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34–412 PDF 2007

S. Hrg. 110–21

NOMINATION OF GREGORY B. CADE

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON THE

NOMINATION OF GREGORY B. CADE TO BE ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. FIRE 

ADMINISTRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

MARCH 15, 2007

Available via http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

BARACK OBAMA, Illinois 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine 

TED STEVENS, Alaska 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico 

JOHN WARNER, Virginia 

JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Staff Director 

KRISTINE V. LAM, Professional Staff Member 

BRANDON L. MILHORN, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

JENNIFER L. TARR, Minority Associate Counsel 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Warner ................................................................................................ 1

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 3

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 4

Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................ 12

WITNESS 

THURSDAY, MARCH 15, 2007

Gregory B. Cade to be Administrator, U.S. Fire Administration, U.S. Department of Homeland Security: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 17

Biographical and professional information ..................................................... 22

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 32

Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics ............................................... 48

(1)

NOMINATION OF GREGORY B. CADE 

THURSDAY, MARCH 15, 2007

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph I. Lieberman, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Lieberman, McCaskill, Collins, and Warner. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR WARNER 

Senator WARNER. Let’s seize the moment. I will knock the gavel. 

[Laughter.] 

The hearing is now commenced, and I would like to say to my 

former Chairman, the distinguished Senator Collins, that I am 

privileged to be here this morning for the purpose of the introduction of Chief Greg Cade to be the U.S. Fire Administrator. He is 

joined by his lovely wife. Would you kindly introduce your wife and 

others here, Chief? 

Mr. CADE. Thank you, sir. I have with me this morning my wife, 

Debbie. 

Mrs. CADE. Nice to meet you. 

Senator WARNER. And all these other fellows behind you? 

Mr. CADE. I also have with me my brother-in-law, Jesse, and my 

good friend, Bill. They are here in support of me. And from the 

IAFC, the Treasury, Julian Taliaferro, who is also here with me 

this morning. So I am very fortunate to have some friends in the 

audience. 

Senator WARNER. Well, we thank you very much for offering to 

take on this very important chapter of your life in public service 

again. 

Madam Chairman, the U.S. Fire Administration was created in 

1974 with the mission to protect the American people from loss of 

life through coordination of the various fire services, education, and 

public outreach. Today, I have the pleasure to introduce to the 

Committee a long-time Virginian, Chief Greg Cade, as the President’s nominee to lead this organization. 

The nomination is a result of nearly four decades of service in 

Prince Georges County, Maryland; Hampton, Virginia; and Virginia 

Beach. For the past 15 years, Chief Cade has served the Hampton 

Roads Community, most recently as Chief of the Virginia Beach 

Fire Department. 

2

It has been our pleasure to have had Chief Cade serve the people 

of Virginia. I had the privilege to work directly with the Chief 

when Hurricane Isabel struck Virginia in 2003 and can say that he 

can be an asset to the U.S. Fire Administration and the men and 

women in the Fire Services all across America, one of our most heroic cadres of public servants all across this country. 

Under his leadership, the Virginia Beach Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) team, one of the 28 FEMA teams deployed around the 

country to assist in major disaster situations, has assisted in the 

response to disasters such as the September 11 attack on the Pentagon and Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. 

Chief Cade’s nomination is supported by the International Association of Fire Chiefs, the Virginia Fire Chiefs Association, the 

International Association of Fire Fighters, and numerous other organizations. The President has placed trust in Chief Cade with the 

nomination, and it is my hope that this Committee and the full 

Senate will confirm him soon so that he can assume this important 

post. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Warner follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR WARNER 

Mr. Chairman and Madam Ranking Member, the U.S. Fire Administration was 

created in 1974 with the mission to protect the American people from loss of life 

through coordination of the various fire services, education, and public outreach. 

Today, I have the pleasure to introduce to the Committee a long-time Virginian, 

Chief Greg Cade, as the President’s nominee to lead this organization. He is joined 

here today by his wife, Debbie. 

This nomination is a result of his nearly four decades of service in Prince Georges 

County, Maryland; Hampton, Virginia; and Virginia Beach. 

For the past 15 years Chief Cade has served the Hampton Roads Community, 

most recently as Chief of the Virginia Beach Fire Department. 

It has been our pleasure to have Chief Cade serve the people of Virginia. I had 

the privilege to work directly with the Chief when Hurricane Isabel struck Virginia 

in 2003 and can say that he will be an asset to the U.S. Fire Administration and 

the men and women in fire services across the country. 

Under his leadership, the Virginia Beach Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) 

Team, one of the 28 FEMA teams deployed around the country to assist in major 

disaster situations, has assisted in the response to disasters such as the September 

11 attack on the Pentagon and Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. 

Chief Cade’s nomination is supported by the International Association of Fire 

Chiefs, the Virginia Fire Chiefs Association, the International Association of Fire 

Fighters, and numerous other organizations. 

The President has placed his trust in Chief Cade with this nomination, and it is 

my hope that this Committee and the full Senate will confirm him soon so that he 

can get to work.

Senator WARNER. Recognizing our distinguished Chairman, I 

took it upon myself to hit the table and initiate this hearing. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. You know, I am a great advocate of nonpartisanship and bipartisanship, but I did not realize when we 

changed the seating arrangement of the Committee that I would be 

inviting a coup. [Laughter.] 

Senator WARNER. Well, your colleague and my dear friend Senator Levin and I are co-chairing the Armed Services Committee 

this morning. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Yes, please go right ahead. I apologize to 

you, Senator Warner. I was going to invite you to go first. I was 

3

waiting to introduce Ambassador Khalilzad at his confirmation 

hearing for the Foreign Relations Committee. 

Senator WARNER. Yes, the new Ambassador. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Please go right ahead. 

Senator WARNER. Thank you. I have just completed. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Really? 

Senator WARNER. Yes. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Was it good? 

Senator COLLINS. It was fabulous. [Laughter.] 

Senator WARNER. Good luck. 

Mr. CADE. Thank you. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LIEBERMAN 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. OK. Chief, good to see you. 

Today we are considering the nomination of Chief Gregory Cade 

to be the Administrator of the U.S. Fire Administration. If confirmed, Chief, you will head an important, though probably not 

widely known, office of the Department of Homeland Security, the 

U.S. Fire Administration (USFA), which provides Federal leadership and support for the Nation’s firefighters. 

The Fire Administration promotes fire prevention and, in particular, works to reduce the loss of life from fires, including the 

tragic loss of life of firefighters, 105 of whom perished in the line 

of duty last year. 

Through the National Fire Academy, the USFA provides a wide 

range of training opportunities for firefighters and emergency medical services providers, from handling materials to implementing an 

incident command system. And from its position within DHS, it 

helps ensure that firefighters are integrated into the plans and preparedness to respond to disasters, whether natural or manmade. 

Last year, as you know, Chief, Congress passed the Post Katrina 

Emergency Management Reform Act, which created a newly expanded and, we believe, reinvigorated FEMA. Under that act, at 

the end of this month, the USFA once again will become a part of 

FEMA, as it was from 1979 through 2005. And that is obviously 

where we think it belongs. 

I look forward to any thoughts you have about how USFA should 

fit in with the new FEMA and what role it might play in improving 

national preparedness and response efforts. 

I would also like to hear your thoughts on the funding for the 

Fire Service. Once again, unfortunately, the Administration has 

proposed cuts in the FIRE Act grants to first responders, and that 

troubles me greatly. 

Finally, I want to hear your ideas about interoperability. Specifically, what can we do to ensure firefighters have the tools they 

need not only to communicate among themselves in a disaster, but 

to communicate with other first responders as well as State and 

local officials? 

Chief, you bring to this position over three decades of experience 

in the Fire Service, including 8 years as Chief of the Virginia 

Beach Fire Department and as that city’s Emergency Services Coordinator. If you are confirmed, I, but more importantly, the Nation, will count on you to use that experience to make the U.S. Fire 

4

Administration a truly great resource for our firefighters and for 

our Nation. 

Senator Collins. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome to 

you, Chief Cade 

From Ground Zero on September 11, to the Gulf Coast in the 

aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, to the numerous emergencies that arise every day in communities across our Nation, firefighters risk their own lives to protect our lives. They serve as one 

of the pillars of the communities across our great land. Whether career or volunteer, America’s nearly 1.2 million firefighters exemplify professionalism, dedication, and heroism. 

Since Congress established the agency 33 years ago, the Fire Administration has served as an invaluable resource for training, research, and public education. Perhaps most impressive is the 

progress that the Fire Administration has made in helping to reduce fire deaths in this country by more than half. That is a remarkable record of accomplishment. 

Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Fire Administration has become an even more vital component of our Nation’s emergency preparedness and response system. From the inception of the Department of Homeland Security, this Committee 

has worked hard to ensure that the Fire Administration has a special place within the Department, serving not only as the voice of 

America’s firefighters, but as also one of the Secretary’s principal 

advisers on first responder issues. For example, our FEMA reform 

legislation elevated the Fire Administrator to the position of Assistant Secretary in recognition of the important role of this agency. 

Although the Fire Administration and the Department face many 

significant challenges, no issue is more pressing than the continuing difficulty our first responders have in communicating with 

each other in real time and on demand in times of crisis. 

In his interview with the Committee, Chief Cade explained that 

new technology will play an important role in improving emergency 

communications. But he also pointed out—and I think this is so important—that we must not overlook other barriers to effective 

emergency communications. Non-technological barriers, such as the 

absence of governing agreements and standard operating procedures, also impede progress in this area. These are indeed crucial 

elements of our Nation’s efforts to improve emergency communications, and I look forward to exploring these issues with the chief 

this morning. 

Like the Chairman, I am also interested in the chief’s perspective 

on the Department’s first responder grant programs, including the 

FIRE Act program, which the Chairman and I have been stalwart 

supporters of and which we are both disturbed at the President’s 

budget for. The Committee has worked hard to improve the grant 

programs that strengthen our State and local homeland security 

partners. 

I will not go into the chief’s background since the Chairman has 

done that already, but I would note that he began his distinguished 

40-year career as a volunteer firefighter, and in my home State of 

5

Maine, 338 of our 405 fire departments are led by volunteer chiefs. 

We have a great appreciation for both our professional firefighters 

and our volunteers. They are both the backbone of our Nation’s 

emergency response system. 

So I commend the chief for an outstanding career in public service. I would ask unanimous consent that my full statement be included in the record. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Without objection, so ordered. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Collins follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to you, Chief Cade. The agency Chief 

Cade has been nominated to lead—the U.S. Fire Administration—plays a crucial 

role in securing our Nation, and I look forward to discussing its important mission 

with him today. 

From Ground Zero on September 11 to the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita to the numerous emergencies that arise every day in communities across our Nation, firefighters risk their own lives to protect others. They 

serve as one of the pillars of the communities across our great land. Whether career 

or volunteer, America’s nearly 1.2 million firefighters exemplify professionalism, 

dedication, and heroism. 

Since Congress established the agency 33 years ago, the Fire Administration has 

served as an invaluable resource for training, research, and public education. Perhaps most impressive is the progress that the Fire Administration has made in 

helping to reduce fire deaths by more than half—a remarkable record of accomplishment. 

Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Fire Administration has become an even more vital component of our Nation’s emergency preparedness and response structure. From the inception of the Department of Homeland Security, this 

Committee has worked hard to ensure that the Fire Administration has a special 

place within the Department, serving not only as the voice of America’s firefighters, 

but also as one of the Secretary’s principal advisors on first responder issues. For 

example, our FEMA reform legislation elevated the Fire Administrator to the position of Assistant Secretary. 

Although the Fire Administration and the Department face many significant challenges, no issue is more pressing than the continuing difficulty our first responders 

have in talking with each other in real time and on demand during times of crisis. 

In his interview with the Committee, Chief Cade explained that new technology will 

play an important role in improving emergency communications. But he also explained that we must not overlook other barriers to effective emergency communications. Non-technological barriers—such as the absence of governing agreements and 

standard operating procedures—also impede progress in this area. These are, indeed, crucial elements of our Nation’s efforts to improve emergency communications, 

and I look forward to exploring these issues with him this morning. 

I am also interested in the Chief’s perspective on the Department’s first responder 

grant programs, including the FIRE Act program. The Committee has worked hard 

to improve the grant programs that strengthen our State and local homeland security partners. 

Chief Cade began his distinguished 40-year career as a volunteer firefighter—an 

invaluable background for the position to which you have been nominated. In my 

home State of Maine, 338 of our 405 fire departments are led by volunteer chiefs. 

Nationally, more than 823,000 of our firefighters are volunteers—nearly three out 

of every four. They truly are the backbone of our Nation’s emergency response system. 

Despite the critical role of these volunteers, the Fire Administration, in its Second 

Needs Assessment for the U.S. Fire Service, noted that the number of volunteer firefighters has been in decline for the past several years. While many reasons have 

been cited for this drop, including social and economic reasons, many experts believe 

that increased training requirements and the consequent time commitments are significant factors. This trend, if not reversed, will have dire consequences for communities—especially in rural areas—and will impede our Nation’s ability to respond to 

disasters, whether man-made or natural. 

I commend Chief Cade for an outstanding career in public service and look forward to hearing his testimony.

6

1The prepared statement of Mr. Cade appears in the Appendix on page 17. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Chief Cade has filed responses to a biographical and financial questionnaire, answered prehearing questions submitted by the Committee, and has had his financial statements reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection, this information will be made part of the hearing record, with 

the exception of the financial data, which are on file and available 

for public inspection in the Committee’s offices. 

Chief, our Committee rules require that all witnesses at nomination hearings give their testimony under oath, so I would ask you 

please to stand at this time and raise your right hand. Do you 

swear that the testimony you are about to give to the Committee 

will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 

help you, God? 

Mr. CADE. I do. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you very much. Please be seated. 

Chief, I understand that your wife and children are with you 

today, and it is my pleasure on behalf of the Committee to welcome 

them and thank them for the support they have undoubtedly given 

you to bring you to this high point in your career. 

Now we would welcome your opening statement, if you have one. 

TESTIMONY OF GREGORY B. CADE,1 TO BE ADMINISTRATOR, 

U.S. FIRE ADMINISTRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. CADE. Yes, I do. Thank you, sir. 

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Senator Collins, and Members of 

the Committee. I want to take this moment to thank Senator Warner for his kind introduction. My name is Gregory Cade, and I am 

the nominee for the position of Administrator of the U.S. Fire Administration at the Department of Homeland Security. 

I am tremendously honored that the President has nominated me 

for this important position within the Department of Homeland Security to be the voice at the Federal level for the Nation’s Fire 

Service. I am here today because an awful lot of people helped me, 

from my parents who instilled a set of values that I think played 

a significant part in my being considered for this position, to the 

literally thousands of firefighters with whom I have had the honor 

to be associated. These are the people who took the time to take 

me under their wing, to mentor me, and to guide me in the right 

direction. They offered suggestions on things that I needed to do 

to improve my capabilities and gave me a swift kick at the appropriate times in my life; the most important group my family, who 

has supported me throughout my career and in that support made 

a lot of sacrifices for me to be able to achieve my dreams to get 

to be the fire chief of two outstanding cities, to spend my whole 

adult life in the Fire Service, and ultimately to be sitting here before you today, honored by the President to be the selection to head 

the U.S. Fire Administration. If it were not for my daughters 

Christie and Candace and my son Brian and, most importantly, my 

best friend, my wife, Debbie, I would not be here today. 

I have spent the last 39 years progressively moving through the 

Fire Service, from riding on the backstep of a fire truck, which I 

7

truly enjoyed, to taking on additional responsibilities as an officer 

and ultimately achieving the highest honor of being a fire chief. 

Throughout that time, I have been very fortunate to be engaged in 

a broad range of issues that have affected the Fire Service that I 

work in at the local, regional, national, and international level. 

These years of experience and support from so many other people 

have helped shape me in giving me the opportunity to see the Nation’s Fire Service evolve, as it always has, to deal with new 

threats that it is exposed to. 

It has been said numerous times that the world changed after 

September 11, and I agree because based on my experience at having been at the Pentagon and at Ground Zero in the early days 

after the event, one cannot be exposed to that and participate in 

it without walking away a changed individual. If confirmed by the 

Senate, I hope to use my experience to help the Fire Administration better prepare our Nation’s Fire Service to meet the evolving 

challenges that it faces today and in the future. 

I bring with me a personal understanding of the good work that 

the U.S. Fire Administration does. The most important thing that 

I have learned from my association with the USFA as a fire chief 

is the importance of building a network of people to provide input, 

guidance, support, and discussions over the various things that affect the Fire Service that we need to deal with. 

If confirmed, I hope to build upon the U.S. Fire Administration’s 

role in supporting our Nation’s Fire Service to continue its mission 

in the prevention of fires and the loss of life, the reduction of injuries and property loss, and ensuring that our first responders at 

the local level are ready to handle any emergency. I know as a 

front-line provider for the last 39 years that the key to successful 

operations is a well-trained, well-equipped, and well-exercised 

force. 

I also hope to strengthen USFA’s fire prevention mission. I see 

the U.S. Fire Administration as having the ability to play a tremendous role in its basic collection of data in the understanding of 

the fire problem, to look at the national trends, to work with other 

stakeholders to develop programs, and to educate and inform the 

local communities. 

We have made tremendous progress in the loss of life. There is 

no question about that. But to still lose over 3,000 people a year 

in fires is unacceptable to me. The U.S. Fire Administration can 

play an important role in helping to support research and to be an 

advocate for safer policies and procedures that can be implemented 

at the local level. 

I believe that there is true partnership that exists and should 

continue to exist between the U.S. Fire Administration and our 

State and local partners. I know that relationship is strong, and it 

is my intention to build upon the great things that take place day 

in and day out at the local level. 

In closing, let me say once again that I am here sitting before 

you because a lot of people spent the time and energy to provide 

me guidance and support. I look forward to having the opportunity 

to make them proud, and in that spirit, I humbly ask this Committee to confirm my nomination to head the U.S. Fire Administration. 

8

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to appear before 

you today, and I am happy to answer any of the questions the 

Committee may have. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you very much, Chief, for that very 

thoughtful statement. I am going to start my questioning with the 

standard questions that we ask all nominees. 

First, is there anything you are aware of in your background that 

might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to 

which you have been nominated? 

Mr. CADE. No, sir. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Second, do you know of anything personal 

or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and 

honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you 

have been nominated? 

Mr. CADE. No, sir. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Third, do you agree without reservation to 

respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before 

any duly constituted Committee of Congress if you are confirmed? 

Mr. CADE. Yes, sir. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you very much. We are going to 

start, and we will have a round of questions limited to 6 minutes 

for each of us. 

Chief, you bring a real wealth of experience from your long career in the Fire Service and Emergency Management. To the extent 

that you are able now, I wanted to ask you what you would say 

your priorities will be—you have touched on a little bit of that in 

your opening statement—and then how you see your focus in the 

reintegration, if I can put it that way, of the U.S. Fire Administration into FEMA. 

Mr. CADE. Senator, I think for me the initial priority, should I 

be confirmed, is to look at what are the continuing needs of the 

front-line Fire Service providers. I think the major role that the 

U.S. Fire Administration certainly can play is in the realm of providing training to those front-line providers through the stakeholder network that already exists at the State and local level. 

As I said in my opening statement, I think that the training aspect is a critical role for the Fire Administration that it can play. 

I have been very fortunate as the chief of Virginia Beach to participate in quite a few of the training programs that the USFA has 

that provides a clearinghouse for training to the major metropolitan departments, which I am a part of, and also at the State and 

local level. I think that is a very critical issue for them. 

I think a second priority for me is to look at how the data collection piece of the responsibility of the U.S. Fire Administration is 

being done. I think more and more we are being asked to justify 

the things that we do, and I think from a national perspective, 

without having the data to support the direction that we are going 

in, it makes it very difficult to understand whether or not the 

funds that you are expending are being spent in the appropriate 

manner. So I see that as a second priority for me. 

The third priority that I hope to be involved with is the actual 

training that goes on at the National Fire Academy. Being an executive fire officer graduate, I have found that the most important 

thing that I got out of the 4 years of that program, aside from the 

9

educational piece, was, in fact, the network of people that I have 

been able to build across this country, friendships that still exist 

today, people that I can call on for ideas. And I think that is something else that certainly can be done for me as the nominee, and 

hopefully confirmed, to head the U.S. Fire Administration. I think 

that given the amount of time, obviously, my appointment will last, 

those are three things that I intend to take a very close look at. 

As far as the U.S. Fire Administration moving back into FEMA, 

I really do not know exactly why it was moved out, so it is very 

difficult from an outside perspective to really understand all of the 

dynamics that took place. What I hope to be able to do with the 

U.S. Fire Administration moving back into FEMA is to use the two 

things that I think I come to the table with—39 years of Fire Service experience, but also 81⁄2 years as an emergency services coordinator—and having been through quite a few natural disasters not 

only in the city of Virginia Beach but Hurricane Katrina and others. 

So I think that I bring a little bit different perspective as a fire 

chief who has been through some rather large-scale natural disasters, and I think that experience, I hope, will ease that transition 

in both my fire chief experience and my emergency services. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Very good. Let me ask you about the 

grants, which concern most of us here in Congress. I am going to 

skip over the first responder grants because we have our own separate battles going on about that. But the FIRE Act grants are funded at $300 million, and SAFER Act grants would be actually totally 

eliminated. Both of those are important to firefighters. Combined, 

this would represent a reduction of 55 percent from the fiscal year 

2007 level. 

Let me ask you to, first, if you could, based on your experience 

in Virginia Beach, comment on what the Federal first responder 

grant money and perhaps FIRE Act and SAFER Act money meant 

to you in your work; and, second, if you feel you can play any role 

in advocating for some more funding for firefighters around the 

country. 

Mr. CADE. We have been very fortunate in the city of Virginia 

Beach since the inception of the FIRE Act grants. We have received 

grants 5 of the last 6 years. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. That is great. 

Mr. CADE. We have been able to couple that with some of the 

other grant monies that we have received through the Department 

of Homeland Security, and so that is one of the benefits that I see 

that we have tried to take that money and leverage it with other 

things and improve the overall capability for us at the local and regional level. That is what really we have been concentrating on. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. You know, one of the raps about these 

grants is that they have been used for purposes other than intended by Congress. I know that you used them well, but in your 

experience with other firefighters and other fire departments, were 

these grants used for what you would guess Congress intended 

them to be used for? 

Mr. CADE. As far as I know, yes, sir, they were. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. All right. Maybe an awkward question, 

but I wanted to ask you if you would comment on the extent to 

10

which you feel in the new position you can advocate for more funding for firefighters around the country. 

Mr. CADE. Well, obviously, I have not been involved in any of the 

budget deliberations, so I am not really sure why they got to the 

point they did. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. We are officially finding you not guilty. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. CADE. Thank you very much. But I certainly hope, if given 

the opportunity, if and after I am confirmed, to be able to try to 

determine why the funding levels are where they are and to be an 

advocate for it. I think that the funding at the local level improves 

the capability of the Fire Service, which provides a safer environment for all of us. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Good. Thank you. My time is up. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I am going to follow up on the Chairman’s comments on the 

FIRE Act and the SAFER Act because, as he mentioned, the Administration’s budget provides no funding for SAFER Act grants 

and it slashes the FIRE Act grant funding by $253 million. 

You obviously have had experience as a local fire chief with both 

of these programs, and you have been able to get FIRE grants. Did 

the ability to obtain Federal funding allow you to achieve certain 

capabilities that would not have been possible without those 

grants? 

Mr. CADE. Absolutely, Senator. Just as an example, one of our 

grants was used to completely upgrade all of our self-contained 

breathing apparatus to the latest standards, heads-up display so 

that people get a visual idea of how much air they are using and 

how much they have in reserve. We replaced all of the compressors 

that we had. It was a $1.5 million program. Obviously, the grant 

did not pay for all of it, but as I said earlier, we were able to leverage the grant money with city money and actually some State 

money to be able to do that. 

So that is the approach that we have taken in Virginia Beach, 

and, quite frankly, I think that my has been experience with the 

other Fire Services, they are all trying to do that, to leverage that 

money. It has been a very great program. 

Senator COLLINS. The other positive aspect of this program that 

I hear about repeatedly from my fire chiefs in Maine is that it has 

a minimum of bureaucracy, that it is peer-reviewed, and that the 

money really goes out to those who need it rather than being spent 

on administrative expenses. Is that your experience as well? 

Mr. CADE. That has been my experience not only as the chief of 

Virginia Beach, but I had the good fortune in 2003, I believe it was, 

that I actually went up to the Fire Academy and reviewed the 

grant applications as one of the reviewers. And what I have seen 

not only as a reviewer but also just as a fire chief is that those 

grants go directly to them. There is a minimal amount of bureaucracy with them. Our experience has been very positive, very easy 

to deal with, not only getting the money but closing the grants out, 

which is always—getting all the paperwork done and all that, it 

really has been a very good process for us. 

Senator COLLINS. In light of your firsthand experience and your 

new responsibilities, would you be prepared to advocate for funding 

11

for these programs going forward? Obviously, you were not involved in the budget deliberations this year, and I am not going to 

put you on the spot by asking you to comment on the inadequate 

funding levels. But going forward, would you be prepared within 

the Department to be an advocate for these programs? 

Mr. CADE. Absolutely, Senator. I intend to make my voice heard. 

I think that is part of my responsibility, as potentially the head of 

the U.S. Fire Administration, to be that voice for the Fire Service. 

And I intend to do that. 

Senator COLLINS. I am very pleased to hear that, and I think the 

Department is going to benefit from having someone with front-line 

experience with these programs who can point out just how far 

what is really a pretty modest amount of money goes in improving 

our preparedness and response capabilities nationwide. So I am 

very pleased to hear that. 

I want to talk to you about another challenge, and that is the 

interoperability issue. Our Committee produced legislation that the 

Senate has just passed that would create a new dedicated grant 

program to improve the survivability of communications equipment 

but also the interoperability of equipment, so that we do not have 

the tragic problems that we saw on September 11 and Hurricane 

Katrina where first responders cannot talk with one another. 

My hope is we will be able to follow up that authorization with 

the funding that is needed and that all of us have worked so hard 

for. But you have brought up some very interesting points that 

funding alone does not solve the interoperability problems that we 

are facing. Could you discuss with us your plans to address some 

of the non-technical and non-funding barriers to achieving interoperability? 

Mr. CADE. Well, my experience in Virginia Beach and in the 

Hampton Roads region has been evolving, obviously, over the last 

10 years since we originally got the DOD grant through the NunnLugar-Domenici program. 

We recognize that interoperability is a critical issue, but it is 

more than just having the technology to be able to speak to one another. What really is necessary is to define how that equipment is 

going to be used and, quite frankly, to practice with it. And that 

is where I have seen a lot of the downfall. 

So hopefully what I can do, should I be confirmed by the Senate, 

is to bring that experience to the conversation to help my colleagues understand that you have got to be able to bring in not 

only just the Fire Service, but you have got to have the police departments, the public works, public utilities, all of the people that 

are going to be responsible for having to communicate with each 

other in the midst and aftermath of a natural disaster. It is a critical issue. There is no question about that. The technology, in my 

opinion, is the easy piece to take care of. It is the governance piece. 

It is deciding how that equipment is going to be used. 

I used an example earlier in a conversation, I believe, with the 

staff over having the opportunity to hear the deputy chief from 

New York City after the World Trade Center bombing in 1993 tell 

us that what he ended up having to do is send runners around because the radio system was so jammed up. So it is not—they had 

the system. They just could not use it. And I think that is the conVerDate 0ct 09 2002 14:47 Jun 15, 2007 Jkt 034412 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 C:\DOCS\34412.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
12

versation that needs to take place at the national level of how do 

you use it, not just what you have to use. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Collins. 

Senator McCaskill, thanks for being here this morning. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCASKILL 

Senator MCCASKILL. Thank you. 

First, congratulations to you and your family on your appointment, and I have to share with you that you have a very good 

friend on this Committee because of my background. My father was 

a volunteer firefighter, made us chase fire trucks my entire childhood, and then when I was an assistant prosecutor, under an 

LEAA grant I was made the arson prosecutor and spent several 

years of my life doing nothing but arson prosecutions. And my assistant on this Committee, my staff assistant, also an attorney, she 

followed me as the arson prosecutor several years later. So you actually have two people who could go to a scene and do C&O with 

you. 

Mr. CADE. Oh, great. 

Senator MCCASKILL. We could actually talk about charring and 

burn patterns and so forth. And I used to respond to fires in my 

gear when it was determined to be an arson, so I consider what you 

do very important and am anxious to be very supportive of the Fire 

Service in this country. 

I wanted to briefly ask you first about the expensive hazmat 

teams and how expensive it is for particularly mid-sized cities. I 

think most of our major urban areas have the expertise and the resources to be able to do hazmat. And what I worry about is these 

PPE suits. When I was the auditor in Missouri, we did an audit 

and determined that a lot of the PPE equipment that came through 

the homeland security grants, they were spread like shotgun blasts 

across our State. And when we did the audit looking at those 

grants, many of them still sat in boxes. Many of them had not been 

utilized, and there had not been training on even how to utilize 

them. 

Do you think in your position through the NFA you could begin 

some kind of long-distance training to go back and determine from 

these departments, whether they be fire departments—a lot of 

these are volunteer departments spread throughout the country—

either say to them you need to take this long-distance training 

through NFA or we need to take your suits that are still in boxes 

and distribute them to places that have had the training that have 

not received the suits? 

Mr. CADE. Well, first of all, let me congratulate you on learning 

how to be an arson prosecutor because that is an extremely difficult thing. 

Senator MCCASKILL. I loved it. Give me a circumstantial evidence case. That is the most fun. The problem I had was getting 

the firefighters to quit busting down the doors without checking to 

see if it was locked first. That was one of the problems I had. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. CADE. That is certainly a training issue. No question about 

that. 

13

Senator MCCASKILL. It is a training issue. 

Mr. CADE. From the hazardous materials response side, my experience has been, at least in the Hampton Roads region, and also 

in Maryland when I was there, we participate as part of a regional 

team, and that is how the Commonwealth of Virginia has theirs set 

up. So that there are people trained at the local level—I am a certified hazardous materials ops level person—and then we—because 

we participate in a regional hazmat team, we are required to keep 

two hazardous material specialists on duty. I realize that is a little 

technical, but it is the highest level of training. 

And so that is how we have looked at doing it, and I think that 

same type of program obviously can be replicated across the country, where everyone has a basic understanding of what they need 

to do. Hazardous materials incidents usually evolve over time. 

They are usually not a very quickly evolving incident. So that if 

you have people that are at least trained at the initial levels, they 

can get in and start to do some things, start to lay out the hazardous material zones, hot zones, and those kinds of things, and 

then bring in the response capability and cleanup capability later. 

That to me makes the most sense. 

We struggle all the time at keeping the training level up to 

where it needs to be. We do a quarterly drill in our area—that is 

how the Commonwealth does it—in addition to what we do on a 

regular monthly basis within the cities. So training is a critical 

issue, and I can see—I know the U.S. Fire Administration is putting a very heavy emphasis now on distance learning, and I think 

by building that partnership between the U.S. Fire Administration, 

the State agencies, and then ultimately the local agencies, that it 

is an easy way to leverage that training so that everyone has access to it and being able to provide time to it. I know you have 

talked about it, and Senator Collins and Senator Lieberman. 

I read this morning in the USA Today paper, which caught my 

eye that the numbers of volunteers have dropped this last year, 4 

million people less volunteering. We have seen that in the Fire 

Service, the same thing. So training time to people that are volunteering is highly critical, and that is where I see us being able to 

leverage it at the National Fire Academy and with the State and 

local partners. 

Senator MCCASKILL. When you were with Prince Georges County, in the 1980s, I assume, were you still fighting fires in the 

1980s? 

Mr. CADE. Yes. 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. And you moved up into various positions of responsibility. 

Mr. CADE. Yes, I did. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Was there ever a time when you were either 

fighting the fires or as a bureau chief that you did not see the men 

and women of Prince Georges County that proudly wore the uniform of the firefighter ever fail to respond to any kind of emergency 

that they were directed to respond to? 

Mr. CADE. I have never seen that happen, no. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Ever? 

Mr. CADE. No. 

14

Senator MCCASKILL. And you never witnessed any act of failure 

to be as brave as one could possibly imagine in terms of confronting 

danger? 

Mr. CADE. Never. 

Senator MCCASKILL. I do want to point out for the record, Mr. 

Chairman, that Prince Georges County has been operating under 

a collective bargaining agreement since the early 1980s. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. You remain a great litigator, Senator 

McCaskill, a great advocate. There is, as you may have gathered, 

another dispute going on here. 

Chief, your answers have been very thoughtful. You are a very 

impressive nominee for this position. I appreciate your willingness 

to take it on, and the President has nominated you. 

We are going to try to move your nomination as quickly as we 

possibly can through the Committee and through the Senate as 

well, so unless you have anything else to say, I am prepared to 

wind up the hearing. 

Mr. CADE. No. I just want to thank you all for taking the time. 

And, Senator, in the interest of full disclosure, I am still a cardcarrying member of Local 1619. [Laughter.] 

Senator MCCASKILL. All right. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. I was going to say, we will try to keep 

that quiet from the Administration. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Right, until you get through. 

Mr. CADE. They control my pension. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks very much. Would you for the 

record, before we close, like to personally introduce your family 

members or anybody else behind you? 

Mr. CADE. Yes, I would love to. I have with me today my wife, 

Debbie, who has graced me with being my wife for the last 35-plus 

years. So I am very fortunate. She was saying coming over in the 

car today that the only reason I started dating her was she lived 

down the street from the firehouse. [Laughter.] 

Which is not totally true. It may have been why I started dating 

her, but obviously after 35 years of marriage, there is a lot more 

to it. So I am very fortunate that she is here with me. 

Also with me is my brother-in-law, Jesse Brown. And a long-time 

good friend Bill Hayden is here with me. And from the IAFC, a 

very good friend and council member of the city of Charlottesville, 

Virginia, the fire chief—oh, I am sorry. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Chief, welcome. 

Mr. CADE. I did not see my sister sneak in behind me. Julian 

Taliaferro, obviously, the city council member from Charlottesville. 

And my sister, Allison, and her husband, David, are here. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. How about those good-looking young people there behind you, the first row. 

Mr. CADE. Well, these wonderful first-row people work for the 

Department of Homeland Security, and they have lovingly helped 

me through this whole process. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Good. 

Mr. CADE. They have been great. 

Senator COLLINS. His handlers. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. That is good. 

15

Mr. CADE. You will probably see a whole lot more of them than 

me—I hope. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. I think they had some good material to 

work with. I thank you. 

Without objection, the record of the hearing will be kept open 

until 5 p.m. tomorrow for the submission of any written statements 

or questions for the record. 

Thank you very much. This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 10:42 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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