1

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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plan for 7


### Existing Power Plants 8

9

10

11



### 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. 12



### Wednesday, July 30, 2014 13

14



### Room 1153 B 15


### William Jefferson Clinton East Building 16



### 1201 Constitution Avenue Northwest 17


### Washing ton, D.C. 20004 18

19

20

21

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### PAGE 1



### EPA PANEL 1: 9 2



### WILLIAM NIEBLING, Chair, EPA 3



### MISHA ADAMANTIADES, EPA 4



### MATT COLIP, EPA 5

6



### EPA PANEL 2: 133 7



### JIM DEMOCKER, Chair, Director 8


### Office of Policy Analysis and Review 9



### JIM KETHAM

- COLWILL, Office of Pol icy 10


### Analysis and Review 11



### GLENN SHERIFF, National Center for 12



### Environmental Economics and 13


### the Office of Policy 14

15



### EPA PANEL 3: 340 16



### PETER TSIRIGOTIS, EPA, Chair 17



### BILL IRVING, EPA 18



### BILL STEVENS, EPA 19


### Morning Session 9 20



### Afternoon Session 133 21



### Ev ening Session 340 223

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### I N D E X 1



### PAGE 2


### BEN TOPIEL, student George Washington Univ. 15 3



### ZOE BERKERY, Business Council for Stable 19 4



### Energy 5


### KRISTIN COOK, Montgomery County Resident 25 6


### JOELLE NOVEY, Interfaith Power and Light 29 7


### MALLORY YATES, West Virg inia Coal Forum 34 8


### CONGRESSMAN DAVID MCKINLEY, West Virginia 37 9


### BRIDGETT CHADWICK, Wyncote, PA Resident 41 10



### CECILIA CALVO, U.S. Conference of Catholic 43 11


### Bishops 12


### BRIAN LEVY, Washington, D.C. Resident 49 13



### STARLA YEH, National Resources Defense Council 52 14



### WALTON SHEPHERD, Natural Resources Defense 57 15



### Council 16


### KELLY BENJAMIN, Physicians for Social 62 17


### Responsibility 18


### GENE KARPINSKI, League of Conservation Voters 66 19



### MATTHEW MARTIN, We Act for Environmental 72 20



### Justice 21



### NIKKI SILVESTRI, Green for A ll 75 224

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### I N D E X (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### KATHERINE STAINKEN, Solar Energy Industry 79 3



### Association 4


### ASHLEY GOFF, Church of the Pilgrims 85 5



### STACY DAVIS, Center for Clean Air 90 6



### JOHN NOEL, Clean Water Acti on 95 7



### JIM LYON, National Wildlife Federation 100 8



### ELLEN BARFIELD, Baltimore Resident 104 9



### MONICA WARD, Eskabubble 108 10



### BRADEN BOULANGER, TransAlta 113 11


### HIRUY HADGU, Nuclear Engineer 116 12


### DAWONE ROBINSON, Chesapeake Climate Acti on 118 13



### at Work 14


### ED ABLARD, Organizing for Action 122 15


### ELLIOTT LONG, Small Business Majority 126 16



### DR. JALONNE WHITE

- NEWSOME, We Act 139 17


### CHERLY PYRCH, Feldman Presbyterian Church 144 18



### REVEREND MARJANI DELE, Interfaith Power and 148 19


### Lig ht 20



### EMMETT MCKINNEY, Sierra Club 153 21



### DONNA MCDOWELL, Sierra Club 158 225

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### I N D E X (continued) 1



### PAGE 2


### LIZ SCHMITT, Sojourners 162 3


### POUNE SABERI, University of P.A. Hospital 168 4



### ELLEN ZIESENHENE, Environment America 174 5


### DAVID KEPLEY, Providence Presbyterian Church 177 6


### EVA MUSZYNSKI, Virginia Resident 182 7



### JOSE AGUTO, Friends Committee on National 185 8


### Legislation 9



### REV. DARRIEL HARRIS, Baltimore Food & Faith 191 10



### REV. RICHARD CIZIK, In terfaith Power & Light 195 11


### MARY MINETTE, Evangelical Lutheran Church in 200 12



### America 13


### SARAH VIA, University of Maryland 206 14


### GARY EWART, American Thoracic Society 212 15



### TRICIA BRUCKBAUER, Creation Justice 217 16



### Ministries 17



### ANGUS CRANE, North A merican Insulation 222 18



### Manufacturers’ Association. 19



### CYNTHIA ADAMS, Concerned citizen 226 20

21

226

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### I N D E X (Continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### LARRY MONROE, Research and Environmental 233 3


### Affairs at Southern Company 4



### ANTHONY VANCE, Bahai O ffice of 238 5



### Public Affairs 6



### SARAH SAYLOR, Concerned citizen 244 7



### LISA VAN SUSTEREN, Concerned citizen 248 8


### MAYLINE MOENCH, Utah Physicians for a 253 9


### Healthy Environment 10



### JESSICA ECKDISH, Sierra Club 258 11



### BARBARA SCHLACHTER, Episcopal priest,Iowa 263 12



### RIANNA ECKEL, Concerned citizen 268 13



### LIA KURIHARA, Environment America 272 14



### SUSAN GUY, Christian Church, 275 15


### Disciples of Christ 16



### ISABELLA LEVY, Sierra Club, D.C. 280 17



### KARISSA GERHKE, Concerned citizen 285 18



### BA RBARA GOTTLIEB, Physicians for Social 289 19


### Responsibility 20


### GERARD NEELY, Physicians for Social 295 21


### Responsibility 227

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### I N D E X (Continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### ADAM CARPENTER, Concerned citizen 299 3



### DOUG O’MALLEY, Environment New Jersey 303 4



### KRISTIN BARKER, Concerned citizen 310 5



### HUGH PITCHER, Concerned citizen 314 6



### RODNEY SOBIN, Research & Regulatory 319 7


### Affairs, The Alliance to Save Energy 8


### DONALD GOLDBERG, Climate Law & Policy 325 9


### Project here in Washington 10



### GREG BERTELSEN, National Association 329 11



### of Manufacturers 12



### LAUREN VAN VLIET, Concerned citizen 335 13



### CARL GLINCENSTEN, Concerned citizen 346 14



### AMANDA RONES, Concerned citizen 349 15


### ANN DIXON, Protecting Our Waters. 351 16



### KEITH SCHUE, Sustai nable Oswego 356 17



### RICHARD NUNNO, DC Chapter of 363 18



### the Sierra Club 19



### DALE LOUDA, CHP Association 367 20



### TONYA WINDERS, Allergy & Asthma Network 372 21



### SHEILA HOLMAN, NCDENR 376 228

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### I N D E X (Continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### DR. ANA PRADO S, University of Maryland, 382 3


### Baltimore County 4



### LINDA SILVERSMITH, League of Women Voters 386 5



### of Maryland 6



### TYSON SLOCUM, Public Citizen’s 391 7


### Energy and Climate Program 8



### JAYDEE HANSON, Caretakers for God’s 397 9



### Creation 10



### ERIK BACKUS, Lutherans R estoring Creation 403 11


### SOPHIE GOLONE, Religious Action Center 408 12



### of Reform Judaism 13


### EUGEN M. TRISKO, ESQ., United Mine 413 14



### Workers of America 15



### JIM WEYLIE, Concerned citizen 418 16



### FERNANDO CAZARES, Concerned citizen 421 17



### BRENDA MULLER, Concerned citi zen 425 18



### ROBERT CLEAVES, Biomass Power Association 426 19



### JACKIE PATTERSON, Concerned citizen 429 20

21

229

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MORNING SESSION 1


### MR. NIEBLING: Good morning. My name is 2


### William Niebling and I’m one of the chairs of 3


### today’s public hearing so thank you for coming 4



### today and joining me on the panel this morning 5


### are Misha Adamantiades and Matt Colip. We’re 6


### here today to listen to your comments on two 7


### proposed rules to reduce to carbon pollution from 8



### power plants. 9


### As a quick aside, we have two people here 10



### who I think are ready to speak, and so we’ll do 11



### that and if we have more we’ll continue. And if 12


### not we’ll just take a brief recess. 13



### EPA announced both of these proposed 14



### rules on June 2nd of 2014. These rules deal with 15


### power plants, which are the largest source of 16



### carbo n pollution in the United States, accounting 17


### for roughly one third of all domestic greenhouse 18


### gas emissions. 19


### The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 20


### Power Plan for existing power plants. This 21


### proposal consists of two main parts, state 2210

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### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from the 1


### power plants, and guidelines to help states 2


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. The 3


### proposal gives states flexibility in determining 4


### how to meet their goals. The states will choose 5


### what goes into their plans to show how they will 6



### achieve the needed reductions and meet their 7



### goals by 2030. 8


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 9



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 10


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 11


### set emissions limits for two groups of pow er 12


### plants, those that make physical or operational 13


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 14


### achievable hourly rate of emissions, and those 15



### that replace components to such an extent that 16



### the new components exceed 50 percent of the 17


### capital cost of an entire ly new comparable 18


### facility. 19


### If you'd like more details on either of 20



### these proposed rules there are fact sheets 21


### available near the registration desk. 2211

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### Today's hearing is one of four public 1


### hearings across the country this week on the two 2



### proposed rules. We've had tremendous interest in 3


### each of the hearings and I'd like to thank you 4


### for taking time out of your day today to join us 5



### and share your comments. 6


### We have a lot of people signed up to 7


### speak today who hopefully will come to speak, and 8



### we want to he ar from all of you. So before we 9


### get started I'd like to go through a few 10


### housekeeping items and ground rules to make sure 11


### today's hearing went smoothly. 12


### First, please be sure that you've checked 13


### in at the registration desk, even if you're not 14


### planning t o speak today. And if you signed up to 15


### speak online or by phone and haven't yet told us 16



### that you're here, please step out to the 17


### registration desk and let the EPA staff there 18


### know that you've arrived. 19


### Second, if you're a speaker you were 20


### given a room let ter when you checked in, Room A 21


### or Room B. This is Room B. So please make sure 2212

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### you're in the right room. 1


### All right. So here's how the hearing 2


### will work today. I will call speakers up in 3


### pairs and when your name is called, please come 4



### to the table he re at the front of the room. When 5



### I call on you to speak please state your name and 6


### spell it, which will help the court reporter 7


### immensely. 8



### Your comments will be transcribed and 9



### included in the record of comments on the 10


### proposed rule. Each speaker wil l have five 11


### minutes to give comments. We have a light here 12


### to let you know how much time you have left to 13


### speak. When the light turns from green to yellow 14


### that means you have one minute remaining. When 15


### it turns red, that's a signal to wrap up your 16



### testi mony. 17


### When you're finished speaking please 18


### remain at the tarble until the person next to you 19


### has completed his or her testimony. We are here 20


### to listen to you today, however one of the panel 21


### members may ask you questions to clarify your 2213

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### comments. 1



### I wil l then call up the next pair of 2



### speakers and so on and so forth. If you've 3


### brought a written copy of your testimony, please 4


### give that to the staff at the registration desk 5



### before you leave today. 6



### Because we have a large number of people 7


### who have signed u p to speak today, and to be fair 8


### to everyone, we may have to strictly enforce the 9


### five minute limit. If you have additional 10


### comments you would like to make you can submit 11


### them in writing and I can assure you that EPA 12


### gives just as much consideration to co mments we 13


### receive in writing as we do to comments we 14


### receive at public hearings like this one. 15


### So if you have more that you would like 16


### to say, please submit it. Your comments will be 17



### reviewed. 18


### There's still plenty of time to get 19



### written comments in a nd there are comment cards 20


### available at the registration desk. Written 21


### comments must be received by October 16th, 2014, 2214

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### and we'll put any comments submitted today in the 1


### official docket for the proposed rule. 2


### Instructions for submitting comments in 3



### oth er ways are available at the materials table 4


### near the registration desk. 5


### We are scheduled to go until about 8:00 6


### p.m. tonight. We'll take a lunch and dinner 7


### break so that everyone can get something to eat. 8


### Right now the lunch break is scheduled for arou nd 9


### noon and then a dinner break at 5:00 p.m. 10


### In addition, we may take occasional 11


### breaks during the sessions as needed. We'll keep 12



### you posted on that. 13


### If you have any questions during the day 14


### please see the staff at the registration desk and 15



### somebody will try to help you. 16


### Finally, I would like to ask each of you 17



### to please be respectful of everyone who speaks 18


### today. We have people with a wide variety of 19



### views in the audience and we want to hear from 20



### all of you. So that we can do that we ask that 21



### ever yone listen quietly. We want to hear from 2215

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### everyone who is signed up to speak. 1


### Thank you again for taking the time to 2



### share your comments on EPA's proposed rules. So 3



### let's get started. 4



### Here, at the moment, we have Zoe Berkery 5


### and Ben Topiel. I hope I g ot those right. And 6


### we will run the clock, but we obviously don't 7


### have a long line here, so please don't feel 8



### unusually stressed about

-- 9


### MS. BERKERY: All right. Mine should be 10


### right under five minutes. So, you can go ahead 11


### if you want. 12



### MR. TOPIEL: Thanks. Hello. My name is 13


### Ben Topiel. My last name is spelled T

- O

- P

- I

- E

- L. 14


### I'm a student at George Washington 15


### University, and I come here today in support of 16



### the Clean Power Plan. 17


### I grew up in Southern New Jersey and 18


### spending long summer days at the beach with my 19


### family are some of my happiest memories. And 20


### along with my sister, my cousins, and I, and my 21


### friends, we spent hours making elaborate 2216

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### fortresses in the sand and boogie boarding in the 1


### ocean. And in the mornings my father took us to 2



### our favo rite bakery for warm homemade donuts. 3



### But because with the increase of these 4


### severe storms and like Hurricane Sandy and other 5


### extreme weather effects like drought, so many 6


### other kids will not get to enjoy the same 7



### wonderful innocent memories that I did. 8



### Ex cuse me. And because of the air 9


### pollution and extreme heat my cherished childhood 10


### memories were also missed with darker, less happy 11


### ones. My mom, sister, and others in my family 12



### suffer from asthma, which has threatened their 13


### lives on many occasions. 14



### I still remember a particularly vivid 15


### time when I was eight years old and I was at the 16


### shore with my family and my mom began to wheeze, 17



### and soon she could barely breathe. She was 18


### having a severe asthma attack and before long she 19


### was rushed to the hospital. Luckily she's okay, 20


### but sadly many other New Jersians share this 21


### story and statewide 500,000 adults and more than 2217

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### 200,000 children suffer from asthma. 1


### Besides being a New Jersian I also belong 2


### to a generation that is keenly aware of the 3



### realities of clima te change. At 10 years old I 4


### bought a book on global warming at my school book 5


### fair. I remember sitting in my bedroom reading 6


### about the science of the greenhouse effect, and 7


### how humans are causing changes to the climate in 8



### ways our Earth had never seen b efore. 9


### This type of story is not uncommon among 10


### people my age. My generation is not only 11


### educated on climate change but compelled to take 12


### the necessary action needed to address this grave 13


### challenge. We aren't growing up in a world 14


### endowed with a seemingl y infinite cheap energy 15


### supply, or one that is unaware of damaging 16


### consequences burning fossil fuels has for 17



### ourselves and the people we care about. 18


### We recognize that using renewable energy 19


### isn't just about protecting future generations 20


### from the perils of climate change, it's also 21


### about preventing our health today from other 2218

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### harmful pollutants, from carbon dioxide and other 1


### harmful pollutants spewing from fossil fuel fired 2



### power plants. 3


### And although the problems of climate 4


### change have moved firmly into th e present, its 5


### solutions provide a power opportunity to 6


### reenergize our economy, protect our citizens, and 7


### lead the world in innovation and social justice. 8



### The Clean Power Plan will also stimulate 9


### investments in efficiency and renewable energy 10



### sources suc h as wind and solar, and creating jobs 11


### of the future, and also building an energy system 12



### that is safer and more resilient. 13



### Fortunately we have the tools and dollars 14


### to tackle this challenge in climate change, yet 15


### corporate polluters and legislative inactio n 16


### obstruct these solutions from being implemented. 17


### That is why I strongly support the EPA for taking 18



### this action

-- for this action against climate 19


### change because it is not only a good first step 20


### in limiting carbon pollution, but it will also 21


### spark climat e action and innovation around the 2219

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### world. 1


### I urge the EPA to finalize the rule so 2



### that we can all have a healthier and more 3



### prosperous present and future. Thank you. 4



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Ben. Zoe. 5


### MS. BERKERY: Hi. My name is Zoe 6



### Berkery. That's Z

- O

- E and then B

- E

- R

- K

- E

- R

- Y. 7


### So thank you for the opportunity to 8


### participate in this public hearing on the 9


### Environmental Protection Agency's proposed Clean 10


### Power Plan for regulating carbon dioxide 11


### emissions from existing power plant sources. 12


### My name is Zoe Berkery and I am manager 13


### of federal policy for the Business Council for 14


### Sustainable Energy. 15



### The Business Council for Sustainable 16


### Energy is a coalition of companies and trade 17


### associations from the energy efficiency of 18



### renewable energy and natural gas se ctors, and 19


### also includes independent electric power 20


### producers and investor owned utilities. 21



### Founded in 1992, when the Council 2220

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### advocates for policies at the state, national, 1



### and international levels that increase the use of 2


### commercially available clean en ergy technologies, 3


### products, and services. 4



### The coalition's diverse business 5


### membership is united around the revitalization of 6


### the economy and the creation of a secure and 7


### sustainable energy future for America. 8


### Prior to the release of the proposed 9



### Clean P ower Plan BCSE has actively engaged with 10


### the EPA on the development of the regulation, 11


### including providing written comments in December 12



### 2013. 13



### BCSE applauds the EPA's release of the 14



### proposed Clean Power Plan. It demonstrates that 15


### the United States is pre pared to take meaningful 16


### steps to address climate change. Decisions made 17


### in corporate boardrooms and on main streets 18


### across the United States provide confidence that 19



### the business sector has never been better 20



### prepared than we are today to step up to the 21



### ch allenge of climate change and meet emissions 2221

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### reduction targets. 1


### The mix of energy supply is changing 2


### rapidly, with low carbon sources gaining market 3


### share. At the same time energy consumption is 4


### down, despite overall economic growth. This 5


### means that impl ementing the new limits on 6


### greenhouse gas emissions could be easier than 7



### some have suggested. 8


### According to the Sustainable Energy in 9


### America Fact Book from Bloomberg New Energy 10



### Finance and BCSE, the use of lower and CO carbon 11



### energy sources has grown. Nat ural gas production 12


### and consumption hit an all time high in 2013, and 13


### 94 percent of all new electric power capacity 14



### built in the U.S. since 1997 has come in the form 15



### of natural gas plants, or renewable energy 16



### facilities. 17



### Thus the use of these viable and 18



### af fordable clean energy technologies and the 19


### energy efficiency, renewable energy, and natural 20


### gas sectors offer commercially available options 21



### to reduce emissions. 2222

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### The Council would like to thank the EPA 1


### for using output based metrics in establishing 2



### the st andard and for adopting a system

- wide 3


### approach to compliance which will allow renewable 4


### energy, natural gas, and efficiency to play a 5


### role in helping states meet their emission 6


### reduction targets. 7


### BCSE strongly supports the inclusion of 8


### state flexibility i n the proposed rule. States 9


### have the freedom to craft their own compliance 10


### pathway to meet their state target which is 11


### critical for cost effective compliance. 12



### However, there are a number of areas on 13



### the proposed rule that the BCSE seeks further 14



### clarifica tion. For example, how will interstate 15


### energy imports and exports count towards meeting 16



### a state's target? 17


### In previous discussions with EPA 18


### officials it has been indicated that the entity 19


### responsible for the investment should get the 20



### credit. But BCSE mem bers seek clarity on this 21


### point in the final rule. Related to this BCSE 2223

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### members also seek clarity on how to account for 1


### the sale or purchase of renewable energy credits. 2


### Secondly, do states have a disincentive 3


### to act before the start of the compliance per iod 4



### in 2020, or between the 2020 and 2029 interim 5


### compliance period? BCSE is concerned that the 6



### proposed Clean Power Plan as currently formulated 7


### might provide a disincentive for energy 8


### efficiency and renewable energy investments prior 9



### to 2020. 10



### Additional ly, BCSE is pleased to see 11


### demand side energy efficiency listed as a 12


### compliance mechanism. However, BCSE plans to 13



### comment on the need for further information on 14



### the evaluation measurement and verification, EM 15


### and V, on how these efforts will be adequately 16



### credited. 17



### Guidance for EM and V for renewables has 18



### been requested as well. 19


### Finally another issue identified has to 20


### do with private sector or non

- utility rate payer 21


### delivered efficiency. Energy efficiency programs 2224

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### or those run by utilities, are provided with 1


### methodological guidance under the rule. However, 2


### energy efficiency projects, or those done by 3


### energy savings performance contracts, ESP's, or 4


### building projects the city does in support of its 5


### local goals needs additional guidance. 6


### BCSE views the pr oposed Clean Power Plan 7


### as a historic opportunity to build upon current 8


### trends in the U.S. energy sectors and diversify 9


### the nation's energy portfolio. This will lead to 10


### increased energy security, job creation, and a 11


### stronger economy. The economic opportu nities for 12


### states and industry alike are significant and 13


### BCSE looks forward to working with you to refine 14


### to the rule and move forward in this process. 15


### Thank you for your time. 16



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Zoe. And we 17


### appreciate your proposal and for the w ritten 18



### comments about how to account for some of those 19


### aspects that you raised. 20



### MS. BERKERY: Okay. Thank you. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, ma'am. Next 2225

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### we'd like to invite up Kristin Cook and Joelle 1



### Novey, please. 2


### MS. COOK: Good morning. My name is 3



### Kristi n Cook and I'm a resident of Montgomery 4


### County, mother of three, and conserving our best. 5



### MR. NIEBLING: Would you

-- 6



### MS. COOK: I'm here today to applaud 7



### the

-- 8


### MR. NIEBLING: Kristin, I'm sorry, would 9


### you please spell Kristin Cook? 10



### MS. COOK: Kristin C ook? 11



### MR. NIEBLING: Yes. Thank you. 12



### MS. COOK: K

- R

- I

- S

- T

- I

- N Cook, C

- O

- O

- K. 13



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 14



### MS. COOK: I'm here today to applaud the 15


### EPA for its proposal to cut carbon emissions from 16


### existing power plants. 17



### For some who fully understand the cur rent 18


### state of our environment, especially in terms of 19


### the climate, those new proposed rules don't go 20


### far enough. But I'm here to say it's a solid 21


### start and ask you to stay strong in your mission. 2226

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### I understand there's plenty of resistance to your 1



### proposal , so you must stay strong in your 2



### convictions. 3


### As I see it there are too many reasons 4


### why it is imperative that these new regulations 5


### get passed and go into effect immediately, 6



### economic and more. 7



### Economic. I'd like to read some of floor 8



### Treasury Secretar y Robert Ruben's recent 9


### Washington Post opinion piece. Hopefully you've 10


### read it, but here it goes. 11


### When it comes to the economy much of the 12


### debate about climate change and reducing the 13


### greenhouse gas emissions that are fueling it is 14



### framed as a trade

- off between the environmental 15


### protection and economic prosperity. Many people 16


### will argue that moving away from fossil fuels and 17


### reducing carbon emissions will impeded economic 18


### growth, hurt business, and hamper job creation. 19


### But from an economic perspective th at's 20


### precisely the wrong way to look at it. The real 21


### question should be, what is the cost of inaction. 2227

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### In the view of growing group of business people 1



### economic economists

-- excuse me

-- and other 2


### financial and market experts, the cost of 3



### inaction over t he long

- term is far greater than 4



### the cost of action. 5


### A new report led by a highly respected 6


### group of economists and climate scientists 7


### demonstrated significant harm that climate change 8


### is already causing now. And that will most 9


### certainly be far more seve re in the future to the 10


### agriculture, energy, and coastal property 11


### sectors, as well as to public health and labor 12


### and productivity more generally. 13


### For example, by 2050 between 48 million 14


### and 68 billion worth of current property in 15



### Louisiana and Florida is l ikely to be at risk of 16


### flooding because it will be below sea level. And 17


### that's just a baseline estimate. There are other 18


### scenarios that could be more catastrophic. 19


### Then of course there's unpredictable 20


### damages from super storms yet to come. Hurricane 21



### Kat rina and Hurricane Sandy caused a combination 2228

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### of 193 billion in economic losses. The 1


### congressional aid packages that followed both 2



### storms cost more than 122 billion. 3


### And dramatically rising temperatures in 4


### much of the country will make it too hot for 5



### pe ople to work outside during parts of the day 6


### for several months each year, reducing employment 7


### and economic output, and causing as many as 8


### 65,000 additional heat related deaths each year. 9


### So the U.S. economy faces enormous risk 10


### from unmitigated climate cha nge. But the metrics 11


### we currently use to measure economic growth, 12


### fiscal prospects, and business earnings do not 13


### incorporate these risks. 14


### If we're going to have a well

- informed 15


### and accurate debate about the economic process of 16



### action versus inaction, the public and private 17


### sectors need to honestly reflect climate related 18



### risk. 19



### So a lot of times we do not face a choice 20


### between protecting our environment or protecting 21


### our economy. We face a choice between protecting 2229

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### our economy by protecting our environment . Or 1


### allowing environmental havoc to create economic 2



### havoc. 3


### Finally, our moral obligation, the United 4


### Nations has called climate change an existential 5


### threat to human existence, and yet the fossil 6


### fuel industry's business plan calls for as much 7


### exploita tion for and development of fossil fuels 8


### as possible. This is just immoral. At a certain 9


### point we have to say that we will not be part of 10


### this. Thank you. 11


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Kristin. 12



### MS. NOVEY: Joelle Novey, J

- O

- E

- L

- L

- E 13



### Novey, N

- O

- V

- E

- Y. And I'm the Director of 14


### Interfaith Power and Light. 15


### Through Interfaith Power and Light 16


### hundreds of local congregations of all religious 17


### traditions work together on energy and climate 18


### issues. This morning I am only one of over two 19


### dozen religious voices you wi ll hear speaking out 20


### in support of strong safeguards on carbon 21


### pollution from power plants. These voices come 2230

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### from nine Christian denominations and six other 1



### faith traditions, Baha'i, Buddhist, Hindu, 2



### Jewish, Muslim, and Unitarian Universalist. 3


### I'm speaki ng also with a stack of 4


### postcards that good folks signed in support of 5



### the Clean Power Plan on card tables after 6


### services in their congregations throughout our 7


### region. 8


### And we are joined by religious voices 9


### around the country who are participating in the 10



### EP A's other hearings. 11


### The teaching from my own tradition that 12


### informs my thoughts on carbon pollution come from 13


### Rabbi Isaac Ben Sheshet, a 14th Century scholar 14



### of Jewish law. He wrote, "One is forbidden from 15


### gaining a livelihood at the expense of another's 16


### health." Simple ethical wisdom. Not bad for the 17


### Middle Ages. 18



### For too long, here, now, those who 19


### operate our power plants have been permitted to 20


### gain their livelihoods at the expense of people's 21



### health. There have been limits on other kinds of 2231

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### pollutants , but there have been no limits at all 1


### on carbon pollution. 2



### Here in D.C. we have one of the nation's 3


### highest asthma rates, particularly among 4


### children. Nearly 14,000 children in our nation's 5


### capitol city sometimes struggle to breathe 6



### because of our dirt y air. Someone is making 7


### their living at the expense of these kids' 8



### health. 9


### We'll be hearing from polluters at these 10


### hearings, saying that any limits on carbon 11


### pollution will interfere with their jobs. And 12


### they have every right to make an honorable 13



### livin g. But it should be forbidden in this 14


### country for anyone to make their livelihood at 15



### the expense of people’s health. 16


### In the religious communities with which I 17


### work people are heart sick about the role of 18


### fossil fuels in producing the heat

- trapping gases 19



### t hat are causing climate change. They are 20


### working to reduce their electric use in their 21


### sanctuaries and at home. They are climbing up on 2232

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### ladders to change to more efficient light bulbs, 1


### they are working together to support clean energy 2


### through their energ y bills, they fought hard to 3


### bring off

- shore wind power to Maryland's coast, 4


### and they are willing to spend many hours in 5


### committee meetings figuring out how to finance 6


### solar panels for their roofs. 7



### So often we are told that the change we 8


### are trying to make is unrealistic because clean 9


### energy is so expensive, while dirty energy is 10


### cheap. But who pays for dirty energy? Who bears 11


### the cost of bad air quality, the cost of kids 12


### with asthma, of seniors having heart attacks, of 13


### pregnant mothers with mercury in th eir bodies. 14



### Who bears the cost of stronger storms, extreme 15


### drought, devastating floods, and other scary 16


### weather caused by climate change? 17



### Any energy we pay for through the 18


### permanent destruction of our climate, any energy 19


### people pay for with their health , isn't cheap 20


### energy. It is intolerably expensive. 21


### Another idea I heard expressed in these 2233

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### hearing rooms yesterday was that so long as other 1


### nations in the world are still producing so much 2


### carbon pollution with their power plants there's 3


### no point for u s in the U.S. to bother to do 4


### anything about carbon pollution from our power 5



### plants. 6


### In my religious community it would never 7


### occur to me to make this line of moral argument 8


### in my own life. I know I can't explain to my 9


### rabbi that I am not going to stop stealing until 10


### absolutely everyone else in Washington, D.C. has 11


### stopped stealing. 12


### And you can check with them, but I don't 13


### think any one of the 26 other religious leaders 14


### who are speaking at these hearings would be 15


### impressed to hear a member of their own 16


### congregations explain that he or she is not 17


### responsible for harming others because everyone 18


### else is doing it. 19


### We in this country produce a quarter of 20



### the heat

- trapping climate pollution that is 21


### warming our Earth and causing suffering for our 2234

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### neighbors clo se to home and around the world. If 1


### our religious voices add only one thing to these 2


### hearings, let it be the clarity that we in this 3


### nation are called to do right on this issue 4


### regardless of what anyone else in the world is 5


### doing. 6


### On this historic morning the EPA stands 7


### poised to set national limits on our nation's 8


### single largest source of carbon pollution. 9


### Please proceed to swiftly approve and implement 10



### the Clean Power Plan. 11


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. And if you 12


### would please deliver those comments to us or to 13


### the registration desk

-- 14



### MS. NOVEY: Okay. 15



### MR. NIEBLING:

-- we'll make sure they 16


### get reflected in the docket. 17


### Next we'd like to invite up, please, 18


### Mallory Yates and Represenative David McKinley. 19


### MS. YATES: Good morning. My name is 20



### Mallory Yates an d I live in Charleston, West 21


### Virginia. I'm here today representing the West 2235

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### Virginia Coal Forum. 1


### The Coal Forum is a group of labor and 2


### industry people that work together to tackle the 3



### issues in the coal fields. 4


### I am here today to voice my concern on 5


### the impact the proposed regulations would have on 6


### West Virginia coal miners. I have family and 7



### friends that are coal miners and I work in an 8


### office that tries to keep them safe. So when my 9


### family and friends have to live off the 10



### government Obama's plan w ill result in the loss 11


### of 45,000 jobs by 2020 and twice that by 2030. 12


### Who will be paying for this? We, the American 13


### people will. 14


### This plan will bring higher utility bills 15


### for our families which would harm those already 16


### struggling to pay their electric bi lls. We will 17


### see an increase in manufactured goods because of 18


### increases in production and transportation costs. 19



### It would also, fewer tax payers, fewer 20


### tax dollars, and thousands will lose their jobs 21


### and the ability to take care of their families. 2236

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### The E PA rules will hurt the states where coal 1


### production is central to the economy, and that is 2


### why we are against these rules. 3



### As Joe Watts, the administrator of the 4


### West Virginia Coal Forum stated, "This rule is 5


### coupled with other recent emission related 6



### regu lations promulgated by the U.S. Environmental 7


### Protection Agency." 8


### This has forced the closure or planned 9



### closure of hundreds of power plants across the 10



### country as coal powered power plants close the 11


### need for West Virginia coal to power them and the 12



### thousan ds of miners who produce it, goes away. 13


### The impact of these rules is already 14


### having an impact in West Virginia. The net 15



### result in our state alone is the loss of 3,500 to 16


### 4,000 direct mining jobs, and potentially as many 17


### as 20,000 mining dependent jobs. S o I urge the 18



### EPA to reconsider these rules and to convene an 19


### actual stakeholder's meeting to discuss how best 20



### to proceed. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Mallory. 2237

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### CONGRESSMAN MCKINLEY: Thank you. Thank 1


### you, Mr. Chairman. 2


### I'm Congressman David McKinley and I 3


### represent the people of the First District of 4


### West Virginia. I'm here to be the voice of the 5


### families who are among the expanded casualties of 6



### this war on coal. 7


### Some say this war on coal doesn't exist; 8


### that it's a figment of our imagination. But when 9



### w e in West Virginia hear the words of President 10


### Obama's administration saying, "Coal makes us 11


### sick. Coal is our worst nightmare," what else 12


### are we supposed to interpret? That conclusion is 13


### easily drawn. 14



### To the unelected bureaucrats of the EPA I 15



### say, come to my district, come to West Virginia, 16



### come to the coal fields all across America. 17



### You'll find thousands of men and women and 18


### children whose lives have been ripped apart by 19



### the actions of the EPA. 20



### Obama and his EPA have shown a callous 21


### disregard for the hardworking Americans they are 2238

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### hurting with excessive regulations. These 1


### families are not statistics. They're people. 2


### They're families. They're husbands and wives, 3


### moms and dads, neighbors and friends. The coal 4


### mines and power plants threatened by th ese new 5


### regulations are not in Chicago, New York, or Los 6


### Angeles. They're in small towns, like 7


### Mannington, Farmington, Benwood, Grafton. Just 8


### in West Virginia alone. 9



### These are places where I go home every 10



### weekend. I see the look on the face of a 50 year 11


### old coal miner who has lost his job. It's the 12


### only job he's ever known. It's a good job for 13


### him and his family to take care of his children. 14



### Where else would he find work? 15



### I talked to the wife a worker at the coal 16


### fired power house that's been shuttere d. How are 17


### they going to put food on their table? These are 18


### small towns. If you shut down a coal mine or a 19


### power plant, you shut down an entire community. 20


### In many places these are the only jobs available. 21


### There are consequences to this anti

- coal agend a; 2239

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### this war on coal. There really are consequences. 1



### Of course we all want clean air and we 2



### want fresh water. But we need to achieve it in a 3


### way that doesn't oppose a crushing cost on the 4


### hardworking American families. The impact will 5



### be felt far beyond West Virginia and the other 6


### coal producing areas. We're just the front line 7



### in this war on coal. 8


### The increased cost of electricity will be 9


### borne by those who can least afford it. Seniors 10



### on fixed income, low income families. It will 11



### make manufacturers l ess competitive. You all are 12



### aware of that. You understand that. This will 13


### lead to more good paying jobs going offshore to 14


### where other countries, where they're continuing 15


### to burn coal. While we're going away from coal, 16


### foreign countries are increasingl y turning to it. 17


### Look at China, increasing production by 18


### 60 percent of their coal emissions. India, with 19


### 50 percent increase emissions over the next 17 20


### years. Germany opening up 22 more coal fired 21



### power plants. They understand that the 2240

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### affordable depen dable energy is key to economic 1



### growth. 2


### All of this argument reminds me of the 3


### quote from a leadership expert, John Maxwell, who 4


### said, "He who thinks he is leading but has no 5


### followers is merely a man taking a walk." 6



### And I want to suggest to the EPA and the 7



### President, to look over their shoulders. You're 8


### going to find that no one is following. The rest 9


### of the world is not embarking on this mission. 10


### The Administration is simply handicapping our own 11


### competitiveness so it can feel good about doing 12



### somethi ng. I'm not going to sit here and say 13


### climate isn't changing. We know it is. The 14


### question is what's the appropriate response. 15


### Let's be realistic. These regulations 16


### being proposed for coal fired power plants are 17


### impractical, unattainable, and avoidabl e. Just 18


### take a step back and look at what we're doing. 19


### Come to Appalachia and listen to the voices of 20


### the people whose lives you're playing with. 21


### Listen to the communities in which you are 2241

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### threatening. Their voices deserve to be heard. 1



### Thank you. Tha nk you for your time today. 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you for your 3


### testimony. 4


### Next we would like to invite up, please, 5


### Cecilia Calvo and Bridgett Chadwick. Cecilia and 6


### Bridgett. 7


### MR. NIEBLING: Just go ahead. We will

-- 8



### MS. CHADWICK: Okay. 9



### MR. NIEBLING: Whenever you're ready. 10



### MS. CHADWICK: Oh, okay. Sorry. Good 11


### morning. Good morning. I'm Bridgett Chadwick of 12


### Wyncote, Pennsylvania. I actually

-- my family 13


### moved from Yorkshire, North Yorkshire coal mining 14



### areas, and all the homes and walls were blac k 15



### with coal soot. 16



### So, I'd like first to commend the EPA for 17


### setting carbon limits on existing power plants. 18


### As we know we can choose to generate electricity 19


### by capturing energy from tidal hydro, geothermal, 20


### wind, solar, biogas from landfill sites, and 21



### man ure and nuclear energy sources, all of which 2242

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### have zero carbon content. We can even generate 1


### electricity from bio

- mass material which is 2



### considered carbon neutral, or we can choose to 3


### generate electricity from coal with a Co2 4


### emission factor of 95 kilogram s of Co2 per 5


### million BTUs or natural gas with a Co2 emission 6


### factor of 53 kilograms of Co2 per million BTUs. 7


### There's a lot of good with electricity. 8



### Since 2005

-- between 2005 and 2012, the carbon 9


### intensity of electricity decreased 12.5 percent 10



### because of the increase in zero carbon neutral 11


### fuels used to generate electricity. 12


### The carbon intensity now, in 2014, is as 13


### low as the carbon intensity of natural gas, and 14


### will be getting lower. The bad news about 15


### electricity is that we still generate electricity 16



### with

-- in 2014, it's gone up to 44 percent of 17


### the electricity that's generated from coal. And 18


### with its high carbon content it is producing 79 19


### percent of the Co2 emissions from the electric 20



### power sector. 21


### So again, I commend the EPA for setting 2243

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### these carb on limits. We're losing what we had

-- 1


### were gaining on carbon intensity decrease. 2


### I did just download the EIA Monthly 3


### Energy Report, and if you look at the electric 4


### power sector the months of January through April 5



### of 2014, the percent of energy for genera ting 6


### electricity from coal went up to 44.5 percent 7


### from 41.5 percent in 2012. 8


### The good news, again though, is that our 9


### renewable energy is still climbing up steadily 10



### from 33 percent. It's up to 35 percent. So, 11


### there is a war. But hopefully we will pre vail. 12



### Thank you. 13


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Bridgett. Is 14


### Cecilia here now? And you can come up. And if 15


### Brian Levy is here. 16



### MS. CALVO: I'm sorry, I was

-- 17



### MR. NIEBLING: That's fine. 18


### MS. CALVO: Good morning. My name is 19



### Cecilia Calvo and I oversee the Environmental 20


### Justice Program at the United States Conference 21


### of Catholic Bishops. 2244

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### On behalf of Arch Bishop Thomas Wenski 1


### and Bishop Pates, Chairman of the domestic and 2



### international committees of the United States 3


### Conference of Catholic Bishops, I th ank you for 4


### this important and timely hearing on an issue 5


### that clearly affects God's creation and the 6


### entire human family. 7


### My testimony draws from a letter that 8


### will be sent tomorrow by Arch Bishop Thomas 9


### Wenski and Bishop Richard Pates to the EPA 10



### Administ rator, welcoming the setting of standards 11


### to reduce carbon pollution from existing power 12



### plants. 13


### The chairmen support a national standard 14


### to reduce carbon pollution and recognize the 15


### important flexibility given to states in 16


### determining how best to meet the se goals. Above 17



### all these standards should protect the health and 18


### welfare of all people, especially children, the 19



### elderly, as well as poor and vulnerable 20


### communities from harmful pollution emitted from 21


### power plants and from the impacts of climate 2245

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### change. 1


### The Bishops speak as people of faith, not 2


### as technical experts. They are pastors in a 3


### faith tradition that teaches, as Pope Francis 4


### recently stated, creation is a gift. It is a 5


### wonderful gift that God has given us to care for 6



### it and use it for the benefi t of all, always with 7


### great respect and gratitude. 8


### Power plants are the largest stationary 9



### source of carbon emissions in the United States 10


### and a major contributor to climate change. And 11


### we know the affects of climate change are borne 12



### by the most vulnerabl e, whether here at home or 13



### around the world. 14


### In the United States power plants have 15



### often been located in low

- income neighborhoods 16


### and communities of color. Air pollution from 17


### these plants contributes to health problems, 18


### especially in the young and the el derly. These 19


### standards would significantly reduce carbon 20


### pollution from power plants. They would also 21


### reduce particle pollution, sulfur dioxide, and 2246

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### nitrogen oxides, which have been linked to 1


### important human and environmental health 2



### problems. 3



### Around the world these effects are even 4



### more severe. Catholic Relief Services, the 5


### relief and development agency of the Catholic 6


### Church is helping the most vulnerable people 7


### respond to increasing floods and droughts, water 8


### and food and security, and increasing confl ict 9


### over declining resources. All these are making 10


### the lives of the world's poorest people even more 11


### precarious. 12


### These standards are a vital first step to 13


### protecting the world's most vulnerable people, 14



### and allow the United States to exercise critical 15



### le adership necessary to achieving a global 16



### agreement. 17


### As the U.S. Bishops wrote in their 18


### statement global climate change, a plea for 19


### dialog prudence and the common good, action to 20


### mitigate global climate change must be built upon 21



### a foundation of social and e conomic justice. 2247

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### The following principles can and should 1


### guide the EPA and states as they take steps to 2


### reduce carbon pollution and address climate 3


### change, respect for human life and dignity. All 4


### efforts to reduce the impact of climate change 5



### should recog nize human life and dignity as the 6


### foundation of a healthy society. 7



### Prudence, on behalf of the common good. 8


### Why is action to address climate change required 9



### now? To protect the common good for present and 10


### future generations. 11


### A priority for the poor a nd vulnerable. 12


### The consequences of climate change will be borne 13



### by the world's most vulnerable people, and 14


### inaction will worsen their suffering. 15


### We all have an obligation to make sure 16



### their needs are addressed, and their burdens 17



### eased. 18



### Social and econ omic justice, any 19


### additional costs that such standards may generate 20


### must be distributed fairly. Workers should be 21


### protected from negative effects that might arise, 2248

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### and should receive assistance to mitigate impacts 1



### on their livelihoods and families. 2



### Care for creation. We are all called to 3


### be responsible stewards of the Earth and to use 4


### the gifts we have been given to protect human 5


### life and dignity now and in the future. 6


### Participation. Communities should have a 7


### voice in shaping these standards based on their 8


### local impact. Especially low

- income communities 9



### whose voice is often not heard. 10


### Arch Bishop Wenski and Bishop Pates 11


### appreciate the Agency's commitment to address 12


### this urgent global challenge confronting the 13


### human family, and call upon leaders and 14



### g overnment and industry to act responsibly, 15


### justly, and rapidly. 16



### The moral measure of debate and decisions 17


### on climate change will be whether our nation acts 18


### with prudence to safeguard creation, advance the 19


### common good, and protect humanity. Thank you. 20



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Cecilia. May I 21


### just confirm the spelling of your last name is C

- 2249

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### A

- L

- V

- O. 1



### MS. CALVO: C

- A

- L, V as in Victor, O. 2


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Brian. 3



### MR. LEVY: Gentlemen, thank you for the 4


### opportunity to be here today. I appreciat e it. 5


### My name is Brian Levy. I'm a resident of the 6


### District. For years I grew up in the shadow of 7


### an oil refinery. My father worked for Exxon. 8


### Some of my earliest childhood memories are of 9


### huge oil tankers passing before our house in 10


### Aruba, taking the crude from the refinery to the 11



### U.S. markets. 12


### Oil money paid for my college education 13


### and even today I continue to receive royalties 14


### from shale gas extraction in Louisiana, although 15


### I'm not proud of it. 16


### If, you know, if times had changed I 17


### think my fathe r and I would be up here. We'd be 18


### testifying against strengthening the Clean Power 19


### Plan. But really, right now it's not 1983. 20


### We've got solar power that was $18 a watt back 21


### then. Today it's 73 cents. Childhood asthma 2250

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### rates have doubled. We're at 400 PPM, not 340, 1


### and in my own backyard in D.C., you know the 2


### cherry trees are blossoming in February. 3


### So times are different. I currently 4



### serve as Vice President of FEER. We're a start

5


### up, Finances Energy Efficiency and Renewables, 6


### project across the cou ntry. 7



### Through power purchase agreements PPA's

- 8



### - we can finance. We're able to provide clients 9



### solar power for a cost lower than what they 10



### currently pay for coal and gas powered 11


### electricity. And probably just as importantly, 12



### we can actually make money on it. We can run a 13



### business and we also reduce carbon emissions in 14


### the process. Sort of a triple win for everyone. 15


### There's one thing I've learned from the 16


### private sector, and the one thing that hasn't 17


### changed in the last 30 yeas is the incredible 18


### adapti ve power of the market to respond to new 19


### technology and new policy. 20



### So as EPA knows, we make the rules, and 21


### the rules make us. Right? And somewhere in 2251

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### there someone is making money, whether it's coal 1



### or oil or renewables. 2


### And right now I firmly belie ve that 3


### there's enormous opportunity, there's enormous 4


### climate wealth to be made in efficiency and 5


### renewables. Bigger than anything else in the oil 6



### and gas sector. 7


### And Americans should be making it. Not 8


### overseas. In the process we'll be doing the 9


### righ t thing for our country and for our kids. 10



### So I'm here today to thank you, thank the 11



### EPA for the good work you've taken to date for 12


### holding these hearings. I'm also here to urge 13



### you to do more. 14


### Efficiency and renewables alone can 15


### achieve the current goal s. We all know in four 16


### states they're already generating more renewable 17


### energy than the nonbinding target EPA sets in the 18


### proposed rule. So I believe we can transition 19


### from dirty to clean energy far faster than what 20


### the EPA predicts, because today the te chnology, 21


### the private sector, which I represent, and the 2252

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### sobering moral demands which many have testified 1


### to here today. All these demands of our changing 2


### planet, they're all uniquely aligned. 3



### So I'm here to urge you to please work 4


### towards a larger nati onal emission reduction 5


### goal, 40 percent reductions to 2005 levels by 6


### 2020. Thank you for your time. 7


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Brian. And 8


### we'd appreciate

-- we've heard a little bit about 9


### energy measurement verification. We'd appreciate 10



### a follow

- up tech nical comment in the docket about 11



### how your system works and ways that states can 12



### become informed. 13


### MR. LEVY: Certainly. Thank you very 14



### much. 15



### MR. NIEBLING: Next we'd like to invite 16



### up Starla Yeh and Walton Shepherd, please. 17


### MS. YEH: Good morning. I'm Starla Yey. 18


### I am an analyst with NRDC, the National Resources 19


### Defense Council. Thank you for taking my 20



### comments. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Starla, would you please 2253

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### spell your last name for the

-- 1


### MS. YEH: Sure. It's spelled Y, as in 2



### yellow, E

- H. 3



### Thanks for taki ng my comments on this 4


### very important issue. Along with my colleagues, 5



### I support the EPA's Clean Power Plan and commend 6


### the agency for this tremendous accomplishment. 7


### Still, the proposed standards can and should be 8



### strengthened and as several of my colle agues, and 9


### Walton will soon testify, there are many 10


### improvements that we think can be made in the 11


### building blocks of this approach. So, others 12


### will address the other building blocks. 13



### I will talk about the fourth block, which 14


### addresses the potential in eac h state to decrease 15



### the amount of energy we use to power homes and 16


### businesses through investments in energy 17


### efficiency. 18


### It's a major tool that states can use to 19


### help meet the new pollution requirements, and 20


### it's a key part of the solution because it 21


### provid es states with important flexibility at 2254

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### relatively low cost. 1


### EPA has readily recognized that energy 2


### efficiency is the most cost

- effective resource to 3



### reduce emissions. Still, the block four formula 4


### falls well short of quantifying states' energy 5


### efficiency savings potential, overestimating the 6


### costs, and underestimating the benefits. States 7


### could do more to increase efficiency deployment 8



### at lower costs than EPA's reduced energy targets. 9



### EPA should also know that other 10


### opportunities to save energy from ac tivities 11


### other than from utility programs and match the 12


### assumed pace of the implementation to what has 13


### been demonstrated in graphics. 14


### And the biggest missed opportunity in the 15


### approach is that it underestimates the potential 16


### for energy efficiency as well as renewable 17


### generation to reduce coal and gas plant 18


### pollution. 19


### The Agency must address these issues in 20


### its final rule and adjust block four and the 21


### others accordingly. 2255

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### Even though EPA's analysis incorporates 1


### overly conservative estimates for the costs, t he 2


### limitation rates, and persistence of energy 3


### savings, it still finds that the benefits 4


### tremendously outweigh the reasonable costs. 5


### Investing in energy efficiency will also 6


### be good for the economy. New investments will 7



### create a broad range of homegrown e xpertise in 8


### industries that have been especially hard hit by 9



### the recent recession. We've shown that if states 10


### take full advantage of energy efficiency 11


### opportunities not only will we reduce carbon 12


### pollution but we'll also save American households 13



### and busin esses about $37 million on their 14


### electric bills by 2020, with the average 15


### household enjoying more than $100 saved each year 16


### on the new electricity bills. 17



### And we'll also grow the ranks of the 18


### electricians, roofers, carpenters, heavy 19


### equipment operators, ins ulation workers, 20


### industrial truck drivers, construction managers, 21


### heating and air conditioning installers, among 2256

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### others, by more than 270,000. 1


### This all can happen because energy 2


### efficiency is our cleanest and cheapest energy 3


### resource and it remains large ly untapped. 4



### Twenty

- six states have an energy efficiency 5


### resource standard and nearly every state is now 6


### investing in these resources. Some states have 7


### been implementing these programs and reaping 8



### their rewards for decades, but several states 9


### have only j ust begun in the last few years and 10


### have ramped up their energy efficiency programs 11


### very quickly. 12



### States will be able to continue this 13



### trend under the Clean Power Plan and should go 14


### farther than what EPA has prescribed to maximize 15


### benefits while keeping costs moderate. 16


### In a report released earlier this year 17


### NRDC found that maximizing energy efficiency 18



### investments in all states would achieve more 19



### emission reductions earlier than the Clean Power 20



### Plan does, and deliver substantial net benefits 21


### ranging from $21,000 to $53,000 in 2020. 2257

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### EPA has plenty of room to strengthen its 1


### proposal significantly while keeping costs 2


### modest, and boosting local and state economies by 3


### prorating more efficiency savings. 4



### Thank you. 5



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 6



### Mr. Walton. 7



### MR. SHE PHERD: Good morning, 8


### administrators, and thank you. My name is Walton 9


### Shepherd. I'm a native of West Virginia and an 10



### attorney at the Natural Resources Defense 11



### Council. 12



### I commend the EPA for the Clean Power 13



### Plan as a common sense fulfillment of its lawfu l 14


### duty to address our country's single largest 15


### source of dangerous climate changing carbon 16


### pollution. I will address the EPA's rightful 17



### inclusion of cost

- effective renewable energy as a 18


### compliance option, block three, as well as 19


### identify ways EPA's treatm ent of renewable energy 20



### should be approved. 21


### But first I urge the EPA not to be 2258

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### distracted by the tired predictable chorus of 1


### special interest Chicken Littles who warn of 2


### crushed economy, killed jobs, and being plunged 3


### into medieval darkness. These big pol luter 4


### canards are trotted out every time the EPA has 5



### followed the law of the land and reined in 6


### dangerous costly pollution. And every time those 7


### special interest untruths are proven wrong, with 8


### instead GDP continues to grow, innovation 9



### flourishes, and the air we all breathe is made 10



### cleaner at a low cost. 11



### Already the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's 12


### rogue attack on this proposal has been debunked, 13


### earning it a notorious four full Pinocchios from 14


### the Washington Post. 15


### These big polluters also routinely decry 16



### any subsidy and zero emissions renewable energy, 17


### and conveniently leave out that their profits are 18


### themselves subsidized by tax payers to the tune 19


### of $4 billion a year, and always have been since 20


### their subsidized build out, indeed monopolization 21


### in the early 2 0th Century. 2259

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### Without such subsidies dirty energy 1


### sources would have never been the dominant energy 2


### supply they are today. Similarly politicians who 3


### oppose this proposal, who disingenuously deny 4


### science, who disregard the structural decline of 5



### central Appa lachian coal, and who vote dirty in 6


### exchange for campaign contributions are 7


### themselves yet another subsidy to the dirty 8


### energy we all pay for, through children's asthma 9


### attacks, through demolished mountains in the 10


### mountain state, and through every extreme weather 11



### clean

- up caused by climate change. 12


### Big polluters’ refusal to innovate into 13


### the 21st Century obliges them to now get out of 14


### the way to allow the true innovators and job 15



### creators in non

- climate changing clean energy to 16


### lead the way, to clean our ai r to create 17


### homegrown jobs, and to grow a healthy durable 18



### economy so that the rest of the world may follow 19


### in America's footsteps. 20


### So, the EPA is correct to recognize these 21


### American innovators and job creators in block 2260

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### three of the Clean Power Plan, becaus e renewables 1


### are already a thriving and growing the industry 2


### whose electric generation is growing 3


### exponentially. Already three states get over 20 4


### percent of their energy from wind. Six get at 5


### least 12 percent, and Xcel Energy in Colorado 6


### supplied 60 perc ent of its system with wind 7



### power. 8


### Steady wind energy was crucial to keeping 9


### the lights on and prices from skyrocketing during 10


### the polar vortex. The wind industry employs 11


### 80,000 people. The cost of wind energy dropped 12



### by almost half between '09 and '12 , and 70 13


### percent of wind power components are made in 14



### America. 15


### The solar industry employs over 140,000 16


### Americans, and California recently produced the 17


### equivalent of five large power plants from solar 18


### energy alone. Due to innovation the price of 19



### solar powe r dropped by 60 percent between '11 and 20



### '13. So it is not a matter of whether we can 21


### rely upon renewables and low cost, it's a matter 2261

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### of whether we will. And the EPA has rightly 1


### recognized that we will if states choose to do 2



### so. 3


### However, the EPA can impr ove the proposed 4


### third building block to more accurately reflect 5


### what American clean energy is in reality already 6


### achieving and how much it can cost effectively 7



### grow. The levels of renewable energy's 8


### availability and quantity assumed by the EPA are 9



### far to o low, based as they are on a metric that 10


### doesn't accurately reflect reality. 11


### Rather than basing block three on 12


### arbitrary and unambitious state RPS mandates as 13


### proposed, block three should instead be based on 14


### proven resource availability. On a state and a 15


### regional basis, according to the proposal of 16


### alternative approach. 17



### EPA should also include the full 18


### potential of distributed solar and off

- shore wind 19


### in its analysis of what is possible and cost 20



### effective. 21


### In closing, the EPA is right to include 2262

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### renew ables in the BSER standards for each state, 1


### but BSER should also fully reflect all that is 2


### currently possible from innovative job creators 3


### who will once again export cutting edge energy 4



### technology to the rest of the world. Thank you. 5



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Mr. Walton. 6


### Next we'd like to invite up Kelly Benjamin and 7


### Gene Karpinski please. 8


### MR. BENJAMIN: Hi. My name is Kelly 9


### Benjamin and that's K

- E

- L

- L

- Y B

- E

- N

- J

- A

- M

- I

- N. I 10


### work on climate health issues with Physicians for 11


### Social Responsibility right h ere in D.C., and I'd 12



### like to first address the Clean Power Plan as a 13


### Floridian. I hail from Tampa, Florida, the 14


### Sunshine State. Although unfortunately we 15


### haven't invested a whole lot in solar technology 16



### down there. 17



### Instead we get over a quarter of our 18



### po wer from coal burning power plants. We get 19


### more from natural gas, which is something I hope 20



### to see the EPA address next. 21


### There are 15 dirty coal burning plants in 2263

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### Florida, including Big Ben Power Plant, which 1


### sits right on the edge of Tampa Bay. 2



### Althoug h Big Ben is one of these plants 3


### that has scrubbers, it's still pretty dirty. 4


### Coal is dirty. There's no such thing as clean 5


### coal. And that's partly why Hillsboro County, 6


### where Tampa sits, where I grew up, has the worst 7


### smog in the State of Florida. My county receives 8


### an F rating every single year from the American 9


### Lung Association for having the highest number of 10


### days when people with conditions like asthma 11



### shouldn't observe themselves outside in the 12



### afternoon. 13


### Growing up there I had asthma, many of my 14


### friends did. Many of them still do. And I think 15


### a strong carbon rule can help begin to change 16


### that for the generations that come after us. 17


### As most people in this room already know, 18


### there's a significant

-- you know, there's a 19



### scientific consensus that bu rning fossil fuels is 20


### contributing to a rapidly heating planet, despite 21


### propaganda coming from those in the industry, and 2264

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### coming from those who say, like this gentleman 1



### who was here earlier, that there's a war on coal. 2


### How about the war on public health, on human 3


### health that is happening because of the continued 4


### use of this archaic energy source. 5



### Those folks make a great deal of money 6


### polluting the air we breathe. We know that our 7


### actions are causing runaway climate change. And 8


### it just so happens that tw o of the cities that 9


### among the most endangered by climate change in 10


### the world, according to the National Research 11


### Council are two of the largest cities in my home 12


### state of Florida, Tampa, St. Petersburg, and 13


### Miami. These cities are facing the gravest risk 14


### of potential annual losses from coastal flooding. 15



### All of Florida is at sea level. We don't have 16


### any mountains. And sea level rise is already 17


### beginning to devastate places like Miami. It's 18


### already happening and the vast majority of the 19


### population in Fl orida lives on the coast. This 20


### is a pretty serious issue. 21


### Florida is also at high risk for extreme 2265

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### weather caused by climate change. We get 1



### hurricanes, which can cause contaminated water, 2


### and with climate change comes an increase in 3



### water borne diseases, as well as insect born 4



### diseases like West Nile Virus, like Malaria. 5


### Climate change is a direct threat to 6


### human health. At least 1,500 people lost their 7


### lives during Hurricane Katrina. Many of those 8



### deaths were a direct result of the 28

- foot storm 9



### surg e that they had there, which many scientists 10


### link to runaway climate change. A strong carbon 11


### rule can help lessen the likelihood of these 12


### kinds of storms happening in the future. 13



### Much has been said about the cost of 14


### implementing this plan, and that there is a 15


### tradeoff between protecting the environment and 16


### economic prosperity. That's simply not true. As 17


### the gentleman who was just here before stated 18


### very eloquently, we have the capacity to 19


### implement new technologies to begin to transition 20



### off of these arc haic energy sources. 21


### This plan holds up the door to an 2266

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### entirely new economy based on sustainable clean 1


### energy sources that don't emit greenhouse gases 2


### and threaten health. The real question that 3


### should be asked is, how much is it going to cost 4



### if we do no thing? 5


### In closing, President Obama and the EPA 6


### should be commended for pushing forward with this 7


### significant step towards addressing climate 8


### change. But it's important to note that this 9


### proposal is not enough. If this country is going 10



### to adequately respo nd to the danger posed by 11


### global warming, caused by industrial emissions, 12


### and have a chance of catching up with the physics 13


### of climate change, we have to do more. And we 14


### can't be bullied or mislead by those who are more 15


### concerned with making a profit than protecting 16


### public health. Thank you. 17



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, fellows. 18


### Next, Gene Karpinski is here, and Matthew 19


### Martin, please. 20


### MR. KARPINSKI: Thank you. My name is 21


### Gene Karpinski. I'm the president of the League 2267

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### of Conservation Voters, and a coll eague of mine, 1


### a board member, is also supposed to be here, 2



### Peter Mandelstam who was not able to make it, but 3


### I'm glad to be here and I appreciate

-- let me 4


### say up front, I appreciate all the time and 5


### effort you all are putting into these hearings. 6



### It's a great event and we have members and board 7


### members and staff participating in each of the 8


### locations. But I really appreciate that. 9


### You know, inside the Beltway here there's 10


### sometimes a sense when you listen to some of the 11


### elected officials, I just saw Mr . McConnell 12


### speak, and you listen to some of the effected 13


### industries that somehow EPA is this negative 14


### force in our country, but I think you all know we 15


### appreciate the work. When you actually ask the 16


### public what they think about EPA, it's one of the 17



### most respected agencies. More favorable ratings 18


### than any elected politician around the country, 19


### just about. So we applaud the work that you do. 20



### And when you look at the data from the 21


### public about this particular proposal, it's 2268

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### overwhelmingly supportive. We' ve done surveys at 1


### individual states and battleground states and in 2


### national surveys confirmed by other surveys by 3


### other organizations, news outlets, and the rest, 4


### it's very clear that two thirds to three fourths 5


### of the public strongly supports this kind o f 6


### proposal. So we applaud you for taking that kind 7



### of action. 8



### It's also clear that most people don't 9


### even know that in fact we don't currently 10


### regulate carbon pollution. They assume, just 11


### like we regulate mercury and arsenic, other 12



### pollutants, that we're doing carbon. So the fact 13


### that we're finally moving forward, hats off to 14


### you all, and it's where the public wants you to 15


### be. And we've also asked the question whether 16


### you'd prefer congress versus the EPA to make this 17


### move to cut carbon pollution. And q uite 18


### surprisingly the numbers were even more powerful 19


### than we thought. By more than five to one the 20


### public would prefer EPA to do this job. And 21


### again, that's a hats off to all the work you've 2269

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### done for decades. And the fact that you have 1


### such powerful hi gh approval ratings is because 2


### you do the job you're supposed to do. You 3


### protect our air. You protect our water. You 4



### protect our health. So thank you for all that, 5


### and it's good to know the public is very firmly 6


### on your side in general, and then moving forward 7


### with this specific proposal. 8


### You know, I've been working on these 9


### issues personally for more than 30 years, had the 10


### pleasure of standing in this building last month 11


### when administrator McCarthy announced the 12


### proposal. Frankly from my perspective i t was one 13


### of the most important events I've ever been at 14


### and truly historic. And it's really the greatest 15


### step we've ever taking in this country for the 16



### greatest challenge we face. And now we need to 17


### complete the job. We're pleased to be a part of 18



### this process. We've already gathered, I think, 19


### over 150,000 public comments in support of the 20


### rule, in support of strengthening the rule 21


### because I think it even needs to be tighter as we 2270

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### do a final rule. But we're pleased to be a part 1


### of this process in that sense. 2



### It's sad, frankly, that some of the 3


### opponents of this rule are frankly just, you 4


### know, making things up, making exaggerations. In 5



### fact many people have seen a study that one of 6



### our other groups, the Chamber of Commerce, put 7



### out before the rule wa s proposed, suggesting the 8


### alleged billions of dollars it would cost, and 9



### the hundreds of thousands of lives it would cost. 10



### Well, that study was clearly debunked. 11


### The Washington Post gave it four Pinocchios, 12


### other outlets called it false, misleading, bo gus. 13


### Sadly, elected officials and other groups 14


### continue to use those numbers. Speaker Boehner, 15


### Mr. McConnell, other organizations have used 16


### those figures and they're just false. 17



### So we want to make sure that the record 18


### is clear, as you all did in your o wn analysis 19


### that in the long run this will both increase jobs 20


### across the country, and the public health 21


### benefits are very clear. And the cost to 2271

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### consumers over time are actually in their favor 1


### because this rule appropriately gives flexibility 2



### to the state s, relies on efficiency, relies on 3


### renewables to get the job done. 4


### So, again, it's important to reject those 5


### bogus claims and to shine the spotlight on them. 6


### And that's why frankly we are actually doing TV 7



### ads as we sit here, in all four cities where the 8


### hearings are being held, very specifically 9


### debunking the claims of the industry, of the 10


### industry opponents, that again, based on this 11


### false study, to make sure that the public knows 12



### that those claims are false, and in fact this 13


### rule will protect our healt h, will create new 14


### jobs, and will most importantly help save the 15


### planet for the long run because again, this is 16


### the most important step this government has ever 17


### taken. And we appreciate that. 18


### We'd like to see this rule strengthened 19


### along the way. I think if you look even more 20


### carefully at the assumptions about what we can do 21


### with renewables, what we can do with efficiency, 2272

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### and we can even make these proposals tighter and 1


### cut more emissions. It's a big challenge ahead 2


### of us but we've taken a huge and impo rtant step. 3


### The science on climate change is clear. We need 4


### to make progress. This is a big step forward. I 5


### thank you all for doing that. Appreciate your 6



### time. 7



### MR. NIEBLING: And we hope we'll get 8


### input from Peter and from all of your members as 9



### well, during this process. 10


### MR. KARPINSKI: Appreciate it. 11


### MR. MARTIN: Good morning. My name is 12



### Matthew Martin. I'm here on behalf of WE ACT for 13


### Environmental Justice. I want to thank you for 14


### your time today. I really appreciate the 15


### opportunity. 16



### WE ACT for Environmental Justice is a 17


### Northern Manhattan based community organization 18


### whose mission is to build healthy communities by 19


### assuring that communities of color and low

- income 20


### communities meaningfully participate in the 21



### creation of the sound and fair environ mental 2273

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### protection and health policies. 1



### I commend the EPA for its strives to 2


### address climate change through this proposed 3


### plan, and while regulating carbon is a good first 4


### step, we believe there are other factors that 5



### need to be taken into consideration. 6



### First, WE ACT recommends that the EPA 7


### conduct a thorough environmental justice analysis 8


### of this proposed plan and make it a required part 9


### of the state implementation plan that an 10


### environmental justice analysis is conducted at 11



### the state level. The current section in the plan 12


### that addresses environmental justice is 13



### insufficient. 14


### Secondly, the plan is very slanted 15


### towards cap and trade polices as being the most 16


### viable option to meet carbon emission limits. 17


### Other options like carbon pricing must be 18



### presented and promoted. If cap and trade is 19


### pursued there must be controls integrated into 20


### the process to make sure that entities are 21


### actually achieving reductions in the impacted 2274

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### communities. Offsets in allowing these companies 1


### to simply buy their way out of comp liance is 2



### unacceptable. 3


### Third, energy solutions that must benefit 4


### the community. Opportunities for clean energy 5


### jobs, education, and affordable alternative 6


### energy solutions must be available to residents 7


### of impacted communities. 8


### Finally, the state imple mentation process 9


### must include environmental justice leaders and 10


### advocates at the table. We suggest that this 11


### outreach be a significant part of the SIP 12



### process. 13


### In conclusion this year marked the 20th 14


### anniversary of an executive order called 898 on 15



### enviro nmental justice, the 40th anniversary of 16


### the Civil Rights Act, and the EPA designated the 17


### Month of February as Environmental Justice Month. 18


### I urge you to stand firm to your commitment to 19


### environmental justice and make the Clean Power 20


### Plan something that b rings justice to all. Thank 21



### you. 2275

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### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next we'd like 1


### to invite up Nikki Silvestri and Katherine 2


### Stainken please. 3



### MS. SILVESTRI: Thank you very much. My 4



### name is Nikki Silvestri. I'm the executive 5



### director of Green for All, a nation al 6


### organization focused on the environment and 7



### renewable entities. 8


### And first of all, I'd like to say thank 9


### you. Thank you for the carbon emission 10


### standards. I appreciate it, people of color 11


### appreciate it, and that's actually what I'm here 12



### to talk about today. 13


### Green for All was concerned initially 14



### about the carbon emission standards. We love the 15



### standards themselves, but we were concerned that 16



### people of color and low

- income communities were 17


### going to be targeted to come out against the 18



### carbon emission sta ndards because of things like, 19


### it's going to cost you more money, your energy 20


### bills are going to go up, it's going to cost you 21


### jobs. We were concerned about whether or not 2276

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### that message was really penetrating. 1


### And so Green for All did a poll, mainly 2



### so th at we could show that

-- we could show 3



### whether or not people of color across the country 4


### actually do support the carbon emission 5


### standards. And in the poll, we found that they 6


### do. People of color across this country, 7



### African

- Americans, Latinos, and Asian

- Americans 8


### support the carbon emission standards because we 9



### know that we're hit first and worst. 10


### We Act for Environmental Justice was just 11


### here on the stage, and environmental justice 12


### organizations for years have known that carbon 13


### pollution and things li ke it are what contribute 14


### to a number of health problems in our 15


### communities. Sixty

- eight percent of African

16


### Americans live near coal plants. So this is 17


### going to affect us pretty directly. 18


### And when we did our poll and we asked 19


### questions specifically abo ut the carbon emission 20


### standards, what we found is that 50 percent of 21


### people of color and minority voters believe that 2277

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### the carbon emission standards are going to 1


### increase their electricity bill and actually cost 2


### jobs. 3



### However, they also, 75 percent of 4



### mi nority voters also believe that it's going to 5


### spur innovation in the long

- term, and create 6


### jobs, and eventually lower their bills. 7


### So the message that I want to communicate 8


### today is that minority voters in America actually 9


### have a complex understanding of t he carbon 10


### emission standards. We're willing to accept 11


### potential short

- term cost if that means in the 12



### long

- term our communities are going to be 13


### healthier and it's going to actually get us jobs. 14


### Then when we asked them about their major 15



### concerns about the carbon emission standards, 16



### what they would want to see happen to make sure 17


### that it was successful, the very first thing at 18


### the top of their list was training for those who 19


### are currently in the dirty energy economy so that 20


### they could transition into a clea n energy 21



### economy. 2278

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### We recently heard a story of a man 1


### working in Illinois with varied hours and 2


### exhausting work who was laid off because of the 3


### severe drought in the Midwest. Water is in short 4


### supply and coal mine operations use lots of water 5



### to produce th eir product. So restrictions forced 6


### the mine to cut back production. 7


### Fortunately there was a solar company in 8


### St. Louis who recognized the worker's strong 9


### ethic. But if the owner had simply hired based 10


### on experience, this gentleman would not have 11



### gotten the job. So we want more stories like 12



### that to happen. We want to see that people of 13



### color and low

- income people who are employed in 14


### the dirty energy economy can actually make a 15


### transition into the renewable economy. 16


### Finally, what I want to communicate i s 17


### that minority voters across America support the 18



### current emission standards because it's a moral 19


### issue. That was at the very top of the list when 20


### we asked why do we think climate solutions is 21


### important to you. It's important to us because 2279

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### we want to lea ve the world a better place for our 1


### children. That's the number one message that 2



### penetrates. 3


### So I want to wrap up by saying that now 4


### the devil is in the details. We agree in 5


### principle that we need to cut carbon emissions 6


### and in practice we want to do tha t in a way that 7


### actually contributes to the health of our 8


### communities in a way that allows people to 9


### transition from one economy to the next renewable 10


### economy. And we want to do that in a way that 11


### increases our economic security as vulnerable 12


### populations. And now I feel like it's on the 13



### states. 14


### We want to get these carbon emission 15



### standards passed and we want to make sure that as 16


### the states implement them, that it's good for all 17



### of us. Thank you. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 19


### MS. STAINKEN: Good morning. My name is 20


### Katherine Stainken and I’m here today on behalf 21


### of the Solar Energy Industry's Association, or 2280

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### SEIA, the solar industry's leading trade 1


### association. We represent over 1,000 solar 2


### companies throughout the supply chain, including 3


### project develop ers, manufacturers, installers, 4



### and others. 5



### First, I'd like to thank the staff 6



### assembled here and the Environmental Protection 7


### Agency for providing this forum to elicit 8



### feedback on the Clean Power Plan. We applaud the 9


### EPA for their hard work and diligence in crafting 10


### this immensely important regulation. 11



### SEIA generally supports the Clean Power 12


### Plan and is in support of a flexible approach 13



### that allows states to take advantage of solar as 14


### a compliance option as part of a balanced energy 15


### portfolio. Addition ally SEIA agrees with the EPA 16


### that renewable energy is part of the best system 17


### implementation reduction. Many states have 18


### proven that system wide programs that require the 19


### implementation for renewable energy are extremely 20


### effective at reducing carbon emis sions in an 21



### achievable, efficient, and cost

- effective manner, 2281

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### and SEIA has already provided additional comment 1



### on this to the EPA. 2


### Solar energy should be one of the first 3


### sources that a state considers when determining 4


### how it will hit its carbon pollution targets 5



### because solar emits zero carbon emissions and 6



### offers states a host of additional methods. 7


### In 2014 alone solar is expected to 8


### generate more than 20,000 gigawatt hours of 9


### energy. This is equivalent of avoiding 13.8 10


### million metric tons of carbon poll ution in 2014. 11


### Because the use of solar energy avoids the 12


### burning of fossil fuels, solar avoids many of the 13


### health issues attributed in part to fossil fuel 14


### emissions including bronchitis, asthma, and heart 15



### disease. 16


### Solar is already cost competitive with 17


### new fossil generation in certain circumstances 18


### and has become a competitor with existing fossil 19


### generation as well, making solar an attractive 20


### compliance option. Nationally the average price 21



### of a residential PV installation declined to 9 2282

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### percent in Q

- 4 2 013 over Q

- 4 2012. Between 2006 1


### and 2013 the capacity rate of average installed 2


### price of PV fell from $7.97 a watt to $2.59 a 3



### watt. 4


### These falling costs and the potential for 5


### huge carbon reductions through solar make an 6


### attractive component of a balanced e nergy 7


### portfolio within a state compliance plan. But 8


### the benefits don't stop there. 9


### As part of a balanced energy portfolio 10


### solar can improve grid reliability and provide 11


### significant relief to existing energy 12


### infrastructure by reducing transmission losses 13


### and relieving congestion on the grid. 14


### As if all this isn't enough, states will 15


### find solar energy an attractive compliance option 16


### as solar helps reduce water consumption in 17


### comparison with traditional fossil fuel sources, 18


### and due to the wide variety of s olar 19


### technologies, solar an be installed rapidly, a 20


### key piece in meeting compliance deadlines. 21


### Here in the Delaware, Virginia, and 2283

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### Maryland, and D.C. area the solar industry was 1


### over 5,200 people across 392 solar companies. 2


### These companies are at every le vel of the solar 3


### supply chain representing manufacturers, 4


### contractors, project developers, and engineers. 5


### The strong economic impact here in the 6


### larger D.C. metro region is representative of the 7


### positive impacts solar is having across the 8



### country. In fa ct, according to the 2013 solar 9


### job census there are nearly 143,000 solar workers 10


### in the U.S. A 20 percent increase over 11


### employment totals in 2012. 12


### With all this being said we believe there 13



### are certain areas of the Clean Power Plan that 14



### must be modified to accurately depict today's 15


### solar market. Specifically in regards to 16


### building block three and renewable energy, the 17



### solar data used does not reflect current solar 18


### capacity or market projections. 19


### Current solar capacity today is already 20


### far exceeding th e estimates that EPA has used for 21


### 2030 state projections. The EPA must also 2284

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### recognize distributed generation solar, as well 1


### as solar heating and cooling technologies, and 2


### its renewable energy state targets. 3



### Furthermore, since 2012, the baseline 4



### unit the EPA has relied on for its solar data, 5


### the solar industry has seen rapid expansion and 6



### growth across all 50 states. We encourage the 7


### EPA to recognize this tremendous growth in solar 8


### and to use an updated baseline year relative to 9



### when the final rule will be released. SEIA will 10


### be submitting detailed comments on those points. 11


### Again, SEIA applauds the EPA for their 12


### leadership and fantastic work on the Clean Power 13


### Plan. And we look forward to working with the 14



### EPA on these issues and with the state 15



### stakehold ers as solar can help states to achieve 16


### an optimal long

- term strategy for each state's 17


### economy and environment. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. And would you 19


### please just spell your last name for the 20



### reporter? 21



### MS. STAINKEN: Sure. It's S

- T

- A

- I

- N

- K

- E

- 2285

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### N. 1



### MR. NI EBLING: Thank you. Thank you, 2



### both. 3



### Next up we have Ashley Goff and Stacy 4


### Davis, please. 5


### MS. GOFF: My name is Ashley Goff and I'm 6


### a pastor at Church of the Pilgrims, a 7


### congregation in the Presbyterian Church U.S.A. in 8


### DuPont Circle, in Washington, D.C

. 9


### Sixty thousand honeybees call the 10


### backyard of Church of the Pilgrims home. Four 11


### honeybee hives are part of our urban garden 12


### called Sacred Greens. Our honeybees pollinate 13


### the vegetables and fruits of our garden, the 14


### forest oasis right next to us, Rock C reek Park, 15



### and the fruits, flowers, and trees of our DuPont 16


### neighbors. 17


### If you are within three miles of Church 18


### of the Pilgrims there's a good chance our 19



### honeybees have transformed the flowers of your 20


### tomato plants to tomato fruit. The eggplants, 21



### green pep pers, basil, beans, butternut squash, 2286

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### and carrots we grow in Sacred Greens, our urban 1



### garden, goes to create hunger meals for our 2



### table, our lunch every Sunday afternoon for 30 or 3


### so hungry neighbors. 4



### Our newly planted apple and pear trees 5



### and fruit bushes or permaculture, will soon offer 6


### a free healthy snack for anyone walking by our 7



### garden. 8


### On Sundays our garden is poignantly 9


### alive. Honeybees buzzing around seeking pollen 10


### and nectar and hungry neighbors sharing in 11



### casseroles of fresh eggplants, tomatoe s, and 12


### basil. In that moment our backyard is host and 13


### home to living beings our society thinks are 14


### disposable, honeybees and hungry homeless folks. 15



### Honeybees are the must vulnerable of 16


### insects threatened by colony collapse disorder, 17


### an ecological crisis c reated by human agency with 18


### pesticides and climate change. Hungry people are 19


### the most socially vulnerable of community, 20


### starving off the lack of access to affordable and 21



### healthy food. 2287

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### Since 2006 commercial beekeepers have 1


### lost 30 percent of their hives du e to colony 2


### collapse disorder. According to our friends over 3



### at the USDA, about one mouthful in three of our 4


### diet is directly or indirectly benefited from 5


### honeybee pollination. 6


### According to D.C. Hunger Solutions, in 7



### 2008 to 2012, 30.5 percent of househo lds with 8


### children in the District of Columbia said they 9


### were unable to afford healthy food. This is the 10


### second worst rate in the nation, exceeded only by 11


### Mississippi. 12


### Climate change suffocates God's planetary 13


### design. We designed our backyard because of our 14


### trust in the Holy One, and in a Christian ethic 15


### with a moral vision. Our garden symbolizes how 16


### we are to live as God's people, in God's way, and 17


### shows our intention for living. 18



### Psalm 104 states we are to renew the face 19


### of the planet. And right now the planet is poor 20


### from climate pollution impacting humans and 21


### insects, like the honeybee. 2288

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### Oikos, in the Greek is word for house or 1



### household. Oikos is also root for the words 2


### ecology and economics. For Christians of the 3



### Ancient Church, Oikos was not l imited to the 4


### private home but was referring to the planet 5



### itself as the world house, or God's home. 6


### Oikos sets Church of the Pilgrim's 7


### intention on how we are to be a sacred neighbor, 8



### that we are a shared household with all who are 9



### born, and belong to a ll who live. We cohabitate. 10



### We are humans and we all live into each other's 11



### life, and we die into each other's death in a 12


### complex pattern of relationships that can nourish 13


### or destroy creatures like the honeybee and 14



### vulnerable humans. 15



### There's no way aroun d our 16



### interconnectedness. We are a one household 17


### tethered across inhabited landscapes. It's the 18


### way of God and life. 19



### Oikos, the household, also assumes 20


### limits. The wellbeing of the planet doesn't come 21



### from a short

- term vision of life, with a never

- 2289

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### endin g inhaling of goods, services, and energy. 1



### Oikos demands limits on how we are to live as 2


### humans on the planet. Oikos demands a long

- term 3


### vision that incorporates how we can imagine to be 4


### future generations, particularly the future 5


### generations of honeybee s and folks who are 6


### starving. 7



### A long

- term vision of life calls us to 8


### live as part of the web of life, prophetically 9


### reducing carbon production that exacerbates 10


### climate disruption that impacts the life of 11


### insects, food production, health, and the sheer 12



### be auty of nature. 13


### The role of the EPA is to regulate the 14


### commons. At Church of the Pilgrims we are doing 15


### that; tending to our own eco

- location with 16


### intentionality to reflect our place in society 17


### and God's home. Church of the Pilgrims charges 18



### the EPA to c are for the household, the whole 19


### house, by requiring 30 percent reduction in 20


### carbon pollution from power plants by 2030. 21


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. I live near 2290

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### DuPont Circle, so I'll thank you at least for the 1


### flowers outside my building. 2



### MS. GOFF: You're welcome. 3



### MR. NIEBLING: Please. 4


### MS. DAVIS: Thank you for the opportunity 5


### to share our views with you today. My name is 6


### Stacy Davis and I'm a Senior Program Manager with 7


### the Center for Clean Air Policy, or CCAP, founded 8


### almost 30 years ago by Republica n and Democratic 9


### governors seeking solutions to address acid rain. 10


### CCAP helps policy makers around the world 11


### develop, promote, and implement innovative 12



### market

- based solutions to major climate air 13


### quality and energy problems that balance both 14



### environmental and economic interests. 15


### Today I have two main points and a few 16


### initial suggestions. My first point, EPA hit the 17


### mark in defining the best system of emission 18


### reduction. EPA's approach of assigning emissions 19


### reductions opportunities from four well 20



### underst ood technology building blocks on the 21


### basis of state specific characteristics, is fair 2291

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### and reasonable. This approach acknowledges the 1


### uneven distribution of mitigation opportunities 2


### across the country and recognizes that states 3



### have acted early; some stat es have acted early to 4


### deploy low carbons solutions. 5



### Moreover, the approach shows how the 6


### standards can be met in each state using 7


### demonstrated technologies. In addition the way 8


### that EPA potentially did not max out the 9


### available building blocks in each st ate, offers a 10


### substantial cushion allowing states or facilities 11


### to ramp up use of preferred mitigation options 12


### while using less of others. The approach nicely 13


### accommodates remaining useful like and other 14



### site

- specific considerations. Similarly the fact 15



### t hat EPA did not factor in other well understood 16


### technological solutions in defining the best 17


### system of emission reduction, things like 18


### combined power and building codes, offers even 19


### more wiggle room, though these solutions can also 20


### be used to justify tight ening the standards a bit 21



### more. 2292

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### My second point. Proposed rule strikes 1



### the sensible balance between effectiveness and 2


### flexibility in reducing emissions from existing 3


### power plants by an estimated 30 percent below 4


### 2005 levels by 2030, the proposed rule achi eves 5


### meaningful emissions reductions. 6


### While the science demands even bigger 7


### emissions reductions over time to stay on a path 8


### to a global 2 degrees Celsius goal, this rule 9


### offers an important down payment. The proposal 10



### has demonstrated to the internation al community 11


### the U.S. is serious about making emissions 12


### reductions and it has improved our standing in 13


### the international negotiations. 14



### The proposed rule also offers a number of 15


### implementation pathways so that each state can 16


### select the approach most likely to work for its 17



### own sources and citizens. Each state can factor 18


### in range of state specific considerations in 19


### defining the form of the standard and in 20


### allocating the standard to individual sources. 21


### Moreover, states have the flexibility to 2293

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### allow compliance through any measure that 1


### displaces the emissions from effective electric 2


### generating units and can join with other states 3


### to comply on a regional basis using a multi

- state 4



### approach. 5


### In making use of these flexibilities over 6


### a long compliance horizon, stat es can develop 7


### strategies to minimize costs and account for 8


### factors such as reliability and remaining useful 9



### life. 10


### And finally I want to offer three 11


### specific suggestions. First, to prevent states 12


### from gaining the mass based standard by 13


### overestimating thei r business as usual growth in 14


### electric demand, or by exaggerating transmission 15


### constraints that might overestimate business as 16


### usual capacity factors in high emitting units, we 17


### strongly suggest that EPA establish a presumptive 18



### mass standard for each state using consistent and 19


### transparent assumptions. 20



### Second, to prevent states from double

21


### counting emissions reductions, complete energy 2294

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### solutions such as energy efficiency and renewable 1


### energy, EPA should provide further guidance under 2


### a range of plausible scen arios. 3


### For example, EPA should offer guidance to 4


### states on how they should treat emissions 5


### reductions from energy efficiency measures that 6



### they pay for, but where some or all of the 7


### emissions reductions of the power grid are 8



### modeled to occur in a differe nt state. 9


### Similarly EPA should offer guidance on 10



### how to treat emissions reduction in the scenario 11


### where both the generating state and buying state 12


### might try to claim the Co2 emissions reductions 13


### and renewable energy credit. 14



### And third, if states allow co mbining 15


### power to be used for their means of compliance, 16


### this will lower the cost of compliance for the 17


### clean power plant, while helping industries that 18


### use CHP lower their energy costs and improve 19


### economic competitiveness in the local market 20



### place. 21



### EPA s hould facilitate use of CHP as a 2295

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### means of compliance by defining approaches to 1


### crediting. Such approaches should recognize the 2


### inherent efficiency of the technology in 3


### producing two streams of energy, electricity and 4


### thermal energy, using the same fuel in put. Cap's 5


### IPL analysis of Nordic's moderate constrained 6


### efficiency scenario, by adding CHP as a 7


### compliance option found that nearly 10 gigawatts 8


### of new CHP in total are likely to come in by 9


### 2030, and the CHP could support compliance with 10



### the Clean Power Plan. 11



### Moreover, we found that the incremental 12



### effect of the one level standard is to drive new 13


### CHP in states facing higher litigation costs and 14


### the opportunity can be greatest in manufacturing 15



### states where there is considerable technical 16


### potential. 17



### But thank you for this chance to share 18


### these ideas with you. 19



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Stacy. Next 20


### please, John Noel and Monica Ward. Monica. 21


### MR. NOEL: Just how many? Ten minutes? 2296

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### My name is John Noel, I am a natural gas 1


### campaigns coordinator for the Cle an Water Action. 2


### We are a rural organization of diverse people and 3


### groups joined together to protect our 4


### environment, health, economic wellbeing, and 5


### community health. 6


### First I want to recognize EPA's 7



### courageous efforts to address the threat that 8



### climate change poses to all of us in this room, 9


### and those unborn. Tackling the largest source of 10


### carbon dioxide emissions in the planet, the 11


### political climate is no doubt a challenge and the 12


### EPA deserves a tremendous amount of praise for 13


### getting this work starte d. 14


### Clean Water Action strongly supports the 15


### Clean Power Plan to reduce carbon emissions by 30 16



### percent from 2005 levels and the subsequent 17


### benefits these reductions will generate. 18



### This is an historic moment in time and 19


### I'm glad to be sitting here testif ying before my 20


### government which is putting out this rule tasked 21


### with the acknowledgement that our current energy 2297

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### trajectory is unsustainable. 1


### Clean Water Action also recognizes that 2



### the rule must go further and that EPA can play a 3


### larger role in tilting the rudder of the economy 4



### towards a robust clean energy landscape. 5


### Acknowledging and correcting the obvious 6


### negative effects of free

- flowing carbon pollution 7


### into the atmosphere is step one. 8


### Step two is fully comprehending the scope 9



### of the climate crisis and setting more emissions 10



### goals so that we can exceed our country's 11


### commitment to reduce emissions by 17 percent by 12


### 2020. Reductions are far more necessary to keep 13



### the global average surface temperatures from 14


### rising more than two degrees Celsius. 15



### Clean Water Action works in many stages 16


### which I've seen a surge in natural gas 17


### development. As part of its job I've worked to 18


### address the very real impact particularly on low

19


### income communities across the country. As such I 20



### have concerns about how states may decide how to 21


### meet their emission reduction targets without 2298

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### specific zero carbon targets for the EPA. 1


### While I recognize that this rule is 2


### specifically geared towards reducing smoke stack 3


### Co2 emissions, energy decisions are not made in a 4



### vacuum. The appr oach states take in order to 5



### achieve their reductions is a result of the 6



### framework set by EPA. 7


### As it stands right now rural American 8



### communities should brace themselves from an 9


### ongoing natural gas campaign at the expense of 10


### their air, water quality, and co mmunity health. 11


### Preliminary analysis from the American 12


### Natural Gas Association predicted that the Clean 13


### Power Plan may contribute an additional three to 14


### 10 billion cubic feet per day of natural gas in 15


### the electricity supply. Is a slightly more 16



### efficient natural gas combined cycle plant the 17


### answer to our greenhouse gas emission level? 18


### While emissions from the smokestack may 19


### favor natural gas combustion over burning coal, 20


### the greenhouse gas lifecycle of natural gas from 21


### extraction through combustion mitig ate many 2299

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### climate benefits. This type of energy is being 1


### sold to us all. The debate on fugitive emissions 2


### is far from settled and these plants should not 3


### hinge in increasing natural gas production when 4


### its benefits are not proven and its local impacts 5



### are so potentially toxic. 6


### Furthermore, on Monday the Associated 7


### Press reported that the pollution savings from 8


### coal to gas switch have been completely wiped 9


### out, due to increased coal exports. The story 10



### went on to note that the carbon dioxide contained 11


### in ju st one ship departing from Norfolk, Virginia 12


### export terminal equals the annual emissions of a 13


### small American power plant. This is the reality 14


### of the situation we're living in, and the reason 15


### why we are pulling so hard for deeper emission 16



### cuts. Pollution is getting outsourced while we 17


### appear to be improving our situation at home. 18



### We encourage the EPA and the 19


### Administration clearly signal to states that the 20


### flexibility built into the Clean Power Plan 21


### should be met through increased capacity for 22100

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### renewable en ergy projects. EPA must emphasize 1


### the use of zero carbon energy sources in these 2


### state flexibility plans. A healthy and 3



### sustainable future is what we all deserve, let 4


### the dissenting voices fade into or give 5


### irrelevance here today as the rest of America 6



### f aces the climate challenge head on. Thank you. 7



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much. 8


### Jim Lyon and Ellen Garfield. Ellen or 9



### Monica Ward. 10


### MR. LYON: Ten minutes as well, right? 11



### MR. NIEBLING: You already used four of 12



### those. 13



### MR. LYON: No, I'll be extre mely brief. 14


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. 15


### And I do appreciate staff stamina. And doing it 16


### right to make sure that the public at large has 17


### an opportunity to engage on this issue. It's 18


### very important and I know this is a lot of work 19



### for you all. 20


### My name is Jim Lyon. I live in Virginia. 21



### I also work for the National Wildlife Federation. 22101

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### I strongly support EPA's actions to set limits 1


### and carbon pollution on existing power plants in 2


### order to address the growing impacts of global 3



### climate c hange. 4


### I'm here today wearing two hats. I'm a 5


### professional who works to protect wildlife for 6



### our children's future. I'm also a father of two. 7


### My wife and I have always worked hard to make 8


### sure that our kids are safe and that we've got a 9


### better life to g ive them in the future. So we 10


### all have an obligation to protect our children 11


### and the future generations from the impact of 12


### climate change, but we also have an obligation to 13


### protect wildlife and natural resources that are 14



### on the front lines of climate chan ge. Wildlife 15


### is the first to feel the impacts from a warming 16



### climate because it affects their habitat, and the 17


### changes are already happening. 18


### Scientists are telling us that unless we 19


### change the course that we're on, quite a few 20


### species, unable to adapt to the changes, are 21


### going to go extinct in the coming years and the 22102

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### natural habitat that other species depend on will 1


### be altered in radical ways, whether it's the 2


### permanent drought that's causing desertification, 3


### rising sea levels that's going to destroy 4



### w etlands and freshwater estuaries, radical 5


### diminishment of native vegetation and plant life 6


### and fragile ecosystems, the accelerated expansion 7


### of invasive pests, and plant species that push 8


### out native species. 9


### Just as wildlife and habitat are impacted 10



### by a w arming world, so of course is the human 11


### habitat affected as well. And you've heard much, 12


### and you will hear more, I'm sure, in testimony 13


### about what it means to people in communities and 14



### what it will mean to all of our future if we 15


### don't begin to take actio n now. 16


### EPA's Clean Power Plan is a major step in 17


### the right direction. This plan will help speed 18


### the way to a future that as we invest more in 19


### wildlife friendly sources of clean energy and 20


### less in fuels that pollute our air, water, and 21



### harm the climate. 22103

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### By reducing the reliance on coal burning 1


### power plants in the U.S. the Clean Power Plan 2


### will protect wildlife by reducing not only carbon 3


### pollution but other harmful pollutants that come 4


### with it, like mercury that poison fish and 5



### threaten those that eat it. 6


### So as you finalize these standards please 7


### do so with the deepest reductions possible by 8


### requiring states to use wildlife friendly 9


### renewable energy and energy efficiency, not just 10


### simply more natural gas. The recent boom in 11


### natural gas development in the U.S. has also 12


### skyrocketed methane leakage into the atmosphere, 13


### which if course is compounding the greenhouse gas 14


### challenge in front of us. 15


### So we need to move quickly towards a 16


### clean energy future that helps us maintain the 17


### climate, but also powers our fu ture economy. All 18


### of us here either have kids or are part of 19



### families that have kids. And this is a national 20


### gut check time. We've got to do it for their 21



### future. 22104

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### So thank you for the opportunity to 1



### supply. 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. In response to 3



### y our first point we noticed that an immense 4


### amount of time was spent on that. 5



### MS. LYON: Thank you. 6



### MR. NIEBLING: Monica Ward or Ellen 7



### Barfield. 8



### Monica Ward and Ellen Barfield. 9


### MS. BARFIELD: Good morning, ladies and 10



### Gentlemen. I'm Ellen Barfield from Baltimore. 11



### I'm a full

- time peace and justice activist, but 12


### also participate in a lot of environmental work. 13


### I'm honored to speak here today in 14


### support of a planned government project. EPA's 15


### Clean Power Plan is very long overdue, but 16


### finally a good step toward reining in carbon 17


### dioxide emissions from power plants. 18


### Though enforcement continues to be a 19



### problem we do have laws on the books to regulate 20


### all kinds of damaging substances. Mercury and 21



### sulfur in the air, lead, cadmium and chromium and 22105

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### so many ot hers in water and soil, poisonous flame 1


### retardants in children's clothes and bedding. 2


### The difficulty with carbon dioxide is 3


### that it doesn't immediately poison or asphyxiate 4


### an individual so it's easier to ignore the 5


### growing climate disruption it's causin g when you 6



### have a financial reason to do so. But the vast 7


### majority of scientists now, except those in the 8


### employ of the fossil fuel industry, agree that 9


### Co2 released into the atmosphere in massive 10


### quantities is warming the Earth and causing 11


### climate change

. 12


### In my own hometown of Baltimore, 13


### Maryland, this year's weather is distinctly 14


### abnormal. Lots of rain and very cool. Last 15


### night it was 60 degrees. In late July? 16


### My husband and I are fortunate to live 17



### above the falls of the Falls River, about 300 18



### feet in elevation, so flooding does not threaten 19


### us soon, but in a port city many neighbor's homes 20


### are at risk and other friends in coastal Virginia 21


### are already facing losing their property. 22106

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### My father and nephew live in the 1



### panhandle of Texas, and a daughter

- in

- law and her 2


### family in Oklahoma. For years now they have seen 3


### prairie fire scorch thousands of square miles, 4


### kill grazing cattle, and threaten cities. The 5


### entire U.S., Southwest, is experiencing over a 6


### decade of drought and may become unlivable when 7



### grou nd water reserves are pumped dry. 8



### The Colorado River, which serves seven 9


### states and waters the huge fruit and vegetable 10


### fields of California, has not flowed all the way 11


### to the Pacific Ocean in years and now approaches 12


### total depletion. 13


### Though it seems I have strong lungs I 14


### have witnessed my husband, my father, and my 15


### brother, all struggle to catch their next breath 16


### while having asthma attacks. Air quality impacts 17



### from coal

- fired power plants are a serious threat 18



### to so many people's health. 19



### The American Lung Association gives 20


### Baltimore an F grade for ozone, and a D for 21


### particulates in the air. In a coastal city air 22107

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### that bad is shocking. But with so many coal 1


### fired plants dumping massive pollution into the 2


### prevailing winds to the northeast, toward 3



### Balti more, along with incinerators and far too 4


### many cars, Baltimore air is pretty terrible and 5


### so many people suffer from it. 6


### The other large group resisting ending 7


### the fossil fuel era is unions. They sadly are 8


### very shortsighted, clinging desperately to old 9


### jo bs instead of embracing the obvious green 10


### energy future. Solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, 11



### not natural gas and not nuclear. But there are 12



### so many great green ways to generate energy. 13


### Retrofitting dirty old fossil fueled power plants 14


### and insulating and tig htening up existing homes 15


### and other buildings will provide so many green 16


### and morally clean jobs. 17



### Unions and workers can be some of the 18


### best advocates for the green future, if they are 19


### educated and inspired. 20



### Please EPA, stand by and strengthen your 21



### propos ed Clean Power Plan and help workers and 22108

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### citizens understand the great opportunities that 1


### our society faces. 2


### Please set firmly in place, at least a 40 3


### percent reduction in Co2 emissions soon. Know 4


### that a majority supports you. Please stand firm 5


### against the nay Sayers, do the right thing and 6


### move quickly to even stronger limits on Co2 and 7


### other pollution. Thank you. 8


### MS. WARD: Good morning and thank you for 9


### having me here today to discuss the importance of 10


### strong carbon emissions standards to small 11



### busi ness owners. My name is Monica Ward and I'm 12


### the owner of Eskabubble, a marketing, consulting, 13


### and contract services firm based in Virginia 14



### Beach. 15


### Climate change and clean energy standards 16


### are important issues facing my business and many 17



### others across the nation. Small employers like 18



### me support strong clean energy standards because 19


### we realize that carbon pollution is linked to 20


### climate change and extreme weather. And more and 21


### more extreme weather has been impacting our 22109

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### bottom lines. 1


### Small Business Majori ty a national 2


### nonprofit small organization, found that climate 3


### change and extreme weather are causing such 4


### financial hardships for small employers that the 5


### majority of entrepreneurs affected by an extreme 6


### weather event have experienced a significant 7



### financ ial impact to their companies. And some 8



### have had to lay off employees. 9


### Additionally, the vast majority of 10


### respondents have had to close their businesses 11



### for up to a week after extreme weather, and some 12



### were forced to close for as long as 14 to 30 13



### days. 14


### I can tell you firsthand just how 15


### devastating extreme weather can be to a small 16


### business. My business was hit especially hard by 17


### the extreme winter storms we experienced this 18


### year across the mid

- Atlantic. I was forced to 19


### postpone and reschedule delivery on 50 percent of 20



### contracted services, which reduced our time 21



### available overall. 22110

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### The end result was significant revenue 1


### loss in the first quarter of 2014, the most 2


### crucial calendar quarter to my business. What's 3



### more, since 2011 I've had to take time for 4



### r unning typical business aspects in order to 5


### modify safety protocols multiple times and create 6


### an extreme weather preparation plan. 7



### Whenever my team works outdoors for 8


### marketing events, I need to guarantee that we're 9


### prepared in case of extreme weather beca use we 10


### are simultaneously responsible for the safety of 11


### each other, our customers, and the public. 12



### I believe that small business owners will 13


### find themselves increasing their preparations for 14


### extreme weather as it unfortunately might become 15



### all too common . This is because research shows 16


### small businesses are particularly at risk from 17


### the effects of climate change and the extreme 18



### weather it causes. In fact, an estimated 25 19


### percent of small to mid

- sized businesses do not 20


### reopen following a major disaster. Most small 21


### businesses have a single location which makes 22111

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### them much more vulnerable to loss, compared to 1


### larger businesses that have backup resources at 2


### multiple locations. 3



### As a result small businesses are more 4


### heavily impacted by power outages, the absence of 5


### employees, supply chain interruptions, rising 6



### insurance cost, and more. 7


### It should come as no surprise, then that 8


### the small business majority found in a national 9



### poll that 52 percent of entrepreneurs support the 10


### EPA regulated carbon emissions from exi sting 11


### power plants that cause climate change, and 76 12


### percent are in favor of requiring new power 13


### plants to reduce carbon pollution. 14


### Along with helping to combat climate 15



### change, stronger clean energy standards can help 16


### create new business opportunities for small 17


### businesses. Small businesses, the majority of 18


### which are not required to comply with carbon 19



### emission standards themselves, will benefit as 20


### they supply the services and products to help 21


### those required to meet them. 22112

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### In fact 87 percent of small busine ss 1


### owners said that improving innovation and energy 2


### efficiency are good ways to increase prosperity 3



### for small businesses. Small business owners want 4


### innovative policies that will help mitigate 5


### extreme weather brought about by climate change. 6



### Many small b usiness owners like myself believe 7


### strong energy standards are good for business and 8



### the economy because they cut waste, reduce energy 9


### cost, and create business opportunities. 10


### We believe clean energy can help 11


### stimulate the economy and create new jobs now, 12


### all while addressing the issues that are 13


### contributing to extreme weather. Despite strong 14


### small business support, adverse to set standards 15


### reducing carbon emissions have been blocked over 16



### and over. 17



### That comes at the expense of all of our 18



### futures. So i t's important for the EPA to know 19


### that its proposal to limit carbon emissions from 20


### existing power plants is strongly supported by 21


### the small business community. 22113

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### God’s speed. Thank you. 1


### MR. NIEBLING: Monica, I didn't quite 2


### catch the name of your business . Do you mind 3


### repeating it and spelling it? 4



### MS. WARD: Not at all. It's Eskabubble, 5



### E

- S

- K

- A and then B

- U

- B

- B

- L

- E, all one word. 6



### MR. NIEBLING: Okay. 7



### MS. WARD: It's a made up name

-- I'll 8


### share this with you. It's from

-- that's the 9


### name of my imaginary childhood friend, who was a 10


### bubble fish from the ocean who went around doing 11


### good clean green things all the time. 12



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much. 13



### MS. WARD: Thank you. 14


### MR. NIEBLING: Next up I would like to 15


### invite Braden Boulanger and Hiruy Hadgu. 16



### MR. BOULANGER: Good afternoon. My name 17


### is Braden Boulanger. I work with TransAlta. 18


### Particularly I'm here representing the TransAlta 19


### Energy Market in the U.S. We are a power 20


### marketer that operates in Western United States. 21


### Here to speak today just a bout some of the 22114

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### effects we see that we'd like to talk about for 1


### consideration as you develop your plan. 2


### One thing we'd really like EPA to 3


### consider is just the effects overlapping or 4


### nonregionalized programs. Kind of some of the 5



### effects that could happe n if one state chooses 6


### not to link up with other states, or if there's 7


### plans that overlap or are not fully harmonized 8



### with each other. 9


### When we look at the electricity industry, 10


### particularly a lot of the merchants' facilities, 11


### it's very difficult to thin k about scenarios in 12


### which certain states might have requirements that 13



### are not fluid with other states. That's both 14


### from a potential carbon trading perspective, but 15


### also through the ability to trade electricity. 16


### A particular example right now is 17



### Californ ia's cap and trade program, regulates 18


### imported electricity and charges a, for lack of a 19


### better term, an import tariff for the carbon 20


### associated with the imports. 21


### One thing we'd like you to consider is 22115

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### just the effects of a program like that and how 1



### you t hink the EPA could work with the different 2



### states to make sure that if a state such as 3


### Washington or Oregon is meeting their 4


### requirements under your program through their set 5


### plan, how the EPA can play a role in making sure 6


### that you're not having to not on ly meet your 7


### requirements in the state, but also how that 8


### program will work with the other markets around. 9


### So our particular interest is working 10


### with the EPA and making sure that there is a 11


### common currency or a common understanding about 12



### how to convert o ne type of carbon program to 13


### another program to ensure that there is at least 14


### a mechanism for fluidity between any sort of 15



### carbon currency that emerges, and help that work 16


### into the power trading industry. So, thank you 17


### for your time. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. We would 19


### welcome technical comments on how that accounting 20



### will work. 21



### MR. BOULANGER: Very good. Thank you. 22116

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### MR. HADGU: Good morning. My name is 1


### Hiruy Hadgu. I'm a nuclear engineer and I'm also 2



### an environmentalist. 3


### Let me thank you for allowing m e to speak 4


### today. Let me first say that I support the EPA's 5


### efforts in reducing carbon and ensuring a cleaner 6


### environment for us and future generations. 7



### I'm here to speak about nuclear power and 8


### its immense potential to help states meet their 9



### goals of u sing more environmentally friendly 10



### energy resources. Currently nuclear power 11


### produces 20 percent of our electricity and two

12


### thirds of our carbon free electricity. 13


### Three concerns are normally cited when 14


### considering nuclear power as a resource. It's 15



### cost , it's so

- called waste, and risks of 16


### proliferation. 17


### The economic cost of climate change and 18


### inaction computed using the discount rate 19


### methodology far outweighs the initial cost of 20


### nuclear power. Considering the ability of 21


### nuclear power plants to withsta nd extreme climate 22117

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### conditions like this past winter and Hurricane 1


### Sandy, this is an investment that should be made, 2


### and it's worth making. 3



### The so

- called waste that comes out of 4



### U.S. power plants represents 90 to 95 percent of 5


### untapped energy if recycled or reprocessed. In 6


### the meantime we currently have proven technology 7


### that can store them in dry canisters until a 8


### comprehensive energy solution is reached by 9



### Congress. 10



### Proliferation has not been and will not 11


### be an issue with continued diligence in 12


### nonprolife ration efforts. Moreover, countries 13


### such as China are going full steam ahead with 14


### their plans of building more power plants, 15


### nuclear power plants, despite such concerns. 16


### France has been using nuclear power from 17



### the 1970s and they currently produce 70 perc ent 18


### of all their electricity from nuclear. 19


### I am calling for rules that make it more 20



### favorable for nuclear because I believe it is 21


### truly the most green, sustainable, reliable, and 22118

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### carbon free resource we currently have. Thank 1



### you. 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you . Would you mind 3


### spelling your name for the reporter, please? 4



### MR. HADGU: Sure. H

- I

- R

- U

- Y, first name. 5



### Last name, H

- A

- D

- G

- U. 6



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. And Dawone 7


### Robinson, please. 8


### MR. ROBINSON: Good morning. My name is 9



### Dawone Robinson. I am

-- 10



### MR. NIEBLING: I'm sorry. 11



### MR. ROBINSON: That's fine. I can

-- 12



### it's a lot. 13


### Dawone Robinson, I am the Virginia Policy 14


### Director for the Chesapeake Climate Action at 15


### Work. My organization is comprised of about 16


### 10,000 supporters in the State of Virginia, all 17



### of whom are concerned about the effects of 18


### worsening climate change and have been pretty 19


### disappointed, I would say, at least up until 20


### recently, with the inaction of our nation's 21



### leaders and rule makers and other officials in 22119

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### dealing with climate change on a national scale. 1



### But I want to thank you very much for 2


### your time and for convening this process to hear 3


### public comments on these important carbon rules. 4


### As I mentioned before, our organization 5


### works on policy matters relating to climate 6


### change in Virg inia. Coastal Virginia is ground 7


### zero, so to speak, for the climate crisis. 8


### Hampton Roads has been dubiously named the second 9


### most dangerous metropolitan area in the nation 10


### when it comes to sea level rise, behind only New 11


### Orleans. And our nation has exp erienced the 12


### painful effects for Hurricane Katrina, most 13


### recently Hurricane Sandy, and these events will 14



### become much more severe and of course more 15


### frustratingly difficult to predict of our nation 16


### doesn't take a leading role in reducing these 17



### carbon emissi ons which leads to worsening climate 18



### change. 19


### So, this rule making, particularly by 20


### EPA, to regulate greenhouse gas emissions under 21


### the Clean Air Act is a good start in effort to 22120

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### reduce the greenhouse gas emissions and is indeed 1


### historic and unprecedented. 2



### There are those who would argue 3


### otherwise, I guess. Defenders of the status quo, 4


### big fossil fuel industries, who have attacked 5


### this rule for the same reason that I praise it, 6


### is that it is historic and unprecedented. But I 7


### would like to urge the EPA and everyone to keep 8


### in mind the dangerous effects of climate change, 9



### sea level rise, severe weather, that are all 10


### occurring at historic and unprecedented levels. 11


### These actions require what I call an equal and 12


### opposite reaction, bold historic rule making to 13



### f ight back. 14


### But I also urge the EPA and various law 15



### makers and administration officials to bear in 16


### mind the preeminent rule and the preeminent 17


### reason for making the rule, which is climate 18


### change. Now while Co2 is a very harmful air 19


### pollutant that is being regulated, I would like 20


### to draw attention to methane leakage and to our 21


### environment which is not currently burning of 22121

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### methane, natural gas plants, and leakage methane 1


### from fracked natural gas wells is a significantly 2


### greater contributor to climate change a nd its 3


### life cycle. As natural gas prices remain at 4



### historic low levels in utilities across the 5


### nations are aggressively pursuing this option in 6


### lieu of coal, I would just urge the EPA to 7


### closely analyze the nation's natural gas 8


### projections over the next d ecade or more and 9


### consider whether the carbon rules are aggressive 10


### enough to offset these increases in natural gas 11


### and resulting burning of the methane that results 12



### from it. 13



### So those are the extent of my comments 14


### and I thank you very much for your time. 15



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much. 16


### Would you mind spelling your name, sir? 17



### MR. ROBINSON: Yes. Dawone, D

- A

- W

- O

- N

- E, 18



### last name Robinson. 19


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. With that we 20


### have reached a temporary pause. I think we've 21


### all been good about being bri ef and so we're a 22122

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### little ahead of schedule, so we will stand in 1



### recess for a few moments and come back in five or 2



### 10 minutes from now. We have another raft of 3



### people ready to speak to us. Thank you. 4



### (Recess from 11:10 a.m. until 11:35 a.m.) 5



### MR. NIEBLING: Hello and welcome back. 6


### Thank you for allowing that recess. We have two 7


### people ready to go now so I'd like to invite up 8


### Ed Ablard and Elliot Long, please. 9


### MR. ABLARD: My name is Ed Ablard. I now 10


### live in Wilmington, North Carolina. I graduated 11



### from G W Law School in 1968, lived in southern 12


### Virginia until December of 2012 when we moved to 13


### Wilmington, North Carolina where the air is 14



### better. And the reason is because we shut down 15



### the coal

- fired power plant in the neighborhood in 16


### Wilmington, North Carolin a, at the end of 2013. 17



### So I'm back up here today and I had to 18


### take an allergy pill. So, comment on your air. 19


### My organization is Organizing for Action. 20


### You might recognize the logos. It's a 21


### nonpartisan nonprofit. From June the 14th until 22123

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### moments ago I 've been collecting signatures on a 1


### petition. This is the words, I will read them in 2



### to you, and I've got about 500 names. 3


### Unfortunately our system for inputting this is 4


### not up to the strain and so I want to just enter 5



### these in. 6



### I collected each one of these, talked to 7



### the people, and they strongly support 8


### Environmental Protection Agency's standards. 9


### Five hundred people. That's probably more than 10


### you've seen so far today. So, that's in addition 11



### to the people you've heard from. They all 12



### believe in th at this will protect American's 13


### health, spur investment, clean energy. And 14


### they're somewhat dubious about unleashing 15


### American innovation. They signed the petition 16


### anyway. So we hope that that will come through. 17


### Yesterday I organized a hearing on the 18



### wat erfront in front of the Federal Building, on 19


### the city property, on behalf of Climate Parents 20


### and we had above 20 people talking to the press. 21


### Our speakers are longtime members of the 22124

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### community down there from the academia, from the 1



### Coastal Federation, for Commissioner Jonathan 2


### Barfield from the County Commissioner of New 3


### Hanover County. And the League of Conservation 4



### Voters was represented by Mack Montgomery. 5



### So we had a Climate Parent mom come all 6


### the way from Fayetteville to talk, and I'm sure 7



### Climate Parents is going to file something here 8



### before the end of the

-- but I wanted to let you 9


### know we are active down there and we're really 10



### concerned about this because we know the benefits 11


### that can come from cleaning up the environment. 12



### We're worried about a couple of things. They 13


### want to put in a coal

- fired cement plant and 14


### they're running a coal

- fired steam plant across 15


### the river, down the road in south port. 16


### So I'm not sure that these regulations 17



### have ever reached there unless you expand the 18



### scope. 19



### So I'm going to take off both of those 20


### hats now and just tell you what I'm thinking. I 21


### attended clean water hearings, and while I was 22125

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### still here in Virginia in the timeframe of 2012, 1


### maybe late 2011. And members of the Virginia 2



### Committee came to those hear ings and there were 3


### official representatives of organizations there, 4


### and the pervasive feeling in the hearing room, or 5


### the meeting room was

-- and the people who were 6


### opposing were not in good faith. They were not 7


### cooperating. 8



### I think that this whole th ing that you're 9


### lodged with depends on cooperation. I urge you 10


### to look at the rules about cooperation and do 11


### something about aiding people who come to testify 12


### and those public officials that are representing 13


### the states come forward with good faith 14


### objecti ons and come forward in a spirit of 15


### cooperation. 16



### You may have read about the moral 17


### majority. Moral Mundy's goings on, and this is a 18



### true

-- a citizen's boom and I participated along 19


### with my brother, Rick, who is here today. We're 20


### going to try and straigh ten North Carolina out, 21


### but we need federal help to straighten our air 22126

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### and our water out. So, I urge you to finalize 1


### these regulations as soon as possible. Come on 2



### down and see us. We've got great weather. 3



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. And I know you 4



### were ready to speak before the break, so thank 5


### you for your patience. 6



### MR. ABLARD: Thanks. 7


### MR. LONG: Good morning and thank you for 8


### having me here today to discuss the importance of 9


### strong carbon emission standards to small 10



### businesses. 11


### My name is Elliot Lo ng and I'm the Policy 12


### and Development Associate for Small Business 13


### Majority. 14


### Small Business Majority is a nonprofit, 15


### nonpartisan, small business organization founded 16


### and run by small business owners and focused on 17


### solving the biggest problems facing smal l 18


### businesses today. We represent the 28 million 19



### Americans who are self

- employed or own businesses 20



### of up to 100 employees. 21


### Our organization uses scientific opinion 22127

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### and economic research and works with our network 1



### of more than 25,000 small business owners t o 2


### understand and represent the interests of the 3


### small business community. 4


### Small business owners are doing 5


### everything they can to fortify their businesses 6


### in our slowly recovering economy. They are 7


### innovative, and in order to help their businesses 8



### thrive e ntrepreneurs are constantly looking for 9


### ways to cut costs and identify new business 10


### opportunities. 11



### The new carbon emission standards 12


### proposed by the EPA will do both, which is why 13


### the majority of entrepreneurs support this rule. 14


### Small Business Majority pulled a random 15


### sample of small business owners across the 16



### country and found 52 percent support the EPA 17


### regulating carbon emissions from existing power 18


### plants that cause climate change. And 76 percent 19


### are in favor or requiring new power plants to 20



### reduce c arbon pollution. 21


### What's more, the vast majority believes 22128

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### investing in clean energy can stimulate the 1


### economy and create jobs now. These small 2


### business owners run the gamut of industries and 3


### political identification as well with 37 percent 4


### identifying as Republican, 30 percent as 5


### Democrat, and 33 percent as independent or other. 6



### Small employers support strong clean 7


### energy standards because they realize carbon 8


### pollution is linked to climate change and extreme 9



### weather. More and more extreme weather has bee n 10


### hitting small employers where it hurts the most. 11


### Our polling revealed climate change and extreme 12


### weather events are causing real financial 13


### hardships for small employers. So much so that 14


### the majority of entrepreneurs affected by an 15



### extreme weather event had experienced a 16


### significant financial impact to their companies, 17



### and some have even had to lay off employees. 18



### Research shows small businesses are 19


### particularly at risk from the effects of climate 20


### change and the extreme weather events it causes. 21



### In fact, an estimated 25 percent of small to mid

- 22129

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### sized businesses do not reopen following a major 1


### disaster. Most small businesses have a single 2



### branch or location site which makes them more 3


### vulnerable to loss compared to larger businesses 4



### that have back up resou rces at other facilities 5



### or locations. 6



### As a result small businesses are more 7


### heavily impacted by power outages, the absence of 8


### employees, supply chain interruptions, rising 9



### insurance costs, and more. 10


### In fact, our poll found the vast majority 11



### of responde nts have had to close their business 12



### for up to a week after an extreme weather event, 13



### and some owners say they've had to close for as 14



### long 14 to 30 days. It should come as no 15


### surprise then that 57 percent of small businesses 16


### across the country believe cli mate change and 17


### extreme weather events like Hurricane Sandy are 18


### an urgent problem that can disrupt the economy 19



### and harm small businesses. 20


### Along with helping to combat climate 21



### change, stronger clean energy standards can help 22130

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### create new business opportunit ies for small 1


### businesses. Entrepreneurs believe allowing the 2


### EPA to regulate harmful carbon emissions could 3


### help stabilize the market and set clear goals for 4


### our nation's future and the clean energy economy. 5


### Small businesses, the majority of which 6



### are una ffected by the standards themselves, will 7


### benefit as they supply the services and products 8



### to help those who do have to meet them. 9


### Entrepreneurs could confidently innovate and 10


### create jobs knowing that the future would hold 11



### long

- term financial returns resu lting from the 12



### new standards. 13



### Our poll numbers prove that small 14


### employers are committed to this type of future. 15


### Eighty

- seven percent of these small business 16


### owners said that improving innovation and energy 17


### efficiency are good ways to increase prosperit y 18



### for small businesses. 19


### As our polling shows small businesses 20


### believe a clean energy economy that includes 21


### robust clean energy standards is rife with 22131

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### economic possibilities. Entrepreneurs understand 1


### clean energy can stimulate the economy and create 2


### jobs now. I believe you should be investing in 3


### this area to spur growth. Despite strong small 4


### business support efforts to set standards 5


### reducing carbon emissions have been blocked over 6



### and over. That comes at the expense of our 7



### economic future. 8



### Small busi nesses make up the backbone of 9


### our economy. For every one large business in 10



### America there are more than 1,400 small business 11


### owners, small businesses diligently working to 12


### reenergize the economy. These entrepreneurs are 13


### doing everything they can to hire, grow, and move 14


### their business forward. As part of these efforts 15


### they want pragmatic innovative policies that help 16


### guide them into a modern clean energy economy and 17


### that will mitigate extreme weather events brought 18


### about by climate change which can hurt t heir 19


### profit margins. 20


### This includes strengthening EPA standards 21


### of carbon emissions that get into the air from 22132

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### power plants. 1


### It's important the EPA know its proposal 2


### to limit carbon emissions from existing power 3


### plants is one small businesses support. Th ank 4



### you. 5


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. At this moment 6


### we do not have anyone else in the cue to

-- so we 7


### will once again take a brief recess. 8



### (Brief recess.) 9


### MR. NIEBLING: Hello again. We have been 10


### efficient this morning and I believe we have 11



### exhausted our l ist for the morning session. So, 12


### with that we will adjourn until 1:00 p.m. and 13



### we'll resume with our afternoon session. Thank 14


### you for your attendance and your testimony as 15



### well. 16



### (Luncheon recess from 11:50 a.m. until 17



### 1:05 p.m.) 18

19

20

21

22133

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### AFTERNOON SESSION 1



### MR. DEMOCKER: Okay. With the first 2


### nominees we'll get started here. Good afternoon. 3


### My name is Jim DeMocker and I'm Director of the 4


### Office of Policy Analysis and Review in the EPA 5



### office of air and radiation, and I'm one of the 6


### chairs of today's public hea ring. Thank you for 7


### coming today. 8


### Joining me on the panel this afternoon is 9



### Jim Ketcham

- Colwill, who is also in the Office of 10


### Policy and Analysis Review, and Glenn Sheriff who 11



### is in our National Center for Environmental 12


### Economics and the Office of Policy. 13


### So we're here today to listen to your 14



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 15


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 16


### of these proposed rules in June 2nd, 2014. Power 17


### plants are the largest source of carbon pollution 18



### in the U.S., account ing for roughly one third of 19


### all domestic greenhouse gas emissions. 20


### The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 21


### Power Plan for existing power plants. This 22134

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### proposal consists of two main parts, state 1


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 2



### power plants, an d guidelines to help states 3


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. This 4


### proposal gives states flexibility in determining 5


### how to meet their goals. States will choose what 6


### goes into their plans to show how they will 7



### achieve the needed reductions and me et their 8



### goals by 2030. 9


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 10



### address carbon dioxide emissions for modified and 11


### reconstructed power plants. This rule would set 12


### emissions limits for two groups of power plants, 13


### those that make physical or operational c hanges 14


### that increase a plant's maximum achievable hourly 15


### rate of emissions, and those that replace 16


### compliments to such an extent that the new 17


### components exceed 50 percent of the capital cost 18


### of an entirely new comparable facility. 19


### If you'd like more detail s on either of 20



### these proposed rules there are fact sheets 21


### available near the registration desk. Today's 22135

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### hearing is one of four public hearings across the 1


### country this week on the two proposed rules. 2



### We've had tremendous interest in each of these 3


### hearings and I'd like to thank you for taking 4


### time out of your day today to join us and share 5



### your comments. 6


### We do have a lot of people signed up to 7



### speak today and we want to hear from all of them. 8


### So before we get started I'd like to go through a 9


### few housekeepi ng items and ground rules that will 10


### help make today's hearing run smoothly. 11


### First, please be sure you're checked in 12


### at the registration desk, even if you're not 13


### planning to speak to day. And if you signed up 14


### to speak online or by phone, but haven't told u s 15



### that you're here, please step out to the 16


### registration desk and let the EPA staff know 17


### there that you've arrived. 18


### Second, if you are a speaker you were 19


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 20


### or Room B. This is Room B. Are you in the right 21



### room? If not, this is a good time to switch. 22136

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### All right. So here is how today's 1


### hearing will work. I will call speakers up in 2


### pairs. When your name is called please come to 3



### the table at the front of the room. When I call 4



### on you to speak please state your na me and spell 5


### it for the court reporter. Your comments will be 6



### transcribed and included in the record of 7



### comments on the proposed rule. 8


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 9


### give comments. We have a light to help you know 10


### how much time you have left to s peak. When the 11


### light turns from green to yellow that means you 12


### have one minute remaining. When it turns red, 13


### that's a signal to wrap up your testimony. The 14


### light will flash red and beep when you have 15


### spoken for five minutes and it is time to stop. 16



### Alth ough I actually tested it and it didn't flash 17


### or beep, so I will beep for us. 18


### So, when you're finished speaking please 19


### remain at the table until the person next to you 20


### has completed his or her testimony. We're here 21


### to listen to you today, however a panel member 22137

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### may ask you questions to clarify your comments. 1


### I will then call up the next pair of speakers and 2



### so on. 3


### If you've brought a written copy of your 4


### testimony please give that to the staff at the 5


### registration desk before you leave today. 6



### Because of the large number of people who 7


### have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 8


### everyone, we're going to have to strictly enforce 9



### the five

- minute limit. 10


### If you have additional comments you'd 11


### like to make you can submit them in writing. Let 12



### me assure you that EPA gives just as much 13


### consideration to comments we receive in writing 14


### as we do to comments we receive at public 15


### hearings like this one. So if you have more that 16


### you'd like to say, please submit it. Your 17


### comments will be reviewed. There's still pl enty 18


### of time to get written comments in, and there are 19


### comment cards available at the registration desk. 20


### Comments must be received by October 16th, 2014. 21


### We will put any written comments submitted today 22138

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### in the official docket for the proposed rule. 1



### Inst ructions for submitting written comments in 2


### other ways are available at the materials table 3


### near the registration desk. 4


### So we're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 5


### tonight, and we'll take a dinner break so 6


### everyone can get something to eat. Right now the 7



### din ner break is scheduled for 5:00. In addition 8


### we may take occasional short breaks throughout 9



### the session as needed. 10


### If you have any questions please see the 11


### staff at the registration desk and someone will 12


### try to help you. Finally, I want to ask each of 13



### yo u to please be respectful of everyone who 14


### speaks today. We have people with a wide variety 15



### of views in the audience and we want to hear from 16


### all of you. So we can do that and to be fair to 17


### everyone we ask that everyone listen quietly. 18



### Even applause can slow things down and we want to 19


### hear from everyone who has signed up to speak. 20


### Thank you again for taking the time today 21



### to share your comments on EPA's proposed rules. 22139

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### Let's get started. 1


### All right. So the first speaker is Kevin 2



### Turf and Dr. Jalonne Whi te

- Newsome. If you'd 3



### come up to the table, please. 4



### Is Kevin Turf here? 5


### (No audible response.) 6



### MR. DEMOCKER: You get the table to 7



### yourself. So. 8



### DR. WHITE

- NEWSOME: Do you want me to 9



### spell my name? 10


### MR. DEMOCKER: We know it, so thank you. 11



### DR. WHITE

- N EWSOME: Okay. Okay. 12


### MR. DEMOCKER: We've got it here. 13



### DR. WHITE

- NEWSOME: Okay. Thank you for 14


### the opportunity to testify today EPA's proposed 15


### Clean Power Plan. My name is Dr. Jalonne White

16


### Newsome and I'm with a rural community

- based 17


### organization worki ng to build opportunities 18


### through education, advocacy, and research, 19


### specifically for low

- income communities of color. 20


### We can no longer deny that emissions of 21


### carbon dioxide continue to dampen our resilience 22140

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### to the biggest public health threat of this 1



### cen tury, which is climate change. So your job in 2


### how this plan is operationalized, is mission 3


### critical to protect the health, welfare, and 4


### quality of life for Americans, especially those 5


### living in communities that are constantly 6


### breathing in a myriad of carb on dioxide and other 7



### co

- pollutants. 8


### So while we have the support of all EPA 9


### staffers to the climate action plan to reduce 10


### emissions of toxic pollutants, we do have some 11


### concerns that we would like to share regarding 12


### the potential environmental justice 13



### im plementations of this plan. 14


### I'll briefly touch on just three. The 15


### SIP process, mitigation managers, and credits. 16


### I'll start with SIP process. 17



### The SIP process. Because the plan offers 18


### immediate options, this is great for states to 19


### meet the designated em ission goals. And it's 20


### critical that an EJ analysis was conducted and 21



### really a part of the SIP process. Some states 22141

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### will focus on improving demand

- side efficiencies, 1


### others will look at raising their renewable 2


### portfolio standards and other mitigation tac tics. 3


### But really understanding how these measures could 4


### impact low

- income communities of color is 5



### critical. 6


### So not only should an EJ analysis be 7


### required as a part of the SIP process, but states 8


### should be required to develop multi

- pollutant 9


### plans simila r to that of Colorado because often 10



### times in EJ communities Co2, in addition to other 11


### pollutants, really drive those negative counts. 12


### Secondly, I want to speak freely about mitigation 13


### practices. The plan seems to be very slighted 14



### towards cap and trade be ing the most viable 15


### option to meet carbon emissions, and other 16


### options should be presented, such as, carbon tax, 17


### permit price, et cetera. 18


### But if cap and trade is given as an 19


### option, there must be controls integrated into 20



### the process to make sure that redu ctions are 21


### actually happening in communities that are being 22142

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### impacted. Offsets are allowing the most 1


### polluting companies to buy their way out of the 2


### compliance is not acceptable. 3



### We recommend that the EPA use other 4


### options that can reduce these disparate impacts 5


### of cap and trade, such as maybe identifying high 6


### priority or pollution zones where polluters would 7


### pay a higher carbon tax or a permit price to give 8


### a stronger incentive for industries to reduce 9


### emissions and for creating a community benefit 10



### fund where some fraction of the revenues from the 11


### carbon tax or the permit options are channeled 12


### into measures that actually mitigate co

- pollutant 13


### impacts and enhance community resilience. 14



### And last but not least I want to speak 15



### about credits. We feel that the burning of bio

16



### mass should not be counted as a credit towards 17


### reducing carbon emissions. Biomass burning often 18



### creates more of a health hazard than other 19


### mitigation strategies. And so the elimination of 20


### burning bio

- mass as well as carbon caption 21


### sequenci ng and sequestration or CCS, which those 22143

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### processes are typically sited in EJ communities 1


### should not really be viable options in our case 2



### to receive credit for emission reductions. And 3


### that should really be reconsidered. 4



### So there are more comments that we will 5



### address at a later date with more detail, but we 6


### hope that you will, as you write this rule, 7


### reflect on the principles of environmental 8


### justice, the climate justice principles for 9


### guidance, and also remember the intent of the 10



### executive order, 12898, a nd Title 6 of the Civil 11


### Rights Act, because all of these things play into 12


### this plan in some way. 13


### So in conclusion, we appreciate the EPA's 14


### efforts. We hope that you strongly consider 15


### making an EJ analysis of part of the SIP 16


### implementation

-- SIP process, that you also 17


### carefully provide a balanced selection of 18


### mitigation options that is not so leaning towards 19


### cap and trade, and then remove any credits for 20



### bio

- mass burning and carbon capture and 21


### sequestration to ensure that the civil and the 22144

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### human rights of all Americans are upheld. So 1


### thank you for your time. 2



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Okay. 3



### THE COURT REPORTER: Can you spell your 4



### name, please? Spell your name. 5


### MR. DEMOCKER: I guess she did need it. 6



### Sorry. 7

8



### DR. WHITE

- NEWSOME: Yes, ma'am. J

- A

- L

- O

9



### N

- N

- E , White, W

- H

- I

- T

- E, hyphen, Newsome, N

- E

- W

10



### S

- O

- M

- E. 11


### MR. DEMOCKER: Thanks. All right. The 12



### next two speakers are

-- I’m not sure if this is 13


### supposed to be Cheryl or Shirley, Pyrch, P

- Y

- R

- C

14



### H. And Reverend Dele, D

- E

- L

- E, I think. My 15


### apologies if I happen to have either of those 16



### wrong. 17


### Is it Cheryl or Shirley? 18



### MS. PYRCH: I'm Cheryl. 19



### MR. DEMOCKER: Cheryl. 20



### MS. PYRCH: Cheryl, C

- H

- E

- R

- Y

- L. 21



### MR. DEMOCKER: C

- H

- E

- R

- Y

- L. Okay. 22145

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### MS. PYRCH: Yes. And that's P

- Y

- R

- C

- H. 1



### MR. DEMOCKER: P

- Y

- R

- C

- H. Okay. We'll 2



### s tart with you. 3


### MS. PYRCH: Okay. Thank you. My name is 4


### Cheryl Pyrch. I'm the pastor at Summit 5


### Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, and serve on 6


### the board of the Pennsylvania Chapter of Inter

7


### Faith Power and Light, people of faith responding 8



### to climate c hanges and moral issues. 9


### Thank you for this chance to testify in 10



### support of the Clean Power Plan. 11


### At PAIPL and in my congregation we are 12


### concerned about climate change for the reasons of 13


### justice, compassion, and gratitude for God's 14



### creation and others have spoken about it and will 15


### be speaking about. 16


### But I'd like to tell a parable, the need 17


### to act quickly without delay and it's a true 18



### story. 19


### Our church was built over 100 years ago. 20



### It's a massive structure made from wissahickon 21


### schist, built for a congr egation of 1,000. And 22146

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### for decades Summit has been one or 200 members 1



### strong. 2


### Now the leadership has cared for the 3


### building responsibly with limited resources but 4


### over the years certain projects had to be 5


### delayed. One of them was the tower. For a while 6


### folks had noticed signs of troubles; small cracks 7


### and a disturbing bulge. And six years ago the 8


### trustees acted. They called in a top flight 9


### engineering firm. The engineers proposed a 10


### $56,000 solution and encouraged us to begin 11



### sooner rather than later, although there was no 12


### immediate danger. 13


### So we got into gear, raised $400,000 in a 14


### capital campaign, got calls from different 15


### contractors, and just as the work was about to 16


### begin a large stone fell from the face of the 17


### tower in the middle of the night. Then a much 18



### smaller stone fell on the head of the Deacon who 19


### was looking up at the new cracks. 20



### On closer examination we learned that in 21


### the two years it had taken us to get ready, the 22147

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### situation had changed. Two harsh winters, two 1



### freeze and thaw cycles, a nd the tower had been 2


### pushed to a tipping point and was beginning to 3



### collapse. 4


### So the engineers came up with a new plan 5


### and $188,000 later we thought we were done. But 6


### almost immediately an ominous new crack appeared 7


### in another part of the tower. More engineers, 8


### another plan, the assurance that taking it down 9


### would be even more expensive. And $330,000 later 10


### total, our tower is now secure. You can worship 11


### safely inside. 12



### But the survival of the tower came at a 13


### much greater cost than if we had known, o r if we 14



### had been able to act earlier. Hundreds and 15



### thousands of dollars were spent that could have 16


### been used on other projects or ministries. 17


### So after this up close and personal 18


### encounter with tipping points, we hear the 19


### scientists when they warn us of ti pping points in 20


### the climate. We hear that when they tell us of 21


### cascading extinctions and the possibility of 22148

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### ecosystem collapse, we understand that a fierce 1


### urgency of now in both moral and in a practical 2



### sense. 3


### I, for one, am glad the EPA is acting now 4



### in spite of strong opposition. There are costs 5


### to limiting carbon. There are costs to limiting 6



### carbon emissions, and those who face loss, 7


### especially vulnerable people in the transition to 8



### a new clean energy economy must be supported. 9



### But the costs of dela y are so much greater. And 10


### the stakes are so much higher than with our bell 11



### tower. 12


### I hope that the final rule will be strong 13


### and will reflect climate justice principles. 14



### Thank you for your work and thank you for 15


### allowing me to testify. 16



### MR. DEMOCKER: Tha nk you. Reverend Dele. 17


### REV. DELE: Hi. Reverend Marjani Dele 18


### from Victoria, Virginia, and I'm a board member 19


### with the Virginia affiliate of the Inter

- faith 20


### Power and Light Group. I'm also the founder of 21


### Nature's friends. Decent blessings to all. 22149

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### The last time I testified on behalf of 1


### standards for power plants I cited the facts from 2


### a report published by the NAACP entitled, the 3


### Cold Blooded Report, Putting Profits Before 4



### People. 5


### I'm not going to repeat all of the 6


### shocking statistics contained in that report such 7


### as the death rate from asthma is 172 percent 8


### higher for African

- Americans than from whites, or 9


### the fact that people who live within three miles 10


### of a coal power plant, regardless of their 11


### ethnicity, tend to have an average per capita 12


### income of $ 18,400. We need to be cognizant of 13



### the least of these. 14



### But today I want to speak to the moral 15


### principle behind our decision making. The 16


### principle of rightly defining the word of truth. 17


### And the reference for that principle is in Second 18


### Timothy, the sec ond chapter, and the 15th verse. 19



### What we are asked to study to show ourselves 20



### approved, workers who never need to be ashamed, 21


### rightly divining and explaining the word of 22150

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### truth. 1


### I think today, we've started off on the 2


### right foot in these hearings, because hearings 3



### are a type of study. It's good to study; to 4


### listen to different points of view and 5


### perspectives so that we can make wise choices; 6



### choices that include health and wealth and 7


### wellbeing for the planet. 8


### Where we tend to go a little bit astray 9



### is in d efining the word of truth. We can tell we 10


### have gone a little astray because somehow in this 11


### whole energy production business we've taken an 12


### abundant and beautiful creation which was gifted 13



### to us, and we've turned it into a battlefield 14


### where we have profit s against the people. There 15



### are different sides. I don't know how that 16


### happened. There's no truth in that. I don't 17


### think that's nice. It's not necessary, and it's 18


### certainly now what God asked us to do. 19



### Another reference, in Genesis, the second 20



### chapter of the 15th verse, the very first thing 21



### that God asks humankind to do is to serve and 22151

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### preserve the Earth. Now this was before God 1



### asked us to love each other, before he asked us 2


### to love the creator, or to treat or neighbors 3



### correctly, we were asked to lo ve the Earth. 4


### You can say it's a type of first 5



### commandment. And it should be the easiest 6


### commandment to keep because God has already given 7



### us a beautiful, abundant, and self

- generating 8


### planet. All we have to do is keep it moving. 9


### Along with that plane t we were also given 10


### a lot of intelligence and power to be collators 11



### of God so we don't have to decide between our 12


### health and a job. We can create a proud and 13


### productive work culture that doesn't require 14


### tearing up the Earth. We can be wealthy and 15



### health y. 16



### And these standards, the Clean Power Plan 17


### is one step in that direction. It is a wise and 18



### correct direction. 19


### Let's remember that every time standards 20


### have been proposed in every time in history, 21


### industry has always cried and whined, kind of 22152

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### like a spo iled brat. And every time the 1


### standards are pushed back, innovation saves the 2



### day. 3



### Americans are known for innovation. If 4


### we put half the energy into refining solar and 5


### wind energy that we put into fighting each other, 6


### we would already have the right s olution. Don't 7


### you believe that workers in the fossil fuel 8


### industry have the right to a safe and healthy 9


### work environment? Don't they deserve the 10


### opportunity to transition into a clean energy 11


### economy with the rest of us? 12



### If you have attended the recent meeting 13


### in Riverdale, Virginia, you would have heard them 14


### saying yes, with a very resounding five to one 15


### ratio. People in Southwest, Virginia want the 16


### fossil fuel industry to obey standards which may 17



### fall safer for everyone as well as for the 18



### planet. 19



### I s ay that the Clean Power Plan is just 20


### the kick in the pants we need to innovate 21


### ourselves into a more productive energy business. 22153

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### Let's stop crying and whining and let's just do 1


### it. Thank you. 2


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you. 3



### And I hope the Deacon o f your church is okay. 4



### MS. DELE: Yes, he is. 5



### MR. DEMOCKER: Good. Good. 6


### All right. Next up we have Emmett 7


### McKinney and Donna McDowell. 8


### All right. Let's start with Emmett, if 9



### you're ready. 10


### MR. MCKINNEY: Spell it? 11


### MR. DEMOCKER: And if you could spell 12



### your last

-- both names, probably, for the court 13



### reporter. 14



### MR. MCKINNEY: Yeah. That's Emmett, E

- M

15



### M

- E

- T

- T, McKinney, M

- C

- K

- I

- N

- N

- E

- Y. 16


### So, I just wanted to first say good 17


### afternoon and thank you for the opportunity to 18


### testify here today. 19



### I traveled all the way from Los Angeles 20


### to work on the Sierra Club's Beyond the Call 21


### campaign all summer, and I've traveled here today 22154

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### to express my support of the Clean Power Plan. 1


### So the planning people of course, have 2


### already weighed in on the technical merits of th e 3


### plan. It's not perfect but it's a start in the 4


### right direction. 5


### But I've come here today to explain why 6


### the Clean Power Plan matters to me, why it's 7


### important on a personal level. So, one of the 8


### elements that makes my hometown so beautiful, Los 9



### Ange les, is the co

- existence of the beaches and 10



### the mountains. 11


### But when my father moved there in 1988, 12



### he stood on a hill and he looked out on most 13


### houses, a brown thick layer of smog. It wasn't 14



### until he lived there for about two and a half 15



### months he final ly came to see that smog cleared 16



### out of the air and he saw these beautiful 17


### mountains there. And half of the story, you 18



### know, both as a testament to the progress that 19



### California made since the Clean Air Act, our air 20



### is much much cleaner than it used to be. But I 21


### still count myself lucky on the days that I can 22155

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### stand on the same hill and look out into the 1



### mountains which make our state so beautiful. And 2



### also, I count myself lucky on the days that I can 3



### breathe clean air. 4



### So the Clean Power Plan is EPA's Cle an 5


### Air Act, a similar way as California, climate 6


### change is no longer a distant threat. It's here, 7



### and it's now. But the effects of fossil fuel 8


### consumption in California extends far beyond 9


### cleaner air. They're taking a real and vengeful 10



### toll on our econo my. 11


### Just to give you an example, according to 12


### the U.S. Geological survey, as of July 22nd, 13



### 2014, that's last week, the entire state is in a 14


### drought. Over eight percent of California is in 15


### extreme drought and over a third is in a very 16


### exceptional drought . In fact, the third worst on 17



### record. 18


### The rivers run especially dry in the 19


### central valley, which produces half the nation's 20


### produce and a quarter of its milk. The economic 21


### costs here are big. In 2014 alone business 22156

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### estimates that the drought will cost t he 1


### agriculture industry $1.5 billion. State

- wide it 2


### will cost tax payers $2.2 million. And they 3


### don’t call it a drought. 4



### We used to have forest fire season, but 5



### now that happens year round. In the 1980s forest 6


### fires used to claim just under 3 million acres 7


### per year. In 2010 they claimed more than 6 8


### million acres per year. Our forests, our homes, 9


### and our safety are all on the line. 10


### And of course in Los Angeles we suffer 11


### through the worst ozone pollution in the country. 12



### On too many days out of the y ear it's dangerous 13



### for our kids to breathe outside. Asthma attacks 14



### are commonplace. They shouldn't be, but they 15



### are. 16


### And fossil fuel corporations might try to 17


### tell you that the Clean Power Plan is an assault 18



### on the middle class. Such an environment is not 19


### only destructive, it's just plain wrong. More 20


### than anyone the middle class bears the burden of 21


### climate change. 22157

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### In 2014 alone California's drought will 1


### cost 17,000 seasonal agricultural jobs. Likewise 2


### the impact on ozone pollution is especially felt 3



### b y low

- income communities who live near 4



### factories, who live in cities, and who live near 5


### roadways. These are the same people the fossil 6


### fuel industry claims to protect. But the truth 7


### is, that these people deserve better. 8


### Investing in clean energy is the most 9



### pro

- business action that the EPA can take. We 10


### might be short on water in California, but we are 11


### not short on the sun. And solar energy is 12


### already cheaper per kilowatt hour than coal to 13



### produce. 14


### The implications of climate change are 15



### clear and are important. But really, taking 16


### action to slow the warming of the air is just 17


### good business. So it is with the greatest 18


### urgency that I ask you to keep moving forward on 19



### carbon reductions. California needs it. Our 20


### economy needs it, and most of all our ki ds need 21


### it. Thank you. 22158

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### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Donna. 1



### MS. MCDOWELL: Yes. Good afternoon. 2



### MR. DEMOCKER: Can you spell your name, 3



### too, for the court reporter? 4



### MS. MCDOWELL: Yes. Donna, D

- O

- N

- N

- A, 5



### McDowell, M

- C, capital D

- O

- W

- E

- L

- L. 6



### MR. DEMOCKER : Thank you. 7


### MS. MCDOWELL: Hi. Good afternoon. My 8



### name is Donna McDowell. I reside in 9


### Gaithersburg, Maryland. Although I am currently 10



### the vice

- chair of the Maryland Chapter of the 11


### Sierra Club, I'm testifying here today more as a 12



### parent and a grandpar ent. 13



### I have two grandsons, ages 8 and 10, and 14



### they play travel baseball so they travel around 15


### the State of Maryland quite a bit. 16



### I'm concerned about the world that we are 17


### leaving our children and our grandchildren. I 18


### applaud the EPA for developing carbo n rules which 19


### will decrease carbon pollution across the United 20



### States. The time is now and the action is 21


### urgent. I hope it is not too late. 22159

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### Climatologist, Jason Box, who has studied 1


### Greenland's ice melt extensively has reported 2



### that the current ice melt in Greenland and 3



### Antarctica could result in a sea level rise of 4



### some 69 feet. 5



### In a recent article in Mother Jones 6


### Magazine Chris Mooney quotes Dr. Box as stating, 7


### quote, "Cutting greenhouse gases slows the 8


### planet's heating, and with it the pace of ice 9



### sh eet losses." 10


### Right now increasing fossil fuel 11


### emissions are decreasing the Greenland ice 12


### sheet's ability to reflect incoming sun, 13


### increasing the melting and resulting in a self

14


### perpetuating feedback loop. In addition, forest 15



### fires have increased in seve rity in Canada, 16


### thereby intensifying the darkening of Greenland's 17



### ice. 18


### Jason Box's website, Dark Snow, reports 19


### that the IPCC has predicted a doubling of forest 20


### fires for every 1.8 degree Fahrenheit increase in 21


### temperature. As scientists, you are well aw are 22160

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### of the negative synergistic effects that climate 1


### change is already taking on our country and in 2



### our planet. 3


### Close by in Maryland we are experiencing 4


### climate change effects first

- hand. I live in 5


### northern Montgomery County and just three of us, 6



### three neighbors, have experienced property damage 7


### and power outages. We have suffered drastic 8


### erosion resulting in giant gullies. One pond had 9



### its wall blow out. We have downed trees 10


### periodically. 11


### In addition, in Maryland, we suffered the 12



### health effects of ba d air stemming from coal 13


### plant emissions that create plumes across the 14


### state. Asthma in Maryland is at record levels. 15



### On a personal note, one of my grandsons, 16



### the older one, the 10 year old, was rushed to the 17


### emergency room twice during the early summer 18



### m onths this year for breathing difficulties. I 19


### was with him one day when we walked from the 20


### parking lot to the baseball field and he could 21


### not make it from the parking lot to the baseball 22161

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### field without constantly coughing, eventually 1


### crying. He couldn't w alk anymore. My daughter 2



### and son

- in

- law took him to the emergency room 3



### that day. 4


### There was a second ER visit a couple 5



### weeks later, and this time he went to a 6


### pulmonologist and came home with two inhalers and 7


### allergy medicine. Now, do I know for sure that 8


### these symptoms are caused by air pollution? No. 9


### But they occurred on bad air days and I do note 10


### that Maryland's bad air quality, as rated by the 11


### American Lung Association, is very high. 12


### The exceedingly high rates of asthma in 13


### the City of Baltimore att est to the health 14


### affects of breathing bad air as well, and as 15


### other people have stated, those impact 16


### essentially the poor communities. 17


### The precautionary principle demands a 18



### response, but we have gone beyond that. We are 19


### no longer predicting bad results o f climate 20


### change, we are experiencing them now. 21



### A rough paraphrase from Shakespeare's 22162

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Julius Cesar is this statement we've often heard. 1


### "It is not in the stars to hold our destiny, but 2



### in ourselves." 3


### Let us take these steps now. It is in 4



### our hands and y ours. Thank you, EPA, for taking 5



### the steps to develop carbon rules to protect all 6



### of us and our planet. Thank you. 7



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. 8


### Okay. Next up is Liz Schmitt and it's Poune Rene 9


### Saberi. I hope I pronounced that right. I did? 10



### Oh , thanks. 11


### All right. Start with Liz Schmitt. 12


### MS. SCHMITT: Hi. So my name is spelled 13



### L

- I

- Z S

- C

- H

- M

- I

- T

- T, no D. 14


### So good afternoon. My name is Liz 15


### Schmitt and I'm the Creation Care Campaign 16


### Associate for Sojourners, which is a Christian 17


### organization th at's been around for more than 40 18


### years articulating the vocal call to social 19


### justice. 20


### And I use the words, Creation Care, in my 21


### job title because when I talk to our Christian 22163

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### constituents and particularly Evangelicals, about 1


### climate change, the conversati on always starts 2



### with God. 3


### We're responding to the reality of 4


### climate change, not just because of what the 5


### science says, and not just because we know 6


### ethically that we need to. But first and 7



### foremost because the Word tells us to. The 8


### creation speaks to u s in God's steadfast love for 9


### us, and the Bible speaks to us of our first 10


### responsibility, the task God gives to humanity in 11



### Genesis, which is to steward the creation. 12



### So I'm here today on behalf of thousands 13


### of people of faith who submitted public comments 14


### to the EPA urging for the Clean Power Plan to 15


### come to fruition so that we can finally take 16


### major action as a nation to curb our sinful 17


### climate pollution. 18


### And the comment from Sojourners has 3,400 19


### signatures on it, and they're all supporting EPA 20


### in moving forward with the Clean Power Plan. I 21


### can tell you that people of faith care deeply 22164

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### about what's happening to the creation, which 1


### includes people. And we know it's long past time 2


### for the U.S. to actively curb our carbon 3


### pollution. 4


### I know you're hearing fr om both sides 5


### about this and from industry that wants you to 6


### just cancel the standards, and from 7


### environmentally conscious people who are 8


### applauding your efforts and maybe even asking you 9


### to go further. And I'm here to voice our 10



### support. But because I ca n act with so many 11


### Christians across the country and our primary 12


### concern is social justice, I also want to ask for 13


### careful application of the rule. 14



### Each state can decide for itself how to 15


### implement the Clean Power Plan and meet its 16


### goals, and the flexibili ty is, in general, a 17


### really good thing. Because the desirability of 18


### each potential source of energy is weighed based 19


### on its carbon intensity, however, I'd like to 20


### suggest a more comprehensive approach to how you 21


### value each type of energy production. 22165

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### Truly renewable sources like wind and 1



### solar are a deal because they produce no carbon 2


### emission and rely on abundant natural energy. 3



### Other sources of energy, such as nuclear natural 4


### gas and bio

- mass may be lower carbon options, but 5


### they're not as environmentall y beneficial. 6


### Our nation uses a lot of energy and 7


### retiring coal plants means we'll need a lot of 8


### resources in production on the grid. But I would 9


### ask EPA to incorporate life cycle costs into how 10


### you incentivize each type of energy production. 11



### I've also heard concerns, and I know you 12


### have too, from environmental justice activists, 13


### including ones that we work with, worried about 14


### how poor communities and people of color might 15


### bear a disproportionate burden from more 16


### incinerators, for instance, as they alway s have 17


### in the past. 18


### And climate change is threatening God's 19


### creation, including people, at a global scale. 20



### So we need to act to slow it's course. But 21


### please be mindful of the tradeoffs. Your duty, 22166

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### as an agency, is to protect the environment and 1



### human health. And you cannot ask the poor and 2


### the people of color in the United States to pay 3


### the price for overall carbon emission reduction. 4



### Likewise, the co

- benefits of carbon 5


### reduction steps should happen where the costs 6



### happen. Local or state carbon tra ding schemes, 7


### where also it's happened nearby, are preferable 8



### to national or international schemes where a 9


### plant might continue to burn coal or natural gas 10


### in a poor community in L.A. because a forest in 11


### Michigan has been saved. 12


### Climate change and environm ental 13


### degradation are not abstract concepts. They're 14


### affecting real people everywhere in this country 15


### and I ask you to do your job in protecting all of 16


### those people, ensuring equal protection for those 17



### who are so often left out of the conversation and 18



### ask ed to bear the burden. 19



### In Jesus's speech, that we call the 20


### Beatitudes, he says, "Blessed are the meek, for 21


### they will inherit the Earth." 22167

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### And nowhere is this more clearly visible 1


### than in poor and vulnerable communities in the 2



### U.S. and around the world. Las t year I led a 3


### tour of 100 Christian community development 4


### workers on a trip on the Louisiana Bayou, and our 5


### guide was this short alligator wresting guy named 6


### Will Lou. He told us about his community in Jean 7


### Lafitte Swamp has seen seven hurricanes and one 8


### oil spill in eight years. And for him this was 9


### just part of life, although climate change is 10


### making it a more frequent part of life. 11


### That community, which sticks together and 12


### rebuilds after each storm gets almost no 13



### attention from the Government. After Katrina, we 14



### saw what happened to the people of New Orleans 15


### and how they were left behind. But people in the 16


### bayou were also left behind. 17


### And when the government built a levy the 18


### community of Jean Lafitte found themselves on the 19


### other side of the levy. They levy was a good 20


### thing, but the government was willing to do so at 21


### the expense of the small town of Jean Lafitte. 22168

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### And this is the kind of injustice that we risk 1


### committing when we leave the nuance out of our 2


### policies. 3


### So I urge you to incorporate 4



### env ironmental justice assessments and life cycle 5


### costs in assigning value to the details of state 6


### implementation plans, and to work with 7


### environmental justice experts to protect 8


### vulnerable people on the front lines of the 9


### problem, and sometimes the solutions of climate 10



### change. Thank you. 11


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you. 12



### Ms. Saberi. 13


### DR. SABERI: My first name is spelled P

14



### O

- U

- N

- E. My last name is S

- A

- B

- E

- R

- I. 15


### There is a Dakota Indian saying that goes 16


### like this, "When you find yourself riding a dead 17



### hors e, dismount." 18


### My name is Dr. Poune Saberi and I am a 19


### physician and occupational environmental medicine 20


### and a faculty member at the Hospital at the 21


### University of Pennsylvania. 22169

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### I'm here to say, fossil fuels are dead 1



### and we must dismount. The Clean Power Plan is 2


### the key lifesaving move and I want to thank EPA 3


### for their initiative. I want to tell you about a 4


### first encounter with a patient I will never 5



### forget. 6


### It initially started out routine, but 7


### when I asked her if she had any children her eyes 8



### welled up and she began telling me the story of 9


### her 17 year old son destined for college, with a 10


### scholarship, raised as an only child by this 11


### single mother. 12


### One day she received a call that he had 13



### an asthma attack and was taken to the emergency 14



### room. This time t he asthma attack proved to be 15



### fatal, and she never even had a chance to speak 16


### to him before his heart gave in. 17



### Forty

- four percent of all asthma 18


### hospitalizations are for children. I practiced 19


### primary care for 10 years before specializing in 20


### occupational and environmental medicine. I have 21


### seen a wide spectrum of patients hurt by exposure 22170

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### to air pollution. Seeing the alarming rapid and 1


### shallow breathing of an infant is not an 2


### experience I would want to voluntarily take part 3


### in. It is heart breaking when the vulnerable 4


### among us are unfairly take the large hit from our 5



### actions. 6


### At the other end of this spectrum are the 7


### workers in the fossil fuel industry. I live in 8


### Morgan, Pennsylvania as a part of methane 9



### development has exposed many of the workers to 10



### v olatile organic compounds and radioactive 11



### material. 12


### A 26 year old worker died in Southwestern 13


### PA when a methane gas well exploded. This is why 14


### I'm here today. When industry focuses on profits 15


### over health it is up to us to raise our voices 16


### against these unacceptable sacrifices. 17


### I commend EPA for introducing this rule, 18


### however, this is just the introduction. An 19


### introduction to the promising direction as a 20


### society. We all need to agree to make the 21


### efficiency proposal much more stringent and focus 22171

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### on non combustible

-- and to focus on 1



### noncombustibles much more robust. Here are the 2


### strong points of the Clean Power Plan as I see 3



### it. 4



### Number one, the co

- benefits. That means 5


### when carbon dioxide is reduced many other air 6


### pollutants are also reduced like sulfur dioxide, 7


### nitrous oxides, and mercury. These outdoor air 8


### pollutants are considered carcinogenic, therefore 9



### when there are less of them there's less lung 10



### cancer, less bladder cancer, less memory loss. 11



### Number two, less carbon dioxide means 12


### lower utility b ills. That is always good for 13



### everyone's pockets. 14


### Lastly, number three, lowering carbon 15


### dioxide equals lowing greenhouse gases in the 16


### atmosphere and addressing the impacts carbon 17


### dioxide has on global heating, less ocean 18


### acidification help fisheries, less extreme 19


### weather patterns will help agriculture and 20


### commerce, and lastly, maybe climate change will 21


### have it's own health benefits by reducing the 22172

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### ferocity of floods, tornados, and hurricanes. 1


### There are many things in our world we 2



### cannot fix. This one, we can. Here is what I 3



### believe this rule has to be. Number one, 4


### focusing on downstream carbon dioxide emissions 5


### from power plants and ignoring the upstream of 6


### coal and gas production is like a doctor treating 7


### the bruises without acknowledging the domestic 8



### v iolence happening at home. There is a high risk 9


### of health exposure and environmental hazards at 10


### each step of extraction, production, and 11


### transport. We must consider the entire life 12


### cycle of energy production. 13



### Number two, noncombustion sources of 14



### energy p roduction, like solar, wind, and 15


### geothermal, will help the states reach their 16



### carbon dioxide reductions faster and earlier with 17


### less greenhouse gas production. Switching coal 18


### power plants to natural gas or nuclear is like 19


### switching from one addictive drug to another. 20



### The problem has not been addressed. Natural gas 21



### and nuclear are not viable alternatives to coal. 22173

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### Lastly, number three, noncombustible 1


### energy reduction is a labor intensive economy 2


### increasing in new jobs. The occupational hazards 3



### are minimal and the sun and wind resources are 4


### not siphoned off like a fossil fuel cycles. 5


### Conversely coal miners and only gas 6


### workers have some of the most dangerous jobs in 7


### the United States. Switching away from these 8


### jobs to the ones that are much less hazardous, 9


### workers and laborers will benefit by staying 10


### healthy as well as continuing to be proud 11


### financial providers for themselves and their 12



### families. 13



### In summary, we must phase out coal, not 14


### transition to natural gas or nuclear, and fully 15



### embrace noncarbon, nonc ombustible sources of 16



### energy. 17


### I will end by pleading that this 18


### Administration transition from being the world 19


### leader in pollution to being the world leader in 20


### energy solution. Thank you. 21


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you both 22174

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### very much. All right. N ext up is Ellen 1


### Ziesenhene. If I pronounced that right and David 2



### Kepley. 3


### All right. Ms. Ziesenhene, want to 4



### start? And you'll need to spell your name. 5



### MS. ZIESENHENE: Yeah. Hello. My name 6



### is Ellen Ziesenhene, that's E

- L

- L

- E

- N Z

- I

- E

- S

- E

7



### N

- H

- E

- N

- E. 8



### I am an intern at Environment America and 9


### a student at the University of Georgia. I have 10



### come here today to express my concern for the 11


### future of our environment and society, as well as 12



### to show support for the proposed Clean Power 13



### Plan. 14


### Throughout my childh ood growing up in 15


### middle Georgia, and now as a Georgia college 16


### student, I have experienced very peculiar weather 17


### patterns, and I have also witnessed the 18


### devastating effects that it can have on a 19


### community that's not prepared for it. 20



### From almost unbearable hot summers to 21


### days in the winter reaching almost as high as 85 22175

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### degrees Fahrenheit, to this recent winter where 1


### we had the disastrous snowpocoalypse, and had 2



### class canceled for almost two weeks. Who knows 3


### what next year's winter will bring due to climate 4


### change if it continues. 5


### As an environmental leader on my school's 6


### campus, I constantly face economic based 7


### opposition, such as the claim that jobs will be 8


### lost, utility prices will increase, and that 9


### other countries will pollute more and advance 10



### more in th e production of cheap energy. 11



### These are the claims from climate deniers 12


### that stand against the environmental regulations. 13


### And I always answer back with them, with this 14


### question: How are we to have an economy when we 15



### don't have an Earth to live on? 16



### Whe n the Earth becomes uninhabitable and 17


### children can no longer play outside, or companies 18


### constantly have to deal with sick workers due to 19


### unclean air the economic argument is no longer a 20


### practical one and it's time to put the Earth 21



### first. 22176

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### Through the Clean Power Plan the United 1


### States will only have more reason to become on 2


### the front line of renewable energy industry. Why 3


### should we continue to support an industry that 4


### only harms the environment and has an actual time 5


### limit on its availability. It is our j ob as 6



### young, educated, and strong

- willed citizens of 7


### the United States to stand up to climate deniers. 8


### Being a young adult in the United States I have 9


### no excuse for ignorance. I have no excuse to 10


### deny the science of thousands of scientist. I 11



### have no exc use not to embrace this proposed plan 12


### to cut carbon emissions from power plants, and to 13


### stand strong against any opposers. 14



### We do not have the power to deny future 15


### generations of a healthy and sustainable planet. 16


### It is time now to make necessary changes so that 17


### the future generations can enjoy the same Earth 18


### that we have now. I am asking the young people 19


### of America to stand with the EPA and support the 20


### Clean Power Plan. We must work to stop climate 21


### change and the pollution of our Earth before it's 22177

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### too lat e. Thank you. 1


### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. David Kepley. 2


### MR. KEPLEY: My name is David Kepley, D

3



### A

- V

- I

- D K

- E

- P

- L

- E

- Y. 4


### Good afternoon. My name again is David 5


### Kepley, I am an elder and deacon at Providence 6


### Presbyterian Church in Fairfax, Virginia, and I 7



### am chair of our church's Earth Care Team. 8


### I also lead a group of 10 Presbyterian 9


### churches in the national capitol area that have 10


### earned the right to be called Earth Care 11


### congregations by annually meeting rigorous 12


### environmental standards set by your denominat ion. 13


### Thank you for giving me the opportunity to 14


### address the Environmental Protection Agency on 15



### this critical issue to our nation's health and 16


### wellbeing. 17


### I raise my voice with those around this 18


### country who praise you for having the courage to 19



### propose these regulations on new and existing 20


### power plants. I am hoping that this will be the 21


### first step towards a more comprehensive approach 22178

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### in reducing our nation's reliance on fossil 1



### fuels. 2


### I am speaking to you today as a faith 3


### leader in my community, and as the father of two 4


### wonderful young men. In my faith tradition when 5



### we want to understand how we are supposed to 6


### interact appropriately with each other we consult 7



### the Bible. 8


### One passage that illustrates much of what 9


### is central to my faith about the creation co mes 10


### from the book of Leviticus, where God says, "The 11


### land is mine. With me you are but aliens and 12



### tenants. Throughout the land that you hold you 13


### shall provide for the redemption of the land." 14



### These versus allude to several themes 15



### that are foundational to my concept of God's 16


### relationship to the creation and to humankind. 17


### The passage points to humanity's special role in 18


### God's creation. Humankind is an integral part of 19



### creation. 20


### But while God encourages us to draw 21



### sustenance from the land, we are also exp ected to 22179

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### redeem the land. In the Judeo

- Christian 1


### tradition this means that God expects humans to 2


### be faithful stewards of the creation, sharing 3



### with God and its maintenance. Failure to do so 4


### will disrupt the delicate balance God has 5


### established, to our pe ril. 6


### The passage also compares us with renters 7


### who cannot just do anything we please with the 8



### land, but must act in accordance with the wishes 9



### of the owner of the land. God. To me, this 10


### means that to be wasteful with the land's bounty, 11


### or to spoil it wit h substances that are harmful 12


### to people or other life forms, is not just 13


### unproductive, it is in an affront to God. It's 14


### the moral equivalent of writing graffiti on the 15


### Wailing Wall, the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, 16



### or the Dome of the Rock. 17


### In my view the EPA has identified one of 18


### those areas where we humans have ignored our role 19


### as good stewards of the creation. We know that 20



### coal is a carbon

- intensive fossil fuel whose 21


### combustion produces enormous amounts of 22180

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### greenhouse gas emissions. While these emissio ns 1


### will have a significant and inequitable impact on 2


### future generations through global climate change, 3


### they also have a deleterious impact on present 4


### generations through mercury pollution, acid rain, 5


### and the aesthetic destruction of mountaintops and 6



### valley s. 7


### This disproportionately impacts the most 8


### vulnerable members of our society. This leads me 9



### to the second reason that I wanted to address the 10


### EPA this afternoon. I'm a dad. One of my sons 11


### is a baseball player, like one of the other 12



### presenters told yo u today. And he suffered from 13


### asthma during most of his childhood. He's an 14


### active and energetic child, but always had to 15


### have his puffer with him in case he suffered a 16


### debilitating attack. 17


### We know that coal burning power plants 18



### introduce toxins in the ai r that can trigger 19


### asthmatic reactions among children. My second 20



### son contracted

-- was diagnosed with lymphoblast 21



### lymphoma when he was four years old. It's the 22181

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### same disease that killed Jackie Kennedy. 1


### But after an intensive chemotherapy 2


### regimen he later recovered from that and then he 3


### relapsed nine years later with leukemia. 4



### When I asked the doctors, where did this 5


### come from. The answer I got back is what you 6


### would expect from the doctors, which is, well, we 7


### really don't know just yet. It's some 8



### combi nation of heredity and environment. Well, 9


### my wife and I do not have any history of blood 10


### related cancers in our family. So what are the 11


### environment things? I don't know. I'm not 12


### laying this at the feet of the coal industry, but 13



### it stands to reason that when we put toxins in 14


### the air bad things can happen to people. 15



### So you've heard much from the power 16


### industry about how we cannot afford the EPA's 17


### proposed regulations. If my family is 18


### indication, any indication, and my son's 19



### healthcare costs ran into the hundreds of 20


### thousands of dollars, we are already paying that 21


### price through high healthcare costs. Thank you 22182

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### very much for your kind attention. 1



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you both very much. 2



### MS. ZIESENHENE: Thank you. 3



### MR. KEPLEY: Thank you. 4



### MR. DEMOCKER: Okay . Next up is Eva 5


### Muszynski and Jose Aguto. Hopefully I pronounced 6



### those correctly. 7



### MS. MUSZYNSKI: Close. 8



### MR. DEMOCKER: Close? Okay. A lot of 9


### people coming in and out and I just wanted to say 10


### again how much we appreciate your coming in to 11


### give us your views. 12



### MS. MUSZYNSKI: Good afternoon. My name 13


### is Eva Muszynski, E

- V

- A M

- U

- S

- Z

- Y

- N

- S

- K

- I. 14


### So like I said, my name is Eva Muszynski 15



### and I'm here today to tell you about how carbon 16


### pollution has affected my life and why I support 17



### the EPA's Clean Power Plan. 18


### Growing up in Northern Virginia I spent 19


### time each summer sailing on the Potomac River 20


### just south of the city. I have seen the 21


### transformation of the D.C. skyline from being 22183

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### able to see the details of the starch white 1


### capitol building from miles away, to what I now 2


### see every weekend; a hazy outline of what I know 3


### is the capitol, but looks as if it's caught in a 4



### perpetual shadow of darkness. 5



### But the darkness isn't a cloud, but the 6


### carbon pollution that looms overhead from the 7


### hundreds of power plants i n this area. Although 8


### I've seen how the carbon pollution can transform 9


### a city skyline, what has struck me the most is 10


### the visible affects on our coral reefs caused by 11


### global warming and thus, carbon emissions, I have 12


### seen in my lifetime. 13


### One of my favorit e childhood memories was 14


### in a family vacation in the Florida Keys. We 15


### stayed in a small house on the beach with the 16


### coral reef right offshore. Within the first few 17


### days we were there it would take my dad holding 18


### my hand as I would float with a mask on my face 19


### and a snorkel in my mouth for me to feel 20


### comfortable entering this underwater world. 21



### By the end of the week I refused to leave 22184

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### the water for hours, fascinated with the vibrant 1



### fish that darted too and fro, colorful coral 2


### feeding on the particles and nutrients that 3


### floated by, and the occasional barracuda that 4



### would stare me down. 5


### My love for the ocean flourished on this 6


### trip at the age of eight and has only magnified 7


### since. I am now at the University of Miami 8


### studying marine science and biology, and have the 9


### pleasure of SCUBA diving practically every 10



### weekend. 11


### After returning to the same coral reef 12


### this past semester I was devastated to find that 13


### what had been a healthy coral reef is now 14


### bleached, dying, and deserted from the plethora 15



### of life that was previously there. Higher sea 16


### temperatures from global warming have caused 17


### major coral bleaching events on reefs I've been 18


### visiting for years. Some coral are able to 19



### recover, but far too often the coral dies and the 20


### entire ecosystem for which it forms th e base 21


### virtually disappears. 22185

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### From the fish that we catch on the reef 1


### that provide the livelihoods for many coastal 2


### communities, to the plankton that provides 75 3



### percent of the oxygen on Earth, we need these 4


### reefs to sustain life and our economy and cannot 5


### afford to lose them to global warming. 6


### My future children will never get to see 7



### the reefs that have already been lost. But I 8



### urge our leaders to support the Clean Power Plan 9


### and these first ever limits on carbon pollution 10


### so that future generations have a chance to see 11



### how incredible the undersea world is before 12


### global warming causes them all to disappear. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Mr. Aguto. 15



### MR. AGUTO: Great. Thank you. Thank 16


### you. Thank you for this opportunity to share our 17



### views on EPA' s Clean Power Plan. My name is Jose 18



### Aguto, J

- O

- S

- E A

- G

- U

- T

- O. 19


### I represent the Friend's Committee on 20


### National Legislation, Quaker Lobby and the public 21



### interest. 22186

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### Nearing our 71st year FCNL is the oldest 1


### peace lobby in the country and is housed in the 2



### first LEED certified building on Capitol Hill. 3


### Grounded in the values of simplicity, peace, 4


### compassion, and equality we are active in our 5


### witness and advocacy for a world which reflects 6



### these values. 7



### We and other Quakers across the country 8



### today offer our tes timony because we, like so 9


### many in so many faith traditions, recognize 10


### climate disruption as one of the greatest moral 11


### and practical challenges of our time. We are 12


### deeply concerned about its impacts on vulnerable 13


### communities, ecosystems and economies, and on the 14


### pacific co

- existence of humankind. 15


### Elite institutions in prominent sectors 16


### across the world also find climate change to be a 17


### grave challenge, including the U.S. military, 18



### NATO, the World Bank, businesses like General 19



### Mills and Coca Cola. As Christ ine Lagarde, 20


### Managing Director of the International Monetary 21


### Fund said to the global elite last year, "If we 22187

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### do not act on climate change, future generations 1


### will be roasted, toasted, fried, and grilled." 2


### The leaders of the 141 nations who signed 3



### the clima te, the Copenhagen Accord, including 4


### President Obama, recognized that the increase in 5



### global temperatures should be kept below 2 6


### degrees Celsius, and which requires deep cuts in 7


### global greenhouse gas emissions. 8


### To meet this goal and to prevent grave 9



### harm to present and future generations it is well 10



### settled that at least two thirds of the world's 11


### proven fossil fuel reserves must remain in the 12



### ground. 13



### This is the clear, measurable, and 14


### daunting challenge of our time, yet the global 15


### community has not yet embr aced it. This is why 16


### we are so grateful that the EPA has taken this 17



### monumental step through the Clean Power Plan that 18


### may result in the national and international 19


### solutions to get us through this crisis. 20


### At the same time we urge the plan step 21


### more firmly into this larger challenge. Science 22188

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### and policy joined with faith in affirming the 1


### dignity of every human person in the care for 2


### creation. For as Pope Francis has said, quite 3


### simply, if we destroy creation it will destroy 4



### us. 5


### Viewed through this lens then what are 6


### the social, ecological, economic, and human costs 7


### of the various options EPA presents to the 8


### states? Preferable options examined across their 9


### life cycles would emit little or no greenhouse 10



### gases, would not harm the health of people's 11



### communities and ecosystems, would be cost 12


### effective, and create long

- term economic and job 13


### growth. Through this lens we hope the final rule 14


### reflects a different version of options, some of 15


### which I'll highlight now and elaborate in my 16



### written comments. 17



### If the world m ust keep two thirds of the 18


### world's proven fossil fuel reserves in the ground 19


### then we must question the proposed rule's support 20


### for natural gas. Indeed recent studies indicate 21


### that methane pollution may make natural gas just 22189

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### as bad for the climate as coal and could 1


### undermine 36 percent of the climate benefits 2


### derived from the plan. 3


### The economic, ecological, and health 4



### costs of nuclear energy from cradle to grave are 5


### too costly. One aspect not addressed in the plan 6



### relates to the extraction of nuclear fue ls. Some 7


### tribal nations have paid a great price. 8


### Several years ago I traveled into the 9


### heart of Navajo Nation and met with an elder who 10


### pointed to an abandoned mine staining the side of 11



### a mesa near her home. She said the Federal 12



### Government considers th is land to be a national 13



### sacrifice area. There are over 1,000 radioactive 14



### waste sites and 520 abandoned uranium mines on 15


### Navajo Nation alone. Is this how we treat our 16


### indigenous peoples? 17



### Long

- term solutions can be found in 18


### energy efficiency, renewable e nergy, and a price 19



### on carbon. Low carbon solutions that create 20


### jobs. Energy efficiency is an ideal option. The 21


### cheapest and greenest unit of energy is the unit 22190

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### not used and jobs are created in the process. 1


### The final rule should expressly list the 2


### pric e on carbon pollution as an option for 3



### states. British Columbia has enacted a carbon 4



### tax which continues to reduce its carbon 5


### emissions while improving its economy. We also 6


### support the testimony of Jalonne White

- Newsome of 7



### We Act. 8


### In conclusion we applau d EPA's 9



### unprecedented and courageous step to reduce 10


### national greenhouse gas emissions. It is the 11


### first step in meeting our moral and practical 12


### duty to our fellow human beings, our Earth, and 13


### the generations to come. Let us together make it 14



### a great one. Thank you. 15


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you for 16



### your comments, both. 17



### MR. AGUTO: Thank you. 18


### MR. DEMOCKER: Okay. Next we will hear 19


### from Braden Lagard and Darriel Harris. Are 20


### either or both of them here? Oh, okay. We have 21



### one. Okay. You've got the table to yourself. 22191

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### MR. HARRIS: Okay. 1


### MR. DEMOCKER: So go ahead and identify 2



### yourself and spell your name. 3


### MR. HARRIS: Yes. My name is Darriel 4



### Harris, that's D

- A

- R

- R

- I

- E

- L, Harris, H

- A

- R

- R

- I

5



### S. 6



### MR. DEMOCKER: Okay. 7


### REV. HARRIS: Hello. My name is Reve rend 8


### Darriel Harris. I speak to you today as an 9



### ordained Christian minister and on behalf of the 10


### Baltimore Food and Faith Project, an initiative 11


### run out of Johns Hopkins University Center for a 12



### Livable Future. 13


### Our mission is to promote a just, 14



### healthy, and trustworthy food system with 15


### Baltimore Area Faith Communities. Over the past 16


### several years we've partnered with over 70 17


### congregations and interfaced with members from 18


### over 500 Baltimore area congregations across 19



### different faiths and denominations. 20



### T hank you for giving me the opportunity 21


### to testify in support of the new carbon pollution 22192

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### standards for existing power plants. 1


### Our current trajectory on pollutants and 2


### climate change not only threatens the physical 3


### wellbeing of our constituents and every ci tizen 4



### and visitors across America in the form of asthma 5


### and other respiratory dangers, but it also poses 6


### a significant threat to our food system. 7


### Our weather patterns are becoming 8


### increasingly severe. Anecdotally in the 9


### beautiful state of Maryland, my b irth state and 10


### current residence, tornado watches and warnings 11


### have grown from an uncharacteristic threat to a 12



### familiar alarm. 13



### Across American severe weather 14


### increasingly damages crops, farming machinery, 15


### and animal houses. Rising temperatures in our 16



### oc eans, rivers, and bays are negatively impacting 17



### the environment of our fish and other seafood. 18


### It is now undeniable that carbon pollutants 19


### significantly contribute to the danger in which 20


### we find ourselves. And it is not just a danger 21



### to breathe, but a da nger to our most basic 22193

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### necessities and in common leisurely activity, a 1



### danger to eat. 2


### For many in Baltimore city eating is not 3


### a new challenge. Over 20 percent of Baltimore 4


### City residents live in food deserts, an area 5


### where healthy food, fresh produce, is simply not 6


### accessible. Many more suffer from the reality 7


### that healthy foods is not affordable. To help 8


### combat this, religious communities across faiths 9


### and denominations have initiated congregational 10


### gardens that help supplement the growing food gap 11



### in Baltimore area communities. Additionally 12


### several groups and coalitions have joined forces 13



### to glean from area farms, set up local food 14


### markets, and provide education to avail fresh 15


### produce to populations where fresh produce is not 16


### readily available, or aff ordable. 17



### For those who wish to consume food from 18


### just, trustworthy, environmentally friendly 19


### sources, urban and regional food has become 20


### increasingly available at farmer's markets, farm 21


### to table restaurants and community supported 22194

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### agriculture, or CSA drive s. 1


### During this current growing season, many 2


### of these valuable and frankly life

- altering 3


### efforts were delayed and hindered by polar 4


### vortexes at the start of the growing season. The 5


### unpredictability of our weather which impacts our 6


### agriculture and the way w e eat is a growing 7


### concern that is felt foremost by those who 8


### already find eating a challenge. 9


### The new carbon pollution standards for 10


### existing power plants put forth by the EPA is a 11


### reasonable step to curb a portion of pollutants 12


### that drive climate chang e. 13



### As I close I am reminded of St. Francis 14


### of Assisi's understanding of neighbor. St. 15


### Francis took seriously the Lord's mandate to love 16


### his neighbor as himself. St. Francis was able to 17


### love the least of those in his area, lepers and 18



### paupers, but he als o understood that he had a 19


### kinship with all things on the Earth. After all, 20



### he too came from and would eventually return to 21


### the soil. So Francis began to understand his 22195

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### neighbor to be not only other people who equally 1


### relied on the Earth's outputs for li fe, but Earth 2



### herself. 3



### Consequently he began to honor, respect, 4


### and become a better steward of neighbor Earth 5



### that sustained his life. And it is in the 6


### tradition of St. Francis, the convictions of my 7


### Christian ministry and the goals of Baltimore 8



### Food an d Faith Project and its affiliates, that I 9


### thank you for the new standards of existing power 10


### plants and implore you to enforce these standards 11


### and develop additional ways to curb carbon 12


### pollution in America. Thank you. 13


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you very 14



### much for your comments. 15


### Okay. Next up we have Richard Cizik and 16


### Mary Minette. If I have the names wrong, I 17


### apologize. I'm only going by what they have 18



### written down here. 19


### All right. We'll start with Richard 20



### Cizik. 21



### REV. CIZIK: Good afternoon. M y name is 22196

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### Richard Cizik. It's spelled C

- I

- Z

- I

- K. 1


### I speak here this afternoon in my 2


### capacity as President of the New Evangelical 3


### Partnership for the Common Good as an ordained 4


### Evangelical Presbyterian minister, and as a 5


### representative as a Board Member in fact of the 6


### Virginia Interfaith Power and Light Organization. 7



### And I would like to thank, on behalf of all the 8


### Americans who want to address the devastating 9


### health impacts of industrial carbon pollution. 10


### Like an Evangelical, having worked in 11



### this town f or 28 years for the National 12


### Association of Evangelicals I'm prone to testify 13


### by personal witness. We Evangelicals do that. 14


### And so I would like to say I speak as a father 15


### and parent of a teenage son who just turned 21. 16


### John is six foot five, a healthy y oung man. 17


### However, seven, eight years ago he was 18


### diagnosed with serious asthma. And on occasion 19



### before we really understood what was even 20


### happening we heard him cry out, I can't breathe. 21


### It was a frightening experience when your child 22197

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### can't breath. 1



### W e got him to the doctor's office, he as 2


### diagnosed and prescribed medicine and an inhaler 3


### that he still needs to carry with him. I've 4


### spoken of this before on one occasion and 5


### industry spokesman said, well, so Reverend Cizik 6


### wants to subject upon the rest of the nation 7


### carbon regulation because his son almost died. I 8



### would suggest to you from your own data that by 9



### 2030, this carbon rule that we're here about 10


### today will reduce the number of victims. You 11


### could call them, yes, victims, of particle 12


### pollution and ozone by 130, 140, to 150,000 young 13



### kids. 14


### So this really is about human life. It's 15


### about protecting young kids and others. It's 16


### also true that while I was intellectually aware 17


### of these things I wasn't personally aware of the 18


### impacts of the environmen t on my own body until I 19


### was asked by the Environmental Working Group to 20


### be a part of the Human Toxome Project. And so I 21



### became one of the small number of Americans to 22198

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### know my own personal body burden called, the 1



### Human Toxome. Toxome. 2



### And so I can repo rt from the book that 3


### was given to me as a result of testing of me that 4


### 39 of the 84 industrial compounds that I was 5


### tested for, including pollutants and the like, 6


### are present in my own body. I won't go into all 7



### the metals, methyl mercury and mercury, but they 8


### are significantly high, in fact, 87th percentile. 9


### Only 13 percent of the public has higher 10



### exposure. 11


### So scientists are only beginning to study 12


### the health impacts. 13


### We heard from a reverend, Presbyterian 14


### like myself, who also spoke about these and I 15


### would say in listening to his testimony that, 16


### look, people do die. Young people die. Adults 17


### like myself die. And genetics, timing, and dose 18


### all pay a role in all of this, but what we're 19


### here about today is really, really important. 20



### And this carbon ru le for regulating 21


### existing power plants is absolutely essential to 22199

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### change the reality that we have in this country. 1


### So I was asked, well, what is this reality? 2


### Well, I checked with the American Lung 3


### Association's State of the Air 2014 report, just 4



### becaus e, well, an editor asked me to. He said, 5


### you talk about this in your own area of Stafford 6


### County. What are they? What are the figures? 7



### Well, I found out in the State of 8


### Virginia, for example, those counties and cities 9


### that submitted to testing, over hal f received 10


### failing grades for levels of ozone. Including 11


### Alexandria, Arlington, Chesterfield, Fairfax, 12


### Hampton, Hanover, Henry, Henrico, Loudoun, 13



### Stafford and Suffolk. 14



### And so we know that all over the 15


### Washington Metropolitan region is the eight most 16



### pollu ted in the country for ozone. So this is 17



### very real. 18


### And so I would conclude by saying more 19


### and more children, the elderly, and others are 20


### going to be impacted, have their lives changed 21


### forever, and maybe even die if you don't act. 22200

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### And I believe God is telling me to speak out on 1


### these issues, and as an Evangelical Christian I 2



### believe that we must be stewards of God's 3


### creation. And it seems very clear to me that 4


### this energy point that you have proposed, that 5


### you're hearing comments from us today on, is a n 6


### absolutely essential tool for accomplishing the 7



### end. 8


### And so in conclusion I would say, do not 9



### be delayed. Do not be deterred. Do not be 10


### impeded. We will do our part as citizens. We 11


### will work hard to make sure that Congress doesn't 12


### accomplish this e ither, and others, to kill this 13


### rule because the very lives of Americans are at 14



### stake. Thank you. 15


### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Mary Minette. 16


### MS. MINETTE: Thank you. My name is Mary 17



### Minette. It's M

- A

- R

- Y M

- I

- N

- E

- T

- T

- E. And I'm 18



### the director for Environmen tal Education and 19


### Advocacy for the Evangelical Lutheran Church in 20



### America. 21


### The ELCA is one of the largest Christian 22201

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### denominations in the United States with about 1


### four million members and nearly 10,000 2


### congregations across the 50 states and in the 3



### Caribbean . Lutherans believe that we are called 4


### by God to love and serve our neighbors, 5


### particularly those who live in poverty. And that 6



### we are also called to be stewards of God's 7



### creation. 8


### Reducing hunger and alleviating global 9


### poverty is a key concern for peop le of faith. 10



### Yet as we look to our future that work faces a 11


### daunting problem. You will need to address 12


### hunger and poverty in an ever more challenging 13


### climate. The ELCA supports ministries that 14


### respond to weather related disasters both in the 15



### U.S. and gl obally, and we know from those 16



### ministries that extreme weather events have 17


### severe impacts on low

- income individuals and 18


### communities. And we are told by scientists that 19


### these extreme events are growing and will 20


### continue to grow worse due to a change in glo bal 21



### climate. 22202

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### We know that climate change has many 1


### other health impacts and that those impacts fall 2



### hardest on those who are most vulnerable, 3


### including children and the elderly, and 4


### particularly hard on vulnerable people who live 5


### in poverty. 6



### And we are already seeing the impact that 7


### a changing climate can have on food production 8


### and food security, with the drought in California 9



### as only the most recent example. 10


### The ELCA and our congregations, together 11


### with communities of faith around the country are 12



### worki ng to reduce our own energy footprint in 13


### recognition of the growing threat, climate 14



### change. 15



### However, we also know that what each of 16


### us does out of faith and a sense of stewardship 17


### is not enough. To reduce our nation's 18


### significant contribution to global carbon dioxide 19


### emissions, we must act collectively to reduce 20


### emissions from power plants and other major 21


### sources of carbon pollution. 22203

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### For this reason, we strongly support the 1


### proposed rule to limit carbon emissions from 2


### existing power plants. ELCA Luthera ns are 3


### speaking at each of the hearings being held this 4


### week and sending in our comments to the EPA 5


### because we believe that this rule is an important 6


### and necessary step toward taking responsibility 7


### for our role in causing the Earth's climate to 8



### change. We believe that climate change is a 9


### moral issue that calls each of us to speak out of 10


### our faith in support of strong decisive action. 11


### Reducing carbon emissions from power 12


### plants must be a top priority for our country and 13


### the world if we are going to preven t the worst 14


### impacts of climate change. Last winter I heard a 15


### colleague from a development agency in the 16


### Philippines speak about the difficulties her 17


### country would have rebuilding after Typhoon 18


### Haiyan, which had hit just as the UN Climate 19


### Change meeting in Warsaw was beginning. 20


### She noted that many communities would 21


### likely never recover from the damage done by the 22204

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### storm. She said that she and her country 1


### appreciated the moral, financial and other 2



### support from the U.S. and other parts of the 3



### world that follo wed the storm. But she also said 4


### that what the Philippines and other nations and 5


### communities facing climate disaster need from the 6


### global community is not just our financial 7


### support and our prayers, but our solidarity. 8


### They need us to stand with them and to work with 9


### them to prevent the worst impacts of climate 10


### change from becoming reality. 11


### Taking strong and decisive action to 12


### reduce power plants emissions is one way to 13


### demonstrate that solidarity that climate impacted 14



### communities need and deserve. 15



### In these hearings you will undoubtedly 16


### hear from people who believe that this rule is 17


### too costly, that it will harm our economy and 18


### eliminate jobs. As the economic analysis that 19


### accompanies the rule amply demonstrates, some 20


### jobs will be lost and some industr ies will be 21


### impacted by this rule as it begins to take 22205

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### effect. However, your research and past evidence 1


### from implementation of similar rules also 2


### indicates that jobs will be created because of 3


### the innovation needed to implement the rule, 4


### particularly in e nergy efficiency and renewable 5


### energy that will lead us to a more robust and 6


### cleaner economy in the future. 7


### The arguments of economic impact and job 8


### loss also ignore the cost of doing nothing, 9


### although allowing global temperatures to continue 10


### their upward trend and Earth's climate to become 11


### less and less predictable. Losses in 12


### productivity, increases in food prices, dwindling 13


### supplies of water all will have steep costs and 14


### huge economic impacts, together with the 15


### continued cost of responding to ever more 16



### f requent weather disasters. 17


### We are faced with an important choice. 18



### We can act now and help to prevent future 19


### generations and God's creation from the worst 20


### impacts of climate change. Or we can fail to act 21



### and let our children and the Earth suffer the 22206

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### conse quences. This rule is a critical step in 1


### the right direction. We look forward to your 2


### finalizing these rules in the coming months and 3


### thank you for your continued efforts to ensure a 4


### just and sustainable world for this generation 5



### and the next. 6



### MR. DEMOCK ER: All right. Thanks very 7



### much for your comments. I have one more card 8


### with two people so we'll hear from them and then 9



### we'll take a short break and come back and start 10



### -- well, maybe we'll squeeze in one more after 11



### that. 12


### Sarah Via and Gary Ewart. I hope I’m 13


### pronouncing those correctly. 14


### MS. VIA: Hi. My name is Sarah Via, V 15



### like Victor, I

- A. And I'm a professor of biology 16


### at the University of Maryland in College Park. 17



### You have heard many, many people say 18


### today that the urgency for action on climate 19


### change is increasing every day. There are news 20


### articles daily about the consequences of waiting 21


### to take action. And it's way, way past time for 22207

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### the U.S. to step up as a role model in the world. 1


### We're trailing now. We should be leading. 2



### With action in Congress virtually at a 3


### standstill due to antiscience and scientifically 4


### illiterate elements, representatives, this EPA 5


### rule and the carbon reduction plan is one of the 6


### only avenues we have right now for meaningful 7



### carbon emission reductions. And this mak es it 8


### hugely important. You know, it's the one piece 9


### of hope I've seen on the landscape in quite a 10


### while. And with this one rule huge progress, 11


### tangible progress, can be made. 12


### Let's be clear about climate change. 13


### Climate change and the role of fossil fu el 14


### combustion in climate change is not an opinion. 15



### It is not a bunch of liberal scientists or 16


### liberal professors like myself making this up. 17


### The data are all in. It is not an opinion. 18


### And this has sadly, sadly escaped many of 19


### our legislators. And I'm thinking perhaps when 20


### we solve the climate change problem we can turn 21


### our attention to increasing the scientific 22208

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### literacy of American's in general, and our 1


### elected officials in particular. 2


### Coal combustion accounts for 40 percent 3



### of all U.S. emissions. So by controlling carbon 4


### emissions from existing power plants, that's the 5



### definition of low

- hanging fruit. You can close 6


### very aged, very inefficient plants and improve 7


### the efficiency of other plants and make a real 8


### difference. So I urge the EPA to resist a ny 9


### efforts over the next year, I guess, which is the 10


### comment period, to weaken the rule and to fend 11


### off all cries from whatever source they come for 12


### exemptions from the rule. 13


### Moreover I applaud the EPA in making the 14


### rule very flexible for states to impleme nt, and I 15


### hope that the EPA will strongly support the 16


### states as they try to implement the rule. 17


### Burning coal is not just about carbon change. In 18



### the half hour I've been in this room I've heard 19


### many impacts of coal burning on health, et 20



### cetera. 21


### Burning co al is known to emit acid 22209

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### forming gases, which is one of the causes of very 1


### severe respiratory problems like asthma. These 2



### coal

- burning power plants also emit large amounts 3


### mercury, lead, arsenic, heavy metals, and about 4


### 75 other serious poisons. Many of these 5


### compounds as they're being, you know, emitted out 6


### these smokestacks, adhere to the tiny bits of 7


### soot that are coming out, and they are then 8



### breathed in. The soot is so small that these 9


### poisons can easily get into the bloodstream and 10



### this is what the roots in which sickness and even 11


### death is caused by emissions from these power 12



### plants. 13



### As of 2005

-- well, Baltimore has some of 14


### the worst air in the country. And as of 2005 I 15


### did the calculations based on a recent paper out 16



### of MIT. And Baltimore reside nts could expect 17


### over 800 extra deaths a year in their city, just 18


### from toxic emissions, mostly from the coal

- fired 19


### power plants within the community. This is an 20


### incredible burden to place on not just this city 21


### but cities all over the country. 22210

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### Other impa cts of climate change, of 1


### course, are severe weather, impacts on 2


### agriculture, food security, water security, 3


### political stability. Another downside of coal 4


### burning is not the health impacts, but the coal 5


### burned in this area comes straight from 6


### mountaintop removal mining, which itself is an 7



### environmental disaster. 8


### I was preparing a lecture two years ago 9


### about human impacts on ecosystems for my freshman 10


### biology class, and I was talking about 11


### mountaintop removal mining. And I thought, oh, 12


### I'll just look up wh ere my coal comes

-- where 13



### the coal they use for my power comes from. And I 14


### was shocked to find that it comes straight from 15


### mountaintop removal mining. And I thought, I 16


### cannot go in front of my class tomorrow and talk 17


### about mountaintop removal mining whi le my power 18


### is coming from there. So I immediately used my 19


### privilege of switching and I switched to wind 20


### power, which many of us could do. 21


### Natural gas, as many people have said so 22211

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### far, is not the solution. It substitutes one 1



### health problem for another. So what we need is 2



### really a four

- part plan. We need a price on 3



### carbon because people value and reduce the use of 4


### what they have to pay for. We need emission 5


### controls like the one in this plan. We 6


### desperately need to increase efficiency, and we 7



### have the technology to do that. 8


### And while coal advocates may say, oh, 9


### this is going to cost consumers too much, just 10


### consider the health costs that we're paying, and 11


### the fact that in 2011 and 2012 the taxpayers paid 12


### $188 billion for disaster relief. Yet, we can' t 13


### come up with $4 billion for advances in 14


### efficiency. There's something wrong with running 15


### a country like that. Okay? Spending the money 16



### after the fact. 17


### So in conclusion I just want to say I 18


### strongly support the EPA and these strict 19



### standards for emissi ons from coal

- fired power 20



### plants plans. Thank you. 21



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Mr. Ewart. 22212

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### MR. EWART: Hello. I'm Gary Ewart. Last 1



### name, E

- W

- A

- R

- T. And I'm here for the American 2


### Thoracic Society. 3


### American Thoracic Society is a 4


### professional organization w ith over 14,000 5


### physicians, scientists, and allied healthcare 6


### professionals dedicated to the prevention and 7


### treatment of respiratory disease, critical care 8


### illnesses, and sleep disorder problems. We 9


### pursue our mission through research, education, 10



### and advo cacy. 11


### I have to say climate change is real and 12


### it's somewhat frustrating in taking time out of 13


### my five minutes to say that. But the ATS 14


### believes strongly that the available evidence 15


### suggests it is clear and comprehensive that the 16


### climate is changing and the climate is changing 17


### as a result of human emissions. And that is why 18


### the American Thoracic Society strongly supports 19


### EPA and its proposal to limit carbon emissions 20


### from existing power plants. 21


### The ATS recently convened and published a 22213

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### report on the re spiratory health effects of 1


### climate change. And I have a copy of the report 2


### to leave with you to show the staff. 3


### And there are several major respiratory 4



### health effects that we would argue that are 5


### currently happening or are projected to happen as 6



### a resu lt of climate change. These respiratory 7


### health effects include change in pollen releases 8


### impacting asthma and allergic rhinitis. Heat 9


### waves causing critical care related illnesses, 10


### climate driven air pollution increases 11


### exacerbating asthma and chronic ob structive 12


### pulmonary disease, as well as cardiovascular 13


### disease, desertification increasing particulate 14


### matter exposures, and climate change related to 15


### changes in the food and water security impacting 16


### infectious respiratory disease and malnutrition. 17



### Rather than focus my time today on the 18


### projected

-- the current and projected adverse 19


### health effects of climate change, I will talk 20



### about some of the expected co

- benefits of 21


### controlling carbon emissions. 22214

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### First we should note that EPA is entirely 1



### correct and prop er in focusing its rule on 2


### existing power plants. It is approximately one 3


### third of all U.S. carbon emissions coming from 4


### power plants. So we think that is appropriate so 5


### as for EPA to suggest regulations. 6


### Second, reducing carbon pollution 7



### emissions fro m power plants will yield 8


### significant co

- benefits. And reductions of the 9



### co

- pollutants like ozone and particulate matter. 10


### For the states to meet their EPA proposed initial 11


### limits through improvements in existing power 12


### plants, switching to alternative fue ls, energy 13



### conservation, or a combination of all those 14


### methods, the bottom line is reducing production 15



### and carbon emissions as well as other co

16


### pollutants. Particularly hazards, co

- pollutants. 17


### Existing research clearly shows that 18


### reducing hazardous air pollutants like those on 19


### particular matter will improve human health. 20


### These improvements can be measured in reductions 21



### in asthma and COPD exacerbations, reduce cardiac 22215

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### events and improvements in low birth weights, 1


### just to name a few. 2



### Well, there are numer ous studies that are 3


### trying to both project and enumerate the co

4



### benefits, the human health co

- benefits of 5


### reductions in carbon emissions. I want to bring 6


### your attention to one of the more recent reports, 7


### because I'm sure if you know the Harvard 8



### Universit y and Syracuse University reports. I 9


### want to take four key findings from this report. 10


### First, that strong carbon emission 11


### standards from existing power plants would 12



### decrease emissions of co

- pollutants and 13


### contribute to local and regional air pollution by 14



### a pproximately 775,000 tons per year, compared to 15


### business as usual comparison in the year 2020. 16



### Second, the report shows that by 17


### decreasing emissions of co

- pollutants, a strong 18


### carbon pollution standard would improve air 19


### quality and decrease the deposition of harmful 20


### air pollutants. 21


### Third, the report notes that with a 22216

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### strong carbon standard, air quality and 1


### deposition recruitments would be widespread and 2


### enjoyed by people living in every state, with the 3


### greatest benefit in those in the Ohio River 4



### Valley Ar ea and the Rocky Mountain Region. 5


### And finally the analysis suggests that 6


### stronger pollution standard in terms of both 7


### stringency and flexibility, the stronger it is 8


### the greater and more widespread the benefits 9



### would be. 10


### So in summary the American Thora cic 11


### Society strongly supports EPA's efforts to 12


### establish policy to limit carbon emissions from 13


### existing power plants. We encourage EPA to move 14


### forward to with this proposal and expect that our 15


### nation will enjoy both near and long

- term health 16



### benefits asso ciated with a strong carbon 17



### standard. Thank you. 18


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you both 19


### for your comments. Much appreciated. 20



### We have one more card so we'll take one 21



### more and then we'll take a break and let the 22217

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### paperwork catch up. So, Tricia Bruckbaue r. 1



### MS. BRUCKBAUER: So it's Tricia, T

- R

- I

- C

2



### I

- A, Bruckbauer, B

- R

- U

- C

- K

- B

- A

- U

- E

- R. 3



### Hello. I am here on behalf of Creation 4


### Justice Ministries, an ecumenical organization 5


### that represents the creation care policies of 38 6



### Christian denominations. This inclu des your 7



### mainline Protestant churches, orthodox 8


### communions, some Baptist conventions, a few peace 9



### churches and some others that round out the 38. 10


### As I'm sure you can imagine, we do not 11


### agree on many things. However, we do agree on 12



### the need to be stewards of creation, care for 13


### God's Earth, and seek justice for God's people. 14


### One of the biggest moral issues of our 15


### time is climate change and its effects on people 16



### across the globe. One doesn't need to look very 17


### far to understand why we care about climate 18



### chan ge, as the reasoning can be found in our 19



### sacred text. 20



### As Christians, we are called to be 21



### stewards of creation and till the land which 22218

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### comes from the first book of the Bible. And in 1


### the gospel of Matthew, Christ calls us to care 2


### for our neighbors, especi ally the least of these. 3


### Climate change disproportionately impacts 4



### the very people that we are called to serve. 5


### Those that have consistently contributed the 6


### least to our changing climate are generally the 7



### ones who suffer the most. Our brothers and 8



### sister s who are least equipped to respond to the 9


### impacts that arise from a changing climate tend 10



### to be low

- income communities, communities of 11


### color, the elderly, and children. 12


### The impacts that we are already seeing in 13


### our country include sea levels rising, incre ased 14


### wildfires, drought, and extreme heat waves, and 15


### super storms. It is a known assertion that those 16


### with enough money, both individuals and nations, 17


### will fare all right and be capable of adapting to 18


### some of these changes. But my faith calls me to 19



### care for those without, those that can so easily 20



### be left behind. 21



### Because we are called to care for the 22219

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### least of these, we would like to ensure that when 1


### this necessary rule is implemented that low

2


### income consumers do not bear heavy burdens. We 3



### ask that the EPA work with states and utilities 4


### to guarantee that these consumers with limited 5


### means do not experience price increases in 6


### utility bills or compromise reliability. 7


### I also want to emphasize another 8


### important reason for implementing this rule. We 9



### view clean air as a gift from God, an advocate 10


### for the right of all God's people to breathe 11


### freely. By curbing emissions from power plants 12


### we will be making great strides toward cleaning 13


### up the air that we breathe. 14


### Similar to the effects being felt by 15



### climate chan ge, those that are most adversely 16


### affected by air pollution tend to be the very 17



### same communities that I stated before. 18


### Responding to the injustices of pollution is 19


### important to people of faith and should be 20


### important to industry leaders as well. 21



### This rule begins to address air pollution 22220

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### so that diseases and asthma attacks occur less 1



### often and clean air is available to all. I would 2



### also like to state for the record that I am 23 3


### years old. With the exception of a nasty allergy 4



### to cats, I am blessed to be i ncredibly healthy. 5



### The latest reports have me and those my age 6


### living another 60 plus years on this Earth. 7



### There is an abundance of research, scientific 8


### fact, and knowledge portraying the future in 9


### extremely frightening terms that the majority of 10



### young p eople know and believe. 11


### It is disheartening that those with the 12


### power to influence change do not always take the 13


### futures of following generations into account. 14



### Those that came before me, my grandparents, great 15



### grandparents, and those before them, helped build 16


### this country as best they knew how. However, we 17



### now know the consequences to the Earth and people 18


### everywhere of creating engineering and operating 19


### in a society based on fossil fuel consumption. 20



### I want to be able to tell my 21


### grandchildren that they h ave beautiful pieces of 22221

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### creation to experience because once we knew 1


### better we changed our actions and we did better. 2


### I want to be proud that when we realized there 3


### were better options we worked hard to innovate, 4



### progress, and adapt. 5


### The faith community ha s been working to 6


### address climate change for decades, and 7


### Christians everywhere are voicing their concern 8



### for creation and for our brothers and sisters as 9


### you are hearing this afternoon, in droves. Just 10


### yesterday morning many of us in the D.C. area 11



### gather ed outside of this building to pray and ask 12


### for God's grace and guidance for those of you at 13


### EPA and everyone providing comments. 14



### So while this rule alone will not fix our 15


### climate crisis, we view this as a vital step 16


### forward to begin seeking justice for God's planet 17



### and for God's people. Thank you. 18


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you very 19


### much. As we take a break I just want to say 20


### thank you to everyone who has provided testimony. 21


### Thank you for sharing your stories and your 22222

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### thoughts on our proposed ru le. And if you are 1


### interested, if you haven't spoken and are 2


### interested in speaking, if you just want to sign 3


### up out in the registration desk then we'll create 4


### time for you this afternoon to speak. 5


### All right. With that we'll take a break. 6



### (Recess from 2 :35 p.m. until 2:54 p.m.) 7


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. We will get 8


### started again. Thank you for hanging in there 9


### with us. And so we are going to commence again 10


### with Angus Crane and Cynthia Adams. If they are 11



### here

-- okay. Is Cynthia Adams here

- – yes, no ? 12


### All right. And if you guys would just 13



### remember to please spell your name for the court 14



### reporter. 15



### MR. CRANE: Okay. 16



### MR. DEMOCKER: Go ahead. 17


### MR. CRANE: My name is Angus Crane. 18


### Angus is A

- n

- g

- u

- s and Crane is C

- r

- a

- n

- e. And 19



### I’m the Executive Vice

- Pr esident and General 20



### Counsel for the North American Insulation 21



### Manufacturers’ Association. 22223

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### We represent the manufacturers of 1


### fiberglass and insulation products. And we are 2



### here to urge the EPA

- – first we want to thank 3


### the EPA for the opportunity to pre sent this 4


### testimony. And we also want to thank EPA for 5


### already recognizing in the proposed rule the 6


### significant value and contribution that energy 7


### efficiency can make to reducing greenhouse gases. 8



### We would like to move

-- point out that 9



### insulation and th e installation of insulation in 10


### buildings has a significant benefit. 11


### First, 40 percent of greenhouse gases are 12


### associated with buildings or the building 13


### environment. Insulation is something that is 14


### very cost effective. It doesn’t cost a lot of 15



### money t o insulate. And once you have installed 16



### that insulation, it continues to insulate and 17


### save energy throughout the lifetime of that 18


### building, unlike say energy efficiency appliances 19


### or light bulbs or things of that nature. 20


### Those things are good and benef icial, but 21


### insulation is like no other energy efficiency 22224

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### measure because you don’t need to plug it in or 1


### charge it. It just sits there in the walls and 2


### the ceilings and in the attic and it saves 3



### energy. 4


### And in addition to that saving the 5



### energy, there are immediate corresponding 6


### reductions in pollutants. We have and we will be 7


### providing this to the EPA. We previously 8


### provided test results that increased insulation 9


### not only reduces pollutants but also improves 10


### public health, and we will be able to quan tify 11


### that. We are having Boston University update the 12


### studies that were done by Harvard ten years ago 13


### that will further substantiate not only energy 14


### savings and pollution reduction, but also public 15



### health benefits. 16


### There are a number of things that we 17



### would like to ask EPA to do. First and foremost 18


### is to recognize early action in implementing 19


### energy efficiency programs. We believe that 20


### there is a long limitation phase here. And that 21


### if you can provide recognition of early action, 22225

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### many of the utiliti es and many of the states 1


### would be able to begin very effective energy 2


### efficiency programs that would provide incentives 3


### and, you know, encourage the use of insulation or 4


### increasing the amount of insulation. So that is 5


### our first request is that you recogn ize early

– - 6


### or early action. 7


### The second is in providing any kind of 8


### incentive or any kind of inducement to increase 9


### insulation that you make the quantification and 10


### verification simple, streamlined and easy. 11


### And the most effective way of discouraging the 12


### use of energy efficiency, which again I emphasize 13



### is the most cost effective alternative that is 14


### out there, is to make it complicated. If you 15


### make it complicated and difficult, people will 16


### bypass that as an option. 17


### We point out and would ask the EPA to 18



### look at it and consider the fact that on a lot of 19


### the transportation measures, there is a great 20


### deal of leniency in verification. 21


### And NAIMA, our organization, will provide 22226

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### significant data to EPA that will show that 1


### through modeling data and things of that nature, 2


### that the energy savings can be substantiated and 3


### with existing data. 4


### The last request is that EPA recognizes 5


### that the most effective way of increasing 6


### building energy efficiency is through the 7


### improvement and adoption of energy codes and th e 8



### enforcement of energy codes. And so that’s our 9


### third request is that you use the building codes 10



### - – implementation of building codes, enforcement 11


### of building codes

-- as a key component of energy 12


### efficiency. 13


### And with that, I thank you for this 14



### opportu nity to present this testimony. 15


### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Cynthia Adams. 16


### MS. ADAMS: Cynthia Adams, C

- y

- n

- t

- h

- i

- a, 17



### A

- d

- a

- m

- s. 18


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify 19



### today on the EPA proposed rule on Carbon 20


### Pollution Emission Guidelines for Existing 21



### S tationary Sources. 22227

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### My name is Cynthia Adams, and I am 1


### the Chair of the Virginia Energy Efficiency 2


### Counsel. I’m an appointed member of Governor 3


### McAuliffe’s Virginia Energy Counsel and a board 4


### member of Efficiency First, whom I am here today 5



### to represent. 6


### Efficiency First is the national business 7


### association for home performance

- – with the home 8


### performance industry, whose members are home 9


### performance contractors and companies across the 10


### U.S. with state and local chapters also across 11



### the country. And we work with companies to 12


### retrofit America’s homes and bring them and our 13


### economy into the future. Together, we advocate 14


### for policies that accelerate the growth of the 15


### industry creating huge opportunities for 16


### companies and delivering meaningful value to 17



### hom eowners. 18


### First, we want to applaud the 19


### Administration for this important effort to 20


### regulate carbon emissions and for the recognition 21


### in the rule that energy efficiency should be a 22228

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### part of the answer to carbon reductions. We 1


### believe home performance mee ts the “Best System 2



### of Emission Reduction” or BSER test and is a 3


### crucial part of building block number four, 4


### energy efficiency in the proposed rule. In fact, 5


### with more than 113 million residences consuming 6


### 22 percent of all U.S. energy, this sector is 7



### cri tical and a part of any program that targets 8



### emission reductions. 9


### We are here today to offer suggestions 10


### for improvement to the draft regulations, and we 11


### will provide further details in our October 16 12



### comments. 13


### We urge EPA to consider allowing states 14



### to account for natural gas savings in energy 15


### efficiency programs. We urge EPA to recognize 16


### the unintended consequences that could be 17


### associated with fuel switching and the carbon 18



### that would not be captured and measured, as well 19



### as the inefficiencies in deliv ery of energy 20


### efficiency services that may come by excluding 21


### efficiency gains from gas and other heating fuels 22229

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### under the rule. 1


### For example in the residential sector, 2


### current home performance programs that aim to 3



### reduce the overall energy use of a home may 4


### instead be encouraged by the rule to switch from 5


### electric heating to natural gas heating, without 6


### ensuring that this effort is coupled with air 7


### ceiling or insulation. Unless the home is well 8


### insulated, the opportunity to achieve potential 9


### savings through the upgrade will be lost. 10



### Further, the carbon emitted from the 11


### natural gas heater will not be measured. We 12


### recommend that EPA offer states best practices 13


### for ensuring that energy savings is maximized in 14


### residential programs. And please know that not 15



### al l energy efficiency programs are created equal. 16



### Today, rate

- payer funded programs are 17


### usually required to pass a cost

- effectiveness 18



### test. These tests are based on five tests 19


### originally developed in the 1970s California 20


### standards practice manual. Despi te more recent 21


### updates, these tests are often implemented in 22230

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### ways that are biased against deeper energy 1


### efficiency investments because they account for 2


### all of the costs, but frequently they ignore many 3



### of the benefits. 4


### A new screening effort that Efficien cy 5


### First has participated in called the Resource 6


### Value Framework, or RVF, provides a powerful tool 7


### for public utility commissions to ensure that 8



### their cost

- effectiveness tests are balanced, 9


### transparent and account for public policy goals. 10



### We urge EPA to r ecommend the use of the 11



### RVF to states that wish to test the 111(d) 12


### compliance programs for cost effectiveness in 13


### order to encourage deeper energy savings 14


### opportunities. 15



### Home performance programs have many 16


### different designs as noted in the proposed rule; 17


### for example, each method of calculating savings 18



### deemed, modeled or measured. There are best 19


### practices that we also urge EPA to include in its 20


### guidance to states developing their 21


### implementation plans. 22231

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### We will provide further input in our 1



### comments, but as a preliminary statement we urge 2


### the EPA today to consider that there are new 3


### technologies

-- smart meters to measure energy 4


### efficiency as a resource, home energy management 5



### devices and others

-- emerging every day in the 6


### market place that can assist wit h program design 7



### and carbon measurement. 8


### These technologies are providing crucial 9



### communications between utilities and homeowners. 10


### Standards, protocols and platforms are just being 11



### developed. So we strongly recommend that EPA 12


### recognize this nascent revo lution and ensure that 13


### their regulation not close the door to new 14


### technologies and program designs that have 15


### encouraged this kind of innovation. 16


### As EPA develops its rules for evaluation, 17


### measurement and verification, we urge the 18


### consideration of energy consumption data as 19


### provided by utilities. This data, in the form of 20


### both traditional utility bills and more advanced 21


### technologies such as smart devices and home 22232

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### energy management systems, can provide valuable 1


### information about energy use and contribute t o 2


### accurate quantification of savings. 3


### This information should be recognized and 4


### considered for use in EMV protocols. However 5


### protocols and policies that allow for both data 6


### access and analysis may take time to develop. We 7


### encourage EPA to include the use of this data 8


### specifically in its EMV rules. 9


### Finally and importantly, we ask EPA to 10



### consider the non

- ratepayer funded solutions to 11


### energy savings in the private sector and 12


### encourage aggregation and the development of a 13


### registry to register and retire e missions that 14


### private contractors and companies can provide 15


### from electricity reduction outside of the utility 16



### programs. 17


### Thank you on behalf of Efficiency First 18


### for the opportunity to testify. While these are 19


### great gains to be made overall, please ensur e 20


### that continued attention is paid to the only 21


### element to the rule that directly includes both 22233

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### small businesses and average Americans and that 1


### is energy reductions in the residential sector. 2



### Thank you. 3


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you both 4



### very much. I appreciate your comments. 5



### Next up we have Larry Monroe and Anthony 6



### Vance. Larry Monroe and Anthony Vance. And 7



### Mr. Monroe first. 8



### MR. MONROE: I’m Larry Monroe, L

- a

- r

- r

- y, 9



### M

- o

- n

- r

- o

- e. 10



### Good afternoon. I am the Chief 11



### Environmental Officer and t he Senior Vice

12



### President of Research and Environmental Affairs 13



### at Southern Company. 14


### As the premier energy company serving the 15


### Southeastern United States, Southern Company is 16


### developing the full portfolio of energy 17



### resources, nuclear, 21 st 

### century coals, n atural 18


### gas, renewables and energy efficiency, all to 19


### continue providing our 4.4 million customers with 20


### clean, safe, reliable and affordable power. 21


### Southern Company subsidiaries include 22234

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### four vertically

- integrated electric utilities: 1


### Alabama Power, Georgia Power, Gulf Power and 2


### Mississippi Power, as well as Southern Power 3


### which owns generation assets and sells 4


### electricity to the wholesale market. 5


### EPA’s clean power plant proposal, while 6


### created in name, goes far beyond the authority 7


### provided to EPA under sec tion 111(d) of the Clean 8


### Air Act. By law, EPA is limited to developing 9


### emission guidelines for existing power plant 10



### sources that are based on the Best System of 11


### Emission Reduction that has been adequately 12



### demonstrated at effective sources. Thus, these 13



### gu idelines can only be based on technologies that 14


### can be and have been implemented at individual 15



### sources or inside the fence. 16


### EPA has clearly overstepped congressional 17


### intent by determining that the Best System of 18


### Emission Reduction for individual power p lant is 19


### the application of its so called four building 20


### blocks which encompass the entire electric system 21


### including customer demand. 22235

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### Using aggressive assumptions for each of 1


### its four blocks, EPA has created stringent state 2


### goals which effectively eliminate the flexibility 3


### granted to states under the Clean Air Act to 4


### create standards and compliance programs that 5



### protect our customers. 6


### EPA’s first building block incorrectly 7



### assumes that each coal

- fired unit can improve and 8


### continuously maintain its efficienc y by 9


### 6 percent. This assumption is absurd considering 10


### the fact we already operate our units as 11


### efficiently as possible in order to minimize 12



### costs for our customers. 13


### EPA’s second building block, the forced 14


### Redispatch of Natural Gas Combined Cycle 15



### Gener ation to an annual 70 percent capacity 16


### factor further errs in assuming this redispatch 17


### can be effortlessly and economically achieved. 18


### Even in 2012, with historically low natural gas 19


### prices, combined cycles did not operate at these 20



### levels. 21



### For example, t he State of Mississippi’s 22236

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### combined cycle fleet averaged only 53 percent 1


### capacity factor. Assuming these units will run 2


### at 70 percent, as EPA does, it would force 3


### uneconomic dispatch which only raises electricity 4


### prices in our struggling economy. 5



### EPA’s th ird building block assumes 6



### unrealistic and unachievable increases in 7


### renewable energy generation and penalizes states 8



### that have low

- and zero

- emitting generation 9


### projects under construction. 10


### EPA inappropriately applies regional 11



### average renewable energy targets without regard 12



### for state

- specific factors. For our southeastern 13


### states, the assumptions would increase renewable 14


### energy generation ranging from 262 percent to 15



### over 400 percent. 16


### Additionally, eight years ago a Southern 17


### Company subsidiary, Georgi a Power, and other 18


### Georgia utilities committed to be the nation’s 19


### first to construct new nuclear power units in 20


### almost 30 years. While utilities across the 21


### country will benefit from the path paved with 22237

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### Votgle 3 and 4, Southern Company took this step 1



### with specific goals in mind: that the project 2


### would further diversify our fleet and help 3


### prepare us and our customers for upcoming 4


### greenhouse gas requirements. Rather than reward 5


### the State of Georgia, EPA used the zero

- carbon 6


### energy source to further penalize the state for 7


### its early actions. 8


### Building block four wrongly assumes that 9


### selective and unsustained demand site energy 10


### efficiency results from only three states can be 11


### achieved continuously in every state in the 12


### nation. Demand site energy efficiency prog rams 13


### have historically been very difficult to 14


### implement, enforce, monitor and verify. Efforts 15



### to reach the assumed levels are sure to raise 16



### costs for our customers, almost half of which 17



### have household incomes of less than 40,000 a 18



### year. 19



### In conclusion, th rough this proposal EPA 20


### seeks to accomplish exactly what the recent UR 21


### versus EPA Supreme Court decision states that it 22238

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### cannot do; fundamentally redesign the nation’s 1


### electric system and require reductions in the 2



### economy’s demand for energy from the electr ic 3


### grid. 4



### Southern Company requests that EPA 5


### repropose guidelines that are consistent with the 6


### Clean Air Act and based on adequately 7



### demonstrated cost

- effective reductions that can 8


### be implemented at individual affected sources. 9



### Thank you. 10



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Mr. Vance. 11


### MR. VANCE: My name is Anthony Vance. 12



### That’s A

- n

- t

- h

- o

- n

- y, and Vance is V, as in 13



### Victor, a

- n

- c

- e. 14



### Good afternoon. I’m the director of the 15



### U.S. Bahai Office of Public Affairs. And thank 16


### you very much for the opportunity to s peak at 17


### this hearing. 18


### I’m pleased to join the more than two 19


### dozen representatives of faith communities and 20



### many others that have come here over these two 21


### days to speak in strong support of EPA’s efforts 22239

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### to set carbon pollution standards for existing 1



### power plants. 2


### The proposed standards when implemented 3


### promise to cut heat

- trapping carbon emissions 4



### from U.S. power plants by 30 percent by 2030. 5


### They are an essential step towards reducing 6


### pollution from our largest source of emissions. 7



### The standards will h elp to stimulate 8


### improved energy efficiency and growth in 9



### renewable energy and lead us toward a clean 10



### energy future. 11


### As you know too well, carbon pollution 12


### triggers asthma attacks and respiratory disease, 13


### worsens air quality and contributes to more 14



### freq uent, destructive, costly and deadly extreme 15



### weather events. And yet to date, carbon 16


### emissions have not been regulated. It’s time for 17



### a change. 18



### As a parent, I have personal reasons to 19



### support these standards. Several years ago my 20



### own daughter at the ag e of eight had her first 21


### asthma attack. It was of course frightening to 22240

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### see her struggle, unable to breathe. 1



### Fortunately, we were able to rush her to a nearby 2


### hospital where she was treated and released. But 3


### as any parent can tell you, that kind of 4



### expe rience makes a lasting impression. No one’s 5


### child should have to needlessly suffer or have 6


### her life endangered as a result of unrestrained 7


### carbon pollution. 8


### Now, while the technical aspects of 9


### reducing our emissions are manifold, there is 10



### deep moral

-- t here is a deep moral dimension to 11


### the issue that is understood and felt by 12



### individuals and institutions across the faith 13


### spectrum. Can we really continue to emit 14


### unlimited amounts of carbon into the atmosphere 15


### knowing the harmful impact it will have on 16



### cu rrent and future generations, as well as on all 17


### life on the planet? 18


### This question becomes even more poignant 19


### when we realize that those being impacted first 20


### and most severely have had little or nothing to 21


### do with creating the problem. 22241

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### We, in the Bahai community, are guided by 1


### a firm belief in the principle of the oneness of 2


### humankind. This spiritual principle has profound 3


### implications for policy at many levels. It 4


### guides us to seek solutions that are equitable 5


### and just, treating all people as members of one 6


### human family. 7


### I believe that EPA’s proposed carbon 8


### standards, if implemented, would be one way of 9


### honoring and reflecting an awareness of this 10


### central principle. 11


### The American Bahai community for the last 12


### several years has taken action to reduce its 13


### carbon emissions, both nationally and globally. 14


### We removed an old heating and air conditioning 15


### system and replaced it with a high

- efficiency 16


### system in our continental House of Worship in 17


### Wilmette, Illinois, where we are also building a 18



### LEED

- certified visitors center. 19



### Bahai’s in 114 local communities and 20


### 43 states were among these 1700 diverse faith 21


### organizations that took part in Interfaith Power 22242

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### and Lights national Preach

- in on climate change 1


### this last February. 2



### These efforts and others like them help 3



### to raise awareness of the climate issue and 4


### emphasize the important part that each of us can 5


### play in seeking solutions. But such actions 6


### alone will not be enough. We need strong 7


### national policies that will propel us towards a 8



### clean energy future. 9


### The EPA’s proposed carbon standards will 10


### help in this regard. As evidenced in the recent 11


### U.S. National Climate Assessment, the impacts of 12


### carbon pollution are already being felt across 13


### all regions and sectors of the U.S. economy, and 14


### the projected impac ts from doing nothing about 15



### our emissions are severe indeed. 16



### In truth, these carbon standards are long 17


### overdue and, particularly in the absence of a 18


### more comprehensive national climate policy, they 19


### are an essential step in the right direction. 20



### The appr oaching Climate Summit scheduled 21


### at the United Nations in September is seeking 22243

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### commitments by all nations to reduce their 1



### emissions. 2


### The climate challenge can only be solved 3


### through international cooperation and national 4


### leadership. The United States h as an important 5


### role to play in inspiring the world to take 6


### cooperative action. The Administration’s 7



### proposed carbon standards demonstrate a 8



### seriousness of intent in this direction. 9


### With many symptoms of a changing climate 10



### at our door and the many health impacts of carbon 11


### pollution quite evident, we must act with great 12



### conviction and hasten to reduce our emissions. 13


### I thank the EPA very much for its efforts 14


### to do just that through its proposed carbon 15


### pollution standards. 16



### Thank you very much. 17



### MR. DEMOC KER: All right. Thank you very 18



### much. 19


### MR. VANCE: All right. Thank you very 20



### much. 21



### MR. DEMOCKER: I’m sorry. We had the red 22244

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### light on the whole time for you. We forgot to 1



### restart the clock. 2


### Next up, we have Sarah Saylor and Liz Van 3



### Susteren. Liz o r Lise

- – Sarah Saylor and Liz 4



### Van Susteren. Come on up to the table. 5


### All right. We will start with Sarah 6



### Saylor. 7



### MS. SAYLOR: Hello. Thank you for the 8


### opportunity to share my testimony with you today 9



### for the Clean Power Plan. I am in favor of the 10


### plan. I’m here as a private citizen and my 11


### remarks express my own views. I work for a 12


### Federal Environmental Organization, but I’m here 13


### in my capacity as a private citizen. 14


### I attended the listening sessions that 15


### EPA held in November prior to making thi s rule 16


### making, and I did some listening of my own. 17


### Afterward, I wrote a blog post with 55 reasons 18


### EPA should move forward with the rule. Today to 19


### prove just how universal those reasons are, I 20


### share the first ten along with my rationale for 21


### supporting the m as well. 22245

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### EPA must protect our children and future 1


### generations. As a mother, I am responsible for 2



### the well

- being of my child. Her name is Agnes. 3


### I know her life will be worse by climate change 4


### if we do not do what is required to abate it. 5



### Instead o f discounting the lives of those who 6



### will come after us, we must let their future 7


### guide us. 8



### EPA must protect the hungry and the 9



### homeless. As a Christian, I must look out for 10


### those who are considered the least among us, 11


### those who are already disadvantaged and those who 12


### are most impacted by the climate change globally 13



### and here in the United States. 14



### EPA must make the U.S. a good global 15


### neighbor. As a former Girl Scout, I learned to 16


### leave my campsite better than I found it for the 17



### next group of scouts that came along. Being a 18


### good global neighbor is no different to me. 19



### EPA must save the honeybees. As someone 20


### who eats honey, I have a stake in protecting the 21


### bees that make it. They are already under 22246

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### assault on top of the impact that climate change 1



### is hav ing on them. 2


### EPA must protect plant life. As someone 3


### with a liberal arts degree in plant biology, I 4


### advocate for the ecosystems that support life as 5


### we know it, ecosystems put at risk by climate 6



### change and other pressures. 7



### EPA must relieve those with asthma and 8


### other lung diseases as we have heard from several 9


### parents today. Those will only become worse with 10


### rising temperatures. As a human being, I have a 11


### responsibility to look out for those most at risk 12


### from climate change as well as other pollutan ts: 13



### our children, our seniors, communities of color 14



### and those who are poor. 15



### EPA must make the moral and ethical 16


### choice. As someone who represents the public 17


### interest group, I know our nation relies upon the 18


### rule of law and the law requires action for a 19



### l ivable climate of breathable air, clean water 20



### and other basic human necessities entrusted to 21



### EPA. 22247

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### EPA must help us pay our debt to coal 1


### miners and coal mining communities. As a cancer 2


### survivor, I can appreciate the sacrifices these 3



### individuals have made for us all. What better 4


### tribute to them than to help them to transition 5


### into jobs where their lives and the lives of 6


### their families are no longer at risk. 7


### EPA must save mountain tops. As a 8


### singer, I often sing about the beauty and 9


### grandeur of mountains, of love that will last 10



### “until the mountains fall into the sea.” Never 11


### did I imagine that human beings and not the slow 12


### passage of time would be hastening their demise. 13


### Climate change is among the reasons we must 14



### arrest this and other forms of coal minin g. 15



### EPA must reduce coal

- related illnesses. 16



### As an environmentalist, I know that climate 17


### change itself is a coal

- related illness and 18



### fossil

- fuel and methane

- related illness. 19


### EPA must make deeper reductions in 20



### emissions and sooner. Do better than the 35 to 21


### 40 percent reduction in total U.S. emissions by 22248

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### 2020 to do what the science demands. 1


### We cannot delay our response to climate 2


### change and neither can we delay justice for those 3


### who live at the mercy of polluters of any kind. 4


### Like so many Americans, I believed that 5


### having laws like the Clean Air Act on the books 6


### were sufficient for providing a healthy 7


### environment. I no longer take it for granted. 8


### I urge EPA to do what many in our nation 9


### believe you already have done and to set the 10



### strongest carbon pollution standards possible for 11


### fossil fuel generated power plants, the strongest 12


### that the law will allow, and don’t stop there. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. 15



### MS. VAN SUSTEREN: Lise Van Susteren. 16


### I’m on the advisory board of the Ce nter of Health 17



### and Global Environment at the Harvard School of 18



### Public Health and a member of the board of the 19



### National Wildlife Federation. 20


### You have been listening for hours now 21


### about the impacts of global warming: the 22249

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### scorching heat, the biblical floods, the fires, 1


### the droughts, mass extinctions, acidifying oceans 2


### and rising sea levels. You have heard about the 3


### impacts of these dreadful conditions and extreme 4


### weather events will have on our physical health 5


### from direct effects and from the spread of 6



### disea se, and still you haven’t heard it all. 7


### I’m a doctor, a psychiatrist. What will 8


### the planetary conditions do to us 9


### psychologically? The impacts of climate change 10


### are a breeding ground for physcopathology. We 11


### are not potted plants out there getting drown ed, 12


### burned up, flooded and starved or watching it 13


### happen to others. We are being grievously 14


### damaged emotionally. 15



### Our mental health determines how we do 16


### our jobs, take care of our families, and function 17



### in our communities. This is the backbone of our 18



### nat ion. Already people at the center of extreme 19


### weather events suffer from depression, anxieties, 20


### phobias about storms and post

- traumatic stress 21


### disorder, deadening themselves sometimes with 22250

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### substance abuse and an additional toll on 1



### families and increase in domestic violence 2


### including child abuse. And in the grip of 3


### unrelenting thoughts about future disasters we 4


### are seeing the rise of the new and very painful 5


### condition, pre

- traumatic stress disorder and it 6


### is spreading. 7



### Whether we know it or not, whether we 8


### accept it or not, this is a nation already 9


### burdened by anxiety about climate change. And we 10


### will be in a growing state of fear. Diminished 11


### productivity, distrust of each other, simmering 12



### warfare between haves and have

- nots, callousness 13


### in our response t o suffering and alienated 14


### citizenry, these are the charges that will come 15



### and plague man. 16


### Every physical illness caused by climate 17



### change

-- you have heard the names

-- is 18


### accompanied by the pain of being sick. Though 19


### these psychological impacts aren’t c ounted 20


### either, when we tally up the damage brought by 21


### climate change, there they are. 22251

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### Studies show that polluted air forming 1


### more quickly at higher temperatures causes 2



### inflammation of brain tissue. Inflamed brain 3


### tissue is associated with higher rates of 4


### depression and dementia. Arising violence comes 5


### with every standard deviation in temperature

– - 6



### our assaults, murders and suicides. We are not 7


### seeing, we are not counting, and we are not 8


### prepared for what is being wrought. 9


### Climate change will reach e very corner 10


### and every sector of our lives, and everyone will 11


### throw off psychological challenges. Injury that 12


### could have been avoided is much harder to get 13


### over than harm that comes from something that 14


### happened as a true accident. 15


### How will future generati ons cope when 16


### they know we could have taken action but chose

- – 17



### chose what? 18


### The mental health community is not 19


### prepared to handle the large scaled psychological 20


### impacts of climate change. Where will be safe? 21


### How will we look in the eyes of the world? 22252

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### Jihadists are already using global 1


### warming as a rallying cry against us. As a 2


### former CIA profiler, I don’t have to imagine how 3


### quickly conditions can change. I fear gravely 4


### for our democratic way of life. In times of 5


### peril and scarcity, people turn to w hat they 6


### perceive as strong leaders to protect them. 7


### People are willing to give up their freedoms in 8


### exchange for perceived security. Heaven help us 9



### from the tyrants who may be unleashed upon us. 10



### Will we act in time? 11


### We implore you to consider the cost of 12


### inaction, to lead by example deep into this 11 th 13


### hour to work with all of the fiery passion the 14


### situation demands to get this Clean Power Plant 15


### passed with the greatest dispatch. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you both very much. 18



### Before you leave the table, I forgot to ask. For 19



### our court reporter, could you both spell your 20



### names. Thank you, sorry. 21


### MS. SAYLOR: Sarah with an H, Saylor, S 22253

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### like Sam, a

- y

- l

- o

- r

– - Saylor. Sarah also with 1



### an S

- a

- r

- a

- h, Sarah Saylor. 2


### MS. VAN SUSTEREN: This is going to be 3



### even harder. It’s Lise, L

- i

- s

- e, Van, V

- a

- n, 4



### Susteren, S

- u

- s

- t

- e

- r

- e

- n. 5



### THE REPORTER: And that’s two

– - 6



### MS. VAN SUSTEREN: Correct. Thank you. 7



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. 8


### MS. SAYLOR: Who is collecting written? 9



### MR. DEMOCKER: Yes, t hey are collecting 10


### written comments out at the desk. Thank you. 11


### All right. Next up we have Maylin 12



### Moench, M

- o

- e

- n

- c

- h is what I have on the card. 13



### And Jessica Eckdish, E

- c

- k

- d

- i

- s

- h. So hopefully 14


### you’ll correct those if we have them wrong. 15


### All rig ht. Maylin Moench, you’re up 16



### first. 17


### MR. MOENCH: My name is Maylin Moench and 18



### that’s spelled M

- a

- y

- l

- i

- n, M

- o

- e

- n

- c

- h. I have 19


### comments to deliver on behalf of Utah Physicians 20


### for a Healthy Environment on the EPA’s proposed 21



### Clean Power Program. 22254

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### Utah Ph ysicians for a Healthy Environment 1


### is a group of nearly three hundred professionals 2



### in medical and related sciences. I advise the 3


### group of matters of law and economics. 4


### Many of the illnesses that our physicians 5


### treat are either caused by or made worse by air 6


### pollution. We recognize that air pollution and 7


### climate change are intimately related. 8


### We therefore offer our expertise to 9


### inform the debate about how society should deal 10


### with these hazards to human health. Failing to 11


### halt the buildup of greenhou se gases means that 12


### we will eventually strip the rangelands of the 13


### Great Basin of much of their vegetation. This 14


### effect will be magnified if the Southern Nevada 15


### Water Authority proceeds with its plans to drain 16


### the aquifers of the already parched lands of 17



### central Nevada and western Utah to supply 18


### additional water to Las Vegas. 19


### If climate change is unabated and these 20


### aquifers are drained, winds generated by passing 21



### cold fronts could release millions of tons of 22255

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### unanchored desert soils to coat Utah’s heavily 1



### populated Wasatch Front. 2



### Great Basin soils are contaminated with 3


### unusually dangerous toxins. These include a 4



### fibrous material called erionite that is hundreds 5



### of times more toxic than asbestos, radioactive 6


### waste from decades of nuclear testing and mercur y 7


### from gold mining. 8


### Increased heat, drought and fire 9


### associated with climate warming is expected to 10


### remove much of the vegetation that now holds 11


### those soils in place. By mid

- century, increased 12


### exposure to ozone, smoke, dust and airborne 13



### toxins due to l ocal climate warming is expected 14


### to substantially increase

– - substantially 15


### increase rates of respiratory, cardiovascular 16


### disease, cancer, genetic damage and premature 17



### death. 18


### It is estimated that by mid

- century, 19


### 40 percent of Utahns will be too young, t oo old 20



### or too sick to withstand the effects of the 21


### increased air pollution to which they will be 22256

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### exposed. 1


### If the public health is to be protected, 2


### those who make energy policies must make 3


### decisions that fully reflect the risks of 4


### continuing to rely on car bon to meet our power 5



### needs. 6


### A recent Harvard study estimated that the 7


### social cause to burning coal in the United States 8



### each year at between one

- third and one

- half 9



### trillion dollars. If these costs were included 10


### in the price of coal, the price would do uble or 11


### triple. The price of coal

- generated electricity 12


### would increase from nine to 27 cents per kilowatt 13


### hour. Since the average price of electricity is 14


### about 11 cents per kilowatt hour, fully 15


### accounting for the cost of coal

- generated power 16



### would double or triple its price per kilowatt 17


### hour relative to the price of carbon

- free sources 18



### such as wind or solar. 19


### While the cost of carbon generated power 20


### is rising, the cost of distributed solar and wind 21


### power is falling so fast they will be about one

- 22257

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### third les s than the cost of carbon power by 2020. 1


### By then, economic storage technologies for 2


### distributed power are expected to be widely 3


### available. These two trends give distributed wind 4


### and solar competitive advantage over coal that 5


### will only grow thereafter. 6



### As the cost of centralized carbon

7


### generated power rises and the market for it 8



### contracts, utilities will have to raise rates to 9


### cover the fixed costs of obsolete plants. It was 10



### at the recent NARUC convention where state and 11


### public

- – I was at the recent NA RUC convention 12


### where state public service commissions were 13


### nearly in a panic contemplating the implications 14


### of this downward spiral. 15


### Our recent participation in state

- level 16



### electric

– - utility rate proceedings has made us 17


### realize that the industry will v igorously resist 18


### the EPA’s carbon reduction targets unless the 19


### incentive structure of the industry is reformed 20



### at the state level. 21


### For example, utilities will have to be 22258

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### allowed higher rates of return on their 1



### investments in distributed carbon

- free power than 2


### on their investments in black power. They might 3



### also need to be allowed to collect a bounty on 4


### each distributed green system that they connect 5


### to the grid, or to be allowed to keep a 6


### percentage of the savings for each kilowatt hour 7


### that is avoided by their end

- user efficiency 8



### programs. 9



### Such reforms to the current incentive 10



### structure are essential. If electric utilities 11


### are to be willingly

– - are to willingly 12


### participate in, rather than fight the EPA’s 13



### proposed Clean Power Program. 14



### We urge the EP A, the Department of Energy 15


### and FERC to jointly develop a model state of 16


### electric utility code that incorporates such 17


### incentives to spur the needed reforms. 18



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. 19


### Jessica Eckdish, if you could spell your 20



### name for the record. 21



### MS. ECKDISH: Sure. Hi, my name is 22259

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### Jessica, J

- e

- s

- s

- i

- c

- a, Eckdish, E

- c

- k

- d

- i

- s

- h. 1


### And I am speaking today as a representative of 2


### the Sierra Club as well as a private citizen. 3


### And I thank you for the opportunity to speak 4



### today and express support for the Cl ean Power 5



### Plan and to discuss what I consider to be the 6


### biggest challenge of our time, the urgent need 7


### for action on climate change. 8


### We are already seeing the impacts of 9


### climate change across the country and the world 10


### today. My home state of California h as entered 11


### its third year of drought. According to the 12


### National Climate Assessment, climate change poses 13



### challenges for an already parched Southwest that 14


### is expected to get hotter and drier. 15


### Increased warming and drought conditions 16



### also pose challenges for natural hazards like 17


### wild fire. California experienced the third

18


### largest fire in its history this past year, the 19


### Rim fire. I visited Lake Tahoe last August and 20


### drove up to Barker Pass to go hiking, but had to 21



### turn the car around because the air was s o smoky 22260

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### it was too hard to breathe. The visibility was 1


### so bad, in fact, you couldn’t see across the 2



### lake. 3


### The rapid spread of the Rim fire is 4


### attributed in part to the widespread heatwaves 5


### and drought conditions in the area. Numerous 6


### fire models project more wildfire as climate 7


### change continues. 8


### Sea level rise is also projected to 9


### increase as the planet continues to warm. In the 10


### last one hundred years, sea level has risen along 11


### the California coast by about six to eight 12



### inches. In the last decade, h igh tides on top of 13


### this sea level rise have damaged infrastructure 14


### like the inundation of Highway 101 near San 15


### Francisco where I grew up. 16


### As our waters warm and glaciers melt, 17


### scientists are now predicting that sea level rise 18



### could increase one to four f eet by 2100. Nearly 19


### five million people in the U.S. live within four 20


### feet of the local high tide level. 21



### **** Impacts like these and others are being 22261

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### seen across the country and around the world. 1


### The good news is that we know what to do. We 2



### know who and what is to blame for these changes. 3


### The latest report from the IPCC states with 4


### 95 percent certainty that humans are responsible 5


### for the warming of the last 50 years. And the 6


### strong consensus in the scientific community 7


### attributes a large part of this i mpact to power 8


### plants that dump greenhouse gases into the 9



### atmosphere every year

- – every day, excuse me. 10



### Fossil

- fuel power plants are the single 11


### largest source of climate pollution in the United 12



### States and currently do not have to meet any 13



### national carbon limits. They have been free to 14


### pollute our air and water, poison nearby 15


### communities and pose a catastrophic threat to our 16



### climate. 17



### Thankfully, the EPA has proposed the 18


### Clean Power Plan to curb this dangerous carbon 19


### pollution from existing power plants for the 20


### first time. By cleaning up these plants through 21


### this plan, we will begin to clean up our air, 22262

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### reduce pollution related illness and curb the 1


### worse effects of climate disruption. 2


### I thank the EPA for proposing this 3



### standard and want to acknowledg e an area where it 4



### can be strengthened. 5


### We can transition from dirty to clean 6


### energy much faster than predicted in this plan. 7


### We should work towards a larger emission 8


### reduction goal of 35 to 40 percent reductions 9



### below 2005 levels in 2020. 10



### Thank you for this opportunity to 11


### testify. I urge the EPA to swiftly finalize a 12


### strong and just standard for existing power 13



### plants that protects our health and our planet. 14



### Thank you. 15


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you both 16



### very much. 17



### Next up we have Barbara S chlachter and 18



### Rianna Eckel. 19


### Thank you. We will start with Barbara 20


### Schlachter. And if you could, spell your name 21



### for the court reporter. 22263

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### MS. SCHLACHTER: Yes. 1



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. 2



### MS. SCHLACHTER: B

- a

- r

- b

- a

- r

- a, 3



### S

- c

- h

- l

- a

- c

- h

- t

- e

- r. 4



### MR. DEMO CKER: All right. The floor is 5



### yours. 6



### MS. SCHLACHTER: I am the Reverend Dr. 7


### Barbara Schlachter, an Episcopal priest from 8



### Iowa. And I am pleased to be here to be able to 9


### speak in support of the Clean Power Plan. 10


### Iowa has experienced the effects of 11



### cl imate change dramatically in the last six years 12


### starting with the floods of 2008 and continuing 13


### with alternating drought and flood. This has 14


### wreaked havoc on agriculture in many parts of our 15


### state. When I left Iowa to come here to testify, 16



### we still had a reas of Iowa City inaccessible 17



### because of flood waters that peaked over a month 18



### ago. 19


### I speak as an Episcopal priest and also a 20



### founder of 100 Grannies for a Livable Future. We 21



### are a group of older women who are concerned 22264

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### about the kind of world our grand children, indeed 1


### everyone’s children and grandchildren, will live 2


### in. We are over one hundred strong. We refer to 3



### ourselves as “fossils for a fossil fuel free 4


### future.” And we have a funny picture of a group 5


### of us, like aging Rockettes, getting off of ou r 6


### rocking chairs and getting out and active about 7


### the issue of global warming. 8


### At our meeting this past week, we shared 9


### what places we loved that were already being 10


### impacted by climate change. I spoke about what 11


### is happening to my beloved beach on Lake E erie 12


### where my family has lived for over a hundred 13


### years. And yet my grandchildren may not be able 14


### to swim there because of algal bloom, runoff and 15


### erosion exacerbated by climate change. 16


### One woman spoke with visiting her 17


### children and grandchildren in Colo rado where the 18


### pine beetles have killed trees because it wasn’t 19


### cold enough to kill them, leaving the trees as 20


### tinder for forest fires and threatening her 21


### family. 22265

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### Another woman spoke of growing up in Iowa 1


### City and riding her bike in City Park. She is 2



### s till doing it, but the park is officially closed 3


### because of flooding. 4


### Also this past week, during the Johnson 5


### County Fair, many of the Grannies braved the heat 6


### and took a shift at a booth to talk to people 7


### about the reality and danger of the climate 8



### crisi s and what they can do as ordinary citizens. 9


### While we have pledged to live more simply with 10


### less impact on the earth, we know that it has to 11


### be a larger, corporate business and government 12



### solution. 13


### The Episcopal Church passed a resolution 14


### in 2009 urging President Obama and Congressional 15



### leaders to commit the U.S. to a course of action 16


### to lower the output of atmospheric carbon by 17



### 25 percent by 2020 and by 80 percent by 2050. 18


### This may be even more ambitious than the 19


### Clean Power Plan and may be in the ca mp of those 20



### who say that the plan doesn’t go far enough soon 21


### enough. Yet the Clean Power Plan is a first 22266

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### step, an extremely important one. 1



### As one of the Grannies who teaches 2


### biology at a nearby college reminded me, 3


### “regulation of air and water pollutio ns with the 4


### EPA is the only policy that has a successful 5


### track record.” Others at this hearing can speak 6


### from a scientific perspective on why it is 7


### necessary to reduce carbon emissions so that the 8


### earth’s temperature does not rise more than two 9



### degrees Ce lsius. 10


### I speak from a moral perspective that 11


### comes from being an Episcopal priest from the 12


### earliest days that women were ordained. I have 13


### been a student of scripture, history, human 14



### nature and above all person of prayer. Most 15



### recently I have become a student of climate 16


### justice. 17



### I have concluded that the climate crisis 18


### is the defining moral issue of our time and is 19


### the scientific reality that exacerbates all 20


### social and health problems and aggravates many of 21



### the conflict zones around the world. 22267

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### It’s th e poor that suffer the most. 1


### whether it’s poor nations or poor people. As a 2


### person of Biblical Faith, I believe we are 3



### entrusted with the care of the earth and are 4



### co

- creators for the ultimate source and destiny 5


### that many of us call God. How can we clai m the 6


### right to deny a stable climate, a life

- giving 7


### earth to future generations? 8



### Now that we know the consequences of our 9



### fossil

- fuel addiction and we know ways to 10


### ameliorate and change our energy sources, how can 11



### we refuse to do so? How can we deny th ose who 12



### come after, even if it is inconvenient and will 13


### have economically expensive in the short term? 14


### As a person of Biblical Faith, I believe 15


### not only in looking at tough reality and harder 16


### questions directly. I also believe there are 17



### reasons for hop e. We humans are ingenious. We 18



### have created the mess we are in, and we are 19


### resourceful. We can do amazing things when we 20


### have to like mobilize a country overnight to 21


### fight a world war. And deep down, we have caring 22268

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### hearts that, when given the choice be tween life 1



### and death for millions, we choose life. 2


### By adopting the Clean Power Plan, our 3


### nation is saying yes to life, yes to the care of 4



### creation, its creatures and all of the Earth’s 5



### people. 6



### Thank you. 7



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. 8



### Rianna E ckel. 9


### MS. ECKEL: My name is Rianna Eckel, 10



### that’s spelled R

- i

- a

- n

- n

- a. And the last name is 11



### E

- c

- k

- e

- l. 12


### So my name is Rianna Eckel and I am a 13


### rising senior at American University. And I’m 14



### here today to show my support for the EPA’s Clean 15



### Power Plan an d urge it to be finalized. 16



### I was born and raised outside of Boston, 17


### one of the cities that will be most impacted by 18


### climate change. 19


### Coastal regions around the world are 20


### vulnerable to sea level rise due to increasing 21



### ocean temperatures. Yet the seas al ong the east 22269

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### coast of the United States from North Carolina 1


### through New England are rising three to four 2


### times higher than the global average. 3


### The place where I was raised and where my 4


### curiosity and passion for the environment was 5



### cultivated, is under thr eat as sea level rise 6


### could encroach upon the city within my lifetime. 7


### In Washington, D.C., where I have spent 8


### the last three years, the impacts of climate 9


### change will also be felt. The Chesapeake Bay 10


### will rise, impacting the water levels of the 11


### tidal po rtions of the Potomac and Anacostia 12


### rivers and the communities along their banks. 13


### There will be more extreme precipitation 14


### events overflowing D.C.’s combined sewage and 15


### storm water treatment facilities, causing raw 16


### sewage to further contaminate the city ’s 17



### waterways. 18



### The health of D.C. residents is also at 19


### stake. D.C. is already in the top ten worst 20


### cities of the United States for ozone pollution, 21


### worsening breathing problems and causing the bad 22270

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### air quality warning messages I receive regularly 1



### on hot su mmer days. 2


### Ozone pollution will only increase with 3


### warmer temperatures and will pose an enormous 4



### threat to the health of D.C. residents. 5


### Something that makes me incredibly happy 6


### to live here is that this is the most active city 7



### in the United States. R esidents, including 8


### myself, enjoy spending time running, walking and 9


### biking. But ozone pollution as an impact of 10


### climate change could make these seemingly healthy 11



### activities harmful to our bodies. 12



### I believe that the time has come to act 13


### on climate change . We, as Americans, can do 14


### better. We know the threats of climate change 15



### are real. We have seen them in extreme weather 16


### events like Superstorm Sandy, in wildfires raging 17


### across the west coast and the droughts in 18



### California. 19



### If we do not act now to comb at climate 20


### change, it will continue to permeate our lives 21


### both in big ways like changing the American 22271

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### coastline, and in small ways like threatening the 1


### availability of coffee or avocados. 2


### These impacts will continue to grow in 3


### magnitude. As I’m sure yo u know, there is a 40

- 4


### year delay in the impacts of carbon emissions. 5


### This means that we are seeing the impacts of 6


### greenhouse gas emissions that were emitted in the 7


### 1970s. And since then, global carbon dioxide 8


### emissions have nearly doubled. By the time w e 9


### see the impacts of carbon emitted in my lifetime, 10


### it’s likely that extreme weather events will be a 11


### common place occurrence and that wars will be 12



### fought over water unless we act now. 13


### The Clean Power Plan is an opportunity 14



### for America to be a leader in t he fight against 15


### climate change, and the EPA’s proposed limit on 16


### carbon emissions from existing power plants is a 17


### huge step in the right direction and needs to be 18



### finalized now. 19



### Thank you. 20


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you both 21



### very much. 22272

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### All rig ht. We have a solo act coming up, 1


### Mark Kluto (phonetic). 2


### MR. KLUTO: I have decided to make my 3


### comments in Pittsburgh. 4


### MR. DEMOCKER: Okay. All right. 5



### In that case we will call Lia Kurihara 6



### and Susan Guy. 7


### All right. If you could

- – we will start 8


### with Lia Kurihara, and if you could spell your 9



### name. 10



### MS. KURIHARA: Sure. 11



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thanks. 12



### MS. KURIHARA: It’s L

- i

- a for the first 13



### name, and then K

- u

- r

- i

- h

- a

- r

- a. 14


### Hi, my name is Lia Kurihara, and I am a 15


### Global Warming Program intern at Enviro nment 16


### America and also a rising junior at McGill 17


### University. I am here today because I want the 18


### EPA to know why the Clean Power Plan is so 19


### important to myself, my family and my generation. 20


### When I was eight years old, Hurricane 21


### Isabel ripped branches from trees in my 22273

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### neighborhood and drowned my house with rain. 1


### That was eleven years ago, and I still remember 2


### being scared. So I can’t even imagine what the 3


### people feel who went through Katrina and Sandy. 4


### Nature is more powerful than us, and we 5



### don’t get to see that from day to day. When it 6



### overtakes our infrastructure and our lives, it’s 7


### overwhelming and provides us a reminder that we 8


### can’t mess with the environment. Being out of 9


### control and at the will of weather systems 10


### doesn’t leave us with a bright fu ture. 11


### The EPA should finalize its proposed 12



### Clean Power Plan. We have knowledge that past 13


### generations didn’t have. We have support that 14


### past generations didn’t have and future 15


### generations I can guarantee will be more united 16



### in this cause. 17



### We can’t le t the politics that dirty 18


### polluters and climate deniers play, get in the 19


### way of trying to save this planet. We need this 20


### proposed plan to become a reality so that we can 21



### become a part of the ecosystem rather than an 22274

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### intruder. 1



### Besides reductions in carb on pollution, 2


### the Clean Power Plan will also promote 3


### investments in efficiency and renewable energy 4


### sources like wind and solar, creating the jobs of 5


### the future and building an energy infrastructure 6



### that’s safer and healthier. 7


### Yes, the coal industry pro vides many 8


### jobs, but those jobs aren’t sustainable. I can 9


### attest to this that people my age don’t want to 10


### enter a dying industry. People my age want to be 11


### working in the next big thing. I expect the 12


### green industry to expand even more by the time my 13



### clas s is starting their career path. 14


### Growing up in Maryland, I would go almost 15


### every summer to my grandpa’s bay house right on 16


### the Chesapeake Bay in southern Maryland. We 17


### would go crabbing and fishing every time I 18


### visited. Unfortunately, the bay area is 19



### t hreatened by flooding and inundation from 20


### climate change. The crabs and fish that I used 21


### to enjoy catching and feasting on won’t be able 22275

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### to live in the saltier and warmer water unless we 1


### do something. 2


### I don’t want my childhood haven to become 3



### a swampy me ss. I don’t want my favorite Maryland 4


### Blue crabs to disappear. The Clean Power Plan 5


### needs to be finalized, not only for my children 6


### but for my generation. 7


### The effects of climate change have 8



### already started, and I’m not even 20 years old 9



### yet. My gener ation was given this world, this 10


### problem. And while we didn’t make the decisions 11


### that got us here, it will be up to us to get us 12



### out. 13


### Help my generation and my kids’ 14


### generation clean this mess up now. Finalize the 15



### Clean Power Plan. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MR. DE MOCKER: Thank you very much. 18



### Susan Guy. 19


### MS. GUY: My name is Susan Guy. The 20



### first name is S

- u

- s

- a

- n, the last name is G

- u

- y. 21


### My name is Susan Guy, and I am here today 22276

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### as an ordained clergywoman in the Christian 1


### Church, Disciples of Christ, and as th e Executive 2


### Director of Iowa Interfaith Power and Light with 3



### nearly 2,000 supporters around the state of Iowa 4


### to speak in support of the Clean Power Plan. 5


### When I was ordained 21 years ago, I never 6


### anticipated a moment when I would testify in 7



### front of th e EPA. In fact, climate change was 8


### not an issue that was even remotely on my mind. 9


### Throughout my years of ministry in local churches 10


### and as an organizer, there was one key issue that 11


### occupied my heart and mind, and which led me to 12


### specific acts of charit y and justice, and that 13


### issue was hunger. 14


### I encourage the congregations that I 15


### served to engage in local hunger ministries, such 16


### as support for food pantries and feeding 17


### programs. I encouraged participation in 18


### community gardens. I encouraged support fo r 19


### global relief efforts to alleviate hunger and 20



### poverty. I advocated for federal budget dollars 21



### to be directed to anti

- poverty and hunger 22277

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### efforts, both domestically and globally. 1


### And then I learned about climate change. 2


### I remember reading an article o n the Geo

- Politics 3



### of Food that connected the dots for me between 4


### the loss of crops due to heat waves and wild 5


### fires caused by drought and rising temperatures, 6


### the resulting food shortages in the Middle East 7


### and the rise of conflict in that region. The 8



### re alization that hit me was that if I care about 9


### hunger, I need to care about climate change. 10


### Climate change is a threat multiplier for 11


### so many issues about which people of faith care 12



### deeply: not only hunger, but clean water, 13


### refugees and immigrants, pover ty, disaster relief 14


### efforts and issues of war and peace. 15



### It’s also an issue that 16


### disproportionately impacts the most vulnerable 17


### among us: the poor, the sick, the disenfranchised 18


### and even our children and future generations, 19


### those whom Jesus implored his followers to care 20


### for. It is a matter of justice when those who 21



### hold power trample on the needs of the powerless. 22278

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### The prophet Micah asks the question: 1


### “What does the Lord require of you? To do 2


### justice and love kindness and walk humbly with 3



### your God.” Doing justice, loving kindness and 4


### walking humbly with God can take many forms, even 5


### the form of standards to limit carbon pollution 6



### from power plants. 7



### It Iowans that I represent here today, 8


### people of faith from diverse religious 9



### traditions, share at le ast three things in 10


### common: a calling to care for creation, a calling 11


### to care for our neighbors both locally and 12


### globally, and an abiding hope that by acting 13


### together, we can find solutions to climate 14



### change. 15



### We have seen first

- hand how innovation 16



### and r enewable energy can be a benefit to the 17


### economy of our state and for jobs, all while 18


### keeping our energy costs low. Iowa now gets 19


### nearly 30 percent of our electric generation from 20


### wind energy, the highest percentage of any state 21



### in the nation. 22279

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### At the sa me time, there are three to four 1


### thousand direct and indirect jobs that have been 2


### created because of the wind industry in Iowa. By 3


### creating a clear path to reducing carbon 4


### pollution in the United States, the Clean Power 5


### Plan will encourage innovation and renewable 6


### energy and energy efficiency, spurring further 7


### growth in clean energy while reducing consumer’s 8



### electric bills. 9



### It is also, and I believe most 10


### importantly, a critical step in working towards 11


### global solutions to climate change since carbon 12



### poll ution from power plants accounts for almost 13


### 40 percent of the U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. 14



### We are not powerless. We are powerful 15


### beyond our wildest imaginings. Let’s use that 16



### power for good. 17


### I urge you to move forward with the 18


### strongest possible carbon pollution standards in 19


### the Clean Power Plan. Do it for the poor, the 20



### sick, the disenfranchised. Do it for our 21


### children and future generations. 22280

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### Thank you for having this hearing and 1


### thank you for the opportunity to speak today. 2



### MR. DEMOCKER: T hank you both very much. 3



### Okay. Next up we have Isabella Levy and 4


### Karissa Gerne, if I pronounced that right. Let’s 5


### start with Isabella Levy. And if you could, 6



### spell your name that would be great. Thanks. 7



### MS. LEVY: It’s Isabella, I

- s

- a

- b

- e

- l

- l

- a 8



### Lev y, L

- e

- v as in Victor

- y. 9


### Good afternoon. My name is Isabella 10


### Levy, and I’m an intern with the Sierra Club in 11


### D.C. but today I’m here as a native of 12


### Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and a rising Junior 13


### at Brown University. 14



### I’m here today to thank the EPA fo r its 15


### landmark proposal to set limits on carbon 16


### pollution from existing power plants. This is a 17



### much

- needed step towards addressing climate 18


### change and a significant opportunity for the 19


### United States to honor its history as a leader in 20


### tackling the most di fficult environmental 21


### challenges in innovative and effective ways. 22281

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### However, I am worried. The Clean Power 1


### Plan shows tremendous promise as a flexible and 2



### state

- oriented means of reducing carbon. But in 3


### its current state, it’s not enough. We should be 4



### s triving to make our goals as strong as possible 5


### and to meet them as quickly as possible. That 6


### means aiming for a 35 to 40 percent carbon 7


### reduction below 2005 levels and doing that by 8



### 2020. 9



### Over the course of today and yesterday, 10



### you have heard from moms, kids and young adults 11


### talking about the impacts of climate change on 12


### the world that future generations will know. I 13



### echo all of these fears because they are true. 14


### If we don’t act quickly or effectively enough 15


### today to curb carbon pollution, in my lifeti me I 16


### will see the catastrophic impacts of unchecked 17


### climate disruption. 18


### Today, though, I would like to talk 19


### instead about my beloved hometown of Philadelphia 20



### and my adopted state of Rhode Island, both of 21


### which are already feeling the sometimes deadly 22282

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### impa cts of climate disruption. 1


### In Philadelphia, this is felt most 2


### significantly in our ever longer and more 3


### frequent heat waves in the summer and contributes 4


### to the region’s poor air quality. In the summer 5


### of 2012, at least nine Philadelphians died of 6



### heat

- r elated causes, and five of those deaths 7


### occurred during a single 12

- day stretch that tied 8


### for the fourth longest heat wave the city has 9



### ever seen. 10


### Philadelphia is also listed by the EPA as 11


### a nonattainment area for ground

- level ozone or 12


### smog, which is form ed when pollutants like 13


### nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide are exposed to 14


### heat and sunlight and is a known cause of the 15


### asthma that affects 10.5 percent of the city’s 16


### children according to the American Lung 17


### Association’s 2014 “State of the Air Report,” not 18


### to mention as many as 27.5 percent of 19


### Philadelphia children in low

- income communities 20


### according to the Merck Childhood Asthma Network. 21



### As heatwaves become longer, hotter and more 22283

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### frequent, we can expect to see more smog and more 1



### asthma. 2



### In Rhode Island, the effects of climate 3


### disruption may be more immediately tangible. The 4


### state was spared from the worst impacts of 5


### Superstorm Sandy but was still immobilized as 6


### storm surges buffeted coastal communities and 7



### left nearly a quarter of households across the 8



### s tate without power. 9


### The ocean state is also uniquely 10



### vulnerable to the effects of sea level rise. As 11



### Senator Sheldon Whitehouse often notes, the sea 12


### level recorded at the Newport Tide Gauge has 13


### risen since 1930 by nearly ten inches. This rise 14



### has acce lerated the pace of erosion along the 15



### state’s four hundred

– - 400 miles of coastline, 16


### which threatens to displace homes, businesses and 17



### beaches and increases their risk of serious 18


### damage with every storm. 19


### I am grateful, though, that both the City 20



### of Phila delphia and the State of Rhode Island 21


### recognize the toll that climate change is taking 22284

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### on their citizens, economies and environments, 1



### and that both have taken action to minimize their 2


### contribution to climate change. As part of its 3



### Greenworks Sustainabilit y Plan, Philadelphia has 4


### made major investments in energy efficiency for 5


### municipal buildings and has helped to retrofit 6


### nearly 12,000 homes since 2009, saving over 7


### $155,000 per year in energy costs. 8


### The City has also created a number of 9


### zoning policies an d financing pathways that make 10



### small

- scale solar energy generation easy and 11


### relatively affordable and is on track to be 12


### powered by 20 percent renewable energy in the 13



### next few years. 14



### Rhode Island has worked to increase the 15


### energy efficiency as a member of the Regional 16


### Greenhouse Gas Initiative and through innovative 17


### distributive generation legislation that allows 18


### renewable energy projects to sell power back to 19


### the national grid. This program has made it 20


### possible for independent businesses and home 21



### owners to move forward with large

- and small

- 22285

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### scale generation of renewable energy. 1


### I hope that as EPA works to finalize the 2



### content of the Clean Power Plan, it looks to 3


### communities like the ones I call my own, both to 4


### understand the urgent need for strong and ju st 5


### carbon regulations and to gain inspiration. 6


### This is a great opportunity for the EPA 7


### to help our country lead the fight against 8


### climate change and to do it without dirty energy 9


### like natural gas and nuclear. 10


### By following the lead of cities and 11



### states across our country and turning to energy 12


### efficiency and clean renewable energy, the Clean 13


### Power Plan will create jobs, spur innovation 14


### empower communities and get us back on track as 15



### an environmental leader. 16



### Thank you for your concern and for 17


### allowing m e to testify today. 18



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. 19



### Karissa Gerhke. 20


### MS. GERHKE: Yeah. My name is Karissa 21



### Gerhke, that’s K

- a

- r

- i

- s

- s

- a, G

- e

- r

- h

- k

- e. 22286

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### So thank you so much for allowing me to 1


### speak today. Again, my name is Karissa Gerhke, 2



### and I am t he National Director of the Sierra 3


### Student Coalition, so the youth arm of the 4


### largest and oldest environmental organization in 5


### the country of the Sierra Club. 6


### I am speaking today to help give a voice 7



### to our over 15,000 members and supporters across 8



### the co untry in support of the EPA’s Clean Power 9



### Plan. Many of our members have to face the 10


### innumerable injustices of environmental pollution 11


### every day from hydraulic fracturing in the hills 12


### of Pennsylvania, to gas refineries in the lower 13


### Rio Grande Valley of Te xas, to mountaintop mining 14


### in Eastern Kentucky. 15


### Climate change is very real for many of 16


### our members, and it is happening whether we want 17


### it to or not. More personally, I went to college 18


### to become a scientist. I was committed to using 19



### research to further our society. But when some 20


### of the first dire IPCC reports came out in 2008 21


### and 2009, I felt betrayed. I saw scientist after 22287

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### scientist being questioned and ridiculed for 1


### their findings, a failed Federal Climate Bill and 2


### International Agreement and Copenh agen later, and 3



### I came to the stark realization that all of the 4


### good science in the world wasn’t going to solve 5


### climate change. We instead needed people 6


### dedicated to pushing for systemic change, and 7


### thus I became an organizer. 8


### Five years later, we have f inally made 9


### some major headway. The EPA’s Clean Power Plan 10


### gives me hope that my hometown of Palm Bay, 11


### Florida, won’t be engulfed by rising sea levels 12


### or flattened by increasingly strong hurricanes. 13


### It gives me hope that one day I can take my 14


### grandchildr en to visit where I grew up and to 15


### play with them along the shore just like my 16


### parents did. 17


### Right now, we limit mercury, arsenic, 18



### lead, soot and other dangerous pollutants from 19


### power plants, but not carbon pollution, the key 20


### driver of climate disruption. This is 21



### unacceptable and has gone on for decades too 22288

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### long. The Clean Power Plan will close that loop 1


### hole and limit carbon pollution for the first 2


### time. This is historic. And youth like myself 3


### and many in this room have been waiting for a 4


### long time for this moment. 5


### The Clean Power Plan is a good first step 6


### in taking action on climate change, but it is by 7


### no means the end goal or the high

- water mark. We 8


### need to build upon this plan and utilize it to 9



### create a clean energy future where young people 10



### are w orking towards a just and clean energy 11



### economy. 12


### These are the sorts of things that the 13


### youth I work with at the SSC get excited about, 14


### not about continuing with dirty energy sources 15



### that pollute our homes and oppress our 16



### communities. 17



### Thank you for allo wing me to take the 18


### time to speak today, and I hope that you take all 19


### of these comments into mind as you develop your 20



### plans. Thank you 21



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. 22289

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### Barbara Gottlieb and Gerard Neely. If we 1



### could start with Barbara Gottlieb; an d if you 2



### could, spell your name for the court reporter. 3



### Thanks. 4



### MS. GOTTLIEB: Sure. Good afternoon. 5



### I’m Barbara Gottlieb. It’s B

- a

- r

- b

- a

- r

- a, 6



### G

- o

- t

- t

- l

- i

- e

- b. 7



### I am the Director of Environment and 8


### Health at an organization called Physicians for 9



### So cial Responsibility. We are a national 10


### organization of health professionals addressing 11


### the greatest threats to health and survival. 12


### Climate change is one of those greatest 13


### threats. That’s why Physicians for Social 14


### Responsibility applauds the EPA for int roducing 15


### this necessary and important rule. We are proud 16


### to support the rule as a welcomed first step 17


### towards slashing our emissions of carbon 18



### nationwide. 19


### Greatly reducing carbon pollution as 20


### quickly as we prove that we can is the most 21


### important step ou r society can take to address 22290

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### climate change. As PSR knows, that is necessary 1



### to protect human health. 2


### Many of us don’t think of climate change 3


### as essentially an environmental issue. PSR works 4


### to help people understand that climate change and 5



### the extr eme weather it brings imposes multiple 6



### and dangerous health effects. 7


### I will briefly tick off just a few. As 8


### we know, and as we’ve heard from prior speakers, 9



### as heat increases we see more ozone formation 10


### which can trigger an increase in asthma attacks, 11


### aggravate other chronic lung diseases and 12



### aggravate pre

- existing heart conditions such as 13


### angina. 14



### Heat waves also increase the risk of heat 15


### stroke, especially for the elderly or for people 16


### living in heat islands, and heat stroke can be 17



### fatal. 18


### Higher te mperatures also serve to expand 19


### the range of disease carrying insects. For those 20



### of us in the United States, that means that new 21


### populations are being exposed to diseases like 22291

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### West Nile virus, Lyme disease, Rocky Mountain 1


### spotted fever. Higher temperatur es also mean 2


### that mosquitos reproduce more rapidly and bite 3


### more frequently, and if you live around here, you 4



### don’t doubt that. 5


### Climate change makes heavy, intense 6


### downpours and flooding common. That has the 7


### effect of rural areas as having flooding and 8



### r unoff pickup animal wastes, pesticides and 9


### fertilizers. In cities, pollutants are from 10


### chemical pollutants, and they also overwhelm 11


### sewage systems causing untreated sewage to flow 12


### into drinking water and recreational waters. 13



### This can contaminate water wi th bacteria, 14


### viruses, and protozoa that can trigger

-- can and 15


### do trigger outbreaks of diarrheal diseases such 16


### as legionella, campylobacter and cholera. 17


### Wildfires: Besides burning to death, 18


### wildfires also greatly increase our exposure to 19


### particulate matt er that worsens respiratory 20


### conditions such as allergies, asthma and chronic 21


### obstructive pulmonary disease. Particulate 22292

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### matter also increases heart attacks and lung 1



### cancer. 2


### Climate change is also affecting our food 3



### supply. And as we heard from the pas tor from 4


### Iowa just a few moments ago, if you care about 5


### hunger then we need to care about climate change. 6


### Estimates vary, but for every 1.8 degrees 7


### Fahrenheit increase in global average surface 8



### temperatures, we can expect about a 10 percent 9


### decline in yie lds of the world’s major grain 10


### crops: corn, soy bean, rice and wheat. 11


### One thing climate change also contributes 12


### to displacement, stress, psychological effects, 13


### conflict and war. The war in Syria has been 14


### linked to that year’s

- – that country’s years of 15


### drought, and conflict and violence may increase 16


### in many places as both food and water supplies 17



### constrict. 18



### So these are some of the reasons that the 19


### physicians, nurses, public health professionals, 20


### other health workers in Physicians for Social 21


### Responsibili ty recognize this rule as urgent and 22293

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### necessary. At the same time, our organization 1



### wants to underscore that the rule is not 2


### sufficient. We strongly recommend the following: 3


### First of all, we urge you to call for a 4


### greater reliance on energy efficiency an d 5



### renewable energy. These should be the preferred 6


### solutions as states are encouraged to pursue in 7


### meeting the carbon reduction targets. 8



### Second, remove nuclear power from the 9


### list of options. Nuclear power is not renewable. 10


### It produces carcinogenic wast es that can be 11


### spilled or released into the environment as we 12


### witnessed at Fukushima and at Chernobyl and at 13



### Three Mile Island. And those wastes remain 14


### lethal to human beings essentially forever. 15



### Don’t encourage natural gas as an 16



### alternative to coal. S cientists have documented 17


### recently that natural gas extractions, 18


### specifically extraction using hydraulic 19


### fracturing, allows far more methane to escape 20


### into the atmosphere than what was previously 21


### thought. Methane is much more potent as a 22294

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### greenhouse gas th an is carbon dioxide. 1


### Over a 100 year time frame, I believe 2



### this is EPA’s number, that methane is 34 times 3


### more potent than carbon dioxide, but over a 20

- 4


### year time frame and that’s the time frame that 5


### really matters because climate change is 6


### advancing s o rapidly. 7



### The IPCC tells us that methane is 86 8


### times more potent. That’s devastating. It means 9


### that natural gas is terribly damaging to the 10


### climate and should not be pursued. 11


### Finally, and I know you get a lot of 12


### pushback from this one, but we at PSR c all on you 13


### to increase the target levels for CO2 reductions 14



### by the states. If we are to keep our planet at a 15


### cool, healthy temperature, protect our families, 16


### sustain food production and water supplies, and 17


### fend off the increasing risk of disease, much 18



### gre ater CO2 reductions are needed. 19


### So Physicians for Social Responsibility 20


### calls on you to finalize a strong and robust rule 21



### that really does protect human health as well as 22295

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### the environment. 1



### Thank you very much. 2



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. Gerard Neely. 3


### MR. NEELY: Hi, my name is Gerard, 4



### G

- e

- r

- a

- r

- d, Neely, N

- e

- e

- l

- y. 5


### Hello and good afternoon. Like I just 6


### said, my name is Gerard Neely. I’m an intern 7


### here at Physicians for Social Responsibility and 8



### an M.A. candidate in International and Political 9



### Econo my at King’s College, London. 10


### For many members of the millennial 11


### generation, the current political landscape has 12


### discouraged us from becoming involved in 13


### political debate. From healthcare to 14


### unemployment and everything in between, there 15



### seems to be a lac k of appetite from our elders to 16


### solve some of our nation’s largest problems. 17



### However, few issues are more

– - are not 18


### more contentious than climate change right now. 19


### However, the Clean Power Plan that is proposed by 20


### EPA is a down payment in ensuring that as a 21


### nation we begin to seriously face the challenges 22296

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### accompanying climate change. 1


### Ladies and gentleman of the EPA, as a 2



### millennial and as a concerned citizen of our 3


### country, we need leadership and policies that 4


### will bring 21 st 

### century solutions to 21 st 

### century 5


### problems such as climate change. This is why I 6


### am here speaking in favor of the proposed Clean 7



### Power Plan. 8


### As with many of my peers born in the 9



### 1980s and 1990s, almost every year of our 10


### existence seems to be named the warmest year on 11



### record. In addition to a warming planet, many 12


### growing up in the 1990s and 2000s have seen an 13


### increasing occurrence of extreme weather events. 14


### Whether it is flooding from Superstorm Sandy in 15



### the mid

- atlantic and northeast, extreme drought 16



### in the western states such as California, or sea 17


### level rise threatening coastal treasures and 18



### vacation favorites like Miami and Fort 19



### Lauderdale, these events have caught the 20


### attentions of millennials in the country and 21



### across the world. 22297

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### While many of our parents and elected 1



### officials cast effects from climate change as a 2


### far off hypothetical event, these events that I 3


### just mentioned are clearly from the effects of 4


### climate change. 5


### In Washington, D.C., we love to say the 6


### phrase, “doing this for our children and 7


### grandchildren.” However , if people are really 8


### serious about that phrase, then they need to 9


### support combating climate change. 10


### In my opinion, the Clean Power Plan 11


### proposal is a step in the right direction to 12


### ensuring the United States gets serious about 13


### combating climate change . Additionally, this 14


### proposal will showcase to our allies and 15


### developing nations across the world the 16


### importance of taking steps to mitigate risks 17


### associated with climate change. 18


### I support the Clean Power Plan because it 19


### allows states and energy industry stakeholders to 20


### reduce carbon emissions in an economically 21


### efficient manner. In addition, this proposal 22298

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### will encourage the development of renewable 1


### sources of energy which will play a vital role in 2


### our country’s future energy mix. 3



### Also, the developmen t of renewable 4


### energies will create sustainable and well

- paying 5


### jobs that will be vital to securing our nation’s 6



### future. 7



### I also support the Clean Power Plan 8


### proposal due to the potential to protect and 9


### improve public health. According to EPA 10



### estimates, the plan will have health benefits 11


### ranging from 55 billion to 93 billion dollars by 12


### 2030. Additionally, unless we act to mitigate 13


### the impacts of climate change, we will risk the 14



### likelihood that our fellow Americans will be 15


### exposed to bacteria borne diseas es, heat

- related 16



### illnesses from extreme heat waves, exacerbation 17


### of respiratory ailments such as asthma, along 18


### with an array of serious and life

- threatening 19



### medical conditions. 20



### If our elders, our parents and elected 21


### officials are serious about leaving a h ealthy and 22299

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### prosperous nation to their children and 1


### grandchildren, then they must support the EPA’s 2



### proposed clean power plan. 3



### Thank you, and thank you to your 4


### dedication to protecting our environment. 5


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you both 6



### very much

. 7


### All right, we will keep rolling. Next 8



### up, Adam Carpenter and Doug O’Malley. 9


### All right. Adam Carpenter first. And if 10



### you could, spell your name for the court 11



### reporter. Thanks. 12



### MR. CARPENTER: Thank you. It’s Adam 13



### Carpenter, A

- d

- a

- m, C

- a

- r

- p

- e

- n

- t

- e

- r. 14



### I would like to thank the EPA for the 15


### opportunity to give this presentation at today’s 16


### hearing on the Clean Power Plan. My name is Adam 17


### Carpenter, and I am with the American Water Works 18



### Association. 19



### For those unfamiliar with the AWWA, we 20



### are a membership association of approximately 21


### 50,000 members, representing the whole range of 22300

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### the water sector including about 3,900 water 1


### utilities and several thousand service companies 2



### and manufacturers. 3



### I would like to commend the EPA for 4


### including buildi ng block four to demand

- side 5


### energy efficiency within the Clean Power Plan. 6


### By including demand

- side energy efficiency 7


### measures, impacted sectors that are not directly 8


### regulated by the plan will be able to 9



### nevertheless offset at least some of their 10



### increa sed costs of increasing electricity prices 11


### to reducing consumption. 12


### The water utility sector is estimated to 13


### use approximately one percent of the nation’s 14


### electricity supply to provide the water services, 15


### and in some areas a larger percentage. By 16



### transla ting the projected increased costs as 17


### electricity to the water sector, it is likely 18


### that this rule will cost utilities approximately 19


### $250 million per year by 2020, which is more 20


### expensive than most drinking water regulations 21


### have been historically. If the sector is able to 22301

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### secure just one percent of the funding likely to 1


### become available for energy efficiency measures, 2


### the sector’s cost is likely to be reduced by 3


### about $100 million per year. 4


### AWWA strongly believes that the water 5



### utilities sector could be an important part of 6


### reaching the state’s goals laid out within the 7



### EPA’s Clean Power Plan. There is an ever

8


### increasing body of literature about ways to 9


### increase energy efficiency at water treatment 10


### plants, in drinking water distribution, and in 11



### wastewate r collection and treatment. 12


### In many ways, water utilities are a 13


### golden opportunity for energy efficiency programs 14


### as they are professionally staffed, continuously 15


### operated, are present in most communities around 16


### the country and their efficiency gains ca n be 17


### easily verified as needed. 18


### Although water utilities can participate 19


### to some extent in the more common replacement of 20


### lighting and heating and air conditioning systems 21


### that are presently in current state plans, we 22302

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### believe that there are great gains to be made 1



### throughout the Water

- Energy nexus not only 2


### covered by existing state rebate incentive 3


### programs, but to include other items such as more 4


### efficient pumps and motors, reducing lost water 5


### and rehabilitation and replacement of worn and 6



### less

- efficient i nfrastructure with more efficient 7


### equivalents. 8



### Therefore, the AWWA would like to 9


### encourage the EPA to include language in the 10


### final rule as well as in guidance and supporting 11



### materials for the states, electric utilities and 12


### the public that the water sec tor can be included 13


### as an important part of achieving energy 14


### efficiency upgrades. 15


### We further encourage the EPA in their 16


### discussions with and guidance to states to allow 17


### for custom energy efficiency improvements to be 18


### eligible for funding rebates and incen tives as 19


### many of the solutions throughout the water sector 20


### will be custom solutions for the particular 21



### circumstances in that area. 22303

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### Thank you for your time and attention, 1


### and the AWWA looks forward to submitting 2


### additional written comments during the remai nder 3


### of the comment period. Thank you. 4


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you. 5



### Doug O’Malley. 6



### MR. O’MALLEY: Good afternoon. My name 7


### is Doug O’Malley, and I’m the Director with the 8


### Environment New Jersey. We represent over 20,000 9



### citizen members a cross the great garden state. 10



### MR. DEMOCKER: If you could spell your 11



### name, too. 12



### MR. O’MALLEY: Sure. I’m Doug, D

- o

- u

- g, 13


### O’Malley, O apostrophe, capital M

- a

- l

- l

- e

- y, a 14


### great Italian name. 15


### I just want to start out by actually 16


### thanking each of you individ ually

-- both 17


### chairmen and Glenn for, again, your diligence and 18


### listening to all of this testimony. This is 19


### clearly a marathon session both here and in 20



### Room A and across the country. 21


### And obviously thank you to Administrator 22304

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### McCarthy for soliciting comme nts from across a 1



### broad swath. You know, I’ve of course only had a 2



### chance to listen to a few testimonies over the 3



### course of the last half of an hour; but you know, 4



### the fact that Susan flew all of the way here from 5


### Iowa, and she talked about the importance of 6


### climate change regarding the faith community. 7



### You know, she had these testaments to, you know, 8


### the fact that there is just broad public support, 9


### you know, for this rule that the Administrator 10



### has moved forward. 11


### And most, I guess, poignant for mysel f, a 12


### year ago, I taped a video request to the 13


### President with my at that point six

- month

- old 14


### daughter, Elsa, asking for him to follow through, 15



### the Obama Administration, on his clean

– - the 16


### climate action plan. And, you know, it obviously 17


### wasn’t just

- – it obviously was a lot of hard 18



### work of the EPA over the course of the last, you 19



### know, really I would say 18 months, you tell me 20



### -- how long have you been working on this? 21



### But that’s

-- you know, this is a huge 22305

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### step forward and millions of Americans have b een 1


### calling for this action. I think also poignant 2


### too, this is the first part of completing a 3


### promise made by then candidate Obama on the night 4


### of his acceptance speech six years ago in saying 5



### that this Administration will be the 6


### Administration that stop s the rising of the seas. 7


### And that’s a promise that, you know, 8


### wasn’t necessarily fulfilled as much as it could 9



### be in the first term. The Clean Power Plan will 10


### help to fulfill it in the second term. 11


### And I just want to talk briefly on why 12



### this matter i s so important

- – why this issue is 13


### so important obviously for New Jersey and the 14


### impacts of the climate. I also just want to talk 15


### about, you know, what New Jersey is doing and why 16


### we can’t do it alone, and then finally, the 17


### importance of a strong Federal Implementation 18


### Plan. So recalcitrant states, whatever they 19


### might need, you will know that you cannot wait 20



### this one out. 21


### Just to talk about climate impacts, the 22306

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### latest research from Rutgers really mirrors the 1


### issues we have seen across the way). Thirty

- five 2


### years from now, we will see a sea level rise of a 3



### foot

- and

- a

- half in Jersey. I don't know if folks 4


### in the audience have been to the Jersey Shore 5



### recently. Parts of the Delaware Bay shore are 6


### actually below sea level and then Atlantic City 7



### and Long B each Island, really the hubs of our 8


### tourism economy, our barrier islands. And if we 9


### see, you know, a rise of 18 inches, we will see a 10


### vastly different shore. 11


### Clearly the impact of extreme weather is 12


### not esoteric despite what the Governor says for 13



### New Jer sey residents. Hurricane Sandy turned our 14


### city upside down. And it wasn’t just the shore. 15


### It was our communities right across from New York 16


### City up in Hudson County. It was inland 17


### communities that got flooded. It was obviously 18


### the majority of the stat e that was without power 19



### for two

- plus weeks. 20



### You know, there are shore communities 21


### that are still devastated that aren’t necessarily 22307

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### coming back because people, you know, were

– you 1


### know, obviously it’s hard to rebuild. And it’s 2



### clear not only that we ne ed to adapt to climate 3


### change, but we need to mitigate it. And 4


### obviously this action will help us to do that. 5


### And then finally we heard, you know, from 6


### PSR on the importance of, you know, the health 7


### impacts. A city like New York by 2050 is 8


### projected to have over 50 days of 90 degree plus 9


### temperature. This is in a state where over 10



### 600,000 people suffer from asthma, and a state 11


### where 17 of 18 counties are out of compliance 12


### with our ozone standards. So as it stands right 13



### now, we have a lot of work to do, and climate 14


### change is going to

- – is going to load the dice 15


### and make things a lot harder. 16


### Just to get on into the second point, New 17



### Jersey has done so much. We have done

– - we have 18


### one of the strongest laws on the books to fight 19


### global warming and global warming response by 20


### reducing emissions by 80 percent by 2050. We are 21


### one of the top states in the country in solar, 22308

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### New Jersey. We’re there

- – right there with 1


### Germany and California. 2


### And then finally our offshore wind 3


### potential is huge. And BOEM re cently granted an 4


### offshore wind option off the Jersey Shore. We 5


### expect to see that being moving forward as 6


### shortly as possible. 7


### But one power plant in Georgia puts out 8


### more pollution than all of our power plants 9


### combined. That’s why regardless of what we do in 10


### New Jersey, we desperately need federal action. 11



### And the Clean Power Plan can help us to do that. 12


### And finally, just on the

-- you know, 13



### that’s the bulk of the Clean Power Plan, the 14


### building blocks that we have heard so much about. 15



### You know, I certainly want to echo the 16


### recommendation of PSR on the need to really 17


### double down on true energy solutions like energy 18


### efficiency and solar and not to be doubling down 19


### on gas and expanding nuclear facilities. 20


### And just my last comment on this is that 21



### the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, it’s a 22309

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### great program. Other states should join it, and 1


### New Jersey should rejoin it. There is a public 2


### hearing eight days from now, for New Jersey to do 3



### that. Regardless of government preseason 4


### transience, New Jersey w ill need to comply with 5



### the Clean Power Plan. And I strongly encourage 6



### the Administration and the Administrator to move 7


### forward, not just with the plan, but to be, you 8


### know, strong with the Federal Implementation Plan 9



### for states that hem and haw and say t hey have 10


### already met their goals when they haven’t. 11


### Thank you again for all of your work, and 12


### obviously thank you to the Administrator for all 13


### of her work. I look forward to working with the 14


### EPA in the months and years to come. 15


### MR. DEMOCKER: All righ t. Thank you both 16



### very much. 17


### Okay. Next up we have Hugh Pitcher and 18


### Kristin Barker. Or just Kristin Barker. 19


### All right. Welcome, and if you could, 20



### spell your name for the court reporter. Thank 21



### you. 22310

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### MS. BARKER: Kristin, K

- r

- i

- s

- t

- i

- n, 1



### Barker, B

- a

- r

- k

- e

- r. 2


### As a native of New Mexico, a parent, a 3


### practicing Buddhist and co

- founder of a community 4


### of Buddhists engaged on climate change and as 5


### someone recently diagnosed with Lyme disease, I 6


### am here to speak in support of the Clean Power 7



### Plan. 8



### The 2 500

- year

- old Buddhist tradition is, 9


### at its core, asking us to each look closely at 10


### what is happening and then respond with wisdom 11


### and compassion. As it turns out, there are many 12


### teachings from that tradition that apply to 13


### question of coal

- fired power plan t emissions. 14



### First and foremost, Buddhism is embedded 15


### with a deep reverence for the whole of life. All 16


### other beings, human and non

- human, are understood 17


### to be endowed with an inherently pure, vast, 18


### luminous and loving nature. The “first precept” 19



### of cons ciously and vigilantly minimizing the harm 20


### thus arises from this clarity. 21



### You have heard by now many accounts of 22311

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### how systematic and broad

- scale the harm, and coal 1


### plant emissions as being the cause. This harm 2


### comes directly in the form of decreased air 3


### quality in more than half of the country’s local 4


### communities, and it comes indirectly through 5


### their significant contribution to climate change 6


### with upwards of 40 percent of the U.S. carbon 7


### emissions arising every day from these 8



### facilities. 9



### Buddhism holds that we are all charged 10


### not only with protecting all present beings, but 11


### those yet unborn. The threat of global climate 12


### change thus implores us to speak and act to cut 13


### these emissions in order to protect the basic 14



### conditions for life. 15



### Buddhism also reco gnizes the need for 16


### right

- livelihood. That is, we each must have the 17


### means for living in a way that meets our own 18


### basic needs and refrains from harming others. 19


### While proponents of the coal

- fired power plants 20


### may point to the threat of job loss, it is in 21


### your power to create the conditions for not only 22312

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### many more clean energy jobs in the future, but 1


### the integrity of all of these jobs. We simply 2


### cannot blame the Kentucky coal miner for the harm 3



### her labors cause when she has no viable 4



### alternatives. It is in the EPA’s power to create 5


### the market conditions that produce jobs and more 6



### harm

- free jobs. 7


### My tradition also speaks to the 8


### underlying causes of climate change as they are 9


### the same for all causes of suffering. Why in the 10



### presence of a clear and present d anger on the 11


### scale of global warming would we not take 12



### decisive action to curb on emissions

-- carbon 13



### emissions? 14


### The Buddhist wisdom tradition points to 15


### the three poisons, the qualities that distort our 16


### view, at the same time bind our awakening to the 17



### tru th of our natural and pure being. These are 18


### the forces of greed, hatred and delusion. In our 19


### complex civilization, these have taken on 20


### institutionalized form. Corporations are running 21


### solely on greed as well as a media and the body 22313

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### politic willing to pe rpetuate delusion. 1



### The EPA, with the Clean Power Plan, thus 2


### has a critical role to play in checking these 3


### forces on a national scale, insisting that the 4


### undiluted reality of a degrading global 5


### atmosphere come into balance with private coal 6


### company inter ests. 7


### Finally, the Buddhist wisdom tradition 8


### understands that all things are interdependent. 9


### There may be no better illustration of this truth 10


### than climate change. The coal pulled from the 11


### mountains of Western Virginia and burned in Ohio 12



### creates carbon pollution that warms the Earth and 13


### melts the glaciers of Tibet, flooding villages in 14


### Nepal and draining into the Indian Ocean which 15



### rises sea levels which in turn flood the U.S. 16


### Naval base in Norfolk, Virginia. 17


### We are all learning that none of us, not 18



### as individuals, communities or even nations, is 19


### wholly separate and independent of each other. 20



### While this runs in stark contrast to idealized 21


### notions of rugged individualism, global and 22314

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### catastrophic climate change will be a ruthless 1



### teacher if we don’t learn this lesson soon 2



### enough. 3


### But if the causes of global climate 4


### change are interdependent, so are its solutions. 5



### We are not separate. To protect the Earth, the 6


### air, the water is to protect life, to protect 7



### ourselves. 8



### The EPA, through the Clean Power Pl an as 9


### a first step, has the duty and opportunity to 10


### minimize the harm, enable plentiful and ethical 11


### jobs, recognize the interdependence of all life 12


### and play its assigned role in protecting the 13


### conditions for a healthy life to continue. 14


### Thank you for thi s is opportunity to 15


### speak on this most critical issue. 16



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. 17


### Hugh Pitcher. 18


### MR. PITCHER: Hello, my name is Hugh 19



### Pitcher, H

- u

- g

- h, P

- i

- t

- c

- h

- e

- r. 20



### I worked at EPA from 1978 through 1989 21



### when I worked for the Joint Global Change 22315

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### Research Institute where I retired from in 2010. 1



### I want to talk today about a couple of 2


### issues that I have been researching since then. 3


### The first one has to do with the pattern we see 4


### when it comes to sea level rise. When you look 5



### at the time in which I have done most of my 6


### thinking about this issue, you see that beginning 7


### in about 1995 we began to see this terrible 8


### change in the seasonal pattern. The ice melt in 9



### the artic

– - in the sea ice. The sea ice doesn’t 10


### have anything to do with sea leve l rise, but the 11


### energy that goes up there is pretty substantial. 12


### In other words, if you take half of the 13


### energy that goes to melting sea ice, that will 14


### give you about three centimeters of sea level 15


### rise a year from melting ice. And that doesn’t 16



### sound l ike much, but that’s a foot a decade. A 17



### foot a decade is a lot of sea level rise. 18


### So the problem we have there is that we may be 19


### well on the way to having a situation where by, 20


### say, 2020 to 2030 we will have no ice left in 21


### spring and summer time in the arctic. At that 22316

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### point in time, the energy will go to melting 1


### Greenland. And once Greenland starts melting, I 2



### think we’re about

- – well, Greenland will give us 3



### about seven meters of sea level rise which will 4


### pretty well ruin downtown D.C. along with lots of 5



### other places on the face of the planet. 6



### So the second problem that I have has to 7


### do with longevity, and I have been doing a lot of 8


### work on that lately. The problem with longevity 9


### is that when we make our estimates, we use a way 10


### of looking at the dat a that ignores the fact that 11



### as you get younger cohorts, they have overall a 12


### better life expectancy in the long run. So what 13



### we do is we look at the

– - we make an estimate on 14



### -- all of the life expectancy numbers that we 15



### have in front of us are estimated by saying it’s 16



### – - well, basically I’m 73 now. I mean, the way 17


### my estimate would be done, they would take the 18



### death rates for people 74, 75, 76, 77

- – the 19


### current death rate. But if you look at the 20



### pattern of my cohort compared to these cohorts, 21


### you will see that my death rate is not going to 22317

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### be that high, so instead of

- – 1


### MR. DEMOCKER: Excuse me, could you bring 2


### the microphone a little closer? 3



### MR. PITCHER: Sorry. 4



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. 5


### MR. PITCHER: So the problem is that the 6



### death rates that wer e used to project life 7


### expectancy are too high. And in my case, it 8


### makes about three years difference per 9



### individual. But I’m not an individual. There 10



### are a couple hundred

- – probably 700,000 people 11


### like me out there. So if you add three years to 12



### that, that’s going to be two million years more 13



### - – lives

– - years lived. That’s going to be an 14


### expensive bill. It’s about two million bucks a 15



### year

-- two billion bucks a year on average. 16


### So that’s just with this one cohort, just 17



### for the males. Females ar e harder to work with 18


### unfortunately because they have something that 19


### starts at about age 60 that increases their rates 20



### more than when they reach about age 80, and then 21


### comes back. It still stays less

– it’s still is 22318

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### lower than males. But even so, in this problem 1


### you are going to have this very expensive bill 2


### coming due in say 2040

– 2050, about the time 3


### that the sea level rise becomes a problem. 4


### So it’s a combination of these things 5


### that suggests that this is a good time to be very 6


### aggressive about cu rbing Greenhouses gases 7



### because if we don’t

- – if we are not aggressive 8


### now, we are going to be in big trouble later on. 9



### Thank you. 10



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you very much. I 11


### will just note as a personal note, it’s nice to 12



### see you. Back when I was a young analyst at EPA, 13


### newly minted in the late 1980’s. Hugh was very 14


### patient with me in explaining a lot of the 15


### principles about what

- – how work gets done 16


### around the EPA, so it’s nice to see you again. 17


### It’s been a while, so it’s nice to see you. 18



### And thank you both for your comments. 19



### Okay. We have two cards. I assume we 20


### can do these together. It’s Rodney Sobin and 21



### Donald Goldberg. 22319

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### All right. We will start with Rodney 1


### Sobin. I if you could, spell your name. 2



### MR. SOBIN: Okay. Thank you. 3


### My name is Rodney Sobin, R

- o

- d

- n

- e

- y, 4



### S

- o

- b

- i

- n. And I am Director of Research and 5


### Regulatory Affairs of The Alliance to Save 6



### Energy. 7


### The Alliance to Save Energy appreciates 8


### the opportunity to speak at this public hearing 9



### on the Clean Power Plan. The Alliance, founded 10


### in 1977 by Senators Charles Percy and Hubert 11


### Humphrey, is a coalition of

– - is a non

- profit 12


### coalition of business, government, environmental 13



### and consumer leaders that supports energy 14


### efficiency as a cost

- effective energy resource 15



### and advocates ene rgy

- efficiency policies that 16


### minimize costs to society and individual 17



### consumers. 18


### MR. DEMOCKER: Sorry to interrupt you, 19


### can you bring the microphone

- – 20



### MR. SOBIN: Sure. Sorry about that. 21



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. 22320

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### MR. SOBIN: I’m losing seconds on your 1



### clock. 2


### MR. DEMOCKER: Oh, we will give you the 3



### seconds back. 4



### MR. SOBIN: The Alliance has worked 5


### extensively with energy utilities, commercial 6


### industrial firms, public agencies, consumer and 7


### environmental organizations, and others to 8



### promote energy efficiency as an approach to 9


### mitigate the environmental impacts of energy use 10



### as well as to achieve other benefits. 11


### When air quality regulations are 12


### considered, we favor approaches that recognize 13


### credit and promote the role of energy efficiency 14



### for redu cing adverse and environmental impacts. 15



### Therefore, we applaud the EPA for 16


### including and encouraging energy efficiency as a 17


### compliance strategy in the Clean Power Plan. The 18


### prominent position of energy efficiency in the 19


### proposed rule offers a potentially transformative 20


### opportunity to increase the nation’s energy 21


### efficiency and its energy productivity; that is 22321

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### the amount of GDP generated per unit of energy 1



### consumed. 2


### In applauding EPA’s recognition of energy 3


### efficiency, we also wish to offer several 4



### observa tions that we hope will strengthen the 5


### role of efficiency below a compliance cost while 6


### delivering economic, energy reliability and 7



### environmental benefits. 8


### First, states need clearer guidance on 9



### how to convert rate

- based goals to mass

- based 10



### goals. States need such guidance in order to 11



### consider mass

- based limit option. States that 12



### adopt mass

- based approach where compliance is 13



### measured as CO2 at the stacks may be able to 14


### adopt efficiency policies and evaluation, 15



### measurement and verification, that is EM&V 16



### p rocesses, in their compliance plans that don’t 17


### need as much scrutiny from EPA as they would 18



### under a rate

- based system, but would nonetheless 19



### deliver emissions reductions. 20


### Second, states need clearer guidance on 21


### including non

- utility efficiency policies a nd 22322

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### programs in their compliance plans. The rule 1


### proposal and its technical support documents 2


### appear to focus on utility ratepayer supported 3


### efficiency programs when discussing EM&V, 4


### enforceability and other considerations. 5



### However, more than half of U. S. energy 6


### efficiency investments are undertaken outside of 7


### utility program contexts. About $6 billion of 8


### privately contracted energy efficiency projects 9


### are performed annually by energy service 10


### companies. This amount is comparable in 11


### magnitude to utility demand

- side management 12



### programs. 13


### In addition to state building codes, 14


### weatherization programs, local building policies 15


### and programs, and industrial investments in 16


### efficiency and combined heat and power and also 17


### public sector energy upgrades such as for s treet 18


### lighting and water and sewer

-- which we heard 19



### from the AWWA speaker before

-- and other systems 20


### also contribute to energy savings and concomitant 21



### emissions avoidance. 22323

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### Third, enforceability EM&V and other 1


### state plan consideration that should be bal anced 2


### to assure that energy savings are accurately 3


### counted but that requirements are not cumbersome. 4



### Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. 5


### There is a tradeoff between accuracy and rigor on 6



### the one side, and cost and effort on the other 7



### side for EM&V and emissions quantification. 8


### Cumbersome requirements impeded the use 9


### of energy efficiency and renewable energy to meet 10


### criteria pollutant requirements under the NOx SIP 11



### Call and other programs. 12



### We are pleased the EPA developed and 13



### EE/RE and SIPS Roadmap and quantification tools 14


### to help address this for criteria pollutants and 15



### believe such tools will be useful under the Clean 16



### Power Plan. 17



### The EPA should also allow the use of 18



### model

- based evaluation of energy savings and 19


### emissions impacts as it do es for transportation 20


### measures under State Implementations Plans and 21


### transportation conformity programs. Many energy 22324

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### efficiency measures are small, widely disbursed 1


### activities more resembling individual vehicles 2


### than regulated stationary sources. 3



### If va rious transportation measures can be 4



### credited for NOx reductions and reduced ambient 5



### ozone layers

– - levels, with all of the 6


### complexity and uncertainty of the modeling 7


### weather and atmospheric chemistry, it would seem 8


### likely that crediting energy efficiency for 9


### avoided power plant CO2 should be more straight 10



### forward. 11


### My fourth point concerns combined heat 12



### and power, CHP, where we support a full 13


### 100 percent crediting of useful recovered thermal 14


### energy. Again, the appliance

- – the Alliance 15



### applauds the EPA for recognizing and encouraging 16


### energy efficiency for reducing emissions and 17


### achieving compliance. We will continue to engage 18


### with you, including through a formal written 19


### comment, while working with our stakeholders on 20


### this topic. 21



### Thank you for the opp ortunity to speak 22325

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### today on this important proposal, and we hope 1



### these comments are useful. 2


### MR. GOLDBERG: Hello, my name is Donald 3


### Goldberg. I am the President of the Climate Law 4


### and Policy Project here in Washington. It’s 5


### based here in Washington. Pre viously

- – 6



### MR. DEMOCKER: Could you spell your last 7



### name? 8



### MR. GOLDBERG: I’m sorry, Goldberg, 9



### G

- o

- l

- d

- b

- e

- r

- g. 10



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. 11



### MR. GOLDBERG: I also directed the 12


### Climate Program at the Center for International 13


### and Environmental Law for many years since its 14


### inception until about 2007 when we started CLPP. 15



### I hadn’t planned to comment today, but I 16



### saw there was a little time available and I 17


### appreciate the opportunity to come in as a last

18


### minute speaker. We will submit formal comments 19



### before t he end of the comment period. But I 20


### wanted to say a couple of things quickly. 21


### First, I want to compliment the work the 22326

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### EPA has done. It went in a direction very 1


### similar to what we have been advocating and 2


### hoping for. For many years, we have been 3



### propos ing, advocating an approach that when we 4


### first came out with it, it was very 5



### controversial. 6


### We believed that the shift in targeting 7



### -- in characterizing targets should be not so 8



### much on the emissions

– - of course, the emissions 9


### are ultimately most impo rtant, but we believe 10



### that a reduction

- based approach could have a lot 11


### of merit. I won’t go into all of the reasons. 12


### But initially, we started just as a way 13


### to bring developing countries into the general 14



### protocol

– - to devise a target that developing 15



### cou ntries could meet safely at a time when a cap 16



### didn’t seem realistic for them. 17


### Subsequently, as we analyzed this 18



### further, we began to see more and more problems 19


### with cap and trade and with carbon taxes. I 20


### think one way to sum them up is simply to point 21



### o ut that it require

– - both require emitters to 22327

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### pay both for

– - both the cost of making 1



### reductions and for their emissions. And we think 2


### that this makes climate regulation needlessly 3


### expensive. We are not looking to put companies 4



### out of business because w e need those companies 5


### to actually help solve this problem. 6


### I will just make two quick points about 7


### the regulation that you have proposed. I haven’t 8


### read every page of it, but I have read quite a 9


### lot of it. I was very pleased to see that it 10



### appears to take an approach that’s consistent 11



### with reduction

- based counting. I think it 12



### affects what EPA has done. 13


### Our proposal would require emitters to 14



### make a certain amount of reduction for each time 15



### of the emission. You can almost think of it as a 16



### pay

- as

- yo u

- go system. So for a 20 percent 17


### target, say for each time of emission, the 18


### emitter would be responsible for 20 percent of 19


### action to bring back reductions, 20 percent of a 20



### ton in reductions. 21


### The EPA obviously doesn’t go that far, 22328

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### and that will be the d ecision for the states; 1


### but, you know, we hope that EPA will think about 2


### that and be mindful of the fact that the polluter 3


### pays principles and carbon taxes and cap and 4


### trade of all costs on emitters proportionately to 5



### their emissions. So we think it would make sense 6


### to stick to that principle when states implement 7


### the EPA rule and a reduction target would 8


### accomplish

- – the action target I talked about 9


### would accomplish that. 10


### I also just wanted to mention two things. 11


### Well, I said costs should be borne by emitters. 12


### And with your

- – the way you planned

-- you have 13



### proposed to translate from

- – from rate

- based to 14



### mass

- based targets, we think takes us away from 15



### that, the benefits of a reduction

- based or even a 16



### rate

- based approach and gets us back into cap and 17



### trade. 18


### We hope you will think

– - well, we will 19


### submit formally our proposal. And we hope you 20


### will consider this idea of making reductions 21


### proportionate to emissions rather than projecting 22329

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### what emissions might be and trying to set a mass

1



### based target t hat would be equivalent to a rate

2


### based target. We think this pay

- as

- you

- go 3


### approach would make for exact equivalence. So I 4


### will stop there. 5


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thanks very 6


### much. And I will assure you, we will consider 7


### every option. 8



### MR. GOLDBER G: I’m sure you will. 9



### MR. DEMOCKER: Thank you. 10


### All right. Greg Bertelsen. 11



### MR. BERTELSEN: Hi. 12



### MR. DEMOCKER: If you could, spell your 13



### name for the court reporter. That would be 14



### great. 15



### MR. BERTELSEN: Berterlsen, 16



### B

- e

- r

- t

- e

- l

- s

- e

- n. 17



### MR. DEMOC KER: Thanks. It’s all yours. 18



### MR. BERTELSEN: Good afternoon. 19


### My name is Greg Bertelsen, and on behalf 20



### of the National Association of Manufacturers and 21


### its 12,000 members, I am pleased to offer the 22330

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### following remarks on the Environmental Protection 1



### Age ncy’s proposed Greenhouse Gas Regulation for 2


### Existing Power Plants. 3


### The NAM is the nation’s largest 4


### Industrial Trade Association representing small, 5


### medium and large manufacturers in every 6



### industrial sector and in all 50 states. We all 7


### have a responsib ility to ensure that we leave a 8



### clean and safe environment for future 9


### generations. Manufacturers are committed to 10


### doing

– - or continuing to do our part. 11


### Manufacturing and other industrial’s 12


### carbon emissions are down 13 percent since 2005, 13



### while manufactu res value to the economy grew by 14


### 19 percent over the same time period. 15


### These reductions have been driven by 16


### technological breakthroughs, increased energy 17


### efficiency and a commitment to sustainability 18


### principles. Manufacturers create the products 19



### and syst ems that drive efficiency and reduce 20



### emissions from better insulation for homes, to 21


### more efficient engines, to more dynamic recycling 22331

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### programs. 1


### The importance of getting this policy 2


### right could not be overstated. The manufacturing 3


### comeback is taking plac e in this country, in part 4


### driven by access to affordable and reliable 5



### energy. 6


### This regulation as proposed threatens 7


### this comeback by fundamentally changing how 8


### energy is made, distributed and consumed. It 9


### will increase energy prices. It will limit or 10


### eliminate sources of energy in some parts of the 11


### country. It could threaten the reliability of 12


### our electricity grid, and decisions once 13


### controlled by market forces like supply and 14


### demand will now be dictated through regulation. 15



### If the Administration is intent on 16


### continuing down the path of issuing Greenhouse 17


### Gas Regulations for Existing Power Plants, the 18


### EPA has a duty to ensure that its regulation is 19



### legal, enforceable and does not add unnecessary 20


### layers of regulatory uncertainty that will freeze 21



### invest ments and stifle innovation. 22332

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### The NAM questions whether portions of the 1


### proposed regulation will pass legal muster. Even 2


### with an expansive review of the Clean Air Act and 3


### extreme deference to agency interpretations of 4


### statutory law, it is nearly impossibl e to imagine 5


### how the best system of emission reduction for a 6


### power plan could include actions and investments 7


### that take place well beyond the fence line of 8


### that facility and reach to any entity that may 9


### produce or utilize energy. 10


### When regulatory agencies bound by laws 11


### written by Congress develop new terms like 12


### inregulatory materials like tailoring or building 13


### blocks, is a warning sign to the NAM that they be 14


### exceeding their legal authority. 15


### To date, the agency has not indicated how 16



### and under what author ity it plans to implement 17


### such a program if it does not remove states’ 18


### plans. How can the agency in good faith proceed 19


### with a policy if it cannot enforce it? 20



### The NMA encourages the EPA to heed the 21


### warning of the Supreme Court when it struck down 22333

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### the Gree nhouse Gas Tailoring Rule earlier this 1



### year. 2


### The Court’s majority opinion stated 3


### quote, “When an agency claims to discover in a 4



### long

- extant statute an unheralded power to 5


### regulate a significant portion of the economy, we 6


### typically greet its announcement with a measure 7


### of skepticism.” 8


### We expect Congress to speak clearly if it 9


### wishes to assign an agency decisions of vast 10


### economic and political significance. 11


### To be clear, the NAM does not question 12


### state’s ability to adapt implementing measures 13



### that allow f or a wide range of compliance 14


### options. However, there are significant legal 15


### questions regarding how the agency has set its 16



### states targets

- – state targets, that demand 17


### attention before we go any further with this 18



### regulatory process. 19


### Listing all of the NA M’s concerns, 20


### questions and uncertainties associated with this 21


### regulation will take much longer than five 22334

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### minutes. Through the Partnership for a Better 1


### Energy Future, a diverse coalition of 172 2


### organizations, the NAM submitted a letter on 3



### July 21 st 

### , 2014 , to the EPA describing in more 4



### detail several of these concerns. 5


### The NAM encourages the EPA to pull this 6


### proposed regulation back and address the concerns 7


### expressed in the partnership’s letter and the 8


### numerous other concerns and questions raised by 9



### oth er stakeholders. 10


### At a minimum, the NAM respectfully 11


### requests that you extend the comment deadline by 12


### another 60 days so that we have adequate time to 13


### review, assess and ultimately comment on the 1600 14



### pages of the regulatory text. 15


### The stakes of this pol icy could not be 16


### higher. Prioritizing arbitrary deadlines over a 17


### vast and inclusive rule making process is unwise 18


### at best, and in the eyes of manufacturers is 19


### irresponsible. 20


### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 21


### with you today on this important issue. With the 22335

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### right policies and access to affordable and 1


### reliable energy, manufacturers in the United 2


### States will continue to develop sustainable 3


### solutions that will fuel job creation and drive 4


### economic growth. 5



### Thank you very much. 6


### MR. DEMOCKER: All rig ht. Thank you for 7


### sharing your comments. 8


### All right. Well, we don’t have any more 9


### speakers in the cue, but we have been asked to 10


### keep the session open until 5:00, sharp so it’s 11


### nine minutes. So we will just be here and stand 12


### by. And if anyone does sh ow up in the last 13


### minute, we want to make sure that they have an 14


### opportunity to speak. So maybe we should do 15


### exercises or something. 16


### Laverne van Vliet. I hope I pronounced 17


### it right. You can correct me. 18


### MS. VAN VLIET: I’m just joining because 19



### it seems fun, and I think this is where I’m 20



### supposed to be. 21


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. And if you 22336

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### could, spell your name for the court reporter. 1



### That would be great. So we are back on the 2



### record. 3



### MS. VAN VLIET: Lauren van Vliet. That’s 4



### L

- a

- u

- r

- e

- n, lower cas e v

- a

- n, space, capital 5



### V

- l

- i

- e

- t. It’s always fun to spell. 6


### Well, thank you guys for fitting me in. 7


### I hear you have got dinner break soon, so I 8


### apologize but it’s quite a room you’re sitting 9


### in, so thank you first for listening to all of us 10



### because I hear you guys have been doing this for 11



### two days. 12


### So what I have to tell you guys is that 13


### it is a little bit of a numbers speech, and I’m 14


### sure you guys are sort of sick of that. But the 15


### electric power sector contributes one

- third of 16



### the total U.S. Green house Gas emissions. I would 17


### just like that to sink in, that’s one

- third. 18


### And I don’t get how that number is not 19


### big enough yet. And maybe it’s the hamburger 20



### effect, a quarter

- pounder somehow seems more 21


### immense than things that are in one

- thirds. But 22337

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### perhaps it’s just been a while since we have all 1



### had math class. 2



### But I don’t think the Count on Sesame 3


### Street ever really covered fractions. And if he 4


### did, I can see why he didn’t go into thirds 5



### because thirds are sort of a terrible number. A 6



### third of the world’s population lacks sufficient 7


### access to drinking water. A third of Americans 8



### over 20 are obese. And a third of Americans have 9


### delinquent death. Thirds are terrifying numbers. 10


### A thirds is also the amount of gas that comes out 11



### of our power plan ts which affects lungs. So, no, 12


### I don’t think the Count ever taught thirds, but 13


### because terrible things happens in thirds but 14



### maybe halves could be better. 15



### One half

– - that’s not threatening. 16



### Halves

– - milk comes in halves. Half off 17


### clearance is pretty nice

-- so what else comes in 18


### halves? Your lungs. According to the American 19


### Lung Association, half of children under the age 20


### of 18 experience asthma attacks. And I don't 21


### know if you three have ever experienced an asthma 22338

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### attack, but breathing comes in h alf

-- literally 1


### in half. Imagine if the Count could review that. 2


### Now kids, my pets

- – half of them can’t 3


### breathe. So imagine quite literally half of them 4


### not flying. That wouldn’t fly on PBS, and that 5


### doesn’t fly in America. We can’t have half of 6



### o ur kids not being able to breathe at some point 7



### in their lives. 8


### And I just want to let you to know what 9


### asthma attacks are like. I am lucky enough to 10


### not have them anymore. But just imagine your 11


### windpipe tightening. Not just to one

- third of 12



### its size, not just to one

- half of its size or 13



### one

- quarter of its size, try an eighth. And 14


### imagine your diaphragm then pumping up and down 15


### and convulsing desperately trying to breathe and 16


### get air into your lungs. And you’re heaving and 17



### the best you can do to despe rately try to get a 18


### breath, each breath exhausts you. It’s like 19


### you’re drowning on dry land, and wide eyed and 20


### terrified. And you start knocking things over 21


### and hoping that someone will hear you because you 22339

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### sure as hell can’t say anything even if someone 1


### is around you. And so your entire body flushes 2


### with panic and your mind tries to coax your body 3


### into breathing. 4


### I know that feeling all too well. And 5


### I’m here today because I don’t want that feeling 6


### to happen to anybody else. Not in America and 7



### not on Earth. I’m also sick with asthma and sick 8


### with people telling me that America is the best 9


### nation in the world, and telling me that America 10



### is the world’s leader, America this, and America 11


### that. And America just needs to quit it with the 12



### self

- glorifyin g propaganda and start acting as a 13



### world leader. 14


### And you guys can help with doing that by 15



### - – by listening to everyone who has come before 16



### you. And over the past few days, we are the 17


### people behind the statistics, so please hear that 18


### and think, hey, I co uld maybe not be a hero, but 19


### I can do my job and cut emissions that are coming 20


### out of these power plants and help children 21


### breathe, and take action against an antiquated 22340

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### industry that is hurting American people. Take 1


### action to prevent carbon emissions. T hanks. 2


### MR. DEMOCKER: All right. Thank you very 3


### much for your comments. We appreciate it. Okay. 4


### And with that, we stand adjourned until the 5


### evening session which will start at 6:00 p.m. 6


### All right, great. Well, thank you all 7


### for coming. And on behal f of everyone at the 8


### panel and everyone at EPA that will be reviewing 9


### and considering your comments, thank you for 10


### sharing them. So thank you. 11


### (Dinner recess from 4:59 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.) 12



### EVENING SESSION 13



### EPA PANEL 3: 14


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Good evening eve rybody. 15


### My name is Peter Tsirigotis and I am one of the 16


### Chairs of today’s public hearing. Thank you for 17


### coming today. Joining me on the panel this 18


### evening are Bill Stevens and Bill Irving. 19


### We are here today to listen to your 20



### comments on two proposed r ules to reduce carbon 21


### pollution from power plants. The EPA announced 22341

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### both of these proposed rules on June 2 nd 

### , 2014. 1



### Power plants are the largest source of 2


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 3



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 4



### emiss ions. 5


### The first rule is EPA’s proposed Clean 6


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 7


### proposal consists of two main parts: State

8


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 9


### power plants and guidelines to help states 10


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 11


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 12


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 13


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 14


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 15


### their goals by 2030. 16


### The second rule is EPA’s propose d 17



### rule to address carbon dioxide emissions from 18


### modified and reconstructed power plants. This 19


### rule would set emission limits for two groups of 20


### power plants, those that make physical or 21


### operational changes that increase the plant’s 22342

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### maximum achievable hourl y rate of emissions and 1



### those that replace components to such an extent 2



### that the new components exceed 50 percent of the 3


### capital cost of an entirely new, comparable 4


### facility. 5


### If you would like more details on either 6



### of these proposed rules, there are fac t sheets 7


### available near the registration desk. 8


### Today’s hearing is one of four public 9


### hearings across the country this week on the two 10


### proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 11


### in each of the hearings, and I would like to 12


### thank you for taking the tim e out of your day to 13


### join us and share your comments with us. 14


### We have a lot of people signed up to 15



### speak today, and we want to hear from all of 16


### them. So before we get started, I’d like to go 17


### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 18



### that will hel p make today’s hearing run smoothly. 19


### First, please be sure you have checked in 20


### at the registration desk even if you are not 21


### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 22343

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### speak online or by phone but haven’t told us that 1



### you’re here, please step out to the registration 2



### desk and let

- – let the EPA staff know that you 3



### have arrived. 4


### Second, if you are a speaker you were 5


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 6


### or Room B. Make sure you’re in the right room. 7


### And this is a good time to switch if you ’re in 8


### the wrong room. And this is Room B. 9


### All right. Here is how today’s hearing 10


### will work. I will call speakers up in pairs. 11


### When your name is called, please come to the 12



### table at the front of the room. When I call you 13



### to speak, please state your na me and spell it for 14



### the court reporter. 15



### Your comments will be transcribed and 16



### included in the record of comments in the 17


### proposed rules. Each speaker will have five 18


### minutes to give comments. We have a light to 19


### help you know how much time you have left to 20


### speak. When the light turns from green to 21


### yellow, that means that you have one minute 22344

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### remaining. When it turns red, that’s a signal to 1


### wrap up your testimony. The light will flash red 2


### and beep when you have spoken for five minutes 3



### and it is time to s top. 4


### When you are finished speaking, please 5


### remain at the table until the person next to you 6


### has completed his or her testimony. We are here 7


### to listen to you today, however a panel member 8


### may ask you questions to clarify your comments. 9



### I will then c all up the next pair of 10



### speakers and so on. 11


### If you have brought a written copy of 12


### your testimony, please give it to the staff at 13


### the registration desk before you leave today. 14



### Because of the large number of people 15


### that have signed up to speak and to be fa ir to 16


### everyone, we are going to strictly enforce the 17


### five minute time limit. If you have additional 18


### comments you would like to make, you can submit 19


### them in writing. 20


### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 21



### much consideration to comments we receive in 22345

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### wr iting as we do to comments we receive at public 1


### hearings like this one. So if you have more that 2


### you would like to say, please submit it. Your 3


### comments will be reviewed. There is plenty of 4


### time to get written comments in, and there are 5



### comment cards ava ilable at the registration desk. 6



### Comments must be received no later than October 7



### 16 th 

### , 2014. 8


### We will put any written comments 9


### submitted today in the official docket for the 10


### proposed rules. Instructions for submitting 11


### written comments and other ways ar e available at 12


### the materials table near the registration desk. 13


### We are scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 14


### tonight. If you have any questions, please see 15


### the staff at the registration desk and someone 16


### will try to help you. 17


### Finally, I want to ask each of you to 18



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 19


### today. We have people with a wide variety of 20



### views in the audience, and we want to hear from 21


### all of you. So we can do that and to be fair to 22346

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### everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly. 1



### Even applauds can s low things down, and we want 2


### to hear from everyone who signed up to speak. 3


### Thank you again for taking the time today 4



### to share your comments on EPA’s proposed rules. 5



### So we are ready to get started. Thanks for 6


### sitting by. 7


### The first two people are Carl Glincesten 8



### and Amanda Rones. Hopefully, I pronounced those 9



### correctly. If you could, spell your name for the 10



### court reporter

-- Amanda. Let’s give it one 11


### second, Carl, just to see if Amanda is outside, 12


### if you don’t mind. 13



### Let’s go ahead and get started. If you 14



### could, spell your name for the court reporter. 15



### MR. GLINCENSTEN: C

- a

- r

- l, 16



### G

- l

- i

- n

- c

- e

- n

- s

- t

- e

- n. 17



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 18


### MR. GLINCENSTEN: I just wanted to say

-- 19


### I just want to say that I strongly support the 20


### regulation because climate change is obviously a 21


### huge problem in this country’s future and as we 22347

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### move along. 1


### Already the earth has been warming for 2



### the last substantial bit of time, and if we do 3



### not deal with the climate as it stands, it will 4


### become catastrophic and cause mass e xtinctions. 5


### The statistic that I saw was that 40 percent of 6


### species will be threatened if we don’t act in a 7


### very short period of time. 8



### The areas that are now fertile for 9


### agriculture will no longer be fertile, and 10


### agriculture will suffer to a point whe re food 11


### supplies will be in danger. And we’re already 12


### having trouble feeding people on the planet as it 13



### is, so if we don’t deal with this current 14


### situation, it will be massively catastrophic. So 15


### it’s necessary to act immediately. 16


### And I just wanted to a lso say that while 17


### I support very strongly these initial steps, the 18


### Obama Administration’s plan to hold up drilling 19


### and to expand natural gas production are not good 20


### alternatives. We have to do everything we can to 21


### immediately switch to free our sources o f energy 22348

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### and that opening that up is not doing that 1


### obviously. And for natural gas, that is not 2


### really an alternative because it produces methane 3



### on the

-- well, methane is released on its 4


### production and that’s even worse for climate 5


### change in the short t erm and will probably last 6


### longer. And so this feverish rush to switch to 7


### natural gas is, from what I understand, urgently 8


### stated. And if you are, in fact, just fooling 9


### people, it doesn’t really

- – it doesn’t make any 10


### sense. If you’re going to do somethi ng to 11



### actually solve a problem, then try to do 12


### something to solve a problem. But, you know, if 13


### you do something to fool people into thinking 14


### you’re trying to solve a problem but you’re not 15


### really trying to solve the problem, that doesn’t 16



### seem to make any sense. 17



### That’s all I want to say. 18



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you very much, 19


### Carl. And you can leave since we didn’t plan

– - 20



### thank you. 21


### Amanda Rones. Hi, Amanda. If you could, 22349

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### spell your name for the court reporter. 1



### MS. RONES: So it’s Amanda, A

- m

- a

- n

- d

- a, 2


### and Rones is spelled R

- o

- n

- e

- s. 3



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 4



### MS. RONES: So first I wanted to thank 5


### you very much for this opportunity to speak and 6


### thank the EPA for bringing forward the Clean 7



### Power Plan. I speak today as a student, a 8



### sophomore of biology at William & Mary, who is 9


### just now grappling with this responsibility of my 10


### generation to address this looming catastrophe 11



### that we have inherited. 12


### I speak as a sister whose brother suffers 13


### so badly with allergies that when he was tested, 14



### he had shots up and down both of his arms and 15



### across his back. The tests concluded that 16


### basically he is allergic to everything that 17


### grows. And climate change has led to a longer 18


### allergy season, leaving him with a runny nose, 19


### red eyes and coughing four months ou t of the 20



### year. 21


### I speak as a friend of those with asthma 22350

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### who are left feeling like they are breathing 1


### through a straw and have days where it is simply 2


### dangerous to go outside. I speak as a lover of 3


### our wild spaces whose most treasured memories 4



### includes sc rambling through brambles for berries, 5


### wading through ponds, catching frogs with my bare 6


### hands and then falling asleep on the ride home 7


### with jars full of bugs and grass

- stained knees. 8


### I miss seeing the loss of these wild 9


### spaces. Forests destroyed with li ghts and 10


### invasive species that spread with the increasing 11


### temperatures, lakes choked with algae and streams 12



### with dead fish, rivers filled with trash littered 13


### with plastic bags. I’m seeing the effects of 14


### green pollution and climate change. They are 15



### alread y upon us. 16


### The time for inaction is long past. The 17


### time of denial is long past. We cannot deny the 18


### effects of severe droughts, forest fires, 19


### hurricanes and coastal flooding on American 20


### communities. Nor can we deny the remaining 21



### effects of smog and ba d air quality that is 22351

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### directly caused by carbon emissions. Or the 1


### irreversible habitat and diversity loss caused by 2


### climate change. Now is the time for action. 3


### This is a global problem and it demands a global 4



### solution. 5


### America must set a strong example if we 6


### are to ask others to support in this climate 7


### fight. We are a country of innovators, explorers 8



### and leaders. So we must put forward the 9


### strongest possible Clean Power Plan we can. 10


### It is our responsibility as Americans, as 11


### community members, as hu man beings, to take a 12


### strong stand against carbon emissions for the 13


### future of our wild spaces and the health and 14


### safety of generations of Americans to come. 15



### Thank you. 16



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you, Amanda. 17



### Next we have Ann Dixon and Keith Schue. 18



### MS. DI XON: Ann, A

- n

- n, Dixon, D

- i

- x

- o

- n. 19


### I am a volunteer at Protecting Our Waters. 20


### So I thank the EPA for this historically 21


### significant proposal to reduce carbon emissions 22352

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### from power plants. The United States needs to be 1



### a leader on this issue for the sake of our own 2


### planet. To quote Stephen Colbert, “The United 3


### States emits more CO2 per capita than the 4


### European Union and China combined. Just think 5



### what those emission numbers would be if America 6


### still made anything.” 7


### There is plenty of wide

- ranging supp ort, 8


### including support from businesses, for reducing 9


### emissions. Reducing emissions of course will 10


### address climate change. The National Hockey 11


### League Commissioner Gary Bettman wrote a letter 12


### accompanying the league sustainability report 13


### released in July. “As a business, we rely on 14


### fresh water to make our ice, on energy to fuel 15


### our operations and on healthy communities for our 16


### athletes, employees and fans to live, work and 17


### play. To continue to stage world

- class outdoor 18


### hockey events, we need winter weathe r. Our sport 19


### can trace its roots to frozen freshwater ponds, 20


### to cold climates. Major environmental challenges 21


### such as climate change and fresh water scarcity 22353

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### affect opportunities for hockey players of all 1



### ages to learn and play the game outdoors.” 2



### The R isky Business Project at 3


### riskybusiness.org is co

- chaired by Michael 4


### Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York City. 5


### Risky Business hired the Rhodium Group, an 6


### economic research company that analyzes 7


### disruptive global trends to write a report about 8



### economic risks of climate change. Scientists and 9


### economists worked on this report with Risk 10


### Management Solutions. Risk Management Solutions 11


### is the largest catastrophic modeling company. 12


### This report analyzes economic costs for 13


### all regions of the U.S. Eighty

- eigh t percent of 14


### the population of the Northeast region where I 15


### live is in coastal counties. And sixty

- eight 16


### percent of the regions most domestic product is 17


### generated in these counties. “As a result of 18



### much of the reasons residential, commercial and 19


### energy i nfrastructure is also at or near sea 20


### level, making these assets particularly 21


### vulnerable to climate impacts. Within the next 22354

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### 15 years, higher sea levels combined with storm 1


### surge will likely increase the average annual 2



### cost of coastal storms along the east ern seaboard 3


### and the Gulf of Mexico by 2 billion to 4


### $3.5 billion. Adding the potential changes in 5


### hurricane activity, the likely increase in 6



### average annual losses goes up to about 7.3 7


### billion, bringing the total annual price tag for 8



### hurricanes and other coastal storms to 9


### $35 billion.” 10



### This is theoretical information, but 11


### climate change is affecting our economy right 12


### now. Droughts are exacerbated by climate change. 13


### According to David Pierson’s July 26 th 

### L.A. Times 14



### article, because California has had a three

- year 15


### drought, farms have desperately hired 16


### professionals to drill even deeper for water. By 17


### the end of June, Tulare County, California, had 18


### given out 874 well permits, which is 44 more than 19



### all of last year. 20



### The U.C. Davis Center for Watershed 21



### Scientists estimated that there would be 22355

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### $1 million in lost revenue and 500 million in 1


### additional pumping costs this year. California 2


### farmers are responsible for roughly half of the 3


### nation’s fruit, nuts and vegetables. 4



### I want us to look for a much large r 5


### carbon emission reduction goal of 35

- 40 percent 6



### below 2005 levels in 2020, rather than the 7



### current EPA plan of 30 percent. The plan for 8


### Pennsylvania, my home state, was to transfer some 9


### electric generation from coal

- fired power plants 10



### to natural gas com bined cycle plants. 11


### I will say, I am flabbergasted by this. 12


### I mean, according to NASA scientists Drew 13


### Shindell, methane is 105 times more potent to 14



### greenhouse gas than carbon over a twenty

- year 15


### time frame. Methane of course is release by 16


### fracking, and fracking gas is will power these 17


### coming ice

- melt events. 18


### Fracking is causing serious illness and 19


### suffering right now. And as a result of air and 20


### water contamination, people have nose bleeds, 21


### hair loss, skin lesions and migraines. Farm 22356

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### animals have di ed. 6,085 individuals and 1


### families nationwide have been directly negatively 2


### affected by fracking. This number is from the 3



### List of the Harmed, which shows documented cases 4



### and was last updated on June 7 th 

### . You can google 5


### the List of the Harmed and you wi ll find it. 6



### So fortunately

– - so also natural gases 7


### uses millions of gallons of water for fracking

-- 8



### I can see that I’m done. So it’s ironic that, 9



### you know

-- 10



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: If you could

-- and if 11


### you have the rest of your testimony in writing, 12


### if yo u could give it to the registration desk, 13



### that would be great. 14



### Thank you very much. 15


### Keith, if you could spell your

– - 16



### MR. SCHUE: It’s K

- e

- i

- t

- h, 17



### S

- c

- h

- u

- e. 18



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 19


### MR. SCHUE: Good evening. My name is 20



### Keith Schue, and I’m here today on behalf of 21


### Sustainable Oswego, an organization in upstate 22357

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### New York dedicated to healthy communities and 1



### renewable energy. We look forward to the day 2


### when our nation is no longer dependent on a 3


### dwindling supply of fossil fuels that require 4



### extreme means of extraction

– - blowing up 5


### mountains for coal or shattering bedrock for gas. 6


### We would love to tell you that we think 7



### this Clean Power Plan is a bold initiative with 8


### strong measures to tackle the serious problem of 9


### climate change. 10



### Unfortunately, w e can’t do that. It’s 11


### advertised 30 percent goal falls far short of the 12


### President’s Copenhagen pledge for a 42 percent 13


### reduction in U.S. emissions by 2030 and 14



### 83 percent by 2050. The rule looks backwards to 15


### 2005 to take credit for reductions caused by a 16



### weak economy and greater dependence on fracked 17



### gas

-- which I’ll get to in a moment

-- and it 18


### sets lukewarm targets for states, going easy on 19


### those with the greatest emissions. 20


### Disturbingly, the rule ignores the 21


### greatest opportunity for tackling climate change 22358

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### and creating jobs by essentially leaving 1



### renewables like wind and solar on the shelf. 2


### Rather than challenging states to do better than 3


### existing renewable portfolio standards, it lowers 4


### the bar, suggesting goals for some states that 5



### are actually les s than what they have already 6


### achieved today. 7


### With this testimony, I’m submitting a 8


### chart by Climate Action Tracker, which shows that 9


### this plan does not even actually come close to 10


### achieving America’s share of greenhouse gas 11


### reductions required to remain under the 2 degree 12


### Celsius temperature rise necessary to avoid the 13


### worst impacts of climate change. 14


### Another problem is that reduction targets 15


### for each state are measured per unit of energy 16


### meaning pounds of CO2 per megawatt hour. Like a 17



### diet that limits calories per cookie, but not the 18


### number of cookies, this won’t work in the long 19



### run because it allows emissions to rise as the 20



### demand for power goes up. 21



### We are also concerned about 22359

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### implementation. The rule relies on states to 1


### interpret targets, invent their own programs and 2


### enforce them, including states which are 3


### dominated by the absurd politics of climate 4


### change denial. Thus, the rule invites weak 5


### targets to be further watered down or simply 6


### ignored. 7


### Despite these shortcomings, we understand 8



### that it may be desirable, especially in today’s 9


### political climate, to at least think of this rule 10



### as a “good start” and maybe a baby step, but at 11


### least one step in the right direction. We would 12


### prefer to look at it way that too, but honestly 13



### we can’t. And the r eason we can’t is because 14


### this proposed rule injects adrenalin into the 15


### fundamentally flawed notion that natural gas is a 16



### clean source of energy. 17


### Right now in New York, concerned 18



### families, doctors, nurses and scientists are 19


### engaged in an epic battle again st an industry 20



### that wants to frack our state and build the 21


### infrastructure for long

- term dependency on 22360

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### fracked gas. We have seen our friends in 1


### neighboring Pennsylvania get sick; we have read 2


### the reports of contaminated wells and air 3


### pollution; we have wit nessed the damage to roads, 4


### property and communities caused by the ruinous 5



### boom

- bust cycle of this industry. 6


### We also know that when you consider 7


### lifecycle emissions, not just carbon dioxide but 8


### also methane lost during the production, 9


### processing and trans mission. When you consider 10


### those things, you find out that natural gas is 11


### not any better than coal from the standpoint of 12


### climate change. 13


### As explicitly stated in Building Block 14



### Number 2 and also allowed in Number 3, the effect 15


### and the intent of this plan is to accelerate the 16


### use of fracked gas and facilitate the development 17



### of gas

- fired power plants. That’s a huge problem 18



### for us. 19


### Even if the EPA eventually considered 20


### separate rules for methane, this plan for power 21


### plants is defective because it would have states 22361

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### and utilities make decisions about electricity 1


### based on one thing only; carbon dioxide emissions 2



### from combustion. And that will lead to bad 3


### decisions. Contrary to how it’s been advertised 4


### and how it’s predicted to increase the amount of 5



### elec tricity generation from fracked gas in 2020 6


### by nearly ten times the meager boost it’s going 7


### to give to renewables, and it would have almost 8



### no effect on the amount of renewables in the 9



### country by 2030. 10


### Perhaps the most damaging, by 11


### accelerating investment s in fracked gas right 12


### now, the plan could tip the scales towards fossil 13



### fuels for decades to come. Once new gas

- fired 14


### plants are in operation, there will be less 15



### incentives for utilities to reinvest in 16


### renewables since the massive capital outlay for 17



### gas infrastructure will have already occurred. 18


### For the record, I am submitting a 19


### compendium of fully

- cited reports, studies and 20


### articles compiled by Concerned Health 21



### Professionals of New York, which describe the 22362

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### risks and harms of fracking, including its impa ct 1


### on climate change. 2


### Simply put, juggling between fossil fuels 3


### will not achieve the big changes necessary to 4


### save ourselves from climate catastrophe. 5


### Switching from coal to gas is, at best, a move 6


### sideways at a time when we urgently need to move 7



### forward

. 8


### We urge the EPA to replace this rule with 9


### one that sets aggressive targets for the 10



### advancement of zero

- emission sources of energy, 11


### including renewables powered by wind, water and 12


### sunlight. The bottom line is that we will not be 13



### able to solve climate cr isis as long as most of 14


### our energy still comes from fossil fuels. 15


### We have the ingenuity and we have the 16


### moral imperative to do the right by future 17


### generations who will inherit this Earth. What we 18


### need now is leadership. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Th ank you very much, 21


### Keith. Please, if you could, give it to the 22363

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### registration desk right along with your name, 1


### they have you on the list. 2


### Rick Nunno, only one person. 3


### I’m sorry, Rick. If you could, spell 4



### your name for the court reporter. 5



### MR. NUNNO: I t’s Rick or Richard Nunno, 6



### N

- u

- n

- n

- o. 7


### The acoustics are a little bit echoey. 8


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: I apologize. 9



### MR. NUNNO: I am a member of the board of 10


### the DC Chapter of the Sierra Club. We advocate 11


### for progressive change on a wide range of local 12



### issues affecting the Washington, DC, community. 13


### These include increasing energy conservation and 14


### promoting renewable sources of energy in DC, 15


### supporting the National Sierra Club’s Beyond Coal 16


### Campaign, supporting weatherization of homes and 17


### buildings and promoti ng legislation for smart 18


### energy policy. 19


### We also have extensive efforts underway 20


### in the areas of transportation and smart growth, 21


### zero waste legislation and policy, environmental 22364

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### justice and lowering the carbon footprints of 1



### individual citizens. 2



### Our Chapt er and our Club as a whole 3


### support of the EPA’s efforts in general to 4


### regulate gases that contribute to climate change, 5


### and in particular to its Clean Power Plan. 6


### As the most urban Sierra Club chapter in 7


### the nation, our constituents are exposed to the 8



### ha rmful health effects of dirty energy more so 9



### than most other state

- based chapters. We are 10


### acutely aware of the risks of failing to reduce 11


### the nation’s and the world’s carbon output in 12


### terms of environmental degradation and increasing 13



### environmental catastr ophes. 14



### Power plants account for 40 percent of 15


### the carbon pollution in the United States, and 16



### most urban dwellers live in areas where the air 17


### is unsafe to breathe, making the Clean Power Plan 18


### a critical step to reduce those risks. 19


### The plan will prevent th ousands of asthma 20


### cases and premature deaths annually and will 21


### drive innovation in clean energy sources, growing 22365

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### the economy and creating jobs. 1


### From the soot and smog reductions alone, 2



### each dollar invested in the Plan will net 3



### Americans seven dollars in h ealth benefits. So 4


### really, we can’t afford not to support this 5


### regulation of carbon pollution. 6


### While some states like West Virginia have 7



### a long way to go to meet the proposed standard, 8


### they will have a full decade before they would 9



### have to show progress and initial improvements 10


### will be far easier for a state like West Virginia 11



### than for other states that have already made 12


### progress, so it’s definitely an improvement. 13



### We embrace the idea that the Plan is 14


### designed to shift the nation away from coal. And 15



### we oppose the idea of ramping up the coal 16


### industry for export to China and India, and the 17


### vast majority of Americans agree with us. 18



### Indeed the proposed plan does not go far 19


### enough in protecting the health and the front

20


### line communities that are exposed to th e hazards 21


### of coal mining and burning, but it is a good 22366

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### first step towards our ultimate goals. 1



### To repeat the words from Senator Markey’s 2



### speech at yesterday’s rally, “You can’t preach 3



### temperance from a barstool,” to the rest of the 4


### world on climate change. We need to wean off of 5


### coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear energy, and 6


### ramp up our use of renewables along with 7


### improving our energy efficiency by orders of 8


### magnitude to forestall a climate crisis. It is 9


### only fair to future generations to act 10


### responsibly now. 11



### If we don’t take action at the national 12


### level, it will be impossible to convince other 13



### nations to do so. The time is far overdue to end 14


### the corporate control of our energy policy and to 15



### take actions in the best interest of our citizens 16



### of today and in the future. 17


### Thank you for the opportunity to share my 18



### views. 19



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you very much. 20



### Next we have two people Dale Louda and 21


### Tonya Winders. Thank you. If you could, spell 22367

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### your name before you start your testimony. 1


### You go first

-- 2



### MR. LOUDA: Hello. I’m Dale Louda, 3



### D

- a

- l

- e, L

- o

- u

- d

- a. 4



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. And you can 5


### give your testimony, and then Tonya can. 6


### MR. LOUDA: Good evening. My name is 7



### Dale Louda, the Executive Director of the CHP 8



### Association. 9



### I would f irst like to tell you a bit 10


### about CHPA and why combining heat and power is a 11


### critical energy source for the United States. 12


### And then I would like to present some preliminary 13



### recommendations. 14



### The CHP Association is a non

- profit trade 15


### association represen ting diverse manufacturers, 16


### suppliers and developers of CHP systems to 17


### promote the growth of clean, efficient local 18


### energy generation in the United States. Since 19


### 1999, CHPA has been the leading voice of the CHP 20


### industry in the United States. CHPA’s missi on is 21


### to increase deployment of combined heat and power 22368

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### and waste energy recovery systems to benefit the 1


### environment and the economy. 2


### Our members include Caterpillar, General 3


### Electric, Rolls Royce, Southern California Gas, 4


### Capstone Turbines, Chevron, Nati onal Grid, 5


### Cummins, Washington Gas Energy Systems, Broad 6



### USA, and more than 20 other manufacturers, users, 7


### consultants, financiers, and supporters of CHP. 8


### Combined heat and power is the 9


### simultaneous generation of electricity and useful 10



### thermal energy. Th ese efficient systems recover 11


### heat that normally would be wasted in an 12


### electricity generating unit, and save the fuel 13


### that would otherwise be used to produce heat or 14


### steam in a separate unit. As a result, CHP 15


### systems are capable of reaching overall 16



### effici encies of 60 to 80 percent. 17


### There is approximately 82 gigawatts of 18


### CHP installed in the U.S., accounting for 19


### 12 percent of the U.S. electricity generation. 20


### Each year, this installed capacity decreases 21


### energy use by almost 1.9 quadrillion BTUs, and 22369

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### avoid s the release of over 248 million metric 1


### tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. 2


### CHP technologies offer: one, improved 3


### quality; two, reduced energy consumption; and 4


### three, improved grid reliability. 5



### Because of these benefits, in 2012 6



### President Ob ama issued an Executive Order calling 7


### for 40 gigawatts of new CHP capacity by 2020. 8



### The Emission Guidelines could be a critical 9


### component in meeting this goal, if modified as 10



### suggested here. 11



### First of all, CHPA would like to 12


### acknowledge EPA’s important po sitive discussion 13


### of CHP. EPA cites CHP as a potential way for 14


### large energy users to increase energy efficiency, 15



### as a tool that states can use to reduce pressure 16


### on the grid and increase reliability, and as a 17


### potential component of approvable state energy 18


### efficiency resource standards. 19



### CHPA shares EPA’s goal to encourage 20


### efficiency and reduce emission. We therefore 21


### present the following recommendations to make the 22370

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### proposed Emission Guidelines even stronger: 1


### These positive attributes demonstrate 2



### that EPA should ensure that the Emission 3


### Guideline does not inadvertently reduce the use 4


### of CHP by exempting facilities that utilize 5


### efficient CHP from being affected EGUs. 6


### The importance of such an exemption is 7



### demonstrated by EPA’s treatment of CHP as part of 8



### t he BSER. Under block two, EPA presumes that a 9


### state can and should redispatch from steam 10


### generating units

-- including those utilizing CHP 11



### -- to existing natural gas combined cycle 12



### facilities, even if those facilities do not 13



### utilize CHP. However, CHP is often installed for 14


### the host’s industrial process and is not a 15


### dispatchable resource like an EGU. Reduction of 16


### electric output at an affective EGU with CHP will 17


### more likely result in fossil fuel combustion at 18


### both the facility and at the NGCC facility, an d 19



### therefore increase emissions overall. EPA’s 20


### building block two should not assume redispatch 21



### from CHP to NGCC, and EPA should not consider 22371

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### efficient CHP facilities affected EGUs to begin 1



### with. 2


### In addition to ensuring that the Emission 3



### Guideline does not inappropriately discourage the 4


### use of CHP, EPA should provide guidance to the 5



### states that new CHP can serve as an effective 6



### inside

- the

- fence emission reduction strategy. 7


### The CHP Association commends EPA for taking a 8


### step in the right direction by proposin g that 66 9


### to 100 percent of a CHP facility’s useful thermal 10


### output can be used in calculating a facility’s 11



### emission rate. Because both electric and useful 12


### thermal power provide productive energy services, 13



### EPA should treat useful thermal energy on par 14



### with electric energy and provide 100 percent 15



### credit. 16


### Finally, EPA is taking comments on 17


### whether CHP approaches warrant consideration as a 18


### potential way to avoid affected EGU emissions. 19



### As with other methods of emission reduction EPA 20



### has considered, such as e nergy efficiency, 21



### installation of new industrial Combined Heat and 22372

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### Power will reduce the utilization of existing 1


### fossil fuel fired generation and, therefore, will 2



### reduce emissions from affected EGUs. EPA should 3


### clearly signal states that such new CHP can b e 4



### considered an end

- use energy efficiency measure. 5


### We thank the EPA for this opportunity to 6


### discuss the importance of CHP and will be 7


### providing additional written comments. 8



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 9



### MS. WINDERS: Thank you, and good 10


### evening. My nam e is Tonya Winders, T

- o

- n

- y

- a, 11



### W

- i

- n

- d

- e

- r

- s. And I am the President and CEO of 12



### Allergy & Asthma Network. 13



### Allergy & Asthma Network Mothers of 14


### Asthmatics is a leading grassroots of patient 15


### advocacy organization dedicated to ending the 16



### needless death an d suffering due to asthma, 17


### allergies and related conditions. 18


### During the past 29 years, AANMA has 19


### worked alongside hundreds of thousands of 20


### patients, caregivers and healthcare professionals 21


### to achieve optimal health outcomes for patients 22373

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### with these conditi ons. 1


### AANMA appreciates the opportunity to 2


### provide comments to EPA regarding carbon 3


### pollution and lessening the burden on the greater 4


### than 26 million Americans whose lungs are 5


### affected by asthma. We trust our comments will 6



### assist in their deliberation on this important 7



### matter. 8



### AANMA urges the EPA to adopt standards 9


### protecting public health and reducing the real 10


### threats climate change poses today and for 11


### generations to come. 12



### First and foremost, as the mother of five 13


### children, I am personally concerned abo ut my own 14


### children’s health. My children love to play 15



### outdoors, and I encourage them to do so. 16



### However, I am concerned about the long

- term 17


### future they face with increased pollution and 18



### hotter summer days. In fact, my 11

- year

- old 19



### daughter, Katelyn, has a sthma so we watch the 20


### weather forecasts and air pollution reports with 21


### great interest. On days with the worst air 22374

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### quality, she often stays indoors and must be more 1


### vigilant about carrying her medication with her 2


### in the event of an emergency. 3



### Asthma is a chronic disease affecting 4



### more than seven million children in the U.S. 5


### Every day in our country, nine or ten people die 6



### from asthma. To many people, these are nameless 7


### statistics, but to AANMA these are family 8


### members, names like Christopher Ledford, Kris sy 9


### Taylor and Benjamin Buckley. 10


### Studies clearly demonstrate asthma is a 11


### complex disease with multiple causes and 12


### contributing factors. Among those factors, the 13



### level of CO2 emissions and its effects on 14


### respiratory health are most important. In fact, 15



### nit rogen oxides and sulfur dioxide irritate the 16


### lungs, trigger asthma exacerbations and increase 17


### the risk of hospitalizations and emergency room 18



### visits. 19



### Secondly, we need the Clean Power Plan to 20


### protect public health. Power plant pollution 21


### makes people sick and is proven to cut lives 22375

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### short. Steps to cut carbon pollution will also 1


### impact other pollutants and reduce the burden of 2


### air pollution today and tomorrow. In fact, 3


### research shows reducing carbon pollution in 4


### accordance with the plan would reduce 100,0 00 5



### asthma attacks in 2020 and 150,000 asthma attacks 6



### in 2030. 7



### EPA must take action because climate 8


### change poses real threats, including increased 9



### heat, drought and extreme weather events. The 10


### Clean Power Plan is flexible and encourages 11



### states to use effe ctive tools to reduce carbon 12


### pollution. State leaders should be able to craft 13


### an approach to reduce pollution and meet the 14



### goals set forth. 15



### Allergy and Asthma Network stands before 16


### you today representing one thing: patients’ best 17



### interests. We seek no c ommercial benefit nor 18


### have further ulterior motives. We provide these 19



### comments to help EPA adopt the strongest 20


### standards in the Clean Power Plan so that my 21



### children and millions like them will have a 22376

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### brighter, healthier future. 1



### Thank you. 2



### MR. TSIRIGOT IS: Thank you, Tonya. 3



### Sheila Holman and Anna Prados. 4


### MS. HOLMAN: Good evening. My name is 5


### Sheila Holman, spelled S

- h

- e

- i

- l

- a, H

- o

- l

- m

- a

- n. 6



### I am the Director of the Division of Air 7


### Quality in the North Carolina Department of 8



### Environment and Natural Re sources, or NCDENR, and 9


### I am here to provide comments on behalf of 10



### NCDENR. 11


### NCDENR believes EPA’s proposed rules 12


### under Section 111(d) to reduce greenhouse gases 13


### from both power plants and beyond power plants is 14


### legally and technically flawed. The EPA appe ars 15


### to recognize the legal vulnerabilities by 16


### proposing to make each of the building blocks 17


### independently severable, as if realizing they 18


### will be vacated by the Court during judicial 19



### review. 20


### The issue that I wanted to begin with is 21



### limited State resources . If this rule is 22377

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### finalized in its current form, states will be 1


### immediately required to amend not only their 2


### state air programs but will be required to 3


### fundamentally restructure their State’s entire 4


### energy generation and delivery system. This 5


### significant undertaking will run parallel with 6


### the judicial review of the rulemaking. 7



### States have been through several 8


### exercises where EPA’s shaky legal interpretations 9


### have resulted in states taking actions to satisfy 10


### a federal rule that is later determined by the 11


### Courts to be illegal. Look no further than the 12


### rulemaking such as the Clean Air Interstate Rule, 13


### the Clean Air Mercury Rule and most recently the 14


### GHG PSD Tailoring Rule. 15



### This final rule, whatever form it 16


### ultimately takes, should not require states to 17



### be gin taking action until the completion of the 18


### judicial review. This is to preserve the state’s 19



### limited resources and ensure that actions taken 20


### in response to the EPA rule will not be for 21


### naught. NCDENR is calling this approach a legal 22378

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### trigger deadline, a nd we urge the EPA to respect 1


### their state partners and include this provision 2


### in any final rule. 3


### With respect to the legal issues, I will 4


### hit upon a few of our concerns. First, EPA’s 5


### current proposal to regulate new fossil

- fuel 6


### fired electric utility uni ts under Section 111(b) 7


### of the Act is based on their finding that carbon 8


### capture and sequestration, CCS, has been 9


### adequately demonstrated. CCS has, in fact, not 10



### been adequately demonstrated. The legal 11


### implication is critical since EPA is barred from 12


### impl ementing an existing source rule under 111(d) 13


### without having successfully promulgated a new 14



### source standard under 111(b). 15


### Next, Section 111(d) prohibits the 16


### overlap of 111(d) with two other programs in the 17


### Act. Section 111(d) prohibits the EPA from 18



### regul ating pollutants from source categories 19


### regulated under Section 112 as well as pollutants 20



### regulated under that program. In 2011, EPA 21


### issued regulations under Section 112 applicable 22379

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### to fossil fuel

- fired electric generating units 1


### thereby foreclosing regulat ion under Section 2



### 111(d). 3



### In cases where the EPA does have the 4


### authority to establish emission guidelines under 5


### Section 111(d), that authority is limited. EPA 6



### cannot establish a unit

- specific guideline that 7


### describes what control technologies have been 8


### demonstrated. The plain language of the Act as 9



### well as the legal precedent precludes EPA and 10


### states from implementing building blocks 2, 3, 11



### and 4

- – all designed to require emission 12



### reductions outside of the affected emissions 13



### unit. 14


### Finally, on an equit able issue, EPA has 15



### defined reductions on a state

- by

- state basis. 16


### The basis was the existing power generation 17


### technologies and policies unique to each state. 18


### For example, some states relied more on nuclear 19


### generation, while others relied more on coal 20



### com bustion for their generation. EPA applies 21


### those building blocks to this generation, and the 22380

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### result is that

- – since EPA based the potential 1


### improvements on the current energy portfolio, the 2


### resultant rule has the outcome of requiring the 3



### smallest greenhou se gas reductions from states 4


### with the highest coal usage. This outcome is a 5


### direct result of EPA’s use of source categories 6


### for compliance other than that regulated by the 7


### proposed standard, that is the coal

- fired power 8



### plants. 9



### Further, EPA’s selection of 2012 as the 10


### baseline appears to penalize those states like 11


### North Carolina that took early action to reduce 12


### greenhouse gas emissions. 13



### NCDENR believes the Clean Air Act Section 14



### 111(d) for coal

- fired power plants should simply 15



### apply to each coal

- fired pow er plant taking into 16



### account the statutory factors such as the 17


### remaining useful life of the unit to determine 18



### what the emission standard should be. 19


### NCDENR plans to submit more substantive 20


### written comments by the comment deadline. I 21



### thank you for the oppo rtunity to provide comments 22381

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### today. 1


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you, Sheila. 2



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you get the 3



### sound better? 4



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: The sound on the 5



### speaker? 6



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. 7



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Not to my knowledge, 8



### it’s kind of

– - 9



### AU DIENCE: It’s very echoey. 10



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: It’s very echoey? 11



### AUDIENCE: Yes. 12



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: I’m sorry. I don’t hear 13


### the echo. That one is the problem. I can’t 14


### unplug this one. Do we need to use the 15


### microphone in order

– 16



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. 17



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: For

– 18



### AUDIENCE: It’s fine. 19


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: It’s fine? If they 20


### don’t use the microphone, is that okay, If it’s 21



### too much of an echo with it? 22382

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### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can try. 1


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Should we try without 2


### the microphone ? I apologize

- – I can’t hear the 3



### echo from

- – you’re not going to

– - 4



### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, let’s put

– 5



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Yeah, maybe further 6



### away. 7



### AUDIENCE: Can you hear me? 8


### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (unintelligible). 9



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: I can hear you but

- – 10



### thank you. If you could, spell your name. 11



### MS. PRADOS: Ana, A

- n

- a, Prados, 12



### P

- r

- a

- d

- o

- s. 13



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 14



### MS. PRADOS: So thank you for the 15


### opportunity to comment today. My name is Dr. Ana 16


### Prados. I work at the University of M aryland, 17


### Baltimore County. I am a scientist with 18


### expertise in air quality and climate change, and 19


### I also have expertise in environmental policy. 20


### So some of what I am going to talk about 21


### today, I bring with me based on a study which I 22383

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### have here

- – I broug ht some copies for you. I 1


### conducted it at the University of Maryland, 2


### College Park, School of Public Policy. It was 3


### part of a course. I did a project in the spring 4


### of 2013, and the name of the project was 5


### “Greenhouse Gas Reduction in Maryland: New State

6


### Level Strategies for Changing Times”. And it is 7


### very much in line with what you did. It outlines 8


### state level strategies and other issues, and I 9


### will just touch on a couple of them. 10


### However, what I’m talking about today are 11


### just my own opinions, not the opinions of 12


### University of Maryland, Baltimore County, where I 13


### work or the University of Maryland, College Park. 14


### So I personally fully support this rule. 15


### I applaud your efforts despite the continued 16


### opposition by what is an alarming percentage of 17



### members of Congress. I also think the rule could 18


### be a little more aggressive and include 19



### additional elements that will serve both to the 20


### goals of reducing greenhouse gases while giving 21


### states more flexibility. 22384

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### I think the rule could be closer to a 1



### 40 percent reduction in 2030, and that’s what the 2



### science tells is the direction we should move in. 3


### So there is three things that kind of

– - I had 4


### identified as potential amendments. 5


### One of them is to include other large 6


### sources. And essentially, we have a timeli ne 7


### that phases in other large sources in addition to 8


### the electrical generating sector. California is 9


### already doing this. In fact, I believe it has 10



### worked for them. It’s an economy

- wide cap and 11



### trade system that they have. And partly because 12



### I think tha t as the U.S. moves away from coal, 13


### these other sources including natural gas are 14


### going to become a larger part of the fraction of 15



### the overall greenhouse gas from coal. 16


### I think that the rule should deemphasize 17


### or eliminate the second and third building bl ocks 18


### only as they pertain to carbon sequestration and 19


### new natural gas. Carbon sequestration is not

- – 20


### as she also communicated, is really

-- it’s not 21



### established. It’s not safe. It’s not an 22385

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### alternative. Natural gas is, after all, another 1



### greenhouse gas . And, you know, something that I 2


### can rely on in my work, and I do

– it’s kind of a 3


### long story, and I won’t give you all the details. 4


### I work with a lot of state agencies. I monitor 5


### air pollution. We hear all of this concern all 6



### of the time now about na tural gas pollution. So 7


### it seems to me that that rule really needs to be 8


### deemphasized and its impacts on other pollutants, 9



### as you all know. 10



### So I think it makes more sense for states 11


### to focus their investments on energy efficiency 12



### and energy renewables as opposed to other fossil 13



### fuels. 14


### And finally, and this is something that 15


### is discussed in this study, something that EPA 16


### might consider is developing a framework that 17


### encourages linkage

- – encourages linking

-- 18


### linkage among existing cap and trade system s. I 19


### think this would actually give states more 20


### flexibility. And as you know, California has 21


### already linked their cap and trade to Quebec. 22386

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### And actually Resources for the Future did a study 1



### on how California could link theirs to RGGI. I 2



### didn’t see menti on of this in the Rule, but I 3


### could have missed it. So it’s something to look 4


### at, outlined in the RGGI system. So that’s what 5



### I have. 6



### Thanks. 7



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. Thank you 8


### very much. Okay. We will take a five

- minute 9



### break. 10



### (Brief recess .) 11


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Is something wrong with 12


### the microphone? 13


### UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I’m getting a buzz, 14



### so we’ll see. 15


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: We will see how it goes. 16


### We are back again. The next couple of 17


### folks, Linda Silversmith and Tyson Slocum. 18



### You’re firs t Linda. If you could, spell 19


### your name and give your testimony. 20



### MS. SILVERSMITH: Linda Silversmith. I 21



### represent the League of Women Voters of Maryland. 22387

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### I am Linda Silversmith of Rockville, 1


### Maryland, and I’m representing the League of 2



### Women Voters of M aryland and the League of Women 3



### Voters of Montgomery County Maryland. 4


### I have been a member of the League in 5


### four different states for 44 years, and I worked 6



### with the first administrator of the EPA and also 7


### a person who awoke to the need for actively 8


### caring about the Earth and the environment on 9


### Earth Day, 1970. And this timing came after a 10


### vacation that included driving at age 10 on his 11


### family vacation through the factory caused 12


### visible smog formerly found in Pittsburgh and 13


### after seeing photos of an earlier smoggy London, 14


### England. But before I developed asthma, while my 15


### two siblings developed other immunological 16


### diseases, and before I learned key elements about 17


### ecology as a science while preparing to teach 18


### college biology classes to non

- science majo rs, 19


### that included an environmental component. 20


### Regarding the urgency. In retrospect, it 21



### is sad that the United States did not have the 22388

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### foresight 30 years ago to schedule the steps 1


### being proposed in the 2014 Clean Power Plan. 2


### While members of the League o f Women Voters in 3


### Maryland are definitely pleased that the EPA has 4


### stepped forward with this proposal, I speak on 5


### their behalf today to urge this Administration 6



### (1) to strengthen the plan further and (2) to 7


### begin to spell out how best to set a price on 8



### car bon emissions. 9


### Indeed, in June 2014 by an overwhelming 10


### vote, League members at our biennial national 11


### convention passed a resolution supporting a price 12


### on carbon emissions that will increase in stages 13


### as part of an overall program to improve energy 14



### efficie ncy and to replace fossil fuels with 15


### renewable energy fast enough to avoid serious 16


### damage to the climate system. This resolution is 17


### in line with 15 years of League advocacy for 18


### reducing carbon dioxide emissions. 19


### Power plants, our single largest source, 20



### a ccount for 40 percent of the carbon pollution in 21


### the United States, the type of invisible 22389

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### pollution that is causing and accelerating 1


### climate change. For the sake of our children, 2


### our children’s children and future generations, 3



### we need to act now. And the United States needs 4


### to become a leader in fighting and ameliorating 5


### climate change instead of being the leader in the 6


### highest energy use per person in the world. 7


### It may take a special kind of courage by 8


### both industrialists and citizens to put aside 9



### short

- term profits and convenience for long

- term 10


### good. Scientific calculations show that we 11


### cannot afford to use up all of the remaining 12


### fossil fuel supplies on Earth without endangering 13


### Earth’s livability. The third National Climate 14


### Assessment report, which was released in May of 15


### 2014, stresses that the United States is already 16


### undergoing damages from climate change such as 17


### disappearing shorelines and decreases in the 18


### numbers of certain plants and animal species, but 19


### not as dramatic as the impending disappear ance of 20


### whole Pacific islands, but scary nonetheless. 21


### For those who have seen the movie Chasing Ice, it 22390

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### also provides some dramatic examples of climate 1



### change. 2


### Moving to economics. While early 3


### economists did not recognize that the prices of 4



### goods and ser vices need to include the costs of 5


### using up resources in the manufacturing process 6


### and the costs of cleaning up any pollution caused 7


### by their use. Surely it is time for the human 8



### world to include both of these factors in 9


### pricing. There are studies that s how that the 10


### resulting price changes will be much easier to 11


### cope with than the rising costs of not addressing 12


### climate change which have been addressed in the 13



### past couple of days. 14


### To any company representatives here today 15


### or reading this statement letter , I hope you will 16



### look around and see how a number of large 17


### companies such as General Mills and National Grid 18


### have already announced plans to actively address 19


### climate change. I hope that other businesses 20


### will rapidly join in, and that all of us will 21



### focus as much as possible on choices that 22391

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### increase energy efficiency and use of renewable 1



### energy resources. The more we can do now to help 2


### mitigate climate change, the less we will have to 3


### do to adapt to climate change. 4



### Thank you. 5



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank yo u, Linda. 6


### MR. SLOCUM: Hi, I’m Tyson Slocum, 7



### T

- y

- s

- o

- n, S

- l

- o

- c

- u

- m. I direct Public 8


### Citizen’s Energy and Climate Program. 9


### For those unfamiliar with my organization, we are 10


### one of America’s largest consumer advocacy 11


### groups. We get our funding from o ur more than 12



### 350,000 consumers and members across the United 13



### States. 14


### So first thing, I just wanted to applaud 15


### the EPA officials present here today in 16


### conducting hearings in D.C. and elsewhere, we 17


### thank you for your service. I know it’s probably 18



### been a ve ry long day, and so I’m very 19


### appreciative of your effort to solicit feedback 20


### from the general public. 21



### So as a consumer group, we are very 22392

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### interested in the details of this rule because a 1


### lot has been said about them. There is a group, 2



### I’m sure you’re fam iliar with it. It’s called 3



### the Chamber of Commerce. It’s a very large 4


### industry trade association representing many 5



### multi

- national corporations. And it made a 6


### number of claims which I am very interested in, 7


### mainly that the very modest rules proffered by 8


### the EPA are going to result in crippling price 9



### increases. 10


### It’s always curious when a group like the 11



### Chamber speaks on behalf of consumers because I 12



### am a consumer advocate. And it turns out that 13


### their claims are absolutly false. We have looked 14



### at their research papers, and they are

- – they 15


### have no basis in fact. They are running what 16


### essentially amounts to a political campaign to 17



### discuss EPA rules, not on the merits of their 18


### policies, not on the details of the proposed 19


### regulation, but rather in terms o f the next 20


### electoral cycle and how demonizing the rules 21


### might gain an advantage to one particular party 22393

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### or another. 1



### And that’s unfortunate. I welcome robust 2



### debate that’s based on facts. And it’s 3


### unfortunate that very powerful interests are 4


### failing to do that, and I think that folks ought 5


### to hold them accountable for doing it. We are 6


### trying to do as much. 7



### So as a consumer group, when we look at 8



### these rules they are remarkably modest. 9


### Essentially, what your rules are doing is putting 10


### into regulation what is essentially already 11


### happening in the status quo. We are seeing a 12



### shift in

– - away from coal and towards 13


### alternative fuels, not because of EPA regulations 14



### but because of market fundamentals, because of 15


### increasing costs for coal, because the declini ng 16



### cost of renewables, because of flat line in 17


### consumption. 18


### A generation ago, the United States was 19


### growing the electric power sector in terms of 20


### demand by 7 percent a year. We are now growing 21


### at .7 percent a year. We are seeing essentially 22394

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### a flat

- linin g demand growth and that offers ample 1


### opportunities for renewable energy and continued 2


### energy efficiency to meet the emission targets as 3


### laid out in your clean energy plan. 4


### So despite the fact that the charges that 5


### this rule is not going to result in hi gher prices 6



### for consumers, I do think that there are certain 7


### things, speaking as a consumer advocacy group, 8



### that the EPA could demand that states adopt as 9


### part of the compliance plan to incorporate 10


### expanded consumer protections in the electricity 11



### sector. That would not only protect working 12


### families, but also help blunt these absurd 13



### attacks from folks like the Chamber of Commerce. 14


### So one of the things that the EPA could 15


### do is require that states in their implementation 16


### plans adopt what’s known as interve ner funding 17


### programs at the Public Utility Commission. One 18


### such program exists in the State of California. 19


### This is where the Public Utility Commission 20


### compensates public interest groups that have 21


### demonstrated that they are operating on behalf of 22395

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### consumer s. It compensates them for the costs 1


### associated with getting attorneys and expert 2


### witnesses before the Public Utility Commission. 3


### Sometimes the compliance programs that 4


### are going to be adopted by various state PUCs are 5


### going to be technical in nature, an d it would be 6


### helpful to have intervener funding and it would 7


### be very good to have the EPA requiring that as 8


### part of the implementation requirements. 9


### In addition, requiring that there be 10


### stakeholder processes that are binding in nature 11



### such as what we hav e in some of the regional 12


### greenhouse gas emission of states, where

-- 13



### Massachusetts for example

-- the state has a 14


### binding stakeholder process that includes 15


### consumer groups, it includes utilities, it 16



### includes state officials, it includes 17


### environmental grou ps. These stakeholder programs 18


### together work out the carrying out of the energy 19


### efficiency and renewable energy mandates. And 20



### that ensures that all stakeholders have an equal 21



### seat at the table. Note that I said that 22396

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### utilities should be there as well as consumer 1


### groups because we like everyone, all 2


### stakeholders, to participate. 3


### We need to also remember that electricity 4


### is not some sort of elective utility service, but 5



### a human

- – an essential human rights service. 6



### And so we have got to ensure that standa rds with 7


### universal service are prioritized, particularly 8



### for very low

- income consumers. 9


### Energy efficiency standards should be 10


### cost effective and demonstrate specific and 11


### verifiable energy savings. Rooftop solar 12


### requirements should be equitable. And the 13


### 6 percent credit for existing nuclear power 14


### plants should not be allowed to qualify for the 15


### state implementation plans because of the severe 16



### environmental and risks associated with nuclear 17



### power. 18


### Thank you very much for your time. 19



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Than k you. Thank you 20



### both. 21


### Next we have Jaydee Hanson and Erik 22397

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### Backus

- – Bekus (phonetic). Erik

- – is there an 1



### Erik? 2



### Go ahead Jaydee. If you can, spell your 3



### name for the court reporter. 4


### Actually, if you don’t mind, if you could 5



### to submit these to the

- - 6



### MR. HANSON: I did. 7


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Oh, you already did. 8



### These are extra? 9



### MR. HANSON: Yeah. 10



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Oh, thank you. 11



### MR. HANSON: I am Jaydee Hanson; I’m a 12


### Secretary of a multi

- national group called 13



### Caretakers for God’s Creation. And it ’s a 14



### network of the United Methodists. We are honored 15



### to be able to comment here. 16


### As Christians, we are taught by Jesus 17


### that we are to love God and to love our neighbor. 18


### Today, loving God means caring for God’s creation 19


### so that our neighbors around th e world can 20


### survive in a global

- warming world. 21



### As I mentioned, we’re a network of United 22398

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### Methodists around the world. We do not speak for 1



### the United Methodist Church, but are faithful 2


### United Methodists informed by our Church’s 3


### Discipline and our Church’s Resolutions as they 4


### speak to Caring for God’s Creation. 5


### Our Bishops from around the world five 6


### years ago issued a pastoral letter called, “God’s 7



### Renewed Creation.” This letter declared that the 8


### United States has a special responsibility as it 9



### consumes m ore than its fair share of resources 10


### and generates the most waste including carbon 11


### dioxide pollution. The bishops from the U.S. 12


### committed themselves to working to reduce this 13


### pollution, including urging the U.S. Government 14



### to do better. 15



### Caretakers of God ’s Creation include both 16


### lay and clergy members inspired by the bishop’s 17


### letter who are working to push our churches and 18


### the government to do a better job. The United 19


### Methodist Church has long been concerned about 20


### climate change. I think we’re the first 21


### protestant denomination that said it in its 22399

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### official papers, and the first time we said we 1


### needed to burn less coal in large

- scale power 2


### plants was in 1980. And at the same time, we 3


### warned that it should not replace it with nuclear 4



### power. Most recently

- - our church has a 5


### congress sort of like the U.S. Congress

- – it’s 6


### mostly a federation of people from every state 7



### with common references. 8



### We added to our Church’s law book what we 9


### call The Discipline. It said, “We strongly 10


### advocate for the priority of t he development of 11


### renewable energies. The deposits of carbon

- based 12



### resources are limited and their continuous use 13


### accelerates global warming. The use of nuclear 14


### power is no solution for avoiding CO2 emissions.” 15


### Not surprisingly, we agree with EPA 16



### Commis sioner Gina McCarthy who said in announcing 17



### the new coal

- fired power plant rules. “We have a 18


### moral obligation to act on climate.” But we are 19


### concerned that the EPA is proposing too little. 20


### The new rule does not require the nearly one 21



### thousand coal

- fired power plants to actually 22400

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### clean up their pollution, or their own ship, 1


### since power plants don’t conduct themselves. 2



### More than 60 percent of these power 3



### plants are over 40 years old. Instead, the EPA 4


### rule would have states develop their own plans 5



### that w ould not be implemented until at least 6



### 2016. 7



### The states could meet the emission 8


### targets for power plants in many ways, including 9


### upgrading old inefficient plants, switching to 10


### natural gas, improving energy efficiency 11


### elsewhere in the state and promoting r enewable 12



### energy. 13



### Unfortunately, the draft rule also 14


### declares for the first time that nuclear power is 15


### a core element of the nation’s climate policy. 16



### It pushes states to preserve old nuclear power 17


### plants, expand existing plants and subsidize 18



### nuclear power

. 19



### These pro

- nuclear provisions could 20


### undermine the growth of renewable energy in these 21


### states and help keep open old polluting coal

- 22401

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### fired power plants. 1


### The Virginia Chapter of Caretakers for 2


### God’s Creation has actively opposed the 3


### development of uranium mining in Virginia. The 4


### inclusion of nuclear power in the EPA rule will 5



### only serve to encourage those who want to open a 6


### huge uranium mine in Virginia. Unlike the arid 7


### Western United States, tailing ponds in Virginia 8


### are expected to fill rapidly with rai n water and 9


### will likely overflow in Virginia and North 10


### Carolina waters. I think that light means I’m 11


### getting to the end of my time. Okay. 12


### I will go to the last section of 13


### environmental justice. By sidestepping controls 14


### on individual polluting power pl ants, the EPA 15


### draft continues to allow those old aging plants 16


### to pollute more than they would with real 17



### controls on each plant. 18


### According to a joint study by the Harvard 19


### School of Public Health and the Syracuse 20


### University, “Carbon pollutions standards fo r 21


### existing power plants would not only help 22402

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### confront the challenge of global climate change, 1


### they would offer substantial and regional 2


### benefits by reducing power plant emissions of 3


### these major power plants by up to 27 percent. 4



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: I’m sorry to interrupt. 5


### We have your testimony, and are mindful of the 6



### time. 7



### MR. HANSON: Well, thank you very much. 8


### In short, we wish the EPA draft targeted the most 9


### polluting power plants in a more direct way, 10


### promoting renewable energy even more strongly and 11



### lef t nuclear power off the table entirely. 12


### Nonetheless, we greatly appreciate the 13


### EPA for tackling the most wrenching environmental 14


### problem of our age, namely the huge contribution 15


### fossil fuel fired power plants make to our 16


### nations CO2 pollution. 17



### Thank yo u very much. 18



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you 19


### MR. HANSON: Bless you in this difficult 20



### work. 21


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. Eric Backus. 22403

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### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Erik Backus, is there? 1



### MR. BACKUS: Yes, sir. 2



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: If you could spell your 3



### name for the cou rt reporter too, Erik. 4



### MR. BACKUS: E

- r

- i

- k Backus, Erik, first 5


### name, last name Backus, B as in boy, a

- c

- k

- u

- s. 6



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 7


### MR. BACKUS: Good evening ladies and 8


### gentlemen. Again, I am Erik Backus and I reside 9


### in Northern Virginia. This evening I am 10


### representing Lutherans Restoring Creation which 11


### is a grassroots organization supporting the 12


### Evangelical Lutheran Church of America to support 13


### creation energies. 14


### As you hear my testimony man wears many 15



### hats, but when it comes to issues of the world, 16


### it's goodness and if our world will take care of 17


### it and all we need to do is speak out through our 18



### faith and to take action. 19


### As a professional engineer and contrary 20


### to popular opinion I hold faith both in our 21


### creator as well as science to explain the 22404

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### creation and the environment. 1


### Let me begin then with a dialogue that 2


### happened many years ago between an expert in the 3


### law. And Jesus in the tenth chapter of Luke, 4



### Jesus asked, "What is written in the law? How do 5


### you read it? Answer, "Love the Lor d with all 6


### your hearts, with all your soul, with all your 7


### strength, and with all your mind; and love your 8


### neighbor as yourself. You answered correctly was 9


### his reply; do this, and you will live." This is 10


### the golden rule as the Christians have it. 11



### And we know considering all the major 12


### religions of the world and schools of philosophy 13


### the vast majority hold this precise tenet within 14


### them, that we as humanity need these rules and 15



### heed them and we are called to better serve our 16


### neighbor and to obey the order of creation and 17


### we're able to better live in harmony. 18


### So as a boy in upstate New York I can 19


### speak to the impact on this climate firsthand. I 20


### lived in New York. A village that resided right 21


### next to us with the most polluted body of water 22405

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### in the world, Onondaga Lake. 1


### Syracuse, New York, called the Salt City, 2


### because of the salt that is shipped worldwide 3


### from the ports next to this lake. But by the 4


### time I was growing up there in the '80s, you 5


### couldn't swim in the lake, you couldn't fish in 6



### the lake, yo u could barely go in while touching 7



### the water and the stink that rolled off that lake 8


### every summer, because of decades of dumping raw 9



### sewages out of Syracuse's sewer system and 10


### dumping the salty waste deposits every day at the 11



### edge of the lake. 12



### Folks on t he lake

-- so the people around 13


### it then, but even more so today, it was one of 14


### the most popular industries and all the jobs that 15


### they had are no longer there, just so you know, 16


### leaving about $450 million in costs to implement 17



### our clean up of the lake today

. 18


### I remember this firsthand experience and 19


### our failure to guard the earth leads to 20


### devastating and costly consequences. Today we 21


### are considering the EPA's proposed rule that 22406

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### affects existing power plants in the United 1



### States. Give us a chance to stem th e tide of 2


### emission of carbon, just like Onondaga Lake, 3



### where perpetual waste program management has had 4


### integral and tangible results. Our insatiable 5


### need for power is having effects on our lives. 6


### Sea levels are rising, ice shelves are breaking 7



### off, and more and more people are affected by 8


### severe weather and right here at home. 9


### As former Treasury Secretaries Ann 10



### Paulson and Robert Rubin had said, we cannot 11


### afford to repeat the failures of the past, we 12


### must learn from these costly errors in solving 13



### the p roblems at hand. 14


### This proposed clean power plan represents 15


### just that, a chance to do better. 16


### In closing, I want to go back to a place 17


### in my personal life. Two weeks ago I was with a 18


### group of faith leaders talking to U.S. Senator 19



### Mark Warner about the p roposed rule. And what he 20



### said struck me. He said we must also think about 21


### the plight and challenges for the people in 22407

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### places like southwest Virginia. To that point I 1


### agreed with him. An Army Reservist who served in 2


### Iraq, doing everything he can to help people in 3


### the third Congressional District in West 4


### Virginia. He ran and lost his primary, but had a 5


### huge impact. Why? Because he started his 6


### campaign not on the desires of the coal 7


### companies, but on the coal workers. He saw the 8


### need to give them opport unities and options for 9



### their lives and move them from the coal of the 10


### past to the future. And he made his case, and he 11


### was a person who takes risks and makes keen 12


### investments in new technologies to see a new 13



### future. 14


### To me this is all about why we are he re 15


### and to be an American, we have proven time and 16


### time again that these are people who quote the 17


### Gospels and are interested in a better world. 18


### This rule, the clean power plan sets before us 19


### such a path that will start innovation and 20


### American energy ingen uity. I pray for this rule 21



### to go forward as we come together for a more 22408

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### sustainable planet for each of us. 1



### Thank you. 2


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you, Erik. 3


### Next Sophie Golone and Eugene Trisko. 4


### And if you could spell your name for the

-- 5


### you're up first. If you can spell your name for 6



### the court reporter. 7



### MS. GOLONE: S

- o

- p

- h

- i

- e. Last name, G

8



### o

- l

- o

- n

- e. 9



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 10


### MS. GOLONE: Hello. My name is Sophie 11


### Golone and I'm a legislative assistant at 12


### Religious Action Center of Reform Judais m which 13



### advocates on behalf of the Union Reformed Judaism 14


### and denominations across America and welcoming a 15



### million reformed Jews. 16


### I thank you for the opportunity to speak 17



### today as a part of the EPA's clean power plan 18


### proposal to reduce carbon pollution fr om existing 19



### power plants. 20


### These proposed federal standards which 21


### target a key source of carbon pollution mark an 22409

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### historic step in our nation's commitment to 1


### protecting public health and averting climate 2



### change. 3


### While climate change is an immense 4



### enviro nmental, political, and economic challenge 5


### for the reformed Jewish community, climate change 6


### is a world and spiritual challenge as well. 7


### Biblical commentary reminds us that one 8


### generation goes, another comes, but the earth 9



### remains the same forever. 10



### We und erstand that as stewards of the 11


### environment we have responsibility to seek higher 12


### plans that future generations will have clean, 13



### breathable air, and a stable climate. 14


### Climate change has been linked to some of 15


### the most devastating weather events in recent 16


### memory and has contributed to millions of deaths. 17


### As reformed Jews steeped in words that 18


### collectively reminds us of our responsibility to 19



### the earth and to one another, it is incumbent 20


### upon us to respond to these disasters without 21



### delay and to work to pre vent future climate 22410

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### disasters as well. That is why when Hurricane 1



### Sandy struck the Northeast almost two years ago, 2


### the Union for Reformed Judaism swiftly 3



### established a relief fund, 80 members from our 4


### congregation and others contributed food, 5



### shelter, and clothing. 6



### We continue to feed those who have 7



### suffered more recent events in the United States 8



### and abroad. But we must also act to prevent 9



### extreme weather events. As you well know, 10


### hurricanes, droughts, wildfires and other 11



### weather

- related events are ma de more severe by 12


### rising temperatures. And as concluded in the 13


### 2013 Hygiene Report, it is extremely likely that 14



### human influence has been the dominant cause of 15


### the recently observed global warming. 16


### We appreciate that these proposed 17



### standards address the h eart of our nation’s 18


### carbon problem by targeting power plants, the 19


### country's largest source of carbon dioxide 20



### emissions. 21



### These reductions will lead to immense 22411

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### environmental and public health benefits and 1


### carbon pollution which leads to increases in 2


### respir atory illness, heart attacks, and future 3



### deaths. Moreover, communities of color, low

4



### income communities, children and older adults are 5


### disproportionately overburdened by the impacts of 6


### carbon pollution. 7



### The recent national climate assessment 8



### indicated t hat climate change is no longer a 9



### distant threat for the future, but an issue that 10


### we are already experiencing in the present. 11


### The average temperature in the United 12


### States has increased by .3 degrees to .9 degrees 13



### Fahrenheit since 1895 and most of this in crease 14


### has occurred since 1970. While a degree or two 15


### rise in temperature might seem insignificant in 16


### daily weather report, we know the tremendous and 17


### detrimental impact increasing global temperatures 18


### have on health and safety of the communities in 19



### the Un ited States and worldwide. 20



### If we do not take the necessary steps to 21


### deter climate change now, temperatures are 22412

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### projected to rise another two degrees to four 1


### degrees Fahrenheit in the next few decades. 2


### We appreciate that the flexibility of 3


### this proposal recognizes that states, cities, and 4


### businesses across the country are already taking 5


### steps to reduce emissions, to establish measures 6


### to increase energy efficiency and transition to 7



### clean energy. 8


### This clean power plan works with and 9



### builds on those effor ts to accommodate the 10



### diverse needs of each state that invests in the 11


### overall options. 12


### It is our responsibility to protect our 13


### children and future generations from the impacts 14


### of climate change. It is our responsibility to 15


### help prevent people in every r egion of this 16


### country from ever again knowing the devastation 17


### caused by wildfires, droughts, flooding, and 18


### hurricanes. It is our responsibility to cut 19


### carbon pollution and adopt strong carbon 20


### pollution standards for existing power plants 21


### under this Agency 's clean power plan proposal. 22413

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### The need for reduced emissions is ever 1



### more urgent, we need to act now. 2


### Thank you for taking this vital step 3



### towards a cleaner and healthier environment. We 4



### look forward to support the work of the EPA and 5



### the Obama adminis tration to fully implement 6


### strict carbon pollution standards for existing 7


### power plants to promote public health and combat 8


### climate change. Thank you. 9


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you, Sophie. 10


### MR. TRISKO: My name is Eugene M. Trisko, 11



### E

- u

- g

- e

- n

- e, M, as in Mic hael, Trisko, T as in 12



### Tom, r

- i

- s

- k

- o. 13


### I'm an attorney in private practice. I 14


### represented the United Mine Workers of America in 15


### Clean Air Act matters for more than 30 years. 16



### I'm here because of the UMWA’S concern 17


### with the loss of jobs due to the EPA's p roposed 18


### clean power plan. The reductions in CO2 19


### emissions of the clean power plan is equivalent 20


### to a 30 percent cut from 2005 emissions. The 21


### power plant rule is known throughout the states 22414

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### that already have reduced the CO2 emissions due 1



### to more uses such as increased natural gas use 2


### and retirement of our coal plants. 3


### The majority of states would have smaller 4


### initial reduction targets. The reductions were 5


### calculated with the true 2005 baseline. Many 6



### states will have no reductions at all due to 7



### their re cent emission cutbacks. The short time 8


### set by EPA's proposed rules, states will require 9



### more than one year to prepare steps. Many states 10


### require legislative approval, a process itself 11



### that can take a year or more. 12


### We recommend that the interim target be 13


### designed to allow greater flexibility. A course 14


### such as used and regional assist or a reasonable 15


### further progress requirement would afford greater 16


### flexibility than mathematical averaging process 17


### tied to an interim target. 18


### EPA projects that the state option will 19


### reduce U.S. coal production for electric 20


### generation by 27 percent or 228 million tons in 21


### 2020. Appalachian production is projected to 22415

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### decline by 35 percent from 140 to 91 million 1


### tons. Even larger declines are projected in the 2



### U.S. 3



### EPA foreca sts the global cost of the loss 4


### of 41 to 49 gigawatts of coal generated capacity 5


### by 2020. These retirements were in addition to 6


### 92 gigawatts total capacity shutdown between 2012 7


### and 2020 due in large part to compliance with the 8



### 2012 record. 9


### Losing 30 gi gawatts in base load capacity 10


### nearly 40 percent of the nation's coal generation 11



### fleet in 2012 raises serious concerns about 12


### future reliability of other types of plants. 13


### The reliability analysis contained in 14


### EPA's technical support document is inaccurate. 15


### It fails to account for supply assets and relies 16


### on overly optimistic assumptions about demand 17


### reductions associated with the rules of energy 18


### efficiency that will comply. 19


### Our assessment of the general impact of 20


### the clean power plan indicates a potential loss 21


### of 52,000 permanent UMWA jobs by 2020 in the 22416

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### utility, rail, and coal centers due to power 1


### plant retirements and a loss of 167,000 total 2


### throughout UMWA jobs. 3


### These direct job losses are all high

4


### paying jobs particularly in the rural communities 5



### witho ut opportunities for comparable employment. 6


### These impacts do not consider any of the plant 7



### closures and the general losses expected over the 8


### next few years due to the natural plant practice 9


### or the impacts of higher electricity and natural 10


### gas prices on oth er industries. 11


### EPA's proposals for major expansion of 12


### state energy efficiency and renewable energy 13


### programs interfere with the traditional state 14


### authority to manage the plan and appear to be 15


### well beyond the agency's authority under the 16



### Clean Air Act. 17



### St ate legislatures have set renewable 18


### energy goals based on balancing local economic 19



### and environmental considerations now and find 20


### that those judgments had been second guessed by 21



### EPA. 22417

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### Congress itself is not able to agree on 1


### national renewable energy targets . The EPA 2


### focused the rule only on actions to reducing 3


### emissions within plant programs. The proposed 6 4


### percent efficiency improvement for existing 5


### plants is a step in the right direction, but we 6


### are doubtful that these investments will really 7


### be made giv en the rule's negative impact on coal 8


### generation and NSR currently under consideration. 9


### Finally, we do not know the extent to 10


### which other nations, particularly large and 11


### developing countries, will be going to commit to 12



### the true global program of greenhou se gas 13


### reductions. Our actions will have negligible 14


### climate impacts if the world is using more coal 15


### and other fossil fuels everyday. 16



### All indications from the United Nations 17


### plan for the process point to extreme difficulty 18


### in reaching agreement in Paris n ext year that it 19


### will lead to decreases in emissions from major 20


### developing nations sufficient to meet the goals 21



### of the 1992 Clean Water Act Convention. Thank 22418

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### you. 1



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you, Eugene. 2


### Next we have Jim Mylie, I hope I didn't 3



### get that too w rong, Jim. 4


### MR. WYLE: Wiley, is that what you said? 5


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Welie? If you can spell 6



### your name for the reporter. Thank you. 7


### MR. WEYLIE: My name is Jim Weylie, W

- e

8



### y

- l

- i

- e. I'm from West Chester, Pennsylvania. 9


### Thank you for this opportunit y to testify 10


### at the clean power plan public hearing. I'd like 11


### to try to speak on behalf of the millions of 12


### plant and animal species that cannot speak for 13



### themselves but are nevertheless threatened by the 14


### effects of climate change; threatened to the 15


### point of species extinction. The Nature 16


### Conservancy predicts a full 25 percent of earth's 17


### species will be extinct by 2050, unable to adapt 18


### or migrate to suitable environments. 19


### If changes in the global temperatures 20


### that we are seeing today were occurring over the 21


### span of millions of years, as has happened many 22419

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### times in earth's history, we would call it 1


### natural and the effects on plant and animal 2


### species would be natural. However, when these 3


### rapid changes in temperature are causing drastic 4


### changes in habitat, m igration patterns, ocean 5


### acidification, vegetation, insect infestations 6


### that increasingly over northern latitudes and 7


### above all species extinctions on land and the 8



### oceans over the course of centuries, not decades 9


### all thanks to human pollution from the comb ustion 10


### of fossil fuels, everyone must take 11


### responsibility. 12


### I feel responsibility as a member of a 13


### generation of people that has monitored, billed, 14


### and burned our way to economic prosperity. In 15



### the late '60s there was a serious of issues with 16



### water and f ossil fuels, a large contributor to 17


### water pollution was paper mills. The paper 18


### companies knew how to reduce or even eliminate 19


### the pollution they were responsible for, but none 20


### wanted to be the first to install these pollution 21


### controls. They didn't want t o lose a competitive 22420

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### edge with other paper companies. 1



### But when the Clean Water Act was passed 2


### in 1972, all the paper companies

-- all the paper 3


### companies had to install the same pollution 4


### controls. There was no competitive disadvantage. 5


### The price of pa per products to the consumer rose 6


### about three or four percent and the sky did not 7


### fall. Energy companies must be held responsible 8


### for the pollution that their industry emits. 9


### Broad and fair antipollution standards create a 10


### level playing field and encoura ge energy 11


### suppliers to diversify and invest in clean energy 12



### research and development. 13


### Having a long

- term road map for pollution 14


### and reductions is key to allowing the energy 15


### industry to find the best solutions for all 16



### energy markets. The demand for energ y is not 17


### going to significantly drop. Therefore, the need 18



### for energy

- related jobs is going to be strong 19


### especially in the transition to new technologies. 20



### Let's move forward together to a clean 21



### cooler future for all of the planet. Thank you. 22421

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### MR. TSIRIGO TIS: Thank you very much, 1



### Jim. 2



### Next up, Fernando Cazares and Brenda 3



### Mueller. 4



### You can both spell your name for the 5



### court reporter. 6


### MR. CAZARES: Good evening, folks, 7



### Fernando C

- a

- z, as zebra, a

- r

- e

- s. So thank you 8


### for allowing me to provide my comments

. 9



### As an uncle of a nine

- year

- old and seven

10



### year

- old, we have a role to improve the world by 11


### the time they're 18. 12


### We have a moral obligation to do what we 13


### can to protect my nieces and to protect our 14


### children and all future generations from the 15



### harmful ef fects of climate change by investing in 16


### the cost to reduce carbon pollution. In the U.S. 17



### power plants already account for 40 percent of 18


### the carbon pollution and we know the effect on 19


### climate change. We are not doing enough to 20


### protect our children's healt h and my niece’s 21



### health. Our communities have a lot at stake in 22422

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### requiring plants to finally cut carbon pollution. 1


### The Hispanic community on average is the biggest 2


### growing population in southwest region, 3


### California, New Mexico, and our population is 4



### also growing in North and South Carolina, Georgia 5


### and Virginia. 6


### According to the statistics, one out of 7


### every two Latinos

-- Latinos are two times more 8


### likely to die from asthma than any other disease 9


### according to the Office of Health in the U.S. 10



### Department of Health and Human Services. 11



### Over the past year I have had the 12


### opportunity to recruit from businesses, medical, 13


### and public health, academia, and the community 14


### and civic centers and their own forces and prove 15


### the ability of Latinos to achieve the American 16



### d ream which is inextricably linked with the 17


### actions that we take today to cut carbon 18


### pollution. Organizations and businesses that 19


### they represent understand that climate change is 20


### already a part of our communities and the 21


### businesses they run by intensifying the effects 22423

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### of drought in the southwest, for example, 1


### increasing the potential cause of flooding and 2


### strengthening tropical storms like Super Storm 3



### Sandy. 4



### Dr. Arios (Ph), the head of the National 5



### Medical Association understands the harmful 6



### effects of d irty air to the children, pregnant 7


### women according to the Centers for Disease 8



### Control. 9


### Further, according to the Small Business 10


### Administration, an estimated 25 percent of 11


### businesses do not open after a major storm. 12


### Climate change has created conditions that 13


### increase the intensity of a storm. 14



### Mr. Pei (Ph) the head of the Illinois 15



### Chamber of Commerce understands not only the 16


### effect of climate change on small businesses, but 17


### also the investment in energy efficiency and 18


### clean energy. That is also one of th e reasons why 19



### the National Black Latino Council and of one of 20


### our partners is hosting the first ever black, 21


### black, brown, and green summit this August in San 22424

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### Juan, Puerto Rico. 1



### The council understands the tremendous 2


### opportunities for minority business own ers to tap 3


### into special needs professional support and 4



### energy needs. 5


### The Latino community overwhelmingly 6


### supports your efforts to finally curb the 7


### unlimited carbon emissions that pollute the air 8



### that we breathe. 9


### Last year we released a national poll 10



### tha t showed nine out of ten Latinos support the 11


### government, support the EPA taking action to 12


### block the threat of climate change. And eight 13


### out of ten Latinos support the government cutting 14


### carbon pollution that causes climate change. 15


### So I sit here before y ou as an uncle, and 16



### a future father, and also as a concerned citizen 17


### to support the EPA. We are counting on you to 18


### set a clear path for a change in carbon emissions 19


### from power plants and look firmly towards steam 20


### implementation. 21



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank y ou, Fernando. 22425

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### MS. MULLER: Thank you for the 1


### opportunity to testify today. My name is Brenda 2



### Muller, M

- u

- l

- l

- e

- r. 3



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you. 4



### MS. MULLER: I want to thank the EPA for 5


### action on carbon pollution from existing power 6


### plant under Section 1 11(d) of the Act. 7


### First of all, thank you for your 8


### leadership. 9


### Secondly, states should increase the 10


### standards for renewable energy and efficiency. 11



### This is the cleanest and most cost

- effective way 12



### and the use of natural gas and renewable energy. 13



### And t hirdly, to be sure that the 14


### communities are engaged throughout the process 15


### and work with the communities as they transition 16



### to a clean energy economy. 17



### Thank you for your efforts and thanks for 18


### the opportunity to testify here today. 19



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Th ank you for coming. 20



### We'll take a recess. There's no other 21



### testimonies that we have at this time. I'll 22426

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### check to see if we will resume later. But we'll 1


### be here for a little bit longer in case someone 2


### comes later on. Thanks for coming, everybody. 3



### (Brie f recess taken at 7:35 p.m.) 4



### (Record resumes at 7:40 p.m.) 5



### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: We've got what may be 6


### the last two people. But, like I said, we'll 7



### stick around a little later too in case there is 8



### anybody else. 9


### We have Bob Cleaves and Jacqueline 10



### Patterson. 11


### So, Bob, you're on first. If you could 12



### spell your name for the court reporter? 13



### MR. CLEAVES: Sure. Thank you. 14


### My name is Robert Cleaves, C

- l

- e

- a

- v

- e

- s, 15



### and I serve as President of the Biomass Power 16



### Association. 17


### BPA is a national voice for energy 18



### d erived from using agricultural byproducts. Our 19



### members do business in more than 20 states and 20


### employ approximately 14,000 jobs in rural 21


### communities. Communities that are still a part 22427

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### of the recession, our employment is sometimes 20 1



### percent and a large pe rcent of communities are on 2



### some form of state or local assistance. We’re 3


### working with biomass energy. It's one of the 4


### more important sources of energy that nobody 5



### knows about. We take the lowest value materials 6


### like paper or saw products. Products, by the way 7


### with stored carbon and we replace the carbon in 8


### products like steel and concrete. We find a home 9


### for that product by converting them to 10


### electricity. We also use things

-- add 11



### materials, wood and the like. 12



### If we didn't exist, that low value 13



### mate rial which is piled up becomes fuel for 14


### forest fires that are increasingly the new normal 15



### for a warmer climate. 16


### So we don't just displace fossil energy, 17


### we solve a waste problem. Biomass power is 18


### recognized in virtually every state as renewable 19



### and it's recognized for its carbon benefits as 20


### well as California's carbon laws. It's high time 21


### that EPA raises the benefits of this energy and 22428

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### they can do so in the context of Section 111(d). 1


### We were gratified to be able to draft a 2



### statement for the Agency an d proudly speaking for 3


### burning biomass for our fuel for energy recovery 4


### in view of climate benefits as compared to 5


### burning conventional fuels. And we agree with 6


### EPA that states should define a clear path for 7


### considering biomass as a way of eliminating CO2 8



### emissions. 9


### We are all waiting for EPA's completion 10


### to provide a framework that’s commenced three 11


### years ago. We need also a rule that is 12


### equivalent in support, simple in its 13


### implementation and science

- based. 14


### This is how important this issue has 15



### become . As a nation we are increasingly looking 16



### to resources like wind and solar. While each are 17


### important, they also need a diverse source of 18


### base renewable energy and this is where 19


### technologies for biomass, hydro, or waste energy 20


### play a perfectly important r ole. The problems 21


### that our member companies are increasingly 22429

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### challenged with, to make investments of biomass, 1



### should be resolved. 2


### The promise of bioenergy is enormous from 3



### CHP systems on college campuses to small 4



### industrial sites to coal conversions to s team 5


### plants like ones that exist in Seattle and St. 6


### Paul. Whether you believe DOE or concerned 7


### scientists or the Rocky Mountain Institute, all 8


### of these entities can be expanded and are 9


### significant and sustainable and to realize its 10


### potential and also acco unt for carbon benefits of 11


### the existing biomass we need EPA to consider 12


### biomass as a part of the solution by sending a 13


### message to states to include biomass in RPS as an 14


### important mitigation strategy. 15


### Thank you for your time and we look 16



### forward to submitt ing written comments on this 17



### rule. 18


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you, Bill. 19


### Jacqueline? 20


### MS. PATTERSON: So my name is Jackie 21



### Patterson. In February of 2011 my father began 22430

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### to complain of a cough which worsened over six 1



### months until he was homebound and tethe red to an 2


### oxygen machine. He was severely winded just from 3


### walking from the living room to the kitchen to 4


### get a glass of water. Dad's diagnosis was 5


### pulmonary fibrosis. My father never smoked a day 6



### in his life. His doctor stated that the scar 7



### tissue in his lungs was likely due to past 8


### exposure to environmental toxins from his work or 9



### otherwise. 10


### Dad spent 40 years residing within ten 11


### miles of the Fiskin Cooperative Coal Plants in 12


### Chicago. We laid my father to rest on September 13



### 12 of 2011. 14



### How many mo re people must be buried 15


### before we are granted equal protection under the 16



### law? 17


### Approximately 68 percent of African 18


### Americans live within 30 miles of a coal plant. 19


### The impact is clear in the rates of respiratory 20


### illnesses in African Americans. Even thoug h we 21


### have lower rates of smoking, we are more likely 22431

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### to die of lung disease. Nationwide African 1


### American children are twice as likely to die of 2


### asthma and three times more likely to be admitted 3


### to hospital for asthma attacks. 4


### We also see higher asthma ra tes within 5


### Latino American and Native American populations 6


### who are also disproportionately exposed to coal 7


### pollution. 8


### Carbon may not directly cause these 9



### health conditions, but it creates what scientists 10


### call domes that trap, concentrate, and intensify 11



### t he other toxins we breathe. With the mercury 12


### arsenic, lead, dioxins and other pollutants that 13


### come from coal plants and communities nationwide, 14


### these domes are in effect creating lethal gas 15



### chambers for communities that are host to these 16



### facilities. 17



### At t he same time carbon dioxide is the 18


### number one driver of climate change and these 19


### plants are the leading source of carbon dioxide. 20


### Again, climate change affects us all, but 21


### its effects are felt hardest by communities and 22432

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### people who are politically, econom ically, 1


### physically, and socially vulnerable. 2



### When I did hurricane relief work after 3


### Katrina and Rita, the throngs of folks who walked 4


### through the door of the disaster recovery center 5


### were largely African American and low income. 6



### I also met scores of p eople with hearing 7


### impairments, with no qualified interpreter to 8


### help them navigate the system. 9


### I encountered people with HIV and AIDS 10



### who went weeks without access to their life 11


### preserving drugs. I met women who encountered 12



### sexual assault in the afterm ath of a disaster. I 13


### met hundreds of people only escaping with their 14



### lives. 15


### And the scientists say that Katrina, 16


### Rita, Sandy and more are only the tip of the 17


### iceberg. 18


### Growing up on the south side of Chicago I 19


### lived in a food desert, like so many commu nities 20



### of color and low

- income communities. This means 21



### we had better access to Doritos or Cheetos than 22433

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### broccoli or strawberries. We already see how 1


### this plays out for communities who are suffering 2


### from high rates of obesity as well as hunger and 3



### all of t he health conditions that result from 4


### poor diet such as diabetes, heart disease, high 5



### blood pressure, et cetera. 6



### Affordable access to nutritious foods 7


### will only lessen as climate change affects crops. 8


### In recent years we've seen farmers in Illinois, 9



### Iow a, Mississippi and beyond lose crops both from 10


### flood and drought. And, again, scientists say 11


### we've only begun to see these impacts. 12



### I visited coastal communities from 13



### Florida to Louisiana to North Carolina to New 14


### York, some of whom are already experienci ng 15


### coastal erosion and several of whom are already 16


### facing displacement in the next 20 years due to 17


### sea level rise and the storm surge. 18


### The cost of inaction on carbon pollution 19



### is the health, livelihood, culture, economic and 20


### social wellbeing of communiti es worldwide with 21


### vulnerable communities being hit first and worst. 22434

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### Therefore, we need strong carbon 1


### pollution standards to slow the path of 2


### devastation on which we are recklessly traveling. 3


### Strong for us means that we aren't steering the 4


### ship from one disaster to another by myopically 5


### shifting to false solutions. 6


### Even if costly clean coal technologies 7


### were proven to effectively capture carbon, that 8


### wouldn't help the 76,000 coal miners who have 9


### died of black lung disease since 1968 or the 10



### folks who are drinking lead and selenium

- laced 11


### waters contaminated by coal ash. 12


### Shifting to fracking continues to emit 13


### carbon from venting and flaring, has been known 14


### to contaminate aquifers with its mysterious 15


### cocktail of toxins and may even contribute to the 16



### increase in seismic activity that is causing 17


### earth plates from Nebraska to Ohio and beyond. 18



### The folks near the Fukushima Daiichi 19


### plant would certainly have a cautionary tale 20


### about increasing our reliance on nuclear energy, 21


### particularly given that a number of Amer ica's 22435

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### nuclear reactors are built on earthquake fault 1



### lines. 2


### We must establish aggressive targets for 3


### pollution reduction and significantly increase 4


### our focus and action on energy efficiency and 5


### clean energy. The National Renewable Energy 6



### Laboratory has found that we have vast amounts of 7


### solar, wind, and geothermal potential. Some of 8


### which is already being successfully harnessed 9


### creating new jobs. That's where we need to focus 10



### investments as we shift from harmful coal

- based 11


### energy production processes. 12


### Finally, we must ensure that each state's 13


### development of implementation plans is done 14


### inclusively so that equity

- based input is heeded 15


### and all stakeholders are heard, particularly 16


### communities that are most impacted by coal 17


### pollution directly as well as indirectly through 18


### climate change. 19



### Thank you so much. 20


### MR. TSIRIGOTIS: Thank you, Jackie. 21



### Thank you, everyone. We don't have 22436

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### anybody else scheduled. We'll stay here until 1


### eight o'clock in case somebody else does come. 2


### But at this point, there's nobo dy else scheduled. 3



### (Whereupon, at 8:00 p.m., the Clean Power 4


### Plan public meeting was adjourned.) 5

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