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### U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

PUBLIC HEARING:

**Carbon Pollution Standard for New Power Plants**

8:44 a.m. through 4:40 p.m. Thursday, May 24, 2012

Environmental Protection Agency Ariel Rios East Buildi ng 1201 Constitution Avenue Washington, D.C. 20460OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EPA PANEL:

**Reid Harvey** , Chief, Climate Economics Branch, Office of Atmospheric Programs **Joseph Goffman** , Senior Counsel, Office of Air and Radiation **Jim Ketcham**

**- Colwill** 

, Office of Air and Radiati on **Scott Jordan**

, Office of Air and RadiationOLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### C O N T E N T S Page Public Comments:

**Carol Whitman** , National Rural Electric Cooperative Association...................... 10 **Jennifer Kefer** , Alliance for Indus trial Efficiency................................... 17 **Sharon Steele** , Vice Mayor, St. Paul, Virginia........................... 24 **Akili West** , Resident, Ward 8, Washington, D.C.. 27 **Jim Hunter** , Director, Utility Department, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers...................................... 32 **Jonathan Morgenstein** , Operation Free........... 37 **Rob Talley** , Tri

- State Generation and Transmission Association..................... 41 **Keith Ware** , Principal, GLI, LLC................ 45 **Kalin Wi lliams**  , Earth's Visible Energy......... 51 **Christer Watson** , Associate Professor of Physics, Manchester College.................. 53 **Jalonne White**

**- Newsome**  , Union of Concerned Scientists................................... 55 **Brenda Afzal** , Alliance of Nurses for Healthy Environments......................... 61 **Katie Huffling** , American College for
Nurse

- Midwive s

......................... ......69 **Andre Sauvageot** , Interstate Travel Company..... 73 **Jackie Ward** , Resident, Ward 8, Washington, D.C................

.............. 80 **Kristin Cook** , Resident of Maryland............. 81 **Tyler Pidgeon** , Student, St. Lawrence University...................... 85 **Herschel Pecker** , National Wildlife Federation.. 88 **Mitchell Stout**

................................. 92 **Michael Greenbe rg**  , Senior, Charles E. Smith Day School; and Founder, Tar Sands Students.. 93 **Bill Cunningham** , Unions for Jobs in the Environment.................................. 98 **Kari Fulton** , Interim Director, Environmental Justice and C limate Change Initiative... ....103 **Tanya Roland**

... ...............................107OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) Page Public Comments: (continued)

**Ellis W. James** , Norfolk Environmental Commissioner. ...............................112 **Joe Cook** , Chesapeake Bay Clean Air Group......117 **Steve Segal** , Electric Reliability Coordinating Council........................122 **Steve Heinitz** , Resident of Mechanicsville, Virginia..... ...............................130 **Daniel Lasho f**  , Director,Clima te and Clean Air Program, Nati onal Resources Defense Council.133 **Margaret Bowker** , Resident of Alexandria, Virginia..... ...............................138 **Peter Altman** , Climate Campaign Director, Natural Reso urces Defense Council..........143 **Derek M eyer** 

.... ...............................148 **Ertle Mitchell**

. ...............................150 **Pete Roquemore**
, Union of Concerned Scientists.153 **Phillip Collins** , Esq., D.C. Environment Meetup Group and Sierra Club................159 **Paul Ryder** , Vie nna, Vir ginia..................163 **Amanda Formica**

, SustainUS.....................166 **David Redding**

, Virginia Organizing............171 **Henry Ickes** , Ar lington, Virginia..............174 **Richard Whiteford** , Climate Reality Project....177 **Alexa Manning**

.. .............. .................179 **Jay Butera** , One Million Calls for Clean Energy. ...............................186 **Charlotte Leeks** , Pennsauken, New Jersey.......191 **Elaine Pirozzi**

, Moms Rising...................194 **Marianne Hilger t**  , Moms Rising.................197
**G ary Ewart**  , Director, Government Relations, American Thor acic Society...................204 **Mike Sandler**

... ...............................208 **Myra Blake, Esq.** , Southern Environmental Law Center, representing the Fall

- line Alliance for a Clean Environm ent, the Ogeechee Riverkeeper, and the Southern Alliance for Clean Energy........................ ........213OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) Page Public Comments: (continued)

**Dawud Ummah** , Farmer from Maine

.... ............220 **Rita Kantarowski** , Boston, Massachusetts .......224 **Sheila Brown** , G eorgia State Conference, NAACP.230 **Elbridge James** , Maryland NAACP................236 **Sarah Saylor** , E arthjustice....................242 **Roger Diedrich**

. ......................... ......247 **Arretta Keefer**

. ...............................249 **Whitney Byrd** , W ise Energy for Virginia........257 **Joe Elcox** , National Wildlife Federation, Dedham, Massa chusetts.......................263 **Susan Edwards** , Volunteer, Sie rra Club.........267 **Myren e O'Connor**  ...............................271 **Janet Fishman**

, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.....275 **John Comella** , Philadelphia, Pennsylvania...... 277 **Brian Crenshaw**

. ...............................279 **William Kramer**

, Sierra Club...................283 **Briana Liu**

, Roc kville, Maryland...............286 **Susan Davis**

.... ...............................293 **Jennie Gosche** , Photographer, Kensington, Maryland..... ...............................295 **Don Halbert**

.... ...............................301 **George Edwards**

. ........... ....................306 **Curtis Atkinson** , NAACP........................310 **Deborah McKinney**

, W ard 7, Washington, D.C. .....316 **Steve Harvey** , Philadelphia, Pennsylvani a......318 **Royal Mayo** , Ohi o State Conference of NAACP....321 **Doug Peters** , Op eration Free Vete rans..........327 **Jennifer Janssen** , Great Lakes Regional Center, National Wild life Federation................334 **Sarah Meservey**

, Arlington, Virginia...........338 **Susana Hildebrand** , Chief Engineer, Texas Commission on Environmental Quality.........344 **Erin O'Sullivan** , Moms Clean Air Force.........352 **Melinda Erdberg** , Sierra Club of Alexandria, Virginia..... ...............................357 **Leslie Fields** , Sierra Club of Washington D.C.............................. 360OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1



### MR. HARV EY: Good morning. Thank you for 2



### attending this public hearing. My name is Reid 3



### Harvey. I am the chief of the Economics Branch 4



### in EPA's Office of Atmospheric Programs. I will 5



### be chairing the hearing today. 6



### Joining me on the panel are Joe Goffman, 7



### seni or counsel in EPA's Office of Air and 8



### Radiation, and Jim Ketcham

- Colwill, also with 9



### EPA's Office and Air and Radiation. All three of 10



### us are here in Washington, D.C. 11



### We are here today to listen to your 12



### comments on EPA's proposed carbon pollution 13



### standard for new power plants. EPA published a 14



### proposed standard in the Federal Register on 15



### April 13, 2012. This common

- sense step under the 16



### Clean Air Act would for the first time set 17



### national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 18



### power plants built in the fut ure can emit. 19



### For future power plants, EPA is proposing 20



### to set an output

- based standard of 1,000 pounds 21



### of CO 2 

### per megawatt hour. The agency's proposal 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### does not apply to existing units or to planned 1



### units that have already received permits and 2



### break grou nd within the next 12 months. 3



### EPA's proposed standard reflects the 4



### ongoing trend in the power sector to build 5



### cleaner plants that take advantage of 6



### American

- made technologies. The proposal is 7



### flexible and would help minimize carbon pollution 8



### through depl oyment of the same types of modern 9



### technologies that power companies are already 10



### using to built the next generation of power 11



### plants. EPA's proposal would ensure that this 12



### progress towards a cleaner, safer, and more 13



### modern power sector continues. 14



### Today, w e will be accepting oral comments 15



### on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 16



### prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 17



### transcript will be available as part of the 18



### official record for this rule. We are also 19



### accepting written comments on the propos ed rule 20



### until June 25, 2012. 21



### At the registration area, which is in the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### hallway out there, there are handouts with 1



### detailed information for submitting written 2



### comments by mail, fax, or electronically. EPA 3



### will consider your comments as we move forward to 4



### complete a final rule. 5



### Now let me describe the procedures we 6



### will use for today's hearing. 7



### I will call the scheduled speakers to the 8



### table in pairs. It's this table here. When it 9



### is your turn to speak, please state your name and 10



### your affiliation before you begin your testimony. 11



### It will also help our court reporter if you 12



### spell your name. 13



### In order to be fair to everyone, we will 14



### limit your testimony to 5 minutes each, and we 15



### will ask that you remain at the table until both 16



### speakers in the pair have fin ished. 17



### After you finish your testimony, members 18



### of the panel may ask clarifying questions. 19



### However, we are not here to respond to questions 20



### from you. If in addition to the transcript of 21



### your testimony, you would also like us to put the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### full text of your written comments into the 1



### docket, please be sure to give a copy of any 2



### written comments to our staff at the registration 3



### table. 4



### We have a time

- keeping system, consisting 5



### of green, yellow, and red lights to help you 6



### track your 5 minutes. When you begin s peaking, 7



### the green light will come on. The yellow light 8



### will signal that you have 1 minute left to speak, 9



### and the red light comes on, 5 minutes have 10



### passed, and I will ask you to please complete 11



### your testimony. I will be firm about that. 12



### Today's hearing is scheduled from 8:30 13



### and will continue till 4:30 or later, if 14



### necessary, depending on the number of speakers. 15



### The hearing will go on recess during the 16



### scheduled lunch break from 12 noon until 1 p.m. 17



### We will reconvene promptly at 1 p.m., and if 18



### you'd l ike to testify but are not yet registered 19



### to do so, please sign up at the registration 20



### table in the hallway out of this room. For those 21



### of you who have already registered to speak, we 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### have tried to accommodate your request for 1



### specific time slots. We ask for your patience as 2



### we proceed through the list of speakers, and we 3



### may need to make some adjustments as the day 4



### proceeds. 5



### If any questions arise throughout the 6



### day, please see a staff member at the 7



### registration table for assistance. 8



### So thank you all a gain for participating 9



### today. Let's get started. Our first pair of 10



### speakers is Carol Whitman and Jennifer Kefer. So 11



### if you'll go to the table, I'll ask Carol Whitman 12



### to be first and Jennifer Kefer to be second. 13



### [Technical interruption.] 14



### MR. HARVEY: A re you all ready? Okay, so 15



### we will begin. 16



### MS. WHITMAN: Okay. My name is Carol 17



### Whitman, C

- A

- R

- O

- L, Whitman, W

- H

- I

- T

- M

- A

- N, and 18



### I'm representing the National Rural Electric 19



### Cooperative Association. 20



### Good morning. On behalf of the National 21



### Rural Electric Cooperative Association, I 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### appreciate the opportunity to address aspects of 1



### EPA's proposed Clean Air Act Section 111 NSPS 2



### that immediately impose CO 2 

### standards on new 3



### natural gas combined cycle and fossil fuel, 4



### steam, electric generating units. We will b e 5



### submitting written comments to the docket 6



### detailing all our legal and policy concerns. 7



### My comments today will address the 8



### proposal's two major assumptions: one, that 9



### natural gas will be available and affordable when 10



### and where future baseload electric g eneration is 11



### needed anywhere throughout the country; and two, 12



### that those efforts to develop carbon mitigation 13



### technology, referred to as carbon capture and 14



### storage, will be enhanced by this proposal. 15



### NRECA is the national service 16



### organization for more tha n 900 not

- for

- profit 17



### rural electric utilities that provide electric 18



### service to approximately 42 million consumers in 19



### 47 States. Cooperative generation provides for 20



### 41 percent of all electric cooperative consumer 21



### needs. Eighty percent of this generation i s 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### coal

- fired. 1



### Although our membership is relying more 2



### on natural gas in recent years to generate 3



### electricity, we believe that national policies 4



### should not effectively foreclose coal as an 5



### option for new generation as this does. 6



### EPA has identified no dire ct benefits 7



### associated with this proposal. Its rationale 8



### seems to stem from two major EPA suppositions: 9



### first, that natural gas is both affordable and 10



### available throughout the continental U.S. to 11



### power a significant increase in the nation's 12



### baseload of e lectric generation into the future; 13



### and second, that implementing a presently 14



### unachievable CO 2 

### and NSPS for coal plants will 15



### significantly spur the commercial development of 16



### technology to enable new coal

- fired generation to 17



### meet the NSPS in the future. Bo th of these 18



### suppositions are false. 19



### Regarding natural gas availability, EPA 20



### correctly excludes Hawaii and U.S. noncontinental 21



### territories from the proposed NSPS because of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### natural gas pipeline unavailability, but the 1



### agency fails to address the question o f whether 2



### natural gas is available throughout the 3



### continental U.S. New electric generating units 4



### must be situated to ensure electric grid 5



### stability and the liability, locating new 6



### baseload generation at sites where adequate 7



### electric transmission exists an d where natural 8



### gas capacity is contemporaneously available as 9



### well. 10



### In many geographic areas of the country, 11



### significant new natural gas baseload generation 12



### cannot be built because of natural gas or 13



### electric transmission inadequacies. This 14



### proposal igno res these siting impediments and 15



### instead focuses only on computer model 16



### projections and future wholesale natural gas 17



### prices. 18



### Historically, the government has 19



### consistently failed to accurately predict future 20



### natural gas prices. The significant exportation s 21



### of U.S. natural gas anticipated in just several 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### years, natural gas markets will likely have 1



### national gas pricing implications. 2



### The cost of electricity from natural gas 3



### generation is a strong function of this fuel's 4



### price. No one knows how much natural gas will be 5



### available in certain regions and certainly not 6



### what the future delivered price may be. 7



### This proposal, however, would force the 8



### electric utility industry to use only natural gas 9



### in vast regions of the country for new baseload 10



### generation where n ew nuclear has no promise. 11



### NRECA has recognized that national 12



### policies may result in the need to develop and 13



### commercialize technologies that reliably and cost 14



### effectively capture and sequester carbon from 15



### fossil fuel electric generation. We have 16



### particip ated in several national coalitions, 17



### directed significant individual organizational 18



### efforts to support scientific research and 19



### demonstration projects, and supported policy 20



### initiatives that we hope will lead to 21



### commercialization of CCS technologies to gener ate 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### -- allow a generation from fossil fuel. 1



### We would like to continue these 2



### endeavors, because we believe the nation must 3



### retain the coal option to generate power. 4



### One of our members, South Mississippi 5



### Electric Cooperative, has partnered with 6



### Mississippi Power in the Kemper project that is 7



### designed to generate electricity from coal and 8



### provide CO 2 

### for enhanced oil recovery. 9



### Another cooperative member, Basis 10



### Electric, has operated Dakota Gasification 11



### separates CO 2 

### for EOR for years. The ability to 12



### seques ter EOR is geographically limited, and deep 13



### well geologic sequestration is in the 14



### developmental stages and must be perfected for 15



### CCS to become viable throughout the US. 16



### The presumption that this proposal will 17



### spur and encourage commercialization of geolog ic 18



### sequestration is misguided. The proposal 19



### maintains that geologic sequestration technology 20



### is feasible and practically commercialized based 21



### on operations of several existing facilities 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### within the U.S., but the administration's own 1



### interagency task force on carbon capture noted 2



### only when financial, economic, technological, 3



### legal, and institutional barriers are addressed 4



### will CCS be a viable option. 5



### None of the commercial integrated CCS 6



### facilities cited in the proposal's quest for CO 2 7



### for geologic sequest ration well storage. None 8



### have undergone permitting process, acquisition 9



### space, fully assessed and assumed the cost 10



### liabilities. So only when the facilities are 11



### permitting and operated for years will the 12



### feasibility enter the viability. 13



### Thank you very m uch. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 15



### We propose that Jennifer Kefer to speak 16



### next, and then if we have clarification 17



### questions, both of you stay there, and we can ask 18



### those questions. 19



### MS. KEFER: [Speaking off mic.] 20



### MR. HARVEY: The yellow light, would you 21



### lik e to be told when it goes on? Is that

-- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MS. KEFER: [Speaking off mic.] 1



### ATTENDEE: It means 1 minute left. 2



### MR. HARVEY: One minute, yes. It just 3



### means one minute. 4



### MS. KEFER: I am going to spell my name. 5



### We have a carefully timed 5 minutes. I am g oing 6



### to spell my name. You don't start yet, right? 7



### It's Jennifer Kefer, K

- E

- F

- E

- R, speaking on 8



### behalf of the Alliance for Industrial Efficiency. 9



### MR. HARVEY: Are you ready? 10



### MS. KEFER: I want to thank you for the 11



### opportunity to testify today on the pro posed 12



### carbon standards for new utilities. As I said, I 13



### am speaking on behalf of the Alliance for 14



### Industrial Efficiency. We are a diverse 15



### coalition that includes representatives from the 16



### labor, contractor, environmental, and business 17



### communities, and we a re joining together to 18



### advocate for ways to advance combined heat and 19



### power and waste heat recovery. 20



### Most importantly, I want to commend EPA 21



### for your growing recognition about the role that 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### energy efficiency has to play. 1



### As was recognized in the sensitiv ity 2



### analysis that EPA performed for the utility map, 3



### this is really the most cost

- effective means of 4



### reducing emissions. In that analysis, you found 5



### that a small set of energy efficiency measures 6



### can reduce compliance costs under that rule by 7



### $11 million by the year 2020. 8



### On a larger scale, we see even greater 9



### benefits from combined heat and power listed 10



### recovery. In 2008, Department of Energy's Oak 11



### Ridge National Laboratory found that CHP can 12



### provide 20 percent of U.S. electric capacity by 13



### the year 2030 , and with that full

- scale 14



### deployment, you would provide 1 million new jobs 15



### in the design, construction, installation, and 16



### maintenance of CHP equipment, and how carbon 17



### reduction is comparable to removing one

- half of 18



### the passenger vehicles off the road. 19



### No w, many of those types of projects 20



### could occur at utilities. We see that just a few 21



### hours south of here in Hopewell, Virginia, have 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the St. James cogeneration facility. It's a 100

- 1



### megawatt coal

- fired facility that is selling 2



### electricity to the local coop erative and then 3



### transferring thermal energy, steam, to the 4



### adjacent Honeywell chemical manufacturing 5



### facility. 6



### And we are hopeful that as EPA moves 7



### forward in the near future with policies for 8



### existing sources that they will find ways to have 9



### additional incentives to encourage those types of 10



### utility

- industrial collaborations. 11



### We are very grateful to see that there's 12



### pieces in this rule that encourage those types of 13



### collaborations, and in particular the use of an 14



### output

- based standard goes a long way. Th is is 15



### something we urged EPA to do last year during the 16



### NSPS listening sessions, and we are gratified to 17



### see its inclusion in the proposed rule. 18



### I do, however, offer a few modest 19



### recommendations to improve the output

- based 20



### standard. As you know, utilitie s produce two 21



### forms of energy. There's both electricity and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### thermal energy, or heat, and the applicable 1



### standard for this rule recognizes thermal output, 2



### which is a great thing, but it provides a 3



### discount for that output using a 75

- percent 4



### multiplier. We would encourage EPA to provide 5



### full credit fro the full thermal energy produced 6



### from ACHP system. 7



### We are also concerned that folks might 8



### not even be aware that this credit exists. It's 9



### only mentioned right now in the definition 10



### section for gross output, and we suggest it be 11



### elevated to be included in the preamble. 12



### We also would encourage EPA to 13



### incorporate some guidelines, so facilities know 14



### how to accurately measure their thermal output, 15



### and that would create greater accountability. 16



### EPA says in the pr oposed rule that you 17



### intend to offer a line loss credit for avoided 18



### transmission and distribution losses associated 19



### with the CHP system. Transmission and 20



### distribution line losses are a significant 21



### problem with electricity in the United States. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EIA report s that on average, 7 percent of our 1



### electricity is lost in this way, and this is one 2



### of the great virtues of distributed generation 3



### that you avoid the line losses associated with 4



### centralized power. 5



### However, here is the irony. For a CHP 6



### facility to be c overed by the rule, it needs to 7



### sell large quantities of its power back to the 8



### grid, and so the rationale supporting the line 9



### loss credit is actually lost for that portion of 10



### the power that is sold long distances. 11



### Instead, we would suggest that EPA award 12



### a line loss credit for CHP systems for the 13



### electricity that is used on site or where it can 14



### be demonstrated that line losses are minimized by 15



### optimal location of the sales. 16



### Where such a credit is appropriate, we 17



### think that 5 percent is too small, and that it 18



### should be increased to 7 percent to match the 19



### actual line losses that were seen in the United 20



### States, which can be 20 percent during periods of 21



### peak loads. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### If these modest changes are made, we 1



### don't think there's any need to grant an 2



### exemption for CHP as EPA proposes in the rule. 3



### In fact, we think that there's some general 4



### disfavor to exempting preferred technologies, and 5



### CHP can hold its own weight with these modest 6



### changes. 7



### In fact, a coal

- fired CHP facility with a 8



### back pressure steam turbine could beat the 1,000 9



### pounds carbon per megawatt hour standard in the 10



### proposed rule. 11



### I look forward to supplementing these 12



### comments in our written comments, I will submit 13



### for the 25th deadline. 14



### Again, thank you for the opportunity to 15



### testify today. 16



### MR. HARVEY : Thank you very much. 17



### Let me see if our panelists have any 18



### clarifying questions. No? 19



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: On the reference to 20



### the Mississippi company that was involved with 21



### EOR, I just wanted to clarify whether that was a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### carbon capture application. 1



### MS. KEFER: Yes. I believe that's the 2



### new plant that's being constructed. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both. 4



### MS. KEFER: Thank you very much. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Our next pair of speakers

-- 6



### and for those of you who are new, the logistics 7



### are that I'm going to cal l you up in pairs, have 8



### each of you stay while the other speaks. We'll 9



### take clarifying questions, and then having gone 10



### through that, it will make the flow easier. 11



### So our next pair of speakers are Sharon 12



### Steele and Akili West. 13



### [Technical interruption.] 14



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah, I noticed that too. 15



### Yeah, the audio is not great, but if you can 16



### speak loudly so we can hear you

-- there's a lot 17



### of fan noise

-- and our reporter can year you 18



### accurately, that would help. 19



### So, Ms. Steele, if you could introduce 20



### yoursel f and spell your name for the court 21



### reporter, please. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MS. STEELE: Good morning. I am Sharon 1



### Steele, S

- H

- A

- R

- O

- N, S

- T

- E

- E

- L

- E, vice mayor of 2



### the Town of St. Paul, Virginia. St. Paul is 3



### located in the coal fields of the far southwest 4



### Virginia. I am spea king today to share my 5



### concerns about EPA's newest regulations on coal 6



### fuel

- powered plans and the devastating effect 7



### these regulations will have on thousands of 8



### working families in our area. 9



### The two primary types of coal mines in 10



### southwest Virginia are me tallurgical and steam. 11



### There seems to be a shift from the steam market 12



### due to the uncertainty of the future of coal

13



### fired power plants. 14



### Coal employment is the major industry in 15



### Wise, Russell, Tazewell, Buchanan, and Dickenson 16



### Counties of southwest Virgin ia. Stringent EPA 17



### regulations will lead to reduction of the 18



### workforce in an area already with a struggling 19



### economy. Employment opportunities in southwest 20



### Virginia are dependent on the coal industry. The 21



### standards in economics is for every dollar lost 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in wages, there are $7 lost in the overall 1



### economy. 2



### With these new regulations, a domino 3



### effect will occur. First, we will see impact on 4



### coal revenues, trucking companies, heavy 5



### equipment companies, suppliers, et cetera. Then 6



### we'll come to loss of jobs in these industries, 7



### and the trickle

- down effect will continue. This 8



### will affect working people of our country. How 9



### much of the cost of making these new regulations 10



### will be passed on to the average consumer? 11



### There are too many people in my area who 12



### alread y are struggling to pay high electric and 13



### heat bills. How are they going to afford them if 14



### they lose their job as well? People should not 15



### have to choose between food and heat. 16



### Policies designed to prevent the 17



### construction of new clean coal power plants will 18



### cause unnecessary hardship on the people in my 19



### area and all across the State of Virginia. 20



### Thirty

- percent of the electricity in Virginia is 21



### generated from coal. Energy crisis and dormant 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### incomes are already straining the households of 1



### our lower and m iddle class families. If EPA 2



### moves forward with policies to prevent the 3



### construction of new coal power plants, it is 4



### inevitable that we will see higher electricity 5



### rates, higher natural gas prices, job losses, and 6



### future electric reliability sources. 7



### Are we going to depend on nuclear power 8



### with all its environmental woes or natural gas to 9



### monopolize production of electricity, seeing the 10



### price of electricity rising at an unprecedented 11



### rate? In recent years, there has been 12



### significant employment in coal pl ants

-- 13



### improvements in coal plants, including a 14



### reduction in emission of 90 percent per unit of 15



### generated electricity. Coal is still a very 16



### viable and affordable resource. 17



### I have always supported clean air and 18



### stand today in strong support of clean coal power 19



### plants, but I am asking the EPA to withdraw the 20



### rigid proposed regulations that requires 21



### installation of technology that isn't yet 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### available. It should not be the goal of the EPA 1



### to harm the families where the economic structure 2



### of the lower and mi ddle class families or 3



### anywhere in America. 4



### Thank you. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 6



### Mr. West. 7



### MR. WEST: Okay. My name is Akili West, 8



### spelled A

- K

- I

- L

- I. Last name, West. Good 9



### morning, and thank you of providing the 10



### opportunity today to testify on behalf of a small 11



### corner of the world which I affectionately call 12



### the President's Back Yard, the communities of 13



### Ward 8 in Washington, D.C. 14



### I stand before you as a citizen, a 15



### father, a mentor, an activist, an educator, and 16



### finally as an entrepreneur representing those 17



### with the audacity to hope that we as a country 18



### will make the tough choices that bring the 19



### necessary shift to cleaner, more sustainable 20



### means of producing and managing the energy which 21



### powers our lives. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Now, people in my area of the world pay 1



### twice f or energy. They pay for a natural rate, 2



### which it comes to their bill, and they pay in 3



### terms of health with the clouds and plumes of 4



### sulfur dioxide and nitrous oxide which comes from 5



### plants such as the Mirant plant, the GenOn plant 6



### in Alexandria, which we fought hard to close last 7



### year. 8



### This comes down river. It pollutes our 9



### air. It pollutes our water, and as a result, we 10



### have some of the highest incidence of asthma in 11



### this region. 12



### That particular action, which we and many 13



### others

-- we in Ward 8 and man y others around the 14



### city and around the country, organizations which 15



### are represented here today and some which are 16



### not, was an example of good policies being able

- 17



### - of good policies giving people the power to 18



### effect change and effect the type of change wh ich 19



### they want for themselves and their future. 20



### Our President, Barack Obama, has done so 21



### far than any president in my lifetime to seek and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### support alternatives, while realizing that the 1



### balance, which must be kept as we make this power 2



### shift, there must be a balance. 3



### Now, the progressive policies of this 4



### administration such as the proposed carbon 5



### control standards, which I'm here to support 6



### today, are steps in the right direction, and I 7



### urge you to continue with these types of actions. 8



### While some may ask what is the cost of 9



### doing this now, I ask what is the cost of 10



### waiting. Laws and standards such as the proposed 11



### empower people by providing a powerful tool of 12



### recourse for American citizens against big 13



### businesses who pollute. 14



### Now, one good example of this is, again, 15



### the Mirant plant in Alexandria owned by Genon. 16



### Last summer, my business hired 16 young Ward 8 17



### and Ward 7 young folks, and we taught them the 18



### ins and outs of energy, energy efficiency, and 19



### these were folks who had never paid an energy 20



### bill. Th ese were folks who were not informed as 21



### to how the energy they used was produced, and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### when they were, they were alarmed. 1



### When they did learn about the GenOn plant 2



### and other coal

- fired plants, they were alarmed. 3



### When they were able to relate the health pr oblems 4



### that come as a result of these emissions to their 5



### everyday lives, they were very alarmed, and as a 6



### result, they wrote letters to their mayor to push 7



### them to do the right thing under EPA Section 126. 8



### And I've got two of those letters right 9



### here with me today, and I think they are much 10



### more poignant than anything else that I could 11



### say. So I'd like to finish off with those. 12



### Again, these were written in support, and 13



### I don't actually think I brought the two that I 14



### meant to bring, but this one is from M r. Dale 15



### Rollins, a young 18

- year

- old here in the 16



### District. He says, "Dear Mayor Gray, my name is 17



### Dale Rollins. I am a current sophomore student 18



### at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore. 19



### Also, I'm a Summer Youth employee who assists Mr. 20



### Akili West as a weatherization assistant. I 21



### wrote this thank

- you letter to express my 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### gratitude towards your action of suing the 1



### Potomac River generation station, because of 2



### their constant and continuous use and production 3



### of sulphur dioxide. This is problematic towar d 4



### many in our ward, because it negatively affects 5



### the air we breathe. It pollutes our earth 6



### tremendously. We also do not have enough proper 7



### health treatments to support our medical issues. 8



### So, at the most, I applaud your grave and 9



### gracious act in suppor t of this company's 10



### resentful action

-- or against this company's 11



### resentful action hurting our environment." 12



### Another one, quickly, "My name is Danetta 13



### Johnson representing the Ward 8 Renewable Energy 14



### Co

- op. I am writing to you to say thanks for 15



### getting o n the project of stopping the Genom 16



### plant. I am a resident of Ward 8 where I was 17



### born and raised, and I am affected with asthma. 18



### I understand the chemicals in the air are 19



### dangerous and are affecting lots of people in my 20



### area. I am thankful that you are joining the 21



### fight to work on our behalf." 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### And so I thank you for your time. 1



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 2



### Do we have questions? 3



### [No response.] 4



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Thank you both. 5



### Our next pair of speakers is Jim Hunter 6



### and Jonathan Morgenstein. 7



### We'll start with Mr. Hunter. If you 8



### could just

-- 9



### Do you need people to spell their names 10



### for you every time? 11



### Okay. So I think you can begin without 12



### spelling your name, Mr. Hunter. 13



### MR. HUNTER: All right. It's a fairly 14



### easy one to get. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Right. 16



### MR. HUNTER: Good afternoon. I'm Jim 17



### Hunter. I am the director of the Utility 18



### Department for the International Brotherhood of 19



### Electrical Workers. 20



### MR. HARVEY: Can you hold on for one 21



### second? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### [Pause.] 1



### MR. HARVEY: Pardon me. Could you just 2



### res et it and start from the beginning? Please. 3



### Please start again. 4



### MR. HUNTER: All right. Good afternoon. 5



### I'm Jim Hunter. I am the director of the 6



### Utility Department for the International 7



### Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. 8



### We have about 20,000 members that work in 9



### the coal

- fired power plants across the country, 10



### in the U.S. and Canada, and we are impacted, 11



### obviously, by the CO 2 

### emission rules. 12



### We believe that the propose rule is 13



### fatally flawed by combining conventional steam 14



### electric generating units w ith natural gas 15



### combined

- cycle units in a single category. 16



### EPA has a 40

- year history of setting 17



### separate new source performance standards for 18



### steam electric generating units, and there's no 19



### reason to depart from that tradition. 20



### The IBEW recommends that EPA re

- propose 21



### this rule providing NSPS for steam electric 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### generating units fueled by coal, oil, or natural 1



### gas and a separate category for natural gas 2



### combined

- cycle units. 3



### We have four principal reasons for this. 4



### The first is that the rule should be co nsistent 5



### with EPA's best available control technology, the 6



### guidance that was issued in 2011. The back 7



### guidance for major new stationary sources require 8



### the application of carbon capture and storage 9



### technology simply requires that CCS be considered 10



### in the permitting process. 11



### The proposed rule mandates CCS for new 12



### units either day one of a standard of 1,000 13



### pounds per CO 2 

### megawatt hour or an average over a 14



### 30

- year lifetime. CCS has not been commercially 15



### demonstrated at utility scale applications in the 16



### cou ntry, and the technology is not economically 17



### feasible in the absence of the carbon market, 18



### bonus allowances or similar methods of offsets to 19



### the additional cost. 20



### The Interagency Task Force on CCS 21



### recognized these facts in their 2010 report. EPA 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### acknowled ges in their proposed rule that CCS 1



### raises the cost of generating electricity from 2



### new coal units by about 80 percent. 3



### Second proposed rule creates an 4



### unworkable permitting and financing process for 5



### coal units that may plan to comply by installing 6



### CCS 10 years or more after the initial operation. 7



### Obtaining a construction permit would require 8



### the CCS components of the plant be engineered and 9



### contracted a decade or more in advance, covering 10



### all aspects of CCS transportation and storage 11



### process, including li ability coverage. 12



### We don't believe it would be possible to 13



### contract the CCS components of a plant so far in 14



### advance or obtain financing for the future 15



### applications of a technology that has not been 16



### commercially demonstrated to scale. 17



### Third, the rule woul d force utilities to 18



### rely on natural gas combined

- cycle units 19



### regardless of the future natural gas prices. We 20



### have estimated over 50 gigawatts of coal capacity 21



### coming offline in the next 3 to 5 years in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### response to EPA's mercury and air toxic rules, 1



### causi ng the loss of tens of thousands of jobs not 2



### only at the power plants but in transportation 3



### and coal mining. 4



### Natural gas prices are sure to increase 5



### in response to the higher gas demand by 6



### utilities. Utilities need to have the option of 7



### building new adva nced coal capacity. This 8



### proposal would eliminate construction even though 9



### the cleanest coal plants equipped with backed 10



### technology such as scrubbers, SCR, bag hazards, 11



### and mercury control. 12



### Finally, the IBEW's work with Congress to 13



### ensure that any climat e language

-- legislation 14



### include language that requires our trading 15



### partners to also reduce their CO 2 

### emissions if the 16



### U.S. commits to a reduction strategy. The EPA 17



### policy on CO 2 

### reductions would force the U.S. to 18



### act to reduce CO 2 

### while allowing our com petitors 19



### to release emissions without restriction, giving 20



### them another competitive advantage. 21



### The climate change issue is a global one 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and can't be solved by the U.S. alone. 1



### Thank you. 2



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 3



### Mr. Morgenstein. 4



### MR. MORGENSTEIN: Good mo rning. My name 5



### is actually Jonathan "Morgenstein." 6



### MR. HARVEY: "Morgenstein." Sorry. 7



### MR. MORGENSTEIN: M

- O

- R

- G

- E

- N

- S

- T

- E

- I

- N, 8



### and Jonathan is J

- O

- N

- A

- T

- H

- A

- N. 9



### I served 21 years in the Marine Corps 10



### Reserves, including two tours in Iraq and one in 11



### Bosn ia, and additionally, I spent most of the 12



### last 2 years as a civilian at the Pentagon. I am 13



### not speaking of behalf of the Marine Corps or the 14



### DoD or the U.S. Government. I am, however, 15



### representing Operation Free, which is a network 16



### of veterans across the country who believe our 17



### nation's fossil fuel addiction and our 18



### contribution to climate change threaten our 19



### national security. 20



### I'm not a scientist, so I take the word 21



### of the exhaustive list of scientific 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### organizations, U.S. and globally, that have said 1



### th at climate change is both real and 2



### significantly caused by human production of 3



### greenhouse gases. 4



### I do, however, know that this climate 5



### change has caused global devastating and 6



### threatens American interests and our national 7



### security. So I want to talk with you about by 8



### enacting these standards, the EPA will reduce the 9



### risks and impacts of climate change and thereby 10



### save lives across the earth and make America 11



### safer. 12



### First, consider Somalia where climate 13



### change has induced and exacerbated drought and 14



### famine , leading to poverty, social 15



### disintegration, extremist violence, and piracy. 16



### Climate change in Somalia has spawned a 17



### spectacular array of national security threats to 18



### the U.S. and our allies. 19



### Al

- Shabaab born in the droughts of 20



### Somalia is a self

- proclaime d Al

- Qaeda

- affiliated 21



### terrorist group. They have not only executed 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### successful terrorist attacks against our friends 1



### in Kenya and Uganda, but they have actively and 2



### successfully recruited Americans to execute 3



### terrorist attacks against Americans on American 4



### soil. 5



### Somali pirates, while the subject of 6



### jokes very often, they cost the U.S. military in 7



### 2009 alone $64 million and the global economy 8



### just last year $12 billion. By combatting 9



### greenhouse gases at home and thereby climate 10



### change, we are combatting th e fertile ground of 11



### extremism and violence around the world. 12



### Second, the genocide in Darfur in Western 13



### Sudan is perhaps the most vivid example of 14



### conflict caused by climate change. Between 2004 15



### and 2009, out of a population of 7 million 16



### people, over 450, 000 people were killed; over 3 17



### million people were forced from their homes. The 18



### basic reason for this conflict was the expanding 19



### southward of the Sahara Desert and the resulting 20



### inter

- ethnic conflicts over arable land and 21



### water. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Let me end with this thir d troubling 1



### scenario. Imagine that the single country in the 2



### world most drastically affected by climate change 3



### is a fragile nuclear arms state, one that has 4



### limped along for decades on the edge of total 5



### political collapse, plagued by pervasive 6



### corruption and networks of violent religious 7



### extremists, and, of course, we're talking about 8



### Pakistan where experts estimate that one

- quarter 9



### of Pakistan's land area and half its population 10



### are vulnerable to climate change

- related 11



### disasters. 12



### Flooding in 2010 covered one

- fifth of the 13



### entire country, significantly caused by melting 14



### glaziers from climate change. If we do not slow 15



### climate change and its devastating effects, the 16



### rate and scale of resulting global violence will 17



### escalate rapidly over decades. The price of our 18



### continued carbon pollution will continued to be 19



### paid in economic devastating around the globe. 20



### It takes a long time, but that externality does 21



### come back home to roost, and we, the United 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### States, do pay the price, even if it's not up 1



### front and it's no t so obvious. 2



### So the EPA does have a responsibility to 3



### impose these regulations to drive down these 4



### externalities, to reduce the cost to the world 5



### and to American national security. In the long 6



### run by combatting carbon pollution at home, 7



### installing or re versing the tide of climate 8



### change, we are combatting the fertile ground of 9



### extremism and violence globally and keeping 10



### America safe. 11



### Thank you. 12



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. Thank you very 13



### much. 14



### Our next pair of speakers are Rob Talley 15



### and Keith Ware. So i f you both will come up to 16



### the table? 17



### MR. TALLEY: Good morning. My name is 18



### Rob Talley, last name T

- A

- L

- L

- E

- Y, and I appear 19



### to offer comments about the NSPS for greenhouse 20



### gas rules for electric generating units. 21



### My comments are on behalf of Tri

- State 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### G eneration and Transmission Association, a not

1



### for

- profit wholesale electric power supplier 2



### based in Denver, Colorado. 3



### Tri

- State provides power to 44 member 4



### distribution companies serving customers 5



### throughout 250,000 square miles in Colorado, 6



### Nebraska, New Mexico, and Wyoming. We have a 7



### diverse fuel mix and are pursuing new generation. 8



### New EGUs owned and operated by Tri

- State and 9



### Tri

- State's existing EGUs would be negatively 10



### impacted by the proposed rule and the precedence 11



### that it sets. 12



### Tri

- State respect fully requests that EPA 13



### take prompt and decisive action to withdraw the 14



### proposed rule in its entirety. My comments 15



### highlight the key issues that the NSPS, A, lacks 16



### legal basis, B, incorrectly groups together coal 17



### and gas

- fired facilities, and, C, unreason ably 18



### creates a 12

- month period for so

- called 19



### "transitional units" to commence construction. 20



### Legal basis. The proposed legal basis 21



### includes relying on EPA's previous findings that 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EGU emissions endanger public health and welfare, 1



### or a new finding that car bon dioxide emissions 2



### from EGUs cause or contribute to endangerment 3



### from greenhouse gases, which EPA claims can be 4



### satisfied with EPA's 2009 automobile endangerment 5



### finding or a new finding that a large volume of 6



### emissions from EGUs provides a rational bas is for 7



### the NSPS. 8



### Tri

- State's perspective is that none of 9



### the legal theories or any combination thereof 10



### provides EPA with the legal authority to propose 11



### the NSPS. 12



### The proposed NSPS incorrectly groups coal 13



### and gas

- fired units. EPA incorrectly groups 14



### toget her coal

- fired boilers and natural gas

- fired 15



### combined cycle turbines for compliance with the 16



### same NSPS emissions limit. 17



### EPA asserts that natural gas combined 18



### cycle is the best system of emissions reductions 19



### in the context of the NSPS. The propose rule's 20



### emission limits requires 1,000 pound CO 2 

### per 21



### megawatt hour and is unreasonably stringent, not 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### representative of the technical feasibility and 1



### function that ban the development of new coal 2



### power plants. 3



### No existing or new coal

- fired electric 4



### generation uni t can meet the standard proposed by 5



### EPA. The carbon capture and storage technology 6



### that EPA claims can be applied at any coal

- fired 7



### units is many years away from being technically 8



### practical, commercially available, legally 9



### defensible, not to mention the h uge costs. And I 10



### would note that the IBEW comments that preceded 11



### mine are similar along these lines. 12



### Based on experience, Tri

- State is 13



### concerned that developing new EGUs, meeting the 14



### emissions limits, will be problematic or 15



### impossible, and Tri

- State is c oncerned about the 16



### precedent set by the proposed NSPS for a possible 17



### future NSPS that would explicitly apply to 18



### existing EGUs and to simple cycle turbines. 19



### The requirement for transitional units to 20



### commence construction within 12 months should be 21



### eliminat ed. EPA creates a requirement for 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### transitional units to commence construction by 1



### April 13th to remain categorized as such based on 2



### EPA's assertion that it does not have sufficient 3



### information about cost sunk into the development 4



### of these units. The arbit rary requirement to 5



### commence construction within the 12 months of the 6



### proposal is no relation to the ongoing 7



### proceedings, legal proceedings, and should be 8



### eliminated. 9



### In summary, EPA's proposal is without 10



### adequate legal basis, and its requirements are 11



### unr easonably stringent for new and transitional 12



### units. We request that the rule be withdrawn, 13



### and thank you for the opportunity to comment. 14



### And I would say I appreciate that you all have 15



### got a long day ahead of you. Thank you. 16



### [Laughter.] 17



### MR. HARVEY: Th ank you. 18



### Now Keith Ware. 19



### MR. WARE: Yes. Hello. My name is Keith 20



### Ware. That's K

- E

- I

- T

- H, W

- A

- R

- E. I am one of 21



### the principals of GLI, LLC, and we are speaking 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in support of the carbon standards, but what we 1



### are trying to talk about here are new 2



### techno logies. We try actively to break the mold 3



### on what people think of or what people know of as 4



### fuel. 5



### I brought with me today one of the 6



### examples. I will talk about one of them right 7



### here. Let me make sure. 8



### Okay. Many inventions that we have 9



### created in t he United States have sadly

-- I 10



### mean, we have created the CFL. We have created 11



### the solar, thermal, and wind turbine, but, 12



### unfortunately, many of these technologies were 13



### sadly

-- they sadly left the United States, 14



### because nobody in the United States would support 15



### these new technologies, only the oil and

-- oil, 16



### gas, and the conventional things. 17



### So now that we want them back, we have to 18



### pay a premium for that which we already had here 19



### in the United States, and what I am saying is 20



### that Mr. Obama's initiativ es can possibly help 21



### via a stake of the exodus of the IP to other 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### countries. 1



### And one of those technologies, which I am 2



### here to show you today, is what we affectionately 3



### call the "Magic Tree." It's a hybrid tree which 4



### the EPA is already very familiar with , using in 5



### one of their projects, that it's good for 6



### environmental mediation, energy generation, 7



### economic development, and social stability. This 8



### tree is capable of growing in almost any 9



### condition, the minus 20 degrees in Alaska plus 10



### 120 degrees in the Sa hara Desert. It grows and 11



### remediates most soil. It is noninvasive. It is 12



### not genetically modified. If I had a lump of 13



### coal the same density as this, this would have 14



### more energy than that same lump of coal, mainly 15



### because

-- 16



### Here's one of the benefits of this tree. 17



### If I were to take an ordinary oak tree, a full

18



### grown oak tree, would remove about 50 pounds of 19



### carbon out of the air every year. A full

- grown 20



### Magic Tree removes over 1 metric ton of carbon 21



### out of the air per year. So this is mostly 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### carbon. It grows up to 65

- feet high, and the 1



### tree also releases over 6 kilograms of oxygen 2



### into the atmosphere every day. 3



### It has five basic revenue streams. So 4



### this tree is an economic engine wherever it is. 5



### Right now, there is a plantation in South 6



### Carolina. 7



### There are five basic root streams. I'll 8



### just touch on the five. The sales of the root. 9



### The only way this tree can grow is by planting 10



### it: harvesting the root, cutting it up into 3

- 11



### inch pieces, and planting it. So the root sales 12



### -- the lumber from th is tree is incredible, 13



### because the wood is as light as balsa but is as 14



### hard as ebony wood. The fuel from it as biomass 15



### or it can be used in a plasma gasification. The 16



### carbon credits along for people who are looking 17



### at it from a financial standpoint, each tree in 18



### your grove represents a carbon credit, and one 19



### more that doesn't really apply here, one more 20



### revenue stream

-- the lumber, the fuel 21



### generation, the carbon credits, and then the last 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### one that we talk about here is a little bit 1



### crazy, honey. For so me reason, bees love this 2



### tree. For every tree that's in the grove, it 3



### produces over 40 pounds of honey per tree in the 4



### grove. 5



### As I mentioned before, this tree is an 6



### economic stimulus in many ways. If you have a 7



### grove, you have to hire at least two peop le per 8



### acre at a family supporting wage, not a minimum 9



### wage. They'd work with John Deere to generate 10



### new types of equipment to help harvest the root, 11



### so John Deere is waiting for this tree to 12



### proliferate, so that they can make more tractors 13



### and make more money. So this is a genuine 14



### economic stimulus. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Mr. Ware, your time has 16



### expired. 17



### MR. WARE: Okay. That is almost is. 18



### I just had some photos that I was going 19



### to pass on to you. 20



### MR. HARVEY: We'd be happy to see those. 21



### Thank you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. WARE : Sure. EPA is already using 1



### this tree today. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both. 4



### Do we have questions? 5



### A question for Mr. Ware, what is the 6



### Latin name of this tree? 7



### MR. WARE: It was invented by a Dr. Ray 8



### out in California. It's a hybrid cross between 9



### paulownia and a black locust tree, and it's 10



### actually very complicated. 11



### And the part about the IP leaving the 12



### U.S., China has just ordered last week 1 billion 13



### of these trees to stop the growth of the Gobi 14



### Desert. It's the only tree that they coul d find 15



### that could actually grow and stop it. 16



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 17



### MR. WARE: If you cut the tree off, a new 18



### tree will grow up in the middle of the stump. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 20



### We'll be happy to take your

-- do you 21



### want these back or

-- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. WARE: I don't need them. 1



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. 2



### Our next pair of speakers are Kalin 3



### Williams and Christer Watson. Please come to the 4



### table up front. 5



### And just to be prepared, after this pair, 6



### we have Jalonne White

- Newsome and Brenda Afzal. 7



### So you're on deck. 8



### So are we ready? Okay. If you could 9



### introduce yourself and spell your name, please. 10



### MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. Greetings. My name 11



### is Kalin Williams. I am a resident of Ward 7 12



### D.C. and the founder of the Earth's Visible 13



### Energy. 14



### I would like to fi rst start off by saying 15



### I grew up in a community called River Terrace, 16



### which is directly across from the power plant 17



### Pepco, and we're also surrounded by the Anacostia 18



### River. I can recall stories of the elders saying 19



### when Pepco first came, they would come outside to 20



### see white ashes on cars and how now my community 21



### is considered a cancer cluster. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Now, a lot of these things could have 1



### been avoided in the beginning if these type of 2



### proposals that you all have were implemented. 3



### Now that you all have this, I w ould like to thank 4



### you, and I really hope that you push this forward 5



### as the Environmental Protection Agency, because a 6



### lot is on the line, the health of our families, 7



### the health of our elders, the health of the 8



### youth, and eventually

-- I don't know how you r 9



### family is, but I'm sure you might have 10



### grandchildren or great grandchildren. So it's 11



### greater than just the economic side of it. 12



### But right now, it seems like we're at a 13



### point in this journey where we can continue the 14



### path created by the Industrial Revol ution when we 15



### do the same thing over and over again and make 16



### the environmental situation worse, or we can work 17



### together to create a type of economy that 18



### respects the balance of the people, planet, and 19



### profit. We can all win. 20



### So I'd really like to thank y ou all for 21



### this opportunity, and I really pray and hope that 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### we really implement what it means to be a steward 1



### of the earth. It is not a cause where, you know, 2



### it's all about the money that we're going to lose 3



### in the beginning, because the question is can we 4



### afford not to make these changes, can we afford 5



### to see more cancer clusters created, can we 6



### afford to see the ecological community suffer, 7



### and the elders' health just deteriorate with time 8



### in the name of saving some money up front. 9



### In the future, it's going to cost us more 10



### from the health benefit, from the climate 11



### benefit, and there's so many factors that we 12



### can't even put our fingers on. 13



### So I'd just urge you all and really pray 14



### that, you know, we can continue to push this 15



### forward, because we're looki ng forward to the 16



### Environmental Protection Agency to protect us and 17



### all generations from now and behind. 18



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 19



### Christer Watson. 20



### MR. WATSON: Thank you for your time. 21



### I'd like to speak in support of the regulation. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I'm an as sociate professor of physics as 1



### Manchester College, a small liberal arts college 2



### in Northeast Indiana. 3



### And as a physics professor, I like to 4



### think about climate change in as intuitive a way 5



### as possible, and a recent paper in Nature 6



### quantified climate chan ge not in terms of degrees 7



### changes anticipated per year or per century but 8



### in velocity. That is kilometers per year at 9



### which various ecosystems and climate changes move 10



### north in the northern hemisphere, and in the 11



### Midwest, the average velocity of climate change 12



### is about a kilometer per second where I live. So 13



### you can imagine areas further south, the habits, 14



### the climate slowly approaching where I live. 15



### And I think no other way of thinking 16



### about climate change I find as scary as that 17



### ever

- present movement of the climate north, not 18



### because of what will happen, of course, in a few 19



### years or even 10 or 20 years but several 20



### generations later, as the continual movement 21



### north of climate occurs. Well, I fear as to what 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### climate will be leaving and what habitats wil l be 1



### leaving for future generations. 2



### Now, I realize, of course, that this 3



### regulation is not based entirely on how scary 4



### climate change is or how true climate change is, 5



### but I do believe that the wholesale change of 6



### ecosystems certainly warrants new regula tions, 7



### and I would encourage the EPA to implement these 8



### new regulations. 9



### Thanks for your time and for your whole 10



### day of listening to public comment. 11



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 12



### Other questions? 13



### [No response.] 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both. 15



### Our next pair of speakers, Jalonne White

16



### Newsome and Brenda Afzal. 17



### [Technical interruption.] 18



### MR. HARVEY: We will start with Ms. 19



### White

- Newsome. If you could start by spelling 20



### your name for the reporter. 21



### DR. WHITE

- NEWSOME: Sure. J

- A

- L

- O

- N

- N

- E, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and the last name is Wh ite

- Newsome. 1



### MR. HARVEY: Oh, sorry. 2



### MR. HARVEY: W

- H

- I

- T

- E, hyphen, N

- E

- W

- S

3



### O

- M

- E. 4



### Good morning. My name is Dr. Jalonne 5



### White

- Newsome, and I am a postdoctoral fellow on 6



### climate change, working on climate change and 7



### public health at the Union of Concer ned 8



### Scientists, which is as science

- based non

- profit, 9



### working for a healthy environment in a safe 10



### world. Thank you for the opportunity to testify 11



### today. 12



### EPA's proposed rule for carbon pollution 13



### standards for new power plants will reduce one of 14



### the larges t sources of carbon pollution that can 15



### contribute to climate change. By installing 16



### technologies that can reduce harmful missions, 17



### the threat on human health, especially for 18



### children and the elderly and those with heart and 19



### respiratory problems, can be min imized. 20



### Air pollutants such as carbon monoxide, 21



### sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxides, VOCs, and ozone 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### have both acute and chronic effects on human 1



### health. These effects can range from minor upper 2



### respiratory irritation, lung cancer, and other 3



### respiratory infec tions in children and adults. 4



### Our warming climate mixed in with carbon, 5



### pollution, and other contaminants will increase 6



### ambient temperatures that can lead to more 7



### extreme weather conditions like heat waves. Heat 8



### waves are already the most deadly weather

- related 9



### exposure in the U.S. and account for more deaths 10



### annually than hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and 11



### earthquakes combined. So, consequently, whether 12



### you consider the pollution by itself or the lack 13



### of preparedness and planning that our communities 14



### ar e facing to handle the potentially exacerbated 15



### health impacts that are a result of carbon 16



### pollution, it's no matter time than now to do 17



### something about it and improve the quality of 18



### life for those that are already suffering with 19



### asthma and other chronic di seases. 20



### As an environmental health professional 21



### and a person who has had the opportunity to study 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### for the past 4 years the effects of climate 1



### change specifically on the elderly, I appreciate 2



### and recognize the need to limit carbon pollution 3



### to protect some of our most precious populations, 4



### our elderly and our children. As a chemical and 5



### environmental engineer who worked in production 6



### and manufacturing for several years in an 7



### environmental management capacity, I respect the 8



### need to produce power and electri city so we can 9



### enjoy the simple pleasures in life. 10



### I also understand the cost to both labor 11



### and time that are necessary to make facilities 12



### more streamlined. So I know firsthand it is 13



### possible to create a better system to reduce 14



### pollution like carbon and protect our health, and 15



### I am a firm believer that you can make money, be 16



### productive, and still comply with environmental 17



### standards. 18



### As a granddaughter, I have watched my 19



### grandparents, now in their 80s and 90s, and have 20



### lived in Detroit, Michigan, my homet own, for over 21



### 60 years struggle with multiple chronic diseases 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and most recently deal with two extremely hot 1



### weather, hot summers where they literally 2



### struggled to breathe in their own home. 3



### We know that climate change will make our 4



### summers hotter and inc rease intensity of heat 5



### waves. The EPA's proposed carbon pollution 6



### standard for new power plants and future 7



### standards that will limit carbon pollution from 8



### existing sources will help protect Americans, 9



### like my grandparents, from the impacts of climate 10



### cha nge. 11



### As a daughter, I have watched my mother 12



### manage day care centers and workplace development 13



### facilities in the City of Detroit as well for the 14



### past 30 years. The areas of the city where most 15



### of her clients come from are areas like Zug 16



### Island, Delray, a nd Conner, which are all near 17



### power facilities and are already areas that are 18



### disproportionately impacted by pollution and 19



### industry, and many of the people are already 20



### suffering from health conditions like asthma just 21



### because of where they live. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### But what struck me the most is that over 1



### the past 10 years, my mom has noticed that the 2



### number of kids and adults that need breathing 3



### treatments has increased, really more than 4



### doubled over time. Unfortunately, we know that 5



### the number of people who will suffer fro m 6



### respiratory illnesses like asthma could get worse 7



### if we don't take steps to reduce carbon 8



### pollution. 9



### Higher temperatures from climate change 10



### could, of course, increase ground

- level ozone, 11



### the primary component of smog and one of the main 12



### pollutants that contribute to illnesses like 13



### asthma. 14



### And most importantly, as a mother of two 15



### young girls ages 3 and 5, I can only imagine the 16



### stress, the fear, and the helplessness that comes 17



### with trying to protect young children their 18



### environment, the environment wher e they are 19



### supposed to live and play without fear that their 20



### health or the quality of life or their quality of 21



### life will suffer due to something they have no 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### control over, which is air pollution. 1



### In conclusion, I support the EPA's 2



### efforts to protect our f amilies and our 3



### communities from the impacts of climate change by 4



### placing limits on carbon pollution from new power 5



### plants and to move forward with standards that 6



### will reduce carbon pollution on existing sources. 7



### These standards for new power plants and f uture 8



### standards for existing sources will help avoid 9



### some of the worst consequences that come from our 10



### changing climate, especially the impact on the 11



### health of our elderly and our children. 12



### Thank you again for the opportunity to be 13



### here. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Tha nk you, Ms. White

15



### Newsome. 16



### Brenda Afzal. If you could also spell 17



### your name? 18



### MS. AFZAL: B

- R

- E

- N

- D

- A, A

- F

- Z

- A

- L, 19



### Brenda Afzal. 20



### Good afternoon

-- good morning. My name 21



### is Brand Afzal, and I am a community public 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### health nurse. I am on the Executive Boar d of the 1



### Alliance of Nurses for Healthy Environments, and 2



### I am here today representing the views of the 3



### nurse educators, researchers, practitioners, and 4



### advocates who are members of our alliance. They 5



### are greatly concerned about this issue and asked 6



### me to be here. 7



### ANHE supports the Environmental 8



### Protection Agency's efforts to protect our health 9



### and reduce carbon emissions under this proposed 10



### carbon pollution standard for new power plants. 11



### Power plant is the largest individual 12



### source of carbon pollution i n the United States. 13



### As you know, we are here today because there is 14



### no uniform national limits on the amount of 15



### carbon pollution that future power plants will be 16



### able to emit. 17



### Carbon pollution, as we all in the room 18



### know, stay in the atmosphere and cont ribute to 19



### climate change, which is a significant threat to 20



### public health and the environment for current and 21



### future generations. The health risks and climate 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### change are especially serious for children, the 1



### elderly, and for those with preexisting 2



### condition s, like my husband with cardiovascular 3



### disease who cannot go out Code Red days and my 4



### son with asthma and my brand

- new little baby 5



### granddaughter. So we're now talking about three 6



### generations in my family who had issues on Code 7



### Red days and Code Orange day s as well. 8



### Unchecked greenhouse pollution threatens 9



### Americans' health and welfare by leading to long

10



### lasting changes in our climate with impacts that 11



### include increased ground

- level ozone pollution, 12



### longer, more intense, and frequent heat waves, 13



### more inten se precipitation events and storm 14



### surges, and exactly the opposite, less 15



### precipitation and more prolonged drought in the 16



### West, in the Southwest. 17



### The nation's medical and public health 18



### professional organizations, the American Nurses 19



### Association, the Americ an Medical Association, 20



### the American Pediatric Association, the American 21



### Public Health Association, all have come with the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### alarm about the health implications to climate 1



### change. Each organization has issued statements 2



### and resolutions that could support th e adoption 3



### of national policies that will reduce emissions 4



### of greenhouse gases. 5



### If you know anything about any one of 6



### these organizations, policies do not come easy 7



### for them. They work very hard. There must be 8



### significant and sound science supporting an y 9



### policies or statements that they make. For 10



### virtually all of our nation's health associations 11



### to have taken this stance, you have to ask why. 12



### It's because nurses, physicians, and 13



### public health professionals understand the 14



### science that is telling us that unchecked 15



### greenhouse gas pollution threaten

-- pollution 16



### threatens the health and welfare of our patients 17



### and the communities we serve, and because we are 18



### already seeing the results of this unchecked 19



### pollution in our office and areas of practice

-- 20



### everyb ody in this room knows a nurse, has a nurse 21



### in their family. If I asked you to raise your 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### hands, I'm pretty sure that almost everyone's 1



### hand would go up. One in every 100 Americans is 2



### a nurse. 3



### Ask any school nurse about his or her

-- 4



### the children in his or her care about asthma, 5



### then how many have asthma. 6



### When I was originally in nursing years 7



### ago, I very rarely saw a child with one of these. 8



### This is my personal one, by the way. I have 9



### adult onset asthma. Now if you go to a school 10



### nurse, you will hav e her pull her drawer open, 11



### and you will see a drawer

- full of these for the 12



### various children that are in his or her care. 13



### Ask a nurse what happens to those 14



### children on days when the air quality days are 15



### poor due to elevated ozone level. It is a 16



### disaster. Those children can't go out and play. 17



### It is a real mess. 18



### An estimated 7 million children and over 19



### 17 million adults in the United States have 20



### asthma. Asthma episodes keeps kids out of 21



### school, and they keep parents out of work, and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### parents out of work because they have asthma and 1



### because they are home caring for their children. 2



### According to the CDC, the annual cost of asthma 3



### in the United States is around $56 billion. 4



### Ask the pediatric nurse practitioner or 5



### an allergist about the increase in allergic 6



### conditions that they are treating. Carbon 7



### pollution can worsen asthma by driving climate 8



### change, rising temperatures, increased ozone and 9



### smog, and by increasing the production of 10



### airborne allergens like ragweed and pollen. The 11



### cost of this has been esti mated at $21 billion a 12



### year. 13



### Ask an emergency room nurse or a local 14



### public health department what happens in heat 15



### waves in their communities. In the summer of 16



### 2011, over 140 million people in a 1

- million

17



### square

- mile area of this country were under heat 18



### a dvisories and warning. There were dozens of 19



### deaths during that time attributed to the heat. 20



### Ask emergency responders: Are they 21



### prepared to deal with extreme weather events? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### As a Katrina first responder, I can tell 1



### you we are not prepared. We may never be 2



### prepared to respond to this to extreme

-- 3



### MR. HARVEY: Your time has expired. 4



### MS. AFZAL: May I say my last statement? 5



### MR. HARVEY: Very quickly. 6



### MS. AFZAL: We support

-- the Alliance of 7



### Nurses for Healthy Environment support the 8



### Environmental Pro tection Agency's mission to 9



### protect public health, the environment, and we 10



### expect the EPA to move quickly to finalize these 11



### and implement some limits. 12



### In addition, nurses across the country 13



### are watching our policy

- makers, those who are in 14



### support of this and those who aren't, and we're 15



### paying attention. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much for your 18



### statement. 19



### All right. Our next pair of speakers are 20



### Katie Huffling and Andre Sauvageot. 21



### MR. SAUVAGEOT: Andrew Sauvageot. I'm 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### here. 1



### MR. HARVEY: O kay. Would you come up to 2



### the table, please? 3



### For those of you who weren't here at the 4



### beginning, what we're doing is we're asking pairs 5



### of speakers to come up to the table. Please have 6



### a seat. I'm going to ask Ms. Huffling to go 7



### first. She will speak, and when she is done, 8



### then I will turn to Mr. Sauvageot and he will 9



### speak. Then if we have questions, we will ask 10



### those, and then we will ask you to both be seated 11



### again. So just stay there until we call you. 12



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: When you see the 13



### yell ow light, that means there is 1 minute left. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Right. Just to explain the 15



### light again, you have 5 minutes: 4 minutes 16



### green, 1 minute yellow, red means stop. And when 17



### it gets to red, I'm going to stop you, because 18



### it's not appropriate for oth er people in the room 19



### for you to go longer than your 5 minutes. So 20



### just be prepared for that. 21



### If you both also before you start, if you 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### would spell your name for the court reporter, 1



### that will help her capture your name accurately. 2



### So let's start with Ms . Huffling. 3



### MS. HUFFLING: Okay. So Katie Huffling, 4



### K

- A

- T

- I

- E, H

- U

- F

- F

- L

- I

- N

- G. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 6



### MS. HUFFLING: So good morning. Thank 7



### you for the opportunity to comment on this 8



### important issue. My name is Katie Huffling, and 9



### I'm here today re presenting the American College 10



### for Nurse

- Midwives. 11



### We would like to express our strong 12



### support for the standards to limit carbon 13



### emissions from new power plants. 14



### As a nurse

- midwife, my goal is to help 15



### women and families have the healthiest 16



### pregnancies a nd the healthiest babies possible. 17



### Unfortunately, air pollution and rising global 18



### temperatures are increasingly being shown to have 19



### significant impacts on the health of pregnant 20



### women and infants, two of our most vulnerable 21



### populations. As temperatures r ise, we are likely 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to see more frequent and severe heat waves, 1



### heavier rainstorms and flooding, and increased 2



### pollution, all of which present health challenges 3



### for vulnerable populations. 4



### In the Baltimore and Washington, D.C., 5



### regions, we have some of the most polluted air in 6



### the country and some of the highest number of 7



### poor air quality days in which the smog levels 8



### are so high that even healthy adults may have 9



### difficulty breathing when they are outside. 10



### I have seen firsthand how poor air 11



### quality days ca n have a significant effect on the 12



### health of pregnant women. Many times, my 13



### asthmatic patients would come into my office 14



### wheezing or reporting an increased use of their 15



### inhalers on poor air quality days, especially 16



### during the summer when you are more like ly to 17



### have higher levels of air pollution. Having good 18



### control of asthma is an essential part of a 19



### healthy pregnancy, as the mother's breasts are 20



### that baby's only sources of oxygen. 21



### We caution pregnant women to stay inside 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### on poor air quality days, as ex posure to air 1



### pollution has been linked to poor pregnancy 2



### outcomes, such as low birth weight and 3



### exacerbation of asthma and lung irritation. 4



### However, most women can't put their live son hold 5



### when there is a poor air quality day. For many 6



### women, they have to go to work, school, their 7



### prenatal appointments, and especially in urban 8



### areas, many of them rely on public transportation 9



### where they may have to walk to their train of 10



### stand on busy roads waiting for their buses, 11



### breathing in an unacceptably high leve l of air 12



### pollution. 13



### Air pollution and increased temperatures 14



### have also been associated with preterm birth. In 15



### a study of over 60,000 births in California, 16



### increased temperatures were found to be 17



### significantly associated with preterm birth, 18



### regardless of maternal age, education, maternal 19



### and ethnic/racial groups, or the sex of the 20



### infant. 21



### Preterm birth can have a significant 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### health impact for these infants. These children 1



### face respiratory, neurological, and digestive 2



### problems soon after birth and may fac e 3



### developmental and learning issues throughout 4



### their childhood. These can cause a significant 5



### amount of suffering for both these children and 6



### their families. For children born prematurely, 7



### the health care costs over their first year of 8



### life is over 10 ti mes the costs of an infant born 9



### at term. 10



### Besides issues of prematurity and low 11



### birth weight, we are also seeing long

- term 12



### changes in the lungs of children whose mothers 13



### were exposed to higher levels of air pollution 14



### when pregnant. These changes could lea d to an 15



### increased risk of asthma and decreased lung 16



### function. 17



### Children born to asthmatic mothers who 18



### are exposed to increased levels of air pollution 19



### during their pregnancy have an increased risk of 20



### wheezing and difficulty breathing at ozone levels 21



### at or near the current standards. Besides the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### burden of treatment this places on our health 1



### care system, we also must take into account the 2



### financial burden placed on parents of asthmatic 3



### children through days lost of work and school as 4



### well as the emotional to ll that this places on a 5



### family when they are managing a chronic disease 6



### in a child. 7



### The EPA is mandated to protect the health 8



### of Americans. I ask the EPA to move quickly to 9



### finalize and implement limits on carbon emissions 10



### from new power plants, and the n please take the 11



### next critical step and issue standards to reduce 12



### carbon emissions from existing power plants and 13



### other major sources of emissions. Clean air is 14



### vital to healthy women neighborhood healthy 15



### babies, and isn't that what all of us should be 16



### w orking for? 17



### Thank you. 18



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 19



### Mr. Sauvageot, please start by spelling 20



### your name. 21



### MR. SAUVAGEOT: Yes. My name is Andre 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Sauvageot, and it's spelled A as in Alpha

- N, 1



### November

- D, Delta

- R, Romeo

- E, Echo. S, Sierra

- A

2



### U, Uniform

- V, Victor

- A

- G, Golf

- E, Echo

- O, Oscar

3



### T, Tango. 4



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 5



### MR. SAUVAGEOT: All right. I am a 6



### retired Army colonel, but I'm doing business now 7



### for two companies in Vietnam, but one of them is 8



### very relevant to the hearing today, because it is 9



### I am a partner of the Interstate Travel Company, 10



### which has designed a magnet levitation, solar

11



### powered, hydrogen

- fueled fast transport for 12



### interstate travel. 13



### Unfortunately, we don't have a phototype 14



### physically up and running yet, but I'm hoping we 15



### will f ind the funding before long. 16



### I'm here because I do support the 17



### President's goals for

-- and EPA's goals for 18



### limiting these carbon emissions from new power 19



### plants, but I hope someday that they'll set 20



### limits for existing power plants just as well. 21



### But mayb e we need a second term for President 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Obama before we get to that. 1



### Anyway, there is no scientifically 2



### rational reason or morally acceptable reason to 3



### not accept the scientific consensus on three 4



### counts. 5



### One, global warming is a grave danger. 6



### Human activ ity does contribute to it, and the 7



### measures to reduce the kinds of pollution caused 8



### by human activity can reduce the effect, and they 9



### all well know. 10



### Now, there's the near

- to

- medium

- term 11



### dangers of global warming. I was going to start 12



### with human health, b ut I'm going to skip it, 13



### because you've covered that better. But the 14



### Union of Concerned Scientists, of which I'm a 15



### member, has supported everything you said and in 16



### great detail. 17



### Then there's the effects on the economy. 18



### Senator Sanders had a hearing on 1 March that 19



### was really great, had people from the reinsurance 20



### industry that made it very clear that if we don't 21



### limit these emissions someday, the properties 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### that there are insurance companies that they 1



### reinsure won't be able

-- they won't be able to 2



### cover it from private insurers, and so it will 3



### all be dumped. All the damage from severe storms 4



### will be dumped on the taxpayer and the individual 5



### victim. That's not acceptable. 6



### Then there's, from my standpoint of over 7



### 30 years of government service

-- there' s the 8



### national security aspects. The President's State 9



### of the Union Address made it very clear that the 10



### Department of Defense has committed to historic 11



### effort for renewable energy, clean energy. 12



### Well, the U.S. Navy has to be realistic. 13



### They cannot ignor e the realities of the melting 14



### ice caps, the expansion of blue water that they 15



### have to patrol, and also the fact that a lot of 16



### those blue waters that they have to cover now is 17



### rich in mineral resources, thumping an 18



### international race to plant other countri es' 19



### flags in other countries' extended economic 20



### zones. 21



### So they have to cover that, and the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Secretary of the Navy has been very clear on this 1



### in many forms, and he said that primarily they're 2



### interested in energy security, even more than 3



### saving money, but they can save money too. He 4



### cited a specific example of a ship with a hybrid 5



### drive, one ship that saved $2 million on its 6



### initial voyage. Over the life of the ship, that 7



### would be a quarter of a million dollars at 8



### today's oil prices. So you can't ignore realism 9



### there. 10



### And on 8 February 2012, the Department of 11



### Defense held a Clean Defense Summit right here in 12



### Washington, and my company, the Interstate 13



### Traveler Company, was proud to be one of the 14



### sponsors along with Lockheed Martin and other 15



### companies. 16



### No w, the long

- term threat, though, let's 17



### face it, is existential. Why? Because poor 18



### stewardship of the environment has already cost 19



### the human race dearly, and its protraction with 20



### concomitant

-- with the sea levels continuing to 21



### rise will flood coastal cit ies, and not only like 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in our west and east but also in countries that 1



### I'm familiar with, like Jakarta in Indonesia and 2



### Hanoi where I work a lot, and they're under 3



### water. That's why these countries care about 4



### this. 5



### So we believe that, you know, our produ ct 6



### can help with this. Our founder and managing 7



### partner, Justin Sutton, has designed a high

- speed 8



### magnetic levitation, and we dub it "high rail." 9



### High rail, which would be solar

- powered, 10



### hydrogen

- fueled, and able to transport 11



### passengers, interstate. 12



### But , unfortunately, I mean, we don't have 13



### the funding, as I said, to build a physical 14



### prototype yet, but I hope we can do it soon in 15



### Michigan. And we'll find it maybe in Virginia, 16



### and then once we get a funding for the prototype, 17



### State governments can get in terested in this and 18



### report to the Federal Government, Department of 19



### Transportation, Ray LaHood and his Under 20



### Secretary, Polly Trottenberg, for policy, and 21



### they're going to be gung ho about this, I 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### believe. And we can afford

-- we can forge 1



### public

- private partnerships to finance a cross

2



### country system, and then foreign countries, one 3



### which I represent in Vietnam, can bring people 4



### over. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Mr. Sauvageot, your time has 6



### expired. 7



### MR. SAUVAGEOT: Anyway, that's basically 8



### it, but I'd like to see it s tart up in Virginia. 9



### MR. HARVEY: Great. Thank you very much, 10



### both of you. 11



### All right. We'll go on to our next set 12



### of speakers: Jackie Ward and Kristin Cook. 13



### Can you introduce yourself? 14



### MS. WARD: I'm Jackie Ward. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Jackie Ward. 16



### So do we have Kristin Cook? 17



### MS. COOK: Yes. 18



### MR. HARVEY: Please have a seat. 19



### So, again, if you're new to the room, 20



### we're doing these in pairs. We ask that you stay 21



### here while the other person speaks, and then 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### we'll let you both go back. 1



### So we'll start off wit h Jackie Ward, and 2



### you have 5 minutes. When you're ready, we'll get 3



### started. 4



### MS. WARD: Good morning. I too am in 5



### support of the EPA's proposed regulations 6



### regarding carbon emissions, but what I would like 7



### to talk about is my community. 8



### I live not too far from here in Ward 8, 9



### and I would like to speak about the effect of 10



### pollution on our community. 11



### We do not have what one would call an 12



### industrial base, but yet still

-- and the only 13



### claim so far is we have Joint Air Force Base at 14



### Bolling and soon Homela nd Security, but, more 15



### importantly, right across the river in 16



### Alexandria, we have a power plant that is causing 17



### us a lot of misery. 18



### To the effect today that most of our 19



### children are born with respiratory diseases in 20



### our ward, our children suffer terribly. That's 21



### something that will

-- that's generational in our 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### ward. 1



### Today, we are also seeing adults like 2



### myself, who are just getting to be on the onset 3



### of crossing over into elderly or upper middle age 4



### or high middle age or whatever you may call it, 5



### are no w dealing with respiratory diseases 6



### themselves, people who have previously not had a 7



### problem with asthma as a child. This is 8



### unconscionable, and we not only demand, I demand 9



### for myself and my community the right to live in 10



### a life which with no pollution, clean energy. 11



### And that's all I have to say. 12



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 13



### MS. COOK: Hi. Good morning. My name is 14



### Kristin Cook, and I am a resident of Maryland and 15



### mother of three and part

- time environmental 16



### activist. Thank you for allowing me to speak 17



### today. 18



### I've been concerned about emissions, 19



### carbon emissions and how it relates to climate 20



### warming

-- or "disruption" is the term nowadays

- 21



### - for years now, but never in my worst nightmares 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### did I think that the extreme weather changes that 1



### scientis ts would predict would be happening so 2



### soon. I would have never imagined that it was at 3



### my front door here, now unfolding in front of my 4



### 10

- year

- old's eyes, much to our horror. 5



### Since 2006, weather

- related disasters 6



### have been declared in every U.S. State except for 7



### South Carolina. During this period, weather

8



### related disasters affected every county in 18 9



### States, including my Maryland. 10



### In the last 3 years, I've witnessed first 11



### the North American Blizzard of 2009, Category 2, 12



### produced a record 24

- hour snowf all in Washington, 13



### D.C., and nearly 2 feet of accumulated snow. 14



### That storm broke the record for the amount of 15



### snow in a single December event. 16



### The next year, a series of storms in 17



### 2010, which annihilated our area, starting on 18



### February 5th, the first of t hree severe storms, 19



### aptly named "Snowmageddon," Category 6, brought 20



### historical snowfall totals in every single one of 21



### the Mid

- Atlantic States and brought deaths in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Mexico, New Mexico, Virginia, and Maryland. 1



### Only 3 days later, we got hit with 2



### another bliz zard, which brought 10 to 12 inches 3



### of snow across a wide swath of Washington to New 4



### York City, and because this storm affected some 5



### of the same areas that received the historic 6



### snowfalls from Snowmageddon, it only exacerbated 7



### the clean

- up process, for the city is still being 8



### paralyzed by the last one. 9



### Then later that month, February 25th to 10



### 27th, a third severe storm of the month, also 11



### known as "Snowicane" to some, was a winter storm 12



### and severe weather event that occurred in the 13



### Mid

- Atlantic and New Engla nd States. The storm 14



### brought flooding rains to coastal sections of New 15



### England and some areas, expansing as much as 4 16



### inches. Aside from precipitation, it also 17



### brought hurricane

- force winds. 18



### Come 2011 and we have the fourth warmest 19



### winter on record with the U.S., with virtually no 20



### snow, which was the third least snowy winter on 21



### record for the contiguous U.S., and a spring 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### which began seeing flowers bloom in late January 1



### and early February. 2



### And all of this pales in comparison to 3



### the extreme destructive w eather that some other 4



### parts of the country have experienced in recent 5



### years. 6



### But in the fall, if that wasn't enough to 7



### set new standards for carbon pollution, there's a 8



### dozen other indisputable ways that carbon 9



### pollution affects our everyday lives, such as 10



### asthma and respiratory illnesses, indisputable. 11



### But on this high note, I'm proud to note 12



### that the State of Maryland is working towards 13



### building clean energy sources. 14



### In closing, we need our planet a lot more 15



### than it needs us. So let's take care of it

. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both for taking 18



### the time to come testify for us. 19



### Our next pair of speakers, again, please 20



### both come up and sit at the table. Tyler Pidgeon 21



### and Herschel Pecker. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Mr. Pidgeon, you will go first, and if 1



### you could start by spelling your name, and then 2



### we'll begin the clock. 3



### MR. PIDGEON: Okay. So my name is Tyler 4



### Pidgeon. It's T

- Y

- L

- E

- R, P

- I

- D

- G

- E

- O

- N. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. You can begin. 6



### MR. PIDGEON: Good morning. My name is 7



### Tyler Pidgeon, and I'm from Enfield, New 8



### Hampshire. 9



### I'm currently a student at St. Lawrence 10



### University in Update New York studying 11



### environmental studies and biology. 12



### Growing up in a rural town allowed me to 13



### truly appreciate the beauty of the Northeast and 14



### the rolling mountains to the forests to the 15



### peaceful streams and rivers and all the wildlife 16



### for them. Going to school in the north country 17



### has also closely connected me to the Adirondack 18



### region, which is still recovering from acid 19



### deposition caused by coal

- fired power plant 20



### emissions in the M idwest. 21



### I strongly support the EPA's proposed 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### standards for carbon pollution for new power 1



### plants in order to protect these areas which I 2



### have come to call home. I want our elected 3



### officials to protect and preserve our 4



### environment, so that we as well as future 5



### generations can enjoy the benefits and 6



### recreational opportunities a healthy ecosystem 7



### provides. 8



### Just one example, the native yet rare 9



### Pink Lady Slipper, New Hampshire's official State 10



### wildflower, is already threatened by habitat 11



### loss, and I would h ate to see the impacts of 12



### global warming further reduce the numbers of this 13



### beautiful and symbolic member of the orchid 14



### family. 15



### In addition to protecting both the flora 16



### and fauna through the proposed carbon pollution 17



### standard, I want my own health and the health of 18



### others to be protected. 19



### My brother and I both suffer from asthma. 20



### So reducing air pollution is not merely driven 21



### by our morals but by our own health and safety. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Last summer, I visited Nairobi, Kenya, 1



### and experienced extremely poor air quality from 2



### lapsed air pollution standards. My first and 3



### only attempt to go for a run ended very abruptly, 4



### because my airways constricted making it 5



### extremely difficult to inhale even a single 6



### breath after the use of my inhaler. 7



### My uncontrollable struggle to br eathe 8



### felt as though my airways had become a coffee 9



### stirrer, requiring me to make multiple breaks 10



### just merely walking back to our compound. Such 11



### discomfort and difficulty to perform one of our 12



### most vital and voluntary functions from 13



### preventable exposure t o air pollutants should 14



### never be experienced by anyone, especially within 15



### our own borders. 16



### I strongly urge the agency to quickly 17



### finalize these standards and to develop 18



### additional standards for existing power plants to 19



### safe guard the health of the public and the 20



### natural world. 21



### Thank you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 1



### Mr. Pecker. 2



### MR. PECKER: My name is Herschel Pecker, 3



### H

- E

- R

- S

- C

- H

- E

- L. Last name Pecker, P

- E

- C

- K

- E

- R. 4



### Good morning, my name is Herschel Pecker. 5



### I work for the National Wildlife Federation, and 6



### I'm here on behalf of our 47,000 supporters who 7



### submitted comments online to the EPA in support 8



### of limits to carbon pollution from coal

- fired 9



### power plants. 10



### The National Wildlife Federation and our 11



### supporters who submitted comments to the EPA are 12



### in suppo rt of limits to carbon pollution from 13



### power plants, because climate change is the 14



### number

- one threat to wildlife today. 15



### In the lifetime of a child born today, 20 16



### to 30 percent of the plant and animal species 17



### will be on the brink of extinction because of 18



### gl obal warming. Polar bears are particularly 19



### vulnerable species for which the impacts on 20



### global warming are quite evident and alarming to 21



### the National Wildlife Federation supporters. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### As climate change melts the sea ice, the 1



### U.S. Geological Survey projects that two

- thirds 2



### of polar bears will disappear by the year 2050. 3



### This dramatic decline in polar bear population is 4



### occurring in our lifetime, which is a minuscule 5



### faction of the time polar bears have roamed the 6



### vast Arctic seas. 7



### Last year in 2011, the sea ice melted 8



### especially rapidly. Arctic Sea ice extent for 9



### January 2011 was the lowest in satellite record 10



### for that month. A female polar bear reported 11



### swam for 9 days nonstop across the Beaufort Sea 12



### before reaching an ice flow, costing her 22 13



### percent of her weight and her cub. These 14



### struggles are only worsening for Arctic wildlife 15



### whose habitats are quickly altering. 16



### In southern portions of their range, like 17



### Hudson Bay, Canada, there is no sea ice during 18



### the summer, and the polar bears must live on land 19



### until the bay freezes in the fall, whereupon they 20



### can again hunt on ice. While on land during the 21



### summer, these bears eat little or nothing. In 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the past 20 years, the ice

- free period in Hudson 1



### Bay has increased by an average of 20 days, 2



### cutting seal hun ting season short by nearly 3 3



### weeks. 4



### Exacerbating the problem of the loss of 5



### hunting areas, the shrinking polar ice cap will 6



### also likely cause a decline in polar bear's prey, 7



### their seals. 8



### Wildlife are struggling beyond the Arctic 9



### as well. The changing c limate and associated 10



### extreme weather events are altering wildlife 11



### habitat and harming species across the country, 12



### including western pica, waterfowl, coldwater 13



### fish, salmon, lizards, moose, and songbirds. The 14



### list goes on and on. 15



### National Wildlife Federa tion supporters 16



### from States across the country are in D.C. and 17



### Chicago to testify today, and they're sharing 18



### their firsthand accounts of the changes in 19



### waterfowl migration, the decline in fish 20



### populations that depend on cold streams, and the 21



### changes to the forests and waters where you can 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### go to find wildlife, reconnect with nature, and 1



### pass on the love of wildlife and the outdoors to 2



### the next generation. 3



### National Wildlife Federation supporters 4



### strongly support limits on carbon pollution 5



### causing global warm ing, because we want wildlife 6



### to survive for the next generation. Along with 7



### our supporters, I strongly urge the Environmental 8



### Protection Agency's proposed first

- ever national 9



### carbon pollution limits for new power plant 10



### smokestacks and ask that the EPA co ntinue to work 11



### on limits to existing power plants and other 12



### sources of pollution that cause global warming. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both. 15



### All right. Our next pair of speakers, 16



### Mitchel Stout and Michael Greenberg. 17



### MR. STOUT: Good morning. 18



### M R. HARVEY: Good morning. Are you Mr. 19



### Stout? 20



### MR. STOUT: Yes. 21



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. If you could start 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### just by spelling your name briefly, and then 1



### we'll begin. 2



### MR. STOUT: Okay. My name is Mitchel 3



### Stout. 4



### Ready? 5



### My reason for supporting the EPA's 6



### prop osed carbon standards stems from a concern 7



### for my son Austin, who is 12, and the global 8



### environment that we are going to leave him as 9



### adults. 10



### My whole family is vegan. Now, you 11



### wonder why am I saying this. Well, we committed 12



### to that, for one reason in particular, because we 13



### feel that many of the carbon emissions that come 14



### from methane, for example, and the CO 2 

### that comes 15



### out of the transportation of animals is a cause 16



### of global warming, and I'm very proud those who 17



### lower chicken, extra cheese in hamburg ers, et 18



### cetera. 19



### What I'm saying is that

-- the reason I 20



### am bringing this up is the children can only do 21



### so much. I'm very proud of many of the kids I've 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### seen who have created environmental groups at 1



### their schools, who have built solar panels for 2



### their tr ailers at their schools and have put 3



### aside their video games to go attend evening 4



### meetings at the Sierra Club where we have 5



### activist nights. There is only so much that they 6



### can do. 7



### So that's why I am here, to help all of 8



### us face the big challenges, the g rownup 9



### challenges that are one

-- this is one way

-- for 10



### example, the reduced standards for carbon 11



### emissions, and I think it's important to make the 12



### painful choices like these. 13



### That's why I'm here to urge the EPA to 14



### implement the new carbon standards for the sake 15



### of my son's health and future and that of other 16



### young Americans who have to live in the world 17



### that we are leaving them. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 20



### Our next speaker is Michael Greenberg. 21



### MR. GREENBERG: Hello. Thank you for 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### having me. My name is Michael Greenberg. I am a 1



### senior at the Charles E. Smith Jewish Day School 2



### and a rising freshman at Washington University in 3



### St. Louis, and I am also the founder of Tar Sands 4



### Students, which is a coalition of 25 high school 5



### environmental commu nities which works to protect 6



### the climate by lobbying against the Keystone XL 7



### Pipeline, but I'm here representing just myself. 8



### So I came to this hearing because the 9



### human experience is threatened. If climate 10



### change goes unchecked, an overwhelming majorit y 11



### of the world's population will life reduced to a 12



### painful journey of suffering, oppression, 13



### poverty, disease, and hopelessness. 14



### Take for example the segment of the 15



### world's population that relies on glacial water 16



### for farming. As glaciers continue to disa ppear, 17



### more people are finding that they do not have 18



### enough water to sustain themselves, or consider 19



### the hundreds of millions of people who live in 20



### coastal areas that are only a few inches of feed 21



### above sea level. These people too will be forced 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to flee t heir homes if the climate does not get 1



### stabilized. 2



### These are just two examples out of many 3



### of ways in which human prosperity will diminish 4



### as climate change increases. What is most 5



### unfair, of course, is that the country suffering 6



### the most from climate ch ange are the ones that 7



### have done almost nothing to cause it. The United 8



### States should see how unjust the situation is and 9



### make significant carbon dioxide emissions 10



### reductions in order to remedy the situation. 11



### The most disturbing thing

-- and that's 12



### one o f the main reasons for why I'm here

-- is 13



### that I believe that the climate will soon reach a 14



### tipping point. Specifically, there is this thing 15



### called "climate feedback loops," which are 16



### essentially ways that climate change perpetuates 17



### itself after humans ha ve had an impact. 18



### So, for example, with permafrost, climate 19



### change causes permafrost to melt, which causes a 20



### release in greenhouse gases, specifically 21



### methane, which causes further climate change, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### further melting of permafrost, further release of 1



### greenhou se gases, et cetera, or another example 2



### is that as the climate warms, there's more water 3



### vapor in the atmosphere, which causes the earth 4



### to be able to absorb more heat. 5



### So at a certain point

-- and that point 6



### is quite close

-- there will be probably noth ing 7



### that we can do to save the world from climate 8



### change. 9



### So we have now reached a fork in the 10



### road. Years from now, this period will either be 11



### seen as a time of turbulence and proceeded an era 12



### of health, prosperity, and peace, or this time 13



### will be seen as the sad beginning of endless war, 14



### poverty, hunger, pollution, and despair. I hope 15



### that the EPA can make the right choice. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much, both of 18



### you, for your testimony. 19



### MR. STOUT: Thank you for your time. 20



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. It appears that we 21



### have no people waiting to speak at this point, so 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### we will

-- oh. Let me suggest that rather than 1



### me arranging this that you talk to Alan Rush who 2



### is in the back or our folks in the other room, 3



### because they're sort of controllin g the flow. 4



### ATTENDEE: [Speaking off mic.] 5



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. I'm happy to do

-- 6



### just sort of

-- I'm sort of taking the names as I 7



### get them. So I just rely on them to tell me 8



### who's next. 9



### ATTENDEE: There's no one out there right 10



### now. 11



### MR. HARVEY: Oka y. So these folks said 12



### that they asked to speak earlier, but

-- 13



### ATTENDEE: Yeah. I was supposed to speak 14



### earlier, but I wasn't able to get here. 15



### [Simultaneous speaking.] 16



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah, so we have time. 17



### Yeah. Why don't we take the two of you, and 18



### we'll just

-- so please have a seat, both of you, 19



### and

-- 20



### ATTENDEES: [Speaking off mic.] 21



### MR. HARVEY: Great. So sorry about the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### confusion, and I'm glad that we could do this. 1



### Mr. Cunningham, if you could start first, 2



### and, again, if you could just

-- I 'm not sure if 3



### the reporter got your name earlier. 4



### MR. CUNNINGHAM: Okay. Bill Cunningham. 5



### First name, B

- i

- l

- l; last name, C

- u

- n

- n

- i

- n

- g

- h

6



### a

- m. 7



### MR. HARVEY: You can begin when you're 8



### ready. 9



### MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. 10



### I am representing Unions for Jo bs in the 11



### Environment, UJ for short, an organization of 14 12



### unions representing more than 3.2 million workers 13



### in the electric

-- in the energy industries. 14



### UJ is involved in both domestic and 15



### international discussion on climate change and 16



### recognized as an N GO by the UN. UJ members have 17



### carefully followed the development of the 18



### technology that can be applied to coal

- fired 19



### power plants, including the development of carbon 20



### capture and storage. 21



### CCS shows great promise but has not 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### reached the stage of demonstra tion at a 1



### commercial scale. One of the most advanced 2



### efforts was the pilot at the AEP Mountaineer 3



### Plant in West Virginia, which closed down because 4



### of the failure of State regulators to improve 5



### cost recovery. 6



### UJ believes that the use of coal and the 7



### abil ity to build new, more efficient plans is 8



### vital to the economic future and security of the 9



### United States. The electric power industry has 10



### been built on the basis of not putting all of 11



### your eggs in one basket. At the cost

-- as the 12



### cost and availability o f one of the fuels 13



### changes, others are available to help lessen the 14



### impact on consumers. Coal has shown the least 15



### cost variability and the most reliable 16



### availability over time. 17



### Planning for power plants takes place 18



### over several decades, and it is importa nt not to 19



### base future energy policy on the hope that 20



### natural gas prices will stay low. 21



### The uses of natural gas are expected to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### expand into transportation and into LNG export 1



### market which will tighten the supply. Automobile 2



### engines can be converted to nat ural gas use, a 3



### course of action that will be supported by State 4



### and local governments that are under pressure to 5



### reduce emissions from the growing number of 6



### automobiles on the report. 7



### Export in natural gas can also tighten 8



### supplies and raise prices. Cur rently, gas

9



### producing companies are planning to convert 10



### import terminals to export and to build new 11



### export facilities. Given the possibility for 12



### natural gas use in transportation and the 13



### potential for export due to the much higher 14



### natural gas prices in As ia and Europe, it is easy 15



### to see the likelihood for higher and more 16



### volatile natural gas prices in the future. A 17



### substantial rise in the price of natural gas will 18



### increase the competitiveness of coal, a factor 19



### that power companies should be able to act on to 20



### keep electricity prices affordable and reliable. 21



### Natural gas is part of the fuel mix, but 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### it is not a fuel to favor based upon decisions 1



### about the carbon dioxide emissions and global 2



### warming. The first warning about the carbon 3



### dioxide

- equivalent emis sions from natural gas 4



### production and use came from Robert Howarth, a 5



### professor at Cornell who wrote that electric 6



### generation based on natural gas from shale can do 7



### more to aggregate global warming than coal

- based 8



### generation. The problem he pointed out is the 9



### accompanying release of methane during drilling, 10



### fracturing, a transportation. A ton of methane 11



### has the carbon dioxide equivalent many times that 12



### of a ton of carbon dioxide. 13



### Tom Wigley at the National Center for 14



### Atmospheric Research found that relyi ng more on 15



### natural gas would reduce emissions of carbon 16



### dioxide, but it would do little to help solve the 17



### climate problem. It would just be making a 18



### difference around the edges. 19



### In our view, the EPA

- proposed new source 20



### standard would entirely rule out th e construction 21



### of new coal plants, regardless of the price of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### competing fuels and cost effectiveness of 1



### generating electricity with coal. The problem is 2



### that EPA assumes CCS would be available, an 3



### assumption that is unwarranted given the shutdown 4



### of the M ountaineer CCS pilot plant. The prospect 5



### of budget cuts for energy technology programs and 6



### the inability to pass plant change legislation 7



### such as Waxman

- Markey or another mechanism would 8



### set a price for carbon and foster the 9



### construction of CCS facilities

. 10



### An important consideration is the 11



### negotiating process at the UN. The current 12



### agreement at the UN is that a new treaty be 13



### negotiated by 2015 that would go into effect in 14



### 2020. A new treaty would include major 15



### developing countries as well as industrial 16



### countries, which addresses a major problem 17



### preventing acceptance of the protocol in the U.S. 18



### Greater coverage by the treaty would make 19



### offsets available that could be as little as $10 20



### compared to the $70 per ton or greater cost of 21



### CCS. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EPA's proposed NSP S rules out loophole 1



### power plant construction, because it assumes the 2



### CCS would be economically available for the 3



### construction of new power plants. 4



### To ensure an affordable and reliable 5



### energy supply and to make possible the 6



### construction of new, more effic ient coal plans 7



### will require EPA to re

- propose the rule with 8



### separate standards for coal steam units and 9



### natural gas combined cycle units. This would be 10



### in conformity with all other rules that EPA has 11



### proposed to regulate emissions from new sources 12



### under the Clean Air Act. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 15



### And our next speaker, could you introduce 16



### yourself again, please? 17



### MS. FULTON: Oh, yes. My name is Kari 18



### Fulton. It's spelled K

- A

- R

- I. Last name, 19



### Fulton, F as in Frank

- U

- L

- T

- O

- N as in Nancy. I 20



### am the Interim Director of the Environmental 21



### Justice and Climate Change Initiative. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### This is a very big day. I would like to 1



### say that. This carbon rule is a big small step 2



### for the United States of America. 3



### As the largest emitter of greenhouse gas 4



### emission s in the world, it is very important that 5



### we do take the necessary steps to reduce our 6



### greenhouse gas emissions. It's already stated 7



### that it does create pollutants, and for the 8



### communities that we serve, we see this firsthand. 9



### We are excited about the cl osing of long

10



### term coal

- fired power plants, like the Crawford 11



### coal

- fired power plant in Chicago, because when I 12



### go and visit in Chicago, I meet with people. And 13



### one of those people is Daniella, and she is a 14



### young mother. And one of the things that she 15



### to ld me is that in her community of Little 16



### Village, there were 41 premature deaths caused by 17



### the Crawford coal

- fired power plant. So the idea 18



### of reducing the emissions from these carbon

-- 19



### from these coal plants, especially from new 20



### sources, is important. However, we must not 21



### forget that there are many, many more that are 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### already existing, and these regulations won't do 1



### anything to address the emissions from the 2



### already

- existing coal

- fired power plants. 3



### Seventy

- eight percent of African 4



### Americans live withi n 30 miles of a coal

- fired 5



### power plant. Fifty

- eight percent of non

- Hispanic 6



### whites live within 30 miles of a coal

- fired power 7



### plant. That means that there is a large majority 8



### of America that lives near a coal

- fired power 9



### plant, an already existing coal

- f ired power 10



### plant. 11



### So although this is a big small step, it 12



### is still a very small step, and we encourage that 13



### we take this necessary step, so that we can 14



### create even more steps, so that we can reduce our 15



### greenhouse gas emissions and we can secure our 16



### futur es. 17



### By 2050, I'll be 64 years old. I want to 18



### see a future where we don't have to rely on coal; 19



### however, I also want to see a future that is not 20



### jeopardized by natural gas and fracking. I also 21



### want to see a future where carbon capture and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### sequestration d oesn't allow for increase in acid 1



### in our water and in our ocean streams, and these 2



### are important issues that we have to look at. 3



### So I do encourage the EPA to make these 4



### big small steps, but proceed with caution, and to 5



### also, instead of going for more foss il fuels, 6



### going and continuing to build fossil fuels out 7



### the ground, that we think of how we can regulate 8



### our existing coal

- fired power plants, regulate 9



### our other forms of fossil fuels, and move into 10



### more renewable energy technologies that are 11



### actually ava ilable and are better for our health 12



### and for our communities. 13



### We also want to make sure that we don't 14



### create hot spots. Although it's exciting that so 15



### many coal

- fired power plants are closing down and 16



### that this policy may lead to regulations for 17



### existing coal

- fired power plants, we want to make 18



### sure that communities that live in the fence and 19



### front lines of existing coal

- fired power plants 20



### are not burdened by more pollution because of 21



### these regulations. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### So thank you for your time. Thank you 1



### for the work that you do, and I hope that you 2



### consider these comments in the work. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both very much. 4



### Our next pair of speakers, when I call 5



### you, please come up to the front table: Tanya 6



### Roland and Ellis James. 7



### So I'll ask Ms. Roland to go firs t. 8



### After you introduce yourself, you'll have 5 9



### minutes, and pay attention to the colors of the 10



### clock. We will cut you off at 5 minutes. 11



### MS. ROLAND: Thanks so much for letting 12



### us come here and speak regarding new power plant 13



### emissions. My name is Tanya Roland. I was born 14



### in the District, grew up in Arlington, and live 15



### in Falls Church currently. 16



### I am not a specialist or any sort of 17



### expert in the fields being discussed today, so I 18



### apologize up front for my lack of knowledge. I 19



### am merely a profoundly co ncerned member of 20



### humanity. 21



### When I was preparing this statement, I 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### was just floored to learn that the power industry 1



### has had zero regulation for carbon emissions to 2



### date, and, you know, are you kidding me? And 3



### this, the number

- one carbon

- polluting indust ry. 4



### I mean, that really explains a lot, actually. 5



### And, you know, it doesn't take rocket 6



### science to understand and appreciate that we 7



### can't thrive, much less survive, while poisoning 8



### our air. Humans, animals, flora, all living 9



### things share the same build ing blocks of nature, 10



### earth, water, air, fire, space. All living 11



### things like the elements are interconnected and 12



### interdependent. This is easy to see. We 13



### desperately need a paradigm shift from systems 14



### that don't fundamentally proceed these building 15



### block s of life, like toxin

- spewing power plants, 16



### for example, to ones that do. 17



### We need to move from a view that we're 18



### better than nature to the realization that we are 19



### nature. This is wisdom in action. It's common 20



### sense. Any child can understand this. If o ur 21



### arrogance and ignorance keep us from this 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### realization, then things will undoubtedly get 1



### very rough. The current paradigm has no wisdom. 2



### Wisdom would best eliminate toxic 3



### concentrations of pollutants at their sources and 4



### at least merit regular moratori a on dubious 5



### practices that can threaten our air, water, and 6



### soil. 7



### Those who desperately cling to the status 8



### quo addiction to fossil fuels argue that it isn't 9



### government's role to choose winners, and yet we 10



### all know that laws and regulations are created t o 11



### support some chosen industry issue, activity, for 12



### someone's benefit, and this is a good thing. The 13



### entire industrial revolution was able to manifest 14



### because the industries of coal, electricity, gas, 15



### steel, et cetera, were at some point given broad 16



### suppo rt. 17



### And one of the beauties of our government 18



### is that we can change course when it becomes 19



### self

- evident that old practices cannot and do not 20



### apply to current circumstance. The fossil fuel 21



### paradigm as

- is has run its course. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### One role of the government is to have 1



### laws that protect us from substances and 2



### practices that induce harm. The need to hold an 3



### industry accountable for poisoning the purity of 4



### the element and dramatically limiting their 5



### ability to do so in the first place is 6



### straightforward and, again , self

- evident, yet our 7



### culture has been literally railroaded into 8



### letting these industries steer the ship and 9



### remain unaccountable for far too long. 10



### I have no problem whatsoever with our 11



### rights to make profit; however, allowing power 12



### plants to gush toxic particles forces everyone to 13



### ingest them. These substances also absorb into 14



### soil and water. No living thing is safe from 15



### them. 16



### By not restricting them, much less 17



### eliminating them, not only is everyone literally 18



### drinking the Kool

- Aid, but, in essence, t he 19



### government is dishing it out. 20



### If we continue to force a narrow view 21



### that restricts unabated nature's wealth, she gets 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### weak, ill, and we right there with her, and 1



### systems collapse and die. 2



### Civilizations throughout history have 3



### collapsed. Overuse, depl etion of resources, 4



### these are primary common factors. Our modern 5



### contribution to this historical formula are toxic 6



### poisons and deadly efficiency. Are we so arrogant 7



### to believe that we're somehow magically immune? 8



### Energy, health and medicine, agriculture, 9



### economy, these are also interdependent and 10



### interconnected. If we examined and implemented 11



### these industries and practices from a baseline of 12



### ecological protection, it would be so easy to 13



### solve so many of these problems we face. 14



### It goes without saying, I totally support 15



### strict standards for new power plant emissions, 16



### and absolutely emissions at existing power plants 17



### need to be dramatically regulated and reduced. 18



### Our legal system uses standards of proof 19



### called "reasonable doubt." While there is more 20



### than enough reasonable doubt as to the dangers of 21



### fossil fuels, widespread chemical use, nuclear 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### waste, nanoparticles, genetically altered 1



### products, and other potentially dangerous and 2



### deadly human

- made substances, we blithely allow 3



### them into the ecology, into our bodies, without 4



### making companies prove outright their safety on a 5



### long

- term basis beforehand. 6



### MR. HARVEY: Ms. Roland, your time has 7



### exposed. 8



### MS. ROLAND: One more sentence. 9



### To me, this is not summarily unwise but 10



### suicidal. If we don't turn the shi p with 11



### everyone on board, fasten your seat belts. It's 12



### going to be a bumpy night. 13



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. Thank 14



### you very much. 15



### Our next speaker is Ellis James. 16



### MR. JAMES: Yes. My name is Ellis W. 17



### James. I'm a proud member of the Sierra Cl ub, 18



### but I also happen to be a Norfolk environmental 19



### commissioner from my city, and I am appalled by 20



### the fact that the power plants still have no 21



### regulations whatsoever. And I think this is 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### doing a great deal of harm across the country, 1



### but I'm going to be a little more power plant 2



### specific. 3



### We in Hampton Roads are now confronted 4



### with the possibility of a new coal

- fired power 5



### plant being built in Dendron, Surry County. 6



### Now, my city, Norfolk, happens to be 63 7



### miles downwind of that power plant proposal. 8



### T hese new regulations are extremely important, so 9



### that we can bring to the table honestly the 10



### people who are proposing this plant. They have 11



### in the past rejected commitment to the new 12



### technology and to the emissions control 13



### technology that is so much neede d in this 14



### industry, and because they have refused to commit 15



### to that, many people in Hampton Roads and in the 16



### eastern part of Virginia are extremely upset with 17



### their arrogant attitude. 18



### I mean no disrespect to the individuals. 19



### They are very nice people. I have met some of 20



### them, and I have been to some of the hearings, 21



### but the fact of the matter is that these people 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### just to the west of my city, about 59 to 63 1



### miles, are going to subject us to the pollutants 2



### that we are so much in support of EPA now 3



### regulati ng in a reasonable fashion and effective 4



### fashion with the new regs for the new plants. 5



### The fact of the matter is that the health 6



### risks, the economic risks for those of us in 7



### Southside, Hampton Roads, are tremendous. Think 8



### about it: pollution raining dow n, more mercury 9



### on our children and our grandchildren that we had 10



### hoped to be able to hand off the baton to and a 11



### clean world and clean air especially. 12



### Hampton Roads has just been dragged into 13



### the equation of having attainment within the EPA 14



### regulations t hat do exist. The building of this 15



### power plant raises in our minds and our concerns 16



### the possibility of thrusting us back into 17



### nonattainment. That makes no sense. That is 18



### absolutely antithetical to the objectives and the 19



### mission of EPA, which we the citi zens who have 20



### traveled here today to speak to, we still have 21



### faith that EPA is committed to its mission of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### providing clean air and clean water to our 1



### citizens. 2



### I'm a young fellow. I'm not going to be 3



### here when all of this finally takes place, but I 4



### want to hand off to our children and our 5



### grandchildren a clean air to breathe and clean 6



### water to drink, and we're talking about all of 7



### the above. 8



### I hope and pray that EPA will not back 9



### down, and I can assure you from speaking to 10



### groups, including the Hampton R oads Planning 11



### District Commission in Hampton Roads

-- I go and 12



### take advantage of public comment periods, and 13



### speaking to those 17 mayors, city managers, and 14



### representatives who are council members about 15



### this issue, the emissions issue, I can assure you 16



### tha t the numbers of people who come to me

-- and 17



### I'm not even an elected official. They come to 18



### me and say, "Ellis, that is exactly

-- you hit it 19



### right on the money. That is exactly what we need 20



### to do. Stop them from badgering and fighting the 21



### EPA, and let them get these regulations in place, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### so that we can actually breathe the clean air and 1



### drink the clean water." 2



### Thank you very much. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. Very 4



### clear. 5



### Questions? 6



### [No response.] 7



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 8



### Our next speakers, J oe Cook and Steven 9



### Heinitz, and I apologize to everyone whose names 10



### I am mispronouncing. 11



### So, Mr. Cook? Are you Mr. Cook? 12



### MR. COOK: Sure. Yeah. 13



### MR. HARVEY: Okay, great. 14



### We have Steven Heinitz here? Steven 15



### Heinitz? 16



### [No response.] 17



### MR. HARVEY: All right. I am going to 18



### exercise my prerogative and move on to the next 19



### person then. Scott Segal, are you here? 20



### MR. SEGAL: Yeah. Sure. 21



### MR. HARVEY: All right. We're going to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### advance you since Mr. Heinitz is not here, and 1



### I'm going to ask Mr. Cook to go first and Mr. 2



### Segal to go second. 3



### So when you're ready, we'll start the 4



### timer. 5



### MR. COOK: Okay. My name is Joe Cook, 6



### and I live at 1147 Surry Crescent in Norfolk, 7



### Virginia. I am a member of the Sierra Club. I 8



### am the chair of the Clean Air Group in No rfolk, 9



### the Chesapeake Bay Group, and I come today to 10



### strongly speak in favor of the EPA's long overdue 11



### new source performance standards on carbon 12



### pollution limits for new power plants. 13



### I live in a city already experiencing the 14



### effects of carbon pollution, the main contributor 15



### to climate destruction for consequent sea level 16



### rising and directly linked to life

- threatening 17



### air pollution. 18



### For the first time over the last 75 years 19



### of its existence, my house as well as my 20



### neighborhood was surrounding by water an d nearly 21



### flooded twice by storm surges over the last 4 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### years. As one standing on the front lines of 1



### climate change, I have a personal interest in 2



### seeing this rule put in place and vigorously 3



### enforced to save my home. 4



### Two old dirty coal power plants alrea dy 5



### operate in our area and constantly spew carbon 6



### and a toxic mix of 70 substances into the air, 7



### water, and soil, any one of which could lead to 8



### severe illness or premature death. This is 9



### especially true if you are in an at

- risk 10



### population, such as asthma tic, fetuses, infants 11



### and children, persons with heart and respiratory 12



### problems, or anyone with a weakened or 13



### compromised immune system, such as myself. 14



### I have lupus which has weakened my immune 15



### system. So emissions from burning coal put me at 16



### higher ris k for more suffering and premature 17



### death. So this rule is especially personal for 18



### me. 19



### Yet even though carbon threatens our 20



### health, our economy, and our children's future, 21



### it is beyond logical reason that we currently 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### have no national limits on how much c arbon and 1



### deadly poisons can be released into our air by 2



### the nation's largest source of carbon pollution: 3



### dirty coal

- fired power plants. 4



### If we know a company or industry is 5



### preparing to dump even more hazardous waste into 6



### our air, water, and back yard, w hy not try to 7



### stop it before it's too late, as was mentioned 8



### earlier about the coal plant that they're 9



### proposing, 60 miles upwind from us? 10



### In fact, if you or I dumped arsenic, 11



### cyanide, lead, or mercury onto our next door 12



### neighbor's property, we would like ly be charged 13



### with a crime and arrested. Why should 14



### corporations be allowed to get a permit and do 15



### the same thing just to make a profit? Why can't 16



### we see the carbon, mercury, and other pollutants 17



### in the air and water with our eyes? Even though 18



### we can't see it, we can certainly see their 19



### damage in the severe cases of asthma, bronchitis, 20



### heart disease, cancer, and brain damages to 21



### fetuses, infants, and children. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### According to the Clean Air Task Force, 1



### coal pollution in the United States costs us more 2



### than $100 billion annually in health cost. Over 3



### 12,000 emergency room visits per year are due to 4



### coal

- related illnesses. 5



### The same report estimates that the coal 6



### plants nearby to Norfolk burden our residents 7



### with an additional $90.6 million annually in 8



### health care

-- that's just for the City of 9



### Norfolk

-- and 14 premature deaths attributed to 10



### emissions from burning coal. 11



### So let's stop putting the profits of the 12



### 1 percent before the common good of the 99 13



### percent. Please place the health of 300

- million

14



### plus, ou r precious environment and the economy 15



### above the corporate bottom line. If we looked at 16



### this on a cost

- benefit basis, in fact, with the 17



### known harm to our health, the premature deaths, 18



### environmental damage, and adverse environmental 19



### impacts, coal

- burning p ower plants are big 20



### losers. 21



### EPA, DOE, and industry projections 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### indicate that due to the economics of coal and 1



### natural gas among other factors, new power plants 2



### that are built over the next decade or more would 3



### be expected to meet the proposed standard eve n in 4



### the absence of the rule. So let's move ahead 5



### with it at all deliberate speed, because it is 6



### not expected to cause significant additional cost 7



### that would impact electricity prices or the 8



### liability. 9



### Furthermore, energy companies can meet 10



### this standard by using plain renewable energy and 11



### technological innovation, as noted by the fact 12



### that several States and foreign countries already 13



### have limits on carbon pollution. 14



### It's time for our nation to focus our 15



### energy on supporting sustainable clean energy 16



### jobs instead of relying on old, dirty coal

- fired 17



### power plants for our energy. Every family, every 18



### person has the right to breathe clean air, free 19



### from toxic pollution that has taken too many 20



### lives and destroyed too many communities. We 21



### cannot accept more dir ty coal while our friends 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and families miss days of school and work, ending 1



### up in the emergency room or the morgue instead, 2



### perhaps. 3



### These proposed carbon limits will ensure 4



### that our young, the old, those in between, our 5



### communities, and America's work f orce are 6



### healthier while creating thousands of greatly 7



### needed jobs and fighting crime and corruption. 8



### I ask you to follow the science, protect 9



### my home, and protect my health. Thank you. 10



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 11



### Our next speaker is Scott Segal. When 12



### you 're ready? 13



### MR. SEGAL: Sure. If I can get this 14



### thing to work. 15



### MR. HARVEY: We have a timer here too. 16



### MR. SEGAL: Oh, I know. This is just 17



### easier for me to see. Okay. 18



### Thank you very much. On behalf of the 19



### Electrical Reliability Coordinating Council, I am 20



### appearing today to address the carbon pollution 21



### standard for future power plants. ERCC is a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### group of power

- generating companies that provide 1



### reliable and affordable power to millions of 2



### consumers. 3



### The proposed rule has substantial legal 4



### shortcoming s, like its treatment of gas

- fired 5



### power as a standard of performance for other 6



### fossil fuel

- fired facilities instead of as a 7



### completely distinct unit, or the creation of a 8



### new industrial category that throws gas, coal, 9



### and other fossil inputs together for the purposes 10



### of addressing climate change and then teases them 11



### back out for regulation of traditional 12



### pollutants. 13



### But I'm not talking about that today. 14



### That will be in our comments that we file in 15



### June. Today, I want to focus more on feasibility 16



### of the rule as proposed. 17



### EPA has proposed standards that would 18



### require new coal

- fired and certain other fossil 19



### fuel

- fired power plants to use carbon capture and 20



### sequestration, or CCS. If there is not any coal

21



### fired unit or any other fossil

- fired power plant 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in the world that has been able, even with 1



### substantial governmental subsidies, to use this 2



### technology on a commercial scale, the Department 3



### of Energy explains why, concluding their multiple 4



### barriers to commercial development, including the 5



### absence of legal an d regulatory framework, the 6



### lack of clarity on potential long

- term 7



### liabilities, and market failures admitted due to 8



### knowledge spillover. 9



### The current status of CCS technology is a 10



### particular concern to us with respect to this 11



### rule due to the nature of the NSPS program and 12



### the fact that it has immediate and binding 13



### effects even before this rule is final. 14



### Specifically, the effect that this 15



### regulation would have on the current fleet owners 16



### cannot be ignored. While you folks have said 17



### it's on future

-- it's r ight there in the title, 18



### "future power plants"

-- we do think that there 19



### is some lack of clarity regarding modification, 20



### and we take you at your word in the regulatory 21



### preamble when you say that this rule establishes 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### a predicate for the regulation of exist ing power 1



### plants, as you do at page 201 of the preamble. 2



### Some contend that, well, you allow a 3



### transitional group of power plants already under 4



### way to continue their development. This may be a 5



### little bit disingenuous. Let me explain why. 6



### You also have a new source standard under 7



### the mercury and air toxic rule, the MATS rule, 8



### which even the folks that manufacture air 9



### pollution control devices suggest is not 10



### technologically feasible. It is going to take a 11



### while to sort that out, and by the time the new 12



### so urce standards for MATS are sorted out, your 13



### transitional window period, I believe, will have 14



### closed on the NSPS rule. 15



### If you're trying to finance a brand

16



### spanking

- new fossil fuel

- fired power plant, I 17



### think you'd create substantial uncertainty for 18



### that tr ansitional period. I think you can just 19



### start running the transitional period after the 20



### MATS rule is finally resolved. 21



### We do believe that we have a substantial 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### number power plants at risk as a result of this 1



### rule. I will concede it's not solely as a res ult 2



### of the risk of this rule. There are market 3



### conditions that we're taking into account. 4



### There's also the proposed MATS rule that I just 5



### described. There is the cross

- State rule. There 6



### is the ash, the potentially relisting of ash as a 7



### subtitle (c) haz ardous waste. There are changes 8



### to the National Ambient Air Quality Standards. 9



### There are cooling water intake rules, and the 10



### discharge effluent under the Clean Water Act. 11



### All taken together, it's almost we're 12



### getting the feeling that you don't like coal

13



### fired power. It's easy to get that implication, 14



### and that's too bad, really, because while a year 15



### ago, we were at about 44.5 percent of U.S. 16



### electric power, we're now down in the 30s, and 17



### the future is not bright. 18



### But what I would suggest is this. A lot 19



### of the folks you are hearing from today are 20



### associated with the Sierra Club, and look what 21



### I've read in the 24 hours from the Sierra Club. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### There's the Beyond Coal Campaign. 1



### There's the Beyond Gas Campaign. And I now 2



### notice that they are opposing the c onfirmation of 3



### any Nuclear Regulatory Commission commissioner 4



### who actually supports the expansion of nuclear 5



### power. 6



### Well, I'm not sure what their position is 7



### on hydroelectric, but I'm betting Sierra chapters 8



### that are located in the Pacific Northwest also 9



### oppose that. So if I take it altogether, it 10



### means that about 3 percent of U.S. electricity is 11



### supposed to provide 100 percent of U.S. electric 12



### needs. That's unrealistic, and not only that, 13



### it's unhealthy from the perspective of all those 14



### folks that read "I Love Clean Air" on my shirts. 15



### You also need to know that increasing the cost 16



### and decreasing the reliability of electric power 17



### does not come without substantial cost to public 18



### health. 19



### One more item on carbon. Even the agency 20



### admits this rule

-- 21



### ATTEN DEE: Objection. He's making his 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### own

-- 1



### MR. HARVEY: This is not a public debate. 2



### Mr. Segal, finish your statement, please. 3



### MR. SEGAL: Even this agency admits that 4



### there's not likely to be a profound or any effect 5



### on actual global warming associated w ith this 6



### rule. That's true because there's a lot of 7



### different power plants being developed all across 8



### the world. 9



### I want to make one point, though. This 10



### rule will reduce the chances that certain new 11



### technologies are brought to market. I'll give 12



### you one example. Down in Texas, there's a 13



### facility called the Las Brisas Energy Center, 14



### which would use Pepco, not coal, that is 15



### otherwise generated from petroleum refineries and 16



### will continue to be generated by those 17



### refineries. That Pepco can either be recycle d 18



### into energy using state

- of

- the

- art technology 19



### here in the United States, or it could be 20



### exported to Asia at great additional carbon 21



### disbenefit. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Mr. Segal, your time has 1



### expired. 2



### MR. SEGAL: Yep, gotcha. 3



### So at least in one example, carbon rates 4



### go up, not down, as a result the reg. 5



### Thanks. 6



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for your 7



### statement. 8



### Okay. Thank you very much to the both of 9



### you. 10



### Okay. So we are going to go back to 11



### Steve Heinitz,, right, and Margaret

-- 12



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: These two. 13



### MR. HARVEY: I'm sorry. 14



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: There's somebody 15



### else on

-- 16



### MR. HARVEY: Oh, Dan Lashof, Yeah. 17



### All right. So Dan Lashof and Steve 18



### Heinitz are next, and then after that, we will go 19



### to Rocky Sunquist and Margaret Bowker. 20



### Could we have qui et in the outside hall, 21



### please? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### All right. So we're going to start with 1



### Mr. Heinitz. Is that correct? I'm sure I'm 2



### mispronouncing your name. If you could spell 3



### your name for the reporter, and then you have 5 4



### minutes, and then we'll go to Mr. Lashof. 5



### MR. HEINITZ: Last name is H

- e

- i

- n

- i

- t

- z. 6



### MR. HARVEY: When you're ready? 7



### MR. HEINITZ: Yes. As I said, my name is 8



### Steve Heinitz. I'm a resident of Mechanicsville, 9



### Virginia, a suburb in Hanover County, about 15 10



### miles north of Richmond, Virginia. 11



### I've lived and worked in the area for 22 12



### years raising a family, and during that time, 13



### I've witnessed the tremendous growth in our area, 14



### like a lot of areas around the country, and it's 15



### obvious with more growth, more homes, businesses, 16



### we need more electricity. I'm not blind to that. 17



### What most people don't know is the 18



### majority of the power, especially my area, is 19



### generated by burning coal that is mined from 20



### Southwest Virginia. Our economy is very 21



### dependent on coal in Virginia. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Near every day, I witness train loads of 1



### coal going back and forth to the local power 2



### plants, and I'm thankful for the reliable and 3



### affordable power. I know I pay my bill ever 4



### month. 5



### My big concern is that what is the price 6



### of this power that we're getting from coal? I 7



### have a family, and I'm concerned about my health, 8



### my children's health, and further generations' 9



### health, that the power that we're generating from 10



### coal is just going up to the atmosphere. I 11



### believe in climate change. I think it's pretty 12



### evident. I'm not a scientist, b ut since the 13



### enactment of the Clean Air Act in 1970 and its 14



### amendments, it's evident that as a nation, we 15



### need to monitor and limit pollutants released 16



### into the air we all believe. So I think it's 17



### almost common sense that this is something we 18



### need to look at, and I think we're overdue for 19



### strong regulations that limit how much carbon can 20



### be released by coal

- fired power plants. 21



### And I do think, you know, we're not 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### looking to put the coal

- fired power plants out of 1



### business. I think we have to use a common s ense 2



### approach. 3



### I am convinced that our nation's power 4



### companies have the needs to produce electricity 5



### for their customers, while making a reasonable 6



### profit, and not emitting dangerous levels of 7



### carbon into the air that will increase health 8



### cost. That's t he flip side. 9



### You year the debate about health costs. 10



### You know, having cheap electricity and then the 11



### offset of increased cost for health, you got to 12



### weigh all that. 13



### So I appreciate the opportunity to speak 14



### my views to you today, and I just want to supp ort 15



### that you move these regulations forward to 16



### regulate carbon coming from coal

- fired power 17



### plants. 18



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 19



### You can remain seated when Mr. Lashof 20



### speaks, and then we may have clarifying questions 21



### for either of you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Mr. Lashof. 1



### MR. LASHOF: Thank you. Good morning. 2



### My name is Daniel Lasho f . I'm the director of 3



### the Climate and Clean Air Program at the National 4



### Resources Defense Council, and I appreciate the 5



### opportunity to appear here today in support of 6



### EPA's proposal to set t he first national limits 7



### on carbon pollution from coal

- fired power plants 8



### and from power plants in general. This is a 9



### vital step towards protecting public health from 10



### the dangers of climate change. 11



### One of the clearest dangers of climate 12



### change is evident on hot, muggy days, which we're 13



### starting to have today, and they're certainly 14



### unpleasant, but what a lot of people don't 15



### realize is that they're also deadly. And, in 16



### fact, excessive heat events are one of the 17



### largest killers of any weather

- related event in 18



### the United States. 19



### NRDC released a report yesterday which, 20



### based on peer

- reviewed science by Dr. Kalkstein 21



### and his colleagues, shows that the additional 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### excessive heat events that are expected during 1



### this century could lead to 150,000 excess deaths 2



### in the United States, looking just at the top 40 3



### U.S. cities, due to the warming, driven primarily 4



### by carbon pollution. 5



### So EPA is simply doing its job when it 6



### moves forward with limits on carbon pollution. 7



### Its job under the Clean Air Act is to protect 8



### publi c health and the environment from dangerous 9



### pollution, and there's just no question that 10



### carbon pollution from power plants does endanger 11



### public health and the environment. So we're glad 12



### EPA is moving forward. And we strongly support 13



### the fuel

- neutral app roach that EPA has taken in 14



### this rule. 15



### Our electricity system is operated as an 16



### integrated whole, and a megawatt hour of 17



### electricity produced by a coal plant produces the 18



### same benefits as a megawatt hour of electricity 19



### produced by a natural gas plant or a ny other 20



### technology. 21



### So as EPA has noted in its proposal, a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### developer of a new powerplant has a lot of 1



### options about how to design that plant and many 2



### different ways to comply with the standard. So 3



### there would be no justification for EPA to allow 4



### more po llution from certain types of plants based 5



### on a design choice that is completely within the 6



### developers control. So we think it's very 7



### important and a very positive step that EPA has 8



### taken by taking this fuel

- neutral approach, 9



### particularly given that the l ess polluting 10



### options are in fact less expensive as well. 11



### Indeed, NRDC urges EPA to go further in 12



### establishing a fuel

- neutral and technology

13



### neutral carbon pollution standard for new power 14



### plants. We see no reason to make a distinction 15



### among fossil fuel

- generating units based solely 16



### on their technology configuration. 17



### We would urge EPA to include all fossil 18



### electric

- generating unit with a capacity above 25 19



### megawatts in the category of potential affected 20



### sources, and we noted that EPA has specifically 21



### aske d for comment on how to address the issue of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### units that are used only for peaking purposes. 1



### We'll elaborate on that in our written comments. 2



### Now, some opponents of EPA have 3



### characterized this rule as some kind of war on 4



### coal, and we heard from Mr. Segal earlier. He 5



### didn't use those words, but he suggested as much. 6



### This is simply untrue. In fact, EPA has, 7



### as I said, taken a fuel

- neutral approach, and it 8



### has gone out of its way to provide an option that 9



### would allow coal

- fired power plants to have 10



### higher emissions during their first 10 years of 11



### operation as long as they meet the standard on 12



### average over 30 years. 13



### So if coal is losing in the battle for 14



### market share, it's in fact because of market 15



### forces, not because of EPA, and market analysts, 16



### utility exe cutives, independent economists, and 17



### government forecasters have all recognized this. 18



### Let me just cite one example in the time 19



### I have remaining. Alliance Bernstein's senior 20



### utility analyst Hugh Wynne cites the narrowing 21



### price differential between natural gas and coal, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the greater fuel efficiency of combined cycle 1



### power plants that use natural gas over 2



### conventional steam plants and the lower 3



### construction cost of combined cycle gas turbines. 4



### In explaining that it's unlikely that the 5



### economics of coal would improve enough to revive 6



### interest in building new coal plants, even in the 7



### absence of the standard, he said

-- 8



### MR. HARVEY: Your time has expired. 9



### MR. LASHOF: Okay. I will just finish 10



### the quite, if I can. 11



### He said, quote, "We expect the proposed 12



### rule to have little impact on capacity additions 13



### over the remainder of the decade." 14



### So thank you for allowing me to share 15



### this statement. 16



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 17



### Okay. We will move on to our next 18



### speakers then. It will be Rocky Sunquist and 19



### Marga ret Bowker. 20



### Rocky Sunquist? Do we have Rocky 21



### Sunquist here? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### [No response.] 1



### MR. HARVEY: Margaret Bowker is here. 2



### Do we have a replacement for Rocky 3



### Sunquist? 4



### [No response.] 5



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. How about Derek 6



### Meyer? 7



### [No response.] 8



### MR. HARVEY: I'm drawing blanks here. 9



### How about Pete Altman? Mr. Altman, you 10



### are next. 11



### I'm going to put Rocky Sunquist and Derek 12



### Meyer on the list if they show up. 13



### Okay. So if you could again introduce 14



### yourself for the reporter and then begin. 15



### DR. BOWKER: All right . I am Dr. 16



### Margaret Bowker. I have recently moved to 17



### Alexandria, Virginia. I was a resident of 18



### Kentucky, and I am retired biologist. 19



### I wish to speak in support of reducing 20



### carbon emissions from carbon plants. My doctoral 21



### training is in biology, specia lizing in ecology. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I am also a mother and owner of a non

- profit 1



### that supports poor rural villages in Kenya. 2



### I am an active Christian. I founded the 3



### Earth Ministry in my church in Kentucky, and I 4



### founded the Interfaith Coalition on Earth Care in 5



### my forme r community in Kentucky. 6



### I am a concerned citizen, recently moved 7



### to Virginia from Kentucky. 8



### Now, my science tells me, without 9



### question, that all living things

- animals, 10



### plans, microbes, fungi

-- depend on each other 11



### and interconnect with the nonliving. Nitrogen 12



### carbon, that which we are talking today, and 13



### energy, that which we're also talking, all of 14



### this is in a dynamic balance that has sustained 15



### itself over the millennia since life originated 16



### on earth. 17



### In the face of the perpetual fluctuation 18



### and ch ange, which is normal, ecosystems adjust 19



### and slowly adapt to maintain the dynamic balance 20



### that we see; that is, unless interference and 21



### imbalance become too extreme. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Now, we humans are a part of, despite 1



### what some of us think, and depend on the 2



### productivi ty of life of ecosystems, yet we are 3



### changing them fast and drastically. We are 4



### removing resources and species. We are adding 5



### pollutants and foreign species. We are causing a 6



### drastically imbalance that shows signs of 7



### inability to adjust and recover. 8



### Si gns of this imbalance exist everywhere, 9



### and I know all of you have seen and heard of 10



### them. First, we have unprecedented and unnatural 11



### concentrations of CO 2 

### in earth's atmosphere and 12



### water. We have more frequent drought and floods, 13



### and I point out the dev astating Texas drought 14



### last summer and the continuing floods of the 15



### Mississippi River. 16



### We have increased numbers and more 17



### extreme weather events; hurricanes and 18



### tornadoes, for example. 19



### We see around the world prolonged and 20



### repeated failure of once depe ndable seasonable 21



### rains. I have personally seen the results in the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Kenyan villages where I work. People have no 1



### water. The crops die. They are drinking water 2



### that looks like chocolate pudding, and that's all 3



### their is. And then the elephants invade and 4



### destroy the trees in the villages. 5



### We have accelerated species extinctions 6



### with our most visible and beloved, the large 7



### ones, lions and polar bears now threatened, 8



### likely doomed, and we are without doubt in the 9



### sixth major species extinction since life b egan 10



### 3.8 billion years ago. 11



### We see melting of polar ice caps and 12



### glaciers, and over the last two decades, we all 13



### have lived through record

- breaking average 14



### temperatures in our communities, our States, our 15



### nation, and worldwide. 16



### Now, the other half of my message has to 17



### do with my faith. All faiths, including 18



### Christian, teach a reverence for earth and all 19



### life for God's creation. Humans are responsible 20



### for preserving all creation, which God tells us 21



### in all faiths is good and available to use 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### rightly but n ot ours to destroy. 1



### Major world religions are embracing 2



### climate change as an issue of human justice and 3



### survival, and I ask if we are a God

- loving 4



### nation, then can we not hear and act on this 5



### message? 6



### Therefore, my science and my faith 7



### convince me that l eaders must make the difficult 8



### decisions to preserve this balance, the existence 9



### of earth's ecosystems, God's creation. Why don't 10



### we? 11



### And I've thought about this a lot. I 12



### acknowledge ignorance. I acknowledge fear. I 13



### acknowledge comfort in the status q uo, and 14



### certainly opposition by those making huge profits 15



### in the current system. Change in lifestyle and 16



### business as usual is hard and frightening to 17



### people. 18



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Dr. Bowker. Your 19



### time has expired. 20



### DR. BOWKER: Okay. Thank you very

-- 21



### MR. HARVEY: You can wrap up, if you have 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### something. 1



### DR. BOWKER: What I want to say is 2



### America has always been a leader for good, and I 3



### ask you to help our country face the challenge of 4



### climate change and be a leader once again. 5



### Thank you. 6



### MR. HARV EY: Thank you. 7



### Mr. Altman. 8



### MR. ALTMAN: Good morning. My name is 9



### Peter Altman. I am the Climate Campaign Director 10



### for the Natural Resources Defense Council, and I 11



### am filling in for someone today, so I didn't 12



### prepare testimony. I hope you will bear wi th me. 13



### I'm going to read some prepared statement from 14



### my BlackBerry in a moment. 15



### The overall message that I want to convey 16



### to EPA this morning is that there is a massive 17



### amount of public support in the EPA, the EPA's 18



### mission of protecting public health, and for the 19



### proposed carbon standard to set limits on carbon 20



### pollution from new power plants. 21



### And I want to run through some of the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### evidence of that support. I will assume that you 1



### have already heard a lot of testimony about the 2



### science and about the hea lth impacts of carbon, 3



### but I want to make sure as well that this message 4



### comes across loud and clear. No matter how much 5



### political noise is aimed at the EPA and hate 6



### speech like that which comes out of some groups 7



### like the Hartland Institute or the amount of 8



### vitriol that comes from fossil fuel

- funded 9



### organizations like Americans for Prosperity, 10



### which is funded by the Koch Brothers, they make a 11



### lot of noise. They make a lot of noise inside 12



### the Beltway, but I think the evidence is clear 13



### that out in the Stat es, beyond the Beltway, the 14



### public is firmly behind the EPA. 15



### Well over 1 million comments have already 16



### been submitted in support of this standard, which 17



### is, to our knowledge, more comments than have 18



### ever been supported

-- excuse me

-- submitted in 19



### support to an EPA proposed rulemaking than ever 20



### before. So that's just a tremendous outpouring 21



### of public support, and it comes from all over the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### country. 1



### In addition, just at these hearings, 2



### there's something like 200 people who have taken 3



### time off from their d aily lives, from their work, 4



### from their family obligations to come here and 5



### tell you, like Dr. Bowker has, that it is 6



### important for the EPA to move forward with these 7



### standards. 8



### We are also seeing the evidence of 9



### support among our nation's editorial board s, and 10



### I'll read some excerpts from some of them right 11



### now. 12



### The Toledo Blade shortly after the carbon 13



### standard was

-- proposal was made public, the 14



### Toledo Blade came out with an editorial entitled 15



### "Tougher Pollution Rule," and they said the U.S. 16



### EPA has i ssued a rule aimed at limiting 17



### greenhouse gas emissions from new coal

- fired 18



### power plants. That appropriate action is in no 19



### way an effort to deny coal

- fired power's role as 20



### America's dominant energy source, as critics 21



### allege. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### In Pennsylvania, the Pittsbu rgh Post 1



### Gazette said that the rule is a small step, but 2



### it goes in the right direction, toward the next 3



### generation of cleaner power. 4



### I have one other one. The Houston 5



### Chronicle also wrote in support of the standard 6



### saying that the new rule strikes a hea lthy 7



### balance, preventing future construction of the 8



### dirtiest coal plants while leaving room for 9



### natural gas and carbon capture coal plants. 10



### The Dallas Morning News calls it a 11



### sensible compromise. 12



### The L.A. Times called it a small step 13



### forward for earth. 14



### The Salt Lake Tribune, the New York 15



### Times, and a number of other editorial boards 16



### have also weighed in announcing their support for 17



### this standard, its reasonableness, and the 18



### necessity of setting limits for carbon pollution. 19



### And that necessity is also som ething that 20



### can be measured in polling. The American Lung 21



### Association recently publicized a poll by a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### bipartisan polling team, finding that 72 percent 1



### of voters support new standards for carbon 2



### pollution from power plants, and the support is 3



### strong even a fter voters have heard arguments 4



### from both sides of the issue. 5



### So we think it's pretty clear that the 6



### American people want the EPA to move forward with 7



### the new

-- with the carbon standard for new power 8



### plants. 9



### We are also hearing a tremendous amount 10



### of support and urging for the EPA, and NRDC 11



### itself urges the EPA to also move forward with 12



### setting standards for existing power plants. The 13



### support is there. Don't be discouraged by the 14



### Beltway noise. Clearly, the American people want 15



### the EPA to be able to do its job. 16



### MR. HARVEY: Perfect timing. Thank you, 17



### Mr. Altman and Dr. Bowker. 18



### MR. ALTMAN: Thanks. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Questions? 20



### [No response.] 21



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Thank you both for 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### taking the time to talk. 1



### I am going to check once more. Derek 2



### Meyer o r Rocky Sunquist. Okay, great. 3



### Do we have Rocky Sunquist yet? 4



### [No response.] 5



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. 6



### DR. BOWKER: You take two copies, is that 7



### right, what you do? 8



### MR. HARVEY: Sure. We'll take

-- all 9



### these will be in the docket. 10



### DR. BOWKER: Thank you. 11



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 12



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: So you're still 13



### missing Rocky Sunquist. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah. So I'm going to cross 15



### Rocky Sunquist off. 16



### Do we have Ertle Mitchell here? Ertle 17



### Mitchell. Mr. Mitchell, if you could join Mr. 18



### Meyer? 19



### MR. MEYER: "Meyer." 20



### MR. HARVEY: "Meyer." Sorry. 21



### I'm an equal opportunity. I mispronounce 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### everybody's name. 1



### Okay. Mr. Meyer, will go first. If you 2



### could spell your name first, and then we'll start 3



### the time. 4



### MR. MEYER: Okay. My name is Derek 5



### Meyer. That's D

- E

- R

- E

- K, M

- E

- Y

- E

- R. And I'm 6



### here today to talk very briefly about the 7



### proposed carbon pollution standard. 8



### My first concern is about the necessity 9



### for addressing the health effect to pollution, in 10



### particular both for the next generation and for 11



### the gro wing number of seniors in our population. 12



### We need to do the right thing for everyone from 13



### a health standpoint, and this standard is a key 14



### step forward for that. 15



### I'm also concerned about the impact of 16



### climate change, such as the rise in sea level 17



### that we' re already seeing. This will put a 18



### significant and historic portion of my hometown 19



### of Alexandria underwater along with large areas 20



### along Virginia's coastline, including the naval 21



### facilities in Hampton Roads and other major areas 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### as well such as New York C ity. 1



### While some steps have been taken and are 2



### continuing to be taken to address these symptoms, 3



### we as a nation need to address pollution as the 4



### primary cause, and again, this proposed standard 5



### is a vital step toward that. 6



### So I want to thank everybody her e today 7



### and EPA overall, both for holding these hearings 8



### and listening to everyone's input and for 9



### enacting standards that we would consider a step 10



### forward. 11



### Thank you. 12



### MR. HARVEY: Mr. Mitchell. 13



### MR. MITCHELL: Yeah. My last name is M

14



### i

- t

- c

- h

- e

- l

- l. 15



### I' m am accountant by training, but I'm 16



### going to give a history lesson this morning. I 17



### don't think we're heard a history lesson yet. 18



### Go back 200 years, most people consider 19



### the industrial revolution took place in England. 20



### At that time, they had cottage ind ustries, okay? 21



### And what that consisted of mostly was a family, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and they'd have a couple of rooms in their 1



### cottage. And that's how they made cloth. 2



### Now, at that time, clothing was very 3



### expensive, because this was a very slow process. 4



### Well, along about t his time 200 years ago, a 5



### couple guys got smart, and they figured out how 6



### to make factories, and they located these 7



### factories right along rivers for the water power, 8



### okay? 9



### Well, it seems that these weavers in 10



### these homes, they didn't like this idea, "Hey, 11



### I'm going to lose my job. I can't compete." So 12



### they actually sabotaged the looms, okay? They go 13



### in and throw sand and rocks in them and so forth. 14



### But the thing about it, the industry 15



### prevailed, and so now we all have cheap cotton. 16



### I don't know about you guys, but my wife has got 17



### more clothes than she can possibly wear, okay? 18



### So, anyway, that happened. We saw an 19



### improvement. 20



### Along around the same time, someone came 21



### up with the idea of making steam shovels. For 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### every steam shovel that was produced, 30 ditch 1



### diggers, pick and shovel guys, lost their jobs. 2



### However, nowadays, progress happened. We made 3



### steam shovels, and now, of course, we've got even 4



### more effective

-- what I'm driving at here is the 5



### coal industry is going to scream, okay? We know 6



### th at. We all see the ads. 7



### I live inside the Beltway, okay? I'm one 8



### of these inside the Beltway, and I've lived here 9



### for 36 years. So I know. I know how it works. 10



### A neighbor across the street from mine 11



### was a lobbyist for the banking industry. One day 12



### j ust before Christmas one year, he popped his 13



### trunk, okay? And he showed me all the bottles of 14



### Chivas Regal that were in the trunk, okay? He 15



### says, "Guess where these are going?" I said, 16



### "Well, they're not coming to my house." He says, 17



### "You got it." 18



### So we know there's going to be a 19



### tremendous amount of lobbyists. We know that. 20



### We've seen it already. All I'm saying to the 21



### EPA, stand by your boots. You're doing a great 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### job, and let's keep it up, okay? Don't bend 1



### over. 2



### You guys, you're civil students. You're 3



### not going to be impacted by the lobbyists, but 4



### think about guys like everybody in this room, 5



### okay? Keep up the good work. 6



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Mitchell and 7



### Mr. Meyer. 8



### Our next speakers ar Peter Roquemore and 9



### Phillip Collins. 10



### And again, I'm sure I'm mispronouncing 11



### your name. So if you could pronounce it 12



### correctly and spell it correctly, that will help. 13



### SO who is Mr. Roquemore? 14



### MR. ROQUEMORE: I'm Mr. Roquemore. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Roquemore, there you go. If 16



### you could spell it, please, firs t? 17



### MR. ROQUEMORE: Yeah. Roquemore is R

- O

18



### Q

- U

- E

- M

- O

- R

- E, and I am also going to read a 19



### prepared statement today. I'm from the Union of 20



### Concerned Scientists, and I am reading a prepared 21



### statement from Angela Anderson, the director of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### our Climate and Ener gy program. 1



### So thank you for giving me the 2



### opportunity to testify in this important matter 3



### today. Today, I would like to emphasize three 4



### little known aspects of the carbon emission 5



### standards for new power plants. 6



### The record of these proceedings should 7



### s how that the proposed rules had been anticipated 8



### for over a decade, are quite modest and 9



### reasonable, and send an economic signal to the 10



### utility industry and its regulators that it's 11



### critical to the long overdue modernization of our 12



### electricity system. 13



### The energy industry has anticipated 14



### carbon standards for many years. It has actively 15



### sought regulatory certainty. 16



### In a speech on September 29th in the year 17



### 2000 in Saganaw, Michigan, then

- Candidate George 18



### Bush promised to work with Congress, 19



### environmental g roups, and the energy industry to 20



### require carbon emissions reductions from power 21



### plants within a reasonable period of time. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### While President Bush reversed himself on 1



### that promise, there has been a decade of public 2



### policy debate on whether, if, and how to r egulate 3



### carbon dioxide from power plants. 4



### When the Supreme Court ruled that Carbon 5



### was a pollutant, the die was cast, and power 6



### companies have known that carbon regulation was 7



### inevitable. 8



### Responsible companies have had many years 9



### to plan how to provide t heir customers with lower 10



### carbon power options. EPA's rules for new power 11



### plants make it clear to utilities and State 12



### regulators that as a nation, we have committed to 13



### reducing the emissions of the power sector over 14



### time, and that they will be held respon sible for 15



### making decisions that produce that result, and 16



### that consumers will be the beneficiaries. 17



### The carbon emission standard for new 18



### power plants is an historic step forward, but in 19



### reality, it will only trim carbon emissions over 20



### time and is a very mo dest approach. The new 21



### plant rule will help create a cleaner, healthier, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and more modern energy future. UCS thinks the 1



### EPA rules are part of a necessary framework 2



### needed to address the dangers of unchecked 3



### climate change that an overwhelming majority of 4



### scientists have been warning us about for years. 5



### Throughout the last decade, much has been 6



### learned about climate change, the likely impacts, 7



### and the emissions reductions needed to give us 8



### the best chance of avoiding catastrophic 9



### consequences. The rules f or new plans alone will 10



### not get the job done and is far from the 11



### overreach industry claims. It is a good first 12



### step, but many more steps are needed. 13



### EPA should resist efforts to slow 14



### progress to enact rules for existing plants, and 15



### Congress should not in terfere with the 16



### implementation of this long

- awaited step toward 17



### building an energy system that is designed with 18



### climate change in mind. 19



### Carbon emissions alter our climate and 20



### harm America's health. Fortunately, we have the 21



### technology to reduce it. Turn ing on more 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### renewable energy can curb our emissions and put 1



### innovative technology and more Americans to work. 2



### This rule, while not perfect, signals that more 3



### of our future energy needs will be met by clean, 4



### affordable, and reliable sources of energy. 5



### The first

- ever national carbon pollution 6



### standard for power plants is essential to spur 7



### innovation in clean technologies that will create 8



### more clean energy jobs, but most important, this 9



### rule will eventually reduce the effects of 10



### climate change. 11



### Today, you w ill hear doctors, nurses, 12



### scientists, and other experts that say carbon 13



### pollution is dangerous for children and other 14



### vulnerable populations . Rising temperatures are 15



### likely to bring more smog, which will trigger 16



### more asthma attacks. To parents of childre n with 17



### asthma, clean air and climate is personal. 18



### Coastal cities around the country are 19



### coming to grips with the reality of sea level 20



### rise, storm surge, and antiquated water 21



### management plants. Longer and more frequent 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### periods of drought worry farmers and ranchers. 1



### Climate change to those folks is personal. 2



### The nation's power generators have long 3



### known the dangers their carbon emissions pose to 4



### our health. They have more options than ever 5



### before to meet our power needs without increasing 6



### carbon pollutio n. 7



### Thank you, EPA, for proposing a rule that 8



### will require them to do exactly that. Let's 9



### bring a close to the decade of delay and get down 10



### to the business of creating a climate resilient 11



### energy system that truly works for a warmer 12



### world. 13



### And, personally , in 2009, I had the 14



### chance to sit down with Administrator Jackson in 15



### Copenhagen just after the endangerment finding. 16



### We had a conversation about the U.S. path forward 17



### in relation to the international context, and she 18



### told me that she was proud of EPA's s cience and 19



### the hard work EPA would be doing to put us on the 20



### right path forward, to reduce emissions and bring 21



### clean energy to the future. So keep it up. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Roquemore. 1



### Mr. Collins. 2



### MR. COLLINS: My name is Phillip Collins. 3



### Phi llip is two l's. Collins, C

- O

- L

- L

- I

- N

- S. I 4



### want to thank you for allowing me to testify in 5



### support of the standard to limit carbon from 6



### power plants. 7



### I'm an attorney in the District of 8



### Columbia Bar. I am normally in the local courts, 9



### but I have an inte rest and a hobby looking into 10



### the energy environment and climate future of our 11



### country. I have a Meetup group, D.C. Environment 12



### Meetup. I'm here today on behalf of the Sierra 13



### Club, when someone wasn't able to attend. 14



### The carbon standard and your propose d 15



### action falls within a continuum of science and 16



### public opinion and legislation on these issues. 17



### The Supreme Court ruled that the EPA does have 18



### the authority to legislate on this issue that 19



### carbon is a pollutant, and a case under the Clean 20



### Air Act, which was originally developed when the 21



### public became concerned about environmental 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### issues back in the '70s. 1



### But now that there's increased concern, 2



### obviously quite apparent change sin climate, we 3



### can see it in the types of plants that grow and 4



### the types of win ters that we have and the types 5



### of summers that we have, and the pollution has 6



### been tied in a long time ago with carbon 7



### emissions. 8



### Now, carbon, of course, is not a 9



### pollutant in terms of like acute. Just having a 10



### little amount of carbon is not like having a 11



### little amount of arsenic in your system, but in 12



### terms of the effect that it has on global 13



### warming, because it captures the temperature for 14



### us, and as a result the long

- term issue, the 15



### climate will change. 16



### Now, we could think just in the short 17



### time, but it's important to think that we would 18



### have children, grandchildren, and many 19



### descendants coming after us, and if we stand on 20



### these shoulders, the giants, we should at least 21



### stand up as much as we can to be those strong 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### shoulders for the future generation. 1



### The rule may have some temporary and 2



### short

- term effects which could actually anger 3



### some people and particularly the people that gain 4



### a lot of wealth through carbon emissions which 5



### may

-- the cause may rise, and it may be a lot of 6



### citizens are concerned, but I understand the 7



### testimony today that the public does generally 8



### support this. There is a rule to support this in 9



### the law. 10



### The Supreme Court has said that the EPA 11



### does have the right to regulate, and it should go 12



### forward with this. 13



### I've been active a nd I've seen, for 14



### example, James Hansen, the climate scientist from 15



### NASA in Washington, D.C. at some meetings, and 16



### he's spoken. I've talked to implementation 17



### personally also about this, and the carbon is an 18



### effect. He was on the ICPC, which won the Nobel 19



### Prize. So it's a global concern. 20



### Other nations are addressing it even more 21



### than we are. Denmark, Iceland, and other 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### countries are moving to use a lot of alternative 1



### energy. Iceland has a lot of geothermal power. 2



### Denmark has a lot of wind. We should look into 3



### that, but we also need to reduce the carbon 4



### coming out of the plants that we do have now, 5



### some of which obviously are going to be needed to 6



### keep our economy running. 7



### But the incremental cost is certainly 8



### going to be worth it in the long run, and we 9



### can't just think in the short term. I think 10



### that's the main public opinion here is that we do 11



### need to think of our children, grandchildren, and 12



### beyond, far beyond that. 13



### So I thank you. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Collins. 15



### Next up are Paul Ryder and Amanda 16



### Formica, and then after that, we will have Dave 17



### Redding and Henry

-- I'm going to mispronounce is 18



### -- "Ickes"? 19



### So Paul Ryder and Amanda Formica. So, 20



### Mr. Ryder, if you could start by spelling your 21



### name. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. RYDER: My name is Paul Ryder, last 1



### name R

- Y

- D

- E

- R. 2



### MR. HARVEY: Whenever you're ready. 3



### MR. RYDER: Paul Ryder, Vienna, Virginia. 4



### I'm in product development for a 5



### telecommunications company. I consider myself a 6



### tree

- hugging Republican. I've never actively 7



### participated in any bureaucratic de bate outside 8



### of the office but feel I have to weigh in on this 9



### one. 10



### I strongly support the EPA's proposed 11



### carbon pollution standards for new power plants 12



### and would even support tightening the carbon 13



### pollution standards for existing power plants 14



### within rea son. 15



### I've been to Beijing a few times and have 16



### seen the jeopardy that people can be put in when 17



### governments have an overly permissive attitude 18



### toward polluters and their impact on the 19



### environment. 20



### I've attached a relatively recent picture 21



### I took while ou t on a jog one day in Beijing. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### It's not an overcast day in Beijing. That's just 1



### smog, and it's every day. The only time it 2



### clears up is on a windy day. I understand it's 3



### an extreme case, but it's where we could end up. 4



### Let's see. I have two kids now and will 5



### soon have a third. I need them and the kids they 6



### will one day have to be comfortable playing 7



### outside, swimming in natural lakes and rivers, 8



### and simply breathing fresh, clean air. 9



### It frustrates me to no end that 10



### politicians bent on squabbling wit h one another 11



### can't come together to improve the environment 12



### for their children and mine. 13



### Power plants need to be held accountable 14



### for the pollutants they inject into our 15



### environment. I understand that there will be a 16



### cost that someone, probably the cons umers of 17



### energy, will need to bear. I'm okay with that, 18



### because we make our own choices about how much 19



### energy we can assume and are willing to pay for. 20



### But if we

-- but if decisions are made 21



### regarding power plant pollutants, are made 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### without considering the long

- term impacts to our 1



### kids and grandkids, then we take a choice away 2



### from them. They won't be given the choice to buy 3



### clean air and dirty air. They'll be forced to 4



### breathe the air we enabled. 5



### I'm also concerned about global warming's 6



### impact to pl ant and animal habitats. How can we 7



### almost carelessly continue to wound a global 8



### ecosystem that took millions of years to develop? 9



### As only a small component of the global 10



### ecosystem, how do we justify impacting everything 11



### else in the ecosystem so drastica lly? 12



### I hope that my kids and their kids can 13



### enjoy the same plant and animal diversity that I 14



### have, and I worry that if we don't proactively, 15



### as in the case of new power plants, and 16



### reactively for existing power plants address 17



### carbon emissions now, we are leaving the future 18



### to chance and wishful thinking. 19



### I would love to see all politicians who 20



### have kids comes together and put aside their 21



### political allegiances and do what's right by the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### environment. I know that won't happen, but if 1



### decision

- makers on both sides can consider what 2



### is best for the country our kids live in rather 3



### than what is cheapest now, the debate over power 4



### plant pollutants might be more productive. 5



### The longer we wait to do what's right, 6



### the fewer options we'll have for reversing the 7



### dama ge. It seems like any fixes we implement 5 8



### years from now will be more costly than the 9



### solution we put in place today. 10



### And that's it. 11



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Ryder. 12



### Ms. Formica? 13



### MS. FORMICA: My name is Amanda Formica. 14



### I'm from Arlington, Massach usetts and currently 15



### live in Washington, D.C. 16



### First and foremost, as a young person, I 17



### am testifying in strong support of the proposed 18



### carbon pollution standard. I didn't study 19



### environmental issues in college, nor am I a 20



### professional environmentalist. R ight now I work 21



### with people who are homeless. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### The people I work with sleep on the 1



### street and in shelters and spend most of their 2



### day outside, all in a city graded D in air 3



### quality by the American Lung Association. 4



### I see many people with respiratory 5



### probl ems, asthma and cancer, along with other 6



### health problems and know that the smog from 7



### traffic, construction, and area coal power plants 8



### that functioned until recently on Capitol Hill, 9



### Buzzard's Point, Benning Road, and in Alexandria, 10



### Virginia, all within 5 miles of here, contribute 11



### to these problems. 12



### Moreover, I know people who died on the 13



### street or have life

- threatening emergencies 14



### because of the erratic weather influenced by 15



### climate change from too much carbon in the 16



### atmosphere. 17



### With increasingly high te mperatures in 18



### the summer, unpredictable temperatures in the 19



### fall and winter, and flooding in the spring, 20



### people living outside cannot properly prepare to 21



### stay safe and are left more vulnerable. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Poor people in general, especially people 1



### of color, are more likely than rich people to 2



### live near coal power plants and are more likely 3



### to live in communities from where coal is 4



### extracted. They are, therefore, most susceptible 5



### to the health effects of unchecked carbon and are 6



### the least likely to get the benefits. They are 7



### less likely to have health insurance and often go 8



### into debt and even become homeless, as I've seen 9



### in my job, because they can't afford the bills 10



### for cancer treatment and chronic respiratory 11



### problems. 12



### I also see how the climate has changed in 13



### onl y the 24 years since I was born, including the 14



### winter without snow this year, another historic 15



### winter where the snowpocalypsed 2 years ago, and 16



### the unusual flooding just this week. 17



### I read about island nations like Kiribati 18



### that are evacuating all of their people to Fiji 19



### because the water has risen too much and the 20



### unprecedented tornadoes and floods in the Midwest 21



### and hurricanes on the Gulf Coast. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I am part of the global youth 1



### environmental movement, and I am fighting for my 2



### future. Carbon is the world's most dangerous 3



### pollutant, yet it goes unchecked into the 4



### atmosphere by the U.S., long the world's largest 5



### emitter of pollution and consumer of energy. 6



### Coal and other power plants and 7



### industries emit far more carbon than households, 8



### and they make a profit off of it that the average 9



### person never sees, even if they see the effects 10



### of climate change. 11



### Without strong carbon pollution 12



### standards, like the ones proposed, energy 13



### companies will continue making money today, but 14



### it's the people and the environment tha t suffer 15



### the long

- term consequences. 16



### Not only does the EPA have a 17



### responsibility to represent poor Americans who 18



### are disproportionately affected by climate change 19



### and unchecked carbon but all Americans who are 20



### all vulnerable to major disruption from clima te 21



### change. Because air is a public good that the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### whole world shares, setting these carbon 1



### standards is also a global and historic 2



### responsibility. 3



### I am a member of SustainUS, an 4



### organization of U.S. youth working for strong 5



### international climate policy. I traveled with 6



### SustainUS as a delegate to the COP 17 UNF CCC 7



### climate negotiations in Durban, South Africa, 8



### last December. I met youth from Australia who 9



### helped pass a climate

-- a carbon tax in their 10



### country and youth from Mauritius, an island 11



### nation, wo rking with their government to keep 12



### their country just from sinking. 13



### American youth had no government policy 14



### to point to at COP 17, yet our country is 15



### historically the world's largest carbon emitter. 16



### I left COP 17 knowing that the world is at 17



### minimum goi ng to get hotter by 2 or 3 degrees 18



### Celsius without strong policy or enforcement. 19



### The 200 young people I worked with, including 60 20



### American youth, know that this is an unacceptable 21



### scenario. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### For today's American children, more than 1



### 20 percent of whom live in poverty and 50 percent 2



### of whom will live in poverty at some point before 3



### the age of 18, and for their grandchildren's 4



### grandchildren, it is vital that we enact these 5



### standards and that they are only the beginning of 6



### major reform to American attitudes to ward energy 7



### consumption and regulation. 8



### Thank you. 9



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Ms. Formica. 10



### Thank you both. 11



### Our next speakers are Dave Redding and 12



### Henry Ickes. So please have a seat at the table. 13



### And if you would first, Mr. Redding

-- 14



### Mr. Redding, if you will go first, spell your 15



### name, and then

-- 16



### MR. REDDING: My name is David Redding. 17



### That's R

- E

- D

- D

- I

- N

- G, and I am a resident of 18



### Charlottesville, Virginia. I am a member of 19



### Sierra Club. I am also part of Virginia 20



### Organizing. 21



### I did not expect to speak this morning. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I'm glad that the EPA opened it up to us, and you 1



### guys seem interested

-- actually interested in 2



### what we're saying. 3



### MR. HARVEY: We are. 4



### MR. REDDING: I think that's wonderful. 5



### I come from Virginia, which is a State 6



### where we put 10,000 p ounds of coal dust in the 7



### air every day. That's just the power plants. 8



### They are the major polluters, but that's 10,000 9



### pounds. That's every day. That's a lot of coal 10



### dust going into the air, a lot of carbon. 11



### We cannot continue this. Our State 12



### capital , I presume one or maybe both of you

-- 13



### Reid, maybe it's you

-- that live

-- 14



### MR. HARVEY: We're both Virginians. 15



### MR. REDDING: Okay. You're both 16



### Virginians. Do you realize that our State 17



### capital has been rated the asthma capital of the 18



### United States? Richmond is now the asthma 19



### capital of the United States, and part of it

-- 20



### not all of it, but part of it is just the 21



### pollutants that we're putting in the air, and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### there's lots of other things. 1



### I know you guys are working on a mercury 2



### standard and all that , and that's good. We have 3



### to get the carbon standard through. We really 4



### needed a stronger standard, but I understand that 5



### you can't

-- what is it that they say? It's like 6



### making sausage; it's not pretty. So I appreciate 7



### what the EPA has been able to d o. 8



### We need to consider the additional costs 9



### other than the costs that we're putting out for 10



### coal at this point in time. From what I 11



### understand, there's between $3 and $9 of 12



### additional health costs for every $1 of coal 13



### costs. So we're, in effect, spendin g a lot of 14



### money on our health, and we have bad health as a 15



### result of that. 16



### There's been scientific studies that have 17



### been done that say that up to 20,000 heart 18



### attacks will be somewhat connected to the issue 19



### of carbon pollution. That's 20,000 people yea r. 20



### We really need to do something to do this, and I 21



### appreciate what the EPA has done. I look forward 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to seeing the mercury standards. So thank you 1



### for what you've done. 2



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Redding. 3



### If you could pronounce your name 4



### correctly? 5



### MR. ICKES: Sure. My name is Henry 6



### Ickes, spelled H

- E

- N

- R

- Y, I

- C

- K

- E

- S. I live in 7



### Arlington, Virginia. I'm a retired Federal 8



### employee, having worked in telecommunications and 9



### information security. I'm 66 years old, which 10



### makes me an early baby

- boomer. 11



### I am trying desperately to fight the 12



### aging process through die and exercise, but 13



### there's not an awful lot that I can do concerning 14



### the overall environment. 15



### Now, in case anyone still needs evidence 16



### of the effects of fossil fuel burning and its 17



### destructive capability, I brought this with me 18



### just in case I had the chance to speak. 19



### This is the December 2011 calendar issued 20



### on behalf of the Long Island Railroad. I became 21



### environmentally aware through my maternal 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### grandfather since I was a child. I have also 1



### been a railroad buff since the same period of 2



### time. So I'm interested in the effects of 3



### railroading on the environment. 4



### Now, back when this particular photograph 5



### was taken, about 1 month after I was born

-- this 6



### is in March of '46

-- the Long Island Rail road 7



### almost exclusively used coal

- fired steam 8



### locomotives on its eastern extremity. The 9



### western extremity was pretty much all 10



### electrified, but steam was the main source of 11



### power. 12



### Allow me, please, to read very briefly 13



### from the caption: Without the coal smoke which 14



### acted like a natural defoliant, the vegetation in 15



### Bethpage got a second chance. This scene where 16



### the central branch of the Long Island Railroad 17



### joins the main line would be hardly recognizable 18



### today, because the flora has fully recovered. it 19



### is tree

- ladened and enveloped with homes. 20



### Steam power was retired 9

- 1/2 years after 21



### this March 1946 photograph was exposed. You can 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### see from the location of the tracks back through 1



### the treeline is a distance of approximately 100 2



### feet, the length of the f ootball field. 3



### This is evidence that if given the 4



### chance, we can recover from the effects of fossil 5



### fuel burning, but we have to give the earth a 6



### chance to recover from all of this. 7



### I support stronger carbon emission 8



### limits, and thank you very kindly for giving me 9



### the chance to speak at the last minute. 10



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Ickes. 11



### Thank you very much, both of you. 12



### All right. Our next speakers are Richard 13



### Whiteford and Alexa Manning. 14



### MR. ICKES: I have a handout. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. 16



### MR. ICKES: You can take that? 17



### MR. HARVEY: Sure. 18



### MR. ICKES: Thank you. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Shall we open the envelope 20



### here? It's sealed. 21



### MR. ICKES: I have one opened. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Okay, great. 1



### All right. After these speakers, just so 2



### we're prepared, the next up are Jay Butera and 3



### Charlotte Leeks. 4



### So we'll start with Richard Whiteford. 5



### If you could spell your name for the reporter? 6



### MR. WHITEFORD: Richard, and the last 7



### name is W

- H

- I

- T

- E

- F

- O

- R

- D, like a white Ford 8



### automobile. 9



### I got to preface my presentation he re 10



### with the fact that this lady is my neighbor, and 11



### we just met today for the first time on the 12



### train. 13



### At any rate, I'm here on behalf of the 14



### Climate Reality Project, and also, I'm a longtime 15



### member of the Sierra Club. 16



### I went online yesterday. I do a lo t of 17



### climate work, and I went on and checked out where 18



### CO 2 

### levels were yesterday. This is a daily 19



### number, but, you know, they look at averages. CO 2 20



### yesterday was at 396.18 parts per million. 21



### That's 116 parts per million higher than the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### homeostatic level for 800,000 years. It's 1



### really, really high, and that's really dangerous, 2



### and that's why we're seeing the weather 3



### situations that we have and so forth. 4



### And that 116 parts per million increase 5



### happened over roughly the last 120 years as we 6



### burned fossil fuels to feed the industrial 7



### revolution. 8



### We are also seeing

-- I just said that. 9



### I'm not good at reading my talks, but due to 10



### this, no matter how you burn oil, gas, wood, or 11



### coil, the end product is CO 2 

### . You can scrub it. 12



### You can clean it. You can do whatever you want 13



### with it, but the end results is it's CO 2 

### . 14



### Now, I think your proposal is great. I 15



### am in support of it because we have to do 16



### something, but we are so far behind the 8

- ball 17



### right now at 396 parts per million that we're in 18



### for a really roug h ride. I mean, you guys know 19



### that. I'm talking

-- you know, I know you know 20



### that, and I'm just concerned about the 21



### administration as a whole not taking, not having 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### enough back bone here to really engage, make this 1



### a campaign issue and engage in really d oing 2



### something about shifting us from fossil fuel to 3



### green technology, and we need to do it really 4



### fast. I just don't understand why. 5



### Another thing I don't understand

-- and 6



### I'm on the forefront of this on a daily basis

-- 7



### is why hearsay trumps science, and when I say 8



### that, I'm talking about the Hartland Institute, 9



### the George C. Marshall Institute, and some of 10



### these other think tanks

-- oxymoron

-- but how 11



### did we ever get there to allow hearsay to trump 12



### science? 13



### This is a life in that situation, and I 14



### re ally hope the EPA takes a strong hand during 15



### this administration to address the problem. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 18



### Next, Ms. Manning. If ou can introduce 19



### yourself again real quick? 20



### MS. MANNING: Yes. My name is Alexa 21



### Manning. Shou ld I spell that? Manning? It's a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### common name. 1



### MR. HARVEY: Go ahead. 2



### MS. MANNING: Thank you very much for the 3



### opportunity to voice my opinion in regard to the 4



### proposed carbon pollution standard for new power 5



### plants. This historic standard will ensure that 6



### power companies who invest in new fossil fuel

7



### fired power plants will use clean modern 8



### technologies that limit harmful carbon pollution 9



### that is a threat to the environment, public 10



### health, and contributes to climate change. 11



### The proposal reflects the trend and the 12



### power sector to build cleaner plants that take 13



### advantage of modern technologies and motivate 14



### power companies to rethink existing outdated 15



### power plants that are responsible for polluting 16



### our air and water. I hope we will be able to 17



### transition or nation to solar and wind power 18



### technologies in the near, not

- too

- distant future. 19



### This is a personal issue for me, and I 20



### just want to talk a little bit about that. A 21



### year and a half ago, I moved from Richmond, Ohio, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### which is southeast of Cincinnati, w hich is home 1



### to two coal

- fired or coal

- burning power plants, 2



### to Downingtown, Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia, 3



### a distance downwind. 4



### Our house in Ohio is still on the market, 5



### and we travel back and forth frequently. I have 6



### had the experience of living very close to the 7



### coal

- burning power plants on the Ohio River, the 8



### Beckjord Station 5 miles to the north and the 9



### Zimmer plant 5 miles to the south. We lived 10



### right smack in the middle, about a mile from the 11



### Ohio River. 12



### It was very common to see smog envelope a 13



### small river town of New Richmond, which is 14



### located a mile south of Beckjord in the morning 15



### and the warmer months. Occasionally, we would 16



### find a dusting of fine particles o our cars and 17



### other outside objects in our yard due to the 18



### nighttime emissions tha t was landing. 19



### Brown smoke poured out of most of the 20



### Beckjord stacks all the time, and the volume 21



### increased noticeably at night. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### According to data from the non

- profit 1



### organization, Clean Air Task Force, both power 2



### plants, 2006 emissions statistics for t he local 3



### area are very high levels of carbon dioxide. I 4



### don't have this listed, but I'm just going to 5



### talk generally about it. 6



### High levels of carbon dioxide, sulfur 7



### dioxide, nitrous oxide, and mercury causing 8



### higher death rates, heart attacks, asthma cas es, 9



### chronic bronchitis, sinus problems, which I had 10



### all the time there, and increased hospital 11



### visits. 12



### Our home's public water source is the 13



### Ohio River, as it is for most people there. The 14



### 58

- year

- old Beckjord plant has three coal ash 15



### ponds that were ins pected in Ohio as having 16



### significant hazard potential from fly ash, bottom 17



### ash, and boiler slag contamination due to earth 18



### slides on the exterior slopes and erosion 19



### gullies. 20



### An unusually early powerful tornado

-- I 21



### don't know if you remember this. There was a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### slew of them in early March that went through 1



### Indiana and Ohio, touched down in Moscow, Ohio, 2



### and directly hit the Zimmer plant, toppling 3



### electric towers, power lines, and buildings on 4



### site as well as most of the small town. We were 5



### just there. It is in operational mode. It's 6



### fine, but it's an area

-- it's tornado country. 7



### When I first moved to New Richmond, Ohio, 8



### in 2004, I contacted the Ohio EPA Sierra Club, of 9



### which I'm a member, and the Ohio Citizen Action 10



### Organization as well as talked to man y people in 11



### the area with my concerns about the coal

- burning 12



### power plants' emissions pollution levels. 13



### I was told that this is an ongoing 14



### concern but may take a long time to change. In 15



### fact, some people

-- I wasn't going to put this 16



### in, but I'll say it

- - said it might take an act 17



### of God to get some changes around here because of 18



### the companies that are established in the power 19



### plant industry in that area. 20



### I believe that individuals, communities, 21



### and organizations can make a huge difference in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### protecting the environment and health, and I was 1



### motivated to be involved with the local Sierra 2



### Club and the Ohio Citizen Action Group on the 3



### region's environmental issues, including a 4



### plastics plant that was emitting a lot of 5



### pollution, Lanxess in Addyston, which is on the 6



### other side of the Ohio River. We went canvassing 7



### and talked to people about the high cancer rates, 8



### and that elementary school, which I'm an 9



### elementary school teacher, not at that school, 10



### was closed down because of the pollution that was 11



### coming fro m directly across the street from that 12



### plant. 13



### Power plants and many others in the area 14



### have employed many local residents and supported 15



### the local communities and schools for many years, 16



### establishing very strong relationships. I was 17



### very aware of this as an elementary school 18



### teacher in the town of New Richmond. 19



### As citizens, we need to do what is best 20



### and right for the health and welfare of everyone 21



### through education

-- I'm strongly believing in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### that, and I'm also an environmental educator in 1



### the summer

- - advocacy and local and Federal 2



### initiatives to regulate the industry and create 3



### opportunities for employment for those people 4



### that may be laid off at other plants. 5



### Fortunately, I was relieved to learn last 6



### July 2011

-- 7



### MR. HARVEY: I have to say it expi res. 8



### If you could wrap it up? 9



### MS. MANNING: Okay. 10



### -- that Duke Energy plan to retire the 11



### Beckjord plant by 2015. 12



### Thank you very much. 13



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 14



### [Applause.] 15



### MR. HARVEY: All right. We have 10 16



### minutes before we adjourn. 17



### We ha ve on our list Jay Butera and 18



### Charlotte Leeks, and the question I have for our 19



### organizers, are we going to go past noon, or are 20



### we going to pick up these people at one o'clock? 21



### [No response.] 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Okay. I'm going to assume, 1



### unless I'm told other wise, that these are our 2



### last two speakers. Then we're going to adjourn 3



### at noon and reconvene at one o'clock. At one 4



### o'clock, unless I'm told otherwise, we would 5



### begin with Lashawn Martin, Marianne Hilgert and 6



### then go to Susan Edwards and Shannon Fishman

. 7



### So that's the plan until I hear otherwise 8



### from our organizers. 9



### Jay Butera, why don't you start. Spell 10



### your name briefly. 11



### MR. BUTERA: Yes. Good morning. My name 12



### is Jay Butera. That's spelled B

- U

- T

- E

- R

- A. 13



### And i'm here to speak with you in two 14



### capa cities. One is as founder of an organization 15



### called One Million Calls for Clean Energy, which 16



### I put together to try and give citizens a voice 17



### to express their opinions to the Federal 18



### Government, and I'm going to submit to you a 19



### petition that our members

- - this is about 3,500 20



### of our members signed, reading as follows: It's 21



### time to make clean energy an urgent national 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### priority. America wants the fast

- track plan that 1



### gets us off oil and coal and onto clean energy 2



### path. We want green jobs, climate solution s, and 3



### freedom from fossil fuels. 4



### This was originally submitted to Congress 5



### when they were contemplating the America Clean 6



### Energy and Security Act, which I worked very hard 7



### to try and get implemented, which actually passed 8



### the House but never was consider ed in the Senate 9



### to the great disappointment of me and these 3,500 10



### people. That's why I'm submitting their names to 11



### you. 12



### When you hear opposition to the ruling 13



### that's proposed, I think you are going to hear a 14



### lot about the cost. They are going to tell y ou 15



### that it's going to raise our electric rates and 16



### that it's going to cost jobs. 17



### I would like to ask you to consider 18



### another type of cost, and that is the cost of 19



### doing nothing. When they tell you that it will 20



### raise our electric rates, I don't think that 21



### those people are considering the true cost of our 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### electricity. They may be focused on what the 1



### electric bill is at the end of the month, but 2



### there's a lot of cost not on that bill. We have 3



### the cost of health care. We have the cost of 4



### national security. We have the cost of damaging 5



### our natural systems. Then we have the cost of 6



### climate change, which I think trumps everything. 7



### And that bill is coming due. I'd like to 8



### ask you, do you also consider a report that was 9



### put together at the request of Congres s by the 10



### National Academy of Sciences? This report was 11



### called "The Hidden Cost of Energy: The Unpriced 12



### Consequence of Energy Production and Use." They 13



### analyzed in great detail the monetized cost of 14



### externalized cost of energy, and they also 15



### studied the cost of climate change, which is a 16



### difficult thing to put a dollar on, but they did. 17



### They came up with a range of scenarios 18



### that told us that the cost

-- the climate damage 19



### is costing us up to 10 cents per kilowatt hour of 20



### electricity, and that's what the y say the cost is 21



### if we perceive with our current energy generation 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### portfolio unchanged. 1



### Now, that's about equal to what the 2



### average kilowatt hour costs across the United 3



### States, commercial and residential. So what 4



### we're really saying is that electricity costs 5



### twice as much as our electric bills do, and I'd 6



### like to say that in my opinion, that's a very 7



### huge energy tax. 8



### So I consider the rule that you've 9



### proposed to be absolutely a cost reduction 10



### program. If we can begin to reduce the costs 11



### that we are i ncurring on climate change, health 12



### care, it will go a long way to actually reducing 13



### our total cost. 14



### I also consider it a jobs program, 15



### because it will create jobs. It will create

-- 16



### it will drive innovation, exportable innovation, 17



### and that is something t hat we need. 18



### So I believe your proposed rule will help 19



### the economy, and there's one other issue I'd like 20



### to mention that's not factored in, in the dollars 21



### and cents, and that's the moral aspect of this 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### issue. 1



### I personally think no pollution is 2



### tolerable. What right do we really have to foul 3



### our air and water? What right do the coal

- fired 4



### power plants have to give me asthma and my son 5



### asthma and to pump mercury into the veins of my 6



### daughters? It's not a right. 7



### And it's not just humans that we're 8



### talkin g about, either. It's also every creature 9



### on earth. The U.S. Naval Research Institute now 10



### projects that the Arctic will be ice

- free in the 11



### summer as soon as 2016, plus or minus 3 years. 12



### Admiral Titley, oceanographer for the 13



### Navy, says that the Arctic wi ll be ice

- free for 14



### at least 4 weeks by 2030. Imagine that! And 15



### what happens to those polar bears who have their 16



### habitat up there? The polar bears cannot stop 17



### climate change. 18



### MR. HARVEY: Your time has expired. I'm 19



### sorry. 20



### MR. BUTERA: Only we can, and I believe 21



### that your ruling is a good step towards doing 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### that. I would urge you to implement it, make it 1



### stick, and enforce it. 2



### Thank you very much. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 4



### [Applause.] 5



### MR. HARVEY: All right. I've been 6



### informed that we're g oing to

-- after Ms. Leeks, 7



### we're going to have two more. We are going to go 8



### to

-- I'm having a hard time reading your note 9



### here. I see Shannon Fishman. 10



### ATTENDEE: [Speaking off mic.] 11



### MR. HARVEY: So who's the second person? 12



### Oh, okay. I'm reading the wrong side of the 13



### paper. 14



### Okay. So we're going to go next after 15



### Ms. Leeks

-- our final two speakers before lunch 16



### are Elaine Pirozzi and Marianne Hilgert. Okay? 17



### So, with that, if you could introduce 18



### yourself? 19



### MS. LEEKS: Thank you. Good morning. My 20



### n ame is Charlotte Leeks. That's L

- E

- E

- K

- S. I'm 21



### from Pittsburgh

-- let's see

-- Pensauken, New 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Jersey, and I'm with the Sierra Club, my first 1



### time speaking. 2



### I'm here to just give a little talk about 3



### asthma from a respiratory therapist perspective. 4



### I shou ld have known this, but I just realized 5



### that the atmosphere has high, high amounts of 6



### carbon that is causing asthma to occur in 7



### children, seniors, and people who are 8



### socioeconomically deprived. 9



### Asthma. What is asthma? It literally 10



### means difficult breath ing. There are certain 11



### factors that are in our atmosphere that are in 12



### the air that will cause an attack. The attack 13



### occurs within our airwaves or our respiratory 14



### tract. It starts with the nose, ends in the 15



### lungs. 16



### The respiratory tracts is very sensitiv e 17



### to these pollutants. If you've ever seen a 18



### patient or a person or child going through an 19



### asthma attack, it will really give you pause to 20



### think as to what are we really doing to our 21



### people. It's a very, very horrible situation 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### when you see people strive to breathe, one breath 1



### after the next. It's very difficult for them to 2



### get the air in, to get the air out, because the 3



### tubes, what we call our bronchial tubes, are 4



### actually going into a spasm. 5



### Also, there is an antibody response that 6



### rushes the antibodi es into the lungs, create 7



### large amount of mucus that is also interfering 8



### with the breathing. So your lungs and tubes are 9



### filling up, and as well as they can't open and 10



### close, get the air in and out like they're 11



### supposed to. 12



### So I'm just here to say that w e really 13



### need to try to keep our generations healthy, 14



### because as to what is going on right now and from 15



### what I'm learning, it's that the contamination of 16



### the carbon in the atmosphere is not good at all 17



### for people, animals, and the environment that we 18



### all l ive in. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much for your 20



### testimony, Ms. Leeks. 21



### I thank you both. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### We will go to our final two speakers: 1



### Elaine Pirozzi and Marianne Hilgert. Please come 2



### up to the table. 3



### MR. BUTERA: May I give this to you? 4



### MR. HARVEY: Yes. We'll put it in the 5



### docket. 6



### MR. BUTERA: Thank you. 7



### MR. HARVEY: Let's start with Ms. 8



### Pirozzi. I'm sure I'm mispronouncing that. 9



### MS. PIROZZI: You're doing it perfectly. 10



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. If you can spell your 11



### name, and then we'll start the time. 12



### MS. PIROZZI: Okay. Good morning

-- or 13



### afternoon. My name is Elaine Pirozzi, and that's 14



### P

- I

- R

- O

- Z

- Z_I. 15



### I live here in Washington, and I'm with 16



### the group, Moms Rising. So I'm not speaking as 17



### an expert, but I'm speaking as a mother. 18



### I am very fortunate because I have two 19



### healthy daughters, one of whom just handed you 20



### those booklets about asthma, and the other one is 21



### 6. As I see it, my job as a mother is to make 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### sure that they stay healthy, and to that end, I 1



### do everything within my power to do. I buy 2



### o rganic food. I read the labels on our personal 3



### care products to avoid certain chemicals. I make 4



### very careful choices, but yet I strongly suspect 5



### that all of those things that I'm doing don't add 6



### up to much if the air that they're breathing all 7



### day, every day, is not clean. 8



### And it's deeply frustrating to me as a 9



### mother that I don't have control over that. 10



### That's one of the things that I have no control 11



### over. So I need to depend on the government. I 12



### need to depend on the EPA to do those things, and 13



### abou t the only thing I can do is be here today 14



### and talking to you. And that's why I'm here, but 15



### after I leave the room, it's all up to you guys. 16



### And I need you to make the right decision. 17



### We need, all of us need you to put our 18



### children ahead of the industri al obvious, and I 19



### know that that's easier said than done, but 20



### that's what has to happen. It's important for my 21



### kids and for all kids, and as mothers, we tend to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### really focus on the children, because that's 1



### where our hearts are. And that also, frankly, 2



### re sonates with people, but it's not only the 3



### children that are affected by this. 4



### Senior citizens are also 5



### disproportionately affected by pollutants in the 6



### air. So that's our parents, the older 7



### generation, as well as all of us. I mean, nobody 8



### is immune fro m that, but just to go briefly back 9



### to the kids, I don't expect the government to 10



### love my kids, but I do expect the government to 11



### protect my kids, because as I see it, that's why 12



### they're here. 13



### And as ordinary citizens, we depend on 14



### the government to do th at and to look out for our 15



### best interest, not for the industry's best 16



### interest but for the people's best interest. 17



### So I'm asking you to please do that by 18



### supporting the carbon pollution standard or even 19



### a step further in strengthening the standards for 20



### ca rbon pollution. 21



### Thank you very much. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 1



### And our final speaker before lunch is 2



### Marianne Hilgert, and you can want to introduce 3



### your daughter, if you want. 4



### MS. HILGERT: This is Tatiana. She is 4 5



### years old. 6



### My name is Mar ianne Hilgert, and I'm also 7



### here with Moms Rising and as a Latina to ask you 8



### to support the carbon pollution standard. 9



### I strongly support these new standards 10



### and commend the EPA for protecting our kids and 11



### families from dangerous air pollution. That's 12



### yo ur job to protect these little ones. 13



### Tatiana has been very fortunate. She has 14



### no symptoms of asthma, but I'm here also because 15



### of her older sister, Gabriella. Gabriella is 16



### commonly known as "Gabby," and she was diagnosed 17



### with asthma just at the age of 2 . So imagine a 18



### little 2

- year

- old on this medication. 19



### Gabby is now 7 years old and first grade. 20



### Right now, she's taking this medication every 21



### day. This is just her control medication. When 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### she's sick, like when she has a cold or another 1



### respiratory inf ection, she has to take this plus 2



### this. It's most likely some type of antibiotic. 3



### Last year, Gabby missed 5 weeks of 4



### kindergarten because of her asthma, and she had 5



### to remain inside for recess for several more 6



### days. She couldn't go outside into the cold

. 7



### This year has been a bit better. She's only been 8



### sick for 4 weeks of school. 9



### If you don't have a close relative who's 10



### asthmatic, it's probably difficult to understand 11



### the toll emotionally, financially, and 12



### physically, but the illness can take on an en tire 13



### family. 14



### As a family, we try to do everything we 15



### can in our power to combat this disease. She 16



### eats gluten

- free food. We avoid dairy and 17



### processed foods, and she even practices her own 18



### therapy. 19



### My husband also, to try to do whatever he 20



### can, he encap sulated our crawl space by himself 21



### to see if that would prevent some of her attacks, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and as a mother, I'm really worried about my 1



### daughter. I'm worried about the long

- term 2



### effects that the antibiotics, the overall and 3



### inhale steroids, and other medicines can have on 4



### her 44

- pound body, and I've witnessed the short

5



### term effects that these steroids and inhaled 6



### steroids have on her and the tantrums that she's 7



### gotten, but I have no other recourse. If not, 8



### she can end up in the hospital. 9



### But I do have to remin d myself that Gabby 10



### is lucky. She's fortunate that she gets frequent 11



### checkups with the best allergist in the nation. 12



### She has great health insurance, and she lives in 13



### a single

- family home where we can control certain 14



### triggers. And I realize that not all Latinos are 15



### as fortunate as her. Nearly one out of every two 16



### Latinos lives in the country's top 25 most ozone

17



### polluted cities, and Hispanic children are 60 18



### percent more likely to have asthma as compared to 19



### non

- Hispanic whites. 20



### As a parent, I would like t o protect my 21



### daughter and control the asthma effects, but some 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### things like the weather, I cannot control. The 1



### extreme temperature variations that we saw here 2



### in the spring were really hard on my daughter's 3



### lungs. 4



### We should definitely be doing everything 5



### possible to make our air as clean as possible, 6



### and the very idea of not doing it, of not using 7



### the best technologies that we have in setting 8



### pollution standards, but put public health first 9



### makes absolutely no sense to me, nor does it make 10



### sense to the mil lions of moms across this nation. 11



### As a mother and a Latina, I ask the EPA 12



### swiftly adopt these new pollution standards to 13



### protect all our children and families from the 14



### impact of air pollution. 15



### Thank you for your time. 16



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for your 17



### com pelling testimony and for sharing your time 18



### with us. 19



### So, with that, we will take a lunch 20



### break, and we will reconvene promptly at 1 p.m. 21



### Thank you. We are temporarily recessed. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### [Lunch recess from 12:08 to 1:06 p.m.] 1



### MR. HARVEY: So we will resume our 2



### hearing. 3



### Good afternoon. I'm going to make a 4



### brief opening statement, and then we will resume 5



### again. My name is Reid Harvey. I'm the Chief of 6



### the Climate Economics Branch in the EPA Office of 7



### Atmospheric Programs. Jim Ketcham

- Colwill, also 8



### in the Air Office, and Scott Jordan, also Air 9



### Office. 10



### So we're here today to listen to comments 11



### on our proposed carbon pollution standard for new 12



### power plants, and I am not going to go through my 13



### full statement, but I'll just cover some of the 14



### logistics. 15



### Today, we are accepting oral comments on 16



### all aspects of our proposal. We'll prepare a 17



### written transcript of the hearing, thanks to our 18



### court reporter. The transcript will be available 19



### as part of the official record for the rule. We 20



### are accepting written comments in the rule until 21



### June 25th. There are handouts outside in the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### registration area for how to submit written 1



### comments, by mail, fax, or electronically, and we 2



### will consider your comments as we move forward 3



### with the final rule. 4



### So for this afternoon's port ion of the 5



### hearing, it will work as it did this morning. I 6



### will call the speakers to the table in pairs. 7



### When it's your term to speak, I will ask you to 8



### state your name and your affiliation before you 9



### begin. If your name is complicated, we will ask 10



### you to spell your last name for the reporter, and 11



### then we will start the timer. 12



### You are limited to 5 minutes. I'd ask 13



### both of you to remain at the table until both of 14



### you have finished speaking. After you finish, we 15



### may ask clarifying questions, but we won' t be 16



### responding to your statement. 17



### If in addition to the transcript of your 18



### testimony you want to put the full text of your 19



### written comments into the docket, please be sure 20



### to give one of us a copy of those written 21



### comments or provide them to the staff ou tside at 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the registration table. 1



### So we have a timekeeping system, green, 2



### yellow, and red lights, to help track your 5 3



### minutes. The green light will last for 4 4



### minutes. Then that will trigger the yellow light 5



### for 1 minute. The red light is your signal t o 6



### stop. I'll give you a few seconds, but if you 7



### haven't stopped, I will remind you to stop and 8



### ask you to wrap up. 9



### So our hearing today will continue until 10



### 4:30 p.m. in this portion. The other room will 11



### go longer, but that may vary depending on the 12



### numb er of speakers. 13



### I think that is it for logistics. 14



### Anything else I missed? 15



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: No, I think that's 16



### it. 17



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Any questions? 18



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: No. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. So our first two 20



### speakers are Gary Ewart and Mike Sandler. So 21



### let's start with Mr. Ewart. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. EWART: Thank you, and good 1



### afternoon. I'm Gary Ewart. I'm director of 2



### Government Relations with the American Thoracic 3



### Society. 4



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Please speak loudly. 5



### We're a little bit far away. 6



### MR. EWA RT: The acoustics in this room 7



### are a bit challenging. 8



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah. 9



### MR. EWART: So the American Thoracic 10



### Society is a medical professional organization of 11



### about 15,000 members who research, treat, and 12



### prevent lung diseases, critical care illnesses, 13



### and sleep disorder illnesses. As such, the 14



### American Thoracic Society has been interested in 15



### air quality, because air quality has a direct 16



### impact on respiratory disease, and we are one of 17



### the thought leaders on the health effects of air 18



### pollution. 19



### Our co ncern about air pollution has led 20



### us to start to be concerned about global climate 21



### change as well. Most recently, the American 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Thoracic Society held a workshop titled the 1



### Respiratory Health Effects of Global Climate 2



### Change. The workshop was held in May o f 2010, 3



### and the workshop document was just recently 4



### published in our journal, the American Journal of 5



### Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine. 6



### I'd be happy to share a copy with staff 7



### at a later point. 8



### This document laid out some of the 9



### existing research o ut there that supports that 10



### there is a direct connection between global 11



### climate change and respiratory health. It was 12



### focused mostly on the need for addressing some of 13



### the unanswered research questions as research

-- 14



### excuse me

-- as global climate change moves 15



### forward, what are the likely respiratory health 16



### effects, what are some of the mitigation steps 17



### that we can take, and what are the research 18



### questions that need to be answered. I hope that 19



### this document will be of use to EPA. 20



### Today, we are speaking i n support of the 21



### proposed carbon standard for electric generating 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### units. The American Thoracic Society does 1



### believe that the evidence discussing climate 2



### change is compelling and feels that immediate 3



### action at State, local, and international levels 4



### is nece ssary. We congratulate EPA for taking 5



### this first step. 6



### I must say Dr. Robin Gross, who we 7



### intended to have present the testimony today, got 8



### hung up in some of her travel plans. She and I 9



### had an interesting conversation at our annual 10



### meeting just 3 days ago. 11



### While it is not useful to use anecdotes 12



### as fact, she has already seen the health effects 13



### of climate change in her practice. Pollen season 14



### is starting earlier. It is going longer, and it 15



### is more intense. This is her observation in her 16



### clinics, is c onsistent with the predictions of 17



### climate change models. 18



### I've had that conversation with several 19



### ATS members who treat people with seasonal 20



### allergies that it is starting early, lasting 21



### longer, is more intense. That means more 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### medications, more potential lost workdays, more 1



### asthma exacerbation. 2



### Again, these conversations don't 3



### necessarily meet the rigorous scientific review 4



### that the ATS believes is there out in the 5



### literature, but they are indications that climate 6



### change is real and starting to impact fol ks. 7



### I know as a seasonal aller. sufferer, I 8



### have also seen what may be the impacts of global 9



### climate change. 10



### The ATC does believe that it is timely 11



### for EPA to move forward with this rule. We will 12



### be submitting more full comments by the June 24th 13



### deadlin e but believe this is the first in what we 14



### hope is a series of steps that EPA takes to 15



### reduce climate emissions and to protect both the 16



### global health but also the human health, because 17



### we believe there are very real connections 18



### between global climate chang e and human health. 19



### Thank you very much for your time. I'd 20



### be happy to answer any questions. 21



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for your 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### testimony. We will wait to raise questions until 1



### both of you speak. 2



### Our next speaker is Mike Sandler. 3



### MR. SANDLER: Thank you . My name is Mike 4



### Sandler. I'm here speaking as an individual, 5



### although I've been affiliated with various 6



### organizations that work on climate change and 7



### climate protection over the past 10 years. 8



### Most recently, I was program manager at 9



### the Sonoma County Regional Climate Protection 10



### Authority, which was an agency linked to the 11



### Sonoma County Transportation Authority, set up to 12



### assist the local governments in Sonoma County, 13



### California, about an hour north of San Francisco, 14



### in achieving their local greenhouse gas reduction 15



### goals. 16



### Previously to that, I worked for a 17



### community

- based organization called the Climate 18



### Protection Campaign, and I also was an outreach 19



### director for the California Interfaith Power and 20



### Light organization, which works with the faith 21



### communi ty and congregations in reducing their 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### greenhouse gas emissions and advocating for 1



### faith

- based approaches to stewardship of 2



### creation. 3



### So, on behalf of

-- well, I can't really 4



### speak on behalf of those agencies, but I know 5



### there are many individuals from th ose groups that 6



### would like to also provide testimony, and so, 7



### hopefully, next time EPA could host a hearing in 8



### California as well. 9



### But, in the meantime, I am now living in 10



### Washington, D.C. I was able to attend today, and 11



### so I'll just go through some of m y thoughts on 12



### the standard. 13



### First of all, climate change is 14



### happening. It is a threat to life on the planet, 15



### and we need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 16



### Scientists believe, you know, one of the goals is 17



### 80 percent below 1990 levels. We don't exactl y 18



### know what those 1990 levels were, and it was back 19



### when the Soviet Union was still around. So 20



### another way to look at those goals would be 21



### around 350 parts per million, which is what the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### 350.org organization supports. 1



### The United States is the largest per 2



### capita emitter of greenhouse gases, and so one 3



### goal globally would be for a global per capita 4



### equity in greenhouse gas emissions. That can be 5



### achieved through a program called Contraction and 6



### Convergence, or C&C, and domestically, a version 7



### of Contractio n and Convergence could be a cap and 8



### dividend model or a carbon share model. 9



### I have a Web site, carbonshare.org, that 10



### talks about how equal per capita greenhouse gas 11



### emissions can be a basis for valuing the shared 12



### commons of the sky, and there's a book, " Who Owns 13



### the Sky?" which talks more about that. 14



### But in the meantime, the EPA is doing its 15



### job by limiting the harm to the global sink in 16



### the atmosphere. 17



### Regarding local action, no matter how 18



### visionary local governments or individual 19



### congregations are, th ey won't be able to address 20



### climate change unless we are able to take on 21



### coal

- fired power plants across the country. That 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### can't be done effectively in a broad scale at the 1



### State or local level. It needs to happen at the 2



### Federal level. 3



### And given the grid lock in Congress today, 4



### Americans will rely on the U.S. EPA to move that 5



### forward using the authority under the Clean Air 6



### Act. 7



### Personally, I'll be eagerly awaiting a 8



### performance standard for existing power plants as 9



### the next step, and I hope that that stan dard 10



### could result in shutting down conventional coal

11



### fired power plants. 12



### This morning in the other room, I heard a 13



### gentleman speak who would fall into the category 14



### of climate deniers or people that don't believe 15



### climate change is actually happening. I'd like 16



### to say a few words about some of those comments 17



### that I heard. 18



### I feel that they are manipulating 19



### scientific facts. It feels very desperate for 20



### them to try to save their industry. That is 21



### really endangering the planet, and, basically, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### they're wrong o n the facts, but, unfortunately, 1



### for the planet, they are very influential. But 2



### we don't really have time to allow them to 3



### distract us from the important work we are doing. 4



### Regarding some details on the proposed 5



### standard, I would support a standard of le ss than 6



### a thousand pounds CO 2 

### per megawatt hour. You had 7



### recommended in the range of perhaps 950. I would 8



### also be supportive of 850. 9



### In terms of the 30

- year averaging, I do 10



### have some concerns about that. I believe the 11



### power plants should be able to sta rt at less than 12



### a thousand pounds per day measured on a daily 13



### basis and be able to achieve that throughout 14



### their operations. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Mr. Sandler, your time has 16



### expired. 17



### MR. SANDLER: Okay, thank you. 18



### MR. HARVEY: You can wrap up. 19



### MR. SANDLER: All right. So I think 20



### that's all I have to say. Thank you for allowing 21



### me to speak today. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Great. Well, thank you both 1



### for sharing your testimony with us. We 2



### appreciate your taking the time to do that. 3



### We are sort of on abeyance, on hold, 4



### un til we have more names to

-- 5



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: Gentlemen, enjoy 6



### the rest of your day. 7



### MR. SANDLER: Thank you. 8



### MR. HARVEY: Myra Blake, please join us. 9



### So if you'll just introduce yourself again, and 10



### then we'll get started. 11



### MS. BLAKE: Good after noon. My name is 12



### Myra Blake. That's M

- Y

- R

- A, B

- L

- A

- K

- E. I'm an 13



### attorney for the Southern Environmental Law 14



### Center, here representing the Fall

- line Alliance 15



### for a Clean Environment, the Ogeechee 16



### Riverkeeper, and the Southern Alliance for Clean 17



### Energy. 18



### I 'd like to start off by saying as a 19



### general matter, we applaud EPA's efforts to 20



### regulate greenhouse gas emissions from entities 21



### like coal

- fired power plants. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### My comments today, however, focus on 1



### EPA's proposal to create a category of 2



### transitional sources that would be exempt from 3



### the greenhouse gas rule if they commence 4



### construction within 12 months of publication of 5



### the proposal in the Federal Register. 6



### While we have concerns about the legality 7



### of the transitional source category itself, I 8



### will limit my comments today to explaining how 9



### and why one particular source, Plant Washington, 10



### does not and should not fall into the exemption. 11



### Plant Washington is a proposed 850

- 12



### megawatt coal

- fired power plant. It would be 13



### located in Washington County, Georgia, and it is 14



### being developed by an entity called 15



### POWER4Georgians, or P4G. 16



### There are three main reasons that the 17



### facility should not be exempted from the 18



### greenhouse gas rule. First, it does not meet the 19



### definition of a transitional source, and, second, 20



### it doesn' t even fit the rationale for exempting 21



### transitional sources. Finally, the 12

- month 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### construction deadline does not ensure that 1



### transitional sources have significant costs to 2



### date and only encourage as unnecessary facilities 3



### that have not even been fully co nceived yet to be 4



### rushed into construction, such as Plant 5



### Washington. 6



### The proposed rule defines transitional 7



### sources and sources that have a complete permit 8



### that meets the requirements of the PSC program 9



### prior to April 13th, 2012. Plant Washington does 10



### n ot meet this definition. 11



### EPA listed Plant Washington as a 12



### potential transitional source in the proposed 13



### rule, because it did not have complete 14



### information on the status of Plant Washington's 15



### permit, but EPA has since acknowledged, and it 16



### has become clear, that Plant Washington did not 17



### have a complete permit by the April 13th 18



### deadline. 19



### EPA recognized this in a recent briefing 20



### before the Court of Appeals of the D.C. Circuit, 21



### and it rejected POWER4Georgians' contention that 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Plant Washington did, in fact, hav e a complete 1



### permit by that date. 2



### Plant Washington's air permit is 3



### currently under going amendments, because 4



### previous version of the permit did not comply 5



### with the Clean Air Act, and in short, P4G did not 6



### have authorization to build or construct Plant 7



### Was hington by the April 13th deadline. 8



### Second, Plant Washington does not fit 9



### EPA's rationale for exempting transitional 10



### sources, because it was not a fully developed 11



### facility that was poised to commence construction 12



### by the deadline. POWER4Georgians has not made 13



### significant investments in Plant Washington, and 14



### it has not made significant advances in the 15



### design of Plant Washington. Many elements of 16



### Plant Washington remain to be determined, 17



### including the design of its boiler and many of 18



### its emission control de vices, and although 19



### POWER4Georgians claims that it has spent 30 20



### million on Plant Washington so far, it has not 21



### provided, as far as we know, any verification of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### this amount. 1



### There is no indication that P4G has 2



### contracted for any supporting services, such a s 3



### the sale of electricity, and it does not even 4



### appear that P4G has purchased any land in which 5



### to site Plant Washington. 6



### And even if P4G has spent what it claims, 7



### this is less than 1.5 percent of the total 8



### projected project cost of 2.1 billion. 9



### In addit ion, the majority of Plant 10



### Washington's funders have pulled out at this 11



### point, and P4G has not been able to attract new 12



### funders, because it has not been able to show the 13



### need for Plant Washington or that it would be 14



### competitive with other existing energy s ources. 15



### And, moreover, P4G has stated that it itself has 16



### never planned to build or operate Plant 17



### Washington, despite contrary statements 18



### previously. In sum, P4G was nowhere ready to 19



### construct Plant Washington by the deadline. 20



### Finally, the requirement to commence 21



### construction within 12 months only encourages 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### half

- baked and unnecessary facilities to be 1



### rushed into construction. In the past, sources 2



### have gained the definition of commencing 3



### construction by taking minor actions, such as 4



### pouring foundations, and this, therefore, does 5



### not ensure that only facilities that had 6



### significant stranded costs will be exempted from 7



### the rule. 8



### If Plant Washington is classified as a 9



### transitional source in the final rule, this would 10



### create a perverse incentive for the faci lity to 11



### be hastily constructed. 12



### And, most importantly, all of this 13



### matters because Plant Washington will be a 14



### significant emitter of carbon dioxide emissions, 15



### and to put it in perspective, it will submit more 16



### CO 2 

### than about half the countries in the world 17



### individually. This would undermine President 18



### Obama's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions 19



### by 17 percent of 2005 levels by 2020. 20



### In conclusion, for all these reasons, 21



### Plant Washington should not be accepted. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much, Ms. 1



### Bl ake. Your timing is perfect. 2



### MS. BLAKE: Thank you. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Two seconds. 4



### Questions? 5



### [No response.] 6



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Thank you very much 7



### for your testimony. 8



### MS. BLAKE: Thank you. Thank you. 9



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. So we're on hold. 10



### [Pause.] 11



### MR. HARVEY: All right. So we're going 12



### to go back on the record and resume. 13



### Our next two speakers

-- and I apologize 14



### in advance for mispronouncing your name

-- Dawud 15



### Ummah and Rita Kantarowski. 16



### Okay. So if both of you could join us at 17



### the table up fron t. Mr. Ummah, I'd like you to 18



### go first, and if you could pronounce your name 19



### correctly and also spell it. I'd ask both of 20



### you. That will help our reporter to be accurate. 21



### So whenever you're ready. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. UMMAH: Actually, the name is Dawud 1



### Ummah. 2



### MR. HA RVEY: Okay. 3



### MR. UMMAH: Dawud is spelled D

- A

- W

- U

- D, 4



### Ummah, U

- M

- M

- A

- H. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Great. 6



### MR. UMMAH: Well, good afternoon, 7



### gentlemen. My name is Dawud Ummah. I'm here 8



### from the great State of Maine, and I'm a proud 9



### member of the NAACP Portland Branch . I served 10 10



### years in the U.S. Air Force from 1981 to 1991 11



### with 8 months being served in the Persian Gulf 12



### War. Once I got out of the military, I had made 13



### a decision that I was going to earn my living 14



### with less destruction to the planet as well as 15



### sharin g resources with offerings of neighbors. I 16



### wanted to do this with less pollution to the air, 17



### water, the environment. So, as a result, I just 18



### decided to move up to Maine to become a farmer. 19



### I decided I wanted to do more of an 20



### effort of growing food, good healthy food for our 21



### neighbors and for ourselves, versus killing 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### people that I really didn't know. 1



### I prefer to develop property in a way 2



### where it could be utilized for the benefit of our 3



### community versus destroying property and creating 4



### more pollution in the environment. 5



### So I joined different organizations, the 6



### organization that was doing things that was 7



### similar. I found that the NAACP, the Cumberland 8



### County Extension, Maine's Veterans for Peace, the 9



### Nature Conservancy, the Biodiversity Research 10



### Institu tion, and Education Ecology, these are 11



### some of the organizations that I have been 12



### working with. These organizations work directly 13



### and indirectly on the effects of carbon 14



### pollution, and they are creating jobs now and for 15



### the future. 16



### We know that this is t he start of a 17



### cleanup process, trying to clean up the 18



### industrial carbon pollution, which was basically 19



### started

-- which have basically started this 20



### global warming process. We figure that once we 21



### get this started that it would ignite and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### generate some good thinking in our students and 1



### some of the people that surround us. This way, 2



### it will probably create some jobs for the up and 3



### coming young folks in and around the area of 4



### environmental safety. 5



### We know that car pollution is one of the 6



### things that contribu te to carbon pollution; 7



### however, carbon pollution from coal

- fired power 8



### plants is the largest, largely to blame for the 9



### climate change in our area. 10



### Maine is actually losing its outdoor 11



### heritage. It's known for its outdoors. It's 12



### been known for

-- its ou tdoors has been known as 13



### a vacation land. However, each year, power 14



### plants dump at least 2 billion pounds

-- or 2 15



### billion tons of dangerous carbon pollution in our 16



### air in Portland. 17



### While African Americans, immigrants, 18



### refugees, and people from countries of color 19



### normally find themselves living around these 20



### toxic areas, especially in Portland, they have 21



### what they call these toxic sites, which they 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### build. Because we have immigrants and refugees 1



### coming into that area, they have built more 2



### housing on these p articular properties. So it's 3



### causing what we call a bad and very serious case 4



### of asthma for most of the people. 5



### Maine has the highest rate of asthma in 6



### the country. Approximately 10 percent of the 7



### adults in Maine suffer with asthma compared to 8



### somethin g like 7.8 percent nationwide. 10.7 9



### percent of Maine children has asthma compared to 10



### 8.9 nationwide. 11



### About 16.5 percent of the non

- whites have 12



### asthma that live in Maine right now. About 13



### 128,000 people in the State of Maine are actually 14



### affected, 23,000 of them being children. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Mr. Ummah, your time 16



### expired. If you could just bring it to a close. 17



### MR. UMMAH: Well, basically, what I'm 18



### basically saying is Maine is in this avenue or in 19



### a way in which the pollution is coming up that 20



### way, and it' s causing quite a bit of destruction 21



### there. And what I'm basically asking, if I can, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### is that, you know, being that I just recently 1



### returned out of the military, is there anything 2



### that you guys could see in this process to help 3



### as far as the agriculture pr oduction in Maine? 4



### Because a lot of veterans are coming there, and 5



### they have fallen into homeless situations, but 6



### agriculture is the thing that's going to plow 7



### Maine forward. And we definitely need a lot of 8



### help in that, because some of the efforts that 9



### we've put forward could be enhanced by your help. 10



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. Thank you very 11



### much for sharing that testimony with us. 12



### Our next speaker is Rita Kantarowski. 13



### MS. KANTAROWSKI: Good work. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. If you could spell 15



### your last name? 16



### MS. KANTAROWSKI: Sure. My first name is 17



### Rita, R

- I

- T

- A. My last name is Kantarowski, K

- A

18



### N

- T

- A

- R

- O

- W

- S

- K

- I. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 20



### MS. KANTAROWSKI: I am also a member of 21



### the NAACP in Boston, Massachusetts. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I live

-- I'm from Jamaica Plain, which 1



### i s a neighborhood in the City of Boston. I'm 2



### lucky enough to live near the Emerald Necklace, a 3



### series of parks, public parks and spaces that was 4



### developed by Frederick Law Olmsted and originally 5



### was a streetcar suburb of the inner city. 6



### I'm not a scientis t. I'm a community 7



### person. My thoughts are not in many statistics 8



### but are more conceptual in things that I think 9



### about that don't make sense. 10



### So I live in this green space, and yet in 11



### my neighborhood, there are pretty dramatically 12



### increased rates of ast hma as well as other 13



### respiratory diseases, particularly in children as 14



### well as adults. And I have to ask myself why. I 15



### thought living in a space where there was a lot 16



### of green space would be healthy and levels of 17



### pollution would be reduced. 18



### We have trad itional pollutants, which 19



### create the smog or air pollution that I 20



### understand is made worse by CO 2 

### emissions. 21



### I think about this in similar terms of 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### taking certain medicines and drinking alcohol. 1



### It potentiates the strength of the drug, and 2



### that's how I c onceptualize how CO 2 

### works with

-- 3



### to create even badder air. 4



### And I have a lot of trouble understanding 5



### how those in power, those that are the heads of 6



### power companies and plants and coal

- fired plants 7



### and industry, how they

-- why they resist, you 8



### know, w here is the self preservation, why they 9



### resist controls and measures on air. I just 10



### don't understand it. Where is the self

11



### preservation in the world that they and we all 12



### are leaving our legacy to our children and future 13



### generations? I don't understand i t. 14



### Does profit really outweigh a healthy 15



### life? Is it possible that polluters site 16



### facilities in areas where there are more 17



### populations of color? It seems to be so in terms 18



### of the studies that I have seen. Is this 19



### targeted to people who lack, perhaps, t he power 20



### to be able to try to prevent this? 21



### I think the statistics are incredible to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### look at facing that race is a determinant factor 1



### in areas of high air pollution in communities of 2



### color. We need environmental justice. 3



### It reminds me of something I was reading 4



### on the Internet about the development of using 5



### antisepsis, antisepsis the germ theory in the 6



### early 1800s, which was the simple act of doctors 7



### washing their hands between patients or between 8



### one procedure to another. 9



### At that time, doctors everywhe re were 10



### reluctant to adopt it, partly because of the 11



### denial that antisepsis eliminated, the horror at 12



### the implication that they themselves were the 13



### cause of many preventable deaths, and I think 14



### it's so true when we look at our environment. 15



### All this denial and death because they 16



### could not admit that they should just simply wash 17



### their hands between patients and procedures. 18



### Doctors then knew the validation of the germ 19



### theory, but most did not change for many years. 20



### Is it the same today related to CO 2 

### and 21



### ot her pollutants? We have the validation of the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### problems, but yet so many refuse to believe or 1



### act. 2



### I've spent my professional life working 3



### with refugees, people that were displaced by 4



### political persecution and often associated with 5



### catastrophic weather. It forced them to run for 6



### their lives, and they were originally, initially 7



### resettled in the United States. And what I saw 8



### was that the rule of law is easily usurped by 9



### catastrophic weather. 10



### I helped some of the hundreds of 11



### thousands of refugees that fled from the Horn of 12



### Africa because of political persecution and 13



### drought. Now more than 20 years, we know that 14



### virtually there's no government in Somalia. 15



### MR. HARVEY: I have to tell you, your 16



### time has expired. 17



### MS. KANTAROWSKI: I am just about 18



### finished. 19



### Those with discretionary income can 20



### choose where they live to breathe cleaner air, 21



### but we can't escape, no matter where we move, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### catastrophic weather, and I find it hard to 1



### believe that people who eschew clean air do so at 2



### their own risk. I urge you to he lp all of us to 3



### take our heads out of the sand, to understand and 4



### recognize the dangers of greenhouse gases for 5



### current and future generations. 6



### Thank you so much. 7



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for coming down 8



### from Maine and Massachusetts to share your 9



### testimony with us. 10



### MS. KANTAROWSKI: You heard from New 11



### England. 12



### MR. HARVEY: Next, Sheila Brown and 13



### Elbridge James. 14



### MR. JAMES: Do you need two? 15



### MR. HARVEY: I'm sorry? 16



### MR. JAMES: If I have a written 17



### statement, do you

-- 18



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah. We'll certainly take 19



### it, and we'll put it in the docket. You can give 20



### it to us before or afterwards, whichever you 21



### prefer. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Great. So let's start with Ms. Brown. 1



### If you could just introduce yourself and your 2



### affiliation, and then we'll start the timer. 3



### MS. BROWN: We ll, greetings to each of 4



### you. Thank you so much for having me here to 5



### speak on behalf on behalf of the Georgia State 6



### Conference NAACP where I serve on the Executive 7



### Committee, and as an individual citizen concerned 8



### about environmental issues, I have prepa red a 9



### statement, because I get long

- winded, so that I'm 10



### going to prepare and stay on my time portion. 11



### What I'd like to share is that I'm Sheila 12



### Brown, again, and I live in Rockdale County, 13



### Georgia. Over the course of the last 10 years, 14



### I've lived in thre e States and the District of 15



### Columbia. During that time, I've had the 16



### privilege of studying, working, and developing 17



### professionally in communities largely populated 18



### by African Americans and Latinos. 19



### I'll never forget the first day of my one 20



### year at Texas Southern University, Thurgood 21



### Marshall School of Law, notably a Historically 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Black College. It was a sunny day in August of 1



### 2006 as I walked from my dorm apartment to the 2



### main campus. Bright and early on that Monday 3



### morning, everything seemed to be goin g perfectly 4



### until suddenly an invisible cloud of toxins 5



### descended on the area and filled my lungs with 6



### the most putrid and all

- invasive stench from 7



### something out of nowhere. I held my breath. I 8



### covered my nose, and I walked as fast as I could, 9



### but I just couldn't seem to escape that smell. 10



### What really bothered me, though, is that 11



### no one else could tell me where it was coming 12



### from, and no one else seemed to be as equally 13



### offended as I was. That unfortunate even 14



### happened many times over the course of my 15



### s tudies. 16



### Now I live in Georgia, but, recently, I 17



### had a very similar experience while shopping at a 18



### popular retailer in the area. As my son and I 19



### headed to the front of the store to pay for our 20



### items, we were distracted by one of the most 21



### grotesque and hor rible odors we've ever smelled. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### The smell was so unbearable that I stopped a 1



### store manager, and I asked him where is it coming 2



### from and what was he going to do about it. 3



### The store manager tried to calmly 4



### reassure me that everything was okay, and that 5



### fro m time to time, that smell came into the store 6



### due to a nearby power plant. That, despite the 7



### heavy stench, everyone continued shopping and 8



### working like nothing happened. This reminded me 9



### of my experience in law school in Houston and 10



### made me question why this type of occurrence kept 11



### happening in areas where I frequented, I lived

-- 12



### and where I lived. Why didn't anyone else seem 13



### equally offended by the stench, and was there an 14



### environmental explanation behind the smell events 15



### in Houston and on Conyers, Ge orgia, or was this 16



### just a coincidence? 17



### My inquiry led me to the work of a Dr. 18



### Robert Bullard, who is an expert in environmental 19



### issues. Dr. Bullard has a body of work that 20



### examines the environmental factors affecting 21



### African Americans and other minority communities. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### In 1979, Dr. Bullard noticed that all the 1



### city dumps in Houston were located in and around 2



### neighborhoods inhabited primarily by African 3



### Americans, despite the fact that this group only 4



### made up 25 percent of Houston's total population. 5



### Althou gh that was decades ago, there's still 6



### evidence today of what Dr. Bullard coined 7



### "environmental racism." He explains that on 8



### average, African Americans emit about 20 percent 9



### of greenhouse gases, yet 68 percent of African 10



### Americans live within the 30 miles of coal

- fired 11



### power plants. In comparison, only 56 percent of 12



### whites and 39 percent of Latinos live in such 13



### proximity to these coal

- fired plants. 14



### The State of Georgia in particular has a 15



### very pronounced history of racial inequality and 16



### environmental inj ustice towards blacks. In 2009, 17



### African Americans made up 30.2 percent of 18



### Georgia's population. However, two of the three 19



### proposed coal

- fired power plants that sought 20



### permits in Georgia south locations in 21



### predominantly African

- American counties. In 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### fact , all three of the proposed coal

- fired power 1



### plants located in Georgia cities were located in 2



### Georgia cities with African

- American populations 3



### ranging from nearly 50 to 60 percent. 4



### African

- American and poorer communities 5



### are also being targeted by nuclear energy 6



### companies. In fact, the Shell Bluff community, 7



### which is in Burke County, Georgia, has an 8



### African

- American population of 51 percent and is 9



### the proposed site for a new nuclear power plant 10



### that's expected to produce a thousand megawatts. 11



### Currently, there's a heated battle 12



### ensuing right in Lithonia, Georgia, where I 13



### worship. It's over a gasification plant. 14



### Lithonia consists of 80

- percent African 15



### Americans. The board of commissioners for the 16



### DeKalb County voted to allow gasification, 17



### despite the ang ry protest of DeKalb County 18



### residents and community activist, including the 19



### DeKalb County NAACP, Operation LEAD, and Citizens 20



### for a Healthy and Safe Environment, which grew 21



### out of this movement to protest the gasification 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### plant. 1



### It also consists of local churches and 2



### other civic groups. These groups expressed grave 3



### concerns about the potential exposure of toxic 4



### emissions from facilities, truck traffic, and 5



### diesel emissions. DeKalb County's decision, 6



### however, to issue a special land permit is not 7



### unchalle nged. These groups have banned together 8



### to sue the county and seek injunction on the 9



### gasification plant's construction. 10



### I hope African Americans

-- 11



### MR. HARVEY: Ms. Brown, your time has 12



### expired, so if you could

-- 13



### MS. BROWN: Okay, sure. 14



### I hope Africa n Americans and other 15



### disadvantaged communities take note of what's 16



### happening and draw strength from the activism 17



### taking place in DeKalb County, and I also urge 18



### the EPA to continue to eradicate environmental 19



### racism and injustice and study the impact that 20



### i t's had in the past and currently has on African 21



### American, Hispanic, and other disadvantaged 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### communities. 1



### Thank you so much for your time. 2



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 3



### Okay. Our next speaker is Elbridge 4



### James. 5



### MS. JAMES: Should I say? 6



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah. You can say. It's 7



### just less disruptive if both of you stay. 8



### MS. JAMES: I won't be so long. 9



### I'm Elbridge James. I'm here on behalf 10



### of the Maryland State NAACP. I am here 11



### representing our thousand members and families 12



### who support the standards being s et by the EPA 13



### right at this time. 14



### I speak only from one who would benefit 15



### the increased protection of the clean air, but 16



### for the millions of Marylanders, including the 17



### elderly and the infirmed who every day experience 18



### a quality of life that is either dimi nished or 19



### improved by the result of the forces that create 20



### the air that we breathe. 21



### I had an opportunity to have the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### experiences of those who have suffered, you know, 1



### who have suffered bad, from bad, ill health and 2



### things of this nature because of bad air

, 3



### although I did suffer the pain of watching my 4



### mother who had lung problems and eventually died 5



### from not having clean air standards at her 6



### disposal. 7



### We know that pollution and toxins such as 8



### mercury, arson, led, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen 9



### oxide are kil ling us. They create a haze and an 10



### ozone level that affects primarily all 11



### Marylanders but have concentrations where there 12



### are, in fact, more African Americans, Latino, and 13



### the poor. 14



### In fact, I'm here today not to speak on 15



### just for African Americans but t he poor, the 16



### disadvantaged, whether they're white, Asian, 17



### Native American, or whomever. They have less 18



### voice. They have less ability to talk to you 19



### with regard to needing the help. 20



### I'm also here as a lobbyist for the State 21



### of Maryland NAACP, whose work with our 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### legislature to in fact develop clean air 1



### standards and health standards that benefit our 2



### community. We have passed legislation that are 3



### giving more greater health care, but as we pass 4



### that legislation, we talk to the professionals. 5



### We notice tha t a lot of the illness and the 6



### trauma is coming from folks that have lung 7



### problems and have health

- related problems that 8



### are either caused by or aggravated by the ability 9



### to breathe or live in areas that have clean air. 10



### I don't want to see a community, I don't 11



### want to see a country that's divided by those of 12



### us who live in and around nuclear power plants, 13



### coal power plants, or other plants that burn 14



### sulfur fumes that create health problems in our 15



### communities. 16



### I used to reside in Philadelphia, and if 17



### you k now about Philadelphia, it is one of the 18



### dirtiest places on the face of this earth, in the 19



### United States at least, and some of that problem 20



### stems from the fact that the toxic and the odors 21



### and the emissions that come out of our cars and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### power plants. 1



### I mo ved away, have felt better, have 2



### lived longer. I'm a senior citizen, so I know 3



### the benefit of having clean air, and I'm saying 4



### the rest of this country knows that. 5



### In my report, which I am submitting to 6



### you, there was the Maryland Clean Air Act, and 7



### that Maryland Clean Air Act, which we helped pass 8



### with the governor and the legislature, sought to 9



### improve the quality of air in Maryland. But one 10



### of the results of the Clean Air Act and Clean Air 11



### Report, the Clean Air Progress Report in 12



### Maryland, is the fact that we're still suffering 13



### from what is happening outside of our State. We 14



### find that, in fact, Maryland just cannot do it by 15



### itself. It has to have Federal Government 16



### through EPA standards that raise the level of 17



### quality of air that all our citizens in fact 18



### enjoy. 19



### This is not new. We have looked upon the 20



### Federal Government to work with businesses and 21



### industry to find a partnership that can establish 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### regulations that benefit all our citizens, but, 1



### in fact, when the industry either drags its feet 2



### or is i ncapable of providing those standards, we 3



### look as citizens to the Federal Government to 4



### protect our interests. 5



### You did it when we eliminated lead gas 6



### out of our cars. You've done it when, in fact, 7



### we said that children should not be in the 8



### workplace. Y ou've done it when, in fact, we 9



### removed asbestos from our homes and our 10



### workplace, and you're doing it now when we're 11



### saying the fact is that all citizens should have 12



### health care coverage the benefits and protects 13



### and gives a quality of life. We say this needs 14



### to continue. 15



### As far as the industry, we look at the 16



### industry as being profitable and having the 17



### capacity, maybe not the will but the capacity to 18



### meet those standards. For years, they have said 19



### that the current clean air standards were 20



### bankrupt, and , well, they're doing quite well, 21



### and they can do quite well. And I ask the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### industry, who are you in business for? You're 1



### providing a service and a product to the 2



### consumer, and you're killing the consumer on the 3



### long run. If you do not provide us with t he 4



### ability to live and to work and to be able to pay 5



### for those products, how, in fact, are you serving 6



### your shareholders and others? 7



### We said that to the auto industry. 8



### They've improved mileage. We've said to the food 9



### and agriculture industry, and they h ave improved 10



### the quality of the food that we consume. We say 11



### clean air, like clean water, go hand in hand, and 12



### we need these standards improved. 13



### Will there be some difficulties? Yes. 14



### But we expect industry and EPA to work together 15



### to make this happen. The NAACP supports your 16



### efforts and ask you that you continue to strive 17



### for us, your consumer, your constituency, the 18



### citizens, the residents of the State of Maryland 19



### and the United States. 20



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much, both of 21



### you, for your thoughtf ul statements. We 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### appreciate your time. 1



### MS. BROWN: Thank you. 2



### MR. HARVEY: We are going to go off the 3



### record. We don't have any current folks waiting. 4



### [Recess taken from 1:50 to 1:57 p.m.] 5



### MR. HARVEY: All right. We are going to 6



### get started. We ar e going to resume our hearing 7



### today. 8



### Our next speakers are Sarah Saylor and 9



### Roger Diedrich. If you could come up to the 10



### table, both of you. I'll ask Ms. Saylor to speak 11



### first. I'd like both of you to wait there until 12



### the other is finished. Then if we have 13



### questions, we'll pose them to you, and then 14



### you'll both leave at the same time. So please be 15



### seated. 16



### If you could start just by saying your 17



### name, spelling your last name in particular, and 18



### if you're affiliated with a group, that as well, 19



### and we'll s tart the timer. You'll have 5 20



### minutes. 21



### MS. SAYLOR: I am Sarah Saylor. The last 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### name is S as in Sam, A

- Y

- L

- O

- R, and I'm 1



### affiliated with Earthjustice. 2



### I come today not only on behalf of 3



### Earthjustice but also to share the personal 4



### remarks of some of our supporters as well as my 5



### own comments. 6



### From Wasilla to Wauwatosa to West 7



### Virginia and Washington, the folks on our roles 8



### support not only this standard, but they support 9



### EPA taking the next step as well. 10



### While the agency will collect over a 11



### million like

- minded comments, the sheer 12



### repetition of these words, both written and 13



### spoken, are a clear call for progress. 14



### Rachel Bruce of Gainesville, Florida, 15



### wrote, "Thank you for using the Clean Air Act as 16



### it was intended." She was not a plant. We echo 17



### Rachel, t hough, with our congratulations to the 18



### agency for taking a critical step toward 19



### compliance with the Clean Air Act and its duty 20



### recognized by the Supreme Court to confront the 21



### challenges presented by our conclusion and the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### climate destruction that it's caus ing. 1



### The impacts of rising temperatures on air 2



### quality cannot be denied. They are well 3



### documented, and scientists and public health 4



### official have spoken and continue to speak to 5



### this, as do our supporters. 6



### A.T. Young in Langley, Washington, 7



### writes, "The health of generations to come will 8



### benefit by making good decisions about air 9



### quality now." 10



### And Dottie Thomas in Wheeling, West 11



### Virginia, writes, "As a resident of the Upper 12



### Ohio Valley, one of the worst pollution areas in 13



### the country, and as an asthma s ufferer, I 14



### strongly support the EPA moving forward. 15



### I personally was in middle school when I 16



### first learned about the overabundance of carbon 17



### in our atmosphere. I thought for certain our 18



### nation's leaders were going to immediately tackle 19



### the problem, becau se that's what national leaders 20



### -- and that's the sort of thing that national 21



### leaders do. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### In my college years, I learned that our 1



### nation had failed to join other leading nations 2



### of the world in ratifying the Kyoto Protocol. 3



### When I moved to D.C. in 2001, the environmental 4



### issue of greatest concern here in Washington was 5



### whether to drill for oil in the wildlife refuge 6



### in the Arctic. 7



### Once Congress finally turns its attention 8



### to legislation to carbon pollution, the debate 9



### seemed to evolve quickly into a conv ersation 10



### about which part of the Clean Air Act we were 11



### going to sacrifice in the name of cleaner air. 12



### It's been 20 years. This former eighth 13



### grader could not be more frustrated with the lack 14



### of national leadership on this issue. 15



### Then I saw this from our supporter, 16



### Jennifer Horn. She's in Chesterfield, Virginia. 17



### She writes, "I work as a middle school science 18



### educator in rural Central Virginia. I am 19



### extremely concerned about climate change." She 20



### continues, "I believe it's terrible that the USA 21



### is so ne gligent regarding regulating carbon 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### emissions. I know there is tremendous amount of 1



### pressure from Big Coal/Big Oil, and you are about 2



### all we have to try to make the situation better." 3



### Enthusiasm for your progress here at EPA 4



### on setting standards for the next generation of 5



### coal

- fired power plants, indeed fossil fuel

- fired 6



### priority

- setting, is as great as the anticipation 7



### of controls on today's polluters. 8



### Claire Rintelman in Wauwatosa, 9



### Washington, writes

-- or sorry. That's in 10



### Wisconsin. She writes, "We' re seeing the effects 11



### of global warming. We need to move forward today 12



### with stronger standards." 13



### Today, we are encouraged by EPA's express 14



### commitment to turn next to the existing fleet of 15



### power plants. There is no question that we have 16



### to reduce carbon emissions from these plants in 17



### the very near term if we want to fend off the 18



### most pressing threats posed by climate change. 19



### We urge you to take this step expeditiously as 20



### the Clean Air Act requires. 21



### I'd like to thank the Environmental 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Protection Agency a nd the representatives here 1



### with us today for the opportunity to comment and 2



### for this proposal, which is an extremely welcome 3



### step toward reducing carbon pollution from new 4



### fossil fuel electric

- generating units. Whatever 5



### further encouragement you need to finalize, if 6



### not strengthen the current proposal, I hope my 7



### comments will provide it. 8



### Thank you. 9



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 10



### The next speaker is Roger Diedrich. I'm 11



### not sure I'm pronouncing your last name right. 12



### MR. DIEDRICH: "Diedrich." Yeah. 13



### MR. HARV EY: If you could spell your last 14



### name, please? And also, speak into the 15



### microphone, if you could, too. 16



### MR. DIEDRICH: My name is Roger Diedrich. 17



### That's D

- I

- E

- D

- R

- I

- C

- H. I am a retired analyst, 18



### and I live in Virginia. 19



### I support the carbon pollution st andards, 20



### because I accept as reality the warming of the 21



### climate to be the greatest threat ever to our 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### environment. I also know that there has been 1



### enormous resistance to taking action, but EPA 2



### clearly has the science. Those who oppose your 3



### efforts will f ind themselves on the wrong side of 4



### history very soon. 5



### You should proceed with enacting carbon 6



### pollution standards, because it's inevitable, and 7



### it will remove uncertainty that the utilities 8



### businesses face and allow them to plan for a 9



### better future and c reate jobs in a new 10



### environment. 11



### In my State of Virginia, we wind up with 12



### less coal

- burn for electricity, but our utilities 13



### have been very resistant to making the necessary 14



### changes. A future with offshore wind farms and 15



### solar panels in every big box stor e would be very 16



### welcome. There's no reason to think that would 17



### be difficult. 18



### The Washington, D.C., area is an area for 19



### fine particulates and from ozone. So this new 20



### standard will have benefits in that regard also. 21



### If I move it even further evidence of the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### warming problem, yesterday my county supervisor 1



### gave us information on the heightened threat for 2



### mosquitoes and ticks brought on by the warm 3



### winter last year, so another thing to be 4



### concerned about. So we don't need these kinds of 5



### things. 6



### I'll be 70 tomorrow. So, in another 10 7



### years or so, I'll be in one of the threatened 8



### groups from these impacts as a senior citizen. 9



### Please proceed with all due haste and enact 10



### carbon standards. 11



### Thank you. 12



### MR. HARVEY: We wish you a Happy Birthday 13



### a day in advance

. 14



### Thank you for your testimony, both of 15



### you. Thank you for joining us. 16



### Our next speakers are Arretta Keefer and 17



### Keisha Pendleton, and then on deck are Whitney 18



### Byrd and Joe Elcox. 19



### And your name is? 20



### MS. KEEFER: Arretta Keefer. 21



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Is K eisha Pendleton 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### here? 1



### MS. KEEFER: First of all, I want to 2



### thank you for the

-- 3



### MR. HARVEY: Hold on one second. Let's 4



### just let Ms. Pendleton sit down. You can sit 5



### wherever you like. 6



### Okay. 7



### MS. KEEFER: I'm Arretta Keefer. 8



### I'd like to begin with this statement

-- 9



### actually a question. Did you know that the first 10



### air pollution regulations were passed in England 11



### to reduce the emissions from burning coal? And 12



### this was done in 1273 A.D. Did you know that? 13



### 1273 A.D. 14



### In 1300 A.D., King Edward II passed down 15



### the following decree: Whosoever shall be found 16



### guilty of burning coal shall suffer the loss of 17



### his head. A little drastic, but it was very 18



### effective. 19



### Well, I'm here because I'm not a 20



### scientist. I'm not in the medial profession. 21



### I'm not involved i n the environment per se as a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### professional, but I have long since supported the 1



### balance of nature, and I understand its 2



### importance. However, I also understand that 3



### people are not motivated by number crunching or 4



### statistics unless they are involved physica lly 5



### themselves or someone in their family is impacted 6



### by a statistic as in cancer. My mother died of 7



### emphysema. 8



### The bottom line is unless they are 9



### involved, they tend to ignore the need. I have a 10



### suggestion, and I'd like to propose a new 11



### equation. E pl us P plus A equals C, and in this 12



### instance, the EPA does not represent the 13



### environmental protection, but it does. However, 14



### this equation is education plus participation 15



### plus action equals change. 16



### I know that there are many people who may 17



### not remember a 4 0

- year

- old commercial PSA that 18



### was the catalyst brought on by the Cleaning of 19



### America Campaign in 1970s, and if you are not 20



### familiar with it, go online and check the Crying 21



### Indian commercial, and you'll be able to see it 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### in its entirety. 1



### That message was so powerful that for 20 2



### years or more, people were motivated to clean up 3



### the waterways and their communities, because they 4



### saw that once we had a beautiful land and through 5



### neglect and indifference had changed to impact on 6



### the lives of everyone. Well, now we're faced 7



### with an international and global problem that's 8



### not going away, and we need to employ a new kind 9



### of PSA. 10



### My background is in advertising expertise 11



### in marketing and networking and in show business. 12



### What I am proposing

-- and I would put it in an 13



### outline and leave it with you at some later date, 14



### but my goal is to get the interest of Kevin 15



### Costner, Leonardo DiCaprio, Steven Spielberg, and 16



### -- what's his name?

-- James Cameron. 17



### People don't know that James Cameron did 18



### author and created "Avatar"

-- offered in each of 19



### his DVDs a certificate that when purchased, that 20



### person could fill out and return to Cameron's 21



### organization, and in their name, five trees were 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### planted in the Amazon and blighted areas 1



### throughout our world. That's a major 2



### participati on. 3



### Cosner has spent $20 million of his own 4



### money in behalf of clean water and purification 5



### systems for blightened communities all over the 6



### world, specifically Africa. 7



### The other two men are of equal 8



### importance. They are all beloved. Their 9



### messages are believable and well received, and my 10



### feeling is that if we can get them to create 11



### another PSA as powerful as the old one showing 12



### how it was and the effects of what has happened 13



### with the national natural disasters throughout 14



### our world, but ending on a posit ive note showing 15



### that if together, man, woman, and child in every 16



### country in the world, we work together to create 17



### an action that can truly result in changing our 18



### environment and protecting our world forever. 19



### And that's my goal, and I will do everything I 20



### can to get this rolling, and I think you all 21



### understand if you went to the box office this 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### past weekend and saw the motion picture, "The 1



### Avengers" took in, in 3 months

-- in 3 weeks in 2



### excess of $3 billion. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Ms. Keefer, your time has 4



### expired. Let's wrap up. 5



### MS. KEEFER: It's something to think 6



### about. 7



### MR. HARVEY: Great. Thank you. You can 8



### remain there, and we'll

-- unless you decide 9



### which is easier for you. I know you have a 10



### handful. 11



### MS. PENDLETON: Good afternoon. My name 12



### is Keisha Pe ndleton, K

- E

- I

- S

- H

- A, P

- E

- N

- D

- L

- E

- T

13



### O

- N. I am here in full support of the EPA's 14



### carbon pollution standard. I am the wife of an 15



### asthma sufferer and sister of an asthma sufferer. 16



### Both recount stories, my husband in particular, 17



### of visiting emergency rooms as a child so 18



### frequently that he knew to go to the counter and 19



### give his name and insurance information. 20



### I'm also, like I said, the sister of an 21



### asthma sufferer who as we were younger would hold 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the nebulizer to my brother's face, just watching 1



### him suffer, and it just

-- it really bothers me 2



### that polluters are able to

-- or have been able 3



### to so far get away with the polluting, and 4



### there's no limit on the amount of pollution that 5



### they can emit into the air. 6



### I'm also a recent recipient of a master's 7



### in envir onmental management. I've gained an 8



### enormous amount of information, just background 9



### information, what occurs when pollution enters 10



### our airwaves. It not only affects us here in the 11



### United States, but it also affects the entire 12



### world. So what we're doing here today is not 13



### just a local or national thing. It's a global 14



### thing. 15



### In addition, as a minority, I feel the 16



### sense of responsibility to speak up for our 17



### underserved communities. Urban and underserved 18



### communities do

-- are affected more or to a 19



### greater extent than other populations, and I feel 20



### that we really should consider the entire 21



### population of the United States, including those 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### who aren't able to speak up for themselves, those 1



### who may not even know that there was a hearing 2



### going on for this pollutio n standard today. 3



### As I said, I have two young children. 4



### Here is one of my children. Her name is Ava. 5



### The child is six, and we requested

-- neither of 6



### them have encountered effects of asthma, although 7



### it may produce both because it runs in our 8



### family. 9



### I just want to continue to be able to 10



### protect them, and that's why I'm here speaking 11



### today as a mother to understand that as they grow 12



### up, I won't be able to detect, and there are 13



### certain things that I can't do to protect them, 14



### but I am really speaking her e today. I hope it 15



### will help watch over them as they grow and to 16



### know what kind of planet I am leaving for them. 17



### So I just want to again reiterate my 18



### support for the standard, and I hope that it goes 19



### through. I also understand that the mercury 20



### standard is also under fire. So I want to be 21



### able to just reiterate my support for the mercury 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### standard in addition to this. We need to 1



### basically ramp up what we're able to combat. 2



### It's not just a business thing; it's an issue of 3



### health, which in my opinion is a lso an issue of 4



### what our future will hold for this country in 5



### order to be able to watch over of these people, 6



### because they're here today, and they're always 7



### going to be here. The young people are going to 8



### be here in the future, and we have to be careful 9



### o f what we're leaving for our future generations. 10



### So thank you for allowing me to speak. 11



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for your eloquent 12



### testimony. 13



### Our next speakers are Whitney Byrd and 14



### Joe Elcox. If both of you will come to the 15



### table, please. 16



### We will start with Ms. Byrd, and is it 17



### spelled B

- Y

- R

- D? 18



### MS. BYRD: Yes. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. 20



### MS. BYRD: My name is Whitney Byrd, and I 21



### live in Charlottesville, Virginia. I am speaking 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### today as the coordinator of Wise Energy for 1



### Virginia Coalition, which is a statewide 2



### coalition of environmental groups that seeks to 3



### move Virginia away from the effects of coal and 4



### transition towards a clean and efficient and 5



### sustainable energy picture. 6



### I'm here today to speak in support of 7



### EPA's rule to limit carbon pollution for new 8



### po wer plants. Power plants are the largest 9



### source of carbon pollution that is known to 10



### negatively impact our health, destroy our natural 11



### resources, and contribute to dangerous climate 12



### change. 13



### Virginians are already experiencing the 14



### impacts of climate chang e at home. The costs of 15



### local impacts of climate change is more frequent 16



### flooding across Virginia's coasts. 17



### In a recent PBS special, Norfolk Mayor 18



### Paul Fraim explained that in the past, flooding 19



### in the coastal city was an occasional occurrence, 20



### principal ly caused by large storms and 21



### hurricanes. However, these days, flooding is as 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### frequent in some areas of Norfolk as the change 1



### in tides. Mayor Fraim pointed out that he's not 2



### an environmentalist, and that he has observed the 3



### flooding problem getting worse over time without 4



### a doubt. 5



### He explained that in the coming decades, 6



### parts of the city would likely be abandoned 7



### because of the ever

- approaching seas. Norfolk 8



### holds the world's largest naval base and one of 9



### America's largest ports. To say that this is a 10



### problem for Virginia and for national security is 11



### an understatement. 12



### Climate change poses serious risk to 13



### Virginia's future. Our coasts are second in the 14



### nation in terms of threat from sea level rise, 15



### only surpassed by New Orleans. What is worse, 16



### the N ational Resource Defense Council concluded 17



### that Virginia is among the States least prepared 18



### for negative impacts to our water supply due to 19



### climate change in a report released this spring. 20



### Climate change

- related risk to our water 21



### considered in this report include increased 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### annual precipitation, water supply challenges, 1



### increased flooding, sea level rise, increased 2



### erosion, saltwater intrusion, and impacts to 3



### aquatic and animal species. 4



### There are also many harmful non

- climate 5



### impacts of carbon pollution th at we are grappling 6



### with in Virginia. Carbon pollution from power 7



### plants, particularly coal

- fired power plants, 8



### contribute to smog air pollution that is harmful 9



### to all Virginians, but particularly children, the 10



### elderly diagnosed with respiratory and 11



### cardi ovascular conditions. 12



### Richmond, Virginia's capital city, was 13



### named the Asthma Capital of the U.S. for a second 14



### year in a row by the Asthma and Allergy 15



### Foundation of America. Over 20,000 children 16



### suffer from asthma in Richmond. 17



### Virginia Beach also made t heir top 10, 18



### ranking eighth in the nation. 19



### Across the State, more than half of 20



### Virginia earned a failing rate for air pollution 21



### linked to asthma. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Virginia is still very much a coal State. 1



### We mine for coal in our southwest and burn coal 2



### to produce just l ess than half of our 3



### electricity. While our politicians are 4



### benefitting from coal, receiving generous 5



### campaign donations from Big Coal and signing 6



### bills into law that support the industry, our 7



### people are footing the bill with our health, our 8



### natural herit age, and our hard

- earned dollars. 9



### The environmental and public health 10



### impacts of extracting and burning fossil fuels 11



### can more than double the cost of electricity. 12



### According to a recent study by the 13



### National Academy of Sciences, coal

- fired power 14



### plants in Virginia alone cost Virginians $1.7 15



### billion in costs associated with air pollution in 16



### the last year. 17



### Meanwhile, Virginia continues to bring on 18



### new damaging and costly coal plants. A new coal 19



### plant just completed construction in Wise County, 20



### Virginia, th at would come online this summer. In 21



### addition, what will be Virginia's largest coal 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### plant yet proposed by the Old Dominion Electric 1



### Cooperative was recently granted local zoning 30 2



### miles from the Chesapeake Bay. 3



### In an editorial that ran in the Virginia 4



### P ilot yesterday, ODEC executive David Hudgins 5



### accused the environmental organizations of fear

6



### mongering when educating the public about the 7



### health impacts of coal

- fired power plants. He 8



### stated that there is no science that supports 9



### these exaggerated opinio ns, and that these 10



### opinions that coal would pollute the air and 11



### water, sicken our children and the elderly, and 12



### worsen air quality problems. 13



### This is simply not true. The EPA and the 14



### scientific community have a plethora of evidence 15



### to support claims that carbon pollution from 16



### coal

- fired power plants is harmful to human 17



### health. 18



### Clearly, without limits of carbon 19



### pollution, cleaner, more modern energy 20



### technologies struggle to compete with the 21



### politically powerful and heavily subsidized coal 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### companies that op erate in Virginia. 1



### Virginia and the U.S. have much to gain 2



### from the development of modern, clean, 3



### sustainable energy technologies such as wind, 4



### solar efficiency. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Ms. Byrd? 6



### MS. BYRD: Yes? 7



### MR. HARVEY: If you can wrap it up? 8



### MS. BYRD: Oka y. So I just wanted to say 9



### that the Wise Energy Coalition applauds the EPA 10



### for their leadership and for taking these common

11



### sense steps to limit carbon pollution from power 12



### plants, and I thank you for the opportunity to 13



### comment today. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 15



### Mr. Elcox. 16



### MR. ELCOX: Thank you. My name is Joe 17



### Elcox, and I live in Dedham, Massachusetts, and I 18



### work for National Wildlife Federation, and I am 19



### in full support of the carbon rule proposal. 20



### I have lived all over this country and 21



### seen m any priceless, wonderful places, but the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### place I know best is New England and specifically 1



### Squam Lake in New Hampshire. 2



### Squam Lake is at the foot of the White 3



### Mountain National Forward, and it's a place where 4



### the Abenaki Indians once lived. They fished a nd 5



### hunted there. There was teaming with mink, 6



### otter, muskrat, raccoons. The lake remains in 7



### New England a national treasury, even though many 8



### of those species are now greatly depleted. 9



### I remember as a child watching a huge 10



### tanker truck moving through th e woods near the 11



### shore. A man was positioned on the back of the 12



### truck with a huge nozzle spraying plumes of DDT 13



### throughout the woods to kill the mosquitoes and, 14



### as we now know, many other things. 15



### I still remember the sensation of the 16



### chemical burn in the back of my throat, and DDT 17



### devastated the lake. And it wasn't until a few 18



### years ago that I saw my first bald eagle on the 19



### lake, and now there are some thriving pairs on 20



### the lake and doing well. 21



### Just as DDT was destroying our ecosystem, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### so was carbon pol lution. Beyond the lake of the 1



### White Mountains, which I hike every year and 2



### marvel at their majesty, but they are not 3



### majestic enough to withstand the attacks of 4



### carbon pollution. Blue spruce trees near the 5



### mountain summits, once thriving, are being 6



### redu ced to brittle twigs as a result of this 7



### pollution. I was lucky enough to be on the top 8



### of Mount Washington on a rare day with no cloud 9



### cover, and the visibility was 75 miles, but a 10



### student at UNH, they were running a weather 11



### research facility up there, w as saying that the 12



### visibility used to be 100 miles, and that if you 13



### looked out, you could see just this carbon 14



### pollution that just was blowing in from across 15



### the country. It gives New England the title of 16



### "Tailpipe of the Nation." 17



### Carbon pollution is cau sing similar 18



### damage everywhere, and we cannot ignore it any 19



### longer. The economic impacts of this pollution 20



### are just beginning to be felt. Last month, I 21



### went to the Boston Marathon, which has been 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### running for over 100 years. My dad used to go 1



### every year before me, and temperatures on 2



### marathon day were in the '90s. And over 5,000 3



### runners decided that they would forego running 4



### because of the heat, and areas along the route 5



### that would normally be packed five

- deep with 6



### people trying to get to see the runners running 7



### down the road, they were sparsely populated, and 8



### you could walk right up to the tape along the 9



### road. 10



### Kids were selling lemonade on the corner 11



### for a charity, and they remarked how business was 12



### so slow. 13



### The marathon brings out hundreds of 14



### thousand s of people that will

-- and these people 15



### will spend tens of millions of dollars in Greater 16



### Boston, and with the extreme weather brought on 17



### by carbon pollution, we can expect to see more of 18



### the same extreme weather and issues of not being 19



### able to run the m arathon in the future. 20



### DDT gave us clear signals of trouble, and 21



### we addressed the problem. We now need to address 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the problem of carbon pollution. The EPA's 1



### carbon rule is a good first step in reversing the 2



### damage done by carbon pollution, and it's vita l 3



### that the EPA move forward with it. This is not a 4



### problem we can ignore and leave to our children 5



### and grandchildren. 6



### And I thank you very much. 7



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both very much. 8



### Thank you for coming down. 9



### Our next two speakers, if you'll come 10



### fo rward, are Sue Edwards and Myrene O'Connor. 11



### Ms. Edwards, if you'll go first? 12



### MS. EDWARDS: My name is Susan Edwards. 13



### What else did you need to know? It's spelled 14



### just like it sounds. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Are you affiliated with any 16



### group, or are you represent ing yourself? 17



### MS. EDWARDS: I'm a volunteer with the 18



### Sierra Club. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Great. 20



### MS. EDWARDS: Thank you so much for 21



### taking the time to listen to us hour after hour, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and it's probably a little bit repetitive. I 1



### hope mine is not too repetitive, but it probably 2



### will be. I appreciate the time. 3



### I'm a concerned citizen and a Sierra Club 4



### volunteer, and I'm happy to know that the EPA is 5



### taking seriously what appears to be one of the 6



### most crucial issues of our day which is the 7



### impact of climate disruptio n caused by human

8



### produced greenhouse gases in our atmosphere. 9



### I'm wholeheartedly in favor of 10



### Administrator Jackson's proposal to limit carbon 11



### pollution, a historic step forward in addressing 12



### climate change. While there are those who deny 13



### that continued use of fossil fuels presents any 14



### problem for our planet, a wiser approach is, 15



### while hoping for the best, preparing for the 16



### worst. 17



### Just as with human bodies, a slight rise 18



### in the temperature of the earth must be taken as 19



### a threat to the whole delicately ba lanced web of 20



### life. Tipping points and feedback loops may mean 21



### that we will reach points of no return, and we 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### will see increasing droughts, floods, rising 1



### seas, and extreme weather, such as we've already 2



### seen. 3



### And those least able to protect 4



### themselves a nd their communities will be those 5



### that are already underserved and neglected, such 6



### as Hurricane Katrina, but as we have already 7



### begun to see, these extreme events can affect all 8



### of us. So it never ceases to amaze me that self

9



### identified conservatives do not take a cautious 10



### approach to risk assessment when it comes to the 11



### future of our habitat as humans. 12



### Fortunately, the people of the U.S. are 13



### not fooled by the naysayers. A recent poll shows 14



### the majority of us place a higher priority on 15



### protecting the en vironment than even the economy 16



### and jobs, surprisingly enough. People understand 17



### that a thriving economy and good jobs will be 18



### meaningless without clean air and water and a 19



### livable planet. 20



### It is also clear that there will be many 21



### green jobs as we move in to a sustainable future. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### So for the sake of not just the environment but 1



### also peace and a stable economy, we need to stop 2



### the build

- up of carbon dioxide and other 3



### greenhouse gases in our atmosphere. 4



### And one other point, I have been talking 5



### to Philadelphi a parents at home and school 6



### meetings, libraries, and recreation centers about 7



### the connection between asthma and clean air. 8



### While environmental factors are responsible for 9



### as much as 30 percent of asthma, people are 10



### usually only told about individual solu tions, 11



### vacuuming, not smoking, not keeping pets, and so 12



### on, but asthma rates are particularly high in 13



### Philadelphia, affecting 22 percent of the 14



### children, which is double the national rate, and 15



### in some neighborhoods, the rate is as high as 30 16



### percent. 17



### Asth ma rates among African

- American 18



### children are higher than any other group and have 19



### risen by almost 50 percent in the last decade, 20



### and when I start asking people of color, it seems 21



### as if 90 percent of the people have someone with 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### asthma among their family an d friends. It's 1



### going to take a concerted effort to clean up our 2



### air by restricting carbon pollution to bring 3



### these rates down. 4



### Having a friend with severe asthma has 5



### opened my eyes to the fear of not being able to 6



### breathe at the lost school days and wor kdays that 7



### result. I hope the EPA will consider this and 8



### other public health impacts and will get carbon 9



### pollution under control. 10



### Thank you. 11



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Ms. Edwards. 12



### Ms. O'Connor? 13



### MS. O'CONNOR: Hi. My name is Myrene 14



### O'Connor. I'm here t oday to support the carbon 15



### rule, of course. I wonder all the time how much 16



### longer we're going to continue to destroy the 17



### earth and the people who live in it. I totally 18



### support the EPA and all you do, so I'm not here 19



### to wage a war against you, by far. 20



### It was interesting the statistics that 21



### you mentioned about children and asthma. I've 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### also read that there's an increased risk of 1



### asthma diagnosis with in vitro exposure to 2



### traffic

- related pollutants, which is really kind 3



### of startling that someone wouldn't h ave a chance 4



### before they were born. 5



### But I'm really here to talk about our 6



### son, Brian, and what happened in the middle of 7



### the night in the spring of 1996. 8



### We had moved from Orlando, Florida, a 9



### year earlier, and our son was an active player on 10



### Montgomery C ounty soccer leagues. We were sound 11



### asleep when in the middle of the night, Brian 12



### woke us up and said he couldn't breathe. 13



### I was talking to him last night about it, 14



### and he said, "You might tell people to put tape 15



### on their mouth and over their nose, and t hat 16



### would give you the same sensation." Obviously, 17



### you know what that is, but I was absolutely 18



### terrified, and I called 911. 19



### It had been a long time since I had 20



### learned CPR. My husband tried to calm Brian 21



### down, but none of us had any experience with a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to tal lack of ability to breathe. Brian had 1



### already started to panic, and I can't describe 2



### what the next few minutes were like. 3



### Later, Brian said his anxiety was as bad 4



### as the physical struggle to breathe. Anxiety 5



### used to play a big part in Brian's coping with 6



### asthma. 7



### The ambulance came right away, and Brian 8



### was breathing again, but how close he might have 9



### been to not surviving is something I think about 10



### every once in a while. This happens to all 11



### children who come down with asthma and all 12



### people, all adul ts, the thought of not being able 13



### to breathe and wondering. 14



### Brian said that he used to lay awake and 15



### wonder if he was going o be able to breathe long 16



### enough to fall asleep. As a child, that was an 17



### actual fear. 18



### Brian was on three asthma medications, 19



### whic h he took through a nebulizer several times a 20



### day. He handled his medications very well, and 21



### the allergist closely monitored the progress. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### For 6 years, Brian fought asthma and had to sit 1



### along

-- tried to participate in sports, but he 2



### regularly had to sp end time sitting on the 3



### sidelines. 4



### When he was 15, the allergist said he was 5



### free of the worst of his asthma, but that it 6



### could come back in the future. He's 25 today, 7



### and he's still a sensitive breather now, but he's 8



### not encountered asthma again. 9



### I sus pect that air pollution as the 10



### culprit at the time. We lived very close to 11



### Route 270, and you could smell it sometimes. You 12



### could smell the exhaust, and, you know, that used 13



### to make me really unhappy. 14



### I worked for the Council of Governments 15



### when they st arted the Air Quality Index in 1972 16



### or '73, and I learned all about the range of 17



### particulate matters and other pollutants in the 18



### air. I began to read up on carbon pollution and 19



### the effect on breathing in children. Please fix 20



### this problem now. 21



### MR. HARVEY : Thank you both very much for 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### sharing your stories with us. 1



### Our next two speakers are Janet Fishman 2



### and John Comella. Please come forward. 3



### We'll start with Ms. Fishman. 4



### MS. FISHMAN: I live in Philadelphia. I 5



### am involved in many environmental organi zations. 6



### It's a passionate issue for me. I have taught 7



### young people, university students. I have a son. 8



### I want them to inherit a green, clean earth. 9



### So I applaud the EPA's decision to 10



### honestly look at the problem of carbon pollution 11



### and take a stand o n lowering emissions, and I 12



### urge the EPA to lead with honest discourse and 13



### take the responsibility of presenting the facts 14



### to the American people in a situation where 15



### there's so many buzz words. And I want to 16



### mention one of them, which is that reducing 17



### em issions is a job killer. 18



### So this is an article from the Enquirer, 19



### Hawaii's Future in Recruit. I believe that 20



### Hawaii is part of the United States. 21



### The findings could mean trouble for 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### public safety, tourism, and a way of life. 1



### Little by little, Hawaii's iconic beaches are 2



### disappearing, and the erosion is connected by the 3



### U.S. Geologic Service to climate change. 4



### So some jobs will disappear if we don't 5



### do anything, and I would like to present another 6



### perspective, which is that all jobs aren't good. 7



### So th ere are many jobs in my West Philadelphia 8



### neighborhood, right down the street on the corner 9



### with independent pharmaceutical industries, drug 10



### dealing, and it offers jobs. We don't feel that 11



### these are jobs to be encouraged. They destroy 12



### health, and they de stroy the fabric of the 13



### neighborhood. 14



### And I believe that addiction to fossil 15



### fuels destroys our health and our environment. 16



### We can invest in other jobs. Some people who are 17



### raking it in may have to adjust their lifestyles, 18



### but there are many jobs in cle an energy for 19



### everyone else. And these jobs will be good for 20



### our health and for our environment. 21



### So I applause the EPA for showing back 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### bone in a difficult political environment, and I 1



### urge you to communicate this truth to the 2



### American people. Thank you

. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Ms. Fishman. Why 4



### don't you stay there. 5



### Mr. Comella? 6



### MR. COMELLA: My name is John Comella, 7



### and I live in Philadelphia. We have to clean up 8



### our air. 9



### It has two aspects, but first are all the 10



### -- coal ash. My wife had slight as thma for 30 11



### years. We lived outside of Boston. She now has 12



### fairly regular asthma, sometimes risk now that we 13



### live in Philadelphia. Other people suffer more 14



### from asthma than she does, but it definitely is 15



### unpleasant, and it's unpleasant for me having to 16



### watch her and not be able to do anything. So we 17



### need to clear that up. 18



### The other aspect is potentially even 19



### worse, and that is global warming. People 20



### describing multiple tornadoes rising as far as I 21



### can tell is a new phenomenon. If it gets much 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### worse, it could be disastrous. We need to pay 1



### attention now while we can. 2



### Another aspect is whenever I see the 3



### other lady representing the American Petroleum 4



### Institute strut across the stage saying we have 5



### 50 natural gas

-- I think she is exaggerating, 6



### but even if she is

-- even if that is the right 7



### number, we need to be more

-- cut down our use of 8



### fossil fuel, between 9 and 15 hours a day, and 9



### when the sun goes down, it goes off. So we are 10



### going to need fossil fuels forever, and if we 11



### have 50 years left, that means that my children 12



### are going to be there when we run out of fuels 13



### that we need for our civilization to survive. I 14



### want to push that out as far as possible and have 15



### minimal use of petroleum, natural gas, and all. 16



### So we need to get our act together, 17



### be cause the time is coming, and it may be too 18



### late. Thank you. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Comella, for 20



### sharing your testimony with us. We appreciate 21



### it. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Thank you both. 1



### Our next two speakers are Brian Crenshaw 2



### and William Kramer. We'll start with Mr. 3



### Crenshaw. 4



### MR. CRENSHAW: Y e s. I want to thank you 5



### for the opportunity to speak at this hearing 6



### today and support of the carbon pollution 7



### standards for electric

- generating units. 8



### Today, I bring two perspectives with me. 9



### First, as a biomedical scientist at the 10



### Children's Hospital in Philadelphia and the 11



### University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, 12



### but more importantly in my mind is as father of 13



### 12

- year

- old Zach. Although I am not a 14



### climatologist, I do read many of the major 15



### scientific articles that add ress climate change 16



### and the release of anthropogenic greenhouse gases 17



### that cause it that are published in major science 18



### journals such as Science and Nature. 19



### I followed with interest for several 20



### years the strengthening evidence in support of 21



### the science be hind global warming. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Not only do these journals address the 1



### evidence in support of climate change, they often 2



### address critical things such as engineering, 3



### policy, and economic solutions to mitigate the 4



### worst effects of climate disruption. 5



### In 2004, in a p aper in Science by Pacala 6



### and Socolow, they outlined an approach that would 7



### effectively address the problem, not by using a 8



### single solution but a series of incremental and 9



### feasible solutions for different sectors of the 10



### economy, which they refer to as "sta bilization 11



### wedges." 12



### In this approach, no single wedge would 13



### address the entire problem, but each wedge 14



### individually and collectively could lead to 15



### carbon production necessary to stimulate global 16



### warming. Critically, the power sector represents 17



### a fundamen tally important component of the 18



### solution, and I log these new carbon pollution 19



### standards as an important step in the wedge to 20



### de

- carbonize our electrical power sector. 21



### Although as a scientist, the solution to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### de

- carbonizing our economies is concrete and 1



### feasible, as a father, I'm concerned that public 2



### and private institutions are not doing enough to 3



### address the opinion, serious problems that will 4



### result if we do not reduce our emissions of 5



### greenhouse gases. 6



### I have read policy papers from the best 7



### militar y minds that view global warming as a 8



### major national security threat, and I encourage 9



### that our military is acting on the security 10



### concern by increasing their use of sustainable 11



### energy. 12



### Nonetheless, I fear that not enough is 13



### being done to ensure the securi ty in the world I 14



### am leaving behind for my son. As a scientist, 15



### I've read policy papers by groups such as 16



### McKinsey & Company that outline the dangers of 17



### global warming to our economy and the modest 18



### costs, including the costs associated with the 19



### rule propo sed today necessary to ameliorate the 20



### negative economic consequences. 21



### As a father, I strive to encourage our 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### government to take the necessary steps to ensure 1



### the prosperity of our economy in the future. 2



### Working in a major pediatric hospital, I 3



### understand the numerous ill effects that burning 4



### fossil fuels can have on vulnerable populations 5



### such as our pediatric patients. 6



### Interacting with hearings such as today, 7



### I hope to protect my own child by supporting the 8



### actions that reduce the amount of pollution be ing 9



### spewed into our environment. For these reasons, 10



### I support the efforts of the EPA and their 11



### implementing important rules to reduce our use of 12



### fossil fuels and, consequently, the production of 13



### greenhouse gases that are endangering our 14



### climate. 15



### For my s on, Zach, and his generation for 16



### their security, for their prosperity, for their 17



### health and well

- being, I implore you to implement 18



### this rule for their future and the future of our 19



### country. 20



### Thank you very much. 21



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Crenshaw. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Pleas e stay there until we're both up. 1



### Would you introduce yourself first. 2



### MR. KRAMER: William Karmer with the 3



### Sierra Club. Unlike most Americans, I have a lot 4



### of respect for scientists; however, following 5



### Brian Crenshaw is a hard act to follow. But I 6



### will do my best. 7



### My name is William. I am an organizer 8



### with the Sierra Club of Philadelphia, and I am 9



### joined today by 18 other Philadelphians that came 10



### down with the Sierra Club or came down to this 11



### hearing to testify. 12



### A lot of you have heard today a lot of 13



### facts and figures about why it's important to 14



### produce carbon dioxide emissions. So I'm not 15



### going to dwell on the facts and figures. I think 16



### climate change is a very personal issue for three 17



### reasons. 18



### For one, I am the father of a 5

- year

- old 19



### named Noah, and I read about global warming 20



### predictions explaining the extreme weather, 21



### floods, droughts, price spikes that are 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### anticipated for years like 2035, 2050. I realize 1



### my son will be 29 and 44 years old. His 2



### generation will suffer the consequences of our 3



### fa ilure to act today. 4



### Moreover, I am compelled to act as a 5



### person with an international perspective on the 6



### world. Before coming to the Sierra Club, I 7



### worked with peasant farmers from around the 8



### world, including people from Africa, Bangladesh, 9



### Bolivia, Guat emala, and Mexico. Climate 10



### scientists tell us that people from these 11



### countries, especially the rural poor, will be the 12



### most affected by climate change. Many of these 13



### people are my friends, and I feel compelled to 14



### act and support their struggles. 15



### Finally , I also recognize that addressing 16



### climate change means creating green jobs for the 17



### unemployed and working people in the United 18



### States. In short, those who have the most to 19



### lose from climate change in our country are the 20



### people who often suffer the highes t rates of 21



### asthma because of air pollution and have the most 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### to gain from the creation of green jobs. 1



### Climate scientists tell us that we are in 2



### a period of profound catastrophic warming. 3



### However, they also tell us that if we act 4



### together globally, for pa rticularly 5



### industrialized nations like the United States, we 6



### may be able to stave off the worst of these 7



### changes. We have the technology and the 8



### manufacturing capability to dramatically reduce 9



### our carbon emissions. What has been lacking 10



### until recently ha s been the political will. 11



### The fact that EPA is holding hearings, 12



### this hearing and other hearings you've held in 13



### recent years and that so many people here in 14



### Washington, D.C., have come out to support this 15



### standard represents to me the hope that we really 16



### can do what it takes to protect our planet before 17



### it's too late. 18



### Thank you for your time. 19



### [Applause.] 20



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Mr. Karmer and 21



### Mr. Crenshaw, for coming down from Philadelphia. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: Thanks to all of 1



### you who traveled so fa r to get here. We are 2



### impressed by the fact that many of you have come 3



### from many hours away, New England, far reaches of 4



### Virginia, and anywhere in between. 5



### MR. HARVEY: All right. Our next two 6



### speakers are Jennie Gosche and Melinda Erdberg. 7



### Jennie Gosc he or Melinda Erdberg. 8



### [Pause.] 9



### MR. HARVEY: Briana Liu. Briana Liu? 10



### Okay, great. If you could spell your name for 11



### us, and then if you're affiliated with any group? 12



### MS. LIU: Hello. My name is Briana Liu, 13



### B

- R

- I

- A

- N

- A, L

- I

- U. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 15



### MS. LIU: So, good afternoon. I'm Briana 16



### Liu. I come today as a citizen, and I am from 17



### Rockville, Maryland. And I'm also an upcoming 18



### sophomore at Princeton University. 19



### So I'm sure you have heard a lot about 20



### the scientific reasoning behind passing thi s law, 21



### and I was sitting there in the audience. I also 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### heard a lot of facts and statistics. So I want 1



### to speak more about this issue's personal 2



### significance to me and why I think the 3



### environment is really important. 4



### So I grew up really just looking at 5



### p lanets and animals and nature, but then as I 6



### grew older, I began to realize more the human 7



### impact of climate change and the environment. 8



### And more and more, the environment carried like 9



### just more of a human face to me, and I saw more 10



### of the people whose li ves were just being 11



### impacted by the environment on a day

- to

- day 12



### basis. 13



### And, I mean, you can call me sick, but 14



### that's what I plan on doing for my career. I 15



### want to pursue environmental policy, because I 16



### really want to help these people in the world 17



### have a better life, because I feel that the 18



### environment is really the most universal issue 19



### there is. It affects everyone on this planet in 20



### such interpolated ways. 21



### So as a member of this new generation, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the youth that so many people have talked about, 1



### that savi ng the environment is something for the 2



### future generation, I want to say that it's true 3



### that the environment is something affecting the 4



### future, but more than that, it's also something 5



### affecting people living right now at this very 6



### moment today. And I thin k people don't realize 7



### enough just like how much of an impact the 8



### environment already has on people, the quality of 9



### their lives, their well

- being, and the tens of 10



### thousands of lives that have already been lost to 11



### environmental disasters and just causes. 12



### I think this is something that we need to 13



### realize. So what are we going to do about it? 14



### Last semester at university, I took a 15



### class called the Fundamentals of Environmental 16



### Studies. So it's basically just a really basic 17



### overview of environmental issues, and, I mean, 18



### there's just so much that was opened up to me, so 19



### many different proposed solutions, but the most 20



### obvious one that stood out was still the energy 21



### sector. And that's what this law pertains to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### today. 1



### I mean, the simple solution is simply 2



### putti ng a cap, setting a limit to carbon 3



### emissions for power plants of the future, but 4



### even as I was reading the EPA fact sheet, the EPA 5



### statement, I sense how

-- I sense the opposition, 6



### the hurdles to even this kind of really like 7



### august solutions to our probl ems. The tone was 8



### pretty cautious, I thought, and that I don't 9



### know. It was almost as if I guess the 10



### environmental

-- the environmentalists are afraid 11



### to offend the coal industry or just repeatedly 12



### emphasizing that this is a measure that only 13



### impacts the coal plants of the future and not any 14



### today, and that coal

- fired power plants would not 15



### be affected, like things like that. 16



### I mean, so, frankly, I feel that the EPA 17



### should have more of a fitting attitude, and I 18



### understand that the political climate today may 19



### be unfitting for this with all the deficit issues 20



### and all of that, but still, I feel like there 21



### must be someone in the government who understands 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the urgency of these issues and how important the 1



### environment is to us. 2



### So I feel like this law is not o nly 3



### moderate, but it's also long overdue. So I want 4



### to thank you for these efforts but also urge you 5



### to please keep on fighting. 6



### I guess the last thing is that, again, in 7



### that class that I took, we went through many 8



### readings, debating the different cours es that we 9



### might take. One stated quite dramatically that 10



### maybe we should not do anything right now, that 11



### maybe we should wait for something really big to 12



### hit us in the future, because any change that we 13



### pass today will only serve to temporarily 14



### alleviate these symptoms and won't fundamentally 15



### address these root issues. 16



### But so that only when it hits us really 17



### hard will we be able to actually change our mind

18



### sets and actually enact meaningful change, which 19



### does make sense to some degree, but then I 20



### thought about it, and I was like we cannot go at 21



### it that way, because when it actually comes and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### when we are actually severely affected, it will 1



### come at the cost of hundreds of thousands of 2



### lives, and we simply cannot wait to see that 3



### happen. 4



### So I think I am spe aking pretty 5



### passionately here, but I just really feel the 6



### sense of urgency, and I wish that all of us could 7



### also feel that as well, and

-- 8



### MR. HARVEY: I should say your time is 9



### up. 10



### MS. LIU: My time is up? 11



### MR. HARVEY: But you can wrap up. 12



### MS. LIU: I can wrap up. Okay. 13



### MR. HARVEY: In a very few seconds. 14



### MS. LIU: The very last thing would be 15



### that I guess there are also readings that pointed 16



### to how the U.S., because we are a market

- driven 17



### economy that so hitched on this wasteful 18



### consumerism and h ow our system as a democracy is 19



### so dependent on winning the favor of constituents 20



### today that we fail to see the long

- term vision 21



### and fail to have a long

- term plan for the future. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### And I feel that we must like firmly 1



### resist the sentiment and prove to the wo rld that 2



### we are capable, the U.S. as a market

- driven 3



### economy that's a democracy. We can be capable of 4



### leading this change and be at the forefront 5



### driving this, so thank you. 6



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 7



### [Applause.] 8



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. I think we are going 9



### t o take a temporary break and go off record, 10



### since we have no speakers waiting for us at this 11



### point. 12



### [Recess taken from 2:57 to 3:02 p.m.] 13



### MR. HARVEY: Do we have Susan Davis here 14



### or Jennie Gosche? Would you come up, please? 15



### MS. DAVIS: Do you want us o ver here? 16



### MR. HARVEY: Yes, please. 17



### Are you Ms. Davis? I'd like both of you 18



### sitting up front here. What we're doing is we're 19



### calling people up in pairs, have both of you 20



### speak, and if we have any clarifying questions, 21



### we'll pose those after both of you have spoken, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and then you both will go sit down. 1



### So, Ms. Davis, if you wouldn't mind 2



### starting? You have 5 minutes. We have a timer 3



### here. When you see the yellow, the yellow light 4



### is your signal that you have 1 minute left, and 5



### the red light is my sign al to tell you to stop. 6



### MS. DAVIS: Okay. Well, I'm going to 7



### read. I'm more comfortable doing it from my own 8



### computer. So I'm just going to read what I

-- 9



### MR. HARVEY: Please use the microphone. 10



### Thank you. 11



### MS. DAVIS: How's that? 12



### MR. HARVEY: Bette r. 13



### MS. DAVIS: I can think of no important 14



### issue that is not impacted by global warming from 15



### war to health to water availability to 16



### agriculture to the very sustainability of complex 17



### life forms on this planet. 18



### If dramatic climate change caused by 19



### greenhou se gases in the past has led, as I 20



### recently read, to massive extinctions, there is 21



### no reason to doubt that this can happen again. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Even if we survive, we cannot thrive with 1



### continued degradation of our environment. The 2



### earth may survive, but our species m ay not be so 3



### fortunate. Human pollution has already had 4



### demonstrably negative effects. 5



### When I look at my precious grandbabies, I 6



### am ashamed that we may be giving them a world in 7



### which their chance for any decent quality of life 8



### is imperiled by our neglig ence. No increase in 9



### energy availability is worth that cost. 10



### Since demand for energy is likely to 11



### continue, strict regulation of destructive side 12



### effects is absolutely critical. 13



### Finally, my long career in mental health 14



### and family systems only reinforces my 15



### determination to press for protection from carbon 16



### pollution. At the individual level, since 17



### breathing is the one behavior under both 18



### voluntary and involuntary control, it is key to 19



### behavioral health. 20



### How deeply you can breathe affects 21



### everything from anger management and PTSD 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### recovery to the very range of sensory systems 1



### that you can use to think. 2



### The systemic climate issues issuing from 3



### global warming affect both mental and physical 4



### health in too many ways to enumerate here. I 5



### must say when I was d oing this, my mind was going 6



### off. There are just so many ways. 7



### When I was raising my children, I often 8



### thought about the affluence in the world is not 9



### given to you by your parents. It's loaned to you 10



### by your children and all of our children. I hope 11



### tha t this thought will guide your decision today. 12



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Ms. Davis. 13



### Ms. Gosche, could you spell your name 14



### also for our reporter and use the microphone? 15



### MS. GOSCHE: J

- E

- N

- N

- I

- E. My last name 16



### is Gosche, G

- O

- S

- C

- H

- E. 17



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you

. 18



### MS. GOSCHE: And I brought some of my 19



### photography with me today to kind of help 20



### illustrate why I am so concerned about air 21



### quality. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I also am a therapist and a social 1



### worker. I work for Montgomery County Government 2



### at the Montgomery County Crisis Cent er. That's 3



### how I earn a living, but my passion and my love 4



### is for photography and for wildlife. 5



### I live in Kensington, Maryland. I've 6



### lived in Washington since 1980. I got my social 7



### work degree from Catholic University in 8



### Washington. 9



### I have been a phot ographer for over 30 10



### years. My trip to Canada in November of 2010 11



### where I took these photographs and nearly a 12



### thousand others was my first foray into digital 13



### photography, and I have loved wildlife for many, 14



### many years. I have always been a fan of the 15



### ani mals, but wildlife for some reason has always 16



### held a real interest for me. 17



### I was an advocate a number of years ago 18



### to try to stop hunting at a church

- owned property 19



### in Germantown, Maryland. I was not successful, 20



### but I got my picture in the Washington Pos t as 21



### the only demonstrator against the hunting. If 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### somebody googles me, that's what comes up. 1



### I went to Churchill, Manitoba, Canada, in 2



### November of 2011 to see the polar bears. There 3



### are 19 subgroups of polar bears around in the 4



### Arctic. There are five Arctic nations, the 5



### United States, which is Alaska, Canada, Russia, 6



### Norway

-- I have to look at my notes, because I 7



### kind of forget

-- Norway for the Island of 8



### Svalbard and Denmark, which owns Greenland. 9



### So the bears in Alaska and in Canada are 10



### the most ac cessible of the 19 subgroups, and 11



### there are tours that go to Canada every year in 12



### the fall to see the bears. They congregate on 13



### the edge of the Hudson Bay waiting for the ice to 14



### freeze. Polar bears and walruses and two kinds 15



### of seals are the mammals that absolutely depend 16



### on ice to survive. The polar bear eats seals. 17



### That is their primary food, because they're full 18



### of fat, and they need a lot of fat. They go 19



### months and months and months without food. They 20



### eat a great deal in the spring, and sometimes go 21



### until the fall or the winter without food. They 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### go the longest of, I think, almost any mammal 1



### without food. 2



### So when I was in Churchill in November of 3



### 2011, we stayed in something called the Tundra 4



### Lodge, which is a group of trailers that are 5



### pulled ou t on the Tundra, so you are right there. 6



### At least we were from here to that door to the 7



### Hudson Bay, which was all water. There was no 8



### ice in November. 9



### And one of my concerns and why I am here 10



### today is because carbon pollution does affect 11



### climate. There 's a lot of agreement about 12



### climate change, and climate change is affecting 13



### the Arctic and the Antarctic at a greater level 14



### than other parts of the world, although all the 15



### world is experiencing unusual weather and a lot 16



### of other events, but the Arctic and the Antarctic 17



### are particularly affected by climate change and 18



### global warming. 19



### And I am very fearful about the survival 20



### of the animals that I was able to see. I saw 21



### Arctic fox. I saw polar bears. I saw 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### ptarmigans. We didn't see any Arctic hares, but 1



### th ey are there. 2



### So my concern is if the ice is gone, the 3



### bears will be gone. They will be extinct, and 4



### the different projections as to how soon that 5



### will happen vary depending on the scientists that 6



### you ask, but I think that it's very possible that 7



### it coul d be in our lifetime. They are 8



### magnificent animals. I was as close to them as 9



### that table. We were 10 feet off the ground, and 10



### these huge wheels, like earth

- mover wheels, and 11



### the bears come around the lodge, because they 12



### smell food and they're hungry. 13



### T he mother bears and the babies, we had 14



### to go out on rovers to see them. The mothers do 15



### not come to the lodge, because the male bears can 16



### attack the babies, especially if they're hungry. 17



### So we would have to go out. 18



### And if the bears do not have enough to 19



### eat, it affects the fertility of the bears. They 20



### do not have

-- their eggs do not implant unless 21



### they are fat enough to carry a pregnancy, and 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### they stay in the dens for months, and if they 1



### cannot nurse the babies, then the babies will not 2



### survive if the m others are not fat enough. 3



### I think that the climate change directly 4



### affects the survival of these magnificent 5



### animals. So I am hoping that you will not only 6



### make rules that affect new construction of power 7



### plants but also the existing power plants that 8



### a re really not that regulated as far as the 9



### carbon pollution that they are putting out in the 10



### atmosphere. 11



### And the Arctic is one living organism. 12



### What happens in Alaska affects Svalbard and 13



### affects Canada, affects Russia. So what we do in 14



### the United State s does have an impact all over 15



### the Arctic. So I hope you will consider our 16



### statements positively and rule to increase the 17



### controls on these emissions. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you, and thank you for 20



### sharing your photographs with us. 21



### MS. GOSCHE: Y ou're welcome. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: Beautiful 1



### photographs. 2



### MR. HARVEY: One speaker, Don Halbert. 3



### [Pause.] 4



### MR. HARVEY: Whenever you're ready. 5



### MR. HALBERT: Can I start? Good 6



### afternoon. My name is Donald Halbert, and I'm a 7



### retired railroader and th e proud father of two 8



### sons and a grandfather of five, and I'm grateful 9



### for the opportunity to speak today in favor of 10



### the proposed carbon standard for new power 11



### plants. 12



### Do I have to say the docket number? 13



### MR. HARVEY: No, no, no. 14



### MR. HALBERT: Okay. 15



### EP A's proposal aims to limit greenhouse 16



### gas emission from new fossil fuel

- fired power 17



### plants by limiting CO 2 

### emissions. Today, 18



### according to the DOE, coal generates about half 19



### of our nation's electricity. Well, this percent 20



### will decline as cheap coal phases itself out. 21



### We're stuck with it, and we need to cut CO 2 

### now. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### My testimony today focuses on the 1



### proposals inside the proposal's mandate to reduce 2



### CO 2 

### using our best demonstrated technology, to wit 3



### carbon capture and storage, an option I believe 4



### we must p ursue aggressively. 5



### Do I need to define it? 6



### MR. HARVEY: No. We're aware of what it 7



### is. 8



### MR. HALBERT: No? I'll spare you that. 9



### Thank you. 10



### In exploring this issue, I found a great 11



### number of experts agree on the wisdom of 12



### developing CCS. I'm going to stop there and say 13



### I found a great number of experts who didn't 14



### agree with it too, and it seemed their opinions 15



### were basically a fear that this is a roost or 16



### some kind of diversion tactic by the coal folks, 17



### so just to ensure that they'll continue. 18



### I thin k the standards, 1,000 per kilowatt 19



### hour, precludes that. I think it requires CCS. 20



### Just to provide for the record

-- and I 21



### imagine this is probably already in the record, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### but George Monbiot, who is a professor at Oxford, 1



### in his 2007 book, "Heat: How to Stop the Planet 2



### from Burning," said that, "I've come to believe 3



### this technology can with sufficient political 4



### commitment wind up going before 2030"

-- I'm not 5



### going to

-- I have about seven pros. I also 6



### included in here about six cons, but I just 7



### wanted t o expose for the record the whole story 8



### as far as I can see it. 9



### John Deutch and his partner, Ernest 10



### Moniz, from MIT said in 2009, "Our overall 11



### judgment is that the prospect for geological CO 2 12



### sequestration is excellent. We base this 13



### judgment on 30 years of experience and the 14



### ability of the earth's crust to trap CO 2 

### . The DOE 15



### should launch a program to develop and deploy 16



### large

- scale sequestration demonstration 17



### projects." Unfortunately, I think it's expiring. 18



### Finally, George Peridas, who is a 19



### scientist wi th the Natural Resources Defense 20



### Council, said in '08, testifying before the House 21



### of Representatives

-- this is my favorite

-- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### "Growing scientific research indicates we face 1



### extreme dangers to human health, economic well

2



### being, and the ecosystem in which we depend if 3



### global average temperatures are allowed to 4



### increase by more than 2 degrees Fahrenheit from 5



### today's levels. We have good prospects staying 6



### below this temperature increase if atmospheric 7



### concentrations of CO 2 

### and other global warming 8



### dangers ar e kept from exceeding 450 parts per 9



### million. The CO 2 

### "

-- excuse me

-- "450 parts per 10



### million CO 2 

### equivalent, and then after leveling it 11



### off, it needs to be rapidly reduced. To make 12



### this possible, it requires immediate steps to 13



### reduce global emissions ove r the next several 14



### decades, including action to halt U.S. emission 15



### growth within the next few years and then cut 16



### emissions by approximately 80 percent by mid 17



### century. Those goal is ambitious but achievable. 18



### Fortunately, a wide variety of tools is 19



### availab le to day to achieve those reductions, but 20



### we will need all the tools at our disposal. One 21



### such tool is carbon capture and sequestration." 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### I think I will conclude there, and I 1



### thank you for the opportunity to talk. 2



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. If you'd like

, 3



### we can also put your statement in the docket. 4



### MR. HALBERT: Yes, I'd like that. I'd 5



### like to put it in. 6



### MR. HARVEY: You can leave that with us. 7



### MR. HALBERT: Do I need to tell anything 8



### about what I'm putting in? Because I'm putting 9



### in several unfavo rable items too that I thought 10



### were

-- kind of demonstrated the crux of those 11



### opponents to the standards. Once the standard 12



### goes in and we have got that measurement, that 13



### baseline, 1,000 per kilowatt hour, I think that's 14



### a touchdown, I think. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 16



### MR. HALBERT: Thank you very much. 17



### MR. HARVEY: All right. We are going to 18



### take a temporary break again and go off record. 19



### [Recess taken from 3:20 to 3:33 p.m.] 20



### MR. HARVEY: We are back on the record 21



### now. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### We are going to resume our publi c 1



### hearing. Next to speak are George Edwards and 2



### Curtis Atkinson. If you haven't been here 3



### earlier, everyone has 5 minutes. I'd like you to 4



### start by introducing yourself, and if you're 5



### affiliated with another group, introduce that 6



### affiliation. And we ha ve a reporter here who is 7



### taking notes, recording what you're saying, and 8



### there's going to be a written transcript. We 9



### have a timer. You have 5 minutes, 4 minutes of 10



### the green light, 1 minute of the yellow light, 11



### red light means stop. Okay? 12



### So Mr. Edwa rds? 13



### MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Thank you. I would 14



### like to thank you and appreciate you for what you 15



### guys are doing. I believe in the government 16



### workers. I believe it's important that we have a 17



### government that works. I'm not afraid of the 18



### government, Big Go vernment. 19



### I'm a retired UAW, local resident, and 20



### also a machinist for 35 years. Listening to the 21



### other presentations, I had to come up and say a 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### few things myself based on the types of things 1



### that we did as a kid, the environment as adults 2



### we shouldn't d o, and about environmental hazards 3



### that exist back then that we learned too late the 4



### importance of the EPA and someone can watch over 5



### what it is we're doing to our atmosphere. 6



### As a kid, when we dropped a mercury 7



### thermometer, we picked it up and played wit h the 8



### mercury, colored our dimes, and made our dimes 9



### nice and shiny. Matter of fact, during the last 10



### few years when we came across a switch that had 11



### mercury in it, you backed off. If you dropped 12



### one, that was a hazardous clean

- up. No one is 13



### allowed in t he area. We learned a little too 14



### late for when I was a kid about the dangers of 15



### mercury. 16



### And I grew up in a housing project. 17



### There was a lot of lead that was used in the 18



### windows in the housing projects. We know how 19



### important that is for kids not to pla y with lead, 20



### and we learned that in later life a little too 21



### large, running behind the mosquito trucks that 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### sprayed all the kids, ran behind the trucks and 1



### breathed that stuff in. Hey, the mosquitoes 2



### weren't going to get into our bones, but no one 3



### knew at the time, no adults, no government saying 4



### do not let kids run behind the sprayer. 5



### As an older adult and serving in Vietnam, 6



### the Agent Orange that was sprayed so that I could 7



### see in the jungle, thanks a lot, you know. Did 8



### you check out really what it did besides destroy 9



### the plants? 10



### Just asbestos as a kid, they passed 11



### around samples of asbestos in the classroom and 12



### told us the importance of asbestos and how it 13



### prevents fires and keep fires from going. We 14



### actually touched, smelled, and played with it. 15



### Now adays when there's asbestos discovered in ap 16



### lace, it's a hazardous

-- you know, put the 17



### plastic up, get the people out of there, get the 18



### respirators on. We learned a little bit too 19



### late. 20



### Something as simple as sun tan oil, 21



### laying on the beach and put th at baby oil on 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### until you turn brown, we know the dangers of 1



### being out in the sun. We learned it as adults, 2



### but we didn't know it then. 3



### But there are things that we know now, 4



### and that's about clean air. We know it, and we 5



### need to treat it like we did the mercury, like we 6



### did with the lead. It's toxic. It's bad for us, 7



### and as adults, as a former union officer, I 8



### believe in leadership, and I believe there's 9



### people in positions that can make those 10



### leadership decisions that are important to your 11



### members. 12



### Y our members are the people of the United 13



### States, and I'm one of them now, a retired 14



### officer, depending on the EPA and the government 15



### to guide us. Let's step up to the plate. Let's 16



### be the heroes. We like to say everybody is a 17



### hero nowadays, but you guys are on the position 18



### as government employees to step up. Let's make 19



### the decisions that really help the people and 20



### help the future of our country, so that people 21



### won't play with mercury anymore or play with the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### lead. 1



### I thank you for the opportunity, and 2



### let's do a good job. Thank you. 3



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 4



### [Applause.] 5



### MR. HARVEY: Mr. Atkinson. 6



### MR. ATKINSON: Good afternoon. Curtis 7



### Atkinson representing NAACP. 8



### I'm a social worker and a government 9



### employee who resides here in the Greater 10



### Washingto n, D.C., area. I would like to first 11



### thank you for this opportunity for regular 12



### citizens such as myself to express concerns to 13



### the EPA. 14



### I have never done anything like this 15



### before in my life. I am a true grass

- roots 16



### social worker, but I felt compelled t o be here 17



### today and attempt to broaden my horizons and 18



### explore my call of class equality on a more macro 19



### level. 20



### I work with the most challenging inner

21



### city schools in the nation. Besides being 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### underfunded, a greater common threat exists 1



### between schools i n the inner city. Urban 2



### educational environment suffer from other 3



### factors, which hinders success. Absenteeism from 4



### high rates of asthma have been well documented. 5



### Asthma affects African Americans at a 6



### rate of 36 percent higher than that of other 7



### America ns. African Americans are hospitalized 8



### for asthma at a rate of two to three times the 9



### rate of other Americans and die of asthma at a 10



### rate of twice that of other Americans. 11



### Many children reside in urban locations 12



### also have been diagnosed with learning 13



### dis abilities, high lead levels, and attention 14



### deficit hyperactivity disorder. I am not 15



### hypothesizing that pollution is a direct cause of 16



### ADHD or other mental health issues that plague 17



### our society, but I do believe it's time that we 18



### as a society begin to expl ore the organic origins 19



### of such issues. 20



### Many studies have been conducted that 21



### reference environmental impacts. Those studies 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### define environmental and socioeconomic factors, 1



### but I would like to define environmental impact 2



### as a more livable term. 3



### Approxim ately, 68 percent of African 4



### Americans live within 30 miles of coal

- fired 5



### power plants, which is a zone highest of impact 6



### from exposure of toxins, pollutants, and other 7



### issues from coal plants. 8



### According to studies, carbon dioxide 9



### pollution creates a dome which traps and 10



### concentrated increases the effects of other 11



### toxins inhaled like mercury, arsenic, lead, 12



### sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen oxide, which also 13



### emit from power plants. 14



### Air pollutants are connected to extreme 15



### health problems, such as brain damage, birth 16



### defects, heart disease, cancer, and premature 17



### death. Lead exposure has been linked to learning 18



### problems, including ADHD. 19



### Between learning challenges and high out

20



### of

- school rates for children with asthma, 21



### African

- American children often face a high 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### burden of barriers for success. We know too well 1



### the linkage between school success and the risk 2



### of incarceration. 3



### Studies show that a lack of school 4



### success is the greatest indicator of the link of 5



### behavior stability. A solid education provides 6



### greater opportunities for success. Those who are 7



### unable to perform in school often become 8



### disenfranchised, which leads to anti

- social 9



### behavior. People with ADHD commit crimes of a 10



### much higher rate for the same reasons as those 11



### without ADHD, sometimes simple as wanting money 12



### or property that belongs to others and have 13



### little motivation to acquire those assets 14



### honestly. 15



### Those with ADHD also have other triggers 16



### for crimes. Adolescents and adults with 17



### untreated ADHD are often bored, sensation

18



### seeking, or simply im pulsive, and this 19



### combination of attributes leads them to poor 20



### judgment, a desired item, that's what they want, 21



### so they take it off peers, that individuals with 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### ADHD commit violent crimes. These acts are more 1



### likely to lead to crimes spontaneous or reacti ve 2



### aggressive rather than carefully plotted our 3



### defenses. 4



### Such crimes are generally impulsive acts 5



### driven by provocation or conflict that triggers 6



### an outburst. Research with adult male offenders 7



### seems to bear out this hypothesis. Studies show 8



### that at le ast 25 percent of prisoners in the 9



### United States have ADHD. 10



### The recidivism rate among felons is high, 11



### and an estimated two

- thirds are arrested

-- 12



### excuse me

-- rearrested within 3 years. These 13



### statistics have important implications for 14



### society at large. 15



### I would like to commend the EPA for 16



### taking this very important first step. I 17



### sincerely hope that this is a gateway to greater 18



### regulation for new plants or more importantly for 19



### existing locations. We cannot allow big business 20



### to tell us what they can't do . It is our job as 21



### citizens to ensure that all Americans receive 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### equal protection and the opportunity to thrive. 1



### Passive of the carbon pollution standards 2



### will ensure that communities worldwide will not 3



### face new threats from plants that will degrade 4



### thei r health today and have everlasting societal 5



### impacts such as ruining the physical, emotional, 6



### and mental health of those who have no choice but 7



### to live within the path of destruction of mining 8



### plants. 9



### Thank you. 10



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 11



### [Applause.] 12



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you both for your 13



### compelling testimony and for sharing your time 14



### with us today. 15



### Our next speakers, Deborah McKinney and 16



### Steve Harvey. 17



### We will start with Ms. McKinney. Again, 18



### if you could introduce yourself, and then let us 19



### know, and we'll get you started. And move the 20



### microphone close to you, so we can hear you. 21



### MS. McKINNEY: Okay. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: Great. 1



### MS. McKINNEY: Good afternoon. My name 2



### is Deborah McKinney, and I

-- [inaudible]. 3



### I am a single African

- American woman with 4



### no childr en, a master's degree, two jobs, no 5



### health insurance, and like many people who aren't 6



### able to come speak with you today, I struggle to 7



### afford healthy food to eat. 8



### I currently live in Ward 7, which has one 9



### of the District's highest poverty rates. It's 10



### als o known for being a food desert in terms of 11



### access to healthy nutritious food and quality 12



### options. 13



### There are instead liquor stores, corner 14



### stores selling phone cards, cigarettes. Why is 15



### this important? Because when you consider the 16



### fact that there is su ch limited options for 17



### nutritious foods and the fact that the air that 18



### people are forced to breathe in these communities 19



### insurance contaminated with pollution, you are 20



### creating a recipe for socioeconomic and 21



### educational disaster. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### The District of Columbia, which 1



### unfortunately does not have benefits of State 2



### status, is one of the highest concentrated rates 3



### in the country particularly for children. The 4



### prevalence of asthma among children age zero to 5



### 17 is higher in D.C. than nationwide. 6



### I personally suffer from breathing and 7



### skin conditions no doctor can explain the source 8



### of. I have no doubt that poor air quality of 9



### Ward 7 combined with other environmental 10



### conditions are contributing factors. There are, 11



### in fact, studies that supports my concerns. 12



### I inten d to do my part by limiting my 13



### consumption of waste, recycling, taking public 14



### transportation more often, and learning, 15



### teaching, and practicing more green living. 16



### However, what shall be done about my friends and 17



### family members I have lost to cancer or to my 18



### friends with serious challenges with fibro tumors 19



### that, again, no medical research can point to the 20



### extended causes of? Some of these women have 21



### fibroids to such great effect that they had to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### forfeit their uteruses. 1



### I can only ask that you remember th at the 2



### air pollution standards which all of us and that 3



### people of color and poor people often endure, and 4



### we have to find a change. I ask the EPA to pass 5



### and enforce standards that protect and enhance 6



### all communities. 7



### A good friend of mine sometimes says to 8



### me if the right thing was easy to do, everyone 9



### would do it. Enacting strict regulations on air 10



### pollution is an imperative, and I implore you to 11



### do the right thing for inhabitants this country. 12



### Thank you. 13



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 14



### [Applause.] 15



### MR. HAR VEY: Next is Mr. Harvey. 16



### MR. [Steve] HARVEY: Good afternoon. My 17



### name is Steve Harvey. I traveled here today from 18



### Philadelphia where I live with my wife and 19



### children and where I work as a lawyer. 20



### My children, Jack and Paige, are 9 and 8 21



### years old. As a family, we spend a lot of time 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### outdoors riding on bikes, gardening, playing 1



### baseball, golf, tennis, we hike, and I am a daily 2



### bike commuter. I ride my bike back and forth to 3



### work every day, 365 days a year, except in the 4



### most extreme weather. 5



### I lead a pretty busy life. So I had to 6



### ask myself on the train today: What am I doing 7



### spending my own money on train fare and missing 8



### work to come down here to Washington, D.C., to 9



### testify at an EPA hearing? And the answer that 10



### came back to me quickly was prett y compelling, 11



### because the issue of controlling CO 2 

### emissions is 12



### perhaps the biggest public policy issue of our 13



### time, one we can control if we get on top of it 14



### as a society. It directly affects me and my 15



### family. 16



### Perhaps the biggest policy issue of our 17



### tim e. Really? Is it up there with slavery, 18



### civil rights, and opposition to totalitarianism, 19



### to name just a few? 20



### I think most people would agree our 21



### scientists have reached a broad consensus that 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the CO 2 

### emissions are causing global warming, and 1



### if not cont rolled soon will lead to devastating 2



### environmental, economic, and health consequences 3



### in our times and those of our children. 4



### Given those predictions, can we really 5



### afford not to act? What will we say to our 6



### children and their children? That we were too 7



### busy? That we weren't willing to adjust our 8



### lives so that they would be able to enjoy life? 9



### If some citizens can give up their lives in time 10



### of war, we can certainly find it in ourselves to 11



### act to protect our environment, our economy, and 12



### our life. 13



### But the good news, the really important 14



### news is that the problem can be managed if we act 15



### soon, and I commend the EPA for taking this 16



### important first step. This steps seems to me 17



### obviously right. 18



### I submit to you that in light of the 19



### economic and new cause of uncontrolled CO 2 20



### emissions that the next step addressing existing 21



### plants will also be a no

- brainer. The short

- term 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### economic cost of not complying with the efforts 1



### to control CO 2 

### emissions are a grain of sand in 2



### comparison. 3



### On behalf of myself, but mor e importantly 4



### my children and their children someday, I 5



### encourage you to take this first step. The cost 6



### of not acting is far too great. 7



### [Applause.] 8



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 9



### Our next speakers, Royal Mayo and Doug 10



### Peters, please come up to the front. 11



### We still start with Mr. Mayo. 12



### MR. MAYO: This is my little man. He 13



### goes with me everywhere. 14



### Hello. My name is Royal Mayo. I am here 15



### representing the Ohio State Conference of the 16



### NAACP as well as the Steubenville, Ohio, unit of 17



### the NAACP, and my concerns for citizens 18



### everywhere. 19



### First, let me start by saying that 20



### elected official want to hurt businesses or stop 21



### job growth is just silly. The idea to save lives 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and improve the quality of life for citizens is 1



### what we're all about. 2



### I can't remember anybody criticizing Big 3



### Government or the EPA about regulations after the 4



### oil spill of BP a couple of years ago. 5



### I was born in Steubenville, Ohio, in 6



### 1967. Three years later, the EPA was created, 7



### and the Clean Air Act was passed. Originally, 8



### the EPA was empower ed to determine safe limits 9



### and to regulate six major pollutants between 1970 10



### and 2010. It was expanded to 189. 11



### In 1974, Harvard began a six

- city guide 12



### based on particle pollution in the air; Portage 13



### County, Wisconsin, because it had the best air, 14



### and St eubenville, Ohio, because it was considered 15



### the worst. The study showed that Portage had 26 16



### percent fewer deaths related to heart and lung 17



### disease than Steubenville had during the same 18



### period of time. My question is what made the air 19



### in Steubenville so b ad and more importantly the 20



### people so unhealthy? 21



### For years, the Ohio Valley as located was 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### known as the industrial and labor intensive town, 1



### just 39 miles from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We 2



### had two steel mills, Wheeling

- Pittsburgh Steel 3



### and National Steel . Sometime in the middle of 4



### the 20th century, coal

- fired power plants joined 5



### the landscape of major employers and major 6



### environmental damaging corporations. 7



### Steubenville is the county seat of 8



### Jefferson County, and within 36 miles of 9



### Steubenville, you hav e three coal

- fired power 10



### plants. The first one, farthest away, 36 miles 11



### away, owned by First Energy; the second one owned 12



### by First Energy is the Cardinal plant in 13



### Brilliant, Ohio; and also the Sammis plant in 14



### Stratton, Ohio. 15



### First Energy said its largest plant in 16



### Ohio is the first energy plant. I don't know if 17



### any community in this country has so many coal

18



### fired plants as close together as Steubenville 19



### does, nor the cancer

- related deaths and heart 20



### disease caused by the air pollutants. 21



### Now, let me tell y ou why it's personal to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### me. I am a third generation of my family in 1



### Steubenville, Ohio. My father's parents came to 2



### Steubenville from different towns in Georgia. In 3



### the 20th century, they met in Steubenville. My 4



### paternal grandparents came later, my gra ndfather 5



### from Georgia and my grandmother from North 6



### Carolina. All four of them left the Jim Crow 7



### South pretty much for the same reason: better

8



### paying jobs in the North and escape the racism of 9



### the South. 10



### I lost three of my four grandparents to 11



### environme ntal hazards that they faced from living 12



### in Steubenville, Ohio. The hazards are directly 13



### created to the air, the poor air in the city. 14



### In 1999, both my mother's parents died 90 15



### days apart. My grandfather died of lung cancer 16



### on August 11th, and my grandm other died from an 17



### asthma attack on November 10th. At the time of 18



### my grandfather's death, he had an older sister 19



### and two aunts living. They would come North to 20



### visit him, and when they would come North, his 21



### older aunts would have to get him something to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### drink, because he just didn't have the strength 1



### to get up. Eighteen months later, my last 2



### grandmother died from cancer as well. 3



### Now, that's a part of my past. Let me 4



### tell you my future. I have a 2

- year

- old son, 5



### Royal IV, who I have with me here today. I also 6



### have three older children, and I am expecting my 7



### first granddaughter any day now. I have a 8



### younger brother with three kids, all in 9



### Steubenville. Many of my closest friends and 10



### relatives also live in Steubenville. 11



### I am thankful for the government 12



### regulation responsible for the $1.7

- billion 13



### Bechtel plant project, the Sammis plant in 14



### Stratton, Ohio, designed to decrease the air 15



### pollution. The problem is the job of the CEO and 16



### ADP at First Energy is to make money. Like any 17



### other business, the cheap er it is to make your 18



### product, the more profits you make. 19



### When you cut costs, you sometimes cut 20



### corners, and when you cut corners, something or 21



### someone has to suffer. In today's world, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### government regulations are viewed as jobs and 1



### wealth killers. 2



### I like to think that they are there to 3



### add the quality of life. More money doesn't 4



### always mean a better quality of life. I can 5



### still remember how sick my grandfather was in his 6



### last days after living in those conditions for so 7



### many years. 8



### Not only are good jo bs needed, but we 9



### also need clean air, water, and a healthy ozone 10



### layer, and as hard as we talk about we don't need 11



### to pass debt on to our kids, we don't need to 12



### pass a dirty planet on to them, either. 13



### In closing, I would like to say with the 14



### political cl imate as it is today, for the sake of 15



### our children, I pay the politicians. Don't play 16



### with the health of our environment with the 17



### recent disasters. Like the BP oil spill and the 18



### Japanese nuclear disaster, I would like to think 19



### that we need you guys more than ever. 20



### Thank you. 21



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### [Applause.] 1



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for coming from 2



### Ohio with your family too. 3



### Next, Doug Peters. 4



### MR. PETERS: Good afternoon. My name is 5



### Doug Peters. I served 5 years in the United 6



### States Marine Corps, and in those 5 years, I 7



### participated in both Afghanistan and Iraq 8



### invasions. 9



### I am here today to speak on behalf of 10



### Operation Free Veterans across America that 11



### believe that our nation's fossil fuel addiction 12



### and our contribution to climate change threaten 13



### our national security. 14



### We believe this proposal that will limit 15



### carbon pollution from new power plants is crucial 16



### to reducing threatens to this nation's security. 17



### The time I spent overseas, especially the 18



### time I spent in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the 19



### br oader Middle East serves as a wake

- up call. I 20



### realize that the manner in which America would 21



### have

-- I'm sorry. I realize the manner in which 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### American would have to interact with the world's 1



### underprivileged populations going forward had 2



### changed. 3



### New thr eats had emerged. New threats 4



### continue to emerge, unconventional

- type threats. 5



### One of those unconventional threats is climate 6



### change. In light of the proposed rule to limit 7



### carbon pollution from new power plants, I would 8



### like to address the threats that climate change 9



### poses to our national security. 10



### Climate change is such a viable threat 11



### that the Pentagon has already started to prepare 12



### contingencies for scenarios exacerbated by 13



### climate change, and it's focused on these issues 14



### in its quadrennial defense review, as does the 15



### CIA and State Department in their reviews and 16



### policies. 17



### According to the Pentagon, climate change 18



### along does not cause conflicts, but it makes 19



### already combustible situations much worse. 20



### Climate change is much different than 21



### traditiona l military threats, obviously. It is 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### what the military calls a threat multiplier. The 1



### effects of climate change will destabilize 2



### governments, turning fragile states into failed 3



### states, spark mass migrations of populations, and 4



### create refugee situations, increased conflicts 5



### over water and agricultural resources, and in the 6



### end, these situations can lead to safe havens to 7



### hide and recruit desperate members of refugee 8



### populations. 9



### I have seen firsthand how desperate 10



### people can become when they lack somethin g as 11



### simple as water, and as if anybody has tried to 12



### find a working water fountain in this building, 13



### you would know sometime inconvenient. 14



### During the lead up to the Iraqi invasion, 15



### I was briefly based in Bahrain. I will never 16



### forget the time when immigra nt workers from 17



### Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh came desperately 18



### begging to my Marines for water on 120

- degree

19



### plus day. These poor immigrant workers were 20



### being treated worse than livestock. 21



### I will never forget the desperation in 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### the workers' eyes and a decision and calculation 1



### I had to make as a sergeant to give away as much 2



### water as I thought I could without putting my 3



### Marines at risk. 4



### It turns out, it was a good decision, 5



### because those workers later provided intelligence 6



### on possible threats to my Mari nes and other 7



### service members stationed on that base. These 8



### desperate workers were being used by people who 9



### wish to know about the internal workings of the 10



### base in order to carry out a task. 11



### Bottom line, those workers could have 12



### easily turned to people w ho wished us harm, 13



### desperation, if they had not gotten some relief 14



### and a little bit of kindness from my Marines. 15



### What I want you to remember is people can 16



### do horrible things out of desperation, including 17



### turning to terrorists for help or fighting with 18



### nei ghboring populations that they would not 19



### normally fight. 20



### As crops dry up, temperatures change, and 21



### farmlands are flooded, people have to move to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### more sustainable lands, and this creates conflict 1



### for the people who already had the resources that 2



### come from those sustainable lands. 3



### For example, one of the instigating 4



### factors of the genocide in Darfur was reduced 5



### grazing and farmland. 6



### By 2050, there may be as many as 200 7



### million climate refugees across the world, which 8



### will destabilize nearby countries. 9



### Ind ia, for example, already built a 10



### 2,500

- mile fence along the border with Bangladesh 11



### to keep climate refugees out. Natural disasters 12



### will also increase the change in weather patterns 13



### and the intensity and frequency of storms. 14



### In 2011, floods in Pakistan, f or example, 15



### affected thousands of people, people the U.S. 16



### honestly does not want in such desperate 17



### situations. 18



### Whether future conflicts and crises are 19



### caused by drought, starvation, mass migration, or 20



### rising sea levels, the U.S. military will be 21



### asked to respond in one way or another, either 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### through forests or humanitarian assistance or 1



### both, and that is because the U.S. military is 2



### the only organization in the world that has the 3



### strength, the know

- how, and the resources to 4



### respond to conflicts or disaster

. 5



### This responsibility will be in addition 6



### to the preexisting wars and challenges the U.S. 7



### military already faces, effectually multiplying 8



### the burden on our troops. I believe one of the 9



### most misunderstood and underfelt aspects of the 10



### detriments and challe nges currently facing our 11



### military is the continuous deployment cycle. 12



### Now, the U.S. military will always step 13



### up. That's just what we do, but when troops are 14



### on their third, fourth, and fifth deployments to 15



### Afghanistan and previously Iraq, this cycle 16



### pl aces a tremendous fiscal and psychological 17



### burden on their troops and families. That burden 18



### will only be intensified if our military is 19



### forced to respond to threats posed and 20



### exacerbated by climate change. 21



### For this reason, implementation of the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### EPA's pro posed carbon pollution standards 1



### complements the military's efforts to mitigate 2



### the devastating effects of climate change. As a 3



### veteran and a member of Operation Free, I am 4



### proud to be here today in support of the EPA, an 5



### agency whose primary mission is t o protect 6



### American people. 7



### The EPA's efforts to encourage the 8



### development of clean, alternative sources of 9



### energy are imperative to our national security. 10



### Thank you. 11



### [Applause.] 12



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for your detailed 13



### testimony. That's very helpful. 14



### Thank you both. 15



### We are going to take another short break. 16



### We are going to go off record until we have 17



### other speakers. 18



### [Recess taken from 4:01 to 4:07 p.m.] 19



### MR. HARVEY: Let's go back on the record. 20



### Our next speaker is Jennifer Janssen. If 21



### you could spell your name? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MS. JANSSEN: Yes. Hi. My name is 1



### Jennifer, J

- E

- N

- N

- I

- F

- E

- R, Janssen, J

- A

- N

- S

- S

- E

2



### N. 3



### So I am going to speak in strong support 4



### of limits to carbon pollution for new coal

- fired 5



### power plants and hopefully existing coal

- fired 6



### power plants soon and then hopefully everything 7



### else after that. 8



### I work at the National Wildlife 9



### Federation in the Great Lakes Regional Center, 10



### but I am really speaking as myself. So I just 11



### wanted to share something that I've gone through 12



### in the last year in how it's come to thinking 13



### about carbon pollution and standards that the EPA 14



### has worked so hard to get. 15



### I studied at the School of Natural 16



### Resources at the University of Michigan, and I 17



### understand how increasing extreme weather causes 18



### more runoff, causes more poll ution in our lakes, 19



### plus the increased evaporation, and all of this 20



### stuff with pollution and impacts of wildlife, 21



### which I spent my days mobilizing people to 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### understand climate through wildlife and really 1



### get impasse, things they love. 2



### I get all of that, b ut I had to put my 3



### head around this health impact thing. How does 4



### carbon connect to health? I didn't really get 5



### it. I think the very first time I was mobilized 6



### -- not mobilized

-- got an awareness of the 7



### environment was as a 3

- year

- old, and my mother 8



### re minds me there is a drought. There is this big 9



### field behind our house, and I was so nervous 10



### about the drought. 11



### I think that Lisa Van Susteren who is a 12



### psychiatrist, psychologist, who works at NWF on 13



### our board, is speaking in the other room right 14



### now abou t the mental health impacts of climate 15



### change. So you can talk about that later. 16



### But as a 3

- year

- old, I saw that drought. 17



### So when you're seeing this extreme weather, I 18



### understand how it's impacting wildlife with 19



### floods and drought and habitat changes. I didn't 20



### get that health impact until recently when I was 21



### at the mercury hearing in Chicago, just last 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### year. 1



### I was listening to someone testify about 2



### how it impacts people who have respiratory 3



### disease. They are going to end up in the 4



### hospital more frequ ently. I thought, oh, people 5



### with respiratory disease, that's me. I never 6



### thought about it. I'm young and healthy, but 7



### actually not. I have degenerative respiratory 8



### disease that my mother also has. I thought, oh, 9



### okay, now I get it. The ozone days, t he increase 10



### in pollen counts, you know, if you have all this 11



### stuff draining from here, it's terrible for your 12



### lungs. I barely have allergies, but I'm on 13



### allergy medicine to protect my lungs. 14



### So I just wanted to come and say I am a 15



### person. I am who they are talking about, and my 16



### mother, they are talking about even more, because 17



### she's 65. She's had the same hereditary disease 18



### for longer, and so she has to have the air

19



### conditioning on. Whenever she visits her family 20



### in Michigan, she gets sick, because the ir windows 21



### are open. More air conditioning means more 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### climate change, which is terrible, but it's 1



### hotter. And with allergies and pollen getting 2



### worse, she stays inside with her air conditioning 3



### on. 4



### The other thing about increasing the use 5



### of electricity , but she needs to be outside. I 6



### need to be outside. She needs to be using her 7



### kayaks. She needs to be able to mow the lawn. 8



### She needs to be out walking. She needs to be

-- 9



### she needs to stay healthy and live longer and not 10



### get an infection that could kill her, but she 11



### can't, because when the air is bad, she can't go 12



### outside. When the pollen counts are higher, she 13



### can't go outside. 14



### When I'm older, that's going to be my 15



### life as well, which is really scary to me. Even 16



### now, I live in Ann Arbor, but I'm the only person 17



### in my house who has an air conditioner in their 18



### window, and it protects my lungs from the air

-- 19



### and, you know, an outdoorsy person. 20



### So that's sort of my progression. I 21



### really understand that connection between what 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### you're trying to do to protect public health and 1



### my life and my love of the outdoors, that we all 2



### need to live outside not only to feel that 3



### connection with labor which is so healthy for our 4



### lives and healthy to understand how we're 5



### connected with wildlife that are showing sign s 6



### and stuff that's going to affect us too, but it's 7



### also healthy and important for our lungs, for our 8



### health, and we can't do that if it's going to get 9



### worse as pollen counts go up, as extreme weather 10



### and droughts make it harder to be outside. 11



### Thank you. 12



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: Thank you. 13



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much for 14



### sharing your story with us. 15



### [Applause.] 16



### MR. HARVEY: We have

-- is Sarah Meservey 17



### here yet? 18



### If you could start by spelling your name. 19



### MS. MESERVEY: Sarah Meservey, M

- e

- s

- e

- r

20



### v

- e

- y . I'm a high school math teacher. I live 21



### in Arlington, Virginia. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### My 16

- year

- old son recently testified in 1



### front of the Virginia State Corporation 2



### Commission, and he is in his environmental club, 3



### and he represented them. I told him to make a 4



### speech, lik e I tried to do, and he didn't, but he 5



### made visuals, the way kids like to in high 6



### school. And he asked me to bring them along, and 7



### so I have. 8



### He talked about

-- he told he's loved 9



### science. He told all the science, about the CO 2 

### , 10



### and what's happening aft er 600,000 years and how 11



### frightening it is to kids his age. 12



### This, by the way

-- I'm a math teacher, 13



### and this makes awesome data for regressions, 14



### unfortunately, and kids in high school always 15



### ask, you know, "What's everyone doing about it 16



### when they see thi s?" And, you know, I can say 17



### almost nothing. It's hard to say that, but this 18



### is what he talked about. And he talked about 19



### weather

- related disasters in Northern Virginia. 20



### We see them all the time. Every other day, we're 21



### talking about, you know, somethi ng new that's 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### never happened. 1



### This is where his school golf team 2



### practices nearby, never seen flooding like that. 3



### I'm sure a lot of the people who have those cars 4



### there were a little surprised. 5



### He was really at the meeting at the 6



### commission to talk abou t Virginia and their 7



### resources that they have for wind energy, and I'm 8



### not sure what

-- I guess this is the capacity 9



### they have. You can see Virginia is not doing 10



### anything about that. 11



### And his

-- you know, at the end, he was 12



### really

-- he found these graphi cs about what 13



### Virginia is doing, and it's really

-- he's 14



### pointing out

-- well, New Jersey is third up 15



### there, so Virginia, you know, we could be doing 16



### something. We have as much sun as they do, but 17



### what he really

-- what really moved me is at the 18



### end, he s aid, you know, why can't

-- well, he 19



### asked specifically why can't we be doing this in 20



### Virginia. Why do we have to be bringing down the 21



### national average? That was his question to the 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### commission. 1



### And I think it's relevant to our country. 2



### You know, we may not be down at the very bottom, 3



### but we are creating some of the biggest problem, 4



### and, you know, why can't we be our innovative 5



### selves? Why can't we be up there at the top? 6



### He was really so eloquent. I would have 7



### liked to have brought him here, but he's taking 8



### his SOLs with my other son

-- has traveled a 9



### distance to be here and represent our family. 10



### I know it's out of fashion to talk about 11



### being a good steward of the earth and doing the 12



### right thing and being ethical. That's not

-- 13



### it's about making mon ey now, jobs, that kind of 14



### thing. Well, you know, it's an amazing 15



### confluence right now of jobs. You know, doing 16



### the right thing is coming together with being a 17



### good steward. 18



### I just keep reading about it. There's 19



### study after study showing us that invest ments in 20



### the renewables can create an unparalleled job 21



### growth, and, you know, all these countries are 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### jumping on the band wagon. 1



### Virginia is left way behind, and we need 2



### the government to do something about it, because 3



### it's not going to happen in Virginia if you guys 4



### don't do something. I mean, nothing is going to 5



### happen, really. 6



### You know, we're in this fix now because 7



### we didn't make individuals in industries pay for 8



### the pollution. If I like drive down the highway 9



### and throw trash out my window, I mean, I'm going 10



### to get in trouble, aren't I? I mean, why are 11



### these companies allowed to pollute as much as 12



### they do? 13



### And then on top of it, insult to injury, 14



### you know, we have to pay massive subsidies to 15



### them. It's real bizarre. I mean, there's a lot 16



### of just normal people like me who are not radical 17



### at all who are upset with that. 18



### In closing, my principal at my school 19



### always says no excuses. He says that all the 20



### time, and he means, you know, don't tell me the 21



### kids are lazy, inspire them. You know, don't 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### com e up with 5,000 reasons why the kids in your 1



### class couldn't pass the exams, you know, do 2



### something about it. And he's always there with 3



### resources for us, but he always says no excuses. 4



### And that's what I'm saying. You know, we 5



### need results from our gover nment, and we need to 6



### bring down the level of CO 2 

### . We need to bring it 7



### down drastically, actually, and we need to do it 8



### like yesterday. 9



### So I think this agency is tasked with 10



### protecting the environment, and ordinary citizens 11



### like me expect it to do its jo b. And we're 12



### starting to think that there might be some hope 13



### here. So, no matter what the pressure, we have 14



### to say no excuses. You need to put forth and 15



### enhance the strongest carbon pollution standard 16



### that could come about. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MR. HARVEY: Tha nk you very much for your 19



### eloquent talk. 20



### [Applause.] 21



### MR. HARVEY: We will be happy to take 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### anything that you would like to give us. 1



### MS. MESERVEY: Oh, okay. 2



### MR. HARVEY: We can enter it in the 3



### docket or whatever you'd like to do. We can take 4



### a hard co py or electronically, whichever you 5



### prefer. 6



### MS. MESERVEY: Thank you. 7



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Our next speaker is 8



### Susana Heinitz. 9



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: If you would like 10



### your son's items in the record

-- 11



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah, we could also

-- 12



### MR. KETCHAM

- COL WILL:

-- we could also. 13



### Those are your only copy, but you can submit them 14



### in writing later too. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Or

-- yeah. 16



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: Up until what date? 17



### MR. HARVEY: The 25th of June. 18



### MS. MESERVEY: Okay. 19



### MR. HARVEY: Susanna Heinitz. 20



### MS. HILDEBRAND: Is it possible you are 21



### reading the wrong last name? 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: H

- E

- I

- N

- I

- T

- Z? 1



### MS. HILDEBRAND: The first name? 2



### MR. HARVEY: S

- U

- S

- A

- N

- A. 3



### MS. HILDEBRAND: That's my name. My last 4



### name is Hildebrand. 5



### MR. HARVEY: Well, would you like to 6



### speak? 7



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: You did sign up? 8



### MR. HARVEY: Did you sign up to speak? 9



### MS. HILDEBRAND: I did sign up. 10



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: And they told you 11



### to come here, right? 12



### MS. HILDEBRAND: What's that? 13



### MR. KETCHAM

- COLWILL: And they told you 14



### t o come in this room? 15



### MS. HILDEBRAND: Yes. 16



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. Well, let's go ahead. 17



### You can start by spelling your name 18



### correctly for us. We'll make sure that we'll get 19



### you in the record. 20



### MS. HILDEBRAND: My name is Susana 21



### Hildebrand, first name S

- U

- S

- A

- N

- A, last name, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Hildebrand, H

- I

- L

- D

- E

- B

- R

- A

- N

- D. 1



### I am the chief engineer for the Texas 2



### Commission on Environmental Quality, and I 3



### appreciate the opportunity to provide comments on 4



### EPA's proposed carbon pollution standards for new 5



### power plants. 6



### The TC Q will be submitting extensive 7



### written comments on the proposal, and in the 5 8



### minutes I have here, I will speak about TCQ's 9



### major concerns with the rules. There are two 10



### main points. One, there is no apparent need for 11



### this rule. The second, that if EPA d oes not

-- 12



### does proceed, there are multiple aspects that are 13



### inconsistent with Section 111 of the Clean Air 14



### Act of the EPA policy. 15



### The EPA has not adequately demonstrated 16



### the need for the proposed rule. The EPA states 17



### that the proposed rule will limit GH G emissions 18



### from the largest stationary source category and 19



### that it is necessary to protect against projected 20



### climate change impacts and risks. However, the 21



### EPA then posits there will be no costs or benefit 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### associated with the rule, and that the rule will 1



### not result in any emission reductions. 2



### The Clean Air Act says that the 3



### Administrator, quote, "shall include a category 4



### of sources in such list if in his judgment, it 5



### causes or contributes significantly to air 6



### pollution which may reasonably be anticipated to 7



### endanger public health or welfare." Yet, if one 8



### were to believe EPA's analysis that no new coal

9



### fired will be built through 2013 without carbon 10



### capture and storage, CCS, how can one reasonably 11



### anticipate that no new sources and no new 12



### emissions from t hose sources could reasonably 13



### endanger public health or welfare? 14



### A number of the aspects of the proposed 15



### is inconsistent with the Federal Clean Air Act. 16



### First, EPA must conduct a new endangerment and 17



### cause and contribute finding for this newly 18



### created so urce category and may not rely on the 19



### 2009 finding for sources of GHG. EPA proposes to 20



### create a new category by combining two existing 21



### and separate categories under the NSPS rules, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### specifically for the purpose of setting standards 1



### for CO 2 

### only and no othe r pollutants. 2



### The EPA cannot rely on previous findings 3



### of endangerment and cause and contribute from 4



### coal

- fired EGEs, because those previous findings 5



### were based no non

- EGE air pollutants that have 6



### very different characteristics than GHG. GHG are 7



### unique i n their scope and air quality impacts. 8



### Further, the proposed standard is to 9



### limit emissions of CO 2 

### from a fraction of the 10



### sources of GHG worldwide, with specific 11



### contribution to climate change has not been 12



### determined. 13



### Another major concern is that the Fe deral 14



### Clean Air Act Section 111(b)(5) clearly 15



### stipulates that the U.S. EPA is not authorized to 16



### require any particular control

-- particular 17



### testimony

-- sorry

-- particular technological 18



### system of continuous emission reduction to comply 19



### with any new sourc e standard of pollution. The 20



### Federal Clean Air Act definition of a 21



### technological system of continuous emission 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### reduction includes production or operational 1



### processes that are inherently low pollutant, non

2



### polluting, and natural gas

- fired combined cycle 3



### un its clearly mean this definition. The EPA is 4



### circumventing the clear intent of the Section 5



### 111(b)(5) by setting this standard based on 6



### emissions from natural gas combined cycle units. 7



### In addition, the EPA's proposal to create 8



### a new source category based solely on equipment 9



### function without any consideration for unit 10



### design or fuel type is contrary to NSPS precedent 11



### and previous case law. 12



### The EPA is required to consider 13



### economical and technological feasibility when 14



### setting standard performance under Secti on 111. 15



### The EPA acknowledges that the 1,000 pound 16



### megawatt CO 2 

### standard is not technologically 17



### feasible for other types of units without CCS, 18



### yet there has not been a single full

- scale 19



### commercial demonstration of CCS on a coal

- fired 20



### power plant. Not only has the EPA failed to 21



### demonstrate the feasibility of CCS on new coal

- 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### fired EGUs, they acknowledge that CCS is not 1



### economically feasible for a new coal

- fired EGU 2



### without government

- supported funding. 3



### The EPA should not, and cannot, base 4



### regulation on futu re subsidies provided by other 5



### Federal agencies. 6



### EPA cannot guarantee that such funding 7



### will be available for output in the future. 8



### EPA claims they are complying with 9



### Executive Orders 12855 and 13563 by claiming the 10



### rule will have no noticeable complianc e cost, 11



### because, in essence, there will be no coal

- fired 12



### EGUs built in the future based on the prediction 13



### of low natural gas fuel prices. This flawed 14



### rationale based on EPA's predicted future 15



### economic scenario doesn't justify the EPA's 16



### failure to perform a proper economic analysis. 17



### The EPA's analysis for Executive Order 18



### 13211 is also based on the same premise, 19



### essentially a simple statement that the rule has 20



### no notable impact, energy supply distribution or 21



### use. Further, the EPA has not conducted an 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### adequ ate analysis of the potential impact to 1



### reliability that results from the scenario where 2



### natural gas prices are much higher than the 3



### projected

-- than projected, and new coal

- fired 4



### generation is no longer an option for the 5



### electric power industry. 6



### Fuel pr ices

-- 7



### MR. HARVEY: Your time has expired. 8



### MS. HILDEBRAND: Okay. Two sentences. 9



### Fuel prices have historically fluctuated 10



### over time and equal with the new drilling 11



### techniques that make greater supplies of natural 12



### gas available. There are no guarantee s that fuel 13



### prices will not fluctuate in the future. If EPA 14



### predicts that for natural

-- if EPA predictions 15



### for natural gas prices were wrong, as have been 16



### shown in the past, and takes away other fuel 17



### options by establishing rules to force the 18



### electric po wer generation sector to construct 19



### power plants that are the EPA's facilities of 20



### choice, the EPA is not only setting energy policy 21



### for the country but is also endangering reliable 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### and affordable electric power for the public. 1



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for yo ur 2



### testimony. 3



### MS. HILDEBRAND: Thank you. 4



### MR. HARVEY: Our next speakers are Erin 5



### O'Sullivan and Melinda Erdberg. 6



### Let's start with Ms. O'Sullivan. If you 7



### could spell your name first? 8



### MS. O'SULLIVAN: Sure. It's Erin, E

- R

- I

9



### N, O'Sullivan, O, apostroph e, S

- U

- L

- L

- I

- V

- A

- N. 10



### Good afternoon. My name is Erin, and I 11



### live in Washington, D.C., and I am speaking today 12



### on behalf of the Moms Clean Air Force. 13



### We are community of more than 52,000 moms 14



### and dads who care about clean air and kids' 15



### health. We read th e health research on air 16



### pollution, and we have learned a lot about the 17



### health effects of breathing dirty air. We know 18



### that in its many forms, air pollution has been 19



### linked to the major health problems of our time. 20



### We know that

-- we see that asthma atta cks, 21



### heart attacks, heart disease, stroke, blood 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### cancer, premature death, emergency room visits, 1



### hospital admissions and more

-- all of these 2



### health problems have been linked to air 3



### pollution. 4



### Many of these problems harm our children 5



### in particular. We at Moms Clean Air Force think 6



### that's unacceptable. 7



### I have with me and wish to submit the 8



### comments of more than 8,000 members of the Moms 9



### Clean Air Force in support of the proposed carbon 10



### pollution standard. These moms, dads, and 11



### grandparents know that prot ecting our children 12



### means preventing pollution. 13



### Carbon pollution is disrupting our 14



### planet's climate, causing temperatures to rise. 15



### These rise in temperatures increase formation of 16



### ground

- level ozone or smog, which triggers 17



### asthma. This is just one of th e many health 18



### impacts that people from

-- in a warming world. 19



### After reviewing massive amounts of volume 20



### of research by leading climate scientists on smog 21



### formation and other climate impacts, the EPA has 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### found that carbon pollution is a threat to 1



### Americans . I am here to assert that carbon 2



### pollution is a health threat, especially for our 3



### children. 4



### I am not a mom, but I am a cousin, a 5



### friend, and a neighbor, and too many of my 6



### friends and family are terrified to let their 7



### children play outside in the summer . Too many 8



### carry inhalers, and too many spend their days 9



### breathing the telltale wheeze that ends in the 10



### ER. And my family has been very fortunate. 11



### Others are not so lucky. 12



### Take Michelle Murphy. She has two 13



### children with asthma. She lives in Massachus etts 14



### where wind currents carry pollutants from power 15



### plants, many of which are not in her State, and 16



### her community is formed in smog. 17



### Her daughter, Mia, has such severe asthma 18



### that last year, blood vessels in her eyes burst 19



### from the coughing. Mia regular ly has to take 5

- 20



### day courses of steroids for the asthma in which 21



### causes nightmares, outbursts, and uncontrollable 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### tears. 1



### Rachel says, and I quote

-- I'd like to 2



### quote

-- "Cleaning up air pollution from coal

3



### fired power plants would have tremendous impact 4



### on my children's health," or take Chandra 5



### Baldwin

- Woods whose son, Jovante, had a severe 6



### asthma attack almost 2 years ago in Ohio and died 7



### at the age of 16. He was one of more than 3,000 8



### people who die of asthma every year. Jovante was 9



### an athlete who had suffered from asthma since he 10



### was a baby. His sudden attack, which led to his 11



### death, is a horror to contemplate. Chandra says, 12



### and I quote, "Air pollution causes asthma attacks 13



### and can short the lives of those who you love 14



### most." 15



### Our blog is full of st ories from Chandra, 16



### Michelle, and so many others. We need to do 17



### everything we can to prevent children like 18



### Jovante from dying, to prevent the severe asthma 19



### attacks, to prevent the damage smog causes our 20



### children's lungs. 21



### Reducing carbon pollution is a cr itical 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### step towards protecting their health. Our 1



### electric utilities claim that they have given us 2



### cheap electricity, but for Jovante's mom, it 3



### could not have been more expensive. 4



### Moms have a lot of experience cleaning up 5



### messes. They know that most chil dren won't clean 6



### up their own messes, and neither will our own 7



### power plants. Our children deserve a well

8



### regulated electric power industry that produces 9



### electricity from clean sources without 10



### destabilizing the climate, increasing smog 11



### levels, and associat ed respiratory health 12



### problems, and causing other grave effects of 13



### global warming. 14



### It's the EPA's job to set the rules that 15



### will give us clean and safe power industry for 16



### all Americans and especially our children. 17



### Please finalize the carbon pollution sta ndard for 18



### the sake of our children, and thank you for your 19



### time. 20



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you for your 21



### testimony. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Melinda Erdberg. 1



### [Applause.] 2



### MS. ERDBERG: Well, my name is Melinda 3



### Erdberg, and I live in Falls Church, Virginia. I 4



### am a member of the Sierra Club based in 5



### Alexandria, Virginia. I have probably been a 6



### member of the Sierra Club for many, many years, 7



### and I think it's because I became aware very 8



### early. 9



### Way back in the 1970s, I was living in 10



### California, in Long Beach, working for an 11



### environmental engineering firm, and then I had an 12



### opportunity to move to Reston to their office 13



### there. And I thought, "Well, that would be kind 14



### of cool." Well, I loved it. I loved Reston, and 15



### I said, "Can I move here?" And everything has 16



### worked out, and I was fine, and I love the area. 17



### But then

-- I love riding my bike. So 18



### I'm riding my bike one day, right in the 19



### beginning of when I got there, and I had trouble 20



### breathing. I had never had that problem before. 21



### So it was a real problem. So I kept hoping, 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### well, it w ill go away, it will go away, and 1



### breathing as much air as I could, but none of 2



### that helped. It happened for days and days. 3



### I had not been to a doctor in a long 4



### time, but I realized I needed to see a doctor. 5



### And the doctor said I had exercise

- induced as thma 6



### and recommended that I use an inhaler, which 7



### helped quite a bit, and then

-- it's funny. At 8



### the same time I learned about the connection 9



### between asthma and air quality and that Northern 10



### Virginia had one of the highest ratios of asthma 11



### on the East Coa st. 12



### I'm fortunate, because then I took a 13



### class in Pilates. So in addition to the inhaler, 14



### I was using Pilates breathing methods where you 15



### are breathing through the nose and out through 16



### the mouth, and that helped quite a bit, to an 17



### extent. 18



### Then this year in March, I started having 19



### a slight wheezing problem. I had never had that 20



### before. It was really annoying, but it didn't 21



### keep me from making a trip to Richmond in March. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Shortly after arriving, however, I 1



### noticed the wheezing had gotten a lot worse, an d 2



### that's when I learned, amazingly, that Richmond 3



### had been named the Asthma Capital of the East 4



### Coast. Yes, it is. I think so. 5



### And this time, the Pilates breathing 6



### techniques did not help that much. When I 7



### returned home to Falls Church, I continued to 8



### have the wheezing and breathing problem, and it 9



### got worse. So I saw a doctor once again. It was 10



### recommended that I go back on the inhaler, and so 11



### today, I continue to use the inhaler, but it's 12



### only one alternative. 13



### I am also taking

-- took a class in 14



### so mething called "Buteyko Breathing," which 15



### teaches you more about how to breathe through 16



### your nose only, not your mouth, and to breath 17



### slowly. Well, there's a lot to it, so it takes 18



### time and effort, but I think it's

-- I am hoping 19



### it's going to help. 20



### So, yes, I can ride my bike, but I'm also 21



### concerned about the air, especially for young 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### people. They're not used to air that has a lot 1



### of stuff in it. So I could either stay around 2



### here or I could move to a place where they don't 3



### have the effects of burning coal and oil. I 4



### don't know where that can be these days. Or, to 5



### keep me in this area, we could move toward solar 6



### and wind power, much more expressively, and I 7



### hope that we do. 8



### I appreciate this opportunity to speak 9



### with you. 10



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much for your 11



### time and speaking with us. 12



### [Applause.] 13



### MR. HARVEY: Our next speaker is Leslie 14



### Fields. 15



### If there's anyone else who would like to 16



### speak and has not, check with the gentleman in 17



### the corner, and he can put you on the list, but 18



### we're about to wrap up. 19



### Ms. Fields, you may be our wrap

- up. 20



### MS. FIELDS: Okay. I'm a wrap

- up. 21



### Great. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### MR. HARVEY: So whenever you are ready. 1



### MS. FIELDS: Okay, thank you. Good 2



### afternoon. My name is Leslie Fields, and I am 3



### the Environmental Justice and Community 4



### P artnership's director at the Sierra Club here in 5



### Washington, D.C., and I really appreciate this 6



### opportunity to testify. And I want to thank you 7



### all for having this hearing here in D.C. as 8



### opposed to Crystal City. Thank you for doing 9



### that. It really has made it just much more 10



### convenient for folks, and that facility is really 11



### nice out there, but it's great that we're here. 12



### You have no doubt gathered by now that 13



### the Sierra Club strongly supports the EPA's 14



### proposed carbon pollution standards for existing 15



### po wer plants. This proposed standard, as you 16



### know, which only applies to power plants built in 17



### the future is flexible and would help minimize 18



### carbon pollution due to deployment of the same 19



### types of modern technology and steps that the 20



### power companies have a lready taken to build the 21



### next

- generation power plants. 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### Currently, there is no uniform national 1



### limit on the amount of carbon pollution policy to 2



### emit. I would like to touch on what this rule 3



### means for communities of color and disadvantaged 4



### Americans. 5



### A s you well know, no doubt, among the 6



### scientists and epidemiologists, that these groups 7



### are disproportionately suffering from the effects 8



### of airborne pollution in this country, and I'm 9



### sure as you heard all day long that carbon 10



### pollution means increased tem peratures, hotter 11



### summers, and therefore more smog. Smog is 12



### pervasive and a dangerous pollutant that 13



### endangers millions of Americans, but it's a 14



### particular problem for those suffering from 15



### asthma. 16



### What does this mean for communities that 17



### suffer from envi ronmental justice? Latinos, 18



### African Americans, Native Americans, Asian 19



### Americans, and poor Americans far too often get 20



### pollution from this country's astonishingly 21



### levels of energy consumption. This is a legacy 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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### of discriminatory citing racism and economic

-- a 1



### lot of African Americans and people of color live 2



### in neighborhoods with much higher exposure of air 3



### pollution of every type. 4



### Nationwide, about 71 percent of African 5



### Americans and 80 percent of Hispanic Americans 6



### live in areas that fail to meet one o r more EPA 7



### air quality standards as compared to about 57 8



### percent of Caucasian Americans. African 9



### Americans have the highest number of asthma 10



### attacks, while ethnic groups and African 11



### Americans from age 5 to 24 are five times more 12



### likely to die of asthma th an Caucasian Americans. 13



### All of this coupled with the fact that 14



### black and Hispanic people are less likely to have 15



### health insurance and access to treatment and 16



### preventative care. 17



### Additionally, beyond the effects the 18



### planet will have on a number of asthma c ases and 19



### other air pollution sicknesses, climate change 20



### particularly challenges the poor inner

- city 21



### communities, heat waves experienced most 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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- 3376 364



### profoundly in the inner cities and metropolitan 1



### areas of disproportionate affect Latino 2



### Americans, African American s, and other people of 3



### color. 4



### My own late uncle suffered greatly 5



### respiratory problems during the Chicago heat wave 6



### of 1995. He was hospitalized at Cook County 7



### Hospital, which is now closed, and it really 8



### affected his quality of life. And he passed away 9



### a few years ago. It was a terrible, terrible 10



### time, and he didn't have health insurance. 11



### Also, in economic terms, work 12



### productivity suffers when people with respiratory 13



### problems are exacerbated by the heat waves. He 14



### could no longer work because of his as thma during 15



### that heat wave. Also, children in a school, 16



### because of asthma attacks or other respiratory 17



### problems, their parents will miss out on work. 18



### The National Security Community actually 19



### calls this "threat multiplier." The multiplied 20



### threats of not having health insurance or access 21



### to health care and also having to miss out on 22OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., #810, Washington D.C. 20036

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- 3376 Toll Free: (888) 445

- 3376 365



### work, having to juggle higher energy as opposed 1



### to

-- or energy's cost are threat multipliers in 2



### these communities. 3



### And so the communities that we work with 4



### in our program and around the country, everyone 5



### you have heard, we are all very, very 6



### appreciative to Administrator Jackson and EPA 7



### that these standards are being promulgated, and 8



### they mean a great deal to a cleaner, safer future 9



### for children and generations to come. 10



### I wan t to really thank the EPA for their 11



### work in proposing these historic standards and 12



### urge their swift and speedy implementation. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much for your 15



### testimony. 16



### [Applause.] 17



### MR. HARVEY: Do we have anyone else? 18



### No? Okay. I think we can declare the 19



### hearing, at least this overflow portion, 20



### concluded, so thank you all. 21



### [Hearing adjourned at 4:40 p.m.] 22