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44–332 PDF 2008

S. HRG. 110–518 

S.J. RES. 45, A RESOLUTION CONSENTING TO 

AND APPROVING THE GREAT LAKES-ST. LAWRENCE RIVER BASIN WATER RESOURCES COMPACT 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

JULY, 30, 2008 

Serial No. J–110–114 

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 

( 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman 

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware 

HERB KOHL, Wisconsin 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JON KYL, Arizona 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

BRUCE A. COHEN, Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

STEPHANIE A. MIDDLETON, Republican Staff Director 

NICHOLAS A. ROSSI, Republican Chief Counsel 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Page 

Durbin, Hon. Richard J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Illinois, prepared 

statement .............................................................................................................. 39 

Feingold, Hon. Russell D., a U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin ............. 1 

prepared statement .......................................................................................... 42 

Kohl, Hon. Herb, a U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin ............................ 3 

Schumer, Hon. Charles E., a U.S. Senator from the State of New York, 

prepared statement .............................................................................................. 100 

Specter, Hon. Arlen Specter, a U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania ... 2 

WITNESSES 

Davis, Cameron, President, Alliance for the Great Lakes, Chicago, Illinois ...... 12 

Doyle, Hon. Jim, Governor, State of Wisconsin, and Chair, Council of Great 

Lakes Governors, Madison, Wisconsin ............................................................... 6 

Heartwell, George, Mayor, City of Grand Rapids, and Vice Chairman, Great 

Lakes-St. Lawrence, Cities Initiative Grand Rapids, Michigan ....................... 8 

Nelson, Kay L., Director of Environmental Affairs, Northwest Indiana Forum, 

Portage, Indiana ................................................................................................... 10 

Voinovich, Hon. George, a U.S. Senator from the State of Ohio ......................... 4 

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Birkholz, Hon. Patricia, Michigan State Senator, Lansing, Michigan, statement ...................................................................................................................... 20 

Cox, Mike, Attorney General, State of Michigan, Lansing, Michigan, letter ..... 23 

Davis, Cameron, President, Alliance for the Great Lakes, Chicago, Illinois, 

statement .............................................................................................................. 25 

Dempsey, Dave, Rosemount, Minnesota, statement ............................................. 30 

Doyle, Hon. Jim, Governor, State of Wisconsin, and Chair, Council of Great 

Lakes Governors, Madison, Wisconsin, statement ............................................ 34 

Environment America, Christy Leavitt, Washington, D.C., joint letter .............. 40 

Hall, Noah D., Wayne State University Law School, Executive Director, Great 

Lakes Environmental Law Center, Ann Arbor, Michigan, statement ............. 45 

Heartwell, Hon. George, Mayor, City of Grand Rapids, and Vice Chairman, 

Great Lakes-St Lawrence and Cities Initiative, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 

statement .............................................................................................................. 72 

International Bottled Water Association (IBWA), Alexandria, Virginia, statement ...................................................................................................................... 76 

Levin, Hon. Carl, a U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan, statement .......... 80 

Nelson, Kay L., Director, Environmental Affairs, Northwest Indiana Forum, 

Portage, Indiana, statement ................................................................................ 84 

Olson, James M., and Michael H. Dettmer, Law Offices of Olson, Bzdok 

& Howard, P.C., Traverse City, Michigan, statement and attachment ........... 86 

Speck, Sam, Director, Ohio Department of Natural Resources, Ann Arbor, 

Michigan, memorandum and attachment .......................................................... 101 

Stabenow, Hon. Debbie, a U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan, statement ...................................................................................................................... 108 

(1) 

S.J. RES. 45, A RESOLUTION CONSENTING TO 

AND APPROVING THE GREAT LAKES-ST. 

LAWRENCE RIVER BASIN WATER RESOURCES COMPACT 

WEDNESDAY JULY, 30, 2008 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, 

Washington, D.C. 

The Committee met, Pursuant to notice, at 1 p.m., in room SD– 

226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Russell D. Feingold, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WISCONSIN 

Senator FEINGOLD. Welcome to today’s hearing on S.J. Res. 45, 

a resolution approving the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin 

Water Resources Compact. 

And I would like to thank Chairman Leahy for allowing me to 

preside over this full committee hearing. I am pleased to be joined 

by Ranking Member Specter, a fellow Great Lakes Senator, and, of 

course, Senator Kohl, Senior Senator from the State of Wisconsin. 

In Wisconsin, our constituents care a lot about water, both its 

quality and its quantity. Over the last year, Lake Superior’s water 

levels reached record lows and Lake Michigan’s levels have been on 

the verge of doing so, as well. 

This has reminded all of us that despite the vastness of the 

Great Lakes, they are not an unlimited, easily replenished resource. Low water levels have a significant impact on commercial 

shipping, recreational boaters, coastal wetlands, fisheries, property 

owners, municipalities, and many other interests that rely on the 

Great Lakes. 

By passing this compact, Congress can join the states and the 

Great Lakes’ numerous stakeholders in defending against one of 

the biggest threats to low lake levels, and that is increased water 

withdrawals. 

Pressure on the Great Lakes will only intensify with population 

growth, climatic changes, and contaminated or exhausted water 

supplies. I strongly support putting in place management practices 

now to safeguard the Great Lakes against future stresses. 

I especially commend our Governor, Governor Jim Doyle, who 

will testify before us today, and his fellow Governors and their 

state legislatures for their hard work to get us at this point already. 

2 

The Great Lakes Compact is the product of a long process of evolution. Over a century ago, the first treaty between Canada and the 

United States was put in place to jointly manage the shared resource. 

Then after various proposals over the decades to siphon off Great 

Lakes waters to other parts of the country and the world, the Great 

Lakes States developed a regional plan and Congress approved it 

in 1968. 

Nearly 20 years later, the Great Lakes States and the provinces 

of Ontario and Quebec completed the Great Lakes Charter, which 

did not allow the States or Provinces to make large diversions 

without the approval of all the other signatories. 

However, this charter is not legally binding. In the Water Resources Development Act of 1986, Congress lent support to the 

charter by prohibiting diversions outside the Great Lakes Basin, 

unless approved by all Governors of the Great Lakes States. 

But Canada was not legally bound nor was the possibility of 

trading Great Lakes water internationally addressed. In 1998, 

Ontario’s issuance of a permit to ship water from Lake Superior to 

Asia served as a wake-up call that more was needed to protect the 

Great Lakes. 

Several proposals emerged in Congress and, ultimately, in 2000, 

Congress directed the Great Lakes States to jointly develop, with 

the Canadian provinces, a common conservation standard for making decisions about the withdrawal and use of water from the 

Great Lakes Basin. 

Great Lakes States have delivered on that request by ratifying 

the Great Lakes Compact, and now it is Congress’s turn. Senators 

Levin and Voinovich have introduced a joint resolution to approve 

the Great Lakes Compact. 

It enjoys bipartisan support, I am happy to say, from all 16 

Great Lakes Senators, those representing Minnesota, Wisconsin, 

Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York. 

A similar measure was also introduced in the House and the 

President of the United States has also, yesterday, announced his 

support of the compact. 

So I look forward to hearing today’s testimony on the compact 

and to working with my colleagues to pass it, I hope, in the very, 

very near future. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Feingold appears as a submission for the record.] 

Now, I turn to the ranking member, Senator Specter. 

STATEMENT OF HON. ARLEN SPECTER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 

Senator SPECTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am delighted to 

join you today on this hearing for this important compact. The 

issue of diversion from the Great Lakes is one of enormous importance. 

Pennsylvania, of course, has Lake Erie. Looking over the rest of 

the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee, I believe I am the 

only Senator with a State which borders on one of the Great Lakes. 

So I thought it especially important that someone locally be present 

here to speak on this issue. 

3 

Lake Erie, of course, is a great tourist attraction. One of the first 

things I did when elected to the U.S. Senate some time ago was 

to work on replenishment of the sand, which is virtually an annual 

rite. It is a great, great tourist resort. 

But this compact to ban new or increased diversion of water is 

really important, to create the commission, to have binding standards, review process. All of those are very important. 

But, of course, as a matter of Federal law, constitutional law, 

there has to be a congressional action. And I have sat on quite a 

few matters over the course of years on this committee. I can’t 

think of any that is as clear a slam-dunk as this one is. 

So while I am not able to stay because of conflicting engagements, I am sure that it will be very well received, and I have staff 

here who will be studying the record. 

So thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you, Senator Specter. The hearing and 

your appearance here should help us move this legislation along 

very much. 

Now, I turn to my senior colleague, Senator Kohl. 

STATEMENT OF HON. HERB KOHL, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF WISCONSIN 

Senator KOHL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Great Lakes-St. 

Lawrence River Basin Water Resources Compact before us today 

enjoys broad bipartisan support, including all eight Great Lake 

States, Canadian Provinces, Ontario and Quebec, as well as 150 

business and environmental groups. 

That is a tribute to the hard work of many people, especially 

Governor Jim Doyle of Wisconsin, who is also the chair of the 

Council for Great Lakes Governors. Governor Doyle’s leadership is 

one of the main reasons that we are here today. 

I would like to thank, also, Cameron Davis Miller, George 

Heartwell, as well as Senators Levin and Voinovich, who head the 

Great Lakes Task Force, for their hard work. 

I would also like to thank my colleague, Senator Feingold, for 

chairing this important hearing today. 

The Great Lakes are one of America’s national treasures and one 

of the National Wonders of the World. Holding 20 percent of the 

world’s fresh water, the Great Lakes play a vital role in the daily 

lives of the people of Wisconsin, providing drinking water, jobs, energy, shipping, as well as recreation. 

Something that important to our prosperity needs to be conserved so that future generations can benefit, and the compact before us, indeed, does that. It is a binding agreement among the 

Great Lakes States to implement a conservation standard for regulating water withdrawals from the Great Lakes Basin. 

Specifically, the compact protects the Great Lakes by banning 

new or increased diversions outside of the Great Lakes Basin. The 

compact also requires each State to implement water conservation 

measures, which will promote efficient water use, as well as minimize waste. 

Not too long ago, we faced a specter of foreign companies exporting water out of the lakes, thereby threatening our environment. 

4 

This compact is a response to those threats, making it clear that 

the lakes are not to be exploited. 

As a cosponsor of this resolution, I look forward to working with 

my colleagues in the Senate to pass this important compact. 

We are so happy to be here today, and I thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you, Senator Kohl. 

And now I would like to turn to the first panel. Senator 

Voinovich, you want to come forward, please? Senator Levin, I suspect, will be here at some point. Senator Levin and Senator 

Voinovich are the lead authors of this critical legislation. I thank 

them for their leadership on it. 

Let me turn to you, Senator Voinovich. Senator Voinovich is cochair of the Senate Great Lakes Task Force. You have extensive 

knowledge of this issue. I appreciate your joining Senator Levin in 

introducing the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Water Resources Compact. 

And you may proceed with your testimony. Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF HON. GEORGE VOINOVICH, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF OHIO 

Senator VOINOVICH. Well, first of all, Mr. Chairman, Senator 

Kohl, I am really grateful to you for having this hearing, because 

it is something that has been long awaited. But I was worried that 

we might not be able to have a hearing before we adjourned, and 

I am grateful for your holding this hearing. 

As Senator Kohl said, the Great Lakes are a tremendous natural 

resource. They need to be protected for our future generations. 

One-fifth of the world’s surface fresh water—it is hard to believe— 

one-fifth of the world’s fresh water are in the Great Lakes. 

They cover more than 94,000 square miles; 637 State parks in 

the region accommodate more than 250 million visitors. The Great 

Lakes are significant to the States and Canadian Provinces that 

border them, as well as for millions of other people around the 

country who fish the lakes, visit the parks and the surrounding 

lakes, or use products that are affordably shipped to them via the 

Great Lakes. 

I understand how important the Great Lakes are, because I have 

been fighting the second battle of Lake Erie since my days in the 

State legislature 40 years ago. And some of you may be old enough 

to remember that Lake Erie was the poster child of a dying lake 

and PBC was all over, we had a river in my city that burned. And 

we’ve come a long way since that time. 

When I came to Congress, one of the first things I got involved 

with, as former Governor of Ohio and the past Chairman of the 

Council of Great Lakes Governors, was to work on including language in the 2000 Water Sources Development Act directing the 

States to reach an agreement on how to manage the Great Lakes 

water, and I am very, very proud of how everyone has come together and have agreed upon the compact. 

It is going to provide an effective means to safeguard water for 

future generations, while stimulating economic development 

through sustainable use and responsible management of the precious resource. 

5 

For example, the compact will ban new diversions from the 

basin, with certain exceptions, and those exceptions would be regulated. The States and Provinces will use a consistent standard to 

review proposed uses of the Great Lakes water. This is an improvement over existing law, which does not have any standard for considering those proposals. 

And, additionally, regional goals for water conservation and efficiency will be developed to improve use of this resource. Two years 

later, all proposals for new and increased withdrawals of Great 

Lakes water must incorporate these water conservation and efficiency measures. This will promote efficient water use and minimize waste. 

Drafting this agreement has been difficult and time-consuming. 

The Governors and the premiers have been working together on 

this issue for actually 10 years. 

I applaud the efforts of your Governor, Governor Jim Doyle, my 

Governor, Governor Strickland of Ohio, and the other Great Lakes 

Governors and our two Canadian Premiers for coming together and 

working conscientiously to get this done. 

I want to stress to the members of this committee, though, that 

without this compact, the Great Lakes are left vulnerable to the interests that want to deplete the lakes, and Congress should approve the compact to protect our Nation’s Great Lakes. 

The Great Lakes face so many threats and it will be a great step 

forward if we can ensure that unlimited diversions are not a 

threat. People can breathe easier, less stress. 

Protecting the Great Lakes is not a partisan issue. All of us here 

today came together across party lines to protect our Great Lakes. 

The Great Lakes are a centerpiece of the American and Canadian landscape. They provide drinking water to tens of millions. 

They are an integral part of our regional economy. They are a 

unique natural resource for my State and the entire region, a resource that must be protected not just for us, but for our children 

and for our grandchildren. 

We cannot afford to neglect them and I know we will continue 

fighting to restore, preserve and protect our Great Lakes. 

Mr. Chairman, I encourage the committee to pass this as expeditiously as possible. Hopefully, we can get a UC on it before we get 

out of here in this Congress. 

And, again, I want to sincerely thank you, thank you, thank you 

for having this hearing. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you, Senator Voinovich. I am very 

pleased to be a part of this effort, and thank you for your working 

with Senator Levin to take a lead on this. And when he arrives, 

we will hear from him. I had a good conversation with him already 

last week about some of the strategy on this. But thanks so much, 

Senator Voinovich. 

If there are no questions for the witness, we will excuse you and 

ask the second panel to come forward. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you, Senator. 

Would the witnesses please stand to be sworn? 

[Witnesses sworn.] 

6 

Senator FEINGOLD. You may be seated. I would like to begin the 

second panel, of course, by welcoming Governor Jim Doyle of Wisconsin. Governor Doyle is a graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Madison and earned his law degree from Harvard Law 

School. 

Beginning in 1990, Governor Doyle served three terms as Wisconsin’s attorney general, where he distinguished himself as a national leader in aggressively prosecuting polluters. 

Governor Doyle was sworn in as Wisconsin’s 44th Governor on 

January 6, 2003. He was reelected in 2006. 

We have been friends for a long time, Governor, as were our fathers, I might add, and I want to thank you very much for traveling from Wisconsin to join us today and for sharing your great 

expertise as the chair of the Council of Great Lakes Governors. 

You may proceed. 

STATEMENT OF HON. JIM DOYLE, GOVERNOR, STATE OF WISCONSIN, AND CHAIR, COUNCIL OF GREAT LAKES GOVERNORS 

Governor DOYLE. Well, Senator Feingold and Senator Kohl, my 

two dear friends, thank you so much for all of the leadership you 

have shown on Great Lakes issues and, in particular, we thank you 

for the hearing today and the efforts that you have made to expedite this process. 

So we hope that, from a State perspective, that the Congress will 

give its consent quickly and that we can get to work actually then 

implementing the provisions of the compact. 

So your efforts in this regard have been just incredibly helpful. 

I want to brag a little about Wisconsin first, but I am here as 

the chair of the council of all of the Great Lakes States. But, obviously, our State is defined geographically by the Great Lakes. Its 

northern border, its eastern border—if you look at the pictures 

from space, you can always pick Wisconsin out and it’s because it 

is defined by the Great Lakes. 

After the State of Michigan, we have the greatest amount of 

Great Lakes shoreline and, in fact, if the Upper Peninsula hadn’t 

been taken away from us back in territorial days, we would have 

the largest shoreline. 

The Great Lakes define who we are geographically, but also define much of our culture, recreational activities, and have been crucial to our commerce from the earliest days as a territory and as 

a State. 

I want to thank the ranking member, Senator Specter, for his 

leadership and support of this, and, of course, Senators Levin and 

Voinovich, who are the primary authors and who have been instrumental in getting us to this point. 

So we are here today with a great opportunity for us in the Great 

Lakes Region and, I believe, for the whole entire United States, 

and because it is one of the great world’s ecosystems, for the world, 

as well. 

And I testify today as chair of the Council of Great Lakes Governors. The Council of Great Lakes Governors is a partnership of 

the Governors of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, 

Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and the Premiers of Ontario 

7 

and Quebec have also been associate members and deeply involved 

in this process. 

The Council of Great Lakes Governors has been coordinating our 

shared efforts to restore and protect the Great Lakes. 

There have been so many who have been instrumental. You will 

hear from representatives of various groups after me. But I want 

to thank the mayors, the environmental groups, business organizations, our trial leaders, and so many across the Great Lakes Region 

who have put in years of time and work and analysis and hearings 

to come to the point that we are at today. 

We have heard a lot about the volume of the Great Lakes. The 

way I like to picture it, perhaps most dramatically, is if you took 

the Great Lakes water and spread it over the 48 contiguous States, 

the water would be nine-and-a-half feet deep. 

That is how much fresh water is in these lakes, and our national 

economy depends on the Great Lakes for industrial uses, hydropower, maritime commerce, agricultural irrigation, and many other 

uses. 

Keeping the lakes at healthy levels is also important for hydropower, maritime commerce, and many other uses. 

The compact will ensure that the lakes are used sustainably in 

order to continue to provide benefits to all of us. 

In 2005, the Great Lakes Governors, in collaboration with regional partners, completed the negotiations of the eight-State compact and on July 9, 2008, the Great Lakes States completed State 

ratification. 

To become law, Congress must now provide its consent. And by 

implementing this compact, we are taking the necessary steps to 

protect the Great Lakes and sustainably manage this shared resource. 

There is a long tradition in this country of States using compacts 

to work together to manage shared water resources. The Great 

Lakes Governors are following this long tradition. 

Historically, States and the Federal Government have supported 

interstate compacts to address water supply, water quality and 

flood control issues within the hydrological context of watersheds 

and basins. There are currently at least 41 interstate water compacts that have been entered into, and all but five States are in 

such compacts. 

In 2000, the U.S. Congress encouraged the Great Lakes States, 

in consultation with Ontario and Quebec, to provide and implement 

this mechanism. 

And we are coming back to Congress now, 8 years later, with 

having satisfied, I believe, that direction that was given, and we 

have done it truly, I think, in the best spirit of federalism, Congress recognizing a large national action, calling the States to action. 

The States have worked together. Local governments have been 

involved. And now we come back to our national Government for 

its consent of this very important agreement. 

As a result of this congressional action, as well as past commitments made by Great Lakes Governors and Premiers, the Great 

Lakes States, Ontario and Quebec have worked aggressively to update and improve the region’s water management regime. 

8 

A lot has been said about the need to protect the volume of Great 

Lakes water, but this compact truly gives us the first interstate 

method to manage this water together. 

And we are pledged as a State in Wisconsin, and its implementing legislation actually enacted the most significant water 

management—Great Lakes Water management provisions ever enacted in the State of Wisconsin. 

So, again, we thank you very much for what you have done on 

this very important issue, I know how much the Great Lakes have 

meant to both of you, and your commitment to their preservation 

over the years. 

And I really look forward to the compact being approved by Congress and the States then really moving together, jointly together 

to make sure that we protect both the quantity and the quality of 

Great Lakes water. 

Thank you very much, Senator. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Doyle appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you, Governor Doyle, very much. And 

after we complete this legislation, we will get together on legislation to get the UP back. 

Governor DOYLE. Good. 

Senator FEINGOLD. I feel safe saying that while Senator Levin 

isn’t here. But I better be nice now, because we are turning to a 

Michigander now. 

I will turn to Mayor George Heartwell of Grand Rapids, Michigan. Mayor Heartwell was elected Mayor of Grand Rapids in 2004. 

Prior to being elected mayor, he was the director of the Community Leadership Institute at Aquinas College and currently is the 

president of Pilgrim Manor, a retirement community. 

He earned a bachelor’s degree from Albion College and a master’s 

of divinity from Western Theological Seminary. Mayor Heartwell is 

currently the vice chairman of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence 

Cities Initiative. 

So we look forward to hearing your thoughts on this important 

legislation. 

You may proceed, sir. 

STATEMENT OF HON. GEORGE HEARTWELL, MAYOR, CITY OF 

GRAND RAPIDS, AND VICE CHAIRMAN, GREAT LAKES-ST. 

LAWRENCE CITIES INITIATIVE, GRAND RAPIDS, MICHIGAN 

Mayor HEARTWELL. Thank you and good afternoon, Chairman 

Feingold and Senator Kohl. It is truly an honor for me to be here 

this afternoon on this important issue. 

I am George Heartwell, Mayor of Grand Rapids, a city of 200,000 

people and a metropolitan area of about 900,000, 32 miles inland 

from Lake Michigan. I also serve as the vice chair of the Great 

Lakes-St. Lawrence Cities Initiative, as the chairman mentioned. 

We are a coalition of 56 cities, U.S. and Canadian cities, working 

together to protect and restore the resource of the Great Lakes. We 

like to refer to ourselves as mayors without borders, and it is truly 

a wonderful binational cooperation. 

Water is the life blood of our cities. We have the good fortune of 

living in the basin of a true global fresh water treasure. There are 

9 

good reasons why the original Native American people settled in 

this area, why the explorers came, why people settled here and 

built their cities, and why the area continues to provide a very high 

quality of life and economic well being for millions of people. 

It is all about the water. 

Over the past century, our industrial, agricultural and residential activities have placed significant stress on the water resource 

of the Great Lakes, whether it is invasive species or industrial discharge runoffs, toxic contamination, combined sewer overflows, the 

list is almost endless. 

Most recently, concerns over the quantity of water have grown 

throughout the region. Significant reductions in lake levels across 

the basin are creating problems for recreational boating, for commercial shipping for municipal water intake, for coastal wetland viability. 

The cities of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River are doing 

our part to deal with these water quality and quantity issues. 

A study that we have recently completed through the Great 

Lakes Inland Cities Initiative, working with the Great Lakes Commission, documented a $15 billion annual investment of local governments in the United States and Canada to protect the resource. 

My own city of Grand Rapids has invested over $200 million and, 

by the time we are finished, we will have invested $300 million in 

combined sewer separation to protect the resource of the waters of 

Lake Michigan. 

In addition, the cities of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Cities 

Initiative have launched a water conservation framework. Thirtythree cities have now joined to work toward a goal of 15 percent 

reduction in water consumption between 2000 and 2015. 

The Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Water Resources 

Compact is essential for protecting the long-term integrity of the 

water resource. 

The leadership of the Great Lakes Governors, working with the 

Canadian Premiers, has been exemplary in bringing us to this 

point. 

Our organization has supported the compact and agreement with 

resolutions at our last three annual meetings, copies of which are 

included with my testimony. 

More importantly, the compact represents a commitment to stewardship of the fresh water of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence 

River by eight States, based on extensive in put from cities, from 

Native American tribes, as well as many other stakeholders. 

As a resource management tool, it calls for the States to establish water conservation and efficiency programs to ensure the best 

use of this precious resource. 

There will also be new measures in place to track and account 

for water use much more effectively than we have ever done before. 

In fact, through the work of State Senator Patty Birkholz, the 

Michigan legislature developed a water withdrawal assessment 

tool, which I believe can serve as a useful model for other States 

within the compact. 

Establishing and managing the administration of these programs 

will place, we know, additional financial burdens on the States, but 

10 

we are confident that the high priority of this effort will lead to the 

commitment of the necessary resources to make this happen. 

Our cities stand ready to work with our States to provide support 

in whatever way we can. 

The fundamental principle underlying the compact is that regions of the country should have the right and the responsibility 

to manage the resources in their area. There is no resource more 

fundamental to the quality of life and well being of people than 

water. 

The United States Constitution explicitly contemplates compacts 

of this nature and Congress, as Governor Doyle has pointed out, 

has provided its consent to 41 interstate compacts over the years. 

Much like the States surrounding the Chesapeake Bay, those on 

the Colorado River and Florida with the Everglades, the Great 

Lakes States, working with their cities and other partners, are in 

the best position to ensure the long-term integrity of the resource. 

Working with our Canadian neighbors, we are confident that the 

leadership of the States and Provinces, with strong support from 

cities, will manage this resource wisely long into the future so that 

succeeding generations will have the full benefit of this global fresh 

water treasure. 

On behalf of the people of Grand Rapids, the people of the cities 

of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Basin, and all the people of 

the region, I strongly urge you to pass S.J. Res. 45 for the good of 

the region and the country. 

Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Heartwell appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you so much, Mayor Heartwell. 

Next, I would like to welcome Ms. Kay Nelson. Ms. Nelson is the 

Director of Environmental Affairs at the Northwest Indiana 

Forum, which is a nonprofit economic development organization 

whose members have strong business interests in the Great Lakes. 

Prior to her work at the Northwest Indiana Forum, Ms. Nelson 

served as the regional office director for the Indiana Department 

of Environmental Management. She is a graduate of Purdue University’s School of Agricultural and Natural Resources and Environmental Science. 

And we thank you for joining us today, and you may proceed. 

STATEMENT OF KAY L. NELSON, DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS, NORTHWEST INDIANA FORUM, PORTAGE, 

INDIANA 

Ms. NELSON. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Feingold, 

Senator Kohl, Ranking Member Specter, and members of the committee. 

My name is Kay Nelson, as you mentioned, and I serve as Director of Environmental Services, Northwest Indiana Forum, a regional economic development organization. And our member organizations represent $40 billion of commerce for the State of Indiana, including industrial and commercial businesses, hospitals, financial institutions, universities, hospitals and municipalities, all 

within Lake, Porter and LaPorte in Indiana. 

11 

In 2003, the Forum Environmental Committee created a working 

subcommittee to focus on the Compact. This committee included 

Jim Flannery from ArcelorMittal Steel Indiana Harbor, Doug Bley, 

ArcelorMittal Steel Burns Harbor, Dave Behrens, U.S. Steel Gary 

Works, Linda Wilson and Rees Madsen from BP Whiting Refinery, 

Dean McDevitt, formerly of NIPSCO, and myself, to focus on the 

development of Indiana legislation concerning the adoption and implementation of the Compact. 

But a significant directive in the Forum’s Environmental Committee’s mission statement calls for us to work with our environmental community on all issues, and, as such, the subcommittee 

decided to expand the working group with members to include the 

‘‘Lady of the Lakes,’’ Lee Botts, who founded the Lake Michigan 

Federation, which is now known as the Alliance for the Great 

Lakes, Tom Anderson and Charlotte Read of Save the Dunes, and 

John Goss from the Indiana National Wildlife Federation. 

As a Compact Team, we recognized and established the need for 

a positive discussion to allow for the recognition of the diverse 

viewpoints concerning the Compact as it was moving forward, 

where we found common ground and resolved those issues which 

were of uncertainty. 

The Compact Team was instrumental in the formation of a 

Northwest Indiana Forum position paper, which supported the 

adoption and implementation of the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence 

River Compact during this 2008 Indiana legislative session. 

We also worked to prepare a joint statement for the industrial 

and environmental community stakeholders, as a resolution supportive of the Compact process, which was read into the record at 

the initial meeting of the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin regional body meeting in June 2006. 

Additionally, our members provided written and oral testimony 

at numerous public meetings and Indiana legislative committee 

hearings during the 2008 session. 

During the course of the Compact’s consideration in Indiana and 

other States, several questions arose regarding the meaning and 

interpretation of some of the key provisions, and our team recognized the importance of resolving those questions so that everyone 

clearly understood the intent of the Compact. 

One of those questions was how the impacts of withdrawal proposals were to be reviewed under section 4.11 and guided by a 

memorandum provided by the chair of the Governor’s working 

group, our team worked closely with the Indiana State legislature, 

specifically, State Senators Beverly Gard, Karen Tallian and Ed 

Charbonneau, to include a provision in section 10 in Indiana’s legislation declaring the legislature’s intent as to the proper interpretation and application of section 4.11.2. 

Other States, including Ohio and Pennsylvania, subsequently did 

likewise. That clarification of intent was essential to winning the 

support of industry, environmental, agricultural and other stakeholder groups. 

We believe that that clarification provided by the State legislators and the working group is critical and, as such, have included 

it in my testimony today. 

12 

Mr. Chairman, I am providing to the committee a copy of the December 2005 memorandum from Sam Speck, chair of the working 

group referred to in my testimony, explaining the scope of the impact issue and the pertinent provisions from the three States’ legislation that reflects the Speck memo and the Council of Great Lakes 

Governors’ understanding. 

I would respectfully request that these items be included in the 

committee record. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Without objection. 

Ms. NELSON. Thank you. 

The Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Compact is a means 

to provide an enhanced water management system that is simple, 

durable, efficient, and retains, while respecting, water conservation 

initiatives in place and the authority within the basin when administering proposals for new and increased withdrawals of water. 

The culmination of the innovative collaborative approach utilized 

and administrated by the Northwest Indiana Forum Compact 

Team and the many years of diligent work that we have put into 

it occurred this past February, February 20, 2008, when Governor 

Mitch Daniels, accompanied by State Senator Beverly Gard and 

State Representative Scott Pelath, signed Senate Enrolled Act 45, 

the Great Lakes Compact bill, into law as the first bill out of the 

session for Indiana this year. 

Thank you for this opportunity to join you today and we support 

your passage of the resolution. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Nelson appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thanks so much, Ms. Nelson. 

Finally, I would like to recognize Mr. Cameron Davis. Mr. Davis 

is the president of the Alliance for the Great Lakes. Prior to working for the Alliance for the Great Lakes, Mr. Davis was an adjunct 

clinical assistant professor of law at the University of Michigan 

Law School. 

He is a graduate of Boston University and of the Chicago-Kent 

College of Law. Under Mr. Davis’s leadership, the Alliance for 

Great Lakes will be receiving the American Bar Association’s distinguished achievement award in environmental law and policy for 

2008. 

This will be the first time a citizens’ environmental organization 

will have won this national honor. So we congratulate you and 

thank you for joining us, and you may proceed. 

STATEMENT OF CAMERON DAVIS, PRESIDENT, ALLIANCE FOR 

THE GREAT LAKES, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you and good afternoon, Chairman Feingold 

and Senator Kohl, Ranking Member Specter, and members of the 

committee. 

My name is Cameron Davis, president of the Alliance for the 

Great Lakes. We were formed in 1970 as the oldest nonpartisan 

citizens not-for-profit Great Lakes protection organization. 

Our mission is to conserve and restore the Nation’s and the 

world’s largest fresh water resource using policy, education, local 

efforts, to ensure a healthy Great Lakes and clean water for generations of people and wildlife. 

13 

In that capacity, I was privileged to be appointed by the Council 

of Great Lakes Governors to provide advice in the development in 

the early stages of the standards that are embodied in the legislation that is now in front of you. 

I am also fortunate to serve as the co-chair of the Healing our 

Waters-Great Lakes Coalition, which is comprised of more than 

100 organizations from the region working valiantly to restore the 

Great Lakes every day. 

And I want to say a special thanks to the staff of the Council of 

Great Lakes Governors, including Dave Naftzger, Pete Johnson, 

and I know former Governor Taft of Ohio, with Sam Speck and 

Kate Bartter, did yeoman’s efforts to get us to this point today. 

As a boy, I used to stand on the shores of Lake Michigan during 

our Sunday family picnics and marvel at how Lake Michigan 

seemed like heaven. The blue waters mirrored the sky and the 

pure white sailboats floated weightlessly, reminding me of angels. 

Just like heaven, Lake Michigan seemed to go on forever. 

To me, it was infinite. In fact, about 90 to 95 percent of the Nation’s fresh surface water is in the Great Lakes. 

But I was also wrong as a boy. Less than 1 percent of Great 

Lakes water is renewed every year through rain, through snow 

melt and groundwater recharge. In other words, when I stood on 

the beach and looked out over those waves, I couldn’t have been 

more wrong. 

The Great Lakes are essentially a nonrenewable resource. 

We are entering an era of critical water conservation, and we are 

not alone. According to the United Nations, by 2025, some twothirds of the world’s population will be lacking ready access to 

fresh water. They will be water stressed. 

And the only solution, that we can tell, is to live within our 

means. The Great Lakes are one of America’s most revered national jewels and one of the natural wonders of the world. As such, 

just as we are privileged to enjoy them, we also have a responsibility to protect them. 

Understanding this, more than a dozen Governors from three political parties called for, and 16 State legislative chambers passed, 

a contract among the States, the Compact that is before you now, 

to establish uniform, binding water use standards for the region. 

In a time of skepticism, this is a remarkable sign of bipartisan 

or even tripartisan long-term thinking. Without this Compact, the 

Great Lakes States are vulnerable to depletion. 

We urge you to ratify the Compact now to protect these magnificent natural treasures. 

The Compact can serve as an international model for bringing 

parties together to reach an accord on resource protection. The 

longer we wait to ratify the Compact, the more we put these waterways at risk, and here is why. 

In the past, when it looked like a community was running low 

on water, it simply turned to a new supply. Watersheds are like 

bank accounts. For every dollar you take out of your bank account, 

you have to replace it with another dollar or, over time, you will 

deplete your account. 

14 

Watersheds act the same way. For every gallon we take out, we 

have to replace it with a gallon. Otherwise, you start to deplete 

your watershed account. 

For the first time ever, we will now have standards, including 

one for return flow, under the compact, that will allow the use of 

some of the watershed’s account interest, but won’t allow us to deplete the account’s principal. 

We need the Compact so that we can be good stewards of the resource and because there are no new magical supplies of fresh surface water waiting for us if we run low. 

In 1998, a small Ontario firm called the Nova Group secured a 

permit to ship millions of gallons of Lake Superior water overseas. 

An astonished public cried foul, asking how this could possibly be. 

Several of us who studied the laws and the policies on the books 

found that our laws and our policies were weak and, at best, not 

executed; at worst, nonexistent; and, most times, inconsistent from 

State to State. 

While the Nova permit was ultimately rescinded, it shined a 

light on the problem I mentioned at the beginning of my testimony: 

it happened because many of us had perceived the Great Lakes to 

go on forever. We really haven’t had an incentive to think that we 

need to conserve them. 

Congress asked for water conservation standards. In partial response to the Nova incident, in 2000, Congress said to us in the 

region and urged the States, in consultation with the two Canadian 

Provinces, to establish common water withdrawal decisionmaking 

standards to achieve water conservation and resource improvement. 

While the call for such standards was important, even more important was the fact that leaders from all around the Nation saw 

fit to call for the protection of the Great Lakes ecosystem. As such, 

the compact isn’t before you for consideration simply because we 

inside the basin want it. It is before you because you and your colleagues from around the Nation passed a law, as you heard Governor Doyle say before, calling for it out of the belief that the Great 

Lakes are a national treasure deserving of national protections. 

Congress asked for new standards and the States, municipalities, 

businesses and public interest groups delivered. The compact does 

exactly what Congress suggested. Now, we are asking Congress to 

finish the job and approve the Compact. 

While, 10 years ago, the Nova Group sought a permit to send 

water overseas, the real need for the compact comes from within. 

Maybe because those of us who live, work and play in the region 

perceive it as limitless, we have never had much of a motivation 

to create uniform, binding water use standards. There never have 

been rules of the game to ensure that water use decisionmaking is 

transparent, predictable and fair. 

As such, we have been profligate water wasters. The Compact 

puts the onus on the citizens and the governments of the Great 

Lakes States to prove that if we want more water from the Great 

Lakes, we must first show that it is needed and that conservation 

measures have been exhausted. That is where the onus should be. 

15 

If we are going to keep water from being shipped thousands of 

miles away to other parts of the globe, we should be as demanding 

of water conservation from ourselves as we are of others. 

The Compact represents the first time in history that all jurisdictions, the States and the two Canadian Provinces, through a mirror 

agreement, will have rules of the game for managing the Great 

Lakes. 

The Alliance for the Great Lakes and the Healing our WatersGreat Lakes Coalition believe that these waters don’t simply provide nice neighborhood beaches, prized fishing holes or resources 

for local businesses. Like the Amazon rain forests, the plains of the 

Serengeti, or the holy Himalayan mountains, the Great Lakes are 

among the world’s wonders. 

And today, when I take my wife and 2-year-old son to the beach, 

I try to teach him that though the Great Lakes aren’t as infinite 

as heaven, as I thought they were when I was boy, they still provide the solace and the inspiration of heaven. As such, preserving 

them isn’t just a national ecologic and economic imperative. Even 

more important, it is a sacred imperative. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Davis appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you, Mr. Davis, for your beautiful remarks about the Great Lakes. I have had the good fortune this 

month alone to spend a fair amount of time on both Lake Superior 

and Lake Michigan, of course, on the Wisconsin side. I was doing 

some work, but some of it wasn’t. 

But your comments remind us of exactly what this means to all 

of us in all the States that are affected. I will also say I have never 

heard more concern when I have been in these places, having been 

going to them for family vacations for many years, never heard as 

much concern as I have heard in the last couple of years about 

water levels, invasive species, and the variety of issues, casual comments, as well as formal comments. 

This is a critical time, which makes the timing of your great 

work on this especially valuable. 

Let me just do a few questions. 

Governor Doyle, in your testimony, you emphasized that there is 

already a significant reliance and demands on the Great Lakes. Of 

course, as a Governor, you are also looking to the future and expected increasing demands and stresses on the lakes. 

Is it fair to say that taking management steps now to prevent 

conflicts in the future is a big reason for the States’ interest in the 

compact? Can you say a bit about the common motivation among 

the Great Lakes States to get this compact in place now? 

Governor DOYLE. We are truly looking forward in Wisconsin, I 

know this is true across the region, of joining together through 

what the Compact will create, the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River 

Basin Water Resources Council, by which we will set up the first 

real data-driven research on what the effects are of various actions 

taken in the Great Lakes Basin so that we can operate with facts; 

that we will operate under a joint standard, but leaving it to each 

State. 

16 

The beauty of this compact is it truly recognizes federalism. We 

will operate under a commonly accepted standard of no harm to the 

water of the basin. But we allow the States, for the uses within the 

Great Lakes Basin, to make their own decisions about how we are 

going to manage and do that. 

But we also recognize that on issues like—that I know you have 

been deeply involved in, Senator—invasive species, Wisconsin can’t 

solve invasive species without all of the other States and Provinces 

working together, and Congress. 

On the issue of really a long-term cleaning up of some of the old 

water treatment plants that surround the Great Lakes, we need to 

have that kind of unified effort. 

On the issue of invasives and balanced water, we can’t have one 

State have the advantage over another because their ports don’t 

have various standards—don’t have uniform standards, where their 

port gets greater use, while another State that has done the right 

thing in imposing standards on balanced water loses business. 

So these are the reasons that we have to act jointly and I think 

that what has happened here is that the States have come to understand that we are in this together and isn’t Wisconsin against 

Michigan or Indiana. It is all of us making sure that this incredible 

resource is there for us. 

I would add one final point that is very important. With the cost 

of gasoline, I believe that shipping in the Great Lakes is going to 

see a great resurgence and we want to have good, clean, modern 

ports and we want to have good commercial activity in these lakes. 

I think, once again, most of us see the—once again, we are going 

to see a resurgence of shipping, resurgence of economic activity. 

And, finally, I would like to say this, which is, to me, one of the 

most interesting points of this in the long run and the importance 

to our region. 

We believe, as we protect the Great Lakes water, that as you go 

down in the coming years and water becomes a scarce resource in 

other parts of the country and world, people are going to realize 

that they ought to live and work and have their businesses near 

areas of plentiful water and we, in the future, I believe, are going 

to be the center of great economic growth and renewal around the 

Great Lakes, as well. 

So all of those reasons that we really see is coming together as 

States to manage these waters together and to do it effectively. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you, Governor. 

Mayor Heartwell and Ms. Nelson, you both touched on this in 

your testimony and I would like you to elaborate, if you would, on 

the public involvement in the compact’s development. 

Do you feel local government, Mayor Heartwell, and your member businesses, Ms. Nelson, were given ample opportunities for 

input and was it a fair and sound public involvement process? 

Mayor Heartwell? 

Mayor HEARTWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Governors 

went out of their way to include local initiatives in the cities. 

From the beginning, cities were included in the discussion. It 

was a very open and inclusive process. I want to take this opportunity to thank and congratulate Governor Doyle and his colVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:51 Oct 02, 2008 Jkt 044332 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\44332.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
17 

leagues, including my own great Governor, Jennifer Granholm, for 

opening the door so that we could be at the table with you. 

And our executive director of the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Cities Initiative, David Ullrich, who is with me here today, was at all 

of those meetings through the formation and development of the 

compact and some of the language included in the compact, specifically that relating to local municipalities, is there at the urging of 

Mr. Ullrich. 

So we feel, from our perspective, it was a very open and inclusive 

process and we are grateful for that. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Ms. Nelson? 

Ms. NELSON. Mr. Chairman, thank you. We are very excited and 

proud of the public process that we had in northwest Indiana. As 

I mentioned in my testimony, we provided the joint industrial-environmental resolution. 

We are the only State to have done that when the regional body 

met in 2006. We took a great deal of time and effort to identify our 

points of agreement and once the environmental stakeholder 

groups and the business stakeholder groups identified those, we 

then initiated a very aggressive campaign, so to speak, to utilize 

the various venues in northwest Indiana, the public meeting format, meeting with our cities locally, as well as businesses that 

were outside of our membership and folks in Indianapolis from the 

Department of Natural Resources, the Governor’s office, and the 

legislators there. 

We hosted probably about 15 or 20 local meetings to allow the 

public to participate and we are very proud of what we have accomplished in that fashion. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you. It was my impression that the 

public involvement process was pretty extensive and I appreciate 

your confirming that. 

And just as a side note, Mayor Heartwell, I appreciated seeing 

reference in your testimony to the burning of the Cuyahoga River— 

I do, of course, remember that—which, of course, helped lead to the 

enactment of the Clean Water Restoration Act in 1972, I think, 

through the role of my predecessor, the great Senator Gaylord Nelson of Wisconsin, on this and other critical legislation. 

As you may know, I am leading the Senate effort to prevent recent Supreme Court decisions from removing protections for critical 

wetlands and headwater streams that were granted by the Clean 

Water Act. 

So despite progress over the last 35 years, we are facing another 

setback for Great Lakes water quality until Congress acts on that, 

as well. 

Do you want to comment on that? 

Mayor HEARTWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 

your leadership on the Clean Water Act. That is another critical 

piece of legislation for us. 

But I really want to add to what Ms. Nelson said, that the Governors also went out of the way to include the first nations, the 

tribes who were also at the table. Their fingerprints, as it were, are 

all over this document. 

So we appreciated that, as well. 

18 

Senator FEINGOLD. Mr. Davis, certainly, a threat of continued 

out-of-basin withdrawals served as an impetus for the Compact, 

but responsible in-basin management is equally important. 

Can you discuss just a bit about the Compact’s provisions that 

have to do with the in-basin water conservation and management 

requirements? 

Mr. DAVIS. Sure, Mr. Chairman. It’s a great question. 

I think one of the things that is very exciting about this Compact 

is it doesn’t necessarily do what other compacts do, as you may see 

them, where it treats a water body as a pie, slices up the pie and 

then gives different pieces of the pie to different people. 

What this really does is puts the onus on us inside the basin to 

help monitor, to help plan and to conserve water inside the basin. 

Water can be lost in all manner of ways. It doesn’t have to just 

be sent through big straws or pipelines outside of the basin. 

And so many of the things, especially that fall under section 4.2 

of the Compact, call for an overall plan with goals and objectives 

for the entire basin. Then the parties, meaning the States and the 

Provinces, have to do their own plans and then, after that, those 

plans have to be effectuated to help us get to water conservation, 

because in the end, it will help us save on energy, it will help reduce stress on our aging infrastructure, and have all manner of 

benefits that would be very helpful to us inside the basin. 

Senator FEINGOLD. I do think this in-basin point is something 

that more people understand or realize the tremendous significance 

of it. 

Thank you to all the witnesses for testifying before us today. Because of your efforts and our joint efforts, there is tremendous momentum now behind the Great Lakes Compact, and it is largely 

thanks to you and many other committed individuals. 

Governor Doyle, you and your fellow Governors have provided 

great leadership on the issue. I also want to commend the State 

legislatures, which all ratified the compact. 

And, of course, my thanks and appreciation to Mayor Heartwell, 

Ms. Nelson, and Mr. Davis, and all the individuals and interests 

you represent for being supportive of the compact and helping to 

get it to where it is today. 

I thank you for your continued support, look forward to working 

with you in the final step of obtaining congressional consent and 

approval for the Great Lakes Compact. 

This hearing was an important step and I want to again thank 

Chairman Leahy and Ranking Member Specter for helping make 

this happen. 

And without objection, I will place in the record statements submitted by Dave Dempsey, Noah Hall with Wayne State University, 

and Environment America, and, also, the Michigan attorney general. 

One final point is that the hearing record will remain open for 

1 week for additional materials and written questions for the witnesses to be submitted. As usual, we will ask the witness to respond promptly to any written questions so that the record of the 

hearing can be completed. 

19 

Thank you all very much. And the hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 1:55 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.] 

[Submissions for the record follow.] 

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