1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3



### Public Hearing on 4



### Proposed Clean Power Plan for 5


### Existing Power Plants 6

7

8

9



### 9 : 0 0 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. 10



### Friday, August 1, 2014 11

12



### Room A 13



### William S. Moorhead Federal Building 14


### 1000 Liberty Avenue 15



### Room 1310 16



### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvan ia 15222 17

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### EPA PANEL 1: 1



### TOM POWERS, Panel 1 Chair; and 2



### Senior Policy Advisor, 3



### Office of Air and Radiation 4



### DEBRA DALCHER, 5



### Office of Air Quali ty Planning and Standards 6



### MEG VICTOR 7


### ANDREW KREIDER, Acting Associate Director

, 8



### Office r of Permits a nd Air Toxics 9

10

11



### EPA PANEL 2: 12



### DIANA ESHER, Panel 2 Chair; and Director

, 13



### Mid

- Atlantic Air Protection 14



### MICHAEL GORDON, 15



### Office of P ermits and Toxics, Region 3 16



### DAVE ARNOLD, Deputy Director

, 17



### Mid

- Atl antic Air Protection 18

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### EPA PANEL 3: 1



### MIKE HERBER, Pa nel 3 Chair 2



### DIA NA ESHER, Director, 3



### Mid

- Atlantic Air Protection 4



### DEBRA DALCHER, 5


### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 6

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### MIKE PAYTON, 3



### United Min e Workers of America 18 4



### LEVI MCBEE, 5



### United Mine Workers of America 21 6



### MICHAEL PHILLIPPI, 7



### United Mine Workers of America 24 8



### JAMES FREDERICK, 9



### United Mine Workers of America 27 10



### ASHLEY HARTER, 11



### United Mine Workers of America 30 12



### MITCHELL HESCOX, 13



### Resident of Pennsylvania 34 14



### JESSIE CARR, 15


### University of Pittsburgh 40 16



### LOU OTTO, 17



### United Mine Workers of America 43 18



### RICH KULICK
, 19



### United Mine Workers of America 47 20



### HAROLD ERDOS, 21



### United Mine Workers of America 50 22

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### JOHN KOCHANOWSKI, 3



### IBEW Local Union 712 53 4



### NILA GOUDY, 5



### United Mine Workers of America 59 6



### MEL PACKER, 7



### Marcellus Protest 62 8



### JEREMY WASHINGTON, 9



### Resident of Michigan 68 10



### ERIC RITTER, 11


### Lake Erie Energy Development Cor poration 70 12



### AUL CAMERON, 13



### IBEW Local 459 75 14



### TIMOTHY BARR, 15



### Unaffiliated Citizen 80 16



### DOUGLAS UNT, 17


### Pennsylvania Interfaith Power and Light 83 18



### DORCAS EVANS

- MILLER, 19



### Resident of Pennsylvania 88 20



### DEB EUTSLER, 21



### R esident of Pennsylvania 90 22

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### C O N T E N T S (c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### JEFF KELLEY, 3



### Vindex Energy Corporation 95 4



### DON VICKERS, 5



### Arch Coal 100 6



### DENISE GARROTT 104 7



### DONNA ZWIGART, 8



### St. Francis of the Neumann Communities 1 09 9



### SHARI SHAPIRO, 10



### International Code Council 112 11



### JAY BUTERA, 12



### Resident of Pennsylvania 120 13



### JACQUELINE PATTERSON 125 14



### KIMBERLY WILLIAMS 1 32 15



### KEVIN LUSKY, 16



### Resident of Pennsylvania 1 34 17



### ANDREW GRANDE, 18



### Resident of Rhode Island 136 19



### BILL PRICE, 20



### Sierra Club 141 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### TOM CLARKE, 3



### Senior Policy Advisor, DEP, West Virginia 150 4



### GREG VOGT, 5



### IBEW Local 5 157 6



### JEFFREY MILLER, 7



### IBEW Local 5 160 8



### RICHARD DUNKEL, 9



### IBEW Local 5 164 10



### DAN CHU, 11



### Sierra Club 168 12



### DAVID MCKENNA 173 13



### ROSALIE FINKELSTEIN 175 14



### BRET SMITH, 15



### American Iron and Steel Institute 180 16



### MARLENE VAN ES 187 17



### ETTA ALBRIGHT 1 91 18



### MATTHEW NEZBETH, 19



### Resident of Pennsylvania 196 20



### CHRISTOPHER BURK, 21



### Electric Reliability Coordinating Council 201 22

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### DONNA KOPNITSKY 208 3



### JOHN DETWILER 212 4



### KEVIN WHALEN 218 5



### MICHAEL CASHIN, 6



### Minnesota Power, ALLETE 223 7



### DUSTIN WHITE, 8



### Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition 228 9



### MIKE FOLEY, 10



### Ohio State Representative 234 11



### EVAN ENDRUS, 12



### Resident of Pennsylvania 241 13



### GARY KIER 244 14



### KEVIN SHEEN, 15


### Alliance for Clean Energy in New York 249 16



### KEVIN SHEEN, 17



### QSPA Wind 255 18



### DAN LITCHFIELD, 19



### Iberdrola Renewables 2 59 20



### CHELSEA HOLMES 263 21

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### PAUL POKROWKA, 3



### Smart Transportation Division 265 4



### JOHN KISSEL, 5



### Resident of Missouri 270 6



### SHANELLE SMITH, 7



### Emerald Cities Cleveland 274 8



### CHRISTOPHER SEYMOUR, 9



### Resident of Pennsylvania 278 10



### PHILLIP VAN DAMME, 11



### Resident of Ohio 283 12



### KAREN MELTON 286 13



### RUSSELL GOLMAN, 14


### Resident of Pennsylvania 290 15



### RON SOLE NTANA, 16



### Penn sylvania Solar Energy Industries 17



### Associat ion, Mid

- Atlantic Solar Energies 18



### Association, National Solar Energy 19



### Industry ' s Association 29 3 20



### STAN KABALA, 21



### Bayer School Environmental Sciences 298 22

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### C O N T E N T S (c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### DORIS MARLIN 304 3



### JAN MILBURN, 4


### Resident of Pennsylvania 308 5



### JACK MI LBURN, 6



### Resident of Pennsylvania 315 7



### HEATHER LANGELAN D 320 8



### NICKY SHEETS, 9



### Center for the Urban Environment 324 10



### MIKE CAREY, 11


### Murray Energy Corporation 333 12



### HAROLD HOEM, 13



### Montana Elders for a Livable Tomorrow 338 14



### JOHN PARKER

- BLIER, 15



### Resident of Pennsylvania 345 16



### LAUREN STALTER 350 17



### BRETT PHILLIPS 353 18



### GWEN CHUTE, 19



### Sierra Club 357 20



### EDWARD CHUTE, 21



### Resident of Pennsylvania 361 22

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### ADRIENNE KALTMAN, 3



### Resident of Florida 367 4



### MELISSA MCSWIGAN, 5


### Resident of Pennsylvania 3 72 6



### BRAD MACAULAY, 7


### Resident of Pennsy lvania 374 8



### CLAIRE MATWAY, 9



### Resident of Pennsylvania 378 10



### PAULA BROOKS, 11


### County Commissioner, Franklin County, Ohio 3 83 12



### EVA RESNICK

- DAY, 13



### Resident of Pennsylvania 388 14



### DAN SLEIGEL, 15



### Resident of Pen nsylvania 392 16



### MONICA MADAUS, 17


### Resident of Pennsylvania 398 18



### VALESSA SOUTER

- KLINE 401 19



### PETER STALTER 405 20



### DAN SLEIGEL, 21



### Resident of Pennsylvania 408 22

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1


### MR. POWERS: Good morning, everybody. I 2



### think we ' ll start right on time here, and there 3



### are a lot of people that would like to 4


### participate, so we ' ll make good use of the time. 5


### One scheduling sort of thing. One of the 6



### Regiona l Administrators

-- EPA ' s Regional 7



### Administrator, Shawn Garvin, wants to welcome 8



### everybody. He is welcoming the other room 9



### first

-- no. Diana, what ' s he doing? Right, so 10



### we ' re going to start. 11


### But in order not to lose any time waiting 12



### for him, we ' re going to start and then we ' ll take 13



### a brief stop and just make a few welcoming 14



### remarks when he gets here. 15


### My name is Tom Powers, I ' m Senior Policy 16



### Advisor to the Air office and Headquarters at EPA 17


### in Washington. I ' m one of the Chairs of today ' s 18



### Public H earing. 19



### With me on my right are Debra Dalcher. 20



### On my left, Meg Victor will be the hearing panel 21



### for this morning. 22

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### We ' re here today to listen your comments 1


### on two proposed rules to reduce carbon pollution 2



### from power plants in the U.S. EPA announced 3



### th ese proposed rules on June 2nd of this year. 4



### As you probably read, power plants are 5


### the largest source of carbon pollution in the 6



### U.S., accounting for roughly a third of all 7


### domestic greenhouse gas emissions. 8



### The first rule is EPA ' s proposed Clean 9



### Powe r Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 10



### proposal consists of two main parts; state 11


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 12



### power plants and guidelines to help states 13



### develop their plans for meeting those goals. 14


### The proposal is intended to give state s 15


### flexibility in determining how to meet their 16



### goals. States can choose what goes into their 17



### plans that show how they ' ll achieve them by the 18



### target date of 2030. 19



### The second rule we ' re going to comment on 20



### is EPA ' s Proposed Rule to Address Carbon Dioxide 21



### E missions from Modified and Reconstruted Power 22

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### Plants. This rule would set emission limits for 1


### two groups of plants; those that make physical or 2



### operational changes that increase the plant ' s 3



### maximum achievable hourly rate of emissions, and 4



### those that repla ce components to such an extent 5



### that the new components exceed 50 percent of the 6



### capital cost of a brand new comparable facility. 7


### If you would like more details on either 8



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 9



### available near the registration desk downstairs, 10



### and at least yesterday there were sheets in the 11


### back of the hearing rooms as well. 12



### Today ' s hearing is the final day of four 13



### Public Hearings that we are holding across the 14


### country this week. There were hearings in 15



### Atlanta, and Denver and Washi ngton D.C. earlier. 16



### Today is the second day of our two

- day hearing in 17


### Pittsburgh. 18



### We have had tremendous interest in these 19



### hearings. I want to thank all of you for taking 20



### time out of your day to join us and either listen 21



### or to share your comments. We h ave a lot of 22

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### people signed up to speak. We want to hear from 1



### all of them, so we ' re going to try to run things 2



### as smoothly as we can. 3



### A few ground rules. Please be sure you 4


### checked in at the registration desk downstairs 5


### even if you ' re not planning to sp eak. If you did 6



### sign up to speak online or ahead of time, please 7



### let us know that you ' re here so we can be sure we 8



### have your name on one of these cards that give me 9



### the order of speakers that are coming up. 10



### Also, there is a room letter for each of 11



### the tw o hearing rooms, so we ' re in Room A. If 12



### you happen to be targeted for Room B, this would 13



### be a good time to find Room B, which is two 14



### floors up on the 15th floor. 15


### Just for the mechanics of today, I ' ll 16



### call speakers up in pairs. When your name is 17



### called p lease come up to the speaker table over 18



### here. I will try to give people a head ' s up and 19



### let you know who ' s on deck, so who ' s coming up 20



### after the two in front of us. 21



### It ' s very helpful if you could state your 22

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### name and spell it for the court reporter. We ' re 1


### having the hearings transcribed. There will be a 2



### public record, we try to get everybody ' s name 3



### right. 4


### Everybody will get five minutes to speak. 5


### There will be a light right here. Meg is in 6



### charge of the light. It ' s a green light at the 7



### bottom for th e first four minutes. And then the 8



### fourth minute it turns yellow, so you know you ' re 9



### sort of coming up to five. At five there ' s a 10



### little buzzer and a red light. 11



### I ' m not going to sort of cut anybody off 12



### in mid

- sentence, but it certainly is the case 13



### that when there are a lot of people wanting to 14


### speak, it ' s helpful for everybody if everybody 15



### sort of tries to stick to that five minutes, and 16



### I ' ll start coughing or stand up or something if 17


### people go on much past five. 18



### We ' re happy to take written comments if 19



### you have a copy of your statement. We ' re also 20



### accepting written comments until October 16th. 21



### Everything that people write gets read and paid 22

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### just as much attention to as any oral testimony, 1


### so if you don ' t get to make all of your points in 2



### the five minut es you ' ve got, feel free to give us 3



### a longer statement in writing, we will be sure to 4



### take it into account. 5


### We are scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 6



### tonight. Last night we had a number of people 7


### signed up, but it turned out to be a little 8



### thinner once we g ot to that time period, so we 9



### wrapped it at 7:45, but there will be a session 10



### this evening. 11



### We ' ll take a couple different breaks, one 12



### for lunch at noon until one, or possibly 12:10 or 13



### so. We ' ll get as many people in as we can this 14


### morning. And then anot her dinner break from 5:00 15



### to 6:00. 16



### Occasionally, either I or my other panel 17


### members may have a question for a speaker that we 18



### may ask you as a clarifying sort of thing, but 19



### mostly we ' re here to listen to you. So the vast 20



### majority of the time will be dev oted to hearing 21



### from you. 22

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### And I guess the last thing I ' d say, sort 1


### of the obvious, we appreciate everybody ' s respect 2



### for each other. It ' s helpful not to have either 3



### applause, boos, sort of audience participation. 4



### We ' re very much interested in trying to keep 5


### these moving, so we encourage your respectful 6



### listening to your colleagues who are testifying. 7



### With that, it ' s time to get started. The 8



### first speaker is Mike Payton, and with him on the 9



### panel is Levi McBee. 10



### MR. PAYTON: Good morning. My name is 11



### Mi ke Payton, P

- a

- y

- t

- o

- n. I live in Reedsville, 12



### West Virginia. I ' m a member of UMWA Local Union 13



### 9909 and I work at Murray America Energy at the 14


### Marion County coal mine. 15



### While I understand that the EPA ' s motive 16



### in shutting down coal fired in favor of clean er 17


### methods of energy output in the U.S., with the 18



### hope

-- the hope

-- that this will encourage 19



### other countries to do the same. I do not believe 20



### that this is an option that will be successful 21



### long term. 22

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### First of all, there is no hard evidence 1



### to back up the claim that countries that are 2



### still relying heavily or primarily on the use of 3



### coal fired power plants will minimize, stop or 4


### change their current methods simply because that 5


### is what is happening in the United States. 6



### These countries are going to con tinue to 7



### use the methods that work for them regardless of 8



### what the EPA mandates in this country. It is 9



### naive to think that our influence in this 10



### particular matter will cause global change. 11


### Second, and more immediately important to 12



### myself and others in si milar positions, pertains 13



### to the loss of income that I and many others will 14



### suffer if our mines are shut down. This will, of 15


### course, affect myself and my family. 16



### However, the consequences will 17


### undoubtedly reach much farther than that if I 18



### lose my job, and therefore have no income. I 19



### will not have the resources to make purchases at 20



### the grocery store or the mall, or at other 21



### companies that rely on the regular patronage of 22

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### customers like myself in order to stay in 1



### business. 2



### In my town and many other area s, coal 3



### mining is a family business. With so many 4


### individuals without jobs, with so many entire 5


### families and community members unable to put 6



### money back into the market, my entire community 7


### will suffer economically. 8



### Unfortunately, or ultimately, I believe 9



### that this decision will do much more harm than 10



### good, and I ask the EPA, consider this and think 11


### carefully about the disastrous results that could 12



### affect much more than just a few thousand jobs. 13



### This is a decision that will centrally 14


### change the economic d ynamics of entire regions of 15


### the country in a massive and negative way. In a 16



### region where coal mining is prevalent and where 17


### coal mining jobs are numerous and widespread, 18



### closing down these mines will have an extensive 19



### and very damaging effect that reache s much 20



### farther than just the coal miners and their 21



### families. 22

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### Is it worth it to put this plan into 1


### action based on the mere hope that maybe other 2



### countries will follow our example and ditch coal 3



### mining for windmills? There ' s no proof that this 4



### will chan ge their system, and yet the EPA is so 5


### willing to ax thousands of jobs and put the 6



### economy at risk in pursuit of this unlikely wish. 7


### For the sake of our jobs, our communities, our 8



### economies, this decision must be reconsidered. 9



### In the end, I don ' t see t he Agency ' s 10



### proposed policy has a real solution. We will 11



### lose what we have worked for all of our lives and 12



### our communities will struggle in poverty. How 13



### can the EPA call this a success story. Thank 14



### you. 15



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Mr. McBee? 16



### MR. MCBEE: Good morning, my name is Levi 17



### McBee, M

- c

- B

- e

- e. I live near Wileyville, West 18



### Virginia. I ' m a union member, 1501. I work at 19



### Harrison County Mine. 20



### I just want to thank you for the 21



### opportunity to be here to voice my opinion. And 22

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### I ' ve been trying to under stand some of the EPA 1


### things, but it ' s kind of contradicting to me. 2



### You wrote out the Clean Power Plan by 3



### stating the goal is to reduce carbon dioxide 4


### emissions by 30 percent below 2005 levels, but 5


### nobody ever mentions that they ' re currently 13 6



### percent b elow those levels now, which is an 7


### important fact, because that proves that we ' re 8



### doing everything we can to get the emissions 9



### down, but nobody wants to mention that. 10



### They also want to take great effort in 11


### explaining how if the United States puts the rule 12



### into effect other countries will follow. But 13



### they don ' t tell anybody that other countries plan 14


### to build 1,200 coal fired power plants to meet 15


### their energy needs, and between China and India 16



### alone, four plants are coming online every week. 17



### So no matter w hat you do here, they ' re still 18



### going to do what they want. 19



### It ' s also the EPA issued the Maximum 20



### Achievable Control Technology rule also known as 21



### MACT. At the time it was stated that MACT would 22

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### reduce pollutants, including heavy metals, from 1



### smoke stack a nd boiler emissions, which would 2



### reduce the incidence of asthma, emphysema and 3



### chronic diseases. 4


### But now you make the same claim with this 5



### new plan, Clean Power Plan, but one rule wasn ' t 6



### enough. What I don ' t understand is the EPA 7



### chooses to cherry

- pick f acts instead of just 8



### telling the truth. 9



### When you look at industries in the 10



### country, you refuse to apply that technology 11


### exists, while at the same time investing research 12



### will allow us to use more plentiful natural 13



### resources. The EPA appears to have dec ided it ' s 14


### just not worth the effort. 15


### How will you keep energy prices low so 16



### homeowners and businesses can afford to keep the 17


### lights on if we dismantle the least expensive 18



### form of generation we have. 19



### This rule costs thousands of jobs lost in 20



### the coal fi eld, support industries and 21



### manufacturing centers across the country. They 22

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### will go elsewhere, line steel mills closing and a 1



### host of other industries we have outsourced, 2



### surely we are better than this as a nation. 3



### That ' s all I have. 4



### MR. POWERS: Thank y ou. The next speaker 5


### is Mike Phillippi, and with him James Frederick. 6



### And after them, the next panel after them on deck 7


### will be Ashley Harter and Reverend Mitch Hescox. 8



### MR. PHILLIPPI: Good morning. 9



### MR. POWERS: Good morning. 10



### MR. PHILLIPPI: My name is Michael 11


### Phillippi, P

- h

- i

- l

- l

- i

- p

- p

- i. I work for Murray 12



### American Energy, Inc. I work at the Monongah 13



### County Mine just outside of Morgantown, West 14


### Virginia. I ' m a proud member of UMWA, Local 15



### 1702. 16



### My testimony will highlight what the rule 17


### is supposed to accomplish, but unfortunately, it 18



### will not be able to achieve. The stated goal, as 19



### I understand it, is to reduce carbon dioxide 20



### emissions released into the atmosphere and the 21



### United States by 30 percent. 22

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### That reduction is 30 percent below 2005 1



### levels . Understanding, of course, that the total 2



### emissions of all types emitted by coal fired 3



### power plants have already been significantly 4



### reduced over the past several decades. 5


### The general idea then as I understand it 6



### is to put pressure on other nations to fo llow 7


### suit and to reduce their power plan t emissions. 8



### While the idea may have some merit and if all 9



### other countries accept this challenge, we might 10



### find ourselves on a level playing field in 11


### dealing with the global problem. 12



### However, if we simply look at t he 13



### realities of how these other countries are 14


### planning for their own energy future, it becomes 15



### apparent we ' re only fooling ourselves. 16



### Newspapers and other publications, 17


### including the Guardian, New York Times, 18



### Environmental and Climate News, World Resource 19



### Institute and others have identified 59 countries 20



### across the globe that are planning to build 1,200 21



### coal fired power plants, constructing these 22

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### plants at a rate of four per week. 1



### India and China are scheduled to build 2



### 818 of these coal fired stations ove r the next 3



### fifteen years. This will increase coal fired 4


### electric generation in China by 50 percent in 5


### that time. China, who according to Environmental 6



### and Climate News, does not have any pollution 7


### control at all on 30 percent of their generating 8



### stations , and do not use the scrubbing equipment 9



### of much of the remaining 70 percent to keep their 10



### energy costs low. 11


### These are the countries you intend to 12



### influence with this misguided policy. This, 13



### however, does not tell the whole story either. 14



### Countries that produce little or no coal within 15


### their borders, including Japan, Taiwan, South 16



### Korea, all who have large numbers of coal fired 17


### power plants, have increased coal imports 18



### drastically in the past years. 19



### Likewise, countries that have 20



### historically imported vas t amounts of coal for 21



### years, like Germany, the U.K., and France, have 22

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### also increased the imports in recent years. 1



### So whether we would consider these other 2



### nations, friend or foe, they are all moving in 3



### the absolute opposite direction with regard to 4



### meetin g their own future power needs. 5


### Instead of encouraging and investing in 6



### new technology like carbon capture and 7


### sequestration, and other clean coal technology at 8



### home, the EPA is content to shut our industries 9



### across the nation by implementing a policy t hat 10



### is simply doomed to fail. 11


### Unfortunately, this failure comes at an 12



### extreme cost for those working in coal and coal 13



### related industries. Once again, we are moving 14



### a head with policies that will enrich other 15


### countries at the expense of our own people. Th is 16



### is not a bold policy, it ' s a sellout. Thank you. 17



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 18



### MR. FREDERICK: Good morning, everyone. 19



### My name is James Frederick, F

- r

- e

- d

- e

- r

- i

- c

- k. I 20



### am a coal miner. I live in Finleyville, 21



### Pennsylvania. I am a member of the UMWA L ocal 22

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### Union 2300, and I work at the Cumberland Mine in 1


### Waynesburg, Pennsylvania. 2



### Thank you all for allowing me the time to 3



### speak at this hearing on the EPA ' s proposed rule. 4


### While I find this rule disturbing in many ways, I 5


### will keep my comments brief an d focus on some of 6



### the statements regarding what this policy will do 7



### for America. 8



### In a press release on June 2nd, 2014, the 9



### agency made many predictions about what benefits 10



### were reaped as a result of this rule, the EPA 11


### noted that the rule will, quote, " Fi ght climate 12



### change while supplying America with reliable and 13



### efficient power, " end of quote. 14



### I think the idea that this rule will do 15


### anything to reduce global emissions has been 16



### clearly refuted by many of the speakers before 17



### me. It is the second half of the statement that 18



### I also find questionable. 19



### I would argue that unlike most other 20



### nations around the globe, we have already 21



### accomplished that goal. Moreover, we have done 22

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### it while at the same time keeping energy costs 1



### low enough to allow everyone to affo rd them. 2



### Sometimes it is what you don ' t say that 3



### can be as important as what you want people to 4


### believe. It is about efficiency and reliability, 5


### but it is also about affordability. You can 6



### produce all types of products and offer unlimited 7



### services, but if the people cannot afford them 8



### there is no use in producing them. 9



### It ' s strange, but even Henry Ford, a man 10



### not known for being overly generous, understood 11



### that he could not

-- couldn ' t sell a car to a 12



### person who didn ' t make enough money to buy one. 13



### Unfortunately, you are looking at the same 14


### situation from the opposite point of view. You 15


### intend to produce a product and assume that 16



### regardless of the cost burden placed on working 17


### families, they will have no choice but to buy it. 18



### The same problem will exist for 19



### businesses in this country. They will be 20



### required to purchase power from far more 21



### expensive generating sources. But unlike the 22

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### workers who lose their jobs, businesses will do 1


### what they have done for decades when faced with 2



### rising costs. They w ill close shop and move to 3



### another country where costs are lower. 4



### The costs associated with this rule will 5


### help escalate unemployment in the remaining 6



### industrial base of our nation. So as you 7


### consider the consequences of this rule, it should 8



### become clear that your prediction, that it will, 9



### " spur innovation and create jobs, " end of quote, 10



### may eventually come true, just not here in the 11


### United States. We will, once again, create the 12



### perfect conditions to assist our competitors 13



### around the globe at the expens e of our own 14



### citizens. 15


### And as we race to the bottom, bankrupting 16



### the nation, the policy you impose will be seen 17


### for what it is, expensive and futile. Thank you. 18



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both. Ashley 19



### Harter and Reverend Mitch Hescox. 20



### MS. HARTER: Good morning. My name is 21



### Ashley Harter, H

- a

- r

- t

- e

- r. I am a coal miner 22

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### employed at Alpha Natural Resources, Cumberland 1


### Mine, in Waynesburg, Pennsylvania, and a member 2



### of the United Mine Workers of America, Local 3



### 2300. 4


### I would like to thank you for the 5



### oppor tunity to address this panel on the new EPA 6



### Clean Power Plan released June 2nd, 2014. 7


### I have worked at the mine for four years 8



### and I am currently a shuttle car operator at the 9



### mine. I am pleased to be able to offer testimony 10



### to this community on what is a matter of great 11


### importance to myself, my coworkers and our 12



### families. 13



### Like other miners who will be testifying 14


### here today, my family relies on my continued 15


### employment at the mine to sustain the life we are 16



### building. The health and well

- being of my 17



### ten

- y ear

- old daughter, Ariana, depends on the 18



### ability to bring home a paycheck. 19



### Our ability to remain contributing 20



### members of the community is tied to the work that 21



### I do. How can you strip that away from us? 22

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### My comments will be brief and I will keep 1



### my s ubject that I believe goes to the heart of 2



### crafting in this rule. That is how can a rule 3



### that affects scores of workers become a law 4


### without a bid in Congress, or they didn ' t see 5


### that as adapting to the policy, underestimating 6



### the damage they do to real p eople and real 7



### families. 8



### The EPA has billed this hearing and the 9



### ones in other cities as an, I quote, " opportunity 10



### for interested parties to present data, reviews 11


### or arguments concerning the proposed action. " 12



### Unfortunately, what the EPA is attempting 13



### to accomplish in these hearings is to avoid 14


### listening to the very people who will bear the 15


### brunt of his misguided policy. It is truly 16



### dishonest for the EPA to avoid going to the coal 17


### fields to hold these hearings. You ' re going to 18



### Atlanta, Denver, Washington , D.C. and here in 19



### Pittsburgh. This is the only place that even 20



### comes close to being in the coal fields. 21



### Even at that, the closest working coal 22

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### mines are several counties away from here. I 1


### have no doubt that this rule will be implemented 2



### by your agency at great personal and community 3



### expense to my family and thousands of other 4


### families who do not live anywhere close to where 5


### we have conducted hearings. 6



### It ' s no surprise to people where I ' m from 7


### that the conclusion you have reached and the rule 8



### you will i mpose is misguided, not simply because 9



### the methods you have used to reach these 10



### conclusions are misguided, but also because you 11


### have ignored the very people who are most 12



### severely impacted. 13



### The idea that you don ' t offer members of 14


### the community that will be economically 15


### devastated by your actions the courtesy of 16



### conducting hearings in those communities 17



### demonstrated that, at the very least, the 18



### appearance of ignorance and reinforcing the 19



### beliefs that your determinations are made solely 20



### on the data and info rmation you deem important 21



### regardless of what other information may be 22

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### available elsewhere. 1


### I sincerely request that you not stop 2



### here. Conduct more hearings where the people who 3



### will be most adversely impacted by the rule live 4



### and work. Come to Morgant own and Beckley, West 5


### Virginia; Washington, Pennsylvania; Bessemer, 6



### Alabama; Henderson, Kentucky; and Price, Utah. 7


### When you make life and death decisions 8



### for workers, their families and our communities, 9



### you should have the courage to look them in the 10



### eye. Yes, I did say life and death decisions. 11


### This is what is happening with the rule, and 12



### every one of us should treat it with that 13



### understanding. Thank you for your time. 14



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Reverend Hescox. 15



### MR. HESCOX: I ' m the Reverend Mitchell C

. 16



### Hescox, H

- e

- s

- c

- o

- x. 17


### See, he said to our people. This stone 18



### will be a witness against us. It has heard the 19



### words the Lord has said to us. It will be a 20



### witness against you if you are untrue to your 21



### God. 22

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### I am Mitch Hescox, President of the 1


### Evangelic al Environmental Network, a resident and 2



### native of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and 3



### Evangelical Pro

- Life Christian and lifelong 4


### Republican. 5



### Today I ' m here in support of the EPA ' s 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plan and to offer my unique 7


### prospective, not only as an Evangelical 8



### Christian, but as someone who has been 18 years 9



### as a local church pastor, 14 years as a 10



### professional in the coal and power industries, 11


### and is also a father and grandfather. 12



### Today marks the opportunity for a new 13



### day. We have a choice to make. Will we, as 14



### citizens of the United States, defend the lives 15


### and health of our children and provide them the 16



### opportunity for a new clean energy economy, or 17


### will we burden them not only with a national 18



### monetary debt, but the even more harmful burden 19



### o f increasing a climate change world. 20



### Will we stop the special favors that the 21



### coal industry has enjoyed and allow the real cost 22

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### of coal to affect our decisions? With four 1


### children and five grandchildren, I have 2



### considerable interest in the future and the 3



### future for all of God ' s children. 4


### My kids have never experienced a June 5


### below the 20th century average. And with June, 6



### 2014 as the hottest June in the history of the 7


### world, marking the 352nd month above the 20th 8



### century average, my grandchildren already live in 9



### a changed world. 10



### The future is upon us and the question 11


### remains, will we cling to a threatening past or 12



### stretch to a new future? 13



### There are many good people testifying 14


### here today that are concerned for their jobs and 15


### their family. They fear the loss of jobs in a 16



### way of life, and at the same time we look at this 17



### rule, we must be concerned for coal miners and 18



### power plant workers and find a way to address 19



### their fears. 20



### It ' s not an unknown fear. Back in 1900 21



### or thereabouts, the number three industry in the 22

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### United States was horses, both in terms of jobs 1


### and in terms of money. 2



### But it soon faced the similar situation 3



### that the coal mining industry is facing today for 4


### the automobile industry. But living in a country 5


### whose economy is based on market, we must allow 6



### the marketers to create new opportunities and 7


### brighter future, and not be hindered by political 8



### road blocks from special interest. 9



### For years we have subsidized the cost of 10



### coal generated electricity in the brains, lungs 11



### and bodies of our child ren and privatized the 12



### cost to profits. Asthmas, cancers, autism, birth 13



### defects and brain damage have a direct link to 14


### the use of fossil fuels and petro chemicals. 15


### Even today, according to the American 16



### Lung Association, Pittsburgh still flunks its 17



### air, a nd over 26,000 children right here in this 18



### community have asthma and live asthma impeded 19



### lives. And a climate change will just make smog 20



### worse. 21



### These threats to our children make caring 22

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### for God ' s creation a matter of life in Christian 1


### discipleship. 2



### Th e Proposed Clean Power Plant Rule 3



### begins a mark of correction that is long overdue. 4


### Some of us wish to believe that coal electricity 5


### is cheap, but according to several studies, when 6



### you add the cost to our health and medical bills, 7


### lost lives, property da mage and the like, coal 8



### electricity is at least triple what you pay at 9



### the meter. Coal appears cheap, but each of us 10



### pays the price in our children ' s health, 11


### insurance premiums, fouled air and polluted 12



### water. 13



### Providing pure water and clean air 14



### shouldn ' t be a hindrance to our economy, jobs and 15


### future. In fact, having a fruitful creation 16



### enhances existing industries, new industries, the 17



### attractiveness of communities and satisfied 18



### employees. 19



### If Pennsylvania takes advantage of this 20



### proposed standard ' s flexi bility, there will be an 21



### equal amount of employment created from the 22

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### natural gas industry as resulting from switching 1



### fuel. 2



### More importantly, 13,000 new jobs will be 3



### created by 2020 if Pennsylvania ' s implementation 4



### plan for the Clean Power Plan returns th e 5



### commonwealth to its former ' s leadership. 6



### Job creation is vital, but defending life 7


### remains paramount. And the Proposed Clean Power 8



### Plan Rule accomplishes significant pollution 9



### reduction in both carbon and additional coal 10



### pollutants, including particula tes, sulfur 11



### dioxide and NOx. 12



### According to a recent Harvard and 13



### Syracuse study, Pennsylvania an d the Ohio River 14


### Valley will be the single largest location in the 15


### country to benefit from this new standard. 16



### I know my time is running out, and I ' d 17


### just like to close by saying that this is an 18



### opportunity for all of us to come together. We 19



### have concerns to address from the coal miners. 20



### We have a future to look at for our children. 21



### In the passage that I quoted from 22

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### scripture earlier was a great place where Joshua 1



### gathered all the people together to come together 2



### and make a plan, and I would ask that we would 3



### all come together, find solutions to all these 4


### problems and make a healthier, brighter, future 5


### America for all of us. Thank you very much. 6



### MR. POWE RS: Thank you both very much. 7



### MR. HESCOX: Just to record that my 8



### written statement includes the rest of my 9



### testimony. 10



### MR. POWERS: Okay, great. I am waiting 11


### for the next cards. This is the just in time 12



### delivery system here. Thank you very much. 13



### The next two speakers are Jessie Carr and 14



### Louis Otto. 15


### MS. CARR: Good morning. My name is 16



### Jessie Carr and I ' m a research scientist in the 17


### Department of Environmental and Occupational 18



### Health at the University of Pittsburgh Graduate 19



### School of Public Healt h. And I am grateful for 20



### the opportunity today to voice my support for 21



### both of the proposed rules. 22

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### Historically, commonsense health base 1


### pollution control regulations have a concern over 2



### what they might cost. And we have seen again and 3



### again that the benefits far outweigh those costs. 4


### From a public health prospective, the 5



### EPA ' s proposed rule is long overdue. And we ' ve 6



### projected newer term health benefits outweighing 7


### costs by ten to one. We cannot afford to wait. 8



### Across the commonwealth we have some of 9



### the nation ' s highest smog levels. We are 10



### breaking heat wave records each summer and more 11


### frequent and extreme storms and flooding threaten 12



### the livelihood and security of rural and urban 13



### residents alike. 14


### Implementing sensible carbon regulation 15



### can les sen the worst public health impacts of 16



### climate change locally and globally and support 17


### innovation and diversification in our energy 18



### sector. Carbon emissions limits in the proposed 19



### rule, the Clean Power Plan, are supported by 72 20



### percent of Pennsylvania vot ers, according to a 21



### poll by the League of Conservation voters. 22

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### The proposed rule offers states 1


### flexibility to decide how they meet those carbon 2



### standards, and I want to focus my comments today 3



### on actions for state and federal lawmakers to 4



### ensure that the benefits of the proposed rule are 5


### shared equally and sustainably. 6



### First, the EPA must require environmental 7


### justice analysis as part of the state 8



### implementation plans to ensur e that communities 9



### already over

- burdened with industrial pollution 10



### do not conti nue to disproportionately bear those 11


### costs, particularly for states who opt for cap 12



### and trade approaches. 13



### Second, without sensible health based 14


### regulations for the unconventional, natural gas 15


### industry, the economic and health benefits of the 16



### proposed rule will be undone and create 17


### potentially equally daunting challenges for 18



### future Pennsylvanians. 19



### Specifically, the EPA and Pennsylvania 20



### DEP should require one, best available technology 21



### for capturing unintended methane emissions, green 22

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### completions and clos e waste water systems. 1



### Second, we must create systems and 2



### enforcement from monitoring of well bore 3



### integrity. 4


### Three, weighing out health protective, 5


### well permitting guidelines. 6



### Four, enforcement authority and resources 7


### for state and local agencies to ov ersee this 8



### emerging industry. 9



### Five, transparency around reduced water 10



### components and disposal systems. 11


### Six, a prospective epidemiological 12



### investigation of potential health effects which 13



### are to date unknown and under investigated. 14


### And thank you again for the opportunity 15



### to present my comments. 16



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Mr. Otto? 17


### MR. OTTO: Good morning. My name is Lou 18



### Otto, O

- t

- t

- o. I live in Hibbs, Pennsylvania, a 19



### small mining community about 50 miles south of 20



### here. I am a member of the United Mine W orkers 21



### of American Local Union 1980 and I worked at t he 22

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### Consolidated Coal Company Dilworth Mine for 29 1



### years. 2



### Like many of the miners who have 3



### testified before the EPA, regarding the Clean 4


### Power Plan, I spent most of my life in this small 5


### knit community where the sons have followed their 6



### fathers, their grandfathers into the mines to 7


### earn a living. 8



### However, before my mining career began I 9



### was inducted in the Navy in May of 1957. And 10



### after basic training I was deployed all over the 11



### world in service of my country. I served as a 12



### Quartermaster Navigator on a destroyer for four 13



### years. 14



### At that time I served with men from all 15



### across this nation in all walks of life. As most 16



### who have served, I felt a unique bond with others 17


### who have been drafted or joined t he military. 18



### Military service teaches you many things, 19



### including a deep sense of commitment to your 20



### country and a brotherhood with those you have 21



### served with. My service to this country has 22

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### helped define who I am and I am proud of my 1



### service to this nati on. 2



### When I returned home I began my mining 3



### career, built a life for my family, educated my 4



### children, and have been a hard member of this 5


### society. 6



### And like with my military service, I was 7


### surrounded by a very unique group of people. 8



### Coal miners rely on e ach other. They look out 9



### for one another and the work that we do creates a 10



### brotherhood of its own. 11


### There are few occupations in this world 12



### that require each person to rely so heavily on 13



### the brothers and sisters that they work with. 14


### Like my military serv ice, I am very proud to be a 15



### miner. 16



### I have served my country, worked hard to 17


### make a living in the mines. And those efforts 18



### has helped this nation grow into a world super 19



### power. 20



### Coal has powered the industrial base, 21



### built sustainable manufacturing and ma de sure 22

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### that when you flip a switch the lights will come 1



### on. 2



### I have made a good living in the mines, 3



### and through my years of service I have earned a 4


### pension and healthcare for my retirement years. 5



### Yet none of these efforts seem to matter. The 6



### EPA has de cided that what I have done, and what I 7


### have earned are somehow insignificant. 8



### You have determined that my family and I 9



### can be sacrificed as part of your misguided plan, 10



### despite all the years of work and dedication to 11



### this nation. 12



### With implementation of this rule you are 13



### threatening all that I have worked for. You will 14


### put my pension plan at risk and eliminate

-- yes, 15


### eliminate my healthcare all at the same time. 16



### The EPA ' s plan to marginalize the coal 17


### industry in this country will have no positive 18



### impac t on global problems you are targeting, but 19



### it will destroy all that I and my fellow workers 20



### have worked for. I appreciate your time and 21



### thank you. 22

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### MR. POWERS: Thank you for your comments. 1


### The next two speakers are Rich Kulick and Harold 2



### Erdos. 3



### MR. KU LICK: Good morning. My name is 4



### Richard Kulick, K

- u

- l

- i

- c

- k. I live in 5


### Sankertown, Pennsylvania. I ' m a proud member of 6



### UMWA Local 1368 in Cambria County, and I thank 7


### you for the opportunity to speak today. 8



### I understand the Environmental Protection 9



### Agen cy touts itself as a body that relies on 10



### science when making its determinations, and then 11


### applies their findings in a practical manner. 12



### While I ' m not a scientist, I can point 13



### out that somewhere between science and its 14


### application, you have clearly disrega rded any 15


### semblance of practicality. 16



### The evolution of the EPA ' s Clean Air 17



### Initiative to the final Clean Power Plan seems 18



### rather suspect. The fact that the proposal rule 19



### is almost identical to a 2012 report issued by 20



### the National Resource Defense Council , NRDC, 21



### cannot be refuted. With the exception of a few 22

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### minor differences, the major aspects of the NRDC 1


### recommendations is the EPA rule we are discussing 2



### today. 3



### This raises serious questions about the 4


### rule. First, it would seem inappropriate for any 5



### o utside group such as the NRDC, which has a 6



### vested interest in crafting the outcome of public 7


### policy, to have such influence in the process. 8



### Second, it raises serious questions about 9



### a government agency ' s independent judgment and 10



### determination regarding su ch policies. 11


### Certainly, from my point of view as a 12



### non

- scientist, it appears to be very suspicious. 13



### As I stated before, I cannot contest all 14


### of your science, but I certainly question your 15



### process. That, alone, makes me wonder about the 16



### legitimacy of thi s rule. Obviously, by actions 17


### taken by the Agency to move forward with the 18



### rule, these concerns aren ' t bothering anyone at 19



### the EPA. 20



### So the country ends up implementing a 21



### plan that the NRDC drafted, and the EPA 22

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### apparently agrees with, beyond a doubt is a plan 1


### that will ultimately result in the serious harm 2



### of the coal industry in the United States, and it 3



### also will result in massive job losses and 4


### hardship for mining families and communities, and 5


### all to what end? What do we hope will be the 6



### results of t his policy? 7


### Do you actually believe other nations 8



### around the world will change their course and 9



### throw their citizens out of work and shatter all 10



### the coal fired power stations they are building? 11


### That simply will not happen. 12



### So from a practical aspect , the plan will 13



### be a flop. China and India alone can almost 14


### certainly make insignificant any reduction you 15


### seek in CO2 emissions by closing the coal fired 16



### power plants in the United States of America. 17


### What will you have accomplished then? 18



### You will not o nly have destroyed hundreds 19



### of thousands of good paying jobs, you will have 20



### eliminated the possibility our great country 21



### would solve these global problems by investing in 22

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### new technology as it has demonstrated many times 1


### in the past. 2



### Without the coal indus try, there will be 3



### no push in the United States to find a real 4


### resolution. The EPA may believe it has all the 5



### answers to the problem, but there appear to be a 6



### lot of questions you haven ' t asked. I thank you 7


### for your time. 8



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 9



### MR. E RDOS: My name is Harold Erdos, 10



### that ' s E

- r

- d

- o

- s. I am a retired miner and a 11



### member of the United Mine Workers of America 12



### Local Union Number 1304 in Hopedale, Ohio. I 13



### worked 10 years in underground coal mines in Ohio 14



### and I ' ve worked 23 years for the Unit ed Mine 15



### Workers of America. I have been retired from the 16



### mines for 13 years. 17


### I currently receive a pension benefit 18



### from the UMWA Health and Retirement Funds, 19



### benefits that I earned through my years of hard 20



### work in the coal industry. I think it is 21



### impor tant for everyone here to understand that 22

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### the pension benefits I receive is the result of 1


### years of sacrifice. They are the promise of the 2



### collective bargaining agreements between the UMWA 3



### and the coal operators to provide economic 4


### security to miners when we retire from the 5


### industry. 6



### Whether you know it or not, the policy 7


### that the EPA is proposing here, if fully 8



### implemented, will put these hard earned benefits 9



### at serious risk. Look at this from my point of 10



### view. Your hope that this policy will eliminate 11


### a global problem is uncertain at best. 12



### However, the rush to apply this risky 13



### policy, which focuses almost exclusively on the 14


### coal industry, will make it uncertain that I will 15


### receive the pension I was promised and that I 16



### risked my life for and my health f or every single 17



### day that I worked and earned. 18



### As a person who represented workers for 19



### most of my adult life, I believe that the 20



### situation that retired coal miners and their 21



### families face because of this policy is 22

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### outrageous. The problem should be easy fo r 1


### everyone here to understand. It is about keeping 2



### what you have earned, worked a lot of time to 3



### achieve. I am sure that each of you looks 4


### forward to the day when you can retire and 5


### continue to live securely because of the 6



### retirement promises that were m ade to you in 7



### return for the hard work you do for the 8



### government. 9



### I, for one, sincerely hope that those 10



### days arrive for you when you choose to leave your 11


### profession. This is all that I am asking for. 12



### It is all that my brothers and sisters, who have 13



### giv en their best years of their lives to their 14


### profession, are looking to receive. 15


### We have earned the right to expect 16



### security in our retirement. We have secured 17


### those rights through hard work, sacrifice and 18



### years of collective bargaining agreements. But 19



### if this agency chooses to adopt this questionable 20



### policy and destroy a large portion of the coal 21



### industry, it can also destroy our future. 22

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### In closing I would like to thank you for 1


### your time and ask that you look very closely at 2



### the consequences of the ac tions that you are 3



### proposing here today. Thank you. 4



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. The next two 5


### speakers are John Kochanowski and Nila Goudy. 6



### MR. KOCHANOWSKI: You did very good on 7


### that pronunciation, by the way. 8



### MR. POWERS: Good. Thank you. 9



### MR. KOCHANO WSKI: My name is John 10



### Kochanowski, K

- o

- c

- h

- a

- n

- o

- w

- s

- k

- i. I ' m a member 11



### of Local Union 712 IBEW. Here I ' m here speaking 12



### on behalf of construction IBEW Local Union 712 13



### and it ' s 450 members. 14



### I ' m here today because our members are 15



### concerned about their los s of their jobs due to 16



### the EPA ' s Proposed Clean Power Plan. 17


### I will relate to my personal experiences 18



### about the economic opportunities provided by coal 19



### and nuclear plants to our members, residents and 20



### businesses in the tri

- state areas over the past 21



### four decades. 22

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### My oldest brother, Patrick, had graduated 1


### from Penn State University in 1975, but the 2



### nation ' s economy was suffering from stagnant 3



### inflation and the only opportunities for 4


### employment in his field were Alaska or 5



### Antarctica. 6



### Pat decided to broade n his search for 7


### employment and was able to land a job as a n 8



### electrician with Penn Power who constructed three 9



### unit coal fired power plants and shipping port. 10



### My brother was able to live and raise his family 11


### here and worked his way into management at the 12



### plant halfway through his career. 13



### Pat recently retired from First Energy, 14


### who now owns the plant with over three

- and

- a

- half 15


### decades of service from a good middle class and 16



### community supporting job. 17


### I graduated high school in 1977. I have 18



### grown up on a f arm, and decided I didn ' t want to 19



### go to college but work at a location with my 20



### hands. The area ' s steam industry started to show 21



### signs of stress in the tri

- state area, so jobs 22

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### weren ' t plentiful for my classmates, and me. 1


### After two years of replying I was 2



### fortunate enough to be selected by the IBEW for 3



### entry into their four

- year apprenticeship 4


### program. My apprenticeship consisted of school 5


### training and working various jobs in steel mills, 6



### power plants, hospitals and commercial jobs. 7


### I was finishing my app renticeship in 8



### 1983, however, the end of our steel mill industry 9



### was in sight and many of my high school 10



### classmates who had or were graduating college had 11


### to scatter all across the country to find jobs 12



### and opportunities for work. 13



### My mom became concerned b ecause I may 14


### have to join them, but fortunately construction 15


### of a second unit, the Beaver Valley Power Station 16



### Nuclear Power Plant, was underway. The work that 17



### followed over the next half decade allowed 18



### hundreds of my fellow local union members, trade 19



### mem bers and other residents of the region to help 20



### the local businesses and economy weather the 21



### economic void created by the rapidly declining 22

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### steel industry. 1



### My mom, who last week celebrated her 87th 2



### birthday, would always thank God for the power 3



### plants, all owing her sons and their families to 4



### stay close to home. 5


### Work slowed in our country after the 6



### completion of the plant, but from the late 1980s 7


### to the late 1990s and into the current century, 8



### my fellow members and I were able to find 9



### employment in eastern Ohio, northern West 10



### Virginia and western Pennsylvania due to outages 11


### and pollution control upgrades at coal fired 12



### power plants. 13



### Many Local 712 retired members enjoy a 14


### good retirement, thanks to the many hours of work 15


### afforded to them. My neighbor of abou t 20 years, 16



### Dave Tellish (phonetic), in the late 1980s had 17


### gotten a job with U.S. Air, like some other 18



### residents did after the steel industry had 19



### collapsed. 20



### Dave managed to survive numerous 21



### restructuring and bankruptcies by U.S. Air over 22

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### the years, but th en 9/11 hit the airline 1


### industry. Pittsburgh lost its status as a hub 2



### airport and Dave was soon to be laid off. 3



### Dave was fortunate enough to have an 4


### opportunity and landed a job at the First Energy 5


### coal fired plant and shipping port and kept his 6



### family in the area. He is a member of utility 7



### IBEW Local Union 272. 8



### The rest of the economy in Beaver County 9



### has continued to decline with many businesses and 10



### plants closing, but the most recent ones being 11


### Armstrong Industries in the Horsehead Zinc Plant, 12



### wh ere my dad worked all his life. 13



### The local coal and nuclear plants have 14


### been a continuous pillar of economic support for 15


### the businesses and local economy for over four 16



### decades during this time of economic turmoil. 17


### I sit on the community advisory panel fo r 18



### businesses in a Route 18 corridor, and discussion 19



### recently from the chemical plants, trucking 20



### company and other businesses have been their 21



### concern over power plants that have closed or are 22

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### talking of closing in the region. They want to 1



### be sure that they have access to plenty of power 2



### at a reasonable pricing structure so that their 3



### plants can maintain competitiveness in a global 4


### economy in which they have to compete. 5


### I grew up within six miles of coal and 6



### nuclear plants, and now live with my family 7



### withi n two miles of those places, downwind of the 8



### site. 9



### Summarizing my comments, they are clearly 10



### about the vital economic opportunity that has 11


### been created by the power plants in the area for 12



### the past and present generations. 13



### The agency has an opportunity to tailor 14


### the rules of the proposed Clean Power Plan in a 15


### manner that is realistic and economically 16



### sustainable. I hope the agency develops a 17



### well

- crafted energy plan that keeps the present 18



### generation working and provides future 19



### generations economic oppor tunities by balancing 20



### the needs of working Americans, our economy and 21



### environment. 22

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### Thank you for allowing me to present my 1


### input today. 2



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Ms. Goudy? 3



### MS. GOUDY: Hello, my name is Nila Goudy, 4



### G

- o

- u

- d

- y. My husband, Victor, worked in a coal 5


### mines for nearly 30 years. We raised our family 6



### of three daughters in Sistersville, West 7


### Virginia. 8



### Victor worked at Consol Energy ' s McElroy 9



### Mine in Glen Easton, West Virginia. Unlike many 10



### of the miners who are testifying here today, my 11



### husband never had the opportunity to receive his 12



### pension or retiree healthcare benefits. On 13



### October 19th, 2008 my husband, Victor, was killed 14


### in a mining accident. 15


### When Victor left the house that day, like 16



### everyone else, expected to return home at the end 17



### of hi s shift. But like too many other miners, 18



### Victor never came home. 19



### The years since his passing have been 20



### difficult. It ' s never easy to lose the person 21



### you have spent most of your life with, especially 22

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### in such a tragic way. Nothing can replace the 1



### loss of a loved one. Victor ' s years of hard work 2



### as a UMWA coal miner, did afford me the 3



### retirement and healthcare benefits he earned 4


### while working in mines. 5


### I, like so many other widows of coal 6



### miners, receive a pension, healthcare benefits 7



### from the UMWA Healt h and Retirement Funds. And 8



### like some other jobs, coal mining is truly a 9



### family endeavor. The good and the bad, the risk 10



### of injury and illness, and the uncertainty of 11


### what can occur weigh not only on the miner but is 12



### always on the mind of his family. 13



### So whether the miner dies in an accident 14


### as my husband did, or passes away from some other 15


### cause, the benefits they earned are rightfully 16



### passed to the widow. 17


### As you can imagine, these benefits are 18



### very important to me. They allow me to live in 19



### my home a nd remain in a community where my 20



### husband and I settled and raised a family. They 21



### offer me the security and retirement that we 22

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### worked for as a mining family. They are what we 1



### have earned for the sacrifices we made. 2



### But today I feel while we have played by 3



### the rules and met all the obligations to have 4


### these benefits, the game has been changed. It 5



### seems that someone who never saw the sacrifice or 6



### shared the struggle is determining whether I can 7


### keep my pension and healthcare. This is not how 8



### life is supp osed to be. 9



### No one and no government agency should be 10



### permitted to take away what someone has earned, 11


### especially at such a high cost. 12



### There is an immediate and devastating 13



### price that will be paid because of the policy the 14


### EPA is pursuing. Miners, wi dows and children 15


### will lose the security they have earned by this 16



### risky action that you are about to take. There 17


### is no evidence to support the notion that this 18



### policy will have a positive effect on global 19



### climate change. Nothing indicates that other 20



### more polluting countries will reduce their 21



### emissions. In fact, everything else points to 22

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### the opposite direction. 1


### The only thing we can say for certain is 2



### that if this rule is imposed by the EPA, my 3



### benefits will not simply be reduced, they will be 4



### eliminated . Everything Victor worked and 5


### struggled for and ultimately died for will be 6



### gone. No one can see this as a fair trade no 7



### matter who they can be. Thank you. 8



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. The next 9



### speakers are Mel Packer and Jeremy Washington. 10



### And then fol lowing them are Eric Ritter and Paul 11



### Cameron. 12



### MR. PACKER: My name is Mel Packer, I 13



### live in Pittsburgh. I ' m retired from both the 14


### healthcare industry and the truck driving 15


### industry. 16



### In 1968 the Mannington Mine in 17


### Farmington, West Virginia owned by Conso l coal, 18



### caught fire, blew up and 78 miners were buried 19



### alive. 20



### In ' 72 a Consol mine in Blacksville, West 21



### Virginia caught fire. Nine miners were buried, 22

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### again, likely alive, and Consol sealed the mine 1


### to stop the fire to save the coal. 2



### I remember those well, having been 3



### involved in labor struggles as a working Teamster 4



### truck driver back then with friends in the coal 5



### fields. 6



### In the early ' 70s a militant movement of 7



### rank and file union coal miners called Miners for 8



### Democracy was born, threw out corrupt le aders and 9



### rebuilt a union. It was militant demanded safe 10



### working conditions, knew who the enemy was and 11


### still is the owners of the coal companies. 12



### I knew and worked with some of them. I 13



### even worked in the mid ' 70s to try and persuade 14



### them to revive the MFD that is now dissolved. 15


### But at its founding, the MFD knew what it 16



### was about, knew that the coal companies were evil 17


### and knew miners had to stick up for each other as 18



### workers or die. 19



### Yesterday, I stood on a sidewalk outside 20



### this building holding a sign calling for reduced 21



### carbon emissions while a few thousand miners and 22

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### family members marched by supporting the same 1


### communities that brutalized and exploited the 2



### communities of Appalachia for decades. 3



### We have to ask what happened to make 4



### union coal miners support companies that buried 5


### their ancestors alive, gave most of the survivors 6



### black lung, tried to deny them benefits and laid 7


### them off by the tens of thousands as companies 8



### opened non

- union mines and began ruining the 9



### almost heaven hills and valleys of West Virginia 10



### with mountaintop removal, which employs few, if 11


### any, union miners. 12



### Why are union miners falling for the 13



### company line that there ' s a war on coal when the 14


### coal and gas companies are really making a war on 15



### all of us and on our planet, on our c hildren ' s 16



### futures and certainly on the same miners who 17



### marched yesterday. Because they ' re scared to 18



### death for the future, that ' s why. 19



### Last year, I traveled through some of the 20



### same mining communities where friends lived and 21



### worked in the early ' 70 s, town s like War and 22

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### Welch, that were once friendly, solid working 1



### class towns, places we ' d all be proud to live. 2



### When I was there last year I couldn ' t 3



### find a pizza shop open on a Sunday and most 4


### businesses were boarded up because miners are 5



### scared. 6



### I saw pov erty on that trip in those 7


### hidden Appalachian valleys that I ' ve not seen 8



### since the Kennedy

- Johnson era and the War on 9



### Poverty days. 10



### Miners and their families have a right to 11



### be scared. Why? Not because of the war on coal, 12



### but because the very same coal companies that 13



### funded those protests pulled out of their 14


### communities once the easy

- to

- get coal was gone, 15


### and went to mountaintop removal, or tar sands 16



### oil, or fracking, left miners and their families 17


### out in the cold, jobless and desperate for easy 18



### answers. 19



### I saw anger on the faces of those 20



### marching miners yesterday, but I smelled fear on 21



### every one of them, fear of further social and 22

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### economic devastation, of hungry children with 1



### lousy schools and no way out, of old houses 2



### without money to keep them up, of t he addictions 3



### people turn to when they ' re desperate for relief 4


### from the social pain of unemployment that just 5


### keeps coming every time your kid looks in your 6



### empty pockets for lunch money. 7


### Those angry and fearful miners who are 8



### marching aren ' t stupid, they ' re as smart as 9



### anybody else in this room, but they ' re desperate. 10



### They know what ' s coming about climate change, 11


### looming environmental disasters already too late 12



### to avoid, but they still need to feed their kids. 13



### Those miners and their families have 14



### fuele d this nation with their labor and their 15


### lives for countless decades. They, like everyone 16



### else displaced in this Wall Street recover but 17


### working class disaster need good jobs with 18



### dignity, union protection and living wages, jobs 19



### that leave us with a sense of pride at the end of 20



### our shift, knowing we somehow contributed to the 21



### common good, and it ain ' t going to come from the 22

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### coal companies, not now and not ever. 1



### They ' ve used up those miners and their 2



### families and they ' re spitting them out, while 3



### using the one last time for their own interests. 4



### And so I come to the proposed 5


### regulations, weak as they are, and certainly to 6



### be weaker once Congress gets done working for the 7


### coal companies. But they are still urgently 8



### needed and it should be strengthened befo re they 9



### even begin getting off our self

- destructive path 10



### paid by the fossil fuel industry. 11



### But while we debate those rules, we must 12



### also create good jobs for those who will be, 13



### correctly, displaced from the mines. 14



### Would anyone here dare tell me that a 15



### la id off miner would not rather have a good clean 16



### union job building solar panels or wind turbines, 17


### that a human being would choose black lung over a 18



### clean environment that allows comfortable 19



### retirement, a job where the roof doesn ' t fall and 20



### kill you, a job where you might not wind up being 21



### buried alive just to save the coal. 22

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### If you can answer yes to those questions, 1



### I ' ll refer you to a good psychiatrist for a 2



### sanity check. 3



### In closing, I urge the EPA to do the same 4


### thing by rewriting your proposed carbon re duction 5


### regulations to not only increase the rate at 6



### which the reductions are achieved, but demand 7


### that Congress provide the funds to put those who 8



### lose coal jobs back to work in fully funded 9



### renewable energy jobs and save the communities 10



### that have been de stroyed by the coal companies. 11



### Government cannot serve two masters. It 12



### either works for us, the working people, or for 13



### the fossil fuel companies. I know which side I ' m 14



### on. How about the EPA? Thank you. 15



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 16



### MR. WASHINGTON: Hi, I ' m Jeremy 17


### Washington, speaking on behalf of Donna Eady, 18



### which is E

- a

- d

- y. 19



### " To whom it may concern. I ' m writing 20



### this letter because I know the pollution levels 21



### in my city are beyond legal requirements. River 22

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### Rouge, Ecourse and SW Detroit make up a third of 1


### the most polluted zip codes in the country. " 2



### " I also think that Petcoke that was 3



### stored illegally along the Detroit River played a 4


### part in my illness. I suffer from multiple 5


### illnesses, including chronic bronchitis. My body 6



### feels the effect of the po llution around me every 7



### day. " 8



### " Breathing filthy air, drinking 9



### contaminated water, eating tainted vegetables 10



### from my garden all contain pollutants, and are 11


### taking a toll on me and my family. " 12



### " In the year 2013 I became very ill. I 13



### was rushed to the hospi tal several times, only to 14


### have multiple tests run on me, finding nothing 15



### and sent back home to suffer. I was admitted 16



### into the hospital three times and never really 17



### got answers as to what was wrong. " 18



### " I went through a gall bladder operation, 19



### kidney fail ure, to find out later from the 20



### reports I requested that I had high amounts of 21



### benzene in my system. " 22

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### " I strongly support the new EPA emission 1



### standard for power plants and the proposed new 2



### emission standard for refineries. I would 3



### encourage you to hold a hearing on the latter in 4


### Detroit. Please allow us to tell you how the 5



### environment we live in has affected our lives. " 6



### " It is time to put a stop to the blatant 7


### disregard for our citizens ' health. My 8



### grandfather died from lung disease. My mother 9



### suffer s from lung disease and asthma runs deep in 10



### the entire family generations. " 11



### " I know that my children have been 12



### affected as well, but it is not too late for 13



### them. We depend on you to maintain the highest 14


### standards for air and water to protect the public 15



### h ealth. Sincerely, Donna Eady. " 16



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. The next two 17


### speakers are Eric Ritter and Paul Cameron. 18



### MR. RITTER: Good morning. 19



### MR. POWERS: Good morning. 20



### MR. CAMERON: Good morning. Paul 21



### Cameron. 22

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### MR. RITTER: Hi. My name is Eric Ritter

. 1


### I am the communications and strategy manager for 2



### a non

- profit organization called the Lake Erie 3



### Energy Development Corporation or LEEDCO for 4



### short. We ' re based in Cleveland, Ohio, and we 5


### have a mission of building the offshore wind 6



### power industry in th e Great Lakes Region. 7


### We are a public, private partnership that 8



### was founded by four lake front counties in Ohio, 9



### Lorain, Lake, Cuyahoga and Ashtabula Counties, as 10



### well as the City of Cleveland. And our private 11


### partner is the Cleveland Foundation and No rtech. 12



### I ' m truly pleased to be able to be here 13



### today and for this opportunity to say on behalf 14


### of LEEDCO that we are very supportive of the 15



### EPA ' s Clean Power Plan. And as a non

- profit 16



### organization dedicated to building this offshore 17


### wind industry in the Great Lakes, I think we have 18



### a unique perspective to add to this conversation. 19



### A couple points that I just want to make. 20



### First off, we really support this because it is a 21



### first step toward correcting a really major 22

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### market failure, and it will help to put clean 1


### energy industries, nascent clean energy 2



### industries like offshore wind, on an even playing 3



### field so that we can compete with more 4


### traditional energy sources. 5



### Power plants have been allowed to spew 6



### unlimited amounts of carbon dioxide into the 7



### atmosph ere forever, and this has real social and 8



### environmental consequences on society. These are 9



### costs that are externalized and it makes it 10



### difficult for new industries like the offshore 11


### wind industry to compete, and this Clean Power 12



### Plan is an important first step toward correcting 13



### that market failure. 14


### The second point that I want to make is 15


### that for the Great Lakes Region, offshore wind 16



### represents a really excellent opportunity for us 17


### to meet some of the goals laid out in the Clean 18



### Power Plan. 19



### The Great Lak es Region is the most coal 20



### dependent coastal region in the country, and as 21



### pressures on coal increase, we ' re going to need 22

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### to have new generation sources that can reach a 1


### significant scale. 2



### And National Renewable Energy Lab 3



### estimate is that the Great La kes hold over 700 4


### gigawatts of electric generating capacity. 5



### That ' s about 20 percent of the entire U.S. 6



### capacity. So there ' s a lot of potential here. 7


### And the final point that I want to make 8



### is that as new clean energy industries like 9



### offshore wind emerg e, it ' s going to create a lot 10



### of good jobs that people that are currently 11


### working in coal fired power plants will be able 12



### to transition to. And LEEDCO is a non

- profit 13



### organization that ' s really dedicated to help 14


### support that transition. 15



### Our first endeavo r to make this project 16



### -- to make this vision become a reality is 17


### initial demonstration project called Ice Breaker. 18



### It will consist of six wind turbines that we ' re 19



### building about seven to nine miles outside of 20



### downtown Cleveland. 21



### We ' re working to inv olve as many local 22

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### companies as we possibly can. We ' ve involved a 1



### lot of local unions. We ' re helping to develop 2



### the work force to be able to maximize the local 3



### content as we develop this industry. 4



### And then the vision is to use this first 5


### demonstration p roject as a test bed to inform 6



### best practices for future projects so that we can 7


### compete with more traditional energy sources, and 8



### this Clean Power Plan is an important part of 9



### making sure that this vision becomes a reality. 10



### So I thank you for this opport unity to 11



### submit this comment. 12



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. Just 13



### out of curiosity, how big are the six turbines? 14



### MR. RITTER: They ' ll be three megawatt 15


### machines, three megawatts each. So it ' s an 18 16



### megawatt project in total. Small scale pilot 17



### pr oject, again, really just intended to be a 18



### first step toward building the industry, test out 19



### some engineering innovations that solve the 20



### unique challenges of doing offshore wind in the 21



### Great Lakes, most importantly, the ice challenges 22

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### and the soil challeng es, and we ' re creating those 1


### innovations and testing them, and be able to 2



### deploy them at a larger scale on large utility 3



### scale projects in the future, particularly in 4


### Lake Erie, but really all throughout the Great 5



### Lakes. 6



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 7



### COURT RE PORTER: Could you spell your last 8



### name? 9



### MR. RITTER: Oh, it ' s Eric Ritter, 10



### R

- i

- t

- t

- e

- r. 11



### MR. POWERS: Mr. Cameron? 12



### MR. CAMERON: Good morning. Good morning 13



### and thank you for the opportunity to speak 14


### concerning the proposed Clean Power Plan. My 15



### name is Paul Cameron. I ' m the business manager 16



### of Local 459 of the International Brotherhood of 17



### Electrical Workers located in Johnstown, 18



### Pennsylvania. 19



### I am here to speak on behalf of the 2,000 20



### members I represent and the jobs they have earned 21



### through hard wo rk and dedication to an industry 22

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### that provides safe and reliable energy to our 1



### areas and beyond. 2



### I am here today because our members are 3



### concerned about the possible loss of the family 4


### sustaining jobs due to the EPA ' s Proposed Clean 5



### Power Plan. 6



### The EPA ' s proposal for Clean Power Plan 7


### will not only eliminate more than 150,000 family 8



### and community sustaining jobs, but it will also 9



### have minimal effect on global greenhouse 10



### emissions as a whole. 11



### We cannot support such a proposal that 12



### will directly have the devastating effect to so 13



### many of our members whom Local 459 represents. 14


### Recognizing the minimal overall impact 15


### predicted by the IBEW, this rule will accomplish 16



### to our global environment, I speak on behalf of 17



### the members when we respectfully ask for the EP A 18



### to look at the devastating consequences in the 19



### local communities that will be in dire need of 20



### assistance soon after the closure of these 21



### generating plants. 22

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### Dozens of local 459 members are second 1


### generation workers who, like their forefathers, 2



### are relyin g on the good wages and benefits earned 3



### for performing the maintenance and operation 4


### responsibilities to keep a reliable, 5



### non

- interrupted power flow of electricity to the 6



### homes and businesses throughout the northeast. 7


### These second generation of power plan t 8



### workers, like their parents before them, live in 9



### the same communities where they are also raising 10



### and educating their children, and supporting the 11


### local economy by buying automobiles from local 12



### dealerships, supporting the local shopping 13



### centers and resta urants, paying the local taxes, 14


### attending school functions and the list goes on 15



### and on. 16



### The EPA will end the way of life as these 17


### people have known it for generations. The 18



### families, local businesses and communities are 19



### the big losers with this proposal. The power 20



### plant work force is one part of those who will be 21



### impacted. 22

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### The Homer City Plant, alone, generates 1


### its electricity from nearly all Pennsylvania 2



### mined coal. Again, generation after generation 3



### of coal miners and the communities they live in 4



### will be decimated. 5


### I would like to tell you a story about 6



### Giuseppe Cameroni. Joseph, as he was known, was 7


### 19 years old when he immigrated from Italy in 8



### 1889 and started working in the Pennsylvania coal 9



### fields. 10



### After completing sixth grades of 11



### education, his son, Luis Hall Cameroni, went to 12



### work in the mines like his father. Like my great 13



### grandfather and my grandfather, Joseph and Luis 14


### Cameroni, my livelihood also relies on coal. 15


### This industry has provided a variety of 16



### life

- sustaining American dream type jo bs needed 17


### and has made this company a land of

-- this 18



### country a land of opportunity for millions just 19



### like my great grandfather, Giuseppe Cameroni. 20



### The American dream realized by my great 21



### grandfather still lives four generations later 22

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### through me. 1


### Finding winners with a proposal this 2



### drastic is very challenging. I ask that the EPA 3



### reconsider and give technology time to find a 4



### feasible solution that works for all. 5


### In a time when a family sustaining job is 6



### so rare, and on behalf of my 2,000 members, I as k 7


### that you please consider the overwhelming fallout 8



### this will create to them any communities, tax 9



### basis relying on the income these jobs provide, 10



### from the railroad workers, the trade unions, the 11


### truck drivers who deliver the nearly 3,000 12



### deliveries a day, the local police forces that 13



### protects and serves, the police departments and 14



### the rescue workers and all the countless shops 15



### and restaurants. 16



### It is too soon to pull the plug on the 17


### coal industry in our country. The labor force 18



### that has been providing deca des of safe and 19



### reliable electricity for generations deserves 20



### better, and so do our families. Thank you for 21



### your time. 22

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### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. 1



### COURT REPORTER: Can you spell your last 2



### name? 3



### MR. CAMERON: Cameron, C

- a

- m

- e

- r

- o

- n. 4



### MR. POWERS: The next two speakers are 5


### Timothy Barr and Doug Hunt, and then we ' re going 6



### to take a five or ten minute break. 7


### MR. BARR: My name is Timothy Barr, and I 8



### am an unaffiliated citizen. Gathered here 9



### together as a city and as a nation, we have to 10



### make a cho ice between two kinds of invisibility. 11


### The first kind of invisibility is what we have 12



### right now, is the invisibility of injustice. We 13



### know because of our best minds and our science, 14


### what carbon emissions are going to do in 15


### relationship to climate change, but we cannot see 16



### the carbon that is being emitted that is in our 17


### air right now. We will see the effects, however. 18



### You will see the effects of hurricanes 19



### that will have names, but the victims will remain 20



### nameless. We will see the effects of droughts 21



### t hat will devastate our farmers, and they will 22

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### struggle with the pain, alone. We will see the 1


### effects of ozone and particulate matter on 2



### children who can no longer breath easily because 3



### they have developed asthma and respiratory 4



### syndromes. 5



### But if we all ow injustice to remain 6



### invisible, when we cry for justice against all of 7



### these concerns, the realities that have caused 8



### them will no longer be able to be changed and the 9



### time for justice will have passed. 10



### This is what we will choose if we ignore 11



### the sci ence that has been produced, and this is 12



### the invisibility that I stand against today. 13



### But there is another kind of invisibility 14


### that we can choose. It is the invisibility of 15


### justice. Because if we

-- if the EPA does choose 16



### to go forward with this plan , and we have the 17


### support of the public, there will be many people 18



### involved in this action who will also remain 19



### nameless. We will have those who you have 20



### already heard testify today. Coal miners and 21



### their families, who will have to make sacrifices. 22

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### We w ill have the regulators who will have 1


### to be diligent. We will have the coal companies 2



### who also will have to make sacrifices, and the 3



### entire nation who potentially will have to pay 4


### more for energy in the short term, but we know 5



### that we will save in the lon g term. 6



### But this kind of invisibility is what 7



### make actions noble. Because in the future our 8



### children will live in a better world. It means 9



### that they won ' t know who to thank. It means that 10



### we will not get rewarded for what we choose to do 11



### today. 12



### But this kind of invisibility of doing 13



### what is the right thing to do, even when no one 14


### will recognize it in the future, is what makes 15


### America great. We should choose the invisibility 16



### of justice over the invisibility of injustice, 17



### not only for our future but f or who we are as a 18



### nation. Thank you very much. 19



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 20



### MR. HUNT: Good morning. My name is 21



### Reverend Douglas Hunt. I ' m ordained clergy and 22

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### serving as Vice

- President of Pennsylvania 1


### Interfaith Power and Light. 2



### IPL is a national orga nization connecting 3



### over 30,000 congregations through 39 state 4


### affiliates working with people of all faiths and 5


### spiritual paths to meet the growing threat of 6



### global warming. 7



### I commend the Environmental Protection 8



### Agency for their proposal for reducing car bon 9



### dioxide and other harmful emissions from existing 10



### power plants, and urge its implementation as soon 11


### as possible. 12



### I have two granddaughters, Rachel and 13



### Guenevere. They, and all children, should be 14


### able to live and grow in a world that is diverse 15



### and b eautiful, can nurture their spirits, fill 16



### them with wonder, awe and a sense of connection 17



### with all creation. 18



### Considering the hours you have already 19



### spent in these rooms, I am sure that you have 20



### heard many speakers far more qualified than I 21



### tell you that o ver 97 percent of active climate 22

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### scientists affirm the reality of global warming 1


### and its current and potential long term impacts. 2



### In addition to the love and concern I 3



### have for children and all that lives on our 4


### garden planet, it is clear to me that doing all 5



### that I can to reduce the threats from climate 6



### change is an urgent, moral and existential 7


### responsibility. 8



### Reducing our contribution to climate 9



### change is a moral issue, because it is an issue 10



### of justice, written very large. The United 11



### Nations estimate d last year that there are 12



### already at least 100 million climate refugees 13



### around the world. 14


### As usual, the worst impacts of global 15


### climate change are affecting first and most 16



### dramatically people living in poverty, women and 17



### children here and around the worl d? It is 18



### monumentally unjust that those who have done the 19



### least to create the climate crisis are affected 20



### the most immediately and directly by 21



### consequences. 22

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### Effectively addressing the underlying 1


### causes of climate change is also an existential 2



### necessity. Our changing climate is a current 3



### crisis, threatening all living things on the 4



### planet. 5


### We must respond now to the crisis and its 6



### consequences. Increasing temperature extremes, 7



### strong storms, drought, floods are already 8



### playing a major role in devastati ng homes and 9



### families. 10



### Our changing climate has become more 11


### unpredictable and more deadly. In a dramatically 12



### warmed and not too distant future, the 13



### intensified and more frequent events would play a 14


### greater role in determining how people live. And 15



### increa singly who will live and who will die. 16



### This is an existential question. We need 17


### only remember Katrina, Sandy, our current 18



### droughts in the southwest, floods on the east 19



### coast, forest fires throughout the west that have 20



### shown the fingerprints of global war ming. 21



### I could go on circling the planet in 22

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### naming events and catastrophes where people have 1


### suffered dramatic impacts. 2



### As Bishop Desmond Tutu told the leaders 3



### of the Canadian Government, only those who don ' t 4


### want to listen, only those who want to be bli nd 5



### can ' t see that we are sitting on a powder keg. 6



### If we don ' t do something urgently and quickly, we 7



### won ' t have a world. Climate change is, indeed, 8



### and existential issue. 9



### I want to mention that for a part of my 10



### struggle through life, I did work at the 11



### U niversity of Tennessee in the Agricultural 12



### Economics Department, and I am convinced that it 13



### is possible to transition workers to good jobs 14


### and out of an industry that is suffering. 15


### The University of Tennessee, Agriculture 16



### Department did the transition pla n for tobacco 17



### workers. Tobacco workers all over the southeast 18



### were literally put out of work. They lost their 19



### farms. They lost their livelihoods and the 20



### communities lost a source of income. 21



### But that project was successful because 22

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### it was well planned. It had community, industry 1


### and government support and virtually all

-- I 2



### think it was 96 percent of the displaced workers 3



### and farm owners were able to be reoriented to a 4


### new lifestyle and a standard of living. 5


### So I guess I should quit. The timer has 6



### gone off. But I do know that such transitions 7


### are possible, and I, too, am concerned about 8



### workers and their future. I just encourage you 9



### to move as quickly as possible, much more quickly 10



### than the five years it has take n to get to the 11


### coal ash regulation, ha ving testified at both 12



### Charlotte and Knoxville on that tragedy. Thank 13



### you so much for the opportunity

-- 14



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. 15



### We ' ll now take a short break. It is 16



### 10:23

-- I ' ll call it 10:24 on my watch. Why 17



### don ' t we start again at 25 t ill 11:00, so that ' s 18



### about an 11 minute break. 19



### [Recess from 10:24 to 10:35 a.m.] 20



### MR. POWERS: I think we ' ll reopen the 21



### hearing. We have the next panel will be Dorcas 22

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### Evans

- Miller and Deb Eutsler. And on deck behind 1


### them are Jeff Kelley, Don Vickers and Denise 2



### Garrett. 3



### So let me call up Dorcas Evans

- Miller and 4



### Deb Eutsler. 5



### MS. EVANS

- MILLER: Good morning. 6



### MR. POWERS: Good morning. 7



### MS. EVANS

- MILLER: My name is Dorcas 8



### Evans

- Miller and I ' m reading for Jane Hovde from 9



### Haverford, PA. She could not be h ere. 10



### COURT REPORTER: Could you spell the 11



### names? 12



### MS. EVANS

- MILLER: My name or her name? 13



### COURT REPORTER: Both. 14



### MS. EVANS

- MILLER: My name is 15



### D

- o

- r

- c

- a

- s, Dorcaas, Evans, E

- v

- a

- n

- s hyphen 16



### Miller, M

- i

- l

- l

- e

- r. And the person I ' m 17


### reading for is Jan e, J

- a

- n

- e, Hovde, H

- o

- v

- d

- e. 18



### COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 19



### MS. EVANS

- MILLER: Is that it? From 20



### Haverford, PA. 21



### And she represents the Delco Action 22

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### Seniors, affiliated with the Pennsylvania 1



### Alliance for Retired Americans. 2



### " As grandmothers and grandfathe rs, we are 3



### proudly concerned with the future welfare of our 4


### grandchildren and great

- grandchildren. We 5


### believe the vast majority of the world scientists 6



### when they tell us that we are already 7


### experiencing serious consequences from climate 8



### change, and that i ndustrial carbon emissions 9



### affect the pace and scope of that change. " 10



### " Carbon pollution also produces an 11


### increase in respiratory and asthma related 12



### conditions. We, therefore, support whole 13



### heartedly the EPA ' s current proposals for 14


### limiting carbon emissio ns. They are both 15



### reasonable and long overdue. " 16



### " If implemented, they will help greatly 17



### to ensure that our descendants and the world ' s 18



### descendants will live in a healthier and more 19



### stable world. " 20



### " Living as we do in Pennsylvania, we are 21



### sensitive to t hose who worry about the economic 22

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### impact of the proposed regulations. We believe, 1


### however, that new jobs in a growing environmental 2



### industry of conservation and alternative fuels 3



### will more than offset losses due to any of the 4



### EPA ' s regulations. " 5



### " In our view, the EPA carbon emission 6



### proposals are critically important and should be 7


### implemented with all possible speed. " Thank you. 8



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 9



### MS. EUTSLER: Hi. My name is Deb 10



### Eutsler, D

- e

- b, E

- u

- t

- s

- l

- e

- r, and I ' m speaking 11


### today for Cherie Eichholz, C

- h

- e

- r

- i

- e, 12



### E

- i

- c

- h

- h

- o

- l

- z. 13



### MR. POWERS: Yes, please proceed. 14



### MS. EUTSLER: " My name is Cherie 15



### Eichholtz. I ' m the Executive Director of the 16



### Philadelphia Chapter of Physicians for Social 17


### Responsibility. " 18



### " Physicians for Social Responsibili ty is 19



### a national non

- profit organization which includes 20



### nearly 35,000 physicians, nurses and other health 21



### professionals. Our Philadelphia Chapter 22

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### represents the medical and public health 1


### community that advocates policies and practices 2



### aimed at preventing violence and addressing 3



### environmental threats to health. " 4



### " As a long

- time advocate of policies to 5


### protect the environment in Philadelphia and on 6



### the west coast, I have organized health 7


### professionals to increase awareness of threats to 8



### health that medicine cannot cure. " 9



### " Unfortunately, we live in an era where 10



### these threats are not only part of our daily 11


### life, but they run rampant and constantly impact 12



### how we live. " 13



### " Today I am here on behalf of thousands 14


### of Philadelphia area health professionals to 15



### suppor t passage of the EPA ' s new rules concerning 16



### reducing carbon emissions from power plants. 17


### Seeking to reduce our nation ' s overall carbon 18



### footprint by 30 percent within the next 15 years, 19



### the proposal Clean Power Plan represents a 20



### realistic and achievable pl an that will 21



### positively affect our health and that of future 22

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### generations. " 1



### " As the EPA well knows, Pennsylvania is 2



### one of the United States leading suppliers of 3



### fossil fuel emissions, and as a recent Physicans 4


### for Social Responsibility report finds, coal 5


### pollutants have been linked to four of the five 6



### leading causes of death in our nation, including 7



### cancer, stroke, heart disease and chronic lower 8



### respiratory disease. " 9



### " Therefore, as health representatives of 10



### the most populous Pennsylvania city, we feel 11



### es pecially compelled to make sure the EPA knows 12



### we feel strongly about these new rules. And 13



### while we would certainly prefer that guarantees 14


### for nuclear power were eliminated, as anything 15



### nuclear represents yet another threat to health, 16



### we, again, believe th is proposal is a solid step 17



### forward. " 18



### " In addition to my coming to you as a PSR 19



### representative, I am also here as a concerned 20



### spouse. My husband, Frank, struggles daily with 21



### chronic asthma. His day beings with the use of 22

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### three different inhalers, follow ed by half an 1


### hour or more of hacking, coughing and gagging, 2



### and then throughout the day the effects of his 3



### asthma come and go, frequently depending upon the 4


### air quality of where we find ourselves. " 5



### " It is not uncommon for Frank to find it 6



### extremely diffi cult to simply breath, and his 7


### asthma is often triggered by seemingly innoxious 8



### changes in the environment. " 9



### " As his wife, I watch him gag and choke 10



### and gasp for air, and I am personally and 11


### poignantly aware of the ways our warming and 12



### changing environmen t affect his breathing. " 13



### " And while Frank thoroughly enjoys hot 14



### summers, I know and we know that the earth ' s 15


### temperature is rising and this increase will only 16



### have further devastating effects on him, on us 17


### and on the future global community. " 18



### " Frank is h ardly alone in his daily 19



### struggles. In Philadelphia 25 percent of kids 20



### suffer from asthma. That means one in five kids 21



### is wheezing and coughing and gasping for air 22

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### every single day. And on days when weather is 1


### extreme, their struggle is that much worse. " 2



### " It is simply not right that he and, 3



### indeed, all Americans, and all of humanity are at 4


### risk as the quality of our environment declines. 5


### For decades the energy industry has forced its 6



### risky, unhealthy and virtually unchecked 7


### practices down America ' s thro ats as increasingly 8



### larger targets of fossil fuels are dumped into or 9



### atmosphere. It is long past time for this 10



### insanity to end. The EPA, the federal government 11



### and our state and local governments are 12



### responsible for protecting human health from a 13



### pletho ra of threats, including those borne in our 14



### environment. " 15



### " As a representative of thousands of 16



### Philadelphia area health professionals, as a 17


### concerned wife and as someone who sincerely cares 18



### about the legacy we leave for future generations, 19



### I urge the EPA to move forward with these rules 20



### in order to protect human and environmental 21



### health from the real and persistent threats 22

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### climate change poses. " Thank you. 1



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. Next 2



### will be Jeff Kelley and Don Vickers. 3



### MR. KELLEY: My name is Jeff Kelley, 4



### spelled J

- e

- f

- f, K

- e

- l

- l

- e

- y. Good morning, my 5


### name is Jeff Kelley. I am President and General 6



### Manager of Vindex Energy Corporation, a 7


### subsidiary of Arch Coal. Vindex and Arch 8



### appreciates the opportunity to share publicly the 9



### following comments in response to the EPA ' s 10



### proposed emission guidelines for states to 11



### follow: 12



### Vindex Energy operates surface and deep 13



### coal mines in the Allegany and Garrett County, 14


### Maryland and Grant County, West Virginia. We 15


### produce in excess of 600,000 tons of coal a year 16



### to supply local power generators, which in turn 17


### supplies electricity for the eastern United 18



### States. 19



### Vindex employs approximately 95 full time 20



### employees with an annual payroll, including 21



### benefits of 9.2 million dollars. 22

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### The power generator ' s transformation of 1


### our coal and that of other suppliers into low 2



### cost stable fuel of electricity is a virtual 3



### national service that is now in jeopardy due to 4



### EPA ' s proposed regulations. The United States ' 5



### success since the industrial revolution has been 6



### d ue mainly to the abundance of cheap, affordable 7


### power to supply our factories, businesses and 8



### homes. In large part this has come from coal. 9



### EPA ' s Proposal threatens continued 10



### domestic coal utilization in the hopes of 11


### preventing global climate change, but will not 12



### meaningfully or economically determine

-- deliver 13



### on this objective. 14


### U.S. power plants are responsible for a 15


### relatively small percentage of global greenhouse 16



### gas emissions, about four percent. EPA ' s 17


### proposal will reduce global greenhouse emissi ons 18



### by a tiny amount, less than one percent, at a 19



### cost projected by the Agency, itself, of 4.2 to 20



### 8.8 billion dollars per year in exchange for 21



### reducing coal utilization for power generation, 22

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### American consumers, my family and I will receive 1


### rising electric prices and reduced electric power 2



### reliability. 3



### The EPA estimates that this rule will 4


### increase electric prices between six and seven 5


### percent nationally by 2020. This increase masks 6



### substantial higher increases in some states, 7


### including my own, West Virgin ia, that generates 8



### most of its electrical power, 95 percent, from 9



### coal. 10



### Rate increases will fall 11


### disproportionately on lower income and middle 12



### income families. Since 2001, energy costs have 13



### increased by 27 percent from middle and lower 14



### income families, while their incomes have 15


### declined by 22 percent. The increase also places 16



### a significant burden on U.S. businesses for which 17


### affordable electricity provides a critical 18



### operating advantage in competitive global 19



### markets. 20



### Also, power plants are only a first step 21



### of the EPA ' s broader greenhouse agenda. New 22

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### rules restricting emissions from landfills, 1


### refineries, pulp and paper mills, iron and steel 2



### production, livestock operation, and cement 3



### manufacturing will follow. Lastly, the price of 4


### all goods and servi ces will increase, further 5


### harming all Americans. 6



### Power supply in the U.S. is reliable 7



### because of adequate non

- intermittent baseload 8



### generating capacity. The primary fuel powering 9



### this generation is coal. It is sourced by U.S. 10



### power generators, predomin antly from domestic 11


### supply sources which have limited domestic and 12



### foreign markets. 13



### If utilities are forced to comply with 14



### the EPA ' s proposal as they stand, compliance 15


### costs as high as 28 billion dollars a year, job 16



### losses of up to four million American jobs and 17



### the forced shutdown of over half of the U.S. coal 18



### fired plants will occur. 19



### Since 2005, American power plants have 20



### reduced CO2 emissions by 21 percent, and are 21



### projected to remain 19 percent below 2005 levels 22

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### through 2020. It must be noted that C O2 1


### emissions from U.S. power plants represent only 2



### four percent of global greenhouse gas emissions. 3



### No matter how stringent the EPA approach, 4


### the climate effects will be meaningless, but the 5


### costs will be very high. 6



### An example of the true reduction, if all 7


### U.S. fired power plants were eliminated today, 8



### the global temperature change through 2050 would 9



### be reduced by less than one

- twentieth of a 10



### degree, and the reduction of sea level rise would 11



### be less than one

- twenty

- fifth of an inch, which 12



### is less than t he thickness of a dime. 13



### Many other countries continue to increase 14


### their use of coal, while the EPA is taking 15


### unilateral action that penalizes the U.S. 16



### economy. The U.S. has led the world in reduction 17


### of CO2 emissions since 2005. During that time, 18



### U.S. e missions have fallen while China has 19



### increased by 69 percent and India about 53 20



### percent. 21



### Emission growth in China and India count 22

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### for 90 percent of the growth in emissions for 1



### 2005 through 2012. In summary, the EPA ' s 2



### proposal neglectably reduces greenho use emissions 3



### and poses higher electric costs on the U.S. 4


### household, and economy, and industry, reduces the 5


### reliability of the power grid and neither is 6



### permissible under existing law or technically 7



### feasible. 8



### For those reasons, Arch Coal respectfully 9



### re quests that the Agency withdraw its proposal. 10



### Thank you for your time and attention. 11


### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Mr. Vickers? 12



### MR. VICKERS: Don Vickers, D

- o

- n, 13



### V

- i

- c

- k

- e

- r

- s. 14


### Good morning, I am Don Vickers, Regional 15



### Vice

- President of Northern Appa lachian Operations 16



### of Arch Coal. Our company is one of the world ' s 17


### largest coal producers, selling 131 million tons 18



### in 2013, which represents about 14 percent of the 19



### total U.S. coal supply. 20



### Arch Coal operates mines in Wyoming, 21



### Colorado, Illinois, Kentuck y, Virginia, Maryland 22

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### and West Virginia, covering each of the major 1


### coal producing regions of the United States. 2



### I wish to comment on three of the reasons 3



### why the Clean Power Plan as proposed by EPA is 4



### flawed. These reasons are number, no discernable 5



### cli mate impact. U.S. power plants are 6



### responsible for only four percent of global 7


### greenhouse gas emissions, and EPA ' s proposal will 8



### reduce these emissions by less than a percent. 9



### If the United States totally eliminated 10



### coal fired power plants by 2017, the r esult would 11


### be a one percent reduction in the atmospheric 12



### carbon dioxide concentrations and a one

- fiftieth 13



### of one degree in warming in the year 2050. 14


### My second reason, costly economic impact. 15


### The EPA estimated the cost for carbon regulation 16



### to be between 4.2 billion and 8.8 billion dollars 17


### per year. In exchange for reducing coal 18



### utilization for power generation, the American 19



### consumer will have to suffer rising electricity 20



### prices and reduced electric grid reliability. 21



### UPA estimates that it ' s proposal wil l 22

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### increase electricity prices between six and seven 1


### percent nationally in 2020. While the nationwide 2



### average increase looks relatively small, it masks 3



### substantially higher increases in individual 4



### states. 5



### These increases will fall 6



### disproportionately on m iddle class and lower 7



### income families that can least afford it. The 8



### increases will also place an immense burden on 9



### U.S. businesses, which employ those Americans, 10



### businesses which depend on affordable law 11


### enforcement energy to provide a critical 12



### operating advantage in competitive global 13



### markets. 14


### My third reason I want to comment on. 15


### Threat to low cost reliable power. Power 16



### generators transform our abundant, affordable and 17



### reliable coal into a low cost stable flow of 18



### electricity on which the United State s economy 19



### has been built, and economy that will be 20



### jeopardized by EPA ' s proposal. 21



### This proposal increases the share of 22

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### electricity generated from natural gas, which has 1


### a variety of alternative markets outside of power 2



### generation. Natural gas is delivere d to power 3



### plants via pipeline systems on a just

- in

- time 4


### basis. And as witnessed during this past severe 5


### winter, delivery on particularly cold days can be 6



### constrained. 7


### In short, a dramatic move away from coal 8



### threatens the reliability of the electricity 9



### power system. In addition, the rapid retirement 10



### of coal fueled plants will further strain 11


### reliable baseload power availability. The mid 12



### continental independent systems operator, which 13



### operates in the middle of the country, reports 14


### that it already faces a generation shortfall due 15


### to previous EPA rulings. 16



### Federal Energy Regulatory Commissioner 17


### Muller concluded that the electricity sector is 18



### now living on the edge. If we have a hot summer 19



### in 2016, he ' s predicting rolling blackouts in the 20



### mid

- continental independent systems operator 21



### area, the middle of the country. 22

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### So in summary, the EPA ' s proposal has no 1


### effective impact on reducing greenhouse 2



### emissions. It imposes higher cost of electricity 3



### to U.S. households and industry, and reduced the 4


### reliability o f the grid. 5



### So for these reasons and others that I 6



### did not have time to cover in my five minutes, 7


### quite respectfully requests that the Agency 8



### withdraw its proposed plan. Thank you for your 9



### time and attention. 10



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. The next two 11



### spea kers are Denise Garrott and Sister Donna 12



### Zwigart. 13



### MS. GARROTT: I ' m Denise Garrett. 14



### D

- e

- n

- i

- s

- e, G

- a

- r

- r

- o

- t

- t. Thanks for the 15


### opportunity to express my concerns. 16



### America ' s primary goal must be abundant 17



### clean air, drinkable water, fertile soil, safe 18



### pu blic health and curtailing climate change. 19



### Using coal to power a turbine designed over 150 20



### years ago, running with 30 percent efficiency is 21



### not smart, safe, or sane. 22

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### Power plants are the biggest source of 1


### carbon pollution driving climate change, and 60 2



### p ercent of that coal just goes up in smoke, 3



### raining down particulates, heavy metals, arsenic, 4


### cyanide, mercury and creating mountains of toxic 5



### ash. 6



### America is leading the world over in 7


### production of destructive carbon. We pollute 8



### more than countries with billions more in 9



### population. American ranks 13 out of 16 10



### developed nations in energy efficiency. What a 11



### waste. 12



### Power plants are causing climate change 13



### that disturbs the jet stream. Sunbathing in 14


### Alaska, frigid cold in Pennsylvania, snow in 15



### Egypt, dea dly drought in Syria, frightening civil 16



### unrest results. Violent ferocious storms 17


### encircle the globe. 18



### In America, because of climate change, we 19



### already spent billions on super storms Katrina 20



### and Sandy. Drought and weather extremes tally 21



### way over 376 bil lion dollars in extreme weather 22

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### costs, even 30 billion dollars in lost bee 1


### pollination. 2



### California, which produces 60 percent of 3



### our vegetables, fruits and nuts suffers from the 4


### worst extreme drought in 400 years. Today, way 5



### over half of California is su ffering from the 6



### most extreme drought that ' s ever been seen there, 7



### and that ' s where our food comes from. 8



### Fighting fires in drought zones cost 9



### billions more. American cannot afford climate 10



### change. What are the global costs of this 11


### negligent misuse? Wha t does America ' s coal 12



### extraction and burning cost the rest of the 13



### world. Our willful ignorance prevails. 14



### Scientists and environmentalist know 15



### better. We have to change our energy source from 16



### fossil fuels to renewables and head toward a 17



### healthy planet. 18



### Regulating coal is not a war on coal 19



### miners. Coal mine owners have subjected their 20



### miners to unhealthy conditions, denied them black 21



### lung benefits and cut fair job opportunities. 22

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### Those miners can join 120,000 existing solar 1


### energy workers. Miners can install wind 2



### generators on the few mountaintops unspoiled by 3



### cannibalistic coal removal. 4


### A solar or wind spill will not leave us 5


### with decades of pollution. Fossil fuels can 6



### remain in the earth for free. American can make 7


### our environment our economy and employee every 8



### miner while doing it. 9



### I live in a sacrifice zone from Marcellus 10



### Shale drilling, wondering how that gas could be 11


### used for energy independence d LNG export. Or 12



### for security while poisoning the water, air and 13



### land. They ' re making a killing on Marcellus 14


### shale drilling and building an LNG plant in a 15


### coastal flood zone, costing billions of dollars 16



### that will add to global carbon pollution so they 17



### can liquefy it for export is not a sane plan. 18



### This LNG export plan would add untold 19



### costs to Americ a and fuel global climate change. 20



### I hope this EPA carbon energy plan is the 21



### beginning of ending this fossil fueled nightmare. 22

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### Thank you, EPA, but please do not leave 1


### the decisions up to our Pennsylvania legislature 2



### or DEP. They already have voted to bl ock funding 3



### for renewable energy to gag doctors, to promote 4


### drillers, do away with endangered species and 5


### prevent environmental protection in violation of 6



### the state constitution. 7



### Instead, let ' s look ahead to a healthy 8



### planet with EPA in the lead, protecti ng food and 9



### water sources. It ' s already the number one goal 10



### of most other developed countries. Germany has 11


### gone solar. Denmark relies on wind. Many 12



### African countries are way ahead of us. They 13



### skipped land lines for phones and electricity, 14


### cutting infr astructure and maintenance costs. 15


### Africa, many parts of it have five times higher 16



### internet speed. What ' s holding America back? 17


### Earth cannot afford climate change. 18



### There ' s overwhelming public support for climate 19



### change action. Make a healthy environmen t the 20



### economy. 21



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 22

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### MS. ZWIGART: My name is Sister Donna, 1



### D

- o double n, a, Zwigart, Z, the last letter in 2



### the alphabet, w, like in William, i, g, like in 3



### George, a

- r

- t. 4



### I am a Sister of the Sisters of St. 5



### Francis of the Neumann Comm unities, whose 452 6



### members minister mainly in the United States. We 7



### also have missions in Africa and in Peru. 8



### I want to extend my gratitude to you for 9



### eliciting comments from the citizens on the 10



### proposed regulations for existing coal fired 11



### power plants. 12



### As you may know, St. Francis was declared 13



### the Patron of Ecology by the U.N. about 35 years 14


### ago. You may not know that. So I feel kind of 15


### qualified as a Franciscan to make my testimony 16



### here today. 17



### St. Francis was not about bird baths and 18



### gardens. His insights were about relationships. 19



### We are all brothers and sisters in this kindom of 20



### earth. Note I said kindom, k

- i

- n. 21



### We are brothers and sisters ' keepers as 22

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### part of the family of all creation. We are kin, 1


### so whatever affects or harms our kin is of g reat 2



### concern to us. If the air we breathe is 3



### polluted, the all of earth ' s family is hampered 4


### and cannot be healthy. We have seen evidence of 5


### this in our Pittsburgh region. 6



### We have one of the highest cases of lung 7


### cancer, COPD and asthma, especially in our 8



### children. Our pollution level is one of the 9



### highest in the United States. 10



### We Franciscans affirm and endorse the 11



### proposed EPA ' s clean air regulations for exiting 12



### coal fired power plants as this action will help 13



### to drive down the carbon emissions. 14



### If we take note, where many of the local 15


### coal fired power plants reside is in the low 16



### income neighborhoods. Poor people

-- and as 17



### Franciscans we have a mission to work for the 18



### poor

-- and communities suffer the worst of the 19



### consequences of climate change in epic flooding, 20



### prolonged droughts and heat waves. 21



### Our economy is also affected with loss of 22

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### jobs and increased medical costs in destruction 1


### of our planet. Our kin are suffering. They need 2



### to migrate to places throughout the world but can 3



### find none. Studies have shown that the victims 4


### of climate change provide an escalation of human 5


### trafficking, and these are our kin. 6



### I would ask the EPA to also include in 7


### their legislative ways to help our kin who are 8



### losing their jobs by providing education for ne w 9



### technological employment for them. Give our 10



### bright minds the incentives to discover new ways 11


### to solve our energy problems. Future generations 12



### are at risk in a climate altered planet. 13



### Do we care for our children, for our 14


### grandchildren, for their offspr ing? Burying our 15



### heads in the sand of denial of the effects of 16



### climate change for financial gain will not be a 17


### good investment for future generations. It is a 18



### poor ROI. 19



### Many groups have voiced their thoughts on 20



### climate change and the harmful alterations to our 21



### planet caused by carbon emissions as the previous 22

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### speaker said. Among our kin are the U.S. kin who 1


### speak for this legislation, are the conference of 2



### the Catholic bishops, the interfaith community 3



### here in our city, Franciscans throughout the 4



### world

-- and they ' re the biggest ones in the 5


### whole world, and Pope Francis, and also global 6



### environmentalists. 7


### Thank you for this opportunity to speak 8



### here and leave you with a quote that a favorite 9



### man, Pope Francis, reminded us in the world in 10



### May of this y ear, " Creation is a gift. It is a 11


### wonderful gift that God has given us so that we 12



### can care for it and use it for the benefit of 13



### all. Always with respect and gratitude. " And 14


### may God give you peace. 15



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. 16



### MS. ZWIGART: You ' re welcome. 17



### MR. POWERS: Our next two speakers are 18



### Shari Shapiro and Jay Vutera. 19



### MS. SHAPIRO: Good morning. I ' m Shari 20



### Shapiro, I ' m here on behalf of the International 21



### Code Council. I hope that I ' m going to give you 22

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### a little break from the overall issu e and take on 1


### a slightly more specific piece of this. 2



### The International Code Council

-- 3



### MR. POWERS: I ' m sorry, could you spell 4



### your name? 5



### MS. SHAPIRO: Oh, I ' m sorry. S

- h

- a

- r

- i, 6



### Shapiro, S

- h

- a

- p

- i

- r

- o. 7



### MR. POWERS: Thanks. 8



### MS. SHAPIRO: The Interna tional Code 9



### Council was established in 1994 as a non

- profit 10



### organization dedicated to developing a single set 11


### of comprehensive and coordinated building codes 12



### for the nation. And the I

- Codes, as they ' re 13



### called, are used in all 50 states either at the 14



### state level or at the jurisdiction level to 15


### regulate the safe and energy efficient 16



### performance of new buildings and major 17



### renovations. 18



### The I

- Codes includes the International 19



### Energy Conversation Code, or IECC, which 20



### addresses energy use in commercial and 21



### reside ntial buildings. Our colleagues over at 22

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### ASHRAE also publish a commercial energy code 1


### known as ASHRAE 90.1, which is incorporated by 2



### referencing into the I

- Codes. 3



### The IECC and the ASHRAE 90.1, which I ' ll 4


### just call the energy codes for this purpose, are 5



### up dated every three years, and reviewed and 6



### adopted by states. These energy codes have an 7


### unparalleled track record in achieving cost 8



### effective energy savings and carbon emission 9



### reductions. 10



### Therefore, while the IECC does not take a 11


### position on the regulat ion of carbon emissions by 12



### EPA, if you are going to implement the 13



### regulations, IECC urges EPA to specifically 14


### include the adoption of and compliance with 15


### energy and resource saving building codes as an 16



### allowable component of the state implementation 17



### plans. 18



### First, energy codes are able to reduce 19



### energy use by buildings at a critical moment in 20



### their life cycle when they are being designed and 21



### built. Most of the energy efficiency programs 22

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### that the states have implemented through their 1


### utility programs and so forth are directed at 2



### retrofits of buildings, but energy codes gets at 3



### this sector of our buildings, and their energy 4


### efficiency at that critical moment. 5


### The energy efficiency of buildings, which 6



### can last from 30 or to 50 years and beyond is set 7



### when tho se buildings are built. 8



### Like the difficulty in costs associated 9



### with adding carbon control mechanisms to existing 10



### power plants, this is the time when it is

-- when 11


### energy efficient features need to be added. 12



### In addition to the energy codes, the 13



### I

- Codes now include the International Green 14



### Construction Code, which is a model codification 15


### of green building practices that jurisdictions 16



### can adopt and enforce just like their more 17


### traditional building codes. 18



### The IGCC can achieve even greater energy 19



### and carbon emission savings at the time of 20



### construction through, for example, energy and 21



### carbon targets for that particular building, 22

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### siting, land views, on

- site renewables. 1


### Second, building codes have a track 2



### record of more than two decades of effectively 3



### reducing energy use and carbon emissions. 4


### Currently, the IECC is used or adopted in 5



### 47 states. In 2013 the Pacific Northwest 6



### National Laboratory, on behalf of your sister 7



### agency at DOE, assessed the energy carbon and 8



### cost savings from energy codes, retrospectiv ely 9



### back to 1992, and forward through 2040. And 10



### PNNL predicts that by 2040 energy codes can yield 11


### as much as 48 quads of fuel cycle energy savings 12



### and reduce carbon emissions by 3.7 billion metric 13



### tons. That ' s a lot. 14


### Third, in addition to saving energy in 15


### carbon emissions, the energy codes help Americans 16



### save money. The Department of Energy estimates 17


### that homes built through the 2012 IECC here in 18


### Pennsylvania will save an average of $515 per 19


### year on their energy costs, $8,630 over the 20



### course of a 30

- ye ar mortgage. 21



### On a national scale, DOE predicts an 22

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### additional 185.7 billion dollars in energy cost 1


### savings through 2040. 2



### Finally, unlike developing new programs, 3



### the states and jurisdictions already have the 4


### necessary legal, educational and enforcement 5



### me chanisms in place to regulate buildings through 6



### energy codes. No additional regulatory 7


### mechanisms are required in the vast majority of 8



### states to realize the energy savings and carbon 9



### reduction benefits of up to date codes. 10



### Despite these clear benefits, m ost states 11


### do not count energy code savings in their utility 12



### ratepayer funded energy efficiency programs. 13



### Instead, these programs focus on techniques that 14


### save energy in individual buildings or through 15


### specific equipment. 16



### This makes sense in the context of 17



### ratepayer programs where you ' re trying to achieve 18



### a one to one, dollar for dollar reduction, the 19



### increase to the energy cost versus the amount 20



### that the consumer can save by being engaged in 21



### the programs. 22

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### However, these constraints are not 1


### applicable to the Clean Power Plan. Consistent 2



### with the EPA ' s goals to allow states flexibility 3



### in their approach to energy savings, relying on a 4


### more diverse set of strategies, states should be 5



### encouraged to pursue the large amounts of energy 6



### efficiency investment an d resulting emissions 7


### avoidance that occur outside of these utility 8



### ratepayer funded programs. 9



### Therefore, IECC asks EPA to specifically 10



### reference energy and resource saving building 11


### codes in the list of acceptable state strategies 12



### for compliance with clea n power regulations. 13



### In the proposed rule, EPA expressed 14



### concern as to whether there are sufficient 15


### measurement and verification protocols available 16



### to accurately capture the energy and carbon 17


### savings from building energy codes. I want to 18



### address this co ncern directly. 19



### I direct EPA ' s attention to the work 20



### performed by PNNL and DOE to assess the savings 21



### attributable to DOE ' s Building Energy Codes 22

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### Program, which was published in October, 2013. 1



### In addition, ten states have included 2



### building energy code programs in their utility 3



### energy efficiency programs with different M and V 4



### protocols. 5


### Finally, there have been several research 6



### based M and V protocols, including two recent 7


### ones, specifically on M and V of energy codes by 8



### the Pacific Northwest Nationa l Lab, and a joint 9



### study by the Northeast Energy Efficiency 10



### Partnerships, the Edison Foundation, and the 11



### institute for market transformation. 12



### In conclusion, building energy and 13



### resource codes are a proven way of achieving 14


### energy, carbon and resource savin gs cost 15


### effectively, using legal and enforcement 16



### processes that already exist throughout the 17



### country. 18



### Therefore, we urge the EPA to 19



### specifically include adoption of up to date codes 20



### as a strategy for states to comply with the clean 21



### power carbon reduction targets. 22

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### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 1


### MS. SHAPIRO: Any questions that you may 2



### have? 3



### MR. POWERS: Do you have a written copy? 4



### MS. SHAPIRO: I do. 5



### MR. POWERS: That would be great. Mr. 6



### Butera? 7


### MR. BUTERA: Yes, thank you. My name is 8



### Jay Butera, that ' s J

- a

- y, B

- u

- t

- e

- r

- a, from 9



### Gladwyne, Pennsylvania, and I ' m here to support 10



### the rule that you have proposed with a couple of 11


### caveats and suggestions. 12



### We have a lot of rules and regulations in 13



### America, and while some of those can be debated, 14



### there ' s a whole category of rules that cannot be 15


### debated whose principles are so strong, so 16



### morally right and so clearly needed by society 17


### that nobody should dispute them. These are 18



### typically the regulations that prevent people 19



### from harming each other, from stealing fro m each 20



### other, and from damaging other people ' s property. 21



### And I believe that the regulation you ' re 22

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### proposing falls squarely into this category. 1



### It ' s premise should be beyond debate. You ' ve 2



### proposed a rule that stops people from harming 3



### each other. It ' s as simple as that. Pollution 4


### hurts people. Pollution kills people. Pollution 5



### steals our children ' s future. 6



### And so I don ' t really understand how 7


### anyone can dispute that we need to reduce and 8



### restrict pollution. I don ' t understand when did 9



### we begin to think that it ' s okay to use the 10



### atmosphere as a dumping ground for toxic waste. 11


### Regulating carbon pollution is a 12



### particularly important thing for government to do 13



### because the harm that carbon is causing is not 14


### easily seen. CO2 is invisible, it ' s odorless and 15



### it ' s widely misunderstood. It ' s effects are so 16



### subtle and slow that people can ' t really see it 17


### with their eyes. You know, if someone throws 18



### trash on the sidewalk, you can clearly see that ' s 19



### a violation of rights and of decency, but carbon 20



### pollution is not so clear. That ' s why we rely on 21



### government to do something about this. 22

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### Ninety

- seven percent of scientists 1


### understand what carbon is doing, and you 2



### understand what carbon is doing, and that ' s why 3



### you need to act on this, regardless of protest 4



### and regardless of public opinion. 5


### And I wonder if those people who speak 6



### against this rule actually realize the magnitude 7


### of the damages that carbon is causing. Those 8



### coal miners who rallied here yesterday, they ' re 9



### good people with good intentions and I tru ly 10



### believe if they had the facts that you have, if 11


### they had the understanding about the cost and 12



### consequences of carbon pollution, that they would 13



### want to do the right thing too. 14



### And at the same time I believe that the 15


### United States needs to do the right thing for 16



### those coal miners. We owe them that much. We 17


### owe them a just transition, compensation, 18



### retraining. We need to bring new industries to 19



### their areas and we can do that as a nation. 20



### The one thing we can ' t do is allow them 21



### to derail the efforts to stop this dangerous 22

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### pollution. We cannot let the short term economic 1


### interest of a few thousand people derail 2



### irrational course of action to protect all of 3



### humanity and to protect the next thousand 4


### generations, and that ' s what I believe you ' re 5


### doing. 6



### Despite the t

- shirts and the sound bites, 7



### this is not a war on coal. This is a battle to 8



### save the planet, and it ' s a battle that we must 9



### win. 10



### Now, the one thing we can debate is how 11


### we go about reducing carbon pollution. I am 12



### still hopeful that Congress will come up with a 13



### market based plan to put a tax on carbon 14


### pollution so we can let the forces of capitalism, 15



### free markets and American innovation solve this 16



### problem. 17


### I support the efforts of Citizen ' s 18



### Climate Lobby to unify Congress around a 19



### gradually rising carbon tax with all revenues 20



### returned to households. Bills along this line 21



### are emerging in Congress and economists believe 22

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### it ' s the cost efficient way to address the 1



### problem. 2



### I realize that you cannot implement such 3



### a program, but I would ask th at you allow states 4


### to utilize a carbon tax as a way to meet the 5


### emissions reductions goals of the Clean Power 6



### Plan. And I believe you have the authority to do 7



### that. 8



### In closing, I would like to thank you for 9



### all the hard work that you have done to move 10



### t hese regulations forward. I know it ' s a 11


### difficult job and a big one, but your work is 12



### important, it ' s essential and it ' s a big step 13



### toward a rational carbon solution. Thank you. 14



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. Is 15


### there anybody else in the audience w ho would like 16



### to speak right now? If not, we ' ll take a five or 17



### ten minute break. It ' s about almost 20 of 12:00. 18



### We may or may not have a couple more speakers 19



### before the noontime break, but for now I ' ll just 20



### adjourn for five or ten minutes and we ' ll see if 21



### we get anymore cards. 22

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### [Recess from 11:36 to 11:46 a.m.] 1


### MR. POWERS: Good morning again, 2



### everybody. This is to reopen the panel. We have 3



### three more speakers before our lunch break, at 4


### least currently lined up, and we have a change in 5



### the panel up he re. 6



### Just so you know who ' s who, joining me is 7



### EPA ' s Regional Administrator for Region 3 out of 8



### Philadelphia, Shawn Garvin to my right, and Meg 9



### Victor had to catch a plane, so ably filling in 10



### for her is Andre Kreider, also from Region 3 in 11


### Philadelphia. 12



### The next speaker will be Jacqueline 13



### Patterson, followed by Kimberly Williams and 14


### Kevin Lusky. 15



### MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. 16



### MR. POWERS: Please spell your name for 17



### the court reporter. 18



### MS. PATTERSON: Sure. My name is 19



### Jacqueline, J

- a

- c

- q

- u

- e

- l

- i

- n

- e, P atterson, 20



### P

- a

- t

- t

- e

- r

- s

- o

- n. 21



### So in February of 2011, my father began 22

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### to complain of a cough, which worsened over six 1



### months until he was homebound and tethered to an 2



### oxygen machine. He was severely winded just 3



### walking from the living room to the kitchen to 4



### get a glass of water. 5



### Dad ' s diagnosis was pulmonary fibrosis, 6



### but my father never smoked a day in his life. 7



### His doctor stated that the scar tissue in his 8



### lungs was likely due to past exposure to 9



### environmental toxins from his workplace or 10



### otherwise. 11


### Dad spent 40 years residing within ten 12



### miles of the Fisk and Crawford Coal Plants in 13



### Chicago. We laid my father to rest on 14



### September 12th of 2011. 15



### How many more people must we bury before 16



### we ' re granted equal protection under the law? 17


### Approximately 68 percent of African Americans 18



### live within 30 miles of a coal plant. The impact 19



### is clear and the rates are respiratory illnesses 20



### in African Americans, even though we have lower 21



### rates of smoking, we are more likely to die of 22

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### lung disease. 1



### Nationwide, Afri can American children are 2



### twice as likely to die of asthma and three times 3



### more likely to be admitted to the hospital for an 4



### asthma attack

. 5


### We also see high asthma rates within the 6



### Latino American and Native American populations, 7


### who are also disproportio nately exposed to coal 8



### pollution. 9



### Carbon may not directly cause these 10



### health conditions, but it creates what scientists 11


### call domes that trap, concentrate and intensify 12



### the other toxins we breathe. With the mercury, 13



### arsenic, lead, dioxins and other pollu tants that 14


### come from coal plants in communities nationwide, 15


### these domes are, in effect, creating lethal gas 16



### chambers for communities that are host to these 17



### facilities. 18



### At the same time, carbon dioxide is the 19



### number one driver of climate change, and these 20



### plants are the leading source of carbon dioxide. 21



### Again, climate change affects us all, but it ' s 22

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### effects are felt hardest by communities and 1


### people who are politically, economically, 2



### physically and socially vulnerable. 3



### When I did hurricane relief after Ka trina 4


### and Rita, the throngs of folks who walked through 5



### the doors in the disaster recovery center were 6



### largely African American and largely low income. 7


### I also met scores of people with hearing 8



### impairments with no qualified interpreter to help 9



### them navigat e the system. 10



### I encountered people with HIV and AIDS 11



### who went weeks without access to their life 12



### preserving antiretroviral drugs. I met women who 13



### encountered sexual assault in the aftermath of 14



### the disaster. 15



### I met hundreds of people who had to 16



### completely start over after only escaping with 17


### their lives. And scientists say that Katrina, 18



### Rita, Sandy and so forth are only the tip of the 19



### iceberg. 20



### Growing up on the south side of Chicago, 21



### I lived in a food dessert, like so many people of 22

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### color and low income c ommunities. This means we 1



### had better access to Doritos or Cheetos than 2



### broccoli or strawberries. 3



### We already see how this plays out for 4


### communities who are suffering from heightened 5


### rates of obesity as well as hunger, and all of 6



### the health conditions tha t result from poor diet, 7


### such as diabetes, heart disease, high blood 8



### pressure, et cetera. 9



### Affordable access to nutritious foods 10



### will only lessen as climate change affects crops. 11


### In recent years we have seen farmers in Illinois, 12



### Iowa, Mississippi and beyo nd lose crops both to 13



### flood and drought. Again, scientists say we ' ve 14


### only begun to see these impacts. 15


### With my work with the NAACP, I have 16



### visited coastal communities from Florida, to 17



### Louisiana, to North Carolina to New York, some of 18



### whom are already expe riencing coastal erosion, 19



### and several of who are facing displacement in the 20



### next 20 years due to sea level rise and storm 21



### surge. 22

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### The cost of inaction on carbon pollution 1



### is the health, livelihood, culture, economic and 2



### social well

- being of communities wor ldwide, and 3



### vulnerable communities being hit first and worst. 4



### Therefore , we need strong carbon pollution 5


### standards to slow the path of devastation on 6



### which we are recklessly traveling, strong move 7



### that we aren ' t steering the ship from one 8



### disaster to anot her by myopically shifting to 9



### false solutions. Even the costly clean coal 10



### technologies were proven to effectively capture 11



### carbon. That wouldn ' t help the 76,000 coal 12



### miners who have died of black lung disease since 13



### 1968, or the folks who are drinking lead waters 14


### contaminated by coal ash ponds. 15


### Shifting to fracking continues to admit 16



### carbon from venting and flaring has been known to 17


### contaminate aquifers with its mystery cocktail of 18



### toxins and may even contribute to the increase in 19



### seismic activity that is causing earthquakes from 20



### Nebraska to Ohio and beyond. 21



### The folks knew the Fukushima Daiichi 22

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### plant would certainly have a cautionary tale 1


### about increasing our reliance on nuclear energy, 2



### particularly given that a number of America ' s 3



### nuclear reactors are bui lt on earthquake fault 4



### lines. 5


### We must establish aggressive targets for 6



### pollution reduction and significantly increase 7


### our focus in action on energy efficiency and 8



### clean energy. The National Renewable Energy 9



### Laboratory has found that we have vast amounts of 10



### solar, wind and geothermal potential, some of 11


### which is already being harnessed, creating new 12



### jobs. That ' s where we need to focus investment 13



### as we shift from harmful coal based energy 14


### production processes. 15


### Finally, we must ensure that each state ' s 16



### dev elopment of implementation plans are done 17


### inclusively so that equity based input is heeded 18



### and all stakeholders are heard, particularly 19



### communities that are most impacted by coal 20



### pollution. Thank you so much. 21



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Just in time 22

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### finishi ng. Thank you very much. Thank you very 1


### much. Kevin Lusky and Kimberly Williams. 2



### MR. GARVIN: And then we ' re going to have 3



### two more on deck before lunch, Andrew Grande and 4



### Bill Price. 5


### MR. POWERS: Do you want to go first? 6



### I ' m sorry, this is the way I ' ve got them, but if 7



### you ' d like to go first that ' s

-- 8



### MS. WILLIAMS: Okay, sure. 9



### MR. POWERS: Sure. 10



### MS. WILLIAMS: Hi. My name is Kimberly 11



### Williams. I ' ll keep this pretty brief. I am 23 12



### years old, and my experience has been growing up 13



### in school and at home I was taught that how we 14


### treat the earth matters. And that climate change 15


### is real, and that this is something that my 16



### generation will be dealing with. 17


### And this was something that, you know, as 18



### I went through science classes and I learned 19



### about i t, it all made sense. My parents taught 20



### me that we should recycle, and we should treat 21



### the earth responsibly. And so it just makes 22

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### sense to me that we should be doing everything 1


### that we can to tackle the largest single source 2



### of global warming. 3



### And base d on my experiences growing up, 4



### and what I ' ve been taught as what is important, 5



### it seems ridiculous to me that there ' s a question 6



### that this might be

-- whether or not this is the 7


### right thing to do, whether or not tackling global 8



### warming and taking the firs t meaningful step 9



### forward, and global warming is something that we 10



### should be doing. 11



### It ' s quite clear to me that if we don ' t 12



### move forward, that my generation, the people who 13



### are 23 are going to be bearing the burden and I 14



### think that that ' s real unfortunate for me and for 15



### my peers. 16



### So I applaud EPA for taking the step, and 17


### I encourage them to take it to the finish line 18



### for the sake of myself and other people just like 19



### me. 20



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 21



### MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 22

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### MR. LUSKY: My name is Kevin L usky. I am 1


### with a group called Pet Environment but I am 2



### reading on behalf of Andrew Sharp, who is an 3



### affiliate from Philadelphia. So a little bit a 4


### trek for him to get there, so I ' m reading it on 5



### his behalf. 6



### MR. POWERS: Can you spell your last 7



### name? 8



### M R. LUSKY: L

- u

- s

- k

- y. 9



### " My name is Andrew Sharpe and I live in 10



### Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I am in full support 11



### of the EPA ' s proposal standard. It should be 12



### implemented promptly and without being weakened 13



### in any way. " 14



### " Carbon pollution accelerates climat e 15


### change, contributes to more frequent and more 16



### violent extreme weather changes that costs 17


### communities the federal government and our 18



### economy billions of dollars each year and also 19



### threatens public health. " 20



### " Currently, we limit how much mercury, 21



### arsenic, soot and other air pollution that power 22

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### plants can dump into the air, but there is no 1


### federal limits on carbon pollution. " 2



### " The EPA has the regulatory power to 3



### limit carbon pollution per a bipartisan vote of 4


### Congress and confirmation by the supreme court in 5


### a decision written by the conservative Justice 6



### Antonin Scalia. " 7



### " Carbon pollution causing climate change 8



### is responsible for thousands of premature deaths, 9



### higher health risks of asthma attacks and other 10



### respiratory diseases, and hundreds of thousands 11



### o f missed worked days and low activity days. " 12



### " A study by the Clean Air Task Force 13



### estimates 13,000 American deaths were attributed 14


### to power plant pollution in 2010 alone. " 15



### " People may think that we don ' t feel any 16



### of these impacts personally, and there is a good 17


### reason for that. Power plant pollution does not 18



### impact Americans equally. Dirty air 19



### disproportionately affects low income communities 20



### as well as children, seniors and those who work 21



### and play outdoors. " 22

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### " Still, nearly half of Americans live in 1



### co untries or counties that have unhealthy levels 2



### of dirty air according to the American Lung 3



### Association. Big polluters want to continue to 4


### dump unlimited amounts of carbon pollution into 5


### the air without penalty and without regard for 6



### public health impacts on children, seniors and 7


### families that live around power plants instead of 8



### adopting reasonable carbon pollution and 9



### safeguards that protect the public health and 10



### slow climate change. " 11



### " That ' s wrong and the EPA has the chance 12



### to correct it. Right this wro ng by implementing 13



### the proposed standard as soon as possible without 14


### any modifications that will weaken it. " Thank 15



### you. 16



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. And 17


### Two other speakers, Andrew Grande and Bill Price. 18



### MR. GRANDE: Hi, my name is Andrew 19



### Grande, I ' m an organizer with the Sierra Club. 20



### I ' m from Cumberland, Rhode Island, but today I ' ll 21



### be reading a testimony from Timothy Moore from 22

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### Portsmouth, New Hampshire. 1



### MR. POWERS: Could you spell your name? 2



### MR. GRANDE: Sure. A

- n

- d

- r

- e

- w, last name 3



### is Grande , G

- r

- a

- n

- d

- e. 4



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 5



### MR. GRANDE: So this is on behalf of 6



### Timothy Moore of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. " I 7


### have ice fished for more than 30 years. Growing 8



### up in the seacoast New Hampshire area, most 9



### winter weekends were spent ice fishi ng for smelt 10



### on Great Bay with my father. " 11



### " The months leading up to the start of 12



### smelt fishing season were filled with 13



### anticipation and excitement about what the coming 14


### winter would bring. We wondered if there would 15


### be more or fewer shacks this year or if the smelt 16



### fishing would be as good as last year. " 17



### " But one thing we never wondered was if 18



### there would be safe ice to fish on. I ' ll admit 19



### that safe ice can ' t form soon enough for me. If 20



### I had my way the lakes would stay frozen all 21



### year, or at least a few of them. " 22

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### " But I never imagined that I wonder if I 1



### would be able to ice fish each season. I can 2



### remember seeing trucks on the ice of Great Bay 3



### when I was a kid and no one thought twice about 4


### it. Now no one would dream of driving a vehicle 5



### on the ice of Great Bay because it doesn ' t freeze 6



### thickly enough anymore. " 7



### " Every winter, the ice that forms on 8



### Great Bay is thinner, making the smelt fishing 9



### season shorter. The winter of 2012 was the worst 10



### I can remember. There was safe ice to fish on 11



### for about two weeks and then it was gone and 12



### never returned. But it didn ' t seem to matter 13



### because there were still few smelt to catch. 14


### Warmer water temperatures are also contributing 15



### to the loss of valuable smelt habitat, which I 16



### will address more fully later. " 17



### " As a young adult, I gravitated to 18



### freshwater ice fishing. At the time I thought I 19



### was just drawn to the diversity of species that 20



### could be caught through the ice in freshwater. " 21



### " Well, that is true, I later realized 22

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### that it was the dependability of safe ice that 1



### drew me to the freshwater lakes and ponds each 2



### winter. However, I will now wonder how long I 3



### will have safe freshwater ice to fish on. " 4



### " Winters now where lakes such as 5


### Winnipesaukee don ' t completely freeze over, and 6



### if they do, it is only for a brief period of 7


### time. I make my living as an ice fishing guide 8



### during the winter months and each season gets 9



### shorter and less consistent. I know weather 10



### isn ' t something we can control, but it is more 11


### extreme and unpredictable than ever. " 12



### " I didn ' t gr ow up hearing terms such as 13



### El Nino, La Nina or polar vortex, but now they 14


### are commonplace terms because of new and changing 15



### weather patterns. " 16



### " Another change I have witnessed over the 17


### past decade due to warm water is the timing and 18



### duration of certain f ishes spawning. It is the 19



### lake being free of ice, the amount of daylight 20



### hours and water temperature which trigger white 21



### perch and other species to spawn. The white 22

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### perch usually spawn over a two

- week period, but 1



### now the water warms so fast that in some areas of 2



### the lake they spawn in one day. " 3



### " Warmer water also affects cold water 4


### species like lake trout and landlocked salmon. 5


### All fish species, warm water and cold water, have 6



### a preferred water temperature, and the rising 7


### water temperatures are forcing them out of their 8



### natural habitats because of depleted oxygen, 9



### algae blooms and other side effects of warming 10



### trends. " 11



### " Carbon emissions are affecting our 12



### overall quality of life by posing serious health 13



### risks, but the emissions also have a negative 14


### impac t on the success and quality of life of our 15



### fish and wildlife, which in turn, leads to 16



### negative economic impacts. " 17



### " If we do not act the problem will only 18



### continue to get worse. Carbon emissions are a 19



### major part of the problem and power plants are a 20



### cont ributor. I support the Environmental 21



### Protection Agency ' s effort to reduce carbon 22

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### emissions through the Clean Power Plan. Thank 1


### you. Sincerely, Timothy Moore, Portsmouth, New 2



### Hampshire. " 3



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. He may be a 4


### minority voice wishing for ic e year around, I ' ll 5


### just note. Mr. Price? 6



### MR. PRICE: Yes. So my name is Bill 7



### Price. I ' m an organizer with the Sierra Club and 8



### also a resident of West Virginia. I ' ll be 9



### submitting more intense comments in a written 10



### form from my personal perspective, e xcept to say 11



### for today that I support the EPA ' s carbon rule, 12



### and hope that we can work this out in a way of a 13



### just transition, but a transition that will need 14


### to happen in my area of Appalachia. 15



### I ' m reading today into the record 16



### comments from Nora Wright from Boston, 17



### Massachusetts, who is a member of the Beacon Hill 18



### Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends. 19



### MR. POWERS: Could you spell her last 20



### name? 21



### MR. PRICE: Her last name is W

- r

- i

- g

- h

- t. 22

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### " The United States, all of us and the 1



### government that acts on behalf of the public 2



### good, we all need to support the biggest and most 3



### promising climate proposal to date, these new EPA 4


### regulations. The magnitude of the climate change 5


### threat requires bold national action. " 6



### " As a Cornel trained city and regional 7



### pl anner, I understand the importance of analyzing 8



### trends and preparing for the future. We know 9



### that to avoid the worst impacts of warming, in 10



### 2009 at the Copenhagen Summit, the world agreed 11



### that the temperature should not exceed two 12



### degrees Celsius that can be translated into 13



### gigatons of carbon. How much more carbon can be 14


### emitted before we exceed two degrees. That 15


### number is something more than

-- something more 16



### than 500 for all of us. " 17



### " That is our carbon budget. Global 18



### emissions needed to remain within that carbon 19



### budget. If current emission levels stay the 20



### same, the planets carbon budget will be exhausted 21



### by 2024, ten years from now, or even earlier if 22

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### their upward trend continues. " 1



### " This is a climate crisis. If unchecked, 2



### fossil fuel companies wi ll simply carry out their 3



### state admission of selling and burring their 4


### reserves. What would be the climate impact? All 5


### models suggest that we will far exceed the two 6



### degree limit and we may expect global 7


### temperatures to rise above five degrees Celsius. 8



### What is the effect of a five degree increase? " 9



### " Two degrees puts Amsterdam under water. 10



### Three to four degrees puts New York under water. 11


### Oceans die as habitats. Seventy

- five percent of 12



### sea ice will be gone. Italy, Spain and Greece 13



### will become desserts

. " 14



### " Forty percent of species are at risk for 15


### extinction at three to four degrees, and it is 16



### unclear what species can survive a five degree 17



### increase. " 18



### " I support the EPA ' s regulation of carbon 19



### and hope that the state plans will center on 20



### renewable energy. Future generations, if we 21



### manage to pull this out of a fire, will find it 22

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### incomprehensible that we Americans continued 1


### until well into the 21st century to engage in 2



### behavior that seriously compromised the ability 3



### of our own country and the planet. " 4



### " May it be said of us that we did 5


### everything in our power to reverse the climate 6



### crisis while there is still some time left. " 7



### Thank you. 8



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Is there anyone 9



### else who would like to testify before lunch? You 10



### get another chance afterwards

. 11


### Seeing none, I ' m going to adjourn this 12



### hearing. I do want to thank everybody who ' s here 13



### who came and testified or just came to listen. 14



### EPA ' s very appreciative of the time that people 15


### take to comment to us and give us input on these 16



### rules. 17



### With that we are going to take a just 18



### about an hour break and reconvene at 1:00 p.m. 19



### here. Thanks very much. 20



### [Lunch recess from 12:04 to 1:02 p.m.] 21



### MS. ESHER: Good afternoon. My name is 22

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### Diana Esher and I am one of the Chairs at today ' s 1


### Public Hearing. Thank yo u for coming today. 2



### I have with me Michael Gordon and Dave 3



### Arnold. They ' ll be on the panel with me today. 4



### So we ' re here today to listen to your 5



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 6



### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 7



### of these pro posed rules on June 2nd, 2014. 8



### Power plants are the largest source of 9



### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 10



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 11



### emissions. 12



### The first rule is EPA ' s Proposed Clean 13



### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants . This 14


### proposal consists of two main parts, state 15


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 16



### power plants, and guidelines to help states 17


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 18



### This proposal gives states flexibility in 19



### determining how to meet their goals. States will 20



### choose what goes into their plans that show how 21



### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 22

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### their goals by 2030. 1



### The second rule is EPA ' s Proposed Rule to 2



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 3



### and reconstructed power pla nts. This rule would 4


### set emission limits for two groups of power 5


### plants. Those that make physical or operational 6



### changes that increase the plant ' s maximum 7


### achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 8



### that replace components to such an extent that 9



### the ne w components exceed 50 percent of the 10



### capital cost of an entirely new comparable 11


### facility. 12



### If you would like more details on either 13



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 14


### available at the registration desk and also in 15



### that back corner. So there a re some fact sheets 16



### if you would like some. 17



### Today ' s hearing is one of four public 18



### hearings across the country this week on the two 19



### proposed rules. We ' ve had tremendous interest in 20



### these hearings and we really thank you for taking 21



### the time out of your day to participate. 22

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### We have a lot of people signed up to 1



### speak today and yesterday, and we ' d like to hear 2



### from everybody. So I am going to go over some 3



### ground rules and some housekeeping items that 4


### will help us make this meeting run smoothly. 5



### First I want to make sure everybody 6



### checked in at EPA ' s registration desk downstairs. 7


### The way we figure out who ' s speaking is we get 8



### cards from the registration desk. So if you 9



### didn ' t register, we won ' t know that you ' re here 10



### to speak. So please make sure you did tha t. 11



### Second, I want to make sure you ' re in the 12



### right room. So this is Room A, so if you ' re a 13



### speaker in Room A, you ' re in the right place. 14



### And here ' s how the hearing will work. I ' ll call 15


### up speakers in pairs and when your name is 16



### called, please come to t he front of the room to 17


### this table. And when I call on you to speak, 18



### please state your name and spell it for the court 19



### reporter. 20



### Your comments will be transcribed and 21



### included in the record of comments, and all of 22

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### this testimony will be part of the publi c record. 1


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 2



### give comments. We have a light, so this light 3



### will be on to show you how much time you have. 4


### When the light goes from green to yellow, that 5


### means you have one minute remaining. And when it 6



### turns red, tha t ' s just a signal that you should 7


### start to wrap up. And it actually buzzes, so 8



### you ' ll know when your time is up. 9



### When you ' re finished speaking, please 10



### remain at the table or podium until the next 11



### person who ' s sitting with you has also completed 12



### his or he r testimony. 13



### So we ' re here to listen to you today. 14


### However a panel member may ask clarifying 15


### questions. So if we want to ask you more, we may 16



### ask you to clarify something. After that I ' ll 17


### call up the next pair of speakers and we ' ll 18



### continue throughout the afternoon. 19



### So if you have a written copy of your 20



### testimony, please give it to the staff at the 21



### registration desk before you leave today. 22

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### So in order to be fair to everyone, we ' re 1


### going to have to strictly enforce the five minute 2



### limit, and like I said, we have a timer to help 3



### you with that. If you have additional comments 4


### before five minutes, please submit them in 5


### writing and let me assure you that EPA gives just 6



### as much consideration to the comments we receive 7


### in writing as those that we listen t o. 8



### There is still plenty of time to get in 9



### written comments. Comments must be received by 10



### October 16th, 2014, and all written comments will 11


### also be part of the official docket for the 12



### proposed rule. 13



### We ' re actually scheduled to go to 8:00 14


### p.m. tonight. We ' ll be taking short breaks as 15


### needed throughout the afternoon and evening. And 16



### if you have any questions, please see the staff 17


### either at the registration desk, or you ' ll see 18



### staff coming in and out of the room. Feel free 19



### to engage them. 20



### And finally, I want to ask you to please 21



### be respectful of everyone who speaks today. We 22

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### have people with a wide variety of views in the 1


### audience, we really want to hear from everyone, 2



### and we want to be fair to everyone, so please 3



### listen quietly. 4



### If you have a cell p hone on, I ' d 5


### appreciate it if you ' d turn it off. And just to 6



### think about even applause can slow things down, 7


### so it would be helpful if you listen quietly, and 8



### thank you, again, for taking time to come in and 9



### comment on EPA ' s proposed rule. 10



### So now that I went through the 11


### housekeeping, let me introduce our other panel 12



### member, our Regional Administrator from 13



### Philadelphia, Shawn Garvin. 14


### MR. GARVIN: I just want to thank 15


### everybody form coming and I look forward to 16



### hearing your comments. Thanks. 17



### MS. ESHER: So we ' ll go ahead and get 18



### started. Our first two speakers are Tom Clarke 19



### and Gregory Vogt. Thank you, gentlemen. And Mr. 20



### Clarke, when you ' re ready. 21



### MR. CLARKE: My name is Tom Clarke. It ' s 22

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### T

- o

- m, C

- l

- a

- r

- k

- e. 1



### Hello. I ' m Tom Clarke and I appear toda y 2



### on behalf of Governor Earl Ray Tomblin and 3



### residents of West Virginia to address EPA ' s 4


### proposed rule limited CO2 emissions from existing 5



### power plants. 6



### This rule in its current form is wrong on 7


### many levels. It threatens the reliability and 8



### affordability of our electric supply. It 9



### threatens our local, state and national 10



### economies. It is likely illegal on several 11


### respects. It harms our coal miners, families, 12



### communities, and seniors. 13



### It is a meaningless gesture that will 14


### have negligible effect on world wide CO2 levels, 15


### and while claiming to provide flexibility to the 16



### states, the EPA sets unrealistic and unattainable 17



### goals. 18



### The unelected bureaucrats at the EPA 19



### should not be allowed to write energy and 20



### economic policy for the country. This is a job 21



### for C ongress. 22

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### The EPA should not be allowed to 1


### establish through regulation what Congress has 2



### declined to establish through legislation. The 3



### Clean Air Act was never intended to allow EPA to 4



### take over the nation ' s electric power generation 5


### industry as it is now proposing to do. 6



### In fact, the Section Clean Air Act the 7


### EPA chose is a basis for this rule. 111(d), by 8



### its own terms, does not give EPA authority to 9



### regulate power plants because emissions from them 10



### are regulated under Section 112. 11


### The inexpensiv e power is the engine for 12



### our nation ' s economy. It is the basis for our 13



### country ' s decision as the world ' s economic 14



### leader. Under EPA ' s carbon constrained future, 15


### the energy advantages our country once had will 16



### no longer exist. Compounding this economic 17


### threat is implementing CO2 reductions at a time 18



### of economic downturn when power production and a 19



### company air emissions are at low levels. 20



### The EPA ' s mandate of further reductions 21



### from this low point puts a choke hold on the 22

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### ability of the economy to recove r and thrive. 1


### For West Virginia, the economic harm is further 2



### compounded by the fact that EPA ' s rule, which is, 3



### in essence, a mandate to remove coal from the 4



### country ' s portfolio, directly targets our highest 5


### paying jobs, jobs which are fundamental to our 6



### families and communities. 7


### The carbon constraints the EPA plans to 8



### put on the U.S. economy won ' t affect the rest of 9



### the world. Worldwide, the use of coal will grow. 10



### China, which uses about half of the eight billion 11



### tons of coal the world consumes each ye ar has 12



### seen CO2 emissions rise 67 percent since 2005. 13



### In the same period, India ' s emissions rose 52 14


### percent. These already thriving economies will 15


### further prosper at America ' s expense. 16



### Whatever modest reduction of CO2 may be 17



### achieved under EPA ' s propos ed rule is likely to 18



### be more than offset by increased emissions from 19



### the increased use of coal elsewhere in the world. 20



### The purported environmental benefit of 21



### the rule is unlikely to ever be achieved. When 22

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### looking beyond the economic harm and lack of 1



### env ironment benefit to the rule, itself, several 2



### glaring concerns appear. 3



### First, Section 111(d) of the Clean Air 4


### Act authorizes EPA to regulate emissions from 5


### stationary sources of air pollution. 6



### Historically, this has been applied to regulate 7



### emissions fro m pollutants at a source with inside 8



### the fence controls. 9



### Building blocks two, three and four of 10



### the best systems of emissions reduction the EPA 11


### proposes would unlawfully expand EPA jurisdiction 12



### well beyond the inside the fence limits of the 13



### Clean Air Ac t and as such, are illegal. 14


### Block two, redispatch constitutes EPA as 15


### the overseer of operations of the country ' s 16



### electric grid. 17



### And block three, renewable energy. EPA 18



### is applying mandates to facilities with no actual 19



### emissions of air pollutants. 20



### An d block four, energy efficiency, EPA is 21



### stepping outside the fence to apply mandates to 22

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### end users of electricity. 1


### Second, Section 111 requires the best 2



### system of emissions reduction to be adequately 3



### demonstrated. The goals that EPA sets in the 4



### proposed r ule are so unrealistically aggressive 5



### that no credible claim can be made that their 6



### feasibility has been adequately demonstrated. 7


### Block one, heat rate improvement at coal 8



### fired power plants seeks a six percent 9



### improvement. This is based upon EPA ' s review of 10



### literature, particularly a 2009 report. 11


### EPA obviously has not looked at the real 12



### capacity of actual electric generating units to 13



### achieve these improvements, nor has it considered 14


### that utilities have always been obligated to both 15


### regulatory commissio ns and their shareholders to 16



### achieve any economically achievable efficiencies. 17


### A six percent goal is far too aggressive 18



### for the West Virginia fleet of plants, which is 19



### already the second most efficient group in the 20



### county. 21



### Block three, renewable energy would 22

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### requires 600 percent increase for West Virginia. 1


### EPA arrived at this goal by arbitrarily including 2



### West Virginia and a region of northeastern states 3



### and establishing the goal not on what is feasible 4


### for West Virginia, but instead, appointed an 5



### unrea listically aggressive assessment for the 6



### region. 7


### Block four, energy efficiency, sets a 8



### goal of 10.7 percent for West Virginia. The 9



### state ' s current rate 0.05 percent, meaning EPA 10



### expects the state to achieve a completely 11



### unrealistic 200 fold increase. 12



### Th ird, EPA proposal is constructed to 13



### penalize coal fired power by imposing limits on 14



### the net emissions rate of CO2 rather than the 15


### gross weight. Coal plants are being penalized 16



### for power that is consumed by pollution control 17


### equipment recently mandated by other EPA rules. 18



### There are many other issues with EPA ' s 19



### proposed rule that the State of West Virginia 20



### will point out later in its written comments. 21



### The EPA ' s proposal should be withdrawn and its 22

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### attempt to regulate CO2 under Section 111 should 1



### be abandon ed. 2



### MS. ESHER: Thank you for your comments. 3



### Mr. Vogt? 4



### MR. VOGT: Greg Vogt, V

- o

- g

- t. 5



### I ' m Greg Vogt, an assistant business 6



### manager with the IBEW Local 5 in Pittsburgh. 7



### IBEW is a labor union with local unions 8



### throughout the United States and Canada, with 9



### about 700,000 members, including about 35,000 in 10



### the 22 Pennsylvania counties where IBEW Local 5 11


### has jurisdiction. 12



### The 325 contractors that employ our 13



### member electricians work throughout the economy, 14


### primarily in electrical construction of 15



### residentia l, commercial, retail and industrial 16



### industries. 17


### IBEW Local 5 is very pro

- growth

, 18



### pro

- development , because when the economy runs 19



### smoothly, our members work. When there is a 20



### demand for quality work at a reasonable price, 21



### our members work. With a sluggi sh economy, our 22

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### members are out of work. 1



### We have concerns about the EPA ' s proposed 2



### emission standards in some regards. First, it is 3



### the direct impact on our members as Pennsylvania 4


### cold fired power plants will be forced to shut 5


### down. Electrical power ge nerating facilities are 6



### a big employer for our members, who supply 7


### temporary construction workers for maintenance, 8



### outages and in major upgrade projects. 9



### Second is the indirect impact. Because 10



### coal industry jobs are family sustaining jobs, 11


### every direct c oal industry job creates 1.6 jobs 12



### across all other sectors of the economy. The 13



### emission standards you ' re proposing will have a 14


### significant negative impact on Pennsylvania 15


### generally, and western Pennsylvania in 16



### particular. 17


### Third, removing such a significa nt 18



### proportion of coal from the nation ' s energy mix 19



### will cause substantial increases in the cost of 20



### electricity, costs that will hurt the 21



### competitiveness of those who hire us as well as 22

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### costs that will hurt our individual members and 1



### all consumers who pay e lectrical bills. 2



### Pennsylvania is blessed with abundant 3



### energy resources, and because of that, we are one 4



### of the country ' s leading energy producing states. 5



### We export energy to other states that are not as 6



### blessed as we are. Pennsylvania would shoulder a 7


### disproportionate share of economic harm if these 8



### proposed emission standards are put into place. 9



### In the short term, hundreds of jobs will 10



### be lost as power plants are forced to close. 11


### Over time, the job losses will total thousands. 12



### And for what? To be a ble to say that we have 13



### achieved a reduction in global greenhouse gas 14


### emissions of one percent. 15


### The vast majority of IBEW members enter 16



### through an acceptance into our five

- year 17


### apprenticeship program. This five

- year program 18



### includes both classroom and o n

- the

- job training. 19



### Every year 60 or so apprentices complete this 20



### rigorous five

- year program to become journeymen 21



### electricians. This rigorous program pays off 22

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### with family sustaining jobs. 1


### These days many of us are worried about 2



### the loss of family sustai ning jobs, whether they 3



### move offshore or just disappear because an plant 4


### is closed or a company has gone out of business. 5


### Coal industry jobs are family sustaining 6



### jobs, too. We need these jobs in order to 7


### sustain a healthy, vibrant economy. Everybody 8



### wa nts a clean environment, including IBEW and its 9



### members, but this country has made progress in 10



### reducing power plant emissions, including carbon. 11


### We should continue to make progress and reduce 12



### emissions even further, and at the same time, 13



### preserve thousand s of family sustaining jobs. 14



### Thank you. 15



### MS. ESHER: Thank you to both of you. 16



### Our next speakers are Jeffery Miller and Richard 17


### Dunkel. Mr. Miller, when you ' re ready. Thank 18



### you. 19



### MR. MILLER: Thank you. My name is 20



### Jeffrey Miller, J

- e

- f

- f

- r

- e

- y, M

- i

- l

- l

- e

- r. 21



### Hi, my name is Jeffrey Miller. And an 22

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### Assistant Business Manager with IBEW Local Union 1



### Number 5, and I ' m here speaking on behalf of its 2



### some 3,500 members. 3



### I, as well as many others, am here today 4



### because our members are concerned about the lo ss 5


### of their jobs due to EPA ' s proposed Clean Power 6



### Plan. I know that over the last few days you 7


### have heard repeated testimony on how the EPA ' s 8



### Clean Power Plan will undoubtedly attempt to 9



### clean toxins from our atmosphere while at the 10



### same time, deal a cri ppling blow to our nation ' s 11


### economy by eliminating jobs that are directly 12



### intertwined with the production and us of coal. 13



### I do not wish to repeat these national 14


### statistics for you again, but I do want to really 15


### how this plan will affect our members direct ly. 16



### IBEW Local 5 has a jurisdiction that covers 22 17


### counties in western Pennsylvania, approximately 18



### one

- third of the commonwealth. 19



### The six counties that I represent have 20



### approximately 300 journey persons and apprentices 21



### living within its boundaries. These are IBEW 22

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### workers with good paying jobs. But more 1


### importantly, they are IBEW workers with families, 2



### and mortgages, and car payments, and kids in 3



### school and college. 4


### Also within this six county primarily 5



### rural area are four active coal fired electrical 6



### ge nerating facilities. Combined, these plants 7


### produced 4,893 megawatts, or nearly five 8



### gigawatts of electricity, supplying energy to 9



### tens of thousands of homes. It ' s just a small 10



### percentage of the power generated in the eastern 11


### Appalachian region, and an e ven smaller 12



### percentage in the United States using coal as a 13



### fuel source. 14


### Within this six county area, IBEW Local 5 15


### currently has over 125 of its members working on 16



### construction projects at several of these coal 17


### fired facilities. These projects include an SCR 18



### in two unites and a scrubber on another two 19



### unites. Both projects involve work on the back 20



### pass of these units, and in other words, they ' re 21



### designed to clean emissions, thus making these 22

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### plants burn cleaner and more efficiently. 1


### They will create ele ctricity that is 2



### environmentally cleaner than before. These 3



### projects are capital projects and are only a part 4


### of the picture that our members play building 5



### them. They are also the many man hours created 6



### in maintaining these plants with both scheduled 7



### and forced outages. 8



### The loss of jobs created by the closure 9



### of one or all of the stations due to a more 10



### stringent coal regulations will be devastating to 11



### the workforce of the IBEW. 12



### The examples I have given are just a few 13



### of the examples of direct impact t hat closures of 14


### coal fired facilities would create? Ironically, 15


### the livelihoods of our members, members belonging 16



### to the International Brotherhood of Electrical 17


### workers completely revolve around the generation 18



### of electricity. 19



### In this great country, the United States 20



### of American, in the year 2014, we most assuredly 21



### have the intelligence and the technology to 22

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### continue the use of, and even expand the use of 1


### coal as a chief source of our power generation. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Mr. Dunkel? 4



### M R. DUNKEL: Richard Dunkel, 5



### R

- i

- c

- h

- a

- r

- d, D

- u

- n

- k

- e

- l. Unfortunately, you 6



### got three of us in a row. 7


### My name is Richard Dunkel. I ' m an 8



### electrician as well as Assistant Business Manager 9



### for the IBEW Local 5 located here in Pittsburgh. 10



### IBEW Local 5 repre sents 3,500 inside 11


### construction electricians covering 22 counties in 12



### north and southwestern Pennsylvania. I have 13



### worked in the power generation industry for my 14


### entire career, as well as my father before me. 15


### He worked on the construction of Keystone, 16



### Con amal (phonetic), and Homer City Power Plants, 17



### and alter oversaw the additional scrubbers at 18



### Conamal, and the installation of an SCR at the 19



### Homer City Plant. 20



### I have also worked on numerous 21



### maintenance outages at these plants, as well as 22

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### maintenance outages at the First Energy Hatfield 1



### Plant and the Allegheny Power Systems Armstrong 2



### Plant, both of which have been recently closed 3



### down. 4


### The power generation industry has 5


### provided two generations of my family with a good 6



### middle class standard of living. Recent ly in our 7


### 22 county area, we have had four coal burning 8



### power plants shut down, costing the members we 9



### represent hundreds of lost job opportunities and 10



### tens of thousands of man hours of work. 11



### Unfortunately the effects of these plant 12



### closures reach further than the electricians we 13



### represent. Thousands of building tradesmen, 14


### utility workers, miners, railroad workers and 15


### barge operators have also lost their jobs. With 16



### the increase in job loss, there is the negative 17


### impact of the economic development that af fects 18



### manufacturing expansion, local tax, federal and 19



### state taxes, revenues and small businesses. 20



### Estimates show that clean power could 21



### cost the United States more than 150,000 jobs by 22

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### the year 2020. 1



### First and foremost, let ' s not forget if 2



### the Clean Powe r Plan is enacted, the rest of the 3



### world will continue to burn coal. Developing 4



### nations such as China and India will continue to 5


### burn coal at an increasing rate, and these two 6



### countries combined have more than one

- third of 7



### the world ' s population, and curr ently use less 8



### than ten percent of the world ' s electricity. 9



### Because the industrial revolution occurring in 10



### these developing nations, this number will go up 11


### drastically over the next decade. 12



### We believe that the plan is premature 13



### since we do not know the e xtent to which other 14


### nations, including China and India, will be 15


### willing to commit to a truly global program of 16



### greenhouse gas reduction. 17


### We cannot go it alone and expect other 18



### nations will have any meaningful climate impact 19



### in a world economy that is usi ng more coal and 20



### other fossil fuels every day

. 21



### Second, the EPA proposal for increase in 22

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### the use of nature gas combined cycle generating 1


### units will lead to a significant increase in 2



### natural gas prices. This price increase will be 3



### further amplified by the export of natural gas to 4


### these developing nations. Independent analysts 5


### project that the utility gas demand may rise 6



### threefold above the EPA ' s current forecast. 7


### Consumers and energy intensive industries will be 8



### required to bear the brunt of this price 9



### inc rease. 10



### We all agree that the air needs to be 11



### cleaner, that the proposed steps had deep 12



### reaching effects on the economy and future 13



### generations of the United States. 14


### The possibility of losing 150,000 highly 15


### skilled good paying jobs could be an economic 16



### di saster. This great country, the United States, 17


### cannot go it alone and implement clean power plan 18



### without having responsible assurances that the 19



### rest of the world will follow in our footsteps. 20



### It is my hope that the we provide cleaner 21



### air without sacrifi cing the economic future of 22

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### the United States. 1


### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Any questions 2



### from the panel? 3



### MR. DUNKEL: Thank you. 4



### MR. GARVIN: Thank you. 5



### MS. ESHER: Our next two speakers are 6



### David McKenna and Dan Chu. David McKenna and Dan 7



### Chu. Hello ? 8



### MR. MCKENNA: Good afternoon. I just 9



### finished writing it. Do you want to go first? 10



### MR. CHU: Oh, sure. I ' ll give him 11



### another minute then. 12



### Good afternoon. My name is Dan Chu, I ' m 13



### the Senior Director for Our Wild American 14


### campaign at the Sierra Club. 15



### COURT REPORTER: Can you please spell 16



### your name? 17



### MR. CHU: C

- h

- u. 18



### Good afternoon, my name is Dan Chu, 19



### Senior Director for Our Wild America campaign at 20



### the Sierra Club. The Our Wild America campaign 21



### brings together people from all walks of life to 22

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### secu re permanent protections for our nation ' s 1


### public lands, connect kids and families with 2



### nature nearby, and work to keep dirty fuels in 3



### the ground. 4



### I ' m also father of a 10

- year

- old son and 5



### a 15

- year

- old daughter, and I testify today on 6



### their behalf and th e prosperous future that they 7



### deserve. 8



### I fully support the EPA ' s proposal to 9



### establish the country ' s first ever carbon 10



### pollution standard that requires all states to 11


### reduce carbon pollution from dirty power plants. 12



### Such action by the EPA will help us 13



### ass ure a clean energy future that no longer 14


### depends upon dirty fossil fuels such as coal, oil 15



### and gas. 16



### This proposed rule provides states the 17



### framework to do so. This rule must not result in 18



### simply swapping out one fossil fuel for another, 19



### such as coal fo r gas. Doing so would make it 20



### very difficult for states to achieve the 30 21



### percent reduction target, since natural gas and 22

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### associates methane release significant carbon 1


### pollution as well. 2



### The standards must result in states 3



### prioritizing getting our elec tricity from wind 4


### power, solar power and energy efficiency 5


### measures. That is the quickest and most cost 6



### effective way to achieve the carbon pollution 7



### reductions. 8



### We now face an unprecedented 9



### environmental, social and economic challenge. 10



### Top scientists a gree that climate disruption is 11


### primarily due to the release of billions of tons 12



### of carbon dioxide and methane from coal, oil and 13



### gas. World leaders in 2008 set a target of not 14


### more than a 3.6 degree Fahrenheit rise in global 15


### temperatures to avoid a clima te catastrophe. 16



### Scientific modeling asserts that such an 17


### upper limit in average global temperatures will 18



### result in catastrophic events, including sea 19



### level rise, super storms, drought, and mass 20



### extinctions. 21



### Burning global oil, gas and coal reserves 22

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### that release another 500 billion tons of carbon 1


### dioxide into the air would push us past this 3.6 2



### degree Fahrenheit tipping point. This means that 3



### at current global emission rates of 31 billion 4


### tons of carbon dioxide year, the world would 5



### exceed that 500 billio n tons of carbon dioxide 6



### emissions by 2030, only fifteen years from now. 7



### The U.S. must be a world leader and lead 8



### the way on quickly moving from carbon pollution 9



### energy sources to clean renewable energy sources 10



### and greater energy efficiency. 11



### On Sunday, September 21st, my wife, my 12



### son, daughter and I will join hundreds of 13



### thousands of other Americans to march in the 14


### streets of New York City and demand meaningful 15


### international action to reduce carbon pollution 16



### during the U.N. Climate Summit. 17



### Buses are being organized to bring people 18



### to New York from across the country, including 19



### from Pittsburgh and other places in Pennsylvania. 20



### 2030 is only 15 years away. By 2030, my 21



### son and daughter will be in the work force and 22

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### starting their own families. I have a 1


### responsibility and a right to do everything I can 2



### as a father to ensure that our nation will not be 3



### a place where fossil fueled climate disruption 4


### has plunged our country into an unstable 5


### existence, dominated by super storms, drought and 6



### flooding. 7


### Acting now to curb carbon pollution gives 8



### my son and daughter a fighting chance at a future 9



### where they and their new families will have clean 10



### air, plentiful water and a prosperous society. A 11


### place where they can explore and enjoy a 12



### country ' s wondrous bounty of wild places and 13



### wildlife. Thank you for your time. 14



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. So Mr. McKenna? 15


### MR. MCKENNA: Good afternoon. My name is 16



### David is McKenna, M

- c

- K

- e

- n

- n

- a. 17


### I am 70 years old and a retired 18



### registered nurse. I think it is fair enough to 19



### say th at most of my 30 years nursing career was 20



### preventative in nature. And yes, there was a 21



### good deal of responder activity as well. 22

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### But I choose to emphasize the prevention 1


### aspect. That is, I believe, the thing that has 2



### motivated me to volunteer for the pa st two months 3



### with Penn Environment, making phone calls to 4


### explain to people the proposals that you, the 5



### EPA, have recently promulgated. 6



### I have been reading everything I can get 7


### my hands on regarding carbon dioxide pollution. 8



### Last evening at home I read an article published 9



### two days ago about a researcher at the University 10



### of Illinois Chicago, who has successfully found a 11


### new catalyst that converts CO2 into fuel. 12



### His name is Amin Salehi

- Khojin, and I 13



### hope I pronounced that correctly. A professor of 14



### me chanical and industrial engineering. In his 15



### words, and I quote, " With this catalyst we can 16



### directly reduce carbon dioxide to syngas, " 17



### unquote, and " Our whole purpose is to move from 18



### laboratory experiments to real world 19



### applications. This is a real breakt hrough that 20



### can take a waste gas, carbon dioxide, and use 21



### inexpensive catalysts to produce another source 22

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### of energy at large scale while making a healthier 1



### environment, " unquote. I can provide the 2



### citation for that. 3



### That is prevention. To the opponents of 4


### your present proposals I pose this question. 5


### Since you have met the EPA proposals in the past, 6



### what makes you think America would be unable to 7



### develop new technology presently to meet future 8



### needs for both electricity, our grandchildren and 9



### the health of the planet. 10



### Let me conclude quoting Robert Frost. 11



### " To roads diverged in a wood and I chose the one 12



### less traveled by and that has made all the 13



### difference. " 14


### The whole world, China, Canada, England, 15


### Germany, Australia and many other countries have 16



### alre ady placed themselves or a road to the 17



### future. Here in the United States we have the 18



### skill, and intelligence, and research 19



### capabilities to develop new technologies to build 20



### that road into the future. Thank you, EPA, for 21



### taking the lead in this regard, an d thank you for 22

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### this opportunity to address you. 1



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, gentlemen. Our 2



### next two speakers are Bret Smith and Rosalie 3



### Finkelstein. 4


### So let me just repeat those. Bret Smith 5


### and Rosalie Finkelstein. Oh, there we go. Thank 6



### you. And when y ou ' re ready. You can take a 7



### minute to settle in. 8



### MS. FINKELSTEIN: Okay. My name is 9



### Rosalie Finkelstein and I am reading on behalf of 10



### Edward J. Zygmunte. 11



### COURT REPORTER: Can you spell both 12



### names? 13



### MS. FINKELSTEIN: My name is 14



### R

- o

- s

- a

- i

- l

- e and my last name is 15



### F

- i

- n

- k

- e

- l

- s

- t

- e

- i

- n. And his name is 16



### E

- d

- w

- a

- r

- d, J, J is his middle initial, and 17



### Z

- y

- g

- m

- u

- n

- t. 18



### " I speak to you today as someone whose 19



### family has had an historic relationship with the 20



### coal industry. Unfortunately, our relationship 21



### has not be en a positive one. Both of my 22

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### grandfathers were coal miners in Luzerne County 1


### in the early 20th century. I never met my 2



### paternal grandfather because he died a slow 3



### agonizing death from black lung before I was 4



### born. " 5



### " My only remembrance of my maternal 6



### g randfather was lying on his bed gasping for air 7



### as he was attached to an oxygen tank. " 8



### " I still remember as a small child the 9



### local coal company dumping their waste coal in a 10



### huge heap behind my grandparent ' s house. The 11


### coal companies did so because ther e were no 12



### regulations in place to stop them. " 13



### " This huge coal pile stains the stream 14


### that flows lifelessly through my home town. Yes, 15


### history has vividly shown us what happens when 16



### the necessary regulations to protect our health 17



### and the environments are not in place. " 18



### " Today, as an avid angler, it pains me to 19



### find over these

-- over three pages of fish 20



### consumption advisories for mercury pollution in 21



### the summary book of regulations that comes with 22

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### my fishing license. " 1



### " Mercury pollution caused by coal fire 2



### electric power plants, in my view, is a national 3



### disgrace. I am grateful to the EPA for recently 4


### enacting new regulations that will greatly reduce 5


### this toxic source of pollution. " 6



### " Please note that despite the predictions 7



### of the coal and electric utility industries, our 8



### lights have not going out because of these new 9



### regulations. Now I believe the time has come for 10



### EPA to take the next logical step to protect our 11


### health, our environment and our economy by 12



### enacting the proposed Clean Power Plan for 13



### Existing Power Plants and Carbon Pollution 14



### Standard for Modified Sources. " 15



### " As a lifelong outdoors man, I have 16



### personally witnessed many adverse impacts to our 17



### fish and wildlife and their critical habitat 18



### caused by greenhouse gas emissions from coal 19



### fired fire plants. " 20



### " Pennsylvania state fish, the Eastern 21



### Brook Trout is in serious decline because of 22

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### warming stream temperatures. The smallmouth bass 1


### population on the Middle and Lower Susquehanna 2



### River is also meeting the same fate. And many of 3



### our headw ater screens have been ravaged by the 4


### increased frequency and intensity of rain events 5



### that cause unnatural stream bank erosion. " 6



### " Recently the Pennsylvania Game 7


### Commission reduced the hunting season for 8



### Snowshoe Hare, because on average our winters are 9



### w armer, which translates into less snow cover to 10



### protect hares. " 11



### " Pennsylvania ' s state tree, the Easter 12



### Hemlock, is in serious trouble from a disease 13



### known as the Wooley Adelgid

-- I never know how 14


### to say this word. Adelgid

-- Adelgid

-- someone 15



### help me o ut. Okay, well, people know what I 16



### mean. Mild winters are also being blamed for the 17



### forest pests. " 18



### " Humans, too, are not immune to the 19



### effects of climate change caused by unregulated 20



### greenhouse gases. The number of Americans 21



### inflicted with pollution related lung cancer, 22

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### asthma and allergies should concern us all. " 1



### " Just a couple of decades ago Lyme 2



### disease was something we never heard of. Today 3



### the number of Americans inflicted with this 4


### debilitating disease is grown exponentially. " 5



### " Once again, wa rmer winter temperatures 6



### are to blame for the

-- sorry, guys this happens 7



### when I ' m nervous

-- of Lyme infected ticks. " 8



### " In addition to human health and the 9



### environment, greenhouse gas emissions have a huge 10



### negative impact to our economy. Outdoor 11



### recreati on, agriculture and the forest products 12



### industry contribute billions to the nation ' s 13



### economy. " 14



### " We should all agree that America cannot 15


### afford to lose these job sustaining industries 16



### because of a preventable problem. " 17



### " On the flip side increased healthc are 18



### cost from pollution related illnesses are 19



### unnecessarily draining our financial resources. 20



### We cannot afford to pay the exorbitant cost of 21



### these preventable diseases. " 22

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### " It is for these reasons above and many 1



### more which I do not have the time to list, is why 2



### I strongly support EPA ' s Clean Power Plan for 3



### Existing Power Plants and Carbon Pollution 4



### standard from Modified Sources. " 5



### " There should be no doubt that we can 6



### have clean air, have clean water and a healthy 7



### economy. Indeed, a healthy economy deman ds that 8



### we have both clean air and clean water. " Thank 9



### you for the opportunity to present my views in 10



### behalf of this man on this critically important 11



### issues. 12



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Rosalie. Mr. 13



### Smith? 14



### MR. SMITH: Good afternoon, and thank you 15



### to EPA fo r holding these public hearings on the 16



### proposed Clean Power Plan. 17


### My name is Bret Smith and I am Senior 18



### Director of Government relations for the American 19



### Iron and Steel Institute or AISA. 20



### AISI serves as the voice of the North 21



### American steel industry in the public policy 22

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### arena and advanced the case for steel in the 1


### marketplace as the preferred material of choice. 2



### AISI is composed of 22 member companies, 3



### including both integrated and electric arc 4


### furnace steelmakers and approximately 125 5



### associate member s who are suppliers, too, or 6



### customers of our industry. AISI member companies 7



### represent over three

- quarters of both the United 8



### States and North American steel capacity. 9



### Steel and other manufacturing industries 10



### are the backbone of the U.S. economy. A s trong 11


### manufacturing sector creates significant benefits 12



### for society, including good paying jobs, 13



### investments in research and development, 14



### essential materials for our national defense, and 15


### high value exports. A robust steel industry in 16



### America is critical to leading the domestic 17



### economy. 18



### Our AISI members are doing everything 19



### they can to reduce their energy usage as well as 20



### their environmental footprints and have been 21



### doing so for at least the past two decades. 22

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### The domestic steel industries voluntarily 1



### r educed its energy intensity by 28 percent since 2



### 1990, while reducing its GHG emissions by 33 3



### percent over that same period. 4



### In fact, data presented by the U.S. 5



### Department of Energy recently show that the steel 6



### industry in the U.S. has the lowest energy 7



### in tensity and second lowest CO2 emissions 8



### intensity of any major steel producing country. 9



### Nevertheless, the production of steel is 10



### inherently energy intensive. As energy typically 11



### accounts for 20 percent or more of the cost of 12



### making a ton of steel. The i ndustry consumes 13



### substantial amounts of electricity, natural gas 14


### and coal to make our products, maintaining 15


### affordable and reliable sources of these energy 16



### sources are critical to the international 17


### competitiveness of our industry. 18



### Steel producers in Ameri ca are currently 19



### under substantial challenges from international 20



### competitors. The American Steel Industry is once 21



### again facing a surge in unfairly traded imports 22

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### from multiple countries. Countries like China 1


### and Turkey continue to disrupt world markets b y 2



### subsidizing the production and exportation of 3



### steel by their producers. The overall surge in 4


### imports has led some steel producers to file 5


### trade cases on five different products and a 6



### number of facilities have already been idled and 7



### workers have lost the ir jobs. 8



### In several recent cases foreign steel 9



### producers were receiving below market rates for 10



### electricity, which constitutes a subsidy. These 11


### types of foreign government interventions are 12



### creating global overcapacity in steel and a surge 13



### of steel import s into the U.S., inhibiting our 14


### industry ' s ability to recover fully from the 15



### recent economic downturn. 16



### For the steel industry operating in the 17


### U.S. under tight margins with substantial 18



### subsidized competition from overseas, policies 19



### that raise energy cost on domestic companies 20



### threaten our competitiveness. 21



### The proposed Clean Power Plan will impose 22

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### direct requirements on the electric utility 1


### sector and not directly on its customers. But 2



### it ' s the customers that will bear the cost 3



### associated with the compli ance and reliability 4


### risk of the proposal. 5


### Our principal concern is that this may 6



### lead to higher electricity cost to large 7



### industrial customers like steel, while 8



### potentially lessening the quality and reliability 9



### of the electricity supply that ' s essential for 10



### our industry to operate and to succeed. 11


### The economic impact will be particularly 12



### impactful for the steel industry, given the 13



### regional differences in current fuel mix for the 14


### industry. The CPP will have a disproportionate 15


### impact on coal fired utilitie s, and there ' s a 16



### high correlation between the service area of 17



### those utilities and the location of steel 18



### production facilities. 19



### The leading states in terms of iron and 20



### steel production in the U.S. are Indiana, Ohio, 21



### Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Michigan and Ala bama. 22

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### All of these states are heavily dependent on coal 1


### for their electricity production, in turn, so is 2



### our industry, industrial customers especially. 3



### Steel producers will be charged to offset the 4


### cost of replacing coal capacity with other 5



### sources, incl uding the cost of transmission 6



### infrastructure. 7


### Additionally, the impact of other 8



### proposed or pending EPA regulations of the 9



### utility sector like the mercury and air toxic 10



### standards, the cross state air pollution rule, 11



### the clean water section, 316(b), cool ing water 12



### intake structures and coal combustion and 13



### residuals will all have an impact on coal fired 14



### utilities, and therefore threaten the 15


### availability and reliability of electricity to 16



### large industrial customers like the steel 17


### industry. 18



### Another significan t concern that these 19



### proposed regulations do not reflect our

-- is 20



### that these proposed regulations do not reflect 21



### the fact that these efforts to address climate 22

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### change can only be effective when undertaken on a 1


### global basis. Limitations on CO2 emissions 2



### i nstituted in the United States must apply at the 3



### same level of stringency to other major steel 4


### producing nations such as China, otherwise, the 5


### competitiveness of energy intensive trade exposed 6



### domestic manufacturers such as steel in the 7



### global marketplace could be lessened. 8



### The end result will be that steel 9



### production and manufacturing jobs will shift to 10



### other nations with weaker, less costly 11


### regulations where steel production is less energy 12



### efficient and more environmentally harmful. 13



### In conclusion, agai n, thank you for the 14


### ability to speak on this proposed rule today. 15


### The domestic steel industry has substantial 16



### concerns with the clean power plan, proposed by 17


### the EPA and that it may unilaterally raise the 18



### cost of electricity to large industrial customers 19



### like steel, while potentially lessening the 20



### reliability of our electricity supply. 21



### They will put the steel producers in the 22

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### U.S. at a disadvantage against competitors and 1


### other nations which often subsidize electricity 2



### cost and generally have higher ra tes of GHG 3



### emissions. Such a result would not only be 4


### detrimental to our domestic industry and our 5


### employees, but to the larger global environment. 6



### Thank you. 7



### MS. ESHER: Thank you both. Any 8



### questions from the panel? 9



### Thank you very much. We have o ne more 10



### speaker at this point, Marlene Van Es. I hope I 11



### pronounced your name correctly. 12



### MS. VAN ES: My name is Marlene Van 13



### Es, and I ' m reading this on behalf of Grant La 14



### Rouche of the National Wildlife Federation. 15



### COURT REPORTER: Can you spell the names? 16



### MS. VAN ES: Sure. Marlene, 17



### M

- a

- r

- l

- e

- n

- e, Van Es, V

- a

- n space E

- s. And 18



### Grant La Rouche, G

- r

- a

- n

- t, La Rouche, L

- a, 19



### space, R

- o

- u

- c

- h

- e. 20



### " Thank you for this opportunity to submit 21



### formal testimony regarding EPA ' s proposed Clean 22

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### Power Plan. My nam e is Grant La Rouche from 1


### Annapolis, Maryland and I want to express my 2



### strong support for EPA ' s historic action to 3



### combat climate change by setting limits on carbon 4


### pollution from existing power plants. " 5



### " As a father, I believe we, the people of 6



### the Unite d States of America, have an obligation 7


### to protect our children and future generations 8



### from the impacts of climate change. " 9



### " As an angler and outdoor enthusiast, I 10



### also believe we have an obligation to protect the 11



### fish and wildlife on the front lines of o ur 12



### changing climate. I applaud the EPA for taking 13



### action to combat the root of the problem, carbon 14


### pollution. " 15



### " Growing up in Pennsylvania, I was 16



### confident that my home would be there for me 17



### whenever I needed it. When I look outside the 18



### window of my hou se on the coast of the Chesapeake 19



### Bay, I know my son won ' t have that same 20



### opportunity. " 21



### " I witnessed the damage of the extreme 22

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### weather fueled by climate change in the small 1


### island communities in the Chesapeake Bay where 2



### entire ways of life have been lost to rising 3



### tides. " 4



### " I ' ve witnessed swarms of ticks that only 5


### the most toxic of chemicals can repel when I take 6



### my four

- year

- old out into the woods. " 7



### " I ' ve witnessed the millions of dollars 8



### needed to clean up after Super Storm Sandy. For 9



### these reasons I applaud EPA for taking much 10



### needed steps to reverse the course we are 11



### currently on. " 12



### " The U.S. EPA ' s Clean Power Plan is a 13



### major step in the right direction. This plan will 14


### help speed the way towards a future in which we 15



### can invest more in wildlife frien dly sources of 16



### clean energy and less in fuels that pollute or 17


### air and water and harm our global climate. " 18



### " America was built on innovation. It ' s 19



### time we challenge the biggest polluters to find a 20



### way to be profitable or pass the torch to those 21



### who are wil ling to keep America the world ' s 22

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### leader in innovation. " 1



### " By stimulating innovative solutions and 2



### reducing reliance on coal burning for power 3



### generation in the U.S., the Clean Power Plan will 4


### help protect fish and wildlife. This rule will 5



### recuse the need for more coal mining that ' s 6



### destroying our wildlife ' s habitat with forest 7


### fragmentation, chemicals and carbon pollution. " 8



### " As you finalize the standard, I ask that 9



### you work to ensure that it achieves the deepest 10



### reductions possible by requiring states to use 11


### fish and wildlife friendly renewable energy and 12



### energy efficiency, and not simply more natural 13



### gas burning. " 14



### " Thank you for the opportunity to comment 15


### today and we look forward to working with you to 16



### finalize and implement the Clean Power Plan. We 17



### ho pe you will do everything you can to ensure it 18



### stays strong through the process. Wildlife and 19



### future generations are counting on your 20



### leadership. Thank you. 21



### MS. ESHER: Thank you very much. At this 22

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### point we do not have any speakers that are ready 1



### to c ome up to the podium, so we ' ll take a short 2



### break until we get another list of speakers. 3



### [Recess from 1:52 to 1:54 p.m.] 4



### MS ESHER: And while we ' re settling in 5


### let me just remind people, if you are going to 6



### speak, it would have been helpful if you had 7



### re gistered at the desk. But if you didn ' t, just 8



### come up here and let us know and we ' ll get you up 9



### to the podium. So Thank you. 10



### So Ms. Albright, when you ' re ready? 11


### MS. ALBRIGHT: Okay. My name is Etta 12



### Albright, E

- t

- t

- a, A

- l

- b

- r

- i

- g

-- h

- t, and I 13



### registere d to testify as a wife, mother and 14



### grandmother. 15



### Environmental health is sacred. Do no 16



### more harm. Unhealthy, addictive lifestyles are 17



### difficult to erase and overcome. I trust other 18



### organizations will cover the current scientific 19



### data on which remains f or the impact on our 20



### environment from which many friends before us he 21



### been sounding. 22

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### The increase in intensity and relation of 1


### weather patterns with harmful impact, the 2



### shifting habitats of species in response to these 3



### changes, the impact on health from industry. 4



### What I hope we ' ll accomplish will go much 5


### deeper to the mere fabric of decision making and 6



### the impact on others. 7



### The EPA has made extended room in the 8



### course for stewardship and sustainability for 9



### goodness sake. While the humans for the Clean 10



### Power Plan are directed to reduce carbon 11


### pollution from the coal plants, they have a far 12



### greater impact on all areas of energy production 13



### needs. 14



### As a former state employee, as a 15


### registered nurse in an institution for those who 16



### are mentally retarded, men tally ill, I enjoyed 17


### the freedom of doing the best I could while 18



### embracing potential harmful conditions impacting 19



### quality of life. 20



### Through effective leadership in various 21



### groups and individuals, including state agencies, 22

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### tremendous changes were sought, b een directed and 1


### are improving quality of life for all. Those 2



### were the days before profit was placed ahead of 3



### quality of life as a woman in environmental 4



### health. 5


### The ability and opportunity to speak 6



### truth with respect for knowledge and 7


### understanding has been the tool for many to 8



### implement that is making changes for the good of 9



### all. However, what our leaders to both 10



### democratic and republican leaders is a process of 11


### government with a serious question as to the 12



### environment of employees being able to do thei r 13



### job without retaliation from often vindictive 14


### driven personalities whose only love and 15


### livelihood is dependent on the production and 16



### consumption of coal and other fossil fuels. 17



### I find the administration in control of 18



### our processes of government are egre gious, 19



### powerful individuals threatening and have asked 20



### for the assurance of the Environmental Protection 21



### agency be granted assurances that their jobs will 22

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### be protected for what see established in truth 1


### based on valuable and clean science along with 2



### what we see mandated, the need for new scientific 3



### data to support any industry ' s claim that such 4


### and such industry is safe. And this currently 5


### is with Marcellus Shale Industrial Complex, 6



### allowing industries to put volumes of known and 7



### unknown toxins into the ai r and water and then 8



### tell citizens to prove it ' s harmful and places 9



### cognitive dissidence and hopelessness against the 10



### power industrial barrens, and to be told to trust 11


### he judgment of profit driven industry opposed to 12



### having enforceable regulations to set h ealthy 13



### standards to discourage and control adversarial 14


### home for behaviors. It is enabling the 15


### destructive behaviors based on our country ' s 16



### history. 17


### The simple picture is this. Without 18



### regulations industry carries actual and perpetual 19



### damaging harmful si tuation and then expects you, 20



### the citizen, to take responsibility. This 21



### behavior is against the fabric of good being and 22

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### feeds the venom of unhealthy destructive 1


### relationships. 2



### We must do better. Just the other day a 3



### newspaper article announced the U.S . will sell 4


### dirty coal to other nations. This is 5


### unbelievable and it is tainting my status as a 6



### U.S. citizen. Now you would ask, what companies 7


### are going to be able to sell this dirty coal to 8



### other nations and cause the same kind of problems 9



### there as the y ' re trying to escape her. 10



### And to do research to find the current 11


### status of a national energy policy, I came across 12



### this National Energy Policy Development. WTRG 13



### Economics and Surplus that it refers to this 14


### cite. What it is is a report on the National 15


### Energy Policy Development Group that says America 16



### must have an energy policy that proves for the 17



### future that meets the needs of today. 18



### I believe we can develop very much of our 19



### resources and protect our environment. That was 20



### President George Bush in 200 1. Whatever happened 21



### to that energy policy, or is it a place that we 22

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### could revisit and insist that our nation does 1


### have an energy policy opposed to these types of 2



### crisis management. 3



### I think we can do better. I would think 4



### a great deal of common knowledg e went into the 5


### preparation of the aforementioned document and it 6



### could be used to build on. Crisis management is 7


### not leadership. Thank you for this opportunity. 8



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Mr. Nezbeth? Ms. 9



### Albright, would you mind remaining at the podium 10



### until both of your have finished? 11



### MS. ALBRIGHT: Oh, I ' m sorry. 12



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. That ' s okay. 13



### Thank you very much. 14


### MR. NEZBETH: Good afternoon. My name is 15



### Matthew Nezbeth, M

- a

- t

- t

- h

- e

- w, N

- e

- z, as in 16



### zebra, b

- e

- t

- h. And I am a soon to be gr aduate 17


### of the University of Pittsburgh. 18



### I ' m here today to voice my opinion, very 19



### strongly I might add, in favor of the EPA ' s Clean 20



### Power Plan. I could sit here and read you a list 21



### of scientific evidence that points undeniably to 22

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### the fact that climate ch ange is real, 1


### anthropogenic and that we are already feeling the 2



### effects of it today. 3



### But that ' s not what I ' m here to do. I 4



### would like to take what I believe to be a much 5


### more productive and effective course in making a 6



### difference by debunking the myth th at climate 7


### change action is a battle of costs and jobs 8



### versus the environment, because this simply could 9



### not be further from the truth. 10



### In regards to cost, just in the last 11


### decade advances in solar panel technology have 12



### brought the price of solar panels d own from about 13


### $2.00 per watt to as low as 52 cents per watt. A 14



### five kilowatt residential installation can be as 15


### low as $10,000 and when considering 30 percent 16



### federal tax credit and other state dependent 17


### incentives, you could have a solar system for as 18



### l ittle as $4,000. 19



### Depending on how you conserve energy and 20



### the possibility of a net metering agreement with 21



### a local utility, or being able to sell excess 22

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### generation to the utility at retail price, the 1


### return on investment can be faster than what you 2



### would expect. 3



### The Department of Energy ' s Sun Shot 4


### initiative is a decade long project focused on 5


### making solar energy completely cost competitive 6



### at about six cents per kilowatt hour. Just three 7


### years into the project we are already over 60 8



### percent of the way t here. 9



### With further advances from funding and 10



### projects like this one, solar ca become an 11



### economical and effective solution in the next few 12



### years. When it comes to jobs, the idea of 13



### investing in renewable energy becomes even more 14


### appealing. Exactly how m any people work in the 15


### coal industry? According to the Mine Health and 16



### Safety Administration, there were 137,361 coal 17


### mining employees in 2012. 18



### With the rules proposed by the Clean 19



### Power Plan, many people, especially in the coal 20



### industry fear for the lo ss of their jobs and 21



### falling on hard economic times. 22

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### But I ' m here to tell you this does not 1



### have to be the case. In 2013, a new solar 2



### project was installed every four minutes and the 3



### U.S. solar jobs grew by 20 percent. 4


### According to solar foundation ' s n ational 5


### solar job census of 2013, solar now employs 6



### 142,698 American workers at 18,000 locations in 7


### all 50 states. The industry also continues to 8



### create jobs more than ten times faster than all 9



### the sectors of the U.S. economy. 10



### Solar industry employees expect to 11


### increase their work force by 24 percent in the 12



### next year. With that said, I believe the EPA, 13



### working together with the renewable energy 14


### industry, and the Department of Energy Sun Shot 15


### initiative should work hard to ensure the people 16



### whose jobs m ight be adversely affected by the 17


### Clean Power Plan are well thought of in the 18



### planning process. 19



### I would like to close with a quote that 20



### happens to be a favorite of mine from John F. 21



### Kennedy ' s address at Rice University, September 22

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### 12th, 1962 in which he wa s trying to persuade the 1


### American people to support a manned space flight 2



### to the moon. In the address he says, " We choose 3



### to go to the moon in this decade and do the other 4


### things, not because they are easy, but because 5



### they are hard. " 6



### I know this was a d ifferent time and 7



### different circumstances, but where has that drive 8



### for progress gone? We are a country build on 9



### initiative and innovation and we need to get back 10



### to that. NASA was able to put a man on the moon 11


### in a decade. I firmly believe that if we p ut our 12



### differences aside and come together, we can put 13



### together an effective plan to mitigate the 14


### effects of climate change and help maintain a 15



### beautiful, livable planet for many generations to 16



### come. 17


### It is time to stop making excuses and 18



### start making solu tions for the global problem of 19



### climate change. The Clean Power Plan isn ' t the 20



### solution, but it ' s a large step in the right 21



### direction. Thank you for your time. 22

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### MS. ESHER: Any questions from the 1


### panelists? Thank you both very much. 2



### MR. NEZBETH: Thank you. 3



### MS. ESHER: Our next speaker is 4


### Christopher Burk. It could be Christopher Buck, 5



### I can ' t quite

-- 6



### MR. BURK: Burk, B

- u

- r

- k. 7



### MS. ESHER: Burk? Great. B

- u

- r

- k. 8



### Thank you, Mr. Burk. When you ' re ready. 9



### MR. BURK: Good afternoon. I appreciate 10



### the opportunity to speak with you today. My name 11


### is Christopher Burk, B

- u

- r

- k, and I am speaking 12



### on behalf of the Electric Reliability 13



### Coordinating Council, the ERCC. 14


### ERCC is a broad based coalition of energy 15


### companies that works to ensure that consumers 16



### ac ross the United States to continue to have 17


### reliable, affordable and environmentally 18



### responsible power. 19



### Climate change policy is complicated and 20



### it involves many difficult choices and careful 21



### balancing of costs, risks and benefits. And it 22

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### must take into account the international measure 1


### of carbon emissions. This attempt to establish a 2



### nationwide energy and electricity policy through 3



### EPA regulations, however, is not the best path 4


### for this policy debate. 5



### ERCC shares the concerns about the EPA ' s 6



### proposal that have been raised by many state 7


### officials, energy companies, small business 8



### owners, manufacturers, union members, legal 9



### experts and individuals. 10



### This proposal is an unprecedented use of 11


### an obscure provision of the Clean Air Act that 12



### threatens the reli ability of our country ' s 13



### electricity supply and will result in 14


### significantly higher energy cost, and without 15


### appreciable benefits. 16



### Overall, EPA should not finalize the 17


### proposal as written and should provide additional 18



### time for comments and analyses to be prepared. 19



### The reliability risk created by this proposal are 20



### significant and need to be analyzed carefully 21



### prior to the adoption of climate change policies 22

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### at the federal and state level. 1


### When electricity is unreliable, 2



### vulnerable populations can face lif e threatening 3



### conditions as a result of heat or cold, and the 4


### basic functioning of our economy is imperiled. 5



### EPA ' s proposal increases the risk that 6



### our electricity supply will be less reliable. 7



### EPA ' s building blocks require the states seeking 8



### EPA approv al reconfigure how electricity is 9



### generated and how it is dispatched. At the 10



### time

-- at the end of the process the proposal 11


### also promises that almost a third of the existing 12



### coal fired generation fleet will be retired 13



### between 2020 and 2022. 14



### These plant s currently provide 15


### electricity that sustains our economy and the 16



### health and well

- being of our citizens. When these 17


### plants are shuttered, our electricity supply will 18



### be entirely dependent on EPA predictions about 19



### energy efficiency and the growth of costly 20



### underdeveloped alternative energies. 21



### Our fear is that without these generating 22

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### facilities, another polar vortex or heat wave may 1


### expose the vulnerabilities and subject citizens 2



### and businesses to energy shortages and price 3



### shocks. 4



### EPA is not in the best position to craft 5


### reliability policies, and EPA has never been 6



### tasked with this authority by Congress. 7


### The most effective reliability policies 8



### result from the careful coordination between the 9



### federal energy regulatory commission, state and 10



### regional regul ators, reliability organizations 11



### and other stakeholders. 12



### And under this proposal, EPA would be 13



### given the power to trump their decisions by 14


### approving or disapproving state energy policies. 15



### ERCC is also concerned because EPA ' s 16



### proposal will increase ele ctricity prices for 17



### households and businesses. In fact, EPA admits 18



### that the electricity prices will increase between 19



### six and seven percent nationally in 2020 as a 20



### result of the rule, and some areas facing double 21



### digit increases in electricity prices. 22

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### T hese increases are uniquely harmful to 1


### vulnerable populations such as the poor and the 2



### elderly, because the money needed to pay for 3



### electricity can directly trade off with their 4


### ability to purchase services and products, 5


### including those essential to their health and 6



### well

- being

. 7


### Even small increases in electricity 8



### prices may be harmful, because they are increase 9



### the operating cost for manufacturers, schools and 10



### hospitals, for example. 11


### Those costs will reverberate through all 12



### other sectors of the economy an d our daily life. 13



### The result will be higher prices, fewer jobs and 14



### a slower economy. 15



### EPA has attempted to camouflage these 16



### increases by promising that they will save 17


### households money by encouraging them to use less 18



### electricity. That ' s cold comfort. Kno wing that 19



### the government is trying to make you use less 20



### electricity will do nothing to help people on 21



### fixed incomes who have to run their air 22

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### conditioning units longer during a heat wave or 1


### heat their homes during a cold snap because of 2



### the promise of a gr eater efficiency or lower cost 3



### sometime in the next decade will not pay their 4



### bills at the end of the next month. 5



### Some proponents today and at other 6



### hearings seem to think that the proposed rule 7


### will reduce asthma. Because the rule produces 8



### little, if an y, benefits, EPA appears to 9



### purposely confuse the rule with one design to 10



### address conventional air emissions. In fact, the 11


### EPA admits that conventional air pollution has 12



### been on the decline for many years, and the 13



### Agency has adopted a number of other rule s that 14


### directly affect these sort of emissions, and it 15


### now claims that it would be reducing he same by 16



### the carbon rule. 17


### Put another way, the Agency continues to 18



### pile on new regulatory cost but claims the same 19



### old benefits as it used to justify other costl y 20



### rules. This is called double counting and EPA 21



### should know better. 22

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### Carbon emissions are a global rule, an 1


### issue, finally. Indeed, the carbon emissions 2



### have been stable or in decline over the past 3



### decade. In contrast, U.S. emissions have been 4



### stable or in decline over the last decade. In 5



### contract, Chinese emissions have increased and 6



### Indian emissions have increased substantially. 7


### Therefore, climate policy requires a cooperative 8



### approach incorporating coordinated legislation, 9



### international diplomacy an d a deliberative 10



### process. 11


### The current EPA proposal, however, is the 12



### wrong path. It is risky and expensive and comes 13



### with real risk. I thank you for your time. 14



### MS. ESHER: Thank you very much. Any 15


### questions from the panel? Thank you, sir. 16



### MR. BURK: May we submit the written 17



### report? 18



### MS. ESHER: Yes. You can give it to us. 19



### That ' s very helpful, thank you. 20



### Our next two speakers are Donna Badger 21



### Kopnitsky

-- I ' m sorry if I mispronounced that

-- 22

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### and John Detwiler. When you ' re comfortable and 1



### ready

- - did I get your name right, Kopnitsky. 2



### MS. KOPNITSKY: Kopnitsky, right. Okay. 3



### K

- o

- p

- n

- i

- t

- s

- k

- y. 4


### Hello, my name is Donna Badger Kopnitsky 5



### and I ' m here to support the Clean Power Plan. I 6



### recently received a master of science of 7


### sustainable systems, a nd one thing I learned 8



### while studying sustainable systems is that our 9



### earth is one huge ecosystem comprising thousands 10



### of smaller ecosystems, all delicately interwoven 11


### and interdependent. 12



### Another point I learned is that 13



### greenhouse gases are necessary. W ithout them

-- 14



### without

-- they make a blanket covering the 15



### earth, and without them the sun ' s rays would just 16



### reflect back out into space and we would have no 17



### heat. 18



### But what ' s been happening for the past 19



### 200 years is that we ' ve been thickening this 20



### blanke t of greenhouse gases by putting more and 21



### more carbon into the atmosphere. The more carbon 22

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### that goes in, the heavier the blanket and the 1


### warmer the earth gets. Since the beginning of 2



### human civilization, our atmosphere contained 3



### about 275 ppm, which is pa rts per million of the 4



### ratio of the carbon to all the other molecules in 5



### the atmosphere. 6



### As we burn fossil fuels over the past 200 7



### years, the level has now reached 400 ppm. The 8



### considered safe level to avoid tipping points and 9



### irreversible impacts is 350 ppm. If we continue 10



### at our current pace we will not only continue to 11



### destroy the balance of the ecosystems, we could 12



### make the earth uninhabitable for humans. 13



### The earth will survive. Our future 14


### generations may not. The earth is already 15


### demonstrating th e effects of warming, of which 16



### I ' m sure you are all aware, but let me shout out 17


### a few. The sea levels are rising as well as the 18



### water temperatures, which causes more severe 19



### stores and is a threat to coastal cities and 20



### countries. 21



### Droughts and wildfires are ravaging our 22

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### western states, glaciers are melting, the white 1


### ice sheets reflect sun rays back into

-- away 2



### from the earth. Now, where the ice used to be, 3



### the tundra that was underneath absorbs the heat. 4



### This and more have a cumulative snowball effec t, 5



### and the more that happens, the greater the 6



### effect. 7


### Even hear in western Pennsylvania, severe 8



### storms have increased. Until the 1980s , tornados 9



### were rare, likely to happen once every hundred 10



### years, but now it ' s commonplace to expect a 11



### tornado watch. Bu t that ' s minor compared to 12



### what ' s happening around the world, and we are a 13



### global community, and we need to be a world 14


### leader in reducing carbon emissions. 15


### And it is imperative that we reduce 16



### carbon emissions now. The changes due to warming 17


### are happening at a rate faster than climate 18



### models predicted, and the carbon that ' s there 19



### doesn ' t dissipate quickly, it hangs around a long 20



### time. 21



### But we can and need to get it back down 22

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### to 350 ppm. From a scientific viewpoint, there ' s 1


### no question. So why is there su ch hesitation 2



### about these standards, these standards that just 3



### began to make a move towards reigning in the 4


### amount of carbon going into the air? This is a 5


### time when all people should slap their hands on 6



### their heads and say yes, we need to do this, it 7



### make s sense. Even if it weren ' t as dire as the 8



### latest reports are confirming, it would only make 9



### sense to cut the carbon emissions anyway. 10



### To not limit the amount of carbon we pump 11


### in the air is not only ludicrous, it ' s suicidal. 12



### the increased emissions are already leading to 13



### extinctions. How ironic it would be that we wipe 14


### ourselves off the planet due to denial and greed. 15


### The opposing viewpoints focus on fear and 16



### scare tactics, primarily fear of losing jobs. 17



### But the real scare is what ' s happening to our 18



### planet. There are no jobs on a dead planet. 19



### We need to work together for a 20



### sustainable future. The companies that make 21



### their fortunes in fossil fuels need to turn to 22

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### renewable energies. Consol Solar sounds pretty 1



### good. 2



### The renewable energies are the f uture. 3



### Put the jobs there. The fossil fuels are not 4


### sustainable. It took the earth millions of years 5



### to make the coal and oil reserves. Let ' s value 6



### what ' s left of them. slow down the usage instead 7


### of trying to

-- instead of desperately mining and 8



### dril ling and releasing the millions of years of 9



### stored carbon that is within them. 10



### We can survive any possible economic 11



### effect. We cannot survive increased carbon 12



### levels. I encourage you to fully implement the 13



### carbon power plan

-- 14



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. 15



### MS. KOPNITSKY:

-- or the Clean Power 16



### Plan. 17


### MS. ESHER: And if you could stay there, 18



### please. Mr. Detwiler? 19



### MR. DETWILER: J

- o

- h

- n, D

- e

- t

- w

- i

- l

- e

- r. 20



### Welcome back to Pittsburgh and thank you for the 21



### opportunity to share these thoughts. By way of 22

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### backgro und, I have a PhD in engineering and I 1


### taught at Carnegie Mellon University. I ' m a 2



### registered professional engineer in Pennsylvania 3



### and I ' ve held management positions both in 4


### government, local and federal, and in the 5


### business world in large corporations, and as a 6



### small business owner. 7



### I was a road warrior for IBM for several 8



### years and I appreciate the task that you folks 9



### are performing here. So to make it easy for me, 10



### you can tally my remarks under the category, the 11



### proposal doesn ' t go nearly far enough. 12



### I can speak to its other shortcomings, 13



### but I ' ll focus on fracking. As it stands, the 14



### EPA ' s proposal simply encourages substituting 15


### natural gas for coal in electric generation. Yet 16



### mounting scientific evidence shows that the 17


### natural gas fuel cycle will be as bad or worse 18



### for the climate. 19



### When you leave Pittsburgh this week you 20



### will have gathered your quota of public comments 21



### and you will have tested the political winds, but 22

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### I hope you will take something else back with you 1



### to share with Administrator Mc Carthy and with 2



### President Obama, and that ' s courage. Because 3



### this is a timid proposal. At best, it begins to 4


### acknowledge that something needs to be done, but 5



### it doesn ' t really challenge our business sector, 6



### and it doesn ' t offer much hope for escaping 7



### cli mate catastrophe. 8



### Now, Pittsburgh knows something about 9



### courage. People here stood up to the armed thugs 10



### of Henry Clay Frick. Ordinary people here have 11


### contended with David Roderick, Don Blankenship, 12



### and Audrey McClendon. We don ' t start off by 13



### knucklin g under the big money or high powered 14


### politics. 15



### For four years now I ' ve been a member of 16



### Marcellus Protest, a grassroots group that worked 17


### to pass the first municipal band on fracking, the 18



### first in the world as far as we know, in 2010. 19



### We have no staff , no annual budget, and 20



### no reason to mince words. Some of our members 21



### deliver drinking water to neighbors whose water 22

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### supplies have been destroyed. Some raise money 1


### for air scrubbers for neighbors who can ' t breathe 2



### the air in their own homes. Some hold the hands 3



### of neighbors as they ' re dying from fracking 4



### related cancers. 5


### Marcellus Protest speaks at community 6



### meetings. We educate our local officials, we 7


### carry petitions door to door, we pass the hat. 8



### And some of us have been threatened on the 9



### highways by hostile gas fuel workers. 10



### We do all this not for pay, not for 11


### institutional power jockeying, but because our 12



### families, our communities, our society and 13



### everything we love is threatened with extinction. 14



### We ' re not dealing with political calculations 15



### a bout what ' s possible, what ' s likely to pass or 16



### who has the votes. We ' re standing up and 17


### inviting our fellow citizens to do what ' s 18



### necessary to have a chance of surviving the 19



### climate crisis. 20



### EPA ' s announcement of this Clean Power 21



### Plan has presented our national a terrible 22

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### choice, and it ' s a false choice. It ' s a choice 1


### between supporting a proposal which does a little 2



### bit to address the crisis, and a little bit to 3



### make it worse. First, it ' s letting this proposal 4


### be defeated by those who want to do nothi ng about 5



### climate destruction. 6



### So the big greens have to line up behind 7


### this proposal, and there ' s no one but us in the 8



### grassroots to advocate for what ' s really needed. 9



### Because what we need is a plan that begins to 10



### leave carbon in the ground, not just put ting one 11


### fossil fuel in place of another. 12



### We need a plan that tackles extraction, 13



### not one that tinkers with domestic consumption 14


### while sponsoring exports to be burned somewhere 15


### else. We need a plant that talks plainly to the 16



### American people about what ' s at stake here. Not 17



### these bland bedtime stories about carbon 18



### pollution as if it was just one more high handed 19



### government intrusion into our consumer driven 20



### economy. 21



### We need a plan that begins to turn that 22

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### fossil fuel economy around, not one that 1



### encoura ges investment in more pipelines, more 2



### export terminals, more gas fired generation, and 3



### more and more and more reasons for hearing that 4



### we can ' t afford to do what we ' ll have to do in 5


### order to make any real progress in the future. 6



### So take that message back with you. If 7


### Washington will exert some leadership, will 8



### demonstrate that our government gets it, then the 9



### grassroots will join with you in fighting for 10



### these proposals. But if you ' re convinced that 11


### this plan is the best that we can expect from 12



### inside th e beltway, the do this. Go into the 13



### office, drop your government ID badges on your 14



### manager ' s desk and come back to Pittsburgh and 15


### join us. Thanks for listening. 16



### MS. ESHER: Thank you both for your 17



### comments. Thank you. 18



### Our next two speakers are Kevin Whalen 19



### and Mike Cashin. 20



### I do want to thank the audience for 21



### listening attentively, and being courteous to all 22

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### the speakers, so thank you. I would appreciate 1


### if you would hold your applause. Not only does 2



### it help us to keep things moving along, but it 3



### a lso keeps the air a little bit more fair for 4



### every speaker. But thank you for your 5


### attentiveness, we really appreciate it. 6



### So Mr. Whalen and Mr. Cashin, Mr. Whalen, 7



### why don ' t you go first? Thank you. 8



### MR. WHALEN: Well, my background, I have 9



### a bachelo r of science in biology with an 10



### environmental concentration. I ' ve been involved 11


### in environmental issues since about 1990 with my 12



### firm and another means by founding several

-- or 13



### attempting to found several alternative fuels. 14



### I ' ve trained in installation of solar and wind 15



### power. 16



### Since 1990 the CO2 emissions around the 17


### world have risen by 50 percent or more, driven 18



### mostly by China, Asia, South America and Africa. 19



### In 1990 the U.S. accounted for 66 percent of the 20



### world ' s CO2, and as of the expiration of the 21



### Kyoto Protocol, the U.S. accounts for less than 22

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### 50 percent. 1


### The U.S. was not signatory to the Kyoto 2



### Agreement, but in November of 2012 we exceeded 3



### the levels of reduction in CO2 emissions that 4


### have been set forth in that protocol. The past 5



### winter we had our polar vortex. In the Midwest 6


### and northeast, where power typically runs $44 a 7


### megawatt hour, the price of power jumped over a 8



### thousand dollars a megawatt hour due to demand. 9



### The demand was only met because of the currently 10



### mothballed coal fired power plants. 11



### Coal accounts for 38 percent of the 12



### electric power generated, which is 1340 terawatts 13



### per hour, and the overall demand is expected to 14



### grow by 15 percent by 2030. 15



### What can replace expected loss of 24 16



### percent of our coal fired power plants if this 17


### law goes into effect? Currently, nuclear 18



### capacity is less than 20 percent of our current 19



### needs, with existing operational facilities at 20



### levels exceeding 90 percent total capacity, 21



### following 30 plus hears of little to no growth in 22

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### capacity. There is an ex pectation of six new 1


### units coming on line by 2020, from 16 2



### applications for 24 units filed since 2007. 3



### There have been four units retired in the 4


### last five years and ten more currently operating 5


### units are at risk of closure after 2014, giving 6



### us a net ga in by 2020 of minus four. 7


### Natural gas, it ' s not even worth 8



### discussing because the current pipeline 9



### infrastructure cannot support the required growth 10



### to cover the intended loss of capacity. If we 11


### expand the infrastructure to accept the needed 12



### growth, it w ill take 15 or more years and 13



### actually lead to a net increase of CO2 emissions 14


### by 2030 based on increase demand that ' s expected. 15


### Solar, 140,000 installations last year, 16



### approximately 4,500 megawatts, 3,250 was 17


### commercial and utility and 1,250 was consumer

. 18



### It ' s currently not economical to produce solar 19



### panels due to global over supply. This can be 20



### seen by the failed companies such as Solyndra, 21



### Flabeg, which was here locally. 22

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### This, after even taxpayer guaranteed 1



### loans, as well as the loss of tax initiati ves has 2



### caused this. Currently there is 13,000 megawatts 3



### of capacity at the end of 2013, and this supply 4


### is not consistent, and capacity varies with 5



### weather. 6



### Wind, at the end of the first quarter of 7


### 2014 there was 61,327 megawatts available. 8



### That ' s les s than three percent of our current 9



### need. Again, it ' s affected by wind

-- you know, 10



### affected by the weather and the turbines are 11


### extremely high maintenance. Taking offline will 12



### be frequent. 13



### Now, we look at manufacturers of that, 14



### Gamesa, which was here i n Pennsylvania, beginning 15


### of this year announced a closure due to a loss of 16



### tax incentives. These tax incentives create a 17



### false need or economy and unfortunately, do not 18



### create the ground swell so many hope for. 19



### Again, delays in permitting, fights with 20



### e nvironmental groups, et cetera, have caused 21



### problems. they ' re not economical to produce or 22

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### install. What else can take the place of these 1


### coal plants? Biomass? Still in its early 2



### stages? 3



### Ethanol. It costs three bucks to produce 4



### every dollar ' s worth o f fuel. 5


### Algae, still in its early stages and 6



### maybe ten years away from potential full scale 7



### commercial use. 8



### The biggest loss, though, is going to be 9



### with jobs and personal financial impact on 10



### consumers and the economy. I ' ll not bore you 11



### with what ' s you ' ve heard from everybody else, 12



### including big business and labor. What I ' ll tell 13



### you about is the backbone for America. 14


### You know, you raise my electric bill 300, 15



### 400 percent, I can ' t buy, my purchasing power 16



### goes down. I have a good friend by the name of 17


### Mark Gracy (phonetic), who owns a company called 18



### Bully Tools, which is headquartered over in 19



### Stubenville, Ohio. When I first met him, he had 20



### four employees. He currently has 30, running two 21



### shifts. He ' s taking back jobs from China. He ' s 22

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### beating the Ch inese at their own game. He ' s more 1


### competitive. 2



### You raise his electric rates 300 to 400 3



### percent, he has two options

-- and he told me of 4



### both

-- close his plant and close his plant. 5


### How many small businesses will this 6



### affect? How many jobs will be los t to the 7


### overseas. What will it ultimately cost America? 8



### For myself, this law makes no sense. If 9



### I take 24 percent of my fleet of the road and I 10



### decide and try to make ends meet, I got to raise 11


### my prices, and I have to, you know, eventually 12



### wind up go ing out of business. 13



### My opinion, we need to flush this 14



### economic turd. 15


### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Mr. Cashin. 16



### COURT REPORTER: Can you please spell 17



### your last name? 18



### MR. WHALEN: W

- h

- a

- l

- e

- n. 19



### MR. CASHIN: Hi. Michael Cashin, 20



### M

- i

- c

- h

- a

- e

- l, C

- a

- s

- h

- i

- n. 21



### MS . ESHER: Thank you. 22

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### MR. CASHIN: Good afternoon. My name is 1



### Michael Cashin. I ' m an environmental policy 2



### advisor for Minnesota Power ALLETE. And 3



### Minnesota Power is a small investor owned 4


### electric utility. We ' re headquartered in Duluth, 5



### Minnesota, and we serve some of the largest 6



### industrial customers in the country. 7


### The delivery of reliable, affordable and 8



### environmentally responsible energy services to 9



### our customers with the explicit recognition with 10



### our energy intensive industrial customers need to 11



### re main cost competitive in international markets 12



### is a key tenant to the economic vitality to our 13



### region. 14



### More than half of Minnesota Power ' s 15


### electric output is consumed by 13 large 16



### industrial customers that are energy intensive. 17


### The iron mining sector, whi ch supplies raw 18



### material to the domestic iron and steel industry 19



### represents a large share of our electric sales 20



### and is critically important to Minnesota, 21



### Minnesota Power and indeed to the Pittsburgh area 22

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### as our largest electric power customer, United 1



### State s Steel, has its corporate headquarters here 2



### in downtown Pittsburgh. 3



### Minnesota Power is implementing our 4


### energy forward strategy, which was part of 5



### Minnesota ' s integrated resource plan process. 6



### Energy forward is an effective and balanced 7



### response to tran sition our generation fleet away 8



### from a mix of about 95 percent coal and five 9



### percent renewable starting in 2005, towards the 10



### balanced mix of one

- third each of renewable 11


### energy, natural gas, and coal fueled electric 12



### generation by about 2030. 13



### Customer cons ervation improvements and 14


### energy efficiency programs are also a key 15



### component of our energy forward strategy. 16



### Minnesota utilities and policymakers have 17


### already been addressing all four of EPA ' s best 18



### system of emission reduction blogs. Our early 19



### action ju stifies EPA revising its Minnesota Clean 20



### Power Plan targets so that Minnesota consumers 21



### are not punished for the good deeds our forward 22

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### looking policy makers have already put in place, 1



### and for which Minnesota Power ' s Electric 2



### customers are already paying. 3



### Minnesota ' s past initiatives have largely 4


### implement the measures identified in three of the 5


### flour blocks proposed by EPA for regulation. 6



### Remaining BSER block two would compel 7


### preferential dispatch of existing natural gas, 8



### combined cycle generation favore d over lower cost 9



### coal generation, up to a 70 percent capacity 10



### factor for the existing natural gas combined 11


### cycle generation. 12



### But EPA ' s block two biases natural gas 13



### generation while it ignores Minnesota ' s all in 14


### integrated resource planning process. It a lready 15


### considers factors such as the natural gas price 16



### volatility, price risk hedging and the types of 17


### electric generation needed to serve different 18



### customer classes and needs. 19



### For example, in Minnesota, we have the 20



### need to serve the metro area daily gene ration 21



### peaks with volt swings. We have built out of 22

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### wind, which needs intermittent generation support 1


### to compensate for the winds not blowing, which 2



### can amount to over five percent of the time in 3



### our region. 4


### And we also have to provide for voltage 5



### suppor t in 24/7 baseload service for large 6



### industrial sources in northeast Minnesota. 7



### So EPA ' s Clean Power Plan upsets the 8



### balance the Minnesota policymakers have strived 9



### to achieve through weighing strong environmental 10



### protections with cost impacts and reliabi lity 11


### requirements in our integrated resource planning 12



### process. 13



### So with my remaining time I want to do a 14


### few call outs on the blocks of things that we ' re 15


### planning on formalizing a bit more by our October 16



### 16th callout. And I also thank you for the 17



### opportun ity to comment. 18



### One of the things involved with block one 19



### is that EPA set up a six percent target, and in 20



### Minnesota, by practice, we ' ve already deployed 21



### the type of efficiency measures that EPA outlined 22

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### in their technical support documentation. 1



### Consequ ently, we have a rendition of 2



### early action that ' s applicable for that that ' s 3



### not getting consideration. Under block two, I 4



### gave reference already to concern about the 5


### natural gas swap over, but it ' s interesting that 6



### Minnesota is utilizing our gas combined cycle at 7


### about half the level of utilization the EPA says 8



### that the full country is operating at. 9



### That raises a red flag for us in terms of 10



### whether the conditions in Minnesota and the 11


### markets have been given consideration. Thank 12



### you. 13



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Any questions for 14



### our speakers? Thank you both. 15


### Our next two speakers are Dustin White 16



### and Representative Mike Foley. Hello. Thank you 17


### very much, and Mr. White, we ' ll let you go first 18



### and then we ' ll let

-- Representative Foley, we ' ll 19



### let you end this session and we ' ll take a five 20



### minute break after you speak. Thank you. 21



### MR. WHITE: Thank you. My name is Dustin 22

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### White, D

- u

- s

- t

- i

- n, W

- h

- i

- t

- e. I am a community 1


### organizer with the Ohio Valley Environmental 2



### Coalition. I am an eleventh generation W est 3



### Virginia resident and I am a former coal 4



### supporter. 5


### I am here today to represent communities 6



### that I feel are not often mentioned when we talk 7


### about reducing emissions from coal fired power 8



### plants. I am speaking of the communities where 9



### they mine the coal for these power plants. 10



### From the Navajo nation to the Powder 11


### River Basin and to my home in central Appalachia, 12



### people are living in the wake of the extraction 13



### process and can attest that coal, from cradle to 14


### grave, is harmful to public health. 15



### I a m a southern West Virginian and I have 16



### been around coal all my life. I feel that we 17


### need to talk realistically about the human health 18



### impact of carbon pollution and not just its 19



### contribution to climate change. As a West 20



### Virginian from so called coal coun try, I support 21



### the EPA ' s effort, and believe me there are many 22

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### in Appalachia who do as well. We ' ve already 1



### heard from some here and in Denver. 2



### You cannot realistically talk about 3



### emissions without discussing the extraction, 4


### because they are, indeed linke d. Let ' s call it 5


### what it is. Coal pollution. By regulating the 6



### amount of pollution that is produced by power 7


### plants, you are also helping limit the amount of 8



### coal that the industry, on a daily basis, rips 9



### from the ground and blows up entire mountains 10



### fo r. 11



### Whether you ' re living with a coal fired 12



### power plant in your backyard or a mountaintop 13



### removal site above your community, you and your 14


### neighbors are getting sick because of the impacts 15


### to the air quality, among others. The extraction 16



### process, as well a s pollution from power plants 17


### is polluting our air, water and land. Coal does 18



### not have a life cycle. It is a slow death march. 19



### I am not a scientist, I ' m just a hollow 20



### boy from Boone County, West Virginia, and I can ' t 21



### sit here and quote statistics. I d eal in 22

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### reality. 1


### I am living witness to people who are 2



### getting sick and dying from coal related 3



### pollution. There are numerous peer reviewed 4


### scientific studies that help confirm this. I 5



### know the EPA has these studies, so I don ' t have 6



### to quote them. 7



### I can spend hours telling stories of 8



### those who suffer like a 20

- year

- old girl in my 9



### home county who has multiple types of cancer. At 10



### 31 years old, I am now middle aged for a West 11


### Virginian, and have outlived people I played with 12



### as a child. 13



### My father, a retir ed union coal miner 14


### passed away from cancer in March at the age of 15


### 65. He and I were impacted in January, along 16



### with over 300,000 others in my state without 17


### water for months when a chemical used by coal, 18



### MCHM, spilled into our public water system. And 19



### ju st once before another chemical used by coal 20



### DT50D, turned an entire river white for miles. 21



### If anyone in the extraction industry 22

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### would like to argue that they have a hard job, 1


### try telling a family that they might be poisoning 2



### their children by bathing the m, or try taking 3



### care of your dying bedfast father by melting snow 4


### and boiling creek water. 5



### But I know we ' re here to talk about air 6



### pollution, not water pollution. I ' m sure there 7


### are residents living near coal fired power plants 8



### who can tell similar horr or stories because they 9



### live near these plants, not to mention the 10



### environmental havoc carbon dioxide reaps on our 11


### planet. There is a war taking place but it is 12



### not on coal. 13



### There are those in the coal industry and 14


### in Congress who try to rebuke and cast out on the 15


### science while people, including children, die 16



### from this pollution. They simply do not care. 17


### They only care about their profit and campaign 18



### donations. Politicians, especially the West 19



### Virginia delegation, will contend that jobs are 20



### at risk by regulations the EPA sets forth. 21



### This SEIA not true, and most of the coal 22

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### mined back home isn ' t even for electricity 1


### generation anymore, it ' s metallurgical. And even 2



### if it were to be true, let ' s be clear, no one has 3



### a job that ' s more important than someon e else ' s 4



### health. 5


### Coal is an archaic energy source. There 6



### are safer, cleaner ways to produce electricity 7



### where human lives are not sacrificed, and I don ' t 8



### mean natural gas or nuclear. It is ashamed that 9



### the country that won the arms race and the space 10



### ra ce is now falling behind in the clean energy 11



### race. 12



### Coal pollution of any type is a moral and 13



### human health issue and I urge you the EPA, as 14


### public servants, to protect the public and move 15


### forward with any and all regulations against coal 16



### pollution. We mu st come together and end coal 17


### cycle of death and the onslaught against the 18



### people. 19



### No one should have to live with the 20



### respiratory issues, the birth defects, cancers 21



### and other health issues that coal is responsible 22

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### for. We in Appalachia are already five minutes 1


### till midnight and we are looking at becoming the 2



### nation ' s largest super funds site. 3



### For the sake of our planet, for the sake 4


### of public health and the sake of prosperity, 5



### let ' s stop talking and EPA, please, do your job. 6



### Thank you. 7



### MR. ESHER: T hank you, Mr. White. 8



### Representative Foley? 9



### MR. FOLEY: Thank you. Good afternoon 10



### everyone, my name is Mike Foley. I ' m a State 11


### Representative from the neighboring state of 12



### Ohio. I live in Cleveland and represent the 13



### 120,000 people in the 14th House Dis trict. 14


### I would like to thank everyone here for 15


### giving me an opportunity to speak on the recently 16



### proposed Clean Power Plan. 17



### The well

- being of the environment will 18



### has been an issue I ' ve tried to fight for during 19



### my eight

- year tenure as a state represen tative. 20



### As the father of four children who mean the world 21



### to me, I am constantly wondering and worrying 22

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### about what the condition of the planet will be in 1



### 10, 20 or 30 years down the road. 2



### We know climate change is occurring and 3



### human made emissions are the largest contributing 4



### factor. These are facts that 97 percent of 5


### scientists agree on and should not be points of 6



### contention or debate. 7



### I believe that the United States is 8



### currently at a crossroads. What actions we take 9



### now to mitigate our impact on the environment 10



### will define what happens in our future. 11



### Currently, we can already see the effects 12



### of climate change through severe weather events 13



### and warmer than average temperatures, coupled 14


### with one of the coldest winters in recent memory. 15



### Glaciers in the Antarctic have begun to 16



### melt and scientists say that the process is now 17



### irreversible. Failure to take action on climate 18



### change means that storms will become stronger and 19



### deadlier. Local ecologies will begin to change, 20



### migration patterns of animals wi ll be disrupted. 21



### At some point if left unabated, migration 22

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### patterns of humans and people will change as 1



### well. 2



### As coastal areas, we come under water, 3



### and storms associated with hurricanes, typhoons 4


### and tornados will become more devastating. 5


### The signs of a changing world are all 6



### around us and there is no longer time to wait, we 7


### must act immediately. 8



### While climate change has been occurring 9



### for some time now, it is an issue that until 10



### recently has been kept out of the spotlight. 11



### Other issues, such as the e conomy, foreign 12



### policy, have garnered most of the media 13



### attention. 14


### However, due to highly publicized 15



### scientific consensus and extreme weather 16



### phenomena, climate change has finally become part 17



### of the mainstream conversation, and I ' m happy 18



### about that. 19



### Peop le are talking about climate change 20



### because its effects are now impossible to ignore. 21



### The Clean Power Plan, for the first time, allows 22

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### the environment to take center stage, 1


### highlighting the importance of protecting our 2



### planet and ensuring we have a sustai nable and 3



### healthy future. 4


### Climate change must be considered a moral 5


### imperative for our country if we are to effect 6



### any positive change going forward. The Clean 7


### Power Plan is a crucial step in combating the 8



### effects of climate change. 9



### By having power plan ts reduce their 10



### carbon dioxide emissions by up to 30 percent, we 11


### are making an important and necessary commitment 12



### to the environment. The EPA states that power 13



### plants are the largest emitters of carbon dioxide 14


### in the country, accounting for 38 percent of CO2 15



### emissions. The United States is the second 16



### largest emitter of CO2 in the world behind China. 17


### Unfortunately, I know firsthand the 18



### importance of the proposed rule. This past April 19



### the White House released the national assessment 20



### of climate change and it was found that the 21



### Midwest emits 20 percent more greenhouse gasses 22

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### per capita than the national average. This is 1


### due to the Midwest reliance on dirty sources of 2



### energy, mostly because of coal. 3



### In my home state of Ohio, the situation 4



### is dire. Ohio is the fourth highest emitter of 5


### carbon dioxide in the nation and fifth highest 6



### emitter of greenhouse gases in the nation. Ohio 7


### is one of the states that would truly benefit 8



### from the enactment of the Clean Power Plan to 9



### help stem the tide of pollutants that we send 10



### into the air. 11


### Recently, Ohio took an unprecedented and 12



### irrational step backward by becoming the first 13



### state in the country to freeze a renewable energy 14


### and energy efficiency standards. The renewable 15


### energy and efficiency standards have gotten us on 16



### a path to reducing our impact on the environment 17


### by keeping millions of tons of CO2 out of the 18



### atmosphere. 19



### Now, with the future of those standards 20



### up in the air, Ohio runs the risk of returning to 21



### its polluting past. The Clean Power Plan will 22

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### help to ensure that we are continuing down the 1


### path of sustainability even if our standards are 2



### ultimately lowered or repealed. 3



### I know that implementing these new 4


### regulations will be a challenge for our country, 5


### but it is a challenge we must be ready to meet. 6



### Climate change is a problem we must start solving 7



### now. We cannot continue to kick that can further 8



### down the road and keep our heads buried in the 9



### sand. 10



### Many will have you believe that the coal 11


### industry cannot afford to have these regulations 12



### put into pla ce but that is not the case. It is a 13



### citizen to the United States that cannot afford 14


### having millions of tons of CO2 pumped into the 15


### atmosphere. And it is our planet that cannot 16



### afford to have us remain indifferent. 17



### While we cannot solve the climate chan ge 18



### problem single handedly, this is a major start to 19



### fulfilling our obligations to protect our 20



### planet ' s environmental health. If we don ' t lead 21



### the way then who will If we cannot ask ourselves 22

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### to act in the best interest of the environment, 1



### how can we ask other countries to do the same. 2



### We pride ourselves on being leaders in this 3



### world. Well, let ' s act like it regarding the 4


### most important threat to our existence that we ' ve 5



### ever faced. 6



### I am proud to state my support for the 7



### Clean Power Plan. I am proud o f our President 8



### and the EPA for being forward thinking and for 9



### putting the needs of our planet over the greed of 10



### big business. I will continue to do whatever I 11



### can to advocate for our environment and for a 12



### planet that is as healthy as can be for my four 13



### c hildren. 14


### Again, thank you for letting me speak 15


### here today. And I do want to say I think that it 16



### is just vitally important that the EPA take 17



### action here. I ' ve spent the last six months 18



### fighting against, you know, a retraction of our 19



### clean energy standard s in Ohio, and I don ' t 20



### trust

-- I don ' t trust the state of Ohio to move 21



### forward without federal intervention and federal 22

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### action on forcing us to do the right thing. So I 1


### appreciate your time here. 2



### MS. ESHER: Thank you both very much. 3



### And we ' re going to take a five minute break now. 4


### So thank you, again, to all the audience for 5


### participating. 6



### [Recess from 2:42 to 2:56 p.m.] 7


### MS. ESHER: Our next two speakers will be 8



### Evan Endrus and Gary Keir. And Mr. Endrus, when 9



### you ' re ready. 10



### MR. ENDRUS: Sure. My name is Evan R. 11



### Endrus. I ' m a resident of Pittsburgh, 12



### Pennsylvania, a United States citizen, registered 13



### voter and taxpayer. 14



### MR. GORDON: Can you spell your last name 15



### for us? 16



### MR. ENDRUS: Last name, E

- n

- d

- r

- u

- s. 17



### First name Evan, E

- v

- a

- n 18



### I ' m here today to voice my support for 19



### the EPA ' s proposed carbon rules as it is critical 20



### to the future health of the American economy. 21



### These rules should be implemented promptly and 22

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### without delay. 1


### My interest in climate change stems from 2



### great concern of the economic consequences of 3



### failing to act. The extreme weather events and 4


### pressure from changes to climate on our 5


### agriculture industries have a real cost that is 6



### borne by all taxpayers. My tax dollars go to 7


### support FEMA, National Flood Insurance programs 8



### and Feder al Crop Insurance, all of which are 9



### being utilized more frequently and with greater 10



### cost than ever before. 11



### In addition, consumer cost associated 12



### with market disruption from climate related 13



### incidents are impacting consumers, including 14



### myself, at the grocer y store. 15


### Colder winters and hotter summers put 16



### immediate burden on managing the effects of 17


### climate change on some of our most vulnerable 18



### elderly and low income residents. The cost of 19



### caring for these individuals when they do not 20



### have the resources to end ure these extremes is 21



### borne by all of us through funding the public 22

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### health, community and first responder programs, 1


### further increasing taxation and straining local 2



### budgets. 3



### The economic benefit associated with 4


### addressing carbon pollution goes far beyond 5



### m itigating the cost of impacts. The EPA outlines 6



### a plan by which states can use renewable energy 7


### and energy efficiency measures to comply. These 8



### strategies will pay dividends to the American 9



### economy in the form of renewable energy and 10



### energy efficiency jo bs. 11


### The Department of Energy modeling has 12



### shown that Pennsylvania alone could achieve 13



### 90,000 jobs from having just 20 percent of our 14


### electricity come from renewable energy sources 15


### like solar and wind by 2030. 16



### The cost of doing nothing far outweighs 17



### the c ost and benefits to the American economy 18



### associated with implementing and enforcing this 19



### rule. I speak in one hundred percent support of 20



### the Environmental Protection Agency, the proposed 21



### standards you ' ve outlined and your authority 22

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### under the Clean Air Act to enforce them. Thank 1



### you. 2



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Mr. Keir 3



### MR. KEIR: Yeah, my name is Gary Keir, 4



### K

- e

- i

- r, first name Gary, G

- a

- r

- y. Thank you for 5


### this opportunity. 6



### I am seeking consideration for carbon 7


### exprint (phonetic) as a viable carbon mitiga tion 8



### strategy. Carbon exprint is a patent pending 9



### process that certifies carbon allowances by 10



### making a socially responsible investment in 11


### renewable energy and energy efficiency. 12



### A company or individual offsets their 13



### carbon footprint by buying a term depo sit or bond 14


### from a financial institution or utility. The 15


### instrument is priced at the cost of one ton of 16


### greenhouse gas. One ton is $25, ten tons, $250 17



### and so on. 18



### The purchase certifies that the entity 19



### took action for their greenhouse gases. The 20



### financi al institution pools these deposits and 21



### dedicates this pool of money to finance energy 22

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### efficiency and renewable energy projects. At the 1


### end of the term, the entity gets their money back 2



### plus interest. 3



### So just a quick recap, the company or 4



### individual ha s a desire or need to reduce their 5


### carbon footprint. They measure their carbon 6



### footprint. They purchase carbon exprints, CDs or 7


### bonds based on their tons of greenhouse gases. 8



### They ' re certified for taking responsibility. 9



### That money is then used to finan ce greenhouse gas 10



### reduction projects. At the end of the term they 11


### get their money back plus interest. 12



### How can carbon exprint help ETUs meet 13



### carbon pollution limits? The utility can simply 14


### buy carbon exprints, CDs and bonds as carbon 15



### allowances from fina ncial institutions to reach 16



### the EPA imposed limit. Their money would be tied 17


### up for some time but it would get it back with 18



### interest. 19



### During the time the money is tied up, it 20



### would be creating renewable energy, energy 21



### efficiency and reducing greenhouse g asses. This 22

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### is the alternate goal of the EPA proposal. 1


### Carbon exprint process is also flexible. 2



### Down the road the EDU could use the capital and 3



### interest from these bonds as a down payment on 4


### their own greenhouse gas reduction project. They 5



### could donate these bonds as part of their 6



### charitable giving. 7


### The utility could also use the carbon 8



### exprint process to sell utility revenue bonds, 9



### raising capital dedicated to creating renewable 10



### energy, energy efficiency, storage, smart grids 11



### and other greenhouse gas reduction projects 12



### Since the utility and their customers 13



### share the responsibility of creating carbon 14


### pollution, they Could share the carbon allowance. 15



### The sale of bonds purchased by the customer would 16



### be used as allowances against the utility ' s 17



### carbon po llution limit set by the EPA. The 18



### customer could purchase these bonds manually or 19



### they could automatically be purchased on their 20



### bill each time their energy usage created one ton 21



### of greenhouse gas. 22

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### Carbon exprint advantages over cap and 1



### trade and renewab le energy credits. With the 2



### carbon exprint, the price of carbon is stable. It 3



### does not require a complex trading structure. 4


### The change behavior, the approach of cap and 5


### trade and RECs is either punishment for action 6



### taken in the present and/or a reward f or action 7


### taken in the past. By paying penalties, these 8



### approaches make it more difficult for companies 9



### to achieve of those limits. 10



### With these approaches, money is paid to 11


### existing renewable energy and energy efficiency. 12



### Carbon exprint ' s flexibility a nd ROI make it 13



### easier for companies to stay competitive and 14


### achieve the imposed limits. Money is invested in 15


### creating new renewable energy and energy 16



### efficiency. 17


### With carbon exprints, the use of 18



### standardized loans, such as Investor Confidence 19



### Project, l eads to the securitization and the sale 20



### of these loans. Recycling these money for 21



### additional new renewable energy and energy 22

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### efficiency. 1


### The current approaches are a defensive 2



### posture designed to hold our ground. A 3



### successful approach will be one that i s on the 4


### offensive, creating, building, progressing, and 5


### gaining new ground. Nothing motivates like 6



### progress. 7


### Carbon exprint addresses two of climate 8



### changes biggest needs, the need to take action 9



### for our carbon pollution and the need of 10



### trillions of d ollars in investment to change our 11


### energy infrastructure. 12



### It rewards action today and gets money 13



### toward what is needed to do the most good, by 14


### creating energy efficiency and renewable energy. 15


### It is a simple, flexible and profitable approach. 16



### We can have a strategy that rewards action and 17



### promotes growth. Thank you. 18



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Mr. Kier. Thank 19



### you, Mr. Endrus. 20



### Our next speaker is Kevin Sheen, and 21



### Kevin will be delivering two testimonies, so I ' m 22

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### going to ask that he come up to the podium al ong. 1


### Thank you, Mr. Sheen. And if you could spell 2



### your name for the court reporter that would be 3



### helpful. 4



### MR. SHEEN: Kevin, K

- e

- v

- i

- n, Sheen, 5



### S

- h

- e

- e

- n. Thank you for the opportunity to 6



### speak today. I guess first I ' m speaking on 7



### behalf of the Allia nce of Clean Energy in New 8



### York. I ' m the Chairman of the Board of Directors 9



### for the Alliance for Clean Energy in New York. 10



### ACE New York is an alliance of clean energy 11


### companies and public interest organizations. Our 12



### mission is to promote the use of clea n energy 13



### technologies and energy efficiency in New York 14


### state in order to increase energy diversity and 15


### security, boost economic development, improve 16



### public health and reduce air pollution. 17



### ACE was established with the believe that 18



### belief that clean energ y is good for business. 19



### My company Everpower Wind Holdings is an owner, 20



### developer and operator of utility grade wind 21



### projects. ACE has other utility scale wind 22

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### members as well as distributed wind energy, fuel 1



### sale, hydropower, large and small solar 2



### compa nies. 3



### Our premise is the pursuit of clean 4


### energy for the public good can build markets and 5


### business growth, creating jobs and keeping energy 6



### dollars in state. 7



### EPA ' s proposed Clean Power Plan also 8



### recognizes this opportunity. ACE welcomes 9



### proposal and u ses great for business growth in 10



### New York, an important opportunity to modernize 11


### the electric power system and ensure it can meet 12



### our needs for safe, reliable and affordable 13



### energy in the 21st century. 14


### We especially support incorporating the 15



### role played b y zero emitting renewables when 16



### setting the state carbon reduction targets, the 17


### inclusion of interim targets to help ensure 18



### states meet their carbon reduction requirements, 19



### and allowing clean energy and energy efficiency 20



### as a compliance option. 21



### We also su pport the endorsement of 22

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### programs like state renewable electrical

-- 1


### electricity standards as a compliance option and 2



### allowing multi state opportunities for reducing 3



### carbon emissions. 4


### New York State participates in the 5


### Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, RGGI, as it ' s 6



### known. As a RGGI state, New York has an 7


### excellent foundation for compliance. A recent 8



### analysis by Morgan Stanley Research Group 9



### predicts that the RGGI states will collectively 10



### be over their compliance with the carbon target 11



### EPA has propose d without any additional cost. 12



### This suggests that a more aggressive target for 13



### RGGI states may be warranted. 14


### Within the RGGI construct, compliance 15



### will be more cost effective overall if a 16



### reduction in the RGGI cap is accomplished by a 17



### robust and sustaine d investment in utility scale 18



### renewable behind the meter renewables and energy 19



### efficiencies. 20



### Generally speaking, we feel the EPA ' s 21



### assumptions related to renewable energy and 22

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### energy efficiencies underestimate the amount of 1


### timely and cost effective emissi ons reductions 2



### available. 3



### In its final rule, we strongly encourage 4


### the EPA to strengthen its assumptions of 5


### renewable energy and energy efficiency to reflect 6



### resource availability and demonstrated market 7


### realities rather than the averages of current 8



### stat e mandates. 9



### For example, in New York, a recent study 10



### prepared by NYSERDA found that large reservoirs 11


### of clean energy potential exists. Energy 12



### efficiency and renewable energy potential study 13



### of New York State estimated that bounded 14


### technical potential for renewable energy 15


### developed to be 70 percent of total electricity 16



### demand by 2030, and the economic potential to be 17



### 30 percent of total demand. 18



### That study stated that the projected 19



### economic potential level could be surpassed if 20



### innovative policies could be developed to 21



### accelerate market transformation and broaden the 22

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### base of cost effective renewable resources. 1


### The greatest potential increase is in 2



### solar energy, which currently represents less 3



### than one percent of the New York State energy 4



### supply, but could rise to as much as 15 percent 5


### of the New York State supply if the state 6



### captured all the solar resources that are 7


### currently available. 8



### The potential for in state wind energies 9



### are also significant. From the technical 10



### standpoint the study found 11 percent of the 11



### state ' s total energy supply could come from 12



### onshore and offshore wind by 2030. ACE New York 13



### is a strong advocate for offshore wind, which has 14


### an excellent potential in New York and the 15


### ability to site pollution free generation close 16



### to the growing needs of New York City and Long 17



### Island. 18



### Considering this vast potential, ACE also 19



### seeks to have New York establish aggressive but 20



### achievable long term goals for energy efficiency, 21



### renewables, specifically. Fifty percent 22

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### renewable energy by 2025 and 20 p ercent projected 1


### demand met by efficiency by 2025. 2



### Current conditions and past experience in 3



### New York sport the EPA ' s position that compliance 4


### with Clean Energy Plan will not be an undue 5



### burden on consumers or businesses. 6



### In New York the clean energy i ndustry is 7


### already producing significant carbon emission 8



### reductions by lowering its cost to consumers and 9



### benefitting the economy. 10



### For example, to date, the main tier of 11



### New York ' s landmark renewable portfolio standard 12



### programmed has the cumulative net im pact of 13



### essentially zero due to the price suppression 14


### effects of new wind generation. 15



### The RPS has estimated benefit cost to 16



### ratio of 91 under a high CO2 value. 17


### I see my little red light is on, so 18



### again, we recommend the EPA draft power plan to 19



### support this approach, reducing emissions from 20



### electricity sector, we believe carefully crafted 21



### final rule ideally where one goes further and 22

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### faster. Thank you for allowing me to share ACE ' s 1



### comments. 2



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. 3



### MR. SHEEN: I ' ll put the other hat o n 4


### now. Now I would like to testify on behalf of 5


### QSPA (phonetic) Wind, and my name is still 6



### spelled K

- e

- v

- i

- n, S

- h

- e

- e

- n, just in case you 7


### were wondering. 8



### QSPA Wind is an initiative of working on 9



### educating and promoting customers to power their 10



### home or bu sinesses with one hundred percent 11


### locally sourced Pennsylvania wind energy. We 12



### support the EPA ' s Clean Power Plan proposed rule 13



### that would cut carbon emissions from power 14



### plants. 15


### The increased Pennsylvania wind energy 16



### will be an important tool for reduci ng emissions 17


### in Pennsylvania. For example, one single two meg 18



### watt turbine would produce about 5,000 megawatt 19



### hours a year of electricity, reducing carbon 20



### dioxide emissions by over 3,000 ton, the 21



### equivalent of taking approximately 677 cars off 22

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### the road ev ery year. That ' s just one turbine. 1


### The Twin Ridges Wind farm, which is owned 2



### by EverPower, for example, offsets approximately 3



### 235,000 tons of carbon dioxide each year, the 4


### equivalent of taking approximately 50,000 cars 5



### off the road. 6



### The proposed EPA Cle an Power Plan is an 7


### opportunity for Pennsylvania to utilize its wind 8



### power resources to reduce carbon emissions and 9



### promote cleaner air. 10



### Pennsylvania has been a leader in wind 11


### power, already hosting 24 wind power projects, 12



### enough energy for approximately 326,000 average 13



### U.S. homes, plus more untapped potential. 14


### Taking advantage of its wind resource to 15



### achieve the EPA ' s carbon emission reduction 16



### targets would been beneficial to Pennsylvania in 17



### regards to both health and the economy. 18



### In terms of health, Pi ttsburgh 19



### specifically has an air quality issue affecting 20



### many citizen ' s health and quality of life. The 21



### Pittsburgh area is, in fact, ranked sixth in the 22

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### American Lung Association for most polluted 1



### cities. 2



### Carbon dioxide pollution in the air is 3



### linked to causing and worsening asthma, COPD, 4



### cardiovascular disease and diabetes. Electric 5



### power accounted for 39 percent of the total U.S. 6



### energy related carbon dioxide emissions in 2012. 7


### It is imperative that carbon dioxide emissions be 8



### reduced in order to impr ove the air quality and 9



### in turn, the health of Pennsylvania residents. 10



### Creating more wind energy in Pennsylvania 11


### will help clean up the local air because wind 12



### power does not create any water or air pollution 13



### of any kind and displaces energy production fro m 14


### coal and other fossil fuel generating plants. 15


### Beyond promoting clean air, wind power 16



### also promotes economic growth. New wind farms 17


### will create local jobs from construction and also 18



### for site maintenance. Furthermore, the land used 19



### for wind farm can sim ultaneously be used for 20



### agriculture providing farmers with another income 21



### stream. 22

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### Wind power also provides revenues to 1


### townships, counties, school districts in the form 2



### of property tax payments, impact payments, while 3



### supporting the rural economy through related 4



### economic activities. 5


### Pennsylvania already ranks 15th in the 6



### country for wind power capacity. There is plenty 7


### of an opportunity to build on that, create more 8



### jobs and a cleaner environment by introducing 9



### more wind power into Pennsylvania energy m ix. If 10



### we have this potential, we need to utilize it for 11



### the benefit of our health, environment and local 12



### economy. 13



### Pennsylvania has the chance to be the 14


### leader in wind power production and a leader in 15



### carbon emissions. Let ' s take action to approve 16



### our s tate and we support the EPA Clean Power 17



### Rule. 18



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Mr. Sheen. Any 19



### questions from the panel? No? Thank you, again. 20



### Our next two speakers are Dan Litchfield 21



### and Chelsea Holmes. And if you could spell your 22

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### name for the court reporter t hat would be 1



### helpful. 2



### MR. LITCHFIELD: All right, good 3



### afternoon, I ' m Dan Litchfield, 4



### L

- i

- t

- c

- h

- f

- i

- e

- l

- d. 5



### I ' m a Senior Project Developer with 6



### Iberdrola Renewables, that ' s I

- b

- e

- r

- d

- r

- o

- l

- a. 7


### We are the second largest renewable electricity 8



### generator in the United States. We are the 9



### second largest renewable electricity generator in 10



### the United States. 11


### We have invested roughly 12 billion 12



### dollars in renewable energy projects in the 13



### United States. Our parent company, Iberdrola SA, 14


### is the largest renewab le electricity provider in 15



### the world. 16



### Thank you for the opportunity to testify 17


### about why we think the Clean Power Plan can 18



### generate jobs and investment along with cleaner 19



### air and a more stable climate. 20



### Iberdrola Renewables can bring 21



### significant private investment to bear to help 22

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### cost effectively achieve the rule ' s objectives, 1


### reducing carbon dioxide emissions. 2



### The great example is our 600 million 3



### dollar investment in the Blue Creek Wind Farm in 4


### northwest Ohio. First and foremost, it provides 5



### emissions free electricity sufficient for 76,000 6



### average Ohio homes per year at a cost that 7



### allowed one of our customers, the Ohio State 8



### University, to save money in year one of their 9



### contract and stabilize their energy cost for 10



### decades to come. 11



### Secondly, Blue C reek created significant 12



### economic activity in Ohio. During the 13



### construction phase, 25 million dollars was spent 14


### locally, including, with local company that 15


### supplied everything from concrete and gravel to 16



### hard hats and hotel rooms. 665,000 labor hours 17



### wen t into construction, and over half were 18



### performed by Ohioans. 19



### In addition, our landowners now reap a 20



### new crop from their farm fields, electricity. It 21



### will earn over two million dollars per year in 22

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### royalties. Local schools have also experienced a 1



### windfal l. Four local school districts in the 2



### area now receive 1.8 million dollars per year. 3



### Blue Creek is now the largest single 4


### taxpayer in Van Wert County, and number two, in 5


### Paulding County, right behind another wind farm. 6



### This is a win wind. 7



### It has b een replicated in communities 8



### across the country, including here in 9



### Pennsylvania, where Iberdrola Renewables has 10



### installed four wind farms in hope to add two 11



### more. 12



### The four operating projects in Columbia, 13



### Somerset, Schuylskill and Fayette counties 14



### combin e 209 megawatts of electricity. Our 23 15


### turbine Casselman Project sits on a reclaimed 16



### coal mine. It ' s a symbol that our country has 17


### abundant energy in many forms. 18



### Personally, I feel fortunate to work in 19



### such a rewarding field as renewable energy. I 20



### chos e to get into the field in 2007 because I 21



### felt wind energy was the best possible technology 22

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### to tackle renewal challenges of clean air, 1


### climate change and the need for cost effective 2



### and abundant electricity. 3



### In the intervening seven years, our costs 4



### have come down significantly, and so has that of 5



### solar energy. We have demonstrated that 6



### renewable energy can help generate the 7


### electricity we need and do so cost effectively. 8



### We no longer need to pass off cost of 9



### fossil fuels to the environment and people 10



### d ownwind of smoke stacks. 11


### The electricity markets fail to 12



### adequately price the cost associated with 13



### greenhouse gas emissions. EPA must step in and 14


### implement these rules to bring us closer to a 15



### fair market. 16



### With a level playing field we can 17


### complete with anyone on the cost of electricity 18



### and we can generate enormous benefits for rural 19



### communities from Pennsylvania to the Pacific 20



### because the wind is everywhere. That ' s it. 21



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Ms. Holmes. 22

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### MS. HOLMES: My name is Chelsea Holmes. 1



### I am w orried about the environment. I will be 2



### reading for Elizabeth Kilough from Glenside, 3



### Pennsylvania. 4



### " I fully support the EPA ' s proposed 5


### standard. It should be implemented promptly and 6



### without being weakened in any way. By setting 7



### reasonable carbon pollut ion standards for power 8



### plants, the EPA will cut the primary driver of 9



### climate change, improve air quality, reduce the 10



### risk for super storms and give the United States 11


### credibility in seeking carbon emission reductions 12



### from other countries. " 13



### " I come to thi s issue from a unique 14


### perspective. I maintain an exclusively vegan 15


### diet. This means I eat absolutely no animals or 16



### animal products. No eggs, butter, milk or 17


### anything produce by an animal. " 18



### " At first glance, my diet would appear to 19



### have nothing to do wi th the growing problem of 20



### carbon dioxide in our atmosphere. However the 21



### processing, transporting, and storing of animal 22

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### meat and products is extremely energy intensive. 1


### It takes 11 times the energy to produce a calorie 2



### if animal protein as it does to pro duce a calorie 3



### of plant protein " 4



### " The University of Chicago researched 5



### diet ' s effect on carbon emissions and found that 6



### a vegan is responsible for the release of 7


### approximately 1.5 fewer tons of carbon dioxide 8



### into the atmosphere each year than a meat eate r. " 9



### " Cutting meat and dairy to shrink the 10



### carbon footprint of my diet is great. However, 11


### while I have the power to reduce my carbon 12



### footprint by eating plants, I am powerless to 13



### reduce the carbon footprint from power plants I 14


### rely on. That is why the EP A needs to act. " 15



### " I live very happily without meat and 16



### dairy. I cannot live happily without 17


### electricity. My family has voluntarily purchased 18



### a hundred percent clean electricity for our 19



### household for many years, but we can ' t do it 20



### alone. It ' s time for t he government to act. The 21



### democratically elected Congress give the 22

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### democratically President the authority to 1


### regulate emissions from power plants. The EPA 2



### must use this authority to implement the proposed 3



### emission standard as soon as possible without 4



### wat ering it down. Thank you. Elizabeth. " 5



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Our next two 6



### speakers, Paul

-- I ' m sorry about this

-- 7



### Pokrowka

-- Pokrowka and Kyle Brightville. 8



### Sorry for butchering your name. 9



### MR. POKROWKA: That ' s no problem. 10



### MS. ESHER: And Kyle Brightville? Go 11



### ahead and proceed. 12



### MR. POKROWKA: I ' ll spell my last name 13



### for you, it ' s P

- o

- k

- r

- o

- w

- k

- a. 14



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. 15


### MR. POKROWKA: All right. Hello, and 16



### thank you for the opportunity to come before you 17


### today. My name is Paul Pokrowka. I ' m speaking 18



### on behalf of Smart Transportation Division the 19



### labor union that represents railroad workers 20



### across the country. 21



### I serve as the Pennsylvania State 22

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### Legislative Director and Chairman. I ' m here 1


### today to convey our concerns with the EPA ' s 2



### propos ed Clean Power Plan. We are concerned and 3



### we care about this issue because of the impact 4


### this plan will have on our jobs and our future. 5


### There are dozens of freight railroads in 6



### Pennsylvania which employ thousands of people. 7


### These are not temporary jo bs, these are career 8



### jobs. These people, my coworkers, your 9



### neighbors ' precious careers are in jeopardy 10



### because of the hit taken on the coal industry. 11


### Nearly 40 percent of all freight railroad 12



### cars in America are coal cars. Coal has provided 13



### the revenue s needed to build and rebuild 14



### America ' s railroads. Coal continues to provide 15


### the money necessary to expand and maintain our 16



### rural rail infrastructure. 17



### America ' s railroads will spend 18



### approximately 25 billion dollars in 2014 to 19



### maintain and expand rail inf rastructure as well 20



### as hire 14,000 new employees. Twenty

- five 21



### percent of the freight rail industry ' s revenue 22

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### come from shipping of coal. Twenty percent of 1


### all freight rail jobs involve hauling coal. 2



### These are huge numbers and will have huge 3



### impacts on people ' s lives in the American 4


### economy. Preliminary estimates of the impact on 5


### jobs brought about with the EPA ' s proposed Clean 6



### Power Plan indicate the potential loss of 52,000 7


### permanent direct jobs by the year 2020 in the 8



### utility, rail and coal sectors due to power plant 9



### retirements. 10



### When you include the indirect job losses, 11


### the total increases to approximately 167,000 jobs 12



### lost. As I stated previously, these are not 13



### temporary jobs, these are not stepping stones, 14


### these are life changing careers. High skilled, 15


### high paying positions, and they are typically in 16



### rural communities without other opportunities for 17



### comparable employment. 18



### We, those who work in the effective 19



### sectors of the proposed Clean Power Plan would 20



### like to provide you with some recommendat ions and 21



### topics for consideration. We believe these would 22

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### enhance the power plan in a positive manner if 1



### agreed upon. 2



### Number one, the power plan should provide 3



### states with credit for prior CO2 reductions as an 4


### option towards meeting a reasonable national 5


### target for reducing CO2 emissions from the 6



### electric power sector. 7



### Number two, EPA ' s compliance time table 8



### is unrealistic and unachievable. Even with the 9



### multiyear compliance average toward the interim 10



### and final targets. The initial reduction program 11



### sh ould be delayed by several years to allow 12



### states and affected sources adequate time to 13



### prepare and submit state plans, and to structure 14


### and implement compliance strategies in the most 15



### flexible least cost manner. 16



### Number three, EPA ' s proposal for major 17



### expa nses of state energy efficiency and renewable 18



### energy programs interfere with the traditional 19



### state authority and energy planning, and appear 20



### to be well beyond the agency ' s authority under 21



### the Clean Air Act. 22

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### The supreme court ' s recent decision on 1



### the green house gas permitting rule contains a 2



### strong cautionary language that the court will 3



### take a skeptical view of in overly expansive 4


### interpretation of EPA ' s authority to regulate 5



### greenhouse gases. 6



### Number four, we believe that the Agency 7



### should reconsider the proposed rule ' s building 8



### block approach to set state CO2 emissions 9



### reduction goals based on end use energy 10



### efficiency, increased use of natural gas and 11



### renewable energy, as well as other beyond the 12



### fence emission reduction strategies. 13



### Rather, we urge the EPA to focus the rule 14


### only on options for reducing emissions within the 15


### plant fence line. The proposed six percent 16



### efficiency improvement for existing coal units is 17


### a step in the right direction, but we are 18



### doubtful that all these investments would ever b e 19



### made, given the rule ' s negative impact on coal 20



### generation and new source review permitting. 21



### Finally, we believe that the rule is 22

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### premature, since we do not know the extent to 1


### which other nations, particularly large 2



### developing countries, will be willing to commit 3



### to a truly global program of greenhouse gas 4



### reductions. 5


### We, America, cannot go at it alone and 6



### expect that our actions will have any meaningful 7


### climate impact in a world economy that is using 8



### more coal and other fossil fuels every day. 9



### Developi ng nations already emit more CO2 10



### than advanced industrial nations and Department 11


### of Energy projects that their share of global 12



### emissions will grow steadily and continue to do 13



### so regardless of what the United States decides 14



### to do. Thank you. 15



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Mr. Pokrowka. 16



### MR. POKROWKA: Any questions? 17


### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Kyle Brightville, 18



### John Kissel. Our next two speakers are Kyle 19



### Brightville and John Kissel. 20



### MR. KISSEL: I ' m John Kissel. 21



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. And if Kyle 22

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### doesn ' t come up, let ' s bring Shanelle Smith. 1


### Thank you, Ms. Smith. 2



### Take your time and when you ' re 3



### comfortable, Mr. Kissel, if you could begin. 4


### MR. KISSEL: My name is John Kissel, 5



### K

- i

- s

- s

- e

- l. I ' m a retired physician from St. 6



### Louis, Missouri. I bring you greets from the 7



### Show

- Me state. I am a graduate of Harvard 8



### Medical School, board certified in internal 9



### medicine, a fellow of the American College of 10



### Physicians, and I really appreciate the 11


### opportunity to speak to you. 12



### To me, this is what American democracy is 13



### all about. The reason I ' m here is that I have 14


### children and grandchildren and friends and 15



### relatives that live in the St. Louis area, and we 16



### need your help. 17


### Our utility and electricity provider is 18



### Ameren Missouri, one of the largest electric 19



### utilities in the country, and number five on the 20



### dirty dozen list for utility polluters. They 21



### generate almost 80 percent of our electricity by 22

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### burning coal in four large coal plants in the St. 1


### Louis area, only one of which has any modern 2



### pollution control devices, an y significant 3



### extent. 4


### As you might imagine, we therefore, have 5



### some

-- there are statistics, I ' m sure you ' ve 6



### heard many times about asthma and cardiovascular 7


### disease and other related public health problems 8



### generated from burning coal. 9



### Now, I was shocked , myself, some years 10



### ago to learn that St. Louis was declared the 11


### number one city that year for childhood asthma 12



### deaths. Now, you might think that Missouri is a 13



### state where there are a lot of ultra 14


### conservatives who just are climate change 15



### deniers, but th at ' s not really the case. And I 16



### have a couple of lines of evidence to that. 17


### One is that I brought with me almost 18



### 1,100 letters from citizens all around the state 19



### of Missouri, mostly Sierra Club members, 20



### supporting the carbon rule and asking for a 21



### strong carbon rule. 22

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### The other is that about five years ago 1


### over 60 percent of Missouri voters voted for a 2



### proposition that called for modest but 3



### significant investments by our utilities in 4


### renewable energy sources for generating 5


### electricity. 6



### The problem is, sin ce that time, the 7


### Missouri legislature has ignored and basically 8



### gutted the intent of that rule. 9



### So we have a problem because we have no 10



### leadership for our utility and we have no 11


### leadership from our state government. And so we 12



### need the EPA to be strong for us. 13



### Excuse me. I don ' t begin to understand 14


### the formula used for determining state goals, but 15


### the national goal is for a 30 percent reduction 16



### in carbon dioxide emissions, and the goal for 17


### Missouri is 21 percent. 18



### Now, it seems counterintuitive th at a 19



### state and utility that have been historical 20



### laggards would be given a more or less free pass 21



### on the standards. We need stronger standards for 22

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### Missouri, at least. They ' re achievable and 1



### they ' re doable, and the fact of the matter is, 2



### you ' ll get the sa me amount of bluster and whining 3



### regardless of whether you propose a strong 4



### standard or a weak one. 5


### The simple fact of the matter is that 6



### it ' s going to be much better to make some hard 7


### choices now than to leave our grandchildren ' s 8



### children with an impossi ble situation. Thanks 9



### very much. 10



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Ms. Smith? Mr. 11


### Kissel, if you could stay seated while Ms. 12



### Smith

-- thank you. Thank you. 13



### MS. SMITH: My name is Shanelle Smith, 14



### S

- h

- a

- n

- e

- l

- l

- e, and I ' m the Director of Emerald 15



### Cities Clevela nd. In Cleveland and other 16



### metropolitan regions, Emerald Cities 17


### Collaborative is transforming the energy 18



### efficiency sector in a high roadway by 19



### retrofitting building stock, trading high wage 20



### jobs and revitalizing local economies. 21



### Thank you for the opport unity to testify 22

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### today in support of EPA ' s Clean Power Plan. The 1


### recently proposed 111(d) regulations to cut 2



### carbon emissions from existing power plants is a 3



### catalyst many communities need to address carbon 4


### pollution and high unemployment. 5


### While fightin g to keep Ohio ' s renewable 6



### portfolio standards, a state senator expressed 7


### our support of the freeze by saying we all 8



### breathe the same air. We do not. 9



### The truth is that 68 percent of African 10



### Americans live within 30 miles of coal fire 11


### plants. Growing up near a petro chemical plant 12



### is most likely the very reason why I woke up with 13



### a lump in my neck at the age of 26. And before I 14


### turned 30, this May, I had two fights of cancer 15


### and a bone marrow transplant, all likely linked 16



### to the prolonged exposure to air pollution. 17


### By reducing carbon emissions from the 18



### existing power plants we can entrust a 19



### disproportionate impact of carbon pollution that 20



### negatively affects the health and educational 21



### outcomes, as well as the economic well

- being of 22

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### communities of color. 1


### Although our communities are highly 2



### affected, far often disadvantaged communities are 3



### left out of climate mitigation and forced to wait 4



### on a solution. Ohio ' s Governor John Kasich and 5


### the Republican led General Assembly is studying 6



### our state ' s renewable po rtfolio standard. This 7


### study forces communities and others to wait, 8



### continue to breathe air pollutants and to be left 9



### out of the merging clean energy economy that is 10



### booming in other states. 11



### While we wait on our state to lead, 12



### Cleveland ' s aging housing s tock and unfortunate 13



### distinction of ranking in the top tier of the 14


### poorest cities for poverty are sitting ducks for 15


### more intense super storms and another polar 16



### vortex. 17



### The Clean Power Plan allows us to prepare 18



### for climate change pressure, lessen our energ y 19



### demand and foster social cohesion. The 111(d) 20



### rules supports Emerald Cities ' goal to increase 21



### equity by increasing energy efficiency and 22

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### expanding job opportunities on the clean energy 1



### sector. 2



### These rules set the stage for energy 3



### diversity. If we don ' t choose the right mix or 4


### generation using diverse fuels, energy 5


### efficiency, and demand side management to meet 6



### the carbon reduction goals, we would do a 7


### tremendous disservice to my generation and 8



### generations to come. 9



### Energy diversity is directly connecte d to 10



### job creation, consumer protection and economic 11


### growth. As a rule for ever million dollars 12



### invested in energy efficiency, 21 direct and 13



### indirect jobs are created, needing retrofit jobs, 14


### including electricians, heating and air 15


### conditioning installers, carpenters and many 16



### more. These are jobs that pay family sustaining 17



### wages, can ' t be outsourced and offer career 18



### pathways through union apprenticeship programs. 19



### The 111(d) regulations gives us the 20



### nation ' s first opportunity to explore the full 21



### range of th e triple bottom line in energy, equity 22

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### and the environment. EPA, thank you for allowing 1


### me to sensify, but most importantly, thank you 2



### for your leadership and willingness to act on 3



### climate. Thank you. 4



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Our next speakers 5



### are Chris topher Seymour and Phil Van Dam. 6



### MR. SEYMOUR: Hello. Thank you for 7


### having me. My name is Christopher Seymour. I ' m 8



### from the area. I ' m here today as a concerned 9



### parent and homeowner to show my support for 10



### purposeful action on climate change and dangero us 11


### carbon pollution fueling it. 12



### Climate change is a reality, scientific 13



### evidence showing human activity is the primary 14


### cause and rapid change in the climate is 15


### overwhelming. Both scientists and economists are 16



### documenting the effects in forecasting futu re 17


### impacts that will result due to an increase in 18



### carbon pollution. 19



### We have a responsibility as parents to 20



### protect the health and safety of our children, 21



### and as property owners to preserve our land and 22

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### homes for future prosperity. 1



### That ' s why we are oblig ated to protect 2



### our children and land from the dangerous carbon 3



### pollution emitting from the nation ' s power 4



### plants. 5


### The largest contributor of carbon 6



### pollution in our country, fueling climate change, 7


### comes from power plants. Unlike other regulated 8



### but dan gerous chemicals such as mercury and 9



### arsenic, power plants are currently allowed to 10



### dump unlimited amounts of carbon pollution into 11


### the air. In addition to climate change, carbon 12



### pollution causes health issues for many 13



### Americans, including asthma attacks in children. 14


### We have a right as American citizens not 15


### only to choose to live a healthy lifestyle that 16



### but also be protected from extreme weather events 17


### caused by carbon pollution. I saw this 18



### firsthand, the destruction of Carnegie, 19



### Pennsylvania, where I was living in 2004. This 20



### is the year that both Hurricane Frances and 21



### Hurricane Ivan moved through the area ten days 22

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### apart. 1



### This historic flooding destroyed the 2



### downtown business district and many homes were 3



### severely damaged. The town has never fully 4



### rec overed, and additional flooding events 5



### occurred there in 2010, 2013 and 2014, because 6



### the infrastructure is incapable of addressing 7


### storm water during heavy rain events. 8



### Although this is a local example, many 9



### other extreme weather events have become a bur den 10



### to others living across the country, including 11


### Hurricane Katrina, Super Storm Sandy and a 12



### current California drought. 13



### On a personal note, my wife ' s parent ' s 14


### condo in nearby Laural Mountains, where we spend 15


### our time skiing in the winters. My child w ill 16



### learn to ski there on the local hill, and the ski 17


### resort operation struggles to turn a profit every 18



### winter due to the warming climate. 19



### Unfortunately, climate change is aggressively 20



### threatening the local ski industry and our 21



### recreational heritage. 22

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### My parents own a beach condo on the east 1


### coast of Florida. We go there to vacation and 2



### it ' s where my little boy will learn to swim and 3



### fish. However, the property is threatened by 4


### global sea level rise caused by a warming 5


### climate. To complicate matters, oc ean 6



### acidification due to carbon pollution is wiping 7


### out coral reefs and decimating local fisheries. 8



### These are just some of my personal 9



### experiences with climate change and I feel my 10



### child will have war stories to tell in the 11



### future. So we have an opportun ity to cut power 12



### plant carbon pollution by 30 percent of 2005 13



### levels by the year 2030. This is an important 14


### first step we must take to protect our families 15


### and our heritage. This is an important first 16



### step we must take

-- excuse me

-- cutting carbon 17



### poll ution emitted by power plants will provide 18



### additional benefits to the economy. 19



### First, we will promote investments and 20



### energy efficiency in a renewable energy 21



### technologies. Over the past decade, we ' ve seen 22

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### new advances in automobile technology, thanks t o 1


### government regulations on carbon based fuel 2



### economy. Higher cost for gasoline also promoted 3



### investment in more efficient automobile 4



### technology and there ' s a strong likelihood that 5


### carbon pollution controls will result in both the 6



### advancement of renewabl e energy technologies and 7


### also the change in consumer behavior to seek 8



### energy efficient products. 9



### A second benefit to the economy is 10



### mitigating taxpayer risk for the cost of extreme 11


### weather impacts. The damage from extreme weather 12



### is estimated to have ex ceeded 200 billion dollars 13



### in the last three years alone. The level of 14


### burden is unsustainable now and we will only 15



### increase the burden on our children ' s future 16



### unless we act now to reduce carbon pollution in a 17


### meaningful way. 18



### I strongly support the Envi ronmental 19



### Protection Agency, which is using its authority 20



### under the clean air act, reaffirmed by the 21



### supreme court, to protect my family ' s safety, 22

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### health and prosperity from the dangerous carbon 1


### pollution from our nation ' s power plants. 2



### The consequences o f inaction will only 3



### grow worse over time. As a world leader, the 4



### United States of America must show that we will 5


### stand up for what is right for our citizens and 6



### take meaningful action on reducing carbon 7


### pollution. Thank you. 8



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Mr. Seymour. Mr. 9



### Van Damme? 10



### MR. VAN DAMME: I ' m Pastor Philip Van 11



### Damme from Martin ' s Ferry, Ohio, about an hour 12



### and a quarter from here. The people there 13



### lovingly refer to it as MF. 14


### My father was a Baptist pastor in the 15



### same area back in the last ' 60s , a nd at that time 16



### the people believed that dirty air meant jobs. 17



### Now, I ' m living back in that area and I am 18



### burying people because of asthma and lung cancer. 19



### How we treat creation shows how we feel 20



### about the creator, and how we treat each other is 21



### our resp onsibility. In the Lutheran prospective, 22

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### if we fail to act to save the lives of others, we 1


### are guilty of murder. 2



### I was born in Nina, Wisconsin. It ' s 3



### about an hour from Green Bay. And when I was 4



### born there, there ' s a type of tree that lives 5



### around her e called Pawpaw. I don ' t know if 6



### you ' re familiar with those. They would not grow 7



### in Nina because it was too cold at that time. 8



### Now, you can grow Pawpaw trees in Nina. 9



### When I lived in Martin ' s Ferry in the 10



### ' 60s , I was told that one had to wait until the 11


### first frost to pick Pawpaws. Now, by the first 12



### frost, they have rotten. They ' ve fallen and 13



### rotten a month earlier. 14


### People talk about jobs being lost because 15


### of more regulations. However, there ' s

-- 16



### whenever there ' s been a shift in the economy, 17



### there ' s been dislocation. Once slavery ended, 18



### there was dislocation. When people shift from 19



### growing drugs like opium or tobacco, there is 20



### economic dislocation. 21



### There is still a lot of coal being mined 22

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### in this area. However, there are actually very 1



### few people doing the mining. I believe it ' s 2



### something like one

- twentieth the number of people 3



### who are actually involved in it compared to the 4



### ' 60s , bringing out the same amount of coal. So 5


### the number of jobs being lost is much smaller 6



### than it would have been. 7



### And I believe also there are some areas 8



### that can be focused on of reducing emissions that 9



### do not benefit the economy. In our area there is 10



### a lot of fracking going on, and some of it is for 11


### oil and they torch the natural gas. So it ' s just 12



### being burned off wi thout it benefitting anybody. 13



### I know there are some underground coal 14


### fires in this state. There are many in China. 15


### And once again, underground coal fires are 16



### something that benefit nobody, that attacking 17


### that would help further reduce CO2 emissions. 18



### We ll, I am personally much more for a 19



### carbon tax that would simply allow the market to 20



### solve the problem. I believe this is a good 21



### step, a small step, but a good step. 22

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### Many people talk about the consequence of 1


### ocean level rise. They talk about the 2



### conse quences on Florida and Louisiana, and low 3



### lying cities like D.C. or San Francisco. They 4


### talk about millions of people being displaced. I 5



### am personally more concerned about when Kansas 6



### cannot grow wheat and millions of people go 7



### hungry. Thank you. 8



### MS. ESHER: Thank you both for coming 9



### today. Thank you very much. 10



### Our next speakers are Karen Melton and 11



### Doris Marlin. Karen Melton and Doris Marlin? 12



### Or how about Russell Golman. Thank you, 13



### Mr. Golman. And when you ' re comfortable and 14



### ready to speak, if you could spell your name, 15



### that would be helpful for our court reporter. 16



### MS. MELTON: My name Karen, with a K, 17



### Melton, M

- e

- l

- t

- o

- n, and I am reading testimony 18



### today for Dr. Dan Wolk, W

- o

- l

- k. 19



### " My testimony which I am submitting today 20



### is in enthusiasti c support for the EPA ' s Clean 21



### Power Plan. I am a family physician practicing 22

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### in Delaware County, Pennsylvania. " 1



### " I ' ve been concerned about climate change 2



### ever since Barry Commoner made the greenhouse 3



### effect a talking point in his 1979 presidential 4



### camp aign. At the time I was in medical school at 5



### Tufts in Boston. " 6



### " Since that time the decades have marked 7


### successful initiatives to curtail pollution from 8



### power plants, from acid rain to mercury, which 9



### we ' re having a massive impact on public health 10



### and the health of our forests. " 11



### " Meanwhile, the coal industry has 12



### continued to treat the air we breathe as an open 13



### sewer for the disposal of fine particulates, 14


### which cause asthma, COPD, pulmonary fibrosis and 15


### cancer, and CO2, contributing one

- third of our 16



### nation ' s annual carbon emissions. The latter 17


### threatens the livability of our planet and the 18



### survival of generations yet unborn. " 19



### " According to the American Lung 20



### Associations 2011 report, Toxic Air, over 386,000 21



### tons of 84 separate hazardous air pollutants spew 22

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### from over 400 coal burning plants in 46 states. 1



### This is more than the emissions of the next three 2



### top polluting industries combined. " 3



### " I am very concerned about these 4


### emissions from coal fired power plants which 5



### cause tens of thousands of deaths and man y more 6



### disabilities every year nationwide. While I 7


### cannot tell whether my patient with asthma or 8



### COPD is sick because of pollution from coal, the 9



### epidemiology tells me that it is a major 10



### contributing factor, if not the primary 11


### ideology. " 12



### " By the time the y see me sometimes 13



### struggling for every breath, there is no way to 14


### undo the damage. Meanwhile the billions of 15


### dollars in health care costs are borne by the 16



### victims, their families and our society. " 17



### " Furthermore, coal fired power plants 18



### leave behind mou ntains of toxic ash which 19



### threaten the safety of our drinking water and 20



### poison the air of neighboring communities. " 21



### " With all due respect to the workers who 22

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### dedicate their lives to mining coal, the 1


### industry ' s arguments for protecting their 2



### industry are to me, reminiscent of the tobacco 3



### industry ' s arguments against legislation to 4


### restrict tobacco sales and smoking. " 5



### " The evidence from my colleagues in 6



### public health is clear. Coal is a public health 7


### threat and we should shift our energy production 8



### to clean er, safer alternatives as soon as 9



### possible. Energy experts tell us this is 10



### technically feasible in less than a decade. " 11



### " I applaud EPA ' s proposal to leave 12



### implementation of the Clean Power Plan to 13



### individual states which could apply a carbon tax 14



### as part of the solution. And I recommend that 15


### you add a carbon tax to the list of possible 16



### implementation options in the rule. " 17



### " Economists tell us that a revenue 18



### neutral fee or a tax on carbon would reduce 19



### carbon emissions and with the, toxic emissions by 20



### bu rning coal without additional complex 21



### regulation. " 22

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### " A recent study by REMI, which stands for 1


### Regional Economic Models, Inc. reports that such 2



### a measure implemented nationally would prevent a 3



### quarter of a million deaths from respiratory 4



### disease in the firs t 20 years. British Columbia, 5


### Canada has set such an example resulting in lower 6



### fossil fuel consumption, improved air quality and 7


### a boost to their economy. " 8



### " A great strength of a carbon tax, is 9



### that it is not limited to power plant emissions. 10



### In medici ne, if a patient is at risk for death or 11


### disability from a disease, the precautionary 12



### principle tells us to implement preventive 13



### measures for the sake of our public health, the 14



### Clean Power Plan is such a measure. " 15



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Ms. Melton. Mr. 16



### G olman? 17


### MR. GOLMAN: Thank you for allowing me 18



### the time to speak out in favor of the Clean Power 19



### Plan. My name is Russell Golman, G

- o

- l

- m

- a

- n. I 20



### live here in Pittsburgh in the neighborhood of 21



### Greenfield. I ' m a professor of social and 22

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### decision sciences a t Carnegie Mellon University. 1


### Pittsburgh is a wonderful community. It 2



### often shows up on lists of the most livable 3



### cities in America. I look forward to starting a 4


### family in this city and living here a long time. 5


### Unfortunately, air pollution makes 6



### Pitt sburgh a less healthy home than it has the 7


### potential to be. My neighbors, friends and 8



### family are all at greater risk for respiratory 9



### problems, even for cancer, because of air 10



### pollution that comes predominantly from coal 11


### fired power plants. 12



### Renewable ener gy and higher energy 13



### efficiency standards offer us an opportunity to 14


### live in a cleaner city and have a higher quality 15



### of life. I can ' t walk down Penn Avenue in the 16



### strip district and buy cleaner air. Even or 17



### wonderful mayor, Mayor Peduto, can ' t solve thi s 18



### problem on his own because coal plants aren ' t 19



### located right here in the city of Pittsburgh, 20



### although their pollution is. 21



### We need the states, coordinated by the 22

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### EPA at the federal level to act. The EPA ' s Clean 1


### Power Plan is a shining example of governme nt by 2



### the people, for the people at its best. 3



### There are entrenched special interests 4


### that profit from this status quo. Selling 5


### electricity produced by dirty coal without paying 6



### for the negative externality they impose on 7



### everyone else. 8



### But our governmen t will not be bought off 9



### by these special interests. It serves us all. 10



### All Americans will be able to breathe a little 11


### easier because of the Clean Power Plan. We may 12



### slow the pace of climate change and leave a more 13



### hospitable planet to our children becau se of the 14


### Clean Power Plan. And by investing in renewable 15


### energy and energy efficiency technologies, we may 16



### stipulate further innovation in these fields and 17



### grow a clean energy economy because of the Clean 18



### Power Plan. 19



### I am proud of my government today. I am 20



### proud to speak out in full support of EPA ' s Clean 21



### Power Plan. Thank you. 22

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### MS. ESHER: Thank you both for speaking 1



### today. Thanks very much. 2



### Our next two speakers, Ron Solentana and 3



### Stan Kabala. So Mr. Solentana, did I get that 4


### right? 5



### MR. SOLENTAN A: Solentana, yeah. 6



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. 7



### MR. SOLENTANA: Good afternoon. My name 8



### is Ron Solentana and I ' m here on behalf of the 9



### Pennsylvania Solar Energy Industry ' s Association, 10



### PASEIA, and Mid

- Atlantic Solar Energy ' s 11



### Association, MSEA. PASEIA is a division of MSEA, 12



### which it includes Pennsylvania, New Jersey and 13



### Delaware. I ' m also here representing National 14



### Solar Energy Industry ' s Association, SEIA, the 15


### solar industry ' s leading trade association 16



### representing over 1,100 solar companies 17



### throughout th e industry from developers and 18



### manufacturers to installers. 19



### I would like to thank the members 20



### assembled here, the Environmental Protection 21



### Agency, for providing this forum to elicit 22

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### feedback on proposed 111(d) rule and applaud the 1



### EPA for their hard work and diligence in crafting 2



### this immensely important regulation. 3



### SEIA, MSEA and PASEIA supports 111(d) and 4


### its support of an approach that allows states to 5


### take advantage of solar as part of a diverse 6



### compliance portfolio. Additionally, we are very 7



### pleased to have a solar and other outside of the 8



### fence measures included in the definition of the 9



### best system of emissions reduction, BSER, as we 10



### believe solar has a large role to play as a 11


### competitive priced CO2 offset in helping states 12



### reach compliance. 13



### In 2 014, alone, solar is expected to 14


### reach to generate over 20,000 gigawatt hours, 15


### enough to offset 13.8 million metric tons of CO2 16



### in 2014. 17



### Because of this and other avoided 18



### pollutants, solar avoids many of the health 19



### issues caused by fossil fuels emissions, 20



### including bronchitis, asthma, heart disease, 21



### water pollution, land degradation and climate 22

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### change. Solar in Pennsylvania already offsets 1


### over 175 metric tons of CO2 a year. 2



### The potential solar energy to offset even 3



### more CO2 is immense under 111(d), prov ided that 4


### the policies are in the right place and in 5


### addition to being in

-- and that ' s a CO2 offset 6



### for Pennsylvania and other states. Solar energy 7


### has experienced plumbing costs that only get 8



### lower, making solar energy an attractive 9



### compliance method. 10



### Nationally, the average price of 11



### residential PV installation cost has declined 12



### nine percent in just the past year. Over the 13



### past eight years has declined 67 percent. 14


### Solar falling cost and capacity for huge 15


### CO2 reduction and falling costs make an 16



### attra ctive component of a diverse plan, but the 17



### benefits don ' t stop here. SEIA, MSEA and PASEIA 18



### find that the solar has the potential for 19



### numerous other benefits outside of 111(d) 20



### compliance. 21



### For instance, solar helps reduce water 22

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### consumption in comparison t o additional fossil 1



### fuel sources. Solar reduces emissions of acid 2



### gasses and air toxins and help attain, for 3



### example, ambient air quality standards for the 4


### ozone, helping states meet their clean air act 5


### requirements. 6



### Due to the wide variety of solar 7



### tec hnology, solar is a perfect fit for every 8



### state and can be installed rapidly, a key piece 9



### to meeting the compliance deadlines. 10



### Right here in Pennsylvania, the solar 11


### industry has consisted of several thousands of 12



### employees of several hundreds of companies in 13



### recent years. These companies have been very 14



### level

-- have been at every level of the solar 15


### supply chain representing manufacturers, 16



### contractors, project developers and engineers. 17


### And even though the solar installation slowed 18



### down in Pennsylvania over the last few years, 19



### there are many more highly trained workers than 20



### are currently working in the solar industry in 21



### Pennsylvania, and they could easily gear up under 22

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### the EPA BSER plan. 1


### According to the solar foundation

-- 2



### solar job census, 2013, the sola r working force 3



### has an increase by 20 percent since 2012. This 4


### growing trend of solar jobs, coupled with EPA ' s 5


### 111(d) rule proposed ruling will clearly 6



### invigorate the strong economic impact in 7


### Pennsylvania due to the solar capacity of CO2 8



### reduction in fal ling prices, job creation and 9



### more is why we believe that solar energy is 10



### critical to a strong and diverse 111(d) 11


### compliance plan. 12



### With that being said, there is more that 13



### the EPA can do, even though SEIA, MSEA and PASEIA 14



### supports the 111(d) proposal, we believe that 15


### there are certain areas that can be strengthened 16



### in respect to solar, specifically, building block 17


### three. And building block three on renewable 18



### energy the, BSER, is based on incomplete data and 19



### does not reflect current solar capacity on marke t 20



### projections. Solar capacity in market 21



### projections are much higher than stated in the 22

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### proposed rule. Nevertheless, Pennsylvania can 1


### meet the 49 percent emissions reduction with 2



### renewable energy resources, including solar, 3



### wind, biomass and hydroelectric , while 4


### incorporating energy storage, energy pricing for 5


### solar in the way of tariffs and enhancing the 6



### state ' s current alternative energy portfolio 7


### standard, particularly the solar share 8



### requirement. 9



### All of these resources can meet the 10



### challenge through t he competitive market, forces 11


### that will produce results at no or little cost to 12



### consumers while cleaning up our air and providing 13



### good jobs with the real growth of solar. MSEA, 14


### PASEIA and SEIA would be very happy to help with 15



### that process to go through. Thank you. 16



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Mr. Kabala. 17


### MR. KABALA: My name is Stan Kabala and 18



### I ' m Associate Director of the Center for 19



### Environmental Research and Education at the Bayer 20



### School of Natural and Environmental Sciences at 21



### Duquesne University here i n Pittsburgh. 22

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### MS. ESHER: Could you spell your name, 1



### please, for the court reporter? 2



### MR. KABALA: Yes, it ' s K

- a

- b

- a

- l

- a. 3



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. 4



### MR. KABALA At Duquesne at the center, I 5


### teach environmental policy and management. In 6



### general, however, m y remarks here are being made 7


### in a personal capacity as much as a professional 8



### one. Aside from that professional capacity, I 9



### realize very clearly in the last few days, I ' m 10



### here because of my grandchildren, of whom there 11


### are now four, age two to six, and I think there 12



### are more on the way, and we can cross our fingers 13



### as grandparents at that prospect. 14


### And quite frankly, giving my professional 15


### interest, I would be negligent in my role as a 16



### grandparent if I weren ' t here today, and I 17


### sincerely state that. 18



### I ' m going to speak about many things 19



### quite briefly, but I would like to say for the 20



### record that any of the statements I make here in 21



### brief can, indeed, be fact checked for accuracy 22

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### and validity, although I skimmed past the 1


### sourcing in some of the details. But I do speak 2



### here today in support of the Clean Power Plan for 3



### existing power plants and the carbon pollution 4



### standard. 5


### I will say that these and other measures 6



### are inadequate as they stand. For example, the 7


### administrations have recently announced pr oposal 8



### to reduce carbon emissions by 30 percent by the 9



### year 2030 is altogether a very good first step. 10



### But we must recognize that worldwide scientific 11



### consensus tells us what must be done overall 12



### globally. The panel on climate change states and 13



### has state d for some time that carbon emissions 14



### have to be reduced by 80 percent by 2050. 80 by 15



### 2050, not 30 by 2030. 16



### By way of context, the State of 17


### California has had that goal, that same goal 18



### imbedded in its policies for some eight years now 19



### and quite early in t aking up the challenge back 20



### in 2006, 7 and so on. 21



### There ' s another way to put the limit that 22

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### we can live with in terms of global carbon 1



### emissions. Scientific estimates indicate that 2



### there are something like 2,800

-- I ' m rounding

-- 3



### gigatons of carb on fuel , coal, petroleum and 4


### natural gas that are identified and economically 5



### extractable. That means we know where they are 6



### and they can be taken out of the ground and sold 7


### for a profit. 8



### Unfortunately, to keep ourselves below 9



### the two degree Celsius warming tha t is a safe 10



### line, we can only burn 565 gigatons. In other 11



### words, 20 percent of what we can get out of the 12



### ground and sell, we can use. 80 percent has to 13



### stay in the ground. That ' s

-- it ' s not so much a 14


### geologic or economic reality, it ' s a climate and 15



### wa rming reality. 16



### But let me be clear. I ' m sure you ' ve 17


### heard many times, we really do have the 18



### technology at our disposal to meet the challenge 19



### of creating a safe, low carbon economy. And this 20



### continues down the path of affordability, 21



### increasing affordabi lity. 22

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### It starts with end use sufficiency across 1



### the board for all purposes. It ' s followed by 2



### renewables, wind, solar, concentrating thermal, 3



### distributed generation of high efficiency 4


### restored biological sequestration of carbon to 5



### pull some of the carbon back in from the 6



### atmosphere, and then in another sector 7


### altogether, high efficiency vehicles and better 8



### mass transportation systems, all of which pull 9



### down per capita energy use. 10



### Now, a transition like that is no short 11



### order

-- no small order. There will be costs. 12



### They will not be extreme, but they have to be 13



### borne fairly and I would like to address the 14


### question of ethics in all of this, and equity in 15


### all of this. These points need to be addressed 16



### and I think of them in three ways. 17



### There ' s the intergen erational issue, 18



### which I alluded to. We can ' t shut off to our 19



### grandchildren and their children the pain, the 20



### damage, and there will be both, and the cost of 21



### our 50 year

-- so far 50 year high energy, high 22

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### ride. 1



### I can ' t find an ethical or religious 2



### trad ition in the world that suggest that harming 3



### posterity is anything but a sin. But if we

-- 4


### and the cost here, indeed, qualify in that 5


### ethical category. We ' re having the good time, 6



### they ' ll pay for it. That is far from ethical. 7


### Employment is a separate c ategory of the 8



### equity issue. We cannot design a low carbon fuel 9



### economy and ignore the folks not working in the 10



### fossil fuel industries. The folks there 11


### producing the coal, oil and natural gas and those 12



### working in the industries that use those fuels 13



### must be retooled to work in renewables and 14


### efficiency. Their hardworking skills will be the 15



### heart of a new economy. 16



### In equity, today, very quickly, is to 17


### adjust the cost of bearing the price of higher 18



### fuels by introducing a cap and trade, cap and 19



### dividend sch eme. It spreads money around the 20



### economy very much like Alaska ' s oil dividend for 21



### Alaskans on an annual basis. 22

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### Finally, I would simply say that the U.S. 1


### is key to this in the world. When the U.S. 2



### doesn ' t lead there isn ' t any leadership in the 3



### world. Wh en the U.S. leads, nations follow. And 4


### this was true when we built the Montreal protocol 5


### to protect the ozone layer and it ' s true now, 6



### based on our capacity and our high emitting 7


### carbon footprint. Thank you very much. 8



### MS. ESHER: Thank you both. And we ' ll 9



### have one more speaker before we take a break. 10



### Doris Marlin. 11



### MS. MARLIN: Hello, good afternoon, and 12



### he just stole any thunder I was hoping to 13



### generate. 14


### My name is Doris Marlin. I ' m actually 15


### passing through from Maryland and serendipitous 16



### that th is is happening, because I am so honored 17


### to support the Clean Power Plan and this 18



### regulation as a very needed step forward for 19



### climate change solutions. 20



### I am a Unitarian Universalist with All 21



### Souls Church in Washington D.C. I ' ve been a 22

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### Unitarian for 30 ye ars. And so I am here as a 1


### member of the faith based community. 2



### Unitarians are traditionally quite active 3



### engaging in social justice issues and reason 4


### based decision making. 5


### However, on a separate note, in 1991 and 6



### 92, I was a graduate student in water resources 7


### management, and that is when I first heard of 8



### climate change and the increasing evidence in 9



### support of climate change. My son was three, and 10



### I had, oh, I don ' t know, eighteen nieces and 11



### nephews by then. 12



### And to see that 23 years later so little 13



### action has been taken in spite of the dire 14


### consequences for our children, for our future 15


### generations, for this grave intergenerational 16



### inequity that is looming. 17



### However, many people have already spoken 18



### from the science perspective, but what I ' d like 19



### to e mphasize is that climate change is a moral 20



### issue with

-- and that it has a growing faith 21



### community calling for action. The scientific 22

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### evidence is important, but what is also gaining 1


### awareness is the human injustice to those who 2



### have contributed the least to the existing 3



### problem. 4



### They are already the least of the problem 5


### and yet, they are currently being the most 6



### harmed. Already glacial lakes in the Himalayas, 7


### other highlands of the world are starting to fail 8



### and wiping out communities. That is already 9



### happening. That will only increase. 10



### There is, of course, severe weather 11


### already hurting those living in lowland areas. 12



### The evidence of decline to our life support 13



### systems is really undeniable, such as the effects 14


### to our freshwater systems, our fresh ai r, our 15


### food supply, lands, and I am talking globally, 16



### all resources that the human population cannot 17


### afford to have compromised. 18



### The risks, and let me emphasize the word, 19



### risk, because I

-- I ' m a risk management 20



### professional, by the way. The risks of cl imate 21



### change need to be addressed and managed now for 22

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### the best chance for future generations to exist 1


### without the unprecedented stress on the resources 2



### that is predicted, not to mention all of those 3



### associated with global security. 4



### This EPA action is a st ep towards 5



### Americans

-- it ' s a step towards showing 6



### Americans that we take the injustice of climate 7


### change seriously and it demonstrates to other 8



### nations that we will do our part as the heads of 9



### state build towards a fair ambitious and binding 10



### U.S. global climate agreement in 2015. 11



### If America acts, other nations will take 12



### note, and there is some evidence that they will 13



### act too, and we all need to act together to truly 14


### manage global climate change, a global solution 15


### that includes American leadership is requ ired. 16



### Thank you, EPA, for stepping up and getting us 17



### started. 18



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Ms. Marlin. And 19



### thank you to everybody who ' s come to participate 20



### today, whether you were a speaker or an audience 21



### member, we appreciate it. And well take a five 22

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### minut e break now. 1



### [Recess from 4:08 to 4:28 p.m.] 2



### MS. ESHER: Come up to the podium right 3



### up here, and what I ' d ask you to do is state and 4



### spell your name for the court reporter. 5


### MS. MILBURN: Okay. Stand or sit or

-- 6



### MS. ESHER: Oh, no, sit. Yeah, make 7



### y ourself comfortable, take a minute. 8



### MS. MILBURN: Jan Milburn, J

- a

- n, 9



### M

- i

- l

- b

- u

- r

- n. Ligonier, PA. 10



### My family has resided in western 11


### Pennsylvania for generations and my attachment to 12



### this area has only been marred by the air 13



### pollution and the illnesse s it causes. I 14


### strongly urge the EPA to take action to protect 15


### our air and health. According to a recent poll, 16



### more than two

- thirds of Americans agree. 17


### Pennsylvania ranks second worst in the 18



### nation in overall power plant pollution. As an 19



### important co

- b enefit of cutting carbon, particle 20



### pollution, nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide 21



### will be cut by more than 25 percent. 22

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### Coal fired power plants are responsible 1



### for about 90 percent of the power sector CO2. 2



### Clean Air Task Force estimates that they were 3



### res ponsible for 13,000 premature deaths, 20,000 4



### heart attacks and 9,700 additional 5


### hospitalizations in 2011. Those costs are not 6



### factored into coal ' s market price. 7


### Greene and Washington County spend over 8


### $300,000 from the health effects from dirty power 9



### pla nts. And the Air pollution is linked to 10



### diseases never before realized, diabetes, 11



### attention deficit disorder, autoimmune, 12



### Parkinson ' s , strokes and heart disease. 13



### Coal has only been affordable over the 14


### decades because we have been footing the brunt of 15



### the bill and healthcare costs. Doctors note that 16



### the carbon pollution cycle is dangerous for 17


### children. Carbon raises air temperatures, which 18



### worsens smog, which triggers asthma attacks and 19



### can permanently reduce lung function in children. 20



### Emergency room vi sits for respiratory 21



### problems can double on high ozone days and asthma 22

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### attacks increase by a third when ozone levels 1



### reach even half the legal level. 2



### Dr. Jacobson of Stanford identified for 3



### the first time the direct link between increased 4



### CO2 and increase s in mortality. For ever degree 5


### Celsius caused by carbon dioxide, the resulting 6



### air pollution leads annually to about a thousand 7


### additional deaths, and many more cases of 8



### respiratory illness, asthma and heart disease, 9



### including out of hospital arrest. 10



### Ca rbon dioxide increases mortality due 11


### to increased ozone, particles and carcinogens in 12



### the air. Increased water vapor due to carbon 13



### dioxide induced high temperature boosts ozone 14


### production. 15



### Where there was an increase in water 16



### vapor, particles are presen t and became more 17


### deadly as they swelled from the absorption of 18



### water. 19



### Ultimately, you inhale a greater 20



### abundance of harmful chemicals due to carbon 21



### dioxide and associated climate change. That link 22

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### appears quite solid, he said. 1


### Jacobson said the logica l next step is to 2



### reduce carbon dioxide, and that would reduce its 3



### warming effect and improve the health of the 4


### people in the United States. 5


### In Westmoreland County where I reside and 6



### much of western PA, we ' re in the state of 7



### non

- attainment for ozone, awar ded a grade of D by 8



### the American Lung Association for ozone 9



### pollution. We have a high incidence of asthmatic 10



### children and high rates of cancers and certain 11



### birth defects. 12



### The Post

- Gazette series on the 14

- county 13



### Pittsburgh area presented data on air poll ution 14


### and our risks. Almost every county exceeded 15


### national averages of heart disease and 16



### respiratory disease rates. Three counties exceed 17



### lung cancer rates. The total number of excess 18



### deaths from those three diseases is a ten percent 19



### higher mortality ra te than overall national 20



### rates. 21



### Based on the latest PM data Pittsburgh 22

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### still ranks as one of the worst urban areas of 1


### the country according to the Clean Air Task 2



### force. The air is not clean and it ' s killing 3



### people. 4


### The rate of asthma is far higher than 5


### average. Many school districts have 13 t o 17 6



### percent of children with asthma, and in one area 7


### district, 37 percent of the students are 8



### asthmatic. 9



### Pittsburgh has some of the worst levels 10



### of particle pollution than anywhere in the 11


### country, according to a r ecent news report. The 12



### Director of Clean Water Action said of the asthma 13



### statistics, this is a public health emergency. 14


### Numbers over 30 percent are off the chart high. 15


### Children who live in highly polluted 16



### communities are five times more likely to have 17



### c linically low lung function, less than 80 18



### percent of the lung function normal for their 19



### age. 20



### I have two asthmatic daughters. I know 21



### how severe asthma changes a child ' s life, 22

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### resulting in them missing important childhood 1


### events and interfering with their education, 2



### social life and emotional development. 3



### Then there is the economic burden on 4


### families. But do not change reliance on coal to 5


### reliance on gas, exchanging one dirty fossil fuel 6



### for another. Or nuclear energy with its own 7



### problems. 8



### Just one gas compressor station can add 9



### tons of pollutants to our air. Westmoreland 10



### County, alone, has 26 new compressor stations and 11


### processing plants since about ' 08 when fracking 12



### began. 13



### Methane produced by gas operations also 14


### contributes to ozone, and it is produ ced at far 15


### higher rates than originally thought, and it ' s a 16



### potent greenhouse gas, at least 20 to 30 times 17



### more potent than CO2. 18



### The Marcellus Shale is perfectly situated 19



### to worsen existing ozone and PM non

- attainment in 20



### the northeastern U.S., Joe Osborne Gas. There is 21



### only one solution to our energy problems and 22

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### that ' s renewables. I want my tax dollars to go 1


### towards a healthy future for my family and that 2



### can only happen with rigorous regulation of 3



### fossil fuels, and generous tax credits and other 4



### govern ment facilitation of the development of 5



### renewables. 6



### Industry has always complained of the 7


### inability to meet environmental standards. 8



### Improvement will only happen with government 9



### regulation, it will not happen voluntarily. 10



### Meanwhile, residents of Pennsy lvania pay 11


### for this industry with their health and their 12



### healthcare dollars. 13



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Ms. Milburn. 14



### MS. MILBURN: And then I have a copy to 15



### turn in, do I

-- 16



### MS. ESHER: Yeah. No, just go ahead and 17



### stay seated, we ' ll get it afterwards. 18



### MS . MILBURN: Okay, okay. 19



### MS. ESHER: And I didn ' t get a chance to 20



### tell you, there is a timer here for the five 21



### minutes. You were fine and well within it but I 22

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### just thought I ' d tell you that was going. 1



### And so Mr. Milburn? 2



### MR. MILBURN: Hi. I ' m Jack Mil burn, 3



### Ligonier, Pennsylvania. Prior to retirement, I 4


### spent over 30 years in the electric utility and 5


### independent power producer industries here in 6



### Pennsylvania. I am, therefore, very familiar 7


### with most aspects of that energy sector and I ' m 8



### quite knowledg eable about numerous power 9



### generation plants in Pennsylvania, Ohio and West 10



### Virginia. 11


### During that time period many 12



### technological changes occurred. For example, in 13



### the late ' 80s and ' 90 s, great strides were made 14


### in the development of equipment and system s that 15


### now capture high levels of particulates, SO2, NOx 16



### and mercury from the burning of coal. 17


### At that time coal and power generation 18



### industry advocates argued vociferously that this 19



### would destroy the industry and be cost 20



### prohibitive. Neither, of course, was true. 21



### What caused the development of these 22

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### technologies by private industry with some 1


### financial incentives from the federal government? 2



### Necessity. Truly the mother of invention. 3



### When clean air legislation passed, 4


### pollution reduction became necessa ry, and the 5


### energy industry realized that it could no longer 6



### stall the inevitable, and it made plans to invest 7


### billions of dollars in pollution control 8



### equipment. I strongly believe that if additional 9



### carbon reductions are mandated, the same will 10



### occur no w, with technology, again, providing cost 11


### effective solutions to our energy needs. 12



### Many older coal plants have, of course, 13



### shut down over the years and many more will close 14


### in the future. Generally, these plants are 15



### mid

- size in terms of power generation capacity, 16



### and they are well beyond their expected plant 17


### design life. The plant owners, therefore, chose 18



### to invest only the minimum amount of capital 19



### dollars in these plants for many years. 20



### Indeed, if you spoke with the plant work 21



### forces, in many cases th ey would tell you that 22

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### they believe the plant ' s safety has been 1


### compromised due to lack of adequate maintenance. 2



### While coal currently represents a 3



### significant portion of U.S. power generation, it 4



### cannot and will not last But for now it can and 5



### should be made cleaner with technology 6



### investment. 7


### Natural gas is not a so called bridge 8



### fill when you consider the entire life cycle 9



### pollution of that fossil fuel. And of course, in 10



### my opinion nuclear is clearly not a long term 11


### energy solution. 12



### Renewable energy is the only feasible 13



### answer to our long term energy needs and other 14


### nations are doing far better and moving towards 15


### this solution to climate change and associated 16



### environmental health problems. Norway, Sweden 17


### and even Germany, for example, have very high 18



### utilization of renewable energy for their power 19



### generation in terms of percentage of total 20



### required energy. 21



### Most Americans, frankly, are ashamed of 22

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### the lack of such energy leadership in the U.S. A 1


### few U.S. companies get it. One of the largest 2



### independen t power producers that has a huge fleet 3



### of coal fired plants is also investing heavily in 4


### existing and new solar and wind energy

-- wind 5


### plant capacity. Others are likely to do the 6



### same. 7


### I am sympathetic to the ultimate loss of 8



### coal producing jobs and I am no stranger to job 9



### losses as my colleagues and I dealt with several 10



### years of job losses due to mergers, acquisitions 11


### and corporate restructurings in the electric 12



### utility industry directly resulting from the 13



### deregulation of the power generation sector in 14


### that industry. 15



### So we all have to change and progress. 16



### Renewable forms of energy such as solar and wind 17


### power are increasingly creating jobs and have the 18



### potential to create many more. As fossil fuels 19



### become increasingly difficult and expensive to 20



### extra ct, renewables become more cost effective by 21



### comparison. 22

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### Large portions of certain energy grids, 1


### both in the U.S. and around the world are being 2



### supplied by renewables and has shifted his 3



### industries, who represents many stable and long 4


### term jobs for Penns ylvanians and other 5



### American ' s. 6



### The EPA should develop a rule that 7


### reduces carbon dioxide emissions, not only by 8



### forcing existing fossil fueled power plants who 9



### will make less, but also by encouraging to shift 10



### to renewable energy and development of eff ective 11


### energy efficiency programs. 12



### The EPA and DOE must continue to 13



### financially support the development of cost 14


### effective renewable forms of energy. Such 15


### support must be significant and at least equal to 16



### clean coal initiatives and all other forms of 17



### ener gy. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 18



### MS. ESHER: Thank you. Thank you both 19



### for coming today. 20



### So at this point we don ' t have any other 21



### speakers, so we ' ll take a break until someone 22

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### else arrives. 1



### [Recess from 4:37 to 4:30 p.m.] 2



### MS. ESHER: If you could spell your name 3



### for the court reporter, that would be great. And 4



### there ' s a five minute limit, so we have a timer 5



### here. You ' ll see when there ' s one minute left it 6



### will go onto yellow and then it will buzz when 7



### the five minutes are over. 8



### MS. LAN GELAND: Okay. Last name is 9



### Langeland, L

- a

- n

- g

- e

- l

- a

- n

- d, first name Heather, 10



### H

- e

- a

- t

- h

- e

- r. 11


### Good afternoon. My name is Heather 12



### Langeland and I fully support the EPA ' s proposed 13



### standard. It should be implemented promptly and 14


### without changes that water it down in any way. 15


### Setting limits on the carbon pollution 16



### causing climate change will spur investment and 17


### innovation and clean energy technologies to 18



### modernize and clean up power plants. 19



### New clean energy technologies that 20



### produce less carbon pollution will create a new 21



### generation of clean energy jobs. Since 1970, 22

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### every dollar invested in compliance with the 1


### Clean Air Act standards has yielded four to eight 2



### dollars in economic benefits. 3



### Each time an extreme weather event takes 4


### a community around the co untry, the economic 5


### impact can be devastating. 6



### From 2011 to 2013 alone, damages from 7



### extreme weather events have exceeded 200 billion 8



### dollars. While extreme weather events cost 9



### communities millions, inaction on climate change 10



### raises cost related to heal th care and hurts 11


### productivity through school and work days lost to 12



### hurricanes, blizzards, extreme heat and dirty 13



### air. 14


### The good news is that American ' s are 15


### ready for their leaders in government to take 16



### action. A February 2014 Sierra Club poll found 17



### that seven out of ten Americans favor setting 18



### limits on carbon pollution from power plants. 19



### The poll also found that 66 percent 20



### believe climate change is a serious problem and 21



### what the government to address it. Further, 22

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### Americans are willing to put their mone y where 1


### their mouth is. a poll conducted by researchers 2



### from Harvard and Yale found that the average 3


### American is willing to pay $162 a year for 4



### cleaner energy. 5


### We have an obligation to our children and 6



### future generations to address the primary cause 7



### of climate change, the unlimited dumping of 8



### carbon pollution into our air by power plants. 9



### The proposed carbon pollution standard will 10



### protect us from the health risks and other 11


### impacts of climate change. Please adopt the 12



### standard. Thank you. 13



### And at this point we have no other 14



### speakers, so we ' ll take a beak until they arrive. 15


### Thank you, again. 16



### [Recess from 4:38 to 4:40 p.] 17


### MS. ESHER: If you would move here with 18



### the mike, that would be great. And make yourself 19



### comfortable. So let me give you a little bit in 20



### what the rules are, what ' s going to happen. So 21



### there ' s a five minute limit on how long you can 22

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### talk. Here ' s the timer and we ' ll turn it on and 1


### when you have one minute left it will show yellow 2



### and then when your time is up it actually flashes 3



### and buzzes. So that will let you know that. 4



### I ' d ask you to spell your name for our 5



### court reporter so she can have your correct 6



### spelling. 7


### MR. SHEETS: And can I give my business 8



### cards to you and the court reporter? 9



### MS. ESHER: If you can do that, that w ill 10



### help with your name spelling. So that ' s great. 11



### Thank you. 12



### So take your time and when you ' re ready 13



### to go you can sit down and begin. Thank you very 14



### much. 15


### MR. SHEETS: Before I begin could I ask 16



### you a question? 17



### MS. ESHER: Yes. 18



### MR. SHEETS: Cou ld I just

-- and I know 19



### you ' ve done it and I apologize, I came in late. 20



### Could you introduce yourself? 21



### MS. ESHER: Oh, of course. I ' m Diana 22

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### Esher. I ' m the director of the Air Program in 1


### EPA Region 3. 2



### MR. ARNOLD: I ' m Dave Arnold, I ' m the 3



### Deputy Directo r of the Air Protection Division in 4


### Region 3. 5



### MR. GORDON: And I ' m Mike Gordon. I work 6



### in the Officer of Air Permits and Toxics in 7


### Region 3. 8



### MR. SHEETS: Thank you. 9



### MS. ESHER: Sure. 10



### MR. SHEETS: I ' ll get my notes out and I 11



### will

-- 12



### MS. ESHER: Ta ke your time. And thank 13



### you for coming, we appreciate it. 14



### MR. SHEETS: It ' s a good opportunity. 15



### I ' m going to stand up because I ' m a nervous 16



### speaker. I ' m going to start my own timer. 17


### MS. ESHER: Okay. If you go a little 18



### over it ' s really fine. 19



### MR. SH EETS: Oh, okay. 20



### MS. ESHER: Yes. Yes. I just wanted to 21



### tell you we got that, so that if it buzzed you 22

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### didn ' t

-- you know, you weren ' t surprised. 1



### MR. SHEETS: Okay, Okay. 2



### MS. ESHER: You ' ll be fine. 3



### MR. SHEETS: I know that it is like to 4



### try to keep people to a time, so I appreciate 5



### that. 6



### Well, good afternoon. Thank you for the 7


### opportunity to appear in front of you. My name 8



### is Nicky Sheets. I am representing two 9



### organizations. I work at Common Sense, a state 10



### college in New Jersey, where I am the Director 11



### for the Center for the Urban Environment. And 12



### I ' m also a member of the New Jersey Environmental 13



### Justice Alliance, and I ' m representing that 14


### organization also. 15



### And I have come all the way from New 16



### Jersey to testify for five minutes about the 17



### car bon rule. And I ' ve done that because I think 18



### there is a critical omission in the rule. 19



### Speaking from the environmental justice 20



### perspective, I ' m a member of the environmental 21



### justice community. I was really stunned as I 22

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### read the rule to find out that it does not 1


### address equity or environmental justice. 2



### And in fact, it not only does not address 3



### equity or environmental justice, but at times it 4


### actually runs away from the issue. For example, 5


### one part of the rule, it conceded that emissions, 6



### carbon dioxide emissions may actually increase at 7



### some locations. 8



### And of course, the problem with this is 9



### that along with the carbon dioxide, you ' ll have 10



### some toxic air pollutants probably increase, like 11


### particulate matter and its precursors. And this 12



### has the potent ial of causing real harm to the 13



### health of the residents living near those 14



### facilities. 15



### But the state doesn ' t address that. It 16



### punts on the issue totally. It says well the 17



### states can address that. It doesn ' t even say the 18



### states should address that. It s ays the states 19



### can address that. 20



### And from an environmental justice 21



### prospective, that ' s insufficient and 22

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### unacceptable. The rule should incorporate from 1


### environmental justice, you ' ll hear me say EJ a 2



### lot, from the EJ perspective, the rule should 3



### incorporat e at least three things to address 4


### environmental justice concerns and equity. 5


### The first and most important is there 6



### should be some mechanism in the rule that ensures 7


### we get reductions of carbon dioxide in and near 8



### vulnerable environmental justice commun ities that 9



### are over burdened with pollution. 10



### When I refer to environmental justice 11



### communities, I ' m talking about communities of 12



### color and low income communities. And again, the 13



### reasons we want those reductions of carbon 14


### dioxide is because you ' re also go ing to get 15


### reductions of greenhouse gas, toxic coal 16



### pollutants. And the ones we ' re worried the most 17


### about are particulate matter. 18



### And the rule is that does quantify, and 19



### when you get reduction of the coal pollutants, 20



### you get the co

- benefits to help. And the rule, 21



### in fact, does quantify those reductions, but it 22

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### doesn ' t tell where they ' re going to occur, and we 1



### need them to occur in the communities that need 2



### them the most. 3



### So think about this. You have a rule 4


### that is probably going to be the most importa nt 5


### rule, environmental rule ever promulgated by EPA, 6



### and it doesn ' t guarantee that we ' re going to get 7


### reductions in the neighborhoods that have the 8



### most pollution. There ' s something wrong with 9



### that. 10



### Okay, so that ' s one thing. Reductions of 11


### the EJ neig hborhoods. 12



### The second thing, I ' ve talked about coal 13



### pollutants. We also think the rule should 14


### intentionally maximize reduction of coal 15


### pollutants. So you get accidental reduction of 16



### coal pollutants, but in order to maximize your 17



### co

- benefits, your heal th benefits with that, you 18



### should maximize your reduction of coal 19



### pollutants. 20



### How do you do that? Well, by developing 21



### strategies that ensure you not only to 22

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### significant reductions of carbon dioxide, but 1



### that you ' re also going to get significant 2



### reduction s of coal pollutants. Particularly 3



### particulate matter and its precursors. 4


### Now, let me say this though. If the rule 5



### doesn ' t maximize those reductions of coal 6



### pollutants, we still want the reductions of 7



### carbon dioxide because of the accidental 8



### reductions you ' re going to give the coal 9



### pollutants and the co

- benefits that go with them. 10



### So that ' s two, ensure reductions, address 11


### coal pollutants intentionally. 12



### And the third is there needs to be some 13



### type of environmental justice analysis. There ' s 14



### no environm ental justice analysis in the rule. 15



### And at the very least the type of balances I ' m 16



### talking about is what facilities are in the near 17



### EJ communities, and where are reductions or 18



### increases

-- increases, you know, leave the hot 19



### spots

-- where are they going t o occur under the 20



### rule? And the rule basically again, it punts on 21



### this issue. The rule says we don ' t know where

-- 22

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### and we ' re talking about increases. We don ' t know 1


### where increases are going to occur. We can ' t 2



### tell, and doing the analysis, I think it sa ys 3



### impracticable. 4


### The problem is, there didn ' t seem to be 5


### any attempt to do this analysis. So again, 6



### insufficient, unacceptable from an environmental 7


### justice perspective. 8



### So let me close by saying this, the EPA 9



### has told the environmental justice communi ty 10



### consistently that environmental justice is a 11


### priority they need to get. But this rule is not 12



### at all consistent with that. 13



### The rule does not ensure reductions in EJ 14


### neighborhoods and maybe worse yet, and again, not 15


### ensuring those reductions is inconsis tent with 16



### saying that environmental justice is a priority 17


### within EPA. The rule does not do any 18



### environmental justice analyses. 19



### And again, not doing the environmental 20



### justice analyses is inconsistent with saying that 21



### EJ is a priority within EPA. The ru le uses an 22

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### averaging method and allows carbon trading, which 1


### again, neither of which ensure that you get 2



### reductions in the EJ neighborhoods and why we ' ve 3



### been opposed to carbon trading. 4


### Obviously, you ' ve put a lot of thought in 5


### ensuring the rule allows st ates to achieve 6



### reasonable reductions over a reasonable amount of 7


### time, but the EPA needs to put as much thought 8



### and as much effort into ensuring that the rule 9



### addresses equity and environmental justice 10



### concerns, and the environmental justice community 11



### is ready to help EPA think that through. Thank 12



### you. I took over five minutes. Thank you. 13



### MS. ESHER: Thank you, Mr. Sheets. 14



### MR. SHEETS: Okay. 15


### MS. ESHER: Thank you. for coming. It 16



### was such a long drive. We appreciate it. 17



### MR. SHEETS: Well, we tho ught

-- we think 18



### it ' s important to get the message out that we 19



### have concerns about the rule. 20



### MS. ESHER: So we ' ll break until 6:00 and 21



### then we ' ll open up again. 22

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### [Dinner recess from 5:00 to 6:00 p.m.] 1



### MR. HERBER: Are we ready? Good 2



### evening. It ' s 5:58 and we ' re going to open our 3



### evening session, our final session of our Public 4


### Hearing in Pittsburgh. 5


### My name is Mike Herber and I work in 6



### EPA ' s headquarters in North Carolina. And I ' ll 7


### be chairing this evening ' s session. 8



### Joining me on the panel are Dian a Esher 9



### with our EPA Regional Office in Philadelphia and 10



### Debra Dalcher with our EPA Air Headquarter ' s 11



### office in North Carolina. 12



### We ' re here today to listen to your 13



### comments on two proposed EPA rules to reduce 14


### carbon pollution from power plants. EPA 15



### announ ced both of these rules on June 2nd. 16



### I have a number of other procedural 17


### announcements, but given the small crowd, and in 18



### fact, we only have one speaker, I will forego 19



### most of those, But I will note that we do have a 20



### five minute speaking limit and we h ave a timer 21



### that Diana will start in just a minute. So you 22

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### may want to pay attention to that. 1


### When it flashes from green to yellow, it 2



### means you have one minute remaining. When it 3



### turns red, it will buzz and you ' ll hear the buzz. 4



### That means it ' s time t o stop. 5


### MR. CAREY: All right. 6



### MR. HERBER: So with that, why don ' t we 7



### get started and I ' d like to introduce our first 8



### speaker

-- they usually give me cards, I didn ' t 9



### get a card. Mike Carey, I ' m sorry. 10



### MR. CAREY: All right 11



### COURT REPORTER: Can you spell your name 12



### for the record? 13



### MR. CAREY: C

- a

- r

- e

- y. 14


### Good evening. My name is Mike Carey. I 15



### am Vice

- President of the Murray Energy 16



### Corporation. I ' m pleased to speak tonight on the 17


### U.S. EPA, Environmental Protection Agency ' s 18



### regulations. 19



### Murray Ene rgy is the largest privately 20



### held coal company in the United States. We are 21



### also the third largest coal company in terms of 22

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### production. We ' re the largest coal operator in 1


### Ohio, West Virginia. The second largest in 2



### Illinois, and we have operations in bot h Kentucky 3



### and Utah, and our barging operation is located 4


### here in Pennsylvania. 5


### Murray Energy is deeply concerned and 6



### vehemently opposed to these rules. Previous 7


### regulations from the EPA and other federal 8



### agencies have already imposed regulatory burdens 9



### on our industry and workers that we simply cannot 10



### sustain. 11


### Recent Obama Administrations have already 12



### done substantial damage to the coal fired fleet 13



### resolving in thousands of lost jobs across the 14


### United States, and irreversible economic damage 15



### to communit ies that rely on coal for their living 16



### and their tax base. 17



### It will further raise costs for natural 18



### gas and it will increase consumer and industrial 19



### electric rates. It is becoming increasingly 20



### clear that this proposal, especially combined 21



### with the EPA reg ulations, would pose very serious 22

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### threats to the reliability of the electric grid 1


### resulting in brown outs, rolling black outs and 2



### thereby threatening the public safety and health. 3



### The drastic electric power cost increases 4


### will be borne primarily by Americ an ' s on fixed 5


### incomes and at the lower economic levels, and by 6



### manufacturers who produce products for the global 7



### marketplace. 8



### Here are some of the key facts and 9



### figures associated with this proposal. EPA has 10



### always claimed that the industry over estimate s 11


### the cost of the regulations, giving examples from 12



### the 1970s . But what is lost to the public, and 13



### also to the media, is that the EPA ' s predictions 14


### on coal plant retirements just over the last five 15


### years, the EPA predicted that less than ten 16



### gigawatts of plant closures from the most recent 17


### regulations. We have already seen 338 coal fired 18



### units announce retirements, representing over 51 19



### gigawatts, five times the EPA estimate, and 20



### that ' s before these carbon regulations. 21



### The National Coal counsel on which I 22

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### serve, an official advisory body to the secretary 1


### of energy founded these closures and increasing 2



### the amounts on natural gas for generation are 3



### adversely impacting reliability, affordability 4



### and supply. 5



### One need look no further than last year ' s 6



### polar vor tex to understand the dangers that we 7


### are in if we continue down this path. In order 8



### to meet the demand during the vortex, 9



### American Electric Power relied on over 89 10



### percent of its coal fired capacity, which is 11


### slated to close in April 16th of 2015. 12



### T he southern company relied on 75 percent 13



### if its announced closures. After the vortex Nick 14



### Akins, the CEO of American Electric Power stated, 15



### " The weather events experienced this winter 16



### provide an early warning about the serious issues 17


### with electric supply and reliability. The 18



### country not just dodged a bullet, it dodged a 19



### cannonball. " 20



### EPA also needs to consider the impacts of 21



### requiring Americans on fixed incomes to pay even 22

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### more of their hard earned limited income towards 1


### their energy bills. Since 2001, c ost of middle 2



### income and lower income families on electricity 3



### have gone up over 27 percent. And in that same 4


### time period they have seen their after tax income 5



### fall 22 percent. 6



### These impacts are dangerous enough on 7


### their own, but for all of the job losses 8



### increased prices and decreased grid reliability, 9



### the proposal will not deliver any tangible 10



### climate, environmental or public health benefits. 11


### For example, CO2 in the atmosphere will be 12



### reduced by less than one percent under this 13



### proposal by 2050. The a verage temperature 14


### around the globe will be reduced by .016 degree 15



### Fahrenheit also by 2050. 16



### Not only will the proposal continue to 17


### harm American workers, families and our economy, 18



### it will provide no benefits in return, all pain 19



### for no gain is not a sensi ble public policy. 20



### I appreciate the opportunity to appear 21



### before you this evening. Thank you. 22

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### MR. HERBER: Thank you, Mr. Carey. 1


### Questions from the panelists? 2



### Okay, thank you so much for being here 3



### tonight, I appreciate it. 4


### MR. CAREY: Good evening . Thank you. 5



### MR. HERBER: Next I ' d like to call Harold 6



### Hoem and John Parker Blear. My apologies for any 7


### mispronunciation. Mr. Hoem. 8



### MR. HOEM: Yes, that ' s Hoem. 9



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. 10



### MR. HOEM: Let me get my thoughts 11



### together here for a moment. 12



### COURT REPORTER: Can you spell your name? 13



### MR. HOEM: Harold Hoem, H

- o

- e

- m. 14



### Go ahead and start? 15



### MR. HERBER: Yes, sir. 16



### MR. HOEM: My name is Harold Hoem and 17



### I ' ve come here from Montana as a member of 18



### Montana Elders for a Livable Tomorrow, or MELT, 19



### to speak in support of the EPA Clean Power Plan 20



### and carbon pollution standards. 21



### I ' m from a mining family. My grandfather 22

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### was from Cornwall and came to Butte, Montana in 1



### the 1880s . He died in his forties from lung 2



### disease associated with this life underg round, so 3



### I never got to know him. 4


### I, myself, worked in the underground 5


### copper mines of Butte right out of high school 6



### and before going to college. I also worked 7


### several years as a smoke jumper fighting wild 8



### land fires. Later in Naval Intelligence in Ja pan 9



### and Vietnam, and spent over 25 years as a 10



### commercial fisherman in the Pacific and in 11



### Alaska. 12



### Montana is no stranger to the finding and 13



### getting of mineral wealth, or to the super fun 14



### clean ups that usually seem to follow. We also 15



### have large coal depos its, but those who tap the 16



### billions of tons of coal reserves don ' t like to 17



### dwell on the billions more tons of harmful 18



### pollutions emitted from burning that coal, toxins 19



### like arsenic, and mercury, and sulfur, and 20



### climate changing CO2. 21



### One of our members is a former coal mine 22

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### manager who has said the main problem with the 1


### coal industry is the product is poison. Health 2



### impacts the young, the elderly the hardest. 3



### Heart disease, lung disease, cancer and strokes. 4



### Children are the canaries in the coal mine. Th ey 5


### breathe more air per pound, are active outdoors 6



### and are in the act of development. Asthma and 7


### other lung diseases are increasing. 8



### I ' ve seen acute asthma attacks as a rural 9



### area EMT, and believe me they can be life or 10



### death moments that you don ' t forge t. 11



### Montana ' s Colstrip Power Plant is one of 12



### the biggest carbon polluters in the nation and 13



### the biggest polluter in Montana. Most of the 14



### power goes out of state and the power that stays 15


### in the state is one of our most expensive 16



### regulated resources, almost twice the cost of 17



### wind. 18



### On the plus side, Montana has the second 19



### best wind resource. It ' s a little underutilized, 20



### but the second best wind resource in the country. 21



### It has great solar potential and it has a huge 22

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### potential for savings through efficiency 1


### measures. We want to see clean energy shift to 2



### other states. 3



### I think number one, the EPA should strike 4


### the national CO2 emissions goals to 40 percent of 5



### the 2012 levels by 2030. 6



### Number two, EPA should increase Montana ' s 7


### emission reduction targets, cur rently 20 percent, 8



### the second least stringent standard in the 9



### country. 10



### And three, Montana ' s targets for 11


### renewable energy efficiency should be based on 12



### potential rather than on our existing renewable 13



### energy standards or achieved energy. 14



### Montana is at th e heart of the coal 15


### controversy. The coal industry is being out 16



### competed by cheaper and cleaner fuels like 17


### natural gas. So we wants to expert coal to Asia 18



### through proposed Pacific coast terminals. If 19



### these expert terminals are built, coal companies 20



### woul d like to open up new mines and expand old 21



### ones. 22

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### Colstrip would become the largest strip 1



### mine in the nation. You would see destruction of 2



### some beautiful scenic landscapes. Eminent domain 3



### for new rail lines would divide ranch lands. 4


### Water quality would be degraded and ground water 5



### drawn down. 6



### As for global warming and climate change 7



### in Montana, this means we ' re seeing more and 8



### larger wildfires of the dangerous kind. other 9



### western states are experiencing similar things. 10



### The recent Carlton fire in Washi ngton state in 11


### the Methow Valley burned 400 square miles and 12



### destroyed the first two houses that I ever built. 13



### Health impacts from heat and smoke, 14


### extreme weather events, changes in our seasons. 15



### Montana ' s ecosystems live on water from snow 16



### pack. Large be etle infestations are destroying 17



### huge swaths of our forest lands. We have 18



### droughts. Basically, higher temperatures cause 19



### more water to evaporate over a longer period of 20



### time faster. 21



### We can ' t allow polluters and deniers to 22

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### obscure our sense of reality, like the tobacco 1


### industry tried to do before they were called to 2



### account. 3



### I recently saw a humorous note tacked on 4



### the wall at a doctor ' s office, to wit, " The past, 5


### the present and the future walked into a bar. It 6



### was tense. " That pretty well sums up the human 7


### condition in the year 2014. 8



### We have made some big missteps in the 9



### past. At the time that Ronald Reagan removed 10



### Carter ' s solar panels from the White House, we 11


### lost a chance to lead in solar energy. In other 12



### words, the Gipper dropped the ball an d China 13



### picked it up. 14



### We ' ve seen CO2 levels rise to 400 parts 15


### per million, from 317 only 50 years ago. That ' s 16



### new territory for modern humans. How do you 17


### reverse that trend to have a chance at avoiding 18



### uncontrollable climate consequences. 19



### We will nev er have a better chance than 20



### now, and we really do need to get serious. Costs 21



### will only go up if we delay, and the odds of a 22

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### good fix will go down. 1



### There ' s hope for the future, though. 2



### We ' ve been the alpha polluter in our country, but 3



### emissions are goi ng down here. Even China, the 4


### new pollution champion, is acting. Their folks 5



### don ' t want to gag on their air either. They are 6



### building seven mega wind farms, and they ' re 7


### responding to their own carbon

-- they ' re 8



### responding to their own carbon reduction p lan as 9



### soon as the EPA announced theirs. 10



### Concerned scientists and citizens are 11


### speaking out more than ever before. Our Montana 12



### Elders Organization, MELT, is made up mostly of 13



### retirees from professions as varied as doctors, 14


### geologist, biologists, coal m ine managers, 15



### government agency workers and energy company 16



### employees. They have lots of educators. 17


### We put together a video called Coal Road 18



### to China, which I would like to share with you 19



### folks. The idea in making it was that sometimes 20



### you have to see a place to care about it. I ' d 21



### like to leave that with someone if I could. 22

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### MS. DALCHER: It will become part of the 1



### record. 2



### MR. HERBER: Yeah, we ' ll make sure it 3



### gets in the record. 4



### MR. HOEM: Okay. 5



### MR. HERBER: Thank you, Mr. Hoem and 6



### thank you for y our years of service as well. 7



### MR. HOEM: Thank you. 8



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. 9



### MR. PARKER

- BLIER: Hi. My name is J.D. 10



### Parker

- Blier and I ' m a rising senior. 11



### MR. HERBER: Could you spell that ? 12



### MR. PARKER

- BLIER: J.D. or John, 13



### actually, P

- a

- r

- k

- e

- r, hyp hen B

- l

- i

- e

- r. 14



### And I ' m a rising senior at Pittsburgh 15


### CAPA High School. Some of you may be wondering 16



### why I ' m here. Why, as a seventeen

- year

- old, I 17


### would even care about this issue. Why would I 18



### take time out of my summer vacation to attend a 19



### boring old c ourt hearing? 20



### On the contrary. I don ' t find this to be 21



### a boring old court hearing. In fact, I find it 22

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### terrifying. Since seventh or eighth grade I ' ve 1


### been extremely passionate about the current 2



### environmental crisis. 3



### An essay that I wrote on the harm ful 4


### effect so the fracking process in middle school 5


### sparked this passion. I became curious about 6



### what else lay festering in the open wound that is 7



### our dependence on non

- renewable fuel resources. 8



### After marinating in this knowledge for 9



### about three years, I was called again to address 10



### the issue of climate change. In the second essay 11


### I wrote about climate change, itself, what causes 12



### it, what it effects and what measures can be 13



### taken against it. 14


### This allowed me to not only do research 15



### on what climate was in general, but also to begin 16



### to understand how it affects all manners of life, 17



### human and non. 18



### This work is what, as my mom says, lit a 19



### fire in my belly, and is one of the main reasons 20



### why I ' m standing before you

-- or sitting, 21



### actually

-- today. 22

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### Climate ch ange is the worst threat 1


### humankind has ever faced. It not only effects 2



### the environment but the world ' s economies and 3



### societies as well. And just the last hundred 4


### years, human industry has caused the global 5


### temperature to rise by approximately 1.4 degrees 6



### Fahrenheit , causing drastic changes in weather 7


### patterns, melting ice caps and rising sea levels. 8



### The primary activity contributing to 9



### global warming is the burning of non

- renewable 10



### resource for fuel, such as fossil fuels and coal, 11



### which add carbon dioxid e to the atmosphere. 12



### At one of the listening sessions held by 13



### Pennsylvania Interfaith Power and Light Rabi 14



### Daniel Schwartz said, " This heritage of pollution 15


### of nothing compared to the problems we are 16



### bequeathing to future generations through our 17



### indiscrim inate burning of fossil fuels. I am a 18



### part of that generation that is inheriting a 19



### warming planet. It ' s becoming clearer and 20



### clearer that our planet is suffering and so are 21



### the people on it. 22

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### If you look closely, compelling 1



### connections can be made betw een global disasters 2



### such as famine, drought, flood and the effects of 3



### a quickly warming planet. But it ' s not just 4



### global. It ' s local, too. Every time I walk down 5


### the street and watch a bus drive pass in a black 6



### cloud of smoke it feels as if my life for ce 7


### drains out of me slowly along with the earth ' s. 8



### I know the smoke belching from the coke works on 9



### the Ohio is often in violation of EPA standards 10



### for emissions. 11


### I live here in Pittsburgh. I breathe the 12



### thick air that is, according to the American Lu ng 13



### Association, some of the worst in the country. 14



### But I don ' t want my friends, Doug, who along with 15


### 50,000 other kids in the region suffers from 16



### asthma, to breathe it as well. 17



### I want four distinct seasons. I want to 18



### watch the news and not see reports on the melting 19



### ice caps, rising sea levels or drought in war 20



### torn Sub Saharan Africa, and I want people to 21



### have good jobs to support their families with 22

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### dignity as well. 1


### My commitment to end the suffering of the 2



### planet extends to everyone and everything. 3



### E verything on earth is connected and everything 4


### must act together to keep this enormous organism 5


### in balance. Every action that we take has an 6



### impact. 7


### This is why I would ask you to please, 8



### help our region, our country and our planet. 9



### Please enforce these regulations so that we can 10



### start to heal the world and the people on it. 11



### Thanks. 12



### MR. HERBER: Thank you very much, we 13



### appreciate your testimony. 14


### Mr. Hoem, did you have something you 15


### wanted to drop off to us to include in the 16



### record. I just want to mak e sure we get that 17


### before we go any further, since you did want to 18



### leave that with us. 19



### And that ' s an extra we can keep for our 20



### records? 21



### MR. HOEM: That ' s yours. 22

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### MR. HERBER: Thank you very much. Thank 1


### you, sir, I appreciate you being here this 2



### evening

. 3



### Mr. Parker

- Blier, you have a notebook up 4


### here. Thank you for being here this evening. Do 5


### appreciate you being here. 6



### Next I ' d like to call Lauren Stalter and 7


### Brett Phillips. And if both panelist could 8



### remain until you have both each spoken. 9



### So I don ' t know if you ' ve heard, we do 10



### have a timer to help you with your testimony. 11



### We ' re trying to limit testimony to five minutes. 12



### Ms. Stalter, when you ' re ready. If you 13



### could spell your name for our court reporter? 14



### MS. STALTER: It ' s Stalter, 15



### S

- t

- a

- l

- t

- e

- r . And I ' m reading a testimony by 16



### Steve Sywensky, who is unable to make it today. 17



### MR. HERBER: Could you spell that name, 18



### too, please? 19



### MS. STALTER: S

- y

- w

- e

- n

- s

- k

- y. 20



### " My name is Steve Sywensky. I ' m the 21



### owner of FlyFisher ' s Paradise in State College. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### Sport fishing or fishing for fun is big business 1


### in Pennsylvania. In fact, according to data from 2



### Penn State University, it is a nearly two billion 3



### dollar per year industry. By contrast, the 4


### National Football League is a 9.5 billion dollar 5



### annual busine ss. " 6



### " For 40 years I ' ve owned and operated a 7


### fishing tackle business in central Pennsylvania. 8



### My store employs six part

- time workers as well as 9



### myself, of course, and uses more than a few 10



### vendors, many of whom are also from 11


### Pennsylvania. " 12



### " We also have customers and suppliers in 13



### states across the country. My business, whether 14


### looking at local trade or business in the larger 15


### sense, is highly dependent on water quality and 16



### wild fish stocks. " 17



### " Water temperature and especially cooler 18



### temperatures should al so be viewed as a 19



### component of water quality. Warmer water holds 20



### less oxygen and encourage the growth of disease 21



### vectors, both of which are highly detrimental to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### fish populations. " 1



### " Consistently warmer temperatures are 2



### extremely injurious to wild trout, the foundation 3



### upon which fly fishing businesses like my rest. 4



### Even when water fish, like smallmouth 5


### bass, however, have felt the impact of warming 6



### waters in central Pennsylvania, rivers like the 7


### Juniata and Susquehanna. " 8



### " Warm water occasioned by cli mate change 9



### certainly has contributed to the population crash 10



### of smallmouth in both rivers. In addition to a 11


### negative economic impact, climate change is also 12



### threatening what is a long tradition in sport 13



### fishing in Pennsylvania. " 14



### " The first split cane ro ds in America 15


### were manufactured in Pennsylvania. Authors have 16



### sampled the superb trout waters of Pennsylvania 17


### and their writing has brought the angling public 18



### with their tourist dollars to our state. " 19



### " Our fine wild fish populations and our 20



### strong tradit ion of angling for them should be 21



### zealously guarded, zealously managed and passed 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### on to our children and grandchildren, not thrown 1


### onto the trash heap of fossil fuel. " 2



### " At one time we thought using DDT was 3



### necessary. We now know better. Similarly, we 4



### th ought our use of fossil fuels had no 5



### consequences. We now know better. We need to 6



### begin the process of reducing use of these dirty 7


### fuels as fast as possible so that our future 8



### generations can enjoy the same fishing and 9



### hunting heritage that we have been privilege to 10



### enjoy. " 11



### " Your rule is a good first step, but we 12



### need to do more. I urge you to revise your 13



### proposed rule to require even deeper reductions 14


### in carbon pollution. Global warming is already 15


### harming my business and all of us who work in the 16



### outd oor recreation industry. There is no time to 17



### lose. " 18



### MR. HERBER: Thank you very much. Mr. 19



### Phillips? 20



### MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. 21



### MR. HERBER: Could you spell your name for 22

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### the reporter? 1



### MR. PHILLIPS: Brett, B

- r

- e

- t

- t, 2



### Phillips, P

- h

- i

- l

- l

- i

- p

- s. 3



### A question that we have at hand is, is 4


### there a cleaner, cheaper, reliable energy source. 5


### As there are policies that can make this business 6



### model work to have cleaner, cheaper, reliable 7


### energy. And there is. 8



### I ' m a renewable energy developer. I ' m 9



### from Hawaii, moved to the mainland here, and we 10



### develop solar farms, utility skill and businesses 11


### using a power purchase agreement. The price per 12



### kilowatt over there is around 38 cents per 13



### kilowatt hour, so the ROI is significantly higher 14



### than over here in Ame rica, the mainland. 15


### Here in the mainland we have a great 16



### opportunity with energy deregulation to allow a 17



### business or a homeowner to receive some of their 18



### electricity from renewable sources, as well as 19



### our existing electrical sources. 20



### For instance, if a p lace has a lot of 21



### wind or a lot of sun, those electrons would be 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### transferred out to a place that doesn ' t have a 1


### lot of wind or sun. Currently, this is a 2



### business model in place in about ten to fifteen 3



### states right now. 4



### MR. HERBER: Please continue, I ' m s orry. 5


### Did we forget to reset? Okay. I ' m sorry. 6



### MR. PHILLIPS: Yeah, to promote this 7



### business model we have renewable credits, we have 8



### incentives for the development and the investors 9



### of the renewable energy. But in the proposed 10



### rule there is no incen tive for the end user. I ' m 11


### proposing that the rule be amended to allow a 12



### federal rebate in lieu of a credit to the end 13



### user for purchasing some of their electricity 14



### from a renewable energy source. 15


### So with energy deregulation, we still use 16



### the infrastruc ture that ' s in place, the 17



### transmission lines, but the actual source of 18



### where the electricity is being generated from can 19



### be private businesses. 20



### Now, in the rule, it ' s a one to seven 21



### ratio, for ever y one dollar spent it ' s a seven 22

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### dollar return, and that ' s just on the smog that 1


### are mainly the effects of coal. 2



### On this, if you were to invest into 3



### allowing the end user to have a rebate to pay the 4


### same price as the competitive electricity, it 5



### would be far more than one in seven, the reason 6



### being is that more jo bs would be created. 7


### Eventually, the price per kilowatt hours would go 8



### down. The more renewable energy we have, the 9



### more innovation comes from better technology, the 10



### more electricity we ' ll have at a cheaper price. 11



### We don ' t run out of sun, we don ' t run o ut of 12



### wind. Any questions? 13



### MR. HERBER: Questions? No? Thank you, 14


### sir. Ms. Stalter, Mr. Phillips, thank you very 15


### much for being here this evening. 16



### Next, I ' d like to call Edward Chute and 17



### Gwen Chute. 18



### As they ' re getting settled, I ' d just like 19



### to no te that given that we ' re after 6:00 p.m., 20



### for security purposes, if you want to leave the 21



### building, we have to have somebody escort you 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### out, so we do have people at the back of the room 1


### that if you are planning to exit for the evening, 2



### should they see you, Angela or should they

-- 3



### okay, we ' ll have some people outside to make sure 4


### that the people can get out safely. I think 5



### there ' s a running race going on outside, too, so 6



### there ' s probably a lot of excitement out there. 7


### Ms. Chute, if you ' d like to go first, it 8



### looks like you ' re ready? 9



### MS. CHUTE: Yes, I ' m ready. 10



### MR. HERBER: Okay, go for it. 11



### MS. CHUTE: Okay, you want me to spell 12



### my name? 13



### MR. HERBER: Yes, please. 14



### MS. CHUTE: Gwen, G

- w

- e

- n, C

- h

- u

- t

- e, 15



### Chute. 16



### MS. HERBER: Good evening. My name is 17



### Gwe n Chute and I live at 904 Valley View Road in 18



### Mt. Lebanon. I ' m the Vice

- Chair of the Allegany 19



### Sierra Club and Chair of their endangered species 20



### action team. 21



### I ' m a retired registered nurse with a 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### master ' s degree in maternal child health nursing. 1



### I work f or many years in my clinical specialty 2



### before serving for 13 years on the faculty of the 3



### University of North Dakota School of Nursing, and 4


### then returning to my home state of Pennsylvania 5


### in 1991, where I worked in nursing education at 6



### McGee Women ' s and lat er at Westmoreland Hospital 7


### until retiring in 2008. 8



### This work has left me with a deep and 9



### abiding interest in the health of women and 10



### children. But my focus has broadened in light of 11


### the inexorable advances of climate change. to 12



### concern about the health of our one and only 13



### planet and all its residents. 14



### Last October my husband and I moved from 15


### Mt. Pleasant in Westmoreland County to Mt. 16



### Lebanon, one of the loveliest suburbs of 17


### Pittsburgh, in order to be closer to the 18



### activities and organizations in which we are 19



### involved. 20



### We rejoice in the cultural revival of the 21



### city and enjoy the arts, sports and community 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### events that have made Pittsburgh one of America ' s 1



### livable cities. The one great detractor we have 2



### found has been the poor quality of our air. I 3



### had never suffered respiratory difficulty in my 4


### life. I was dismayed then to begin experiencing 5


### difficulty breathing on many of our daily walks, 6



### to find a thick ugly layer of black particulate 7


### matter coating our windowsills, and smelled a 8



### tell

- tale stink of a coal fired plant wafting 9



### over our beautiful neighborhood. 10



### Invisible but deadly, the pollutants that 11


### compromise our air quality are being sucked into 12



### the lungs of infants, children and residents of 13



### all ages. No wonder Pittsburgh has one of the 14


### highest as thma rates in the nation. 15


### Given the deplorable air quality that 16



### sickens the residents of this fair city, I feel I 17


### must support the EPA Clean Power Plan with its 18



### potential to positively affect the health of 19



### women, children and indeed, all citizens. 20



### The u rgency of our current situation, 21



### vis

- a

- vis, a rapidly warming planet demands our 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### support for the plan. To return to the 1


### alternative of doing nothing would clearly be 2



### folly. 3



### That said, I confess to being less than 4



### thrilled with the EPA ' s plan, not because it 5



### demands too much, but because it demands far too 6



### little, and asks it far too late. 7


### It is not a bold plan but a weak one. I 8



### would be eager to support a bolder, stronger plan 9



### that would one, cut emissions not only from power 10



### plants, but all sources of greenhouse gas. 11


### Two, target the extraction processes, not 12



### only of coal, but also of natural gas, a process 13



### that emits huge amounts of methane, a gas which 14


### is as much as 80 times more potent a greenhouse 15


### gas than carbon dioxide. 16



### Three, greatly increase the emphasis on 17


### and incentivize the development and use of 18



### sustainable renewable energy sources, wind, 19



### solar, geothermal and others. 20



### Four, eliminate rewards for domestic 21



### extraction of fossil fuels to be shipped overseas 22

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### and burned there. This would be a plan I would 1


### support without reservation. The planet requires 2



### nothing less. Thank you. 3



### MR. HERBER: Thank you very much. Mr. 4



### Chute? 5



### MR. CHUTE: I ' m Edward Chute, 6



### E

- d

- w

- a

- r

- d, C

- h

- u

- t

- e. 7


### I am Ed Chute. I live with my wife of 48 8



### years at 904 Valley View in the municipality of 9



### Mt. Lebanon near Pittsburgh, PA. I vividly 10



### remember attending elementary and high school in 11


### Pittsburgh when streetlights were required at 12



### mid

- day because of the dense darkness at noon. 13



### And when the night skies were constantly 14


### illuminated nearly as well as our daylight hours 15


### by the industrial glow. 16



### I remember being uprated by my elementary 17


### school teacher when I drew a yellow line across 18



### the page when told to draw a picture of the sun 19



### rather than the way it appeared in our reade rs. 20



### I didn ' t know the sun was round because it didn ' t 21



### look that way to me through the smoggy air, and I 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### had yet to live or travel beyond the region. 1


### Obviously, James Parton ' s 19th century 2



### description of Pittsburgh as Hell with the lid 3



### off was not just well deserved during my youth, 4


### but also caused by the particulate pollution in 5


### the air from the working steel mills and 6



### industrial factories fueled predominately by coke 7



### and coal. 8



### Since that time Pittsburgh has undergone 9



### two renaissances. Cleaning the ai r so that we 10



### can now see that the sky is blue, not black

-- 11


### sometimes gray

-- and the day, the sun is a round 12



### orb. 13



### The region has refocused, revitalized, 14



### and restructured its industrial, economic and 15


### cultural underpinnings. We may no longer top the 16



### list of most polluted cities in the U.S. and on 17


### the planet. Nonetheless, Pittsburgh still is 18



### below the pass threshold for every measure for 19



### air and water quality no matter what our 20



### politicians try to tell us. 21



### Pittsburgh is still trying to move itself 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### politica lly away from this early and late 20th 1


### century political behaviors into an entirely new 2



### 21st economically, perhaps even politically. 3



### I sense that the EPA ' s proposal suffers 4


### from an analogous and similar too much political 5


### and economic baggage approach to become effective 6



### in dealing with climate change. 7



### I note that the EPA ' s plan may have a 8



### fatal flaw for the planet ' s environment, because 9



### it appears to delay any sort of implementation 10



### until no sooner than 2025, more than a decade 11



### from now at the earliest, because EPA ' s plan 12



### depends so heavily on a set of successful 13



### negotiations and state level agreements prior 14


### even to initiating any serious reductions in 15



### pollutants. 16



### The EPA ' s plan restricts itself primarily 17


### to carbon emissions from electricity generating 18



### plants, essentially ignoring such things as 19



### methane and carbon dioxide gas emissions, which 20



### pose even more serious long term threats to our 21



### breathable and protective atmosphere. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### Any such top to bottom and then back to 1


### the top approach serves mainly to i mpede 2



### initiation and almost is destined to fail within 3



### our current political framework, populated with 4


### so many climate change deniers and fiduciary 5


### elites who value delay in order to make the 6



### proverbial hey today more than they do anything 7


### else, including their own children ' s and 8



### grandchildren ' s and species ' future. 9



### Nearly everything about the EPA ' s 10



### proposal suffers from that wrong hattedness and 11



### mind set. The EPA ' s proposal concentrates fairly 12



### exclusively on pollution resulting from domestic 13



### consumption of carbon fuels, while ignoring the 14


### reality that the U.S. is not the only carbon 15


### polluting nation in the world. 16



### In fact, the EPA ' s proposal ignores 17


### fundamental source of the problem, extraction. 18



### If we leave the coal, the oil and the gas in the 19



### ground, we will have made a giant leap forward in 20



### reducing the greenhouse effect. Failing to deal 21



### with the domestic extraction of coal, oil and 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### natural gas will only encourage the investors who 1


### own or are leasing earth ' s resources to sell them 2



### abroad. Hence inc reasing and encouraging the 3



### planet ' s problem with pollution and extinction of 4



### its resources. 5



### Where is the EPA ' s recognition and 6



### position about the value, even necessity of 7


### renewable energy resources within the context of 8



### climate change? Rather than foc using on 9



### renewable sources of energy, the EPA proposal 10



### encourages investment in the extraction and 11


### exportation of our precious natural resources. 12



### Certainly there are even a more substantial 13



### number of politicians and economic financiers who 14



### do and will fav or investment in such extraction 15


### export resources than there are even climate 16



### deniers

-- climate change deniers. 17


### Such folks potentially are even more 18



### significant in powerful opposition to any and all 19



### current and future attempts to save our one and 20



### only pl anet home from ourselves. In spite of the 21



### flaws

-- I ' m almost done

-- I have delineated, I 22

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### still support the EPA ' s proposal because to do 1


### nothing is totally and completely unacceptable to 2



### me, my children, my grandchildren and the future 3



### survival of our sp ecies. 4


### Our planet has and will continue to 5


### change. It will probably remain for several more 6



### billions of years without us. The issue is, will 7


### any living species survive our recklessness that 8



### we alone and ameliorate and avoid if we act 9



### immediately and p urposely. Thank you. 10



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. Mr. Chute, Mrs. 11


### Chute, than you very much for being here on a 12



### Friday night. We appreciate you being here. 13



### We ' ve had a number of people join us 14


### since we got started so I want to repeat just a 15


### couple of quic k announcements. If you are here 16



### to speak, make sure you ' ve checked in downstairs 17


### at the registration desk. I ' ll be calling up the 18



### speakers in pairs, and there ' s a five minute 19



### speaking limit. That ' s what our little timer is 20



### here for. 21



### And once again, when you are planning to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### exit, because we ' re after six p.m. for security 1



### purposes, we have to escort you out, and we have 2



### folks at the back of the room or in the hall to 3



### help you with that. So if you do intend to leave 4


### for the evening, make sure they go w ith you. 5



### And with that I ' d like to call up our 6



### next two speakers, Adrienne Kaltman, Melissa 7


### McSwigan. 8



### MS. KALTMAN: I ' m Adrienne, 9



### A

- d

- r

- i

- e

- n

- n

- e, K

- a

- l

- t

- m

- a

- n. 10



### Good evening. I ' d like to personally 11


### thank you for this opportunity to come and speak 12



### be fore you today and for extending the comment 13



### period so that I could be here. 14



### As a resident of Southeast Florida with a 15


### law degree in land use planning and environmental 16



### law, I have been dedicated for more than a decade 17


### to combating the effects of climat e change at the 18



### local, state and national levels. 19



### While I am currently a member of the 20



### Broward Country Task Force on Climate Change, and 21



### Vice

- Chair of Davie, Florida ' s Agriculture and 22

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### Environmental Advisory Committee, I am here today 1


### not speaking on their behalf but rather as a 2



### concerned citizen. 3



### South Florida, with its dense population, 4


### porous geology, low lying topography, is 5


### particularly vulnerable to the impacts of climate 6



### change and sea level rise. According to the 2010 7



### census, Broward ' s coastal c ommunities are home to 8



### more than 620,000 residents, more than one

- third 9



### of its total population. 10



### Areas of Fort Lauderdale, Miami Beach and 11


### the Keys experience seasonal flooding and pairing 12



### downtown businesses and destroying residential 13



### and commercial prop erties. Last year storm surge 14


### from tropical storm Sandy destroyed 2,000 feet of 15


### A1A, a major roadway and evacuation root that 16



### resulted in the loss of access to natural 17



### resources and beachfront that residents and 18



### visitors alike enjoy with a price tag of ov er 21 19



### million dollars and a lot to repair, and a loss 20



### of much needed tourism dollars. 21



### Florida relies on its tourism and 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### agricultural industries for a healthy economy, 1


### both of which are severely impacted by rising 2



### seas. In some areas sewers back up, 3



### conta minating city streets, and posing a great 4


### public health risk even on sunny days. 5


### Saltwater flooding poses a great risk to 6



### vegetation. Just as saltwater intrusion into the 7


### Biscayne Aquifer poses a dangerous threat to the 8



### drinking water of South Florida re sidents. 9



### Both private residences and commercial 10



### properties are adversely affected by flooding due 11


### to the rising seas and storm surge. Homeowner ' s 12



### flood insurance rates facing the loss of 13



### subsidies are skyrocketing due to the point where 14



### it is feared that properties will be abandoned, 15


### resulting in tragic personal losses. 16



### It is feared that this will cause a 17


### ripple effect into a recovering mortgage industry 18



### and severely impact Florida ' s economy and quality 19



### of life for its residence. 20



### But southeast Florida is not alone. 21



### Coastal communities throughout the state, as well 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### as the nation, are faced with additional 1


### challenges and have initiated climate change 2



### action plans. More than 20 years ago the Tampa 3



### Bay Regional Planning Council on the west coast 4



### warned a bout the implications of sea level rise 5


### for Sarasota Bay, and they are now facing future 6



### increased sea level rise. 7


### In January, 2010, Broward County joined 8



### Miami Dade, Monroe and Palm Beach Counties to 9



### form the Southeast Regional Climate Change 10



### Compact wit h the goal of developing strategies, 11


### including greenhouse gas inventories for 12



### accessing regional vulnerability to sea level 13



### rise. 14


### The collaboration produced a Southeast 15


### Florida Regional Climate Action Plan, the first 16



### of its kind in a model for other munic ipalities. 17


### In 2011, the Florida legislature passed 18



### the Community Planning Act, which added an 19



### optional designation of an adaptation action area 20



### within the government ' s comprehensive plan ' s 21



### coastal management element. The city of Fort 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### Lauderdale and Bro ward County are each part of a 1



### five

- year pilot project initiated to integrate 2



### sea level rise adaptation into the planning 3



### process so governments can upgrade their 4


### infrastructures in the face of even higher rising 5



### sea levels. 6



### These challenges posed by sea level rise 7


### are not limited to cities, states or regions. 8



### Our nation and the world in general is being 9



### impacted. According to the U.S. Department of 10



### Defense, climate change will quote, " have serious 11


### implications for the ability of the Department of 12



### Defens e to maintain its natural and built 13



### infrastructure and to ensure military readiness. " 14


### According to the DOD, the effects of 15


### climate change are being experienced now and are 16



### expected to increase in the coming years, even if 17


### aggressive greenhouse gas mitigat ion efforts are 18



### implemented globally. Scientists have warned 19



### that climate change will cause glaciers to melt, 20



### reaching a much feared tipping point of no 21



### return. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### A few months ago NASA reported that six 1


### west Antarctica glaciers collapsed into the sea, 2



### a re sult, most likely, of warm waters emanating 3



### from the already melting Arctic Ice Cap. Have we 4


### reached our point of no return? 5


### Climate change is one of the most urgent 6



### issues facing our nation today. If we are to 7


### preserve the future for our children and 8



### g randchildren, we must act now to reduce carbon 9



### pollution. 10



### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 11



### today. 12



### MR. HERBER: Thank you very much. Thank 13



### you for traveling such a long way. Florida, 14



### Montana, I ' m very impressed that you made the 15



### effort to be here with us and I do appreciate it. 16



### Thank you both. 17



### MS. KALTMAN: Thank you. 18



### MR. HERBER: Ms. McSwigan. 19



### MS. MCSWIGAN: Yes, hi. My name is 20



### Melissa McSwigan. I live in Pittsburgh and do 21



### you want an address or just Pittsburgh? 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### MR. HERBER: Pittsburgh i s good, thank 1



### you. 2



### COURT REPORTER: Could you spell your 3



### last name? 4



### MS. MCSWIGAN: Sure. It ' s 5



### M

- c

- S

- w

- i

- g

- a

- n, and I ' m here as a concerned 6



### citizen to support the proposed new EPA 7



### standards. I don ' t think they go far enough but 8



### I know change is hard and we must begin 9



### somewhere. 10



### These new standards will improve air 11


### quality and water quality and will begin to 12



### address climate change in the United States at 13



### the national level. If we don ' t take this good 14


### first step, how many people have to suffer from 15



### asthm a and respiratory problems? How much damage 16



### do we have to do to our water quality that 17



### affects food, health and outdoor recreation and 18



### our quality of life? 19



### How many natural disasters and extreme 20



### weather conditions do we all have to endure 21



### before we wake up and take action at the 22

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### political level, and at that point it could be 1



### way too late. 2



### While it ' s really great that people are 3



### taking various steps to address climate change, 4


### installing solar panels, reducing their 5


### consumption, biking over driving, that ' s all 6



### great, but you know, the only real way that we ' re 7


### going to truly make any difference to address 8



### this mounting problem is really starting with 9



### these regulations through the EPA at the national 10



### level, so thank you. 11



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. And let me a gain 12



### thank all of our speakers for turning out on a 13



### Friday evening, and let me thank the audience for 14


### being very patient, very respectful of all the 15


### speakers, I do appreciate it. 16



### Next I ' d like to call Brad MacCaulay and 17


### Claire Matway. And if you could st art by 18



### spelling your names. 19



### MR. MACAULAY: Good evening, my name is 20



### Brad MacCaulay, B

- r

- a

- d, M

- a

- c

- a

- u

- l

- a

- y. I am a 21



### resident of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### probably one of the most beautiful cities in the 1


### world for actions taken by leaders in the past to 2



### combat extractive industries and pollution. And 3



### I ironically work partially for the extractive 4



### industries. I ' m a research analyst for the 5


### metals industry. 6



### But I ' m here today to support the EPA ' s 7


### proposed standard. I think it should be 8



### implem ented, and I don ' t think it should be 9



### watered down, because as I ' ve seen, it doesn ' t 10



### sound like it ' s as strict as it could be. That 11


### being said, I think it is a good step in the 12



### right direction. 13



### Setting limits on carbon pollution 14


### causing climate change wi ll spur investment and 15


### innovation and clean energy technologies, to 16



### modernize and clean up power plants. New clean 17



### energy technology that produces less carbon 18



### pollution will trade a new generation of clean 19



### energy jobs. 20



### Since 1970, every dollar invested i n 21



### compliance with clean air act standards has 22

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### yielded four to eight dollars in economic 1



### benefits. 2



### Each time an extreme event hits a 3



### community around the country or even around the 4


### world the economic impact is devastating. From 5



### 2011 to 2013 alone, damag es from extreme weather 6



### events have exceeded over 200 billion dollars. 7



### While extreme weather events cause communities 8



### millions, inaction of climate change raises the 9



### cost related to healthcare and hurts productivity 10



### through school and work days lost from various 11


### weather than hurricanes, blizzards, flooding, 12



### extreme heat, extreme cold. 13



### The good news is that I think we ' re 14


### already, as Americans, and I think that our 15


### leaders and government are ready to take action. 16



### In February, 2014, Sierra Club polled the U nited 17



### States and of the poll, seven out of ten 18



### Americans were in favor of putting limits on 19



### carbon pollution of power plants. And even more 20



### interestingly at least half the people already 21



### thought that safeguards existed. 22

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### The poll found that 66 percent off people 1


### believe that climate change is a serious problem 2



### and that the government needs to address it. 3



### Further, Americans are willing to put 4


### their money where their mouth is. A poll 5



### conducted by Harvard and Yale found that the 6



### average American is willin g to pay at least 162 7


### more dollars a year knowing that they have 8



### cleaner energy. 9



### I believe that we have an obligation to 10



### our children, our future generations and everyone 11



### else around the world. Climate isn ' t just a 12



### problem here in the United States, it a ffects 13



### everyone. And I think that we need to address 14


### the primary causes, which stem from greenhouse 15



### gases. 16



### The unlimited dumping of carbon pollution 17


### into our air by power plants is a significant 18



### impact, and I believe that the proposed carbon 19



### pollution standard set by the EPA for the EPA ' s 20



### proposed standard will help to protect everyone 21



### in the United States from health risks and other 22

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### impacts of climate change. 1


### I guess I stand here today just to ask 2



### that I hope that we could adopt these standards 3



### withou t any modification and that we can do it as 4


### soon as possible. Thank you. 5


### MR. HERBER: Thank you, sir. Ms. Matway? 6



### MS. MATWAY: Good evening. 7


### MR. HERBER: Good evening. 8



### MS. MATWAY: My name is Claire Matway. 9



### Do you want me to spell that? 10



### COURT REPO RTER: Yes, please. 11



### MS. MATWAY: C

- l

- a

- i

- r

- e, M

- a

- t

- w

- a

- y. 12



### I ' m going to be a junior at the 13



### University of Pittsburgh. I grew up in 14


### Pittsburgh. My dad grew up in Pittsburgh. My 15


### grandpa and my grandma grew up in Pittsburgh. I 16



### am co

- president of Free the Planet, which is a 17



### student environmental action renovation on Pitt ' s 18



### campus. 19



### So I ' ve been really interested in the 20



### kind of tension between the industrial forces 21



### here and the environmental regulations here, and 22

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### that ' s always a tension that makes me mad. And 1


### so I want to acknowledge that it ' s a complex 2



### issue, you know. Everything is a complex issue, 3



### so there ' s no easy out and there ' s no perfect 4



### solution. There ' s no forward movement that comes 5


### without growing pains and a ton of difficult 6



### adjustments, an d there ' s no measure that is 7


### immediately enough to fix stuff. 8



### The Clean Power Plan is not an easy out 9



### and it ' s not a perfect solution, and it ' s one of 10



### many steps we have to take. So I ' m speaking in 11


### support of it. I think that it could be 12



### stronger, but I ' m speaking in support of it for 13



### sure. 14



### With the Clean Power Plan ' s 15


### implementation, there will be growing pains in 16



### industry, that ' s true. There will be shifts and 17


### difficult adjustments, and sometimes communities 18



### are going to have to reinvent themselves, and 19



### that ' s happening all the time, and I ' m an urban 20



### studies major, so I ' m all about communities 21



### reinventing themselves, and Pittsburgh has 22

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### totally done that, and I ' m really proud of 1


### Pittsburgh ' s industrial past and ability to 2



### reinvent itself as a city. 3



### So basically, I ' m talking about the cost 4



### of progress, the necessary cost of progress, and 5



### so in order to make moves we ' ve got to kick up 6



### some dust. Not everybody will immediately 7


### benefit from the regulations proposed by the 8



### Clean Power Plan, but in the long run everyone 9



### will benefit, and hopefully, in the shorter run 10



### there will be more intense

-- more radical steps 11


### and regulations to curb emissions and to minimize 12



### the pollutive parts of our lifestyles here. 13



### So I ' d say that foresight is also one of 14


### the impor tant forces that play here. We have 15


### this built in immediate gratification from 16



### existing infrastructure of non

- renewable, 17


### unsustainable pollutive energy systems and we 18



### have to put ourselves on pause and do this work 19



### of regulating and radically reducing emi ssions, 20



### and reconfiguring our energy systems and our 21



### infrastructure, and shifting our industrial focus 22

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### to green energy. I think we have to work for a 1


### far off sense, the sense of future gratification 2



### that will come from having someday made it 3



### possible for workers and people to be safer and 4



### healthier and for the air and the earth to be 5



### safer and healthier. 6



### I think it ' s always worth repeating that 7



### low income communities and communities of color 8



### are disproportionately affected by pollution from 9



### coal fired pow er plants and by all kinds of 10



### pollution from all kinds of industry, not just 11


### the energy industry. 12



### It ' s always worth repeating, and 13



### specifically here, the health of workers in the 14


### coal industry is negatively impacted by the 15


### pollute of nature, of the indust ry, itself. It ' s 16



### work repeating that carbon emissions are so tied 17


### in with climate change and that climate change is 18



### so scary. And so it ' s worth emphasizing a lot 19



### that this isn ' t just about air, but it ' s about 20



### people, hugely about people, massively about 21



### people. 22

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### I ' m definitely concerned about the Clean 1


### Power Plan in its implementation, especially. 2



### I ' m concerned mostly about accountability. I ' m 3



### worried that states won ' t enter into a system of 4


### accountability strong enough to prevent them from 5


### finding easy outs just to hit the desired 6



### emissions numbers. 7



### Since we ' ve got to overhaul systems, and 8



### infrastructure and everything here, and not just 9



### quibble with the numbers. I ' m worried about 10



### accountability and I ' m worried about cutting down 11


### on coal causing boos ting

-- causing a boost in 12



### natural gas drilling, hydraulic fracking and all 13



### of that. So please hold us accountable here. 14



### That ' s what I have to say, please move us 15



### forward here and please hold us all really, 16



### really accountable to really doing this work. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 19



### for being here this evening. 20



### Next I ' d like to call Franklin County 21



### Commissioner, Paula Brooks. I said I ' d call up 22

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### speakers in pairs, but Ms. Brooks, you ' re going 1



### solo, it looks like. 2



### MS. BROOKS: Okay . Well, good evening. 3



### My name is Paula Brooks and I am from Franklin 4


### County Ohio. I always explain that there are 5



### nine Franklin counties across the U.S. I ' m from 6



### Columbus. 7



### In June the President announced an 8



### historic carbon pollution rule. Friends and 9



### family throughout my state of Ohio and the nation 10



### will be affected in both positive and negative 11


### ways. In the long run, I believe the positives 12



### prevail. Here ' s why. 13



### As a child, I grew up in coal country in 14


### Ohio. My ancestors fought in the American 15



### Rev olution, then settled in the beautiful 16



### foothills of the Ohio Valley. George Washington 17


### camped right outside of my hometown of East 18



### Liverpool as he surveyed this whole area while 19



### still a British subject. 20



### Our family farm had a strip mine, and I 21



### have fond m emories of fossil hunting there. But 22

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### I also have not so fond memories of the direct 1


### scars that were left on those strip mines, along 2



### with the high cancer and heart disease rates on 3



### loved ones in my family and neighbors nearby, and 4


### all the way through this upper Ohio and Allegheny 5



### Valley due to

-- these folks were lost due to 6



### burning dirty coal. 7


### At the time we all knew that so many 8



### livelihoods depended on that coal and the steel 9



### mills and other plants that the coal ran, and we 10



### had to, we thought, accept ou r fate of ill 11


### health, badly scarred land and lives lost or 12



### maimed, like my grandfather in the underground 13



### coal mines. 14



### Now it ' s time to change all of that and 15


### hasten technology into a clean energy era. As 16



### Ohio ' s member on the President ' s bipartisan 17



### climat e preparedness and resilience task force, 18



### I ' ve become steeped in what is happening to our 19



### world, our nation and our communities from 20



### climate impacts. 21



### For example, since 1958 our region, 22

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### alone, has seen a 37 percent increase in those 1



### hard fast rains called inundations. Those are 2



### overwhelming, our outdated infrastructure 3



### carrying away topsoil and ironically causing 4


### drought because the rain can ' t be absorbed fast 5


### enough. These will get worse if we do nothing. 6



### One of these showers even closed down 7



### I

- 70 and I

- 75 in Ohio just about a month ago near 8



### Dayton, four feet of water on I

- 70 and I

- 75. And 9



### if you ' re familiar with Ohio, it ' s pretty flat 10



### there. Seems almost improbable. 11



### The information about these inundations 12



### comes from

-- and I ' m sure you ' ve read, and thank 13



### you all for your service to our nation

-- the 14



### recently

-- in May of 2014, released U.S. Climate 15


### Assessment, which was authored over four years by 16



### public and private sector U.S. scientists from 17


### around our nation, and I urge everyone in the 18



### audience, i f you haven ' t read the Climate 19



### Assessment, please do so. 20



### Make no mistake, fossil fuels are central 21



### to the carbon pollution problem, especially coal. 22

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### However, it is not just our nation that bears the 1


### burden. Especially must other nations like China 2



### and I ndia be part of the solution or the United 3



### States ' action will not be enough to stop the 4


### average five to ten degree Fahrenheit increase in 5


### temperature anticipated in the next decade. This 6



### is also in the U.S. Climate Assessment. 7



### Think about what that kind of an increase 8



### will do to Ohio ' s largest industry, and a large 9



### industry here in Pennsylvania as well, 10



### agriculture. In Cincinnati alone, that average 11


### temperature increased, I heard last week while 12



### meeting with representatives of the community at 13



### the Freed om Center there, that that would equate 14


### to a 102 degree average temperature in July in 15



### Cincinnati, Ohio. Wow. 16



### The data show that positives for 17


### agriculture will be like the longer growing 18



### season, which we ' re already seeing will be offset 19



### by the drought, a n increase in pests, both insect 20



### and invasive plants. 21



### Additionally, other research that I heard 22

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### about in Toledo just this week indicates that the 1


### heat stress will actually affect the microbes 2



### that give the great boost to growth to corn and 3



### soybeans, and this will decrease the nutritional 4



### value of our great crops of corn and soybean, 5


### which are great U.S. exports as well as domestic 6



### products. 7


### Ohio can play a very important role by 8



### switching to natural gas as a bridge fuel, as is 9



### happening here in Pennsylv ania, and then the 10



### deployment of advanced energy, as our legacy of 11



### Thomas Edison which shows we can. 12



### We ' ve already seen huge gains for 13



### consumers from energy efficiency, implemented by 14


### our utilities, and indeed, a report by the solar 15



### foundation showed that in 2013 there were 3,800 16



### solar related jobs in Ohio, which exceeded the 17


### number of coal mining jobs in Ohio in 2012 by 18



### about 800 jobs. 19



### The United States must act to control our 20



### carbon pollution because it makes it far more 21



### likely that other nations will f ollow as well. 22

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### Not to be an naive optimist, there must be great 1


### effort through many means to ensure international 2



### action, and I urge all of us to raise our voices 3



### to assure accountability from our government. 4


### Combining U.S. action with the voices of 5



### democ racy and other nations, we can make this 6



### happen and save our communities, our nations and 7


### our world for future generations. Thank you very 8



### much. 9



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. And thank you 10



### for helping on the adaptation and preparedness 11



### task force. That ' s v ery important to the 12



### Administration. We do appreciate the help you ' re 13



### providing. 14



### MS. BROOKS: You ' re quite welcome. 15



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. 16



### MS. BROOKS: Thank you. 17



### MR. HERBER: Next I ' d like to call Eva 18



### Resnick

- Day. And you are also solo. You ' re t he 19



### only name on the car. 20



### MS. RESNICK

- DAY: I ' m also a solo, okay. 21



### MR. HERBER: If you could spell your name 22

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### for the court reporter. 1



### MS. RESNICK

- DAY: Yeah. E

- v

- a, Eva, 2



### Resnick

- Day is R

- e

- s

- n

- i

- c

- k hyphenated D

- a

- y. 3



### And I am here to express my support for 4



### the proposed carbon rules and thank the EPA for 5


### taking bold and necessary action to combat 6



### climate change that we all know that we are 7


### facing. 8



### So I am a local resident here in 9



### Pittsburgh. I have lived here my entire life and 10



### see the Pittsburgh transi tion from an industrial 11



### town to one that ' s thriving and a new economy, 12



### and that ' s been pretty cool to see. 13



### And I hear stories from my parents and 14



### grandparents, and I ' m sure a lot of people here 15


### might even remember of when they were walking to 16



### school when they were young and they would have 17



### to put on masks because there was so much 18



### pollution in the air. And that ' s something that 19



### they didn ' t perceive happening at the time. They 20



### didn ' t know that all of the carbon that they were 21



### putting in the atmosphere fro m the industry was 22

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### going to have these effects on their communities. 1



### And once we realized that we took action 2



### here in Pittsburgh to transition and for a lot of 3



### other reasons as well. But the point is we were 4


### able to transition when we realized the negati ve 5


### effects that the pollution was having. And now 6



### we know better. Now we know what carbon 7


### pollution does to our nation. We know that 8



### climate change is coming and we know that it ' s 9



### here and it ' s affecting people not only in the 10



### United States with increas ed weird weather 11


### happening, but also all over the globe in a 12



### really intense way. 13



### I know when I was in Guatemala for a 14


### short period of time I met communities that were 15


### now having to move to different areas of the 16



### country and stay in little shacks with thei r 17


### family across the country because where they used 18



### to live during the year is flooded for half the 19



### year now, something that they never saw before in 20



### decades and decades. So it ' s affecting people 21



### here in the U.S. and throughout the nation. 22

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### And the thing that really terrifies me, 1


### that we would be remembered as the generation who 2



### knew what we were doing to the planet and to the 3



### way that humans are living and we didn ' t take 4



### action because it was too difficult. 5



### And so these proposed carbon rules are a 6



### big a nd important step for our future and making 7


### sure that the U.S. is leading the way and 8



### actually taking action to combat global warming, 9



### because if the U.S. doesn ' t take bold action, 10



### then none of the other nations are going to 11



### follow, because they are not go ing to think that 12



### what they ' re doing is going to make a difference 13



### for the whole world. 14


### So, you know, limiting carbon pollution 15


### is an important step, believing that carbon will 16



### have an impact but it won ' t change global 17


### warming, and going forward in the fu ture, it ' s 18



### happening and we need to adapt. But what it does 19



### do is it sends a strong message that we, as the 20



### United States, actually understand that climate 21



### change is a huge issue and we are willing to take 22

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### those steps in order to protect our future for my 1


### generations, and generations and generations 2



### afterwards. 3



### So you know, I was out on the streets 4



### yesterday and I saw everyone who feels really, 5


### really, really passionately about this, and I 6



### know that it ' s not a politically easy fight, but 7



### it ' s humanly nece ssary. So I just want to thank 8



### you guys for taking that step and continue to 9



### work hard and protect ourselves for the future. 10



### So thank you. 11



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 12



### being here this evening. 13



### Do we have any other speakers in the 14



### room? Oh, w e have some cards coming. I ' d like 15


### to call Daniel Sleigel. Take your time, sir. 16



### MR. SLEIGEL: Hi. 17



### MR. HERBER: If you could spell your 18



### name, Mr. Sleigel? 19



### MR. SLEIGEL: Yes, Dan Sleigel is my 20



### name. Native Pittsburgher, 64 years old, and I 21



### used to sell papers on the corner when I was 12 22

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### years old when they were putting this building 1



### up. 2



### So as a Vietnam veteran, I ' ve seen a lot 3



### of the world, and I know what a treasure a 4


### planet, a safe haven for humanity we have here. 5



### This little blue marble is all there is for a 6



### gazillion miles, so you know, you know all the 7


### facts and figures, and I ' ve studied some of your 8



### points, and your best system mission reduction 9



### that I ' d like to make a comment on, because I 10



### feel the best thing I can do is tell you what I 11



### thin k of what your system is right now, okay? 12



### And point one, you have to make coal 13



### plants more efficient, and I ' m greatly in 14


### agreement with that. I think that ' s very 15


### important, because I believe just the word plain 16



### coal is an oxymoron, okay? I think it ' s ve ry 17


### important. It ' s a necessary evil, yeah, for a 18



### lot of years. We need coal, we got to taper it 19



### down, okay? But we need to gradually trade that 20



### in such as like Germany and other European 21



### countries have done, trade in fossil fuel for 22

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### more renewable resou rces such as solar and wind. 1


### And like I said, in the first part under making 2



### coal plants more efficient, I just have to 3



### mention that I feel the extraction of coal from 4


### the planet with mountaintop removal is causing 5


### massive ecological devastation before th e first 6



### match goes to any block of coal from that. 7



### So that ' s another reason why I feel we 8



### need to reduce that, okay? I do know that 9



### millions of people work in the coal industry and 10



### my heart goes out to them, but they have to 11



### understand that we need to cut back on that. We 12



### all need to find new means of income, and I feel 13



### that the

-- I feel that they spend millions of 14


### dollars actually against the renewable resources. 15


### The oil and gas industry spends a fortune 16



### downgrading it. So if they would spend that 17


### money towards helping renewable resources, I 18



### think then they would be part of the solution 19



### instead of part of the problem, or instead of 20



### trying to prolong the problem. 21



### And it ' s just like, you know, your Part B 22

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### of the best system emission reduction, use gas 1


### plants more efficiently, more effectively, yes, 2



### okay. And then we all know the danger of just 3



### the straight gas well where the gusher is gone. 4



### Now we ' re into the fracking and then that ' s 5


### releasing enormous amounts of methane into the 6



### atmosphere, which is ever worse, way worse than 7


### CO2. So we need to try to curve this down also, 8



### curve the fossil fuels and bring them up with the 9



### renewable resources, the solar and wind, because 10



### you know, there ' s no limit to solar and wind for 11


### a long, long time, you know? 12



### So it ' s just the most important point I 13



### want to make, you know, as we, you know, phase 14


### gas and coal out, bring in more wind and solar. 15



### And there ' s a lot of ways to do that but, you 16



### know, you guys know and it ' s all about all these 17


### industries working toge ther to do that. 18



### And a fourth part is using energy 19



### efficiently, okay? And actually, conservation is 20



### such an overlooked portion of it, too. And I 21



### feel

-- yes, conservation, okay. Gasoline, I 22

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### don ' t like to say this, but I think we should 1



### raise taxes on gasoline. Ouch, my wallet just 2



### bit me in the hind end when I said that. But 3



### I ' ll go along with it because

-- 4



### MR. HERBER: Mine bit me, too, sir. 5



### MR. SLEIGEL: But I know it ' s just common 6



### logic. If it ' s a buck, I ' ll buy five of them. 7



### If it ' s five do llars, I ' ll buy one of them, and I 8



### will find ways to conserve more. I try to now, 9


### but if gas was $10 a gallon, if seven of that was 10



### going towards the renewable resource industry, 11



### I ' d gladly pay it. And this is what we have to 12



### realize, you know, this is

- - earth is a

-- it ' s 13



### not a practice planet. This is a one shot deal, 14



### it ' s all we get, and we ' re well on the way 15


### destroying it, you know, with the

-- of course, 16



### you know with Bill McKibben ' s 350.org group, I 17



### mean, you know, as we get closer to 400 parts pe r 18



### million, the worse things are going to get with 19



### this greenhouse effect, and it ' s not up for 20



### debate, it ' s a fact. So we just need to do 21



### anything we can to bring that back into the realm 22

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### of maybe 300 someday? Dream, wish, you know. 1



### So that ' s pretty much what I have to say, 2



### but just to say in the end, I ' d like to say a 3



### conservation, instead of a chicken in every pot 4



### I ' d like to see a Prius in every driveway. 5



### And then there ' s a saying that says he 6



### who half breathes, half

- lives . Well, if it ' s a 7



### clean air, it ' s 50/50, but see, if it ' s bad air, 8



### if you only half breathe, you ' re only one

- quarter 9



### living. Well, do the math, okay? Clean air is 10



### the most important thing we need, okay, the 11



### environment. 12



### And you know, I have a noble respect

-- 13



### as a Vietnam veteran, I get a lot of gratitude 14


### for my service to our country, but I want to tell 15


### you how much gratitude I have for you and thank 16



### you because you are the sculptors of our planet. 17


### What a job. I salute you and I thank you for 18



### everything you do for humanity and e arth. 19



### MR. HERBER: And I salute you, sir, for 20



### your years of service. Thank you for being here 21



### this evening. 22

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### MR. SLEIGEL: You ' re very welcome. 1



### MR. HERBER: Than you. 2



### MR. SLEIGEL: Have a good day. 3



### MR. HERBER: Do we have any other 4


### speakers in the aud ience? You ' re going to go 5



### check? 6



### I ' m sorry, I don ' t have a card with your 7



### name

-- 8



### MS. MADAUS: No, that ' s okay. 9



### MR. HERBER:

-- so if you could say your 10



### name and spell it for our court reporter, that 11



### would be great. 12



### MS. MADAUS: Sure. My name is Moni ca 13



### Madaus. It ' s rather an unusual name, it ' s 14



### M

- a

- d

- a

- u

- s. I don ' t know if you want me to 15


### spell, it has a C and not a K. 16



### Okay, I am from Zelienople, Pennsylvania, 17


### which is even more of a pain in the neck to 18



### spell. Do you want me to spell that? 19



### COURT RE PORTER: Sure. 20



### MS. MADAUS: Okay, Z

- e

- l

- i

- e

- n

- o

- p

- l

- e, 21



### which is about 40 miles north of here. I want to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### thank you for having an evening session because I 1



### couldn ' t make the day session, and I ' m glad to 2



### hear that it was a little bit better attended, 3



### becaus e I think this is probably one of the most 4


### critically important issues of our time. 5


### But I do appreciate the fact that you had 6



### an evening session, because it allows more people 7


### to provide some input. 8



### I don ' t have a lot to say in terms of the 9



### argument, it ' s in the data. I ' ve heard a lot of 10



### things back and forth. I want to focus on two 11


### particular thoughts I keep thinking and having in 12



### dealing with climate change. 13



### And the first one, one of the better 14


### arguments or one of maybe the better images I had 15



### of t his was from an astronomer who was talking 16



### and he said, you know, it ' s a little more like 17


### Goldilocks, and other people have talked about 18



### the fact that this is a rather unique planet. 19



### It ' s not too hot and it ' s not too cold, and it ' s 20



### just barely either. A little bit one way, a 21



### little bit the other way. We take our luck for 22

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### granted. We happen to luck out on having a good 1



### planet. 2



### And we don ' t entire, I think, appreciate 3



### the fact that it doesn ' t have to be that way. 4


### Some other people talked a little bit about 5


### agriculture and there is a book by Mr. Diamond, 6



### or Dr. Diamond, probably, who talks about the 7


### fact that we take the bounty of our agriculture 8



### for granted and we don ' t really understand the 9



### fact that our wind patterns and our weather 10



### patterns are also not for granted. And that we 11


### can disrupt them, and if we disrupt them, that ' s 12



### not really going to have a happy outcome. 13



### So I think that people have to have that 14


### Goldilocks image in their mind of not too hot and 15


### not too cold when they think about global 16



### warming. 17



### Now, I understand that there are a lot of 18



### compelling arguments on the other side, but to 19



### me, whenever I hear those arguments, I have this 20



### image in my mind of walking through the woods and 21



### coming across somebody who is sitting on a branch 22

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### and sawi ng off the branch that they ' re sitting 1



### on. And you stop and you say to that person, 2



### what are you doing? And the person says what I 3



### am doing makes perfect economic sense. Right 4



### here, I can show you a spread sheet that tells me 5



### that what I ' m doing makes p erfect economic sense. 6



### And you walk away shaking your head and 7


### saying, you know, the scary part is that person 8



### might be right and they ' re still wrong. Thank 9



### you. 10



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. And thank you 11


### for coming out on a Friday night. 12



### Do we have any o ther speakers. Okay, 13



### we ' re going to put it on pause for a couple of 14


### minutes until we get some more speakers. 15



### [Recess from 7:19 to 7:39 p.m.] 16



### MR. HERBER: Well, welcome back. Thank 17


### you for being patient. We have a couple more 18



### speakers. And is our cour t reporter ready? 19



### Great. I ' d like to call Velessa Souter

- Kline and 20



### Peter Stalter. Hello again. 21



### MS. SOUTER

- KLINE: Getting in under the 22

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### wire. So my name is Valessa Souter

- Kline, that ' s 1



### S

- o

- u

- t

- e

- r hyphen K

- l

- i

- n

- e and I ' m actually 2



### here to read on behal f of Carol Oldham. 3



### MR. HERBER: And could you spell Carol ' s 4



### name, please? 5



### MS. SOUTER

- KLINE: I can. It ' s 6



### C

- a

- r

- o

- l, O

- l

- d

- h

- a

- m. 7



### " My name is Carol Oldham and I live in 8



### Brookline, Massachusetts. and I am submitting 9



### this testimony as a private citizen. " 10



### She ' s an environmental organization 11



### person. 12



### " I want to state right at the beginning 13



### that I strongly believe that the EPA not only has 14


### the right to regulate carbon pollution from 15


### existing power plants, I believe it has an 16



### obligation. " 17



### " I grew up spendin g summers in New 18



### Hampshire at an old family cabin on a lake. I 19



### have spent time every summer of my life there. I 20



### got married there and it is a precious place in 21



### my life. " 22

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### Carol continues. " What we refer to these 1



### days as my happy place. I can already see 2



### impacts from climate change on the lake. Things 3



### like invasive snails, unsafe ice for ice fishing 4


### much of the winter, and lake levels that change 5


### dramatically because of more infrequent but 6



### larger precipitation events. " 7



### " You ask why the lake level matter s. One 8



### of the most iconic and haunting sounds of the New 9



### Hampshire lakes is the call of the common loon. 10



### My entire childhood I remember waking in the 11


### night to hear the loons calling across the lake. " 12



### " The loons on our lake have only had one 13



### successful n est in the last five years, despite 14


### there being at least two pairs nesting there. 15


### One major reason is that after a big rain lake 16



### levels rise, inundating loon nests which are 17


### right on the edge of the water. " 18



### " And extreme weather events, like a 19



### massive rai n that drive up the level of the lake 20



### for a few days are only going to get worse if we 21



### let climate change get worse. " 22

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### " That is just one reason out of the many 1


### why we must cut carbon pollution, and we must do 2



### it now. " 3



### " I know that although I sometimes wan t to 4


### think only about today, we must balance between 5


### the long term and the short term. I know it is 6



### hard to do something now for a path later, like 7


### continuing the way make and use energy now, 8



### because it would make our children ' s and our 9



### grandchildren ' s li ves better. " 10



### " When I think about weather, I would want 11


### a life with air and water pollution, drought and 12



### wildfires, heat waves and extreme stores, and not 13



### being able to hear loons at night, that is not a 14



### life I would choose if I had a chance to choose. " 15



### " The illusion is thinking that we don ' t 16



### have a chance to choose. We do. I choose to 17


### support the Environmental Protection Agency ' s 18



### choice to make our lives better by regulating 19



### carbon pollution, and to help us all to a better 20



### way of life. " 21



### " I know we can do this and create good 22

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### jobs here at home while we improve our health and 1


### improve our lives and make things better for 2



### wildlife. " 3



### " I know communities can get work force 4


### training to transition from a current way of 5


### making energy to a cleaner, safer world a nd 6



### better paying jobs. That is why I support the 7


### Environmental Protection Agency ' s developing and 8



### implementing the strongest possible carbon 9



### pollution standards for existing power plants. 10



### Thank you. " 11



### MR. HERBER: Thank you. And thanks to 12



### Ms. Oldham. M r. Stalter? 13



### MR. STALTER: Hello. My name is Peter 14



### Stalter, S

- t

- a

- l

- t

- e

- r. And I ' m reading on 15



### behalf of Brian Henderson, H

- e

- n

- d

- e

- r

- s

- o

- n. 16



### " My name is Brian Henderson and I am a 17


### manager of Residential Energy Services for 18



### Envinity, Incorporated. Infini ty is a 19



### Pennsylvania based company devoted to helping our 20



### customers make their homes and businesses more 21



### energy efficient. " 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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### " We also help our clients transition into 1


### using clean renewable energy where the 2



### opportunities exist. " 3



### " As a need for our energy c onservation 4


### and renewable energy generation goes in the 5


### United States, so too does our company. Envinity 6



### opened its doors in 2005 with three employees. 7


### Now, nine years later, we are doing over 2.5 8



### million dollars in business per year. This 9



### industry is re ady and Envinity is here to lead 10



### the way into the clean energy future. " 11



### " We would love to continue to grow our 12



### company. All we need is the opportunity. Your 13



### proposed rule that helps begin the process of 14


### transitioning to cleaner renewable energy gives 15



### us that opportunity. " 16



### " The changes in your proposed rule would 17


### bring about or only help our company, and our 18



### industry as a whole. We understand that 19



### challenge is difficult, and we understand that 20



### other industries will not see the same 21



### stimulation that ours will, but we assure you 22

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### that our industry is strong, intelligent and 1



### ready. " 2



### " It is imperative that the EPA makes the 3



### new rule to cut carbon pollution from existing 4


### power plants as strong as possible so that we can 5


### begin the transition to a clean energy economy. " 6



### " There is urgency with this, as we are 7


### already seeing changes to our air, land and 8



### water. The proposed EPA rule is the best thing 9



### we can do to help us get further away from our 10



### dependency on fossil fuels. " 11



### " I would like to thank you for the 12



### op portunity to speak on this issue. We feel it 13



### is of the utmost importance to our company, our 14


### community and our country. " 15



### " The lasting positive impacts of the 16



### proposed rule far outweigh the transitional 17


### difficulties of moving toward a clean energy 18



### future. Therefore, we give your proposed rule to 19



### reduce carbon pollution from existing power 20



### plants our strongest support. " 21



### MR. HERBER: Thank you, Mr. Stalter. 22

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### Could you spell Mr. Henderson ' s company ' s name, 1



### please? 2



### MR. STALTER: Envinity, E

- n

- v

- i

- n

- i

- t

- y, 3



### I ncorporated. 4



### MR. HERBER: Thank you and thanks to Mr. 5



### Henderson. 6



### MR. STALTER: Thank you. 7


### MR. HERBER: Thank you both for being 8



### here. I will use the prerogative of the Chair to 9



### call Mr. Daniel Sleigel again. We have no other 10



### speakers and Mr. Sleigel has a repeat performance 11



### for us. 12



### MR. SLEIGEL: Hello again. 13



### MR. HERBER: Welcome back, sir. 14


### MR. SLEIGEL: How you doing, how ' s it 15


### going? 16



### MR. HERBER: We ' re so good, how about 17



### yourself? 18



### MR. SLEIGEL: Oh, very wonderful. Very 19



### blessed and thankful to be here. And

-- 20



### MR. HERBER: Well, we ' re lucky to have 21



### you sir. 22

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### MR. SLEIGEL: This is a wonderful song I 1


### discovered inadvertently on the internet called 2



### Song for the Climate. It ' s called Song for the 3



### Climate. You can find it on 4


### SongForTheClimate.org, or YouTube Song for the 5


### Climate, okay? 6



### MR. HERBER: Is this your song, sir, or 7



### one you

-- 8



### MR. SLEIGEL: No, I didn ' t write this. 9



### MR. HERBER: It ' s not one you wrote, 10



### okay. 11



### MR. SLEIGEL: I ' m just repeating and 12



### performing it. I heard it on the internet an d 13



### I ' ve seen it sung by thousands of people all over 14


### the planet, you know, every continent, ever 15


### nation, every language, so I think I would like 16



### to present it to you as a gift, because I think 17



### it ' s part of the glue that holds humanity 18



### together that we all t hink like this, those of us 19



### that care about life. 20



### And these are the words and a first 21



### verse, actually. And feel free to sing along. 22

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### You ' ll catch the drift if you ' re real fast. 1



### MR. HERBER: Sir, we ' ll limit it to your 2



### signing this evening. 3



### MR. SLEIGEL : You ' ve heard it? 4



### MR. HERBER: We ' ll limit it to your 5


### singing this evening and we ' ll

-- 6



### MR. SLEIGEL: Don ' t hold back, if you 7


### feel like it sing along. 8



### MR. HERBER: (Singing) We need to wake 9



### up. We need to wise up. We need to open up our 10



### eyes and do it now, now, now. We need to build a 11



### better future and we need to do it now. 12



### We ' re on a planet that has a problem. 13



### We ' ve got to solve it, get involved and do it 14



### now, now, now. We need to build a better future 15


### and we need to start right now. 16



### Songforthe Climate.org. I ' m just Dan 17


### Sleigel kind of passing the song on but you can 18



### catch it on the internet by a million other 19



### people. 20



### Thank you very much. 21



### MR. HERBER: Thank you, sir. Appreciate 22

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### you coming back. 1



### (Applause.) 2



### MR. SLEIGEL: I salute once agai n to your 3



### noble profession, what you do for our planet and 4


### humanity. 5


### MR. HERBER: Thank you, sir, we ' re your 6



### government and we ' re happy to be here. 7



### MR. SLEIGEL: Thank you. 8



### MR. HERBER: Do we have any other 9



### speakers in the audience this evening? 10



### Okay, we ' re going to hold out here until 11


### 8:00 p.m. in case any other late attendees 12



### arrive. For all of you who have been here this 13



### evening, thank you so much for taking time out of 14


### your Friday evening to be with us. Mr. Hoem, 15


### especially, for traveling so far. Thank you very 16



### much for making the trip, sir. 17



### [Recess from 7:48 to 8:00 p.m.] 18



### MR. HERBER: The time is 8:00 p.m. and I 19



### would like to close the evening session for the 20



### day. So I thank everybody for being here. I 21



### thank the court reporter. You all have a good 22

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### evening and have a safe trip home. Thank you 1



### all. 2



### [Public Hearing concluded at 8:00 p.m.] 3

4

5

6

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9

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13

14

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16

17

18

19

20

21

22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 200 36 Washington: 202

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- 1108 • Baltimore: 410

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