### 1

1 2 3 ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 

### 4 PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED ACTION TO IMPLEMENT 

### 5 BEST AVAILABLE RETROFIT TECHNOLOGY AT 

### 6 CHOLLA, CORONADO AND APACHE GENERATING STATIONS 

### 7 8 9 10 11 12 HOLBROOK, ARIZONA 

### 13 AUGUST 14, 2012 

### 14 15 16 17 ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. 

### 18 Court Reporters 

### 19 (800) 288-3376 

### 20 www.depo.com 

### 21 22 REPORTER: 

### 23 JOSIE ROPER 

### 24 AZ CSR # 50511 

### 25 FILE NO.: A607E8E

### 2

1 APPEARANCES: 

### 2 3 HEARING OFFICER: Gerardo Rios 

### 4 SPANISH INTERPRETER: Alicia Nieto-Jacobs 

### 5 NAVAJO INTERPRETER: Joanna Austin-Manygoat s 

### 6 TIME KEEPER: Francisco Dóñez 

### 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

### 3

1 P R O C E E D I N G S 

### 2 3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Welcome and good 

### 4 evening. The public hearing is now in session. My 

### 5 name is Gerardo Rios. I'm a public hearing officerfor 18:14:10 

### 6 of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Region9 

### 7 in San Francisco, California, and the presiding off icer 

### 8 for today's hearing. 

### 9 With me today are several individuals f rom 

### 10 the EPA Region 9 Air Division: Colleen McKaughan, 18:14:26 

### 11 Associate Director of the Region 9 Air Division, 

### 12 Francisco Dóñez from the Arizona Region 9 Planning 

### 13 Office, who will also be acting as our time keeper, 

### 14 Roberto Gutierrez from the Permits office, 

### 15 and Margot Perez-Sullivan from EPA's Office of Publ ic 18:14:46 

### 16 Affairs. We also have Josie Roper serving as our c ourt 

### 17 reporter for this hearing, Joanna Austin-Manygoats as 

### 18 our Diné interpreter, and Alicia Nieto-Jacobs for our 

### 19 Spanish interpreter for anyone who needs 

### 20 Spanish/English translation. Ms. Jacobs has headphones 18:15:10 

### 21 so that you can hear the translation in English and 

### 22 Spanish simultaneously. For anyone that needs 

### 23 assistance with Diné, Ms. Manygoats will provide 

### 24 assistance as needed. 

### 25 The purpose of today's hearing is to 18:15:28

### 4

1 accept the public's comments as part of the officia l 

### 2 record on the Environmental Protection Agency's 

### 3 proposed action to partially approve and partially 

### 4 disapprove the Arizona Regional Haze SIP, and to 

### 5 implement Best Available Retrofit Technology at thr ee 18:15:46 

### 6 coal-fired power plants in Arizona: The Coronado 

### 7 Generating Station, the Cholla Power Plant, and the 

### 8 Apache Generating Station. As part of this action, EPA 

### 9 is proposing to require installation of new control s 

### 10 for nitrogen oxide emissions at all three facilitie s. 18:16:04 

### 11 On July 12, 2012, EPA signed a proposed 

### 12 partial approval and partial disapproval of the Ari zona 

### 13 Regional Haze SIP which can be summarized in the 

### 14 following manner: A proposal to approve the State' s 

### 15 BART emission limits for sulfur dioxide and particu late 18:16:22 

### 16 matter at the three facilities, and a proposal to 

### 17 disapprove the BART emission limits for nitrogen ox ides 

### 18 at most of the units at the three facilities. And as a 

### 19 remedy to the disapproval, a proposed Federal 

### 20 Implementation Plan, or FIP, containing new emissio n 18:16:42 

### 21 limits for nitrogen oxides as well as the associate d 

### 22 compliance requirements. 

### 23 You can find details about EPA's propos ed 

### 24 actions in handouts at the back of the room and on 

### 25 EPA's website. 18:16:54

### 5

1 My role as the presiding public hearing 

### 2 officer is to insure that the Environmental Protect ion 

### 3 Agency receives your oral public comments in an orderly 

### 4 fashion. I will not be involved in assessing or 

### 5 responding to your comments. Likewise, I will not be 18:17:08 

### 6 involved in EPA's final decision-making process forthe 

### 7 three coal-fired power plants. Instead, I am solel y 

### 8 facilitating this proceeding to make sure all community 

### 9 members have an equal opportunity to submit oral 

### 10 comment on this issue as part of the official 18:17:25 

### 11 administrative record. 

### 12 Before we begin accepting your comments , I 

### 13 would like to describe the ground rules for today's 

### 14 hearing. 

### 15 First, this hearing is a formal legal 18:17:35 

### 16 proceeding, and the testimony offered will become p art 

### 17 of the administrative record on which EPA will baseits 

### 18 decision. Public notice of this hearing was publis hed 

### 19 in the Federal Register on July 9, 2012, for Phoeni x 

### 20 and on July 31, 2012, for hearings in Holbrook and 18:17:53 

### 21 Benson. A hearing in Benson will be held on August15, 

### 22 2012, or tomorrow. 

### 23 This hearing is being recorded by a cou rt 

### 24 reporter, who will be preparing a verbatim record o f 

### 25 the hearing. If you present oral comments at today 's 18:18:08

### 6

1 hearing, please speak clearly and slowly so that the 

### 2 court reporter can understand you and record your 

### 3 comments accurately. I also ask that the audience 

### 4 refrain from interrupting other speakers or asking 

### 5 questions during any presentations. This courtesy will 18:18:27 

### 6 also help the court reporter to record comments 

### 7 accurately. 

### 8 Shouting, noise making or any disruptive 

### 9 conduct which prevents speakers or hearing official s 

### 10 from being heard or any other failures to follow the 18:18:41 

### 11 rules of the hearing are not permitted. Also, plea se 

### 12 silence your phones. If you need to take a call, 

### 13 please either go outside or to the back of the room . 

### 14 This will allow the court reporter to record all 

### 15 comments accurately. Please note that you'll have the 18:18:56 

### 16 opportunity to make comments shortly once we begin the 

### 17 public comment portion of this hearing. 

### 18 Banners and posters will allowed to be 

### 19 placed in the rear of the room. However, banners and 

### 20 posters that are attached to a stick will not be 18:19:11 

### 21 allowed in the hearing room. If you wish to carry a 

### 22 banner or poster with you to your seat, you will be 

### 23 asked to sit in the back of the hearing room so youdo 

### 24 not obstruct the visibility of the individual seate d 

### 25 behind you. Any sign or banner may be excluded from 18:19:28

### 7

1 the hearing room if it is determined to be disrupti ve 

### 2 to the conduct of the hearing. 

### 3 There is a registration table at the 

### 4 entrance of the room. If you would like to make or al 

### 5 comments at today's hearing, please fill out the 18:19:42 

### 6 speaker request form which is located at the 

### 7 registration table. We will receive oral public 

### 8 comments in the order in which the speaker request 

### 9 forms are received. Please write your name legibly , as 

### 10 the court reporter will be relying on the card for the 18:19:55 

### 11 correct spelling of your name. Before giving us your 

### 12 comment, please state your name for the record. 

### 13 If you do not wish to speak today, you can 

### 14 also submit written comments for the official record. 

### 15 Written comments submitted through the U.S. Postal 18:20:11 

### 16 Service must be postmarked on or before September 1 8, 

### 17 2012. 

### 18 You may also submit written comments on 

### 19 the comment card. There is a comment box at the 

### 20 registration table where you can leave your written18:20:26 

### 21 comments. 

### 22 If you submit written comments, it is n ot 

### 23 necessary for you to give the same oral comments as 

### 24 well, but you may do so if you wish by submitting a 

### 25 speaker request form. 18:20:37

### 8

1 Written comments and oral comments will 

### 2 receive equal consideration by EPA in making the fi nal 

### 3 decision. 

### 4 The oral comments received at this hear ing 

### 5 and all written comments received today will be 18:20:51 

### 6 reviewed and considered by EPA in preparing its fin al 

### 7 rule-making decision. 

### 8 It's important for you to know that we are 

### 9 here only to take comments on EPA's proposed best 

### 10 available retrofit technology determination for 18:21:04 

### 11 nitrogen oxides for the Coronado, Cholla, and Apache 

### 12 power plants. EPA will only consider comments rela ted 

### 13 to EPA's proposed actions at these facilities in ma king 

### 14 its final decision. So I ask that you refrain from 

### 15 making comments that are not related to this specif ic 18:21:19 

### 16 action. 

### 17 EPA decisions on Clean Air Act rules ar e 

### 18 typically made with the participation of a number o f 

### 19 people within the organization. EPA staff cannot 

### 20 commit to any specific decision related to the prop osed 18:21:34 

### 21 SIP and FIP today. 

### 22 The purpose of this hearing is for EPA to 

### 23 listen to your comments. Therefore, EPA will not b e 

### 24 providing responses during this hearing. Rather, E PA 

### 25 will prepare a written summary of the comments it 18:21:53

### 9

1 receives, and the responses to comments will be 

### 2 available at the time EPA issues its final BART 

### 3 decisions for the three power plants. EPA will not 

### 4 make the final decision on NOx BART for the three p ower 

### 5 plants until all comments submitted during the publ ic 18:22:10 

### 6 comment period have been considered. 

### 7 A copy of the transcript for today's 

### 8 hearing will be available for inspection at EPA's 

### 9 office in San Francisco as well as on EPA Region 9' s 

### 10 website. If you wish to purchase an official copy of 18:22:25 

### 11 the transcript, please make arrangements with the c ourt 

### 12 reporter directly following the hearing. 

### 13 In a few minutes, I will begin calling on 

### 14 speakers who have filled out and submitted a speake r 

### 15 request form. Speakers will be called in groups of18:22:38 

### 16 five in the order in which the forms were received. 

### 17 When you hear your name, please come forward and wa it 

### 18 until it is in your turn to speak. We have designa ted 

### 19 five seats in the front so you can sit in order. 

### 20 When I announce that it is your turn to18:22:54 

### 21 speak, please come up to the microphone, state your 

### 22 name, and if you are appearing on behalf of someoneor 

### 23 an organization, please tell us who you are 

### 24 representing. Please also spell your name so that the 

### 25 court reporter can record your name correctly. 18:23:08

### 10

1 If you are not in the room when I announce 

### 2 your time to speak, I will recall you after all other 

### 3 speakers have made their oral comments. 

### 4 If you would like to hear today's 

### 5 proceeding in Spanish or if you would like to make 18:23:22 

### 6 comments in Spanish, we have the services of a 

### 7 Spanish/English interpreter. If you will be making 

### 8 your oral comments in Spanish, the interpreter willbe 

### 9 asked to stand next to you at the microphone. Plea se 

### 10 say one sentence and wait for her to translate your18:23:40 

### 11 statement into English for everyone to hear before your 

### 12 next statement. Similarly, statements may be 

### 13 translated into Diné. If you would like to make 

### 14 comments in Diné, we have the services of a Diné 

### 15 interpreter. If you are making your comments in Di né, 18:23:55 

### 16 the interpreter will be asked to stand next to you at 

### 17 the microphone. Please say one sentence and wait f or 

### 18 her to translate your statement into English for 

### 19 everyone to hear before your next statement. 

### 20 We want to make sure that everyone has an 18:24:07 

### 21 opportunity to speak here tonight. To that end, I ask 

### 22 everyone who speaks to please make your oral commen ts 

### 23 brief. To assist in this effort, I'm asking the 

### 24 speakers to limit their comments to three minutes. If 

### 25 you have lengthier comments, you may submit them in18:24:24

### 11

1 writing. Each speaker will be given a one-minute 

### 2 warning and notified when their time is up. After all 

### 3 speakers have had a chance to comment and time permits, 

### 4 speakers can submit additional speaker request cards to 

### 5 provide additional testimony if the time limit was not 18:24:41 

### 6 long enough for them to do so when they first spoke . 

### 7 Finally, as you look around the room, t o 

### 8 my right you can see an emergency exit. There's a 

### 9 number of exits here. And there's restrooms near the 

### 10 entrance. You also have a little bit of water in 18:25:00 

### 11 front, in case anybody gets thirsty. 

### 12 Now let us begin the comment period. The 

### 13 first speakers are: Chester Crandell. Penny Pew, 

### 14 District Director for Congressman Gosar, Mike Humme l, 

### 15 Geoff Oldfather, and Micheal Dunn. 18:26:07 

### 16 Mr. Crandell, you may come up to the 

### 17 microphone to speak. 

### 18 MR. CRANDELL: Thank you very much. My 

### 19 name is Chester Crandall. I'm in the House of 

### 20 Representatives from the State of Arizona. I also sit 18:26:20 

### 21 on the Environment Committee. 

### 22 A couple of things that I would like to 

### 23 bring to your attention. Having attended a meeting 

### 24 last summer at the Agriculture Summit in Washington , 

### 25 DC, the comments were made and promises were made that 18:26:42

### 12

1 EPA would not change the regulations or do anything 

### 2 unless it was based on true scientific knowledge, n ot 

### 3 on modeling scientific information, and as related to 

### 4 the economic impact that it would have on the 

### 5 communities in which those regulations would be pla ced. 18:27:05 

### 6 Number one, I think the regulations have 

### 7 been set, the timeline has been set, the research has 

### 8 been done, and ADEQ, who's in charge of the Arizona 

### 9 State's Regulatory Affairs was in the process of 

### 10 implementing these regulations that had been set an d 18:27:26 

### 11 had been agreed upon to be able to implemented by the 

### 12 year 2064 according to my knowledge. 

### 13 All of a sudden, we have a change in 

### 14 plans. There's been speculation -- and I'm not pri vy 

### 15 to say for sure -- but there's been speculations that 18:27:46 

### 16 deals were made with special interest groups to be able 

### 17 to implement this at a faster pace than what it nee ds 

### 18 to. And because of these deals, if this was followed 

### 19 through, it is going to impact the State tremendous ly. 

### 20 We are going to lose jobs. We're going to lose homes. 18:28:05 

### 21 We're going to lose the economic benefit to the Sta te, 

### 22 which at this point in time with the economic downturn 

### 23 would be devastating to this area. 

### 24 I would implore, and I would hope that the 

### 25 message would get back that we stay this until ther e is 18:28:24

### 13

1 complete scientific knowledge or scientific based 

### 2 evidence that it will make a difference, and that i t 

### 3 will be economically feasible, so that we don't los e 

### 4 the economic benefit that we have with the power pl ants 

### 5 in the State of Arizona. Thank you. 18:28:44 

### 6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Penny Pew. 

### 7 MS. PEW: My name is Penny Pew. I'm he re 

### 8 on behalf of Congressman Paul Gosar. The congressman 

### 9 continues to fight the disturbing regulations that 

### 10 threaten to shut down Coronado, Cholla, and Apache 18:29:09 

### 11 Power Plants, an action that would eliminate hundre ds 

### 12 of people's income; that would increase energy cost s 

### 13 for all of Arizona. We need common sense regulatio ns. 

### 14 The EPA should be working with the State to developa 

### 15 Regional Haze Plan. The Clean Air Act, in fact, 18:29:21 

### 16 requires it. Regional haze is not a one size fits all. 

### 17 The unique nature of Arizona and our role of plants 

### 18 necessitates the federal government work with Arizo na 

### 19 to develop a plan. This would be a plan that wouldbe 

### 20 best for the economy and the environment, not placa te 18:29:37 

### 21 the environmental groups. 

### 22 Congressman Gosar asked for an addition al 

### 23 hearing in St. Johns, the home of Coronado Plant an d 

### 24 was rejected by the EPA because they couldn't afford 

### 25 it. 18:29:52

### 14

1 We then offered additional funds to help 

### 2 with that, and again we were rejected. So I encour age 

### 3 everyone to continue to submit written comments, 

### 4 because closing down those plants is not an option. 

### 5 Thank you. 18:30:05 

### 6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Michael Hummel. 

### 7 MR. HUMMEL: Thank you. My name is Mike 

### 8 Hummel. I'm the Associate General Manager and Chie f 

### 9 Power System Executive at the Salt River Project 

### 10 Agricultural Improvement and Power District, SRP. S RP 18:30:26 

### 11 provides retail electric service to over 950,000 

### 12 customers and operates Coronado Generating Station. 

### 13 Coronado and the other two power plants 

### 14 provide a vital economic engine for the rural 

### 15 communities in which they're located. They provide18:30:37 

### 16 local tax revenue that supports vital community 

### 17 services. 

### 18 EPA's actions have reached the point where 

### 19 they affect the economic viability of coal plants. It 

### 20 is nonsensical under these conditions to move forwa rd 18:30:47 

### 21 with costly haze regulations that will not improve 

### 22 visibility. 

### 23 Indeed, SRP is in the final stages of 

### 24 installing extensive new pollution control equipmen t at 

### 25 Coronado Generating Station at a cost of over 500 18:31:01

### 15

1 million dollars. EPA's proposed FIP is particularl y 

### 2 troubling, as it calls for additional controls even 

### 3 before the current equipment installation process i s 

### 4 complete. 

### 5 SRP believes the proposed FIP is flawed18:31:15 

### 6 based on inadequate cost analysis and defective 

### 7 modeling. SRP respectfully requests that EPA withdraw 

### 8 its proposal and work collaboratively with the Stat e's 

### 9 entire Regional Haze Implementation Plan. 

### 10 EPA should consider and act on the Stat e's 18:31:30 

### 11 implementation plans and all of the matters togethe r, 

### 12 rather than singling out three power plants for 

### 13 implementation of overly stringent NOx limits, 

### 14 especially considering that the NOx emissions from the 

### 15 power plants are responsible for less than five per cent 18:31:46 

### 16 of the haze in the region. 

### 17 SRP has retained the engineering 

### 18 consulting firm Sargent & Lundy to help review EPA' s 

### 19 cost estimates. EPA is projecting that a second SCR on 

### 20 Unit 1 will cost only 57 million dollars. The SCR on 18:31:58 

### 21 Unit 2 which is nearing completion is expected to c ost 

### 22 about 90 million dollars. 

### 23 Clearly EPA's estimation techniques do not 

### 24 account for site-specific conditions, which should be 

### 25 considered in a source-specific BART analysis. Sargent 18:32:13

### 16

1 & Lundy's site-specific estimates for Coronado showthe 

### 2 second SCR will cost about 110 million dollars. 

### 3 There is no basis for EPA to dismiss these 

### 4 site-specific costs developed by a professional 

### 5 engineering firm in favor of a cost estimate based on 18:32:28 

### 6 generic assumptions. 

### 7 EPA's modeling shows no perceptible 

### 8 visibility benefits. 

### 9 SRP notes that EPA's modeling approach 

### 10 found that none of the proposed control scenarios would 18:32:38 

### 11 improve visibility by one deciview at any of the Cl ass 

### 12 I areas near Coronado. EPA tries to obscure this key 

### 13 conclusion by applying a cumulative deciview metric . 

### 14 SRP strongly objects to the use of this metric. 

### 15 To conclude, EPA's proposed action is 18:32:57 

### 16 misguided and unsupported. It is clearly not cost 

### 17 effective to mandate additional controls at Coronado 

### 18 Generating Station that would produce no visibility 

### 19 benefit. EPA should withdraw the FIP and support the 

### 20 State's Comprehensive Regional Haze Plan. 18:33:12 

### 21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Geoff Oldfather. 

### 22 MR. OLDFATHER: Thank you very much for 

### 23 this opportunity. I am Geoff, spelled, G-e-o-f-f, 

### 24 Oldfather. I'm a Communications, Marketing, and Public 

### 25 Relations Manager for Arizona Electric Power 18:33:36

### 17

1 Cooperative, which owns the Apache Generating Stati on. 

### 2 Part of my job responsibility is to know our member s, 

### 3 the people we serve, and because of that, I know how 

### 4 they're affected by normal economic challenges in the 

### 5 county. 18:33:45 

### 6 Our customer base is relatively 

### 7 economically disadvantaged. In requiring the 

### 8 installation of controls at a cost estimated by AEPCO 

### 9 of up to 219 million could impose a disproportionat e 

### 10 burden on our members. Now these factors make 18:34:01 

### 11 affordable rates even more critical for AEPCO and our 

### 12 members. Nationally, the service territory average 

### 13 household income for electric cooperatives falls almost 

### 14 11 percent below the U.S. average household income. 

### 15 For Arizona Cooperative customers, these conditionsare 18:34:15 

### 16 more acute. Cooperative customers average -- 

### 17 (Court reporter interrupted to ask the 

### 18 speaker to slow down.) 

### 19 MR. OLDFATHER: Cooperative customers 

### 20 average 16.4 percent lower household income than the 18:34:35 

### 21 rest of the state, and 18.3 percent lower than the U.S. 

### 22 average. The per capita income of AEPCO consumers is 

### 23 29 thousand a year, a staggering 39 percent lower than 

### 24 the national average. 

### 25 Coops, as not-for-profit entities, must18:34:53

### 18

1 pass these costs on to their members. I would liketo 

### 2 share just one example of how profoundly a dramatic 

### 3 increase in cost of electricity would affect our 

### 4 members. 

### 5 Debra Hess is a resident of Benson. She 18:35:03 

### 6 owns a small hair salon in a mobile home park with rent 

### 7 subsidies for her clients. They receive mental hea lth 

### 8 services from Southeast Arizona Behavior Health 

### 9 Services. Her business has declined by a third sin ce 

### 10 2009 since people have lost their jobs. In order f or 18:35:17 

### 11 her doors to stay open, all of her equipment has to 

### 12 stay plugged in. And her electric bill is the largest 

### 13 business cost she has. If it even went up even 10 

### 14 percent, she said it might force her to close her 

### 15 doors. In the mobile home park, eight of the ten 18:35:32 

### 16 tenants are physically or mentally disabled. Client s 

### 17 not only of SABHS, but also of other aid agencies that 

### 18 subsidize their living expenses. She pays the elec tric 

### 19 bill for the park. She says if she has to pass on the 

### 20 increased costs, she doubts those clients would be able 18:35:47 

### 21 to pay them. She would probably have to close the 

### 22 park, and they would have nowhere to go. 

### 23 Her story is just a microcosm of what our 

### 24 rural districts and our residents deal with. They 

### 25 reflect what a majority of our resident -- or our rural 18:35:59

### 19

1 residents, rather, deal with every day. The questi on 

### 2 of how to get by and just put food on the table andthe 

### 3 cost of everything, including electricity, is goingup. 

### 4 They are literally just surviving. 

### 5 In conclusion, electric utility coops have 18:36:14 

### 6 a responsibility to the consumers who bear the costof 

### 7 meeting these various regulatory obligations. 

### 8 The EPA's proposal to require selective 

### 9 catalytic reduction and the costs associated with the 

### 10 installation and implementation of these controls w ill 18:36:28 

### 11 place a significant and disproportionate cost burde n on 

### 12 AEPCO and its members and could potentially undermi ne 

### 13 the viability of AEPCO to cost effectively serve ou r 

### 14 people. Thank you very much. 

### 15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Micheal Dunn. 18:36:47 

### 16 MR. DUNN: Good evening. My name is 

### 17 Micheal Dunn, M-i-c-h-e-a-l, D-u-n-n. I'm presiden t 

### 18 and chief executive officer of PacifiCorp Energy, the 

### 19 division of PacifiCorp that operates our electric 

### 20 generating facilities, which serves more than 1.7 18:37:03 

### 21 million residential and business customers. 

### 22 Cholla Unit 4 is operated by Arizona Public 

### 23 Service. PacifiCorp owns and is responsible for the 

### 24 environmental compliance costs for Cholla Unit 4. 

### 25 PacifiCorp also owns portions of an additional 18 BART 18:37:19

### 20

1 eligible units in the West. 

### 2 Regional haze is primarily a state issu e. 

### 3 The Clean Air Act and EPA's own rules require regio nal 

### 4 haze requirements to be determined and implemented at 

### 5 the state level. The Arizona Department of 18:37:32 

### 6 Environmental Quality exercised the very discretion 

### 7 contemplated by the Clean Air Act in applying the 

### 8 relevant factors to its BART determinations. 

### 9 However, rather than accepting the Stat e's 

### 10 thoughtful determinations, EPA has proposed to reje ct 18:37:43 

### 11 certain portions of the Arizona State Implementatio n 

### 12 Plan and ignore its own rules in an effort to justi fy 

### 13 its proposal to force the installation of even more 

### 14 controls sooner. 

### 15 PacifiCorp believes that EPA's proposal18:37:57 

### 16 fails to give proper deference to the State of 

### 17 Arizona's regional haze determinations as required by 

### 18 the Clean Air Act and impermissibly substitutes EPA 's 

### 19 judgment for that of the State of Arizona. 

### 20 EPA's proposal fails to properly consider 18:38:14 

### 21 emission reductions already achieved and imposes co sts 

### 22 with no perceptible improvement in visibility. 

### 23 Between 2005 and 2011, PacifiCorp spent 

### 24 approximately 1.4 billion dollars to reduce emissio ns 

### 25 at its generating facilities in order to comply with 18:38:29

### 21

1 the regional haze programs approved by Utah, Wyomin g, 

### 2 and Arizona, including approximately 160 million 

### 3 dollars to install a new scrubber, baghouse, and low 

### 4 NOx burners on Cholla Unit 4 in 2008. 

### 5 However, the EPA has proposed to requir e 18:38:44 

### 6 additional controls on PacifiCorp's Cholla Unit 4, 

### 7 justifying its position in part by analyzing Cholla 

### 8 Unit 4 as if the controls installed in 2008 did not 

### 9 exist and the associated emissions reductions never 

### 10 occurred, resulting in understated costs per ton of18:38:58 

### 11 emissions removed and overstated benefits from the 

### 12 installation of SCR to achieve a visibility goal 

### 13 established for the year 2064. 

### 14 Using EPA's outdated modeling used to 

### 15 predict the visibility impacts, the benefits associ ated 18:39:12 

### 16 with adding SCR to all three BART-eligible units atthe 

### 17 Cholla plant is predicted to be an imperceptible 0. 65 

### 18 deciviews on a limited numbers of days per year. When 

### 19 the updated, more accurate models are used, the 

### 20 visibility improvement is predicted to be 0.04 18:39:31 

### 21 deciviews. 

### 22 Requiring PacifiCorp to spend 

### 23 approximately 125 to 150 million dollars to installSCR 

### 24 on Cholla 4 prior to 2018, with increases in the annual 

### 25 operating expenditures by approximately two to four18:39:42

### 22

1 million in order to obtain the imperceptible visibi lity 

### 2 improvements that have been modeled by EPA is an 

### 3 unnecessary financial burden on all PacifiCorp 

### 4 customers, with no visibility improvement. 

### 5 In conclusion, PacifiCorp urges EPA to 18:39:56 

### 6 adopt the carefully developed Arizona Regional HazeSIP 

### 7 in its totality and withdraw its proposal. Thank you 

### 8 very much. 

### 9 THE HEARING OFFICER: The next batch of 

### 10 speakers can come up. Representative Brenda Barton . 18:40:20 

### 11 Supervisor J.R. DeSpain, Gary Pierce, chairman of the 

### 12 Arizona Corporation Commission. Allen Bushman, and 

### 13 Andy Bessler. 

### 14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Barton, you c an 

### 15 come up. 18:41:05 

### 16 MS. BARTON: Representative Brenda Bart on, 

### 17 b-a-r-t-o-n. I'm currently representing Legislative 

### 18 District 5, which is where two of the power plants are 

### 19 located. I am on the Energy and Natural Resources 

### 20 Committee. 18:41:31 

### 21 The Arizona House of Representatives 

### 22 respectfully requests cooperation and coordination with 

### 23 the Environment Protection Agency. Arizona has made 

### 24 great strides to work with the EPA for several year s, 

### 25 especially in the area where our air quality is 18:41:52

### 23

1 concerned. 

### 2 It is unfortunate that a lawsuit filed by 

### 3 several environmental organizations against the EPAfor 

### 4 not more expeditiously addressing regional haze is 

### 5 jeopardizing our efforts of working together as 18:42:10 

### 6 intended in the Clean Air Act. 

### 7 The Clean Air Act definitely states tha t 

### 8 EPA shall encourage coordination and cooperation by 

### 9 state and local governments, promote reasonable sta te 

### 10 and local government actions, and that air pollutio n 18:42:26 

### 11 control and prevention is the primary responsibilit y of 

### 12 the state and local government as listed in 101 and 

### 13 102. 

### 14 However, Arizona has not found a mannerin 

### 15 which the EPA has stated in regards to the regional18:42:41 

### 16 haze lawsuit, settlement, and proposed rule making to 

### 17 be encouraging or reasonable. 

### 18 The EPA's immediate imposition of the 

### 19 proposed Federal Implementation Plan without providing 

### 20 the State with the opportunity to understand and 18:43:03 

### 21 correct any perceived deficiencies in the State plan is 

### 22 contrary to the Clean Air Act. 

### 23 It is also troubling that the EPA is no t 

### 24 providing ample opportunity for proper analysis and 

### 25 comment on the proposed Federal Implementation Plan . 18:43:23

### 24

1 Clearly States are soon to understand and 

### 2 -- understand the balances and the benefits associa ted 

### 3 with these plans, and are in the best position to work 

### 4 cohesively and productively with the EPA in address ing 

### 5 the regional haze issues and taking into considerat ion 18:43:42 

### 6 our local environment, our jobs, and our economies that 

### 7 these types of regulations put in jeopardy. 

### 8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. 

### 9 Supervisor DeSpain? 

### 10 MR. DE SPAIN: Thank you. For the reco rd, 18:44:04 

### 11 I'm J.R. DeSpain, Chairman of the Navajo County Boa rd 

### 12 of Supervisors. First of all, let me thank everyon e 

### 13 who's here at this meeting tonight. Thank you for 

### 14 bringing this meeting to Holbrook. There's thousan ds 

### 15 of letters out there. Please read them and read the 18:44:21 

### 16 concerns of these citizens and the truthfulness of 

### 17 what's really happening in Navajo and Apache County . 

### 18 I appreciate the efforts of the industr y 

### 19 to bring the details to us at the Navajo County so that 

### 20 we can understand the real issues. The Clean Air Act 18:44:40 

### 21 is codified representative bargaining. Definitely 

### 22 states that the EPA shall encourage cooperative eff orts 

### 23 by state and local government, promote reasonable s tate 

### 24 and local government actions, and that air pollutio n 

### 25 quality and prevention is the primary responsibilit y of 18:45:04

### 25

1 the state and local governments. 

### 2 We all know that perception is reality. 

### 3 And in this case, whether it's intended or not, EPAhas 

### 4 forgot that the perception is part of it. They've 

### 5 forgotten the concerns of the communities and there18:45:26 

### 6 must be an agenda of the EPA against coal-powered 

### 7 plants. Whether or not this is the case, our community 

### 8 would be seriously damaged, our jobs would be 

### 9 threatened, our homes would be threatened. Please 

### 10 allow the power plants to continue to operate and s erve 18:45:45 

### 11 the public interest. 

### 12 I'm asking you two things on behalf of 

### 13 Navajo County. I'm asking EPA to take action basedon 

### 14 scientific and public image; provide Arizona Department 

### 15 of Environmental Quality the opportunity to collabo rate 18:46:05 

### 16 with EPA; revise the State Implementation Plan and 

### 17 commit that that would modify the federal plan and 

### 18 would appear to be the true intent of the Clean Air 

### 19 Act. Extend the deadlines on comments for those who 

### 20 wish to speak; allow the necessary implementation and 18:46:26 

### 21 analysis and review of the technical nature of this 

### 22 proposal. Thank you. 

### 23 MR. PIERCE: My name is Gary Pierce. 

### 24 G-a-r-y. P-i-e-r-c-e. I'm chairman of the Arizona 

### 25 Corporation Commission which regulates Arizona inve stor 18:46:53

### 26

1 owned cooperative utilities and sets the rates paidby 

### 2 their customers. 

### 3 On July 23, 2012, I sent a letter along 

### 4 with two other commissioners in opposition of the 

### 5 Federal Implementation Plan. 18:47:09 

### 6 On July 31, 2012, I also spoke in Arizo na 

### 7 to the FIP proposal at EPA's public comment in Phoe nix, 

### 8 and I'll see you tomorrow in Benson. 

### 9 In my role as commissioner, I strive to 

### 10 keep utility rates to the companies and cooperative s 18:47:24 

### 11 that I regulate as stable and as low as reasonably 

### 12 possible for the benefit of Arizona citizens and 

### 13 businesses. 

### 14 I know that economic development in 

### 15 Arizona greatly depends upon our ability to provide18:47:38 

### 16 safe, reliable and economic energy to millions of 

### 17 customers. For this reason I am greatly concerned 

### 18 about the EPA's proposed FIP. 

### 19 If the adopted EPA -- if adopted, EPA's FIP 

### 20 would cost Arizona's rate payers greatly. Arizona 18:47:51 

### 21 Public Service Company which operates the Cholla pl ant 

### 22 that has already spent 324 million dollars to improve 

### 23 visibility, and the proposed FIP would require an 

### 24 additional 311 million dollars. 

### 25 Salt River Project is in the process of18:48:05

### 27

1 spending five hundred million at its Coronado facil ity 

### 2 to reduce emissions. Under the FIP, they would be 

### 3 required to spend another 110 million. 

### 4 AEPCO which provides most of the 

### 5 electricity to supply customers of five electric 18:48:20 

### 6 cooperatives in Arizona would have to invest an 

### 7 additional 218 million under the EPA's FIP. 

### 8 To place this in perspective, AEPCO 

### 9 recently filed a rate case, and AEPCO currently rep orts 

### 10 to having a total of 232 million in net utility 18:48:37 

### 11 plant-in-service. In other words, EPA's FIP would 

### 12 require AEPCO to double its net plant-in-service. 

### 13 The magnitude of the EPA's FIP, it ruin s 

### 14 the viability of the three coal plants in question. 

### 15 Jobs are at stake. This region is already sufferin g 18:48:53 

### 16 with the announced closure of the paper plant in 

### 17 Snowflake. 

### 18 Now that I've addressed the cost of EPA 's 

### 19 FIP, let me address its benefit. Of course you canall 

### 20 recognize and appreciate that the environmental 18:49:04 

### 21 benefits of clean air are certainly worthy of expen se. 

### 22 Sometimes significant expense. However, in this ca se, 

### 23 EPA's FIP does not even come close to surviving a good 

### 24 faith cost benefit analysis. 

### 25 First, we should recognize that the 18:49:18

### 28

1 regional haze rule and the FIP prepared by EPA doesnot 

### 2 protect human health, only human vistas. 

### 3 Second, the incremental improvement of 

### 4 EPA's FIP over Arizona's SIP would be less than one 

### 5 deciview. In other words, there will be no visible18:49:37 

### 6 improvement. Even if we accept EPA's cumulative 

### 7 deciview total, which we believe is flawed, EPA's F IP 

### 8 would provide negligible benefit to human visibilit y. 

### 9 In sum, EPA's FIP proposal would impose 

### 10 significant costs upon Arizona utilities, necessari ly 18:49:55 

### 11 cause electric rates in Arizona to increase, and re sult 

### 12 in no perceptible improvement over Arizona's SIP 

### 13 proposal. 

### 14 I'm also concerned about EPA's public 

### 15 process for the proposed FIP. I included those in my 18:50:08 

### 16 written statement that I submitted on July 31. In 

### 17 light of the time, I will not restate them here. 

### 18 I simply urge the EPA to withdraw the F IP 

### 19 of the three plants in question and work with ADEQ to 

### 20 remedy deficiencies in the FIP it has proposed. Thank 18:50:30 

### 21 you. 

### 22 MR. BUSHMAN: Good evening. My name is 

### 23 Allen Bushman. That's Allen spelled with two L's and 

### 24 an E. Bushman just like it sounds. I'm the produc tion 

### 25 manager at Arizona Public Service Cholla power plan t. 18:50:47

### 29

1 Cholla is one of the plants impacted by your July 2 nd 

### 2 announcement proposing a rule for regional haze in 

### 3 Arizona. 

### 4 A little background on myself. I start ed 

### 5 working for APS in May of 1976 as a temporary emplo yee. 18:51:01 

### 6 In November of that same year, I was hired on as a 

### 7 full-time employee. Except for an eight-month peri od 

### 8 when I worked at the company's corporate headquarte rs, 

### 9 I worked my entire career at the Cholla power plant . I 

### 10 also have lived all but the eight months of my 54 years 18:51:20 

### 11 in Joseph City. In addition to my employment at 

### 12 Cholla, I own and operate a small ranch that my gre at 

### 13 grandfather started in 1876. My entire family, whi ch 

### 14 includes Terry, my wife of 37 years, my five childr en 

### 15 and ten grandchildren, nine who have live in Joseph18:51:37 

### 16 City, plus two more grandchildren who are on the wa y 

### 17 have benefited from my job at Cholla, and at times 

### 18 depended on it. 

### 19 And my family is not the only one. The 

### 20 local community in this area also depend on the job s 18:51:49 

### 21 and support that we receive from this plant and its 

### 22 employers. 

### 23 Last year alone, more than 260 of our 

### 24 employees contributed over 100 thousand dollars to the 

### 25 United Way charity. 18:52:04

### 30

1 Implementing the proposed rules will fo rce 

### 2 my plant to install SCR for NOx control. Installin g 

### 3 SCR will cost my company 370 million dollars. Thatis 

### 4 370 million dollars in addition to the 324 million 

### 5 dollars APS already spent on pollution controls in 18:52:25 

### 6 support of the Arizona SIP. Included in that 324 

### 7 million dollars is the 18 million dollars for 

### 8 installing low NOx burners and low fire air control . 

### 9 That 370 million dollars also is in addition to the129 

### 10 million dollars APS plans to spend on the Unit 2 18:52:44 

### 11 scrubber upgrade and baghouse installation in suppo rt 

### 12 of the SIP. 

### 13 This rule threatens the long-term 

### 14 viability of units at my plant. 

### 15 Regional haze is supposed to be about 18:52:55 

### 16 reasonable progress towards visibility improvement 

### 17 through 2064. Yet you are driving my plant to be o n 

### 18 best visibility technology in this planning cycle. 

### 19 Doing so could ultimately lead the units to close and 

### 20 the loss of jobs. The proposed rule's potential impact 18:53:11 

### 21 on the local economy, my coworkers, local union wor kers 

### 22 who support us during our overhauls, and the busine sses 

### 23 who rely on us who provide their services and mater ials 

### 24 will be significant. 

### 25 How can you justify in these hard economic 18:53:28

### 31

1 times jeopardizing jobs and costing our rate payers 

### 2 more money for this proposed action that has no val ue 

### 3 detectable to the human eye? 

### 4 I'm here today to express as both a wor ker 

### 5 at the plant and a rate player my extreme 18:53:43 

### 6 disappointment in the EPA's proposed FIP plan. 

### 7 Your plan mandating the addition of expensive catal ytic 

### 8 reduction technology after APS already installed low 

### 9 NOx burners and supported low fire air control. Wedid 

### 10 this voluntarily in support of the Arizona State 18:54:01 

### 11 Implementation Plan determination, and we have doneour 

### 12 best to operate the units below the plant's permitt ed 

### 13 level. 

### 14 In addition, the FIP determination of the 

### 15 added low NOx burners and low fire air control werenot 18:54:12 

### 16 rejected because of the use of SCR technology to re duce 

### 17 NOx as BART. They rejected SCR because of its 

### 18 unreasonable high costs coupled with the lack of 

### 19 visibility improvement that would result from its u se. 

### 20 Living in the southwest my entire life, I 18:54:28 

### 21 appreciate the beauty of our nearby national parks 

### 22 including the Grand Canyon and the need to protect 

### 23 them. I do not however, understand the need for you to 

### 24 dictate a Federal Implementation Plan requiring SCR 's 

### 25 which those SCR's have no perceptible difference an d 18:54:48

### 32

1 will potentially jeopardize one or more units in my 

### 2 plant and cost people in my community and the 

### 3 surrounding community their jobs. Thank you. 

### 4 MR. BESSLER: Thank you. My name is An dy 

### 5 Bessler. I'm a representative of the Sierra Club. The 18:55:15 

### 6 Sierra Club will be joining other conservation groups 

### 7 in submitting comments to EPA regarding our supportto 

### 8 clean up the dirty coal plants discussed tonight. It's 

### 9 against the law to pollute natural parks, and it ha s 

### 10 been since 1977. The Federal Clean Air Act of 1977 18:55:34 

### 11 says that, quote, "Congress hereby declares as a 

### 12 national goal the prevention of any future and the 

### 13 remedying of any existing impairment of visibility in 

### 14 mandatory Class I federal areas which impairment 

### 15 results from manmade air pollution." That's clear, but 18:55:54 

### 16 the air around these areas are not. 

### 17 These are places we all know, Grand Can yon 

### 18 and Petrified Forest, for example. There are a doz en 

### 19 such places in Arizona, and another five in New Mex ico 

### 20 and Colorado areas, which are in air range of these18:56:11 

### 21 coal-burning power plants. In fact, each of these 

### 22 plants is as close as 40 miles to at least one nati onal 

### 23 park. 

### 24 But as Mr. Pierce indicated, I disagree 

### 25 this is not just an issue of regional haze. This i s a 18:56:27

### 33

1 national issue and will save lives. Air pollution you 

### 2 can see is the stuff you breathe. These three plan ts 

### 3 put out a million pounds of toxins every year. The y 

### 4 emit 23 thousand tons of sulfur dioxide and 24 thou sand 

### 5 tons of NOx annually. 18:56:45 

### 6 That leads to more problems, hospital and 

### 7 doctor visits, heart attacks and human deaths. 

### 8 According to the Clean Air Task Force, these three 

### 9 plants collectively cause nearly 41 deaths, 62 hear t 

### 10 attacks, 747 asthma attacks, 30 hospital admissions , 30 18:57:04 

### 11 emergency room visits, and 26 cases of chronic 

### 12 bronchitis, causing Arizonans almost 314 million 

### 13 dollars in health expenses every year. 

### 14 EPA's actions will help improve the hea lth 

### 15 of all in Arizona. According to Doctor Barbara War ren 18:57:22 

### 16 with Physicians for Social Responsibility, quote, " Any 

### 17 step we take to reduce emissions of coal plants wil l 

### 18 have an immediate and beneficial benefit to the hea lth 

### 19 of families." 

### 20 What EPA is proposing should help older18:57:37 

### 21 children from having attacks and help adults who su ffer 

### 22 chronic lung disease and heart disease. Our healthis 

### 23 far too important to have second-grade pollution 

### 24 controls at these toxic coal plants. The Clean AirAct 

### 25 requires that the best available pollution control be 18:57:53

### 34

1 installed, not cheaper, secondary stuff that won't do 

### 2 the job nearly as well. 

### 3 Thanks to the EPA for insisting on 

### 4 cleaning up the air for all Arizona when our own St ate 

### 5 department won't do that. I would urge the people to 18:58:10 

### 6 consider, if you have people with asthma, would you 

### 7 want them to have toxic plant emissions? Thank you . 

### 8 THE HEARING OFFICER: I would like to 

### 9 remind everybody that we're here to listen to everyone 

### 10 and want to provide everyone an equal amount of time. 18:59:11 

### 11 Please do not distract or make loud noises while other 

### 12 speakers are speaking. 

### 13 The following five speakers please come 

### 14 up. Kathy Hemenway. Tank Peterson. Senator Sylvi a 

### 15 Allen with District Five. Vincent Yazzie and Debbi e 18:59:38 

### 16 Tuckfield. 

### 17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Kathy Hemenway. 

### 18 MS. HEMENWAY: My name is Kathy Hemenwa y, 

### 19 K-a-t-h-y, H-e-m-e-n-w-a-y. I would like to thank 

### 20 representatives of the U.S. EPA, Arizona Departmentof 19:00:30 

### 21 Conservation Associates, and Navajo County for talk ing 

### 22 with me about this issue. I would also like to thank 

### 23 Ed Fox and others from EPA for speaking at public 

### 24 meetings last year regarding environment issues and 

### 25 plans at Cholla power plant. 19:00:45

### 35

1 To succeed at solving our problems, we 

### 2 need to work together. As people have said tonight 

### 3 already, this proposal was not developed with withi n 

### 4 the State/Federal collaborative model specified in the 

### 5 Federal Clean Air Act and the Regional Haze Rule. 19:01:02 

### 6 I understand that because of all of the 

### 7 lawsuits against the EPA that were filed a year agoand 

### 8 because of judicial decisions associated with those 

### 9 lawsuits, the EPA was forbidden from working with 

### 10 Arizona. 19:01:15 

### 11 They were also forbidden from working w ith 

### 12 the dozens of other states affected by similar 

### 13 lawsuits. The EPA and the State of Arizona should b e 

### 14 allowed to go back to the drawing board. Thank you . 

### 15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Tank Peterson. 19:01:43 

### 16 MR. PETERSON: It's Merlin Tank Peterso n. 

### 17 Most people don't know who Merlin is. That's why the 

### 18 Tank is in there. I sit on the board of directors for 

### 19 Navapache District Coop. We cover, my district is 

### 20 St. Johns, Vernon, and Concho. 19:02:03 

### 21 Okay. A lot of people that work in the 

### 22 plant at St. Johns come from St. Johns. They're inmy 

### 23 district. They're covered by it. And also I've go t 35 

### 24 years boilermaking experience building these power 

### 25 plants that you guys want to shut down. My first j ob 19:02:20

### 36

1 as an apprentice was in St. Johns, and probably 20, 25 

### 2 percent of my experience and income came from Choll a. 

### 3 And in the years that when I started asan 

### 4 apprentice in '77 until I retired last year, the 

### 5 difference in the way we build the power plants to meet 19:02:36 

### 6 your standards has changed immensely. 

### 7 And according to your website, which I 

### 8 looked at last night on the haze rules, you look atthe 

### 9 California, Washington, and Oregon coast, 25 to 30

-- 

### 10 25 to 45 percent of the haze there is brought on by19:02:58 

### 11 coal-fired power plants. Well, there are no coal-f ired 

### 12 power plants there. When I was in China, they didn 't 

### 13 put any EPA stuff, any scrubbers, oh, and whatever. 

### 14 And according to your website, in three days time, the 

### 15 smog from Asia hits the west coast. 19:03:19 

### 16 When you get to the Grand Canyon, 

### 17 Petrified Forest, there's very, very, very little 

### 18 difference between the haze there caused by coal-fi red 

### 19 power plants and the ones on the west coast. 

### 20 What you're doing now is taking jobs, 19:03:34 

### 21 money, and raising the rates for my customers, my c oop 

### 22 members, not customers. They own the company. We buy 

### 23 our electricity from coal-fired power plants. 

### 24 Again, we're here to make a living, keep 

### 25 our families healthy. And even though this Sierra 19:03:55

### 37

1 Club, what he's had to say, we've gone, according t o 

### 2 your website, we've gone 85 to 90 percent cleaner than 

### 3 we were in 1977, including this region here. Thankyou 

### 4 for the time to speak. 

### 5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Sylvia Allen. 19:04:17 

### 6 MS. ALLEN: Good evening. I'm Senator 

### 7 Sylvia Allen. I live in Snowflake, and this is my 

### 8 district. And just before I get started with my 

### 9 remarks, I Ms. Ed something tonight, because in rur al 

### 10 Arizona people still pray and pledge when we start 19:04:33 

### 11 meetings. 

### 12 Please don't count that against my time . 

### 13 What EPA is proposing, it's outrageous. It's 

### 14 absolutely outrageous. First the EPA plan threaten s 

### 15 the viability of our power plants which means that it 19:05:06 

### 16 threatens the viability, economic viability of our 

### 17 families. 

### 18 The utilities that own these plants have 

### 19 already spent hundreds of millions of dollars to 

### 20 install new scrubbers, baghouses, and low NOx burne rs. 19:05:19 

### 21 Requiring the utilities to spend hundreds of millio ns 

### 22 more to comply with new NOx controls may force the 

### 23 utility to shut down one or more units. And, sirs, we 

### 24 are already at capacity in our plants. 

### 25 This will lead to significant loss of j obs 19:05:34

### 38

1 and reduction in the products and services that support 

### 2 the plant, all of which would devastate the economyof 

### 3 Navajo County. 

### 4 And we cannot lose one more job in our 

### 5 county. We've just received the sad news that our 19:05:47 

### 6 paper mill is shutting down. 

### 7 Second, if the EPA plan is implemented, 

### 8 the Arizona utilities will have to pay as much as o ne 

### 9 billion dollars to comply. Those costs will be pas sed 

### 10 on to Arizona consumers in the form of higher 19:06:02 

### 11 electricity costs. Is that really a good idea? 

### 12 It amazes me that you think it's a good 

### 13 idea to take one billion out of the wallets of Ariz ona 

### 14 working families at the very moment that our State is 

### 15 trying to recover from a recession. 19:06:17 

### 16 EPA threatens our health, safety, and 

### 17 economic ability to provide for the food and shelte r of 

### 18 our families. 

### 19 Third, EPA's plan does nothing to improve 

### 20 visibility. Absolutely nothing. May I state, thishas 19:06:30 

### 21 nothing to do with health. That's a 20-year-old 

### 22 propaganda that we listened to previously. This ha s 

### 23 nothing to do with health. It has to do with 

### 24 visibility. You can't see it, so it's not going to 

### 25 help at all. 19:06:42

### 39

1 Let's summarize. EPA's plan forces 

### 2 Arizona utilities to purchase and install incredibl y 

### 3 expensive equipment that makes no change or differe nce 

### 4 in visibility, threatens the survival of three smal l 

### 5 Arizona communities whose economies depend on these19:06:57 

### 6 power plants for hundreds of jobs, and threatens the 

### 7 economy of the entire State by increasing the cost of 

### 8 electricity by as much as a billion dollars. All f or 

### 9 what? None of this makes sense. Unless it's to 

### 10 further the Obama's administration radical 19:07:15 

### 11 environmental agenda, which includes eliminating co al 

### 12 as the source of cheap electric power, then it star ts 

### 13 to make sense. 

### 14 Well, EPA, I'm sorry to tell you, you a re 

### 15 losing the respect of the American people, because now 19:07:35 

### 16 you have become political bullies. You are our pub lic 

### 17 servants; not our masters. It's time for the state s -- 

### 18 we are in tremendous amount of debt nationally. We 've 

### 19 got to minimize the Federal government. It's time for 

### 20 the states to take back control of our air, water, and 19:07:54 

### 21 land. 

### 22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Vincent Yazzie. 

### 23 MR. YAZZIE: That's Vincent Yazzie. 

### 24 V-i-n-c-e-n-t. Y-a-z-z-i-e. When microdust is the 

### 25 white cloud, smaller it tends to implant itself in the 19:08:33

### 40

1 lungs. Black dust is large, can be expelled from the 

### 2 lungs. Nitrogen dioxide there in terms of nitric a cid 

### 3 inhaled into the lungs causes damage, cumulative, 2 0 to 

### 4 30-year range. One expected toll of that is Tom Ta ylor 

### 5 passed away recently, died of cancer, emphysema. 19:08:54 

### 6 Emphysema damaged his heart. We will be in a nursi ng 

### 7 home 20 or 30 years from now trying to get oxygen 

### 8 because of lung damage. 

### 9 There are future wells located here and 

### 10 there. We have (Inaudible) three feet above the 19:09:13 

### 11 geometric surface. APS has drained those, emptied 

### 12 those out. APS is blaming the drought. Our ash po nds 

### 13 on the mill, they're on-line, monitored but there's 

### 14 aluminum stands, so there's some question as to whe ther 

### 15 those chemicals are headed into your water supply. 19:09:38 

### 16 Selective catalytic reduction. The NO-2 level's to99 

### 17 percent NO-2, and low NOx gets rid of 90 percent. 

### 18 Lot of power plants back east, they have 

### 19 pretty much have been scrapped. They've been rebui lt. 

### 20 So it's like a 60's Mustang and buying the new Must ang 19:10:05 

### 21 with all the emission control. So, in fact, it wou ld 

### 22 bring more jobs to the area. Okay. 

### 23 The GDP for Phoenix metro and Tucson is 

### 24 two hundred billions dollars a year. So if we sentour 

### 25 power down there, it doesn't make a lot of money. APS 19:10:24

### 41

1 two years ago made one billion dollars. They took in a 

### 2 hundred million of that is -- that went to 

### 3 shareholders. They're probably out spending plentyon 

### 4 all that money. They record a two hundred million net. 

### 5 No one's making a better deal. You're 19:10:49 

### 6 taking all the health problems, and they're taking all 

### 7 the money. So I suggest you ask for a brand new power 

### 8 plant to bring more jobs to the area. The people b ack 

### 9 east they are on-line. 

### 10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Debby Tuckfield. 19:11:21 

### 11 MS. TUCKFIELD: My name is Debbie, and 

### 12 it's D-e-b-b-i-e. I'm here tonight in hopes that the 

### 13 information does not fall on deaf ears. 

### 14 In recent years the citizens of the 

### 15 community of the White Mountains and Little Colorado 19:11:38 

### 16 River Plateau have been under attack. This attack 

### 17 started long ago with the issue of the habitat for the 

### 18 spotted owl versus logging. Small communities in White 

### 19 Mountains suffered both personally and economically . 

### 20 We have been forced to watch our pristine forest 19:11:54 

### 21 grounds become overgrown. The result of this great 

### 22 stand to preserve nature was brought forth in the 

### 23 culmination of the Rodeo Chedeski fire in June of 2 002, 

### 24 soon followed by a natural disaster known as the Wa llow 

### 25 fire. 19:12:12

### 42

1 Day after day I listened to reports of the 

### 2 smoke that was being carried to the valley and thei r 

### 3 air quality warnings. Do the citizens of the valle y 

### 4 area look at the brown cloud they live in on a dail y 

### 5 basis contributed to by the use of automobiles? Al l 19:12:31 

### 6 the while we watched the forests and homes be destr oyed 

### 7 and the entire White Mountain area and Little Color ado 

### 8 River valley or plateau. We are now being blamed f or 

### 9 the haze that has infiltrated the Grand Canyon Nati onal 

### 10 Park. 19:12:47 

### 11 Our nature industry and job providers a re 

### 12 now being threatened with closure. They are accuse d of 

### 13 not doing enough to comply with what the FIP and the 

### 14 EPA have requested. The closure of coal-burning power 

### 15 plants will end up killing the White Mountains and the 19:13:04 

### 16 Little Colorado River plateau. One would think the 

### 17 environmentalists have a plan of destruction of rur al 

### 18 Arizona. 

### 19 I have looked at several studies. St. 

### 20 Johns airport weather station reported for a 12-mon th 19:13:21 

### 21 period the prevailing winds blew south and southeas t. 

### 22 On my map, the Grand Canyon appeared to be northwes t of 

### 23 the SRP power plant in St. Johns. The Winslow airp ort 

### 24 weather station which is in close vicinity to the 

### 25 Cholla power plant reported for a 12-month period that 19:13:41

### 43

1 the prevailing winds were blowing south and southea st 

### 2 and occasionally southwest. Again, the Grand Canyo n 

### 3 appears to be located in the northwest of the Choll a 

### 4 power plant. I think common logic may tell you tha t 

### 5 there may be another cause for haze in the Grand 19:14:00 

### 6 Canyon. 

### 7 We live in a rural area. We choose to 

### 8 live here. We have family here. And I'm speaking as a 

### 9 native of Arizona, a third generation native Arizon an. 

### 10 Our fourth and fifth generations are now being forc ed 19:14:14 

### 11 to move because of hundreds of jobs lost due to the 

### 12 closure of the Catalyst Paper Mill and the proposed 

### 13 closure of these three power plants in the name of the 

### 14 environment. 

### 15 We want to protect the environment for our 19:14:27 

### 16 future generations. That's always been in our 

### 17 heritage. But there has to be a balance between human 

### 18 destruction and environmental destruction. In my 

### 19 opinion, northern Arizona is being unfairly targete d by 

### 20 EPA and the environmentalists that do not care abou t 19:14:45 

### 21 the human destruction that they are creating. 

### 22 It's also my opinion that the large 

### 23 metropolitan areas don't have to conform to the str ong 

### 24 environmental laws that we have been made to follow . 

### 25 One only has to drive into the large cities of Ariz ona 19:14:59

### 44

1 and look at the dark brown haze that envelops the c ity 

### 2 and know they are not in compliance of any law. No t to 

### 3 mention the use of the water that is being used by 

### 4 these cities, precious water that they have taken f rom 

### 5 us to accommodate larger cities. But that will be a 19:15:20 

### 6 fight at a later date. 

### 7 I do hope you take to heart what you have 

### 8 heard here today and tonight and they are pleas of 

### 9 desperation. Thank you for your time, and I apprec iate 

### 10 it. 19:15:48 

### 11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Will the next five 

### 12 speakers please come up. Bill Faurot, Rick Taylor, 

### 13 Karen MacKean. Stephen Etsitty and John Lee. 

### 14 THE HEARING OFFICER: I hear that John Lee 

### 15 is gone, so I'll call Percy -- John Lee is here. 19:16:50 

### 16 Bill Faurot, you can come up when you'r e 

### 17 ready. 

### 18 MR. FAUROT: My name is Bill Faurot, 

### 19 f-a-u-r-o-t. My remarks are unprepared. You must 

### 20 understand the skepticism which the people who liveup 19:17:11 

### 21 here have of another federal agency telling us how to 

### 22 live our lives. 

### 23 We have lost, since 2002, almost one 

### 24 million acres due to the environmentalists who were 

### 25 telling us how the federal forests should be manage d. 19:17:31

### 45

1 Now there is no habitat for the spotted owl, but we 

### 2 have created an enormous pasture for elk. Thank you 

### 3 for your time. 

### 4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Rick Taylor. 

### 5 MR. TAYLOR: Rick Taylor. My wife and I 19:18:05 

### 6 have lived here -- 

### 7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Can you get close r 

### 8 to the mic, please? 

### 9 MR. TAYLOR: My wife and I have lived here 

### 10 for 35 years. As residents of northern Arizona, we 're 19:18:15 

### 11 deeply concerned about the potential effect of your 

### 12 rule requiring the Apache power plant and Coronado 

### 13 power plant, and Cholla to achieve .05 pounds per 

### 14 million B.T.U. NOx. Some of these plants are prese ntly 

### 15 running about .2 pounds after they've made hundredsof 19:18:36 

### 16 millions of dollars of NOx and SIP removal. We are 

### 17 told that the NOx removal requirement you are propo sing 

### 18 to these plants is likely to have the effect of for cing 

### 19 their closure which would have a devastating effecton 

### 20 northern Arizona's economy which has already suffer ed 19:18:54 

### 21 because of the closure of the paper mill in Snowfla ke. 

### 22 The closure of the paper mill will cost the region more 

### 23 than three hundred jobs directly and a good deal mo re 

### 24 indirectly. 

### 25 The imposition of the .05 pounds could 19:19:08

### 46

1 have a compound effect, throwing the region in an 

### 2 economic crisis of great proportions. 

### 3 We are told that the purpose of the .05 

### 4 NOx requirement is to reduce regional haze, and the reby 

### 5 improve visibility. We're also told that the 19:19:27 

### 6 difference between the NOx emissions now and the .0 5 

### 7 will not be visible to us or to those who visit the 

### 8 Grand Canyon, the Petrified Forest or other nationa l 

### 9 parks in Arizona. 

### 10 This deepens the tragedy of the impact. 19:19:45 

### 11 Families, businesses, societies that have lived her e 

### 12 for generations will be harmed irreparably or lost. 

### 13 We believe this is neither reasonable n or 

### 14 fair nor just. We believe that our future of northern 

### 15 Arizona and its residents is at stake with the 19:20:04 

### 16 implementation of your proposal. 

### 17 We therefore urge you to reconsider you r 

### 18 proposal to require these plants to achieve .05 pounds 

### 19 per million BTU NOx. We ask that you find a soluti on 

### 20 that does not harm the people of northern Arizona; that 19:20:23 

### 21 will enable them to pursue the lives that they are 

### 22 entitled to as are all Americans. 

### 23 We ask that you give full considerationof 

### 24 the potentially tragic consequences that implementa tion 

### 25 of this rule will cause, especially and specificall y 19:20:37

### 47

1 when the terms of that are extremely damaging to the 

### 2 regional economies. 

### 3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. 

### 4 MS. MACKEAN: Karen MacKean, 

### 5 m-a-c-k-e-a-n. I'm chairman of the Navajo County 19:21:03 

### 6 Republican committee, but I'm here as a citizen today. 

### 7 As a citizen of Arizona, I object to the 

### 8 EPA interference in Arizona and I object to the 

### 9 representative from the Sierra Club with his 

### 10 irresponsible and bizarre lies trying to scare all the 19:21:22 

### 11 old people and babies. 

### 12 Since 2009 122 coal-fired power plants 

### 13 have been closed by the EPA in the United States of 

### 14 America, putting 20 thousand people out of work. The 

### 15 EPA bureaucrats were paid by the very people, the very 19:21:48 

### 16 people, the taxpayers you intend to put out of workin 

### 17 this economy. How do you even begin to justify the se 

### 18 actions? 

### 19 I request the EPA withdraw its proposal 

### 20 and support the State's comprehensive haze program. 19:22:03 

### 21 Thank you very much. 

### 22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Stephen Etsitty. 

### 23 MR. ETSITTY: Good evening. I'm Stephe n 

### 24 Etsitty. I'm the executive director for the Navajo 

### 25 Nation Environmental Protection Agency. On behalf of 19:22:33

### 48

1 the Navajo Nation, I offer these comments. First, I 

### 2 would like to thank EPA for extending the comment 

### 3 period and affording the local community more 

### 4 opportunity to comment. 

### 5 The way forward and looking at somethin g 19:22:49 

### 6 other than a Federal Implementation Plan for a stat e is 

### 7 possible. After I finish here, I will be travelingto 

### 8 Sante Fe to work with the State of New Mexico who was 

### 9 operating under a stay issued by Administrator Jack son 

### 10 so that the New Mexico State Implementation Plan can 19:23:12 

### 11 get some more consideration. So it's possible. 

### 12 The Nation has great interests in a wide 

### 13 range of air quality actions, clean air actions tha t 

### 14 have been proposed and promulgated over the past 

### 15 several years. The -- in particular, the BART 19:23:37 

### 16 determination. Also, we've got two facilities on the 

### 17 Navajo Nation directly impacted by these BART 

### 18 decisions. And we share the concerns of the State of 

### 19 New Mexico and the State of Arizona in terms of wha t 

### 20 they're trying to achieve with their State 19:23:51 

### 21 Implementation Plans. 

### 22 President Shelly met with Governor Jan 

### 23 Brewer today to articulate those concerns. And we' re 

### 24 working together, Navajo Nation and the State of 

### 25 Arizona, the Navajo Nation and the State of New Mex ico 19:24:06

### 49

1 to make an impact on the decision that EPA is makin g in 

### 2 these BART determinations to afford the states and the 

### 3 interest of the Navajo Nation the opportunity to chart 

### 4 a path forward in terms of improving regional haze. 

### 5 We understand the best is not always ab out 19:24:26 

### 6 choosing SCR's as the most -- as the technology mos t 

### 7 capable of reducing emissions, but it's comprised o f 

### 8 the analysis of the five factors that you're requir ed 

### 9 to consider which includes non-air quality issues l ike 

### 10 the impact to the economy. 19:24:49 

### 11 So we look, also, at some of the other 

### 12 limitations that we realized as we've worked with f olks 

### 13 in EPA and the states and with people in the indust ry, 

### 14 the utilities providers, and the owners of the 

### 15 facilities. 19:25:04 

### 16 One of the things that I'm somewhat 

### 17 perplexed at is that we have one instance where a major 

### 18 power plant in this region was shut down: Mohave 

### 19 Generating Station in 2005. It was a BART eligible 

### 20 facility. Since it's been closed, we have yet to s ee a 19:25:27 

### 21 definitive analysis of the visibility improvements from 

### 22 that removal of those emission sources. 

### 23 So my concern moving forward is that wedo 

### 24 rely on real data and, you know, modeling is what i t 

### 25 is. It doesn't get us all the way there. 19:25:49

### 50

1 I think the other point that I'd like t o 

### 2 make as a person of the Nation, we do have concerns 

### 3 about public health, but we lack the baseline to 

### 4 measure the improvements, and I think we lack that here 

### 5 in northern Arizona, as well. 19:26:02 

### 6 So I would like to -- it's comments tha t 

### 7 we've made in other actions. It's comments that we 

### 8 will continue to make. But we need a real, meaning ful 

### 9 public health baseline in order to chart any public 

### 10 health improvements that are going to be approachedby 19:26:17 

### 11 this type of regulatory decision or any other CleanAir 

### 12 Act regulatory decision. Thank you very much. 

### 13 THE HEARING OFFICER: John Lee. 

### 14 MR. LEE: My name is John Lee. Nobody' s 

### 15 ever asked me how to spell either one of those. I am a 19:26:44 

### 16 Supervisor for District Three in Apache County. La st 

### 17 summer most of my district burned up in the Wallow 

### 18 fire, half a million acres. We're still reeling from 

### 19 the effects of that. And we believe and our ordinances 

### 20 that we passed at the time recognized that we againare 19:27:05 

### 21 the victim of a rogue federal agency. The United 

### 22 States Forest Service with its policies driven by 

### 23 radicalism allowed an overgrowth in that forest to such 

### 24 an extent that many acres had many times the fuel l oad 

### 25 in them the forest service said was acceptable. 19:27:32

### 51

1 Now we've got the EPA. If the Wallow f ire 

### 2 wasn't enough, EPA shows up and imposes emissions 

### 3 regulations prematurely. And I'm a recovering lawyer. 

### 4 I'm going to leave the niceties of the law to thosewho 

### 5 will certainly file lawsuits in this matter. 19:27:53 

### 6 But on the other hand, we have to be 

### 7 focused. We could talk about all of what you're do ing 

### 8 and what you're not doing. We need to understand that 

### 9 this is part of this administration's war on coal and 

### 10 on the energy sources that drive our lives and drive 19:28:08 

### 11 our economy. 

### 12 Let me read you a quote from President 

### 13 Obama. He says if someone wants to builds a coal 

### 14 plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them, 

### 15 because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all 19:28:25 

### 16 the greenhouse gases that's being emitted. 

### 17 Let's not lose focus on what this is. 

### 18 This is a war on coal and American energy, and the EPA 

### 19 is the weapon of choice at this point. 

### 20 We would urge the EPA to back away to the 19:28:44 

### 21 extent that you can back away from the policies of the 

### 22 current administration, allow the states to make these 

### 23 determinations that was originally intended in all of 

### 24 the legislation that I've seen. Thank you. 

### 25 THE HEARING OFFICER: We're going to ta ke 19:29:18

### 52

1 a ten-minute break. And we'll return. 

### 2 (A brief recess was taken at 7:38 p.m.) 

### 3 THE HEARING OFFICER: If everyone could 

### 4 take your seats, we'll begin. 

### 5 The following speakers please come up: 19:40:39 

### 6 Percy Deal. Adella Begaye. Anna M. Frazier. Kevi n 

### 7 Fish and Kent Gibson. 

### 8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Percy Deal, if you 

### 9 will come up when you're ready. 

### 10 MR. DEAL: Good evening. My name is Pe rcy 19:42:08 

### 11 Deal. I'm a former member of the Navajo County Boa rd 

### 12 of Supervisors. I'm also currently serving as the 

### 13 president for the Navajo Nation Chapter which is 

### 14 located on the Black Mesa community. I live on Bla ck 

### 15 Mesa just below the Peabody mine. Not too long ago , as 19:42:33 

### 16 a matter of fact, 20 years ago, I could see the San 

### 17 Francisco peak from where I live, and the peak is 1 50 

### 18 miles away. Today I no longer see that due to the 

### 19 haze. And I invite you to come up and try to see that 

### 20 peak. 19:42:52 

### 21 Arizona mandatory Class I lists several 

### 22 parks. Not on that list are Canyon de Chelly, Nava jo 

### 23 National Monument, Monument Valley that are all loc ated 

### 24 on the Navajo reservation, and also the Keet Seel o n 

### 25 the Navajo and Hopi reservation. 19:43:17

### 53

1 Imagine having six old vehicles parked 

### 2 with the back-end toward your house, and they are 

### 3 running all the time, and they are always -- and 

### 4 they've been running for 40 years. They're all old . 

### 5 They are releasing a lot of emissions and so on. 19:43:36 

### 6 Three of those plants at issue today -- 

### 7 three of those plants are at issue today. The othe r 

### 8 three are on the Navajo reservation. 

### 9 The National Academy of Science a numbe r 

### 10 of years ago did a study. They concluded that some19:43:53 

### 11 areas of the country could be used for national 

### 12 priority, irrespective of resulting permanent 

### 13 environmental damages. Such places are designated as 

### 14 national sacrifice area. Many Indian reservations are 

### 15 located in such areas, like all of the Navajo and Hopi 19:44:20 

### 16 reservations. 

### 17 They had concluded that people's lives in 

### 18 those sacrifice areas, that their well-being can be 

### 19 forfeited so that the rest of the country can enjoy 

### 20 cheap energy. 19:44:36 

### 21 I hope that we in northern Arizona are not 

### 22 headed in that direction. Someone once said we areall 

### 23 in one spaceship called Spaceship Earth. With no o ther 

### 24 option, we must care for this spaceship. Caring fo r 

### 25 northern Arizona will insure tourism business to be19:44:59

### 54

1 very strong and contribute to its strong economy. 

### 2 It provides jobs and taxes. It also 

### 3 provides revenue, jobs, and taxes through the Navaj o 

### 4 reservation. 

### 5 I would like to request EPA conduct a 19:45:17 

### 6 similar EIS on the Navajo reservation and hold hear ing 

### 7 regarding Peabody and the Navajo Generating Station . I 

### 8 also request that EPA do apply their policy for cle aner 

### 9 and healthier environment. 

### 10 I want to also give you a copy of the 19:45:36 

### 11 Arizona Republican article dated in May of this yea r. 

### 12 It has to do with the Navajo Generating Station and 

### 13 also its impacts on the Navajo reservation. Thank you. 

### 14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Adella Begaye. 

### 15 MS. BEGAYE: Good evening. My name is 19:46:12 

### 16 Adella Begaye. I am from a place called Chinle, 

### 17 Arizona. I'm here this morning to speak as a mothe r, a 

### 18 grandmother, and member of the Navajo Nation. And I am 

### 19 speaking for the grassroot people, the people that are 

### 20 living on the land, the land that is being impacted . 19:46:32 

### 21 The Navajo Nation is surrounded by five 

### 22 power plants. And tonight we're talking about regi onal 

### 23 haze. Somehow regional seems to imply that the win d, 

### 24 the air stops at a certain boundary. It does not. We 

### 25 are being surrounded by five power plants. And as Mr. 19:46:57

### 55

1 Deal have said, we are breathing the toxic air ever y 

### 2 day. 

### 3 And as my profession, I'm a professiona l 

### 4 healthcare worker. I've been a registered nurse fo r 40 

### 5 years, close to 40 years. When I was young I used to 19:47:14 

### 6 interpret for people, and in those days I rarely saw 

### 7 any child that came in with asthma. That is a commo n 

### 8 sight today. 

### 9 And as has been said here that it's a 

### 10 fallacy, it's not truth that people are dying from 19:47:35 

### 11 these particulates. These particulates are dangerous. 

### 12 All of these particulates have over 80 hazardous 

### 13 chemicals, and my people are breathing in day in an d 

### 14 day out. 

### 15 Our respiratory rates have increased 19:47:53 

### 16 tremendously. Heart attack, cardiac disease are onthe 

### 17 increase. So these are the things we need to see. 

### 18 Just because we don't have a baseline does not mean 

### 19 that we bury our heads in the sand, that it doesn't 

### 20 happen. 19:48:09 

### 21 It is really sad to see kids fighting f or 

### 22 their breath, turning blue. So these are the thing s 

### 23 that we see from impact the areas. And as it has b een 

### 24 said that the Clean Air Task Force does some studie s, 

### 25 there are 313 thousand people, and over three hundr ed 19:48:36

### 56

1 thousand people have respiratory problems. And Cle an 

### 2 Air Act has been established in -- has been establi shed 

### 3 in the 70's. The EPA also has been established bac k in 

### 4 the 60's. And we as a Navajo Nation has yet to reap 

### 5 the benefits from these revelations that should be 19:49:01 

### 6 there to protect the health of the people. 

### 7 And just because we're in a sacrifice a rea 

### 8 doesn't mean that we're not humans. We are humans just 

### 9 as anybody else is. 

### 10 And I heard speeches today talking abou t 19:49:19 

### 11 how money -- money is good, but health is more 

### 12 important. And who's speaking for the animals and the 

### 13 plants. Who's speaking for the plants on the land. 

### 14 These chemicals burn the plants. These chemicals hurt 

### 15 the animals. Our fish are full of mercury. 19:49:40 

### 16 So these are things we need to see. An d I 

### 17 think the EPA has a policy they put in place which says 

### 18 that it should encourage productive and enjoyable 

### 19 harmony between man and his environment to promote 

### 20 efforts which prevent or eliminate damages to the 19:50:02 

### 21 environmental and biosphere and stimulate the health 

### 22 and welfare of man to enrich the understanding of the 

### 23 ecological system and resources important to the ou r 

### 24 existence. 

### 25 To this day, Navajo Nation has not reap ed 19:50:19

### 57

1 this benefit. We have not enjoyed this. Thank you . 

### 2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Anna Frazier. 

### 3 MS. FRAZIER: Thank you for allowing usto 

### 4 speak this evening. I am from Dilkon, Arizona, whi ch 

### 5 is like about 25 miles south of Winslow, Arizona, j ust 19:50:50 

### 6 on the other side of the boundary line on the Navaj o 

### 7 reservation. I'm speaking on behalf of -- as a 

### 8 supporter of the Federal Implementation Plan to enf orce 

### 9 BART for Cholla power plant as mandated by U.S. EPA . I 

### 10 also represent a whole lot of Navajo tribal memberswho 19:51:30 

### 11 are standing with us to clean our air. 

### 12 And we -- like Adella said, there are f ive 

### 13 coal-fired power plants surrounding the Navajo Nati on. 

### 14 And so the Navajo Nation is situated within the Cla ss I 

### 15 area where from all five power plants we are impact ed 19:52:06 

### 16 by pollution from all sides. 

### 17 And some might say that the wind might be 

### 18 blowing that way, but lately it has been blowing fr om 

### 19 the south into the Dilkon area, because we've been 

### 20 getting a lot of rain there, so that's where it's a ll 19:52:29 

### 21 coming from. So you can't really judge which way the 

### 22 winds is blowing every day. So we get the brunt ofit 

### 23 over there from all sides. 

### 24 So from all this pollution our people a re 

### 25 really having health problems with heart diseases, 19:52:49

### 58

1 asthma, respiratory problems, and cancer. And so we 

### 2 just lost a young man just recently last week from 

### 3 cancer. 

### 4 So there's all kinds of pollution. Might 

### 5 not even be from the power plants. There's also the 19:53:13 

### 6 rain in our area. 

### 7 So these are some things that's going o n 

### 8 in the Navajo Nation. I heard some speeches tonight 

### 9 about economic development, economic concerns regarding 

### 10 jobs. I think what we need is forward thinkers, 19:53:35 

### 11 politicians that can create a different kind of job s, 

### 12 renewable energy, alternative energy. 

### 13 So where are we going to be 30 years fr om 

### 14 now? Are we still going to be wanting power plants ? 

### 15 But we need to change our ways. And I think we're just 19:54:07 

### 16 like Adella said, we just have our heads buried in the 

### 17 sand. We've got to ignore, and ignore the change 

### 18 that's happening to our climate. 

### 19 I encourage U.S. EPA to continue to wor k 

### 20 with us to change the way where the energy comes fr om, 19:54:37 

### 21 because it's not -- we need the help and I apprecia te 

### 22 you being here tonight. Thank you. 

### 23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Kevin Fish. 

### 24 MR. FISH: Kevin Fish, Joseph City. I 

### 25 believe that the EPA has been influenced too much b y 19:55:05

### 59

1 the Sierra Club in their decision making. I had a 

### 2 chance to visit the Grand Canyon lately. I listene d to 

### 3 what they considered is the most -- the biggest cau se 

### 4 of regional haze, and they said it is because of the 

### 5 Los Angeles smog and the prevailing winds. That's what 19:55:36 

### 6 the national park has to say. 

### 7 I would ask you to quit listening to those 

### 8 types of people and listen to the people here to ke ep 

### 9 the jobs and the economics here in northern Arizona . 

### 10 If you want to go after somebody, the city of San 19:56:01 

### 11 Francisco, the headquarters of the regional EPA nee ds 

### 12 to go after the city of Los Angeles, not the peopleof 

### 13 Arizona. 

### 14 In closing, I would like to say that those 

### 15 who believe that the EPA is right and that the Sier ra 19:56:17 

### 16 Club is right, when they leave tonight, do not drive 

### 17 your cars, walk, because that's what it is. And whe n 

### 18 you get home, don't turn your lights on. Thank you . 

### 19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Kent Gibson. 

### 20 MR. GIBSON: Kent Gibson. K-e-n-t, 19:56:49 

### 21 G-i-b-s-o-n. The mid-1990's, I was in attendance a t a 

### 22 conference where then EPA Administrator Sara Dunham 

### 23 said that she would like to see all smoke stack 

### 24 industry in this country gone. When asked how she 

### 25 would support our economy, she told us it would be by 19:57:07

### 60

1 selling our environmental technology. 

### 2 The recent EPA stated that a rule propo sed 

### 3 earlier this month would require additional polluti on 

### 4 controls on three plants in eastern Arizona just to 

### 5 comply with the provisions of the Clean Air Act whe re 19:57:25 

### 6 Congress set a long-term goal of restoring natural 

### 7 visibility conditions in numerous national parks an d 

### 8 wilderness areas throughout the United States. My 

### 9 question is: What is the natural visibility. Some 

### 10 days it's windy. Some days it's dusty. Some days we 19:57:45 

### 11 have smoke. Some days it rains and clears everythi ng 

### 12 up. Which day do we pick to have natural visibilit y? 

### 13 One of the EPA strategies for achieving 

### 14 this goal of natural visibility is the use of retro fit 

### 15 technology in older power plants which were perceived 19:58:04 

### 16 to contribute to visibility requirements in these C lass 

### 17 I areas. 

### 18 On July 23rd, EPA proposed a Federal 

### 19 Implementation Plan that would require selective 

### 20 catalytic reduction in both units at Coronado 19:58:19 

### 21 Generating Station. The proposed emission rate for 

### 22 Unit 1 is the most stringent NOx rate ever proposedby 

### 23 the EPA for a coal plant retrofit project, even though 

### 24 EPA has recently concluded in other states that 

### 25 SCR is not an appropriate BART control, because NOx19:58:41

### 61

1 emissions below .06 are not achievable on a continu ous 

### 2 basis through the retrofit of SCR on a coal-fired unit. 

### 3 This is essentially asking for unachievable numbers 

### 4 using the current technology. 

### 5 I question why EPA would request that we 19:59:01 

### 6 install a technology that has the impossibility of 

### 7 achieving their mandated results. Could it be that 

### 8 they were receiving pressure from nongovernmental 

### 9 groups to rush into this proposal? The posting of the 

### 10 Albuquerque Journal dated August 12, 2012, a Diane 19:59:20 

### 11 Schmidt article entitled EPA Moves on "Stricter 

### 12 Controls for Coal-burning Power Plants in the 

### 13 Southwest." Ms. Schmidt reported this EPA proposal 

### 14 comes in direct response to a lawsuit filed by 

### 15 Earthjustice and Wyoming attorney Reid Zars on beha lf 19:59:40 

### 16 of an impressive array of conservation and communit y 

### 17 health groups after foot-dragging by Arizona and af ter 

### 18 the EPA missed legal deadlines for limiting 

### 19 haze-causing pollution from power plants and factor ies 

### 20 in Arizona. 19:59:57 

### 21 I do not believe that there were has be en 

### 22 any foot-dragging on the part of the ADEQ or the 

### 23 companies in question. I do believe that the ideal 

### 24 ideology voiced by then EPA Administrator Sara Dunham, 

### 25 which she looked forward to the no smoke stack indu stry 20:00:16

### 62

1 has not diminished, and industry continues to meet the 

### 2 unrealistic expectations of this agency. 

### 3 I respectfully ask that you listen to the 

### 4 people who live and work in this region and not to the 

### 5 so-called impressive array of conservation 20:00:35 

### 6 environmental groups seeking to destroy the economi c 

### 7 engines of these communities. 

### 8 I ask you to withdraw the EPA proposed 

### 9 Federal Implementation Plan regarding this state an d 

### 10 work with the State of Arizona to enact the State 20:00:56 

### 11 Implementation Plan that addresses these issues. Thank 

### 12 you. 

### 13 THE HEARING OFFICER: The public hearin g 

### 14 was scheduled to end at 8:00, but I have 25 additio nal 

### 15 speakers. So we are going to expand the public hea ring 20:01:16 

### 16 for at least an additional hour, and, hopefully, if 

### 17 everybody can cooperate and keep their comments bri ef, 

### 18 and if everybody else can help by allowing the spea kers 

### 19 to move as quickly as possible, we should be able t o 

### 20 finish on time. 20:01:34 

### 21 Our next five speakers will be Caleb 

### 22 Johnson. I apologize, I couldn't read it. Major Ke lly 

### 23 Willis, Terry Hill, Eli Blake, and Trevor Baggiore. 

### 24 Caleb, I apologize I don't know how to 

### 25 pronounce your last name. 20:02:36

### 63

1 MR. JOHNSON: My name is Caleb Johnson. 

### 2 I'm a retired army chaplain. I spent years in the 

### 3 military, member of the Hopi tribe. I think that 

### 4 reducing pollution is a good idea. But you have to 

### 5 consider the costs. There's costs to everything. 20:03:13 

### 6 And the military, before we plan an 

### 7 operation, we have to decide the cost of how many 

### 8 people will be killed, how many people will be woun ded, 

### 9 so we have enough (inaudible) to do the operation. 

### 10 So I think you need to consider the cos ts. 20:03:39 

### 11 There's a cost about employment. If you implement all 

### 12 your regulations on these power plants, you need todo 

### 13 a study about the costs of how many jobs will be 

### 14 eliminated. You need to know that. I don't think I've 

### 15 ever seen a study that says how many jobs are goingto 20:04:08 

### 16 be lost when your regulations are implemented to the 

### 17 full extent. So that's something that you need to 

### 18 consider. 

### 19 The other cost is finance. The Hopi tr ibe 

### 20 is more concerned about the power plant at Page, 20:04:26 

### 21 because we supply coal to that plant. So we ask you 

### 22 consider the financial aspect of the cost of what there 

### 23 will be if these regulations are implemented 

### 24 completely. We receive about 11 million dollars a year 

### 25 from the operations of the power plant. And if you r 20:04:51

### 64

1 implementation of your regulations is going to redu ce 

### 2 that amount to the tribe, we would have to stand 

### 3 against the implementation of those regulations. S o 

### 4 these are costs that you need to consider. 

### 5 Like I said, every operation has costs. 20:05:17 

### 6 So I'm just mentioning the two, because I only have 

### 7 three minutes to speak, and that's not a very long 

### 8 time. But I think what I'm saying, this is somethi ng 

### 9 that I would like to raise for you to analyze and get 

### 10 data on how many jobs will be lost, what the financ ial 20:05:38 

### 11 effect it would have to the Hopi tribe. Those thin gs 

### 12 we need to know before we will approve such 

### 13 implementation of these regulations. Thank you. 

### 14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Kelly Willis. 

### 15 MR. WILLIS: Thank you. Kelly Willis. I 20:06:09 

### 16 have sat here tonight and listened intently to the 

### 17 things that were going on, have felt my heart go ou t to 

### 18 those who have possible environmental impacts and a lso 

### 19 to those who may be impacted by the loss of work an d 

### 20 jobs. 20:06:30 

### 21 I do feel very strongly that if we use the 

### 22 same reasoning that we are here tonight to talk about, 

### 23 the removal of our power plant, that the EPA needs to 

### 24 go right down to the Valley of the Sun and move 

### 25 everyone out because of the impact of valley fever. To 20:06:53

### 65

1 me, it's exactly basically the same thing. 

### 2 All over our world we're impacted by 

### 3 things that impact our lives. 

### 4 I was happily born and raised here. I' m 

### 5 almost 60 years old. I have aunts and uncles who l ive 20:07:12 

### 6 here and have lived here all their life and still f eel 

### 7 like we live in the greatest and the most beautiful 

### 8 blue skies in the world. 

### 9 If we have a government that truly care s 

### 10 about all of its people, then we should have a 20:07:35 

### 11 government that not only cares about the impact of 

### 12 those environmentally, but also the impact of thosewho 

### 13 will be -- their lives will be uprooted and destroyed. 

### 14 The regional haze issue is based on the 

### 15 aesthetic distaste of a few people who do not want the 20:07:59 

### 16 environmental experience degraded. That is 

### 17 understandable. But the haze they are so unhappy about 

### 18 presents no physiological danger to humans, wildlif e or 

### 19 terrain if that is true. Whereas the harsh ruling that 

### 20 they are proposing will directly affect the economi c 20:08:22 

### 21 stability of a quarter of a million people in this 

### 22 area, and specifically will add to the devastation 

### 23 already being experienced here in the White Mountai ns. 

### 24 The national disaster is devastating to 

### 25 the area impacted by that disaster. But a disasterof 20:08:42

### 66

1 this magnitude caused by government in trying to 

### 2 over-regulate our livelihood is simply unacceptable . 

### 3 I believe -- and I'm speaking for a lit tle 

### 4 small town 30 miles south of here. We've already b een 

### 5 impacted to a great extent by the loss of three hun dred 20:09:01 

### 6 jobs. I am pleading not only for our livelihood bu t 

### 7 for the very existence of our town and for the 

### 8 surrounding areas. 

### 9 I do believe with all of my heart that we 

### 10 can, without destroying community, without destroyi ng 20:09:22 

### 11 and uprooting people's lives, that these things canbe 

### 12 taken care of by a government who truly cares aboutall 

### 13 of its people and not by a government who believes they 

### 14 can do anything they want without the voice of the 

### 15 people. And I think that's where we're at. I real ly, 20:09:46 

### 16 really do. Thank you. 

### 17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Terry Hill. 

### 18 MR. HILL: My name is Terry Hill, 

### 19 T-e-r-r-y. H-i-l-l. I've reviewed several, many 

### 20 photographs of the Grand Canyon that were taken pri or 20:10:14 

### 21 to 1900 and in the early part of the 20th century, well 

### 22 before power plants. Many of these photographs show 

### 23 haze. And I'm going to present to you a photograph 

### 24 that's from the U.S.C. digital library that shows a 

### 25 significant amount of haze that was taken -- a 20:10:47

### 67

1 photograph was taken somewhere circa 1900, 1912. 

### 2 Please review it. And go to the U.S.C. digital lib rary 

### 3 and you will see many more photographs from that same 

### 4 era prior to 1900 and shortly thereafter. 

### 5 It would appear to many of us that spec ial 20:20:38 

### 6 interest groups such as the Center for Biodiversityand 

### 7 the Sierra Club have colluded with the present 

### 8 administration in Washington to close down all 

### 9 coal-fired power plants and are using the EPA to doso. 

### 10 This is nothing more than an attack by the 20:21:05 

### 11 administration, another attack by this administrati on 

### 12 on the State of Arizona. This is a state issue. The 

### 13 EPA has no business coming in and changing the thin gs 

### 14 we do when it calls for a 2064 haze level to be wha t it 

### 15 was. And if we go back a hundred plus years, you'l l 20:21:07 

### 16 see there's plenty of haze there already. 

### 17 The whole haze thing, the whole -- whatdo 

### 18 you call it -- the R.H.R. is nothing but a scam. Thank 

### 19 you. 

### 20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Eli Blake. 20:21:08 

### 21 MS. BLAKE: Hello my name is Eli Blake, 

### 22 E-l-i, B-l-a-k-e. I should mention I'm the chairman of 

### 23 the Navajo County Democratic party. 

### 24 I'm not here to attack the administrati on, 

### 25 but I do want to make a point that these communitie s -- 20:21:09

### 68

1 and I live in Joseph City -- are unified in 

### 2 understanding that we need to find a solution that will 

### 3 maintain the jobs and keep the plants running. 

### 4 I would also point out that the -- to s ome 

### 5 extent the idea of green energy accomplishes itself . I 20:21:11 

### 6 think it's great to see all the wind farms going upand 

### 7 so forth, but at the same time, we talk about getti ng 

### 8 rid of gasoline burning cars. We talk about some day 

### 9 you'll have your battery popped out of an electrici ty 

### 10 vehicle, drive away, and they put yours up to a 20:21:13 

### 11 charger. Can you imagine how much electricity that 's 

### 12 going to take? In other words, we need to have both. 

### 13 I would also point out that the impact on 

### 14 the communities would be completely devastating. I 'm 

### 15 one of the very few people in Joseph City that doesnot 20:21:14 

### 16 work on at the power plant and has a job somehow 

### 17 dependent on the power plant. On the other hand my 

### 18 company buys fly ash, takes it back to Jo City, and 

### 19 makes concrete out of it. Not only is that an example 

### 20 of what is now a pollutant is being put to a good u se, 20:21:16 

### 21 but it's also an example of how far reaching we have an 

### 22 impact on the economy with these plants. 

### 23 Finally, I'd like to ask that you look at 

### 24 maybe postponing making this decision until after the 

### 25 first of January. And I'll tell you why. You know , I 20:21:18

### 69

1 appreciate that Congressman Gosar and his chief of 

### 2 staff -- he's not here. Our previous congress pers on 

### 3 was here tonight. But he's not here. We need somebody 

### 4 that will be our advocate in Washington, and we won 't 

### 5 have one until the first of the year. He's, of cou rse, 20:21:19 

### 6 moved to another district. 

### 7 The other thing we pointed out, I have 

### 8 asthma. I carry this thing around with me. BeforeI 

### 9 moved to Joseph City, I lived in Texas, Montana, New 

### 10 Mexico, other parts of Arizona, a lot of rural area s. 20:21:21 

### 11 I now live two miles from the Cholla plant, and I 

### 12 probably have to use this less often now than I eve r 

### 13 did before. Thank you. 

### 14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Trevor Baggiore. 

### 15 MR. BAGGIORE: Good evening. That's 20:21:22 

### 16 Trevor Baggiore, B-a-g-g-i-o-r-e, The Deputy Direct or 

### 17 for the Department of Air Quality. Arizona has bee n a 

### 18 part and partner in establishing regional haze 

### 19 objectives. 

### 20 In 2003 and 2004, Arizona submitted plans 20:21:24 

### 21 calling for voluntary reductions to improve its air 

### 22 quality. Those plans have been successful. 

### 23 Since 1995, emissions of sulfur dioxide 

### 24 and nitrogen oxides from all utilities are down 62 

### 25 percent and 39 percent respectively. 20:21:26

### 70

1 I want to make it clear that tonight we 're 

### 2 discussing plans to reduce regional haze, which is our 

### 3 ability to see things, albeit beautiful things, butsee 

### 4 those things better. 

### 5 Protection of public health is protecte d 20:21:27 

### 6 by the Clean Air Act, not the regional haze one. 

### 7 Regional haze standards allow for the considerationof 

### 8 cost in determining what is reasonable in terms of 

### 9 control. What EPA is proposing is not only 

### 10 unreasonable, but unnecessary. 20:21:28 

### 11 As of 2009, the EPA had not -- still no t 

### 12 acted on Arizona's 2003 and 2004 Regional Haze 

### 13 Proposals. Instead of following procedures, EPA found 

### 14 that Arizona failed to submit their Regional Haze P lan 

### 15 on the proposed haze regulations. Arizona got 20:21:28 

### 16 shoe-horned into this finding, with EPA identifying 

### 17 missing elements in Arizona plans. 

### 18 Rather than challenging EPA's action, 

### 19 Arizona worked with EPA and its other partners unti l 

### 20 2010, when it became clear that EPA's regional offi ces 20:21:28 

### 21 could not agree on a solution. 

### 22 For six months from 2011 and early 2012 , 

### 23 Arizona attempted to intervene as a codefendant in the 

### 24 lawsuit filed against EPA. The court granted Arizo na 

### 25 intervener status. Regardless, EPA and the plainti ffs 20:21:28

### 71

1 ignored Arizona and reached their own agreement. Even 

### 2 the Court ruled on issues without giving Arizona the 

### 3 opportunity to defend itself, only to retract the 

### 4 decision when Arizona noted the lack of due process . 

### 5 The EPA's inaction on this case makes n o 20:21:28 

### 6 sense. By failing to act, EPA's now substituting i ts 

### 7 own plan in place of Arizona's. As Governor Brewer 

### 8 pointed out: "EPA's current action usurps Arizona' s 

### 9 authority under the Clean Air Act and interferes wi th 

### 10 the long-standing partnership between EPA and the S tate 20:21:28 

### 11 to address protection of visual air quality in 

### 12 Arizona's national parks and wilderness areas." 

### 13 How did EPA make a finding that Arizona 

### 14 SIP's are incomplete, and then not cure the 

### 15 deficiencies with anything less than a remedy? 20:21:28 

### 16 It's important that we consider the 

### 17 process as a whole, not its individual parts. How can 

### 18 EPA agree to, when the Court sanctioned a deadline for 

### 19 action on Arizona's 2011 plan that is longer than that 

### 20 allowed under the Clean Air Act without Arizona bei ng a 20:21:28 

### 21 party to these negotiations? It cannot. 

### 22 To the extent that any federal plan is 

### 23 required, that may address only those incompletenes s 

### 24 issues that EPA identified in the 2009 finding of the 

### 25 law under the Clean Air Act. Any action on Arizona 's 20:21:28

### 72

1 2011 emissions plan can only be a proposed approval , 

### 2 partial approval and disapproval, or disapproval that 

### 3 provides Arizona an opportunity to correct any 

### 4 perceived deficiencies or administratively challenge 

### 5 EPA's decision prior to the implementation of the 20:21:28 

### 6 Federal FIP. 

### 7 In conclusion, I leave you with our 

### 8 governor's words: "It's incumbent on EPA to allow 

### 9 Arizona to discuss outstanding issues related to the 

### 10 Regional Haze Plan and not undermine the cooperative 20:21:28 

### 11 approach that previously typified the process to 

### 12 address regional haze in Arizona and other states i n 

### 13 the West." 

### 14 Arizona asks that EPA withdraw its 

### 15 proposed Federal Implementation Plan and open a 20:21:28 

### 16 dialogue up with the State to effectively move forward 

### 17 with the approval of the State's plan. Thank you. 

### 18 THE COURT: The next five speakers are 

### 19 Glen Lee, Nolan Larson, Lawrence Pena, Michael Fish , 

### 20 and Michael Whiting. 20:21:28 

### 21 THE COURT: It's Glen Lee here? Nolan 

### 22 Larson? Lawrence Pena? 

### 23 MR. LARSON: My name is Nolan Larson. I 

### 24 own a garbage business here in Snowflake, Arizona. We 

### 25 service Navajo, Apache, Coconino counties. I've li ved 20:21:28

### 73

1 in northern Arizona all my life. Not really a publ ic 

### 2 speaker. Never been a lot of things that good men and 

### 3 women before me have talked about. They did a bett er 

### 4 job than me, and I'll be quick, because we've been here 

### 5 a long time. 20:21:28 

### 6 A couple notes that I'd like to maybe make 

### 7 a point of is no matter how much regulation we have , 

### 8 every one of us is going to get sick and die. It'sa 

### 9 part of life. Sometimes we get sick early in life. If 

### 10 we put all the regulations in the world, bad thingsare 20:21:28 

### 11 still going to happen. 

### 12 The other point that I've listened here 

### 13 tonight, we've got a state regulatory agency that has 

### 14 done a fine job, will continue to do a fine job. 

### 15 As explained earlier, it seems that the y 20:21:28 

### 16 have actually done a bad job in EPA themselves. I 

### 17 would ask the EPA to reconsider the decisions that 

### 18 they've made and do what's best for Arizona and 

### 19 themselves here. Thank you. 

### 20 THE COURT: Lawrence Pena? Michael 20:21:28 

### 21 Whiting? 

### 22 MR. WHITING: Good evening. My name is 

### 23 Michael Whiting, w-h-i-t-i-n-g. I live over in St. 

### 24 Johns, Arizona; born and raised there, live there r ight 

### 25 now. I think it's sad that the folks that are goin g to 20:21:28

### 74

1 read these comments, they're going to see them in b lack 

### 2 and white on a piece of paper. They're not going t o 

### 3 see the people who have got up here and the express ions 

### 4 they had and the thoughts they truly share. 

### 5 I want to paint a quick picture to the 20:21:28 

### 6 folks up in the EPA that are going to be reading th is, 

### 7 because it seems that they've got a hazy understanding, 

### 8 if you will, of the problem you have here. And tha t is 

### 9 the fact that it's very sad that they make a livingoff 

### 10 our taxes; that their salaries are paid from our taxes; 20:21:28 

### 11 yet they won't even show up to a meeting to see the 

### 12 hundreds if not the thousands of people they're goi ng 

### 13 to affect, and they can't sit here. And I apprecia te 

### 14 that you're both here and they sent you. I wish the 

### 15 people that would make the decisions would be here. 20:21:28 

### 16 Just real quick, I think we can look at 

### 17 this from a common sense standpoint. We talk aboutall 

### 18 kinds of science. But just common sense, in northe rn 

### 19 Arizona that's this: The EPA is required to clean up 

### 20 the hazing, if you will, the haze in the air by 206 4. 20:21:28 

### 21 That's a long time. Most of us will not be alive. Yet 

### 22 we're now proposing regulations in 2012 that will n ot 

### 23 clean up the hazing to any perceptible difference. The 

### 24 human eye will not be able to see that. The argume nt 

### 25 with the haze that's surrounded the Grand Canyon an d 20:21:28

### 75

1 national parks, et cetera, the rules being proposedand 

### 2 the technology that's being implemented at millions , if 

### 3 not billions of dollars, will not clean up that 

### 4 problem, will not solve that problem. 

### 5 That seems like insanity to me that we' re 20:21:28 

### 6 going to impose something that will not solve the 

### 7 problem. We're going to put hundreds if not thousands 

### 8 of people out of jobs. With that, the rule becomes 

### 9 arbitrary and capricious. To the understanding the 

### 10 Court's going to look at, administrative body is go ing 20:21:28 

### 11 to look at, that's arbitrary, capricious to an act or 

### 12 regulation on a rule on a city that will not accomp lice 

### 13 the goals that are required by law. 

### 14 So you folks reading these comments as you 

### 15 sit in your office in San Francisco, you enjoy the 20:21:28 

### 16 electricity we provide. I want you to think about the 

### 17 common sense aspect of this. Ask yourself, why didNew 

### 18 Mexico get a stay on these same regulations? New 

### 19 Mexico voted for the current president, Obama; Ariz ona 

### 20 did not. 20:21:28 

### 21 Arizona's governor, there's a picture o f 

### 22 her putting her finger in the president's face. Ma ybe 

### 23 that sits on the desk. 

### 24 Don't be that puppet of the EPA. I'm 

### 25 talking about the people reading these, making the 20:21:28

### 76

1 decisions. Don't be a puppet of the administration . 

### 2 When the sister state gets a stay and we don't, give us 

### 3 a stay and work through the process that we're supp osed 

### 4 to work through as government agencies, and do the 

### 5 right thing. Thank you. 20:21:28 

### 6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Michael Fish. 

### 7 MR. FISH: Good evening I'm Michael Fis h. 

### 8 I live the Show Low, Arizona. I, like probably 

### 9 everyone here, wishes there wasn't so much haze, bu t I 

### 10 believe to approach the power plants is wrong. I f ound 20:21:28 

### 11 a couple of examples. I found a document which was 

### 12 talking the air quality of the Grand Canyon. It sa ys 

### 13 most of this pollution, haze comes from southern 

### 14 California, southern Arizona, and northern New Mexi co. 

### 15 I found a report entitled Regional Haze Case Studie s 20:21:28 

### 16 from the Southwestern US Regarding Source 

### 17 Contributions. This study was conducted by Washington 

### 18 University from St. Louis, Missouri. And their stu dy 

### 19 centered on the air quality of Arizona. One of the 

### 20 conclusions released, quote, "Perhaps the most 20:21:28 

### 21 important and well-documented conclusion of this study 

### 22 is the existence of an identifiable impact of Southern 

### 23 California smog on the air quality of the southwest ern 

### 24 US." 

### 25 Another conclusion of this states quote , 20:21:28

### 77

1 "There is a suggestion in the evidence that during the 

### 2 two documented summer incursions, southern Californ ia 

### 3 was responsible not only for the primary pollutants 

### 4 reaching the Page area, but also as to the locationof 

### 5 the formation of the bulk of the secondary pollutan ts," 20:21:28 

### 6 end quote. 

### 7 My point is in the whole picture of the se 

### 8 -- these retrofitted coal-burning plants are small 

### 9 sources that are being asked to go to huge costly 

### 10 measures that will not make sense. It seems that s ome 20:21:28 

### 11 people will hate coal no matter how clean coal plan ts 

### 12 have become. Common sense and scientific data do n ot 

### 13 back up their extreme views. 

### 14 Our policy makers represent all of us and 

### 15 must not give in to these special interests that donot 20:21:28 

### 16 have science on their side. Thank you. 

### 17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Shawn Nau. 

### 18 MR. NAU: Good evening. My name is Shawn 

### 19 Nau. S-h-a-w-n. N-a-u. I'm manager for the Town of 

### 20 Eagar which is located an hour and a half southeastof 20:21:28 

### 21 Holbrook in White Mountains and southern Apache County. 

### 22 One week ago this evening our council 

### 23 considered and passed a resolution requesting three 

### 24 things of the EPA this evening. The three things 

### 25 specifically that they requested and perhaps the mo st 20:21:28

### 78

1 important of the three is that the EPA consider hav ing 

### 2 another public hearing in Apache County and 

### 3 particularly St. Johns which would be closer to tho se 

### 4 communities that would be directly affected by the 

### 5 regulations as applied to the Coronado station. 20:21:28 

### 6 Eagar is a bedroom community for much o f 

### 7 what's called Round Valley, and many of our residen ts 

### 8 live there and work for the proposed power plants. 

### 9 The second request would be that the EPA 

### 10 extend the comment period for an additional 90 daysto 20:21:28 

### 11 give the Apache County residents an opportunity to 

### 12 understand what the regulations are and how they would 

### 13 impact their community. 

### 14 And, third, the council would ask that the 

### 15 EPA would withdraw its current FIP and look at the 20:21:28 

### 16 State of Arizona as it has done in the past rather than 

### 17 implement something without its consideration. And 

### 18 I'll leave a copy of this motion for you as well. 

### 19 Thank you. 

### 20 THE HEARING OFFICER: The next five 20:21:28 

### 21 speakers, Joe T. Pearce, Paul Ramsey, and Dale Patt on. 

### 22 Perry Duthie and Steven Slaton. 

### 23 Joe T. Pearce you may come up. 

### 24 MR. PEARCE: I'm Joe T. Pearce, 

### 25 p-e-a-r-c-e. I was born and raised in Linden, Ariz ona 20:21:28

### 79

1 or Show Low. I live on a homestead that my father 

### 2 homesteaded. I've always worked for myself. I've been 

### 3 self-employed all my life. I had the original ceme nt 

### 4 plant and poured concrete for the Cholla power plan t. 

### 5 That little pony stack that's the short one out the re 20:21:28 

### 6 is the one that we poured. We thought that was a 

### 7 tremendous feat when we poured 422 yards at the bas e of 

### 8 it in one day. 

### 9 I've always worked for myself, always b een 

### 10 in this area. I've seen the regulations change andgo 20:21:28 

### 11 up and down and back and forth. When I started outwe 

### 12 would make three reports quarterly, and when I quit , I 

### 13 was making 36 reports quarterly. Thank goodness I was 

### 14 ready to retire and kind of slow down. 

### 15 As far as the environmentalists' concerns, 20:21:28 

### 16 I have seen them grow from a minimum that we had wh ich 

### 17 is probably too slack to where it's getting to wher e 

### 18 it's, well, I quit working and being an employer 

### 19 because of the number of regulations. Thank goodne ss 

### 20 the ones I sold out to are still trying to make a go of 20:21:28 

### 21 it, and I think they're doing quite well. 

### 22 I remember back in the 70's when I was on 

### 23 the school board and the Forest Service furnished 2 5 

### 24 percent of the budget for the school expenses. And 

### 25 that was in the Show Low school district. Now, the y 20:21:28

### 80

1 don't furnish any. The environmentalists have removed 

### 2 over 55 thousand head of livestock. 

### 3 The lumber industry -- this is the repo rt 

### 4 that was given at the Cattle Owner's Association in 

### 5 Springerville. The lumber industry is reduced from20:21:28 

### 6 just under three hundred million board feet to less 

### 7 than 30 million board feet. That's a great reducti on 

### 8 on the economy around in this area. 

### 9 I also remember when the lottery came i nto 

### 10 existence in this area. As I came out from voting, 20:21:28 

### 11 because on the lottery it said a percentage of the 

### 12 lottery would go to environmentalists for improveme nt, 

### 13 and I met Jim Bryant. And he was a logger over in Fort 

### 14 Apache selling the lumber. And I said did you votefor 

### 15 the environmentalists getting a percentage of the 20:21:28 

### 16 lottery? He said I sure did. I said, did you know 

### 17 that you just voted yourself out of a job. 

### 18 Prophetically, that's happened. 

### 19 I'm sure that's not where the environme nt 

### 20 gets all of the money, but the place that we need t o 20:21:28 

### 21 start working on. 

### 22 And I turn to the voters and say we nee d 

### 23 to vote to make sure that there's less money given to 

### 24 the environmentalists. 

### 25 THE HEARING OFFICER: Paul Ramsey? 20:21:28

### 81

1 MR. RAMSEY: My name is Paul Ramsey. I 'm 

### 2 with the city of St. Johns. The City of St. Johns

-- 

### 3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Could you spell your 

### 4 last name? 

### 5 MR. RAMSEY: R-a-m-s-e-y. 20:21:28 

### 6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. 

### 7 MR. RAMSEY: City of St. Johns is locat ed 

### 8 near Coronado Generating Station which employs abou t 

### 9 two hundred people permanently. Those two hundred jobs 

### 10 impact our little community immensely. Not all live in 20:21:28 

### 11 our community, but even the surrounding communities 

### 12 that have been affected such as Springerville, Eaga r, 

### 13 Snowflake, Show Low, Taylor, and probably some of our 

### 14 citizens are employed at the Cholla power plant. The 

### 15 impact of decisions that are made by this agency could 20:21:28 

### 16 reduce those employees considerably. The loss of t en 

### 17 jobs in a small community has a ripple effect that 

### 18 can't be returned sometimes ever, but it's always 

### 19 substantial. 

### 20 We in St. Johns would implore the EPA t o 20:21:28 

### 21 remove this FIP and go back to the state agency tha t 

### 22 was designed to control regulation and understand the 

### 23 issues that are in the great State of Arizona. 

### 24 When we -- when we give those to the Fe d, 

### 25 it's too far reaching. As I stated before, I believe 20:21:28

### 82

1 the haze problem is between that agency and the Sta te 

### 2 of Arizona. They don't see from a daily standpoint 

### 3 what these workers and what the impact of reducing 

### 4 these jobs or causing the increase in costs to all of 

### 5 the recipients of what they produced will impact the 20:21:28 

### 6 nation and most importantly this state. 

### 7 We ask that that regulation -- regulato ry 

### 8 authority return to the ADEQ. Obviously, it's been 

### 9 nearly ten years to provide a document that not onl y 

### 10 addresses all the issues you're talking about, but 20:21:28 

### 11 takes into consideration the economic impacts of th is 

### 12 state and the individuals who would be impacted by the 

### 13 loss of those jobs and the loss of the power to the 

### 14 grid. 

### 15 Always an authority needs to be close t o 20:21:28 

### 16 the people and to the source. And that's why these 

### 17 state agencies need the power to control and implement 

### 18 what is needed and not over-implement. 

### 19 It has been told time and time again that 

### 20 the impact of this legislation is not a health issu e, 20:21:28 

### 21 nor is it anything that can even be seen by the vis ible 

### 22 eye when it is fully implemented, but yet we're goi ng 

### 23 to spends millions and millions of dollars. Not on ly 

### 24 will our small community be affected but all of the se 

### 25 surrounding, these other power plants. And we woul d 20:21:28

### 83

1 request that you remove the FIP and give that autho rity 

### 2 back to the State. Thank you. 

### 3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Dale Patton. 

### 4 MR. PATTON: Good evening. My name is 

### 5 Dale Patton. I'm the city attorney for Winslow. 20:21:28 

### 6 Winslow is located about 40 miles west of here between 

### 7 here and Flagstaff. For over 28, 30 years that I've 

### 8 driven back and forth from Winslow to Holbrook, I drive 

### 9 by the Cholla power plant every day twice: Early 

### 10 morning with the sun in my eyes, and late at night with 20:21:28 

### 11 the sun in my eyes. Every day I look at Cholla power 

### 12 plant. I've never noticed any problem. I don't th ink 

### 13 the people in Jo City, friends of mine and neighbor s, 

### 14 have noticed any problem. They continue to live there. 

### 15 They haven't moved. 20:21:28 

### 16 I was born in Snowflake and have lived 

### 17 most of my life, all of my life in Arizona. And wein 

### 18 Arizona are used to a little bit of dirt in the air . 

### 19 City of Winslow is used to dirt in the air all of the 

### 20 time. We're a little concerned, however, with peop le 20:21:28 

### 21 from Washington telling us how we want to live and what 

### 22 kind of air we should be breathing. 

### 23 There was some time ago when I took a t rip 

### 24 out to Washington DC and met with the members of BI A. 

### 25 Those of you who have worked with the BIA know whata 20:21:28

### 84

1 unique experience that is. As I walked down the ha ll, 

### 2 as far as I could see the hall would go as far as I 

### 3 could see. I walked down to the end of that hall, 

### 4 there were halls going as far as I could see. Thatwas 

### 5 BIA. EPA is similar. 20:21:28 

### 6 As I said in that meeting, I went to that 

### 7 meeting to meet with BIA, with representatives of the 

### 8 Hopi tribe. The reason for that is the Hopi Tribe owns 

### 9 a rather large structure in Winslow called the BEV 

### 10 plant. At that time, Hopi tribe had put a major amount 20:21:28 

### 11 of money in development, and they had procured some one, 

### 12 and they happened to be from Korea. The Hopi peopl e 

### 13 did their own due diligence, had hired consultants and 

### 14 did everything they could to entice these people to 

### 15 come to Winslow, Arizona and lease that building fr om 20:21:28 

### 16 them, so they would have the revenues from that 

### 17 building. 

### 18 Guess what? We had to go back on behal f 

### 19 of the Hopi tribe and the area in Winslow and Holbr ook 

### 20 and meet with the BIA attorneys. We spent three hours 20:21:28 

### 21 explaining to them why what they thought was best f or 

### 22 us wasn't best for us. 

### 23 My concern is that we're doing the same 

### 24 thing here tonight. We already agreed that ADEQ, 

### 25 Arizona Department of Environment Quality, a legitimate 20:21:28

### 85

1 agency, a good faith agency, certainly competent agency 

### 2 and willing to represent the needs of this state, i t's 

### 3 our suggestion on behalf of the City of Winslow tha t 

### 4 EPA look at the ADEQ, sit down and meet with them i n 

### 5 good faith, not rattle sabers, but meet with them i n 20:21:28 

### 6 good faith and try to come up with a plan that willbe 

### 7 beneficial and cost effective. Thank you. 

### 8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Eric Duthie. 

### 9 MR. DUTHIE: Thank you. My name is Eri c 

### 10 Duthie. I am a town manager of Taylor, Arizona. 20:21:28 

### 11 That's d-u-t-h-i-e or Ruthie with a D., like we use d to 

### 12 tell our lawyers. I'm the Taylor town manager as well 

### 13 as the coordinator of the Real Arizona Corridor, an 

### 14 alliance of municipal and county governments, 

### 15 businesses, financial institutions, entrepreneurs, and 20:21:28 

### 16 supporters of jobs and job growth in Navajo and Apa che 

### 17 County. I have this box before me to submit to you 

### 18 over seven hundred letters individually signed by 

### 19 residents, business owners, citizens, and other 

### 20 interested parties throughout our region requestingthe 20:21:28 

### 21 EPA extend the public comment period to a much late r 

### 22 date, as well as provide more public hearings in ar eas 

### 23 directly and negatively impacted by this rule, 

### 24 specifically, here in Navajo, Apache, and Cochise 

### 25 Counties in Arizona. More letters are being collec ted, 20:21:28

### 86

1 and there's a woman standing right back there who w ill 

### 2 be glad to take your letters and turn them in, as well. 

### 3 The letters, again, are requesting your 

### 4 delay. Section 169 (A) and (B) of the Clean Air Ac t 

### 5 states in part that EPA shall encourage cooperative20:21:28 

### 6 activities by States and local governments. And the 

### 7 air pollution control and prevention is the primary 

### 8 responsibility of the state and local governments. 

### 9 Haze is measured in deciviews. In some 

### 10 scientific circles, a deciview is similar to a decibel 20:21:28 

### 11 for hearing impaired. Most people can't perceive the 

### 12 deference in a single decibel increase or decrease. 

### 13 The same can be said of a single deciview. As I 

### 14 understand, this proposed rule impacts less than on e 

### 15 deciview, which is a curiosity considering the time , 20:21:28 

### 16 effort, and expense needed to create this mostly 

### 17 imperceptible change. 

### 18 As chairman of the Northern Arizona 

### 19 Council of Government Tourism Committee for five ye ars, 

### 20 I was required to visit and view several Class I ar eas 20:21:28 

### 21 in the NACOG region, including the Grand Canyon, 

### 22 Petrified Forest, Mount Baldy, and the Mazatzal, 

### 23 Sycamore Canyon, and Pine Wilderness areas. 

### 24 In all these years of asking visitors how 

### 25 they came to visit, they always cited their desire to 20:21:28

### 87

1 visit at least once in their lifetime, and they wer e 

### 2 finally able to afford the visit. Not once, did they 

### 3 say they needed to be selective of their travel dat es 

### 4 due to concerns over haze. I have, however, heard a 

### 5 lifetime of complaints about haze in metropolitan a reas 20:21:28 

### 6 such as Phoenix, Los Angeles and, yes, Washington, DC. 

### 7 These complaints continue today with little action to 

### 8 resolve that visibility issue. 

### 9 My point is simple: Tourists visit whe n 

### 10 they can afford to visit regardless of the haze. 20:21:28 

### 11 Even though the EPA seems to suggest that 

### 12 the skies of this region are haze problematic, it i s 

### 13 important to know that two of the world's finest 

### 14 observatories, Lowell and the US Naval Observatory 

### 15 continued expansion and investment because of the 20:21:28 

### 16 clarity of our skies. 

### 17 Several smaller astronomy groups are al so 

### 18 hosted in this region and are actively promoting th is 

### 19 area because of the clarity of our skies and the 

### 20 exemplary visibility it provides. 20:21:28 

### 21 This region has suffered significantly 

### 22 during the extended economic downturn, and employme nt 

### 23 at any level is precious. Earlier this month, a ma jor 

### 24 regional employer surprised us with a shocking 

### 25 announcement that they will close their 100 percent20:21:28

### 88

1 recycled material paper mill. Let me repeat that t o 

### 2 the EPA, they closed a one hundred percent recycled 

### 3 material paper mill. 

### 4 Now couple that with the EPA's desire t o 

### 5 implement a revision to a long-established plan, on e 20:21:28 

### 6 that Arizona has until the year 2064, 52 years from 

### 7 today, in which to become compliant. 

### 8 What is the motivation for such a rapid 

### 9 turn of events at the EPA? Is there an undisclosed 

### 10 epidemic health risk upon us? Is there an undisclo sed 20:21:28 

### 11 contamination risk upon us? Is this simply a presi dent 

### 12 wagging his finger in the face of a governor? Is this 

### 13 politically driven? 

### 14 Regardless of the reason, the timing is 

### 15 catastrophic for the economic and employment base f or 20:21:28 

### 16 this region and throughout the State. 

### 17 We implore you to delay implementation of 

### 18 a rule revision until all affected parties can have 

### 19 sufficient time to review and assess the impacts of 

### 20 this rule beyond the sole viewpoint of the EPA. Thank 20:21:28 

### 21 you. 

### 22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Steven Slaton. 

### 23 MR. SLATON: Good evening. My name is 

### 24 Steven Slaton. I am a certified residential apprai ser 

### 25 in the State of Arizona. If the closure of these 20:21:28

### 89

1 plants occur, the devastating impact on this whole 

### 2 region is going to be tremendous. Right now we arein 

### 3 a depression. This is no recession. We are in a 

### 4 depression. The property values in Joseph City are 

### 5 running in older homes from 18 thousand to 30 thous and. 20:21:28 

### 6 There's going to be a loss of property taxes, revenue, 

### 7 self worth to all those individuals. Holbrook area s, 

### 8 these homes up here for these folks. I report whatis 

### 9 going on in the market. I do not make the market up. 

### 10 These banks are fighting about these foreclosures. 20:21:28 

### 11 They are reneging on a lot of their loans. A lot o f 

### 12 people aren't being able to get financed. UAA is 

### 13 bailing out. They got rid of Joseph City. Put all 

### 14 cash sales. Same is going on in Winslow. Winslow is 

### 15 going down to 40 thousand, nice high home is maybe 75 20:21:28 

### 16 thousand. That's almost an 60 percent loss. 

### 17 These plants closed, the impact will be 

### 18 tremendous, not to the individuals, but to the citi es. 

### 19 You're talking about lost property taxes, lost reve nues 

### 20 to go to these schools, and it just spirals. It go es 20:21:28 

### 21 on and on and on, and there's no end in sight. 

### 22 The best thing I suggest is keep it goi ng 

### 23 and kill the resolution. Some these suggestions ar e 

### 24 not very good. I was over at wind city. They got miles 

### 25 of windmills out there. Not one of them is turning . 20:21:28

### 90

1 I suggest all this haze talk, worry about 

### 2 haze, talk about haze. My wife and I were sitting in 

### 3 our living room, the wind blows right through there . 

### 4 It's a natural occurrence in Flagstaff, 12 thousand 

### 5 feet. It blows across the reservation. This is no t 20:21:28 

### 6 rocket science, folks. This is taken out of 

### 7 proportion. I'm sure this is all part of the 

### 8 administration trying to question everybody on it. 

### 9 I'll tell you right now, you want to question us, 

### 10 question us now. Close these plants down next week . 20:21:28 

### 11 Let's get 10 million people with their pitch forks and 

### 12 let's get it on. Those in Washington, you want to shut 

### 13 us down, shut us down. We'll survive. We're 

### 14 Americans. We've got guns. We've got ammo. We'vegot 

### 15 food. We will do it, and we will take care of our own. 20:21:28 

### 16 You want to shut these plants down, do it now. Thank 

### 17 you. 

### 18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Will the next five 

### 19 speakers come up? Steve Seymore, is he here? 

### 20 MR. SEYMOUR: Right here. 20:21:28 

### 21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Steve Seymore. 

### 22 Mable Benally. Is Mable Benally here? We'll come 

### 23 back. Fern Benally. Tom Dorn. Tom Dorn. And Mar y 

### 24 Kartchner. Is Mary Kartchner here? Okay. 

### 25 Steve Seymore, you want to come up and20:21:28

### 91

1 speak? 

### 2 MR. SEYMORE: Steve Seymore, 

### 3 s-e-y-m-o-r-e. It seems to me that whatever 

### 4 limitations the standard is this industry makes, it 

### 5 applies to the government folks. And EPA raised mo re 20:21:28 

### 6 stringent rules and limitations until the benefits and 

### 7 gains are so small and so expensive they are no lon ger 

### 8 cost effective to implement by the providers. 

### 9 Now they've gone so far as to set standard 

### 10 of limitations that are not achievable. Let's callan 20:21:28 

### 11 ace and ace and a spade a spade and say it appears that 

### 12 EPA rules are destroying this portion of the energy 

### 13 industry. Regional haze, NOx, and mercury removal 

### 14 standards are the spotted owls related to energy. Why 

### 15 can't the EPA and environment groups work with and in 20:21:28 

### 16 conjunction with energy providers? Just as I believe 

### 17 the EPA and environmental movement have the best 

### 18 interests agenda, I'm certain that they believe tha t we 

### 19 do as well. 

### 20 I, for one, live in this area, love thi s 20:21:28 

### 21 area and have raised my family here. I was raised here 

### 22 as well. I don't want to do anything or have anyth ing 

### 23 around here that would harm this area or damage the 

### 24 environment in which I live or in which my friends, 

### 25 families, and neighbors live. However, the 20:21:28

### 92

1 environmental policies of late regarding our forest s 

### 2 have proven total failures and have caused more damage 

### 3 and loss of habitat for the very spotted owl they'r e 

### 4 supposed to protect than the entire paper industry ever 

### 5 did. And I dare say the pollution from the fires i n 20:21:28 

### 6 the last ten years, both the Chedeski Rodeo and Wal low 

### 7 fires, have caused more regional health concerns than 

### 8 all the smoke stack industries combined in the last50. 

### 9 Why don't we meet somewhere in the middle, 

### 10 and satisfy both sides concern over regional haze t o 20:21:28 

### 11 each other's satisfaction? 

### 12 Why not have the EPA meet with the 

### 13 targeted regional providers and set a date for a 30 -day 

### 14 period when all the energy providers shut their uni ts 

### 15 down. Have an independent party mutually agreed up on 20:21:28 

### 16 monitor the regional haze and determine the amount of 

### 17 industry pollution of haze that the regional genera ting 

### 18 stations add to it, if any. We could also determin e 

### 19 the effects of the loss of generation of the power 

### 20 grid. Let the wind and solar generation take up the 20:21:28 

### 21 slack. 

### 22 They could use that down time to perform 

### 23 maintenance and the regional haze could be satisfie d 

### 24 once and for all to the satisfaction of all. Then you 

### 25 could have a plan mutually agreed upon to address the 20:21:28

### 93

1 results. 

### 2 As Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Las Vegas, to 

### 3 name a few, are in the path of the regional prevail ing 

### 4 winds, and with the emission controls that have bee n 

### 5 implemented over the last 20 years by regional energy 20:21:28 

### 6 providers, I dare say, we would find that the regio nal 

### 7 haze today is more a result of those metropolitan 

### 8 areas' pollution than it is the regional generating 

### 9 stations. 

### 10 There is simply too much at risk, both 20:21:28 

### 11 environmentally and economically, for this entire 

### 12 region to not work together on this issue. Rather than 

### 13 pointing fingers, fabricating studies and results and 

### 14 knee-jerk responses, let's be sensible, adult, and 

### 15 professional regarding this issue and work togetherfor 20:21:28 

### 16 a fair and mutually beneficial solution. 

### 17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mable Benally. 

### 18 We'll allow them more time, a little more time. You 

### 19 can actually interpret. 

### 20 MS. BENALLY: I am from Black Mesa, 20:21:28 

### 21 Arizona. And my name is Helen Mable Benally. I li ve 

### 22 near the mining area upon the Black Mesa area. AndI 

### 23 know of the smell from the mining smoke, the coal 

### 24 burning smoke. It's -- it has a large impact on my 

### 25 health. 20:21:28

### 94

1 People are talking about job losses and 

### 2 electricity that is made from the coal. Why don't they 

### 3 take all of this to their area, because we do not want 

### 4 the mining and the health ills that come from minin g 

### 5 and haze. 20:21:28 

### 6 These are my opinions. Even the 

### 7 electrical transmission lines create health impactsand 

### 8 health ills. I saw one of the livestock from my --in 

### 9 my pasture that was electrocuted when it stepped over a 

### 10 wire, a hot wire. 20:21:28 

### 11 These are my opinions. If you need job s, 

### 12 find jobs elsewhere where we're not impacted by the 

### 13 coal mining, power plants. 

### 14 If it's the job that these people want, 

### 15 they can take the jobs and live within the mining a reas 20:21:28 

### 16 right there on-site. 

### 17 And we've lost a lot of water due to the 

### 18 mining that takes a lot of water. 

### 19 These are my thoughts. And there's bee n 

### 20 some laughter. I feel that these people are laughi ng 20:21:28 

### 21 at us, because we want to take care of our lands an d 

### 22 our sacred places on the land. 

### 23 These are my thoughts. And I came hereto 

### 24 listen and to participate in the meetings. If it'sa 

### 25 job that people want, they can find jobs elsewhere, 20:21:28

### 95

1 like I said. For example, an ant does not have to look 

### 2 -- an ant looks far and near to bring together whatit 

### 3 needs to survive. 

### 4 They have destroyed my lands and 

### 5 everything related to the environment. These are 20:21:28 

### 6 evidence that I've seen, that I live with every day . 

### 7 These are my grave concerns. 

### 8 Sometimes I cannot sleep. I go outside 

### 9 and think about these things. I can smell the smoke 

### 10 from the mine coals that are burning. 20:21:28 

### 11 There have been a lot of family members 

### 12 that have passed on who have worked at the mines, and 

### 13 other individuals that I've seen at the mines that are 

### 14 non-Navajo. They've worked there for many years. 

### 15 Sometimes I ask about them, and they tell me that they 20:21:28 

### 16 died from cardiac arrest or other illnesses. The 

### 17 mines, the coal mining kills and destroys. 

### 18 That is all I want to say. Thank you. 

### 19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Fern 

### 20 Benally. 20:21:28 

### 21 MS. FERN BENALLY: Thank you. My name is 

### 22 Fern Benally. I'm from Black Mesa where Peabody Co al 

### 23 is located. Thank you gentleman from EPA and your 

### 24 support staff here. 

### 25 Viruses and bacterias are invisible to the 20:21:28

### 96

1 naked eye but can have devastating effect if not 

### 2 treated. All the five power plants surrounding the 

### 3 Navajo Nation are multiple pollutants you can't mea sure 

### 4 which are invisible to the naked eye, much like viruses 

### 5 and bacteria have had irreversible -- the pollutant s 20:21:28 

### 6 much like the viruses and bacterias have had 

### 7 irreversible consequences on the lives of my family , 

### 8 relatives, and neighbors. 

### 9 So, tragically, the pollutants which ar e 

### 10 invisible have taken away many lives and others have 20:21:28 

### 11 faced many medical costs, living every day with lun g 

### 12 disease, heart disease, cancers. Tonight I'll cough 

### 13 intermittently, not because I have a cold, but because 

### 14 I left my inhaler outside, and I wanted to hear 

### 15 everybody talk. You can't catch anything from me. 20:21:28 

### 16 I caught it because of the coal pollutants 

### 17 and power plant pollutants. Years ago I was living 

### 18 away from the Navajo Nation, but I came back less than 

### 19 ten years. In that short time, I have been diagnos ed 

### 20 with asthma. And it's a rough life when you can't 20:21:28 

### 21 breathe. I see little kids, they can't breathe bec ause 

### 22 asthma has increased so greatly. 

### 23 At my home the wind mostly blows northe ast 

### 24 and rare occasions west. Peabody Coal is directly 

### 25 north northeast of my home. However, most morningsI 20:21:28

### 97

1 see the smog from the northeast coal mine that has 

### 2 burning coal fires that has settled directly west i n 

### 3 the Blue Canyon Wash which is also known as Moenkop i 

### 4 Wash. Maybe it's so flat here, but I know all that 

### 5 stuff settles, because I can see it in the morning. 20:21:28 

### 6 And I'm sure people visiting Grand Canyon can see i t, 

### 7 also, the ones that even though the winds does not blow 

### 8 directly west here, either. 

### 9 I'm almost done. My people have seen the 

### 10 tragic consequences of fossil fuels. The solution to 20:21:28 

### 11 more water, to clean energy will be wonderful. 

### 12 So, gentleman from the EPA, let's conti nue 

### 13 to move forward to clean energy which will also cre ate 

### 14 jobs. I thought Navajo Nation agents were governme nt 

### 15 agents were the only ones that run fossil fuels, bu t I 20:21:28 

### 16 was sadly, deeply and sadly to see all these people 

### 17 from the county, from the State who are leaders to hear 

### 18 what they had to say and be stuck on fossil fuels. 

### 19 And the guy with the pictures, we know 

### 20 that be photographers add filters. Thank you. 20:21:28 

### 21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Tom Dorn. 

### 22 MR. DORN: Good evening. My name is Tom 

### 23 Dorn. I'm here on behalf of an organization known as 

### 24 ACCCE, the American Coalition for Clean Coal 

### 25 Electricity. ACCCE is a partnership of industries 20:21:28

### 98

1 involved in producing electricity from coal. Coal as 

### 2 an abundant and affordable energy resource has prov ided 

### 3 nearly half of the electricity Americans depend upo n 

### 4 each and every day over the past decade. 

### 5 ACCCE supports policies that advance the 20:21:28 

### 6 air quality measures which comply with both federaland 

### 7 state law and realistically meet their stated purpo se. 

### 8 I'm here today to talk about regional 

### 9 haze, not health. We're here to share with you ACC CE's 

### 10 great concern that the proposed EPA rule will creat e 20:21:28 

### 11 the same pain that we are experiencing now at the pump 

### 12 with high gas prices. 

### 13 It will hurt Arizona, its citizens, its 

### 14 workers that rely on affordable energy produced by 

### 15 Arizona coal-powered units. Thousands of mine, power 20:21:28 

### 16 plant, and contractor jobs are at risk, along with 

### 17 hundreds of millions of dollars of regional economi c 

### 18 benefits, all for virtually no perceptible gain. 

### 19 Not only is EPA's proposal the wrong pl an 

### 20 for Arizona and energy consumers, EPA's proposal charts 20:21:28 

### 21 a path to unlawfully take away the State's regulato ry 

### 22 authority. It calls for potentially mandating hundreds 

### 23 of millions of dollars to control technologies that 

### 24 will not result in any perceptible improvement in 

### 25 visibility in Class I areas, which is the sole purp ose 20:21:28

### 99

1 of the regional haze program. This cannot be a common 

### 2 sense approach. 

### 3 Because of these concerns, ACCCE asked the 

### 4 EPA Administrator Jackson, EPA Regional Administrat or 

### 5 Bloomingfeld to seriously rethink the EPA's Propose d 20:21:28 

### 6 Implementation Plan for Arizona. The right and 

### 7 well-advised path forward is that EPA should approve 

### 8 the Regional Haze Plan submitted by the State of 

### 9 Arizona. 

### 10 The regional haze program is a partners hip 20:21:28 

### 11 between the states and the federal government. As long 

### 12 recognized by the United States Supreme Court, the 

### 13 Clean Air Act establishes a comprehensive national 

### 14 program that makes the states and the federal 

### 15 government partners in the struggle against air 20:21:28 

### 16 pollution. 

### 17 Further, the Clean Air Act states air 

### 18 pollution prevention and air pollution control at i ts 

### 19 source is the primary responsibility of the states and 

### 20 local governments. 20:21:28 

### 21 Getting more specifically to the topic 

### 22 today, the US Court of Appeals for the District of 

### 23 Columbia circuit has ruled that the Clean Air Act c alls 

### 24 for states to play the lead role in designing and 

### 25 implementing regional haze programs. 20:21:28

### 100

1 As EPA knows, the goal of the regional 

### 2 haze program is to maintain and improve visible air 

### 3 quality in national parks and wildernesses. While 

### 4 states are required to develop plans to insure 

### 5 reasonable progress is made for achieving visibilit y 20:21:28 

### 6 progression goals, the Clean Air Act thus gives 

### 7 Arizona, not EPA, primary authority in determining BART 

### 8 and reasonable progress measures that should be 

### 9 emission sources in the State. 

### 10 However, the proposed rule for Arizona 20:21:28 

### 11 fails to promote and implement the state and federa l 

### 12 partnership enshrined in the Federal Clean Air Act. 

### 13 The State of Arizona has diligently complied with the 

### 14 visibility program requirements to meet the program 's 

### 15 regional haze goals and its determination should be20:21:28 

### 16 respected and supported by EPA, not disapproved. 

### 17 Simply put, EPA cannot and should not trample on 

### 18 Arizona sovereignty. 

### 19 EPA's proposed SIP rules is not justifi ed 

### 20 and is too expensive for Arizona. 20:21:28 

### 21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Your time is up. 

### 22 MR. DORN: The goal of the Regional Haz e 

### 23 Program is to improve visibility, not increase cost s. 

### 24 EPA's proposed plan, frankly, makes no 

### 25 economic environmental sense. When EPA's and Arizo na 20:21:28

### 101

1 plans are compared side by side, there is no 

### 2 difference, humanly perceivable difference between the 

### 3 two plans. EPA's plan makes no sense to the consumer 

### 4 that would pay for higher electricity costs which i s 

### 5 unnecessary. To put such a burden on the Arizona 20:21:28 

### 6 economy is not is not only wrong, it's completely 

### 7 unnecessary given that Arizona has proposed to EPA a 

### 8 reasonable Regional Haze Plan that meets all federa l 

### 9 and state laws. 

### 10 In conclusion, the Clean Air Act embodi ed 20:21:28 

### 11 a cooperative approach to protection of air quality , 

### 12 while also allowing states like Arizona to encourage 

### 13 responsible economic development. Arizona's abilit y to 

### 14 regulate and protect its citizens and environment must 

### 15 include the ability to meaningfully take into account 20:21:28 

### 16 real and distinct Arizona circumstances. That's no t 

### 17 just common sense, it happens to also be federal law. 

### 18 EPA should not now second guess Arizona 's 

### 19 reasonable and well-supported regional haze 

### 20 determinations. 20:21:28 

### 21 For these reasons, ACCCE asks EPA 

### 22 Administrator Jackson and Regional Administrator 

### 23 Bloomingfeld to seriously reconsider EPA's proposed 

### 24 Regional Haze Plan for Arizona, instead adopt the 

### 25 Regional Haze Plan submitted and prepared by the St ate 20:21:28

### 102

1 of Arizona. Thank you. 

### 2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mary Kartchner. 

### 3 MS. CARSON: My name is Mary Kartchner. I 

### 4 know I'll have to spell it. It's K-a-r-t-c-h-n-e-r . 

### 5 And I'm here -- I'd like to leave something with you to 20:21:28 

### 6 take up to your superiors. 

### 7 That's a token of something. When I wa s a 

### 8 young girl, I used to love the conservation of nati onal 

### 9 resources with a passion. And because of that love , I 

### 10 was going to go into it in college and everything. And 20:21:28 

### 11 I worked in another state. And with that love I 

### 12 thought I should join the Sierra Club. I started going 

### 13 to that, and went to it for a few months, and I not iced 

### 14 one night when I was walking home that every time I 

### 15 left those meetings, I hated people. I mean, I wasso 20:21:28 

### 16 mad at people and the things they told me, the nast y 

### 17 things people had done, stupid people, and I just hated 

### 18 -- I started hating people. Then one day I thought , 

### 19 wait a minute. I'm a person. I'm one of those people 

### 20 that they hate. You know, am I going to be an animal, 20:21:28 

### 21 a plant or am I going to be a person? 

### 22 And I walked away from the Sierra Club 

### 23 that day and never went back. And I watched the 

### 24 environmental process start from the dust bowl in 

### 25 Oklahoma where it was really needed, swing into tha t 20:21:28

### 103

1 side of the pendulum to what it is now, way over he re, 

### 2 way out of hand, way out of control, in fact, takin g 

### 3 down our country little by little. We see it happe ning 

### 4 every day, and we resent that. 

### 5 I have one minute? Okay. I want to te ll 20:21:28 

### 6 you today that that's a dog dish that I bought on the 

### 7 way over here. My uncle once told me, you start ta king 

### 8 things from the government, they give you a handout , 

### 9 you put it in a dog dish, pretty soon they've got 

### 10 control over you. 20:21:28 

### 11 And you can see this happens when peopl e 

### 12 start taking these government handouts and these 

### 13 government programs. And I just want to say, you c an 

### 14 take that dog dish. I want no part of the governme nt 

### 15 help or regulations. Please take it back and let u s 20:21:28 

### 16 go. 

### 17 THE HEARING OFFICER: The next five 

### 18 speakers are Zach Butler. Michael Lackey. Christi ne 

### 19 Shipper. Larry Bushman. And Mark Flake. 

### 20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'll try and sta rt 20:21:28 

### 21 this -- 

### 22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Just a second, 

### 23 please. Are you Mark Flake? 

### 24 MR. FLAKE: Yes. 

### 25 THE HEARING OFFICER: Is Larry Bushman 20:21:28

### 104

1 here? You may go ahead, Mr. Butler. 

### 2 MR. BUTLER: Okay. My name is Zach But ler 

### 3 I'm a lineman. I work out of Williams, Arizona, an d I 

### 4 have the privilege of being able to work in the Grand 

### 5 Canyon. I travel from here to Jo City to Williams a 20:21:28 

### 6 lot and also to Seligman and the surrounding areas. 

### 7 Our issue tonight that we're talking ab out 

### 8 is about the haze. I really haven't looked into th is 

### 9 up until the last few days, but to my understanding , 

### 10 the processes that are being put in place are to remove 20:21:28 

### 11 five percent of this problem. 

### 12 Today while I was driving, I was in the 

### 13 Grand Canyon today, the south rim. While driving over 

### 14 there, you could look off to the west and see a brown 

### 15 cloud. Not nothing over here driving back towards the 20:21:28 

### 16 area of the State that has power plants in it. 

### 17 California doesn't have coal power plants. The nea rest 

### 18 one to the west would be north of Las Vegas. With a 

### 19 prevailing southwest wind, that one would be the is sue. 

### 20 With as much as I drive back and forth down I-40, l ike 20:21:28 

### 21 I said, the clarity of the air here -- I've been 

### 22 stopped in the last year and a half over seven time s 

### 23 where I've either had to drive hours out of my way to 

### 24 come back to Jo City or stay the night in Flagstaff 

### 25 because of the freeway being closed. 20:21:28

### 105

1 I've also ran into these instances of s uch 

### 2 bad visibility crossing the Navajo rez to work at 

### 3 places like Moenkopi switchyard or near the Four 

### 4 Corners Power Plant. 

### 5 These aren't issues off of generation f rom 20:21:28 

### 6 coal-fired power plants that were stopping the 

### 7 traveling and restricting this and the visibility, this 

### 8 is all dust. This is all on the Navajo rez. This is 

### 9 over-grazing. This is a lot more than five percentof 

### 10 what is in our area. 20:21:28 

### 11 It's easy for some people that, like I 

### 12 mentioned before, depend on government handouts to want 

### 13 to stop people from working and providing for their 

### 14 families so our taxes can be stolen from us and given 

### 15 to other people. Thank you. 20:21:28 

### 16 THE HEARING OFFICER: Michael Lackey. 

### 17 MR. LACKEY: My name is Michael Lackey, 

### 18 l-a-c-k-e-y. I came straight from work here, probably 

### 19 not the Sierra guy who could go home than enjoy the 

### 20 electricity with a hot shower. I came here straight 20:21:28 

### 21 from work where we produce the electricity that he 

### 22 used. I would like to talk first -- I'm not going to 

### 23 rebuttal so much that I listen to these Native 

### 24 Americans talk, I'm not really politically correct, and 

### 25 I'm not known for it, but I listen to them talk about 20:21:28

### 106

1 people that die on the rez. They're going to die 

### 2 anyhow. My father died. My grandfather died. The y 

### 3 died of cancer. I don't live near any power plants . 

### 4 They all ate tomatoes. So everybody that died, 

### 5 tomatoes killed them all. That's what they're 20:21:28 

### 6 thinking. They say, it must have been because of the 

### 7 coal. No. People just die. 

### 8 And then my grandson was told by Doctor 

### 9 Wood, who's a great asthma doctor in Phoenix, to move 

### 10 from Phoenix up to here, to the White Mountains so he 20:21:28 

### 11 wouldn't be stressed with asthma down there. He's up 

### 12 here where he can breathe better. Makes no sense. You 

### 13 can't breathe. You're dying on the rez. You're dy ing 

### 14 over here from the pollution. My grandson gets sen t up 

### 15 here from a better doctor. Doesn't make sense. 20:21:28 

### 16 I got to say that part, because emotion s 

### 17 play a big part in swaying things. And I think 

### 18 emotions, I hope they don't sway you all. I hope r eal 

### 19 facts sway you. 

### 20 And EPA in 2000 -- just in June, 26, you 20:21:28 

### 21 all -- when I say you all, EPA, not you did it per se 

### 22 -- but you shut down four -- they had four lawsuits . 

### 23 That were really 90, they put them in a four class 

### 24 action lawsuits against EPA, against questioning their 

### 25 Clean Air Act from all these big companies. All 90 of 20:21:28

### 107

1 them, although it was down to the four, all got 

### 2 cancelled right away. It was like a knockout punchis 

### 3 what it was for them. 

### 4 I believe personally, and also from the 

### 5 things that I've read, that they're trying to push this 20:21:28 

### 6 agenda through and put citations through for the power 

### 7 plants. They're trying to get them held up in the 

### 8 justice courts where the new president won't be abl e to 

### 9 fight them, because it will be in the justice 

### 10 department if the new president isn't Obama. If itis 20:21:28 

### 11 Obama, he's going to bankrupt us just like he said in 

### 12 his 2008 predictions. The coal-fired plant closing s 

### 13 will become reality. This ruin coal strategy assumes 

### 14 three independent events will occur: The Court 

### 15 challenges against the EPA will stop. The Democrat s in 20:21:28 

### 16 Congress will still remain spineless. And Obama is 

### 17 re-elected. 

### 18 The courts will determine the first thi ng. 

### 19 But our votes as Americans in three months from now 

### 20 will make sure that this doesn't happen. You all were 20:21:28 

### 21 elected by us, and you're going to find things wron g as 

### 22 you can as often as you can, because you depend on 

### 23 wrong things to keep you in business. You are just 

### 24 like climate control business. If you don't find 

### 25 something wrong, you don't have a job. What can you 20:21:28

### 108

1 do? You say, oh, everything is perfect. It's not 

### 2 perfect. But it's great we're going to keep on 

### 3 working. As long as you can find something wrong and 

### 4 pass a law, you got a job. We're going to keep pay ing 

### 5 you. We're not paying you because we want to. We' re 20:21:28 

### 6 forced to pay you, and that's just the way it is. 

### 7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mike Flake. 

### 8 MR. FLAKE: My family came to this area 

### 9 long before this was the United States of America. We 

### 10 came to exercise our freedom of religion. We came to 20:21:28 

### 11 get out from under the suppression of the governmen t. 

### 12 The majority of the people here tonight 

### 13 are here because they love this land. They love li ving 

### 14 in this area. We're satisfied with the pollutants that 

### 15 we're getting. We have watched over the years the 20:21:28 

### 16 federal government and environmental groups destroya 

### 17 thriving logging industry in our area. 

### 18 We've -- under the EPA and environmenta l 

### 19 control agencies, we've watched our forest burn as has 

### 20 been mentioned earlier. And once again, the most 20:21:28 

### 21 catastrophic fires that I believe were a direct res ult 

### 22 of the Environmental Protection Agency and other 

### 23 environmental groups created many, many more pollut ants 

### 24 than will ever be emitted by the power plants that are 

### 25 in jeopardy right now. 20:21:28

### 109

1 The -- it's been mentioned in six month s 

### 2 -- or in six weeks the paper mill over here in 

### 3 Snowflake will be closed as a direct result of 

### 4 government regulations. It's sucking the lifebloodout 

### 5 of our community, and now you're back here for more . 20:21:28 

### 6 The State of Arizona is very capable of 

### 7 taking care of our citizens and our air quality. And 

### 8 I'm not going to be diplomatic about this. If you want 

### 9 a place to start cleaning up, let it be Washington, DC 

### 10 and San Francisco. 20:21:28 

### 11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let me double che ck 

### 12 that the speakers that may have left are not here. 

### 13 Glen Lee? Lawrence Pena? Kristen Shaffer? Larry 

### 14 Bushman? Those are all the people that signed spea ker 

### 15 cards. Is there anyone else that wants to speak that 20:21:28 

### 16 hasn't spoken? 

### 17 MR. THOMPSON: Good evening. My name i s 

### 18 Jessie Thompson. I am presently serving as a Navaj o 

### 19 County Supervisor. And I had the opportunity to li sten 

### 20 to everyone here today, and I have my chairman J.R. 20:21:28 

### 21 that made a presentation. And one of the things that 

### 22 I'd like to remind everybody is that this is a hear ing, 

### 23 and that's why you are here. So every person, you have 

### 24 come here to listen to everybody, not to certain on es. 

### 25 And those are the people that signed up, so, theref ore, 20:21:28

### 110

1 we need to be respectful and be responsible in whatwe 

### 2 say and how we treat other people's comments. 

### 3 And a lot of good information has come up 

### 4 from the public. So if there's any particular ques tion 

### 5 that you're still not sure of, do the research on i t, 20:21:28 

### 6 go into it. And that's what I'm asking you, to make 

### 7 sure that every comment that has been made here is 

### 8 considered again. 

### 9 Thank you very much for being here toda y. 

### 10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. 20:21:28 

### 11 MR. SEYMORE: Thank you. I'm Daryl 

### 12 Seymore. I'm mayor of the City of Show Low. My fa ther 

### 13 also built with my uncle who started the first powe r 

### 14 plant in Joseph City and poured that concrete. Whe n 

### 15 they built that plant they probably didn't realize the 20:21:28 

### 16 by-product that would come from coal burning. That 's 

### 17 the fly ash. Another one of our national resourcesis 

### 18 limestone and it has a scarcity, as well. Because of 

### 19 the fly ash, we probably can put 30 to 40 percent w ith 

### 20 concrete and that will lengthen the life of limesto ne 20:21:28 

### 21 in this country. It's one thing that hasn't been 

### 22 mentioned tonight. I hope that you will take that into 

### 23 consideration, the byproducts that come off of coal . 

### 24 Thank you. 

### 25 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think this willbe 20:21:28

### 111

1 our last one. 

### 2 MR. MARTINEA: My name is Kevin Martine a, 

### 3 spelled M-a-r-t-i-n-e-a. 

### 4 I actually work in the P.V. Collar syst em. 

### 5 I do that for a living. And I'm a proponent as wel l of 20:21:28 

### 6 all the kinds of energy that we can take. I just 

### 7 wanted you guys to think about the other alternatives. 

### 8 You guys say that -- of course, by you guys, I don' t 

### 9 mean you guys, sorry, your bosses and everything el se. 

### 10 I'm a little nervous doing this. But there's a bio fuel 20:21:28 

### 11 company out there called Joule Unlimited. They take 

### 12 CO-2, water, and sunlight, and then genetically 

### 13 engineered a plant that secretes diesel fuel. On o ne 

### 14 acre of land they can produced 15,000 barrels of oi l 

### 15 each year. And they are perfect candidates for pla ces 20:21:28 

### 16 like Cholla power plant or all the surrounding powe r 

### 17 plants. There's no reason why for 800 million inst ead 

### 18 of 400 million, we can't build a plant here and cre ate 

### 19 oil and create new jobs, help the economy, help 

### 20 everybody here that has problems, and at the same t ime 20:21:28 

### 21 clean up the environment. 

### 22 Now if you're still wondering what Joul e 

### 23 Unlimited is, look it up. They're not the only one s 

### 24 out there. It is something that's happening in New 

### 25 Mexico right now. They're building their first 20:21:28

### 112

1 commercial plant. 

### 2 I just think you guys are going at it the 

### 3 wrong way. You're trying to retrofit with a modifi ed 

### 4 muffler. That's not going to solve the problem. 

### 5 If you want to help, you look at real 20:21:28 

### 6 technology, not some -- not trading your 2004 Priusfor 

### 7 your 2005 Prius. It's not going to make a differen ce. 

### 8 It's the same car. It just costs you more money. 

### 9 Doesn't make sense. Thank you. 

### 10 THE HEARING OFFICER: If there are no 20:21:28 

### 11 further comments, then we'll conclude this public 

### 12 hearing. As a reminder, the period for written pub lic 

### 13 comment remains open until September 18, 2012. 

### 14 Thank you all for coming and participat ing 

### 15 in this public hearing. EPA appreciates you takingthe 20:21:28 

### 16 time to participate in the public hearing process. 

### 17 This public hearing is now closed. 

### 18 (The hearing concluded at 9:33 p.m.) 

### 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

### 113

1 2 3 4 5 C E R T I F I C A T E 

### 6 7 I, Josie Roper, Registered Professional Reporte r, 

### 8 in and for the State of Arizona, do hereby certify that 

### 9 I was present at the foregoing public hearing; thatI 

### 10 took down in shorthand all the proceedings had and oral 

### 11 testimony adduced; that the same has been transcrib ed 

### 12 by me; and the foregoing pages constitute a full, t rue, 

### 13 and accurate transcription of my shorthand notes ta ken 

### 14 aforesaid. All done to the best of my knowledge, 

### 15 skill, and ability. 

### 16 Dated this 20th day of August, 2012. 

### 17 18 19 ____________________________ 

### 20 Josie Roper, RPR, CR # 50511 

### 21 22 23 24 25