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87–141PDF 2014

ADVANCING U.S. INTERESTS ABROAD:

THE FY 2015 FOREIGN AFFAIRS BUDGET

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

MARCH 13, 2014

Serial No. 113–151

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

MATT SALMON, Arizona 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

TOM COTTON, Arkansas 

PAUL COOK, California 

GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina 

RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas 

SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania 

STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

DOUG COLLINS, Georgia 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

LUKE MESSER, Indiana 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American 

Samoa 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

KAREN BASS, California 

WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

JUAN VARGAS, California 

BRADLEY S. SCHNEIDER, Illinois 

JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III, Massachusetts 

AMI BERA, California 

ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California 

GRACE MENG, New York 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas

AMY PORTER, Chief of Staff THOMAS SHEEHY, Staff Director

JASON STEINBAUM, Democratic Staff Director 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESS 

The Honorable John F. Kerry, Secretary of State, U.S. Department of State ... 4

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

The Honorable John F. Kerry: Prepared statement ............................................. 6

APPENDIX 

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 44

Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 45

The Honorable Gerald E. Connolly, a Representative in Congress from the 

Commonwealth of Virginia: Prepared statement .............................................. 47

Written responses from the Honorable John F. Kerry to questions submitted 

for the record by: 

The Honorable Edward R. Royce, a Representative in Congress from the 

State of California, and chairman, Committee on Foreign Affairs .............. 48

The Honorable Brad Sherman, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of California ...................................................................................................... 52

The Honorable Ted Poe, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Texas .................................................................................................................. 55

The Honorable Albio Sires, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of New Jersey .................................................................................................... 60

The Honorable Matt Salmon, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of Arizona .......................................................................................................... 66

The Honorable George Holding, a Representative in Congress from the 

State of North Carolina .................................................................................... 68

The Honorable Theodore E. Deutch, a Representative in Congress from 

the State of Florida .......................................................................................... 72

The Honorable Brian Higgins, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of New York ...................................................................................................... 74

The Honorable David Cicilline, a Representative in Congress from the 

State of Rhode Island ....................................................................................... 76

The Honorable Ami Bera, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of California ...................................................................................................... 89

(1)

ADVANCING U.S. INTERESTS ABROAD:

THE FY 2015 FOREIGN AFFAIRS BUDGET 

THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 2014

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 1:20 p.m., in room 

2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ed Royce (chairman of 

the committee) presiding. 

Chairman ROYCE. This hearing of the Committee on Foreign Affairs will come to order. 

We are again privileged to hear from Secretary of State John 

Kerry. Last year, Secretary Kerry spoke before our committee following a trip to Asia dealing with issues related to the North Korean regional crisis. 

Today, Russian regional aggression is at the forefront, and I am 

pleased that the House took a position and spoke very decisively 

this week condemning Russian actions in clear and unmistakable 

terms. The U.S. has a strong interest in a democratic and prosperous Ukraine. To that end, the House last week passed important legislation to bolster the troubled Ukrainian economy. The 

Senate should move on this legislation today, and leave IMF debates until later. 

While the committee is interested to hear about events in 

Ukraine, the purpose of this hearing is to question the Department’s budget request for fiscal 2015. Needless to say, resources 

are tight and must be aligned with clear goals and objectives. This 

committee is responsible for oversight of how Department resources 

are spent, and we expect the Department to think strategically, not 

reactively. There is no margin for waste. There is no margin for 

abuse, and I am pleased that the Inspector General position was 

finally filled on a permanent basis after a 5-year vacancy. Mr. Secretary, thank you for hearing the request of this committee and 

acting. 

Last year, Secretary Kerry testified that the U.S. ‘‘is the guardian of global security.’’ Today, U.S. guardianship is frayed. Committee members are very concerned that Iran negotiations will 

leave the Iranian regime alarmingly close to a nuclear weapon. 

Syria, according to the United Nations, is the worst humanitarian 

crisis since Rwanda. Libya is failing and forgotten. In Egypt, we 

haven’t pushed an economic reform agenda based on individual 

property rights that is desperately needed there. For Asia, a senior 

Pentagon official asserted the other week that because of budget 

2

constraints, America’s high profile pivot to Asia ‘‘is being looked at 

again, because candidly, it can’t happen.’’ Mr. Secretary, as always, 

the committee stands ready to work with you on these and other 

critical issues. 

The Department must do a better job of holding foreign assistance recipients accountable, ensuring that they are meeting benchmarks for reform and development, especially in countries like Afghanistan, where so much has been invested. Our assistance is not 

an entitlement; it is a sign of our willingness to help others help 

themselves. 

Nor should foreign assistance dominate our relationships with 

partners and with our allies. This committee’s Electrify Africa legislation is an example of using assistance to improve the local investment environment while creating jobs here in the United 

States, all at a cost savings to the American taxpayer. 

Our efforts abroad must be aided by robust broadcasting to help 

advance our national interests. The current media climate is 

crowded with state media, like RT from Russia and CCTV from 

China, as well as non-state media like Hezbollah’s television station. These are our competitors on the ideological battlefield, and 

as former Secretary Clinton told this committee, right now, we are 

losing. Reforming the Broadcasting Board of Governors is no longer 

an option, it is a requirement, and I am pleased to be working on 

legislation with my colleagues to do just that. 

Mr. Secretary, our Nation faces many challenges, and the difficulty of prioritizing is compounded by our fiscal crunch. Through 

it all though, I look forward to working together to ensure that 

America maintains the leadership role we both support. 

And I will now turn to Ranking Member Engel for any comments 

that he might have this afternoon. 

Mr. ENGEL. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for holding 

this hearing to review the administration’s Fiscal Year 2015 international affairs budget request. 

Mr. Secretary, as ranking member, I want to welcome you. It is 

a pleasure to welcome you back to the committee. I want to begin 

by commending you for your tireless work on a wide range of critical issues. Your efforts underscore the great importance of continued U.S. engagement in the world and strong American leadership. 

At a time of crisis in the Middle East, Central Africa and now 

Europe, the internal affairs budget request supports our diplomatic 

and development efforts in these and other regions. It provides critical funding to strengthen our allies, fight the spread of infectious 

disease, combat terrorism, and support many other essential activities. 

The international affairs budget also stimulates job creation and 

economic growth here at home. By helping countries build their 

economies and develop free markets, we make it easier for American companies to sell their products abroad. 

The budget request also provides critical resources to help ensure 

the security of our diplomats and development workers. These 

brave men and women serve on the front lines every day, and we 

must ensure there is adequate funding to keep them safe. 

Finally, the international affairs budget includes humanitarian 

assistance that reflects the compassion and generosity of the AmerVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:31 Jul 02, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_FULL\031314\87141 SHIRL
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ican people. While we cannot solve all of the world’s problems on 

our own, we have a moral obligation to help ensure that hungry 

children don’t starve, that refugees displaced by war or natural disaster have basic shelter and that the poorest of the poor do not succumb to easily preventable diseases. 

All together, the international affairs budget accounts for less 

than 1 percent of the Federal budget. And let me repeat that: 1 

percent of the Federal budget. In my view, that is a very sound investment in our security, economy and humanitarian goals. 

Secretary Kerry, I know you agree with me that the United 

States must maintain its leadership in global health. However, I 

am frustrated to see that the budget request proposes significant 

reductions to numerous global health programs. I would like to 

work with you to ensure that we have the funding necessary to 

maintain the tremendous gains that have been made in the fight 

against HIV/AIDS and tuberculosis and to address emerging 

threats, like pandemic influenza. 

Mr. Secretary, on Ukraine, I believe we must continue to stand 

up for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and make it 

clear to President Putin that there will be serious consequences for 

his aggression. Chairman Royce and I are drafting legislation on 

Ukraine, and we look forward to working with you to ensure that 

the United States provides a robust assistance package to the new 

Ukrainian Government and imposes appropriate sanctions against 

human rights abusers and those who are complicit in the violation 

of Ukraine’s sovereignty. 

I am also deeply concerned about the ongoing crisis in Syria. 

Nearly 3 years after the start of the war, Assad remains in power 

and offshoots of al-Qaeda are growing stronger. Refugees continue 

to spill into neighboring countries, and we are all horrified by their 

stories of violence, torture and starvation. Secretary Kerry, I hope 

you will use this opportunity to discuss the administration’s strategy to end the terrible conflict in Syria. Back in 2004, when I was 

able to get passed the Syria Accountability Act, we knew then that 

Assad was a bad player. We couldn’t have imagined how bad he 

really is now. 

Iran remains among the biggest threats to our national security, 

even if negotiations resume next week with the P5+1. I hope these 

talks succeed, but I agree with you that our engagement with 

Tehran cannot be based on trust. Iran continues to be a bad actor 

on many fronts, supporting terrorism, violating human rights, and 

sowing instability in the region. We must keep that in mind as we 

negotiate on their nuclear program. 

I also want to recognize your efforts to facilitate a framework for 

peace between Israel and the Palestinians. There is still much 

work to be done, but you are helping to establish the foundation 

of what we hope will be a lasting agreement, and I hope there is 

sufficient political will to take meaningful steps toward a two-state 

solution. I must say that the Arab League’s proclamation the other 

day that they will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state is very 

disheartening. In the meantime, I am glad that the budget request 

fully funds aid to Israel and provides for Israel’s urgent security 

needs. 

4

And finally, here in our own hemisphere, I am deeply concerned 

by the Venezuelan Government’s crack down on peaceful protesters 

and attack on press freedoms. 

And in Haiti, I am pleased that U.S. reconstruction assistance 

has accelerated, and I thank Chairman Royce for expanding our 

committee’s oversight in this regard. 

So, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the Secretary’s 

testimony. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you, Mr. Engel. 

This afternoon, we are joined by Mr. John Kerry, the 68th Secretary of State. He has been there for just over a year now. 

Mr. Secretary, welcome again. 

And without objection, the Secretary’s full prepared statement is 

made part of the record, and members will have 5 calendar days 

to submit statements and questions and extraneous materials for 

the record. 

And if you could summarize your remarks, Mr. Secretary, we will 

soon face a short vote series on the floor. Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JOHN F. KERRY, 

SECRETARY OF STATE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that. 

Thank you very much for the privilege of being here with you. 

Ranking Member Engel and to all the members of the committee, 

it is a privilege for me to be able to be here with you today, and 

I hope to please you greatly at the outset by giving you one of the 

shortest renditions ever. 

I just want to start by saying thank you to all of you for your 

leadership, which is critical. We have a tough budget, nobody needs 

to be told that, but it has serious implications. 

I just want to say to you that it is a privilege for me to lead the 

70,000-plus employees of USAID and the State Department all 

around the world, and we are including in that local employees, 

who are critical to our ability to be able to function in the 285 posts 

around the world. These men and women serve, not in uniform, but 

at great risk, and they serve our interests, our values, and do an 

enormous job in an increasingly complicated world. 

What I would just say to all of you very quickly is, look, we 

spend one penny of the U.S. taxpayer dollar on everything that we 

do abroad in terms of our diplomacy in the State Department and 

USAID. It is all our development, all of our money, all the things 

we do for disease, antipoverty, 1 penny on the dollar. I don’t have 

to tell you, but I will just say very quickly, I am amazed by the 

return on that investment. And increasingly, as I have traveled 

around the world in the course of the last year, I have seen the degree to which people rely on the United States of America to be 

able to lead in instance after instance. I say that without any arrogance, without any chauvinism about, you know, the country. I say 

as a matter of fact, whether it is in Africa, Asia, South Central 

Asia, the Middle East, throughout the world, we play a critical role. 

And this committee, needless to say, is critical in what it is willing 

to authorize with respect to our ability to lead. 

The final comment I would make to you is that what we do really 

does make a difference, and increasingly in the State Department, 

5

I have focused and am focusing the efforts of our diplomacy on economics. We need to understand that in this increasingly growing 

marketplace, where more and more countries are chasing resources 

and opportunities are harder won, it is critical for us to be able to 

open up opportunities. And I could show you instance after instance where our Embassies or our consulates have engaged directly with American companies, helped them win contracts abroad 

in the multi-millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, and 

that means jobs here at home. It also means more security for the 

United States ultimately because of the relationships we build. 

I appreciate, Mr. Chairman, your adjusting the schedule a little 

bit here. The President, as you know, has asked me to leave in a 

few hours to go to London and meet with Foreign Minister Lavrov 

regarding the Ukraine, and he has asked to see me before I go, so 

I appreciate you moving the schedule up slightly. I know you have 

some vote challenges here, so I will end on that. We will submit 

the full testimony for the record, and I look forward to your questions. 

Chairman ROYCE. Well, thank you, Mr. Secretary. 

[The prepared statement of Secretary Kerry follows:]

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Chairman ROYCE. Like you, we are focused right now on the 

Ukraine, and best of luck on your mission there. We have taken 

concerted action clearly condemning this act of Russian aggression 

there. We have supported legislation to bolster the economy there 

and to take certain steps, which I think will bring some leverage 

to bear, but there is one other step we could take that in my view 

would really give us a hammer over Russia: 52 percent of the support for their military and their budget and their government 

comes from their export of natural gas and oil overseas, and most 

of that is their monopoly position that they have in Eastern and 

Central Europe. And it does seem that if the administration would 

move to allow the export of natural gas into the Ukraine, that that 

would send a powerful signal that we could indeed do something 

here that would produce American jobs. After all, we are flaring a 

lot of gas here. We are actually capping a lot of our wells. If we 

exported that specifically to that market, it might take time, but 

once we made that signal, investors would then put up the terminals necessary for us to do it, and it would go into the calculus in 

Moscow about whether or not they wanted to lose that position. 

And it might bring them to the table. And I wanted to raise this 

issue with you. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, we are all for it, Mr. Chairman. 

In fact, the Department of Energy has the jurisdiction over this 

within the administration. They have issued six licenses already 

for 8.5 billion cubic feet per day to be exported to free trade and 

non-free-trade countries, including Europe. So it is a possibility. 

Now, the first major project to export gas is not going to take 

hold until sometime in 2015, so—but since we are in March, 

Ukraine’s needs are, you know, such that they ought to be able 

to—if there is any manipulation of gas with respect to leverage by 

Russia, Ukraine will be able to weather it, and in the long-run, we 

are prepared and I hope others will be prepared to help shift the 

current energy dependency. 

Chairman ROYCE. I think that is great. Those six have been over 

a 3-year period, and it is only six. I think there are 24 pending. 

So anything that could be done to accelerate that and actually open 

that up for Ukraine and Eastern Europe would be, I think, very 

helpful. 

Another issue I wanted to ask you about was Iran. We had a situation where several hundred rockets, long-range ones that would 

otherwise have threatened Israel were intercepted. They were coming from an Iranian arms shipment, and they were headed to Gaza. 

And to me, that is a much better indication of Iran’s lack of good 

faith than anything they are signing at the negotiating table. 

But in terms of response to this particular violation, which is actually a violation of the U.N. requirement there on Iran, what will 

be the response at the U.N. Sanctions Committee and will the U.S. 

support additional terrorism sanctions as a result of Iran being 

caught in the act here with this violation? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Mr. Chairman, obviously, we need to 

take some kind of action. And it has not yet been determined precisely what, but let me just say, we worked very, very closely with 

Israel in the discovery and then ultimately the apprehension of this 

ship. And we didn’t do it because we don’t want to create accountVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:31 Jul 02, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_FULL\031314\87141 SHIRL
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ability. We want, obviously, to have the strictest accountability, so 

it is very much on the table. I can’t tell you today what the decision 

will be, but I can tell you that we obviously take it very seriously, 

which is why we worked at it. 

And I don’t disagree with you. You know, it underscores the reasons why we are so determined to put in place a no-nuclear-weapon 

policy that is fail-safe in our ability to be able to make those judgments, because obviously, there is a clash of other interests that 

will not be reconciled by any nuclear deal. 

Chairman ROYCE. Lastly, Mr. Secretary, as you know, this committee has been at the forefront of the scourge of human trafficking. We have seen abuses involving the fraudulent recruitment 

of people overseas. They are promised decent jobs in the United 

States, but they find themselves trapped into forced labor or into 

sexual slavery once they get here to the United States. 

I have introduced legislation that would require State Department consular officials to glean more information and to share 

more information in order to get at the schemes of the syndicates 

that misrepresent these positions, and I hope that we can work together on this. I know you have been focused on human trafficking 

as well. 

Secretary KERRY. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 

Thank you for your leadership on this. It is really welcome. I 

have the privilege of chairing our all-government effort. The President has made this a major priority. And I chaired a meeting last 

year in which we reviewed every single department’s efforts with 

respect to human trafficking. 

It is nothing less than modern day slavery. There are millions of 

people who are the victims of this human trafficking, and it is 

sometimes for sexual exploitation, but it is also for labor exploitation, and the marketplace is completely distorted and violated by 

virtue of this practice. There are work-slaves and sex-slaves and 

other—you know, family-help slaves, and others. It is a disgrace, 

and your legislation and other efforts need to empower us. We need 

to call greater attention to it. We need greater law enforcement effort, greater awareness, education, and so I appreciate your efforts 

on it and we will work with you very closely. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 

We now go to Mr. Engel of New York. 

Mr. ENGEL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Secretary, I had the honor of meeting with the Ukrainian 

prime minister this morning, and he reiterated to us that obviously 

the United States is indispensable in terms of Ukraine, Ukraine’s 

freedom and the aspirations of Ukraine to look westward rather 

than eastward. 

An observation I have had for quite some time is that the European Union, in its negotiations for affiliation with the Eastern 

Partnership, laid down a lot of stringent hoops that a country like 

Ukraine would have to jump through before they could join, before 

they could get the aid, before they could get whatever they needed. 

You contrast that with Putin saying, here’s $15 billion, no strings 

attached. Here is cheap energy, we are going to give you that. It 

seems to me that the EU has sort of failed in the past to really 

even the playing field. 

13

And, of course, we are dealing with these countries that are right 

on the cusp, not only Ukraine, but Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan, 

Armenia, to some degree. 

Does the EU finally get it? Do they finally understand that making things harsher for these countries will only push them into the 

arms of Russia? Are we now dealing with a more even playing field 

because of what has happened? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congressman, let me begin by saying 

something that I think we need to think about as we approach this, 

it has been one of the problems in the entire evolution of this current situation in Ukraine, and that is looking westward versus 

looking eastward. We don’t believe it has to be either/or. We do not 

believe it is a zero-sum game. And part of the problem, frankly, 

that has led up to this has been this kind of insistence that you 

have got to have all your eggs in this basket. No country should 

be doing that today. The marketplace just doesn’t work that way, 

the world doesn’t. 

We believe Russia has interests and has an ability to be able to 

be important to the development of Ukraine and so does Europe, 

and there is no reason why they shouldn’t look in both directions. 

We do. We look east. We look west. We look north. We look south. 

And I think it is very important to be careful about those kinds of 

limits. 

Now, that said, it is appropriate to require reforms and transparency and accountability, and a progression by which countries 

begin to adopt good governance practices and good business practices at the same time, and that is really what the standard has 

been with respect to accession, and we certainly are supportive of 

that. 

Mr. ENGEL. But do we not risk—if a government that is proWest, and I understand we want to make Putin not feel that he 

is trapped, but I, frankly, would like Ukraine to look West instead 

of looking East. Are we not worried that if we put too many straitjackets on them of things they have to do, austerity measures and 

things like that, that we wind up turning the people against the 

very government that we think is reform-minded and pro-West? 

Isn’t that a problem——

Secretary KERRY. No question——

Mr. ENGEL [continuing]. Something we should be cognizant of? 

Secretary KERRY. There is no question, Congressman, that there 

is a limit to sort of what you want to do all at one time. And indeed, you can drive people away that way, no question about it. I 

mean, look how many years Turkey has been working to try to, you 

know, gain EU accession and so forth. 

So I think that it seems to me that there is a balance. It is up 

to the Europeans to determine that balance, not up to us to try to 

dictate it or tell them what it ought to be, but it seems to me that 

when I talk about ‘‘Look East, look West,’’ it is clear Ukrainians 

want to embrace the freedom, the choice, the sort of competitive atmosphere and the dynamics of social life and structure that come 

with the accession to the West. On the other hand, when I say, 

‘‘Look East, look West,’’ I am talking about sort of the economic 

bottom line, the economic opportunities, trading, and so forth. And 

14

I think, in today’s world, there are a lot of people in Russia who 

also are looking in different directions. 

Mr. ENGEL. And, Mr. Secretary, I mentioned in my opening remarks about the Arab League’s rejection of recognizing Israel as a 

Jewish state. That is very disheartening, because it would seem to 

me——

Secretary KERRY. Well——

Mr. ENGEL [continuing]. That there are—that the way the stars 

have lined up, these countries should understand that Israel is not 

their enemy, Iran is their enemy. And Netanyahu has said that 

that is a prerequisite of any kind of a peace deal. 

You have said it yourself, Mr. Secretary, that they have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. And let me say it is a Jewish state, 

the national state for the Jewish people with equal rights for all 

citizens. We are not implying that there should be second class citizens, but if they are not willing at this late date to recognize Israel 

as a Jewish state, which the United Nations Security Council resolution in 1947, dividing historic Palestine into what it called a Jewish state and an Arab state, if 66 years later, they are still not willing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, then I don’t know how 

we can make progress in these negotiations. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congressman, that is not the final vote. 

And I have had plenty of discussions with all of the members of 

the Arab League. The formulation that you just articulated was not 

the formulation that was put to them for that vote, and so I will 

maintain hope for the notion that when you talk about a Jewish 

state or a nation state for the Jewish people or homeland for the 

Jewish people, it is always accompanied by what you said, which 

is with equal rights and nondiscrimination with respect to any citizen, and I believe that if that had been the vote, you might conceivably have a different outcome. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you. 

We go now to Ileana Ros-Lehtinen from Florida. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. 

Welcome back, Mr. Secretary. 

It is disappointing that in your submitted written statement for 

today’s hearing, you failed to mention the ongoing over 1-monthlong crisis in Venezuela. The administration has condemned 

Maduro’s use of force against the peaceful protesters in Venezuela, 

but voicing a concern is not enough. One of the opposition leaders, 

Leopoldo Lopez, was unjustly arrested and has been imprisoned, 

isolated in a military jail now for 24 days as Maduro attempts to 

silence dissent in Venezuela. Three more people died yesterday as 

a result of Maduro’s violent suppression, bringing the sad tally to 

two dozen dead since the protests began. 

The President issued an executive order that would impose sanctions against Russian officials responsible for human rights abuses, 

and I have written to the President asking that he do the same for 

Venezuela. Maduro continues to get help from the Castro regime, 

as you know. They have been sending Cuban troops to crack down 

on the Venezuelan protesters. Will the President hold these violators in Venezuela responsible and sanction individual human rights 

abusers in Venezuela? 

15

And continuing with the theme of accountability, Mr. Secretary, 

I have doubts that accountability and oversight over the Palestinian authority finances are actually taking place. As Ranking 

Member Engel just stated, Abu Mazen repeatedly reaffirms his refusal and unwillingness to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. He 

continues to pay nearly $5 million a year for the salaries of Palestinians who were imprisoned in Israeli jails, many of whom have 

blood on their hands. In fact, just yesterday, as you know, dozens 

of rockets were fired at Israel from Gaza. So this serves as a grim 

reminder that Israel continues to be under attack. 

And in the West Bank, hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars 

continue to flow to the PA, wishing and hoping and praying that 

they will do the right thing. What are you doing to ensure that the 

PA recognizes and accepts Israel as a Jewish state? Money is fungible, so one could say that U.S. taxpayer dollars are being used 

to pay the salaries of these terrorists. Would you say that that is 

true? 

And the administration is still seeking a waiver authority to fund 

agencies at the United Nations that admit a non-existent Palestine 

state. Abu Mazen has repeatedly reaffirmed that if the peace process fails to produce an agreement, the Palestinians will make a full 

out push at the U.N. to get statehood. You said that withholding 

our money would not deter Abu Mazen, but I say that it very clearly could deter U.N. agencies, so we cannot allow this waiver authority to undermine the peace process. 

And in addition, I would like to submit lastly for the record, a 

letter to President Obama requesting that the administration consider giving those at Camp Liberty in Iraq the opportunity to receive political refugee status for those who are eligible. So sanction, 

Abu Mazen and U.N. 

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congresswoman, that is a lot to handle 

very quickly, but I will try and do it as fast as I can, but let me 

just say to you on the issue of the oversight of the Palestinian Authority and their position on Israel, we begin with the premise that 

everything we are doing in this negotiation begins with Israel’s security, which has paramount—it has to be addressed. And I think 

Prime Minister Netanyahu would tell you that we have bent over 

backwards and are working extremely closely with him in order to 

do that. Now——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. If we could just segue, I am sorry, to Venezuela, then, Mr.——

Secretary KERRY. Yeah, but I want to finish one thing on that, 

because it is really important. On this, our position is that Israel 

has to be recognized ultimately as a Jewish state, but please remember, they are negotiating. Nobody is going to give up. I mean, 

you know, by the same token, Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn’t 

stand up and say, Hey, here is how I am going to give you Jerusalem or something. Everybody’s negotiating, and they aren’t going 

to make those decisions until they know what they are getting in 

other respects. 

On the next issue of the U.N. waiver, please, I got to tell you, 

this is a very one-sided event against us. Abu Mazen, if he writes 

a letter to the U.N., to 63 agencies, is automatically in them tomorVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:31 Jul 02, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_FULL\031314\87141 SHIRL
16

row, automatic. He is an observer state. That vote was taken: 140-

something to, I think, 9; 140-something to 9. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Yet we tried it in the budget to try to get 

U.N.——

Secretary KERRY. I know. But——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN [continuing]. The money. 

Secretary KERRY [continuing]. I want to——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. That was wrong of us. 

Secretary KERRY. What I want to explain to you is, whether or 

not the United States loses its vote and gets punished for him 

going is irrelevant to him. He will go, because it is a tool for him 

to be able to do things he hopes that will make life miserable for 

Israel——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. But, Mr. Secretary——

Secretary KERRY [continuing]. But not for us. If we lose our 

vote——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN [continuing]. We should not fund——

Chairman ROYCE. I am going to——

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN [continuing]. UNESCO if they do that. 

Secretary KERRY. I beg your pardon? 

Chairman ROYCE. I am going to make a suggestion. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. We should not fund UNESCO when they do 

this. 

Chairman ROYCE. We are down——

Secretary KERRY. Well——

Chairman ROYCE [continuing]. To zero time left in the vote. 

Secretary KERRY. But if I can just say to you——

Chairman ROYCE. Absolutely. 

Secretary KERRY [continuing]. This is not funding UNESCO. We 

are losing our vote. We can’t defend Israel in UNESCO. We can’t 

defend any of our other interests. We are not there. We are gone, 

because they went. And they will go again if they think it is in 

their best interest, and who will pay the price? The United States 

of America. We won’t be able to vote. So I am just saying to you 

this is a wrong-headed effort for deterrence. It won’t deter them. 

It will hurt us. We believe we need a waiver. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you, and I hope we get to Venezuela 

in the next round. Thank you. 

Secretary KERRY. No. But I will just tell you, on Venezuela, we 

are absolutely in a—we need to and we are not only speaking out, 

but taking steps. Vice President Biden was just down in Chili for 

the swearing in of the new President. We met with a number of 

neighbor states down there. We are engaged now with trying to 

find a way to get the Maduro government to engage with their citizens, to treat them respectfully, to end this terror campaign 

against his own people, and to begin to hopefully respect human 

rights and the appropriate way of treating his people. And we 

are—we think it is time for the OAS, for the neighbors, for partners and other international organizations to all focus on Venezuela appropriately, hold them accountable. 

Chairman ROYCE. This committee will stand in recess temporarily for the floor votes, and we will return immediately after casting our vote on the last item in this series to reconvene our proceeding. 

17

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 

Secretary KERRY. Thank you, sir. 

[Recess.] 

Chairman ROYCE. Without objection, I am going to go to Mr. 

Smith of New Jersey for 3 minutes. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I will be very brief, because we don’t have much time, but first 

of all, Secretary Kerry, thank you for your work on behalf of the 

Goldman Act and your personal intervention for many years in the 

case of Colin Bower. I had him sit right where you are sitting now, 

and he testified on behalf of his children who were abducted to 

Egypt, and thank you for helping that. The bill is now in the Senate. It was passed unanimously in the House, 398 to 0, and hopefully, it will not get hung up in any part of the process over in the 

Senate. Anything you can do to help on the Senate side would be 

deeply appreciated. 

We had a hearing on South Sudan, and Special Envoy Booth, 

Ambassador Booth testified. Some of our witnesses said that there 

is a need right now for a diplomatic surge, that this could get much 

worse. It already is very bad. Salva Kiir and all of the players 

there need to hear from us even more robustly. If you could maybe 

comment on that. 

And secondly, let me ask you, if I could, I have had four hearings 

on brain health related issues, one on the hydrocephalic condition 

as it affects mostly Africans. Some 300,000 children have a hydrocephalic condition, and a very simple intervention developed by Dr. 

Benjamin Warf of Harvard is very inexpensive and can be rolled 

out very quickly in Africa. He has already, at Cure International 

in Uganda, saved the lives of 5,000 children, and they are now 

building up capacity as it relates to training neurosurgeons. There 

are almost no neurosurgeons in Africa; in East Africa, there is 1 

for every 10 million people, to give an example of the dearth of neurosurgeons. 

The other is the whole issue of Alzheimer’s. We had three hearings on the global crisis of Alzheimer’s that mirrors the HIV/AIDS 

pandemic in terms of raw numbers. One estimate from one of our 

witnesses just recently was that we could be at 135 million Alzheimer’s patients globally by the year 2050. Some put it lower at 

115, but whatever it is, it is huge. The G–8 summit was a step in 

the right direction. Please work with us, if you would, on the issue 

of developing perhaps a global fund, not unlike what we did with 

the issue of HIV/AIDS and the pandemic of malaria and TBI. 

I am almost out of time, so I will yield to our distinguished Secretary of State. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congressman Smith, first of all, I really 

thank you for your continued passion on these kinds of issues. And 

as you know, one of your witnesses was a constituent of mine from 

my days in the Senate, who I worked with very closely when his 

children were abducted, and it continues to this day. We are still 

working on this issue. 

We need accountability in countries on this issue. There are 

many, many more people abducted than anybody knows, taken 

away to a country of origin for a wife or husband, one or the other, 

and the American spouse is left completely without rights and 

18

without ability to access their children or child. And it is a very, 

very painful thing, and I have seen the cost of it, as you have. So 

I worked with you, obviously, on that legislation. I congratulate you 

for pursuing it. 

On the brain research, et cetera, and treatment, of course, we 

would be delighted to work with you. Obviously, the age old question is going to be resources. We are already crunching up on some 

resources on the global fund and people who are dealing with that 

issue, which we have been at for 10 years plus now with an amazing story—I mean, 1 million lives of children saved and so forth, 

it is quite extraordinary—but we are under resource pressure. So 

if you can help us with that here, particularly in the House and 

in the Senate, we will be your ally and partner. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you. 

Mr. Secretary, we missed Mr. Sherman of California. We are 

going to go to him for 5 minutes. And then, without objection, so 

that we have time for the junior members to ask more questions, 

we will go to 3 minutes per member. I will ask UC for that, and 

afterwards we will go immediately to Mr. Meeks. 

Mr. Sherman. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. Secretary, like the last time you were here, 

I have got so many questions, that I am just going to go through 

the questions and ask you to respond for the record, and then my 

last question will be one I will ask you to respond to orally. 

I have noticed that U.S. diplomats are far less knowledgeable 

and far less concerned about commercial matters than are the officials of other foreign ministries and other diplomats that I have 

had a chance to deal with. 

Secretary KERRY. About which matters? 

Mr. SHERMAN. Commercial matters. And I am, therefore, pleased 

that you said that our diplomats have secured contracts for major 

American companies. In this room, I heard one of our very top diplomats boast as to how he had introduced the South Korean people 

to the Crossfire automobile and urged that they buy it, unaware 

that that automobile, made by Chrysler, or with the Chrysler name 

tag, was 98 percent German-made. And so I would hope you would 

furnish for the record what procedures we have so that our diplomats are pushing for U.S. jobs and U.S. value added, not just 

U.S. companies. 

In response to Eliot Engel, you put in kind of the accepting Israel 

as a Jewish state with rights for all people as kind of in the same 

category as negotiating about Jerusalem. I will point out that 

Israel has already made a very painful concession, and that is that 

there should be a sovereign Palestinian state, which is the home 

for the Palestinian Arabs, and I might add probably won’t have 

equal rights for all people. So I would hope that you would either 

persuade the Palestinians to accept Israel as a Jewish state with 

rights for all or, alternatively, suggest to our Israeli friends that 

they withdraw the concession that they have already made that 

there should be a Palestinian state that is a home for the Palestinian people until such time as the Palestinians make that same 

concession or co-relative concession. 

As to Iran, the question I would ask you to answer for the record 

is how—what defines a bad deal? Would it be a bad deal if Iran 

19

had such stockpiles, such technology and such centrifuges so that 

in a year of breakout, they could produce a nuclear weapon? 

My next issue is this committee voted to provide $1 million 

and—that $11⁄2 should be spent to communicate with the people of 

south Pakistan in the Sindhi language. I don’t think there is a 

more important country for our national security than Pakistan, 

and yet we face a lot of push back from your Department saying, 

well, it is just easier to communicate with Urdu. If you are trying 

to sell something, you need to sell it in the language that your customer wants to hear. 

I commend you, Senator Kerry, for your incredible record of 

fighting for recognition of the Armenian genocide, and hope that, 

as Secretary Kerry, you will do likewise. And, of course, it was—

the Azeri soldier that murdered a sleeping Armenian soldier at a 

NATO exercise that has been promoted and praised. And in light 

of that and other aggression, I hope that you would review and perhaps withdraw the idea of any military assistance to Azerbaijan. I 

would hope that you would also warn the Azeris that it is simply 

outrageous for them to threaten and shoot down civilian aircraft 

that try to fly into the Nagorno-Karabakh Airport. 

The phrase ‘‘pivot to Asia’’ sounds wonderful when people think 

it means trade delegations to Tokyo. I hope you would furnish for 

the record how we can be sure that this doesn’t mean that we take 

the eye off the Islamic extremists that have killed many thousands 

of Americans and get captivated by fighting for rocks which are 

misnamed as islands that have been uninhabited throughout 

human history. 

I hope that—but finally as to the Ukraine, I hope that you would 

make it clear that the Senate should pass the House $1 billion aid 

bill now, because the plan to load up IMF reform, which I know 

you very much support, and put that on the back of the Ukraine 

bill threatens to delay that bill for 3 legislative weeks, which I 

might add is 6 calendar weeks, and I don’t think that—I think it 

is critical that we provide $1 billion of aid, both for financial reasons and to make a statement. And I wonder whether you could respond to that last one orally, time permitting. 

Secretary KERRY. Absolutely, but I want to take—you have 

pegged something that I don’t want to leave any question about 

whatsoever. And I appreciate if you misunderstood it. I don’t want 

to leave it hanging out there, and that is on the issue of any 

equivalency between Jerusalem or the other. There is none. And it 

wasn’t meant in that way. It was purely that there are bargaining 

cards everybody has. But you are absolutely correct. 

The Jewish state was resolved in 1947 in Resolution 181, where 

there are more than 40—30 mentions of a Jewish state. In addition, Chairman Arafat, in 1988 and again in 2004, confirmed that 

he agreed it would be a Jewish state. And there are any other 

number of mentions, but those are the sort of most important acknowledgements thereof. I think it is a mistake for some people to 

be, you know, raising it again and again as the critical decider of 

their attitude toward the possibility of a state and peace, and we 

have obviously made that clear. That is a conversation that will 

continue. But Jerusalem is an entirely separate issue to be resolved 

20

entirely separately and has its own set of obviously deep concerns, 

and our position has been pretty clear on that. 

So, with respect to Ukraine and the aid, I want both, and I want 

them both now, but if I can’t have one, we have got to have aid. 

We have just got to get the aid immediately. We can’t be toying 

around here at a critical moment for Ukraine. And so, you know, 

I know how things work up here. I don’t want to get into the politics in between, but I do, to the degree I get into it, I want to say, 

we need both, we need them now. 

Now, IMF, I know some people react, oh, my gosh, it is one of 

those multilateral deals and, boy, do we hate that and so forth. 

Folks, countries that have gotten aid from the IMF are today donor 

countries in the world. They are contributors to IMF. They are reformed. They are open market economies. They are more accountable than they would have been. They are more democratic than 

they would have been. This is our lever for encouraging democracy 

and this is our lever for creating transparency and accountability 

and pricing reforms and getting rid of subsidies and creating an 

open market. That is how we have done it. 

And if you look dispassionately, non-ideologically, at the record 

of countries that have gotten it, it is an amazing return on investment for America. We don’t spend money and lose money. So I 

would urge people to do both, but, boy, do we need aid for Ukraine, 

and we need it now. 

Chairman ROYCE. We will go now to Mr. Meeks for 3 minutes, 

followed by Mr. Rohrabacher of California for 3 minutes. 

Mr. MEEKS. Thank you. 

Mr. Secretary, let me first just say that I have been delighted to 

meet and talk to a numbers of members of the chief of mission, 

who don’t get nearly the recognition that they should for the work 

that they do around the world on our behalf. They are just fantastic. Let me just see if I can ask these questions real quick, since 

I only have 3 minutes. Some are all over the place. 

One is, you talked about we spend basically a penny on the dollar. What help would it give, and as far as also influence in the 

region when we talk about—when we are talking about TTIP and 

making sure that we are getting involved with our European 

unions on that deal, or TPP in Asia, and does it—would those 

kinds of deals, does it help or hurt the State Department how you 

are moving forward? Does it help with our influence in those regions, or does it hurt us? So I would like you for to just say, because we have those two bills that may be before us some time 

soon, but how does it affect with reference to the State Department? That is number one. 

But then going to more specifics with the budget, I notice that, 

for example, in Colombia, that our assistance is being cut by almost $80 million. And as you know, that President Santos is close 

to coming to a resolution with the Revolutionary Armed Forces, 

and so if their peace agreement is signed, it would be important 

to provide the Colombian Government with support for demobilization and reintegration programs. And that is particularly important 

to me, because a lot of that has to take place, especially in AfricanColombian areas where many of these individuals will be going 

back into. And so if we were cutting those funds, we would be devVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:31 Jul 02, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_FULL\031314\87141 SHIRL
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astating the individuals still in that country that need the most 

help. So, you know, that $80 million is substantial. 

And lastly, of course, we had to down scale. There was a report 

that found that USAID had to down scale by 80 percent homes 

being built in Haiti after the devastation that took place there, the 

devastating earthquake. And of those 15,000 homes that were 

originally planned for construction, it was reported that only 2,600 

or so were expected to be built. Fortunately, I am told that reconstruction assistance has started to speed up with $1.4 billion of the 

now $2.4 billion disbursed. So my question is, my last question, 

how will the State Department further expedite assistance to 

Haiti? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, let me quickly touch on all three. We absolutely want you to not just talk about, but embrace TTIP and the 

TPP. These are essential ingredients of American projection of 

power and our economic well-being in the future. And, you know, 

you don’t have to make a final judgment on the thing at this point. 

Look at the deal when it comes. And it has got to be one that 

passes muster, we understand that, but the fact is that if we can 

reach agreed-upon standards for trading with 40 percent of the 

world’s market with respect to Asia, the fastest growing market in 

the world, and 40 percent of the rest of the world’s market in Europe, which we have a commonality with in terms of our standards, 

et cetera, already, we are raising the standards globally of trade, 

increasing the opportunity for jobs and job opportunities for Americans and revitalizing our own economic prospects, not to mention 

Europe’s. So we believe in this very deeply, and we hope people will 

see it as not just trade, but as security strategy, economic strategy, 

job strategy and so forth. 

On the issue of the cut to Colombia, it is very simple. Colombia 

has been successful. I can remember when I voted in the Senate 

for the first Plan Colombia. That was very controversial, and I 

voted for it. I thought it was the right thing to do, and now, I think 

that has been borne out. So we have been very successful in Colombia. We have money. There is increased capacity and security and 

development capacity in Colombia. They are understanding that. 

There comes a time when success means we don’t have to continue 

to necessarily fund something. And we are very supportive of President Santos’ peace efforts. Obviously, we want that to be successful. 

Finally, on Haiti, Haiti reflects money in the pipeline, and so we 

are being up front with you. We believe we have some money in 

ESF and the inkling that—you know, once that money is reduced, 

then we will come back and say, we need some money for Haiti. 

So we are not reducing the effort. There is no reduction in commitment. It is simply that there is some money in the pipeline and 

that should satisfy our needs for this year. 

Chairman ROYCE. Mr. Rohrabacher of California. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much. 

And thank you, Mr. Secretary, for your hard work. We see you 

going all over the world working hard for us, and even if we have 

some areas of disagreement, we respect and are grateful to you for, 

you know, working so hard for your country. Thank you. 

Secretary KERRY. Thank you. 

22

Mr. ROHRABACHER. A couple of issues. First is Camp Ashraf. 

Secretary KERRY. Yeah. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. And you have got our friends here in their 

yellow jackets. It is very clear that their group in Iraq have been 

attacked and murdered in great numbers and on several occasions, 

and that the current Government of Iraq is either in collusion with 

these murderers or at least they are turning their back and letting 

this happen. 

I have a piece of legislation, H.R. 3707, which would grant asylum to these people in Camp Ashraf who are obviously in danger. 

Is the administration supporting this concept in this legislation? 

Secretary KERRY. Congressman, let me just say, first of all, there 

is one solution to the problem of what is now Camp Hurriya, formerly Ashraf, and the answer is, and I have been concerned about 

it since I was a Senator, we need to relocate those folks. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. My legislation says relocate them here. Why 

not? 

Secretary KERRY. We are looking——

Mr. ROHRABACHER. They are in danger. 

Secretary KERRY. That is one of the things we are looking at. We 

have managed—I have appointed a special envoy/advisor with respect to this. He is a very competent counsel from here in Washington. He has been working on it full time. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. We need to get on this, Mr. Secretary——

Secretary KERRY. That is exactly what we are doing. We 

have——

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Before more of them die. 

Secretary KERRY. We have 210 who are now being transferred to 

Albania. We have about another 100 going to Germany. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Okay. 

Secretary KERRY. And we are now looking at the process here internally. We are working with UNAMI, with UNHCR, the Government of Iraq, other relevant authorities, but right now, the White 

House, Department of Homeland Security and other relevant agencies are looking at how many we might be able to take care of ourselves. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. I would hope that, within 30 days, if all these 

things that you have talked about have not come to fruition, that 

we decide to act and bring them here so at least they will be safe. 

Otherwise, the blood of these murdered innocent people are on our 

hands. 

Another issue, Dr. Afridi, the man who helped us bring to justice 

Osama Bin Laden, who slaughtered 3,000 American citizens, Pakistan has arrested Dr. Afridi. And even now, after all of this time 

and all these complaints and all of this negotiation, he is still in 

a dungeon. This does not speak well for the people who would side 

with the United States if we let Dr. Afridi, the ultimate hero in the 

fight against radical Islamic terrorism. 

My question to you is, number one, how can we possibly give the amount of aid you are proposing, actually a $1.3 billion in aid, both 

military and civilian aid, to Pakistan, how can we possibly do that 

when they are holding Dr. Afridi, which is a hostile act to the 

United States, and basically is an insult to those people who died 

on 9/11? 

23

Secretary KERRY. Congressman, this is a very relevant issue that 

I have raised personally with the leadership of Pakistan. I believe, 

at some point, we are going to break through and justice will be 

done, which means he will be appropriately released and free to 

leave. 

But you say, how can we give the aid? We have got a lot of interests with Pakistan. It is a nuclear nation. We are trying to work 

with them with respect to nuclear restraint and also with India 

and other issues. We are conducting counterterrorism efforts in 

that country that are vital to us with respect to al-Qaeda. We are 

engaged in major efforts. They have been very helpful with us, actually, in trying to work to bring the Taliban to the table if that 

were indeed possible. There are lots of efforts. Our basic supply 

line to our troops in Afghanistan starts in Karachi and goes 

through Pakistan. So these are the things that sometimes you have 

to weigh and balance. 

I believe the development of the country for many different reasons as a peaceful, stable democracy is very, very critical. They just 

had their first peaceful transfer of power from one President to another at the ballot box, the first time since 1948. Other times, there 

have been coups and killings and imprisonments. This was a peaceful democratic election. And so I think that it is important for us 

to think about the long-term, not just one issue. 

But we raise and are pushing Dr. Afridi’s cause. He should be 

free. 

Chairman ROYCE. We go now to Mr. Ted Deutch of Florida. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here today. This past Sunday 

marked the seventh anniversary of the disappearance of my constituent, Robert Levinson, from Kish Island in Iran. Monday 

marked Bob’s 66th birthday, another birthday spent without his 

family. 

I know how committed you are, Mr. Secretary, to returning Bob 

to his family, and I thank you for your statement of support this 

past weekend. And I know that you and Under Secretary Sherman 

continue to raise this case when you meet with the Iranians. I 

would just ask that you please keep Bob at the highest priority 

level in all of your meetings and discussions with the Iranian leadership. We must use every single opportunity to press for information and cooperation that will lead to his safe return. 

Mr. Secretary, as you know, also in recent days, 60 rockets were 

fired from Gaza into southern Israel, some striking near schools 

and libraries. Islamic Jihad, a militant group funded by Iran, immediately claimed responsibility. The attacks come just a week 

after Israeli officials intercepted an Iranian shipment of 40 shortrange rockets, 181 heavy mortars, 400,000 bullets and dozens of 

M–203 surface-to-air missiles bound for Islamic Jihad in Gaza. According to Israel’s head of military intelligence, Hezbollah, an Iranian proxy, now has as many as 100,000 rockets pointed at Israel 

and is actively engaged on the ground in Syria in support of the 

Assad regime. Iran has spent billions of dollars on arms and members of its elite Quds force in Syria. And now, despite the parameters set forth in the interim nuclear agreement, statements reported out of Iran this week indicate that Iran may now be unwillVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:31 Jul 02, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00027 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_FULL\031314\87141 SHIRL
24

ing to discuss outstanding questions on the possible military dimensions of their nuclear program. According to The Wall Street 

Journal, Iran’s Deputy Foreign Minister made clear that there is 

no rush to discuss these issues, possibly in an attempt to force the 

P5+1 to extend the interim agreement by showing adherence to 

other parts of the Joint Plan of Action. 

Please assure us that the United States and our allies will not 

allow negotiations to extend beyond 6 months if Iran refused to address the possible military dimensions of its nuclear program. 

And finally, Mr. Secretary, if you could just respond in writing 

to this last point. I am increasingly concerned that there is a presumptive bias against young Israelis seeking to travel to the 

United States. Reports indicate that because of widespread visa denials, many student-aged travelers simply no longer apply to come 

to the United States. In fact, on Embassy Tel Aviv’s Web site, there 

are videos warning young travelers about the risks of violating the 

terms of their visas. And while I understand that there are cases 

where the terms of tourist visas are violated, this does not mean 

that our policy should be to profile young Israelis and to arbitrarily 

or, as many have suggested, uniformly deny student-age Israelis, 

citizens of one of our closest allies, the opportunity to visit the 

United States. 

I would ask if the policy of presumptive denials exists with any 

other country, and I would appreciate you getting back to us in 

writing with the refusal rates of tourist visa applications by age 

from 16 to 30 over the past 5 years. And I appreciate you being 

here. 

Secretary KERRY. Happy to do so. Look, Israel is a vital partner 

of ours, obviously. In the last year, over 100,000 visas of all ages 

were issued; 20,000 were issued to Israelis ages 21 to 30 in each 

of the last fiscal years, issuance rates about 83 percent, which is 

not different from other folks or other places. So we will be happy 

to give you greater input on that if you want it, but I can guarantee you that these applications are treated fairly and similarly 

in all places. 

With respect to the Gaza and Hezbollah, it is a huge concern. I 

don’t know if it is 100,000 or 80,000. A few years ago everybody 

was throwing around the number 40,000; it grew to 60,000. Definitely an increase, huge increase. Huge threat. Major problem. 

Based in southern Lebanon and in the Bekaa Valley. And Assad 

has been transferring many of these weapons to them, and they 

have come through Iran. 

So it is a double-prong problem. It is one of the reasons why, 

when I came before you months ago, I was arguing so vociferously 

that we needed to pay attention to this overall Syria picture, because it is bigger than just the question of Syria. And this is an 

example of it. 

And finally, on the Iran negotiations, we are working at defining 

those components of the military aspects of the program which we 

can legitimately fold under, and we are not going to ignore them. 

Warheads, for instance, are an obvious one. Certain kinds of R&D, 

other examples. And we believe we interpret appropriately that the 

U.N. resolutions, as well as the Joint Agreement—JPOA, as we call 

25

it—both allow for and call for addressing of certain of the military 

aspects of this. 

Now, some people assert that goes to every single class of missile 

or something. I am not sure it would legitimately do that, to be 

honest with you. But certainly warhead. And there are military 

components of this that we are going to have to address in it. 

Chairman ROYCE. I would like to ask the members to be cognizant of their time limit and leave the Secretary time to answer 

their questions within that allotted 3 minutes, because the Secretary is going to be forced to leave, as you know. He is going to 

go overseas due to the Ukraine crisis, and we would like to be able 

to recognize as many members here as possible in our limited time. 

With that, we will go to Mr. Chabot of Ohio. 

Secretary KERRY. Mr. Chairman, would it help you—I want to 

hear from as many members as possible, and if you like, I can take 

the questions seriatim and so that we can answer them for everybody. 

Chairman ROYCE. May I suggest, though, if I just stick to the 

clock, that might be the best way to go. 

Mr. Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to thank the Secretary for his continuing focus on the 

Asia-Pacific region. I happen to be the chair of Subcommittee on 

Asia and the Pacific, and as the chairman knows, the chairman led 

a codel recently to that part of the world with Mr. Sherman and 

a number of our colleagues here. I think we learned a great deal 

and it showed our continued engagement with that part of the 

world. 

We have intended to hold a number of hearings about that trip 

and some other issues. I am not holding you responsible for this, 

Mr. Secretary, but we are having some trouble. I am disappointed, 

to some degree, in the lack of cooperation we have had with some 

of your folks. Despite repeated requests, our staff has been unable 

to get a briefing on the Fiscal Year 2015 East Asia and Pacific 

budget, and we have also been unable to schedule a hearing on 

North Korea because of lack of cooperation—and I am hearing 

similar concerns from others. I know you can’t be involved in the 

day-to-day activities but if you could check with your folks and if 

we could get some assurance that they will cooperate on getting 

these things set up, I would greatly appreciate that. 

Secondly, a number of administration officials, including the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, have recently made 

comments that the rebalance to Asia needs to be reexamined. 

These statements come at a time when our regional friends and allies articulate lingering concerns about the sustainability of increased U.S. engagement in the region, especially with the administration’s recent push to cut back on our military. 

The East Asia and Pacific Fiscal Year 2015 budget request states 

that one of the top strategic priorities is solidifying key bilateral relationships, and I would like to know which countries this applies 

to? How you are going to solidify that? 

Finally—and Mr. Royce already mentioned this, but I think it deserves another mention at least—it seems to me that from a U.S. 

perspective that it would make sense for us to ultimately be a net 

26

exporter of liquefied natural gas. We could produce more energy to 

be exported to our strategic partners in Asia and Europe and in the 

process, we could create more jobs here at home and more energy 

independence and strengthen our bilateral ties so that some of 

these important countries, and our European allies, might not be 

so dependent upon the bully Putin. I would urge the administration 

to look into that. You already mentioned that. And I know you 

have got 27 seconds to address all three questions. 

Secretary KERRY. We will get the hearings done, or briefing, 

whatever the issue is. We will take care of it. 

With respect to a rebalance, the 2015 request is $1.4 billion, 

which is an 8-percent increase over last year. So I don’t know who 

is suggesting we are not going to do that. I have made five trips 

already to the region. I was just there a couple of weeks ago in 

Korea and China. The President is going out there before very long. 

We are very focused, we are totally committed, and we are going 

to continue the rebalance. 

Now, that is not going to come at the expense of Europe or the 

expense of other places. It is in addition to. We have to do more. 

We are living in a world where we have to do more. And it is a 

conflict, obviously, with where we are with our budget, and you all 

are going to have to wrestle with that as we go forward. 

We all are going to have to do that. We have to talk about that, 

because, you know, it is critical that we project and remain active, 

and people want us to, particularly in Asia. South China Sea 

issues, the challenge of a rising China and the disputes in that 

area were critical to the free navigation and the peacefulness of 

that area. So I just want you to know that we remain completely 

committed to that. 

On the LNG, all for it. The one thing people got to look at, I don’t 

have the answer to this, there is a point where our exports could 

get to a level where it has an effect on your folks at home in terms 

of price at home, and you have got to look at what that differential 

is. I don’t know where it is, but at some point that could have an 

impact. 

Chairman ROYCE. We will go to Mr. Higgins of New York. 

Mr. HIGGINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, the President’s budget includes a $350 million increase for worldwide security protection account, which is obviously 

a good thing. I mean, protecting Americans, diplomats and humanitarian workers across the globe should be a major priority for our 

country. 

However, for those who perished, more must be done to secure 

justice. One such man, John Granville from Buffalo, New York, 

was a diplomat with the United States Agency for International 

Development. He was promoting and working toward free elections 

in South Sudan at the time of his death 6 years ago. 

He was in the Sudanese capital of Khartoum. Four Islamic extremists murdered John and his driver. They were captured, and 

they were convicted; however, they escaped from prison. Two remain at large, and the State Department has issued a $5 million 

reward for information leading to their capture. Meanwhile in February, the Sudanese Government pardoned the man who helped 

them escape. 

27

The United States deserves better. John Granville and his family 

deserve better. I have urged the President of Sudan to repeal the 

pardon, and we will continue to oppose efforts to delist Sudan from 

the state sponsors of terrorism. 

Could you provide an update on the efforts to capture his killers 

either verbally or through writing? 

Secretary KERRY. Yes. The two individuals who were alleged to 

have carried out this attack or carried out the attack have been 

designated by us as specially designated global terrorists designation. They have been fugitives since the June 2010 escape from 

prison in Khartoum, and despite Interpol notices and efforts, they 

have not yet been captured. 

We want to encourage their recapture, and with the designation 

we are trying to emphasize to everybody everywhere that we are 

going to pursue people, and that justice will be done. And so we 

are committed that they be returned to prison and serve out sentences, and that is what we are trying to do. 

Mr. HIGGINS. I yield back. 

Chairman ROYCE. Okay. We go to Mr. Joe Wilson, South Carolina. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for taking the time to speak with us 

today about the President’s budget for the Department of State. 

Clearly, this is a chaotic and dangerous time for the Department 

as America faces many challenges around the world with the 

Benghazi murder still unsolved. 

While we have you here, I share in everyone’s concern about the 

ongoing situation between Ukraine and Russia. Peace is threatened 

by President Putin’s regional aggression. I believe it is of paramount importance that the United States exhibit strength and determination toward the Russian Federation. However, the disastrous decision by the President and his budget to halt progress on 

the Mixed Oxide Fuel Fabrication Facility, the MOX Facility, at 

the Savannah River Site will allow the Russians the option to stop 

disposition of 34 metric tons of excess weapons-grade plutonium. 

Over the weekend USA Today ran a story in which Secretary Ernest Moniz of the Department of Energy commented, ‘‘At the right 

time,’’ the U.S. will have to reengage in plutonium disposition discussions with the Russians. He went on to say, ‘‘Now may not be 

the right time.’’

My question is, when will we be able to have these negotiations? 

If we back down on our end of the agreement, what assurances do 

we have that Russia’s excess material won’t end up in the wrong 

hands? 

Secretary KERRY. Look, that is an excellent question. I honestly 

need to get deeper briefed on exactly what that decision was, how 

it was made and why. So let me find out, and we will get back to 

you. 

Mr. WILSON. Well, thank you so much, because this is crucial. 

And, indeed, I was very grateful the Aiken Standard, local paper 

at home, Derrek Asberry on Saturday, wrote from the World Nuclear News that Russia is moving forward in constructing a fast reactor that will dispose of the high-grade weapons-grade plutonium; 

but at the same time, we are apparently ceasing our activities with 

28

the closure of MOX. And so this is just an issue that should be addressed, and I appreciate you looking into that. 

Additionally, in the past week we have had where the Iranian 

Foreign Minister said that it was an illusion that there would be 

the end to enrichment activities by Iran. Additionally, we had 

Israel seize a ship which had long-range rockets. It was an Iranian 

shipment to Hamas terrorists in Gaza. 

In light of that—and I agree with Ranking Member Eliot Engel, 

you can’t trust Tehran, and we know the young people of Iran want 

to live in a nontyrannical society—why shouldn’t we be reinstituting and pushing for harder sanctions in light of what has just 

happened in the last week? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, as you know, we do sanction Iran for 

other activities other than nuclear, and there is nothing to suggest 

that we shouldn’t take a step with respect to that. We sanctioned 

them for state sponsor of terror, and they are already sanctioned 

under that, and this fits under that banner, obviously. 

So we haven’t said no. You know, we are still trying to get—we 

have to get to the bottom of what is in it, how much, all this kind 

of stuff, and where it came from and tracking, because you have 

some fairly rigid standards that have to be applied legally when 

you make that determination. 

But that said, let me come back to a comment you made about 

the ship and the overall issue of Iran and not trusting them. I have 

said before, and I really want to emphasize to everybody here, 

nothing that we are doing with respect to this negotiation is based 

on trust. I have said, in fact I have quoted, I said, ‘‘Ronald Reagan 

said trust, but verify.’’ Our motto in this instance is verify, but 

verify. 

We are asking for the deepest, most extensive verification, inspection, accountability measures that have ever been put in place 

with respect to ascertaining what they are up to. So I can assure 

you, whether it is a ship or elsewhere, we are going to be pressing 

very, very hard for the insights necessary to grant to——

Mr. WILSON. We will have a study about the missiles and have 

a determination about these missiles? 

Secretary KERRY. Beg your pardon? 

Mr. WILSON. We will have a study about these missiles and have 

a determination——

Secretary KERRY. Well, we will make a determination. I can’t tell 

you what—you know, I haven’t reviewed all the options yet. I have 

not had a proposal put on my desk, and I haven’t put one on the 

President’s, but absolutely this kind of behavior is not appropriate 

and unacceptable. 

Chairman ROYCE. William Keating of Massachusetts. 

Mr. KEATING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I would like to thank the Secretary, and I would like to thank 

Assistant Secretary Nuland for your leadership in Europe and Eurasia, including Ukraine. 

Now, I recently introduced a resolution with Congressman Poe to 

encourage Georgia’s inclusion into NATO’s Membership Action 

Plan. And I appreciate your efforts, Mr. Secretary, and the administration’s efforts to support this goal. 

29

That being said, given what is happening in Ukraine, what has 

already happened in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, do you think 

that this is the right moment to actively push some of our European partners toward this goal? 

Second question, if I could. I am also concerned about the often 

violent situation in Belfast over the past year and the failure of the 

five parties to agree to a December 2013 draft of the Northern Ireland peace accord. What are your thoughts on the draft of the 

Northern Ireland peace accord and the rationale leading the State 

Department’s decision to eliminate funding for both the Mitchell 

Scholarship Program, which I know you have been a strong supporter of, and the International Fund for Ireland? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, we are going to look at—we are looking 

at the fund for Ireland piece because I think that, you know, we 

have our friends from Ireland coming in this Friday for meetings 

tomorrow. I won’t be here to take part in them, but we are going 

to be reviewing where we are with respect to the current impasse. 

And things have come, unfortunately, to, you know, a little bit 

of a standoff, stalemate, if you will, on further implementation of 

the peace process. So we need to take stock, renew our commitments, get back on track, and it may be that the fund is going to 

be an essential ingredient for doing that. We have got to make that 

determination. 

On your question about Europe, pushing them toward the goal, 

I missed that. I apologize, I didn’t hear what goal you were talking 

about. 

Mr. KEATING. About Georgia’s advancement into the Membership 

Action Plan with NATO. 

Secretary KERRY. Oh. We are continuing—those are all under review and under a constant process of helping those countries to be 

able to meet those standards that are available. Now, when you 

said pushing them, they have got to do their own set of decision 

making in order to meet the standards, and they know what they 

are. People are working with them. 

But there are government reforms, there are accountabilities, 

certain standards, different things have to happen for that process, 

and that has been salutary for those who have made the leap and 

joined, and it is very much open to them at this point in time. 

There are a whole bunch of people, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Kosovo, 

so forth, the Balkans, where this is true, and other places like 

Georgia. 

Mr. KEATING. Thank you. I yield back. 

Chairman ROYCE. We will go now to Mr. Ted Poe of Texas. 

Mr. POE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Secretary, I am concerned about a lot of things. In 3 minutes 

I am going to try to get a couple of them and let you have the rest 

of the time to answer. 

Pakistan, we give them money, they persecute the Baluch, and 

they have for a good number of years. Mr. Rohrabacher and myself 

and other members are very concerned about the persecution of 

this group of people. 

As Mr. Keating pointed out about Georgia, the Russians first 

moved into Moldova; then Georgia, one-third of the country is 

taken by the Russians; and now Ukraine. 

30

And the third concern I have is about the MEK. When you were 

here in April last year, since you were here then, I talked, asked 

you questions about it, then again in December. There have been 

62 members of the MEK in Iraq that have been murdered. 

The question, twofold: Ukraine, were we surprised that the Russians moved into Ukraine; if not, when did we know the Russians 

were going to invade another country? And then on the MEK, when 

is State Department going to make a decision to allow members of 

the MEK that are stuck in Iraq to come to the United States? 

When will that decision be made? Those are my two questions. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, that decision is under review right now. 

As I said earlier, you may not have been here——

Mr. POE. I know what you said earlier, that it is under review, 

but when are you going to decide to make the decision to either 

allow them to come in or not come in? 

Secretary KERRY. Homeland Security and the White House and 

other agencies, Justice, for instance, are engaged in an analysis of, 

you know, whether or not that can be done based on our judgments 

with respect to how many and whether it works. So——

Mr. POE. Are you going to require or not they renounce their 

membership in the MEK as a precondition? 

Secretary KERRY. I don’t know the answer to that yet. 

Mr. POE. Okay. 

Secretary KERRY. I think the key is to make certain that we are 

following the standards and procedures by which people are admitted to the United States, and that takes some vetting and so forth. 

Now, there are urgent circumstances here, and I have acknowledged those. Their safety is as risk; no question about it. And we 

want to move them out of Iraq as rapidly as possible, and that is 

one of the reasons why I have appointed somebody full time to be 

working on this. We have gone to a number of countries. 

And frankly, I will be very up front about it. One of the reasons 

we are urgently now reviewing this is people sort of say, well, how 

many are you taking? And that is an appropriate question to ask, 

and it deserves an answer. 

Mr. POE. Excuse me, Secretary, reclaiming my time. In the last 

20 seconds, when did we know about the Russian’s invasion of 

Ukraine? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, we knew about their movement of troops 

in there the minute it began to happen. But they have a basing 

agreement, and under their basing agreement, they are permitted 

to have up to 25,000 troops there. They currently have somewhere 

in the vicinity of 20,000 or so. That is including the increase. 

So they were perfectly within their limits of their base agreement, and in the initial stages in the inquiries that were made of 

them, that is what they said: We are moving because we have 

threats against some of our people; we are not planning to do X, 

Y or Z; we are not going into East Ukraine; it is not an invasion. 

And obviously, that has evolved. And so, you know, fait accompli. 

We understand what it is, and we understand exactly, you know, 

what they have done, which is precisely why the President has already issued an initial set of Executive Orders and created visa 

bans. And if we are not successful tomorrow in finding a way forward, and the referendum which we all anticipate which is going 

31

to take place on Sunday is done without some path forward, there 

are going to be serious repercussions. So that is where we are. 

The President has made it clear we take this very, very seriously, as do, I might add, all of our European partners. I was on 

a conference call with my counterpart foreign ministers this morning, and they are united and strong and determined that there will 

be consequences if we cannot find some way to diffuse this. 

Chairman ROYCE. David Cicilline of Rhode Island. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for your extraordinary service to our 

country and for your being here today with our committee. 

I am going to submit a series of written questions that relate to 

Armenia, Nagorno-Karabakh and Azerbaijan, to the Lajes Air 

Force Base and the U.S. Consulate in Ponta Delgada in the Azores, 

some questions relating to the Middle East peace process, our national ocean policy, the importance of continued attention to defense sales, and finally to State Department’s ongoing efforts to 

protect the human rights of LGBT individuals around the world, 

especially in countries such as Nigeria and Uganda. So I will do 

those in writing. 

And I would just ask you in the time that I have to really comment on two areas. One is U.N. peacekeeping functions. As you 

know, we are at least $350 million behind in our peacekeeping 

dues from Fiscal Year 2014. Your budget proposal brings us closer 

to fulfilling our financial obligations to U.N. peacekeeping. But if 

you could just speak to the importance of this funding and how our 

arrears impacts on our ability to pursue our interests at the U.N. 

and around the world. 

And the second issue I would like you to touch upon is, as you 

know from certainly your long service in the Senate, we and other 

developed countries jointly committed in the United Nations 

Framework Convention on Climate Change to $30 billion in assistance between 2010 and 2012 to help mobilize $100 billion in public 

and private funds by 2020 to address the causes and the impact 

of climate change. After that the United States elevated climate 

change as a development priority, and I wondered if you would 

speak to how your budget reflects those priorities and might help 

us realize those objectives, in 1 minute and 12 seconds. I apologize. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, we are extremely focused—I will take climate change first. We are extremely focused on the climate change. 

We have money for research for mitigation efforts. And we are 

gearing up—as you know, I just came back from China where we 

agreed to jointly work together in order to set the target dates for 

2015, and the President is laying down his climate action agenda. 

It is an all-government effort. So the budget actually doesn’t reflect 

everything because every department is being called on to do 

things with respect to climate change. 

On the issue of the U.N. peacekeeping, the request that we put 

in to you is $753 million above the 2014 request, and that is primarily because of increases to meet our commitments for Mali, Somalia, and South Sudan. In addition, we have to fund all the missions at the U.N. assessment rate, which is 28.4 percent, not the 

27-point-something percent we pay. So there is a gap. And finally, 

32

we are adjusting for one-time offsets that are being used to cover 

our bills. This time there is $218 million for that. 

So we are pulling down on some of our peacekeeping, East 

Timor, Liberia, Haiti, Cote d’Ivoire, several others, as the troop levels decline and as the need declines. But we have increased efforts 

in Africa in a number of different places, the Central African Republic, the Great Lakes region, South Sudan, and so forth. So the 

demands from the U.N. have grown, and the money has gone the 

opposite way. 

Chairman ROYCE. Matt Salmon of Arizona. 

Mr. SALMON. Thank you. 

Mr. Secretary, it is my honor to serve on the subcommittee, the 

Western Hemisphere Subcommittee, on this full committee, and as 

such, I am deeply troubled by the lack of clear vision and strategy 

in the region. Don’t get me wrong, you have many skilled diplomats 

operating throughout the region, but I fear the lack of coherent 

strategy and appropriate engagement comes from the top. 

In the last year, Cuba has been caught red-handed violating U.N. 

sanctions and shipping weapons to North Korea through the Panama Canal. Venezuelan opposition leaders and students are being 

imprisoned without charges, and demonstrators are being beaten 

and even killed by government forces, all for opposing Maduro’s 

failed economic policies and the overall dismal state of their economy. 

Ecuador and Bolivia have booted out our USAID missions, and 

our diplomats are inexplicably walking on eggshells for constant 

fear of expulsion. 

Drug trafficking and violence through Central America continues 

to increase, and the Russians have docked a warship in Havana’s 

harbor. These are just a few of the events happening in the Western Hemisphere. 

Meanwhile, the administration’s response to these regional challenges has been muted at best. Attempts to utilize our membership 

with multilateral organizations to hold these regional bad actors 

accountable have not been successful. 

In the case of Venezuela, the Organization of American States—

by the way, American taxpayers fund at least 40 percent of their 

operating budget—issued a shamefully weak statement on the violence happening in Venezuela and did nothing to oppose the 

human rights violations happening there or to support the demonstrators’ right to freedom of expression. 

Given the ineffectiveness of the OAS, I am not sure I can justify 

to my constituents continued funding for such an feckless organization. Furthermore, the U.N. has had to take strong action to punish the Cubans for violating U.N. sanctions and selling the North 

Koreans weapons right at our back door. I was recently heartened 

by the U.N. report that was recently released on this incident, but 

I strongly urge you to make sure that Cubans pay a significant 

price for thumbing their nose at international sanctions. 

Meanwhile, as Central America struggles with increased drugsmuggling activity and the corresponding violence, USAID is helping Guatemala by buying them solar panels. Really? 

To wrap up my point, Mr. Secretary, we need a better strategy 

in the Western Hemisphere and a renewed engagement and underVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:31 Jul 02, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00036 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_FULL\031314\87141 SHIRL
33

standing that our national security is on the line if we don’t start 

paying attention to our hemisphere. I hope you will take this on 

board and then share with us what that vision will look like and 

how it advances our national security. 

Finally, recently you stated in a speech that climate change is increasingly a national security threat. With all due respect, Mr. Secretary, given everything that is happening around the globe today, 

do you really believe that? I would submit to you that around the 

world, liberty and economic freedom are being threatened by tyrants, and those yearning for freedom are looking to the U.S. for 

leadership in defense of liberty, but instead USAID is offering solar 

panels. I believe that is an affront to the U.S. taxpayer and an insult to those seeking freedom around the world. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congressman, freedom also means the 

freedom to be able to eat and live where you live. And we have people who have just come back from meetings in the Pacific Islands 

where they are losing that ability because of the level of high tides 

that regularly destroy their homes and flood their communities. 

Freedom means the freedom to eat and have food, and increasingly food security is at risk because of global climate change. The 

fact is, our countries, they are going to run out of water, and there 

are nations that might have wars over water. There will be climate 

refugees in various parts of the world. There already are people 

fighting over water in places like Sudan and elsewhere. 

You know, the fact is that everybody has a right to the preservation of the ecosystem of the planet from which we live. You 

wouldn’t have life on this planet if it weren’t for the oceans. The 

oceans are increasingly at risk, at least the ecosystem within them. 

Fisheries overfish, unbelievable acidification taking place because 

of the pollution that goes into the ocean. 

So I just say to you, you know, there is a reason that General 

Zinni, who used to be our CENTCOM Commander, stood up and 

said climate change is a national security issue. There is a reason 

that the Pentagon, until recently for budgeting, had an office to 

deal with this issue, to make plans for the future for the changes 

that are going to take place in terms of security, you know? There 

are all kinds of implications. 

So I strongly urge you to recognize that if the things continue to 

happen that are already happening, as a matter of scientific fact, 

not my imagination; when countless scientists come together and 

all agree that X, Y and Z is happening, and happening now, and 

happening to a greater degree than it was before and faster than 

they predicted, you ought to step back and look at it. 

And, you know, the worst that can happen to everybody in the 

world if I am wrong, and Al Gore is wrong, and scientists are 

wrong, and the U.N. is wrong and countless communities are 

wrong is that we make a decision to have cleaner air, better health, 

you know, more jobs, new energy, energy independence. That is 

what happens. But if the guys who say it isn’t happening are 

wrong, life as we know it on this Earth can literally end. 

So you have got a choice, and I think it is pretty clear where the 

President and I are putting that choice. Is it an instrument of destruction on a global basis? I was in the Philippines where Typhoon 

Haiyan hit. And I will tell you, man, I have never seen devastation 

34

like that wreaked in as few minutes, and what happened to the 

trees stripped off the mountaintops and the entire community, several hundred thousand people displaced. So we have to pay attention to it, and that is where I am coming from. 

Chairman ROYCE. Let’s go to Mr. Grayson of Florida. 

Mr. GRAYSON. Mr. Secretary, if a free and fair election were held 

in the Crimea between being part of Russia and being part of 

Ukraine, what would be the result? 

Secretary KERRY. A free and fair election? Well, that is an 

oxymoron right now anyway, when you are invaded by 20,000 

troops, and you know. I have no doubt that people would vote for 

a greater affiliation with Russia. There is no question in my mind 

about that. But you can’t consider an election in the face of troops, 

and hastily put together in a few weeks without any debate, and 

also contrary to international law and contrary to the constitution 

of Ukraine as a free and fair election. 

Mr. GRAYSON. Well, hypothetically, if 90 percent of the people in 

the Crimea wanted to join Russia, what does that tell us about 

U.S. foreign policy in the region? 

Secretary KERRY. It doesn’t say anything about U.S. foreign policy. It says everything about history and culture and language and 

what they are believing. It is not a reflection of U.S. foreign policy; 

it is a reflection of a relationship that has existed for centuries. 

Ukraine used to be part of Russia for centuries. It has only been 

part of Ukraine—Crimea only part of Ukraine for 22 years, whatever, I mean, you know, formally. A little longer than that, excuse 

me. It has only been formally—in 1954, Khrushchev gave it to 

Ukraine as a ‘‘gift’’ but it was ratified and approved and subsequently passed on by the Duma in Russia formally accepting that. 

So there is no doubt that they feel a huge tie to Russia. That can 

be reflected and respected without invading, you know, with your 

troops and having an election at the point of a gun. 

Mr. GRAYSON. Does the U.S. have any vital national security interests in seeing whether Crimea is part of the Ukraine or Russia? 

Secretary KERRY. I think we have a vital national security interest in upholding international law, and in upholding the norms for 

international behavior, and not allowing somebody at the point of 

a gun to reverse settled lines of nations and to reverse the Constitution of a Democratic country and a country aspiring for greater 

democracy. Yes, I think we have a vital interest in that. 

But there is a difference as to whether it is an interest that rises 

to the level of, you know, deploying troops versus deploying economic measures and other kinds of choices that are available to us. 

Mr. GRAYSON. Well, tell us how you draw that line. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, I draw that line—do we believe that a 

nuclear war is worth fighting over Crimea? That would be a very 

tough question to resolve. I think most Americans would resolve it 

fairly fast. But on the other hand, most Americans would also 

agree very quickly nations should not behave the way Russia has, 

and they ought to pay a price if they choose to. 

Mr. GRAYSON. Is the principle of self-determination in play here? 

Secretary KERRY. It could be if it were done properly. An example of that would be what has taken place in—what is going to take 

place in the United Kingdom, where the Parliament has approved 

35

the right of Scotland to have an independence referendum. But it 

has been done through the appropriate mechanism. The Constitution of Ukraine requires that any effort by any entity within 

Ukraine to secede be done through the constitutional process. 

If Russia were to say, we think they ought to have additional autonomy, ought to be respected, the affiliation with us ought to be 

more clearly defined, there are plenty of ways for us, through the 

U.N., through multilateral efforts, through Ukraine-Russia discussions, to find out if there is an appropriate way to resolve that. You 

don’t do it—I mean, in the 19th century and 20th century, we 

learned the way to do it is not by invading a country and forcibly 

arbitrarily changing those lines. 

Chairman ROYCE. Jeff Duncan of South Carolina. 

Mr. DUNCAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Secretary, you have been clear about your opinion regarding 

Iran’s nuclear ambitions, but you haven’t been clear about your position with regard to Iran’s activity in the Western Hemisphere. 

Specifically, there was a bill signed by the President in late 2011 

dealing with countering the Iranian threat in the Western Hemisphere, and a report that was put out by the State Department. 

And specifically, do you believe that Argentine prosecutor Alberto 

Nisman’s report on the AMIA bombings in the 1990s should be 

taken in consideration by the State Department as they reevaluate 

the Iranian threat here in this hemisphere? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, anything that is relevant to the Iranian 

threat in the hemisphere ought to be taken into account. And we 

have been looking at this issue of Iran in the Western Hemisphere, 

and there is some evidence, obviously, of that. And they have been 

playing for a certain period of time. It is not clear if that has grown 

at this point or continuing at the same level. 

But this gives me a chance to come back to the question earlier 

about the hemisphere and Venezuela and so forth. Look, I have 

been in this job now for just over a year, and my initial effort when 

I went down to the OAS meeting and have engaged was to try to 

meet with the Foreign Minister of Venezuela and sort of say, you 

know, what are we really fighting about? We are for healthcare, 

you know, assistance for your citizens; we are for economic transformation; we are for freedom of speech, these kinds of things; we 

ought to be able to find some means of cooperation. And there was 

an agreement to sort of begin that tentative effort to try to see if 

we could find common ground. 

Next thing we knew, bad habits were being pursued again, and 

the folks in Venezuela were simply lobbying grenades—you know, 

figurative diplomatic and political grenades at us, ideological grenades. 

Mr. DUNCAN. Yes, sir, that is what concerns me about the bad 

habits, because Mr. Nisman in Argentina points specifically to 

Hezbollah and Iran’s activity with being attributable to the bombings there in Buenos Aires that killed Argentine and Jewish and 

other lives. 

So are you familiar with the report, and do you think the State 

Department——

Secretary KERRY. I have not read the report, no. 

36

Mr. DUNCAN. I appreciate it. And I would ask that the State Department circle back up with me on that. 

Let me just ask a question on a different line, because I am concerned about Argentina. And they are seeking to reopen the spigots 

of international aid without doing anything to solve the bigger 

problem, and that is that its policies remain hostile to meaningful 

private investment. 

And so my question in the remaining time is what are you doing 

to urge Argentina to meet its obligations and settle with its creditors? 

Secretary KERRY. We have been urging them to do exactly that. 

And we have, as you know, been amicus briefed on a number of different cases. We are pressing very hard to see that they do that. 

They have a responsibility to do it. They owe about—I think it is 

about $600 million are owed to us, our folks, and we are working 

on a way to deal with their——

Mr. DUNCAN. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I hope the State 

Department can continue to be more forceful with that. 

Chairman ROYCE. Bradley Schneider of Illinois. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you. 

And, Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. As you said in 

your opening prepared remarks, what we do in the world matters. 

And what you and people on your staff and team do here and 

around the world are crucial. 

We are here talking about the Fiscal Year 2015 budget; however, 

global affairs don’t necessarily follow a fiscal year calendar, and 

there are three deadlines looming in the coming months that I 

think are incredibly important. First, in the spring, the current 

round of negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians; 

June 30 is the deadline for the removal of chemical weapons from 

Syria; July 20 we then see the conclusion of the 6 months on the 

joint plan of action with Iran. 

At the same time, around that region, we have a series of very 

concerning trends with Egypt and its government, the chaos in the 

Sinai, the pressures on Jordan because of Syria, what is happening 

in Turkey, even what is happening in sub-Saharan Africa leading 

to refugees into the region. 

So my questions in a very brief amount of time is all of these 

deadlines, whether they are successful or unsuccessful, and the assumptions are 50/50 in many cases, are going to have serious implications and financial demands, fiscal demands on the United 

States and the world. Do you believe that the budget as proposed 

here for Fiscal Year 2015 provides the resources and flexibility for 

the State Department, for you to do what is necessary for a successful outcome? 

Secretary KERRY. Congressman, that is a terrific question, well 

thought through in terms of noticing the confluence of all of those 

dates. You are absolutely correct; big things are potentially going 

to happen all in short order, one way or the other. And the answer 

is profoundly no, I don’t believe we are adequately resourced. But, 

you know, this is the best budget we can get under the circumstances of the budget deal that was cut up here. It is not the 

budget we need. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you. 

37

Secretary KERRY. And I will just say to you, if we are successful, 

if we can move forward on the Middle East, that is going to require 

some real thoughtfulness up here about how we are prepared to 

support the Middle East peace process. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Let me extend on that. As we do move forward, 

I hope, and I know I am joined by my colleagues here, that with 

the negotiations of the Palestinians, paramount, as has been said 

before, the security of Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people, that the joint plan of action is an interim deal that does not 

become a permanent deal; and that we as a country, the United 

States, remains fully committed to ensuring that Iran does not 

achieve its goal of a nuclear weapons capability, and that all options remain on the table in that respect; and that the status of 

chemical weapons in Syria by June 30 is dealt with and dealt with 

directly. 

And finally, if I can, my last second, echoing some of the other 

things that have been said, ask for your follow-up on the status of 

visas for young Israelis of student age. 

Thank you. I yield back. 

Secretary KERRY. Thank you very much. 

Chairman ROYCE. And we will go to Mr. Kinzinger of Illinois. 

Mr. KINZINGER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. You keep up a very intense schedule, and it is going to continue today, and so I want to 

thank you both for your service in the past in uniform and your 

long service as a civilian. So I want to say that. 

I want to make a couple of points with a question. The first point 

I want to make is remind everybody that to an extent, the situation 

in the Ukraine was created by the Russians a long time ago, and 

so now when they claim that they have these interests of people 

in eastern Ukraine, that was a situation created by them. 

I was shocked to hear a colleague earlier actually seemingly defend the actions of Russia, and actually my jaw kind of hit the 

floor, and I wondered if the same colleague would have defended 

the Iraq invasion of Kuwait on the basis of Iraq saying that they 

have national interests. 

One comment on Afghanistan. Karzai is gone soon. It is probably 

a good development for the region, I hope, and I want to say I hope 

that the United States is committed to the bilateral security agreement. I think we are. Hopefully the new President there signs that, 

and we can move forward. 

I want to talk about Iraq. I obviously have been very critical of 

the pullout of Iraq, but without revisiting that, we are where we 

are today. I want to ask you, Mr. Secretary, how you see the situation in Iraq today with ISIS. 

And then specifically from your Department’s perspective, I know 

there is still a robust State presence in Iraq. What are the challenges State faces there? What are some of the needs? And as 

Members of Congress, what can we be aware of to ensure that we 

can resist Iraq going in a place that we don’t want it to go? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congressman, thank you very much. 

Thank you for your service, which I really respect enormously. And 

I am grateful to you for the question. 

38

Iraq is in a fragile place, but it’s not—Iraq would have been in 

a fragile place no matter what, because it was—you know, turned 

topsy-turvy through the war where you had a Sunni minority that 

for centuries, I mean really for centuries, had governed at the expense of the Iraq—of the Shia majority, vast majority, and suddenly that was reversed. And all of a sudden you not only had that 

reversal, but you had an Iranian nexus that was accented in this 

connection, which raised the suspicions of the rest of Sunni world, 

a lot of other nations in the region, and it exacerbated a divide in 

terms of this competition for influence, Iran and its influence. 

And now with Syria, that has been even more complicated, because you have the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, which is 

pulling people out of Iraq, and you have got a certain amount of 

Iraqis in Syria as part of this sectarian conflict. 

And so it is fragile. And that is what has happened in Fallujah, 

and in, you know, Ramadi and so forth is this resurgence of the 

sectarianism in its most violent form. 

Now, that is complicated by the way in which, unfortunately, the 

government has chosen to govern without an inclusivity that is 

necessary, without resolving some of the age-old issues of the Constitution, and the oil and so forth, the oil revenues. Then, of course, 

you have the Kurds cutting their own deals on the side with Turkey or elsewhere, and there are just a lot of tensions pulling at 

each other. So it is very fragile right now; it is a fragile moment. 

You have flights coming out of Iran, which we continually talk 

to the Prime Minister about, the need to be—that should be 

stopped. They are not. There is an occasional inspection, which is 

a phony inspection in which people are tipped off, and it doesn’t 

really do anything. 

So we are pushing very hard. We have an outstanding Ambassador, Ambassador Beecroft, on the ground. We have an outstanding Assistant Secretary, Brett McGurk, who is constantly out 

there, working very, very hard at this personally. Vice President 

Biden is on the phone. I am on the phone. We are deeply involved 

in trying to push these issues into a place where they can be resolved, and where we pull the government along to reach out and 

govern more effectively and resolve some of these kinds of issues. 

I am convinced personally every one of these issues would be on 

the table no matter whether there were a few troops there, 10,000, 

whatever. The troops aren’t the difference. Iraq has to resolve 

Iraq’s future, and the Iraqis have to do that. The same thing ultimately will have to happen in Afghanistan. 

Chairman ROYCE. We go now to Joe Kennedy from Massachusetts. 

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Secretary, good to see you again. Thank you 

for your extraordinary service to our country in many forms, as my 

colleague indicated. 

I wanted to ask you, just follow up really on comments from my 

colleagues in three areas if I can. First and foremost, Egypt. We 

have heard some very troubling press reports even just this week. 

The Washington Post had a very troubling article, I believe it was 

on Monday, indicating thousands that were arrested and thousands 

held without charge. It was happening—I think a direct quote, 

39

‘‘They are just putting people in jail, and it is happening all at 

once.’’

Obviously, Mr. Secretary, this is an issue that strikes us here at 

home. Congressman Smith referenced your former constituent 

when you were a Senator in Massachusetts, now my constituent, 

Colin Bower, and how that is affecting U.S. interests. So if you can 

just give us a little bit of a forecast as to what you see going on 

in Egypt and really how we can be even more effective going forward. 

Two, building off on Mr. Kinzinger’s question about Afghanistan 

and the BSA, if you can shine any light as to how those negotiations are going, or if they are going at all at this point. 

And then three, this committee had a hearing about 8 months 

ago or so after the conflict in Mali. And I was struck by, as you 

are probably well aware, the median age in Mali is about 16; in 

Niger, it is 15. Throughout much of Northern Africa it is in the late 

teens, early twenties. And as you move eastward, including the 

area along the Mediterranean, you are getting close to 200 million 

people with the median ages in the early twenties or so. 

What can we be doing from a long-term perspective to make sure 

we are not having hearings about crises, whether it is Algeria or 

Mali, whether it is the seizures over oil rigs or attempted coups, 

to make sure that there is a long-term strategy put in place for the 

long-term development of not just this region, but the world. 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congressman, that last question is the 

big question that all of us need to be dealing with and coping with. 

President Obama is analyzing that now and has asked us to look 

at it very, very closely and help to design the agenda. I am pushing 

my people to do that. We are really intensely focused on this question of huge populations in these volatile areas under the age of 30; 

you said the median age is 15, but huge, 60 percent under the age 

of 30, 50 percent under the age of 21, so forth, and were less—were 

more, excuse me. 

Now, if they don’t have jobs, and they don’t have opportunity, 

and they are disenfranchised, and the only thing available to them 

is radical extreme Islam, religious extremism, et cetera, we have 

got a long road ahead of us, all of us. And therefore, we have to 

think carefully about how much it is in our security interest as well 

as in our long-term economic interest to be trying to get ahead of 

this and deal with it in ways now, which we have done effectively 

in various places historically, and we are not doing it there. 

Just very quickly on Egypt—on the BSA, there is an article today 

somewhere, you know, President Karzai has basically attached conditions to the signing of it. It is not at issue. The BSA is negotiated. He is not trying to change a word in it. He is simply refusing to sign it unless X, Y and Z happens in the country, and the 

things he has chosen to have happen are not going to happen easily, if at all, and they are out of our control. 

So each of the candidates running for President has said they 

support the BSA, they will sign it, and I expect it will be signed 

at some point in time, if not by Karzai, by one of them. 

Egypt is very, very challenging right now. It is vital that the interim government take measures in order to permit young people 

to be able to demonstrate, people to be able to take part in the poVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:31 Jul 02, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00043 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\WORK\_FULL\031314\87141 SHIRL
40

litical system. We cannot be arresting activists. We cannot see journalists arrested. Those things need to change. I hope they will. 

We would like to see them be successful. It is vital to all of us 

that Egypt be successful. And we need one-quarter of the Arab 

world to find its footing now and get a government in place, move 

to this democratic process, stabilize hopefully, and begin to develop. 

But there are very troubling issues that need to be resolved with 

in terms of people’s rights and protections in Egyptian society. 

Chairman ROYCE. We have enough time for Mr. Holding. If you 

take 2 minutes to ask your questions, and then Mr. Lowenthal take 

2 minutes to ask your question, we will allow the Secretary to respond, and then we know he has his appointment. 

George. 

Mr. HOLDING. Yes, sir. Usually, by the time it gets to me, Mr. 

Secretary, all the important topics have been covered at least twice, 

but conspicuously, we haven’t talked about the world’s largest democracy today. As you know, within a month or so almost 800 million people are going to go to the polls and choose a new government in India. Wall Street Journal recently said that the Congress 

Party will suffer more than likely overwhelming defeat, and more 

than likely the BJP Party will form a government with Narendra 

Modi at the head of it. 

What are you doing to put us in a good place with our relations 

with India, with the BJP government; and how much do you think 

we will have as a setback the issue with Modi’s visa status and us 

denying a visa to him; and where do you see that we sit with that 

right now? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, I am not going to comment on that part 

of it, if you don’t mind, simply because it is before the election, and 

I don’t want anything I say here to play into the election in any 

way that it should or shouldn’t. 

We respect that democracy. We respect India. We have worked 

hard to get over the hiccup we had recently with respect to a diplomat in New York. Our Assistant Secretary has just returned from 

a trip to India. We are very, very anxious, a very important relationship, very, very vital country in terms of the region and globally, and we have big issues to work on together. 

Mr. HOLDING. If I could ask you one quick question in the last 

16 seconds. Do you disagree with Israel’s assessment that the 

weapons recently intercepted were coming from Iran? 

Secretary KERRY. No, I don’t, based on superficial evidence. But 

we want to pin things down in terms of legal. But, no, I don’t. 

Chairman ROYCE. Mr. Lowenthal. 

Mr. LOWENTHAL. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for joining us and for 

spending so much time, and I will shorten my questions. 

We sometimes provide assistance to countries with startling 

human rights records. We have talked much about that today. For 

example, I am most interested in that the Government of Vietnam 

has been ranked as one of the 10 worst countries for press freedom. 

In addition, Vietnam has undertaken authoritarian and undemocratic assault, on Internet freedoms, on censoring, on restricted 

usage of the Internet. 

How do we balance, Mr. Secretary, our goals of stability and 

prosperity for developing countries with our duty to protect the 

41

human rights of all people? So, for example, what are we doing to 

leverage what was in this budget, the increased economic developmental assistance to Vietnam, with our goal that they should begin 

to end human rights violations? Is there a balance? 

And the second question has to do with overseas security for employee engagement. Post-Benghazi we had a hearing here. The Department of State made a number of efforts to improve the physical 

security of our Foreign Service employees overseas. However, over 

the years our diplomatic presence, as we have heard, has become 

more difficult, employees find that they are less accessible, and employees working out of facilities are finding it more difficult to actually engage in the contacts with their locals. 

What is the Department doing to ensure that employees can continue to engage and do their work that they have really been sent 

overseas to do? How can they raise and even challenge what they 

feel sometimes to be overly onerous security requirements? 

Secretary KERRY. Well, Congressman, that is a really good question, and it takes a little longer to answer than I have, so I am 

going to submit much of it in writing. But I will say to you, we are 

constantly working this issue. We are deeply concerned about it 

ourselves. There is a tradeoff and a balance between security and 

the ability to get out and do the job. So we are providing more security. 

And I can’t tell you, we have a number of Embassies where people are working in very difficult circumstances, and we have been—

sort of receded to compounds in certain places rather than people 

being able to live out in the community and so forth. These are the 

risks that we live with today. 

So we have increased Marine guard protection. We have tighter 

rules about movement. We have certain restrictions in certain 

places. It is very difficult, something the committee, you know, 

might look at in detail at some point in time. It costs more, and 

that is part of the budget challenge here, to keep that presence out 

there and keep people being out there. 

We have higher costs for security, higher costs for the physical 

structures, higher costs for the deployments. Some of them are now 

hardship deployments where the families don’t follow; you know, it 

is unaccompanied tour. Those are difficult. So all of this is, you 

know, more expensive and more complicated, administer headaches, and we need to talk throw how we are going to manage it. 

On Vietnam, we are deepening our relationship and working 

hard, I just was there not so long ago, and working on a number 

of initiatives together. President Obama and President Sang announced a comprehensive partnership initiative. But the truth is, 

and we are very clear about it, every meeting we have, we talk 

about human rights and race cases and talk about the needs to 

move forward. Vietnam still has authorities who are excessively restrictive of political rights, excessively restraining on freedom of expression and on the Internet and so forth. 

Now, there were some modest improvements during the year, 

last year, 2013, including the release of the well-known legal activist, Le Cong Dinh; and Vietnam signed the Convention against Torture; and there was an increase in Protestant Church registrations, 

church. 

42

When I went there, most recently, I went to mass in Ho Chi 

Minh City, and it was a pretty normal kind of event. It was not—

you know, didn’t create the stir it might have some years ago. 

So we think we can make more progress. They have more to do. 

To their credit, they are listening, and they are working at it, you 

know. The pace, we think, could be picked up, but there is a slow 

progress. 

Mr. Chairman, I have got to——

Chairman ROYCE. Well, we understand, Mr. Secretary. We thank 

you for your time today, and we wish you luck on your trip. And 

let me share with the members here that the record remains open 

for any members to submit questions. Again, we thank the members for their participation. 

Again, thank you, Mr. Secretary. We stand adjourned. 

Secretary KERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Congressman Engel. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 3:50 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

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