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CAPITAL ACCESS FOR MAIN STREET: MEETING 

OPPORTUNITIES OF GROWTH ALONG THE LOWER 

COLUMBIA 

FIELD HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

APRIL 16, 2014 

Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington, Chairwoman 

JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho, Ranking Member 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire 

KAY R. HAGAN, North Carolina 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts 

CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey 

DAVID VITTER, Louisiana 

MARCO RUBIO, Florida 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

TIM SCOTT, South Carolina 

DEB FISCHER, Nebraska 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

JANE CAMPBELL, Democratic Staff Director 

SKIFFINGTON HOLDERNESS, Republican Staff Director 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS

Page 

Cantwell, Hon. Maria, Chairwoman, and a U.S. Senator from Washington ...... 1 

WITNESSES

O’Hara, Amy, Co-Owner, When the Shoe Fits ...................................................... 5 

Tantisook, Jessika, Farm Keeper, Starvation Alley Farms ................................. 10 

Chance, Craig, Senior Vice President, Community Financial Resources, Columbia Bank ......................................................................................................... 16 

Swanson, Gregg, Chief Lending Officer, Evergreen Business Capital ................ 21 

Sawyer, Eric, Vice Chair, Board of Directors, Greater Vancouver Chamber 

of Commerce ......................................................................................................... 26 

Bomar, Mike, President, Columbia River Economic Development Council ........ 32 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Bomar, Mike 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 32 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 34 

Campbell, K. Perry, Ph.D. 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 52 

Cantwell, Hon. Maria 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1 

Chance, Craig 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 16 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 19 

Flakus, Greg 

Letter dated April 16, 2014, to Chairwoman Cantwell ................................. 55 

Marteeny, Louis 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 50 

O’Hara, Amy 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 7 

Sawyer, Eric 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 26 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 28 

Swanson, Gregg 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 21 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 23 

Tantisook, Jessika 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 10 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 12 

(1) 

CAPITAL ACCESS FOR MAIN 

STREET: MEETING OPPORTUNITIES 

OF GROWTH ALONG THE LOWER COLUMBIA 

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 16, 2014 

UNITED STATES SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP, 

Vancouver, WA. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:35 a.m., in the 

Council Chamber, Vancouver City Hall, Hon. Maria Cantwell, 

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senator Cantwell (presiding). 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL, 

CHAIRWOMAN, AND A U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. The Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship Committee hearing in Vancouver, Washington, will 

come to order. Thank you all for being here. 

I want to take this opportunity, since we are here locally, to mention a few people that have been here this morning. The mayor of 

Vancouver was here but had to leave, and so we appreciate him allowing us to be here in the chambers; Representative Paul Harris 

of the 17th District; Representative Dean Takko of the 19th District; Vancouver City Council members Larry Smith, Bill Turlay, 

and Anne Ogle; the mayor of Ridgefield, Ron Onslow, is here; the 

Port of Vancouver Commissioner, Nancy Baker; the President of 

Clark College, Bob Knight; and several representatives of WSU 

Vancouver. 

So if I missed you and you think I should have shouted out your 

name, give a note to the staff and we will make mention of it here. 

I want to thank the Small Business Committee staff for being here 

and coming to Vancouver, Washington. 

We are here today to talk about Capital Access For Main Street: 

Meeting Opportunities of Growth Along The Lower Columbia. I 

want to welcome the witnesses here today and thank them for their 

involvement in helping us have this discussion this morning about 

access to capital and all the important issues related to that. 

I want to thank—with us today is Nancy Porzio, who is the 

Small Business Acting Administrator for this region and came 

down from Seattle. 

So, Nancy, will you stand up? 

Nancy is a resource for our state in the Small Business Administration. I told her she’d better have her phone number ready. So 
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if anybody here wants to talk about access to capital in this part 

of our state on an ongoing basis, Nancy is a good person to know. 

This hearing is part of a two-week listening tour around Washington on small business issues. We are having a second hearing 

in Seattle on innovation. We’re having a listening session in Spokane on exports with the ranking member of the committee, Senator Risch from Idaho. And the minority staff director is here with 

us today. 

We are having meetings in Seattle with the SBA administrator, 

who just was recently appointed by President Obama, Maria 

Contreras-Sweet, who will be holding meetings to discuss access to 

capital, innovation, and minority lending. Ms. Contreras-Sweet previously ran a community bank in California and focused on access 

to capital to minority communities—a great success there. So we’re 

really looking forward to her input. 

In addition, she and I and other members of our delegation will 

be traveling to Arlington to meet with small businesses impacted 

by the tragic Oso-Darrington mudslide and what we need to do to 

help. People may not realize it, but SBA deals with disaster relief 

support and small business lending. So we’re going to be discussing 

the 530 corridor in our state and what we need to do. 

So it’s going to be a busy two weeks. But we’re so happy to start 

this off in Vancouver, Washington, and have one of the two official 

field hearings we’re having during that two-week period right here 

in Vancouver. 

So today, we’re here to talk about a new report that is simultaneously being released by the committee, which shows the successes and challenges of creating capital in Southwest Washington. 

Specifically, the report shows that our region, Southwest Washington, may not be getting all the access to capital that helps small 

businesses grow, and we certainly know that 75 percent of job 

growth in America happens—new creation happens with small 

businesses. So we certainly want to see what we can do to improve 

the situation here. 

The Portland SBA District, which includes Oregon and Southwest Washington, is the only market on the West Coast where approved loan numbers are still down from six years ago. We all 

know what happened with the big downturn. So even though we’re 

seeing more dollars moving out the door, the report details how 

Clark and Cowlitz Counties decreased—Clark by 16.2 percent, 

Cowlitz by 33.3 percent—from 2009 to 2014. Other regions are seeing an increase in both the number of loans that they are doing 

and the amount of capital. 

So our questions are—when we were hit with the economic downturn, obviously, Southwest Washington was one of the hardest hit 

communities. At its height, Clark County had an unemployment 

rate of 15.9 percent and home prices doubled—I’m sorry—dropped 

a total of 23.7 percent in only three years. And, obviously, the credit markets used by mainstream businesses froze up. In fact, even 

worse, some performing lines of credit were pulled right out from 

under small businesses. 

So today, we are going to hear from small business owners to discuss their perspective on the economy, access to capital, and what 

the challenges are to creating jobs right here. Now, we know here 
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in the Pacific Northwest about innovation, about a 21st century 

economy, about boot strapping and moving forward, and the Vancouver-Portland area is a major national hub for innovation. The 

Portland metro area is one the top 15 areas in the country for attracting young college-educated people. So we want to make sure, 

just like previous businesses, that these individuals have access to 

capital. 

I’m confident that the next great company is being dreamed up 

right now in a Vancouver or Longview garage, and it’s just about 

whether they’re going to get access to capital. We need to make 

sure that they have the seeds for that growth. 

Just look at Columbia Sportswear. Forty years ago, the family 

sportswear business was facing financial trouble. So they got a loan 

from the Small Business Administration to increase production capacity, and the company grew. Since the loan, Columbia Sportswear has grown from 40 employees to more than 3,000, and today 

it generates $1 billion in revenue. 

We want to see more small businesses today like Columbia 

Sportswear was, small businesses that with a little bit of good investment, grow huge dividends in job growth. Today, we’re going 

to hear from two of those individuals. Amy O’Hara, with her husband, Alan, own When the Shoe Fits shoe stores. 

When the Shoe Fits is a full-service men and women’s shoe store. 

The staff works with customers to modify footwear in order to help 

alleviate discomfort and solve unique foot problems. They received 

a 7(a) loan to expand their business, and from the first store they 

opened a decade ago to four stores today, this has been a great success story right here, the 7(a) program. So we want to thank her 

for her testimony. 

And Jessika Tantisook and her business partner, Jared Oakes, 

started Starvation Alley Social Purpose Company in 2013 to sell organic cranberry juice that is made in-house using a hydraulic juice 

press. Their cranberry bog is the only Washington Department of 

Agriculture certified organic cranberry bog in the state. So they 

raised capital in two ways, crowd funding, which allowed them to 

raise $12,000 through 110 different individuals online, and they 

also received $100,000 through Craft3, a community development 

financial institution, which allowed them to use financing for the 

operating equipment and expenses. 

So I know that there are many more innovative stories here in 

Vancouver. But what we’re going to discuss today with the rest of 

the panel, our lenders, are why we haven’t seen strong SBA numbers here in Clark and Cowlitz Counties, and what the obstacles 

are that we need to address to help the 7(a) program and the 504 

program help more successful small businesses in Southwest Washington. 

Most people may not even realize that these programs exist. But 

the 7(a) program offers a variable interest rate loan over 10 years 

backed by the SBA at zero cost to the taxpayers and can be used 

to renovate a building and provide working capital or purchase inventory. 

As one bank said to us, quote, ‘‘The 7(a) allows us to finance 

long-term assets with long-term loans, which then gives the borrower monthly payments at the time the lender has reduced its 
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risk and yet guarantee the process. It’s a win-win situation. This’’— 

as they continue to say—‘‘simple fact is that this program allows 

us to do loans we wouldn’t otherwise do,’’ end quote. 

So the 504 program is similar. It provides long-term—up to 20 

years—fixed rate financing for capital assets, such as land and real 

estate and equipment. And the 504 loan is done primarily in partnership with traditional lenders and nonprofit community development corporations. So we need to make sure that they are operating efficiently and effectively, and we are certainly moving legislation to reauthorize the 504 refinancing subprogram at the federal 

level. 

We know that the success of all business depends on access to 

capital. If small businesses have the access to capital they need, 

they will hire new workers. They will continue to grow economic 

opportunity. 

But, according to the latest Wells Fargo/Gallup Small Business 

Index, 65 percent of small business owners across America say 

their cash flow was good in the second quarter of 2007, compared 

to only 48 percent today in the second quarter of 2013. So, overall, 

across America, people still haven’t seen the level of access to capital that we want to see. We want that to be very good. Good is 

not enough. We want to see very good, and that is because so many 

opportunities are here before us with small business. 

So while I could go on about the various aspects of these programs, I just want to again thank our witnesses, the Greater Vancouver Chamber, the Columbia Economic Development Council, 

and others who are going to discuss the challenges that they face. 

Maybe we’ll find here that some of these issues are in the size and 

challenges of how the 7(a) program works within a smaller geographic region or institutions that may not have all the resources 

to dedicate people to the 7(a) program. 

That’s why our team is here from Washington, D.C., so we can 

take this information back to the United States Senate, because my 

guess is that Vancouver is probably not unlike other areas of the 

country. If we’re being challenged because of the size of institutions 

here, or that maybe some of these programs, like the ones that 

were used by our two businesses, aren’t as accessible here, that 

will help us provide answers to the rest of the country as well. 

So, again, I want to thank our witnesses for being here today and 

for their testimony. This field hearing is an official field hearing, 

which means the record stays open for two weeks. My colleagues 

will listen to this. People can send in testimony for the record, and 

that will be for two weeks post the time of this hearing. 

So we’ll start with our individuals today. As I said, we’re going 

to hear from Amy O’Hara, who is the Co-Owner of When the Shoe 

Fits. We’re going to hear from Jessika Tantisook, who is Farm 

Keeper from Starvation Alley Farms; Mr. Craig Chance, Senior 

Vice President of Community Financial Resources at Columbia 

Bank; Gregg Swanson, Chief Lending Officer at Evergreen Business Capital; Eric Sawyer, Vice President, Board of Directors, 

Greater Vancouver Chamber; and Mike Bomar, President, Columbia River Economic Development Council. 

Welcome to you all. Thank you for being here today, and we look 

forward to your testimony. 
5 

We’re going to start with you, Amy. 

STATEMENT OF AMY O’HARA, CO-OWNER, WHEN THE SHOE 

FITS 

Ms. O’HARA. First, I just thank you for the invitation to be here. 

It’s truly a privilege. As you said, we own a four-store chain of comfort shoe stores, my husband and I. Just to give you a bit of our 

background —— 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Amy, can you just move that microphone a little closer to you? I just want to be sure we catch all of 

your testimony. 

Ms. O’HARA. I tend to be very loud all the time. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Thank you. 

Ms. O’HARA. To give you a bit of our background, we’ve worked 

in various aspects of the footwear industry for our entire adult 

lives. Between the two of us, we have experience in retail sales, 

buying, merchandising, manufacturing, and advertising. 

But about 12 years ago, we began the process of trying to realize 

our dream of owning our own retail shoe store. We knew we had 

the ability, the drive, and the energy, and we also knew this market area was greatly underserved. Our major roadblock, however, 

was that we had no money. We had perfect credit and fantastic resumes, but no money. 

We didn’t have any idea of where to turn, and we were lucky 

enough to have someone suggest that we contact SCORE, which is 

an organization we had previously never heard of. SCORE was 

nothing short of a miracle for us. They listened to our concept, 

talked us through potential pitfalls, and challenged us at every 

turn. They then helped us build a business plan, something we 

were unfamiliar with, and they helped us get a bank proposal together. And probably most importantly, they were the ones that informed us about the SBA lending program. 

So we presented to our first bank, and we chose them because 

they were known to be aggressively lending, commercially, in this 

area. But they turned us down. I think we were the only ones they 

turned down that year. And to tell you the truth, we lost count of 

how many banks turned us down after that. 

What we grew to learn was that there’s pretty much an unwritten rule that banks want their loans to be 100 percent 

collateralized. As a retailer, our largest expense is inventory, and 

the valuation of that asset is pennies on the dollar in the eyes of 

a bank. That was really frustrating. If we had the money to 100 

percent collateralize the loan, we wouldn’t need the loan. We also 

knew that we couldn’t go into this undercapitalized, because that 

was a recipe for disaster. 

So, finally, a banker, after rejecting our loan, of course, was willing to advise us off the record that if we were to go ahead take out 

a home equity loan for as much as we could, we’d be bringing cash 

to the table instead of a home, and it would be much more appealing to a bank. So we did that, and that was the magic move, because the next bank we went to was willing to take a chance on 

us and give us our first SBA loan. 
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We opened our first store in 2004, and it was nearly an instant 

success. We opened our second store three years later, in 2007, but 

for that, we were able to secure a conventional loan. It was early 

in 2007. Shortly thereafter, we all know what happened. The recession took a firm grip. While we certainly took a hit in sales and, 

obviously, profit, we, as a couple, dug deep, worked smarter, did 

more with less, and we continued to remain profitable and thrive. 

By 2010, we not only felt confident in our ability to withstand 

the recession, but we realized it was a great time to expand because the leasing terms here were so favorable. So in 2011, we 

opened our third store in Vancouver. By then, however, lending 

was unbearably tight if not impossible. Despite a great relationship 

with our bank and excellent financials that everybody loved, we 

were told our only option would be again to go to SBA. But we believed in ourselves, so we did. 

In early 2013, we decided to expand into the Portland market. 

Our profitability was at an all-time high. We had a flawless reputation with our bank, and our credit was perfect. But we were again 

told that it would have to be SBA backed. It was the inventory 

valuation equation again. That was stunning to us. I remember 

saying to my husband that if we have to go SBA, how does anyone 

get a loan for anything? 

It truly helped me respect the value of good timing. I am not 

sure in today’s climate that we could have navigated this loan environment. Without access to small business lending, we would not 

have been able to do any of this. We now proudly employ nearly 

two dozen people. We provide them with health insurance, disability benefits, vacation pay, a 401K plan, and, most importantly, 

we think, a good work environment and a living wage. 

We believe we are a true asset to the community. We want businesses like Shoe Fits to open and we want them to work. But my 

concern is how do the next Amy and Alan get the bit of help they 

need? 

In conclusion, let me tell you that we are grateful. 

In my opinion, we are literally the epitome of the American 

dream realized. And without the SBA and SCORE, it wouldn’t have 

been possible. So thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. O’Hara follows:] 
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Chairwoman CANTWELL. Thank you. We’ll have questions for 

you, but we’re going to let everybody on the panel give their testimony. 

STATEMENT OF JESSIKA TANTISOOK, FARM KEEPER, 

STARVATION ALLEY FARMS 

Ms. TANTISOOK. Hi. My name is Jessika Tantisook, and I’m the 

co-owner and founder of Starvation Alley Social Purpose Corporation. It’s a cranberry company located in Pacific County on the 

Long Beach Peninsula in Washington state. We make local and organic cranberry juice that is unsweetened and undiluted and, in 

my opinion, very delicious. 

Before I started this juice company, I was a cranberry farmer. 

But being foodies and interested in the agriculture system, my 

partner, Jared Oakes, and I moved back to Washington state four 

years ago to see if we could be the first organic cranberry farm and 

have the 1,700 acres that are here to become certified organic. 

What we found was that growing cranberries organically is possible. However, it was a lot more difficult than we originally 

thought. One of those reasons was finding financing for our risky 

farm venture. 

As a farm, we talked to our local bank and Farm Credit Services 

about funds to help support us in this organic transition process, 

which takes about three years. They turned us away, saying our 

business model wasn’t proven and we were already over-leveraged 

and that the working capital needs we had could not easily be 

collateralized through traditional banking methods. 

With growing trends nationally in organic and healthy food options, this didn’t seem like a complicated idea, especially in the 

Northwest, where everybody loves organic foods. We’ll grow cranberries organically, we thought, we’ll make quality products, and 

we’ll sell them in our region, which isn’t an option that consumers 

here have, because most of our cranberries get sent elsewhere, and, 

again, there’s no organic options. 

So we funded our first two and a half years of our business 

through our family’s fishing business, working multiple jobs, and 

through personal debt. We realize that without these support options, our company wouldn’t be here today. We also know that for 

many farmers and business owners, in general, who would like to 

make environmentally and socially conscious business decisions, 

these options aren’t always available to them. 

Last year, we started Starvation Alley SPC, which is named after 

the road where our farm is located, and we wanted that company 

to become the company that we wished existed when we started 

farming, one that would pay farmers what their fruit was really 

worth, which is significantly above commodity pricing, a price that 

would support them growing in more sustainable ways. Starvation 

Alley SPC would be an independent juice company, one that was 

not burdened by the debt of a family farm, but could become a dependable customer for our farm and those of our neighbors looking 

for new ways to grow cranberries and their livelihoods. 

So we finally got our first loan last February. It was through a 

new company out of Seattle called Community Sourced Capital. 

Community Sourced Capital helps hundreds of people compile 
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small loans into one loan for a business, and they make the repayment of that loan easy and manageable. We benefited from one of 

these loans, thanks to 110 people in our network. We were able to 

purchase a $12,000 juice press. Since then, we’ve repaid about a 

fifth of that loan to our 110 lenders. 

With the new juicer as our core piece of equipment, we were in 

a position to grow. We sold our juice to some of the—or we still sell 

some of our juice to the top restaurants in Seattle, and we began 

to start selling in farmers markets. To develop these markets and 

obtain the inventory we needed, we still needed a much bigger 

piece of financing. 

We heard about Craft3, a Southwest Washington Community Development Finance Institution, through a friend and found that we 

were a clear fit with an aligned mission. Craft3 prioritized our community and values alongside our business plan and profitability, 

and after much due diligence, we received our first substantial loan 

of $100,000 last October. 

Craft3’s willingness to provide needed capital to our early stage 

business, when few others could or would, gave us the monies we 

needed to scale in Seattle and expand to Portland. This meant 

keeping our jobs, hiring three new employees, and being able to 

support two sustainable farms in Southwest Washington last year 

through purchasing their cranberries. 

Starvation Alley isn’t quite out of the red and needs more outside 

investment. We are exploring all options, including taking advantage of federal grant opportunities, such as the Value Added Producer Grant funds, which will announce award recipients in June. 

So wish us luck. We are in talks with Craft3 for a second round 

of funds, because we still don’t qualify for traditional financing. 

Last month, we talked to other local banks and another CDFI 

loan which had mentioned SBA options to us. We believe this is because we don’t meet the criteria, but also feel that there is an education piece missing for small businesses. We’re not sure what the 

SBA offerings are and whether it’s something that we should be 

asking about or if it’s something lenders should offer. 

What we do know is that the reason our business has been successful is because of the willingness of progressive financial institutions like Community Sourced Capital and Craft3 to evaluate business on more than just financial returns. They are measuring other 

forms of impact that our business has on our community. From my 

perspective, government shouldn’t be measuring risk on solely the 

bottom line but on community value as well. 

My hope and dream is that as many new financial innovations 

emerge—and we’re seeing them emerge already—more programs, 

including federal programs like SBA, will find a ways to create 

money available to more risky businesses like outstanding corporations who want triple bottom line values in their work. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Tantisook follows:] 
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Chairwoman CANTWELL. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Chance, welcome. Thank you for being here. 

STATEMENT OF CRAIG CHANCE, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, 

COMMUNITY FINANCIAL RESOURCES, COLUMBIA BANK 

Mr. CHANCE. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for the opportunity 

to share our thoughts. It’s always hard to top small business stories. Like so many other banks, those of us who are lenders and 

advisors thought this is one of our jobs, being in business like yourselves. 

Just for the record, my name is Craig Chance, Senior Vice President, Columbia State Bank, also known as Columbia Bank. I’ve 

been with the bank, managing the unit called Community Financial Resources, since 1998. We assist other lenders in our organization, branch managers, with SBA lending, but also in finding other 

solutions such as Craft3, or referring out to organizations like 

SCORE, SBEC, and others. Those are all great organizations, and 

we should all do what we can to expand upon them. 

My engagement with SBA lending began in 1987, when the now 

Senator Cantwell was a very young legislator in the state of Washington and helped create a program called Community Development Finance. We went out into banks and other lending organizations and talked to them about SBA lending and other programs. 

So, in a way, it created many jobs, but in a small way, it helped 

create my career, so thank you. 

Columbia Bank is a 20-year-old bank headquartered in Tacoma. 

It’s grown quite a bit in the last few years through five FDIC assisted transactions, and also recently by the merger with West 

Coast Bank. So we’re a relatively large community bank. We have 

approximately 140 branches, 80 in the state of Washington, 60 in 

the state of Oregon, and we’re about $7.2 billion in asset size. Our 

bank’s CEO, Melanie Dressel, is particularly proud of the fact that 

in 2013, we had $800 million in new loan originations, not renewables but actual originations. 

SBA lending is a part of it. We had in fiscal year 2013 $29 million in SBA 7(a) lending, and we’re also very happy with the 504 

program. We did approximately $19 million in third-party lender 

loans under the 504 program. 

We have a unit of nine people in Community Financial Resources. Most of those individuals focus on SBA lending. Five of 

them—some, I think, are here today—are based right here in Vancouver. So we have quite a crew here in Vancouver focused on SBA 

lending. 

With these opportunities, I always like to mention that we very 

much appreciate our relationship with the SBA staff, the district 

staff, the region staff, the central office staff. In all cases, we find 

them to be helpful and very professional, and they make it much 

easier for us to do our jobs. We welcome opportunities to work with 

the SBA in getting the word out, because you’re absolutely correct 

that not a lot of people even know these programs exist. So we’re 

happy to help them market that or work with their other lenders. 

One of the more fascinating facts of life is that so many small 

business owners, even multi-generation business owners, think the 

SBA program is the, quote, ‘‘lender of last resort.’’ And the reality 
17 

is it’s a way that gives small businesses an opportunity to have financing on terms that are very similar to those terms that are enjoyed by their much larger international competitors that have direct access to Wall Street. 

So I often go to meetings and tell people, ‘‘Maybe there’s a conventional option, but it’s not the most reasonable option. The most 

reasonable option to give your business some strength is the SBA 

option.’’ And we always emphasize to people—are there fees with 

this? Yes, there are. This is not a handout. Senator, you mentioned 

it. This is a zero subsidy program. The lenders and the borrowers 

in small businesses are paying for this program. 

We use SBA financing for a broad spectrum of needs. The 7(a) 

program is the workhorse that can do almost anything that you can 

think of legitimately, and it provides that long-term, fully amortizing financing, one of the more unique attributes of this term, 

working capital. There’s really no other way you could set up a 10- 

year working capital loan. 

But it also affords us the opportunity to provide people with longterm, fully amortizing real estate loans, business acquisition loans. 

Coming out of the recession, there’s a lot of firms with financing 

that’s reasonable, maybe, at one point, but it’s not very reasonable, 

given the current circumstances, and we can restructure it with far 

more reasonable terms and strengthen the business that way. 

Here in Clark County, we just had a couple of examples of firms 

that were assisted with SBA lending, often an interesting story. 

One is a retail store, and she started her business with a package 

of services, including a State of Washington Employment Security 

Program that enabled her to retain her unemployment benefits 

while she launched her business. She’s been doing quite well. 

Another woman was able to expand a styling salon and it helped 

her establish her financial independence. And an environmental 

contamination remediation firm benefitted by restructuring debt as 

it emerged from the recession, giving an example of how businesses 

can get more favorable terms. 

We recognize that Southwest Washington has had its unfair 

share of challenges, and it truly does go back to the ’80s and the 

collapse or at least shrinking of many of the resource-based industries in this area. And then the more recent recession had its impact, especially on construction in this area, and then the multiplier effect on other industries. 

But you can certainly see signs of improvement. If you step outside the building here, you see all the renewal going on in downtown Vancouver. People haven’t visited downtown Vancouver in a 

while, but they’ve been taken aback at what they’re seeing out 

there. So you see those opportunities. That’s one reason why we 

have SBA lending staff in Vancouver, why we have a retail branch 

and we have a dedicated commercial banking team based here in 

Vancouver. 

When I meet with prospective 7(a) lenders—as one of my partners at Evergreen, Gregg—and I think Phil before he went into his 

current position as President Emeritus—described us as the evangelical SBA lenders. So we enjoy meeting with potential new SBA 

lenders. And the objections I commonly hear are perceived com-
18 

plexity and uncertainty regarding guaranty purchases when loans 

default. 

There’s a monthly reporting process that goes to the SBA for 7(a) 

lending, the monthly 1502 report, and that’s perceived as sometimes a little cumbersome. We have examples where we were ending off on a report, and we had to send a wire for that one penny 

or face a $100 fine. For smaller SBA lenders that would seem like 

a major burden. 

And then there’s the process of submitting applications. We’re 

what SBA calls a delegated lender. We have the authority to approve SBA guarantees, but people starting out new in this, lenders 

starting out new, don’t have that authority. So they have to submit 

these packages to the guarantee processing center in Citrus 

Heights, California. These packages can be several inches thick, 

and they can border on a book. They all have to be scanned, and 

it’s very burdensome. I have visited a little bit with the district office, not going to the central office, but that’s a logical next step 

after today. 

There used to be a program called the Certified Lender Program 

for lenders who show a little experience with this, and it simplified 

the process. And where I would like to see that program go internally—in all institutions when we approve a loan, we don’t send 8- 

inch think packages around to each other. It’s a credit memorandum that provides a detailed summary of the proposal. It may 

include a few forms, and it may include financial spreads. 

But it’s very simple. It’s maybe 20 or 30 pages. How much easier 

that would be to scan that into the system. How much labor that 

would save the SBA in Citrus Heights, and it would vastly improve 

turnaround time in Citrus Heights at their busiest times for the 

small business owners, which is the principal advantage. 

We look forward to working with SBA on all those improvements 

and all other ideas that folks have. And we certainly appreciate, 

Senator Cantwell, your advocacy and support of the Small Business 

Administration programs. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Chance follows:] 
19 
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21 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Thank you very much for your testimony. 

We’ll hear now from Mr. Swanson. 

STATEMENT OF GREGG SWANSON, CHIEF LENDING OFFICER, 

EVERGREEN BUSINESS CAPITAL 

Mr. SWANSON. Thank you. I have a reputation for talking a lot, 

so I’m trying to get this down, and I’m going to be watching very 

closely. As stated, my name is Gregg Swanson, and I work for Evergreen Business Capital. We were founded 34 years ago and are 

the largest CDC in the Northwest. CDCs are nonprofit organizations authorized by the SBA to underwrite and service 504 loans. 

By utilizing the SBA 504 loan program, Evergreen has helped 

small businesses create more than 37,000 jobs and make more than 

$2 billion in capital improvements. We have advanced small business development by providing loans totaling upward of $800 million in the Northwest. 

The types of businesses that we have helped, particularly here in 

Southwest Washington, range from manufacturers to retailers to 

medical providers. We also end up helping a lot of the hard to finance industries, like hotels, construction contractors, and restaurants. Evergreen Business Capital has helped to create or retain over 3,000 jobs just in the Southwest Washington area since 

our inception. 

I’ll give you an example of one of the small businesses that we 

have been able to help using the SBA 504 loan program. It’s located not far from where we are today in downtown Vancouver. 

This particular business provides IT solutions to other small businesses in the area, and with the help of the 504 program, that 

small business owner was able to secure a mortgage payment that 

was actually less than their current rent payment, and they were 

able to move into a larger space, which allowed the creation of 40 

jobs. These are the types of success stories we see created by the 

program every day. 

Our clients typically find the SBA 504 product to be advantageous because of the smaller down payment this loan program 

provides. For many small businesses still recovering from the great 

recession, the importance of being able to get a loan while only putting 10 percent cash down, whereby allowing the small business to 

preserve their working capital, cannot be understated. 

Many businesses exhausted all their working capital during the 

great recession and simply could not take advantage of growing 

their small business during this slow recovery unless they had the 

SBA 504 loan program. Currently, under the 504 program, not all 

businesses do qualify for the low 10 percent down payment option. 

It’s our opinion that the SBA should consider this 10 percent down 

payment option for all businesses regardless of the type of property 

that they’re purchasing or the experience of the owner-operators. 

The SBA would also help many small businesses that have found 

it hard to recover from the great recession if they would reinstate 

the 504 refinance program. Furthermore, reinstating the 504 refinance program with a simpler set of rules would also prove advantageous toward helping more businesses. 
22 

During the short time period that refinance was available with 

this program, Evergreen was able to provide more than 45 borrowers with their refinance projects. We financed a total of $44 million in SBA loans, with 28 new jobs created and 1,000 jobs retained 

as a result of the refinance. 

In recent years, the SBA has made great strides in advancing 

their technology platform for applications. New rules have also just 

been implemented in an attempt to streamline and simplify the 

504 product. In order to reach more small businesses, the SBA will 

need to continue both these initiatives in order to make the 504 

product easier and less time consuming for small business owners. 

The SBA has many hurdles to jump to meet all of their regulatory requirements, but they also need to keep in mind that their 

end users, the small business owners, need care, customer service, 

and simple courtesy when dealing with the maze of ever-changing 

rules. This is what Evergreen tries to provide, and as with all 

CDCs, we have boots on the ground and understand the different 

environments that our small business owners work in, but the SBA 

must also work towards making themselves a user-friendly environment as well and keeping capital safe and secure for the taxpayers and its investors. We believe it is possible to do both. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Swanson follows:] 
23 
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26 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Thank you very much. That was concise. I don’t think Jane had to flag you once. 

Mr. Sawyer. 

STATEMENT OF ERIC SAWYER, VICE CHAIR, BOARD OF 

DIRECTORS, GREATER VANCOUVER CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 

Mr. SAWYER. I’ll try to make that two in a row if I can. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. It’s okay. We’re going to get into a discussion here. But usually we’re balancing between 20 colleagues 

who all want to ask their questions. Luckily, you just have to have 

questions from me today. 

Mr. SAWYER. So I just can really talk. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Yes. 

Mr. SAWYER. Welcome to Vancouver. I’m Eric Sawyer, the Chair 

Elect for the Greater Vancouver Chamber of Commerce and a local 

business leader as well. I wish to thank Chairman Cantwell and 

members of the committee for holding your field hearing today here 

in Vancouver. It’s a tremendous opportunity to be able to share 

some different stories with you and some insight. 

When I’m not representing the GVCC, I am an Area Manager for 

a company headquartered here in Vancouver called BBSI. BBSI’s 

purpose is to advocate for small business owners. We work hand 

in hand with the very same businesses that the Chamber puts me 

in front of, the small business owner, the entrepreneur. In both 

roles, I have the honor of seeing firsthand what business owners 

experience every day. 

Working with over 3,000 small companies at BBSI, we know that 

every entrepreneur who starts their business has three unique 

qualities that they all share. I think Amy and Jessika can back me 

up on this. They’re the last person to get paid, they can’t quit, and 

they have literally everything they own invested in their dream 

and their passion. Correct? That’s probably right. 

So that sounds like a good deal. I can’t quit, I’m the last to get 

paid, and I’ve got everything invested. Right? Awesome. Sign me 

up. But that’s the opportunity, and that’s exactly what we’re talking about here. 

The Greater Vancouver Chamber of Commerce represents 1,000 

businesses in Southwest Washington, which includes about 45,000 

employees. And you ask how are we doing now? Does the small 

business owner have access to capital? Well, yes, and then maybe 

no. 

Banks are advertising opportunities now, and we’ve heard the 

credit market for small business is opening up. They’re requiring 

excellent credit, proof of performance, well documented financials, 

business plans, and marketing strategies. Small and/or new businesses find it difficult to get loans. Business owners are willing to 

do that work if it means access to credit. 

But, as an entrepreneur, again, you put everything you have into 

the game, and that oftentimes puts your personal credit at risk, regardless of current business stability and performance. Then when 

your business is thriving and you need capital to support it or expand it, you get turned down by the banks because your personal 

credit isn’t strong enough. 
27 

We have a client who started their company three years ago, and 

they’re actually going to be—they’re nominated for a Rising Star 

Award by the SBA. Their first year revenues were a little under 

$12,000. Their second year revenues were a little over $200,000. 

Their third year revenues were over $700,000. Clearly, they know 

how to run a business. They’re growing. They’re creating jobs in 

the area. But because they put everything they had into that business, their personal credit was really stretched thin. So when they 

went back to look at expansion, they couldn’t get it. 

The moral of that story is: Why does personal credit play such 

a huge role in that situation? This particular business owner is 

banging his head on his desk, saying, ‘‘I am clearly demonstrating 

an ability to run a business. I am clearly showing you I know what 

I’m doing. I’ve got the performance and the growth to show it, and 

I’m creating jobs. But because my personal credit score is low, I’m 

going to get turned down.’’ It’s one of those things that just kind 

of doesn’t make a lot of sense. 

So summing up my two points there, just quickly, better capital 

access education for the business owner is critical, and then lending guidelines that are maybe a little bit more practical. I don’t 

know if that’s just a generic term to throw in there. But, again, 

why does the personal credit score play such a huge role in that? 

But we are grateful for the help of business advocates such as 

the Small Business Administration through its SCORE program, 

SBDC, and the SBA office as well. And one of the things I did hear 

consistently when talking to clients who have utilized SBA services 

is that the Portland office is a tremendous resource, that the staff 

there is excellent, and that they get a tremendous amount of support, and they really feel that they’re on their side as the small 

business owner. So that was great to hear. 

Here in Vancouver, however, we tend to feel a bit removed between Portland and Seattle. We are served by our Portland, Oregon 

office, the SBA office. And we appreciate the outreach they’ve done 

to connect with our small businesses. But our business owners 

have a hard time getting out of their offices to drive to Portland 

for workshops and meetings and ongoing education. 

At the Chamber, we’d like to help facilitate that connection. We 

invite the SBA to hold field office hours here in Vancouver at the 

Chamber offices once a month. We’ll work with the SBA to set 

times and set different scenarios. But we’ve got the meeting space, 

and we’ve got the office space to be able to coordinate and set something up like that. So we’d like to initiate that. 

Our business at the Chamber needs to be one stop shopping for 

the business owner. That’s why we’re creating a small business resource center for businesses at the Chamber. 

Wrapping it up real quickly, we see tremendous opportunity for 

the SBA, first, in helping small businesses more successfully access 

the credit market through education and guidance. And, second, 

when the SBA plays the role of lender, we would urge them to review each business’ financials with consideration for what we established at the beginning of my little speech here, that the entrepreneur is the last person to get paid. Right? They can’t quit. 

They’ve got everything on the line. And, oh, by the way, they’re 

kind of the backbone of our economy. 
28 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Sawyer follows:] 
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30 
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32 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Thank you, Eric. 

Last, but certainly not least, Mr. Bomar. 

STATEMENT OF MIKE BOMAR, PRESIDENT, COLUMBIA RIVER 

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL 

Mr. BOMAR. Good morning, Senator, and welcome. Thank you 

again to you and your staff for being here today in Vancouver. I 

also want to thank the entire Senate Committee on Small Business 

and Entrepreneurship for their work and dedication to assisting 

small businesses and the opportunity to provide testimony on behalf of CREDC and the business community. 

I’m currently the President of CREDC. I serve on a number of 

professional and nonprofit organizational boards, including Greater 

Portland, Inc.; the Southwest Washington Workforce Development 

Council; Clark County Skills Center Advisory Board; and the WSU 

Vancouver Alumni Advisory Board. 

Serving Clark County since 1982, the CREDC is a private-public 

partnership of about 140 investors and strategic partners working 

together to advance the economic vitality of Clark County through 

business growth and innovation. Through collaborative leadership, 

the CREDC promotes quality jobs and capital investment while 

maintaining the county’s exceptionally high quality of life. 

Access to capital is a key component of attracting and growing 

businesses in Clark County. As a resource for local businesses of 

all sizes, the CREDC works to connect businesses with programs, 

and partners that can help identify the most appropriate funding 

options available to companies based on their makeup, history and 

their growth projections. 

Small business is a driving force in Southwest Washington, and 

startups, in particular, are consistently net job creators nationally. 

According to the Kauffman Foundation, startups gained over 2 million jobs during the recession, compared to 4 million jobs lost by 

more mature companies during that time. 

Since 2009, CREDC has been assisting entrepreneurs in connecting with the resources that they need. Last year, the CREDC 

Entrepreneurial Strategy 2.0 report was completed by Scruggs and 

Associates to better guide these efforts. As noted in the report, the 

vast majority of net job creation comes from startups in the first 

few years of growth, the stage two companies, and highly scalable 

companies as well. Those that are homegrown tend to grow faster 

than those that are nonresident companies recruited from elsewhere. 

CREDC’s entrepreneurial program focuses on scalable, or highimpact companies that have strong growth potential. Often these 

companies export goods or services and have revenue potential of 

at least $10 million to $20 million. A large portion of these companies are in the high-tech sector, which accounts for roughly 5 percent of companies, but more than half of all new jobs created. 

To expand on that, high-tech and innovation-based companies 

are a focus area at CREDC, yet often experience the greatest challenge in earning access to capital. Scalable companies typically 

have greater capital needs and often require some form of intellectual property protection. They also tend to have markets that are 
33 

national or global in scale. As a result, they often require alternate 

funding sources such as angel or venture capital funding. 

Our connection to the Greater Portland metropolitan area provides great opportunities and is especially important to entrepreneurs and startups looking for initial investment from venture 

capital or angel funding sources. But it also poses some challenges 

for businesses looking to grow in this region. 

We are very fortunate to have strong collaboration with partners 

such as the Chamber, SCORE, SBDC, and the Keiretsu Forum. 

The vast majority of dedicated entrepreneurial services in this region are located in Portland. While the entrepreneurial networks 

are strong and available to companies throughout the entire region, 

Clark County businesses can face unique challenges in access to 

the resources that are available. This is true for both startups and 

small businesses looking to expand. 

It’s important that leaders in our area are aggressive in reaching 

out to companies to ensure that business opportunities are not lost 

for lack of connecting to already existing resources. While the 

CREDC’s role is one of connector or business concierge, we continue to work with our strategic partners in the traditional lending 

institutions to develop more expertise around identifying the companies with great potential but potentially low rankings through 

the traditional lending practices of today. 

We encourage the continuation of the SBA’s SBIR, 504, 7(a), and 

similar programs that assist the types of small businesses operating in Southwest Washington. We also encourage maintaining 

and expanding resources to connect local small businesses with the 

information about these and other lending opportunities that they 

need to be able to make use of them. And we continue to support 

existing programs, such as the Small Business Development Centers as well. 

Though the foundation to serve Southwest Washington companies is strong, there’s likely an opportunity for both regional entrepreneurial networks and traditional lending institutions to better 

serve our startup companies. The goal of this effort would be to increase the options and opportunities for Southwest Washington 

startup companies with sound practices, innovative technology, and 

experienced management with the potential to be funded. 

I want to thank you again, and the rest of the Senate Committee 

on Small Business and Entrepreneurship for the opportunity to 

provide input and for your interest in assisting a strong and thriving business environment in Southwest Washington. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Bomar follows:] 
34 
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36 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Well, thank you very much. That was a 

good wrap-up, Mike, and a good segway for us to jump into the 

question segment of this, which is—you know, I think I’ll just start 

with all of you collectively. Several of you have mentioned more 

education, with either the Chamber providing a role, as you’re saying, or maybe a network of entrepreneurs with institutions or more 

education or just—how do we get the word out to various businesses that here is the economic opportunity in Southwest Washington to leverage your business ideas with institutions that may 

not necessarily be ready to financially support you, but with the 

SBA backing are willing to do so. 

Does anybody have—— 

Mr. SAWYER. I’ll jump in real quick as the Chamber representative. I think, naturally, a lot of small businesses look to the Chamber to provide that leadership role in education. And if the Chamber had the opportunity to work a little bit more closely with the 

SBA and create those field office hours at the Chamber, it would 

be relatively easy for the Chamber to get the word out to our members and to the business community, in general, that that opportunity is there. So I think the conversation just needs to happen 

and we need to create that opportunity. That would be one step in 

the right direction. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Anybody else on that point? 

Mr. BOMAR. I think statistically and in perception, funding is 

centered around metro areas, and that tends to be a thriving magnet for a lot of entrepreneurs in the region. One of our goals that 

I see as an opportunity is to really try to capture entrepreneurs before they make the leap into that central area and to really help 

them understand that they don’t have to be in that central core, 

that they can access the same resources in this metro area, 

through enhanced collaboration both across the river and in making sure that the programs and the partners that we have here are 

maximizing those resources at the right stage to be able to capture 

those entrepreneurs before we lose them. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. We have two business people here, and 

they can say whether they were brought to all the Chamber or— 

you know, obviously, you can create a value within the Chamber 

and EDC community that there are ways to help businesses financially so that you can become, if you will, a resource of information 

for businesses. But these two businesses—you immediately started 

going to financial institutions. Right? 

Ms. O’HARA. No. We first did SCORE, and they were the ones 

who helped us do everything. And out of the blue, it was something 

my mother said one day while I was whining. But we didn’t know 

what to do. We didn’t have a business background. We know shoes. 

And she said, ‘‘Oh, you know, what’s the need of that’’—she’d kill 

me if she heard me imitating her like that. 

[Laughter.] 

Which is why I want to emphasize I think SCORE is an unbelievable resource and underappreciated, probably. And I think our 

local chapter did an excellent job of advertising seminars and 

webinars. But I think they are a great avenue to get the word out. 

But that’s what we did. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Jessika. 
37 

Ms. TANTISOOK. I’ll speak just a little bit about Pacific County. 

I mean, we’re not close to a major metropolitan area, and we’re 

about two hours from Vancouver. So we did start with local banks, 

and, like I said, they didn’t walk us through even the process to 

get ready to be eligible for SBA opportunities. 

So I don’t know if there is a piece that is missing between local 

financial institutions and SBA, or if the Chambers can reach out 

to local banks or how that gets out to more rural areas. But I think 

that is often overlooked. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Remind me how you found the Community Development Financial Institution. 

Ms. TANTISOOK. Through a friend—like, ‘‘Oh, you should talk to 

Craft3.’’ 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. So—— 

Ms. TANTISOOK. Sort of word of mouth. It’s usually what gets 

things done in small communities. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. And you were doing—I mean, first of 

all, congratulations on what you achieved with taking your vision 

and turning it into something. You know, our state has something 

like over 300 different agricultural products, and we went almost 

overnight from doing very little with blueberries to becoming one 

of the number one organic blueberry producers in the country. And 

so it was a huge explosion of growth. So now what you’re doing 

with cranberries, I’m sure, will also have a very bright future. 

You mentioned, you know, how to measure these business opportunities on a little different basis. I mean, do you have any ideas 

or suggestions with—we are seeing a lot of investment in food enterprises, and we in the Northwest are doing very well with—you 

know, with all our software and airplanes and everything else, I 

still remind people that our ag economy is the number one employer in our state. 

Ms. TANTISOOK. We spend a lot of money on food, yes. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. We have to eat. 

Ms. TANTISOOK. And we love to eat. I think that’s a great—I 

mean, that’s one reason why we wanted to have our business here, 

because of the thriving food community. And so I have a couple of 

thoughts, I guess. One is we’re a social purpose corporation, and we 

function like a corporation. But we’re able to write in a special mission into our company when we were incorporated. There’s also 

other third-party certifications. 

So is there a way, I guess, that there’s—you need funds that you 

can qualify for if you’re one of these organizations that, you know, 

are out to do more for the community other than just have their 

business housed there, that are working in communities and creating jobs and increasing environmental benefits and things like 

that. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Do you think there’s a Web site anywhere that basically talks about how you become an entity like 

that? 

Ms. TANTISOOK. The Washington Social Purpose Corporation 

Web site is pretty good. It has almost every incorporated SPC on 

there. So I think that could be one way to get information at least 

for those companies. 
38 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. And does that talk about capital on that 

Web site? 

Ms. TANTISOOK. I’m not sure, actually. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. And is that why you think you got the 

crowd funding? 

Ms. TANTISOOK. I went to business school in Seattle at the Bainbridge Graduate Institute, and the startup that we worked with 

were classmates and friends. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. So, again—— 

Ms. TANTISOOK. So our connection to them was also a personal 

connection, and so that’s how we’ve gotten a lot of—what we’ve 

done so far is through our network and telling our story, and our 

story has taken us a long way. And also out of our team of seven 

we have three engaged on our team, and so we have a great business plan and great financial projections. 

And like you were saying, they only take you so far. People—our 

banks are like, ‘‘Oh, these are great. We love them, but we can’t 

lend because of—we need to see two years of operating with a year 

of net positive cash flow,’’ and we don’t have those yet. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. The financiers—any comments on what 

you’re hearing here on how we water this garden of opportunity, 

of innovation, given some of our more traditional focuses on finance? 

Mr. CHANCE. Well, sometimes the classes and seminars are lenders and some of the organizations. We’re guilty of offering them, for 

example, at noon. How many small business owners can break 

away at noon? So we have to be willing to have those in the 

evening or on the weekend when those sessions are more accessible 

to people. 

And I’ll say in looking at startups, at least from my perspective, 

we do some, and it’s very much focused on people’s experience, 

their ability to at least put something into the transaction so it’s 

not 100 percent financed. We talked a little bit about collateral 

here, and that’s the great virtue of SBA lending. There’s so many 

SBA 7(a) loans that are poorly collateralized, and the focus is really 

on either projected or historic cash flow, the experience of the individual, their general business acumen. It’s not so much based on 

collateral, and that’s really what separates the SBA lenders from 

more conventional peers. 

Mr. SWANSON. I’ll just say that probably 90 percent of what our 

loan officers do is try to do outreach to lenders, and it’s going out 

to a lot of small branches throughout the Northwest. We have 10 

loan officers. They’re taking everything from southeastern Oregon 

to northern Idaho. 

So for us, it’s a big educational piece of our mission, and so we’re 

going to small lenders, branch bankers, real estate brokers, anyone 

that we can get the word out to about our program, because we feel 

it still doesn’t really get the—it doesn’t have the financial assets 

as some of the other loan programs. So for us, it’s just a continued 

fight getting it out there, and, clearly, we have a lot more work to 

do to get it out there. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. And it seems like it’s not only the communication. Everybody mentioned the communication. I just wanted to point out that SCORE, which Amy mentioned, is a service 
39 

corps of retired executives, and they provide counseling for early 

stage companies, and they do get support from the SBA. So it is, 

if you will, a network out there in the community, so that seems 

to have benefit to small businesses or entrepreneurs who are looking for those economic opportunities. 

Mr. SWANSON. SBDCs, too. They’re really good out in the communities as well. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. And why do you think that is? 

Mr. SWANSON. They really help small business owners with business plans and kind of how to get through the maze of financing. 

There’s a lot of really good SBDCs throughout the Northwest 

that—again, they can really take a look at an entrepreneur or 

someone that wants to start a business up and tell them very matter of factly, ‘‘This is what you’re going to need to do to find financing.’’ 

And they have a great network, so they can say, ‘‘This is a lender 

that might work for your business’’ or ‘‘This is a place not to go.’’ 

So they can really help them, again, with the business plan writing 

and what-not. The SBA has gotten rather strict on the 504 side 

with projections, business plans, and that sort of thing. 

Whether you’re a startup business or, in your case, an existing 

business that wants to expand to a new location, even if you have 

enough cash flow coming in to open up a new location based on 

your existing, they still want full business plan projections. So 

SBDCs really help with that and provide that technical assistance. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Mr. Chance, you mentioned the simplification of the process—several people mentioned the simplification of the process, some obviously for the process to be a certified 

lender, and then the process, in general, for, I guess, simplifying 

the marketing of benefits. What do you think the SBA has to think 

about in that regard? And I know several people mentioned it, so 

other people can jump in here. 

Mr. CHANCE. Sure. This would be in getting the lenders more engaged as part of the information for the business community. But 

then you also have to have lenders who are willing to be engaged. 

And I would make the argument the more SBA lenders there are, 

the better it is for the marketplace. So that’s the reason I said 

evangelical, because it is helpful to have many banks talking about 

it as a product in the marketplace. 

But the objections usually come in from concern about paperwork, although that has been simplified in most recent SOP. But 

there are still concerns about complexity of the SOP and it’s an ongoing effort to streamline it. 

This certified lender program is a step where—essentially, right 

now, you have guarantee lender programs are sending in the thick 

packages. You have the option for express lending, which is a very 

simple process and probably underutilized here, and then the primary program, at least for us, the preferred lender program, where 

we can go up to that $5 million loan. That would be kind of unusual. Most are smaller than that. 

And we have delegated authority, and part of that is the expertise to do it. A lot of lenders don’t have that expertise, and they 

have to go to Citrus Heights, and that’s the process where, I think, 

that yield is a little larger than the express loan or has some com-
40 

plexity or risk to it and the lender wants a higher guarantee. They 

want the 85 or 75 percent guarantee. If we bring back that certified 

lender program in a meaningful way, that might help encourage at 

least some of the community banks to become more engaged. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Mr. Swanson, do you have comments? 

Mr. SWANSON. Yes. You know, obviously, on the 504 side of 

things, we—there’s more risk to the SBIR loan, so we’re scrutinized 

a little bit more as opposed to how a bank does when we submit 

our package to the SBA. I think, again, in the spirit of talking 

about access to capital, specifically in Southwest Washington, I 

think that the SBA tends to do a one size fits all, you know. 

They’re processing in Citrus Heights, California. They’re processing 

all these loans. 

And I know for us, as a CDC who has 10 loan officers throughout 

the Northwest that are invested in their communities, I think there 

are situations where the SBA is just trying to apply a one size fits 

all, and credit just isn’t that clean. You can’t just say, ‘‘Well, they 

met this requirement, they’ve got this many years to cash flow, 

they’ve got this much leverage’’—you know, your example is a good 

one. 

I think that the SBA could probably work on a partnership with 

the CDCs that are local a little bit better. We’re all kind of trying 

to do the same thing, you know. We want to protect the SBA and 

have the long-term—the investors. And I think that SBA could rely 

a little bit more on local CDCs on the 504 loan. 

What we know about the community—we’re the ones that are 

meeting with the borrowers. We’re seeing the business in operation, and I think that would go a long way to help the process and 

help the basic feeling sometimes out in the marketplace that, 

again, the SBA process is difficult, and it’s all black and white, and 

there’s no room for any gray. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Jessika, you’re shaking your head. 

Ms. TANTISOOK. Just recently, we were talking last month with 

a couple of banks that asked basically—it’s a similar process. You 

have to meet these three-year requirements, and you don’t, and 

you’re not eligible for the loan. So it doesn’t seem like it’s based on 

our unique team or our vested values, on what we’ve done so far 

as a company. It just seems like it’s about checking boxes. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Any thoughts from lenders about that? 

That goes beyond simplification. 

Mr. CHANCE. An old boss of mine used to say we don’t have a 

monopoly on business. There’s probably several thousand banks in 

America. And I hear exactly what Jessika is saying. There’s so 

many who get that reaction. 

As a person who manages SBA lending, one thing that’s one of 

my responsibilities—and things I think about at 3 o’clock in the 

morning—is how we make sure all of our lenders, all of the people 

involved in credit decisions, are aware of the opportunities. And 

like any other industry, there’s a certain amount of turnover. But 

the word—it’s an effort to continually get that word out. 

And different lenders are going to have different approaches to 

it. Some will be very much check the box, saying if you have a credit score of X, you’re good. If it’s one point low, you’re not. Other 

lenders may be more flexible. And for better or for worse, that ends 
41 

up being one of the burdens of the entrepreneur to figure out which 

of these lenders from the many thousand in America are going to 

be a good connection for you, personally, for your type of business 

and for the life cycle of your business. 

I don’t know if there’s a simple answer to that question. But it’s 

like finding the dentist you like, the physician you like. There is 

a certain process to go through and figure out is your institution 

or is that particular institution ideal for you. The one across the 

street is very convenient, but they may not be the one that really 

can help you the best with this type of a program. So it takes a 

little shopping. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Well, one of the reasons why we’re 

doing this tour is because I personally want to see us do something 

besides make exotic financial instruments. I want us to grow small 

businesses. But we have to demystify access to capital and make 

sure we’re increasing access to capital. So you have given us some 

things to think about already as it relates to simplifying and enhancing the communication. 

But I think for us, it’s much less, so—because we’re so innovative. I think it would also behoove us to take the blinders off for 

a second and say, ‘‘What else should we be doing to get more capital out to all of these people in an information age that would create more of these opportunities?’’ 

Again, when you think about how much capital is locked up in 

the five biggest institutions, it’s like 50 percent of the assets in the 

United States are in five big institutions, you know, doing lots of 

activities that I personally think aren’t performed enough, while 

the squeeze on capital for small business is still—you know, you 

might say that we have enough. I personally think one of the 

things the committee is going to do is increase the 7(a) cap to a 

higher level to get more money out there and get the refi 504 program going again. So we’re going to try to get capital out there. 

Our new administrator comes from a background in California 

where they’ve learned that small is big, that is, that sometimes the 

capital was just—a $150,000 threshold was more than people wanted, and that looking at the smaller portfolio helped, you know, a 

thousand flowers bloom and then come back and be able to access 

a bigger program. 

So any thoughts on that, about the loan size or, you know, something where we would be more creative with the program that 

would emphasize smaller amounts of capital to be accessed? Or do 

we think that’s being taken care of somewhere else in the market, 

like the crowd sourcing or personal financing? 

Mr. CHANCE. There are other alternatives, and I think when we 

talk about very small loans, generally, say, 50 and under, there’s 

an awful lot of that that’s taken care of on a conventional basis 

with smaller banks. And where the SBA is helpful is where the 

bank receives greater risk, and I don’t know that the average bank 

would save a lot of risk if this $25,000 loan goes bad. After all, it’s 

the size of a car loan. 

I once heard a major national lender say, ‘‘I wonder if the SBA 

program would work better as a credit card program.’’ And I said, 

‘‘Why would we want to?’’ Well, what would be the public policy 
42 

benefit of it. If you need a credit card, stay by your mailbox, and 

you’ll get that loan. 

So I think we make a much bigger impact on things that credit 

cards can’t do when there aren’t opportunities like home equity 

loans. And, generally speaking, that gets to be a little bit larger, 

and that’s—sometimes we look at numbers of SBA loans opposed 

to dollars, because I think right now, especially as the economy has 

gotten at least a little better and financial investing is stronger, 

there is greater access to those conventional opportunities for the 

under 50. 

You might have situations like the crowd funding and micro 

lending. There’s organizations like Seattle Community Capital Development. Those are good alternatives to build as well, because 

they serve a niche that’s not being fulfilled by financial institutions. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Mike, did you have any comments on 

that, particularly as you related to high-tech businesses and the 

fact that you wanted to focus on, you know, startups? 

Mr. BOMAR. Yes. I think, you know, a couple of points. We 

have—one of the key connections is the educational institutions, 

and we talk about relationships and how those get transferred into 

knowledge about access to capital. Locally, with both WSU and 

Clark College, we have excellent institutions that are able to focus 

and create entrepreneurs with their programs and the research capacity that they have here as well, too. 

Particularly, with angel funding or venture capital or crowd 

funding—and there’s been some legislation recently passed on 

that—there are some opportunities at various levels of funding. I 

think the key is going to be the barrier to access relative to the size 

of the fund needs to be considered as well. 

So there are other avenues that are less constrictive as far as 

what’s available, so it may not behoove the SBA to go smaller necessarily. But I wouldn’t have that available right now. I just think 

that it’s important, but it may be serviced elsewhere as well. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Anybody else on that point? 

Mr. SWANSON. I’ll just say I actually cut my teeth on SBA lending when they first brought out the SBA express program. I was 

working for a very large—one of those national lenders that has a 

lot of capital. And I saw a lot of good from it. It was a program— 

I think our average loan size was $30,000. And, again, there was 

a lot of good—we could do a lot of small startups and build those 

into the bigger 7(a) loans, and it does mean a lot to their building. 

Evergreen Business Capital—we finally decided to apply for the 

Community Advantage Program, which is the small loans that 

CDCs can do. For us, it was a tough decision because you have to 

have capital within your organization, and as a nonprofit who—we 

put the money toward SCORE and SBDC, and we had to hold some 

of that money back in order to have that capital because the SBA 

does put a lot of the risk onto the CDCs to do those small loans. 

We feel it would be a great thing for us, because, again, we’ve 

got people in these small communities. But it isn’t the easiest thing 

to do. But we hope to be lending it in the next year. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. I wanted to go back to you, Mr. Swanson, because you talked more specifically about the 504 program. 
43 

So what do you think we need to do to more target our help there? 

You mentioned understanding the core customer and the refinance 

program—you know, simplifying the rules. What, specifically, do 

you think SBA needs to do to make that program successful? 

Mr. SWANSON. Well, like I mentioned before, they have cut some 

of the rules out. They have simplified it, and those start taking 

place, I believe, this week. So we are looking forward to seeing that 

happen. I think it’s just a general idea that the SBA needs to delegate a little bit more authority to the local CDCs. 

I think, you know, coming out of the recession, a lot of CDCs— 

their portfolios did not do well, and I think the SBA should look 

at each CDC as an individual organization, not all as a whole, 

when they’re reviewing each credit. I think, again, not all CDCs 

are created equal. There’s a lot of great CDCs across the country. 

And I think if the SBA, again, didn’t take a one size fits all as 

they look at applications from each CDC, I think that would really 

help put out more capital to small businesses. As the local CDC 

knows the borrower, knows the business, knows the local economy, 

I think that could really help. 

So that’s not really detailed, but it’s a bigger picture than—the 

process for 504 has just always had this reputation for being really 

long. When I first entered into the 504 world seven-plus years ago, 

you know, it would take a month to go from application into getting 

an SBA authorization. But for us, as an organization, we’ve cut 

that by less than half. 

So this whole thing moving forward—it’s just got to be a continual moving forward, and with the SBA continuously having 

someone there trying to say, ‘‘How do we make this easier for the 

borrowers? How do we get the capital out?’’—of course, balancing 

still that the SBA needs to protect the taxpayers and their investors. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. You mentioned the 10 percent down. 

Mr. SWANSON. I think that would be huge. Like I said, what 

we’re really seeing a lot nowadays is small business owners, you 

know, the ones that got through the recession, a lot of it was not 

taking salaries. It was using every bit of cash they had in the business to keep it going. 

Now, as we get this slow recovery, we’re really seeing that, you 

know, they have contracts, they need more equipment, they need 

a bigger space. But they don’t have that down payment. Even the 

10 percent is just insurmountable for some of them. 

But if we could make it so all businesses—currently, with a 504 

program, if you’re a business that has less than two years experience, or if you’re what the SBA calls a special purpose building— 

like a hotel is an example—they require an extra down payment 

on this. So I think if we could just have 504 as everything is 10 

percent down, I think that would help a lot of businesses in this 

economy. That 10 percent has really—fixed rate is great, too, but 

the 10 percent down is huge in the 504 program, getting access to 

capital. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Any other comments on the 504 program? 

Mr. CHANCE. A little encouragement. They haven’t offered it to 

the regulatory agencies of the financial institutions. But they visit 
44 

with the credit people to encourage this, and they do through the 

community outreach efforts, but the more of that, the better. It’s 

very helpful when our credit people hear that a program like 504 

is a great way to help with owner-occupied real estate, because it’s 

ultimately one of those larger transactions, and the credit administration people are providing the approvals. 

Mr. CHAIRMAN. So you think that there’s doubt that’s created at 

the federal level? 

Mr. CHANCE. Not only is there doubt, but it’s just they’re not getting the message as consistently and as strongly as would be desirable. If they were hearing that from the FDIC, for example, and 

the credit administration—‘‘Hey, we really like this product. We 

really like this product. It’s a good product,’’ it would be helpful. 

Sometimes there’s an inconsistency in the world. We hear from the 

marketing side, and then even with the SBA —— 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. And what would the other side be saying? This is an important piece. 

Mr. CHANCE. One says it’s very important—this is something 

good to do. The audit side has been saying, ‘‘Be cautious, be cautious,’’ and that’s very—that signals the SBA to come in. We’ve had 

favorable audits. Others tell me, other banks, that they get cautionary tales, like you haven’t scrutinized that carefully enough. 

You haven’t—you’ve underwritten it at a little higher leverage than 

you should. And so they’re kind of getting mixed signals between 

the different divisions. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Well, maybe that should be the subject 

of another hearing in Washington, to make sure that we understand how the regulators are looking at the 7(a) and 504 programs, 

because I think this is very important, very important. And it was 

very frustrating during the downturn to have on the one hand the 

Treasury giving access to large banks, and then at the same time 

federal regulators pounding on all the community banks on their 

margin rates and, thereby, you know, causing various challenges or 

collapses at the same time—so very challenging and very frustrating. 

If we could go back just for a second about this area, in general, 

I just want to make sure that before we wrap up today that I understand. Do you think this is about not having enough lenders in 

the area? Do you think it’s about communication? One suggestion 

from some people in the community was that maybe even the government shutdown slowed down the number of loans that were 

being processed, and that’s why these numbers are off, you know, 

from last year. 

Clearly, I would like to come back in a year, in two years, and 

see that Clark County and Cowlitz County and Southwest Washington, the lower Columbia, is one of the most business friendly 

places for job creation and new enterprises, and here is this cadre 

of people advocating these services. That’s one thing I’m hearing 

from all of you, communication and advocacy. But are we missing 

the sheer number of places, too, in the region that are providing 

those resources? 

Mr. CHANCE. More is always better, government shutdown is 

bad, and, certainly, the help in the internal marketing of federally 

enhanced programs, because it creates uncertainty. And we’re not 
45 

running a grant program where you apply on May the 1st, and we 

offer awards the following month, and that’s it. During the year, 

we want to be lending multiple times every day. If there’s uncertainty about the availability of the program, it makes it harder to 

have the momentum. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. But do you think that’s what’s causing 

this issue here? 

Mr. CHANCE. I don’t think so, because as your statistics show, 

Portland is a little unique. There are other places in the country 

that don’t have the same effects. It could be true that this part of 

the country seems, for whatever reason, to enter recessions a little 

bit later and come out of them a little bit later. So we may be seeing that general effect. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. What we’re seeing—you know, increases 

in other areas. And so we certainly want to—you know, we want 

a thousand flowers to bloom here and new enterprises, and we 

want to make sure they get access to capital. 

When you were—I’m not sure if it was you, Mr. Sawyer, or Mr. 

Swanson—talking about having these open houses and having SBA 

attend, were you thinking of Portland or Seattle? Or do you think 

we should have them both? 

Mr. SAWYER. Well, I think what I was referring to was collaboration with the Portland office to have SBA office hours, field hours— 

call it what you will—at the Vancouver Chamber and be able to advertise that to Vancouver Chamber members and/or the business 

community at large that this opportunity is here. If you want education, if you want to make a contact with the SBA, here’s an opportunity. You don’t have to drive across in traffic or whatever. It’s 

here five minutes away. Come on down—trying to become that one 

stop shop for all of our members as well as the business community 

at large. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. So do you think that’s been part of the 

gap, that some people —— 

Mr. SAWYER. Absolutely. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL [continuing]. Don’t know that the service—you know, they don’t know who to go to because they’re on the 

Washington side, and they don’t know if they should go to Portland 

or Seattle? 

Mr. SAWYER. Well, there’s a gigantic chasm that is that river 

that nobody wants to cross. Honestly, a lot of times, it is a problem 

for business owners. They literally don’t have the time. I mean, it’s 

a lot to ask you guys to be here today for a couple of hours. I mean, 

business owners are busy. They’ve got plenty of things going on on 

their plates. 

So to drive over—and, again, a lot of times, those other meetings 

are at times that are not exactly convenient. So if the Chamber 

were to work with providing that opportunity to present a more opportune time, I think you’d see some more access to more business 

communities. 

Ms. TANTISOOK. And I’d echo that and say that whatever solution 

you look at, just to make it simple for business owners as well as 

making it simpler for banks and lenders. To make it simpler on 

us—we don’t have a lot of time, and I know that in the past two 
46 

years, we’ve spent months and months and months just on financing, whether it’s filling out grants or working on loan applications. 

Our team is pretty qualified to do some of that stuff, but I know 

a lot of business owners don’t have those skills to come up with the 

things that the banks are asking for. So how can we create solutions that really work with the nature of business owners, which 

is they’re busy, and sometimes they don’t have all the skills to get 

the required documentation. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Nancy, did you want to add—I know 

you’re not miked or up, but as Acting Regional Director of the SBA, 

is there anything you want to say about the state giving resources 

here in Vancouver? 

Ms. PORZIO. Yes, there is. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Is there a microphone she can come up 

to? 

Ms. PORZIO. Thank you. Yes, I am representing the regional administrator, Calvin Goings, and I’m district director in Seattle, and, 

actually, I think, formal mentor to the new district director in Portland, Camron Doss. He’s been on board for about six months. So 

we’ve been talking about some collaboration, but I think it’s been 

made very clear today that we need to be doing more between the 

two offices, perhaps doing more training together down here. 

They have a relatively new staff in Portland, and I think they 

could gain a lot from the staff that’s located in Seattle. They have 

an average of 25 years of experience with SBA. So I do think that 

we could come down and do some joint training. But I also think 

we need to figure out how to make it a little easier. It’s just always 

complicated when another district has part of the state. 

So I don’t know if I would go so far as to say we need to change 

that and make it just Washington state and Oregon state. But I 

think we need to come up with a way that we can work a little 

closer together, you know, with all of our partners. The SBDCs report to Washington, yet they have a responsibility with the Portland office. It’s confusing. So I think—I don’t know if that’s something you necessarily need to deal with, or if that would be something SBA could look at. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Well, we certainly, you know, want to 

deal with it, because we think small business is a great economic 

development strategy for our country, in general. And if access to 

capital is a key ingredient, we want to make sure that it gets out 

there. We just want to address any issues that might meet this 

issue of regional challenges because people are not sure whether 

they should contact Seattle or contact Portland. And, obviously, we 

want them to have the best of both worlds. 

I just want to point out that there is a woman, Ann Marie 

Mehlum, who is the SBA access to capital person at the SBA in 

Washington, D.C. She is from Oregon, so back there, the head of 

the whole program is a Northwest person. So we should get her involved in making sure that we address any issues that might be 

about communication. 

People in Vancouver should have the best of both worlds, or 

Southwest Washington should have the best of both worlds. But 

that might be a little confusing. So maybe what we should do is 

just try to figure out something that the SBA could communicate 
47 

or come to terms with about how we would work as a region together. 

Ms. PORZIO. Well, this has been very enlightening, and it has 

helped me to see what’s going on, and we will definitely go back 

and make some plans to improve service and make sure that we’re 

more visible. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. Thank you. 

Mr. SAWYER. Could I ask a quick question? At the risk of making 

this sound weird, but simplifying it, is there a turf war, so to 

speak, in terms of a funding mechanism for Washington state 

based on however many loans go through you versus Oregon? 

Would there be a reason why it would benefit Vancouver to stay 

within Washington? Or is it just a matter of it doesn’t matter who 

gets it, as long as the entrepreneur gets taken care of? 

Ms. PORZIO. Definitely the second is more true to form. 

Mr. SAWYER. Okay. Okay. 

Chairwoman CANTWELL. My guess, Eric, is just as you said, you 

know. No one wants to cross the river, and no one else wants to 

drive three hours. So the question is how do we—your suggestion 

was right on target, how to get the Chamber and maybe others 

having services right in their backyard. So I think that’s what we 

should work on. That’s a good example. 

Well, we’re about out of time. I wanted to also mention for those 

who are watching, as I mentioned earlier, this is an official record 

for the Senate Small Business Committee, and so the record will 

remain open for my colleagues and others. I know that we have a— 

Vancouver Capital Access has been showing this, and there is—and 

we’ll have a link to the Web site, the sbc.senate.gov Web site, and 

that will be a place if people want to send an email, they can send 

an email as well. 

So if anybody at home who is watching this who is a small business owner or wants to be a small business and have access to capital questions, then Vancouver Capital Access, all one word, no 

spaces, at sbc.senate.gov. You can send an email and a communication, and we will get you to the appropriate sources. 

So I want to thank all the witnesses for your testimony today 

and your willingness to be here. To the entrepreneurs, thank you 

for being daring and helping our economy. To the lenders, thank 

you for your input on how to improve these programs. To the EDCs 

and the Chamber, thank you for making this area a more attractive place for economic development. 

We look forward to continuing this listening session around the 

state, and we will certainly get back to you on the recommendations that we will be taking before the full committee. 

So, again, thank you, everybody in Southwest Washington, and 

we’re adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:02 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] 

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