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94–209 PDF 2016

EXAMINING THE CHALLENGES FACING NATIVE 

AMERICAN SCHOOLS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, 

ELEMENTARY, AND SECONDARY EDUCATION 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, APRIL 22, 2015 

Serial No. 114–10 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and the Workforce 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: 

www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/committee.action?chamber=house&committee=education 

or 

Committee address: http://edworkforce.house.gov 

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(II) 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE 

JOHN KLINE, Minnesota, Chairman 

Joe Wilson, South Carolina 

Virginia Foxx, North Carolina 

Duncan Hunter, California 

David P. Roe, Tennessee 

Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania 

Tim Walberg, Michigan 

Matt Salmon, Arizona 

Brett Guthrie, Kentucky 

Todd Rokita, Indiana 

Lou Barletta, Pennsylvania 

Joseph J. Heck, Nevada 

Luke Messer, Indiana 

Bradley Byrne, Alabama 

David Brat, Virginia 

Buddy Carter, Georgia 

Michael D. Bishop, Michigan 

Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin 

Steve Russell, Oklahoma 

Carlos Curbelo, Florida 

Elise Stefanik, New York 

Rick Allen, Georgia 

Robert C. ‘‘Bobby’’ Scott, Virginia 

Ranking Member 

Rube ́n Hinojosa, Texas 

Susan A. Davis, California 

Rau ́l M. Grijalva, Arizona 

Joe Courtney, Connecticut 

Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio 

Jared Polis, Colorado 

Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 

Northern Mariana Islands 

Frederica S. Wilson, Florida 

Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon 

Mark Pocan, Wisconsin 

Mark Takano, California 

Hakeem S. Jeffries, New York 

Katherine M. Clark, Massachusetts 

Alma S. Adams, North Carolina 

Mark DeSaulnier, California 

Juliane Sullivan, Staff Director 

Denise Forte, Minority Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, ELEMENTARY, AND 

SECONDARY EDUCATION 

TODD ROKITA, Indiana, Chairman 

Duncan Hunter, California 

Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania 

Dave Brat, Virginia 

Buddy Carter, Georgia 

Michael D. Bishop, Michigan 

Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin 

Steve Russell, Oklahoma 

Carlos Curbelo, Florida 

Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio, 

Ranking Minority Member 

Susan A. Davis, California 

Rau ́l M. Grijalva, Arizona 

Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 

Northern Mariana Islands 

Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon 

Mark Takano, California 

Katherine M. Clark, Massachusetts 

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C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on April 22, 2015 .............................................................................. 1 

Statement of Members: 

Rokita, Hon. Todd, Chairman, Subcommittee On Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education ............................................................. 1 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 3 

Fudge, Hon. Marcia, L., Ranking Member, Subcommittee On Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education ............................................. 4 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 6 

Statement of Witnesses: 

Burcum, Ms. Jill, Editorial Writer Minneapolis Star Tribune, Minneapolis, MN ................................................................................................. 9 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 12 

Cladoosby, Mr. Brian, President, National Congress of American Indians, 

Embassy of Tribal Nations, Washington, DC ............................................. 16 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 19 

Nose, Mr. Roman, Executive Director, Tribal Education Departments National Assembly, Boulder, CO, ..................................................................... 25 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 27 

Emrey-Arras, Ms. Melissa, Director, Education, Workforce and Income 

Security Issues, U.S. Government Accountability Office, Boston, MA ..... 31 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 33 

Additional Submissions: 

Ms. Emrey-Arras: .............................................................................................

Statement Visuals ..................................................................................... 82 

Ms. Fudge: prepared statement of Hon. Rick Nolan, a Representative 

in Congress from the State of Minnesota ................................................... 87 

Mr. Nose: ...........................................................................................................

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 90 

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EXAMINING THE CHALLENGES FACING 

NATIVE AMERICAN SCHOOLS 

Wednesday, April 22, 2015 

House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Elementary, 

and Secondary Education, 

Committee on Education and the Workforce, 

Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:05 a.m., in Room 

2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Todd Rokita [chairman 

of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Rokita, Thompson, Brat, Carter, 

Bishop, Grothman, Russell, Fudge, Davis, Sablan, and Takano. 

Also present: Representatives Kline, Nolan, and Robert C 

‘‘Bobby’’ Scott. 

Staff present: Lauren Aronson, Press Secretary; Janelle Belland, 

Coalitions and Members Services Coordinator; Kathlyn Ehl, Legislative Assistant; Matthew Frame, Staff Assistant; Amy Raaf Jones, 

Director of Education and Human Resources Policy; Nancy Locke, 

Chief Clerk; Krisann Pearce, General Counsel; Lauren Reddington, 

Deputy Press Secretary; Mandy Schaumburg, Education Deputy 

Director and Senior Counsel; Juliane Sullivan, Staff Director; Leslie Tatum, Professional Staff Member; Brad Thomas, Senior Education Policy Advisor; Tylease Alli, Minority Clerk/Intern and Fellow Coordinator; Barbera Austin, Minority Staff Assistant; Kelly 

Broughan, Minority Education Policy Advisor; Jacque Chevalier, 

Minority Senior Education Policy Advisor; Denise Forte, Minority 

Staff Director; Ashlyn Holeyfield, Minority Education Policy Fellow; Tina Hone, Minority Education Policy Director and Associate 

General Counsel; Brian Kennedy, Minority General Counsel; and 

Richard Miller, Minority Senior Labor Policy Advisor. 

Chairman ROKITA. Well, good morning, and welcome to today’s 

subcommittee hearing. 

I would like to thank our witnesses for joining us to examine the 

very serious challenges facing Native American schools. 

Nearly a century ago the Federal Government made a promise 

to deliver to Native American children a quality education that just 

doesn’t teach math and science, but preserves their customs and 

culture. Under the Department of Interior’s Bureau of Indian Education, the Federal Government is expected to support the education of more than 40,000 students through approximately 185 elCEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

2 

ementary and secondary schools located on or near Indian reservations. 

Unfortunately, the Federal Government is failing to keep its 

promise to these vulnerable children. 

As reports from congressional committees, government watchdogs, investigative journalists, and academics have detailed, the 

state of BIE education is abysmal. Too many schools lack adequate 

infrastructure and educational resources, compromising the health, 

safety, and future postsecondary and professional opportunities of 

the children they are supposed to be serving. And it has been this 

way for far too long. 

A 1969 Senate report from the Committee on Labor and Public 

Welfare describes the Federal Government’s failure to provide an 

effective education as a ‘‘national tragedy and a national disgrace,’’ 

and that has ‘‘condemned the American Indian to a life of poverty 

and despair.’’ 

Despite countless calls for change, all we have seen is decades of 

inaction. As one of today’s witnesses chronicles in an acclaimed 

Minneapolis Star Tribune series on the failing BIE system, ‘‘Federal neglect continues to handicap learning at BIE schools nationwide. Kids shivering in thin-walled classrooms or studying under 

leaky roofs year after year aren’t getting the education they need 

or deserve.’’ 

A report by the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office 

further details these concerns. Entitled the ‘‘Bureau of Indian Education Needs to Improve Oversight of School Spending,’’ that report 

reveals a chronic failure to fix and replace decrepit and antiquated 

schools. The GAO cites a bungling bureaucracy that includes a lack 

of information to effectively monitor and fix the problems plaguing 

school facilities, as well as confusion and poor communication about 

who is actually responsible for addressing the various needs of 

these schools. 

The details of these reports are sobering. However, words on 

paper will never fully convey the troubling state of Native American education. That is why members of this committee have visited these schools to learn firsthand about the challenges they face. 

This year, for my part, I visited several BIE schools, including 

the Theodore Roosevelt Indian School and John F. Kennedy Indian 

School, both in Arizona, and this was with BIE Director Monty 

Roessel; as well as the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig school in Minnesota 

with Chairman John Kline. 

The conditions at these schools are deplorable. Some classrooms 

lack desks, books, computers, pencils, paper, and while others lack 

proper flooring, roofing, and ventilation. 

Some schools are missing a working water heater, for example. 

Others are missing front doors and are rodent-infested. And for 

many students, attending these unsafe and unhealthy schools is 

their only option. 

Despite the many obstacles that stand in the way of these students and educators, their resiliency and determination to create 

better lives for themselves is nothing short of inspiring. They understand the importance of an education and the opportunities it 

will afford them. 

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I have also met dedicated teachers and school administrators in 

these places who are working hard to overcome these challenging 

conditions and help improve the lives of their students with quality 

educational opportunities. They are to be commended. 

It is paramount that we uphold our promise to provide Native 

American children an excellent education that preserves their tribal heritage. Though the current system poses significant challenges, turning a blind eye is not the answer. The Federal Government must live up to its responsibility. 

We look forward to learning from our witnesses about the Bureau of Indian Education and the schools under BIE’s jurisdiction. 

I am confident that today’s hearing will help advance real solutions 

that ensure Native American children have access to safe and 

healthy schools that support quality teaching and learning. 

So with that, I will now recognize the ranking member, Congresswoman Fudge, for her opening remarks. 

Good morning. 

[The statement of Chairman Rokita follows:] 

Prepared Statement of Hon. Todd Rokita, Chairman, Subcommittee on 

Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education 

Good morning, and welcome to today’s subcommittee hearing. I’d like to thank our 

witnesses for joining us to examine the very serious challenges facing Native American schools. 

Nearly a century ago, the federal government made a promise to deliver to Native 

American children a quality education that preserves their customs and culture. 

Under the Department of Interior’s Bureau of Indian Education, the federal government is expected to support the education of more than 40,000 students through approximately 185 elementary and secondary schools located on or near Indian reservations. 

Unfortunately, the federal government is failing to keep its promise to these vulnerable children. 

As reports from congressional committees, government watchdogs, investigative 

journalists, and academics have detailed, the state of BIE education is abysmal. Too 

many schools lack adequate infrastructure and educational resources, compromising 

the health, safety, and future postsecondary and professional opportunities of the 

children they are intended to serve. And it has been this way for far too long. 

A 1969 Senate report from the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare describes 

the federal government’s failure to provide an effective education as a ‘‘national 

tragedy and a national disgrace’’ that has ‘‘condemned the [American Indian] to a 

life of poverty and despair.’’ 

Despite countless calls for change, all we have seen is decades of inaction. As one 

of today’s witnesses chronicles in an acclaimed Minneapolis Star Tribune series on 

the failing BIE system, ‘‘federal neglect [continues to handicap] learning at BIE 

schools nationwide . . . Kids shivering in thin-walled classrooms or studying under 

leaky roofs year after year aren’t getting the education they need or deserve.’’ 

A report by the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office further details 

these concerns. Entitled the ‘‘Bureau of Indian Education Needs to Improve Oversight of School Spending,’’ the report reveals a chronic failure to fix and replace decrepit and antiquated schools. The GAO cites a bungling bureaucracy that includes 

a lack of information to effectively monitor and fix the problems plaguing school facilities, as well as confusion and poor communication about who is actually responsible for addressing the various needs of these schools. 

The details of these reports are sobering. However, words on paper will never 

fully convey the troubling state of Native American education. That is why members 

of the Education and the Workforce Committee have visited these schools to learn 

firsthand about the challenges they face. 

This year, I have visited several BIE schools, including the Theodore Roosevelt 

Indian School and John F. Kennedy Indian School in Arizona with BIE director Dr. 

Monty Roessel, as well as the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig (BUG–OH–NAY–GHEE–SHIG) 

School in Minnesota with Chairman John Kline. 

The conditions at these schools are deplorable. Some classrooms lack desks, books, 

computers, pencils, and paper, while others lack proper flooring, roofing, and venCEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

4 

tilation. Some schools are missing a working water heater. Others are missing front 

doors and are rodent-infested. And for many students, attending these unsafe and 

unhealthy schools is their only option. 

Despite the many obstacles that stand in the way of these students and educators, 

their resiliency and determination to create better lives for themselves is nothing 

short of inspiring. They understand the importance of an education and the opportunities it will afford them. I’ve also met dedicated teachers and school administrators 

who are working hard to overcome these challenging conditions and help improve 

the lives of their students with quality educational opportunities. 

It is paramount that we uphold our promise to provide Native American children 

an excellent education that preserves their tribal heritage. Though the current system poses significant challenges, turning a blind eye is not the answer. The federal 

government must live up to its responsibility. 

We look forward to learning from our witnesses about the Bureau of Indian Education and the schools under BIE’s jurisdiction. I am confident today’s hearing will 

help advance real solutions that ensure Native American children have access to 

safe and healthy schools that support quality teaching and learning. 

With that, I will now recognize the ranking member, Congresswoman Fudge, for 

her opening remarks. 

Ms. FUDGE. Good morning. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you all for being here today. 

School facilities are a problem in poor communities across this 

country, but especially so in Native American schools. 

It has been more than 7 years since this committee held a hearing on American Indian education. That is far too long. American 

Indian students need and deserve better. 

American Indian students face daunting educational challenges, 

more than any population in this country. The condition of their facilities is only one of the many challenges they face. 

We also need to turn our attention to academic issues, including 

but not limited to graduation rates. In 2014 students attending Bureau of Indian Education schools graduated at a rate of just 53 percent, while American Indian and Alaska Native students enrolled 

in non-BIE schools had a graduation rate of 68 percent, still well 

below the national average of 81 percent. 

It is clear the Federal Government has failed to meet its obligation to deliver quality education services that meet all students’ 

needs in safe and healthy facilities. 

In BIE, tribally controlled, and public schools much needs to be 

done. But today we will examine the condition of Bureau of Indian 

Education facilities. 

The poor condition of school buildings affects the health and safety of students and fails to provide an environment conducive to 

learning. In a February 2015 report, the GAO outlined some of the 

challenges facing the Department of Interior and the Bureau of Indian Education that affect the repair and maintenance of BIE 

schools. 

GAO is here today and I look forward to hearing more about 

your findings, especially what steps must be taken to address and 

prevent these issues going forward. 

There must be collaboration among all entities with responsibility for the education of American Indian students in order for 

them to achieve academic success. While congressional oversight is 

required to ensure the Department of Interior and the Department 

of Education fulfill their obligations to American Indian students, 

we know the long history of broken federal promises to our tribes 

and their children, which requires extra vigilance. 

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5 

It is important for those responsible to know this is a priority 

and we are watching. The need is too urgent for us to do nothing. 

To the witnesses, I thank you for being here today and I look forward to hearing your testimony. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

[The statement of Ms. Fudge follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. Thank the ranking member. 

Pursuant to committee rule 7(c), all members will be permitted 

to submit written statements to be included in the permanent 

hearing record. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for 

the official hearing record. 

I will now turn to the introduction of our distinguished witnesses. 

And first, I recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr. 

Kline, to introduce our first witness. 

Mr. KLINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I am extremely pleased to have the honor today to introduce our 

first witness, who is Ms. Jill Burcum. I was asked, when we were 

talking about setting up this hearing and when Mr. Rokita and I 

made the trip up to northern Minnesota to look at the deplorable 

conditions in one of our schools, well, why was I doing that; and 

I said, ‘‘Well, because of the work that Ms. Burcum had done in the 

Star Tribune of bringing this issue to our attention.’’ 

She is an editorial writer with the Star Tribune in Minneapolis. 

She joined the editorial board in March of 2008 after working in 

the Tribune’s newsroom as an editor and reporter for 10 years. 

She authored the Star Tribune’s four-part series on BIE schools 

entitled ‘‘Separate and Unequal.’’ And just this week Ms. Burcum 

was named a 2015 Pulitzer Prize finalist for editorial writing for 

this series. And so we are very, very proud of her. 

We are happy that you are here. We thank you for being here. 

And I yield back. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

And let me add my welcome, as well. 

I will resume introducing our witnesses. 

President Brian Cladoosby is the president of the National Congress of American Indians here in Washington, D.C. and is the 

chairman of the Swinomish Indian Senate. President Cladoosby 

also serves as the president of the Association of Washington 

Tribes and is a member of the executive board of the Washington 

Gaming Association. Previously he served as president of the Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians. 

Welcome, sir. 

Mr. Quinton Roman Nose, who I have met before, is the executive director of the Tribal Education Departments National Assembly in Boulder, Colorado. Mr. Roman Nose has dedicated most of 

his career in the Indian education field to promote and develop 

educational initiatives and opportunities to improve the education 

levels of Native American students and tribal members. 

Welcome, sir. 

Ms. Melissa Emrey-Arras is the director of education, workforce, 

and income security issues with the U.S. Government Accountability Office in Boston, Massachusetts. Ms. Emrey-Arras oversees 

the agency’s K–12 and higher education work, including leading 

national studies on BIE schools. 

Particularly welcome today. Thank you for your hard work. 

I will now ask our witnesses to stand, if you would, and raise 

your right hand. 

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9 

[Witnesses sworn.] 

Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. 

And you may be seated. Thank you. 

And before I recognize you to provide your testimony, let me 

briefly explain the lighting system. You will have 5 minutes to 

present your testimony. When you begin, the light in front of you, 

of course, will be green; with 1 minute left it will turn yellow; and 

when it becomes red that means stop. 

As simple as that sounds and is, sometimes it is hard for us up 

here to abide by it, so I say it as much for us as I say for you. But 

with that, I don’t expect there will be any issues. 

And now I would like to recognize the witnesses for 5 minutes 

of questioning starting with Ms. Burcum. 

Go ahead, please. 

STATEMENT OF MS. JILL BURCUM, EDITORIAL WRITER, 

MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 

Ms. BURCUM. Chairman Rokita, Chairman Kline, Ranking Member Fudge, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for your 

sincere interest in American Indian education— 

Chairman ROKITA. Ms. Burcum, put the microphone right to your 

mouth. Thank you. 

Ms. BURCUM. This better? 

Chairman ROKITA. Just turn it. There you go. There. 

Ms. BURCUM. All right. 

So thank you for your sincere interest in what is a national crisis: the shameful conditions of school buildings in the federal Bureau of Indian Education system. 

My name is Jill Burcum. I am an editorial writer with the Star 

Tribune newspaper based in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Our Upper 

Midwest coverage region is home to many large tribal nations. 

I went on the road in 2014 with photographer David Joles to document safety and structural failures of the facilities in which some 

of our nation’s most disadvantaged learners attend class. The results were published in a series of editorials at the end of the year 

called ‘‘Separate and Unequal.’’ The editorials drew an outraged response from across the nation as we revealed the shameful conditions of these facilities. 

Many readers felt the same way I did. As a mom, I thought 

many times I would not be comfortable sending my children to 

school in these buildings. And I believe that committee members 

would feel similarly about sending their children, grandchildren, 

nieces, or nephews to schools with roofs that leak, have rotten subflooring, dangerously inadequate electrical systems, sewers that 

back up, and have classrooms so cold that kids have to wear mittens, coats, and hats in class. 

Unfortunately, parents in the BIE system don’t have a choice on 

where their kids go to school, and this is why action is required. 

When we first began digging into the issue we focused on the 

plight of the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig High School on the Leech Lake 

Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota. Conditions were far 

worse that we had feared. 

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10 

This is a school housed in something Midwesterners call a pole 

barn. These are metal sheds widely used on farms and by businesses, but not for schools. 

The Bug school, named after Chief Hole in the Day, is not even 

in a nice pole barn. It is more than 30 years old. The metal walls 

don’t keep out the extreme winters. The foundation and roof leak. 

Electrical cables and pipes line the walls, and teachers can’t even 

turn on all the electrical equipment at the same time. The science 

classroom lacks safety equipment needed for hands-on learning and 

experiments. 

The heating system has been repaired more times than anyone 

can remember, and one of the days that I visited it failed again. 

The repairmen just shook their heads when I asked them how long 

they could keep resuscitating it. 

It quickly became clear that the Bug school was a symptom of 

a broken BIE system. There are 183 schools with about 49,000 students. Sixty-four of these schools are in poor condition, and many 

of them have been in this condition for a decade or more. 

Here is what that inaction means in the real world: On the Pine 

Ridge Reservation in South Dakota, I stood on a rotten wooden 

floor in one of the main hallways at Crazy Horse High School and 

I felt like the floor was going to give way beneath me. The Wounded Knee Elementary School at the western edge of the Pine Ridge 

Reservation should be a safe, secure place that offers hope to the 

students that it serves. Instead, this badly aged and underequipped building mirrors the conditions in a nearby drug- and 

crime-ridden neighborhood that local residents refer to as a prairie 

ghetto. 

In Arizona, a school administrator became emotional when I 

called. One of the two remote schools she oversees had been slated 

for replacement for over a decade. She had been told by BIE officials that nothing could be done. 

Her reaction when a newspaper from Minnesota called was, 

‘‘Thank God.’’ She was simply glad that someone cared and someone was trying to help. 

You would think conditions like this inspire urgency at the federal agencies that oversee these schools. They haven’t. Replacement school construction has shrunk dramatically over the past 

decade. Incredibly, it was zeroed out in the Obama administration’s 

2013 and 2014 budget requests. 

My interviews and exchanges with Interior Secretary Sally 

Jewell and BIE Director Charles Roessel did not inspire confidence. 

I believe they both personally care deeply about American Indian 

students, but there is a longstanding defeatism within Interior 

about improving conditions, and there is an entrenched, spread-out 

bureaucracy too often focused on red tape for red tape’s sake and 

not on progress. 

One story I was told by the American Horse School in South Dakota is that they spent days working on a grant application only 

to be told multiple times they had submitted it on the wrong-colored paper. What a waste of time. 

In the meantime, no one is doing anything at this agency about 

a school replacement list that was over a decade old and still not 

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11 

complete. Where are these agencies—where is this agency’s priorities and where in the urgency—where is the urgency? 

The burden for Secretary Jewell and Director Roessel is changing 

that culture, and I have yet to hear a game plan for how they intend to do that. And I hope that we pursue this. 

Thank you for your consideration and your time. 

[The statement of Ms. Burcum follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. I thank the witness. 

President Cladoosby, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF MR. BRIAN CLADOOSBY, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL CONGRESS OF AMERICAN INDIANS, EMBASSY OF 

TRIBAL NATIONS, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Good afternoon, Chairman Rokita, Ranking 

Member Fudge, and members of the committee. My name is Brian 

Cladoosby. I am the chairman of the Swinomish Tribe located in 

Washington State, and I am appearing today as president of the 

National Congress of American Indians. 

Thank you for inviting me to testify today on this very important 

topic. 

One of the first things I ask members of Congress and the administration when I meet them is, ‘‘Are you my trustee?’’ In my 

State of Indian Nations address over the past 2 years I have focused on ensuring that the trust relationship between the Federal 

Government and tribes is upheld and brought into the 21st century. 

Nowhere is that more important than with our youth, because 

when we talk about our youth not only is the Federal Government 

a trustee, but so am I. As president of NCAI, chairman of the 

Swinomish Tribe, a father, and a grandfather, there is no more solemn obligation as a leader than to safeguard our children. 

The future and very existence of our tribes depends on the education, health, and well-being of the next generations. So today, 

when we talk about Indian education and the Bureau of Indian 

Education specifically, we need to think about how we can modernize and elevate and antiquated system to meet the needs of 21st 

century Indian students. 

Historically, inconsistent federal policies have undermined the 

success of Native students. You only need to look at the current 

graduation rate at BIE schools of 53 percent to know that change 

is needed. 

In fact, when we look at all the challenges our Native students 

face, all the baggage they bring, the historic trauma, it is commendable that five out of 10 of our students succeed in conditions 

that would seem insurmountable to many others. 

The challenges at BIE schools are well documented by congressional hearings, by GAO, OIG reports, and by the administration 

itself. In Senate testimony, Interior Secretary Jewell, who is ultimately responsible for BIE schools, stated, ‘‘Indian education is an 

embarrassment.’’ 

Many students attend schools that were built in the 1930s and 

1940s, with 34 percent of the schools in poor condition and 20 percent over 40 years old. It is difficult to attract teachers to the rural 

areas where many BIE schools are located, and if you do, there is 

often inadequate housing. 

Management at headquarters has been inconsistent, with 33 BIE 

directors in the past 36 years. Tribes have repeatedly pointed to 

overly burdensome administrative requirements, lack of funding, 

and lack of flexibility to include language and culture in the curriculum as persistent obstacles. 

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17 

To move forward we need sustained, consistent growth, along 

with an acknowledgement that tribes are best suited to determine 

and meet the needs of their students. 

Since its beginning in the late 1800s, the BIE system never allowed tribes to truly control the education of their students. It 

wasn’t until the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act of 1975 that tribes had the ability to take over the operation of their schools. The last 40 years have shown that tribes 

have the capacity to run their own schools, but more must be done. 

With 184 BIE schools located on 63 reservations in 23 states, 

this reform effort will not succeed if it is not modified to the individual needs of the schools. Each school is subject to the federal requirements of the BIE as well as the state they reside in, which 

leaves little flexibility, even for those schools that are tribally controlled. 

So a one-size-fits-all approach will not work. Tribes want the 

ability to have more control over their curriculum so that language 

and culture can again be the cornerstone of education for Indian 

students. 

It will be important for the BIE to meet the tribes where they 

are and take into account their capacity and their cultural needs, 

and to provide the tools tribes need to support their students, their 

teachers, and their communities. In other words, true local control 

will take a true partnership. 

But it can be done. At the White House Tribes Nation Conference 

last December, a tribal leader asked BIE Director Monty Roessel 

for advice on transforming to a tribally controlled school. Monty’s 

response surprised many in the room when he said, ‘‘My advice is 

to start fresh.’’ 

Too many tribal schools end up looking just like the BIE model. 

Monty advised that tribal leader to build his ideal curriculum 

based on the traditions, culture, and unique needs of the students, 

and if he did that, his school would be a success. If that is truly 

the approach that the BIE and the committee takes in seeking solutions to the issues facing our students, then we can’t help but be 

successful. 

At Swinomish we have a Tribal Education Department with a 

mission of supporting a lifelong student education. We have made 

it a point to work respectfully and collaboratively with the local 

schools, parents and guardians, students, and other tribal departments. 

The tribe has been fortunate enough to hire 12 paraprofessionals 

to support and advocate for our Native students with the school 

district, and they are able to track each student’s grades, attendance, and are available for specialized tutoring should the need 

arise. We have an attendance officer who supports students and 

families to ensure student attendance and will offer rides should 

students miss a bus or school bus. 

These investments in our Swinomish students have led to a graduation rate of Swinomish students of 100 percent last year, up from 

50 percent in 2010. 

And finally, I would like to invite you to come out and visit our 

youth. 

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Chairman Rokita, I know that you have recently visited BIE and 

tribal schools in Arizona and I commend you for that. And clearly 

that has informed your agenda here today to make sure all of our 

Native students are provided with the best educational opportunities possible. 

And to all other committee members, I invite you to meet our 

students, see our schools, and help us build a brighter future for 

our students and our tribes. 

Thank you very much. 

[The statement of Mr. Cladoosby follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Roman Nose, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF MR. QUINTON ROMAN NOSE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TRIBAL EDUCATION DEPARTMENTS NATIONAL ASSEMBLY, BOULDER, COLORADO [DEMOCRAT WITNESS] 

Mr. Roman Nose. [Speaking native language.] 

Good morning. 

Chairman Rokita and Ranking Member Fudge, I am Quinton 

Roman Nose. I am Cheyenne from Oklahoma. I am also the executive director of the Tribal Education Departments National Assembly, a nonprofit organization for the education departments of 

American Indian and Alaskan Natives. 

I come here in a spirit of my great grandfather. He came in the 

late 1800s with Captain Pratt seeking funding for the very first 

boarding school, Carlisle Indian School. Came here seeking a better 

life for our Indian students through education. 

I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today, and I thank 

Representative Rokita for setting this important hearing. Over 90 

percent of our American Indian students are education in SEAs 

and public schools. The Bureau of Indian Education still oversees 

185 schools, serving about 41,000 students. 

Overall, the federal education policy is failing Native American 

students. Native American students drop out of high school at a 

higher rate, score lower on achievement tests than any other group. 

The national dropout rate for Native American students is double 

than that of their peers. 

Likewise, the Office of Civil Rights report Data Collection Snapshot recognized that Native American elementary and secondary 

students in public schools are disproportionately suspended and expelled. OCR also found that Native American kindergarten students are held back at twice the rate of their Anglo counterpart, 

and 9 percent of our Native American ninth-graders repeat the 

ninth grade. 

We have many sources of data reflecting underachievement in 

Native American students. I would like to point out that even 

though a report released by the Department of Education on March 

16th of this year indicates that graduation rates for American Indian students have increased in recent years, however, Native 

American students continue to have the lowest graduation rates of 

all ethnic and racial groups. 

At the same time, tribal governments involved in the education 

of Native American students have been severely restricted until recently. Since 1988, Congress has authorized funding specifically to 

build tribal capacity to directly serve Native American students. 

Funds were recently appropriated for the first time, but these tribal education agencies, TEAs, need continued funding in order to 

fulfill critical needs of Native American students. 

TEAs are in a unique position to halt and reverse the negative 

outcomes for Native American students. TEAs have already proven 

they are capable of improving Native American student outcomes. 

As an example, Chickasaw Nation, one of the STEP grantees, 

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dents. Ninety percent of senior students participating in that program enrolled in college. The work of the Nez Perce Tribe in 

Idaho—their TEA is another good example. 

The most recent research shows that the achievement in Native 

American students have found a connection between low achievement and low cultural relevance. The Nez Perce Tribe, another 

STEP grantee, has made a large inroad to providing teacher training on the integration of cultural pedagogy, tribal education standards, and Common Core standards. 

While TEAs can assist in curbing the challenges, the challenges 

are widespread. For instance, the FCC estimates that the percentage of Americans in rural tribal communities without access to 

fixed broadband—it is eight times higher than the national average. 

There was a rulemaking committee estimated that 61 of the 183 

BIE schools were in poor condition and that bringing them to fair 

condition would cost $1.3 billion. TEDNA supports efforts to build 

or repair school buildings for tribal schools and would encourage 

more funding and a smoother, streamlined process so that more 

buildings can be completed under the original plans. 

As the GAO reported in the series report, BIE needs better management and accountability, improved oversight of spending, and to 

greatly upgrade many facilities. TEDNA generally supports the 

current BIE reorganization plan, but wants to ensure that there is 

local and regional input from tribal leadership. 

The BIE reorganization plan will move toward allowing more 

tribes to have more control of their education system even though 

we recognize it will be a difficult process. We are aware of arguments from both sides, the pro and cons, of the reorganization plan. 

We support the efforts of those tribes and their TEAs who are willing to participate in this process. 

We appreciate the BIE Sovereignty in Education grant. We also 

applaud the House’s initiative for appropriating TEA fundings on 

25 U.S. Code Section 2020, a historic appropriation. The recent initiatives recognize the importance of TEAs. 

In closing, while there are serious challenges facing Native 

American students, there are promising TEAs and programs that 

are currently making advances. With the assistance of the House 

appropriating funds for TEAs, we are hoping to continue to make 

gains and provide TEAs with a greater role in the education of 

their students. 

Again, I thank you, Chairman Rokita, for recognizing the importance of Native education and the challenges we are facing in educating our students. 

Should you have any questions, I am happy to answer them. 

Also, we will be submitting written testimony within the 2-week 

period. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Roman Nose follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

Ms. Emrey-Arras, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF MS. MELISSA EMREY–ARRAS, DIRECTOR, EDUCATION, WORKFORCE AND INCOME SECURITY ISSUES, U.S. 

GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE, BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. Thank you. 

Chairman Rokita, Ranking Member Fudge, and members of the 

subcommittee, thank you for inviting me here today to discuss 

GAO’s work regarding Indian Affairs’ oversight of and support for 

Indian education. 

Over the past 10 years, Indian Affairs within the Department of 

Interior has undergone several reorganizations, resulting in multiple offices across different units being responsible for Indian education. 

Within Indian Affairs, the Bureau of Indian Education oversees 

185 elementary and secondary schools that serve approximately 

41,000 students on or near Indian reservations in 23 states. These 

schools receive almost all of their funding from the Department of 

Interior and the Department of Education. 

Student performance at these schools has been consistently 

below that of Indian students at public schools, raising questions 

about whether students at these schools are, in fact, receiving a 

quality education. 

My remarks will cover findings from our prior work. Specifically, 

I will focus on three key management challenges at Indian Affairs: 

one, its administration of schools; two, the capacity of its staff to 

address school needs; and three, accountability for managing school 

construction and monitoring school spending. 

In terms of administration, we have found that organizational 

fragmentation and poor communication undermine administration 

of these schools. In addition to the Bureau of Indian Education, 

multiple offices have responsibility for educational and administrative functions at these schools. 

For example, Indian Affairs provided us with a chart on these offices, and I think you can see it on the side. And this is just a chart 

for just school facilities. And as you can see, it shows numerous offices across three organizational divisions. 

Fragmentation and poor communication among Indian Affairs offices has led to confusion among schools about whom to contact 

when they have problems, and it has also resulted in delays of key 

educational services and supplies like textbooks to students. 

In 2013, we recommended that Indian Affairs develop a strategic 

plan for the Bureau of Indian Education and a strategy for communicating with schools. Although Indian Affairs agreed with the recommendations, it has not yet fully implemented them. 

Limited staff capacity within Indian Affairs poses another challenge to addressing school needs. Indian Affairs data indicate that 

about 40 percent of its regional facility positions, such as architects 

and engineers, are vacant. 

We also found that staff do not always have the skills and training that they need to oversee school spending. We recommended 

that Indian Affairs revise its workforce plan so that employees are 

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placed in the right offices and have the right skills to support 

schools. Although Indian Affairs again agreed with this recommendation, it has not implemented it. 

Inconsistent accountability also hampers management of school 

construction and monitoring of school spending. We have found 

that Indian Affairs did not consistently oversee some school construction projects. For example, at one school we visited Indian Affairs spent $3.5 

million to replace multiple roofs in 2010. The new roofs have 

leaked since they were installed, causing mold and ceiling damage. 

And again, there is another picture. Indian Affairs has not addressed the problems, resulting in continued leaks and damage to 

the structure. 

At another school we visited, a high voltage electrical panel was 

installed next to the dishwasher, which posed a potential electrocution hazard. School facility staff told us that although the building 

inspector had approved this configuration before it opened, safety 

inspectors later noted that it was, in fact, a safety hazard. 

In 2014 we found that the Bureau of Indian Education does not 

adequately monitory school expenditures using RBM procedures or 

risk-based monitoring approach. As a result, the bureau failed to 

provide effective oversight of schools when they misspent millions 

of dollars in federal funds. 

We recommended that the agency develop RBM procedures and 

a risk-based approach to improve its monitoring. Indian Affairs 

again agreed, but it has not yet implemented these recommendations. 

In conclusion, our work shows that Indian Affairs continues to 

face challenges overseeing and supporting Indian education. Unless 

these issues are addressed, it will be difficult for Indian Affairs to 

ensure the long-term success of a generation of students. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Ms. Emrey-Arras follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentlelady. 

I would like to recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr. 

John Kline, for his questioning. 

Mr. KLINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thanks, to the witnesses. A great panel. 

Sometimes I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when I am hearing these stories. It is just absolutely incredible. 

Mr. Burcum, when we were up at the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig school 

the other—oh, a couple of weeks ago now, I mean, it is clearly appalling. It is the northern part of Minnesota, spring time, and yet 

there is still snow on the ground and ice on the lakes, and it is cold 

and there are drafty openings, and it is just appalling. 

I know that—it is my understanding, at least, that you have 

talked to Secretary Jewell about the Bug school particularly. What 

do they say? 

Ms. BURCUM. That is a very good question. Secretary Jewell has 

also visited the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig school and I think, you know, 

her visit inspired hope that there is going to be a new school sometime soon. 

But when I had exchanges with Secretary Jewell and Dr. 

Roessel, there is no plan, as far as I can tell, to rebuild the school. 

And what they tell me is that, number one, they have many other 

schools in tough shape, as hard as that is to believe, and that, you 

know, their hands are just tied. There is no funding available, they 

are busy doing this bureaucratic reorganization. 

It just doesn’t seem like there is, you know—there is a lot of defeatism, I think, within that agency. It is like it has been a problem 

for so long that maybe collectively, you know, even new leadership 

throws up its hands even after they have seen the conditions at 

these schools. 

Mr. KLINE. Again, laugh or cry. 

Ms. Emrey-Arras, the GAO has done an enormous amount of 

work, and you personally have done an enormous amount of work. 

And I am looking—we have a paper copy of what you showed on 

the screen up there, and in discussing the situation over the last 

few weeks I have made the point that you have a bureaucratic 

mess. Just a bureaucratic mess. 

Who is in charge? We talked about the Secretary of Interior, but 

you have got the BIA, you have got the BIE, you have got the Department of Education, you have vacancies. You just have a mess. 

Why do you think, since we have known about this for a long 

time, to—and many of us more now aware of it, thanks to Ms. 

Burcum’s work—why do you think it is so slow to be recognized 

and improved, and where is the particular—or most particular—obstacle that keeps us from addressing this problem? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. That is really tough to answer. We have had 

multiple recommendations that would really get at the heart of a 

lot of these issues: Have a plan. Know what you are doing. Have 

the right people with the right skills with the right training to do 

their jobs. 

And those recommendations have remained unaddressed. Or perhaps they will do something but it remains in draft form and it is 

never realized. 

So it continues to create issues— 

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Mr. KLINE. Is that because of the change in leadership, or what 

prevents this from coming to fruition here? Because clearly nobody—nobody can go visit one of these schools and not say, ‘‘We 

need to fix this.’’ 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. Right. 

Mr. KLINE. But it doesn’t happen. 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We have noted that the turnover in leadership has been an issue. I think also there is lack of communication 

with schools. 

When you showed that chart, I don’t think most people could understand what was going on there. We had experiences with 

schools where they had real issues. They were out of hot water in 

elementary schools. They needed to get hot water for their kids and 

they didn’t know who to contact, and it took sometimes a year to 

get those hot water heaters replaced. 

Mr. KLINE. Well, looking at this chart and listening to your testimony, knowing the work you have done and the work all of you 

have done in this, it seems to me that we just can’t let up. 

I mentioned to a number of people that Congress itself is not well 

organized to address this. We are having this hearing in Chairman 

Rokita’s subcommittee where we have jurisdiction, if you will, over 

the U.S. Department of Education, who has about this much to do 

with this issue, and virtually zero to do with the building construction issue. 

So we are not well organized here either, but we can’t let—we 

in Congress can’t let that be an excuse, and I think we all owe it 

to these kids to get past the confusing charts and the way we are 

organized in Congress and say it is somebody else’s. It is time now 

for it to be all of our responsibility, and we should never visit a 

high school built on a pole barn that was designed for—to work on 

cars and trucks, and you have got kids in there in the winter, in 

the cold, wearing their coats and mittens because it may be easily 

30 below zero outside a little metal wall with gaps this big letting 

that cold air in where you have a blanket to stop it. 

My time is expired. I yield back. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank the gentleman. 

Ranking Member Scott is recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Roman Nose, can you—you mentioned some very successful 

programs. Could you describe those again and what the results of 

those programs were? 

Mr. Roman Nose. There are several successful TEAs. The one 

that I will be referring to is a result of four grants given to tribes, 

their TEAs, in which to work with states in a partnership to look 

at one of the federal title programs that are given to the local 

school district. So the TEA and the LEA and the SEA come together to look at how that program is implemented. So it is up to 

the tribe to pick what title program they are going to work with. 

Also, within the bureau they are just starting that process with 

Section 2020. And so I think things are looking up, but when you 

look at the minimal number of tribes who receive these grants— 

four for STEP, six for SIEA, and I am not sure how many are going 

to receive the new Section 2020 grant—but you look at 565 tribes, 

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you know, the TEA, you know, needs are very, very much undermet. 

Mr. SCOTT. Well, when you implemented those programs where 

you implemented them, did they make a difference? 

Mr. Roman Nose. Yes, they did. I think the overall success in 

every one of them, regardless of what title program they looked at, 

is that there was more communication, more collaboration, more 

learning of what the other party does between the TEA, the SEA, 

and the LEA. 

Mr. SCOTT. Did you show academic improvement? 

Mr. Roman Nose. I think in some instances there were. There 

were more about the structure of how a program is developed, not 

test scores. 

Mr. SCOTT. Okay. Well, do you have evaluations of those programs that we could see? 

Mr. Roman Nose. I will contact them and make whatever evaluations are available to you. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you. 

Ms. Emrey-Arras, how long—do you know how long these programs—these problems have been known? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We have been reporting at GAO for decades 

on issues specifically regarding facilities. 

Mr. SCOTT. There are a number of specific issues that came up. 

One is the quality of the teachers. Did you find anything being 

done to recruit highly qualified teachers? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We have done some work in the past on 

teacher recruitment and teacher turnover issues. Back in 2001 we 

reported that turnover rates at BIE schools were much higher for 

teachers than at public schools and that one of the struggles that 

schools faced in recruitment was just really the remote locations of 

the schools. One of the schools was telling us that it was over 90 

miles to major shopping, which was a difficult thing to sell people 

on when you are trying to hire a teacher for a job. 

Mr. SCOTT. Was anything being done about that? I mean, you say 

the problem. Was there a solution? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. Our work has not focused on best practices 

for that issue; we focused on documenting the concerns that the individuals had at that point. 

Mr. SCOTT. So you didn’t find anybody working on the—you stated the—you identified the problem, but you don’t see anybody 

working on it? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. That was just one small piece of a larger 

study that we did back in 2001, sir. 

Mr. SCOTT. Well, okay. You also found excessive suspensions. We 

know that suspensions are highly correlated with future dropping 

out, crime, unemployment. What is being done to deal with excessive suspensions? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We have not done any recent work regarding 

that issue, but we would be happy to do so if you are interested 

in that. 

Mr. SCOTT. Okay. Did you try to ascertain, following up on the 

chairman’s comment, did you ascertain whether the Bureau of Indian Education has the expertise to do education or whether or not 

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some of this ought to be more appropriately placed in the Department of Education? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We have not looked at that straight on. We 

have looked at the issue of whether the individuals that are doing 

monitoring of school spending have the expertise, and the answer 

was ‘‘not all the time.’’ 

We had people tell us that they were looking at single audits for 

tribes, and they were not accountants, they didn’t know financial 

issues, and they didn’t know what they were looking at, and they 

had no training. So we had concerns. 

Mr. SCOTT. Would that expertise be found in the Department of 

Education? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. That is something that we have not explored, 

sir. 

Mr. SCOTT. I think you mentioned vacancies. Are vacancies not 

being filled because they are not being filled or because there is no 

funding to fill the vacancies? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We will be looking at that as we continue our 

ongoing work. Our facilities study is still in the works and we plan 

on issuing later this year, sir. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank the gentleman. 

In order to accommodate members’ schedules, I am going to reserve my questioning for later and now recognize Mr. Bishop, from 

Michigan, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BISHOP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, to all of you, for being here today. Appreciate your 

testimony. 

I thought I might ask—there has been some discussion today 

and, Ms. Emrey-Arras, I wondered if I might direct this question 

at you: In a world of diminishing resources and funding, if there 

is anything that you could share with us, any ideas that you might 

have with regard to more efficient distribution of resources out of 

the Department of the Interior and the other funding sources. 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. Although our facilities work is still ongoing, 

we did report in our February testimony on one of the practices 

that we have observed so far that is very interesting in terms of 

resources, and that is in eastern Oklahoma there is a group of four 

tribal schools that have gone together to pool resources for facilities, and in doing so, they have been able to hire two architects and 

individuals to help them with their data entry for the facilities 

database. And we have heard that is a promising practice and we 

will continue to look at that as we go forward. 

Mr. BISHOP. Thank you. 

President Cladoosby, I am fortunate, being from Michigan, I—we 

have a number of tribal reservations there and have had the opportunity to visit most of them, and have also had the opportunity to 

review and to see up close and personal their education environments. And it is extremely impressive. 

I don’t think that the vast majority of folks who don’t—haven’t 

seen that understand the role the tribe plays in the education of 

these youngsters and these young individuals, and I wondered if 

you might be able to more clearly give us some kind of description 

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as to the role that the tribe plays in the education of young people, 

and also how that may have evolved over the years. 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Sure. Thank you very much for that question. 

And once again, it always boils down to the bureaucracy that is 

placed on these schools and local control. You know, if tribes have 

the opportunity to develop the curriculum and implement it—and 

places that have been successful in Indian Country have done just 

that. 

There is a lot of historical knowledge that cannot be taught in 

public schools. A lot of things. I can give you a lot of examples of 

historical knowledge that will never be taught in a state-run school 

that can only be taught in a tribal school, just because of our history. 

And so I would say it boils down to just local control. You know, 

we have federal rules; we have state rules that these schools have 

to abide by. But if you just let the locals implement what they 

think is best for their schools, you will have success. 

Mr. BISHOP. There is always some discussion, if I might follow 

up with that question, as to why these environments don’t rely on 

the local public schools around. And you have just mentioned that 

you do some tribal education, including language, customs, history. 

Is there anything that you do that you can do as a tribe in that 

environment that the public schools around can’t do? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Yes. Once again, it gets back to being able to 

teach the kids—you know, we suffer from a lot of historical trauma 

in Indian Country, and as many of you know, the boarding school 

experiences—that historical trauma was not a pretty picture and, 

you know, overcoming that historical trauma is so very important. 

And reacquiring that culture and reacquiring that language, reacquiring those teachings, those customs, those stories is very important. 

And we have been working—in Washington State right now they 

just passed a bill that makes it mandatory that every school has 

to teach tribal culture, and so, you know, those are steps in the 

right direction for states, looking at the importance of that. And so 

those are some of the things that, you know, the tribes are working 

with our local school districts to start implementing. 

Mr. BISHOP. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

I would like to notify committee members that we have had a— 

we have been joined by Congressman Rick Nolan, from northern 

Minnesota. He is off committee, but he is—has a district that includes the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig school that Ms. Burcum originally 

reported on. 

Sir, welcome. You will be recognized in due time. Thank you for 

being with us today. Thanks for the hospitality you gave committee 

members in northern Minnesota. 

Ms. Fudge, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Ms. FUDGE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Emrey-Arras, you, in your testimony, outlined schools that 

have been forced to divert their building maintenance funds so that 

they can use them for facility operations, and you indicate that 

there was at least one school that you found that had—was only 

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being funded at 50 percent of what it needed. Can you please tell 

me what the primary cause of underfunding in BIE schools is? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We have not looked at those underlying 

issues but do report, as you mentioned, that some are using money 

that is intended for keeping the lights on and keeping the buildings 

warm for maintenance, and then what happens is there is this 

domino effect where they pull the money to keep the lights on so 

they don’t fix the rainspouts, maybe, and then the foundation has 

issues subsequently because there hasn’t been regular maintenance. So there is a problem there. 

Ms. FUDGE. Okay. So you are saying that you determined that 

there is a problem but you don’t know why there is one. 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. This is an ongoing study that we are currently working on. The information that we testified on in late February is from this ongoing work, so we do not have recommendations yet from that study. 

Ms. FUDGE. Thank you. But I would argue that some of it is just 

that the Congress doesn’t give the funding to the Department of Interior it should. 

Number two, also to you: Do you believe that moving the responsibility of facilities and repair under BIE as opposed to BIA would 

help the process? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. There have been different processes over time 

where they have done centralization and then decentralization, and 

gone back and forth. I think our primary interest is in making sure 

that whatever structure is present is one that is attuned to the customers, the schools, and as part of that they need to make sure 

that there is communication with schools, the schools— 

Ms. FUDGE. Is that a yes or a no? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. I am sorry? 

Ms. FUDGE. Is that a yes or a no? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We do not have an official position on the 

structure. 

Ms. FUDGE. Thank you. 

Mr. Roman Nose, according to a recent report from the Alliance 

for Excellent Education, there are over 1,200 high schools across 

the country that fail to graduate one-third or more of their students. These schools disproportionately serve low-income students 

and students of color. In four states—Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota—more than 90 percent of the kids in these 

schools are American Indian and Alaska Native students. 

How can federal policy help to turn these schools around so that 

these young people have an opportunity to succeed? 

Mr. Roman Nose. Thank you for asking that question. I think 

there are many ways of looking at this. 

One is the sole purpose of the STEP program was to get the 

three entities to work together, the federal title programs, the tribal education agency, and the state education agency. In those— 

some of those states that you mentioned, they have not progressed 

to the point that they recognize the value of tribal education agencies in their state. Therefore, some of the states did not choose to 

participate in the STEP program, which is optional. 

Also, the overlying factor of that is TEAs need to know where 

they are at. They need to have good data. And the FERPA issue 

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has been there for many years, and it requires a technical amendment that we just insert tribe so that they can have access to that. 

And also, there is a lack of understanding that because we have 

bureau schools with school boards, many people think that, well, 

the SEA controls the local school boards to some extent. Well, that 

relationship between SEAs and the LEAs is not there for TEA; it 

is in their local school system. 

Sometimes there is a lack of communication, lack of capacity, 

and so forth. 

Ms. FUDGE. Thank you very much. 

President Cladoosby— 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. It is a tough one. Cladoosby. 

Ms. FUDGE. I got you. How does the Department of Interior generally, and BIE specifically, work with tribes to strengthen leadership and administrative capacity in order to support tribal control 

of schools? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. You know, in my testimony I said that, you 

know, we have had a high turnover at leadership at BIE—33 directors in 36 years. I mean, that is sad. That is a very sad statistic. 

And once again, you know, it boils down to funding and local control. 

And when you look at the two federal school systems that the 

Federal Government operates, they operate the DOD school systems and they operate the BIE school systems. And in 2014 there 

was a $315 million request for school construction for DOD schools; 

there was only a $2 million request for BIE schools. 

And, you know, when—if we could show you a slideshow of what 

a DOD school looks like—a federally run DOD school and a federally run BIE school, and it would be a sad, sad, sad picture. And 

so once again, it gets down to, you know, Congress, as the trustees 

of these young Native American kids, needs to bring an awareness 

to this funding disparity. 

Ms. FUDGE. Thank you. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank the gentlelady. 

Now I recognize Mr. Grothman for 5 minutes. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Thanks. I have a few questions. First one is for 

Ms. Emrey. 

Looking at the memorandum we have prepared here, there is a 

line that says in the November 2014 report, GAO found BIE-operated schools spend 56 percent more per pupil than public schools 

nationally, and that is kind of a shocking number. I mean, I guess 

maybe it proves one more time that the amount of funding is 

overrated. But is that an accurate statement? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. That is accurate. And it actually may be a 

lower bound estimate because the BIE schools also have administrative costs that aren’t being included in that, in terms of the 

structure. So they are, in fact, funded at a higher level per pupil 

than the public schools on average. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Wow. Okay. 

If that is so, I will ask Mr.—get your name right— 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Cladoosby. It is a tough one. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. And that is a shocking number, so obviously we 

are putting enough money in this situation. Do you see or do you 

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see a difference on, like, test scores and that sort of thing between 

BIA schools and locally administered schools? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. I think the statistic of 53 percent graduation 

rate compared to 80 percent graduation rate tells a big story right 

there. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. I will give you another question, because 

for whatever reason, we always get these breakdowns by ethnic 

group, which I always think is a—do you folks keep track of breakdown by—or of test scores by family structure? I mean, a lot of 

times—I don’t have any Indian schools in my district, but a lot of 

time the teachers in my district feel one of the things that affects 

educational achievement is the family structure. 

And do you, when you keep track of your statistics either by a 

school or by individual, have statistics showing the degree to which 

maybe some of these problems may be affected by family structure? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Definitely. The parents are the key to the education of our students. 

And I mentioned historical trauma. That has occurred in our 

communities at very, very high levels, and with that historical 

trauma came a lot of poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, run-ins with 

the law, jails, prisons. 

And I can guarantee you 100 percent that if we invest in our 

kids that we will destroy this historical trauma, destroy poverty. 

We will create productive members of society who will pay taxes 

and be removed from the welfare rolls. 

I am a 100 percent believer in that and I am seeing that as I 

travel across the nation to Indian countries North, South, East, 

and West, where these tribes are investing a lot in destroying historical trauma. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. I don’t know the answer to this. I know 

in the United States as a whole we are kind of still going the 

wrong direction on family breakdown. Different people can argue 

why that is. 

But I wonder within the Indian community, are there changes in 

statistics on that—you know, kids raised in a, you know, an intact 

family are not safe today compared to 40 years ago or 80 years 

ago? Do we know? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Yes. Yes. Once again, when I travel across Indian Country I am seeing those tribes that are in locations where 

economic development is making a—great strides, but I am still 

also seeing, like in the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, where we 

have 80 percent unemployment, you know, 80 percent alcoholism 

rate, 80 percent dropout rate. 

So, you know, the location of the tribes plays a big part in it, 

also. But we do also have success stories at Pine Ridge. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. 

Now we will give another question for Ms. Emrey-Arras. 

Can you outline some of the misuses of funding by BIE? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. Sure. So external auditors identified millions 

of dollars that were inappropriately spent. In fact, they identified 

$13.8 million in unallowable spending at the time of our study. 

And one of the examples we found was that a school had lost $1.2 million in federal funds that were improperly transferred to 

an offshore account. Interior later said that they were the victims 

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of a hacking incident, yet there were such weak controls that it remained questionable what, in fact, had happened. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. I will give you a follow-up question, because you just heard what the past person said. Do you, and from 

what you see, a situation which the funds are more wisely used by 

locally administered schools rather than these schools administered 

out of Washington? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We have not done that analysis, sir. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. 

Chairman ROKITA. Gentleman’s time is expired. 

Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. I am sorry. Thanks. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Sablan, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

And good morning, everyone. 

In preparing for today’s hearing, I read the editorial series in the 

Star Tribune that Ms. Burcum—that highlighted the very poor condition of BIE schools in Minnesota. The titles of the series just 

struck me, ‘‘Separate and Unequal.’’ It is, of course, a reference to 

the milestone Supreme Court decision, Brown v. Board of Education, which found that separate by definition cannot be equal 

when it comes to how we educate our children. 

So separating one group of children from another leads to inequality, perpetuates inequality. The situation is of—the situation 

of neglected and inadequate BIE school facilities, which GAO reported was in Minnesota and elsewhere—Montana, North Dakota, 

New Mexico—proves that. 

We have school facilities in my district in Northern Mariana Islands and other U.S. ancillary areas—1,866—that are also substandard. The Office of Insular Affairs at Interior commissioned 

the Army Corps of Engineers a few years ago to rank these facilities by hazards posed to students, and since, federal funding for 

school repairs in the areas have been allocated based on Army 

Corps rankings. Of course, we could use more money to get the job 

done more quickly. 

I understand Chairman Kline and other members who represent 

Minnesota have requested more funding this year for BIE schools, 

and I hope they are successful. And I hope these funds are used 

in a systematic, prioritized way. 

I would like to point out another connection between BIE’s 

schools and schools in my district, and that is the way that Title 

1–A grants in Elementary and Secondary Education Acts are allocated. Funding for BIE students and students for what are called 

the outlying areas—the Northern Marianas, American Samoa, 

Guam, and the U.S. Virgin Islands—is separated out from all other 

Title A funding. 

BIE and the outlying schools receive 1 percent of the total Title 

I funds and then the secretary of education decides how to divide 

that money between BIE and the island schools. And that system 

has resulted in BIE students getting about twice as much as students in my district. 

We are having a hearing today about how bad all the BIE 

schools are, and they are when it comes to school buildings. But 

when it comes to federal funds to help run these schools, well, I 

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have to speak up for students in my district who are getting the 

short end of the stick. 

The problem goes back to the headline in the Star Tribune: ‘‘Separate and Unequal.’’ When we separate one group of students from 

another, inequality arises, and that is the case of Title I funding. 

Instead of treating BIE students and students in the outlying 

areas the same way we treat students in the states, instead of basing funding on the number of students served and on whether 

those students come from low-income households, the Elementary 

and Secondary Education Act has a set-aside, they call it, for my 

students. And set-aside is just another way of sending—saying 

‘‘separate.’’ And separate, as the Supreme Court ruled, is not equal. 

The House has yet to act on reauthorization of the Elementary 

and Secondary Education Act, and I am well aware that there is 

nothing in the bill that Chairman Kline has reported that will end 

this separate but unequal Title I–A funding for Native American 

children in the BIE schools and for the indigenous and diverse student body in schools in my district. But until the House acts on the 

ESEA, we still have an opportunity to change this unequal practice, and I plead on Chairman Kline to please consider my proposal. 

And today’s hearing is just one more opportunity to remind us 

all that until we do change Title I of ESEA, we will continue to 

have students who are separate, not equal. 

And at this time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to yield time to my 

colleague from northern Minnesota, Mr. Nolan, who is a strong 

champion for this issue in Congress. 

[The statement of Mr. Sablan follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. Nolan is recognized. 

Mr. NOLAN. I want to thank Congressman Sablan. 

And I particularly want to thank Chairman Rokita and full committee Chairman Kline for their bipartisan, collaborative determination to get to the bottom of this situation and centuries of neglect of the children in Indian Country here. 

Congressman Fudge, I want to commend you and the other members of the committee. 

I want to also have the opportunity to welcome Jill Burcum for 

her brilliant reporting on this whole issue, and the Bug-O–Nay-GeShig school in particular. 

The conditions are truly appalling. As Chairman Kline said, they 

are horrific. 

It sends a message that we do not honor our obligations. It sends 

a message that children in Indian Country’s education is not important. And in my judgment, it is a level of neglect that rises to 

the level of child abuse. 

And I want to thank everybody here for their efforts and their 

determination to get to the bottom of it and fix it once and for all. 

Last but not least, I come out of the sawmill and the pallet factory business, and we have quite a number of buildings—pole 

buildings, I might add—all of which are in better shape than the 

dilapidated, falling-down, dangerous, half-century-old building that 

the children are trying to be educated in the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig 

school. 

Thank you, everyone. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

I will now recognize Mr. Russell, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. RUSSELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you for the panel and the excellent detail that you 

have provided us today. 

Mr. Roman Nose, it is nice to see you. And I would ask, as we 

examine the BIE school system today, my question for you, sir, 

would be, can you give us one or two recommendations that would 

help improve where the school system is today and how we could 

improve it? 

Mr. Roman Nose. That is a loaded question, but I certainly will 

try and answer that. 

For BIE schools, certainly the local tribes need to be given more 

resources to make them sufficient enough to all the things that an 

SEA has to do with their school district. And also, they need technical assistance to develop infrastructure like curriculum standards, and so forth. 

So the small amount of money we have been given is really not 

sufficient. It is just to build their—start to build their capacity. 

And, you know, once again, if you look to that very small percentage of how much money has been given, there is still great need. 

In that respect, some of the tribes who do have their own resources are going ahead and trying to resolve that issue. 

I think that the BIE, you know, needs to look at maybe different 

models, maybe even a pilot program or turn over those schools who 

what to go to Department of Defense and see how they operated 

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74 

ment of Education. But, you know, the question that tribes would 

have is the question of sovereignty, and so it is a big question, so— 

Mr. RUSSELL. Well, thank you for that, sir. 

And, Ms. Burcum, as you have traveled the country touring 

schools and meeting students, what surprised you the most? 

Ms. BURCUM. I think as we got to know the students my observation is that there is a lot of untapped potential here. You know, the 

statistics are very grim when you look at graduation rates, for example, or reading and math scores. 

But the thing to remember about these students is that they are 

not—they go through so much before they even walk in the door 

of that school. I got to know Seneca Keezer while I was up at the 

Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig school, and she lost her mother at age 12; she 

has two younger sisters; she has a dad who not only has diabetes 

but is in a wheelchair. 

She gets up, you know, her students—or her sisters, she cooks 

them breakfast, she makes sure that they have all their homework 

and gets on the bus before she goes to school. And she also takes 

care of her dad. 

When she comes home she cooks dinner for everybody, supervises 

homework, and then takes care of her dad, helps him with everything, and then she gets to do her own homework, and then she 

gets to go to bed. She does this day after day. 

I felt, as a, you know, a 46-year-old mother, that I was talking 

to a peer, not, you know, a young girl who was a senior in high 

school. 

And a lot of students have similar stories. I mean, we have mentioned the family issues that are, you know, I think, you know, a 

true concern and, you know, potentially, you know, a hurdle to 

learning. 

But there is a lot of that on these reservations. These kids go 

through so much before they go to the classroom. 

And what the cultural education does at these schools is it provides that sense of family that isn’t—that maybe not—that isn’t 

there at home. You have dedicated teachers; you have elders who 

are coming into these schools. At the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig school, 

for example, there are parking spots reserved for elders. 

They are getting something at these schools that they are not 

going to get at public schools, and sometimes they are not getting 

at home. These kids are to be admired, and it is something to take 

into perspective when you look at some of the educational statistics. 

Mr. RUSSELL. Well, thank you for that. 

Mr. Cladoosby, in your opinion, what steps are needed to ensure 

the BIE system effectively serves students? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Well, I think we definitely need to look at the 

long term and look at the plans going forward that we have to understand that there is no quick fix, there is no one-size-fits-all; acknowledge tribal sovereignty in a real way and acknowledge that 

the communities have the opportunity to teach things that the 

other schools can’t; acknowledge historical trauma, that, you know, 

a lot of people probably up there don’t really understand historical 

trauma from a tribal perspective, and it is real, and we are still 

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living it. And I am a firm believer that education will destroy historical trauma. 

And continue to work on building capacity within these schools. 

And, you know, Congress can start right away by, you know, allocating $1.3 billion to create brand new schools in this program. 

$1.3 billion. Let’s just do it. 

Chairman ROKITA. Gentleman’s time is expired. 

Mr. RUSSELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Thompson, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. THOMPSON. I want to thank the chairman and ranking member for putting this hearing together. 

Thanks for all of you folks for coming here, sharing your expertise, your commitment to this really important issue. 

I want to start out and follow up, Ms. Burcum, thank you for, 

you know, providing some transparency on this issue. You know, 

obviously, reading your testimony, your articles that you wrote 

wasn’t—you know, part reporter, part mom. You know, you brought 

that passion to it, and that is appreciated when we are talking 

about education. 

In your testimony you describe the concerning physical conditions of the Bureau of Indian Education high schools. Given your 

interactions with school administrators, parents, students of these 

schools—excuse me—can you elaborate on how these underequipped facilities contribute to the many challenges facing American Indian education? 

Ms. BURCUM. I am glad to do that. That is an excellent question. 

I think the most shocking classroom that I went into was at the 

Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig High School, and we are all acquainted with 

the need for kids to have science and math fundamental skills to 

compete in the workforce. And at the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig school 

the science classroom used to be part of an automotive shop. There 

are no microscopes. They don’t have the safety equipment to do 

chemistry experiments or many biology experiments. The periodic 

table is out of date. 

And I think, ‘‘How are these kids—how are we equipping these 

kids to compete, to pull their communities up and be good citizens 

and parents for the next decades when we don’t have the facilities 

and the classrooms to give them the education that they need?’’ 

You know, science and math are challenging. You need to have 

a hands-on learning experience. 

And I think it is especially helpful for American Indian students. 

You have to have that, and we don’t have that. So that is a way 

that it is holding back students at that school. 

When I was out in the Pine Ridge—on the Pine Ridge Reservation, I talked to the elementary school principal, and she came up 

to me later after we had talked and she said, ‘‘If I could make one 

point to you it is this: If you want to raise reading scores, you need 

to have a library for these children.’’ 

They are so far out. They are 90 miles away from Rapid City. I 

don’t believe that there is a library on the reservation, or at least 

in the communities that I visited. 

So if you want them to read, which is how you get ahead, that 

is how you become a better reader—you want them to raise their 

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reading scores, they need to have books. They don’t even have a library at their elementary school. 

So those are some key ways that learning is being held back by 

the decrepit facilities that we have. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you. 

Ms. Emrey-Arras, given your expertise, how do you think the 

past two restructuring efforts and the Bureau of Indian Affairs further complicated communications from a school’s perspective, and 

how can this be improved? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. I think, quite simply, people do not know who 

to contact when they have problems, and that continues. When we 

talk to schools, they are asking us who they should contact at Interior because it is not clear to them. 

I mean, some really basic things are missing, like an up-to-date 

phone directory. The directory that they have is from 2011. 

And we have pointed this out to them, and on Friday they said, 

‘‘Oh, we have updated our directory. It is all in draft,’’ you know. 

But then we looked on the Web site and it is still the old one from 

2011 up there. So if you are trying to contact someone, you don’t 

know how to reach them. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you. 

This question I will throw out in general: Can any of you discuss 

the academic preparation and academic needs of students being 

served by the BIE school system, and what do you think are the 

benefits of the schools that you have observed? 

Ms. BURCUM. I will respond to that question first. 

First of all, you have a very dedicated staff of teachers who are 

at these schools. The pay is lower than they could have gotten elsewhere; they are often on very remote reservations. They are there 

because they have a real passion and a connection with these kids. 

And I think also—they made a point over and over again that 

I didn’t quite understand, which is that the culture—learning the 

culture enriches the educational experience for these kids and 

makes them better citizens. And I didn’t quite understand until the 

end of my long reporting quest. 

And imbued in their language and culture are values. And I said, 

‘‘Okay, I still don’t understand.’’ 

And finally I was given this example: The Ojibwe word for older 

woman is ‘‘she who holds it all together.’’ The Ojibwe word for older 

man is ‘‘keeper of the earth.’’ There are values that are just implicit 

in this culture that are transmitted and reiterated and reinforced 

when we add that to the curriculum. 

And when you have cultural aspects of the day woven into it, you 

also keep kids coming back. These are kids that have not succeeded 

at public schools, often. They bounce around a lot. It is surprising 

once you actually start looking at the system. 

And they come to this school because they feel comfortable, because they have dedicated staff who are family to them, and they 

feel at one with their culture. And this gets at the historical trauma that my colleague has been talking about. 

They have activities that connect them to their family and their 

communities, such as wild rice harvesting, such as learning how to 

make maple syrup. All of these things keep them coming back. 

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Chairman ROKITA. Gentleman’s time is expired. I thank the gentleman. 

Recognize myself for 5 minutes. And one of the problems with 

going last is that all the questions have been asked and—of course, 

not all, but a lot of ones that I had in mind. 

But it also allows me to take it all in and listen more, and one 

of the things I want to explore is why—and I will ask Ms. EmreyArras first—is it possible, or why can’t the BIA or the BIE be operated more like a school district? I mean, it is—it has geographical 

challenges, obviously, but what if it was just organized and run 

like a decent or well-run school district in the United States? 

Would we get better results? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. We think it should be run in a responsible 

and efficient way, where you have people who are trained for the 

positions that they are tasked with that know what to do and have, 

you know, communications with their colleagues. I mean, just some 

of the basics seem to be missing here. 

Chairman ROKITA. Is there any evidence that they have actually 

looked at—whether it is the DOD, as Mr. Cladoosby indicated— 

looked at the DOD to model, or just any other school district? Is 

there any evidence that they are trying to do anything like that in 

their restructuring plans or anything? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. I am not aware of that. Others may be more 

familiar with that. 

Chairman ROKITA. Mr. Cladoosby? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Yes. I think that would be something that we 

could work together at looking at, you know, what is working at 

the DOD schools versus the BIE schools and what is not working, 

and why. 

Chairman ROKITA. But what if it was run like a school district? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Once again—like a state-run school district 

where— 

Chairman ROKITA. In a rural district or— 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. —where the tribe collects taxes and it is paid 

for that way, or— 

Chairman ROKITA. No, just in terms of its organization, where if 

the water heater was broken you can call somebody and it gets 

done, you know, closer than a year—gets fixed. 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Yes. That is a great question. I mean—go 

ahead, Mr. Roman Nose. I will let you jump in. 

Chairman ROKITA. Mr. Roman Nose? 

Mr. Roman Nose. Certainly the changing of the directors, you 

know, 32 or whatever it was— 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Thirty-three in 36 years. 

Mr. Roman Nose. Thirty-three in 36 years—you know, leadership, if you look at all the SEAs, their superintendent or director 

of education department is there for many years. Some of them are 

there to provide some leadership, plus they have adequate staff— 

trained staff—to do that. And then when you come down to the 

tribal education department, many, many of them lack the resources to actually become a TEA that would be fully functioning. 

And then you look at the curriculum. You have got to understand 

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dent just inside the four rooms of the classroom. We don’t just look 

at the four test scores. 

Someone was asking a question about, you know, comparing the 

family structure to the success of the students. I think the recent 

initiative of Obama where they are putting the generation indigenous together, where they are going to get silos of programs to 

work together to, you know, try to be more productive in providing 

these services and letting them work together, you know, how the 

success of that student. 

You know, education of our students just doesn’t happen inside 

the classroom. It happens outside the classroom just as well. So I 

think— 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank you. And I am one that doesn’t believe 

that the school building makes the school; it is what happens inside it. 

And we have Taj Mahals, in terms of school buildings around the 

United States that I have seen, and they are poor schools. On the 

other hand, as Ms. Burcum and we all identified here, when the 

school building becomes a distraction to learning, as clearly BugO–Nay-Ge-Shig and others are, you know, that is the problem. 

Ms. Burcum, did you—you mentioned briefly a contrast between 

DOD and how this is run. Would you like to elaborate? Or have 

you studied in your reporting—to my earlier question—school districts in a regular suburban or rural setting, and are there any lessons to be learned or any applications that can be made? 

Ms. BURCUM. Well, to your school district question, I—it is an interesting proposition. I would like to think about that a little bit 

more. 

But I would say that I think there are some opportunities for 

more local innovation. For example, I will tell you, Minnesota is 

very interested in the well-being of the students in BIE schools. We 

provide additional funding, and there is an effort being led in the 

state right now to look at public-private partnerships to accelerate 

the building process for BIE schools like the Bug-O–Nay-Ge-Shig 

school. 

So I think that there are lots of opportunities for local innovation; I just don’t think that you have a BIE system that—it doesn’t 

encourage it, and I think that there are a lot of people who feel like 

they are going to be punished, you know, they are going to be put 

down lower on the priority construction list if they try something 

new. And that is wrong. 

Chairman ROKITA. All right. 

Ms. Emrey, can you react to that last point? Do you have any 

evidence to show that— 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. I think people are concerned about the list. 

And in terms of the work that we have done regarding that, we 

have serious concerns about the quality of the data on that, so it 

just—there is a real struggle to know how the agency is going to 

use that list going forward in terms of prioritizing funding when 

there are serious data quality issues with that list to begin with. 

So I think that is something to pay attention to going forwards. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank you. 

I violated my own red light policy, which is why I needed to say 

that earlier. 

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Mr. Takano, you are recognized for 5 minutes. I am not last, as 

a matter of fact. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity. 

In my district I have the Sherman Indian Institute, which is a 

residential school, and I wonder if anyone on the panel could speak 

to the governance of these residential schools. And I find them— 

I find out that the regular meeting—the way the governance works 

is the tribes that send—it is on a pro rata basis. The tribes that 

send students to the schools are involved in governance, but I am 

finding that the boards don’t always have full participation as far 

as the meetings. 

Can you tell me about just the meeting requirements? And do 

people have to come physically to these meetings? Can they do 

them, you know, by teleconferencing? 

Because I think part of the accountability problem is this governance structure, and I have many students that come from a different state that are, in my district in Riverside, many from Arizona and neighboring states. And I find the way the—for parents 

to kind of hold that school accountable is difficult. 

So can you explain a bit about the governance structure and how 

we might improve that, and is that a—do you see that as a problem, in terms of the effectiveness of these schools? 

Ms. EMREY-ARRAS. I would defer to my colleagues on this one. 

Mr. Roman Nose. When you said Riverside is that— 

Mr. TAKANO. Sherman Indian Institute. 

Mr. Roman Nose. Sherman. They are in a category called off-reservation boarding schools, and I am also chairman at the Riverside 

Indian School, which is in Anadarko, Oklahoma. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. 

Mr. Roman Nose. So what you are speaking of, if any tribe—federally recognized tribe of the United States—can send their students to those particular schools. And they are kind of unique because most of the other boarding schools are more the local, regional, tribal level, whereas the ORB schools can get students from 

all over the United States. 

Mr. TAKANO. How many of these residential schools currently 

exist in our nation? Do you know that? 

Mr. Roman Nose. ORB schools I know there are four. I am not 

sure how many there are in the BIE system that are residential 

that are controlled by either the BIA or grant or contract school. 

I don’t have that— 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. But— 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. There are 184 BIE schools, and 14 are peripheral dormitories located on 63 reservations— 

Mr. TAKANO. So there are about 14 of them across the— 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Fourteen, yes. 

Mr. TAKANO. And the governance structure for these 14 schools, 

you know, is based on which tribes send their students to these 

schools, is that correct? 

Do you know just how these meetings are conducted, the rules 

for them? How are parents able—how are parents and the tribes 

able to hold these schools accountable for how effective they are? 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Are you referring to the 14 dormitory— 

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Mr. TAKANO. Yes, the 14 dormitory schools, which I assume 

Sherman Indian Institute is one of them. 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Right, right. Once again, it depends on the location of the parent in regards—relationship to the school. And, you 

know, we have had students go from Washington to Oklahoma, and 

the parents probably did not have a very big say on, you know, the 

local control, local issues. It just depends on location. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, this is kind of more complicated because it is 

not about local control, it is about a school that, say, many of the 

Navajo nations send their young people to. It is many miles away, 

and a school board that doesn’t—I mean, it is a strange governance 

system. 

I am perplexed as to how to turn these schools into centers of excellence. And part of the problem is I am trying to understand the 

governance structure, how regular are the meetings, how involved 

are the tribes in these meetings. 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Yes. That would have to be a follow up to get 

back to you on that to give you a better understanding. 

Mr. TAKANO. Yes. It would be helpful if we could get—I would 

encourage the staff of this committee or some—somehow to get a 

report on all this, because I see a lot of federal resources being put 

into the facilities that are residential, and I am not completely satisfied with the effectiveness. 

Mr. CLADOOSBY. Right. With all due respect, I don’t see a lot of 

money going into facilities in the BIE schools, as we have acknowledged here today. 

Mr. Roman Nose. The students at those residential schools, certainly for the ORB schools, they mainly come there primarily because the economic condition of their family. Their families can’t 

support them, and so that is why they choose to go to one of these 

ORB schools. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, I think it is incumbent upon us to make sure 

that they are truly gateways to opportunity. 

Mr. Chairman, I don’t—my time is—I can’t see a clock, but I 

think I have asked my questions. 

Chairman ROKITA. Yes. There is a red light there. 

Mr. TAKANO. Oh, there. I am— 

Chairman ROKITA. No, I missed it too, Mr. Takano. I thank the 

gentleman. Gentleman’s time is expired. 

I will now recognize Ms. Fudge for her closing remarks. 

Ms. FUDGE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you all for your testimony today. 

Certainly I hope that the Committee on Natural Resources, 

which has jurisdiction over the Department of Interior, will take up 

this issue. All we can do at this point is just make recommendations to the bureau, and I certainly do hope that we will be doing 

that, Mr. Chairman. 

As well, I just want to hopefully impress upon them, as we have 

talked about today, the importance of a culturally relevant curriculum as well as safe schools, and treating all Americans the way 

that our children should be treated. 

And I thank you very much. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank the gentlelady. 

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On behalf of the members who participated today, and also the 

members who couldn’t make it, thank you, each one of you, for your 

testimony today, but more importantly, your leadership. You are 

truly needed to help us solve this issue, and I hope you stick with 

us. 

Small jurisdiction as it is over this issue or not, we intend to be 

involved. We commit ourselves to trying to solve this problem with 

fellow members of Congress. 

And I think all this comes down to leadership—leadership on 

your behalf, those that you represent; leadership on our behalf; 

leadership from the President and the administration of the executive branch. You know, that is also going to be key here. 

And so with that, seeing no more business before this committee, 

let me once again thank the witnesses for coming today. 

This committee meeting is adjourned. 

[Additional submission by Ms. Emrey-Arras follows:] 

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[Additional submission by Ms. Fudge follows:] 

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[Additional submission by Mr. Roman Nose follows:] 

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[Whereupon, at 11:32 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

Æ 

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