1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on the 6



### PROPOSED CLEAN POWER PLAN 7



### FOR EXISTING POWER PLANTS 8

9

10



### 9 :0 0 a.m. to 7:39 p.m. 11


### Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12

13



### Omni Hotel at CNN Center 14



### 100 CNN Center 15


### North Tower, Level M4, Room B 16


### Atlanta, GA 30303 17

18

19

20

21

22

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### EPA PANEL NUMBER 1: 1


### FRED THOMPSON, Panel 1 Chair; and 2


### Associate Division Director, 3


### Sectors, Policies, and Programs Division, 4


### Office of Air Quality Standards, EPA 5


### BEVERLY BANISTER, Air Division Director, 6


### Atlanta, EPA 7


### DARYL WEATHERHEAD, Managing Economis t, Office of 8


### Air and Radiation, EPA 9

10



### EPA PANEL NUMBER 2: 11


### CAROL KEMKER, Panel 2 Chair; and 12


### Deputy Air Division Director, Region 4, 13


### Southeast, EPA 14


### JEB STENHOUSE, Air Program Manager, Office 15


### of Air and Radiation, EPA 16


### GREG WORLEY, Air Program Manager, Region 4, 17



### EPA 18

19

20

21

22

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### EPA PANEL NUMBER 3: 1


### BEVERLY BANISTER, Panel 3 Chair; and 2


### Air Division Director, Atlanta, EPA 3


### JEB STENHOUSE, Air Program Manager, Office 4


### of Air and Radiation, EPA 5


### DARYL WEATHERHEAD, Managing Economist, Office of 6


### Air and Radiation, EPA 7

8

9

10

11

12

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15

16

17

18

19

20

21

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### PANEL NUMBER 1 3



### LAUREN BUBBA McDONALD, 4


### Georgia Public Service Commission 17 5



### CHUCK EATON, 6


### Georgia Public Service Commission 22 7


### JIM DOYLE, Business Forward 29 8


### JENNETTE GAYER, Environment Georgia 34 9


### MARY LOVE, Resident of Kentucky 40 10



### KENNETH SMITH, 11


### Arkansas Advanced Energy Association 44 12



### LAURA MONTGOMERY, 13


### Resident of Norcross, Georgia 51 14



### LILL MOOD, 15


### Alliance of Nurses for Healthy Environment 53 16



### WOODY BARTLETT, 17


### Georgia Interfaith Power and Light 58 18


### PAULA SWINT, Resident of Georgia 62 19


### ITA HARDESTY MASON, Environmental activist 68 20


### BOBBY GREEN, BioGreenAlgae Enterprises 72 21


### DIANNA WEDINCAMP, Excelsior EMC 81 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### PANEL NU MBER 1 (continued) 3


### DANIEL BLACKMAN, Resident of Georgia 84 4


### DON SAFER, Tennessee Environmental Council 90 5


### TERI BLANTON, Resident of Kentucky 98 6


### JANICE NOLEN, American Lung Association 106 7


### LISA RAYNER, Resident of Georgia 113 8



### SCOTT S EGAL, 9


### Electric Reliability Coordinating Council 116 10


### JOHN POWELL, City of Tallahassee, Florida 126 11


### ATTICA SCOTT, Kentucky Councilwoman 131 12


### MARY ANNE HITT, Sierra Club 137 13



### GREGORY MEINWEISER, 14


### University of Tennessee

- Knoxville 142 15



### REMY DEVOE, American Nuclear Society 143 16


### DAVID REYNOLDS, M.D., Retired pediatrician 148 17



### LARRY WARTHEN, FACE 155 18


### JOHN CASTELLAW, LT GEN, USMC, Retired 158 19


### MICHAEL HARDEN, Americans for Prosperity 164 20



### LYNN RINGENBERG, 21


### University of South Florida

- Tampa 169 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### PANEL NUMBER 2 3


### DANIEL TENPENNY, American Nuclear Society 183 4


### RICHARD HERTZBERG, Emory University 5



### 186 6


### LESLIE AGRON, Candidate, Tennessee State 7


### Legislature 193 8


### RON SHIPMAN, Georgia Pow er 199 9



### JOSEPH REYNOLDS, 10


### Farmer, DeKalb County, Georgia 204 11


### ALICE HOWELL, Resident of Kentucky 212 12



### HOWARD KATZMAN, GEETA 215 13


### DAVID BROWN, Resident of Louisville, Kentucky 221 14



### LANCE BROWN, PACE 224 15


### CLIFF COCKERHAM, Sierra C lub 229 16



### ELIZABETH WARNER, Santee Cooper 235 17


### JOYCE LANNING, League of Women Voters 242 18


### DEBORAH A. JACKSON, Mayor, Lithonia, Georgia 248 19



### SANDY KURTZ, 20


### Blue Ridge Environmental Defense League 254 21



### STEPHANIE STUCKEY

- BENFIELD, 22

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### Former Georgi a State Representative 258 1


### C O N T E N T S (continued) 2



### PAGE 3


### PANEL NUMBER 2 (continued) 4



### CHRIS STRIPPELHOFF, 5


### Municipal Gas Authority of Georgia 263 6



### IRENE BARTON, 7



### Mothers and Others for Clean Air 268 8


### CHANDRESH LADVA, Emory University 27 4 9



### ANGELA GARRONE, 10


### Southern Alliance for Clean Energy 279 11



### STEVE HALSTED, 12


### Community United Church of Christ 283 13



### GERALD DURLEY, 14


### Providence Missionary Baptist Church 290 15


### JACQUELYN CARTER, Sierra Club 296 16


### KEITH THOMAS, North Georgia Build ing 17



### Construction Trades Council 302 18


### MARIBEL BALBIN, League of Women Voters 308 19


### NINA McCOY, High School Biology Teacher 312 20



### LAURA SEIDELL, 21



### Mothers and Others for Clean Air 317 22

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1


### C O N T E N T S (continued) 2



### PAGE 3


### PANEL NUMBER 2 (continue d) 4


### EDWARD WOLF, Retired Pastor, Evangelical 5



### Lutheran Church in America 322 6


### DAVID ROOT, Resident of Georgia 326 7


### MICHAEL WHATLEY, Consumer Energy Alliance 331 8


### BRIAN RINEHART, University of Rochester 336 9


### JOAN LINDOP, Sierra Club 342 10


### ELIZABETH POYTHRESS, League of Women Voters 343 11


### SAMANTHA SIEGEL, Sierra Club 349 12


### MATT CAMPBELL, Smart Transportation Division 355 13


### PHILLIP MASSENGILL, Sierra Club 364 14


### STEVEN SONDHEIM, Sierra Club 370 15


### JENNIFER KADUCK, Agnes Scott College 376 16



### MICHAEL HANNAN, Veteran 383 17



### JOANNE GOLDENHILL, 18



### Kentuckians for the Commonwealth 385 19



### TIM WILLIAMS, GreyStone Power Corp. 390 20


### JOHN TODD WATERMAN, Organizing for Action 396 21


### MARLENE TAYLOR, Knoxville, Tennessee Writer 403 22

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### EDRICHUS SYKES, Pure Green Coatings 408 1


### C O N T E N T S (continued) 2



### PAGE 3



### PANEL NUMBER 3 4


### ELEANOR HAND, Resident of Atlanta, Georgia, 422 5


### MICHAEL WALL, Georgia Organics 428 6


### JIM NICHOLS, Resident of Stockbridge, Georgia 429 7


### ALEX SOLOMON, Resident of Atlant a, Georgia 433 8



### AMELIA SHENSTONE, 9


### Southern Alliance for Clean Energy 438 10


### MARK WOODALL, Sierra Club 445 11



### CASSANDRA WEBSTER, 12


### Resident of Atlanta, Georgia 450 13



### ALAN HANCOCK, 14



### Conservation Voters of South Carolina 454 15


### EVERLY JAZI, Asthm a sufferer 461 16



### MARYANNE DANIELS GARBER, 17



### Behavioral Institute of Atlanta 465 18


### STEPHEN GARBER, Psychologist and grandfather 470 19


### F.G. BEAUREGARD, National Wildlife Federation 477 20



### JENNIFER BRYANT, Oconee EMC 482 21


### JAMES GILL, Manager, Carroll EMC 486 22

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1



### P R O C E E D I N G S 2



### PANEL NUMBER 1 3


### MR. THOMPSON: For the record, this is 4


### the Public Hearing on the Proposed Carbon 5


### Pollution Plan and the Proposed Carbon Pollution 6



### Standards for Modified and Reconstructed Power 7


### Plants, being held in Atlant a, Georgia, on July 8


### 29th, 2014. 9


### Good morning. 10


### [Chorus of "Good morning."] 11


### MR. THOMPSON: My name is Fred Thompson, 12



### and I'm the Associate Division Director of the 13


### Sectors, Policies, and Programs Division in EPA's 14


### Office of Air Quality Standards, and I will be 15


### chairing today's hearing. 16


### Thank you all, sincerely. Thank you all 17


### for coming today. Joining me on the panel are, 18


### to my right, Beverly Banister, EPA's Air Division 19


### Director here in Atlanta; and to my left, Daryl 20


### Weatherhead, a managing economist for th is rule. 21


### We're here today to listen to your 22

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### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 1


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 2


### of these proposed rules on June 2nd, 2014. 3


### Power plants are the largest source of 4


### carbon pollution in the U.S., acc ounting for 5


### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 6


### emissions. The first rule is EPA's proposed 7


### Clean Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 8


### proposal consists of two main parts: state

9


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 10


### power plan ts; and guidelines to help states 11


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 12


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 13


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 14


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 15


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 16


### their goals by 2030. 17


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 18



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 19


### and reconstructed power plants. 20



### This rule would set emission limits for 21


### two groups of power plants: those that make 22

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### physical or operati onal changes that increase the 1


### plant's maximum achievable hourly rate of 2


### emissions; and those that replace components to 3


### such an extent that the new components exceed 50 4


### percent of the capital costs of an entirely new, 5


### comparable facility. 6


### If you would lik e more details on either 7


### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 8


### available near the registration desk out front. 9


### Now, today's hearing is one of four 10


### public hearings across the country this week on 11


### the two proposed rules. We've had tremendous 12



### intere st in each of the hearings. And I'd like 13


### to thank you for taking the time out of your day 14


### today to join us and to share your comments. 15


### We have a lot of people signed up to 16


### speak today. And we want to hear from all of us. 17


### So, before we get started, I'd l ike to go through 18


### a few housekeeping items and ground rules that 19


### will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 20


### First, please be sure you have checked in 21


### at the registration desk even if you are not 22

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### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 1


### speak, on line or by phone, but haven't told us 2


### that you're here, please step out to the 3


### registration desk and let the EPA staff know 4


### there that you've arrived. 5


### Second, if you are a speaker, you were 6


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 7



### or Room B. This i s Room B. So, let me ask: Are 8


### you in the right room? And if not, that's okay. 9


### This would be a great time to make the 10


### transition. All right? 11


### So, here's how today's hearing will work. 12


### I will call speakers up in pairs. When your name 13


### is called, please come to the table at the front 14


### of the room, which is located here. When I call 15


### on you to speak, please state your name and spell 16



### it

-- Fred, F

- r

- e

- d, Thompson, T

- h

- o

- m

- p

- s

- o

- n

-- 17


### so that the court reporter can record it. 18



### Your comments will be transcribed and 19



### included in the record of comments on the 20


### proposed rule. 21


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 22

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### give comments. We have a light to help you know 1


### how much time you have left to speak, and it's 2


### located right here to my left on the corner of 3



### the table. 4



### W hen the light turns from green to 5


### yellow, that you means you have one minute 6


### remaining. When it turns red, that's a signal to 7


### wrap up your testimony. The light will flash red 8


### and beep when you have spoken for five minutes 9


### and it's time to stop. 10


### When you' re finished speaking, please 11


### remain at the table until the person next to you 12


### has completed his or her testimony. 13


### We're here today to listen. However, a 14


### panel member may ask you questions to clarify 15


### your comments. I will then call up the next pair 16


### of spe akers, and so on. 17


### If you've brought a written copy of your 18


### testimony, please give that to the staff at the 19


### registration desk before you leave today. 20


### Because of the large number of people who 21


### have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 22

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### everyone, we're going to have to strictly enforce 1



### the five

- minute limit. 2


### If you have additional comments you would 3


### like to make, you can submit them in writing. 4


### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as much 5


### consideration to comments we receive in writing 6



### as we do to comm ents we receive at public 7


### hearings like this one. So, if you have more 8


### that you would like to say, please submit it. 9



### Your comments will be reviewed. 10


### There's still plenty of time to get 11


### written comments in, and there are comment cards 12


### available at the reg istration desk. Comments 13


### must be received by October 16th, 2014. Let me 14


### repeat that: Comments must be received by 15


### October 16th, 2014. 16


### We will put any written comments 17


### submitted today in the official docket for the 18


### proposed rule. Instructions for submit ting 19


### written comments in other ways are available at 20


### the materials table near the registration desk, 21


### again, located out front. 22

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### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 1


### tonight. And we'll take a lunch and dinner 2


### break. Right now, the lunch break is scheduled 3



### for noon and the dinner break is scheduled for 4


### five o'clock. In addition, we may take 5


### occasional short breaks throughout the day as 6


### needed. And we'll keep you posted as the day 7



### goes on. 8


### If you have any questions during the day, 9


### please see the staff at t he registration desk, 10


### and someone will try to help you. 11


### Finally, I want to ask of you to please 12


### be respectful of everyone who speaks today. We 13


### have people with a wide variety of views in the 14


### audience, and we want to hear from all of you. 15



### So we can do th at and to be fair to everyone, we 16


### ask that everyone listen quietly. Okay? Even 17


### applause can slow things down, and we want to 18


### hear from everyone who has signed up to speak. 19


### So, thank you again for taking the time 20


### to share your comments on the EPA proposed rules. 21


### With that, let's get started. 22

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### At this time, I would like to invite 1


### Lauren Bubba McDonald and Chuck Eaton up front 2


### for testimony. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 5


### [Chorus of "Good morning."] 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, Mr. 7



### McD onald, could you state your name and spell it 8


### for the court reporter, and then begin your 9


### testimony? 10


### MS. McDONALD: I'm Loren Bubba McDonald, 11



### that's L

- a

- u

- r

- e

- n B

- u

- b

- b

- a M

- c

- D

- o

- n

- a

- l

- d. 12


### And I'm a member of the Georgia Public Service 13



### Commission. 14



### I apprec iate the opportunity to make some 15


### comments on EPA's proposed GHG emission 16


### guidelines. We in Georgia in the Public Service 17


### Commission do not take these new regulations 18


### lightly. However, we are proud to announce 19


### Georgia has already made great strides in 20



### co mpliance. 21


### First point I would like to make is that 22

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### each state is different as to geographical 1


### location, size, altitude, climate, and natural 2


### resources. The right energy mix for Georgia may 3



### not be the same as it is for California or 4



### Massachusetts. 5



### In Georg ia, we have already made big 6



### investments in carbon

- free energy by building new 7



### nuclear and solar resources. We chose to do this 8


### as we set out our goals without waiting for EPA 9


### to tell us to. Regrettably, EPA's proposal does 10


### not give Georgia enough credit for the smart 11


### nuclear investments that we have already made. 12


### Georgia is leading the nation in building 13


### nuclear technology. Nuclear energy is America's 14


### most powerful resource of carbon

- free 15


### electricity, and the fuel is abundant. In 2013, 16


### nuclear energy a ccounted for 63 percent of zero

17


### carbon electric generation in the United States. 18



### That's three times more emissions

- free 19


### electricity than the hydropower and nearly five 20


### times more than wind power. 21


### Here in Georgia, our two new state

- of

22

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### the

- art reactors will produce approximately 2,200 1


### megawatts of reliable emissions

- free electricity 2


### around the clock. This represents a multi

3



### billion

- dollar investment on the part of Georgia 4



### rate

- payers that will benefit everyone in the 5


### planet by reducing emissions. 6



### Does this say that we are not protective 7


### of our climate? I think not. Georgia cares 8



### about the world we live in. 9


### EPA's approach to new nuclear units like 10


### these in Georgia is unacceptable. If EPA's 11


### objective is to reduce CO2 emissions, then EPA 12


### should not penalize the citizens of Georgia for 13


### investing billions in more nuclear power by not 14


### giving us full credit for this carbon

- free energy 15



### source. 16


### Georgia has also taken great steps to 17


### grow our renewable energy portfolio. We have 18


### done this responsibly, without raisin g rates, so 19


### customers don't see their utility bills go up. 20



### And we've done it without mandates or state 21



### subsidies. 22

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### Look at how much we have approved 1


### already. We have over 200 megawatts of biomass 2


### generation, including landfill methane gas, and 3



### over 1,000 m egawatts of hydrogenation. And we 4


### approved contracts for another 200 megawatts of 5


### new biomass capacity to be developed in Georgia 6


### by 2017. 7


### We recently approved 250 megawatts of new 8


### wind energy that will be serving Georgians by 9


### 2016. And of course, our so lar programs are now 10


### on track to bring nearly 900 megawatts of solar 11


### onto the grid by 2017. That's a big number for 12



### solar

-- so big that Georgia recently jumped up 13


### to being ranked seventh biggest state market for 14



### solar in the United States. 15



### Our renewable program has resulted in the 16


### largest volunteer expansion of renewable energy 17



### resources in the United States. 18



### We didn't need mandates. We took 19


### advantage of market forces and falling solar 20


### prices, and we let the free enterprise system 21



### take care of the develo pment. We did this with 22

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### no state subsidies or no higher costs that have 1


### passed on to our customers for decades to come. 2


### We have already made smart investments 3


### here in Georgia for clean energy, and more is to 4



### come. We are blessed with valuable natural 5



### res ources of plentiful solar in our state, and 6


### we're looking forward to how we can improve our 7


### programs to encourage market incentives to grow 8



### solar even more. 9


### One example is encouraging local 10


### communities to promote solar farms to locate in 11



### their counties. I 've been working with local 12


### officials and with solar developers to figure out 13



### how we can make sure that the investments we make 14


### in new solar farms pay a solar dividend in the 15


### form of full millage rates on solar and on the 16


### solar property of the local commun ities where 17


### they are built. 18


### Revenues from new solar farms can help 19


### fund the local school systems, promote more 20


### economic development in rural parts of our state 21


### that's very much needed. 22

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### Here in Georgia, we believe in setting 1


### our own goals for cleaner, moder n energy mix that 2



### matches the resources and the needs of our state. 3


### We have put our money where it's needed by these 4


### investments in new nuclear and solar projects to 5


### get us to an abundant, carbon

- free electricity. 6


### I believe we are on the right track. And 7


### we are moving at the right pace. And there is 8


### more to come. With this being said, please leave 9


### us alone. We see the goals ourselves, and we 10


### know how to achieve them. Reward us completely 11


### for our efforts; do not penalize us with partial 12



### credits. 13



### MR. TH OMPSON: Thank you, Mr. McDonald. 14


### Thank you for your testimony. 15


### Are there any questions from the panel? 16


### Please remain in your seat. 17


### [No audible response.] 18


### Mr. Eaton, please state and spell your 19


### name for the court reporter, and begin your 20


### testimony, sir

. 21


### MR. EATON: Sure. My name is Chuck 22

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### Eaton, C

- h

- u

- c

- k E

- a

- t

- o

- n. 1


### Good morning. My name is Chuck Eaton. 2


### I'm Chairman of the Georgia Public Service 3


### Commission. Thank you for holding public 4


### hearings in Atlanta and for the opportunity to 5


### speak today. 6



### The m ission of the Georgia Public Service 7



### Commission is to ensure that consumers receive 8


### safe, reliable, and reasonably priced 9


### telecommunications, electric, and national gas 10


### services from financially viable and technically 11


### competent companies. 12


### Through the PSC's constructive 13


### regulation, we have provided an environment that 14


### supports growth for our state's economy. Today's 15


### proposed rule will significantly impact not only 16


### the operation of existing power plants in 17


### Georgia, but also operation of the electric 18



### system a s a whole. 19



### As Chairman of the Public Service 20


### Commission, I am deeply concerned that this rule 21


### intrudes in the state's electric regulatory 22

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### authority. This rule also ignores the thorough 1


### process the PSC undertakes to accomplish its 2



### mission. 3


### As a result, I a m concerned that this 4


### rule, in combination with the EPA's proposed rule 5


### for new power plants, will increase the cost of 6


### power to our citizens and unnecessarily strand 7


### investments we have made in the existing 8


### generation fleet. 9


### Georgia has a robust energy

- pl anning 10


### process for electric utilities that involves 11


### long

- range planning with a focus on customer and 12


### economic impact. Georgia law requires utilities 13


### regulated by the commission to file an integrated 14


### resource plan at least once every three years. 15



### Once the se plans are filed, we undertake 16



### an intensive six

- month process to scrutinize and 17



### evaluate the demand

- side and supply

- side options 18


### included in the plan. We hold three rounds of 19


### hearings. Parties intervene. Witnesses testify. 20


### Based upon that record, we approve a plan that 21


### will help ensure safe, reliable, and affordable 22

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### power. 1


### EPA's proposed rule overrides the 2


### commission's authority to determine the cost

3


### effective energy mix for Georgia, including the 4


### amount of renewable energy deployment and energy 5



### effic iency improvement. Yet, renewable energy 6



### and demand

- side's energy efficiencies are key 7


### components of our resource

- planning process. 8


### And the PSC has already taken significant 9


### steps to diversify the portfolio of resources 10


### that serves Georgia's citizens. Ge orgia has been 11


### nationally recognized for our expansion of solar 12


### energy in this state. Our solar programs 13


### represent the largest voluntary expansion of the 14



### solar resources in the United States. 15


### We have added 250 megawatts of wind to 16


### our renewable portfolio. Our renewable energy 17


### expansion has been undertaken in a manner that 18


### limits upward pressure on customers' rates, while 19


### ensuring Georgia is a leader in cost

- effective 20


### renewable development. 21



### We have also advanced demand side's 22

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### energy efficiency. We current ly have a DSM 1


### working group comprised of diverse stakeholders 2



### that evaluates and recommends cost

- effective 3


### energy efficiency measures. The recommendations 4


### from that working group feed directly into our 5



### resource

- planning process. 6



### It is in that forum that t he PSC can make 7


### an informed decision regarding the amount of 8



### cost

- effective energy efficiency that can be 9


### achieved. As a result of that process, Georgia 10


### Power will spend almost $500 million on demand

11


### side energy efficiency programs over the next 10 12



### years. 13


### Finally, we are also one of the few 14


### states that will bring online new state

- of

- the

15


### art nuclear generation in the near future. These 16


### successes in renewables, energy efficiency, and 17


### nuclear development have all been accomplished 18


### through a constructive, del iberative regulatory 19


### process in Georgia. 20


### In contrast, the EPA's rule development 21


### process lacks the rigor and voracity of our 22

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### resource planning process. The proposed rule 1


### would effectively require a redesign of the 2


### state's energy resource plans, essentiall y 3


### dictating which generation resource will be used, 4


### without regard to cost. 5


### For example, the proposal assumes that 6


### Georgia could increase renewable energy by 273 7


### percent for 2012 levels and demand

- side energy 8


### efficiency to 9.83 percent by 2030 in order to 9


### meet the EPA's carbon reduction goal. 10


### The proposal also assumes that existing 11


### generation units will be retired. In Georgia, we 12


### have already certified the retirement of over 13


### 3,000 megawatts of coal resources, largely in 14


### response to environmental requiremen ts. The 15


### proposal assumes that Georgia will retire another 16


### 3,900 megawatts by 2025. Retiring these 17


### additional megawatts will strand the significant 18


### investment Georgia has already made in the 19


### existing coal fleet, billions of dollars to 20



### reduce our environme nt footprint. 21


### Georgia is entitled to reap the benefits 22

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### of the investments they have made in the form of 1



### cost

- effective electric power from the plants. 2


### I ask you to please reconsider this rule. 3


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Eaton. 4


### Are there any questions fr om the panel? 5



### MS. BANISTER: I have one. 6



### MR. THOMPSON: Sure. 7


### MS. BANISTER: So, the integrated 8


### resource plan, you said it's done every three 9


### years, I think? 10



### MR. EATON: Yes. 11



### MS. BANISTER: When was the last time it 12



### was done? 13



### MR. EATON: Last year. 14



### MS. BA NISTER: Last year? Okay. Thank 15



### you. 16


### MR. THOMPSON: Additional questions? 17


### [No audible response.] 18


### MR. THOMPSON: Gentleman, thank you both 19


### for your testimony. 20


### MR. McDONALD: Thank you. 21


### MR. EATON: Thank you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like to 1


### ask, o r invite Jim Doyle and Jennette Gayer, G

- a

2



### y

- e

- r, up for your testimony. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 5


### And let me, just before they begin their 6


### testimony, ask Mary Love and Kenneth Smith to 7


### queue up. Excellent. All right. Very good. 8


### Again, good morning. 9


### Starting with you, Mr. Doyle, could you 10


### spell your name for the court reporter and then 11


### begin your testimony? 12


### MR. DOYLE: Sure. Thank you. Jim, J

- i

13


### m, Doyle, D

- o

- y

- l

- e. 14


### I'm President of Business Forward, a 15



### trade association that works with tens of 16


### thousands of business leaders across the country. 17


### I recently co

- authored a study examining how the 18


### proposed carbon standards we are discussing here 19


### today will affect electricity costs for 20



### manufacturers. 21


### Critics argue the new EPA standards will 22

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### cause Am erican manufacturers to shut down their 1


### U.S. factories. But when you look at what 2


### manufacturers actually spend on electricity and 3


### how that spending relates to the rest of their 4


### budgets, you'll find the projected rate increases 5


### will have a small impact on manufacturers' bottom 6



### lines. 7


### Electricity represents less than 1 8


### percent of a manufacturer's total cost, on 9


### average. The EPA projects rates could rise about 10


### 6 percent by 2020. That means the average 11


### industry's total cost would rise less than 0.06 12



### percent. In other words, a part that costs the 13


### manufacturer $100 to produce would increase by 6 14



### cents. 15


### On the other hand, supply chains 16


### represent 60 percent of the manufacturer's total 17


### cost. That's 60 times more than electricity. 18


### Over the past four years, Ameri can factories have 19


### been disrupted by typhoons in Thailand, 20


### hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, droughts in 21


### Texas, tornadoes in Kentucky, falling water 22

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### levels across the Great Lakes, and flooding in 1



### the Northeast. 2


### This is part of a wave of severe weather 3



### that , from 2011 to 2013, cost our economy more 4


### than $200 billion. Cargo ships crossing the 5


### Great Lakes are carrying less cargo to avoid 6


### running aground. Courts are preparing for more 7


### hurricanes. Highways and bridges are subject to 8


### more disruptions. And car go trains detoured 9


### during last winter's storms took months to arrive 10



### at their factories. 11


### Together, these events are shutting down 12


### or slowing down plants for hours, days, and 13


### sometimes weeks at a time. This is actually 14


### quite new. Manufacturing plants acro ss all 15


### industries have experienced four unexpected 16


### disruptions each year, on average. These have a 17


### cost of 20 hours of total downtime per year. 18


### These are caused by equipment failures, power 19


### outages, absence of key personnel, and severe 20



### weather. 21



### With the frequency and intensity of 22

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### severe weather increasing, so are production 1


### delays and disruptions. An auto plant in Indiana 2


### that rarely lost production to severe weather 3


### lost four days last winter alone. Leading 4


### employers here in Atlanta have begun reportin g 5


### these risks to their stockholders. Home Depot, 6


### Delta, Southern Company have each explained how 7


### severe weather is affecting their bottom lines. 8


### But to appreciate what climate change 9


### could do to American manufacturers, it helps to 10


### point out that supply ch ains are growing bigger, 11


### more specialized, and more global, and incredibly 12


### fast. The very characteristics that make them 13


### more efficient make them more interdependent. 14


### And it's the interdependence that makes severe 15


### weather such a big deal. 16



### Just

- in

- time in ventory practices reduce 17


### factory space needs by about 80 percent and can 18


### reduce its labor costs by as much as half. But 19


### just

- in

- time means that a factory has only 20


### several hours of parts on site at any one time. 21


### So if their trucks are delayed just a few h ours, 22

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### that plant shuts down. If it's delayed half

- a

1


### day or a day, that plant shuts down entirely. 2


### Having a global supply chain means your 3


### plant here in Atlanta can be affected by one of 4


### your suppliers in Thailand or when the port in 5


### Norfolk, Virginia, is slowed down by East Coast 6



### hurricanes. 7


### Now, we've been talking about Atlanta, 8



### but let's focus on the Southeast. The Southeast 9


### is host to six auto assembly plants across South 10


### Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi. 11


### Those assembly plants support tens of thousands 12


### of jobs and several hundred auto suppliers. It's 13


### the biggest manufacturing sector in the United 14


### States. Assembly plants are massive, and each 15


### one produces about 300,000 cars a year. 16



### Each hour of weather

- related shutdowns at 17


### an auto assembly plant costs $1.25 million or 18


### more of lost production. One hour, $1.25 19


### million. By comparison, the cost of higher 20


### electricity rates is modest. An auto assembly 21


### plant that spends $60 on electricity for each car 22

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### it assembles and produces 300 vehicles each year, 1


### and costs rise 6 percent, well, that total 2


### increase for a total year costs the plant less 3


### than losing one hour of production to severe 4



### weather. 5


### In conclusion, a careful study of 6



### business data shows that severe weather is far 7


### more expensive to America n manufacturers than the 8



### cost of the EPA standards intended to address it. 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Doyle. 10


### Mrs. Gayer, am I pronouncing your name 11


### correctly? 12



### MS. GAYER: You are. 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. All right. 14


### MS. GAYER: Thank you. Yeah. 15



### MR. THOMP SON: Please pronounce and spell 16


### for the court reporter. 17


### MS. GAYER: Sure. So it's Jennette, J

- e

18



### n

- n

- e

- t

- t

- e, Gayer, G

- a

- y

- e

- r. 19



### And I'm the Director of Environment 20


### Georgia, which is a citizen

- funded nonprofit that 21


### works in Georgia to protect our air and o ur water 22

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### and our green spaces. And I want to thank ya'll 1


### very much for holding this hearing today, 2


### proposing this rule. 3


### [A telephone ring tone was heard.] 4


### MS. GAYER: I was going to say. 5


### [Laughter.] 6


### MS. GAYER: Okay. And especially for 7


### rolling for the pu nches and finding us a new home 8


### in the Omni, which is very nice. 9



### As an Atlantan

-- this is a sidebar, I 10



### guess

-- I'm very lucky. I have gotten to attend 11


### several listening sessions in the past. It seems 12


### to go with the territory when you work with and 13



### near the Sam Nunn Center. 14


### But what I wanted to say or start with 15


### this morning is this is the first listening 16



### session that I've attended that has kicked off 17


### with a Clean Power Plan prayer breakfast, with 40 18


### faith leaders, that has brought busloads of 19


### people fro m Kentucky, from Alabama, from 20


### Tennessee, busloads of kids from around Georgia 21


### to come and watch what is happening here today, 22

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### which I think really speaks to the importance of 1


### this issue for this generation and for future 2


### generations. 3


### And I'll also say tha t, having sat 4


### through multiple listening sessions, this also 5


### means that I've heard several rounds of utility 6


### talking points, promising that my electric bills 7


### will go up, that the reliability of our electric 8


### system will go down, that the sky will fall. 9



### So I think the reality is global warming 10


### is not a problem that Georgia can tackle on its 11


### own. But it is certainly something that we will 12


### benefit if we successfully tackle. So we have, 13


### just as one example, a beautiful coastline. It's 14


### also a very valuable coa stline. So tourism 15


### experts estimate our coast is worth $1.5 billion. 16


### One of our board members is a city 17


### council member on Tybee Island, Paul Wolf. And 18


### he wanted me to send tidings today and let you 19


### know that not only does he support this plan, but 20



### has hi s own plan on Tybee, that they're spending 21


### millions of dollars currently working to figure 22

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### out, how can the City of Tybee survive rising sea 1


### levels, increased storms? So this is something 2


### that he's feeling in his pocketbook as well and 3


### appreciates ya'll d ealing with it. 4


### Environment Georgia Research and Policy 5


### Center recently wrote a report called "America's 6


### Dirtiest Power Plants," and it shows that 7


### America's power plants really are the single 8


### largest source of carbon pollution and that a 9



### handful of the dir tiest plants make up a huge 10


### portion of our emissions. 11


### For, for example, in the U.S., 50 of the 12


### dirtiest plants emit more carbon pollution than 13



### all but six other entire countries. And the 14


### dirtiest power plant of them all, as you well 15


### know, is Plant Scherer , near Macon, Georgia. If 16


### we want a cleaner, safer future for our kids, we 17


### cannot afford to ignore power plants' outsized 18


### contribution to global warming. For Georgia, 19


### tackling the problem truly does mean cleaning up 20


### the dirtiest power plants. 21



### We know tha t there's a better way than 22

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### dirtier power plants, and I do want

-- you 1


### recently heard from Commissioner McDonald. And 2


### he does deserve credit for making Georgia a real 3


### leader in solar. He has really driven, at the 4


### Public Service Commission, a lot of great solar 5


### initiatives. So we are proving here in the state 6



### that there are alternatives. And those 7


### alternatives work, and they create jobs. 8


### Energy efficiency is a second thing that 9


### I think we could do even more in Georgia. 10


### Certainly, you know, I would say w e should make 11



### that

-- you guys talk about three legs of the 12


### stool. And I would say we should be doing 13


### anything that we can in Georgia to make sure that 14



### -- I don't want a lopsided stool, but to make 15


### sure that energy efficiency is a big part, I 16


### guess, of ho lding up our stool. 17


### So, on behalf of Environment Georgia, on 18


### behalf of our thousands of citizen members, I 19


### urge EPA to develop a strong rule limiting carbon 20


### pollution from existing plants. We need to 21


### protect our children and our future generations 22

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### from th e worst impacts of global warming. 1


### Georgia is the eighth

- biggest emitter of 2


### carbon pollution from power plants, so we are a 3


### critical place to start. And I appreciate ya'll 4


### being here today. Thank you. 5


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 6


### Are there any questions for Ms. Gayer? 7


### Daryl? 8


### [No audible response.] 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, respectfully, 10


### Mrs. Gayer and Mr. Doyle, thank you for your 11


### testimony. 12


### [Pause.] 13


### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, again, I'd 14


### like to invite Mary Love and Kenneth Smith to 15


### please come forwar d. 16


### [Pause.] 17


### MR. THOMPSON: And while they're making 18


### the transition, I'd also like to invite folks to 19


### take this opportunity to silence their cell 20


### phones. Thank you. 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 22

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### MR. SMITH: Good morning. 1


### MS. LOVE: Good morning. 2



### MR. THOMPSO N: Starting with you, Mrs. 3


### Love, would you state and spell your name for the 4


### court reporter and then begin your testimony, 5


### please? 6


### MS. LOVE: Certainly. My name is Mary 7



### Love, M

- a

- r

- y L

- o

- v

- e. And I'm from Kentucky. 8


### Good morning. 9


### (Chorus of "Good mornin g.") 10



### MS. LOVE: I'm a Kentuckian and a native 11


### Appalachian with roots in the region going back 12


### approximately 200 years. I live in Oldham 13


### County, Kentucky, which is just upriver and 14



### downwind from Louisville. 15


### Louisville Gas and Electric Company has 16



### two coal

- fired power plants in Southwest 17


### Louisville on the Ohio River, and Duke Energy has 18



### one pre

- Clean Air Act generation station just 19


### west of the city, in Indiana, on the other side 20



### of the river. 21



### Louisville is also the intersection of 22

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### three major interstates

-- 64, 65, and 71

-- and 1


### the only Ohio River crossing for some 50 miles in 2



### either direction. 3


### The prevailing winds in Louisville are 4


### from the southwest, and the power plants and 5


### chemical plants are all located southwest of 6



### town. Our small

- particulates polluti on levels 7


### are consistently high, both from vehicle 8


### emissions and from power plant emissions. One 9


### day about two months ago, the newspapers reported 10


### that Louisville was listed as the city with the 11


### worst air pollution in the nation on that day. 12



### We're also in a basin of the Ohio River, 13


### so whatever pollution is created in Louisville 14


### mostly stays there. We're the top in the

-- the 15


### top five

-- I think we're number five in the 16


### nation for asthma rates in the whole country. 17


### Our state, our nation, and our world 18


### desp erately need your help to reduce our carbon 19



### emissions and to save us from the worst effects 20


### of climate change. I'm involved with grass roots 21


### organizations in Kentucky and Appalachia. You 22

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### see I'm a member of Kentuckians for the 1



### Commonwealth. And we are w orking to protect our 2


### air, water, our land, and particularly the health 3


### of our people. 4


### We're also working for a just economic 5


### transition from our region as we move away from 6



### the coal mono

- economy, particularly in eastern 7


### Kentucky. 8



### First I would like to tha nk you for 9


### promulgating this rule. It will be a great help 10


### for the area in which I live, as well as for the 11


### entire state. The coal industry in Kentucky has 12


### strong influence over the state legislature and 13


### our enforcement agencies. We need national help 14



### t o enforce the laws, to force Kentucky to do what 15


### we should do to protect our land and our people. 16


### Your work is extremely important in 17


### preserving the health and the economy of our 18


### region. Our officials constantly and 19


### consistently fight your efforts at ever y turn, 20


### including our representatives, most of them 21


### except for one, and our two Senators. 22

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### Please know that you do have friends in 1


### the state and the region who've got your back and 2


### who work to stop all efforts to keep you from 3


### doing your job. 4


### Thank you for listening to our governor 5


### and energy candidate secretary and taking their 6


### suggestions to heart. What you've proposed for 7


### Kentucky is very doable. Of course, we would 8


### prefer more strict requirements for Kentucky, but 9


### I'll leave those comments for other sp eakers. 10


### Studies by several independent groups in 11


### Kentucky have indicated that these regulations 12


### will open new opportunities for jobs for laid

- off 13


### coal miners and others connected to our declining 14


### coal industry. The energy efficiency and 15


### renewable energy r equirements hold great promise 16


### for lowering utility bills in a state that wastes 17


### more electricity than almost any other state in 18



### the nation. 19


### In conclusion, Kentucky needs these 20


### regulations, and we thank you for putting them 21


### forth and for passing them. 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 1


### testimony, Mrs. Love. 2


### Mr. Smith, please state your name and 3


### spell it for the court reporter, and begin 4


### testimony. 5


### MR. SMITH: Yes. My name is Kenneth 6


### Smith, last name S

- m

- i

- t

- h. I'm Policy Director 7



### for the Arkansas Advanced Energy Association. I 8


### live in Fayetteville, Arkansas, home of the 9


### University of Arkansas Razorbacks. 10


### The Arkansas Advanced Energy Association, 11


### representing over 80 Arkansas companies and 12


### institutions, supports the proposed 111(d) Rule, 13



### or Clean Power Plan . AEA appreciates the rule's 14


### flexibility and its approach for achieving carbon 15



### emission reductions on a state basis. 16


### The rule's proposed methodology for 17


### carbon reduction, the best system for emission 18


### reduction, offers a set of cost

- effective 19



### advanced ener gy technologies for reducing carbon 20


### emissions through heat

- rate improvement, energy 21


### conservation, and greater use of natural gas and 22

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### renewable energy. 1


### EPA's proposed plan, however, 2


### underestimates the potential contribution of 3


### renewable energy and energy

- ef ficiencies 4


### technologies to emissions reduction to economic 5


### development and jobs. The proposed plan fails to 6


### account for the continuous improvement in these 7


### technologies that will enable greater emission 8


### reductions over time, and discourages companies 9



### from taking early action with advanced energy 10


### technologies. 11


### Now, there are 10 issues that we've 12


### raised in our paper that we will be submitting to 13


### EPA, and I'll just run through these briefly. 14



### First off is that we believe the emission 15


### reduction target for Arkan sas is spot on, due to 16



### the state's electric utilities over the last 10 17


### years, in full knowledge of pending greenhouse 18


### gas reductions, have continued to build and 19


### operate new power plants, coal plants. So the 20


### first issue here is that we believe option one, 21



### carbon reductions over a 10

- year horizon, is 22

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### preferable over option two, which is a lower 1


### carbon target achieved in half the time. 2


### Second, each state's carbon reduction 3


### target reflects the emissions level that the EPA 4



### has determined to be reasonable. It appears to 5


### AAEA that the best system for emission reduction 6


### will work for Arkansas, with the initial and 7


### highest carbon emission reductions coming from 8


### increased deployment of natural gas through CCGT, 9


### combined cycle gas turbines, and a reduction of 10


### 30 per cent, or 68 percent of the target from the 11



### state. 12


### The Advanced Energy Association believes 13


### that if EPA raised its projections for building 14


### blocks three and four, which are the renewable 15


### energy and energy efficiency blocks, that we 16


### would see a higher carbon emissions reduction 17


### level and create unprecedented economic 18


### development for the state and job growth through 19


### increased energy efficiency to annual savings of 20


### 1.5 percent, increasing renewable energy up to 15 21


### percent of the state's generation, and full 22

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### dep loyment of combined heat

- power systems. 1



### Combined heat

- power would lead to more 2


### than $2 billion in investments in our state if we 3


### fully deployed it. Right now, in energy 4


### efficiency, since 2007 or so

-- 2009, actually, 5


### we have found that more than 700 compa nies are 6


### operating in Arkansas that are offering energy

7


### saving measures. This is a brand

- new industry 8


### for the state due to the utility energy 9


### efficiency programs. 10


### We believe, though, that emission 11


### reduction technologies installed between now and 12



### 2020 shou ld be credited for 111(d) state planning 13


### compliance, and that's our fourth recommendation. 14


### Our fifth recommendation is that we fully 15


### support integrated resource planning as a tool 16


### for compliance, and these should be authorized 17



### and included in state reducti on plans. We 18



### believe that a multi

- state approach makes sense, 19


### as well, working on such as the RGGI experience 20


### in New England, or other regional approaches that 21


### are taking place or could take place through 22

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### regional transmission organizations. 1



### We believe th at the EPA should authorize 2


### the use of current renewable energy credit

3


### tracking systems that have been well in place and 4


### well served by the renewable energy industry. 5


### We'd like to see a comparison of rate

6



### based and mass

- based carbon reduction numbers and 7



### s ee how those stack up and which one would be 8


### better for a state to comply with. We would like 9


### to see EPA develop an accounting framework that 10


### applies in each state for making projections. 11


### And as the states develop compliance plans, it 12


### would be very helpf ul if EPA had in place a model 13


### plant that states could follow to better ensure 14


### compliance when the rule is actually turned in, 15


### or the plan is turned, in to the state. 16


### And finally, Arkansas Advanced Energy 17


### Association expresses its appreciation to EPA, 18



### incl uding its consultants and full team who 19


### drafted the plan. The way you've engaged states 20


### and stakeholders, incorporating their comments, 21


### incorporating advanced energy

- type technologies, 22

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### is exemplary and should become a model for all 1


### federal regulatory acti ons. 2


### Thank you. 3


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Smith. 4


### Do either of you have questions for Mrs. 5


### Love or Mr. Smith? Would you, please, first? 6



### MS. BANISTER: Just one for Mr. Smith 7


### with regard to your recommendation number four. 8


### MR. THOMPSON: That's my quest ion. 9


### MS. BANISTER: Is that your question? 10


### MR. THOMPSON: That's my question. 11


### MS. BANISTER: Yeah. Could you just talk 12


### a little, clarify that just a little bit more? 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 14


### MR. SMITH: Yeah. We're seeing utilities 15


### such as in Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, that 16


### are working very hard to start up new energy

17


### efficiency programs, making significant 18


### investments on behalf of ratepayers. 19


### Arkansas has a full set of energy

20


### efficiency programs, hitting renewable energy 21


### targets at 0.75 percent e ach year, up to 1 22

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### percent each year. So we're saving a lot of 1


### carbon, reducing a lot of carbon right now. 2


### We think that these technologies, plus 3


### renewable energy technologies that are to be 4


### deployed over the next six years as this plan

-- 5



### because the actu al start date on the plan is 2020 6



### -- that we should find some way of giving credit 7


### to these programs that are well in place. 8


### It's an incentive. It's encouragement. 9


### And that's what the states need at this point. 10


### So that's the key issue I'm trying to make here. 11


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 12


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you. 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Thanks, Beverly, for 14


### asking that question. 15



### MS. BANISTER: Um

- hm. 16


### MR. SMITH: Thank you very much. 17


### MR. THOMPSON: Yes. Thank you, 18


### respectfully, Mrs. Love and Mr. Smith. Thank you 19


### again for your testimony. 20



### At this time I'd like to invite Laura 21


### Montgomery and Lillian Mood to please come 22

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### forward. 1


### [Pause.] 2


### MR. THOMPSON: And following Mrs. 3


### Montgomery and Mrs. Mood, the Reverend Woody 4


### Bartlett and Paula Swint will be up next. All 5


### right. 6


### [Pause.] 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, ladies. 8


### [Chorus of "Good morning."] 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for coming. 10


### Okay. Starting with you, Mrs. 11


### Montgomery, could you state and spell your name 12


### for the court reporter and begin your testimony? 13



### MS. MONTGO MERY: My name is Laura 14


### Montgomery. I live at 6385 East Deer Hollow Way 15


### in Norcross, Georgia. I'm here to speak up for 16


### stronger EPA rules to limit carbon pollution from 17


### power plants and fight climate change. 18


### Power plants are the largest source of 19



### carbon emissions in the U.S. today, and these 20


### standards are critically important in protecting 21


### public health and in reducing the effects of 22

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### global warming. The new EPA rules will 1



### contribute to a much

- needed transition to a 2


### cleaner electricity system. 3



### I know what it feels like not to be able 4



### to breathe. I have asthma. In the summer 5


### months, the air quality is the worst. In June 6


### and July, breathing is the most difficult. Every 7


### time the air quality alerts go into orange or 8


### red, I get very congested and have an as thmatic 9


### cough. I get a headache. 10


### The unhealthiest days for asthma and 11


### other lung diseases are recorded by EPA in the 12


### Atlanta area by county, for Fulton, Gwinnett, 13


### Cobb, and DeKalb. I don't even need to see the 14


### recorded air quality; I can tell by how I fe el. 15


### Particulate matter, or particle 16


### pollution, especially fine particles, can get 17


### deep into the lungs and cause serious health 18


### problems. Ground

- level ozone is also a serious 19


### health pollutant. Breathing ozone can trigger a 20


### variety of health problems, incl uding chest pain, 21


### coughing, throat irritation, and congestion. It 22

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### can worsen bronchitis, emphysema, and asthma. 1



### Ground

- level ozone also can reduce lung function 2


### and inflame the linings of the lungs. Repeated 3


### exposure may permanently scar lung tissue. 4



### Oz one is experienced as a burning of 5


### sensitive tissues. Even relatively low levels of 6


### ozone can cause health effects. People with lung 7


### disease, children, older adults, and people who 8


### are active outdoors may be particularly sensitive 9



### to ozone. 10



### I urge you to work quickly to strengthen 11


### and finalize strong standards for existing power 12


### plants, and finalize standards for both new and 13


### existing power plants by June 2015. 14


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. 15



### Montgomery. 16


### We'll come back for questions. We'll 17



### come back. 18



### Mrs . Mood, please? 19


### MS. MOOD: My name is Lill Mood, L

- i

- l

- l 20



### M

- o

- o

- d, and I represent the Alliance of Nurses 21



### for Health Environments. 22

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### I'm a retired public health nurse, and I 1


### spent nearly 10 years of my 32

- year career in 2


### public health, working in environmental 3


### protection programs as a liaison between the 4


### South Carolina Department of Health and 5



### Environment Control and citizens who are 6



### concerned about environmental hazards and their 7


### effect on the health of children, families, and 8



### communities. 9


### I had the privilege of chairing the 10


### Institute of Medicine Study of Nursing, Health, 11


### and Environment, which was published in 1998, and 12


### the study reaffirmed that the nursing profession 13


### is rooted in the understanding that our 14


### environment is a primary determinant of health. 15



### Nurse s have a heritage of facilitating 16


### good health and recovery from illness by paying 17


### attention to and modifying environmental 18


### conditions. The IOM study mapped a path forward 19


### for nurses to make a difference by addressing 20


### environmental risks as an integral par t of 21


### practice, education, research, and advocacy. 22

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### I'm pleased today to speak on behalf of 1


### the Alliance of Nurses for Healthy Environments, 2


### a network of individual nurses and nursing 3


### organizations bonded in efforts to prevent and 4



### alleviate environmental haz ards and conditions 5



### that contribute to ill health and the loss of 6


### quality of life. 7


### From our focus on individual patient 8


### health, we nurses have broadened our involvement 9


### to larger issues that impact the health of 10


### populations and communities. 11


### There's no ques tion of the scientific 12


### evidence that climate change is affecting all 13


### dimensions of human life, including health. From 14


### changing patterns of infection and allergies to 15


### new and evolving pathogens and toxic exposures, 16


### from devastating storms, floods, and drou ghts to 17


### loss of homes and jobs, people are reaping the 18


### consequences of carbon pollution and its 19


### widespread effect. 20



### We witness the increased asthma from 21



### carbon emissions and the health threats of 22

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### pollution of water from coal mining and coal

1


### fired power plan ts. We are active in searching 2


### out the specifics of chemical exposures from 3


### fracking to recover natural gas as a solution to 4


### energy needs. We are drawn to sustainable energy 5


### sources without the downside of pollution like 6


### solar and wind energy. 7


### ANHE has p ut its effort into promoting 8


### individual and workplace practices that reduce 9


### our carbon footprint

-- clean energy, recycling, 10


### public transportation, walking and biking, 11


### growing and eating locally grown foods

-- the 12


### multiple strategies that, together, add up to 13


### more than their simple sum, that have a 14


### multiplier effect on health. 15


### Nursing is the largest health profession 16


### in number, and we are present in more places of 17


### contact with people than any other group of 18


### health professionals. Even those of us who are 19



### of ficially retired invest our time in disaster 20


### relief efforts, community improvement projects, 21


### free clinics, civic organizations, and advocacy 22

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### initiatives. 1


### We also enjoy the amazing status of being 2


### the most trusted profession, as determined over 3



### and over in an annual Gallup poll. 4


### We are using our capacity to join with 5


### other health professionals and environmental 6


### colleagues, our elected officials, and our 7


### community neighbors to bend the arc of progress 8


### in reducing carbon pollution and alleviating the 9


### existing effects of climate change and preventing 10


### further damage to our precious home, the earth. 11


### We stand firmly in support of the EPA 12


### Clean Power Plan. We ask that you listen to and 13


### help us find additional ways for the public to 14



### hear and heed our trusted voices as we work 15


### together on climate change. We ask EPA to stand 16



### firm and stand tall with us in the commitment to 17


### make this earth a safe place to live, work, and 18


### play. 19


### Thank you. 20


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you. 21


### Are there any questions for Mrs. 22

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### Montgomery or Mrs. Mood? 1


### [No audible response.] 2


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, ladies, thank you 3


### very much for your testimony today. We 4


### appreciate it. 5


### [Pause.] 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. The Reverend Woody 7


### Bartlett and Paula Swint, please come forward. 8



### [Pause.] 9



### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 10


### [Chorus of "Good morning."] 11


### MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, 12


### Reverend Bartlett, could you state and spell your 13


### name for the court reporter and then, please, 14


### begin your testimony? 15


### REV. BARTLETT: Okay. I'm the Reverend 16


### Woody Bartlett, W

- o

- o

- d

- y, Bartlett, B

- a

- r

- t

- l

- e

17



### t

- t. 18


### I'm a retired Episcopal clergyman. My 19


### wife and I cofounded Georgia Interfaith Power and 20


### Light some 11 years ago. It is now a $200,000

- a

21


### year private nonprofit that has over 500 partner 22

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### congregations across the State of Geo rgia. We 1


### cover many different environmental issues, but we 2


### are most focused on the harmful byproducts of the 3


### ways we generate and use electrical power

-- 4


### namely, carbon emissions. 5


### This morning I want to tell you my story 6


### and why I got involved. I'm doing this in the 7


### hope that it will add one more voice to the 8


### chorus that is demanding that we do all in our 9


### power to reduce our carbon emissions. 10


### It started with me in the spring of 1988, 11


### over 25 years ago. I was in San Diego for a 12


### conference on poverty. By mistake, I got there a 13


### day early. I had a free day in San Diego. So, 14


### what do you do? You go to the zoo. 15


### I'd never been to the San Diego Zoo. 16


### It's a beautiful place with many exotic creatures 17



### exhibited in their natural habitats. There are 18


### just a few ca ges and bars. Mostly, it is animals 19


### with humans looking at them like so many 20


### honeybees around the first blossoms of spring. 21


### As I wandered along the pathways, my 22

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### curiosity was piqued by a red triangle with a 1


### white E in it at the top right corner of many of 2


### the exhibit markers. Looking at my guidebook, I 3



### was startled to see that it meant that that 4


### species was endangered. 5


### Then I noticed the explanation off to the 6


### side of each of those displays that told how and 7


### why that particular species was so vulnerable. 8


### Almost all mentioned the presence of humans as a 9


### prime cause. The red triangles then took on a 10



### blood

- red hue. 11


### Finishing my tour of the zoo in the early 12


### afternoon, I went across the park to the Natural 13


### History Museum, and

-- wouldn't you know it?

-- 14



### it fe atured a special exhibit on extinction. I 15


### couldn't stay out of it. And it told similar 16



### stories to those told in the zoo. And it claimed 17


### that 99 percent of the extinctions were caused by 18


### the direct or indirect presence of humanity. 19


### Finally, at the end of the exhibit, I was 20


### faced with one final chart. It read, rates of 21


### extinction: Before man, one species every 1,000 22

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### years. During the age of the dinosaurs at the 1


### great collapse, 100 species per year. At the 2


### present time

-- that is, in 1988

-- 10 times th at 3


### rate. That is, 1,000 species a year. And at the 4


### going rate of increase, by the year 2000

-- 5


### that's 14 years ago

-- several species an hour, 6


### or some 20,000 per year. 7



### The last line on the chart was the real 8


### shocker. It said, "When humanity?" I was 9



### stu nned. We are in a great extinction event that 10


### is harsher than any that has come before, way 11


### harsher than the extinction that wiped out the 12


### mighty dinosaurs off the face of the earth. I 13


### didn't know that, at that time, up to 90 percent 14


### of the existing spec ies had disappeared. 15


### If the collapse had happened in their 16


### time, it could also happen in our time. And it 17


### could take out humanity, too. These are my 18


### children, my grandchildren, my people, my flock. 19


### My eyes misted up. 20


### When I returned to Atlanta, I checke d out 21


### the claims at the zoo. There was fairly solid 22

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### agreement. There are many different opinions 1


### about the mechanisms for the great collapse. But 2


### high on every list was the release of carbon long 3


### stored under the earth in coal and oil, released 4



### back int o the atmosphere in the form of so

- called 5


### greenhouse gases. And most of those are 6


### generated as we power our lives, condition our 7


### air, transport ourselves, grow our food, power 8


### our industry. 9



### So at what cost do we live? Can we 10



### restrain the release of these greenhouse gases in 11


### some meaningful way? I come begging that the 12


### proposed carbon pollution standards be adopted. 13


### And I make this plea in the name of my people. 14


### Thank you. 15


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Reverend 16


### Bartlett. Thank you for your testimony. 17



### Mrs. S wint, please. 18


### MS. SWINT: Hi. I'm Paula Swint, P

- a

- u

19



### l

- a S

- w

- i

- n

- t. 20


### I want to say good morning and thank you 21


### for holding a hearing in the Southeast. The vast 22

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### number of power plants in the Southeast are a 1


### major source of carbon pollution. Many of these 2



### p lants are in rural areas, where local residents 3


### experience a greater effect from the harmful 4



### influence. 5


### I want to thank you on behalf of regular 6


### people who feel that we don't have a voice, that 7



### no one cares about those of us who live in these 8



### rural areas. So I appreciate the opportunity 9


### today to speak to you about my family. 10


### I'm a regular person. I'm not a 11


### corporation. I'm not a business. I'm not a 12



### scientist. I'm not even an activist. But I am a 13


### mother, wife, retired educator, and I've lived in 14



### rural Georgia almost all my life. 15


### My husband and I have spent the last 40 16


### years both pursuing and living the American 17


### dream. In 1977, we moved to land that has been 18


### in my husband's family for almost 100 years. We 19


### built a home and became busy with our jobs, our 20


### children, our families, our lives. We live down 21


### a dirt road surrounded by trees, good neighbors, 22

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### and precious memories. 1


### My husband's father and grandfather set 2


### an example of stewardship, which he continues to 3


### follow, leaving the land a little better for the 4


### next generation. He has worked hard restoring 5


### his father's home place

-- the old cabin, the 6


### fruit orchards, the garden plots, and the native 7



### woodlands. 8


### For many years, we've depended on our 9


### small gardens to provide fresh fruit and 10


### vegetables for our f amily and for our neighbors. 11


### Growing these fresh foods continues to be a 12


### source of pride and a symbol of good health. 13


### Besides gardening, my husband and I love 14


### just being outside. We enjoy hiking through our 15


### native woodlands right behind our home, and we 16


### walk as much as possible. We're retired now and 17


### able to be active outside almost every day. 18


### Living in the country is an important part of our 19


### healthy lifestyle. 20


### We never thought that our small community 21


### would experience poor air quality, yet in 2008, 22

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### ou r local paper carried this statement: "For the 1


### past three years, Washington County has exceeded 2


### federal clean air standards pertaining to fine 3


### particulate matter"

-- 2008. Our local air 4


### quality continues to be a concern. 5


### Right now, my family is healthy, but 6


### several years ago, my husband had a rare form of 7


### pneumonia, which rapidly advanced, restricting 8


### his respiratory system in just a few hours. He 9


### went from being healthy and strong to lying in a 10


### specially equipped isolation room at the 11


### University Hospita l in Augusta, over an hour from 12



### where we lived. 13


### After several months of treatment, he 14


### fully recovered and was able to return to work. 15


### But since his experience, we better understand 16


### how quickly and how severely the lack of oxygen 17


### can affect a person's healt h, even a healthy 18


### person's health. 19


### On certain days in the summer now, we can 20



### tell that it's harder to breathe than on other 21


### days. But we do not have asthma or respiratory 22

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### problems. But some of our neighbors and their 1


### grandchildren do. And I'm concerned that the 2


### higher levels of air pollution will increase the 3


### frequency of their breathing problems. 4


### I have very real concerns that the poor 5


### air quality can have ill effects on our health as 6


### we age. If power plants continue to emit unsafe 7


### levels of pollution in such large quantities, it 8


### will increase the exposure to those of us who 9


### live in rural Georgia where the air quality is 10


### already questionable. If we can't be sure that 11


### the air we breathe is safe, we may need to 12


### drastically scale down the amount of time w e 13


### spend outside. 14



### I also wonder what the cumulative effect 15


### will be on our fruit and vegetable crops that 16


### we've depended on for health. I cannot imagine 17


### giving up the things we love because of poor air 18


### quality. We want to pass our family heritage of 19



### stewar dship and good health on to our children. 20


### We hate to think that the land which my husband, 21


### his father, and grandfather have cared for and 22

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### protected for nearly 100 years could be 1


### undermined by greed, deregulation, or apathy. 2


### We really need your help. We depend on 3


### your agency to consider the human side of this 4


### important decision. This is a moral issue with 5


### dangerous consequences. 6


### Thank you for the opportunity to express 7


### my concerns. Please continue to address ways 8


### that we can improve our air quality so e veryone 9


### can experience and appreciate the beauty and 10


### benefits of walking outside. 11


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Swint. 12


### Before you leave, Reverend Bartlett and 13


### Mrs. Swint, let me just ask here, are there any 14


### questions? 15


### [No audible response.] 16



### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, again, thank 17


### you both for your testimony. Thank you very 18



### much. 19


### [Pause.] 20


### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like to 21


### ask Ita Hardesty Mason and Bobby Green to please 22

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### come forward. 1


### [Pause.] 2


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. Good 3


### morning to both of you. 4


### [Chorus of "Good morning."] 5


### MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, Mr. 6


### Mason, could you state your name

-- 7



### MR. GREEN: Green. 8



### MR. THOMPSON: I'm sorry? 9



### MR. GREEN: Green. 10



### MS. MASON: I'm Ita, I

- t

- a. 11



### MR. THOMPSON: Sorry. 12


### MS. MASON: That's okay. 13



### MR. THOM PSON: Okay. Starting with 14



### Mason. Which is Mason? 15



### MS. MASON: That would be me. 16


### MR. THOMPSON: Starting with Mrs. Mason. 17


### Could you state your name and spell it for the 18



### court reporter? 19


### MS. MASON: Yes. It's Ita Hardesty 20



### Mason. That's I

- t

- a H

- a

- r

- d

- e

- s

- t

- y Mason, M

- a

21



### s

- o

- n. 22

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### I was born in 1956. And actually, I'm 1


### going to turn my page to my opening page. Sorry. 2



### [Pause.] 3


### MS. MASON: My name is Ita Hardesty 4


### Mason. And thank you for this opportunity to 5


### speak. I have a story to share. 6


### In 2012, I was able to visit Alaska. 7


### While there, I went to the Anchorage Museum and 8



### found the Smithsonian collection of the native 9


### people of Alaska. Within this exhibit were video 10


### tables and benches nearby. So I settled by one 11


### of them and watched a Native Alaskan woman sp eak. 12


### She told of her village, isolated along 13



### the coast of Northern Alaska. She shared that 14


### her people often wondered, why have they settled 15


### there? She mentioned that in the last few years 16



### the storms that have hit the coastline come more 17


### frequently and wi th greater force. She tells 18


### that the warmer temps have caused their terra 19


### firma, which is tundra, to thaw. 20


### And with each storm, it hammers their 21


### coastline, and they are losing 10 to 15 feet of 22

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### their land with each storm. They are moving 1


### their villages ba ck away from the coastline. 2


### What was once frozen is now thawing. 3


### This Native Alaskan said they now know 4


### why they are there. They are there to sound the 5


### alarm that it is happening, and we must address 6



### it. 7


### Let me be clear. Nuclear and natural gas 8



### are not the answer to sustaining our energy 9


### needs. Solar and wind and other options like 10


### tides and geothermal need to be our focus. And 11


### our grid

-- the lines that move our energy to one 12


### point to another

-- is very wasteful. It is my 13


### understanding that a huge pe rcentage of this 14


### energy along the way from source to home 15


### dissipates. 16


### The argument of the added costs should 17


### not be our demise. We must clean up our act as 18


### soon as possible. 19



### I was born in 1956 and became an 20


### environmental activist. And many of us began to 21


### realize our climate was destined to be spoiled. 22

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### Yet it would not be at its worst in my lifetime. 1


### I know now, and others realize, that it is 2


### happening much faster than we thought. My 3


### seaside family and friends worldwide are seeing 4



### tides arrive on thei r land with each high tide. 5


### During Hurricane Sandy, cousins in Long 6


### Beach, Long Island, witnessed the Long Island 7



### Sound and the Atlantic Ocean come within their 8


### family room by five feet. 9


### I am grateful our nation and our 10


### lawmakers are finally beginning to a ddress this 11


### carbon footprint. It has a cause

- and

- effect that 12


### we must address. And the way that we do this 13


### affects everything we use and need, from heating 14


### to cooling. Manufacturing our goods, growing, 15


### transporting, and storing our food has a carbon 16



### foot print. 17


### I am glad the EPA has opened this day to 18



### listen. And I have heard there is a 45

- year gap 19


### between our pollution and the effect it causes. 20



### We must excel these time frames. Even the time 21


### frames within the proposal of the EPA need to be 22

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### -- you know, 2030? No, let's talk a little 1


### sooner. We must act quickly. 2


### The green switch is within our grasp. It 3


### will create jobs and will save the overall health 4


### of our home, this planet earth. 5


### I hope all utility providers and 6


### officials that manage our energy needs embrace 7


### this energy switch, for we have wasted enough 8



### time on non

- sustainable forms. And if these 9



### communities and our states can't address this 10


### quickly enough, I thank the EPA for stepping 11


### forward and helping us towards this direction. 12



### MR. THOMPSON: Tha nk you, Mrs. Mason. 13


### Thank you for your testimony. 14



### Mr. Green? 15


### MR. GREEN: Good morning, everyone. 16


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 17


### MR. GREEN: My name is Bobby Green. I am 18


### the Founder and CEO of BioGreenAlgae Enterprises 19


### and CHEC Pro, Incorporated. I am a lo cal 20


### resident here in Atlanta. I actually live on the 21


### other side of these buildings. We live in the 22

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### neighborhood behind the Georgia Dome. Those are 1


### some of the most distressed neighborhoods in the 2


### City of Atlanta. 3


### Last year, I got involved in renewable 4



### e nergy and energy efficiency, because in my 5


### neighborhood, we are a neighborhood, a community 6



### that lives with an annual income of less than 7


### $19,000 a year. And my neighbors are paying 8


### extremely high prices every month for 9


### electricity. When your income is t hat low and 10


### your monthly electrical bill is $200 or $250, 11



### that's ridiculous. 12


### We're talking about people who are living 13


### in houses and apartments no bigger than 900 14


### square feet, and they're paying these extravagant 15


### prices in terms of power. 16


### We spoke with th e PSC last year. They 17


### told us Georgia Power would help us regardless. 18


### So I got a number of our neighbors to go out and 19


### make those calls to Georgia Power to come out and 20


### see, why is it we're losing so much energy in 21


### these old homes? Obviously, because th ese homes 22

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### are so old, they've been since the '40s and '50s. 1


### So they're not up to standards. 2


### So we're constantly

-- but people

-- and 3


### they're saying, "Okay, just go out and buy some 4


### new fridge, go out and buy, you know, new stove 5



### or whatever." 6



### Here's the r eal deal. We can barely make 7


### the rent. How do you expect us to go out and buy 8


### these new stuff that are energy efficient when 9


### they're not

-- I mean when we can't? Because 10


### you're talking about a refrigerator for $2,000 or 11


### $3,000 that's going to be energy efficient. We 12



### can't afford that. 13


### So, I took it upon myself to say, I have 14


### to do something. Since Georgia Power and 15


### Southern Company isn't going to help, and 16


### obviously the PSC is not going to help, because 17


### I've never seen where the commission speaks 18


### highl y of a company like that, where we're 19


### looking at, as far as we're concerned, it's a 20


### monopoly. We're not given any options. 21


### When we're talking about bringing 22

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### renewable energy to Georgia so, you know, we can 1


### help stave off some of these prices, help open up 2


### jobs for a lot of these people so they can pay 3


### these bills, we're not seeing any help coming 4


### from that department. We just keep hearing that, 5


### "Oh, just give them a call." That doesn't cut 6



### for us. 7


### You know, here's how I look at this. 8



### This earth is ours. According to Psalms 115, it 9


### says, "The heavens is the Lord, and earth he has 10


### given to man." So if he's given this to us, it's 11


### our job to be a good steward of this earth. So 12


### in being a good steward of this earth, it is that 13



### we make certain we can exist because the air and 14



### environment is clean and livable. We also have 15


### to understand that we need energy, yes. 16


### And there's always going to be a carbon 17


### footprint. This is never going to go away. But 18


### we can reduce the amount of carbon footprint 19


### that's being, you know, put out there. We're 20


### talking about 32 percent of

-- according to you, 21


### the EPA, 32 percent of our carbon footprint comes 22

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### from electrical power usage. 1


### So, how can we reduce this? We have 2


### other ways of producing energy and electricity, 3


### fuel, and s o forth. For myself, I looked into, 4


### what can I do to help my people? Because we need 5


### jobs. We need jobs to pay these bills, and what 6


### are we going to do? 7


### So we came up with an idea, or at least I 8


### came up with an idea. I need to help. I need to 9



### do somet hing. I'm not going to rely on the big 10


### power company to help us, because they're not. 11



### So we need some sort of renewable idea. 12


### We came up with using algae as a source. Because 13


### with algae, we can create integrated bio

14


### refineries where we can produce fuel, which is 15


### gasoline, diesel, and even jet fuel. We can also 16


### produce bio

- products. 17


### We can also produce power that can be 18


### added to the grid that will be

-- at least we 19


### know these are not crazy things that are going to 20


### fluctuate prices all up and down for peo ple. 21


### So, part of that

-- in doing this, we 22

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### started looking carefully into, how can this be 1


### done? How can it be done correctly and possibly 2


### like creating jobs as well? Whereas a lot of 3


### stuff in terms of my neighborhood that needs 4


### energy efficiency, so we need training. 5


### We need to create an atmosphere where we 6


### can train people who can actually go out and do 7


### those jobs in communities like that and create, 8


### you know, another means of income for themselves, 9


### as well in helping these old homes become energy 10



### effic ient. 11


### So we propose to do these things. We 12


### propose that, hey, we can produce these products 13


### and we can produce these products at a lot 14


### cheaper price. We also studied and learned that, 15


### hey, with all the landfills in the United States, 16


### reducing 65 percent of these landfill, we can 17


### provide up to 2 percent of the electrical power 18


### in this country from just landfill, methane gas. 19


### We also learned in this process that we 20


### can provide products that are environmentally 21


### friendly, not all these petro

- chemical products 22

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### like plastics that just are not biodegradable. 1


### We can provide these biodegradable products 2


### using, you know, new technologies. 3


### We're using new business methods, using 4



### lean

-- into building these products. So we know 5



### what our customers want. We're out th ere 6


### speaking to customers. We're not just talking, 7


### you know, for ourselves. We actually go out and 8


### speak to the customers, unlike the big companies 9


### do, because we're down in rural Georgia. 10


### We're speaking with farmers. So many 11


### farmers are having to turn over their farming 12


### land that their family has owned for years to 13


### become growers for other large corporations, 14


### because on their own they can't sustain it based 15


### on the costs that they're paying in terms of 16


### electrical power and fuel. They need these 17


### things. 18


### They also need help in reducing their 19


### greenhouse gases, as well, which is usually 20


### nitrous oxide. Well, thanks to the, you know, 21


### new technologies, we can help these farmers here. 22

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### We can provide our farmers with a means of 1


### disposing these things, of coming up with better 2


### fertilizer, and stuff like that. 3


### But if we're constantly being held down 4


### and held back by the larger companies from making 5


### these things happen, then who's going to create 6


### these jobs for these people to pay these enormous 7



### bills? 8



### Because we know when it comes to the 9


### economies we're talking about, you know, from an 10


### economic standpoint, you're looking at the 11


### overall cost. When it really comes down to it, 12


### renewable energy and a power plant from that 13


### standpoint in term is far less expensive than 14


### that of nuclear plant, and it's a lot cleaner. 15


### MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Green, I'm sorry, but 16


### I'm going to have to ask you to wrap up your 17


### testimony. 18


### MR. GREEN: All right. 19


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay? And give us an 20


### opportunity to ask questions. 21



### MR. GREEN: Please. 22

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### M R. THOMPSON: Do either of the panel 1


### have any questions? 2


### [No audible response.] 3


### MR. THOMPSON: I do have a question for 4


### you. BioGreen Enterprises, is that what you

-- 5


### MR. GREEN: Yes, sir. BioGreenAlgae 6


### Enterprises. 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Algae Enterprises; th at's 8


### what I left out. All right. And how long have 9


### you been in business? How long? 10



### MR. GREEN: We've been in business over a 11



### year now. 12


### MR. THOMPSON: A year now? Okay. Okay. 13


### All right. Thank you for your testimony. 14


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, guys. 15



### MR. T HOMPSON: Um

- hm. 16


### And, Mrs. Mason, thank you for your 17


### testimony as well. You did a great job, by the 18



### way. 19


### MS. MASON: Thank you. 20


### [Laughter.] 21


### MS. MASON: I get to gloat. 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, I'd 1


### like to ask Dianna Wedincamp and Teri Blanton t o 2


### please come forward. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 5


### MS. WEDINCAMP: Good morning. 6



### MR. THOMPSON: Are you Mrs.

-- who are 7



### you? 8


### MS. WEDINCAMP: Wedincamp. 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. 10



### Teri Blanton? 11


### [No audible response.] 12



### MR. THOMPSON: No? 13


### [Pause.] 14



### MR. THOMPSON: Well, up next will be 15


### Daniel Blackman, and then Don Safer. So, is 16



### Daniel Blackman in the room? 17



### MR. BLACKMAN: I'm here. 18


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, if you could 19


### come forward, you can give us your testimony. 20



### [Pause.] 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Good morning to the 22

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### both of you. 1


### [Chorus of "Good morning."] 2


### MR. THOMPSON: So, could you please state 3


### and spell your name for the court reporter? 4


### MS. WEDINCAMP: Yes. My name's Dianna 5



### WEDINCAMP. D

- i

- a

- n

- n

- a, Wedincamp, W

- e

- d

- i

- n

- c

6



### a

- m

- p. 7



### I live in Emanuel C ounty, Twin City, 8


### Georgia. And I'm a mom of two athletes. I am a 9



### member of Excelsior EMC. I am a member of 10


### Georgia Farm Bureau. I am a member of FACE and a 11


### former Riverkeeper. 12


### I'm here today to say thank you for 13


### allowing the citizens in Georgia to voic e their 14


### opinions on the new carbon rules. I support the 15



### EPA on the new carbon rules. 16


### As I mentioned above, I am a mom of two 17



### athletes. And our children deserve clean air. 18


### Our kids deserve to play baseball, football, 19


### soccer, basketball, tennis, golf, wha tever sport 20


### they would like without running to the sidelines 21


### every so often to grab an inhaler. 22

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### I support the new EPA carbon rules, 1


### because my family are avid outdoorsmen. As an 2


### outdoor recreationer, I also

-- we also deserve 3


### the right to enjoy the great outdoors without 4


### worrying about checking air quality and water 5


### quality before planning our trip. 6


### Georgia recreation and tourism brings 7



### billions of dollars of revenue to the State of 8


### Georgia every year, making it the lead industry 9


### in Georgia. Without clean air, clean water, this 10


### industry cannot provide thousands of jobs for 11


### Georgians that need income. 12


### So I ask EPA today to establish strong 13


### carbon rules to protect our right for clean air. 14


### Again, thank you for the opportunity today to 15


### speak. 16



### MR. THOMPSON: S ure. Thank you, Mrs. 17


### Wedincamp. 18


### Okay. Just one second, Mr. Blackman. 19


### So, Mr. Blackman, would you state your 20



### name and

-- 21


### MR. BLACKMAN: Daniel Blackman. So, do I 22

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### get like a signal at five minutes? You guys will 1


### just let me know? 2



### MR. THOMPSON: No. It w ill

-- 3


### MR. BLACKMAN: Oh, okay. 4


### MR. THOMPSON: So, could you spell your 5


### name for the court reporter and then begin your 6


### testimony? 7


### MR. BLACKMAN: Yes. My name is D

- a

- n

- i

8



### e

- l. Last name is Blackman, B

- l

- a

- c

- k

- m

- a

- n. 9



### MR. THOMPSON: Um

- hm. Please begin. 10


### MR. BLACKMAN: Okay. So I'm going to 11


### read somewhat of a prepared statement that I 12


### have, and then I'm going to offer up an opinion. 13


### And again, just like the lady next to me, 14


### I appreciate you all being here. I know you guys 15



### have heard a lot of voices toda y, and you'll hear 16


### a lot going into tomorrow. So we appreciate you 17


### allowing us to be a part of this process. 18


### I want to open up by saying that I 19


### challenge any argument

-- first and foremost, I 20


### do support the clean energy rule. I think it's 21


### important for u s. I grew up with asthma. And as 22

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### the young lady said earlier, I played soccer for 1


### years, and I ran track, and I had several 2


### instances where, growing up, I remember the 3


### challenges of someone that has it. 4


### So I challenge any argument that clean

-- 5



### clean can be measured by a single emission rate 6


### while ignoring air quality and land and water 7


### impacts, and ignoring any technology's full life 8


### cycle. 9


### What the public requires is a 10


### straightforward account of the true cost of 11


### electric generation. And the reason why I say 12


### this is because right here in Georgia, I know 13


### over the past decade, we've imported about $2.9 14


### billion worth of coal per year. And that's more 15


### than any other state around the United States. 16


### Now, these ideas, although they're 17



### innovative in their ideas , I believe that with us 18


### being in Atlanta today, being in the South, the 19


### reason why I think it's so important for us to 20


### have a say

- so in this is because Ivan Allen, Jr., 21


### and Martin Luther King, during the Civil Rights 22

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### movement, they knew that there was an issue, that 1


### even though we did business as usual during the 2


### movement, there was just some progress that had 3


### to be made. And I believe what this represents 4


### is progress. 5


### My grandfather was a consulate general to 6


### New York and ultimately served in his latter 7


### years as a diplomat to the United Nations. And 8


### in 1987, the United Nations co

- defined 9


### sustainable development as "the ability to meet 10


### the needs of the present without compromising the 11


### ability of future generations to meet their own 12


### needs." And I truly be lieve that what we're 13


### doing is in the best interests of our children. 14


### I am a candidate in Georgia for the 15


### Public Service Commission. But I'm here today to 16


### speak to you as a father and as a husband and as 17



### someone that has traveled around the State of 18



### Georg ia that has spoken to people in rural 19


### Georgia that are affected every single day by the 20


### decisions that we're going to making today. 21


### Now, I do appreciate the industry and the 22

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### individuals that are here, because I think that 1


### this is an open opportunity for a dialog and not 2


### a monolog. I don't expect a one

- sided 3


### conversation. And what all of we will hear today 4


### is we'll hear the opinions of environmentalists 5


### and conservationists, like myself. And we'll 6


### also hear the industry. We'll hear the business 7


### community , and I think that's important. 8


### What we won't hear is the 300,000 9


### children in Georgia that suffer from asthma. You 10


### know, they're not going to be able to give their 11


### testimony today. We're not going to hear from 12


### the 1.8 million people in Georgia that live at or 13


### below poverty, which are affected every single 14


### day. 15


### Recently, in Georgia, we had some of the 16



### worst

- recorded weather on record, as many of you 17


### all remembered and saw it outplayed through 18


### national media, what was held as "Snowmageddon." 19



### And we also ha ve seen some of the hottest 20


### summers. The last two Julys have been some of 21



### the hottest on record. 22

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### The reason why I bring those up is 1


### because we fussed and we really looked, and we 2


### saw the impact that it had on our children being 3


### in school. But when you ad d up the fact that 4


### 300,000 of our children are suffering from 5


### asthma, you add up the days missed from work and 6


### missed from school, I think it's very important 7



### for us to address that. 8


### Right here in Georgia, especially, I 9


### think this is the perfect example of why this is 10


### important, not just because of the coal

- fired 11


### plants we have. But as I travel throughout 12


### Georgia, I was just in Macon and spoke to some 13


### people in Juliette, Georgia, about Plant Scherer. 14


### And we also have a nuclear expansion in Georgia. 15



### And al l these things, in my opinion, 16


### should really be based upon the one thing. When 17


### I think about the State of Georgia, and our seal 18


### says, "Wisdom, Justice, and Moderation." And I 19


### think it's wise for us, one, to have this 20



### conversation. 21


### But, you know, I'll end with a quote from 22

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### the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., who, 1


### obviously, as we know, was a native of Atlanta. 2


### But he said, "A threat to justice anywhere"

-- 3


### "An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice 4


### everywhere." 5


### And I think for us to not surely look f or 6



### -- look down the line, look over the next 10 7


### years and really, truly invest today into our 8


### generations for tomorrow would be a grave mistake 9



### on our part. 10


### So I encourage you to take into 11


### consideration all the comments that are being 12


### made, but also to mak e sure that we're putting 13


### the right things in place that allow our children 14


### to have the same opportunity 50 years from now to 15



### make the same decisions as us. 16


### Thank you so much. 17


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Blackman 18


### and Mrs. Wedincamp. 19


### Are there any questio ns? 20


### MS. BANISTER: I have a question for Mrs. 21


### Wedincamp. You said "FACE." What did that stand 22

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### for? 1



### MRS. WEDINCAMP: Fall

- line Alliance for 2


### Clean Energy. 3


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Anything else? 5



### MS. BANISTER: No. 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, aga in, thank 7


### you for your testimony. 8


### MR. BLACKMAN: Thank you all. 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 10


### Okay. At this time, I'd like to ask Don 11


### Safer to please come forward. 12


### [Pause.] 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, Mr. Safer. 14


### MR. SAFER: Good morning. 15



### MR. THOMPS ON: If you would pronounce, 16


### spell your name for the court reporter, and then 17


### you can begin your testimony, sir. 18


### MR. SAFER: Thank you. 19



### MR. THOMPSON: You're welcome. 20


### MR. SAFER: My name is Don Safer, D

- o

- n 21



### S

- a

- f

- e

- r. 22

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### I want to thank the EPA for providing 1


### this opportunity for public input. And I also 2


### would like to thank you for the five minutes. 3


### That's a good amount of time, and I appreciate 4



### that. 5


### I'm from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm the 6


### former Board Chairman and current Policy 7



### Committee Chairman for the T ennessee 8


### Environmental Council. I prepared these comments 9



### for the Tennessee Environmental Council. 10


### Time is running out on our opportunity to 11


### change course on our energy policies and 12


### practices before it is too late to avoid the most 13



### drastic effects of clim ate change. We 14


### desperately need to dramatically reduce the 15


### impact our voracious appetite for energy is 16


### having on our fundamental life support systems, 17


### our biosphere. 18


### We trust it is still possible to have a 19


### healthy planet and a healthy economy supporting 20



### h ealthy people and biota. But we must change 21


### quickly and decisively to more sustainable 22

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### technologies and behaviors. 1


### The EPA's Clean Power Plan is a good 2


### start. It recognizes the need for reducing our 3


### carbon output. But we must do more and do it 4



### faster be cause it is crucial that the Federal 5


### Government begin contributing to the solution on 6


### which many individuals, businesses, nonprofits, 7


### and state and local governments have already made 8


### much progress. 9


### Fortunately, there is a new energy system 10


### emerging which will give us the power we need to 11


### build a sustainable future that we can be proud 12


### to pass on to our future. The truly clean 13


### electricity system of the future is here today. 14


### Energy efficiency; energy conservation; 15


### renewables like solar, wind, tidal power, and 16


### more; and new energy storage systems are making 17


### huge centralized power plants obsolete. 18


### The Clean Power Plan greatly 19


### underestimates the revolution going on today in 20


### electricity technology. Unfortunately, the plan 21


### makes a monumental and possibly tragic blunder in 22

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### supporting nuclear power as a part of the answer 1


### for carbon pollution. 2


### It is a mistake to exchange one 3


### environmental nightmare for another. This plan 4


### totally ignores nuclear fission's fatal, 5



### fundamental flaws. Nuclear reactors manufacture 6



### ins ane amounts of radiation, which must be 7


### isolated from the biosphere for hundreds of 8


### thousands of years. We still have no plan for 9


### safe long

- term storage of its high

- level waste. 10


### Misleadingly labeled low

- level 11


### radioactive waste is being burned, processed, and 12


### buried in increasingly risky ways. There is 13


### currently a proposal to allow waste oil from 14


### nuclear power plants into our commercial oil 15


### recycling stream. There is a pressure to allow 16


### radioactive metals to be recycled. 17


### Excess manmade atmospheric carbon is the 18


### devil this plan knows. Manmade radiation is the 19


### one the EPA is missing. Nuclear power is not 20


### clean, sustainable, renewable, economical, safe, 21



### or reliable. 22

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### It is flirting with disaster to provide 1


### more subsidies to continue operating dangerous, 2



### leak y, old nuclear reactors. Building new 3


### reactors is incredibly expensive and extremely 4


### slow. It is plagued with significant cost 5


### overruns, delays, and design problems. 6


### There is always the weighing of cost 7


### versus safety; often, cost wins, lower cost wins. 8



### T he Tennessee Valley Authority Watts Bar 9


### Unit 2 is a case in point. It is one of the five 10



### under

- construction reactors the plan takes into 11


### account. This reactor is an antiquated ice 12


### condenser, or eggshell containment, design from 13



### the 1960s. It relies on 3 million pounds of 14


### chipped ice hanging in baskets surrounding the 15



### reactor to allow a thinner containment vessel. 16


### This design is especially vulnerable to 17


### releasing massive amounts of radiation in a loss 18


### of coolant accident. Construction began on Watts 19



### Bar 2 in 1973; it is scheduled to come online in 20


### 2015. Over 6 billion will have been spent in 42 21


### years before a single watt has been generated. 22

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### Nuclear power has extreme downside risks. 1


### The Chernobyl accident caused thousands of 2


### deaths, disease, and birth de fects, while costing 3


### over 300 billion. The triple

- meltdown at 4


### Fukushima forced the long

- term evacuation of over 5


### 150,000 people; it will cost hundreds of billions 6



### of dollars. The toll of death and disease is 7


### only slowly emerging. 8


### In the United States, we have 23 nearly 9


### identical aging GE Mark 1 reactors still 10


### operating. There are three at Browns Ferry. We 11


### are downwind from those Browns Ferry reactors. 12


### Nuclear power is not an acceptable 13


### replacement for carbon

- based generation. We 14



### should launch an all

- out effort to build a truly 15


### clean energy system with renewables and energy 16


### efficiency. 17


### Thank you. 18


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Safer. 19


### Are there any questions for Mr. Safer? 20


### MS. BANISTER: Yes, I have one. 21


### So, I just wanted to make sure

-- your 22

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### concerns about nuclear as a viable option, that's 1


### just general? You have general concerns about 2


### nuclear, not just the specific plants that you 3


### identified? Are there plants that you

-- 4


### MR. SAFER: The former Board Chairman, 5


### Gregory Jaczko, of the Nuclear Regulatory 6



### Co mmission, is on record having stated that not a 7


### single one of the over 100 reactors operating 8


### currently in the United States he considers safe. 9


### But I would say that the Browns Ferry 10



### reactors in Tennessee

-- I'm in the Tennessee 11


### Valley Authority area. I fo cus on TVA. 12



### MS. BANISTER: Um

- hm. 13



### MR. SAFER: But all of their reactors are 14


### old designs, and not that the new designs are any 15


### better. There's significant issues with the 16


### AP1000s that are being built in South Carolina 17


### and Georgia. 18


### But my concerns are that the technology 19


### is just too complicated. And that radioactive 20


### waste, when you split the nucleus of a uranium 21


### atom, you are multiplying radiation. The fuel 22

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### rods that come out of those reactors that are 1


### called spent are 1 to 3 million times more 2



### radioactive than the fuel rods that went in with 3


### highly enriched uranium. 4


### And they contain a stew of radioactive 5


### isotopes, many of which are bioavailable and get 6


### into our food system and into our bodies. Once 7


### they get lodged in our bodies, they are much more 8


### likely to cause bad health effects. And they do 9


### get into

-- you know, they affect women more. 10


### They affect children more. They affect the 11



### unborn more. 12


### So I think it's just a dead

- end 13


### technology that had offered promise in the 1950s. 14


### But 70 years later, 60 year s later, we know 15


### enough to know that we should not be messing with 16


### that technology. And in Germany and many other 17


### countries, they have turned away from it. 18


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you very much. 19


### MR. SAFER: Thank you. 20


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you, Mr. 21



### Saf er. 22

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### And at this time, I'd like to ask Mrs. 1


### Blanton to please come forward. 2



### [Pause.] 3


### MR. THOMPSON: I'm glad we got you in the 4


### right room. 5


### MS. BLANTON: Yes, thank you. 6


### [Laughter.] 7


### MS. BLANTON: My name is Teri Blanton. 8



### That's T

- e

- r

- i B

- l

- a

- n

- t

- o

- n. 9



### MR. T HOMPSON: Um

- hm. 10


### MS. BLANTON: My name is Teri Blanton. I 11


### am a Kentuckian. I grew up in Harlan County in 12


### the heart of the Appalachian Mountains. 13


### My community today is a toxic mess 14


### poisoned by acid mine drainage, coal slurry, and 15



### industrial waste. After more than a century of 16


### mining, we remain one of the poorest and least

17


### healthy counties in America. Harlan County has 18


### been losing coal jobs for decades. 19


### First, the industry replaced miners with 20


### explosives. Lately, mining jobs have fallen off 21



### a cliff due t o competition from cheaper energy. 22

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### Most of us understand those jobs are never coming 1



### back. 2


### Despite this hard reality, good people 3


### are coming together in Harlan County and all 4


### across central Appalachia to build a brighter 5


### future. Our people have been prod ucing energy 6


### for this nation for over 100 years. We're proud 7


### of our heritage, but there is no reason we should 8


### stay stuck in time as the world changes. 9


### Why shouldn't Eastern Kentucky be in the 10


### forefront of a clean energy revolution? Why 11



### shouldn't we seiz e this moment to create jobs in 12


### wind, solar, and hydropower? Appalachian people 13


### are resourceful, skilled, and hardworking. We 14


### can put our communities back to work today by 15


### making our homes energy efficient and installing 16



### small

- scale renewable

- energy syst ems. That's 17


### true energy independence. 18


### This EPA climate plan can and should do 19


### much more to help us make this transition to a 20


### clean energy economy. 21


### I'm also a grandmother to three wonderful 22

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### grandchildren. My family lives within 40 miles 1



### of three coal

- burn ing power plants in Kentucky. 2


### All three of my grandchildren suffer from asthma 3



### or other COPD

- related illnesses. 4


### For us, this debate is not just about 5


### reducing the threat of climate change. It is 6


### also about reducing exposure to toxic pollution 7



### from burnin g coal that contributes to high rates 8


### of asthma, premature death, chronic heart and 9


### lung diseases all across Kentucky. 10



### The EPA Clean Power Plan can and should 11


### do much more to protect our health and the health 12


### of all people living in front

- line communities 13


### where dirty energy is extracted and burned. 14


### Unfortunately, the proposed Clean Power rule is 15


### far too weak to safeguard our health, jumpstart a 16


### clean economy, or address the threat of climate 17


### change. 18


### The EPA must stop allowing itself to be 19


### bullied by our po liticians who deny science and 20


### reality. Do your job. Protect our health. 21


### Follow the science. It is past time to act on 22

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### climate. You've got to get this one right for 1


### all of our sakes. You have to get this one right 2



### this time. 3


### I urge the EPA to strengt hen the Clean 4


### Power Plan in these key ways: Make environmental 5


### justice and the health of front

- line communities 6


### a top priority. Right now, the plan you propose 7


### ensures that many of the very same people in 8


### places who are suffering today in Kentucky will 9



### c ontinue to be exposed to high levels of toxic 10


### pollution in the future. This is unacceptable, 11


### and we won't get another chance to get this 12


### right. 13


### Don't give utilities credit for switching 14


### from burning coal to burning natural gas, 15


### garbage, or forest. If you do, we will simply be 16


### switching deck chairs on the Titanic. There is 17


### now convincing evidence that the life cycle of 18


### natural gas is just as harmful to our climate as 19


### mining and burning coal. Burning garbage or 20


### trees also results in unacceptably high carb on 21


### emissions and other harmful pollution. 22

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### Sadly, the EPA's Clean Power Plan uses 1


### outdated and faulty science to give the green 2


### light to building a new dirty power 3


### infrastructure in the place of the current one. 4


### That is unacceptable, and we won't get anoth er 5


### chance to do this right. 6


### Raise the bar. And ask Kentucky to meet 7


### a higher emission

- reduction goal. Kentucky's 8


### reduction target is the third smallest required 9


### by the EPA for any state. According to the 10



### Louisville Courier

- Journal, by next year, our 11



### uti lities will already be more than halfway to 12


### their 2030 goal, under this plan. 13


### Last month, a top state official 14


### testified before our legislature that proposed 15


### rule is so modest that it might not cause a 16


### single additional coal plant in our state to 17



### retire. That's a good indication that your 18


### targets are too low and not strong enough to 19


### safeguard our health or our climate. That's 20


### unacceptable, and we won't get another chance to 21


### get this right. 22

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### Require Kentucky utilities to 1


### significantly ramp up investments in clean, 2


### renewable energy. A major study by Downstream 3


### Strategies shows that Kentucky could generate 34 4


### percent of our electricity from distributed 5


### renewables alone by 2025. 6


### A study by Synapse Energy Economics 7



### describes how a modest renewable and efficienc y 8


### portfolio standard could generate 28,000 new jobs 9


### in Kentucky and lower average bills by 8 to 10 10


### percent compared to a business

- as

- usual scenario. 11



### The limits to what we can achieve in 12


### Kentucky are political, not technical. That's 13


### unacceptable, and we wo n't get another chance to 14


### get this right. 15


### The Clean Power Plan should require 16


### utilities to achieve ambitious energy efficiency 17


### targets before pursuing other strategies. 18


### Ramping up efficiency programs in Kentucky would 19


### create good jobs and allow people to keep money 20


### in their pockets, while benefiting our health and 21



### climate. That's a win

- win. 22

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### But the evidence is clear that Kentucky's 1


### utilities and lawmakers won't prioritize energy 2


### efficiency unless they are required to do so. 3


### That's unacceptable, and we wo n't get another 4


### chance to get it right. 5


### The last point I want to make is one that 6



### I've learned over more than three decades of 7


### working for environmental justice in Kentucky. 8


### The EPA must show up from the very first day with 9


### the courage and commitment to f ully enforce this 10


### rule. You will face obstruction, delay, and what 11


### I call systemic and intentional incompetence from 12


### our lawmakers and agencies. 13


### That's unacceptable. We won't get 14


### another chance to get this right. Our 15


### communities and planet don't have 40 years to 16


### mess around. For the sake of my grandchildren, 17


### and all of our children and grandchildren, the 18


### EPA has got to get this one right. We have to 19


### get this one right this time. 20


### Thank you. 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Blanton. 22

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### Are there any questions for Mrs. Blanton? 1


### Beverly? 2


### Mrs. Blanton, could you please sit tight? 3



### MS. BLANTON: Yes. 4


### MS. BANISTER: I was particularly 5


### interested in your statement with regard to 6


### utilizing outdated and faulty

-- outdated 7


### information and faulty science. 8



### MS. BLANTON: Y es. 9


### MS. BANISTER: And so, if you have 10


### additional information in that regard, please 11


### share it with us during this public comment 12


### period. We would like to see. We want to make 13


### sure that we are using the most accurate data to 14



### inform decision

- making. So w e would invite 15


### additional information if you have that. 16


### MS. BLANTON: I'll make sure to get that 17


### to you. Thank you. 18


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 19


### Daryl, any questions? 20


### [No audible response.] 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for your 22

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### testimony. 1



### MS. BLANTON: T hank you. 2


### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like to 3


### invite Leslie Stampler and Scott Gladberry to the 4


### podium. 5


### [Pause.] 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Leslie Stampler, Scott 7


### Gladberry? Okay. 8



### [Pause.] 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Mary Anne Hitt and Janice 10



### Nolen? 11


### [Pause.] 12



### MR. THOMPSON : Mary Anne Hitt and Janice 13



### Nolen? 14


### [Pause.] 15


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. 16


### [Pause.] 17


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, Mrs. Nolen. 18


### MS. NOLEN: Good morning. Thank you. I 19



### am Janice Nolen. That's J

- a

- n

- i

- c

- e N

- o

- l

- e

- n. 20


### I'm Assistant Vice President for National Policy 21


### for the American Lung Association. 22

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### I appreciate the opportunity to provide 1


### comments today that are a brief summary on a few 2


### topics. We will submit more detailed comments in 3


### writing. 4


### The American Lung Association strongly 5


### supports EPA's commitment to reduc ing carbon 6


### pollution from existing electricity generation to 7


### protect human health. The Clean Power Plan 8


### provides a flexible partnership that enables 9


### states to reduce carbon pollution coming from 10


### existing electricity sources within each state, 11



### and at the s ame time reduce other life

12


### threatening pollutants. 13


### Climate change threatens human health. 14


### In May, the National Climate Assessment provided 15


### only the latest analysis to report the risks from 16


### rising temperatures, increased air pollution, 17


### drought, wildfires, and extreme weather events. 18


### But many citizens have assumed these 19



### threats were off sometime in the distant future. 20


### The National Climate Assessment ripped up that 21


### rationalization, spelling out clear evidence that 22

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### the U.S. has suffered the damage from changi ng 1



### climate for some time. 2


### Cleaning up carbon pollution is essential 3


### to fighting those damages and will help public 4


### health immediately. Steps to reduce carbon 5


### pollution will cut emissions of other toxic air 6


### pollutants, including nitrogen oxides, sulfur 7



### dio xide, and mercury. 8


### These pollutants are harmful in and of 9


### themselves. Nitrogen oxides irritate the lungs, 10


### trigger asthma, and increases the risk of 11


### infection. Sulfur dioxide triggers asthma 12


### attacks and increases the risk of hospitalization 13


### and emergency room visits. 14


### Not only do these pollutants harm health 15


### directly, but they are also the precursors to 16


### ozone and particulate matter, the most widespread 17


### and among the most dangerous air pollutants. 18


### Cutting carbon pollution will cut these, too. 19



### For millions o f people, the immediate 20


### impact of the Clean Power Plan will come from the 21


### reduction of ozone and particulate matter. Ozone 22

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### and particulate matter pollution cause difficulty 1


### breathing, asthma attacks, and premature deaths 2



### and have been linked to low birth weight in 3



### newborns. 4



### Particulate matter causes heart attack 5


### and strokes, and we now know that particulate 6


### matter causes lung cancer. Particulate matter 7


### may also increase the risk of infant mortality. 8


### To adequately protect public health, we 9


### need greater red uctions in carbon pollution and 10


### in the other pollutants than what EPA has 11


### outlined in this proposal. We urge EPA to 12


### strengthen the plan and therefore the proposed 13


### targets for the states. Stronger targets will 14


### provide greater immediate and long

- term publi c 15



### health benefits. 16



### EPA needs to ensure that the final 17


### guidelines will provide critical relief for 18


### people who live near the power plants and who 19


### have suffered from these pollutants for decades. 20



### The communities are often lower in income and 21


### higher in popula tions with existing lung disease 22

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### and other chronic diseases. They need these 1


### reductions to come from the smokestacks nearby. 2


### The Lung Association urges EPA to shorten 3


### the time for putting these measures in place, but 4


### does not support setting weaker standa rds to 5


### accommodate that shorter time frame. Five years 6


### would be reasonable and provide more time to 7


### implement than other large measures adopted by 8


### EPA in the past, including the NOx SIP Call. 9


### The Lung Association is concerned about 10



### the inclusion of biomas s as an acceptable 11


### alternative energy source. The Lung Association 12


### does not support biomass combustion for 13


### electricity production, a category that includes 14


### wood, wood products, agricultural residues, or 15


### forest wastes; and potentially highly toxic

- feed 16



### sto cks, such as construction and demolition 17



### wastes. The biomass's combusted state

- of

- the

- art 18


### pollution controls must be required. 19


### We appreciate EPA's commitment to 20


### quantifiable, non

- duplicative, permanent, 21


### verifiable, and enforceable state plans. Those 22

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### test s are not easy for the states to meet, nor 1



### for EPA to enforce. EPA must be clear that the 2


### final standards must be enforceable, not just by 3


### EPA, but by citizens, including groups like the 4


### American Lung Association. 5


### State plans should also include 6



### enforceab le provisions for those who the states 7


### have determined will implement these commitments. 8



### States must demonstrate their commitment to 9


### adequate resources and authority to meet these 10


### goals. EPA must clearly spell out the timing and 11


### process to enforce a fede ral plan for states that 12


### fail to meet the requirements. 13


### Thank you. 14


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 15


### Are there any questions for Mrs. Nolen? 16


### Beverly? 17


### Daryl? 18


### [No audible response.] 19


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for your 20


### testimony. 21


### MS. NOLEN: Thank you very much

. 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 1


### [Pause.] 2


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, I'd 3


### like to invite Lisa Rayner and Scott Segal to 4


### please come forward. 5


### [Pause.] 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Two people who were just 7


### called aren't here. And Scott Gladberry will be 8



### here later. Is there any way they can have a 9



### chance later? 10


### [Inaudible conversation.] 11


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 12


### Good morning. 13


### MS. RAYNER: Good morning. 14


### [Pause.] 15



### MR. SEGAL: Just one second more. 16


### MR. THOMPSON: Take your time, man. Nice 17


### and dapper now. 18



### Good mornin g to the both of you. 19


### [Chorus of "Good morning."] 20


### MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for coming. 21


### We'll start with Mrs. Rayner. Could you 22

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### say your name and spell it for the court 1


### reporter, please? 2


### MS. RAYNER: Sure. It's Lisa Rayner, R

3



### a

- y

- n

- e

- r. And I'm honor ed to come today before 4


### the EPA. Thank you for having me. 5


### I'm here to share my story on behalf of 6



### all mothers who have lost or have come close to 7


### losing a child due to asthma. I'm one of the 8


### lucky ones because my daughter Caroline survived. 9


### Our journey began just as she turned 17. 10


### There was nothing alarming, just a 11


### lethargic teenager and a mother's intuition. 12


### This nagging feeling turned into a trip to the 13


### doctor, followed by an ambulance ride to a local 14


### hospital where, after five hours of trying to get 15


### her oxygen level up, I was given the choice of 16


### taking her home or transferring her to the 17


### Children's Hospital. You see, because she was 18


### 17, they couldn't do anything else for her. 19



### So I had Caroline transferred to 20



### Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. We arri ved at 21


### Egleston just before midnight, where I discovered 22

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### her oxygen level was 73. The staff worked on 1



### Caroline for three

- and

- a

- half hours, pumping her 2


### lungs full of oxygen and albuterol until she was 3


### stabilized enough to send her to the ICU. 4



### Exhausted as I was

-- and I apologize. 5


### It's still painful. 6


### MR. THOMPSON: That's okay. Take your 7



### time. 8



### [Pause.] 9


### MS. RAYNER: Exhausted as I was, I 10


### anxiously awaited the doctor's arrival that next 11


### morning, not having slept for 24 hours myself. 12


### She checked out my daug hter, then looked at me 13


### and said, "She's not out of the woods yet." 14


### My first thought was, "We're in the 15


### woods?" I was naive. But then I looked around, 16


### and I saw the IV in her arm, the oxygen machine 17


### over her mouth, forcing pure air into her lungs. 18



### And I saw the Code Blue instructions posted by 19


### her bed. And for the first time, I realized that 20


### she could actually die. 21


### But like I said, we were lucky. After 22

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### four days in ICU, she was transferred to a 1


### regular room on a regular floor. But her attack 2


### was anyth ing but regular. It was severe. And it 3


### was unique because she survived it. 4



### We had several follow

- up visits to Emory

5


### Children's Center with Dr. Anne Fitzpatrick, who 6


### developed an asthma action plan. We learned that 7


### there are three zones: green, which me ant doing 8


### well on the three daily asthma medications she 9


### was required to take; yellow, which meant her 10


### condition was getting worse and we had to add to 11



### her routine the rescue albuterol inhaler; and 12


### red, which was the medical alert involving 13


### another trip to the ER. 14


### Ironically, I remember when Caroline was 15


### 12 and she came home from school after learning 16


### about carbon footprints from a Captain Planet 17


### exercise she had at school. She came home, and 18


### she turned off all the lights in the house, and 19


### she said, "If ev eryone would just take a moment 20


### to care, maybe we could all make a difference." 21


### Now, she's 21. And she has made a 22

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### difference in how I view carbon pollution and the 1


### effects it has on our children and everyday 2


### lives. So I support the Clean Power Plan, and I 3


### urge everyone to ask yourselves, "What does your 4


### carbon footprint say about your legacy?" 5


### Thank you. 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Rayner, on 7


### behalf of the Agency and on behalf of Caroline. 8


### Thank you for your testimony. 9


### MS. RAYNER: Thank you. 10



### MR. THOM PSON: Mr. Segal? 11


### MR. SEGAL: Sure. Thanks. My name is 12


### Scott Segal. I'm Director of the Electric 13


### Reliability Coordinating Council. 14



### ERCC is a broad

- based coalition of energy 15


### companies that works to ensure the consumers 16



### across the United States continue t o have access 17


### to reliable, affordable, and environmentally 18


### responsible power, including providing power to 19



### millions of consumers across the Southeast. 20


### Climate change policy is complicated. It 21


### involves difficult choices, careful balancing of 22

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### costs, risks, and benefits. And it must take 1



### into account the international nature of carbon 2



### emissions. 3


### However, to establish a nationwide energy 4


### and electricity policy through EPA regulations is 5


### probably not the proper way to engage this 6


### complicated policy debate. ER CC shares the 7


### concerns about EPA's proposals and shares 8


### concerns about the health impacts of conventional 9


### air pollutants as well that have been raised by 10


### many states, energy companies, people testifying 11


### here today, small businesses, manufacturers, 12


### legal ex perts, and other individuals. 13


### This proposal is an unprecedented use of 14



### about 300 words in the Clean Air Act that could 15


### eventually threaten the reliability of our 16


### country's electric supply and result in 17


### significantly higher costs, without appreciable 18



### benefi ts. 19


### The reliability risks created by the 20


### proposal are significant and need to be carefully 21


### analyzed prior to the adoption of climate change 22

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### policies. When electricity is unreliable, 1


### vulnerable populations can face life

- threatening 2



### conditions as a result o f heat or cold, and the 3


### basic functioning of the economy is imperiled. 4


### In fact, while we've been testifying here 5


### today, members of the Federal Energy Regulatory 6


### Commission, which is the nation's reliability 7


### regulatory body, have been testifying before 8



### Cong ress. Two of the members of the commission 9


### have been very clear

-- in fact, all of the 10



### members of the commission have been clear that 11


### they were not personally consulted by EPA over 12


### the course of the construction of the proposal. 13


### And I find that troubling

. 14



### Our fear is that without sufficient 15


### generating facilities, another polar vortex or 16


### heat wave may expose these vulnerabilities and 17


### subject citizens and businesses to energy 18


### shortages and price shocks. 19


### EPA has attempted to downplay the cost 20



### concerns associ ated with the rule by promising 21


### that households will save money by encouraging 22

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### them to use electricity, but that's

-- use less 1


### electricity, I should say. But that's cold 2



### comfort. 3


### Knowing that the government is trying to 4


### make you use less electricity will do nothing to 5


### help people on fixed incomes who have to run 6


### their air conditioner longer during a heat wave 7


### or heat during a cold snap, because the promise 8


### of greater efficiency or lower cost in the next 9


### decade will not pay the bills that are due at the 10



### end of the month. 11


### I have heard, including from my neighbor 12


### right here, about very, very troubling asthma 13


### conditions. I've had family and friends that 14



### have suffered from it. I've even suffered from 15


### it myself from time to time. And I'm completely 16


### sympathetic to the stories that I've heard. 17



### But the fact is that carbon is not a 18


### precursor for asthma. This rule is supposed to 19



### be a carbon rule. The fact is that EPA admits 20


### that conventional air pollution, which is the 21


### precursor for asthma, has been in decline for 22

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### years, and that the agency has adopted a number 1


### of recent rules to address the very sort of 2



### emissions

-- particulate matter

-- it now claims 3


### to be reducing with the carbon rule. 4


### In fact, through those other rules, it 5


### has established a program that is prot ective of 6



### human health in the environment with a sufficient 7


### margin of safety

-- and this is the legal test

-- 8


### for susceptible subpopulations like older 9


### Americans or younger Americans that are 10


### particularly susceptible to asthma. 11


### Put another way, the agency continues to 12


### pile on new regulatory costs, but claim the same 13


### benefits it has used to justify other costly 14



### rules. This is called double

- accounting and 15



### should not be the basis for a carbon rule. 16


### Carbon emissions are a global issue. 17


### Indeed, U.S. carbon emi ssions have been stable or 18


### declined over the last decade. Georgia 19


### greenhouse gas emissions have fallen by 33 20


### percent between 2005 and 2012. By contrast, 21



### emissions from China have increased over 170 22

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### percent, India over 95 percent. 1


### Therefore, climate polic y requires a 2


### comprehensive approach incorporating coordinated 3


### legislation, international diplomacy, and a 4


### thorough, deliberative process. However, this 5


### proposal is risky and expensive, will do nothing 6


### to address the global nature of carbon emissions. 7



### EPA 's proposal comes with real risks for 8


### health and economic wellbeing of our country, and 9


### the proposal shouldn't be finalized as currently 10



### drafted. 11


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for your 12


### testimony, Mr. Segal and Mrs. Rayner. 13


### Are there any questions for eit her of 14



### them? 15


### MS. BANISTER: I'd like for you to 16


### clarify just briefly on

-- you made a statement 17


### that the reliability issue is very significant. 18



### MR. SEGAL: Um

- hm. 19


### MS. BANISTER: So, could you just expand 20


### just a little bit on that? 21



### MR. SEGAL: Sure. Let me just cite some 22

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### statistics. I'm sure folks in the room and 1


### elsewhere remember the matter of the polar vortex 2


### of just last winter. And in fact, there have 3


### been recent reports by proponents of global 4


### warming legislation and regulation that indicate 5



### those t ype of conditions are more likely to 6


### happen in the future. 7


### During the polar vortex, 89 percent of 8



### the coal

- generating facilities that were slated 9


### to be closed under the Mercury and Air Toxics 10



### rule had to run full

- out in order to maintain 11


### reliability. Now, that's an extreme stress on 12


### the system. But I don't think we can rule out 13


### stresses on the system that will occur in the 14



### future. 15


### The downside consequences of losing 16


### reliable power, particularly during a severe 17


### weather event, are tremendous, particularly f or 18


### protection of public health. It's not

-- it's 19


### not a matter of industry profits. It's not a 20


### matter of what the shareholders say. It's a 21


### matter of the solemn obligation the power 22

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### provider has to provide reliable and affordable 1


### power to households. 2



### [Pau se.] 3


### MS. BANISTER: I was wondering if you 4


### could expand upon the statement regarding the 5



### costs and the double

- accounting of benefits. 6


### MR. SEGAL: Oh, yeah. I'm happy to do 7



### that. 8


### We have a national ambient air quality 9


### standard for particulate matter. The scientific 10


### basis of that standard, which allows a broad 11


### variety of mechanisms to address, is protection 12


### with an adequate margin of safety for susceptible 13


### subpopulations. 14



### Just last

-- well, I guess it was two 15


### years ago now, when MAT's was being finalized, 16


### the Mercury and Air Toxics rule, which was an air 17



### toxics rule

-- again, not an asthma rule

-- the 18



### administration claimed

-- or I should say the EPA 19



### claimed health benefits associated with 20


### particulate

- matter reduction below the level at 21



### which science has de termined adequate protection 22

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### for susceptible subpopulations. 1


### Now, you cannot keep claiming the same 2


### benefits over and over again. Either the MAT's 3


### rule achieved those benefits, and therefore that 4


### adequate protection has been achieved. And 5



### therefore the s ame claim, without any adjustment 6


### being made by the EPA, cannot be made again in 7



### defense of the carbon rules. 8


### Look. I'm using a lot of fancy words 9


### here. But let me just be real crystal clear 10


### about it. The rule doesn't reduce global 11


### warming. 12



### Janet McCabe , the Assistant Administrator 13


### for Air, was in front of the House Energy and 14


### Commerce Committee last week, two weeks ago, 15


### actually, and was asked the question, "There are 16


### 20 indicators of global warming. Which of these 17


### are actually reduced by your rule?" 18



### A nd she said climate science doesn't work 19


### that way. We can make no assurances that there 20


### will be any reductions, at least of the 20 21



### indicators

-- 22 indicators, I think it is. 22

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### So then you have to cast about and say, 1


### if the rule costs billions of dollars, what are 2


### we doing it for? Leadership in an international 3


### community? Maybe. But there's no data, no 4



### evidence that indicates that other countries will 5


### follow this path. So we're left with reduction 6


### of particulate matter, which is precursor for 7



### asthma. 8



### Bu t if we've already reduced particulate 9


### matter below the level where it's supposed to be 10


### a trigger for asthma, where are we? Are we left 11


### with a rule that is significantly costly, but has 12


### no benefit? And I'm afraid, in the name of 13


### "doing something"

-- and quote

- unquote

-- "on 14


### global warming," we're producing a rule that's 15


### very expensive, but doesn't produce benefits. 16


### [Pause.] 17


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, Mrs. Rayner 18


### and Mr. Segal, thank you very much for your 19


### testimony. 20


### [Chorus of "Thank you."] 21



### MR. THOMPSON : At this time, I'd like to 22

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### invite John Powell and Attica Scott. 1



### MS. SCOTT: Attica. 2


### MR. THOMPSON: Attica, thank you. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning to the both 5


### of you. 6


### MS. SCOTT: Good morning. 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, Mr. 8


### Powell, could you state and spell your name for 9


### the court reporter, and then begin your 10


### testimony, sir? 11


### MR. POWELL: Yes, I can. Thank you. 12


### John, J

- o

- h

- n, Powell, P

- o

- w

- e

- l

- l. 13


### Good afternoon. Again, my name is John 14


### Powell. I want to thank you for the opportunity 15



### to present on behalf of the City of Tallahassee, 16


### Florida, at this EPA public hearing on the 17


### recently proposed greenhouse gas regulations. 18


### The City of Tallahassee is a full

- service 19


### municipality providing a wide variety of 20


### essential services to the region, incl uding, but 21


### not limited to, police, fire, water, wastewater, 22

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### solid waste, and electricity. 1


### Our electrical utility is a 750

- megawatt 2


### system that serves over 115,000 customers. As a 3


### local government and a utility provider, 4


### Tallahassee is committed to providi ng clean, 5


### reliable, and cost

- effective service to its 6



### customers. 7


### In reviewing the building blocks 8


### identified in the proposed rule, Tallahassee has 9


### been an early adopter of these building blocks. 10


### As a result of these actions, Tallahassee has 11



### reduced its ca rbon emissions by 42 percent from 12


### 1990, down to just 960 pounds per megawatt hour, 13


### while simultaneously experiencing a 41 percent 14



### increase in customer demand. 15


### Some examples of Tallahassee's early 16


### actions include eliminating the use of coal as a 17


### firm power supply resource in 2000; modernizing 18


### the city's generation fleet to become one of the 19


### cleanest, most modern, and efficient electric

20


### generating systems in the state; by retiring 21


### seven older generating units and replacing them 22

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### with state

- of

- the

- art high

- effi ciency simple

1


### cycle and combined

- cycle units. 2



### This action alone has come at a cost of 3


### over $300 million to the city and represents over 4


### 50 percent of the city's electric utility debt 5


### and 30 percent of the utility's total asset 6



### value. 7



### We've also instituted an aggressive 8



### demand

- side management and conservation program, 9


### targeted with deferring over 100 megawatts of 10


### capacity additions over 20 years. 11


### We've actively supported renewable

- energy 12


### projects, including solar, PV, and thermal. We 13


### operate one of only two hydroelectric generating 14



### facilities in the State of Florida. And we have 15


### expanded the overall city's sustainability 16


### program by creating a one

- of

- a

- kind green 17


### department focusing on environmental 18


### sustainability and conservation. 19



### As a result of these volun tary actions, 20


### Tallahassee has been recognized at the local, 21


### state, national, and even international level as 22

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### a leader in environmental stewardship, including 1


### recognition by the White House in 2012. 2


### Tallahassee has truly established itself as a 3



### model to fo llow for being one of the greenest 4


### cities in Florida and in EPA Region 4. 5


### And as I noted earlier, Tallahassee has 6


### lowered its carbon intensity to 960 pounds per 7


### megawatt hour. This rate represents award

8


### winning early reductions, which is approximately 9



### 20 percent lower than the current state average 10



### for Florida. 11


### Based on EPA's goal of a 30 percent 12


### reduction, logic would suggest that the city 13


### would be very close to meeting the target. 14


### However, it still remains over 28 percent greater 15


### than the EPA's proposed standard for Florida. As 16



### one of the cleanest in the state and still 17


### needing a nearly 30 percent reduction just to 18


### meet the standard, it appears that the resulting 19


### math or methodology does not appear to match the 20


### stated goal. 21


### Again, utilizing the cleanest

- burning 22

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### fossil fuel available, operating one of the most 1



### modern electric

- generating fleets, supporting 2


### renewable energy projects, undertaking aggressive 3


### sustainability and energy conservation efforts

-- 4


### finding an additional 28 percent reduction at the 5



### Ci ty of Tallahassee is very difficult to 6


### identify, much less achieve. 7


### So, for these reasons, the city has 8


### concerns about its ability to meet the limits in 9


### this proposed rule. And more specifically, the 10


### City of Tallahassee is respectfully requesting 11



### that the EPA reevaluate the impact of how to 12



### achieve this standard in each state and work with 13



### those affected utilities. 14


### Help Tallahassee identify specific ways 15


### for us to meet the proposed rule without overly 16


### burdening taxpayers and utility customers; 17


### provide mean ingful credits for those utilities, 18


### like Tallahassee, with voluntary early reductions 19


### and demonstrated conservation projects; and 20


### identify how the rule will continue to allow for 21


### economic growth and development within each 22

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### specific community. 1



### We would welc ome the opportunity to 2


### discuss with EPA these and other thoughts on 3



### fine

- tuning a rule to meet the stated goal of a 4


### 30 percent reduction. 5


### Thank you. 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Powell. 7


### MR. POWELL: Thank you. 8



### MR. THOMPSON: Mrs. Scott. 9



### MS. SCOTT: Good m orning. I am Attica 10



### Scott, A

- t

- t

- i

- c

- a S

- c

- o

- t

- t. And I am a 11


### councilwoman in Louisville, Kentucky, serving 12


### District 1. And I am deeply concerned about the 13


### health of my community. 14


### District 1 has 19 chemical plants along 15


### what is most commonly referred to as the 16



### "Rubbertown Corridor." District 1 is also home 17


### to the Louisville Gas and Electric Company's Cane 18



### Run Road coal

- fired power plant. 19


### Because of that plant, I never want to 20


### become numb to the grandfather who emails me on a 21


### Saturday or Sunday afternoon that his grandkids 22

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### cannot go outside and play because of the coal 1


### ash that is flying around their neighborhood. 2



### I never want to become numb to the father 3


### whose huge red

- and

- white backyard umbrella is now 4


### red and gray because of the coal ash that has 5



### settle d on that umbrella. 6


### I care about the health of our community. 7


### On a nearly weekly basis, I receive emails, 8


### videos, phone calls, Facebook messages, and meet 9


### personally with people who are suffering every 10


### day from the fly ash that comes off of what we 11



### call "Coal Ash Mountain" on Cane Run Road and 12


### seeps into people's homes, settles on their cars, 13


### settles in their lungs and throats, and pierces 14


### their eyes. 15


### Kentuckians are literally dying for a 16


### strong carbon pollution rule. It is a matter of 17


### public health, an d it should be a public safety 18


### priority. When a constituent, or should I say a 19


### neighbor, contacts me and sends me a video of ash 20


### flying off of Coal Mountain into their 21


### neighborhood, I am outraged. 22

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### Now, for some of you who have the 1


### privilege of moving beca use you may live in this 2


### kind of an area, the rest of us who live in the 3


### real world cannot afford to just up and move. 4


### And that's what a mother was recently told 5



### because of her three

- year

- old's upper respiratory 6


### diseases, that she should move because she is 7


### living near this Coal Ash Mountain. She cannot 8



### afford to do that. 9


### So, what are some solutions? We need an 10


### energy efficiency plan that, while an elusive 11


### concept in Kentucky, my hometown, the place that 12


### I love, an energy efficiency plan is much more 13



### str ategic and it must make good sense. 14


### You can also demand that power plants use 15


### the best available technology rather than just 16


### the basic industry standard. Why? Because our 17



### communities deserve the best. 18


### And I cannot speak for other states. But 19



### as a counci lwoman who serves on both the Labor 20


### and Economic Development Committee, and the 21


### Planning and Zoning Committee of Louisville Metro 22

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### Government, I can tell you that the threats that 1


### manufacturers will leave Kentucky if we no longer 2


### have cheap electricity brou ght to us by King Coal 3



### is a farce. 4


### Very rarely do corporate bullies pack up 5


### their toys and leave the sandbox simply because 6


### we expect them to be good corporate neighbors. 7


### As an elected official, I am committed to 8


### economic prosperity and the success of 9



### comm unities in our state. In other states, clean 10


### energy has proven to be an economic success 11


### story, and I would like to have that success 12


### story include a chapter on Kentucky. 13


### I care about my neighbors in Eastern 14


### Kentucky and urge you to push back against the 15



### war

- on

- coal rhetoric that heartless politicians 16


### use to divide and conquer communities. If there 17


### is indeed a war, it is being waged against the 18


### good people who call Eastern Kentucky home and 19


### who are sick and tired of having their waterways 20


### polluted. 21



### Think about this: When you have coal 22

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### that is extracted in Eastern Kentucky burned in 1


### Central Kentucky and disposed of in Western 2


### Kentucky, you have left our state totally 3


### vulnerable to environmental devastation, and we 4


### cannot afford to pay that price. 5


### I hope th at your new rules will spur a 6


### new economy that values clean air. Can you smell 7


### it? That values clean water. Can you taste it? 8


### That values healthy neighborhoods and a healthy 9


### nation. Can you even imagine it? 10


### In the words of activist Van Jones, "If 11



### we d o not get involved, we will end up with eco

12


### apartheid, a society with ecological haves and 13



### have

- nots. 14


### "Imagine a world in which wealthy people 15


### have clean air, fresh water, healthy food, and 16



### no

- cost energy, thanks to solar panels, organic 17


### agriculture, and g reen technology. Meanwhile, 18


### poor neighborhoods continue to choke in the fumes 19


### of last century's pollution

- based industries." 20


### Thank you. 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Scott. 22

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### Are there any questions for Mr. Powell or 1



### Mrs. Scott? 2


### Beverly? 3


### [No audible respon se.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you both for 5


### your testimony. Thank you very much. 6


### [Pause.] 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, we're 8


### going to take a short break and have everyone 9


### report back to the room at 11:30, promptly. 10


### Thank you. 11


### [Recess taken fro m 11:16 a.m. to 11:30 12


### a.m.] 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay, ladies and 14


### gentlemen, we're going to reconvene and get 15


### started. So if you could take a seat. 16


### And while folks are making their way to 17


### their seats, I'm going to ask or remind again 18


### that you please, please, pl ease silence your cell 19


### phones. Airplane mode, turn them off, however 20


### you want to manage that. But please, and thank 21


### you in advance for taking care of that for us. 22

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### All right. At this time, I'd like to ask 1


### Mary Anne Hitt and Gregory Meinweiser to please 2



### c ome forward for your testimony. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Hello again. 5


### MS. HITT: Thank you. Thank you very 6



### much. 7



### MR. THOMPSON: You're welcome. 8


### Good morning to the both of you. Okay. 9


### I'm starting with you, Mrs. Hitt. Could 10


### you pronounce and spell your n ame for the court 11


### reporter, and then begin your testimony? 12


### MS. HITT: All right. It's Mary Anne 13



### Hitt. That's M

- a

- r

- y A

- n

- n

- e H

- i

- t

- t. 14



### And I'm here on behalf of the Sierra Club 15


### and our 1.2 million members and supporters, to 16


### thank EPA for putting forward t his draft Clean 17


### Power Plan and for providing us with this 18


### opportunity to comment. 19


### Again, my name is Mary Anne Hitt, and I 20



### am the National Director of the Sierra Club's 21


### Beyond Coal Campaign. I've traveled here today 22

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### from my home in West Virginia by way of the Smoky 1


### Mountains in East Tennessee, where is where I 2


### grew up and where I dropped off my four

- year

- old 3


### with her grandparents so that I could be here 4


### today. 5



### I know that I am one of hundreds of 6


### people who has traveled to attend this hearing 7



### from near and f ar and who went to great lengths 8



### to be here. Some took time off from work. Some 9


### took time away from their families. Some piled 10



### their kids into a car or onto a bus. Some came 11


### from around the corner, and some came from 12


### hundreds of miles away. 13


### Why? Becau se we all understand that the 14


### Clean Power Plan is one of our last opportunities 15


### to give our kids a fighting chance at a safe and 16


### promising future. And we came here to be stand 17


### up and be counted, from Georgia, from West 18


### Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, 19


### North Carolina, Mississippi, and beyond. 20


### And in all the places that we're from, we 21


### understand as well as anyone that the money and 22

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### the political clout of big polluting industries 1


### can sometimes drown out the voices of the people. 2



### And so that's w hy we are here today, to speak for 3


### ourselves and to speak for our kids. 4


### Recent study in the prestigious journal 5


### Nature found that by 2050, if we don't reduce our 6


### carbon emissions, what are now our hottest years 7


### and hottest temperatures will become our cold est 8


### years and coldest temperatures. As one of the 9


### scientists told the New York Times, quote, "Go 10


### back in your life to think about the hottest, 11


### most traumatic event you have experienced. What 12


### we're saying is that very soon, that event is 13


### going to become the norm." 14



### In 2050

-- again, that's the year pegged 15


### in this study when we'll hit this point

-- my 16


### daughter Hazel, who is four, will be the same age 17


### that I am today, sitting here before you. This 18



### is not some far

- distant science fiction future. 19


### This is rig ht around the corner, and this is the 20


### world that we are going to live in and we are 21


### going to share with our kids unless we reduce our 22

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### carbon emissions. 1


### Once my daughter is an adult, it will be 2


### too late for her to really turn this around. So 3



### we are the las t generation of people who have the 4


### opportunity to turn the corner on climate 5


### disruption. We're the last ones. And the Clean 6


### Power Plan takes a big step towards tackling this 7


### challenge by taking a bite out of our biggest 8


### source of carbon pollution. 9



### The C lean Power Plan creates a strong 10



### framework that will enable states to chart their 11


### own course toward clean energy like wind, solar, 12


### and energy efficiency, by setting the goalposts 13


### and giving the charge to states to create their 14


### own plans to limit carbon pol lution. 15


### We know that many states, including 16


### Georgia, are well on their way. And that's 17


### because communities around the U.S., led by 18



### grass

- roots activists, have secured the 19


### retirement of 170 existing coal plants while 20


### powering their states with record amoun ts of 21


### renewable energy and at prices cheaper than 22

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### fossil fuels. 1


### The Sierra Club is going to be working 2


### with our partners and allies to strengthen the 3


### Clean Power Plan. With improvements, we will be 4


### recommending during the comment period

-- we 5



### believe the Clean Power Plan can reduce emissions 6


### by up to 40 percent from 2005 levels by 2020, 7


### which is what we believe is needed to safeguard 8



### our children's future. 9


### And we'll also be pushing to maximize 10


### renewable energy like wind and solar, and energy 11


### efficiency, an d not create incentives for natural 12


### gas and other polluting energy sources. 13


### And finally, the Sierra Club is working 14


### with partners to ensure the standard is just, 15



### that the most vulnerable communities have a seat 16


### at the table and are protected by the standa rds, 17



### and that sufficient resources are made available 18


### to help workers in affected communities make the 19


### transition to the clean energy economy. 20


### So once again, thank you for your 21


### commitment, your hard work, and for this 22

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### opportunity to comment. 1



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Hitt. 2


### Okay. 3


### MR. MEINSWEISER: Hi. My name is Gregory 4



### Meinweiser. G

- r

- e

- g

- o

- r

- y M

- e

- i

- n

- w

- e

- i

- s

- e

- r. 5


### I'm here, I'm a student from the University of 6


### Tennessee in Knoxville. I'm currently a senior 7


### in nuclear engineering. I'm just kind of here to 8


### help support the nuclear side with the EPA. 9


### As you know, I'm sure, nuclear produces 10


### no carbon emissions. It's a very clean way of 11


### producing base

- load energy. That's pretty much 12


### it, actually. I just wanted to let you know that 13


### I support reductio ns in carbon emissions and hope 14


### that you would take nuclear into account into 15


### these things. 16


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Meinweiser, 17



### and Mrs. Hitt. 18


### Are there questions for either of them? 19


### MS. BANISTER: No. Thank you. Thank 20



### you. 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both. 22

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### [Chorus of "Thank you."] 1


### MS. HITT: Can we talk while we're up 2


### here, or is that not allowed? 3


### [Laughter.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: It's your five minutes. 5


### [Laughter.] 6


### MR. THOMPSON: All right. At this time, 7


### I'd like to ask Remy Devoe and David Reynolds to 8


### ple ase come forward. 9


### [Pause.] 10


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 11


### Starting with Mr. Devoe, could you state 12


### and spell your name for the court reporter, and 13


### then you can begin your testimony? 14



### MR. DEVOE: My name's Remy Devoe. R

- e

- m

15



### y D

- e

- v

- o

- e. I am a st udent, as well, from the 16


### University of Tennessee. I'm with the American 17


### Nuclear Society. And we have a student chapter 18


### at UT where we're aware of policies like the 19



### EPA's Clean Power Plan. 20


### And we've looked through what's in the 21


### power plan, and we would like to make some 22

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### recommendations for sure. 1


### One thing is that I want to thank the EPA 2


### for making this plan, because CO2 emissions, we 3


### have to regulate them. We have ocean 4



### acidification. 5


### The global warming, it's a real thing. I 6


### mean, as an engineer, that' s something that we 7


### learn about, that you have CO2 in the atmosphere, 8


### and it absorbs heat. And it's just a fact. So 9


### anybody out there saying it's not real

-- it's 10



### real. 11


### So, thank you for even doing this. It's 12


### probably an uphill battle for the most part. 13


### But in terms of nuclear energy, like it's 14


### been said, it's clean, zero CO2 emissions, and 15


### it's a source of energy we've had for the last 40 16


### years or more. And it accounts for 20 percent of 17


### electricity we have today. I mean, you can think 18


### of 10 light bulb s we have in this room, 2 of them 19


### are lit up by a nuclear power plant. 20


### And we can thank the engineers who have 21


### come before and who have created this power, and 22

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### we should keep it around. 1


### The 6 percent that is noted in the EPA 2


### Clean Power Plan, that

-- they say it's because 3


### we have 6 percent at

- risk nuclear

-- 100 percent 4


### is at risk. All these power plants, they've been 5


### built since the '70s. That means they're going 6


### to shut down at least in the next 20 years. 7


### We can't just say, "Okay, we're going to 8


### give 6 percent for these nuclear power plants 9


### we've had for awhile and that are providing a 10


### base load of power." 11


### What will happen is we'll end up shutting 12


### them down because of economics or political 13


### pressure. And we'll end up replacing them with 14


### natural gas. An d what are we doing? We're 15


### adding CO2. So what I'm telling you is that this 16


### Clean Power Plan, it's going to increase CO2 17


### emissions if we do not do something about the way 18


### we're handling nuclear energy. 19


### What I would recommend, instead of making 20



### this such a complicated rule where you only look 21



### at fossil fuels and then add in a little bit of 22

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### renewable for the phase one, or energy 1


### efficiencies, and going from coal to natural gas 2



### combined

- cycle

-- you just look at the total CO2 3


### emissions per state and the mega watt hours 4


### produced in that state. And just look at that, 5


### and say, "Well, we want to keep the same level" 6


### and not look at just fossil fuels. 7


### Because if you look at the equation

-- I 8


### mean, I have somewhere over here

-- it's pretty 9


### much the equation that sa ys, "Oh, wait. You have 10


### to meet these goals by reducing either your 11


### emissions or increasing energy production from 12



### renewable and nuclear." 13


### Since you only give 6 percent to nuclear, 14


### that is a perverse incentive to say, okay, if we 15


### shut down a plant, we're only losing this like 16


### marginal percentage of its megawatt hours. And 17


### if we replace it with natural gas, then you're 18


### adding extra CO2, but you're adding more megawatt 19


### hours. And you could actually achieve your goal 20


### more easily by doing so, which would, in effect, 21



### increase CO2 emissions. 22

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### So this way you're looking at the carbon 1


### intensity could actually be used by states to, 2


### you know, meet their goals by shutting down clean 3


### power plants like nuclear and replacing it with 4


### natural gas. 5


### And that brings me to an other point. 6


### Natural gas, if you look at it over the past six 7


### years, its prices look like something like the 8


### stock market from the past six years. And do we 9


### really want to trust our electricity prices on 10


### something like that? 11


### So, natural gas, yes, it's ch eap and 12


### plentiful now. But how do we know it's going to 13


### be like that in the next 15 years when this plan 14


### is supposed to be met, that we're supposed to 15



### have our reductions met? 16


### So, I think we should really take a step 17


### back. We don't need 70 percent capaci ty factor 18


### for natural gas. It's been historically a 19


### peaking power that we use for when we need it. 20


### But like in the arctic cyclone, whatever 21


### it's called, we weren't able to get power to 22

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### these communities that needed it most. And with 1


### nuclear there, we ha d power. We did not have an 2


### issue with supplying places in the Northeast with 3


### nuclear energy. 4


### So I think we should really consider the 5


### way that this plan is being implemented. And 6



### I'll submit a formal comment with all of the 7


### things that I would like to s ee done and changed. 8


### But otherwise, you guys are doing great. 9


### Thank you so much for having me here. 10


### And go balls! 11


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Devoe. And 12


### you answered the question I was going to ask 13


### about submitting comments. 14


### All right. Mr. Reynolds. 15


### DR. REYNOLDS: Yeah, it's Dr. Reynolds. 16


### I'm a retired community pediatrician and 17


### neonatologist and had a chance to work in the 18


### areas of public health for

-- you know, I wish 19


### you'd change it from "public health" to "the 20


### public's health." 21



### That's what it re ally is, and more of us 22

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### could become more interested in trying to get 1


### something done in that whole big area, which 2


### ya'll are certainly doing in your livelihoods and 3


### being here today. It's critically important. 4


### It's hard to imagine anybody could not 5



### unders tand the importance of the dangerousness of 6


### air pollution. And of those elements, the one 7


### that's dangerous in the most is carbon dioxide 8


### and the global warming. Of course, methane as 9


### well. We've got to do something to reduce those 10


### injuries. 11



### And one of the important things is to 12


### teach the community that it's injurious. It's 13


### amazing to me in Birmingham, at least, how many 14


### people still don't really think about this issue 15


### as something that's important to them. It's 16


### like, it's so big, what can they possibl y do? 17


### Well, what we can all do and should do, 18


### of course, is teach this within our families, by 19


### example and by instruction to our children. 20


### It also should be done at the community 21


### level, in which we can get people motivated, 22

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### interested, learn and motivate d to try to get 1


### something done at the public level, because 2


### that's where most of this is taking place. 3


### And then finally at the governments, all 4


### the way from the cities up to the national

-- 5


### involves you people to think about how we can 6


### change those things in a positive way. 7


### Let's see. Let me turn the page here. 8



### [Pause.] 9


### DR. REYNOLDS: I'm sorry I have to write 10


### things down, but I still do after all these 11



### years. 12


### MR. THOMPSON: Oh, that's fine. 13



### DR. REYNOLDS: I have to have them in 14


### writing to be able to make them work well for me. 15


### Hold on just one second. 16


### He gave a great left

- brain talk. This is 17


### right

- brain exclusively because it has to come 18


### from the heart for us to get the job done. So I 19


### don't really have any data to present. You 20


### people know that data any way. 21



### But we must

-- let me tell you this about 22

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### children. Probably you all probably know it. 1


### But it's so true. That they are in such danger 2


### of air pollution of all the different kinds, 3


### especially the CO2 and global warming, because 4


### they are developing

-- their organs are 5


### developing. And the organs that get hurt at that 6


### time in developing oftentimes do not fully 7



### recover for the rest of their lives. 8


### They are outside a lot. And when they're 9


### outside, they're exercising. They're breathing a 10



### lot more. And w hen they're inside and resting, 11


### they breathe more air in. So children are at 12


### very great risk. And they have no real advocates 13


### to get the job done for them like adults do, who 14


### can move people with whatever it is. Money 15


### primarily does the moving. 16



### When we start assessing

-- it won't be 17


### long, we'll start assessing the injury from 18


### global warming, especially the gases that harm 19


### our lungs and our hearts. We must start with 20


### assessment, the smallest available administrative 21


### unit that we can get to to assess the health 22

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### there versus their surrounding areas, et cetera. 1


### That's so critically important. 2


### And being aware of the vulnerability 3


### factors, I know you folks know them. And 4


### probably most folks out here do, too. But it is 5


### advancing age, certainly is there, any sort of 6


### physical debility that you have. 7


### The most important by far is poverty. 8


### Nothing comes close to poverty as being important 9


### for getting, you know, injury here. And they 10


### have the least folks to speak for them, in 11


### general, too. And then air condition ing, lack 12


### thereof, all those things are important. 13


### Let's see. Finally, I want to close with 14


### this. Again, it's nearly all right

- brain, except 15


### the American Indians function so well in right

16


### brain, and left

- brain kind of conclusions about 17


### what they want to do in their circumstances with 18



### the earth. 19


### And another who might as well have been 20


### was Albert Einstein. They asked Albert one time, 21


### "What do you think of the environment? What does 22

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### that mean?" He said, "Anything that's not me is 1


### the environment." And by golly, if we could 2


### adopt that as our posture, to live that way, and 3


### then live on it in a daily existence in a way 4


### that could be kind and good for this earth, we 5


### could do ourselves remarkably better than 6


### currently. 7


### And the major way we can do that, in my 8



### o pinion

-- I'm not speaking for anybody except me 9



### here

-- is by getting away from monetary 10


### fixation. Till we do that, it's going to be very 11


### difficult for us to move in directions, 12


### especially in areas like this, if you're going to 13


### get things done the way we 'd like them to be 14



### done. 15


### The Native Americans apparently had some 16


### wonderful things to say about that when they made 17



### the statement that we don't inherit the land from 18



### our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. 19



### Amen to that. 20


### And I'd be delighted to answ er any 21


### questions that ya'll might have. I doubt if 22

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### you'd have very many. 1


### [Laughter.] 2


### DR. REYNOLDS: I'm delighted to be here. 3


### MR. THOMPSON: Well, first, thank you for 4


### your testimony, Dr. Reynolds. And before you go, 5


### could you state and spell your full n ame for the 6


### court reporter so we can get this on record? 7



### DR. REYNOLDS: D

- a

- v

- i

- d, David, R

- e

- y

- n

8



### o

- l

- d

- s, Reynolds, M.D. 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 10


### And with that, are there any questions 11


### for Dr. Reynolds or Mr. Devoe? 12


### Beverly? 13


### MS. BANISTER: I just have on e for you. 14



### MR. DEVOE: Sure. 15


### MS. BANISTER: In regards to, you were 16


### talking about the incentives for really, I guess, 17


### going further, with the nuclear option related to 18


### the building block. And so I would just 19


### encourage you to submit your comments and your 20



### recommendations. 21


### MR. DEVOE: Sure. It's a complex issue. 22

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### Yeah. 1



### MS. BANISTER: As it relates to 2


### incentives and as it relates to how we might 3


### further that particular building block. 4


### MR. DEVOE: Okay. Thank you. 5



### MR. THOMPSON: I concur. 6


### Well, thank you bot h for your testimony. 7


### Thank you very much. 8



### [Pause.] 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. I'd like to now 10


### invite Larry Warthen and John Castellaw to please 11



### come forward. 12


### [Pause.] 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 14


### Thank you for coming. 15


### Starting with Mr. Warthen. 16



### MR . WARTHEN: My name is Larry Warthen. 17



### That's L

- a

- r

- r

- y W

- a

- r

- t

- h

- e

- n. 18



### I would like to thank the EPA for 19


### allowing me this opportunity to speak in 20


### agreement of the proposed carbon rule. I'm 21


### President of FACE, the Fall

- line Alliance for a 22

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### Cleaner Environmen t. 1


### I'm a member and steward of Minton Spring 2


### AME Church. I'm a lifelong resident of 3


### Washington County, Warthen, Georgia. I have five 4


### grandchildren, two of which have asthma, which 5


### causes them to have to take breathing treatment 6



### from time to time. 7



### Power p lants account for 40 percent of 8


### the carbon pollution in the United States. Right 9


### now, we limit mercury, arsenic, lead, soot, and 10


### other dangerous polluters from power from coal

11


### burning power plants. Please let's do the same 12


### for carbon pollution, the key d river and climate 13


### disruption and a contributing factor for asthma 14


### and other respiratory illnesses. 15



### No child should have limited access to 16


### enjoying the great outdoors or just doing the 17


### things that normal kids do, without the help of 18


### an inhaler or breathing treatments. 19


### EPA, please protect my grandchildren, my 20


### family, my community. Protect America's air 21


### quality. As we move into this new millennium, I 22

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### ask you, the EPA, to do your part and make this 1


### United States of America a leader in reducing the 2



### amount of c arbon that pollute our skies every 3


### day, that contribute to global warming. 4


### The Clean Power Plan will prevent up to 5


### 150,000 asthma attacks and 6,600 premature deaths 6


### annually by 2030, while slashing the carbon 7


### pollution from power plants fueling climate 8



### cha nge. 9


### For climate change is real and will 10


### affect all of us in a negative way. There are no 11



### more 100

- year storms. They happen monthly and 12


### cause great devastation. 13


### Please help to do your part to make this 14


### world a better place for generations to come. I 15



### bro ught my grandchildren with me today so that, 16


### hopefully, by them hearing me, it will be an 17


### inspiration to them and to others that have 18



### children that suffer from asthma. 19


### Thank you. 20


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. And thank you, 21


### and what a remarkable example you'v e set for your 22

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### grandchildren. Thank you for your testimony. 1


### If you could please state your name and 2


### spell it for the court reporter, and begin your 3


### testimony. 4


### LT GEN CASTELLAW: Yes, sir. I'm John 5


### Castellaw, C

- a

- s

- t

- e

- l

- l

- a

- w. I'm a retired 6



### Lieutenant G eneral from the Marine Corps. 7


### Thank you for the opportunity to talk 8


### here today. I appreciate what you're doing in 9


### being here so that people like the gallant man 10



### next to me can make his comments from the heart. 11


### And I appreciate very much what you said. 12



### An d I'm here today because I am concerned 13


### with climate change's impact on our national 14


### security. And I think that the rule here

-- I'm 15


### not an expert on the specific regulatory matters, 16


### but we need to make meaningful efforts to reduce 17


### the footprint that caus es climate change. 18


### My more than three

- and

- a

- half decades as 19


### a marine taught me that we cannot wait to address 20


### looming threats until we have absolute certainty. 21


### A major part of my service was during the Bush 22

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### administration when I had the opportunity to hea r 1


### Vice President Cheney on several occasions. And 2


### in 2001, he made the statement, "If there is a 1 3


### percent chance that a terrorist will get a weapon 4


### of mass destruction, we should act." 5


### Today, 99 percent of the scientific 6


### papers say that global

-- that cl imate change is 7


### a threat. And so we should act. For too long, 8


### we have failed to address the challenges of 9


### climate change. But our armed forces have seen 10


### the risks and, responding to their sacred 11


### obligation to protect our citizens, are already 12


### acting to address the very real threats posed by 13


### climate change. 14


### The military understands that we must be 15


### ready to conduct missions in a rapidly changing 16


### operational environment, while we manage the new 17


### risks posed by climate change. 18



### The senior leaders of our armed forces 19


### increasingly realize the true nature of this 20


### threat, not because the military suddenly decided 21


### that we want to save the environment, but rather 22

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### because the military sees that climate change 1


### presents clear dangers to our national security, 2



### with three distinct challenges. 3


### The first challenge is that global

-- 4


### that climate change is a global threat 5


### multiplier. That means it will make already 6


### existing threats like political instability, 7


### ethnic tensions, food insecurity, or poverty 8


### worse and more dangero us. 9


### Specific threats to security vary around 10


### the world depending on both the climate and on 11


### the society. For example, in places like sub

12


### Saharan Africa or the Middle East, the problem is 13


### likely to be too little water. Already marginal 14


### agricultural land l ike the Sahel could become 15


### incapable of feeding the people living there, 16


### causing them to migrate, and then that migration 17


### come in conflict with other people that are 18


### already in those other areas. 19


### The effects of climate change around the 20



### world will cause re sources like food, water, and 21


### energy to become more scarce as the effects of 22

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### climate change worsen. States will seek to 1


### secure resources for their own populations at the 2


### expense of their neighbors. While conflict is 3


### not inevitable, it becomes increasingl y possible. 4


### I can remember being in the Middle East 5


### along the Jordan River, and I remember from my 6


### Sunday school days a picture of a wide Jordan 7


### River with people getting dunked in it. When I 8


### got to the Jordan River, you could walk across it 9


### without getti ng wet. And you think about the 10


### tensions that already exist in those areas. And 11


### when we have change in the weather patterns and 12


### rainfall, how it can aggravate the situation. 13


### This is not just the future we're talking 14


### about, but also the present. We all r emember the 15


### terrible typhoon that occurred in the Philippines 16


### and that the requirement for the George 17


### Washington battle group in the Third Marine 18


### Brigade to go down and give comfort to those that 19


### were in need, saving until the last. 20


### The second challenge is climate change 21


### will affect homeland security. We already have 22

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### seen the impact Sandy had and the requirements 1


### for our active duty and National Guard troops to 2


### respond in New York and New Jersey. 3


### Defense support to civil authority is a 4


### growing mission for our military, for our active 5


### duty troops provide logistic and humanitarian 6


### relief, as well as law enforcement support to 7


### civilian authorities. These types of operations 8


### are growing as extreme weather events increase. 9


### You don't have to go to the Arctic to see 10


### climate change occurring. As a farmer, I see it 11


### happening here in the South. And you can look at 12


### the pages of such magazines as the Progressive 13


### Farmer to see articles where they talk about how 14


### we need to develop seed that is drought resistant 15



### and at the same time moisture resistant, because 16


### during the same year you can have too much and 17



### too little rain. 18


### Also, temperatures

-- all these are 19


### causing us to try to develop ways in agriculture 20


### to deal with it. And it puts at hazard, 21


### particularly in our regi on, billions of dollars 22

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### and thousands of jobs that we need in the 1



### economic area of our rural communities. 2


### Third, climate change is a threat to our 3


### military bases at home and around the world. The 4


### United States military manages property in all 50 5



### states

-- $600 billion here in the states and 6


### around the world. And we need to make sure that, 7


### as the ocean levels rise, that we manage the 8


### risks associated with that, and at the same time 9


### reducing what's causing it. 10


### For those that question science, I would 11


### say th at reducing greenhouse gases while 12


### implementing measures to adapt to the effects of 13


### climate change is basic risk management. 14


### Military planners routinely operate under an 15


### uncertainty and make decisions based on 16


### incomplete information. 17


### It is important that we take immediate 18


### positive actions to reduce greenhouse gases as an 19


### important step in addressing the challenges of 20


### climate change. 21


### Thank you for the opportunity. 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely. Thank you for 1


### your testimony. 2


### Gentlemen, before you leave

-- 3



### Are there any questions? 4


### [No audible response.] 5


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you both very 6



### much. 7


### LT GEN CASTELLAW: And thank you all for 8


### the opportunity to be here. 9


### MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely. 10


### Okay. At this time, I'd like to invite 11


### Michael Harden and Lynn Rin genberg to please come 12



### forward. 13


### [Pause.] 14


### MR. THOMPSON: So, hello again. I'd like 15


### to get started with you, Mr. Harden. 16


### Could you pronounce and spell your name 17


### for the court reporter? 18


### MR. HARDEN: Sure. It's Michael Harden, 19



### M

- i

- c

- h

- a

- e

- l H

- a

- r

- d

- e

- n. 20



### I'd like to thank you all for the 21


### opportunity to speak today. My name is Michael 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Harden, and I am the State Director for the 1


### Georgia Chapter for Americans for Prosperity, the 2


### nation's largest free market advocacy group, with 3



### more than 2 million activists nat ionwide and more 4


### than 60,000 activists in Georgia. 5


### AFP is committed to promoting energy 6


### policies that provide affordability and 7


### reliability for all Americans. I'm here to talk 8


### about the controversial proposed Obama 9


### administration rule requiring states to reduce 10


### their carbon emissions by 30 percent of 2005 11



### levels. 12


### Although, overall, the reduction is 30 13


### percent by 2030, the EPA set unequal reductions 14


### across the states, with this misguided new 15


### mandate falling more heavily on some states who 16



### will be forced to comply with even more draconian 17



### limits. 18


### Our state will face one of the largest 19


### reductions in carbon emissions, 44 percent of 20


### 2012 levels, which will be a huge impact on 21


### Georgia businesses and working families in terms 22

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### of energy affordability, job creation, and 1


### economic growth. 2


### These new rules would require energy 3


### producers to buy expensive retrofitting equipment 4


### and pose expensive new fuel switching and

- or 5


### green energy mandates, or by shutting down plants 6


### entirely, the cost of which will inevitably pass 7



### on to energy consumers in the form of higher 8



### rates. 9


### Currently, Georgia has nine coal

- powered 10


### plants that generate one

- third of their 11


### electricity from coal. It ranks 14th among the 12



### states in terms of coal use. Coal and natural 13


### gas remain the most cost

- effect ive and reliable 14


### options for electricity generation in the state, 15


### and their widespread use helps contribute to 16


### Georgia's below

- average electricity prices. 17


### This is a pocketbook issue. Federal 18


### micromanaging of Georgia's electricity generation 19


### portfolio will invariably cause electricity 20


### prices to rise, and higher electricity bills are 21


### bad news for struggling Georgia families, and the 22

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### most vulnerable families will be the hardest hit. 1


### The median Georgia family already spends 2


### roughly $1,800 of their disposable i ncome on 3


### residential energy alone. With these 4


### regulations, costs will increase significantly, 5


### leaving Georgians with less money in their 6


### pockets for essentials such as health care and 7


### groceries. 8


### Even worse, higher energy prices 9


### disproportionately affect t hose who can least 10


### afford it, those who are struggling in this down 11


### economy. Those earning between 10 and 30,000 per 12


### year will, on average, spend almost 10 percent of 13


### their disposable income on residential energy 14



### needs. 15


### Because such a significant portion of 16


### Georgia electricity comes from coal, the EPA 17


### regulations would have an overwhelming negative 18


### impact on jobs in the Georgia economy, with 19


### ramifications reaching well beyond the 19,500 20


### employed in the utility sector. 21


### The relatively cheap energy prices hav e 22

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### been essential to growing the Georgia 1


### manufacturing industry. Companies such as 2


### Caterpillar, Shaw, and Mohawk industries have all 3


### expanded in recent years, bringing in more than 4


### 16,000 jobs and 1 billion in investments to 5


### Georgia. 6


### According to Roy Bowen of the Georgia 7


### Association of Manufacturers, this growth has 8


### been, quote, "driven by the advantage that we are 9


### seeing come to us in the terms of energy prices," 10


### unquote. This advantage currently held by 11


### Georgia would virtually disappear with these new 12



### EP A regulations, and with it billions of dollars 13


### in economic activity and thousands of Georgia 14


### jobs each year. 15


### More directly, forcing the closure of 16


### coal plants would have a significant impact on 17


### the communities in which they operate. 18


### One coal plant, in Coos a, a plant which 19


### would be forced to close under the new EPA rules, 20


### operates in Floyd County, where it is responsible 21


### for 10 percent of the local tax revenue. Closing 22

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### this plant would be devastating to the community, 1


### with an unemployment rate of 7.9 percen t and a 2


### poverty rate that is already 20 percent. 3


### These new rules would have a secondary 4


### impact on businesses elsewhere in the economy. 5


### Even if businesses' energy demands remain 6


### constant, the price to produce their goods and 7


### services will increase. Any in crease in business 8


### costs means fewer resources to hire new employees 9


### or expand their production. This leads to slower 10


### economic growth and fewer jobs, as valuable 11


### resources are diverted to pay the energy bill. 12


### The proposed EPA regulations on CO2 will 13



### have a devastating effect on the Georgia economy 14


### and its residents. Given the high cost to 15


### Georgians and America at large, AFE strongly 16


### supports preventing the implementation of these 17


### regulations. 18


### Thank you all for your time. 19


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 20


### testimony. 21


### Mrs. Ringenberg? 22

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### DR. RINGENBERG: Good afternoon. My name 1


### is Lynn, L

- y

- n

- n, last name Ringenberg, R

- i

- n

- g

2



### e

- n

- b

- e

- r

- g. I'm an Emeritus Professor of 3


### Pediatrics at the University of South Florida in 4


### Tampa. I'm also the President of the Florida 5


### chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility, 6



### and the President

- elect of the national chapter 7


### of PSR in Washington, D.C. 8


### For those that don't know, PSR is an 9


### organization of health professionals dealing with 10


### issues that pose the gravest threats to huma n 11


### health and survival. And those two, we feel, are 12


### climate change and nuclear weapons war. We 13



### shared the Nobel Peace Price in 1985 for our 14



### nuclear work. 15


### I want to thank the EPA for giving me the 16


### opportunity to speak this afternoon. I've 17


### practiced medici ne for close to 35 years in the 18


### Tampa Bay area. I'm also a retired military 19


### colonel, and so spent a significant amount of 20


### time in the military, as well. And I've really 21


### witnessed over this 35 years a worrisome decline 22

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### in the health of our children. 1



### Every day that I practice

-- and although 2


### I'm retired, I still practice and cover practices 3



### in town

-- I see children struggling to breathe 4


### due to asthma which is exacerbated by carbon 5


### pollution. And young children

-- and I mean 6


### young, nine months, eighteen mo nths

-- that are 7


### taking three or four different types of 8


### medication just to control their asthma symptoms. 9


### These kids are literally tethered to 10


### their nebulizers or breathing machines four to 11


### six or more times a day. We're still seeing 12


### entirely too many ch ildren, especially kids under 13


### the age of five, die from asthma. 14


### The quality of life of these children and 15


### their families is significantly impacted in a 16


### negative way by carbon pollution. You know, kids 17


### ought to be out running and playing and having 18



### fun. K ids deserve the right to have clean air to 19


### breathe, as we all do. 20


### I wear this white coat today to symbolize 21



### -- not that I just came from work

-- 22

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### [Laughter.] 1



### DR. RINGENBERG:

-- but to symbolize a 2


### profession that I believe has an obligation to 3


### speak out ag ainst those who damage public health. 4



### We need to be the voice for those who 5


### cannot speak for themselves. The fetus in utero 6


### growing to full term, infants, children, the 7


### elderly, those with disabilities, chronic health 8


### problems, and minority populations, t o include 9


### the homeless, who really receive the blunt of 10



### coal

- fired power plant pollution. 11


### There's really a toxic slew of air 12


### pollutants in coal smoke. But the major one 13


### causing so many adverse health problems like 14


### COPD, heart damage, asthma, et cetera, is carbon, 15


### which we all know is the key driver of climate 16


### change. 17


### Forty percent of the carbon pollution in 18



### the United States comes from coal

- fired power 19


### plants, many of these very dirty. Many of the 20


### ones of the 15 in Florida where I live are very 21



### old and di rty. 22

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### There is no such thing as clean coal. We 1


### should stop smoking coal. We should stop 2


### shipping coal. And we should just leave it in 3


### the ground. 4


### Climate change affects health by 5


### increasing temperatures, causing heat waves which 6


### can lead to dehydration, heat strokes, and death, 7


### especially in young children, those with chronic 8


### health problems, and the elderly. There have 9


### been tens of thousands of people in Russia, 10


### Europe, and the United States that have died from 11


### heat stroke in the last 10 years. 12



### As tempe ratures rise, more populations 13


### are exposed to disease

- bearing insects like Lyme 14


### disease, malaria; extreme weather events and 15


### water contamination; flooding; water

- borne 16


### disease; and an increase in wildfires causing 17


### smoke and particulate matter inhalation, w hich 18


### aggravates asthma and other pulmonary conditions, 19



### causes an increase in cardiac deaths and stroke. 20


### I want to add just very, very quickly

-- 21


### it wasn't in my regular comments because it just 22

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### came in last night. It was published in the last 1


### several days . It's a report from the National 2


### Academy of Science that I just downloaded last 3


### night late, that there are eight U.S. cities, and 4


### of those eight, two are in Florida

-- Tampa Bay, 5


### Tampa, and St. Pete, and Miami

-- that rank among 6


### the world's 20 top for po tential average annual 7


### losses from coastal flooding. 8


### And of those eight cities, Miami, New 9


### York, Newark, New Orleans, Tampa, Boston, 10


### Philadelphia, Virginia Beach, and Baltimore

-- so 11


### out of the 20 top in the world, we have eight of 12



### them. And with that flo oding is going to cause a 13


### lot, a lot of health issues. 14


### Again, food production is also vulnerable 15


### to climate change, with increasing drought and 16



### risk of famine and conflict of war. 17


### And in closing, I mean, everybody in this 18


### room is a mom or a dad, a grandpar ent, an aunt, 19


### an uncle, or at a minimum, you know a kid, right? 20


### A friend's kid, a colleague's kid, a neighbor's 21



### kid. And I think that we are all connected 22

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### heart

- to

- heart by our common humanity to care for 1



### the collective children. 2


### And we can leave no grea ter legacy to our 3


### children, our grandchildren, and the generations 4


### that follow than to leave a healthy carbon

5


### pollution

- free planet. 6


### It is imperative that we set the stage 7


### now for this lifesaving journey through 8


### implementing a strong Clean Power Plan that will 9


### protect public health and drive innovation in 10


### clean energy sources like solar, wind, 11


### efficiency, and will power the twenty

- first 12


### century and beyond, grow our economies, and 13


### create good jobs. 14


### Again, I thank the EPA for taking this 15


### bold step. And this is one of the most promising 16



### health

- protective climate proposals in years. 17


### Thank you. 18


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. 19


### Ringenberg. 20


### Are there any questions for Mr. Harden or 21


### Mrs. Ringenberg? 22

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### [No audible response.] 1


### MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, thank you 2



### both very much for your testimony. 3


### [Chorus of "Thank you."] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely. Thanks. 5


### [Pause.] 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, we're 7


### going to take a lunch break until one o'clock. 8


### Before you go, though, just so you know, I have 9


### up next here Lesli e Agron and Joe Reynolds. Are 10


### you guys going to be able to hang around until 11



### one o'clock? 12


### Okay. All right. Well, you're up next 13


### in Room B, okay, after lunch. 14


### All right. We'll reconvene here at 1:00 15


### p.m. Thank you very much. 16


### [Recess taken from 11:06 a. m. to 1:00 17


### p.m.] 18



### AFTERNOON SESSION 19



### PANEL NUMBER 2 20


### MS. KEMKER: All right. My name is Carol 21


### Kemker. I'm with EPA Region 4. I'm the Deputy 22

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### Air Division Director here for the Southeast. 1


### And I'm one of the chairs of today's public 2


### hearing. 3


### Thank you all fo r coming. 4


### Joining me on the panel this afternoon 5


### are Jeb Stenhouse. He's an Air Program Manager 6


### with our Headquarters Office of Air and 7


### Radiation, and is part of the Rural Writing Team. 8


### I'm also joined by Gregg Worley, who is 9


### an Air Program Manager here i n Region 4, who 10


### works on a number of the air quality issues for 11



### the Southeast with us. 12


### We are here today to listen to your 13


### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 14


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 15


### of these proposed rules on June 2nd of this year, 16



### 2014. 17


### Power plants are the largest source of 18


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 19


### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 20


### emissions. The first rule is EPA's proposed 21


### Clean Power Plan for existing power plants. This 22

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### proposal consists of two main parts: state

1


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 2


### power plants, and guidelines to help states 3


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 4


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 5


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 6


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 7


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 8


### their goals by 2030. 9


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 10



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 11


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule w ould 12


### set emission limits for two groups of power 13


### plants: those that make physical or operational 14


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 15


### achievable hourly rate of emissions; and those 16


### that replace components to such an extent that 17


### the new components exc eed 50 percent of the 18


### capital cost of an entirely new comparable 19


### facility. 20


### If you would like more details on either 21


### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 22

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### available near the registration desk. 1


### Today's hearing is one of four public 2


### hearings across t he country this week on the two 3


### proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 4


### in each of the hearings, and I'd like to thank 5


### you for taking time out of your day to join us 6


### and share your comments. 7


### We have a lot of people signed up to 8


### speak today, and we want to hear from all of 9


### them. So, before we get started, I'd like to go 10


### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 11


### that will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 12


### First, please be sure you have checked in 13


### at the registration desk even if you ar e not 14


### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 15


### speak online or by phone, but haven't told us 16


### that you're here, please step out to the 17


### registration desk and let the EPA staff know 18


### there at the registration desk that you have 19



### arrived. 20


### Second, if you are a speaker, you were 21


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 22

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### or Room B. This is Room B. Are you in the right 1


### room? If not, this is a good time to switch. 2


### All right. Here's how today's hearing 3


### will work. I will call speakers up in pairs. 4



### W hen your name is called, please come to the 5



### table at the front of the room. 6


### When I call on you to speak, please state 7


### your name, and spell it for the court reporter. 8



### Your comments will be transcribed and included in 9


### the record of comments on the propose d rule. 10


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 11


### give comments. We have a light to help you know 12


### how much time you have left to speak. When the 13


### light turns from green to yellow, that you means 14


### you have one minute remaining. When it turns 15


### red, that's a si gnal to wrap up your testimony. 16


### The light will flash red and beep when you have 17


### spoken for five minutes and it's time to stop. 18


### When you're finished speaking, please 19


### remain at the table until the person next to you 20


### has completed his or her testimony. 21



### We ar e here to listen to you today. 22

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### However, a panel member may ask you questions to 1


### clarify your comments. I will then call up the 2


### next pair of speakers, and so on. 3


### If you've brought a written copy of your 4


### testimony, please give that to the staff at the 5


### regi stration desk before you leave today. 6


### Because of the large number of people who 7


### have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 8


### everyone, we're going to have to strictly enforce 9



### the five

- minute limit. 10


### If you have additional comments you would 11



### like to make , you can submit them in writing. 12


### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as much 13


### consideration to comments we receive in writing 14


### as we do to comments we receive at public 15


### hearings like this one. So, if you have more 16


### that you would like to say, please subm it it. 17



### Your comments will be reviewed. 18


### There is still plenty of time to get 19


### written comments in, and there are comment cards 20


### available at the registration desk. Comments 21


### must be received by October 16th, 2014. 22

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### We will put any written comments 1



### submitted t oday in the official docket for the 2


### proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 3


### written comments in other ways are available at 4


### the materials table near the registration desk. 5


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 6


### tonight. And we've taken a lunch break, a nd we 7


### will take a dinner break so everyone can get 8


### something to eat and be fresh to hear your 9



### comments. The dinner break is scheduled for five 10


### o'clock. In addition, we may take occasional 11


### short breaks throughout the day as needed. We'll 12


### keep you posted as the day goes on. 13


### If you have any questions during the day, 14


### please see the staff at the registration desk, 15


### and someone will try to help you. 16


### Finally, I want to ask that each of you 17


### to please be respectful of everyone who speaks 18


### today. We have people wit h a wide variety of 19


### views in the audience, and we want to hear from 20


### all of you. So we can do that and to be fair to 21


### everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly. 22

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### Even applause can slow things down, and we want 1


### to hear from everyone who has signed up t o speak. 2


### So, thank you again for taking the time 3


### to share your comments on the EPA's proposed 4


### rules. Now let's get started. 5


### Our first speakers will be Daniel 6


### Tenpenny and Richard Hertzberg. 7


### [Pause.] 8


### MR. TENPENNY: Hello, everyone. My name 9


### is Daniel Tenpe nny. D

- a

- n

- i

- e

- l T

- e

- n

- p

- e

- n

- n

- y. 10


### And I am a student at the University of Tennessee 11


### in Knoxville and a senior representative in the 12


### student chapter of the American Nuclear Society. 13


### As a student at the University of 14


### Tennessee majoring in nuclear engineeri ng, I 15


### spent the last four years learning just how much 16


### of a benefit nuclear power is to both this 17


### country's utilities and its economy. I spent the 18


### last four years learning how safe the nuclear 19


### industry is and the regulations they have to go 20


### through to ope rate. 21


### I've learned that, in order to achieve 22

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### the cleanest, most efficient green energy, 1


### nuclear power is the only obtainable option. 2


### The Clean Air Act's goal is to reduce the 3


### pounds of CO2 produced for total megawatt 4


### produced

-- a goal of which I approve v ery 5


### thoroughly. 6


### However, when nuclear power is mentioned 7


### within the equation provided with the state 8


### emission rate post block 4 on page 18, to reach 9


### the reduced value, the nuclear power only 10


### receives 6 percent of its value, meaning that 11


### utility companies c an only include 6 percent of 12


### its nuclear power plants toward meeting its new 13



### reduced value from the EPA. 14


### This makes a statement that 94 percent of 15


### the current nuclear power is not important. But 16


### only the at

- risk facilities or the new facilities 17



### under cons truction are important. To put this in 18


### perspective, the two plants that Georgia is 19


### working on currently will receive no credit 20


### towards the EPA's plan to reduce carbon 21


### emissions, even though they are a zero

- carbon

22

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### producing electricity. 1


### Georgia has gone ab ove and beyond to 2


### create cleaner energy with these projects, and 3


### this method gives no incentive to consider the 4


### cleanest, no

- carbon

- emitting power source. 5


### A part of what I do in school as a 6


### nuclear engineering major is to manipulate and 7


### derive equations to achieve a desired value. So, 8


### let me tell you when I say that sometimes that's 9


### to see the lowest grade I can get

-- decent grade 10



### on the test

-- to get a good grade in the class. 11


### But, so believe me when I say that how 12


### this document is worded, given the mat h, will 13


### give utility companies an incentive to replace 14


### the nuclear plants with natural gas plants or 15



### other fossil

- fuel

- burning plants, thus raising 16


### the carbon emission, but lowering their pounds of 17


### CO2 per megawatt, based on this equation. 18


### But, in conclusi on, I suggest that the 19


### EPA amend their proposal to give incentives to 20


### keep or build nuclear power plants by giving them 21


### the full value they deserve, not only as a source 22

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### of reliable long

- term energy, but the main source 1



### of carbon

- free energy in this countr y. 2


### Thank you very much, and in true 3


### Tennessee fashion, go balls! 4


### MS. KEMKER: Do we have any questions? 5


### [No audible response.] 6


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 7


### Our other speaker? 8


### MR. HERTZBERG: Are you ready? Okay. 9



### MS. KEMKER: Yes. 10



### MR. HERTZBERG: Richard Hertzb erg, R

- i

- c

11



### h

- a

- r

- d H

- e

- r

- t

- z

- b

- e

- r

- g. 12


### Thank you for this opportunity to speak 13


### today. The editor in our Atlanta Journal

14



### Constitution claimed that the EPA carbon rule and 15


### purported benefits are, quote, "based on flawed 16


### science," end quote. 17


### That is an easy c laim to make because 18


### nearly all science has some flaw, some facet 19



### where we wish we knew more. But the writer's 20


### conclusions about the application of the carbon 21


### rule and its benefits are absurdly wrong. 22

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### Instead of countering those arguments, I 1



### want to add t o EPA's statements of why we need 2



### action now. 3


### I am a private consultant in 4


### biomathematics and an adjunct professor in 5


### environmental health in Emory University, where I 6



### teach environmental health risk assessment. One 7


### of my classroom goals is to involve rea l 8


### environmental scenarios with real populations. 9


### In so doing, we address cumulative risk. That's 10



### the risk from the combination of all the 11


### contaminants and stressors that we encounter, at 12



### the same time. 13


### Why is that important to the support of 14



### the carbon r ule? In the latest U.S. National 15


### Climate Assessment report, it says, quote, 16


### "Climate change is increasing the risks of heat 17


### stress, respiratory stress from poor air quality, 18


### and the spread of waterborne diseases." 19


### Elsewhere, it states, "heat waves are al so 20


### associated with increased hospital admissions for 21


### cardiovascular, kidney, and respiratory 22

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### disorders." 1


### EPA Administrator McCarthy, on EPA's 2


### website, says, "One in ten children have asthma." 3


### But in recent studies in some major cities, 4


### including the Oakla nd area and Detroit, they 5



### found about one in three children were on asthma 6



### medication

-- one in three. 7


### EPA estimates how many asthma attacks and 8


### premature deaths would be avoided by the required 9


### cuts in traditional air pollutants. Where EPA 10


### could go furth er when discussing the health 11


### benefits is to consider not just the separate 12


### risks, but the cumulative impact of all the 13


### stressors together. 14


### My research specialty is toxic 15


### interactions, synergy and antagonism among 16


### chemicals. Of most concern for public hea lth is 17


### synergy, where the combination of exposure is 18


### significantly more toxic than some of the 19


### individual exposures or risks would predict. 20


### So, yes, we have regulations on ozone, 21


### and on particulate matter, PM's, and on many 22

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### other contaminants in air. And we worry about 1


### effects of air pollution and heat waves on 2



### children. But our concerns should be much 3


### greater because of the combination effect of 4



### these stressors. 5


### Is there any such evidence? When 6


### evaluating health impacts of climate change, some 7



### studies e stimate the increase in ozone and its 8


### consequences on acute asthma attacks, or how many 9


### die from heat waves, or the impacts of 10


### particulate matter on several disease rates. 11



### I am concerned that the EPA's estimates 12



### of health benefits from the carbon rule are 13


### similarly based upon evaluations of each 14


### pollutant or condition by itself. That can and 15


### should change. 16


### Some very fine epidemiology studies over 17


### the past 10 years, here and in Europe, looked at 18


### the health consequences of air pollution in 19



### combination with h eat waves. Famous epidemiology 20


### studies over 50 years ago, such as those in 21


### cigarette smoke, controlled for those other 22

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### factors, so to identify the contribution from one 1


### pollutant of interest, such as cigarette smoke. 2


### But that single pollutant risk estimat e 3


### does not represent a real exposure. In welcome 4


### contrast, these recent studies looked at the 5


### composite exposure conditions, real exposures to 6


### ozones, PM's, and heat waves altogether. They 7


### found significantly increased risks from the 8



### combination for acut e asthma and for early 9


### mortality. 10


### But the situation gets worse. Another 11


### study in air pollution and asthma shows synergy 12


### with psychological stress from neighborhood 13


### violence. And where are our many regions with 14


### high neighborhood violence? Large cities. We 15


### have thus identified a highly vulnerable 16


### population and one of considerable size. 17



### The science of toxic interactions is 18


### complex, expensive, and difficult to quantify

-- 19


### one main reason why so few regulations 20


### incorporate interactions. While we know much 21


### about mechanisms for high temperatures enhancing 22

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### particulate matter toxicity, and for PM's 1


### enhancing ozone toxicity, we have not modeled the 2



### three

- way interaction nor the four

- way 3



### combination that includes stress. 4



### But these interaction effects have been 5



### do cumented and are already occurring to 6


### vulnerable populations, including the children 7


### and the elderly. We see these exacerbated 8


### effects in asthma visits at emergency rooms and 9


### in increased mortality. These are not minor 10


### annoyances, but serious health cond itions. 11


### So, should EPA delay inclusion of 12



### interactions because we do not have the 13



### mathematical dose

- response model? No. As stated 14


### in EPA's own guidance for chemical mixtures risk 15


### assessment, "Even when only subjective 16



### information exists on the combinatio n of effects, 17


### these joint effects must still be characterized 18


### to the extent possible and reflected in the risk 19



### assessment." 20


### In summary, EPA is doing precisely what 21


### is needed with its carbon rule, by acting now. 22

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### Do not wait until all the desired mechanisti c 1


### understanding and dose

- response modeling have 2


### been accomplished. The interaction evidence is 3


### strong. The health impacts are here today. So 4


### we need action today. 5


### Thank you for your attention. 6


### MS. KEMKER: I do have a clarifying 7


### question. You quoted s ome studies where reported 8


### ozone, PM, and heat wave studied the results of 9


### those combinations. Will you be providing in 10



### written comments the citation for those studies? 11


### MR. HERTZBERG: Yes, I will. 12


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 13



### MR. HERTZBERG: And I can include the 14


### PDF's in my email. 15


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 16


### MR. HERTZBERG: Yes. I would say that 17


### there's a project called Euroheat. H

- E

- A

- T is an 18


### acronym, actually. But it's a nice combined 19


### acronym of Euroheat that looked at several 20


### populations in Europe with that combination. 21


### That's a good place to start. 22

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### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 1


### Our next speakers will be Leslie Agron 2


### and Jacquelyn Carter. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MS. KEMKER: Sir, you may begin. Thank 5



### you. 6


### MR. AGRON: Leslie Agron, L

- e

- s

- l

- i

- e A

7



### g

- r

- o

- n. 8


### Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of 9


### the EPA. Thank you for taking my testimony. My 10


### name is Leslie Agron. I am from Oak Ridge, 11


### Tennessee. As the son of a Manhattan Project 12


### scientist, I was born and raised there. I grew 13


### up within walking distance of Appalachia. 14



### I am curre ntly a candidate for the 15


### Tennessee State Legislature. I have previously 16


### served on Oak Ridge's Environmental and Quality 17


### Advisory Board. I hold an Executive M.B.A. from 18



### the Cox School of Business at Southern Methodist 19


### University. Given that credential, t he thrust of 20


### my remarks will be about business and business 21



### climate. 22

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### I hold that, contrary to industry remarks 1


### that coal makes jobs, coal is not good business. 2


### To be clear, in a historical sense, coal was very 3


### important to the development of America in th e 4


### nineteenth and twentieth centuries. During those 5


### historical periods, coal very much enhanced the 6


### business climate of our country by supplying 7


### affordable energy when no other source of energy 8



### was available. 9


### In more recent times, however, even with 10


### the pe riodic improvements which have been made, 11


### continuing coal industry practices have led to 12


### conditions which tend to diminish the capacity 13


### for business in this vicinity. 14


### Specifically, Tennessee's largest 15


### industry is agriculture. The quality of our 16



### water has significant bearing on both the success 17


### of that and the overall health of the people of 18


### Tennessee. Mountaintop mining techniques, 19


### although somewhat modified from some of the bad 20


### practices in the past, still channel runoff into 21



### our watershed as a normal co nsequence of 22

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### disturbing the top layers to reach the seams of 1



### coal. 2


### While the coal industry will point to 3


### their changes in practices, these only followed a 4


### long public outcry, revised regulations, and 5


### enforcement measures, and then only brought 6


### compliance t o the letter of the law. 7


### The district I seek to represent is just 8


### a few miles from TVA's Kingston fossil plant. As 9


### you no doubt recall, in 2008, that was the scene 10


### of a tragic accident which caused a billion

11


### gallon spill of its stored coal ash slurry into 12


### the Clinch River, a tributary of the Tennessee 13


### River. This massive environmental discharge made 14


### the Exxon Valdez incident seem small by 15


### comparison. 16


### Storage requirements have been revised 17


### subsequently, and the public relations message is 18



### that this will no t recur. But beforehand, they 19


### would have told us that the ash was stored safely 20


### according to industry practices. 21



### The coal

- power industry will also tell us 22

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### that the cleanup process in the vicinity has been 1


### completed. This should not be taken to mean, 2



### howe ver, that all of the spilled ash has been 3



### removed from the environment and returned to 4


### contained storage. That is as impossible as 5


### returning an egg once broken to its former shell. 6


### Instead, the cleanup process has reached 7


### its planned end stage, where addi tional cleanup 8



### efforts would tend to disturb and release 9


### deposited coal ash rather than to remove the 10


### toxic material from an environment. It is eerily 11


### haunting to walk that vicinity years later and be 12


### able to literally smell the tragedy which 13



### occurred the re. 14



### Tennessee's third

- largest industry, and 15


### rapidly growing, is tourism. The district I seek 16


### to represent borders on I

- 75, the nation's 17


### busiest interstate highway. There are several 18


### proposals to greatly increase attractions and 19



### facilities to visitors in our area in the near 20



### future. 21


### I shudder to remember as a boy watching 22

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### strip mining scars spread across our beloved 1


### mountains. The memory of that ugliness lasts a 2


### lifetime. Such practices are simply not 3


### compatible with the larger visitor

- based economy 4



### Tenn essee is capable of enjoying. 5


### Again, the coal industry would tell us 6



### these mountains have been restored. "Restored" 7



### -- when they use this word, they may not mean 8


### quite what we mean when most of us use this word. 9


### I have a friend who restores antique cars as a 10


### hobby. When he is done, the cars are in mint 11



### condition. 12


### What is meant by "restored" in this case 13



### is that the holes have been filled in and there 14


### is something green growing on top. Where there 15


### once was a vital ecosystem, there is now all the 16



### vitali ty of a vacant lot. Generations will pass 17



### before nature is able to return these 18


### mountaintops to anything resembling the sort of 19


### complex ecosystem which once flourished there. 20


### So, if I marched you through a winding 21


### recount of the past ills of coal industr y 22

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### practices, or if I distinguished a pattern of 1


### behavior which can accurately predict their 2


### future performance, I submit the latter: They 3


### have not played well with others in the past, and 4


### they are here this week seeking to continue that 5



### streak. 6



### Public out cry will be required yet again 7



### to overrule their intentions and move this 8


### country toward of future of affordable and 9


### sustainable energy practice. 10


### With the world's leading green

- energy 11


### research coming from Oak Ridge National 12


### Laboratory, another plug for my area, our nation 13


### will prosper from rolling out to the world the 14


### technologies that will make this vision easily 15



### affordable and attainable. 16


### MS. KEMKER: If you'll wrap up soon. 17



### Your time has

-- 18


### MR. AGRON: Okay. 19


### The coal industry is obsolete, and we 20



### need to move on. 21


### Thank you so much for your kind 22

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### attention. 1


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 2


### Our next two speakers are Ron Shipman and 3


### Joe Reynolds. 4


### [Pause.] 5


### MS. KEMKER: Mr. Shipman, if you'll begin 6


### when you're ready. 7


### MR. SHIPMAN: Okay. Thank you. 8


### Good afternoon, a nd thank you for holding 9


### this meeting, or this hearing. My name is Ron 10


### Shipman, R

- o

- n S

- h

- i

- p

- m

- a

- n. And I am the Vice 11


### President of Environmental Affairs at Georgia 12



### Power. 13


### A subsidiary of Southern Company and 14


### Georgia's largest electricity supplier, we're 15


### committed to providing clean, safe, reliable, and 16


### affordable electricity to our 2.4 million 17


### customers by maintaining a diverse generation 18



### fleet. 19


### We're in the midst of a more than $5 20


### billion environmental construction program and 21


### will retire about 3,000 me gawatts of coal

- fired 22

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### capacity over five years in order to comply with 1



### current environmental rules. 2


### Georgia is a growing state. And at the 3


### same time, we're mindful that 44 percent of our 4


### customers make $40,000 or less a year. That 5


### said, a reliable, affor dable energy supply is 6


### critical to the state's growth and the standard 7


### of living. 8


### With these principles in mind, we have 9


### significant concerns about EPA's proposed 10


### guidelines and its potential impact to our 11



### customers. 12


### Today I have three points to discuss. 13


### First, the guidelines penalize Georgia for taking 14


### early action in constructing new nuclear. 15


### Second, the guidelines prevent us from operating 16



### in a manner that minimizes cost to our customers. 17


### Third, the guidelines overstep the agency's 18


### authority. 19



### Initiall y, Georgia Power and others 20



### committed to be the first in the nation to 21


### construct new nuclear in almost 30 years. While 22

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### other utilities will benefit from the path paved 1


### by Vogtle's units 3 and 4, we took this step with 2


### hopes of enhancing fuel diversity and addressing 3


### future CO2 requirements. 4


### Yet, rather than reward the expansion of 5



### zero

- carbon generation, EPA guidelines penalize 6


### Georgia for its early action. Because of 7


### Vogtle's units 3 and 4, EPA requires more 8


### aggressive reductions from Georgia than any ot her 9


### similarly situated state. 10


### In fact, EPA admits that it ignores the 11


### investment we are making in Vogtle 3 and 4, yet 12


### it relies on the CO2 reduction in setting 13


### Georgia's limits. As a result, EPA's proposal 14


### forces Georgians to take on a significant 15



### additio nal cost of farther reduced CO2. 16


### The message from EPA is clear: It does 17


### not pay to plan ahead. If you take early 18


### actions, you will be forced to carry an even 19


### greater burden. 20


### Secondly, EPA's proposal will prevent us 21


### from operating in a manner that minimiz es costs 22

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### to our customers. EPA's assumption on heat rate, 1


### natural gas, renewables, nuclear, energy 2


### efficiency are all too aggressive. 3


### Let me use energy efficiency for example. 4


### We have effectively worked with the Georgia 5


### Public Service Commission for year s to develop 6


### and implement energy

- efficient programs that make 7


### sense for our customers. Yet, EPA assumes 8


### Georgia can increase cumulative energy

- efficient 9


### measures to 14 times the 2012 levels, with 10



### minimal cost. 11


### Our research tells us just the opposite. 12



### Th e energy efficiency levels proposed in the 13


### guidelines could cost our customers $4 to $5 14


### billion in higher rates, costs that are not 15


### factored into this rule. Farther, the cost only 16


### covers the impact to our customers, which are 17


### roughly half the electricity users in the state. 18


### While the overall cost of EPA's proposals 19


### cannot be quantified at this point, EPA's 20


### guidelines clearly force us away from 21


### economically operating our generating fleet to 22

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### the benefit of our customers. EPA is effectively 1


### making critical r esource decisions that disregard 2


### Georgia's integrated resource planning process 3


### and disregard the economic impact to this state. 4


### Finally, we believe EPA's guidelines 5


### exceed the authority Congress intended in the 6


### Clean Air Act, and do not follow three princ iples 7



### of our nation's laws. 8


### First, EPA must define the best system of 9



### emission reduction based on measures that can be 10


### taken at the unit, not outside the power plant 11



### fence or inside the customer's home. 12


### Second, state environmental agencies, not 13


### EPA, have t he authority to set existing source 14


### performance standards. 15


### Third, EPA has no authority to set energy 16


### policy. This authority rightfully resides with 17



### the state and the Public Service Commission. 18


### These agencies are dedicated to energy planning, 19



### understandin g local needs and sensitivities, and 20


### are best positioned to make the decisions that 21


### affect the reliability and affordability of 22

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### electric service in their states. 1


### In closing, Georgia Power asks that EPA 2


### withdraw these guidelines and re

- propose them to 3



### be co nsistent with the Clean Air Act. 4


### Thank you. 5


### MR. STENHOUSE: I have a question. 6


### Mr. Shipman, will you be providing in 7


### your written comments sort of more information 8


### about how you calculated the $4 to $5 billion in 9


### higher rates for your ratepayers? 10



### MR. SHIP MAN: Yes, we will. 11


### MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thank you. 12



### MR. SHIPMAN: You're welcome. 13


### MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Reynolds. 14


### MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you. 15


### My name is Joseph Reynolds, J

- o

- s

- e

- p

- h 16



### R

- e

- y

- n

- o

- l

- d

- s. Hello. I'm a farmer here in 17



### the metro area of At lanta, in DeKalb County, just 18



### a little south of Decatur and east of downtown 19



### Atlanta. 20



### I'd like to thank the EPA for this 21


### opportunity to speak and to applaud them for the 22

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### proposed rule limiting carbon pollution going 1



### forward. 2


### I want to tell you a little bit about 3


### myself. I have about 10 years farming 4


### experience. During that time, I have operated a 5


### farming business on my own for seven of those 6


### years. And I grow diverse vegetables, mostly for 7


### a local audience. I'm a certified organic 8



### farmer. I have a 100

- member community

- supported 9


### agriculture program. I sell at a couple of local 10



### farmers markets and to restaurants. 11



### And the reason that I'm able to do this 12


### successfully on the small

- scale farm that I take 13


### care of is that I grow a wide variety of crops 14



### seasona lly for my customers. 15


### I want to give you all just a couple of 16


### highlights of my 10

- year farming career and some 17


### of the things that I've seen over that time. 18


### When I first began farming, we were in the 10

- 19


### year drought, which was quite extreme. 20



### I took over a farm in Douglasville, 21


### Georgia, for a couple of years prior to my moving 22

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### to the farm here in the metro area, where we 1


### experienced the tremendous flood of 2009, which 2


### involved my farm essentially getting 20

- plus 3



### inches of rain on it in 36 hours. That 4



### effect ively put me out of business for the 5


### remainder of the year. 6


### Following that, we have seen tremendous 7


### heat spikes over the summertimes, summertime 8


### highs of 105 to 107. Some of our years have been 9


### really dry. But last year, for example, we saw 10



### one of the ra iniest years, on average, also 11


### adversely affecting my farm business. 12


### This winter we saw the polar vortex, 13


### which was a theme I was unfamiliar with prior to 14


### it hitting. But we saw temperatures, low 15


### temperatures of 7 degrees, and now we're 16


### experiencing a sum mer polar vortex. 17


### What I really want to highlight is that 18


### things are moving quickly, from my perspective. 19


### And Georgia farmers are seeing a lot of erratic 20


### severe weather that's adversely affecting our 21


### ability to make a living. 22

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### So I want to give you a littl e background 1


### of what farmers like myself talk about at annual 2


### farming conferences that we attend annually. 3


### We're aware that climate change is happening and 4


### that it's happening as a result of the carbon 5


### pollution in the air, and we're trying to adapt 6



### to th e situation of a changing climate. 7


### While we are seeing these extremely 8


### sporadic highs and lows, we know that the trend 9


### will be moving to hotter and hotter temperatures 10



### for our area here in the Southeast. 11


### So, these changes will ultimately 12


### adversely define w hat we can grow and our ability 13


### to be successful as businesspeople. Because, 14


### while we are very environmentally concerned as a 15


### farming community, we're really concerned with 16


### staying in business. 17


### So one of these rapidly

-- one of these 18


### moves towards higher temperatures that we'll see 19


### is our loss of seasonable variability in crops 20


### that we can grow here in Georgia. So, as I 21


### defined, my market really comes to me because I 22

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### have the ability to produce a huge diversity. I 1


### grow about 30 different crops on a two

- a cre piece 2



### of land

-- lots of diversity, a very high 3


### entrance of production. 4


### So, what we'll also begin to see is, on 5


### average, warmer winters, which will, for me, 6


### effectively increase the number of insects, 7


### diseases, and weeds that easily over

- winter in 8



### our area, thereby affecting

-- essentially 9


### creating a need to manage these resources a 10


### little bit more, taking a little time away from 11


### my farming operation, and increasing my cost. 12


### Another thing that we're really beginning 13


### to recognize is that we're going to b e looking at 14


### these essentially drought

- like conditions on 15


### average that will make water also an input that's 16


### going to be hard to have on hand. We'll also 17


### begin to see some of the loss of the health in 18


### our soils, which will effectively make farming a 19



### little bit harder. I think we'll see higher 20



### costs demanded from all farmers. 21


### So while I really see the farming 22

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### community as a community that can adapt to these 1


### changes, I really applaud ya'll in taking action 2


### now to begin to limit carbon pollution, because 3



### what we don't want to do is have to hyper

- adapt 4


### going forward. 5


### So, thank you so much for allowing me 6


### this opportunity to share my experience as a 7


### farmer in Georgia. And thank you all for taking 8



### action. 9


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 10


### I believe we have a couple of que stions. 11



### MR. STENHOUSE: Yes. To start, to go 12


### back to Mr. Shipman, to your testimony. 13


### On the way you calculated the $4 to $5 14


### billion in extra payments from ratepayers, over 15


### what time period do you think that's applicable? 16


### MR. SHIPMAN: Well, we do the revi ew, we 17


### just went through our integrated resource plan 18


### last year. And that's a part of that process, so 19


### just starting back in a 2012 analysis. So the 20


### time span itself is about five years to a decade 21


### is when we're looking at the expansion. 22

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### MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Forward from 2012. 1


### And that actually reflects the plans you've 2


### already laid in the IRP process, or is that in 3


### anticipation of what you think you'd do in 4


### response to the proposed goals? 5


### MR. SHIPMAN: That's two questions. One, 6


### to plan

-- in the pro cess, our key process talks 7


### about what we've already done and what we'll be 8


### looking for for the next three years. 9


### And this rule, we've taken that 10


### extrapolation and moved it forward to the time 11


### limits that you're looking at. 12



### MR. STENHOUSE: I see. So about a five

13



### to ten

- year period is what you're saying? Okay. 14


### And do you know about sort of on a household

- bill 15


### level or something we might think about seeing 16


### change in our bills, what the effect of that 17



### would be? 18


### MR. SHIPMAN: Don't know yet, because the 19



### rul es aren't final. 20


### MR. STENHOUSE: Right. 21


### MR. SHIPMAN: So this is just our best 22

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### guess on extrapolation of the data that we 1


### currently have. 2


### MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thanks very much. 3


### MR. SHIPMAN: Okay. 4


### MS. KEMKER: All right. 5


### And, Mr. Reynolds, I had for you , I would 6


### just

-- will you be submitting your comments in 7


### writing? And to the extent that you can include 8


### examples of the comments that you made about loss 9


### of variability, increase in insects and weeds and 10


### disease, and where you can get specific examples, 11


### that would be helpful. 12


### MR. REYNOLDS: Okay. Thank you. 13


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 14


### Our next speakers are Angela Howard and 15


### Howard Katzman. Thank you. 16


### [Pause.] 17


### MS. KEMKER: It says Angela, but it could 18


### be a typo. 19


### [Inaudible interjections.] 20


### MS. KEMKER: Okay . I don't see an Angela 21


### Howell stepping forward, so it could be our

-- 22

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### [Inaudible interjection and laughter.] 1


### [Pause.] 2


### MS. KEMKER: Alice, if you'll begin when 3


### you're ready. 4


### MS. HOWELL: My name is Alice Howell, A

5



### l

- i

- c

- e

- H

- o

- w

- e

- l

- l. 6


### I'm a longtime re sident of Kentucky

-- in 7


### fact, most of my life, with a few forays into 8


### other parts of the U.S. But I want to thank the 9


### EPA for holding the regional hearings across the 10


### U.S. on the proposed Clean Power Plan. 11


### And I am committed to a brighter future 12



### for the Commonwealth of Kentucky that sees 13


### vibrant communities with diversified economies, a 14


### clean environment, and sustainable energy 15


### availability that will make our state a most 16


### desirable place to live. 17


### I believe that we all have an obligation 18


### to invest in and p rotect the future 19


### sustainability of our planet and its citizens. 20


### When the EPA introduced the proposed 21


### climate rule in early June that would reduce CO2 22

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### emissions at coal

- fired power plants, there was 1


### hope that there would be more of an emphasis on 2


### replacing high

- risk coal

- powered natural

- gas 3


### fired and nuclear power plants with low

- to no

4


### risk renewables and energy efficiency. Instead, 5


### the focus was primarily on the end

- of

- the

- pipe 6



### CO2 emissions. 7


### Though the proposed 30 percent reduction 8



### in CO2 emissions from dirty fossil

- fuel

- fired 9


### power plants

-- try to say that fast

-- by 2030 10


### is a step in the right direction, this plan does 11


### not address all the environmental impacts of the 12


### whole fuel cycle on the externalities such as air 13


### and water qualities, the severe env ironmental 14


### impacts of mountaintop removal mining and other 15



### fossil

- fuel extraction methods, and the health 16


### and economic impacts on communities overall. 17



### Since these externalities are not 18


### considered, there's the moral dilemma that the 19



### human costs are assumed as acceptable, though 20



### there are alternatives available that do not 21


### cause harm to people. 22

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### The Clean Power Plan does not do enough 1


### to address concentrations of localized pollution. 2


### We would like to see stronger incentives to 3


### protect low

- income communities, who can be 4


### disproportionately affected by carbon pollution. 5


### In Kentucky, the Energy and Environment 6



### Cabinet believes that we have almost met the CO2 7


### reduction requirements required in the Clean 8


### Power Plan. In their view, because of the coal

9


### fired power pl ants that have already closed, 10


### switched to natural gas, or currently slated to 11


### be mothballed before 2020, there is little more 12


### that we will have to do to meet the carbon plan's 13


### goals. 14


### Therefore, we see that the Clean Power 15



### Plan does not incentivize Kentuck y or other 16



### similar coal

- gas

- energy

- dependent states to move 17


### towards sustainable energy development, to tap 18



### the low

- hanging fruit of economic development and 19


### savings around energy efficiency, or to support 20



### demand

- side energy efficiency. 21


### So, with the EPA's m ission to protect 22

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### human health and the environment, and one of its 1


### purposes being that environmental protection 2


### contributes to making our communities and 3


### ecosystems diverse, sustainable, and economically 4


### productive, I ask that the EPA please promulgate 5



### the strongest regulations we need to kick

- start 6


### addressing the reality of climate change in 7


### Kentucky as they march forward with blinders on, 8


### believing that coal is still the way to go. 9


### Rather than pandering to the demands of 10


### the energy industry and the whinin g of the 11


### Southeastern states about overstepping your 12


### regulatory boundaries, center your Clean Power 13


### Plan on putting the wellbeing of the planet and 14


### its inhabitants in the priority position. 15


### And I thank you all for all the work that 16


### you've already put forwa rd on addressing climate 17


### change. But it can go a little further. 18


### Thank you. 19


### MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Katzman? 20


### MR. KATZMAN: Good afternoon. My name is 21



### Howard Katzman. That's K

- a

- t

- z

- m

- a

- n. 22

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### I'm here speaking on behalf of the 1


### Georgia Energy Efficienc y Trade Association, or 2


### GEETA. We appreciate this opportunity to provide 3


### oral arguments to the EPA on the proposed Clean 4



### Power Plan. 5


### Today, my comments will focus on energy 6


### efficiency. I am self

- employed in metro Atlanta 7


### as an energy efficiency consultan t. A major part 8


### of my business is performing home assessments for 9


### Georgia Power customers looking to improve their 10


### home's comfort and reduce energy bills. 11


### Thankfully, business is strong largely 12


### because, once people learn that there are 13



### workable cost

- effec tive solutions to their 14


### problems, they are eager to get the house fixed. 15


### They are seeing their energy bills go down by 15 16


### or 20 or even 40 percent. 17


### I am working with over a dozen companies 18


### to form GEETA because we know there is a huge 19



### need out there. Plu s, GEETA will give us a 20



### combined voice to advocate for the economic 21


### development of the energy efficiency industry in 22

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### Georgia. 1


### The houses we are fixing are not unusual. 2


### There are literally tens if not hundreds of 3


### thousands of homeowners across Georgia who can 4


### benefit from this type of program. We see the 5


### same types of issues repeatedly in homes all 6


### across the state. It's typical construction, but 7


### there are huge opportunities for improving the 8


### energy efficiency. 9


### Georgia has several paths for meeting its 10



### CO 2 reduction goals as outlined in the proposed 11


### Clean Power Plan, and energy efficiency is a very 12


### inexpensive way to meet the goal. The only 13


### utility in the state with energy efficiency goals 14



### -- Georgia Power

-- saved $450 million kilowatt 15



### hours from 2011 to 2013. Moving forward, Georgia 16


### Power's goal is slightly higher within the next 17


### three years, and it is projected to save 0.4 18


### percent of retail sales each year. 19


### While this goal is not robust, it is 20


### significantly higher than the energy efficiency 21


### impacts of the electric membership corporations 22

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### and municipal utilities in Georgia, which make up 1


### approximately half of the state's electricity 2



### sales. 3


### A statewide energy efficiency program for 4


### homes and businesses modeled on Georgia Power's 5


### current programs could be a key component of the 6


### state's plan. We are seeing homeowners implement 7



### cost

- effective improvements like duct and air 8


### sealing, and adding insulation, and getting a 9


### large bang for their buck. 10


### Given the need for Georgia Power, the 11


### EMC's, and the municipals to work together to 12


### achieve Georgia's energy efficiency goal, I 13


### suggest that a statewide entity such as the 14


### Georgia Environmental Finance Authority, or GEFA, 15


### could manage a statewide energy efficiency 16



### program. 17


### There are many advantages to this 18


### approach. A consistent statewide program would 19


### reduce confusion in the market and simplify 20


### promoting the program. It would streamline and 21


### economize the delivery by contractors. It would 22

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### allow savings in natural gas or propane, as well 1


### as kilowatt hours, to be recog nized by the 2


### programs. Keep in mind that Georgia Power's 3


### program only recognizes savings in electricity 4


### efficiency because it's an electric utility. 5


### The program

-- a consistent statewide 6


### program could provide financing, allowing 7


### customers to repay their i mprovement costs on 8


### either the utility or their property tax bills. 9


### These are proven approaches with very low 10


### delinquency rates and allow improvement costs to 11


### be paid for out of the utility savings, usually 12



### at no net cost increase to the homeowner. 13


### The pr ogram also would achieve a triple 14


### bottom line. Property owners, homeowners and 15


### tenants, and businesses all benefit with savings. 16


### It assures the state's CO2 goals are more easily 17



### met. It is fair because citizens statewide 18


### benefit from lowered utility bil ls. And it 19


### creates jobs locally, generating tax base. 20


### Property owners easily embrace energy efficiency 21



### when it is shown how it can benefit them. 22

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### The nucleus of the energy efficiency 1


### industry already exists and can easily ramp up. 2


### Georgia has over 4,000 people employed in 3


### improving energy efficiency, according to the 4


### 2013 Southeast Clean Energy Industry Census. 5


### Businesses will put people to work locally, not 6


### overseas, in meaningful jobs with translatable 7



### skills. 8


### Improving energy efficiency in buildings 9



### a nd homes in Georgia can be a major component of 10


### the Clean Power Plan. This is a grand 11


### opportunity to reduce carbon emissions while 12


### creating jobs, saving citizens money, and growing 13



### businesses like mine. 14


### Thank you very much. 15


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. Thank you both. 16


### All right. Our next two speakers are 17



### David Brown and Lance Brown. 18


### [Pause.] 19


### MS. KEMKER: Mr. David Brown, if you'll 20


### begin when you're ready? 21



### MR. DAVID BROWN: Pardon? 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MS. KEMKER: If you'll begin when you're 1


### ready. 2


### MR. DAVID BROWN: Okay. I'm D avid Brown, 3


### from Louisville, Kentucky. 4


### And about 40 years ago, I remember my 5


### physical science book in high school, it was 6


### talking about how dirty

-- dirty, dangerously 7


### dirty fossil fuels were and how we needed to go 8


### to, you know, clean energy. But here it is 40 9


### years later, and Obama just, you know, getting 10



### started. 11


### Well, shortly after that in my class, 12


### there was this saying that got started. "We got 13


### to go with what we got." You know, it became 14


### like a mantra, and it's been like a mantra for 15


### like 40 years . And it's like the opposing 16


### argument that has not been said enough, the Stone 17


### Age did not end because man ran out of rocks. We 18


### found something better to fit, to fit our 19



### survival needs. 20


### And that's when I say United States needs 21


### to be a leader, and right now we're not. Germany 22

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### and a lot of those other developmental countries 1



### are. I think we need to be a leader more than we 2


### are, and instead of, you know, saying, "Well, we 3


### got to go with this hole that we're in, because 4


### that's what we got." 5


### You know, I mea n, when 97 percent of the 6


### scientists are telling us that climate action is 7


### actually happening because we are contributing to 8


### it, and us as a developmental country, of course 9


### we're contributing a lot. 10


### So, but I was brought up as a Catholic. 11


### And my

-- our e thics always were stewardship of 12


### the environment, except you weren't supposed to 13


### go out and be a preacher. You weren't supposed 14


### to go out and go witnessing and all that sort of 15


### stuff. You were supposed to try to lead by 16


### example. 17


### And then, that's what I'v e been doing for 18


### about 35 years, I've been trying to lead by 19


### example. I was out pushing

-- I've been pushing 20


### like a rod and reel, a real push mower. You 21


### know, I was thinking

-- well, yeah. You know, I 22

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### can motivate somebody to do something

-- 1


### [Pause.] 2



### M R. DAVID BROWN: To do something better 3


### than what we were. But my brother came over 4


### about two years ago. And he was repeatedly 5


### telling me, you know, that he was repeatedly 6


### assuring me that he thought I was crazy. You 7


### know, he was saying, you know, it wa s a record 8


### year where people were dying of heat exposure. 9


### And he said, "Well, you're going to be 10


### next." But, you know, and well, when my brother 11


### left, I finished mowing my grass with my real 12


### push mower. But during that time, I mean, my 13


### mouth was, you kno w, dry for like it was full of 14


### cotton. And I was exhausted, stooped over, 15


### because they don't build stuff for tall people. 16


### And all that time, my brother

-- the 17


### little thing he was telling me was that

-- it 18


### really got to me. And I thought, well, I need to 19


### get into this environmental movement and witness 20


### like I'm here today. Because as I said, 97 21


### percent of the scientists are telling us that 22

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### it's happening and we need to do something about 1



### it. 2


### And it diminishes our capacity as human 3


### beings when we deny our culpability of being, you 4


### know, a part of it, and especially in the United 5


### States. We're a major part of it. 6


### And thank you very much for giving me 7


### this time to speak. I appreciate it. You're our 8



### friends. 9


### MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Brown. 10



### MR. LANCE BRO WN: Another Brown. Lance 11



### Brown, L

- a

- n

- c

- e B

- r

- o

- w

- n. 12


### I'm with PACE, the Partnership for 13


### Affordable Clean Energy. I'm here today 14


### representing more than 20 partners across the 15


### Southeast. Many of these are involved in 16


### manufacturing and trade, others in fa rming and 17


### agribusiness. Still others are small businesses 18


### making their way in a tough economy. Some are 19


### simply families that want to keep the lights on 20


### at an affordable price. 21


### The common bond among all these 22

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### organizations that are part of our coalition i s 1


### that each will be affected negatively by the new 2


### carbon dioxide regulation proposed by EPA. The 3


### rule will raise the price of electricity. The 4


### rule will make our nation's energy portfolio less 5


### diverse and, by definition, diminish the strong 6



### foundation o f stability that we've built. 7


### The rule will make the price of 8


### electricity more volatile by forcing utilities to 9


### use more natural gas. These are the things the 10


### rule will do, and we believe that a careful 11



### examination of the available data

-- as opposed 12



### to b ias, belief, or just hope

-- will lead 13


### reasonable thinkers to the same troubling 14



### conclusions. 15


### There are things, however, that the rule 16


### will not do. Although EPA has sold its 17


### regulation of carbon dioxide to the American 18


### public as a climate

- change measure, the truth is 19


### that the agency's mandate in producing CO2 from 20


### the power sector is about political posturing, 21



### not real climate results. 22

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### The agency's Chief, Gina McCarthy, even 1


### admitted this fact in testimony to the House of 2


### Representatives in September of 20 13. When asked 3


### if EPA's regulation of CO2 would cause any 4


### measurable change in the agency's 26 indicators 5


### of climate change, Administrator McCarthy said 6


### they would not. 7


### Rather, she explained, a carbon rule only 8


### works if other nations adopt the same polici es. 9



### She rationalized that the administration's CO2 10


### regulation, quote, "positions the U.S. for 11


### leadership." In short, this rule is only 12


### leverage. 13


### This is not the message EPA has sent to 14


### the American public. If Americans truly realized 15


### that their governme nt was trading affordable 16


### power prices and a strong and stable electricity 17


### portfolio only for political leverage, they would 18


### not support the rule. In fact, they would be 19


### angry, disappointed, and wondering why the 20


### Executive Branch made such a terrible barg ain. 21



### The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has 22

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### estimated the rule will raise the price of 1


### electricity as much as 40 percent and cost more 2


### than 200,000 jobs. Just as important, the rule 3


### will speed the closure of coal

- fired power plants 4


### in the U.S., forcing another 114 gigawatts of 5


### generation off the grid. 6


### Philip Moeller of FERC puts it in the 7


### simplest possible terms: "If you take enough 8


### supply out of the system, the price is going to 9


### increase." The agency's MATS rule is already 10


### taking 60 gigawatts of generation of f the grid 11


### next year. Mr. Moeller says that these rapid 12


### shocks to our energy supply could cause brownouts 13



### or even blackouts. That was in the LA Times. 14


### Meanwhile, the rest of the world will use 15


### U.S. coal to produce more than six additional 16



### tons of carbon for every one ton we reduce under 17



### this rule. The bottom line is that the earth's 18


### temperature will not change because of this rule, 19


### but power bills will. 20


### On behalf of our partners, we ask the EPA 21


### to abandon this irrational approach to climate 22

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### change and fo cus instead on more reasonable 1



### measures that deliver real results. 2


### Thanks for the opportunity to testify. 3


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 4


### Questions? 5



### MR. STENHOUSE: Yes. Mr. Lance Brown, I 6


### think you just mentioned a ratio of six 7



### additional tons of carbon to one. Can you 8


### clarify what you're saying there about those 9



### numbers? 10



### MR. LANCE BROWN: Sure. The U.S. Chamber 11


### of Commerce's study says that projections of, I 12


### believe it's through 2030

-- project that CO2 13


### emissions worldwide will increase by about 62 14



### percent. T aking the U.S. portion of that under 15


### the EPA rule, we would still see more than 50 16


### percent increase, even with the rule. 17


### MR. STENHOUSE: Thank you. 18


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 19


### Our next two speakers are Cliff Cockerham 20


### and Elizabeth Henry Warner. 21


### [Pause.] 22

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### MS. KEMKER: And, Mr. Cockerham, if 1


### you'll begin when you're ready. 2


### DR. COCKERHAM: Okay. My name is Dr. 3


### Cliff, C

- l

- i

- f

- f, Cockerham, C

- o

- c

- k

- e

- r

- h

- a

- m, 4


### from Nashville, Tennessee. First I speak as the 5



### Environment Justice Committee Chair of the 6



### Tennessee Sierra Club. 7


### Over the last 35 years, I've been 8


### variously involved as an investigator and 9


### research guest collaborator at Brookhaven 10


### National Laboratory, the National Institutes of 11


### Health, the Centers for Disease Control, Emory 12


### University School of Medicine, Harvard Medical 13


### School, et cetera, and was a coauthor in the '90s 14


### of one of the NIH minority health research 15


### agendas. 16


### But more personally, my father suffers 17



### from asthma. Four of America's so

- called "asthma 18


### capitals" are Nashville, Knoxville, Memphis, and 19


### Chattanooga, Tennessee. So my friends and 20


### neighbors suffer from asthma, and a startling 21


### percentage of the Tennessee young people I work 22

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### with suffer from asthma and an array of other 1


### diseases indisputably associated with burning 2


### fossil fuels, which might help explain why 3


### Tennessee has the second highest infant mortality 4



### in the United States. 5


### EPA estimates that by 2030, proposed 6


### rules will annually

-- that is annually

-- 7


### prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and 6,000 deaths 8


### per year. I believe this is a conserva tive 9


### estimate and only hints at what is possible if 10


### these rules were only stronger. 11



### It is well known that both human burden 12


### and other human costs of climate change impact 13


### all humans, but disproportionate burden is borne 14


### by women, mothers, children, elders, people of 15


### color, and people at the socioeconomic margins. 16


### These people, indeed this entire country, 17


### desperately needs decisive action to dramatically 18


### and immediately cut power plant emissions. 19


### Therefore, I applaud proposed EPA rules, 20


### call for the impleme ntation immediately, and 21


### enthusiastically encourage you to make them 22

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### stronger in every possible way at every 1


### opportunity. 2


### As said earlier by the President

- elect of 3


### the Physicians for Social Responsibility, the 4


### proposed carbon rules are, quote, "the most 5



### pr omising health

- protective climate proposals in 6


### years," end quote. 7


### Tennessee is certainly off to a good 8


### start, but there is every reason to believe that 9


### the proposed rules will give Tennessee 10


### stakeholders the clarity, the focus, the 11


### political will, and fede ral support to do what is 12


### vital, what is essential, what is avoided only at 13


### the peril of our nation and of our species. 14


### In Tennessee, we are seeing an explosive 15


### growth today of solar power. Wind power is 16


### poised to come online soon to deliver clean low

17



### cos t energy. But clean power will accelerate the 18



### process

-- the Clean Power Plan

-- providing a 19


### solid time frame for us to move more rapidly to a 20


### clean energy economy, and in the process 21


### delivering improved overall health, economic 22

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### growth, job creation, and more disposable income 1


### for the working poor through lower energy bills. 2


### Second, I speak as Director of 3


### Environmental Justice Programs for the Tennessee 4


### Alliance for Progress locally, and 5


### internationally for the Xavier Green School 6


### Movement led by the Xavie r Green School of 7


### India; the Methodist Schools of Gujarat Province, 8


### India; the Global Sustainability Education Center 9



### in Nashville; and other networked education 10


### programs in the Yucatan, Australian Outback, and 11


### Africa, et cetera. 12



### The Xavier Green School M ovement networks 13


### schools that are proactively raising their 14


### operational and pedagogical carbon

- reduction 15


### commitments to exemplary levels, explicitly 16


### supporting the UN Decade of Sustainable Energy 17


### for All and the UN sustainable development goals. 18


### In Septemb er 2014, a few weeks from now, 19


### the UN Climate Summit will attempt to set the 20


### stage for decisive global consensus to 21


### dramatically work towards halting human 22

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### activities that continuously magnify the 1


### greenhouse effect, accelerating global warming, 2


### triggering climate change, severe weather, 3


### climate refugees, habitat loss, species 4


### extinction, loss of agricultural production, and 5


### eventually a planet that will not be favorable to 6



### human life. 7


### In this light, I believe it is urgent, 8


### the moral imperative, that EPA hel p the U.S. move 9


### toward global leadership on climate change. 10


### America cannot afford to ignore climate change. 11


### America cannot fight climate change alone. And 12


### to be clear, America cannot lead nor even join 13


### the global consensus without dramatic action at 14



### hom e. 15



### We need to clear our heads of 16


### preconceived notions, as suggested by Jim Doyle's 17


### manufacturing economic analysis, that said, 18


### quote, "Severe weather costs an auto assembly 19


### plant more in one hour than the EPA's standards 20


### will cost that plant in an entire y ear," end 21



### quote. 22

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### If we fail to move forward as EPA 1


### proposes now, it will not be from a lack of data. 2


### It will not be from a flawed analysis of 3


### probabilities. If we fail to move forward, it 4


### will be from demands for certainty, where clear 5


### heads accept that probability is the logical 6


### basis of rational planning. 7


### We have the technology. If we give in to 8


### special interests at the cost of the greater 9


### good, it will be because we failed to think of 10


### our grandchildren's grandchildren, the children 11


### of the world, the future of our species. 12


### If we fail now to see EPA stay on course 13


### and even strengthen proposed rules, it will be 14


### because we simply do not care enough to think 15


### beyond selfish short

- term profits for the few at 16


### the cost of long

- term greater good for the many. 17



### T hank you for your time. 18


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 19


### Questions? 20



### DR. COCKERHAM: I have extra time? 21


### [Laughter.] 22

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### MS. KEMKER: No. 1


### [Laughter.] 2


### MR. STENHOUSE: Could you again say this? 3


### You were quoting

-- I heard his name as Jim 4


### somebody with a study

-- 5



### DR. COCK ERHAM: One of the earlier 6


### speakers. I was very impressed at the 7


### presentation he made and the statistical analysis 8


### he offered you on the cost of the ruling on the 9


### manufacturing sector, as compared to the cost of 10


### doing nothing, which will be much greater. 11


### MR. STENHOUSE: Could you remind us his 12



### full name? 13


### DR. COCKERHAM: I can share his paper 14


### with you, and he's also an earlier speaker. 15


### MR. STENHOUSE: Of course. Thank you. 16


### DR. COCKERHAM: And actually, I'd be glad 17


### to send you something in the next day or s o with 18



### details. 19


### MR. STENHOUSE: Thanks very much. 20



### DR. COCKERHAM: Sure. 21



### MS. KEMKER: Ms. Henry Warner. 22

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### MS. WARNER: Elizabeth Warner, W

- a

- r

- n

- e

1


### r, with Santee Cooper. 2


### Santee Cooper is South Carolina's state

3


### owned electric and water utility and the state's 4


### largest power producer, supplying electricity 5


### that powers more than 2 million South Carolinians 6



### in all 46 counties of our state. We serve retail 7


### customers, industrial customers, and have a 8



### wholesale division that serves the state's 9


### electric cooperatives i n several municipalities. 10


### As a public power entity with no 11


### shareholders, Santee Cooper works to provide 12


### affordable, environmentally responsible, and 13


### reliable electricity that promotes economic 14


### development. 15


### Years ago, Santee Cooper and other South 16



### Carolina utilities began planning for strategic 17


### reductions in CO2 emissions. Santee Cooper is 18


### using an approach that balances environmental 19


### stewardship, reliability, and cost. We've had 20


### many successes in this effort. We're running our 21


### fossil plants at maximum ef ficiency. We have 22

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### increased our use of natural gas generation. We 1



### have closed four older coal

- fired units, about 10 2


### percent of our generation. 3


### We were the first utility to generate and 4


### deliver electricity from renewable resources in 5


### South Carolina, and w e maintain the largest 6


### portfolio today. We have rebates and other 7



### incentives for customers to make their homes and 8


### businesses energy efficient. 9


### In partnership with South Carolina 10


### Electric and Gas, we are building two of the 11



### first new nuclear units in our country. Santee 12


### Cooper has already cut our CO2 emissions by 23 13


### percent since 2005. 14



### With all of the above initiatives 15


### appropriately accounted for, Santee Cooper 16


### expects to cut our CO2 emissions a total of 44 17


### percent by 2029, compared to 2005. These 18



### initia tives are costly, but Santee Cooper has 19


### saved customers in the state money by being 20


### proactive in launching them, rather than waiting 21



### until we are forced to act. 22

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### Now it appears our early actions are 1


### being discounted, and South Carolinians will be 2



### asked to s pend far more money to achieve a target 3



### stricter than asked of 47 other states. 4


### South Carolina's 2012 emission rate, 5


### taking into account all current generating units 6


### that can be used to meet the goal, is 1,587 7


### pounds of CO2 per megawatt hour. That is abou t 8


### the midpoint among the states. The draft rule 9


### sets a final 2030 target of 772 pounds of CO2 per 10


### megawatt hour. That equates to a 51 percent 11


### reduction, the third most significant reduction 12


### from 2012 levels among all 50 states. 13


### Santee Cooper has always f ocused on 14


### keeping power costs affordable for all of our 15


### customers, and our industrial power costs are 29 16


### percent below the national average. Electricity 17


### is often one of the largest expenses for 18


### industry, and extreme efforts required to meet 19


### the proposed E PA target will certainly drive up 20


### costs to power those plants. 21


### The draft rule makes many assumptions 22

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### about electricity generation in South Carolina. 1



### We want to make sure EPA understands our state's 2


### specific challenges. 3


### EPA has proposed building blocks to help 4


### states achieve lower emissions. However, many of 5


### these assumptions for these building blocks are 6


### not a good fit for South Carolina. Most critical 7


### in terms of cost is the way the proposal treats 8


### new nuclear already under construction. 9



### Our new nuclear project with South 10


### Carolina Electric and Gas will cost about $10 11


### billion, and South Carolina electric consumers 12


### are already paying into the project. By 13


### considering these under

- construction units as if 14


### they are already built, and in doing so setting 15



### our g oal more restrictively, you are punishing 16


### South Carolina for being proactive in its CO2 17


### reductions and investing early in this project. 18



### The end result is consumers in South 19


### Carolina will have to pay again for high

- cost CO2 20



### reductions from renewables and ot her measures 21



### that are not cost effective for our state. 22

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### EPA should not count under

- construction 1


### nuclear as a part of the state target, but should 2


### allow it to be used for compliance with the 3


### revised target. This approach would give South 4



### Carolina full cred it for its efforts, and our 5


### customers would not bear the burden of paying for 6



### additional reductions. 7


### EPA advocates more use of natural gas. 8


### South Carolina, especially the eastern half, has 9


### no infrastructure to add natural gas generation, 10



### since the nearest pipeline runs along our western 11


### border. Santee Cooper is already running our gas 12



### units as much as we can. 13



### There are differences between South 14


### Carolina and other states in the amount and type 15


### of renewables available for electric production. 16



### We do not hav e the resources to meet a renewable 17


### requirement of 10 percent by 2030. 18


### An estimated 36 percent of all South 19



### Carolina's retail sales are to industrial 20



### customers. It is not reasonable to assume that 21


### the large increases in energy efficiency are 22

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### available to this customer class. Therefore, 1


### achieving a 10 percent increase in energy 2


### efficiency savings in South Carolina is not a 3


### feasible goal. 4


### EPA should recognize South Carolina's 5


### particular situation with regard to opportunities 6



### for CO2 reduction. The initiati ves we have 7


### already proactively undertaken will reduce CO2 8


### emissions by 44 percent for Santee Cooper. That 9


### is far more than the 30 percent EPA has set for 10



### the nation. 11



### When other utilities are counted in the 12


### state, we are far ahead of your national average

. 13


### To ask us to do more simply because we got a head 14


### start is unfair to the people of South Carolina, 15



### who bear the ultimate burden for these measures. 16


### Thank you. 17


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 18


### I had a clarifying question. You had 19


### given an estimate of the reducti ons in South 20


### Carolina by 2030. 21



### MS. WARNER: Yes. 22

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### MS. KEMKER: What was that? 1



### MS. WARNER: We expect

-- Santee Cooper 2


### expects to cut its CO2 emissions a total of 44 3


### percent by 2029. 4


### MS. KEMKER: Forty percent. And that's 5


### by what date? 6



### MS. WARNER: From 200 5. 7


### MS. KEMKER: Okay. 8



### MS. WARNER: The date the President made 9



### the statement. 10


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 11


### Other questions? 12


### [No audible response.] 13


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 14


### Our next two speakers are Joyce Lanning 15



### and Deborah Jackson. 16


### [Pause.] 17



### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 18


### Ms. Lanning, if you'll begin when you're 19


### ready. 20


### MS. LANNING: Thank you. I'm Joyce 21


### Lanning from Birmingham, Alabama, and a proud 22

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### grandmother. Since 2008, I've also been a member 1


### of Climate Change Task Force of the League of 2



### Women Voters of the United States. That's the 3


### role that brings me here today. And I thank you 4


### for this opportunity to speak. It's a first for 5


### me in my 71 years. 6


### Picture with me a time 43 years ago. I 7


### can barely see the smokestacks of Birmingham's 8


### skyline through th e reddish

- brown haze that 9


### signals prosperity for our community back then. 10



### It was November 1971. And the health hazards 11


### from the visible air pollution trapped over our 12


### city by stagnant air were so bad that the health 13


### department begged the smokestack indus tries to 14


### shut down for a few days until the air cleared 15


### and the danger to anyone who breathed was over. 16


### When the industries refused, a federal 17


### district judge, for the first time in the country 18


### since the year

- old Clean Air Act was passed, they 19



### used their em ergency powers and ordered over 20 20


### of the largest polluters idle until the toxic 21



### emergency was over. 22

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### It worked. But the city businessmen 1


### complained it was far too aggressive. The county 2


### health officer said, "If you're saying that we 3



### should wait to be cou nting bodies before we do 4


### something, I disagree." 5


### Well, it seems to me that that's where we 6


### are today with invisible carbon pollution from 7


### electric power plants, needing to act before the 8


### body count gets too much higher. Already we're 9


### seeing and feeling t he impacts of too much CO2

-- 10


### a warming planet, devastating extreme weather 11


### events, droughts and forest fires, rising sea 12


### levels, storm surges, you know, the increasing 13


### body count in lives, health, jobs, property and 14


### prosperity. 15



### We must set limits on carbo n pollution 16


### because the market is failing to give us the true 17


### cost of electric power. 18


### I taught college economics. A market 19


### only works when the price correctly includes the 20


### full cost, like health impacts and premature 21


### death and environmentally destructive mining and 22

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### the damages caused by climate change. 1


### So, the price for electricity fails to 2


### include these external damages. Well, you could 3


### picture it this way: A male African elephant can 4


### weight 6.8 metric tons. Using the air as pre

5


### waste dump, we're tossi ng almost 300 million 6


### elephants into the sky every year, the 7


### equivalent, just in the United States. 8


### Now, picture them falling back down on 9


### us, creating havoc with the systems that support 10


### us and other life on our planet. The Clean Air 11


### Act has successfully addressed dangers from 12


### particulate, lead, and harmful gases, with 13


### benefits that are significantly greater than the 14


### costs, which were far lower than the disastrous 15


### costs predicted by opponents. 16


### By releasing American ingenuity, the 17


### benefits of this proposed rule can also exceed 18


### costs. In 2010, the League of Women Voters of 19



### the United States created a toolkit for climate 20


### action for local leagues to use as a resource for 21


### addressing climate disruption in their 22

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### communities. 1


### A recent update focused on adapting t o 2


### climate changes already in the pipeline. But we 3


### still need to dramatically reduce the amount of 4


### CO2 we're dumping into the atmosphere. 5


### This proposed rule will support the work 6


### of our nearly 800 state and local leaders across 7


### the country trying to do som ething about it. The 8


### good news is that this rule, for example, by 9


### encouraging energy efficiency, can help consumers 10


### save energy and save money by cutting their 11


### electricity use and their electricity bills. 12


### And the proposed Clean Power Plan gives 13



### states lik e Alabama the flexibility to choose the 14



### most cost

- effective measures to achieve these 15



### needed reductions. 16


### The Department of Defense is leading the 17


### way. They're not waiting for certainties that 18


### never come. They already understand the 19


### potential body count. They're managing major 20


### risks by cutting their energy use and reducing 21


### their carbon footprint. 22

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### The League of Women Voters has advocated 1


### reductions in CO2 emissions for 15 years. Most 2


### recently, delegates to our national convention in 3



### June voted overwhelmin gly to support putting a 4


### price on carbon. The league and our Climate 5


### Change Task Force strongly endorses the proposed 6


### rule to limit carbon pollution from power plants. 7


### As for me, personally, I was jolted out 8


### of my complacency in 2007, and I continue to 9



### le arn about the risky carbon business that 10



### threatens us and all who come after us. I 11


### support this rule as a step toward a healthy 12


### future I envision for our own young and the young 13


### of all species. 14


### Thank you very much for letting me speak. 15



### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 16


### MR. STENHOUSE: Can I ask what jolted you 17


### out of your complacency in 2007, as you put it? 18


### MS. LANNING: Well, yes. It was the 19



### Nobel Peace Prize that awarded the 20


### Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and Al 21


### Gore for spreading the word about the da ngers of 22

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### carbon pollution. And I didn't understand until 1


### the message got to me. 2


### We didn't know what we were doing when we 3


### chose to use fossil fuels to power ourselves. We 4


### needed it. We didn't know, but now we do. And I 5


### can't stop trying to do something about it. 6


### MR. STENHOUSE: Thank you very much. 7


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 8



### Ms. Jackson. 9


### MS. JACKSON: Yes. Good afternoon, 10


### members of the panel. My name is Deborah A. 11


### Jackson, and I'm here in the capacity serving as 12


### Mayor of the City of Lithonia, Georgia. 13



### S o, as a representative of the city and 14


### on behalf of the many residents of DeKalb County 15


### and the metro Atlanta region, I'm here today to 16


### express support of the proposed EPA Clean Power 17


### Plan as an important step to address the impact 18


### of carbon pollution on p eople's health and the 19



### environment. 20


### Additionally, I want to present a letter 21



### that's addressed to President Barack Obama that 22

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### has been signed by several mayors from the EPA 1


### Region 4. We are requesting that the letter be 2


### made part of the record of these pro ceedings. 3


### In pertinent part, the letter says, "Dear 4


### President Obama: As public officials concerned 5


### about our constituents' wellbeing, we thank you 6


### for your leadership today on addressing climate 7


### change. We enthusiastically support the Clean 8


### Power Plan pr oposed by the Environmental 9


### Protection Agency. 10


### "Climate change threatens the health of 11


### our families, our communities, and ecosystems on 12


### which we depend, and we are ready to work with 13


### and support you and your administration. 14


### Together, we can implement a co mprehensive 15


### approach to reduce carbon pollution while 16


### building resilient communities with strong local 17


### economies, reliable and affordable energy 18


### choices, and that are well prepared for the 19


### impacts of climate change now and into the 20



### future. 21


### "We are ready to stand up in support of 22

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### this bold action to ensure our communities and 1


### our health are protected and that we are doing 2


### our part to take action to fight climate change. 3


### "Thank you again, Mr. President, for your 4


### leadership in addressing the largest 5



### environme ntal crisis of our time." 6


### During the course of the public hearings, 7


### I am sure that you will receive comments that 8



### will focus on the scientific and technical 9


### aspects of the proposed plan. As an elected 10


### official and policymaker, I wanted to share with 11


### the p anel some concerns that need to be 12


### incorporated as essential components of the plan. 13


### Often, smaller communities with limited 14


### resources are most impacted by the various forms 15


### of pollution. The impacts are found in health 16


### disparities such as higher levels o f respiratory 17


### diseases, higher rates of cancer, and overall 18


### poorer health quality. These impacts are further 19


### compounded by limited economic resources, limited 20


### access to health care facilities, food 21


### insecurity, high unemployment levels, and 22

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### underemployment , just to name a few. 1


### But these challenges are not found just 2


### in small communities. Some of our major cities 3


### have neighborhoods and areas that suffer from the 4



### same maladies. 5


### Unfortunately, some of the past 6


### regulatory processes have allowed for the 7



### concent ration of facilities that have levels of 8


### pollution primarily within low

- income and 9


### communities of color. Generally, no attention is 10


### given to the cumulative effects of existing 11


### polluting facility in those areas before new ones 12


### are approved. 13



### "Environmental justice" and 14



### "environmental racism" are terms used to describe 15


### the disproportionate placement of toxic and 16


### polluting businesses and industries in 17


### predominantly African American communities, as 18



### well as low

- income communities. 19


### The businesses always come into the 20


### community under the guise of economic development 21


### and job creation. And while a few people get 22

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### some jobs, the overall impact on the health of 1


### the workers and the surrounding community is not 2



### worth the risk. 3


### Environmental racism and injustice is not 4


### j ust a local problem, but it is a national one. 5


### You may be familiar with the 1987 report prepared 6


### by the United Church of Christ Commission for 7



### Racial Justice on Toxic Waste and Race. 8


### Some of the things that they found out 9



### were that three out of five Afric an Americans 10



### live in communities with abandoned toxic waste 11


### sites, and three of the five largest commercial 12



### hazardous

- waste landfills are located in 13


### predominantly African American or Latino 14


### communities and accounts for 40 percent of the 15



### nation's total land fill capacity. 16


### Twenty years later, in 2007, the 17



### commission found that race continued to be the 18


### most important consideration in the location of 19



### those facilities. 20



### In the interests of the communities and 21


### the country, I am requesting that EPA incorporate 22

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### the p rinciples of environmental justice, as well 1


### as climate justice, as an essential and necessary 2


### part of the Clean Power Plan. Additionally, the 3


### environmental and climate justice principles must 4


### be made part of the state implementation planning 5


### process. And environmental leaders need to be 6


### part of that process, going forward. 7



### It is essential that EPA take a firm 8


### position to protect the environment and health of 9



### overburdened communities and work with elected 10


### officials and other community stakeholders to 11



### achie ve healthy and sustainable communities. 12


### Thank you very much for this opportunity. 13


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 14


### Thank you both. 15


### Our next two speakers are Stephanie 16


### Stuckey

- Benfield and Sandy Kurtz. 17


### [Pause.] 18


### MS. KEMKER: And just as a public service 19



### announcemen t, for making sure that we get all of 20


### your comments, I know there's an effort to get 21


### them all in within the five minutes. But please 22

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### speak at least slowly enough so that we can get 1


### it recorded for our record. So, thank you very 2



### much. 3



### Ms. Kurtz. You may begin when you're 4


### ready. 5


### MS. KURTZ: Oh. I'm going to ask someone 6


### else to join me up here first. 7


### MS. KEMKER: If you'll go ahead and 8


### speak, that would be great. 9


### MS. KURTZ: I'm Sandy Kurtz. And I am

-- 10


### I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And I am an 11



### envir onmental education consultant and Vice 12


### President of Blue Ridge Environmental Defense 13


### League and involved with its local chapter, 14


### Bellefont Efficiency and Sustainability Team

15


### Mothers Against Tennessee River Radiation. 16


### My general impression of the plan, as i t 17



### has

-- the proposal as it has been presented is 18


### good. The emphasis on individual state plans 19


### allows for creativity and flexibility and 20


### regional adaptability. 21


### I do have a question, however. Since I 22

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### live in Tennessee, that means that our energy 1


### generatio n comes from Tennessee Valley Authority, 2


### TVA. That is, of course, a quasi

- federal agency 3


### with 9 million customers in parts of seven 4


### states. That means they don't really have to 5


### answer to any state determinations. 6


### TVA has already taken a great many steps 7


### to reduce carbon emissions, although they're 8


### dragging their feet on support of solar use, 9


### since there surely requires a more distributed 10


### energy model. 11



### What is the

-- here's the question: What 12


### is the relationship required for interaction 13



### between TVA and th e State of Tennessee when it 14


### comes to developing a plan to address climate 15


### resiliency, which is what your plan is 16


### addressing? Of course, the proposed rules ask 17


### that each state must comply with BSER, the best 18


### system of emission reduction. Certainly, that 19


### means no more coal plants. 20



### But it should also mean no nuclear 21


### plants. This is a major concern for me, as the 22

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### rules now are proposing. There is this myth that 1


### nuclear plants do not contribute to global 2


### warming, and therefore all we have to do is build 3



### mor e nuclear plants to replace the coal that 4


### we're closing down. 5


### In the rules, you state that nuclear 6


### power provides carbon

- free generation. 7


### Certainly, compared to coal, there are less CO2 8


### emissions at the plant itself. But the mining, 9


### extensive processing, transportation of the fuel 10


### before it ever gets to the reactor is not 11



### emission

- free by a long shot. 12


### Nuclear power emits 10 to 20 times more 13


### CO2 than, say, wind. Further, climate disruption 14


### will keep nuclear plants from operating, as we 15


### have already witnes sed in the TVA system. When 16


### the water gets too warm in the summer, nuclear 17


### plants must shut down, and that has happened at 18



### Brown's Ferry. 19


### The plan states also that you don't want 20



### to count construction emissions for Watts Bar 2 21


### in Tennessee, Vogtle 2 throu gh 4 in Georgia, and 22

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### Summer 2 and 3 in South Carolina, since they got 1


### permission to construct prior to this proposal. 2


### But they are not completed yet, and thus they 3


### will be contributing to carbon emissions when 4


### these rules go into effect. 5


### The plan indicate s the desire to increase 6


### the amount of available nuclear capacity by 7


### preserving existing nuclear EGU's that might 8



### otherwise be retired. The risk for accidents in 9


### nuclear plants increases as age increases. These 10


### nuclear plants are all ready for retirement . No 11


### matter how much money it saves or how much 12


### finagling of how we count the CO2 emissions, 13


### saving old nuclear plants is not worth the risk. 14


### The report keeps saying that EPA 15



### considers CO2 emissions reductions from the 16


### various sources, that it can be done , quote, "at 17


### reasonable cost." The cost ranging anywhere from 18


### $40 per metric ton to $10 per metric ton, that's 19


### for renewables. And you wanted to offset the 6 20


### percent of the older nukes; that would be $12 to 21


### $17 per metric ton. 22

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### All the statistics and figu ring, I don't 1



### believe that those include the health risks and 2


### resulting deaths, because that is an externality 3


### that is usually not included. I think that if we 4


### look at it in that way, the costs are too high 5



### for both coal and nuclear. 6



### And further with nucl ear, there are not 7


### enough sites to build in the time required. When 8


### it takes 10 years or more to build a nuclear 9


### plant, we don't have time or money. 10


### Distributed energy solar power, wind 11


### power, energy efficiency, and energy conservation 12



### -- we need to do it quickly. We can't wait. 13



### There is a

-- we need to recognize the urgency of 14



### this issue. 15


### Thank you. 16


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 17


### Ms. Stuckey

- Benfield. 18



### MS. STUCKEY

- BENFIELD: Good afternoon. 19


### My name is Stephanie Stuckey

- Benfield, and I 20


### apologize for coming up o n stage late. I am 21


### actually a last

- minute replacement for Pat 22

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### Gardner, who had been

-- had planned on 1


### testifying today. 2


### She is a state representative, and serves 3


### on the Health and Human Services Committee, and 4


### is a very passionate advocate for children's 5


### health. And Pat had been prepared to talk about 6


### some of the health impacts of carbon emissions. 7


### So I regret that she won't be here with us today. 8


### But I'm happy to offer some remarks in her place. 9


### I am a former state representative. I'm 10


### originally from Eastman, Georgia. My family has 11


### been in Georgia since the mid

- 1800s. So I really 12


### care about and love this state, and care about 13


### its special, beautiful, natural places. 14


### I served in the legislature for 14 years 15



### and served on the Natural Resources Committee

. 16


### And in the past three years, I've had the honor 17


### of heading up an environmental nonprofit law firm 18


### called GreenLaw. And we engage, on behalf of the 19


### Sierra Club, at the Public Service Commission 20


### here in Georgia, and we do a lot to promote, in 21


### particular, renewable energy and energy 22

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### efficiency. We will be engaging in the 111(d) 1


### implementation here at the state level. 2


### I just want to commend the EPA for 3


### introducing these regulations, for having a 4


### public comment process, for allowing average 5



### citizens to come in and offer their opinions 6


### about these rules. It's really important. 7


### I'm also a mother. I have two young 8


### children. I have a son with asthma, and I'm sure 9


### you've heard your share of asthma stories. But 10


### they're real, and they're personal. And anyone 11



### w ho has ever dealt with the health consequences 12


### of clean air can relate to how important it is to 13



### limit carbon emissions. 14


### Here in Georgia, it's particularly 15


### important because the world's dirtiest carbon 16


### emitter by many different organizations is here 17



### in our state in Juliette, Plant Scherer. 18


### What I think it's important to stress 19


### about these carbon regs is their flexibility and 20


### that each state can personalize and tailor the 21


### regulations so that it best meets the energy 22

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### needs of that state. Here in Georgia, I k now at 1


### GreenLaw and the Sierra Club, whom we represent, 2


### we're going to be stressing especially energy 3


### efficiency. I consider that to be low

- hanging 4


### fruit. It helps businesses save costs. And it 5


### helps reduce our carbon emissions. 6


### I also think it's import ant for us to 7


### continue on the renewable energy path that 8


### Georgia is already on. We've made some great 9


### strides in solar energy in the past couple of 10


### years, particularly before the Public Service 11


### Commission, adding 525 additional megawatts of 12



### solar. So we' re continuing on a path that we're 13


### already on. 14


### We just had a docket before the Public 15


### Service Commission, for the first time ever in 16


### Georgia, to have wind energy in our state. And 17


### that's huge. It is purchased from the Midwest, 18


### but it's still adding energ y

-- adding wind 19


### energy to our portfolio. 20


### So we're continuing on a path that we're 21


### already on. But we have a lot further to go. 22

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### Renewable is still less than 1 percent of our 1


### portfolio. So I hope that with these 2


### regulations, we'll see more renewables and more 3



### efficiencies. 4


### The last thing I'll say is I'm sorry that 5



### this is in a room that has no windows. You're 6


### probably sorry about that, too. I just left a 7


### fabulous rally. Some of the folks with the blue 8



### shirts

-- and I don't see any yellow

-- I see a 9



### few yellow shirts. We were there. There were 10


### almost 400 people outside rallying in support of 11


### these carbon regs. 12


### So I'm sorry that you're not there to 13


### know that they are many people who have really 14


### taken to the streets today, chanting. And we had 15


### bagpipes and bongo drums. And we're really 16


### rallying in strong support for these carbon 17


### regulations. So I want to commend the EPA for 18


### taking the initiative with this. And we strongly 19


### support the limits on carbon pollution. 20


### Thank you. 21


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 22

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### Quest ions? 1


### [No audible response.] 2


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 3


### Our next two speakers will be Eleanor 4


### Hand and Chris Strippelhoff. 5


### [Pause.] 6


### MS. KEMKER: Mr. Strippelhoff, you may 7


### begin when you're ready. 8


### MR. STRIPPELHOFF: My name is Chris 9


### Strippelhoff, and I' m the Chief Membership 10


### Officer of the Municipal Gas Authority of 11


### Georgia. And the spelling of my last name is S

12



### t

- r

- i

- p

- p

- e

- l

- h

- o

- f

- f. 13


### The Gas Authority is the largest 14


### nonprofit natural gas joint

- action agency in the 15


### United States. We serve 78 municipall y owned 16


### natural gas distribution systems in five states, 17


### as well as nine partner organizations. 18


### Because future generations are dependent 19


### on our actions, the Gas Authority strongly 20


### believes in the effective stewardship of our 21


### environment and recognizes the unique and 22

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### important role natural gas plays in helping our 1


### nation achieve better air quality, while at the 2


### same time consuming our natural resources as 3


### responsibly as possible. 4


### Natural gas, used efficiently and 5


### responsibly, has the potential to actually re duce 6


### overall energy expenditures for consumers, too. 7


### Some have referred to natural gas as a 8


### "bridge fuel" to a sustainable energy future. 9


### And perhaps they're right. What we do know 10


### presently and are convinced of is the fact that 11



### the direct use of natural gas in thermal 12


### applications is the most efficient, clean, and 13



### cost

- effective way in which to use this abundant 14



### domestic resource. 15


### The role of natural gas is actually far 16


### more important than simply serving as the backup 17


### fuel for renewables. It has the pot ential to be 18


### the most effective tool in constructing truly 19



### successful demand

- side energy efficiency 20



### programs. 21


### In fact, maximizing direct use of natural 22

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### gas closest to the point of consumer application 1


### may be the single most effective way to help EPA 2



### meet i ts stated goals of cutting wasted energy, 3


### improving efficiency, and reducing pollution. 4


### We cannot manage what we cannot measure, 5


### but what we measure must be meaningful. Because 6


### emissions are directly related to energy 7


### consumption, our universal focus must be on 8


### source efficiency. All other things being equal, 9


### less energy consumed equates to lower emissions. 10


### We must embrace an efficiency standard 11


### encompassing the full fuel cycle. 12


### Very simply, we must consider the entire 13


### energy chain from source to site, a nd establish 14


### rules and policies accordingly. DOE has 15


### recognized the shortcomings of site

- based 16


### analysis, as well as the National Academy of 17


### Sciences in the 2009 report. EPA's own Energy 18


### Star Portfolio Manager online tool already uses 19


### and promotes source

- based energy analysis. 20


### Let me give you an example of why this is 21


### so critical. I'll use the application of 22

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### residential water heating to make the point. The 1


### typical tank

- style natural gas water heater 2


### consumes about 27 million BTU annually. Its 3



### electric c ounterpart consumes nearly 50 million 4


### BTU per year, nearly twice the energy. 5


### Its electric counterpart requires

-- 6


### excuse me. The natural gas unit emits CO2 at 7



### less than half the rate of an electric unit. In 8


### terms of energy costs, the consumer using natur al 9


### gas pays $265 annually, while his neighbor 10


### relying on an electric unit pays $562. 11


### Interestingly, sales of residential 12


### electric water heaters over the last 13 years 13


### were running neck

- and

- neck with gas water 14


### heaters, and in fact exceeded sales of gas unit s 15


### three years running. Why? Let me suggest two 16


### reasons. One, the yellow labels on appliances 17


### only report site

- based efficiency figures. And 18


### two, many electric utilities are incentivizing 19


### consumers to purchase electric models. 20



### Because of the current met hodology of 21


### measuring efficiency only at the point of use, 22

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### yellow labels on appliances suggest to consumers 1



### that the electric water heater is more efficient 2


### and environmentally friendly. Nothing could be 3



### further from the truth. 4


### The same logic applies to o ther thermal 5


### applications such as space

- heating, cooking, and 6



### clothes

- drying. It also applies to larger 7


### commercial and industrial applications such as 8


### combined heat and power. 9


### We owe it to the consuming public to 10


### properly inform them. And if incentives a re to 11


### be employed by utility companies, they should be 12


### offered such that consumers are purchasing the 13


### most efficient, environmentally friendly, and 14



### cost

- effective appliances, again using the full 15



### fuel

- cycle methodology. 16


### In fact, it is past time to create a new 17


### appliance labeling program, perhaps moving to 18


### green labels, which could display true efficiency 19


### using the full fuel cycle and quantify the 20


### appliance's actual carbon footprint. 21



### In addition to what I've shared here 22

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### verbally this afternoon, I've attached a couple 1


### of illustrations that I would respectfully ask be 2



### included in the record. 3


### And on behalf of the Gas Authority, I 4


### wish to thank the EPA for conducting these public 5


### hearings. We're grateful for the opportunity to 6


### share our thoughts on the matter. 7



### M S. KEMKER: Thank you. 8


### MR. STRIPPELHOFF: Thank you. 9


### MS. KEMKER: Questions? 10


### [No audible response.] 11


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 12


### We'll make sure that gets in the record. 13


### Our next two speakers are Irene Barton 14


### and Chandresh Ladva. And if I mispronounced 15


### that, I 'm sorry. 16


### [Pause.] 17


### MS. KEMKER: Ms. Barton, if you'll begin 18


### when you're ready. 19


### MS. BARTON: Thank you. Good afternoon. 20


### My name is Irene Barton, and I'm a resident of 21


### Cobb County, Georgia, and a member of the 22

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### Leadership Board of Mothers and Others for Cle an 1


### Air, a regional partnership of leading public 2


### health, environmental, and child advocacy 3


### organizations dedicated to improving air quality. 4


### We educate the public about the impact of 5


### air quality on ourselves, our children, and our 6



### communities. I thank the EPA for this 7


### opportunity to present my comments on the 8


### proposed Clean Power Plan. I am here today to 9


### speak about the health effects of carbon 10


### pollution on children. 11



### I am the mother of two school

- aged 12


### children, and I'm fortunate that neither one 13



### suffer fr om asthma and both are in overall good 14


### health. However, that does not give me the 15


### proverbial hall pass from being a concerned 16


### citizen and an advocate, not just for my family, 17


### but for others in my community who may not have 18


### the opportunity to share their s tory with you. 19


### Unregulated carbon pollution hurts us all 20


### because it contributes to global climate 21


### disruption, leading to rising temperatures and 22

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### more air pollution. 1


### Children are especially vulnerable, 2


### because their lungs grow long after they are 3


### born. Eig hty percent of a child's tiny air sacs 4


### develop after birth and are not fully developed 5


### until they reach adulthood. They breathe at a 6


### higher rate than adults and spend more time 7


### outdoors engaged in vigorous physical activity. 8


### The EPA's proposed limits on c arbon 9


### pollution from power plants is a serious 10


### commitment to address this serious public health 11


### challenge of our day. Power plants remain the 12


### largest single source of carbon pollution 13


### emissions that are changing our climate in ways 14


### that currently threaten the health of millions of 15


### Americans and thousands of Georgians. 16


### Carbon emissions from power plants set 17


### the stage for warmer temperatures, which can lead 18


### to ozone formation. Community health studies 19


### point to serious effects from year

- round exposure 20



### to ozo ne, especially for children. 21


### One recent study from the Northeast 22

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### concluded that living just four years in a region 1


### with high levels of ozone and other related co

2


### pollutants was associated with diminished lung 3


### function and frequent reports of respiratory 4



### sy mptoms. 5


### Cobb, Fulton, DeKalb, Douglas, Gwinnett, 6


### and Rockdale Counties, with an estimated 7


### population of close to 3.5 million, all posted 8


### grades of F for ozone levels in the American Lung 9


### Association's State of the Air 2014 report. 10


### As a mother, I'm concerne d about my 11


### children's health and their future health. My 12


### children spend a fair amount of time outdoors 13


### with their activities, including marching band 14


### and soccer. I myself run outdoors four to five 15


### times a week. I'm worried about the earth my 16



### children wi ll inherit, especially with hotter 17


### summers making it more likely we will have highly 18


### polluted days. 19


### The National Oceanic and Atmospheric 20


### Administration reports that June 2014 was the 21


### globe's warmest in 134 years of recordkeeping. 22

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### Indeed, the entire first half of 2014 has been 1


### warm. According to another international agency, 2



### June marks the third month in a row of record 3


### high temperatures. 4


### In addition, the newly released National 5


### Climate Assessment Report asserts that ground

6


### level ozone is projected to incr ease in the 7


### Southeast, leading to increases in respiratory 8


### and cardiovascular illnesses, including emphysema 9



### and asthma. 10



### We are now faced with the fact that the 11


### quality of our air is negatively impacting 12


### children who are otherwise healthy. 13



### I am fortunate t o be able to spend a 14


### significant amount of time volunteering in 15


### schools and interacting with parents, teachers, 16


### and other faculty members. I mentioned 17


### advocating for children. One in ten children in 18


### Georgia have asthma, and African American 19



### children are more than twice as likely as white 20



### children to have asthma. 21


### Children who are ill have higher 22

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### absenteeism rates. They have difficulty 1


### focusing, mastering new material, and struggle 2


### academically. Simply put, a child who cannot 3



### breathe cannot learn. He or she struggles to 4


### complete homework, prepare for tests, complete 5


### projects, and often cannot participate in 6



### extracurricular activities that lead to a well

7



### rounded student. 8


### Georgia's high school graduation rate was 9


### 71.5 percent in 2013, certainly nothing to b rag 10


### about. But our children deserve every 11


### opportunity to learn, including environmental 12


### opportunities to graduate and to be contributing 13



### members of our communities. 14



### When scientific research tells us that 15


### the health of our communities is being impacted 16


### by something that we have the power to change, we 17


### have a moral obligation to protect our children 18


### and future generations. 19


### The EPA's plan to cap carbon pollution 20


### from power plants is the fastest way to make our 21


### air cleaner and protect our children's health. I 22

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### urge the EPA to set a final standard within the 1


### year. Anything less shortchanges our children, 2


### our health, and our future. 3


### Thank you. 4


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 5



### Mr. Ladva. 6


### MR. LADVA: So, good afternoon. My name 7



### is Chandresh Ladva. That's C

- h

- a

- n

- d

- r

- e

- s

- h L

8



### a

- d

- v

- a. 9



### I'm a doctoral candidate in Environmental 10


### Health Sciences at Emory University, and study 11


### air pollution as my dissertation work. And I 12



### also hold a Master's of Public Health and 13


### Epidemiology from Yale University. 14


### So, these experiences have kin d of 15


### compelled me to go into this direction of 16


### studying air pollution for a variety of reasons. 17


### I was born in the Central Valley of California. 18


### It is not known to have the cleanest air quality 19


### in the nation; in fact, where I grew up and spent 20


### 18 years of my life ranks highly

-- in fact, I 21


### think the worst air pollution in the United 22

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### States year after year. Good old Bakersfield, 1



### California. 2


### Now, I left. I consider myself a little 3


### fortunate. But my parents are still there, and 4


### they're aging. 5



### What I've not iced from even after I've 6


### left that the droughts that California faces have 7


### gotten worse. They're regular. They happen 8


### periodically, and they're not surprising. But 9


### they have consistently gotten worse. And these 10


### droughts have left to drier areas and dr ier 11


### seasons, where we have more wildfires. 12



### And what does this make? For an area 13


### that, like Bakersfield, California, that always 14


### has had poor air quality based on its location 15


### and where it is in the basin, it creates really 16


### challenging air quality for peo ple like my 17


### parents, who are in their 70s, and even though 18


### without having asthma, find it difficult to go 19


### out for a walk, which their cardiologists 20



### recommend. 21


### So, it's been something that I thought I 22

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### had left behind. But I moved here to Georgia. 1



### And I fi nd out that, three years ago when I moved 2


### here, Georgia was also in a drought. And 3


### according to their records, it was the longest 4


### drought that they've had in the

-- since they've 5



### recorded it. 6


### So, clearly this is something, these are 7


### changes that are happe ning within my short 8


### lifespan, things that you would expect to happen 9


### over long geologic time scales, but we're 10


### observing things much more quickly, and through 11


### anecdotal patterns that people can just tell you 12



### about. 13


### So, regulating carbon emissions from 14



### pow er generation, which is a very large source 15


### that people have been testifying time and time 16


### again today, and overall improving the grid 17


### efficiency works toward reducing our human impact 18


### on climate change. Focusing on the key resource 19



### of carbon emissions no t only provides the use of 20



### -- an efficient use of resources against

-- well, 21


### towards reducing our carbon footprint, but also 22

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### provides a platform for innovation. 1


### So this is the second point I really 2


### wanted to bring out. Industry and academic 3



### scientists hav e been working on climate change

4


### related science for a long time now. And 5


### imposing a regulation on carbon emissions and 6


### capping them should galvanize research in both 7


### sectors to work towards a singular aspect of a 8


### very complex problem on air pollution exp osures. 9


### And these problems impact both the 10


### environment and immediate human health. So, with 11


### great successes that we've had with the NAAQS, 12


### the National Ambient Air Quality Standards, you 13


### say, "Okay. In 10 years, let's try to meet this 14



### level." And what h appens is that we beat it. 15


### And we lower the NAAQS again, and we go ahead and 16


### we try to beat them again. 17


### I think this, having a carbon emissions 18


### cap, is a step that will follow in the same 19


### pattern. We will have an opportunity to innovate 20


### while focusing ou r attention specifically on 21


### greenhouse gases like CO2 and particulate matter 22

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### emissions from power facilities. 1


### And this proposition is actually a boon 2


### for Georgia. We have great scientific resources 3


### available to us. There's Emory, Georgia Tech, 4



### there's Ge orgia State, Georgia Power, even. 5


### There's science everywhere happening here. 6


### So, to galvanize and to really focus all 7


### of this intellectual power that this region has 8


### towards reducing carbon emissions will not only 9


### provide incentives for people like me to stay in 10


### Georgia and to work in Georgia in these 11


### capacities, but in general, contribute to expand 12


### the scientific capital of the region. 13


### So, I'd like to thank you for allowing me 14


### to speak to you today. And, yeah, that's it. 15


### Thank you. 16


### MS. KEMKER: Thank yo u both. 17


### Our next two speakers are Angela Garrone 18



### and Steve Halsted. 19


### And I would remind you to hold your 20


### applause, because we will be trying to move 21


### through and give everyone an opportunity to 22

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### speak. 1


### [Pause.] 2



### MS. KEMKER: Ms. Garrone. 3



### MS. GARRONE: It's Ga rrone. 4



### MS. KEMKER: Garrone. I'm sorry. 5



### MS. GARRONE: It's Italian. 6


### [Laughter.] 7


### MS. KEMKER: You may begin when you're 8


### ready. 9


### MS. GARRONE: Thank you. Good afternoon. 10


### My name is Angela Garrone. That's G

- a

- r

- r

- o

- n

- e. 11


### And I'm an attorney with the Southe rn Alliance 12


### for Clean Energy based out of Knoxville, 13



### Tennessee. 14


### I'd like to thank you for having us, 15


### giving us this opportunity on two days to speak 16


### to you about the Clean Power Plan. 17


### Now, our organization works to promote 18


### clean energy solutions for the So utheast that 19


### help protect our families from the dangers of 20



### carbon

- intensive forms of energy production like 21



### coal

- fired power plants, and to help build a new 22

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### clean energy economy that will bring much

- needed 1


### jobs to our region. 2


### And for this reason, we thank EPA for 3


### including renewable energy and energy efficiency 4


### resources as compliance options in the proposed 5



### Clean Power Plan. 6



### In order to reduce our nation's carbon 7


### emissions, we need a creative approach that takes 8


### advantage of the carbon

- saving energy 9



### techno logies that are already available, like 10


### solar, wind, and energy efficiency resources. 11



### Business as usual won't cut it. Just as 12


### the Pony Express and landline phone companies had 13


### to face facts that their industry is antiquated, 14


### so much now the coal industry. 15


### I'd like to thank EPA for doing something 16


### also that Congress has failed to do, and that is 17


### set meaningful limits on carbon emissions from 18


### our nation's power sector. We've heard a lot of 19


### pushback from coal

- dependent states and industry 20



### that EPA has overst epped its reach in 21


### establishing the Clean Power Plan, and that EPA 22

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### should have just left that job to Congress. 1


### Without pointing out the obvious, which 2


### is that our stagnant Congress is having a hard 3


### time passing any legislation, I'd like to 4


### recognize that E PA is regulating carbon emissions 5


### using the Clean Air Act, which was created by an 6


### act of Congress back when Congress worked 7


### together to address important issues like air 8


### pollution. 9


### The great amount of input that EPA 10


### solicited from the private sector befor e even 11


### proposing the Clean Power Plan is a great example 12


### of regulators working with industry to create a 13


### flexible solution to a huge problem like climate 14


### change. The rule gives states maximum 15


### flexibility in meeting carbon emission limits 16


### that were especia lly created to fit each state's 17


### unique energy mix. 18


### Now, the Southeast disproportionately 19


### contributes to national carbon pollution levels 20



### due to its abundance of coal

- fired power plants, 21



### as the Southeast is home to almost 270 coal units 22

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### that collectively em it over 366 million tons of 1


### carbon dioxide annually. 2


### Unlike other states across the country 3


### like Vermont and Washington, Southeastern states 4


### have not been as willing to reduce their reliance 5



### on coal

- fired energy and make way for the current 6



### available forms of clean energy production. 7



### We have seen some of our utilities take 8


### the lead in retiring coal plants and building 9


### new, cleaner generation sources like our own 10


### Tennessee Valley Authority. But many are wasting 11


### ratepayer money to prop up old, inefficient, 12



### d irty coal plants. 13


### It is our hope that the Clean Power Plan 14


### can serve as a tool to push states to recognize 15



### the realities of coal

- fired power. It threatens 16


### our health, endangers our waterways, increases 17


### climate change pollution, and is no longer the 18


### cheape st source of energy. 19


### We should embrace clean energy sources 20


### that can provide cost

- effective reliable power to 21


### our region and bring jobs to communities that 22

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### desperately need them. We are also hopeful that 1


### the Southeast will take advantage of the regional 2



### c ompliance plan that EPA has provided so that we 3


### can all work together across our states to come 4


### up with a plan that helps our region grow as a 5


### leader in clean energy production while also 6


### decreasing our region's contribution to carbon 7


### pollution. 8



### As a nativ e Southerner and proudly 9


### hailing from Memphis, Tennessee, I'd love to see 10


### my region become part of the solution to climate 11


### change rather than part of the problem. 12


### Thank you. 13


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 14



### Mr. Halsted. 15



### REV. HALSTED: Good afternoon. I'm the 16



### Rever end Steve Halsted, and I'm Pastor of 17


### Community United Church of Christ in Raleigh, 18



### North Carolina. 19



### And I'm here in Atlanta for two reasons. 20


### One is to provide testimony today as a faith 21


### leader and as clergy representative of North 22

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### Carolina Interfaith Power and Light, which is a 1


### statewide organization addressing the ecological 2


### injustice issues of climate change as a faith

3



### based initiative. 4



### The second reason I'm here is that I 5


### dedicate my testimony today to my newest 6


### granddaughter. She is Emory Olivia Halste d, born 7


### June 30th, just recently, which also happens to 8


### be my birthday, and I turn 65. I have a picture 9



### of her. 10


### [Laughter.] 11


### REV. HALSTED: Shouldn't all good 12


### grandparents do that? Carry a picture around? 13


### Anyways, I dedicate this testimony to her 14



### and all other children, future generations who 15


### will be affected by climate change. They need 16


### our generation to stand up for them and to ask 17


### for reasonable, rational safeguards towards 18


### carbon pollution that the EPA is doing. So I 19


### thank you for that. 20


### And you can i mplement these, and you can 21


### ensure that they are able to mitigate the harmful 22

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### effects of carbon pollution. 1



### The North Carolina Interfaith Power and 2


### Light program is part of the North Carolina 3


### Council of Churches. In this role, we provide 4



### access to the coun cil's membership of over 6,200 5


### congregations. The North Carolina Council of 6


### Churches is comprised of 25 distinct judicatories 7



### from 17 different denominations and over 1.5 8


### million people. And so, we're here with their 9


### support today. 10



### The Interfaith Power a nd Light group also 11



### is affiliated in 40 different states across the 12


### country, with over 15,000 congregations that are 13



### affiliated with it. 14


### As people of faith, we feel we're called 15


### to care for God's creation and God's people, 16


### especially the most vulnerable am ong us. And we 17


### have a moral obligation to address the profound 18


### impacts of the way that we produce and use energy 19


### in the world today. 20


### In addition to protecting our climate, 21


### curbing pollution from power plants offers many 22

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### other benefits. We've heard about some of those, 1


### asthma and other health benefits, which will save 2


### lives, reduce health risks, those suffering from 3


### heart disease and respiratory ailments. 4


### My 90

- year

- old mother suffers from these 5


### kinds of lung conditions because of pollution in 6



### the environm ent. And I have another 7


### granddaughter who has asthma, severe asthma at 8


### times induced from this particular

-- from those 9



### toxic wastes. 10



### So these are real concerns that we need 11



### to address and that we will address in the church 12


### community as people of faith, b ecause they impact 13


### people's lives. And we're here to support and 14


### protect them. 15


### As the United Church of Christ pastor and 16


### clergy representative to N.C. Interfaith Power 17


### and Light, I'm really proud that our Executive 18



### Minister for Justice and Witness Ministr ies in 19


### the United Church of Christ, Reverend Linda 20


### Jaramillo, publicly proclaimed in these words: 21


### "The United Church of Christ applauds the Obama 22

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### administration's efforts to take real action on 1


### climate change. 2


### "A proposal like the one introduced by 3



### the EP A has been a long time coming, and it is 4


### just the first of many steps that need to be 5


### taken by the U.S. Government and big business to 6


### begin to curtail the damage that has already been 7


### done to our precious earth." 8


### A sidelight to that, the United Church of 9


### Christ is the first major denomination to de

10


### invest from fossil fuels. And that's a big 11


### thing. And we've just heard about the World 12


### Council of Churches doing the same thing. 13


### President Obama and the EPA are acting on 14


### our moral obligation to address unlimi ted carbon 15


### pollution coming from the nation's power plants, 16


### which is the single largest source of global 17


### warming pollution in our country. 18


### The new standards will help usher in 19


### clean energy solutions like improved efficiency, 20


### along with solar power and wind power, things 21



### that the North Carolina Interfaith Power and 22

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### Light congregations have already been pushing for 1


### and actually implementing. Congregations are 2


### putting solar panels on their properties in order 3


### to help to deal with this issue. 4


### Emerging wind and solar companies have 5


### been sort of like a David and Goliath, in 6


### Biblical terms, in the struggle against the well

7


### funded coal and gas industries. And these new 8


### standards will create a dynamic towards cleaner 9


### energy. It will have that kind of effect. 10



### These days, faith and science are close 11


### allies. The science is clear and peer

- proven 12


### that global warming and climate change in our 13



### time is human

- induced by our tremendous emissions 14


### of carbon into the air, causing carbon pollution 15


### and the greenhouse effect. An d science tells us 16


### this reality, even though some would try and put 17



### their heads in the sand. But we know this 18


### through science. It's clear. 19



### We want to also use the role of the faith 20


### community to give us the moral imperative to 21


### change our lifestyles and to safeguard our 22

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### environment for future generations and the 1


### welfare of all of humanity. It's not just the 2


### people in the U.S.; this affects the world

-- 3



### MS. KEMKER: Reverend Halsted. 4



### REV. HALSTED:

-- and all of God's 5



### creation. 6


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. If you'll wrap 7


### up, that will be great. 8


### REV. HALSTED: Okay. Just a couple more 9


### things. 10


### So, I just want to get across that 11


### climate change is a moral issue. And the faith 12


### community is the community that's raising this as 13


### a moral issue that we need to address, and we 14



### need to do it fast. And we need these standards 15


### put in place in order to do that. They will be a 16


### great help. 17


### So, thank you all for doing that, and 18


### thank you for allowing me to speak. 19


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 20


### Questions? 21


### [No audible response.] 22

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### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 1


### Our next speakers are the Reverend Gerald 2


### Durley and Jackie Carter. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MS. KEMKER: Reverend, if you'll begin 5


### when you're ready. 6


### REV. DURLEY: I was a little shook up 7


### when I saw you stop that last preacher. But I'll 8



### be shor t. 9


### [Laughter.] 10



### MS. KEMKER: That's a first for me. 11


### REV. DURLEY: First of all, thank you 12


### very much for the few minutes that you've allowed 13


### me to speak today. I'm Reverend Dr. Gerald 14


### Durley, Pastor Emeritus of Providence Missionary 15


### Baptist Church, former D ean of Clark Atlanta 16


### University here in Georgia, and also the former 17



### Director of the Health Promotion Resource Center 18



### and Morehouse School of Medicine. 19


### I joined up with Dr. King in 1959 and 20


### been in the movement for almost 54 years now on 21



### movements where ci vil and human rights issues are 22

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### concerned. And so today, we come to really share 1


### from our perspective before the EPA. 2


### The people suffering from climate change 3


### are often overshadowed by images of polar bears 4


### and vanishing ice caps in the public psyche. 5



### Th eir faces can be found not in the Arctic or off 6


### the distant future, but in our schools and in our 7



### churches and in our homes and all across America. 8


### In the wake of climate change, which 9



### scientists believe contribute to the extreme 10



### weather like Hurricane Kat rina and Sandy, I and 11


### other faith leaders began recognizing our moral 12


### obligation to act and increase the level of 13


### awareness about the devastating effects of 14


### climate change. 15


### While some, including lawmakers, continue 16


### to deny its existence despite overwhelmin g 17


### scientific evidence, climate change has proven to 18


### be one of the greatest threats of our time

-- 19



### MS. CARTER: Slow down. 20



### REV. DURLEY: Hm? 21



### MS. CARTER: Slow down! Continue. 22

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### REV. DURLEY: Why are you telling me to 1



### slow down? 2



### MS. CARTER: She did it. 3



### REV. DURLEY: Oh. 4


### MS. CARTER: Keep preaching! 5


### [Laughter.] 6



### REV. DURLEY: First time I've had a 7


### female deacon stop me in the middle of saying 8



### what I want to do. 9


### [Laughter.] 10


### REV. DURLEY: Help me. 11


### [Laughter.] 12


### REV. DURLEY: The American Lung 13



### Association finds tha t more than 20.2 million 14


### people in poverty are living in areas that 15


### receive at least one failing grade for its air 16


### pollutants, and 4.5 million in poverty are 17


### breathing air that fails all three of the ALA's 18


### air pollution tests. 19


### Can you imagine? Sixty

- eight percent of 20



### African Americans live within 30 miles of a coal 21


### plant, dangerously close for the one in six 22

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### African American kids that has asthma, compared 1


### to one in ten nationwide. Filthy air streaming 2


### from power plants increase risk of asthma 3


### attacks, whic h harms black children at a much 4


### higher rate. 5


### According to the United States Department 6


### of Health and Human Services Office of Minority 7


### Health, black children are in fact 3.6 times more 8


### likely to visit the emergency room for asthma as 9


### compared to white chi ldren. 10



### When communities were threatened when we 11


### were back in the movement, we organized, 12


### strategized, and mobilized to ensure that our 13



### voices were heard and that our cause was 14


### recognized. Today, our health, economic 15


### stability, and lifestyles are being sev erely 16


### challenged because of carbon pollution, extreme 17


### climate changes, and unusual weather patterns. 18


### That's why I and countless other faith 19


### leaders across America support EPA's Clean Power 20


### Plan, which would place the first limits on 21


### carbon pollution from p ower plants. The plan 22

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### will cut carbon pollution by 30 percent by 2030, 1



### and that will be below 22.2

-- 25 levels, 2


### providing up to 93 billion in climate and public 3



### health benefits. 4


### The EPA projects these limits will 5


### prevent up to 6,600 premature deaths, up to 6


### 150,000 asthma attacks in children, and up to 7


### 490,000 missed work days and schooldays in 2013 8


### [sic]. 9


### It will also, if implemented, will 10


### prevent 3,300 heart attacks and up to 2,800 11


### hospital admissions. I don't say these figures 12


### for political fodder

-- w e play the game of 13


### politics here and there

-- but to stress the need 14


### for immediate attention to limiting carbon 15


### pollution in our society. 16


### Calling for moral and ethical 17


### accountability for human dignity and lies is 18


### nothing new, but those of us who faced the same 19


### neglect when they said that we couldn't vote, 20


### when they said that we couldn't eat at the lunch 21


### counter, when they said that we couldn't purchase 22

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### a home anywhere we wanted to

-- we're back to 1


### that. This is a political and a moral issue. 2



### We believe tha t, as we do now, that these 3


### are constitutional human rights. Cutting carbon 4


### pollution by 30 percent by 2030 is a way of 5


### demonstrating that we

-- that the right to clean 6


### air and water is a civil and a human rights 7



### issue. 8


### Considering the long

- term health ef fects 9


### and rising funeral expenses of millions of people 10


### living within cities and close to these plants 11


### and refineries is more important than considering 12


### what it might cost industry to take steps. They 13


### need to get the plants cleaned up, put a little 14



### money now, because funeral costs are rising. 15


### So, I thank you today for allowing us to 16


### come. We want you to stay the course. Don't 17


### back up. Don't bend down. Don't turn around. 18


### We need you. We will be there for you, and any 19



### movement that's ever had its salt always started 20


### with the people, started with the facts, and 21


### faith and science are not in opposition to each 22

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### other. 1


### We're working together, and we appreciate 2


### this opportunity. And tell Sister McCarthy, 3


### "Stay in there, and don't turn around." 4



### MS. CARTER: C an I get a "Amen"? 5


### [Chorus of "Amen!"] 6


### REV. DURLEY: Thank you, Deacon. 7


### MS. CARTER: I apologize for 8


### interrupting. 9


### MS. KEMKER: Any questions from the 10


### panel? 11


### [No audible response.] 12


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 13


### REV. DURLEY: You're certainly welcome. 14



### MS. KEMKER : Ms. Carter. 15



### MS. CARTER: Yes? 16


### MS. KEMKER: You may begin. 17


### MS. CARTER: Okay. Okay. Thank you for 18


### speaking before me. If anyone, I'm glad it's 19


### you. Okay. 20


### So, good afternoon. My name is 21


### Jacquelyn, J

- a

- c

- q

- u

- e

- l

- y

- n, not l

- i

- n

- e, 22

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### Carter, C

- a

- r

- t

- e

- r. 1



### Next. I am an intern for the Sierra 2


### Student Coalition through the Sierra Club, a 3



### grass

- roots organization and nonprofit which 4


### truly is a people

- over

- profit bipartisan 5



### coalition. 6



### I am also a student from St. Louis 7


### University, a Jesuit Catholic, or so

- call ed 8


### Jesuit Catholic, institution in St. Louis, 9


### Missouri. I am also a student in solidarity with 10


### WashU Students Against Peabody, which had a 17

- 11


### day sit

- in this last April. 12


### First of all, you all look as though you 13


### haven't laughed in awhile

-- I wrote this do wn

-- 14


### but being in politics and all. So, please, help 15


### me out here and let me see you smile. 16


### [Laughter.] 17


### MS. CARTER: Wow, those are so kind of 18


### genuine. 19


### [Laughter.] 20


### MS. CARTER: Okay. Thanks. Beautiful, 21


### and now it's time to get serious. 22

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### I would like to t hank the Environmental 1


### Protection Agency for giving young citizens 2


### without suits, so to speak, like me, the 3


### privilege of speaking here today. I truly 4


### respect the EPA and your mission to address and 5


### improve public health in America, while 6


### supporting a stro ng social and environmentally 7


### just economy and therefore addressing 8


### socioeconomic inequality in the United States. 9


### Please notice the specific words I used, 10


### such as "privilege." I emphasize this word to 11


### remind you of what you already know, that though 12



### we l ive in a democracy, not all populations are 13


### fairly accounted for due to having less 14


### privilege, less money, and less documentation 15



### than some. 16


### The point I'm getting at here is this. I 17


### am a young person, a woman, who may have children 18


### in the future, whatever , who supports the 19


### proposed Clean Power Plan, or the initiative, at 20



### least. 21


### I support its framework to make 22

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### significant progress in the states, but I must, 1


### of course, as an environmentalist, need to admit 2


### that this plan does not do much overall in 3


### solving the problem of climate disruption by 4



### itself. 5


### That being said, it is still a step. It 6


### is the first of its kind in American history, 7


### which ya'll know. And so thank you for that. 8


### Thank you, and do not follow, quote, the advice 9


### of a privileged public servic e commissioner of 10


### Georgia, who told you, "Leave us alone." 11


### [Laughter.] 12



### MS. CARTER: Because, next page, I come 13


### from Missouri, a state whose legislature, and 14


### thus its state constitution, is heavily 15


### influenced by the privilege, the power, and the 16


### money of Pe abody Energy and Arch Coal. And it's 17


### no secret just this month Governor Nixon passed a 18


### state amendment that is in favor of coal, not its 19


### people, especially not its people of low income, 20


### the youth, the elderly, and racially 21


### discriminated against communitie s

-- so, St. 22

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### Louis itself. 1


### The mandating

-- your mandating power, in 2


### fact, is needed when justice is being sacrificed 3


### and exchanged for corporate special interests, 4


### for example, Peabody Energy and its allies. In 5



### Missouri

-- and yes, I'm aware that we're i n the 6


### Southeast. I come from Tennessee, so

-- but it's 7



### the EPA. You're federal. 8


### Okay. Moving on. In Missouri

-- okay, 9


### you're wealthy. Anyways, in Missouri, Ameren 10


### Utility Corporation uses coal for about 75 11


### percent of its electricity

-- see, this is

-- 12


### whatever. You already know this. 13


### REV. DURLEY: You got to slow down. 14


### [Laughter.] 15


### MS. CARTER: Stop laughing. 16


### While the national average is less than 17


### that, less than 75 percent, and dropping. 18


### Until October 16th, you will hear an 19


### overwhelming and an overpo wering voice from those 20


### with a lot of privilege, a lot of money, and a 21


### lot of power. But remember, your agency is

-- 22

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### who your agency is here to protect. Remember our 1


### environment, because we all share the same United 2


### States, same environment. 3



### Remember our environmentally and socially 4


### sustainable goals that came before American 5


### legislative

-- whatever

-- executive council, or 6


### ALEC, for short, was implemented in all 50 states 7


### with billionaire corporations

-- that's not 8


### beeping

-- corporations funding their p lans 9


### against action on climate change, such as Peabody 10



### Energy. 11


### And I don't need statistics to explain 12


### how dirty coal is. And fossil fuel and nuclear 13


### industries and their political allies can't buy 14



### statistics that are not true. 15


### So, my last words here

-- we , the 16


### American people, not just environmentalists, but 17


### also people who promote justice, want and need 18


### this initiative, not because we think it will be 19


### easy, but because it is necessary for our future, 20


### and so I can see you smile again. 21


### Thank you. 22

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### MS. KEMKER : Thank you. 1


### Questions? 2


### MS. CARTER: Questions? No. 3


### MS. KEMKER: Our next speakers are Keith 4



### Thomas and Maribel Balbin. 5


### [Pause.] 6


### MR. THOMAS: Should I let this young lady 7


### go first? 8



### MS. BALBIN: Never. 9


### [Simultaneous conversation.] 10



### MS. KEMKER: Mr. Thomas , would you begin 11


### when you're ready? 12


### MR. THOMAS: Okay. Good afternoon. I am 13


### Keith Thomas, Business Manager of the Atlanta and 14


### North Georgia Building Construction Trades 15


### Council. I am speaking to your committee today 16


### on behalf of nearly 25,000 union mem bers, their 17


### families, and all of the skilled construction 18


### workers that help promote Georgia's economy each 19


### and every day. 20


### A great number of skilled construction 21


### workers find employment on power facilities and 22

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### are at risk for job losses under the proposed 1



### r ule changes by the EPA. 2


### Over the past five years or so, the 3


### construction industry itself has been devastated 4


### due to our economy. In addition, we are starting 5


### to come out of the recession, power plants are 6


### now being scheduled to close. The stoppage of 7



### the se facilities will generate a harmful effect 8


### on jobs, workers, their family, and again our 9



### economy. 10


### Here in Georgia, it is becoming a set 11


### pattern to close many of the power plant 12


### facilities that once were places for gainful 13


### employment for hundreds of const ruction tradesmen 14


### and women. Plants such as Arkwright in Macon, 15


### Atkinson and Jack McDonough in Smyrna, Georgia, 16


### had already gone

-- Plant Harlee Branch in 17


### Milledgeville and Plant Mitchell in Albany

-- 18


### excuse me a second. I've got too many pages 19



### here. 20



### [Pa use.] 21


### MR. THOMAS: Those two plants are 22

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### scheduled to be decommissioned, closed, or torn 1



### down in the near future. 2


### Currently, the EPA does not give state 3


### credit for the reductions that have already been 4


### made through coal and other fossil plant 5



### retirement. T hey do, however, tout the 6


### reductions from 2005 levels in the press. The 7


### EPA's rules does not give states credit for the 8



### reductions made since then. 9


### The EPA should recognize those reductions 10


### rather than forcing even greater cuts in the 11


### future. The EPA reg ulations for power plants 12


### here in Georgia and across the United States are 13


### forcing significant job loss, not only for the 14


### construction trades, but for many other sectors 15


### of working communities that support those 16



### facilities. 17


### Job losses from these power plan t 18


### closures affect the importance of jobs in a 19


### strong economy. We are concerned the EPA's rules 20


### fail to strike the right balance between 21


### important and sometimes competing goals for jobs 22

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### in a strong economy. 1



### Our construction trades have the same 2


### goals as th e EPA. We support efforts and 3


### procedures to ensure there is clean air and water 4


### that our employees and our communities are 5


### protected. We also understand the need to 6


### respond to the threat of climate change to 7


### protect current and future generations here in 8


### Georgia. 9


### Over the past two decades, Georgia Power 10


### and Southern Company have gone to extreme 11


### measures to upgrade and implement environmentally 12


### friendly components to their existing facilities. 13


### These are goals that are important to them and 14


### ensure a fair, better quality of life for all 15



### here in the South. 16



### We understand that the EPA's efforts are 17


### to make our environment safe. However, the EPA 18


### has to recognize that a safe environment alone 19


### cannot provide a good quality of life for all 20



### Americans. Access to af fordable options that 21


### provide a safe and productive means for the 22

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### environment are necessary. 1


### We believe that Georgia Power and 2


### Southern Company are working to create economical 3


### growth and jobs for skilled tradesmen and women 4


### here in the South, while also p roviding reliable 5



### and cost

- efficiency energy that is affordable to 6



### workers and their families. 7


### The new movement to extract and produce 8


### power with natural gas known as "fracking" 9


### affects not only the quality air, but also 10



### creates measures of contamination i n the 11


### environment for existing water supplies. It is a 12


### toxic method of natural gas extraction that not 13


### only poisons water, but it generates cancer

14


### causing air emissions. 15


### Every step of the fracking process is 16


### dangerous. Chemicals can spill or seep into th e 17


### drinking water. Supplies in the generation of 18


### air pollution put communities at greater risk of 19


### disease such as cancer and asthma, and exposure 20


### to qualities of wastewater that would be dumped 21



### into the environment. 22

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### In closing, I would like for you to thin k 1


### about the comments I have made today and consider 2


### whether or not we should be attacking the coal 3


### industry. It seems like we are consenting to the 4


### transition and use of energy sources that will 5



### become some of the worse fabricators of future 6



### energy. 7



### New g eneration sources may become 8


### polluters of our environment and eliminate future 9


### jobs for future generations. I personally 10



### believe that I can withstand the sources and 11


### options of energy and power coming from coal 12


### rather than from those coming from the poiso ned 13


### fracturing process already underway across our 14



### country. 15


### I appreciate ya'll's time today. I know 16


### you got a tough job. It's not easy. But I hope 17


### that you will consider both sides, and try to 18


### bring everybody to the table in making this 19



### decision so we a ll win with it. 20


### Thank you so much. 21


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 22

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### Ms. Balbin. 1



### MS. BALBIN: Good afternoon. Buenas 2


### tardes. Maribel Balbin, M

- a

- r

- i

- b

- e

- l B

- a

- l

- b

- i

3


### n. My name is Maribel Balbin, President of the 4


### League of Women Voters of Miami Dade County, 5



### spea king today on behalf of the League of Women 6



### Voters of Florida and all of our members. We 7


### speak in one voice with the national league in 8


### support of the Clean Power Plan rule. 9


### I thank you for the opportunity presented 10


### to me today to testify on this most imp ortant of 11



### issues. 12


### I came to this country 46 years ago and 13


### lived in Miami Dade County ever since. My family 14



### fled the Cuban Communist Revolution. As an exile 15


### in Miami, I feel once again threatened that I may 16


### be forced from my home. This time, I'm being 17



### th reatened by a slow

- building environmental 18



### disaster. 19


### It might take decades, but eventually, 20


### rising sea levels may make living in Miami 21


### impossible. My 78

- year

- old mother believes that 22

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### exile will be experienced by her grandchildren. 1


### This will be, this time, climate

- change exile. 2


### As a public administrator, I've spent 3


### most of my professional life working for agencies 4


### and projects focused on the protection of the 5


### very fragile South Florida environment. My years 6


### in the South Florida Water Management District 7



### al low me to see firsthand the intricate processes 8


### that are involved in keeping our region dry and 9


### protecting the Everglades. A system of canals 10



### and flood

- control structures work 24

- 7 moving 11



### fresh water out to sea. 12


### I've experienced the impact of flooding 13



### ass ociated with torrential downpours and tropical 14



### storms. I have walked in knee

- high water that 15


### would sit for hours without any place to go. 16


### Emergency crews from various public agencies were 17


### brought in to pump this standing water out of 18



### low

- lying communitie s in Miami Dade, only to have 19



### it flood back in within a few hours. 20


### Massive pumps were eventually installed 21


### to protect two small cities where these problems 22

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### occurred repeatedly during the past decade. 1



### These small

- scale efforts may be the model for 2


### saving t he rest of the metropolitan region. 3


### I've witnessed the impacts of the full 4


### moon and high tide in Miami Beach. On a clear 5


### night, you can go out to a restaurant, enjoy 6


### dinner, and there would be water covering the 7


### sidewalks when you leave

-- not because the re has 8


### been a water main break, but because the ocean 9


### has backed up through the storm

- water drainage 10



### system. 11


### In recent months, we've seen the 12


### headlines and magazine covers about the South 13


### Florida region

-- "Miami, the next lost city of 14


### Atlantis"; "Why the city is doomed to drown"

-- 15


### and the classification of ground zero. 16


### Florida residents have become very 17


### familiarized with what climate change is and how 18


### it relates to our daily lives. A statewide poll 19


### conducted last week by the National Resources 20



### Defense C ouncil shows that 71 percent of 21


### Floridians believe that climate change is a 22

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### serious issue, and 77 percent specifically 1


### support this Clean Power Plan rule. 2


### We get it. Imagine

-- Florida getting 3


### something. 4


### [Laughter.] 5



### MS. BALBIN: And the Southeast Florida 6


### counties have developed a climate action plan 7



### that includes 110 recommendations. Conventional 8


### wisdom says, and we know that carbon emissions 9


### cause the earth's surface temperature to rise, 10



### and the oceans absorb most of this heat. 11


### We're listening to the sci entists. And 12


### they're very clear in their message. Sea

- level 13


### rise is linked to three primary factors, which 14


### are all included, induced by ongoing climate 15


### change. 16


### One, thermal expansion. When water heats 17


### up, it expands. About half of the past century's 18



### ri se in sea level is attributed to warmer ocean 19


### simply occupying more space. Number two, the 20


### melting the glaciers. And number three, the 21


### shrinking of polar ice caps. 22

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### In 2012, 47 scientists reported that 1


### Greenland and Antarctica are losing more than 2



### three t imes as much ice each year than they were 3


### in the 1990s. Reducing carbon emissions would 4


### have a direct effect on how hot our oceans get 5


### and how fast our glaciers and ice caps melt. 6


### I'm here today to tell you that we 7


### support EPA's Clean Power Plan rule and ask the 8



### rest of the nation to do the same. 9


### Thank you very much. 10


### [Pause.] 11


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 12


### MS. BALBIN: Thank you for the 13


### opportunity. 14


### MS. KEMKER: Our next speakers are Nina 15


### McCoy and Laura Turner

- Seidell. 16


### [Pause.] 17


### MS. McCOY: It's Nina McCoy

. 18


### MS. KEMKER: Nina. Thank you so much. 19



### MS. McCOY: N

- i

- n

- a

- M

- c

- C

- o

- y. 20


### I'm Nina McCoy. I'm from Inez, Kentucky. 21


### 1976, that was the first year that I had heard of 22

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### the greenhouse effect, is what we called it at 1


### the time. I heard it from a fellow college 2


### freshman. I was 18. 1979, Dr. Keeney told our 3


### environmental studies class about the coral, the 4


### sort of infighting between the scientific and 5


### political communities about the carbon dioxide 6



### studies that had been conducted since 1958. 7


### And then, of course, we went through the 8


### Reagan years, where it was just all about cow 9


### flatulence, and those pine trees were causing the 10



### acid rain. 11


### But in 1983, when I started teaching, I 12


### knew that it was a big part of my job to make 13


### sure that my biology students, my high scho ol 14


### biology students, became citizens who understood 15


### how important it was to protect the environment 16


### and to leave behind a better place than

-- 17


### instead of harming it. 18


### So we did cleanups. We did all sorts of 19


### things. And I taught global warming even when it 20



### wasn't in the textbooks. But the kids had all 21


### heard of it, and they were worried about those 22

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### polar icecaps. Even from 1984, they were worried 1


### about those polar icecaps. So it's not something 2



### new. 3


### Then in 2008, an environmental issues 4


### class, 17

- year

- old girl put her hands up to her 5


### ears and said, "I don't want to hear about global 6


### warming, and I don't want to watch An 7



### Inconvenient Truth." And that's when

-- she was 8


### almost in a panic attack. And I realized then 9


### the cruelty and the futility of trying to make 10


### education a way to solve a problem. 11


### I mean, really? We're going to let the 12


### babies fix this thing? I mean, we cannot leave 13


### it to the future generations. 14


### Now, the first class that I had are now 15



### in their 40s. And the first environmental club 16



### that I ha d is now in their 40s. They've not 17


### fixed the problem. But it's not because they 18


### don't care anymore. But it's because they don't 19


### have the resources or the time or the power. 20


### But you all do. You are the United 21


### States Environmental Protection Agency. An d the 22

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### kids who wore these T

- shirts in 2000 are waiting 1



### for the United States Environmental Protection 2


### Agency to do something. And the kids who wore 3



### these T

- shirts in 1990 are waiting for the United 4


### States Environmental Protection Agency to do 5


### something. 6



### A nd the whole world is waiting for the 7


### United States Environmental Protection Agency to 8


### do something. 9


### In 1961, John F. Kennedy put a challenge 10



### to the scientists of the United States. He 11


### wanted a man on the moon. Now, watching that for 12


### the eight years that it took them to get that man 13



### on the moon

-- eight years

-- watching that, the 14


### most exciting thing to me was watching the people 15


### buying the computers, the scientists and the 16


### technicians and the team. And they were so 17


### excited when something was happening. And they 18


### were so nervous when something was happening. 19


### And you know, we all remember, "Houston, 20


### we have a problem." That was that we know that 21


### Houston is what got them there. And I'm here to 22

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### tell you, I just think about what it would have 1


### been like if y ou looked in at those people who 2


### were working there, and some of them were like, 3


### "Eh, they'll never get that thing off the 4


### ground," or "Eh, we all know it's made of 5



### cheese." 6


### [Laughter.] 7


### MS. McCOY: And, but I'm here to tell 8


### you, Washington, you have a prob lem. The problem 9


### lies with your boots

- on

- the

- ground people. You 10


### have 17,000 employees. I've dealt with some of 11


### those people. And they don't know me. And some 12


### of them, they don't know you. And some of them 13



### don't know science. 14



### So where the education ne eds to be done, 15


### you need to pull in every one of those people, 16


### and you need to train them on what is climate 17


### change, what's the science behind it. And just 18


### make sure that every one of your employees knows 19


### the science and is fearless in presenting that 20



### sci ence to the community, not only to the CEO's 21


### and local corporate officials, but also to the 22

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### children who have been in my classroom for the 1


### last 30 years. 2


### Remember, the whole world is waiting. 3


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 4



### Ms. Seidell. 5



### MS. SEIDELL: Yes. I'm Lau ra Seidell. 6


### And I thank the EPA for inviting me here to give 7


### my support for the Clean Power Plan. 8



### I am a cofounder of Mothers and Others 9


### for Clean Air, with Stephanie Blank. In 2004, we 10


### came together not only because I'm a mother of 11


### three, but I was real ly concerned about the 12


### health effects of air pollution on our children. 13


### Mothers and Others is a program now of 14


### the American Lung Association of the Southeast 15


### and is a unique partnership of leading public 16


### health and child advocacy organizations. We work 17



### wi th an impressive array of partners and 18


### supporters from the PTA to pediatricians to 19


### scientists, many of whom have been here and given 20


### their testimonials today and will be here 21



### tomorrow. 22

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### EPA's Clean Power Plan will protect our 1


### public health immediately and i n the future. Of 2


### course, the proposed carbon pollution limits for 3


### existing power plants are overdue. There are 4


### standards for toxics, acid, gases, heavy metals, 5



### smog

- forming and soot

- forming emissions from 6


### power plants, and there should be standards for 7



### C O2 as well. 8


### EPA must protect our children and our 9


### communities from carbon pollution. Scientists 10


### warn that the buildup of carbon pollution will 11


### create warmer temperatures, which increase the 12


### risk of unhealthy ozone levels. 13


### Currently, millions of children a round 14


### the country have asthma attacks every year, and 15


### ozone pollution is a well

- known trigger. Any 16



### increases in ozone will mean more childhood 17


### asthma attacks and complications for those with 18


### lung disease. Additionally, children are more 19


### susceptible to th e health effects of air 20


### pollution because their lungs are developing and 21


### they breathe more air in per pound than adults, 22

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### and they spend a lot more time, hopefully, 1


### playing outside. 2



### The health benefits of the Clean Power 3


### Plan are significant. By 2030, as y ou've heard 4


### over and over again

-- and this is about saving 5


### lives. I think it's up to 6,600 lives will be 6


### saved, and 150,000 asthma attacks per year will 7


### be avoided by cleaning up the carbon pollution. 8


### But also, the good news is the new 9


### regulations will a lso prevent other contaminants 10


### and air pollutants, such as mercury and 11


### particulates and

-- I have to look, I have to 12



### look

-- nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide, which 13


### not only are triggers for asthma, but can be the 14


### root cause of lung cancer, heart disease
, 15


### developmental disabilities in children, and other 16


### diseases as well, including premature death, 17



### which is the ultimate. 18



### The recent National Climate Assessment 19


### highlights other critical health impacts from 20


### carbon pollution and climate change that are 21



### alread y being felt today across the nation and 22

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### are likely to pose even greater threats in the 1


### future, including heat waves, wildfires, extreme 2


### changes in weather, such as drought and excessive 3


### precipitation, flooding, dust storms, and the 4


### spread of infectious di seases. 5


### All of these events have very serious 6


### public health consequences for thousands of 7


### Americans, including people with lung disease 8


### such as asthma, chronic bronchitis, and 9


### emphysema; children whose airways are still 10


### developing; people who work or exerc ise outdoors; 11



### seniors; low

- income communities; and many more. 12


### As a parent and a lifelong advocate for 13


### children's health, I know that setting strong 14


### carbon limits is not just for the sake of future 15


### generations, but will improve the health of our 16



### children an d the health of our communities now 17


### and today. 18


### And the good news is another organization 19


### that I'm involved with, the League of 20


### Conservation Voters, did the following poll: 21


### After the Clean Power Plan was announced, the 22

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### polls shows public support of the pla n by a 1


### margin of 65 to 28 percent. In fact, support 2


### exceeded 60 percent in every region of the 3


### country and by voters in all age and income 4


### brackets, with younger voters and those in 5



### middle

- and lower

- income households especially 6


### supportive. 7



### I don't know i f you've had a chance to go 8


### online, but look how partisan this issue is in 9


### our country, sadly. Clean air should not be a 10


### partisan issue. The health of our children 11


### should not be a partisan issue. 12


### I thank you very much for inviting me 13


### here today and letti ng me give my testimony. 14


### MS. KEMKER: Okay. 15


### MS. SEIDELL: And good luck. 16


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 17


### Could you make sure that we get a site 18


### for the poll and the statistics that you quoted? 19


### MS. SEIDELL: Definitely. 20


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 21



### MS. SEIDELL: Certai nly. 22

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### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 1


### Our next speakers are Edward Wolf and 2



### David Root. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MS. KEMKER: We'll begin with Mr. Wolf. 5


### MR. WOLF: Thank you. Good afternoon. 6


### My name is Edward Wolf. I'm a retired pastor of 7


### the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 8


### representing the Southeastern Synod, which covers 9



### four states

-- Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and 10


### Tennessee. I live in Jonesboro, Tennessee, the 11


### storytelling capital of the world. 12


### As Lutherans, we deeply believe that this 13


### earth has been provid ed to us through God's 14


### grace. As reported in the first chapter of 15


### Genesis, we are to be stewards of God's creation, 16


### to care for it and to provide for all humanity 17


### through life that is generated by creation. 18


### Something is happening that is scary, 19



### threatenin g, and what we believe to be against 20


### God's will and purpose. Humanity is destroying 21


### the gift of God. While all of humanity is 22

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### identified by its culture, it nation, its 1


### heritage, and location, the dynamics of change 2


### have created a global village where all humanity 3



### is now connected. 4


### In this global community, we are not 5


### separated from the earth to do what we wish; we 6


### are interconnected with the earth. Accordingly, 7


### what happens to the air, the seas, under the 8


### seas, and all that is impacted by land affects 9



### bo th our earth and us. 10


### What is happening to the earth and 11


### therefore to us cannot be explained in a brief 12


### period of time. Suffice it to say briefly, last 13


### April the average CO2 concentrations in the 14


### earth's atmosphere exceeded 400 parts per million 15



### on a susta ined basis for the first time in 16


### 800,000 years. 17


### Thirteen of the fourteen hottest years 18



### ever measured with instruments have occurred in 19


### this century. This past May was the hottest year 20


### [sic] ever in the history of the earth. The 21


### collapse of a portion of t he West Antarctic ice 22

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### sheet is not only underway; it is irreversible, 1


### causing a continued rise in the earth's water. 2


### The northeast part of Greenland has been 3


### losing more than 10 billion tons of ice per year 4


### for the last decade. The April rain in 5



### Pensacola , Florida, brought two feet of water in 6


### 24 hours. One hundred percent of California is 7


### in severe, extreme, or exceptional drought. The 8



### fire season is two

- and

- one

- half months longer 9


### than 30 years ago. 10


### A trigger of the civil war in Syria has 11



### been identifie d as the drought from 2006 to 2010, 12


### where 60 percent of the farms and 80 percent of 13


### the livestock were destroyed. A Pentagon 14


### advisory committee has described the climate 15


### crisis as a catalyst for conflict that may cause 16


### governmental and societal collapse. 17


### Many of the above facts do not affect our 18


### nation directly. Yet whatever happens on this 19


### earth affects all of us as a global community. 20


### The United States, as the self

- proclaimed world 21


### leader, has the responsibility to be a model for 22

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### responding favorably a nd decisively to what is 1


### happening to Mother Earth. 2


### Honestly and personally, I'm scared. The 3



### fear is not about me. I will not be here to see 4



### the results of a scarred earth if we continue 5


### down the same path. I'm 77. I am concerned for 6


### my grandchildren, all seven, and the great

7


### grandchildren that will come after. 8


### I am also concerned for this great 9


### nation. Catastrophic events caused by climate 10


### change can weaken and

- or destroy any democracy, 11


### for all democracies are fragile, at best. 12



### The ELCA and I are tota lly in favor of 13


### the executive order that was given that requires 14


### a reduction of 30 percent in carbon emissions 15


### over the next 30 years. Our presiding bishop and 16


### the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in 17


### America have issued a joint statement to that 18



### e ffect. 19



### Carbon emissions and their effect on the 20


### atmosphere are one of the major drivers of 21


### climate change that is warming this planet. When 22

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### we look at the universe, this small orb called 1


### earth is an incredible creation of God, however 2



### we understand God. We are the stewards of this 3


### creation. We are responsible for its nurturing, 4


### growth, and productivity, not just now, but for 5


### all the generations after us. There is no Plan 6



### B. 7


### Thank you. 8


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 9



### Mr. Root. 10


### MR. ROOT: Thank you. And it's Roo t, R

11



### o

- o

- t. 12


### My name is David Root. I speak today in 13


### favor of the proposed Clean Power Plan. I speak 14


### as a citizen increasingly concerned about the 15


### quality of life in my home state and in our 16


### planet. I am a lawyer by profession, an elder in 17


### Presbyterian c hurch, a husband, father, and 18


### relatively new grandfather. I do not speak for 19


### nor am I sponsored by any vested or special 20



### interest. 21


### I was surprised to learn several years 22

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### ago that our nation's power plants cause nearly 1


### 40 percent of carbon pollution in the United 2


### States. Georgia is a big contributor to this 3


### carbon problem because we use coal to produce 4


### electricity. Several years ago, I had a legal 5


### matter down at Plant Scherer, near Macon, 6


### Georgia, and I got to take a look at that 7


### facility. I was amazed t o see train car after 8


### train car of coal rolling into the plant, coal 9



### that had been extracted from beautiful mountain 10


### ranges in Wyoming, coal that was then burned 11


### around the clock to provide Georgians with 12


### electricity. 13


### It is appropriate that these hearings are 14


### here in Atlanta, as the problem with carbon 15


### pollution is particularly evident here. I 16


### witness it every day, firsthand, from the 36th 17


### floor of my office building a few blocks from 18


### here, where, when I look out over a smog

- covered 19


### city. 20


### In Georgia, we he ar more and more about 21


### the negative health effects from Atlanta's poor 22

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### air quality. Our local weather reports contain 1


### smog alerts that warn the young and elderly to 2


### stay inside. When I was a kid, I never heard a 3


### weather report telling me that I risked my health 4


### by going outdoors to play on a sunny summer day. 5


### I'd like to go back to a world where my new 6


### grandchildren won't grow up worrying about such 7


### things. 8



### We've all listened to news accounts that 9


### debate the impact of carbon pollution on the 10



### world. I've listened to these reports, but I've 11


### also talked to friends I trust here in Atlanta, 12


### who teach at Emory or Georgia Tech, or who work 13



### for the CDC or in our remarkable medical 14


### community here. 15


### My scientist and doctor friends all 16


### believe that carbon pollution in Georgia and 17


### across the U.S. fuels climate change, triggers 18


### asthma attacks and respiratory disease, worsens 19


### our air quality, and contributes to more 20


### frequent, more destructive, more costly, and more 21


### deadly extreme weather events. 22

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### We regulate arsenic, soo t, and other 1


### dangerous pollutants, but our power plants have 2


### been able to inject unlimited amounts of carbon 3


### pollution into the air. The Clean Power Plan 4


### will hopefully change that. 5


### The principal argument against efforts 6



### like the Clean Power Plan is its s upposed job

7


### killing impact. Having seen the terrible results 8


### of our recent recession, I worry about jobs, too. 9



### But I believe we need to take a hard look at the 10


### true economic impact of doing nothing about 11



### carbon. 12


### As a result of our reliance on coal, we 13



### pa y increased health costs. We pay millions to 14


### clean up coal slurry when it escapes its holding 15


### pens and floods a river. And most concerning of 16


### all, our businesses and insurers are already 17


### calculating the devastating economic impact of 18


### climate change, whic h has the potential to be 19


### staggering. 20


### As opposed to being an economic 21


### detriment, I'm hopeful the Clean Power Plan will 22

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### spur the development of renewable energy 1


### technologies, leading to job creation and 2


### economic growth. I have read that the plan will 3


### provi de public health and climate benefits at $55 4


### billion to $95 billion per year by 2030, benefits 5


### that far outweigh the costs. 6


### In conclusion, I strongly support the 7


### Clean Power Plan. As a lawyer, I am grateful to 8


### live in a country where, under the rule of la w, 9


### we as citizens can encourage our government to 10


### take practical, deliberate, and organized steps 11


### to improve our quality of life. As a person of 12


### faith, I believe we are stewards of our planet 13


### and are morally obligated to preserve creation. 14


### And finally, I am hopeful that my new 15


### grandchildren, who will live into the twenty

16


### second century, will enjoy a world that my 17


### grandparents, born in the nineteenth century, 18


### would recognize. 19


### Thank you. 20


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 21


### Our next speakers are Michael Whatley and 22

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### Brian Rinehart. 1


### Thank you both. 2



### MS. KEMKER: Do we have either Michael 3


### Whatley or Brian Rinehart? 4


### [Inaudible interjection.] 5



### MS. KEMKER: Could be. 6


### [Pause.] 7



### MS. KEMKER: R

- i

- n

- a

- n

- t? 8


### Are you signed up for this time slot? 9


### [No audible response.] 10



### MS. KEMKER: We 're going to take a five

11


### minute recess, and we will be right back. 12



### Thanks. 13


### [Recess taken from 3:50 to 4:00 p.m.] 14


### MS. KEMKER: And, Mr. Whatley, when 15


### you're ready. 16


### MR. WHATLEY: Okay. Thank you. 17


### My name is Michael Whatley, and I'm the 18



### Executive Vice Presi dent for Consumer Energy 19



### Alliance. 20


### MS. KEMKER: And I'm going to

-- sorry 21


### for the interruption. I'm going to remind 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### everyone to spell your name for the court 1



### reporter. 2


### MR. WHATLEY: Certainly. Yes. Michael 3


### Whatley, W

- h

- a

- t

- l

- e

- y. 4



### And I'm the Executive V ice President for 5


### Consumer Energy Alliance. CEA is a national, 6


### nonprofit, nonpartisan trade association made up 7


### of both energy consumers and energy producers 8


### working to advance an all

- of

- the

- above energy 9


### strategy that will lower costs for every American 10



### e nergy consumer. 11


### Our membership is wide. It is diverse. 12


### It is made up of every economic sector, including 13


### electricity users such as manufacturers, iron and 14


### steel producers, chemical producers, 15


### pharmaceutical producers, and agribusiness, as 16


### well as 400,000 individuals nationwide. And we 17


### also have energy producers on a wide range, 18


### including coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, wind, 19


### solar, and other renewables. 20


### Access to affordable, reliable energy is 21


### of utmost importance to our members because every 22

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### dollar spe nt on energy is a dollar that cannot be 1


### spent on capital investment, payroll savings, 2


### groceries, or next year's family vacation. In 3


### order to create economic growth, it is important 4


### for the government to implement policies that 5


### will ensure affordable, reli able energy supplies 6


### for America's families, farms, factories, and 7



### small businesses. 8


### If finalized as proposed, these 9


### regulations on existing electric generation units 10


### will undoubtedly cause reliability and 11


### affordability concerns for many states, 12


### particular ly those that utilize coal for a large 13


### portion of their electricity generation. This is 14


### particularly acute problem for many states in the 15


### Midwest and Southeast regions, where a majority 16


### of the states rely on coal

- powered generation for 17



### more than one

- third of their electricity needs. 18


### As proposed, these regulations would 19


### force states to enact policies which would 20


### require utilities and electric cooperatives to 21


### prematurely shut down coal

- fired power plants, 22

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### either through the implementation of fuel

1


### switching r equirements or renewable fuel 2



### mandates. 3


### Given the nature of our electric grid, 4


### abrupt changes in our energy mix, particularly 5


### ones that have not been contemplated throughout 6


### the development of the grid, will reduce dispatch 7


### options, disrupt fuel diversific ation that has 8


### been critical to low electricity costs. 9


### Additionally, plant closures will 10


### continue to have a real and negative impact on 11



### state and local economies. For the most 12


### vulnerable among us, including low

- income 13


### families and seniors living on fixed budgets, 14


### higher electricity costs cannot be easily 15


### absorbed. In essence, they are a regressive tax. 16


### While natural gas, nuclear, alternative, 17


### and renewable electricity generation have become 18


### a much more important part of the fuel mix over 19


### the past several decades and are certainly 20


### capable of increasing their contributions to the 21


### grid, developing additional capacity from these 22

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### sources and the necessary infrastructure to 1


### realize these expansions will take time and 2


### likely come with significant costs to consume rs. 3


### We would also like to point out that 4


### EPA's aggressive timeline allows states only one 5


### year to develop a very complex plan that will 6


### need to address a series of adjustments to their 7


### electricity generation, consumption, and energy 8



### infrastructure that wil l come from forcing a 9


### change in the energy mix. 10


### States have historically been given 11


### several years to develop and implement 12


### regulations for criteria pollutants that are a 13


### fraction of the size and scope of these proposed 14


### regulations that we are discussing to day. 15


### Forcing through regulations of this 16


### magnitude in such a short time frame will limit 17


### the ability of states and stakeholders to 18


### thoughtfully prepare for the drastic changes that 19



### this rule would cause. 20



### If this administration is comfortable 21


### spending more than five years evaluating the 22

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### Keystone XL Pipeline, it should feel comfortable 1


### taking the time to craft a thoughtful rule that 2


### fully evaluates the consequences of the proposed 3



### actions here. 4


### At a time when electricity consumption is 5


### projected to grow, it is important that 6


### government regulations and policies avoid 7


### electricity supply disruptions or unnecessary 8


### price increases. As EPA considers how to move 9


### forward, we urge the agency to keep electricity 10


### consumers in mind and not to promulgate and 11



### finalize ru les that will adversely affect 12


### business and family budgets. 13


### Thank you. 14


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 15


### Any questions? 16


### [No audible response.] 17


### MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Rinehart. 18


### MR. RINEHART: Brian Rinehart, B

- r

- i

- a

- n 19



### R

- i

- n

- e

- h

- a

- r

- t. 20


### I'm Brian Rinehart, from Louisville, 21


### Kentucky. I'm an environmental studies major at 22

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### the University of Rochester, where I also work as 1


### a sustainability coordinator. 2


### I am in support of this plan. However, 3


### the greenhouse effect itself was first recognized 4


### in the early 1800s. By t he late 1930s, it was 5


### already suggested that CO2 emissions from human 6


### fossil fuel consumption was contributing to 7


### climate change. 8


### The science here is not new, but it is 9


### getting better. And papers are constantly being 10


### published that confirm what has been s uspected 11


### about the economic, climatic, and health impacts 12


### of the burning of fossil fuels. 13



### With all of this and all of the time 14


### we've had with these facts, it seems evident that 15


### the proposed 30 percent cuts in emissions by 2030 16


### is merely a lean in the right direction, rather 17


### than the necessary step. 2030 is far too late 18


### for enforcement of cuts that should have already 19



### been met. 20


### So many of the people who have been doing 21


### this for decades have said that they were working 22

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### so that their children didn't have to i nherit 1



### their burdens. It's too late for that. The 2


### problems of past generations have now become ours 3


### because the people in charge have refused to act, 4


### because the people in power said to let us deal 5


### with it so that they could continue to profit. 6



### But we're here now. We're here, and yet 7


### they carry on. Instead of letting us deal with 8


### it, they silence us. They call my generation 9


### lazy, uninspired, unengaged, unwilling to speak 10


### out. They try to take away our voice and to 11


### attack our credibility. 12


### But we do spe ak. And we will not be 13


### ignored. We have taken it upon ourselves to try 14


### to convince leaders to heed our warnings and fix 15


### what they have put off for so long. 16


### Now that we have this long

- overdue plan 17


### before us, perhaps it is time to finally listen 18



### when we s ay that it is not enough. The U.S. is 19


### falling behind in global efforts to curb 20


### emissions. Just at face value, the Clean Power 21


### Plan fails to act quickly enough or decisively 22

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### enough. 1


### By giving energy companies so much time 2


### to come into compliance and prese nting a number 3


### of ways that they can safeguard old, inefficient 4


### modes of energy production, the plan serves 5


### primarily to kick the problem further down the 6



### road. 7


### The more we put off taking care of these 8


### issues now, the harder it will become for my 9


### generatio n and those that follow to deal with 10


### them effectively when we begin to make policy. 11



### Polls have shown that most Americans are 12


### in favor of carbon caps, and many believe that 13


### they already exist. It is clear that the current 14


### policies of the energy corporation s are not in 15


### line with what people think we have or what they 16



### want. 17


### People know what is good for them and 18


### have had so much faith in this system that they 19


### actually believe that they were being taken care 20


### of. We should not let them down by passing 21


### legislati on that fails to truly protect them. 22

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### Ultimately, the all

- of

- the

- above approach 1


### to cleaner energy is incompatible with the stated 2


### goals. If the idea is to curb climate change, 3


### then this plan in its current state will not 4



### work. 5



### It diverts funds that could b e invested 6


### in truly sustainable technologies by continuing 7


### subsidies for coal and nuclear, and expanding 8


### natural gas production via fracking, which itself 9


### uses massive quantities of energy, generates 10


### significant methane emissions, which are more 11


### potent tha n CO2 emissions, and destroys water 12


### quality and availability. 13


### The companies continue to deny 14


### responsibility for this, but common sense, even 15


### without seeing the studies coming out, leads one 16



### to other conclusions. 17


### There are too many ways that this plan 18



### allow s loopholes for current modes of production 19


### and does not properly encourage a real transition 20


### to efficient and sustainable energies. But, by 21


### all means, pass this plan. Any action is better 22

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### than inaction. But for this to truly be 1


### effective, the timeline must be moved up, the 2


### protection of antiquated forms of energy 3


### production must be weakened, and by the time 4


### companies come into compliance, a new stronger 5


### plan must already be in place as the next step. 6


### It is in the words of Wendell Berry, 7


### Kentuckian poet, "The name of our present 8


### society's connection to the earth is 'bad work,' 9


### work that is only generally and crudely defined, 10


### that enacts a dependence that is ill

- understood, 11


### that enacts no affection and gives no honor." 12


### Every one of us is to some extent gui lty 13


### of this bad work. This guilt does not mean that 14


### we must indulge in a lot of breast

- beating and 15


### confession. It means only that there is much 16


### good work to be done by every one of us and that 17


### we must begin to do it. 18


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 19


### Thank you bot h. 20


### Our next speakers are Joan Lindop and 21


### Elizabeth Poythress. And if I said your names 22

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### incorrectly, I apologize. 1


### [Inaudible interjections.] 2



### [Pause.] 3


### MS. KEMKER: And we'll begin when you're 4


### ready, Ms. Lindop. 5


### MS. LINDOP: Joan Lindop, J

- o

- a

- n L

- i

- n

6



### d

- o

- p . I'm a Sierra Club volunteer from 7


### Kentucky. 8


### I live in Kentucky, where we have low 9


### utility rates, but high energy bills, because we 10


### are incredibly inefficient. We are inefficient 11


### partly because our legislature is still living in 12


### the Coal Age. Even thoug h only 2 percent of 13


### Kentuckians are employed in the coal industry, a 14


### renewable portfolio standard or a meaningful net 15


### metering bill are not likely unless the Federal 16


### Government provides rules and incentives. 17


### Efficiency can create many great jobs, 18


### and they can't be sent to China. Efficiency 19


### holds a great potential for Kentucky, and we are 20


### seeing lead buildings appear around Kentucky. 21


### However, Kentucky is still dotted with coal

- fired 22

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### power plants. We get 90 percent of our power

-- 1



### I think it's more than 90 percent

-- from coal

2


### fired power plants. 3


### The City of Louisville has Mill Creek 4



### Power Plant on the south and Trimble Plants on 5


### the north, both on the Ohio River, both leaking 6


### into the river, and both polluting our air. 7


### We have high asthma rates, increasing 8


### school absences and increasing the incidence of 9


### heart disease in Kentucky. Please encourage our 10


### utilities to burn less coal, since particulates 11


### and coal ash are becoming

-- causing bigger 12


### health burdens. We need your help. We should 13


### not be subsidizing coal. 14


### Thank you. 15


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 16


### Ms. Poythress, is that

-- 17


### MS. POYTHRESS: Very good. You said it 18


### exactly right. 19


### My name is Elizabeth Poythress. And you 20


### spell that P

- o

- y

- t

- h

- r

- e

- s

- s. And I'm the 21


### President of the League of Women Voters of 22

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### Georgi a. And I'm very glad to be here again. I 1


### spoke at your October hearing. And I really want 2


### to thank you for the opportunity to speak on this 3


### particular Clean Power Plan. 4


### And again, I also thank you for doing it 5


### regionally and spreading out to a broad, br oad 6


### array of people and extending it for an extra day 7


### just because the public said, "We want to speak." 8


### Thank you very much. 9



### The air we breathe is critical to the 10


### health of all Americans, and particularly 11


### critical for the young, old, and impaired. We as 12


### Americans are obligated to preserve our natural 13


### resources, including clean, breathable air. 14


### In the position of

-- it is the position 15


### of the League of Women Voters of Georgia and 16


### other 49 leagues in 50 states that we as 17


### responsible Americans owe a profound moral 18


### obligation to our children and to future 19


### generations to act now to protect them from the 20


### effects of climate change, which we know is 21


### caused in part by carbon pollution from power 22

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### plants. 1


### We are morally obligated to protect our 2



### children and our future generations. 3


### You have heard from many in these 4


### hearings, and in the ones in October, about the 5


### cost and economic impact on businesses and 6


### individuals. I would just ask: Is there a cost 7


### that we should equate to eliminating our moral 8


### obligation to help? I think not. 9


### I am here today to thank the EPA for 10


### providing our population with protection thus far 11


### by adopting standards for the 40 percent of 12


### carbon pollution from existing power plants in 13



### the United States. These emissions can cause 14


### climate change and thousands of deaths every 15



### year. 16


### In Georgia, we have been taking the 17


### necessary steps, some of the necessary steps, to 18


### cut carbon pollution. Between 2008 and 2011, 19


### carbon emissions in Georgia dropped 20 percent. 20


### And through the EPA's Clean Power Plan, Geor gia 21


### will have the flexibility to continue this 22

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### positive momentum. 1


### The standards proposed by the EPA are 2


### aggressive and ambitious. We urge the EPA to do 3


### even more to strengthen the proposal to recognize 4


### the tremendous potential for renewable energy and 5



### ene rgy conservation. 6


### Cutting carbon emissions will protect 7


### public health by extending limits like the ones 8


### placed on arsenic, lead, mercury, and soot. All 9


### of those need to be regulated, and they are. So 10


### does what we're doing now with carbon emissions. 11



### Reduc ing emissions from existing power 12


### plants is critical to addressing the growing 13


### danger that climate change poses to the health 14


### and welfare of U.S. citizens and people around 15


### the world, as acknowledged by those leading 16



### climate scientists and the EPA itself. 17


### The American Lung Association, in its 18



### state

- of

- the

- art [sic] report, states that 19


### million of Americans across the country, 20


### including children and the elderly, live in areas 21


### that received an F rating for at least one of the 22

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### air quality measurements. In Geor gia, the four 1


### major metropolitan counties

-- Fulton County, 2


### DeKalb, and Gwinnett

-- have over 8,000 children 3



### that are in the F

- rated areas. This is 4


### unacceptable, and it must be changed. 5


### Leading public health organizations, 6


### including the American Medical A ssociation, the 7


### American Lung Association, the American Nurses 8


### Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, 9


### and the American Public Health Association, have 10


### gone on record calling climate change a serious 11


### public health issue. 12


### In Georgia alone, 8.2 perc ent of adults 13


### suffer from asthma, and across the country asthma 14


### rates have doubled. Until the U.S. can get a 15


### handle on the dirty air, exacerbated by the 16


### climate change caused by carbon pollution, we 17


### will continue to see thousands of premature 18


### deaths, resp iratory disease, and a higher risk of 19



### asthma attacks. 20



### On behalf of the children and the unborn 21


### generations of Georgia and the nation, the League 22

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### of Women Voters of Georgia urges the EPA to adopt 1


### strong carbon pollution standards for existing 2


### and new power plants and to address one of the 3


### main causes of climate change. The 4


### implementation of strong carbon pollution 5


### standards will protect the health of all 6


### Americans from its devastating impacts. 7


### I want to thank you again for providing 8


### the opportunity for this public hearing and for 9


### allowing the public to express their comments on 10


### this vital public health issue that will impact 11


### the citizens of Georgia and the United States. 12


### Thank you. 13


### [Applause.] 14


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 15


### If you will, we'll have

-- thank you ver y 16


### much to both speakers. 17


### Our next speakers are Samantha Siegel and 18


### Matt Campbell. 19


### [Pause.] 20


### MS. KEMKER: Ms. Siegel, when you're 21


### ready. 22

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### MS. SIEGEL: Okay. My name is Samantha 1


### Siegel, S

- i

- e

- g

- e

- l. I am a resident of South 2


### Carolina and a Clean Energy Organ izer for the 3



### South Carolina Sierra Club. 4


### I would like to thank the EPA for holding 5


### this public hearing and giving us the opportunity 6


### to comment on the proposed Clean Power Plan. 7


### I support the Clean Power Plan for 8


### obvious reasons, because carbon pollution 9



### e xacerbates climate disruption; contributes to 10


### more frequent and more violent extreme weather 11


### that cost communities, the Federal Government, 12


### and our economy billions of dollars each year; 13


### but most importantly because carbon pollution 14


### threatens every single human being's health. 15


### I commend the EPA for coming up with a 16


### plan that will limit carbon pollution for the 17


### first time in our country. According to the 18


### American Lung Association, nearly half of all 19



### Americans live in areas where the air is unsafe 20



### to breathe . And obviously, carbon emissions play 21


### a huge part in that. 22

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### In my role as an organizer for the Sierra 1


### Club, I have had the opportunity to meet with 2


### people who are directly impacted by some kind of 3


### pollution and reach out to us as the Sierra Club 4


### for help. 5


### Most recently, I had the pleasure of 6


### getting to know a man named Dan Powell. He grew 7


### up in Western North Carolina right by a coal

8


### fired power plant. He moved to Greenville, South 9


### Carolina, for work, and at 35, married the girl 10



### of his dreams and became a father. 11


### He loved his job as Greenville County Air 12


### Quality Director and City Planner for Fountain 13


### Inn, South Carolina. He wrote grants that 14


### brought in millions of dollars to revitalize 15


### Fountain Inn, build safe trails, and follow 16


### through with his lifelong passion of starting a 17


### clean air program. He had horrible asthma as a 18


### child due to the poor air quality near the plant. 19


### Dan has always been a health

- conscious 20


### nonsmoker. But at 36 years old, he felt short of 21


### breath one day and went to the doctor. That sa me 22

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### day, January 23rd of this year, Dan was diagnosed 1


### with stage

- four lung cancer and was told he had 2



### nine to twelve months to live. 3


### [Pause.] 4



### MS. SIEGEL: Sorry. 5


### He also recently found out from a 6


### neighbor from the community that he grew up in, 7



### near the coa l plant, and was also recently 8


### diagnosed with the same deadly disease, lung 9


### cancer. The Clean Power Plan, obviously, will 10


### help human health by

-- we've heard the statistic 11


### a couple of times

-- preventing up to 150,000 12


### asthma attacks and 6,600 premature de aths 13


### annually by the year 2030. 14


### I spoke with Dan at length last night. 15


### And he wanted to be here, but couldn't make the 16


### trip, for obvious health reasons. He wanted me 17


### to share his story. And he believes that God 18



### chose him for this so he could continue t o make 19


### an impact on the world by working for cleaner 20



### air. 21


### Don't you see, it doesn't matter how many 22

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### jobs are lost in coal mines or coal plants as a 1


### result of the proposed Clean Power Plan, even 2


### though new ones will be created by the new 3


### renewable energy co mpanies. It doesn't matter if 4


### our electricity bills go up a little bit. We're 5


### talking about human life. 6


### Dan Powell is a human being. And he 7



### deserved clean air to breathe as a child. Dan 8


### Powell is a young father, a husband, a son, even 9


### a grandson. He s houldn't have to suffer. No one 10


### should have to suffer because big corporations 11



### don't want to follow the rules. 12


### I am fortunate enough to not have been 13


### around in the early '60s at a time when I am sure 14


### many of the people in this room can remember what 15



### real smog was. What my dad describes to me as 16


### "not the sissy smog" that we may come across 17


### today, but honest

- to

- God hurt

- your

- eyes choke

18



### your

- lungs filthy, disgusting, putrid air that 19


### was literally not fit to breathe. 20


### People got sick. Not "I don't really 21



### feel well" sick

-- really sick. We are talking 22

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### really sick. It looked like the beginning of the 1


### end of the world. There are places where smog 2


### blocked out the sun. People describe being able 3



### to taste it. 4


### American manufacturers poured toxic waste 5


### directly in to our rivers and groundwater

-- 6


### poison, real poison. It was cheaper and more 7


### efficient to dump poison in your own neighbor's 8


### yard and in the town water supply than it was to 9


### clean up your own mess. 10


### "It's our country, and so we can trash 11


### it," seemed to be the national state of mind. 12


### Many of our political leaders opposed any kind of 13



### clean air and water standards because cleanliness 14



### was anti

- business. Those were usually the same 15


### people who swore cigarettes weren't a health 16


### hazard. "Smoke your lungs out." People who 17


### didn't smoke or complained about it were un

18



### American alarmists. 19


### These are also the same guys who would 20


### have advised you to pay close attention to the 21



### Camel advertisements who said nine out of ten 22

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### doctors agreed that smoking Camels is good for 1



### y our health. They really had these 2


### advertisements. I have copies of them. They 3


### really believed that. 4


### Higher costs associated with poison 5


### cleanup meant fewer profits, and fewer profits 6


### meant fewer jobs, and if you were against jobs 7


### and against profiting f rom lung diseases, that 8



### meant you were un

- American. 9


### But when people started choking and dying 10


### and we were forced to watch it on the evening 11


### news, we did something. We took steps to clean 12


### up cars and passed the Clean Air and Water Acts. 13


### Sanity prevailed o ver shortsighted profiteering. 14


### There were tough choices that had to be made, and 15



### we made them. 16


### [Inaudible interjection.] 17



### MS. KEMKER: Your time

-- just wrap it 18



### up. 19


### MS. SIEGEL: Just one more thing. 20


### MS. KEMKER: Okay. 21


### MS. SIEGEL: Today, we are once again 22

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### faced with tough environmental choices if we want 1


### to live healthy lives and have a healthy planet 2


### fit for human beings. There are alternatives. 3


### The proposed Clean Power Plan is a good one. We 4



### should find more of them. 5



### But the issue that environmentalis ts and 6


### those who oppose this plan have and believe that 7


### more government regulation will cost American 8


### jobs and are apparently fine with the idea that 9


### the people who live in rural communities that die 10


### from poison

-- sorry. 11


### That doesn't necessarily give you the 12


### right to

-- they want the freedom to choose where 13


### their electricity comes from. But they don't 14


### necessarily get the right to choose for innocent 15


### Americans like my friend Dan Powell. 16



### Thanks. 17


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 18


### MR. CAMPBELL: Hello. I'm Matt Campbe ll. 19


### Thank you for the opportunity. I'm speaking on 20


### behalf of the Smart Transportation Division. We 21


### are an association, a labor union that represents 22

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### several hundred thousand railroad employees 1


### across the continent. I'm here today on behalf 2



### of them to c onvey our concerns with the EPA's 3


### proposed Clean Power Plan. 4



### We as railroad workers are concerned and 5


### we care because of the impact it's going to have 6


### on our jobs, on our futures. The members of our 7


### organization, my coworkers, your neighbors, 8


### precious car eers are in jeopardy if some 9


### recommendations that have put forth are not heard 10



### and listened to. 11


### Here's some railroad facts and figures 12


### for you. First, there's nearly 40 percent of all 13


### freight railroad cars in America are coal cars

-- 14


### 40 percent. Coal has provided the revenues 15



### needed to build and rebuild America's railroads. 16


### Coal continues to provide the money necessary to 17


### expand and maintain our rail infrastructure. 18


### America's railroads will spend 19


### approximately $25 billion

-- "billion" with a B 20



### -- in 201 4 alone to maintain and expand 21



### infrastructure

-- that means jobs; that means 22

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### opportunity

-- as well as hire 14,000 employees 1


### on the railroad alone. I'm not talking about 2


### mining, utility employees. I'm talking about 3


### railroad workers, 14,000 this year. 4



### Sec ond fact, 25 percent of freight rail 5


### industry's revenue come from the shipping of 6


### coal. The miners mine it, the loaders load it, 7


### and the railroaders haul it to where it goes. 8


### When you take out

-- when you take coal away, 9


### you're affecting a lot of people. 10


### The third fact is 20 percent of all 11


### freight rail jobs involve hauling coal. These 12


### are huge numbers. They're going to have huge 13


### impact on people's lives and the American 14



### economy. 15


### Preliminary estimates of the impact on 16


### jobs brought about with the EPA's pr oposed Clean 17


### Power rule indicate the potential loss of 52,000 18


### permanent, direct jobs by the year 2020

-- 52,000 19


### in the utility, rail, and coal sectors. This is 20



### due to the closure of coal

- fired power plants 21



### retirements. 22

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### When you include the indirect job lo sses, 1


### jobs that go along with, but indirectly, the 2


### total increases to over 167,000 lost jobs. 3


### That's nearly 200,000 lost jobs by 2020. 4


### Like I said it previously, these railroad 5


### jobs are good jobs. That's not a temporary job, 6


### it's not seasonal employment; it's a career. 7


### Many of these jobs are in rural areas where 8


### there's not any comparable employment to obtain. 9


### That being said, I'll bring us to some 10


### suggestions that those affected, the different 11


### organizations, the railroad workers, the miners, 12


### the IBEW, w ho represents electrical workers

-- 13


### we've come up with some suggestions along with 14


### some other people who have the same interests as 15



### we do. And here are some recommendations for the 16



### EPA to consider. 17


### Number one, we believe the plan should 18


### provides states wi th credit for prior CO2 19


### reductions as an option towards meeting a 20


### reasonable national target for reducing CO2 21


### emissions from the electric power sector. 22

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### Number two, the EPA's compliance 1



### timetable is unrealistic. It's unachievable even 2


### with the multiyear co mpliance averaging toward 3


### the interim final targets. The initial reduction 4


### program should be delayed by several years to 5


### allow states and affected sources adequate time 6


### to prepare and submit state plans and to 7


### structure and implement compliance strategies in 8



### the most flexible least

- cost manner. 9


### The third, EPA's proposals for major 10


### expansions of state energy efficiency and 11


### renewable energy programs interfere with 12


### traditional state authority in energy planning 13


### and appear to be well beyond the agency's 14



### author ity under the Clean Air Act. 15


### The Supreme Court's recent decision on 16



### the GHG

- permitting rule contains strong 17


### cautionary language that the court would take a 18


### skeptical view of an overly expansive 19


### interpretation of EPA's authority to regulate 20


### greenhouse gases

. 21



### The fourth

-- we believe that the agency 22

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### should reconsider the proposed rule's building

1


### block approach to set states' CO2 emission 2


### reduction goals based on end

- use energy 3


### efficiency, increased use of natural gas and 4


### renewable energy, as well as other bey ond

- the

5



### fence emission

- reduction strategies. 6


### Rather, we propose and we urge the EPA to 7


### focus the rule only on options for reducing 8


### emissions within the plant fence

- line. The 9


### proposed 6 percent efficiency improvement for 10


### existing coal units is a step in th e right 11


### direction, for we are doubtful that all of these 12


### investments would ever be made, given the rule's 13


### negative impact on coal generation and new

- source 14


### review permitting. 15


### Fifth and final recommendation, or 16


### talking point, I'd like to bring up is, we 17



### bel ieve that the rule is premature, since we do 18


### not know the extent of what other nations, 19


### particularly large, developing countries, will be 20


### willing to commit to a truly global program for 21


### greenhouse gas reductions. 22

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### We cannot go it alone. America cannot go 1



### i t alone and expect our actions will have any 2


### meaningful climate impact in a world economy that 3


### is using more coal and other fossil fuels every 4


### day. 5


### Developing nations already emit more CO2 6



### than advanced industrial nations. And the 7


### Department of Energy pro jects that their share of 8


### global emissions will grow steadily and continue 9


### to do so regardless of what the U.S. decides to 10



### do. 11



### I'm done in about two seconds. 12


### Before I surrender the microphone, I want 13


### to make something clear. I love our environment. 14



### I'm a father of three children. I treasure this 15


### precious earth that we live on. I treasure 16


### Georgia's soil. That being said, I value my job. 17


### If I didn't have my job on the railroad, if my 18


### daddy didn't have his job on the railroad for 50 19


### years, I wouldn't be here today. I would not be 20


### able to provide for my family. 21



### There's a lot of work on the line here. 22

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### There's a lot of careers and lives that would be 1


### affected. And I plead with you on behalf of 2



### other middle

- class workers, like I am myself, to 3



### listen to the se recommendations and find a 4



### commonsense solution. 5


### Thank you. 6


### MS. KEMKER: Questions? 7


### MR. STENHOUSE: Yes. I have a couple of 8


### questions, actually. 9


### Mr. Campbell. 10


### MR. CAMPBELL: Certainly. 11



### MR. STENHOUSE: You cited effects on 12


### "indirect jobs." Can you cha racterize those for 13



### us? 14


### MR. CAMPBELL: A direct job would be 15


### someone working coal facility, a boilermaker, an 16


### iron worker, keeping the power plant running. 17


### Indirect jobs would be meaning, when coal is 18


### loaded at a plant, put on a train, train takes it 19



### to o ne destination. 20


### The indirect jobs that would line up with 21


### that, indirect jobs being people that sell 22

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### supplies to those industries that burn the coal, 1


### sales jobs. People that provide equipment to 2


### those jobs. People that drive trucks in and out 3



### of there th at might not work directly for the 4



### coal

- burning power plant. They work for other, 5


### different industries. But they are indirectly 6



### affected. 7


### MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thanks. 8


### And my other question is, you mentioned 9



### that

-- those estimates of potential job loss es 10


### attached to facility closures that you might 11


### anticipate by 2020. In that work, have you sort 12


### of differentiated between those that you think 13


### would close because of something like the Clean 14


### Power Plan going into place versus those that may 15



### close due to t rends, you know, independent of the 16


### rule? Or is it all potential closures, looking, 17



### forward? 18



### MR. CAMPBELL: The numbers I have here 19


### are from potential closures. 20


### MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thank you. 21


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 22

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### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you. 1



### MS. K EMKER: Our next speakers are 2


### Phillip Massengill and Steven Sondheim. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MS. KEMKER: And just a reminder to all 5


### to spell your name for our court reporter. 6


### Again, that's Phillip Massengill and Steven 7



### Sondheim. 8



### [Pause.] 9


### MS. KEMKER: And, Mr. Massengi ll, when 10


### you are ready. 11


### MR. MASSENGILL: All right. All right. 12


### My name is Phillip Massengill. I'm here today on 13


### behalf of the Sierra Club. And I'm here to speak 14


### in support of the proposed climate rule. 15


### Now, we've talked a lot today. We've 16



### heard a lot of testimony. We've heard a lot of 17


### people talking about the costs, the economic 18


### costs of implementing the rule, of taking a 19



### serious stance on carbon emissions. But I think 20


### really we have to refocus the narrative and talk 21



### about how we can't afford not to take serious 22

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### action at this point. 1


### Now, we talked a lot so far, but the 2


### three specific areas I'd like to focus on first 3


### is I'd like to commend the agency on the proposed 4


### flexibility in the rule. Second, I'd like to 5



### look at the subsidies for non

- coal alte rnatives 6


### and emphasize what I think would be the best way 7


### to spend those subsidies. And lastly, I'd like 8


### to look at the scope of the rule itself. 9


### Firstly, looking at the flexibility. I 10


### would like to really strongly commend the EPA in 11


### implementing flexibi lity throughout the rule in a 12


### number of ways. I like the option between states 13


### or regionals, state implementation plans, a way 14


### to kind of work with the states. A big issue 15


### that we're hearing about politically behind this 16



### new rule is this idea that the Fe deral Government 17



### is over

- reaching, that they're taking over, that 18


### really they're crushing the states. 19


### But you guys have done a great job in 20


### this rule in reaching out and making the states a 21


### partner in implementing this new rule and 22

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### allowing the states the freedom, with your 1


### guidance, to implement these rules. So I think 2


### that's outstanding. It speaks to the fundamental 3


### framework of our government and to federalism 4


### itself. So, that's outstanding. 5


### Also, though, it does a great job of 6


### allowing the states to use market solutions. 7


### Rather than a simple, central command model where 8


### we lock out, you know, by edict what you can and 9


### cannot emit, it allows the states to use creative 10


### market solutions and to tailor state plans, which 11


### for their specific regional econom ies. 12


### For instance, a big issue that a lot of 13


### people have talked about is the carbon tax and a 14


### way that you can use that more efficiently. 15


### We've heard over and over today about the costs 16



### in health care and the costs to 17


### disproportionately affected communiti es. 18


### A carbon tax is the way to make the use 19


### of these polluting sites that are still going to 20


### be open, as we're becoming more and more 21


### efficient, economically efficient. 22

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### You can use revenues from a coal tax to 1


### make these things efficient and use the money f or 2


### health care, to reinvest in communities, or even 3


### to use the money to help displaced workers from 4


### affected industries like coal mining, like the 5


### rail industry, things of that nature, to create 6


### programs to help them shift into modern clean 7



### economies. 8



### So I 've spoken quite a bit about 9


### flexibility, but that is outstanding. 10


### Secondly, though, let's talk about some 11



### of the subsidies or some of the different 12


### options. Now, the EPA rule proposes a kind of 13



### all

- of

- the

- above option other than coal. And 14



### while I commen d trying to move away from a heavy 15


### reliance centrally on coal and heavy carbon 16


### emission, we have to go all the way and make the 17


### full jump. 18


### Because simply a shift towards natural 19


### gas, which is reliant on the technology of 20


### fracking, which we all know has som e dubious 21


### environmental effects, or even of nuclear power, 22

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### which has an undercurrent technology, an infinite 1


### shelf life in terms of storing the spent fuel

-- 2


### these are all major issues that we're going to 3



### have to deal with in the future. 4


### If we're going to be spending money to 5


### subsidize the development of new energies, of a 6


### new cleaner economy, then let's make the full 7


### transition. Rather than going from a completely 8



### coal

- based economy to a fossil

- fuel

- like economy, 9


### I think it would be outstanding to put the se 10


### monies into local developments and new green 11


### energies. 12


### Now, that returns to what we were talking 13



### about earlier with the notion of these market 14


### solutions. There are ways that we can 15


### incentivize the development of these new greener 16


### forms of energy. And a great thing that's been 17


### going on state by state has been in the work to 18


### increase the amount of wind and solar energy at 19


### the community level, at the local utility 20



### district level. 21



### And I think that there would be an 22

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### important role to be played with the EPA and with 1


### the local state implementation plans in 2


### incentivizing this. And it really will create a 3


### more democratic and egalitarian energy production 4



### system. 5


### Lastly

-- and I see I've only got a 6


### minute, so I'll be brief

-- something I'd like to 7


### speak on is I' m so in favor of what the EPA is 8


### doing with this new plan that my last point will 9


### be on the scope. I like what you're doing. My 10


### only suggestion would be that it be expanded, not 11


### just to coal, but also to the automotive 12


### industry, the massive amount of emi ssions that we 13


### have, you know, which is a whole new area. 14


### This is outstanding, looking at the power 15


### production

-- you know, the power production 16


### system. And it makes sense. It's the single 17


### largest source of emissions, so of course, the 18


### policy would need to start there. But it needs 19


### to expand out from there so we can look at other 20



### carbon

- intensive industries, so we can start to 21


### take stances and start to develop and be more 22

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### energy efficient. 1


### And also, I think, hopefully

-- and 2


### quickly, I'll wrap it up; I a pologize for running 3



### out of time. 4


### I hope that this will be the catalyst so 5



### that we can become the leader in the environment 6


### that the United States is in so many other areas. 7


### And hopefully, developing economies will follow 8


### our lead, and this will spread ar ound the world 9


### for a global clean economy. 10


### Thank you. 11


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 12



### Mr. Sondheim? 13


### MR. SONDHEIM: Hi. Let's get this right. 14


### Can you hear me? Yeah. 15



### I'm Steven Sondheim. It's S

- t

- e

- v

- e

- n 16


### Sondheim, S

- o

- n

- d

- h

- e

- i

- m. I'm from Memphis, 17



### Tennessee. I'm in the Sierra Club. I'm on the 18


### Steering Committee of a Special Committee. It's 19



### a Nuclear

- Free Sierra Club Committee. 20


### And I have a couple of handouts, which 21


### I'll give you, one of them being "Nuclear Power 22

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### Makes Climate Change Worse," and gives some 1



### r easons; and the other is "Nuclear Power Is Not 2



### Part of the Climate Solution." 3


### But before I get into those things, I 4


### want to tell you a little story about regulation. 5


### And I really appreciate so much that the EPA is 6


### finally going to take charge of this. It hasn't 7


### been taken charge of before. 8


### And the story is I'm also very involved 9


### in transportation, and I sit on a transportation 10


### advisory committee for my city and state. And at 11


### one point about three or four years ago, I asked 12


### them if they were tracking carb on yet. And the 13


### answer was, "Yes, of course we track carbon." 14


### And I said, "I don't think you do." 15


### And they said, "Yeah, of course we track 16



### carbon monoxide." 17


### And I said, "No, carbon dioxide." 18


### And then they spoke up and they said, 19


### well, no, they're not requ ired to yet. And they 20


### aren't going to track it until they're required 21



### to. 22

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### I say that to say that agencies who 1


### control our infrastructure aren't going to, just 2


### out of goodwill, track certain things unless 3


### they're required to. And it's so great that you 4



### al l now are going to

-- you know, it's never

-- 5


### they've never tracked that before. 6


### And in consideration of building things 7


### or of road structure or of power plant or power 8


### usage or manufacturing, when people are required 9


### to pay attention to something, they do

. 10


### And one other quick thing. I heard Lisa 11


### Jackson three or four years ago, the former head 12


### of the EPA, talk about her concept of reasonable 13


### regulation and her concept of regulatory 14


### certainty. 15


### And what she told us in the speech was 16



### that businesses that the y know what the ground 17


### rules are, and if everybody has to pay attention 18


### to them, and there's no cheating going on, they 19


### comply. And they find ways to deal with it well. 20


### So. Okay, now, to the nuclear part, I 21


### actually would like to suggest an analysis that 22

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### you all do. And I've thought a lot about this. 1



### I'm not for nuclear for a number of reasons

-- 2


### the radiation, the danger, the safety, the 3


### unreliability. But I think the bottom line is 4



### economics. 5


### I want you all to sort of do a study for 6



### how much carbon reduction or carbon avoidance

-- 7


### I think maybe it's better to say "carbon 8



### avoidance"

-- could you get with a big old bag of 9


### money, $10 billion or whatever, if you pour that 10


### money into efficiency, conservation, and 11


### renewable, versus if you poured that mone y into 12



### nuclear? 13


### And I maintain, and in our studies that 14


### we've done, and we're glad to share them with 15


### you, you get four to six to eight to ten times as 16


### much by directly providing power that has no 17


### carbon aspect. Nuclear has a low carbon aspect. 18



### It does h ave more than none. People have talked 19


### about the complete cycle and the cleanup. 20


### But the other point is you could just 21


### purchase so much completely clean energy for the 22

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### money that it takes to do nuclear. And nuclear 1


### is extremely expensive. Other people h ave talked 2


### about how expensive it is and the cost overruns 3


### and the delays. 4


### New nuclear is just outrageous. It 5


### should never be considered anymore. But even 6


### maintaining the old nuclear, they're involved in 7


### relicensing plants that are very old and creaky 8



### an d dirty and leaky, you know, for another 20 9


### years. It's going to be lots of cost there. 10


### So I would request, and I'll request it 11


### formally, that you all do a study for how you can 12


### get the most bang for the buck, whether it be

-- 13


### well, which ways would it be ? And that's where 14



### we should strive. We should strive for an 15


### aggressive

-- and I so appreciate it

-- carbon 16


### reduction phenomenon. And I think we can do it, 17


### and I think we can do it with new jobs, with a 18



### new economy. 19



### But I think we have to do it because 20


### we're all scared to death about, this carbon is 21


### going to just bite us, badly. You know, it could 22

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### be a disaster. 1


### A couple of other things that I want to 2


### say about nuclear. And that is, I want to 3



### consider

-- I want to mention that I think people 4



### should con sider the full cost of nuclear and the 5


### full amount of energy that nuclear takes, 6


### especially in the transportation, the uranium 7



### enrichment. 8


### As an example, USEC

-- what's that 9


### called? USEC, which is a uranium enrichment 10


### plant was just shut down in Kentucky. And it 11


### required nine of the ten coal

- powered units out 12


### of Shawnee just to maintain that plant. And now 13


### that's going to, I think, allow them, well, 14


### depending on how they structure it, to shut 15



### Shawnee down. 16


### And there's a lot of energy

- intense 17


### things about nuclear, and including the future of 18


### nuclear, the decommissioning and so forth. So I 19


### just really highly recommend we are very careful 20



### on nuclear and that we don't do that and that we 21


### look for the best bang for the buck on carbon. 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 2


### Questions? 3


### [No audible response.] 4


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 5


### Our next speakers are Jennifer Kaduck and 6



### Michael Hannan. 7


### [Pause.] 8


### MS. KEMKER: Ms. Kaduck, when you're 9


### ready, you may begin. 10


### MS. KADUCK: Hello. Good afternoon. My 11



### name is Jenni fer Kaduck. I advise Agnes Scott 12


### College on sustainability issues and am 13


### presenting my comments today on behalf of the 14


### college. In addition to my work there at the 15


### college, I'm also an alumni, and it's a great 16


### honor for me to be chosen to speak today on 17


### behalf of the college on this very important 18


### topic. 19


### MS. KEMKER: Ms. Kaduck, would you mind 20


### spelling your name for the court reporter? 21


### MS. KADUCK: Yes. It's Jennifer, J

- e

- n

22

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### n

- i

- f

- e

- r, Kaduck, K

- a

- d

- u

- c

- k. And I am an 1


### advisor for Agnes Scott College. 2



### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 3


### MS. KADUCK: Agnes Scott was founded in 4


### 1889 in Decatur, Georgia, as an independent 5


### undergraduate college for women. Our mission is 6


### to educate women to think deeply, live honorably, 7


### and to engage the intellectual and social 8


### challenges of their times. And we have a long, 9


### proud history here in Georgia of doing that. 10


### The climate change crisis is one of the 11


### most important intellectual and social challenges 12


### facing our world today. Addressing this crisis 13


### by reducing carbon pollution fits s quarely into 14


### our mission at Agnes Scott and other institutions 15


### of higher learning. 16


### The rules U.S. EPA has proposed will cut 17


### carbon emissions from power plants by 30 percent 18


### across the country by 2030 and create many 19


### thousands of jobs in the clean energy se ctor. We 20


### strongly support this proposal and encourage the 21


### agency to do even more to mitigate climate 22

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### change. 1


### While these proposed rules are a start, 2


### they will not be nearly enough, though, to 3


### mitigate the many deleterious effects that the 4


### changing climate has on people's health, the 5


### environment, and economies throughout our country 6



### and world. 7


### Last year, the college bought over 8 8


### million kilowatt hours of electricity. As a 9


### large

- volume electricity customer, the college 10


### expects and is depending on significa nt 11


### reductions in the carbon intensity of the 12


### electricity that we will purchase in the future. 13


### These proposed rules will help make sure that 14


### happens. 15


### Agnes Scott is deeply committed to 16


### combating climate change, as are many other 17


### colleges and universities t hroughout our nation. 18


### We are working hard to become carbon neutral and 19


### have a plan to achieve this by the year 2037. 20


### Since 2008, we've reduced carbon emissions by 21


### over 20 percent at Agnes Scott. 22

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### Our climate action plan includes a 1


### greenhouse gas inventory that accounts for all 2



### our carbon emissions that are released on an 3


### annual basis. This inventory is the tool that we 4


### use to help us understand how campuses release 5


### carbon into the atmosphere and how we can target 6



### reductions. 7


### Greenhouse gas inventories and climate 8


### action plan have been voluntarily submitted by 9


### more than 680 institutions of higher learning 10


### that have signed on to the American College and 11


### University Presidents' Climate Commitment, as we 12


### have. Together, these institutions have reduced 13



### their ca mpus cumulative carbon emissions by more 14


### than 25 percent since 2007. 15


### Our latest inventory, done in calendar 16


### year 2012, shows that Agnes Scott was responsible 17


### for emitting a total of 9,961 metric tons of 18


### carbon equivalent. Sixty

- eight percent of the 19


### colleg e's total emissions were attributable to 20


### the electricity we purchased. This purchased 21


### electricity is used to run air conditioning, 22

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### lights, computers, and other electrical equipment 1


### at the college. 2


### To reduce our carbon emissions, our 3



### Climate Action Plan se eks to sharply reduce the 4


### amount of energy the colleges uses, through a 5


### variety of ways, including energy conservation 6


### through individual behavioral changes, energy 7


### efficiency of electrical equipment, efficient 8


### building design and renovation, use of 9



### altern ative commuting and transportation methods, 10



### reduced solid

- waste generation along with 11


### recycling and composting, the generation of 12


### renewable energy, and the purchase of less

13



### carbon

- intensive electricity. 14


### Like many small fossil

- fuel

- powered steam 15


### plants acro ss the country in the twentieth 16


### century, Agnes Scott's original steam plant was 17


### closed in favor of a better technology. This 18


### beautiful, historic steam plant still stands on 19


### our campus awaiting a new purpose. And it's just 20


### a stone's throw away from a bran d

- new 20

- kilowatt 21


### solar power array that graces the top of our 22

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### science building. 1


### In early 2014, this solar array began 2


### producing about 30,000 kilowatt hours per year of 3



### carbon

- free power, which is sold to Georgia Power 4


### through the company's advanced solar initiative 5


### and inserted into the electricity grid. Agnes 6


### Scott plans to increase solar production by more 7


### than tenfold by the end of this year by adding 8


### five more solar arrays. 9


### In August, the college will reopen 10


### Campbell Hall, a historic building that's b een 11


### completely renovated to lead gold standards. 12


### Using some of the world's most highly efficient 13


### heating and air conditioning technology, known as 14


### hybrid geothermal, that uses the deep earth as a 15


### heat source and a heat sink, this system uses 40 16


### percent le ss energy, and thus will emit about 40 17


### percent less carbon, than traditional HVAC 18



### systems. 19


### To further reduce carbon emissions, the 20


### college has installed a fast

- charging electric 21


### vehicle station on campus to use by the college 22

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### and the public. We're also mo dernizing our 1


### lighting systems across campus to further 2


### decrease energy consumption. These investments 3



### could reduce carbon emissions even more if the 4


### college could purchase electricity produced in a 5



### much less carbon

- intensive manner. 6


### MS. KEMKER: Thank yo u. 7


### MS. But all of what we're doing

-- I'm 8



### almost finished

-- 9



### MS. KEMKER: I'm sorry. 10



### MS. KADUCK:

-- is attempting to do on 11


### its own is not enough if purchased electricity 12


### continues to have the same intensity as it does 13


### now, or only if it's minimally reduce d. We're 14


### relying on EPA rules to help the college reach 15


### carbon neutrality, and at the same time help us 16


### educate a generation of students as they learn to 17


### address climate change. 18


### Thank you for the job you're doing for 19


### our country, and we are glad to speak in support 20


### of these rules today. 21


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 22

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### Are there any questions? 1


### [No audible response.] 2



### MS. KEMKER: Mr. Hannan. 3


### MR. HANNAN: Hi. I'm Michael Hannan, H

4



### a

- n

- n

- a

- n. I'm a veteran, and I'm a citizen. I 5


### haven't prepared any notes. I've be en listening 6


### to people all day. 7


### Help me, Obi

- Wan, you're our only hope. 8


### I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it 9



### anymore. 10


### I talk to people all the time. I'm 11


### disabled, and I've got plenty of time on my 12


### hands. I talk to people from all walks of life. 13


### Thank you for finally taking steps to enforce and 14


### ensure a future for the health of our country. 15


### I got angrier and angrier as I sat here 16


### today, listened to people talk on one issue or 17



### the other issue. One issue is the health of our 18


### country, of our air, our water, our soil, our 19


### children, what we breathe, what we eat, what we 20


### drink. The other one, "If you make us do this, 21


### we're going to raise our rates. If you make us 22

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### do this, we're going to run out of power and have 1



### brownouts." 2


### Change is only going to c ome with the 3


### efforts that you're making. I wish you were 4


### making stronger efforts, just as a citizen. 5


### You know, the only reason I'm speaking 6


### here today is so that you hear an ignorant person 7


### talk. There have been so many intelligent people 8


### come up here to day, and you know

-- you already 9


### know all the facts and figures. 10


### The climate is changing. This is an 11


### emergency. It's a health emergency as well as an 12


### environmental emergency. And if you don't fix 13


### it, the industry will not. Even if you do fix 14


### it, they'r e going to drag their feet, just as 15


### they have, and it's going to take a lot longer 16


### than you think before any of these 17


### recommendations really go into effect. 18



### So, I can't urge you any more. I'm 19


### incapable of urging you enough to resist the 20


### pleas from industr y that this could endanger the 21


### supply of power to our country, that this could 22

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### eliminate jobs, as if they are not going to 1


### transition to a new and better economy, energy 2


### economy, because they will. We're not burning 3


### lots of lumber anymore. We don't need to keep 4


### burning coal anymore. 5


### I wish the incentives for changing to 6


### natural gas weren't as positive as they are in 7


### your recommendations. But your recommendations, 8


### please, please, please hold the line. You are 9


### the Environmental Protection Agency. You are our 10


### only hope. If you don't protect us, no one else 11



### will. 12


### That's it. Thank you very much for your 13


### time and for the opportunity to offer comments. 14


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 15


### Our next speakers are Joanne Goldenhill 16



### and Tim Williams. 17


### [Pause.] 18



### MS. KEMKER: Hi. Ms. Goldenhill, when 19


### you're ready, please begin. 20


### MS. GOLDENHILL: I'm ready. 21


### My name is Joanne Goldenhill. That's 22

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### spelled J

- o

- a

- n

- n

- e G

- o

- l

- d

- e

- n

- h

- i

- l

- l. 1


### I am a Kentuckian, and I am also a 2


### retired nurse, a photographer, and a member of 3



### Kentuckians for the Commonwealth, a grass

- roots 4


### social organization. 5


### I was born in Lynch, Kentucky, in Harlan 6


### County, on the site of Black Mountain, the 7


### highest mountain in our state. I believe that 8


### clean air and water is a human right. I want 9


### those things for us n ow and for the future 10


### generations. 11


### As the EPA works to address the problem 12


### of climate change, you have the opportunity to 13


### improve health conditions for communities like 14


### mine that live in the shadows of highly polluting 15


### power plants. I urge you to make thi s Clean 16


### Power rule much stronger to protect our health 17



### and climate. 18


### For more than 30 years, I've lived in 19


### Burnside, Kentucky, a small community in Pulaski 20


### County in Southeastern Kentucky. My great

- uncle 21


### was one of the major founding fathers of 22

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### Burnside. My family has a long and proud history 1



### there. 2


### Our community is also home to the Cooper 3


### Power Plant, EPA Registry ID No. 110013870944, a 4



### coal

- burning power plant operated by East 5


### Kentucky Power Cooperative. It was built in 1965 6



### and is located on the banks of the Cumberland 7


### River, which flows into Lake Cumberland less than 8



### a half

- a

- mile away. 9


### Directly across the river from the Cooper 10


### Power Plant is the Burnside Elementary School. 11


### This is a big concern I have, many family and 12



### friends who attended school ther e. We all sent 13


### our children there, including my two sons. Some 14


### people are now sending their grandchildren there. 15


### It doesn't matter what the weather is there, 16


### there's always a cloud over Burnside. 17


### As I said, I'm a retired nurse. But you 18



### don't have to be a health care professional to be 19



### concerned about the excessive amount of cancer in 20


### this area. The rate of people having seizures is 21


### abnormally high in my community, as are brain and 22

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### lung cancer rates. It breaks my heart to think 1


### of how many people I kno w who live within five 2


### miles of this plant who are suffering or dead 3



### from cancer and seizures. 4


### According to the Clean Air Task Force, 5


### air pollution from the Cooper Power Plant is 6


### linked with 35 premature deaths, 52 heart 7


### attacks, and 560 asthma attacks ann ually. Not 8


### only are we being exposed to toxic pollution from 9


### stack releases from the Cooper Power Plant, it 10


### also discharges some of the toxic chemicals, 11


### including lead, mercury, and a large list of 12


### others, into our waters of Lake Cumberland and 13



### Cumberland River. 14


### I'm here today to speak up for all the 15


### people in the frontline communities where fossil 16


### fuels are mined, drilled, and burnt. I'm here to 17


### ask you to make this Clean Power rule stronger to 18


### protect our health in three ways. 19


### One, the EPA gave Kentucky the third

20



### lowest carbon

- reduction target of all 50 states. 21


### Why is Kentucky at the bottom? We're the ones 22

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### with the most health benefits to gain from 1


### shifting to cleaner energy sources. According to 2


### recent reports, the utilities in our state will 3



### get mor e than halfway to the EPA's target without 4


### taking a single step. The bar is not high 5


### enough. 6


### If you go easy on the utilities in our 7


### state, it means that communities like mine will 8


### continue to be exposed to toxic pollution for 9



### decades to come. We deserve better. 10


### Two. The EPA rule ignores your own 11


### science about harmful pollution caused by 12


### switching to other fuels, including natural gas 13


### and biomass. If this rule drives Kentucky to 14


### shift from burning coal to burning gas, garbage, 15


### and forests, you will have achieved nothing. The 16


### EPA must use the best science about greenhouse 17


### gas emissions of each fuel source, and push 18


### utilities away from fuels that will only continue 19



### to harm our health and our climate. 20


### Three. The EPA rule doesn't do enough to 21



### promote energy efficiencies, renewable energy in 22

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### our state. 1


### Kentucky is the Saudi Arabia of wasted 2


### energy. Our homes use 30 percent more 3


### electricity than the national average. This EPA 4


### rule should require our utilities to ramp up 5


### efficiency programs aimed at helping c ustomers 6


### save money by saving energy. Without any 7


### efficiency requirements from the EPA, we can 8


### expect our utilities and lawmakers to do very 9



### little on their own. 10


### In closing, I want to remind EPA and all 11



### of us that clean air and water is a basic human 12


### righ t. I want that for us now and for the 13


### future. Without clean water and air to breathe, 14


### and without a safe and stable climate, there is 15


### no future for anyone. 16


### Thank you for all you do. 17


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 18



### Mr. Williams. 19


### MR. WILLIAMS: Hi. My name is Tim 20


### Williams, T

- i

- m W

- i

- l

- l

- i

- a

- m

- s. 21


### And I am the Vice President of Corporate 22

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### and External Affairs for GreyStone Power 1


### Corporation, a nonprofit member

- owned electric 2


### cooperative in Douglasville, Georgia. 3


### I want to thank you today for allowing me 4


### the opportuni ty to speak to you about this 5


### important issue that we all face as an American. 6


### GreyStone Power serves almost 110,000 7



### member

- owners in portions of eight west metro 8



### Atlanta counties. Electric co

- ops such as 9


### GreyStone are a unique subset of the electric 10



### util ity industry. We are a not

- for

- profit, 11



### member

- owned, and member

- governed utility. We 12


### provide electricity to almost 42 million people 13


### nationwide. That covers almost 70 percent of the 14


### land area of this great country. 15


### Our responsibility is to provide for o ur 16


### consumers with safe, reliable, and affordable 17


### power. This EPA proposal calls for a fundamental 18


### shift in the way that electricity is generated 19


### and used. One of the greatest concerns we have 20



### is the cost increase this will cause for our 21



### consumers. 22

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### In ord er to meet these proposed 1


### guidelines, coal

- fired power plants will be shut 2


### down on a scale that is unprecedented. Demand 3


### for natural gas will also surge, which means 4


### prices will naturally increase. 5


### Georgia families and Georgia businesses 6



### will bear the bru nt of these cost increases. 7



### Electric co

- ops like GreyStone Power strive to 8


### keep our rates affordable. If this proposed 9


### regulation goes into effect, monthly utility 10



### bills will increase; that is a fact. 11


### An increase in the cost of electricity 12



### means that fam ilies in our eight counties could 13


### be forced to choose between tasks such as filling 14


### up the car, buying prescription drugs, or keeping 15


### the lights on. 16


### And if I may stray just for a minute 17


### today, I'd like to make some personal remarks 18


### after hearing some of th e testimony today. I too 19


### am very involved in the spiritual life of my 20


### community. I'm an ordained elder in the 21


### Presbyterian Church USA. 22

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### My daughter received her Bachelor's and 1


### Master's Degrees from the Georgia Institute of 2


### Technology in Earth and Atmosphe ric Sciences, so 3


### we have these discussions quite often when I do 4


### see her. She now works at the University of 5


### Hawaii in Honolulu in their Earth and Atmospheric 6


### Science Department. 7


### But my daughter believes in manmade 8


### climate change, and so do I. I grew up in the 9


### 1960s in Birmingham, Alabama, which for those of 10


### you old enough in the room to remember, when we 11


### had really, really polluted air in the U.S., 12


### Birmingham was one of the most polluted cities in 13


### the entire United States, with its heavy focus on 14



### the ste el industry. 15


### My father worked for the U.S. Steel 16


### Corporation in coal mines and also in the steel 17


### plants for his entire career. My brother and I 18


### worked in the blast furnaces. We would pay our 19


### way through school. So we would work a year, go 20



### to school for a year. So it paid for our 21



### education. 22

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### Those were union jobs, very high

- paid 1


### jobs for low

- skilled employees. So we have much 2


### to owe that type of industry. Unfortunately, it 3


### was a very dirty industry. Most of the steel 4


### mills have closed in Birmingham. A nd the air is, 5


### hence, much cleaner. But it took a large 6


### transition, a lot of pain, to get to that day. 7


### And we have that clean air as opposed to 8


### the 1960s, thanks to the environmental laws and 9


### the creation of your organization, the EPA, back 10



### in the late '6 0s, early '70s. 11


### All of my colleagues in my industry 12


### today, we love our children just as much as 13


### anybody else in this room. And sometimes, we 14


### resent the fact, but we can understand it 15


### sometime, of the implications that we're for 16


### dirty air, we're for profit s, and all that. 17


### But in my industry, we're a nonprofit co

18


### op. The only reason we exist is to provide power 19


### to our members at the lowest possible cost. So 20



### we want the best for our children's future and 21


### our unborn grandchildren and for generations to 22

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### come. 1


### Our only disagreement seems to be on, how 2


### do we get to that area that we're all shooting 3


### for, lower carbon levels not only in the U.S., 4


### but also in the world? And let me just give you 5


### one little success story that I will say that was 6



### market

- based in our situation. 7


### Up to four years ago, 60 percent of our 8


### power was coming, at GreyStone Power, from coal

9


### burning power plants. In 2013, that had fallen 10


### to 9 percent of coal. Most of that was filled in 11


### with, obviously, a large amount of natural gas, 12



### but also nu clear and hydro assets. 13


### So I say all that to urge the EPA to go 14


### slowly on this proposal, because coal is still 15


### going to be part of the equation, you know. The 16


### question is, how much? You know, I think even 17



### President Obama has admitted to that. And we 18



### nee d to work together to ensure that we keep our 19


### power on and also keep our rates affordable by 20


### working to that same goal. 21


### Thank you. 22

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### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 1


### I appreciate that time that everyone is 2


### taking to come here and speak this evening. 3



### Our next spe akers are John Todd Waterman 4


### and Marlene Taylor. 5


### [Pause.] 6



### MR. WATERMAN: I'm John Todd Waterman. I 7


### want to thank you for hearing us today. I also 8


### want to thank you for these unprecedented carbon 9


### pollution standards. 10


### I'm from Oak Ridge, Tennessee, where a 11


### lot of important climate research is done. I'm 12


### the Tennessee State Climate Lead for Organizing 13


### for Action. Unlike many of your critics here 14


### today, no one is paying me to be here. I'm here 15


### because I deeply care about our future. 16


### I love kids, and I'm sur e you do, too. 17


### I'm here to speak for all our little girls and 18


### boys who can't yet speak for themselves. They 19


### need your help

-- our children, our 20


### grandchildren, the children and grandchildren 21


### they will also love, and countless generations of 22

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### our progeny fo r farther into the future than we 1


### can imagine, far more kids than have ever lived 2


### until now. Their future is in your hands. 3


### That future grows darker with every 4


### moment we delay the kind of courageous action the 5


### EPA is proposing with your Clean Power Plan. Our 6


### own kids will be around in 2050, and we hope in 7


### 2100, by which time climate change's devastating 8


### consequences will be too obvious to ignore. 9


### But today, there are protesters outside 10


### who sincerely believe that climate change is a 11


### hoax and the EPA is jus t making a power grab. 12


### They believe that the 97 percent of climate 13


### scientists throughout the world, having chosen a 14


### profession in which the truth is everything, have 15


### now all chosen to lie in perfect unison. 16


### That's a pretty preposterous conspiracy 17


### theory, but we all want to believe what our 18


### friends believe. As the producer of Years of 19


### Living Dangerously recently told me, quote, "If 20


### you don't like the solution, you don't like the 21


### problem," unquote. 22

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### And the problem is this: Countries, 1


### states, and companies with fossil interests hold 2


### 27 trillion in carbon reserves, enough to raise 3


### global temperatures by 9 to 11 degrees 4


### Fahrenheit, devastating our planet for millennia. 5


### They can only sell it all if they can block green 6


### energy by convincing voters and politicia ns that 7


### 97 percent of scientists are wrong or corrupt. 8


### So they're spending hundreds of millions 9


### of their record profits on a secretive worldwide 10



### tobacco

- inspired disinformation campaign with 11


### elite goal to, quote, "reposition global warming 12


### as theory, not fact," taking a hint from the 13


### tobacco industry, which did exactly the same 14


### thing. 15


### They trumpet data

- cooking deniers 16


### followed by more oil than pelicans in an oil 17


### spill. They can cherry

- pick time periods when 18


### temperatures have dropped, say that's proof 19


### they 're falling, and spread that all over the 20


### Web, knowing Google or email or Facebook can't 21


### tell us if it's just a pile of bull painted red, 22

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### white, and blue. 1


### But the scientists I know in Oak Ridge 2



### are scared to death we won't act and act fast to 3



### kick fossil f uels. And they can't believe we're 4


### not heeding their warnings. They know climate 5


### change is the greatest threat we humans have ever 6



### faced. 7


### Deniers' cries that green energy will 8


### kill the economy are just as bogus. Back in 9


### 2006, the British Treasury conclu ded in the well

10


### respected Stern Review that we could kick fossil 11


### energy for 1 percent of world GDP, whereas not 12


### doing so would cost from 5 percent of world GDP 13


### up to 20 percent, or more, quote, "now and 14


### forever," unquote, if we do nothing. That's a 15



### Great Depression with no hope of any recovery. 16


### Stern recently said he, quote, "far, far 17


### underestimated climate change's impact in that 18


### report." And the IPCC now gives the cost of 19


### mitigation at 0.6 percent of world GDP. But 20


### deniers dominate conservative policy, and they've 21


### persuaded half of Americans, including those 22

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### protesters today. 1


### You can bet the Koch brothers, whose 2


### Americans for Prosperity are behind the protest 3


### and whose billions in fossil fuels are at stake, 4



### don't believe climate denial for a moment. I 5


### mean, they went to MIT. And neither do the 6


### fossil corporations whose testimony you're 7


### hearing today. 8


### I implore you not to place our children's 9


### future in their hands. Denial is history's 10



### ultimate lie. And that lie is the source of most 11


### of the public supp ort for the fossil interests 12


### who are telling you to get out of their business 13


### today. I urge you to discount that support 14


### accordingly. 15



### We've made tremendous strides in 16


### reversing emancipation, suffrage, discrimination, 17


### and other injustices. But climate's d ifferent. 18



### We can't reverse it. Hanson and others tell us 19


### our CO2 will persist for hundreds or thousands of 20



### years. 21



### We can't take the ice that melts to 22

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### inundate Florida, our great coastal cities, even 1


### entire countries, and put it back on the Poles. 2



### We can 't take the acid from the oceans or bring 3


### back extinct species. We can't stop the super

4


### storms, droughts, and desertification that the 5


### IPCC says will reduce food supplies just as the 6


### population grows from 7 to 9 billion. 7


### Because climate change is truly th e 8


### greatest challenge we have ever faced, and 9


### because it's irreversible, it's also the greatest 10


### opportunity we have ever had to do real and 11


### enduring good. I hope you will take that 12


### opportunity. Do it for your kids, for our kids, 13


### for all the kids to come, for all time. 14


### Don't experiment on our children for the 15


### sake of fleeting short

- term profits, as some here 16


### today are asking. Don't send all those kids to 17


### come the bill for our gridlock and our greed. 18


### That's a bill they could never pay off, one that 19



### makes t he national debt look tiny. 20


### MS. KEMKER: Mr. Waterman, if you'll wrap 21


### it up soon. 22

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### MR. WATERMAN: Earth is their only home. 1


### Help leave them a clean, green world, one of 2


### abundance and opportunity, where they can thrive 3


### and be healthy and happy and free. He lp us lead 4


### the world at last. The kids will be grateful, 5



### all of them. 6


### Thank you all so much. 7


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 8


### MR. STENHOUSE: Just one question. 9



### MS. KEMKER: Yes. Please. 10


### MR. STENHOUSE: Mr. Waterman, if you, 11


### when you submit, you know, any written support 12


### for your testimony, I think you mentioned an 13


### estimate of how many degrees of increase might 14



### occur if carbon reserves were burned? 15



### MR. WATERMAN: Yes. That's translated to 16


### Fahrenheit, because we Americans tend to think in 17



### Fahrenheit. 18



### MR. STENHOUSE : That was my clarification 19


### question. But certainly, including a citation to 20


### where you found that figure would be helpful to 21



### us as well. 22

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### MR. WATERMAN: Yeah. That was quoted 1


### from a Bill McKibben article, and he was citing 2



### another source for that. I wil l find that source 3


### for you and include that as a citation. 4


### MR. STENHOUSE: Thank you very much. 5


### MR. WATERMAN: Yes, sir. 6


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 7


### Ms. Taylor. 8


### MS. TAYLOR: Hi. My name is Marlene 9


### Taylor, M

- a

- r

- l

- e

- n

- e T

- a

- y

- l

- o

- r. I'm from 10


### Knoxville, Tennes see, and I work there as a 11


### freelance writer and journalist. Thank you for 12


### allowing me to testify today. 13


### The Great Smoky Mountains National Park, 14


### one of the most beautiful places on earth, is 15


### under serious attack again. First, it was the 16


### lumber companies that sliced and diced their way 17


### through the mountains. Thankfully, and not a 18


### moment too soon, President Roosevelt set aside 19


### the land for future generations, like me. 20


### Today's threat is pollution that affects 21


### every aspect of the park

-- the air, the soil, 22

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### t he water, and all life. I grew up visiting the 1


### park often, hiking its trails or picnicking 2


### beside one of the many mesmerizing streams that 3


### flows down from the peaks, and breathing in that 4


### wonderful oxygenated air. 5


### Those visits instilled in me something I 6


### can't fully explain, other than to say that each 7


### time I moved away from East Tennessee, I missed 8


### them terribly. I remember tearing up, in a 9


### California bookstore, just seeing a photograph of 10


### the Blue Ridge Mountains, swathed in those 11


### beautiful, familiar sh ades of blue and gray. 12


### Nothing ever seemed quite as beautiful as they 13



### are. 14



### The scientists who evaluate the air and 15


### the air currents tell us that the park is 16


### downwind of many sources of air pollution, 17


### including power plants, factories, vehicles, and 18


### agricu lture, sources that are both nearby and 19


### regional, such as the pollution stacks along the 20


### Ohio River, and industrial cities of the Midwest 21


### and Southeast, including Knoxville. 22

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### Power plants and pollution stacks are the 1


### key terms here. Burning coal is the ma jor 2


### contributor of not just one type of air 3


### pollution, but nearly all types. Sulfur dioxide 4


### causes acidification of soil and water. Nitrogen 5


### oxides cause ground

- level ozone. Mercury causes 6


### brain damage and heart problems, and arsenic 7



### causes cancer. The n there's lead and other heavy 8


### metals, and the particulate matter, which we 9


### breathe into our lungs. 10


### Particulates are also why people in 11


### Knoxville can no longer see Mount Le Conte, nor 12


### do visitors in the park have clear vistas as they 13


### try to see their way a cross the mountains. 14


### The toxic levels of acid deposition in 15


### the park exceed what scientists call "a critical 16


### load," meaning levels have surpassed those that 17


### are not likely to be harmful and are indeed 18


### inflicting damage, particularly on trees and 19


### aquatic li fe. 20


### Do you want to go fly

- fishing in a 21


### mountain stream? If we continue burning coal and 22

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### emitting sulfuric acid, that likely will not be 1


### possible, because neither the trout nor the 2


### insects they eat can survive in acidic water. 3


### Do you want to go on a wildfl ower hike 4


### like millions of other visitors to the park, to 5


### see rare flowering plants found only there? You 6


### should go now. And don't expect that your 7



### descendants will be able to do the same. Ozone 8


### is rough on these delicate herbs, burning away 9



### their leave s. These plants are not tough pioneer 10


### species, but require very special conditions and 11


### are as delicate as the Lady's Slipper. 12


### We often have orange alert days in 13


### Knoxville, when the media tell us to limit our 14


### time outdoors because of high levels of ground

15


### level ozone. We are advised to keep our children 16


### indoors because their sensitive and young lung 17


### tissue can be burned and irreparably damaged by 18


### the ground

- level ozone. 19


### I actually know how that feels. I myself 20


### experience some shortness of breath and devel op a 21


### slight cough when I'm outside during those times. 22

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### And I can tell you that on some days, you can't 1


### drive in Knoxville with your windows down. For 2


### me, I get a headache from the emissions and have 3


### to seal myself in, even on a beautiful spring or 4



### fall d ay. 5


### I want to ask, what were we thinking when 6


### we ignored the harmful effects of coal

- burning 7


### and didn't do enough to keep us from reaching 8


### this level of pollution? Instead, I respectfully 9


### ask that you, the Environmental Protection 10


### Agency, please fulfill y our mission to protect 11


### our environment, to significantly slow and reduce 12


### the amount of coal being burned, and restrict its 13



### use as an energy source. 14


### Thank you. 15


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 16


### MR. WATERMAN: Thank you. 17


### MS. TAYLOR: Thank you. 18



### MS. KEMKER: Our n ext two speakers are 19


### Edrichus Sykes

-- and if I pronounced that 20


### incorrectly, please forgive me and correct me

-- 21



### and Tom Sexton. 22

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### [Pause.] 1


### MS. KEMKER: Mr. Sykes, when you're 2


### ready, you may begin. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MR. SYKES: Good afternoon. Greetings. 5


### My name i s Edrichus Remond Sykes. And it's 6


### Edrichus, E

- d

- r

- i

- c

- h

- u

- s Sykes, S

- y

- k

- e

- s. 7


### Chairman Upton, Ranking Member Whitfield, 8


### and members of the subcommittee, thank you for 9


### convening this hearing and for providing the 10


### Climate Reality Project to testify. I am 11



### E drichus Remond Sykes, building physician, 12


### climate ambassador, and founder of Pure Green 13


### Coatings, a renewable and environmental firm here 14


### in Atlanta, Georgia. 15



### I'm a service

- disabled veteran

- owned 16


### small, socially economic, disadvantaged business 17


### enterprise headquartered in the Historic in

- town 18


### community of Vine City. 19



### I'll share a vision as the world we 20


### engage, live, and work in and play in, in harmony 21


### with nature. I have submitted my full statement 22

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### to the committee, which I ask to be made part of 1



### the hearin g record. I will now give a brief 2


### opening statement. 3


### I am present by choice and desire to help 4


### the committee with jurisdiction over energy and 5


### power. My involvement in this case is not simply 6


### a career endeavor and is more than my family 7


### history, as if th at would be enough. I come from 8


### a small rural village in West Point, Mississippi, 9


### where even when I was a youth, my great

10


### grandmother and great

- uncle collected rainwater 11


### and did further the energy conservation measures, 12


### and still to this day we collect ra inwater now in 13



### barrels. 14


### I beg you to make the most of the present 15


### opportunity and make it happen now. I urge 16


### adoption of the new carbon dioxide regulations 17


### for existing power plants, proposed rule of 18


### carbon pollution emission guidelines for existing 19



### stati onary sources. Pure Green Coatings, LLC, 20


### doing business at 81 Pure Green, was formed in 21


### March 2008 to provide energy conservation 22

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### measures that would result in energy or fossil 1


### fuel savings. 2


### 81 Pure Green is expanding worldwide by 3


### teaming with non

- governm ental organizations like 4



### Intellectual Decisions on Environmental 5


### Awareness, who has formed member organizations in 6



### various countries. 7


### PGC's outgrowth of American investment 8


### acts has resulted in its assisting even national 9



### and international non

- governmental offices for 10


### environment. Last year, August the 1st, they had 11



### their first

- time

- in

- history hailstorm, which 12


### resulted in devastation of crops after multiple 13


### mudslides as a result of climate change. 14


### Over 5,000 villagers were left hungry and 15



### in need of servic es while we provided aid and 16



### assistance. 17


### Some of the community partners that we 18


### currently work with includes the Climate Reality 19


### Project, where I am ambassador. In 2012, I was 20


### trained by former Vice President Al Gore to go 21


### out and give presentations. Sie rra Club, the 22

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### Citizens Climate Lobby, Green Chamber of the 1


### South, as well. 2


### I serve as building position and the CEO 3


### of this firm and work toward collaboratively 4


### setting a paradigm of energy performance for 5


### individuals suffering from carbon pollution, 6



### which is driving climate disruption, and we're 7


### all paying the costs. We're paying for it in 8


### dollars for higher health care bills. We're 9


### paying for it in lives devastated by extreme 10



### weather events. 11


### As a disaster inspector, working with the 12


### Department of Homela nd Security, I saw this 13



### firsthand in Hurricane Irene in New York and New 14


### Jersey, the first time many families

-- had never 15


### thought that they will see that type of issue or 16


### disaster. But after 50 years, they have seen 17



### that. 18


### Here in Georgia, we have made ve ry little 19


### changes. The state has not implemented any 20


### climate change policies. And action plans for 21


### its 2010 legislatives was not passed in a 22

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### resolution for Congress asking to adopt even cap

1



### and

- trade laws. 2


### We're also paying for it in lost jobs and 3



### everyw here imaginable. We can't afford these 4


### costs any longer. And it's time to take action 5


### by raising awareness of our campaign to support 6


### the Environmental Protection Agency's Clean Power 7


### Plan and other landmark federal, state, and local 8



### initiatives to cut c arbon pollution and replace 9


### dirty fossil fuels with clean, renewable energy. 10


### The Climate Reality Leadership Corps 11


### campaign, the People vs. Carbon, founded by Vice 12


### President Al Gore, Nobel Laureate, has provided 13


### education and establishing programs or servic es 14


### that can be replicated in multiple countries. 15


### The EPA has done its job drafting a plan 16


### that points the way forward for our climate, our 17


### health, and our economy. Now it's time for us 18


### citizens to work together through the People vs. 19



### Carbon so this landma rk measure becomes law. 20


### Accomplishing these goals includes 21


### educating families and professionals about green 22

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### color career pathways, proposed new clean color 1



### work

- ready job

- skills training programs, which 2


### could assist even the coal workers from, instead 3



### of w orking on fossil fuel

- related jobs, they have 4


### an opportunity to benefit from EPA's ruling on 5


### the Clean Power Plan by leveraging existing 6


### skills and experience in new, renewable 7


### environmental jobs now and in the future. 8


### This will also benefit seniors, non

9



### c ustodial parents, individuals in the State of 10


### Georgia who are currently under Fatherhood, and 11


### problem

- solving court programs, disabled, and 12


### other veterans, low

- income and moderate 13


### unemployed, unemployed, dislocated workers, along 14


### with people with disabilit ies, high school 15


### dropouts, and people with criminal records all 16


### living in low

- income and high

- poverty areas. 17


### We excel at utilizing high

- impact federal 18


### and state hiring and training programs. However, 19


### the President's Climate Action Plan, released by 20



### the Ex ecutive Office of the President June 2013, 21


### last year, was a groundbreaking first step toward 22

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### cutting carbon pollution in America. 1


### However, it is no secret that the U.S. is 2



### behind the curve of several other countries that 3


### have already taken on greenhouse ga s emissions, 4


### implemented renewable energy plans, which are in 5


### place or in process. We have a lot of homework 6


### to do, but we can learn a lot from what has 7


### already been done overseas, both in planning and 8


### political comment. 9


### Instead of digging for hidden trea sures, 10


### destroying our planet, we need to wake up and 11



### raise to a new level of consciousness where we 12


### utilize nature's gifts for our best benefit

-- 13


### sun, wind, and water. 14


### MS. KEMKER: Mr. Sykes, if you'll wrap it 15


### up soon. Thank you. 16



### MR. SYKES: The next cru cial step for a 17


### plan to provide the U.S. with more authority and 18


### leverage necessary to take a leadership role in 19


### the upcoming Climate Summit 2014 to be held in 20


### the United Nations and New York this September, 21


### as well as the following UN Climate Change 22

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### Confe rence in Lima, Peru. Why, even in Peru, 1


### they just implemented programs for low

- income 2


### individuals to receive free solar power. 3


### I'm going to end with a quote from John 4


### Lewis, a writer who was awarded the Presidential 5


### Medal of Freedom in 2010. He said, "I say to 6


### people today, 'You must be prepared if you 7


### believe in something. If you believe in 8


### something, you have to go for it. As 9


### individuals, we may not live to see the end.'" 10



### Anyone pro

- green? The Climate Reality 11


### Project looks forward to working with the members 12


### of the subcommittee to address the important 13


### issues raised in today's hearing. 14


### I thank you again for the opportunity to 15


### testify. And I'd be glad to answer any 16


### questions. 17


### MS. KEMKER: Thank you. 18


### At this point, I would like to thank 19


### everyone for th eir time, their interest. I know 20


### it takes time and, truly, dedication to be here 21


### today, both to comment and to be here to witness 22

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### those comments and to participate in the 1


### important process. 2


### We do want to hear from everyone. So 3


### thank you very much. We ar e going to take a 4


### brief recess until 10 after 6:00, at which time 5



### -- sorry, 20 after 6:00, at which time we will 6


### resume our hearing and opportunity to receive 7



### comments. 8


### Thank you. 9


### [Recess taken from 5:30 to 6:20 p.m.] 10



### EVENING SESSION 11



### PANEL NUMBER 3 12



### MS. BA NISTER: Good evening. My name is 13


### Beverly Banister. I'm the Air Director here in 14


### Region 4 in Atlanta, and I'm one of the Chairs of 15


### today's public hearing. 16


### Thank you for coming out this evening. 17


### Joining me on the panel this evening are 18



### Jeb Stenhouse. He' s the Air Program Manager with 19


### the Office of Air and Radiation, and he's part of 20



### our rule

- writing team. 21


### And we also have Daryl Weatherhead, who's 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### the Managing Economist on this team. 1


### Tonight we are here to listen to your 2


### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 3


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 4


### of these proposed rules on June 2nd, 2014. Power 5


### plants are the largest source of carbon pollution 6


### in the U.S., accounting for roughly one

- third of 7


### all domestic greenhouse gas emissions. 8



### The f irst rule is EPA's proposed Clean 9


### Power Plan for existing power plants. This 10


### proposal consists of two main parts: state

11


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 12


### power plants, and guidelines to help states 13


### develop their plans for meeting their goals. 14


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 15


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 16


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 17


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 18


### their goals by 2030. 19


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 20



### add ress carbon dioxide emissions from modified 21


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### set emission limits for two groups of power 1


### plants: those that make physical or operational 2


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 3


### achievable hourly rate of em issions; and those 4


### that replace components to such an extent that 5


### the new components exceed 50 percent of the 6


### capital cost of an entirely new compatible 7


### facility. 8


### If you would like more detail on either 9


### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 10



### availa ble near the registration desk. 11


### Today's hearing is one of four public 12


### hearings across the country this week on the two 13


### proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 14


### in each of these hearings, and I would like to 15


### thank you, for you've taken your time thi s 16


### evening to join us and share your comments. 17


### We've had a lot of people to sign up to 18


### speak during this hearing, and we want to hear 19


### from all of you. So, before we get started, I 20


### would like to go through a few housekeeping items 21


### and ground rules that will help make today's 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### hearing continue to run smoothly. 1


### First, please be sure you have checked in 2


### at the registration desk even if you are not 3


### planning to speak tonight. And if you signed up 4


### to speak online or by phone, but haven't told us 5


### that you're here, please step out to the 6


### registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 7


### you have arrived. 8


### Secondly, if you are a speaker, you are 9


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 10


### or Room B. This is Room B. Are you in the right 11


### room? If not, this would b e a good time to 12


### transition to the appropriate room. 13


### All right. Let's talk about how today's 14


### hearing would work. I will call speakers up in 15


### pairs. When your name is called, please come to 16



### the table in front of the room. 17


### When I call on you to speak, pl ease state 18


### your name and spell it for the court reporter. 19



### Your comments will be transcribed and included in 20


### the record of comments on the proposed rule. 21


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### give comments. We will have a light to help you 1



### know how much time you have left to speak. When 2


### the light turns from green to yellow, that you 3


### means you have one minute remaining. When it 4


### turns red, that's a signal to wrap up your 5


### testimony. The light will flash red and beep 6


### when you have spoken for five minutes, and then 7


### it will be time to stop. 8


### When you're finished speaking, please 9


### remain at the table until the person next to you 10


### has completed his or her testimony. 11


### We are here to listen to you tonight. 12


### However, a panel member may ask you questions or 13


### ask you to clarify your comments. I will then 14


### call up the next set of speakers, and so on. 15


### If you have brought a written copy of 16


### your testimony, please give that to the staff at 17


### the registration desk before you leave today. 18


### Because of the large number of people who 19


### have signed up to speak, and to be fair to 20


### everyone, we're going to have to strictly adhere 21



### to the five

- minute limit. 22

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### If you have additional comments that you 1


### would like to make, you can submit them

-- and we 2


### encourage you to submit them

-- in writing. L et 3


### me assure you that EPA gives just as much 4


### consideration to comments we receive in writing 5


### as we do to comments that we receive at public 6


### hearings like this one. So, if you have more 7


### that you would like to say, please submit it. 8



### Your comments will be r eviewed. 9


### There is still plenty of time to get 10


### written comments in, and there are comment cards 11


### available at the registration desk. Comments 12


### must be received by October 16th, 2014. 13


### We will put any written comments 14


### submitted today in the official docket for the 15


### proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 16


### written comments in other ways are available at 17


### the materials desk near the registration desk. 18


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 19


### tonight. We may take a break; it just depends on 20


### how long we are here. B ut we'll keep you posted 21


### as the night goes on. 22

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### If you have any questions, please see the 1


### staff at the registration desk, and someone will 2


### try to help you. 3


### Finally, I want to ask each of you to 4


### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 5


### tonight. We have p eople with a wide variety of 6


### views in the audience, and we want to hear from 7


### all of you. So we can do that and be fair to 8


### everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly. 9


### Even applause can slow things down, and we want 10


### to hear from everyone who has signe d up to speak. 11


### So, again, thank you for coming out 12


### tonight to share your comments on the EPA's 13


### proposed rules. Let's get started. 14


### I would like to invite Laura Brefogyle, 15



### B

- r

- e

- f

- o

- g

- y

- l

- e

-- make sure I pronounced that 16



### -- Eleanor Hand, H

- a

- n

- d. Would yo u please come 17



### up? 18


### [Pause.] 19


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much for 20


### joining us tonight. Would you like to begin? 21


### MS. HAND: Hello. My name is Eleanor 22

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### Hand, E

- l

- e

- a

- n

- o

- r H

- a

- n

- d. 1


### I live in Atlanta. Thank you for giving 2


### me the opportunity to tell my story an d express 3


### my views in support of the EPA Clean Power Plan. 4


### I and my family have personally 5


### experienced the effects of carbon pollution and 6


### have subsequently viewed the fine line between 7


### life and death. I will tell my story perched on 8



### a three

- legged stool. One leg is in Atlanta, one 9


### is in California, and one is in the Caribbean. 10


### One, my son almost died from asthma in 11


### Atlanta in 1988. My children grew up in the '80s 12


### and '90s. They suffered from asthma. We made 13


### five trips to the emergency room. These tri ps 14



### were in the late afternoon. The children had 15


### been playing outside in hot, polluted air trapped 16


### over the city. The skies were not blue. My 17


### child was turning blue. We arrived in the 18


### emergency room just in time to save him. 19


### I suffer from inflammatory j oint disease 20


### that is aggravated on Code Orange days. On these 21


### days, we've learned to stay inside and use air 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### filters. This is difficult and unnatural for a 1


### family that loves outdoor exercise, blue skies, 2



### and connection with nature. 3



### I wanted to send our m edical bills to 4


### Georgia Power. Georgia has the number

- one and 5



### number

- three most polluting power plants in the 6


### United States. My children have chosen to move 7


### to cleaner air in Vermont and Lake Tahoe, 8


### California. Georgia will be a healthier place 9



### for them to live in 2030 if Georgia has reduced 10


### the carbon emissions from power plants 44 percent 11



### below 2005 levels. 12


### Two. My daughter and her husband work in 13


### the winter ski industry in Lake Tahoe. Their 14


### jobs may disappear. The ski industry is 15


### teetering between frantic investments in 16



### artificial snow

- making and economic collapse 17


### after a decade of drought and low snowfall. Over 18


### the last decade, the winter tourism industry has 19


### lost an estimated $1 billion and as many as 20


### 27,000 jobs. 21



### This is the result of diminished snowfall 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### patterns. These figures were published in a 2012 1


### study commissioned by Protect Our Winters and the 2



### Natural Resources Defense Council. The authors 3


### write that failure to respond quickly to climate 4


### change, quote, "spells economic devastation for 5



### o ur winter sports industry deeply dependent upon 6


### predictable heavy snowfall," unquote. 7


### For decades, dirty power plants have been 8


### allowed to dump unlimited amounts of carbon into 9


### the air. Reducing carbon emissions from power 10


### plants may save some winter jobs in the sports 11


### industry. 12


### Three. In 1985, my children and I swam 13


### in wonder and awe among vital, colorful, and 14


### plentiful coral in the Caribbean. In 2011, I 15


### swam with shock and horror among the dying, 16



### bleached

- white, and scarce coral in those same 17



### Caribbean waters. Tropical coral reefs form the 18


### very foundation of marine diversity, and they 19


### protect our shorelines. 20


### Have you snorkeled or dived in the coral 21


### reefs of the Caribbean? In 1985, the corals in 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### the Caribbean were iridescent and green as spring 1



### leaves . Yellow and orange like ripening 2


### tomatoes, purple, pinks, royal blue, turquoise, 3


### shocking red all mixed together like an abstract 4


### painting. If you've not seen those reefs, it may 5



### be too late. 6


### In 2011, I returned to the Caribbean and 7



### snorkeled in areas f ar from human development. I 8


### saw reefs that were white and crumbling. There 9



### was an occasional "Aha! There's a bit of color 10


### over there." Whoa. Our grandchildren will only 11


### see pictures of vividly colored coral in history 12


### books, books that sit next to the dinosaur books 13



### on their shelves. 14


### Colorful algae living in the tissue of 15


### coral provide color and food to the coral. When 16



### the sea

- surface temperatures rise, these algae 17


### pack up and they move off, leaving the coral 18


### tissue white and hungry. 19



### The EPA website i ndicates a rise in sea

20


### surface temperatures of 0.13 degrees Fahrenheit 21


### for decades between 1901 and 2013. Additionally, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### they are absorbing

-- the oceans are absorbing 1


### CO2, 24 million tons every day. 2


### Viewing life on planet earth from my 3



### three

- legged stool, it seems the time is now, not 4


### later, to adopt the EPA Clean Power Plan. Time 5


### to stop debating, take care of our children's 6


### health, preserve jobs in industries that are 7


### collapsing as a result of climate disruption, and 8


### stop the destruction of ecosystems t hat sustain 9



### us. 10


### Thank you. 11


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 12


### Before you leave, Jeb, do ya'll have any 13


### questions? 14


### [No audible response.] 15


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you. 16


### [Pause.] 17



### MS. BANISTER: I would now like to invite 18


### up Michael Wall and Jim Nichols. 19


### [Pause.] 20


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you, gentlemen, for 21


### being with us tonight. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Michael, would you state your name and 1


### spell it for the court reporter? 2


### MR. WALL: My name is Michael Wall, M

- i

3



### c

- h

- a

- e

- l W

- a

- l

- l. 4



### I'm a seventh

- generation Georgia farmer, 5



### and I'm Director of Programs for Georgia 6


### Organics, the nonprofit organization for the 7


### state's organic and sustainable agricultural 8


### community. We have about 1,700 members 9


### statewide, 300 of which are farmers, organic and 10



### sustainable farmers. 11


### Even in the most ideal conditions, 12


### farming has never been easier. Lately, it's been 13


### getting a lot tougher. Farmers in Georgia have 14


### already begun to experience extreme weather 15



### events

-- intense freezes, droughts, floods, and 16


### many of the other symptoms climate change 17



### scientists have been w arning us about for 18



### decades. 19


### The prediction for Georgia's climate and 20


### her agriculture industry are grim. According to 21


### a Georgia Tech report, climate change has the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### potential to decrease the availability of water 1


### resources due to probable changes in rainfa ll 2



### distribution. Most climate models and studies 3


### consistently forecast more storms, or scientists 4


### prefer "heavy precipitation events." 5


### Another study by the American Security 6


### Project estimates that temperatures in Georgia 7


### could rise by 4.5 degrees Fahrenhe it in winter 8


### and 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit in summer, accompanied 9


### by a 5 percent increase in annual precipitation. 10


### For those reasons and many more, I'm here 11


### to support EPA's efforts to curb carbon dioxide 12


### emissions from power plants. As a proud 13


### Georgian, I l ook forward to the day when my state 14


### is no longer home to the two of the top five 15



### carbon

- emitting power plants in the country. 16


### Thank you for listening to the people 17


### whose livelihoods will be improved by this 18


### important new regulation, and not just the energ y 19


### companies. 20


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 21


### MR. NICHOLS: My name is Jim Nichols, J

22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### i

- m N

- i

- c

- h

- o

- l

- s. 1


### I am a resident of Stockbridge in Henry 2


### County here in Georgia, and I'm here today to 3


### speak out in support of the new proposed Clean 4



### Power Plan. 5


### I'm currently running for Statehouse, but 6


### I wanted to come speak to you not as a 7


### politician, but as someone who comes from a 8


### generation that's seen a pattern of failures of 9


### judgment from government officials and agencies 10


### over my lifetime. 11


### As someone born in 1980, depen ding on 12


### which sociologist you read, I'm either at the 13


### tale end of Generation X, or the start of Y and 14



### the Millennial Generation. 15



### From the run

- up to the Iraq War to the 16



### run

- up of the housing bubble, without fail, 17


### government officials and agencies that had i t 18


### within their power to do the right thing and make 19


### the tough decisions to avert major crises and 20



### avert needless devastation have failed to act. 21


### Each time, they have failed to take the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### information they had in front of them and stop 1


### the impending crisis be fore it was too late. 2


### The climate crisis is very real. As 3


### experts, you have in front of you all the science 4


### you need. As experts, you have in front of you 5


### all the economics you need to do a cost

- benefit 6


### analysis and see that failing to shift our energy 7


### consumption and the structure of our energy 8


### markets towards clean, sustainable, eternal 9


### energies will cost us far more by not acting 10



### sooner rather than later. 11


### Former Treasury Secretary and current Co

12


### Chairman of the Foreign Relations, Robert Rubin, 13



### wrote a n op

- ed recently in the Washington Post, 14


### noting that ignoring climate change could 15


### literally sink the U.S. economy. 16


### So I know you have all the information in 17


### front of you to come to the correct policy 18


### decision, but I felt compelled to come speak to 19


### you tod ay to be sure that the truly pivotal 20


### question, the one that led government agencies 21


### and government officials to make the wrong 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### decisions in the run

- up to the Iraq War and the 1



### run

- up of the economic crisis, was answered for 2



### you. 3


### I want to tell you with 100 percent 4


### confidence that the political will on the ground 5


### is there to stand with you as you make the right 6


### decisions, no matter how politically unpopular it 7


### may be within some sectors of our economy. 8


### The power is in your hand to do the right 9


### thing and take action on climate change. Know 10


### that all across this country there are people 11


### like me, organizing in their communities to stand 12


### with you if you make the right decision. 13


### The purpose of government is to protect 14


### and empower its citizens. You have the power t o 15


### do the right thing for our climate, for our 16


### economy, and for generations of Americans to 17


### come. Use it, and we will stand with you. 18


### Thank you. 19


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much. 20


### Do either one of you have questions? 21


### [No audible response.] 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MS. BANISTER: Ok ay. 1


### Thank you both. We appreciate your 2



### comments. 3


### [Pause.] 4


### MS. BANISTER: I would like to invite up 5


### Alex Solomon and also Sam Brefogyle, B

- r

- e

- f

- o

- g

6



### y

- l

- e. 7


### [Pause.] 8


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you. 9


### Alex, would you like to

-- first of all, 10


### thank you for c oming tonight. And if you would 11


### state your name and spell it for the court 12



### reporter. 13


### MR. SOLOMON: Sure. My name is Alex 14



### Solomon. And that's A

- l

- e

- x S

- o

- l

- o

- m

- o

- n. 15


### So, good evening. Thank you guys for 16


### being here, as well. I'm from Atlanta, 17


### originally, by way of New Jersey. I work as an 18


### engineer. I'm a Member of the Southeastern 19


### Alliance for Clean Energy. And I'm here today as 20


### a private citizen. I'm speaking in support of 21


### the carbon reduction targets proposed in the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 445

- 3376434



### Clean Power Plan. 1



### When I was a li ttle kid, I dreamt that 2


### one day I'd buy a Cadillac Eldorado. Now, for 3


### those who are not familiar, this is an absolutely 4



### massive two

- door car, sleek low profile, that 5



### boat

- leg gurgling of an American muscle V8, and 6


### four gleaming chrome tailpipes, which to me, as 7


### an eight

- year

- old boy, signified the ultimate 8



### cool. 9


### Now, one might call this a classic 10


### boyhood dream for a reason. We grow up, and we 11


### grow out of these dreams. We get a little older, 12



### and we learn a little bit more. And as it turns 13


### out, the '90s

- e ra Cadillac Eldorado was not a 14


### great car. It was clunky, had the gas mileage of 15



### a mid

- sized SUV, was unreliable, and as far as 16


### reputations go, you could often spot a comb

- over 17



### hairdo in the driver's seat. 18


### [Laughter.] 19


### MR. SOLOMON: You see, just like my Ca ddy 20


### aspirations, we need to reevaluate and redefine 21


### our dreams and ambitions for power generation. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 3376 Toll Free: 888

- 445

- 3376435



### The fact is we know better now than we used to. 1


### We know that what's coming out of our fossil fuel 2


### stacks is having an adverse effect on our world. 3



### We alrea dy feel the effects of our 4


### heating earth, our record

- setting droughts, our 5


### energized oceans. This was most recently 6


### reconfirmed by the fifth report of the UN's 7


### Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 8



### 2013. 9



### But even with all the data and hard 10



### science on our side, I believe it doesn't take an 11


### advanced degree to feel the effects of climate 12


### change firsthand. You've already heard a lot of 13


### personal stories today, and I think everyone in 14


### this room has a personal tie. 15


### Two years ago, in the wake of Super

- stor m 16


### Sandy, I watched the endless news cycle of my 17


### favorite beach from childhood, Seaside Heights, 18



### New Jersey

-- and, yes, that's the same one of 19


### MTV Jersey Shore fame

-- literally falling into 20


### the churning ocean, decimated by a storm no one 21


### could have imagin ed. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 445

- 3376436



### With these proposed actions, the Clean 1


### Air Act has a meaningful way to regulate carbon 2


### dioxide for the very first time. If we take 3


### Georgia as an example, though our state has 4


### reduced its coal use in the last few years, 33 5


### percent of our power is still coming from coal, 6


### according to the EIA. 7


### Now, enter the Clean Power Plan. Based 8


### on Georgia's renewables and efficiency 9


### possibilities, this plan has taken a real look at 10


### Georgia's immense potential for renewables and 11


### energy efficiency. 12



### The Clean Power Plan has given us a goal 13


### for a 44 percent reduction in 2012 emissions by 14


### the year 2030. And this would make Georgia a 15



### standout leader in the Southeast for clean air. 16


### I think that's not only possible, but really 17


### exciting. 18


### To me, cutting our emissions and figh ting 19


### climate change is about making an informed choice 20


### as we get older, wiser, and we rethink our 21


### dreams. Instead of an Eldorado, nowadays I 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### prefer to ride my bike when I can. Instead of 1


### hanging on to antiquated coal plants of the past, 2


### the new, rethough t dream for power generation 3


### uses more renewables and improves efficiency. 4


### In short, we know what we have to do. We 5


### have the tools to do it. I support the Clean 6


### Power Plan. I support its goal for reducing 7


### carbon emissions. I support this new, adult 8



### dre am. It's time for us to grow up. 9


### Thank you to the EPA for your work, and 10


### thank you for your time. 11


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 12


### Do you have any questions, clarifying 13



### comments? 14


### [No audible response.] 15


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much for 16


### coming out tonight. 17



### Ok ay. Now, I would like to invite up 18



### Amelia Shenstone and Alan Hancock. 19


### [Pause.] 20


### [Inaudible interjection.] 21


### MS. BANISTER: Oh, okay. That's fine. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Is Alan here? 1


### [No audible response.] 2



### MS. BANISTER: What about F. G. 3


### Beauregard? 4


### [No audible response.] 5


### [Paus e.] 6


### MS. BANISTER: Hello. Thank you for 7


### coming out tonight. 8


### MS. SHENSTONE: Thank you all for 9


### staying. 10


### MS. BANISTER: No problem. 11


### Would you state your name and spell it 12


### for the court reporter? 13


### MS. SHENSTONE: Certainly. 14



### MS. BANISTER: You can

-- since we are a 15


### little bit early, you can just take your time and 16


### get your papers together before you get started. 17



### MS. SHENSTONE: Thanks. 18


### [Pause.] 19


### MS. SHENSTONE: My name is Amelia 20



### Shenstone. That's A

- m

- e

- l

- i

- a S

- h

- e

- n

- s

- t

- o

- n

- e. 21


### I would like to begin by commendi ng the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### EPA for publishing this draft rule to responsibly 1


### and achievably limit carbon pollution. Keeping 2


### the rule at least as strong as it is now in its 3


### final version is essential to saving people and 4


### places that I hold dear. 5



### The first time I heard about t he 6


### greenhouse effect and global warming was in my 7


### ninth grade Earth Science class. We learned 8


### about it just as we learned about the hole in the 9


### ozone layer and acid rain. Since America had 10


### joined with the world to tackle these problems, I 11



### assumed that we would do the same for carbon. I 12


### didn't appreciate the vast political challenges 13



### at the time. 14


### Yet, the faith I was raised in, Unitarian 15


### Universalism, calls me to be part of making the 16


### world I live in a better place. So I've tried to 17


### do my part, and I've lived in the shadow of 18


### mountaintop removal in West Virginia, working to 19


### bring renewable energy to the coal fields. I've 20



### talked with thousands of coastal Louisianans 21



### about the storm

- surge protection they're losing 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### as the seas rise and marshes are cut away by oil 1


### and gas companies. 2


### Today, I'm an organizer with the Southern 3


### Alliance for Clean Energy, working to reduce our 4


### dependence on coal for electricity; increase 5


### opportunities for smart energy choices like 6


### efficiencies, solar, and wind, mainly in Georgia 7



### a nd Alabama. And I understand the political 8


### challenges a little better now. 9


### I work on clean energy because it's the 10


### intersection of environmental justice and 11


### economic justice

-- the creation of wealth that 12


### can benefit everyone. 13



### It's essential to the most v ulnerable 14


### among us, those who cannot relocate, for example, 15


### as their inland communities become high

- rent 16


### beachfront real estate in Miami, or those who 17


### need help to fix up old leaky homes so they're 18


### not air conditioning their back yard and paying 19


### for that, who then suffer even more as heat waves 20


### increase. These are often the people who have 21


### the least say in how energy decisions are made. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### I'm here today to urge EPA to not let 1


### utility companies convince you or anyone else 2


### that consumers will necessarily pay m ore as a 3



### result of the rule to meet carbon emission 4


### limits. If customers pay more, it will likely be 5


### because utilities like Georgia Power and Alabama 6


### Power and their friendly regulators choose to 7


### prioritize profits over cost

- saving benefits to 8



### bill

- payers

. 9


### Some utilities like TVA are moving in the 10


### right direction, where others may need stronger 11


### guidance from EPA. 12


### I'd like to tell a story about one 13


### utility, Alabama Power, as an example. Between 14


### this year and 2018, Alabama Power will spend over 15


### $1 billion t o keep its old coal plants operating, 16


### on top of a couple of billion they've already 17


### spent. The company earns a roughly 13.5 percent 18


### guaranteed profit, about 40 percent higher than 19


### the industry average, around 10 percent profit. 20


### Basically, the more they s pend, the more they 21



### make. So it's no wonder that when it comes to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### future energy resources, they choose an expensive 1


### approach. 2


### Unfortunately, Alabama does not require a 3


### transparency comparison of the costs of energy 4


### generation choices, so there's virtually no check 5


### on this profit incentive. The lack of balance 6


### between profit and prudence is what really hurts 7



### rate payers. 8



### Would rates be lower for Alabama Power 9


### customers if the company followed the lead of 10


### many Southeastern peers and let some coal 11


### capacity g o, and invest it instead in cleaner 12


### sources, particularly energy efficiency programs? 13


### I believe the answer is yes. 14



### And EPA's own research confirms that 15


### prioritizing energy efficiency and renewables in 16


### efforts to comply with the Clean Power Plan will 17



### in fa ct lower rates over time. We also know that 18


### energy efficiency lowers bills, and that is a win 19



### for consumers

-- no question. 20


### The potential to create a comparison 21


### process that fairly values energy efficiency and 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### renewables as generation resources is one of the 1


### many potential benefits of this rule. But given 2


### the profit incentive of the status quo, we can 3


### expect utilities to protest and the elected 4


### officials to whom they contribute to remain in 5


### lockstep. 6


### So, when you feel pressure to back off, I 7


### hope that you will remember why you chose to work 8


### in environmental protection and stay strong for 9


### the solutions we need to protect our planet and 10


### the people. Help these utilities see the 11


### tremendous power you've given them to use 12


### creative, clean solutions. And give th is country 13


### the strong final carbon pollution rule we've 14



### needed since before I was a kid. 15


### Thank you. 16


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 17


### Any comments, clarifying comments, or 18


### questions? 19


### [No audible response.] 20


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you so much. 21


### [Pause.] 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 3376444



### MS. BA NISTER: Is Everly Jazi, J

- a

- z

- i, 1



### in the room? 2


### [No audible response.] 3



### MS. BANISTER: What about Alan Hancock? 4


### [No audible response.] 5


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Eva Laura or Sam

-- 6


### how would you pronounce this? Brefogyle, yes, B

7



### r

- e

- f

- o

- g

- y

- l

- e. That's it. 8



### [ No audible response.] 9


### MS. BANISTER: So what we will do right 10


### now is, we will take a break unless there is 11



### someone in the audience that has

-- oh, we have 12


### another name? Okay. I'm sorry. 13



### Is Mark Woodall in? 14


### [Inaudible interjection.] 15



### MS. BANISTER: Great. Sorry about that. 16


### Come on up. We look forward to hearing your 17



### comments. 18


### [Pause.] 19


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you for coming 20


### tonight. 21


### MR. WOODALL: Well, thank you for having 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### this hearing in Atlanta. 1


### My name is Mark Woodall. That's M

- a

- r

- k 2


### Woodall, W

- o

- o

- d

- a

- l

- l. I'm the Chairman of the 3



### Executive Committee of the Sierra Club here in 4


### Georgia. So, on behalf of our 10,000 members or 5


### so in Georgia, we'd like to thank the EPA for 6



### this historic first

- ever proposed carbon rule, a 7



### much

- needed step. 8



### We do think ther e are some of the 9


### building blocks that could be improved. We used 10


### to say pretty often that the Southern Company, 11


### including Georgia Power, was the worst utility in 12



### the world when it came to renewables. 13


### But the times are changing. As you heard 14



### Commissioner Bubba McDonald mention this morning, 15


### by 2017, Georgia Power will have over

-- well, 16


### almost 900 megawatts of solar installed in 17


### Georgia. 18



### And that's without distributed 19


### generation, really, being able to take off, 20



### because we don't allow third

- party financing in 21


### Georgia, which is the fastest

- growing distributed 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### generation in places like California. It's 1


### growing faster than any other count of solar 2


### power. So we're doing that with one hand tied 3


### behind our back, basically. 4


### And as you also heard the commissioner s 5


### mention this morning, over 250 megawatts of wind 6


### is on the way, from the Midwest, approved by the 7


### PSC. And as best I could tell from listening to 8


### the PSC proceedings, solar and wind are putting 9


### downward pressure on rates in Georgia. So that's 10


### certainly good news for the environment and the 11



### economy. 12


### Unfortunately, I think it's still 13


### accurate to say the Southern Company, including 14


### Georgia Power, Alabama Power, and Mississippi 15



### Power

-- it's still probably the worst utility in 16



### the world when it comes to ene rgy efficiency. 17


### I think Chairman Eaton said this morning, 18


### first thing, which seems like a week ago, 19


### actually, that Georgia Power was going to be 20


### spending $5 million over 10 years for demand

- side 21


### management. Five million dollars sounds like a 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### joke, but I t hink that's what he said. 1


### Of course, right now, over there at 2


### Vogtle 3 and 4, Georgia Power and the other 3


### utilities involved, Vogtle 3 and 4 are spending, 4


### I don't know, $10, $12, $14, $20 billion on two 5


### nukes. I saw analysis from an energy efficiency 6



### guy who looked at what you could do with that 7


### kind of money. I mean, you could weatherize 8


### every house in Georgia. 9


### So when utilities claim that they're 10


### concerned about the poor folks, and you look at 11


### what they're doing, I think it would do a lot 12


### more for the p oor folks in Georgia to weatherize 13


### houses and push energy efficiency than putting 14


### all that kind of money in the ground over there. 15


### One thing that's not commonly known about 16


### the bill that passed in Georgia in 2009, Senate 17


### Bill 31, was nuclear construction w ork in 18



### progress

-- that bill met some initial resistance 19


### from the large industrials, as you might imagine, 20


### who might have to foot the bill. 21


### But what happened was the people with 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### interruptible rates were pretty well cut out of 1


### the new construction work in p rogress that's 2


### showing up on every residential customer's bill. 3


### So that's what we're getting right now. 4



### We heard several times that we should 5


### leave the State of Georgia alone, and the Federal 6


### Government was getting outside of its authority. 7



### And it seems i ronic that we should talk 8


### that way or hear that. It was exactly 150 years 9


### ago and one week a few miles to the east of here 10


### when the Battle of Atlanta was fought, with over 11


### 9,000 casualties. And that pretty well wound up 12


### states' rights around here. 13



### You mi ght recall the City of Atlanta fell 14


### almost two months later, and Abraham Lincoln was 15



### reelected. So I believe the Constitution of the 16


### United States, the Supremacy Clause and the rest 17


### of it, is still there regardless of what happened 18



### before then. 19



### So I would look back to what we've heard 20


### about other regulations. They were playing the 21


### greatest clips from past regulations that have 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### been put in over the last 30

- 40 years, like the 1


### acid rain regulations, all the claims that the 2


### sky was going to fall, rates were g oing to go up 3


### some ridiculous amount, none of which ever came 4



### to pass. 5



### So one of the comments from one of those 6


### folks stuck with me. It was the person that was 7


### speaking in favor of the acid rain regulations. 8


### He said, "Anybody that opposes this regulation is 9


### just showing selfish indifference to future 10


### generations." 11


### So I would urge the EPA to continue on 12



### with this rule and take a look at some of the 13


### building blocks which really could be a lot 14


### stronger in Georgia, like energy efficiency and 15



### solar and other r enewables, and do what we can 16


### for future generations. 17


### Thank you. 18


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 19


### Any questions or clarifying comments? 20


### [No audible response.] 21


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you so much. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 3376450



### Is Cassandra Webster here? 1


### [No audible response.] 2



### MS. BANISTE R: And also, is Alan Hancock? 3


### [No audible response.] 4


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you both for joining 5


### us tonight. 6


### Cassandra, you could start and just say 7


### your name and spell it for the court reporter. 8


### MS. WEBSTER: Okay. Cassandra Webster. 9



### That's C

- a

- s

- s

- a

- n

- d

- r

- a Webster, W

- e

- b

- s

- t

- e

- r. 10


### And I may begin? 11



### MS. BANISTER: Yes. 12


### MS. WEBSTER: Good evening. My name is 13



### Cassandra Webster. A brief introduction: I am a 14


### rare native Atlantan. I went to college up the 15


### street at Emory. After graduating, I taught 16


### Engli sh in Seoul, South Korea, for a year before 17


### coming home and serving as an America Vista at a 18


### middle school on the east side of the city. 19


### I am now studying for a Master's in 20


### Public Administration at Georgia State University 21


### and working in local government i n the metro 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 445

- 3376451



### area. 1


### Thank you for the opportunity to, in the 2


### words of Leslie Knope, "care loudly" at you. 3


### [Laughter.] 4


### MS. WEBSTER: Climate change is one of, 5


### if not the biggest social justice issue in the 6


### world right now, and will continue to be in the 7



### indef inite future if we do not make significant 8


### changes at systemic levels. Carbon pollution is 9


### a major cause of climate change and hurts our 10



### health. 11


### I am concerned for my health, because I, 12


### like so many of us, breathe air. I am a 13


### privileged person, though, i n many ways, and am 14


### lucky to live near no coal

- fired power plants. I 15


### don't live in an area of the city with 16


### particularly bad air quality. And I don't have 17


### asthma, though it seems like half of my friends 18



### did when I was a kid. 19


### Atlanta isn't even projected to be one of 20


### the places to suffer the more severe consequences 21


### of climate change, though undoubtedly we will all 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 3376452



### experience some issues we are unprepared for. I 1


### don't know if you've heard, but we don't exactly 2



### do well with snow down here. 3


### [Laughter.] 4



### MS. WEBSTER: Being relatively 5


### privileged, my energy consumption contributes to 6


### the negative effects of carbon pollution 7


### disproportionately experienced by low

- income 8


### people, people of color, children, and the 9


### elderly. I would love to change that, for 10


### example, by putting solar panels on my roof. But 11


### at the moment, I live in an apartment and do not 12


### have that option. 13


### Georgia Power has the option to invest in 14


### clean energy, though, and they choose not to. 15


### I'm one of many customers who would prefer to 16



### consume ener gy from renewable sources, but that 17


### company essentially has a monopoly on my 18


### business. And to say that they don't have great 19



### customer service would be a ludicrous 20



### understatement. 21


### Southern Company is the third

- largest 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### corporate air polluter in the United S tates. 1


### Georgia Power owns the first

- and third

- largest 2


### carbon polluters in the country. Plant Scherer, 3


### near Macon, Georgia, pollutes 21 million tons 4


### annually, the equivalent of 4.5 million cars. 5


### And in Atlanta, we have plenty of cars polluting 6



### our air a s it is. 7


### This is the part where you come in. The 8


### Clean Power Plan has the potential to encourage 9


### Georgia Power and similar companies to invest in 10


### clean energy. I support this plan. I wish I 11


### could say I'm excited about it, but really 12



### there's a more accur ate description of my 13


### feelings. We should all be embarrassed that we 14


### as a nation have done nothing to significantly 15


### address climate change before now. 16


### We need to go further, though. Please 17


### consider strengthening the plan by increasing 18


### carbon pollution re duction. We could reduce 19


### carbon by 40 percent below 2005 levels by 2020. 20


### Many states are already moving quickly towards 21


### this goal, and other states could reach this goal 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### if the plan required them to do so. 1


### Also, states should meet the new 2



### standards throu gh renewable energy and 3


### efficiencies because this is the fastest, 4


### cleanest, and most cost

- effective solution. 5


### States can meet targets without increasing our 6


### use of dirty and dangerous energy sources like 7


### nuclear or natural gas. 8


### Finally, please ensure that affected 9


### communities are engaged throughout the process 10


### and that public resources are available to help 11


### workers and communities as they make the 12


### transition to a clean energy economy. I would 13


### love to see the plan strengthened. But speaking 14


### frankly, I app reciate your efforts to do anything 15


### at all to finally begin to cut carbon emissions. 16


### Thank you for your time and attention. 17


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 18



### Alan? 19


### MR. HANCOCK: Good evening. My name is 20



### Alan Hancock. That's A

- l

- a

- n H

- a

- n

- c

- o

- c

- k. I'm 21


### the Progra m Director at Conservation Voters of 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### South Carolina. Thank you for this opportunity 1


### to comment on this important proposal. 2



### The mission of Conservation Voters of 3



### South Carolina is to make conservation and 4


### environmental issues a top priority among South 5



### Car olina's elected leaders, political candidates, 6


### and voters. Conservation Voters is the only 7


### nonpartisan, nonprofit, statewide organization 8


### holding elected officials accountable for a safe, 9


### clean, and healthy South Carolina. 10



### Conservation Voters of South Car olina 11


### supports EPA's Clean Power Plan. We have an 12


### obligation to our children and future generations 13


### to address climate change. President Obama in 14


### his radio address the Saturday before EPA 15


### released the proposal said, quote, "I refuse to 16



### condemn our childr en to a planet that's beyond 17


### fixing," unquote. 18


### The Clean Power Plan helps to meet this 19


### obligation by limiting carbon pollution from 20


### power plants, which accounts for 40 percent of 21


### the carbon pollution dumped in the atmosphere 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 3376456



### each year. The plants that emi t carbon pollution 1



### also emit harmful chemicals like oxides of 2


### nitrogen, sulfur dioxide, and mercury. 3


### Limiting the use of coal

- fired power 4


### plants will reduce instances of childhood asthma 5


### and other cardiovascular and respiratory 6


### illnesses. Warmer days and nights will 7


### exacerbate air pollution problems by enhancing 8



### the formation of ozone in our cities. 9


### South Carolina, and the Southeast more 10


### broadly, will experience climate change in other 11


### ways as well. The National Climate Assessment 12


### released in May of this year detailed these 13


### impacts. The sea level will rise, threatening 14


### the historic City of Charleston and special 15


### places in South Carolina like Hunting Island and 16



### Edisto Beach. 17


### Just yesterday, NOAA released a report on 18


### the increase in flooding days since the 1950s. 19



### And Charleston has seen an increase of 409 20


### percent. That comes with a cost, a cost that we 21


### are already paying in South Carolina. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Warm spells in the summer threaten 1


### agriculture and farming as well. In the summer 2


### of 2012, Columbia reached 113 degre es, an all

3



### time record for all of South Carolina. That kind 4


### of heat damages crops and livestock. With 5


### climate change, we'll see more of that. 6


### EPA has recognized its legal obligation 7



### under the Clean Air Act to address carbon 8


### pollution from power plants. We agree the Clean 9


### Air Act compels EPA to act on climate, and we 10


### applaud EPA's unprecedented stakeholder outreach. 11


### I attended the listening session here in 12


### Atlanta last October, and EPA's staff from Region 13


### 4 and Headquarters have come to South Carolina to 14


### meet with our stakeholders. States, conservation 15


### groups, investor in utilities pressed EPA for a 16


### flexible plan, a plan that would take into 17


### account each state's unique energy mix. 18


### And EPA listened to those requests. The 19


### best system of emissions reduction formula takes 20


### into account the energy efficiency and renewable 21


### potential from each state. EPA considered how 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### much gas capacity is available. EPA considered 1


### new nuclear development. 2



### We can discuss the numbers and the 3


### assumption, particularly on things li ke nuclear, 4



### as we are in South Carolina. But the overall 5


### approach is sound. In South Carolina, EPA's 6


### early outreach last fall supported the 7



### stakeholder effort that the state environmental 8


### regulator, the Department of Health and 9


### Environmental Control, or DHEC, initiated after 10


### President Obama announced his climate plan last 11



### June. 12


### DHEC has involved utility regulators, 13


### electric cooperatives, investor

- owned utilities, 14


### the public utility, community groups, and 15


### conservation groups. DHEC's leadership on this 16



### iss ue has led to productive conversations that 17


### will lead to better policies that considers every 18


### group's input. 19


### We appreciate the time that the EPA has 20


### taken to assist our state and all states, except 21


### for maybe Vermont. I think they're exempt on 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### this rule. This is the essence of cooperative 1


### federalism, and that is the model on which the 2



### Clean Air Act rests. With states and the EPA 3


### working together, the Clean Power Plan can 4



### succeed. 5


### EPA has provided flexibility to states. 6


### But we respectfully ask that EPA co ntinue to 7


### support state regulators in providing technical 8


### guidance on how to implement and analyze the 9


### rule. By carefully considering implementation at 10


### the state level, EPA can ensure the successful 11


### outcomes that the President's climate plan 12



### envisions. 13



### St ate plans will more efficiently meet 14


### EPA's goals than a federal plan imposed on 15



### states. EPA can avoid the need to consider a 16


### federal plan by continuing to spend the time now 17


### on assisting states. 18


### South Carolina expects to see a growth in 19


### clean energy jobs, like solar installation, as a 20



### result of the Clean Power Plan. We're excited 21


### about those jobs. They pay well, and they can't 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### be outsourced. With these clean energy jobs, 1


### lower power bills from energy efficiency 2


### measures, and the fewer health and environ mental 3


### impacts, we expect a positive economic impact 4


### from these protections. 5


### Thank you again for the opportunity to 6


### comment on the proposed Clean Power Plan. We at 7


### Conservation Voters of South Carolina support 8


### EPA's broad goals in this proposal, and we lo ok 9


### forward to working with our colleagues in South 10


### Carolina to ensure successful implementation. 11


### Thank you. 12


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 13


### Do ya'll have any questions? 14


### [No audible response.] 15


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you so much 16


### for coming out tonight. 17


### Okay . Everly Jazi, J

- a

- z

- i? There we 18



### go. 19


### [Pause.] 20


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you for coming out 21


### tonight to share your comments. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MS. JAZI: Thanks. 1


### MS. BANISTER: Please state your name and 2


### spell it for the court reporter. 3


### MS. JAZI: It's Everly Jazi, E

- v

- e

- r

- l

- y 4



### J

- a

- z

- i. 5


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. You may begin. 6


### MS. JAZI: Hi. Starting when I was four 7


### years old, I would sometimes feel out of breath 8


### and start wheezing, my mom panicking and calling 9


### my pediatrician, who had a Mickey Mouse watch 10


### just like me. He didn't gi ve me much advice and 11


### just telling my mom to have me stand in front of 12



### the freezer and breathe the cold air. 13


### But one night when I was nine, the 14


### freezer method didn't work. I started wheezing 15


### uncontrollably. My mom drove me to the emergency 16



### room of the Ch ildren's Hospital. I never painted 17


### my nails when I was little, but I remember that 18


### day I had sparkly nail polish on, and when the 19


### nurse went to take my oxygen test with the 20


### pulsometer, she had to scratch off the nail 21


### polish to get an accurate reading in m y finger. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### They put a facemask on me and turned the 1


### machine on. We didn't have cable at my house, so 2


### I was really excited to watch the new SpongeBob 3


### on the hospital TV. The doctors explained that I 4


### had just had an asthma attack and showed my mom 5



### how to us e my cool new nebulizer. 6


### My pediatrician prescribed many 7


### medications, like singulair or advair. The 8


### medications didn't do that great, because I still 9


### had to be hooked up to the nebulizer when I felt 10


### an attack coming on and sit on the couch watching 11



### one of our seven TV channels while having a mask 12


### over my face. 13


### When I was in high school, I read a lot 14


### of articles about cases of asthma and allergies 15


### across the nation. The cities listed with many 16


### cases had a lot of coal nearby. Atlanta 17


### repeatedly made the li st. 18


### But I think what surprised me the most 19


### was that Dayton, Ohio, where I was born and where 20


### I lived for 10 years, always made the list. To 21


### me, it was such a random city that would be 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### picked out. It was so random that it would be 1


### picked out in national articles. 2


### I definitely don't have the most severe 3



### case of asthma in the nation. But I haven't had 4


### an asthma attack in over five years, thanks in 5


### part to my inhaler that I carry around 6


### everywhere. But I do think that living in a 7



### state that burns a lot of coal and has a lot of 8


### pollution influenced my life. 9


### When thinking about your position on this 10


### issue, I would like to urge you to consider the 11


### over 25 million Americans living with asthma, the 12


### almost 1.9 million asthma attacks that make up 13


### the approximately one

- fourth of all emergency 14


### room visits, and the almost $56 billion that the 15


### asthma spends on

-- that the United States spends 16


### on asthma annually. 17


### I know that you all have or know someone 18


### who has asthma. And I'd like you to think of 19



### them. No one should have to sacrifice their 20


### health for dirty energy. I support the Clean 21


### Power Plan so we can clean up our air and keep 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### our children healthy. 1


### Thank you. 2


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. Thank you for 3


### coming out tonight. 4


### [Pause.] 5


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. I would like to 6


### invite Marianne Garber and Stephen Garber to the 7


### podium. 8



### [Pause.] 9


### [Inaudible conversation and laughter.] 10


### MS. BANISTER: Take your time. Take your 11



### time. 12


### MS. GARBER: Yes, he will introduce 13



### himself as me. 14


### [Laughter.] 15


### MS. BANISTER: First of all, we'd ju st 16


### like to say thank you all for coming tonight. 17


### MS. GARBER: No. Thank you. Thank you. 18


### MS. BANISTER: And for moving us up 19


### earlier. Hey, it's good. It's good. 20



### MS. GARBER: Whatever. I know it's been 21


### a long day. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MS. BANISTER: We'll give you a minute to 1


### get your papers together. 2


### MS. GARBER: My name is Marianne Daniels 3



### Garber. I'm born and raised in Atlanta. I have 4


### a Ph.D. in Educational Leadership and 5


### Psycholinguistics, and have been in private 6


### practice as an educational consultant at the 7



### Behavioral Institute of Atlanta for the last 30 8



### years or more. 9


### I'm not a scientist, an engineer, an 10


### expert on the environment. So I appreciate the 11


### opportunity afforded to citizens like me to speak 12


### to you today. 13


### I'm a citizen who has been personally 14


### affected by the drastic swings in climate, 15


### including losing a second home at Orange Beach, 16


### Alabama, to Hurricane Ivan, and watching our 17


### neighbors there who had first homes and 18


### businesses deal with the aftermath of a major oil 19


### spill and the weather devastation from 20



### hurrica nes. 21



### Three of our children live in the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Northeast and have been evacuated from their 1


### homes twice because of rising waters from 2



### hurricanes. 3


### I'm certain that every generation of 4


### parents and grandparents wishes for their 5


### children and grandchildren to have a be tter life, 6


### an easier life, or at least a good a life as they 7



### have. I know I do. Yet I fear that we've let 8


### slip away the opportunity to heal or even 9


### maintain the land they will walk on, the seas 10


### that they will fish, and the air that they 11



### breathe. 12



### I first became concerned for what we were 13


### doing to the environment in the late '60s when, 14


### as an undergraduate at Washington University in 15


### St. Louis, I was fortunate enough to be a student 16


### of Dr. Barry Commoner, who first sounded the 17


### alert that Lake Erie was dying from pollution 18


### that was being poured into its waters. 19


### In February of 1970, Time Magazine's 20


### cover featured Dr. Commoner, and Time labeled him 21


### "the Paul Revere of ecology." He was sounding 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### the alarms, calling us to mobilize our efforts to 1


### make peace with th e environment and begin making 2


### reparations for what we've done to our home, the 3



### earth. 4


### One of Dr. Commoner's lasting legacies is 5


### his four laws of ecology, as written in his book, 6


### The Closing Circle, in 1971. The four laws are: 7


### Everything is connected to e verything 8


### else. There is one ecosphere for all living 9


### organisms, and what affects one affects all. 10


### Two, everything must go somewhere. 11


### There's no waste in nature, and there is no way 12


### to spend it. 13


### Three, nature knows best. Humankind has 14



### fashioned techno logy to improve upon nature. But 15


### such change in a natural system is, said Dr. 16


### Commoner, "likely to be detrimental to that 17


### system," as we've found. 18


### And four, there's no such thing as a free 19


### lunch. Exploitation of nature will inevitably 20



### involve the convers ion of resources from useful 21



### to useless. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Like millions of others, I participated 1


### in the first Earth Day that was initiated in 2


### April of 1970. Years later, I coauthored a book 3


### for children on ways they could help heal the 4



### environment. 5


### Yet, like many others, I haven't done 6


### enough. My family drives hybrid cars. We have 7


### geothermal heating and solar

- powered hot water at 8


### our beach house. We're careful about watering 9


### our lawns. We've invested in energy

- efficient 10


### appliances and renewable energy. 11



### But as citizens , we haven't done enough. 12


### The United States hasn't done enough. We drove 13


### through Spain, amazed by the hilltops covered 14


### with windmills, wondering why we can't use more 15


### renewable energy. I deplored the gas rigs off 16


### the coast of Fort Morgan in Alabama and wondered 17


### how anyone could allow that. 18


### But I didn't say anything or write 19


### anyone. Instead, we just built our beach home in 20


### beautiful St. George Island, the forgotten coast, 21


### praying that our 300

- mile

- an

- hour impact windows, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### our steel pilings that go 50 feet into the 1


### ground, and our poured concrete walls will 2


### withstand any new weather patterns resulting from 3


### global warming. 4


### Our son is not so optimistic. He 5


### suggested that we put cleats on the beach house 6


### so that we would be ready when the ocean dries. 7



### Global warming is primarily fueled by 8


### carbon pollution. Power plants are the single 9


### largest contributor, source of carbon emissions. 10


### I applaud the EPA's new proposed Clean 11


### Power Plan, but I ask you to do even more to curb 12


### our carbon emissions, to encourage inves tment in 13


### renewable energy and building an energy 14



### infrastructure that is safer for all of us. 15


### The EPA must finalize its proposed Clean 16


### Power Plan and push to improve the standards that 17


### will work to heal our environment, and finally 18



### make at least those of us in the United States 19


### step up to our responsibility of citizens of the 20



### world. 21


### I implore you to do so, and I thank you 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### for allowing me to speak today. 1


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 2


### Could you spell your name for the court 3


### reporter just for the record? 4



### MS. GARBER : Marianne, M

- a

- r

- i

- a

- n

- n

- e, 5


### Daniels, D

- a

- n

- i

- e

- l

- s, Garber, G

- a

- r

- b as in 6


### boy

- e

- r. 7


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 8


### Stephen, would you also spell your name? 9


### MR. GARBER: It's Stephen, S

- t

- e

- p

- h

- e

- n 10


### Garber, G

- a

- r

- b

- e

- r. 11


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 12



### MR. GARBER: An d I'm a psychologist by 13


### training. But more importantly, I'm a father. 14


### And even more importantly, we are grandparents 15


### now. And actually, one of our daughters is here 16


### today, just graduated from college. 17


### So, even though I'm not an environmental 18


### scientist, I do believe that warnings that the 19


### scientific community has been giving us about 20


### what's happening in our atmosphere, and even more 21


### important, what's going to happen over this next 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### century. 1


### It is now clear that global warming is 2



### related to the amount of CO 2 that we humans are 3


### pouring into the atmosphere. Administrators, the 4


### EPA, not only in this administration, but from 5


### the times of President Reagan, both President 6


### Bushes, have stated this phenomenon is real and 7


### we need to take steps now to try to reverse this 8



### process. 9


### Now, I'll be turning 70 in just a little 10


### while here, okay? And so, why should I care? I 11


### mean, in my lifetime, you know, whether it's

-- 12


### sorry, daughter

-- 10 years, 20 years, whatever I 13


### have left, the impact

-- there will be things 14



### that wil l happen. 15


### But if I was only concerned about myself 16



### and not the others in the world and the future of 17


### my children, you know, I could probably live with 18



### that. But I am concerned about the terrible 19


### consequences it will have for our children and 20


### our grandchil dren. 21


### The level of CO2, as I looked it up, was 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### below 300 when I was born in 1946. I know it's 1


### now approaching 400. What will this number be in 2



### mid

- century when our children who are in their 3


### 20s and 30s will be approaching their 70s and 4



### 80s? That's a kin d of sobering thought, isn't 5


### it, Aubrey? 6


### Or even more, our grandchildren, who are 7


### only two years old

-- two

- year

- old twins

-- when 8


### they live in the latter part of this century, it 9


### really worries me. 10


### Some say we'll come up with other 11


### solutions by then. Oth ers say it may be too late 12


### already to do something to reverse the trend. 13


### But why? Why are we taking this chance with our 14


### children and our grandchildren's future? 15


### So, I said I'm not a scientist; I'm a 16


### psychologist. But I do know something about 17



### human beh avior. And too often, our behavior is 18


### controlled by immediate rather than long

- term 19


### consequences. We see this. Smokers are more 20


### controlled by that instant gratification of the 21


### nicotine, even when they know the long

- term 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### effects on their health could lea d to death. 1


### But too many of our citizens are 2


### controlled by the instant gratification of food, 3


### even when they are in the process of developing 4


### diabetes, heart disease, and many other 5



### illnesses. 6


### These long

- term consequences are not 7


### strong enough to change ou r immediate behavior. 8



### There's a lot of research on this. This same 9


### process has led us to being addicted to fossil 10


### fuels, even if the long

- term consequences for our 11


### children and grandchildren can and will be very, 12


### very disastrous. 13


### Now, I understand that o il companies and 14


### power companies are concerned about the cost of 15


### curbing these emissions. We're all concerned 16


### about the cost of what we pay for electricity and 17



### fuel in our cars. But if we allow these 18


### immediate numbers to control our behaviors, 19



### rather tha n long

- term consequences to our 20


### children and our grandchildren, we are going down 21


### the primrose path. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 3376474



### In his book Collapse, Dr. Jared Diamond, 1


### who is the noted evolutionary biologist, 2


### anthropologist, and he has so many other degrees 3


### that it's hard to even q uote them, he talked 4


### about the collapse of civilizations over the 5


### history of mankind. And one of the main causes 6


### he talked about was environmental collapse. 7


### In his book, he talked about what 8


### happened on Easter Island, where their culture 9



### caused them to le ad to deforestation of the 10


### island. And before they knew it, it was 11


### uninhabitable. Now, they were able to survive by 12


### going to other places, to go into other islands. 13


### He warns we're in this same process of doing this 14


### to our entire planet. And we won't ha ve anyplace 15


### safe to go. 16


### The astronomer Carl Sagan, back in the 17


### 1990s, got NASA to program the Voyager satellite 18



### to turn around and take a look back at earth and 19


### to take a picture of earth as it receded into 20


### darkness. And given what we know today about 21


### glo bal warming, his famous quote about what he 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### called "the blue dot oasis" that is our home and, 1


### even more important

-- even more important and 2


### chilling. 3


### I just want to read this part of his 4



### book. He said

-- this is Dr. Sagan, 1994: 5


### "There is perhaps no bet ter demonstration of the 6


### folly of human conceits than this distant image 7


### of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our 8


### responsibility to deal more kindly with one 9


### another, and to preserve and cherish the pale 10


### blue dot, the only home we've ever known. 11



### "The Earth is the only world known so far 12


### to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least 13


### in the near future, to which our species could 14


### migrate. Visit, yes, maybe. Settle, not yet. 15


### Like it or not, for the moment . . . is where we 16



### must make our stand." 17



### It's time for us to make a stand. I urge 18


### the adoption of the EPA's

-- President Obama's 19


### clean Climate Action Plan for the sake, not just 20


### of our children, but really for our 21


### grandchildren. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Thank you for allowing me to speak. 1


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 2



### Who was t he author again of the

-- 3


### MR. GARBER: Collapse? 4



### MS. BANISTER: Yes. 5



### MR. GARBER: Jared Diamond. He wrote 6


### Guns, Germs, and Steel. But his more recent book 7


### was Collapse. And he looked at the collapse of 8


### civilizations for many reasons from the dawn of 9



### hu man history. Very interesting guy. Looking at 10


### it from all the different aspects. 11


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. Great. 12


### Thank you both for joining us tonight. 13


### MS. GARBER: Thank you. 14


### MR. GARBER: Thank you for allowing us to 15


### speak. 16


### MS. BANISTER: We appreciate it. 17


### [Pause.] 18


### MS. BANISTER: Next, I would like to 19


### invite F. G. Beauregard and Jennifer Bryant. 20



### [Pause.] 21


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you both for joining 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### us tonight. 1


### If you could

-- F. G., we'll start with 2



### you. 3



### MS. BEAUREGARD: Thanks. 4


### MS. BANISTER: And if you woul d spell 5


### your name for the court reporter, and then you 6


### can begin. 7


### MS. BEAUREGARD: Sure. It's F period, G 8


### period, B

- e

- a

- u

- r

- e

- g

- a

- r

- d. 9


### Thank you first as a mother of a three

10



### year

- old for your efforts to address climate 11


### change. That's a personal thank

- you before I

-- 12



### in the not

- professional role here. 13



### I'm with the National Wildlife 14



### Federation. And these are NWF's technical 15



### recommendations on the Clean Power Plan. I won't 16


### get to talk about the sea turtles, like my 17


### colleague next door. But these are reall y 18


### important as well. 19


### EPA's proposed targets can and should be 20


### strengthened. Our initial analysis indicates 21


### emissions can be reduced beyond those projected 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### by EPA and at a reasonable cost. The goal of the 1


### plan should be to reduce emissions 35 to 40 2



### percen t below 2005 emissions by 2020. 3


### Primarily, the formula used by EPA to 4


### establish the emissions target in each state 5


### needs to be adjusted to reflect that additional 6


### available clean, renewable generation and energy

7


### efficiency resources would replace generatio n 8



### from the dirtiest fossil fuel sources and at a 9


### faster pace, yielding greater emissions 10



### reductions than EPA assumed. 11


### EPA has rightly recognized that energy 12


### efficiency is the most cost

- effective resource to 13


### reduce emissions and that many successful state 14



### p rograms demonstrate potential for efficiency 15


### across the country. 16



### However, more cost

- effective efficiency 17


### is available more quickly and at lower cost than 18


### was assumed in the proposal. State programs have 19


### demonstrated the ability to ramp up more quickly 20



### tha n the proposal would require and to use a 21


### wider variety of efficiency tools than was 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### considered. 1


### Clean, renewable energy has been growing 2


### at an astonishing rate. In 2012, wind energy and 3



### solar were two of the fastest

- growing electric 4


### generation technologi es in the United States. 5


### Cumulative installed wind energy capacity 6


### increased by nearly 28 percent, and cumulative 7


### installed solar capacity grew more than 83 8


### percent from the previous year. 9


### EPA rightly includes these resources in 10


### setting the state targets. But by setting 11


### assumptions about the availability and quantity 12


### of renewable energy opportunities far too low, we 13


### left substantial, achievable reductions off the 14



### table. 15


### EPA should analyze resource availability 16


### and costs on the state and regional basis rat her 17


### than limiting the assessment of potential 18


### development to mandated renewables and state 19


### renewable portfolio standard. The agency should 20


### remove any artificial limits on renewable energy 21


### growth and use an annual renewable energy growth 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### factor for each st ate that reflects the 1


### potential. 2


### EPA also needs to adjust its analysis to 3


### include the full potential of a wider variety of 4


### renewable resources that are currently excluded 5


### from consideration, such as distributed, solar, 6



### and offshore wind. 7



### To the extent that EPA allows states to 8



### include bio

- energy in their plans, if it is to 9


### achieve actual emission reductions, it must not 10


### deplete forced carbon storage or rely on tree 11


### growth and carbon sequestration that would occur 12


### long after 2030. In addition, biomass harve sting 13


### must not degrade biodiversity and other 14



### environmental resources. 15


### In establishing each state's target, EPA 16


### should fully account for planned and anticipated 17


### fossil fuel plant retirement and the current rate 18


### of change from coal to lower

- emitting resourc es, 19


### including natural gas. In other words, EPA must 20


### ensure that its approach to natural gas as a 21



### lower

- emitting source will drive emission 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### reductions that would not already have occurred. 1



### EPA should also be concerned about life 2


### cycle emissions from natura l gas production and 3


### move forward with parallel, additional measures 4


### to ensure methane pollution does not erase the 5



### climate benefits of increased reliance on natural 6


### gas over coal. 7


### Our region is a heavy emitter of carbon 8


### pollution. If the South were a cou ntry, it would 9


### be the seventh largest emitter of carbon in the 10


### world. It also lags behind the rest of the 11


### country in policies that push renewables and 12


### efficiencies, despite promising opportunities for 13



### both. 14


### So there are ample opportunities to 15



### reduce emiss ions and take advantage of gains 16


### through energy efficiency and renewable energy 17


### generation in a region with comparatively few 18


### requirements for either. 19


### Solar and wind power potential is 20


### abundant throughout the Southeast, including 21


### massive potential for offs hore wind, a vast, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### untapped resource sitting off the Atlantic Coast 1


### that could replace fossil fuel power and provide 2


### a reliable peak

- demand energy resource. 3


### Offshore wind exploration and 4


### consideration is already occurring in Virginia 5


### and North Carolina, an d its development could be 6


### an effective tool in substantial carbon pollution 7


### reductions and complying with the new rule. 8


### Thank you so much for the opportunity to 9



### comment. 10


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. Thank you. 11


### Okay, Jennifer, if you'd state your name 12


### and sp ell it for the court reporter. 13



### MS. BRYANT: Yes, ma'am. 14


### Jennifer Bryant, J

- e

- n

- n

- i

- f

- e

- r B

- r

- y

- a

15



### n

- t. 16


### Thank you for allowing me to come and 17


### speak with you this evening. I'm the Member 18


### Services Director at Oconee EMC, located in 19


### middle Georgia, where we se rve approximately 20


### 8,700 members in seven counties. 21


### On behalf of Oconee EMC, I ask the EPA to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### withdraw these proposed rules and start over. 1


### The cost of electricity directly impacts the 2


### quality of life in the seven counties that we 3



### serve at Oconee EMC in th e middle Georgia area. 4



### Increased cost of electric will slow economic 5


### growth, reduce job opportunities, and force 6


### families to make tough budget choices. 7


### For our most vulnerable members, an 8


### increase in the cost of electricity could force 9



### families to choose between filling up the car 10


### with gas and keeping their lights on. As a 11


### cooperative, all of these increased costs will 12


### have to be borne by our members, many of whom 13



### cannot even afford the tiniest increase in their 14


### weekly expenses. 15


### The cost of energy is not the only 16


### concern we have at Oconee EMC. We care deeply 17



### about our environment and the communities in 18


### which we serve. But support for the environment 19



### and a true all

- of

- the

- above energy policy are not 20


### mutually exclusive. 21


### Unfortunately, this proposal slams t he 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### door on an all

- of

- the

- above strategy. With these 1


### rules, the EPA is handpicking winners and losers. 2


### And in the end, the impact of these regulations 3


### will be statistically irrelevant on the issue of 4


### climate change. 5


### I urge you to withdraw this proposal an d 6


### work with us on a new, more commonsense approach 7



### that will be a true all

- of

- the

- above energy 8



### strategy. 9


### Thank you for this opportunity to speak 10


### with you this evening. 11


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. We appreciate 12



### it. 13



### I had one follow

- up question for F. G. 14



### MS . BEAUREGARD: Um

- hm. Sure. 15


### MS. BANISTER: You talked about leaving 16



### sustainable

-- not sustainable

-- leaving a lot 17



### of reductions from renewables off the table

-- 18


### that would just take it off

-- can you talk a 19



### little bit more about that? 20



### MS. BEAUREGARD: G osh. And I'll be 21


### honest. The biomass is more my specialty. 22

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### MS. BANISTER: Okay. 1



### MS. BEAUREGARD: And a lot of this was 2


### put together by my colleagues. 3


### MS. BANISTER: Okay. That's fine. Just 4


### if you can, just submit the comments. 5



### MS. BEAUREGARD: I'd lov e to. 6


### MS. BANISTER: That would be really good. 7



### MS. BEAUREGARD: Great. 8


### MS. BANISTER: Right. 9


### MS. BEAUREGARD: Thank you. 10


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you. Thank you. 11


### Thank you both for coming out tonight. 12


### [Pause.] 13



### MS. BANISTER: James Gill. 14


### [Pause.] 15



### MS. BANISTE R: Is there anyone else in 16


### the audience that is scheduled to speak tonight 17


### or would like to speak tonight? If so, if you 18


### could make sure that you go to the registration 19


### desk, and you would have that opportunity. 20



### MR. GILL: Hi. 21


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you, M r. Gill, for 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### joining us. Would you state your name and as 1


### well as spell it for the court reporter? 2



### MR. GILL: Yes, ma'am. 3


### My name is James Gill, J

- a

- m

- e

- s G

- i

- l

- l. 4


### Well, the bad news is that we're all 5


### crammed in here after 7:00 p.m. on a Tuesday 6


### night, an d you got to listen to me. The good 7



### news is that I'm well versed in the art of 8


### brevity. 9


### [Laughter.] 10


### MR. GILL: So I will try to make the most 11


### of this speech. 12


### First of all, let me thank you for this 13


### opportunity to speak to you on behalf of the 14



### members of o ur cooperative and, unfortunately, 15


### express our opposition to the EPA's proposed 16


### rules for existing power plants. As I said 17


### before, my name is Jay Gill, and I'm the Manager 18



### of Communications and Public Relations for 19



### Carroll EMC. 20



### Carroll EMC is also a not

- f or

- profit 21



### consumer

- owned business that distributes 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### electricity to roughly 50,000 residential, 1


### commercial, and industrial accounts here in the 2


### Western Georgia area. Our service area covers 3



### several counties here on the western border with 4


### Alabama, from Polk and Paulding area down to the 5


### edge of Troup and Coweta as well

-- kind of a 6


### large territory. 7


### As an employee, I'm naturally concerned 8


### about any regulation that is placed on our 9


### industry that doesn't make sense for us. 10


### However, as a member and as a consume r, I'm more 11


### concerned about the effects of this policy 12


### affecting reliability and, possibly, cost 13



### increase. 14


### At Carroll EMC, we judge every government 15


### policy against the impact it will have on our 16


### ability to provide our members and our 17


### communities with safe, reliable, and affordable 18


### power. Again, we don't generate electricity. We 19


### only distribute electricity. 20


### We ask the EPA to withdraw its proposed 21


### guidance and start over, because the proposal as 22

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### drafted undermines those goals. In fact, I've 1


### yet to hear of any professional in our industry 2


### speak out against the idea of clean air, clean 3


### water, or clean soil. 4


### You know, I also have an eight

- month

- old 5


### daughter and a two

- year

- old boy. I want the best 6


### for them. I want a clean, good, solid 7


### environment. And we jus t believe there's a 8


### better way to get there. 9


### As professionals, we understand it takes 10


### careful planning and time to phase out older 11


### technology and replace it with newer technology, 12


### especially if newer technology is not quite where 13


### it needs to be to replace the old technology. 14


### If you're waiting on a liver transplant, 15


### you don't unplug your life support machine, 16


### hoping the donor organ will get to you more 17


### quickly. And that's kind of the scenario we feel 18


### that we're in right now. 19


### But more importantly, there are many 20


### reasons we oppose these regulations. First and 21


### foremost, we believe that Georgia is being 22

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### treated unfairly in these rules. These proposed 1


### regulations ignore the significant progress 2


### Georgia has already made in reducing greenhouse 3


### gas emissions. 4



### Geor gia has reduced CO2 emissions by 5


### approximately 30 percent between the years 2005 6


### and 2012. That is equivalent to the national 7


### goal the EPA has set for 2030. In other words, 8


### Georgia has already met the EPA's goal. 9


### Yet, instead of rewarding this early 10



### acti on by codifying the State of Georgia's 11


### accomplishment or, at most, seeking a modest 12


### further reduction, these rules instead require 13


### another 44 percent emission reduction by 2030. 14


### Under EPA's plan, Georgia will be making 15



### the sixth

- largest reduction required of states 16


### nationwide, and so Georgia is being penalized for 17


### taking significant early action. We consider 18


### this as bad policy for our state and unfair 19



### treatment. 20


### Again, I believe we all agree on the 21


### ultimate goal, or ideal, of reducing dependency 22

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### on fossil fuels. However, there's a much better 1


### way to achieve this goal. 2


### My first suggestion is to retain input 3


### from the engineers and professionals in the power 4


### industry, including cooperatives. You know, a 5



### lot of times we kind of fall low on the totem 6


### pole. B ut we have a lot of resources and smart 7


### people onboard that can help. 8


### On behalf of Carroll EMC, I urge you to 9


### abandon these rules and work with cooperatives to 10


### achieve a more balanced approach that treats 11


### states fairly. And again, I thank you for the 12



### oppo rtunity to speak to you here tonight, and I'm 13


### glad I could wrap it up for you here at the end 14


### of a very long day. 15


### [Laughter.] 16


### MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much for your 17



### comments. 18


### MR. GILL: Yes, ma'am. Thank you. 19


### MS. BANISTER: Do you all have any 20


### question s? 21


### [No audible response.] 22

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### MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much. 1


### Is there anyone else in the audience that 2


### would like to have an opportunity to speak? 3


### [No audible response.] 4


### MS. BANISTER: If not, we're going to 5


### adjourn this room. And if you would like, you 6



### ca n move to Conference Room A for the conclusion 7


### of tonight's session. 8


### Thank you. Thank you all for coming out. 9


### We truly appreciate you all's input on these 10



### rules. 11


### [Whereupon, at 7:39 p.m., the Proposed 12


### Clean Power Plan for Existing Power Plants Public 13


### Hearing was adjourned.] 14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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