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36–061PDF 2007

U.N. PEACEKEEPING FORCES: A FORCE

MULTIPLIER FOR THE U.S.?

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL 

ORGANIZATIONS, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND OVERSIGHT

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

JUNE 13, 2007

Serial No. 110–61

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/
(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

TOM LANTOS, California, Chairman 

HOWARD L. BERMAN, California 

GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York 

ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American 

Samoa 

DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

ROBERT WEXLER, Florida 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

BILL DELAHUNT, Massachusetts 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

DIANE E. WATSON, California 

ADAM SMITH, Washington 

RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri 

JOHN S. TANNER, Tennessee 

GENE GREEN, Texas 

LYNN C. WOOLSEY, California 

SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas 

RUBE ́ N HINOJOSA, Texas 

JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York 

DAVID WU, Oregon 

BRAD MILLER, North Carolina 

LINDA T. SA ́ NCHEZ, California 

DAVID SCOTT, Georgia 

JIM COSTA, California 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GABRIELLE GIFFORDS, Arizona 

RON KLEIN, Florida 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

DAN BURTON, Indiana 

ELTON GALLEGLY, California 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado 

RON PAUL, Texas 

JEFF FLAKE, Arizona 

JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia 

MIKE PENCE, Indiana 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas 

J. GRESHAM BARRETT, South Carolina 

CONNIE MACK, Florida 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

BOB INGLIS, South Carolina 

LUIS G. FORTUN ̃ O, Puerto Rico 

GUS BILIRAKIS, Florida 

ROBERT R. KING, Staff Director 

YLEEM POBLETE, Republican Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND

OVERSIGHT

BILL DELAHUNT, Massachusetts, Chairman 

RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri 

DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

RON PAUL, Texas 

JEFF FLAKE, Arizona 

CLIFF STAMMERMAN, Subcommittee Staff Director 

NATALIE COBURN, Subcommittee Professional Staff Member 

PHAEDRA DUGAN, Republican Professional Staff Member 

ELISA PERRY, Staff Associate 
(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESSES 

Steven Groves, J.D., Bernard and Barbara Lomas Fellow, The Margaret 

Thatcher Center for Freedom, The Heritage Foundation ................................. 6

Mr. Joseph A. Christoff, Director, International Affairs and Trade Team, 

Government Accountability Office ...................................................................... 10

The Honorable James Dobbins, Director, International Security and Defense 

Policy Center, National Security Research Division, RAND Corporation ....... 32

The Honorable Timothy E. Wirth, President, United Nations Foundation ........ 48

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

Steven Groves, J.D.: Prepared statement .............................................................. 8

Mr. Joseph A. Christoff: Prepared statement ........................................................ 12

The Honorable James Dobbins: Prepared statement ........................................... 35

The Honorable Timothy E. Wirth: Prepared statement ....................................... 51

APPENDIX 

Mr. Joseph A. Christoff: Revised prepared statement .......................................... 82

(1)

U.N. PEACEKEEPING FORCES: A FORCE 

MULTIPLIER FOR THE U.S.? 

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 13, 2007

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS,

HUMAN RIGHTS, AND OVERSIGHT,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:13 a.m. in room 

2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Bill Delahunt (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I thought I would inform the panel and the audience as to why there is the absence of Mr. Rohrabacher and my colleagues. It behooves me to note that, last evening, we were on the 

floor of the House voting until about 2:30 a.m., and I presume that 

some of the members have had difficulty rising early this morning. 

So, with the approval of the ranking member, who hopefully will 

join us shortly, let me proceed. 

First of all, welcome to a very distinguished panel, and on behalf 

of my good friend and Ranking Member Dana Rohrabacher, I again 

extend a warm welcome to the four of you. This is truly a distinguished panel. 

As you are aware, this hearing is about the effectiveness of the 

United Nations peacekeeping operations. With the ongoing war in 

Iraq, we need to seriously think about how we accomplish as a Nation our foreign policy objectives with global challenges such as the 

spread of nuclear weapons, the continued threat of al-Qaeda, thousands of civilians being killed and displaced around the world, constrained resources arising from historically high deficits, and a 

United States military stretched thin. 

Engaging multilateral organizations can help the United States 

to safeguard our national interest at a lower cost to the United 

States and to the American taxpayer. I would submit that nowhere 

is this more evident than with United Nations peacekeeping. In 

military terms, they can be a force multiplier. In somewhat more 

colloquial language, they increase the bang for our buck. 

A recent GAO report commissioned by Mr. Rohrabacher and myself found that if the United States were to conduct its own peacekeeping operation in Haiti, it would cost American taxpayers eight 

times as much as the United Nations mission does. Eight times. 

Let me repeat that. I have no doubt that without the United Nations’ presence, we would have witnessed an orgy of violence on 

that tragic island. Secretary Rice remarked that ‘‘if there were not 
2

Brazilians in Haiti as United Nations peacekeepers, there would be 

U.S. Marines.’’

Of course, with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the United 

States military is stretched to the breaking point. We read those 

reports on a regular basis. The fact of the matter is that, in Haiti, 

the United Nations is furthering our interest at a comparatively 

low cost, and the same goes for other U.N. operations around the 

world, whether in Lebanon, West Africa or the planned mission in 

Darfur. 

It should be noted that yesterday it was reported that an agreement was reached which would authorize an expansion of up to 

25,000 AU-United Nations peacekeepers from the current 7,000 in 

Darfur. Many on this committee have expressed concern about the 

ongoing genocide in that region, and this new development at least 

offers hope. Where would we be without the United Nations as an 

option? 

Secretary Rice also observed that, in her words, United Nations 

peacekeeping is more cost-effective than using American forces, 

and, of course, America does not have all of the forces to do all of 

the peacekeeping missions, but somebody has to do them. ‘‘Well, 

the peacekeeping operation is the way that we do something, and 

we do it for other people’s forces.’’ Those are the words of Secretary 

Rice. 

Furthermore, because it is a multilateral organization, the 

United Nations is often able to go where the U.S. would not necessarily be welcomed, but where we have a significant interest. For 

example, the U.N. mission on the Israeli-Lebanon border is seen as 

a more neutral force than would be an American deployment. In 

fact, if they were U.S. troops, I would expect that they would be 

facing daily combat and terrorist attacks. Instead, the U.N. mission 

seems to have kept the peace, at least temporarily. 

I would also note that Prime Minister Olmert of Israel yesterday 

suggested the possibility of an international peacekeeping force on 

the border of Gaza and Israel. I have no doubt that the U.N. will 

continue to be asked to respond to international crises that would 

obviate the need for American military involvement. 

Now, I have no illusions about the need for reform, continued reform, in terms of U.N. peacekeeping. I am well aware of its problems and believe that efforts to reform should be a U.N. priority. 

Like many others, I am clearly concerned about reports of abuse 

of women and children. The goal of reform should be to make 

peacekeeping more effective, not just to address the scandal of the 

day. I am particularly interested in ensuring that peacekeepers are 

held accountable for any harm that they cause to the very civilians 

that they are supposed to protect. 

As a permanent member of the Security Council, the United 

States has backed the creation and the renewal of every U.N. 

peacekeeping operation. Nevertheless, even as we continue to authorize new missions, we are not paying our dues fully to support 

them; in fact, we are behind. But I know that the House Appropriations Committee has sought to make up for some of that shortfall. 

This is not just an academic discussion. The United Nations is 

currently in the midst, as I said, of planning its largest peacekeeping operation ever: The mission in Darfur to stop the genocide. 
3

I recognize the work that the administration has done so far to 

support this, and I know that other member states bear more responsibility than we for the delay in the deployment of this force, 

but U.N. peacekeeping must be fully funded so that we have a 

chance to be effective. 

Now, before introducing our witnesses, let me turn to my good 

friend and ranking member, the late—well, I do not mean ‘‘late’’—

the gentleman from California for any remarks that he may wish 

to make. 

Dana. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much. 

Let me compliment the chairman for having been up last night, 

working as long as I was, and still being on time this morning. I 

hope that your sense of responsibility and my can of Red Bull will 

carry us through today. 

We have a fundamentally different philosophy when it comes to 

multilateral approaches to solving problems in the world. I do not 

see the United Nations as being the positive force that you have 

observed. For example, when I see U.N. peacekeepers, generally I 

see that there are large numbers of troops that are ill-equipped and 

ill-trained, as compared to our own military; people from Third 

World countries sending troops to various other countries, who 

then have their nationals participate. Their effect on the mission 

and their actual ability to achieve the goals are so small compared 

to what American troops, who are well-equipped and well-trained, 

can do. 

We have all heard about Abu Ghraib, you know, and let us just 

note that that pales in comparison to the monstrous crimes that 

have been committed under U.N. troop auspices in Africa, where 

millions of people have been killed while U.N. troops were present 

in Bosnia. One incident comes to mind where even Dutch troops 

were present while 8,000 people were slaughtered. But, of course, 

the world and others who are analyzing, you know, the nature of 

governments and activities like this in this world, focus on Abu 

Ghraib, while the world has forgotten these at least hundreds of 

thousands of people slaughtered while U.N. troops did not do their 

job. Again, of the troops that come, many of them are not welltrained, and they are not well-disciplined. 

For example, the United Nations has had 7 years to implement 

operational management reforms recommended by the Brahimi report and over 2 years to implement the recommendations contained 

in the Ziad report on sexual exploitation and abuse by U.N. peacekeepers. Where is the reform? 

How can we sit here and suggest that we are going to move toward a situation where we are more dependent on this type of cooperation with troops who conduct themselves in that way? It suggests, of course, that the United States troops do make mistakes. 

Let us note that, as to everybody involved in Abu Ghraib—as compared to slaughtering those other people, which was ignored—we 

actually kicked them out of the service, and there was heavy discipline and a public recognition of their misbehavior and their 

criminal activity. I do not see that happening with U.N. troops 

from other countries. I see just the opposite, where people are getting away with this sort of stuff. Now, with that in mind, can we 
4

just say, yeah, we are going to save some money here by dealing 

through the U.N.? 

I do not believe that we, the United States, should be sending 

troops to Darfur. I do not. I do not believe that. I do not believe 

we should be sending our troops all over the world to try to right 

every wrong. We should not be on the side of the evil or bad people 

who are doing things, but at the same time, we do not owe it to 

the world to send our troops everywhere and try to be the force 

that saves everyone. You know, we should at least be siding with 

those people who we consider to be more pro-democratic or some 

people who actually are more benevolent in certain areas as compared to other forces. But in Darfur, I will wait and see. 

I am sure that we are going to be doing something there, or the 

U.N. will be doing something there. It will be interesting to watch, 

because the U.N. troops that have gone to other countries in Africa 

have not been effective, and I will be anxious to hear from the 

panel of why I am wrong on this. I am open-minded. I will listen 

to what you have to say. You know, I will. I will listen to it. 

As I say, when I notice that so many of these horrendous failures 

of the United Nations have been ignored, failures that have cost 

the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, I do not have faith 

in the organization. Up until recently, the United Nations just 

turned its back on reforms that were necessary to cure the scandals. We finally got some action, but it took an enormous amount 

of time to get the executives at the U.N. to pay attention to the 

scandals that we, ourselves, on this committee were trying to bring 

forth to their attention. 

So, with that said, I have a great deal of skepticism, but I am 

an honest person, and I think the American people are honest, and 

I am willing to listen. 

I thank you. I am grateful to you for bringing a provocative topic 

that we can listen to and stir public debate about. 

Thank you so much. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I thank the gentleman for his remarks. 

I do agree with one of his observations in terms of sending American troops all over the world. I do not think we have any troops 

left to send anywhere, to be perfectly candid with you, but I would 

note that there are, as of December 31st, 2006, some 300 American 

personnel serving in U.N. peacekeeping, and I would note that 

there are 80,000 uniformed personnel from elsewhere, from other 

nations, who are serving in U.N. peacekeeping operations. 

I think it is important to put that in context because I would 

suggest that not only are we saving precious taxpayer dollars, but 

we are saving American lives, because, as I indicated in my opening statement, I daresay, that if American military forces were stationed and deployed along the border between Lebanon and Israel, 

it would have incited terrorist attacks and clearly implicated American forces in yet another quagmire. 

Let me begin by briefly introducing all of the witnesses here, and 

then we will go to opening statements. 

Let me begin with Senator Wirth. He has a splendid resume here 

that would take a long time to read, but let me try to shorten it. 

He is the president of the United Nations Foundation and Better 

World Fund. He had the honor of serving from 1975 to 1987 as a 
5

Member of the United States House of Representatives from Colorado. He then was elected to the Senate, where he focused on environmental issues such as global climate change and population stabilization. From 1993 to 1997, the Senator served as the first 

Under Secretary for Global Affairs at the Department of State. He 

has led the formulation of the U.N. foundation’s mission and program priorities, which include the environment, women and population, children’s health, and peace, security, and human rights. He 

is a graduate of Harvard, which clearly makes him a distinguished 

gentleman, and he holds a Ph.D. from Stanford. 

Welcome, Senator. 

Next is Ambassador Jim Dobbins. He is the Director of International Security and Defense Policy Center at the RAND National 

Security Research Division. Prior to this position, he served as Assistant Secretary of State for Europe. He was intimately involved 

in the Balkans during the conflagration that was occurring there. 

He is a Special Assistant to the President for the Western Hemisphere. We first met when he had the brief, if you will, for Haiti 

at a particularly difficult time in the history of that tragic nation. 

He was the special advisor to the President and Secretary of State 

for the Balkans. He was the Bush administration’s representative 

to the Afghan opposition in the wake of 9/11, and he received his 

training at Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service. 

Welcome, Ambassador. 

Joe Christoff is the Director of the Government Accountability’s 

International Affairs and Trade Team. In this position he directs 

GAO’s work at U.S. agencies. He is responsible for nonproliferation, 

export control and international security issues. He also leads the 

GAO efforts of reviewing reconstruction and security issues in Iraq. 

I want to compliment him publicly for that specific work. It has 

greatly added to the public discourse, and it has been an essential 

component of information for Members of Congress. 

He has testified before numerous congressional committees on 

these and other international affairs issues. He has a master’s degree from American University and a B.A. in Public Policy from the 

University of Ohio. He, too, is a graduate of Harvard’s Senior Executive Fellow programs and the MIT program on national security 

issues. 

Joseph, welcome once more. 

Steve Groves joined The Heritage Foundation in 2007 as the Bernard and Barbara Lomas Fellow at the Margaret Thatcher Center 

for Freedom. Mr. Groves is responsible for developing and running 

the Freedom Project, advancing Anglo-American leadership on 

global freedom issues, including human rights. From 2003 to 2006, 

Mr. Groves was senior counsel to the U.S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations chaired by Senator Coleman of Minnesota. Mr. Groves holds a law degree from Ohio Northern University College of Law and a bachelor’s degree in history from Florida 

State University. 

Welcome, Steve. 

Why don’t we begin with the testimony by Mr. Groves. We will 

go back this way, and we will end up and have Senator Wirth as 

the cleanup here. 
6

I understand that we are going to have votes around 11 o’clock. 

We do not use a gavel in this particular subcommittee, so you take 

your time, but at the same time, I would ask you to be aware of 

that 11 o’clock bell. 

Mr. Groves. 

STATEMENT OF STEVEN GROVES, J.D., BERNARD AND BARBARA LOMAS FELLOW, THE MARGARET THATCHER CENTER 

FOR FREEDOM, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION 

Mr. GROVES. I will try to speak quickly. 

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Congressman Rohrabacher. 

Thank you for inviting me to testify this morning. 

With southern Lebanon lurking in the near past and Darfur, as 

you mentioned, looming over the horizon, the issues relating to the 

utility and proper role of United Nations peacekeeping are ripe for 

debate. 

Now, the title of today’s hearing implies that U.N. peacekeepers 

could represent a force multiplier to U.S. Armed Forces. Now, 

‘‘force multiplier’’ is a military term. It is a term describing a capability that, when added to and employed by a combat force, significantly increases the combat potential of that force and thus enhances the probability of success. U.N. peacekeepers, however, 

have not demonstrated in recent history an ability to reliably and 

adequately support United States combat operations, most notably 

in Somalia in 1993. 

That being said, there are limited circumstances in which U.N. 

peacekeepers may qualify as a force multiplier under a very broad 

interpretation of that term. For example, U.N. peacekeeping missions may serve certain purposes in locations around the world 

where the United States has national interests, such as Haiti, as 

you mentioned, but they are situations where the United States 

has, for one reason or another, declined to intervene with its own 

armed forces. 

The relevant issue today does not concern the semantics of 

whether or not U.N. peacekeepers are a force multiplier, but rather 

whether and under what circumstances U.N. peacekeeping serves 

the vital national interests of the United States. 

Now, what qualifies as a ‘‘vital national interest’’ today in the 

post-9/11 world may not have necessarily qualified in the pre-9/11 

world and vice versa. What is important is that the U.S. has benefited from the placement of U.N. forces in locations that otherwise 

may have required U.S. military intervention, which has, in turn, 

allowed U.S. forces to deploy elsewhere in the world where our 

vital national interests are actually at stake. 

But our analysis cannot end there. Merely because in some limited circumstances U.N. peacekeeping serves U.S. interests, it does 

not follow that American taxpayers should be called upon to shoulder an increase in the level of U.S. contributions to U.N. peacekeeping operations or that they should pay any peacekeeping arrearages that are allegedly owed. That conclusion assumes that the 

status quo of U.N. peacekeeping operations is acceptable, which it 

is not. There are many problems with the current state of U.N. 

peacekeeping operations, all well documented in reports such as 

those issued by the U.S. Government Accountability Office and by 
7

the U.N.’s own Office of Internal Oversight Services, including a recent finding that $265 million worth of peacekeeping procurement 

contracts were subject to waste, fraud or abuse. But those problems 

pale in comparison to the main reason that the U.S. should not accept the status quo, and that is the persistence, as you mentioned, 

of sexual exploitation perpetrated by U.N. peacekeepers. 

The instances of sexual exploitation have been widely reported 

and need not be described in detail here today, but suffice it to say 

that the irony of those abuses should not be lost on anybody in this 

room. It is beyond comprehension that U.N. peacekeepers who have 

been sent to protect the most destitute and desperate populations 

on Earth should use their position of power to sexually exploit 

those who have already been victimized by their circumstances. 

Now, the worst punishment faced by U.N. peacekeepers who 

have been accused of sexual misconduct has been to be repatriated 

to their home countries, and this is apparently all the U.N. is empowered to do. Offending peacekeepers rarely face discipline, much 

less criminal prosecution, upon their return home. The U.K. Independent newspaper recently found that of 200 U.N. personnel who 

have been repatriated for sexual offenses over the past 3 years, 

none have been prosecuted in their home countries. That is what 

is unacceptable. 

Now, there is a solution to this travesty, and the solution is for 

the United Nations to amend the Status of Forces Agreements that 

it enters into with member states that contribute peacekeeping personnel. Status of Forces Agreements, or SOFAs, memorialize the 

terms and conditions for the deployment of troops to peacekeeping 

missions. SOFAs generally place the responsibility upon troop-contributing countries to prosecute their own personnel for crimes 

committed during peacekeeping missions. However, there are no 

mechanisms available to the U.N. to either enforce or to monitor 

those provisions of the SOFA. So SOFAs should, therefore, be 

amended to require troop-contributing member states to investigate, prosecute and punish their nationals when there is credible 

evidence of criminal wrongdoing. Member states must be required 

to report to the U.N. on the status of its investigations and prosecutions as well as on the final disposition of all credible allegations. States that fail to fulfill their SOFA commitments should be 

barred from providing troops to peacekeeping missions, plain and 

simple. 

The U.N. should also maintain a database of the names of peacekeeping personnel who have been accused, charged or convicted of 

crimes committed while serving in a peacekeeping mission. That is 

so that offenders are not permitted to participate in future operations. 

Now, these changes will not guarantee that peacekeepers will not 

abuse local populations, but they will give strong incentives to contributing member states to take action against offenders, which is 

something they apparently have little interest in doing under the 

status quo. 

In conclusion, it is premature to discuss whether and under what 

circumstances U.N. peacekeepers qualify as a force multiplier for 

the United States or whether peacekeepers could serve U.S. national interests. It is certainly premature to debate whether U.S. 
8

taxpayer dollars should be used to increase or to augment our contributions to peacekeeping activities or to pay alleged arrearages. 

U.S. taxpayers do not want to continue to underwrite sexual abuse 

in the world’s most desperate, war-torn nations. Only after the Status of Forces Agreements are amended and the U.N. Department 

of Peacekeeping Operations has been reformed so that it may perform its duties at the highest level of professionalism, should those 

matters be addressed and debated. 

Thank you very much and I look forward to answering any questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Groves follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF STEVEN GROVES, J.D., BERNARD AND BARBARA LOMAS

FELLOW, THE MARGARET THATCHER CENTER FOR FREEDOM, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION

INTRODUCTION

Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to 

testify this morning. With southern Lebanon in the near past and Darfur looming 

ahead, the issues relating to the utility and proper role of U.N. peacekeeping operations are certainly ripe for debate. 

‘‘FORCE MULTIPLIERS’’ AND U.S. NATIONAL INTERESTS

At the outset, the term ‘‘force multiplier’’ should be dispensed with when assessing U.N. peacekeeping capabilities. ‘‘Force multiplier’’ is a military term defined as 

a capability that, when added to and employed by a combat force, significantly increases the combat potential of that force and thus enhances the probability of success. Force multipliers can be a technologically advanced weapons system, or simply 

holding the ‘‘high ground’’ during a military engagement. 

The key term within the definition of force multiplier, however, is combat, which 

is why U.N. peacekeepers are not now and will not for the foreseeable future be a 

force multiplier for U.S. armed forces. U.N. peacekeepers have not shown the ability 

to reliably and adequately support U.S. operations in today’s combat environment. 

Part of the reason why U.N. peacekeepers cannot qualify as force multipliers is 

that they usually operate under an unclear or insufficient use of force mandate. Inadequate use of force mandates have had disastrous consequences in the past, such 

as the decision by U.N. forces to stand down in the face of atrocities and massacres 

in Rwanda in 1994 and Srebrenica in 1995. U.N. peacekeepers that, for whatever 

reason, have failed to defend themselves have been taken as hostages by hostile 

forces, as occurred in Sarajevo in 1995 and Sierra Leone in 2000. When U.S. forces 

most needed the assistance of U.N. troops—in Somalia in 1993—their performance 

was less than stellar by most accounts. These incidents do not inspire much confidence in U.N. peacekeeping capabilities. 

That being said, U.S. administrations have often relied upon U.N. peacekeepers 

to serve certain limited purposes around the world where the United States has interests, but has declined to intervene with its own armed forces. If the U.N. peacekeepers qualify as a force multiplier, it is under those circumstances. In sum, U.N. 

peacekeeping forces are not a ‘‘force multiplier’’ unless you define that phrase broadly enough to include any instance that U.N. peacekeeping forces would be utilized 

instead of U.S. forces, which could in turn be deployed elsewhere in the world. 

In the final equation, the debate over the utility of U.N. peacekeepers does not 

turn on semantics. The real question to be answered is not whether U.N. peacekeepers could possibly be a ‘‘force multiplier’’ for U.S. armed forces, but rather 

whether and under what circumstances U.N. peacekeeping serves the vital, national 

interests of the United States. 

What does or does not qualify as a vital, national interest of the United States 

is a subject of debate among experts in international relations and military affairs. 

What qualifies as a vital, national interest to the United States in the post-9/11 

world may not have qualified in the pre-9/11 world, and vice versa. Suffice to say 

for purposes of the present hearing that the United States has benefited from the 

placement of U.N. forces in locations where the world may have otherwise called 

for U.S. military intervention, which has in turn allowed U.S. forces to deploy elsewhere in the world where our vital national interests are actually at stake. 
9

THE STATUS QUO IS UNACCEPTABLE

But the analysis does not end there. Merely because in some, limited circumstances U.N. peacekeeping serves U.S. interests it does not necessarily follow 

that American taxpayers should be called upon to shoulder an increase in the level 

of U.S. contributions to U.N. peacekeeping operations, or that they should pay any 

peacekeeping ‘‘arrearages’’ allegedly owed. That conclusion assumes that the status 

quo of U.N. peacekeeping operations is acceptable. 

There are many problems, however, with the current state of U.N. peacekeeping 

operations, all well-documented in reports such as those issued by the U.S. Government Accountability Office and the U.N. Office of Internal Oversight Services. The 

U.N. peacekeeping program has more than quadrupled in size since 1999 without 

a commensurate strengthening of its internal control mechanisms. An internal U.N. 

audit of one billion dollars worth of peacekeeping procurement contracts found that 

at least $265 million of those expenditures was subject to waste, fraud, or abuse. 

Yet all other problems relating to peacekeeping operations pale in comparison to 

the main reason for not accepting the status quo—the persistence of sexual exploitation perpetrated by U.N. peacekeepers. The many instances of sexual exploitation 

are well known and need not be described in detail here, but suffice to say that the 

irony of those abuses should be lost on nobody. The fact that U.N. peacekeepers—

who have been sent to protect the most destitute and desperate populations on 

Earth—should use their position of power to sexually exploit those who have already been victimized by their circumstances is beyond comprehension. 

U.N. peacekeepers must be held accountable for their criminal acts if the U.N. 

is to be viewed as a force for peace and security around the world. In the past, 

peacekeepers who have been credibly accused of sexual misconduct or other crimes 

have, at worst, simply been repatriated to their home countries where they face no 

punishment. This is apparently all the U.N. is empowered to do. The results are 

sadly predicable. An analysis done by the U.K. Independent newspaper in January 

found that while nearly 200 U.N. personnel have been repatriated for sex offences 

over the past 3 years, none appear to have been prosecuted by their home countries. 

That is simply unacceptable. At a minimum, any member state that contributes 

troops or personnel to a peacekeeping mission should be required to cooperate with 

investigations into abuse or misconduct leveled against those personnel. Such investigations may be carried out within the nation where the alleged crime occurred by 

local law enforcement, or if the capacity there is lacking, by U.N. authorities. 

To combat sexual exploitation, the U.N. should implement mandatory, uniform 

standards of conduct for military as well as civilian peacekeeping personnel participating in U.N. missions. It is not enough (as is currently being proposed) to merely 

amend the existing ‘‘peacekeeper’s pocket guide,’’ which has clearly been ignored by 

offending peacekeepers for many years. 

Rather than amend the pocket guide, the U.N. should amend the so-called ‘‘Status 

of Forces Agreements’’ that are entered into by and between the U.N. and each 

member state that contributes peacekeeping personnel to U.N. missions. Status of 

Forces Agreements memorialize the terms and conditions of the troop commitment. 

While these Agreements generally place the responsibility upon the troop-contributing countries to prosecute their own personnel for crimes committed during the 

peacekeeping mission, there are no enforcement mechanisms available to the U.N. 

to monitor that provision. Indeed, prosecutions for crimes committed by peacekeeping personnel when they return to their home countries are few and far between. 

The U.N. must require that member states commit in their respective Status of 

Forces Agreements to investigate, try, and punish their personnel when credible evidence of wrongdoing exists. The Agreements should require member states to report 

on the status of prosecutions of personnel against whom credible allegations of misconduct were made. The member states must also commit to inform the U.N. of the 

outcome of such prosecutions. States that fail to fulfill those commitments should 

be barred from providing troops for peace operations. In addition, the U.N. must 

maintain a database of the names of all peacekeeping personnel who have been accused, charged, or convicted of crimes committed while employed in a peacekeeping 

mission so that the offender is not permitted to participate in future peacekeeping 

operations. 

These new requirements will not guarantee that peacekeepers will not abuse local 

populations, but it should give strong incentives to contributing member states to 

take action against offenders, which is something they apparently have little interest in doing under the status quo. 
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CONCLUSION

In conclusion, it is premature to discuss whether and under what circumstances 

U.N. peacekeeping could serve as a ‘‘force multiplier’’ for U.S. armed forces or even 

whether peacekeepers could complement the vital national interests of the United 

States. It is certainly premature to discuss whether U.S. taxpayer dollars should be 

used to increase our contributions to peacekeeping activities or pay alleged ‘‘arrearages.’’ The United States cannot be seen as the underwriters of sexual abuse in the 

world’s most desperate, war-torn nations. Only after the U.N. Department of Peacekeeping Operations has been reformed in such a manner that it may perform its 

important duties at the highest level of professionalism should those matters be addressed. 

Thank you.

Mr. DELAHUNT. Thank you, Mr. Groves. 

Joe Christoff. 

STATEMENT OF MR. JOSEPH A. CHRISTOFF, DIRECTOR, 

INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND TRADE TEAM, GOVERNMENT 

ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE 

Mr. CHRISTOFF. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Rohrabacher, thanks for 

inviting me back to talk to the committee today about the work 

that we completed for both of you last year. Our work at that time 

compared the costs of a U.N. peacekeeping mission in Haiti to the 

potential costs of a similar United States mission. We chose Haiti 

as a case study because both the United States and the U.N. have 

conducted operations in that country. 

The current U.N. mission in Haiti is to provide security, to assist 

the government and to protect human rights. We used U.N. cost 

data in Haiti to develop comparable data for a United States operation, and the Joint Staff validated our assumptions as reasonable. 

We assumed deployment of the same number of military, civilian 

and police personnel. While our analysis cannot be generalized, it 

does provide useful insights into the costs and effectiveness of U.N. 

and U.S. peacekeeping troops. 

Overall, we found that it would cost the United States twice as 

much as the U.N. to conduct a similar peacekeeping operation in 

Haiti. While the U.N. budgeted $428 million, we estimate that a 

similar U.S. operation would cost $876 million. The difference is 

primarily the result of higher U.S. costs for civilian police, military 

police, and facilities. Let me just briefly discuss each of these cost 

factors. 

First, the estimated costs of deploying American police is $217 million, or about eight times the $25 million budgeted by the 

United Nations. Compensation rates for U.S. police include higher 

costs for salaries, special pay, and training; whereas, the U.N. pays 

police a standard daily allowance. Second, the U.S. military in pay would cost $260 million com- pared with $131 million for the U.N. It costs the U.S. more for 

military salaries, equipment, and ammunition. 

Third, U.S. facilities would cost twice as much as the U.N.’s because U.S. standards require a secure Embassy compound for U.S. 

civilians. 

We also looked at several factors that could change U.S. costs, 

such as using reservists rather than active duty personnel, deploying troops faster or conducting the mission at a higher tempo. Each 

scenario would increase U.S. costs. For example, using reservists 

would cost an additional $477 million. 
11

Costs, however, is not the sole factor in determining whether the 

United States or the U.N. would lead a peacekeeping operation. 

Each offers strengths. Each offers limitations. 

Traditionally, the U.S. military has provided quick deployment, 

a unified command-and-control structure, and well-trained and 

equipped personnel. For example, two United States-led peacekeeping efforts in Haiti were recognized as accomplishing their objectives rapidly and with minimal loss of life. However, ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have resulted in shortfalls in reservists who would be needed for peace operations. These include 

military police, engineers, and civil affairs experts. Also, the high 

operational tempo and the harsh conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan are taking a heavy toll on the military’s equipment. 

Now let us turn to the U.N. The United Nations’ multinational 

character gives it a reputation for impartiality that a single nation 

may not have. For example, 41 countries contributed military and 

police personnel to the U.N. mission in Haiti during its first year. 

The U.N. can tap into a large network of humanitarian agencies 

and development banks. It can thus coordinate international assistance with its peacekeeping missions, and the U.N. has access to 

international civil servants with nation-building experience and diverse language skills. 

However, the U.N.’s limitations include slow deployment, limits 

on command and control, and training and equipment standards 

that vary by country. The U.N. does not have a standing army, a 

police force or the needed equipment to deploy a force quickly. For 

example, during the first 12 weeks of the Haiti mission, the U.N. 

deployed only 30 percent of its authorized military troops and police. 

The U.N. has limitations on the command and control of its 

peacekeeping forces. Troops are under the control of their own 

country, which diffuses the unity of command. In addition, while 

the U.N. sets standards of behavior, contributing countries must 

discipline their own troops. In 2003 and 2004, the U.N. had nearly 

1,200 alleged cases of misconduct or crimes by its peacekeepers. 

Finally, while many developing countries provide well-equipped 

troops with high professional standards, the U.N. reports that some 

troops have arrived without rifles, helmets or other necessary 

equipment. 

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my statement. I am happy to answer your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Christoff follows:]
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Mr. DELAHUNT. Thank you, Mr. Christoff. 

Ambassador Dobbins. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JAMES DOBBINS, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND DEFENSE POLICY 

CENTER, NATIONAL SECURITY RESEARCH DIVISION, RAND 

CORPORATION 

Ambassador DOBBINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Anybody looking at the American occupation of Iraq for the first 

couple of years could be forgiven for thinking that this was the first 

time we had ever done something of this sort. It was one unanticipated challenge after another. It was one improvised response after 

another. 

In fact, as you know, this was not the first time. In fact, it was 

the seventh time in a little more than a decade that the United 

States had liberated a country and then tried to rebuild it. We had 

gone into Kuwait in the early 1990s, and then we went into Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosova, Afghanistan, and, finally, Iraq. Of those 

seven countries, six are Muslim. The only one that is not is Haiti. 

So, when the American Army went into Iraq in 2003, there was no 

army in the world with more experience in nation-building, and 

there was no Western army in the world with more experience operating in a Muslim environment than the American Army. 

So one has to ask how we can do this so often and yet do it so 

badly. The short answer is that, for most of that decade, we simply 

did not take the mission seriously. We did not regard it as a core 

mission of the U.S. military, and we did not professionalize our 

performance. 

At RAND, we have tried to remedy this, to some degree, by 

studying the American experience with nation-building over the 

last 60 years, going back to the German and to the Japanese occupations, and we have also looked at the U.N. performance, and we 

have compared the two records. We looked at eight American missions, the ones I have mentioned, and we also looked at a similar 

number of U.N. missions beginning with the U.N. operation in the 

Belgian Congo in the early 1960s and then the more recent postCold War missions, which most of us are familiar with, and we 

evaluated the experiences against two criteria, very simple criteria. 

First, is the place still peaceful today, or is it not? Did the war resume? Secondly, is the place democratic today or not? We did not 

make a judgment there. We just used Freedom House ratings for 

countries as to whether they were more or less democratic. 

The U.S. score was 50/50. That is, of the eight missions we 

looked at, four of those societies were peaceful and democratic—

Germany, Japan, Bosnia, and Kosovo—and four were not, or at 

least not yet. Those included Haiti, Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. 

The U.N. record on peaceful was actually seven out of eight. That 

is, seven of the countries in civil war had not resumed. As for the 

eighth, the Belgian Congo, the war had resumed, but only 30 years 

after the U.N. left, so it was not a complete waste. 

On democracy, rather surprisingly, the U.N. scored six out of 

eight. That is, six of the eight countries that we looked at were 

judged by Freedom House as more democratic than not. 
33

So it is not a bad record, and it is worth asking why the U.N. 

scored better than the U.S. on this test. One reason, of course, is 

we could have chosen different cases, and if we had, we would have 

gotten different results. We did not pretend this was a scientific 

sampling. 

The second reason is that the U.S. cases were much harder. They 

were bigger. They were tougher. They were peace enforcement, not 

peacekeeping. There was opposition. In many cases, the U.S. had 

to invade to get there in the first place. 

The third reason is also important, and that is that the U.N. simply had become more professional over the last 15 years, and the 

U.S. had not. The U.N. took this as its primary mission. They developed a cadre of people who go from one mission to the next and 

have experience in prior missions, and they reward those people 

and keep them on staff, and they developed an ongoing doctrine 

which slowly improved; whereas, the United States tended to treat 

each mission as if it were the first one it had ever done, and, worse 

than that, we tend to treat each of them as if it were the last one 

we are ever going to do, and we do not internalize the experience 

and draw on it the next time in the ways that we should. 

Now, the administration has recognized that the American occupation of Iraq was not managed as well as it could be, and they 

have instituted a number of very important reforms. They have 

created an office in the State Department to do stabilization and 

reconstruction. The Secretary of Defense put out a directive making 

stabilization operations a core mission of the U.S. military, something, incidentally, that Bill Clinton probably would have been impeached for if he tried to do, and the White House has issued a directive establishing an interagency structure for managing these. 

These are important reforms, and in many ways they go beyond 

what the Clinton administration did in preparing for these operations, and this needs to be recognized. 

Unfortunately, there is the chance that the American people are 

going to draw a different lesson from Iraq, and it is not that we 

need to do it better next time, but that we need to not do it again 

next time. And there is a real danger that we will turn away just 

as we turned away from counterinsurgency after Vietnam, that we 

will turn away from stabilization operations after Iraq and choose 

not to do this rather than to do it better. 

Of course, my own view is that there are two lessons from Iraq. 

One is, sure, do not invade large, hostile, Middle Eastern countries 

on the basis of flawed intelligence with small, narrow coalitions. 

But there is another lesson. Iraq may have been a war of choice, 

but Afghanistan was not, and both of them left us with heavy nation-building burdens, and we are not going to be able to avoid this 

all the time. Therefore, I do think we need to get better. 

Now, the tragedy is that, while most people’s views of nationbuilding tend to be governed either by the early failures like in Somalia and the U.N. in Bosnia, as Congressman Rohrabacher has 

mentioned, and then by the most recent setbacks in Afghanistan 

and Iraq, the fact is that the record is actually pretty good. We got 

a lot better through the 1990s—we, the international community—

at these things, and there are a dozen countries around the world 

that are at peace today and living, in most cases, under democratic 
34

governments because the U.N. or NATO or the American peacekeepers went in and separated the combatants, and disarmed the 

contending parties, and oversaw the holding of elections, and installed democratically elected governments, and then stayed 

around long enough for those governments to consolidate themselves. So places like Namibia, Mozambique, Liberia, Sierra Leone, 

El Salvador, East Timor, Bosnia, and Kosova are all at peace today 

because of the success in nation-building and because of the increased professionalization that has taken place through a decade 

of very intense experience in the field. 

What is absolutely remarkable is that, between 1993 and 2003, 

the number of wars in the world was cut in half, mostly civil wars. 

There were half as many still going in 2003 as there were in 1993. 

The number of people being killed went down even further. There 

were 130,000 people killed in 1993 as a result of conflicts. There 

were only 27,000 killed in 2003. What is even more remarkable is 

that these numbers have continued to go down since 2003 even despite the continued killing in Darfur and Iraq, and the reason that 

they have continued to go down is that, while the numbers in Iraq 

and Darfur are horrifying, even larger cuts in the level of conflict 

have been realized in sub-Saharan Africa where, incidentally, the 

United States is not doing any peacekeeping, and where the U.N. 

is doing all of the peacekeeping. 

The fact is people are not killing each other in the Congo today, 

and the Congo is nearly 10 times bigger than Iraq, and the lives 

being saved as the result of peacekeeping in sub-Saharan Africa is 

a much higher number than the lives being lost in the conflicts 

that are still going on. So this has turned out to be a cost-effective, 

genuine and generally successful enterprise; although, it certainly 

has its setbacks and its spectacular failures. 

The U.N. has limitations. It does not do invasions. If you are 

going to have to invade a country, you are going to have to go to 

a national coalition or to an alliance. The U.N. is not going to do 

it for you. The U.N. has never deployed more than about 20,000 

troops in a single country. If you need more than that, you will 

have to go to NATO or to the U.S. or to somebody else, but within 

those limitations, the U.N. is likely to be the most cost-effective option, as the GAO Report suggests. 

So it does not solve all of your problems. Peacekeeping does not 

stop genocide. Peacekeeping does not stop WMD proliferation. 

Peacekeeping does not stop aggression. Peacekeeping does not stop 

those kinds of things. It can prevent them from reoccurring, but it 

does not stop them. If you are insistent on stopping them, then you 

will have to go to some more muscular option, and that will probably require a nationally-led coalition, but in cases where the fighting has stopped and you do not want it to reoccur, U.N. peacekeeping is by far the most cost-effective option. 

[The prepared statement of Ambassador Dobbins follows:]
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Mr. DELAHUNT. Thank you, Ambassador. 

Senator Wirth. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE TIMOTHY E. WIRTH, 

PRESIDENT, UNITED NATIONS FOUNDATION 

Mr. WIRTH. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is always 

a delight to be with Ambassador Dobbins, with whom I would associate my remarks entirely. It is also noteworthy to hear the facts 

and figures that Ambassador Dobbins put on the table and that 

Mr. Christoff put on the table, and I would like to put another fact 

on the table, if I might, to start out. 

As we meet this morning, the United States has already spent 

more this week in Iraq than it will spend all year long on U.N. 

peacekeeping around the world, and it is only Wednesday. This is 

a relatively small amount of money given our obligations around 

the world, and it is important, it seems to me, to understand this 

context. 

Mr. Chairman, the U.N. works when the U.S. wants it to. The 

U.N. has always been a key element of U.S. foreign policy, and 

when the U.S. pays attention and pays its bills, the U.N. is both 

a bargain and an opportunity as outlined by two previous panelists 

this morning, and of special note, of course, is peacekeeping. Let 

me briefly elaborate. 

One constant of the U.S.-U.N. relationship has been consistently 

strong public support for the U.N. during its 60 years. We were, 

of course, the driving force behind its founding, and are its host 

and, I would argue, have been not only its greatest financial supporter, but also its greatest beneficiary. Opinion polls show that 

Americans value the U.N., see it as an important vehicle for sharing the burdens of American responsibilities around the world, and 

with characteristic skepticism of government, Americans want the 

U.N. to continue to reform and to renew itself. 

If this consistent public support for the U.N. is a familiar variable in the U.S.-U.N. relationship, the centrality of the U.N. to the 

U.S. global interests has only grown, and that is clear with all of 

the challenges that we face today not only with the peacekeeping 

operations described earlier, but with poverty alleviation and development especially in Africa; global disease from AIDS to the bird 

flu; climate change with its concomitant economic, political and environmental components; emerging humanitarian crises from refugee flows out of Iraq to natural disasters like the 2005 tsunami. 

The U.N. is central to all of these issues, as you know, Mr. Chairman, and, therefore, central to U.S. interests. 

Today’s panel outlines the successes and the challenges of peacekeeping which have been well-described by my colleagues. 

On burden-sharing, Mr. Christoff made that point very clearly. 

I would just add he says that if the United States were in Haiti, 

it would cost twice as much as the U.N. operation, but let us remember that the U.S. only pays 25 percent of the U.N. operations, 

so it is an 8-to-1 bargain, just to use your numbers alone, Mr. 

Christoff. It is exactly the burden-sharing that Americans want. 

Second, it is extremely cost-effective, and those numbers have 

been outlined by both Mr. Dobbins and by Mr. Christoff. 
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Third, peacekeeping is probably the most important laboratory 

for U.N. reform. Congressman Rohrabacher again reminded us of 

the importance of continuing U.N. reform. Congressmen, progress, 

significant progress, has been made, and further important recommendations have been made by the new Secretary General. 

These will require persistent diplomatic support from the U.S., and 

the U.S. new Permanent Representative, Zalmay Khalilzad, has, I 

will say, made an impressive start. 

I would like, Mr. Chairman, if I might, to put in the record at 

this point a number of very specific numbers and data about 

changes that have been made in the whole peacekeeping area and 

with the issues raised by both Congressman Rohrabacher and Mr. 

Groves and his comments earlier. These are data not only on very, 

very specific steps that have been made, very specific on tables 

from the State Department of their best analysis as to what has 

been done, but also in a noteworthy fashion of how the U.N. peacekeeping operations and the reforms made there have, in fact, become models for NATO, and what NATO is trying to do in terms 

of its deployment of forces and its determination of the responsibility of those forces. 

I think this data, Congressman Rohrabacher, will be very helpful 

in bringing you up to speed on a lot of the progress that has been 

made. I think you have met in the past with Jane Lute, who has 

this responsibility at the U.N., and she has made this set of policies, you know, very, very strong, and I think they are very impressive, and we are proud of her as an American citizen who is deeply 

engaged in helping the U.N. to reach the highest standards of behavior. It is an impressive record. 

Fourth, if, as Ambassador Dobbins pointed out, peacekeeping becomes a reminder of how important our global reengagement is and 

our quest to do that; and, fifth, how important it is that we be 

planning for the future. We are not going to have fewer peacekeeping missions, as Ambassador Dobbins pointed out; we are 

going to have more of them, and some of the steps that he outlined 

that have been taken are extremely important. 

I would hope, as well, that this committee will be asking the 

State Department and the Department of Defense about their 

plans for the future. You know, what do they anticipate are going 

to be the demands in the future? What does that require of the 

United States in terms of institutional arrangements, in terms of 

different kinds of cooperative arrangements with the U.N. and 

other international forces, and in terms of budget responsibilities? 

Finally, of course, the biggest issue here is probably going to be 

our responsibilities in Iraq. We can anticipate that there is going 

to be a phase-out at some point of United States presence in Iraq 

from one level or another. That is going to leave a vacuum of kinds. 

Who is going to fill that vacuum? I think it is fair to say that we 

can anticipate that some, if not a great deal, of that vacuum is 

going to be filled by the United Nations. We are going to be asking 

the United Nations to do this, and we had better start preparing 

for that, understanding what has to be done. Again, it seems to me 

that this would be an important opportunity for this committee and 

for the Congress, using your oversight capability, to make sure that 

this planning has begun. 
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As a final note, if I might, Mr. Chairman, I have taken the liberty of adding a chart over here to the right about the debt of the 

United States to the U.N. Our U.S. arrears to the U.N. will exceed 

more than $1 billion as we sit here today. The question is where 

is this $1 billion owed, and how did we get from there to here? 

We have sponsored and supported every peacekeeping operation: 

Haiti, the Congo, Lebanon, Liberia, Kosova. The list goes on. All of 

the operations we have supported in the Security Council and 

every one of them was deemed by different U.S. administrations, 

but in agreement, that they were in the U.S. national interest. We 

could have vetoed any one of them, but we did not. Richard 

Holbrooke, John Negroponte, Jack Danforth, and John Bolton all 

voted ‘‘yes’’ when these operations came before the Security Council, but the United States has refused to pay the resulting bills, and 

slowly but surely the shortfalls have grown into a deficit approaching $1 billion. 

This deficit for the U.N. is huge; while for the United States, it 

is less than what we spend in 2 days in Iraq. For the U.N., it is 

20 percent of the U.N.’s total peacekeeping budget for the 2008 

year, and it is 13 percent of the U.N.’s total central budget. This 

is a big number. 

Where will this $1 billion come from? The U.N. does not have a 

bank it can go to for financing. Instead, the Secretary General has 

to go to other member states and ask them to pony up. The methodology for getting others to pay is simple. The U.N. just does not 

pay those who have agreed to send their own troops and to ship 

their own equipment in support of new peacekeeping missions that 

we have voted for. Others who are sending their troops and who 

are sending their equipment are left holding unpaid invoices. 

Attached to my testimony is a full list of these, Mr. Chairman, 

in great detail, where, mission by mission and country by country, 

the debts are owed, and this chart demonstrates this as well. It is 

a pretty startling list. India and Pakistan, close friends of the 

United States and two of the most reliable providers of U.N. peacekeeping help, are together owed more than $107 million because 

the U.S. does not pay its bills. Bangladesh, one of the poorest countries in the world, is owed $77 million because the United States 

is the U.N.’s biggest debtor. Nigeria, the most dependable and farreaching force for stability in Africa, is owed almost $4 million. 

Brazil is owed $7 million for peacekeeping efforts in Haiti, 90 miles 

off our coast; Jordan, $30 million; Kenya, $55 million. 

Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that this is an embarrassing and 

really unacceptable situation. Some of the poorest countries in the 

world, some of our closest allies and some of the world’s most dependable global citizens are owed millions and millions of dollars 

because the United States votes for these important peacekeeping 

missions but will not pay its share. This is wrong, Mr. Chairman, 

and the Congress should move rapidly to help to reverse this situation. Paying what it owes will make a significant contribution to 

U.S. reengagement in the world, will reinforce the basic support of 

the American people, and will provide additional leverage for continuing reform at the U.N. Great nations keep their word, and 

great nations pay their bills. 
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Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I look forward to answering any questions that you may have. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Wirth follows:]
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Mr. DELAHUNT. Yes. Thank you, Senator, and I will turn shortly 

to the ranking member because, since there are only two of us on 

this panel, we will have an opportunity, hopefully, to explore for 

some time the issues that you have addressed. 

Senator Wirth, when the United States votes at the U.N. Security Council, in the course of that vote, is it an up-or-down vote, 

or is there a letter of reservations—I am making that term up—

that would somehow condition the payment for that particular 

peacekeeping deployment? 

Mr. WIRTH. Well, both record votes and nonrecord votes are here, 

but there is no way for the U.S., like, say, this administration has 

done with various bills, to say, ‘‘Well, we are for that bill, but we 

are only for a piece of that.’’

Mr. DELAHUNT. There is no signing letters then? 

Mr. WIRTH. There is no signing of a letter. You either say ‘‘yes’’ 

or ‘‘no’’——

Mr. DELAHUNT. Or no. 

Mr. WIRTH [continuing]. In all of these, you know, not only when 

the vote comes up, but because of who we are and as one of the 

permanent five members—you know, we design these peacekeeping 

missions with great detail ahead of time, and those are agreed to 

by the P5, the so-called ‘‘Permanent Five,’’ because those five have 

veto power on the Security Council. You do not want one of them—

you do not want to bring something up and then suddenly have 

somebody raise their hand and veto it. So proposed peacekeeping 

missions go through, effectively, two filters, one with the P5 to 

make sure everybody is on board, and then you go to the other 10 

members of the Security Council in a public vote. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. In all of the—and I know I am just simply, I 

think, repeating what you earlier stated. 

The United States has voted for every single peacekeeping deployment in the past—well, since the existence—let me rephrase 

the question. 

Has there been a peacekeeping deployment that the United 

States has voted against in the history of the United Nations? 

Mr. WIRTH. By the structure of the United Nations Security 

Council, it cannot be. The U.S. has veto power. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. But I think it is really important to be clear 

about that. 

Mr. WIRTH. If the U.S. says no, it does not happen. It is not 

like——

Mr. DELAHUNT. So, with all of the peacekeeping forces that are 

deployed all over the globe, the United States has supported them 

unqualifiedly? 

Ambassador Dobbins. 

Mr. WIRTH. Ambassador Dobbins might refer to qualifications. 

We might say, you know, we are supportive of that, and we are 

worried about what may happen. It will be like anything else. 

There will be concerns and discussions surrounding it, but we have 

the option of voting ‘‘yes’’ or ‘‘no.’’

Mr. DELAHUNT. Ambassador. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. Well, I would like to say that the reason 

that the U.N. is cost-effective is that the mandatory assessment 

system guarantees that, of any peacekeeping mission the U.S. 
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wants and the Security Council authorizes, other countries will pay 

75 percent of it, whether they want to or not. Even if they do not 

like it, they are going to pay 75 percent of it if we vote for it, and 

if we do not like it, it is not going to happen. That is how the system works. It guarantees that, of anything we want, they will pay 

75 percent or 76 percent—74 percent. Sorry. They will pay 74 percent whether they want to or not and nothing will happen if we do 

not want. That is a pretty good system. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Groves, earlier you talked about the concept 

of a so-called SOFA, a Status of Forces Agreement. It is my understanding—and correct me, and any member of the panel feel free 

to speak up—that we are having difficulty at this point in time—

and I have not thought about a SOFA, but that we are having difficulty in terms of securing, maybe because of the fact that we owe 

many of our allies the sums that were referenced by Senator 

Wirth—we are having difficulty finding nations that are willing to 

contribute troops to deployment. Am I wrong on that? 

Mr. GROVES. I am not sure how much difficulty we are having 

in staffing the U.N. missions themselves, but even if we were, you 

have to analyze where your priorities are. Is your priority the continuity of U.N. peacekeeping operations, or is your priority the protection of the actual people in the countries where these peacekeepers are sent? You know, it cannot be one or the other, but it 

should be both. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Well, let me run through one. 

In Lebanon, for example, if you were the Permanent Representative of the United States to the U.N., would you have voted against 

the peacekeeping operation that currently exists on the border between Israel and Lebanon? 

Mr. GROVES. Are you nominating me for that position? 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I might, if the answer is a good one. 

Mr. GROVES. This dovetails into the last couple of responses. The 

United States supports and votes for peacekeeping missions all 

around the world. That is the politics of the United Nations. The 

United States can’t even abstain; I doubt very much, politically, 

that they could even abstain from a mission to Lebanon. So of 

course we are going to vote for it, but we have skin in that game. 

We vote for it, and we’ll pay what is due, which is our 25 percent, 

which is what we agreed to with the U.N. several years ago under 

Helms-Biden. 

Others on the Security Council don’t have skin in the game. It 

doesn’t cost them to vote for one of these peacekeeping missions. 

They pay 1 percent or less than the peacekeeping budget. So sure, 

I would vote for the peacekeeping force in Lebanon. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. And in Haiti? 

Mr. GROVES. And in Haiti. Haiti is in our back yard. It is much 

more within our national interest to vote for those missions, but 

that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t stop and try to have peacekeepers 

who have committed crimes be prosecuted in their countries once 

they are repatriated. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. And it would appear that there will be action 

in—well, the potential, the possibility of a significant increase in 

terms of the number of peacekeepers to Darfur, would you veto 

that particular increase? 
60

Mr. GROVES. Again, you’re getting into deeper questions of what 

is and is not a vital national interest of the United States. I think 

you will get a lot of debate in this room and in this building. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Do you think the potential to stop an ongoing 

genocide is in the vital interest of the United States? 

Mr. GROVES. My personal opinion is yes. I believe the U.S. 

should use its power and authority as best it can to stop genocide 

in a place like Sudan. Whether that takes a U.S. troop commitment 

is beyond the scope of the question. You’d have to really, really look 

into it to see whether that is viable or not, but an AU mission—

by the way, this is an AU mission, not a U.N. mission, there is no 

really impending possibility of this becoming a U.N. mission. I 

know people talk a lot about this being a U.N. mission, but the alBashir government isn’t exactly saying, ‘‘We will allow a U.N. mission to come in.’’

The AU missions that are there, they are not exactly a force multiplier as it is. Private security companies provide all the logistics, 

supply and even security for the AU missions that are in The 

Sudan right now. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Supported or funded by whom? 

Mr. GROVES. I don’t know who pays the private contractors’ bills, 

whether that comes out of the U.N. general funds. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Ambassador Dobbins, are you——

Sorry, I didn’t mean to shut you off. 

Mr. GROVES. Well, if we are going to move this discussion to 

Darfur and The Sudan, we need to talk about the peacekeeping operations there, where there is no peace yet; there is no peace in 

Darfur to be kept. Whether or not U.N. or an AU peacekeeping 

force is a viable solution to what’s going on there, I think remains 

to be seen. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I think it is a high-risk effort, but I guess what 

I’m looking for are, what options are there, if we consider genocide 

or the prevention of genocide to be in the vital interest of the 

United States? Because we do claim a certain moral authority that 

we value, and it is important, I think, that we demonstrate that 

to the rest of the world. 

What options are there? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, one of the options to get to the bottom of your 

question would be intervention by peacekeeping forces, U.N., AU, 

but I think we’re a long way down the road from that. If we’re actually considering that, it would be a preventative measure; there 

are people that talk about U.S. military intervention and options, 

no-fly zones, things of that nature. But I think at the end of the 

day, if you keep peace there and you stop the genocide, then peacekeeping forces are one option that is possible to be used. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Ambassador Dobbins. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. Yes, I agree mostly with what Mr. Groves 

said. 

First of all, it takes a peace enforcement action to stop an ongoing conflict when the sides aren’t ready to stop. And peace enforcement actions are much more demanding than peacekeeping. They 

require a forced entry or at least a threat of a forced entry, and 

the U.N. doesn’t do that, nor does the AU, so that would have to 

be NATO or the U.S. or some other nationally-led coalition to do 
61

that. They are also more expensive. Our studies indicate that a 

peace enforcement operation in the same society as a peacekeeping 

operation will be ten times more expensive. It will require ten 

times more men and ten times more money to do. 

So, clearly, the cost-effective option would be to wait until the 

conflict winds down and then put a peacekeeping operation in so 

it doesn’t wind up again, but if you’re not prepared to wait, then 

you have to go to the higher option, and that’s why we’ve had this 

continued rather unsatisfactory debate about Darfur, because nobody is prepared to go to the higher option. We know what it would 

take, and nobody is prepared to go to the higher option, so we’re 

hoping a combination of economic sanctions and political pressures 

and other instruments can allow the less expensive option to become realistic. That’s where we are. 

Now, in terms of what force you would use if the less expensive 

option became realistic, that is, if there was a peace to keep, the 

difference between the AU and the U.N. basically are twofold: First 

of all, the AU is less experienced than the U.N., substantially less 

experienced and has virtually no headquarters’ capability to control 

forces. 

Secondly, it has no capacity to actually pay for its own operations. So AU operations are paid for essentially by the Europeans 

and the United States. The AU operation in Darfur is funded by 

the United States and the European Union, so we pay about 50 

percent of the cost of that operation. If it was a U.N. operation, we 

would only pay 25——

Mr. DELAHUNT. 25 percent. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. 25 percent of the cost, and you’d have a 

more professional operation. It wouldn’t be as good as NATO, but 

it would be ten times cheaper than NATO——

Mr. DELAHUNT. You’re doing a cost-benefit analysis. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. Yes. So, clearly, the U.N. is the preferable 

option for Darfur. Why is the AU there? Because the Government 

of The Sudan wants the AU there. Why do they want the AU 

there? Because it is less exigent, less capable, and it is less likely 

to compel them to comply. So it is there for all the wrong reasons. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Senator Wirth? 

Mr. WIRTH. To stick on Darfur for 1 second, one final note. I 

think, or at least I hope, that we are going to see the U.N. more 

deeply involved for the following reason: Slowly but surely, the parties are coming to understand that there is no military solution to 

what’s going on in Darfur. So that changes the nature of their willingness to sit down and talk. That then changes the nature of the 

role of the U.N. and the role of negotiators and the role of peacekeepers. If that happens, then what the U.N. does best has the opportunity to move in and, I think, be as effective as we have seen 

it be elsewhere. If we see it at this higher level of conflict, as Ambassador Dobbins points out, it remains a much iffier and nasty situation. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I’m sure you can appreciate the conundrum that 

that presents to the administration and to Members of Congress, 

because while we have the benefit of, I think, a very thoughtful 

analysis, we’ve heard on the ground, there is a genocide occurring, 

which implicates, I believe, everything that we’re about. Now, I’m 
62

not advocating military intervention, but what will history say? 

Not to be dramatic, but how many tens of thousands, how many 

hundreds of thousands are going to suffer, possibly die, while we 

work our way through? 

I mean, you know, to that point where intervention is feasible as 

opposed to, you know, where peacekeeping is feasible, as opposed 

to peace enforcement. You know, these are difficult issues. 

I’m going to yield to my friend, the gentleman from California, 

and excuse myself for a minute. 

Go ahead. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Where to begin? Again, let me know, but I believe a lot of the 

analysis we’re getting here in terms of using United Nations troops 

are based on the concept, the cost-analysis, that we have equal 

value, that the value of those troops is equal to Americans, which 

almost always is not the case. Where we’ve already seen over, and 

over, and over again, examples of U.N. troops abusing their authority and not even where they are disciplined by the United Nations, 

which Mr. Groves is suggesting might be a solution to have some 

control over this, but they are not even prosecuted by their own 

countries when they go home. 

I mean, can anyone here tell me the number of U.N. troops that 

have been prosecuted for sexual abuse during their mission in Africa? How many of those African troops were prosecuted by their 

own countries? 

Zero. 

Mr. WIRTH. Mr. Chairman, I would be very happy to provide to 

you for the record the data that’s come from U.N. peacekeeping operations, the Office of U.N. Peacekeeping Operations on the sexual 

harassment and abuse allegations. Also the State Department 

numbers. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Do you have numbers for people who were 

prosecuted? 

Mr. WIRTH. Absolutely. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. I would like to hear them. Every time I’ve inquired, I haven’t gotten anything back. What are those figures? 

Mr. WIRTH. In the Democratic Republic of Congo, for example, 

eight soldiers dismissed and barred from future peacekeeping operations, one of these soldiers awaiting criminal prosecution; four 

military personnel awaiting; one civilian awaiting prosecution. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Awaiting, awaiting. The operative word there 

is awaiting. 

Mr. WIRTH. This is an operation, Congressman, that was, as we 

say, set up in part in response to pressures from the Congress and 

from elsewhere to really redo this, and this is what the U.N. has 

done, is aggressively redo the whole operation. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. But so far, you haven’t noted that one person’s been prosecuted. ‘‘Is awaiting prosecution’’? Awaiting prosecution in a Third World country means nothing. They have not acted. 

Mr. Groves, am I wrong in this? Are these countries stepping up 

and actually disciplining their troops when we appoint this at 

home? 
63

Mr. GROVES. The information that’s publicly available is, no, 

there haven’t been. I can only recall reading one article about perhaps a handful of Moroccans who may have been charged, but I 

don’t know if that was for sexual exploitation. I’m not sure. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Let’s note that what we’re talking about here 

when we rely on the United Nations are quite often countries, not 

only the troops are not of equal value, but the systems that they 

operate in are far different than ours. When they go home, it is a 

different type of situation to be held accountable in those countries. 

There is, and let me note for the record, this is not a situation 

again where you have an option of sending U.S. troops or U.N. 

troops. We have a model of a multilateral activity that went on in 

the genocide that was taking place in the Balkans. 

Mr. WIRTH. If I might——

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Let me finish my point, and then I will 

happy to let you just say a little something, too. 

In the Balkans, we ended up with troops in Croatia. The Croatians were under severe attack from the Serbians. The Serbians 

came in with their heavy tanks, and they managed at the end of 

the Tito era to get all the heavy equipment in the military and 

used it in an offensive way against the rest of the people who were 

part of Yugoslavia, trying to subjugate them. 

In Croatia, what did we do? We trained the Croatian army. That 

option is not even on the table here. You can help people in their 

country by arming them and training them so they can defend 

themselves. And it helped in Croatia. It wasn’t a U.N. operation. 

It was a United States’ covert operation, I might add. We went in 

and trained the Croatians, and that turned the tide. 

What happened when we relied on a multilateral force to do it 

in that same area? We still have troops today in Kosovo and Bosnia, because we were, instead of acting forcefully with a third option—rather than saying bringing in huge numbers of United 

States troops that worked. 

In several African countries, there was mass slaughter going on. 

They called mercenaries to come in, and with a couple hundred 

mercenaries were able to stop bloodshed that thousands of U.S. 

troops couldn’t stop. 

Let’s note, in Rwanda and Bosnia, where you had the presence 

of U.N. troops. And what happened during that time? That 

shouldn’t be ignored here. So what if you send U.N. troops in someplace, and they are incapable, they are either not trained or the 

politics of their home country does not enable them to do a job that 

makes any difference? In Rwanda, it has been estimated up to a 

million people were slaughtered while U.N. troops were present. 

In Bosnia, we know of tens of thousands of people slaughtered 

while U.N. troops were present. In one instance alone, there were 

8,000 civilians slaughtered while Dutch troops stood by and 

watched. 

Now, is that the type of thing we should be relying on? We can—

no, I think that that’s an example of what happens when you depend on having a political multinational organization, depending 

on that rather than trying to decide what is in the interest of the 

United States and what is not, and going out and doing that, even 

if it is unilaterally. 
64

Mr. DELAHUNT. I would ask my friend to yield for a moment. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. One more point, and then Senator Wirth 

would like to mention something as well. 

Here is a question to the panel: You say we owe the U.N. all this money, almost $1 billion. I believe that’s based on the fact that we 

have put a cap here in Congress on the percentage of U.N. costs 

that we are going to cover as American taxpayers. I think 25 percent is a very decent contribution for the people of the United 

States to have to cover the bills of the United Nations. 

I believe the debt that you’re talking about is what has been assessed to us over that 25 percent cap that Congress, when it was 

a Democratic Congress I might add, put that cap on our limit to 

what we’re going to pay for in terms of U.N. costs. Is anyone on 

the panel suggesting that we should be paying a much higher percentage? And if so, what is the percentage of U.N. operations that 

we should be willing to pay? And why is it 25 percent, one-fourth 

of all the expenses, not our fair share? 

Mr. WIRTH. If I might? 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Please. 

Mr. WIRTH. First of all, on your initial question, I said, for the 

record, I’d be happy to give you data. Pakistan has sentenced 

peacekeepers to a year in jail. Nigeria withdrew its entire force 

from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Pakistan has sent a 

force in, including an examination for DNA samples. Nepal has 

three troops in jail and barred others from participating in future 

U.N. operations. Tunisia is prosecuting one of two soldiers that 

were withdrawn from the military. India has repatriated troops 

and dismissed one from the military. 

These are the activities that have occurred this year in this data, 

and I will give you the full amount of data, Congressman. 

[NOTE: The information referred is not reprinted here but is 

available in committee records.] 

Mr. WIRTH. On the issue of the debt——

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much. 

Mr. WIRTH. The debt that occurs, very, very little of it is the difference between the agreed U.S. share to the U.N. and what the 

Congress has set. To remind us, under the Helms-Biden compromise of some years ago, the U.S. agreed to pay 26 to 27 percent 

of the peacekeeping operations. Congress said, ‘‘Oh, we don’t think 

that’s right.’’ Even though its administration negotiated it, Congress said, ‘‘We only want to pay 25 percent.’’

Mr. ROHRABACHER. What percentage do you think would be——

Mr. WIRTH. Let me just—agreed, say either 25, 26 or 27, none 

of that relates to this or very little of that relates to that debt. Of 

the debt, $450 million is debt because of congressional objections 

to missions that the U.S. voted for, but the Congress said, ‘‘Hey, 

we don’t think those are very good ideas,’’ so the Congress didn’t 

fund them. Sierra Leone is a good example. That’s $450 million, of 

the Congress saying, even though the government agreed with the 

Security Council that this is what we are going to do and said we 

have those obligations, the Congress said unilaterally, ‘‘We’re not 

going to pay that.’’ This wasn’t 25 or 16; this was zero. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. We’re saying, we’re not going to pay that 25 

percent; we’re not going to pay anything. 
65

Mr. WIRTH. Sure.

Mr. DELAHUNT. Would the gentleman yield? 

I would like to follow up with Sierra Leone. What you’re informing or stating then is that it was congressional action that withheld 

the payment to the deployment in Sierra Leone. 

Mr. WIRTH. That’s correct. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. What was happening in Sierra Leone, why did 

the United States vote in the U.N. Security Council? 

Mr. WIRTH. Well, it was massive chaos; you will remember all of 

the pictures of people getting their hands and arms cut off. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Right, I have this horrible memory—excuse me, 

Senator, I have a horrible memory of seven or eight children sitting 

exactly where you are with their arms cut off, but this Congress 

decided that we should withhold funds for the support of that particular deployment. Is that accurate? I don’t want to misstate, because I want to talk about facts without just making statements. 

Mr. WIRTH. That is accurate. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Thank you. 

Mr. WIRTH. And it was a former Member of Congress, no longer 

here, chaired a very important Appropriations subcommittee and 

said, we’re not going to let that money go through. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Let us note that children get their arms cut 

off and children are slaughtered everyday. The U.N. troops that 

permitted tens of thousands of children to be slaughtered in Rwanda, the troops were right there, and they were slaughtered anyway. 

The question is, when we’re willing to commit money, it should 

be spent in a way that’s effective, and I don’t know if we pulled 

away. 

Did we help finance the Rwanda operation? 

Mr. WIRTH. Excuse me? 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Did we withdraw our funding from the 

Rwanda operation? Did we? Or maybe we should have. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. We blocked the peacekeeping. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. They were sitting there permitting thousands 

of people to be slaughtered, hundreds of thousands. 

Mr. WIRTH. Let’s make sure we understand what happened in 

Rwanda. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Ambassador? 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I think I think we should extend to the Senator 

an opportunity to finish his response to your question regarding 

Rwanda without interruption. 

Mr. WIRTH. We were finishing a previous question on the debt; 

Congressman Rohrabacher asked where the debt came from. 

As I said, $450 million came from Congress said it didn’t want 

to fund these items; $119 million came from a shortfall last year. 

State didn’t request the amount of money that the U.S. agreed to 

pay, and the Congress didn’t fund it. All right, so we dropped $119 

million more into debt. 

This year, our share of peacekeeping is 26 percent; that’s what 

we agreed to in Helms-Biden. Senator Helms and Senator Biden, 

as you remember, were the leaders of that negotiation. Our share of the 2008 peacekeeping budget is $1.8 billion. OMB 

requested, even though State had asked for the amount, OMB in 

its mark provided only $1.1 billion. As the chairman pointed out 
66

earlier, the House Appropriations Committee has upped that by 

$200 million. So we have available $1.3 billion for a $1.8 billion 

commitment. That is another shortfall of $500 million. 

So we have a backlog of $450 million, which we said we’re not going to pay that. We have $119 million from last year; that’s a 

shortfall. And we have a $500 million that, unless this year the 

Congress acts to do more than the $200 million it did, we will have 

another half billion. So we are well over $1 billion in debt. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. During that same time period, how much 

have we spent on U.N. and on peacekeeping operations, et cetera? 

How much have we totally given then? 

Mr. WIRTH. How much did we spend on peacekeeping last 

year——

Mr. ROHRABACHER. No, what did we give to the United Nations 

in total, including the peacekeeping operations. 

Mr. WIRTH. Including peacekeeping operations, overall 25 percent of our budget was—let me, just a second, I will give you that 

number. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Okay. 

Mr. WIRTH. Do you want me to respond to Rwanda? 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. While you’re getting that let me note again 

the idea that the options are sending U.S. troops or going with an 

AU operation is not the only alternative. 

In Afghanistan, this is something I paid particular attention to 

in the 1990s when others were not. There was a situation that 

arose that the Taliban, during their time, when taking over that 

country, became very vulnerable. They had lost a major battle in 

Mazari Sharif, and it was an interesting battle because there were 

a lot of people who lost their lives, but they had lost—a huge number of their people was captured. The Taliban main forces were 

captured along with their equipment. And the road was open to basically retaking Kabul and bringing a moderate government to Afghanistan. 

At that point, our U.N. Ambassador, Bill Richardson, who is now 

running for President, went to Mazari Sharif and negotiated with 

who would then become afterwards in the distant future the leaders of the Northern Alliance and said, ‘‘No, no, no, this is not the 

time to be active militarily; this is the time to negotiate. We’re 

going to have an arms embargo, and then we’re going to have a negotiated settlement here.’’ And with the U.N.’s support, there was 

an arms embargo, which was totally violated by Pakistan and 

Saudi Arabia, which dramatically reinforced the Taliban immediately. And the arms embargo, however, was enforced against the 

Northern Alliance. 

Now, all of that lead to what? It led to 9/11. It led to the type 

of, what we call, radical Islamic dictatorship that encompassed Afghanistan prior to 9/11. Yes, we relied on that type of approach. 

Frankly, during that time period, I was advocating that we arm 

those people who were opposing the Taliban rather than going 

through a multilateral approach. Frankly, that would have solved 

a lot of problems. People never looked at that third option, which 

is, rather than having U.S. troops come in or just going with a multilateral, either NATO or United Nations, that we should help people in the local areas defend themselves. Had we done that in per-
67

haps Rwanda or had we done that in Bosnia, those innocent people 

who were totally unarmed in the face of the Serbs and the other 

type of ethnic problems that were going on in Africa may not have 

been as bloody, and there may not have been young kids with their 

arms cut off, as you are saying. 

Mr. Ambassador, do you have another point you want to make? 

Ambassador DOBBINS. On the Afghan thing, I think you were 

probably right back there in the mid-1990s. 

On the other hand, I don’t think it is quite fair to blame American policy in that regard on the United Nations. The United Nations were about the only people in world that continued to recognize the Northern Alliance. The U.N. recognized a Northern Alliance as the Government of Afghanistan and never recognized the 

Taliban. The U.S. Government didn’t recognize a Northern Alliance; only the U.N. did. So I don’t think——

Mr. ROHRABACHER. By the way——

Ambassador DOBBINS. You can blame the Clinton administration. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. I was totally fighting that policy. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I’m glad my ranking member was supporting the 

United Nations in that particular case; it’s refreshing to hear that. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. I think, on the issue of how you ensure 

that troop-contributing countries adequately discipline their participants, I think that’s a difficult issue, and I think the solution 

offered by Mr. Groves is not a bad one, although I wouldn’t condition my payment of arrears on it. 

I would note that the U.N. system that is depending upon contributing countries to discipline their own people is exactly the 

same system the United States uses in putting together a coalition 

in Iraq. For instance, we don’t try to punish people from other coalition countries, nor do they have any commitment to us to punish 

them. The fact is, they are on their own. We’ve had tens of thousands of coalition troops in Iraq. I don’t know of any who have been 

punished, although I’m sure there were some abuses. 

What’s even more interesting is, until recently, we had no way 

of punishing our own contractors. We had 40,000 contractors in 

Iraq working for the United States Government, and there was no 

way of punishing them for abuses. And there were some serious 

abuses, including murder. And the Congress did correct that recently by putting in a provision which allowed them to be punished. But so far, none of them have, as far as I know. This is a 

problem that——

Mr. DELAHUNT. You mean, we’re waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting? 

Ambassador DOBBINS. Not just the U.N.; it is a real problem, and 

the solution you suggest is a reasonable one, although, again, I 

wouldn’t condition my payments to the U.N. on it, but I would 

think it is a reasonable solution to push. 

You’re right that, with a U.N. force, you don’t get the same quality as a U.S. force. They are paid less and are less well-equipped. 

And that’s one of the reasons why they are cost-effective, because 

there are many missions for which a less well-equipped person is 

as good as a well-equipped person. 

For instance, the U.N. is currently conducting a mission in Haiti. 

I think it is reasonable to say they are conducting it just as well 
68

as we conducted it when we did it 10 years ago. And we did it at 

much higher cost, and they are doing it more cheaply, as far as I 

can see just as successfully because it is a mission that doesn’t require——

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Ambassador, let me ask you, as an example, would it not be cheaper for us to identify some decent people 

in Haiti, who are basically more honest than the other people or 

more or less gangsteristic than the other people, and just support 

them, as we did in Croatia, where we went in and trained a military force, just pick a side and basically go in and then let them 

go—they are now—we arm them and let people we identify as 

being decent and honest people control the situation rather than 

bringing in a multilateral force or even our own troops and handling it that way? 

Ambassador DOBBINS. I think that’s a perfectly valid option in 

many situations. When you have a civil war, you have essentially 

three choices: You can flood the place with foreign forces and suppress the war. At the other end of the extreme, you can stand aside 

and let them fight it out. In the middle, you pick a side and help 

it win. And there are occasions where that’s the approach that 

most closely meets our national needs. There are other cases, however, in which the side that’s going to win isn’t the side you want 

to win. There are cases in which the civil war will probably go on 

indefinitely because the sides are evenly matched, and it is not 

likely that one or the other is going to win any time soon. 

In the case of Haiti, we are doing what you suggested. That is, 

we are trying to build up a capacity of the Haitian Government to 

police its own society. But we, the international community, United 

Nations, are also providing interim security while they create that 

capacity. I think when you do have to choose among those options, 

in many cases, what you are advocating is the correct option. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Wirth, thank you for the back and forth. 

Mr. Ambassador, I appreciate all of your words, thank you. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I noted that my friend referenced the fact that 

we’ve been in the Balkans now for some time. Maybe one of you 

can help me; how long have we been in Korea? Are we still in 

Korea, Senator? 

Mr. WIRTH. I was then 6 years old in camp when they, in June 

1950, when the North Koreans invaded——

Mr. DELAHUNT. You were only 6, Senator? 

Mr. WIRTH. I remember it very clearly. 

Mr. ROHRABACHER. The first U.N. peacekeeping mission. 

Mr. WIRTH. That was a long time ago. I am told that there are 

some now thinking we are looking forward to a Korea-length stay 

in Iraq. My guess is that we will have learned a lot from that experience, and as I was suggesting earlier, one of the interesting 

things would be how the transition gets made, and what are the 

expectations made of the international community, and what planning is going on on that front. 

I think that’s a very important question for this committee and 

for this Congress to begin, what’s the thinking going on out there 

to push that? You know, I think that we didn’t do enough of this 
69

thinking 5 or 6 years ago for our last major incursion. And let’s 

learn from that lesson, so it is not as if we are starting all over 

again. It is gratuitous advice from a former member, but you are 

in a perfect position to begin that process of thinking or helping, 

probably, a lot of people in the administration who want to do it 

and may not be allowed to do it. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. We’re actually out of Bosnia. We turned 

that mission over to the European Union 2 years ago, and we don’t 

pay anything of their costs. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Senator, taking advantage of your experience, 

both as a Member of the House and having served in the United 

States Senate, I’d welcome comments from any member of the 

panel, but we have these kind of hearings, and as my friend, the 

ranking member, raises different issues, it’s all retrospectively. 

Since this committee has jurisdiction of international organizations with obviously a special interest in the United Nations, I 

think we all agree that it is in our national interest to make the 

U.N. more effective. There are clearly some things that the United 

Nations cannot do. There are limitations. 

Ambassador Dobbins talks about the U.N. never having fielded 

a deployment in excess of 20,000. You know, I don’t blame the 

United Nations for what occurred in Rwanda. To a large degree, I 

blame the Clinton administration for not recognizing that there 

was a genocide underway that resulted in the deaths of hundreds 

of thousands of people. I’ve heard the former Secretary of State, 

Madeleine Albright, indicate that as she looks back on what is a 

distinguished career, what causes her the most pain and anguish 

is not acting more forcefully, and not recognizing that in terms of 

Rwanda. 

It is so easy to sit here and criticize the United Nations as if we 

are not part and parcel of the United Nations; that we serve on the 

Security Council and that we have veto power, we indicated earlier. 

And I agree with what Mr. Groves said, there are ways to do it, 

but it is a multilateral organization. And it is as if the U.S. House 

of Representatives in many respects is multilateral, in terms of different viewpoints, different perspectives, obviously two different 

parties, and it does take time to get things done and to move an 

agenda forward. 

I think none of us can suggest or believe it is easier in a global 

institution that represents some 190 different countries. But I digress for a moment. I wonder if you would concur with this thought 

that has been ruminating around my mind as we’ve sat here; I 

think it would be worthwhile to have the Ambassador, the American Ambassador to the United Nations, to come before this particular subcommittee when it is anticipated that there will be a request for a peacekeeping resolution so that we can discuss it prior. 

I do fault the United Nations and I fault our own executive 

branch, both Republican and Democratic, for not implicating the 

first branch of government, at least on a consultative basis. 

We come here. We have a single hearing, and that’s the end of 

it. And it is usually to inform us what is happening, because while 

we have significant philosophical differences about the role of the 

United Nations—and we are now joined by the gentleman from 

New Jersey, Mr. Payne; I will recognize him in a moment. I would 
70

like the Ambassador to come forward and talk about Darfur and 

what is happening in the United Nations and what we are prepared to do, and if we do have conditions, so that at a later date, 

you know, the ranking member will be fully informed and know 

there has been consultation with Congress and is totally aware of 

the cost so that we don’t find ourselves in this, I think, embarrassing situation, where the United States, a great power, to many 

in the world, we appear to be a deadbeat despite getting our way 

most of the time. 

I mean, what I’m suggesting, I think, it is different—I think it 

would be a different approach, and does it make any sense? Anybody on the panel, Senator, because——

Mr. WIRTH. You have an advantage here of being able to look 

over the horizon and have anybody in and not have people pinned 

down to that being a policy. You can get people to talk aloud together about this and make an interesting record, and that’s a tremendous advantage. 

Think about Iraq for a minute. As I said earlier, I know as sure 

as can be that there’s going to be a request related to Iraq peacekeeping in some fashion, and the U.N. is going to be invited and 

asked to fill the vacuum. But the U.S. can’t say that right now. The 

U.S. administration can’t say that publicly, directly. The U.N. isn’t 

going to say that right now because it doesn’t want to act as if it 

is asking for the engagement, but you all can ask those questions 

now and begin to define that turf. I think that would be a very 

helpful thing to do. That’s a real oversight kind of responsibility. 

What do we anticipate? What will it cost us? 

Now, related to that, if I might, is the last remark Ambassador 

Dobbins made in his testimony about how we are beginning to prepare for other kinds of humanitarian peacekeeping operations. How 

is the DoD doing that? How is the State Department doing that? 

My belief is that has to be done in a more systematic way. As the 

Ambassador pointed out, this administration’s been better than the 

last administration about this, but what else ought to be done, and 

what other kinds of architecture ought to be set up? What other 

kinds of budget capabilities ought to be set up? What other command operations ought to be put together in the future? Those are 

items that you all can help to cobble together, ask for reports. You 

know what it is like; you ask for a report from the DoD and from 

the State Department, and they respond. If they don’t, you say, 

what are you thinking about this? It is a very helpful device, and 

you can play, I think, a very, very constructive role. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Ambassador Dobbins? 

Ambassador DOBBINS. When I was still in government, the State 

Department had committed to come up proactively and consult 

with the Congress before voting for any peacekeeping operation. 

And this was normally done at the staff level, but they came up, 

and they briefed staffs of the Appropriation and authorizing committees of both Houses before any anticipated vote. And this was 

part of a deal that was worked out in the mid-1990s as a number 

of missions increased and Congress got increasingly upset about 

having to pay for missions they didn’t vote for. And I don’t see any 

reason why that shouldn’t be reinstituted. It worked perfectly well. 

There are occasions when this comes up suddenly, and you vote 
71

very quickly. But those are more the exception than the rule, and 

I think this worked rather well. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I do believe that, sitting here today, I think that 

we could reach some sort of consensus as to future problems; is 

there a role—maybe we should reframe the question—is there a 

role for the U.N. in ‘‘blank’’? And what should that role be from the 

perspective of the United States Congress in consultation with the 

administration? What are the concerns? Members could indicate 

their concerns. There would be a record available. And my own 

sense is that it would provoke this administration and the administration into a serious effort to examine options that might otherwise go unscrutinized; it might simply not happen because of the 

bureaucratic inertia. 

Joe. 

Mr. CHRISTOFF. Mr. Chairman, a couple comments that would 

help. I suggest you not only invite the U.N. Ambassador but you 

invite the Pentagon because if it is going to require resources of the 

U.S. Government to support the U.N. mission, or if it is done unilaterally, you want to know what the costs are, and that should be 

part of your debate as well. 

Also, Senator Wirth brings up a good point, about how we, right 

now, in the U.S. Government are trying to refocus our future stability operations; how can we do a better job given what we’ve experienced in Iraq? We’re looking at that issue right now and hope 

to report to the Congress about how the Special Office within the 

State Department is trying to do a better job of planning to put together a civilian reserve core. You gave them about $50 million to 

begin planning that. How is DoD actually including stability operations of equal importance to combat operations? I think you serve 

an important role in looking at the restructuring within the U.S. 

Government with the State Department taking the lead. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Groves? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, anything that would provide more transparency and accountability to the planning that goes into these operations is always, always welcome. It is just that the government, 

the U.S. Government and the U.N., are both on a learning curve 

right now. The number of peacekeeping operations that have come 

up since the end of the Cold War has just overwhelmed them. The 

budget for U.S. peacekeeping operations in 1990 was $81 million; 

4 years later, it was $1.2 billion. And we’ve seen the sea change 

in what we believe are priorities in terms of stabilization after 9/11. 

We can no longer allow failed states to sit and wallow in their failure and become a base for extremists, and that is what happened 

in Afghanistan. 

So our theory about where we should put our assets, military, 

State Department, diplomatic and otherwise, has taken a great 

right turn since 9/11. I think there is a bit of a learning curve. The 

more open discussion there is about it for planning operations, the 

better. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Thank you. 

Let me just go back. Mr. Groves, you talked about the Status of 

Force Agreements. I think it is something we should think about, 

but then I begin to reflect and think of the position of this administration in terms of their willingness to submit to an agreement that 
72

would possibly open U.S. personnel to jurisdiction outside of the 

United States. We did not accede to the Rome statute. You are familiar with that; I’m sure everyone here on the panel is. Of course, 

the byproduct of that now is we have 11 nations in Latin America 

that have been denied IMET assistance. We no longer have the 

same relationship between DoD and militaries and military forces 

in those countries, much to the chagrin of General Braddock and 

others that served in the position of heading SOUTHCOM. I know 

that, and I think Secretary Rice has indicated, it has become problematic. 

My friend had to leave. There was a vote in another committee 

that he had to attend to, but I would just point out, maybe you 

could comment on this, what I find interesting is the number of 

Chinese military personnel that are now being utilized in peacekeeping operations, not that it is dramatic, but starting from a zero 

base, it is significant. And yet I predict that once that occurs, those 

of the minority party, particularly those in the more conservative 

wing of the party, are going to be saying, ‘‘Oh, my God, how did 

this happen? And God, that U.N., they are going at it again; those 

Chinese are all over these peacekeeping operations.’’ I presume 

that they are very disciplined troops, that if they caused any embarrassment to the Chinese Government that they most likely 

would be prosecuted in a very timely fashion back in Beijing. But, 

again, I think what’s required is thinking these things through. Do 

we want to play a role? We have 80,000 or 100,000—this is my 

data and correct me if I’m wrong—we have 100,000 personnel in 

peacekeeping, and in terms of the U.S. presence, it is a little over 

300. That’s why I can’t understand why we just don’t recognize 

that this is a great return on our investment. 

Senator Wirth pointed out, this is a couple of days in Iraq. And 

we’re not in 16 or 17 venues all over the world where I think there 

would be a consensus that the majority of them we do have a vital 

national interest. I mean, you know, we had I think 14 or 15 hearings on the Oil-for-Food Program in the last Congress, and we 

haven’t had any yet in this one. But I think maybe we will have 

one, because I always ask the question about, what were those protocols all about? We know that Saddam was ripping the program 

off, but how did all these countries have these formal, written 

agreements that circumvented the sanctions, particularly when the 

United States, which sits on the Security Council, was aware of it? 

I just can’t understand, but then again, I’m limited. 

Well, let me—would you care to respond to the proliferation of 

the Chinese now in the peacekeeping efforts? I don’t mean to be facetious, but I think, honestly, sometimes we do things that we don’t 

go all the way in terms of our analysis. Great training ground for 

the Chinese. 

Mr. GROVES. Well, if China wants to add its forces to peacekeeping operations and they behave in the same way as other U.N. 

peacekeepers have, they deserve the same punishment back in 

their own countries. You alluded to the punishments that they 

often would receive which is one bullet and then charge the family 

for the price of the bullet. We just hope that other countries that 

contribute troops, like Bangladesh and Pakistan, won’t follow that 

lead if that’s how they would go into punishment. We would be 
73

happy with just solid criminal prosecutions and investigations 

where there is credible evidence of wrongdoing. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Groves, let me ask you this, if the issue of 

discipline and punishment could be dealt with to your satisfaction, 

do you consider the utilization of peacekeeping forces in the venues 

that we’ve alluded to during the course of this conversation to be 

to the benefit of American national interest? 

Mr. GROVES. Peacekeeping, yes and no. Peacekeeping operations 

are as good as they are. We can use them for one purpose but not 

another. They can do peace and stability operations in Haiti so that 

we can commit our troops elsewhere. There is a role for them to 

play, but we have to be very careful in what role we place them. 

As the examples that Congressman Rohrabacher rolled off, 

Srebrenica, Rwanda, there are times when their mandate for use 

of force was not clear. They stood down while atrocities occurred. 

We have to be very careful putting them in. We can’t just say, well, 

just send in the peacekeepers into Sudan and everything will be 

okay. 

So they can play a part, they can serve U.S. national interest 

but——

Mr. DELAHUNT. I don’t disagree with what you just said, but I 

guess what I’m looking for is, since we are part of the P5, why, you 

know, why—have we just simply not been aggressive sufficiently in 

terms of the mandate so that when—what occurred in Rwanda was 

unclear. Are we blaming the peacekeepers, or is it our responsibility as well as the others that were on the Security Council at 

the time to be clear? I mean, I’m kind of hawkish on that stuff. 

I don’t think I agree with the ranking member. I don’t believe 

you sit there and watch people slaughtered in front of you. I just 

think—that’s immoral. Mandate or no mandate. But are we being 

critical—I can understand the lack of discipline, et cetera, but in 

the end of responsibility ideas say is that of, you know, members 

in the Security Council that have that veto to be clear. And hopefully, as Senator Wirth indicated, there was a thoughtful analysis 

on the part of the executive branch when we voted in favor of the 

deployment of peacekeeping forces. And I know there are different 

mandates, and each of them I’m sure has their own idiosyncrasies. 

We can blame—my friend talks about waiting and a lack of prosecution; we have our own problems here in the United States Congress. We’ve been waiting, too, okay? The American people have 

been waiting a long time for a lot of things. It simply doesn’t happen like that. 

Let me recognize for as much time as he needs—if anybody has 

to excuse themselves for any reason, if you have any scheduling 

issues, we understand. The gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. 

Payne. 

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you very much, I apologize for being so late. 

I’m glad that you’re still here. I didn’t realize that would happen, 

but this is a very important issue on something that’s very dear to 

me. 

I’d just like to mention about the U.S. arrears to the U.N. I 

guess, Senator Wirth, you are on top of this the most, and I’m looking at different numbers. Do you have a good fix on exactly what 

our arrears are, and do we say that that’s an accurate number? 
74

You know, we’ve got some U.N. functions that we dispute the numbers of assessment and whether we thought it was too high or 

whatever; so where do we really stand on that issue? 

Mr. WIRTH. Leaving aside the assessment questions, Congressman, the so-called permanent debt or the overhang that comes 

from the past is $569 million, and then on top of that anticipate 

that this year because of the gap between the OMB mark and what 

the Congress has done so far and our obligations of what we voted 

for on peacekeeping, that leaves a gap of another $500 million. So 

we know the $569 million that’s there; we anticipate another $500 

million, unless there is another supplemental of some kind and the 

Congress fills that gap. 

Mr. PAYNE. Maybe anyone can try to answer, how do we continue 

to move forward peacekeeping and even consider additional peacekeeping operations when you continue to have a gap? How is it 

filled? Who is picking it up? Where is the money coming from? 

Mr. WIRTH. There is a chart over there on U.S. arrears. What 

happens, the U.N. does not have a reserve, a line of credit or whatever. What it does is—the U.N. doesn’t just pay the countries that 

provide the peacekeepers and provide the equipment. So we are 

tens of millions of dollars in debt in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Italy 

and so on. I mean, it adds up. That’s where the money comes from. 

So effectively, what we do is vote for these peacekeeping missions, 

don’t pay our bills, and then the countries that have to put the 

troops in and send the equipment in are footing the bill for that 

themselves; they don’t get paid by the U.N. because we don’t pay 

the U.N. 

Mr. PAYNE. Now that we have, I guess, our man at the U.N., the 

new Secretary General, I guess, was a candidate that had the support of the U.S. and Kofi Annan’s era is over, do you, in your opinion or anyone of the men on the panel, have you heard of any 

change now that we don’t have to argue, you know, now that I 

guess we’ll have our way totally at the U.N., we got our guy as Secretary General; do you think there will be a change on the part of 

the decision makers to request additional funds? I’m not on the inside. I’m a Member of Congress; you might know better than I do. 

Mr. WIRTH. I will give you three fast reactions, and then I will 

let my colleagues respond. 

Number one, the mood at the U.N. is so much better. Khalilzad 

has done a terrific job. He is a diplomat. He listens. He is reaching 

out. You know, it is a very welcome shift. 

Second, I think the mood in the Congress is dramatically different. When we come here and talk to people about the U.N., the 

overhang of sort of the concerns of the past are still out there, but 

people are really understanding that we have got major peacekeeping operations. We have got health care problems. We have got 

climate change. We are in this with the U.N. very tightly. That is 

very welcomed. 

Third, the Secretary General, I think on the peacekeeping area 

in particular, has done a terrific job of really getting the General 

Assembly to focus on the fact that our peacekeeping budget at the 

U.N. has gone up by a factor, as Mr. Groves said, of some 10 times 

in the last 10 years, and yet it is still managed in a very archaic 

way. So what the Secretary General has tried to do is to put all 
75

of the management functions of peacekeeping under one roof. Believe it or not, in the past peacekeeping was done with budget 

being in one office over here, procurements in another office, personnel in yet a third office. I mean, how could you possibly manage 

this? You know, it is awkward enough to manage an international 

force with troops coming from all over the place, speaking all of 

these different languages and so on, and then when you have almost this chaotic situation inside the U.N., it makes it even more 

difficult. He has, as of last night, I think, gotten agreement from 

the General Assembly to pull these authorities together and to 

make a much more coherent, well-managed operation. So these are 

a very welcome set of changes, all in response to your question. 

Thank you. 

Mr. PAYNE. Do you think that new Department of Peacekeeping 

Operations should be separated into the two departments of peace 

operations and field service? Is that a part of the new configuration? 

Mr. WIRTH. Yes, that is the new configuration, and I think everything except one part of either budget or procurement will fall 

within that. One of the battles, of course, then is—well, I think the 

final issue is, will there be funding for a second Under Secretary? 

You know, these are both very, very big jobs—operations and sort 

of the management of logistics. I think the final question that was 

being debated last night was the funding for that final senior person to be running that second, new, reorganized, peacekeeping 

management operation. 

Mr. PAYNE. Does anyone else have any views on the new spirit 

at the U.N., and do you think that it is going to be able to move 

forward more smoothly? 

Mr. CHRISTOFF. I think one of the opportunities for the new Secretary General is to reenergize the reform initiatives, the management reform initiatives, to try to move forward on those. Senator 

Wirth talked about the restructuring at the Department of Peacekeeping Operations into two departments. 

On the positive side, what it brings is that you are centralizing 

a lot of the procurement initiatives so that you have one department that is responsible for $1.1 billion worth of procurement, and 

peacekeeping is practically the bulk of all of the procurement activities. So you have opportunities for dealing with a lot of the 

problems that we found last year with procurement, as to what is 

needed to be done. It is still unclear to me as to how these two department heads, with one reporting to the other, are going to work 

and whether or not you are going to have those clear lines of authority and responsibilities with one department head reporting to 

another.

Mr. DELAHUNT. Would the gentleman yield for just a minute——

Mr. PAYNE. Yes. 

Mr. DELAHUNT [continuing]. Because I will forget the question. 

I think I posed it or I made the observation earlier—and I am 

just drawing an inference—that because of the arrearage and because of the amounts of money that are owed to these primarily 

Third World nations, I think almost exclusively Third World nations, are we having difficulty recruiting troops for peacekeeping 

deployments? 
76

Ambassador Dobbins. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. Well, I think the generic answer is yes. 

U.N. peacekeeping operations are generally undermanned. That is, 

they do not generally get their manpower up to the authorized levels, and the reason is that the demand exceeds the supply of peacekeepers these days with the increasing number of missions. 

Mr. WIRTH. I think that has always been the case. I am not sure 

that it is exacerbated now by the deficit situation, although the size 

of the new Darfur operation, if it is launched, is 20 million. That 

is an additional 20 percent on top of an already strained situation. 

So at that point I think we will see, you know, potentially real 

pressure on: Where are those troops going to come from? Where is 

that equipment going to come from? How is that going to get financed? I think that is a big jump-up in one bite. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. I will just add to that. 

I mean, you know, we have manpower needs for our armed services, and when the Army needs recruits, it adjusts the incentives 

considerably—signing bonuses, education bonuses. They have got a 

lot of flexibility. The Congress gives them a lot of flexibility. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. But lower standards. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. As the demands go up, the incentives are 

heavily adjusted. The U.N. does not have most of that flexibility. 

Nevertheless, clearly, there is a supply and demand question that 

comes into operation here, and to the degree to which you increase 

the disincentives—you do not pay people on time—it is an obstacle. 

I do not know how you would quantify that obstacle or demonstrate 

that it is responsible for this particular aspect of the shortfall, but 

I think you can assume that if the U.N. paid its bills more fully 

and more on time it would have a marginally better chance of attracting donor contingents. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Payne. 

Mr. PAYNE. Yes. 

I am really encouraged then. I know that, Senator Wirth, you are 

more on top of it, but you seem very optimistic that we are going 

to be able to get, I assume, the arrears paid up and we are going 

to be right on time with our payments since we have this new chap 

at the U.N. and everybody, and we do not like the contentious old 

regime. So I can go out of here——

Mr. WIRTH. I do not think I said that I was optimistic that this 

was going to happen. I think that we have got some real problems 

in terms of that hard core arrears of about, you know, $550 million. 

As to this new gap, I do not know where that is going to come from 

unless there is some kind of a supplemental, and you all say, ‘‘Hey, 

this has got to be in it, and we have got to pay that bill.’’ Certainly, 

that current $500 million is priority number one. The arrears will 

gnaw on us out there for a long time, and you know, that is a lower 

priority than what has to be done this year. 

Mr. PAYNE. Just on the former problems with the sexual abuse—

someone probably mentioned it in their remarks. What is the situation currently in general? If anyone would like to give a shot at it. 

Has it improved? Has it been something that has been made a priority and so forth? Does anyone have any sort of thumbnail assessment of where we stand now as compared to when the scandal 

broke? 
77

Mr. WIRTH. I will respond, and others may want to respond to 

this. 

You will remember that when Congress first had hearings on 

this Jane Holl Lute came down. She was the Assistant Secretary 

General and a former senior Army officer in the U.S., and was responsible for this area at the U.N. She has taken a really tough 

position on peacekeepers’ sexual abuse and exploitation issues. She 

established a zero tolerance policy, and she says, ‘‘I cannot do 

something about what people are going to do, but I can certainly 

have an impact on responding to what they do.’’ There has been a 

real change, I think, in the last year based upon the activities that 

she has undertaken. Now, how good has that been? 

We had some debate about that here. You know, I think that it 

is getting better all the time, and this is a peacekeeping force of 

80,000 troops from all over the world with many, many different 

cultures and many, many different disciplines. You are very familiar with that, Congressman. I do not have to tell you. 

I think it is interesting that, very recently, NATO came to the 

U.N. peacekeeping operation and asked for help on how to set up, 

you know, such a zero tolerance policy. How did it work? What 

were the guidelines? 

So, if NATO is coming to the U.N. to ask for help on sexual 

abuse issues, that would seem to me to be a pretty good indication 

that some progress is being made. 

Mr. GROVES. I will just build onto the Senator’s comments. It 

does appear that the U.N. is taking the allegations and the problem very seriously, and Jane Holl Lute is at the forefront of it, and 

we are very lucky to have her there. The U.N. has been much better about education and awareness of the problem and putting in 

conduct units within peacekeeping organizations. 

Where my testimony crosses that path is not so much what the 

U.N. can and cannot do—because they are limited—but where does 

the member state who contributes these troops that are causing 

these problems step up. Where do they take on the accountability 

instead of continuing with impunity in not thoroughly investigating 

or prosecuting their personnel who have committed crimes? 

That was the thrust of my testimony, Congressman. 

Mr. PAYNE. Great. Well—yes. 

Mr. WIRTH. One final point if I might. 

It is a very interesting issue that is raised. Obviously, it is the 

responsibility of the countries that supply the troops. You know, 

how do you provide standards to them? Then you get into the question that Mr. Groves raised. How do you enforce that? Clearly, you 

do not want a central enforcement mechanism, you know, at the 

U.N., because that is something that the U.S., for example, would 

never stand for, the U.N.’s being able to reach in and then have 

enforcement actions against the U.S. military. So we are in kind 

of a fuzzy area, and I think we are learning about how those standards get set for the troop-sending country and then what kind of 

accountability there is that those standards get met in that troopsending country without, you know, some kind of an outside enforcement mechanism that we would never tolerate in the United 

States. 
78

Mr. CHRISTOFF. I think the United Nations is still trying to get 

a handle on the extent of the problem as well. I think it was illprepared in addressing some of the problems in the Congo, and it 

just in the past couple of years has actually established a mechanism to try to document the number of cases. You know, the number of allegations has doubled over the past 2 years. Last year, 

there were 347 alleged cases of sexual exploitation and abuse, but 

I think they are still trying to determine what is the magnitude of 

the problem and, without question, deal with it firmly and aggressively. 

Ambassador DOBBINS. Could I just add to that? 

It is important to see this problem in some perspective. There are 

probably 100,000 people alive in the Congo today who would be 

dead if the U.N. troops were not there. There have been 347 cases 

of alleged sexual abuse. That ought to be reduced, but you do have 

to keep this in some proportion. 

Mr. PAYNE. Oh, yes. There is no question about it. You know, it 

had been a problem with the military long before the U.N., just in 

military actions. Let me just conclude. 

I agree about Jane Holl Lute. She, actually, originated from my 

congressional district, so I take special pride. Her father was a very 

close, personal friend of mine who passed away several years ago, 

but I know he was very, very proud of her. She was the only girl 

he had, but I think he was prouder of her than he was of the boys. 

Just as a final question, with this so-called ‘‘hybrid Darfur peacekeeping group,’’ could anyone explain to me what you think it is 

right now and when you think it might get going? 

Mr. GROVES. My understanding is that Bashir has agreed, in 

principle, to allow U.N. peacekeepers. There is a wide belief that 

this is something that he will back out of, and he has conditioned 

it on that the U.N. peacekeepers must all come from Africa, which 

is a nonstarter. So I think it is not really close to being in the offing. 

Mr. PAYNE. Okay. So he agrees—that is right—in principle? 

Mr. WIRTH. Well, I think the other, you know, controversial part 

of it is how well-equipped are those extra 15,000 additional troops 

in this hybrid force. How well-equipped are they going to be? What 

are the rules of engagement that they are given? I mean these are, 

you know, the very complicated details that still have to be worked 

out. You know, is progress being made? Well, we hope so. 

Mr. PAYNE. Okay. Well, we went from a 20,000 U.N. to, maybe, 

a 20,000 U.N.-AU hybrid. At one time, it was only AU. So we sit 

and wait for Bashir to come up with his next proclamation. You 

know, I think we should have a no-fly zone. I think we ought to 

go up, and when one of those planes come across—you know, you 

do not even have to put any boots on the ground—take that one 

out and maybe just go and destroy another 20 of them on the 

ground. You know, until Bashir and his government feel that somebody might hurt them, this thing is going to just go on and on and 

on. It is not going to change. He does not feel he has to change. 

He has got no reason to change because it is up to him to invite 

in the people to protect those who he is killing. So you know, it is 

like Al Capone’s inviting in the police. You know, it is just not 

going to happen, and as long as we sit around and let him dictate, 
79

you know, what it ought to be—we should have taken a couple of 

planes down 3 years ago, and then I think he would have had a 

different attitude right now, but until and unless he feels that they 

are in harm’s way, you know, the construction continues in Khartoum, they tell me, of luxury apartments. They have got more 

Lexuses being, you know, imported and big Mercedes Benzes, and 

you have got, you know, 1.5 million people living in tents, being fed 

by the world. I never thought or dreamed I would see something 

like that happen in 2007. I am a peaceful type of guy. I do not go 

for aggression. They should have been taken out years ago, period. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. 

Mr. DELAHUNT. I thank the gentleman, and I thank the panel. 

It has been very informative and illuminating, and I hope to see 

all of you back here on future occasions. 

We are now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

(81)

A P P E N D I X 

MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING RECORD

[NOTE: Mr. Joseph A. Christoff, Director, International Affairs and Trade Team, 

Government Accountability Office, submitted a revised prepared statement after the 

hearing. This revised statement follows:]
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