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FIELD HEARING TO EXAMINE

FEDERAL FOOD AND NUTRITION

ASSISTANCE PROGRAM

FIELD HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, 

NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

APRIL 10, 2007

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.agriculture.senate.gov 

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

TOM HARKIN, Iowa, Chairman 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont 

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota 

MAX BAUCUS, Montana 

BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas 

DEBBIE A. STABENOW, Michigan 

E. BENJAMIN NELSON, Nebraska 

KEN SALAZAR, Colorado 

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio 

ROBERT P. CASEY, Jr., Pennsylvania 

AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota 

SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia 

RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana 

THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi 

MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota 

MICHEAL D. CRAPO, Idaho 

JOHN THUNE, South Dakota 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa

MARK HALVERSON, Majority Staff Director 

ROBERT E. STURM, Chief Clerk 

MARTHA SCOTT POINDEXTER, Minority Staff Director 

VERNIE HUBERT, Minority General Counsel 

(II) 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

HEARING(S):

Field Hearing to Examine Federal Food and Nutrition Assistance Program .... 1

Tuesday, April 10, 2007

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS 

Chambliss, Hon. Saxby, a U.S. Senator from Georgia ......................................... 1

Panel I 

Carter, Clarence, Deputy Administrator, Food Stamp Program, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Washington, DC, on behalf of Nancy Johner, Undersecretary, U.S. Department of Agriculture ............................................................. 4

Panel II 

Essig, Alan, Executive Director, Georgia Budget and Policy Institute, Atlanta, 

Georgia .................................................................................................................. 16

Harvey, Mary Dean, Division Director, Division of Family and Children Services, Atlanta, Georgia ........................................................................................... 14

Spicer, Taquana, Clayton County, Georgia ........................................................... 18

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Johner, Hon. Nancy .......................................................................................... 26

Essig, Alan ........................................................................................................ 37

Harvey, Mary Dean .......................................................................................... 47

Spicer, Taquana ................................................................................................ 52

DOCUMENT(S) SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

Georgia Department of Education, prepared statement ...................................... 56

The Center for Pan Asian Community Services, Inc., prepared statement ........ 57

(1)

FIELD HEARING TO EXAMINE 

FEDERAL FOOD AND NUTRITION 

ASSISTANCE PROGRAM 

Tuesday, April 10, 2007

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, 

NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY, 

Atlanta, Georgia 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., at the Atlanta Community Food Bank, Hon. Saxby Chambliss, presiding. 

Present or submitting a statement: Senator Chambliss. 

STATEMENT HON. SAXBY CHAMBLISS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

GEORGIA 

Senator CHAMBLISS. This hearing will come to order. And I want 

to welcome all of you as we discuss the Federal Food and Nutrition 

Assistance Programs that are due to be reauthorized in the Farm 

Bill. 

First of all, I want to thank Bill Bolling and his great staff here 

from the Atlanta Community Food Bank for hosting us. Bill is just 

an amazing guy that I have gotten to know very well over the last 

several years and just does not only a terrific job right here in the 

metro Atlanta area but just literally all over the southeast. And he 

and I were talking downstairs and I had the opportunity to meet 

a number of the other directors from around the state of food 

banks, and to all of you I want to say, first of all, welcome here, 

but thank you for what you do to make sure that those folks who 

are needy folks throughout our state are getting the advantages 

that they would not get otherwise and getting nutritious meals 

that they simply would not get otherwise if it were not for you and 

the many, many hundreds, hundreds and thousands of volunteers 

that work in these organizations throughout the state. So for that 

I say thank you. 

Food banks play an important role in the greater Atlanta community to ensure Georgia’s families receive the food they need. The 

staff here has been very generous with their time and efforts to organize our visit and we are truly grateful. And this is my second 

visit here to the Atlanta Food Bank. I thought I was going to come 

by the first time and maybe get me a cold muffin and a Coca-Cola 

out of the vending machine and that would be my, you know, my 

breakfast this morning, and, gosh, I walked back here in the back 

to see the operation that Bill has and it is just truly amazing. The 

Lord is not only looking over this place here, but I think the Lord 

2

is back there working 7 days a week to make sure this happens. 

It is just a great facility. Nutrition is an important yet often overlooked component of the Farm Bill. However, the nutrition programs are all well known in Georgia. I appreciate the bipartisan 

approach that the Senate Agriculture Committee has taken on nutrition issues in the past, and I am confident that both sides of the 

aisle will continue to work together as we craft this year’s Farm 

Bill. 

And let me just say up front my dear friend and colleague Senator Tom Harkin, who is Chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, really intended to be here and regrets that he couldn’t be 

here this morning. Tom and I have rescheduled this hearing—I 

think this is the third time that we had it scheduled to accommodate both of our schedules because he truly wanted to see not only 

the operation here but obviously wanted to hear the testimony as 

we move forward into the Farm Bill. 

Unfortunately, at the eleventh hour before we got out for the 

Easter break, the majority leader set the schedule for this week, 

and today, this morning, Tom is the author of the Stem Cell Research Bill on the Democratic side and that bill is on the floor and 

he had absolutely no control over it. So he hates he cannot be here, 

but he has sent a member of his staff down here, Derek Miller, who 

is with us. Derek, thank you very much for coming and representing Tom. Our staffs, as well as the members of the Senate 

Agriculture Committee work in a bipartisan spirit. I wish I could 

say that always happens on the floor of the Senate from every 

standpoint, but the Senate Ag Committee has always been very bipartisan, and now whether we are talking about commodities or 

conservation or the nutrition title, it is truly farmers and ranchers 

across America and it is people, when it comes to the nutrition 

title, that we represent, not a political party. Derek here has 

worked very closely with our staff over several years, and I truly 

do appreciate the working relationship that we share, especially on 

nutrition issues. 

Our nutrition assistance programs play a key role in ensuring 

that needy Americans have access to the food they need to lead 

healthy, productive lives. I know from the schoolteachers in my 

family, which is my wife as well as my daughter, the importance 

of good nutrition, especially for our children’s development. Moreover, the nutrition programs increase purchasing power for food 

and distribution of U.S. farm products which helps farmers and 

rural America. 

Finally, food assistance programs are an important part of this 

country’s safety net. Not long ago our Nation witnessed the Food 

Stamp’s Program—Food Stamp Program’s effective emergency response to evacuees from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, including 

the assistance given to evacuees who sought shelter and relief right 

here in our home state of Georgia. The U.S. food assistance programs are good for families, good for farmers, and good for America. 

Nutrition programs have been and continue to be an important 

part of the Farm Bill. Under the nutrition title, the Food Stamp 

Program will receive a large share of the Committee’s attention because it not only helps by providing food and emergency aid, it 

3

helps America’s needy families on their path to independence and 

self-sufficiency. Through the fiscal year 2006, 1 out of every 10 

Georgians participated in the Food Stamp Program, which generated a Federal investment of over $1 billion for the Georgia economy. In the 10 years since welfare reform was passed by Congress 

and signed by President Clinton, fewer families received cash welfare and more families are working, exactly what we wanted to see 

in our great country. 

Program administration has also greatly improved. During the 

past 5 years while average monthly participation increased to a 

near historical high, the combined error rates of overpayments and 

underpayments fell to a historical low. 

However, we still have room to improve. For example, program 

modernization should be encouraged to allow participants and administrators to utilize on-line technologies. Increased implementation of modern technologies will bring much needed efficiencies to 

the program, allow hardworking Americans to stay at work and not 

make so many visits to the food stamp office, and allow administrators to improve customer service, case management and program 

accuracy. 

In addition, there are some aspects of the Food Stamp Program 

that may reduce working families’ ability to escape the cycle of poverty. The law encourages welfare families to enter the workforce 

and begin to save money. However, food stamp asset rules conflict 

with families’ abilities to save for their future. The asset limit of 

$2,000 for most food stamp recipients was set more than 20 years 

ago. When indexed for inflation, the asset limit would be almost 

$4,000 today. A higher asset limit may help families buildup savings in order to achieve financial independence and prepare for a 

rainy day or get an education or eventually end their need to receive food stamps. 

Finally, food stamp rules discourage working families from utilizing all the financial investment tools encouraged by the tax code 

for other hardworking Americans. I believe Congress should take 

a look at permitting investment and modern savings programs for 

retirement and savings for higher education. 

For these reasons, in February of this year I introduced Senate 

Bill 591, the Food Stamp Personal Savings and Investment Act of 

2007. Joining me as co-sponsors of the bill include Senator Harkin, 

the current chairman, and five other senior Agriculture Committee 

members. I understand we will likely be facing budgetary pressures for the Farm Bill. However, I hope that both sides of the 

aisle, working together, we can address these issues, especially the 

asset limit issue. Reforming food stamp asset limits has a potential 

to help needy families break the cycle of poverty and achieve longterm financial independence. 

I want to thank all of our witnesses who are with us today, and 

with our first family here, we will begin with USDA Deputy Administrator for the Food Stamp Program, Clarence Carter, who is 

here at the last minute substituting for Nancy Johner, who unfortunately got under the weather and couldn’t be here. But Clarence, 

we appreciate very much you being here. We are going to start 

with you and we look forward to your presentation. 

4

STATEMENT OF CLARENCE CARTER, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, FOOD STAMP PROGRAM, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, WASHINGTON, DC, ON BEHALF OF NANCY 

JOHNER, UNDERSECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman and people in attendance, it is a 

pleasure to be here with you this morning. And I do bring you 

greetings from Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns and also Under 

Secretary Nancy Montanez Johner, who, as you pointed out, took 

ill this weekend and was advised not to travel by her doctor, so she 

sends her regrets. I’m also joined this morning by Kate Houston, 

who is the Deputy Administrator for the Special Nutrition Programs. 

And just before I get to my remarks, I too wanted to acknowledge 

Bill Bolling and the work of the Atlanta Community Food Bank. 

In my line of work, I have had the good fortune to see many food 

banks all across this country, and, Bill, I will tell you here that this 

is truly a model for food banks all over the country and you folks 

should be very, very proud of the work that you do here. So I want 

to tell you to keep up the good work. 

I would also like to acknowledge our Southeast Regional Administrator Don Arnette, who is a Regional Administrator for the Food 

& Nutrition Service that this region encompasses, the eight southeastern states including Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North 

Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky and Tennessee. 

And just one final acknowledgment. Mr. Chairman, I want to acknowledge your wisdom and good judgment in spiriting away our—

my former boss Kate Coler, the Deputy Undersecretary at Food, 

Nutrition and Consumer Service, and our loss is your gain. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. I helped train Kate in my House days. 

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, the 15 Domestic Nutrition Assistance Programs administered by FNS, the Food Nutrition Service, 

work together to improve food security, fight hunger, and support 

healthy eating for children of low-income people across the Nation. 

The President’s budget for fiscal year 2008 demonstrates the Administration’s unwavering commitment to this mission by requesting a record level of $59 billion for these vital programs, which 

serve one in five Americans over the course of the year. 

The Food Stamp Program is the Nation’s primary nutrition assistance program, increasing food purchasing power for households 

with little income and few resources by providing benefits that are 

redeemed at retail groceries stores across the country. Over 26 million low-income people make use of the program to help put food 

on the table. 

The evidence is clear that the Food Stamp Program makes an 

important difference in the lives of low-income children and families and the others that it serves. With its nationwide standards for 

eligibility and benefits, it represents a national nutrition safety net 

for low-income families and individuals wherever they live. It is designed to expand on automatically to respond to increased need 

when the economy is in recession and contracts when the economy 

is growing, making sure that food gets to the people who need it, 

when they need it. 

5

To sum up, Mr. Chairman, the Food Stamp Program works. 

That’s why we are committed to ensuring effective program operations for all eligible people who wish to participate. 

In addition to food stamps, FNS administers 14 Nutrition Assistance Programs designed to complement the Food Stamp Program. 

These programs provide supplemental nutrition assistance for specific population groups. The other major nutrition assistance programs include: 

The Child Nutrition Programs, including the school meal (a 

lunch and breakfast) programs, the Child and Adult Care Food 

Program, support nutritious meals and snacks served to over 31 

million children in schools, child care institutions and after-school 

care programs each and every day. 

And for the youngest children and infants, we operate the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and 

Children, or WIC. WIC addresses the special needs of at-risk, lowincome pregnant, breast feeding and postpartum women, infants, 

and children up to 5 years of age. It provides eight million participants monthly with supplemental food packages targeted to their 

dietary needs, nutrition education, and referrals to a range of 

health and social services; benefits that promote a healthy pregnancy for mothers and a healthy start for their children. 

We also operate several commodity distribution programs that 

provide important nutrition support to specific populations. Native 

Americans have the option of receiving commodity-based food packages in lieu of food stamps. Likewise, through the Emergency Food 

Assistance Program, we provide foods and administrative funding, 

support our Nation’s network of food banks and soup kitchens, critical resources for families in need of immediate but temporary food 

assistance. 

Mr. Chairman, we are using the 2007 Farm Bill process to further improve program access and facilitate future self-sufficiency. 

The Administration’s reform-minded and fiscally responsible proposals build on the success of the 2002 Farm Bill, which include 

raising food stamp participation rates among eligible populations, 

restoring eligibility for many illegal immigrants, and providing new 

flexibility for states to tailor services to better serve their clients. 

The 2002 Farm Bill improved access, strengthened integrity and 

provided careful stewardship of the taxpayers’ dollars. 

For instance, it was my pleasure to award a $1 million grant last 

year to the Georgia Department of Human Resources to create a 

web-based food stamp application system in partnership with Georgia Cares in the Division of Aging Services and Christ Lutheran 

Church, a faith-based organization. 

FNS strongly supports state modernization efforts to improve access, integrity and efficiency. Eleven states have statewide electronic applications and three others are piloting operations. Eighteen states have call centers and my staff tells me there is a very 

fine one here in Atlanta also. 

Mr. Chairman, I would like to take a moment to highlight a few 

of our 2007 Farm Bill proposals. These proposals represent the culmination of a great deal of planning and listening to our partners 

and stakeholders all across the country. 

6

We propose to strengthen efforts to integrate nutrition education 

in the Food Stamp Program by recognizing in the Food Stamp Act 

of 1997 that nutrition education is a component of the program and 

investing $100 million to establish some 5–year competitive grant 

demonstration program targeted at developing and testing solutions to the rising rates of obesity. These grants will allow us to 

evaluate creative and innovative solutions in this complex area 

such as point-of-sale incentives to purchase fruits and vegetables 

and increased access among food stamp recipients to farmers markets. 

We also propose to change the name of the Food Stamp Program. 

Stamps, later replaced by coupons, have not been used for many 

years and does not reflect the program’s mission of reducing hunger and improving nutrition among low-income people. Further, implementation of electronic benefits transfer has made food stamps 

and the program name outdated. Finally, some stakeholders suggest that the name is a barrier to participation because of stigma, 

especially among the elderly. 

Next, our proposal to increase program access include: 

Eliminating the cap on the dependent care deduction. The cap 

was set back in 1993. It is time to eliminate the cap, which would 

simplify the state administration and help working families with 

children. 

We also propose to exclude the value of college savings plans 

from the resource limit. This proposal would expand the savings 

plans eligible for exclusion from the resource limit when determining food stamp eligibility. It supports working poor, encourages 

focused savings for children’s futures and recognizes that households should not have to deplete college savings plans in order to 

get nutrition assistance. 

Excluding combat-related military pay. Enhanced pay from military deployment can sometimes cause families receiving food 

stamps to no longer be eligible for this vital assistance. This policy 

change would ensure that military families are not penalized for 

doing their patriotic duty. It supports the families of servicemen 

and servicewomen fighting overseas by ensuring that their families 

back home do not lose food stamps as a result of the additional deployment income. 

We are also encouraging savings for retirement. This proposal 

simplifies food stamp policy and makes it more equitable because 

under current law some retirement accounts are excluded and some 

are included when determining eligibility. 

Beyond the $100 million in obesity prevention grants, we also 

propose to improve nutrition for children by: 

Adding new mandatory funding for the purchase of additional 

fruits and vegetables for use through the National School Lunch 

and Breakfast Programs. This $500 million of funding over 10 

years represents a net increase in the total purchase of fruits and 

vegetables for school meals over levels available under any other 

authorities. 

Conducting a survey of foods purchased by school food authorities with Federal cash assistance once every 5 years. This data 

would help USDA efforts to provide guidance and technical assistance to school food professionals and the implementation of new 

7

rules intended to conform school meal patterns to the most recent 

dietary guidelines for Americans; two, better manage the types and 

varieties of commodities procured by the department on behalf of 

schools; and three, it would assess the economic impact of school 

food purchases on various commodity sectors. 

Also propose increasing Section 32 spending on fruits and vegeta- bles by $2.75 billion over 10 years. This proposal will increase the 

availability of fruits and vegetables to low-income individuals and 

school children participating in nutrition assistance programs, and 

the consumption of these healthful foods will contribute to the improved health of program participants. This provision will benefit 

farmers as well as schools, soup kitchens, food banks, after-school 

programs, and other entities that receive USDA commodities. 

In closing, Mr. Chairman, these proposals will help us continue 

to lead the fight against hunger, and the level of commitment to 

this task remains high. But we still know that there is more to do. 

We are continuing to improve program operations, get benefits to 

those who are already eligible but do not participate, and keep our 

eye on program integrity in the process. 

Thank you for holding this hearing. I’m very pleased to be here. 

I would also again like to thank the Atlanta Community Food 

Bank for allowing us to be here today and for the wonderful work 

they do in this community. We will be happy to answer any questions that you have. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Johner can be found on page 26 

in the appendix.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Thank you very much, Mr. Carter, for that 

excellent testimony, and, of course, your written statement will be 

made a part of the record. 

For the Food Stamp Program, existing and emerging technologies 

offer great promise to improve service delivery for clients who otherwise may experience great hardship when required to travel to 

a local DFACS office, often requiring them to miss work. In a letter 

I sent to Secretary Johanns recently, I asked the department to 

comment on several times related to improving the Food Stamp 

Program through the development and implementation of technology. And while I sent this letter only recently, as you know, I’d 

like to ask you to respond to a few questions if you’re able to at 

this time. 

No. 1: What assistance does USDA provide, if any, to help states 

develop on-line technologies and to what extent does USDA have 

the ability to share these technologies with other states at no cost? 

Second, what steps, including technical assistance, is USDA taking to promote and make these on-line technologies available to 

states? 

And third, what steps is USDA taking to monitor the development of these on-line technologies to ensure that they are the most 

effective and client friendly? 

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, first of all, we very much appreciate 

your interest in this area. 

The Food Stamp Program, being a part of the human services 

system, is really, I would say, pretty late to the game in this whole 

notion of expanding access. The idea of having to go to the local 

office to be able to receive benefits is an antiquated notion. I no 

8

longer have to go to my bank to receive money, so why is it that 

I should have to go to a local social services agency to receive these 

benefits. 

So we understand that and the system is moving toward addressing those concerns, and we are in the process of responding to the 

letter that you sent to Secretary Johanns and it is currently working its way through the bidding process and you should have a formal response to that, I would say, within the week. 

If you take a look at the questions that you posed, I would say 

there are five factors to FNS support to states as we look at the 

issue of on-line technology. Of course the first is 50/50 funding. We 

provide 50 percent of the funding for the administration of the program. And so where states are looking to enhance their technology 

in order to better serve customers, the Federal Government shares 

in 50 percent of the cost. 

In addition, we have a pretty aggressive research agenda in 

which we are looking at several modernization efforts. Florida has 

just undergone a very aggressive modernization effort and we are 

currently doing a research project to determine the effectiveness of 

that—of that research process and which, of course, we will share 

those results far and wide. 

We also provide technical assistance. As states begin to think 

about the ideas of modernizing their systems, we provide technical 

assistance in helping them understand how you stay within all of 

the program rules and also sharing best practices. We let states 

know what other states have—have done in attempting to modernize their program so that they can take advantage of the good 

things that the other states have done, but also not—not fall prey 

to some of the pitfalls. 

And then, of course, we, as I just said, we provide guidance to—

guidance to all states, which make sure they are able to stay within the parameters of the law. 

So we think that we take a pretty aggressive and comprehensive 

look at assisting states as they begin to think through these modernization efforts because it is truly the next frontier of delivery of 

human services. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Let me just take a minute before we leave 

this subject to explain to the audience why this issue is so important because I think the first reaction of any ordinary American 

will be if you got somebody on food stamps, they got a computer 

in their home, how are they going to be able to use technology? 

Well, at our hearing in Washington about 6 weeks ago on this 

very issue, we had a welfare recipient from Ohio who came and 

talked about the fact that when she finally made the decision that 

she needed to make application for food stamps, which was a difficult decision for her to make in the first place because it was obviously somewhat of a humbling decision, but one that required her 

to take off of work, she spent a half a day to go to her local office 

and fill all of the paperwork that is somewhat lengthy, and then 

to—by the time she got back to work, she had missed over a half 

a day. Well, that’s X number of hours out of her pocket that she 

could have used and did need to use to support her family. 

So she talked about the fact that if she had the availability to 

go on-line to make application for food stamps or to express a 

9

change in her condition, that it would be such a great value to her 

and she said every public library in every community in the state 

has a computer that every welfare beneficiary can have access to. 

And it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to be able to go in and figure 

out how to use it. 

Well, I will have to tell you, that made a heck of an impression 

on me, and she makes very good sense by virtue of the—by saying 

that by virtue of having a computer available, if we have the technology in place that every potential welfare recipient, every potential food stamp recipient can now not have to worry about coming 

out of the shadows, so to speak, but this program is so valuable 

and so important it ought to be a positive in somebody’s life rather 

than have a negative impact. 

So with the availability of computers at public libraries and for 

people to now to go in and have access to those computers and to 

go on-line to be able the fill out their applications, which are much 

easier to do than it is going in and filling them out in person, they 

can do it after work, and she said the real advantage of this is I 

can sit my child down over here and have my child reading or 

studying while I am on the computer trying to make sure that we 

get our application filled out in a proper way. 

So it, you know, it is just one of those advantages of modern 

technology that this particular aspect of our social programs at the 

Federal level are now beginning to develop and take advantage of. 

And, Clarence, I want to commend USDA for really taking some 

initiative on this and trying to make sure that we do have the technology available to provide this service to individuals all across 

America to take advantage of. 

And I also, before we leave that, when I got to Congress in 1995, 

GAO did a study in January of that year in which they concluded 

that the welfare—the Food Stamp Program in this country had a 

waste, fraud and abuse factor of over 25 percent. Well, when you 

look at the fact that we spend about $30 billion a year on the Food 

Stamp Program, that gives you an indication of how much money 

was being wasted, and it means that there are a lot of folks who 

ought to be taking advantage of the program that were not being 

able to take advantage of it because of the fact that fraud, this 

waste, fraud and abuse factor was taking away from them. 

We began reforming that system when—in concert with the Department of Agriculture, and again this was a bipartisan effort. In 

January of 2006, GAO did a subsequent report on this, this issue, 

and concluded that the current waste, fraud and abuse factor in 

the Food Stamp Program is less than 6 percent, a dramatic change 

in that we are now not just saving a lot of money, we have got a 

lot more money that is available for our recipients, and it allows 

the department to have some additional funding available to develop this technology so that we can help get the program out into 

the hands of the people that need it the most. So there has been 

a dramatic shift, in large part due to the folks at the local level 

who have made a great effort to make sure that folks who need the 

Food Stamp Program are now being able to take advantage of it, 

and we do not have the abuses that we were seeing for so many 

years. 

10

So I want to commend the department, but I also want to commend the local folks for the great job that you have done to help 

improve this situation. 

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, if I could just echo that. Our state 

and local partners in the delivery of this program have really 

stepped up to the plate, and so we are seeing historically low error 

rates, we are seeing historically low trafficking rates, and we are 

seeing the benefit getting to those who are most in need, and it 

really is because, I believe, of a Federal, state and local partnership 

that works the way it is supposed to administer this program. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. In your testimony you mentioned the national media campaign to conduct Food Stamp Program outreach. 

When will the outreach campaign begin and what will be used to 

measure the outcomes to campaign, what factors are considered in 

decisions about where to concentrate media outreach and in what 

languages will be used in the media campaign? 

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, the media campaign is currently entering its fourth year. We are airing our fourth cycle in the media 

campaign. And in order to determine where we would upgrade the 

media campaign, we worked with our regional offices and our 

states to look at where we had challenges in participation. Where 

we saw there were low participation rates, we attempted to use 

this media campaign to enhance that. We have materials available 

in English and Spanish, and we are particularly proud of, in our 

Hispanic outreach, we see—we have a Hispanic hot line, and we 

see a dramatic increase in calls to that hot line whenever we—

whenever we do our Spanish language media material. 

So we are—and we work with our—with our local partners to determine where the need is and then run the programs, or run the 

campaign in those areas, and we have seen increases in participation based on where we have that—our media campaign. It is in 

its fourth year of operation at this point. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Summer food service programs serves, for 

any given year, only a fraction of the students who receive free 

meals in the national school lunch program. To make it easier for 

meal providers to participate in the program, I am an original cosponsor of a bill introduced in the Senate to expand the simplified 

summer feeding program nationwide. What is USDA doing to increase the participation to ensure children receive the food they 

need when school is out for the summer? 

Mr. CARTER. Kate, why do not you take that one. 

Ms. HOUSTON. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for raising the 

important issue of summer feeding. 

As you mentioned, we have a challenge getting average daily 

participation in the summer months. During the school year we 

serve about 31 million school meals a day, but in the summer we 

are averaging only about 2 million. So admittedly we have a lot of 

work to do in this area. 

FNS is committed to addressing the issue of increasing participation among summer feeding programs, and we really have a twopronged approach that is improving participation at summer feeding sites, but also increasing the number of sponsors we have to 

run summer programs. 

11

You mentioned that you are on the bill for the simplified summer 

program. It is currently operating in 27 states, and we found that 

the program does reduce paperwork and then makes the program—

makes more sponsors interested in operating the program as a result. 

We also have a seamless summer option that we hope is increasing participation among sponsors by allowing school sites to participate in the National School Lunch Program to operate a summer 

program under the same rules without having to reapply. So both 

of those—both of those strategies we think are helping with participation. 

We are also involved with FNS trying to promote the program 

through conferences, national media campaigns, and we have recently implemented rural transportation grants that were authorized by Congress in 2004. That is operating in five states currently, 

and we are finding that by improving transportation needs for children to get to sites, we can increase the number of children who 

have access to summer meals. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Mr. Carter, you talked about an issue that 

I want to highlight a little bit, and that is the issue of nutrition 

education as well as this program of trying to give our recipients 

access to farmers markets so they can get the fresh fruits and vegetables. 

One constant criticism of the program that we as policymakers 

have heard over the years is the fact that somebody will be standing in line at a grocery store behind somebody who is purchasing 

items with food stamps and the items that they see being purchased are not the normal items that it takes to feed a child. There 

is going to be maybe popcorn, candy, or whatever being purchased 

with food stamps and it seems like that those are the only items 

that they see purchased with food stamps as opposed to fresh fruits 

and vegetables and nutrition items. 

Now, there are obviously always reasons for that to be the case, 

and it is not that we intend to end the program to deny any child 

the opportunity to enjoy some other things other than the fresh 

fruits and vegetables, but my point is talk a little bit more about 

what you are doing in this area of nutrition education so that when 

a particularly young mother goes to the grocery store to buy food, 

that she has knowledge of what type of food she ought to buy to 

make sure that her young child is getting the kind of nutrition that 

is going to make that child a healthy child and thereby a better citizen. 

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, the first thing I would like to do in 

response to that question is to really attempt to explode the myth 

that somehow food stamp recipients have worse eating habits than 

the rest of this society. We have a challenge with nutrition and 

healthy eating all across the board in this society if you make $1 

or $1 million. And so we certainly want to make sure that that 

stigma is not only visited on the population that receives food 

stamps. 

Now that being said, we of course want to make sure that within 

the Food Stamp Program that we provide as much guidance to 

families that need this assistance as is possible so that not only on 

one hand do they have the resources to purchase food, but they 

12

also have a knowledge base from which to purchase the best foods. 

So therefore, we have a nutrition education program in which, 

again, we subsidize 50 percent of the state’s spending where it targets education programs to the food stamp recipients. And we have 

seen some amazing partnerships that work in conjunction with our 

states and our cooperative extension associations that really help 

our food stamp population be able to make the best choices possible. 

I think Kate might want to talk a little bit about some expanded 

work we have done on our fruit and vegetables front, but we see 

nutrition education as working hand in hand with the Food Stamp 

Program so on one hand you have the resource, on the other hand 

you have the education to be able to make the best possible decisions you can on those very limited resources. 

Kate, do you want to talk about fruits and vegetables at all? 

Ms. HOUSTON. Sure. I will just reemphasize what was mentioned 

in the testimony, that we have a number of proposals within our 

Farm Bill proposal to increase fruit and vegetable consumption. 

Recognizing that one in five Americans participate in nutrition assistance program, we really see the Farm Bill as an opportunity to 

encourage better eating patterns consistent with the dietary guidelines. 

We are proposing $2.75 billion in Section 32 funds over the next 

10 years be spent to increase fruit and vegetable purchases. We anticipate these fruits and vegetables would be available for all of the 

nutrition assistance programs operated by the department, but we 

particularly anticipate the TEFAP program as being a primary 

beneficiary. 

We also are proposing $50 million per year for increased fruit 

and vegetable purchases for the National School Lunch Program, 

and we believe that if we get fruits and vegetables to schools and 

we help to teach children eating patterns early, that is really a nutrition education tool that we can help to set lifetime eating patterns. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. That issue of allowing our school nutrition 

folks to purchase fresh fruits and vegetables locally is an issue that 

is very near and dear to my heart since I come from the heart of 

agriculture country in Georgia, and needless to say because my 

son-in-law happens to be a produce farmer, I’m particularly interested. I know how expensive his wife is to maintain. 

We—Georgia has not been a participant in the fresh fruits and 

vegetables program to this point in time. We have got 15 states, 

I believe it is, that are participating in that program. We were 

scheduled to come in this year. We were included in the agriculture 

appropriation bill last year, so unfortunately that did not get done 

because that bill never got passed in the form that it came out of 

the committee. But this year we are going to ensure that Georgia 

does participate and that we continue to expand this program, because a school lunch program that allows a nutritionist to go out 

to the local farmers market or even the local grocery store and to 

purchase fresh fruits and vegetables can dramatically impact those 

kids that are getting those school lunches. So I’m very pleased to 

see the department give the emphasis to this program that you are. 

13

Last, Mr. Carter, let me go back to an issue you mentioned because it is very much at the forefront right now with situations ongoing from a military standpoint in the world. You talked about 

military families receiving food stamps. I remember when I was 

elected to the House as a member of the Armed Services Committee in 1995, and it came to light that we had a large number, 

several thousand military families at that time who were eligible 

for the Food Stamp Program, and that was sort of appalling to a 

lot of us who were new members of that committee. And I know 

that we gave a lot of effort and concentrated a lot on trying to remove as many of those folks as possible through increase in pay. 

And I know today those numbers have been dramatically reduced, 

but could you elaborate on that a little bit more as to the participation by military families in the Food Stamp Program? 

Mr. CARTER. Sure. And I apologize that I do not have a specific 

number or percentage of military families that participate, and I 

can make that information available to you, but what I would say 

is that this Administration has realized that what we do not want 

to do is as we—as individuals, put themselves on the front line in 

service to this Nation, in some instances they are—their families 

are eligible to receive food stamps. And when they are on the front 

lines, they are eligible for an increased military or combat pay, and 

we wanted to recognize that service by not adding that military 

pay as an additional resource for the purposes of eligibility. Without this provision, that if an individual were to receive the extra 

military supplement, that would have to be counted as a resource 

and then could potentially make that family ineligible. 

So we see in this Farm Bill proposal, which has been in the last 

two presidents’ budgets, we want to make this part of the Farm 

Bill proposal, which would exclude that military pay from the resource limit of an individual, so that we, when, as we try to honor 

their service, we also do not make it more difficult for them to support their families. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Let me thank you and Ms. Houston for 

being here today. Thanks for your testimony, thanks to the great 

work you are doing at USDA, and we look forward to staying in 

touch as we go through the Farm Bill process and dialog and relative to the nutrition side. 

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, thanks so much for having us this 

morning. It is a pleasure to be here with you. 

Ms. HOUSTON. Thank you very much. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. At this time we will ask our second panel 

to come forward. Mary Dean Harvey, Division Director, Division of 

Family and Children Services; Mr. Alan Essig, the Executive Director, Georgia Budget and Policy Institute; and Ms. Taquana Spicer, 

who is a Georgia food stamp recipient. 

Ms. Harvey, we are going to start with you, and I want to say 

at the outset, you and I had a chance to visit right quick downstairs, and I know that you are a long-time good friend of Secretary 

Mike Johanns, you are both Nebraskans. You are a lot better looking than he is. We are here—we are very pleased that you are here 

to provide testimony. I look forward to telling the Secretary that 

you were here today, and I know he thanks you for the great work 

that you are doing and for your participation in this hearing. We 

14

will start with you, with your comments, and Mr. Essig and Ms. 

Spicer, we’ll come right down the line. 

STATEMENT OF MARY DEAN HARVEY, DIVISION DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF FAMILY AND CHILDREN SERVICES, ATLANTA, 

GEORGIA 

Ms. HARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure this 

morning to address the Committee on the Food Stamp Program, 

and to really underscore many of the things that Mr. Carter mentioned and you addressed in your opening comments. 

Georgians, by nature, are both compassionate and practical, 

which is why we value the Food Stamp Program so much. It can 

be the difference between children who get a good start in life and 

those who do not. Between having the basic necessaries of life and 

choosing what to do without. Between a happy retirement and a 

decline into dependence. In other words, the Food Stamp Program 

is the cornerstone of all social services. 

Today we would like to focus on a few enhancements that would 

make a great program an even better program. One is expanding 

the use of technology, which has been addressed. Next is strengthening the focus and self-sufficiency, and improving the way we 

serve the elderly. 

We believe a greater investment in technology would bring more 

access, improve quality and fewer errors. While low-income citizens 

used to have little access to technology, as has been pointed out, 

that access has been broadly expanded. Today it is a different 

world for them. 

Thanks to a $1 million food stamp participation grant from USDA Food & Nutrition Service and a $2 million gift from Governor Perdue and the Georgia Technology Authority, Georgians will 

soon be able to start the application process, report changes in 

household income, schedule interviews and appointments and receive a checklist of all verified items, all on the web. 

If we can process 35 percent of our applications on-line each 

year, we will save our workers approximately 240,000 hours, so 

that they can focus on the things only that they need to and improving the quality of our services while reducing our errors, making it faster, friendlier, easier, and more convenient for recipients. 

Employing technology can help instill self-sufficiency as well. 

Strengthening the overall program support of self-sufficiency would 

have an even bigger impact. We’d like to see services for the ablebodied adults without dependents function more like TANF where 

stricter requirements and better assistance has helped Georgia 

reach a work participation rate of now 70 percent, with many counties having zero mandated adults on our rolls. Support such as job 

coaching, transitional support to help them stay employed with returners representing about 8 percent of our clients have proved to 

be beneficial for the state of Georgia. 

Another good example that I would like to point out is our Fatherhood Program, which invests in training and educational programs for non-custodial fathers and mothers to help them get better paying jobs so that they could meet their child support obligations and have a bigger impact on their children’s lives. So far this 

year we’ve had over 2,300 participants, 60 percent of whom have 

15

gotten new or better jobs. Now we are reaching out to our prison 

population, transitioning them back into society, assisting them in 

finding jobs so that they can help to support their children. 

As one of the useful and reliable tools in our human services toolbox, the Food Stamp Program could do even better work for us 

with similar enhanced work requirements and incentives. 

For those past their working years, the Food Stamp Program becomes an even more important part of support. The elderly are a 

vulnerable and growing population. Many live on small, fixed incomes, but because they may have other benefits, they often qualify 

only for the minimum food stamp benefit; and that is just $10 a 

month. In fact, 62 percent of the people receiving the minimum 

benefit in Georgia are single persons over the age of 60. That minimum hasn’t been adjusted since 1974 and has approximately onefourth of the buying power as it did back then. That means that 

the cost of a quart of milk, a dozen eggs and a loaf of bread in 1974 

would buy you today a half pint of milk, three eggs, and enough 

bread for a couple of sandwiches. 

The single most effective change to help seniors would be to raise 

that minimum benefit to at least $25 a month, not only increasing 

its value, but also making it more likely that seniors would participate. Too many of them decide applying isn’t worth $10 a month, 

so they skip the program and a few meals. 

Increasing the asset limit would also help and that has been addressed. With people living longer, they’ll need the homes, the IRAs 

and everything they’ve managed to save. We can make food stamps 

even more valuable by taking that into account. 

Seniors have a great demand on them today. More than 164,000 

children in Georgia are living in a household headed by a grandparent, children who might otherwise be in foster care. We’d rather 

have them living in the loving arms of family than in our foster 

care system. Through our department-wide Grandparents Raising 

Grandchildren initiative, we prioritize those seniors for many services. We give them an extra $50 a month as relative placements 

and we help them make their homes ready to raise children again 

with an initial payment. Enhanced food stamp benefits would help 

both those seniors and the children they care for. 

I cannot begin to imagine how we would do our jobs as social 

service providers without this valuable program. On the contrary, 

what I can easily imagine is how we could make it even more an 

integral part of our overall package for strengthening families and 

making individuals more self-sufficient. 

We would encourage you to help drive our work in that direction. 

Holding states accountable with penalties is necessary but not sufficient to optimize the impact of the program. Balancing those with 

additional incentives can give us something higher to reach for, 

producing better long-term social outcomes and paying dividends to 

America for a long time to come. 

Thank you for the opportunity. I would be glad to answer any 

questions you have. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Harvey can be found on page 47 

in the appendix.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Thank you. Mr. Essig. 

16

STATEMENT OF ALAN ESSIG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GEORGIA 

BUDGET AND POLICY INSTITUTE, ATLANTA, GEORGIA 

Mr. ESSIG. Mr. Chairman, first I would especially like to thank 

you for your leadership in the Committee in recent years. You have 

been a true champion of the Food Stamp Program. It is greatly appreciated. 

The Food Stamp Program is a win/win for Georgia. 

The Food Stamp Program pumped over $1 billion into the Georgia economy 2005, benefiting farmers, grocers and small businesses 

throughout the state. The Food Stamp Program helps over 920,000 

residents buy food each month. The Food Stamp Program is one of 

the most efficiently administered programs in the Federal Government. It is the largest food assistance program in the country and 

the Nation’s largest child nutrition program. About 80 percent of 

food stamp benefits go to households with children, many of them 

in working families. 

Although Georgia continues to approach the national average in 

median income, thousands of Georgians have trouble making ends 

meet and often struggle to purchase adequate food. In fact, 14.4 

percent of Georgians, over 1.2 million people, live in poverty in 

2005. Georgia ranked 14th highest in poverty rates among the 

states. Although overall poverty was high, children’s poverty in 

Georgia was even greater. In 2005, 20.2 percent of Georgia’s children lived in poverty, giving Georgia the 15th highest child poverty 

rate in the Nation. This has led to Georgia having the 14th worst 

rate of food insecurity in the Nation. USDA has found that more 

than 12 percent of Georgia’s households are food insecure, what 

most people would call hungry. Census Bureau data shows that an 

estimated 408,000 households in Georgia live with hunger. 

Even people who get food stamps frequently find that the benefit 

is not enough to get them through the month. Due to a cut rate 

in 1996 and that remains in effect today, the benefit is declining 

in purchasing power. The average monthly benefit here is only 

$1.07 per meal, but that benefit buys less and less food from year 

to year. How can anyone live off $1.07 a meal for a whole month, 

let alone purchase an adequate nutritious diet? 

This means families struggle to have enough to eat as the month 

goes by and the food stamps run out. In Georgia the benefits lost 

due to the erosion of the benefit standard deduction since 1996 will 

reach $15 million by 2008 and a staggering $711 million between 

2008 and 2017. 

The committee heard recently from Rhonda Stewart, a food 

stamp participant from Ohio, who spoke eloquently about the 

struggle to stretch the food stamp benefit to last the month and the 

difficulty choices she had to make. Georgians face these same 

choices at the end of the month when the food stamps are gone, 

between paying the utility bills or buying milk, between the adults 

eating or feeding the children. For children, not having enough food 

can be particularly devastating because they need proper nutrients 

and quantities of food to help them develop cognitively, physically 

and emotionally. 

The Senate Agriculture Committee took steps to ameliorate this 

problem in the 2002 Farm Bill by indexing the standard deduction 

used to calculate benefits for larger households. This year the SenVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:45 Aug 24, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\35048.TXT SAG2 PsN: SAG2
17

ate finished this job and indexed the deduction for all households. 

While it would not restore benefits to the level they should be, it 

will prevent the benefit from further erosion. The cost of this improvement would be about $1.3 billion over 5 years. Almost half of 

the benefits in this change will go to families with children. Slightly more than half will go to households with an elderly or disabled 

member. Stopping the erosion of benefits is a vital part of efforts 

to reduce hunger and improve the nutritional status of food stamp 

participants. 

Another problem is that many people who need food stamps cannot get it through Federal eligibility rules. Thank you, Senator 

Chambliss, for sponsoring an important bill to allow needy families 

to receive food stamps if they have modest savings put aside for 

emergencies, education or retirements. S. 591 is a vitally important 

piece of legislation. 

I would also like to mention the problems for working poor families that pay for child care. The average cost of child care for poor 

mothers is almost $350 per month. Many low-income families in 

Georgia must pay this full expense out of pocket. The Administration’s budget this year proposes to help these households by adjusting food stamp populations so they can deduct the full amount of 

their child care costs they incur. Currently the amount is capped 

at the 1993 levels of $200 or less. The Senate could eliminate the 

cap on the child care deduction to help these families bear the high 

cost of child care without sacrificing food. 

Congress also should work hard to reduce access barriers to the 

Food Stamp Program. In Georgia only 67 percent of all households 

who are eligible for food stamps receive the benefit. The participation rate for the working poor is even lower at 57 percent. 

I would also like to ask the committee to oppose the President’s 

proposal to eliminate 300,000 low-income people from the program 

by stripping state’s flexibility provided in 1996 Welfare Law, which 

allows states to coordinate their eligibility rules with state TANF 

programs. Those affected generally would be among the most vulnerable groups the program serves: working families with children 

that are receiving some kind of TANF-funded support. In Georgia, 

811 children would lose food stamps as well as 625 adults and elderly people. The Committee has rejected this cut every time the 

President has proposed it, should continue to protect these vulnerable households. 

In closing, I want to thank the committee for taking the time to 

learn about the importance of the Food Stamp Program. I also 

want to thank you for your consideration of the six food stamp recommendations for the 2007 Farm Bill: stop the erosion of benefits, 

to simplify enrollment, to adjust benefits to more accurately reflect 

child care costs, to allow more families with modest assets to participate in the Food Stamp Program, reduce access barriers to the 

Food Stamp Program, and to reject the Administration’s proposed 

termination of some working poor families from the program by 

ending state flexibility to use categorical eligibility. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Essig can be found on page 37 

in the appendix.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Thank you very much. 

18

I talked to Ms. Spicer a little earlier today and she said something about being nervous. She has three children that she will describe in a minute, she’s used to talking to an audience of three 

rather than an audience this size, so before she starts, let’s make 

her all feel welcome and honor her for being here today. 

[Applause.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Ms. Spicer, thank you. 

STATEMENT OF TAQUANA SPICER, CLAYTON COUNTY, 

GEORGIA 

Ms. SPICER. OK. To the Chairman and Distinguished Ladies and 

Gentlemen of the Senate, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. It is truly an honor. 

Please let me begin by introducing myself. My name is Taquana 

Spicer. I live in Clayton County, Georgia. I am an administrative 

assistant with Hearts to Nourish Hope, a nonprofit agency that offers services to at-risk youth. I obtained my position through the 

TANF work program and I have been with my organization for 4 

years. I also have three children, ages ten, six and two. 

Before I obtained my current position, I was out of work and 

found myself living in a shelter in Fulton County with my children. 

I was in the shelter for 6 months and during that time I could not 

find a job. I was finally able to move out to Clayton County with 

my mother’s help. She had received a small amount of back child 

support from my father and used the money to help me find housing. 

While I was in the process of moving, I missed a TANF—I’m 

sorry—I missed an appointment to transfer my TANF and food 

stamp cases from Fulton County to Clayton County and my benefits were terminated. I found myself living in Clayton County with 

no job, no benefits and no food for my children. When I had so little 

money that I could not afford bus fare, I walked four and a half 

hours to the local DFACS office to reapply for my benefits. At that 

time I was enrolled in the Clayton County TANF work program. 

Because I wasn’t given emergency food stamps at the time, the 

woman in charge of the TANF work program, Diane Danely, 

bought me $50 worth of groceries to get me through the month, 

and I will always be grateful for her assistance. Ms. Danely also 

decided that it would be better for me to obtain clerical experience 

rather than finding another job as a salesclerk. She placed me in 

my current position with Hearts to Nourish Hope, and I was eventually given a full-time position. 

I love my job and working with my organization. We help older 

children who are at risk by providing GED classes, counseling and 

help with homework and a place to go after school. I love the children, and I see how many of them are in the same position I was 

when I was their age. I want to help them go about things in a 

different way than I did. I feel very—I’m sorry. I feel very lucky 

to work where I do. 

In my position with Hearts to Nourish Hope I work full time and 

take home pay is approximately $960 a month. My rent is $700 a 

month, plus I have expenses for child care, utilities, and public 

transportation, as well as for my children’s clothing and supplies. 

At this time I do not receive child support. Without my monthly alVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:45 Aug 24, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\35048.TXT SAG2 PsN: SAG2
19

lotment of food stamps, which is $462, I would not be able to make 

ends meet. If my food stamps were cut even by $50, I would not 

be able to pay some other bills such as my lights, gas or even my 

rent. I always use plenty of coupons when I shop, and I typically 

buy food at Wal-Mart. Because I buy bulk foods, they last a lot 

longer. I usually spend $150 to $175 every 2 weeks on groceries. 

Sometimes I have enough food for my children and sometimes I do 

not. It typically depends on whether or not the children are out of 

school. Because they eat breakfast and lunch at school, I have a 

harder time during holidays or on the weekends. Food stamps are 

very important to me and my family. 

I am very hopeful that 1 day I will no longer have to receive food 

stamps. I obtained my GED in 1999 and I’m going back to school 

this fall to study in business administration. I plan to attend Shorter College and am optimistic that going back to school will lead to 

an increase in my income. In the meantime, the help I receive from 

food stamps, the Food Stamp Program, will enable me to achieve 

my goals and I also want the best for children. What I want most 

is for them—what I want most is that they won’t have to receive 

food stamps when they are adults. I also want to be able to provide 

them with the things that they need and good nutritious food. I am 

grateful to the Food Stamp Program for helping me to be able to 

do this, and I want to thank you for your generous support of the 

program. I know many other people who are like me who work 

hard and who just need a little bit of help to make a better life for 

themselves and their children. 

Thank you for your time and allowing me to tell my story. I 

would be happy to answer any questions at this time. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Spicer can be found on page 52 

in the appendix.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Well, thank you very much for that emotional and inspired story. You did very well. 

[Applause.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Ms. Harvey, one of the ideas that we discussed earlier with Mr. Carter was the investment in technology to 

improve the Food Stamp Program, and I know here in Georgia we 

are moving very rapidly toward the development of a web site. Talk 

a little bit about that web site, when is it going to be ready, how 

easy is it going to be for individuals to access that web site, and 

go through the process of filling out an application either for new 

benefits, changing benefits, changing counties, whatever the situation may be. 

Ms. HARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the most recent 

example that Ms. Spicer gave us highlights the need to have access 

via technology. She would not have had to, A, miss that appointment at the office, the case could have been transferred to the 

other county where she had moved, and, B, benefits would not have 

been discontinued, and you would not have had to walk four miles. 

My hat is off to you. 

So we are very, very excited about the ability to get on-line access coming up pretty quickly. I might say, being the prudent people that we are in DHR, when I said it is a department-wide effort, 

we are using—we are leveraging resources with the department of 

20

aging, Division of Aging as well so that we will be able to access 

Medicaid and a whole bunch of things through that option. 

I have a ton of support out here with me today, so I will ask 

Bonita to tell us when we think we will have our on-line access 

ready. 

Ms. EDWARDS. It is approximately about 18 months we expect to 

have that application finished and up and running. 

Ms. HARVEY. And I really thank you. Thank you. I want to thank 

our regional office as well and to recognize them. We work with 

tons of Federal entities in getting our work done, and one of the 

more responsive of those is our FNS regional office. I would like to 

thank them for that. And forgive me, Batista. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. How has Georgia utilized the Food Stamp 

Program as a resource to cope with the situation involving Hurricanes Katrina and Rita? 

Ms. HARVEY. When we look at our food stamp application and 

participation rate, we saw huge, a huge increase, particularly following Hurricane Katrina and Rita, and, I might point out, the 

most recent tornado that we had in about eight to eleven counties 

in south central Georgia here most recently. We were able to—and 

again, hats off to all of those people who were responsible for administering that program—we were able to get food stamps to people immediately, because that was an immediate need without having them go through a long, cumbersome process. So we were able 

to expedite services to them and found good support from our regional office in having that happen. 

So without having that benefit and making it available to people, 

clearly people would have been in trouble. Georgia experienced a 

huge influx of folks as a result of that hurricane, and I was in 

Americus, went to Americus the day after the tornado there, and 

again we had to set up the same kind of emergency offices there, 

and when I approached our building where we were located, there 

were 200 folk in line. And what they were looking for primarily 

was a means to secure food because they had lost their food. For 

those who even have homes left standing, the power had been out. 

And that power stayed out for many days. So food was essential. 

And I cannot underscore the importance of that particular benefit 

by saying it truly is the cornerstone of all social services. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. When you have a situation like that, does 

somebody have to go through filling out all the paperwork, or do 

you take emergency measures just to get something in their hands 

so they can buy food? 

Ms. HARVEY. We take emergency measures. And the wonderful 

part about all of that is that we were holding our breath, waiting 

for those counties, particularly with the last tornado, to be declared 

a disaster because we have to have disaster declarations before we 

can get any benefits out to them. 

But the good news is we had gained such experience with 

Katrina and Rita that we knew how to do the preparatory work so 

that the moment that the President declared the area a disaster 

area, we were able to get those benefits in the hands of people. So 

within a very short timeframe we can provide that assistance. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Great. 

21

The department is proposing to change of the name of the Food 

Stamp Program to the Food and Nutrition Program. Do you have 

any—first of all, do you agree with that? Do you have any suggestions or comments to them about that? 

Ms. HARVEY. I applaud it. I commend them. It is about time. We 

haven’t had stamps for so long. We haven’t had the paper coupons 

for so long. The electronic benefits is a widely accepted and yet well 

practiced thing. It removed—that tool, in and of itself, removed a 

lot of stigma. It is tough for folk now to tell whether that is a credit 

card that is being swiped or what that is that is being swiped. So 

it just incorporates that body of Americans who find it necessary 

to use that tool to assist their families, it incorporates them into 

the larger society. 

I would so support the change of the names. Food and nutrition. 

I oftentimes have to remind people of the economic impact that this 

program has on every state, not just Georgia, but every state. 

When my guys were in Nebraska, I knew towns that would have 

shut down had we pulled that out of the economy. 

So this program is beneficial not only for the children and families who are direct recipients, it is also a huge economic boost. Any 

time we are putting nearly a billion dollars into the economy of the 

state of Georgia via this one vehicle, I think it deserves to be elevated and recognized for the importance that it holds for all of us. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. I actually learned something today. I had no 

idea that one out of every ten Georgians takes advantage of the 

program annually. That is an amazing figure. 

Mr. Essig, you mentioned the great strides that Congress, USDA, 

and the states have made to address the issue of Food Stamp Program payment error rates and successfully bring these error rates 

down to historical lows. What should the Committee consider to 

protect and encourage program accuracy? 

Mr. ESSIG. I give a lot of credit to Congress and the states, and 

I think Georgia is a perfect example of that, where they have really 

concentrated, the last four or 5 years, on trying to be as accurate 

as possible. I think the—some of the proposals that you were talking about, nowadays anything that can bring better technology into 

the system that can help us do things more efficiently will help improve the system. I think it is a question of prioritizing, a question 

of the importance of it. I mean, there comes a point where I do not 

think anything is ever going to be perfect. I do not think we can 

get 100 percent. Human beings are going to take mistakes and that 

is going to happen. But I think we can get to a point where we can 

get as low as we possibly can. 

And then I think the challenge is to keep it at that, and I think 

a lot of that is just keeping the focus on accuracy, keeping the best 

technology possible, making sure that the staff makes that as a 

focus. And again I really think in Georgia DFACS has really made 

that a priority the last four or 5 years. I cannot speak for other 

states, but there has been obviously a national—you know, that a 

lot of states are doing better on it. But I think in Georgia we are 

really doing a better job on that. 

We can use your assistance from the Federal Government and 

possibly get additional funding and technology help. But it is a 

question of focused priority, I think on the bureaucracy, to make 

22

it as efficient as possible, as fair as possible, to be as accurate as 

possible. I think we have had that focus the last four or 5 years. 

It is a question of keeping it there. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. We are talking about developing technology 

to allow folks to go on-line. How are we going to do oversight to 

make sure that an individual who goes into a public library as opposed to coming face to face with a caseworker at a DFACS office 

is truly the person they say they are. 

Mr. ESSIG. I think that is a challenge not just in state programs, 

but we are now on an on-line—the society has changed tremendously. We do a lot of our shopping, a lot of our business on-line. 

And it is always that who—if I’m buying something from Amazon.com, do they know it is me, do they know it is my credit card. 

I am not a technology expert, so I cannot tell you exactly how to 

do it, but it is being done all over the country. Other states have 

been very, I think, successful in adapting this technology. I think 

there is models out there. And again it is having the focus on the 

importance of it, having the flexibility to do it the best way possible. 

But I think it is the—it is the wave of the future, and it is up 

to us to develop the system and the technology—technological capabilities to assure that we do not have fraud and abuse as we go 

more on-line. But I think going more on-line is inevitable, and I 

think it is better for the recipient, it is better for the state, it is 

better for the Federal Government. And again every—it is the way 

business is done and this is just another business—you know, applying for government services is just another business aspect of 

looking at your life. And we need to—we just need to make it a 

focus. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. In your testimony you mention that there 

are access barriers out there for food stamp recipients to—that 

they encounter from time to time. What are these barriers, how can 

we as policymakers address these barriers, eliminate these barriers, make them easier to knock down so that folks can have access to the program? 

Mr. ESSIG. And here is another example where I really want to 

compliment the state in the last couple years. They have really 

made some reforms that have made it easier on food stamp recipients. I think you have talked to some of them in some of your opening comments. And I think the example that Ms. Spicer went 

through is a good example of how we should not have the type of 

barriers she had to go through. 

You know, if having someone who has a job, that is maybe an 

hourly wage worker and to expect them to take half a day off, a 

full day off to apply for these kind of benefits is a huge barrier. So 

anything we can do through technology to being able to apply over 

the phone, being able to apply over the Internet, anything we can 

do to make it easier on that. At the same time have the systems 

in place to make sure that that reduces the problem would be a 

huge step forward. 

It is a question of how—and again I think the business analogy, 

you know, the idea of business today is how to make it as simple 

as possible for consumers to buy what they need to buy. And I 

think we need to have the same philosophy with how we do busiVerDate 0ct 09 2002 11:45 Aug 24, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\35048.TXT SAG2 PsN: SAG2
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ness as government, whether it is at the Federal level or state 

level. How do we make it simple? How do we make it seamless? 

How do we make it so it is as not intrusive as possible? 

At the same time, we need to be very aware of taxpayers’ money 

and there is accountability that we all have to be aware of and to 

build those systems in place within the wondrous technology that 

we have today that will allow us, allow folks like Ms. Spicer to be 

at home on the weekend to a library computer as opposed to taking 

a half day off of work. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. Ms. Spicer, again you are the very heart of 

why we are here today talking about food stamps. It is situations 

like yours that this program needs to address, and I applaud your 

spirit, your determination, your persistence in making sure that 

your children do have the nutrition that are going make them 

smarter young people, better prepared young people, and you are 

certainly to be commended for that. 

I am also grateful that you are mentoring other young people in 

your work today and help them find a—in trying to help them find 

a better way of life out there. You are an example of the goodness 

and hope that nutrition programs can provide, an example of which 

we can all be proud. 

One of the initiatives underway in several states includes simplifying of the process of individuals to fill out and submit food 

stamp—food stamp applications. In your experience, how difficult 

is the application process for participants and what are the hardest 

parts to complete? 

Ms. SPICER. I would say it is difficult, like he said, taking off 

work and having to go spend half a day in the office as opposed 

to being at work where I could be getting the income that I need 

to have. If I could fill it out even at work on-line that would be 

great. 

The hardest part filling out—actually, the application is not that 

hard. The application itself is not that hard. It is basically the 

hardest part is humbling yourself, having to go in there and you 

never know what you would be dealing with as far as, you know, 

other people’s attitudes and how they feel. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. In your testimony you shared the experience 

of losing benefits when you moved from Fulton County to Clayton 

County, and this is one of the aspects that we really want to address with this technology improvement that we are talking about. 

At the time when your benefits were dropped, would it have been 

possible to renew your benefits by using a computer or a computerbased application make the process easier? 

Ms. SPICER. Yes. 

Senator CHAMBLISS. For transfer as well as what you just talked 

about? 

Ms. SPICER. Yes. I missed out on the appointment because of 

transferring from Fulton County to Clayton County. They had already sent a renewing letter to my old address and I did not get 

it at the new address, so I know to renew my benefits—I’m sorry—

call metro change center when it is time to let them know of a 

change, and I called in and they had already said that I missed the 

appointment. I knew if I could have just went on-line it would have 

been easier. 

24

Senator CHAMBLISS. Well, again thanks to all of you for providing 

valuable testimony here today. I assure you that your testimony is 

going to be duly considered as we look at the nutrition title and 

the reauthorization of the Food Stamp Program. You certainly have 

given us a lot of insight, not just to the day-to-day operation on the 

beneficiary side, but from an administration standpoint. We thank 

you for giving us your—the benefit of your testimony and your 

ideas about what direction we need to go in. 

Well, that concludes our hearing, and I again want to thank Bill. 

Bill, raise your hand back there for those of you that do not know 

Bill Bolling. 

[Applause.] 

Senator CHAMBLISS. What a great American Bill is, but this 

place would not operate with the great staff that Bill has here, 

both the very few paid staff and the many hundreds of volunteers 

that he has. And for those of you who would like to have a tour 

of this facility, and if you have never had one, folks, you ought to 

take advantage of it. I tell you, it is an amazing process from which 

you will walk away feeling good about your country, good about 

your county and about your state if you are from Georgia and live 

in this area. 

So if you would like to go on a tour, if you will meet downstairs 

in the lobby there, is that where we are going to be? If you will 

meet in the lobby downstairs, there will be folks who will be happy 

to give you a tour. 

This record is going to remain open for 5 days for anyone who 

wishes to submit a statement, and with that this hearing will be 

concluded. 

[Whereupon at 11:21 a.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

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