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64–547—PDF 2009

S. HRG. 111–900 

NOMINATIONS OF WILLIAM V. CORR, 

DEMETRIOS J. MARANTIS, AND ALAN B. KRUEGER 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

ON THE

NOMINATIONS OF 

WILLIAM V. CORR, TO BE DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF 

HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES; DEMETRIOS J. MARANTIS, TO BE A 

DEPUTY U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE WITH THE RANK OF AMBASSADOR; AND ALAN B. KRUEGER, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR 

ECONOMIC POLICY, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY 

APRIL 30, 2009 

( 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Finance 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

MAX BAUCUS, Montana, Chairman 

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia 

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota 

JEFF BINGAMAN, New Mexico 

JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts 

BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas 

RON WYDEN, Oregon 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

BILL NELSON, Florida 

ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

CHUCK GRASSLEY, Iowa 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine 

JON KYL, Arizona 

JIM BUNNING, Kentucky 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

RUSSELL SULLIVAN, Staff Director 

KOLAN DAVIS, Republican Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

(II) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Baucus, Hon. Max, a U.S. Senator from Montana, chairman, Committee 

on Finance ............................................................................................................ 1 

Grassley, Hon. Chuck, a U.S. Senator from Iowa ................................................. 3 

Conrad, Hon. Kent, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota ...................................... 4 

ADMINISTRATION NOMINEES 

Corr, William V., nominated to be Deputy Secretary, Department of Health 

and Human Services, Washington, DC .............................................................. 5 

Marantis, Demetrios J., nominated to be a Deputy U.S. Trade Representative 

with the rank of Ambassador, Washington, DC ................................................ 7 

Krueger, Alan B., nominated to be Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy, 

Department of the Treasury, Washington, DC .................................................. 8 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL 

Baucus, Hon. Max: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 29 

Conrad, Hon. Kent: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 4 

Corr, William V.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 32 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 34 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 44 

Grassley, Hon. Chuck: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 3 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 58 

Krueger, Alan B.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 60 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 63 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 71 

Lautenberg, Hon. Frank R.: 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 85 

Marantis, Demetrios J.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 86 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 88 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 97 

(III) 

(1) 

NOMINATIONS OF WILLIAM V. CORR, 

TO BE DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT 

OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES; 

DEMETRIOS J. MARANTIS, TO BE A DEPUTY 

U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE WITH THE 

RANK OF AMBASSADOR; AND ALAN B. 

KRUEGER, TO BE ASSISTANT 

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC POLICY, 

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY 

THURSDAY, APRIL 30, 2009 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE, 

Washington, DC. 

The hearing was convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:11 a.m., in 

room SD–215, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Max Baucus 

(chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Conrad, Wyden, Nelson, Grassley, Hatch, and 

Enzi. 

Also present: Democratic Staff: Bill Dauster, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel; Liz Fowler, Senior Counsel to the Chairman and Chief Health Counsel; Kathy Koch, Chief Tax Counsel; 

Ayesha Khanna, International Trade Counsel; Amber Cottle, International Trade Counsel; Janis Lazda, Trade and Economics Advisor; Darci Vetter, International Trade Advisor; Chelsea Thomas, 

Professional Staff; Diedra Henry-Spires, Professional Staff; and 

Mary Baker, Detailee. Republican Staff: Stephen Schaefer, Chief 

International Trade Counsel; David Ross, International Trade 

Counsel; David Johanson, International Trade Counsel; Michael 

Park, Health Policy Counsel; Susan Walden, Health Policy Advisor; 

Kevin Courtois, Health Staff Assistant; and Nick Wyatt, Tax Staff 

Assistant. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MAX BAUCUS, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM MONTANA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

The CHAIRMAN. The hearing will come to order. 

Theodore Roosevelt said, ‘‘Far and away, the best prize that life 

offers is a chance to work hard at work worth doing.’’ 

Congratulations to all three of you, for you have won the best 

prize. You have all been nominated by the President to work very 

hard, doing incredibly worthwhile things. You will be serving and 

leading not only the agencies to which you have been nominated, 

2 

but the United States of America. The President thinks that you 

are all up to the challenge, and I agree. 

Mr. Corr, you have dedicated 35 years to health care policy. You 

have spent a lifetime preparing for the job. You started at the Tennessee Department of Public Health in 1972. You put in many 

years of hard work on several subcommittees in both the House 

and Senate. You worked as Chief of Staff for HHS Secretary 

Shalala. You worked as Chief Counsel and Policy Director for Leader Daschle, and you headed the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. 

Mr. Corr, your prize for this hard work is more hard work. [Laughter.] 

As Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services, you will 

help lead the administration in the monumental task of health care 

reform. We clearly need a health care system that meets all of our 

needs. We need a high-performing health care system that guarantees all Americans affordable quality coverage no matter their age, 

health status, or medical history. 

Health care reform will help to stabilize our economy, and it will 

help to make sure that we are prepared to handle our long-term 

fiscal challenges. The path to economic recovery is through health 

care reform. The President stated that, as has Peter Orszag, and 

as has almost everybody else who has paid some attention to this 

issue. 

In the coming weeks, the Finance Committee will continue to 

hold health care reform roundtables and walk-throughs to discuss 

policy options. By June, we will be ready for a Finance Committee 

mark-up. We will be working in good faith. We are making good 

progress, but Congress cannot do this work alone. Earlier this week 

we confirmed Secretary Sebelius to head HHS. She will need a 

strong team at HHS to help pass comprehensive health reform. 

Then there is the work of maintaining the operations of this vital 

department. We will need proven managers at HHS. We need an 

assessment of the adequacy of the resources at HHS top to bottom, 

and we will also need to reauthorize the TANF program this year. 

The challenges before you will be great. You, and we, will have to 

work very hard to accomplish these tasks, but I can think of little 

that could be more worthwhile than to accomplish them. 

Mr. Marantis, you have a wealth of experience in international 

trade. As a lawyer at USTR, you gained hands-on experience enforcing our international trade agreements. As my Chief International Trade Counsel, you advised me, and many members of 

this committee and Congress, on U.S. trade policy for the past several years. I must say, I cannot think of anybody who gave us better advice. 

You know well that Montana’s and America’s workers are my top 

priority, and you have worked hard to look out for America’s workers as we compete in the international marketplace. You have dedicated yourself to public service. You have worked extremely hard 

to ensure that Congress finds the right balance on international 

trade. Your prize for all this hard work is more hard work. 

As Deputy U.S. Trade Representative, you will be responsible for 

helping this administration find the right balance on trade policy, 

and in so doing you will help America retain its economic strength 

in the global economy. 

3 

This is a vital task, and I can think of no better person for this 

job. Demetrios, I could go on and on and on about how good you 

are at your work. I know it, my whole staff knows it, everybody you 

have worked with knows it: you are aces. But I do not want this 

to turn into a filibuster, nor do I want to embarrass you any more 

than you probably already are. Suffice it to say, I will look forward 

to continuing to work with you in your new role, and that is going 

to be a great job you have, and it is going to be just terrific and 

a lot of fun working with you in this new capacity. 

Professor Krueger, you dedicated your career to the study of economics. More importantly, you have focused your work and study 

on the economics of labor markets and the workers who are the 

very backbone of America’s economy. No matter what economic policy this administration makes, America’s workers will feel it. You 

know that, I know that, and we must never forget it. Your prize 

for all this hard work is more hard work. 

Professor Krueger, in your papers, research, and writings you 

have shown that you are not afraid to shake things up. You say 

what you think. You have used your research to question other 

people’s findings; sometimes you have questioned your own. You 

have shown you are not afraid of new ideas. So I say, take that ingenuity and creativity with you to this new position, and I know 

you will. 

Our country is in difficult times, and the President has called 

upon all of you to help lead. With your guidance, I am sure that 

America will emerge stronger than before. So I encourage you, all 

of you, to seize this opportunity. I encourage you to work hard at 

the worthwhile tasks that you have been given, and I hope that 

you can thereby help to ensure that we all receive the prize of a 

better tomorrow. 

Senator Grassley? 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHUCK GRASSLEY, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM IOWA 

Senator GRASSLEY. Mr. Chairman, I am not going to give up my 

time, but I want to put a statement in the record and speak off the 

cuff to our three nominees. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Grassley appears in the appendix.] 

Senator GRASSLEY. I want to start with the three or four words 

you just used about Mr. Krueger, that he shakes things up. I believe in congressional oversight, and each one of you three people 

has been involved in one way or another with powerful members 

of Congress who have also been involved in oversight. I spend a 

great deal of time on oversight. 

I am glad to have each of you before us today with the experience 

that you have in oversight, particularly you, Mr. Corr, because 

where you come from, your former boss has quite a reputation for 

doing oversight. I hope it is as vigorous in Democratic administrations as it is in Republican administrations. I hope I have a reputation for doing it evenly, whether you have Republicans or Democrats. 

So, my pleading to all of you would be, since you know all about 

the congressional responsibility of oversight—you probably know 

4 

we probably do not do enough of it, but those of us who do do it, 

I hope that I can plead with you in understanding that, when we 

write letters, that we get answers to our letters. 

And more so than just getting answers to our letters, that we get 

it answered right the first time. I think, with the frustration you 

would have had with previous administrations, you would appreciate those of us who want to do oversight, want answers, and 

those of us who believe that the public’s business ought to be public, that there should not be anything to hide. 

In some of these departments in the Bush administration, I did 

not get the cooperation that I should have had. I thought it was 

disrespectful of a Republican Senator, but it is disrespectful of any 

Senator of any party, of any administration, of either party, when 

we do not get that proper response, just doing our job, you know. 

So I would plead with you, since you have had experience of 

maybe not getting responses right away, that you would help us 

get our answers quicker, faster, and more accurately without pulling teeth, and with the understanding that the public’s business 

ought to be public. Sometimes congressional oversight is part of 

that process. In that way, I hope you never retaliate against any 

whistleblower because you know, in your work particularly, Mr. 

Corr, that whistleblowing is a source of information that is very 

important. 

So, I hope you are in a position not only to cooperate with them, 

but also to protect them when they are needlessly harmed, because 

they are ruined professionally, you know. We should not ruin anybody’s profession just because they are trying to be patriotic Americans and reporting what is wrong. 

Thank you all very much. I look forward to working with you. 

More importantly, congratulations on each of your appointments. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you, Senator. 

I might say to all of you that what Senator Grassley said is really true, and we back each other up. That is, when Senator Grassley 

sometimes asks an agency for information and does not get it, I 

help him, and vice versa. There have been times—although one 

might, today, wonder—when the Republican party has been in the 

majority and in that case, when I made a request, he has backed 

me up, and vice versa. So, we are a team. We are not tyrannical 

about it, but we are also very forthright about it too, and I know 

you will respond in kind. 

Today’s panel begins with you, Mr. Corr. The Senator from North 

Dakota has asked to introduce you. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. KENT CONRAD, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA 

Senator CONRAD. Mr. Chairman, Senator Grassley, Senator Enzi, 

it is my honor to introduce William Corr as President Obama’s 

nominee to be the Deputy Secretary for Health and Human Services. He does not really need an introduction around here because 

Bill has been an important part of the health scene in Washington 

for more than 30 years. I will not repeat all of his positions; Senator Baucus has already done that. 

But I think all of us remember well his service as Chief Counsel 

and Policy Director for Leader Daschle. That is the role in which 

5 

I knew him and worked with him the most. I just want to say that 

the most important thing about Bill Corr is that he is an outstanding person. 

He is honest, he is hardworking, he is a straight shooter, and he 

treats people—even the people with whom he disagrees—with respect, and we need a lot more of that in Washington. So I could 

not be more pleased than to introduce Bill Corr and to welcome 

him and ask this committee to pass on his nomination quickly and 

in a favorable manner. 

We are very fortunate in this country to have people of his quality and his character who are willing to take on positions in public 

service. I thank the members. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator, very much. 

Next, after Mr. Corr, we will have, obviously, Demetrios Marantis, who has been the Chief International Trade Counsel of this 

committee, and has been nominated to be a Deputy U.S. Trade 

Representative. Next, Alan Krueger, nominated to be Assistant 

Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy. 

Thank you all three for coming. Our usual practice is to put your 

prepared statements in the record, and we will do that and would 

encourage you to summarize your statements. 

But before we proceed, Mr. Corr, there is an opportunity now for 

you to introduce your family here. 

Mr. CORR. Thank you so much, Senator Baucus, and for your 

opening comments, and Senator Grassley, for yours. Senator 

Conrad, thank you so much for that very gracious introduction. 

Senator Enzi, it is a pleasure to see you again. 

You all know well that, in positions like the one I am about to 

enter into, if you do not have the support of your family, they are 

very hard to do. It is with enormous gratitude that I would like to 

introduce my wife, Susan Steinmetz, and my daughter, Allison 

Corr, who actually happens to work on the House side these days. 

And our second daughter, Leah Corr, is at the University of Virginia taking an exam at this moment. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, good luck. I hope she does well. 

Mr. CORR. Thank you, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. What is the course? What is she taking? 

Mr. CORR. She is a psychology major, and she is taking social 

psychology as the exam today, and three or four more to follow. I 

think we all remember those days. 

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, we do. 

Mr. CORR. Not very pleasantly. 

May I proceed? 

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Why don’t you all stand up, family, so we 

can show our appreciation? Your whole family. All right. Good. [Applause.] 

Mr. CORR. May I proceed with a few other quick remarks? 

The CHAIRMAN. Absolutely. 

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM V. CORR, NOMINATED TO BE DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN 

SERVICES, WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. CORR. I wanted to acknowledge the enormous importance of 

the mission of the Department of Health and Human Services and 

6 

the career employees who work there. The mission is of critical importance to our Nation, and it inspires public service. The mission 

is to protect the health of all Americans and provide essential 

human services, especially for those who are least able to help 

themselves. 

The more than 65,000 employees at HHS work every day to help 

deliver health care, to support children and families, and to protect 

public health. Their work touches on virtually every American. It 

is with enormous pride that I return to that department and to the 

men and women of the department who work so hard on behalf of 

our country. It is a deep honor to be nominated by the President 

and to have the opportunity to work with Secretary Sebelius as she 

leads the department in its critical mission. 

I wanted to just point out a few things about my past, because 

I think they are very relevant to the committee. Having worked in 

the Appalachian Mountains of eastern Tennessee setting up primary health care centers, community health care centers, I learned 

firsthand what it means to try to deliver care in a rural area. I also 

learned how important it is that we prevent disease rather than 

have to treat it. 

In my work in the Congress, I have learned how valuable it is 

for the department to maintain a strong and productive working 

relationship with the Congress. Senator Grassley, I can assure you 

that we will be doing that with you in your oversight responsibilities. 

If confirmed, I certainly will be returning to the department with 

an enormous level of energy and excitement about the opportunity 

to work with the 10 very important agencies. HHS is a huge department, ranging from the Administration on Children and Families to the NIH to the Indian Health Service. It is a place of very 

dedicated individuals. 

I have returned at this time when it is so important, with health 

care reform being one of the major issues before the Congress, for 

the department to provide support, technical assistance to the committee, and to other committees on the Hill so that you can undertake this monumental task. 

If confirmed, I certainly look forward to working closely with the 

committee and others in the Congress to ensure that health reform 

is implemented quickly, effectively, and consistent with congressional intent. Given the enormous other responsibilities beyond 

health reform for this department, including now this crisis involving H1N1 flu, the department, if I am confirmed, will do everything 

in its power to work closely with the committee as it undertakes 

these major responsibilities. 

In closing, if I might say, I truly believe in the ability of the Department of Health and Human Services to make this country 

healthier and safer for all Americans, and I am deeply honored to 

have the opportunity, if confirmed, to carry out its mission. 

Thank you so much, Senator Baucus. And Senator Conrad, 

again, thank you for your very gracious introduction. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you, Mr. Corr, very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Corr appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Marantis, this is the opportunity now for you 

to introduce your family. 

7 

Mr. MARANTIS. Thank you, Senator Baucus. I am very happy 

that my mother and my father, Cleo and Zachary Marantis, were 

able to come today, as well as my sister and brother-in-law, Denise 

and Evan Graff. 

The CHAIRMAN. Could you all please stand so we can recognize 

you? [Applause.] 

I must say to your parents directly, what a great son you have. 

Mr. MARANTIS. Thank you, Senator. 

The CHAIRMAN. I know you know it, but I just want to confirm 

it from my perspective. 

STATEMENT OF DEMETRIOS J. MARANTIS, NOMINATED TO BE 

A DEPUTY U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE WITH THE RANK 

OF AMBASSADOR, WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. MARANTIS. Thank you, Senator Baucus, Senator Grassley, 

and members of the committee. I am humbled to sit before you 

today as you consider my nomination to be Deputy U.S. Trade Representative. I am deeply honored to have been nominated for the 

post. 

I have spent the past 4 years on the other side of the committee’s 

dais on Senator Baucus’s Finance Committee staff. Chairman Baucus, thank you for the opportunity to serve you, this committee, 

and the people of Montana. Thank you, Senator Grassley, for the 

kindness and support you have shown me over the years. The relationship between the two of you is an example of the fairness, 

trust, and honesty that I hope to replicate throughout my career. 

I would also like to thank my family here who came today, as 

well as those who are here with me in spirit. I would also like to 

thank the staff—the wonderful staff—of the Senate Finance Committee, whom I have worked with for the past 4 years and have 

made this job really special. 

Sitting today at this witness table, I know that the position for 

which I have been nominated promises to be the greatest challenge 

of my career. I do not take that challenge lightly. I approach it 

with humility and dedication. I also approach that challenge with 

15 years of experience gained from working in international trade 

in the public, private, and nonprofit sectors. 

Yet, what I have done in my career is not as important as the 

lessons I have learned. I have learned that good trade policy requires the courage to pursue the tough negotiations that yield the 

biggest benefits for America’s economy, as well as the courage to 

walk away from the deal that just is not good enough. Good trade 

policy also requires the creativity to find new tools to enforce our 

current agreements so that our country’s farmers, ranchers, manufacturers, and small businesses can benefit from trade. 

Good trade policy also requires inclusiveness, consulting with all 

stakeholders even if we do not ultimately agree. I have learned 

that good trade policy requires the tenacity to doggedly pursue unscientific non-tariff barriers in the agricultural sector, as well as 

unfair subsidies that undermine America’s manufacturers. 

Good trade policy also requires the vision and optimism to realize 

that small trade agreements and sectoral deals can grow into a bigger regional or global opportunity for our country’s exporters. My 

experience has taught me that good trade policy can work to the 

8 

benefit of the poorest countries around the world, as well as to the 

world’s economic heavyweights. 

Yet, the most important lesson I have learned comes from my 

past 4-plus years working on the Senate Finance Committee. That 

lesson is that good trade policy is simply not possible without your 

support and without the support of your colleagues in Congress. 

That support depends on recognizing that this administration’s 

trade policy directly affects the workers, farmers, and ranchers in 

each of your States and across America. 

I do not pretend that winning your support for this administration’s trade policies will be easy; the issues this committee faces 

never are. But I have watched all of you, under the leadership of 

Senators Baucus and Grassley, try to form one product out of so 

many different voices. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does 

not, but what you have taught me is that we cannot hope to make 

progress on any one issue, no matter how easy or how controversial, if we do not try to work through our differences together. 

It is these lessons that I hope to take with me to the job of Deputy U.S. Trade Representative. If I am confirmed, I will apply 

these lessons and build upon them. I will use them to find a way 

to manage our existing challenges, whether it is our trade and economic relationship with China or the issues associated with our 

trade agreement with Korea. 

I also pledge to use these lessons to work toward new opportunities, including reform of our trade preference programs for the developing world and tackling the trade and competitiveness issues 

associated with climate change. These challenges occur in a time 

of profound skepticism in international trade and in an environment of historic economic uncertainty and instability. Meeting 

these challenges is a daunting prospect, but America thrives in adversity when we all work together. As history tells us, America’s 

trade policy thrives when we approach it as a common, bipartisan 

endeavor between the Congress and the administration. 

Thank you for considering me for the position of Deputy U.S. 

Trade Representative. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Demetrios, very, very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Marantis appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Krueger, and your family? 

Mr. KRUEGER. Thank you. Let me introduce my parents, Rhoda 

and Norman Krueger, and our daughter Sydney and my wife Lisa. 

Our son is currently attending classes at Princeton University, so 

he cannot be with us. [Applause.] 

The CHAIRMAN. You may never see your son or your husband 

again because he will be working so hard. [Laughter.] 

Mr. KRUEGER. I think my son appreciates that, that I am no 

longer around campus. [Laughter.] 

STATEMENT OF ALAN B. KRUEGER, NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC POLICY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY, WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. KRUEGER. Chairman Baucus, Ranking Member Grassley, 

Senators Conrad, Hatch, and Enzi, I thank you and your staff for 

the work that you have done in considering my nomination, and I 

9 

am honored to be here today. I am grateful to President Obama 

and Secretary Geithner for asking me to serve at the Treasury Department at this critical moment for our Nation’s economy. I am 

also deeply grateful to my wife Lisa and to our children, Ben and 

Sydney, for their support and their willingness to allow me to return to working in the government. 

My family has a tradition of public service. My mother worked 

as a first grade teacher in East Orange, NJ, and my father had a 

long career as a certified public accountant and as an Army veteran. My wife is a math teacher in our local public high school 

from which our son graduated and which our daughter currently 

attends. I have been very fortunate to work as a professor of economics and public policy at Princeton University for the last 22 

years. 

My teaching has primarily been in the area of labor economics, 

statistics, and public finance. I take great pride in the fact that one 

of the students in the very first undergraduate class I taught is 

now a Cabinet Secretary, OMB Director Peter Orszag. 

I have conducted research on a range of topics, from unemployment and social insurance to terrorism and time use, from bond 

markets to labor markets, and from the economics of education to 

the economics of Super Bowl tickets. I have tried not to be tied to 

a particular doctrine of economic thought in my work and instead 

have sought to develop the best evidence possible to test theories 

of economic behavior. 

I took a public service leave from Princeton and served as Chief 

Economist of the U.S. Department of Labor in the mid-1990s. After 

returning to academia, I distilled three important lessons from my 

experience in the government that influenced my outlook today. 

First, although as Senator Baucus mentioned, my main specialty is 

the labor market, a sound financial system is essential for economic 

prosperity, stability, and job growth. 

Second, it is essential for the public to be well-informed about economics and finance. In this regard I have written regularly for the 

public on economics, I have prepared a textbook for high school students on economics and personal finance, and I have also served 

as Chief Economist for the Council on Economic Education. 

Third, in the long run our prosperity depends, first and foremost, 

on our human capital. Human capital, defined as the skills and 

abilities possessed by the workforce, accounts for the largest share 

of our national income. I am humbled and honored to have the possibility of serving the Nation, should I be confirmed. If you and 

your colleagues in the Senate give me the opportunity to serve as 

Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy at the Treasury Department, I promise to apply my human capital to the best of my ability to justify your trust and confidence. 

Thank you very much. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Professor. You confirmed one of my 

theories, which is: you show me an achiever, and you clearly are 

one, and I will show you that there is a higher probability that one 

of his parents was a teacher. I have always suspected that, and you 

just confirmed it. 

Mr. KRUEGER. And you made her day. [Laughter.] 

The CHAIRMAN. And you are making hers, clearly. [Laughter.] 

10 

All right. I have standard questions I have to ask each of the 

three nominees, and I will ask them of all of you. 

First, is there anything that you are aware of in your background 

that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office 

to which you have been nominated? 

Mr. Corr? 

Mr. CORR. No. 

Mr. MARANTIS. No. 

Mr. KRUEGER. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Do you know of any reason, personal or otherwise, that would in 

any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been nominated? 

Mr. CORR. None. 

Mr. MARANTIS. No, sir. 

Mr. KRUEGER. No, I do not. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Do you agree, without reservation, to respond to any reasonable 

summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of Congress, if you are confirmed? 

Mr. CORR. Yes, I do. 

The CHAIRMAN. Great. 

Mr. MARANTIS. Yes. 

Mr. KRUEGER. Yes, I do. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. All right. 

I will start with you, Mr. Corr. As we pursue meaningful health 

care reform this year—and that is a tremendous opportunity we all 

have, to put in place a transformative, game-changing new paradigm in health care policy, one that addresses quality in America, 

one that allows for coverage so all Americans have health insurance, and one that begins to control the increase in costs in this 

country. 

It is critical that you, among many others—especially you at 

HHS, the Secretary, you, the administrator, and so forth—rejuvenate CMS and HHS in a very creative way so that the agency, the 

department, feels that it is all on the same team. That is, there are 

some here who think that HHS sometimes is sclerotic, it is just 

hidebound, not very creative, a crank-turning bunch of folks there, 

just not very thinking. We cannot have that. Without getting into 

whether it is true or not, we just cannot have it. 

I just very, very strongly urge you to do all you possibly can to 

help address the morale—not that it is bad, but boost morale—at 

the department in the relevant agencies so that we can implement 

meaningful health care reform. I would like you just to comment 

on that. 

Mr. CORR. Certainly, Senator Baucus. Thank you for that opportunity. It is a matter of morale. It is also a matter of vision. I think 

the administration, starting with the President, has laid out a vision for health reform. You, and this committee, have laid out a vision for health reform. We are entering a time when it is absolutely 

critical, as you say, that CMS employees and others throughout the 

department build upon that vision. 

There are many things that we have learned that need to be applied. We have learned that there are ways that we can, through 

11 

payment reform, improve outcome, we can improve quality. We 

have the opportunity, because of the resources that Congress has 

provided, to improve health information technology. We have resources through the Recovery Act to expand our workforce and to 

focus more on prevention. 

All of those need to also be realized in the way CMS operates. 

There are opportunities outside of new legislation for Medicare and 

Medicaid to move forward with the same vision that is being articulated by you and others now for health reform. I know Secretary Sebelius feels that way, and she is going to be looking for 

a very visionary and aggressive CMS administrator and for others 

to fill the key positions in CMS. I hope that it will not be very long 

before you will be saying to us, you are now doing what CMS needs 

to be doing. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I appreciate that. Not to be argumentative, 

but there are some very, very thoughtful people in health care who 

really seriously wonder whether CMS is up to the job. They think 

it is even arguable whether it does a decent job in implementing, 

and it is not up to the task of designing the new reforms that we 

have in mind. That has not been their job and they are not, therefore, staffed up in that regard. 

Some suggest we need another sort of outfit alongside of CMS to 

do the design work, for payment reform, say, and reimbursement 

reform, and the bundling, and medical home concepts that we are 

talking about here, the Accountable Care Organizations, et cetera. 

Others say, well, no, we will just bolt on a new division of CMS. 

But there is very, very deep concern whether, in fact, despite the 

good intentions, CMS is really up to it. So comment a little further 

on what you think—we have the vision in the legislation we are 

proposing. The vision is clearly there. The next question is, is the 

agency there? 

Let me ask the same question a little bit differently. Presidents 

come and go. Members of the Senate come and go—maybe a little 

less so. [Laughter.] 

Senator GRASSLEY. Or change parties. 

The CHAIRMAN. God willing. God willing. [Laughter.] 

But the bureaucracy is always there, and they know it. They can 

hunker down. They can weather the storm. ‘‘This, too, shall pass.’’ 

That is the attitude in a lot of the bureaucracy in the country. Not 

just HHS, but it is all agencies. It takes a super-human special effort to really create a contagious booster. The thought I had was, 

maybe the President can do it. Maybe the President himself could 

personally go to HHS. Maybe the President himself, personally, 

could go to CMS and just spend some time there. His positive, upbeat attitude is very contagious, as is his sense of hope and promise. There is a terrific opportunity here. I just urge you to try to 

think of ways that are unconventional to boost morale. 

Mr. CORR. Senator, if I may say, it begins also with leadership. 

I think that Secretary Sebelius intends to bring in outstanding 

leaders to the department, to CMS. There is a great deal of leadership being provided by people all around the country. You have had 

many of them testify before the committee during your roundtable 

discussions. 

12 

So, Secretary Sebelius certainly intends to bring in outstanding 

leadership to provide vision for those people and to move the bureaucracy in a way that it takes full advantage of the expertise 

that does exist at the career level that needs to be unleashed and 

directed in ways that are imaginative and productive for the American people. I hope, within several months, when you make that assessment again, that you will be able to say different things about 

the directions that CMS is moving in. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. 

Senator Grassley? 

Senator GRASSLEY. Yes. Following up on what he said, and let 

me say it this way: when you are in the position you are going to 

be in, you can make things change, because with a bureaucracy you 

are either going to lead or you are going to be led. Do not let them 

lead you! 

The culture of bureaucracy, Republican or Democrat, remains the 

same. You have to have somebody change the culture. You three 

people, at least in your areas, you are the type of people who can 

do it. I would encourage you to do it. 

I want to ask Mr. Corr, I am not going to go into the background 

of the False Claims Act. I think you know all about that, and so 

my questions are about that. 

Let me ask four questions right in a row, because I think they 

are simple enough. I want to get on to some trade stuff. 

Will you work cooperatively with the Attorney General and the 

Department of Justice to vigorously enforce the False Claims Act? 

Two, will you oppose efforts by industry groups, including the 

health care industry, to weaken the False Claims Act and the qui 

tam provisions that are a part of it? 

Three, would you agree to promote a close working relationship 

between qui tam relators—this is kind of sometimes a whistleblower in things we talk about—and the Department of Health and 

Human Services for the purposes of reducing fraud, waste, and 

abuse in Federal health care programs? 

Lastly—well, let us answer those three questions because the 

last one might—— 

Mr. CORR. The answer is ‘‘yes’’ to all of them, Senator. 

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you very much. 

This is about something you probably cannot answer right now 

until you read the bill, but would you work cooperatively with me 

to ensure that a bill I introduced earlier this year to restore the 

original intent of the False Claims Act is reviewed and commented 

on by the department in a timely manner? 

Mr. CORR. Absolutely. 

Senator GRASSLEY. And with constructive input? 

Mr. CORR. Absolutely. 

Senator GRASSLEY. All right. 

Mr. Marantis, thank you for what you have done for us for a long 

period of time in your close working relationship with Republican 

staff members, or maybe Finance Committee staff members, because there is not a whole lot of difference between Republican and 

Democrat staff members when it comes to the issue of cooperation. 

It might be a little bit different in philosophy, but a commitment 

13 

to get to the end. You have helped that along. Thank you very 

much. 

We have had a drop of the Gross Domestic Product by 6.1 percent reported yesterday, led by a 30-percent decline in U.S. exports. 

So I guess I am kind of pleading with us as we are in a recession 

here, and you are part of an administration that is fighting to get 

this recession over, one disappointment I would have is that I have 

not seen, with the importance of trade in creating jobs in America, 

more action to utilize trade to sustain and expand the number of 

good-paying jobs we have in America. I have seen movement on 

Panama, but not quite enough movement yet on Colombia and 

Korea. So, that is one point I want to make before you comment. 

Second, you have made quite a commitment to engaging this 

committee on a bipartisan basis to advance a positive trade agenda. 

We have heard a similar commitment from Ambassador Kirk when 

he was before the committee. But that commitment has to translate into action. You are in a position to make that translate into 

action. 

So, since the President has offered to move ahead on the Panama 

treaty, and I understand that they are consulting closely with at 

least one Democratic member of Congress on steps to be taken, but 

so far I have not heard that Ambassador Kirk is communicating 

with Republicans. I know that maybe we can be taken for granted, 

but I hope we will not be taken for granted, because we get the 

same pressures of protectionism that everybody else gets. It is 

going to take a bipartisan effort to get this done. 

Then, third, I appreciate your commitment to enforcing trade 

agreements. I think that is very important. Just yesterday I had 

representatives from an Iowa company visiting my office to discuss 

a case they filed under section 337 of the trade laws. Apparently 

a Chinese company has stolen its trade secrets and is trying to sell 

products in the United States based on those secrets. So we need 

vigilant enforcement of these trade laws. We cannot hesitate to 

take action with the WTO for a level playing field. 

So my first question is, do you agree with what I have said about 

enforcing trade laws? 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, thank you. Absolutely. Ambassador 

Kirk—one of his key priorities will be vigorous enforcement of U.S. 

trade laws, because we need to have confidence in the United 

States, if we are going to conclude trade agreements, that we are 

going to enforce them vigorously. 

Senator GRASSLEY. Yes. Then the last question is, some ideas 

from you as you are going into this new job. I do not expect you 

to know exactly everything about it at this point, but how can we 

encourage our trading partners, including China, to live up to the 

commitments they have made? That probably falls in other departments other than just yours, but from your perspective. 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, USTR has a lot of tools in its tool chest 

to address enforcement. It has U.S. law, it has enforcement actions 

in the World Trade Organization, and it has a number of bilateral 

engagements with countries like China. USTR needs to act on all 

fronts to accomplish whatever enforcement problem we find around 

the world. I can commit to you, Senator, that, if I am confirmed, 

that will be one of my highest priorities. 

14 

Senator GRASSLEY. Could I beg for one more minute? 

The CHAIRMAN. Absolutely. But you do not have to beg. 

Senator GRASSLEY. All right. Would you indulge me to have one? 

And this is for Mr. Corr. Another, I think, simple question, but I 

need to kind of get people on record so that we know where you 

stand. I have already talked about my view of oversight, so I do 

not need to repeat a long paragraph about that. But I intend to 

continue that with the same even hand in a Democratic administration as I think I have done in several Republican administrations. 

To do that, I would like a commitment, if you are confirmed, that 

you would do something to eliminate a lot of red tape I have to go 

through here, and that is whether or not a ranking member can 

have access to information without having the chairman participate in that. 

Now, this goes back to the Reagan administration, 1986, 1987. 

Some Assistant Attorney General someplace made a ruling that a 

ranking member did not have the same right to information as a 

chairman had, see. Chairman Baucus has always cooperated with 

me. I do not know once he has not, and I hope I cooperated with 

him when I was chairman. But I would like to have you think 

about answering my letters without my having to run to Chairman 

Baucus all the time to get your attention. 

Mr. CORR. Senator Grassley, I know this is an issue that you 

care deeply about, and that you mentioned in your opening remarks. I just wanted to say that, because of my experience working 

for congressional committees, I am very respectful of the need of 

congressional committees to do oversight on the Department, and 

I know that oversight improves the Department and its programs. 

I certainly look forward to cooperating with you in your requests 

and to being as responsive as we possibly can. 

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Senator Conrad? 

Senator CONRAD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thanks to all three of you for being willing to serve in the public 

sector. I think this is really a distinguished group of nominees, and 

I am delighted about the quality of the people that I see being put 

forward by this President. 

Bill, let me start with you. I have a special responsibility to my 

colleagues with respect to the budget. As I look at health care reform, the thing that concerns me a great deal is that we are already spending almost 18 percent of our Gross Domestic Product 

on health care. The trend line that we are on would take us to 37 

percent of GDP for health care, and clearly that is totally 

unsustainable. 

We are already spending twice as much as a share of our economy as anyone else. One of the fears I have—and I have expressed 

it to the chairman—is that in health care reform it is entirely possible that we put in a boatload of additional money and do not bend 

the cost curve, do not reduce costs for the longer term. 

What can you tell me that would give me an assurance that we 

are going to avoid that fate? To me that would be the worst posVerDate Nov 24 2008 16:12 Mar 14, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\64547.000 TIMD
15 

sible outcome, to go through health care reform and just put in 

more money, take it to a higher level of our GDP going for health 

care, and put us in a totally unsustainable position. 

Mr. CORR. Senator, I suspect possibly at this stage the only thing 

that I could say is that my sense is that the administration and 

all members of Congress share the concern that you raise. One of 

the main reasons for doing health reform is to bring down longterm health care costs to the Nation, to make the economy more 

competitive. To the extent that everyone is focused on that and intent on producing that result, we have the best chance we are 

going to have. 

I think with the level of expertise around the country and in the 

Congress that is being brought to bear in thinking about these 

issues, I suspect over the next 3 to 4 months that this will be thoroughly debated and evaluated with the intention that the reforms 

that are put in place will have a long-term effect of reducing overall health care costs below the cost projections that we are now on. 

Senator CONRAD. Well, I appreciate that. I feel so strongly about 

this, that it has to be central to what we do, because our country 

is in a situation in which unbelievable pressure is being put on our 

competitive position, on our families, on our companies. When we 

are spending twice as much as anybody else and we are nowhere 

near the top in health care outcomes, something is radically wrong. 

I look at the Mayo model and I compare it to UCLA. The Mayo 

model, they are getting the best health care outcomes and at a cost 

one-half as much as the UCLA model. I mean, Dartmouth tells us 

we are wasting 30 percent of our expenditure on health care and 

are not getting any improvement in health care outcomes for that 

expenditure. That is $700 billion a year. Even in Washington, that 

is real money. 

Demetrios, just very quickly, increasingly we are seeing countries 

manipulate their currencies for the purpose of gaining trade advantage. I have raised this issue repeatedly in the Finance Committee 

as we consider trade agreements. Traditionally, people tell me, 

well, there is nothing we can do about considering currencies. We 

have seen circumstances in which we negotiate an agreement, reduce tariff barriers, and then have the country devalue their currency, completely swamping the effect of the reduction in the tariff 

levels. 

What would be your attitude with respect to considering currency 

valuations in trade agreements? 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, I still have scars on my back from when 

this committee considered currency legislation in 2007. The greatest thing that I could say to you right now is that the Treasury Department has the lead on all issues with respect to currency policy, 

so you should ask my colleague sitting here. [Laughter.] 

In all seriousness, though, Senator Conrad, it is an important 

issue. Regardless of whether it is China or any other country, when 

we look at our trade and economic relationship with that country 

and what barriers our exporters face, we need to look at the whole 

panoply of issues. Currency is certainly one of them, particularly 

when we look at our relationship with China. 

Senator CONRAD. Let me just tell you, in my staff memo to me 

about you, this is what they said: ‘‘He is very smart, thoughtful, 

16 

and well-versed in the range of trade issues he will cover at 

USTR.’’ Demetrios, I mean, how can he beat that? [Laughter.] 

Mr. MARANTIS. Thank you, Senator Conrad. 

Senator CONRAD. Do I have time remaining? 

The CHAIRMAN. Absolutely. 

Senator CONRAD. Mr. Krueger, you are being asked to take on an 

extraordinarily critical position at this time. As I look at our economic circumstance, I believe one reason we got into this soup is 

we had an overly loose fiscal policy, massive deficits and debt, overly loose monetary policy under the control of the Fed, a dysfunctional trade policy, and an overlay of deregulation on top of it all 

that created the seed bed for bubbles to form. The result is, we got 

a housing bubble. We got much more than that. We got a commodity bubble. Wheat went to $18 a bushel. We got an energy bubble. Oil is $145 a bushel. 

The CHAIRMAN. A barrel. 

Senator CONRAD. One hundred and forty-five dollars a barrel. 

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. You have to remember, he is from a wheat State. 

Senator CONRAD. Yes. We think of everything in bushel terms in 

my State. [Laughter.] 

The chairman’s State is not too far behind. 

What is your sense of what caused this, almost a global collapse? 

Mr. KRUEGER. Thank you for the question. I think economists 

will be asking that for years to come. My view is that there were 

multiple factors that caused the recession, the deep recession that 

we are in and the financial crisis that we are in. 

I think that when we look back at this we cannot say it was just 

one factor. The economy has checks and balances, and there were 

multiple failures in those checks and balances. One factor I would 

emphasize is the housing market. There were many bubbles, as you 

mentioned. The first one to burst in a major way was the housing 

bubble, and that is also an enormously important market in the 

U.S. and around the world. 

From there, there was collateral damage into other markets. 

There are many reasons why I think we can look at the housing 

market and ask, what enabled this nationwide bubble to occur? 

You pointed to many of them. One of the areas where the administration is looking very closely, as well as the Congress, is financial 

regulatory reform so that we can try to avoid having these types 

of problems going forward. But as I said, I do not think one gets 

into this type of a situation from just one cause. There are multiple 

areas where the economy failed. 

The CHAIRMAN. I am going to have to—— 

Senator CONRAD. Yes. I appreciate it. 

The CHAIRMAN. Good. Thank you. 

Senator Enzi? 

Senator ENZI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to thank all of you for being willing to serve. You have 

very impressive resumes. I think that it will be a real advantage 

to the United States to have you in the positions you have been 

nominated for. 

17 

I want to ask some questions that are a bit western-oriented. I 

noticed that all the Senators who are here are western. I will start 

with Mr. Marantis. 

One of the concerns that the United States has is over soda ash, 

which is used in baking soda, making glass, and a whole bunch of 

other things. The United States has a great deal of this that is 

completely natural. China, however, makes a synthetic one. In 

order to protect their market, they put a 9-percent value-added tax 

on it. Then they took that off for a while because they recognized 

that they were using a lot of energy and creating a lot of pollution 

making their product. Now they have decided to add it back in 

again. 

Is there anything that you can do along those lines in your position? 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, one of the first letters I worked on on 

the Finance Committee was a soda ash letter on this very issue 

with Senator Thomas. It has been an issue. It has been an ongoing 

issue. I can assure you, Senator, that if I am confirmed it is something that I will raise at the earliest opportunity with the Chinese 

Government. 

Senator ENZI. Thank you. I hope that you can coordinate a little 

bit the Department of Energy and the EPA, too, on helping China 

realize the mistake they are making by going back into that production. 

Another question that Senator Thomas would have asked you 

has to do with the free trade agreement that we are looking at with 

South Korea. I want to know what you would be willing to do to 

ensure that the market share of U.S. beef products was protected. 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, this is another issue that I have worked 

very closely on in my time in the Senate. The U.S.-Korea Free 

Trade Agreement offers enormous potential benefits to the U.S. 

economy. There are some key concerns that we still have to address, including on beef, as well as on autos. 

On beef, Senator, it is very important that this government is 

very vigilant with respect to sanitary and phytosanitary barriers 

that are not based on science. Having worked on this issue for a 

number of years, I can assure you that at USTR, if I am confirmed, 

this will be a major priority of mine. 

Senator ENZI. Thank you. 

Mr. Corr, as you know, I am an opponent of tobacco. I know you 

have worked in that area as well. Consequently, it is my understanding—it has been reported anyway—that you are not going to 

get a waiver to handle any tobacco issues. If that is true, and you 

recuse yourself, who will be handling that in your place? 

Mr. CORR. Senator, under the administration’s ethics guidelines 

I will be recused from tobacco issues, if I am confirmed as Deputy 

Secretary. But the Secretary spoke to the committee about this 

matter. I know that she will take a direct interest in how—if the 

Congress were to pass legislation, or short of that, in the programs 

that now exist within HHS, she will take a direct interest. 

The 10 agencies that make up the department also have very 

strong leadership, so, to the extent that we are working on programs at the Centers for Disease Control, then certainly the director would be responsible. To the extent that there are new responVerDate Nov 24 2008 16:12 Mar 14, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\64547.000 TIMD
18 

sibilities for the Food and Drug Administration, then certainly the 

commissioner would take on that responsibility. 

But the department is large, and the Assistant Secretary for 

Health is a critical leader within the department, as is the Surgeon 

General. So I think there are a number of people who will certainly 

carry forward the banner that you have carried for so many years, 

trying to discourage tobacco use. It is the number-one cause of preventable death. If we could make progress in preventing tobacco 

use we could certainly contribute greatly towards Senator Conrad’s 

concern about bending the health care cost curve a decade from 

now. 

Senator ENZI. Absolutely. Of course, as you know, I am a little 

disappointed that health care wound up in reconciliation. I think 

that it has caused some rifts there that did not need to happen, because I think everybody so far is working on making sure that the 

reform happens. I want to congratulate the chairman on yesterday’s walk-through on the different alternatives that were presented for solving a portion of the problem—probably the easiest 

one, and it took us 5 hours to get through. 

Something that I was at a hearing on yesterday as well was the 

H1N1, which we are not referring to as swine flu because we do 

not want to decrease the sale of pork. That is important, and it has 

nothing to do with eating pork. But on the H1N1, there are different case counts coming out from different parts of government 

and from international authorities. Is there any way that we can 

ensure better coordination during this and other public health 

emergencies? 

Mr. CORR. Senator, in terms of this one, the administration is endeavoring to have one set of numbers released each day. The Centers for Disease Control Acting Director Dr. Richard Besser, in his 

morning press conferences—he is having one every day between 11 

and 1—at that point we are trying to release the latest numbers, 

both domestically and internationally, as well as other information. 

We are trying to stay with those numbers all day so that the 

American people get one very clear picture about what is happening with H1N1. Every afternoon around 3 o’clock, Secretary 

Sebelius and Secretary Napolitano are holding press conferences in 

which we can update information. 

The goal is, as you say, to have a consistent set of information 

that is available based on the best science, the best evidence that 

we have. Our experts within our government are working closely 

with experts from around the world and the World Health Organization. Everyone recognizes that it is critical that we speak with 

one voice and with one set of recommendations about what people 

need to do. 

Senator ENZI. Thank you. I apologize for running over. I had a 

question for Mr. Krueger as well. I will submit that in writing. I 

do not want him to feel neglected, and I appreciate what he is willing to do. 

[The question appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. You made an earlier statement about health care being in reconciliation. That is not necessarily going to be the case. In fact, it is my intention that we not 

use reconciliation as we take up health care reform. 

19 

Senator ENZI. I appreciate that. 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hatch? 

Senator HATCH. Well, I commend the chairman for that comment, because I think that it would be a catastrophic problem for 

everybody if this was made into a partisan exercise rather than a 

bipartisan one. 

I want to welcome the three of you here today, and I have a lot 

of respect for each of you, as I think you know. 

Mr. Corr, we have worked together a long time. I think very 

highly of you and of the people with whom you have worked. Now 

I find that this H1N1 flu breakout is disturbing, especially since a 

vaccine will not be available, they tell me, until October. Is there 

a role for Congress, perhaps through the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, to help speed up the development of this vaccine? 

Mr. CORR. In terms of this vaccine, Senator, I believe that the 

resources are in place. The President has, as you know, asked for 

some additional resources. The decision about whether to go to production on a vaccine has not been made yet. The work is being 

done now on the type of vaccine that would be produced. 

We certainly, though, have longer-term issues in terms of our advanced research and development for medical countermeasures. I 

know the administration is going to want to be talking with you 

and other members of the Congress about the resources that we 

need to ensure that in other emergencies, natural or otherwise, we 

are well prepared. 

Senator HATCH. Well, that is great. I have been informed there 

are 91 cases in this country. We may have one in Utah as of today, 

and it is a matter of great concern to all of us throughout the country. There are a lot of other questions I have on that, but just know 

that we will be working with you. 

We will have an opportunity to work together on a lot of very 

crucial issues, especially FDA issues. Not just FDA, but certainly 

that will be part of it. I look forward to working with you. I am 

expecting you to get your old boss, Henry Waxman, to get back into 

the partnership with his old partner Orrin, here. We will work 

with him and see what we can do on some of these very crucial 

issues. 

Mr. CORR. Senator Hatch, may I say thank you for your question 

about the resources for the vaccine development. As we move 

through this day-to-day, we will certainly let you know if there are 

issues. 

Senator HATCH. If you would. If you would, I would appreciate 

it. 

Mr. Marantis, thank you for your work on this committee. We 

look forward to working with you at USTR. As you know, I have 

been an outspoken advocate for international trade. Most recently, 

I expressed my concern over the so-called May 10th deal. I also 

have strong feelings about the vigorous and aggressive enforcement 

of our intellectual property rights throughout the world, and I am 

hopeful that you will really take that on as a very, very important 

part of what you are doing. 

I am also concerned about the message we are sending to our 

friends south of the border, especially Colombia, by not moving the 

20 

U.S.-Colombia Free Trade Agreement. Here we have a leader who 

has straightened a lot of things up down there, including the protection of labor union leaders, much more than anybody else has 

ever done, and we are playing around with that agreement like it 

is not important. I really believe that we need efficacy by good people like you on the Democrat side to get them to wake up. We can 

no longer play games with this type of thing in our hemisphere, 

with all of the problems we have. 

But to ask a question, can you please give me your thoughts on 

what more USTR can do to better protect American intellectual 

property? 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, thank you for that question. I have 

worked over the years with your staff on developing some thoughts 

on improving enforcement of IPR. It is a critical priority for Ambassador Kirk. President Obama, as well, in his trade policy report, 

underscored this commitment to vigorous protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights. That is going to be a key issue 

with all countries that I deal with in my portfolio, if I am confirmed. I look forward to working with you and members of this 

committee to figure out what better ways and what more we can 

do to protect and enforce U.S. IPR rights abroad. 

Senator HATCH. Well, I am also a firm believer that U.S. labor 

laws should be changed in the light of day. I believe that any effort 

to change our domestic labor laws through international trade 

agreements, those efforts are wrong. We ought to have the guts to 

stand up and do what has to be done right here in the Congress. 

I am especially referencing the May 10th trade deal. 

Can you provide us your assurance that you will do all you can 

while at USTR to ensure that there is no effort to change U.S. 

labor laws through our trade agreements? 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, the May 10th agreement—the most important aspect of the May 10th agreement was the fact that it was 

bipartisan. Any effort to make any changes to that will have to be 

done on a bipartisan basis in very close cooperation with you and 

members of this committee. 

Senator HATCH. Well, thank you. 

Mr. Krueger, I do not want to ignore you. I want to really give 

you a rough time if I can. [Laughter.] 

You have a great sense of humor. I have really enjoyed listening 

to you today. But when you were writing in the New York Times 

in March of 2006 about a cost versus benefit analysis of going to 

war in Iraq, you noted that ‘‘Credible estimation of counterfactual 

outcomes of alternative policies for cost-benefit comparison has 

been a hallmark of modern economics.’’ 

Now, do you believe that a ‘‘credible estimation of counterfactual 

outcomes of alternative policies for cost-benefit comparison’’ should 

also apply to the economic agenda, including the President’s stimulus bill, TARP, and the budget? Go ahead. You can answer that. 

Mr. KRUEGER. Thanks for the question, Senator. I do believe that 

economic analysis can help guide decisions, being an input for decisions. Of course, economics is only one factor. A hallmark of modern economics is to try to understand the impact of policies by raising the question, what would have happened in the absence of 

21 

those policies? It is an extremely different counterfactual situation 

to answer. 

One of the points I was trying to make in that piece in the New 

York Times article that you cited was that this is the way—that 

economic analysis approach is an issue like the cost of war. It is 

only one input. There are tremendous challenges. One should not 

base decisions just based on this particular input, and we should 

be aware of the limitations. 

I think, on the financial stability plan, that the financial system 

was facing tremendous crisis, and that the financial stability plan 

has been working to stabilize the financial system. It is an extremely difficult and challenging question to know what would 

have happened in the absence of the actions that you cited. Nonetheless, I think asking those questions helps to guide, in some respects, decisions. 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Wyden? 

Senator WYDEN. Thank you. 

Senator HATCH. Mr. Chairman, if I could just say, I want to congratulate and thank each of you for being willing to serve, and I 

intend to support each of you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Wyden? 

Senator WYDEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I think we have three very fine nominees here, and I look forward to supporting them. I just wanted to come down for a few 

minutes. One of the virtues of really enjoying working with Chairman Baucus is he often gives you tough assignments. 

The CHAIRMAN. Now is your chance. 

Senator WYDEN. As the new chair of the Trade Subcommittee, I 

had a couple of questions for Mr. Marantis, whom we have all respected in his work up here. A couple of points for Bill Corr, an 

old, old friend from the days when I served in the House. 

Let me start with you, Mr. Marantis, with respect to international trade. I think it is well understood that there are some 

very important trade agreements coming up. I am one who has consistently voted for market-expanding agreements. I voted for the 

Central American Free Trade Agreement most recently. It is very 

obvious that there is great opposition to a lot of these trade agreements among working-class people. There is just no doubt about it. 

One of the interests I have is finding new policies that would expand the winner’s circle under international trade, to show 

middle-class families that they are going to do more to help them 

get ahead. This is an area the chairman and I have worked together on over the years, almost with the idea of there being something like a trade bonus for working people. 

I am not even sure you need legislation. This is something companies can do even without legislation. For example, when there is 

a trade agreement that is passed and there are tariff reductions, 

some of those funds could be shared with workers, even without 

any legislation. So start by telling me a little bit about your thinking with respect to ideas for expanding the winner’s circle so that 

more middle-class workers and their families see the benefit of 

these trade agreements. 

22 

Mr. MARANTIS. Thanks, Senator Wyden. The United States concludes great trade agreements. They are high standard, they open 

markets, and they provide new export opportunities. We do not do 

a very good job at explaining how we should take advantage of 

those trade agreements. 

I spent the past 41⁄2 years working with small- and medium-sized 

businesses in Montana, trying to help them identify export opportunities, how to take advantage of the trade agreements that the 

United States concludes. We need to do a lot more of that. We need 

to work closely with small- and medium-sized businesses to help 

them, to pair them up with the resources that the Department of 

Commerce and other agencies have, to actually export their products. 

What I have learned in my time working with small- and 

medium-sized businesses in Montana is that there is so much interest out there to export, but there is not a lot of information on 

actually how to do that well. One of the things that I really would 

like to do, if I am confirmed at USTR, is to try to help figure out 

how to help small- and medium-sized businesses take better advantage of the very high-quality trade agreements that the United 

States negotiates. 

On the trade bonus, Senator, I know that this is an issue that 

you have raised before. I have heard anecdotally that companies 

are beginning to experiment with trade bonuses. I do not know 

what experience they have had, but I would actually be curious to 

learn what they have done and how it has been received by their 

workers. 

Senator WYDEN. I appreciate both of those points, there is no 

question. The chairman and I have talked about this, that we need 

to do a better job of explaining, in a global economy, what trade 

means. I do hope that we will look at some additional steps, some 

practical, additional steps. I am not wedded even to whether there 

needs to be legislation. After the Central American Free Trade 

Agreement, I suggested to companies, why don’t you just do it voluntarily? You are going to get a tariff reduction. Share it with your 

workers. 

Workers have been skeptical about the agreement. They see an 

agreement passed in June. A few months later the company, in effect, says we all have an opportunity to get ahead as a result of 

a trade agreement, and here is going to be a few hundred additional dollars that are going to be part of what you see as getting 

ahead in an agreement, sharing the winnings. So, if you would, 

continue to pursue that and look at the experiments. I think you 

are right, some companies are interested in that. 

One question for you, Mr. Corr, and it tracks something I know 

you have great interest in, and that is health care prevention. The 

department runs a number of very important preventive services. 

The new Secretary has a great interest in this as well. One of the 

concerns we are going to have in health reform is that much of the 

good preventive work does not even get scored as a saving. 

One of the big challenges we saw yesterday, for example, in our 

closed session, is we have to show that we are making some savings in order to have some credibility with the American people to 

23 

talk about the start-up costs that are inevitable in any new kind 

of effort. 

For example, I have been interested in a number of prevention 

efforts. I would like to have seniors who lower their blood pressure 

and lower their cholesterol get reduced Part B premiums. If you 

send that kind of message, people who are far from their senior 

years are going to start thinking about ways to be healthier and 

think about some of the preventive benefits. 

What is your thinking about how the department can do more in 

the area of health care prevention, and particularly get to Chairman Baucus and all of us some preventive approaches that can be 

scored as actually generating savings? 

Mr. CORR. Senator Wyden, that certainly is the goal of the people 

in the department now who are working on health reform. It is a 

challenge because we have developed actually a relatively good evidence base over the last decade or two that demonstrates that prevention makes a big difference, that it actually, for individuals, reduces health care that they need. We have a problem. Even in the 

field of tobacco, we have a problem within the 10-year window that 

CBO scores of showing significant savings. 

What I could tell you today is that people in the department certainly understand—Secretary Sebelius certainly understands—this 

issue, and we are going to do everything we can to bring the best 

minds in the country together not only with the goal of trying to 

demonstrate savings, but also making sure that we are taking full 

advantage of every opportunity to prevent disease rather than treat 

it. If we are going to reduce the long-term cost curves below current projections, we are going to have to do a better job of preventing disease. 

Senator WYDEN. My time is up. Mr. Krueger, I am going to spare 

you with questions, but I am going to support you. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you. 

Mr. KRUEGER. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

I will just finish up with this last subject, Mr. Corr. I think the 

health care reform that we all want to pass is in danger, is in jeopardy, if we cannot document meaningful, significant reductions in 

costs. We all talk about bending the cost curve. I spent a lot of time 

with Peter Orszag at OMB, a lot of time with Doug Elmendorf at 

CBO. We all have to work together to find ways to honestly get the 

scores that we must have if we are going to get health care reform 

passed. With the huge deficits this country is facing, there are 

many who believe that this is not the time to pass health care reform. It is just too costly. 

Now, clearly we both know that the cost of inaction is much 

greater than the cost of action, but that is a somewhat difficult argument to make when people see health care costs perhaps going 

up, especially when coverage is going to be increased. I just want 

to underline the points that many Senators here have said, namely, 

we really need you to join the team at HHS, OMB, CBO, all of us, 

to really find ways to show honestly if reforms we are undertaking 

will in fact result in lower costs; otherwise, health care reform is 

in jeopardy. 

24 

Mr. CORR. Senator, I certainly look forward to that opportunity, 

if I am confirmed, and will do everything in my power to do so. I 

know that others in the administration share the concern and the 

viewpoint, and we will be doing everything we can. 

The CHAIRMAN. Good. Thank you. I know you will. I just want 

to make it clear. 

Mr. CORR. I will carry the message. 

The CHAIRMAN. As I see it, that is a concern we all have to work 

on. 

Mr. CORR. Absolutely. 

The CHAIRMAN. All right. 

Mr. Marantis, Panama. I believe that the administration must 

develop an action plan on the Panama FTA that passes this Congress, otherwise there is very deep concern whether this administration really does have a trade policy, whether it cares about 

trade. Clearly, we have to worry about the bearer shares issue. I 

think that is pretty well resolved. 

But the tax information and exchange agreement issues, I 

guess—I do not know if Treasury is handling that more than 

USTR, I am not sure, but that too has to be resolved, as well as 

some of the labor issues that some have raised. I frankly think 

some of those issues that have been raised by others, while they 

are important, should not get in the way of passing the Panama 

FTA. 

So, if you could just give us a little assurance that the administration is going to develop an action plan on the Panama FTA so 

we can get that passed, I would surely appreciate that. 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, I believe that, as we speak, USTR is 

working with Panama to address the outstanding concerns that you 

laid out and hopes to work with Congress soon to try to figure out 

what the most appropriate timing is to bring that agreement before 

you. 

The CHAIRMAN. I know you know it, but I just want to restate 

how important that is. I was down with the President at the Summit of the Americas down in Trinidad and spoke to President 

Torrijos of Panama, and frankly, spoke with our President, too, 

about it. I know it is on his list. I know he wants to get the Panama FTA passed this year. But we just cannot delay. We have to 

move very quickly. I am just urging you to send the message back 

that, hey, we have to get moving on this thing because that would 

make a big, big difference and send, I think, a very positive signal 

to South America and Central America, but also to the world, that, 

hey, we are open for business. We Americans really do care about 

trade. This is a no-brainer, this one. We should get this done. 

Mr. MARANTIS. Thank you, Senator. Message received. I will definitely convey that back to USTR. 

The CHAIRMAN. Good. 

China. I have a view that, how we as Americans manage the relationship with China going forward in the next 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 

years could very well determine the future of American citizens, 

Chinese citizens, and perhaps even other peoples in the world. But 

China is growing so quickly, so rapidly, it is going to be such a 

dominant player on down the road. 

25 

I am concerned, frankly, that all administrations tend to look too 

much eastward across the Atlantic rather than across the Pacific 

to China and Asia more broadly. That is because of our heritage. 

Many of us have European roots. The major networks are on the 

east coast, newspapers are on the east coast. I have sometimes 

thought that, if Washington, DC was on the west coast, not the 

east coast, that we would have a little bit different view of the 

world, because proximity is power. 

I would like you to give me your thoughts about the degree to 

which we develop an Asian policy and a China policy, and what 

some of those components might be. 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, active engagement with the Asia-Pacific 

region is absolutely critical for our economic future, given that region’s significance economically both today and tomorrow. That region is integrating every day, and we need to be able to position 

our exporters and our companies—and our country, for that matter—to be able to take advantage of the competitive advantages 

that the Asia-Pacific region presents. 

There are so many opportunities out there for us, and so much 

of the past 41⁄2 years working with you and traveling to Asia with 

you and seeing firsthand what is happening in that region and having lived there myself for 2 years, have shown me it is a priority 

area. It is a priority for Ambassador Kirk, it is a priority for me. 

I look forward to working with this committee and getting your advice on, what is the best approach? What should we do to be most 

effective and to position ourselves most effectively in the region? 

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate that. I just think it is critical for our 

kids’ and our grandkids’ futures that we get this relationship right. 

There are so many different dimensions. Clearly trade is one of 

them, but there are many, many others. But I again urge you very 

strongly to think strategically, think ahead. Where do you want to 

be with respect to China 5 years from now, 10 years from now, 15 

years from now, instead of just some ad hoc reactions on a sometimes even daily basis? 

Mr. MARANTIS. Senator, you have often said that 90 percent of 

life is showing up, and we have not shown up enough in Asia. This 

country has not shown up enough in Asia. That is one aspect of 

this job that I am most excited about—helping to think about how 

to best position American trade policy in that region. 

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate that very, very much. I just, again, 

believe it is that critical. 

Mr. Krueger, some of us on this committee, and Senator Enzi 

somewhat alluded to it—policymakers in Washington, DC sometimes think about the east coast, they think of the west coast, 

maybe a couple of States in between, industrial States, but tend to 

forget the northern high Plains States in developing policy. 

Mr. Corr, you mentioned, if I remember correctly, something 

about rural work. But I just want to remind everybody, there is 

rural, and there is rural. A long time ago, who was it? Doc Bowen 

was HHS Secretary. In this very room, he prided himself in being 

a rural doctor from Indiana. I reminded him that, well, rural in Indiana is not rural in some other States in this country. In fact, I 

did a rough calculation. Indiana is 22 times more urban than is the 

State of Montana. 

26 

I am reminded when Hilary Clinton, when she was First Lady, 

discussing her health care reform agenda, came to Montana. She 

got off the airplane in Billings, MT, which happens to be our largest city. She got off the plane and right away she said, this is not 

rural, this is hyper-rural. This is mega-rural. I mean, it just blew 

her away how rural that part of the country is. For example, New 

Jersey’s population density is about 1,000 per square mile; in my 

State of Montana, it is about 6. So, Mr. Krueger, I just wonder if 

you could tell us how much experience you have in living in, or visiting, getting a sense of, rural—really rural—America. 

Mr. KRUEGER. Thank you for the question. I have traveled all 

over the U.S. Also, I have gone further west to China. I understand 

there are differences, economic differences—significant economic 

differences—across regions of the country, differences in the way 

the housing crisis is affecting different parts of the country. I certainly appreciate that economic policy needs to be sensitive to those 

considerations. Should I be confirmed, I would very much look forward to learning more about the issues facing rural America and 

working with you and the committee on those issues. 

The CHAIRMAN. Have you been to Montana? 

Mr. KRUEGER. I have very much wanted to go to Montana. 

[Laughter.] And I very much hope to have the opportunity to visit 

Montana, but I have not been to Montana. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is a great answer. The more you want to 

go to Montana, the better. [Laughter.] You will love it. I mean, it 

is just—we are very proud of Montana. 

Mr. KRUEGER. I could tell you, my former dean has a house in 

Montana. I tried very hard to get him to invite me to visit him. 

The CHAIRMAN. And who is that? 

Mr. KRUEGER. Henry Bienen, who is now president of Northwestern. 

The CHAIRMAN. A lot of people from the east do have places in 

Montana. [Laughter.] 

Mr. KRUEGER. I place Northwestern in the midwest. 

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Right. That is really interesting. Apologies 

to all of our friends from Texas. We Montanans like to think we 

are prouder of Montana than Texans are of Texas, only we are not 

so loud about it. [Laughter.] 

Which I think somewhat captures just the pride we have in our 

State. You will have a great time there. 

Mr. KRUEGER. I will follow up. 

The CHAIRMAN. All right. 

In your new job, there are an infinite number of tasks you can 

undertake. What is your number-one priority, or second and third 

priority as you organize your life in this new world? 

Mr. KRUEGER. That is an excellent question. I do not come here 

with a particular agenda. What I have told people, told your staff, 

is my number-one item on my agenda is to see the economy improve. I am willing to look at lots of different ways of doing that, 

entertain many different options. I think at the moment, stabilizing 

the financial markets is absolutely critical for seeing improvement 

in the economy. The stimulus bill that the Congress passed is going 

to help increase aggregate demand. But to me the only item on my 

agenda at the moment is helping, should I be confirmed, the adVerDate Nov 24 2008 16:12 Mar 14, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00030 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\64547.000 TIMD
27 

ministration to evaluate policies to see the greatest improvement 

in the economy, to see the economy working again for the American 

people. 

The CHAIRMAN. Including? 

Mr. KRUEGER. Including all parts of the United States, including 

Montana. 

The CHAIRMAN. Good answer. [Laughter.] 

As you do all that, I just, again, urge you to get out there and 

see all parts of the country. 

What is the most unconventional position you have taken that 

you have been most proud of? 

Mr. KRUEGER. I think it is probably the work I did on the minimum wage. I do not know if pride is the—and I should be clear, 

that some of my work has challenged the conventionally accepted 

views on economics. 

The CHAIRMAN. Right. 

Mr. KRUEGER. I did not start out intending to challenge the 

views in any of that work. I approached working on minimum wage 

and other issues as a scientific issue. We received a lot of criticism 

for the work. I take this criticism very seriously. I am kind of 

proud, I suppose, that I think the work has held up to the criticism. But there are many areas where I am proud of the research 

I did. 

The CHAIRMAN. All right. What is one of the most unconventional 

positions you have taken that you are least proud of, where you 

really blew it? 

Mr. KRUEGER. I really blew it? I can tell you the one that gets 

me into a lot of trouble. I did a study on the benefit of going to 

highly selective colleges, and there have been some previous studies which looked at the benefit of attending an elite school like 

Princeton, versus a less highly selective school. One of the difficulties is, it is hard to compare apples to apples. The students who 

apply to the more selective schools tend to have higher grades coming from high school. They might achieve more anyway. 

What I did was try to match up students, together with a coauthor. What we did was to try to match up students who had the 

same set of options, they were accepted at the same set of schools. 

Within that set, it did not seem to matter very much where they 

went to school. Even more importantly, what we found was what 

seemed to matter most was the schools that they applied to, whether they got in there or not. 

So what I concluded from that work is, what the students bring 

to their higher education, the ambition and motivation they have, 

is extremely important. It is also important what the school puts 

in, but just being a selective institution is not sufficient. The school 

has to put resources into the student’s education. 

Now, you can imagine that, at Princeton University, this was not 

necessarily the finding that the university was expecting. Princeton 

is such a wonderful institution, they put a link to my study on the 

home page for the university, so they did not try to conceal it. But 

it is certainly a result that has raised a number of eyebrows. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I must say that Princetonians are certainly 

proud of Princeton. When I was in law school, I lived off-campus 

with two fellows from Princeton. You will not believe all the PrinceVerDate Nov 24 2008 16:12 Mar 14, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\64547.000 TIMD
28 

ton banners in that house and everywhere. Everything was Princeton, everywhere. I was at Stanford. 

Mr. KRUEGER. I should have mentioned earlier that my family 

and I did live a year visiting Stanford. We lived in Woodside. 

The CHAIRMAN. Woodside. Is that why your daughter is interested in going to Stanford? 

Mr. KRUEGER. That is partly it. 

The CHAIRMAN. I might say to your daughter, it is interesting, 

although this may or may not be helpful——[Laughter.] 

Your father is certainly proud of Princeton. Fifty percent of the 

Senators at this hearing today are from Stanford, and they are all 

on this side of the aisle. [Laughter.] 

Well, thank you all very, very much. I wish you great luck. Before I adjourn, I might tell Senators, all Senators who may have 

additional questions, I would ask them to submit their questions 

before 5 this afternoon, and I ask all of you to respond very quickly 

so we can get you all confirmed. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:38 a.m., the hearing was concluded.] 

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