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S. Hrg. 113–317 

TRANSPARENCY AND TRAINING: PREPARING 

OUR FIRST RESPONDERS FOR EMERGING THREATS 

AND HAZARDS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY 

MANAGEMENT, INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS, 

AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

MARCH 25, 2014 

Available via http://www.fdsys.gov 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security 

and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

MARK BEGICH, Alaska 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire 

JOHN KILVINGTON, Acting Staff Director 

KEITH B. ASHDOWN, Minority Staff Director 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

LAUREN M. CORCORAN, Hearing Clerk 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT, INTERGOVERNMENTAL 

RELATIONS, AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 

MARK BEGICH, Alaska Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

JON TESTER, Montana 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

PAT MCQUILLAN, Staff Director 

BRANDON BOOKER, Minority Staff Director 

KELSEY STROUD, Chief Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statement: Page 

Senator Begich .................................................................................................. 1 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 2 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, MARCH 25, 2014 

Mike King, Acting Director of National Training and Education, Superintendent of the Center for Domestic Preparedness, Federal Emergency 

Management Agency, U.S. Department of Homeland Security ....................... 4 

Tim McLean, Chief, Casselton Fire Department, Wheatland, North Dakota .... 6 

Lisa A. Stabler, President, Transportation Technology Center Inc. ................... 7 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

King, Mike: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 21 

McLean, Tim: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 27 

Stabler, Lisa A.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 29 

APPENDIX 

The Forum Article ................................................................................................... 41 

Questions and responses for the Record from: 

Mr. King ............................................................................................................ 42 

(1) 

TRANSPARENCY AND TRAINING: PREPARING 

OUR FIRST RESPONDERS FOR EMERGING 

THREATS AND HAZARDS 

TUESDAY, MARCH 25, 2014 

U.S. SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT,

INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS,

AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,

OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:34 p.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mark Begich, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Begich and Heitkamp. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BEGICH 

Senator BEGICH. Good afternoon and welcome to the Subcommittee on Emergency Management, Intergovernmental Relations, and the District of Columbia. We are here to examine the 

challenges posed to first responders by the transportation of hazardous materials over the road and rail and to discuss the opportunities that exist to train emergency response officials for this 

emerging hazard. 

I am happy to have Senator Heitkamp with us today. I know she 

will provide insight into the recent derailment of a train carrying 

crude oil through Casselton, North Dakota, and the role that first 

responders played in addressing the threat to the community. 

As the demand for domestic energy production continues to grow, 

so does the risk to the Nation’s transportation infrastructure, including railroads and major transportation corridors that run 

through cities and small communities across the country. 

While this boom in production and demand is good for business, 

those who live and work along heavily trafficked transport routes 

must be assured their first responders are equipped and trained to 

address the incidences that may occur. 

The Chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board 

(NTSB) recently admitted the large-scale shipment of crude oil by 

rail simply did not exist 10 years ago and indicated that our safety 

regulations needed to catch up with this new reality. 

According to the Association of American Railroads’(AAR) Annual 

Report on Hazardous Materials, crude oil shipments by rail have 

increased more than 400 percent since 2005. The first responder 
2 

community must prepare for any scenario and must be equipped 

and trained to respond to emerging threats driven by population 

growth or economic forces. 

Yesterday marked 25 years since the Exxon Valdez disaster affected residents, businesses, and wildlife throughout my own home 

State of Alaska. This disaster required a response from every level 

of government as well as the private sector and volunteer organizations. Events like this show the vital importance of local response 

and emphasizes the need to adapt to threats that emerge. 

Communities must know what to prepare for, and those that 

transport critical resources must be a partner in supporting safe 

transportation routes that help grow our economic sector. 

I look forward to hearing from our witnesses to discuss the Federal, State, local, and private sector role in the development of 

training for first responders. Assuring our emergency response personnel are ready for any type of incident is shared investment, benefiting communities across the country, and we must continue to 

support these efforts in the future. 

Let me pause there, and I will ask Senator Heitkamp to give 

some opening remarks. Then we will go to the panel. I will not be 

able to be here throughout the whole meeting. I am going to ask 

Senator Heitkamp to chair the full meeting once I depart, but I 

really appreciate the panel being here. 

Let me again turn to Senator Heitkamp, who has a very recent 

incident in her own home State. Senator Heitkamp. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you so much, Chairman Begich, and 

thanks for organizing this hearing. I think I have said way too 

often that as we look at this mammoth increase in the amount of 

crude oil that we are moving on the rails, it raises really three 

areas that we need to concentrate on: 

No. 1, the prevention of derailments. In a room much like this, 

we had a long conversation with a number of railroad officials on 

how we could provide better support for prevention of derailments. 

The second issue is really minimizing and mitigating the consequences of a derailment. In that case, we had a long discussion 

about tank cars and what should those tank cars look like. How 

should we classify the nature and the characteristics of the crude 

that is going into the tank cars? What do we need to do in terms 

of speed and routing to prevent catastrophic results if we have a 

derailment? 

So those are all critically important, which I am familiar with as 

a former Attorney General who worked very closely during my tenure not only with the Fire Marshals Service, under the jurisdiction 

of the Attorney General, but the entire fire service in the State of 

North Dakota. It is volunteers like Tim here, who is the chief of 

the Volunteer Fire Department in Casselton, North Dakota—I 

might mention my dad was chief for about 30 years in Mantador, 

North Dakota, so I know it can be a thankless job getting those 

guys to show up and do the training—and I know you guys do it 

well, and that is a huge part of our first response effort, especially 

in rural communities. Also I know we have someone here from the 
3 

Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) with whom we 

are going to have broader conversations. 

If we are going to continue what we think is this energy renaissance that has been so critical and so important to America’s future, we need to figure out safety of the transport of this material. 

So, just to give you some idea on how quickly this has become 

an issue, and not to disagree with the Chairman on numbers, but 

we think there has been a 6,000-percent increase over 5 years of 

the amount of oil cars that is moving on the rails. I think that has 

raised questions not only in our State but across the country. I get 

many op-ed pieces, many letters to the editor, many articles from 

places all over this country that are seeing these key trains or 

these unit trains of oil saying, ‘‘What do you want us to do?’’ Or, 

‘‘Should we allow this in our community? ’’ It has really raised the 

issue of legitimate discussion about how we continue this energy 

renaissance, how we continue the transportation of this product, 

but do it in such a way that we have broad-based support. 

And to me, one of the first things that we need to focus on in 

preparation of our first responders, for really two reasons: No. 1, 

it will mitigate the loss of life and property in our communities and 

in our rural areas wherever these derailments take place; but 

equally important, it will minimize the loss of life of our first responders. 

I do not think in this country we take it for granted, but occasionally we just think, oh, the firefighters will show up and they 

will take care of the problem. And I think sometimes we do not understand the risk that is inherent with that commitment to the 

public safety. We saw that in Casselton with the Casselton Volunteer Fire Department, and we are so proud of what Chief McLean 

has done in our State. But he also, I think, has an experience that 

a lot of other folks have not had. 

What you cannot see from this photo is you cannot see the height 

of that explosion. And if I could show you the train underneath, it 

would just be a little line underneath that. In fact, that was so tall 

that the chief called the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 

and said, ‘‘We have a problem with airspace over Casselton.’’ And 

so I think when you look at that, I think any first responder, any 

person who has been trained, would say, ‘‘What do you do with 

that?’’ 

And there is the good news, if there is any good news out of this. 

The good news is that it is out in the middle of a field, and the 

spill eventually ended up in a ditch. Because the ground was frozen, some of the environmental impacts of that spill were mitigated 

as well. But there is not anyone who does not look at that and say, 

‘‘What happens if that was in my community? What would we do? ’’ 

And so today I am hoping that we will continue this discussion 

with Federal officials and industry officials on how we can better 

prepare our communities, how we can better prepare our first responders. And I have to say I have not had any conversations with 

anyone in the railroad industry where they have not talked about 

first responders, where they do not understand and appreciate the 

commitment that is out there. I think as we look forward—we have 

spent a lot of time with the Department of Transportation (DOT) 

on a couple of the derailment and mitigation issues—it is only ap-
4 

1The prepared statement of Mr. King appears in the Appendix on page 21. 

propriate that FEMA is here as an important and significant Federal partner in providing that umbrella of training. 

No one likes to think like this, but it did not have to be a derailment. That could be an act of terrorism. We all know that type of 

event is one of the things we want to prevent those as much as we 

can. We are working to prevent any kind of event. But we also 

need to have the ability to appropriately respond. 

So I am looking forward to this discussion, and I am looking forward to the fact that this will not be the only discussion we have 

on this, that we will, in fact, be looking at follow-through and followup, and that we make this part of the discussion as it relates 

to this energy renaissance. 

Senator BEGICH. Thank you very much, Senator Heitkamp. 

Also, I am going to modify my own data point, because when you 

say 400 percent, it sounds like a lot, but actually the number when 

you look at it—and I am trying to remember the exact numbers, 

but 4 or 5 years ago, the total amount of train cars moving oil on 

tracks was about 4,000 to 6,000 cars in a year. Last year, 400,000 

train cars moving oil on the tracks. This year it will go up again. 

The number is significant, and I think that is the point. I think 

every person may it be local, the private sector, the train operators 

is interested in making sure this moves in a safe manner, because 

as we both come from oil and gas States, we recognize the renaissance that is here. We are becoming more and more independent 

on our own sources of oil and gas. We will continue to be as time 

goes on. So it is not a question of this is temporary or this might 

go away. This is a reality, and how we manage it in the safest possible way is critical. And so this hearing—and I do want to thank 

Senator Heitkamp for requesting this hearing. This is an important 

conversation we all need to have. 

So, again, I want to thank the three panelists here, and I am 

going to go down this row here, and I will first introduce Mike 

King. You have the longest title, I want you to know: Acting Director of the National Training and Education, Superintendent of the 

Center for Domestic Preparedness, Federal Emergency Management Agency, U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). In 

other words, you are the guy that helps to train the people to make 

sure it is safe. So I really appreciate you being here, and FEMA 

has always been very receptive to this Committee and attending 

and participating. 

So let me start with Mike, and then I will just introduce each 

one of you, then go right down the list, if that is OK. 

TESTIMONY OF MIKE KING,1 ACTING DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL 

TRAINING AND EDUCATION, SUPERINTENDENT OF THE CENTER FOR DOMESTIC PREPAREDNESS, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 

HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. KING. Chairman Begich and Senator Heitkamp, good afternoon. As I was introduced, I am Mike King of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and I am the Acting Director of National Training and Education, and I am also the Superintendent 
5 

of the Center for Domestic Preparedness in Anniston, Alabama. On 

behalf of Secretary Johnson and Administrator Fugate, thank you 

for the opportunity to discuss FEMA’s training programs. 

As you know, FEMA’s preparedness grant programs have contributed significantly to the overall security and preparedness of 

the Nation. We are more secure and better prepared to prevent, 

protect against, mitigate, respond to, and recover from the full 

range of threats and hazards the Nation faces than we have been 

at any time in our history. This enhanced national preparedness is 

a direct reflection of our ability to plan, organize, equip, train, and 

exercise better at all levels of government. 

FEMA’s training programs are designed to complement the programs within the State, local, tribal governments, and the private 

sector, while maximizing training resources and facilities owned by 

FEMA or operated by its training partners. 

To ensure that the training experience is high quality and is 

close to real-world as possible, FEMA uses world-class training facilities capable of simulating a variety of incidents and situations, 

including tanker car accidents and medical treatment and patient 

management in a fully operational hospital. In these specialized facilities, students can also detect, monitor, and sample toxic chemical agents, biological materials and radiation sources, and appropriately address explosive materials. 

FEMA’s training and education programs provide specialized and 

advanced critical knowledge, skills, and abilities for the first-arriving emergency responder as well as for advanced technicians and 

specialists. They also incorporate an all-hazards approach to terrorist acts, accidents, and natural disasters. 

These programs are facilitated by nationally recognized subject 

matter experts who hail from the community of practice at the 

State, tribal, local, and territorial levels of government. Each of 

FEMA’s training and education institutions works closely with industry to keep pace with advancements in technology. This ensures 

the training offered includes the most current equipment, such as 

hazardous materials detection equipment, personal protective 

equipment, plume modeling software, and human patient simulators. These resources are critical for successful training and are not 

uniformly available through State, local, and tribal resources. 

In regards to hazmat training in particular, FEMA has 290 instructor-led and 14 web-based training programs that directly relate to hazmat response operations, incident management and 

planning, health care, public health, environmental health, and 

emergency medical response to mass casualty incidents. 

Over the past 5 years, FEMA’s all-hazards hazmat training has 

been delivered to more than 725,000 emergency management and 

response professionals from all 50 States, the six territories, and 

the District of Columbia. An additional 6 million students have 

taken web-based training through FEMA’s independent study programs. 

In addition to the annual reoccurring programmed training conducted by the FEMA enterprise, the fiscal year (FY) 2013 Continuing Training Grants included a $1 million grant directly related to hazmat training for first responders, and FEMA antici-
6 

1The prepared statement of Mr. McLean appears in the Appendix on page 27. 

pates funding an additional $2 million for hazmat training through 

the same competitive process in 2014. 

In summary, FEMA works to complement State, territorial, local, 

and tribal efforts to be prepared for hazmat incidents by providing 

sound, accessible, world-class training and education through their 

resident campus training, mobile training teams, and independent 

study programs. Ultimately, these efforts help our partners identify 

and address their capability gaps before an incident occurs—making them better prepared for potential hazards such as hazardous 

materials incidents. 

I want to thank you for the opportunity to discuss these important programs, and I am happy to answer any questions you have. 

Senator BEGICH. Thank you very much. 

Let me now introduce Chief McLean, Casselton Fire Department, 

Wheatland, North Dakota. Thank you very much for being here. 

TESTIMONY OF TIM MCLEAN,1 CHIEF, CASSELTON FIRE 

DEPARTMENT, WHEATLAND, NORTH DAKOTA 

Mr. MCLEAN. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Begich and 

Senator Heitkamp. I am Tim McLean, fire chief in Casselton, 

North Dakota. I was asked to appear before you today by Senator 

Heitkamp to highlight the importance of Federal grant dollars that 

support local emergency responders. 

I have been with the department for 29 years and have been the 

chief since 2006. We are a small department with 28 volunteer 

members. On average, we receive 100 calls for service per year and 

operate on a yearly budget of $89,000. The Casselton Fire Department covers 378 square miles of Cass County, North Dakota, which 

includes all or part of 12 townships, the city of Casselton, and various small towns with a combined population of 3,680. We have approximately 50 miles of railroad tracks in our territory. 

On December 30, 2013, a train derailed just west of Casselton, 

North Dakota. Cars from the derailment came to rest on a parallel 

track. A tanker train carrying crude oil which was traveling on 

that parallel track collided with those cars, and the result was a 

large explosion and fire, the largest my department has ever encountered. 

With exception to the initial derailment, about everything went 

right that afternoon. Our local response was nearly flawless. From 

the outset, proper procedures were followed and good judgment was 

used. We had the foresight to secure the perimeter and not rush 

in and to realize early we needed our regional response hazmat 

team. The team was dispatched within 10 minutes of the start of 

the incident. From the beginning, the Incident Command System 

(ICS) was used, and we formed a unified command with the sheriff 

and opened an emergency operations center. 

All of the steps we took resulted in a high-quality and efficient 

response to what could have been a catastrophic and deadly incident. The relationships that were in place among the responders 

and the relationship that we have with our State Department of 

Emergency Services contributed to our success. This efficiency allowed a great deal of planning to be completed which resulted in 
7 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Stabler appears in the Appendix on page 29. 

the early assessment about whether or not evacuations would be 

needed. As a result of the planning, the evacuations were planned, 

orderly, and executed perfectly. 

You might think we were just lucky. Even the mayor of 

Casselton said we dodged a bullet. But, in reality, the success of 

this entire incident is that everyone did their jobs, stayed in their 

lanes, relied on their training, and got the job done, and did it well. 

We had no injuries or fatalities, and that is what it is all about. 

We would like to pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves 

how great we are; however, the reality is that we could not have 

been successful without Federal Homeland Security Grant dollars. 

Without this financial commitment and support, we would not have 

had the training or the equipment to properly respond to this fire. 

The regional hazmat team’s equipment was purchased with Federal grant dollars, and the advanced training we have in ICS and 

the National Incident Management System is all made possible by 

these Federal grants. These grant dollars keep us current in our 

hazmat operations training and allow us to hold mock county disaster drills. 

And we have been able to update a lot of our equipment. The 

training that I have received through DHS/FEMA grants has 

taught me how to react to a disaster and what steps to take in the 

first few minutes on an incident. I know I used my training during 

the train derailment, which in turn helped in our smooth response. 

I think this incident should put all of us on notice. Because of the 

growing oil industry and the likelihood that oil will continue to be 

shipped via rail, we must continue to train and plan for these types 

of incidents. Yes, the tanker cars will likely be improved and the 

pipelines may be used more extensively, but that does not erase the 

fact that crude and other hazardous materials will continue to be 

shipped through our communities. Our responder community must 

be ready for that, and Federal grant dollars will greatly increase 

the likelihood that we will be ready. 

Senator BEGICH. Thank you very much for your testimony. 

Next I have Lisa Stabler, who is the president of Transportation 

Technology Center (TTCI). Thank you very much, Lisa, for being 

here. 

TESTIMONY OF LISA A. STABLER,1 PRESIDENT, 

TRANSPORTATION TECHNOLOGY CENTER, INC. 

Ms. STABLER. Thank you, Chairman Begich and Senator 

Heitkamp. On behalf of the members of the AAR and the dedicated 

professionals at the Transportation Technology Center, Incorporated, thank you for the opportunity to be here. 

TTCI is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Association of American Railroads, and I am proud to say that we are among the 

world’s foremost rail-related research, testing, and training organizations. Part of the training that we perform benefits our Nation’s 

emergency responders. Today I will touch on rail industry emergency response efforts generally, but will focus on TTCI’s role in 

these efforts. 
8 

It is important to understand that the work that we do at TTCI 

to prepare first responders for a potential rail incident is only a 

small part of the work that is performed by the entire rail industry. 

All the major railroads have teams devoted to emergency response 

and maintain networks of hazmat response contractors and environmental consultants, strategically located throughout their service areas who are on call 24/7. Railroads work closely with State 

and local emergency first responders. In fact, each year, railroads 

provide training to more than 20,000 emergency responders 

throughout the country. 

In addition to these efforts, railroads support the work that we 

do at TTCI at our Security and Emergency Response Training Center (SERTC). Today SERTC serves the public sector emergency response community, government agencies, and emergency response 

contractors. Since it was founded in 1985, SERTC has provided 

emergency response training to more than 50,000 people for surface 

transportation incidents, primarily on rail. 

Most of our training is advanced training that builds on basic 

training responders receive elsewhere. SERTC’s capabilities in the 

areas of surface transportation are unmatched. We use realistic 

training props and scenarios, including live explosives, and pressurized air and water. Our 600-acre training campus has more 

than 70 rail cars, including a 43-car derailed freight train, 7 passenger rail cars, 7 simulated highway emergency settings, and a 

variety of highway vehicles and containers. Students have unlimited access to the valves, fittings, and containers commonly encountered in surface transportation emergency response, and students 

get to spend at least 50 percent of their time doing hands-on exercises featuring full-scale scenarios with real-life equipment. 

Today I am proud to say that SERTC is enhancing its emergency 

response training offerings devoted to crude oil in three major 

ways: 

First, we have developed a 4-hour general awareness crude oil 

training module that, as of March 1st of this year, has been added 

to all of our existing courses that have a rail nexus. 

Second, we are developing a new, much more comprehensive 3- 

day training module specifically devoted to crude oil derailments. 

This class will cover topics such as the different types of crude oil, 

the types of tank cars used to transport crude oil, and the tactics 

and equipment to use when fighting crude oil fires that occur on 

rail. This class will become operational by July 1st of this year. It 

is a key part of a new $5 million effort by freight railroads to improve crude oil emergency response. The funds will be used to develop the program at TTCI-SERTC and to provide tuition assistance for an estimated 1,500 first responders to travel to SERTC to 

take the new course later this year. 

Third, SERTC is developing a new crude oil emergency response 

training video that is intended for local use, which we hope to have 

completed in the second half of 2014. 

Over the years we have the pleasure at TTCI to host numerous 

Members of Congress. I would like to offer both of you and the rest 

of your colleagues a standing invitation to come visit us so that you 

can see for yourself the ways that we are working to improve transportation safety. 
9 

Finally, in 2007, Congress authorized the National Domestic Preparedness Consortium (NDPC), a consortium within DHS funded 

by FEMA. The purpose of the NDPC is to identify, develop, test, 

and deliver training to the Nation’s first responders. Of the NDPC’s 

seven members, only one TTCI/SERTC—is specifically designed to 

provide first responder training for surface transportation incidents. Unfortunately, since it was added to NDPC in 2007, SERTC 

has received only $10 million for FEMA for first responder training. But in the fiscal year 2014 omnibus appropriations act, Congress provided an additional $5 million to the NDPC, and FEMA 

has yet to allocate these dollars among the NDPC members. We 

hope that this Committee would agree that allocating these funds 

to enhance the capabilities of first responders for rail incidents and 

surface transportation would be a sensible step for FEMA to take. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to be here. 

Senator BEGICH. Thank you very much. I am going to start with 

my questions. Then I will turn it over at that point to Senator 

Heitkamp to lead the meeting as well as continue with the conversation. 

Ms. Stabler, you sparked some thought here. First, on the 3-day 

program that you mentioned, about 1,500 people or so—first responders, is what it targeted—but it is targeted at first responders 

in locations that have potential risk or high volume of rail cars 

with oil. I wanted to make sure I was right on that. 

Ms. STABLER. Yes, Chairman Begich, that is correct. 

Senator BEGICH. OK, Great. Second, I sit on the Appropriations 

Committee, so I have kind of a unique role here not only from this 

role of being here and the authorizing committee and other actions 

we take here, but you had mentioned in 2014 there was an additional $5 million added to the NDPC, and the funding level, that 

money had not yet been distributed but the thought you have is 

why not put that into this kind of area or and use that resource 

so we can better understand how to deal with potential risk when 

it comes to movement of oil cars. Is that right? 

Ms. STABLER. That is correct. 

Senator BEGICH. OK. But I think it is a very fair question, and 

it is a very fast growth we had about 4,000 of these train cars moving, but now we are up to 400,000 train cars for oil shipment. I am 

concerned that maybe the numbers do not match with the growth. 

Mr. KING. Sure. In the 5 years from 2009 to 2013, FEMA spent 

about $843 million for training State and locals. FEMA has a very 

structured process to determine how to allocate that money. Some 

of it is—— 

Senator BEGICH. That is a formula, right? Doesn’t it have some 

base formula and they work from there? 

Mr. KING. Well, we depend upon the States to do their assessments. 

Senator BEGICH. Right. 

Mr. KING. They do their threat, hazard, risk assessments, the 

Threat and Hazard Identification and Risk Assessment (THIRA), 

and then they use that data along with the other assessments 

within the States to develop a State readiness report, State preparedness report. And based on the State preparedness reports, 

FEMA goes in and assesses those, and based on the gaps that are 
10 

identified and the core capabilities across the Nation and across 

the States, they look at the funding that is available, the subject 

areas that need that money attributed to it, and then we allocate 

the funding accordingly. 

Senator BEGICH. Well, I am going to leave with just a couple 

more questions, because I know Senator Heitkamp is chomping at 

the bit. 

But here is my question: So you get these reports from local governments, and State predominantly. They come from in our State, 

or from local government to State, it is a combination. Not always 

the case because we had a little discussion of some States that are 

not very responsive to their local governments, but put that aside 

for a second. 

The assumption is that they go from local to State, and the State 

develops the plan. It shifts to you guys. You review it, then you allocate based on a variety of factors, but you allocate based on the 

State plan. 

So you at any time look at those plans—and I will use North Dakota as an example—say, wait a second here, you have an emerging threat or risk that your plan is not addressing, and then emphasize it to say, look, we cannot accept this plan as it is drawn 

because—and I will use again North Dakota—what you say in 

2009, 2010, or 2011 is dramatically different than 2014, 2013, in 

regards to the movement of oil on trains. 

Do you insert yourself at any point? Or do you just accept it and 

then do the formula? 

Mr. KING. The States prepare a State preparedness report every 

year. 

Senator BEGICH. I understand. 

Mr. KING. And in 2013, 77 percent of the States and territories 

indicated there is not a training gap in the hazardous material 

area, and 23 percent indicated that there were. 

Senator BEGICH. OK. I am going to leave—I know the specifics 

are going to be right to North Dakota, about what their plan said 

and how you reacted. But I think my issue is obviously how does 

that play into it. 

Let me ask you another on a budget issue. The 2014 enacted 

budget for education, training, and exercises was $234 million. This 

year, it is about $131 million cut. 

Now, my guess is it is how they restructured the budget. I am 

not sure, but I just need to understand that. And if you do not have 

it here, I want to give you the chance to bring back to record. Has 

training been cut or are there reallocations based on some consolidation that has been proposed and some other things? I need to understand what has happened to the training and exercise and education budget, because it looks like it has gone this way rather 

than at least stable. But that is because the one line item dropped 

is what I am looking at. So could you respond now? If you cannot, 

let us have it for the record, to be more detailed. Is that possible? 

Mr. KING. Yes. I would prefer to defer that until I can get the 

actual numbers and respond back to you. 

Senator BEGICH. That would be great. I would love that. 

The last question I have, and I want to thank the chief for being 

here. I know what it must be like. When I was sitting here—and 
11 

I do not know if you noticed—when you were just—maybe you were 

not because you were looking at your testimony. When I turned to 

Senator Heitkamp and I thought, $89,000 for a whole year budget. 

I ran a pretty large size city, mayor of Anchorage, almost at that 

time 270,000 people. We had a huge multi-million-dollar budget. So 

I am trying to understand your dependence on grants from FEMA 

and others is critical. Am I reading that wrong? Because I am 

thinking $89,000, there is no way you can do the training that you 

need in a variety of areas for first responders for that budget. Am 

I missing that? 

Mr. MCLEAN. No. That is correct. 

Senator BEGICH. OK. So Federal grants are very important. 

Mr. MCLEAN. All of the rural volunteer fire departments depend 

so much on grants because—and we have been waiting since 2001, 

was our last new engine, and we have been saving since then, and 

we still do not have enough money to outright buy one. 

Senator BEGICH. And all they do is go up in cost. I do not know what they are, $400,000, $500,000 probably now? 

Mr. MCLEAN. The one we are looking at is going to be about $400,000. 

Senator BEGICH. Yes, they have gone up, fairly expensive. So I 

want to give you a challenge maybe at a later time. I know in the 

FEMA budget, which we had a hearing—was it last week? Last 

week, the week before? Two weeks ago. One of the things they are 

looking at is how to consolidate some of the grant programs, but 

how it might affect local governments or in your case first responders? And I know you have a small department. You probably do not 

have a lot of time to do other things. But I would be very interested 

in your comment, and it could be, Senator Heitkamp, on how you 

look at this next year’s budget and consolidation, how it might affect you in a positive or negative way, because in the hearing we 

had 2 weeks ago, I was concerned about local governments and 

what may happen, because in a fully staffed, paid-for fire department it is a little different. In a volunteer fire department, which 

is predominantly most fire departments in this country, it is training grants, equipment grants, and in some cases—I know we have 

used them in some of our small volunteer ones out in rural parts 

of Alaska for bringing in internships or folks to be trained that we 

might hire if they live in the community. 

So I would be very interested in your input. You do not have to 

do it now, obviously, but our staff will get you some information to 

review, and then maybe Senator Heitkamp can inform me, as we 

deal with the appropriations process and what we are doing in this 

Committee, because I am just shocked, actually. That is a small 

amount, but for the amount of people you have on, that is a great 

bang for the buck. And I will tell you, whoever is in your community should be thanking you every day for running that fire department at that kind of cost. That is fantastic. 

Let me end there. 

Mr. MCLEAN. Thanks. 

Senator BEGICH. Thank you. Senator Heitkamp. 

Senator HEITKAMP [Presiding.] I would suggest to Senator Begich that $400,000 for an engine is a lot of fish fries, right? It is a lot 

of hard work and fundraising. I mean, we expect these guys to run 
12 

to the fire, a dangerous fire like what you have just seen, but we 

also expect them to raise the money and provide the support and 

the community enthusiasm for the volunteer fire department, because none of these jurisdictions could afford full-time fire service. 

You heard his testimony. You must have been a little proud when 

you heard his testimony. 

Mr. KING. Very much. 

Senator HEITKAMP. You heard that he believes that a lot of his 

first reaction, the chief’s first reaction, is really because of the 

training that he received, the training that we made a commitment 

to. I want to followup a little bit on Senator Begich’s point of view, 

which is why in the world when we are seeing increased awareness 

of crude oil cars moving in interstate transportation, everybody 

says, well, that is a North Dakota issue. That is not a North Dakota issue. This is an issue that affects every jurisdiction in America, and we have seen it from the challenges that the industry has 

had, whether it is down in Alabama, whether it is in North Dakota, 

whether it is up in Canada. And so why would we not refocus some 

effort on the area of crude on rail. I would suggest maybe what you 

are going to see in your next survey may be people saying this is 

something we need to focus on. I would just like your comment on 

where you see a restructuring or rethinking of what you do at 

FEMA in light of what happened in Casselton, in light of what 

happened in Lac-Megantic, in light of what happened down south 

with incidents that did not cost lives but certainly created a lot of 

concern. 

Are you guys going to continue to use the formula that you are 

using to allocate resources? 

Mr. KING. We have a very structured process, and we will look 

at the needs across the Nation, and we have the amount of funding 

that we have, and we will stretch that funding as far as we can 

to get the most attention toward the gaps that have been identified. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Well, we think you have $5 million now that 

you might be able to spread around a little bit to begin to have 

those discussions. 

Are you guys committed to doing something with that $5 million 

that could, in fact, expand the capacity of our rural fire departments and our local fire departments to respond to this kind of 

threat? 

Mr. KING. The funding for the National Domestic Preparedness 

Consortium is being looked at right now, and those decisions are 

being made. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I just for a moment want to talk about the 

aftermath of 9/11 and everyone focusing on where the threats are, 

what are we concerned about. And obviously the threat to transportation is, No. 1, you would knock out a major hub and cause economic disruption, but also that you are moving a lot of product on 

the rails that presents some unique challenges. Perhaps it is moving beyond derailments and moving to somebody who might want 

to hurt this country looking at a target that is less protected than 

a chemical plant that has a barbed-wire fence with razor wire 

above it and security 24/7. Right? 
13 

So a lot of these chemicals that we know could cause a huge 

amount of damage are moving in interstate transportation, and it 

seems to me that you may not always know what interstate highway they are on, but you are going to know what railroad they are 

on. 

And so I guess what I am trying to impress upon you is the importance of thinking beyond just local preparedness reports and 

thinking about national threats, thinking about how you would approach this as a conduit to the need to move product in interstate 

transportation, interstate commerce. 

I would be curious about that discussion that you would have 

with the local folks, because I understand and really do applaud 

your interest in making sure that the local voice is heard and that 

you are taking the lead locally. But there also is overriding Federal 

considerations that you also should be taking into consideration as 

you look at national interests that may not be reflected. Because 

folks see the railroad and that 1 mile that goes through their town 

or the 1 mile that goes through the city as opposed to the whole 

conduit of the rail system. There is a reason why the Founding Fathers put us in charge of interstate commerce, right? And so I 

think what you do is hugely significant to interstate commerce. 

And I, too, would be really interested in hearing about, as Senator Begich suggested, the continuing plans for FEMA, but I think 

one thing you could take back is that in this situation the fire 

chiefs sure threw you a very nice compliment in terms of being prepared and having access to equipment. But, not everybody took advantage of these training opportunities like the Casselton Fire Department. 

I want to get back, Ms. Stabler, to the industry and the work 

that you do. In some ways, the concern that I have is that everybody knows what you are doing and you are out there doing it, but 

who really knows where you are in terms of first responders? How 

do you do outreach to local communities? How are you going to select maybe those 1,500 that are going to get a tuition waiver? How 

do you plan on deploying these great ideas so that, in fact, not just 

the Casselton Fire Department but the Fargo Fire Department and 

Grand Forks Fire Department can be kept in the loop in terms of 

what is available? 

Ms. STABLER. Well, Senator Heitkamp, thank you for that question, and really the joy of being part of the Association for American Railroads and the North American rail industry is that I am 

not doing this alone. We are part of an industry that is dedicated 

to improving the safety of the goods and the people that we transport. 

When you look at the fact that TTCI is a very small organization—we only have 270 employees out in Pueblo, Colorado—we 

have to remember that we are part of the bigger rail industry, and 

really that we are going to be depending upon that rail industry 

to help us get the word out about this training that we do in Pueblo, Colorado. 

The training that we do is really at a graduate level. It is the 

same as if you were going to get a master’s degree or a Ph.D. There 

is a lot of other training that is done, not only by DHS/FEMA but 

also by the rail industry, to try to get awareness level training, 
14 

even operations level training, to local communities with a number 

of different programs that are in place by each one of the railroads. 

And so, first of all, from an outreach perspective, we are going 

to depend upon those railroads to continue that training, to use 

some of the information that we will be making available later this 

year specifically with crude by rail to help augment what they do; 

and then, in addition, to continue to work with DHS and FEMA as 

a member of the National Domestic Preparedness Consortium to 

make certain that the training that we do is known to that organization and made available as necessary. 

Senator HEITKAMP. How would you grade DHS’ courses and first 

responders as it relates to surface transportation on the rails? 

Ms. STABLER. Well, I think since most of the courses that DHS/ 

FEMA has for surface transportation are the ones—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. No, but I meant overall in terms of 

prioritization along with the quality of the training. 

Ms. STABLER. Well, the course quality is excellent because the 

ones that are available are from TTCI, from SERTC. We have several courses that have been approved through NDPC and are in the 

Federal catalogue. Overall, hazardous material response training I 

think is very good. Rail transportation, surface response training is 

a specialized area, and so I think that is where the consideration 

needs to be given not only to hazardous material training to respond to a fire in a building or to respond to a structure, but also 

to respond to the very specialized area of surface transportation. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Let me ask the question this way: If you had 

his job, what would you be doing differently? 

Ms. STABLER. Well, certainly there are a lot of things that I 

would be doing much the same. I think that you have to listen to 

the local communities to see what it is that they need and try to 

meet those needs. Certainly, though, I do believe that, given the 

data associated with crude by rail transport and surface transportation in general, that is an area that should be looked at. 

Senator HEITKAMP. In what way? 

Ms. STABLER. Well, one of the ways—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. If we are going to, I think, address this in a 

broader spectrum, we cannot keep doing what we are doing. We 

need to have more outreach to the local communities, to the local 

first responders. We need to be providing this training so local communities, not just first responders but local communities, say, OK, 

now I have a confidence level that my fire department, whether it 

is full-time like you would see in Fargo or whether it is rural fire 

departments, which are volunteer fire departments, is prepared to 

respond and knows what they are doing. 

So I think there is now a level of uncertainty out there among 

the American public. What can we do to respond to those concerns? 

And what more should we be doing to give them a level of comfort 

that we are prepared for a disaster? 

Ms. STABLER. Well, I think that that is where the rail community 

needs to continue the outreach that it has been doing and has committed to doing in the future. There are a number of different programs that have been in place with different types of safety trains, 

different types of outreach to local fire departments and local law 

enforcement. If you also look there as industry level response, that 
15 

does the same thing with hands-on training that is taken to the 

local communities as much as possible from a smaller scale than 

what is done at TTCI. 

Senator HEITKAMP. And I would suggest one of the things that 

we have not talked about is the men and women who are on the 

rails to begin with, who de facto may become the first responders. 

That was true in the Casselton case where one of the employees 

of Burlington Northern on the grain train that derailed actually 

had fire training and was able to assess the situation and pull cars 

back, which I think prevented additional catastrophic results. 

And so, I would suggest that we have a whole other group of people we have not talked about, which are the men and women who 

may be feeling less secure if they are on the rails today transporting this product. 

My final question for you is: Are you aware of any type of mapping capability that would give DHS a better idea of where potential risk exists to preemptively target those areas at greater risk 

and to prioritize those areas for additional training? 

Ms. STABLER. I am not aware of anything that would be very specific to mapping risk other than taking a look at where crude oil 

would be transported, and certainly that is something that if that 

would help DHS/FEMA, we would be more than happy to work 

with them on. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I think that would be, just in terms of looking at heightening awareness within the first responder communities and within the emergency services and States and those people who are responsible for responding to hazmat incidences. Chicago might be one area you might want to look at. You might want 

to look at narrow confines with a lot of structures nearby, those 

kinds of issues that may present some unique circumstances for 

first responders. 

Getting back to you, Mr. King, can a local responder be expected 

to get appropriate training for emergency responses in hazmat 

incidences within the time constraint and limited funding? And by 

that I mean, we have so many things that are now getting our attention, and I think one of the issues that we are concerned about 

is finding time to do this and making this a priority. Let us put 

it this way: What is your assessment of the current preparedness 

of first responders in the event of an oil tank derailment nationally? 

Mr. KING. Well, first, when we are talking about hazardous materials, we are talking about the outcome of the event, regardless 

of whether it was a train or tanker car or chemical spill from an 

industry or whatever. The fireman has to be prepared to go and 

deal with the outcome of that event. And the—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. But can I just interrupt you there? Because, 

I am somebody who used to be on the board of directors of a chemical plant, and we have a whole moat around the chemical plant; 

we have firefighters right in place. We knew exactly what we were 

going to do in the event of a fire. 

Here you have a moving event, and so, I understand saying— 

look, I keep asking you to segregate the train from the plant or 

from other kinds of hazardous material spills, and I am really interested in a focus on the train. 
16 

Mr. KING. Right, but—I understand. The hazardous materials 

training is predominantly done at the State level, the initial training. What FEMA is trying to do is expand that with more advanced 

training for the hazardous materials specialist as well as providing 

training to all firemen, policemen, the other first responders, so 

when they become the first response to an incident they know the 

proper steps to try to save the lives, take the appropriate steps to 

protect the environment and protect property, until the hazmat 

team or the other response agencies are able to get there and show 

up. 

Of all of the FEMA training courses, more than 75 percent deal 

with a hazardous material incident. That is both the actual hazardous material response, but it is also the incident command and 

management, such as Chief McLean referred to, as well as the 

medical response that could have come from that. 

Several years ago, there was a train wreck down in South Carolina of a chlorine tank, and there were 250 casualties and I believe 

14 deaths associated with that incident because of where it happened and what they were taking and the chemical that was dispersed from it. 

So those three areas are critical to the entire hazmat response, 

and we are working very hard to train all of the response community in those subjects so they are better prepared to address it. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Would you expect in your next round of State 

requests that you would see more requests for training as it relates 

to the rail? 

Mr. KING. Anytime there are more incidents, that carries into the 

assessment of the core capabilities within that jurisdiction. 

Senator HEITKAMP. How do you think we could improve the services, especially in rural communities? When you look at Casselton, 

a lot of people would not know where that is. But it is only about 

20 miles from Fargo. Fargo is our major city, has the largest capability of response. Obviously a very large sheriff’s department 

which could assist the chief in terms of evacuations. 

I mean, it may sound like it is out in the middle of nowhere to 

folks, but those of us in North Dakota know that the relationship 

between West Fargo and Casselton is narrowing. Then this could 

also have happened in rural Dunn County, which is much more isolated, where first responders may be used to fighting a grass fire, 

but they have had no experience at all in terms of hazardous material. They may have focused in the past their mind on a grass fire, 

which, trust me, can be very dangerous for our first responders as 

well. 

So how do we build awareness of the responsibilities that we all 

have to make sure first responders are appropriately trained and 

that we get this right across the country? 

Mr. KING. Well, you bring up a very valid point because 75 percent of America is categorized as rural by the Census, and we work 

very closely with the States to ensure that we are providing training services to the entire State, regardless of the jurisdiction. Our 

courses are specially molded to be no more than 1 week in length, 

generally speaking, to accommodate the local responders. The 

homeland security grants provide funding. An acceptable expense 
17 

is for the overtime or the backfill for those fire, police, or other responders that attend our training. 

The Rural Domestic Preparedness Consortium is a special group 

that was founded in 2005 of small colleges that focus on rural response, and they have specifically developed and are delivering a 

rail tanker hazmat training course that specifically is geared toward rural response of this type of an incident. As I mentioned in 

my opening statement, last year we allocated an additional $1 million specifically to address hazmat, and this year we have increased that to $2 million in the competitive development process. 

So we certainly recognize that hazmat is a large problem associated with possibly any incident that the emergency responder has 

to respond to, and we are trying to make sure that we give them 

the knowledge, skills, and abilities they need to safely and effectively address the situation. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes, and not to belabor the point, but, a $2 

million increase in light of the percentage increase that we are seeing of these materials moving on the rails seems like it does not 

quite meet the challenges. And so, what I hope that we can get out 

of this is kind of a national structure that relies on the expertise 

of the industry and the training capability, the excellent training 

capability of FEMA to really produce a pot. It sounds like it is already moving in the right direction with the video and then we are 

looking at something that is much more intensive, but to really 

begin to have this discussion. 

And, I will tell you, not to bring up a bad subject, but when I 

was Attorney General, we had very high profile school shootings. 

No one thought that they ever had to train for that kind of event. 

But because of those events, schools started training for those 

kinds of events. I think it has made a difference across the country, 

and no one likes to believe that they are going to see this kind of 

event in their backyard or in their community, but there is no 

guarantee that they will not. That is why it is so critical that, as 

people are thinking about what their needs are, whether it is rural 

Dunn County or whether it is Casselton, whether it is Fargo or 

Grand Forks, Minot, Bismarck, bigger cities, that they have the capability to know where to go to get that specialized training and 

to understand the dynamics of this. 

I want to kind of close this out with a couple questions for the 

chief. He thinks he has gotten off easy. He was kind of hoping I 

would not ask him any. He is, like, yes, I survived, because this 

is what is true in North Dakota. People are pretty humble, and 

they just—as you said, we are not patting ourselves on the back 

because we did our job, but we were able to do our job pretty effectively because of the training that was provided nationally and the 

support that they have from FEMA. Do not ever forget that. That 

is a good-news story, but it does not mean that we rest on our laurels here and say our job is done. We did well, we are through that 

impasse, but this is not the first time we are confronting this, or 

the last. This is not the first and it will not be the last. 

But I would like to ask the chief, if you were going to give advice 

to anyone in your situation, volunteer fire chief, dealing with a lot 

of guys who are volunteering and they are coming in not as professionals, but they are coming in as farmers and ranchers and, local 
18 

business people, coming to a fire that they may or may not know 

what they are getting themselves into—what advice would you give 

to other chiefs across the country in terms of being ready and prepared? 

Mr. MCLEAN. Well, for the minimum part, at least to learn how 

to read the Emergency Response Guide (ERG). It gives you all your 

placard numbers and your evacuation distances, and it covers the 

information of the chemical and the hazard that is in hand there. 

That is at least one thing, if you read that, you will know what it 

is, you will know not to get within a certain distance before you 

rush up there and find out it is too late. And at least maybe the 

minimum amount of hazmat training. 

We are in the hazmat operations because we rely on Fargo 

hazmat. They are the paid department. They are technicians, so we 

rely on them. But our operations, we can identify what it is, we can 

do the evacuation, and the perimeters, we can secure those. We can 

do the diverting and the diking and the de-con, but that is as far 

as we go. We rely heavily on the paid department for regional 

hazmat on that part. 

Senator HEITKAMP. So the real advantage here is to understand 

the role of containment. 

Mr. MCLEAN. Yes. 

Senator HEITKAMP. And the role of the people who actually have 

the very specialized training. 

Mr. MCLEAN. Yes, and identification is the biggest thing. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I guess this goes back to you, Lisa. Wouldn’t 

it be great if every fire chief had an app and every volunteer fire 

department had an app that they could simply plug in and say 

here is what we recommend? 

Ms. STABLER. Well, that is something that should be available in 

the later half of 2014. And certainly when you look at the information that is available for hazardous material, there is training that 

is available that teaches how to use the manuals that the chief 

spoke of. But there is also information that is available in the front 

of the train, in the locomotive, that says here is what is on every 

car and gives you an idea of the commodity that is in there and 

the classification of that commodity. 

Senator HEITKAMP. What happens if they do not want to get too 

close to that car? 

Ms. STABLER. Later on this year, they hopefully will not have to 

because that will become electronic. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Electronic. And so I think in this information 

age we can look beyond opening up a book and start looking at how 

do we provide this information. As he said, their role really is first 

responders. You look here, you can see exactly that attention to the 

safety of the first responder. You do not get too close. You have to 

know what you are doing. But, again, Fargo was just, what, 15, 20 

minutes away. And so, I mean, this is not typical in North Dakota 

that you would have that level of professional fire service—and by 

‘‘professional,’’ I mean paid fire service—that close. 

Looking back, if you were going to change any of the things that 

you did, what would you change, Chief? Wouldn’t have volunteered 

to be the chief, right? [Laughter.] 
19 

Mr. MCLEAN. Probably nothing, because everything went so 

smoothly in this because of the location of where the fire and the 

derailment was at. Now, if it was in town, then we would probably 

be talking about a few more other problems we would have had. 

Senator HEITKAMP. But right now your challenge is, isn’t it, to 

imagine if it were in town, what would you do? 

Mr. MCLEAN. Well, if it was in town—we have had this discussion in our department a few times now lately. We would probably 

draw just an imaginary line and said we are going to save from 

here back and the rest of it we are going to just make sure everybody is out of the way and everybody is safe and do rescues. And 

we would have to sacrifice buildings. 

Senator HEITKAMP. You would have to sacrifice property. 

Mr. MCLEAN. Yes, and do just containment on structures that 

would be in the outer perimeter, like out of the hot zone. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I think it is a good-news story, which is that 

you guys did a great job helping provide preparedness to the 

Casselton Fire Department. You guys are doing some great work 

in imagining what those what-ifs are and how do you train for 

those, how do you get a broad-based kind of support out there not 

only for, as you said, the Ph.D.’s but also the freshmen in the class 

who only need a certain amount of that information. 

But if we are going to continue, as I said in the beginning, this 

energy renaissance, we know we are going to continue to move, and 

appropriately, Bakken crude or other forms of crude on the rails in 

this country. That has created a new opportunity for us to do a 

lookback at DOT and start talking about positive train control, 

what is holding that up, start looking at decisions relative to how 

do we test the gauge of the rails; how do we make sure we prevent 

derailments; how do we do everything we can to create a new-generation tank car that will provide some puncture resistance and 

avoid those kinds of results; how do we look at routing decisions; 

how do we look at speed decisions that will maximize safety. 

But there is another role for another Federal agency in this, and 

that is FEMA, to look beyond just what you are hearing today from 

the local folks and think about kind of the consequences to the 

country of this product moving across the rails and how we can create a greater opportunity for training and a greater opportunity to 

first and foremost keep our communities safe, but also keep our 

first responders educated to the point where they know exactly 

what it is that they need to do. 

And so I look forward to ongoing discussions with FEMA about 

resources, look forward to, I think, a lot of discussion back in North 

Dakota with first responders, and finding out what their needs are 

and reporting those back, and then taking those great products 

that you build on behalf of the rail industry and making sure that 

they are not on some shelf somewhere or just not listened to, that 

we are getting those out in a very systematic and planned way so 

that we can broaden the safety quotient. 

And so thanks so much. You guys have been a great panel. Like 

I said, I think this is the third leg of the stool as we go forward, 

and I am putting as much attention on this as I am on any tank 

car, so just know that I might be a pain in your side for a while, 
20 

but I want to make sure that our first responders have the tools 

that they need. 

The Chairman left me in charge, it does not happen very often 

for someone who has only been here for a couple months. So the 

hearing record will remain open for 15 days for Members to submit 

statements or additional questions. We ask that the witnesses respond to these questions in a timely manner. 

This concludes our hearing, and I want to thank you for your 

participation today. This Subcommittee is adjourned. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 3:41 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 
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