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S. Hrg. 110–524 

NOMINATION OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

ON THE 

NOMINATION OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE 

CENSUS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE 

DECEMBER 18, 2007 

Available via http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/index.html 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

BARACK OBAMA, Illinois 

CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine 

TED STEVENS, Alaska 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico 

JOHN WARNER, Virginia 

JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire 

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Staff Director 

KRISTINE V. LAM Research Assistant 

JOHN P. KILVINGTON, Staff Director, Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, 

Government Information, Federal Services, and International Security 

BRANDON L. MILHORN, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

JENNIFER L. TARR, Minority Counsel 

J. KATHRYN FRENCH, Minority Staff Director, Subcommittee on Federal Financial 

Management, Government Information, Federal Services, and International Security 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 1 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 3 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2007 

Hon. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, a U.S. Senator from the State of Texas ............... 1 

Steven H. Murdock to be Director, U.S. Census Bureau, U.S. Department 

of Commerce ......................................................................................................... 5 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Hutchinson, Hon. Kay Bailey: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 1 

Murdock, Steven H.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 19 

Biographical and professional information ..................................................... 21 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 31 

Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics ............................................... 64 

Responses to post-hearing questions .............................................................. 65 

APPENDIX 

Representative William Lacy Clay, prepared statement ...................................... 72 

(1) 

NOMINATION OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK 

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2007 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:30 p.m., in Room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper, 

presiding. 

Present: Senators Carper and Collins. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. The Committee will come to order. I am pleased 

to be here with two of my colleagues: Senator Collins, Ranking 

Member of the full Committee, and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, 

senior Senator from Texas, who I think will be here to introduce 

our nominee, Mr. Murdock, to be Director of the U.S. Census Bureau. And without further ado, I think I would like to turn to Senator Hutchison to introduce Dr. Murdock to this Committee. 

Senator Hutchison, welcome. It is good to see you. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Senator HUTCHISON. Well, thank you, Senator Carper, Senator 

Hol—Collins, for—— 

Senator CARPER. Did you say ‘‘Hollings’’? 

Senator HUTCHISON. No. I meant ‘‘Collins’’—for having the hearing. We really do appreciate it. She does not resemble Senator Hollings. [Laughter.] 

Senator CARPER. No, she does not. 

Senator HUTCHISON. But I am really pleased that you are having 

this hearing because, of course, this is a very important job that 

looks for and records the demographic changes in our country. And 

I am pleased to recommend my fellow Texan, our State’s first demographer, Dr. Steve Murdock, who is being nominated for Director of the U.S. Census Bureau. 

Dr. Murdock grew up on a farm in rural North Dakota, the 

youngest of three children. His early education was North Dakota 

State University, with an undergraduate degree in sociology, and 

his first class in graduate school at the University of Kentucky 

changed everything for him. After the first demography course, he 

had found his calling. He went on to graduate from the University 

of Kentucky with a Ph.D. in demography and sociology. He is the 

author of 12 books, more than 150 articles and technical reports on 

2 

the implications of current and future demographic and socioeconomic change. 

He holds the Lutcher Brown Distinguished Chair in Demography 

and Organizational Studies at the University of Texas at San Antonio. He was named one of the 50 most influential Texans by Texas 

Business Magazine in 1997. He is a member of several professional 

associations, including the Population Association of America. 

He is also the recipient of numerous awards and honors, including the Faculty Distinguished Achievement Award in Research 

from Texas A&M, the Excellence in Research Award from the 

Rural Sociological Society, and a Distinguished Alum Award from 

the Department of Sociology at the University of Kentucky. He is 

also a member of Phi Beta Kappa. 

I am honored to introduce him to serve as Director of the U.S. 

Census Bureau, and I hope that the Committee will expedite his 

confirmation so that he can get to work for the next census. 

Senator CARPER. Senator Hutchison, thank you very much. I 

know you have got a lot on your schedule today, and we thank you 

for being here. We are going to have our opening statements, Senator Hutchison, and then I will administer an oath to Dr. Murdock 

and ask him under oath if all those nice things you said about him 

are true. [Laughter.] 

So we will find out. Again, thank you so much. 

Senator HUTCHISON. Thank you very much. 

Senator CARPER. Great to see you. 

I am going to give a fairly brief opening statement, and then I 

will yield to Senator Collins for whatever she would like to add or 

take away. And if others show up before it is time to swear our witness in, then they can give an opening statement as well, or later 

when they arrive. 

Dr. Murdock, your nomination comes at a crucial time for the 

Census Bureau, as we decided when you were good enough to visit 

me in my office a month or two ago. While the agency is not among 

the largest in our Federal Government, the tasks it is responsible 

for, and particularly the decennial census, are among the most important things that we do as a Nation. In fact, I believe the decennial census is one of the few things that the Constitution actually 

requires us to do as a Nation. A decennial census is a massive undertaking, too. 

Since I took over as Chairman of the Subcommittee with oversight over the Census Bureau, I have been struck by the complexity of the undertaking and by the amount of staff and resources 

needed to get the job done. There is probably nothing out there 

that compares with it except maybe mail delivery during the holiday season or maybe a military campaign the likes of which we are 

staging in several places around the world. 

Many of my colleagues and probably most Americans may not be 

aware that the Census Bureau will be working over the coming 

months to make its final preparations for the 2010 census. Procedures and technologies will be tested. Field offices will be opened. 

Additional staff will be hired. The final plans for how the count will 

be carried out will be drawn up. It is vitally important then that 

we get a strong management team in place as soon as possible, and 

I am pleased we are able to have this hearing, and hopefully to set 

3 

the stage for getting you confirmed before we proceed much further. 

The last decennial census cost, I am told, more than $6 billion. 

I understand that this one is projected to cost almost twice as 

much—$11.5 billion. Senator Coburn and I have heard testimony 

from GAO and others that this number may be outdated and that 

the final bill for the 2010 census is likely to be even higher. It 

could be billions of dollars higher if some of the technology that is 

being tested now, particularly the handheld computers that census 

takers will be using, do not work as planned or do not work at all. 

In addition, the Census Bureau will be under pressure in 2010 

to improve the accuracy of the census. During the past decennials, 

there has been a sense that a number of groups have been undercounted. In order to get the best, most accurate count, the Census 

Bureau will need to step up efforts to reach out to those groups 

that have historically been difficult to reach. 

The effectiveness of a number of government programs and the 

fairness of the redistricting process in the House of Representatives, except in States like Delaware, where we have only one U.S. 

Representative, depend on the effectiveness of these efforts. 

So if you are confirmed, Dr. Murdock, you will certainly have 

your work cut out for you, and I think you know that. Management 

issues and other challenges faced by the Census Bureau have 

raised doubts about our ability to conduct an affordable and accurate 2010 census. I look forward to hearing how you would use 

your background—actually, your distinguished background—and 

management skills to erase those doubts and to get the tough work 

ahead of us done, and done well. 

I almost said ‘‘Dr. Coburn.’’ I will say ‘‘Dr. Collins.’’ Senator Collins, please proceed. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CARPER. Welcome. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. When Federal marshals rode 

through northern Maine during the first Federal census in 1790, 

my native county of Aroostook had not yet been established, much 

less my home town of Caribou. And the few inhabitants of the region had little contact with Federal officials, much less Federal programs. Today, Aroostook County, like every other part of our country, is directly affected by the many uses of the data collected by 

the Census Bureau. 

Dr. Steven Murdock, the President’s nominee to be the next Census Director, has wide-ranging and relevant experience. He has 

been State demographer of Texas, a distinguished professor, as the 

Chairman has mentioned, a data center director, and a consultant. 

He will need that experience as well as determination and managerial skill to tackle the challenges facing the Census Bureau. 

Many of these challenges have been detailed in reports by the 

Government Accountability Office and other experts. In 2004, for 

example, the National Research Council issued a report from its 

Panel on Future Census Methods. That panel endorsed the Census 

Bureau’s overall plans for 2010, but warned of ‘‘unique risks and 

4 

challenges’’ to be overcome on a tight schedule. The panel particularly highlighted the use of new technology. 

The panel recommended, among other things, that the Census 

Bureau seek funding well in advance of need, exercise better management of project risks, and promote greater use of the Internet. 

A 2004 report by the Inspector General of the Department of Commerce raised similar concerns and took note of a ‘‘late start’’ on setting up an effective project management structure. 

It is, therefore, disappointing that the GAO’s most recent review 

of preparations for the 2010 census found that many of these very 

same problems persist. For example, the handheld computing devices that are supposed to be used to record and transmit data for 

the 2010 census are a concern. GAO staff observed field tests this 

spring and noted ‘‘a number of performance issues . . . such as 

slow and inconsistent data processing.’’ One census employee’s 

handheld device took 2 hours to verify 16 addresses at one location 

in North Carolina. The Census Bureau must ensure that this technology works properly to avoid a massive and urgent reversion to 

paper forms. 

The GAO has also noted that the Census Bureau is making ‘‘extensive use of contractors.’’ This Committee is well versed in the 

contracting process, having investigated costly debacles in both domestic and foreign contracts and having approved comprehensive 

contracting reform legislation. Added to these issues is an ever 

present problem, which the Chairman has already mentioned, of 

inaccurate counting, whether it is over- or undercounting. It is evident that the next Census Director will have his hands full. 

Finally, consider a matter of unexploited potential, and that is 

the Internet. Last year, Senator Coburn conducted a Subcommittee 

hearing on census costs and technology use. He noted that while 

Canada, Australia, and other countries collect census data via the 

Internet and while Americans can use it to file our taxes, the U.S. 

Census Bureau decided not to develop an Internet option for 2010. 

I look forward to hearing the nominee’s views on this matter. 

The calendar continues its relentless progress toward April 2010, 

leaving the Census Bureau with limited time and capacity to make 

any major changes in the current plans. I look forward to exploring 

the nominee’s thoughts on these key challenges and his recommendations. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CARPER. Senator Collins, thank you very much. 

I am told Dr. Murdock has filed responses to a biographical and 

financial questionnaire, answering pre-hearing questions submitted 

by the Committee, and had his financial statements reviewed by 

the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection, this information will be made part of the hearing record, with the exception of 

the financial data, which are on file and available for public inspection in the Committee’s offices. 

Committee rules require that all witnesses, Dr. Murdock, as you 

know, give their testimony under oath, and I am going to ask you, 

if you will, at this time to please stand and raise your right hand 

and then respond to the question I am about to ask you. Do you 

swear that the testimony you are about to give to the Committee 

will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 

help you, God? 

5 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Murdock appears in the Appendix on page 19. 

Mr. MURDOCK. I do. 

Senator CARPER. Please be seated. 

Dr. Murdock, we will invite you to proceed at this time with any 

opening statement you have, and you may want to start by just 

commenting on whether or not any of those nice things that Senator Hutchison said about you were true. Proceed as you wish. We 

are happy that you are here. Your entire statement will be made 

a part of the record. You can summarize as you wish. 

TESTIMONY OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK,1 TO BE DIRECTOR, U.S. 

CENSUS BUREAU, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE 

Mr. MURDOCK. Thank you, Senator Carper. 

Senator Carper, Ranking Member Collins, Senator Coburn, and 

distinguished Members of the Committee, it is a privilege for me 

to appear before you today as the nominee for the position of Director of the U.S. Bureau of the Census in the Department of Commerce. I am honored that President Bush has nominated me for 

this position, and I am also honored by and grateful to Senator 

Hutchison for her very kind introduction. 

I believe that the Census Bureau is among the best public data 

collection, analysis, and dissemination agencies in the world. It is 

responsible for the cost-effective collection, analysis, and reporting 

of data on the economic, demographic, and social characteristics of 

all the Nation’s inhabitants, while ensuring the confidentiality of 

respondents’ personal data and while maintaining the confidence 

and cooperation of the American people. 

This is a difficult and complex job. It is particularly challenging 

when we are approaching a decennial census that provides essential data for the operation of our democracy and, in the case of the 

2010 census, when it involves the use of a number of innovative 

methods and technologies. These challenges are also created by the 

fact that, in addition to the decennial census, the Census Bureau 

conducts an extensive array of surveys and other data collection efforts that are used by numerous agencies and other organizations, 

including the Federal Reserve, the U.S. Treasury, the Council of 

Economic Advisers, etc., to measure such critical factors as GDP, 

industrial production, producer prices, levels of employment, etc. 

Such data are essential for the effective and efficient operation of 

private as well as public sector entities across the Nation. 

Although the challenges will become more apparent to me when 

and if I am confirmed, several areas are clearly of critical importance and will be priority areas for me. 

The fiscal practices of the Census Bureau must be reviewed so 

as to ascertain any potential areas where performance, efficiency, 

and accountability might be improved. In particular, I plan to immediately begin a review of progress on the major contracts of the 

Census Bureau relative to the 2010 census to identify areas where 

there may be potential impacts on the costs and completeness of 

the 2010 census. 

The 2010 census is the most expensive data collection effort in 

the history of U.S. census taking. Taxpayers must obtain an adequate return on their investment, and the Census Bureau must 

6 

continue to implement those management practices that improve 

performance and efficiency while ensuring the completeness of the 

census. 

I will also review and evaluate the practices and procedures used 

to ensure the completeness of the 2010 census, the ACS, and other 

products from the Census Bureau and to ensure the confidentiality 

of respondents’ personal information. The census must be as complete as possible and must ensure that all persons from all backgrounds are included in the census. Analysis of the role of the partnership, communications, and other programs for improving the 

count, including the count of traditionally difficult to count groups, 

will be included in this examination. 

It is also the responsibility of the Census Bureau to ensure that 

the personal data of those who respond to its data collection efforts 

are protected against all forms of intrusion and disclosure. The continued monitoring of census programs to maintain the security of 

such information is critical. 

As noted in my discussions with several of you, I also believe it 

is essential that the Census Bureau carefully consider the options 

provided for responding to the decennial census, periodic surveys, 

and other data collection efforts and, where feasible and appropriate, provide respondents with a range of potential means of responding. 

I plan to also examine the design and content of data products. 

I have spent my career helping users to more effectively employ 

census and related data to address their needs. Census data must 

be useful to a wide variety of users, from Congress to professional 

statisticians, demographers, marketers, and thousands of governmental jurisdictions, to members of the public who may use such 

data to better understand their community or to assess the feasibility of starting their own small business. 

Procedures for ensuring the usability of census data must be continually reviewed. This must include an examination of American 

Community Survey data for small areas employing multi-year averages and an examination of Census Bureau estimates which are 

used for planning infrastructure and for resource allocation across 

the country. 

Numerous stakeholders in the census and the public as a whole 

must be adequately informed about the importance of ensuring a 

complete count in the census and of the need for their cooperation. 

Ultimately, the success or failure of a census, or any other largescale public data collection effort, is dependent on public cooperation and participation. The Director of the Census Bureau must 

play a key role in promoting the census to all the people of the 

United States, and I plan to participate in all appropriate ways in 

this important effort. 

If confirmed, these are only some of the many challenges that I 

recognize I will face, for the responsibilities of the Director of the 

U.S. Bureau of the Census are extensive and require careful coordination with numerous bodies, among the most important of which 

are the members of this Committee and Congress as a whole. I intend to reinforce a culture of sharing of appropriate information at 

the Census Bureau, and if confirmed, I commit to working with all 

of you, my colleagues in the Department of Commerce and the CenVerDate Aug 31 2005 13:45 Oct 08, 2008 Jkt 041446 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\41446.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
7 

sus Bureau, stakeholder groups, and other members of the public 

in ensuring that the U.S. Bureau of the Census continues to be an 

outstanding data collection, management, analysis, and dissemination agency, continues to be a prudent user of the public’s resources, and an excellent example of commitment to the best in 

public service. 

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I will 

be happy to answer any questions that you might have. 

Senator CARPER. Dr. Murdock, thank you for your statement. 

As Senator Collins knows, Committee rules require that I ask 

you at least three questions, and we will just start off the questioning with each of those. 

Is there anything you are aware of in your background that 

might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to 

which you have been nominated? 

Mr. MURDOCK. No. 

Senator CARPER. Do you know of anything, personal or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably 

discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been 

nominated? 

Mr. MURDOCK. No, I do not. 

Senator CARPER. Do you agree without reservation to respond to 

any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Yes, I do. 

Senator CARPER. All right. I think I have a pretty good understanding of this, having met with you and having reviewed your bio 

and your experience and your testimony. But the decennial census 

is, as you know, a massive undertaking, and it is going to require 

some extraordinary management skills to pull it off and to do it 

well. 

Just go over for us, if you would, your background, the aspects 

of your background that you think particularly well prepare you for 

a challenge of this nature. And what role would you take in ensuring that the decennial operations are meeting budget and performance goals? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, my background in census goes back a number of decades. I have worked very actively, for example, on the 

1980, 1990, and 2000 census activities in Texas. 

Senator CARPER. Could you describe those activities for us? 

Mr. MURDOCK. OK. Well, they included—we worked in the setup 

and in the distribution of LUCA materials, for example, in the 

2000 census. I have been the Federal-State Cooperative Program 

person for estimates and for objections for 20 of those years. And 

we have been the State Data Center for Texas for all of those 

years. 

Now, as a result of that, we have been involved in census activities in each of those decades, helping with the process of informing 

people of the need to respond to the census and assisting, for example, in the partnership program in 2000 in terms of identifying persons and areas that required concerted effort to ensure a better 

count. We have been involved with the assessment in a variety of 

ways of the accuracy and also the utility of estimates and projections, particularly estimates made by the Census Bureau. And we 

8 

have worked in Texas and in other areas with elected officials in 

helping them learn to use and employ census data to answer their 

needs. 

I testify frequently before the Texas Legislature on issues related 

to demographics, to the census, and to other materials, and I have 

been very heavily involved with the private sector and public sectors across Texas and other parts of the Southwest in terms of census issues and census products. 

Senator CARPER. All right. When I was elected to the U.S. Senate, I thought this was a job that I was pretty well prepared to assume. I had been governor of my State for a while. I had been a 

Congressman for 10 years. I testified before the House and the 

Senate in both of those roles. And I knew a lot of the folks that 

were here in the Senate, worked with them in one capacity or the 

other. But I found that when I got here, there was plenty I still 

needed to learn and, frankly, I still do. 

When you think of what lies ahead for you, if you are confirmed, 

what are some areas where you really need to go to school to better 

prepare yourself to assume these responsibilities and to be successful? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, I think it is humbling when you look at a 

process as complex as the Census Bureau, not only because it handles what we all know about the decennial census, but presents 

and collects data on a large number of enterprises and activities 

that are important for the economy as well as for our democracy. 

So I find it very humbling. 

Clearly, my background is such that I will need to become much 

more familiar in a way that I could not become before I am confirmed, or if I am confirmed, about the budgetary activities in the 

census, what is happening in terms of certain programs. Certainly 

the concerns you have mentioned, you are not the only one to mention those concerns to me, nor to appear in the popular press. 

The first thing I need to do is to get a handle on the decennial 

census, particularly the contracts that are out there, where they 

are, what is happening relative to them, and to identify what the 

impacts are on the budgetary issues. In other words, are we at a 

projectory that requires that we seek different funding or a different form of funding, and also to see what we may need to do in 

terms of preparing for alternatives? 

So I think the first thing is to look at the budget and to look at 

those contracts and to get to know where we stand—‘‘we’’ being the 

Census Bureau in this case—in each of those contract areas, and 

then to begin a very frank assessment of what we need to do to 

get from here to that complete census count, which we all hope to 

have at the end of 2010. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Thank you. 

As you know, the Census Bureau is hoping to have census takers 

following up with non-responders using handheld computers rather 

than paper. The hope, I believe, is that these computers will be 

more efficient than the old paper-based system and will cut down 

on costs that are associated with supplies and office space. I understand that these computers are also a key part of the Census Bureau’s cost containment strategy for 2010. However, the computers 

have not always worked as well as planned. 

9 

In addition, my staff has learned that an outside firm examining 

the handheld program has found that, because of poor project management on the part of the Census Bureau, the computers may not 

be a viable option for 2010. 

If confirmed, what steps will you take to put this program back 

on track? At what point do you think you might need to pull the 

plug, for example, on this approach and start making plans to go 

back to the old paper-based system that has been used in the past? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, I cannot know, I think, without getting involved, getting in the census, and looking in detail at information 

that I don’t now have access to just what the situation is relative 

to the handheld or other factors. What I can commit to you is that 

I will find out where we stand and will aggressively pursue the appropriate funding levels that we need to have a complete census. 

I cannot say at this point because I have not been privy to that information, could not be until I am confirmed, if I am confirmed, 

what the best stance will be or what actions we might need to take. 

But that is a first priority for me. 

Senator CARPER. All right. I am going to make a comparison 

here, and at first it may not seem to make much sense, but bear 

with me and it might. 

A lot of times in going around my State or the country, I run into 

people who have been married for a long time, and when I find 

folks who have been married for a long time, I always ask them: 

What is the secret to being married 40 or 50 or 60 years? I get 

some funny answers and some good ones, too. However, the one 

thread that seems to unite most of those answers, though, is the 

word ‘‘communication.’’ And I would just urge you—and I am sure 

you know this from your experience in Texas. One of the things 

that we least like around here is surprises, whether it is programs 

that do not work, technology that is not working, funds that are 

insufficient. The sooner we know those things, the easier it is for 

us to be helpful and responsive, and the less likely it is that we 

will be unhelpful and unresponsive. 

So I would just urge you, as you take up these reins—we want 

to have a good dialogue with you, an ongoing dialogue with you to 

understand what your challenges are, what you need, and how we 

can be helpful. 

Mr. MURDOCK. I will commit we will have a good communication 

to the extent that I can implement that. I think one of the things 

that people would say, elected officials would say about me in 

Texas, is that you didn’t necessarily like all the things that 

Murdock told you, but he always told you what he thought the 

truth was. And that will not change in this setting. 

Senator CARPER. Well, that is good. Did you have anybody here 

that you wanted to introduce, any guests or any special members 

of your family? 

Mr. MURDOCK. No, I do not. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Is there anybody in the audience you 

would just like to randomly pick out? [Laughter.] 

Mr. MURDOCK. No. I wish my wife was here. She broke her leg 

about 6 weeks ago and could not attend. But she, of course, is important to this whole process and has been a very big supporter of 

me for a long time. 

10 

Senator CARPER. Does she know you are here? 

Mr. MURDOCK. She knows I am here. [Laughter.] 

Senator CARPER. And there is no relationship between the broken leg and the fact you have been nominated for—— 

Mr. MURDOCK. No. 

Senator CARPER. OK. That is good. Senator Collins. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. Murdock, one of the keys to encouraging compliance with the 

census is assuring individuals that their personal information that 

they are providing is going to be safeguarded. In 2006, the Department of Commerce reported to Congress that some 672 laptop computers were missing from the Census Bureau, and some of these 

computers contained personally identifiable information. Then in 

April 2007, it was disclosed that the Census Bureau had mistakenly posted personal data online. 

What measures will you take to ensure that all census data that 

contains personal or identifying information are protected and to 

keep laptops as well as other equipment used to collect data—for 

example, these new handheld devices that we are talking about, 

how will you ensure that they are safe and that there are not these 

kinds of security breaches that really undermine public confidence 

in the census? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, I think there are a number of things that 

are being done from the public record in terms of the Census Bureau, in terms of changing the events that led to these unfortunate 

circumstances. They have a fairly advanced property management 

system in place that provides both a paper and a computerized system for keeping track of laptops, knowing where they are, who has 

them, and under what conditions. The computers now are increasingly encrypted so that if I did obtain a copy of a computer of some 

form, I could not discern what the identification—or the information was without the code, so to speak. And, increasingly, as I look 

toward the handhelds, one of the features of that will be that the 

data will be transmitted to the data collection centers and then will 

be erased from those handhelds. So these are a number of things 

that are critical in terms of ensuring greater security of people’s 

personal information. 

I see no higher priority than maintaining that confidential information because, as I said in my opening statement, the reality of 

it is that the census is successful if the American people trust us, 

if they have confidence in us. And each time one of these things 

occurs, a little bit of that confidence slips away. 

So I will do my best to ensure that the confidentiality of people’s 

personal information is maintained. 

Senator COLLINS. Senator Carper mentioned the problems with 

some of the contracts that the Census Bureau is involved with. Let 

me first ask you a broader philosophical question. According to a 

GAO report issued last year, as much as 17 percent of the more 

than $11 billion that the census is projected to cost is going to be 

spent on seven major contracts. This is the most extensive use of 

contractors in the Census Bureau’s history. 

Do you think that the Census Bureau relies too heavily on outside contractors to accomplish mission-critical work? 

11 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, again, I would suggest I cannot know 

whether it is too much or too little until I have looked at it in 

greater detail. I think what you are looking at in several of these 

areas are in the areas of IT, that is, technology, and it is very difficult for any public entity—and I have seen this at State levels 

and others—to maintain the kind of up-to-date staff and to be able 

to support, frankly, be able to afford salaries for the kind of staff 

that is necessary to keep at the cutting edge. So I would expect 

that if the Census Bureau is like other agencies, particularly in 

these areas, you will find more contracting. 

I think contracting is justified or unjustified depending on whether it is the most efficient and effective way to accomplish the goals 

of the organization. And this is something, as I have indicated previously, that I will look into, if and when I am confirmed, immediately in that confirmation. 

Senator COLLINS. Are you familiar with a very new GAO report 

that was issued just last week, on December 11, that took a look 

at some of these key systems acquisition contracts? 

Mr. MURDOCK. In general terms, but I haven’t had a chance to 

look at it in detail. 

Senator COLLINS. Let me just point out that the GAO projects 

that there is going to be an $18 million cost overrun by December 

of next year in one of the key contracts, and that is obviously of 

concern to me. Even if it is due to changing requirements, that is 

of concern because that means that the requirements for the contract were not sufficiently thought through in the first place. 

Are you going to personally review contracts to see if they are 

being effectively managed? How concerned are you about an $18 

million cost overrun? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, I am very concerned about cost overruns because we are using the funds of the American people, and I think 

we need to be very clear and very careful in how we use those 

funds. 

I really cannot evaluate at this point what all the causes are for 

that particular sum. I cannot even, frankly, know whether that is, 

in fact, an accurate estimate or not. But I will certainly look into 

it, if and when I am confirmed, because cost management is effective. We know that obtaining a complete count is critical. It is required by our Constitution. It is really one of the hallmarks of our 

democracy. So it is very important to get that. But at the same 

time, we want to obtain such information, being as cost sensitive 

and efficient as we possibly can. And I think we need to make sure 

that we are looking at all those contracts. 

I am not an attorney, but I will certainly look at those as the Director and look at what the products are and what the deliverables 

are and what the time frames are, etc. 

Senator COLLINS. When we have a census that is projected to 

cost double what the last census cost, I for one want to see a quantum leap in solving a lot of problems and improving the accuracy 

and making sure that the problems with undercounting and overcounting are being resolved. Otherwise, I am going to wonder how 

the cost escalated by that amount. I realize that a decade is quite 

a long time, but a doubling of the cost ought to produce some quanVerDate Aug 31 2005 13:45 Oct 08, 2008 Jkt 041446 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\41446.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
12 

tifiable benefits to the American people and be translated into better accuracy. 

I know my time has expired, and I do have to go on to another 

event. Mr. Chairman, I am just going to ask if I could submit for 

the record a question on undercounting, a question on human resources, and also a question on an issue that I know is of concern 

to you and Senator Coburn on the use of the Internet and the fact 

that other countries have done that. So thank you very much. 

Senator CARPER. You bet. All those questions are in order. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you, and thank you for joining us. 

I want to return to a point that has already been made earlier, 

but I wanted just to revisit it, if I could, and the theme is project 

management at the Census Bureau. Senator Coburn and I have 

heard testimony at our oversight hearings that the Census Bureau 

does not have enough staff on hand with the skills and the backgrounds necessary to effectively manage the kind of large-scale IT 

projects like the handheld computers that the Census Bureau 

hopes to use in 2010. 

And let me just say we have heard a lot of testimony from other 

agencies that they do not have the staff on hand with the kind of 

skills and backgrounds necessary for them to manage their largescale IT programs either. 

But if confirmed, how would you address these alleged shortcomings with respect to having the staff on board with the kinds 

of skills and background necessary to manage large-scale IT 

projects? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, obviously, it would be premature for me to 

suggest the extent to which there may be difficulties, but certainly 

as we look at something as critical as the census and the census 

other products, we have to obtain the expertise that we need in 

order to manage funds and to manage contracts. Whether that is 

best done by hiring additional people or by doing it on a contractual basis or doing it some other way, it is not possible for me to 

discern at this point, but it must be done. And I commit to you that 

we will do our best to make sure that we are managing contracts 

appropriately. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Senator Collins said this just before 

she was leaving. She was talking about the increase in the projected cost of the census going from about $6 billion in 2000 to 

roughly twice that in 2010. I will tell you, when I first heard those 

numbers, I was shocked. I was shocked because our technology is 

so much better now than it even was 7, 8 years ago, and I presume 

it is going to be better still by 2010. And while we have more people to count, I was surprised to find that the cost—I thought it 

might go up marginally, but given the advances of technology, I 

never imagined an almost 100-percent increase in projected cost. 

Should I be surprised? Why or why not? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, there are a number of factors that obviously 

are impacting the census. One is certainly that we have more 

people. We have a more diverse population speaking multiple languages. We have populations that are living in a variety of settings, if you will, in the United States. So there are lots of complexities to the American population that were, frankly, less there in 

13 

1980 or 1990 or even in 2000. And as you get complexity in the 

characteristics of your population, thereby the difficulty in counting 

and ensuring that everyone responds to the census increases. 

I really cannot evaluate at this point whether that is a level of 

growth that we should have expected, but certainly there are factors simply in what has happened to our population that have increased the costs of counting that population. 

Senator CARPER. So the long and short of it is I should not have 

been so surprised. 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, I cannot tell you what you should be, Senator, but I think that it is a substantial growth in the cost. We 

need to make sure that it is appropriate and that we are getting 

our money’s worth out of our programs. 

Senator CARPER. What do you suppose we could expect for all 

that extra money? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, we are doing a number of things. The reengineered census includes, for example, the American Community 

Survey. One of the problems we have had with census data until 

this period of time that we are looking at as we come to the 2010 

census is that we would ask data on socioeconomic characteristics 

at the decennial year, and then each year thereafter the data became less accurate because things had changed. So, in 1995, we 

were still using 1990 census data for income and education, etc. 

What we have with the new re-engineered census is annual data 

that will be available for areas of all sizes on things like income, 

education, occupational change, etc., things that will help us keep 

a better measurement of what is happening in terms of the American society and the American people. 

So we are getting data that we have always wanted in order to 

more effectively chart the situation, the conditions of the American 

population. So it is not like we are getting the same products. We 

are getting substantially improved products and increased products 

that should help you in the Congress as you govern our population 

and the public and the private sector in a variety of ways. 

So we are getting more—in addition to the impacts of inflation 

and diversity and so forth of the population, so you are getting a 

better product, a more frequent product from this particular census 

process. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Well, thank you for that. 

Senator Collins said, I think, just as she was leaving, that she 

wanted to leave a couple of questions. I think maybe one of them 

dealt with the issue I am about to raise, and that is the Internet. 

It turns out I just was handed a note by our staff that Senator 

Coburn is not going to be able to join us today, which is too bad 

because he has a great deal of interest in this issue, as do I. 

But as you know, the Census Bureau decided recently not to include the Internet as a response option for the 2010 census. Again, 

I was surprised. If somebody had asked me a year or two out of 

the likelihood of us not relying on the Internet, I would have not 

believed it. But I understand that this decision came despite the 

fact that offering an online option would not add to the total cost 

in any significant way. 

Do you think that an online response option would improve census response rates? Do you think that it would reduce the amount 

14 

of time and money spent to follow up with households that do not 

respond to the initial census mailing? And if confirmed, would you 

commit to looking into whether the Internet can, in fact, be an option in 2010? I would be happy to repeat those if you would like. 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, as you know, we discussed this when I met 

with you. I think we must ultimately have an Internet option 

among several other options for responding to census materials. I 

commit to you that we can look into this, we will look into this for 

census activities. It may not be possible given how far along we are 

in terms of the 2010 census process to do anything in regard to it 

at this point in time, but I do believe we must have it in the long 

run. 

The Census Bureau has made some tests of Internet options, and 

I think you are aware of some of those. They did not find, according 

to the reports that I have looked at, public reports, they did not 

find a significant increase or improvement in response rates as a 

result of the use of the Internet. And, very importantly—and I 

think this must be a critical element as we evaluate the potential 

use of the Internet—they had substantial concerns about the protection of data and personal data as a result of hacking, phishing, 

and other kinds of processes. 

As I said, I think we need to have that and a number of other 

options eventually, but we cannot do it until we are sure that we 

can protect the confidentiality of such data, and I do commit that 

we will evaluate that option again and look at it particularly for 

census operations down the road. 

Senator CARPER. A lot of folks in my State file their tax returns 

electronically. A lot of people nationally file their Federal tax returns electronically, both on the personal side and the corporate 

side. It is hard to imagine information that is more sensitive than 

that which we file with the Delaware Division of Revenue or with 

the IRS. It just seems strange to me that while we can do that and 

have been doing that for a number of years, we are unable or 

maybe unwilling to tackle a similar use of the Internet on this 

front. 

As it turns out, in filing taxes, those who do it actually prefer 

it to having to file the old way. I was reading some survey results 

just this week about people’s satisfaction, customers’ satisfaction 

with services provided by the government. And they reported that 

the customer satisfaction with the IRS was actually up, I think to 

about 55 percent. And for those who file electronically, the customer satisfaction was about 75 or 80 percent. 

Mr. MURDOCK. That is exactly why I believe we must have that 

option ultimately in terms of one option for responding to the census. It clearly cannot be the only option, and I cannot at this point, 

until and if I am confirmed and look at the materials, commit to 

any particular time frame or inclusion of any particular products. 

But it seems clear to me that we have to get there, and I commit 

that we will work with you and your staffs and others in moving 

that way. 

Senator CARPER. I will just forewarn you, and I am sure you 

have already met with Senator Coburn and talked with him. 

Mr. MURDOCK. Yes. 

15 

Senator CARPER. My guess is this probably came up in your conversation. 

Mr. MURDOCK. Yes, it did. 

Senator CARPER. When you are confirmed—and I think you will 

be—and have the opportunity to lead this agency in the years 

ahead, you can just tell the folks that will be working with you and 

for you that there are a couple of folks in Congress, Democrats and 

Republicans, who are real interested and who are going to be leaning on you hard to make sure that you keep the commitments that 

you have made. Sometimes we do not like to change things. We are 

comfortable with the way we have always done things, and that 

has got to change. And I respect the fact that you are prepared to 

use these handheld computers—I say ‘‘you’’—the Census Bureau is 

prepared to use the handheld computers, but we think you can do 

more and better. 

When I was governor and very involved in the National Governors Association, we always talked about the States as laboratories of democracy. If we were looking to do something better on 

education or welfare reform or transportation, we would always 

look to other States to see what they had done, and then we would 

steal their ideas and never give them credit. But in terms of just 

looking at your post as demographer of Texas and all your work in 

Texas, is there anything that you can point to where you have relied on technology or the Internet, harnessing it in ways that might 

help or might inform what you do as Director of the Census? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, certainly we have found ourselves, as the 

State Data Center, going from an entity where we answered phone 

calls and we sent out xeroxed materials to a situation where nearly 

everyone contacts us through the Internet. The vast amount of our 

data is distributed as a result of web-based activities, and it has 

totally changed the nature of what we want in people. For example, 

we now ensure that everybody—— 

Senator CARPER. When you say ‘‘what we want in people,’’ employees? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Meaning in terms of skills, for example, so that 

State Data Center people who used to be the first point of response 

for the public, they needed to know how to find census data, and 

then they needed to be good in terms of running runs and so forth 

to provide it. Now we need people who are good at using the Internet and are good at locating data and helping people find that customized data that they usually want. 

One of the things that has happened with the increase in technology is that people want more specific information. They are no 

longer happy with information that is State level if they really 

want county level, and then county level if they really want subareas of counties. 

So we, certainly in Texas, grew accustomed to getting more specific as a result of using technology, and I see no reversal of that. 

We are going to increasingly rely on those kinds of ways of disseminating information. 

Senator CARPER. All right. I know we have discussed this at an 

earlier hearing—not you and I, but others before us. We have 

talked about different countries, and I presume that most of the 

countries of the world, certainly the major countries of the world, 

16 

conduct a census from time to time. And my guess is that some of 

them actually figured out how to use the Internet effectively and 

how to ward off the hackers. Am I mistaken? Or has somebody already invented this wheel? 

Mr. MURDOCK. I am not an expert on censuses done by other 

countries, but certainly there are countries—Canada and Australia, 

for example, are examples of countries that have used the Internet 

as at least part of their response. 

Now, not in all cases did they necessarily improve response rates, 

as I understand it, but certainly looking into other entities’ use of 

these kinds of information, providing sources, is one of the things 

that we will do. 

Senator CARPER. In my State of Delaware, our State motto is, ‘‘It 

is good being first,’’ and the reason why that is our State motto is 

because we were the first State to ratify the Constitution. On December 7, 1787—220 years ago almost to the day—Delaware ratified the Constitution, and for one whole week we were the entire 

United States of America. So that is our motto: ‘‘It is good to be 

first.’’ 

Sometimes there are some things, though, you do not want to be 

first in, and using the Internet to actually do a part or all of your 

census may be one of those things. But it is good that other countries have gone first. You mentioned a couple of them. And we can 

learn from them what they did well and what they did not do so 

well, and their experiences, good or bad, can help to inform us, and 

particularly the Census Bureau, as we figure out how to use the 

Internet for a part of the census that is coming up. And I would 

just urge us to do that. 

I have at least one more question, and then I think we will let 

you escape. Again, this has been touched upon already, but I want 

to come back to it one more time. 

When census time comes around, there is always discussion of 

the groups out there that in the past have been undercounted. Senator Collins alluded to that. Could you just take a minute or so to 

discuss some of the groups that have historically been undercounted? And what do you think are some of the better strategies 

for getting them counted this time? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, obviously, if you look at censuses as long as 

we have been doing evaluations of the accuracy of the count, certain populations have been repeatedly undercounted. These include 

minority populations—African Americans, Hispanics, other groups 

as well. It includes disproportionately young adults versus older— 

more middle-aged and older persons. This included—more likely to 

exclude, rather, people in rental housing, etc. So we have seen a 

set of percentages for a long time that have indicated that certain 

groups are more likely to be missed. 

As I look at the 2010 census, drawing on the experience from the 

2000 census, clearly some of the things that we will do to address 

that, which I think are in place or will soon be in place and are 

very important, is the partnership program. I watched this in 

Texas, in areas like the colonias of Texas, where it was very difficult to obtain information for a variety of reasons, and by getting 

local people, people who were parts of those communities as memVerDate Aug 31 2005 13:45 Oct 08, 2008 Jkt 041446 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\41446.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
17 

bers of the partnership organizations, we were able to get information that had been missed by the census in previous periods. 

So I think a strong partnership program is very critical, and that 

program is one that, as you know, has been funded by Congress in 

a variety of ways. 

In addition, as you know, the census is involved in a very active 

advertising campaign and communication program. It has very active advisory groups that it draws on to provide contacts to critical 

communities that have been among those that have been undercounted. It is a very important area. We, as Americans, want as 

complete a count of everyone as we can possibly get, and we have 

to take those actions that will get us there. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you. The point you just made about the 

partnerships, that just makes a whole lot of sense, and the idea of 

reaching into those communities that are undercounted and drawing from those folks who can come forward and work with the Census Bureau to reduce the undercounts is, I think, a wise thing to 

do. 

Those are my questions for today. As Senator Collins suggested, 

she had a couple of other questions she is going to submit for the 

record. 

Let me just ask before we wrap it up here, is there anything else 

that you would like to say that maybe during the course of our conversation has come to mind that you would like to—maybe just to 

get it off your chest? 

Mr. MURDOCK. Well, the only thing that I would like—— 

Senator CARPER. Maybe you are having second thoughts about 

this job. I do not know. [Laughter.] 

Mr. MURDOCK. The only thing that I would like to commit again 

to you is that I will look forward to working with Congress to work 

together to address these issues that are of concern not only to you 

in Congress but those people that you represent. And so I just want 

to commit again to working with you to get us the best possible 

census we can possibly obtain. 

Senator CARPER. I welcome that comment to close with. What I 

try to do around here is just to get things done and to get people 

to work together toward that end. In my old job as governor, you 

had to get stuff done. You had to produce, you had to show results, 

and if you did not, folks would fire you and hire somebody else. 

And I describe myself as a ‘‘recovering governor,’’ and among the 

challenges that we face as a Nation, one of the biggest ones is getting the census done and getting it done right. And it is going to 

take all of us pulling together and making sure that it happens. We 

have an obligation to conduct oversight and, if you will, hold the 

feet of different agencies within the Executive Branch to the fire, 

and we will do that. But we will try to do that always in a constructive way. 

Again, I want to thank you for your willingness to serve. We 

thank you for joining us today, for responding to our questions, 

and, I believe, having responded to other questions that have been 

posed to you by us in private meetings or in our offices or in response to questions that have been posed to you by members of our 

staff, our Committee and Subcommittee staffs. 

18 

Without objection, the hearing record will remain open until the 

close of business today for the submission of any additional statements and questions. And, with that, this hearing is adjourned. 

Thank you all and happy holidays. 

Mr. MURDOCK. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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