1

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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5 

### Public Hearing for 6 

### Health and Environmental Protection 7 

### Standards for Uranium and 8 

### Thorium Mill Tailings 9

10

11

12

13 

### 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. 14 

### Wednesday, May 13, 2015 15

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### Ramkota Hotel 17 

### 799 N. Poplar 18 

### Casper, Wyoming 82601 19

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### ATTENDEES 2

3


### EPA: 4 

### DOUGLAS MINTER, Chief of Underground Injection 5 

### Control Program, EPA, Denver Colorado 6 

### INGRID ROSENCRANTZ, Center for Waste Management 7 

### and Regulations, EPA, Radiation Protection 8 

### Division 9 

### TOM PEAKE, Director, Center for Waste 10 

### Management and Regulations, EPA, Radiation 11 

### Protection Division 12

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### TRAVIS DETI, Assistant Director of 3 

### Wyoming Mining Association 11 4 

### BRUCE JONES, Mayor of Douglas, Wyoming 16 5 

### THOMAS JOHNSON, Associate professor, 6 

### Colorado State University 18 7 

### JACK FRITZ, WWC Engineering 23 8 

### WILLIAM GORANSON, President, CEO, 9


### Uranerz 30 10 

### KEVIN FREDERICK, Administrator, 11 

### Water Quality Division, DEQ 36 12 

### DAN WATKINS, HSE manager 13 

### Douglas Exploration 42 14 

### OSCAR PAULSON, Facility supervisor, 15 

### Kennecott Uranium Company, Sweetwater 16 

### Uranium Project 44/112 17 

### STEVEN BROWN, Chair, Colorado 18 

### Mining Association 50/107 19 

### NANCY STANDLER, MD, PhD, 20 

### Wyoming Mining Association 56/99 21

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### JIM WILLOX, Converse County 1 

### Commissioner 64 2 

### SHANNON ANDERSON, Organizer and 3 

### Staff Attorney, Powder River Resource Basin 69 4 

### BRENT BERG, President, Cameco Resources 5 

### Of Casper 71 6 

### ERIC GRANDJORT, Unaffiliated 77 7 

### PETE OBERMUELLER, Executive Director 8 

### Wyoming County Commissioner's Association 80 9 

### CHRIS HOLTEN, Unaffiliated 88 10 

### CHRISTAINE LEE, Unaffiliated 90 11 

### BILL KEARNEY, Unaffiliated 93 12 

### TATYANA NOVIKOVA, Unaffiliated 96 13

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1 

### MR. MINTER: Good evening, everyone. 2 

### My name is Douglas Minter, and I am the chief of 3 

### the Underground Injection Control Program in 4 

### EPA's Denver office. 5 

### Thank you all for coming. I will be 6 

### presiding over the hearing today, and joining me 7 

### on the panel are Ingrid Rosencrantz and Tom 8 

### Peake, from the Office of Radiation and Indoor 9 

### Air in Washington, D.C. This hearing is now in 10 

### session. 11 

### We are here today to listen and to 12 

### receive your comments on the EPA's proposed 13 

### revisions to health and environmental protection 14 

### standards for uranium and thorium mill tailings, 15 

### also known as 40 Code of Federal Regulations Part 16


### 192. 17 

### EPA is proposing to revise this rule by 18 

### adding an additional Subpart F to explicitly 19 

### address groundwater protection at uranium in-situ 20 

### recovery operations. EPA announced this proposed 21 

### rule in the Federal Register on January 26th, 226

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### 2015. The comment period started on January 26, 1 

### 2015 and it has been extended to May 27th, 2015. 2 

### In a moment, Ingrid will explain in more 3 

### detail what was proposed in that notice, but 4 

### before I turn it over to Ingrid, let me explain a 5 

### little bit about how today's hearing or this 6 

### evening's hearing will work. 7 

### There will be two sessions today, one 8 

### this evening from 6 to 8, and one tomorrow 9 

### morning from 9 to 12 in this room. 10 

### Please be sure you have checked in at the 11 

### registration desk, even if you are not planning 12 

### to speak today. I will call the scheduled 13 

### speakers to the podium. When it is your turn to 14 

### speak, please state your name, and I can't 15 

### emphasis this enough, spelling your last name for 16 

### the court reporter, please, and your affiliation, 17 

### before you begin your testimony. Your comments 18 

### will be transcribed and included in the record of 19 

### comments and on the proposed rule. 20 

### In order to ensure everyone has the 21 

### opportunity to speak, and to ensure fairness, 227

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### please limit your testimony to five minutes. We 1 

### will signal to you when you have one minute left 2 

### to speak using this device here in front of me, 3 

### and when the five minutes have passed, I will ask 4 

### you to complete your testimony. 5 

### If you have more to say after your five 6 

### minutes are up, and you would like to speak again 7 

### with information that is new and discreet from 8 

### your previous testimony, and it is not a rebuttal 9 

### to someone else's testimony, we are happy to have 10 

### you speak again. 11 

### Please sign up to speak again at the 12 

### registration table, and you will be called again 13 

### after the other speakers. After you finish your 14 

### testimony, members of the panel may ask 15 

### clarifying questions. We are not here today to 16 

### answer any questions about the proposed rule. If 17 

### you have any questions about the process, please 18 

### find one of the EPA representatives after this 19 

### hearing. 20 

### If you have written copies of your 21 

### testimony or supporting documentation, please 228

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### give a copy to our staff at the registration 1 

### table. This will be helpful as we prepare the 2 

### transcript. If you have any additional comments 3 

### you would like to make, you can submit them in 4 

### writing. Those comments must be received by 5 5 

### p.m. on May 27th, 2015. 6 

### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 7 

### much consideration to comments that we receive in 8 

### writing as we do to comments we receive at public 9 

### hearings like this one. Instructions for 10 

### submitting comments are included in a fact sheet 11 

### at the registration table. You can pick up a 12 

### copy at the table by the door. 13 

### Also, I will also note that restrooms 14 

### are just nearby outside the doors. If you would 15 

### like to testify but have not yet registered to do 16 

### so, please sign up at the registration table in 17 

### this room. Thank you again for coming. Now, let 18 

### me turn things over to Ingrid, who will summarize 19 

### the proposed rule for us. 20 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you, and thanks 21 

### to everyone here for coming to participate in 229

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### this public hearing. We appreciate your 1 

### attention and your engagement. 2 

### Again, I am Ingrid Rosencrantz, and I am 3 

### the lead writer on this rulemaking -- proposed 4 

### rulemaking. I will just briefly summarize the 5 

### different facets of the rule and talk about 6 

### comments and how we would very much appreciate 7 

### getting your comments. And here we go. I think 8 

### you can hear me better now. 9 

### Basically, EPA is proposing to add an 10 

### additional Subpart F that explicitly addresses 11 

### groundwater protection, restoration and stability 12 

### at in-situ recovery operations. 13 

### We're proposing that groundwater be 14 

### adequately characterized before operations begin; 15 

### that after operations cease, the aquifer is 16 

### restored to initial groundwater conditions, and 17 

### that facilities ensure that post restoration 18 

### groundwater conditions remain stable. 19 

### Specifically, we are proposing groundwater 20 

### protection standards be set for a minimum of 13 21 

### constituents. And I'll read those off for you. 2210

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### They are arsenic, barium, cadmium, 1 

### chromium, lead, mercury, selenium, silver, 2 

### nitrate as nitrogen, molybdenum, combined radium 3 

### 226 and radium 228, total uranium, and gross 4 

### alpha particle activity excluding radon and 5 

### uranium. Basically, the groundwater protection 6 

### standard would be set at the MCL or background, 7 

### whichever is actually higher. 8 

### To implement the standard, EPA is 9 

### proposing monitoring requirements for all phases 10 

### of the operation; before operations begin, during 11 

### operations, during restoration and after 12 

### restoration, to ensure that stability is 13 

### continued. In addition, the proposal requires 14 

### corrective action when it's necessary. 15 

### Again, that's the quick summary of the 16 

### requirements of the proposed rule. This is the 17 

### Federal Register notice. We would welcome your 18 

### comments in writing as well as verbally today, 19 

### and you can submit your comments electronically, 20 

### too. I will give you the docket number, in case 21 

### you find that helpful. 2211

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### It is actually in the preamble. The 1 

### docket number is EPA-HQ-OAR-2012-0788, and you 2 

### can find that at www.regulations.gov . That's 3 

### regulations.gov. You can submit comments 4 

### electronically. Okay. That's it for our 5 

### summary. I'll hand it back over to you. Thanks 6 

### very much. 7 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Ingrid. So, we'd 8 

### like to start by calling up our first scheduled 9 

### speaker. That would be Travis Deti. 10


### MR. DETI: Close. 11 

### (Discussion off the record) 12 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 13 

### MR. MINTER: So Travis, if you could 14 

### spell your complete name and state who you are 15 

### representing for the court reporter, please. 16 

### MR. DETI: I'd be happy to. My name is 17 

### Travis Deti. T-R-A-V-I-S. Last name, Deti, D-E18 

### T-I. I am the assistant director of the Wyoming 19 

### Mining Association. 20 

### My comments are going to be kind of from 21 

### a thousand foot level for our organization. We 2212

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### have a number of our member companies with 1 

### representatives here to kind of go into some 2 

### detail of our concerns with the proposed rule, as 3


### well. 4 

### Wyoming Mining Association is an industry 5 

### trade association that represents mining 6 

### companies, contractors, vendors, suppliers and 7 

### consultants in the state of Wyoming. Among its 8 

### mining industry members are uranium recovery 9 

### licensees, including four operating in-situ 10 

### uranium recovery licensees, one licensee in 11 

### construction, one conventional uranium recovery 12 

### operator in standby, several companies planning 13 

### new uranium recovery operations that are 14 

### currently in the permitting process, and several 15 

### companies conducting final reclamation and 16 

### restoration activities. 17 

### First of all, we appreciate the 18 

### Environmental Protection Agency's accommodation 19 

### of an extended comment period, and the 20 

### willingness to hold additional public hearings in 21 

### regions that would be directly impacted by this 2213

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### proposed rule. 1 

### However, given the large quantity of data 2 

### available and necessary for consideration, and 3 

### the complexity of the proposed rulemaking, the 30 4 

### day period -- extension period, we believe, is 5 

### inadequate, in our opinion, and we would request 6 

### further extension of the comment period. 7 

### The state of Wyoming is the leading 8 

### producer of uranium in the United States. 9 

### Wyoming uranium operations produced an estimated 10 

### 2.9 million pounds in 2014, accounting for about 11 

### 66 percent of American production. The industry 12 

### employs an estimated 500 people in the state, and 13 

### contributes millions of dollars in revenue 14 

### annually to state and local government in the 15


### form of taxes and fees. 16 

### A healthy uranium industry is critical to 17 

### the state of Wyoming. We believe the proposed 18 

### rule poses very real negative and insurmountable 19 

### regulatory hurdles to the industry, and it places 20 

### our uranium industry at a competitive 21 

### disadvantage to its competitors in other parts of 2214

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### the world that have far different environmental 1 

### protection priorities than Wyoming's long history 2 

### of environmental protection and natural resource 3 

### conservation. 4 

### We believe the rulemaking is not 5 

### justified, based upon documented minimal risk 6 

### posed by in-situ uranium recovery. The 7 

### rulemaking is also unnecessary, based upon the 8 

### fact that in-situ uranium recovery occurs within 9 

### exempted portions of underground sources of 10 

### drinking water. And currently, federal and state 11 

### regulations already exist that regulate 12 

### stability, monitoring and restoration. 13 

### The proposed rule is inadequately 14 

### justified, since it lacks a hard determination 15 

### regarding any risks that it might mitigate. We 16 

### believe it is based on suppositions and ignores 17 

### abundant evidence of the low risk to human health 18 

### and the environment by in-situ uranium recovery. 19 

### It has punitive economic consequences to the 20 

### uranium recovery industry in our state, and that 21 

### is wholly unjustified by any possible benefits it 2215

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### may offer. 1 

### Further, WMA is concerned about 2 

### jurisdictional conflicts with the Nuclear 3 

### Regulatory Commission and the apparent lack of 4 

### input from state regulators at the Wyoming 5 

### Department of Environmental Quality and from 6 

### industry in the development of the proposal. 7 

### Because of these reasons, we believe this 8 

### proposed rule should be withdrawn, and again, we 9 

### appreciate the agency coming to Wyoming, and we 10 

### appreciate the opportunity for constructive 11 

### dialogue, along with full industry input on this 12 

### issue. Thank you for your time. 13 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 14 

### MR. DETI: Thank you. 15 

### MR. PEAKE: Can we get a copy? 16 

### MR. DETI: Absolutely. 17 

### (Discussion off the record) 18 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 19 

### MR. MINTER: Travis, thank you. Our next 20 

### speaker is Bruce Jones. If you could come up to 21 

### the front, please. 2216

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### (Pause) 1 

### MR. MINTER: Bruce, if you could spell 2 

### your complete name for us and state who you're 3 

### representing today to the court reporter. 4 

### MR. JONES: B-R-U-C-E, J-O-N-E-S. I'm 5 

### the mayor of Douglas, Wyoming. 6 

### My comments are pretty much on the same 7 

### lines. I'm here for the socio economic impact 8 

### that it would cause my town, Glenrock, Rolling 9 

### Hills. Smith Ranch is the biggest in-situ mine 10 

### in the United States. It's centered in Congress 11 

### County. 12 

### They put in to the state 59 million a 13 

### year in taxable income, taxes, payroll and other 14 

### jobs. For every job they produce, there is 1.6 15 

### more jobs on other places. The economic impact 16 

### on Rolling Hills and Glenrock would be great. 17 

### When you keep a mine open that's now 18 

### producing for 30 years without the scientific 19 

### data to back it up from CSU, University of 20 

### Wyoming, Los Alamos, then they can't open any 21 

### other fields. And if they have to have that one 2217

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### field open for 20 years before they could do any 1 

### of their reclamation and move to another field, 2 

### they can't afford to keep one operation not 3 

### producing and open up another field. 4 

### You have, China is starting to build more 5 

### nuclear plants. And if they start building 6 

### chemical, they're going to start producing more 7 

### yellowcake, and that just means they're going to 8 

### produce more uranium and more taxes, more jobs 9 

### than our county. 10 

### If Smith Ranch goes away, that's a big 11 

### part of our income that comes into our towns, and 12 

### it would devastate. And I'm not going to go over 13 

### the rest of the stuff that Travis already 14 

### covered; all of the other things I was going to 15 

### say. But the impact on our town, especially, you 16 

### know, a 500 person town, is great. 17 

### And a lot of people that work at Smith 18 

### Ranch live in Douglas. They live in Glenrock. 19 

### If that goes away, that's a big impact on us, and 20 

### we're already fighting with trying to get coal 21 

### out of the Powder River basin over to China, 2218

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### Indonesia, Taiwan, oil, the whole works. If this 1 

### goes down, my town will suffer, and I don't want 2 

### to see my citizens suffer for something that's 30 3 

### -- three decades long, that is not showing me any 4 

### scientific proof that it's fair. So, I'll stay 5 

### for any questions or -- okay. 6 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 7 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 8 

### MR. MINTER: Bruce, thank you. I'd like 9 

### to call up our next scheduled speaker, Tom 10


### Johnson. 11 

### (Pause) 12 

### MR. MINTER: Tom, if you could spell your 13 

### complete name and state who you're representing 14 

### this evening for the court reporter. 15 

### MR. JOHNSON: Thomas, T-H-O-M-A-S, 16 

### Johnson, J-O-H-N-S-O-N. I'm an associate 17 

### professor at Colorado State University. I am not 18 

### currently representing Colorado State University, 19 

### only myself. All the opinions I express are mine 20 

### and mine alone. 21 

### I'd like to first ask that the EPA 2219

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### strongly consider partnering with Colorado State 1 

### University or other local universities which have 2 

### mining expertise and also have experience working 3 

### with these sites and are currently performing 4 

### research in the area of uranium mining 5 

### restoration. 6 

### Right now, because of funding through the 7 

### state of Wyoming, which has since been 8 

### terminated, there's been a rapid development of 9 

### the science regarding disposition of uranium 10 

### mines, post-mining and post-restoration. 11 

### Because this is developing so rapidly, I 12 

### feel very strongly the EPA should delay any 13 

### rulemaking until the results of these particular 14 

### studies have been published. As recently as the 15 

### 21st of April, there was an ISR uranium research 16 

### symposium in Laramie, Wyoming, at the University 17 

### of Wyoming. 18 

### My particular research group addressed 19 

### the risks associated with uranium mining and mine 20 

### restoration, both pre and post-mining. The EPA 21 

### states in their current proposal, proposed 2220

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### research, that there is no quantification of 1 

### risk. 2 

### We quantified the risk. We've worked 3 

### very closely with the state of Wyoming and using 4 

### their funding. We've worked with the Smith Ranch 5 

### Highland project and did a comprehensive 6 

### evaluation of before and after mining risks for 7 

### all constituents. After analysis, we found that 8 

### only uranium and radium were important with 9 

### regard to human risk. 10 

### We found that uranium, indeed, did go up 11 

### post-mining and post restoration. However, the 12 

### radium concentration, based on our statistical 13 

### analysis went down, resulting in a significant 14 

### reduction of the cancer risk associated with 15 

### uranium mining post restoration. 16 

### Although we did find that uranium 17 

### concentrations increased, we found that the 18 

### toxicity post uranium mining and post restoration 19 

### was similar, if not less than the natural levels 20 

### of uranium found at some locations through 21 

### Europe, where they had found no deleterious 2221

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### effects according to peer review publications. 1 

### So, we found this a very tough assessment 2 

### to make. However, we did make the quantitative 3 

### risk assessment. We did not have an opportunity 4 

### to compare the cost of treatment with or without 5 

### uranium mining. In other words, how much would 6 

### it cost to treat this water pre-mining, because 7 

### it is, indeed, unsuitable for drinking, as 8 

### compared to post-restoration. This is a key item 9 

### that we feel should be investigated very much, 10 

### because it has such an impact on the restoration. 11


### We all know that we have scarce resources 12 

### here in Wyoming with regards to groundwater. If 13 

### we consider how much groundwater is used during 14 

### cleanup, that also must be a point of 15 

### consideration, especially if the cost of treating 16 

### the water is less or the same as pre-mining, 17 

### because we must remember, this water is not 18 

### drinkable as is without any mining. 19 

### We need to ensure that destructive 20 

### restoration is avoided. And there's an excellent 21 

### article on this by Ward Whicker in "Science 2222

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### Journal" called "Avoiding Destructive Restoration 1 

### at DOE Sites." 2 

### The EPA also states there's limited 3 

### information in this area, so I encourage you to 4 

### support research in this area and fund it. Right 5 

### now, there's only limited funds available through 6 

### Region 8. Also, natural attenuation is 7 

### potentially very important and useful for both 8 

### miners and the public. 9 

### It's important and it's discussed in a 10 

### paper that I co-authored with Thomas Borch, and 11 

### it's cited by the EPA. But the EPA does not 12 

### discuss this extensively in rulemaking. It 13 

### should be investigated to see if geochemistry at 14 

### different sites favor this action, and we should 15 

### know that on a geologic time scale, it's very 16 

### probable that uranium will move off site, whether 17 

### or not it is mined. 18 

### Finally, I assume the EPA has scarce 19 

### resources, and again, I urge you to collaborate 20 

### with Colorado State University and other local 21 

### universities performing research in this area. 2223

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### Thank you. 1 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 2 

### MR. PEAKE: Question. 3 

### MR. JOHNSON: Question? 4


### MR. PEAKE: Yeah. 5


### MR. JOHNSON: Yes? 6 

### MR. PEAKE: Are you going to be 7 

### submitting written comments, including the 8 

### references that you just mentioned? 9 

### MR. JOHNSON: Yes, sir. I have several 10 

### comments that I will be submitting 11 

### electronically. 12 

### MR. PEAKE: All right. Thank you. 13 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Dr. Johnson. I'd 14 

### like to call up our next scheduled speaker. That 15 

### would be Jack Fritz. Please come forward. And 16 

### Jack, if you could spell your complete name and 17 

### state who you're representing for the court 18 

### reporter this evening. 19 

### MR. FRITZ: My name is Jack Fritz, J-A-C20 

### K, F-R-I-T-Z. I am representing WWC Engineering. 21 

### I am a professional environmental engineer 2224

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### employed by WWC Engineering in Sheridan, Wyoming. 1 

### WWC is a Wyoming based employee owned 2 

### consulting engineering firm that has spent more 3 

### than three decades permitting domestic energy 4 

### production facilities. These include coal mines, 5 

### oil and gas mines, and uranium ISR facilities. 6 

### It has been my experience in 15 years of 7 

### employment with WWC that there is no extractive 8 

### industry with as much regulatory oversight as 9 

### uranium ISR. This begins with years of baseline 10 

### data acquisition and permitting, in order to 11 

### obtain multiple, and often overlapping permits 12 

### from state and federal agencies. 13 

### It continues into operations, when 14 

### multiple agencies oversee excursion monitoring, 15 

### well field balancing and groundwater restoration. 16 

### It concludes when the lead regulatory agency 17 

### charged with protection of public health and the 18 

### environment determines that groundwater 19 

### restoration and decommissioning has satisfied the 20 

### applicable regulations and performance based 21 

### license conditions. 2225

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### Numerous studies have been published that 1


### show that there has never been a documented off2 

### site impact to groundwater from a uranium Israel 3 

### facility. Yet, additional regulation is being 4 

### proposed, not on the basis of any new evidence to 5 

### the contrary, but on a series of beliefs that are 6 

### lacking in technical justification. 7 

### For example, the proposed rule is based 8 

### on the belief that it is needed to address 9 

### exposure pathways for radionuclides in 10 

### groundwater resulting from ISR. However, it 11 

### fails to show that such exposure pathways occur 12 

### under current practices. 13 

### As mentioned previously, there is well 14 

### documented evidence that no off-site water supply 15 

### wells have ever been contaminated by uranium ISR 16 

### facilities, yet these studies are not referenced 17 

### in the proposed rule. And of course, ISR can 18 

### only take place in an aquifer that has been 19 

### permanently exempted as a source of drinking 20


### water. 21 

### As Dr. Johnson mentioned, further 2226

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### evidence for this came to light last month at the 1 

### Uranium ISR Research Symposium at the University 2 

### of Wyoming, where it was demonstrated in not only 3 

### his study, but another study that radium, which 4 

### is the primary radionuclide of concern, is 5 

### actually reduced following uranium recovery in 6 

### groundwater restoration. 7 

### Now, evidence for this is actually 8 

### provided in the 2009 USGS study on restoration at 9 

### Texas ISR facilities, which is cited on numerous 10 

### occasions in the proposed rule. That study 11 

### showed that in 100 percent of the more than 70 12 

### production areas that were evaluated, the radium 13 

### concentration was above the drinking water 14 

### standard prior to mining, which comes as no 15 

### surprise to those of us in the room. 16 

### But what's more important here is that 17 

### the concentration was reduced below the pre18 

### mining levels in 96 percent of those more than 70 19 

### production areas evaluated following uranium 20 

### recovery in groundwater restoration. 21 

### So, the process of recovering the uranium 2227

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### and restoring the groundwater resulted in a 1 

### reduction in the primary constituent associated 2 

### with radiological dose from groundwater in almost 3 

### every well field. This does not point to the 4 

### need for additional rules on the basis of risk of 5 

### radiological exposure. 6 

### Rather than considering the scientific 7 

### evidence that demonstrates that uranium ISR can 8 

### be conducted safely, the proposed rule resorts to 9 

### references to reports prepared by non10 

### governmental organizations and others who are 11 

### opposed to uranium ISR to support its beliefs. 12 

### For example, instead of referencing the 13 

### finding in New Reg CR 6733, that there has never 14 

### been an off-site impact attributed to an 15 

### excursion, the proposed rule references a report 16 

### instead, by the Natural Resources Defense 17 

### Council, an avowed opponent of ISR, called 18 

### Nuclear Fuels Dirty Beginnings for support for 19 

### the belief that existing regulations are 20 

### insufficient. 21 

### Finally, the proposed rule significantly 2228

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### underestimates its implementation cost to the ISR 1 

### industry. While it states that it will only 2 

### cause a 5 percent reduction in annual domestic 3 

### uranium production, this figure is based on 4 

### erroneous baseline production rate of 9.5 million 5 

### pounds per year, which is twice the actual amount 6 

### produced by all domestic uranium recovery 7 

### facilities. 8 

### The economic analysis also fails to 9 

### account for the cost of maintaining financial 10 

### assurance for an additional 30 years, despite the 11 

### fact that well field and processing facility 12 

### decommissioning would not be able to occur until 13 

### the end of the long-term stability monitoring 14 

### period. 15 

### In summary, the EPA has not used 16 

### scientific data to demonstrate that the proposed 17 

### rule is needed, but instead, has resorted to 18 

### emotional arguments to propose a rule that will 19 

### not improve public safety and has not adequately 20 

### evaluated the cost of implementation to the ISR 21 

### industry. 2229

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### I thank you for your time this evening 1 

### and urge EPA to reconsider the need for 2 

### additional regulation, or at a minimum, provide a 3 

### specific scientific explanation for the purpose 4 

### and need for the proposed rule, and an accurate 5 

### estimate of the consequences on domestic uranium 6 

### production. Thank you. 7 

### (Bell rings) 8 

### MR. PEAKE: Good timing (Laughter). 9 

### (Discussion off the record) 10 

### MR. MINTER: Jack, thank you very much. 11 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 12 

### MR. PEAKE: Can we have a copy of your -- 13 

### MR. MINTER: I just want to emphasize 14 

### that I really appreciate people staying within 15 

### the five minutes. Folks have obviously maybe 16 

### done some rehearsing, so that helps keep us on 17 

### time here and on schedule. So I really, really 18 

### appreciate that and hope that everyone can remain 19 

### in five minutes this evening. 20 

### I'd like to call up our next scheduled 21 

### speaker, and that would be William Goranson. 2230

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### William, if you could spell your complete name 1 

### and state who you're representing for the court 2 

### reporter this evening, please. 3 

### MR. GORANSON: My name is William, W-I-L4 

### L-I-A-M, Goranson, G-O-R-A-N-S-O-N. I am the 5 

### president and chief operating officer for Uranerz 6 

### Energy Corporation. I first want to thank the 7 

### agency for the opportunity to provide public 8 

### comment. Uranerz will also be submitting 9 

### detailed written comments prior to the deadline. 10 

### Uranerz Energy Corporation is a Wyoming 11 

### based uranium mining company that utilizes the 12 

### in-situ recovery process for producing uranium. 13 

### We commenced commercial operations just over a 14


### year ago. 15 

### Although I have not had an opportunity to 16 

### review the over 2,500 pages of supporting 17 

### documents cited by EPA in its proposed 18 

### rulemaking, I have reviewed portions of them, as 19 

### well as the meeting notes of the May, 2010 public 20 

### meetings held here in Casper, as well as other 21 

### locations. 2231

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### And from my reading, it appears that the 1 

### original intent of the proposed rulemaking was to 2 

### quantify a generally applicable standards that 3 

### NRC in agreement states are currently enforcing 4 

### through policy, guidance and license conditions. 5 

### However, it also appears that EPA 6 

### significantly expanded the scope of the proposed 7 

### rulemaking to incorporate detailed and limiting 8 

### implementation requirements that under the 9 

### current version of the 40 CFR 192 rules are 10 

### clearly delegated to the regulatory agencies such 11


### as the NRC. 12 

### My understanding of the generally 13 

### applicable standards, EPA has grossly exceeded 14 

### its authority (Inaudible), and has crossed the 15 

### line into authorities of the NRC in the agreement 16


### states. 17 

### Also in this proposed rulemaking, EPA has 18 

### entangled (Inaudible) into the Safe Drinking 19 

### Water Act requirements that are regulated by the 20 

### state supremacy. It is not a stretch of the 21 

### imagination that this regulatory process will 2232

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### become more encumbered by overlapping authorities 1 

### and potentially jurisdictional disputes. 2 

### Where the nexus of these overlapping 3 

### authorities will occur, in my opinion, is in the 4 

### proposed Part 192 50.53 Section titled 5 

### Monitoring. In every aspect of the proposed 6 

### section, there already exists rules under the 7 

### state promissory programs in Wyoming, Nebraska, 8 

### Texas and New Mexico that address baseline 9 

### operational restoration stability monitoring 10 

### programs. In general, NRC enforces these same 11 

### monitoring requirements that are consistent with 12 

### the state programs through license conditions. 13 

### Though there is duplicative oversight, 14 

### the requirements are aligned so that there is no 15 

### need for the state to change their rules, nor are 16 

### there any significant gaps created. This 17 

### arrangement has been in place for over 30 years, 18 

### and in the background of the rulemaking, EPA even 19 

### acknowledges that there has been no documented 20 

### instance where the USDW has been impacted. 21 

### There is a strong performance history 2233

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### between the uranium industry, NRC and the states 1 

### that support the fact that existing programs are 2 

### working and they are working well. However, in 3 

### the development of the proposed rule, there is a 4 

### significant historical record in the public 5 

### domain that I feel the EPA has failed to 6 

### consider. Others will discuss that later. 7 

### In my opinion, had EPA engaged 8 

### stakeholders in the development of these proposed 9 

### rules, including the affected states, NRC and the 10 

### industry, the proposed rules would look 11 

### significantly different, but work better, while 12 

### acknowledging existing programs. 13 

### Given the jurisdictional overlap, I 14 

### believe strongly that EPA's lack of consultation 15 

### with the agreement states and the non-agreement 16 

### states with the USC promissory is a real problem. 17 

### EPA has not considered the cost of those states 18 

### to incorporate these programs necessary to 19 

### implement these proposed new requirements. 20 

### Secondly, in reviewing the economic 21 

### analysis, though thorough, failed on many points 2234

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### regarding the economic impacts of the proposed 1 

### rules on the uranium industry. Consultation with 2 

### the industry prior to rushing the publication 3 

### could have strengthened that analysis and could 4


### have created a better set of rules. 5 

### As written, it is my opinion that the 6 

### proposed rules are duplicative of the existing 7 

### programs, and in some cases, counter to existing 8 

### programs, and in my opinion, also, totally 9 

### unworkable with unrealistic expectations for a 10 

### risk that is not adequately characterized or 11 

### quantified. In effect, it would seem that these 12 

### rules were written in search of a problem. 13 

### I just want to reiterate that on June 14 

### 2nd, 2014 in a press conference, EPA 15 

### administrator Gina McCarthy stated that the 16 

### strategy to meet its clean power program is to 17 

### give the states the opportunity to shift their 18 

### alliance to no carbon sources like nuclear 19 

### energy, noting, and I quote her, "Our nuclear 20 

### fleet continues to provide zero carbon base load 21 

### power." 2235

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### In the supporting economic analysis, EPA 1 

### confirms the proposed rulemaking will have a 2 

### material cost impact. In our review, or in my 3 

### review, I believe that the material impact is 4 

### significant enough to make uranium produced 5 

### domestically uncompetitive with foreign sources. 6 

### Uranium is the only fuel that can be used 7 

### in existing domestic nuclear fleet, and this 8 

### proposed rulemaking will make the cost of 9 

### producing domestically high enough to discourage 10 

### investment and send money offshore. 11 

### Thank you for your time. 12 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 13


### MR. PEAKE: Thanks. 14 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, William. 15 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 16 

### MR. GORANSON: I made some hand markups. 17 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: That's fine. Great. 18 

### Thank you so much. 19 

### MR. MINTER: I'd like to call up our next 20 

### scheduled speaker, Kevin Frederick. 21 

### MR. FREDERICK: I thought I was number 2236

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### six. 1 

### MR. MINTER: I think we are at number 2 

### six. 3


### MR. FREDERICK: Oh. 4 

### MR. MINTER: So Kevin, if you could spell 5 

### your complete name and state who you're 6 

### representing for the court reporter this evening. 7 

### Thank you. 8 

### MR. FREDERICK: Sure. Kevin Frederick. 9 

### K-E-V-I-N, F-R-E-D-E-R-I-C-K. Can you hear okay? 10 

### (No response heard) 11 

### MR. FREDERICK: Good evening. I'm Kevin 12 

### Frederick, administrator of the water quality 13 

### division with the Department of Environmental 14 

### Quality, or DEQ, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. 15 

### On behalf of the Department's Director, 16 

### Todd Parfitt, I'd like to thank the EPA for the 17 

### opportunity to provide comment on the proposed 18 

### rule here in Casper. We believe it's important 19


### that EPA hear the comments of those most affected 20 

### by the proposed rule, including those of 21 

### landowners, industry and state and local 2237

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### governments here in Wyoming, the largest producer 1 

### of uranium in the country. 2 

### For that reason, DEQ would like to offer 3 

### the following comments and observations on EPA's 4 

### proposed rule. The state of Wyoming has been 5 

### involved in the regulation and oversight of in6 

### situ uranium mining, including post-mining 7 

### groundwater restoration since the Wyoming 8 

### legislature first passed a series of laws more 9 

### than 30 years ago governing the permitting of the 10 

### in-situ mining operations, establishing the 11 

### requirements for monitoring the reporting, and 12 

### provisions to ensure that groundwater impacted by 13 

### mining operations is restored through the 14 

### application of best practical technology. 15 

### Statutes, rules and guidelines have been 16 

### developed and are updated to meet the challenges 17 

### of protecting the environment. Notably, in many 18 

### cases, Wyoming already requires more stringent 19 

### groundwater restoration than the Federal Safe 20 

### Drinking Water Act. 21 

### Wyoming requires restoration of 2238

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### groundwater affected by in-situ mining and 1 

### operations regardless if the operation occurs 2 

### within underground sources of drinking water or 3 

### other groundwater not suitable for drinking 4


### water. 5 

### To my knowledge, the proposed rule is 6 

### EPA's first foray into regulation in this area. 7 

### And the DEQ has had a long and successful 8 

### relationship with the EPA's regional office in 9 

### Denver, both historically recognizing the 10 

### department's longstanding authority in this area. 11 

### DEQ is surprised that EPA did not consult 12 

### with our state program officials familiar with 13 

### groundwater restoration technologies and 14 

### challenges prior to developing this proposed 15 

### rule. Consultation would have given EPA the 16 

### benefit of Wyoming's expertise and given EPA a 17 

### better understanding of the effectiveness of 18 

### Wyoming's regulations. 19 

### At a minimum, consultation with states 20 

### should have occurred to allow the proposed rule 21 

### to implement most effective practices of existing 2239

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### state programs. Consultation is mandated by 1 

### executive order and is consistent with the 2 

### principles of cooperative federalism. 3 

### Unfortunately, EPA's failure to engage in 4 

### meaningful dialogue with the states is an ongoing 5 

### problem, particularly in the area of 6 

### environmental regulation. DEQ is not comfortable 7 

### that the proposed rule adequately evaluates the 8 

### environmental benefit alleged to accrue from the 9 

### proposed rule, nor the additional expense 10 

### required to pursue that benefit. 11 

### It's important to understand that 12 

### regardless of the level of any groundwater 13 

### restoration standard, the ability to achieve 14 

### those standards is ultimately dependent upon the 15 

### degree to which remediation technologies can 16 

### achieve those levels of cleanup. Even under 17 

### ideal conditions, some contaminants are extremely 18 

### recalcitrant to restoration to even baseline 19 

### quality. 20 

### While the proposed rule allows for 21 

### alternative concentration limits, or ACLs, and 2240

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### complete restoration may simply be technically or 1 

### economically infeasible in some situations. 2 

### Nonetheless, the public should be provided an 3 

### opportunity to comment on any proposed ACL under 4 

### this proposed rule. 5 

### In 2009, with the support of our governor 6 

### in industry, Wyoming's legislature appropriated 7 

### $1.6 million to the University of Wyoming, School 8 

### of Energy Resources to in part, begin development 9 

### and testing on new in-situ mining remediation 10 

### technologies that could be more efficient, 11 

### effective and affordable than is presently the 12



### case. 13 

### We would encourage EPA to seriously 14 

### consider whether the additional cost to industry 15 

### and regulators to implement the proposed rule may 16 

### be better invested in expediting the development 17 

### and implementation of these and other new or 18 

### emerging technologies. 19 

### We've identified other areas of concern 20 

### that I will mention just briefly, but with the 21 

### understanding that a more detailed, written 2241

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### comment will be provided before the closing of 1 

### the public comment period. 2 

### Namely, the proposed rule should provide 3 

### more flexibility to allow science to guide 4 

### regulations by accounting precise specific 5 

### conditions which may differ significantly from 6 

### one location to another. For instance, the 7 

### proposed regulation should take into account each 8 

### site's unique characteristics in setting 9 

### requirements for post-closure monitoring and 10 

### other monitoring requirements. 11 

### The regulations should eliminate 12 

### confusion of which groundwater restorations are 13 

### applicable by simply adopting one reference, 14


### rather than several. There are also comments and 15 

### questions that we will provide, regarding the 16 

### basis for and the efficacy of the 30 year 17 

### stabilization monitoring requirement. 18 

### To address DEQ's and other's comments, 19 

### DEQ believes that EPA should withdraw the 20 

### proposed rule, consult with state regulators with 21 

### scientific and practical experience in this 2242

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### field. Withdrawal would also allow EPA to gather 1 

### more scientific support and foundation for any 2 

### future proposed rule. Greater knowledge would 3 

### allow EPA to better determine the most effective 4 

### regulatory path forward. Thank you. 5 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 6 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Kevin. I'd like 7 

### to call up our next speaker, Dan Watkins. 8 

### MR. WATKINS: I don't think you'll need 9 

### your timer for me. 10 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. (Laughter) Dan, if 11 

### you could spell your complete name and state who 12 

### you're representing for the court reporter this 13 

### evening, please. 14 

### MR. WATKINS: My name is Dan Watkins, D15 

### A-N, W-A-T-K-I-N-S. I'm the HSE manager for 16 

### Douglas Exploration. Our company is a drill 17 

### service provider. We provide various types of 18 

### drilling. Tonight, I would like to focus on our 19 

### work involved in in-situ uranium mining and how 20 

### the passage of this proposal would directly 21 

### affect our company. 2243

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### During the past years, work at various 1 

### uranium mines has been a substantial amount of 2 

### our revenue. In 2012 and 2013, this work 3 

### provided 22 to 25 percent of our income. As of 4 

### today, in 2015, it represents 28.7 percent for 5 

### the year, and we haven't been in a uranium mine 6 

### since March. 7 

### With the passage of this proposal and the 8 

### obvious financial burden that it will impose upon 9 

### uranium companies and their ability to affordably 10 

### mine, would directly affect our company's bottom 11 

### line. Our hope is that the proposal will change 12 

### to allow uranium to remain a strong source of 13 

### income for our company, as well as enable uranium 14 

### companies to keep costs at a feasible level, to 15 

### continue to mine U.S. uranium, and avoid 16 

### importation of the commodity from foreign 17 

### sources. May science and common sense prevail. 18 

### Thank you for your time and 19 

### consideration. 20 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 21 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 2244

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### MR. MINTER: Dan, thank you. 1 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 2 

### MR. MINTER: I'd like to call up our next 3 

### scheduled speaker, Oscar Paulson. Oscar, if you 4 

### could spell your complete name for us and state 5 

### who you're representing for the court reporter 6 

### this evening. Thank you. 7 

### MR. PAULSON: My name is Oscar Paulson, 8 

### O-S-C-A-R, P-A-U-L-S-O-N, and I am the Facility 9 

### Supervisor of Kennecott Uranium Company's 10 

### Sweetwater Uranium project located in Sweetwater 11 

### County, Wyoming. 12 

### I am a registered professional geologist 13 

### in the State of Wyoming and a radiation safety 14 

### officer with over 35 years of experience in 15 

### uranium recovery, including in-situ uranium 16 

### recovery as well as over 20 years' of experience 17 

### in radiation safety. 18 

### This rulemaking should be withdrawn, 19 

### since the risk posed by the uranium recovery 20 

### operations that this rule will are insignificant 21 

### and do not merit the degree of regulation 2245

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### proposed in the rulemaking. The preamble states 1 

### that the rulemaking will "will reduce the human 2 

### health risk that could result from experience to 3 

### radionuclides in well water used for drinking or 4 

### agriculture in areas located downgrading from an 5


### ISR." 6 

### It defines the human health risk as 7 

### cancer, stating, "because radionuclides are human 8 

### carcinogens, the main health risk averted would 9 

### be cancer." The following three papers whose 10 

### primary author is Dr. John Boice of Vanderbilt 11 

### University in Nashville, Tennessee have shown no 12 

### increases in cancer mortality to individuals, 13 

### members of the general public, to be specific, 14 

### residing in areas containing uranium recovery 15 

### operations as compared to similar areas lacking 16 

### such operations. The papers are as follows: 17 

### Cancer and Non-Cancer Mortality in 18 

### Populations Living Near Uranium and Vanadium 19 

### Mining and Milling Operations in Montrose County, 20 

### Colorado from 1950 to 2000, published in 21 

### "Radiation Research" in 2007. 2246

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### This paper concludes: Between 1950 and 1 

### 2000, a total of 1,877 cancer deaths occurred in 2 

### the population residing in Montrose County 3 

### compared with 1,903 expected, based on general 4 

### population rates for Colorado. There were 11,837 5 

### cancer deaths in the five comparison counties 6 

### during the same 51 year period compared with 7 

### 12,135 expected. There was no difference between 8 

### the total cancer mortality rates in Montrose 9 

### County and those in the comparison counties. 10 

### And again, this paper discusses mortality 11 

### among members of the general public/residents in 12 

### Montrose County, Colorado, the whole of the 13 

### Uravan uranium mill, and concludes that there was 14 

### no difference in cancer mortality between 15 

### Montrose County and the neighboring counties. 16 

### Again, this shows no risk. 17 

### The second paper, "Cancer Mortality in 18 

### the Texas County with Prior Uranium Mining and 19 

### Milling Activities, 1950 to 2001, Journal of 20 

### Radiological Protection, 2003." 21 

### This paper concludes overall, 1,223 2247

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### cancer deaths occurred in the population residing 1 

### in Karnes County -- this is the home of a number 2 

### of uranium recovery operations from 1950 to 2001, 3 

### compared with 1,392 expected, based on general 4 

### population rates for the U.S. 5 

### There were 3,857 cancer deaths in the 6 

### four control counties during the same 52 year old 7 

### period compared with 4,389 expected. There was 8 

### no difference between the total cancer mortality 9 

### rates in Karnes County and those in the control 10 

### counties. There were no significant increases in 11 

### Karnes County for any cancer when comparisons 12 

### were made with either the U.S. population, the 13 

### State of Texas or the control counties. 14 

### In particular, deaths due to cancers of 15 

### the lung, bone, liver and kidney were not more 16 

### frequent in Karnes County than in the control 17 

### counties. These are the cancers of a priori 18 

### interest, given that uranium might be expected to 19 

### concentrate in these tissues more than others. 20 

### Further, any radium intake would deposit 21 

### primarily in the bone and radon progeny primarily 2248

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### in the lung. Deaths from all cancers combined 1 

### also were not increased in Karnes County, and 2 

### shortly after uranium activities began in two 3 

### later time periods. No unusual patterns of 4 

### cancer mortality could be seen in Karnes County 5 

### over a period of 50 years, suggesting that the 6 

### uranium mining and milling operations had not 7 

### increased cancer rates among residents. 8 

### Karnes County, Texas hosted three uranium 9 

### mills being Deweeseville Falls City Mill, The 10 

### Conoco Conquista Mill and the Chevron Panna Maria 11 

### Mill, as well as an in-situ uranium recovery 12 

### operation. This paper concludes that these 13 

### operations did not increase cancer mortality in 14 

### members of the public in Karnes County, Texas, as 15 

### compared to four control counties. 16 

### Third paper, a cohort study of uranium 17 

### millers and miners of Grants, New Mexico, 1979 to 18 

### 2005 from the "Journal of Radiological 19 

### Protection." Boice concludes, no statistic 20 

### significant elevation in any cause of death was 21 

### seen among the 904 non-miners employed at the 2249

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### Grants Uranium Mill. Again, a cohort of 718 1 

### millers from maximum exposed group concluded 2 

### there was no significant increase in cancer of a 3 

### priori interest. 4 

### And I guess I'm pretty much out of time, 5 

### so I will leave it at that, and just say that 6 

### these papers and others show that the risk are 7 

### not present to justify this rulemaking. Thank 8 

### you. Are there any questions? 9 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: No. Thank you. 10 

### MR. PAULSON: I have the papers here as 11 

### well as my statement. 12 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Okay, great. Thank you 13


### so much. 14 

### MR. PAULSON: There you go. 15 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: I appreciate that. 16 

### Thank you. 17 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Oscar. I'd like 18 

### to call up our next scheduled speaker. That 19


### would be Steven Brown. 20 

### MR. BROWN: Thank you. 21 

### MR. MINTER: Steven, if you could spell 2250

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### your complete name and say who you are 1 

### representing. 2 

### MR. BROWN: Yes, Steven, S-T-E-V-E-N, 3 

### Brown, B-R-O-W-N. I thank you for the opportunity 4 

### and good evening. My name is Steve Brown and I'm 5 

### the Chair of the Uranium Committee of the 6 

### Colorado Mining Association. 7 

### The Colorado Mining Association was 8 

### established in 1876 and is a trade association 9 

### whose membership includes over a thousand 10 

### members, 200 companies and comprises both small 11 

### and large enterprises engaged in the exploration 12 

### for and production and refining of metals, coal, 13 

### oil, shale and industrial minerals. 14 

### Professionally, I'm a health physicist, 15 

### certified by the American Board of Health Physics 16 

### and a diplomat of the American Academy of Health 17 

### Physics with over 40 years' of experience in 18 

### mining and other energy related industries. 19 

### A health physicist is a physical 20 

### scientist whose job it is to manage the 21 

### beneficial use of ionizing radiation while 2251

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### protecting workers and the public from potential 1 

### hazards. Additionally, recently, I've been 2 

### elected to the board of directors of the American 3 

### Academy of Health Physics, which is the national 4 

### organization which oversees the examination 5 

### process, standards of practice and ethics of 6 

### health physicists in the United States. 7 

### My brief comments this evening are 8 

### directed at EPA's justifications for this 9 

### proposed rulemaking related to the reduction of 10 

### doses and risks assumed by EPA to be cancer 11 

### related that are associated with radionuclides, 12 

### and in particular, uranium as a carcinogen. 13 

### EPA provides very little justification 14 

### that the rulemaking is necessary and states that 15 

### to reduce human health risks that could result 16 

### from exposures to radionuclides in well water 17 

### used for drinking and agricultural use, Federal 18 

### Register, page 4157. 19 

### But then, it continues in that same 20 

### paragraph to state that the EPA, "was unable to 21 

### estimate how many cancer deaths would be averted 2252

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### or when they would occur." As a general matter, 1 

### the supplementary information section preceding 2 

### the revisions to Title 4192 seems to exhibit a 3 

### lack of applicable justification. 4 

### Instead, EPA appears to rely on its 5 

### beliefs. For example, in this section, EPA used 6 

### various forms of words and phrases such as 7 

### believe, could occur, could cause, potential for, 8 

### dozens of times to justify this rulemaking in the 9 

### interest of human health and associated risks. 10 

### With all due respect, science and 11 

### engineering are not religions based on belief. A 12 

### most telling statement by EPA, Federal Register 13 

### page 4164, is the following. “We find it 14 

### difficult to characterize the probability or 15 

### magnitude of future contamination problems, or 16 

### the cost incurred in remediating such future 17 

### contamination.” 18 

### Regulators, citizen of the United States, 19 

### Steve Brown, I would believe that the regulators 20 

### are required to conclude, determine or otherwise 21 

### affirmatively state their analysis and results. 2253

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### For example, the Atomic Energy Act of the United 1 

### States, Section 275c.(1) states the following: 2 

### "Before the promulgation of any rule 3 

### pursuant to this section, the administrator, 4 

### i.e., your boss, shall publish the proposed rule 5 

### in the Federal Register, together with a 6 

### statement of the research, analysis and other 7 

### available information to support such proposed 8


### rules." 9 

### It does not appear, at least to me, that 10 

### EPA has made an attempt to perform the 11 

### scientifically based quantitative risk analysis 12 

### in support of this rulemaking. However, it is 13 

### noted that in Section D 2, Federal Register, 14 

### beginning on page 4165 under the heading, What 15 

### Analysis has EPA Done to Support the Proposal, 16 

### the EPA references a 2012 draft report entitled 17 

### "Groundwater Modeling Studies of In-situ Leaching 18 

### Facilities: An Evaluation of Doses and Risks to 19 

### Off-Site Receptors from Contaminated 20 

### Groundwater." Revision to, and the number is 21 

### here in the comments. 2254

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### As the key technical basis document, 1 

### unfortunately, in my view, this report actually 2 

### adds no supportive analysis relative to the 3 

### claimed purpose of this rulemaking. The report 4 

### presents radiological doses projected from over 5 

### 60 operational accident scenarios involving 6 

### groundwater modeling that includes surface spills 7 

### and catastrophic failures, ruptures and 8 

### excursions. 9 

### These scenarios do not represent the 10 

### proposed rulemaking, which is focused on post11 

### mining "protection, restoration and stability," 12 

### Federal Register, page 4156, not the accident 13 

### scenarios presented in this report, which it is 14 

### conservatively assumed that all drinking water, 15 

### vegetation irrigation, livestock water supply 16 

### originate from a well 528 feet down gradient from 17 

### the facility -- I've not been able to find where 18 

### the 528 feet or how a facility is defined in the 19 

### report -- contaminated with suspension uranium 20 

### and radium. 21 

### The radionuclide source terms -- and this 2255

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### is an important basis of this report -- the 1 

### radionuclide source terms for all of these 2 

### scenarios, that is the concentration of uranium 3 

### and radium in the solutions beginning at the 4 

### site, and then migrate through the environment to 5 

### this well that were the input to the groundwater 6 

### models to determine concentrations, and 7 

### therefore, intake of humans at this well is based 8 

### on maximum concentrations from the ranges of 9 

### radionuclides in the mining solution, ("pregnant 10 

### lixiviant") within the production zones as 11 

### reported in the literature for numerous sites in 12 

### groundwater over 30 years. 13 

### In other words, the basis of this risk 14 

### assessment is the is that people are using mining 15 

### solutions diluted by just 520 feet of groundwater 16 

### for dispersion, and 100 percent of domestic water 17 

### needs are supplied by use of mining solutions. 18 

### (Bell rings) 19 

### MR. BROWN: And my time has run out, and 20 

### I apologize for extended time. I will humbly 21 

### request some additional time tomorrow morning. 2256

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### Thank you very much. 1 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you very much. Our 2 

### next scheduled speaker is Nancy Standler. Nancy, 3 

### if you can spell your complete name and state who 4 

### you are representing for the court reporter this 5 

### evening. Thank you. 6 

### MS. STANDLER: I'm Nancy Standler, N-A-N7 

### C-Y, S-T-A-N-D-L-E-R, MD, PhD, and I'm here at 8 

### the request of Wyoming Mining Association. Given 9 

### the history of people tearing through talks, I 10 

### drew lines through mine to make it shorter, if 11 

### you'll accept the big version in written form. 12 

### My name is Dr. Nancy Standler. I'm a 13 

### practicing board certified pathologist with an MD 14 

### in residency training from the University of 15 

### Pittsburgh. I also possess a PhD in biophysics 16 

### from what was then, the Department of Radiation, 17 

### Biology and Biophysics at the University of 18


### Rochester. 19 

### I took virtually all of the available 20 

### coursework on radiation biology offered by the 21 

### department as part of my PhD program. Okay? And 2257

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### then the informal definition of who I am, which 1 

### is not in the written thing is -- uranium is not 2 

### very toxic. Our real diseases -- we're swimming 3 

### in experts. We have loads of hypertension 4 

### experts, loads of diabetes experts. 5 

### I seem to be the only MD PhD in the 6 

### country who knows anything about uranium. And 7 

### so, with great reluctance over many years, I have 8 

### been intermittently the uranium expert for the 9 

### country, by virtue of not having ducked behind a 10 

### rock fast enough (Laughter). 11 

### So, at any rate, so that's the context. 12 

### So, I think it's probably been 20 some years I've 13 

### been involved with this stuff in one way or 14 

### another, but intermittently. I'm mostly a board 15 

### certified pathologist working in Cedar City. 16 

### Before beginning this specific discussion 17 

### of uranium toxicity, I believe it is worth 18 

### placing the discussion in context by mentioning a 19 

### paper, "Five Hundred Life-Saving Interventions 20 

### and Their Cost Effectiveness," written by Tengs 21 

### et al and I give the reference. 2258

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### This paper found an extraordinarily large 1 

### difference in cost for different interventions 2 

### from essentially zero dollars per year of life 3 

### saved with the use flammability standards for 4 

### children's sleepwear, size zero to 6x, to 34 5 

### billion per year of life saved for radionuclide 6 

### emission control at uranium fuel cycle 7 

### facilities. 8 

### So, the paper is included there, and the 9 

### point of the paper is that some things we do are 10 

### very helpful at very little cost, and some things 11 

### we do are a little bit helpful at an enormous 12 

### cost, and there are like 12 orders of magnitude 13 

### difference in the cost of -- not a factor of 12, 14 

### 12 orders of magnitude difference in cost between 15 

### what it takes to save one year of life for 16 

### somebody with an intervention. And I hadn't seen 17 

### it pointed out as clearly as this paper did, so I 18 

### included it for you. 19 

### Where we will be in these types of costs 20 

### with the uranium groundwater issue is, of course, 21 

### implicit in the discussion presented in this 2259

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### conference. I would hope that we could achieve 1 

### some level of common sense on the issues. 2 

### Concern about uranium toxicity goes back 3 

### to the aftermath of World War II, when people 4 

### first appreciated the devastating power of 5 

### nuclear weapons. During this 60 year period, the 6 

### United States has also developed increasingly 7 

### strict regulations regarding uranium. 8 

### The Agency for Toxic Substances and 9 

### Disease Registry, which is an agency of the 10 

### United States government, has published the most 11 

### comprehensive review availability on uranium 12 

### toxicity. This is document is the 526 page 13 

### toxicological profile for uranium, which I've got 14 

### in here for you, for which a revision was issued 15 

### in February, 2013, and which uses 830 uranium 16 

### references. So, we do have literature out there 17 

### to look at. This work incorporates information 18 

### for both human and animal studies and summarizes 19 

### the results in their part 2.2 summary of health 20 

### effects. And we've got the reference. 21 

### On page 109 of toxicological profile for 2260

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### uranium, the issue of death related to oral 1 

### uranium exposure is considered. And here's what 2 

### they say: There are no reports of human death 3 

### from oral exposure to uranium compounds. 4 

### However, data from animal studies demonstrate 5 

### that soluble uranium compounds at very high 6 

### intake levels can be lethal to animals through 7 

### the oral route for all durations of exposure. 8 

### Uranium compounds at these concentrations 9 

### are not palatable to animals and require 10 

### sweetening. And then, one of the things which 11 

### I'm not going to do in detail here, but I have, 12 

### was I ran an estimate based on what they were 13 

### using for the 50 percent mortality rate, the LD 14 

### 50 level based on animal studies to extrapolate 15 

### how much it would be for people, and it looked 16 

### for a 70 kilogram man, it would be about 8.4 17 

### grams of uranium in a single dose to reach a 18 

### possible LD 50 acute dose. 19 

### And I then, just for comparison, took the 20 

### 30 microgram per liter uranium drinking water 21 

### standard and figured out that that was 280,000 2261

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### liters of water containing the maximal allowable 1 

### concentration in the drinking water to be a 2 

### single dose, just to kind of block it. And for 3 

### people who didn't know what that meant, that was 4 

### roughly a Q21 feet on the side (sic). So, not 5 

### the type of water that you're likely to drink in 6


### the next 24 hours. 7 

### MR. PEAKE: Dr. Standler, could you go 8 

### ahead and conclude your testimony here, please? 9 

### DR. STANDLER: Why don't I just do this? 10 

### And I'm sorry. I was trying to cut my -- so I 11 

### didn't do that to you. I have the rest of my 12 

### testimony in writing here, and I'll just pass it 13 

### to you. And you guys can use it at your leisure. 14 

### Thank you. 15 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 16 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. Ma'am, if I can 17 

### request that when you submit -- are you going to 18 

### be submitting an additional comment in writing? 19 

### DR. STANDLER: Well, these are most of 20 

### them. I was going to try to grab one five 21 

### minutes (sic) to make another argument. What 2262

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### would you like? 1 

### MR. PEAKE: Well, in this -- 2 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Electronically or -- 3 

### MR. PEAKE: Yeah. Well, in this 4 

### information, it would -- 5 

### DR. STANDLER: Well, this -- 6 

### MR. PEAKE: It would be beneficial if you 7 

### could highlight the things that you feel are the 8 

### most pertinent to our decision. You know? 9 

### DR. STANDLER: Okay. 10


### MR. PEAKE: To make sure that -- 11 

### DR. STANDLER: In addition to -- 12


### MR. PEAKE: -- to make sure that we don't 13 

### miss what it is that you feel is most important. 14 

### DR. STANDLER: Okay, okay. 15 

### MR. PEAKE: So, because you have quite a 16 

### number of pages there. 17 

### DR. STANDLER: Yeah, right. I did make 18 

### the references in here at the front with the page 19 

### number references. Do you need more than that? 20 

### MR. PEAKE: Well, that would be helpful. 21 

### DR. STANDLER: Yeah, so you've got that, 2263

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### and you've got this life-saving intervention 1 

### thing. And then the rest was so if you wanted to 2 

### check their data farther back -- 3 

### MR. PEAKE: Okay. 4 

### DR. STANDLER: There is a section written 5 

### -- there is a very low level section written 6 

### about the health effects, and then there's a 7 

### bigger section for physicians. And those are the 8 

### two important sections of the thing. Okay? 9 

### MR. PEAKE: Okay, thank you. 10 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 11 

### DR. STANDLER: Do you still need me to 12 

### highlight or not? Because I quoted the critical 13



### -- 14 

### (Simultaneous discussion) 15 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: If you'll be providing 16


### that? 17


### DR. STANDLER: Yes. 18


### MR. PEAKE: Yeah. 19 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 20 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 21 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you very much. 2264

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### DR. STANDLER: Thank you. 1 

### MALE SPEAKER: I apologize. I forgot to 2 

### turn these in. 3


### MR. PEAKE: Sure. 4 

### MALE SPEAKER: Thank you very much. 5 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you very much. 6 

### MALE SPEAKER: Okay. 7 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. I'd like to call up 8 

### our next scheduled speaker, and that is Jim 9 

### Willox. Can you please come up? 10 

### Jim, if you could spell your complete 11 

### name and state who you're representing for the 12 

### court reporter this evening. Thank you. 13 

### MR. WILLOX: Thank you. My name is Jim 14 

### Willox, J-I-M, W-I-L-L-O-X. And I'm a Converse 15 

### County commissioner from the neighboring Converse 16 

### County. 17 

### Converse County is the home to Cameco's 18 

### largest in-situ mine in the United States, and a 19 

### friend and neighbor and employer that's a 20 

### significant part of our economy in Converse 21 

### County. And this proposed rule could end up 2265

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### having a significant negative effect to our 1 

### economy by displacing hundreds of jobs and 2 

### millions of dollars worth of payroll and 3 

### associated services. 4 

### It appears to me that this rule fails to 5 

### recognize the local impact to the economies that 6 

### we face as communities, not only in Converse 7 

### County, but also in Natrona and our surrounding 8 

### neighbors. It is a fairly regular theme that 9 

### you'll hear from local government is these 10 

### federal rules fail to significantly or adequately 11 

### account for local economic conditions and 12 

### impacts, and almost all of them end up having a 13 

### negative effect on our local economies. 14 

### Wyoming is a multiple use state. We 15 

### believe in multiple use of all of our resources, 16 

### whether they be energy or environment or water or 17 

### recreation, and the significant rule proposal by 18 

### the EPA in this situation does nothing but reduce 19 

### the multiple use aspect of Wyoming and our 20 

### economy and our way of life. 21 

### I was born a rancher south of Douglas, 2266

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### and I'm a fifth generation Wyomingite, and it's 1 

### been known for years that water wells around 2 

### Converse County on the north side had uranium in 3 

### it. It has been no secret that uranium is a 4 

### naturally occurring element in some of the water 5


### that's around. 6 

### It would seem to me that if the goal is 7 

### to reduce cancer by reducing the amount of 8 

### uranium levels in the water, the optimal solution 9 

### is to mine it and get it out of the water. It 10 

### doesn't seem practical or reasonable to propose a 11 

### rule that makes it harder, more expensive and 12 

### impractical to remove the uranium that is the 13 

### stated goal. 14 

### In-situ mining has been a successful 15 

### method of mining for years and is heavily 16 

### regulated already in Wyoming by the Wyoming DEQ, 17 

### and the water aspect of it is covered clearly by 18 

### the state engineer who has regulatory authority 19 

### over the groundwater in Wyoming. 20 

### We have adequate, knowledgeable and 21 

### informed people guiding the process already, and 2267

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### as is pointed out on the federal level, the 1 

### amount of oversight in the uranium industry is 2 

### significant. 3 

### As a non scientific person with only a 4 

### couple initials after my name, which is a 5 

### bachelor's of science that many have abbreviated 6 

### to shorter than that (Laughter), it seems 7 

### significant to me that this rule is arbitrary and 8 

### capricious, which is a standard that it means it 9 

### should be withdrawn and taken back. 10 

### The 30 year proposal is unreasonable and 11 

### for industries and mines that are already in 12 

### progress, changes the entire economic outlook and 13 

### assumptions they did when starting their mining. 14 

### You've heard that from previous speakers that are 15 

### ongoing or starting to open mines in Wyoming. 16 

### It would seem to me that if the goal of 17 

### this administration and the EPA is to reduce 18 

### domestic employment, negatively affect local 19 

### economies and to increase our dependence on 20 

### foreign energy, this rule and others proposed by 21 

### the EPA go a long way towards ensuring that. 2268

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### We must continue to reasonably and with 1 

### foresight, mine the resources that exist in 2 

### Wyoming. And Wyoming has proven with our local 3 

### economies, our local leaders and our local rules 4 

### can do that in a sound, scientific and 5 

### sustainable way. 6 

### So there, on behalf of the Converse 7 

### County Commissioners, we ask you to withdraw this 8 

### rule, and if you proceed forward, to be sure to 9 

### consult a lot with state government and local 10 

### government to find a way that we can help educate 11 

### the EPA on the way we've been doing that has been 12 

### successful, and to fully analyze the local 13 

### economic impacts. 14 

### I thank you for coming to Casper, Wyoming 15 

### to hold the hearing on the ground where this will 16 

### have effects, and thank you for taking your time 17 

### today. 18 

### MR. PEAKE: Okay, thank you. 19 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 20 

### MR. MINTER: Jim, thank you very much. 21 

### I'd like to call up our next scheduled speaker. 2269

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### That is Shannon Anderson. Shannon, if you can 1 

### spell your complete name and state who you're 2 

### representing for the court reporter this evening. 3 

### Thank you. 4 

### MS. ANDERSON: Shannon, S-H-A-N-N-O-N, 5 

### Anderson, A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. I'm an organizer and 6 

### a staff attorney with Powder River Basin Resource 7 

### Council. We're a Wyoming based organization. 8 

### Primarily our members are land owners who are 9 

### impacted by energy development in the state. I 10 

### will be submitting technical written comments 11 

### later this month, so I'll keep my comments today 12 

### brief. 13 

### First off, we want to thank EPA for 14 

### moving forward with these new regulations. 15 

### Groundwater protection standards specific for the 16 

### in-situ uranium industry are long overdue. 17 

### We agree with EPA that as this type of 18 

### uranium mining and milling has overtaken 19 

### conventional operations as a dominant form of 20 

### mining and milling, and it is important to make 21 

### sure that the regulations are updated to address 2270

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### this shift in technology. 1 

### I don't have to tell the people in this 2 

### room their groundwater is the life blood of the 3 

### West, and here in Wyoming, many land owners would 4 

### not be able to have water to drink or to give 5 

### their livestock without clean and plentiful 6 

### aquifers. 7 

### Unfortunately, under EPA regulations, an 8 

### aquifer can be exempted merely because it is part 9 

### of a mining permit application. There is not a 10 

### necessary demonstration that the water is of too 11 

### poor quality to be used in the future. It is 12 

### therefore, critical to have a scientifically 13 

### robust characterization of pre-mining groundwater 14 

### qualities and a plan in place to restore the 15 

### water to those conditions. 16 

### We particularly appreciate EPA's proposed 17 

### long-term monitoring requirement as a mechanism 18 

### to ensure groundwater is properly restored. We 19 

### hope EPA's proposed standards will do just that. 20 

### This action is important, given the 21 

### company's track records of delayed and failed 2271

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### restoration, excursions, leaks and spills that 1 

### have included groundwater supplies. EPA's 2 

### proposed standards are reasonable measures to 3 

### address the risks and impacts to groundwater from 4 

### in-situ operations. 5 

### Again, we look forward to submitting more 6 

### detailed comments in a couple of weeks, and we 7 

### look forward to seeing a final version of the 8 

### regulations in the near future. Thank you for 9 

### your time and attention to this important issue. 10 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 11 

### MR. MINTER: Shannon, thank you. 12


### MS. ANDERSON: Sure. 13 

### MR. MINTER: I'd like to call up our next 14 

### scheduled speaker, Brent Berg. Please come 15 

### forward. Brent, if you could spell your complete 16 

### name and state who you're representing for the 17 

### court reporter this evening. Thank you. 18 

### MR. BERG: My name is Brent, B-R-E-N-T, 19 

### Berg, B-E-R-G. I am president of Cameco 20 

### Resources of Casper, Wyoming. 21 

### Cameco Resources is America's largest 2272

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### uranium producer. Our Smith Ranch-Highland in1 

### situ uranium mine in Converse County, Wyoming is 2 

### the largest uranium operation in the United 3 

### States. We also have the North Butte in-situ 4 

### uranium mine in Campbell County, Wyoming, and the 5 

### Crow Butte in-situ uranium mine in Dawes County, 6 

### Nebraska. In addition, Cameco Resources has 7 

### potential future growth sites in Wyoming and 8 

### Nebraska, all of which are envisioned as in-situ 9 

### operations. 10 

### Cameco Resources is a U.S. corporation. 11 

### We are a wholly owned subsidiary of Cameco 12 

### Corporation of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. 13 

### Cameco's production in Canada, Kazakhstan and the 14 

### U.S. supplies about 30 percent of the uranium 15 

### needs of the U.S. nuclear power industry. 16 

### Nuclear power accounts for nearly one-fifth of 17 

### U.S. electricity and is America's largest source 18 

### of emissions free energy, far exceeding hydro, 19 

### wind and solar combined. 20 

### Scientists and other professionals from 21 

### our company, the uranium industry and academia 2273

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### will offer testimony detailing the many 1 

### scientific concerns in this effort. Let me offer 2 

### these general observations. 3 

### We believe that the proposed rule, which 4 

### features 30 years of monitoring would have 5 

### significant negative consequences to our company, 6 

### our industry, rural communities, small businesses 7 

### and the nation. 8 

### These consequences would result from a 9 

### rule, as written, that is not based on science 10 

### and that offers no quantifiable benefits to the 11 

### environment or to human health and safety. 12 

### Modern in-situ uranium mines have operated 13 

### responsibly to protect the environment and to 14 

### assure the safety of their workers and the 15 

### public. 16 

### Our North Butte mine marks its second 17 

### anniversary this month. Our Crow Butte mine has 18 

### been in commercial operation for 24 years. Our 19 

### Smith Ranch Highland mind has been in commercial 20 

### production for 27 years. During all of those 21 

### years, we have protected the groundwater. 2274

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### Further, our minds have been made 1 

### available to researchers from major universities 2 

### and the Los Alamos National Laboratory for 3 

### important groundwater studies, some of the work 4 

### partially funded by the EPA itself. 5 

### Several of these studies were recently 6 

### presented at a 2015 In-situ Recovery of Uranium 7 

### Research Symposium on April 21st at the 8 

### University of Wyoming in Laramie. These studies 9 

### have encouraging results that relate to the 10 

### effectiveness of restoration. It concerns us 11 

### that the latest research that is directly on 12 

### point is not being taken into account in the 13 

### proposed rule. 14 

### The proposed EPA rule seeks to put in 15 

### monitoring requirements that are not based on 16 

### science and is being put forward when more good 17 

### science is emerging. That would not support the 18 

### rulemaking moving forward. 19 

### We are equally concerned of the socio20 

### economic impacts of the proposed rule have not 21 

### been examined. The uranium industry has invested 2275

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### more than a billion dollars in Wyoming over the 1 

### past 10 years. From an economic impact study by 2 

### the University of Wyoming, we know that every 3 

### Cameco Resources job in Wyoming creates another 4 

### 1.6 jobs in the state. 5 

### The annual economic benefits to Wyoming, 6 

### direct and indirect from Cameco operations at 7 

### full production include 445 jobs and $59.1 8 

### million in payroll, purchases, taxes, royalties, 9 

### et cetera, each year. The study noted that jobs 10 

### and economic benefit would double under likely 11 

### expansion in a robust uranium market. 12 

### At present, jobs and production are down 13 

### as the industry manages through a depressed 14 

### market. The proposed rule would impose 30 years 15 

### of additional cost to companies, including ours, 16 

### threatening the viability of expansion and new 17 

### development, even while the long-term need for 18 

### uranium and nuclear energy remains strong. 19 

### The EPA itself concludes that U.S. 20 

### domestic uranium production will decrease with 21 

### the implementation of the proposed rule, because 2276

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### suppliers cannot pass the higher costs onto the 1 

### market, which is dominated from production in 2 

### other countries. These higher costs threaten 3 

### local jobs, tax revenues and small businesses. 4 

### Cameco Resources respectfully requests 5 

### the EPA delay the rule until science based 6 

### proposals can be developed, and social and 7 

### economic factors can be fully considered. The 8 

### consequences of a rash decision to implement 9 

### quickly are too great to push ahead with a rule 10 

### that is not based on science and that does not 11 

### take into account all of the potential impacts. 12 

### Thank you for coming to Casper and to 13 

### other cities close to America's production to 14 

### gather comments. 15 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 16 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 17 

### MR. MINTER: Brent, thank you. 18 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: That's great. Thank 19


### you. 20 

### (Discussion off the record) 21 

### MR. PEAKE: And then you'll be providing 2277

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### additional comment. 1


### MR. BERG: Yeah. 2 

### MR. PEAKE: Written comment, I presume. 3


### Great. 4 

### MR. MINTER: I would like to call up our 5 

### next scheduled speaker, Eric Grandjort. Eric, if 6 

### you could spell your complete name and state who 7 

### you're representing for the court reporter this 8 

### evening. Thank you. 9 

### MR. GRANDJORT: E-R-I-C, G-R-A-N-D-J-O10 

### R-T. Eric Grandjort. My affiliation this 11 

### evening is as a member of the public. I'm a 12 

### resident of the state of Wyoming for the last 50 13 

### years. My training and trade is a chemist -- 14 

### education and trade. I have 30 years of 15 

### experience in environmental monitoring. My 16 

### comments this evening will be general, with just 17 

### touching on a couple of the highlights that have 18 

### been mentioned already this evening. 19 

### I support the industry in the mining of 20 

### uranium in Wyoming and in the country. I'm 21 

### opposed to the rule, due to a lack of scientific 2278

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### data to support 30 years post closure monitoring. 1 

### This mirrors the wrecker regs for hazardous waste 2 

### landfill monitoring, and there is a little 3 

### correlation between a hazardous waste landfill 4 

### and a uranium mine for post closure monitoring. 5 

### We are also dealing with an exempted aquifer at 6 

### these ISR facilities. 7 

### This industry is critical to the quality 8 

### of life in Wyoming, and this industry is a 9 

### steward to the environment in this state. 10 

### Monitoring that was specified for Subpart F at 11 

### the beginning of this meeting is currently being 12 

### done under the guidance of several regulatory 13 

### agencies. 14 

### And in closing, I am employed by a 15 

### company that would benefit greatly from the 16 

### fiscal ramifications of this rule. However, I 17 

### will state again that I am strongly opposed to 18 

### this rule based on the lack of scientific 19 

### evidence. 20 

### I would like to thank you very much for 21 

### providing this forum, and I hope that we have an 2279

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### impact. 1 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 2 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 3 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Eric. 4 

### (Discussion off the record) 5 

### MR. MINTER: So, before I mention the 6 

### last speaker on my list, I just want to again 7 

### remind folks if that if you do want to speak this 8 

### evening, to make sure you're registered. And 9 

### after the next gentleman comes up, I'll be asking 10 

### to see if there's anyone else who would like to 11 

### provide verbal testimony. 12 

### So again, if you are not on the list 13 

### here, since Peter is my last one, please register 14 

### and we can include you this evening, if you have 15 

### verbal testimony. 16 

### So, our next scheduled speaker is Peter 17 

### Obermueller. Thank you. Peter, if you could 18 

### spell your complete name and state who you're 19 

### representing for the court reporter this evening. 20 

### Thank you. 21 

### MR. PEAKE: Good evening. 2280

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### MR. OBERMUELLER: Good evening. My name 1 

### is Pete Obermueller. It's P-E-T-E, O-B-E-R-M-U2 

### E-L-L-E-R. I'm the executive director of the 3 

### Wyoming County Commissioner's Association, 4 

### referred to as the WCCA throughout my testimony. 5 

### The WCCA represents the boards of county 6 

### commissioners in all 23 of Wyoming's counties, 7 

### including the seven counties where uranium mining 8 

### currently exists or is eminent. On behalf of the 9 

### WCCA, I want to take the opportunity to thank you 10 

### for extending the comment deadline on this rule 11 

### and for scheduling these hearings in Wyoming. 12 

### After all, as you have heard, we are the top 13 

### producer of uranium in the United States. 14 

### However, despite this extension, we 15 

### believe that a minimum, the rule ought to be 16 

### delayed even further to allow affected 17 

### stakeholders, including counties, sufficient time 18 

### to review the proposed rule and its ancillary 19 

### documents. We would prefer the rule be tabled 20 

### until such time as industry, EPA, DEQ and other 21 

### regulatory bodies can agree on the necessity of 2281

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### on any further regulatory requirements. 1 

### At interest to one of these counties in 2 

### particular is the EPA's economic analysis and its 3 

### treatment or lack thereof on the impacts to our 4 

### local governments, economies and the constituents 5



### we serve. 6 

### I'd like to focus my comments this 7 

### evening on three items of concern. One: That 8 

### the EPA failed to consult stakeholders in the 9 

### development of this rule. Two: That the 10 

### proposed rule is arbitrary, and three, that the 11 

### economic analysis is inadequate. And I 12 

### appreciate the extra time. (Laughter) 13 

### In Wyoming, counties serve as the legal 14 

### arm of the state and shoulder the responsibility 15 

### of carrying out many of the state's statutory and 16 

### regulatory goals. County government operates on 17 

### the front lines to ensure that our communities 18 

### are economically vibrant as well as safe, healthy 19 

### places to live. 20 

### Successfully balancing these sometimes 21 

### competing, but not mutually exclusive demands 2282

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### requires locally elected officials who understand 1 

### the needs of communities, and when necessary, a 2 

### regulatory framework that is clear, non3 

### duplicative and achievable. This is particularly 4 

### true in a state like Wyoming, where the federal 5 

### government plays an outsized role in the day-to6 

### day management of nearly half the surface and 7 

### three quarters of the sub-surface. 8 

### For this reason, Wyoming's county 9 

### commissioners are constructively engaged with 10 

### federal land management agencies at unprecedented 11 

### levels. There are active partners of the Wyoming 12 

### Department of Environmental Quality, even on 13 

### issues such as this that do not directly convey 14 

### authority to us. 15 

### Why do we do this? Because these 16 

### agencies and the counties have learned that the 17 

### most effective, enforceable and constructive 18 

### regulations are those that began with intentional 19 

### coordination with the state and local governments 20 

### closest to the people. 21 

### While we understand the different 2283

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### statutory constraints under which the EPA exists 1 

### as compared to the land management agencies in 2 

### Wyoming, we remain mystified at the current EPA's 3 

### insistence on going it alone. One only needs to 4 

### consult the other federal agencies that operate 5 

### in Wyoming to find clear examples of shared 6 

### success and mutual gain from early coordination. 7


### In the case of the rule under 8 

### consideration today, every one of us share a 9 

### commitment to the quality of our water in 10 

### Wyoming. Yet, EPA made no attempt to discuss 11 

### with us any failings in the current regulatory 12 

### framework managed by the NRC and Wyoming's DEQ. 13 

### As local governing bodies, we recognize 14 

### that we may not be consulted every time, 15 

### depending on the statutory framework, although we 16 

### would argue we ought to be, we understand that 17 

### neither the state nor industry was consulted, 18 

### either. This troubles us greatly and prevents us 19 

### from working collectively on any legitimate 20 

### issues dealing with the long-term environmental 21 

### health of a place we call home. 2284

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### I'll leave the technical details of the 1 

### pre operational and post operational monitoring 2 

### to the experts in the room today, as they have 3 

### already spoken. There are two specific points 4 

### about the rule worth mentioning from a county 5 

### perspective. 6 

### First, the EPA's justification for its 7 

### proposed rule is based entirely on conjecture, 8 

### not on any scientific data the ISR operations 9 

### have in fact, resulted in long-term degradation 10 

### of groundwater in Wyoming. The proposed rule 11 

### acknowledges, and in fact, I quote, "anticipates 12 

### the objection that the presence of uranium 13 

### deposits typically results in groundwater of poor 14 

### quality." 15 

### But it goes on to say that the Agency 16 

### does not see this as "reason to allow this 17 

### groundwater be further degraded." Like in the 18 

### so-called Water for the United States Rule, here 19 

### again, the EPA confuses regulatory jurisdiction 20 

### with water quality. Nowhere in the proposed rule 21 

### does the EPA offer a defensible argument where 2285

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### the current regulatory structure at NRC and 1 

### Wyoming's DEQ is insufficient. 2 

### Rather, the EPA simply assumes that 3 

### waters must be degraded, unless the rules are 4 

### written by the EPA itself. In order to deal with 5 

### this perceived threat, the EPA picks an arbitrary 6 

### long-term monitoring regime of 30 years. I have 7 

### many policy objections to this time line, but I 8 

### am going to limit myself to specific county 9 

### issues related to it. 10 

### A 30 year monitoring program has both 11 

### direct and indirect negative impacts and 12 

### Wyoming's county is not contemplated in EPA's 13 

### economic analysis. Directly, counties are 14 

### responsible for many of the infrastructure 15 

### requirements that allow ISR operations to exist. 16 

### We are able to build and maintain roads 17 

### and other structures and support emergency 18 

### response and communications, among many other 19 

### things, only with the revenue that exists from 20 

### taxes paid for the privilege of mineral 21 

### extraction. 2286

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### I will leave it to others to dispute the 1 

### EPA's estimated annual cost of the rule on 2 

### industry, but for counties, the cost of 3 

### maintaining this infrastructure for 30 years 4 

### without offsetting revenue will clearly be a 5 

### significant direct work. 6 

### Further, rules such as this cannot be 7 

### analyzed in a vacuum, as the EPA has done in its 8 

### economic analysis, particularly on its estimates 9 

### of uranium prices and volume. Simply put, rules 10 

### such as this combined with the Department of 11 

### Energy's policies, the Bureau of Mine 12 

### Management's regulations and global economic 13 

### forces make it increasingly difficult for uranium 14 

### producers to operate in Wyoming. 15 

### In 2013, the uranium industry paid nearly 16 

### $6 million in taxes to Wyoming and shared with 17 

### local governments. Given that we still import as 18 

### much as 90 percent of the uranium used in 19 

### electric generation in this country. We have 20 

### vast untapped reserves in this state and others. 21


### We could do so much more to reduce that trade 2287

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### imbalance. 1 

### Instead, we must suffer through economic 2 

### analysis that minimizes impacts by arguing that 3 

### because less than 10 small businesses will be 4 

### affected, that the rule is not significant. I 5 

### can assure you, it is significant to us and to 6 

### the hard working Wyoming families that make their 7 

### living in the uranium mining industries and its 8 

### related services. 9 

### It's rules like this and its subpar 10 

### economic analysis not only help support the 11 

### consolidation of the global uranium industry 12 

### under foreign flags, but fails to account for 13 

### local rural economies like here in Wyoming. A 14 

### few thousand dollars really matters here. 15 

### Thank you again for your time. The WCCA 16 

### respectfully requests that you withdraw this rule 17 

### in deference to other scientific studies and 18 

### monitoring as mentioned by Dr. Johnson from 19 

### (Inaudible). Thank you very much. 20 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 21 

### MR. MINTER: Peter, thank you. I'd like 2288

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### to call up our next scheduled speaker, Chris 1


### Holten. 2 

### (Discussion off the record) 3 

### MR. MINTER: Chris, if you could spell 4 

### your complete name for the court reporter, and 5 

### state your affiliation. 6 

### MR. HOLTEN: Chris, C-H-R-I-S, H-O-L-T-E7 

### N, Chris Holten. I'm speaking as a citizen -- a 8 

### very concerned citizen who has considerable 9 

### expertise in well work construction, water 10 

### injection, hundreds of millions of barrels, 11 

### actually, geology -- my experience comes from the 12 

### oil and gas industry, having been in it since 13 

### 1967. There are parallels that I see here. I 14 

### have also fracture stimulated a hundred, two, 300 15 

### wells -- put thousands and thousands of hours of 16 

### research and development into it. 17 

### I'm very concerned about these rules, and 18 

### I don't think they should be accepted. You 19 

### haven't justified the regulations. As in a lot 20 

### of other things that the EPA dabbles in, this 21 

### seems very well under control and has been for 2289

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### decades. The science is well known. There is 1 

### not that evidence of contamination or radiation 2 

### as has been clearly identified. 3 

### I understand how expensive the burden of 4 

### regulation is, because I've lived with it for 40 5 

### years. And I don't see where you've justified 6 

### what you want to do. I don't see the necessity 7 

### of it, and I think you're using very dubious 8 

### science. 9 

### I think you haven't really proven your 10 

### case. As a professional engineer, I have to make 11 

### it work. I don't have the luxury of just coming 12 

### out with a bunch of rules and regulations that 13 

### would have, could have, should have, ought to 14 

### work. It really has serious impact on us. 15 

### We're the least populated state in the 16 

### union. We'd like to be able to hang onto that. 17 

### It's very important to our economy. But anyway, 18 

### I think you should drop this. It's just like a 19 

### lot of other things, including fracture 20 

### stimulation. 21 

### It's been very well handled by existing 2290

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### authorities, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 1 

### the State of Wyoming. You need to let the states 2 

### handle the water, the aquifers. They're the 3 

### experts at it. Thank you. 4 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 5


### MR. PEAKE: Thanks. 6 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. I'd like to call 7 

### up our next scheduled speaker, Christiane Lee 8


### Lash. 9 

### MR. HOLTEN: Oh, I will submit a written, 10 

### also. I didn't have my ideas as well formulated, 11 

### but I think you caught the gist of it. 12 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Chris. 13 

### Christiane, if you could spell your complete name 14 

### and state who you're representing for our court 15 

### reporter this evening. Thank you. 16 

### MS. LEE: My name is Christiane Lee. C17 

### H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-E, L-E-E. I'm a permanent 18 

### resident of Spearfish, South Dakota which relies 19 

### on the Madison aquifer, which underlies the part 20 

### of Wyoming where uranium in-situ mining takes 21 

### place. 2291

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### I would like to thank the EPA for 1 

### strengthening its rules to protect our water, 2 

### which is our life and which we depend on, all of 3 

### us, for our essence. Myself and other members of 4 

### this geographic area see no reason why 5 

### corporations should be allowed to risk polluting 6


### our water. 7 

### To us, water is sacred. To all of us, 8 

### water is sacred. They should not be given any 9 

### concessions that would weaken the proposed 10 

### regulations the Agency has proposed. In fact, 11 

### these regulations are a classic case of too 12 

### little, too late, because there are hundreds of 13 

### violations of even the very weak federal rules 14 

### currently in place for in-situ mining. 15 

### The very companies that are responsible 16 

### for these violations are the ones asking for 17 

### greater leniency. The corporate interest is 18 

### strictly financial gain and profit for private 19 

### industry. 20 

### It does not consider the common good and 21 

### the balance of nature necessary for the people 2292

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### and the wildlife who live in this area. In 1 

### addition, most of the investment in this damaging 2 

### technology comes from outside the United States, 3 

### where the profits also go abroad. 4 

### In that respect, it is preposterous for 5 

### the representatives paid by these companies to 6 

### request and repeat demands for leniency from the 7 

### federal regulatory agency, which is mandated to 8 

### protect our domestic environment and resources. 9 

### Thank you for your consideration. 10 

### Mitakuye Oyasin. 11 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 12 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 13 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Christiane. 14 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Great. Thank you. 15 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. I'm going to ask 16 

### if anyone else would like to speak this evening 17 

### on the record who has not yet spoken. Is there 18 

### anyone else present here this evening who has not 19 

### yet spoken who would like to? 20 

### (Discussion off the record) 21 

### MR. MINTER: Yes. Have you registered? 2293

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### MR. KEARNEY: I did out front, yeah. 1 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. Could you -- could we 2 

### have you come up? And I'm sorry. You'll have to 3 

### -- I'm sorry. I don't have your name, so I'll 4 

### apologize. 5 

### MR. KEARNEY: I'll refresh it. 6 

### MR. MINTER: Okay (Laughter). Thank you. 7 

### MR. KEARNEY: But I won't need the timer, 8 

### so -- my name is -- 9 

### (Discussion off the record) 10 

### MR. KEARNEY: My name is Bill Kearney. 11 

### Bill, B-I-L-L, Kearney, K-E-A-R-N-E-Y. And I'm 12 

### an independent consultant speaking as a member of 13 

### the general public. I've been involved in mining 14 

### -- the mineral industry and reclamation in 15 

### Wyoming for over 35 years, and I appreciate EPA 16 

### coming to Casper. 17 

### And I just wanted to touch on a couple of 18 

### things that have already been voiced by several 19 

### people. But one thing that the part 192 20 

### regulations didn't point out is that there is a 21 

### lot of advantages of ISR mining as an extractive 2294

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### technology. And it leaves a smaller footprint on 1 

### the environment. It uses less water than a lot 2 

### of other technologies, and I think that point is 3 

### missed totally in the material that was 4 

### presented. 5 

### Another thing, EPA justifies in part, the 6 

### need for these regulations because there is no 7 

### legal restrictions or, I believe you call it 8 

### institutional controls like mill tailings has, to 9 

### keep the public from installing wells in these 10 

### areas after they're mined and restored. 11 

### We've heard about you know, the issue 12 

### that background groundwater quality is really not 13 

### suitable for potable uses, because it's got 14 

### radionuclides in it. It's an ore zone. It's an 15 

### ore body that has uranium -- dissolved uranium, 16 

### radium and radon gas in it. 17 

### And you can -- if one follows the 18 

### regulations that you're proposing and everything 19 

### was restored to background, the water, 20 

### theoretically, would still not be potable water. 21 

### And I think that you know, the general public 2295

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### misses that point; that this water, and it's been 1 

### said by numerous people, it's an exempted 2 

### aquifer, and it's in an exempted aquifer for a 3 

### reason -- because it's full of uranium, radium 4


### and radon. 5 

### So, my question to EPA is, if you're 6 

### really concerned about protecting public health 7 

### and safety, what are you going to do about all of 8 

### these other areas in Wyoming and other states 9 

### where there's uranium mineralization, where maybe 10 

### no one is going to mine it or whatever? 11 

### But if you go out and put a well in it 12 

### now, you still have the same conditions. You 13 

### have elevated uranium, radon and radium. So, I 14 

### just ask you that visit that, if you're really 15 

### truly concerned about the public health and 16 

### safety. You know, there's other areas that are 17 

### much, much larger than places that are going to 18 

### be mined that have these conditions, and people 19 

### can go put a well in it now and they can put a 20 

### well in it tomorrow. 21 

### So, I would just ask that something for 2296

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### NRC -- EPA to take a look at. Thank you. 1 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 2 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 3 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Bill. Is there 4 

### anyone else this evening who would like to speak 5


### who has not done so on the record? 6 

### (Discussion off the record) 7 

### MR. MINTER: Anyone else? 8 

### FEMALE SPEAKER: Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. 9 

### MR. MINTER: Yes? Could you introduce 10 

### yourself, please, and spell your complete name 11 

### and state who you're representing this evening 12 

### for the court reporter. Thank you. 13 

### MS. NOVIKOVA: My name is Tatyana 14 

### Novikova, T-A-T-Y-A-N-A, N-O-V-I-K-O-V-A. And I 15 

### am a permanent resident of South Dakota, Black 16 

### Hills. And thank you for giving me the floor. 17 

### And I am experienced as an environment 18 

### activist from Belarus. Defending the environment 19 

### and health of the citizens from the risks of 20 

### Russian nuclear corporations and opposing the 21 

### construction of nuclear power plants in Belarus. 2297

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### I know what is water and soil 1 

### contamination because of Chernobyl. The 2 

### contamination by radionuclides, the half-life of 3 

### which is about thousands of years for people 4 

### living on the land is forever. 5 

### We do not know of a case in which the 6 

### nuclear industry has cleaned up the pollution 7 

### from the dangerous leaks of radioactive materials 8 

### into the environment or completely restored the 9 

### land. This did not happen in any case of 10 

### Chernobyl, nor in the case of Fukushima. 11 

### Technology in-situ leaching does not 12 

### exclude the contamination of radionuclides into 13 

### the drinking water, including uranium-238, which 14 

### is a strong carcinogen with a half-life of about 15 

### four billion years. There is no way, no 16 

### technology to clean up the groundwater from this 17 

### contamination. And an example of Wyoming, Willow 18 

### Creek side of ISL shows that. 19 

### That's why I am convinced that the only 20 

### way to clean up the land from the deadly 21 

### radionuclide contamination is to prevent deadly 2298

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### and irresponsible activity. 1 

### The new regulations of the EPA's health 2 

### and environmental protection standards for 3 

### uranium and thorium mill tailings is the first 4 

### step in the right direction of protection of the 5 

### natural resources such as drinking water. But 6 

### this law has to have the necessary mechanisms of 7 

### protection. 8 

### In other words, it needs to be completed 9 

### by the rules which address the problems of 10 

### contamination and leaks; rules describing when 11 

### and in which cases the extraction activity has to 12 

### be stopped, as well as the conditions in which 13 

### the permission for extraction can be denied. 14 

### I think that our common aim as well as 15 

### the aim of this new set of regulations is to 16 

### protect the natural resources on which our life 17 

### and health depends. That's why these regulations 18 

### should not and can not respond to the poorly 19 

### economic interest of industry, because doing so 20 

### would confer the right to contaminate and kill. 21 

### Thank you. 2299

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### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 1 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 2 

### MR. MINTER: Tatyana, thank you. All 3 

### right, are there any other folks in the audience 4 

### who have not spoken this evening who would like 5


### to do so on the record? 6 

### (No response heard) 7 

### MR. MINTER: If not, then we'd like to 8 

### call Dr. Standler again, if she is still here, 9 

### and give her additional five minutes of time this 10 

### evening. 11 

### DR. STANDLER: With a little luck, it'll 12 

### be a little less than that. 13 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 14 

### DR. STANDLER: What I wanted to do is 15 

### give you a paper and briefly tell the story of 16 

### it. It's this first paper here. 17 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Okay. 18 

### DR. STANDLER: So you don't have to 19 

### listen to it when you've had so many facts. What 20 

### this is a story is of a family in Connecticut 21 

### whose neighbor got worried about the amalgam in 22100

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### her teeth giving her mercury poisoning. And when 1 

### she went to her doctor and a hair sample sent for 2 

### metal testing, it turned out she didn't have much 3 

### mercury in her hair, but she did have uranium in 4 

### her hair. 5 

### And she was asymptomatic. And then, 6 

### because of the uranium coming up, they started 7 

### testing her well and the wells around her. So, 8 

### she never had any symptoms at all, but there was 9 

### a family that was a neighbor of hers, had very, 10 

### very high levels of uranium. I think it was like 11 

### 28 times the underground limits. The numbers are 12 

### in there. It also had arsenic and the radium 13 

### isotopes in there at high levels. 14 

### And the mother -– the family was a family 15 

### of seven, with two parents and five kids. The 16 

### youngest kid was three at the time that this was 17 

### discovered, and the mother had been drinking this 18 

### well water while she was pregnant, and the child 19 

### had had it her entire life. 20 

### So, this is the clinical scenario of the 21 

### type of case you could never run the experiment 22101

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### on, because who would poison a pregnant mother, 1 

### and who would do that to a young baby? But it 2 

### happened naturally, and the area in question had 3 

### never been touched by mining. 4 

### And so, what apparently happened was they 5 

### ran their well through an ore body, maybe a 6 

### granite -- it's not said in the paper, but maybe 7 

### granite with threads of uranium in it, from what 8 

### I know by verbal communication from Mr. Oscar 9 

### Paulson, who is the geologist that -- I can't 10 

### speak to things like that, but he says there is 11 

### that type of ore in that part of Connecticut. 12 

### So anyway, it's the closest to a real 13 

### scenario that's like your scenario that I've 14 

### seen. It turns out the baby -- let's see. Six 15 

### of the seven people were excreting excess uranium 16 

### in their urine at the time that they were picked 17


### up. 18 

### The only one who had anything at all that 19 

### could be picked up, besides the excreted uranium, 20 

### was the three year old. And the three year old 21 

### did have proteinuria -- had the beta 22102

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### microglobulin anemia. 1 

### Now, let me tell you a little bit about 2 

### that protein that I can say as a physician that 3 

### people don't commonly know. Where you commonly 4 

### see this protein is in the diagnosis of picking 5 

### up the very earliest stages of renal disease in a 6 

### setting of diabetes mellitus. 7 

### The protein is a protein that is in the 8 

### blood and excreted out through the kidney, and if 9 

### the renal tubular cell of the glomerelus are not 10 

### working, they don't pick it up again and it leaks 11


### out. 12 

### So, when you see it in diabetes, it means 13 

### you are going to have a very nasty path and 14 

### you're going to lose your kidney. But what 15 

### people don't know is that in other settings, it 16 

### doesn't necessarily mean that. It just means 17 

### that in diabetes. 18 

### And specifically on the uranium thing, 19 

### what happened with this baby is within three 20 

### months of being put on regular water that people 21 

### recommended that he stop using the darn well 22103

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### water that was such a problem, the baby was never 1 

### -- the three year old was never symptomatic, and 2 

### her urinary function was -- it was never anything 3 

### except the protein in the urine, and it had gone 4 

### close enough back to the normal level that she 5 

### was never monitored again; that her pediatrician 6 

### just wrote her off. 7 

### The reason why that's worth knowing is 8 

### because in the context of not having any deaths 9 

### from acute poisoning of uranium or from chronic 10 

### poisoning of uranium by ingestion that we know 11 

### of, over a very long period of time, you're also 12 

### not talking about throwing people into renal 13 

### failure that's a permanent renal failure. 14 

### I would not have suspected that that baby 15 

### would have tolerated that as well as it did. But 16 

### it did, and I add that to your information as 17 

### part of the context for the rest of the things. 18 

### And I know you guys have a problem, and the 19 

### problem is the problem common to all of our 20 

### modern regulatory issues, and that somewhere, you 21 

### have to find a balance between competing aims -- 22104

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### that you protect people, but you don't want it to 1 

### cost so much money, it destroys stuff. And 2 

### somewhere, you have to find the balance. 3 

### And you have my sympathy and my pity, 4 

### because I understand when you have things as 5 

### complicated as this with as many people 6 

### expressing opinions as we saw here, and I'm sure 7 

### you've seen much, much, much more, finding the 8 

### middle path is in there. But I thought that 9 

### paper was something you should know about. 10 

### MR. PEAKE: Excuse me. I have a question 11 

### for you. 12


### DR. STANDLER: Yes? 13 

### MR. PEAKE: I just want to get this 14 

### right. If you could clarify, or if I could 15 

### confirm what you -- are you saying that the 30 16 

### milligrams per liter that we have in our drinking 17 

### water regulations right now -- 18 

### DR. STANDLER: Is a nice level. It's 19 

### very conservative. 20 

### (Simultaneous discussion) 21 

### MR. PEAKE: You're saying that that 22105

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### shouldn't be applied -- 1 

### DR. STANDLER: No. I ran a rough 2 

### calculation, because my background is biophysics, 3 

### so I'm from the type of people who run rough 4 

### calculations, just to try to scale the thing. 5 

### And I apparently applied more than I tended to 6 

### apply. 7 

### I was trying to get a feel for how much 8 

### eight grams of uranium would have been, if it 9 

### were in drinking water. And I was trying to get 10 

### a feel for me, but I wrote it for you guys, too. 11 

### So, it's a lightweight thing that you don't have 12 

### to take as the level of quality of information 13 

### that other people have given, but that I found 14 

### helpful. 15 

### It was that it would take a huge amount 16 

### of water -- I was trying to compare the eight 17 

### gram dose to the only other level I knew, which 18 

### was the level that we use in the drinking -- as 19 

### the drinking water standard. And so, it's 20 

### enormously bigger than the drinking water 21 

### standard, and that's the only thing I was trying 22106

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### to draw from that. 1 

### I was not trying to push a specific 2 

### number at you for any of your regulatory 3 

### purposes, and I apologize for having been unclear 4


### about that. 5 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 6 

### DR. STANDLER: Okay. 7


### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thanks. 8 

### MR. MINTER: Dr. Standler, thank you. 9 

### DR. STANDLER: Thank you. 10


### MR. MINTER: Before we ask Steven Brown 11 

### to come back up for additional testimony, just to 12 

### be equitable here, one last call for anyone this 13 

### evening here who has not spoken, who would like 14 

### to speak on the record. 15 

### (No response heard) 16 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. If you can -- Steven 17 

### if you can come up, we'll call -- 18 

### (Simultaneous discussion) 19 

### MR. BROWN: Well, thank you again. And 20 

### I'm just going to follow right on Dr. Standler's 21 

### steam, as a matter of fact, in my testimony, 22107

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### which I've submitted. 1 

### In closing, I would like to provide a few 2 

### words about uranium toxicity. So, that's what 3 

### I'm going to talk about, and it's a natural segue 4 

### from what Dr. Standler was talking about. I 5 

### don't think I need a microphone here, so I'm just 6 

### going to talk from this position. 7 

### Others more qualified than I, people like 8 

### Dr. Standler at this public meeting are going to 9 

### provide comments to address in detail the 10 

### scientific consensus and understanding of the 11 

### uranium toxicity as humans. But for me as a 12 

### practicing uranium health physicist for most of 13 

### my 40 years in industry, it's been my 14 

### responsibility, my obligation to understand -- 15 

### MR. MINTER: Steve, we're not hearing 16 

### very well. 17 

### MR. BROWN: Okay. Let's try this. Okay? 18


### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Yeah. 19 

### MR. BROWN: All right, good? 20


### SPEAKER: Better. 21 

### MR. BROWN: Okay. So again, as a 22108

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### practicing uranium health physicist for most of 1 

### my 40 years in industry, it's been my 2 

### responsibility and obligation to understand the 3 

### most current science on the subject in the 4 

### interest of protecting workers and the public 5 

### from the potential hazards of the beneficial use 6 

### of ionizing radiation. 7 

### Page 4157 of the proposed rule making 8 

### states, because radionuclides are human 9 

### carcinogens, the main health risk averted would 10 

### be cancer. This concern and its use for 11 

### justification of the rulemaking is unfounded, at 12 

### least in regards to naturally occurring uranium 13 

### which is not known to be a carcinogen. 14 

### The United States Public Health Service, 15 

### agency for toxic substances and disease registry 16 

### -- I think Dr. Standler made reference to this 17 

### document earlier, has published the most 18 

### comprehensive review available on uranium 19 

### toxicity. And it's titled "The Toxicological 20 

### Profile of Uranium, Latest Revision, 2013." 21 

### Page 161 notes -- and again, this is the 22109

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### U.S. Public Health Service, and here's what they 1 

### say. Page 161 notes the following with respect 2 

### to carcinogenicity of orally ingested uranium. 3 

### "No evidence linking oral exposure to uranium to 4 

### human cancer has ever been found, although 5 

### natural depleted or enriched uranium -- " that 6 

### means uranium that has more of the naturally 7 

### occurring uranium 235, which is required for 8 

### fission -- I don't want to go there. I don't 9 

### have the time. 10 

### But in any case -- have not been 11 

### evaluated in the cancer bioassay, there is a 12 

### potential for the carcinogenicity of uranium 13 

### since it emits primarily alpha radiation. 14 

### Nevertheless, no evidence has been found to 15 

### associate human exposure to uranium compounds in 16 

### carcinogenesis. 17 

### Also, and I have reference to an American 18 

### Cancer Society web site here, and you can go 19 

### there if you like -- it's in my notes. Although 20 

### the American Cancer Society identifies several 21 

### classes of, and specific radionuclides as 22110

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### carcinogens, uranium is not. 1 

### However, similar to other heavy metals 2 

### like lead, soluble forms of uranium can have 3 

### toxic properties due to their chemical nature. 4 

### We refer to it as chemotoxic, but not necessarily 5 

### radiotoxic. Radiotoxic toxic because of its 6 

### radiological properties -- primarily related to 7 

### the potential for renal system injuries, as Dr. 8


### Standler has alluded to. 9 

### Referring again to the U.S. Public Health 10 

### Service Toxicological Profile of Uranium, page 11 

### 109. The issue of death related to oral uranium 12 

### exposure is considered, "there are no reports of 13 

### human deaths from oral exposure to uranium 14 

### compounds. However, data from animal studies 15 

### demonstrate the soluble uranium compounds at very 16 

### high intake levels can be lethal to animals 17 

### through the oral route -- excuse me -- for all 18 

### durations of exposure. 19 

### As a result of the animal studies on 20 

### uranium ingestion that go back many, many years. 21 

### When I was a young health physicist in the 1970s, 22111

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### some of these studies were already published. As 1 

### a result of the animal studies on uranium 2 

### ingestion that go back many, many years, workers 3 

### in uranium recovery facilities potentially 4 

### exposed to soluble forms of uranium have been 5 

### regularly monitored to ensure no evidence of 6 

### renal system effects. 7 

### And as Dr. Standler alluded to, we 8 

### routinely look for showings of glucose or protein 9 

### albumin in the urine of sampled workers as 10 

### indicators -- as bio indicators of a potential 11 

### renal problem. There are no known cases -- I 12 

### repeat, there are no known cases of renal 13 

### injuries to workers as a result of occupational 14 

### exposure to uranium. 15 

### And again, I have with me a paper that 16 

### isn't referenced here, but will be referenced in 17 

### our written comments. It's a recent paper. It's 18 

### in the health physics journal, which is probably 19 

### the world's leading professional journal of the 20 

### health physics profession. 21 

### It's by some of America's leading uranium 22112

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### health physicists, Ron Kathren and Rich Burklin 1 

### who I've known very well for many years, called 2 

### "The Acute Chemical Toxicity of Uranium." It is 3 

### literally a compendium of seventy years of 4 

### studies, animal studies and human studies on the 5 

### toxicology of uranium, and I would strongly 6 

### recommend as a citizen of the United States, that 7 

### EPA familiarize themselves with seventy years of 8 

### science as they move forward with this 9 

### rulemaking, if it all. 10 

### And again, thank you for a second 11 

### opportunity to close this meeting. (Laughter) 12 

### MR. MINTER: Steven, thank you. It is 13 

### about five of eight, and we are scheduled to 14 

### close this hearing right at 8:00. So, we do have 15 

### some time. If there is anyone else who has not 16 

### spoken, this would be the time to do it. 17 

### And if there are any other folks who have 18 

### already spoken who would like to come up and use 19 

### the balance of your time -- okay. 20 

### (Discussion off the record) 21 

### MR. PAULSON: Thank you. My name is 22113

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### Oscar Paulson, O-S-C-A-R, P-A-U-L-S-O-N. And I 1 

### am with Kennecott Uranium Company. I just wanted 2 

### to complete my testimony. 3 

### In my initial discussion, I talked about 4 

### three papers published primarily by Dr. John 5 

### Boice, and I talked about the first two. The 6 

### third one is entitled "A Cohort Study of Uranium, 7 

### Millers and Miners of Grants, New Mexico, 1979 - 8 

### 2005" in the Journal of Radiological Protection. 9 

### This paper concludes, and I quote, "no 10 

### statistically significant elevation at any cause 11 

### of death was seen among the 904 non-miners 12 

### employed at the Grants Uranium mill. Among 718 13 

### mill workers with the greatest potential for 14 

### exposure to uranium ore, no statistically 15 

### significant increase in any cause of death of a 16 

### priori interest was seen, i.e., cancers of the 17 

### lung, kidney, liver or bone, lymphoma, non18 

### malignant respiratory disease or renal disease or 19 

### liver disease. 20 

### Although the population study was 21 

### relatively small, 718 individuals, the follow-up 22114

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### was long, up to 50 years and complete. This 1 

### paper examined, among other things, a cohort of 2 

### 718 uranium millers, and these are a maximally 3 

### exposed group, because they are working with the 4 

### material every day in the course of their work -- 5 

### and concluded that there was no statistically 6 

### significant increase in cancers of a priori 7 

### interest. 8 

### Now, this area that this study covered 9 

### contained a number of licensed uranium recovery 10 

### facilities, including the Blue Water, L-Bar, Home 11 

### Stake/United Nuclear Partners, United Nuclear12 

### Church Rock and Ambrosia Lake Mills. This was an 13 

### area with a large amount of uranium activity 14 

### ongoing in. 15 

### And again, they cannot see statistically 16 

### significant increases of cancer, even though 17 

### cancer is raised in the preamble to the 18 

### rulemaking. 19 

### Now, logically, uranium mill workers who 20 

### work directly in the uranium processing facility 21 

### are more likely to be exposed to uranium and its 22115

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### decay products than members of the general public 1 

### living in the general area of such an operation. 2 

### So, these people are at higher risk of exposure. 3 

### The following paper, based on a study by 4 

### the National Institute of Occupational Safety and 5 

### Health, NIOSH, of a cohort of 1,484 uranium mill 6 

### workers, and that's a large cohort, addresses 7 

### uranium recovery mill workers who are allowed to 8 

### receive higher occupational doses than members of 9 

### the general public are, who are allowed to only 10 

### receive limited doses from licensed operations 11 

### under rules in the NRC 10 CFR 20. 12 

### This paper is entitled "Mortality Among a 13 

### Cohort of Uranium Mill Workers, An Update," by 14 

### Lynn Pinkerton. And it was in "Occupational 15 

### Environmental Medicine" in 2004. 16 

### The paper concludes, and I quote, 17 

### "mortality from all causes was less than expected 18 

### among these mill workers, which is largely 19 

### accounted for by fewer deaths from heart disease 20 

### than expected. Mortality from all malignant 21 

### neoplasms was also less than expected." 22116

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### Malignant neoplasms are cancer. 1 

### This paper examines a cohort again, of 2 

### 1,484 uranium mill workers and comprised a group 3 

### that sustained exposures higher than members of 4 

### the general public, because they were radiation 5 

### workers, and yet, showed both lower mortality for 6 

### the group as a whole, and specifically, lower 7 

### mortality from cancer than would be expected in 8 

### the general population. 9 

### So, these four studies, three Boice 10 

### papers and three Boice cohorts and the fourth 11 

### study of uranium mill workers clearly show that 12 

### uranium recovery operations do not pose health 13 

### risks due to cancer, either to people residing in 14 

### their vicinity such as the residents of these 15 

### counties, or to the workers employed at these 16 

### facilities. 17 

### The documented absence of risk shows that 18 

### this rulemaking is unnecessary and should be 19 

### withdrawn. Thank you. And this information is 20 

### also included in the binder I provided. Do you 21 

### have any questions? 22117

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### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 1 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. It is just past 2 

### 8:00, and before we officially conclude this 3 

### hearing, Tony did prompt me one more time to see 4 

### if there's anyone who has joined us who would 5 

### like to go on the record for the first time this 6 

### evening. 7 

### (No response heard) 8 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. If not, we would like 9 

### to conclude this public hearing. We want to 10 

### thank everyone for participating this evening. 11 

### This hearing session is officially closed, and we 12 

### will have another session tomorrow morning in 13 

### this room from 9 to 12. Thank you very much. 14 

### [Whereupon, at 8:01 p.m., the Public 15 

### Hearing was adjourned.] 16

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