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96–139 2016

EVALUATING FEDERAL AND COMMUNITY EFFORTS 

TO ELIMINATE VETERAN HOMELESSNESS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 11, 2014 

Serial No. 113–96 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 


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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

JEFF MILLER, Florida, Chairman 

DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado 

GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida, Vice-Chairman 

DAVID P. ROE, Tennessee 

BILL FLORES, Texas 

JEFF DENHAM, California 

JON RUNYAN, New Jersey 

DAN BENISHEK, Michigan 

TIM HUELSKAMP, Kansas 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio 

PAUL COOK, California 

JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana 

DAVID JOLLY, Florida 

MICHAEL H. MICHAUD, Maine, Ranking 

Minority Member 

CORRINE BROWN, Florida 

MARK TAKANO, California 

JULIA BROWNLEY, California 

DINA TITUS, Nevada 

ANN KIRKPATRICK, Arizona 

RAUL RUIZ, California 

GLORIA NEGRETE MCLEOD, California 

ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire 

BETO O’ROURKE, Texas 

TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota 

JON TOWERS, Staff Director 

NANCY DOLAN, Democratic Staff Director 

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of rule XI of the Rules of the House, public hearing records 

of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs are also published in electronic form. The printed 

hearing record remains the official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 

both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process of converting between 

various electronic formats may introduce unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences 

are inherent in the current publication process and should diminish as the process is further 

refined. 


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C O N T E N T S 

Thursday, December 11, 2014 

Page 

Evaluating Federal and Community Efforts to Eliminate Veteran Homelessness ........................................................................................................................ 1 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Hon. Jeff Miller, Chairman ..................................................................................... 1 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 57 

Hon. Michael Michaud, Ranking Member ............................................................. 5 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 58 

WITNESSES 

Baylee Crone, Executive Director, National Coalition for Homeless Veterans .. 6 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 60 

Steve R. Berg, Vice President for Programs and Policy, National Alliance 

to End Homelessness ........................................................................................... 8 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 63 

John F. Downing, Chief Executive Officer, Soldier On ........................................ 9 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 66 

Phil Landis, President and Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Village of San 

Diego ..................................................................................................................... 11 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 68 

Casey O’Donnell, PsyD, Chief Operating Officer, Impact Services Corporation 13 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 69 

Jon Sherin, M.D., Ph.D., Executive Vice President for Military Communities 

and Chief Medical Officer, Volunteers of America ............................................ 15 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 72 

Lisa Pape, Executive Diretctor, Homeless Programs, VHA, U.S. Department 

of Veterans Affairs ............................................................................................... 41 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 86 

Accompanied by: 

Thomas O’Toole, Acting Director, National Center for Homelessness 

Among Veterans, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs 

Jennifer Ho, Senior Advisor on Housing and Services to the Secretary, U.S. 

Department of Housing and Urban Development ............................................. 43 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 101 

Hon. Keith Kelly, Assistant Secretary of Labor, Veterans’ Employment and 

Training Service, U.S. Department of Labor ..................................................... 45 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 109 

FOR THE RECORD 

Friendship Place ...................................................................................................... 114 

National Rural Health Association ........................................................................ 122 

United States Interagency Council on Homelessness ........................................... 135 

Vietnam Veterans of America ................................................................................. 143 


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EVALUATING FEDERAL AND COMMUNITY EFFORTS TO ELIMINATE VETERAN HOMELESSNESS 

Thursday, December 11, 2014 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS, 

Washington, D.C. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in Room 

334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Jeff Miller [chairman of 

the committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Miller, Lamborn, Bilirakis, Roe, 

Denham, Benishek, Coffman, Wenstrup, Walorski, Jolly, Michaud, 

Brown, Takano, Brownley, Titus, Kirkpatrick, Ruiz, Kuster, 

O’Rourke, and Walz. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JEFF MILLER 

The CHAIRMAN. If I can take chairman’s prerogative just a 

minute. I appreciate the members’ indulgence. I have already 

apologized to the ranking member for not being able to be at the 

reception that was held in his honor that Ms. Brown hosted for 

him. I was, unfortunately, attending a funeral in The District. 

But, you know, in the nature of this business, we see members 

come and we see members go. Sometimes some members are a little bit harder to say goodbye to because they have been an integral 

part of what has been going on in this process. So I would say that 

those of us who have been lucky enough to have worked with Mike 

Michaud, the ranking member, inside this committee and outside, 

will always remember him for his jovial nature and his constant 

willingness to bring both Democrats and Republicans together. 

This committee, I think, has been better because of Mike’s leadership. 

The work that he has done in this very room provides a perfect 

illustration of Mike’s commonsense, bipartisan approach to getting 

things done. So, in an era that has been plagued by 

hyperpartisanship, Mike deserves great credit for his work to keep 

the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs one of the few places 

that is virtually immune from the way Washington has come to 

work. Our committee has lead the charge on uncovering the largest 

scandal in healthcare issues in VA history. During that time, Mike 

has been relentless in his pursuit of the truth in getting to the bottom of the all of the questions that our committee has answered. 

This past summer, when it was time for the Senate and the 

House conference committee to get together to reach a deal on our 


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reform bill, Mike played an integral role to bringing both sides together to find common ground and that is why that piece of legislation was able to pass by such a wide margin in both the House and 

over in the Senate as well. 

He is as serious as I was about seeing meaningful reform at the 

VA. His leadership was critical to helping all of us achieve our 

goals. I have served on this committee with Mike for over a decade 

now. I think you could probably count the number of committee 

hearings he has missed on one hand, and I think that is a testimony to his dedication to those that he serves and the passion that 

he has. Mike is a passionate, pragmatic member of this committee 

as anyone who has ever served on it has seen. America’s veterans 

are losing a powerful voice in Washington, and this institution is 

saying goodbye to one of its finest Members. 

So, Mike, thanks for your years of exemplary service to our committee, this Congress, to our Veterans, and to this country. I know 

I speak for everyone here saying you are going to be sorely missed. 

Do have any comments? 

Mr. MICHAUD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for that 

very kind and very generous remarks. I really appreciate it very 

much. As you know, this does mark my last hearing as member of 

this committee and this Congress. Although I am looking forward 

to the opportunity and the challenges that lie ahead of me, the 

years ahead, I definitely will miss this committee and the work 

that this committee has done over a number of years. 

And to the incoming ranking member, Ms. Brown, I know you 

have spent 22 years on the committee. You have been a strong 

voice for our veterans, you know, here in this committee. I hope 

that you enjoy the ranking membership position as much as I have 

over the last, you know, several years. 

And to my fellow Democrats, I want to thank you as well. I can’t 

thank you enough for the work that you have done on this committee. You have made my job as a ranking member a very easy 

job, working together, particularly during these turbulent times 

over the last couple of years dealing with the VA. And I appreciate 

the energy and the excitement that you brought on the Democratic 

side. And I hope you will continue to with your efforts in the next 

Congress in the years ahead. 

And to our Republican colleagues, I want to thank you very 

much. I have been on several CODELs with a lot of you over the 

years. I really appreciate the efforts that you have done to make 

this committee a bipartisan committee, and I cherish the friendship 

and the camaraderie that we have had over a number of years. 

And this committee definitely is a special committee. And although 

there are times that—when we differ on perspectives and how to 

best serve our veterans, we work together without regard to party. 

And that is what it is all about. 

And I hope that the American people will look at this committee 

as a model and look at you, Mr. Chairman, as a leader and insist 

that their representatives do what we have done here over a number of years in this committee working together. And we can’t do 

it alone. I want to thank Nancy and my staff on this side of the 

aisle for your tireless effort. I want to thank Jon Towers and the 

Republican majority staff as well. The committee staff has done a 


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phenomenal job over the last couple of years. And I really appreciate the work that you have done, especially the administrative 

staff. You keep everything on time and make sure that we have 

what we have to do, you know, as well. So I want to thank you 

very much. 

And, in closing, Mr. Chairman, I really do appreciate our friendship over the years. And as you mentioned, you know, we meet a 

lot of individuals here in Congress. A lot we consider friends. There 

are some we consider friends in a more, you know, special way. 

And I consider you a very good friend. We have switched roles over 

the time as Members of Congress; so me being chair, you being 

ranking member and visa vera. And I really appreciate that, your 

openness, your willingness to listen to me as a minority member 

and as a ranking member and move forward in that regard. So I 

want to thank you very much. 

And this time, in closing, I know you have talked on the House 

floor, you have talked in this committee about coming to the State 

of Maine, how you want to be able to shoot a moose. Unfortunately, 

I was not able to win the governorship. But, hopefully, you will not 

forget that—and I will not forget your efforts to try to shoot a 

moose in the State of Maine. So I do have something I would like 

to present to you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is cool. 

Mr. MICHAUD. Actually, in Maine, in the woods, moose, they do 

lose their antlers. And I have a constituent actually that goes 

through the woods to try to get moose antlers to carve out an eagle 

head in the moose antler. So this is the half of a moose antler. 

Mr. Chairman, I would like to present it to you in your drive to 

actually get a full moose in the State of Maine. And I would like 

to present this to you as a parting gift for your friendship, your loyalty, but, more importantly, your work that you have done for veterans over a number of years, putting aside partisan politics to do 

what is right for our veterans. So here is a freedom antler with an 

eagle from the State of Maine. So—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mike, very much. If you ever go to 

Maine, you have to drink the state drink of Moxie when you come 

there. So it has been a great, great run. And I thank you. 

I also want to say thank you to the departing members of our 

committee that won’t be returning to this committee and we are 

going on to other assignments. We appreciate your diligence, especially over the last couple of years and understand that your work 

is just the beginning. We have a long way to go working with the 

Department, and I had a great conversation with the Secretary a 

couple of nights ago. We were on the same flight as I was leaving 

Washington. I do believe he is committed to making some changes, 

but he has got a lot of work to do. We are going to try to help him 

in every way we can. 

So, with that, the committee will come to order. We are going to 

have a hearing this morning—it is actually the last hearing of the 

113th Congress—evaluating Federal and community efforts to 

eliminate veteran homelessness. At this time of year, perhaps more 

than any other, the thought of anyone, particularly anyone who has 

served our Nation in uniform, without a home or a safe place to 

sleep is unconscionable and heartbraking. Unfortunately, homelessVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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ness or the constant threat of it has become a way of life for far 

too many of our Nation’s veterans. 

In 2009, the Department of Veterans Affairs initiated a 5-year 

plan to eliminate veteran homelessness. As that deadline fast approaches, I am pleased to report that the VA has succeeded in reducing veteran homelessness by approximately 33 percent. Yet, as 

long as a single veteran struggles with housing instability or homelessness, our work remains. 

Troublingly, a VA Inspector General report issued just last week 

found that VA’s national call center for homeless veterans missed 

well over 40,000 opportunities to link homeless veteran callers to 

VA medical facilities and to ensure that they received their needed 

services. Some of these missed opportunities resulted from the unavailability of call center staff during peak business hours when 

veteran callers were transferred to answering machines, instead of 

call center employees. I think you will agree this is unacceptable 

for any government program, but particularly—particularly a population that is as vulnerable as this one is, a population that, for 

some, the ability to merely make a phone call is a logistical challenge. I look forward to hearing today how VA is correcting the serious deficiencies that the IG found and holding those at fault accountable for their management or mismanagement and oversight 

failures. 

Unfortunately, the call center is just one concern that I have 

with VA’s homeless programs. Based on the information from the 

VA, the Department has roughly 20 different programs designed to 

get homeless veterans off the streets and provide them with housing, healthcare, and employment assistance. The Departments of 

Housing and Urban Developments and Labor also have programs 

aimed at achieving the same goals. So I am encouraged to see the 

level of cooperation between these government agencies. 

I understand that homeless veterans are a varied and complex 

group, and one program alone cannot effectively treat the unique 

needs of all of them. However, the plethora of different programs 

that are in place today beg the question of whether significant 

overlaps exist that both waste taxpayer money and limits the effectiveness of any single program’s ability to effectively care for a veteran that may be in need. 

I also have concerns about the increasingly insular focus the Department is placing on permanent housing. Except for the very few 

veterans for whom housing instability may be a lifelong concern 

due to underlying health conditions, the foremost goal of every program serving homeless veterans should be providing a bridge to an 

independent, a purpose-filled life, not a permanent, governmentsponsored home. 

Over the last several years, the American taxpayer has devoted 

record amounts of their tax Dollars to eliminating veteran homelessness, with funding for targeted homelessness programs increasing by almost 300 percent and funding for healthcare for homeless 

veterans increasing by more than 80 percent since fiscal year 2009. 

Despite this considerable investment, veteran homelessness will 

never be completely eliminated so long as veterans struggle with 

the underlying health conditions and are in an economic crisis. 


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Quickly and effectively diagnosing and treating those underlying 

health conditions and providing veterans who are able with job 

training and placement services is critical to empowering homeless 

veterans to successfully re-integrate into stable community environments. To truly honor and respect the service of a homeless veteran is to provide him or her with a pathway to a life of dignity 

and self-sufficiency, not just four walls and a roof. 

With that, I now yield to the ranking member, Mr. Michaud, for 

an opening statement. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JEFF MILLER APPEARS

IN THE APPENDIX] 

OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MICHAEL 

MICHAUD 

Mr. MICHAUD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

The VA’s goal of ending veterans homelessness by the year 2015 

is an ambitious goal. A remarkable progress has been made by the 

VA to meet this challenge, but there is much more that still has 

to be done that we have to focus on. 

As we all realize, VA cannot meet this goal alone. It will take the 

concerted effort and actions of the Federal Government and the assistance of organizations and individuals all across the country. 

And I look forward to the hearing today so that we can evaluate 

the effectiveness of this effort and applaud the real progress that 

has been made. 

According to reports, homelessness among veterans has declined 

by 33 percent to roughly 50,000 since 2010. This is an accomplishment we all can be proud of, but we have still a lot of work to do 

in dealing with our homeless veterans. And it is simply unacceptable that any of our veterans do not have a roof over their head. 

I am also concerned that we are not taking adequate steps to address special populations, such as homeless woman veterans and 

those who need serious and sustainable assistance. 

Today’s hearing provides us with the opportunity to continue this 

discussion. It provides us the opportunity to discuss how we define 

the goals of ending veterans homelessness, the resources needed for 

that, and work that remains to be done in the years ahead. 

And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I would ask for my full comments 

to be included in the record and look forward to hearing the panel’s 

discussion this morning. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MICHAEL

MICHAUD APPEARS IN THE APPENDIX] 

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, your statement will be entered into the record. I would ask the first panel, if you could, come 

and take your seat. As you are taking your seats, I will introduce 

everyone. 

Joining us on the first panel today is Baylee Crone, the executive 

director of the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans; Steven 

Berg, the vice president for programs and policy for the National 

Alliance to End Homelessness; John Downing, the chief executive 

officer of Soldier On; Phil Landis, president and chief executive officer of the Veterans Village of San Diego, of which several of us 

have had a chance to visit; Dr. Casey O’Donnell, the chief operating 


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officer of Impact Services Corporation; and Dr. Jon Sherin, the executive vice president for military communities and chief medical 

officer of Volunteers of America. 

Thank you all for being here this morning to share your expertise. 

Ms. Crone, you are first up. You are recognized with your opening statement. 

STATEMENT OF BAYLEE CRONE 

Ms. CRONE. Chairman Miller, Ranking Member Michaud, and 

distinguished members of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs, thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee today. My name is Baylee Crone, and I am the executive director of the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans. On behalf 

of the more than 2100 community and faith-based organizations 

NCHV represents, I would like to thank all of you for your steadfast commitment to serving our Nation’s most vulnerable heroes. 

This testimony will focus on our understanding of the progress 

made to end veteran homelessness in this country, including efforts 

to match services to the needs of homeless and at-risk veterans 

through permanent housing, transitional housing, employment, and 

prevention initiatives. 

National declines in veteran homelessness since 2009 are without precedent, as we have heard this morning. The successes we 

have seen to date and our future successes rely on the strength of 

VA’s front lines, the community providers, and VA case managers 

who fight the daily battle to do more, better, and faster. The momentum is on the side of rapid change, and we are closer than ever 

to achieving our mission of effectively ending Veteran homelessness. However, any veteran homelessness is not a moment. It is a 

moving target. 

Looking at one measure, the 2014 point-in-time count tells an 

important part of this story. On a single night in January, 49,933 

veterans were homeless. This 33 percent decline since 2009 is more 

than a statistic. It represents a real measurable downward trend 

in homelessness among veterans. These significant drops happened 

as community organizations and VA medical centers have improved 

outreach and targeted their services to those with the most significant barriers. To make progress toward our mission, we must see 

drops in the point-in-time count, but that is not the only aspect of 

change we need to see. 

Across the country, community organizations and VA partners 

are stepping in with the safety net and a hand up to self-sufficiency 

and independence. We are fostering empowerment. We are halting 

cycles of abuse. We are educating and protecting. These activities 

may not show up in any official point-in-time count, but they are 

and will continue to being the actions protecting against homelessness for many veterans. 

The PIT count is a snapshot. Other data build out a more robust 

scene of the challenges we face in the road ahead. In 2014, 80 percent of unsheltered veterans moved out of unsheltered status in 3 

days. In that same period, over 50,000 veterans achieved permanent housing through the supportive services for veteran families 

program, far outpacing the VA’s goal of 40,000. These are some of 


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the data points that show us that fuller picture. Veterans are engaging when they need help. They are moving rapidly off the 

streets, and they are successfully moving into permanent housing. 

The VA updated its homeless gaps analysis and launched the 25 

cities campaign to promote community-based solutions to ending 

veteran homelessness in high-need areas. The picture gains more 

clarity. Results are being meticulously and consistently tracked to 

improve targeting to meet specific local and individual needs. The 

system has improved, and it is working. At NCHV, we demand that 

individual needs match specific services. We do not have a homeless veteran population. We have individual veterans who are 

homeless and have specific and unique needs profiles to be addressed through a coordinated system of care. 

Wherever chronic, episodic, or at-risk homelessness exists, the 

VA and its community partners must be ready and armed. We can 

end chronic homelessness. We are already doing it through HUD– 

VASH and Housing First. We can functionally end episodic and recent homelessness. Rapid rehousing infrastructure, transitional 

housing, and income interventions are joining together to make 

this happen. 

We can get ahead of homelessness through prevention. SSVF 

serves more veterans and their families more cost-effectively every 

single year. 

The full picture is complicated, but it is lit up with hope. Ending 

veteran homelessness starts with the veteran, and people are complicated. Some individuals with complex needs profiles will be 

served by several programs. This does not mean that the services 

are being duplicated, but rather the organizations and programs 

are working together to address specific barriers to permanent 

housing. We believe in and will defend effective deployment of targeted resources to field research-based interventions when and 

where they are needed. As the number of veterans on the streets 

and in temporary shelter goes down, we will need to be more, not 

less, diligent in ensuring that we provide that hand up to those 

who remain on the streets. 

We will end veteran homelessness, but reaching that benchmark 

happens when the systems in place are ready and able to immediately meet a veteran’s needs should he fall into homelessness or 

be at high risk. As we make progress, resources will need to be redeployed, not withdrawn. We believe a surge is still needed now, 

not because we set a goal for 2015 and want to check a box, but 

because we have the momentum now to make it happen for veterans. This requires full funding HVRP, a surge in SSVF resources, 

and maintenance of current eligibility for veterans served through 

VHA homeless grant programs. 

Thank you for the opportunity to present this testimony today. 

It is a privilege to work with this committee to ensure that every 

veteran in crisis has access to the support services they have 

earned through their service to this country. Thank you. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MS. BAYLEE CRONE APPEARS IN

THE APPENDIX] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Crone. 

Mr. Berg, thank you for being here. You are recognized for your 

opening statement. 


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STATEMENT OF STEVEN R. BERG 

Mr. BERG. Thank you for having me. Thank you for all the members of the committee to come here. This is the end of this Congress today, it looks like, and I hope that this hearing will mark 

the beginning of a final push to achieve something very important 

in this country that is long overdue. 

I have a lot of wonky things I can talk about about homelessness. 

At the National Alliance, we make a point of being experts on what 

it takes to end homelessness. But I sort of feel like, for 5 minutes, 

I really need to make this point: Once in a rare occasion, our country has a chance to do something that is really great, and that happens on the even more rare occasion when people in leadership positions recognize that that is what they are facing, that they are 

facing that kind of opportunity. And that the appropriate thing to 

do is to put aside business as usual and instead come together and 

focus on what we can be doing to make this result more likely to 

happen. 

And if nothing else happens in this hearing, if no other message 

gets across, I hope people will leave with an understand that, when 

we are dealing with veterans homelessness, that is the situation we 

are facing. For way too long, veterans have been overrepresented 

among the homeless population. When modern homelessness first 

emerged in the economic crisis of the early 1980s, people would 

come back from Vietnam. A certain number of them were having 

a very hard time, and they became homeless in droves, and we let 

it happen. We didn’t really understand what homelessness was all 

about then. We didn’t know what the—what the right interventions 

were, but we didn’t do anything to stop it. And since that time, veterans homelessness has been a bigger part of the problem than it 

should be. It shouldn’t be any part of the problem. 

So, right now, we have, I think, what we have seen going beyond 

the numbers, just—a 33 percent reduction is an important thing. 

But that didn’t—it is important to understand that didn’t happen 

by coincidence, it didn’t happen by luck. It happened because a lot 

of people have been doing the right thing, including people in this 

committee, have been doing the right thing to make it happen. So 

I want to spend a couple of minutes talking about why this is 

working and a couple—and then a quick rundown of what we need 

to do next. 

It is working for a couple of reasons. One, I think there has been 

leadership at the Federal level. I think the VA, after sort of skirting around the issue for a number of years, has embraced the idea 

that they are going to have to be the leaders on this. They can’t 

look to anybody else. VA is going to have to be the leaders on this 

from the Federal Government’s point of view. 

They have understood, also, however, that they need to work 

with many others within the Federal Government, with HUD, with 

the Department of Labor, with other departments, with nonprofit 

communities all over the country to make these things happen. 

The VA set up the National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans. This has been very important. A joint project with the University of Pennsylvania where there is some—at the University of 

Pennsylvania happens to be where some of the real experts on 

homelessness around the country teach there. Dr. Dennis Culhane, 


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if any of you have never met him, if you can sit and talk with him 

about homelessness for a little while, you will feel like you are a 

smarter person than before you started talking to him. I guarantee 

it. 

The VA has put the right kind of program models in place with 

the help of Congress. Congress has authorized new programs, both 

more intensive programs that are more about long-term housing 

and supports like the HUD–VASH program. But then, as Mr. Miller started by saying, most homeless veterans don’t need long-term 

intensive help. They need short-term help to deal with a short-term 

crisis, and that is what this rapid rehousing model and the SSVF 

program are all about. Tremendously effective. 

And, finally, communities are seizing control of this issue and 

taking it upon themselves, through the leadership of mayors, 

through the leadership of veterans healthcare directors, to use the 

tools that Congress and the VA have made available and really put 

them to work and try to get results. VA is helping with that with 

various technical assistance initiatives. Other people need help as 

well. We are trying to do our part at the National Alliance to End 

Homelessness to spread that information. 

There is some work that Congress needs to do. I have outlined 

that in my written testimony. There are some short-term fixes to 

a couple of the programs that would be very important. We are 

going to have a longer-term need, as veterans homelessness gets 

down close to zero, to redesign the homeless programs to be about 

preventing homelessness. That shift from intervention to prevention will be a very important work for this committee in the next 

Congress. And we are looking forward to working with you all at 

that time. Thank you very much. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MR. STEVEN BERG APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Berg. 

Mr. Downing, it is good to see you and you are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF JOHN F. DOWNING 

Mr. DOWNING. Good morning, Mr. Miller. It is a privilege to be 

here with your committee. 

Congressman Michaud, it is great to be with you, a fellow New 

Englander, and the fellow that really, if you lived in New England, 

has really revived the Togus Medical Center and made it a facility 

that is really much more interactive with all the other facilities in 

the area. 

I am honored to be here today on behalf of Soldier On and the 

3,800 veterans we have served last year. We have become the largest provider of supportive service grants of veterans of the United 

States of America. Soldier On operates eight SSVF grants throughout five Eastern States. This was accomplished with the assistance 

of Congressman Richie Neal and James McGovern from Massachusetts; Congressman Chris Smith from New Jersey; Congressman 

Chris Gibson from New York. 

In addition to that, we serve 76 counties in Mississippi; 23 counties in Pennsylvania; and we now do the 4 western counties in 

Massachusetts. Next year, we are slated to increase the breadth 

and depth of our services and assist more than 5,300 veterans and 


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10 

family members with special focus on the chronically homeless veterans whose lives are reduced by an average of 20 years when compared to their stably housed brothers and sisters. 

The Department of Veterans Affairs’ goal to end veteran homelessness by 2015 was not a goal that could take place without examining and combatting the underlying effects that cause poverty 

and which really is the cause of homelessness. The lack of safe affordable housing, with services on site, has allowed veterans in 

poverty and those suffering from untreated and undertreated mental health and addiction disorders to be left forgotten and alone in 

their prolonged states of homelessness. 

Eliminating homelessness requires a society to look at these 

causes of poverty, which in a capitalistic society are rooted in income and cultural enrichment that we translate to mean education. 

As a result of that, the lack of those opportunities, the reality is 

that our goal has been to bring each homeless veteran back to the 

center of their life. 

With great help from the national director of homelessness, Lisa 

Pape, Soldier On became a leading grant per diem shelter bed provided for the VA. And we house every night 265 men and women 

in western Massachusetts homeless veterans, every night; 13 of 

them are women. And for 13 years, the 13 women—every woman 

that has ever come into our care—and we need to hear this—70 

percent of the homeless women that come into our care experienced 

sexual trauma before they enlisted in the military; 100 percent of 

the women in my care have suffered military sexual trauma. It is 

a dynamic that we can’t deny, and it is one that we must face more 

effectively in the Department of Defense on how we treat this 

issue. And we must begin to put women in charge of this issue and 

allow them to review and establish the standards by which we are 

going to be held accountable. And until we do that, we will continue this tragedy. 

I also want to make sure that we understand that safe, sustainable affordable housing is one of the keys to ending homelessness. 

But housing itself doesn’t do it. We need to deliver services to the 

housing. How can we continue to expect men and women who are 

chronically mentally ill, addicted, don’t have transportation, are 

underemployed, to keep three or four or five appointments a week? 

How can we expect them to find medical centers 30, 40, 50 miles 

from where they live? We must find them. We must go out and 

seek them. 

And we have been motivated by the SSVF work we do and by, 

really, the push from Vince Kane, when he was the director at the 

Center for Excellence, to get out there and do it. Not to have excuses. And so we have really worked hard at SSVF, and we are 

looking to continue to develop beautiful, affordable housing that 

veterans own and live in and deliver services to them. 

So, with the VAi2, we were awarded $6 million. And at the North 

Hampton VA in Massachusetts, we are now building 44 units of 

limited equity co-op for homeless veterans to own, live in, and have 

the services delivered to them there, and 16 units for women and 

children. And women and children, when we talk to them about 

moving to the community or moving to staying on the hospital 


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grounds, they chose to stay on the hospital grounds because they 

felt safe and secure there. 

So we need to understand that this—that the Housing First 

model really works, but it only works when we deliver services 

where people live and we must be mobile. The VA has got to get 

mobile, and we have got to stop funding this incompetent—skilled 

incompetent bureaucracy and begin to make it accountable by 

going out and identifying the veterans delivering the services 

where they live. Thank you. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN DOWNING APPEARS IN

THE APPENDIX] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Downing. 

Mr. Landis, thank you for being with us today. You are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF PHIL LANDIS 

Mr. LANDIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Phil Landis. So I am a president and a chief 

executive officers of Veterans Village of San Diego. And, sir, thank 

you for visiting us last year. 

As a matter of disclosure, you should be aware that I am a member of the VA Advisory Committee on Homeless Veterans and I am 

neither speaking for the VA, nor for the advisory committee today. 

Veterans Village of San Diego is a nationally recognized nonprofit that has served veterans since 1981. Using six pillars of prevention, intervention, treatment, aftercare, employment services, 

and housing, VVSD assists veterans who have substance abuse and 

mental health issues, including men and women recently returned 

from Iraq and Afghanistan. 

Working with addiction case managers and mental health professionals, residents have an opportunity to rebuild lives, repair relationships, and return to society as productive citizens. Housing 

First is an admirable and reasonable idea for many homeless veterans. In fact, since October of 2013, we have placed over 550 Veterans into permanent housing. However, for veterans with co-occurring disorders, housing without treatment is a major risk factor 

and, if left untreated or unmanaged, becomes progressive and life 

threatening. 

VA is putting a preponderance of their homeless Dollars into repaid rehousing and VASH. They have eliminated new funding for 

grant and per diem. Grant and per diem funding focuses on treatment and employment for transitional housing. And there is a need 

for both. To substantially reduce or eliminate grant and per diem 

beds would be short-sighted and, quite frankly, disastrous. 

Since the inception of our Supportive Services for Veteran Families, SSVF, program in 2013, we have assisted 263 veteran households who are homeless or at risk of becoming homeless into stable 

housing. This program is a great tool in fighting homelessness 

amongst the veteran population. The program prevents homelessness amongst veteran families and works with those who are homeless to rapidly enter permanent housing and utilizing the Housing 

First model. 

This model works very well for many of the post 9/11 generation 

who only need a hand up. One of the benefits of the Housing First 


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model is the singular focus on addressing the participants’ housing 

crisis. However, we have seen that the SSVF participants and others who are not ready to address their primary cause of homelessness, whether it is substance abuse or mental health issues, are 

not ready to maintain long-term housing stability. Therefore, having the option to be in a formal treatment setting or transitional 

housing program benefits them in the long run and gives them the 

opportunity to work on their barriers prior to obtaining permanent 

housing. 

Our experience indicates that when a homeless veteran is denied 

the opportunity for a rehabilitation program or prematurely departs from a rehabilitation program in the VASH housing, unless 

intensive services continue, the risk of relapse, ending up in prison, 

or death occurs far too often. And here are just a few recent examples from our program: A veteran is placed into VASH housing that 

experienced severe, unintended consequences. Danielle, age 30, 

combat vet, within 2 weeks in VASH apartment, relapsed on heroin. She is now in jail. Michael, age 57, relapsed a short time after 

moving into VASH housing, lost his home and is now in prison. 

Thomas, age 41, was very active in a recovery program and community. Transitioned into VASH housing. Relapsed on methamphetamine within 3 months. Vernon, age 63, transitioned into 

VASH housing, relapsed on drug, now in prison. Phillip, age 33, 

combat vet going to school on the GI bill, school funding fell 

through due to low grades, relapsed on alcohol. He is currently 

awaiting transfer to a State prison. Walter, age 51, worked in active recovery program, found dead in VASH apartment in August 

of 2014. The medical examiner reported cause of death was alcohol 

related. Scott relapsed and lost apartment within 2 months. James, 

age 56, relapsed 1 month later, now in jail. 

You kind of get the idea. 

Now, here is one that we really need to pay attention to because 

it seems to be under the radar: Joe Vaughn, age 27, combat vet, 

was in a long-term residential treatment program. Doing extremely 

well. When he received his VA 100 percent disability rating, the 

HUD income cap rule forced us to exit him from the program. We 

are seeing more and more of that. It might be something you would 

like to focus on. 

Homeless veterans who have lost their way due to substance use 

and/or mental health issues have also lost their job. And they have 

lost their community, their identity, their support system, their 

sense of camaraderie, their mission in life, and their financial stability. Programs that would provide housing but fail to address 

these underlying unmet needs will set veterans up for failure. 

For those who are situationally homeless due to a recent family 

crisis, job loss, or medical condition, the Housing First model is 

truly ideal. 

For those who are chronically homeless due to mental health 

issues, substance use, long-term medical conditions and/or criminal 

justice involvement, it is imperative to implement an assessment 

protocol that could triage the neediest, most vulnerable, high-risk, 

and disenfranchised veterans for whom residential treatment is essential. 


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Our goals at VVSD is to break the cycle of homelessness among 

veterans and their families. In order for us to succeed in our efforts, we think it is crucial that we address the various reasons veterans become homeless in the first place. Not all veterans are 

ready to sustain themselves in housing. Not every veteran will 

have substance abuse or mental health challenges. 

But having both an SSVF and a veteran treatment center in the 

same agency allows us to make a substantial difference in the veteran community. One size does not fit all. And Housing First, at 

the exclusion of everything else, is just plain nonsense. 

In conclusion, at Veterans Village of San Diego, we believe intensive services leads to self-sustaining independence and a maximizing of human potential and a meaningful, fulfilling life. Our 

veterans are worthy of nothing less. Thank you, sir. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MR. PHIL LANDIS APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Landis. 

Dr. O’Donnell, you are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF CASEY O’DONNELL, PSY.D. 

Dr. O’DONNELL. Good morning, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member Michaud, and esteemed committee members. Thank you for the 

opportunity to offer this testimony. 

My name is Casey O’Donnell. I am currently the chief operating 

officer of Impact Services Corporation in Philadelphia. For the last 

20 years, Impact has been providing both housing and employmentfocused programs to homeless veterans who suffer from both mental illness and substance abuse. 

Impact’s current continuum of housing includes 150 beds of both 

transitional and permanent housing. Impact’s program was one of 

the first and was one of the few programs in the Nation exclusively 

serving dually diagnosed formerly homeless veterans. 

Since 1994, Impact has also been providing employment services 

through the Department of Labor’s Homeless Veteran Reintegration Program. In addition to these programs, Impact has recently 

received surge priority one funding. 

Finally, Impact will break ground on 26 units of affordable permanent housing for low-income veterans and their families, focusing on females, on Monday, December 15th. You are all welcome 

to join us for the groundbreaking. 

We are working in close collaboration with the VA National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans to provide all of these services from a trauma-informed care model. I was invited to participate in the National Center’s work group to implement trauma-informed care across the nation, both within the VA and among community-based providers. 

The national center has been an invaluable collaborative partner 

in the provision of care to homeless veterans, and the center’s work 

related to training and implementation will be critical to success. 

Men and women who have proudly served our country through 

military service should not be allowed to suffer in addiction and 

mental illness on the streets of any city for one night longer. It is 

all of our jobs to find veterans safe places to live, recover from trauma and substance abuse, and improve the quality of their lives. 


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In fact, it is believed by those of who us who are providers that 

trauma informed care is necessary to eradicate homelessness 

among veterans. 

Setting the deadline of December 31, 2015, to end homelessness 

among veterans has become a critically important milestone for our 

country. Impact has been extremely active in the 25 Cities Initiative to end veteran homelessness in Philadelphia. The deadline is 

producing hard work, determination, and teamwork. 

Over the last 11 months, with our many collaborative partners, 

we have placed 556 homeless veterans in permanent housing in 

Philadelphia. We have approximately 540 veterans left to house before the deadline of December 31st, 2015. The goal of ending veteran homelessness in Philadelphia is within our sights. We are 

ending veteran homelessness in Philadelphia by developing a safety net system that catches veterans before they become homeless, 

provides intervention, when necessary, to keep them housed, and 

gets them housed again if they have slipped back into homelessness. This safety net is important as we look at veterans who 

served in Iraq and Afghanistan who are potentially vulnerable and 

may be headed toward homelessness. 

Research provided by the National Center on Homelessness 

Among Veterans suggests that this rapid safety net approach is allowing approximately 80 percent of veterans to stay housed after 

90 days of case management and temporary financial assistance 

through SSVF. Recent data provided by the City of Philadelphia’s 

Office of Supportive Housing also shows that the number of actual 

homeless veterans on the streets and in many programs in Philadelphia have decreased by 15 percent in the last year. We expect 

that percentage to dramatically decrease in 2015 and come to functional zero by January of 2016. 

The safety net system has only been possible within the context 

of real partnerships that are being forged between the community 

and the VA as part of the 25 Cities Initiative in response to the 

deadline. These partnerships have brought HUD, the VA, local municipalities, housing authorities, and community organizations like 

Impact to a common table where systems have been changed by 

bringing two continuums, the city and the VA, into alignment on 

outreach and assessment and eventually on placement and retention to ensure that veterans are being moved into housing. 

Further, I would like to say that housing without jobs or increased benefits is only a short-term strategy. Supportive housing, 

integrated with programs to get vets into jobs and/or access to benefits or increased benefits, provides a long-term recipe for self-sufficiency. We would like to see the VA and the Department of Labor 

work closely to integrate community-based job training and job development into current housing activities funded for veterans. A 

good place to start would be a pilot with community-based veteran 

organizations like Impact to better integrate SSFV, grant and per 

diem, HUD–VASH, and housing with HVRP programs. 

Finally, Impact currently operates four grant per diem programs 

that move homeless veterans through various stages of recovery to 

self-sufficiency according to their needs. Our program is currently 

full. It is full because there remains a critical need for grant and 

per diem to provide stable housing and services for veterans. ImVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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pact is extremely interested in working with Congress and the VA 

to test out several additional models of housing, utilizing the VA’s 

grant and per diem program as the foundation of funding. Specifically, we would like to see a percentage of grant and per diem vets 

converted to provide supportive services and permanent housing, as 

opposed to only transitional housing, for formerly homeless veterans with mental health and substance abuse issues that require 

a higher degree of support than independent living can provide. 

In conclusion, on behalf of my colleagues at Impact, myself, and 

the veterans that we serve, I would like to thank the members of 

the committee for this opportunity to testify. Thank you for listening. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MR. CASEY O’DONNELL APPEARS

IN THE APPENDIX] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

Dr. Sherin, you are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF JON SHERIN, M.D., PH.D. 

Dr. SHERIN. Thank you, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member 

Michaud, and the committee for convening today’s hearing. My 

name is Jon Sherin. I am a psychiatrist and neurobiologist by 

trade. Though not a veteran myself, I have spent my entire professional life serving veterans of the United States military. 

It was just 5 months ago that I testified in this same forum on 

the issue of suicide in the veteran community, and it honors me 

deeply to be here again testifying on homelessness, another true 

emergency confronting too many former servicemembers. 

As a reminder, I worked for over a decade in VA, last as chief 

of mental health at the Miami VA. Three years ago, I left that post 

to join Volunteers of America, a large nonprofit whose legacy in 

this arena dates back to serving Civil War veterans. Today, providing for veterans is Volunteers of America’s top priority. Alongside VA, this past year alone, we housed and supported roughly 

20,000 homeless veterans in communities across the Nation. 

Let me begin my testimony by making clear that ending veteran 

homelessness will require more than finding shelter for all homeless veterans. It will also require making sure that they have timely access to both a full range of services, including family support, 

mental healthcare, addiction treatment, legal aid, benefits assistance, and financial coaching, as well as a full range of opportunities, including education, training, and meaningful jobs. 

At present, there are a number of Federal programs that have 

been very effective at bringing homeless veteran numbers down, 

due in large part to congressional support. Further success will rely 

upon Congress continuing to provide unprecedented resource and 

oversight to these efforts within Federal agencies—within Federal 

agencies but also in relation to multisector partnerships. To this 

end, I applaud the committee for inviting input from the partners 

on this panel. In the remainder of my testimony, I will summarize 

recommendations for select Federal programs and suggest adding 

a peer-to-peer strategy that could bolster our efforts. 

Regarding select Federal programs, the following recommendations are made based on my own personal experience and input 

from numerous colleagues in both the VA and in the community. 


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They are meant as guidelines to more effectively help homeless veterans. In markets where VA’s grant and per diem transitional 

housing inventory is not fully utilized, it should be repurposed to 

better match local supply with local demand and funded accordingly. No inventory should be dismantled, shelved, or otherwise deactivated until we end veteran homelessness. The VA’s safe haven 

transitional program is highly effective for chronic, recidivistic 

homeless veterans and has changed the life trajectory of many veterans for whom all other interventions have failed, some over the 

course of decades. These programs tend to be full and, as such, 

more safe haven inventory needs to be developed. 

HUD and VA’s HUD–VASH permanent housing program is highly effective but only when adequately enriched by services alongside housing, in accordance with the Housing First model. In markets where VA is not equipped to provide adequate services, it is 

recommended that community partners be leveraged to do so. 

The Support Services for Veteran Families program, SSVF, created and administered by VA’s National Center for Homelessness 

Amongst Veterans in Philadelphia, is a game changer that has successfully served a massive number of veterans in a short period of 

time through a streamlined partnership process. It makes sense to 

expand the scope and the reach of this program by including mental health as well as employment offerings and by loosening eligibility requirements. 

In terms of a peer-to-peer strategy, it would make sense to activate a robust, community-based workforce of trained and certified 

peers who can drive outreach resource navigation and advocacy for 

homeless veterans. Peers could be deployed to suitable VA campuses, housing facilities, and service centers and charged to connect homeless veterans to both VA and community resources. They 

could also be leveraged for the same purpose through the homeless 

crisis line, 211 exchanges, and Web-based portals such POS REP. 

Resource to fuel this workforce could be generated by approving 

veteran and peer-support training for VA work study and/or by enrichment of the support services grant. 

In conclusion, we must actively embrace a philosophy, create a 

culture and insist on policies that hold us accountable for addressing the vast array of challenges known to emerge for some veterans 

in the context of civilian life because it is these challenges that predictably precede the loss of a place to call home, something all of 

us need for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is through 

your informed legislative stewardship that our country can promote 

conditions in which all sectors come together to form cohesive 

American communities that welcome veterans home, ensure they 

receive the services they need, and provide them ample opportunities to thrive. Thank you very much for hearing my testimony. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF DR. JON SHERIN APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you all for your testimony today. We appreciate it, and any parts of your statement that were not read will 

be entered into the record as well. 

I think we all believe that ending veteran homelessness is an important goal. It is a laudable goal, but getting to zero is very difVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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ficult. I think, Dr. O’Donnell, you had remarked about functional 

zero. Can you tell me what ‘‘functional zero’’ really means? 

Mr. O’DONNELL. So there is actually an equation. I am sure 

someone in our audience can identify what that equation is. It is 

based on an average number of veterans housed for 3 months as 

compared to the number that are left. That is not the—the whole 

equation. 

For us, it is ensuring—it is a more functional definition to ensure 

that there are enough slots of the appropriate kind of housing 

available for those that are left. Right. So as we decrease that 

number—so for Philadelphia, I believe it is 540 veterans, ensuring 

that each of those folks have the appropriate space to come to. So 

I personally don’t ever believe that we will be at zero. Right. It is 

about the safety net. But functional zero is ensuring that each person has the appropriate level of care, hopefully, that that would indicate that they would stay there for longer with the appropriate 

level of services. 

The CHAIRMAN. Those of you that provide group housing or housing in large numbers, how many or what percentage of your residents will never be able to get over that final hump, and will always be with us, with you? 

Mr. Landis, then Mr. Downing, both. 

Mr. DOWNING. Thank you. Go ahead. 

Mr. LANDIS. Our population may be a subset of those that we 

treat at our rehabilitation center. Two-thirds of our residents have 

diagnosable chronic mental illness by the time they find us; 70 percent of the population have already been incarcerated; of the 

younger generation, the post-9/11 men and women, the statistic for 

incarceration is about 85 percent. We know that, for the vast majority of these men and women, many will be able to deal with 

their demons. They will be able to move forward, but they are not 

going to do it in isolation. It is only going to happen after intensive 

long-term residential treatment. It is not going to happen if that 

does not occur simultaneously, either with housing or with some 

form of a long-term treatment center. There is a subset of this population that will require our assistance for the rest of their lives, 

perhaps 25 percent. 

But the rest, you know, if we do it right, what they should look 

forward to is a life that is balanced and a life where they have employment, because employment is a key factor in, I believe, happiness. They should be able to be self-sustaining. And they should be 

able to get on with the world as the way that we do in our own 

normal lives. But I would say, to answer your question, sir, a good 

25 percent of this population is going to require our care for the 

rest of their lives. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Downing. 

Mr. DOWNING. We look to shut down approximately 80 percent 

of our per diem beds over the next 5 years. We think about 80 percent of the men and women we serve can really function and grow 

living in their own dwelling with services delivered to them. And 

there are various levels of services people need. 

On the average, in the community where we are working, what 

we are finding is veterans, essentially 50 and over, who have been 

homeless and chronically mentally ill for extended periods, can 


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work about 15 or 20 hours a week when they are really back to 

the center of their life. So if you look at those type of entry-level, 

limited-income jobs, with some supportive services and some small 

benefits, either from Social Security or the VA, somebody can have 

a comfortable life in supported housing with services delivered. So 

we think that that is a reasonable number. 

We also believe that trauma-informed care, which has been mentioned here this morning, is an extremely important training that 

we all need to be continuously growing in because everyone that is 

in our care benefits from that. And what we have found, as we— 

we did some training with the National Alliance on Homelessness 

on trauma-informed care for the past year in our facilities—and all 

our staff has gone through it—and what we are finding is that 

where much people are much—feeling much safer discussing things 

that previously were kind of glossed over, pushed to the side. And 

I think that that is the type of thing that we need to get better at. 

So, to me, I don’t think we are ever going to end homelessness. 

I think about 20 percent of the people are either in the category 

of we don’t have the skill or ability to figure out how to manage 

their needs better or we have some folks who somehow seem comfortable in that lifestyle. So, you know, we accept that. We would 

like to change that, but I don’t think we can. 

I don’t know how you feel there, big guy. 

The CHAIRMAN. I apologize. I need to move to Mr. Michaud. 

Mr. LANDIS. I am sorry. 

The CHAIRMAN [continuing]. We have other questions, but thank 

you. 

Mr. Michaud. 

Mr. MICHAUD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

This is for each of the panelist. Do you see any overlap between 

the three major programs funded by the VA, VASH, GPD, SSVF? 

And we will start with Ms. Crone. 

Ms. CRONE. Mr. Berg here will probably laugh at me because I 

always say that there are four critical programs when we are talking about programs essential for ending veteran homelessness, and 

I would include HVRP in that mix. I know it is funded through Department of Labor. 

Like I mentioned in my statement, we don’t look at the programs 

that exist and the people we are going to push into those programs. 

We look at each individual veteran and what their specific needs 

are. If you have—if you have a veteran who comes into a program 

and is in need of intensive services, multiple co-occurring disabilities, that person might be in transitional housing for a short period of time and move into HUD–VASH housing, using a HUD– 

VASH voucher. In that case, they are using both of those resources, 

but there are stepping stones to get that person into permanent 

housing. 

On the other side, you may have someone who comes in who 

needs a short-term intervention and assistance with employment 

and services because they are unemployed, but they want to go 

back to work. They may be enrolled in SSVF to help them pay for 

their security deposit, and they may get employment services 

through HVRP. In that case, they are using two programs, but they 


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are using the best practices of what those programs are meant to 

provide in order to get themselves—— 

Mr. BERG. Yes. Thank you. 

I would say one of the real advances that people who work on 

the issue of homelessness all over the country have made is understanding this idea that different homeless people need different levels of care and to set up a system with an array of interventions 

that are designed for that. And I think the three programs you 

mentioned, not to leave out HVRP, but those are the three big 

housing programs, and there are aligning themselves in many cities with that in mind. And SSFV deals with people for whom a 

short-term intervention is most appropriate. HUD–VASH is for the 

people with long-term permanent disabilities. GPD works well for 

people in sort of a middle group, really concentrating on recovery 

housing. There is always some overlap. You are never sure because 

people, once they get in a program like this, a lot of times, they 

improve tremendously. But I think that array of programs is the 

right one, and it is working well. 

Mr. DOWNING. I would agree with that, Mr. Michaud. Also, just 

from my viewpoint, I think the HUD–VASH case manager should 

all be outsourced to community-based groups. I think they are 

much more geared to housing search. They are much better at 

working at it. There are professional agencies in the community 

that they should partner with to do that. I think trying to train 

people and bring them up to speed on that is just kind of insanity 

when there are so many groups—especially if you look at what has 

happened with CAP agencies in the Community Action Programs, 

have really done housing search extremely well in our communities. And we should be funding them with the VASH money to 

do it for our veterans, I believe. 

The GPD program, I believe, has done a great job. And I think 

downsizing everybody can see coming. For SSVF, I really think this 

is what we have to get in our head: SSVF leverages tremendous 

amounts of community assets to work along with the VA Dollars. 

So what we have discovered is the average veteran who we serve 

in SSVF, we are spending somewhere between $2,400 to $4,400. 

Somebody in GPD for a year costs us $42,000. But when we do the 

24 to 42 in the community, we are also bringing in communitybased addiction services, we are bringing in finance management 

agencies, we are bringing in mental health agencies to work to help 

us stabilize, all at a different cost center and all available to other 

citizens. So that leveraging has really made, I think, that program 

much more effective. And I think it is why we are seeing the tremendous results with it. 

Mr. LANDIS. If you develop a continuum of care within an agency, 

each one of these three programs complement the other and seem 

to work very well together. 

Dr. SHERIN. There is definitely an overlap, but not redundancy, 

and I think that is the key element here. 

Mr. O’DONNELL. I think that these are distinct programs. I would 

beg to differ with the concept of deactivating any grant per diem 

inventory, as I said in my testimony. I believe that that is critical 

inventory around the Nation that can be used to do things in addition to grant per diem housing, including bridge housing, rescue 


VACREP180 with DISTILLER
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housing. In addition, it could be used for permanent housing or 

permanent supportive housing. It could even be used for assisted 

living down the road, depending on the needs of the local community. I would also reiterate one of my co-panelists comments about 

HUD–VASH case management. Communities are very wellequipped to do this actually in a more efficient and cheaper, less 

expensive rather, manner. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bilirakis, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BILIRAKIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. I want 

to thank Ranking Member Michaud for his advocacy on behalf of 

our veterans and being a great friend to our true American heroes 

over the year. It is been an honor to serve with you, sir. 

The first question is for the entire panel. Last week, the Virginia 

Inspector General issued a report that found serious problems with 

VA’s national call center for homeless veterans. The report found 

that the VA missed 40,500 opportunities to engage homeless veteran callers with needed services due to lapses in management and 

oversight, and I know the chairman mentioned this in his opening 

statement. 

Furthermore, the IG’s audit found that the majority of messages 

were left between 11 a.m. and 3 p.m. during the day. The report 

also stated that counselors spent significant amounts of time unavailable to answer calls during peak calls. This is during peak 

time periods. This is unacceptable. For the panel, were you surprised by the IG’s findings regarding the call center? What are 

your personal experiences? I would like to hear from you. How 

would you suggest VA improve the call center’s performance, and 

who do you think should be responsible for operating and overseeing the call center, and I guess we will start with Ms. Crone. 

Ms. CRONE. NCHV has said publicly when this came out that we 

take this report very seriously, and it is completely unacceptable 

that any veteran in crisis, any veteran in need reaching out to 

something that should be operating 24/7 should go to voice mail. 

We are going to be following the progress on addressing these steps 

very closely because it is meaningful to us on a national level and 

to our members. We believe that the steps that are laid out to address the various issues with the call centers seem reasonable. We 

are going to be watching those very closely to make sure that they 

happen and that the timelines are stuck to. But what is important 

to remember with the call center is that it is a small piece, or it 

is a piece of the overall outreach effort that we have to homeless 

veterans within communities. The providers on this panel and the 

organizations that we work with, those are the people who are 

going out on the streets, that are under bridges, that are in shelters, that are looking for veterans in need of services. 

So it is important to keep this in that bigger context, that these 

veterans are likely receiving services, and it is thanks to the community providers that are doing that through funding resources 

like SSVF. But, again, we will be watching it really closely. 

Mr. BERG. I think the steps the VA appears to be taking to address the findings in here seem like the right thing to do. I think 

the IG is doing the IG’s job, which is good. That is why they are 

there. We need to have things like this work. We need to also not 

get distracted from the major goal of what is going on. When someVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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thing like this comes up, this is important, get it fixed; or if it is 

just not going to work, then get rid of it, and keep moving forward 

with stuff that works. That is our view. 

Mr. Bilirakis. Mr. Downing. 

Mr. DOWNING. Well, this was run by VHA, and it kind of boggles 

your mind that we have the 800 number for homeless and people 

in need going to VHA and not running it through the homeless program that has a lot of community partners and is used to contracting with community partners to provide service. Because I 

would suggest to you, again, that agencies like myself and others 

that operate 800 numbers are very good at responding to people 24 

hours a day, are very good at getting the information to where it 

has to go so people get the critical intervention that we need to prevent a tragedy. 

So I think that what we really have to do is challenge the VA 

again to look within itself and look at where is the competency in 

this group, and let that group of competent individuals operate it. 

And I think it is shameful that we just put it out there and say 

because we have done it and we have all this information flying 

around, it is going to work. I operate an 800 number for SSVF. I 

operate it with homeless veterans answering the phone 24 hours a 

day, and when you call and you are in one of our areas, we have 

a veteran, a case manager, in your home within 48 hours, any of 

the five states you are in that we work in. But we have learned 

that we have to get the information, respond to it, and have 

backups, and you need to have community partners that respond 

where you are weak; and that is what we are not doing with the 

VA. And I know, and I just can’t believe with the history of the 

homeless program and its ability to contract, that that is not the 

perfect thing that should have been moved through them to do the 

outreach to veterans. 

Mr. BILIRAKIS. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, and now to the incoming 

ranking member, Ms. Brown, you are recognized. 

Ms. BROWN. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, 

I think this is a great day to talk about the fact that we have cut 

out one-third of the homelessness and we are moving in the right 

direction, and I have been on this committee for 22 years, and we 

have been working and discussing it for 22 years, and I do think 

there is a lot more we need to do, and certainly working with those 

stakeholders is extremely important. Our partners, like you said, 

the mayors, the different groups and organizations, we are moving 

forward, and I am very pleased with that. 

I guess what is still very disturbing to me is the number of 

homeless veterans’ families, when I see the children of just the veterans and the children and when I run into a mother and she can’t 

have the children because there is not adequate housing. Can you 

address that for me, please? Either one of you. 

Mr. O’DONNELL. If I may, this is exactly the reason we are opening these 26 units, and they will be available in September 2015. 

It took us 5 years to get where we needed to be to have the support 

to do this, but you are right. One of the problems is, especially in 

Philadelphia, there is very few places—I know of one—for a woman 

to find shelter with her children. There are single fathers also with 


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children, and we welcome them into the program, so many of those 

women have a fractured family for no other reason than their being 

homeless. So programs like ours will offer the opportunity to partner with, in Philadelphia it is DHS, Department of Human Services, to reunite moms and their kids. And there is a growing need. 

Twenty-six units isn’t nearly enough. 

Dr. SHERIN. Just a comment on that. At Volunteers of America, 

we have a great deal of a commitment to homeless families. We 

have facilities around the country that are focusing on this. We just 

are in the process of opening up a 78-unit facility in San Pedro 

called the Blue Butterfly Village specifically for homeless female 

veterans and their families. 

We also just opened one in Chicago called Hope Manor II. This 

is a critical issue, and when you think about the stressors on family of serving, it is no surprise that we have this challenge. And I 

think when we look to funding through the Federal Government, 

we need to create the flexibility to create these programs. I can tell 

you that the Blue Butterfly Village in San Pedro took almost 15 

years to get developed, and one of the reasons for that is that we 

couldn’t get easements due to interference from the DoD. 

Ms. BROWN. The key is there is a multiplicity of things. We cannot sit here and think that just getting a person a house is the answer. The homeless person had a house, but they need the counseling. They need the support services. They need the employment. 

So it is really us working with the stakeholders. It is not just getting a person temporary housing. They have really fallen through 

the safety net. 

Mr. DOWNING. You are absolutely right, Ms. Brown, and I think 

that the issue again, and I want to go back to what Doc said. We 

need to be able to build affordable housing more rapidly, and we 

need to create priorities. And one of the issues is we are forced, because veterans are not a protected class under the Fair Housing 

Act, we have to compete with every other community of need for 

affordable housing money. There have been some special, the areas 

done on tax credits where there have been set-asides for stuff built 

in a medical zone, and we can get veterans housing lined up. I am 

doing that in Mississippi. And we are looking at models and we are 

working on models where we can utilize tax credits and integrate 

them with the affordable housing money to make it happen more 

rapidly. 

I have four projects under construction right now, and the fastest 

one is 31⁄2 years from the day we started. So it has been a long run. 

In the 5 years that I have been at it, I have got 39 units completed 

with people living in them for 3 years. It operates beautifully, but 

it is going to take a long time, and so there is a whole structure 

on the housing issue that we need to work on. 

Ms. BROWN. Mr. Downing, I think you said something very important. Many of these programs are already in the community. It 

is just how do we partner with them, with these stakeholders. They 

are very good at finding housing and that supportive services that 

is needed. 

Mr. DOWNING. Yes, ma’am. One of the things that has made me 

a great fan of Jeff Miller is that he absolutely attacks bureaucracy 

for the sake of the consumer. We need to be doing that on these 


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issues because the tragedy is this, and this is the hard part. What 

motivates me to do the work is simply this: 8 or 9 percent of the 

American people are veterans. Every one of them that put on that 

uniform for a day said to all of us, I will die for you. We need to 

clearly hear that that sets that community apart for services and 

opportunity ahead of every other group in America; and we need 

to make that sacred, and this committee has done more, I think for 

that, than any other group in America in bringing it to light and 

in getting the government agencies focused on that, and I really 

thank you all for that. I think it allows us to do our work with 

more dignity, and also with a sense of hope that we might not have 

had 10 years ago. 

Ms. BROWN. Thank you very much. I yield back the balance of 

my time. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Dr. Roe, you are recognized. 

Dr. ROE. Thank you, Chairman. I also associate my remarks with 

what you said about Mr. Michaud. It has been a pleasure. 

I think probably part of the VA and the bureaucracy, Mr. Downing, you share, Dr. O’Donnell, and I share with all of you. Setting 

up an 800 number doesn’t fix anything if nobody answers the 

phone. So I think the people that solve the problem, I am sitting 

here looking at right here. Let me share with you a little bit of my 

frustration. At the Blue Butterfly Village, it may actually be about 

as long as that VA hospital in Florida that Ms. Brown has talked 

about since I have been here to get done. We had a flood in our 

area three years ago, tremendous flood. It took out about 100 

homes. We weren’t big enough for FEMA to help us. We took the 

local mayors, private-public partnerships, and we built 35 homes 

for these people in a year, had them in the homes, ready to go. 

We are beginning to do that for veterans now, and we are using 

the Appalachian Service Project in East Tennessee. We are using 

private funds. We are using public funds. We can build a home for 

cheaper than the VA can rehab a house where we are. The biggest 

problem we are having, and I was going to ask Dr. O’Donnell this, 

the biggest problem we have with the HUD–VASH program and 

others is there is not enough housing stock. That is the biggest 

problem we have got. If we had more housing stock, we have got 

the vouchers; we just don’t have a place to put the veterans. We 

just broke ground on several—it will make a little dent like you. 

In 8 or 9 months we will have seven apartments where we are for 

veterans. But that’s the biggest challenge we have. 

And the other challenge Mr. Downing brought up is this case 

management. It takes the VA forever to get a case manager. Those 

assets are already in the private community if they would just unleash them. And everything you have heard, I have heard in my 

own community. The VA needs to be a little less paternalistic and 

work with people like you all that are able to go out and do these 

services rapidly. Because somebody living under a bridge tonight is 

freezing. It is cold, and we need to get them off the street now and 

get them in this not just 6 months from now, but it is an emergency. I will start with in Philadelphia, how are those 500-plus 

folks going to get, what are you going to do with that? That would 

be the biggest challenge I see is where do you find 500 safe places 

that are approved for them to live in? 


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Mr. O’DONNELL. So collaboration with landlords, not my doing. 

It is a collaborative effort and there are landlords that, you know, 

want to do well and do good. So they are private owners that get 

approved to provide HUD–VASH housing, so having direct contact 

with landlords, but again, the 25 cities initiative—in Philadelphia 

it is called a boot camp. I don’t know if it is called that elsewhere, 

but people get together in a room regularly. There is Mr. Steve 

Culbertson who else in the audience there helps lead this effort. 

They get together and they identify every name on the list. So in 

truth, there are more than 540 homeless veterans left in Philadelphia. Those are the names on that list that get reviewed regularly 

with benchmarks that we need to hit constantly. And that group 

holds themselves accountable and it is about partnership, and clarity, and communication, and also about transparency, which is at 

the heart of some of this. 

Dr. ROE. Let me ask this, a little more global question. Are all 

the VA programs that we have, are they interconnected enough or 

do we need to have a review and say okay, let’s make it simple and 

easier for organizations like you that are on the outside looking in? 

Is there a way to do that? 

Dr. SHERIN. What I would say is that in the past several years 

that the National Center For Homelessness Amongst Veterans has 

created a new paradigm for partnership with community, which is 

one of the reasons why the SSVF program is so effective. When we 

talk about issues like the call center, communities are set up to do 

this type of work. We are set up to do intensive case management 

for HUD–VASH. I would strongly recommend that the VA consider 

leveraging the National Center For Homelessness Amongst Veterans to establish a larger continuum of services with communities 

around the Nation because it can do it in a much more streamlined 

fashion than through the VISNs and the medical centers. 

Dr. ROE. There are local housing authorities that already has 

that case management set up. All you have to do is let them do it. 

I mean, they are already doing it right now. It would be really simple. But now you go and find a case manager. They got to be 

trained. They got to do all this—I don’t know whether you all have 

run into that or not. I certainly have. 

Mr. DOWNING. We would find the same thing. Look it, the bottom 

line is, the VA is going to continue to do these things unless it is 

demanded otherwise, you know. And we deal with all types of 

issues. But the reality for me is this: If I look at veterans and 

where they live, and as I go into rural areas, I am shocked at Vietnam veterans that we are identifying, 30 percent of the Vietnam 

veterans we identify in the five States we are in in rural America 

are at 30 percent of median income or less; 60 percent are at 50 

percent of median income or less. So, you know, we have to see 

that individuals left unserved, unhoused, and not being cared for 

continuously have diminished power to help themselves. 

Dr. ROE. Yes. 

Mr. DOWNING. So we need to rethink that, and I have become 

more and more convinced, at some point, we have to give every veteran his card with his benefits loaded up in it and let him choose 

to go to the VA or choose to go to a community provider or a community hospital, because until we do that, I don’t think we are 


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going to utilize the resources that are available that we all continuously refer to. 

Do you know what I am saying? I just think we need to somehow 

manage that out, and I don’t know how else to manage it out without leveraging the Dollars. And it is frustrating because we watch 

the same thing you watch, sir, that there is services here, and we 

are sitting with people being trained over here while people dwindle out of their housing voucher based on the fact that they can’t 

get services. 

I mean, it is difficult, so I would like to see that change. 

Dr. ROE. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Takano, you are recognized. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is for any of the 

panelists. I have heard from providers in my district that most 

funding available for creating new housing options for homeless 

veterans and homeless people in general is for capital costs, in 

other words, for startup and construction costs, rather than operations and maintenance. And while funding for capital costs is obviously very important, the providers in my district say they have 

trouble funding operations and maintenance. 

Do you believe this is a problem, and do you think that funding 

for this type of housing should be more flexible? For any of you, 

Mr. Landis, Mr. Downing. 

Mr. LANDIS. In my experience, planning the capital cost to build 

a project, although it is difficult and complex, pales in comparison 

to your point in that the funding for services is just not there, or 

there isn’t much of it. And the two go hand in hand. You can’t just 

have a place to live, and without being able to provide extensive 

services to the veterans that are in place, as I mentioned earlier, 

you are going to have veterans that fail in their housing and they 

lose their stable housing. 

So the operational funding is critical to maintaining the stability 

of the vast majority of these men and women whom we are placing 

into housing. 

Mr. Takano. Mr. Downing. 

Mr. DOWNING. We found that operations were an issue until we 

got involved with SSVF and learned to build partnerships better 

with other community-based agencies, and it also gave us personnel in the area where we were doing housing. So you have staff 

with that. So what we have developed in our SSVF grants is we 

employ in all of our SSVF grants approximately five to seven veterans who work as peers, who do nothing but provide transportation for you to your appointments, or bring your appointments to 

you, depending on what the need is. 

And what we have found, again, is that is really where it works. 

What causes the cost to go up in services is when you have to rely 

on a source, and I would assume all of us have learned that the 

more we can partner this out, we can do it. The second thing is, 

in building, I build nothing but limited equity cooperatives for the 

veterans to own and manage. The reason I do it is twofold. Number 

one, they pay taxes to the community we build them in, so I don’t 

have that pushback that it is more non-taxable property. The second thing is, our cost of operations of maintenance is at 40 percent 

of the national average because people who own where they live, 


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when we say to our vets, you can go out and help us shovel the 

sidewalk, or we can pay guys 15 bucks an hour to do it, and they 

say, oh, no, if you are paying them 15, that is less income for us 

and our cooperative. Our costs go up. They get that. So we are finding that model works. There is ways to do these things. We just 

have to do the partnerships. I think if we can get the housing up, 

we will maintain it. Okay, I believe that. 

Mr. Berg. 

Mr. BERG. I think an analogy is to look at the private sector. In 

the private sector landlords don’t get grants for operating costs. 

They collect rent. And from the rent, they pay the operating costs. 

Congress has put a lot of money on the table for rent subsidies for 

homeless veterans through the HUD–VASH program and through 

the SSVF program. I think what is starting to happen is, people 

who do veterans’ housing, do site-based housing, are starting to 

change the way they do business a little bit in order to figure out 

how to use the rent subsidies as ways to finance that. I think it 

is realistic and it seems to be working. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, Mr. Berg, can you explain to me more in detail your suggestion to put in place a system that will find vulnerable veterans before they ever become homeless and prevent their 

homelessness entirely. Do you think the VA is heading in that direction already? 

Mr. BERG. I think they are starting to head in that direction. 

And this is the long term vision. We need to end veterans’ homelessness. And we are on track to do that. But then once we do that, 

we need to make sure it never comes back, and really transform 

into a prevention system. I think VA is already starting to do 

things like veterans who come into the health services facilities get 

asked certain questions to try to assess what their housing stability 

is, and then that information gets, at least the way it is supposed 

to work, and it does work this way in the places where it works 

well, that information gets transferred to people who can do something about it. 

Mr. TAKANO. I mean, there seems to be certain higher-risk folks 

who are servicemembers, people who have been trained to disarm 

IEDs and who we know have been in more intense battles. It seems 

to me DoD should be able to provide data on these individuals and 

we can track these individuals as they move into—it ought to be 

that we are identifying more high-risk individuals. 

Mr. BERG. Exactly. This is a future challenge. DoD knows a lot 

about people who are in the military, and it would be very helpful 

if they would share key information like that with VA as part of 

a sort of a—— 

Mr. TAKANO. They don’t currently share that information? 

Mr. BERG. There is some efforts underway to do that. I think 

there needs to be more. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, sir. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Dr. Benishek. 

Dr. BENISHEK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you all for 

being here today. I have got some great information from it. Mr. 

Downing, in particular, I really appreciate your passion—— 

Mr. DOWNING. Thank you. 


VACREP180 with DISTILLER
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Mr. BENISHEK [continuing]. And your frustration with the bureaucracy of the VA as I share that very much as well. And I guess 

one of the first things I think of when I hear about the difficulty 

in coordinating the VA with the community-based services that are 

available and that, it seems to me that each community has a different set of community-based services, and I am not sure if there 

is enough flexibility within the VA to be able to deal with that. I 

mean, how does the coordination occur? Do you know at what level 

the VA makes these decisions to get into partnership with the VA? 

Mr. DOWNING. Speaking for SSVF and the grant per diem program that I work with, they absolutely encourage community partnership. They work with us in working it out. We regularly would 

call Lisa Pape and her staff and talk about, hey, how do we pass 

money through here? Can we make that work? Does that pass the 

sniff test? 

Dr. BENISHEK. Is that happening just in your—my concern is—— 

Mr. DOWNING. I am doing that in all the States I am in. I have 

no trouble all. I find the veterans’ services in communities very 

willing to interface and work. With SSVF, we can sometimes pay 

first month, last month, and do some things to assist so we can 

work the veteran’s service officer and extend out benefits, and stabilize better, so all of that works—— 

Dr. BENISHEK. What I am saying is, there is obviously a failure 

somewhere because of the fact that this—for example, this phonein service was not working. 

Mr. DOWNING. But that was VHA, not the VA per diem. So it is 

done out of that big bureaucracy of healthcare and not under the 

little unit that just dealt with homelessness, the grant and per 

diem office and the homeless program. 

Dr. BENISHEK. So do you feel as if that—why is the VHA taking 

care of this when it should be the homeless people? 

Mr. DOWNING. You know what, Doc, or Mr. Congressman, I really can’t answer that. I am befuddled by how they think. I have 

come to describe the VA as a bureaucracy that excels at skilled incompetency. 

Dr. BENISHEK. I agree with you. 

Mr. DOWNING. I don’t know how they do it. I know this, that 

when I work with my community partners, when I deal with the 

grant and per diem folks or the people at the Center For Excellence 

in Philadelphia, I get answers. I get responses. I get frustrated 

sometimes, but I generally get, you know, I generally get supported 

in trying to move forward. 

Dr. BENISHEK. Well, hopefully, the VA will—— 

Mr. DOWNING. The VA healthcare, they are the enemy to me. 

Even at the hospital that I house 225 homeless vets every night. 

Okay. They don’t cooperate with me. 

Dr. BENISHEK. All right, thank you for your answer, Mr. Downing. 

I would just like to ask Mr. Berg a question sort of following up 

on Mr. Takano’s question, and that is, how we can best, you know, 

and we didn’t really breach about how to prevent this in the beginning when the person transitions from the DoD. I think there 

should be a better way of not waiting for somebody to reach out 

to the VA, but to make sure everybody on their discharge gets 


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some follow-up. And can you maybe comment on that a little bit 

more, Mr. Berg? 

Mr. BERG. Sure. And just to go back to the previous question, I 

would just say, I work with several different Federal agencies and 

what I found with all of them, HUD, HHS, and VA, whatever you 

think about the agency in general, and people have different ideas, 

one of the good things about working on homelessness is in all 

those agencies the part of the agency that deals with homelessness 

seems to attract people who are very capable, very smart and very 

committed to getting things done. So I think that supports what 

Mr. Downing is saying. 

On the prevention issue, what we see as an important long-term 

piece of the homelessness prevention system is exactly, as I said 

before, the DoD knows a lot about people who are in the military, 

and we know more and more about what the risk factors for homelessness are, both for people in general, and particularly for people 

who have been on active duty, depending on the kind of duty they 

had, the kind of injuries they have, what sort of medical conditions 

they have, what experiences they had while they were in the military, what characteristics they had before they ever joined the military. These are risk factors for homelessness in all of that. DoD 

knows a lot about that. VA doesn’t have really any ready access to 

that kind of information, but that wouldn’t have to be the case. 

I could foresee a system where the homeless services part of the 

local VA Medical Center had a list of veterans who were, who had 

been identified as having these risk factors, that they could check 

on once in a while, not in any sort of intrusive way, but just as part 

of the normal course of business. We are a long way from having 

such a system, but I don’t see—I think we have got the know-how 

to make a system like that work. 

Dr. BENISHEK. Thank you. My time is expired. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Brownley, you are recognized. 

Ms. BROWNLEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Downing, I wanted to follow-up with you on your comments on military sexual trauma. And I am just interested to know if there are, you know, sort 

of model programs for that and if it is consistent across the country. Do you have any idea of what the success rate is? Do any of 

our men and women who experience military sexual trauma, do 

they fall into the category? I think there were two of you who 

talked about 20 to 25 percent of veterans will need services for a 

lifetime and sort of not have the recovery that we all would hope 

for. Can you comment on that? 

Mr. DOWNING. Well, first of all, I can comment on the women 

that we serve. It is hard for me to project it out nationally. Think 

about this: In 13 years, every night we are at 100 percent capacity 

for 12 beds for our women, every night. I have never had a woman 

with custody of children present. It kind of runs counter to all the 

thoughts I would expect to have take place. 

So the first thing we found out is that women will live in horrific 

situations where they are absolutely horribly violated and everything rather than show up in a shelter with children because they 

don’t want the children identified and then going into special care 

units in most States. 


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The second thing that we found is that we had to change how 

we operated our women’s program. There is no male authority in 

our women’s program. It is run all by women. No man has any 

power, has anything there. We pay all the bills. That is what we 

do. Soldier On pays the bills. We found out that was another issue 

was male authority, trust of men, that type of thing. 

Finally, we found out the approaches we were taking really 

changed when we went to trauma-informed care into wellness. We 

got a grant for $150,000 from Newman’s Own Foundation and we 

started a wellness program in our women’s program. And we started to deal with the spirit, the mind and the body, and we started 

to see some real change. Now, I can only express the change in how 

people appear and then how women started to—our women never 

participated in any program that involved our men. 

We now have former homeless women who are employees working on the call center, working as outreach workers, working as 

peers. We have women going to school. But the issue is, they want 

women-specific services, and it is very difficult because the VA does 

not accommodate that at all. At the rural VA center that I am at, 

there is no OB-GYN services at all. If a woman has a mental 

health break and needs to go to a unit, she goes on a unit with 

male patients; completely unacceptable to her. 

So we have to, in our facility, we dual register all our women in 

Mass Health so they can choose to go community-base where they 

can see doctors that they are comfortable with and they can go to 

units for treatment where they feel safe. Doesn’t make sense to me 

that we have—so that is that. 

Finally, in the piece about recovery, I think the women generally 

recover because there is much more support in their community for 

one another than there is with the men. They tend to care for one 

another very much and they tend to look out for one another, so 

that even as they have moved into the community and established 

their lives, they come back and visit. They come back and help the 

women decorate their new apartment, just a number of those 

things. So I think there is more hope for us there. But the shocking 

part to me is that we continuously read about this in DoD. And you 

know, it is not run by women—do you know what I am saying? 

Ms. BROWNLEY. Yes. 

Mr. DOWNING. And it is like somehow we are going to get there. 

Well, I want to tell you something. When I first ran the women’s 

program, I ran it like we ran the men’s program. And in fact, they 

shared some space in the building where the men were. And I was 

very frustrated with it and women were coming and going, and it 

really wasn’t working. And I went home one night and I am sitting 

with my wife and I have a daughter who is a special-needs teacher 

who happened to stop at the house, and I am talking about the 

women’s program. 

My daughter looks at me and she says, what the hell are you 

doing running a women’s program. You stunk as a father. If it 

wasn’t for mom, we all would have left you. And I am really? And 

I had to really—she wasn’t joking. She was dead serious. Okay, 

and that is when I realized, my God, yeah, what do I know? And 

how do I—I didn’t understand. Do you know what I am saying? 

Mr. BROWNLEY. Yes. 


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Mr. DOWNING. So that is what we need to do, and we need to 

really say that across the board. I am sure Dr. Sherin has some 

other insights on women like that because I would assume in your 

practice, there has been a lot that you face. 

Ms. BROWNLEY. Yes, sir, I think my time is up, but I would like 

to hear from other members maybe, you know, off time here 

about—— 

The CHAIRMAN. If we could do it off line because they are about 

to call votes, and I would like to go ahead and continue the questions. But thank you very much, and thank you for your spontaneity, Mr. Downing. 

Mr. Coffman. 

Mr. COFFMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Sherin, I have got 

a question for you. You were talking about how we calculate homelessness, and I think you had, if I can quote you, you said certain 

homeless veterans populations, and then you went on to say, elude 

current methods of calculation. What populations are you referring 

to, and what do you think the true number of homelessness is? 

Dr. SHERIN. I think you actually got the wrong doctor. I will 

hand it over to him, but let me just say real quick, I think we have 

to recognize that our estimates of homelessness are rough. You 

know, when we do the point time count, we get a sense on a given 

night how many veterans we are finding basically in the streets. 

First off, there is a whole year that we are looking to kind of estimate. Secondly, there are veterans that elude these techniques and 

these radars, for example, post-9/11 veterans I would say in large 

part, and female veterans. 

Mr. COFFMAN. Okay, Mr. Landis. 

Mr. LANDIS. No. I think that was yours. 

Mr. O’DONNELL. So you asked for the actual number, and I don’t 

know. But you asked about the population, and as you might imagine, as the number of homeless veterans that are known, I will 

speak to Philadelphia, to be in Philadelphia, those that are more 

elusive, might actually be choosing to live on the street for a whole 

host of reasons. 

But as we find appropriate housing, some of those folks are the 

most difficult people to find appropriate housing and care for, significant mental illness, chronic and prolonged substance abuse and 

dependency. They are at a stage in their recovery where they—it 

is called precontemplative. You are not even considering the idea 

of abstinence from substance use. So those are the folks that I 

think no one really has figured out what long-term appropriate 

housing and care looks like, and I don’t know the number. 

Mr. COFFMAN. If we talk about the majority of the causes for veterans homelessness, I mean, when I left for my first overseas assignment with the United States Army in 1972, came back from 

my last overseas assignment with the United States Marine Corps 

in 2006, and so, but I never went to Vietnam. And that population, 

a conscript military, very intense war, a lot of drug and alcohol 

issues, doesn’t the majority of homelessness right now come from 

that generation of veterans? 

Mr. O’DONNELL. The generation that we are serving predominantly is from the Vietnam era. 

Mr. COFFMAN. Vietnam era. 


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Mr. O’DONNELL. But within the last year, we went from 5 percent OEF/OIF veterans to 10 percent OEF/OIF veterans, so that is 

steadily and significantly increasing. And those guys haven’t hit 

bottom yet. They are couch surfing. They are being incarcerated, 

often related to substance use. But your comments, and actually 

the comments about military sexual trauma, if you can expand the 

idea of trauma just from combat to complex trauma that occurs on 

the street, there is something implicit about being homeless that 

there is a threat of violence, interpersonal violence on a regular 

basis. We know there is a dose-duration relationship between trauma and all of the problems, including homelessness that come 

along with that. 

Mr. COFFMAN. Well, doesn’t it—any effective program for homeless veterans, doesn’t it have to include a mental health component, particularly in substance abuse? 

Mr. O’DONNELL. You would imagine so. If I had another choice 

today, I would say allow the VA to outstation mental heal providers. We are not allowed to provide psychotherapy. So there are 

evidence-based treatments for posttraumatic stress disorder and a 

hole host of other disorders related to trauma. We can’t provide 

that service directly. We drive guys every day to the VA if they can 

get an appointment, but if mental healthcare providers could be 

outstationed to our facility, I will even pick up the occupancy cost. 

Right? We can try to find money, but if you can provide that level 

of care, yes, it is necessary, and then a longer discussion is about 

trauma-informed care, which is a culture change. 

Mr. COFFMAN. It is about—I don’t want to use the term 

outsourcing—well, I guess I would—about reimbursing private providers for providing the care or nonprofit providers for providing 

the care. 

Mr. O’DONNELL. That would be an option, although I got to tell 

you, the VA has a whole branch that focuses on implementation 

and evaluation. So if mental healthcare providers are given the 

training to provide evidence-based therapy for specific disorders 

with some flexibility about context because that is relevant in implementation, I would suggest that before giving me money to go 

hire a therapist. The VA is able to monitor what therapies are 

being delivered and in what way. 

Mr. COFFMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

The Chairman. Ms. Kirkpatrick. 

Ms. KIRKPATRICK. Thank you, panel, for being here. I represent 

a very large rural district in Arizona, and my staff and I talk with 

thousands of veterans, and it is very evident that housing is an 

acute need for veterans in rural Arizona and maybe throughout the 

country in rural areas. And so my question is, what is being done 

about that and especially in light of the VA reform bill that we recently passed allowing veterans to get care in their local communities where they live, under HUD–VASH, are they going to be 

able to get that in their communities? Are they going to be able to 

stay in their communities, or are they going to have to relocate just 

to get housing? 

That is my general concern. I don’t know who on the panel can 

best answer that. I will let you sort that out, but that is what I 

would like to hear about. 


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Dr. SHERIN. I have a few comments about that. At Volunteers of 

America in Northern Louisiana, we actually just received a pilot 

grant from the VA specifically to connect veterans in rural areas 

in the Tri-State area around Northern Louisiana to the services 

that they need around the horn, you know, healthcare services and 

human services. 

In addition, we are looking to obviously provide housing through 

the HUD–VASH program when we can. I think that the challenge 

in rural areas is obviously significant. Leveraging technology is one 

part of the solution, and I think that the VA’s willingness to 

outsource services to non-VA providers is going to be very, very important in rural areas going forward. And I would say this new 

generation, particularly those suffering from post-traumatic stress 

are retreating to more rural areas, and we need to be aware of that 

and get out ahead of that movement. 

Ms. KIRKPATRICK. And let me just mention, I am hearing from 

veterans on housing, not necessarily who are living on streets or 

in the woods, but they are living with their children, or grandchildren, or friends. And in my mind, they still count as homeless 

because they don’t have their own place. Mr. Downing, do you have 

anything to add? 

Mr. DOWNING. We work in 76 counties in Mississippi. Most of 

them are rural. We have the same issues. What we found is the 

SSVF grants allow us to go out there. Now, we partner with Voice 

of Calvary out of Jackson to provide services there because they 

have a whole history down there and we have found that that really works. So what we have done, again, is we have, in Mississippi, 

we have seven peers and 11 outreach workers who do nothing but 

go to those areas, deliver services, and then try to get local agencies to work with us and partner with us to sustain some service 

for individuals because a 3- or 6-month process can get you to a 

little bit more stability and opportunity, but it is the long-term, 

how do we keep this going and keep you going in the right direction. 

So at this point we have 2 years of experience there, and we are 

finding that is what works there. But what we need to do is increase SSVF funding, especially in the rural areas because we need 

to do much more transportation, and we need to get professionals 

to move out there with us. 

I think what, again, what Dr.—is it Sherin? 

Dr. SHERIN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. DOWNING. What he said was, that if we can get the VA to 

contract for those services and we can make them mobile and they 

go with us, it is just so much more effective. 

Dr. SHERIN. If I may, I have mentioned earlier the concept of 

leveraging the National Center For Homelessness Amongst Veterans to create a larger grant opportunity. That grant could be 

named reintegration services for veteran families, as one example, 

which would have a number of different resources available to use 

through that very responsive mechanism. 

Ms. KIRKPATRICK. Thank you, panel. Yes, yes, Mr. Berg. 

Mr. BERG. Just to say on this issue of housing, I think this is 

a longer-term problem that people on this committee are going to 

have to deal with. The long-term trend in the cost of rental housing 


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is up compared to the rest of costs of living. We went through a 

period in the mid-to late zeros where we had sort of a temporary 

lull in that, but housing costs are going to continue to be more and 

more of a burden. If the VA benefits system doesn’t find some way 

to take account of that, they are going to leave more and more veterans pushed into homelessness and pushed into poverty. 

Ms. KIRKPATRICK. Right, I completely agree. I think this is an absolutely top priority that we have got to address. And we don’t even 

get to providing healthcare or mental healthcare without providing 

that housing stability. My time is up, but I thank the panel very 

much and I think we need to focus on this going forward. Thank 

you. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Kirkpatrick. To the first and second panel, please accept our apologies. We are going to have to step 

out. We have a series of votes right now. We should be able to return in about 30 minutes so we will stand in recess until that time. 

[Recess.] 

Mr. LAMBORN [presiding]. The committee will come back to order. 

We will resume the questioning of the first panelists. I want to 

thank you for staying here. We were interrupted. The chairman 

has so much going on and—all of us do. Important votes taking 

place, and then we leave for the rest of December to go back to our 

districts. So thank you for your indulgence in staying here and 

being willing to continue answering questions. 

And, at this point, we are to Representative Walorski. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 

Mr. LAMBORN. The floor is yours. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the 

panel, also, for being here. I am grateful for the work that you all 

do and—and for the heart that you have and your diligence in continuing to make a difference. 

And I think one take-home—take-away that we can take home 

today from today’s testimony is that there is measured success 

when local programs are tailored to meet the needs of veterans and 

take charge of the homeless veteran population. And in my district, 

although it does not receive any grant money from the VA, but we 

have the Robert L. Miller Sr. Veteran’s Center in downtown South 

Bend, Indiana. It has 24 beds. They are always full. And the facility has an incredible proven track record. But, obviously, there is— 

you know, it is a small—it is a small step forward. We have other 

homeless shelters as well. But for us, in the middle of getting into 

winter now, everybody will be full and there is still going to be a 

need. 

But their story does go to show that local community organizations doing the work on the ground achieve results. And—and that 

is why I am glad you are here, to hear about other stories, winning 

stories, things that work. But, I guess, I share the same passion 

you do that, for every success story, there are so many folks that 

are standing in the shadows that are counted as just nameless, 

homeless veterans. 

The question I have is: In the research that you have all done 

in some of your—some of you maybe have alluded to a little bit of 

this. But in the research that you have done for the folks that come 

to your facility or that you end up involved somehow with an outVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00037 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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reach as a net, what are the backgrounds that lead a lot of these 

veterans to homeless? And the one thing I want to know—I know 

some of you are going to say it is economic, it is mental health 

issues. And we get the same thing on our end in just handling our 

district phone calls. 

But I just want to draw your attention to one really quick story. 

We have a—one of the first times I dealt with this really up close 

and personal was the homelessness veterans was the shelter in our 

area. But, secondly, when I was elected, we got a call last year 

from a homeless veteran. And he said, ‘‘I am living in my car and 

I have lost everything.’’ And his issue, though, to me, was, you 

know, just another frustrating point about the efficiency of services 

delivered by the VA to the veteran community. This guy wasn’t 

homeless. He became homeless. He lost his house and he lost everything but a car. And he called us because he had filed claims 

with the VA, and this went on for years. And we got involved and 

started to run the traps on that claim. And part of the claim was 

that he was unemployable with 100 percent service connected 

PTSD. 

And after—years after he has been homeless, living in car, lost 

his family, lost everybody, we chased the bunny trail and he began 

to get the money—the back money that the VA owed him from 

some 4 or 5 years ago. 

Today, our happily-ever after story is today, he is back on his 

feet. He has a home. His family is reunited. And the story ends 

happily. But there is still even hundreds in my own district where, 

you know, that is never going to happen. But when you look at the 

breakdown of a pie chart and say, if today the VA could run no 

backlogs, completely efficiently and all services rendered, delivered, 

and all that kind of thing, if the veteran was number one and we 

could solve this today with just that scenario, which I know, you 

know, is kind of hypothetical, how many veterans are coming into 

your services that perhaps could be—put back on the right path, 

if they had the claims resolved and really were not fighting with 

the bureaucracy of the VA itself? And I am just going to open up 

to whoever wants to answer that. 

Dr. SHERIN. Well, you know, it is—I mean, it is a tough question. 

Obviously, if we could get perfect service out of all the different 

agencies, fewer veterans would fall out. What I have said for a long 

time—and I continue to say—is that the biggest problem is actually 

accessing resources, which is why I continue to push at Volunteers 

of America an effort to create what we like to think of as community concierge, which is veterans helping veterans, as battle buddies, navigate the systems. Okay. A veteran can engage another 

veteran better than anybody. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Right. Exactly. 

Dr. SHERIN. Family relationship. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Yes. 

Dr. SHERIN. Then, if they are supported by an organization like 

Volunteers of America or others who are on the panel, they have 

the ability, they can develop the process and content expertise that 

they need to navigate the systems. And then, when they show up 

at a nonprofit, at the VA—— 

Ms. WALORSKI. Right. 


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Dr. SHERIN [continuing]. Anywhere—— 

Ms. WALORSKI. Yes. 

Dr. SHERIN [continuing]. Together, they are stronger. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Yes. 

Dr. SHERIN [continuing]. At kicking down the door and getting 

access to that resource. 

Ms. WALORSKI. I agree. And that is why my hand and my heart 

goes out to you because what you are doing—and in my own community with the Miller Homeless Vet Center, privately run, privately funded, you know, no Federal money coming in, but they 

have certainly led the way. And my hope would be, for communities like ours, that we would be able to leverage more grant 

money that comes into communities to say, lets drive the money— 

I would rather see the finances driven to the frontline than held 

up in a bureaucracy. That is just the kind of—that is just how— 

in my world, it is so much more efficient and—but I applaud your 

efforts. 

And if you just—if you could indulge me, Mr. Chairman, one second. If there was one thing the VA could—could do today, would 

it be the access of resources for all of you, as for Dr. Sharin? 

Mr. DOWNING. It would for me. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Yes. 

Dr. SHERIN. Yes. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you. 

Representative O’Rourke. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 

I wanted to begin by joining my colleagues in thanking Mr. 

Michaud for his service. This is the last day, I hope, of my first 

term in Congress. And serving on this committee with you, I have 

learned a lot and your style of leadership and your commitment to 

veterans has really been inspiring. And I—that inspiration will 

continue long after you leave. So I just want to thank you for your 

work for everyone that we serve on this committee. 

And then for—Dr. Sherin, I really enjoyed your comments about, 

in reading some of the backup in your written comments and testimony about peer-to-peer services. And you cite a New York Times 

article, and it says this is a way to treat depression in the general 

population that might go viral. And you suggest how that might 

work for veterans, and you suggest something like an SSVF-type 

grant to fund that. 

Can you talk a little bit about how that might work? What that 

might cost? How that grant might be structured? That seems like 

something that this committee could pick up and run with. 

Dr. SHERIN. Well, I mean, to start, we want to try to, I think, 

use the SSVF program as a prototype because it is so flexible and 

responsive. And in the hands of community providers and, also, 

veterans who are being served, there is a clear recognition that this 

program works. So, once we have a mechanism like this, it is something that we should leverage because what it allows for the VA 

to do is to engage community providers in a direct way and to 

maintain fidelity with the needs of the community and the individuals. 


VACREP180 with DISTILLER
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There are a lot of funds—there are a lot of funds that are floating around doing different things. If we were able to, for one example, take HVRP money or money for employment and funnel it 

through SSVF, that would be an effective way, I think, to get services to homeless veterans so that, once they were actually housed, 

we could work on getting them employed. 

Same thing around, you know, kind of around this circle of the 

human services: Leveraging peers is a critical part of the solution 

because—because many homeless veterans become disenfranchised, 

they become isolated. When you are in the military, the community, the family that is built is a critical part. And when you return 

to the country and things start to fracture around you, you become 

isolated. And, you know, we call it the other LOL, which—you 

know, which is the lethality of loneliness. Because veterans become 

isolated. 

And, you know, the homeless lifestyle does not lend itself to, you 

know, any type of thriving behavior. So if you incorporate resources 

for a—for a program that is operated like SSVF. What that will do 

is it will give the homeless veterans that family piece so that they 

can belong, and also, the ability to access resources. 

And I—sorry to be carrying on. But the other thing here is that 

this is an opportunity for a massive employment initiative. We 

could employ a huge number of veterans to do this work. And the 

veterans that do this work—and I say this from my own experience. I met with 15 of them yesterday in Los Angeles, that work 

gives them purpose, because that purpose is lost as well when they 

return. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Great. Great idea. 

For, Ms. Crone, I spend a good deal of time when I am back in 

El Paso with the veterans in our community. We have a veterans 

town hall every quarter and a monthly town hall. And we have actually held some of them in a homeless shelter that primarily 

serves veterans. And so anecdotally, I have gotten a lot of good 

feedback. 

We have the point-in-time count, you know, 56 veterans in El 

Paso. We know how many HUD–VASH vouchers there are outstanding. We know how many Dollars SSVF have come into the 

community, who holds the grant. How can I assess, what is a good 

measure? I know no measure will be perfect. But how do I know 

how El Paso is doing? How do any of us know how the communities 

are doing using the resources that are coming through and holding 

those who have those resources accountable for their use? 

Ms. CRONE. That is a great question. So I appreciate it. Thank 

you very much. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. You have 20 seconds to answer that question. 

Ms. CRONE. Okay. But—oh, okay. Great. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. No. I am kidding. I am kidding. Hopefully the 

chair will give me some time. 

Ms. CRONE. The point-in-time count is a useful number, but you 

also want to be looking at factors like the lease-up rate, how quickly is someone being referred for a HUD–VASH voucher and how 

long from that referral point does it take until they are leased up. 

You want to be looking at their continuation in that permanent 

housing, once they are leased up with HUD–VASH. 


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For those individuals that don’t need that extensive intervention—so maybe people who are going through SSVF—you want to 

be looking at how quickly, again, they are being placed into permanent housing, what the cost replacement is from year to year and 

its increase—or its decrease every year. It is improved every year 

with SSVF nationally. You also want to be looking at, for those individuals who are seeking out employment services, which ones are 

getting employed, what their wages are, and how long they are retaining that employment. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Is this something that is measured? And I can 

ask the VA. I know they are the next panel. Is this something that 

is measured by the VA for each community which they serve, the 

different metrics you just gave us? 

Ms. CRONE. I think your best way to get some of that information 

is to directly ask the providers. They do pretty extensive tracking 

of their programs. And some of those programs, including the employment services, might be through Department of Labor. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Thank you. 

Ms. CRONE. But, yes, you can ask me. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Very, very helpful. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Representative Walz. 

Mr. WALZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I start, I think it 

maybe has all been said, but I wanted to thank the ranking member, Mr. Michaud, as everyone said here, just an absolute pillar of 

this committee and of Congress, a close friend. When I think now 

people from Maine, I think of Mr. Michaud, no nonsense, practical, 

hearty, dependable, consistent, all those things. 

So I was thinking of my district, something to give you that I 

thought fit those attributes. And in my district, every single can of 

Spam in the world is produced there. So I think of you. I am going 

to—so we will pass it down. 

Well, to each of you, thank you. You are doing the good work. 

I appreciate this, and many of you have been here. I want to say 

a couple of things. 

First of all, Mr. Landis, thank you. I have been out to be with 

you. And in full disclosure, my wife and I support what you are 

doing out there and I appreciate the email updates and all the 

things you are doing. It is a model that many of you have here. It 

is not the same model, but it is a model based on efficiency, delivery, and that holistic approach. And for that, I am very, very grateful. 

Dr. Sherin, in following up on my colleague’s insightful questions 

on this peer-to-peer piece, as we sit here today, we are waiting. 

And at any point, that Veterans Suicide Bill and the ones you 

helped on are going to get there. A key component of that was the 

peer counseling piece. So I thank you for that. It looks like—and 

we just got word from the White House, they are waiting for it to 

sign it. So thank you for that. And I think we are moving forward. 

A couple things I want to ask each of you. This issue of rural delivery—and I know I hear many of you talk about that. Mr. Downing, you talk about it. One of the realities we are going to have to 

understand, about 15 percent of the population is rural, like southern Minnesota, northern Maine, places like that, El Paso and others that you get out in the countryside. But about 45 percent of our 


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warriors come from there. I think that is cultural, far more than 

it is economic. But it is a reality. 

One of the issues we have to grapple with is the shortage of providers is both in the private sector as well as in this. So one of the 

things, as we look for these solutions, and we look for them, it is 

not as simple as just putting the people into the private sector because, in many cases, those providers aren’t there anyway. And so 

I say that because I think—and many of you are thinking about 

this, this holistic approach, and I have seen this in my community. 

We have MACV, which an integrated housing unit. Minnesota Valley Action—and they do it right. And we integrated and started 

early on after folks in Buffalo showed us to do this veterans courts, 

where we understand, instead of the criminal justice system, it is 

entrance into the community. That is private sector, working with 

the county, working with the city, working with the State, working 

with the VA. 

So I think there are models out there. I caution us, though, from 

saying one way or another. If I go to charity navigator, not all the 

private charities are doing a wonderful job as many of you are. And 

I think it is our responsibility here and it is VA’s responsibility to 

be that clearinghouse and to put those things into place. And I 

hear you on this. And I am saying, well, maybe one of those major 

responsibilities should be moving the resources in an accountable 

manner. I think I agree with you on this. I have two questions, 

though, I want to ask on this. 

I—and many of them are here, and I know the Secretary and 

others will be here. And I—this isn’t the PIC, the turf battle fight 

or whatever, but it seemed like to me as a veteran, one of the 

things is the disjointed nature of where many services are. There 

are 40,000 charities for veterans in this country, whatever. 

Does it make sense to have DoL, Department of Labor, and VA 

have pieces of this? My goal was to bring it all into one. And that 

it was not to disparage either agency on that, but as a simple 

alignment. I ask each of you who deal with this on a regular basis. 

Mr. DOWNING. I stopped all my DoL programs just because I had 

a difficult time with all the different reporting things, and it was 

easier for me to meet the various State funder sources in the VA 

and move on. And through SSVF, I was able to train people to be— 

to do job search, and we have built that component in. And we, 

also, in most of the States we are in, are partnering now with their 

employment divisions, okay, and their training divisions, and we 

are finding that it works extremely well. 

Mr. WALZ. Do you think there is expertise in VA to clear some 

of that to get to those—— 

Mr. DOWNING. I do. I think, again, in the homeless program— 

and I want to go back here because VHA, I have real fears about. 

But the homeless program, the Center for Excellence, are very good 

at contracting. And we just need to fund them and encourage them 

to. 

I think the second thing is, in rural areas, technology—I manage 

76 counties in Mississippi from western Massachusetts. 

Mr. WALZ. Okay. 

Mr. DOWNING. You know, I pick up—or my staff pick up a phone 

and they can tell you where every car is, who is on time for their 


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appointments, who isn’t, how many people are served there. That 

is all doable. But we need to have the resources, and we need to 

have the creative minds that say, hey, that is acceptable. Do you 

know what I am saying? It is hard to get the big system to buy 

that. So I think we are very capable of it. 

Mr. WALZ. Well, I will let some of you—I am going to save this 

one for VA. But I want you to think about it. I have been in, you 

know, I am sure I have spoken about it till everybody is sick of 

hearing about this. But this idea of the strategic vision, the quadrennial veterans review type of thing. How does homelessness fit 

into their broader strategy? Do you feel like it is taken into that, 

or do we end up having programs that get attached on the side all 

the time? I am just wondering where homelessness fits into that 

veterans strategy? If any of you—do you think it is there? My time 

is up and just—why don’t we hold it. I will let them answer, but 

just give you some—— 

Mr. LAMBORN. Yes. Representative Walz, I just—I hate to keep 

moving, but—— 

Mr. WALZ. No, no. If we are on the right track and all that—I 

yield back. 

Mr. LAMBORN [continuing]. We have votes in about 45 minutes, 

so—and we have another panel of three people yet to go. 

Representative Kuster. 

Ms. KUSTER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. And I, too, want 

to commend Mr. Michaud for his wonderful leadership on this committee and thank you for mentorship to the new members of the 

committee. 

I just wanted to ask a couple of questions. Mr. Downing, nice to 

meet you. You have a project that we are trying to get off the 

ground in my district of Plymouth, New Hampshire. 

Mr. DOWNING. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. KUSTER. And I understand we have had some zoning board 

issues with a couple of the sites, and I am very hopeful that we 

will be successful with this site that you are looking at now. 

Mr. DOWNING. I think we are. We had an offer that was accepted 

on the property. We are trying to work out the terms of that right 

now. 

Ms. KUSTER. Terrific. Terrific. 

Mr. DOWNING. So—and we have talked to Taylor Caswell. And 

we are moving ahead and doing applications on the financing. 

Ms. KUSTER. Terrific. And so what I wanted to ask about is: Can 

you help me understand, you or any other members of the panel, 

how we go about the funding? What is the Federal rule in the actual capital funding? We have talked about that, sort of, the initial 

expense. I am very confident in the model that you are choosing 

of relying upon our community providers. We have a great deal of 

interest in this community. It is rural, but we have strong support, 

and I am very much looking forward to you coming to New Hampshire. Because, as they have told me, you are the gold standard 

and we have a great—— 

Mr. DOWNING. Thank you. 

Ms. KUSTER [continuing]. Deal of need in that region. But can 

you just educate me on what the sources of capital funding are for 

these projects? 


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Mr. DOWNING. First of all, we get in line with every other affordable housing group on the home, if and however that money gets 

passed through in your State, we applied for that. Tax credits, both 

Federal and State, then, become issues. And we applied for those 

where they are applicable. And then we normally have approximately a 20 percent shortfall on anything we are going to build. 

And we usually go out and borrow some of that money and see 

what we can fund develop for the balance. And then that is how 

we put our model together. 

There are two other models now that are really—we are looking 

at, one that I am doing in partnership with a major tax credit provider. And they are—they feel that we could more rapidly get to 

building using that model. And I have just met with a major defense contractor, and we are going to be meeting with them about 

buying the credits at a ‘‘Dollar′′on a ‘‘Dollar ′′ for veterans’ housing. 

And if we could pull that off, it would then really rapidly increase 

the time. 

So that—give an example, in Plymouth, New Hampshire, now 

that we finally found the piece of land and we are in agreement 

on the price and fair and we are all moving forward, it would be— 

with a more streamlined model, we should be able to start building 

in 18 months. It is probably going to take us, in the model we are 

in right now, because of the lack of tax credits in the State and the 

size of the State limits that, I believe we are going to be 21⁄2 years 

to 3 years to finance. Okay. 

Ms. KUSTER. I would love to help you out and maybe make some 

introductions to some of our businesses in the community that 

could be helpful. 

Mr. DOWNING. Thank you. I would appreciate it, ma’am. 

Ms. KUSTER. And we welcome you in my district. 

Mr. DOWNING. Thank you. 

Ms. KUSTER. Thank you. 

I would like to ask—and this is for anyone in the panel. I am 

interested—we have talked about VA products and programs that 

are available and we have talked about private sector. Do you envision an impact, as in New Hampshire we have just expanded Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. It is a big change for us. We 

are going to have 50,000 people with health insurance for the first 

time, many of them ever. And given our high population of veterans, do you envision this being helpful? And I think one of you 

had mentioned that Massachusetts—that you encourage them to 

take the healthcare coverage under the Massachusetts plan. Will 

this help provide alternatives so that our veterans can get the services they need in the community? And any comment from anyone 

on that? 

Mr. BERG. Well, I would start by saying just the expansion of 

Medicaid really, by making sort of mental health treatment available to a lot more very low income people, helps on the issue of 

homelessness generally. 

Now, for veterans, in the past, we have thought, okay, VA offers 

mental healthcare where that—that, at least, is more than people 

who aren’t veterans get. I think there is a lot more talk about how 

these federally-funded systems should interact, the one for veterans 

and the one for nonveterans. 


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The other thing I would say is that there is a certain number of 

veterans, people who served on active duty in the military who are 

not eligible for VA healthcare. Based on a series of complicated 

rules. The Medicaid expansion is going to be what they need to rely 

on to get mental health agreement. 

Ms. KUSTER. Excellent. 

My time is up. But I appreciate it, and I certainly am hopeful 

in New Hampshire that that will happen and across the country. 

Thank you, Mr. Chair. 

Mr. LAMBORN. That concludes our questions. Thank you all for 

being here on this important issue. We appreciate your testimony. 

I would now welcome our second panel to the witness table. Joining us from the Department of Veterans Affairs is Lisa Pape, the 

executive director of Homeless Programs. Ms. Pape is accompanied 

by Thomas O’Toole, the Acting Director of the National Center for 

Homelessness Among Veterans. 

We are also joined on our second panel by Jennifer Ho, the senior 

advisor to the Secretary on Housing and Services from the Department of Housing and Urban Development; and the Honorable Keith 

Kelly, the Assistant Secretary of Labor for the Veterans Employment and Training Service for the Department of Labor. 

Thank you all for being here. We will begin with Ms. Pape. And 

if you are ready, you, may begin with your testimony. 

STATEMENTS OF LISA PAPE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HOMELESS PROGRAMS, VETERANS HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, ACCOMPANIED 

BY THOMAS O’TOOLE, ACTING DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CENTER FOR HOMELESSNESS AMONG VETERANS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS; JENNIFER HO, SENIOR ADVISOR ON HOUSING AND SERVICES TO THE SECRETARY, U.S. 

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT; 

HON. KEITH KELLY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF LABOR, VETERANS EMPLOYMENT AND TRAINING SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR 

STATEMENT OF LISA PAPE 

Ms. PAPE. Good morning, chairman, and Ranking Member 

Michaud, and members of the committee. On behalf of Secretary 

McDonald, let me thank you and the committee for the opportunity 

to review our progress to prevent and end homelessness among our 

Nation’s veterans. As you have indicated, I am here and pleased to 

be accompanied by Dr. Thomas O’Toole, the acting director of our 

National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans. And I have to 

just say thanks to the panel before us for all their good work and 

great partnerships. 

This is the time to prevent and end homelessness among veterans. We owe every man and woman who has worn our Nation’s 

military uniform no less. With the help of Congress, our Federal 

partners, and community providers, we have been making unprecedented strides, as you have heard today, to engage, support, treat, 

and house homeless and at-risk veterans. While the numbers are 

going down from almost 56,000 in 2013 to 49,900 on any given 

night in 2014, we know we have to accelerate the pace, use data 


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to drive our results, leverage mainstream systems, target resources 

in greatest need, and work better, faster and together. 

Our goal: A systemic end to homelessness, no veteran sleeping on 

our streets, and every veteran having access to permanent housing. 

We have will have the capacity to quickly connect homeless or atrisk for homeless veterans with the help they need to achieve the 

housing stability they deserve. The ultimate goal is that all veterans have permanent sustainable housing with access to high 

quality healthcare. 

VA knows we can’t prevent and end homelessness alone, and we 

are committed to continued collaboration and fostering of strong 

partnerships. We have close working relationships with Federal 

partners, like the U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness, HUD, 

Department of Labor, and others. Partnerships are key. 

I would like to take a moment to thank our local partners from 

around the country. Your interest in being part of a collaborative 

solution to ending veterans’ homelessness is extremely valuable 

and greatly appreciated. Lastly, I want to acknowledge the homeless and formerly homeless vets who are watching or here with us 

today. I thank you for our service, and we look forward to providing 

you with the continued care and support you deserve. 

Our strong interagency collaborations have resulted in successful 

policies and programs. With the help of our partners and, as you 

have heard today, an unprecedented 33 percent decrease in the 

number of homeless—number of veterans without permanent housing who have stayed in shelters, missions, SROs, or in any other 

unstable or nonpermanent situation, and a 42 percent decrease in 

those who were literally sleeping on the streets in boxes or in abandoned buildings. 

Our premiere collaboration is with HUD, in the Housing and 

Urban Development Veterans Affairs Supported Housing Program, 

HUD–VASH. Highly vulnerable veterans who have experienced 

homelessness for extended periods of time are best served through 

HUD–VASH. This collaborative provides housing choice rental assistance from HUD, with intense case management assistance from 

VA. Last year, nearly 56,000 veterans were assisted. We know permanent supported housing is the most effective tool for serving 

these chronically homeless veterans. 

The SSVF, Supportive Service for Veterans Families program, 

rapidly rehouses homeless veterans and their families and prevents 

homelessness for those who are at risk. In fiscal years 2014 and 

2015, the SSVF program awarded $507 million in grants that expanded SSVF from 319 community agencies to 383. Last year, our 

grantees served nearly 130,000 veterans and their family members, 

of which 27,500 were children. Additionally, 81 percent had a successful housing outcome. 

The homeless providers grant per diem is our largest transitional 

housing program. It is for veterans who have need of extended 

rehab, focused help with employment, and housing searches, and 

are served in this program. In 2014, over 23,000 veterans were admitted and 14,600 exited into permanent housing. 

For veterans entering the justice system who are already dealing 

with mental health or substance abuse issues, we have established 

Veterans Justice Outreach; 248 full-time specialists working diVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00046 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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rectly with justice officials. VA works with treatment courts to ensure veterans get the treatment they need as opposed to using incarceration as the alternative. 

In conclusion, VA, with our partners, are now closer to its goal 

than any other point in history. We know that targeting resources, 

utilizing evidence-based practices like Housing First, and strengthening collaborations are key. Through Congress’s continued support, our vast partnerships and the commitment of our Federal 

partners we have made significant progress in our effort. We recognize that ending homelessness is not an endpoint, but a way point. 

We can never become complacent about our achievements or the 

same conditions that gave rise to homelessness will spawn this 

once more. VA will not rest. 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony. My colleague and I 

are prepared to answer questions. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MS. LISA PAPE APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you. Ms. Ho, you are now recognized for 5 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF JENNIFER HO 

Ms. HO. Chairman Lamborn, Ranking Member Michaud, and 

members of the committee, I am Jennifer Ho, senior advisor to 

HUD Secretary Castro. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss 

our collaborative work to eliminate veteran homelessness in America. 

Since launching Opening Doors in June of 2014, the number of 

veterans experiencing homelessness on a single night has dropped 

by 33 percent to just under 50,000 veterans. This progress would 

not have been possible without funding from Congress. Thank you. 

While much more needs to be done, we know that collaboration 

and new resources strategically deployed are key to our progress. 

HUD VA and the U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness work 

together to combat a problem that cannot be solved by one agency 

alone. We work together every day to align our programs and to 

use limited resources as efficiently as possible. 

Our most collaborative effort is HUD–VASH, supportive housing 

that combines housing vouchers from HUD with case management 

and clinical care provided by VA to assist vulnerable and chronically homeless veterans. Together HUD and VA use data to drive 

decisions about HUD–VASH allocation, based on both homelessness prevalence and local capacity to administer new vouchers. 

Since 2008, nearly 70,000 HUD–VASH vouchers have been 

awarded to public housing authorities in the every State, District 

of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and Guam. About 11,000 new HUD– 

VASH vouchers were awarded in the last several months. The success of HUD–VASH requires new collaborative partnerships locally 

between VA medical centers, public housing agencies, and nonprofits providing homelessness assistance. As communities identify 

challenges such as low voucher utilization or a lack of affordable 

housing, we are helping resolve partnership, policy, and practice 

issues. By overcoming challenges together, our collaboration is 

strengthened and better able to address the next challenge. 


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In order to ensure that HUD–VASH investments are used strategically, HUD and VA have a performance target to use at least 65 

percent of HUD–VASH vouchers for veterans experiencing chronic 

homelessness. These veterans have long histories of homelessness 

and very poor health and, therefore, typically require long-term 

housing assistance and support. HUD–VASH supports veterans for 

as long as they need assistance. 

HUD and VA are both committed to Housing First. Housing 

First means veterans get intensive supportive services to help 

them, first, find and keeping housing. A homeless veteran can more 

easily engage in services and address his or her chronic health conditions or find a job once he or she is no longer dealing with the 

chaos and uncertainty of homelessness. Research has demonstrated 

that permanent supportive housing, using a Housing First approach, not only ends homelessness for people who, in the past, 

would live on the streets or in shelters for years, it breaks the costly cycle through shelters, emergency rooms, hospital, detox centers, 

and jails. 

We continue to work with local communities to improve the performance of HUD–VASH. One of HUD’s major technical assistance 

efforts has been boot camps in which community partners are 

brought together to answer the question: How can we more effectively and efficiently end veterans homelessness locally? Nationwide, over 50 communities have participated in boot camps, which 

are a collaborative effort between HUD, VA, the U.S. Interagency 

Council on Homelessness, Rapid Results Institute, and community 

solutions. 

The results are real. In some cities, the time it used to take for 

a veteran to actually get the keys to an apartment was 6 months 

or more. After participation in boot camp, communities have 

shrunk that time to as little as 30 days. Many communities like 

Jacksonville, Florida, set and met ambitious goals of housing 100 

veterans experiencing chronic homeless in 100 days. Large gains 

can be made in a short period of time when all the partners are 

at the table. 

As Ms. Pape discussed, the VA built on the progress made 

through boot camps in the 25 cities initiatives will continue to help 

communities improve the identification, assessment, and housing 

placement of veterans through HUD’s supportive new zero 2016 

campaign in 71 cities and four States across the country. Each 

community is developing specific targets for the number of people 

they must house each month to end veteran homelessness by December of 2015. 

This effort dovetails nicely with the mayor’s challenge to end veteran homelessness championed by First Lady Michelle Obama. I 

am excited to announce that more than 355 mayors, governors, and 

county executives from across the country have pledged to end veteran homelessness in their communities by the end of 2015 by 

strengthening the local partnerships. 

Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, thank you for 

your continued support of this important work. I hope I have been 

able to portray the unprecedented level of Federal collaboration 

that is accelerating our progress toward ending homelessness 

among veterans in America. Thank you very much. 


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[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MS. JENNIFER HO APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

Mr. LAMBORN. All right. Thank you. 

Assistant Secretary Kelly, you may speak now. Thank you for 

being here. 

STATEMENT OF KEITH KELLY 

Mr. KELLY. Good afternoon, Chairman Lamborn, Ranking Member Michaud, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank 

you for the opportunity to participate in today’s hearing, and particularly for this morning’s panel. It was very energetic and robust 

and educational. 

My name is Keith Kelly, and I have the honor to serve as the 

Assistant Secretary for Veterans Employment and Training Services at the Department of Labor. The Department is committed to 

helping the administration meet its goal of ending homelessness 

among veterans in 2015. 

Secretary Perez and I know that one of the most important ways 

to prevent homelessness is through a good job. However, employment alone is not a guarantee in preventing veterans from falling 

back into homelessness. It requires a coordinated effort between 

our Federal partners such as VA, HHS, SBA, and HUD, as well as 

other State and local organizations, nonprofits, and the private sector. 

Currently chaired by Secretary Perez, the U.S. Interagency 

Council on Homelessness has helped us in providing a national 

partnership at every level to reduce ending homelessness in the nation. As you know, and stated in some of your testimony this morning, we have already made substantial progress. 

At DoL, our primary program aimed at eliminating homelessness 

among veterans is the Homeless Veterans’ Reintegration Program, 

referred to as HVRP. In addition, veterans receive priority of service in all of the employment and training programs funded directly, 

in whole or in part, by the Department of Labor. Through the 

HVRP, DoL grantees assist homeless veterans in obtaining meaningful and sustainable employment. Each participant receives customized employment and training services to address his or her 

specific barriers to employment. Services may include occupational, 

classroom and on-the-job training, as well job search, placement assistance and post-placement follow-up services. 

HVRP operates on the principle that when homeless veterans obtain meaningful and sustainable employment, they really are on 

the path to self-sufficiency. HVRP grantees work with VA, HUD, 

HHS, and many other types of organizations. Actually, applicants 

must address how they intend to collaborate with others in their 

applications for funding. 

In fiscal year 2014, the HVRP program received an appropriation 

of just over $38 million, with which the Department awarded 37 

new HVRP grants, 82 option year HVRP grants, and 18 grants for 

homeless female veterans programs. These grantees are expected 

to provide services to over 17,000 homeless veterans with an estimated placement rate of 66 percent at an estimated cost per participant of around $2,200. 


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While my written statement goes into much detail about the Department’s procedures for selecting grant recipients as well as 

measuring their performances, I would just note that HVRP funds 

are awarded to eligible organizations from a very rigorous competitive process. Following the award, the Department works closely 

with grantees to ensure they meet all our performance outcomes. 

On a personal note, my staff and I routinely visit our HVRP 

grantees when we travel around the country. And, as you heard 

this morning, we are consistently impressed with the passion and 

the creativity these dedicated organizations bring to their work to 

help homeless veterans. I would certainly encourage you to meet 

these great men and women as you travel around your districts. 

Just one example. We support the Volunteers of America Florida, 

a local chapter of one of the other witnesses here today. Through 

the HVRP program, they have successfully partnered with a security firm to put in place a direct referral system of the homeless 

veterans they are working with, once they are job ready. The grantee’s staff assist each veteran with their application based on what 

the company is looking for, and then the company contacts the veteran directly. This streamlined process has resulted in many formerly homeless veterans getting back on their feet in a relatively 

short amount of time. 

Through HVRP, the Department also supports stand-down 

grants and technical assistance. The stand-down grant is typically 

a 2- to 3-day event involving various Federal, State, and local organizations. At these events, grantees provide homeless veterans with 

a variety of services, such as meals, clothing, employment services, 

referrals, and counseling. In fiscal year 2014, we awarded 66 standdown grants for approximately $500,000. 

Additionally, the Department awarded two technical assistance 

cooperative agreements to support our grantees and disseminate 

best practices. One who testified this morning, The National Coalition on Homeless Veterans. And, finally, the Department of Labor 

is committed to the administration’s goal of ending homeless veterans in 2015, and we look forward with the committee to ensure 

the continued success of our efforts. 

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you again 

this afternoon for the opportunity to testify. I would be pleased to 

answer any questions you have. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MR. KEITH KELLY APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you. 

I will now yield myself up to 5 minutes for questions. Ms. Pape, 

programs to provide assistance to homeless veterans are provided 

by actually each of the three departments that are represented 

here in this panel. Earlier this year, VA, in particular, provided the 

committee with a list of 20 separate programs that VA operates to 

provide assistance with housing, healthcare, or employment for 

homeless veterans. 

Now, as we all know, large government bureaucracies are not 

known for being sometimes able to effectively communicate and coordinate efforts. So how do you ensure that these programs work 

in coordination to provide a seamless continuum of care for veterans in need and do not duplicate services? 


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Ms. PAPE. Thank you, chairman, for that question. And it is an 

important question. As you heard on the panel before us, the programs that we listed, the 20 programs are really complementary of 

each other and may build on each other. That is not to say there 

is not any duplication. Of course, right, we are constantly working 

to ensure that there is not, but they are more complementary. And 

we do many avenues and, even across department, to ensure that 

folks know about the programs and that we are not duplicating 

services to an extent that is not helpful in the system. So we track 

and monitor and evaluate regularly to ensure that the right veteran is going to the right level of service for the right amount of 

time, which is really key for this population. We also have regular 

subject-matter expert reviews to ensure that programs are staying 

in their lanes but complementing each other. 

Let me ask if Dr. O’Toole would like to add, this is—evaluation 

is his area. 

Dr. O’Toole. Great. Thank you. And, Mr. Chairman, it is a spoton question and issue and one that, I think, is extremely important 

for us to have a focus to. Coordinating care is a challenge in the 

general healthcare system, not to mention issues specific to homeless and homeless veterans within the VA system. 

I am a primary care provider and have been taking care of homeless persons and homeless veterans now for almost 25 years. And 

tomorrow I will be in clinic and see probably about 10 or 15 veterans in the morning, and each one is going to have a litany of different problems and issues that will likely be crossing into the territory of four or five different programs within each context. And 

how we connect the dots in those programs is really a significant 

issue and challenge and, also, an area of very specific focus for us. 

Mr. LAMBORN. And how do you do that? 

Dr. O’TOOLE. Well, the most important thing is we pick up the 

phone and talk to each other. And we—when we do pick up that 

phone, we need to know who it is we are talking to so it is not a 

cold call. And that is basic primary care, basic care coordination 

101, and it is how we have to do it. 

And VA has made significant strides within the homeless program arena in the past few years in the context of this initiative 

in reaching out to community partners and really including them 

in that process as well. Our local facility has a homeless summit 

on a quarterly basis where all of the community agencies that we 

partner with come in, meet. So, again, there is that face time. 

From a data and analytics perspective, this is where we are moving in the National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans is 

specifically directing its energies to how do we find and identify 

those veterans who are falling through the cracks? It is a complicated, bureaucratic system, and it is easy to have that happen. 

And being able to use our analytics capacity to identify down to the 

Social Security number who those veterans are and how can we redirect those services is, right now, where we are really focusing our 

energies. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Okay. Thank you so much. Representative 

Michaud. 

Mr. MICHAUD. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. Before I ask 

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ployees at the VA for your efforts to care for our veterans and to 

serve our veterans as well all across the country. I think too often 

the media headlines level broad accusation against all VA employees, not just the ones who are—have bad performance issues. There 

are good news stories, and there are good VA employees. So keep 

up the good work and continue to improve on that as well. 

But likewise, with the first panel we had earlier this morning 

and the veterans service organizations who work with the Department and veterans, I want to thank all of you as well for your continued effort in that partnership working with the Department to 

make sure that Congress does what we have to do to provide the 

resources that we need for the Department. And I want to thank 

you for that, the essential work that each and every one of the 

VSOs and organizations do for our veterans. 

My question is: It seems that further reduction in homelessness 

will become increasingly difficult as the more severely mental ill 

and substance-dependent veterans are treated and housed. Is that 

a fair assumption? And, if so, what is the VA strategy plan for addressing these chronic homelessness? 

Ms. PAPE. Thank you, Mr. Michaud, and thank you for acknowledging the work we are doing. 

So it is a fair assumption, right, as—as we start to continue to 

reach into the communities and find every homeless veterans, we 

find harder-to-reach folks who are living in camps, not directly in 

urban settings where we have to find them, know them by name, 

and engage them into services. One of the initiatives Ms. Ho referenced was this 25-city initiative that VA is running with our Federal partners, as well as some other contractors we are working 

with. It is to build a coordinated entry system at the community 

level where it literally identifies by name every homeless veteran, 

so that even if they don’t engage, we will know, and the community 

will know, who they are, so that we can continue to go back to 

them until we can get them to engage. 

Eventually, to our pleasant surprise, many, many of these veterans finally raise their hands and say, We want services. And that 

is because we have our partners at the table. They may not want 

it from the VA, but they will take it from one of our partners that 

you saw at the table and move them in. So it is knowing them by 

name, engaging them, and building a systemic system. And it cannot be the VA alone. It has to be all of us together. 

Mr. MICHAUD. Thank you for your answer. And you are absolutely right, it has to be all of you together. And as—VA can’t do 

it all, and I am glad to see that you are reaching out. And I meant 

what I said about the VA’s employees because I really look at, 

every time I go to stand down at Togus and Main, you know, and 

I see Susie Whittington, I mean she has just got so much energy 

out there and she really cares about all the veterans—homeless 

veterans in Maine. And I wish we could just bottle that energy and 

just send it throughout the whole, you know, Department as well. 

I am sure there are other employees such as Susie throughout the 

Department. 

So, once again, I want to thank this panel for your reference and 

the previously panel as well. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back 

the balance of my time. 


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Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you, Representative Michaud. 

Representative Walorski. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, again, I would 

like to express my thanks as well for what the VA and the other 

agencies are doing in the housing and Department of Labor as well 

as for homeless veterans. I mentioned before, I have a homeless 

shelter in my town that is privately funded, the Miller Homeless 

Vet Center. And it has done a phenomenal job being very, very 

close, on the frontline. And I can’t commend them enough for what 

they do. And they have the same heart and passion as well. 

The question I have, though, when we are talking about ending 

homelessness in veterans by 2015 is: The VA Inspector General 

came out last week with a report from the National Call Center for 

Homeless Veterans which identified over 40,000 missed opportunities where the call center did not refer homeless veteran callers to 

medical facilities or close referrals without making sure homeless 

veterans actually receive their services. So what is the follow-up on 

that? What—where is the VA in addressing the concerns of the 

oversight of the IG? 

Ms. PAPE. Good question. You know, we share your concerns. I 

read the report. It is disappointing for all of us, and frankly, it is 

just unacceptable. We regret that any veteran who was calling for 

information and a referral did not get the service that they needed. 

That said, you know, this was a journey for us. And when we set 

up the call center, it was a smart idea. We knew we needed a quick 

way to get veterans access to information. Frankly, it grew faster 

than we were able to execute and we didn’t grow with it. 

Ms. WALORSKI. How many employees are in that call center? 

Ms. PAPE. For the homeless hotline—— 

Ms. WALORSKI. Yes. 

Ms. PAPE [continuing]. There are about 60 employees, and it is 

coupled with the Veteran Crisis Line. That said, we have already— 

even prior to the IG report coming out, we have already started 

making improvements because we have to. Our veterans deserve 

that. 

Ms. WALORSKI. So in the improvements that you started to make, 

were those improvements in holding employees accountable or were 

the improvements in getting rid of the answering system so that 

it can’t be left on auto to leave—what steps have you taken to keep 

the employees accountable? 

Ms. PAPE. It is both. So we are in the process of finalizing an 

automated queuing system so that the answering machine can be 

gone, and that queuing system will allow vets to pick a number, 

1, 2 or 3, or stay on the line and talk to a responder. 

We have also started looking into a workforce tracking system, 

which will allow an automated system for us to know how long 

calls are being talked on, who is doing what, where the documentation is. And all of that is getting worked on right now as we speak. 

We have also targeted staffing to come in during the peak 

hours—I think one of the congressmen said that—so that now they 

are coming in and staggering hours so that we have staff on duty. 

Right now, our service level is about 90 percent of the calls are 

being answered. 


VACREP180 with DISTILLER
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Ms. WALORSKI. So those people—well, I guess, the answering system that was in use when the IG came in and looked at that, was 

that service not adequate to be able to pull all the information from 

what time the veteran called, what number they called from? Were 

those kind of—was it possible to go in and retrace and try to find 

some of these folks? Or are they just—is that information just 

gone—— 

Ms. PAPE. No you could—you could—— 

Ms. WALORSKI [continuing]. And the new system has it? 

Ms. PAPE. Right. You could get that information. But it was an 

answering machine, so some of it was inaudible, right, and it was 

not automated. So somebody literally had to go in and track that. 

Now, with an automated system, that information will be at our 

fingertips. And some of that is at our fingertips right now that we 

are now tracking. 

Ms. WALORSKI. So what did you find out—when you went in to 

kind of go in and implement the IG’s findings, what did you find 

out those employees were doing when the Inspector General said 

there was lapses of up to 4 hours where they weren’t there but 

they were obviously being paid? What were they doing? Did you 

find out? 

Ms. PAPE. I know that some of the things the employees were 

doing were training. They were on training. They were on leave. 

They were on—they were looking, doing documentation and—— 

Ms. WALORSKI. For 40,000 phone calls? How long of a period of 

time does it take to get 40,000 phone calls in there? I mean, will 

we—we will never find these people. But, you know, that is—it is 

interesting to me, it is $3.2 million in a department that loses 

40,000 phone calls, two-thirds of that money is in the system itself. 

So were employees fired? Did somebody talk to them about, you 

know, are there things on the—are these people all still there, and 

these are all the people that we are going forward with? 

Ms. PAPE. So management is looking at how to address issues in 

performance and will be addressing that. I don’t know if all the employees are still there. I do not think anyone has been fired, but 

we can get back to you on that. I can—— 

Ms. WALORSKI. And then whoever is in charge of that department, when that IG report came out and was basically proof to the 

VA that there was a huge issue going on in that call center and 

40,000 call opportunities were missed, what happened to the person in charge of that department? 

Ms. PAPE. So leadership, again, is reviewing and assessing the 

performance. And if there is wrongdoing found, they will be taking 

care of that. 

Ms. WALORSKI. They will be fired? 

Ms. PAPE. I won’t say they will be fired. There are many ways; 

counseling, suspension, reprimands. And, of course, if there is 

something egregious, there could be—— 

Ms. WALORSKI. I just think it is a huge impediment, Mr. Chairman, that—because we all want homelessness ended by 2015, 

right? But we want to make sure that the things get corrected in 

the VA because, I think, the American people have loudly said, 

That is enough and that has to stop. So I appreciate your interest 

in looking at it as well. 


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Ms. PAPE. Thank you. 

Ms. WALORSKI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Chairman Patrick. 

Ms. KIRKPATRICK. Kirkpatrick. That is all right. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Kirkpatrick. 

Ms. KIRKPATRICK. It happens all the time. 

Mr. LAMBORN. I apologize. 

Ms. KIRKPATRICK. I want to thank the panel for your—and the 

previous panel for your hard work toward the goal of ending homelessness for our veterans. 

Ranking Member Michaud, I want to thank you and Chairman 

Miller for your leadership on the committee. Chairman Lamborn, 

I want to thank you and all my colleagues and the committee staff 

for your hard work. This has been one of the most productive committees in the 113th Congress, and thank you for that. 

For my final remarks in the 113 Congress on this committee, I 

want to read an email I got this morning. It is from a gentleman, 

William Putnam, who is the former trustee of Lowell Observatory 

in Flagstaff who has just now moved to New Hampshire. So if the 

committee will bear with me. He says, ‘‘Ann, I just had a wonderful 

experience at the VA Hospital in Manchester near here. Some 5 or 

6 years ago, I gave up on the VA after it became clear to me that 

all the people wanted was to take more chest X rays of me. I figured I must glow in the dark already and that piece of iron hasn’t 

shifted its position inside me since the day it got there in the first 

place nearly 70 years ago. 

‘‘However, I will give them another chance, thought I. So I made 

an appointment and got there in the rain—ugh—at 10 a.m. But 

hardly had I found a place to park my car than some guy with a 

courtesy van showed up to offer me a ride some 250 yards to the 

main entrance. He was right there again when I wanted to go back. 

I found my way inside, and some other nice guy directed me down 

a long hall and around a few corners to a waiting room where I 

showed my paperwork to another polite guy behind a computer. He 

poked away at his machine. And in a matter of less than a minute, 

a little man appeared in a nearby doorway and called my name. 

He introduced himself and said, ’Follow me down to our office area. 

I think you will find the weather is better there.’ In fact, it wasn’t 

raining at his end of the building. And it turned out he was the 

head technician for primary care pack team 2 of which Dr. Carter 

Hale is the leader. 

Dr. Hale was ready for me and did a few more of the usual highlevel medical inquiries. He was a nice guy, friendly, knowledgeable, 

and radiated a sincere desire to be helpful to an old vet with all 

the miseries of a tired and lonesome man.’’ 

Mr. Putnam just recently lost his wife. 

‘‘After his examination, Dr. Hale took me to a nurse’s cubicle 

where he left me to go write up his analysis. And the lady shot me 

full of flu vaccine, then pointed me down the hall to where the real 

blood thirsty ones were. They were really nice about it, too, and finally, it has been nearly two hours so far, told me I could go home. 

The pharmacy people would be in touch with me soon. 

‘‘I had barely gotten back home when—a 20-minute drive—when 

my cell phone rang. I now have a date with the pharmacy people 


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for next Tuesday. You know, Anne, I misspent much of my youth 

here is Kyle, Hampshire. It is kind of nice to feel home again. But, 

mostly, I thought you might enjoy hearing a nice thing said about 

the Veterans Administration.’’ 

I had his permission to read this. And I want to congratulate Ms. 

Kuster. She’s getting a great constituent. So thank you very much. 

I yield back. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you. And thank you, Ms. Kirkpatrick. 

That leads to Representative Kuster. 

Ms. KUSTER. Well, after that, I would take the risk, but thank 

you very much. And I think it is appropriate. 

And I, too, want to commend our chair, Mr. Miller, and Mr. 

Michaud, and just what an extraordinary experience this has been 

for me as a new member. 

Both my husband and I have experienced this incredible pride 

and honor. My father was in World War II. He was a pilot, flew 

63 missions, and was shot down on Christmas Eve and spent 6 

months in a POW camp. And my father-in-law was landing on the 

beaches of Normandy when my father was flying overhead. They 

were both in the Battle of the Bulge. And so this has just been an 

extraordinary experience for me as a member of Congress to be 

able to serve on this committee. 

So I really don’t have any additional questions. I want to thank 

you for the work that you are doing. I certainly want to thank my 

colleague, Ms. Kirkpatrick, for that beautiful letter. 

And I just want to say that of the people that are out there working for the Veterans Administration, for HUD, for all the private 

organizations, all of our VSOs to meet people from organizations 

like Soldier On, I just want our veterans to know how much we do 

care, how much we do want to solve—this is the most complex 

issue, poverty, the issues of the brain having dealt with mental 

health in our family, issues of employment, PTSD, MST, the list 

goes on and on. And I just want our veterans to know that we have 

the most bipartisan committee in the 113th Congress and, I hope, 

in the next Congress as well and that there are people here in 

Washington, DC who care a great deal. 

So I thank you for the work that you do. I thank my colleagues, 

and I just want to thank the chair and the vice chair for the opportunity to work with you this year. Thank you so much. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you. 

Representative O’Rourke. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

First of all, thank you to each of you for what you do and for 

your answers to the questions so far. 

For Ms. Pape, I wanted to follow-up on a question raised by my 

colleague, Ms. Walorski, on these 40,000 missed calls. When did 

you become aware of the OIG report and the number of calls that 

were missed? Roughly. 

Ms. PAPE. While the OIG was finishing up the investigation is 

when I started to become aware that there was 40,000 calls missed, 

so the IG and the VA worked together as they start to close out. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. How long ago was that roughly? 

Ms. PAPE. Several months ago, April, May. 


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Mr. O’ROURKE. I take you at your word that you are pursuing 

this and you are going to make sure that we hold those who are 

responsible accountable and fix the problem? 

Ms. PAPE. Yes. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. I will say an issue that has consumed this committee has been accountability and the culture at the VA and hearing and knowing there is a little bit more urgency behind these 

issues and that it doesn’t take us months to figure out who is responsible and to hold them accountable but we do it as soon as we 

have the appropriate information, I think would go a long way to 

restoring much needed faith and trust in the VA, especially around 

appropriations time and, obviously, for those whom we serve here, 

the veterans who depend on these services, so just that would be 

a message to you in terms of your response on that issue. And I 

hope you can update this committee sooner than later that you 

have dealt with this issue and held those accountable who were responsible for the failure here. 

Ms. PAPE. Absolutely. Just yesterday having conversations with 

our leadership about ensuring that this issue gets resolved quickly. 

None of us want veterans not getting service they need. It is just 

unacceptable, and we are on it. Thank you. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. The latest point-in-time report shows around 56 

homeless veterans in El Paso. I have a couple questions around 

that. One, does that include veterans who are currently in homeless shelters? 

Ms. HO. I can take that if you would like. Thank you, Representative, for that. The point-in-time count, communities go out and 

they count people who are getting homelessness assistance, either 

in a shelter or a transitional housing program, and people who are 

outside, so those are the groups that are counted in the point-intime count. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. So what I will want to do is offline, after this 

hearing, see how I can bridge the divide between what the El Paso 

Homeless Coalition counts and El Paso for Homeless Veterans, 

which is 154 who are sheltered with about 60 unsheltered, and so 

I thought the unsheltered numbers, 56 and 60, were close enough 

that that is who you are counting in the point-in-time. I just want 

to make sure I fully understand that. 

The kinds of questions I was asking Ms. Crone in terms of what 

should we be measuring—and I realize it is not all about data, but 

I do want to be able to measure those things that will give us an 

indication of where we have successes and where we have problems, where we need to spend our time and our resources. 

And then, related to that, prior to my being sworn in in November of 2012, we learned that a very large shelter in El Paso was 

approached by the VA to provide homeless services exclusively to 

veterans and to families of veterans who are homeless, and many, 

many months and maybe even years went by as this shelter tried 

to meet all of the recommendations and mandates I guess from the 

VA, and they spent hundreds of thousands of Dollars in doing this, 

and at the end of the day, the deal fell through. And, essentially, 

if I could sum it up, the VA said your facility does not meet our 

criteria, despite the fact that it had passed every single regulation 

and inspection in El Paso, from the Fire Department, the Health 


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Department, every city code inspector, et cetera. The capacity for 

that shelter is exactly the number of those who are unsheltered 

today in El Paso. I realize this is somewhat of a parochial issue but 

it is very, very important to me and the people I serve. 

I would love your commitment to sit down with us and go 

through what happened here and how it is we are going to ensure 

that we shelter and provide services for those who are unsheltered 

in El Paso right now. In other words, if there was a commitment 

and funds associated with that, can we get them reintroduced in 

the community in another way. I am running out of time, so I 

would love just to have your commitment to sit down with me and 

go over that. 

Ms. PAPE. Committed. I am there. You are so close to ending 

homelessness, we can get there. I am happy to sit with you. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Thank you. 

Ms. HO. I just want to mention that the point-in-time count happens in the third week of January, so an opportunity to participate 

in that would also I think mobilize the community on that. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Wonderful. 

Ms. HO. And that you had 56 unsheltered veterans and 67 sheltered veterans in the January 14 count. 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. 

I yield back. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you. 

Representative Walz. 

Mr. WALZ. Thank you. 

And thank you all for your commitment on this. It is evidence 

of your passion, your expertise, and you care deeply. And I, for one, 

am grateful for that. And I said I think what you understand and 

the folks who have been involved in that issue, the deep implications of that holistic approach in getting that home, because for 

what it means, it is the restoring the dignity and to be in many 

cases restoring the life. And in Mankato, the homes I was talking 

about in Minnesota, Radichel Townhomes there, all the good 

things, and they had wonderful things to say about everything, but 

I asked a veteran there, I said, Bill, what is the best part about 

this. And he said, It is a place where my grand kids come that feels 

normal. It is that reintegration into the community. It is that 

grandpa’s got a home. It is a place I can go. It is nothing out of 

the ordinary. It is grandkids visit their grandparent every day, and 

he is a grandparent. 

And so I think your commitment on it is right. I think we are 

all there. I think there are different approaches to it. And I think 

when we have setbacks, the commitment to getting them right. 

I just had a couple of questions. I want to be clear with all of 

you, Mr. Kelly especially on this. When I brought up a few years 

ago this issue of alignment, it wasn’t out of criticism of any of your 

agencies. I think the things you do, you do incredibly well. It was 

more of a concern at that point in time especially the disparate nature of all of the services that were available. There were many 

well-intended programs, both governmental and private sector and 

public-private partnerships, but how to deliver them. So my question is, is the areas of expertise that HUD or DoL, are those so specific to what you do that it is most effective and efficient to reside 


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there as opposed to bringing the experts over to VA as one stop? 

I know that is a broad, and it is not meant to be a loaded question. 

I know it can be. I just want to get my mind wrapped around it 

if that is the right way to go as we see because we are at a transformation point in VA, and this is the time to talk about these 

things. 

Mr. KELLY. Thank you for the question, and let me respond to 

it this way. The expertise in the whole employment arena, veterans 

or nonveterans, is at the Department of Labor. What is most important is collaboration amongst our fellow agencies. DoL brings to 

the table the employment and reemployment piece of it. Now, that 

is only one part. You certainly have to have the housing and the 

healthcare issues. So it was critical, it seems to me, that the U.S. 

Interagency Council on Homelessness, was created to make sure all 

of these things are addressed. I would offer, from our point of view, 

we have dealt with that very same thing at DoL with regards to 

employment and training. I just got back from a meeting with the 

Agricultural folks to look at veterans in agriculture training. Probably USDA is the best lead for that on the various programs they 

have. I would offer that same analogy here. It is just most important that we do TOUCH base with each other, and all come to the 

table with our expertise. 

Mr. WALZ. And I am grateful for that. How do you respond, 

though, and I am sure this not a new one, and you heard our first 

panelists, and they are committed just like you are, and they are 

understanding where you are at, but they expressed that and folks 

express it to me that it is again navigating that disparate bureaucracy to try to get there. I say that not as a pejorative. It is just 

the nature of things. Private businesses have bureaucracies. Some 

of them are good, and some of them are bad, so it is not an either/ 

or. How do you respond to them on that one when you heard some 

of the comments from the first panelists? 

Ms. HO. Congressman Walz, thank you for your leadership on 

this and for the opportunity to speak to this. I ran a nonprofit in 

Minnesota for 11 years that had different Federal grants, and so 

sitting in the Federal Government it is a very different view. HUD 

knows housing, and as Lisa tells me all the time, the VA is a 

healthcare system. They are just very different programs. I think 

the magic of the work that we have done together is by being able 

to work together not only federally but locally to make those systems sync up so that we are drawing the expertise of the public 

housing agencies and the homeless assistance providers and the 

healthcare providers at the VA. You know, could it be done in another way? Perhaps. But the reason that we are getting close to 

ending veterans homelessness in communities around the country 

is because they just get the right people around the table focused 

on the same goal. And so —— 

Mr. WALZ. And I agree with you. Is the next piece we are getting 

is that integration with the folks who were on the first panel of enhancing that? There is always going to be a certain amount of frustration. Again, I get it, if we just handed out the money and told 

people to do it, this room would be packed with cameras about 

where did the money go then. And that is our responsibility of trying to do it. Some of it would go to good places; some of it wouldn’t. 


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I understand there is that piece of it. My question is bringing more 

of them in to hear, and I know you do, of seeing the first panel as 

partners and equal partners to what you are doing and their expertise to bring it. Mr. O’Toole, my time is almost up if you want to 

finish with it. 

Mr. O’TOOLE. Real quickly. We are in a transformative process 

within the VA of going out into communities and partnering with 

communities, whether it is in our integrated primary care teams, 

all of which are doing outreach, our assertive community treatment 

teams doing mental healthcare in the community, as well as bringing these community agencies into the VA. It is about de-siloing, 

the care. I think your observation is spot on, and I think we are 

making progress. We aren’t where we need to be yet, but we are 

making progress in getting there. 

Mr. WALZ. Thank you. I yield back. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you, and thank you all for being here, for 

your work for veterans, for your testimony today. There will be 

questions for the record, and I would ask that you—oh, I am sorry. 

We have another member of the committee that just came in the 

door. 

Ms. Brown, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Ms. BROWN. Thank you, and I was watching you on television. 

You do this very well. Thank you. First of all, I want to put on the 

record that I am grateful for the work that Secretary Shinseki did 

as far as cutting down the homelessness problem that we have experienced in this country for a number of years. And so when history is written, he certainly should get the credit for cutting it 

down to one-third as we celebrate. And I am also grateful that we 

just got over $600,000 in my area for the HUD voucher program. 

One of the questions that I raised earlier is there doesn’t seem to 

be adequate beds for female veterans, in particular those with families. Can we address that, please? 

Ms. HO. I would be happy to take that question, Congresswoman. 

Thank you for that, and thanks for the opportunity to talk about 

the way that we are targeting towards female veterans. First of all, 

we track the number of female veterans that are appearing in our 

shelter system, and we track the number of female veterans that 

get access to the HUD–VASH program. And so what we know is 

that HUD–VASH is serving female veterans and their children at 

a higher rate, and we are doing some specific targeting around 

that, understanding that a mom with kids is in a uniquely vulnerable situation. So one of the great uses of HUD–VASH is really 

around targeting around moms and kids. 

To the question of how much housing is needed, this really is an 

area where the work that we are doing with specific communities 

is very focused because historically, if you took a look at the way 

that homelessness programs worked, they worked largely in isolation. And one of the big transformations that is going on right now 

is around this concept of coordinated assessment, kind of a one-stop 

shop, with kind of a triage referral. But also helping communities 

recognize every single resource that they have and then looking at 

the numbers and figuring out what the gaps are and strategizing 

around how to fill those gaps in a very deliberate way. 


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It sounds like just good strategic planning, but historically, that 

is not necessarily the way that communities operated. Homeless 

programs operated in isolation. Nobody had a good count of all of 

the resources. There wasn’t a good understanding of the difference 

between the number of people experiencing homelessness on a single night versus people who come through the system over time. So 

we are getting smarter in all of those areas, and that is helping 

communities do these gaps analyses to figure how much of what do 

we need, and equally importantly, are there things that we used 

to need when we were doing it the old way that we are not going 

to need as much of any more. 

Ms. BROWN. Thank you. 

I had read in the paper that they were cutting out meals because 

the city was cutting back on programs of the State, so I called in 

the Department of Agriculture. And they came in, and so the 

groups came together and did a grant. And they are working together. So it is not just HUD. It is all of the stakeholders working 

together to make sure that we do everything we need to do to fill 

those gaps in. 

Ms. HO. I had the pleasure of working at the U.S. Interagency 

Council on Homelessness before I came to HUD, and that is 19 

Federal agencies working together on a single Federal strategy, 

and that is the first time that this level of collaboration not only 

with the partners that I have at the table here today, but the other 

agencies that are part of it. Everybody shows up, and everybody is 

trying to figure out what is our piece of getting this job done. 

Ms. BROWN. Thank you very much, and thank you for your service. 

And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. 

Mr. LAMBORN. Thank you, and I will, once again, thank you all 

for being here, for your work to help veterans. 

There will be questions for the record, and I would ask that you 

respond to those in writing. The second panel is now excused. I ask 

unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to 

revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous material. 

I would also like to thank once again all of our witnesses on both 

panels and audience members for joining us this morning. Merry 

Christmas and Happy New Year, and this meeting is now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 1:52 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

f 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN JEFF MILLER

Welcome to today’s Full Committee oversight hearing—the last of the 113th Congress—‘‘Evaluating Federal and Community Efforts to Eliminate Veteran Homelessness.’’ 

At this time of year perhaps more than any other, the thought of anyone—particularly anyone who served our nation in uniform—without a home or a safe place to 

sleep is simply heartbreaking. 

Unfortunately, homelessness—or the constant threat of it—has become a way of 

life for far too many of our nation’s veterans. 

In 2009, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) initiated a five-year plan to 

eliminate veteran homelessness and, as that deadline fast approaches, I am pleased 


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to report that VA has succeeded in reducing veteran homelessness by approximately 

thirty-three percent. 

Yet, as long as a single veteran struggles with housing instability or homelessness, our work remains. 

Troubling, a VA Inspector General (IG) report issued just last week found that 

VA’s National Call Center for Homeless Veterans missed well over forty-thousand 

opportunities to link homeless veteran callers to VA medical facilities and ensure 

they received needed services. 

Some of these missed opportunities resulted from the unavailability of Call Center 

staff during peak business hours when veteran callers were transferred to answering machines instead of Call Center employees. 

This is unacceptable for any government program but particularly for one that 

serves a population as vulnerable as this. A population that for some, the ability 

to merely make a phone call is logistically challenging. 

I look forward to hearing today how VA is correcting the serious deficiencies that 

the IG found and holding those at fault accountable for their management and oversight failures. 

Unfortunately, the Call Center is just one concern I have with VA’s many homeless programs. 

Based on information from VA, the Department has roughly twenty different programs designed to get homeless veterans off the streets and provide them with 

housing, healthcare, and employment assistance. 

The Departments of Housing and Urban Development and Labor also have programs aimed at achieving these same goals. I am encouraged to see the level of cooperation between these government agencies. 

I understand that homeless veterans are a varied and complex group and one program alone cannot effectively treat the unique needs of them all. 

However, the plethora of different programs that are in place today beg the question of whether significant overlap exists that both wastes taxpayer Dollars and limits the effectiveness of any single program’s ability to effectively care for veterans 

in need. 

I also have concerns about the increasingly insular focus the Department is placing on ‘‘permanent’’ housing. 

Except for the very few veterans for whom housing instability may be a lifelong 

concern due to underlying health conditions, the foremost goal of every program 

serving homeless veterans should be providing a bridge to an independent, purposefilled life—not a permanent, government-sponsored home. 

Over the last several years, the American taxpayer has devoted record amounts 

of their hard-earned Dollars to eliminating veteran homelessness, with funding for 

targeted homeless programs increasing by almost three-hundred percent and funding for healthcare for homeless veterans increasing by more than eighty percent 

since fiscal year 2009. 

But despite this considerable investment, veteran homeless will never be completely eliminated so long as veterans struggle with underlying health conditions 

and economic crises. 

Quickly and effectively diagnosing and treating those underlying health conditions 

and providing veterans who are able with job training and placement services is 

critical to empowering homeless veterans to successfully reintegrate into stable community environments. 

To truly honor and respect the service of a homeless veteran is to provide him 

or her with a pathway to a life of dignity and self-sufficiency, not just four walls 

and roof. 

f 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MICHAEL H. MICHAUD

Thank you Mr. Chairman. 

The VA’s goal of ending veteran homelessness by the end of 2015 is an ambitious 

goal. Remarkable progress has been made by VA to meet this challenge, but there 

is much still that remains to be done. 

As we all recognize, VA cannot meet this goal alone—it will take the concerted 

action of the Federal government and the assistance of organizations and individuals all across the country. 

I look forward to the hearing today so that we can evaluate the effectiveness of 

this effort, and applaud the real progress that has been made. 

According to reports, homelessness among veterans has declined by 33 percent, 

to roughly 50,000, since 2010. 


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This is an accomplishment we can all take pride in, but there are still homeless 

veterans, and it is simply unacceptable that any of our veterans do not have a roof 

over their head. 

I am also concerned that we are not taking adequate steps to address special populations, such as homeless women veterans and those that need serious and sustained assistance. 

Today’s hearing provides us with the opportunity to continue this discussion. It 

provides us with the opportunity to discuss how we define the goal of ending veteran homelessness, the resources that need to be committed, and the work that remains to be done in the year ahead. 

I am excited about today’s hearing, but it is also bittersweet for me. 

This marks my last hearing as a Member of this Committee, and this Congress. 

Although I am looking forward to the opportunities and challenges that lay before 

me in the years ahead, I will miss this Committee and the work that it does. 

To the incoming Ranking Member, Ms. Brown, in your 22 years on this Committee, you have been a strong voice for veterans and the VA. Congratulations, and 

I hope you enjoy being Ranking Member as much as I did. 

To my fellow Democrats on the Committee, I cannot thank you enough for the 

work you have done. You have made it very easy for me to serve as Ranking Member. I appreciate the energy and the new ideas you have brought to this Committee. 

I hope you will all continue our efforts here in the next Congress and in the years 

ahead. 

To my friends on the other side, I applaud you and thank you, too, for your efforts. I cherish the friendships that I have with many of you. This Committee is 

truly a special place. Although there are times when we share different perspectives 

on how best to serve our veterans, we often worked together, without regard to 

party and without the usual rancor that many believe is elemental to the legislative 

process. 

I hope the American people look to this Committee as a model, and insist that 

their representatives do what we do so easily here—work together to get the job 

done. 

I wish to thank our staff, on both sides of the aisle. They work tirelessly, often 

with little credit, to make this Committee function and to do their best for veterans. 

I want to thank Nancy and my staff on this side of the aisle for your tireless effort. 

I want to thank John Towers and the Republican majority staff as well. The committee staff has done a phenomenal job over the last couple of years. I really appreciate the work that you have done, especially the administrative staff who do the 

day-to-day tasks that enable everything around here to function, and make us look 

good. 

I wish to thank the many employees at the VA, and their efforts to care for and 

serve veterans. Too often media headlines level broad accusations against all VA 

employees, and not just the few who have performance issues. There are good news 

stories, and there are good VA employees. 

I wish to thank the VSOs and veterans who work with us to make real the promises that this nation has made to all of our veterans. You are partners in our efforts 

and essential to our work. Keep up the good fight! 

Finally, Mr. Chairman, I really do appreciate our friendship over the years. And 

as you mentioned, we meet a lot of individuals here in Congress. A lot we consider 

friends. There are some we consider friends in a more special way. I consider you 

a very good friend. We have switched roles over our time as Members of Congress; 

me being chair, you being ranking member and vis-α-vis. And I really appreciate 

your openness, your willingness to listen to me as a minority member and as a 

ranking member. I want to thank you very much. 

I know you have talked on the House floor, and in this committee about coming 

to the State of Maine, about how you want to be able to shoot a moose. Hopefully, 

you will not forget that dream. In the meantime, I have something I would like to 

present to you, Mr. Chairman. 

In Maine, in the woods, moose lose their antlers. I have a constituent that goes 

through the woods to collect discarded moose antlers to carve. This is the half of 

a moose antler carved with an eagle’s head. 

Mr. Chairman, I would like to present it to you in your drive to actually get a 

full moose in the State of Maine. And I would like to present this to you as a parting gift for your friendship and your loyalty. But also, for the work you have done 

for veterans over a number of years, putting aside partisan politics to do what is 

right for our veterans. So here is a freedom antler with an eagle from the State of 

Maine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. 


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PREPARED STATEMENT OF BAYLEE CRONE, NATIONAL COALITION FOR HOMELESS

VETERANS

Chairman Jeff Miller, Ranking Member Michael Michaud, and distinguished 

members of the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs: 

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before this Committee today. My name 

is Baylee Crone and I am the Executive Director of the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans. On behalf of the more than 2,100 community and faith-based organizations NCHV represents, I would like to thank all of you for your steadfast commitment to serving our nation’s most vulnerable heroes. 

This testimony will focus on our understanding of the progress made to end veteran homelessness in this country, particularly: 

• National progress made toward ending veteran homelessness. 

• Matching services to the needs of homeless and at-risk veterans. 

• Successes of permanent housing, transitional housing, employment, and prevention interventions. 

Additionally, this testimony will outline the benefit of coordinated outreach and 

intake systems in rapidly directing veterans to the local services that meet their 

most immediate needs. 

National Decline in Veteran Homelessness 

The national decline in veteran homelessness since 2009 is without precedent. 

The success we have seen to date, and our future success relies on the strengths 

of VA’s front lines—the community providers and VA case managers who fight the 

daily battle to do more, better and faster. The momentum is on the side of rapid 

change, and we are closer than ever to achieving our mission of effectively ending 

veteran homelessness. However, ending veteran homelessness is not a moment; it 

is a moving target. 

To make progress toward our mission, we must see drops in the Point in Time 

(PIT) count, but that is not the only aspect of change we must see. We must see 

immediate engagement of services when a need arises, rapid response to those on 

the streets, and a continuation of successful permanent housing placement. We 

must empower community agencies to meet specific needs of individual veterans 

using targeted services through data-driven programs. 

As the number of veterans on the street and in temporary shelter goes down, we 

will need to be more, not less, diligent in ensuring that we provide a hand up to 

those who remain on the street and find themselves at high risk. We will end veteran homelessness, but reaching that benchmark happens when the systems in 

place are ready and able to immediately meet a veteran’s needs should he fall into 

homelessness or be at high risk. As we make progress, resources will need to be redeployed, not withdrawn. 

Across the country, our community organizations and VA partners are stepping 

in with a safety net and a hand up to self sufficiency and independence. We are 

fostering empowerment, we are halting cycles of abuse, and we are educating and 

protecting. These activities may not show up in a point in time count, but they are, 

and will continue to be, the actions protecting against homelessness for many veterans. 

National Declines: The Point in Time Count 

Looking at one measure, the 2014 PIT count, tells an important part of this story: 

on a single night in January, 49,933 veterans were homeless. This 33 percent decline since 2009 is more than a statistic—it represents a real, measurable, downward trend in homelessness among veterans. Veteran homelessness dropped 10 percent in one year, representing the steepest decline since veteran homelessness 

dropped 12 percent from 2010 to 2011. Homelessness among unsheltered veterans 

dropped 14 percent in one year, representing a greater than 40 percent decline since 

2009. These significant drops happened as community organizations and VA Medical Centers (VAMCs) have improved outreach and targeted services for those with 

the most significant barriers. The challenges remain daunting, but they are surmountable with close coordination of complementary programs on the local level. 

While the PIT count presents a useful benchmark for tracking progress, it only 

shows part of the picture of who experiences homelessness throughout the year and 

who receives services from VA and other community programs. The PIT count is a 

snapshot; other data build out a more nuanced scene of the challenges we face and 

the road ahead. 

National Declines: Beyond the Point in Time Count 

In FY 2014, 80 percent of unsheltered veterans moved out of unsheltered status 

within three days. As VA stated in their annual report, ‘‘this metric pushes the sysVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00064 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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tem to move literally homeless veterans off the streets and into safe and stable temporary housing.’’ In that same period, 50,730 veterans achieved permanent housing 

through the Supportive Services for Veteran Families (SSVF) program, far outpacing the VA’s goal of 40,000. These data points begin to show us the full picture: 

veterans are engaging VA when they need help, are moving rapidly off the streets, 

and are successfully moving into permanent housing. 

The VA has also innovated to improve efforts on the ground. The VHA Programs 

Office updated its Homeless Gaps Analysis to include quarterly actual data and 

VAMC operational strategies. They also launched the 25 Cities campaign to promote 

community-based solutions to ending veteran homelessness in high-need areas. The 

picture gains more clarity: results are being meticulously and consistently tracked 

to improve targeting to meet specific local and individual needs. The system has improved, and it is working. 

Looking at the PIT count, service usage trends, and changes in data processing 

helps us to track progress, but still, the full picture of change is not clear with this 

information alone. The stories of homelessness are pervasive in our work: an elderly 

veteran on a fixed income loses his roof in a bad storm but cannot afford to fix it; 

a mother with debilitating post-deployment headaches is unable to work and must 

choose between asking for help and keeping her family together; a recently 

transitioned young veteran living in his car struggles to keep up in school to retain 

his GI Bill. 

Matching Needs to Services 

At NCHV, we demand that individual needs match specific services. We do not 

have a ‘‘homeless veteran population’’—we have individual veterans who are homeless and who have specific and unique needs profiles to be addressed through a coordinated system of care. Wherever chronic, episodic and recent, or at-risk homelessness exists, the VA and its community partners must be ready and armed. 

Needs of Chronically Homeless Veterans 

We see veterans who are chronically homeless. Those individuals make up the 

majority of the unsheltered point in time count numbers, and are those targeted 

through the HUD–VASH program. As of September 30, 2014, 91 percent of vouchers 

allocated to local communities for HUD–VASH led to permanent housing. Of those 

admitted into the HUD–VASH program, 71% met the definition for chronically 

homeless. By exceeding its target of 65%, VA showed a commitment to ending homelessness for those most vulnerable veterans in need of the intensive services offered 

by HUD–VASH. 

These data points are built on a foundation of behind-the-scenes coordination. 

Progress has required collaboration between the local Public Housing Authorities, 

local landlords, and VA personnel and grantees. Through this collaboration, they 

have identified high-need homeless veterans, streamlined verification, inspection, 

and approval processes, and rapidly placed these veterans into available housing 

units. 

Needs of Episodically and Recently Homeless Veterans 

We see veterans who are episodically or recently homeless. Those individuals 

make up a large portion of the sheltered homeless count, a smaller portion of the 

unsheltered count, and a significant portion of those needing services who are outside of formal counting systems. They are couch surfing and in and out of transitional housing, shelters, and treatment programs. 

These veterans connect to services through an extensive local outreach network. 

In communities across the country, homeless veteran service providers partner with 

the VAMC, community clinics, and Continuum of Care partners to ensure that 

homeless veterans seeking care encounter a ‘‘no wrong door’’ approach to outreach: 

no matter where the veteran accesses services, he is assessed and referred to the 

local agencies that can best meet his specific needs. 

If the veteran needs a place to sleep that night and services while a housing plan 

is developed, intake workers can refer him to residential treatment programs 

through VA, like Grant and Per Diem (GPD). As of the end of FY2014, VA had 

reached its annual goal for discharging veterans into permanent housing from GPD. 

If the coordinated intake process identifies the need for employment assistance, the 

veteran can be referred to a local Homeless Veteran Reintegration Program (HVRP). 

This program placed over 10,000 veterans into gainful employment in FY2013, with 

a cost per placement under $3,000 per veteran. 

Again, improved results rest on the shoulders of behind the scene changes. GPD 

programs across the country are lowering barriers to entry to make services more 

accessible. They develop service menus based on each individual veteran’s goals so 

that the transition from homelessness to stable housing is a rapid and sustainable 


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one. HVRP grantees have integrated innovative employment placement strategies 

into their programs, continuing to successfully place homeless veterans in competitive employment even in a challenged economy. 

Needs of At-Risk Veterans 

We also see those who are at risk of homelessness. These veterans may be one 

lost paycheck, one expensive utility bill, one broken down car away from losing their 

housing stability. They are often not counted in the Point in Time count, but they 

are here at our doorsteps and are often engaged in services through the Supportive 

Services for Veteran Families Program (SSVF). In FY 2013 alone, over 44,000 veterans and veteran family members were assisted through homelessness prevention 

SSVF resources. The data shows that these individuals obtained and maintained 

housing: among veterans receiving SSVF prevention services and exited to permanent housing destinations, 90 percent did not use VA homeless services within a 

year after their exit from the SSVF program. 

Magnifying Impact through Coordination of Services 

We can end chronic homelessness; we are already doing it through HUD–VASH 

and Housing First. We can functionally end episodic and recent homelessness; rapid 

rehousing infrastructure, transitional housing, and income interventions are joined 

together to make this happen. We can get ahead of homelessness through prevention; SSVF serves more veterans and their families more cost effectively every single 

year. The full picture is complicated, but it is lit up with hope. 

Ending veteran homelessness starts with the veteran, and people are complicated. 

Some individuals with complicated needs profiles will be served by several programs. This does not mean that services are being duplicated, but rather that organizations and programs work together to address specific barriers to permanent 

housing. 

Serving Chronically Homeless Veterans 

Targeting chronically homeless veterans for rapid placement sometimes requires 

utilization of other programs to fill needs when no other resources exist in a community; this could include SSVF for security deposits in competitive rental markets or 

GPD as bridge housing between living on the streets and moving into housing while 

a unit is inspected and approved. 

Serving Episodically and Recently Homeless Veterans 

Serving episodically or recently homeless veterans, especially those who do not 

qualify for HUD–VASH, requires bridge housing and employment and income services to make affordable housing within reach. This could include pairing the vocational services of an HVRP case manager trained in labor market information and 

employment placement with the benefits and transitional housing services of a GPD 

program. A veteran may be referred to both programs, but for complementary, not 

duplicative, services. Utilizing some aspects of both programs, the veteran will obtain enough income to afford an apartment on his own. 

Serving At-Risk Veterans 

Sustaining at-risk veterans in the housing they have requires quick action and 

creative coordination; this could include a utility bill paid through SSVF and the 

intervention of another community organization with a strong landlord relationship 

to prevent an eviction. Because of their longstanding reputation for service in local 

communities, this community organization is often a GPD provider. 

Evolving Needs, Evolving Programs 

Needs will never disappear, but they are already evolving—and programs are 

adapting to them. SSVF has evolved based on constant feedback and best practices, 

and it is serving more vulnerable veterans per Dollar every year. HUD–VASH’s integration of Housing First principles gives strong case management and consumer 

choice the driver’s seat in collaborative care. HVRP’s adoption of Job-Driven Training and connection to American Job Centers and DOL labor market information allows homeless veterans to receive front-line connection to gainful employment. 

We believe in and will defend effective deployment of targeted resources to fuel 

research-based interventions when and where they are needed. We must be diligent 

in the collection of empirically sound data so programs and the organizations executing these programs are responsive locally. They will need to continue to magnify 

impact by simultaneously addressing various barriers. Local programs are our force 

multipliers, pulling the entire community into the mission of ending veteran homelessness through the gravity of its importance. 

At NCHV, we do not advocate for the unqualified growth of resources for the sake 

of expanding programs. We believe a surge is still needed now, not because we set 

a goal for 2015 and want to check a box, but because we have the momentum now 


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to make it happen. Building and sustaining those strongholds requires maintenance 

of infrastructure so homelessness is not simply paused, but truly stopped. 

In Summation 

Thank you for the opportunity to present this testimony at today’s hearing. It is 

a privilege to work with the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs to ensure that 

every veteran in crisis has access to the support services they have earned through 

their service to our country. 

Baylee Crone, Executive Director, 

National Coalition for Homeless Veterans, 

3331⁄2 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, 

Washington, DC 20003, 202–546–1969 

NCHV Disclosure of Federal Grants 

Grantor: U.S. Department of Labor 

Subagency: Veterans Employment and Training Service 

Grant/contract amount: $450,000 

Performance period: February 2014 – February 2015 

Indirect costs limitations or CAP limitations: 20 percent 

Grant/contract award notice provided as part of proposal: No 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF STEVEN R. BERG, VICE PRESIDENT FOR PROGRAMS AND

POLICY NATIONAL ALLIANCE TO END HOMELESSNESS

Chairmen Miller, Ranking Members Michaud, and members of the Committee, on 

behalf of our Board of Directors, our President Nan Roman, and our thousands of 

partners across the country; thank you for providing the National Alliance to End 

Homelessness the opportunity to testify today. We are grateful to you for holding 

a hearing on veterans homelessness and what we are doing and can do to end it. 

The National Alliance to End Homelessness works closely with federal policymakers 

as well as with state and local government, businesses, nonprofit organizations and 

many others who believe that homelessness should not be tolerated in the United 

States. 

Homelessness Among Veterans 

Our nation witnesses far too many veterans living on the streets. The number of 

homeless veterans has declined substantially in recent years, but is still far too 

high. While most veterans are well housed, a substantial minority are burdened 

with high housing costs, which combined with other factors can leave them at risk 

of homelessness. As a nation we have undertaken a concerted effort to solve the 

problem, which is a good thing, since without that effort there are many reasons 

to believe that the problem would become worse. Thousands of Americans are returning from the Middle East, with the kinds of demographic traits and disabilities 

that we know to be risk factors for homelessness, to an economy with unemployment that is still too high. Without continued hard work, there would be a grave 

possibility that an entire new generation of veterans will become stuck in homelessness. 

It is important to recognize that not all homeless veterans are the same. At the 

one extreme, some homeless veterans have severe disabilities, particularly related 

to behavioral health, and have lived on the streets or in shelters for long periods 

of time. This pattern has been referred to as ‘‘chronic homelessness,’’ and it costs 

taxpayers substantial money in emergency healthcare, jails, shelters and other 

emergency ‘‘services.’’ Returning these veterans to safety and housing often requires 

long-term rent subsidies, and intensive social services and medical care. 

While this is probably most Americans’ stereotype of what a homeless person is 

like, and while there are certainly a percentage of homeless veterans who are like 

this, it is a minority. Most veterans and other Americans who experience homelessness do so because of personal economic crises. They do not have profound disabilities. Their lack of housing is often a serious barrier to getting their lives back on 

track; but program models knows as ‘‘rapid re-housing’’ have shown that if that barrier is removed through return to housing, they can succeed through their own devices or with short-term help to afford housing. 

The Alliance is enthused and hopeful in light of the work that has already been 

done and the reductions that have already occurred. The federal government’s part 

in this work is being carried out pursuant to a commonsense plan, organized around 


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a clear understanding of the problem and a commitment to solve the problem. The 

rest of this testimony will review what has happened so far, and what needs to happen between now and the end of 2015 to bring about the best possible results. 

What’s Been Done, What Remains to do to House All Homeless Veterans 

In 2008 the Alliance presented testimony at a hearing held jointly by the Senate 

Appropriations subcommittees with jurisdiction over VA and over HUD. The topic 

was what to do about homelessness among veterans. At that point we talked about 

how we as a country needed to take four big steps in order to end homelessness 

for veterans. I am happy to say today that VA, HUD and Congress have taken three 

of those steps, and are in the middle of step four. We could still stumble, we could 

still not succeed; but if we finish what’s been started in the right way, we can see 

the number of homeless veterans fall substantially, to the point where communities 

that use the help available to them and follow through can end veterans homelessness by the end of 2015. 

Step one: ‘‘command and control’’ infrastructure. Step one was to put in place a 

national plan and monitoring system that would be based on real data to determine 

what is working, what isn’t, and how much progress is taking place. That piece is 

in place. The creation of the National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans has 

been extremely important in this regard. The Center, a joint project of VA and the 

University of Pennsylvania, provides a context for leading national experts on homelessness to use the rich data that is available on the use of VA programs, combined 

with other research and data on homelessness. The close cooperation of the National 

Center with the program offices within the Veterans Health Administration, and 

with staff in the Secretary’s office, provides a ‘‘command and control’’ function that 

is essential. 

Step two: a full range of interventions. Step two was to expand the range of program models to make effective practices available for the full range of veterans who 

are homeless. This, too, has been accomplished. At the time, in 2008, most housing 

for homeless veterans was being provided through the Homeless Grants and Per 

Diem program, a two-year transitional housing model. This is a model that works 

very well for certain people, but we believe anyone running such a program would 

agree that it is not for everyone. To end homelessness requires a range of programs 

so that everyone can get what he or she needs. As noted above, some homeless veterans, particularly those experiencing chronic homelessness, have permanent disabilities combined with other issues that make a transitional program unrealistic 

for them. The HUD–VASH program was put in place to address these needs. On 

the other hand, people who become homeless due to a short-term economic emergency can escape homelessness with short-term help to deal with that crisis. The 

‘‘rapid re-housing’’ model, implemented at VA through the Supportive Services for 

Veteran Families program, has proven extremely effective at ending homeless for 

this group, at substantially less cost than either permanent or transitional supportive housing programs. 

It is important to note that there are eligibility issues. Not everyone who served 

on active duty in the military is eligible for these programs, because of discharge 

status or the complex rules relating length of service and the era in which a veteran 

served. This has been further complicated by recent statements by VA. Our hope 

is that some of these issues can be resolved by Congress; and that better coordination of discharge upgrade programs carried out by veterans service organizations 

with homelessness programs will resolve the issues for some; and that HUD-funded 

and other programs can, despite the financial stress that they are under, re-house 

the rest. 

Step three: Go to scale with program capacity. Step three was to fund those various interventions at the scale necessary to get the job done. As of this writing, VA 

budget requests and Congressional appropriations are on the verge of getting this 

done as well. Our estimate is that if Congress funds VA’s FY 2015 budget request, 

it will finish the job of putting money on the table for communities to be able to 

provide housing, through HUD–VASH, GPD, and SSVF, for every veteran who experiences homelessness today and through the end of 2015. SSVF is the newest of 

these programs, and it has proven to do exactly what it sets out to do. VA has requested permission to move funding from other parts of its budget to increase 

grants to communities for SSVF, based on the latest solid data about what is needed. 

Step four: making it work at the community level. That brings us to step four, 

which is for every community to organize itself so that every homeless veteran is 

located, identified, and matched up with the right intervention to end his or her 

homelessness; and that these interventions work at peak efficiency, focused on 

quickly re-housing every homeless veteran they serve. We as a country are in the 


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process of taking that step. VA is mobilizing its staff at local medical centers to 

make this happen. Mayors are taking part in campaigns to get other mayors to commit to this. Providers from the HUD-funded homelessness system are reaching out 

to VA-funded providers to share information and coordinate their work. The Alliance, based on years of work with communities that have succeeded in reducing the 

number of people who are homeless, believes that there are five key things that 

need to happen at the community level: 

• Leaders in each community need to oversee the effort, using a solid plan and 

data to monitor progress. 

• Communities need to set clear numerical goals for how many veterans need 

to be housed, how quickly. 

• Leaders, program operators, and others need to be accountable for taking the 

specific actions they have committed to. 

• Proven strategies need to be implemented in a skillful way: outreach, crisis 

housing, rapid re-housing, permanent supportive housing, and a coordinated 

system to ensure that each veteran gets access to the program that’s right for 

him or her. 

• Leaders need to communicate with the entire community about what is getting done, and what help is needed, particularly by landlords and employers in 

the community. 

VA needs to make every possible effort to get its employees, grantees and contractors behind making sure that these five things are happening. VA has a number 

of efforts under way to provide technical assistance that will help make that happen. 

Making Sure Homelessness Stays Ended 

When these four steps are complete, there will be few if any veterans who remain 

homeless on a given night. Which leads to the next step, the first step beyond veterans homelessness—to put in place a system that will find vulnerable veterans before they ever become homeless, and prevent their homelessness entirely. We are 

quite a way from having such a system. For the time being, ending homelessness 

will mean that while additional veterans may become homeless, as soon as a homeless veteran is discovered, help is there to provide whatever is needed in order to 

end that instance of homelessness. Programs to find veterans who become homeless, 

ensure their safety, and rapidly rehouse them will need to continue in place. This 

system will need to transition over time into an effective system of homelessness 

prevention. In the end, a prevention system will employ the kind of research and 

data analysis that the National Center already has under way. It will require careful thought about the right kinds of interventions, and how they should be targeted 

to veterans who would most likely become homeless without them. It will require 

work by this Committee and others to redeploy these resources so that we can all 

say, never another homeless veteran. 

Congress’s Part 

Besides oversight of the ongoing effort, there is work for Congress to do in order 

to bring this result about. Most important are the following: 

Ensuring that funding remains available. The appropriations committee has responded well to VA’s budget requests for these efforts. There is, however, great uncertainty over the federal budget over the next few years. As those discussions take 

place, it will be important to stand behind the work to end veterans homelessness. 

Short-range fixes. There are some minor changes needed to federal statutes to remove certain barriers to implementation. These changes should be made via the earliest possible legislative vehicle. They are the following: 

• Provide VA with more flexibility to use funds for the programs that are needed most at the time. The current limit of $300 million per year for SSVF, in 

particular, underfunds this program and should be raised to ‘‘such sums as are 

necessary.’’ 

• Codify existing eligibility rules for VA homelessness programs. For many 

years, the GPD and now the SSVF program have served homeless veterans with 

various other-than-dishonorable discharges, even if, because of complicated 

rules regarding era and length of service, the veterans are not eligible for the 

full range of VA health services. A recent communication from VA, now suspended, called this practice into question, based on a new reading of statutes. 

Estimates by providers indicate that as many as 15 percent of homeless veterans would be left without help from these effective programs is this ruling 

were to go into effect. Congress should at least clarify that these veterans are 

eligible for these homeless services. 


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• Authorize the National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans. As noted 

above, this Center provides a forum for expert examination of VA and other 

data and research, ensuring that VA’s practices are informed by the best possible analysis. To have it authorized in statute would ensure ongoing support 

as the U.S. makes the challenging transition from solving the problem of veterans homelessness, to ensuring the problem never recurs. 

• Ensure VA has waiver authority to allow changes in GPD. Many GPD providers are finding that reductions in the number of homeless veterans, and the 

focus by VA on moving further in that direction, are causing severe difficulties. 

Congress should provide VA with waiver authority to allow GPD providers in 

communities where veterans homelessness has declined substantially to experiment with different models, including very short term housing for veterans experiencing housing crisis; and recovery housing for veterans who were but are 

no longer homeless, but are recovering from addiction or other severe difficulties. 

Longer term statutory change to prevent veterans homelessness from recurring. 

Existing VA programs that were designed to serve homeless veterans will need to 

do different things and serve different people when the number of homeless veterans is very small. They will, however, need to be there, to provide help when veterans have crises that leave or threaten to leave them without places to live. To 

move to a prevention-based homelessness system, there will need to be careful 

thought about what services are needed, which veterans need them, and how incentives can be established that will reward providers for effective work. This project 

should be undertaken and completed by the next Congress. 

Promote the local efforts. Every member of the U.S. Congress is a leader in his 

or her local community. As noted above, success at ending homelessness requires 

local commitment and local action. The Alliance encourages members of this Committee, and all members of Congress, to get involved with the issue locally, and do 

what they can to make sure that the communities they represent understand what 

they have to do to bring the number of homeless veterans down to zero. 

Steven R. Berg 

Curriculum Vitae 

Experience: 

Vice President for Programs and Policy, National Alliance to End Homelessness, 

October 1997 to present (previously Director of Programs). 

Senior Policy Analyst, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, September 1996 to 

September 1997. 

Staff Attorney, Connecticut Legal Services, September 1990 to August 1996 (Norwalk and Bridgeport Offices). 

Executive Director, Legal Aid Foundation of Santa Barbara County, August 1987 

to August 1990 (previously Staff Attorney). 

Staff Attorney, Contra Costa Legal Services Foundation, September 1983 to August 1987. 

Education: 

Harvard Law School, J.D. 1982. 

Lewis and Clark College, B.A. 1978. 

Disclosure 

The National Alliance to End Homelessness is party to a subcontract to provide 

technical assistance to communities, as part of a contract with the U.S. Department 

of Veterans Affairs. Under this subcontract the Alliance will be paid a maximum 

of $130,000 for its work. 

f 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JOHN F. DOWNING, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER

Chairman Miller and members of the Committee, I am honored to be here today 

on behalf of Soldier On and the 3,815 veterans we serve each year. Soldier On has 

become the largest provider of supportive services to veterans in the United States 

and operates eight SSVF (Supportive Services for Veteran Families) grants throughout five eastern states. This was accomplished with early assistance from Congressmen Richie Neal and James McGovern of Massachusetts. With the help of Congressman Chris Smith of New Jersey and Congressman Chris Gibson of New York, Soldier On has also been able to expand its SSVF services to 36 counties in New York 

and 8 counties in New Jersey. In addition, Soldier On serves 76 Counties in MisVerDate Aug 31 2005 08:53 Feb 02, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00070 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 Y:\96-139.TXT PAT

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sissippi, 23 counties in Pennsylvania, and the four counties of Western Massachusetts. 

Next year, we are slated to increase our breadth of service and assist more than 

5,315 veterans and family members with a special focus on the chronically homeless 

veterans whose lives are reduced by an average of 20 years compared to their stably 

housed counterparts. 

The Department of Veterans Affairs’ goal to end veteran homelessness by 2015 

was not a goal that could take place without examining and combatting the underlying effects of poverty that cause homelessness. The lack of safe, affordable housing 

with services on-site has allowed veterans in poverty and those suffering from untreated and undertreated mental health and addiction disorders to be left forgotten 

and alone in their prolonged states of homelessness. Eliminating homelessness requires society to look at the causes of poverty, which are rooted in a capitalist society and its impact on the standard of living and lack of educational/vocational training opportunities. The reality is that our goal has been to bring each homeless veteran back to the center of their life. 

With great help from the National Director of Homeless Programs, Lisa Pape, Soldier On became a leading Grant/Per Diem shelter bed provider for the VA and realized that we needed to provide veterans with a stable living facility with services 

delivered where they live. Soldier On has built a first of its kind limited equity cooperative in Pittsfield, Massachusetts that has become home for 39 formerly homeless 

veterans. The safe, sustainable, affordable housing development was honored with 

a HUD Doorknocker award in 2011 for its quality and innovation in assisting veterans. Transportation and case management, along with medical and mental health 

services are delivered to each veteran where he or she lives so that appointments 

are met and the veteran receives the support necessary to ensure success and dignity. Currently, Soldier On is in the development phase of constructing eight more 

of these facilities throughout the East Coast including one on the grounds of the 

VA in Leeds, MA. This enhanced use lease project received great support from Paul 

Macpherson and will utilize VAi2 funds and will be a first of its kind project in 

which the VA and Soldier On will partner to serve veterans in limited equity units 

of their own. 

Soldier On has made a commitment to partner in SSVF with agencies which have 

a history with tenancy preservation and housing search upgrades for eligible veterans as well as mentoring programs that train and enable veterans to provide services to keep them safely housed. We couple these services with a housing resiliency 

stabilization program that works with ‘‘high risk’’ veterans in need of rapid rehousing and support. These veterans can call into our hotline which is staffed 24 hours 

of the day so that a case manager can be sent to a veteran’s home within 48 hours 

to address their individual needs. As a result of this, we found our costs were driven 

down. These SSVF supportive services cost an average of $2,400 to $4,400 for atrisk veterans in need of housing who are not getting VA care compared to the 

$42,000 it costs for a veteran who is in GPD care. 

The VA is continuing to try to provide services using a medical model which does 

not and cannot help all homeless and at-risk veterans, and often leaves the most 

disconnected of them unserved. Following a model promoted by Vince Kane and the 

VA National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans in Philadelphia, we must divert the current VA funding to proactive programs such as Housing First with services delivered to veterans where they live. The VA needs to become more community 

based and responsive to partnering with community providers in offering integrated 

housing, healthcare and employment services where the veteran lives so that we can 

create an environment in which veterans can heal. We must look at the mind, body, 

and spirit together. We can’t just divide a person into parts and disorders that we 

can treat in different silos. This creates a cost system that is dehumanizing and degrading to the men and women who served our country. Delivering services to people where they live eliminates decompensating episodes, non-compliance, and relapse. 

By providing veterans with Housing First, services delivered to where they live, 

and training for employment opportunities, we can strengthen our veteran communities and restore the dignity and support that has been taken from veterans after 

years of neglect and disservice. 

Thank you for your time. 

John F. Downing, Chief Executive Officer Soldier on, 421 North Main Street 

Building 6, Leeds, MA 01053, 413–822–8364 

The Fight Doesn’t End When They Get Home, 

421 North Main Street Building 6 Leeds, MA 01053 (413) 582–3059 and 360 West 

Housatonic Street Pittsfield, MA 01201 (413) 236–5644 www.wesoldieron.org 


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PREPARED STATEMENT OF PHIL LANDIS, PRESIDENT AND CEO VETERANS VILLAGE OF

SAN DIEGO

As a matter of disclosure you should be aware that I am a member of the VA 

Advisory Committee on Homeless Veterans and I am neither speaking for the VA 

nor the Advisory Committee today. 

VVSD is a nationally recognized non-profit and non-governmental organization 

that has served veterans since 1981. Using five pillars: prevention, intervention, 

treatment, aftercare, and employment services, VVSD assists veterans who have 

substance abuse and mental health issues, including men and women recently returned from Iraq and Afghanistan. Working with addiction case managers and mental health professionals, residents rebuild lives, repair relationships, and return to 

society as productive citizens. 

Veteran Treatment Center (VTC) 

Factors underlying Veteran homelessness such as mental health issues and substance use disorders are often related to conditions and experiences veterans encounter during their time in service to our country. (e.g., Military Sexual Trauma 

(MST), Combat injuries treated with opiates). All too often, the very medication 

used to treat their pain leads to a physiological dependency on opiates. When the 

opiate medication is stopped, many experience withdrawal symptoms and seek out 

ways to ‘self-medicate’. Unfortunately, many of these men and women ‘‘treat’’ their 

withdrawal symptoms by using street drugs, such as heroin. This predictable path 

often results in failed drug screens and separation from military service. They are 

often denied honorable discharge making them ineligible for VA Healthcare benefits. 

This administrative separation results in lost jobs, lost income, lost housing, and 

lost benefits which results in addicted veterans being homeless on the streets and 

unable to obtain lifesaving services. The VA is committed to three month long research studies with veterans to determine new evidence based practices and treatment protocols. These 12 week group treatment research programs unfortunately do 

not provide for ongoing individual therapy or follow up. 

The emphasis on permanent housing first is an admirable and reasonable idea for 

many homeless veterans. However, for veterans with co-occurring disorders, housing 

without treatment is a major risk factor for those in need of higher level of services. 

The absence of Shelter Plus Care options for these homeless veterans makes remaining sober and stabilized on psychotropic medications nearly impossible if 

housed alone. If untreated or unmanaged, these diseases are progressive and life 

threatening. 

Citation: 

Protective Factors and Risk Modification of Violence in Iraq and Afghanistan War 

Veterans. (767–773) Eric B. Elbogen, PhD.; Sally C. Johnson, MD; H Ryan Wagner, 

PhD; Virginia M. Newton, PhD; Christine Timko, PhD; Jennifer J Vasterling, PhD; 

and Jean C. Beckham, PhD. 2012 Physicians Postgraduate Press, Inc. 

This study shows that treatment and rehabilitation services such as those offered 

at VVSD support that ‘‘ . . . clinical intervention directed at treating mental health 

and substance abuse problems, psychosocial rehabilitation approaches aimed at improving domains of basic functioning and psychological well-being may also be effective in modifying risk and reducing violence among veterans.’’ 

Although the VA provides comprehensive medical care to those who meet the criteria for immediate services, veterans with less urgent problems are not viewed as 

a priority and have two choices: (1) Wait several months for an appointment or (2) 

be seen at the hospital Emergency Department. This results in veterans feeling devalued, acute problems not receiving necessary medical attention, and excessive cost 

for emergency room care that could have been handled on an urgent care basis. An 

urgent care walk-in system is desperately needed to address the day to day medical 

issues veterans experience. 

Many medical providers working at the VA seem to lack in-depth knowledge 

about substance use disorders and the risks involved with prescribing large amounts 

of controlled substances. (e.g., one day outpatient procedure results in a veteran filling his prescription for 180 Oxycontin). 

Grant Per Diem and Employment 

The VA is putting most of their Dollars into Rapid-Rehousing & VASH. They have 

eliminated new funding for GPD. GPD funding focuses on treatment and employment combined with transitional housing. I feel there is a need for both. The VA 

continues to fund existing GPD Programs which are essential to serving the range 

of needs of homeless veterans. The SSVF Program requires that GPD referrals be 

made during the first 30 days of living in such programs and requires all GPD veterans secure permanent housing within 90 days. This is often too early to know if 


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SSVF is an appropriate referral source and should be reviewed as a mid-course correction. HUD has put more emphasis in recent years on reducing the length of stay 

for homeless people (including veterans) who reside in transitional housing programs which may not always be in the best long term interest of some veterans. 

Joint HVRP/HUD: These 2 programs work well together. HVRP is focused on veterans securing jobs. HUD is focused on Housing for Homeless Veterans and other 

homeless people. The challenge is that with the high rate of PTSD and unemployment among younger veterans, evidence suggests there is a need to increase HVRP 

funding. 

SUPPORTIVE SERVICES FOR VETERAN FAMILIES (SSVF)

Since the inception of our Supportive Services for Veteran Families (SSVF) Program in 2013, we have to date enrolled 180 veteran households who were homeless 

or at risk of becoming homeless. Of the 180 veteran households, we were successful 

in placing 90% of these families into permanent housing. We’ve seen that more and 

more veterans are struggling to find employment and it has become even more difficult for them to secure sustainable income when there is not a roof over their 

head. The SSVF program is a great tool in fighting homelessness amongst the veteran population. The program prevents homelessness amongst veteran families and 

works with those who are homeless to rapidly enter permanent housing utilizing the 

Housing First model; this model is centered on placing homeless families into permanent housing, and then providing the appropriate services tailored around addressing their housing barriers. 

This model works very well for the Post 9/11 generation who only need a ‘‘hand 

up’’. Many of the Post 9/11 veterans that come across SSVF seeking services don’t 

need the totality of our assistance. One of the benefits of the Housing First model 

is that the singular focus is on addressing the participant’s housing crisis. However, 

we’ve seen that SSVF participants who are not ready to address their primary cause 

of homelessness, whether it’s substance abuse or mental health issues, are not ready 

to maintain long term housing stability. Therefore, having the option to be in a formal treatment setting or transitional housing program benefits them in the long run 

and gives them the opportunity to work on their barriers prior to obtaining permanent housing. 

One of our goals at VVSD is to break the cycle of homelessness amongst veterans 

and their families. In order for us to succeed in our efforts, we think it’s crucial that 

we address the various reasons veterans become homeless. Not all veterans are 

ready to sustain themselves in housing and not every veteran will have substance 

abuse or mental health challenges, but having both SSVF and the VVSD Veteran 

Treatment Center in the same agency allows VVSD to make a difference in the veteran community. One size does not fit all and homeless veterans deserve the opportunity to choose the program that is most appropriate to meet their needs. 

In conclusion: At Veterans Village of San Diego (VVSD), we believe intensive 

treatment leads to self-sustaining independence, the maximizing of human potential 

and a meaningful, fulfilling life. Our veterans are worthy of nothing less. Furthermore, we believe in providing services tailored to the veteran’s needs and desires 

utilizing a client-centered approach focused on addressing their primary causes of 

homelessness. 

Respectfully, 

Phil Landis, President & CEO 

f 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DR. CASEY O’DONNELL

Good morning Chairman Miller and esteemed committee members. My name is 

Dr. Casey O’Donnell. I am currently the Chief Operating Officer of Impact Services 

Corporation in Philadelphia. For the last 20 years Impact has been providing both 

housing and employment focused programs to homeless Veterans who suffer from 

both mental illness and alcohol and/or drug abuse. Impact’s current continuum of 

housing include one-hundred fifty (150) beds of supportive transitional housing 

under the VA’s Grant and Per Diem (GPD) Program and supportive permanent 

housing under HUD’s Supportive Housing Program (SHP). Impact’s program was 

one of the first and is one of the few programs in the nation exclusively serving dually diagnosed formerly homeless Veterans. Since, 1994, Impact has also been providing employment services to over three hundred (300) homeless Veterans annually 

under the Department of Labor’s Homeless Veteran Reintegration Program (HVRP). 

In addition to these programs, Impact has recently received a ‘‘Surge’’ Priority 1 

grant under the VA’s Supportive Services for Veterans Families (SSVF) Program 


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and Impact has been a partner in collaboration with Project HOME and the Veterans Multi-services Center in Philadelphia in SSVF for the last three years. Over 

the last year, Impact has been extremely active in the VA’s Boot Camp and Twentyfive Cities initiatives working to end Veteran homelessness in Philadelphia. Finally, 

Impact will break ground on twenty-six units of affordable, permanent housing for 

low-income Veterans and their families on Monday, December 15th. This new permanent housing for 26 Veteran families will be available in September 2015 and 

will contribute to ending Veteran homelessness. We are working in close collaboration with the VA National Center on Homelessness among Veterans to provide all 

of these services from a Trauma Informed Care model. Along with other community 

based housing providers I was invited to participate in the National Center’s 

workgroup to implement Trauma Informed Care across the nation both within the 

VA and among community based partners. The National Center has been an invaluable collaborative partner in the provision of care to homeless veterans and the Center’s work related to training and implementation will been critical to success. We 

believe that our testimony is derived from a place of competence and experience. 

Men and women who have proudly served our country through military service 

should not be allowed to suffer in their addictions and mental illnesses on the 

streets of any city for one night longer. It is all of our job to find Veterans a safe 

place to live, recover from trauma and substance abuse, and improve the quality of 

their lives. In fact it is believed by those of us who are providers that ‘‘trauma informed care is necessary to eradicate homelessness among veterans’’. 

Setting the deadline of December 31st, 2015 to end homelessness among Veterans 

has become a critically important milestone for our country. The deadline has provided us with a sense of urgency and dedication. The deadline is producing hard 

work, determination and teamwork where previously there was disconnection and 

a lack of accountability. Over the last eleven (11) months, in partnership with our 

many collaborative partners, we have placed 556 homeless Veterans in permanent 

housing in Philadelphia. We have approximately 540 Veterans left to house before 

the deadline of December 31st, 2015. 

The goal of ending Veteran homeless in Philadelphia is within our sights. 

We are ending Veteran homelessness in Philadelphia by developing a ‘‘Safety Net’’ 

system that ‘‘catches’’ Veterans before they become homeless, provides intervention 

when necessary to keep them housed, gets them housed again if they have slipped 

back into homelessness and most importantly, addresses their mental health challenges and/or addiction in an appropriate manner at whatever level needed as early 

as possible to prevent or address long-term homelessness. This safety net is critically important as we look at the Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who are potentially vulnerable, may be suffering, and may be headed towards homelessness. Research provided by the National Center on Homelessness Among Veterans suggests 

that this rapid safety net approach is allowing approximately 80% of Vets to stay 

housed after ninety days of case management and temporary financial assistance 

through SSVF. Recent data provided by the City of Philadelphia’s Office of Supportive Housing also shows that the number of actual homeless Veterans on the 

streets and in many programs has decreased by 15% from 2013 to 2014. We expect 

that percentage to dramatically decrease in 2015 and to come to ‘‘functional zero’’ 

by January 2016. 

This Safety Net system has only been possible within the context of real partnerships that are being forged between the community and the VA as part of the Boot 

Camp and Twenty-five Cities Initiatives in response to the December 31st, 2015 

deadline. These partnerships have brought HUD, the VA, local municipalities, housing authorities and community organizations like Impact, to a common table where 

systems have been changed by bringing two continuums (the City and the VA) into 

alignment on outreach and assessment and eventually on placement and retention 

to ensure that Vets are being moved into housing. 

Further, I would like to say that housing without jobs or increased benefits is only 

a short term strategy. Supportive housing integrated with programs to get Vets into 

jobs and/or access to benefits or increased benefits provides a long-term recipe for 

self-sufficiency. We would like to see the VA and the Department of Labor work 

closely to integrate community based job training and job development into the current housing activities funded for Veterans. A good place to start would be a pilot 

with community-based Veteran organizations like Impact to better integrate SSVF, 

GPD, and HUD–VASH housing with the HVRP Program. 

Finally, Impact currently operates four (4) Grant and Per Diem (GPD) programs 

that move homeless Veterans with a mental health diagnosis and drug and/or alcohol addiction through various stages of recovery to self-sufficiency according to their 

needs. Our program is currently full. It is full because there remains a critical need 

for GPD to provide stable housing and services for Veterans suffering from mental 


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illness and substance abuse and/or dependency. Impact is extremely interested in 

working with Congress and the VA to test out several additional models of housing 

utilizing the VA’s GPD program as the foundation of funding. Specifically, we would 

like to see a percentage GPD beds converted to provide supportive services and permanent (as opposed to only transitional) housing for formally homeless Veterans 

with mental health and substance abuse issues that require a higher degree of support than independent living can provide. We would also like to operate additional 

Safe Haven beds in Philadelphia that would have the ability to provide ‘‘wet’’ housing for chronic alcohol addicted veterans during a flexible period from ninety (90) 

days up to two (2) years. This will provide adequate time to work with the Veteran 

to get them stabilized and ready for recovery. Graduates of ‘‘wet’’ Safe Haven housing could move into Impact’s current GPD transitional housing and eventually into 

independent living or supportive, permanent housing funded by HUD and/or the 

VA. 

In conclusion, on behalf of my colleagues at Impact, myself, and the veterans that 

we serve I would like to thank the members of Congress for this opportunity to testify. 

Sincerely, 

Casey O’Donnell, 

PsyD Chief Operating Officer Impact Services Corporation, 

codonnell@impactservices.org, 215–423–2944 ext. 152 


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