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## Federal Aviation Administration
Office of Hearings

Federal Aviation Administration, Complainant,



## v. Central Virginia Aviation, Respondent. Case No. FAA-2013- 0044
FAA-2012-1263

Washington, D.C. Wednesday, April 10, 2013

The following pages constitute the proceedings
held ln the above-captioned matter before the HONORABLE
J.E. SULLIVAN, held telephonically before Erick McNair
of Capital Reporting Company, beginning at approximately 9:30 a.m. 

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APPEARANCES I JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Court Reporter, Forthe Complainant: 2 are you ready? Zachary M. Berman 3 THE REPORTER: Yes, I am. Complainant's Counsel Attorney 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We're on the record Office ofthe Regional Counsel Eastern Region Federal Aviation Administration 5 in the matter ofCentral VirginiaAviation, Inc. This I Aviation PlazaJamaica,NY 11434 6 is combined docketFAA-2013-0044 and FAA-2012-1263. Forthe Respondent: 7 Today is Wednesday, AprillO, 2013. The parties have David Gates 8 convened by telephone for a Rule 16 litigation Katherine Gray 9 scheduling conference. CowanGates I930 Huguenot Road 10 The FAA is represented by its attorney, Richmond, VA 23235 11 Zachary M. Berman. The Respondent is represented by 12 its attorney, David H. Gates. He is alsojoined by 13 another attorney in his office, Katherine G. Gray. 14 Good morning, counsel. 15 (Chorus of"Good morning.") 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Folks, before we begin with 17 substance, Mr. Gates, Ijustneed to know ifyou're 18 planningto speak today orifMs. Gray is. 19 MR. GATES: I'm planning to speak. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thankyou. 21 Then let's start first with the order that 22 was issued on March 4, 2013, temporarily consolidating

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PROCEEDINGS 1 both these dockets. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Goodmorning, everybody. 2 Mr. Berman, do you have any objection to This is Judge Sullivan. DoI have Mr. Berman on the 3 what appears to be a Respondent's motion to line? 4 consolidate these cases for litigation and decision? MR. BERMAN: Yes. 5 MR. BERMAN: No, I do not have any JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Gates? 6 objection. MR. GATES: Yes. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN:

.Okay. Then whatI will do JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Gates? 8 is I will grant the motion to consolidate, and the MR. GATES: Yes. 9 caseswill be tried together, and one decision will be JUDGE SULLIVAN: Could you speak up, sir? I 10 issued for both matters.
can barely hearyou. 11 Then I want to go to thejointly proposed MR. GATES: All right. Katherine Gray is 12 schedule and discovery plans. I'm happy to adopt here also. And that's why we're on speakerphone. 13 almost all ofthe deadlines that the parties have JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That's better. 14 proposed. I do need to know a little bit more about a Thankyou. 15 couple ofdifferentthings, and I'll startwith you, And do I have the CourtReporterhere, 16 Mr. Berman. McNair? 17 Can you tell me about how much time you THE REPORTER: Yes, ma'am. 18 think this hearing will take for the consolidated JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 19 case? Mr. Berman, is there anyone with you sitting 20 MR. BERMAN: Ithink it should take about, in as an observer? 21 say, two-three days. MR. BERMAN: No. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Three days? Isthatjust


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for your case in chiefor for everybody? I MR. GATES: Yes, it would. MR. BERMAN: Well, for my case in chief, I 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Benmn,I think think it should take a day. 3 you would be comingthe farthest. Now, do you want to JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 4 travel on Sunday, Monday? Do you have apreference? MR. BERMAN: Atmost a day. 5 MR. GATES: Oh, I'd rather not travel on JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So two days for 6 Sunday, withthe-- I don't knowhowthe everybody? 7 sequestration, the furlough is going to factor into MR. BERMAN: Yes. 8 it. So there might be complications in traveling on JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Gates, would you 9 Sunday. So I think I'd prefernot to travel on a agree with that, or do you have a different idea? 10 Sunday. MR. GATES: I would be surprised ifit took 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So would Monday as a two days. I would think it would probably take one 12 travel date be acceptable to you? day. 13 MR. GATES: Yes. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Just so thatyou 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So ifwe have know, I'm looking at page 2 ofthejointly proposed 15 Monday, January 13th, as the travel day, then we're scheduling/discovery plan that the parties tiled on 16 looking at Tuesday, January 14, and Wednesday, January February 11, 2013. And on page 2, you apparently have 17 15, for the hearing dates, with Thursday, January 16, agreed to the venue ofRichmond, Virginia, which I'm 18 as the return travel day. Andthis would all be in happy to adopt. 19 the year 2014. I should letyou knowthat December 3rd, 20 That means
-- and I'm going to look at your 2013, is not available on my calendar. And I think 21 plan injusta minute. Okay. whatmight work best for us is to find the date for 22 Mr. Berman, turning back to you, howmuch

7 hearing, and then we can work back to some ofthese 1 time prior to the hearing do you usually like to other deadlines, because it makes no sense to have a 2 exchangeyour lists ofwitnesses and your exhibits? deadline and then a dead space ofa month or two for 3 MR. BERMAN: I guess three or four weeks the trial. 4 would be sufficient. So I'm goingto go to December-January, 

### 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and Mr. Gates, does essentially. And I'm going to start with December 6 that sound good to you? Do you have apreference? 2013 and see whatpotentially is available for atwo- 7 MR. GATES: That's fair. day trial in Richmond, Virginia. 8 JUDGE SULLTVAN: Okay. Doyou have a I'm going to acceptthe two days for now 9 preference, sir? because one neverknows. AndI find that it's always 10 MR. GATES: I would probably say a month. better to enon the side ofalittle bit ofbounty II JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Since we've set the than notto have enough time when the parties come 12 trial for January 14, 2014, Jet's backtrackto the together. Ifwe don't use all two days, then the 13 December calendar. And how about setting the exchange parties can go home early. 14 ofwitness lists and exhibits for Wednesday, December I will be in trial the first two weeks of 15 18, 2013? Does that workfor you, Mr. Berman? December. My first opening would be the week of 16 MR. BERMAN: Yes. January 13th. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Gates? Mr. Berman, looking atyour calendar, would 18 MR. GATES: Yes. that weekwork for you? 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And whatI'm going to do is MR. BERMAN: Yes, it would. 20 I'm also going to setthat as the date for filing

-- JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Gates, how about 21 no, actually I should askyou both, do you want to for you? 22 have a date for filing stipulations, written


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10 stipulations to narrowthe scope ofthe trial? I I'm happy to adopt your July I, 2013, deadline for Usually, what I'd like to do is giveyou a due date 2 completing general discovery. I'm going to add in afterthe dispositive motion calendar so that ifyou 3 some supplemental discovery time for you, however, find that you can stipulate further and reduce the 4 since we have some time to do that. cost ofthe hearing, you can, then you have a deadline 5 After July I, 2013, why don't weplan for it. 6 on aJuly 15, 2013, due date for filing your Mr. Berman, would that be acceptable to you? 7 supplemental discovery requests? And that would be, MR. BERMAN: Yes. 8 ofcourse, the last day for parties to exchange JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Gates? 9 requests for supplemental discoverythat arose, say, MR. GATES: Yes. Can you hearme? 10 for example, during a deposition you may have taken JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, I can, sir. Thankyou II before July I, very much. 12 2013. How about, why don't we setthat stipulation 13 And then we can extend to, say, August 23rd, date for December 4, 2013? And I'll make it for 14 2013, the deadline for finishing the exchange of written stipulations and motions in limine. 15 supplemental discovery, ifsuch was needed. That doesn't prohibityou, ofcourse, from 16 Mr. Berman, do you have any objection to making further motions and stipulations up through the 17 that? Would that be helpful to you? date ofthe hearing and beyond. Butthat way, it 18 MR. BERMAN: I don't have any objection. givesyou a chance to talkto each other and put 19 Thatwould be fine. together somethingsthat potentially could help you 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Gates, how about eliminate some evidence that is agreed upon, that 21 for you? you're honing in on whateveryou need to prove that's 22 MR. GATES: No objection.

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in dispute. 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then I'll adoptyour I'm taking a couple ofnotes here. 2 September 3rd, 2013, deadline for filing dispositive Okay. So let's backtrack then and start 3 motions. I'll adopt your October 3rd, 2013, deadline with the beginning dates. BecausenowI have aframe 4 for filing an answerto the dispositive motions. And
on which to place it. 5 then I will adopt your October 18, 2013, deadline for You have indicated May 1, 2013, for filing 6 filing any reply. the initial discovery requests. AndI'mthinkingthat 7 Let's talk about setting up oral argument.
we can have an additional date, because initial 8 I typically like to have oral argument set up so that disclosures, according to the Civil Rules, is 9 I can ask questions regarding the motions that are ditlerent from general disclosure. Andtypically, you 10 filed. And I'm going to look at my calendar. would have, by this time or shortly thereafter, a II How about looking at the week ofOctober complied- with initial disclosure pursuant to CR26. 12 28th for a one-hourtelephone conference for oral And I'm wondering ifwe can'tjust set the 13 argument on any ofthe dispositive motions<J initial disclosure deadline for a week from now. And 14 Mr. Berman, looking at your calendar, do you then we'd have the general discovery's start date 15 have any preferred dates? begin on May 1, 2013. 16 MR. BERMAN: I'mjustchecking. For October Mr. Berman, do you have any objection to 17 28th? that? 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. The week ofOctober MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. 19 28th, do you have any preferred dates? JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Mr. Gates? 20 MR. BERMAN: Oh, the week of. Okay. The MR. GATES: Thatwould be fine. 21 29th, the 30th, or the 31st. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Andthen I will-- 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Anytimes during


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I those days that are better orworse for you? I writing whatwe'vejusttalked about this morning. 2 MR. BERMAN: No. No, my schedule is open, 2 In addition to the deadlines that we've 3 for now. 3 talked about, this order will also include various 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. Gates, how 4 procedural instructions for howto markyour exhibits, 5 about for you? 5 howto file for a motion, and howto contactmy ot1ice 6 MR. GATES: Those dates would work ifwe 6 to set up an oral argument, ifyou need amotion date 7 could do it in the afternoon. 7 and an oral argument date other than whatwe've 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. How about October 8 identified for today. There's information about how 9 29, 2013, say, would I:30 p.m. be acceptable, Mr. 9 to perfect a motion to compel ifyou're having trouble 10 Gates? 10 with discovery. Those kinds ofthings will be II MR. GATES: Itwould. 11 included in the order. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Bennan? 12 Ifyou have any questions about those 13 MR. GATES: Yes. 13 procedural matters, please feel free to contactMr. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So noted. 14 Smith, who's the attorney advisorworking with me on 15 And then we have a little gap oftime 15 these cases. And his phone number and name will be 16 between October 29, 2013, and the written stipulations 16 included in the very last paragraph ofthe order, 17 due on December 4, 2013. Basically, that gives me a 17 above my signature, so that you can find it easily. 18 little time to issue any written decision on 18 With that, it appears ourbusiness is 19 dispositive motions, which hopefully would be helpful 19 complete. We can go offthe record, and I wish you 20 to you in setting up your final witness list and 20 all avery good day. Thank you so much. 21 exhibit exchange. 21 (Whereupon, the hearing was 22 Just as a cautionary note, please keep this 22 concluded.) 

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I date ofOctober 29 on your calendar. Ifno I CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 2 dispositive motions are filed, Jwill hold it as a 2 I, ERICKMcNAIR, the officerbefore whomthe foregoing 3 pre-hearing conference and find outwhat the status is 3 deposition was taken, do hereby certify thatthe 4 ofyour case. 4 witness whose testimony appears inthe foregoing 5 Mr. Berman, starting with you, do you want 5 deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of 6 to have anytelephone conference set closer in timeto 6 said witness wasrecorded by me and thereafterreduced 7 to typewriting under my direction; that said 7 the trial as a final pre-hearing status conference? 8 deposition is atrue record ofthe testimony given by 8 Or are you comfortable with the schedule as it's 9 said 'Yitness; that I am neither counsel for, related 9 outlined so far? 10 to, nor employed by any ofthe parties to the action 10 MR. BERMAN: I'm comfortable with the way II in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that 11 the schedule is now. 12 I am not arelative or employee ofany counsel or 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Gates, how about 13 attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor 13 you? 14 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 14 MR. GATES: That's fine. 15 this action. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Berman, starting 16 16 with you, is there anything else that we can address 17 17 on behalfofyour client today? 18 ERICKMcNAIR 18 MR. BERMAN: I have nothing else. Notary Public in and for the 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thankyou very much. 19 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 20 You've made myjobvery easy, which I appreciate. 20 21 I'm going to send out an order setting 21 22 litigation dates and procedures that will codifY in 22 My commission expires: July 14, 2016 

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CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 2 I, ELLEN SANDERS, hereby certifY that I am not the 3 CourtReporter who reported the following proceeding 4 and that I have typedthe transcript ofthis 5 proceeding using the CourtReporter's notes and 6 recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript is a 7 true, correct, and complete transcription ofsaid 8 proceeding. 9 

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1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC
2 I, ERICK McNAIR, the officer before whom the foregoing
3 deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the
4 witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing
5 deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of
6 said witness was recorded by me and thereafter reduced
7 to typewriting under my direction; that said
8 deposition is a true record of the testimony given by
9 said witness; that I am neither counsel for, related
10 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action
11 in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that
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21 I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of
this action.

# ~%~ ERICK McNAIR Notary Public in and for the DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

22 My commission expires: July 14, 2016



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18 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION
2 I, ELLEN SANDERS, hereby certify that I am not the
3 Court Reporter who reported the following proceeding
4 and that I have typed the transcript of this
5 proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes and
6 recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript is a
7 true, correct, and complete transcription of said
8 proceeding.

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