ED 200 762

AUTHOR

TITLE

INSTITUTION

PUB DATE

NOTE

AVAILABLE FRO:

DOCUMENT RESUME

CE 0213 577

Butler, Eric Payne: Darr, James

Research on Youth Employment anti Employability

Development. Educator and Employer Perspeztives.

Youth Knowledge Development Report 2.16.

Employment and Training Administration (DOL),

Washington, D.C. Office of Youth Programs.

Nay 80

58p.: For related documents see CE 028 578-579.

Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing

Office, Washington, D.C. 20402 (Stock No.:

029-014-00139-2, S3.75).

EDRS PRICE MF01/PC03 Plus Postage.

DESCRIPTORS Adolescents: *Educational Neeisn Education Work

Relationship: *Employer Attitudes: *Employment

Patterns: Employment Potential: *Employment

Practices: Employment Qualifications: Futures (of

Societ y1: Job Development: Job Skills: Job Training:

Labor Needs: Policy: Policy Formation: Skill

Development: *Teacher Attitudes: *Youth Employment:

Youth Opportunities: Youth Problems: Youth

Programs

IDENTIFIERS Youth Perspectives Project

ABSTRACT

A series of roundtable discussions, designed to bring

together employers and educators in small and informal sessions to

discuss youth employment and related issues, was held in Birmingham,

Hartford, Los Angeles, Houston, and CLicago. The discussions yielded

policy implications in five major areas. These ara access to the

private sector, educational strategies and institutions, supportive

services, public job creation, and management. Roundtable

participants also commented on nine issues relating to the policies

of business and education/human-services groups. These issues were

(1) hiring practices, (2) major barriers to hiring more youth, (3)

special career and vocational needs of minority students, (4)

employer contacts with local Comprehensive Employment and Training

Act offices, (5) the projected performance of Youth Education and

Development Act-fostered relationships, (6) changes in work force

needs in the next five years, (7) education and job training programs

for youth, (B) facilitating cooperation between educational

institutions and the private sector, and (9) the role of the federal

government in helping industry hire more youth. The format and

approach of the roundtables was also discussed. (Related reports on

youth employment policies and programs for the 1980s and youth

perspectives on youth employment ara available separately through

ERIC--see note.) (MN)

******** ************ ** ***************** *** ***** *** Reproductions supplied by EDRS are the best that can be made

from the original document.

************ ************************************** *_
U S Department of Labor

Ray Marshall. Secretary

Employment and Training Administration

Ernest G. Green. Assistant Secretary for

Employment and Training Administration

Office of Youth Programs

Material contained in this publication is

in the public domain and may be

reproduced, fully or partially. without

permission of the Federal Government.

Source credit is requested but not

required. Permission is required only

to reproduce any copyrighted material

contained herein.
YOUTH KNOWLEDGEMENT DEVELOPMENT REPORT 2.16

EDUCATOR AND EMPLOYER PERSPECTIVES

Eric Payne Butler

James Darr

Center for Public Service

Brandeis University

May 1980

For sale by the Superintendent of Documeuta, ti. S nment Printing Office Washington. D.C. 20402
OVERVIEW

In the school-to-work transition process, employment and training

programs are a bridge between educators and employers. The education

system has been criticized for its insularity and failure to adequately

prepare youth for work. Employers, on the other hand, have not generally

played an active role in the education process. Dialogue is needed to

increase mutual understanding in order to improve preparation and

transition of youth.

Under the auspices of the Vice President's Task Force on Youth

Employment, through the support of the Youth Employment and Demonstration

Projects Act, a series of five roundtables were held in Birmingham,

Hartford, Los Angeles, Houston, and Chicago, to bring together employers

and educators in small and informal sessions to discuss youth- employment

and related issues. This report summarizes these roundtable discussions.

While the interchange does not support statistically reliable generalizations, two basic themes are repeated:

o Almost every job requires_ fuodamental readin and writing_ skills.

There is a erce tion amon em lo ers that the outh now seeking mobs are

less prepared in basic skil s than those e ast. ____Itty_consisttatLy

line_more env asis on, asic education.

o Moyers want youth who have been taught or have had -work experi_=

ence_ -from which the = have learned to show on time and to fmw instrucons. Vocatlona ski s -aintn- is iv l ttle emphasis since this can

be ac u red once t e outh is e These, as well as other perspectives expressed on a variety of

subjects by educators and private employers, are important for the

employment and training system in its role as an i ntermediary. These views

can provide useful background for prime sponsors and subagents who must

deal with the local education system and certainly with local employers.

This study is one of "knowledge development" activities mounted in

conjunction with research, evaluation and development activities funded

under the Youth Employment and Demonstration Projects Act of 1977. The

knowledge development effort will result in literally thousands of written

products. Each activity has been structured from the outset so that it is

sOf-standing but also interrelated with a host of other activities. The

framework is presented in A Knowledge Development Plan for the louthEmployment and Demonstration Projects Act of 1977- fi:knovitidge Develoomat

Plan for the YO4th Initiatives FfiEYTB79 and CompletiniQ the Youth A-enda:

A Plan for 09wled eDevero e-t Dissemination and A lication for Fiscal

1980.

Information is available or will be coming available from these

various knowledge development efforts to help resolve an almost limitless

array of issues. However, policy and practical application will usually

require integration and synthesis from a wide range of products, which, in

turn, depend on knowledge and availability of these products. A major

shortcoming of past research, evaluation and demonstration activities has
been the failure to organize and disseminate the products adequately to

assure the full exploitation of the findings. The magnitude and structure

of the youth knowledge development effort puts a premium on structured

analysis and wide dissemination.

As part of its knowledge development mandate, therefore, the Office of

Youth Programs of the Department of Labor will organize, publish and

disseminate the written products of all major research, evaluation and

demonstration activities supported directly by or mounted in conjunction

with OYP knowledge development efforts. Some of the same products may also

be published and disseminated through other channels, but they will be

included in the structured series of Youth Knowledge Development Re orts in

order to facilitate access and integration.

The Youth Knowiedge_Delelopment Reports, of which this is one, are

divided into twelve broad categories:

1. Knowledge_ Development Framework: The products in this category

are concerne Wit_t-e structure o nowledge development activities, the

assessment methodologies which are employed, the measurement instruments

and their validation, the translation of knowledge into policy, and the

strategy for dissemination of findings.

2. Research _on Youth Cm rent and_EmployailttzlEtiopmell: The

products in this category represent analyses of existing data, presentation

of findings from new data sources, special studies of dimensions of youth

labor market problems, and policy issue assessments.

3. L2gram Evaluations: The products in this category include

impact, process and benefit -cost evaluations of youth programs including

the Summer Youth Employment Program, Job Corps, the Young Adult Conservation Corps, Youth Employment and Training Programs, Youth Community

Conservation and Improvement Projects, and the Targeted Jobs Tax Credit.

4. Service and Participant Mix: The evaluations and demonstrations

summarized in this category concern the matching of different types of

youth with different service combinations. This involves experiments with

work vs. work plus remediation vs. straight remediation as treatment

options. It also includes attempts to mix disadvantaged and more affluent

participants, as well as youth with older workers.

S. Education and Trainin A''roaches: The products in this category

present the fin_ings of structured experiments to test the impact and

effectivener,s of various education and vocational training approaches

including specific education methodologies for the disadvantaged, alternative education approaches and advanced career training.

6. Pre-Em lo ent and Transition Services_: The products in this

category present t e findings of structured experiments to test the impact

and effectiveness of sch 11-to-work transition activities, vocational

exploration, job-search assistance and other efforts to better prepare

youth for labor market success.

ii
7. Youth Work Ex erience: The products in this category address the

organization of work activities, their output, productive roles for youth,

and the impacts of various employment approaches.

8. Implementation Issues: This category includes cross-cutting

analyses of the practical lessons concerning "how-to-do-it." Issues such

as learning__curves, replication processes and programmatic "batting

averages" will be addressed under this category, as well as the comparative

advantages of alternative delivery agents.

9. Desi n and Or anizationel Alternatives_: The products in this

category represent assessments of demonstrations of alternative program and

delivery arrangements such as consolidation, year-round preparation for

summer programs, the use of incentives, and multi-year tracking of

individuals.

10. Special Needs Groups: The products in this category present

findings on the Special problem of and the programmatic adaptations needed

for significant segments including minorities, young mothers, troubled

youth, Indochinese refugees, and the handicapped.

11. Innovative Approaches: The products in this category present the

findings of those activities designed to explore new approaches. The

subjects covered include the Youth Incentive Entitlement Pilot Projects,

private sector initiatives, the national youth service experiment, and

energy initiatives in weatherization, low-head hydroelectric dam restoration, windpower, and the like.

12. Instttutional_Linkages: The products in this category include

studies ofinstitaional arrangements and linkages as well as assessments

of demonstration activities to encourage such linkages with education,

volunteer groups, drug abuse, and other youth serving agencies.

In each of these knowledge development categories, there will be a

range of discrete demonstration, research and evaluation activities focused

on different policy, program and analytical issues. In turn, each discrete

knowledge development project may have _a series of written products

addressed to different dimensions of the issue. For instance, all

experimental demonstration projects have both process and impact evaluations, frequently undertaken by different evaluation agents. Findings

will be published as they become available so that there will usually be a

series of reports as evidence accumulates. To organize these products,

each publication is classified _in one of the twelve broad knowledge

development categories, described in terms of the more specific issue,

activity or cluster of activities to which it is addressed, with an

identifier of the product and what it represents relative to other products

in the demonstrations. Hence, the multiple products under a knowledge

development activity are closely interrelated and the activites in each

broad cluster have significant interconnections.

This volume should be assessed in conjunction with Youth_ Perspectives--The Live _Behind the Statistics and Youth Perpectives-_-Surveys of

Youth in yo0)--peoPti-expreii their 1110417as about both private dyers and the schools. The three volumes in Linkages Between the

iii

I. I
Education and Em d o ent and Traintn ems in the "inst4tutional

inkage category provides more information about the nature of the school

systems,

Robert Taggart

Administrator

Office of Youth Programs
CONTENTS

Overview

Introduction

Implications for Policy

Response to the Agenda

Format and Approach
Introduction

In March 1979, President Carter asked Vice President Mondale to head

a Task Force to review all federal programs which directly or indirectly

affect youth. This review, described by the New York Times as the "most

comprehensive ever undertaken by the federal government", was aimed at

analyzing an array of past and present federal youth efforts i

tion for developing a new federal youth policy for the 1980's.

prepareThe Vice President's Task Force on Youth Employment formulated an

ambitious agenda of analysis, documentation, review, and consultation,

all of which would culminate, in mid-October, with a Presidential Review

Memorandum. The PRM, as it is known, would sumaitarize state of the art

research and program experience and make recommendations for future policy.

Most of the Task Force's work has focused on its review of programs and

research, but from the beginning, there was a belief in the need to consult, as well, with people "in the classrooms and workplaces" who are directly involved with youth.

Part of this outreach effort was predicated on the fact that the Youth

Employment and Demonstration Projects Act of 1977 (YEDPA), through which

much of the current federal initiative has been funded, is still in the

course of implementation with the result that many of its most interesting

ventures have not yet been evaluated or analyzed. There was also a recognition that many of the issues of concern to educators, private employers,

and community agencies cannot be fully described through any single federal

program.

In order to learn the views and needs

Force conceived a variety of conferences,

with different target groups and different

of "practitioners", the Task

eminars, and roundtables, each

goals. Weekly seminars for

Task Force members were held in Washington from April through July. These

seminars brought together distinguished researchers, ccademicians, and
2

practitioners who reported on what they have learned from years of youth

employment experience. Several major conferences were held (in Breakenridge,

Kentucky; Oakland; Boston; and Little Rock) climaxing in a large conference

in Baltimore with the theme--"Workplaces and Classrooms A Partnership for

the BO's".

The Education - Private Sector Roundtables were developed as part cf the

Task Force's outreach activities. They were designed as an intimate, informal mechanism through which those in business and education concerned

with the employment of youth could meet and express their views directly

to the Task Force. Five Roundtables, each focused on a single city, were

conducted during July and August in Birmingham, Hartford, Los Angeles,

Houston, and Chicago. They were planned and implemented by the Task Force

through the Center for Public Service at Brandeis University, The Center

for Public Service has produced Reports on the individual cities as well

as this summary Report on the overall Roundtable experience.

This Final Report summarizes the Roundtables but it does not substitute for the individual "City Reports". For more detailed information on

the events in each city, the latter should be consulted. The Final Report

has four sections:

"Implications for Policy" which analyzes the

Roundtables for themes relevant to five topics

of concern tothe Task Force;

II. "Response to the Agenda" which itemizes the

major comments from the five cities on each

of nine Agenda questions;

"Format and Approach" which describes how the

Roundtables were organized and draws some

conclusions about the usefulness of this

technique;

IV. An "Appendix" which includes sample agendas

and complete lists of all those who attended

the total of fifteen Roundtable meetings.
Im_licltons for policy

In order to facilitate its review of federal youth programs, the Vice

President's Task Forcl developed a matrix of key topics which would be analyzed across each program in terms of the needs to be addressed, effective

models or strategies, and suggestions for future policy. These topics include Access to the Private Sector, Public Job Creation, Educational Strategies and Institutions, Supportive Services, and Management.

The Education-Private Sector Roundtables were not organized according

to this matrix, but the discussions have a number of implications for policy

in these areas. This section of the Final Report will seek to coalesce

themes of the Roundtable around each of these focus topics. We have reviewed

notes from the meetings, the transcripts, and the City Reports to derive

themes which seem to cut across all cities and all groups. Some of them may

seem obvious; others may suggest substantial change in federal approaches to

what is a local problem. The discussion in this session does not exhaust

all that might be said on each of these topics. The "list" under each was

purposively confined to items which the Roundtables suggest are critical.

Two themes stand out from the Roundtables:

Employers who can read and write--that is,

there is a need for greater emphasis on basic education;

Employers want ouths who know how erform on the

job= that is, kids need k experiences which will

teach them basic employment skills.

A. Access to the Private Sector

Much of the Roundtable discussion naturally focused on the role of the

private sector. This was true in both the Employer and the Education sessions.

Issues connected with the private sector will recur under each of our analysis

headings. In this section, though, the emphasis is on access across a spectrum

of avenues from simple communication to job placements.
4

1. Business is not monolithic. No one strategy *11 work for

all companies. It is particularly important to distinguish

between the needs of lar e and small em lo-ers.

The clearest fact to emerge from the Roundtables was this distinction

between large and small employers which colors all suggestions for new

private sector initiatives and requires that these initiatives be tiered to

reflect substantially different capacities to hire and retain youth employees.

Five characteristics of small employers deserve emphasis:

is they operate on very narrow profit margins, are always in the

market for capital, and feel neglected by federal policies

aimed at promoting economic growth;

because they lack the institutional structure of large firms,

they can make hiring (and other) decisions more quickly but

they also expect quick returns;

they are firmly rooted in their local communities and, therefore,

feel a stronger, more "operative" sense of social responsibility;

the smaller size of their organization and work force may well

make them more supportive environments for inexperienced, disadvantaged youth;

Is generally, they need labor with a higher level of job - specific

skills than larger firms which are able to train in-house.

A recent study by David Burch (The Job Generation Process, MIT 1979)

found that 66 percent of all new jobs in the economy were created by firms

with fewer than 20 employees. When combined with the Roundtable discussions

and other studies (e.g. David Robison, "Small Business Employment and the

Hiring of Youth", VPTFYS 1979), this suggests that greater attention should

be focused on small employe-s in federal employment efforts. Some hazards

for such a strategy were also noted during the Roundtables:

most small employers do not have the time, let alone the

management capacity, to respond to federal programs and

procurements;

the mortality rate for small business is high and so, too,

is the turnover in their management and goals;

there are literally hundreds of thousands of small employers

with a comparable variation in capital and labor needs;
5

or wage rates are generally lower and prospects for career

planning more limited, especially when it may require

further training;

e there is a special shortage of appropriate small employers

in the distressed neighborhoods of many cities.

Again, it should be remembered that both the virtues and hazards o small

enterprises vary considerably. The Roundtables included very large and very

small companies and it is not possible to specify these generalizations

across the range of actual company sizes.

Several characteristics of large employers are also important for youth

policies:

they have a genuine desire to influence school systems,

particularly in areas of staff training, curriculum, and

accountability;

to they are concerned with problems of retention and integration of youth into their work force;

they are more likely to be unionized and to measure th( -r

activities in the light of multiple, national impacts;

their status as large institutions must be considered in

terms of planning time, methods of decision making, and

type of personnel used in recruiting them to participate

in public programs;

they can afford to invest time and effort in federal youth

programs.

The variations between large and small employers intersect with variations across industries. It is obvious that retail and service firms are

more interested in minimum wage labor than are manufacturers of computer

parts. Yet nearly all employers have problems locating minority employees,

filling certain job slots, and retaining good employees over a long period

of time. Among other possible variables, the effects of the following were

stressed in the Roundtables:

type of occupation /industry;

level of technological change and use of automation;
geographic location of the company;

o the age of the company and its capital base;

the details of its expansion/contraction in recent years;

co the types and extent of collective bargaining.

It was apparent that a federal policy which was not capable of adapting to

these variables on a case by case basis would be less than effective in promoting increased involvement of employers.

A good indication of the fact that perceptions of business as essentially

monolithic are false comes from the different assessments given to the impact

of the minimum wage on employment. It is widely believed that a lower or differential wage would be encouraged by small companies and ignored by the large.

In none of the Small Business Roundtables was the minimum wage a major topi

of discussion andonl- ew individual businesses cited it as a barrier. On

the other hand, all of the Large Employer discussions mentioned the wage as a

barrier, but not for them for the small businesses! (There was some large

Employer concern that the wage was accelerating the inevitable automation of

clerical work in large companies.)

2. Chan es in the work force will reduce en r evel opportunities

in the next five years.

None of the employer groups responded enthusiastically to the Agenda

questions about anticipated changes in the work force. Nevertheless, many of

their comments about hiring, barriers, and educational programs reflect important trends in the composition of the work force and the means required to

gain access to it. These include:

(1) The number of entry-level jobs appears to be shrinking both

absolutely and relatively. The overall number of such jobs is declining

because of replacement through technology and through higher entry requirements. Both causes seem to be effects of employer anx=ety about the quality
7

and stability of the potential work force. In some of the more attractive

employers, higher initial wages have combined with limited advancement opportunities to reduce the availability of entry jobs. In other words, the

cost of entry-le.rel workers is rising and none of the comments at the Roundtables could be used to argue that this trend can be reversed through credits

or subsidies.

(2) Nevertheless, the growing reliance of large employers on

"internal labor markets' means that disadvanta ed outh are increasin 1

jt_yDreltwInesforcthhrinkineatoainacoess

to these firms. It also means that youth must learn to (further) moderate

their job expectations and to be prepared for a long tenure prior to advancement. This is less of a problem with =tali employers, but the latter also

have a more limited range of occupations open to their employees.

(3) Among the fixed costs of labor are those associated with requisite training. The concerns of large employers about stability and reliability dictate further adaptations in their work force while still maintaining preemptive control over training. Small employers cannot adapt to

increased fixed costs and are much more willing to rely on the public sector

to provide pre-employment training.

(4) Higher fixed costs combined with higher minimum wages do raise

the overall price of hiring "risky" youth. This might be used to argue that

a lower wage would benefically impact on the cost. However, another view

would be that as the fixed costs increase the relative effects, of the minimum

wage decrease. This is borne out in the pronounced emphasis all employers

place on the subjective assessment of job candidates.

(5) Two important changes in employer perceptions about these variables were stressed over and over again in the Roundtables. First, yardsticks

like a high school di loma are no ion -e as valuable as the once were in

hirir. Employers are interested in attitude, maturity, and basic work experience. Second, they are generally not as interested in prior skill
training as in fundamental academic skills. Most employers would urge that

the limited resources of public schools be used to provide sound fundamental

skills and good work habits. If they can be assured of these, they are much

more willing to invest in training for the people they hire. This holds even

for many smaller employers for whom a general shop "orientation" would be sufficient if the youths also possessed other world of work skills.

(6) There are some selective labor shortages. Machinists were

mentioned most often, but so too were data entry clerks, secretaries, healthcare technicians, and a raft of paraprofessional positions. There was no

consensus on the role of public agents in solving these shortages. On the

one hand, schools were criticized for not changing their classroom training

in response to employer needs; on the other hand, it was strongly felt that

schools could never keep up with technological innovation and had best leave

this to employers.

3. It is difficult to- predict or measure the impacts of federal

From the Roundtables it would appear that the task of estimating the

potential impact of federal inducements is getting harder all the time.

Three factors were frequently cited which complicate these estimates:

Employers feel hedged in by conflicting federal goals.

They are urged to hire high risk youth at the same time

they are investing in capital-intensive environmental

improvements. They are obliged to use affirmative

action in hiring while still improving their productivity.

They are uncomfortable with federal policies which force

them to make a social "choice" between individuals and

groups in need.

The accumulated, negative effects of governmental "interventions" act to make each new incentive less effective

than it would have been "on its own".

The Targeted Jobs Talc Credit is the most recent federal program aimed at

stimulating the employment of the disadvantaged. The Tax Credit was discussed
9

in all of the employer Roundtables and, although it is too early to estimate

the effects of the credit, a few problems were cited:

Poor marketing which meant that employers either did

not know about it or were given incomplete information:

A general fear of tax audits as a consequence

claiming the credit;

The low profit margins and lack of accounting sophistication among small employers;

The departmental structure of large employers which

separates hiring decisions from accounting rewards;

The lack of coordination between the Tax Credit and

training and employment programs.

It was also noted that the new Tax Credit incorporated significant improvements over earlier forms and that awareness of the TJTC is growing among

employers.

4. Em]peEvnrearinkidsforum i employment.

The Roundtables made clear that employers are interested in a variety

of interactions with the public sector above and beyond those strictly concerned with employment. One might divide the universe of activities into

hard and soft categories, with the former referring to job creation/expansion

and the latter to an array of educational activities, including, for example,

work experience and job sampling. The Roundtables tended to focus on the

latter activities, which can be attributed to either the nature of the participants or to the intractability of "hard" changes in the work force on

behalf of youth. Even in the case of some of the "softer" activities,

economic inducements would be important to realizing them.

The activities identified by a number of employers include:

short-term work experience of a career exploratory type;

meetings with educators to discuss a range of vocational

and educational issues;
assistance to educato

basic curricula (care

curricula;

10

s in developing job-related

r education) or specific trade

lectures, career days, and 'la informational

exercises;

work sampling for teachers and guidance counselors

in which these educational professionals would spend

time inside employers experiencing a variety of occupations and work environments;

specific skill training, either at the employer or in vocational-technical schools.

All of these activities were seen as important to improving the quality of

school graduates as well as in improving the "image" of education within

business circles. They would be expedited by the provision of funds (either

to schools or through Prime Sponsors) since most companies cannot afford to

pay for activities which, though considered important, do not relate directly

to their business. Finally, employers need to be involved from the beginning

in planning and executing these programs. Even when they do not pay for them,

it is necessary for employers to feel some ownership of the results.

The best examples of some of these activities occur in school system

programs. In many cities, employers serve on curriculum committees, provide

work/study placements, and perform other career-oriented services. The two

CETA programs most favorably cited were VEPs and STIP, both of which allow

significant employer input. Employers express a preference for dealing with

schools rather than CETA, although they expect the schools to take the initiative. The reasons for this preference include:

the institutional longevity and permanence of schools;

the perception that schools are a basic community institution which ought to serve all school children well;

the residual credibility of school system programs, especially when compared with CETA.
11

Although the activities in which employers expressed interest are not

targeted on those youth in the greatest need, it was felt that improved

school system responsiveness would lead to more response by employers. It

may be necessary to establish credibility through "safer" programs as a

stepping-atone to programs which would serve those with the fewest skills

and least motivation.

5. Steps which wuuld lead to greater access to theprivate sector

In order to improve access to the private sector, the following might

be considered:

is Employers want employees with good basic academic and

work skills. They would choose these over specific

classroom job training

Federal policies should be more flexible and allow

local operators to tailor incentives, programs, and

agents to the identified needs of their area.

There should ie a recognition of the important differences between large and small employers, with a

special notation of the great potential inherent in

the latter.

Employer needs and interest must be addressed to

establish credibility. This means they should be

asked about their needs and included in program

planning.

Better co cation on all levels is required between the public and private sector. This communication should not b limited to major Councils or

special events.

Employers identify a major problem retaining disadvantaged employees. Policies and programs should

take into account the differences between access in

hiring and problems of retention.

The cumulative "lesson" of the Roundtables was that, prior to designing

better tools for gaining access, we need to understand better how employers

behave and how these behaviors differ according to size, location, and industry. In'marketing, it is taken for granted that one needs to analyze the
12

potential congers before embark ng on a selling campaign. Public employment initiatives might benefit from the same approach.

B. Educational Strateg es & Institutions

Three points emerged from the Boundtables vis-a-vis program strategies:

Career education is needed in all grades and all schools,

urban and suburban. Career education means exposure to

work values, basic understanding of the economy, and the

chance to evolve occupational goals in a realistic context. In a sense, it can be viewed as a long-term, "preventive" measure.

Real work experience is needed for all high school age

however, it must:

1. be designed to give kids a sense of

self - esteem and success;

2. involve productive work valued by

the employer and the community;

be linked to academic and counseling

services.

Programs should be designed so that kids feel at home,

understand the connections between different aspects of

their experience, and get reinforced for their positive

behaviors.

On the institutional side,

city to city:

_ee needs ere consistently identified from

e Although it was felt that basic educational and vocational skills are the most important ingredients for

success in the world of work, there is a critical

shorta.e of vocational- technical hi =h schools in urban

areas. Those which exist tend to be underfunded and

antiquated. It was also felt that federal incentives

to build voc-tech schools had mainly benefited suburban

areas. Community and junior colleges represent an underutilized

resource for youth employment programs. Greater inducements should be made available to encourage linkages between these institutions and public schools, CEOs, and

Prime Sponsors.

21
13

al Urban public schools have not served the poor and minorities very well, especially the growing Hispanic population. At the same time, the public schools are perceived as the central institution affecting the lives

of young people. The values which influence school systems need to be altered so that alternative programs can

be developed which serve the noncollege bound, the handicapped, and linguistic minorities.

C. Supportive Services

In this Report, supportive services are taken to include not only direct

services to youth, but ancillary services which will help them to adjust to

the world of work. The consensus of the Roundtables endorsed the following

mayor themes:

1. Transportation

Since most job growth is happening on the periphery of central cities,

transportation has long been a major barrier for the disadvantaged. The energy

crisis will exacerbate this problem over the next decade, especially since its

costs will impinge primarily on those who can least afford them. In the short

run, CETA dollars will continue to be needed to assist youth in getting to and

from work experience sites. In the longer run, it was suggested that:

o Special projects be developed to create new ways for

kids to assist in overhauling public transportation:

o Efforts be made to coordinate federal youth funds with

other federal initiatives aimed at improving public

transit.

2. Career Information

There was a widespread perception, among both employers and educators,

that existing "jot banks" or referral services are not working very well. They

are dysfunctional both in terms of providing appropriate referrals and in the

simpler sense of bringing vacant jobs to the attention of the unemployed. The

Employment Service suffers from a credibility problem at least as great as that

of any other public institution.
14

At the same time, schools should begin to introduce jobs and careers to

children in the elementary grades and then reinforce this knowledge with a

progressively developed exposure to the work world. All too many youths do

not know how to dress for interviews, how to complete application forms, and

how to respond to questions about their skills and interests.

Neither of these reforms was viewed in a mechanical sense. Just as the

Employment Service needs more than a better "computer", career information cannot simply be dispensed it should be linked with continuing occupational programs.

3. The growth and develppment_of_adolespents

Discussions of the so-called affective side of youths can tend to become

fuzzy, particularly when they occur in tandem with employment practices. Susinesses are not in the business of promoting adolescent growth and development.

In fact, a continuity- dilemna for o erators is the unresolvable conflict

betueen - roductivit .owls of business and individual needs of often

troubled adolescents. Nevertheless, the Roundtable participants recognized the

need for programs which:

focus on the "whole" youth;

Im develop in kids a sense of self-esteem and self - worth;

help them to understand the values of the adult world,

especially as they are expressed in the "protocols" of

business;

e provide them with individual goals, the ability to make

informed decisions, and the self-discipline to follow

through on those decisions;

offer them useful adult role models;

are structured to parallel the developmental process of

youth as they move from early adolescence to young

hood
15

4. Training for the trainers

Few themes were echoed throughout the Employer meetings more consistently

than the need for improved training opportunities for guidance counselors. Many

c anies terceive the counselors as the ke =eo -le affectin. the career development of young adults. Strategies for improving the effectiveness of counselors include:

changing college training programs to include world

work curricula;

increasing the number of guidance personnel in public

schools;

sensitizina both the counselors and school administrators to the needs of minorities and the disadvantaged;

requiring both counselors and teachers to spend some

time in the business sector as part of their internships or in-service training.

School personnel were not the only ones felt to need improved training.

As noted above, the problems of youth in the labor market do not end with the

acquisition of a job. Turrojgerthe'obishih,eseciallamontheor

and among minority groups. The attitudes and interests of supervisors and

fellow employees can be crucial in determining whether a youth stays on the

job two weeks or two years. The quality of their supervision can be improved

through the following means:

specialized training programs which will orient company

personnel to the behaviors of adolescents, available

support systems, and potential cultural differences;

increased rewards, within the company, for supervisory

"success" with the disadvantaged;

9 better long-term follow-up by counselors and others

making job placements;

the exercise of care in the selection of youth supervisors by the company.
16

D. Public Job Creation

Most of the discussions in the Roundtable series dealt with private

sector themes. Nevertheless, the role of the public sector in creating

and sustaining employment possibilities was viewed as necessary for three

key reasons:

A widespread belief that there are too few jobs available

now and in the immediate future in inner city areas;

A perception that many important services need to be developed in urban and rural areas and that these will not, in

the short term_ prove sufficiently profitable to attract

the rivate sector;

A strong impression that the public sector is particularly

adept at providing the "bridge" jobs which youth need as

they build an employment record.

There was a fair amount of criticism of the quality of the work experiences

created through the public sector, and, as a result, the discussions surfaced

several goals which should be kept in mind in planning effective work programs:

Projects which result in tangible community benefits

will not only give the youths a sense of accomplishment, they will also generate community support for

youth programs.

They should focus on areas where the market has not

responded to needs, but they Lcould also build links

to the unions and businesses which, ultimately, will

be the "consumers" of their human "products".

All work programs should include substantive skill

training and this, too, can be planned in consort

with the private sector and educators.

The best publicly created jobs will fit into an economic development scheme for the affected communities.

Projects should be required to foster links with other

development efforts.

Planners should also take into account the potential

impact of youth community improvement projects on unemployed adults. Projects might try to bring youths and adults

together in a joint strategy for community development.
17

One model which was extensively praised is that which develops youthoperated businesses. Successful examples were cited in Chicago, Hartford,

and Los Angeles. Many Roundtable participants believed that the recession

will have a severe impact on disadvantaged youth. Using public funds to

create youth enterprises may be a useful technique for dulling the effects

of business cycles on youth by developing and maintaining needed community

services.

E. Management

Much of the discussion of the youth delivery system" has a familiar

ring to it. Some of the problems frequently cited in the Roundtables include:

the generally unfavorable image which elvloyers and

educators have of CETA an image which appears to be

difficult to eradicate;

a perception that many of the current programs, especially the Summer Youth Employment Program, are

essentially holding actions with little long-term

value (there was some recognition of the DOL/OYP

effort to upgrade SYEP in the summer of 1979);

important conflicts between the goals of federal

employment programs and those of schools and employers (the latter stress productivity, while the

schools look more to "process" rather than product);

the fluctuations in funding which oblige community

agencies to constantly adapt their services to match

available dollars.

Nevertheless, most of the conversation on system issues took the form of

recommendations for new policy approaches:

Eliminate the fragmentation of titles and services

through a consolidated local block grant;

Mandate "industry advisory" boards for all CETA programs as part of an upgraded evaluation capacity;

Improve the training and professional level of CETA

staff;

Provide better technical assistance to Prime Sponsors

and program operators, either through Regional officea

or through special purpose intermediaries;

2E
18

Create incentives for Prime Sponsors through which

increased funds for special programs would follow

from good performance;

Do the same for youth; in other words, allow greater

flexibility--up and down--with youth wages;

Reduce the disincentives for rivate sector involvement tz (a) eliminating most of the paperwork, and

(b) arming local programs with more versatile inducements;

Give Primes the authority to contract for two or three

years at a time, but link this with clearer and more

appropriate performance standards;

Create new mechanisms for the exchange of management

and knowledge development information among local

operators;

Initiate a long-term strategy to improve the public

image of CETA, particularly by focusing on successful

local programs.

Two complementary themes recurred throughout the Roundtable sessions with

respect to the system issues. The first is a disheartening one:

CETA resources, now and in the foreseeable future, are

small with respect to the magnitude of youth problems.

On the other hand, there was a strong feeling_that_local administrators, program

ators, and businesses have the com e ence to address the roblem, if given

equate financial and technical support on the federal level. Obviously, the

degree of local capacity varies greatly. It was felt that, where the capacity

already exists, it should be enhanced and rewarded, and that where it does not,

special efforts should be undertaken to nurture it.
19

Res A enda

The focus of this section switches to the Agenda questions used t© guide

the discussions during the Roundtables. The participants were not polled regarding each question, but most of their comments can legitimately be grouped

under the Agenda headings. There were six questions for business and six for

the education/human services groups. Because these twelve questions overlap,

we have itemized the response according to nine summary questions which incorporate all of the original twelve.

1. What does your company look for in hiri ng. entry-level employees?

There was a remarkable degree of similarity in the responses of all employers, large and small, from all parts of the country, to this question.

Generally, in terms of importance, they listed: the ability to read and write,

an expressed interest in the job, and a record of prior work experience

(not necessarily directly related to the job under consideration). For certain

jobs, additional factors would come into play: mobility, age, directly relevant work experience, "maturity", and credentialed skill training. It seemed

that, given the three key ingredients of basic skills, interest, and work experience, employers looked for a sense of the candidate's "attitude" or willingness to work hard and follow directions. A selection of further comments follows:

(a) Smallnployers

Some companies perceive a declining turnover in their higher

level jobs. This means that most promotion occurs from within

and that to gain access to the better jobs, the disadvantaged

must rely on a diminishing supply of entry-level slots.

Many of the lower-end entry positions are being filled by

people who are technically over-qualified. College graduates pose an increasing competitive threat to disadvantaged groups.
20

The fast food industry has the lowest entry level qualifications and, perhaps, the greatest flexibility in

dealing with lack of prior experience on the part of youth.

Although manufacturing firms are worried that larger com- panies will scoop-up their expensively trained personnel,

some smaller companies rely, in fact, on hiring people

trained by their larger neighbors.

There was a strong feeling that smaller companies are more

responsive to the special needs of youth and other groups

without much work experience. They can go further in

dealing with "personal problems", although even they are

unable to handle many of the psychological needs found

in today's work force.

D .tees ticula h. h school di lo are less imthan Many companies,

however, wish that they could be restored to their former

status because it is so difficult, otherwi se, to certify

the potential of candidates. There is increasing reliance

on company testing in lieu of the diploma.

There was a stron feelin the " Ob ban" is not workin

Neither the Employment Service nor newspaper ads nor traditional avenues for referral seem adequate.

Maturity, by itself, is a prime factor with certain types

of jobs; for instance, handling money or selling automobiles.

nployers look particularly for candidates just past the

entry level; that is, people who have already demonstrated

their diligence, reliability, and capacity to learn.

It was felt that vocational skills training should be given

to kids only after they had had a chance to explore various

occupations.
21

If employers were allowed to pay less than minimum wage

for employees under 18, they might be encouraged to hire

more youth. Under the current Ylge scale, the contribution a youthful employee makes to the overall profitability of the company is frequently less than the wages

they are paid.

(b) l'AE22ET212YAKE

The total size of the work force in larger companies is

fairly stable but its composition is shifting. Entrylevel slots are declining and professional or semiprofessional positions are expanding.

The companies attending the Roundtables.varied considerably in their hiring needs, even when they function in

virtually the same industry. The level of technology in

the companies, which may be viewed as determined by capital

availability, plays a large role in this variation.

Com =anies are findin themselves interviewin- man more

candidates121cedid. This increases the fixed costs of hiring entry-level employees

and, thereby, further erodes the competitiveness of youth

labor. But it also creates opportunities for public programs which can, in fact, establish the credibility--through

successful experience--of their referrals.

For new hires, the list of attributes included skill proficiency, maturity, flexibility, stability, and attitude

(with the latter candidly defined as "willingness to take

direction").

Many employers look for evidence of "trainability". It used

to be that the high school diploma provided this evidence,

but that is no longer true and this fact complicates the

hiring practices of employers.
22

It has become increasingly difficult to fill many entrylevel jobs in large companies. Turnover is high and the

"cost" of maintaining the work force is skyrocketing.

Specific assistance to employers in this domain--for both

adults and youth--seems to offer an opening for public

agencies.

(c) Education

Today's youth are not seen as any different from the youth

of a decade ago. The labor market has chan ed more than

the youth.

Much of youth unemployment is intermittent, although the

length of time between jobs and the nature of the jobs

themselves may be changing.

One of the biggest drawbacks for youth is their lack of

understanding of social protocol in business--the codes

of behavior expected of all employees, particularly of

new, untested employees.

2. What do ou see a e ouch'

The many barriers identified by participants in the Roundtables were described in terms of the status quo; that is, in reference to the way things

happen now, in the absence of specific federal intervention. The barriers

were of four types: employer-induced (ranging from union work rules to insurance stipulations); government-induced (including the minimum wage and

child labor laws); youth status (attitude, family expectations, educational

attainment); and factors exogenous to youth (such as transportation, changes

in the labor market, and the state of the economy).

(a) aallEnkE122L

Attitude is a major barrier. Companies have stereotypes

about youth attitudes, while kids are seen as having a

negative attitude towards the value of work.
23

Poor kids would a n if the were better = reared for

the initial_ job interview and for the first few dais

on the job, when lasting impressions are often formed

on the basis of limited evidence.

Some of the lack of work orientation is causellall

b e unfarniliarit cif a .rou= new to the labor market.

This applies to minorities, women, and immigrants as much

as it does to youth. None of these groups were taken

seriously in the labor market for a long time and now,

either through internal or external pressure, they are

re-entering the work force in great numbers.

Parents, by creating high and often unrealistic career

expectations for their children, thereby create an invisible barrier to their employment in many companies.

The poverty background of many youths was seen as a

barrier; companies recognize this and often immediately

stereotype the applicant. This was identified as a problem in trying to transform summer 't-IPs !ositions into

permanent jobs. Employers willing to jamble with a subsidy are reluctant to do so on their own.

Youth represent a definite employment risk. The suggestion

was made that employers be permitted a probationary period

during which time they would not be liable for employment

insurance for new youth hires.

Employer-induced barriers include the personnel practice

of promoting from within to fill vacancies above entrylevel. Employers evaluate entry-level applicants not

only for their ability to perform the job they were applying for, but also for promotion potential. This creates

high standards even for seemingly simple entry-level jobs.

Another problem originating with the employer is supervisor

prejudice. This was described as something to be worked

out by the company's personnel department.
24

Government imposed barriers include: OSHA, Davis-Bacon

minimum wage, affirmative action plans, and child labor

laws. All of these hinder small companies more than

large ones.

Small businesses also find it difficult to hire disadvantaged youth because of an inability to hide the higher

costs associated with lower productivity.

Racial discrimination is still perceived to be a factor

for some youth and some companies, and its impact is

greater when the job climate worsens.

A further barrier to youth is the state of the labor

market. There aren't enough jobs to go around. For

example, of 11,000 kids who applied at one state employment service, only about 10 percent could even be referred to jobs. Further, there aren't enough publicly

supported jobs either. For example, there were 6,000

applicants for 2,500 SYEP jobs this year in Birminghi-

(b) IAEISEEELIxn1

sence of sufficient basic skills (i.e. , reading

math) was noted as a major problem. The overwhelming

consensus was that this was the schools' responsibility.

The lack of preparedness for the world of work, including

such things as the ability to fill out an application

form, knowing to call in when sick, and dressing properly

for an interview, was cited as another barrier for youth.

di A major barrier to youth getting a job is not having had

a job already. Employers stressed their desire to hire

"proven commodities". Consistent participation in a

training program may substitute for work history as an

indicator of a youth's orientation.
25

Disci-line is a serious end major concern for most emp.

Discipline problems are seen as behind many terminations of

youth who, often, see behavioral requirements as a personal

challenge and who do not understand the structure of the workplace in which they find themselves. Drugs and alcohol were

cited as the major reason for most forced terminations from

the job for both adults and youth.

Good supervision on the job is the key to transforming risky

hires into long-term employees. Examples of such risks include youth,ex-offenders, and people from different cultural

backgrounds. Yet the decisions of high-level corporate managers to hire disadvantaged youths are frequently not success- fully communicated to the shopfloor. Supervisory personnel

do not see themselves as "social-workers" and are sometimes

unwilling to support a disadvantaged youth through a prolonged adjustment period.

mancanirealonarenticestm. It was

felt that kids are too impatient for advancement and, thus

block themselves from entry into some of the better paying,

more stable occupations.

Technological innovations are reducing absolutely the numbers

of unskilled entry-level jobs. Available 'as are bec in i

cresngl_y_nnre complex and professional.

Transportation was cited as a barrier for youth, especially

since much corporate expansion is taking place outside the

central city.

Students are often available to work only in the afternoon.

Many businesses are willing to institute some form of jobsharing to produce part-time jobs for youth as opposed to

a single adult job, yet were unable to fill morning slots.

Flexible school schedules or academic credit for work experience would be a prerequisite to any such arrangement.
26

The Large Employers saw the minimum wage as having a

major impact on youth hiring but not for themselves.

Rather, they assumed that it had an impact on small

business.

(c) Education

The attrition rates for youth on the job are very high.

Two causes for this were stressed: (a) the lure of the

street economy which has the added virtue of peer approval--and (b) the confusion created in kids by the

absence of clear lines of authority and clear job descriptions within business. (This theme might be linked

with the businesses' perception that kids do not understand company protocol. If protocol is not formally

codified, adolescents are more likely to misunderstand

it.)

The major issue from the operators' perspective was not

really hiring, but the subsequent absorption of kids by

employers. Success in this process depends on the firstline supervisors charged by the companies with overseeing

the training and performance of new hires.

A consistent theme among the Education groups was the perceived lack of follow through on the part of business. Top

management seems to make commitments to the public sector

but these erode in the course of company implementation.

Middle-level management was seen as particularly vulnerable

to quick disappointment when the first kids placed did not

succeed quickly.

Educators feel that small businesses do offer good opportunities for kids (mainly for the same reasons mentioned by

employers) but speculate that they are hindered from more

extensive involvement by (a) lack of in-house training capacity and (b) the costs of complying with federal, state,

and local paperwork.
27

Somewhat paradoxically, the greatest barrier for youth

y be their "age": not only do child labor laws and

insurance regulations prohibit kids from many jobs,

but, increasingly, employers look for "personal maturity" as an attribute in those they hire for semiskilled or entry-level positions.

Do minorit students have s cial career and vocational needs?

This was an issue dealt with more thoroughly in the education meetings

than in tin employer groups. Although many participants ztressed that discrimination continues to influence the labor market and the quality of educational preparation available to many youths, they also asserted that its

effects are virtually impossible to separate from the effects of many other

factors. The area in which the broadest agreement emerged was on the need

to prepare company personnel to relate effectively to minority youths entering

their work force.

Small Euiployers

Economic development programs targeted to certain areas

of the city and coordinated among all federal and private

agencies were seen as the best long-range solution to the

employment of minorities.

It is necessary for the "social commitment" or "social conscience" of companies to pervade the entire corporation and

not be confined to top level management. At the same time,

social commitment comes into conflict with internal productivity goals.

It was also felt that supervisory employees in most companies

are not sufficiently prepared to deal with kids from different

social, economic, and racial backgrounds.
29

(b) l'2E2!Er11212XtE

Some companies have developed special recruitment and

training programs for minorities. These are not usually

targeted on youth, though young people are participating

in them.

o Some large employers see the recruitment of minorities as

a "social choice" rhich can erode their productivity. The

need for considerable company follow-through (described

by one participant as "parenting") inflates the cost of

this choice.

A growing problem is the assimilation of Hispanics into

the work force. Language and cultural differences make

Hispanics last in the hiring queue. By 1990 Hispanics

are expected to be the largest minority in the nation.

Employers described this as an area of great need and

limited immediate prospects.

Education

There was a consensus on the failure of the public schools

to serve their minority students equitably. This was true

for disadvantaged and handicapped youth in general.

Greatly expanded efforts are needed to sensitize employers

to the minority youths coming into the labor market. Such

programs would parallel the efforts made in the late 1960's

around school desegregation. These programs were seen as

successful but limited in scale and impact.

Many minority youth function in a "society of the street"

and have norms and values which differ from those of the

working world. As much as they may want to enter the job

market, they see it as closed to them.
4.

29

The absence of employed adults in some distressed families

means that some minorities have no role models to follow

as they enter the world of work. Programs might consider

including parents in their world of work orientation.

ou had with local CETA offices?

The CETA system was not discussed so extensively in the employer meetings

as might have been expected. There was a familiar litany of complaints about

CETA--no outreach to business, bad follow-through on commitments, unreliable

funding, too much paperwork--but it was acknowledged that these complaints were

founded on limited actual experience. In a sense, the tone of these discussions

was much better than the content: employers expressed interest in more collaboration and were enthused about the private Industr Councils.

(a) Small Employers

e It was suggested that the private sector is too quick in

giving-up on CETA and that there is a preordained sense

of failure which then results in the real thing.

The STIP program was singled out as a success because

of its heavy involvement of employers from the very beginning. Many small employers wish they had a chance to help

write school curricula as well.

The Private Industry Councils were perceived as having a

good chance at reversing the CETA image. Planning for the

PlC's activities has taken a broad perspective with little

pressure to "rush into" programming. Some participants

hoped that the PICs could be a vehicle for exercising leverage on the schools.

(b) Large EMpl2yers.

There was agreement that neither CETA nor the school system

is adegl_lately aware of the needs of the private sector and

that this "ignorance" contributes to program failure.
3o

Organized labor has not been involved enough in youth

employment programs, despite the fact that in many industries they control the labor supply.

CETA programs are perceived as lacking the kind of permanency which large businesses like to have in their

partners. The schools, therefore, seem to be better

candidates for this partnership.

ucation

The ori-inal CETA laced ium on local

decision - making It was felt that subsequent legislative

alterations and expansions have eroded self-determination.

There are too many fragmented programs and titles, too

many quotas for program performance, and too many mandated

program activities. The solution was described as consclida n of all -ma h .ro =rns into onesALtaEt2.ffAtImit

of =eissabie activities and outcomes.

The existin o nce standards -outh 'r -=rams which

stress lob placement are not a prOpriate and lead to counterproductive compliance strategies.

Agencies currently serving CETA clients are virtually barred

from using private sector placements. They are locked into a

narrow cluster of the same non-profits and governmental agencies. OJT offers the only "escape route" but it is one full

of potholes.

HEW and DOL are described as having conflicting goals for

their sponsored programs, especially when it comes to participant eligibility.

The Targeted Jobs Tax Credit and CETA youth training programs were described as "isolated" from one another. The

TJTC attempts to encourage private sector employment for

disadvantaged youth but presupposes a trained or "employable"

youth labor force.
31

It was felt that Prime Sponsors--ana their subcontractors--need funding mechanisms whi__ reward good performance. This could take the shape of "challenge" grants

or incentive grants based on certain private/public

goals.

The major continuing dilemma for the CETA system was

perceived to be the manner in which its administrative

difficulties undermine its program objectives. This

stems from frequent program turnover, low salaries, no

continuity in funding, and no permanency to either

Prime Sponsor or contractor staff. The system will

improve when good staff and good programs are sustained.

5. Has the 22

I outlive

ercent_set-aside in

esent

YEDPA fostered relationships which

The YPA inspired LEA Agreement was a topic outside the purview of the

business sessions and of special interest only to a minority of those attending

the education sessions. In two of the five cities (Hartford and Birmingham),

the LEA Agreement led to greatly expanded relationships between the Prime

Sponsor and the public schools. In the other three cities, the 22 percent setaside was merged with other programs operated jointly by the LEAs and the CETA

offices. The education participants saw the LEA Agreement as a goad and useful innovation, while the private rector meetings endorsed the central concept

behind those agreements more cooperative programming on behalf of youth.

(a) Education

Schools n on a rm basis. This often conflicts

with CETA timetables which call for quick results. It

helps explain why the private sector is more comfortable

working with the schools.
32

There was a perception that few out-of-school youth are

served by school-based programs. Two reasons were presented: (a) outreach efforts are not encouraged contractually, and (b) kids are not aware of the range of available programs. There is no clearinghouse of information

for kids who tend, as a result, to bounce from program

program.

Those involved in employment and education issues, public

and private sector alike, were seen as acting independently

of each other. A mechanism for continuous interaction between the public and private sectors was deemed crucial.

Although the PICs are still new organizations, many participants were enthusiastic about their ability to fill this

void.

A new occupational role is being evolved in some schools as

a result of YEDPA. This role combines the functions of

teacher, counselor, and job developer and is seen as an effective mediator between the educational sphere and the

world of work.

6. What chances do you anticipate in your comany's work force needs in

the next five years?

The Roundtable participants responded to this question with three developments: a perceived job expansion among small employers (especially in high

technology areas); a critical need to replace some workers who are nearing retirement (the outstanding example was machinists); and anticipated changes in

the relative need for different occupations (more professionals and middlelevel managers, and more people in the field of information processing). Large

employers stressed the last two categories and did not foresee any major expansion in the size of their work forces over the next few years.
Small Employers

The most immediate concern for small businesses is the

impending retirement of many of their skilled machinists

and metal trade workers. Although youth do not constitute

the prime source of candidates for these vacancies, this

situation does suggest long-term federal programs to train

workers.

There is also a chronic shortage of employees at the other

and of the scale; McDonald's, for example, operates at

about 75 percent of its planned work force.

The small employees anticipated intensified competition

for available jobs over the next five years. Groups likely

to impact on youth include women, senior citizens, minority

adults, and immigrants.

There will probably be an increase in the numbers of parttime jobs. Many traditionally nine to five jobs are being

converted to part-time, especially in the retail industry

which is an important employer of youth.

(b) Large Employers

More and more companies are fostering career ladders for

their present employees, thereby creating internal labor

markets difficult to penetrate except through entry-level

jobs.

/oh expansion is ex acted in such areas as clothes manufacture, energy, technical fields requiring some post-secondary

education, health-care, machinists, computer operatJrs, and

information processing. The biggest labor market change

anticipated was in the clerical field, where a "revolution"

in machinery and information has been underway for several

years.
34

What are the meet effective ways to train -youth for employment?

Which educational r rams have been most effective in eiarinouths for the world of work?

Given the consistency with which all groups emphasized the need for basic

academic and employability skills, the Roundt ables did not focus on specific

skill training, but rather, on programs and approaches which would, over the

course of a youth's education, instill in them the attitudes and competencies

essential for employment. The major themes were: (a) the need for career education throughout schooling and (b) the need to link education with work experience.

small Bxployers

fa Career education was extolled aterm education and

In rovidin kids with world of work ient one the

schools should combine this instruction al work

mEeriengt; otherwise, youths will have no frame of reference for assimilating what they are being taught.

The cost of new equipment and the rapidity of obsolescence

suggest that employers will have to provide more direct,

machine-based training. Schools were urged to focus more

on basic academic skills.

The Vocational Exploration Program is an e fective model

for private sector work experience but, so far, it has

been limited to the summer.

Existin skill trainin ems are not au

small manufacturin

firms. These companies often cannot afford to run their

own training and, when they do, they are very careful in

selecting trainees.
35

Many times kids feel isolated and alone when first brought

into a large work environment populated mainly by adults.

It was suggested that the most effective way to integrate

kids into a work force is in small groups where they can

receive some peer support in the crucial first days of employment.

(b) large Employers

e All youth programs should stress the links between classroom

learning. This was believed to be a way to

both motivate the youth and satisfy employer needs.

It was felt that many youth programs begin in the wrong place;

that there is too much urgency about placing kids in jobs and

not enough effort spent to prepare them for finding jobs on

their own.

O Public high schools were encoura _concentrate the

efforts on teaching basic academic skills, and (b) monitor the

achievement of these skills better (in that way, certifying the

ac isition to potential employers).

o Vocational high schools were seen as offering good work preparation for youth. Interestingly, the perceived level of discipline

and the endorsement of work values found in such schools was regarded as being as important as the actual skills training.

a Most large companies do their own training and, therefor feel

less dependent on educational institutions for this service.

This does not apply to higher level or professional positions.

ucation

0 Early and consistent exposure to career and vocational education

was a ma or theme. Included in this would be traditional skills

training. However, the key would be more general "common sense"

training or life skills training. How to buy things or look for a

job were mentioned as topics.
36

Some characteristics of effective work preparation programs

cited were (a) world of work orientation, (b) good pre-training

of company personnel serving as supervisors, (c) a tiered approach

in which kids move from one level of work experience to another,

and (d) paid jobs which are linked to school attendance (as in

YIEPP).

Programs should centralize services to the youth. Kids need

to feel as if they have a home base. Alternative education

_o were felt to be successful at ovidin- this.

All training programs should include industry involvement from

the beginning in order to avoid the dilemma of kids being

trained but having no job placement. Lack of good program

outcomes is demoralizing and leaves a legacy future programs

must remediate.

The educators also suggested that better publicity about suc- cessful. CET programs would, in effect, help to improve the

quality of all programs by increasing community support.

What can be done to encourage more cooperation between educational

institutions and the private sector?

The Roundtable participants downplayed the impact of economic incentives

in achieving greater cooperation. Instead, they discussed the need for more

communication as the necessary, first step towards meaningful linkages

between the public and private sectors. Although the Private Industry

Councils were favorably described, it was noted that the TICS are not intended to accomplish the broad-based interaction which the education participants, in particular, felt was crucial.

l employe

business-school relationshi. mu

a continuous enc-- Too often, contacts evolve from crises or from an occasional

burst of "good will and produce no programmatic change.
37

In the process of developing this improved relationship, public

institutions need to recognize the substantial differences

between types and sizes of firms. The nature of the cooperstion_ will vary from industry to_ industry and_from large to

small companies.

Post-secondary institutions (especially two year colleges) and

technical high schools were described as the most responsive

educational institutions and the ones most likely to reach out

to employers first.

e A specific way to improve the transition from school to work

would be to place guidance counselors on jobs in local companies

as part of their own "in-service" sampling of careers. One participant reported vastly improved youth referrals following

such an experience by a local high school counselor.

Small businesses could work with the public schools to determine

a mutually agreed upon set of criteria defining youths as employable. Companies could guarantee a number of jobs for youth

who successfully meet the criteria. Such a policy would benefit

urban youths and would provide small businesses with a resource

for new hires.

(b) .Large _Employers

There was consensus on the point that many urban schools are "producing a product that is marginally employable at best."

One of the keys to improving the schools are guidance counselors.

Although they were widely criticized in the Roundtables, counselors

are still perceived by employers as playing a central role in

preparing aLd "guiding" youth.

The largest companies have made the most visible efforts to

impact the schools. One company developed a machine shop math

book, made presentations to more than 60 high schools, and even offered courses taught by company personnel in local, suburban

schools.

46
It was felt that many of the deficiencies of the public schools

are the result of the demands placed on them by parents, public

agencies, and government. As one participant put it: "The

schools are only giving us what we as parents have asked for."

Existing vocational education programs are stigmatized by

parents who encourage their children to pursue college prep

programs.

There was a widespread feeling that more meetings to exchange

problems, needs, and programs should take place involving the

public and private sectors. Employers describe themselves as

very interested in working with the public schools.

(c) Education

Repeatedly, participants cited the need for improved communication between program operators and private industry. Forums,

such as the Task.Force Roundtables, were ur ed as onoin

hides for the needed interaction.

A substantially expanded private sector role in youth employment will result only if the public sector has an expanded

repertoire of incentives to encourage business. These can range

all the way from advisory councils to direct subsidies and their

use can be tailored to the size of the company, the nature of

the job, and the age of the kids.

Educational institutions also need feedback from the private

sector about past and current training programs considered most

effective in training youth for work. The PIC may help organize

businesses to facilitate their feedback.

e One cautionary note was struck: "Industry doesn't have a problem;

we do." That is, the onus of the community need is seen as

falling on agencies such as those attending the Roundtable.

Business, despite some selective labor shortages and some turnover problems, is not obliged to deal with the needs of youth;

thus, they cannot be expected to react in the same way as the

agencies do. This reality must be taken into account in efforts

aimed at increasing cooperation between the sectors.

A to...
39

9. What can the federal. vernrnent do -ve the obstacles your

ndust aces in hirin ouch? What can it do to assi

loca 'education a

(a) Small Employers

Federal

encies on youth employment issues?

lic should eke into account the difficult Which

small businesses have in competing- -in wages, training, and promotionwith larger companies. It should also recognize the

special virtues which smaller firms can bring to meeting the

needs of disadvantaged youth.

Direct wage subsidies were of special interest to the small

businesses. If it were handled in a clear and simple manner,

a subsidy might overcome the 'risk factor' in hiring youth.

The small businesses did not feel that the paperwork and procedures involved in the Targeted Jobs Tax Credit would be

outweighed by the benefits.

CETA needs to reduce the fragmentation of its operations and

increase its public relations efforts if it is to induce greater

private sector interest.

(b) I,ar e Employers

Information on a variety of subjects, ranging from federal

economic policy to energy to CETA, does not flow effectively

from Washington to the nation. It was recommended that a new,

national initiative be started to remedy this problem.

Another appropriate role for the federal government would be to

act as a clearinghouse on successful youth programs and then,

actively seek to train local people to implement them.

There should be more flexibility in the wage structure for CETA

participants. Subsidies are, in of instances below those

ayr.0YEt2 man-.ni-ndustriesaidtoentrlevelw. The difference

in the wage structures has implications for the involvement of

many private companies in public training programs.

48
40

Individual companies might adopt individual high schools and

work closely with their staff to formulate effective career

education programs.

(c Education

There was strong advocacy for consolidated CETA grants instead

of the current categorical method for distributing funds.

The participants felt that the network of existing youth serving

programs should be recognized and strengthened. The pressure for

new programs should be altered in favor of activities aimed at

im-rovin the staff ualit administrative rocedures, and

fiscal resources of local agencies.

There is a great need for better information on successful

practices in other parts of the country. Curricula, program

models, and research data need to be disseminated more effectively than at present.

To some degree, federal programs are perceived as replacing

one group of unemployed with another rather than seeking fundamental solutions to an overall shortage of good work opportunities.

Community economic development policies and manpower training

were seen as inter-related. Community development funds and

CETA monies could be combined to create a more comprehensive

long term employment strategy for cities. Such a policy would

require that CETA's current focus on quick individual impacts

be amended.

Better incentives are needed in at least four areas: Prime

Sponsors need incentives which will promote effective.programming and management; schools need incentives--in the form, for

instance, of broader eligibility rules--if they are to take on

an expanded CETA role; and organized labor needs incentives if

it is to have a role in helping address the national crisis of

youth. And youths themselves need to be rewarded -- monetarily=

for good performance in CETA programs.
41

III. Format & Approach

The Roundtables were originally conceived to solicit the views - on a

regional basis - of educators and businesses. It was felt that a Roundtable

format -in which a limited number of le would meet informall to discuss

a set agenda made the most sense. The aim was to have meetings of ten to

fifteen people and to restrict their length to about three hours. Because

of the importance of the private sector issues and because of the known

differences between large and small employers, the private sector Roundtable

was divided into two meetings to take place in the morning and afternoon of

the same day. It was also felt, particularly at the initial stage of a discussion, that the proposed Education group should meet separately, on the

second day of each city Roundtable. The result was that the Roundtables

became tripartite sessions and the five cities uce fifteen different

meetings.

As the focus of the Roundtables narrowed to specific cities (rather than

region it quickly became apparent that the "Education" meeting would be

richer if broadened to include more than public school representatives.

Invitees to this session would reflect the range of youth-serving agencies

in each city, with a particular emphasis on those whose activities involved

educational issues. This session, then, would also include representatives

from the Prime Sponsor, the Human Resource Development Institute of the

AFL -CIO, post - secondary institutions, and the local National Alliance of

Business. (In some cities, HBO' and NABS representatives also attended the

private sector meetings.)

Once it was clear that there would be three well-defined "roundtables"

in each of the five cities, the following planning steps were undertaken:

A. Site and host selection

The cities were chosen with the idea of an approximate distribution

by region and size, but they were not intended to represent a rigorous

"sample" of opinion. Each of the cities - Birmingham, Hartford, Houston,
42

Los Angeles, and Chicago is a unique metropolis with distinct needs and

assets. The mix of industries, forms of municipal government, CRTA structures, educational systems, and population groups is quite diverse. Three

of them Los Angeles, Houston, and Birmingham - have experienced 15 to 20

years of fairly steady growth, although Los Angeles and Birmingham have seen

this expansion more on the periphery of the city than in its core. Birmingham

has a single minority, blacks, while Los Angeles and Chicago have several

substantial minority groups within their sprawling metropolitan areas. Both

Hartford and Houston are struggling with a rapidly growing Hispanic population whose needs are only beginning to surface in the conventional statistics.

The diversity of the ve cities is of particular note in relation

to the marked similarity of their responses to the basic Agenda. We will

return to this point, but it is important to recognize the likelihood that

any set of five cities would probably have provided a comparable cross-section

of national opinion on youth employment issues in the summer of 1979.

Once the cities were identified, steps were taken to choose and confirm

a host. In each case the goal was to find a host who would (1) have standing

in the community, (2) be capable of providing real staff assistance in

planning, and (3) have sufficient local knowledge to identify potential participants in each of the three categories (large and small business, education/

human services). In all cities, the company or institution originally identified agreed to host the Roundtable and provided excellent staff support.

These included:

Birmingham July 9-10

Hartford July 18-19

Los Angeles

Mayor David Vann

John Filer, Chairman, Aetna Life

and Casualty Company.

July 31-Aug. 1 Dr. Ruben Mettler, Chairman, TRW,

and national chairman,

Chauncey MedberrY, Chairman, Bank

of America
Houston Aug. 6-7 David Gottlieb, Dean, College of

Social Sciences, University of

Houston

Chicago Aug. 20-21 Robert MacGregor, President,

Chicago United;

The Continental Illinois National

Bank and Trust Company

Although the result was that three private' companies, one municipal

government,' and one university hosted the Roundtables, it would be impossible

to generalize much from this fact. All of the hosts were enthusiastic about

their roles and provided more than adequate assistance in carrying out the

meetings. As noted, it was important for each host to have stature in the

community in order to attract a good range of local participants. It may

be true, as well, that private sector participation can be facilitated through

having a local business Serve as host.

B. Selection of Participants

Again, there were no rigid formulas used to select those invited to

the Roundtables. The identification was a joint action by the local host,

the Center for Public Service, and the Task Force. General guidelines were

established for each of the sessions, local nominations were proposed by

the host, and these were then supplemented by recommendations from Brandeis

and the Task Force.

Large Employers were defined as either having over 500 local employees

or as having special local prominence (such as a major bank). Small businesses

then became anything smaller than 500; however, there were special efforts

made to include minority enterprises. This process resulted in several features of interest:

union contacts were difficult to make at first, although every

city ultimately had at least one representative from organized

labor;

many of the hosts, particularly the large corporations, did not

have the local contacts needed to identify small businesses

(this was remedied by Brandeis/Task Force interventions);
44

many employers with fewer than 500 local employees nevertheless

were substantial enterprises, often being local branches of

national corporations;

cities which identified very small companies (under 50 employees)

had some trouble confirming their attendance.

with the exception of Hartford, each of the cities did have a meeting

of genuinely small businesses and the participants included a significant

number of minority -Owned firms.

C. !leterials _development

A great deal of effort was spent developing materials and an agenda

for the sessions. It was felt from the outset that the agenda,would need to

be specific if the Sessions were to make good use of the three-hour time

and be legitimately blended into a summary report. The process for developing

the agenda questions involved a series of drafts that started with a long

list of potential issues and was then filtered into twelve questions: six

for business and six for education.

There was no pretense that these six questions were the best possible

formulation of the issues nor all inclusive in their reference to possible

areas of discussion. The language of the questions was aimed at drawing

from the participants' actual experiences in dealing with youth, CETA,

public schools, and private industry. In other words, we sought a level of

generality somewhere between operational details and national policy. Based

on the response of the participants, the Agenda seems to have succeeded.

The Agenda questions for the business sessions were as follows:

What does your coMpanylook for in ItM-JIMlpssioyhirin-let?

That do you see as the major barriers to hiring more youth in

your coMpany?

What contacts has your company had with local schools and with

CETA offices? How would you characterize them?
45

What changes do you anticipate in your company's work force

needs in the next five years?

What are the most effective ways to train young people for

employment? who should do what?

What can the federal government do to remove the obstacles

Your industry faces in hiring more youth? what can the public

schools do?

For the Education group the questions

Which educational programs have been most effective in preparing

youths for the world of work?

Do EllEallyIvispo have special career and vocational necTI

Is granting academic credit an important issue for proorl,.s

which serve out-of-school and older youth?

Has the 22% set-aside in the Youth Employment and Demonstration

Projects Act fostered relationships which will outlive present

funding?

What can be done to encourage more sc?peration between educational

institutions and the private sector?

What is the best way for the federal government to assist local

education agencies on youth employment issues?

The two sets of questions correlated well with each other so that responses

from all sessions could be collected under common headings.

In addition to the Agenda, several other items were developed 41b background for the Roundtables. A four page "paper" on youth employment was

prepared for inclusion in the participants' package (along with other materials

on the Task Force and Youth unemployment). This paper made no pretense of

phrasing the matter in a definitive way. Rather, it sought to summarize,

briefly and non-technically, the "universe of need", the purposes of YEDPA,

the role of the Task Force, and the impetus behind the R4 ndtable series.
46

As a means of assisting the Chair in conducting the Roundtables, an

extensive briefing paper was prepared for each of the five sites. This

paper had three major sections:

An overview on the purpose of the meeting, the host,

the people likely to attend, and a summary of major

demographic and CETA facts in that city.

An expansion of the program information, including

separate narratives on each of the major program operators - the prime sponsor, the public schools, and

community-based organizations.

An elaboration of the agenda questions to include

follow-up questions for each topic.

A fair amount of staff time was devoted to gathering accurate, current

information on the program delivery system in each city. The capability of

either the Prime Sponsor or any one subcontractor to present a comprehensive

picture of such services was found to be limited. Even allowing for the

"structural naivete" of outsiders probing a complex system, it was apparent

that no reliable inventory of local services is generally available, particularly one which includes non-CETA funded youth programs.

C. Data on the Roundtables

By any measure, the Roundtables were a success. They were well attended,

the participants took them seriously and used the limited time constructively,

and there was, in each city, a strong feeling that further "roundtables"

ought to take .lace which rin- educators and business le o ether The

positive tone of these meetings must be stressed in lieu of grand numbers

since the Roundtables were intentionally limited in size. Nevertheless, the

numbers are still pretty good: 222 people attended the fifteen individual

sessions, with the following breakdown:
47

City Large Employer Small Education

Birmingham 13 10 13

Hartford 17 13 20

Los Angeles 19 15 20

Houston 11 8 14

Chicago 17 10 22

total of 133 ivate businesses were re - resented, includin- 7

the nation's la -es a-ions. The cumulative impact of the business

involvement is noteworthy and suggests that the Task Force Roundtable

series may be a key source of current information on the private sector and

youth employment.

The Roundtables were chaired by several different people associated

with the Vice President's Task Force. The meetings were introduced by the

local host and then turned over to the chair. All of the sessions were

taped, but the participants were told that no comments would be attributed

and that the tapes would be used only to develop the necessary reports.

The meetings were chaired as follows:

Birmingham

Hartford

Los Angeles

Houston

Chicago

Jim Dyke, Special Assistant to Vice

President Mondale

Peter Edelman, Counsel to the Task Force

Jim Dyke and Tom Glynn, Executive Director

of the Task Force

William Spring, Associate Director, Domestic

Policy Staff, The White House

Jim Dyke

Bert Carp, Deputy Director, Domestic Policy

Staff, The White House

Erik Butler, Center for Public Service,

Brandeis University.

Some Conclusions about the Roundtables

There appeared to be a consensus on all sides that the EducationPrivate Sector Roundtables were an interesting and useful experience.

conclusions can be drawn for future activities:
48

A. Replicability

The Roundtable seems to be a good device for eliciting the productive

input of local practitioners in policy and it seems to be particularly

effective at involving the private sector in such a discussion. The

following elements contributed to that impression and may be essential to

replicating it:

Selectivity: they should be small enough to allow everyone

to participate and to give them a sense of having been

specially chosen;

Loca Credibility comes from a local host and assures

that the right people will be invited and that there will

be local assistance in the planning;

National Credibility is important if participants are to

take the meetings seriously; in the case of the Roundtables,

this came through the role of the Task Force and the people

chairing the meetings, and the legislative action which would

ensue;

Apt2E2R1ata Focus is supplied by an Agenda which is specific yet allows enough flexibility to incorporate local

interests;

Effective Planning can be attained through several means,

but was certainly enhanced by the "intermediary" role of

the Center for Public Service.

There is. also a local dimension to replication. In all five cities,

the participants expressed,a strong desire to get together on a regular

basis, through local Roundtables, for the purpose of improving local

communication and cooperation.

B. The Private Sector

The Roundtables way to discuss

issues with representatives of business and industry. Given the hosts

and the environment, the companies were eager to express their views
49

on a number of timely issues. In fact, the Roundtables may well constitute

one of the best, current samplings of private sector opinion available to

those formulating new youth employment policy. Although this sample is

limited, it includes 133 companies among which are 77 major corporations.

Although YEDPA was intended to test a variety of techniques for expanding the involvement of the private sector in youth employment, most

of the experiments in that direction are still in the process of being

implemented and evaluated. In the light of the status of these experiments, the comments of the 133 Roundtable participants take on added

weight. These comments ranged from general notions about effective

program strategies to specific (and timely) opinions on such things as

the Targeted Jobs Tax Credit, the Skills Training Improvement Program,

the minimum wage, the Private Industry Councils, changes in OJT regulations, and wage subsidies.

It would be easy to exaggerate the value of the accumulated comments

of Roundtable participants; however, given ten distinct private sector

meetings in five cities and nearly 1300 pages of transcripts, the value

of the Roundtables is real. It is reflected in this Final Report, but it

can also be gleaned through a review of the individual City Reports available from the Task Force.

* U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE : 1980 0 - 326-704