UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

**=------------------------~** IN THE MATTER OF: REDEMPTION AIR, INC. Respondent

**=------------------------~** Tuesday, October 11, 2016 FDMS No. FAA-2014-0115 1

The teleconference convened, pursuant to notice, at 3:00p.m.
BEFORE: THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS M. RAWALD, U.S. Administrative Law Judge

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nea!rgross.comAPPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Complainant: GLENN BROWN, ESQ. of: Office of the Regional Counsel Alaskan Region 222 West 7th Avenue Box 14 Anchorage, Alaska 99513

(907) 271-5271 glenn.brown®faa.gov
On Behalf of the Respondent: PATRICK BERGT, ESQ. of: Law Office of Brent R. Cole, P.C. 821 North Street Suite 208 Anchorage, Alaska 99501

(907) 277-8001 patrick®akcolelaw.com Also Present: JACKIE BOOKER, Attorney Advisor

NEAL R. GROSS 2

(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com3
1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 3:02p.m. 3 JUDGE RAWALD : This is a prehearing 4 conference in the case of Redemption Air, docket 5 No. FAA-2014-0115. Today's date is October 11th, 6 2016, and it's 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. 7 This is Administrative Law Judge Doug 8 Rawald. Joining me in the conference is the 9 Government attorney, Mr. Glenn Brown. Also an 10 attorney from Respondent counsel office, Mr. 11 Patrick Bergt. With me in my office is an 12 attorney advisor, Jackie Booker. 13 The reason why we're having this phone 14 call is we had a prehearing conference back on 15 July 20th, 2016, which we agreed to tentative 16 dates for this hearing and also to look at 17 further out the venue options while we were doing 18 that. And we agreed to a date of February 13th, 19 2017. 20 And I was looking at whether we could 21 have this hearing in Kodiak, Alaska. I have 22 found it to be essentially impossible to get

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com4 1 Kodiak, Alaska as a venue given the fact that the 2 hearing space there has very limited window 3 availability and none of those dates worked for 4 all the parties, including myself. 5 We're settling on Anchorage for the 6 place to have the hearing. I just wanted to firm
7 the dates that counsel were available. As I 

### s understand it, Mr. Cole is no longer available 9 February 13th, nor is Mr. Brown. So what I want 10 to look at is other dates and when actually 11 people are available. 12 Mr. Brown, is that right, you're no 13 longer available February 13th? 14 MR. BROWN: I'm not recalling saying 15 that I'm not available, but

-- I'm not recalling 16 that. I'm sorry. If I
-- I may have early in a 17 conversation with one of your support staff. I'm 18 not recalling who it was. I'm sorry. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: All right. Mr. Brown, 2

### o so Ms. Org, my administrative assistant, said 21 that she had spoken to you and you said that you 22 possibly had some training or some sort of class

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 W\foNI/.nealrgross.com5 1 the. Valentine Day week, which is that week in 2 February. 3 MR. BROWN: Oh, okay. In that case, 4 then that's probably correct, although I don't 5 have it written on my calendar at the moment. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Well, Mr. Bergt, 7 is Mr. Cole no longer available February 13th?
8 MR. BERGT: That's correct, Judge, 9 he's no longer available during the month of 10 February or March. 11 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. I am going to be 12 in Anchorage the week of April 24th through 28th 13 for another hearing, and so what I wanted to see 14 is whether folks are available that week before 15 or the week after, possibly. And so, Mr. Bergt, 16 going with you first because Mr. Cole's schedule 17 seems pretty booked up, is there any availability 18 between April 19th and May 3rd for Mr. Cole? 19 MR. BERGT: Your Honor, that would be 20 fine by us. I do believe we do have availability 21 during that time. Mr. Brown and I have 22 previously spoken before this hearing and had

(202} 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com6 1 discussed a possibility of April 3rd or April 2 lOth. Would those dates be too early for Your 3 Honor? 4 JUDGE RAWALD: The problem is I would 5 have to fly back and come home and then go back 6 there. And so, if I can save the Government some 7 money and fly up there one time to Anchorage to 8 both these cases, which would work best for them 9
-- so if I could do the 19th to the 21st with you 10 folks, that would be really ideal, I think, from 11 my point of view. 12 MR. BERGT: I think we could make that 13 work, Judge. I'll defer to Mr. Brown. 14 MR. BROWN: Your Honor, yes, I 15 apologize. I thought I had something
-- I know 16 I've got something toward the end of April. I'm 17 looking for those exact dates. My apologies. If 18 you can give me just a minute. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: That's okay. 20 MR. BROWN: I'm scheduled to teach a 21 class April 21st through May the 1st, and that's 22
-- let me get my calendar here.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com7
1 JUDGE RAWALD: April 21st is a Friday.
2 MR. BROWN: Right. So the week of the 3 17th would work if we started on the 17th. I 4 could do that. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: What day are you 6 traveling? 7 MR. BROWN: I would probably travel on 8 the 19th. 9 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 10 MR. BROWN: Because I'd need a day to 11 prepare once I get there and then start the class 12 on Friday the 21st. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Then let's shoot 14 for that. I'll shoot for April 17th as our 15 hearing date and I will work with the folks at 16 the Anchorage courts to get that squared away. 17 So would you leave the night of the 18 19th or would you have to -- would you be able to 19 be available for the 19th? 20 MR. BROWN: Well, I would be

-- first 21 of all, Your Honor, I think this case can easily 22 be handled in a day, perhaps a day-and-a-half.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com8 1 Probably what I would do though is schedule
-- my 2 flight on Wednesday would be probably the 7:00 3 a.m. flight, because that's what I'm taking 4 tomorrow, because I'm heading down there again to 5 the same class. So probably I would not be 6 available that morning. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Right, so it would be 8 a two-day hearing.
9 And, Mr. Bergt, in talking then with 10 Mr. Cole do you think two days would be 11 sufficient? 12 MR. BERGT: I do believe this case 13 could be tried on two days, Judge. And looking 14 at my calendar, I'm looking at Mr. Cole's 15 calendar, at least one of us should be available 16 during that week. So we're flexible. We'll 17 accept those dates should the Court deem 18 appropriate. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So I'll go ahead 20 and look at April 17th through 18th for this 21 case, and I will talk to folks in Anchorage about 22 that. Okay. Good.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com9
1 And when last we spoke Mr. Cole and 2 Mr. Brown, at least someone commented that a 3 settlement would be reached, so this wasn't going
4 to be an issue. How are things going on that 5 front?
6 MR. BROWN: We reached an impasse, I 7 guess, is the simplest term, Your Honor. 8 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 9 MR. BERGT: My notes indicate the 10 same, Judge. 11 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And so is there 12 any possibility of reengaging, or you think 13 nothing is going to happen in the future here? 14 MR. BROWN: Well, I mean, our offer 15 still stands, but I understand that that's not 16 one that Mr. Stanford is willing to accept. So 17 my guess is it's not likely that things will 18 change. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 20 MR. BERGT: My understanding, Judge, 21 is that we ought to prepare for trial. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And, well, Mr.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNW.nealrgross.com10 1 Bergt, please let him know that the hearing will 2 be in Anchorage. That may persuade him one way 3 or the other as far as the extent of going to 4 Anchorage as opposed to heading to Kodiak for a 5 hearing. But anyway. 6 Okay. So I' 11 ask you folks to at 7 least take another shot somewhere in the next few 8 months to settle, but we will unlikely see that 9 and have an April 17th hearing in this case. 10 Anything else for us to discuss, Mr. 11 Brown? 12 MR. BROWN: No, Your Honor. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And, Mr. Bergt? 14 MR. BERGT: No, Your Honor. 15 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Well, I thank 16 you both for helping me out here and I will get 17 back to you soon as we have a set court date. 18 Thank you very much. 19 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 20 went off the record at 3:09p.m.) 21 22

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comA a.m8:3 able7:18 above-entitled 10:19 accept8:17 9:16 administrative 1:19 3:7

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Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Washington DC 12

www.nealrgross.com13 C E R T I F I C A T E
This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Redemption Air, Inc.
Before: USDOT/OH

Date: 10-11-16
Place: teleconference

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

Court Reporter

(202) 2344433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com