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1 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

2 MR . EMERSON : I think where we 

3 left yesterday was we finished the direct and 

4 cross-examination of Mr. Fabian and the 

5 government wanted to call Mr. Gehring as a 

6 rebuttal witness. 

7 MR. LOMAZOW: Well, let me just --

8 I'm not going to call Inspector,Gehring as a 

9 rebuttal yet. So I would say if you have any 

10 other witnesses to call --

11 JUDGE GOODWlN: Are we at the 

12 point that -- you rested. 

13 MR. LOMAZOW: Uh-huh, yes. 

14 JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. Emerson, you 

15 were presenting your case in chief. So have 

16 you concluded your case in chief? 

17 MR. EMERSON: Yes, Your Honor. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: Now, before we get 

19 further, I'm going to do this for each of you. 

20 For the FAA I have admitted 

21 Exhibits 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I do not have 6 

22 admitted. That's the Standard Practice 8400 

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1 dated February 25, '08. 

2 MR. LOMAZOW: Your Honor, I move 

3 to what has been marked as C-6 for 

4 identification I move that into evidence as 

5 C-6. 

6 JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. Emerson? 

7 MR. EMERSON: No objection. 

8 JUDGE GOODWIN : Okay. C-6 for 

9 identification is received into evidence as 

10 Complainant 6. I'm having to get used to the 

11 months being two digits now, not one digit. 

12 (EXHIBIT NO. C-6 WAS RECEIVED.) 

13 JUDGE GOODWIN: I have with 

14 respect to Exhibit 7 admitted is page 1 of 18, 

15 which is the aircraft log -- well, the easiest 

16 way to do it, it starts at 15,965 cycles ends 

17 at 15,965 cycles; page 10 which is aircraft 

18 log, again this one starts at 15,965 cycles, 

19 ends at 15,971 cycles; and finally page 17 of 

20 18 also an aircraft log, which starts at 

21 15,971 and ends at 15,972. None of the other 

22 exhibits were admitted. 

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1 MR. LOMAZOW: Your Honor, I think 

2 -- do you have C-10? 

3 JUDGE GOODWIN: I'm not there yet . 

4 MR. LOMAZOW: Oh, sorry. 

5 JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. Emerson, you 

6 need to work on his mathematics. 

7 Exhibit 8 I have marked for 

8 identification has not been proffered. 

9 Exhibit 9 is marked for identification, has 

10 not been offered. Exhibit 10 we discussed it 

11 hasn't been offered. Exhibit 11 I will take 

12 judicial notice of. 

13 MR. LOMAZOW: Your Honor, what has 

14 previously been marked as C-10 for purposes of 

15 identification the complaint moves into 

16 evidence as C-10. 

17 MR. EMERSON: No objection. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: Complainant's 10 

19 for identification is received in evidence as 

20 complainant's 10. 

21 (EXHIBIT NO. C-10 WAS RECEIVED.) 

22 JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. Emerson, with 

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1 respect to the Respondent I have Respondent's 

2 1 which is the aircraft maintenance log dated 

3 5/30/10 consisting of eight pages has been 

4 marked for identification but not received. 

5 The MEL dated 6/29/2011 

6 MR. EMERSON: Your Honor, before 

7 we move on to the next exhibit, SkyWest offers 

8 Exhibit R-1 into evidence. 

9 JUDGE GOODWIN: Counsel? 

10 MR. LOMAZOW: No objection. 

11 JUDGE GOODWIN: Respondent's 1 for 

12 identification is received into evidence as 

13 Respondent's 1. 

14 The MEL dated 6/29/2011 had been 

15 offered, there had been an objection, and I 

16 reserved on that. I don't remember why. The 

17 resume which is Exhibit Respondent's 3 for 

18 identification has been received into evidence 

19 as Respondent's 3. 

20 Respondent's 4 which is the 

21 Standard Practice 8600 dated 10/16/2009 has 

22 been identified but not offered. 

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1 MR. EMERSON: SkyWest offers 

2 Exhibit 4 into evidence. 

3 MR. LOMAZOW: No objection. 

4 JUDGE GOODWIN: Respondent' s 4 for 

5 identification is received into evidence as 

6 Respondent's 4. 

7 (EXHIBIT NO. R-4 WAS RECEIVED.) 

8 JUDGE GOODWIN: And Respondent's 5 

9 which is Standard Practice 7555 dated 

10 5/12/2010 has been marked for identification 

11 but not received . 

12 MR. EMERSON: SkyWest offers R-5. 

13 MR. LOMAZOW: No objection. 

14 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

15 (EXHIBIT NO. R-5 WAS RECEIVED.) 

16 JUDGE GOODWIN: And I would note 

17 on page 1 of Exhibit 1 there's some 

18 highlighting which the Court will ignore, 

19 specifically the discrepancy is highlighted 

20 and the corrective action is highlighted in 

21 Discrepancy 1. 

22 The Court will ignore anything 

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1 that's and I bring that up because on 

2 Exhibit 2 a paragraph in the operation's 

3 procedure, the second sentence in that 

4 paragraph which begins, "Advance the thrust 

5 levers" ending in "flight crew will," that's 

6 been circled in ink, and the Court will ignore 

7 that. 

8 And on Exhibit 4 there's several 

9 ballpoint markings which will be ignored. And 

10 on Exhibit 5 at 169 there's some bracketing 

11 around 169 and AFM is circled, and the Court 

12 will ignore that. 

13 Refresh my memory on why we 

14 reserved as to the MEL. 

15 MR . LOMAZOW: Your Honor, I'm 

16 going to withdraw that objection and I will 

17 not object. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: All right. So 

19 yesterday the Respondent moved Respondent's 2 

20 for identification into evidence. Objection 

21 having been withdrawn, Respondent's 2 for 

22 identification will be received in evidence as 

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1 Respondent's 2. 

2 (EXHIBIT NO. R-2 WAS RECEIVED.) 

3 JUDGE GOODWIN: Now, does that 

4 conclude the Respondent's case in chief? 

5 MR. EMERSON: It does, Your Honor. 

6 JUDGE GOODWIN: The FAA wish to 

7 recall any witnesses? 

8 MR . LOMAZOW : Yes, Your Honor. 

9 The FAA would like to recall Inspector 

10 Gehring. 

11 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. Mr. 

12 Gehring, I'm going to remind you that you're 

13 still under oath. 

14 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 

15 JUDGE GOODWIN: Counsel. 

16 MR. LOMAZOW: Your Honor, should I 

17 stand? Should I sit? 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: That's fine, as 

19 long as the court reporter can pick you up. 

20 MR. LOMAZOW: Okay. 

21 WENDELL "SKEETER" GEHRING, 

22 called as a witness, being previously duly 

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1 sworn, was examined and testified as 

2 follows: 

3 DIRECT EXAMINATION 

4 BY MR. LOMAZOW: 

5 Q Inspector Gehring, during your 

6 investigation did anyone from in your 

7 communications with SkyWest, did anyone tell 

8 you that they used anything other than the QRH 

9 to maintenance this discrepancy? 

10 A No, sir. 

11 JUDGE GOODWIN: I would sit in 

12 such a manner that she can hear you. As they 

13 used to say, Counsel doesn't care whether he 

14 can hear you. What he cares is if the court 

15 reporter can hear you. 

16 MR. LOMAZOW: Absolutely. 

17 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. 

18 Q (By MR. LOMAZOW) All right. 

19 Inspector Gehring, please turn to what is 

20 marked as C-8 for identification. Do you 

21 recognize this document? 

22 A Yes, sir. This is the letter of 

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1 investigation that was sent to SkyWest when I 

2 started the investigation. 

3 Q Who sent this letter to SkyWest? 

4 A I did. 

5 Q Who drafted this letter? 

6 A I did. 

7 MR. LOMAZOW: Okay. Your Honor, I 

8 offer what's been marked as C-8 for purposes 

9 of identification into evidence as C-8. 

10 MR. EMERSON: No objection. 

11 Q (By MR. LOMAZOW) Please turn to 

12 what is marked as C-9 for identification. 

13 JUDGE GOODWIN: Complainant's 8 

14 for identification is received into evidence 

15 as Complainant's 8. 

16 (EXHIBIT NO. C-8 WAS RECEIVED.) 

17 Q (By MR. LOMAZOW) Do you recognize 

18 this document? 

19 A Yes, I do. 

20 Q And what is this document? 

21 A This is the response to the letter 

22 of investigation that I sent from SkyWest . 

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1 Q Okay. And who responded? 

2 A Gary Goodman. 

3 Q And what is his title? 

4 A He's the director of quality for 

5 SkyWest. 

6 MR. LOMAZOW: Your Honor, I move 

7 what is marked as C-9 for purposes of 

8 identification into evidence as C9. 

9 MR. EMERSON: No objection. 

10 JUDGE GOODWIN: Complainant's 9 

11 for identification is received into evidence 

12 as Complainant's 9. 

13 (EXHIBIT NO. C-9 WAS RECEIVED.) 

14 Q (By MR. LOMAZOW) Inspector 

15 Gehring, in the response did SkyWest indicate 

16 if they used any other manual other than the 

17 QRH? 

18 A No, sir. 

19 Q Please give the Court a brief 

20 summary of this response. 

21 MR . EMERSON: Objection. The 

22 document speaks for itself. 

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1 JUDGE GOODWIN: Sustained. 

2 Q (By MR. LOMAZOW) Based on your 

3 opinion was any significant corrective action 

4 taken in this response by SkyWest? 

5 A No, sir. 

6 Q Inspector Gehring, I'm going to 

7 show you Respondent's -- what has been entered 

8 as Respondent's No. 4 which is Standard 

9 Practice 8600. Please read along with me in 

10 No. 2 . "Once the QRH procedure, if 

11 applicable, is accomplished, the PIC refers to 

12 the MEL, CDL, NEF to make the following 

13 decision." Now, what does that mean? 

14 A That during a flight that the 

15 flight crew will refer to those based on the 

16 information that the airplane has told them, 

17 sir. 

18 Q Okay. Does that -- the use of the 

19 word "QRH" there, does that mean it ' s proper 

20 for maintenance? 

21 A No, sir. This is something that 

22 the pilot in command -- PIC stands for pilot 

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1 in command. 

2 Q Okay. 

3 A And the pilot in command uses the 

4 QRH. That is one of the pilot's manuals. 

5 Q Based on --

6 A So the statement is correct. 

7 Q Based on this language, could the 

8 SkyWest maintenance worker here, Joshua 

9 Harmon, have used this to maintenance this 

10 discrepancy? 

11 A No, sir. 

12 Q Based on in your opinion, based 

13 on SkyWest's General Maintenance Manual, can 

14 a mechanic use a manual outside of the General 

15 Maintenance Manual under certain situations? 

16 MR. EMERSON: Objection. Asked 

17 and answered. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: The Court's 

19 judgment call. I'll overrule it at this 

20 point. 

21 Q (By MR. LOMAZOW) Please answer. 

22 A I can answer? 

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1 Q Yeah. If you'd like me to repeat 

2 the question, I can repeat it. 

3 A Yeah, repeat the question. I got 

4 lost in there, sir. 

5 Q Sure. Can a maintenance -- can a 

6 SkyWest maintenance worker use a manual 

7 outside of their General Maintenance Manual 

8 under certain situations? 

9 A No, sir. 

10 Q Okay. Inspector Gehring, please 

11 turn to in the witness copy what is marked as 

12 C3, which has been entered into evidence as 

13 C3, which is the Fault Isolation Manual. In 

14 order -- would you agree with the statement 

15 that in order to correct the discrepancy at 

16 issue here the Fault Isolation Manual would 

17 lead you in a circle? 

18 A No, sir. 

19 Q And why not? 

20 A The Fault Isolation Manual 

21 provides the logic to separate out the 

22 individual components of the system that would 

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1 set the left or right pack high pressure 

2 messages for either side. 

3 Q Inspector Gehring, is there any 

4 difference between line maintenance and heavy 

5 maintenance in regards to following the 

6 General Maintenance Manual? 

7 A No, sir. The manuals for the 

8 aircraft are the manuals for the aircraft 

9 whether you work the line or whether you work 

10 heavy maintenance or if you're a contractor 

11 working maintenance. You have to follow the 

12 manual. It don't make a difference. 

13 MR. LOMAZOW: No further questions 

14 for this witness. 

15 JUDGE GOODWIN: Cross? 

16 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. EMERSON: 

17 Q Mr. Gehring, would you turn back 

18 to Exhibit R-4, please? 

19 JUDGE GOODWIN: I'm sorry. You 

20 said R-4? 

21 MR. EMERSON: R-4. I'm subdued 

22 this morning, Your Honor. 

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1 JUDGE GOODWIN: That won't last 

2 long. 

3 MR. EMERSON: Get a little more 

4 energy. 

5 Q (By MR. LOMAZOW) Mr. Gehring, do 

6 you recognize this document R-4? 

7 A Yes. 

8 Q Standard Practice 8600. 

9 A 8600. 

10 Q Is this part of the SkyWest 

11 maintenance manual? 

12 A Yes. This is part of the SkyWest 

13 GMM, sir. 

14 MR. EMERSON: No further 

15 questions. 

16 JUDGE GOODWIN: Finished with this 

17 witness? 

18 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes, Your Honor. 

19 JUDGE GOODWIN: Again, I'm going 

20 to instruct you, Mr. Gehring, not to discuss 

21 your testimony with anybody prior to the 

22 conclusion of the hearing . 

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1 Does that conclude all the 

2 evidence and testimony in this case? 

3 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes. 

4 MR. EMERSON: All done. 

5 MR. LOMAZOW: All done. 

6 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. As I 

7 indicated yesterday I know this is 

8 repetitious -- what I'm going to ask you to do 

9 is once you get the transcript if you'll call 

10 Mr. Emerson. You two work out a briefing 

11 schedule. I don't have any immediate plans to 

12 retire. Five years would be a little long, I 

13 think. But seriously work something out that 

14 works for you given that you both have trial 

15 schedules and you both have -- you have other 

16 cases going on and the holidays are coming up. 

17 If you run into a problem, let Mr. 

18 Liebowitz know as it will bump it out. Once 

19 you work out a schedule, shoot me an order. 

20 I'll sign it and issue it. We'll go from 

21 there. And it will -- my educated guess it 

22 will be every bit of three weeks before you 

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1 see the transcript. 

2 MR. LOMAZOW: Okay. 

3 JUDGE GOODWIN: And it has to do 

4 with the mechanics. The transcript goes to 

5 headquarters and it takes a while for them to 

6 get it to the field. 

7 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes, Your Honor. 

8 JUDGE GOODWIN: All right. So 

9 hearing nothing further, we'll go off the 

10 record. 

11 (End of proceedings at 9:14a.m.) 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

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• Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 
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268 

C E R T I F I C A T E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Skywest Airlines 

Before: US DOT/FAA 

Date: 10-02-12 

Place: Salt Lake City, UT 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

(202) 234-4433 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

• 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

WASHINGTON, DC 

~----------------------~ 

IN THE MATTER OF FDMS No. 

FAA-2011-0782 

SKYWEST AIRLINES 

~------------------~---~ 

Tueday 

October 2, 2012 

Frank E. Moss Courthouse 

350 South Main Street 

Salt Lake City, Utah 84101 

The above-entitled matter came on for hearing, 

pursuant to notice, at 1:00 p.m. 

BEFORE: 

Richard C. Goodwin 

Administrative Law Judge 

RECEIVED 

OCT 1 9 2012 

HEARING DOCKET 

NEAL R. GROSS 

243 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

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244 

APPEARANCES 

FOR THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: 

KYLE LOMAZOW, ESQ 

OFFICE OF REGIONAL COUNSEL 

1601 Lind Avenue Southwest 

Renton, Washington 98057-3356 

425.227.1847 

kyle.lomazow®faa.gov 

FOR SKYWEST AIRLINES: 

TODD C. EMERSON, ESQ. 

SKYWEST AIRLINES GENERAL COUNSEL 

444 South River Road 

St. George, Utah 84790 

435.634.3530 

temerson®skywest.com 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

• 

245 

CONTENTS 

WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 

WENDELL GEHRING 254 260 

E X H I B I T S 

COMPLAINANT 

C-6 Aircraft Airworthiness Release 

Standard Practice 8400 . . 248 

C-8 6/21/10 Gehring Letter to SkyWest 

Regarding 5/30/10 Occurrence . . 255 

C-9 7/15/10 Goodman Letter Responding 

to Gehring . . . . 256 

C-10 Vol. 2 Quick Reference 

Handbook B Engine 249 

RESPONDENT 

R-2 MEL CL-600-2B19 . . . . . 253 

R-4 10/16/09 Standard Practice 

8600 . . . . . . . . . . 251 

R-5 5/12/10 Standard Practice 

7555 . . . . . . . . 251 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

• 

246 

1 P R 0 C E E D I N G S 

2 JUDGE GOODWIN: Counsel, yesterday 

3 I'm not sure that we reached the conclusion of 

4 the case, but I wanted to give you both the 

5 opportunity to pick up where we left off 

6 yesterday. Any witnesses? 

7 MR. EMERSON: Before you get into 

8 this case, Your Honor, there's, you know, 

9 additional SkyWest cases coming up today. 

10 JUDGE GOODWIN: Right. 

11 MR. LOMAZOW : Mr. Dworkin and 

12 SkyWest are prepared to proceed at 10:00 this 

13 morning. 

14 JUDGE GOODWIN: That works. 

15 MR. EMERSON: Does that work? 

16 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yeah. 

17 Okay. Now, in this case I have --

18 MR. EMERSON: We've also made the 

19 copies of the exhibits --

20 JUDGE GOODWIN: Right. 

21 MR. EMERSON: and provided them 

22 to counsel and to you, Your Honor. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com