U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

86–894PDF 2013

COMMERCIAL SPACE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SPACE 

COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND 

TECHNOLOGY 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

NOVEMBER 20, 2013 

Serial No. 113–56 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY 

HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

RALPH M. HALL, Texas 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., 

Wisconsin 

FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma 

RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

PAUL C. BROUN, Georgia 

STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois 

LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana 

STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas 

BILL POSEY, Florida 

CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming 

DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona 

THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky 

KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota 

JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma 

RANDY WEBER, Texas 

CHRIS STEWART, Utah 

CHRIS COLLINS, New York 

EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois 

DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland 

FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida 

SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon 

ERIC SWALWELL, California 

DAN MAFFEI, New York 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

JOSEPH KENNEDY III, Massachusetts 

SCOTT PETERS, California 

DEREK KILMER, Washington 

AMI BERA, California 

ELIZABETH ESTY, Connecticut 

MARC VEASEY, Texas 

JULIA BROWNLEY, California 

MARK TAKANO, California 

ROBIN KELLY, Illinois 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SPACE

HON. STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi, Chair 

RALPH M. HALL, Texas 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana 

STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas 

BILL POSEY, Florida 

DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona 

JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma 

CHRIS STEWART, Utah 

LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas 

DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland 

SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon 

DAN MAFFEI, New York 

JOSEPH KENNEDY III, Massachusetts 

DEREK KILMER, Washington 

AMI BERA, California 

MARC VEASEY, Texas 

JULIA BROWNLEY, California 

FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida 

EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

November 20, 2013 

Page 

Witness List ............................................................................................................. 2 

Hearing Charter ...................................................................................................... 3 

Opening Statements 

Statement by Representative Steven Palazzo, Chairman, Subcommittee on 

Space, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives ........................................................................................................... 5 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 6 

Statement by Representative Suzanne Bonamici, Subcommittee on Space, 

Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives ....................................................................................................................... 7 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 8 

Submitted statement of Representative Lamar S. Smith, Chairman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology ......................................................... 9 

10 

Witnesses: 

PANEL I 

The Honorable Kevin McCarthy, Member, Majority Whip, U.S. House of 

Representatives 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 11 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 14 

PANEL II 

Ms. Patricia Cooper, President, Satellite Industry Association 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 17 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 20 

Mr. Stuart Witt, CEO and General Manager, Mojave Air and Space Port 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 30 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 32 

Mr. Dennis Tito, Chairman, Inspiration Mars Foundation 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 40 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 42 

Discussion ................................................................................................................. 79 

Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions 

Ms. Patricia Cooper, President, Satellite Industry Association ........................... 96 

Mr. Stuart Witt, CEO and General Manager, Mojave Air and Space Port ........ 107 

Mr. Dennis Tito, Chairman, Inspiration Mars Foundation ................................. 112 

Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record 

Submitted statement of Representative Donna F. Edwards, Ranking Member, 

Subcommittee on Space, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology ....... 118 
Page

IV 

Submitted statement of Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking 

Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology .................................. 119 
(1) 

COMMERCIAL SPACE 

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2013 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SCIENCE

COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY, 

Washington, D.C. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:02 a.m., in Room 

2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Steven Palazzo 

[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. 
2 
3 
4 
5 

Chairman PALAZZO. The Subcommittee on Space will come to 

order. Good morning. Welcome to today’s hearing titled ‘‘Commercial Space.’’ In front of you are packets containing the written testimony, biographies, and required Truth in Testimony disclosures for 

today’s witnesses. I recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement. 

The Commercial Space Launch Act was passed nearly 30 years 

ago and was the turning point for the growth of the commercial 

space sector in our economy. The advent of the commercial space 

industry brought with it advances in space launch: communications; entertainment; position, navigation, and timing technology; 

weather monitoring; remote sensing; space tourism; science experimentation; and expanded human spaceflight. 

The latest data available suggests the economic impact of the 

commercial space industry is approximately $208 billion. Congress 

has provided the Federal Government with various mechanisms to 

leverage the private sector, such as the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services Program and the Commercial Crew Program, 

FAA experimental permits, human spaceflight regulation moratorium, prize authority, and various public-private partnership authorities. 

As Congress continues to look for ways to maintain the United 

States’ preeminence in space and grow our economy, it is clear that 

the promise of the commercial space industry warrants additional 

attention. 

We must ensure that export controls and International Trafficking in Arms Regulations are rational and productive. We need 

to provide stable, certain, and competitive regulatory environments 

at the Federal Aviation Administration, the Federal Communications Commission, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that facilitate domestic investment. 

There is no question that our commercial partners have a valuable role to play in our Nation’s space flight and exploration in the 

coming years. But there will be trade-offs. 

We must continue to weigh whether potential cost-savings come 

at the expense of overall capabilities, robustness, or safety. We 

must also recognize there are core, fundamental operations that 

will still need to be maintained by the Federal Government. 

The witnesses before us today represent a variety of perspectives 

on the commercial space industry, and I look forward to hearing 

their testimony. We are also pleased to have or will have the Majority Whip, Representative Kevin McCarthy, with us today. Representative McCarthy, along with Representative Bill Posey, introduced H.R. 3038, the Suborbital and Orbital Advancement and 

Regulatory Streamlining Act or SOARS Act. 

The Committee appreciates their leadership and willingness to 

work with us in developing policies that can grow our economy. 

Next year we hope to take up a comprehensive commercial space 

bill to address these issues, as well as many others. 

The commercial space industry has been invaluable to our successes in the past, and the future continues to look very bright. I 

look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the 

aisle as well as with industry stakeholders to come up with com-
6 

mon-sense policies that can help put people back to work, retain 

our skilled aerospace workforce, and protect our industrial base. 

Finally I would like to address the perennial elephant in the 

room, commercial launch liability. This provision, which is so important to keeping our launch industry competitive in the international market, is set to expire once again at the end of the year. 

The NASA Authorization Act that passed this Committee over the 

summer included an extension for five years. 

While I would have liked to see a long-term extension, it appears 

as though we have reached an agreement with the minority to only 

extend the provision for one year and take the issue up more thoroughly next year as part of a larger Commercial Space Launch Act. 

I look forward to sponsoring this extension, along with Chairman 

Smith, Ranking Member Johnson, and Ranking Member Edwards. 

I hope we can discharge the bill and pass it under suspension of 

the rules on the House floor very shortly. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Palazzo follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SUBCOMMITTEE ON SPACE CHAIRMAN STEVEN PALAZZO

The Commercial Space Launch Act was passed nearly thirty years ago and was 

the turning point for the growth of the commercial space sector in our economy. The 

advent of the commercial space industry brought with it advances in space launch: 

communications; entertainment; position, navigation, and timing technology; weather monitoring; remote sensing; space tourism; science experimentation; and expanded human spaceflight. 

The latest data available suggests the economic impact of the commercial space industry is approximately $208.3 billion. Congress has provided the Federal government with various mechanisms to leverage the private sector, such as the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services Program and the Commercial Crew Program, 

FAA experimental permits, human spaceflight regulation moratorium, prize authority, and various public-private partnership authorities. 

As Congress continues to look for ways to maintain the United States’ preeminence in space and grow our economy, it is clear that the promise of the commercial space industry warrants additional attention. 

We must ensure that export controls and International Trafficking in Arms Regulations (ITAR) are rational and productive. We need to provide stable, certain, and 

competitive regulatory environments at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), 

the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) that facilitate domestic investment. 

There is no question that our commercial partners have a valuable role to play 

in our nation’s space flight and exploration in the coming years. But there will be 

trade-offs. 

We must continue to weigh whether potential cost-savings come at the expense 

of overall capabilities, robustness, or safety. We must also recognize there are core, 

fundamental operations that will still need to be maintained by the federal government. 

The witnesses before us today represent a variety of perspectives on the commercial space industry and I look forward to hearing their testimony. We are also 

pleased to have the Majority Whip, Representative Kevin McCarthy, with us today. 

Representative McCarthy, along with Representative Bill Posey, introduced H.R. 

3038, the Suborbital and Orbital Advancement and Regulatory Streamlining Act or 

SOARS Act. 

The Committee appreciates their leadership and willingness to work with us in 

developing policies that can grow our economy. Next year we hope to take up a comprehensive commercial space bill to address these issues, as well as many others. 

The commercial space industry has been invaluable to our successes in the past, 

and the future continues to look very bright. I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle as well as with industry stakeholders to come up 

with common-sense policies that can help put people back to work, retain our skilled 

aerospace workforce, and protect our industrial base. 

Finally I would like to address the perennial elephant in the room—commercial 

launch liability. This provision, which is so important to keeping our launch indus-
7 

try competitive in the international market, is set to expire once again at the end 

of the year. The NASA Authorization Act that passed this Committee over the summer included an extension for five years. 

While I would have liked to see a long term extension, it appears as though we 

have reached an agreement with the minority to only extend the provision for one 

year and take the issue up more thoroughly next year as part of a larger Commercial Space Launch Act. I look forward to sponsoring this extension, along with 

Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Johnson, and Ranking Member Edwards. I hope 

we can discharge the bill and pass it under suspension of the rules on the House 

floor very shortly. 

Chairman PALAZZO. With that yield the remainder of my time to 

my friend from Florida, Mr. Posey. 

Mr. POSEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Over a halfcentury ago Congress established the Federal Aviation Administration with the mission of ensuring the safety of the flying public. 

Today the FAA requires that new experimental vehicles designed 

to probe the fringes of outer space be as safe as a commercial airliner. Had the same stringency been applied to the automobile, 

Henry Ford’s Model T might have never made it onto the streets. 

That is the situation that our country’s space pioneers are faced 

with today. 

Under current U.S. law, the experimental launch vehicles and 

experimental aircraft supporting them can be designed, built, and 

flown by our most innovative companies. But they can’t charge for 

their services. Representative Kevin McCarthy and I introduced 

H.R. 3038, the SOARS Act, to change that. 

There is a private company at the Kennedy Space Center which 

NASA hired and the FAA licensed to conduct astronaut training 

and payload testing. I should say was licensed. Two years ago the 

FAA decided they made a mistake in allowing the company to fly 

their FAA-defined ‘‘experimental’’ aircraft in support of NASA’s 

launch activities and so the FAA grounded them. Now, obviously 

that was very bad news for the company, and that was a 100 percent safety record at NASA. It defies common sense that a longstanding NASA partner can be arbitrarily grounded by the FAA. 

We need to fix the problem by updating our laws so our space 

innovators have the freedom they need to innovate and regulators, 

such as the FAA, have the appropriate amount of flexibility to 

strike the right balance. Congressman McCarthy and I believe this 

bill will do that. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you, Mr. Posey. With that I yield to 

the Ranking Member, the gentlewoman, Ms. Bonamici. 

Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for holding 

today’s hearing on commercial space, and welcome to our witnesses. Subcommittee Ranking Member Donna Edwards will join 

us shortly, and she asked me to take her place until then. 

Mr. Chairman, the Ranking Member also asked that her opening 

statement be included for the record. 

Ms. BONAMICI. As many of the Committee Members have stated, 

on several occasions, we see a strong link between the space program and the inspiration it provides to our younger generation 

through various STEM activities. Commercial space is an important component of that inspiration and a key source of jobs and innovation. 
8 

The commercial satellite industry has experienced strong and 

steady growth over several years. I hope to hear today about what 

factors have contributed to such growth and how other commercial 

space ventures might learn from their successes. 

The audacious proposal from Mr. Tito and the entrepreneurial 

spirit overflowing at Mr. Witt’s Mojave Space Port demonstrate 

that America’s yearning for deep space exploration and thirst for 

innovation are alive and well. But maintaining such enthusiasm requires a well-oiled partnership between the Federal Government, 

states, private industry and academia. 

Thankfully there are many indications to show that this partnership is alive and well. Just yesterday the first high school developed CubeSat was launched along with other payloads aboard the 

Air Force’s ORS–3 mission on a Minotaur 1 rocket from NASA’s 

Wallop Facility. The Thomas Jefferson High School’s CubeSat, 

known as TJ3Sat is a joint project between the high school and industry partners to design and build the CubeSat to increase interest in aerospace technology. 

And a few weeks ago, I was pleased to see, from my home state 

the Oregon Space Grant Consortium, which promotes STEM education through cooperative and interdisciplinary programs while recruiting and training NASA’s next diverse workforce announced its 

2013–2014 scholarship recipients. This consortium, part of the National Space Grant College and Fellowship Program, is a statewide 

network of universities, colleges, museums, educators, researchers, 

students and science professionals. Each of the scholarship recipients has expressed an interest in seeking a future in the aerospace, 

science or education community and has attained the highest level 

of academic achievement. 

Our partnerships among government, industry, states and academia need to match their goals, dedication and high achievement 

with challenging and engaging work. 

So today I hope I get to hear our witnesses discuss their views 

on the state of the U.S. space workforce, how important STEM activities are to cultivating the skills that commercial space companies need, and what it will take to build the type of workforce that 

will eventually lead to our U.S. commercial space activities into the 

next century. Let us keep their inspiration alive by finding greater 

opportunities for partnership. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, again for holding this 

hearing, and I yield back the balance of my time. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Bonamici follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE SUZANNE BONAMICI

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today’s hearing on ‘‘Commercial Space,’’ 

and welcome to our witnesses. Subcommittee Ranking Member Donna Edwards will 

join us shortly. She has asked me to take her place until then. Mr. Chairman, the 

Ranking Member also asked that her opening statement be included for the record. 

As many of the Committee Members have stated on several occasions, we see a 

strong link between the space program and the inspiration it provides to our younger generation through various STEM activities. Commercial space is an important 

component of that inspiration and a key source of jobs and innovation. 

The commercial satellite industry has experienced strong and steady growth over 

several years. I hope to hear today about what factors have contributed to such 

growth and how other commercial space ventures might learn from their success. 
9 

The audacious proposal from Mr. Tito and the entrepreneurial spirit overflowing 

at Mr. Witt’s Mojave Spaceport demonstrate that America’s yearning for deep space 

exploration and thirst for innovation are alive and well. But maintaining such enthusiasm requires a well-oiled partnership between the federal government, states, 

private industry, and academia. 

Thankfully, there are many indications to show that this partnership is alive and 

well. Just yesterday, the first high school-developed cubesat was launched along 

with other payloads aboard the Air Force’s ORS-3 mission on a Minotaur 1 rocket 

from NASA’s Wallops facility. 

The Thomas Jefferson High School’s cubesat, known as TJ3SAT is a joint project 

between the High School and industry partners to design and build a CubeSat to 

increase interest in aerospace technology. 

And a few weeks ago, I was pleased to see the Oregon Space Grant Consortium, 

which promotes STEM education through cooperative and interdisciplinary programs while recruiting and training NASA’s next diverse workforce, announce its 

2013-14 Scholarship Recipients. The Consortium, part of the National Space Grant 

College and Fellowship Program, is a state-wide network of universities, colleges, 

museums, educators, researchers, students, and science professionals. Each of the 

scholarship recipients has expressed an interest in seeking a future in the aerospace, science, or education community and has attained the highest level of academic achievement. 

Our partnerships among government, industry, states, and academia need to 

match their goals, dedication, and high achievement with challenging and engaging 

work. 

So today I hope to hear our witnesses discuss their views on the state of the U.S. 

space workforce; how important STEM activities are to cultivating the skills that 

commercial space companies need; and what it will take to build the type of workforce that will eventually lead our U.S. commercial space activities into the next 

century. Let’s keep their inspiration alive by finding greater opportunities for partnership. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you, Ms. Bonamici. I now recognize 

the Chairman of the Full Committee for a statement. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank you, 

too, for having this hearing today. And I want to thank our witnesses for being here as well to share their expertise on this subject. 

It is appropriate, and I know he will be here momentarily, to 

have Representative McCarthy join us today to discuss his bill, 

H.R. 3038, the SOARS Act. This legislation seeks to streamline the 

regulatory process. It also amends parts of the Commercial Space 

Launch Act to provide clarity regarding new systems and how they 

are defined. Reducing red tape for our space entrepreneurs is a 

necessary step to ensuring their continued growth. 

The commercial space industry offers improvements to the quality of life for every person on the planet. The discoveries and applications that have come from space technology number in the hundreds. The storied past of American ingenuity and exceptionalism 

is filled with examples of entrepreneurs who pushed the boundaries 

of the possible. The commercial space industry relies on this same 

creative spirit. 

America has always been a Nation of innovators and explorers. 

We continue to remain on the forefront of new discoveries and technologies. This industry could yield results that blur the lines between science fiction and science fact. Students of tomorrow could 

go to college to study a whole new field that resulted from the development of private space exploration. 

Perhaps in the next 20 years we will see new technologies and 

business models that result in private space laboratories. For example, advances in the suborbital space industry could yield the 

potential to send a package or people from New York to Hong Kong 
10 

in a matter of minutes. The applications of this type of travel are 

limitless. 

And Mr. Chairman, I know you are going to more formally introduce our witnesses in just a minute, but I want to mention a couple 

of items about them as well. 

One of our witnesses today is Mr. Dennis Tito, Chairman of the 

Inspiration Mars Foundation. This foundation is the type of private 

space endeavor we should encourage. Their mission to send humans to orbit Mars in eight years or less, using mostly existing 

technology, might well catch the public’s imagination. 

We are also pleased to have Mr. Stuart Witt, CEO of the Mojave 

Air and Space Port and a former test pilot and Top Gun with us 

today as well. There are exciting things happening in the Mojave 

Desert, and I have been there myself. The work of private companies and the space port add great value to our Nation’s space assets. 

Our final witness represents an often-overlooked part of the commercial space industry that has actually been around for a long 

time. Patricia Cooper is the President of the Satellite Industry Association, and the commercial satellite industry provides many of 

our modern conveniences and we are grateful for her perspective 

as well. 

I look forward to today’s hearing and to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to develop policies that encourage 

the growth of the commercial space industry. 

Thank you Mr. Chairman for the time, and I yield back. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Smith follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY

CHAIRMAN LAMAR S. SMITH

Thank you Chairman Palazzo for holding this hearing. And I thank the witnesses 

for being here to share their expertise on this topic.It’s appropriate to have Representative McCarthy join us today to discuss his bill, H.R. 3038, the SOARS Act. 

This legislation seeks to streamline the regulatory process. 

It also amends parts of the Commercial Space Launch Act to provide clarity regarding new systems and how they are defined. Reducing red tape for our space entrepreneurs is a necessary step to ensuring their continued growth. 

The commercial space industry offers improvements to the quality of life for every 

person on the planet. The discoveries and applications that have come from space 

technology number in the hundreds. 

The storied past of American ingenuity and exceptionalism is filled with examples 

of entrepreneurs who pushed the boundaries of the possible. The commercial space 

industry relies on this same creative spirit. 

America has always been a nation of innovators and explorers. We continue to remain on the forefront of new discoveries and technologies. 

This industry could yield results that blur the lines between science fiction and 

science fact. Students of tomorrow could go to college to study a whole new field 

that resulted from the development of private space exploration. 

Perhaps in the next 20 years we will see new technologies and business models 

that result in private space laboratories. 

For example, advances in the suborbital space industry could yield the potential 

to send a package—or people—from New York to Hong Kong in a matter of minutes. 

The applications of this type of travel are limitless. 

One of our witnesses today is Mr. Dennis Tito, Chairman of the Inspiration Mars 

Foundation. This foundation is the type of private space endeavor we should encourage. Their mission to send humans to orbit Mars in eight years or less, using mostly 

existing technology, might well catch the public’s imagination. 
11 

We are also pleased to have Mr. Stuart Witt, CEO of the Mojave Air and Space 

Port. There are exciting things happening in the Mojave Desert. The work of private 

companies and the space port add great value to our nation’s space assets. 

Our final witness represents an often overlooked part of the commercial space industry that has actually been around for a long time. Ms. Patricia Cooper is the 

President of the Satellite Industry Association. The commercial satellite industry 

provides many of our modern conveniences and we are grateful for her perspective 

as well. 

I look forward to today’s hearing and to working with my colleagues on both sides 

of the aisle to develop policies that encourage the growth of the commercial space 

industry. 

Thank you Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you, Chairman Smith. If there are 

Members who wish to submit additional opening statements, your 

statements will be added to the record at this point. 

Chairman SMITH. Mr. Chairman, may I asked to be recognized 

just for a second more? I want to apologize to the witnesses and 

express my regret that another committee that I serve on is having 

a mark-up, and I am going to have to leave soon for that markup so regret I won’t be able to be here the whole time. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you, Chairman Smith. At this time 

we are just going to take a brief respite as we await the Majority 

Whip’s arrival. 

[Recess.] 

Chairman PALAZZO. At this time I would like to introduce our 

first witness, The Honorable Kevin McCarthy, the Majority Whip 

of the House of Representatives and the Representative from California’s 23rd District. Mr. McCarthy, your spoken testimony is limited to five minutes. Your written testimony will be included in the 

record of the hearing. I now recognize our first witness, Mr. McCarthy for five minutes. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. KEVIN MCCARTHY, MAJORITY WHIP, 

A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF 

CALIFORNIA 

Hon. MCCARTHY. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding 

this important hearing today and for allowing me the opportunity 

to testify in support of commercial space and the Suborbital and 

Orbital Advancement and Regulatory Streamlining, the SOARS 

Act. I want to also thank Congressman Posey for working with me 

to introduce this important legislation and his support for commercial space. 

America is built on a strong heritage of exploration, discovery, 

and innovation. From President Thomas Jefferson’s commissioning 

of the Lewis and Clark Expedition to exploring the American West, 

to the Transcontinental Railway linking east and west together, to 

the public-private partnership that helped the airline industry 

grow to become a safe mode of travel all over the world, to the 

internet, which has generated as much economic growth in 15 

years as the Industrial Revolution did in 50. 

Space, like the internet before the dot-com boom of the 1990s, 

was originally a government-run enterprise. Many believe that the 

commercial spaceflight is poised to have its own dot-com moment 

in the near future. NASA’s Commercial Crew and Cargo program 

alone has already created thousands of high-quality jobs here in 

America, including many at the NASA Dryden Flight Research 
12 

Center, which I represent. My district is also home to Mojave Air 

and Space Port where many commercial spaceflight companies 

have located to research, develop, and test their hardware that will 

soon take Americans back to space. 

This is why I support the commercial spaceflight industry: the 

creation of thousands of good paying jobs on U.S. soil and the continuation of America’s legacy in space exploration and innovative 

technologies. Think about this: Over the last 50 years, about 500 

humans have been to space. With the commercial space market, 

the number could double over the next ten years with the government only serving as a customer. The next U.S. astronauts to fly 

to space on American rockets will do so because of this new model. 

The use of innovative public-private partnerships offers the government new ways of solving problems. A study shows these partnerships benefit the taxpayer, by providing space services at nearly 

1/10 the cost of traditional contracting methods, getting results for 

less money, getting innovation, growth, and risk-sharing in the private sector. As NASA leads continued exploration missions and related technology development, entrepreneurs will follow, spending 

their own money and creating new industries. 

However, it is up to us as legislators to ensure our current regulatory environment is appropriate for the needs of the 21st Century 

and to make sure safety is paramount in the commercial 

spaceflight industry’s endeavors. This is why I introduced H.R. 

3038 to ensure that the U.S. commercial spaceflight industry has 

a clear path ahead as it continues to innovate and generate highquality American manufacturing jobs. A robust commercial space 

industry will also help attract students to the STEM fields of education by inspiring the next generation to literally reach for the 

stars. 

The goal of this bill is to streamline the regulatory process for 

commercial spacecraft, ensuring that Americans remain a leader in 

commercial spaceflight, while providing the Secretary of Transportation the necessary tools to help the industry operate safely. The 

commercial spaceflight industry is one of our newest, fastest-growing, and most innovative industries, and I am proud that the Dryden Flight Research Center and the Mojave Air and Space Port are 

leading the way. 

And if we take the right steps, we won’t be just launching rockets, we will be launching new careers, new industries, and new economic opportunities. Whenever I visit these facilities—and I will 

tell you, when you hear from Stu Witt later—I go to Mojave Air 

more than any place else in my district because it is innovative, it 

is fast-moving and it is ever-changing. It is not just changing for 

California and the United States. It is changing the world. And we 

are doing it in a private-public partnership that has been seen no 

other place. 

So the real possibilities will continue to grow. Again, you will 

hear from Mojave’s Executive Director, Stu Witt, who is also testifying today. But this legislation, along with Congressman Posey is 

very simple. It is streamlining to make sure we keep the safety but 

also maintain the growth and the leadership for America in 

spaceflight. 
13 

Mr. Chairman, thank you for allowing me to testify today, and 

I yield back my time. 

[The prepared statement of Hon. McCarthy follows:] 
14 
15 
16 
17 

Chairman PALAZZO. I thank Mr. McCarthy for his valuable testimony. The witness is excused, and we will move to our second 

panel. 

Hon. MCCARTHY. Thank you. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Our first witness is Ms. Patricia Cooper, 

President of the Satellite Industry Association. Our second witness 

is Mr. Stuart Witt, CEO and General Manager of the Mojave Air 

and Space Port, and our third witness is Mr. Dennis Tito, Chairman of the Inspiration Mars Foundation. 

As our witnesses should know, spoken testimony is limited to 

five minutes each after which Members of the Committee have five 

minutes each to ask questions. Your written testimony will be included in the record of the hearing. 

I now recognize our first witness, Ms. Cooper, for five minutes. 

TESTIMONY OF MS. PATRICIA COOPER, PRESIDENT, 

SATELLITE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION 

Ms. COOPER. Mr. Chairman, distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting the Satellite Industry Association 

to testify today on Commercial Space. 

As the President of SIA, I am pleased to represent here the unified voice of the Nation’s satellite industry including satellite operators, manufacturers, launch companies and service and ground 

equipment providers. 

Our sector pioneered the commercialization of space. Just over 50 

years ago, Telstar 1 was launched as the first privately owned satellite. Today, fleets of satellites ring the globe, owned and operated 

by private companies from around the world. 

For the past 16 years, SIA has been tracking our sector’s performance in an annual State of the Satellite Industry Report. Our 

most recent report, issued in October, showed global satellite industry revenues of nearly $190 billion last year, more than 60 percent of the world’s entire space sector. The United States represents just under 45 percent of the global satellite industry, and 

U.S. satellite companies employ more than 225,000 Americans 

across all sectors. 

Commercial satellites are used to deliver services to every ZIP 

code in the United States and every continent. Satellite services directly for consumers are the engine driving industry’s overall 

growth. Satellite TV services alone earned nearly $90 billion in 

global revenue last year, joined with satellite radio, satellite 

broadband and new services like in-flight broadband for airline 

passengers. 

Satellites also deliver hundreds of channels of media and broadcasting content everywhere as seen in the iconic tagline live via 

satellite and the ubiquitous satellite news truck. 

Behind the scenes we also link far-flung businesses, extend cellular and telecom networks, power emergency communications for 

first responders and military communications for national security, 

and capture the Earth with remote-sensing imagery used for everything from agriculture to humanitarian assistance and Google 

Earth. 

Satellites are an instant infrastructure that is reliably available 

every day, everywhere around the world, and we look to govern-
18 

ments to maintain certain policy and market conditions to sustain 

our industry and pave the way for our growth and ongoing innovation. 

I would like to highlight here four key aspects that drive the way 

we think about government policies. First, the satellite industry 

has particularly long business horizons. Satellite orders are typically placed two years before they are launched, and once on orbit 

last about 15 years. 

While economic and competitive conditions shift, satellite companies thrive with consistent regulatory and business environments. 

We look for swift and effective licensing for satellites and ground 

terminals and stable regulatory fees. Dramatic changes in government regulations and policies simply put at risk the hundreds of 

millions of dollars required to finance the manufacture, launch and 

operation of a commercial satellite. 

Second, the satellite industry is inherently international. We 

serve entire continents or hemispheres, and U.S. satellite manufacturers compete in a dynamic global marketplace. As a result, international policies and fair trade rules are essential. Congress recently took an important step to support U.S. satellite exports 

when it passed the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act which 

permits needed updates to the U.S. export controls on satellite 

technologies. These reforms, which are now being implemented by 

the Executive Branch, will assist the long-term competitiveness of 

U.S. satellite manufacturers, and for that we offer our appreciation. 

Third, the satellite industry relies on radio frequency spectrum. 

Not only is spectrum used to fly our satellites but it is the lifeblood 

of the vast array of communication services provided via satellite. 

Without spectrum satellites simply would not function. 

The telecommunications industry is currently being consumed by 

a debate over how to allocate spectrum, and satellite frequencies 

are among those targeted for sharing or wholesale repurposing. 

The satellite industry has long supported efficient and sensible satellite spectrum policies, but changes require respect for existing 

critical services and an understanding of the demands of communicating with spacecraft tens of thousands of miles away. Shifts in 

spectrum policy must be careful, objective and fact-driven to avert 

serious implications for satellite systems. 

Finally, the satellite industry is keenly focused on managing 

risk. Satellites must be robust enough to navigate a technically 

challenging launch campaign and survive the harsh environments 

of outer space. We have close ties with the financial and insurance 

industries that allow us to mitigate these unique risks and meet 

the high, up-front costs of these satellite projects. While most financing is provided by the private sector and rightfully so, governments around the world have also stepped in to provide export 

credit financing for international sales of satellites. SIA encourages 

Congress to continue to support a strong U.S. Export/Import Bank 

to allow U.S. manufacturers to compete internationally. 

Finally, governments have offered indemnification against lawsuits resulting from catastrophic launch failures. Although this protection has never been drawn upon, the U.S. Government should 

offer safeguards comparable to other leading space-faring nations. 
19 

SIA strongly supports extending this regime for a minimum of ten 

years if not permanently. 

In our more than 50 years of experience the satellite industry 

has harnessed the power of space to serve national security, connect every corner of the globe and deliver entertainment to people 

on every continent. We fly 1/3 of the satellites on orbit and have 

posted ten percent average annual growth over the past decade, 

sustaining a robust worldwide space economy. The satellite industry is proud to lead the way for the safe, successful and sustained 

commercialization of space. 

Mr. Chairman, distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, this 

concludes my testimony. On behalf of the members of the Satellite 

Industry Association, thank you for the opportunity to testify, and 

I look forward to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Cooper follows:] 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you, Ms. Cooper. I now recognize our 

next witness, Mr. Witt. 

TESTIMONY OF MR. STUART WITT, 

CEO AND GENERAL MANAGER, 

MOJAVE AIR AND SPACE PORT 

Mr. WITT. Chairman Palazzo, Representative Bonamici, Chairman Smith, Mr. McCarthy, Members of the Subcommittee, I want 

to thank you for the opportunity of addressing you this morning 

and the invitation to Congress. 

My name is Stuart Witt, and I am the CEO of the Mojave Air 

and Space Port located in southeast Kern County, California. 

Today our topic is America’s commercial space industry, and my 

message to you from the high desert is that American engineers 

and entrepreneurs in Mojave and other places across this great Nation are successfully revolutionizing America’s future in space. My 

story today is 100% a good news story that didn’t just happen. This 

Committee enacted into law a Commercial Space Launch Amendments Act in 2004 sponsored by Mr. Rohrabacher that created an 

informed consent regime for commercial human space flight. By 

giving us permission to take risks, you enabled us to create a new 

industry which is freeing up NASA and others to pioneer deep 

space exploration. 

I personally want to thank Committee Members Takano, Mr. 

Rohrabacher, Mr. Bridenstine and Chairman Smith who have 

made visits to Mojave on multiple occasions and witnessed firsthand the private sector innovations I am addressing today. 

Chairman Palazzo has requested my attention to four specific 

questions which I will answer in summary here, but I have gone 

into far greater detail in my written testimony. 

Question number one. Please summarize the work underway by 

commercial space companies at Mojave Air and Space Port. There 

is enormous interest in what we offer. Many have asked me, how 

did I manage to attract firms to Mojave over the past 12 years 

doing orbital research, suborbital research and development, deep 

space propulsion system development, and specifically demonstrated by entrepreneurs and high net-worth investors. My response is simple. In a word, I offer permission. We don’t advertise. 

We just deliver, just as our tenants deliver. We set reasonable constraints, provide value-added services to test operators and allow 

the developers to conduct and manage their own programs with remarkable results. What sounds incredibly simple is actually in 

practice somewhat complex and very rigorous. But again, the results speak for themselves. 

Mojave Air and Space Port currently has 17 firms engaged in 

commercial space research leading to production of manned and 

unmanned space systems with 19 separate rocket test sites. Mojave 

now hosts 156 separate business contracts employing nearly 3,000 

professionals. Specific emphasis is centered on green, non-toxic, liquid and hybrid rocket propulsion systems. Privately funded complete launch systems to orbit and suborbit and components for such 

systems are in development for commercial and government clients. 
31 

Question number two. The potential future suborbital space market? To your question, Mr. Chairman, Mojave is far more than suborbital. Mojave entered this game in the orbital market and found 

a way to back in to the suborbital market. I view this discussion 

similar to the discussion the world had about steam 175 years ago. 

Obviously investors knew it had potential, but they didn’t know the 

answer to the basic question you ask. Today the majority of the 

world’s power systems are based on steam. We all know the investment in suborbital tourism. It is in the press every day. But beyond 

that is an emerging new interest being led by the world’s high networth investors who are visiting Mojave because they know investment in hypersonic, high mach business travel, is ripe for suborbit. 

This is where I see the needle moving, and my written testimony 

goes into far greater detail on the subject. 

Question three. The challenges and opportunities faced by the 

suborbital space market. A. The industry needs regulatory certainty, but the learning period restriction on unsubstantiated safety regulations expires in less than two years and the risk-sharing 

indemnification regime expires at the end of next month. For regulatory certainty, extension of both is required now. 

The Administration’s proposed changes to ITAR pose a restriction to extending the peaceful exploration of space to a thirsty 

world market seeking suborbit vehicles. ITAR as it currently 

stands is more than a speed bump to expanding the markets internationally. 

Question four, your thoughts on H.R. 3038, the Suborbital and 

Orbital Advancement and Regulatory Streamlining Act. I strongly 

support two elements of H.R. 3038 contained in Section 2, but the 

third element, contained in Section 3, to me is ambiguous and requires further discussion and clarity. 

From my 44 years as a professional aviator, test pilot and business executive if taken at current words, it may take the FAA and 

the industry into that mysterious land of unintended consequences 

if we don’t spend just a little time and get it right. 

Again, I thank you for your invitation to present the good news 

coming out of Mojave, and I look forward to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Witt follows:] 
32 
33 
34 
35 
36 
37 
38 
39 
40 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you, Mr. Witt. I now recognize our 

final witness, Mr. Tito. 

TESTIMONY OF MR. DENNIS TITO, CHAIRMAN, 

INSPIRATION MARS FOUNDATION 

Mr. TITO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Members of 

the Subcommittee. I can’t think of a better way to begin today’s 

discussion— 

Chairman PALAZZO. Your mike, please, if you can turn it on? 

Mr. TITO. Thank you. I can’t think of a better way to begin today’s discussion on the public-private ventures in space than to 

propose one. 

At the Inspiration Mars Foundation, we have designed the architecture for a mission carrying two astronauts to the far side of 

Mars and back. It would be a voyage of around 800 million miles 

around the Sun in 501 days. We propose to do this in collaboration 

with NASA as a partner in a NASA mission in the name of America and for the good of humanity. The endeavor is not motivated 

by business desires but to inspire Americans in a bold adventure 

in space that reinvigorates space exploration. In fact, the capabilities developed through private funding belong to NASA for this and 

future missions. The partnership is a new model for a space mission. It is not the model of traditional contracts or subsidies for vehicle developments, although these models are imbedded in the 

NASA programs to be leveraged for this mission. It is a philanthropic partnership with government to augment resources and 

achieve even greater goals than is possible otherwise. Philanthropy 

has historically benefitted society beyond what governments can afford or justify. What better use is there for private funding than 

to challenge the imaginations of people all over the world by providing the spark that invigorates the space program to further 

human destiny, to learn more and improve our civilization. Just as 

exciting times in the space program have motivated young people 

to study math, science and engineering in the past, benefitting all 

parts of U.S. industry, this mission will surely provide that benefit. 

No longer is a Mars flyby mission just one more theoretical big 

idea. It can be done, not in a matter of decades, but in a few years. 

Moreover, the mission might just show the way for a new model 

for joint effort and financing. It would attract significant private 

funding, while enabling NASA to do what it does best, and to confirm that the United States is the unquestioned leader in space. 

The work of this Subcommittee has helped to prepare the way 

with the 2010 authorization. That gave NASA the Space Launch 

System, the Orion program, and new commercial capabilities. We 

propose to combine all of these elements, as we have explained in 

the Architecture Study Report released this week. 

We can accomplish this flyby within a set launch schedule using 

rockets, systems, hardware already in testing and meeting established objectives that is a part of space policy for sending people 

to explore Mars. 

But if the technology, the rockets, and the systems are all virtually there, why not move this mission to the here and now and 

not wait until the ’30s? 
41 

There is a compelling reason to do that—in a word, opportunity. 

Every 15 years or so there is a rare planetary alignment relying 

on the gravitational forces of Mars, Sun, and Earth. An American 

spacecraft would have to be on its way in the first days of 2018. 

Otherwise, we are looking at another 15 years before that alignment happens again. 

If we need a Plan B, there is a mission 80 days longer that flies 

behind Venus before going to Mars, being a unique trajectory that 

could be flown in 2021. However by then, another country, almost 

surely China, will have seen our missed opportunity and taken the 

lead for themselves. 

May I offer a frank word to the Subcommittee? The United 

States will carry out a flyby mission or we will watch as others do 

it. If America is ever going to do a flyby mission of Mars then we 

are going to have to do it in 2018. Given the Russian recognition 

and value of accomplishments in human space exploration, they 

have announced that they will recommercialize the Energia rocket 

and make that available. They also have upgrades to their capabilities which would allow them to fly in 2017. 

We feel it is our civic duty to bring this attention to the executive 

and legislative branches of government. 

In 2019, it will be 50 years since we landed on the Moon. Let us 

hope that we can look back and say that we have accomplished 

something in that 50 years. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman 

and the Subcommittee, and I would be happy to answer your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Tito follows:] 
42 
43 
44 
45 
46 
47 
48 
49 
50 
51 
52 
53 
54 
55 
56 
57 
58 
59 
60 
61 
62 
63 
64 
65 
66 
67 
68 
69 
70 
71 
72 
73 
74 
75 
76 
77 
78 
79 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you, Mr. Tito. I thank the witnesses 

for being available for questioning today, reminding Members that 

Committee rules limit questioning to five minutes. The Chair will 

at this point open the round of questions. The Chair recognizes 

himself for five minutes. 

The current third-party liability risk-sharing regime has been in 

place for almost two decades. The purpose of this regime was to assist a nascent industry that needed a backstop for possible thirdparty claims in the event of an accident. Please explain to the Committee why the indemnification regime is still necessary and what 

reforms to the current regimes are needed. Mr. Witt, Ms. Cooper, 

you briefly touched on this topic. Will you please explain in detail 

or elaborate in detail? Thank you. Ms. Cooper? 

Ms. COOPER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Commercial Space 

Launch Act risk management provision is absolutely essential and 

an appropriate use for government in the view of the members of 

the Satellite Industry Association. We strongly recommend that it 

be renewed before it expires. 

The government’s role in safeguarding for launch services is only 

at a very extraordinary circumstance. Under the FAA rules and the 

rules set out under the Launch Act, launch providers themselves 

are responsible for the bulk of damages that might occur if the unthinkable were to happen. The FAA sets a maximum probable loss 

limit of $500 million and expects their licensees to take responsibility for those damages, usually in the form of private launch insurance. 

And I would note that those maximum probable losses cover not 

only all parties involved in the launch, including third parties, but 

also damages to U.S. Government property. 

Damages in excess of that maximum probable loss limit of $500 

million up to a cap of $1.5 million are what are at stake here in 

this launch liability provision. This was not just to protect a nascent industry but to ensure that the risk of launching a satellite 

or any other payload didn’t require the company to pretty much bet 

the company every time they launched. This allowed the largest, 

most catastrophic damages to be safeguarded by the government. 

I would note that this is appropriate. I looked back a little bit 

in 1988 when the first Commercial Space Launch Act was passed. 

The environment today in the marketplace with not only several 

commercial launch companies looking at launching satellites but 

also the extraordinary proliferation of interest and investment and 

exploration of commercial launch for other purposes is an environment far more like the 1988 environment than it was five years 

ago. 

I would also note that international competition is far more intense, and other governments, the hosts of those other launch providers, offer comparable safeguards from significant damage. 

And finally, I would just note that the U.S. Government itself 

carries liability that it has taken on under several treaties, the 

Outer Space Treaty, the Space Liability Treaty, and these are satisfied by the commercial space launch indemnification provisions, 

and we certainly think that it is an appropriate role for government and one that this Committee we hope will support extending. 

Thank you. 
80 

Mr. WITT. Mr. Chair? I have to learn my protocols. Mr. Chairman, this particular question to me is just foundational of the right 

way to do business. There seems to be a perception and then there 

is a reality, and the perception is that there is no skin in the game 

on the part of the operators. And the reality is, the way the law 

is written, there is $500 million at stake to the operator, plus they 

play this little game every day in Mojave called let us bet the company every time they fly. There is certainly no motivation to fail. 

There is certainly a motivation to be rigorous. But for a license 

launch, when it comes down to actually launching, the FAA, the 

Federal Government, makes the determination of the maximum 

probable loss and caps it, and it is the operator that has to find 

the insurance or post a bond if you will that they have financial 

solvency to cover any losses up to that limit. For 20 years the government has not been placed at risk. If a program that was put in 

place is working that well, I would look for some compelling reason 

to change it. I think it should be extended indefinitely. That is my 

opinion. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Thank you. Mr. Tito, in your testimony you 

talk about a public-private partnership with NASA for a deep space 

mission and that in contrast to past development programs would 

be funded at least in part by private investment. How much do you 

expect this mission to cost private investors? Would those investors 

expect a return on their investment or would they be considered 

donations? And do you intend to ask for NASA for funding, and if 

so, how much do you plan on asking for? 

Mr. TITO. Well, this is a philanthropic effort, so you would not 

consider any contribution an investment. Once a mission was established and ongoing, I think there would be the prospect of raising several hundred million dollars philanthropically but not until 

we actually have a mission on the manifest. 

As far as overall cost over and above what NASA is already 

spending on existing programs, I would say that it would be less 

than $1 billion, and you subtract roughly $300 million which I 

think could be raised philanthropically over the five-year period between now and the end of the mission, it would cost the government about $700 million or about a little over $100 million a year. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Well, thank you. My time is expired. I now 

recognize Ms. Bonamici. 

Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 

you to the witnesses for your testimony. One of the things that I 

have emphasized since joining the Subcommittee last year is the 

importance of educating the public about the benefits of space exploration and justifying the investment which, those of us on this 

Subcommittee all believe in. And one of the things I wanted to 

point out and thank you for, Mr. Witt, is in your testimony talking 

about how there has been this spinoff potential beyond aerospace, 

especially with the discoveries being applied to, for example, conventional internal combustion engines, and I think the more the 

public knows about benefits beyond that in all-important leadership the more that we can convince the public that these are wise 

investments in space. So thank you for bringing that to our attention. 
81 

Ms. Cooper, the commercial satellite industry is one of the first 

commercial space industries and has really seen significant growth 

over the years. So as you consider the range of activities and issues 

being discussed here today, can you tell us from your experience 

what lessons have been learned that could benefit the other emerging space enterprises? 

Ms. COOPER. Thank you. I think the commercial satellite industry in its origin has some similarities to other younger space ventures in that there were assumptions of a government role at the 

outset. There was an assumption that the idea of launching a satellite and building one was too complex, too costly, too risky for an 

individual company or country even to undertake it. 

As the experience grew and the confidence in the capability on 

orbit grew and also as the idea of services and what was the value 

of those satellites grew, companies naturally entered the arena. I 

think that was a critical part for government regulation to establish rules of the road for a competitive environment, to allow enabling an environment, but also to establish how those companies 

would be able to compete with each other and for them what they 

needed. 

For the commercial satellite industry, it is absolutely orbital slots 

which is an international regime managed by the International 

Telecommunications Union but also satellite spectrum which is 

needed not only to manage the spacecraft but also to deliver communication services. 

That is probably our biggest challenge right now is that we have 

become almost so ubiquitous and so relied upon that the communications industry may forget that we are delivering these services 

from 22,000 miles away and that there are significant considerations when you figure out how you might be able to share that 

spectrum. 

I would also just note the other consideration is safety and safety 

of flight. That is a genuine role for government regulation, and I 

think the partnership between industry and government is essential there to establish an understanding of what is in space and an 

understanding of what the private and government actors in space 

are doing for the safety of all in space. Thank you. 

Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you very much. And for all of you, the 

work that your organizations are performing calls for innovation is 

certainly a highly skilled workforce to achieve the goals in certainly 

a competitive environment. So how important is the workforce to 

the growth of commercial space, and from your perspective, what 

is the most important thing we can do to ensure the future viability and sustainability of a workforce that is prepared for this type 

of work? I will start with Mr. Witt. Your thoughts on that? 

Mr. WITT. Ms. Bonamici, that is a great question. That goes right 

to my heart. The last ten years I have served—11 years served on 

a college board, and I have learned a little bit about the education 

process in America. But for the last 20 years in my businesses and 

in my current business, I have required each one of my employees 

to spend four hours a year in a classroom. 

Ms. BONAMICI. That is good. 

Mr. WITT. And to a person. When I had my company here, when 

my current—everybody said only four hours? And I said, just curi-
82 

ous, but how many did you do last year? And we all know the answer to that, don’t we? Zero. And to set a standard in your own 

business and from your seats as Members of Congress, you have 

the opportunity to speak to people all over this Nation all the time. 

You all get invited for public events. People listen to your words, 

your policy and your words. Make it part of your daily speech to 

promote science and technology nationwide in this Nation. Do the 

little things. When you walk into a Masten space system and you— 

and I bring in teachers. We brought in students, but we now found 

out, you know, teachers in classrooms—I think I learned in our discussion at lunch one day—they have all the kids. If we bring them 

in for an hour, we have 100 kids and me for an hour. But these 

teachers have the kids all year long. Bring the teachers in. Spend 

the day with 30 teachers, and they have access to these kids for 

a year. Show them the passion. Show them the people. Take them 

into a Masten space systems and let them ask an engineer, if you 

could talk to your science teacher today in high school, what would 

you tell him? I remember that question specifically. And the kid 

with the wrenches and the T-shirts building a rocket says it would 

have been nice of you to come by my desk every now and then, but 

you are always worried about the lowest kid in the class or the 

brightest kid in the class. But somewhere I was lost in the middle. 

Those are powerful things to learn on the shop floor of a rocket factory. 

But those are lessons we can extend, and you can extend in all 

of your daily activities in lunch rooms. Make it the standard that 

people make every employee that works for them spend four hours 

a year in a classroom. My janitor, who is trilingual, spends four 

hours a year in a classroom. There is a job for every kid, and their 

job is important. 

Ms. BONAMICI. That is great. Thank you very much. I am afraid 

I have run out of time. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman PALAZZO. I now recognize Mr. Rohrabacher. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. I thought I was going to be down the line a 

bit. Well, thank you very much and appreciate the witnesses and 

certainly appreciate the leadership of the Chairman on this, making sure that we focus on this element of America’s space program. 

This element of America’s space program is playing an ever-increasingly vital role. I would like to first of all give my regards to 

Dennis Tito here who years ago took the initiative to show that one 

person could make a difference and could inspire a whole Nation. 

It is one thing to have a group of people working for the government, working together to accomplish something. It is one thing for 

this guy to on his own decide he is going to get something done and 

go out and do it. And I remember the first time I met Mr. Tito. 

We went out for dinner, and the waiter in the restaurant where we 

went asked, ‘‘Aren’t you the guy who went into space?’’ And talk 

about inspiring people. I mean, this was—he was inspiring regular 

Americans out there. Thanks for doing that, Dennis, and not giving 

up on that job of inspiring people. I will hopefully work with you 

on your project. I don’t know if we can get it done, but we will see 

what we can do. And it is inspiring to see you doing this. 

Ms. Cooper, I want to get to some really basics here. One of the 

things that are limiting our ability to use space, commercial space 
83 

and otherwise, is orbital debris. At what point, are we reaching a 

point now where we are going to have to put the lid on what we 

are doing in space because of this problem? 

Ms. COOPER. Thank you, Mr. Rohrabacher. For the commercial 

satellite industry we do not think that the orbital debris environment is limiting our ability to deploy new satellites. It does affect 

our operations. I will say that the commercial satellite industry 

takes extremely seriously its responsibilities to operate in space 

and to assist in the larger question of debris. 

I want to point to a private initiative that many of the satellite 

operators have undertaken called the Space Data Association in 

which a number of satellite companies have pooled their resources 

to explain where they are in very specific ephemeris data, also to 

share information about what they see on orbit and also discuss 

EMI/RFI interference issues. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Well, that is the— 

Ms. COOPER. They share that with the Strategic Command as 

well. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Well, that is very commendable that this is 

happening on a voluntary basis with your industry. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that dealing with the ever-increasing level of 

space debris might be one use of commercial space. There might be 

commercial people, people who commercially would like to go out 

and get the contract to dealing with space debris. And rather than 

simply make this a government program, it could be—we could 

look at it as a potential commercial program. 

And I would also like to—I mentioned—Mr. Tito, I would like to 

mention Jim Muncy who is sitting back behind the panel today 

who never got credit for enormous things that were getting done 

in this Committee and in commercial space. Thank you, Mr. 

Muncy. 

One note about how—Mr. Tito mentioned the Chinese might be 

doing things. I would suggest this, however. The Chinese get a lot 

of their technology by stealing it, and I would hope that we don’t 

let thieves beat us to various important goals in space. But I would 

also hope that we don’t partner with thieves. And until we see reform in China, we should not be partnering in space ventures with 

the world’s worst human rights abuser. 

Finally, Mr. Witt, what would you say—you know, you are right 

there in the front. I just mentioned space debris. Could you give 

us a couple of ideas of where commercial space—are we going to 

have a ride between—are we going to be able to deliver a FedEx 

package yesterday to Tokyo? 

Mr. WITT. It is certainly in the possibility. I think one of the 

Members have recently asked me what is the timeframe for pointto-point suborbit travel, halfway around the world. Is it five years, 

ten years, 50 years? I think the answer is it could be in the tenyear regime. It is more likely going to be in the out years, but we 

certainly ought to be thinking there now. It is time for us to take 

the long view of the future and start setting the stage for policies 

and planning for it today. This is not revolutionary. This is frankly 

evolutionary. It is going from props to jets. Now we are going from 

jets to faster jets and air breathers and using a different band of 
84 

the atmosphere. But it is certainly possible. And I hope it happens 

in my lifetime, Mr. Rohrabacher. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, thank you again for your 

leadership, and let me just note on the last point that was made 

that suborbital space and the development of that for the benefit 

of mankind is being done basically through private investment, and 

that is something that we can be very proud of, that our innovators 

are capitalists. And Mr. Tito, by the way, is the ultimate capitalist 

involved in this, that people are putting their own resources to this 

and suborbital space could change the very nature of transportation and again lead us to a new era of humankind. Thank you 

very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman PALAZZO. I now recognize Mr. Bera. 

Mr. BERA. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, as a 

child who grew up in the 1960s and early ’70s in the heart of the 

space race, obviously it captured our imagination. I think everyone 

in this room who grew up in that era would love to see that sense 

of curiosity, that sense of awe and wonder that inspired multiple 

industries, inspired many of us to go into science and inspired a 

generation. 

The challenge I have right now is my one year in Congress. And 

I will ask the members on the panel, could you in a sentence clearly define what NASA’s mission is today, what we are trying to accomplish in a way that President Kennedy clearly defined what we 

were aspiring to within a specific timeframe and so forth. And, as 

a Member of the Space Committee, I think I have a hard time. So 

I would ask you what our mission is today, the one that inspires 

folks that has been clearly articulated to the public? 

Ms. COOPER. The commercial satellite industry is a little bit adjacent to NASA, so I am going to yield to my colleagues on the 

panel. 

Mr. BERA. Okay. 

Mr. WITT. Sir, it is outside my area of expertise, but I do get 

asked that regularly, and my answer has not changed. America deserves, expects and demands a forward-leaning, well-funded, laserfocused national space agency, focused on the big jobs, the big 

deals. Where the commercial industry should fill gaps, we should 

fill the gaps and we should be allowed to fill those gaps in earnest, 

and it is private enterprise. But we deserve, expect and demand a 

forward-leaning, well-funded laser-focused national space agency. 

Mr. BERA. Mr. Tito? 

Mr. TITO. Well, in 1957 when the Soviets launched Sputnik, that 

changed the world as far as I was concerned and put America in 

the minds of a lot of people in the world as number two technologically. And one of our responses was to form NASA to lead our 

space program. And the role of NASA of course was for scientific 

purposes, to develop technology like the preceding firm NACA did 

for the aircraft industry. But the real mission of NASA at the beginning as we all know was to win the space race. And we did win 

it after ten years, and somehow we don’t have that drive that we 

had 50 years ago. And we may be in a position of having Sputnik 

occur again. Sputnik will be in flight to Mars by either China or 

Russia. 
85 

Mr. BERA. Well, would it be reasonable then to push the administration as well as the NASA Administrator to perhaps define 

manned space travel, human space travel, to Mars within a certain 

timeframe as a mission that the public can grasp that then within 

that context we could look at what is the role of the private sector 

and commercial space travel to help us get there, as well as what 

is the role of the Federal sector in terms of NASA and the funds 

that we would have to appropriate? But you know, again, I would 

challenge the administration as well as the NASA Administrator to 

clearly define that because then it makes our jobs a lot easier to 

say, okay, what framework allows us to both take the public sector 

and the private sector working together in an innovative way to go 

out there, capture the public imagination? 

Mr. TITO. Look, we are at a point where we have to make a decision as a Nation. We can either make a decision to spend a relatively small amount of additional funds to a very expensive 

human exploration program now that does not have a mission and 

make a mission out of it, and be the first to get to Mars, or by not 

making a decision, we will be forfeiting that opportunity. 

Now in 2021, we could get to Mars, but we may not be the only 

ones. It is an interesting mission. It is Venus and Mars, and of 

course, we are proposing a man and a woman. That would make 

a very interesting combination. 

But I think we have to really look at this opportunity very seriously and decide one way or another as to whether the United 

States should pass on it or act on it. 

Mr. BERA. Great. I think that is a great place to end. I will yield 

back. 

Chairman PALAZZO. Just to add, you know, Mr. Bera asked the 

same question a lot of us have been asking ourselves, and we get 

asked it a lot. And I would just like to reiterate that is one of the 

reasons why the NASA Authorization Act is so important. It does 

establish a roadmap for NASA so we can come up with a timeline, 

destinations and focus, laser-like focus and back it up with our resources to achieve that objective. 

At this time I recognize Mr. Bridenstine. 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I would just 

really like to thank the panel. You know, I firmly believe we do 

have an opportunity to advance rocket science and space technology in the private sector in many cases apart from the whimsical budgets of us politicians. And what you guys are doing in that 

area is unique and special, and you are really leading the way and 

I appreciate that very much. 

What I would like to ask Mr. Witt, part of your testimony you 

talked about ITAR, and some of the regulations that are affecting 

the commercial space flight industry, maybe space tourism. Would 

you share with us a little bit about how ITAR is affecting the businesses and the industry at the Mojave Air and Space Port? 

Mr. WITT. Sure, Mr. Bridenstine. Did I get that right? 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WITT. ITAR. If you have a rocket and you have a human attached to that rocket, you are born into ITAR. So you are regulated 

by the International Treaty and Arms Regulations. 
86 

The developers at Mojave, let us just put a name to them, 

Masten, XCOR and Virgin Galactic, all seek to make their industry 

a worldwide industry. They want to take American products and 

extend them around the globe. One of those investors happens to 

be an international investor, Sir Richard Branson. So isn’t it ironic 

that an international investor developing a system in the United 

States currently under current law can’t fly it outside the United 

States? 

I believe we have grown up in a new day. There are new products. We have agreements all around the world with nations that 

want to explore space for peaceful purposes. Space tourism is a 

great example. If I could choose a location where I would like to 

fly, a suborbital space flight, I would like to fly through the aurora 

borealis out of northern Sweden. It is fast. Why not? Fly at night. 

Do something that no one else has done, like Mr. Tito suggests. 

This is what is possible. But unless we find some relief on the 

ITAR regulations and really crack that can open and take a look, 

I don’t think we are going to be able to extend these things internationally and we need to. It is good for American business. 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. When you think about the market for whether 

it is space tourism or private space suborbital science experiments 

and exploration, that market exists in large part outside our own 

country, while it does exist in our own country. Could you give 

maybe an example of how big that market would be if we were able 

to take that market outside the United States? 

Mr. WITT. The Tauri Group is a great place to ask that question. 

I am not an expert in that, but I do know the studies are out there 

and the numbers exist. And I would recommend to the Committee 

that you ask for that, maybe through the CSF. 

But it is a market. Like Mr. Tito said, if we don’t provide the 

services, they are going to buy the services from providers that are 

willing to provide the services. They are out there. 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. Right. 

Mr. WITT. I think we need to be in the game in all corners, and 

I think if you are not trying to find relief—I totally agree with Mr. 

Rohrabacher’s comments. But ITAR is more than a speed bump as 

currently written. 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. When you think about investment in the private space flight industry, we think about high net-worth investors. 

Can you share, what is the resistance or is there resistance to receiving investment from institutional investors? Is it happening, is 

it slow to happen? Can you share a little bit about that? 

Mr. WITT. I don’t have any examples of that currently. The majority of my tenants are the high net-worth investor. Some institutional investing is starting to show up. I have said for years we will 

have an industry when we have an underwriter—— 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. Right. 

Mr. WITT. —and we have Wall Street. We are starting to show 

signs of both. But I think it took some successes and namely by 

SpaceX, now Orbital Sciences, now Boeing. It is going to take a 

new day, new players in the system showing enormous successes 

to start drawing in the more institutional, conventional investment. 

And I think it is beginning to happen. 
87 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. And of course, indemnification, which you guys 

are very interested in is a key piece of attracting that kind of institutional investor, is that correct? 

Mr. WITT. It brings certainty to the game, absolutely. And I 

think we look to the government to be a good partner. We can’t 

keep moving the goal posts or changing the rules. The indemnification regime is sound policy. It has worked. 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. Right. 

Mr. WITT. And the operators have the skin in the game first, and 

the government portion has never been used. 

Mr. BRIDENSTINE. Roger that. Thank you. I yield back. 

Chairman PALAZZO. I now recognize Mr. Veasey. 

Mr. VEASEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask you a little 

bit about commercial space activities and pop culture. I know that 

you probably have saw that Lady Gaga was going to be the first 

person to perform in space. I think that is going to happen sometime in 2015, and I believe she is going to—I think it is in conjunction with Richard Branson. I was just wondering what you thought 

of pop culture and how maybe it can play a role in sort of aiding 

or just getting people more interested in what is going on in commercial space travel. 

Mr. WITT. Is that for me, Mr. Veasey? 

Mr. VEASEY. Yes. 

Mr. WITT. Okay. Lady Gaga. Okay. I got to admit, I didn’t know 

I was going to get this question in front of Congress. 

I will tell you, I do have an answer for that. I think you raise 

a valid question. When you talk about the totality of an industry, 

industries usually come along with different things like fashion, 

food, housing, all those certain elements are key to commercial 

space. What will you take? What provisions do you need? How long 

do you plan to be on this journey? What do you wear? All these 

questions. 

But the industry on the ground around that tends to mirror 

trends. And I don’t know anything about the Lady Gaga, Sir Richard Branson thing you mentioned. It is a little out of scope for Mojave. But I do know that fashion design and pop culture—I mean, 

Rocket Man. 

Mr. VEASEY. Elton John. 

Mr. WITT. Elton John. 

Mr. VEASEY. Right. 

Mr. WITT. I mean, there you go. I play it every time we launch 

a rocket. So it is certainly important to capture the young people 

and to get them engaged. It certainly has a role, and I think it is 

greater than just the pop culture. It is more fashion, design, food, 

the whole industry. 

Mr. VEASEY. Do you think there is anything that NASA could 

possibly learn as a—you know, because one of the things about 

Richard Branson, like for instance even in commercial air travel, 

if you go to his airline, whenever you are getting your ticket at the 

kiosk, they are playing Red Hot Chili Peppers, there is a different 

sort of a vibe. And obviously some of the things that they are doing 

with pop culture and this Lady Gaga flight is really interesting. 

Do you think that is something that NASA can learn in order to 

maybe inspire a lot of young people that may be interested in space 
88 

travel or may even maybe be able to sort of catapult space travel 

to what it probably was like back in the 1970s and early ’80s for 

a lot of young people? 

Mr. WITT. It is possible, but it is an engineering organization, 

and engineers don’t tend to think in terms of pop culture. It doesn’t 

come oozing out of them naturally. But certainly NASA could use 

a dose of marketing skills that come from the Branson organization. They are expert at that and selling the brand and selling the 

concept. You would think that the NASA experience that I grew up 

with and watched on TV that brought me into this industry, it 

could use a jolt of reinvention. And what I think you are really asking is what is the value to the buying public? If you have a choice 

of buying airlines—if you have ridden on a Virgin flight, they are 

different, they are fun. That brings value to exchanging money for 

your ticket. Maybe there is a value proposition that needs to be revisited in the rebranding, rediscovery of the future NASA. 

Mr. VEASEY. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time. 

Chairman PALAZZO. I now recognize Mr. Schweikert. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, though I don’t 

know if I am going to be able to reach the heights of pop culture 

sort of inquiry, but I guess I could embarrass my wife and go, who 

is Lady Gaga? 

But in all sincerity, okay, privatization, private ventures, now 

the next question is on the financing, the access to capital. When 

I look at much of what I see in the private investments and what 

is going on in Mojave, I don’t want to—well, I am going to refer 

to it somewhat as vanity capital. You know, some of the ventures 

are funded substantially with a handful of high net-worth individuals, with great hopes and dreams because it is their interest, their 

hobby. Where are we going on the financing mechanisms where the 

investment side—now, we know the satellite industry now has 

some terrific rates of return. Where is the next level of investment 

where I see an investment index that is where it is a more referred 

to as sort of egalitarian investment mechanic? How far away? 

Please, give me some concepts of where the money is going and 

coming from. 

Mr. TITO. About ten years ago I actually did consider making an 

investment in one of those organizations that you referred to at 

Mojave, and somehow I just wasn’t able to pencil it together as an 

investment that would provide return on investment given the risk 

involved. And one of the problems with investing in space programs 

is that you have to develop a business model, and the business 

model is how much are people going to pay to participate in the 

sort of mission? And as you know, there were seven people that 

paid to fly orbiting the Earth on the Space Station with the Russians at a fairly high price. And you know, that market is limited. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. And maybe part of this is for Ms. Cooper. We 

do now see I guess a series of very standardized structured investments to finance communication satellites, satellites that drive 

data. From your view of the world from the satellite industry, is 

that the future for other types of financing mechanisms? 

Ms. COOPER. Thank you. Certainly the experience in the commercial satellite industry is three parts, inspiration, the creative aspects, which sometimes comes from governments or countries or 
89 

multilateral groups. But the satellite industry certainly has had individual high net-worth investors, like Rene Anselmo who founded 

PanAmSat, the first company I worked at, —— 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. But literally—your third? 

Ms. COOPER. And then you have to—if I may go then to the second piece which is you have to show a certain technical capability 

to deliver the service. And finally, you have to close a business case 

to show how you are going to sustain what is typically a high, upfront investment cost. That, at that third phase, on a sustainable 

rate of return kind of approach is where the more traditional investors respond. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Yeah, I mean, let us say it was this afternoon, 

and we decided that I am putting money into a satellite. My understanding is most satellite launches are sponsored. It is, you know, 

we are a company. It is communication. We need 40 percent of the 

bandwidth capacity. The rest will be sold off. The ability to—do 

they sell interest in that? Could I find an exchange or a broker or 

a platform to buy and sell and finance that launch? 

Ms. COOPER. I am not aware of any exchanges for the launch. 

What I can say is that the commercial satellite piece of it—— 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. And when I say that I mean the whole package. 

Ms. COOPER. The commercial satellite nowadays is almost—the 

financial environments reward a satellite with an established, prelaunch customer base. Often as much as 80 percent of the satellite’s capability is booked pre-launch. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Okay. 

Ms. COOPER. And then the excess of that is sold after launch, 

after the satellite has been put in orbit over the course of its 15- 

year lifespan. There are certainly satellites that are speculative, 

that are built with a customer base to be determined. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. I would like to learn more about that because 

a year ago I was approached by some folks that literally wanted 

to set up—the closest thing I could refer to it is like a REIT that 

would be based in financing, the construction, the maintenance, the 

launch of the satellite and you know, literally selling its bandwidth. 

Mr. Chairman, with that I yield back. 

Chairman PALAZZO. I now recognize Ms. Edwards. 

Ms. EDWARDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very much to Ms. Bonamici for sitting in for 

me earlier. I had a conflict. I really appreciate our witnesses here 

today. Mr. Tito, it is good to see you again. 

I want to reiterate, and I know my statements has been submitted for the record, but I want to reiterate to Chairman Palazzo 

my commitment to working with him and with the Chairman and 

the Ranking Member for a clean one year extension of the commercial launch indemnification provisions, and I hope that over this 

next year we really will take to the task of doing the kind of oversight hearings that we need to give the commercial space industry, 

the kind of certainty that we need with respect to indemnification, 

and we can only do that if we get the FAA in here and get experts 

in so that we can look at the future environment and climate with 
90 

respect to commercial activity. But I do support a clean one-year 

extension as we are approaching that date of December 31. 

To all of the panelists, I think that much of what we think of as 

commercial space really involves a lot of significant government 

contribution, and sometimes we don’t hear that. And in fact, the 

delineation between public and private appears increasingly 

blurred. As somebody who came out of NASA, I think it has always 

been a little blurred, and that is okay. But how should Congress 

and its oversight role look at the role of public-private relationships 

to ensure that both taxpayers and commercial entities’ interest are 

appropriately considered? And then I would like each of you if you 

would give me an indication as to whether you know how much in 

fact taxpayers have contributed to the current commercial environment? 

Ms. COOPER. For the commercial satellite sector, there is not a 

taxpayer contribution. These are privately financed, privately 

launched, privately operated satellites. Obviously there is government regulatory regimes that license and oversee those. It is my 

understanding at the FCC for example that those license fees are 

cost-based in terms of the agencies. 

Ms. EDWARDS. What about the technology that went into the 

commercial satellite industry? Any idea of the contribution of 

NASA or any of our agencies in terms of their contribution? 

Ms. COOPER. I am not aware of any government programs to develop commercial satellite technology. There certainly is an interplay between the commercial satellite sector and the broader space 

enterprise where products that are developed in the NASA context 

may later be commercialized. 

Ms. EDWARDS. Okay. Mr. Tito, in the Architecture Report that is 

attached to your statement it says that, ‘‘perhaps several hundred 

million dollars in new Federal spending could make this mission 

happen.’’ Are you suggesting that the mission couldn’t be undertaken without additional NASA funding? And is there evidence in 

the current fiscal environment that those several hundred million 

dollars would be available? 

Mr. TITO. Well, right now I don’t see a lot of evidence that money 

is available. We do have an opportunity in four years, but we have 

an opportunity in eight years and a lot can happen. 

Ms. EDWARDS. So when you say several hundred million dollars would be required from NASA. Is that $100 million? Is it $900 million? 

Mr. TITO. Well, I think initially we are talking about per year 

basis, so it might be $100 to 200 million a year would be needed 

to fund the dual use upper stage which the Nation needs anyway 

to provide heavy lift capability. So that would be one project that 

would have to take place. 

Ms. EDWARDS. And that would require taxpayer support, right? 

Mr. TITO. Yes. 

Ms. EDWARDS. Okay. 

Mr. TITO. And it is already planned, but it is not funded yet over 

the longer time period. 

Ms. EDWARDS. And Mr. Witt, do you have an idea of how much 

taxpayer support has gone into the commercial activities that you 

are engaged in or that others of your partners are? 
91 

Mr. WITT. Well, Ms. Edwards, I can only speak to Mojave Air 

and Space Port. We are a California special district, so we are a 

quasi-government entity that can qualify for Federal grants from 

the FAA and others. And I think I gave that to the committee, and 

I could give you a number but the exact number was submitted in 

my packet. But it was a good question, and we did extend a runway and we bought a fire truck. So we are talking in terms of a 

couple million dollars. But my organization, if we don’t make 

money, I don’t pay my employees. I don’t get any operational funds 

from anyone. I have to run as a business. And so there has been 

some public investment, but in terms of my total operation, it is 

small. 

Ms. EDWARDS. And I will close, Mr. Chairman. I guess the point 

is—and I don’t mind that and I really do understand the point of 

the commercial space industry is to make money. But I think sometimes the public gets confused as though somehow this industry 

would just be off and going on its own without the requisite support of technology and other kinds of development and investment 

that the taxpayers made. And I think we get a great benefit for the 

bargain, but I don’t want to pretend that we can engage in this activity without the hand of the taxpayer in there helping it out. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman PALAZZO. I now recognize Ms. Wilson. 

Ms. WILSON. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a very interesting 

hearing this morning, and bringing in Lady Gaga just made it even 

more exciting for people to look forward to. 

I have a question for Ms. Cooper. In your statement you note the 

satellite industry association support for extending the U.S. commercial launch indemnification regime which expires at the end of 

this year. How in concrete terms would the absence of the indemnification provisions affect the U.S. commercial satellite industry in 

terms of price, market share or revenues? And on what data do you 

base your conclusions? 

Ms. COOPER. Thank you. I don’t have any statistical surveys for 

that question specifically. I will note that the commercial satellite 

sector primarily has not been launched by U.S. launch vehicles 

over the past five years certainly. Those launches are primarily 

held by European or Russian satellite launch operators. But there 

is a great deal of interest in the emerging capabilities of new and 

existing satellite launch providers for the United States. Absent the 

commercial launch indemnification, we expect that the prices for 

launches would have to incorporate additional risk assumed by the 

launch providers, perhaps affecting the competitiveness of those 

U.S. providers in that international launch community. I don’t have 

data on how much—that would be speculation. Thank you. 

Ms. WILSON. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Witt, the SOARS Act seeks 

to introduce a number of provisions to streamline commercial space 

flight. I would like to understand from your perspective what is 

missing from the existing law that needs fixing and how in your 

view the SOARS Act would address those issues. 

Mr. WITT. Okay, Ms. Wilson. The SOARS Act as presented has 

two provisions I believe in Section 2 and one in Section 3, and the 

two in Section 2 basically provide one-stop shopping for an applicant seeking a license to operate and currently—almost have to un-
92 

derstand the FAA to understand the provision in the law. But the 

way the FAA is organized, they have people that manage air traffic 

control, they have people who fund airports, they have people who 

license pilots in aircraft and maintainers. And then they have people who license launches. Well, we have a new day. Now we have 

airplanes, purpose-built airplanes that are stage one that carry a 

rocket aloft and then launch. So you have this hybrid. Where does 

it fit? And it creates again some uncertainty in the current law because we have new developments. And the law just aims to streamline that in Section 2. The Section 3 provision, and it really is a 

great provision, where commercial companies can provide training 

for participants who choose to buy tickets to go to suborbit on commercial lines. It is a mechanism for training these people to make 

them aeronautically adaptable to the flight they are about to take. 

If you can imagine being in a very confined space with six colleagues for an hour to go to space, it would—I think if you spend 

$250,000 or $100,000 for that experience, it is reasonable from a 

business perspective to assume that all of you had similar training 

before the experience so you could handle it physiologically. 

That is what provision three intends to allow. The question I had 

in my testimony was does that belong under AVS at FAA or does 

it belong under AST? When I reasoned myself through that and 

spoke to the experts of which I am probably one with, I had questions about it. I think we could, if we don’t get it right and I think 

it is a good measure—I just want to get it right the first time 

where we are not going down the land of unintended consequences 

because of how you work within the FAA. I think you could leave 

it up to the Administrator or leave it up to the Secretary of Transportation to solve it. I think they will find a way to solve it within 

the Agency. But I think it is a good provision. I just don’t know 

if the way it is written is clean. 

Ms. WILSON. Thank you. 

Mr. WITT. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WILSON. I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairman PALAZZO. All right. At this time without objection the 

Chair recognizes Mr. Takano for five minutes. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate this opportunity. Mr. Witt, I really did enjoy my visit to Space Port. What 

you have there is a tremendous ecosystem of entrepreneurs and researchers, and it calls to mind the early days of Silicon Valley, and 

I wish you well in your enterprise. 

Ms. Cooper, I am curious about your comments about the spectrum. What are you specifically saying that needs to be done? Do 

we need to preserve a certain part of that spectrum for your industry? And tell me, is it not possible for your industry to actually 

compete in an auction for the spectrum vis-&-vis the communication companies? 

Ms. COOPER. The commercial use of radio frequencies spectrum 

is regulated by the FCC and coordinated internationally with the 

International Telecommunications Union. There are existing allocations for satellite services of a variety of different ways. It is enormously complex. We have a number of different swaths of the radio 

spectrum. 
93 

The issue today comes from this press towards trying to find additional spectrum to allow new services, more broadband to your 

mobile phone, more services throughout the telecommunications 

world. And how can we share and make efficient use of that spectrum. The concern that the satellite industry has is that those 

ideas of collaborating and sharing frequencies need to be thought 

of a little differently for satellite services. We need very clean spectrum to communicate so far away, and we file regularly at the FCC 

and engage regularly with both—the FCC is the regulator of commercial spectrum and NTIA at Commerce, the regulator of the Federal spectrum—to make sure that if they are considering adding 

another unlicensed user or co-primary or secondary user in the frequencies we are already using, have invested in it and have spacecraft, you know, spinning away for 15 years, that we can continue 

to use that frequency not only with high reliability but with the 

high level of quality that media customers, broadband customers, 

U.S. military require. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, thank you. Mr. Witt, I also visited the Dryden 

Space Center at Edwards along with my visit to you at Space Port. 

What struck me there was the tremendous research going on there. 

And you and I talked about the role of basic scientific research or 

the partnership. I am concerned about our country losing its preeminence or its exceptionalism in research and development of new 

technologies. Would you support more money available for aerospace research or that end of NASA? People forget that NASA also 

has aeronautical as part of its mission. 

Mr. WITT. Mr. Takano, yes, in a short version. And we have done 

something beyond that. David McBride, the Center Director of 

NASA Dryden, and I were on a trip to Europe together. And we 

decided we would do a home-on-home. We would actually trade engineers for a year. An engineer from NASA Dryden would come to 

work for me, and we would find a way to work in kind the other 

way. So they found out there was a mechanism within NASA to do 

that, and we are just completing that first year. 

Mr. John Kelly worked with us at Mojave, and it was a way that 

we thought was a fantastic way to share ideas, best practices, to 

actually institutionalize some of these lessons learned, the people’s 

investment if you will, back to Mojave, and with the other companies. 

There is a lot that can be done in no atmospheric research by the 

national space agency through Dryden, very much so. I would very 

much support. 

Mr. TAKANO. Real quick. Can anyone tell me, who indemnifies 

the European launches since they are, so many of our satellites— 

do we know if the European Union subsidizes those or not? It 

would be interesting to find that out. 

Also, I want to put a plug in for the wonderful simulator experience I had, and I would love to see more opportunities for young 

people to visit the Dryden Center and also participate in some of 

their experimental flights. That would be a great way to try to promote STEM education. I appreciate the common interest that I 

share with my conservative friend, Mr. Rohrabacher, and private 

space—in California. That is one where you and I share a common 

interest. I yield back, sir. 
94 

Chairman PALAZZO. The gentleman yields back. I want to thank 

the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the Members for 

their questions. The Members of the Committee may have additional questions for you, and we will ask you to respond to those 

in writing. The record will remain open for two weeks for additional comments and written questions from Members. The witnesses are excused, and this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:36 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 
(95) 

Appendix I 

ANSWERS TO POST-HEARING QUESTIONS
96 

ANSWERS TO POST-HEARING QUESTIONS

Responses by Ms. Patricia Cooper 
97 
98 
99 
100 
101 
102 
103 
104 
105 
106 
107 

Responses by Mr. Stuart Witt 
108 
109 
110 
111 
112 

Responses by Mr. Dennis Tito 
113 
114 
115 

(117) 

Appendix II 

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL FOR THE RECORD
118 

SUBMITTED STATEMENT OF DONNA F. EDWARDS, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE

ON SPACE, COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today’s hearing on ‘‘Commercial Space,’’ 

and welcome to our witnesses. In particular, I know that we will be hearing from 

Representative McCarthy, and I look forward to hearing his perspectives. 

Now, before I go any further, I’d like to congratulate NASA, and particularly 

NASA Goddard Space Flight Center near my District, as well as the University of 

Colorado Boulder, the University of California Berkeley, Lockheed Martin, the Jet 

Propulsion Laboratory, the United Launch Alliance, and all those involved, on the 

successful launch of the Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution (MAVEN) mission. 

While not strictly a ‘‘commercial’’ mission per se, it takes a dedicated team including 

government, the private sector, and academia to accomplish challenging missions 

such as MAVEN. 

In fact, MAVEN, and its commercial partners, serves as an important reminder 

that over 80 percent of NASA’s entire budget is and has been paid to commercial 

entities for products and services. And many ofthe commercial space activities that 

are being discussed today, as well as others, have and continue to rely on taxpayer 

investments, NASA expertise and experience, and NASA infrastructure. 

In addition, an important factor in the initiation of new commercial space businesses is that NASA-developed technologies have matured to a point that the private sector can begin to seek commercial uses for them. So while I’m as excited as 

anyone about the potential for growth in commercial space, whether it’s in the satellite industry and services, commercial cargo transportation, and commercial reusable suborbital and orbital human spacetlight—oh, and I want to be one of those 

private passengers—I don’t want to perpetuate the misconception that these are 

purely ‘‘commercial’’ endeavors. 

There are significant taxpayer dollars associated with these ‘‘commercial’’ activities and there is much at stake for the Government in the successful execution of 

these programs. As a result, we in Congress need to carry out the oversight that 

is required to protect the taxpayers’ investments and the Government’s contributions to these efforts. 

Yet another important Government role in commercial space is in establishing 

regulations to ensure that commercial space programs are carried out safely and 

that the uninvolved public is not harmed, should an accident occur. In that regard, 

Congress has, over the past two decades, enacted provisions to support a shared 

government-industry third-party liability regime for commercial space launches. 

These provisions expire at the end of this year. And I know that many commercial 

space entities have an interest in the government-industry liability regime for commercial space launch, since that regime is active for any commercial FAA-licensed 

launch. That is the reason I am puzzled, Mr. Chairman, as to why this hearing is 

not focused on the pressing legislative issue of commercial space launch indemnification. 

Furthermore, the legislation that is being discussed today, HR 3038—the SOARS 

Act—appears to deal with a number of FAA-related aviation and space regulatory 

issues, yet FAA is not represented here today. And I’m not aware that any of the 

witnesses who will testify are regulatory experts or can discuss the details of how 

this legislation would be implemented in practice or what the cost of its implementation would be. 

Mr. Chairman, my criticism should not be misconstrued. I share in the excitement 

and promise of the commercial space activities being discussed today and of the 

many innovative ideas and strengths that commercial enterprises bring to our nation’s space activities. I stand ready to work with you, Mr. Chairman, through future hearings, to examine the whole range of issues associated with commercial 

space. These include, at a minimum, how to ensure the safety of human spaceflight 

participants; whether the existing shared-risk third-party liability regime requires 

adjustments; and how commercial space accidents will be investigated. And, given 

the looming expiration of the commercial space launch indemnification provisions, 

I am pleased to join Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Johnson, and Space Subcommittee Chairman Palazzo in introducing a clean one-year extension of the provisions. 

I hope that we can move the bill quickly to the floor after the Thanksgiving break 

so that we can ensure that commercial space launches have continued access to the 

existing protections while this Committee conducts the necessary oversight of the 

issues associated with a longer-term extension. 

Thank you and I yield back the balance of my time. 
119 

SUBMITTED STATEMENT OF EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, RANKING MEMBER, COMMITTEE

ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

Good morning. I would like to welcome each of our witnesses to today’s hearing. 

The topic of today’s hearing is an important one. About ten years ago, this Committee held a hearing entitled ‘‘Commercial Human Spaceflight.’’ Mr. Tito, who is 

on one of today’s panels, testified at that hearing. A lot has happened over the 

course of those ten years. The International Space Station was completed and continues to show great promise as an orbital laboratory. NASA is building the next 

deep space exploration system of the future. With the Space Shuttle retired, cargo 

resupply of the ISS is being turned over to two commercial providers, albeit a success made possible with substantial NASA financial investment and technical transfer. Today, constellations of commercial satellites circle the Earth, performing a 

multitude of critical functions. NASA and FAA are working together in anticipation 

of future manned commercial orbital flights. And both entrepreneurs and established companies are actively exploring a range of commercial space opportunities. 

So it is fitting that we begin a comprehensive examination of what is needed to 

continue to grow commercial space. And I view today’s hearing as exactly that, 

hopefully just the beginning of a series of hearings that will thoughtfully examine 

all facets of commercial space prior to considering any legislation that will affect 

commercial space for years to come. 

Ten years ago, Mr. Tito expressed concern about the regulations that might be 

imposed on the nascent commercial space industry. He was clear to say that he was 

not looking to escape the regulations, but rather wanted clarity on which government agency, and which set of regulations, would oversee the then-new industry. 

His questions are still valid today. 

In addition, the fact that much of what we think of as commercial space in reality 

involves such a significant governmental role, and the fact that the lines between 

public and private may be becoming blurred for some space activities, requires a 

clear understanding of the roles and responsibilities envisioned for these future commercial space endeavors. 

And, the fact that we are staring at yet another expiration of the risk sharing 

regime established in the Commercial Space Launch Act Amendments should not 

and must not detract us from the greater goal of examining this indemnification 

issue comprehensively. In the meantime, I am pleased to join Chairman Smith, 

Space Subcommittee Ranking Member Edwards, and Space Subcommittee Chair 

Palazzo in providing a clean, one-year extension of these provisions, while the Subcommittee has an opportunity to consider whether any changes are needed. 

I look forward to this and future hearings to help us forge a clear direction. 

Æ