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86–153 PDF 2014

S. HRG. 113–169 

BRIDGING THE SKILLS GAP: HOW THE STEM 

EDUCATION PIPELINE CAN DEVELOP A 

HIGH-SKILLED AMERICAN WORKFORCE FOR 

SMALL BUSINESS 

ROUNDTABLE 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND 

ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

MAY 22, 2013 

Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana, Chair 

JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho, Ranking Member 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

TOM HARKIN, Iowa 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire 

KAY R. HAGAN, North Carolina 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

WILLIAM M. COWAN, Massachusetts 

DAVID VITTER, Louisiana 

MARCO RUBIO, Florida 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

TIM SCOTT, South Caarolina 

DEB FISCHER, Nebraska 

MIKE ENZI, Wyoming 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

JANE CAMPBELL, Democratic Staff Director 

SKIFFINGTON HOLDERNESS, Republican Staff Director 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS

Page 

Landrieu, Hon. Mary L., Chair, and a U.S. Senator from Louisiana .................. 1 

Risch, Hon. James E., Ranking Member, and a U.S. Senator from Idaho ......... 8 

Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne, a U.S. Senator from New Hampshire ............................ 9 

Pryor, Hon. Mark L., a U.S. Senator from Arkansas ........................................... 10 

WITNESS TESTIMONY

Kolvoord, Bob, Co-director, Center for STEM Education and Outreach, James 

Madison University .............................................................................................. 4 

Ferrini-Mundy, Joan, Assistant Director, National Science Foundation for 

Education and Human Resources ....................................................................... 5 

Uvin, Johan, Deputy Assistant Secretary, U.S. Department of Education ........ 5 

McAdams, Camsie, Senior Adviser on STEM Education, U.S. Department 

of Education .......................................................................................................... 6 

Fiala, Gerri, Deputy Assistant Secretary, U.S. Department of Labor ................ 6 

Belsky, Leah, Senior Vice President of Operations, Kaltura ............................... 7 

Mooney, Dee, Executive Director, Micron Foundation ......................................... 7 

Goodman, Loren, Chief Technology Officer and Co-founder, InRule Technology .................................................................................................................... 7 

Moneypenny, Naomi, Chief Technology Officer and Co-founder, ManyWorlds, 

Inc. ......................................................................................................................... 7

Taylor, Shree, Managing Partner, Delta Decisions DC, LLC .............................. 8 

Wang, Rose, Founder and CEO, Binary Group ..................................................... 8 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Belsky, Leah 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Biographical sketch .......................................................................................... 52 

Ferrini-Mundy, Joan 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Biographical sketch .......................................................................................... 39 

Fiala 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 45 

Goodman, Loren 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 55 

Letter dated June 6, 2013, from Loren Goodman to Chair Landrieu 

and attachment ............................................................................................. 71 

Kolvoord, Bob 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4 

Biographical sketch .......................................................................................... 38 

Landrieu, Hon. Mary L. 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1 

McAdams, Camsie 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Biographical sketch .......................................................................................... 44 

Moneypenny, Naomi 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 59 

Mooney, Dee 
Page

IV 

—Continued 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 53 

North, David S. ........................................................................................................

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 73 

Parker, Randi ...........................................................................................................

Letter dated May 21, 2013, from Randi Parker to Chair Landrieu and 

Hon. James Risch .......................................................................................... 76 

Report titled ‘‘Youth Opinions of Careers in Information Technology’’ ....... 78 

Report titled ‘‘State of the IT Skills Gap’’ ...................................................... 99 

Pryor, Hon. Mark L. 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 10 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 11 

Risch, Hon. James E. 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 40 

Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 9 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 40 

Taylor, Shree 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 63 

Uvin, Johan 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 40 

Wang, Rose 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 67 
(1) 

BRIDGING THE SKILLS GAP: HOW THE STEM 

EDUCATION PIPELINE CAN DEVELOP A 

HIGH-SKILLED AMERICAN WORKFORCE FOR 

SMALL BUSINESS 

WEDNESDAY, MAY 22, 2013 

UNITED STATES SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in Room 

428, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Mary L. Landrieu (chair 

of the committee) presiding 

Present: Senators Landrieu, Pryor, Shaheen, and Risch. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARY L. LANDRIEU, CHAIR, 

AND A U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA 

Chair LANDRIEU. Good morning. Our Small Business Roundtable 

will come to order. We are expecting a couple of our members to 

join for a hopefully informative and informal hour-and-a-half to 

two-hour discussion about a very important matter pending before 

the Congress, and that is, Bridging the Skills Gap, How Stem Education Pipeline Can Develop a Higher Skilled American Workforce 

for Small Businesses. 

There is a lot of focus in my view on what large businesses may 

need, GE, IBM, et cetera, but not enough in this discussion on immigration reform, in my view, about what the critical skill gaps are 

with small businesses, 10, 25, 50, 100 employees; start up businesses; and is the immigration bill that passed the Committee just 

last night, which in my view was the right step forward. I am generally supportive of comprehensive immigration reform. 

But we are going to explore today, I am sure you all are familiar 

with what is in that bill as we have been following it closely to see 

how it affects the small business skills gap issue. 

So, thank you for joining us at the Roundtable. As I stated, the 

purpose is to discuss challenges faced by startups and small- and 

medium-size business relative to workforce training and readiness. 

It will cover America’s need to bridge the current workforce skill 

gap and fuel small business growth through the development of a 

sustainable STEM education pipeline. 

The central question I want to ask to you all today: What are the 

skills that workers and potential employees of small businesses 

need to meet the demands of small business owners and how can 

we make sure that all Americans, including women and minorities, 
2 

develop the skills necessary to be hired and meet the opportunities 

for growth and expansion of many small businesses in America 

that have, indeed, a very promising future? 

We have assembled here today an impressive group of policy experts and small business owners to help us explore the answer to 

this question. So, thank you all for being with us today. 

This is the second in a series of roundtables that will focus on 

the specific immigration reform issues that are in the major piece 

of legislation that are affecting small business. 

We will share these ideas, comments, questions, and solutions 

that have come from our roundtable with the cosponsors of the bill 

and some of these ideas may turn into amendments on the floor of 

the Senate or the House. 

As you have all heard, S. 744 passed out of Judiciary last 

evening with a vote of 13 to 5. Last week in this Committee, in this 

room, we had a spirited and informative discussion about the ramifications of the E-Verify program on small businesses as proposed 

by S. 744, The Border Security Economic Opportunity and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013. 

In a few weeks, we will hold our third and final roundtable on 

immigration that looks at innovative border security technologies, 

what portal is DHS using to open up opportunities for small businesses in America that have the technology currently available to 

help secure our borders and bring more transparency to the process 

of government contracting. 

The American Society for Training and Development defines the 

skills gap as a significant gap between the organization’s current 

capacity and skills it needs to achieve its goals. 

It is the point at which an organization can no longer grow or 

remain competitive because it can not fill the critical jobs with employees who have the right knowledge, skill set, and abilities. 

According to the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 

the U.S. currently has 3.7 million job openings waiting to be filled. 

I believe that most people, at least the people that I represent, 

want to work and many businesses want to hire but the widening 

skill gap prevents many Americans from filling the jobs of the 21st 

century and from our exciting small businesses from expanding. 

According to the International Center for Leadership in Education, the skills gap in the country has resulted from a shift in our 

economy that is becoming increasingly supported by STEM-based 

industries and occupations, science, technology, engineering, and 

math. 

These occupations include computer software engineers, network 

and database administrators, physician assistants, and home 

health aides. It seems to me that software engineers, network and 

database administrators, and physician assistants, and home 

health care aides could be trained in the domestic workforce right 

here in America, although there is a big push to open up opportunities for foreign workers to come in for these and other jobs. 

Additionally, according to a recent report by the Congressional 

Research Service, jobs in many occupations even non-STEM occupations require a high level of STEM knowledge than ever before. 

Students who pursue STEM-based education programs gain thinking, problem-solving skills that will enable them to be successful. 
3 

Most significantly a large percentage of the workforce in industries and occupations that rely on STEM knowledge and skills are 

technicians and others who enter and advanced in fields associated 

with degrees and certificates through the workplace training. 

According to Wells Fargo Gallup Small Business Index, even 

though half of small business owners hired new workers in 2010, 

42 percent of these hired, fewer employees than needed. 

That is a very interesting statistic. I want to repeat that. According to a Wells Fargo Gallup Small Business Index survey, even 

though half of small business owners in America hired new workers in 2010, 42 percent said they hired fewer than needed, I am 

assuming because they could not find the right skills. 

Sixty-two percent of that group said it was because it was hard 

to find qualified employees for positions available. 

A study by the National Research Council shows that small businesses employ nearly 40 percent of American scientists and engineers, produce four times more patents than larger businesses and 

universities and produced patents that are of higher quality and 

more than twice as likely to be cited. That is pretty exciting. 

One part of the bill being debated by the Judiciary Committee 

would raise the number of H–1B visa recipients to a maximum of 

180,000 from the current 65,000, nearly doubling the amount of 

foreign workers that U.S. businesses would be able to hire. 

An additional 25,000 H–1B visas will be reserved for foreign students who have obtained advanced degrees in science, technology, 

and engineering. 

While allowing these high-skilled foreign STEM graduates to 

stay, work, and grow businesses in the U.S. is something that I 

support, it is something that is already in the bill. It can most help 

us close the skill gap in the near term. I personally believe we 

must take the steps necessary to develop our own domestic workforce to meet the continued needs of U.S. business in the decades 

to come. That is what this panel is about. 

Companies want to expand and hire additional employees. However, too few American workers have been given the opportunity 

for retraining, potentially too few students are graduating with 

STEM skills. Why is that happening when we are spending billions 

and billions of dollars of education in the United States? 

For example, according to the Department of Commerce, minorities comprise only 28 percent of the overall STEM workforce; they 

represent 36 percent of the total workforce but only 28 percent of 

the STEM workforce. 

Women make up 48 percent of the national workforce while they 

makeup just 24 percent of the STEM workforce or STEM workers. 

Furthermore in 2007, unrepresented minority groups comprise 33.2 

percent of college-age population in the United States but only 17 

percent of undergraduate students earned a STEM degree. 

So, the work by the Judiciary Committee has been finalized but 

the work of the Senate has not. Our Committee hopes to provide 

some informed debate for the Senate floor on this issue. 

Last week, the Senate Judiciary Committee adopted Senator 

Hatch’s amendment that will add $1000 fee in addition to what 

was already in the bill for an H–1B petition. These new funds will 

be deposited in the STEM education and training account that will 
4 

raise an estimate of $135 million per year. Seventy percent of these 

funds will be distributed to states for STEM-related grants for the 

purpose of improving STEM education so that it meets the needs 

of both students and employers, and I would say employees that 

need retraining. 

The National Science Foundation will receive 20 percent for 

STEM capacity building at minority-serving institutions of higher 

ed, and the remainder will be divided between the departments for 

job training and administrative costs. While this is a step in the 

right direction, the question is: Is it a big enough step to make a 

difference? 

This new fund is in addition to the existing H–1B non-immigrant 

petitioner account that also uses H–1B visas to fund STEM scholarships. Together these funds will raise between $230 million and 

$300 million per year which sounds like a lot except I am going to 

figure out how much money we are spending per year in all of education. I think this will be a drop in the bucket. 

While this is certainly a move in the right direction, I believe we 

can do more. I believe our country needs a more well trained domestic workforce as well as opening up opportunities for foreign 

workers to come in in the short term and help us fill the gap. 

Are we as legislators doing enough to meet the needs of our 

small businesses? What exactly are those needs? What would small 

businesses like to see? That is going to be part of the roundtable 

today. 

Before I ask you to introduce yourselves, I would like to go over 

the format. We have done this now successfully, I think, and we 

have gotten a lot of good feedback about our roundtables. 

This is very informal. It is not like a regular hearing. I am going 

to ask each of you to introduce yourself and speak for less than one 

minute about your main theme or idea. Then, I am going to ask 

a series of questions that you all can respond to as you will. 

You should just place your name card up like this with your 

name facing me so that I can call on you. Why do we not start to 

my left with Dr. Kolvoord to introduce yourself and give just kind 

of a one-minute thought or, you know, comment and then we will 

begin with questions. 

Dr. KOLVOORD. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. My name is Bob 

Kolvoord. I am the Co-director of the Center for STEM Education 

and Outreach at James Madison University. 

My interest here is in thinking through the possibilities in higher 

education to provide additional STEM opportunities for students 

beyond the traditional ones that we have offered for a long time. 

Often higher education is somewhat slow to change, I think 

might be a charitable way to say it. We at James Madison have 

pioneered some interesting and innovative new programs to draw 

additional students to STEM majors and through to graduation. 

We have increased our STEM majors more than 25 percent in the 

last five years. 

I would like to share details of the appeal of some of those programs to women and under-represented minorities. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Well, we are very excited about that. Thank 

you very much and we look forward to getting some detail. 

Dr. Ferrini-Mundy. 
5 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Good morning, Chair Landrieu. 

Chair LANDRIEU. You have to speak into your mic and kind of 

lean into it like this because it is a little difficult but it will pull 

toward you. 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Good morning and good morning roundtable participants and distinguished guests. 

My name is Joan Ferrini-Mundy, and I am the Assistant Director 

at the National Science Foundation for the Education and Human 

Resources Directorate, and I am very pleased to be here today. 

At the National Science Foundation, we engage, through competitive merit review processes, in funding projects of a range of 

types that are intended to support STEM education and workforce 

development. 

So particularly, I would like to highlight our advanced technological education program as one example of a strategy that the 

NSF has used to encourage partnerships among institutions of 

higher education, mostly community colleges in this case, with local 

industry and business to develop preparation programs for technicians and technology experts who can really be well prepared to 

move into those business settings quickly. 

And so, we feel that that kind of a strategy together with funding 

more research about what it takes to be well prepared for business 

and how to close the skills gap of which you spoke are important 

ways for the Federal Government to support the improvement of 

preparation in the workforce. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Wonderful. 

And I cannot see your name card. I am sorry. Okay. Mr. Uvin. 

Mr. UVIN. Good morning, Chair Landrieu. I am Johan Uvin. I am 

a Deputy Assistant Secretary at the U.S. Department of Education 

and I coordinate our policy issues in the Office of Vocational and 

Adult Education, focusing on adult education, career—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Is your button pressed? I am sorry. Press the 

talk button. 

Mr. UVIN. I coordinate our policy issues around adult education, 

secondary and post-secondary career and technical education, 

which has a great STEM focus in it and our community college 

work. 

In my opening remarks I want to draw attention to the fact that 

the Administration is proposing a comprehensive reorganization of 

STEM education programs to support a cohesive national STEM 

educational strategy and to increase the impact of federal investments in the 2014 budget proposals to consolidate or restructure 

more than half of the 226 STEM programs and redirect the funding 

to four priority areas, pre-kindergarten through grade 12 instruction, undergraduate education, graduate fellowships, and informal 

education activities. 

We have a handout for everyone, and we would be more than 

happy—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. That would be wonderful if the staff could pass 

that around and people can glance at it as they are here. 

I am very proud and aware and proud of the Administration’s efforts to consolidate and streamline and really meet the challenge 

of a domestic workforce that is probably not having as much oppor-
6 

tunity as could be provided if the government and our private sector partners would restructure themselves appropriately. 

So, thank you. We look forward to getting into some detail. 

The Ranking Member has just arrived. I would like to go ahead 

and have everybody finish introducing themselves and then we will 

recognize the Ranking Member for opening comments. 

Ms. McAdams. 

Ms. MCADAMS. Good morning, and thank you very much for having us here and also for the leadership that you have shown on this 

issue. 

I am familiar with many of the STEM focused schools and STEM 

efforts in your State and in the States of other members of this 

Committee, and I am coming to you as a Senior Adviser on STEM 

Education at the U.S. Department of Education and also as a 

former educator. I taught math and science in urban public schools 

for 10 years and was also the STEM District Administrator as well 

here in the District of Columbia. 

So, the perspective that I bring also comes from what teachers 

and students are doing that is working and also what we need 

more of and I think what we need the most of is partnerships and 

more people helping to bridge academic achievement gaps but also 

skills gaps. 

I am happy to answer questions about our proposals, not only in 

the fiscal year 2014 budget but also current investments that the 

Department of Education has made to help improve STEM education both at the P through 12 level and in our higher education 

space. 

Thank you very much. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Wonderful. 

Ms. Fiala. 

Ms. FIALA. Good morning. Thank you, Chair Landrieu. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Press your button and speak into your mic. 

Would the staff please be of assistance? 

Ms. FIALA. Can you hear me now? 

Chair LANDRIEU. Yes. Pull the mic a little bit closer to you. There 

you go. 

Ms. FIALA. Thank you, Chairman Landrieu, and thank you Ranking Member Risch. We are very pleased to be here today to talk 

about the work that we are doing at the Department of Labor to 

meet the skill needs of America’s small businesses, and particularly 

we know that you are interested in the job training funds that we 

funded through our share of H–1B revenue fees paid by employers. 

So I want to talk about those a bit. I want to talk about the partnerships. I think that is terribly important, which was emphasized 

between employers and the training organizations to define what 

is needed by small business. 

Our long-term goal in this effort is to decrease the need for H– 

1B visas by helping American workers develop the high skills that 

they need to meet the requisite requirements, skill requirements of 

America’s employers. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. Very interested in that. While I am 

very open to foreign workers coming in and I can absolutely agree 

the statistics are clear that we need to fill this gap in the near future, I think every American would like us to do more to develop 
7 

our own workforce here at home and give people opportunities here 

at home. I am glad to know you are focused on that. 

Ms. Belsky. 

Ms. BELSKY. Thank you for having us here today. I am here representing an organization called Engine Advocacy, which represents hundreds of startups throughout the U.S., and I myself am 

an executive at a startup company called Kaltura. 

We are a 200-person company that grew from about 15 over the 

past few years. We are headquartered in New York with R and D 

centers in Israel, and we were founded by four immigrants. 

So, there is a lot I can share just from on the ground experience, 

both from our own business but also from working with the network of startups at Engine, and I am on their board of advisors. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. 

Ms. Mooney. 

Ms. MOONEY. Yes. Hello. Thank you for having me here today. 

I represent a company called Micron. We manufacture memory in 

virtually all of our electronic products. I am actually from the Micron Foundation. 

Our mission is to support math and science education programs. 

So, I am very interested in the conversation here today. We believe 

in three areas, supporting our teachers, supporting our students 

and our community. Those public-private partnerships are where 

we need to come together to increase the STEM pipeline. 

Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Goodman. 

Mr. GOODMAN. Hello. Thank you very much for having me here 

and giving me an opportunity to speak. My name is Loren Goodman. I am the Chief Technology Officer for a software company in 

Chicago, and we have two problems. 

One is a deficit of finding talent which has put us in a difficult 

situation; and on another level, I really think to approach the 

STEM problem we need to make programming literacy on par with 

the time tables in our education system, that there is a common 

denominator of all of these which is the ability to make technology 

do what you want, and we are not baking it into kids on a par with 

the other things that we teach them. 

I think an entire country or people who can program and make 

a computer do anything will be far better prepared to compete with 

other countries as we go forward. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you, Mr. Goodman. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. An appropriate name for this Committee. 

[Laughter.] 

That is right. I know. 

Chair LANDRIEU. But money dollars would be better but go right. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. I am sorry. I will change my name to that. 

I really do appreciate the opportunity to be here. I am Naomi 

Moneypenny. I am the Chief Technology Officer at ManyWorlds. 

We are a small software company out of Houston, Texas. 

What we are really focused on is having that workforce available 

to us. We are struggling currently finding the talent that we need, 

and the talent that we can get actually we are competing against 

much, much larger firms to get. So, we have had to resort to, you 
8 

know, importing some of that talent, even off-shoring some of the 

jobs that we need. 

Another focus for us just because you had it in your opening comments is actually around the patent process. About 20 percent of 

our revenues go to research and development, primary research 

and development. 

So, patenting is a very important process for. We have over 15 

granted patents already and another 25 or so in the works. 

So, finding the workforce, those specific skills that we really need 

and how do we drive those into the education system so that, as 

Loren was saying, we can adapt and move quickly and maintain 

American competitiveness. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. 

Dr. Taylor. 

Ms. TAYLOR. Good morning. Thank you for the invitation to be 

here. I am Shree Taylor. I am the cofounder and managing partner 

of Delta Decisions of DC. 

We are a small business that focuses on the use of data to solve 

a broad range of problems for organizations and businesses as well 

in the federal, state, and sectors. 

I am interested in developing solutions and also partnerships to 

help demystify, expose, and mentor our STEM students. My bachelors, Masters, and PhD are all in applied mathematics. So, it is 

very possible to have homegrown talent here. I graduated from 

Clark-Atlanta University in Atlanta, Georgia, which is an HBCU. 

My PhD is from North Carolina State University. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Ms. Wang. 

Ms. WANG. Thank you, Senator, and thank you for the Committee for inviting me to be here. I am here as a member of WIPP, 

Women Impacting Public Policy, as well as CEO of my own firm, 

Binary Group. We are a government technology consulting firm 

providing technology solutions to the Department of Defense. 

What I want to talk about here are two things. One is we cannot 

find enough cleared skilled engineers to hire. We have opened billets that we cannot fill because there are just not people out there 

ready to be hired. That is one issue. 

The other one is one of my passions. I am actually an immigrant 

and he came here on a bill that was that in 1990, Chinese Students 

Protections Act. I am passionate about STEM because my background is computer science. I think we can do a lot more here in 

this country to build a skilled bench for the U.S. economy by encouraging young girls and boys, starting with math and science 

education early. That is what my personal belief is that that education has to start very early. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you so very much. 

Ranking Member Risch. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES E. RISCH, RANKING 

MEMBER, AND A U.S. SENATOR FROM IDAHO 

Senator RISCH. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

First of all, this issue is not a new issue, and we are so glad to 

have somebody from Micron Technology here. She has a background that can tell us all about this. 
9 

Micron Technology is the world’s second-largest maker of 

DRAMS in the world. It was founded in a garage in Boise, Idaho, 

by three very entrepreneurial people and it has grown to what it 

is today. 

Boise does not have access to the large pool of engineering talent 

like a lot of places in the country have; and so, for many years 

under the leadership of Steve Appleton, who we tragically lost not 

long ago, Micron Technology set about doing what everybody in 

this room is talking about today; and that is, fostering an understanding and an interest in the STEM education not only for young 

people but all the way through the colleges and universities. 

Micron has been a tremendous benefactor of the universities as 

far as engineering education in Idaho. 

Having said all of that, they also recognize the pragmatics that 

we have today; and that is, even with all these efforts, and they 

have made Herculean efforts in Idaho, they still are not able to get 

the talent that they need. 

So, the visa program at least as we work our way through trying 

to get more students interested in this and bringing more students 

on line is going to have to play a major role for American companies. 

And, I meet with American companies every day, including ones 

in Idaho, that cannot get the help that they need to do the work. 

Now, that does not mean the work is not going to get done. What 

it means is the work is not going to get done here. It is going to 

get done overseas and we are going to lose tremendous benefit from 

that. 

So, it is important that we do focus on all aspects of this. The 

work that we do today for kids that are just starting out that you, 

Ms. Wang, referred to is not going to bear fruit for many, many 

years to come, indeed, in two decades. 

So, we have to focus on all aspects of this, and I believe that is 

what we should talk about here at the hearing today. 

Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. 

Senator Shaheen, thank you for joining us. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JEANNE SHAHEEN, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE 

Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member Risch, very much for holding this roundtable discussion. 

I especially appreciate all of you who are here to join us in this 

discussion as we think about how do we ensure the skilled workforce that we need in the future, and that is really, I only heard 

the end of what you said, Ms. Wang, but I think that is the point 

you were making is that we have got to make sure that we have 

students who are engaged in STEM subjects. 

And, I think one of the ways to do that is through providing more 

opportunities for hands on experience in those STEM subjects; and 

we have some great examples of programs like the first robotics 

competition, Raytheon’s Rocketeer program, the real-world design 

program, all of which provide that kind of hands-on experience. 

One of the things we need to do is to encourage schools to participate in those programs. I am going to introduce legislation tomor-
10 

row to try to do that; and hopefully, as you all know, we can get 

more and more of our young people particularly starting at that 

age to get excited. 

And, I have to say, Madam Chair, and I think this is a particular 

issue for young women and girls because, while women make up 

about 48 percent of the workforce, they only make up about 24 percent of the STEM the jobs in this country. 

And so, we really need to encourage them to get away from the 

stereotypes that state girls are not good at science and math and 

let them know they can do anything they want to and we need 

them involved in these subjects because we need their skills for the 

future. 

So again, thank you very much, Chair Landrieu, for holding this 

very important discussion today. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you so much. As usual, you hit the nail 

on the head because many of these small businesses represented 

here need those women with those skills so that they can grow 

these small businesses represented here and that is exactly why we 

are holding this roundtable. So thank you. 

Senator Pryor. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARK L. PRYOR, U.S. SENATOR 

FROM ARKANSAS 

Senator PRYOR. Madam Chair, I will put an opening statement 

in the record but I just want to say thank you for doing this and 

thank all of you for your leadership on this. It is obviously very important. We need to get it right. We need to keep America and 

globally competitive and to stay on that front edge of the global 

economy. 

So, thank you for doing this. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Pryor follows:] 
11 
12 
13 

Chair LANDRIEU. Wonderful. As you know, this is very informal 

and my members can jump in and follow up with questions. I will 

get us kicked off; and if you want to respond or think of something, 

just raise your placard here. 

But let me start with the Department of Education, if we could, 

would you briefly explain what the Administration’s positions and 

efforts are on this domestic workforce enhancement. 

The Administration also, I think, supports opening opportunities 

for foreign workers to come in and has been supporting that balance that the Committee has been discussing and, of course, the 

immigration bill that passed out of Committee last night. So, the 

information, members, that we gather today will be, I think, helpful for our floor debate that will ensue in a few weeks. 

But on the Department of Education, Mr. Uvin, Deputy Secretary of Office of Vocational and Adult Education, just give us two 

minutes to kind of kick off this discussion and then anybody can 

jump in to ask questions, et cetera; and then, Ms. McAdams, you 

may want to add something as well. 

Go ahead, Mr. Uvin, explain how this consolidation is going to 

work; and try to give us an understanding of what—the total is 

$3.4 billion—what percentage of that is of the total, you know, 

amount of education spending at all levels, both federal, state, and 

local if you have it and if not you could submit that were the 

record. 

But go ahead. 

Mr. UVIN. Chair Landrieu, thank you. 

Some of the specifics that you are requesting at the end of your 

comment, we will get to you. I do not have these handy. So what 

I would like to do is maybe give a little bit of an overview of the 

STEM reorganization proposal. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Try to lean into your mic. I am so sorry. 

Mr. UVIN. Sure. No problem. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I do not know what to do with these microphones. I cannot do any better but you have to just lean into it or 

we cannot pick up your voice. 

Mr. UVIN. Is this better? 

Chair LANDRIEU. Better. 

Mr. UVIN. I will talk a little bit about this comprehensive reorganization of STEM education programs to support what we have 

called a cohesive national STEM strategy to increase the impact of 

all the federal investments. 

As I alluded to quickly, our 2014 budget proposal advances the 

idea of consolidating or restructuring more than half of the 226 

STEM programs and take and redirect funding from 78 of these 

programs to the four priority areas I outlined earlier. 

One is pre-K through 12th grade instruction, undergraduate education, graduate fellowships, and then informal education activities. 

Chair LANDRIEU. What was the fourth one? Informal? 

Mr. UVIN. Informal education. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Informal. 

Mr. UVIN. Yes. 

The Department of Education in this effort would lead the improvements in the P through 12th grade instruction area by sup-
14 

porting partnerships among school districts and universities, museums, federal science agencies and their facilities, businesses and 

other community partners to transform teaching and learning. 

The department would help organize many of our Nation’s school 

districts into what we have called STEM innovation networks that 

can develop, share, and replicate best practices for effective teaching and provide rich and up-to-date content knowledge in the 

STEM areas. 

There is also a focus in this comprehensive plan on preparing 

and recruiting high quality K through 12 STEM teachers and to 

recognize and retain our most talented STEM teachers through the 

creation of what we have called a National STEM Master Teacher 

Corps. 

So, by reorganizing and realigning resources, this proposal facilitates greater investment and rigorous evaluation and evidence 

building strategies to meet our critical national goals such as increasing the number of undergraduates with a STEM degree and 

broadening—and this is a very important point that has been alluded to already—participation by under represented groups. 

The reorganization will also make it easier for educators and 

school leaders to navigate the spectrum of STEM education resources and identify effective strategies to improve teaching and 

learning. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Let me stop you there. 

Mr. UVIN. Sure. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And just to get this discussion going, Mr. Goodman, and Ms. Mooney, does anything that you are hearing from the 

Administration make sense to you all about the needs of what was 

going on in Idaho that your company—and I understand that your 

company and Idaho have been promoting STEM development in 

the schools in Idaho—is anything that you just heard similar to 

what you all have been doing? 

Also, Mr. Goodman, you said that a Nation that has kids that 

understand how to program computers will be important. Is anything that you are hearing here important to you? 

Let us start with you, Ms. Mooney. 

Ms. MOONEY. Yes, thank you, Chair Landrieu. 

Absolutely, everything that I heard are programs that we are already involved in or definitely support. We believe that pipeline is 

very necessary so getting the kids young in school, getting excited 

about math and science and then having programs that follow 

them all the way. 

But we definitely believe that the teacher in front of the classroom, if they have the content knowledge and the passion for math 

and science, that is very important. And so, with the master teacher program, we are aware of that and we have several programs 

that also support those kinds of initiatives. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Since I agree with that, let me ask—is 

the Administration supporting merit pay for master teachers, do 

you know? 

Ms. MCADAMS. I would say that merit pay by its definition is 

usually fairly controversial and probably not something we are supporting. What we are supporting is relationships with districts or 

regions or even with an individual school where the best and 
15 

brightest teachers can be rewarded for doing something extra, not 

just at their school, which is what they are doing right now. 

Great teachers are helping their colleagues all over the country 

right now by being more of a national resource. Taking excellent 

teachers that are in North Carolina working very hard at some of 

the most upcoming STEM schools and STEM magnet programs and 

taking those teachers and having them be more of a national resource. 

The support would be maybe in the form of a stipend but it could 

also be in the form of relief time or other opportunities to be leaders within their district as a recognized role. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. And the reason I ask this is because my 

own personal experience with nurses is, I think, instructive. 

We have many openings for nurses in Louisiana. We cannot fill 

all the slots that we have, and the reason is because our State or 

Federal Government or combination thereof cannot find nursing instructors because the nurses can make $100,000 in a hospital doing 

nursing but they can only make $50,000 instructing other nurses. 

So I mean, how do you solve this problem? 

Senator RISCH. Pay teachers more. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Well, pay the good teachers more and be able 

to be able to recruit the kind of teachers you need to produce the 

work force you need. 

Now, this is not rocket science. I mean, I am struggling with this 

in our own State. These nursing positions are STEM, are they not? 

Ms. MCADAMS. Yes, of course. 

Chair LANDRIEU. They pay very well. But we are bringing in foreign nurses because we cannot figure out a way to get nursing instructors in front of community colleges or universities. 

So, I am hoping that the Administration has their eyes all over 

this and is focusing on this. Let me get to you, Doctor, and then 

I will get you Ms. Casey. 

Senator RISCH. Madam Chairman, let me get my two cents worth 

in. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Go right ahead. 

Senator RISCH. This stuff is not rocket science. When I became 

governor, we had the same problem in Idaho. I built two nursing 

schools and paid the teachers more and all of the sudden the nursing shortage went away. But it is not rocket science. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Well, if everyone was as smart as this governor 

we might not have a problem. I might have to send my governor 

to go talk to him because we are still having a problem in Louisiana. That is a great solution. 

Senator RISCH. The problem was exactly the same way. When I 

became governor, we had 800 empty positions for nurses; and the 

people who were in our nursing schools were exactly the kind of 

people we were trying to help. 

They were mostly single moms who had really not much of an 

ability to make a living and all of the sudden they got out of nursing school and they are making 40 some thousand dollars a year 

and had a job and most were signed up long before they got out. 

But this stuff is not rocket science. 

And I am going to go to the government now. You say you have 

226 programs dealing with the STEM issue? 
16 

Mr. UVIN. Over 200, yes. 

Ms. MCADAMS. Yes. The current funding is over 220 programs. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And they are consolidating it down to four. 

Ms. MCADAMS. No. Consolidating it to approximately half of that 

with four focus areas with three lead agencies—the Department of 

Education, the NSF, and the Smithsonian Institution. 

Senator RISCH. How about one program with a very smart person 

heading that program? That is what we do in the private sector. 

Yet, you know, with all due respect and I mean this sincerely 

with all due respect, as I said in my opening statement, this is not 

a new problem. 

The government, the Federal Government and the State governments have been poking at this. I spent almost 30 years in our 

State senate and time as governor and lieutenant governor, and it 

does not seem, I would like to see these that this takes. Has somebody got statistics on the number of graduates with STEM degrees, 

because the perception is we are not making much progress in this 

regard? Encourage me. Give me some numbers. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Does anybody have those numbers, and if not, 

if you would submit it and I am sorry, Doctor, you had your card 

up, and then I will get to you, Camsie. 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Thank you. I was just going to pick up from 

my colleagues from the Department of Education and talk about 

the National Science Foundation’s piece of this reorganization, 

where our focus would be on two other really important steps in 

the pathway to working in business and industry, and those would 

be the undergraduates and graduate preparation and just a couple 

of quick notes. 

At the undergraduate level, the attrition rate for students who 

start college thinking that they would like to pursue STEM and 

then who finish is very poor and it varies by field and it varies by 

gender and it varies by race and ethnicity, and we can get you specific numbers. But we are losing people who come to college thinking they are ready to pursue STEM. 

So, a big focus in NSF’s leadership within this proposed reorganization will be at the undergraduate level. How can we ensure 

that the instruction that students are getting in STEM is of the 

highest quality? How can we assure that they are getting real life 

experiences early on in their experience as undergraduates? 

And then at the graduate level, the government offers a number 

of fellowships and traineeships across agencies and what we understand from the data—and we can get you some specifics—is that 

although students completing PhD’s are perhaps well prepared for 

academia, their preparation for other places of work may not be as 

strong. 

And so, our hopes, in doing some revisions of our graduate research fellowship program, are to increase learning opportunities 

outside of the academic pathways, such as opportunities in labs 

and in companies. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Since I am a numbers person, like my Ranking 

Member, and our other members would be interested, if you could 

submit for the record before this Committee is closed, give us like 

a 10-year look-back and maybe a five-year projection of these graduate students and the attrition, you know, success or failure, rate 
17 

broken down, I mean, over all and then broken down by some various categories that would make sense for us, because my general 

sense of it, and I could be wrong, governor, is that, you know, we 

are making progress but we are just not making enough progress. 

And so, I think part of the goal of this Congress should be not 

just immigration reform—not really focusing on this skills gap, but, 

particularly for this Committee, how the skills gap relates to small 

business. 

I mean, the opportunity is there, especially when you take into 

consideration the statistic I gave out before you all came in, I think 

62 percent of small businesses are under hiring. That means they 

want to hire more, have the money to hire more, but cannot find 

the qualified people that they need. 

So, you know, this is really an economic issue as we all know. 

Senator RISCH. Before we move on, can I follow up? 

Doctor, that is really interesting, the comment that you made 

that there is a bottleneck there at the bachelor level where they 

come in thinking they are going to pursue STEM, and then go out 

of it. 

What is your sense? Why do they go out of it? Do they go out 

of it because it is too tough, that they are not prepared, or that 

they had any romantic idea that they were going to be rocket scientists and they found out it was not what they thought? What is 

the reason for this switch in pursuit? 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Thank you for the question. Probably all of 

the above but what the data show us in particular is a set of concerns about instruction, that is to say, they came excited but then 

they are not sure when they get into some introductory courses 

about what the real world applications might look like, whether 

they will really have a chance to use what they know. 

Senator RISCH. But that is true in most pursuits. 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Right. 

Senator RISCH. I mean, get into college and you take a 101 

course. It is hard. You know what I mean. 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Right, and the other thing that we think 

may be a issue is preparation, particularly in mathematics, because 

even when students come with a pretty strong background in K 

through 12, the jump to college-level introductory mathematics, 

particularly the math needed for the STEM careers, is sometimes 

a challenge. 

So, we have a number of efforts to try to focus on getting this 

math gap fixed. 

Senator RISCH. Interesting. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Yes. So, they might have come into college with 

a 3.5 in math but the problem is that the math level that they took 

in high school has not adequately prepared them for the actual 

math that has to be done. 

Now, you would catch that in an ACT test or you would catch 

it at an SAT. But you would not normally catch it by just a grade 

point. And, many of our colleges have open enrollment. 

But go ahead, doctor, and then I will get you, Camsie. 

Dr. KOLVOORD. Senator Landrieu, actually you do not catch it in 

the SAT score. What we are finding is they are not able to apply 

the mathematics that they learned. They can perform quite well on 
18 

the SAT and then they get into an introductory engineering course 

or they get into another introductory course and they stumble because they are not literate in the mathematics. 

I think that is a major challenge. My experience is in line with 

Dr. Ferrini-Mundy’s. 

I would add one more thing. Particularly in the STEM areas, students have to slog a long time before you get to the interesting 

stuff. 

The programs that we have designed at JMU try to get students 

to applications much earlier so they can understand and be motivated to work through the basic materials so that they can actually 

do the work that interests them in the first place. The stuff that 

Newton did 400 years ago is not quite so interesting to students 

these days. 

[Laughter.] 

Chair LANDRIEU. No wonder I did not move into that field. 

Mr. Goodman, go ahead and then I will come back. 

Mr. GOODMAN. Thank you very much. 

Chair LANDRIEU. This is very interesting. I want to follow up on 

the SAT but go ahead. 

Mr. GOODMAN. Yes, I wanted to hit on that one as well. Thank 

you. 

I do have some numbers that there are 40,000 graduates a year 

in STEM, and right now the jobs created in STEM is 120,000 a 

year. My understanding also, and I do not know these numbers exactly, is that the number of STEM graduates has gone down by .8 

percent since 2000 and the number of history graduates has gone 

up by three percent since 2000. 

I think the comment that was made by the doctor in terms of 

making it fun, we treat technology like a career choice, not a common denominator. 

So, we teach biology. We teach science. We teach math. But we 

do not teach them as a means to an end. We teach them as a 

means to get a grade. 

And, I think somebody made a suggestion in one of our meetings 

yesterday that, if there was a class on how to build an app for 

money in high school, that kids would see that it is a means to an 

end and it would not be this open-ended Newton experience. I 

mean, the programming languages we teach in college are 40 years 

old. That would say if I wanted to be a writer, well, why do you 

not learn Latin. It is about taking advantage of what we have. 

So thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Excellent comments Mr. Goodman. I really appreciate that and I sure hope the Department of Education is listening because this is such a fundamental flaw or shortcoming I 

should say—some people may say flaw—shortcoming in our education system. We have got to step this up and be teaching kids 

where their interest is, their excitement to fill the skills gap. 

Ms. Casey, I will get to you and then I will run this line. Go 

ahead. 

Ms. MCADAMS. It is Camsie. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Sorry. 

Ms. MCADAMS. Thank you. 
19 

I wanted to talk about two or three things. One is, Ranking 

Member Risch, you talked about one really great program and I 

would say that my colleagues around the table, Ms. Wang, Ms. 

Taylor, Ms. Belsky and Ms. Mooney, would probably say that one 

program does not really cut it. There are different niches within IT, 

for example, or within software development. 

And that even within nursing, there is the pathway of being a 

neonatal nurse versus a surgery nurse versus a home health care 

aide. 

I think that we need to be really careful to make sure that we 

are letting regional economies determine what is the best for what 

is in their neighborhood. 

So, the program, the STEM innovation networks, is designed to 

let folks like the people in Boise come together and say, what opportunities do we have right here; the people in Louisiana to say, 

we have a real shortage in nursing so we are going to design a 

whole K through 12 pipeline pathway program much like Ms. 

Mooney was speaking about, to really start in the very early grades 

with these informal activities, these informal exposures where you 

bring STEM professionals into the classroom so that kids can see 

different opportunities for careers and then follow that up all the 

way into the high school with a great opportunity to do advanced 

coursework even before they get to the college campus so that they 

do not necessarily hit the ground at a deficit and can take advantage of dual credit and dual enrollment and advanced placement 

coursework. 

These are the kinds of things that are built into the design of the 

STEM innovation network, and these are the kinds of things I 

think will generate both interest and excitement. 

Being a neonatal nurse is a very serious STEM occupation. I met 

a young woman in Maine who wanted to be a neonatal nurse but 

she did not know how to find a derivative. She did not know how 

to do proportional thinking in her head. 

I thought, well, you have a long way to go. So, we have to do a 

better job from the beginning of inspiring the interest and then all 

the way to the end with academically rigorous and relevant 

coursework. 

To the computer science point, I think this is something that also 

these networks could do. They could emphasize, if you are in a tech 

corridor, the IT pathway. There are programming opportunities 

that can be done in elementary schools, not just in high school. 

We can start very early on, and some of these resources are free. 

Alice and Scratch, these are resources that are out there that have 

been developed through grants that are open resources available to 

everyone. 

The last thing I want to point out is, to clarify, to your first question that you asked about merit pay, is that the department supports performance pay and there are efforts to link teacher performance to student outcomes, whether we measure those through 

multiple means, but we do support the idea of having teachers 

being paid for performance that is linked to better outcomes for 

students, which is really what this is all about. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I appreciate your clarifying. 
20 

Ms. Belsky, go ahead and comment; and then if anyone knows 

a region where what Ms. McAdams just talked about, a region or 

an example where, because, as the governor said and senator, my 

Ranking Member, this has been going on a long time and there are 

some states and regions that might be doing a little bit better on 

this and closing that gap. We would like to put that on the table 

if anyone knows. 

But go ahead, Ms. Belsky. 

Ms. BELSKY. Sure. So, it is tremendous to hear more about the 

pipeline efforts that are going—that are taking place—now that the 

government is proposing. 

One thing this brings to mind, though, is, you know, what are 

we going to do now for startups that are building their businesses 

today. 

I think right now in particular we are in a moment where 

startups are sexier and have grabbed the attention of popular consciousness in a way that they have not before. What we need is not 

only to address the long-term pipeline but figure out how to get 

employees to our companies today. 

I can tell you at Kaltura the company that I run today, we end 

up hiring, we have about 10 percent of our positions which are continuously open despite the fact that we have taken expensive venture capital funding, are paying interest on that, and we cannot fill 

them. 

So, what we have done is we have hired people, particularly 

women, who do not have technical experience. We send them to 

courses. We set them up with mentors. Over time many of these 

folks have turned out to be very, very productive employees. 

The thing is we need to be able to scale this and I am sure some 

of my other colleagues here would need similar solutions as well. 

So, I guess one question I am putting forth, we have heard from 

the dean over here that there are interesting workforce partnership 

programs but what else is out there that we could potentially scale 

to address in the pipeline. 

Chair LANDRIEU. An excellent point. And if you would put your 

placard down so we can see you. 

But I would like to follow up on this point because here at the 

table we have sort of the Administration and Education and Labor, 

et cetera, what they are doing. But an interesting question that 

Leah raises is her business is doing something now about the skills 

gap. 

My question is: As a small business, how do you line up to get 

the H–1B visas that are going to be available for foreign workers? 

That is one question. 

Is it first come first serve in the bill? Is there a set aside for 

small businesses in America? If not, why not or should there be, 

et cetera, et cetera? 

And then for domestic, are we doing anything in your proposals 

that would help a business like Ms. Belsky—either through a tax 

credit or anything that might be helpful while they are doing their 

own training? 

Instead of using schools and universities, this business, like 

many businesses in my State, do their own training. And they are 

so desperate to find the kind of workers they need. 
21 

Are we doing a thing to help them? Does anybody know? Does 

anybody know if the government is doing anything? Is it just strictly your company? 

Ms. BELSKY. So, I do not know of any other government programs. We are certainly not doing this in partnership. We are 

interacting with colleagues in the startup community to take these 

initiatives together but that is all, to my knowledge. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Ms. Fiala. 

Ms. FIALA. A couple of things that I can talk about, and I will 

save the discussion on the H–1B technical skill grants for a second 

but that is a piece of this. 

When you talked about, Senator, retraining, that is near and 

dear to our heart as well because there are a lot of middle skill jobs 

in the STEM area and other areas that, perhaps, Ms. Belsky and 

others out there, small employers, could take advantage of. 

I mean, we know that much of the growth today is being done 

by small employers and is very difficult to connect, and you just 

gave the story. 

We have a network of 2700 American jobs centers around the 

country who can connect employers to various skill training programs. I was in a conversation a couple of days ago with a group 

that provides employers with opportunities through the workforce 

system to customize training and to be able to hire employees and 

to be able to customize the training for them so they can work and 

learn at the same time. 

In fact, the H–1B technical skill training grants that we can talk 

about that are funded by a part of the fees that employers pay to 

bring in temporary workers that—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. So, you are saying a business like Ms. Belsky’s 

could get one of those grants? 

Ms. FIALA. It is not a grant. They could actually have, converse 

with the local workforce system in New York and talk about their 

skill needs and work out either a customized training grant, and 

employers have to put skin in the game. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I think she has a lot of skin in the game. 

Ms. FIALA. She has a lot of skin in the game. So, I think it is 

a great opportunity for her and we would be more than happy to 

connect her and others interested in that at the local level. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I would like to make sure that this really works 

for small businesses that are so busy doing their business that they 

do not have a lot of time, of course, to figure out all of these government programs. And, I think that the simpler we can make this 

for customizing training because sort of the way I am looking at 

it is all hands on deck. 

I mean, we have a real problem here, and it has to be solved by 

everybody doing everything we can. 

Dr. Taylor, go ahead. And then I will get you Ms. Moneypenny. 

Ms. TAYLOR. I wanted to the point about the applications, the 

math and science. I am a first-generation college grad. Neither of 

my parents attended college and I have a PhD in mathematics. 

Now, some of the solutions that I am hearing sound a little bit 

traditional and one-dimensional. What I am thinking is that we get 

outside of the box, make it a little bit more multi-dimensional; and 
22 

I think the STEM students need to be more immersed into STEM 

activities beyond just training in school. 

And, let me make this point. My husband has a PhD in physics. 

He is African-American, went to an HBCU as well. So, we are bit 

of an anomaly. I will admit. 

However, our daughters live and breathe math and physics. They 

do not realize the advanced level but we bring it in to the home. 

It is a part of our culture. When I go to PTA, I participate in some 

of the classroom activities. The kids learn it. They do not realize 

it because I do not present it as Newton’s theory or Einstein’s philosophy. 

So, there needs to be a different presentation to help demystify. 

Sometimes in the past, it had been where being a mathematician 

was a club, and it is definitely an honor, but it is not unattainable 

and it is not only for a particular group of individuals. 

And so, when I go out, I have T-shirts that say, I love math or 

I am a mathematician; and I cannot tell you how many young 

women have come up to me and say, are you a mathematician? 

And, they say it very softly. 

[Laughter.] 

And I say, yes; and I am at the grocery store or I am at a 5K. 

I am in the community, and they see me in my everydayness, not 

looking like Einstein. 

And, having the platform to speak about what it is that I do and 

the applications, and I also chose NC State—this is another very 

important point—because they had a different route for me to take. 

I did not want to become a professor right away. 

Ultimately, I would like to be in the classroom but I wanted to 

apply my thinking, my skill set; and NC State had a program that 

was already in place that put the students out into the community 

in working with NIH in Research Triangle Park and all the other 

small firms that were in the area. 

So, if we can re-create that, I think that it would kind of change 

the culture and be the recitation of STEM topics. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you, Dr. Taylor. Excellent point. 

Ms. Wang. 

Ms. WANG. Thank you, Senator. I actually wanted to tackle that. 

What could be done now from a small business perspective. I grew 

up in China. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Is your button pressed? 

Ms. WANG. I am sorry. I am an immigrant from China. I started 

learning math early and it was fun for me to learn. I took algebra 

at fourth-grade, and I programmed a computer when I was 18—13 

I am sorry—games; and I had internship jobs placed via my school 

all summer, multiple summers. So, it was fun. 

I think the culture really made a difference. But the other point 

I want to make, as a government contractor, we are providing technology solutions to the Department of Defense intelligence community. We simply cannot find enough cleared engineers today. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Let us talk about your word ‘‘cleared.’’ You 

have used this several times before. Are you talking about a security clearance? 

Ms. WANG. Yes, ma’am. Security cleared, security clearance. 
23 

Chair LANDRIEU. And what is holding up the security clearance? 

Is it a backlog? 

Ms. WANG. It is a huge backlog, and last year we had a contract 

where we won with an intelligence agency. We could not hire people from outside of that agency because they require a unique, separate clearance level that they do not accept any other agencies 

same level. 

So, it was a very idiosyncratic process and they simply did not 

accept anybody else’s package. So, there was no pool. The only pool 

of potential employees was people already employed at that agency. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Can you tell us what agency that was? 

Senator RISCH. I do not think she can. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. All right. 

[Laughter.] 

No, that is true. All right. The staff will look into that and figure 

out if there is any way we can open that up but you have said that 

three times now, so I wanted to be responsive. You just cannot find 

enough cleared engineers. 

Ms. WANG. Engineer, yes. I think that process could be really improved. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Ms. Moneypenny. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. Thank you. So, a couple of comments. Since 

we keep talking about rocket scientists, I really have one. I am an 

astrophysicist by background. So, it is not always helpful actually 

to solving all the problems but rocket science is a good way to 

think about it. 

There are a couple of issues for us. You were talking a little bit 

about the caps and the H–1B visas. There is not a specific provision for small business to hire them so basically you are rushing 

just like everybody else, and if you do not have a staff of attorneys 

which obviously we do not as a small business—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. I want to really underscore this. I do not know 

if it is clear to everyone that in the current bill as drafted it is a 

first-come first-serve. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. That is right and that is the way it has always been. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And, is there any alliance of small business 

owners or startups who have a better idea of how that should be 

so small businesses in America have an opportunity to get some of 

the—— 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. Not that I am aware of. We have had to learn 

how to do the process ourselves completely, just because it is very 

expensive obviously hiring resources that know about these things 

and then obviously being able to describe the kinds of jobs that we 

are looking for which are very specific technologies or skill sets 

that we are trying to get. 

So, those are very difficult and it puts a lot of burden on us 

frankly. It is not just fees; it is burden. 

Senator RISCH. You know, on a short-term basis, what she is 

talking about is really, really critical to this country. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. Yes. 

Senator RISCH. We can talk about the long-term pipeline but for 

people that need them, that statistic that he gave where there are 

120,000 jobs created and we are graduating 40,000. 
24 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. Right. 

Senator RISCH. You know, I just found a way to employ another 

almost 100,000 people. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. That is right. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I know but the problem is what you have correctly identified as the long-term pipeline. It is important for us to 

get this solved. 

The short-term is need but the small businesses sitting at his 

table will not get any of those pieces. They will not get any so it 

is not going to be solved. I mean under the current draft of the bill, 

I doubt that any small business represented here is going to get 

any of those visas because they are all going to be snapped up by 

big companies that are already scheduled to do it, already know 

the process, and already have the resources to do it. 

So, if our Committee does not come up with some suggestions, 

I am not sure what is going to happen. Go ahead doctor, Dr. 

Kolvoord. 

Dr. KOLVOORD. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. 

I wanted to loop back to a short-term solution and give a more 

concrete example. I will be very brief. 

We are working at JMU with a different model. Camsie 

McAdams talked about dual enrollment and dual enrollment is 

where we help students in high school earn college credit but it has 

been very traditional and in very typical courses. 

We have taken a very different tack on dual enrollment and we 

have partnered with schools in Virginia to help students learn 

about geospatial technologies, such as GPS, geographic information 

systems, and remote sensing. And, when I leave here, I will be 

headed back to Loudoun County to see students present their end 

of year presentations. 

This is a very different kind of problem solving that students are 

doing particularly in this high-stakes testing regime. So, we are 

seeing students actually getting engaged with technology. One student actually learned Python Scripting on his own to be able to do 

his project. 

They are then coming out of high school ready to engage in college in a very different way. We have not received a single federal 

dollar to do this. 

We were able to create this program because there is a tuition 

flow from the dual enrollment. It would be very easy for universities across the country to begin this program in a variety of different technology areas, and I think it might be something that 

could start this flow of people. 

It is perhaps, to follow Dr. Taylor’s analogy, outside of the box 

just a little bit. We have been doing it for eight years, so we have 

some experience. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I am going to ask each of you for this Committee record to submit literally a one-page document about your 

best, fastest idea to solve this problem. Okay, any one-pager to the 

Committee before the close of the record and, Bob, if you would put 

that on your list, that would be terrific. 

Dr. Mundy. 
25 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Thank you. I just wanted to circle back also 

to the questions about the immediate needs of small businesses 

and to reiterate the importance of partnership. 

And, at least in working with the National Science Foundation, 

I will call your attention to four different programs and can give 

you more details later. 

It would require partnering with some local university or community college but then there could be resources that would be useful 

after the merit review process. 

One I mentioned earlier, the advanced technological education 

program. The second is one of our H–1B visa receipt-funded programs. It is called ITEST, Innovative Technology Experiences for 

Teachers and Students or for students and teachers, I guess. 

That is a program. It is part of what we call informal science 

education outside of school. It can involve summer opportunities, 

summer learning internships in companies and so forth as a way 

to begin to build the pipeline. 

And then, CREST which is Centers of Research Excellence in 

Science and Technology. This is a program for minority serving institutions but there is an option for partnering with small business 

and local industry in that program. 

Then finally, we have a program called Scholarships for Service 

to your point, which is about providing dollars to universities and 

community colleges actually to prepare students who can work in 

the cyber security workforce within government. 

So, what I want to do is go back and check on how the restrictions are relative to working with government contractors. But in 

any case, there is a set of students coming out of that program who 

are receiving scholarships and who are ready to meet security 

clearances. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Go ahead. 

Mr. UVIN. I just wanted to add an important resource, I think, 

for small businesses and local communities to be aware of, and it 

is our $1.1 billion investment in career and technical education. 

The money goes to States because States know better than us at 

the Federal level what to do with the money, and they can allocate 

it to school districts and post secondary education institutions to 

provide more technically oriented forms of education. 

Many of the States right now have encouraged local communities 

to create strong partnerships with small businesses and large businesses and have moved into the STEM areas. 

There are some exciting examples about emerging early college 

high schools that are focused on the STEM fields that deliver not 

only a high school credential to students but also an associate degree and a series of industry certifications and a job. 

So, I would be happy—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Is this the Carl Perkins block grants? 

Mr. UVIN. Yes. People are now—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. $1.4 billion that the Federal Government sends 

to—— 

Mr. UVIN. $1.1 billion right now. 

Chair LANDRIEU. $1.1 billion, the Office of Vocational and Adult 

Education. 
26 

It would be very interesting for this record if you would submit 

what you think are the top three to five programs in the country, 

because I find this very hit or miss in my experience. 

I think some states do a good job with spending this money, 

other states do not. You know, if it was being spent really well over 

many years because we have been getting it out, we would not 

have the skills gap that we are talking about. 

So, you have to acknowledge the reason we have a skills gap, I 

mean, I think you have to accept that we have not been spending 

our resources and our allocations; and our education system is failing to produce the domestic workforce. 

So, you know, moving around the edges is going to help but it 

is not really going to be transformative. What has to happen, I 

think, and we are not the Education Committee, but for small businesses that need workers I think we, our Committee, has to advocate for a more transformational approach which is what I am 

thinking I am hearing. 

So, if you could give us the three or four best examples of the states that are using part of this $1.1 billion, I mean, really hard 

data to show excellence, I think it might help. 

All right. Go ahead. 

Senator RISCH. Madam Chairman, Mr. Uvin, when you go back, 

you said something we do not hear in Washington, D.C., very often. 

Put it as the opening statement in your policy manual, the states 

know how to spend this money better than the Federal Government does. 

There are a few of us here that believe that, and that is absolutely critical to us. The complaint I get most of all at home is the 

strings that the Federal Government attaches whenever money 

comes, particularly from the Department of Education. That has 

been very controversial. 

Mr. UVIN. Just a quick response if I may, Chair Landrieu. Last 

year, we launched our blueprint for transforming career and technical education in this country, and it is exactly to address some 

of the concerns that you have raised in your comment. 

One of the things we are advancing is a greater responsiveness 

to what the real needs of businesses are, a closer collaboration with 

our colleagues in workforce and economic development at the state 

level and a stronger role for states to work with our educational institutions so that they understand where the real business needs 

are, where the emerging sectors are. 

We would be happy to share that document with all the members 

present here. 

Senator RISCH. I am glad you realize that. We have realized that 

in Idaho a long time ago. We have between the State and our businesses in Idaho we have a strong, strong working partnership. 

In fact, we pride ourselves at asking them to come in and say, 

what do you need? As a result of that, I can give you all kinds of 

examples. Particularly our technical colleges can respond quickly to 

a request from small businesses, medium-size businesses, even big 

businesses to provide a program that trains people for them. 

So, we have known this for a long, long time and at least in 

Idaho we are very nimble at that and very good at it. I am glad 

that realization has come to Washington, D.C. 
27 

Chair LANDRIEU. Ms. McAdams and Ms. Fiala. 

Ms. MCADAMS. Thank you. I just wanted to highlight that from 

the members of this Committee there are several states that are 

part of a coalition called the STEMx and these are an organization 

of states that have taken a statewide and state-focused approach 

towards STEM learning. I think you asked earlier, Chair Landrieu, 

for examples of regions where this is going well so I would say we 

could look to members—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. What are some of those states? 

Ms. MCADAMS. I can read them off. So, Washington State, North 

Carolina, Idaho, and Kentucky are all part of the STEMx, plus 

Michigan, Maryland, Massachusetts, and Florida all have significant efforts at the state level. 

In fact, I just spoke with the people from Michigan STEM. They 

are having a meeting in two weeks in Detroit around business opportunities, called Michigan STEM and I provided an opening 

statement for them on how our proposals would help support what 

they are doing in Detroit to try and revitalize the workforce there. 

I also looked to the states where I could not find a statewide effort; so, for example, in Louisiana, where in Jefferson Parish there 

is the Patrick Taylor Science and Technology Academy, which was 

formed as a partnership between local businesses and the school. 

But I looked in their course catalog and they are not offering a 

single computer science class. So I think that there is an opportunity for us to take some measures to inspire students in the nontraditional fields. 

And, I think Dr. Taylor’s point was very, very important about 

the idea of informal learning and engagement because there is not 

always a path for teaching a course on how to create apps for 

money within the regular courses needed for graduation. 

But that could easily go along with what Senator Shaheen talked 

about with First Robotics, in the after-school space, in the summer 

time, on the weekends, because the rocketry challenges and the design challenges are building those skills. 

And, just last week they had the ‘‘Rockets on the Hill’’ event. I 

spoke to that group and I talked about how the partnership model 

is so incredibly important because what happens is professionals 

like Dr. Taylor and Ms. Moneypenny and Mr. Goodman come in 

and help support the teachers and maybe do not have those rocketry design skills and I think that is a way to also encourage meaningful partnerships. 

So, I am happy to connect with folks about the work of STEMx 

but STEMx is only one opportunity. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Well, that is wonderful; and if you would send 

that information to the Committee because what we are hearing is 

that some states are doing a really good job and some states are 

not. 

Not every state does a great job and not every state’s programs 

are better than the Federal Government. What you are saying is 

some are and some are not, and I would tend to agree with that. 

Ms. Moneypenny. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. Thank you. A couple of points I want to raise. 

Small technology firms are really like the bellwether for the industry. So, I would really want to encourage, when we were talking 
28 

about partnering with business, that there are specific provisions 

that the educational institutions have to talk to small businesses 

because otherwise the temptation in those programs is basically to 

go out to the largest employers in the area because that is what 

people usually do. That is the way they usually respond, right. But 

no, specifically go out and canvass what small businesses are looking for. 

And then, the other point I want to talk about is this thinking 

about partnering with other large companies that have certification 

sort of programs. So, it is the Microsofts, the IBMs. Those certifications mean something in the industry. 

A lot of times small businesses are already serving large companies, and so getting enterprise sort of certifications, serving enterprise technologies, I am sure you guys are working with them. So, 

having those certification programs maybe as part of some of those 

educational things that we are teaching and that actually helps us 

to have those people who are informed on the workforce side. They 

have certifications. 

So, even if they do not graduate, they still have something that 

helps them become a productive member of the workforce and that 

has value in the workforce from an engineering standpoint. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. Our Committee has reached out to 

Microsoft and to some of these larger companies because of this. 

We see them as partners just like the way I see as Chair, the Federal Government as a partner and we would like to make it a better partner, a more efficient partner. 

I also recognize some of these very large technology companies 

can be part of the solution of helping us to reach small businesses, 

et cetera, et cetera. So, thank you. 

Senator Shaheen and then I will get you, Ms. Mooney. 

Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you, Senator Landrieu, and I am sorry. 

Since I had to go away for a little bit, I may have missed some of 

the discussion. So, I am not sure if you have gotten into the immigration legislation that is being discussed or not. 

But it is my understanding that it addresses STEM in a couple 

of ways. One is by increasing the number of H–1B visas which has 

been an issue for a number of high-tech businesses in my State of 

New Hampshire. 

But it also sets up a fund to help support STEM workers in various ways and STEM education. And, I wonder if there are any 

small business people on the panel who have had any experiences 

that you think would be helpful as you are looking at either the 

H–1B visa program or as you think about a STEM fund and how 

that might be used. 

And then, I had a specific question also for Dr. Ferrini-Mundy, 

who I understand your brother is from New Hampshire. So, that 

is very nice. I know him very well. He used to be the mayor of 

Portsmouth. So, it is very nice to have you here. 

Can you talk about what the Science Foundation is currently 

doing on STEM education and how the STEM fund that is being 

talked about in the immigration bill might be helpful to those efforts? 

Chair LANDRIEU. Excellent questions. Thank you. Who wants to 

respond? What anybody? Go ahead, Mr. Goodman. 
29 

Mr. GOODMAN. I wanted to speak specifically to the visa process 

for a small company. To quote my CEO, he was very excited to talk 

to the IRS after he got off the phone with the immigration office. 

[Laughter.] 

Chair LANDRIEU. That is not very good. But go ahead. 

Mr. GOODMAN. It cost us, we have done a total of four. One of 

them was easy but across the board has cost us somewhere between $25- and $35,000 with special counsel, educating ourselves, 

making mistakes. 

Senator SHAHEEN. For each one? 

Mr. GOODMAN. For each one. 

Senator SHAHEEN. Wow. 

Mr. GOODMAN. 40 to 80 hours of man time. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Right. 

Mr. GOODMAN. Now, contrast that to paying $40- or $50,000 to 

a recruiter and not having to deal with any of those complexities. 

We have actually resolved not to go forward with any more H–1Bs 

to solve our problem. 

And, in mitigating, I actually go out to lunch with one key programmer that we cannot find a parallel to every two weeks and fix 

anything that upsets him because we cannot afford to lose him. 

Senator SHAHEEN. Wow. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Of all of what I have heard this morning, Senator Shaheen and Senators, this concerns me the most. I mean, we 

are getting ready to pass, potentially pass an immigration bill with 

an H–1B visa program that is probably not going to work for any 

small business in the country. 

I mean, this is a very interesting, I mean, I do not know. Is this 

what I am hearing? Now, I say ‘‘any’’. That is broad but let us just 

clarify. For businesses under 50 to 100 people, because they are not 

going to be able to navigate, and you, Mr. Goodman, hire how 

many people? 

Mr. GOODMAN. We have over 35 people now. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thirty-five people. 

So, if it costs them that much money, and from what I understand, Senator Shaheen, there is no quota set aside for small business. There is no special express lane for small business. 

We may want to think about creating that before this bill gets 

out of here. I do not know the pros and cons but we are exploring 

that today. 

But what I am pretty clear about is none of those H–1B visas 

are going to get in the hands of a business got 50, or very few, will 

get in the hands of businesses that are 50 or more. 

Yet, that is where all the patents rest, not all. That is where the 

majority of patents rest. That is where most of the innovation rests 

and that is where most of the new job creation is. 

So, this is a very interesting, you know, line of thinking and discussion we have going on here. Did you get your second question 

answered? 

Senator SHAHEEN. No. 

Chair LANDRIEU. About the National Science Foundation. 

Chair LANDRIEU. The National Science Foundation. What are you 

all doing? 
30 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Of course, thanks for the question, Senator 

Shaheen. 

The National Science Foundation has been engaged in STEM 

education since its founding. So, we have 60 plus years of experience there. 

Our budget spent on STEM education is about $1.2 billion, all 

spent through competitive merit-reviewed grants, the majority of 

that in the directorate that I lead, Education and Human Resources. 

We fund in the areas of STEM learning and learning environments. So, we are interested in projects and proposals that will improve STEM learning and that will provide us with the evidence 

for how to do that well so that we can then become a place that 

provides these well-tested models for use broadly across the country and to scale, in particular in partnership with the Department 

of Education and other agencies. 

We also fund and have had a long tradition of funding in the 

area of broadening participation and improving the engagement of 

groups that have traditionally been underrepresented in STEM. 

Then, we are increasingly engaged in sharpening our focus on 

preparing the STEM workforce. We fund, as we say, pre-K through 

gray kinds of projects so for the general public, for schools, for inside and out of school in all of these STEM fields; and we do this 

through about 30 separate programs. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Could I add something though? When you said 

that, Senator, one of the issues, and this comes really from small 

businesses that need to speak up. 

Ms. Mooney, I will get to you in a minute. 

We have to be careful about what we are measuring. If we are 

measuring just who graduates with what degree, you know, we 

may be spending a lot of money getting just like you said, Ms. Taylor or Ms. Wang, people with degrees. 

But having a degree and having skills, the right skills, are two 

different things. And, I think that is what our small businesses are 

telling us is that you can have all the chemistry majors you want, 

all the, you know, math majors you want; but they have got to be 

math majors with the skills that our entrepreneurs in America 

need today; and that is a question we should constantly ask ourselves. 

Ms. Mooney. 

Ms. MOONEY. Thank you. I just wanted to let members of the 

Committee and the rest of the roundtable participants know of a 

study that the Micron Foundation is engaged in with the University of Idaho, and we are talking about the factors that influence 

family, a student’s ability to go into a STEM career and excel at 

a STEM career. It is a longitudinal study. 

There is data out there if you just Google University of Idaho Micron STEM Study, and it provides a little bit of information on 

what those factors are and perhaps a multi-partnership approach 

to community, parent, teachers, and students to get them excited 

about STEM education. 

Senator SHAHEEN. Can I just follow up on that? 

Chair LANDRIEU. Go right ahead. Yes. 
31 

Senator SHAHEEN. One of the things that I think is so interesting 

about some of the hands on programs that kids can participate in 

is that some of the data that I have seen shows that they have a 

higher percentage of actually going into STEM fields because they 

have a chance to work with mentors. They have a chance to see 

what the opportunities are in those fields and they have a higher 

graduation rate in those fields and then they get out and they actually go to work in STEM fields. 

I just wondered if any of you have, if you are far enough in your 

study to see if that is what the data you are seeing is showing or 

if anybody else has any experience with that kind of data that 

shows that that really does make a difference? 

Chair LANDRIEU. Could you respond, Ms. Mooney, do you know? 

Ms. MOONEY. We are in preliminary findings but it does seem 

that project-based learning, a teacher with significant content 

knowledge, a family that supports math and talks positively about 

it instead of saying things like, I was not good at math, you will 

never need this type of thing are a factor. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Teachers that have had experience in the private sector, for a math teacher to come right out of school and just 

be in the classroom teaching math as opposed to being in a company applying math and then going into teaching which gets back, 

Governor, to, and these governors sitting on either side, you know, 

makes me be even a stronger advocate for alternative certification 

for teachers, to try to get people in front of students that have had 

real world experience either building a small business as an engineer themselves or as a mathematician themselves or working in 

a small or large company and then going into the classroom and 

explaining how these subjects that are very important and exciting 

and it was definitely what the country needs. 

So, this is a real challenge before our country. Doctor, and we are 

going to end in five minutes. I am going to get you and then we 

are going to do wrap-ups. 

Dr. KOLVOORD. So, very briefly to two points the first is to Senator Shaheen’s. Dr. Olga Pierrakos, who is a faculty member in our 

engineering program and supported by the National Science Foundation, has done affirmative research along this line. 

And, she is finding that those students that have those handson experiences are starting to more identify themselves at a younger age as engineers or scientists and it seems to carry forward to 

college. 

The other point I would make is an amen to Ms. Moneypenny 

about the connection with small businesses. In two instances at 

JMU, we have reached out and redesigned academic programs towards more generalist programs because the business and industry 

were telling us that is what they wanted. They wanted students 

with strong STEM skills but that could apply them in a variety of 

contexts. 

They were not trained only as physicists, chemists, or mechanical 

engineers; and our students have found a lot of traction in the 

startup world and in small business because of this different skill 

set that students coming from more traditional programs do not 

have. 
32 

Chair LANDRIEU. And I think our universities have to really 

wake up here and figure out how to think out of the box like you 

said, Dr. Taylor, and really stepped up to get this workforce in 

America moving in the right direction. 

Ms. Fiala, and then we are going to have a one minute wrap ups 

or 30 second wrap-ups from everybody. Go ahead. 

Ms. FIALA. A couple of quick points. The point on contextualized 

learning, the ability to kind of test out what you are learning from 

the classroom to the workplace is not just important for K through 

12 and academics. 

We are finding that with adult learners, people who are going 

back to retraining, this is extraordinarily important. 

So, in the competitive grants that we award under the H–1B 

technical skill training program and frankly in our other grants, 

we have emphasized that people think outside the box in terms of 

building partnerships between community colleges and employers. 

And, we think it is important to have states there but we really 

believe that it needs to be employers at the regional or local level 

that need to articulate the skills and be engaged in the design of 

training and offer these work-based opportunities whether it is internship or a cooperative education program or at a secondary level 

it could be much shorter exposure to work. 

But to be able to make sure what is learned in a classroom is 

tested and valued in work, and we are identifying promising practices through H–1B skill grant programs with our partners. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And how much is in that grant program this 

upcoming year? What is proposed for your grants? 

Ms. FIALA. I can tell you what we have spent. So far in the last two rounds it is about $342 million in two rounds of H–1B technical skill grants competitions. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. 

Ms. FIALA. And the nice thing about this is to be eligible to compete it has to be a partnership either of a business or a group of 

businesses or a trade organization and a post secondary education 

institution and the public workforce system so that you have the 

right partners at the table to really change and make a difference. 

Chair LANDRIEU. That is great and I would like some more information on that. 

We are going to go 30 seconds, real quick. Anything you did not 

say that you want to get on the record. The record will be open 

until June 6. And Senator Shaheen and Senator Risch had to leave. 

But go ahead, Ms. Wang. 

Ms. WANG. Thank you, Senator. I just want to make a point, enhance a point about connecting small businesses to this program. 

We need the help now; and we are, in fact, with JMU, we did an 

innovative partnership informal because we have been looking for 

security-cleared enterprise architects which no university actually 

produced until just a few years ago. 

JMU is one of them. Penn State is another one. We connected 

with JMU informally and has started to build a pipeline for our 

business. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Dr. Taylor. 

Ms. TAYLOR. Thank you. I want to thank everyone for the opportunity to be present and to share my perspective and I think it is 
33 

very important that we go beyond this roundtable here, that we all 

continue the dialog because a lot of good ideas came about and it 

needs to be transformational as the Senator stated. And so, I would 

suggest and encourage all of us to put our thinking caps on and 

to continue to think outside of the box and to make STEM a part 

of our everyday life and culture and to not make it so monumental 

as being, and to demystify it. So, thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. I am going to ask the staff to circulate to all of you the e-mails and contact information from all of 

you which is probably readily available on the Internet, but we will 

make it easy for you so that you all can stay in touch. I think this 

would be a good group of advisers for one another. 

Ms. Moneypenny. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. So, just two points to wrap up. Again, thank 

you for the opportunity. I really appreciate it. 

The other point is really how are we going to do the communications to small business, because I hear 226 programs. I hear about 

grants. I hear about all of this stuff but I really would like to know 

how are you going to communicate that to small businesses. 

We are already busy, never mind about fighting the visa process. 

We are also busy doing those things as well as actually trying to 

hire staff and run our own businesses. So, how do we get to know 

about these new programs that the government is going to bring 

forward, you know, we really encourage that. 

Then the other part is really just in terms of partnership and 

getting the needs of our businesses into the curriculum. A lot of 

times, you know, it is like when we were talking before it is about, 

you know, 13-year-old people can build applications right now. 

They have the skill set. Some of them can learn if they have the 

willingness to learn from the Internet right now. 

Sometimes colleges are still teaching FORTRAN, which is from 

a language that nobody cares about and never will probably ever 

again. 

And so, so many people are learning these skills but it is like 

that is what kills you. That is why you do not want to graduate. 

If you know how to build an app for iTunes already, learning 

FORTRAN is going to put you to sleep. You are just going to get 

out there as fast as you can. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Can we find out how many universities are still 

teaching, what is it, FORTRAN? I would like the staff to find out 

and I would like a list of which ones they are. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. Yes. 

Ms. KOLVOORD. Not ours. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. I would like to know that. Go ahead. 

Mr. GOODMAN. I would like to thank you. This has been a tremendous experience getting to participate in this. You illustrated 

some parts of the problems that I did not understand with the comparison to nursing. I think that was excellent. 

I realize that all of the greatest people that I work with are all 

working. They are not out teaching, and I think that that is a big 

part of the problem. 

But I also just wanted to reiterate that we do not just teach driving to people that want to become race car drivers and that it is 

these common skills and this passion. We have a thing in our com-
34 

pany which is what I call the ‘‘I made this’’ moment and that is 

possible with this technology and that is when you transfer accountability of the outcome to the child and I think that is really 

when it comes to light. 

So again thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you so much. It is so refreshing to hear 

your words and thoughts. 

Ms. Mooney. 

Ms. MOONEY. Thank you. My company is no longer a small business but it certainly once was and it grew from the basement that 

Senator Risch talked about. We still are the only company of our 

type that produces and manufactures in the United States and that 

is the talent that was here that has helped us grow. So, our foundation is still very involved in helping kids become engineers and 

scientists in the future so our companies and other small businesses can continue to grow. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And how large is your company now and when 

did you start? 

Ms. MOONEY. We started in 1978. We now have 20,000 employees in nine different countries. 

Ms. MONEYPENNY. Amazing. And you have helped to grow your 

own pipeline in Idaho? 

Ms. MOONEY. Absolutely. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Great. 

Ms. Belsky. 

Ms. BELSKY. Thank you again for having us here as well. 

What I am realizing at the end of this discussion is that we in 

the startup community have supported the broader immigration 

bill and I think not fully realizing where it might not help us. 

But one positive thing is I think until you have an organization 

like Engine Advocacy there have not really been that many organizations that pulled together the tech startup community and made 

them, given them a connection to Washington. 

So, I look forward to connecting with my colleagues on the panel 

here and bringing them into our organization but hopefully we can 

actually be a channel so that when the Committee does come up 

with other more specific ideas, we can disseminate them to the 

startup community which is sort of cheering in general but, I think, 

not really realizing how to effectuate the program. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Exactly. And you will be cheering yourself to no 

visas if we do not do something about this. 

Go ahead, Ms. Fiala. 

Ms. FIALA. Thank you, Senator, and I was madly taking notes 

while people were talking. So, it has been very useful. We are getting ready to think through our next round of H–1B technical skill 

training grants. So, I appreciate that. 

We are trying to help not only students but also adults, vulnerable long-term unemployed, under represented groups acquire 

skills in high-skill occupations including STEM. So, this was very 

useful to us. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. 

Ms. MCADAMS. Thank you so much. This was an incredibly diverse group of people but I think we all have the same common 

purpose. So, one of the best things for me at this table is to be a 
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female in STEM surrounded by females in STEM who are taking 

it home to the kitchen table and talking with their little girls about 

this. 

In 10 years of teaching I kept thinking I was doing a really great 

job but the truth is we all have to do a really great job and we all 

have to inspire our students and I think that the Department of 

Education’s launch into leadership in this space represents the belief that schools and teachers and districts cannot do this alone, 

that we really need partners. 

So I look forward to working with all of you and hope that you 

will feel free to e-mail me with ideas after we leave this room. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And I would just hope to add that you look to 

businesses like Micron, big businesses that could anchor that effort 

in each state, because I think you will find very good partners in 

the business community that can help the Department of Education hone and craft what their businesses need. 

And if you could identify two or three businesses in each state. 

For the Department of Education, it would seem to me that would 

be a piece that is probably missing and probably needs to be fixed. 

Ms. MCADAMS. Thank you. 

Mr. UVIN. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and also 

thank you for your leadership around all of these issues. I just 

want to underscore the importance of creating pathways that start 

early and that we can only do that if we engage our business partners actively in this. 

Those of you who are familiar with some our most recent reform 

proposals know that we are advancing an empowered role for businesses in our education reform work and there is more of that coming. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. 

Ms. FERRINI-MUNDY. Thank you so much, Senator, for this session. It has been fascinating and energizing. One thing we did not 

get a lot of time to talk about, but now that we are going to be able 

to contact each other I look forward to doing so, is the particulars 

of the competencies and skills and knowledge that are needed in 

different sectors by different types of businesses. 

That is the sort of thing that I think we are all interested in, in 

understanding how to prepare people with those competencies and 

skills and how to measure them well because back to the point 

about it is not just about numbers of people graduating; it is really 

about whether they are graduating with the sort of quality experiences that enable them to really perform in the workplace. 

So, thank you again for the opportunity and the NSF looks forward to being a partner with you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. Doctor. 

Dr. KOLVOORD. Senator Landrieu, thank you very much for a 

very stimulating roundtable. Thanks to all the participants. 

There are institutions of higher education like James Madison 

University who are willing to be flexible, who want to innovate, 

who want to be responsive; and I think part of our job is to reach 

out and continue to share the lessons both the positives and the 

negatives of the experiences that we have had as we think about 

how to address these issues. 
36 

This is a systemic problem. But the assessment piece that Dr. 

Ferrini-Mundy mentioned is also one that is critically important for 

us in higher education to actually show that there is value added 

to the experience and we are working hard on that at JMU as well. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Well, thank you and our roundtable is adjourned. We really appreciate it and the record will be open until 

June 6. 

[The participant information follows:] 

[Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 
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Æ