U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

86–306 PDF 2014

S. HRG. 113–240 

SERVING OUR SERVICE MEMBERS: A REVIEW 

OF PROGRAMS FOR VETERAN ENTREPRENEURS 

ROUNDTABLE 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND 

ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

NOVEMBER 13, 2013 

Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana, Chair 

JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho, Ranking Member 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire 

KAY R. HAGAN, North Carolina 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts 

COREY A. BOOKER, New Jersey 

DAVID VITTER, Louisiana 

MARCO RUBIO, Florida 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

TIM SCOTT, South Caarolina 

DEB FISCHER, Nebraska 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

JANE CAMPBELL, Democratic Staff Director 

SKIFFINGTON HOLDERNESS, Republican Staff Director 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS

Page 

Landrieu, Hon. Mary L., Chair, and a U.S. Senator from Louisiana .................. 1 

Enzi, Hon. Michael B., a U.S. Senator from Wyoming ......................................... 3 

Fischer, Hon. Deb, a U.S. Senator from Nebraska ............................................... 4 

WITNESS TESTIMONY

Jeppson, Rhett, Associate Administrator, Veterans Business Development, 

Office of Veterans Small Business Development, Small Business Administration ................................................................................................................... 5 

Celli, Louis, Legislative Director, American Legion ............................................. 5 

Spann, Harvetta, President, BLS Group, Inc. ....................................................... 6 

Dirks, Aaron, New Orleans, LA .............................................................................. 6 

Anderson, Jason ....................................................................................................... 6 

Rehder, Robert, North Carolina Veterans Business Outreach Center ................ 7 

Haynie, Mike, veteran, United States Air Force; Executive Director, Institute 

for Veterans and Military Families, Syracuse University; and Barnes Professor of Entrepreneurship, Syracuse University Business School .................. 7 

Ferguson, Chris, President, Shoulder 2 Shoulder, Arlington, VA ....................... 7 

Rowe, C. E. ‘‘Tee,’’ President, Small Business Development Center ................... 8 

Wynn, Joe, President, the Vets Group; National Legislative Director, 

NABVETS; and veteran, United States Air Force ............................................ 8 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Anderson, Jason 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 42 

Ashe, Barbara A. 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 65 

Celli, Louis 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 35 

Coster, John 

Discussion paper ............................................................................................... 64 

Dirks, Aaron 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Biographical sketch .......................................................................................... 41 

Enzi, Hon. Michael B. 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 3 

Ferguson, Chris 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 45 

Fischer, Hon. Deb 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 4 

Haynie, Mike 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 44 

Jeppson, Rhett 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 32 

Landrieu, Hon. Mary L. 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1 
Page

IV 

Porter, Rich 

Letter ................................................................................................................. 63 

Ramos, Luis 

Letter to Lena Postanowicz and attachment ................................................. 58 

Rehder, Robert 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Reyes, Roger 

Letter ................................................................................................................. 67 

Rowe, C. E. ‘‘Tee’’ 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 50 

Spann, Harvetta 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 39 

Wynn, Joe 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 57 
(1) 

SERVING OUR SERVICE MEMBERS: A REVIEW 

OF PROGRAMS FOR VETERAN 

ENTREPRENEURS 

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2013 

UNITED STATES SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP, 

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:48 a.m., in Room 

SR–428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Mary L. Landrieu 

(chair of the committee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Landrieu, Enzi, and Fischer. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARY L. LANDRIEU, CHAIR, 

AND A U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA 

Chair LANDRIEU. Good morning, and welcome to the Small Business roundtable, ‘‘Serving our Service Members: A Review of Programs for Veteran Entrepreneurs.’’ We really appreciate your testimony and participation in this important hearing. 

I would like to personally acknowledge one of our participants 

from Louisiana, Aaron Dirks, the Chairman of PosiGen, New Orleans, and I welcome all of our participants today. 

As the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan come to a close and our 

troop levels draw down from the Middle East, the American economy is gaining access to tens of thousands of smart, disciplined, 

and motivated men and women leaving their posts overseas to 

enter the workforce here at home. We ask our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines to innovate and to problem solve and we know 

they are the best in the world. These young men and women develop a unique skill set during their years of service in uniform. We 

need to do everything possible to clear a path for them to use those 

skills to make a living for themselves and their families and to pursue their entrepreneurial dreams, not just for their own benefit, 

but, of course, for the benefit of their communities and our Nation. 

That is why, as Chair of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, we are holding this roundtable today 

to hear from veterans and policy experts, not only from my State 

of Louisiana but from across the country. I really appreciate Senator Enzi, who has a great deal of experience in this regard, joining 

us today for this informal but important roundtable. I am looking 

forward to hearing his comments and questions. We want to see 

what Federal programs are working well to assist veterans in this 
2 

transition and which need to be tuned up, substantially modified, 

or eliminated. 

Today, there are about 2.4 million veteran-owned small businesses in America, which represent about eight percent of all small 

businesses in the country. They generate collectively more than $1 

trillion in revenue each year and employ almost six million people. 

In Louisiana, we are proud to have 57,000 veteran-owned businesses that employ 145,000 people. These small businesses represent nearly 14 percent of all the businesses in our State. 

Now, more than ever, our country needs innovative job creators 

building our economy and pushing us forward and taking advantage of the real extraordinary opportunities here in America today. 

We need to harness the leadership potential of our servicemen and 

women and eliminate barriers to employment and entrepreneurship. 

Unfortunately, some past efforts to address the unique needs of 

aspiring veteran entrepreneurs have proven to be inefficient and 

duplicative. For example, a 2008 GAO report found there was weak 

coordination among agencies to coordinate entrepreneurial small 

business assistance for veterans. One program was that there had 

yet to be established an Interagency Task Force to coordinate Federal efforts. As a result of this finding, the Task Force was established in 2008. 

Also in 2008, this committee conducted a review of the activities 

and operations of The Veterans Corporation (TVC), which had received more than $17 million in Federal subsidies since its inception in 1999. Not only did we find it was failing at its statutory 

mission of expanding technical assistance for veteran entrepreneurs, but we uncovered gross mismanagement of Federal 

spending. 

So, in 2012, I sponsored an amendment to eliminate the program 

so that, by cutting fat, getting rid of redundant and ineffective veterans’ employment and training programs, we can better invest in 

those that work. I know that you share that goal with me. 

We need to focus on implementing smart, targeted programs that 

serve specific veterans’ populations, provide ongoing support, and 

most importantly, in my view, and many on this committee, leverage public-private partnerships and use the great strength of our 

universities. 

For instance, the Boots to Business program offered by the Small 

Business Administration as part of the DOD’s Transition Assistance Program provides transitioning service members with an introduction to entrepreneurship as a career option as they return to 

civilian life. To date, that program has reached more than 4,700 

service members. 

The Entrepreneurship Boot Camp for Veterans with Disabilities, 

EBV, provides cutting-edge experiential training to veterans with 

service-related disabilities through a consortium of eight universities at no cost to participants. Since 2007, the EBV program has 

reached more than 820 disabled veterans who have started more 

than 530 businesses. 

Women Veterans Igniting the Spirit of Entrepreneurship, V– 

WISE, is an entrepreneurial training program specifically for female veterans that is currently held at seven locations nationwide. 
3 

As of January, the program has served about 1,000 female veterans 

who have started over 550 new businesses. 

Finally, through a network of 15 Veterans Business Outreach 

Centers, the SBA provides ongoing support and assistance to new 

and existing veteran-owned small businesses. According to the 

SBA, three particular centers stand out for their exceptional work, 

the ones that are located in Massachusetts, New Mexico, and North 

Carolina. We have the North Carolina Veteran Business Outreach 

Center represented here today and we are looking to hearing more 

about their exceptional program. 

These programs and others have proven themselves to be effective and successful, which is why I am working on legislation to 

improve these services and reauthorize them for the next five 

years. If we find out differently at this roundtable, then that legislation can be adjusted. 

The men and women of our Armed Forces serve our Nation with 

honor and sacrifice and I look forward to hearing from each of you 

about what more you think the government at every level—in the 

hearing this morning, it will be mostly Federal, but we would love 

you to talk about anything that you know at the local or State level 

that is working well, and most importantly, comment about private 

sector and faith-based initiatives that are really working well so 

that we can do everything we can to provide a smooth transition 

for our veterans into the workforce and create opportunities for employment. 

Let me turn this over to my partner, Mike Enzi, for his comments, and then what I would like to do is have each of you just 

introduce yourself for one minute, name what you are either hoping to accomplish here or your best thing you want to share in one 

minute. And then the way this roundtable works, as the Senator 

knows, is very informal. I am going to pose a few questions. Your 

statements will all be put into the record. I am going to pose a few 

questions, and there is a lot of back-and-forth, hopefully, that will 

go, and you can ask questions. We will be conducting this roundtable for another hour-and-a-half. 

Senator Enzi, please proceed, and thank you so much for being 

a part of this. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL B. ENZI, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM WYOMING 

Senator ENZI. Thank you, Madam Chairman, for holding this 

timely roundtable to have a real discussion about what the Small 

Business Administration is currently doing to assist those who 

have so admirably served their country to make their entrepreneurial dreams become a reality. 

While unemployment numbers for veterans remain unacceptably 

high, it is especially important that we look at the SBA programs 

and see how we can most efficiently and effectively encourage and 

assist current military personnel and veterans to consider turning 

their ideas into a business reality. 

I would also like to thank our distinguished panelists for taking 

the time to come and share their expertise with us today. I am 

looking forward to hearing from them on how well the SBA’s veteran-geared programs are working at the ground level and what we 
4 

can do to better serve the population that has done so much to 

serve our country. 

I am especially eager to hear from Lieutenant Colonel Anderson, 

who has a great book that outlines how military personnel can 

start working on their business ideas while they are still on active 

duty. In our current economic climate, we need to be thinking 

about innovative ways we can help our Nation’s military personnel 

transition to civilian life and business ownership before they separate from the military. 

I am thrilled and proud to have a Wyomingite here today to 

share his expertise and firsthand experience setting up a business. 

Jason Anderson comes from Jackson, Wyoming, and is an active 

duty Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Air Force. He is currently serving at the Pentagon, but will, as many Wyomingites do, be returning to Jackson with his wife and family after his June 2014 retirement. 

He and his wife, Adrianna, spent three years planning their business, which they launched in April of 2013. In June this year, 

Jason also published a book called Active Duty Entrepreneur, discussing his experiences with the Small Business Administration 

and best practices he learned to help other active duty service 

members navigate their own business goals. The main goal of the 

book is to get active duty personnel to start thinking about their 

business goals well in advance of their military separation and retirement. By working on these goals while still in the military ecosystem, the ecosystem provides a stable job, regular pay, health 

care, and a predictable career timeline. Military personnel can then 

create their own smooth transition into a low-risk environment. 

I read and enjoyed Jason’s book. I have got it well underlined 

and dogeared and commend him for it. I believe he not only has 

great ideas, but he has powerful testimony of firsthand experience. 

He is serving in the military and yet has set up his own business. 

He emphasizes in there to do it on your own time. I cannot think 

of anyone better to give us insight into ways we can better equip 

those who so selflessly and faithfully serve our country to succeed 

once they leave the military than someone who has gone through 

this process himself. 

I am glad Jason is here and I look forward to his contributions 

to this roundtable. I look forward to the comments of others. I appreciate the written testimony that we have gotten, which will, of 

course, be a part of the record. And, of course, we hope that we will 

be able to maybe submit some questions to you even after the hearing is over. 

Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Absolutely, Senator. 

And we have been joined by Senator Fischer. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DEB FISCHER, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM NEBRASKA 

Senator FISCHER. Good morning, Madam Chair. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Good morning. 

Senator FISCHER. Thank you so much for holding this very important roundtable. 
5 

I am thankful for the sacrifices made each day by our active duty 

service members and their families to protect our Nation and to 

guard the cause of freedom. I want nothing more for all of those 

who have risked life and limb than for them to be able to pursue 

the very American dream that they fought so courageously to defend. 

One of our most important roles in Congress is to ensure that 

Federal dollars are spent wisely and effectively. I look forward to 

the roundtable this morning and to hearing from each of the witnesses how programs aimed at supporting our veteran small business owners are working. We owe it to our brave men and women 

in uniform to ensure that all of the programs in place to support 

our veterans are run well and administered efficiently. 

Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. 

And as we said before you came in, it is time for everyone to introduce themselves, Rhett, starting with you, please. You have to 

lean into your microphone, press the ‘‘talk’’ button, kind of lean in 

so that your voice can be picked up. And if you would just introduce yourself for a minute or less and your name, background, and 

then what you hope to accomplish or share with the group today. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am. Good morning, and thank you for having and inviting us here today. I am Rhett Jeppson. I am the Associate Administrator at the Veterans Business Development. I head 

up the Office of Veterans Small Business Development at SBA. 

I am a serving Marine Corps Reserve Lieutenant Colonel. I have 

run a small business, my family’s small business, have been Director of Purchasing for a State purchasing agency, the State of Florida. As I mentioned, I am not only in the Marine Corps myself, I 

actually have a daughter who is a PFC in the Marine Corps, so I 

like to give her a shout-out here. 

[Laughter.] 

But, what I would like to achieve today is I think that we have 

the core of some really good programs at SBA and we are very 

proud of the work that we have done to date. But those programs 

can always use process improvement as we look forward to serving 

the veterans’ community. We cannot rest on what we have accomplished today or what our plan is. So, we look forward to hearing 

the roundtable’s input into how we might improve the process and 

be of a better benefit and more affect our veterans’ community. 

Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. Thank you so much. 

Louis. 

Mr. CELLI. Thank you, Chairwoman Landrieu, and thank you for 

having this roundtable discussion today and for inviting us here. 

I am the Legislative Director for the American Legion, and in the 

interest of full disclosure, I ran the Massachusetts Veterans Business Outreach Center for ten years before taking over this position. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Well, a shout-out to you. That got great reviews. 

Mr. CELLI. Thank you very much, and I am looking forward to 

discussing those successes here today as well as some of the programs that are overseen by SBA and some of the challenges we see 
6 

with those programs in addition to ways that they can be improved. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Wonderful. 

Ms. Spann. 

Ms. SPANN. Good morning. My name is Harvetta Spann. I am a 

former Army logistics officer, turned corporate executive, turned 

entrepreneur. I am the President of BLS Group, Inc., a meeting 

and event planning company based in Northern Virginia. We are 

a service disabled, veteran woman-owned small business. 

I am also the co-founder of the WAVE, Women as Veteran Entrepreneurs. The purpose of the WAVE is to create forums to connect 

women veteran small business owners with government agencies, 

and prime contractors, to help them grow their business. 

I am also a V–WISE graduate. I graduated in 2011, the Baltimore Conference—I think that was the second conference that was 

held. Just recently I was asked to come to the Chicago conference 

and be a speaker and panel member. The V–WISE program played 

a huge role in helping me launch the WAVE and I am just here 

to express my gratitude for all the programs. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you so much. 

Mr. Dirks. 

Mr. DIRKS. Well, good morning. Aaron Dirks, New Orleans, Louisiana. I am eight of those 2.4 million companies out there that are 

veteran-owned, a few hundred employees scattered around this 

country with a deep, almost sort of leader in Entrepreneurs Organization, which is a global entrepreneurs program and very active 

in veteran entrepreneurship matters. 

So, my goal here is to provide whatever feedback that I can and 

insights that I have seen over my years of entrepreneurship on successes and areas for improvement for the resources that are available or maybe can be made available to our aspiring veteran entrepreneurs and just to be present and willing. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you so much. 

Lieutenant Colonel Anderson. 

Colonel ANDERSON. Yes. Good morning. My name is Jason Anderson, and to do the introduction, I do not think I could do a better job than my Wyoming Senator Enzi did, so I will keep my remarks fairly short here. 

[Laughter.] 

You asked to comment on what I would like to get out of this, 

and my goal here is to kind of look at active duty people just a little bit different than we had before. The current system as it 

stands now, as you do your military service, there is a clear partition between that and being a veteran. So, a lot of times, even in 

the support roles, they are addressed as such, and what I am trying to do is back up that line and even blur it a bit because there 

is a lot of time is what you are going to have most to benefit from 

when you are on active duty. And you can start these endeavors 

as early as you like and invest as much time, money, and effort as 

you would like and it just provides that system, and that is just 

what I wanted to share today. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Excellent. Excellent point. 

Mr. Rehder. 
7 

Mr. REHDER. Good morning. I am Robert Rehder of North Carolina Veterans Business Outreach Center. I am delighted to be here 

and share with you some of my experiences this morning. 

As a Vietnam-era Navy veteran counseling literally a thousand 

or so veterans every year, I would submit to our committee here 

that every one of the men and women that I counsel do not want 

to be wards of the State or Federal Government. They want to 

reach financial and personal independence through a small business. They simply, in most cases, do not know how. I am delighted 

to share some of my experiences today and hope to gain other experiences that will help me augment my program. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Wonderful. Thank you, Mr. Rehder. 

Dr. Haynie. 

Mr. HAYNIE. Hi. My name is Mike Haynie. I am a veteran of the 

United States Air Force. I am the Executive Director of the Institute for Veterans and Military Families up at Syracuse University. 

I am also the Barnes Professor of Entrepreneurship at the Business School there at Syracuse. 

As a veteran and as a Professor of Entrepreneurship, the topic 

of veteran business ownership is more than just a professional interest. It really is a passion of mine because I believe as strongly 

as I believe anything there is nobody more deserving of the opportunity to live the American dream of business ownership than 

somebody who has put on a uniform to defend that dream. 

So, I spent the better part of the last seven years since I left active duty service designing and managing programs, training programs focused on empowering veterans through business ownership, to include the EBV program, the V–WISE program, the Entrepreneurship Boot Camp for veterans’ families, and now the new 

transition track from DOD, the Boots to Business program. So, I 

am excited to talk about how we can continue those private-public 

sector partnerships to grow and expand these programs. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Excellent. Thank you so much. I have read recently so much of what your university is doing, and you, and cannot wait to hear more. 

Mr. Ferguson. 

Mr. FERGUSON. Chair Landrieu, committee members, good morning. My name is Chris Ferguson. I am the President of Shoulder 

2 Shoulder, a service-disabled veteran-owned small business located in Arlington, Virginia. My partner, Ken Falke, is the servicedisabled veteran. 

Our primary goal is to develop information technology and [off 

microphone] that improve operation and performance, prevent 

traumatic injuries, and enable veteran recovery and reintegration. 

We pursue our goals with a socially responsible business plan. We 

deliver tangible results to the government while driving up to 50 

percent of our after-tax profits back to veteran charities. I am 

proud to say that 57 percent of our employees are U.S. military 

veterans and 40 percent of them are disabled U.S. military veterans. 

Our flagship product is a customizable mobile application called 

IMPACT. IMPACT is a secure collaboration network focused on 

video lessons learned from the counter-ID community. This program was recently validated by the U.S. Special Operations Com-
8 

mand and is currently available across iPhone, Android, web, and 

mobile web. Our goal—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. And did you bring—we are not going to read 

the statement today, but did you bring some of your video to show 

today? 

Mr. FERGUSON. Unfortunately, I did not. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Did not. 

Mr. FERGUSON. I did not know—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Oh, all right. I saw it in my office. You all are 

going to miss it, but we will try to get it back. All right. 

Mr. FERGUSON. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Mr. Rowe. 

Mr. ROWE. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. I am Tee Rowe. I am 

the President of America’s SBDC, which represents the Small Business Development Center network nationwide. It is over 950 centers and over 4,000 professionals. About 13, 14 percent of the folks 

that SBDCs assist are veterans. In 2012, it was about 37,000 veterans that we assisted. 

The big thing that I would like to get out of this roundtable is 

to discuss the coordination between the offerings that SBDCs have, 

Boots to Business, and all of the other tools that are out there so 

we can find some efficient and really effective ways to make sure 

veterans get every bit of assistance they need. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Mr. Wynn. 

Mr. WYNN. Thank you, and good morning, Senator and other 

members of the committee. My name is Joe Wynn and I am the 

President of the Vets Group, National Legislative Director for 

NABVETS, and also Air Force veteran. As such, I am also a part 

of the Veterans Entrepreneurship Task Force, of which I have been 

a part of since 1999. 

Collectively with other representatives of VSOs and other veteran small business owners, we have been seeing the implementation of P.L. 106–50 since that time and have continued to participate and advocate for ways to increase contracting opportunities 

for veteran business owners, particularly in the Federal marketplace. And what I would like to see today is to learn how we can 

continue to increase and get above that three percent mandate for 

Federal veteran business contractors. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. 

Well, let us start this roundtable, and just to remind my Senators, when members want to speak—not you all, just signal to 

me—but everyone else, just put your name card up like this and 

I will call on you, because I really want this to be very informal. 

You can jump in. This is not a formal hearing that you normally 

see, and we think the information that we get from these 

roundtables is really extraordinary. 

So, I want to start with you, Mr. Haynie, if I could. Speaking 

from a university, obviously, you have a great passion for what you 

do. You have started the Institute for Veterans & Military Families. You are a Ph.D. You look out and study things that are working from your vantage point, things that are not. Could you just 

begin this roundtable by giving us some specifics about the program that you think is most effective in leveraging private sector 

funding, because, as you know, our government funding is limited. 
9 

We want to make sure that we are investing it in programs that 

get the biggest bang for the buck and leveraging the private sector 

and the nonprofit groups that are out there to really target our veterans. And then I am going to come back to Mr. Anderson about 

that blurred line that he talked about. But go ahead, and if anybody wants to jump in, you can. 

Mr. HAYNIE. I would be happy to. I think two things jump out 

at me as examples, and I told Rhett Jeppson and others that we 

work with at the Federal level that some of the things that we 

have been able to do with SBA represent, in my mind, some of the 

most entrepreneurial, if you will, examples of a private-public partnership. 

EBV, for example, the program that has been mentioned a few 

times, was a program that I started when I left the military and 

it has since expanded to eight other universities. That program was 

created and initially grown without any government money whatsoever. It was not until, I think, 2009, 2010 that that program received a small grant from the SBA, to the tune of, I think, about 

$150,000 a year. But the reality is, the eight universities that participate as well as private sector partners fund that program to the 

tune of about $1.2 million a year to fully fund it on behalf of all 

the veterans that go through. 

So, none of the 800-plus wounded warriors who have gone 

through that program to date have paid a nickel for that training, 

to include transportation, lodging, the residency. We actually had 

to go through an exercise at one point of valuing that experience 

on the private market for the Marine Corps. It was about a $42,000 

per person experience that was delivered without any cost at all to 

the veterans. Because it was delivered in a higher education setting, we could leverage existing infrastructure at, for example, one 

of our partners, LSU, and the cash cost nationally across our eight 

universities to deliver that program works out to be about $5,500 

per veteran for a market-based experience that, if we did it outside 

of higher education, as I said, would be about $42,000. 

Chair LANDRIEU. It would be $42,000. 

Mr. HAYNIE. V–WISE is another great example. We have been 

able to essentially act as a bridge for the SBA—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Before you get to V–WISE, let me ask you this. 

Tell me real quickly—I know it is in the testimony, but explain. 

The program is a residential program for just a few months, or is 

it a few weeks, or—— 

Mr. HAYNIE. It actually starts with some distance learning, so 

the veterans go through some online training. Then we bring cohorts of 25 at a time to the campuses of eight different universities—UCLA, Texas A&M, Florida State, Cornell, Pursue, the University of Connecticut, obviously up in Syracuse, and I always miss 

one, but I made sure—and LSU, but I had mentioned—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. LSU. Do not miss LSU. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. HAYNIE. And they are there for an eight-day residency, 7:30 

in the morning until 10:00 at night. But the important thing is, 

then we plug them into a year of what we call technical assistance, 

where they are afforded, for example—another good example of 

public-private partnership—a small business lawyer. We created a 
10 

partnership with the law firm DLA Piper, the largest law firm in 

the country. Every graduate gets access to a small business lawyer. 

They get access to an accountant. They get access to web design, 

logo design services, et cetera, all funded and made available by 

the private sector through collaborations and partnerships that we 

have built. 

So, the full term of the engagement for the program is about 14 

months of intense engagement, but we continue to essentially cultivate a family of graduates that we bring together once a year. We 

just did that down in Dallas two weeks ago, so we—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. And are these veterans invited, or do they volunteer, or how are they selected to be a part—— 

Mr. HAYNIE. It is a competitive process, so they go through a 

competitive application process. You know, I describe it as a blessing and a curse that we have many, many more applications to the 

program than we actually have available seats every year. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Yes. How many applications do you have? 

Mr. HAYNIE. This year, we probably were unable to have seats 

for 350 to 400 qualified, ready for the training applicants. We had 

many more applications than that that I would say some of those 

applicants were not quite ready for the—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. But with a little help could have been—— 

Mr. HAYNIE. Absolutely. 

Chair LANDRIEU. So there is a real need. And do any of you all 

want to comment or know about this program, or have had any experience with it, or have heard people that have been through it? 

Anybody? Go ahead, Mr. Dirks. 

Mr. DIRKS. So, I have been a volunteer with the EBV program 

in the LSU for a number of years now, the three years that it has 

been around. I donate services from my businesses, transportation, 

education. I give keynote addresses. I have gotten—I have done 

personal mentoring with a lot of the applicants that have been 

there. 

And I can personally testify that it is one of the best entrepreneurial programs that I have seen in my experience, and my experience is more than just veteran programs. I have done accelerated 

programs with Federal and State and local incentives. I work with 

SBDCs. Anyway, my point is that the EBV program is, by far, one 

of the most efficient and productive processes in the amount of 

time that I have seen any kind of kickstarter program have, and 

I think it is one that can be replicated if we leverage resources appropriately to reach more of those—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Excellent. Mr. Celli. 

Mr. CELLI. Thank you. We have been a big fan of the EBV program ever since it started. We have been partners with Mike in 

Syracuse. We have actually participated as guest speakers in some 

of the programs. And by far and large, the program is definitely the 

Cadillac of veterans programs and it is for those gazelles, as the 

SBA likes to call it, those people who are just really, really ready 

to take that next step. 

Getting them to that step, as you have previously mentioned, is 

really the big challenge, and as we have heard, 800 participants 

over the past six years is an excellent way to get these veterans 

into the small business arena, but it barely makes, really, a dent 
11 

in the overall veteran population of veterans who aspire to start 

their own businesses. 

There is a recent report by the Kauffman Foundation that cited, 

from 1999 until about three years ago, the average participation by 

veterans in the small business arena was around 12 percent. Over 

the past three years, it has dropped to roughly six percent. You 

quoted eight percent earlier in your opening remarks. So, that is 

a very troubling decline, something that we need to address, and 

that is one of the reasons that I am very pleased that we are having this today. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Mr. Ferguson. 

Mr. FERGUSON. As part of the lessons learned work that we do 

with many young veterans who are both reintegrating or still active duty, with some of the work that we have done with veterans 

that have already reintegrated and started their own small businesses, inevitably—and I have this on video, unfortunately I do not 

have it today, but I have it on video where I have heard multiple 

men and women say that the EBV program has been invaluable to 

their experience in starting a small business, and two young 

wounded Marines that started a small business in North Carolina, 

for example, said they recommend every veteran, and particularly 

wounded veterans, go through that program. 

Chair LANDRIEU. That is just really extraordinary compliments of 

this program. 

Senator Fischer. 

Senator FISCHER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Following up on your comment about active duty veterans, and 

Lieutenant Colonel Anderson, you mentioned that, as well. Is there 

any way that we can better help the folks transfer from active duty 

to the private sector and really utilize the skills that they have? 

Are there programs out there that help with that, either at the 

Federal level or at the State level, that any of you would know 

about? 

Colonel ANDERSON. Great question, and sorry I have got to do 

the little caveat before I talk anymore, but even though I am an 

active duty Lieutenant Colonel, my remarks and all my comments 

today are just based on my private experience in starting up a 

business and writing a book, so I have to make that clear divide 

between I am certainly not representing the Air Force while I am 

here. Get that out there. 

[Laughter.] 

Answering your question, we have actually looked into these programs, as well, my wife and I, because these kind of endeavors are 

always a family-based affair. So, we have looked into them, and 

just like all the comments that have been made, these are very valuable programs. 

And answering your question, going back to the active duty, 

there are a couple challenges that are presented there. One is just 

the military culture. The military culture starts off, you begin your 

training, you go through your term in whatever service you are 

choosing, and then you become a veteran. I mean, it is literally 

blocked off like that. And a lot of the support is done that way, as 

well. 
12 

There has been a lot of stuff with the Vow to Hire Heroes Act 

of 2011, going into the Department of Labor and then talking about 

the different tracks that they are doing now as part of the TAP 

GPS program, of which I have done. But the problem is, it is the 

individual service member that is the challenge, and why I say that 

is because of the culture, they delay and delay and delay getting 

their support that they have for the TAP GPS program that then 

gets them to the transition. So, it is very much left up to the individual. 

Senator FISCHER. Are there partnerships with private businesses 

to help utilize their skills that they have learned while being in the 

Armed Forces? I am trying to figure out how veterans can make 

a transfer and really benefit in a positive way from what they have 

learned while they have been serving our country. 

Colonel ANDERSON. Absolutely. And, like everyone has mentioned 

here, there is so much talent and untapped talent for entrepreneurial endeavors of any kind. The thing is, how do we reach back 

there, and that has become my kind of sole mission with Active 

Duty Entrepreneur, is I am trying to energize the individual, and 

I am going to get into their—and the launch—as part of any business, you start out in phases and then you continue on. But the 

important stuff that I want to kind of highlight with Active Duty 

Entrepreneur is just I am talking about just a different approach. 

I mean, all the existing systems are great. They must continue. 

They are very critical. 

But what I am talking about is empowering the individual to the 

point where they are funding their own business. There will be no 

help from the government. Part of the plan is they use and dollar 

cost average their own salary into their own build-up of their plan. 

So, they are owning it, literally, and the way they do that is just 

they have more time, talking about the ecosystem that Senator 

Enzi was talking about. If you can control the time aspect of that, 

you have a lot of leverage when you go out into that. 

Funding on your own dime is a critical piece of the puzzle, in my 

personal opinion, because once you do that, you figure out, if you 

do not have enough money, you have got to figure out how to partner. You have got to figure out how to find corporate sponsors. You 

have got to figure out—and these are the savvy kind of scrappy 

business tactics that are going to become beneficial to them while 

they are setting up their business and then, obviously, when they 

become a full-fledged mature business that can then provide jobs 

to others. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Mr. Anderson, let me press you on this point, 

because I think the Senator has raised an excellent point. I can actually really see and really admire you for thinking this is outside 

the box, blurring that line, getting our veterans that have gotten 

skills and talent which the United States has invested a tremendous amount of money in training, et cetera, et cetera. 

But give us, honestly, one or two comments—and I am going to 

get to you, Mr. Jeppson—about what the military would think of 

this. I mean, if you think about a commander, they have got their 

troops ready to deploy, to fight, and then you and I, others, would 

like them to be starting to transition out. How do you honestly see 

the commanders looking at this, as a problem or a possibility? I 
13 

mean, I can see why they keep that line sharp. But on the other 

hand, but does not seem like it makes a lot of sense. Could you 

comment for two minutes on that, and then I am going to get to 

Mr. Jeppson and anybody else, Mr. Haynie or anyone that wants 

to comment. 

Colonel ANDERSON. Absolutely. Those are great questions, and I 

get those very frequently. Of course, culture is always an issue, but 

something that people do not look at is, first, this is solely done on 

your own time, never done with resources provided by the government. But, the fact is, we do not work 24 hours a day. There is a 

certain duty day period, and the way I differentiate it in my mind 

is that the military can make me go wherever they want me to go. 

I have to deploy. I salute smartly and go. But when I have those 

eight or 12 hours off, during my free time, I can pretty much pursue an endeavor so long as it is not in conflict with what my 

present job is. That is where the dividing line is. 

Now, when you talk about a commander, I try to take the other 

side of the dime on that. If we have more business savvy people 

scattered in the aggregate throughout the Department of Defense, 

we are actually going to make better acquisition decisions. We are 

going to have better, more business-experienced people that can 

then brief up to their staff and to their generals that make decisions on acquisitions that can actually help them negotiate scope 

things. These are just different things that you learn when you are 

starting a small business. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Right, when you are learning. 

Mr. Jeppson. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am. If I could go back just real quick to 

the Boots to Business and the EBV piece—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. You have to speak into your microphone, 

please. I am sorry. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am. Okay. So, if I could, if I could just go 

back to EBV and V–WISE real quick, you know, in both of those 

programs, when you look at the total dollars that we put into that, 

it is a pretty small amount, and when I think you look at the small 

numbers that we have had through, it is still a pretty good return 

on investment. You know, when you look at EBV, it is less than 

$150,000 a year that we put into that, so it is not a lot of money. 

But, like Lou mentioned, it does not really come to scale for the 

service members right now, and that is where Boots to Business focuses. It is on scale. It—when we are fully funded, anyway, it will 

be at scale. You know, we have enjoyed—it has been in the President’s budget the past two years. We have had good House and 

Senate marks, but, hence, under CR. So, we are only able to come 

to a certain amount of scale, which is about, utilizing our current 

capacity, about 12 percent. That is the $4,700 that you mentioned—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. What is it in the President’s budget for and 

what number have you been operating at lower than that? 

Mr. JEPPSON. So, it is in the President’s budget for the past two years at $7 million—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Seven million. 

Mr. JEPPSON. At $7 million, and we have had no budget. We 

were able to reprogram out of—— 
14 

Chair LANDRIEU. You have had zero? 

Mr. JEPPSON. Zero additional funding for it. We had—we were able to program about $650,000 out of some Jobs Act money, out 

of 2012 Jobs Act money—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. So, this is a program we are trying to start, but 

we cannot get the line item funding for? 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am. Exactly. Because we have been under 

CR, we have had no additional funding. 

Chair LANDRIEU. This is a real problem. 

Mr. JEPPSON. It is. When you consider, though, that we have 

wringed [sic] out every efficiency we can in SBA, and we get—we 

were able to get about 4,000 people through there, and it is really 

through the good work that we have with our resource partners, 

the SBDCs, the WBCs, the District Offices, the SCORE chapters 

who are out there actually delivering that on post. 

If I could a little bit, it does—and I certainly understand what 

Colonel Anderson is talking about, where we do have some challenges. The service is trying to back up with Transition GPS so 

that people start to think about, when they leave the service—earlier, ideally—TAP is going to happen a year before they leave the 

service now—before it happened about 30 days before you left the 

service and it was not uniform. But there is certainly that tension, 

and we see that with Boots to Business right now, about people 

even coming through the transition courses right now with the 

operational deployment and schedule that we have. You know, the 

service is being drawn right now. Op tempo still remains high. So 

there is that natural tension. You know, obviously, we would love 

to turn them all into entrepreneurs while they have that stable environment. 

I think that one thing that we mentioned when we talk about the 

service members is also the service members’ spouses. We see a lot 

of spouses coming through the Boots to Business program here and 

they take advantage of that, and they can take advantage of that 

even before the member separates. It provides an opportunity and 

it is a good pathway for a lot of spouses to engage in entrepreneurship. It provides other economic benefit for the family. It also helps 

alleviate some of those stressors, if you will, of finance and other 

things. So, we think that it is not only a benefit for the service 

member, but the service member’s family. And by offering it earlier 

in the transition lifecycle for the exiting service members, we hope 

to increase their readiness when they actually do exit the service. 

Chair LANDRIEU. That makes so much sense. 

Mr. Rehder, I would love to hear from you, and then I will get 

Senator Enzi in just a second. Could you comment about this, because you have not said anything and you run one of the best programs in the country that sees thousands of veterans that come in 

and must ask you for help and support, and you are hearing about 

two great programs. Are you able to access those programs for the 

men and women that you are trying to reach, and could you comment on that? 

Mr. REHDER. Yes, ma’am. Thank you very much. It is difficult to 

understand how veterans think, especially when they come back 

from a combat arena. And so we work very closely to understand 

how their mindset is going into training. So, the mindset for most 
15 

of these folks, and they are men and women and they may be 

across the board—they may be enlisted, they may be warrant, or 

they may be commissioned officers—is a shockingly low level of financial literacy. And I am not casting aspersions on any of my fellow veterans, but that is the case. 

And so a program like Boots to Business is extremely important, 

because at some point, not while they are on active duty within a 

combat area, but when they come back and they go through the 

CAP and the ACAP program, now they are introduced to the basics 

of economics, the very basics—how money, cash, goods and services 

flow in the United States and across our borders. They absolutely 

need that before they can go into a meaningful further advanced 

program, and the Boots to Business gives them that opportunity. 

I teach the Boots to Business. I have greatly enjoyed it and I can 

tell you it is a wonderful program. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Senator Enzi. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator ENZI. Are we going to go back to comments—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Go right ahead. This is very informal. You can 

go back. 

Senator ENZI. Mr. Jeppson mentioned about working with the 

spouses. I know that Colonel Anderson’s wife has been involved in 

the business. It seems like it could fill a need there. So, what effort 

are we going to involve spouses in these businesses and this planning for when they might get out and how early? 

Mr. JEPPSON. Well, to be honest, Senator, we have not started to 

really market or push the Boots to Business program yet because 

we cannot come to scale or capacity. What we have done is just 

worked within the Transition GPS system that is there and we 

have brought it to the scale that we have capacity to. 

If we look at the numbers that we have, we have seen about 23 

percent of the service members that come through the Boots to 

Business class are female, and about 15 percent of the service is 

made up of females. So, women, female veterans, obviously, are attending—are over-indexing there. But when we look at the dependent indicator, it is about six to seven percent. So, about six to seven 

percent of the spouses are showing up in the Boots to Business 

class. So, we think even without marketing or doing outreach to 

the spouses that we are getting some pretty good traction in that 

area here. But, we have a lot of spouses. 

You know, when I was on active duty and I PCSed around the 

Nation, it was kind of by magic, it was my spouse who helped me 

with a lot of that step. And so we see a lot of the spouses coming 

with the active duty service member and it is a team effort, as 

Colonel Anderson mentioned. 

Senator ENZI. I think that might help with the adjustment a lot. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Yes, absolutely. 

Mr. Dirks, you had your placard up, and then I am going to get 

you, Mr. Haynie, and then Mr. Wynn. 

Mr. DIRKS. So, I will answer a few different questions that have 

come up since I put my card up, but the main one is I wanted to 

make sure we cover, you know, first is what can we do to better 

reach those that are exiting, better prepare them for an entrepreneur endeavor. The first thing is we must reauthorize or au-
16 

thorize the four programs that we have already mentioned that you 

are sponsoring in your bill. That is an absolute first. 

I will use two military terms in my next recommendations. One 

is coordination of effort and two is force multiplication. These are 

two proven, necessary applications that we find in our Armed 

Forces for the last 200 years, that it has only been in the last 15 

that we have gotten some sense of progress. But, if we apply those 

to what we are seeing in the military transition environment, it is 

very logical. 

Coordination of effort, we have already mentioned, already at 

this panel, that we are all working on different programs that we 

are just not talking maybe as efficiently as we could be coordinating those resources, making them more efficient. 

But more importantly, I found out this morning that there are 

2,399,992 other folks like me out there in this country. And I am 

exceptionally motivated to help my fellow veterans get jobs. I have 

put a few hundred of them to work, but also to help those that are 

entrepreneurially inclined to start a business, whether they are my 

employee or not. We have 2.4 million folks that are sitting out here 

as resources that do not even know we are out there. 

So, leveraging those forces and delivering those resources to 

whatever program is most applicable—I know for myself, I would 

speak that I would be more efficient in my own volunteering of my 

time and the effort just to be more knowledgeable, connect that 

network in whatever meaningful way to provide that information 

and—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Very important, and with the Internet, it 

makes it so possible to do this. 

Dr. Haynie, you must—and then I will get you, Mr. Wynn—you 

must have some ideas about this, because you run a consortium of, 

what, eight universities, and how do you all coordinate with not 

only your program, in which you are leveraging a small amount of 

money and getting a lot of private money, but how do you leverage 

with these other programs? 

Mr. HAYNIE. Yes. I think it goes back to something both Rhett 

and Lou talked about that I will respond to as a way to answer this 

question. I think we—it is hard to overstate the historic opportunity that Boots to Business represents. If you look back to World 

War II, and we have, doing research, 11.8 million Americans shouldered the burden of that war. Within seven years of the end of that 

war, according to the VA, almost 54 percent of them had started 

small businesses in this country. They really built the foundation 

for this country to become a technological and global superpower. 

And we somehow, over the course of the last 50 years, forgot to 

talk about transitioning—to transitioning service members about 

business ownership as a post-service opportunity. When EBV was 

an idea in my head when I got out of the military in 2006, at some 

point, I realized I had to actually go out and recruit some veterans 

to participate, and I talked my way into a Wednesday morning 

Commanders Call at Walter Reed, you know, 400 soldiers/patients 

in a gym, and I do not think the folks that organized it knew what 

I was there to—they just thought he was a college professor going 

to talk to them about going to school. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Little did they know what you had in mind. 
17 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. HAYNIE. And I got up and I started talking to them about 

business ownership, but the lesson here is, after I was finished, the 

vocational counselor who had set that whole thing up pulled me 

into a room and she actually yelled at me and she said, ‘‘Do not 

come down here talking to them about business ownership. It is too 

hard. They are going to fail, and if they fail, we will be the ones 

that get blamed.’’ 

We have come—and I sort of knew what I was up against at that 

point. If you looked at the official TAP program at the time, looked 

in the manual, there was one paragraph on page 200 or whatever 

it was that said, and, oh, by the way, maybe you can also start a 

business. We are now talking about institutionalizing business 

ownership as one of the formal transition pathways out of the military for all of our service members. I think the potential is historic, 

and I am not one prone to be dramatic. But I think it is historic. 

But, I think it also—to your question, I finally get around to it— 

it serves as a coordinating mechanism if we can institutionalize 

that pathway, to all of these other efforts and programs. It connects folks to the SBDCs. It connects folks to the VBOCs. It becomes a feeder to all of the private sector programs and efforts in 

a way that becomes formalized and not sort of ad hoc, as it is now. 

And that is why I think it is so important—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. To get it funded. 

Mr. HAYNIE. And then to lose—full disclosure. So, my team designed the curriculum and the model for Boots to Business, and we 

took everything that we learned from EBV, all those university 

partners, and built that curriculum and model. So, Boots to Business is also my response to, how do we scale? This is how we scale. 

We get Boots to Business institutionalized. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And, Senator, before you came in, Boots to 

Business has been proposed by the administration over and over 

at, what, $7 million, but it is not funded, and they are just scraping 

money together to try to—because we are operating on CRs. So, it 

is really interesting to see how much we could leverage with, really, a relatively small investment. And thank you for that historical 

perspective. 

Let me get you, Mr. Wynn, and then Mr. Anderson. 

Mr. WYNN. Thank you. I just want to kind of bring this together 

and not lose sight of another very important piece of which we 

started these programs. As I mentioned earlier, in 1999, when we 

started developing this veterans entrepreneurship program here in 

America, they created the Office of Veterans Business Development, where Rhett is now Associate Administrator, so that we 

would actually—veterans would have a place designated within the 

SBA to specifically focus on ways to bring veterans more into opportunities for entrepreneurship. And in so doing, there was also 

this mandate to create opportunities within the Federal marketplace. So, while all veteran business owners or all persons do not 

necessarily want to do business with the Federal Government, I 

think we owe it to those veterans and to the programs that were 

created and to the Federal agencies that are out here searching for 

veteran business owners to satisfy those requirements to also bring 

them into that Federal marketplace. 
18 

Now, each of the programs that were mentioned, Boots to Business, Dr. Haynie’s programs, are excellent programs educating veterans about entrepreneurship, and all I am saying is I think it is 

also necessary that we find a way to bring some of them, anyway, 

some of them, into our Federal marketplace to satisfy that piece of 

this whole entrepreneurship pie. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Does anybody want to comment on that? Mr. 

Anderson, you can if you want to, or you can comment on whatever 

you had in mind. 

Colonel ANDERSON. It all kind of relates anyhow. When talking 

with this, I think a challenge everyone at this table has—the prime 

challenge is being able to reach back far enough. And, like I said, 

I admire the efforts of what the Department of Labor is doing 

through TAP GPS and the other equivalents with the services. But, 

how to reach back and make sure the service member is even 

aware that this is an option is the challenge. When you get that 

figured out, something that has to be said is the environment is 

going to become more complex, just—right now, we talk about the 

blocked, segmented approach. Once it becomes more complex, 

which is reflective of the outside world, by the way, which is going 

to be beneficial to the service member, beneficial to the family and 

all that, that is the kind of the environmental shift that has to take 

place to set the stage. 

Now, the other piece I want to make is why this is so popular 

with spouses is because—and this is male and female, by the way, 

because I talk to a lot of them—the spouse network has it figured 

out. They already know that this model is effective where the service member has the ecosystem from which to spring a business, 

whether it be a combined business, spouse-owned business, or anything like that. 

But, again, the key thing is being able to reach back into a very, 

very busy military career with people that have nonstop training 

modules to begin with for everything you could dream of and then 

being able to somehow let them know that there are other options 

out there and have that flow somewhat seamlessly into a career entrepreneur type—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. But is that not going to take a lot of cooperation from the Department of Defense, which this committee does 

not have jurisdiction over but which we can have some influence 

with, which is what I am hoping this roundtable will give us some 

information to petition to the Department of Defense or to bring 

this to their attention. So, we will come back to that in a minute. 

Do you all have any other questions or comments, because I want 

to continue to take some of their—Mr. Ferguson, you have had 

your placard up for a while. 

Mr. FERGUSON. Well, Senator, I wanted to address your point on 

technology, and I think it connects directly to Mr. Dirks’ comments 

about force multiplication. In my mind, technology is, obviously, a 

vital piece to this puzzle, not only because it provides the 

scalability for a lot of these answers and for the ability to aggregate a lot of these quality programs. 

But, as Mr. Dirks said, the fact that he heard today that there 

were 2.499 other million veterans in the same boat, you know, we 

originally responded to an instance in the hospital where there was 
19 

a wounded bomb tech on one wing of the hospital that did not 

know there was a wounded bomb tech on the other wing of the hospital. 

So, the ability for technology to meaningfully connect the valuable programs—and there is no shortage of valuable programs and 

content—but technology should be part of the scalability of this, 

but I think it is also very important to look at this generation of 

9/11 warfighter responds—not only responds, but in a lot of ways 

demands answers and technology literally in the palm of their 

hands. And if you cannot hit these guys and gals where they live 

in terms of technology and expectations of, you know, good video 

multimedia content, it is very difficult to be relevant with this generation of warfighter. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Mr. Celli. 

Mr. CELLI. Thank you, Senator, and I would like to respond to 

your Boots to Business question earlier. You know, over the course 

of the ten years—first of all, I spent 22 years in the Army. I can 

tell you that my experience has been that DOD sees these types 

of programs as competition. They are looking for reenlistments. 

They are not looking to educate people into the job force or into entrepreneurship, and that is just a personal observation. 

With regard to Boots to Business—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. But, when you think about that, I mean, not to 

continue to go back to this point, but when you think about it from 

a taxpayers’ point of view, all of the money that goes into the training of our military, which is extraordinary, and for us then to not 

take out of that appropriately, in an appropriate way, the benefit 

of that for the same taxpayer is what this roundtable is about. 

We do not have anyone from the Department of Defense here, so 

we cannot go too, too far down this, but we may do a second panel 

on this because I feel so strongly about it. I am determined, as the 

Chair of this committee, to hone down and find the best programs 

that are working, which ones are scalable, and how can we give our 

veterans a real opportunity to create their own businesses based a 

lot on the assets we have already paid for, I mean, not throwing 

a whole lot of new money at something, but using the assets of the 

universities, of our training programs, like you have used, Mr. 

Haynie, so beautifully, at $5,000 input and a $45,000 value out for 

the men and women that you are—but go ahead. I did not mean 

to interrupt. 

Mr. CELLI. Well, no, and I could not agree more. I mean, entrepreneurial assessments will determine that there are several ways 

that people become entrepreneurs. One of them is through necessity. One of them is through a vacuum in the marketplace. And one 

of them, with military service, when my colleagues that I went to 

school with went into the workforce, they fully expected that that 

job that they were applying for would prepare them to elevate to 

the next level of employment. It is not so in the military. Once you 

complete your military service, it is almost like you are starting 

over in the workforce. So, entrepreneurship, small business ownership, becomes exactly those outlets that you talk about with regard 

to leveraging that expertise and resource. 

To round back to the Boots to Business model, over the course 

of ten years, I have had the opportunity of using several off-the- 
20 

shelf programs. The Kauffman Foundation puts out the New Venture program. Next Level puts out a program. And the beauty 

about the Boots to Business package is that it is a nice off-the-shelf 

entrepreneurship basic training with military-minded writers who 

understand the nature of what we do. Unfortunately, due to the restrictions in the budget, we are really not even able to roll that out 

to the average veteran right now. It is currently being restricted 

only to the TAP programs. 

So, there is a wonderful resource that was specifically designed 

for our community that we have needed since 1999. It is the first 

time we have been able to write our own doctrine and we cannot 

even afford to use it. We cannot even offer—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. For $7 million. Yes, for a shortage of $7 million. 

Mr. CELLI. And that is just a start. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Mr. Rehder, and then Mr. Anderson. 

Mr. REHDER [off microphone]. Somewhere around a million 

transitioning veterans from active duty that all of you all are familiar with, those numbers, in the next five years, and we know that 

some 30 percent of those numbers will choose through the ACAP 

and TAP program an entrepreneur route. So, that is 300,000 veterans, men and women, that we will need to train. 

Now, if you look at the grassroots situation that I mentioned, 

that these folks are not able through a lack of financial literacy to 

understand all of these wonderful programs. They have one—they 

have one that is adopted by ACAP and by TAP and by the DOD 

and their commanders have been instructed to have these folks go 

to these meetings, and that is the Boots to Business program. And 

the programs that I have worked with, and we have a lot of public 

and private partnerships. We work with all of the SBA-funded resource partners and we enjoy working with them. 

This program will reach all of those transitioning veterans. It is 

the best one that I could—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Do you think you could reach all 300,000 if we 

do it correctly? 

Mr. CELLI. Yes, ma’am. Exactly. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Mr. Rowe. 

Mr. ROWE. Thank you, ma’am. I thought you would call on Mr. 

Ferguson or Rhett first, but—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. I am sorry. I got confused. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. ROWE. That is okay. You know, everyone has been talking 

about coordination of effort, and I heard Mr. Celli stay Boots to 

Business is a Cadillac program. But—and I am not a veteran, I am 

a car nut, so I look at it more as I think it could honestly be—while 

it is Cadillac in quality, more like a Model T, because I think we 

can build out the assembly line. We can coordinate the effort, and 

we have the resources for force multiplication. We are already 

doing a lot of work with Rhett’s folks through the SBDCs. I mean, 

he can attest to how well attended the training that he did at our 

annual conference was. 

And our folks are operating out of 63 networks that are mostly 

at colleges and universities, so I think we have got a great potential to expand beyond the eight universities that are already working with Dr. Haynie. Two, Wharton in Pennsylvania and the 
21 

Eisenberg School in Massachusetts, and as that expands, that will 

necessarily bring the cost down, because if you are not bringing a 

veteran from Iowa up to Syracuse but rather to Des Moines—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Iowa State, yes. 

Mr. ROWE [continuing]. It is going to be that much easier and 

that much more cost effective. So, I see a lot of potential in this 

and I see it, finally, as something that we can coalesce our efforts 

for veterans around. 

It is both I consider a feather in my cap that I worked hard with 

Chairman Talent on 106–50. I am also a little embarrassed by 

some of the parts that did not work so well. But, that intent and 

that framework is still there, which is to build a comprehensive 

veterans assistance program through the SBA. 

Now, as far as what you said about the assets and what Senator 

Fischer talked about, there is a provision in 106–50 which specifically talks about working on certification. There are so many skills 

that men and women in the services come out with that are applicable, but are not necessarily exactly what the commercial world 

sees as the appropriate skill set for servicing jet aircraft or servicing anything, but could easily be adapted. There was supposed to 

be a certification panel developed. I still believe that needs to be 

developed so that young men and women who are coming out with 

skills and now they are more, frankly, computer related, can step 

in to a world where they can establish their own business, whether 

it is doing systems integration or whatever, without having to relearn the wheel, if you will. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I want to come back to that in a minute. It is 

an interesting point between the jurisdiction of the Department of 

Labor making those certifications level for people that are leaving 

the service as an airplane tech, going in to work with Boeing as 

an airplane tech, and matching that up so that they do not miss 

out or lose the opportunity. This committee is really more focused 

on the entrepreneurship jump and what we need to do to smooth 

that out to give them more of a chance. 

Mr. Jeppson, go ahead. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am. I just want to follow up on a couple 

of things here, and just maybe I could help frame a little bit of it 

out. I think that one of the things that—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. You have got to lean into your microphone. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am. I apologize. 

Chair LANDRIEU. I am sorry. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Just to follow up on a couple of things, Mike mentioned the framework that Boots to Business represents. I can give 

you a couple of concrete examples of that, is we have had a lot of 

people from higher institutions of learning, like Harvard Business 

School, et cetera, et cetera, want to participate in a program with 

veterans and be able to introduce them to their network of angel 

investors and things like that, but this presents an opportunity for 

us to coalesce the various efforts around the country and then we 

could have force multipliers with that. 

Additionally, and this goes back—I sit on the Veterans Employment Initiative Task Force in my role as Associate Administrator. 

That is comprised of the Department of Labor, Defense, and VA, 

and we oversee the new Transition GPS. As part of the new Transi-
22 

tion GPS, which is a transition program for veterans, they are moving to what they call the military lifecycle. 

And so early on, just after a recruit or entry-level officer joins the 

service, they will actually receive a little bit of TAP training, if you 

will, which talks about where do they see themselves going when 

they exit the service, whether it is four years of entry-level service 

or when they retire. So, the idea is just to begin to tie the service 

member to a kind of a pathway or what they expect to accomplish 

in the service and where they see themselves going after they leave 

the service, whether it is after four years or what. 

So, there has been some thought, pretty serious thought, that 

has gone into this, but TAP is new. The new Transition GPS is 

new. It is just being implemented. So, this will come in the second 

phase here, but the service is thinking about that. 

Again, when we look at the Boots to Business delivery model, I 

think one of the strengths of the Boots to Business delivery model, 

when you look—with the new TAP GPS, there are four tracks. 

There is higher education, there is traditional employment, vocational tech, and then entrepreneurship. The way that we deliver 

entrepreneurship is through our resource partner network in the 

District Offices. So we have the SCORE chapters, the SBDCs. Actually, people who deal on this day to day, actually going on post 

and delivering that curriculum. In my opinion, that is a lot better 

than sending contractors down there to do it and it is a more cost 

effective way and it leverages the SBA resource network. 

The other part that it does, and I can tell you from personal experience, as a Marine who came back out of Desert Storm and took 

over a family business, I wish I would have known the SBDC was 

about 45 miles away from my house and that there was a VBOC 

down there I could have gone and talked to. It would have saved 

me a lot of headaches. We introduce the service members early on 

to that SBA network and there is huge value in that. 

Chair LANDRIEU. That is such an important comment, and let me 

get Mr. Anderson—that is such an important comment or point 

about making sure that the veterans that we are encouraging, if 

they want to, to think about their next step as a business owner, 

to at least be introduced to the network of assets that are already 

there, both public and private. Forget whatever the VA is doing, 

just what is there for anyone in America that wanted to start their 

own business, you know, is getting that information out as to what 

services are there for them at either no cost or very minimal cost, 

and to connect the veterans. Like you said, it would have been good 

for you to know there was a center 45 minutes from you that could 

have helped you with sharpening your business plan, et cetera, et 

cetera. So this is very exciting. 

Let me get you, Colonel Anderson, and then I will come back to 

you. 

Colonel ANDERSON. Sure, and I just recently went through the 

TAP GPS class back in February, so I know the efforts that are 

being made, but, again, the challenge being getting back early 

enough. I have read about the career lifecycle efforts that are being 

made, and that is kind of what I was alluding to before, is that— 

again, personal comments here—the DOD needs to be okay with 

people—if we are going to do what the Department of Labor sug-
23 

gests and everything else with the SBA, they need to be okay with 

people doing extracurricular activities in their off-time. Again, 

clearly not during duty hours, clearly not using government equipment, clearly not using any assets that are those, but in their own 

time doing that, and the DOD, if they were okay with that, that 

would set the environment that I was talking about before. 

Another part of that that you guys kind of beat me to the punch 

is that I have used the SBA for the last three years. I mean, there 

are, I think, 48 offices in Virginia. I probably hit four of them. I 

go there frequently. They know me. They have helped develop me 

for extremely low cost to self, and again, I am all about doing the 

self-funding and also advocating the self-funding because it teaches 

you some very important lessons. 

When I mentioned previously that it is going to become a more 

complex environment, I guess I did not address the fact that it is 

already complex with the DOD current approach, where you do 

your service, then you become a veteran, and then the programs 

become effective for the most part tailor-made toward the veterans. 

Well, right now, I mean, you can already see that the complexity 

is that you carry on your service, then you become a veteran, and 

then even the government is segmented as DOD and then VA. So 

you can see that it is just how the approach has been mostly laid 

out, and it looks like we are making solid groundwork on altering 

that a little bit, but—thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Great. And, Ms. Spann, let me get you and then 

Mr. Wynn. Can you tell us a bit more from your perspective about 

anything you want to comment about what you have heard, but 

also about the V–WISE program and how it either is the same or 

different. 

Ms. SPANN. Yes, ma’am. Thank you. Well, first of all, let me say 

that I am a huge advocate of the SBA programs. As a small business owner, I think I have leveraged just about all of them, starting with my local Small Business Development Center. I went 

there for counseling. My counselor helped focus me and get me on 

the right track to getting started in my business. 

Additionally, I went to V–WISE. Oh, man, that program was 

awesome. It was well organized. It was motivational, phenomenal 

instructors that did a phenomenal job of teaching and training the 

women that went through there. I left V–WISE thinking I could 

conquer the world. I definitely wanted to focus on the government 

contracting arena and getting business within the government. 

To Mr. Wynn’s point, again, I left V–WISE ready to conquer the 

Federal Government contracting business, but I had no idea on 

what to do next. That is what motivated me to form the WAVE, 

Women As Veteran Entrepreneurs. I knew that there were women 

business owners out there that had leveraged the programs, gone 

through V–WISE. Many of them attend WAVE seminars. But we 

did not know how to get government business after going through 

those programs. 

What we did with the WAVE is that we brought together government agencies, because those are the people that we wanted to do 

business with, and we asked them, what do we have to do, as a 

small business, to do business with you? Also—as a small business, 

just starting off, you hear a lot. You get a lot of recommendations 
24 

to—you need to partner with larger business to get into the Federal Government, to get past performance. Well, we also invited in 

large businesses and prime contractors and we asked them to tell 

the business owners, what is it that you are looking for in a small 

business to partner with? And, we invited in the small businesses, 

to network and partner with each other. 

Chair LANDRIEU. The world of government contracting is very 

complicated. 

Ms. SPANN. Yes. 

Chair LANDRIEU. We spend a lot of time on that in this committee, and we are making some progress. The Federal Government has overall goals that each Department has to set contracting 

with small businesses particularly, and it can be a real maze for 

many of the small businesses, and some danger, actually, contracting with the Federal Government, if you are not paid on time 

or if there is a squabble in the process. If you are too small and 

dealing with a big agency, it could be detrimental to the business. 

On the other hand, we want to give small businesses an opportunity across the board. 

Mr. Wynn, and then we are going to move to another subject and 

wrap up in about 15 minutes. 

Mr. WYNN. Okay. Thank you. I do not want to just sound like 

part of the choir for the SBA, but SBA really should be very involved with veteran business owners. But we also mentioned a little bit about budgetary constraints, and actually, SBA has been 

woefully underfunded since this program started. So, they really 

have not been able to provide the level of services needed for veteran business owners that the veterans really truthfully deserve. 

Speaking of additional resources, as people come out of these entrepreneurship programs, the Veterans Business Outreach Centers. 

We had advocated and promoted the use of Veterans Business Outreach Centers for years. They just expanded a few years ago, and 

there are still, what, only maybe 16 around the country, and they 

are woefully underfunded. 

So, if we are going to set up this whole system, let us try to connect the dots. As we begin to increase the pool of capable and qualified veteran business owners from these other entrepreneurship 

programs, again, knowing that and understanding everybody is not 

trying to be a government contractor and you do not want to put 

all your business into just government contracting—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Correct. 

Mr. WYNN. But, we still have on the other side this mandate for 

government agencies to meet this mandatory requirement to use 

veteran business owners, so we cannot just—I do not think we 

should ignore that and not try to educate those that want to participate in the marketplace to be able to do that. 

We also had—I think in 2010 it was passed into law that the 

SBA Small Business Veterans Advisory Committee would be active 

and made permanent. Now, I am told the SBA has no funding to 

allow that committee to continue to form and do what it was designated to do. I know we also have the Interagency Task Force on 

Veterans Business Development, but it was real purposeful to have 

that Advisory Committee and I am sorry to see that it is no longer 

being formed and organized. 
25 

Chair LANDRIEU. Does anybody else have a comment about the 

importance of those advisory, or the lack thereof, whatever your position is, of the advisory boards and whether they should help or 

not, could help or not? And then I want to get back to something 

to you, Mr. Haynie, but Mr. Jeppson. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am. Just one point. As Joe mentioned, 

what we had was under 106–50 we did have the Veterans Advisory 

Committee. Last year, due to sequester and cutbacks, we were unable to allow—and the travel cap—we were not able to travel them 

last year. Normally, they will meet three times a year. We did not 

have the funding to do that. We encouraged them to meet by 

phone. It did not happen. 

But, quite frankly, we did have a number of people whose term 

was up in October. We have submitted new names and their first 

meeting is scheduled for early December. We are just making sure 

that we can get a quorum before we put it in the Federal Register. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Are we exploring any technological solutions to people meeting together, using some new technology, 

Skype, et cetera, which the private sector is using to some degree 

of success, I think, limiting their travel budgets and maximizing 

their impact? 

I am going to come back to that statement in a minute, but I 

want to get the question answered on this. There is a bill that is 

pending before the Congress to create a Veterans Business Outreach Center in every State. Right now, I think we have how many, 

15? Do we want to create a Veterans Center in every State? Is it 

necessary? And, if yes, please explain. If your view is no, how can 

those veterans be served through the network that is already 

there? Does anybody want to take that? Mr. Celli. 

Mr. CELLI. Well, again, thank you, Senator, and having run one 

of these centers, I can tell you that it is critically important to have 

one of these centers at a minimum in every State so that they can 

direct the veteran-centric services that are going to be required to 

service these veterans coming back. They can be the hub that connects them with Mike’s program, that connects them with Joe 

Wynn for contracting, or Harvetta. 

And right now, I understand that Tee Rowe’s network is assisting veterans, but there is no harmonious relationship between the 

Veterans Business Outreach Centers and the SBDCs. If anything, 

there is a sense of rivalry and competition there because they are 

both competing, in some cases, for the same dollars when it comes 

to grants. 

So, to ensure that there is a funding mechanism specifically to 

fund Veterans Business Outreach Centers, and if you look back at 

the success rate of these centers, it is well worth the investment. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And these centers do not have to be a standalone building. They can be a center designated by something else 

that is already there to leverage the investment that is made. 

Mr. Rehder. 

Mr. REHDER. Yes. The VBOCs, mine and all the ones that I work 

with, the furthest thing from our mind is power struggles and turf 

battles. We are a clearinghouse for referrals to our clients, our men 

and women veteran clients, to all of these resource partners that 

we have heard about today, and we do that on a very regular basis. 
26 

We take them as far as we can. But some of these folks can take 

them further and we refer our people to them and we have a wonderful referral system. So, I would certainly think that one in each 

State would be an outstanding benefit to our veterans. 

Chair LANDRIEU. And I am going to get Mr. Dirks, and then I 

am going to ask you all, as we close, to think of your last sort of 

two-minute wrap-up, something that I did not ask that you want 

to ask and answer yourself, something that you want to add to this 

discussion, and then we are going to close out. Mr. Dirks. 

Mr. DIRKS. Thank you, ma’am. Again, going back to the multiplication, you know, I personally give somewhere between 

$100,000 and $150,000 a year in in-kind and cash contributions to 

veteran entrepreneurship programs. I have many friends who are 

also veterans who own businesses in New Orleans and in Lafayette 

and in Baton Rouge who do something with me because I ask them 

to. 

With a mechanism like an Outreach Center in every State, I 

think that is probably one of the more efficient, quicker ways to 

start to really engage our community of business owners or veterans who are service-minded, who are giving-oriented. Even if it 

were $100 per 2.4 million of us, that is real, real money in either 

in-kind mentorship service or even cash. This requires someone to 

be a clearinghouse. It requires someone that is agnostic, that is not 

fighting over funding with other agencies and can be a true 

leverager of all those pieces to do so, and I think the Outreach Center can do that. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Okay. Let us start with you, Mr. Wynn, and we 

are going to go around the room, just a two-minute wrap-up, anything that you want to either underscore or put on the Congressional record. 

Mr. WYNN. Thank you. I appreciate it, and I appreciate having 

had the opportunity to participate in this discussion. 

There is one thing I do want to share and put out there. There 

is a piece of legislation coming out of the House, H.R. 2882, and 

actually, it talks about moving the VA verification process from the 

VA to the SBA. So, here again, we have the SBA involved in a very 

important part of veterans who are doing business, entrepreneurs 

and with the Federal contracting. So, many of us, we have been 

doing surveys and polls over the past two or three months and the 

majority of the feedback we have gotten is that the veteran business owners do support moving the process from VA to the SBA. 

In addition, though, I personally would like to see a Vets First 

program, as is being conducted in the VA, to be conducted Federalwide, throughout the whole Federal Government, that veterans 

come first and that we put those veteran entrepreneurs at the top 

of the line. It is a program that is not costing the Federal Government any additional money because the mandate is already there 

to use veterans. So, all they have to do is continue to find ways to 

create contracting opportunities for veteran business owners. 

Again, we want them to be capable and qualified, of course. But, 

then, who better to hire veterans than other veterans? So, you also 

help to solve the equation of veterans’ employment. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. 

Mr. Rowe. 
27 

Mr. ROWE. I think—and I just want to follow up on what Mr. 

Celli said—I think the biggest thing that we need to think about 

is coordination. I think the idea of Veterans Outreach Centers in 

all 50 States is a great idea because I think the biggest problem 

we have is coordination. We run VBOCs in Florida and New York 

and a couple of other States, and then we have great working relationships with the folks in North Carolina and Louisiana. 

But—and this goes to Rhett’s problem, and I will just give you 

a little anecdote. Rhett was down at the NAGGL conference in 

California just the other week asking the folks there, the folks in 

the lending community, for some assistance and some cash donations. I was sitting there thinking, my God, what is next? The 

VBOs have got to run a bake sale to get their job done? 

[Laughter.] 

We all share that mission, and what Mr. Celli said is correct. We 

should not be fighting over resources. There should not be a fight 

for resources. The $7 million that Rhett needs—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Is a drop in the bucket. 

Mr. ROWE. Yes. I guess that is a word. It is the nicest word. 

[Laughter.] 

So, I think it is coordination of effort which will obviously make 

all of our efforts cost effective. But then it is the knowledge that 

the resources are there for us to coordinate off of. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. 

Mr. Ferguson. 

Mr. FERGUSON. Yes. Just to tag on, really, to what a number of 

people have said here today about the importance of coordination 

among the different assets, be they public, be they private, force 

multiplication. 

I think what I would like to really underline is the role that technology has to play in that and, again, how that ties to this generation of warfighter and their relationship and demands on technology, their expectation that resources be in the palm of their 

hand. I certainly do not for a second doubt that it is vital to have 

a veteran location, as we have discussed, in every single State, but 

I still think there needs to be a digital connective tissue throughout 

these programs to amplify these positive resources as well as really 

speak to this generation of warfighter and how they expect information. 

We have a fully funded multi-platform collaboration network 

that the DOD has done all of the heavy lifting on. The government 

has purpose rights to this application, and I would be happy to 

work with anybody on the committee to figure out how that application, which, again, the government has purpose rights to, can be 

repurposed to be part of the solution set. Thank you. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you very much, Chris. 

Dr. Haynie. 

Mr. HAYNIE. I think the rest of my roundtable panel members 

have done a good job with—normally, I think I would end with 

something strategic, but I am going to put one more issue on the 

table that we did not spend a lot of time on today and that is our 

female veterans, and I want to do that in the context of V–WISE. 

V–WISE was never legislated. It was a program that was funded 

initially with discretionary funds from the SBA. Karen Mills, when 
28 

she was Administrator, had some additional funding and she said, 

let us create a national training program for female veterans. 

Honestly, I pushed back initially. As an entrepreneurship professor, I remember saying to her specifically, I would not train a 

woman to be a business owner any differently than I would train 

a man. As a veteran, I jumped right to veterans or veterans. But, 

we went forward. We built the program, offered it for the first time 

in 2010 down in San Antonio. That was the first city we took it to. 

And I remember vividly arriving at the registration table, and I 

could not understand why there were so many women crying—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Crying? 

Mr. HAYNIE. Crying. And I started asking questions, and what 

we heard is that many of these women that participated in this 

program had been out of the military five, seven, ten, 15 years and 

had never participated in a veterans-related event before, and the 

only reason they were participating in V–WISE was that it was 

only women, and we asked why, and we heard things like, you 

know, ‘‘I do not always feel welcome,’’ ‘‘I do not always feel like I 

can share.’’ We also heard—and now, since that time, a lot of this 

has come out—we also heard over and over again, ‘‘I do not feel 

safe.’’ ‘‘I do not feel physically safe.’’ 

And so I had to eat my words, I guess is where I am going, is 

that I was wrong to push back. I think we have to acknowledge 

that the veterans community is diverse and made up of individuals 

with different goals, aspirations, experiences, backgrounds, and 

fears. We have to also, as we talk about then designing programs 

and networks or programs and ecosystems, do so acknowledging 

that, for example, our community of female veterans, who I have 

come to believe are the most underserved segment of the veterans 

community, have a different set of needs and there is not one solution, strategy, that is really going to satisfy and best empower this 

community broadly moving forward. So—— 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you, Dr. Haynie, for that testimony. I 

really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing that. 

Mr. Rehder. 

Mr. REHDER. Thank you. I have seen up close and personal our 

clients establish an enduring, sustaining business. That is the 

American dream for most of the clients that I work with. It is absolutely a moving experience for me, and I am sure for all of us in 

this room. 

I will end by thanking this committee and Congress and the SBA 

for its funding and support and I will move on with better and 

more meaningful programs in the future. Thank you, ma’am. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you, Mr. Rehder. 

Colonel Anderson. 

Colonel ANDERSON. Thank you. And, I think I could pretty safely 

say we all are looking for the same result here, and that is higher 

employment, entrepreneurship for the veterans. I just look at it at 

a completely—not completely different, but a different pathway to 

do that. What I want to do is empower the person to actually control their own future and control the future of their family, as well. 

And my theory is, and as I work toward that in my current business model with Active Duty Entrepreneur, is empower them to do 

that. Get them from point A to point B. Show them that there is 
29 

another pathway. There is another pathway besides the military 

culture saying, I need to find something in the defense industry. 

It is just part of the DNA. I do not know how to explain it, but 

it just seems to be part of the construct. You show them that pathway. You let them know it is an option, and I think that they are 

going to take advantage of securing their own transition. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you for that vision. 

Mr. Dirks. 

Mr. DIRKS. Thank you, ma’am. You know, again to reiterate, 

there is an embedded level of a massive amount of resources in our 

community in this country. I am here to testify to that. I am an 

exemplifier of that. I can testify to at least a few hundred of those 

folks, not to the millions that evidently exist. But let us continue 

and endeavor to engage those resources in whatever ways we can, 

and your departments and your programs and the VBOCs, Dr. 

Haynie, the amazing work that you have done. 

We must authorize the three programs that he started and the 

Operations Centers that we have been so diligently working on, at 

a minimum, and then those programs to work to engage not only 

the veteran business owners themselves, but also just the overwhelming tens of millions of Americans that are available and willing to serve in this regard. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Ms. Spann. Thank you very much. 

Ms. SPANN. Thank you. I would just like to end with thanking 

you, ma’am, for all that you do to help our veteran entrepreneurs. 

It is necessary and very much appreciated. Thanks in advance for 

continuing to fight for us. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. Well, we thank the veterans for all 

they have done for our country over the many decades and centuries now and want to do everything we can to make sure we give 

them a path for continued success. 

Mr. Celli. 

Mr. CELLI. Thank you, Senator, and I would like to expand on 

what some of my esteemed colleagues here have mentioned today. 

You know, Aaron talked a little bit about spouses, and I think 

that that is critically essential to the viability of the future of DOD, 

because if you keep the spouses engaged, then they are going to be 

less resistant to moving every three years. They need something 

that is portable that they can take with them from duty station to 

duty station so that they are not worried about their next employment and leaning on the service member, saying, you know what? 

This might not be for us anymore. So, that was one thing. 

And, another thing is Bob kept talking about financial literacy, 

and I do not think that that really fully got vetted. No one in this 

room thinks that the Patriot Express or any of the 7(a) programs 

or any lending program should be free money for veterans. Quite 

the opposite. They should be competitive and difficult to get because the gauntlet needs to be gone through for a veteran in order 

to make sure that they understand what that money is going to be 

used for, and the only way to do that is through training. The only 

way to make sure that that business plan is solid and sound is if 

it goes through one of the experts that work with veterans and understand the dynamic of the way a veteran has that ‘‘can do’’ atti-
30 

tude and thinks that they cannot fail, because their entire military 

career, there has been a safety net in place for them. 

I would also like to talk about what Mr. Wynn said, that it is 

really criminal that our veterans come from the front lines to go 

to the back of the line in contracting. Our Nation, especially the 

Department of Defense, really should step up and create a program 

that honors their ability to understand the DOD intricate programs 

and contracting, as Colonel Anderson had mentioned, and also be 

able to recognize the fact that they took three, five, 20 years out 

of their lives and can now return the value of the education they 

received in DOD. 

On behalf of the American Legion, thank you for inviting us 

today to share our views. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you. Excellent. 

Mr. Jeppson, last word for you. 

Mr. JEPPSON. Yes, ma’am, just briefly. I would like to just real 

quickly recognize Robert Bailey, who is in the audience with us 

today. He is an EBV graduate, a small business owner here. Robert, if you want to raise your hand real quick. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Welcome, Robert. 

Mr. JEPPSON. He was just recently awarded a joint venture mentor protege program with SAIC. So, it is not SBA and it is not the 

joint mentorship that is helping a small business owner. It is him 

out there on himself, but we kind of helped maybe on the edges, 

and so we are very proud of that and we consider that our sacred 

trust and privilege at SBA, to be able to support our veterans community. 

Senator, we thank you for your leadership on this issue and 

hosting us here and we look forward to working with you and your 

staff to improve the processes for these veterans. 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you so much. 

Now, the record of this will stay open for two weeks for any additional information that you would like to submit. You all have access to each other’s information and location, et cetera. I really encourage you to keep this exchange going on between you. 

Our staff is going to take all this under advisement, look at the 

bills that have been filed in Congress on the subject and try to use 

the benefit of the testimony here to shape those bills and requests 

for funding to advance the ideas that were put forth today. 

So, thank you all very much. Continue to use the staff as a resource to help you accomplish what you hope to do. 

[The information for the record follows:] 

Chair LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. Meeting adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:24 a.m., the committee was adjourned.] 
(31) 

APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED 
32 

U.S SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20416 

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF 

RHETT JEPPSON 

ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR 

U.S. SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION 

BEFORE THE 

U.S. SENATE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

NOVEMBER 13,2013 

Senator Landrieu, thank you for inviting me here today. I would also like to welcome all of the Veterans 

and small business owners who are joining us for this discussion. 

It is an honor to highlight SBA's efforts to support veteran entrepreneurs throughout the country. 

Each year, there are over 250,000 service members transitioning out of our military. These veterans 

possess the unique skills, experience, leadership and drive that make them ideally suited to start 

businesses and create jobs in their communities. 

As small business owners, veterans continue to serve our country by creating critical employment 

opportunities and driving economic growth. 

According to the most recent U.S. Census data, nearly one in ten small businesses are veteran-owned. 

These businesses generate about $1.2 trillion in receipts and employ nearly 5.8 million Americans. 

Studies have also shown that veterans over index in entrepreneurship. In the private sector workforce, 

veterans are at least 45 percent more likely than those with no active-duty military experience to be selfemployed. 

At the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA), we are focused on ensuring that these veterans have 

access to the capital, counseling and federal contracting opportunities they need to start and grow 

successful businesses and create jobs. 

In FY 2013, SBA approved more than 3,000 loans to veteran-owned businesses, supporting more than 

$1.8 billion nationally. Last week SBA announced a new measure to get even more small business loans 

into the hands of our nation's veterans. 

Of all SBA loans that go to veterans, 73 percent are $350,000 and below. The SBA Express Loan 

Program, which supports loans under $350,000, is SBA's most popular loan delivery method. Since the 

program's inception, it has also been one of the most popular delivery methods for getting capital into 

the hands bf veteran borrowers. 
33 

Effective January 1, SBA is setting the upfront fee for borrowers to zero for all veteran loans authorized 

under the SBA Express program for the remainder of the fiscal year, effectively making these loans 

cheaper for borrowers and further increasing access to capital for the men and women who have served 

our nation's military. 

This year, SBA also challenged our top national and regional lenders to pledge to increase their lending 

activity to veterans by five percent each year for the next five years. With this support from our lending 

partners, SBA expects to serve an additional 2,000 veterans and increase lending by $475 million. 

Our studies have shown that small business owners who have a long-term counselor are more likely to 

hire, grow, and increase revenues. In 2013, with our resource partner network including Veterans 

Business Opportunities Centers (VBOCs), Small Business Development Centers (SBDCs), Women's 

Business Centers (WBDCs) and SCORE volunteers, SBA has helped train and counsel more than 

107,000 veteran business owners to date. 

One of the ways we have done this is through public-private partnerships like the one with the Institute 

for Veterans and Military Families to provide intensive entrepreneurship training courses such as the 

Entrepreneurship Boot Camp for Veterans with Disabilities (EBV), and our Women Veterans Igniting 

the Spirit of Entrepreneurship (V-WISE), which focus on training, networking and mentorship for 

veterans. 

On January I, 2013, SBA also began rolling out "Operation Boots to Business: From Service to 

Startup." A nationwide entrepreneurship training program in partnership with the Department of 

Defense, Boots to Business is currently offered to transitioning service members from all branches of the 

armed forces at more than 150 military locations across the country. If the Fiscal Year 2014 Budget 

request level is funded, we plan to significantly ramp up the program. 

In addition to our capital and counseling programs, SBA also supports small businesses engaged in 

federal contracting. For the first time ever, the federal government also exceeded its three percent goal 

to contract with service disabled veteran-owned small businesses. In FY 2012, veteran-owned small 

businesses won more than $12.2 billion in federal contracting business and increase of 9 percent in one 

year. 

While we are proud of our successes, we continue to develop new ways to assist more aspiring veteran 

entrepreneurs. After World War II, our nation's veterans helped reshape the American economycontributing to one of the longest periods of economic growth in our country's history. At SBA, and 

across the Obama Administration, we know that with the right tools and opportunities, our nation's 

veterans can continue to build our economy for the long-term. 

Thank you again for welcoming me here today. 

2 
34 

Rhett Jeppson Biography 

Rhett Jeppson's wide range experience includes extensive military service, small business 

management, and directing a state's procurement activities. As a result, he was appointed as the 

Associate Administrator for the U.S. Small Business Administration's Office of Veterans 

Business Development in April of2012. 

In 1988, Mr. Jeppson completed the Basic Officer Course and The Infantry Officer Course and 

then reported to the 1st Marine Division at Camp Pendleton, California where he served as a 

Rifle Platoon, Company Executive Officer, and a principal Battalion Staff officer. During this 

time, Rhett first experienced combat with 3rd Battalion 9th Marines during Operation Desert 

Storm. 

Following Desert Storm, Rhett left active duty with the Marine Corps to return to Florida in 1991 

and tended to his family and father's business while his father underwent a bone marrow 

transplant for Leukemia. While running the family business, Rhett learned first-hand the 

rewards and challenges of managing a small business. 

Four years later, Rhett returned to active service with Special Operations Command 

Central. The position honed his skills as a leader, and in 1999, it lead him to an 

opportunity with the State of Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation, first 

as the Deputy Director of Pari-Mutuel Wagering and then as the Special Assistant to the 

Secretary. In 2000, Rhett became the Director of State Purchasing, overseeing the execution of 

all state contracts and statewide procurement vehicles. 

In the wake of the September 11, 2001, attacks, Rhett was recalled to service and reported to 

U.S. Marine Forces Europe. Later he joined the U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, 

Florida, with subsequent assignments with the U.S. Forces Afghanistan, and the U.S. European 

Command. 

Rhett is a graduate the University of Florida, and a Lieutenant Colonel in the United States 

Marine Corps Reserve. 
35 

OPENING STATEMENT OF 

LOUIS J. CELLI 

NATIONAL DIRECTOR, LEGISLATIVE DIVISION 

THE AMERICAN LEGION 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS & ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ON 

A ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION 

SERVING OUR SERVICE MEMBERS: 

A REVIEW OF PROGRAMS FOR VETERAN ENTREPRENEURS 

NOVEMBER 13, 2013 
36 

Chairwoman Landrieu, Ranking Member Risch, and distinguished Members of the Committee; 

According to a Kauffman Institute report; between 1996 and until three years ago, U.S. veterans 

started companies at higher rates than their non-veteran peers, and accounted for 12.3 percent of 

all entrepreneurs in the United States. By 2011 that percentage was slashed by more than 50 

percent and is now an alarming six percent. 

On behalf of the two and a half million members of The American Legion, we thank you for the 

opportunity to discuss The American Legion's views at this Round table discussion. We 

appreciate the efforts of this Committee to address the entrepreneurial needs of the men and 

women who are currently serving, and those who have served during past conflicts. 

In 1999, Congress found; 

(I) Veterans of the United States Armed Forces have been and continue to be vital to the small 

business enterprises of the United States. 

(2) In serving the United States, veterans often faced great risks to preserve the American 

dream of freedom and prosperity. 

(3) The United States has done too little to assist veterans, particularly service-disabled 

veterans, in playing a greater role in the economy of the United States by forming and 

expanding small business enterprises. 

(4) Medical advances and new medical technologies have made it possible for service-disabled 

veterans to playa much more active role in the formation and expansion of small business 

enterprises in the United States. 

(5) The United States must provide additional assistance and support to veterans to better equip 

them to form and expand small business enterprises, thereby enabling them to realize the 

American dream that they fought to protect. 

Section 101, 15 USC 657b - better known within the veteran small business community as 

Public Law 106-50. That preamble could have just as easily have been written today, and we are 

here today to discuss programs that will begin to address the disparities veterans business owners 

face, that civilian businesses simply do not. 

While there are some promising programs like the VWISE (Veteran Women Igniting the Spirit 

of Entrepreneurship), and EBV (Entrepreneurship Bootcamp for Veterans), these programs were 

not designed or built to service an entire nation of veterans. 

The SBA (Small Business Administration), as a result of P.L. 106-50 opened the Office of 

Veterans Business Development, and over the course of almost 15 years, has only been able to 

grow to 14 Veteran Business Development outreach centers in that time, while other SBA 

outreach offices have experienced double and triple that growth. These centers are the primary 

client generator for the veterans business outreach office, yet they are but an obscure link in the 
37 

middle of a webpage that has more than 50 such links that offer a variety of services ranging 

from Native American Business support, to a V A Facility Locator. 

In 2007, SBA Administrator Steve Preston introduced a lending program called The Patriot 

Express, but over the years, the strength of that program has been so diluted that is really isn't 

any more advantageous that other lending programs in the SBA portfolio. 

Our veterans deserve better. 

One of our members, Dave Krasner, owns a small IT business in New Orleans; He is a disabled 

veteran who was medically evacuated out of Iraq. When he applied for the Patriot Express loan, 

he was denied because of a bureaucratic administrative error that SBA was unable to compensate 

for. The mistake was eventually corrected, but Dave never did get that loan. 

We hope that today, we will be able to work with this committee and these round table 

participants to come up with innovative ideas that reinvigorate these struggling programs, and 

together, develop a strategy that provides the programs and support that our returning veterans 

deserve, and reverse the disturbing lack of participation from our veteran entrepreneurs in the 

regrowth of the American economic engine - small business development. 

Thank you and I look forward to working with all of you today. 

For additional iriformation regarding this testimony, please contact Mr. Louis Celli at The 

American Legion's Legislative Division, (202) 861-2700 or lcelli@legion.org. 
38 

Following his 22 year career in the United States Army, Master Sergeant 

Celli founded the Leaders Advantage, Inc. that sold sales and 

leadership training out of its 3 Boston area retail locations. 

In 2005 Louis Celli transformed the enterprise into a nonprofit 

called the Northeast Veterans Business Resource Center, inc. 

which is dedicated to assisting veteran entrepreneurs start and grow small 

businesses. 

Celli retired from NEVBRC in 2012 to become the Legislative Director 

for the Al11erican Legion - the largest veteran service organization in the 

United States, 

As a published columnist, 

development expeti, Louis has heen 

Business Journal, USA Today, Forbes, 

the Christian Science Monitor. 

Louis is a 

\vil~ Elise 

speaker, and nationally recognized small husiness 

in national and local media such as the Boston 

Fortune Small Business, National Puhlic Radio, and 

native or Boston Massachusetts, and together with his 

II to 22 old. 
39 

Harvetta is a former US 

officer. She has over 25 years of 

manager. Ms. has extensive 

and ":T""TI:'mr 

Ms. is the President of BLS Inc. is a 

company 

solutions. It is based 

business with 

and a sense of civic 

our Women Veterans. The Women In 

of Norfolk State 

she entered the United States where she had 

.ron""",.,,,,,, from 1985 to 1994. She served in the ranks of 
40 

WRITTEN INTRODUCTORY REMARKS OF HARVETTA SPANN 

PRESIDENT, BLS GROUP, INC. 

NOVEMBER 13, 2013 

My name is Harvetta Spann. 

I'm a former Army Logistics Officer, turned Corporate Executive, turn Entrepreneur. I'm also a graduate 

of Veteran Women Igniting the Spirit of Entrepreneurship (V-WISE). 

I'm the President of BLS Group Inc., a Meeting and Event Planning company based in Northern VA. 

I'm also the Co-Founder ofThe WAVE, Women as Veteran Entrepreneurs. The WAVE is an organization 

that creates forums that connect Veteran Woman Owned Small Businesses with government agencies 

and Prime contractors to help them grow their business. 

The WAVE was launched on March 21, 2011. We are currently planning our 4th Annual WAVE 

Seminar. It is scheduled for March 20, 2014 at the Women's Memorial at Arlington National Cemetery. 
41 

n 

from Baton Aaron has 

made his way around the world and back to 

louisiana an 

Aaron from the United States 

Military at West Point in 1996 and 

served for ten years in the After 

his active service in 2001 

his Aaron returned to 

louisiana to pursue business. 

Aaron purchased an and 

his drive has not stopped since. 

the fall of 2002 Aaron grew a successful wealth 

before forming his own investment firm, Dirks Aaron's 

has lead him to create a diverse business 

of companies with interest in health care, 

real estate and renewable energy. 

Aaron is the co-founder of the Association of Corporate Growth louisiana 

and is a former of the louisiana of the 
42 

Jason C. Anderson 

Founder and CEO I Active-Duty Entrepreneur llC 

Springfield, VA 22152 

Bio: 

Jason Anderson is an active-duty US Air Force lieutenant Colonel working at the Pentagon. A native of 

Jackson Wyoming, he and his family will return to Wyoming after his June 2014 retirement. Jason and 

his wife, Adrianna, launched their first Wyoming-based small business this April after three years of 

planning. Additionally, in June he published a book entitled Active-Duty Entrepreneur. The book spells 

out the rationale for military members and their spouses to start their small businesses well before 

military separation or retirement. By utilizing the military ecosystem that provides a stable job, pay, 

health care, and a predictable career timeline, they can create their own smooth transition in a low-risk 

environment. 

Remarks: 

Helping service members and their families make the transition from active duty to the private sector is 

an ongoing challenge to our government. In my opinion, two main factors drive these challenges: 

military training and culture. First and foremost, our military is the best trained, most capable military 

force in the world. With such a wide variety of missions, training is the key. Beginning with boot camp, 

whether enlisted or officer, we are stripped of some individuality in favor of the team--and that is a 

good thing. We all deeply feel it critical to serve something larger than ourselves. And while serving the 

country we love--often times in dangerous lands away from family and friends-owe are provided a stable 

system which includes salary, healthcare, and the opportunity for promotion. The system's purpose is to 

support the military member and their family so they can focus on protecting our national security 

interests at home and abroad. 

While the system is certainly necessary and proper, given the sacrifices we and our families make, it also 

creates some unintended consequences. Due to the initial training mentioned in the previous 

paragraph, members get used to the military ecosystem that provides consistent pay, health care, 

scheduled promotions, and stability for their family. This dependency grows stronger over time. For 

those leaving the military ecosystem after 10 or more years, there can be a tremendous level of anxiety. 

Where the military ecosystem provides structure, they view the private sector as completely 

unstructured. As a result, they delay their transition to the 11th hour. It is all about the training and 

military ecosystem's effect on the individual. The anxiety is only exacerbated by the current fiscal 

environment where the defense sector--a standard go-to for military people--is contracting. 
43 

I wrote Active-Duty Entrepreneur to completely change the transition narrative. I want to reach active 

duty members and their spouses early in their career and let them know there is an alternative to 

standard employment. In a strange twist of fate, I want to use the same military ecosystem that made 

them dependent to help them launch their own small business and create their own transition. I want to 

empower the individual and their family to create their own future--a uniquely American ideal! All will 

benefit. The individual will create a smoother transition for themselves and their family. The military 

unit will benefit from the business skills learned by the individual service member. In the aggregate, the 

Department of Defense will benefit by having business-sawy people scattered throughout the ranks. 

The Veteran's Administration will benefit by having fewer numbers of those that need training and seek 

jobs. And finally, the US economy benefits by putting capable and creative new small businesses that 

can provide jobs to their fellow citizens. 
44 

Biography 

Dr. Mike Haynie is the Executive Director of the Institute for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse 

University, and also the Barnes Professor of Entrepreneurship at Syracuse University's Whitman School 

of Management. Mike completed his PhD in Entrepreneurship and Business Strategy at the University of 

Colorado at Boulder, and his research has been published in many of the world's leading academic 

journals, and is widely cited in the popular press. Before beginning his academic career, Haynie served 

for 14 years as an officer in the U.S. Air Force. In 2011, Haynie developed and enacted a plan to launch 

higher-education's first interdisciplinary institute focused on the social, economic, and policy concerns 

of the nation's veterans and military families. Today the Institute for Veterans and Military Families at 

Syracuse University is widely acknowledged as the national hub of both thought leadership and 

actionable programming, positioned to address the post-service life course concerns of the nation's 22 

million veterans and families. 

Opening Statement 

My name is Dr. Mike Haynie. I'm a military veteran, the Executive Director of the Institute for Veterans 

and Military Families at Syracuse University, and also the Barnes Professor of Entrepreneurship at 

Syracuse University's Whitman School of Management. I would like to thank Senator landrieu, Ranking 

Member Risch, and the other members of the Senate Committee on Small Business and 

Entrepreneurship, for the opportunity to participate in today's roundtable focused on Veteran Business 

Ownership. As both a veteran, and also professor of entrepreneurship, this is a subject that for me 

represents more than simply a professional interest, but it is also a personal paSSion. I believe that there 

is no segment of society more deserving of the opportunity to enact the American Dream of business 

ownership, than those men and women who have worn the cloth of the nation in defense of that 

dream. To that end, I have spent much of the past seven years focused on designing and delivering 

training programs and supportive services positioned to empower veterans through business ownership. 

These programs include the Entrepreneurship Bootcamp for Veterans with Disabilities (EBV), the 

Entrepreneurship Bootcamp for Veterans Families (EBV-F), Veteran Women Igniting the Spirit of 

Entrepreneurship (V-WISE), and the new business ownership track of DoD's Transition Assistance 

Program (TAP), called Boots2Business. We're excited and heartened by how we've been able to seed 

and cultivate these programs as collaborations between government, higher-education, and the private 

sector, and in the end deliver world-class training and support to transitioning service members and 

veterans with entrepreneurial aspirations. It is the aim and objective of our partners in highereducation and the private sector, to continue to work closely with the SBA, 000, and Congress to 

expand and increase access to training opportunities which support veteran business ownership. 
45 

WRITTEN TESTIMONY OF CHRIS FERGUSON, PRESIDENT, 

SHOULDER 2 SHOULDER INC. 

SERVICE DISABLED VETERAN OWNED SMALL BUSINESS 

Before the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurshipl1l 

November 13, 2013 

Madam Chairwoman Landrieu, Ranking Member Risch, and Members of the 

Committee, Thank you for inviting me to appear before the committee to speak on 

such an important topic and thank you for your continued support of Veteran 

entrepreneurs. 

I am the President of Shoulder 2 Shoulder Inc. My Partner, Ken Falke, is a Service 

Disabled Veteran. Unfortunately, he was unable to attend today because he is 

hosting a Chamber of Commerce lunch for Loudoun County Chamber to help bring 

awareness to wounded Veteran issues. This is his second Service Disabled Veteran 

Owned Small Business (SDVOSB). He founded his first small business in 2002 called 

A·T Solutions and quickly set the company on a path for rapid growth. During his 

tenure as CEO jPresident with A· T Solutions, Ken grew the company from four SDV's 

to over 500 employees of which nearly 70% were Veterans. After the sale of A·T 

Solutions, Ken dedicated a great deal of his time advancing two 501 (c) 3 nonprofit's 

and currently serves as the Chairman of the Explosive Ordnance Disposal Warrior 

Foundation and Chairman of the Boulder Crest Retreat 

I spent my business career in the commercial sector with much of that time 

overseas. I have experience with brands including Walt Disney Co., SAB Miller, and 

the InterContinental Hotel Group. Ken and I met through the Young Presidents 
46 

Organization and I serve on the Board of Boulder Crest Retreat. Together we spent 

a great amount of time with our Wounded Warriors at the Walter Reed National 

Military Medical Center. Their collective desire to get back with their units and 

communicate their lessons learned from their life changing incidents compelled us 

to start Shoulder 2 Shoulder (S2S) two and a half years ago. 

S2S is a socially responsible certified SDVOSB located in Arlington, VA. S2S was 

founded with the mission to provide breakthrough solutions that are centered on 

assisting and healing those who provide us the freedoms we cherish. Our primary 

goal is to develop information technology (IT) and multimedia solutions that 

improve operational performance, prevent traumatic injuries and enable Veteran 

recovery and reintegration. We pursue our goals with a socially responsible 

business plan - we deliver tangible results to the government while driving up to 

50% of our after-tax profits back to Veteran charities. In addition, our business 

model incorporates the highest possible priority for Veteran hiring. I am proud to 

say that 57% of our employees are US Military Veterans and 40% of them are 

disabled US Military Veterans. Our flagship product is a customized mobile 

application called IMPACT (Injured Military Personnel Assisting Combat Troops). 

IMPACT is a secure collaboration focused on video lessons learned from across the 

Counter Improvised Explosive Device (lED) Community without the dangerous 

unknowns of commercial data mining and exploitation. The goal of the IMPACT 

program is to enable peer-to-peer collaboration on Unclassified C-lED content in a 

context that the current generation of War fighter best understands: mobile 
47 

technology and video. IMPACT is currently available across five separate platforms 

including desktop Web, mobile Web, iPad, iPhone, and Android mobile devices. S2S 

not only designs and executes the systems architecture for IMPACT, but we also 

produce crisp video lessons learned interviews taken directly from the first person 

wounded warrior point of view. 

DoD has invested a substantial amount offunds in IMPACT and the government has 

full purpose rights to utilize the tool for other requirements. The Army, OSD, and 

the US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) Care Coalition are currently using 

the App. The USSOCOM has nearly 70,000 Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps 

personnel, including Army Special Forces and Rangers, Navy Small Boat Units and 

Navy SEALs, Air Force Combat Controllers, and Marine Corps special operations 

personnel. IMPACT has been repurposed and adapted to serve the USSOCOM Care 

Coalition with a new product called "Team Room." Team Room will serve as a tool 

for the entire SOF family and assist Special Operations Forces Wounded III & Injure( 

service members and their families communicate and navigate through their 

continuum of care and recovery. IMPACT is also being leveraged to help other 

communities and efforts such as the Caregiver community, adaptive sports 

programs, and very soon we will be promoting transitional efforts to help Veterans 

start their own business. 

As you are all well aware, there are already an inordinate number of unemployed 

Veterans in the United States. As the remaining Afghanistan Veterans come home 
48 

next year they will be challenged to find work and start a business in this tough 

economy. Although my fellow witnesses and others have incredible programs I 

believe there is not enough space and funding to send all interested Veterans to 

these excellent training programs. We need to arm these ambitious Veterans with 

the necessary tools and technology that is scalable and deployed on technology 

platforms where this generation of war fighter learns and communicates. Ifwe do 

this right, our best and brightest leaders on the battlefield can help one another 

become the next generation of successful business owners. 

Our goal at S2S is to leverage DoD investments in IMPACT, team with successful 

programs similar to my fellow witnesses here today, and transition our already fully 

operational and validated IMPACT mobile application to a secure collaborative 

Veterans business network. This tool will enable the already robust VOSBjSDVOSB 

community to have a secure network in which to share best practices, mentorship, 

and watch powerful video content directly related to their experience. This 

Veterans business network will be a scalable entrepreneurship training and 

business-counseling tool that will utilize the lessons learned from successful small 

business mentors to enhance and sustain the success of Veterans entering their new 

business ventures. 

I look forward to working with the committee in the future on this topic and look 

forward to answering your questions. 
49 

Chris Ferguson, President of Shoulder 2 Shoulder Inc. 

Biography 

Chris Ferguson has been active in both domestic and international private sector 

business for over 20 years. 

His track record in both business and education shows a longstanding focus on the 

intersection between commerce and social welfare. 

His early career was heavily influenced by his time growing up in Tokyo, Japan. 

Chris's passion for living and working overseas compelled him to return to Asia 

after graduation from Georgetown University. From 1995-1998, he worked for 

Donnkenny, Inc. the largest apparel licensee of the Walt Disney Company as Vice 

President of International Business Development. While based in Hong Kong, Chris 

opened eleven Disney-themed retail stores throughout Mainland China. 

After returning from China, Chris Ferguson explored a long-standing passion for 

teaching and became a high school teacher and boarding parent at the Baylor School 

in Chattanooga, TN. Chris taught English and Art History classes and became an 

instructor in Baylor's national award-winning outdoor education program. While at 

Baylor, Chris led mountaineering and kayaking trips throughout the United States 

and educational trips throughout Europe. 

Chris returned to the business world in 2003 as the Chief Operating Officer of the 

Franklin Haney Company, a privately held company based in Washington, DC with 

over $1 Billion in assets. Chris ran the operating divisions for the Haney Company 

including the hotel, vending, and beer distribution units. He was later put in charge 

of the firm's GSA office brokerage and property management holdings including The 

Portals, a 1 MM square foot Class A office building in downtown Washington that is 

the headquarters of the Federal Communications CommisSion (FCC). Chris left the 

Franklin Haney Company in February 2011 to launch 525. 

He has a B.S. in Asian Languages, Georgetown University, on the Board of the 

Boulder Crest Retreat for Wounded Warriors, and a member, Young Presidents 

Organization (YPO). 
50 

Statement of C. E. "Tee" Rowe 

America's SBDC 

Committee on Small Business and 

name is Tee 

For 30 years 

veteran 

United States Senate 

November 2013 

Senator committee. 

to 

aspiring veteran 

mission 

programs 

up 
51 

Overall, SBOCs counseled and trained 38,531 veterans in 2011 and 

37,660 in 2012. Of those veterans in 2011- 9,266 were service 

disabled and in 2012 - 9,182 service disabled veterans were 

assisted. 

These veterans represent approximately 13% of the SBOC assistance 

provided annually. For example, last year, the Florida SBOC 

Network served 1,800 veterans through consulting and training. 

Each state has developed its own programs and New York is a great 

example. 

In New York, the SBOC has a comprehensive veterans' small 

business assistance program, providing targeted business training, 

counseling, and mentoring for veterans and service-disabled 

veterans. There are Veterans' Business Outreach Centers at the 

Farmingdale, Buffalo, and Albany SBOCs, each with a dedicated 

Veterans' Business Advisor. In addition, all of the 24 Regional 

Centers in the state-wide network prioritize assistance to veterans. 

In Brooklyn they work with the New York City Mayor's Office of 

Veteran Affairs and the Mid-Hudson SBOC works with the Wounded 

Warrior Unit at the US Military Academy at West Point on joint 

programs for returning wounded veterans. The Mohawk Valley, 

Onondaga and Jamestown SBOC have all established an annual 

Veterans events supported by numerous regional organizations that 

provide breakout workshops, dozens of exhibitors, networking 

sessions, and matchmaking for Government Contracting. 

2 
52 

In addition, NY has the Entre Skills for Veterans online training program. 

This web-based interactive educational program teaches veterans how 

to be successful entrepreneurs and small business owners. The 

program takes veterans through cumulative stages as it helps them 

refine and develop a small business concept, address legal and 

marketing issues, prepare financial statements, and, ultimately, prepare 

a complete business plan. 

The results for New York over the last five years - 791 veteran 

owned business starts, an average of 6,535 hours of counseling, 441 

jobs created and over $33 million dollars in financing. 

On top of these programs and one-on-one counseling, SBDCs are 

working with SBA's Office of Veterans' Business Ownership on the 

new Boots-2-Business program. The program has been successful 

and SBDCs see it as a good introduction point for one-on-one 

counseling and continuing assistance. SBDCs support the program 

and I think Rhett can speak to how well-attended his training 

sessions were at the SBDC Annual Conference. 

My hope is that we can have a dialogue on how to most efficiently 

deliver Boots-2-Business and all the other needed services to 

veterans. We support the program and its goals; our biggest 

concern is resources and adequate coordination to use those 

resources effectively. 

In cloSing, I've attached a few examples of the veteran-owned 

businesses SBDCs have worked with and counseled from all over the 

country. Thank you. 

3 
53 

John Roiney, ERRA Surgical Supplies [Rockland NY SBOC] 

John Rainey opened ERRA Surgical Supplies in November 2010, in an area of 

Manhattan known as Spanish Harlem. He currently employs several Hispanic women 

and a few independent sales representatives. John's proximity to Columbia 

Presbyterian Hospital makes him the closest surgical supply outfit to the hospital with 

this type of specialty. The custom-made diabetic shoes and orthotics that ERRA 

supplies to its customers have positioned his business into a model for success. His 

efforts have led to gainful employment in an area of Manhattan that is currently 

suffering from high unemployment. ERRA Surgical Supply has been welcomed into the 

neighborhood with open arms. As a lieutenant in the Army, John served his country 

with honor and dignity - attributes that permeate his being and have allowed him to 

serve the disabled with one goal in mind, first to help the less fortunate and second to 

help his family. John understands of investment, his ability to see the industry for what 

it is and a deep desire to help others, who are less fortunate, along with the guidance 

the SBOC, helped him achieve success and accomplish his goals. 

Jonathan Quinn, Captain Quinn's Fitness Boot Camp [Brooklyn SBOC] 

From his initial weeks of basic training to the Reserve Officer Training Program at 

Syracuse University and throughout his career as an Air Force officer, Jon Quinn 

experienced firsthand the benefits of group exercise - military style. Jon started Captain 

Quinn's Fitness Boot Camp because he is passionate about fitness and about serving 

others through fitness education. His dedication to fitness has spanned over twenty 

years of service in the military, the private sector, and in non-profit organizations. Jon, 

a Certified Personal Trainer is on a mission to ignite a lifetime passion for fitness and 

healthy living in as many people as possible through programs designed to motivate, 

educate and inspire transformation and self-improvement. His Fitness Boot Camp 

provides results-oriented fast paced group fitness classes, private and small group 

fitness training and coaching, nutritional guidance and, eventually, on-line/retail video 

instruction. Jon consulted Business Advisor Janet Page at the Brooklyn SBOC for 

assistance with business plan development, sources of financing, cash flow projections, 

and discussions about start-up and growth. Jon ultimately obtained a $45,000 Patriot 

Express Loan from Bethex Federal Credit Union. Jon believes deeply in the power of 

fitness to transform lives, and tells all his clients that "Fitness is essential and should 

always be FUN!" 

4 
54 

Peter De/Cotto, The Woodshed [Buffalo SBDC] 

When he was in the Air Force and traveling through Asia, Europe, and the Middle East, 

Peter Delcotto developed a wealth of knowledge about food and exotic cultures. He 

came to believe that food tells a certain story about the people and their environment. 

He decided to become a chef to share his experiences in other cuisines by highlighting 

the most popular dishes of each respective culture. After earning a degree in 

Hospitality Management, Peter consulted the Buffalo SBDC for assistance in refining his 

business plan and financing. Peter credits having a strong business plan and taking the 

time to truly learn this new industry as critical factors in enabling him to successfully 

leverage his management background into his restaurant. In May 2012, he got funding 

and founded The Woodshed, a family owned and operating restaurant that serves up 

traditional Southern style smokehouse barbecue. The restaurant is Peter's lifelong 

dream - a place with a relaxed casual atmosphere and great food on the table. 

Lieutenant Colonel Gabriel (Gabel Ruiz retired from the U.S. Army in 2006. Since then he has 

leveraged a military career in information technology and an entrepreneurial spirit as owner 

and CEO of Advanced IT Concepts, Inc. which provides IT consulting services and value added 

resale of computer hardware and peripherals to both the government and private sectors. 

AITC, Inc. is a Service Disabled Veteran-Owned Small Business and has recently earned its 8(al 

certification. 

Since incorporation the company has achieved outstanding results with sales exceeding $1.5 

million in the first fiscal year. Year two was a breakout year which saw sales nearly double with 

a net profit margin exceeding 12.5%. Sales in this current year will again double exceeding the 

$5 million milestone. In the three year period [2010-2013], the company has added 11 full-time 

employees reaffirming the fact that "small business" is this country's economic engine. 

The company's rapid growth has been accompanied with business challenges and Gabe turned 

to the Florida SSDC at the University of Central Florida. In Gabe's words, "The SBDC at UCF has 

been a true and invaluable partner to AITC. From our first meeting with growth acceleration 

services consultant Roger Greenwald who showed a true caring attitude and superb business 

knowledge we have received expert advice in areas such as marketing, business development, 

budgeting and forecasting, operational effectiveness and more. 

5 
55 

Daron Horne, Sr., owner of Daron's Construction Solutions llC in Pensacola, Fl is 

growing his business by pursuing contracting opportunities. To date, Daron has been 

awarded several Emerald Coast Utilities Authority contracts and four contracts with 

Gulf Power. laura Subel, SBDC procurement specialist and business consultant, advised 

Daron on how to work with the federal, state and local governments, and is preparing 

Horne for becoming a certified minority-owned and veteran-owned business, as well as 

an 8(a) certified business. Certified business consultant Thawanna Keaton assisted 

Horne with his llC operating agreement, membership certificates and updating the 

company's information with the Division of Corporations. 

John Butler, American Produce Express (WA SBDC) 

Third generation orchardist John Butler refers to himself as "just a farmer." But the growth in 

the past decade of his $1 million per year fruit processing company qualifies him as a 

successful businessman, as well. American Produce Express has doubled revenue in the last 

three years, and he contributes at least part of that success to his SBDC business advisor, lew 

Blakeney. Butler first approached the SBDC in the late 1990s, when the profit margins on his 

apples he was trucking the fruit to Montana and Arizona to find additional markets. 

"The banks would not loan us the money needed to finance the trips," he said. "With the 

help of ou'r SBDC, we were able to secure an SBA-guaranteed bank loan to cover our 

transportation costs and turn a profit on the trips." 

Then, in 2002, Butler began to see the processed fruit market as a potential niche. As he 

started experimenting with slicing apples and building his business, he again turned to the 

SBDC. "lew advised us as we developed our product line and manufacturing methods," Butler 

said, recalling that they created and modified equipment piece by piece in a machine shop. 

With other, larger companies competing for the sliced apple market, American Produce 

. Express focused its efforts on producing a conSistently high- quality product and delivering 

directly to the customer -school districts in particular. A map on his office wall identifies the 

60-plus districts throughout the state that carry his products. "We are looking at installing 

additional equipment and possibly adding a second shift to our processing line," he said. The 

plant can produce more than 100,000 pounds of fruit per month. During the school year, 15 

employees are on staff; a limited summer operation supplies camps and others. In addition to 

apples, the operation distributes oranges, pears, grapes and nectarines. 

Supporting the community and staying environmentally friendly are priori- ties for American 

Produce Express. "We are working with Career Path Services locally to place special needs 

individuals in our operation," Butler said. The company directs excess inventory to the area 

food bank, with byproducts and waste going to nearby feedlots. 

6 
56 

C. E. "Tee" Rowe 

C. E. "Tee" Rowe is the President and CEO of the Association of Small 

Business Development Centers, a nationwide network of nearly 1,000 

centers providing free, confidential business consulting and low cost 

training to small business owners. He joined the ASBDC in August of 

2009. 

Tee also serves as a member of the Board of Directors of the Small 

Business Legislative Council, a Washington, DC based advocacy 

organization of small business trade associations. 

A graduate of Dartmouth College (AB, Russian/Government, 1983) and the 

Tulane University School of Law (JD, 1989), Mr. Rowe has a long history 

of legislative and advocacy experience on behalf of the small business 

community. Prior to joining the ASBDC he served as Associate 

Administrator for Congressional and Legislative Affairs for the US Small 

Business Administration from 2005 to 2009. Before that he served as 

Assistant Administrator for Congressional Affairs and as the Assistant 

General Counsel at SBA from 2001 to 2005. 

Tee also worked for ten years (1991-2001) in the US Congress as Counsel 

to the Committee on Small Business in the US House of Representatives. 

In that role he was responsible for drafting most of the major small 

business legislation passed by the US Congress. 
57 

private-
58 

Dear Ms. Postanowicz, 

Please share this email with Chair, Senator Landrieu: 

Quote, 

It is my understanding that you hosted a Roundtable discussion on 11/13/2013 regarding Veteran 

Entrepreneur programs. 

Allow me to share my testimonial of a related program for which I am a graduate, the Veteran Institute 

for Procurement 

(VIP). 

I was privileged to attend the VIP Program in 2012. Please know that as a Service Disabled Veteran 

Owned small 

business; my company, Value Enterprise Solutions, Inc.; a Florida based minority owned business, 

received great benefit 

by attending the VIP Program. My attendance to the VIP course has allowed me to better focus my 

business development 

efforts with the continued growth of my company. Thus, I respectfully request that you continue to 

support the VIP program. 

I am confident that Florida Senator Marco Rubio, a member of the Committee; would be 

interested in knowing what his constituents are saying about the VIP Program. 

Sincerely, 

luis Ramos, MBA, PMP 

President, Value Enterprise Solutions, Inc. 

3314 Henderson Blvd; Suite lOOP 

Tampa, Florida 33609 

www.vesi7.com 

End Quote 
59 

RE: Veteran Entrepreneur Programs 13Nov2013 

To Senator Landrieu, Senator Risch and other fellow Patriots, 

I appreciate the opportunity that you have allowed me to write this email. My hopes are that my 

comments are taken into consideration in regards to the 13Nov2013 hearing regarding SR-428A 

entitled Serving our Service Members: A Review of Programs for Veteran Entrepreneurs. 

It is no secret that small businesses are the vital to the stabilization, success and growth of our 

economy on local and national levels. Many communities depend on these small businesses to 

function, let alone survive. So I do fully appreciate the fact that this forum exists that not only in 

discussions but as oversight on small businesses and the programs, as well as to the 

socioeconomic programs that are provided. 

As someone who has been a small business veteran entrepreneur since 2006, I fully stand behind 

the spirit and the intention of the veteran socioeconomic programs. While I am not writing this to 

pass judgement upon which program is greater than other, I do feel that it is pure genius for our 

leadership to stand before us as patriots to advocate for the men and women who have sacrificed 

for our nation. Yet, while I fully believe in the veteran based set-aside programs and commend 

our leaders on it, I have personally endured the "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" facets of the 

implementation of the program. My greatest criticism being the fact that, up until the past couple 

of years, there has been an utter lack of advocacy to support us. My own experiences have gone 

to where I have personally contacted my local congressman, Senator Ron Johnson's office in 

regards to my own company's veteran issues. Everyone does want the program to succeed but 

there is a lack of advocacy for this success. In no ways do 1 point my finger at anyone element, 

but the fact of the matter certain agencies do govern and outline the requirements. 

An example is the infamous great disconnectien between the SBA and the Department of 

Veterans Affairs (VA) on the requirements to be Service-Disabled Veteran Owned (SDVO) and 

Veteran Owned (VO) Small Business certified. Yet, this disconnection runs even deeper as the 

"left hand" of an agency fails to cooperate with the "right hand" of the same agency. For an 

example, many of our veterans qualify for VA Chapter 30 (GI Bill) and Chapter 3 1 (Vocational 

Rehabilitation) educational benefits. The same agency, the VA, are also administrators of the 

most stringent SDVONO certification program. As a veteran, I carmot walk into a V A regional 

office and obtain Chapter 30 & 31 benefits that can be directly applied to education tailored for a 

business owner. Chapter 30 requires that I am proactively seeking a specific degree program 

which as a veteran who was honorably discharged in 1999, 1 currently personally fail to qualifY 

for Chapter 30 benefits. Chapter 31, the more flexible of the two education programs, has core 

requirements for veterans to obtain the benefits but also has no system to supporting a veteran 

who walks into a VA regional office and says "I would like to open my own business up" minus 

sending them to a 4 year college to eam a bachelor's degree. This isn't just at the Federal level, 

this applies to many states as to where there are scholarship opportunities for veterans. I do feel 

that I am lucky to resident in Wisconsin as to where our Department of Veterans Affairs is led by 

Secretary Scocos, who is a great leader and a veteran himself. 

Then on the flip-side of the coin, while the amount of advocacy we have is limited, I have been 
60 

lucky to be able to take advantage of the APTAC/CVE Federal Contractor Certification (FCC) 

and the Veteran Institute for Procurement (VIP). Yet, none of it is formally recognized nor is it 

endorsed or sponsored by governing agencies. 

The FCC program is a tiered certification program that is a joint project of the VA's Office of 

Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilization (OSDBU) and the Association of Procurement 

Technical Assistance Centers (APTAC) with the assistance of the Defense Acquisition 

University (DAU). This program is at no cost to the veteran and even though sponsored by the 

government, it continues holds no weight bearing in regards to certification. Yet the same 

education is mandatory for the contracting officers themselves that this entrepreneurs are 

required to work with via the Federal Acquisition Institute (FAI in ref. to FAC-C) so the 

government employees who are the legal representation of the US government in contracting are 

required for this training but it holds no value in regards to SDVONO certification due to not 

being formally recognized. I can spend 4 years in post-secondary education, taking electives on 

sleeping and instruction for a business management degree, not once even hint as what legal 

document gives authority to the government to procure goods and what regulations govern them; 

and that still holds more weight than being taught in the first 5 minutes of the FCC that the US 

Constitution empowers the government ' ... shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, 

Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence .. .' that is now 

governed by the FAR. 

The VIP program easily carries forward for someone who is FCC certified. The VIP program a 

27-hour comprehensive training program presented over 3 days by the Montgomery County 

Chamber Community (MCCC) Foundation that I was lucky to be able to attend, at no cost to me, 

other than for transportation to fly from Wisconsin to Washington D.C .. I emphasis that me, a 

veteran from Wisconsin, qualified for this program by the Foundation based on me being a 

veteran, not just limited to veterans within Montgomery County or Maryland. The Foundation 

provided me with meals, accommodations and the program. In addition to the opportunity, there 

was also a forum created that allowed for interaction amongst ourselves, ask questions as well 

gather other SDVONO businesses' experiences. In addition to networking with peers, it also 

provided opportunities for representatives from different agencies to provide valuable 

information. Yet again, the government does not formally recognize this program nor does it 

allow for me as the veteran to use any of my education benefits for this program. 

Even with the little support we do have, I feel that it is meet with resistance. For example, while 

the V A has stressed that they are not on a 'witch hunt' against veteran entrepreneurs, the 

environment they have created dictates the 'witch hunt' atmosphere because of the lack of 

advocacy. In fail to meet a requirement, it is pass or fail. There is no answer to "Can I sit down 

with someone so they can work with me to fix this?" Without using the assets and the 

experiences leamed by the SBA with the 8(a) program. For example. while the SBA does 

provide a local Business Agent for the 8(a) program, the VA does not provide similar for their 

SDVONO certification program. There is also disconnection as to what is expected by a 

president of a company should know. I have gone through numerous site investigations 

pertaining to my SDVO status with the VA. While I have been asked questions that I would 

expect my field employees in my construction business to know, I have yet to hear real questions 

as to what I would ask a president of a company knowing what I know today after this training 
61 

above and over 6 years in experience. Such as: What system would you log into to response to 

Past Performance on a DD Form 2626? What is a Termination for Convenience? What is a 

Termination for Default? Has your company ever had a contract terminated? What system would 

you check to verify if you were/were not? Which agency provides guidelines for certified payroll 

reports? How often do you provide certified payroll? At a minimum, the president of any small 

business contracting with the federal government is required to know these answers. My point 

being, in addition to my own experiences, the FCC and VIP program both provided practical 

education that I use everyday at work. 

While I am a proactive member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), and locally hold an 

officer position within the VFW organization, I find that there is limited support within our own 

Veteran Service Organizations (VSO) to include the VFW. Unlike other veteran related issues, I 

carmot directly tum to my comrades for assistance. Yet it goes without saying, that as a member 

of the American Legion, I have found that the American Legion is the most vocal VSO that fully 

recognizes the lack of advocacy and have step forward to assist veterans to obtain entrepreneur 

counseling. I have seen them in many occasions presenting the voice of the veteran entrepreneur 

and employ that they continue to do so. For me, It defmitely makes things easier knowing that I 

can get answers and advice from an unbiased sources such as American Legion Economic 

Division. 

I ask that programs that focus on entrepreneurs are looked at in a serious light to be formally 

considered as an opportunity to support the very same people who signed the "blank check" and 

gave it to the government for their military service. I also ask we recognize that we need to 

provide advocacy to these veterans to leam and not expect them them to go from being an E-5 in 

the Navy to an E-Expert in logging into CPARS to respond to a Performance Evaluation. 

Again I thank you for this opportunity. I feel it is safe to say that I speak for veterans across the 

board when I say we appreciate having the opportunity to have served our country and to be 

recognized by the socioeconomic program available to us. I am a US Army veteran, having 

served overseas and with the 82nd Airborne. I take great pride in being able to have the 

opportunity to work within the three V A Medical Facilities in Wisconsin. Within Wisconsin's 

VFW alone, last year we had 34103 members within the state. I take pride going into work and 

seeing the projects that my company has completed and currently working on, affecting me, but 

the 34102 other veterans that are my father, my brother, my cousin, my neighbors ... my 

comrades. These projects and veterans are not just numbers to me, they are the faces and names 

of people I know. The hallway that my company installed Vinyl Composition Tile in is the same 

hallway I walked along side with families who were crying over a terminal loved one. 

I would ultimately explain the current effectiveness of the veterans entrepreneur programs in 

relation to our government advocacy by simply finding the next veteran to discharge from the 

military and just saying "You might qualify for federal procurement in socioeconomic dollars if 

you start a business" and walk away. 

Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving, 
62 

Telcmachos P Agoudemos 

President ~ . # d- ~ 'I!i ~PT~-C '''lI\U'''!! 

CTII~ ... 

6045 N 55th St, Suite 102 \:;,,;:J 

Milwaukee, WI 53218 

Phone: 414-464-0382 

Fax: 414-461-2972 
63 

I am a graduate of the Veterans Institute for Procurement (VIP) hosted by the Montgomery County 

Maryland Chamber of Commerce. 

This program was very helpful in allowing me to interact with dozens of experts in the federal 

procurement space. They counseled me in areas pertaining to my business including finance, insurance, 

risk management, marketing, employment, proposal preparation, teaming, sub contracting, joint 

venturing and more. 

I came away with actionable information and filled with positive ideas for expansion. There were 52 

attendees in my class form 10 states. One of the significant benefits of the class was the interaction 

with other veteran owned business leaders and the follow on collaboration. 

In those 27 hours of instruction, I learned how to better manage my business to successfully win and 

retain federal contracts. 

Thanks for accepting my perspective. Happy Thanksgiving. 

Rich Porter 

Advocates In Manpower Management, Inc. (AIMM) 

20423 5tate Road 7 PMB#458 

Boca Raton, Florida 33498 

Tel: 561.479.1649 

Fax: 561.852.3413 

Mobile: 561.654.1215 

Email: rporter@aimmfed.com 

5ite: www.aimmfed.com 

A veteran owned federally certified 8(a) small business 
64 

John Coster 

john@shoulder2shoulderinc.com 

717-756-6596 

Small Business Subcontracting Verification Discussion Paper 

Issue; Although the government set formal goals to ensure that small businesses get their fair 

share of work, full enforcement has been a challenge to manage and validate. Agency 

contracting officers do not have the time and bandwidth to properly verify if total subcontract 

dollars allocated by prime contractors actually match the government's goals. 

Discussion; Amending Subpart 19.7- "The Small Business Subcontracting Program" of the FAR 

by shifting the burden of proof to prime contractors to validate their small business 

subcontracting performance vs. just attempting to do "a good faith effort," should greatly 

enhance the ability ofthe government to effectively validate. 

Recommendations; The following three recommendations are provided for consideration: 

1. Leverage prime contractor small business subcontracting performance on formal Past 

Performance proposal requirements for new contract bids. 

a. Require all prime contractors to submit a semi annual report to their 

government contracting officers depicting how they actually delivered on their 

small business subcontracting goals. The report should show total contract 

dollars compared to small business subcontracting dollars executed. Require 

the prime and their subcontractors to sign off on the report. This will become 

an official part of the prime contractors past performance citation reporting 

requirements for new contract bids. 

2. Weight the prime contractors past performance citations as selection criteria for all 

new contract bids. 

a. If a prime meets or exceeds the mandated small business subcontracting goals 

in their past performance citations, it should be weighted favorably at an 

adequate percentage (Approximately 10-15%) towards their new contract 

selection criteria. This is very similar to the existing benefit used for veterans 

applying for Federal jobs. Eligible veterans can claim a 10-point preference on 

their application or resume by completing Standard Form (SF) 15, Application 

for lO-Point Veteran Preference. 

3. Government contracting officers would have the option not execute option years on 

multiple year contracts for prime contractors who do not meet mandated small 

business subcontracting goal performance standards. 

PO Box 268, Bluemont VA 20135 shoulder2shoulderinc.com 
65 

Veteran 

Veteran Institute 
66 

Dear Chair Landrieu, Ranking Member Risch and Members of the Committee. My name is 

Barbara Ashe, and I am the National Director of the Veteran Institute for Procurement 

(VIP). VIP is a classroom-style training program exclusively for service-disabled and veteranowned government contractors. Business owners and key executives participate in a 3-day, 27-

hour comprehensive certification program instructed by professional service experts, 

government officials, prime contractors, and agency representatives. VIP arms graduates with 

the critical skills and best business practices to win and comply with government procurements. 

Unlike other business training programs, VIP is market-based business-to-business instruction; 

academic or government-based training tend to be distanced from the up-to-the-minute 

realities of government contracting. In addition, most training programs are funded for early 

stage start-ups that train individuals to become entrepreneurs or start a business. VIP picks up 

where those programs leave off at late stage early development. VIP invests in veteran-owned 

companies who on average have 10 or fewer employees and have been in business 6 years. 

This is exactly at the stage where tremendous capacity exists and it is working. 

A recent survey of 121 graduates reported they created 1535 jobs and on average their 

business grew 41% one year following receipt of VIP certification. In addition, over 80% said 

they changed the way they do business after graduating. A majority of their employees are 

veterans. VIP Arms our VETS to WIN and to avoid business land mines. The Montgomery County 

(Maryland) Chamber Community Foundation (Foundation) privately funds this annual training 

program for 50 veteran owned businesses at no cost to the veteran participant. The Foundation 

launched VIP in 2009 and has since graduated 348 veteran businesses from 29 states and the 

District of Columbia. I am very proud to share that in 2011 VIP was recognized by the SBA as 

Veteran Small Business Advocate of the Year for Region III and the Capital District. 

VIP enrollment is open to qualified veteran owned businesses nationwide. The National Center 

for VIP is located at The Bolger Hotel and Conference Center in Potomac Maryland (a U.S. Postal 

Service Center training center). There is a waiting list of more than 100 applications. 

VIP has a proven track record of success and it is an appropriate item for consideration as this 

Committee reviews programs for veteran entrepreneurs. VIP is ideal to operate as public 

private partnership. This partnership will allow more veteran business owners to receive the 

unique benefits of VIP and address the tremendous demand for this program. Thank you for 

your consideration. Please let me know if you need any additional information. 
67 

Æ 

Rubio is pifesenl: dllrin.g y()UrCOll1m,ittE~e, 

South 

send of his