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Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia A vi~t{:¥~~Jilt~~~Q !3 "-"••• ~ "·' j. l~--' ., • ' • --.- • - -... 

Federal Aviation Administration 

Office of Hearings 

Federal Aviation 

Administration, 

Complainant, 

v. 

Central Virginia Aviation, 

Respondent. 

Case No. FAA-2013- 0044 

FAA-2012-1263 

Washington, D.C. 

Wednesday, April 10, 2013 

The following pages constitute the proceedings 

held ln the above-captioned matter before the HONORABLE 

J.E. SULLIVAN, held telephonically before Erick McNair 

of Capital Reporting Company, beginning at 

approximately 9:30 a.m. 

RECEIVED 

MAY- 1 2013 

HEARING DOCKET 

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Capital Reporting Company 

Federal Aviation,Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

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APPEARANCES I JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Court Reporter, 

For the Complainant: 2 are you ready? 

Zachary M. Berman 3 THE REPORTER: Yes, I am. Complainant's Counsel Attorney 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We're on the record Office of the Regional Counsel Eastern Region 

Federal Aviation Administration 5 in the matter of Central Virginia Aviation, Inc. This 

I Aviation Plaza Jamaica, NY 11434 6 is combined docket FAA-2013-0044 and FAA-2012-1263. 

For the Respondent: 7 Today is Wednesday, AprillO, 2013. The parties have 

David Gates 8 convened by telephone for a Rule 16 litigation Katherine Gray 9 scheduling conference. Cowan Gates 

I 930 Huguenot Road 10 The FAA is represented by its attorney, 

Richmond, VA 23235 11 Zachary M. Berman. The Respondent is represented by 

12 its attorney, David H. Gates. He is also joined by 

13 another attorney in his office, Katherine G. Gray. 

14 Good morning, counsel. 

15 (Chorus of "Good morning.") 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Folks, before we begin with 

17 substance, Mr. Gates, I just need to know if you're 

18 planning to speak today or if Ms. Gray is. 

19 MR. GATES: I'm planning to speak. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 

21 Then let's start first with the order that 

22 was issued on March 4, 2013, temporarily consolidating 

3 

PROCEEDINGS 1 both these dockets. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Good morning, everybody. 2 Mr. Berman, do you have any objection to 

This is Judge Sullivan. Do I have Mr. Berman on the 3 what appears to be a Respondent's motion to 

line? 4 consolidate these cases for litigation and decision? 

MR. BERMAN: Yes. 5 MR. BERMAN: No, I do not have any 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Gates? 6 objection. 

MR. GATES: Yes. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: . Okay. Then what I will do 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Gates? 8 is I will grant the motion to consolidate, and the 

MR. GATES: Yes. 9 cases will be tried together, and one decision will be 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Could you speak up, sir? I 10 issued for both matters. 

can barely hear you. 11 Then I want to go to the jointly proposed 

MR. GATES: All right. Katherine Gray is 12 schedule and discovery plans. I'm happy to adopt 

here also. And that's why we're on speakerphone. 13 almost all of the deadlines that the parties have 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That's better. 14 proposed. I do need to know a little bit more about a 

Thank you. 15 couple of different things, and I'll start with you, 

And do I have the Court Reporter here, 16 Mr. Berman. 

McNair? 17 Can you tell me about how much time you 

THE REPORTER: Yes, ma'am. 18 think this hearing will take for the consolidated 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 19 case? 

Mr. Berman, is there anyone with you sitting 20 MR. BERMAN: I think it should take about, 

in as an observer? 21 say, two-three days. 

MR. BERMAN: No. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Three days? Is that just 

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Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

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for your case in chief or for everybody? I MR. GATES: Yes, it would. 

MR. BERMAN: Well, for my case in chief, I 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Benmn, I think 

think it should take a day. 3 you would be coming the farthest. Now, do you want to 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 4 travel on Sunday, Monday? Do you have a preference? 

MR. BERMAN: At most a day. 5 MR. GATES: Oh, I'd rather not travel on 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So two days for 6 Sunday, with the-- I don't know how the 

everybody? 7 sequestration, the furlough is going to factor into 

MR. BERMAN: Yes. 8 it. So there might be complications in traveling on 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Gates, would you 9 Sunday. So I think I'd prefer not to travel on a 

agree with that, or do you have a different idea? 10 Sunday. 

MR. GATES: I would be surprised if it took 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So would Monday as a 

two days. I would think it would probably take one 12 travel date be acceptable to you? 

day. 13 MR. GATES: Yes. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Just so that you 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So if we have 

know, I'm looking at page 2 of the jointly proposed 15 Monday, January 13th, as the travel day, then we're 

scheduling/discovery plan that the parties tiled on 16 looking at Tuesday, January 14, and Wednesday, January 

February 11, 2013. And on page 2, you apparently have 17 15, for the hearing dates, with Thursday, January 16, 

agreed to the venue of Richmond, Virginia, which I'm 18 as the return travel day. And this would all be in 

happy to adopt. 19 the year 2014. 

I should let you know that December 3rd, 20 That means -- and I'm going to look at your 

2013, is not available on my calendar. And I think 21 plan in just a minute. Okay. 

what might work best for us is to find the date for 22 Mr. Berman, turning back to you, how much 

7 

hearing, and then we can work back to some of these 1 time prior to the hearing do you usually like to 

other deadlines, because it makes no sense to have a 2 exchange your lists of witnesses and your exhibits? 

deadline and then a dead space of a month or two for 3 MR. BERMAN: I guess three or four weeks 

the trial. 4 would be sufficient. 

So I'm going to go to December-January, 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and Mr. Gates, does 

essentially. And I'm going to start with December 6 that sound good to you? Do you have a preference? 

2013 and see what potentially is available for a two- 7 MR. GATES: That's fair. 

day trial in Richmond, Virginia. 8 JUDGE SULLTV AN: Okay. Do you have a 

I'm going to accept the two days for now 9 preference, sir? 

because one never knows. And I find that it's always 10 MR. GATES: I would probably say a month. 

better to en on the side of a little bit of bounty II JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Since we've set the 

than not to have enough time when the parties come 12 trial for January 14, 2014, Jet's backtrack to the 

together. If we don't use all two days, then the 13 December calendar. And how about setting the exchange 

parties can go home early. 14 of witness lists and exhibits for Wednesday, December 

I will be in trial the first two weeks of 15 18, 2013? Does that work for you, Mr. Berman? 

December. My first opening would be the week of 16 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 

January 13th. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Gates? 

Mr. Berman, looking at your calendar, would 18 MR. GATES: Yes. 

that week work for you? 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what I'm going to do is 

MR. BERMAN: Yes, it would. 20 I'm also going to set that as the date for filing --

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Gates, how about 21 no, actually I should ask you both, do you want to 

for you? 22 have a date for filing stipulations, written 

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Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

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stipulations to narrow the scope of the trial? I I'm happy to adopt your July I, 2013, deadline for 

Usually, what I'd like to do is give you a due date 2 completing general discovery. I'm going to add in 

after the dispositive motion calendar so that if you 3 some supplemental discovery time for you, however, 

find that you can stipulate further and reduce the 4 since we have some time to do that. 

cost of the hearing, you can, then you have a deadline 5 After July I, 2013, why don't we plan 

for it. 6 on a July 15, 2013, due date for filing your 

Mr. Berman, would that be acceptable to you? 7 supplemental discovery requests? And that would be, 

MR. BERMAN: Yes. 8 of course, the last day for parties to exchange 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Gates? 9 requests for supplemental discovery that arose, say, 

MR. GATES: Yes. Can you hear me? 10 for example, during a deposition you may have taken 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, I can, sir. Thank you II before July I, 

very much. 12 2013. 

How about, why don't we set that stipulation 13 And then we can extend to, say, August 23rd, 

date for December 4, 2013? And I'll make it for 14 2013, the deadline for finishing the exchange of 

written stipulations and motions in limine. 15 supplemental discovery, if such was needed. 

That doesn't prohibit you, of course, from 16 Mr. Berman, do you have any objection to 

making further motions and stipulations up through the 17 that? Would that be helpful to you? 

date of the hearing and beyond. But that way, it 18 MR. BERMAN: I don't have any objection. 

gives you a chance to talk to each other and put 19 That would be fine. 

together some things that potentially could help you 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Gates, how about 

eliminate some evidence that is agreed upon, that 21 for you? 

you're honing in on whatever you need to prove that's 22 MR. GATES: No objection. 

II 

in dispute. 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then I'll adopt your 

I'm taking a couple of notes here. 2 September 3rd, 2013, deadline for filing dispositive 

Okay. So let's backtrack then and start 3 motions. I'll adopt your October 3rd, 2013, deadline 

with the beginning dates. Because now I have a frame 4 for filing an answer to the dispositive motions. And 

on which to place it. 5 then I will adopt your October 18, 2013, deadline for 

You have indicated May 1, 2013, for filing 6 filing any reply. 

the initial discovery requests. And I'm thinking that 7 Let's talk about setting up oral argument. 

we can have an additional date, because initial 8 I typically like to have oral argument set up so that 

disclosures, according to the Civil Rules, is 9 I can ask questions regarding the motions that are 

ditlerent from general disclosure. And typically, you 10 filed. And I'm going to look at my calendar. 

would have, by this time or shortly thereafter, a II How about looking at the week of October 

complied- with initial disclosure pursuant to CR 26. 12 28th for a one-hour telephone conference for oral 

And I'm wondering if we can't just set the 13 argument on any of the dispositive motions<J 

initial disclosure deadline for a week from now. And 14 Mr. Berman, looking at your calendar, do you 

then we'd have the general discovery's start date 15 have any preferred dates? 

begin on May 1, 2013. 16 MR. BERMAN: I'm just checking. For October 

Mr. Berman, do you have any objection to 17 28th? 

that? 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. The week of October 

MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. 19 28th, do you have any preferred dates? 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Mr. Gates? 20 MR. BERMAN: Oh, the week of. Okay. The 

MR. GATES: That would be fine. 21 29th, the 30th, or the 31st. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And then I will-- 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Any times during 

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• Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

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I those days that are better or worse for you? I writing what we've just talked about this morning. 

2 MR. BERMAN: No. No, my schedule is open, 2 In addition to the deadlines that we've 

3 for now. 3 talked about, this order will also include various 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. Gates, how 4 procedural instructions for how to mark your exhibits, 

5 about for you? 5 how to file for a motion, and how to contact my ot1ice 

6 MR. GATES: Those dates would work if we 6 to set up an oral argument, if you need a motion date 

7 could do it in the afternoon. 7 and an oral argument date other than what we've 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. How about October 8 identified for today. There's information about how 

9 29, 2013, say, would I :30 p.m. be acceptable, Mr. 9 to perfect a motion to compel if you're having trouble 

10 Gates? 10 with discovery. Those kinds of things will be 

II MR. GATES: It would. 11 included in the order. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Bennan? 12 If you have any questions about those 

13 MR. GATES: Yes. 13 procedural matters, please feel free to contact Mr. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So noted. 14 Smith, who's the attorney advisor working with me on 

15 And then we have a little gap of time 15 these cases. And his phone number and name will be 

16 between October 29, 2013, and the written stipulations 16 included in the very last paragraph of the order, 

17 due on December 4, 2013. Basically, that gives me a 17 above my signature, so that you can find it easily. 

18 little time to issue any written decision on 18 With that, it appears our business is 

19 dispositive motions, which hopefully would be helpful 19 complete. We can go off the record, and I wish you 

20 to you in setting up your final witness list and 20 all a very good day. Thank you so much. 

21 exhibit exchange. 21 (Whereupon, the hearing was 

22 Just as a cautionary note, please keep this 22 concluded.) 

• 15 17 

I date of October 29 on your calendar. If no I CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 

2 dispositive motions are filed, J will hold it as a 2 I, ERICK McNAIR, the officer before whom the foregoing 

3 pre-hearing conference and find out what the status is 3 deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the 

4 of your case. 4 witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing 

5 Mr. Berman, starting with you, do you want 5 deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of 

6 to have any telephone conference set closer in time to 

6 said witness was recorded by me and thereafter reduced 

7 to typewriting under my direction; that said 

7 the trial as a final pre-hearing status conference? 8 deposition is a true record of the testimony given by 8 Or are you comfortable with the schedule as it's 9 said 'Yitness; that I am neither counsel for, related 

9 outlined so far? 10 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action 

10 MR. BERMAN: I'm comfortable with the way II in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that 

11 the schedule is now. 12 I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Gates, how about 13 attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor 

13 you? 14 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 

14 MR. GATES: That's fine. 15 this action. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Berman, starting 16 

16 with you, is there anything else that we can address 17 

17 on behalf of your client today? 18 ERICK McNAIR 

18 MR. BERMAN: I have nothing else. Notary Public in and for the 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you very much. 19 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 

20 You've made my job very easy, which I appreciate. 20 

21 I'm going to send out an order setting 21 

22 litigation dates and procedures that will codifY in 22 My commission expires: July 14, 2016 

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Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 

2 I, ELLEN SANDERS, hereby certifY that I am not the 

3 Court Reporter who reported the following proceeding 

4 and that I have typed the transcript of this 

5 proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes and 

6 recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript is a 

7 true, correct, and complete transcription of said 

8 proceeding. 

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Date ELLEN SANDERS 

Transcriptionist 

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Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 

2 I, ERICK McNAIR, the officer before whom the foregoing 

3 deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the 

4 witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing 

5 deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of 

6 said witness was recorded by me and thereafter reduced 

7 to typewriting under my direction; that said 

8 deposition is a true record of the testimony given by 

9 said witness; that I am neither counsel for, related 

10 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action 

11 in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that 

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I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or 

attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor 

financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 

this action. 

~%~ ERICK McNAIR 

Notary Public in and for the 

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 

22 My commission expires: July 14, 2016 

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• Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

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1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 

2 I, ELLEN SANDERS, hereby certify that I am not the 

3 Court Reporter who reported the following proceeding 

4 and that I have typed the transcript of this 

5 proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes and 

6 recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript is a 

7 true, correct, and complete transcription of said 

8 proceeding. 

9 

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Transcriptionist 

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Capital Reporting Company 

Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

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Capital Reporting Company 

Federal Aviation Administration v. Central Virginia Aviation 04-10-2013 

PageS 

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