THE HOMELESS CHILDREN AND YOUTH 

ACT OF 2011: PROPOSALS TO PROMOTE 

ECONOMIC INDEPENDENCE FOR HOMELESS 

CHILDREN AND YOUTH 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

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INSURANCE, HOUSING AND 

COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY 

OF THE

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U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

DECEMBER 15, 2011 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services 

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THE HOMELESS CHILDREN AND YOUTH ACT OF 2011: PROPOSALS TO PROMOTE 

ECONOMIC INDEPENDENCE FOR HOMELESS CHILDREN AND YOUTH 

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THE HOMELESS CHILDREN AND YOUTH 

ACT OF 2011: PROPOSALS TO PROMOTE 

ECONOMIC INDEPENDENCE FOR HOMELESS 

CHILDREN AND YOUTH 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

INSURANCE, HOUSING AND 

COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

DECEMBER 15, 2011 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services 

Serial No. 112–93 

( 

(II) 

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES 

SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama, Chairman 

JEB HENSARLING, Texas, Vice Chairman 

PETER T. KING, New York 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California 

FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma 

RON PAUL, Texas 

DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois 

WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina 

JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois 

GARY G. MILLER, California 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

SCOTT GARRETT, New Jersey 

RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas 

PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina 

JOHN CAMPBELL, California 

MICHELE BACHMANN, Minnesota 

THADDEUS G. McCOTTER, Michigan 

KEVIN McCARTHY, California 

STEVAN PEARCE, New Mexico 

BILL POSEY, Florida 

MICHAEL G. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri 

BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan 

SEAN P. DUFFY, Wisconsin 

NAN A. S. HAYWORTH, New York 

JAMES B. RENACCI, Ohio 

ROBERT HURT, Virginia 

ROBERT J. DOLD, Illinois 

DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona 

MICHAEL G. GRIMM, New York 

FRANCISCO ‘‘QUICO’’ CANSECO, Texas 

STEVE STIVERS, Ohio 

STEPHEN LEE FINCHER, Tennessee 

BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts, Ranking 

Member 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York 

LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York 

MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina 

GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts 

RUBE ́ N HINOJOSA, Texas 

WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri 

CAROLYN MCCARTHY, New York 

JOE BACA, California 

STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts 

BRAD MILLER, North Carolina 

DAVID SCOTT, Georgia 

AL GREEN, Texas 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

KEITH ELLISON, Minnesota 

ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado 

JOE DONNELLY, Indiana 

ANDRE ́ CARSON, Indiana 

JAMES A. HIMES, Connecticut 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

JOHN C. CARNEY, JR., Delaware 

LARRY C. LAVENDER, Chief of Staff 

(III) 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INSURANCE, HOUSING AND COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY

JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois, Chairman 

ROBERT HURT, Virginia, Vice Chairman 

GARY G. MILLER, California 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

SCOTT GARRETT, New Jersey 

PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina 

LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

SEAN P. DUFFY, Wisconsin 

ROBERT J. DOLD, Illinois 

STEVE STIVERS, Ohio 

LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois, Ranking 

Member 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri 

MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts 

(V) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on: 

December 15, 2011 ........................................................................................... 1 

Appendix: 

December 15, 2011 ........................................................................................... 49 

WITNESSES 

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 15, 2011 

Cackley, Alicia Puente, Director, Financial Markets and Community Investment, U.S. Government Accountability Office ................................................... 27 

Diamond, Seth, Commissioner, New York City Department of Homeless Services ......................................................................................................................... 29 

Dunlap Brandon, Chicago, Illinois ......................................................................... 7 

Garza, Maria Estella, Homeless Liaison, San Antonio Independent School 

District .................................................................................................................. 31 

Johnston, Mark, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Office of Special Needs, U.S. 

Department of Housing and Urban Development ............................................. 33 

Khan, Rumi, 6th grader, Lamberton Middle School, Carlisle, Pennsylvania ..... 8 

Koon, Brittany Amber, PFC, Ft. Hood, Texas ....................................................... 10 

Pastor, Brooklyn, 7th grader, William Paca Middle School, Shirley, New 

York ....................................................................................................................... 11 

Poppe, Barbara, Executive Director, United States Interagency Council on 

Homelessness ........................................................................................................ 34 

Raynor, Destiny, 9th grader, Winter Springs High School, Sanford, Florida .... 12 

Rodgers, Starnica, Truman College, Chicago, Illinois .......................................... 14 

Whitney, Grace-Ann Caruso, Ph.D., MPA, IMH–E (IV), Director, Connecticut 

Head Start State Collaboration Office, Connecticut State Department of 

Education .............................................................................................................. 36 

APPENDIX 

Prepared statements: 

Cackley, Alicia Puente ..................................................................................... 50 

Diamond, Seth .................................................................................................. 63 

Dunlap Brandon ............................................................................................... 66 

Garza, Maria Estella ........................................................................................ 70 

Johnston, Mark ................................................................................................. 79 

Khan, Rumi ....................................................................................................... 85 

Koon, Brittany Amber ...................................................................................... 88 

Pastor, Brooklyn ............................................................................................... 92 

Poppe, Barbara ................................................................................................. 94 

Raynor, Destiny ................................................................................................ 105 

Rodgers, Starnica ............................................................................................. 110 

Whitney, Grace-Ann Caruso ............................................................................ 112 

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Biggert, Hon. Judy: 

December 12, 2011, letter from the the Alliance for Excellent Education .. 118 

December 9, 2011, letter from the American School Counselor Association ................................................................................................................. 119 

December 8, 2011, letter from the Chicago Coalition for the Homeless ...... 120 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise ........................................... 122 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Albuquerque ................ 123 

Page

VI 

Biggert, Hon. Judy—Continued 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Berks County, Inc. ...... 124 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Bryan-College Station . 125 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Forsyth County ............ 126 

December 13, 2011, letter from Fort Bend Family Promise ......................... 127 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Gallatin Valley ............ 128 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Greater Helena ............ 129 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Las Vegas ..................... 130 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Midland ........................ 131 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Monmouth County ...... 132 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of Morris County ............. 133 

December 13, 2011, letter from Family Promise of North Idaho ................. 134 

December 9, 2011, letter from the First Focus Campaign for Children ...... 135 

December 12, 2011, letter from HEAR US Inc. ............................................. 136 

December 13, 2011, letter from Horizons for Homeless Children ................ 137 

December 9, 2011, letter from the Homeless Prenatal Program .................. 138 

December 13, 2011, letter from Huckleberry House ..................................... 139 

December 13, 2011, letter from The Interfaith Hospitality Network of 

Augusta, Inc. ................................................................................................. 140 

December 13, 2011, letter from The Interfaith Hospitality Network of 

Burlington County ........................................................................................ 141 

December 13, 2011, letter from The Interfaith Hospitality Network of 

Essex County, Inc. ........................................................................................ 143 

December 13, 2011, letter from The Interfaith Hospitality Network of 

Greater Johnson City ................................................................................... 144 

December 5, 2011, letter from The Interfaith Hospitality Network of 

Northwest Philadelphia ................................................................................ 145 

December 12, 2011, letter from the National Association for the Education of Homeless Children and Youth ...................................................... 148 

December 15, 2011, letter from the National Association of Home Builders ................................................................................................................... 150 

December 9, 2011, letter from the National Association of REALTORS® .. 151 

December 14, 2011, letter from the National Association of Secondary 

School Principals ........................................................................................... 152 

December 6, 2011, letter from the National PTA .......................................... 154 

December 8, 2011, letter from the National Center on Family Homelessness ................................................................................................................ 155 

December 2011 report of the National Center on Family Homelessness 

entitled, ‘‘America’s Youngest Outcasts 2010’’ ............................................ 156 

December 9, 2011, letter from the National Coalition for the Homeless ..... 280 

December 9, 2011, letter from the National Center for Housing & Child 

Welfare ........................................................................................................... 282 

December 9, 2011, letter from the National Health Care for the Homeless 

Council ........................................................................................................... 284 

December 8, 2011, letter from the National Human Services Assembly ..... 285 

December 12, 2011, letter from the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty .............................................................................................. 286 

December 14, 2011, letter from the National Low Income Housing Coalition ................................................................................................................. 288 

December 9, 2011, letter from The National Network for Youth ................. 290 

December 13, 2011, letter from the National Network to End Domestic 

Violence .......................................................................................................... 292 

December 8, 2011, letter from the School Social Work Association of 

America .......................................................................................................... 293 

December 13, 2011, letter from The Road Home ........................................... 294 

June 2011 National Center for Homeless Education report entitled, ‘‘Education for Homeless Children and Youth Program, Data Collection 

Summary’’ ...................................................................................................... 295 

December 7, 2011, letter from Women Against Abuse .................................. 331 

December 12, 2011, letter from the Western Regional Advocacy Project .... 332 

(1) 

THE HOMELESS CHILDREN AND YOUTH 

ACT OF 2011: PROPOSALS TO PROMOTE 

ECONOMIC INDEPENDENCE FOR HOMELESS 

CHILDREN AND YOUTH 

Thursday, December 15, 2011 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INSURANCE, HOUSING

AND COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY, 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, 

Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m., in room 

2237, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Judy Biggert [chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Members present: Representatives Biggert, Capito, Stivers; 

Waters, Cleaver, and Capuano. 

Also present: Representatives George Miller of California, Green, 

and Davis. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. The Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing 

and Community Opportunity will come to order. We are having a 

hearing today entitled, ‘‘The Homeless Children and Youth Act of 

2011: Proposals to Promote Economic Independence for Homeless 

Children and Youth.’’ 

I would like to welcome you all here today. And first of all, I 

would like to thank the Judiciary Committee for allowing us to 

hold our hearing in this room. We usually are in our Financial 

Services Committee room, but they are doing some work to fix the 

walls because of the earthquake that occurred about a month ago. 

I never thought that Washington would have to repair walls from 

earthquakes, but that is the way it is. 

I will now turn to opening statements, and without objection, all 

Members’ opening statements will be made a part of the record. 

And I will yield myself such time as I require. 

Good morning, everyone, and I would like to welcome our special 

guests on panel one, and especially the current or former homeless 

children and youth, also in the audience. Welcome, to you, and 

thank you so much for being here. And we hope that your first experience—I assume this is your first experience—with the U.S. 

Congress as a witness or in the audience here is a good one, one 

that will help many children in this country. 

And I would also like to recognize a now formerly homeless family that was featured on ‘‘60 Minutes’’ recently, the Metzgers— 

Arielle, Austin, and their dad, Tom. So welcome—maybe raise your 

2 

hands so we can see where you are. Thank you. Thanks for being 

here. 

Children should not be without a home and they should not have 

to fight to prove that they are homeless, and on this, I hope we all 

agree. Today’s hearing will examine H.R. 32, the Homeless Children and Youth Act of 2011, which will expand the McKinneyVento definition of ‘‘homeless person’’ so that homeless children 

and youth verified as homeless by other Federal programs can access HUD housing and services. 

We have a unique opportunity to hear from witnesses about the 

bureaucratic barriers that are preventing homeless children and 

youth from securing HUD homeless assistance. Our ultimate goal 

is to ensure that homeless children and youth are eligible for HUD 

homeless housing and supportive services. 

Secure and more stable housing as well as supportive services 

will help kids stay in school and avoid becoming tomorrow’s homeless adults. These goals must be a top priority for Federal agencies 

that have homeless programs. 

If Federal programs are not working for the people they are intended to serve, it is our job to find the flaws and reform those programs. During the past decade, two significant reforms to the 

McKinney-Vento Act have been intended to help children and 

youth to more easily secure homeless assistance, but our work is 

not complete. This week, the National Center on Family Homelessness released a report revealing that 1 out of every 45 children in 

the United States is homeless. 

The Department of Education reported that student homelessness is on the rise. There are nearly 1 million homeless children 

in the United States, and these statistics are absolutely unacceptable. 

Our subcommittee will work to identify the Federal red tape that 

is standing in the way of local providers who are helping homeless 

children and youth to increase what they can do. We will pursue 

reform measures that break down those barriers. One such reform 

measure, H.R. 32, our subcommittee will likely consider when we 

come back in 2012. 

With that, I recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Cleaver, 

for an opening statement. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

I would like to first of all extend a very warm welcome to the 

two young men and four young women who are testifying before 

this committee. You are having an experience that hardly any 

other individuals your age will ever have, and that means that you 

are now famous. You can start your own reality TV show. Thank 

you for being here to share your own personal experiences. 

You can’t turn on the television or go out anyplace during this 

time of year without seeing at least the attempt to create a festive 

environment. This is a holiday season that generally captures the 

attention of just about everybody in this country. 

It is difficult, however, for me, having read your testimonies, to 

feel the kind of festive atmosphere that I would normally enter into 

during this time of the year. While I have four children, and while 

I look like I am in my thirties, I actually have three grandchildren, 

3 

and it is a bit painful to read your testimonies. There is nothing 

that can touch my soul as much as finding pain with young people. 

In my real life, I am a United Methodist pastor, and from time 

to time I do become involved in issues adversely affecting young 

people. And this testimony that I was able to read actually touched 

my soul and caused me to do a great deal of thinking last night 

as I was trying to sleep. And in my struggles last night trying to 

sleep after having read this, I thought to myself, ‘‘Now, what about 

all these other kids around the country who have no place to 

sleep?’’ I am in my bed across the street—I live in the Methodist 

building—and I am not able to sleep because I am thinking, ‘‘Boy, 

this is terrible.’’ And then, I thought about people without a place 

to sleep, and that really created more pain. 

Sometimes, our discussions on the issues of homelessness can become extremely technical and we become more involved in program 

descriptions and specifics, but we cannot lose sight—we must not 

lose sight of the fact that this discussion today is about real people—real stories. And your testimony will help us to remember 

that. 

One thing we all know is that despite the efforts we have made 

over the past several years, and the improvements that we have 

made with the HEARTH Act, there is still much that our Federal 

agencies could do to improve coordination across programs and increase access to the services that are being provided. I think that 

today we will hear some valuable perspectives on how we in Congress can help. 

I understand that our subcommittee Chair, Mrs. Biggert’s, bill is 

intended to reduce the barriers to services for children and youth 

who are in highly unstable housing situations but don’t currently 

meet the HUD definition of homeless. So I want to thank Mrs. 

Biggert for her work. 

And, there are very few conversations that we can have here in 

Washington that will not include a discussion of dollars. For good 

or bad, that is the way it goes. And this discussion is no different, 

so we have to acknowledge that fact as we move forward. 

I want to thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for what you have 

done, and I look forward to hearing the testimony today. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Cleaver. 

The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Stivers, is recognized for 3 minutes. 

Mr. STIVERS. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And I would like 

to thank you for holding this hearing today to ensure that homeless 

children and youth have access to homeless assistance and services. I appreciate that. 

I am pleased to welcome Private First Class Brittany Amber 

Koon, who spent much of her childhood in Upper Arlington, Ohio, 

in my district, and she recently joined the United States military— 

the Army—and completed her initial service and is stationed at 

Fort Hood, Texas. I am looking forward to hearing her testimony 

today, and I want to thank her and all the witnesses for sharing 

their stories. 

One of the things that Private First Class Koon’s testimony reminded me, she has a quote in there that she liked the idea of taking her leadership skills to the next level to serve her country and 

4 

she decided to go on active duty because she would have training 

and a stable place to live. We have a lot of young folks in this country who have a lot to offer, and many of them are fighting homelessness. And I can tell you, I am pleased to join that fight with 

Private First Class Koon and to try to fight homelessness. 

I am looking forward to hearing the testimony of all of the witnesses today. I appreciate your time, and I look forward to hearing 

your testimony. 

And I appreciate the chairman for holding this hearing, and I 

look forward to continuing the fight to make things better for 

young folks who are suffering from homelessness. 

Thank you so much. 

And welcome, Private First Class Koon. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

Mr. Cleaver? 

Mr. CLEAVER. Mr. George Miller is here with us. He is not a 

member of this subcommittee, but I would ask unanimous consent 

to allow him to speak on this issue that he feels very strongly 

about. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

The gentleman from Massachusetts is recognized for 1 minute. 

Mr. CAPUANO. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Madam Chairwoman, thank you for having this hearing, and I 

congratulate the young people who are here today. I don’t think 

this is a usual situation. Congress is not a usual place. So don’t 

think this has anything to do with most of your real life. 

But I want to be really clear: This proposal today is a good proposal. It is something that is long overdue and I congratulate the 

chairwoman for submitting it. 

But I also want to be very clear: This is not going to be the final 

answer to ending homelessness with children or with others. The 

only way this country is going to do that is to put money on the 

table to build more affordable housing. Simple. 

Otherwise, there will be no place to go. Simply getting a family 

into a shelter is better than not, but we can’t just leave them in 

a shelter. That is not real advancement; that is not real opportunity. 

It is better than not, but we need to build affordable housing in 

this country right up the ladder for the people at the bottom, the 

people on the next rung up, and the next rung up. And we need 

to make sure that those people can afford to buy a home. In today’s 

world, we will be able to afford tomorrow by keeping mortgage 

rates at a reasonable level. 

Otherwise, most of the world will be forced into subsidized housing if they can’t get into their own home or homeownership. And 

if that happens, we will never be able to build our way out of it. 

So I want to be really clear: This is a good proposal that is long 

overdue that I strongly support and I look forward to passing. 

But as far as I am concerned, we really have to get serious about 

addressing homelessness in this country, which, to me, is a national embarrassment. It is a national embarrassment that we 

have children on the streets. It is a national embarrassment that 

we have veterans on the street. It is a national embarrassment 

5 

that we don’t take care of some of our people with mental challenges who are also on the street. 

I think it doesn’t speak well for us as a society. So for me, this 

is a great thing, but I want to be very clear that this will not end 

homelessness. The only way for us to do that as a society is to be 

honest about it and to try to put money on the table to build more 

affordable housing so that people will be able to move up the ladder on their own. 

Madam Chairwoman, I yield back the remainder of my time. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

Mr. Green, from Texas, you are recognized for 2 minutes. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Please permit me, Madam Chairwoman, to thank you for hosting 

this hearing. It is, without question, one of the most important 

hearings that we will have, and one of the most important hearings 

that I think that I have been a party to. So I am grateful that you 

have had the vision and the foresight to cause us to visit these 

issues. 

I would like to concur with my colleagues who have stressed the 

importance of the issue. I also want to stress the importance of the 

fact that we can solve the problem. It is not something that is beyond our ability to resolve. 

So the question really isn’t whether there is a way to resolve this 

issue of homelessness with our young people. The question is really 

whether we have the will. 

Do we have the will to do it? If we only have the will, this country, which prides itself on its future, will take charge and make 

sure that the future continues to be bright for all of our children. 

I thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Green. 

We are joined by Ranking Member Miller, the ranking member 

of the Education and the Workforce Committee. 

Thank you for joining us, and you are recognized for 4 minutes. 

Mr. GEORGE MILLER OF CALIFORNIA. Thank you, Chairwoman 

Biggert, for holding this hearing on such a critical issue facing our 

Nation today. I want to thank you for your leadership on this issue 

and the Committee on Education and the Workforce. You have 

been a consistent champion of homeless children and families, and 

it has been a pleasure to partner with you on such important 

issues. 

I also want to thank all the young people who are here to tell 

their stories today to the committee and to the Congress. I can’t 

tell you how important it is that Congress hears directly on the realities that you and your families face because of the lack of adequate housing. I have served on the Education Committee for my 

entire time in public office, and I know what a dramatic impact 

housing and mobility have on a student’s education. 

Public schools have a unique perspective on social and economic 

issues like homelessness. Unlike other community service organizations, schools see the full range of children without housing, not 

just children and youth who make it into a shelter. They see kids 

moving from place to place, from couch, to basement, to car, to 

motel, and to another couch. None of these places should be considered a home. 

6 

We know that homelessness puts kids at a much higher risk of 

educational failure. Students without stable homes have more attendance problems and they don’t do as well in school. Student 

homelessness is also often overlooked as a contributor to the Nation’s dropout crises. 

Without an education, these students will have a more difficult 

time obtaining jobs that pay decent wages, and they are more likely to experience homelessness as an adult. Federal education law, 

through the McKinney-Vento Act, requires schools to support 

homeless students in a number of ways, including keeping homeless students in the same school when it is in their best interest 

and providing transportation or immediately enrolling them in new 

schools. 

However, education is only part of the answer. In order for homeless students to succeed in school, they must receive housing and 

other supportive services that will stabilize their situations and enable them to concentrate on their education. 

Unfortunately, school districts face barriers when they try to 

refer kids to the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s 

homeless programs because of the difference in the definitions of 

‘‘homeless.’’ This prevents kids from getting services they need and 

limits community collaboration. And perhaps equally disturbing, 

this mismatch in definition also keeps the true scale of children 

and youth homelessness hidden from view. 

H.R. 32 is similar to legislation enacted by the Education and the 

Workforce Committee, the Child Nutrition and Higher Education 

Act. Both of these laws help homeless kids get services through the 

programs by taking advantage of point people in the public schools. 

Similarly, H.R. 32 gets rid of the interagency barriers by allowing 

school districts and liaisons and others in Federal and child youth 

programs to verify children and youth in HUD homelessness services. 

It is absolutely critical that this coordination, collaboration, and 

availability be made acceptable within the laws of this country so 

that these children will not have these artificial barriers put up to 

stability in their residencies, and in stability in their education attainment, and stability in their family life so that they can continue to seek and to successfully complete their educational opportunities in this country. 

And I want to thank you again, Madam Chairwoman, for holding 

this hearing. 

And again, thank you to the students we are going to hear from. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you very much. 

And now, we will introduce all of the panel members, and then 

we will come back and you will each have 5 minutes for your statement. 

We have: Brandon Dunlap, from Chicago, Illinois; Rumi Khan, 

who is in sixth grade at Lamberton Middle School, Carlisle, Pennsylvania—thank you for being here; Brittany Amber Koon, PFC, 

Fort Hood, Texas—thank you for being here; Brook Pastor, who is 

in seventh grade at William Paca Middle School, Shirley, New 

York—thank you for being here, also; Destiny Raynor, who is in 

ninth grade at Winter Springs High School in Sanford, Florida— 

it is a little cold here, isn’t it, compared to that; and Ms. Starnica 

7 

Rodgers, from Truman College in Chicago, Illinois. Thank you all 

for being here. 

With that, without objection, your written statements will be 

made a part of the record, and then you will each be recognized for 

a 5-minute summary of your testimony. 

So we will start with you, Brandon Dunlap. 

STATEMENT OF BRANDON DUNLAP, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 

Mr. DUNLAP. Good morning. Thank you for having me here today 

to testify in support of H.R. 32. 

I am from Chicago, Illinois. I graduated from Kendall College 

and currently work in the food and beverage department of the 

Union League Club. I am proud of what I have accomplished so far 

but it has been very difficult. A safe and secure place to live would 

have been very helpful to me in many ways. 

For most of my childhood, I did not have a stable place to live. 

My parents separated when I was young. After they split, my mom, 

sister, and I ended up living with different relatives and friends. 

Since then, my mom got and lost a number of apartments, and 

when we were not together, I had to move from place to place. The 

summer before my junior year, I received a phone call just before 

work from my sister stating that the sheriff was there to put our 

things on the street. My mother was nowhere to be found. 

I went to work with tears in my eyes, not knowing where I was 

going to go for the night. The tears wouldn’t stop, so my manager 

offered to let me go home. The tears came even stronger than possible because I had no home to go to. 

That night, I stayed with my cousin. However, he didn’t allow me 

to have a key to come and go as I pleased, and there wasn’t enough 

room for me or even a bed. I slept on the floor under the pool table. 

Some nights, I would travel a long distance on public transportation from school to work, often in bad weather, only to find that 

my cousin was not home and I needed to find somewhere else to 

stay for the night. I would scramble to call different friends and 

family members and then get back to the bus to travel a long distance to another place to stay. 

I developed a rotation theory in which I would try to avoid staying in the same place two nights in a row. I had to have a plan, 

and then a backup plan, and then more plans just in case the 

backup plan didn’t work. 

The time and energy it took for me to figure out where to sleep 

each night and travel to get there, plus my job at Subway, left little 

time for homework. I have faced many barriers to housing in my 

life. My mom had issues she needed help with, but if she had had 

stable housing and services, she may have been able to address 

those issues, and my homelessness could have been prevented. 

After I was on my own in high school, I could not afford my own 

housing, and even if I could have, no one would rent to a teenager. 

Although people at my school were helping me with other things, 

nobody was able to help me with my living situation. I would have 

loved some place to live that was safe, warm, and consistent, and 

a healthy place to do homework, go to school, work, eat, and live 

my life. 

8 

It would have been very difficult to verify my living situation 

growing up. To ask for proof that an adult allowed me, a homeless 

child, to live with them for only 14 days would possibly cause some 

adults to feel guilty or worry that they could get in trouble. 

I didn’t want anyone who was helping me to get tired of my presence. Asking them for verification would be another burden for 

them. 

For the same reasons, I would not feel comfortable asking them 

to state that I moved twice within 60 days. Most people knew only 

what I told them about my living situation and didn’t keep track 

of the number of days or moves. 

Also, family members would have been reluctant to verify something that might show my parents were not caring for me. I also 

didn’t want to risk doing anything that might involve any authorities because I didn’t want them going after my parents. 

If, in order to access housing services, I had to show that I would 

likely be homeless for a long time, that would be difficult for me, 

as I always hoped that I wouldn’t be homeless for too long. 

I would also like to repeat something I said in the beginning of 

my statement: I am proud of what I have accomplished. When I 

was homeless, it was like steering a ship in a storm on the open 

ocean. Above all else, this situation has forced me to look to myself 

for success. 

However, I hope that other young people do not have to go 

through what I went through. I hope that the situation of young 

people who are staying temporarily with friends and families is 

considered homeless by all government agencies, and they are 

given assistance with a stable place to live. 

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my experience 

with you today. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Dunlap can be found on page 66 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Rumi Khan, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF RUMI KHAN, 6TH GRADER, LAMBERTON 

MIDDLE SCHOOL, CARLISLE, PENNSYLVANIA 

Mr. KHAN. Good morning, Mrs. Biggert, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for holding this hearing so you can learn 

about homelessness from how we see it as kids. 

My name is Rumi Khan, and I am 11 years old. I am in 6th 

grade at Lamberton Middle School in Carlisle, PA. 

Me and my mom are homeless. We got that way because my dad 

was abusing me and my mom. He hit me, and called me stupid and 

retarded. He tried to choke my mom. 

We left our home in June last year and went to stay in a hotel 

for a couple of nights. She tried to find a shelter for us to stay in 

but they didn’t have any room. 

One of her friends from work offered to let us stay there. Her 

friend changed and would get really mean with me. Sometimes she 

was nice, but you never knew when she would smack her son or 

pull his hair. 

9 

Once the lady pushed me up the stairs and she was really mad 

at me. When my mom said something to her about pushing me up 

the stairs, she told my mom to leave. 

Another friend that my mom grew up with heard about our situation and invited us to stay with him. It turned out that he had 

mental problems and was a big liar. 

My mom tried to get us into shelters for families who have been 

abused but we couldn’t because of me. They don’t allow older boys 

like me to stay there. 

We were in one shelter for a little while, but had a time limit, 

so they moved us into a hotel. It was really scary because drug 

dealers stood around outside. Sometimes men would knock on our 

door, and when my mom would open it they would just look at us 

and my mom would try to not say anything to make them mad and 

tell them they had the wrong door. 

I didn’t want anyone to know where I was staying. When the 

school bus dropped us off, I waited until no one would see me, and 

I then went to the hotel. 

Another friend said he had a spare room we could stay in, but 

then his wife got mad, and we got kicked out. So we went and 

stayed at a motel for one night. It was better not being around all 

the fighting, but we couldn’t afford to stay there longer than one 

night. 

We had to change States to find a place to stay. My mom’s friend 

invited us to stay with her until we could find a place. It was really 

hard having to start all over again. 

We had to leave there, too, and stay in another hotel for one 

night, and then we got into Safe Harbor. 

Staying with other people was tough. It was really hard adjusting to families’ different lifestyles. If we crossed the line for some 

reason—boom—we were out. 

The hardest part of having to move so much and stay in so many 

different places was we lost everything. It affected my attitude because I lost all my friends over and over again. I was afraid to get 

close to people because I knew we had to move again. 

I struggled in school and came to school very exhausted because 

of having to sleep in different places, constantly moving and not 

being able to rest. I know my mom was thinking that we should 

maybe go back to my dad. I missed him a lot, but I knew he hadn’t 

gotten any help, and I was too afraid that he would hurt us again. 

Now we are at least in one place, and I don’t think we will get 

kicked out, at least not for just nothing. Moving around and staying with so many different people was really hard. 

I hope that now that we are at Safe Harbor, we will be able to 

stay for a while and find a place to live. Thanks for listening to 

what homelessness is like for me and my mom. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Khan can be found on page 85 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Brittany Koon, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

10 

STATEMENT OF BRITTANY AMBER KOON, PFC, FT. HOOD, 

TEXAS 

Ms. KOON. Good morning. Thank you, all the members of the 

subcommittee, for this opportunity to share my story today. 

My name is Brittany Amber Koon. I was born in a little house 

in Upper Arlington, Ohio, that had been in the family for years 

until it was foreclosed on in the middle of my 7th grade year. 

My mom, my sister, my brothers, and I doubled up with a neighbor. That was the beginning of a long, scary journey of instability 

and lonely transition that would lead me to foster care and homelessness, but finally success as a proud member of the United 

States Army. 

After aging out of foster care during my senior year of high 

school, I became homeless again. I had a scholarship to college but 

I lived in my car and on the couches of some relatives and friends 

for 2 months before college. Housing solutions just didn’t really 

exist. 

I made it through my first year of college, but as the year ended, 

I was again without housing. I crashed out on the couch of a girl 

I met at a party. After a couple of weeks, I was buying all the groceries, and because she did not have a car and I did, I was expected 

to drive her and her kids wherever they needed to go. I was not 

able to find other housing, so I felt stuck. 

This happens a lot when you are doubled up. You feel indebted 

to the people who are letting you stay, but then you are taken advantage of by them. They took my money and then told me I had 

to leave. 

I started hanging out at bars and nightclubs so I would have 

somewhere to go at night. I know it sounds dangerous, but I was 

making friends at the bars because they would let me come back 

and crash on their couches. 

At the time, I thought staying with these people was better than 

my car, but it really wasn’t. In my car, I was in control and didn’t 

have to worry about what would happen to me, or people who 

would try and touch me when I was asleep. I wondered why there 

was no help. 

As it got colder, I asked Angela, from the Youth Empowerment 

Program, to take me to a shelter, but there was a waiting list. I 

decided to move in with my boyfriend. Then, my relationship went 

bad and he kicked me out. I was so stressed that I had to quit 

school for the second time. 

That is when I talked to Angela’s husband about going into the 

military. I decided to go active duty so I would have training and 

a stable place to live. 

I am now stationed at Fort Hood, Texas. Even though I feel more 

stable and supported than I have in years, I still don’t have a place 

to call home. I am coming back from Fort Hood for the holidays, 

but I still have to couchsurf while I am home. 

I feel that making youth document their homelessness through 

the people they couchsurf with will only create problems and stress 

on us and more frustration with the system. None of the people I 

lived with would have been willing to document that I was living 

there. They would have been suspicious and afraid of getting in 

trouble. Also, I didn’t know many of them well enough to ask them. 

11 

I believe that allowing homeless education liaisons and others to 

help youth document their situation would be best because it would 

be easier for a youth to trust adults we know. Most youth who are 

doubled up are getting used. This is true of too many youth. In 

fact, Danielle Jinx and Shannon McDaniels are here to support me 

today, because they also have been in my situation. 

It is very important for HUD to count doubled-up youth, because 

I don’t think people realize how hard it is for them. If we were not 

counted, we could never be served effectively. 

Recognizing that there are limited resources, I would suggest increasing resources to those programs so that every youth could be 

housed. But ignoring us has only reinforced our knowledge that our 

community has abandoned us and that nobody cares about us. 

Like me, you have chosen to serve your country—you here in 

Washington, and me in the field. Just as you have faith in me that 

I will be out there protecting you, it is my hope that you will use 

your power here to protect youth like me. 

Thank you again for this opportunity. 

[The prepared statement of PFC Koon can be found on page 88 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Next, Brooklyn Pastor is recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF BROOKLYN PASTOR, 7TH GRADER, WILLIAM 

PACA MIDDLE SCHOOL, SHIRLEY, NEW YORK 

Ms. PASTOR. Hello. My name is Brooklyn Pastor. I am 12 years 

old and I am in 7th grade at William Paca Middle School in Shirley, New York. I am here today with my mom, and also Ms. Benjamin, from Parent-Child Home Program. 

I have lived in over 16 places in my life—6 shelters, 4 times doubled up with many different people, and we had our own house 6 

times. We had to go to emergency motel rooms many other times 

in between shelters and houses. 

I really hate moving from place to place. It is so hard because 

you get to know people and then you have to move. It made my 

life hard. 

When we lived with other people, they were not nice to us. We 

couldn’t ask them for anything. They were mostly mad that we 

were there and did not want anyone else to know, especially their 

landlord. 

They would never let us stay where we were. My mom couldn’t 

tell anyone where we lived or for how long. It was like being invisible. 

The hardest thing about living with other people is watching my 

mom cry because the people would yell at my mom because we did 

not have any money and they would yell at us to get out. It hurt 

me to see my mom hurting and I couldn’t do much to help her. 

I am always trying to help my younger sister and brother to decrease my mom’s load when I come home from school. Mom has 

enough to do so I try to play with them and keep them happy. So 

I do that at home and maybe not so much homework. 

I do not have time to socialize because I am looking to see if I 

can help Mom. I follow her around to try to keep things going. If 

12 

my mom is late for a bill, I worry and get afraid, and do not ask 

her for anything until it is paid. 

It is especially hard for my 2-year-old brother because he does 

not understand why Mom is always crying. He cries, too. He asks 

her not to cry. 

He wants Mom’s attention. She has to go out a lot to work and 

to appointments. He has to stay with different people. 

He has no daycare or preschool because there is no money for 

that transportation and no openings near us. There are no services 

for his age except the Parent-Child Home Program that comes to 

us. 

We are in a house now, but things are not perfect. We had a hurricane and the roof caved in, and my ceiling is still hanging, and 

it is not fixed, and the landlady yells at my mom. 

I do not want to ever be homeless again. I think the only way 

we will never be homeless again is if my mom got a different job— 

a real job in an office or something. She works in a restaurant, and 

I hope that will happen soon. 

This year, my mom got her high school diploma and a driver’s 

license and she is going to school in a few weeks to be a certified 

nurse’s assistant. 

The thing that helped us go all through this is being close to my 

mom, and being close to God. Mom does good things for people 

even when we don’t have enough money, and I know God will help 

us. 

I would like people to know that it is different going through this 

than just hearing about it. You never experienced being homeless. 

It is worse than hearing about it or watching a movie about it. You 

are in it. There are a lot of kids going through it. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Pastor can be found on page 92 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Destiny Raynor, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF DESTINY RAYNOR, 9TH GRADER, WINTER 

SPRINGS HIGH SCHOOL, SANFORD, FLORIDA 

Ms. RAYNOR. Hello. My name is Destiny Rayner, and I am a 

freshman at Winter Springs High School in Florida. I am here 

today with my father and my sister, Kimberly. I would also like to 

introduce you to the Metzger family—Austin, Arielle, and their 

dad. They were homeless in central Florida, too. 

My parents used to have this thrift shop and a beauty store. We 

lost our housing when the economy got really bad and we had to 

close all of our stores. Neither of my parents had a job, and they 

just kept looking for several months. 

That summer, the power and water got shut off. We didn’t have 

electricity or water for 6 months. We had to eat at the gas station 

at the corner because they had a microwave. 

The toilet smelled really bad because we couldn’t flush because 

the water was shut off. We had to bring buckets to a local church 

to fill with water for the toilet bowl. 

My parents didn’t want to go to a shelter because the shelter 

split families up and we wanted to be together. So after we lost our 

13 

home, we ended up moving in with my grandmother. This was horrible. It is a three-bedroom mobile home but only two rooms were 

usable. 

My mother, sister, and I slept in one bed. My dad slept on a 

small couch and my brother slept on a lazy boy chair. We stayed 

there for 2 to 3 weeks until we couldn’t take it anymore. My grandmother was also dying of cancer so it was really hard. 

With our last bit of money, we moved into a motel. The school 

district homeless coordinator, Beth, met us after 1 week and started to help us. 

My parents pay the bill if my dad is able to make money at the 

day work labor place. When we don’t have the money, Beth pays 

from her donations from her program. Beth is here today, too. 

The hardest thing about living in a motel is being on a bus and 

watching all of the other kids getting off knowing that they are 

going to their own home and I am going back to a one-room motel. 

It makes me feel really upset. 

Prior to planning the trip to Washington, I only told one friend, 

Jona, about the situation. I was afraid that people would talk badly 

about the situation and we would be called poor and homeless. 

My teacher announced in class that we should all donate and 

help the homeless kids because they are poor. She was talking 

about me. 

I know how bad it feels. It is just that any minute, you can be 

kicked out of the motel if you do something wrong or if your parents don’t have the money. You just can’t go to your own room and 

have your own privacy. 

I was doing really well in school—As and Bs. But since this has 

happened, three of my grades dropped to Cs and Ds. I am now 

working on bringing them back up. 

Once the school program, Families in Transition, started helping, 

it made it easier and took a little weight off my shoulders. Now, 

I feel that I can focus more on my school rather than the home situation. 

It is still hard for me and my family. Everyone is just too loud 

in one room and my brother always gets a headache. He gets so 

much more aggravated than he used to get. 

My parents have no personal bonding time with each other anymore. They are always busy making sure that we are taken care 

of and they have enough money to pay for the room. 

I have seen my dad cry in the last month more than I have in 

my entire life. When I see my father cry it hurts me a lot because 

I know he is trying his best and it just still isn’t good enough. 

It makes me feel scared that we will never get out. Last week, 

he went the whole week without getting a job and it was horrible. 

The Families in Transition program from the school was the biggest relief because they helped with so much. They helped set up 

a school bus so my parents wouldn’t have to stress about getting 

us to school. 

They helped sign us up for a free breakfast and lunch program 

and sign us up for a backpack program so every Thursday, our 

backpacks are filled with food. Our food stamps didn’t cover the 

whole month and we would always run out the last 2 weeks. 

14 

There are some programs that provide housing help, but we don’t 

qualify because my dad doesn’t have a regular job and he doesn’t 

make enough money. When Beth pays for the motel room, we are 

considered homeless; when my dad pays for the hotel room, we are 

not considered homeless. That doesn’t make any sense to me. It is 

the same hotel room and it is hard to live in when you are young, 

no matter who pays. 

What we really need is a home of our own, and since two nights 

ago, that has now happened. Because of the ‘‘60 Minutes’’ segment, 

our community came together and provided my family with a 

home. 

I now know that my family’s basic needs will be met, and I can 

concentrate on what is really important—my education. My prayer 

for today is that not only has our community stepped up for us, but 

now for our government to stand up for us as well and help all of 

the other homeless children so that they, too, can get a home, as 

well. 

Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Raynor can be found on page 105 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much for your testimony. 

We have been joined by another Member from Illinois, Danny 

Davis. I ask unanimous consent that he be allowed to participate. 

Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Starnica Rodgers, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF STARNICA RODGERS, TRUMAN COLLEGE, 

CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 

Ms. RODGERS. Good morning, everyone. My name is Starnica 

Rodgers. I am 18 years old, and I have lived in Chicago my whole 

life. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify here today. It is a true 

honor. 

Currently, I am a student at Truman College. I just finished my 

first semester and received one A and two Bs. I am also 8 months 

pregnant and I am expecting my baby boy next month. Don’t 

worry; I checked with my doctor and she said it is safe to fly. 

Right now, I am staying at a shelter for parenting teens on Chicago’s north side. It is run by the Night Ministry. 

When I first got there, I was very nervous. I was worried about 

being in a new environment. But now, I realize that everyone is 

there for the same reason: We are all homeless and alone. 

Since I have been there, I have found support from other girls 

and staff. They helped me with my homework and found clothes for 

me to wear to school and they are helping me find a more permanent place to live. 

I have been homeless on and off for my whole life. My mom was 

a single mother with four kids and has worked minimum wage jobs 

her whole life. I remember watching my mother struggle to pay the 

rent and us having to go to a shelter when I was five. I want my 

life to be better. 

As I grew up, my mom and I started getting into a lot of fights. 

She was verbally abusive to me and sometimes physically abusive. 

15 

By the time I was 16, I knew I had to leave for my own safety. 

There I was, 16 and homeless. 

I went from house to house, staying for 2 or 3 days at other family members’ houses, not knowing where I was going to end up. 

Throughout the struggles, I was dedicated to graduating from high 

school, no matter what. 

I worked with the McKinney-Vento counselor so I could get free 

transportation to get to school. I graduated this year and I am very 

proud of that accomplishment. 

I am now in college. I am on the drama team and I was elected 

to student senate. I will graduate college no matter how hard the 

obstacles may be. 

With a college degree, I know that I will be able to get a goodpaying job with a guaranteed salary. My dream is to be a social 

worker and help people who are going through the same struggles 

I have faced. 

Right now, I am working into a transitional program also run by 

the Night Ministry. The program receives Federal HUD funding, 

but there are not enough housing programs in Chicago for people 

like me. Before I got into the program, I had to call over 25 different programs but they were all full or had a wait list. 

I have had to struggle my whole life to find a place to call home, 

so I hope that you understand how important stable housing is to 

a young person. Without these programs, I know that I wouldn’t 

be able to attend college. I would be too busy worrying about where 

I was going to stay every night. 

Thank you for listening to my story, and thank you for the supporting programs that are helping me. I hope that you will think 

about the 10,000 youth in Chicago who are homeless or the teens 

in your town who don’t know where they are going to sleep tonight. 

Our country should give more money to programs that help homeless youth so we can be able to break the cycle of homelessness and 

become successful adults. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Rodgers can be found on page 

110 of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

And thank you all for your compelling testimony. I don’t know, 

this must be your first time testifying, but I think you have a career. That was very, very, very good. 

We are now going to have questions from the Members of Congress, and we will each take 5 minutes to ask questions. And I will 

yield myself 5 minutes to start. 

Brandon, if I may call you Brandon, you said you were concerned 

about HUD’s documentation requirements, and I think you said 

that in order for you to be successful in accessing housing services, 

you had to show that you would be homeless for a long time. Does 

that kind of— 

Mr. DUNLAP. Sixty days, if I am not mistaken, or 14 days in 

more than one place. And that would be really inconvenient to put 

on the person I was staying with. I didn’t want to overstay my welcome; I was already asking a huge favor, and to ask for documentation I think would be—I didn’t want to jeopardize my situation. 

16 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. It seems, too, that certainly you didn’t 

want to be homeless for a long time, so that it defeats the purpose 

of— 

Mr. DUNLAP. Yes. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. —HUD helping. 

And then you also said that in school—schools that really recognized the homeless and provided the services. 

Mr. DUNLAP. Yes. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. And I think that has been mentioned a 

couple of times that—we are trying to not—and we have already 

worked with the schools and the definition there. We are really trying to move this into Health and Human Services and HUD to provide such help. Why do the schools seem to have the ability to help 

the homeless? 

Mr. DUNLAP. At school, the teachers would be able to recognize 

certain patterns in students, and no representative from HUD 

knew my situation, and I wouldn’t tell them if they asked because 

I didn’t know this person. But at school, I am familiar with the 

teacher; if the teacher asked and showed genuine concern, I would 

share information. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

And then, Rumi Khan, you testified about finding Safe Harbor. 

Could you tell us a little bit more about Safe Harbor, how you got 

into that, and what it means to you? 

Mr. KHAN. Me and my mom came in and asked for a place to 

stay and they gave—first we were in the emergency side for a little 

while and— 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Who is they? 

Mr. KHAN. Safe Harbor. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Okay. 

Mr. KHAN. Safe Harbor gave us a place to stay which is on the 

emergency side, and we stayed there for a little while and then 

they got to move us up to the transitional side, and it is like a little 

apartment. And we have our own space, we have our own room, 

and it feels very safe. 

And sometimes, I don’t feel homeless because I do have a roof 

over my head. And me and my mom are together in that room, and 

we have neighbors and we have friends in there. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. How did you find Safe Harbor? Was it 

recommended to you by somebody? 

Mr. KHAN. Yes. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. That was fortunate, wasn’t it? 

Mr. KHAN. Yes. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

And, Brooklyn, you said that your mother now is going to school 

to get a diploma and a driver’s license and then is going to be 

trained to be a nursing assistant. Who helped your mother during 

the hardest times and how did she figure out how to do that as 

well as take care of you? 

Ms. PASTOR. I would say Ms. Benjamin helped us the most 

through everything. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. What kind of help do you wish your mother had when you were moving between places? 

17 

Ms. PASTOR. I don’t know. I just wish—because she was always 

there for everyone else, even when we didn’t have it, and I wish 

that they would have done the same for her when we needed help, 

but they didn’t. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

And then, Brittany Koon, you certainly had some bad experiences, and—but it seems like with—you are wearing the uniform, 

that things have really straightened out for you? 

Ms. KOON. Yes— 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. In your statement, you said that ignoring 

the youth has only reinforced your knowledge that your community 

abandoned you and that nobody cared about you. Do you still, as 

you have moved on, feel that way, that— 

Ms. KOON. Honestly, yes, I do. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Okay. Thank you. 

My time has expired and, Mr. Cleaver, you are recognized for 5 

minutes. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

I really have reservations about asking you a lot of questions, or 

any, for that matter. In my State of Missouri, we have approximately 24,000 homeless children, which means, to me at least, 

there is a certain level of invisibility, and some of you kind of mentioned it, and that is you try to stay under the radar, you don’t 

want to be noticed. 

I am wondering, as you have struggled, have you met other 

young people who were in your same situation, and if so, how did— 

was there any attempt to measure each other’s situation to see if 

there was a place or a way to get help? Did any of you meet others 

in your same situation? 

Which even promotes the whole issue that it is probably more severe that—this invisibility. They wouldn’t want anybody to notice, 

to be accurate. 

Ms. Rodgers? 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. I am actually in a program now where there 

are several other girls in my situation, and we all connected and 

asked, ‘‘Okay, how did you get here and did you call other resources that maybe turned you down or that we can get in, because 

we all are in the same situation?’’ Well, we are. We are either pregnant or have a child. 

So the programs that they were into we just asked, ‘‘Okay, well 

could we get into those programs?’’ and the answer was always no. 

This is probably the best way for us to go is to stay in this shelter. 

Mr. CLEAVER. One final question: My wife and I took in a young 

man and kept him and actually sent him off to school with our 

kids—our twin boys. He was later killed in a ValuJet crash in the 

Everglades. But the one thing that we discovered was that he had 

never been to a dentist. He had never been to a doctor, for some 

obvious reasons. 

And I don’t need any details, but I am wondering how much 

health care you have had—going to dentists or getting checkups. 

Anybody? 

Mr. DUNLAP. As a child, I was well taken care of, but as the 

years went on, like in high school, I don’t recall ever really going 

18 

to the doctor. It is a question of how did I get past the physicals 

now, so I am just—no doctor visits, no dentists, nothing. 

Mr. KHAN. I have, also. I go to the doctor or the dentist, too, all 

the time. 

Ms. KOON. I didn’t have a lot of health care, but I had to go do 

a lot of work at the dentist in order to get into the Army. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you very much— 

I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Stivers, is recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. STIVERS. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman. 

I think many of you mentioned in your testimony—I think Brandon, and Brittany, and I think Destiny all talked a little bit 

about—or maybe it was Brooklyn—about grades, and how your 

housing situation really impacted your schooling and your ability 

to continue your education. Can you just help me understand—obviously those businesses are linked, and it then can change the 

course of your life in a negative way because you don’t get the education you are pursuing or you don’t get as good an education. 

Do any of you want to expound upon the—sort of the impact and 

the connection between your experience when you were homeless 

and—or having to jump between home and home, and what it 

meant to your schoolwork and your ability to ready yourself for 

your future? 

Mr. DUNLAP. It was very difficult to study, given the long distance traveling, and maybe even traveling again after I traveled 

the initial long distance. There was no real time for homework. It 

was a lot of planning and, okay, it is late now; I have to go to sleep 

because class starts at 8:00. 

Mr. KHAN. It is hard for me because I lack sleep, too, and when 

we were moving, it was very stressing and tiring, and staying up 

late was affecting my schoolwork because I couldn’t focus in school, 

and my grades have gone down a little bit, but I am trying to go 

to sleep earlier and bring my grades up so I can get As. 

Ms. KOON. It affects you that when you are sitting in class you 

are sitting there worried about where are you going to go after, 

where are you going to eat, how are you going to get your homework done? Half the time, you don’t have Internet access, or if you 

break a pencil, you might not have a pencil sharpener to complete 

it. 

And then, you are worried about all night, well, am I going to 

be safe? What is going to happen to me? 

Do I have the gas—for me, I was living in my car—do I have the 

gas to get back to school tomorrow? Should I sleep in the school 

parking lot and let the cops bang on my door again and wake me 

up? You are always worried about something. 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. I can speak on that. 

In high school, it was harder than college because there were 

people I grew up with and it was hard to let them know that I was 

homeless or that I needed help. But in college, I got more help at 

the shelter that I am living in, like I got more help with my essays. 

In high school English, I had to do a lot of papers, and I didn’t 

have a lot of the equipment that I needed to do the papers with. 

19 

And the after-school programs that I was involved in didn’t help 

me either. 

But going on into college, I got a lot more support at the shelter 

I have lived in. But when I was homeless, my grades were maybe 

Ds and Cs. I was barely passing. And in high school, I got As and 

Bs for my first semester. 

Mr. STIVERS. I think many of you talked about the HUD requirement on documentation, and I think Chairwoman Biggert had 

asked the question before. But obviously that came up in multiple 

testimonies from you, and I think that is something we need to 

take a pretty serious look at because obviously, I think Brandon 

did a good job of explaining how it created a hassle on the people 

who were trying to help you, and a lot of you brought it up, and 

so I know that is something else we need to take a serious look at. 

Are there any other specific issues that you think we should take 

a serious look at? I think the chairwoman’s bill addresses a lot of 

things that will help homeless youth. Does anybody have anything 

other things that—like that that this—through the system that you 

experienced? 

Ms. RAYNOR. When you live in a motel, if you can pay for it at 

least for 14 days, you are not categorized as homeless, but it is still 

not your home. Because, as I mentioned, at any moment you can 

be kicked out for anything. 

We had a lot of help from Beth. Like, when someone else paid 

for it for you, you were homeless. If you can pay for it for 14 days, 

you are not. 

But it is the same room either way it goes. It is not your home. 

You don’t have your own privacy. You are all crammed in one little 

room. 

That makes no sense because it is the same place. And I think 

that should be changed. 

Mr. STIVERS. Great. Thank you. 

And I appreciate your time. It looks like my time has almost expired. I really appreciate you sharing your stories and experiences 

with us, and we are going to work hard to do the best we can to 

help. So thank you so much. 

And I yield back. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Stivers. 

Ms. Waters, do you have any questions? 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much— 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. You are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Ms. WATERS. Yes. 

I would like to first thank all of our young panelists who are here 

today for coming to share your stories so that we can be better informed and know how best to use our public policy influence to do 

much better than we are doing about homelessness. I would like 

to share with you that recently I decided to walk through the systems in Los Angeles, and what I saw disturbs me greatly. I do not 

think the systems are working the way we think they are from up 

here. 

And for the last 3 or 4 weeks, I have been trying to get a family—a mother with three children—placed in transitional to permanent housing, and I have not been able to do it. So I have gone to 

the big agency, called the oversight agency, and I am confronting 

20 

them on how the systems are not working. And I think that the 

members of this committee, Mrs. Biggert—under her leadership— 

we should all not just visit shelters and sit down and talk with people who are supposed to be implementing what we think is public 

policy; we have to walk through the system with people who require shelters and are—transitional housing or permanent housing. 

I discovered that this mother with three children was being 

asked for all kinds of documentation before she could get into this 

shelter. They wanted the birth certificates of all the kids, which is 

unreasonable, and some other documentation that they were asking for. 

So let me just say to you that a priority on my list of how I spend 

my time will be to try and correct some of these problems. Other 

things I discovered: In one shelter, they had to be in by 4:00 or 

they lost their bed, and this person had stayed out till 5:00 so I 

had to put them in my car and take them back and tell them that 

I wanted them to be sheltered despite the fact he had missed by 

1 hour. And it goes on, and on, and on, so I know what you are 

going through. 

One question I may follow up on from Mr. Stivers, and that is, 

I am very concerned about while you are trying to get into permanent housing, your families—what is happening with your education and school? Because long distances—many of our homeless 

young people are long distances from the schools. 

Would it help if somehow we could put something in the system 

that would require tutoring at every shelter where there are children? What kind of assistance could help while your families are 

working on getting permanent housing? Do you have any suggestions what we could do to help with—how we could give support 

so you don’t fall behind and you don’t get bad grades simply because you can’t sleep at night because you are in a situation where 

you don’t feel safe, or there is noise? 

Would tutoring help, with someone on the site, or places where 

you have numbers of young people? Would it help to try and get 

some assistance from the school district to have teachers or a 

teacher on site? Would any of that help? 

Mr. DUNLAP. I definitely feel tutoring would help a lot. And I 

also feel that someone trained to deal with children in high-stress 

situations would also help. 

Mr. KHAN. I think transportation to school would help a lot because I ride my bike to school and it is very tiring, and I get to 

school very exhausted and my legs hurt. 

Ms. WATERS. How many schools have you gone to, or stories 

about young people who may have gone to three, four, five schools 

in a year? Have you heard that? 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. I actually tried to stay at the same school, 

which I shouldn’t have done because I was—I missed so many days 

going from house to house. I was going from the south side and my 

school was on the west side. And I should have transferred schools 

but I knew that I wasn’t going to be on the south side for long. 

So either way, it was hard. 

Ms. WATERS. So if you had a teacher or a tutor who was in the 

area of the shelter who could keep you on track until you could get 

21 

in a permanent place so you wouldn’t lose time or lose grades, 

would that help? 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. That would help a lot. And it would especially 

help high school students. Because I know the classes that are 

mandatory, those are the classes that I need help with the most. 

Those are the classes that the tutor can help me with. 

Ms. WATERS. So if there was a teacher who was helping you and 

then could help you transfer your work to your permanent school 

once you got permanent placement and be like an advocate and a 

support person, that would be helpful? 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much. I yield back. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

Let me just say that the first thing that we did work on in this 

whole issue was the education, and to make sure—this was a—it 

was put into No Child Left Behind and it was to makes sure that 

no homeless child was turned away from school. And we didn’t 

have to have the records; you didn’t have to have your grades and 

whatever, but you could be enrolled immediately in school where 

you were homeless living at the time or where you had been in 

school. And I know that it took us, then, several years—and this 

was under Mr. Miller’s committee at the time, and— 

Ms. WATERS. Would the gentlelady yield for a second? 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. —and just was that—go ahead— 

Ms. WATERS. I just wanted to add to that, that is absolutely very 

helpful, but the real problem I am running into is the number of 

schools— 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Right. 

Ms. WATERS. —that the young people end up going to while they 

are homeless, and they lose credit. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. And having to switch so often, and you 

are absolutely right. But we did add transportation, too. I think 

that took us a long time to get that in. 

But I think you are absolutely right that we should really look 

at maybe the tutor or the teacher actually at these shelters. That 

would be a big help. And that would go through the HUD. But that 

is something we should look at for this bill, so I appreciate it. 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Mr. Green, from Texas, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. 

I also would like to thank the ranking member, Mr. Gutierrez, 

for his efforts in these areas, as well. 

I am very concerned about your indications that you were homeless but you did not want anyone to know that you were homeless. 

And I understand why. You have all spoken quite well, and let me 

compliment you. It took a lot of courage to do it as well as you 

have, and I thank you for the courage that you have exhibited 

today. 

But you all said that you didn’t want people to know. Was there, 

on any of the school campuses, a counselor or someone who had 

some degree of responsibility to work with you and help you from 

the school campus? Did anyone have a counselor or anyone on the 

campus that you were able to work with? 

22 

Mr. DUNLAP. There were counselors on staff at school but I didn’t 

speak to them until I had a connection from someone who didn’t 

work at the school. 

Mr. GREEN. Until you had—did you say a connection? 

Mr. DUNLAP. Yes. 

Mr. GREEN. Would you— 

Mr. DUNLAP. Rhonda Perwin—she helped me get scholarships 

and introduced me to the Coalition for the Homeless, and from that 

point on, that is when I talked to the counselor, Mr. Murphy, at 

my high school, but he didn’t help any. 

Mr. GREEN. Was there any outreach? Did you feel that you were 

in an environment wherein you could go to someone at the school 

and say, ‘‘We need help. We have this situation and I just want to 

talk to someone?’’ Did any of you feel that there was any avenue, 

any means available for you to do this? 

Mr. DUNLAP. I personally didn’t reach out because I didn’t want 

any authorities going after my parents. 

Mr. GREEN. Yes, Ms. Raynor? 

Ms. RAYNOR. I didn’t have on-school help, but we had a coordinator named Beth. She is actually here today. She is helping with 

a few hundred families, helping them with food, places to stay, 

making sure they keep up with their education. 

If it wasn’t for her, I would still be staying in a motel, and my 

grades would still be horrible. At my school, we don’t have anyone 

on campus, really, who helps, but there are a lot of kids there. 

We had a program that everyone got to come and have a free 

lunch and stuff. We had hundreds and hundreds of kids there who 

came because they were homeless, and there is nothing—there is 

no one at the school to help, but most of the kids don’t want everyone to know. There is no point in telling people if nothing is going 

to happen. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Ms. Raynor. 

Ms. Rodgers? 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. I actually didn’t feel comfortable telling everybody that I was homeless because I knew that they were going 

to look at me differently. I was afraid that it would get out in the 

whole school and that I was going to have to transfer because the 

people were looking down on me. 

But I did talk to this one lady who came up to the school and 

who got me into the McKinney-Vento program that gave me bus 

cards so I can get to school, and they noticed that I was homeless 

because of my attendance, and I was coming in late—like, I was 

doing all the work and I was getting good grades doing the work, 

but my attendance was affecting my grades. So they actually came 

to me, but I didn’t actually tell anyone my whole story. 

Mr. GREEN. Yes, Ms. Koon? 

Ms. KOON. It is not always that you don’t want to share, because 

I am very open when it comes to sharing with people. It is just that 

society puts a label on you. 

Like, I was talking to people in my unit about—they asked me 

what I was going to D.C. for, and I let them know, and they 

laughed at me. They said, ‘‘You can’t get into the Army if you are 

that way,’’ or, ‘‘Why are you going to this expensive college and you 

23 

are living in your car? That is not possible.’’ People just label it 

based on what you are doing with what you have. 

Mr. GREEN. Mr. Khan? 

Mr. KHAN. Also, I haven’t gone to my friends because I am embarrassed and I am afraid that they are going to make fun of me 

because they have everything and I am homeless, and it is kind of 

embarrassing for me. And I don’t go to the counselor at my school, 

but me and my mom went to a counselor and she was supposed to 

come to the school every other week or something, and she has 

never come, and I can’t share with anybody but my mom. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you very much. 

Madam Chairwoman, I just think I will close with this: We all 

have a duty to do all that we can, even if it is not enough. We have 

a duty to all that we can, and from my perch, I am convinced that 

we are not doing enough. There is more that we can do that we 

are not doing. 

And while we have addressed the young people who have spoken, 

I do want to thank the adults who came today who are with them, 

whether you are a mother, father, brother, significant other—whatever. I just want to thank you for the role that you are playing in 

helping us to give these young people a brighter future. 

And with this, I will yield back the balance of my time. Thank 

you. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Green. 

And let me just say that we are very happy that you have told 

us, because—and not been afraid to come to the U.S. Congress, because things are going to change, and it is—we are working on this 

bill, and just giving us a lot more to put into it. So we really appreciate that. 

Mr. Miller, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. GEORGE MILLER OF CALIFORNIA. Thank you very much, 

Madam Chairwoman. 

Let me certainly begin by thanking you so much for coming and 

sharing your stories with us, as Members of Congress. The legislation that is under consideration this morning is really designed to 

address many of the things that you have mentioned, and some 

parts of the Federal law already do that, and other parts are inconsistent with that, and we are trying to remove those barriers so it 

would be easier for you, and your parents, and the counselors to 

access the services that you need while you and your family members are homeless. 

So that is our goal is to address exactly what you have told us 

in person here today. But I think it is very important that we hear 

from you. 

And I want to tell you that you just—all of you just exhibit a remarkable strength and maturity beyond your years, and I recognize that adverse situations, such as being homeless, can make you 

grow up very fast, and that is unfortunate. But you have obviously 

responded to help other members of your family in this same situation, and it is an exhibition of strength and character that sometimes we don’t always see. 

But also, I want to just commend you for your own achievements 

in school, as difficult as it has been. There have been ups and 

downs, but you have persevered, and you should really feel very 

24 

good about yourselves, and certainly we feel very good about your 

willingness to come here and to publicly demonstrate to us the 

need for this legislation so that it would be easier for you and your 

families and for other homeless children. 

On the other side of this ledger, on the education side, we have 

put many provisions into the law to try to reduce the barriers and 

the obstacles to you getting services in schools—transportation and 

counselors being required. But again, when they go to some of the 

housing agencies, they find that there are barriers, and we are trying to reduce those. So hopefully, your testimony will turn out to 

be very valuable to us and very helpful to us. 

And you look back and you will remember this, when you made 

this kind of contribution on behalf of others who will be homeless 

in the future. So I hope you take that away from this hearing. And 

thank you again so very, very much. 

And obviously, our very best wishes for you and your families 

and that circumstances will change for the better for all you. 

Thank you. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. The gentleman yields back. 

Mr. GEORGE MILLER OF CALIFORNIA. Yes, I yield back. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Davis, is 

recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. And let 

me first of all thank you not only for calling this hearing, but certainly for giving me the opportunity to participate, though I am not 

a member of this particular committee. 

I also want to commend you. We get an opportunity to ride back 

and forth together on the airplane, and sometimes we even get 

seated in the same row. And I want to commend you for your passion and your sensitivity to this issue. I know of it firsthand because we do get a chance to talk, and I am aware of how high you 

hold this as a priority and the work that you have done on it over 

the years, so I thank you very much for that. 

I also want to commend Representative Miller for the leadership 

he has provided as chairman and now ranking member of the Education Committee, trying to make sure that we merge together the 

housing and social service needs with the educational needs of students who are homeless. 

I want to commend all of the witnesses. I have been totally intrigued by your testimony and I appreciate your level of understanding and recognition of where our country not only is, but 

where we need to go. 

Particularly do I want to welcome Brandon and Starnica, since 

both of them are from Chicago, where I come from. And I think the 

Night Ministry, which I am very familiar with, is one of the most 

innovative and creative programs I have ever heard about, read 

about, participated with, or observed what it does not only with 

homeless youth but with other homeless individuals, and we are 

fortunate that the Coalition for the Homeless has been one of the 

most effective advocacy groups for homeless persons in this country, at least for the last 20 years. And so, I would commend them. 

Brandon, I didn’t get a chance to hear your testimony, unfortunately. Are you associated with a program, or what program are 

you connected with? 

25 

Mr. DUNLAP. I am here with the Coalition for the Homeless. 

Mr. DAVIS. All right. So you are connected with the Coalition for 

the Homeless, and I am sure you can verify what I said about 

them, because not only do they pinpoint the need for services, but 

they are so inspirational in terms of their approaches to doing it. 

Starnica, where do you get your health care? 

Ms. RODGERS. Iriteen, which was connected with the Night Ministry. The recommended me over to Iriteen. 

Mr. DAVIS. Is it a clinic? Is it a— 

Ms. RODGERS. It is the clinic. 

Mr. DAVIS. Is it a school-based clinic? 

Ms. RODGERS. No. 

Mr. DAVIS. It is not a school-based clinic but is it a community 

health center clinic? 

Ms. RODGERS. It is for teens, so it is a teen clinic. 

Mr. DAVIS. It is a teen health clinic, which I think also do fantastic work. So I am just delighted that you all came to share with 

us. 

Chicago is somewhat fortunate. Truman College, which you attend, which is a part of the city college system, does, in fact, have 

a level of sensitivity to all kinds of students. It is also a college that 

is a united nations of students, and so they pay particular attention to the needs of young people, the needs of their students, and 

they are located in an area where I think individuals from every 

race, creed, nationality, color—everybody lives in Uptown, in the 

area where it is located, and I think that also helps. 

The Chicago Board of Education has tried—I happen to be very 

much aware of what they do because the woman who directed their 

homeless program for several years happened to have been my sister’s classmate in college, so I became very familiar with them. The 

one question that I wanted to ask is, do any of you know other 

homeless young people who have not been able to connect with any 

program? 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. 

Mr. DAVIS. So you know young people who are not connected to 

a program or a service? 

Ms. RODGERS. Yes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Brandon, do you know young people who—a few. A 

few. 

And that kind of projects and indicates that we not only need the 

legislation, but we also need to make sure that there is adequate 

funding for the programs that are authorized. 

So again, I thank you all for coming, for your participation. 

And I thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for your diligence and for 

the opportunity to be here. And I yield back. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

We have a second panel, but we—I have just one question, so if 

people would like the second round, if you could keep it to 2 minutes so that we could have the second panel. 

But I just want to come back to—Rumi, you talked about the fact 

that you and your mother were turned away from a shelter because 

you were an older boy. 

26 

And I think, Destiny, you talked about the fact that going to a 

shelter, you were afraid that the family would be split up. So I 

wanted to come back to that. 

If you two could explain a little bit more. I know that this has 

been true, and I have heard this before, that they don’t want to 

take in older boys. But what happened, and did this happen in 

other places, too? 

Mr. KHAN. It has happened in—like in Safe Harbor, they don’t 

accept older males or single males. I guess it is because they don’t 

want to start relationships in a shelter. That is my best guess. 

And, yes, that has happened to me, and I am not sure why it has 

happened. So, yes, I— 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. That is something we will have to look 

into, then. Thank you. 

And Destiny? 

Ms. RAYNOR. Most of the shelters down in Florida separate the 

males and females not depending upon the age, and we all wanted 

to stay together because it would separate my younger brother and 

my dad. They would go to a separate shelter and it would be me, 

my little sister, and my mom. And we didn’t want that to happen. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. What would happen, let’s say, to a family 

that has—the father and two daughters who are young? 

Ms. RAYNOR. They would be separated. The children would go to 

a different shelter, and I guess the leaders of the shelter would 

take care of them. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. We will look into this, too. 

Thank you. 

Mr. Cleaver, do you have anything just—okay. Thank you. 

Mr. Stivers? 

Mr. STIVERS. Thank you. I will be brief. 

I just wanted to say to Brandon, and Rumi, and Brittany, and 

Brooklyn, and Starnica how proud we are of you and what a great 

job you did on your testimony today. We are proud of your accomplishments, your college graduation, joining the military, but we 

are also proud of your perseverance and your passion on this subject. 

I want to share just a really quick story so you understand that 

while homelessness affects a lot of people, it certainly does not 

have to get in your way. We have a colleague—a good friend of 

mine named Hansen Clarke, from Detroit, Michigan—who was 

homeless, and after his homelessness he went on to college, and 

then became a State representative, State senator, and now he is 

a Member of Congress. 

So I just want all of you to know that you have bright futures. 

You have a lot to offer our society. And we, as a society and as an 

institution here in Congress, need to do a better job of trying to 

help get folks the resources they need, and that is what I think the 

chairwoman’s bill is about. And I am looking forward to supporting 

that and I appreciate your testimony today, and we are going to 

take it and try to address the situations you brought up. But I just 

wanted to make sure you know how proud of you we all are. Thank 

you. 

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

27 

Mr. Green, do you have any comments? 

Mr. GREEN. Just a brief comment, Madam Chairwoman. I think 

these young people have given us an opportunity today to understand that this is not a problem for Democrats or Republicans or 

conservatives or liberals. This is an American problem and it deserves an American solution. 

I look forward to working with you to reach that solution. Thank 

you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Mr. Miller? Thank you. 

Mr. Davis? 

Mr. DAVIS. Madam Chairwoman, the only thing that I would say 

is, I remember my mother telling me when I was a young person 

that problems are like babies—the more you nurse them the more 

they grow—and that it is not always what your problem does to 

you but it is a matter of what you do with what could have been 

your problem. 

I think you all are well on the way to not having problems but 

having solutions. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

And with that, we will excuse this panel, and there are seats 

available for you to listen to the other panel. 

The Chair notes that some Members may have additional questions for this panel which they may wish to submit in writing. 

Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 30 days 

for Members to submit written questions to these witnesses and to 

place their responses in the record. 

If we could have the second panel come up. 

I know it is going to be hard to top that panel, but thank you 

all for being here, and I will now introduce the second panel: Ms. 

Alicia Cackley, Director of Financial Markets and Community Investment, U.S. Government Accountability Office; Mr. Seth Diamond, commissioner, New York City Department of Homeless Services; Ms. Maria Estella Garza, homeless liaison for the San Antonio 

Independent School District; Mr. Mark Johnston, Deputy Assistant 

Secretary for Special Needs, Office of Community Planning and Development, U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, 

commonly known as HUD; Ms. Barbara Poppe, executive director, 

U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness; and Dr. Grace Whitney, 

director of Connecticut Head Start State Collaboration Office, Connecticut State Department of Education. 

Thank you all for being here, and you will be recognized for 5 

minutes. 

We will start with Ms. Cackley. 

STATEMENT OF ALICIA PUENTE CACKLEY, DIRECTOR, FINANCIAL MARKETS AND COMMUNITY INVESTMENT, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE 

Ms. CACKLEY. Chairwoman Biggert and members of the subcommittee, good morning. I am pleased to be here to participate in 

today’s hearing on homeless children and youth. 

The Census Bureau indicates that 22 percent of all children in 

the United States lived in poverty in 2010, and the Department of 

Education identified nearly 940,000 homeless students during the 

28 

2009–2010 school year, an 18 percent increase since the 2007–2008 

school year. Multiple Federal agencies administer programs designed to address the needs of children and youth experiencing 

homelessness, but some programs use different definitions to determine eligibility. These definitions range from people living in emergency or transitional shelters or on the street to those living with 

others because of economic hardship or living in motels or campgrounds because they lack other adequate accommodations. 

My statement today is based on GAO’s June 2010 report on differences in the Federal definitions of homelessness and other factors that impact the effectiveness of programs serving persons experiencing homelessness. In that report, we found that definitional 

differences have posed challenges to providing services for persons 

experiencing homelessness, including children and youth. In particular, children and youth living in certain precarious situations, 

such as doubling up with others or living in motels, historically 

were excluded from receiving government-funded housing services, 

and we certainly heard about that this morning. 

In our work, we also found that the data collected on the homeless have a number of shortcomings, and consequently do not fully 

capture the true extent and nature of homelessness. Further, 

counts of homeless children and youth vary by agency, partly because various Federal programs have used different definitions. 

Congress enacted the Homeless Emergency Assistance and Rapid 

Transition to Housing Act of 2009, the HEARTH Act, which broadened the general definition of homelessness and provided great 

statutory specificity concerning those who should be considered 

homeless. Last month, HUD issued a new rule on the definition of 

homelessness, adding a new category: unaccompanied youth and 

families with children and youth who are defined as homeless 

under other Federal statutes. 

The HEARTH Act and HUD’s recent definitional changes may alleviate some challenges previously faced by children and youth in 

accessing services. In particular, some children and youth who previously were not considered homeless by HUD will now qualify as 

homeless. However, not enough time has passed for us to assess 

the impact of these changes, and the broadening of the definition 

does not mean that everyone who meets the new definition will be 

entitled to benefits in all homeless assistance programs. Constraints on resources will likely continue to restrict access to housing services for many children and youth. 

Another finding in our 2010 report was that different definitions 

of homelessness make effective collaboration across Federal programs more difficult. Based on our work, we recommended that 

Federal agencies develop a common vocabulary for homelessness. 

The agencies agreed with our recommendations and have taken 

some steps toward implementing them. For example, in January of 

this year the Interagency Council convened a meeting of experts to 

discuss the development of a common vocabulary and issued a report to Congress in June that summarized the feedback received 

during that meeting. The report notes that a common vocabulary 

would allow Federal agencies to better measure the scope and dimensions of homelessness and may ease program implementation 

and coordination. 

29 

Recently, Interagency Council staff told us that they held three 

meetings this fall to discuss implementation of a common vocabulary and data standard with key Federal agencies. The Interagency 

Council also noted that individual Federal agencies have taken 

some positive steps to create this common data standard and improve coordination across agencies. For example, HHS and VA have 

been working with HUD to plan the potential transition of some of 

their data collection and reporting to HUD’s Homeless Management Information System. 

To sum up, we believe that a common vocabulary and data 

standard used by all the Federal agencies that provide services for 

the homeless is an important step toward the goal of providing efficient and effective programs to end homelessness. It would allow 

for the collection of consistent data that agencies could use to better understand the nature of homelessness and it would allow for 

more effective communication and collaboration across Federal, 

State, and local programs that serve the homeless. 

Chairwoman Biggert, this concludes my prepared statement. I 

would be happy to respond to questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Cackley can be found on page 50 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Mr. Diamond, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF SETH DIAMOND, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK 

CITY DEPARTMENT OF HOMELESS SERVICES 

Mr. DIAMOND. Thank you. 

Good morning, Chairwoman Biggert, and members of the subcommittee. I am pleased to be with you today to discuss New York 

City’s ongoing efforts to prevent family homelessness and to work 

with those who are homeless to return to the community as quickly 

as possible. 

New York City’s approach mirrors President Obama’s Federal 

strategic plan to prevent and end homelessness. It emphasized preventing homelessness, increasing economic security through employment, improving access to mainstream programs, and improving the health and stability of vulnerable populations. 

As we heard so powerfully this morning, shelter can be particularly difficult for children, many of whom have to leave their school 

and community they know when coming into the shelter system. 

There are 16,500 children in New York City’s shelter system, and 

we work closely with all our families to ensure we can bring as 

much stability as is possible into the lives of children living in shelter. 

The most important service we can provide for children is to 

make sure they are enrolled in school and are attending each day. 

We recognize that teachers and Education Department officials are 

critical in those efforts. We try and place families in shelter as 

close as possible to the school where their youngest child was enrolled, and staff from the City’s Department of Education is located 

at our family intake center to assist families and enroll children in 

a new school if that turns out to be necessary. 

Once families are placed in shelter, education staff collaborates 

with shelter-based staff to ensure children have transportation to 

30 

reach school. We have also begun to provide attendance data to 

shelters so they can track how children are attending school and 

work with families where attendance is an issue. We have also established homework rooms in shelters as a quiet place for students 

to work and receive tutoring from the many not-for-profit organizations that partner with us. 

It is far better for families not to be in shelter at all. To help 

those already in shelter, we have worked to increase our employment efforts, and this year, alone 7,500 shelter households have 

moved into jobs providing not only income, but greater stability. 

For those at risk of homelessness, New York City prevents homelessness primarily through a network of 13 prevention offices, 

called Homebase, located throughout the City. These offices use a 

range of services in their efforts to fight homelessness. Among the 

services is a close coordination with local schools. Homebase does 

regular presentations to parent and teacher groups and school officials so that if they become aware that a family is dealing with 

housing issues they can be referred for services. 

The service mix that Homebase offers is different in each case, 

but our offices are operated under two important principles. First, 

those who ask for assistance must take concrete and verifiable 

steps to improve their situation, and assistance is contingent on 

their taking those steps. 

Individuals working with a caseworker must design a plan to address the circumstances that put them at risk of homelessness and 

put that plan into action. The plan might include, for example, an 

aggressive job search, looking for a new apartment, or attending financial counseling. 

Second, as called for in the Open Door report, Homebase is an 

evidence-based effort where we continuously and rigorously review 

our work to ensure it is efficient and cost-effective. Especially at a 

time of limited resources, it is critical that our services be based 

on solid and reliable data. Homebase meets that test and its programs are continually evaluated to both ensure we are targeting 

those most in need of services and that wherever possible, we are 

providing the services that are not only beneficial to the family but 

will prevent those households from needing shelter. 

To further ensure Homebase prevention services are effective, we 

have undertaken a series of independent evaluations of the program. These reviews, conducted by leading researchers at universities across the country, as well as a random assignment study undertaken by Abt Associates, one of the Nation’s leading social 

sciences research firms, looks at a series of the most critical questions involving our prevention efforts. The research is under way 

and we look forward to sharing the results as those findings become available. 

Prevention efforts have become a greater part of the national discussion of homelessness, and we are gratified that the new Emergency Solutions Grants (ESG) supports prevention work. We think 

this change will be critical in encouraging communities across the 

country to direct more resources towards prevention, and believe if 

those programs are established and operated under the high standards we have used, they can be effective, and believe it would be 

31 

a good investment of taxpayer dollars to expand the ESG funding 

to allow additional prevention resources to be put in place. 

HUD resources now are primarily dedicated to shelter, however, 

should be focused on those with the greatest need. With financing 

already stretched thin, to further dilute those allocations would 

hurt the substantial efforts being made in New York and across the 

country to assist those in shelter. 

Dedicated resources are essential to provide those in shelter with 

needed housing, employment, and rehabilitative and case management services. While those living with others may be in need of 

services, those needs can be addressed through other funding 

streams, such as ESG. Existing allocations, such as the Temporary 

Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program, also provide an opportunity to assist those at risk of homelessness. 

I thank you for the opportunity to testify and look forward to answering your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Diamond can be found on page 

63 of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

Ms. Garza, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF MARIA ESTELLA GARZA, HOMELESS LIAISON, 

SAN ANTONIO INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT 

Ms. GARZA. Thank you. 

Good morning, Representative Biggert, Representative Gutierrez, 

and members of the subcommittee. My name is Estella Garza, and 

for the past 17 years I have been the homeless liaison at San Antonio Independent School District in San Antonio, Texas. 

Last year, we enrolled 3,171 homeless students in San Antonio 

ISD. That is a 56 percent increase over the year before, and we are 

on track for another increase this year. 

About 80 percent of the homeless students we serve live in doubled-up situations, staying with other people because they have no 

other place to go. We can debate HUD homeless versus Ed homeless, but in reality, they are all the same kids. Families and youth 

can’t find spaces in the shelters or the shelters don’t have the space 

to serve families or unaccompanied minors, so they are all—what 

is left is just for them to be doubled up. 

And they bounce from one situation to another. In San Antonio 

there isn’t a double-up population, a motel population, and a shelter population; it is all one group—a homeless population. 

However they are defined, they are here and they will be here. 

If they are not counted in our view of homelessness, it will be extremely skewed. 

And when we talk about ending homelessness in 5 or 10 years, 

we must realize that we cannot do that without addressing the 

needs of our doubled-up children and youth because if they continue to experience the instability of doubling up as their norm, 

then they will become the chronic homeless adults of tomorrow. 

As we heard from our youth who testified earlier, doubled-up 

children live in extremely overcrowded and stressful conditions 

that affect every aspect of their development. We work hard to 

serve our families and youth despite their constant mobility, but 

32 

since they have no way to access stable housing, ultimately school 

districts are losing children. 

Example: I assisted a mother this October who had been doubled 

up in 5 different homes in a 2-month period. She didn’t know 

where to enroll her son. That same day, he was enrolled, but I 

couldn’t help to access HUD’s services. She was not homeless, according to HUD. 

Another family who comes to mind is a mom, a veteran with a 

high school son. They were living in a motel in a terrible neighborhood in one room with no cooking facilities—not even a microwave 

or a refrigerator. 

I remember her son’s exact words: ‘‘This life is for the birds, not 

humans.’’ Housing services? Mom paid the hotel. They are not 

homeless, according to HUD. 

I had hoped the changes to the HUD definition and the HEARTH 

Act would allow San Antonio to provide housing and supportive 

services to the children and youth I serve. However, after reading 

the regulations, and particularly the documentation requirements, 

I realized that the new definition would not make any difference 

for the vast majority of my families and youth. 

For example, it will be impossible for a doubled-up family to provide verification from the host family about how long they can stay, 

how many times they have moved, or even confirming they were 

actually staying there at all. Host families don’t want to admit to 

any agency that they have two families in their apartment when 

their lease and occupancy indicates one family. 

I have seen families get evicted from HUD-subsidized housing for 

going over the occupancy limits by housing a doubled-up family, so 

now we have two homeless families, not one. So it is understandable that even a case manager calling a host family will be threatening and likely to result in the host family asking the doubledup family to leave immediately. 

If HUD’s goal is to create a high degree of anxiety and animosity 

among family members in my community, these documentation requirements are an excellent way of doing that. They will destroy 

families’ support networks, create more mobility for my kids, more 

stress, and even greater challenges. It seems like HUD is trying to 

keep their old definition of homelessness and eliminate my doubled-up families and youth by requiring too much documentation. 

I understand HUD categorizes these families and youth as atrisk, but the services my families and youth need most are housing 

and supportive services, which are not available for at-risk families. Plus, the at-risk population, again, won’t be counted, which 

again creates a false picture of homelessness in my community. 

H.R. 32, the Homeless Children and Youth Act, would be more 

efficient than HUD’s paper chase and it would help our COC identify common needs and pursue common goals with one mindset. I 

am used to certifying homelessness for other Federal programs, 

such as the USDA free meals at school, HHS Head Start, and the 

College Financial Aid for Unaccompanied Homeless Youth. I certainly will be glad to accept the responsibility of certifying children 

and youth who are in clearly homeless situations under the U.S. 

Department of Education’s definition so that we can serve them 

and prevent them from becoming tomorrow’s homeless adults. 

33 

Thank you so much for your time. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Garza can be found on page 70 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

Mr. Johnston, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF MARK JOHNSTON, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY, OFFICE OF SPECIAL NEEDS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 

HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT 

Mr. JOHNSTON. Chairwoman Biggert, Ranking Member Cleaver, 

and Mr. Green, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on 

this very important issue. I want to also thank you for having the 

young, courageous witnesses on the first panel, and they are certainly evidence that all of us need to do more to help so many in 

this Nation who have no place to call home. 

Families with children make up too large a share of our homeless 

population, making up nearly 40 percent of all people living on our 

streets and in our shelters. Sadly, one in five homeless families are 

living in cars and other unsheltered places. 

This week, HUD released its national Point-In-Time count for 

homeless persons. HUD partners with communities each January 

to count the number of persons at a point in time who are either 

unsheltered—that is, living outside—or are in homeless shelters. 

These counts do not include persons who are at risk of having no 

housing, such as persons living with other family or friends, of 

which there are many, especially in these very difficult economic 

times. 

The number of persons living unsheltered or in shelters declined 

by just over 2 percent between 2010 and 2011. Importantly, this 

overall decline reflects reductions in all subgroups—individuals, 

the chronically homeless, veterans, and families with children. The 

reduction in homelessness among families was 2.4 percent from 

2010 and 5 percent since 2007. 

While we as a Nation have a long ways to go, given high record 

poverty rates and unemployment rates, it is heartening that we are 

seeing at least some progress again in reducing homelessness. 

These reductions are a testament to both recent nationwide homeless prevention efforts as well as continued funding of proven programs authorized by this subcommittee that provide supportive 

housing to homeless families and individuals. 

The HEARTH Act provides communities, for the first time, a full 

range of tools to prevent and end homelessness. In particular, 

HEARTH expressly allows for HUD programs to serve persons who 

are defined as ‘‘at risk of homelessness’’ and expands the definition 

of who is considered homeless. 

HUD began to train this week, on Tuesday, on the definition of 

homelessness with our over 8,000 local grantee partners. It is important to note that as grantees begin to use the new, more expanded definition of homelessness and the definition of at-risk 

homelessness we continue to receive essential flat funding year 

after year. We are obviously in a time of great fiscal constraint, 

and it will be very challenging to serve more people without additional resources. 

34 

Related to the definition, I would like to acknowledge the good 

work of GAO in assessing the need for a common vocabulary when 

it comes to the issue of homelessness. I enthusiastically support the 

finding that there should be a common vocabulary. 

The HEARTH Act was the result of many years of hard work 

from those on this committee and in the Congress in general, the 

advocacy community, homelessness service providers, and HUD. I 

was personally involved in these efforts from the beginning and I 

was very heartened to see Congress pass this bipartisan bill. 

In addition to broadening the definition of homelessness, the 

HEARTH Act also consolidates three HUD programs into one, creates the Emergency Solutions Grants program, and the Rural 

Housing Stability Program. So now, for the first time, HUD’s homeless assistance programs will have the full range of tools that communities need to confront homelessness for families and children, 

from prevention for those who are at risk of losing their housing 

to emergency shelter, transitional housing, rapid re-housing, and 

permanent housing. 

To implement the HEARTH Act amendments, HUD has developed and is issuing six sets of regulations, the details of which are 

in my written testimony. 

Finally, we realize that solving homelessness will require more 

resources than are available through HEARTH. We are involved in 

several initiatives to help reduce and end homelessness for families 

with children and for youth that attempt to both bring more resources to the table and to find the best strategies to deal with this 

problem. 

In conclusion, I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify 

today, and I look forward to answering any questions you may 

have. 

[The prepared statement of Deputy Assistant Secretary Johnston 

can be found on page 79 of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Johnston. 

Ms. Poppe, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF BARBARA POPPE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

UNITED STATES INTERAGENCY COUNCIL ON HOMELESSNESS 

Ms. POPPE. Good morning, Chairwoman Biggert, Representative 

Green, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the impact of homelessness on children and 

youth. 

I want to thank Chairwoman Biggert for her leadership on the 

passage of the HEARTH Act. Today, we are here to discuss three 

requirements in that Act: a change in HUD’s homeless definition, 

a GAO study on Federal definitions, and the development of a Federal plan. 

I am pleased to report that we have made progress on all three. 

HUD’s new definition reflects the agreement that was reached in 

the HEARTH Act, and we have followed up on the GAO’s study to 

advance Federal work on a common vocabulary. And, as you know, 

we have the first ever Federal strategic plan to prevent and end 

homelessness. 

35 

It is horrifying in a Nation as wealthy as ours that nearly 1 million children and youth experience homelessness. The testimony we 

have just heard underscores this tragedy. 

As Deputy Assistant Secretary Mark Johnston has noted, the latest HUD data shows that nearly 240,000 family members were 

homeless on a single night in January of 2011. While the 2011 

Point-In-Time count is less than the 2010 count, other trends are 

not so positive. 

There is significant mismatch between income and housing. More 

families are experiencing foreclosure. The shrinking affordable 

housing stock, falling household incomes, and increased competition from higher-income renters have really widened the gap between the number of low-income renters and the number of affordable units. 

The needs of family, youth, and children vary, and often require 

not only housing and employment but also attention to education, 

health care, and other needs. These operate out at different silos 

at a local level, often managed by different jurisdictions. Instead of 

a tailored and holistic response, families and youth confront a highly fragmented, uncoordinated set of services that they are are usually left to navigate on their own. 

Not only is this tragic for homeless families, there is a growing 

body of evidence that repeated housing instability is costly to public 

systems. The good news is that there are solutions. Investing in 

more housing assistance now can save money over the long term 

for schools, child welfare, the health care system, and other public 

institutions. 

In June of 2010, the Obama Administration acted. For the first 

time, the Federal Government set a goal to end family, youth, and 

child homelessness by 2010. Opening Doors is based on a growing 

body of evidence that shows how targeted, comprehensive solutions 

are more cost effective than temporary fixes. 

Affordable housing is a cornerstone of any effort to reduce and 

ultimately end homelessness. The preservation and expansion of affordable housing through rehabilitation, new construction, and 

rental assistance is critical to ending family homelessness. 

Unfortunately, though, the trend lines for affordable housing are 

going in all the wrong directions. Too many Americans cannot afford a safe place to call home. Despite the growing need, housing 

assistance programs are threatened at all levels of government in 

the current budget environment. 

Next to affordable housing, prevention is also critical. Targeted 

interventions that keep families from losing a home in the first 

place spare children the trauma of homelessness, absences from 

school, or changes in schools. The key drivers are access to affordable housing, financial assistance, and support during a crisis. 

Another proven solution is rapid re-housing. Short-term assistance helps families quickly move out of homelessness and into permanent housing. HPRP made an enormous impact around the 

country and helped many communities shift to more cost-effective 

programs focused on prevention and rapid re-housing. 

Housing stability, though, over the long term requires the right 

types of support provided in a highly coordinated way. These inVerDate Nov 24 2008 13:54 Jul 13, 2012 Jkt 072634 PO 00000 Frm 00043 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 K:\DOCS\72634.TXT TERRIE
36 

clude good health care, education, transportation, child care, and a 

job that pays enough to meet household needs. 

Federal collaboration is moving from silos to solutions that connect these systems to prevent homelessness whenever possible, and 

when it does not happen, to resolve it as quickly as possible. That 

is work we are doing across Federal agencies. So, too, this needs 

to occur at State and local levels. 

What gets measured gets done, and this Administration has improved data collection, analysis, and reporting. Agencies within 

HHS and VA are coordinating with HUD on these efforts. 

Our Nation has faced economic uncertainties during the first 18 

months of Opening Doors implementation, but one thing remains 

clear: Homelessness is an urgent problem. Not only is it devastating to families and individuals who experience it, but it is 

costly to society as a whole. 

Republicans and Democrats in Congress and across the country 

have collaborated for decades to fight homelessness. Family, youth, 

and child homelessness is an outrage that should know no partisan 

boundaries and is an area where we can make a real difference together. 

We need to invest in what works; we need to invest in our future—our children. Let us work together to ensure that by 2020, 

not a single American child or youth experiences homelessness. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look forward to 

your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Poppe can be found on page 94 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Dr. Whitney, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF GRACE-ANN CARUSO WHITNEY, PH.D., MPA, 

IMH–E (IV), DIRECTOR, CONNECTICUT HEAD START STATE 

COLLABORATION OFFICE, CONNECTICUT STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION 

Ms. WHITNEY. Good morning, Chairwoman Biggert, Representative Green, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the 

opportunity to provide testimony today. 

My name is Grace Whitney. For the past 15 years, I have served 

as director of the Head Start State Collaboration Office for the 

State of Connecticut. The Head Start Act requires that State collaboration offices be in each State to partner with States in specific 

priority areas, one of which is children experiencing homelessness. 

For babies, toddlers, and preschoolers, living doubled-up in motels and other homeless situations creates toxic stress, causing developmental challenges such as physical delays and failure to 

thrive, higher incidence of persistent illness, mental health problems such as trauma and depression, irritable behavior, and trouble eating and sleeping. Young children’s neural networks, their actual genetic expressions, and the architecture of their young brains 

are being created based on repetition of experiences. Unhealthy 

conditions accumulate and seriously jeopardize their potential for 

a healthy future. 

For instance, one of our former Head Start managers explains 

that children living in motels ‘‘live in extremely crowded rooms 

37 

with numerous family members and often have very limited food 

preparation options.’’ Often, these environments are full of transient adults and outdoor areas are unsafe so children are forced to 

stay inside these cramped quarters, certainly not ideal for young 

children and, of course, as you know, infants and toddlers who 

must move. Many of these families would be excluded using the 

HUD definition. 

Families living in unstable conditions, including those who reside 

in motels or doubled-up, often move repeatedly. This is extremely 

stressful for babies and young children who need consistency and 

routine for healthy development and emotional stability. 

Relocating often requires families to re-qualify for essential services, provide documentation yet again, and they can lose their place 

in line. High mobility is stressful for parents, too, and often leads 

to depression, which interferes with parenting, further compromising child development. 

In Connecticut, we find that even young children in HUD shelters often are not getting adequate services and there are delays 

in accessing services due surely to the lack of awareness of the 

needs of babies, toddlers, and preschoolers. Head Start focuses its 

services on those families most in need. Head Start uses the 

McKinney-Vento education definition of homelessness, which recognizes the full range of family and child homelessness that Head 

Start programs see every day. 

Head Start is a mainstream program without sufficient capacity 

to serve all eligible children. In fact, with current funding, Head 

Start nationally serves about 50 percent of eligible preschoolers 

and less than 5 percent of eligible infants and toddlers. 

Yet, Head Start programs are required to identify and prioritize 

doubled-up or other homeless children due to their dire living circumstances. Homeless families are allowed to enroll immediately 

while documentation is obtained. Head Start staff strive to begin 

services right away, to offer or obtain all needed services quickly, 

and to work in whatever ways they can with community partners 

to remove barriers. 

In serving homeless children, Head Start is a natural partner for 

HUD homeless and housing service providers. Head Start is a comprehensive, two-generational program that provides a full range of 

health, mental health, education, and social services to children 

and their families. 

Since roughly half of children in HUD shelters are age five and 

under, these are children who are not on the radar screen of the 

schools. Our services complement those of HUD providers and are 

a critical strategy to meet the multiple needs of homeless families 

that may otherwise go unmet. 

However, since HUD does not consider many doubled-up families 

or motel families to be homeless, this can present a barrier to Head 

Start programs who cannot then provide these families with the 

critical referrals to HUD-funded programs. Even those who might 

qualify under HUD’s definition may still face barriers due to requirements for documentation, which can not only be stressful but 

impossible for families. Such requirements can create delays in 

achieving stability for babies and young children, consume precious 

staff time and resources, and create circumstances which put the 

38 

needs of vulnerable children last, setting them further back developmentally. 

Most beneficial for young children are policies and practices that 

recognize and align with their unique needs and promote rather 

than hinder their health and future success. 

In closing, we all share the goal of ending family homelessness. 

However, without dedicated attention to the needs of young children, working together for multiple systems, we will fall far short 

of this goal. 

To break the cycle of homelessness, we must evaluate all homeless and housing policies, including the definitions of homelessness 

from a child development perspective, and ensure housing policies 

take into account the threat to further lives of these young, the 

very dire consequences to literally the well-being of our Nation, of 

doing anything less. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to share my experiences and 

those of the Head Start programs in the State of Connecticut. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Whitney can be found on page 

112 of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

And now, we turn to the questions by Members, and I am glad 

to see there are a couple of us here. It really is important, and it 

is a shame that there is so much going on and that this happens 

with—when we talk about homelessness, that we keep pushing and 

pushing for this. 

And so, I will yield myself 5 minutes. 

The definition of HUD—as you know, I worked on the definition 

for Education, and I think that is when we realized what—the discovering of—and really getting to know the numbers of how many 

homeless children there were because of enrolling in schools and 

then being able to do that right away, and then finding out that 

HUD didn’t match that. 

And really, the first generic definition of HUD was this is an individual who lacks a regular and adequate nighttime residence. 

And it was really addressed for what we would call the people who 

were living on the street or under the bridge, and it was very important that they were protected by this. 

But moving, then, towards young people, children, and expanding that was very slow. We had the HEARTH Act, and working on 

that, and I can remember that at that hearing—and there were a 

few people there, but it was a most important hearing, and one of 

our Members of Congress testified. It was the first time he had 

ever talked about the fact that he was homeless and had been 

abused. And I have to say, we were all in tears—all five of us. And 

it had such an impact so that we really worked on changing the 

definition there. But it wasn’t enough. 

If you look at the HUD definition, with Title 1, obviously, it is 

the general definition. But then the things that you have to go 

through, still, that an individual or family who will immediately— 

imminently lose their housing, including the housing they own, 

rent, or live in sharing with others, rooms in hotels or motels not 

paid for by a Federal, State, or local government program, court 

order, individual or a family having a primary night residence that 

is a room in a hotel or motel and where they lack resources to reVerDate Nov 24 2008 13:54 Jul 13, 2012 Jkt 072634 PO 00000 Frm 00046 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 K:\DOCS\72634.TXT TERRIE
39 

side there for more than 14 days, or credible evidence that the 

owner will not allow the person to stay more than 14 days, has no 

subsequent resident identified, lacks the resources needed to obtain 

other permanent housing, unaccompanied youth and homeless families with children, having experienced a long-term period without 

living independently in permanent housing, having experienced 

persistent instability as measured by frequent moves, can be expected to continue in status for an extended period of time. 

We really just can’t make these kids jump through all those 

hoops. Most of the children—homeless children—recognized by the 

Department of Education would not meet the HUD standards, and 

I think this is what has happened to some of the children that were 

here today. 

And they don’t qualify. If they don’t meet the requirements they 

don’t qualify for the homeless housing and supportive services. 

We really have to make this change, and I really am happy to 

see that you are bringing this up, and talking about it, and doing 

it. But I think that we really have to have a definition that is the 

same as the other agencies, that is the same as the Department of 

Education, if we are going to get all of this together. And that is 

why we have H.R. 32, as well as doing some other things. 

I don’t think that the kids on panel one or most of the homeless 

kids are recognized as homeless, as I said, by the Department of 

Education should be considered at-risk. These kids are homeless. 

That is their problem and their challenge. And so, HUD needs to 

recognize this fact, and I think Congress and every Federal agency 

needs to work together to help these homeless kids. 

And I would hope that we can work together and continue to do 

that. And as you do rulemaking, too, it is very important that you 

don’t put up more and more barriers to do that. 

Ms. Garza, throughout your testimony you mentioned that you 

couldn’t help certain families secure housing or assistance through 

HUD’s programs, and the reasons why families, children, and 

youth can’t secure is important. Can you address that quickly? 

Ms. GARZA. As I indicated, 80 percent of our families that we 

identified are in doubled-up situations. Many of these families are 

chronically homeless. We work with these families on an ongoing 

basis, year after year after year. 

Because they are in a doubled-up situation, they really don’t 

qualify for HUD services, and these families, being that they have 

been chronically homeless, there are a lot of mental health issues, 

so the supportive services are especially—would be very beneficial 

for the families that I serve. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. And I think we heard today in the testimony that moving—and they would be doubling up with somebody 

and then they would be asked to leave. It is for various reasons. 

Sometimes because they were—people might be afraid that they— 

they have rented for one family and suddenly there is another family living there so they are somewhat illegitimate. 

But I think just the idea that they are being kicked out of someplace and they have nowhere to go, and this keeps happening, is 

just— 

Ms. GARZA. Because they are doubled-up—going from doubled-up 

to doubled-up they are—they have already exhausted a lot of their 

40 

family connections, their family support systems. They have gone 

from family member to family member to family member to family 

member, and in every location they have overstayed their welcome. 

And so, because of that then, again, their limitation or their resources become very limited as to where they can go 

So it gets to be a really challenging situation when they actually 

just move in, because they have to be somewhere in a relative’s 

house, and then have to ask them for documentation to support 

that they really are homeless for HUD. That would be really, really 

challenging. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

We are hearing so much about this, and having this panel was 

great. And we have a couple people here today who are really active in this. One is Diane Nylan, who has traveled all over the 

country visiting homeless throughout the country and then did a 

documentary that is called ‘‘Heroes,’’ and I hope that you have all 

had an opportunity to see that. And then Alexandra Pelosi did one 

called, ‘‘The Motel Kids,’’ and it was about the kids in Florida that 

was very moving. 

And, of course, ‘‘60 Minutes’’ has had a program on this lately, 

and then we have Barbara Duffield here, from the National Coalition on Homelessness, that has done so much. So we have all the 

tools and we have the help, we just have to get this done. 

And with that, I recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, 

for 5 minutes. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Again, I thank the witnesses for appearing today. It has been 

said and I will say it again, it is better to build a strong child than 

to repair a broken adult. Now, for those who deal in the social 

sciences—the psychologists, psychiatrists, the criminologists, paleontologists—I just want you to know, I don’t necessarily like the 

language of a ‘‘broken’’ adult, but I need to communicate, so just 

allow me to communicate. 

I would be interested in knowing if you have seen any empirical 

evidence on the number of people who are incarcerated or were incarcerated who were homeless for some period of time in their 

lives. Anyone with anything that you can point me to? I am sure 

that Google will help, but you may give me a head start if you have 

some empirical intelligence. 

Mr. JOHNSTON. One or two observations I have is, years ago we 

did a study that looked in part at that topic and about 50 percent 

of homeless adults had had some experience with the criminal justice system, either in prisons or in jails. I know, having visited 

Rikers Island before and seeing their homeless prevention program 

out there, there are tremendous challenges we have in our cities 

and communities everywhere with people coming into the jail system because they were homeless and often leaving the jail system 

because they are homeless. And so, prevention really is a key factor 

here. 

Mr. GREEN. Now, someone indicated that people move from one 

State to another because they find that in State A they don’t receive the resources that they can receive in State B. To what extent 

do you find this to be the case, where we have people who literally 

will hear, ‘‘If you go over to State A, you will get some help.’’ 

41 

Ms. Poppe? 

Ms. POPPE. Certainly, the implementation of Federal programs at 

State and local levels varies quite widely because a great amount 

of discretion is given to locals and States as to how they implement 

the Federal programs. But the other piece that occurs is that the 

resources that States and local governments contribute to the solutions also vary. So some States contribute and support heavily in 

homeless programs to provide assistance; other States provide very 

little if no assistance at all. 

And so, the resources available to families vary greatly. I think 

you can see that most in the unsheltered numbers is the high rate 

of unsheltered children and youth that we see primarily in southern States and in California is reflective of a lack of investment by 

often State and local governments in real housing solutions to address the problem. And so, certainly, that variation is quite different from what services are available in the State of New York, 

say, and what would be available in the State of California. 

Mr. GREEN. Do you find that people will migrate based upon 

knowledge that they receive about these benefits from one State to 

another? 

Ms. POPPE. Most of the studies that I have seen indicate that 

people are moving for reasons of greater economic opportunity, so 

they are moving to find the jobs. And then, sometimes, those jobs 

don’t pan out, and in that case, they experience homelessness. 

So it is not that they moved for homeless services per se. They 

moved because they were seeking a better job opportunity than 

they had in that situation. I think an exception to that will be domestic violence victims who often are fleeing abusive situations, 

and they do try to leave the State or other communities simply for 

safety reasons. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you. 

Mr. Johnston, would you care to add something to this, please? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. I remember being in St. Petersburg a few years 

ago and there was a statewide conference on homelessness that I 

was going to be speaking at the next morning, and I was walking 

around the City talking with people who were out on the streets 

at night in a park, and this one particular gentleman observed that 

he is actually from Ohio but he comes down in the winter time to 

stay in Florida. He is increasingly staying there time and time 

again. 

I was intrigued with that, and as we looked at our data within 

communities all across the country, the vast majority of people do 

tend to stay within—where their family is from, frankly, although 

there certainly are examples, as Barbara is mentioning, that if they 

need greater economic opportunity, they are going to be searching 

wherever that might be. 

And I did want to also emphasize the point: I have seen huge disparities on the level of assistance provided. ‘‘60 Minutes’’ contacted 

us before they did the story; we provided them all of the data that 

we had and they therefore picked the State of Florida in large part 

because two-thirds of all homeless families live outside in Florida. 

There are very few places like that in the country, but every 

State is somewhat different. And that is certainly a huge concern 

that families with children will be living outside. 

42 

Mr. GREEN. I really would like to explore this more, but my time 

is limited, so I will move onto something else. 

We have heard a good indication that one can be housed yet 

homeless—housed yet homeless—doubled-up, as you have put it, 

living with a friend. And the intelligence that you accorded us with 

reference to how this impacts the formative years of very young 

children is very, very disturbing, which gets us to this notion of a 

need for a common definition, but a common vocabulary. A common 

vocabulary could be of great benefit across agencies, as I am understanding your testimony today. 

I also understand, and I want you to help me with this, is the 

genuine appeal for assistance, that these definitions were promulgated because there was a need that they were trying to meet so 

they arrived at a definition that would work for a given need, 

which developed these silos and definitions and stovepipes that did 

not function well across lines. How do we deal with the different 

needs that have to be met with a common definition? 

And I am hopeful and believe that we are moving in the right 

direction. I just want to hear from the experts on the record as to 

how we get it done. So which of the experts would like to be first? 

Mr. Johnston? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. About 2 years ago, HUD, the Department of 

Health and Human Services, and the Department of Education 

launched an effort and submitted a proposal to Congress to try a 

demonstration in particular for homeless families, and another one 

for currently homeless persons. And we were trying to link up 

mainstream resources that HUD has with HHS and Education. 

And it was interesting—this went on for about a year, in terms 

of really fine-tuning a proposal that we could use, and when we 

spoke the word ‘‘homeless’’, it certainly was used in different ways, 

from my good friend, Joe McLaughlin, from Education, as he would 

describe what homelessness meant from their statutory definition 

versus ours. 

So I think the need for a common vocabulary is incredibly valuable. When we interviewed with the GAO, we certainly supported 

that and look forward to that, and I know ICH has taken great 

leadership to move forward on that, because the challenge in this 

country is there are so many different needs—huge housing 

needs—that we have to be able to converse very well across agencies at Federal and local levels to solve this problem. 

Mr. GREEN. Mr. Diamond? 

Mr. DIAMOND. I would agree that there are tremendous needs, 

and I certainly think that we should do more to invest both in people in shelter and in people who are living in precarious living situations of all kinds. New York City has made a great effort, and the 

HPRP funding that we have we have really used in a targeted way 

for at-risk families, in particular. 

Our concern with broadening a definition, though, is diluting the 

resources. At a time of level or even declining funding, broadening 

the definition away from shelter potentially means taking resources away from the shelter system to use in other situations. 

There are other needs, clearly, and there are funding streams 

available. But we really need to make sure we continue our investment in those in shelter, because those are high-need families who 

43 

have a variety of case management and other kinds of services that 

need to be provided if they are going to be able to leave the shelter 

system. 

Mr. GREEN. Mr. Poppe, would you care to respond? 

Ms. POPPE. What I wanted to add is that as we have heard all 

of the testimony this morning from the young people they, in fact, 

were all eligible for HUD programs related to providing mainstream housing assistance. But the reality is, those mainstream 

housing programs are oversubscribed. HUD programs can only 

meet about one-fourth of the need for those who are eligible. 

And so, the larger issue goes back to the need for the resources 

to meet those needs, and that is why the Interagency Council has 

worked across the definitions toward this end of creating a common 

vocabulary so that even in these places we can talk about the different eligibility criteria and how we can try to effectively use the 

scarce resources that are available to get families who are living 

precariously and doubled-up in really difficult circumstances the 

best access to affordable housing, which is what I heard each of 

these young people testify about, was what they were really looking 

for was a safe, stable home. 

We just, as a country, haven’t yet made that commitment of the 

resources that the Federal, State, and the local, and the private 

sector resources to make that occur. And that is the work that sits 

before us, and that is the larger call to end homelessness. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you very much, Mrs. Biggert. I will wait. If 

there is another round I will wait. Thank you. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Let’s do another round. 

Let’s go to Mr. Sherman first for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SHERMAN. We have a shortage of housing for the homeless. 

We have an incredible shortage of money here in the Federal Government. And we have an enormous surplus of boarded-up houses, 

at least in some communities. 

Is there any way that we can use the housing stock that has already been constructed to meet these needs? And knowing that 

some of these houses that are boarded-up are 2,000 or 3,000 square 

feet, is there any way that they can accommodate more than one 

homeless family? 

I will ask Mr. Johnston. 

Mr. JOHNSTON. We do have an initiative that we have had for 

years, and it certainly is much more active during years where we 

have huge foreclosures, like in the recent past, where discounts can 

be made to allow these houses to be used for a variety of different 

reasons, including housing homeless persons. 

Mr. SHERMAN. It is one thing to find somebody who is homeless 

but somehow has the finances to make reduced mortgage payments. Is that the kind of program you are talking about, or are 

you talking about a program by which community organizations acquire use or ownership of these structures? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. It was really the latter, in terms of foreclosed 

properties. 

Mr. SHERMAN. How many of these foreclosed properties have 

been turned over to those housing the homeless in the last year? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. I will get that answer for you because I do not 

know. 

44 

Mr. SHERMAN. Because everywhere I look in—well, not everywhere I look—in many places where you look around the country, 

the homes are being boarded up, they are being torn down. The 

ones that are being torn down are in bad shape when measured 

against good housing. They are palaces compared to sleeping in 

your car, and even better compared to sleeping in the car you don’t 

have. 

So we are in this bizarre circumstance where we have boardedup houses and people sleeping on the streets, and that—on another 

night, can you tell me what— 

Mr. JOHNSTON. Actually, it just occurred to me, I did not refer 

to the Neighborhood Stabilization Program—multibillion program 

funded by Congress that has been tremendously helpful, to look at 

distressed areas with high foreclosure rates, to be able to rehabilitate and get those houses back into service. And it is in many, 

many tens of thousands— 

Mr. SHERMAN. That is back into service for people who are going 

to own the homes, which really get people out of apartments and 

into homes that they can—single family homes they can live in, 

which is an outstanding idea. I don’t know if that affects the problems that we are talking about today, although it could be an— 

Mr. JOHNSTON. When we did the training for and launching of 

this program, we also encouraged the use of these properties for 

nonprofit organizations to house persons with special needs, including homeless persons. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Okay. Gotcha. 

What problems are you having administering the HEARTH Act? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. I am sorry. What problems what? 

Mr. SHERMAN. The HEARTH Act? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. We are just now launching the implementation of 

the HEARTH Act amendments. The definition of homelessness, for 

instance, comes into effect on January 4th; the first program coming out of line is the Emergency Solutions Grants program, which 

is January 4th, as well. 

I will mention that we have identified a few technical challenges—technical errors that we have found in the law that are 

going to be limiting communities. For instance—and one of the 

most concerning ones to— 

Mr. SHERMAN. When did you discover these errors and when did 

you bring them to the attention of members of this committee? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. Committee staff recently received a copy of them 

to look at; we briefed them on it. 

Mr. SHERMAN. When did you discover the problems? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. We discovered the problems probably a year-anda-half, 2 years ago. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Okay. 

Mr. JOHNSTON. And let me say, the Senate was hopeful to actually be enacting changes to this. 

Mr. SHERMAN. So you found the problems a year-and-a-half ago, 

you waited a year-and-a-half to tell the House, but somebody in the 

Senate did know about the problems and was trying to do something about it. 

I yield back. 

45 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. So you sent it to the House of Lords, 

which takes a while to get to these things. Could we see a copy of 

it please? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. Yes. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. I have not received anything. 

Mr. JOHNSTON. Okay. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. I appreciate it. Thank you. 

Dr. Whitney, you highlight some very compelling evidence for 

many of the barriers that have prevented the children and youth 

from getting the housing assistance and services from HUD, and 

I won’t read them over again, that is in your testimony. But I just 

want to say thank you for all that you are doing. 

And I had the opportunity years and years ago—I am a lawyer 

and I had been clerking for a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals 

who was waiting for my job that was going to start in September, 

so I spent the summer volunteering at Head Start in Hull House, 

in Chicago, and it was the first year. It had just opened. And so 

that was—I won’t tell you how long ago that was, but it was a long 

time. And it was really, I think, for the help—that was kind of the 

start of really helping preschool kids to be ready to go to school, 

and we just need more and more of that right now. 

And we need the kids who are homeless—I guess I am not asking questions, really, but I really would hope that we could all 

work together to really to solve this and really take a look at removing these barriers, because the more regulations that we get in 

the harder it is. 

And I know, Mr. Diamond, it seems like you don’t really like 

H.R. 32. 

Mr. DIAMOND. I am certainly supportive of the concept of investing in people who are in difficult housing situations, and the City 

makes a major investment in trying to help those families. And we 

have offices throughout the City that provide services. 

Our concern is that shelter is a very expensive and needed re- source. In New York City, it costs $3,000 a month to keep a family 

in shelter. And if we are going to take money away from the shelter system, it will have an impact on our ability to effectively serve 

those families. 

So that is our concern. Not that there isn’t a need, not that if 

there were increasing resources available we wouldn’t want to invest in everyone who has needs, but our concern is taking resources away from those who are in the shelter system. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. That really is a different issue, but I 

know that this is something that—even when we were trying to do 

the HEARTH Act, to get that through, to try and get everybody on 

board was difficult. But I think everybody now realizes the importance of it. 

And I think New York is probably doing more than a lot of the 

States, really, in the programs that you have. I was impressed by 

that. But I really would like to see us all being on board with making sure that there aren’t these barriers. 

So, Ms. Cackley, we haven’t asked you any questions. Would you 

like to make another comment from— 

Ms. CACKLEY. I do just have one comment. I wanted to also make 

the point in talking about the benefits of a common vocabulary is, 

46 

one of the other things that it does is it allows you to do a much 

better job of measuring homelessness, which then allows you to 

know what it is you are dealing with in a much more complete 

way. Prioritizing does have to take place, but you can’t really even 

prioritize if you don’t know the extent of the problem. So for that 

purpose, having a common vocabulary allows measurement to happen. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. And then all the measurement would be the same, hopefully. 

Ms. CACKLEY. That would be the hope. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Okay. 

With that, I yield back. 

Mr. Green, do you have something briefly? 

Mr. GREEN. Yes, ma’am. I will make it very brief. Thank you. 

I would like to, if I may, Mrs. Biggert, thank the staff. They just 

provide us an inordinate amount of intelligence, and it means a lot 

to have people to assist us to the extent that they do. 

Following up on what you said, Ms. Cackley, do others agree that 

a common definition would yield greater intelligence on the length, 

breadth, width, and depth of the problem? Is there anyone who differs? 

Mr. JOHNSTON. I think there is a distinction between common vocabulary and common definition, in the sense that if we all understand the terms we are using, we have a common dictionary that 

we can all use, then we can understand each other, we can communicate, and we can implement programs. 

I, too, have a concern, as does Mr. Diamond. If you were to expand HUD’s homeless definition, which is in the law, to, for instance, the Education definition, it has some big challenges with it. 

And what I mean by that is, we have enough funding from Congress for 3 years in a row to house 200,000 people in transitional 

and permanent housing. Expanding the definition greatly does not 

allow us to serve a single additional person, and that is sort of the 

concern we have about having one common definition when the resources that we provide are very, very expensive. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Would the gentleman yield? 

Mr. GREEN. Of course, Madam Chairwoman. Of course. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. I might have said that the wrong way. 

What we are looking for is that if a child is homeless under the 

definition—Education—then they should be considered homeless. It 

doesn’t really put that definition into HUD. It doesn’t expand it to 

adults. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Let me move to another area rather quickly, and this is in the 

area of veterans who are homeless, and they have children, too, of 

course. And all children are important. No child should be elevated 

to some status higher than another. 

But I am curious, do we have, Ms. Poppe, any intelligence on the 

children of veterans? 

Ms. POPPE. Thank you, Mr. Green, for that question. This is an 

area that has been a strong focus of the President and VA Secretary Shinseki, to focus on the needs of homeless veterans, and 

that we might one day end that by 2015. 

47 

Just this week, we reported a 12 percent reduction in the percentage of veterans experiencing homelessness. There are a couple 

of new programs—or programs that have been really pushed out by 

this Administration. 

One is the HUD–VASH Program. The VASH Program provides 

rent subsidies through HUD combined with health care services 

and other supports through the VA, and that program is able to 

serve veterans’ families, including the children in them. And so, it 

is a holistic response to veterans’ homelessness. 

The VA has also just put together, with the support of Congress, 

the Supportive Services for Veterans Families. That program provides flexible assistance that, too, can serve families with children. 

Historically, the VA services have been limited to the veteran 

themselves, and with these two initiatives, they can now serve family members who are part of that. So yes, we are seeing veterans’ 

families, unfortunately, experiencing homelessness, and yes, we are 

able to respond and we believe that these responses is what is contributing to the overall reduction in homelessness among veterans. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you. 

Madam Chairwoman, I want to thank you again, and alert the 

witnesses that the Chair recently marked up a piece of legislation 

styled ‘‘Homes for Heroes,’’ and this piece of legislation would station a person in HUD whose sole responsibility would be to monitor 

homelessness among our veterans and there would be a report accorded Congress. So I want to thank you for allowing that legislation to receive a markup, and hopefully, it will matriculate through 

Congress and get to the President’s desk. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. The gentleman is very humble. It was his 

legislation that passed. 

Just one further thing for clarification. 

Ms. Cackley, you note in your testimony that the Department of 

Education identified nearly 1 million homeless students during the 

2009–2010 school year, and that there was an 18 percent increase 

since the 2007–2008 school year. So you note that some evidence 

suggests that homelessness among children is increasing. 

How do you explain the discrepancy between the HUD report— 

numbers that were just reported by the Administration on Tuesday 

and the Education numbers? 

Ms. CACKLEY. I haven’t looked at them in great detail, but I 

would assume that part of the discrepancy is the definitional differences, still. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Okay. Thank you. 

With that, I ask unanimous consent to insert the following materials into the hearing record: December 7th, 2011 letter from 

Women Against Abuse; December 8th letter from National Center 

on Family Homelessness; letter from the Chicago Coalition for the 

Homeless; letter from the National Human Services Assembly; letter from the Social Work Association of America; letter from the 

American School Counselor Association; letter from First Focus 

Campaign for Children; letter from Hear Us; letter from the Homeless Prenatal Program; letter from the National Association of REALTORS®; letter from the National Coalition for Homelessness; 

letter from the National Center for Housing and Child Welfare; letVerDate Nov 24 2008 13:54 Jul 13, 2012 Jkt 072634 PO 00000 Frm 00055 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 K:\DOCS\72634.TXT TERRIE
48 

ter from the National Network for Youth; letter from the Western 

Regional Advocacy Project; letter from the National Health Care 

for the Homeless Council; letter from Alliance for Excellent Education; letter from the National Law Center on Homelessness and 

Poverty; letter from the National Association for Education of 

Homeless Children and Youth; letter from Family Promise; letter 

from Family Promise of Midland; letter from the National Network 

to End Domestic Violence; letter from Horizons for Homeless Children; letter from the Interfaith Hospitality Network of Augusta; 

letter from Family Promise of Greater Helena; letter from Interfaith Hospitality Network of Burlington County; letter from Family 

Promise of Morris County; letter from the Interfaith Hospitality 

Network of Essex County; letter from the Family Promise of 

Forsyth County; letter from the Road Home; letter from the Family 

Promise of Albuquerque; letter from the Fort Bend Family Promise; 

letter from the Interfaith Hospitality Network of Northwest Philadelphia; letter from the Family Promise of Monmouth County; letter from the Family Promise of North Idaho; letter from the Family 

Promise of Hawaii; letter from the National PTA; letter from the 

National Association of Secondary School Principals; report from 

the National Center on Family Homelessness; and the June 2011 

data collection summary report from the U.S. Department of Education. 

Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. GREEN. Madam Chairwoman, I have a unanimous consent, 

as well, from the National Low Income Housing Coalition. I would 

like to ask— 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Without objection, it is so ordered. We left 

one out? 

And thank you all. Really, thank you for being here and thank 

you for your testimony. 

The Chair notes that some Members may have additional questions for the panel which they may wish to submit in writing. 

Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 30 days 

for Members to submit written questions to these witnesses and to 

place their responses in the record. 

And there is one more request for unanimous consent—the National Association of Home Builders. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

With that, thank you so much. You have all been great witnesses, and you have been a great panel. Thank you. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:45 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] 

(49) 

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