1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

WASHINGTON, D.C. MOTION CONFERENCE IN THE MATTER OF: 

### FEB 182014 

## HEARINGDOC ET FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, Complainant, v. FDMS No. FAA-2013- 0045 WORLDWIDE AIRCRAFT SERVICES, INC., Respondent. Friday, January 31, 2014 Via Teleconference The motion conference came on for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge

(202)234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comAPPEARANCES: On Behalf of the Complainant: WILLIAM P. VINES, ESQ. Office of the Regional Counsel Southern Region Federal Aviation Administration P.O. Box 20636 Atlanta, GA 30320 (404) 305-5200 ( 404 ) 305-52 2 3 (Fax) On Behalf of the Respondent: MICHAEL A. HONEYCUTT President of: Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc. Co/ JET I.C.U. 2561 Rescue Way Brooksville, FL 34604 (352) 796-2540 (352) 792-2549 (Fax)

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(202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com3 1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 10:33 a.m. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the 4 record in the Matter of worldwide Services, 5 Inc. This is Docket No. FAA-2013-0075. 6 Today is Friday, January31, 2014, 7 and the parties have convened for a motion 8 conference prior to the March 2014 hearing. 9 The FAA is represented by its 10 attorneyof record, Mr. WilliamP. Vines. He 11 is appearing by telephone. 12 The Respondent is represented by 13 its President, Mr. Michael A. Honeycutt. He 14 is also appearing by telephone. 15 Sitting as an observer with Mr. 16 Honeycuttandparticipatingas an observerin 17 these proceedings is his assistant, Sarah 18 Guenther. 19 Also present at the Office of 20 Hearings, seated as observers only, are Mr. 21 Cody L. Smith, an attorney advisor at this 22 office, andMr. AndyOrr, a law student intern

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com4 1 with this office. 2 Good morning, everyone. 3 I'll note that, essentially, the 4 last time we convened was on January 8th, 5 2014. The parties appeared by telephone for 6 a scheduledprehearingconference. Andduring 7 that time, the parties discusseda varietyof 8 different issues. And as a result, this 9 conference was scheduled and some new 10 deadlinesweregivento thepartiesto address 11 ongoing litigation concerns. 12 A January 9, 2014 Order set a 13 Motion Conference and additional litigation 14 deadlines was then filed. As a result, on 15 January lOth, 2014, the FAA filed its Motion 16 in Limine. On January 16, 2014, the 17 Respondent filed the Respondent's Motion to 18 Compel. On January 22nd, 2014, the FAA filed 19 its Response to the Respondent's Motion to 20 Compel. On January28th, 2014, the Respondent 21 filed its Response to the FAA's Motion in 22 Limine.

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1 I'll note that, after those 2 responses were filed, there was some email 3 correspondencewith the partiesby the Office 4 of Hearings staff. And I'll simplynote that 5 that email correspondenceappearstohavebeen 6 limited to the Motion to Compel and the 7 Response to the Motion to Compel, and I'll 8 identifythosea littlemore specificallywhen 9 we turn to that particular motion for 10 argument. 11 Let's start, then, with the Motion 12 in Limine that was filed by the FAA. Before 13 I ask questions or take argument, I want to 14 ask a few preliminary questions of both 15 parties, starting with the FAA. 16 Mr. Vines, you have indicatedthat 17 youhadreceivedfromthe Respondenta variety 18 of different answers to FAA Request for 19 Discovery, which included requests for 20 admissions and other discovery. You did not 21 provide a copy of the actual discovery 22 responses. So, I do not know who signed the

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWIN.nealrgross.com6 1 Respondent's Discovery Request, the date it 2 was signed, or the date that you received it. 3 Can you supplement the record orally for me 4 now? 5 MR. VINES: With regard to the 6 responses I received

-- 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm sorry, 8 sir, I can't hear you. You sound as if you 9 are away from the phone. Can you speak up, 10 please? 11 MR. VINES: Yes. So, again, you 12 would like the date in which the Respondent 13 replied to the Agency's Discovery Request? 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I need to know 15 who respondedonbehalfof the Respondent, the 16 identityof the personwho actually submitted 17 the response. I need to know the date that 18 the responseswere signed, and I need to know 19 when you received the responses. 20 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. I 21 received, if I recall correctly, two sets of 22 responses. The Respondent replied, but was

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1 not complete in their responses. In other 2 words, the Respondent did not answer all the 3 questions, andtheRequestsforAdmissionsand 4 Request for Productions that I sent. 5 So, I do have in front of me 6 Respondent'sResponsetoComplainant'sRequest 7 for Admissions, signed by Mr. Honeycutt, and 8 it was emailedto me on September 6th of 2013. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right. Is 10 that the response package that you received 11 that you're quoting from in your Motion in 12 Limine? 13 MR. VINES: Just one minute, 14 Judge. 15 (Pause.) 16 Yes, Judge, in my Motion in 17 Limine, paragraph (2) , there were two sets of 18 responses, and the first set was receivedor, 19 rather, submitted by the Respondent on 20 September 6th of 2013. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, let me 22 make sure I've gottenall the informationfrom

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com8 1 you. You have filed a Motion ln Limine 2 asserting that on June 27, 2013, you 3 propounded your first set of discovery 4 requests, and then, on September6th, 2013 and 5 again on December 4, 2013, the Respondent 6 provided responses. 7 So, all of the responses that you 8 are identifying in your January 10, 2014 are 9 from the responses you received from Mr. 10 Honeycutt on December 6th, 2013? 11 MR. VINES: On September 6th, 2013 12 and December 4th of 2013. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me try 14 and do this again. Can you tell me which of 15 the responses you got when, and were they all 16 signed by Mr. Honeycutt? And if so, what 17 dates were they signed before you received 18 them? 19 MR. VINES: Again, I received 20 responses that were signed, again, September 21 6, 2013. All the responsesthat were received 22 that were dated

-- that I received that were

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com9 1 dated on that date were, in fact, signed by 2 Mr. Honeycutt. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, the 4 date of signature for having replied is also 5 the date of receipt? 6 MR. VINES: Again, he emailed 7 those to me and, also, sent those by mail. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, Mr. 9 Vines, I'm sorry that I'm not making myself 10 more clear. I just need to know when they 11 were signed by the Respondent and when you 12 receivedthem. And oftentimes, those are two 13 different dates. 14 But, from what I'm hearing from 15 you, you're tellingme that Mr. Honeycuttwas 16 the sole person who responded to all FAA 17 RequestsforDiscoveryandthathe signedthem 18 on September 6th, 2013 and December 4, 2013 19 and served them on you the same day? 20 MR. VINES: No, Judge. Again, 21 what I'm trying to say is I have two sets of 22 discoveryrequests, two setsof responsesthat

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1 were submitted by Worldwide Aircraft. The 2 first set I received by email on September 3 6th, 2013. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I 'm going to 5 stop you. I'll stop you right now. 6 So, when you received those email 7 responses on September 6th, 2013, were the 8 responses signed and dated as September 6th, 9 2013 by Mr. Honeycutt? 10 MR. VINES: That's correct. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And then, 12 whenyoureceivedadditionaldiscoveryanswers 13 from the Respondenton December4, 2013, were 14 those responses also signed and dated that 15 same day, December 4, 2013? 16 MR. VINES: Judge, let me look at 17 those. 18 (Pause.) 19 Judge, to answer your question, 20 the responses were sent by email to me on 21 December4th, the secondset of responsesfrom 22 WorldwideAircraftwere sent tome onDecember

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com11 1 4th, 2013, from an individual by the name of 2 Lisa Aleski. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And can you spell 4 the first and last name for me, please? 5 MR. VINES: Yes. L-I-S-A is the 6 spellingof the first name. The last name is 7 spelled A-L-E-S-K-I. 8 And those were sent to me, and 9 those responses, all the responseswere dated 10 December4th and signedby Michael Honeycutt. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay. So, 12 Mr. Honeycutt again was the respondingparty 13 for the responsesyou receivedthat were dated 14 December 14, 2013? 15 (Pause.) 16 Mr. Vines? 17 MR. VINES: Yes. Yes, ma'am. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Could you 19 answer that question, please? 20 MR. VINES: I'm sorry, I thought 21 that was directedto Mr. Honeycutt. Will you 22 please repeat the question?

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I will tell 2 Mr. Honeycutt and you when I changemy focus. 3 I'm trying to make sure that I know who the 4 responding party was for the Respondent's 5 responsesthatwere sent toyouon December4, 6 2013. And from I can hear from you, you're 7 tellingus thatMr. Honeycutt signedanddated 8 those on behalf of the Respondent? 9 MR. VINES: That's correct, Judge. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you 11 so much. 12 Yes, in the future, just so that 13 you know, you want to be sure and send me 14 copies of the relevant discovery that you're 15 using, so that I have a complete record of 16 when they were returned to you, in part, 17 because I have to look at whether or not 18 you'rewithinthetimeframeforcomplyingwith 19 discovery and with motions for problems that 20 arise because of any alleged deficiencies in 21 discovery. 22 I also have to know who the

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com13 1 respondingpartywas in terms of the discovery 2 to determine whether or not they had the 3 authoritytomake those responses andbindthe 4 company or business or individual to those 5 answers. 6 I mean, there's things that I have 7 to check that you may not be arguing. So, I 8 appreciate you looking at that. 9 And now, I'm going to go to Mr. 10 Honeycutt. 11 Mr. Honeycutt, I want to chat with 12 you very briefly about some of the answers 13 that are contained in the FAA's Motion in 14 Limine. And I'mgoing to turn specificallyto 15 page 2 of the Motion. 16 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have that 18 with you? 19 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. At the top 21 of page 2, there are paragraphs identifiedas 22 paragraph (a) as in apple, (b) as in ball, and

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1 (c) as in cat. Do you see those? 2 MR. HONEYCUTT: I do, Your Honor. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. It's my 4 understanding from talking just now to Mr. 5 Vines that you were the person responding to 6 all of the discovery requests that the FAA 7 sent to your business. Is that correct? 8 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, Your Honor, 9 that is correct. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And 11 accordingto the FAA, on page 2 of its Motion 12 in Limine, at the top of the page under the 13 paragraphentitled (a) as inapple, theyasked 14 you, quote, "Do you disputeBrandonPlas' June 15 8, 2009 statement to Robert Donahue?" End 16 quote. And that's only a partial quote. 17 MR. HONEYCUTI: Yes, ma'am. Go 18 ahead. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: There was also a 20 statement following that saying, quote, ''If 21 so, please provide the specific facts which 22 you dispute and why (This statement was

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODEISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com15 1 providedto you on or about June 22nd, 2011, 2 as part of the release of portions of the 3 Enforcement Investigative Report)." End 4 quote. 5 Do you see all of that? 6 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am, I do, 7 Your Honor. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. According 9 to Mr. Vines, the response he received from 10 you was, quote, "None." End quote. 11 MR. HONEYCUTT: Again, Your Honor, 12 Mr. Vines, I sent him Answers to 13 Interrogatories, Answers to Produce, and 14 Answers for what's the other one? 15 Interrogatories and Request to Produce. 16 Anyway, I sentMr. Vines those answers, andhe 17 sent back, wanted more detailed information. 18 So, our responses are, when I sent 19 back on December that we were talking about 20 earlier on that timeline, in my Amended 21 Answers to the Interrogatories. So, again, 22 you askedMr. Vines, and I'ma littleconfused

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1 which sets of Answers that I sent him is 2 referencedin limine. Is it the first set of 3 discovery that I gave him in September, I 4 believe it was, we said, or the second set of 5 Answers, the Amended Answers to 6 Interrogatories and discovery produced? 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, let's 8 talk about that just a little bit. So, what 9 did you mean, essentially, when the response 10 was "none"? Was it

-- can you just tell me 11 again what that meant for you? 12 MR. HONEYCUTT: Your Honor, I 13 think I'm trying to find my file here. I've 14 got it, but I'm looking to find what we 15 actually admit to -- so, I'm not sure about 16 ''none 11 • "Admit Allegation 1. Admits 17 Allegation 2. Denies" this is ln 18 response 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I'm going 20 to ask you to think quietly to yourself, if 21 you're looking through some papers. 22 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. And what I 2 would like you to do is look at the Motion in 3 Limine, page 2, top of the page. 4 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And it's my 6 understanding from what you've said so far 7 that this was part of a larger discovery 8 response. Can you -- 9 MR. HONEYCUTT: Well, there's two 10 sets of Answers, Your Honor. I've said the 11 first set was answered, and this answer of the 12 response of ''none'' may have been in the first 13 one, of my Responseto the Interrogatories,or 14 it could have been ln the second set of 15 Interrogatories. And that'swhat I was asking 16 Mr. Vines to clarify, which the response 17 11none11 , was it from the first set or the 18 second set? 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, it's 20 not for you to have a dialog with Mr. Vines 21 right now. 22 MR. HONEYCUTT: Okay.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If I want to hear 2 from him, I'll let him know. 3 I'm just asking you to tell me 4 what you recall, if you recall anything. And 5 it sounds to me like you're saying that you 6 were asked about this more than once. 7 MR. HONEYCUTT: I was, Your Honor. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's go to 9 paragraph (b) as inboy on page 2 of the FAA's 10 Motion in Limine. And I won't read this 11 particularparagraph since you have it before 12 you. Can you explainif your response, quote, 13 "none," endquote, is similarto yourresponse 14 to the one in paragraph (a) , or was there a 15 different rationale that you were giving for 16 this answer? 17 MR. HONEYCUTT: Where I'm at 18 currently on those two, (a) and (b), is I do 19 not dispute the statement of Eric Price and 20 Brandon Plas. I do not dispute their written 21 statementsto InspectorDonahue. I agree that 22 those are their statements.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well

-- 2 MR. HONEYCUTT: And I don't 3 dispute their statements. I don't dispute 4 their statements, Your Honor. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But when you say 6 youdon't disputetheirstatements, I guessmy 7 question to you is, does this mean that you 8 don't dispute that theygave those particular 9 statements or are you saying that you don't 10 dispute the truth of what those statements 11 contain? 12 MR. HONEYCUTT: I don't dispute 13 themgivingthe statementsandI don'tdispute 14 that what they said is the truth. My dispute 15 is the assumption and allegation that is 16 concludedfromtheirstatementsthatMr. Vines 17 has written in the Complaint. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And that being 19 what, in your opinion? 20 MR. HONEYCUTT: I wouldhave to go 21 back and re-read the Complaint, to the point 22 that, again, what I'm saying is I don't

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1 dispute Brandon Plas and Eric Price's 2 statement. I believe they made a truthful 3 statement. I don't agree with Mr. Vines' 4 conclusionthat we validatedthe FAR based on 5 partly those two statements. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 7 MR. HONEYCUTT: So, there's more 8 to the allegations and to the Complaint. To 9 draw the conclusion from just those two 10 statements, I don't agree with that. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That's 12 very helpful. 13 Now let's go to paragraph (c) as 14 ln cat, which, again, is on page 2 of the 15 FAA's Motion in Limine. There was a Request 16 for Production of three years of financial 17 statements or tax records. And your response 18 was, quote, "Not applicable." End quote. 19 Why, in your opinion, is this not 20 applicable? 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: I'm not trying to 22 claim that I would be unable to pay the fine

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1 of the $12,375 penalty. Therefore, I would 2 not have to produce tax returns, show that I 3 was unable topay that. I couldpay the fine. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I just 5 want to make sure that you understand that 6 part of your affirmative defenses on the 7 proposedcivilpenaltyincludetheopportunity 8 to raise financial limitation. And so, if you 9 don't want to raise those affirmative 10 defenses, you don't have to for mitigating 11 circumstances, but, then, I wouldn't be able 12 to take into considerationarguments that you 13 make in your case-in-chief or at the end of 14 the case that you couldn't afford to pay. I 15 couldn't find those to be very persuasive if 16 youdon'tprovidefinancialdocumentation. It 17 sounds to me like you know that, but I just 18 wanted to make sure. 19 MR. HONEYCUTT: I understand that 20 -- I understand. I could make the payment, 21 Your Honor, yes. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You don 1t want to

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON,D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com22 1 raise a financial inability or problems as 2 part of your defense in this case? That's 3 what I'm hearing from you. 4 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, I 'm not going 5 to make that part of the defense, an aspect. 6 I would like to request that if I am found in 7 violationand the penaltyis upheld, and that 8 amount is the amount that we're going to go 9 after, that I would possiblyhave the option 10 to negotiatea paymentplan. But do I need to 11 producethose documents now? I wouldhave to 12 make that decision now, if I want to -- 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, a payment 14 plan is different from having the ability to 15 pay. 16 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And typically, I 18 do not get involved in structuring payment 19 plans as part of my decisionmakingprocess. 20 Usually, I leave that to the parties. 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am, and 22 that's the question I guess I'm asking, is if

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1 we can -- I couldpay the fine if I had to at 2 the end of the day. I would like, if not 3 foundguilty, not to-- well, I mean, if found 4 guilty, though, to have an optiontoworkwith 5 them on paying it. But I have to, if it 6 requires producing three years of statements 7 andeverythingright now, to delay, I wouldgo 8 with I would be able to pay the fine. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I 10 understand. 11 Mr. Vines, let me chat with you 12 about installmentpayments. Typically, I do 13 not get involved in ordering payment plans, 14 for various reasons. Do you still do that if 15 you go to a hearing and a civil penalty is 16 awarded? Do you still engage in paymentplan 17 discussions with the opposing party? 18 MR. VINES: Judge, I don't have 19 the answer for that. Normally, in settlement 20 discussions we do if asked by the parties to 21 enter an installmentor a payment plan, we do 22 discuss that. But I'm not familiar with our

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com24 1 process where we go to a hearing and a judge 2 finds in favor of the Agency and orders a 3 particular civil penalty. I'm not sure what 4 the Agency does at that point. I'll be happy 5 to look into that and provide an answer to 6 both you and Mr. Honeycutt. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I can tell 8 you that, according to the regulations, you 9 still have the authority to engage in 10 structuring a payment plan, even after 11 hearing, as I read the regulation. 12 MR. VINES: Okay, Judge. And for 13 your information, this is the first time I've 14 gotten this far in a DOT civil penalty 15 proceeding. So, I am, too, on a learning 16 curve in this particularjurisdiction. So, I 17 will definitely research that and provide an 18 answer to you and the attorney. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That would 20 be helpful because, if your Agency takes the 21 positionthat you would ratherhave me do it, 22 I'mhappyto do it. But, typically, as I read

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com25 1 the regulation and some of the case law, 2 because this issue has come up before me 3 before, theAgencypreferstokeep that option 4 for itself, even after a decisionby a judge 5 is issued. 6 So, if you don't prefer that and 7 you would like me to take that on as part of 8 the case decision, I'mhappy to do it. But I 9 would prefer to tip to my hat to you, if you 10 would like to retain that ability. And the 11 regulations don't prevent you from doing it. 12 MR. VINES: Thank you, Judge. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're welcome. 14 Okay. Then, my originalquestions 15 are addressed. 16 Mr. Vines, we can do the Motion in 17 Limineportionfor you in two differentways. 18 I can just give you about five minutes to do 19 an overview, if you would like, and then, 20 reserve my questions to the end of that or I 21 can ask you my questions first, and then, let 22 you sum up after. Which is your preference?

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com26 1 MR. VINES: I guess we can do the 2 latter, Judge. I think the motion is just 3 straightforwardas to the basically, if I 4 recall correctly, Judge, you asked that I 5 submit this to the Court in light of the 6 nature of the litigation, that being a pro se 7 Respondent. 8 And again, these are just facts 9 that I've asked to be, I guess, in lack of a 10 betterterm, just stipulatingto, andthatwas 11 the purpose of filing this motion, Judge. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, 13 let's talk about a couple of them. 14 You had requestedthat the request 15 for admissionNos. 1, 2, 4, and-- let me see 16

-- 4 and 5 be deemed admitted as true. And I 17 would simplynote that thosehave alreadybeen 18 addressedby the January 9, 2014 Court Order. 19 So, those requestsfor admissionshave already 20 been deemed admittedby a party agreement and 21 confirmedby the Court. So, that portion of 22 the motion to me is moot.

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1 MR. VINES: Okay. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The next section, 3 you're talking about requests for admission 4 Nos. 12, 15, 16, and 17. And those are 5 contained on pages 2, 3, and 4 of the Motion 6 in Limine. 7 As I read the Respondent's 8 responsive materials, again, those are non9 disputedand it'snon-disputed,and I '11 check 10 with Mr. Honeycutt before I make a final 11 ruling. Then, those, again, would be 12 confirmed by the Court. 13 I think the concern, based on the 14 material that I have received, is your 15 assertion that, even with those admissions, 16 that the paragraph No. 10 in the FAA's 17 Complaint is, therefore, proved. And I want 18 you to take a look at paragraph 10 of the 19 Complaint with me, if you would be so kind. 20 And I want to ask you if you can 21 explain to me how paragraph 10 would be 22 conclusivelyprovenwiththosefewadmissions.

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1 And the reason I ask that is because those 2 admissions basically say that there was a 3 failure to disconnect the ground power unit, 4 which we can all refer to as the "GPU" today, 5 before the flight crew took off for a flight 6 on May 3rd, 2009. 7 The admissions also say that, on 8 May 20th, 2009, whichwas 17 days later, there 9 was maintenanceperformedon the same aircraft 10 where the GPU receptaclewas replaced. But I 11 don't see ln these four new admissions the 12 assertion that there's a proof of actual 13 damage on May 3rd, 2009, and that that was the 14 damage that was deferred for maintenance for 15 17 days. And I'm wondering if I'm missing 16 something. 17 MR. VINES: The damage referredto 18 on May 3rd --to make sure, you're saying 19 there was damage reported on May 20th, but 20 you're not making the connectionto the issue 21 of May 3rd, the deferral? 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. I'm

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com29 1 thinkingthat yourMotioninLimine

-- and I 'm 2 looking at page 3, which has paragraphs 3 identifiedas (e) as in egg, (f) as in Frank, 4 referring to, respectively, the request for 5 admissions 12 and 15. So, I have an admission 6 saying there was 

### a takeoff without 7 disconnecting the GPU on May 3rd, 2009, and 8 then, 17 days later, on May 20, 2009, a GPU 9 receptacle was replaced. 10 And then, I look at paragraph 10 11 of yourComplaint, becausepart of yourMotion 12 in Limine says that these admissions prove 13 paragraph 10. There was a detection of 14 damage, and then, the Respondent deferred 15 repair of the damage to a later date. 16 And I'm not quite sure that I 17 agree withyou that thematerial that you have 18 submittedconclusivelyproves paragraph 10 ln 19 your Complaint, because you're asking me to 20 prohibit the Respondent from challenging 21 evidence about paragraph 10. And before I do 22 that, I have to understandyour thinking and

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com30 1 agreement with it. 2 MR. VINES: Judge, again, I'm 3 looking throughmy Motion in Limine, and I'm 4 not seeing the reference to the paragraph in 5 the Complaint. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You have, 7 on page 4 of your Motion in Limine, under 8 paragraph V, which is Roman numeral V, a 9 statement saying that the Respondent's 10 admission to the request for admissions 12, 11 15, 16, and 17 are relevant and support the 12 allegations contained in paragraphs 3 and 10 13 of the Complaint. 14 And then, you ask for reliefunder 15 paragraph 6 on page 4 of your Motion in 16 Limine. And part of that relief is to 17 prohibit the Respondent from presenting 18 evidence on those matters. 19 And so, I'm a little concerned 20 because I am not sure that you've made the 21 case. And if you have and I've missed it, I 22 want to giveyou anopportunitynow to explain

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WINW.nealrgross.com31 1 that to me. 2 Do you see your request on page 4 3 of the Motion in Limine? 4 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Am I missing 6 something in terms of the analysis of those 7 factual pieces of information to the 8 allegationof paragraph 10 in your Complaint? 9 MR. VINES: Judge, the reference 10 to paragraph 12 is tied in with a statement 11 made by, I believe, the mechanic who wrote a 12 statement regarding damage to the aircraft 13 related to the GPU. And I guess what I'm 14 tryingto say, and I didn't articulateit very 15 clearly, is that paragraph

-- Administrator's 16 request for admission No. 12 and response 17 thereto is tied in with a statement made by 18 the mechanic and I believe the pilot of this 19 aircraftregardingthe damage. And those are 20 intertwined. 21 Specifically, that on page 3, the 22 paragraph (4) (b), where I talk about the

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com32 1 flight crew operating the aircraft in which 2 they taxied and took off without first 3 disconnectingthe groundpower unit, when you 4 combine that with the statement -- 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm going to 6 stop you. You're still talking about the 7 Complaint? Or are you referring back to the 8 Motion in Limine? 9 MR. VINES: I'm sorry, the Motion 10 ln Limine on page 3. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 12 MR. VINES: We're looking at 13 paragraph (4) (e) regarding request for 14 admission No. 12, is what I'm focusing on. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 16 MR. VINES: So, that, combined 17 witha statementmadeby, I believe, the pilot 18 and mechanic, which Mr. Honeycutt and we have 19 discussedearlier, andhe does not disputethe 20 veracityor the truth of the matter contained 21 inthose statements, thosestatementscombined 22 with paragraph, request for admissionNo. 12,

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com33 1 goes to showthat therewas damage andthat it 2 was deferred. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, let 1s go to 4 those statements then. So, I have before me 5 GovernmentExhibitNo. 1, whichwas apparently 6 submittedby a Brandon Plas, P as in Paul, L 7 as in llama, A as in apple, S as in Sam. And 8 it'stwo pages long. He was identifiedas the 9 pilot in command or the PIC. 10 So, show me in this statement 11 where he is asserting that there was damage 12 that he saw before he took off from his first 13 station. I think it was Brooksville. 14 (Pause.) 15 MR. VINES: If you look at the 16 first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth 17 paragraph, he states, "The PIC turned off the 18 GPU and ran inside to turn off the power and 19 burner, but forgot to disconnect the GPU from 20 the aircraft." 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I saw that. And 22 howdoes that translateintodamageto the GPU

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com34 1 unit on the aircraft? 2 MR. VINES: That is what the 3 Agency is arguing caused the damage to the 4 GPU. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, but I don't 6 have an affirmative statement, at least that 7 I can see in this particular report by Mr. 8 Plas that he identifiesthis as damage to the 9 GPU on the aircraft, eitherbeforehe took off 10 or afterhe landed. And that'smy concern, is 11 that I cannot make assumptions as to what 12 damage means or what it meant to him, or 13 whetheror not he perceivedthat as damage and 14 just didn't mean to-- just forgot to say it. 15 MR. VINES: Okay. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, is it your 17 argument that I should simply presume that, 18 because he forgot to disconnect the GPU from 19 the aircraft, that it was damaged at that 20 point? 21 MR. VINES: That's the argument 22 we'll be making, Judge, yes.

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE.N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com35 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Is there 2 anything on the letter that was submitted as 3 GovernmentExhibitNo. 2, authoredby an Eric 4 Price, spelled P as in Paul, R as in Robert, 5 I as in igloo, C as in cat, E as in egg, that 6 would add to your argument regarding your 7 request for a limitationof the Respondent's s case at trial? 9 MR. VINES: I believe

-- let me 10 reference the document, Judge. 11 (Pause.) 12 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge, it would 13 be the third paragraph. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what in the 15 thirdparagraph, inyouropinion, is relevant? 16 MR. VINES: It states that Mr. 17 Plas was approachedby line crewpersonnel in 18 MarshHarbor about the problemconnectingthe 19 GPU. He was unable to connect the GPU

-- 20 discussed with me that we might have taxied 21 the airplane with the GPU connected because 22 the GPU receptacle pin was bent.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And is it 2 your assertion that, because there was a 3 report that the GPU receptaclepin was bent, 4 that that equates to damage? 5 THE COURT REPORTER: Mr. Vines, 6 can you please try to make an effort to speak 7 up or come off speaker off? I'm not sure 8 what's going on. 9 MR. VINES: Yes. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'11 note that 11 the court reporter just interrupted and 12 addressed a comment to Mr. Vines. 13 Mr. Court Reporter, in the future 14 please address it to me and I'll take care of 15 it. 16 THE COURT REPORTER: Sure. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 18 Mr. Vines, you are fading in and 19 out. So, if you're on a speakerphone, I need 20 to have you either be right next to your 21 speaker phone or, if it doesn't help, we'll 22 tell you and we'11 have you pick up the

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com37 1 speaker handset. 2 MR. VINES: Thank you, Judge. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're welcome. 4 Okay. Okay. Thank you. 5 Anything else that you would like 6 the Court to consider in your Motion in 7 Limine? 8 MR. VINES: No, Judge. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 10 Honeycutt, let me turn to you. You've heard 11 the argument by Mr. Vines. What is your 12 response to that? 13 MR. HONEYCUTT: Exactly, Your 14 Honor, that I don't see a conclusion drawn 15 between Mr. Plas' statement nor Mr. Price's 16 statement, referencethempossiblytaxiingout 17 with the GPU plug still connected from its 18 original departure point and drawing a 19 conclusion that the aircraft was damaged. 20 And, in particular, where he 21 referencesinthe ComplaintNo. 10, "Afterthe 22 taxiing damage listed in paragraph 8,

NEALR. GROSS (202)234A433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com38 1 Worldwidedeferreddamage or repairat a later 2 date." 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What if I were to 4 assert to you that well, let me change 5 that. Let me ask you this: are you planning 6 to call Mr. Plas and/or Mr. Price as part of 7 your case-in-chief? 8 MR. HONEYCUTT: If Mr. Vines has 9 them-- I don't need to have Mr. Plas or Mr. 10 Price there, YourHonor. Like I said, I agree 11 with their statements. I find their 12 statementstruthful. I don'tbelievethat the 13 Administratorhas proven that, based on those 14 two statements and based on the aircraft 15 having maintenance done on the 20th, that 16 damage was deferred. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let 18 me redirect. Let's assume, just for the sake 19 of argument, that I accept your assertionand 20 Mr. Vines' assertionthat the statementsmade 21 by Mr. Plas andMr. Price that are attachedto 22 the FAA's Motion in Limine as Exhibits 1 and

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com39 1 2 should be deemed admitted as true. And if 2 I do that, Mr. Vines may not need to call 3 either witness. He could simply say, "These 4 are the facts that have been deemed admitted 5 as true, and you may take all reasonable 6 inferences from them, absent a challenge by 7 the Respondent." 8 In that case, Mr. Vines may not 9 need to call Mr. Plas or Mr. Price, at which 10 point would you be calling them? 11 MR. HONEYCUTT: No, ma'am. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Then, if you 13 aren't calling them, would you be calling 14 someone else to testify about what damage 15 means and why a reasonable inference should 16 not be made that a bent GPU receptor equals 17 damage? 18 MR. HONEYCUTT: I would probably, 19 yes, rna ram/ use the Inspectors that 20 investigated the allegation, Donahue, 21 Schaefer, as well as Paul Kahler, my Director 22 of Maintenance, and Brian Fanning, my Lead

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com40 1 Mechanic. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 3 MR. HONEYCUTT: I would use those 4 individuals, the FAA Maintenance Inspector, 5 PrimaryOps Inspector, andAvionics Inspector 6 or I'm sorry the two principal 7 Inspectors, I would use them along with my 8 medical

- or my mechanics to make my argument 9 that the FAA doesn't prove that Mr. Plas and 10 Mr. Price taxiing out without disconnecting 11 the GPU caused the damaged, said damage or 12 said repaired damage. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 14 Mr. Vines, this is your motion. 15 You have right of final reply. Do you have 16 anything else that you would like to add? 17 MR. VINES: No, Judge. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you 19 very much for the arguments made in this. 20 I'll simplynote that, again, part 21 of the FAA's Motion in Limine to be admitted 22 as fact, the admissions that are containedin

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com41 1 AdmissionsNo. 1, 2, 4, and 5 had alreadybeen 2 addressed by the Court. Those have been 3 admitted. 4 The FAA's motion to deem admitted 5 as fact the request forAdmissionNos. 12, 15, 6 16, and 17 appear not to be disputed and 7 hereby confirmed and admitted. 8 And it also appears that there is 9 a request to admit as fact the contentsof the 10 June 5, 2009 written statement made by Mr. 11 Eric Price, which is the FAA motion Exhibit 12 No. 2, and that is not disputed, and I will 13 deem that admitted. 14 The FAA's Motion ln Limine to 15 admit as fact the contents of the June 8th, 16 2009 written statement made by Mr. Brandon 17 Plas, which is Exhibit No. 1 ln the FAA's 18 motion, is also undisputed, and I will also 19 admit that information as undisputed fact. 20 I will not, however, take that 21 leap that the FAA would like me to take and 22 findthat this is sufficientandconclusionary

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com42 1 enoughto prohibit the Respondent frommaking 2 an argument that differs from the FAA's 3 assertionof what a reasonableinferencecould 4 be made in terms of the admission and review 5 of those facts. 6 So, in essence, I will not grant 7 the FAA's motion to prohibit the Respondent 8 from providing information that argues a 9 differentperceptionor conclusionfrom those 10 facts. 11 I certainly will grant the FAA's 12 motion that the Respondent should not be 13 presenting evidence that is contrary to the 14 above-agreedadmitted facts, but I don't get 15 a sense from the Respondent that it has any 16 intention of doing that. 17 I would caution you, Mr. 18 Honeycutt, that the FAA may or may not call 19 some of the people that you're hoping for. 20 And if theydon't call them, it's up to you to 21 either call them yourself or to have someone 22 else testifying as a witness that could

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com43 1 present evidencethat you think is important. 2 And we can talk about that a little bit more 3 in a minute. 4 Let's talk next about the Motion 5 to CompelDiscovery. This is the Respondent's 6 motion that was filed, and I have some 7 additional materials on that that I need to 8 identify. 9 Essentially, afterthe partieshad 10 filed their motions, the Office of Hearings 11 staff contacted you both, and this was on 12 January 30, 2014, by email, noting that the 13 FAA's response referredto some exhibits that 14 it hadnot actuallyattached. And those were 15 Exhibits 3 and 4. The FAA's Response to the 16 Motion to Compel referenced three exhibits, 17 Exhibits 1, 3, and 4, but only Exhibit 1 was 18 attached. 19 And there was a response by Mr. 20 Vines to all parties, includingthe Office of 21 Hearingsstaff, thismorningindicating-- oh, 22 I'm sorry, it was yesterday; excuse me, the

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1 January 30, 2014

-- indicating that, because 2 of the very cold weather that the Atlantic 3 Region is experiencing, the FAA office that 4 Mr. Vines utilizes in Atlanta, Georgia has 5 been closed. So, he has not been able to get 6 a copy of the exhibits to send to the Court. 7 Is that a correct statement, Mr. 8 Vines, about the communique that occurred 9 between you and my staff and Mr. Honeycutt? 10 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And, Mr. 12 Honeycutt, would you also agree that's a 13 correctsummationof the expartecontactthat 14 occurred? 15 MR. HONEYCUTT: I agree, Your 16 Honor. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I, then, 18 received on January 31, 2014, earlier this 19 morning, a copyof an email fromMr. Honeycutt 20 to my staff and Mr. Vines talking about a 21 Freedomof Informationrequestand, then, also 22 providing that by email.

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1 Mr. Vines, did you get a copy of 2 that? 3 MR. VINES: An email that was sent 4 today at 9:49, yes. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Just so 6 that you both know, we do not accept email 7 filings in this office. And I appreciatethat 8 this was very last-minute, but, again, we 9 don't have any system set up to accept or log 10 in email filings. We just don't. 11 So, ln the future, please do not 12 email material to one of my staff members, in 13 the assumption that that's going to become 14 part of the record. 15 And I will ask you, Mr. Honeycutt, 16 to formallyfax this documentor the documents 17 to my office, so that we have a fax record of 18 filing. Andyou needto also send this to the 19 Hearing Docket Clerk if you want this to be 20 considered as part of the record. 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I will

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com46 1 certainly consider it today as part of the 2 record, but I want you to know that we won't 3 be forwarding this to the Hearing Docket and 4 it hasn't been logged in as a formal filing at 5 this point. 6 So, let's chat about that for just 7 a minute. And I've got a couple of questions 8 for you about this. 9 It appears to me that most of this 10 materialthathas beendiscussedandexchanged 11 by the parties was exchangedyears ago, prior 12 to this case ever reaching the Office of 13 Hearings, and certainly prior to the point 14 where this Court got involvedand directedthe 15 parties to engage in discovery. 16 So, my first question to you, Mr. 17 Honeycutt, as themovingparty, is, why didn't 18 you ask for any of this material during the 19 discovery process that was -- 20 MR. HONEYCUTT: Well, Your Honor, 21 would you like me to go ahead? I'm sorry. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: yes, let me

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-- that was outlined and codified in 2 writing for you last year? What happened? 3 MR. HONEYCUTT: Your Honor, in our 4 Interrogatories and in our Rule 26, we 5 addressed that we're only using what the 6 Government, Mr. Vines, will provide. We're 7 goingto use that informationas our evidence. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, but if you 9 thought that you needed to get a full and 10 completecopyof theEnforcementInvestigative 11 Report, whichwe havebeenabbreviatingin our 12 litigation here as the EIR

-- 13 MR. HONEYCUTT: Uh-hum. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN:

-- why didn't you 15 ask for it during the discovery phase of the 16 litigation? You had an opportunity to 17 formally request production of it up until 18 approximatelyAugust 26th, 2013, when general 19 discovery ended. Was there some reason why 20 you didn't take advantageof that opportunity? 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, rna'am. Under 22 Rule 26, it'smy understandingthat (A) (1) (a),

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWIN.nealrgross.com48 1 ln general, except as exempt by the Rule 2 26(A) (1) (b), or other wise stipulated and 3 ordered by the Court, "a party must, without 4 awaiting a discovery request, provide to the 5 other parties," Roman numeral No. II, "a copy 6 or descriptionby categoryand locationof all 7 documents." 8 By Mr. Vines' Rule 26, he listed 9 the releasableportionsof the EnforcementAct 10 or file, but, yet, failedto provideme a copy 11 of it, as requiredby Rule 26(A). So, I was 12 assumingthat, underthat rule, that Mr. Vines 13 would provide me with that copy. And also, 14 continuing in that rule, No. (5), "claiming 15 privilege or protecting trial preparation 16 material. Informationwithheld. When a party 17 withholds information otherwise discoverable 18 by claimingthat informationis privilegedand 19 subject to protection as trial preparation 20 material, the party must," Roman numeral No. 21 I, "expresslymake the claimand, II, describe 22 the nature of the document/communicationwith

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com49 1 tangiblethingsnotproducedordisclosed, and 2 do so in a manner without revealing 3 information itself privileged or protected, 4 will enable the other parties to assess the s claim and reference a log of withheld 6 information.'' 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I'm 8 familiar with that, and I have a copy of the 9 rules right in front of me. 10 MR. HONEYCUTT: So, that was my, 11 Your Honor 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'mgoing to stop 13 you, sir. Sir, I'm going to stop you. 14 MR. HONEYCUTT: Okay. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I also have a 16 copy of the June 6th, 2013 Order setting 17 litigation dates and procedures in front of 18 me. And that talks about what you do if you 19 don't get the discoverythat you want and how 20 to go bout getting the Court's attention and 21 help if you don't get the discovery that you 22 want.

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com50 1 So, I think, for me, the question 2 is not what you had hoped to get without 3 asking for it. The question is, why didn't 4 you move to compel it when you didn't get it 5 when you thought you should? 6 MR. HONEYCUTT: To be honest with 7 you, my layman knowledge of the rules. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let 9 me ask you this then: in terms of what you 10 think is there, what do you think is there 11 that wouldbe helpful to you that you haven't 12 already gotten? 13 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is the 14 problem, Your Honor; I don't have a log of 15 what is not released to me for me to come to 16 that conclusion that you're asking for. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you -- 18 MR. HONEYCUTT: I mean/ I 19 understandthat I didn't follow the procedure 20 as laid out on June 6th over discovery. So, 21 therefore, bynot followingthat rule, andthe 22 argument that the Complainant makes in

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com51 1 response of not having to produce that 2 information, I ask the Court, then, is Mr. 3 Vines and the Administrator in violation by 4 not producing, under Rule 26, as he is 5 required to do? So, therefore, who violated 6 which first? 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I think the 8 real issue is that you are the one that is 9 requesting relief right now. So, you are th 1

### o one thathas to first showcompliancewiththe 11 rule. And you alsohave to showthatyou have 12 made a good-faitheffort to identify to your 13 friend across the aisle what it is that you 14 want, when you want it, and why you want it, 15 and that you have a right to it. 16 When you do that, and you still 17 don't get a full package as you would like, 18 then the rules and the Court Order requires 19 you to bring it to my attention in a certain 20 way within a certainperiod of time, so that 21 I can assist you. 22 And what has happened is none of

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com52 1 that happened. And we're way beyond the 2 discoveryperiod, and you're telling us that 3 youneededdiscovery. AndMr. Vines' response 4 to this request is that you're too late, 5 accordingto what I have readinhis material. 6 And my question to you at this 7 point is, I don't know what the documents are 8 that you have in your hand, but you must have 9 some idea of what it is that you think the 10 missingportionwouldgive to you. Andyou're 11 telling me that you don't know. 12 MR. HONEYCUTT: I don't know if I 13 have a complete file, Your Honor, is my 14 stance, that Mr. Vines didn't provide me a 15 copy. He provided the attorney who withdrew 16 from this case the releasable portions and, 17 yet, did not provide what was withheld and a 18 log of that, so I could make a determination 19 of what I felt I could go after. 20 And then, the question that I 21 would pose also to the Court is, is it 22 privileged information in litigation? And I

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com53 1 feel that I can't put a proper defense 2 together without the complete file, for the 3 fact that they draw conclusions from that 4 file, but, yet, decide what's releasable and 5 what's not. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. The first 7 point that you make is whether or not it's 8 privileged. In the way that these kinds of 9 cases go, I don't get to open that door 10 necessarilyuntil you prove that you have the 11 standing to discuss the matter. 12 So, for example, if you don't do 13 what you're supposed to do when you're 14 supposed to do it, you don't get to go into 15 all the other arguments; the door remains 16 closed. 17 MR. HONEYCUTT: I agree with you 18 on that, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. So, let me 20 ask you this: did you get a copy of the 21 redactedEIRfromyourattorneybeforehe left 22 his representation of your case?

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com54 1 MR. HONEYCUTT: In 2011, I did 2 receive some information from the attorney 3 that was the redacted EIR. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, you 5 already have that? 6 MR. HONEYCUTT: I'm, again, not 7 sure what the complete file is, but I do 8 have I mean, I don't know if that's 9 completelywhat Mr. Vines is goingto bringto 10 Court or if he is going to bring another 11 document that's not ln what I have. Because, 12 again, Mr. Vines did not release to me any 13 part of the file. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I understandthat 15 you'retellingme that Mr. Vines has not given 16 you anything recently. Is that accurate? 17 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is correct 18 that Mr. Vines has not sent me anything since 19 I've been representing Worldwide. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, but, as I 21 understand it from the record before me, you 22 haven't asked him to, either.

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vvww.nealrgross.com55 1 MR. HONEYCUTT: I did not make a 2 formal request, yes, to Mr. Vines, no. And 3 the document that you're referencing, my 4 Freedom of Information Act that I requested 5 from both the Tampa FSOD Manager, who is 6 leading this investigation, and also in 7 Washington, D.C., the Freedom of Information 8 Act to the FAA there, I requested that and I 9 spoke to Mr. Vines once I became

-- once my 10 attorney stepped down and was no longer 11 wanting to represent us, I had mentioned to 12 himthat I wanteda completefile. And again, 13 he said it was privileged information. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 15 MR. HONEYCUTT: I never made a 16 formal request in letter to him. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But this was just 18 a conversation you had on the phone? 19 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and you 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: But good faith, as 22 youmentionedearlier, was the fact that I did

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1 send in the FOI and I did have a conversation 2 with him about it. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And I '11 4 note that ln the emailed materials that I 5 received this morning through my attorney 6 staff, you do have a copy of the June 24, 2009 7 letter to an FAA employeerequesting, through 8 the FOIA Act, a full copy of the EIR. And I 9 take it that, between June 24, 2009 and 10 today's date, January 31, 2014, you have 11 gotten either no response or an inadequate 12 response from the person you addressed this 13 letter to? 14 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is correct, 15 ma'am, I have not had any response reference 16 both letters. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say 18 "bothletters," as I look at thematerial, you 19 also have a letter dated June 24, 2009 that 2

### o has no individualname, just a general letter 21 to the FAA, againrequestingan expeditedFOIA 22 release.

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1 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is correct, 2 ma'am. I sent it to the Aviation 3 AdministrationNationalFreedomof Information 4 Act staff, ARC-40, and addressed it to the 5 officer at that location. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Since June 24, 7 2009, haveyou followedup on these lettersat 8 all? 9 MR. HONEYCUTT: Not otherthan the 10 conversation that I had with Mr. Vines. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In terms 12 of the material that you do have in front of 13 you that purports to be the redacted copy of 14 the EIR, what portion are redacted? Can you 15 tell me anything about the portions that are 16 redacted? 17 For example, did you have a 25- 18 page EIR with one page redacted, 15 pages 19 redacted, 24 of the 25 pages redacted? Can 20 you give me a sense of you're looking at and 21 why you're unhappy with it? 22 MR. HONEYCUTT: The file that I

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWN.nealrgross.com58 1 have is for officialuse only. It starts with 2 No. 1, Statement of the Case. Part of that 3 paragraphon that first page is redacted; the 4 second page, page 3 of that, over two-thirds 5 of the page is redacted. The next page is 6 completely redacted. 7 So, therefore, for me to draw 8 conclusions, again, Your Honor, I can't draw 9

-- I don't read riddles, with no disrespect 10 meant, Your Honor. 11 But, again, it is my understanding 12 that the Administrator took this file and 13 compiledand came to a conclusionthat I have 14 violated regulations. And I have asked for 15 the complete file, so I can come to the 16 conclusion and have the same information to 17 defend the allegation. 18 So, the question, is it 19 privileged? And again, I go back to we're 20 referencing I didn't follow procedure laid 21 down in June for discovery, but I would also 22 ask, did Mr. Vines follow procedure of Rule

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com59 1 26? 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is there anything 3 else that you would like to add to yourmotion 4 at this point? 5 MR. HONEYCUTT: I feel that it's 6 tainted information, that Mr. Vines didn't 7 follow Rule 26, didn't provide me the 8 information that's due me, regardless if I 9 requestedit, as it states in the beginningof 10 the rule and, therefore, has denied me the 11 ability to build a case. 12 And anybody that he is going to 13 call referencingthat file, I ask the Court to 14 strike the InvestigativeReport file, for the 15 fact that Mr. Vines did not produce it as 16 required. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay. 18 Thank you very much. 19 Mr. Vines, do you have any 20 response? 21 MR. VINES: Judge, none other than 22 what's in my motion.

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

WASHINGTON, D.C. MOTION CONFERENCE IN THE MATTER OF: 

### FEB 182014 

## HEARINGDOC ET FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, Complainant, v. FDMS No. FAA-2013- 0045 WORLDWIDE AIRCRAFT SERVICES, INC., Respondent. Friday, January 31, 2014 Via Teleconference The motion conference came on for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge

(202)234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comAPPEARANCES: On Behalf of the Complainant: WILLIAM P. VINES, ESQ. Office of the Regional Counsel Southern Region Federal Aviation Administration P.O. Box 20636 Atlanta, GA 30320 (404) 305-5200 ( 404 ) 305-52 2 3 (Fax) On Behalf of the Respondent: MICHAEL A. HONEYCUTT President of: Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc. Co/ JET I.C.U. 2561 Rescue Way Brooksville, FL 34604 (352) 796-2540 (352) 792-2549 (Fax)

NEALR. GROSS 2

(202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com3 1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 10:33 a.m. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the 4 record in the Matter of worldwide Services, 5 Inc. This is Docket No. FAA-2013-0075. 6 Today is Friday, January31, 2014, 7 and the parties have convened for a motion 8 conference prior to the March 2014 hearing. 9 The FAA is represented by its 10 attorneyof record, Mr. WilliamP. Vines. He 11 is appearing by telephone. 12 The Respondent is represented by 13 its President, Mr. Michael A. Honeycutt. He 14 is also appearing by telephone. 15 Sitting as an observer with Mr. 16 Honeycuttandparticipatingas an observerin 17 these proceedings is his assistant, Sarah 18 Guenther. 19 Also present at the Office of 20 Hearings, seated as observers only, are Mr. 21 Cody L. Smith, an attorney advisor at this 22 office, andMr. AndyOrr, a law student intern

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com4 1 with this office. 2 Good morning, everyone. 3 I'll note that, essentially, the 4 last time we convened was on January 8th, 5 2014. The parties appeared by telephone for 6 a scheduledprehearingconference. Andduring 7 that time, the parties discusseda varietyof 8 different issues. And as a result, this 9 conference was scheduled and some new 10 deadlinesweregivento thepartiesto address 11 ongoing litigation concerns. 12 A January 9, 2014 Order set a 13 Motion Conference and additional litigation 14 deadlines was then filed. As a result, on 15 January lOth, 2014, the FAA filed its Motion 16 in Limine. On January 16, 2014, the 17 Respondent filed the Respondent's Motion to 18 Compel. On January 22nd, 2014, the FAA filed 19 its Response to the Respondent's Motion to 20 Compel. On January28th, 2014, the Respondent 21 filed its Response to the FAA's Motion in 22 Limine.

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1 I'll note that, after those 2 responses were filed, there was some email 3 correspondencewith the partiesby the Office 4 of Hearings staff. And I'll simplynote that 5 that email correspondenceappearstohavebeen 6 limited to the Motion to Compel and the 7 Response to the Motion to Compel, and I'll 8 identifythosea littlemore specificallywhen 9 we turn to that particular motion for 10 argument. 11 Let's start, then, with the Motion 12 in Limine that was filed by the FAA. Before 13 I ask questions or take argument, I want to 14 ask a few preliminary questions of both 15 parties, starting with the FAA. 16 Mr. Vines, you have indicatedthat 17 youhadreceivedfromthe Respondenta variety 18 of different answers to FAA Request for 19 Discovery, which included requests for 20 admissions and other discovery. You did not 21 provide a copy of the actual discovery 22 responses. So, I do not know who signed the

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWIN.nealrgross.com6 1 Respondent's Discovery Request, the date it 2 was signed, or the date that you received it. 3 Can you supplement the record orally for me 4 now? 5 MR. VINES: With regard to the 6 responses I received

-- 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm sorry, 8 sir, I can't hear you. You sound as if you 9 are away from the phone. Can you speak up, 10 please? 11 MR. VINES: Yes. So, again, you 12 would like the date in which the Respondent 13 replied to the Agency's Discovery Request? 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I need to know 15 who respondedonbehalfof the Respondent, the 16 identityof the personwho actually submitted 17 the response. I need to know the date that 18 the responseswere signed, and I need to know 19 when you received the responses. 20 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. I 21 received, if I recall correctly, two sets of 22 responses. The Respondent replied, but was

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1 not complete in their responses. In other 2 words, the Respondent did not answer all the 3 questions, andtheRequestsforAdmissionsand 4 Request for Productions that I sent. 5 So, I do have in front of me 6 Respondent'sResponsetoComplainant'sRequest 7 for Admissions, signed by Mr. Honeycutt, and 8 it was emailedto me on September 6th of 2013. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right. Is 10 that the response package that you received 11 that you're quoting from in your Motion in 12 Limine? 13 MR. VINES: Just one minute, 14 Judge. 15 (Pause.) 16 Yes, Judge, in my Motion in 17 Limine, paragraph (2) , there were two sets of 18 responses, and the first set was receivedor, 19 rather, submitted by the Respondent on 20 September 6th of 2013. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, let me 22 make sure I've gottenall the informationfrom

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com8 1 you. You have filed a Motion ln Limine 2 asserting that on June 27, 2013, you 3 propounded your first set of discovery 4 requests, and then, on September6th, 2013 and 5 again on December 4, 2013, the Respondent 6 provided responses. 7 So, all of the responses that you 8 are identifying in your January 10, 2014 are 9 from the responses you received from Mr. 10 Honeycutt on December 6th, 2013? 11 MR. VINES: On September 6th, 2013 12 and December 4th of 2013. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me try 14 and do this again. Can you tell me which of 15 the responses you got when, and were they all 16 signed by Mr. Honeycutt? And if so, what 17 dates were they signed before you received 18 them? 19 MR. VINES: Again, I received 20 responses that were signed, again, September 21 6, 2013. All the responsesthat were received 22 that were dated

-- that I received that were

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com9 1 dated on that date were, in fact, signed by 2 Mr. Honeycutt. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, the 4 date of signature for having replied is also 5 the date of receipt? 6 MR. VINES: Again, he emailed 7 those to me and, also, sent those by mail. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, Mr. 9 Vines, I'm sorry that I'm not making myself 10 more clear. I just need to know when they 11 were signed by the Respondent and when you 12 receivedthem. And oftentimes, those are two 13 different dates. 14 But, from what I'm hearing from 15 you, you're tellingme that Mr. Honeycuttwas 16 the sole person who responded to all FAA 17 RequestsforDiscoveryandthathe signedthem 18 on September 6th, 2013 and December 4, 2013 19 and served them on you the same day? 20 MR. VINES: No, Judge. Again, 21 what I'm trying to say is I have two sets of 22 discoveryrequests, two setsof responsesthat

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1 were submitted by Worldwide Aircraft. The 2 first set I received by email on September 3 6th, 2013. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I 'm going to 5 stop you. I'll stop you right now. 6 So, when you received those email 7 responses on September 6th, 2013, were the 8 responses signed and dated as September 6th, 9 2013 by Mr. Honeycutt? 10 MR. VINES: That's correct. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And then, 12 whenyoureceivedadditionaldiscoveryanswers 13 from the Respondenton December4, 2013, were 14 those responses also signed and dated that 15 same day, December 4, 2013? 16 MR. VINES: Judge, let me look at 17 those. 18 (Pause.) 19 Judge, to answer your question, 20 the responses were sent by email to me on 21 December4th, the secondset of responsesfrom 22 WorldwideAircraftwere sent tome onDecember

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com11 1 4th, 2013, from an individual by the name of 2 Lisa Aleski. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And can you spell 4 the first and last name for me, please? 5 MR. VINES: Yes. L-I-S-A is the 6 spellingof the first name. The last name is 7 spelled A-L-E-S-K-I. 8 And those were sent to me, and 9 those responses, all the responseswere dated 10 December4th and signedby Michael Honeycutt. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay. So, 12 Mr. Honeycutt again was the respondingparty 13 for the responsesyou receivedthat were dated 14 December 14, 2013? 15 (Pause.) 16 Mr. Vines? 17 MR. VINES: Yes. Yes, ma'am. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Could you 19 answer that question, please? 20 MR. VINES: I'm sorry, I thought 21 that was directedto Mr. Honeycutt. Will you 22 please repeat the question?

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I will tell 2 Mr. Honeycutt and you when I changemy focus. 3 I'm trying to make sure that I know who the 4 responding party was for the Respondent's 5 responsesthatwere sent toyouon December4, 6 2013. And from I can hear from you, you're 7 tellingus thatMr. Honeycutt signedanddated 8 those on behalf of the Respondent? 9 MR. VINES: That's correct, Judge. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you 11 so much. 12 Yes, in the future, just so that 13 you know, you want to be sure and send me 14 copies of the relevant discovery that you're 15 using, so that I have a complete record of 16 when they were returned to you, in part, 17 because I have to look at whether or not 18 you'rewithinthetimeframeforcomplyingwith 19 discovery and with motions for problems that 20 arise because of any alleged deficiencies in 21 discovery. 22 I also have to know who the

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com13 1 respondingpartywas in terms of the discovery 2 to determine whether or not they had the 3 authoritytomake those responses andbindthe 4 company or business or individual to those 5 answers. 6 I mean, there's things that I have 7 to check that you may not be arguing. So, I 8 appreciate you looking at that. 9 And now, I'm going to go to Mr. 10 Honeycutt. 11 Mr. Honeycutt, I want to chat with 12 you very briefly about some of the answers 13 that are contained in the FAA's Motion in 14 Limine. And I'mgoing to turn specificallyto 15 page 2 of the Motion. 16 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have that 18 with you? 19 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. At the top 21 of page 2, there are paragraphs identifiedas 22 paragraph (a) as in apple, (b) as in ball, and

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1 (c) as in cat. Do you see those? 2 MR. HONEYCUTT: I do, Your Honor. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. It's my 4 understanding from talking just now to Mr. 5 Vines that you were the person responding to 6 all of the discovery requests that the FAA 7 sent to your business. Is that correct? 8 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, Your Honor, 9 that is correct. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And 11 accordingto the FAA, on page 2 of its Motion 12 in Limine, at the top of the page under the 13 paragraphentitled (a) as inapple, theyasked 14 you, quote, "Do you disputeBrandonPlas' June 15 8, 2009 statement to Robert Donahue?" End 16 quote. And that's only a partial quote. 17 MR. HONEYCUTI: Yes, ma'am. Go 18 ahead. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: There was also a 20 statement following that saying, quote, ''If 21 so, please provide the specific facts which 22 you dispute and why (This statement was

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODEISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com15 1 providedto you on or about June 22nd, 2011, 2 as part of the release of portions of the 3 Enforcement Investigative Report)." End 4 quote. 5 Do you see all of that? 6 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am, I do, 7 Your Honor. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. According 9 to Mr. Vines, the response he received from 10 you was, quote, "None." End quote. 11 MR. HONEYCUTT: Again, Your Honor, 12 Mr. Vines, I sent him Answers to 13 Interrogatories, Answers to Produce, and 14 Answers for what's the other one? 15 Interrogatories and Request to Produce. 16 Anyway, I sentMr. Vines those answers, andhe 17 sent back, wanted more detailed information. 18 So, our responses are, when I sent 19 back on December that we were talking about 20 earlier on that timeline, in my Amended 21 Answers to the Interrogatories. So, again, 22 you askedMr. Vines, and I'ma littleconfused

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1 which sets of Answers that I sent him is 2 referencedin limine. Is it the first set of 3 discovery that I gave him in September, I 4 believe it was, we said, or the second set of 5 Answers, the Amended Answers to 6 Interrogatories and discovery produced? 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, let's 8 talk about that just a little bit. So, what 9 did you mean, essentially, when the response 10 was "none"? Was it

-- can you just tell me 11 again what that meant for you? 12 MR. HONEYCUTT: Your Honor, I 13 think I'm trying to find my file here. I've 14 got it, but I'm looking to find what we 15 actually admit to -- so, I'm not sure about 16 ''none 11 • "Admit Allegation 1. Admits 17 Allegation 2. Denies" this is ln 18 response 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I'm going 20 to ask you to think quietly to yourself, if 21 you're looking through some papers. 22 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. And what I 2 would like you to do is look at the Motion in 3 Limine, page 2, top of the page. 4 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And it's my 6 understanding from what you've said so far 7 that this was part of a larger discovery 8 response. Can you -- 9 MR. HONEYCUTT: Well, there's two 10 sets of Answers, Your Honor. I've said the 11 first set was answered, and this answer of the 12 response of ''none'' may have been in the first 13 one, of my Responseto the Interrogatories,or 14 it could have been ln the second set of 15 Interrogatories. And that'swhat I was asking 16 Mr. Vines to clarify, which the response 17 11none11 , was it from the first set or the 18 second set? 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, it's 20 not for you to have a dialog with Mr. Vines 21 right now. 22 MR. HONEYCUTT: Okay.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If I want to hear 2 from him, I'll let him know. 3 I'm just asking you to tell me 4 what you recall, if you recall anything. And 5 it sounds to me like you're saying that you 6 were asked about this more than once. 7 MR. HONEYCUTT: I was, Your Honor. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's go to 9 paragraph (b) as inboy on page 2 of the FAA's 10 Motion in Limine. And I won't read this 11 particularparagraph since you have it before 12 you. Can you explainif your response, quote, 13 "none," endquote, is similarto yourresponse 14 to the one in paragraph (a) , or was there a 15 different rationale that you were giving for 16 this answer? 17 MR. HONEYCUTT: Where I'm at 18 currently on those two, (a) and (b), is I do 19 not dispute the statement of Eric Price and 20 Brandon Plas. I do not dispute their written 21 statementsto InspectorDonahue. I agree that 22 those are their statements.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well

-- 2 MR. HONEYCUTT: And I don't 3 dispute their statements. I don't dispute 4 their statements, Your Honor. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But when you say 6 youdon't disputetheirstatements, I guessmy 7 question to you is, does this mean that you 8 don't dispute that theygave those particular 9 statements or are you saying that you don't 10 dispute the truth of what those statements 11 contain? 12 MR. HONEYCUTT: I don't dispute 13 themgivingthe statementsandI don'tdispute 14 that what they said is the truth. My dispute 15 is the assumption and allegation that is 16 concludedfromtheirstatementsthatMr. Vines 17 has written in the Complaint. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And that being 19 what, in your opinion? 20 MR. HONEYCUTT: I wouldhave to go 21 back and re-read the Complaint, to the point 22 that, again, what I'm saying is I don't

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1 dispute Brandon Plas and Eric Price's 2 statement. I believe they made a truthful 3 statement. I don't agree with Mr. Vines' 4 conclusionthat we validatedthe FAR based on 5 partly those two statements. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 7 MR. HONEYCUTT: So, there's more 8 to the allegations and to the Complaint. To 9 draw the conclusion from just those two 10 statements, I don't agree with that. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That's 12 very helpful. 13 Now let's go to paragraph (c) as 14 ln cat, which, again, is on page 2 of the 15 FAA's Motion in Limine. There was a Request 16 for Production of three years of financial 17 statements or tax records. And your response 18 was, quote, "Not applicable." End quote. 19 Why, in your opinion, is this not 20 applicable? 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: I'm not trying to 22 claim that I would be unable to pay the fine

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1 of the $12,375 penalty. Therefore, I would 2 not have to produce tax returns, show that I 3 was unable topay that. I couldpay the fine. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I just 5 want to make sure that you understand that 6 part of your affirmative defenses on the 7 proposedcivilpenaltyincludetheopportunity 8 to raise financial limitation. And so, if you 9 don't want to raise those affirmative 10 defenses, you don't have to for mitigating 11 circumstances, but, then, I wouldn't be able 12 to take into considerationarguments that you 13 make in your case-in-chief or at the end of 14 the case that you couldn't afford to pay. I 15 couldn't find those to be very persuasive if 16 youdon'tprovidefinancialdocumentation. It 17 sounds to me like you know that, but I just 18 wanted to make sure. 19 MR. HONEYCUTT: I understand that 20 -- I understand. I could make the payment, 21 Your Honor, yes. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You don 1t want to

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON,D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com22 1 raise a financial inability or problems as 2 part of your defense in this case? That's 3 what I'm hearing from you. 4 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, I 'm not going 5 to make that part of the defense, an aspect. 6 I would like to request that if I am found in 7 violationand the penaltyis upheld, and that 8 amount is the amount that we're going to go 9 after, that I would possiblyhave the option 10 to negotiatea paymentplan. But do I need to 11 producethose documents now? I wouldhave to 12 make that decision now, if I want to -- 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, a payment 14 plan is different from having the ability to 15 pay. 16 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And typically, I 18 do not get involved in structuring payment 19 plans as part of my decisionmakingprocess. 20 Usually, I leave that to the parties. 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am, and 22 that's the question I guess I'm asking, is if

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1 we can -- I couldpay the fine if I had to at 2 the end of the day. I would like, if not 3 foundguilty, not to-- well, I mean, if found 4 guilty, though, to have an optiontoworkwith 5 them on paying it. But I have to, if it 6 requires producing three years of statements 7 andeverythingright now, to delay, I wouldgo 8 with I would be able to pay the fine. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I 10 understand. 11 Mr. Vines, let me chat with you 12 about installmentpayments. Typically, I do 13 not get involved in ordering payment plans, 14 for various reasons. Do you still do that if 15 you go to a hearing and a civil penalty is 16 awarded? Do you still engage in paymentplan 17 discussions with the opposing party? 18 MR. VINES: Judge, I don't have 19 the answer for that. Normally, in settlement 20 discussions we do if asked by the parties to 21 enter an installmentor a payment plan, we do 22 discuss that. But I'm not familiar with our

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com24 1 process where we go to a hearing and a judge 2 finds in favor of the Agency and orders a 3 particular civil penalty. I'm not sure what 4 the Agency does at that point. I'll be happy 5 to look into that and provide an answer to 6 both you and Mr. Honeycutt. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I can tell 8 you that, according to the regulations, you 9 still have the authority to engage in 10 structuring a payment plan, even after 11 hearing, as I read the regulation. 12 MR. VINES: Okay, Judge. And for 13 your information, this is the first time I've 14 gotten this far in a DOT civil penalty 15 proceeding. So, I am, too, on a learning 16 curve in this particularjurisdiction. So, I 17 will definitely research that and provide an 18 answer to you and the attorney. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That would 20 be helpful because, if your Agency takes the 21 positionthat you would ratherhave me do it, 22 I'mhappyto do it. But, typically, as I read

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com25 1 the regulation and some of the case law, 2 because this issue has come up before me 3 before, theAgencypreferstokeep that option 4 for itself, even after a decisionby a judge 5 is issued. 6 So, if you don't prefer that and 7 you would like me to take that on as part of 8 the case decision, I'mhappy to do it. But I 9 would prefer to tip to my hat to you, if you 10 would like to retain that ability. And the 11 regulations don't prevent you from doing it. 12 MR. VINES: Thank you, Judge. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're welcome. 14 Okay. Then, my originalquestions 15 are addressed. 16 Mr. Vines, we can do the Motion in 17 Limineportionfor you in two differentways. 18 I can just give you about five minutes to do 19 an overview, if you would like, and then, 20 reserve my questions to the end of that or I 21 can ask you my questions first, and then, let 22 you sum up after. Which is your preference?

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com26 1 MR. VINES: I guess we can do the 2 latter, Judge. I think the motion is just 3 straightforwardas to the basically, if I 4 recall correctly, Judge, you asked that I 5 submit this to the Court in light of the 6 nature of the litigation, that being a pro se 7 Respondent. 8 And again, these are just facts 9 that I've asked to be, I guess, in lack of a 10 betterterm, just stipulatingto, andthatwas 11 the purpose of filing this motion, Judge. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, 13 let's talk about a couple of them. 14 You had requestedthat the request 15 for admissionNos. 1, 2, 4, and-- let me see 16

-- 4 and 5 be deemed admitted as true. And I 17 would simplynote that thosehave alreadybeen 18 addressedby the January 9, 2014 Court Order. 19 So, those requestsfor admissionshave already 20 been deemed admittedby a party agreement and 21 confirmedby the Court. So, that portion of 22 the motion to me is moot.

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1 MR. VINES: Okay. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The next section, 3 you're talking about requests for admission 4 Nos. 12, 15, 16, and 17. And those are 5 contained on pages 2, 3, and 4 of the Motion 6 in Limine. 7 As I read the Respondent's 8 responsive materials, again, those are non9 disputedand it'snon-disputed,and I '11 check 10 with Mr. Honeycutt before I make a final 11 ruling. Then, those, again, would be 12 confirmed by the Court. 13 I think the concern, based on the 14 material that I have received, is your 15 assertion that, even with those admissions, 16 that the paragraph No. 10 in the FAA's 17 Complaint is, therefore, proved. And I want 18 you to take a look at paragraph 10 of the 19 Complaint with me, if you would be so kind. 20 And I want to ask you if you can 21 explain to me how paragraph 10 would be 22 conclusivelyprovenwiththosefewadmissions.

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1 And the reason I ask that is because those 2 admissions basically say that there was a 3 failure to disconnect the ground power unit, 4 which we can all refer to as the "GPU" today, 5 before the flight crew took off for a flight 6 on May 3rd, 2009. 7 The admissions also say that, on 8 May 20th, 2009, whichwas 17 days later, there 9 was maintenanceperformedon the same aircraft 10 where the GPU receptaclewas replaced. But I 11 don't see ln these four new admissions the 12 assertion that there's a proof of actual 13 damage on May 3rd, 2009, and that that was the 14 damage that was deferred for maintenance for 15 17 days. And I'm wondering if I'm missing 16 something. 17 MR. VINES: The damage referredto 18 on May 3rd --to make sure, you're saying 19 there was damage reported on May 20th, but 20 you're not making the connectionto the issue 21 of May 3rd, the deferral? 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. I'm

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com29 1 thinkingthat yourMotioninLimine

-- and I 'm 2 looking at page 3, which has paragraphs 3 identifiedas (e) as in egg, (f) as in Frank, 4 referring to, respectively, the request for 5 admissions 12 and 15. So, I have an admission 6 saying there was 

### a takeoff without 7 disconnecting the GPU on May 3rd, 2009, and 8 then, 17 days later, on May 20, 2009, a GPU 9 receptacle was replaced. 10 And then, I look at paragraph 10 11 of yourComplaint, becausepart of yourMotion 12 in Limine says that these admissions prove 13 paragraph 10. There was a detection of 14 damage, and then, the Respondent deferred 15 repair of the damage to a later date. 16 And I'm not quite sure that I 17 agree withyou that thematerial that you have 18 submittedconclusivelyproves paragraph 10 ln 19 your Complaint, because you're asking me to 20 prohibit the Respondent from challenging 21 evidence about paragraph 10. And before I do 22 that, I have to understandyour thinking and

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com30 1 agreement with it. 2 MR. VINES: Judge, again, I'm 3 looking throughmy Motion in Limine, and I'm 4 not seeing the reference to the paragraph in 5 the Complaint. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You have, 7 on page 4 of your Motion in Limine, under 8 paragraph V, which is Roman numeral V, a 9 statement saying that the Respondent's 10 admission to the request for admissions 12, 11 15, 16, and 17 are relevant and support the 12 allegations contained in paragraphs 3 and 10 13 of the Complaint. 14 And then, you ask for reliefunder 15 paragraph 6 on page 4 of your Motion in 16 Limine. And part of that relief is to 17 prohibit the Respondent from presenting 18 evidence on those matters. 19 And so, I'm a little concerned 20 because I am not sure that you've made the 21 case. And if you have and I've missed it, I 22 want to giveyou anopportunitynow to explain

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WINW.nealrgross.com31 1 that to me. 2 Do you see your request on page 4 3 of the Motion in Limine? 4 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Am I missing 6 something in terms of the analysis of those 7 factual pieces of information to the 8 allegationof paragraph 10 in your Complaint? 9 MR. VINES: Judge, the reference 10 to paragraph 12 is tied in with a statement 11 made by, I believe, the mechanic who wrote a 12 statement regarding damage to the aircraft 13 related to the GPU. And I guess what I'm 14 tryingto say, and I didn't articulateit very 15 clearly, is that paragraph

-- Administrator's 16 request for admission No. 12 and response 17 thereto is tied in with a statement made by 18 the mechanic and I believe the pilot of this 19 aircraftregardingthe damage. And those are 20 intertwined. 21 Specifically, that on page 3, the 22 paragraph (4) (b), where I talk about the

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com32 1 flight crew operating the aircraft in which 2 they taxied and took off without first 3 disconnectingthe groundpower unit, when you 4 combine that with the statement -- 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm going to 6 stop you. You're still talking about the 7 Complaint? Or are you referring back to the 8 Motion in Limine? 9 MR. VINES: I'm sorry, the Motion 10 ln Limine on page 3. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 12 MR. VINES: We're looking at 13 paragraph (4) (e) regarding request for 14 admission No. 12, is what I'm focusing on. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 16 MR. VINES: So, that, combined 17 witha statementmadeby, I believe, the pilot 18 and mechanic, which Mr. Honeycutt and we have 19 discussedearlier, andhe does not disputethe 20 veracityor the truth of the matter contained 21 inthose statements, thosestatementscombined 22 with paragraph, request for admissionNo. 12,

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com33 1 goes to showthat therewas damage andthat it 2 was deferred. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, let 1s go to 4 those statements then. So, I have before me 5 GovernmentExhibitNo. 1, whichwas apparently 6 submittedby a Brandon Plas, P as in Paul, L 7 as in llama, A as in apple, S as in Sam. And 8 it'stwo pages long. He was identifiedas the 9 pilot in command or the PIC. 10 So, show me in this statement 11 where he is asserting that there was damage 12 that he saw before he took off from his first 13 station. I think it was Brooksville. 14 (Pause.) 15 MR. VINES: If you look at the 16 first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth 17 paragraph, he states, "The PIC turned off the 18 GPU and ran inside to turn off the power and 19 burner, but forgot to disconnect the GPU from 20 the aircraft." 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I saw that. And 22 howdoes that translateintodamageto the GPU

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com34 1 unit on the aircraft? 2 MR. VINES: That is what the 3 Agency is arguing caused the damage to the 4 GPU. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, but I don't 6 have an affirmative statement, at least that 7 I can see in this particular report by Mr. 8 Plas that he identifiesthis as damage to the 9 GPU on the aircraft, eitherbeforehe took off 10 or afterhe landed. And that'smy concern, is 11 that I cannot make assumptions as to what 12 damage means or what it meant to him, or 13 whetheror not he perceivedthat as damage and 14 just didn't mean to-- just forgot to say it. 15 MR. VINES: Okay. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, is it your 17 argument that I should simply presume that, 18 because he forgot to disconnect the GPU from 19 the aircraft, that it was damaged at that 20 point? 21 MR. VINES: That's the argument 22 we'll be making, Judge, yes.

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE.N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com35 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Is there 2 anything on the letter that was submitted as 3 GovernmentExhibitNo. 2, authoredby an Eric 4 Price, spelled P as in Paul, R as in Robert, 5 I as in igloo, C as in cat, E as in egg, that 6 would add to your argument regarding your 7 request for a limitationof the Respondent's s case at trial? 9 MR. VINES: I believe

-- let me 10 reference the document, Judge. 11 (Pause.) 12 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge, it would 13 be the third paragraph. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what in the 15 thirdparagraph, inyouropinion, is relevant? 16 MR. VINES: It states that Mr. 17 Plas was approachedby line crewpersonnel in 18 MarshHarbor about the problemconnectingthe 19 GPU. He was unable to connect the GPU

-- 20 discussed with me that we might have taxied 21 the airplane with the GPU connected because 22 the GPU receptacle pin was bent.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And is it 2 your assertion that, because there was a 3 report that the GPU receptaclepin was bent, 4 that that equates to damage? 5 THE COURT REPORTER: Mr. Vines, 6 can you please try to make an effort to speak 7 up or come off speaker off? I'm not sure 8 what's going on. 9 MR. VINES: Yes. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'11 note that 11 the court reporter just interrupted and 12 addressed a comment to Mr. Vines. 13 Mr. Court Reporter, in the future 14 please address it to me and I'll take care of 15 it. 16 THE COURT REPORTER: Sure. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 18 Mr. Vines, you are fading in and 19 out. So, if you're on a speakerphone, I need 20 to have you either be right next to your 21 speaker phone or, if it doesn't help, we'll 22 tell you and we'11 have you pick up the

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com37 1 speaker handset. 2 MR. VINES: Thank you, Judge. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're welcome. 4 Okay. Okay. Thank you. 5 Anything else that you would like 6 the Court to consider in your Motion in 7 Limine? 8 MR. VINES: No, Judge. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 10 Honeycutt, let me turn to you. You've heard 11 the argument by Mr. Vines. What is your 12 response to that? 13 MR. HONEYCUTT: Exactly, Your 14 Honor, that I don't see a conclusion drawn 15 between Mr. Plas' statement nor Mr. Price's 16 statement, referencethempossiblytaxiingout 17 with the GPU plug still connected from its 18 original departure point and drawing a 19 conclusion that the aircraft was damaged. 20 And, in particular, where he 21 referencesinthe ComplaintNo. 10, "Afterthe 22 taxiing damage listed in paragraph 8,

NEALR. GROSS (202)234A433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com38 1 Worldwidedeferreddamage or repairat a later 2 date." 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What if I were to 4 assert to you that well, let me change 5 that. Let me ask you this: are you planning 6 to call Mr. Plas and/or Mr. Price as part of 7 your case-in-chief? 8 MR. HONEYCUTT: If Mr. Vines has 9 them-- I don't need to have Mr. Plas or Mr. 10 Price there, YourHonor. Like I said, I agree 11 with their statements. I find their 12 statementstruthful. I don'tbelievethat the 13 Administratorhas proven that, based on those 14 two statements and based on the aircraft 15 having maintenance done on the 20th, that 16 damage was deferred. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let 18 me redirect. Let's assume, just for the sake 19 of argument, that I accept your assertionand 20 Mr. Vines' assertionthat the statementsmade 21 by Mr. Plas andMr. Price that are attachedto 22 the FAA's Motion in Limine as Exhibits 1 and

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com39 1 2 should be deemed admitted as true. And if 2 I do that, Mr. Vines may not need to call 3 either witness. He could simply say, "These 4 are the facts that have been deemed admitted 5 as true, and you may take all reasonable 6 inferences from them, absent a challenge by 7 the Respondent." 8 In that case, Mr. Vines may not 9 need to call Mr. Plas or Mr. Price, at which 10 point would you be calling them? 11 MR. HONEYCUTT: No, ma'am. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Then, if you 13 aren't calling them, would you be calling 14 someone else to testify about what damage 15 means and why a reasonable inference should 16 not be made that a bent GPU receptor equals 17 damage? 18 MR. HONEYCUTT: I would probably, 19 yes, rna ram/ use the Inspectors that 20 investigated the allegation, Donahue, 21 Schaefer, as well as Paul Kahler, my Director 22 of Maintenance, and Brian Fanning, my Lead

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com40 1 Mechanic. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 3 MR. HONEYCUTT: I would use those 4 individuals, the FAA Maintenance Inspector, 5 PrimaryOps Inspector, andAvionics Inspector 6 or I'm sorry the two principal 7 Inspectors, I would use them along with my 8 medical

- or my mechanics to make my argument 9 that the FAA doesn't prove that Mr. Plas and 10 Mr. Price taxiing out without disconnecting 11 the GPU caused the damaged, said damage or 12 said repaired damage. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 14 Mr. Vines, this is your motion. 15 You have right of final reply. Do you have 16 anything else that you would like to add? 17 MR. VINES: No, Judge. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you 19 very much for the arguments made in this. 20 I'll simplynote that, again, part 21 of the FAA's Motion in Limine to be admitted 22 as fact, the admissions that are containedin

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com41 1 AdmissionsNo. 1, 2, 4, and 5 had alreadybeen 2 addressed by the Court. Those have been 3 admitted. 4 The FAA's motion to deem admitted 5 as fact the request forAdmissionNos. 12, 15, 6 16, and 17 appear not to be disputed and 7 hereby confirmed and admitted. 8 And it also appears that there is 9 a request to admit as fact the contentsof the 10 June 5, 2009 written statement made by Mr. 11 Eric Price, which is the FAA motion Exhibit 12 No. 2, and that is not disputed, and I will 13 deem that admitted. 14 The FAA's Motion ln Limine to 15 admit as fact the contents of the June 8th, 16 2009 written statement made by Mr. Brandon 17 Plas, which is Exhibit No. 1 ln the FAA's 18 motion, is also undisputed, and I will also 19 admit that information as undisputed fact. 20 I will not, however, take that 21 leap that the FAA would like me to take and 22 findthat this is sufficientandconclusionary

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com42 1 enoughto prohibit the Respondent frommaking 2 an argument that differs from the FAA's 3 assertionof what a reasonableinferencecould 4 be made in terms of the admission and review 5 of those facts. 6 So, in essence, I will not grant 7 the FAA's motion to prohibit the Respondent 8 from providing information that argues a 9 differentperceptionor conclusionfrom those 10 facts. 11 I certainly will grant the FAA's 12 motion that the Respondent should not be 13 presenting evidence that is contrary to the 14 above-agreedadmitted facts, but I don't get 15 a sense from the Respondent that it has any 16 intention of doing that. 17 I would caution you, Mr. 18 Honeycutt, that the FAA may or may not call 19 some of the people that you're hoping for. 20 And if theydon't call them, it's up to you to 21 either call them yourself or to have someone 22 else testifying as a witness that could

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com43 1 present evidencethat you think is important. 2 And we can talk about that a little bit more 3 in a minute. 4 Let's talk next about the Motion 5 to CompelDiscovery. This is the Respondent's 6 motion that was filed, and I have some 7 additional materials on that that I need to 8 identify. 9 Essentially, afterthe partieshad 10 filed their motions, the Office of Hearings 11 staff contacted you both, and this was on 12 January 30, 2014, by email, noting that the 13 FAA's response referredto some exhibits that 14 it hadnot actuallyattached. And those were 15 Exhibits 3 and 4. The FAA's Response to the 16 Motion to Compel referenced three exhibits, 17 Exhibits 1, 3, and 4, but only Exhibit 1 was 18 attached. 19 And there was a response by Mr. 20 Vines to all parties, includingthe Office of 21 Hearingsstaff, thismorningindicating-- oh, 22 I'm sorry, it was yesterday; excuse me, the

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1 January 30, 2014

-- indicating that, because 2 of the very cold weather that the Atlantic 3 Region is experiencing, the FAA office that 4 Mr. Vines utilizes in Atlanta, Georgia has 5 been closed. So, he has not been able to get 6 a copy of the exhibits to send to the Court. 7 Is that a correct statement, Mr. 8 Vines, about the communique that occurred 9 between you and my staff and Mr. Honeycutt? 10 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And, Mr. 12 Honeycutt, would you also agree that's a 13 correctsummationof the expartecontactthat 14 occurred? 15 MR. HONEYCUTT: I agree, Your 16 Honor. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I, then, 18 received on January 31, 2014, earlier this 19 morning, a copyof an email fromMr. Honeycutt 20 to my staff and Mr. Vines talking about a 21 Freedomof Informationrequestand, then, also 22 providing that by email.

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1 Mr. Vines, did you get a copy of 2 that? 3 MR. VINES: An email that was sent 4 today at 9:49, yes. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Just so 6 that you both know, we do not accept email 7 filings in this office. And I appreciatethat 8 this was very last-minute, but, again, we 9 don't have any system set up to accept or log 10 in email filings. We just don't. 11 So, ln the future, please do not 12 email material to one of my staff members, in 13 the assumption that that's going to become 14 part of the record. 15 And I will ask you, Mr. Honeycutt, 16 to formallyfax this documentor the documents 17 to my office, so that we have a fax record of 18 filing. Andyou needto also send this to the 19 Hearing Docket Clerk if you want this to be 20 considered as part of the record. 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I will

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com46 1 certainly consider it today as part of the 2 record, but I want you to know that we won't 3 be forwarding this to the Hearing Docket and 4 it hasn't been logged in as a formal filing at 5 this point. 6 So, let's chat about that for just 7 a minute. And I've got a couple of questions 8 for you about this. 9 It appears to me that most of this 10 materialthathas beendiscussedandexchanged 11 by the parties was exchangedyears ago, prior 12 to this case ever reaching the Office of 13 Hearings, and certainly prior to the point 14 where this Court got involvedand directedthe 15 parties to engage in discovery. 16 So, my first question to you, Mr. 17 Honeycutt, as themovingparty, is, why didn't 18 you ask for any of this material during the 19 discovery process that was -- 20 MR. HONEYCUTT: Well, Your Honor, 21 would you like me to go ahead? I'm sorry. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: yes, let me

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-- that was outlined and codified in 2 writing for you last year? What happened? 3 MR. HONEYCUTT: Your Honor, in our 4 Interrogatories and in our Rule 26, we 5 addressed that we're only using what the 6 Government, Mr. Vines, will provide. We're 7 goingto use that informationas our evidence. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, but if you 9 thought that you needed to get a full and 10 completecopyof theEnforcementInvestigative 11 Report, whichwe havebeenabbreviatingin our 12 litigation here as the EIR

-- 13 MR. HONEYCUTT: Uh-hum. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN:

-- why didn't you 15 ask for it during the discovery phase of the 16 litigation? You had an opportunity to 17 formally request production of it up until 18 approximatelyAugust 26th, 2013, when general 19 discovery ended. Was there some reason why 20 you didn't take advantageof that opportunity? 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, rna'am. Under 22 Rule 26, it'smy understandingthat (A) (1) (a),

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWIN.nealrgross.com48 1 ln general, except as exempt by the Rule 2 26(A) (1) (b), or other wise stipulated and 3 ordered by the Court, "a party must, without 4 awaiting a discovery request, provide to the 5 other parties," Roman numeral No. II, "a copy 6 or descriptionby categoryand locationof all 7 documents." 8 By Mr. Vines' Rule 26, he listed 9 the releasableportionsof the EnforcementAct 10 or file, but, yet, failedto provideme a copy 11 of it, as requiredby Rule 26(A). So, I was 12 assumingthat, underthat rule, that Mr. Vines 13 would provide me with that copy. And also, 14 continuing in that rule, No. (5), "claiming 15 privilege or protecting trial preparation 16 material. Informationwithheld. When a party 17 withholds information otherwise discoverable 18 by claimingthat informationis privilegedand 19 subject to protection as trial preparation 20 material, the party must," Roman numeral No. 21 I, "expresslymake the claimand, II, describe 22 the nature of the document/communicationwith

NEALR. GROSS (202)234·4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com49 1 tangiblethingsnotproducedordisclosed, and 2 do so in a manner without revealing 3 information itself privileged or protected, 4 will enable the other parties to assess the s claim and reference a log of withheld 6 information.'' 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I'm 8 familiar with that, and I have a copy of the 9 rules right in front of me. 10 MR. HONEYCUTT: So, that was my, 11 Your Honor 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'mgoing to stop 13 you, sir. Sir, I'm going to stop you. 14 MR. HONEYCUTT: Okay. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I also have a 16 copy of the June 6th, 2013 Order setting 17 litigation dates and procedures in front of 18 me. And that talks about what you do if you 19 don't get the discoverythat you want and how 20 to go bout getting the Court's attention and 21 help if you don't get the discovery that you 22 want.

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.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com50 1 So, I think, for me, the question 2 is not what you had hoped to get without 3 asking for it. The question is, why didn't 4 you move to compel it when you didn't get it 5 when you thought you should? 6 MR. HONEYCUTT: To be honest with 7 you, my layman knowledge of the rules. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let 9 me ask you this then: in terms of what you 10 think is there, what do you think is there 11 that wouldbe helpful to you that you haven't 12 already gotten? 13 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is the 14 problem, Your Honor; I don't have a log of 15 what is not released to me for me to come to 16 that conclusion that you're asking for. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you -- 18 MR. HONEYCUTT: I mean/ I 19 understandthat I didn't follow the procedure 20 as laid out on June 6th over discovery. So, 21 therefore, bynot followingthat rule, andthe 22 argument that the Complainant makes in

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com51 1 response of not having to produce that 2 information, I ask the Court, then, is Mr. 3 Vines and the Administrator in violation by 4 not producing, under Rule 26, as he is 5 required to do? So, therefore, who violated 6 which first? 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I think the 8 real issue is that you are the one that is 9 requesting relief right now. So, you are th 1

### o one thathas to first showcompliancewiththe 11 rule. And you alsohave to showthatyou have 12 made a good-faitheffort to identify to your 13 friend across the aisle what it is that you 14 want, when you want it, and why you want it, 15 and that you have a right to it. 16 When you do that, and you still 17 don't get a full package as you would like, 18 then the rules and the Court Order requires 19 you to bring it to my attention in a certain 20 way within a certainperiod of time, so that 21 I can assist you. 22 And what has happened is none of

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com52 1 that happened. And we're way beyond the 2 discoveryperiod, and you're telling us that 3 youneededdiscovery. AndMr. Vines' response 4 to this request is that you're too late, 5 accordingto what I have readinhis material. 6 And my question to you at this 7 point is, I don't know what the documents are 8 that you have in your hand, but you must have 9 some idea of what it is that you think the 10 missingportionwouldgive to you. Andyou're 11 telling me that you don't know. 12 MR. HONEYCUTT: I don't know if I 13 have a complete file, Your Honor, is my 14 stance, that Mr. Vines didn't provide me a 15 copy. He provided the attorney who withdrew 16 from this case the releasable portions and, 17 yet, did not provide what was withheld and a 18 log of that, so I could make a determination 19 of what I felt I could go after. 20 And then, the question that I 21 would pose also to the Court is, is it 22 privileged information in litigation? And I

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com53 1 feel that I can't put a proper defense 2 together without the complete file, for the 3 fact that they draw conclusions from that 4 file, but, yet, decide what's releasable and 5 what's not. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. The first 7 point that you make is whether or not it's 8 privileged. In the way that these kinds of 9 cases go, I don't get to open that door 10 necessarilyuntil you prove that you have the 11 standing to discuss the matter. 12 So, for example, if you don't do 13 what you're supposed to do when you're 14 supposed to do it, you don't get to go into 15 all the other arguments; the door remains 16 closed. 17 MR. HONEYCUTT: I agree with you 18 on that, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. So, let me 20 ask you this: did you get a copy of the 21 redactedEIRfromyourattorneybeforehe left 22 his representation of your case?

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com54 1 MR. HONEYCUTT: In 2011, I did 2 receive some information from the attorney 3 that was the redacted EIR. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, you 5 already have that? 6 MR. HONEYCUTT: I'm, again, not 7 sure what the complete file is, but I do 8 have I mean, I don't know if that's 9 completelywhat Mr. Vines is goingto bringto 10 Court or if he is going to bring another 11 document that's not ln what I have. Because, 12 again, Mr. Vines did not release to me any 13 part of the file. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I understandthat 15 you'retellingme that Mr. Vines has not given 16 you anything recently. Is that accurate? 17 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is correct 18 that Mr. Vines has not sent me anything since 19 I've been representing Worldwide. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, but, as I 21 understand it from the record before me, you 22 haven't asked him to, either.

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vvww.nealrgross.com55 1 MR. HONEYCUTT: I did not make a 2 formal request, yes, to Mr. Vines, no. And 3 the document that you're referencing, my 4 Freedom of Information Act that I requested 5 from both the Tampa FSOD Manager, who is 6 leading this investigation, and also in 7 Washington, D.C., the Freedom of Information 8 Act to the FAA there, I requested that and I 9 spoke to Mr. Vines once I became

-- once my 10 attorney stepped down and was no longer 11 wanting to represent us, I had mentioned to 12 himthat I wanteda completefile. And again, 13 he said it was privileged information. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 15 MR. HONEYCUTT: I never made a 16 formal request in letter to him. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But this was just 18 a conversation you had on the phone? 19 MR. HONEYCUTT: Yes, ma'am. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and you 21 MR. HONEYCUTT: But good faith, as 22 youmentionedearlier, was the fact that I did

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1 send in the FOI and I did have a conversation 2 with him about it. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And I '11 4 note that ln the emailed materials that I 5 received this morning through my attorney 6 staff, you do have a copy of the June 24, 2009 7 letter to an FAA employeerequesting, through 8 the FOIA Act, a full copy of the EIR. And I 9 take it that, between June 24, 2009 and 10 today's date, January 31, 2014, you have 11 gotten either no response or an inadequate 12 response from the person you addressed this 13 letter to? 14 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is correct, 15 ma'am, I have not had any response reference 16 both letters. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say 18 "bothletters," as I look at thematerial, you 19 also have a letter dated June 24, 2009 that 2

### o has no individualname, just a general letter 21 to the FAA, againrequestingan expeditedFOIA 22 release.

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1 MR. HONEYCUTT: That is correct, 2 ma'am. I sent it to the Aviation 3 AdministrationNationalFreedomof Information 4 Act staff, ARC-40, and addressed it to the 5 officer at that location. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Since June 24, 7 2009, haveyou followedup on these lettersat 8 all? 9 MR. HONEYCUTT: Not otherthan the 10 conversation that I had with Mr. Vines. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In terms 12 of the material that you do have in front of 13 you that purports to be the redacted copy of 14 the EIR, what portion are redacted? Can you 15 tell me anything about the portions that are 16 redacted? 17 For example, did you have a 25- 18 page EIR with one page redacted, 15 pages 19 redacted, 24 of the 25 pages redacted? Can 20 you give me a sense of you're looking at and 21 why you're unhappy with it? 22 MR. HONEYCUTT: The file that I

NEALR. GROSS (202)234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWN.nealrgross.com58 1 have is for officialuse only. It starts with 2 No. 1, Statement of the Case. Part of that 3 paragraphon that first page is redacted; the 4 second page, page 3 of that, over two-thirds 5 of the page is redacted. The next page is 6 completely redacted. 7 So, therefore, for me to draw 8 conclusions, again, Your Honor, I can't draw 9

-- I don't read riddles, with no disrespect 10 meant, Your Honor. 11 But, again, it is my understanding 12 that the Administrator took this file and 13 compiledand came to a conclusionthat I have 14 violated regulations. And I have asked for 15 the complete file, so I can come to the 16 conclusion and have the same information to 17 defend the allegation. 18 So, the question, is it 19 privileged? And again, I go back to we're 20 referencing I didn't follow procedure laid 21 down in June for discovery, but I would also 22 ask, did Mr. Vines follow procedure of Rule

NEALR.GROSS (202)234-4433 COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com59 1 26? 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is there anything 3 else that you would like to add to yourmotion 4 at this point? 5 MR. HONEYCUTT: I feel that it's 6 tainted information, that Mr. Vines didn't 7 follow Rule 26, didn't provide me the 8 information that's due me, regardless if I 9 requestedit, as it states in the beginningof 10 the rule and, therefore, has denied me the 11 ability to build a case. 12 And anybody that he is going to 13 call referencingthat file, I ask the Court to 14 strike the InvestigativeReport file, for the 15 fact that Mr. Vines did not produce it as 16 required. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay. 18 Thank you very much. 19 Mr. Vines, do you have any 20 response? 21 MR. VINES: Judge, none other than 22 what's in my motion.

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