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24–358 PDF 2017

PROVIDING MORE STUDENTS A PATHWAY TO 

SUCCESS BY STRENGTHENING CAREER AND 

TECHNICAL EDUCATION 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, 

ELEMENTARY, AND SECONDARY EDUCATION 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, FEBRUARY 28, 2017 

Serial No. 115–7 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and the Workforce 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: 

www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/committee.action?chamber=house&committee=education 

or 

Committee address: http://edworkforce.house.gov 

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(II) 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE 

VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina, Chairwoman 

Joe Wilson, South Carolina 

Duncan Hunter, California 

David P. Roe, Tennessee 

Glenn ‘‘GT’’ Thompson, Pennsylvania 

Tim Walberg, Michigan 

Brett Guthrie, Kentucky 

Todd Rokita, Indiana 

Lou Barletta, Pennsylvania 

Luke Messer, Indiana 

Bradley Byrne, Alabama 

David Brat, Virginia 

Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin 

Steve Russell, Oklahoma 

Elise Stefanik, New York 

Rick W. Allen, Georgia 

Jason Lewis, Minnesota 

Francis Rooney, Florida 

Paul Mitchell, Michigan 

Tom Garrett, Jr., Virginia 

Lloyd K. Smucker, Pennsylvania 

A. Drew Ferguson, IV, Georgia 

Robert C. ‘‘Bobby’’ Scott, Virginia 

Ranking Member 

Susan A. Davis, California 

Rau ́l M. Grijalva, Arizona 

Joe Courtney, Connecticut 

Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio 

Jared Polis, Colorado 

Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 

Northern Mariana Islands 

Frederica S. Wilson, Florida 

Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon 

Mark Takano, California 

Alma S. Adams, North Carolina 

Mark DeSaulnier, California 

Donald Norcross, New Jersey 

Lisa Blunt Rochester, Delaware 

Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois 

Carol Shea-Porter, New Hampshire 

Adriano Espaillat, New York 

Brandon Renz, Staff Director 

Denise Forte, Minority Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, ELEMENTARY, AND 

SECONDARY EDUCATION 

TODD ROKITA, Indiana, Chairman 

Duncan Hunter, California 

David P. Roe, Tennessee 

Glenn ‘‘GT’’ Thompson, Pennsylvania 

Luke Messer, Indiana 

David Brat, Virginia 

Tom Garrett, Jr., Virginia 

Jared Polis, Colorado 

Ranking Member 

Rau ́l M. Grijalva, Arizona 

Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio 

Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon 

Susan A. Davis, California 

Frederica S. Wilson, Florida 

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(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on February 28, 2017 ....................................................................... 1 

Statement of Members: 

Polis, Hon. Jared, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Early Childhood, 

Elementary, and Secondary Education ....................................................... 4 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 6 

Rokita, Hon. Todd, Chairman, Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education ............................................................. 1 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 3 

Statement of Witnesses: 

Global, Ms. Janet, Director of Career and Technical Education, Canyons 

School District ............................................................................................... 14 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 27 

Johnson, Mr. Glenn E., M.A., Manufacturing Workforce Development 

Leader, BASF Corporation ........................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 16 

Lufkin, Ms. Mimi, Chief Executive Officer, National Alliance for Partnerships in Equity (NAPE) ................................................................................ 21 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 24 

Rowe, Mr. Mike, CEO, Mikeroweworks Foundation ..................................... 34 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 37 

Additional Submissions: 

Barletta, Hon. Lou, a Representative in Congress from the State of Pennsylvania: 

Letter dated March 21, 2017, from International Code Council ........... 60 

Mr. Johnson: 

Chart: Workforce Development Pipeline ................................................. 63 

Mr. Polis: 

The CTE Equation in Tennessee ............................................................. 57 

Mr. Rowe: 

CompTIA: Change in TECH Act .............................................................. 65 

Chairman Rokita: 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 69 

Article: How Congress can help millions of Americans achieve career 

success .................................................................................................... 75 

Thompson, Hon. Glenn ‘‘GT’’, a Representative in Congress from the 

State of Tennessee: 

Letter dated February 24, 2017, from Data Quality Campaign (DQC) 79 

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(1) 

PROVIDING MORE STUDENTS A PATHWAY TO 

SUCCESS BY STRENGTHENING CAREER 

AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION 

Tuesday, February 28, 2017 

House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee on Early Childhood, 

Elementary, and Secondary Education, 

Committee on Education and the Workforce, 

Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:03 a.m., in Room 

2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Todd Rokita [chairman 

of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Rokita, Roe, Thompson, Messer, Brat, 

Garrett, Polis, Bonamici, and Davis. 

Also Present: Representatives Foxx, Scott of Virginia, and 

Krishnamoorthi. 

Staff Present: Courtney Butcher, Director of Member Services 

and Coalitions; Amy Raaf Jones, Director of Education and Human 

Resources Policy; Nancy Locke, Chief Clerk; Dominique McKay, 

Deputy Press Secretary; James Mullen, Director of Information 

Technology; Krisann Pearce, General Counsel; James Redstone, 

Professional Staff Member; Alex Ricci, Legislative Assistant; 

Mandy Schaumburg, Education Deputy Director and Senior Counsel; Brad Thomas, Senior Education Policy Advisor; Tylease Alli, 

Minority Clerk/Intern and Fellow Coordinator; Jacque Chevalier, 

Minority Deputy Education Policy Director; Denise Forte, Minority 

Staff Director; Mishawn Freeman, Minority Staff Assistant; Eunice 

Ikene, Minority Labor Policy Associate; Alexander Payne, Minority 

Education Policy Advisor; and Elizabeth Watson, Minority Director 

of Labor Policy. 

Chairman ROKITA. A quorum being present, the Subcommittee 

on Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education will 

come to order. 

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today’s hearing. We’re 

here to discuss strengthening career and technical education and 

the need to reform, improve, and modernize current law so that 

more students can experience the power of this important education. 

For decades, career and technical education has helped individuals compete in the workforce and build fulfilling careers. Today, 

State and local programs across the country are working to prepare 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

2 

students in high school and at community colleges for jobs in a variety of fields. 

Now, these programs serve more than 11 million students, helping them receive knowledge, skills, and real world experience in 

fields ranging from health care and law enforcement to information 

technology and steel manufacturing. 

Through the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education 

Act, the Federal Government provides support to these State and 

local programs. It’s a worthwhile investment in growing a skilled 

workforce, preparing students for postsecondary education or the 

workplace, and helping hardworking individuals, particularly 

younger individuals, achieve their goals in life. 

CTE helped Paul Tse from Maryland, for example, go from a 

struggling high school student to the project manager for a mechanical contract company. Jasmine Morgan from Georgia realized 

her dream of becoming a sports marketing specialist through her 

experience with CTE. Alex Wolff embarked on a successful career 

in electrical engineering after participating in a CTE program in 

his home State of California. 

Now, these are just a few examples of the power CTE has to help 

students achieve their dreams and reach their full potential. However, changes to Federal law need to be made, and that’s what 

we’re here to discuss today, updating career and technical education policies so that more students can enjoy the success that 

Paul, Jasmine, and Alex have seen. 

The Perkins Act hasn’t been updated in more than a decade. I 

don’t have to tell you that much has changed in the workplace and 

our economy since then. Technology has advanced, consumer needs 

have shifted, and the country has struggled through a slow and 

tough economic recovery. 

By strengthening CTE policies, we have an opportunity to ensure 

the law reflects the current realities facing students, workers, and 

employers today. It’s an important opportunity, one that allows us 

not to only help more Americans seize opportunities in the workforce, but help them excel in the high-skilled jobs that exist today. 

In recent years, we’ve heard more and more about the quote, unquote, ‘‘skills gap,’’ the idea that there are more job opportunities 

in this country than there are workers with the knowledge and 

skills necessary to fill those jobs. You heard me correctly, even with 

too many Americans still unemployed, millions of job openings 

exist. The sad truth is that many students aren’t prepared for 

these jobs. 

This need for skilled labor exists in a number of critical industries. In manufacturing alone, 6 out of 10 positions go unfilled because of the skills gap and 84 percent of manufacturers agree there 

is a talent shortage. What’s worse is that if current projections continue, more than 6 million jobs will remain unfilled by 2020. 

Something needs to change, and improving career and technical 

education is a great way to help bring about that change. Unfortunately, we are starting from scratch. Last year, Congress came very 

close to passing a bipartisan bill that would deliver much-needed 

CTE reforms. Through a bipartisan effort led by Representatives 

Glenn Thompson and Katherine Clark, this committee unanimously approved legislation to strengthen CTE. So it’s worth pausCEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

3 

ing and repeating that: unanimously approved legislation, this 

committee. 

The important reforms in that legislation would empower State 

and local leaders to respond to changing education and economic 

needs. They would support innovative learning opportunities for 

students and help build better community partnerships, including 

stronger engagement with local employers. They would also improve accountability to ensure CTE programs are delivering real 

results and hardworking taxpayers’ money is being well spent. 

That legislation went on to pass the House with overwhelming 

bipartisan support by a vote of 405 to 5. It also enjoyed broad support outside of Congress from groups representing students, 

schools, employers, and those in the civil rights community. 

These commonsense bipartisan reforms provide us with a strong 

foundation to continue working to improve the law. Through hearings like this one and the legislative work ahead, we have an opportunity to help fill jobs, empower more individuals to achieve 

their goals, and provide more students a pathway to success. 

I’d like to thank our witnesses for joining us here today and look 

forward to hearing their stories and their experiences about the 

power of CTE and what we can do to make it better. I know Mike 

Rowe has been working for years to elevate CTE, as well as the 

kinds of ‘‘dirty jobs’’ of the men and women that are employed in 

those fields. His efforts have helped shine a light on countless 

Americans whose hard work and quiet determination help move 

this country forward. 

We appreciate all that you’ve done to support this country’s students and workers. We look forward to your testimony. 

So with that, I’ll now recognize the ranking member, Congressman Polis, for his opening remarks. 

[The statement of Chairman Rokita follows:] 

Prepared Statement of Hon. Todd Rokita, Chairman, Subcommittee on 

Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education 

For decades, career and technical education has helped individuals compete in the 

workforce and build fulfilling careers. Today, state and local programs across the 

country are working to prepare students in high school and at community colleges 

for jobs in a variety of fields. These programs serve more than 11 million students— 

helping them receive knowledge, skills, and real-world experience in fields ranging 

from health care and law enforcement to information technology and manufacturing. 

Through the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Act, the federal government provides support to these state and local programs. It’s a worthwhile investment in growing a skilled workforce, preparing students for postsecondary education or the workplace, and helping hardworking individuals—particularly younger 

individuals—achieve their goals in life. 

CTE helped Paul Tse from Maryland go from a struggling high school student to 

the project manager for a mechanical contract company. Jasmine Morgan from 

Georgia realized her dream of becoming a sports marketing specialist through her 

experience with CTE. Alex Wolff embarked on a successful career in electrical engineering after participating in a CTE program in his home state of California. 

These are just a few examples of the power CTE has to help students achieve 

their dreams and reach their full potential. However, changes to federal law need 

to be made, and that’s what we are here to discuss today—updating career and technical education policies so more students can enjoy success like Paul, Jasmine, and 

Alex. 

The Perkins Act hasn’t been updated in more than a decade. I don’t have to tell 

you that much has changed in the workplace and our economy since then. Technology has advanced, consumer needs have shifted, and the country has struggled 

through a slow, tough economic recovery. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

4 

By strengthening CTE policies, we have an opportunity to ensure the law reflects 

the current realities facing students, workers, and employers today. It’s an important opportunity—one that allows us not only to help more Americans seize opportunities in the workforce but to help them excel in the high-skilled jobs that exist 

today. 

In recent years, we’ve heard more and more about the ‘‘skills gap’’—the idea that 

there are more job opportunities in this country than there are workers with the 

knowledge and skills necessary to fill them. You heard me correctly. Even with too 

many Americans still unemployed, millions of job openings exist. The sad truth is 

we simply haven’t prepared students for them. 

This need for skilled labor exists in a number of critical industries. In manufacturing alone, six out of 10 positions go unfilled because of the skills gap, and 84 

percent of manufacturers agree there is a talent shortage. What’s worse is that if 

current projections continue, more than 6 million jobs will remain unfilled by the 

year 2020. 

Something needs to change, and improving career and technical education is a 

great way to help bring about that change. Fortunately, we aren’t starting from 

scratch. 

Last year, Congress came very close to passing a bipartisan bill that would deliver 

much-needed CTE reforms. Through a bipartisan effort led by Representatives 

Glenn Thompson and Katherine Clark, this committee unanimously approved legislation to strengthen CTE. Let me pause to repeat that: unanimously approved legislation. 

The important reforms in that legislation would empower state and local leaders 

to respond to changing education and economic needs. They would support innovative learning opportunities for students and help build better community partnerships, including stronger engagement with local employers. They would also improve accountability to ensure CTE programs are delivering real results and hardworking taxpayer dollars are being well spent. 

That legislation went on to pass the House with overwhelming bipartisan support 

by a vote of 405 to 5. It also enjoyed broad support outside of Congress from groups 

representing students, schools, employers, and those in the civil rights community. 

These commonsense, bipartisan reforms provide us with a strong foundation to 

continue working to improve the law. Through hearings like this one and the legislative work ahead, we have an opportunity to help fill jobs, empower more individuals to achieve their goals, and provide more students a pathway to success. 

I’d like to thank our witnesses for joining us today and look forward to hearing 

their stories and experiences about the power of CTE, and what we can do to make 

it better. I know Mike Rowe has been working for years to elevate CTE, as well 

as all kinds of ‘‘dirty jobs’’ and the men and women employed in these fields. His 

efforts have helped shine a light on countless Americans whose hard work and quiet 

determination help move this great country forward. We appreciate all that you’ve 

done to support this country’s students and workers, and we look forward to your 

testimony. 

Mr. POLIS. Good morning, and thank you, Chairman Rokita. 

Today’s hearing is very important because we’re going to be examining the very important role in an evolving 21st century economy of career and technical education programs. Career and technical education programs help prepare our country’s students, including those who are coming from nontraditional pathways, for either success in college or career. And many of the programs across 

our school districts or in partnership with our school districts are 

funded under the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education 

Improvement Act of 2006, which the committee is hoping to reauthorize this session. 

According to Georgetown University’s Center on Education and 

the Workforce, in the next 5 years 65 percent of jobs in our economy in our country will require training beyond high school. In my 

own State of Colorado, career and technical education is really receiving a new facelift to reinvent it for the 21st century. Last year, 

our State created a pilot program where school districts receive 

$1,000 for students who complete a credential in a high-demand inCEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

5 

dustry or finished a workplace training program or complete an AP 

computer science course. 

This past fall, I visited the new P-TECH high school in 

Longmont, Colorado, that serves many students in my district. PTECH, which also is known as Pathways in Technology Early College, allows all students to earn their high school diploma and an 

associate’s degrees in a STEM field. P-TECH is a partnership between the school district, Front Range Community College, and 

IBM. Other P-TECH partnerships include other private sector companies that are willing to provide educational internships for the 

students and educational support. And also the cooperation of a 

local community college is very important. 

In addition to supporting P-TECH -- and there was language in 

last year’s reauthorization that we hope to include in this year’s as 

well, supportive of the P-TECH concept -- Perkins also provides an 

excellent opportunity to support dual and concurrent enrollment 

programs, which are growing across the country. Dual enrollment, 

frankly, is one of the most successful educational programs that 

I’ve seen, in my State and nationally. Every day, dual and concurrent enrollment are breaking down barriers to accessing college for 

many low-income and first-generation students. 

Students that participate in dual and concurrent enrollment programs are less likely to need remediation in college. They are 23 

percent more likely to continue into postsecondary education after 

high school. 

It’s also very cost effective for students and their families. Last 

year, I visited Colorado Early College High School in Fort Collins. 

For students at Colorado Early College High School, they graduate 

high school with an associate’s degree, often in 4 years. It can take 

5 or 6 years as well, but the vast majority of the students complete 

high school and an associate’s degree in 4 years. 

These graduates are not only able to receive college credit and 

reduce the cost of college and cut the cost of a 4-year degree in half, 

but also receive the ability to have a deployable talent in the marketplace. 

Career and technical education is critical for fulfilling high-need 

jobs. This last fall, I met with representatives from the Northern 

Colorado Labor Council. They shared how there’s openings for apprenticeships in northern Colorado which pay a good wage and lead 

to a good job, but they don’t have enough qualified people to fill 

those openings. This really gets to the heart of why we need strong 

career-readiness programs. 

In many places, there are good-paying jobs available for people 

who have the right skills. The Federal Government has an important role to play in partnering with school districts to ensure students have the skills to fill good-paying jobs. 

Unfortunately, after the harmful sequestration cuts, public funding for career and technical education is at historic lows. It’s clear 

that we should not continue to cut funding for critical programs 

like career and technical education, programs that actually can engage students with an integrated and practical and applied curriculum of core academic content and real world, work-based relevance. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

6 

We need to support high-quality career and technical education 

programs. And for many years, the Perkins Act has supported the 

development of career and technical education programs that cultivate in-demand skills among secondary and postsecondary students. 

Reauthorization of the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical 

Education Act gives this committee the opportunity to ensure that 

these programs are high quality, emphasize equity, align with academic and labor market demands to help grow our economy, and 

provide opportunities for all students, especially those who are historically underserved, to receive credentials, lead to high-skills, 

high-wage, in-demand career opportunities in the 21st century. 

We also need to ensure that any reauthorization is bipartisan, 

comes with strong accountability, transparency, and quality indicators, to make sure that a diverse population of students is served, 

and that every student is served well. We can achieve these goals 

through increased collaboration and flexibility at the State and 

local level while maintaining the authority federally to make sure 

that the legislation meets its goals. 

I look forward to hearing from our distinguished panel of witnesses today and discussing how we can best equip our Nation’s 

students with the skills that they need to succeed in our rapidly 

evolving economy. 

Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. 

[The statement of Mr. Polis follows:] 

Prepared Statement of Hon. Jared Polis, Ranking Member, Subcommittee 

on Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education 

Good morning, and thank you, Chairman Rokita. 

Today’s hearing will examine the critical role of career and technical education 

(CTE) programs in preparing our nation’s students, including those who are entering or coming from nontraditional pathways, for success in college and career. Many 

of these programs are funded under the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Improvement Act of 2006. 

According to Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce, in 

the next five years, 65 percent of all jobs in the United States’ economy will require 

training beyond high school. In my home state of Colorado, career and technical 

education is receiving a renewed focus. Last year, Colorado created a pilot program 

where school districts receive $1,000 for each student who completes a credential 

in a high-demand industry, finishes a workplace training program, or completes an 

AP Computer Science course. 

This past fall, I visited the new P–TECH school in Longmont, Colorado that 

serves many students in my district. P–TECH, also known as Pathways in Technology Early College allows students to earn their high school diploma and an associate’s degree in a STEM field in six years. P–TECH is a partnership between the 

school district, Front Range Community College, and IBM, and gives students the 

opportunity to get on-the-job training while they’re getting their degrees. 

In addition to P–TECH, Perkins CTE provides an excellent opportunity to lift up 

and support dual and concurrent enrollment. Dual enrollment is one of the most 

successful education programs in Colorado, and it’s breaking down barriers to accessing college for many low-income and first generation students. Students in Colorado that participate in dual and concurrent enrollment are less likely to need remedial courses in college, and they are 23 percent more likely to continue into postsecondary education after high school. It’s also an effective cost-saving strategy for students. Last year, I visited Colorado Early College High School in Fort Collins, or 

CEC. For students at CEC, they graduate high school with an associate’s degree, 

sometimes in four years, and sometimes in five or six. Those graduates are not only 

able to get college experience, but they’ve effectively cut their cost for a four-year 

degree in half. 

CTE is also critical for filling high-needs jobs. Just last fall, I met with representatives from the Northern Colorado Labor Council. They shared how there are openCEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

7 

ings for apprenticeships in Northern Colorado, which pay a fair wage and can lead 

to a job, but they don’t have anyone to fill the openings. This gets to the heart of 

why we need strong career readiness programs. In many places there are good-paying jobs available. The federal government has a role to play in helping ensure students are trained to fill them. 

Unfortunately, after harmful sequestration cuts, public funding for CTE is at historic lows. It is clear that we should not continue to cut funding for critical programs, like CTE, that engage students with an integrated curriculum of core academic content and real-world, work-based relevance. 

Instead, we must support high-quality CTE programs. For many years, the Perkins Act has supported the development of CTE programs that cultivate in-demand 

skills among secondary and postsecondary students. 

Reauthorization of the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Act presents this Committee with an opportunity to ensure that CTE programs are of high 

quality, emphasize equity, align with academic and labor market demands, and provide opportunities for all students – especially those historically underserved – to 

receive credentials that lead to high-skill, high-wage, in-demand career opportunities. We also need to ensure that any reauthorization is bipartisan, and comes with 

strong accountability and quality indicators that ensure not only that a diverse population of students are being served, but also that every student is being served 

well. We can achieve these goals through increased collaboration and flexibility at 

the state and local level, while maintaining secretarial authority to regulate and enforce the legislation at the federal level. 

I look forward to hearing from our distinguished panel of witnesses and discussing how we can equip our nation’s students with the skills they need to succeed 

in a rapidly evolving 21st century economy. 

Thank you, and I yield back my time. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

Pursuant to committee rule 7(c), all members will be permitted 

to submit written statements, which will be included in the permanent hearing record. And without objection, the hearing record will 

remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for 

the official hearing record. 

I will now turn to the introduction of our distinguished witnesses. 

First, we have Mr. Glenn Johnson. He is a workforce development leader for BASF, where he works to develop partnerships 

with educational agencies and postsecondary partners. 

Welcome. 

Ms. Janet Goble is the director of career and technical education 

for Canyons School District in Sandy, Utah, where she oversees 

CTE course offerings, business partnerships, and work-based learning student experiences. 

Welcome. 

Ms. Mimi Lufkin is the executive director for the National Alliance for Partnerships in Equity, where she conducts professional 

development activities and provides technical assistance to State 

and local education agencies focused on best practices for serving 

special population students. 

Ms. Lufkin, welcome. 

And finally, Mr. Mike Rowe, best known for the Discovery Channel show ‘‘Dirty Jobs,’’ now runs the mikeroweWORKS Foundation, 

which awards scholarships to students pursuing a career in the 

skilled trades. 

Mr. Rowe, welcome. Thank you for being here. 

I will now ask our witnesses to raise your right hand. 

[Witnesses sworn.] 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

8 

Chairman ROKITA. Let the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative. 

Before I recognize you to provide your testimony, let me briefly 

explain our lighting system, which is reminder for us up here as 

much as it is for you. You each have 5 minutes, of course, to 

present your testimony. When you begin, the light will be green, 

and then when there is 1 minute left, it will be yellow, and when 

it’s red, it’s time to stop. So please do that so we can keep on time. 

I’d appreciate it. 

Members then will each have 5 minutes to ask their questions, 

and the red light applies to them just as equally. 

So with that, I’d like to recognize Mr. Johnson for 5 minutes for 

your testimony. 

TESTIMONY OF GLENN E. JOHNSON, M.A., MANUFACTURING 

WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT LEADER, BASF CORPORATION 

Mr. JOHNSON. Thank you very much for this opportunity to talk 

about CTE and how BASF has become very involved and very engaged in this type of work and activity. 

I’d like to also mention that I began my own career as very, very 

near the bottom, starting as a process operator and working my 

way through the technical operations of manufacturing and technical careers. So I’ve lived the life that I advocate for these young 

people -- and even retooling adults -- to get involved with and very 

passionate about it. 

BASF has 154 locations in 29 States. Eighty-one of those are production facilities and 17 are research and development. We have 

15,000 employees who work in operations, engineering, research 

and development, and sales and marketing. In 2016 alone we contributed more than $4.5 million to the communities that we live 

and worked with in those areas. 

Wherever possible, BASF seeks out to promote collaborations 

with K through 12 through graduate school. Perkins grants are an 

important tool that enhances the collaborative process and adds to 

student success. 

Important to talent acquisition is to seek the best candidates. 

But in addition to that, it starts much earlier. We want to entice 

the best candidates to seek us. And this gets back to some of the 

things I’ve already heard through what we’ve talked about today. 

It’s talking to students and letting them know the true realities of 

these technical jobs and the misconceptions of the past, getting 

those things cleared away. 

We have a problem, which has already also been mentioned: 

11,000 baby boomers are turning 70 every single day as of 2016. 

That’s one every 7.5 seconds. So it is happening, there’s a delayed 

effect, but it is happening, and this will result in what we project 

in a 2 million job shortage in the manufacturing sector. 

Jobs in technology are among the most at risk, and that is why 

BASF has taken such an engaged approach that we call pipeline 

relationship management, where we are driving relationships, not 

just participation with our different education and industry partners and the workforce potentials that are out there. So this involves direct involvement in all stages of workforce development. 

CEWDOCROOM with DISTILLER

9 

The three basic pieces that we go after, our pillars, I guess you 

could call, is to, one, drive career and technical education awareness. This is our approach to increase the size of the pipeline. So 

the illustration that you see on the monitors now is basically what 

-- it’s a graphic that displays the complexity of the workforce pipeline whenever we talk about it. 

I speak to so many people, and I get the vision from listening to 

what they say that they really see the pipeline as the singular 

pipe, that people go in one side, they come out with skills and hired 

at the end. Where in reality, these three pieces of career and technical education awareness, where we are increasing the size or the 

quantity of workforce potentials coming through the pipeline, working with our nested educational partners to increase the quality of 

those workforce potentials in that pipeline, and then working with 

our government and industrial partners to increase the productivity of that pipeline so that we can supply that projected 2 million 

job shortage. 

One of the problems is that 52 percent of students today when 

surveyed say they have no interest in manufacturing jobs. But that 

same data also tells us that the thing that makes them change 

their mind the most, the one that makes them decide what careers 

to pursue, is what they’re most familiar with. And this drives our 

need to do more to familiarize students and workforce potentials, 

as well as retooling adults, with the true realities of technology and 

manufacturing today. 

Since 2010, more than 380,000 schoolchildren in grades K 

through 12 have participated in science education programs that 

BASF has put together. Through programs like BASF’s Kids’ Lab, 

we are helping grade school students build on their natural curiosity for how things work and to develop an interest in science. In 

programs like BASF’s Science Academy and BASF’s Tech Academy 

we seek to attract high school students to skilled career paths in 

science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. 

Retooling adults. We focus what we talk to them about to make 

sure that they understand the misconceptions of pay, that the average pay in manufacturing is actually $10,000 on average more per 

year than all other sectors combined. This lifestyle, the job availability projections, we hear all the time in the news and other 

places the endless counts of where people with 4-year degrees can’t 

find jobs. And at the same time, we have a skills gap. We have a 

projected absence in manufacturing. And these jobs actually pay 

more. 

In one school in the Houston area, of the multiple, many technical colleges in the areas, in one school alone there are currently 

600 students that have a 4-year degree, can’t find work, are going 

back to get an associate’s degree or a certificate to become more 

employable, and it is just an example of the type of ideas that it 

takes to fix this problem. 

[The testimony of Mr. Johnson follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. 

Ms. Goble, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

TESTIMONY OF JANET GOBLE, DIRECTOR OF CAREER AND 

TECHNICAL EDUCATION, CANYONS SCHOOL DISTRICT 

Ms. GOBLE. Good morning, Chairman Rokita, Ranking Member 

Polis, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. My name 

is Janet Goble, and I’m the director for career and technical education for Canyons School District in Sandy, Utah, which is a comprehensive school district serving approximately 35,000 students. 

Additionally, I serve as the administration division vice president 

for the National Association for Career and Technical Education. 

I’m honored to be here today, and thank you for the invitation to 

share some of the wonderful opportunities students have in CTE. 

This morning I would like to highlight programs of study, business partnerships, and work-based learning opportunities, all of 

which are extremely beneficial for our students and are key tenets 

of the Carl B. Perkins Act. 

In Canyons School District students have the opportunity to participate in 35 different programs of study. These pathways start in 

9th or 10th grade, and are followed by a succession of related 

courses that lead students into postsecondary education or careers. 

Students are able to earn industry credentials as juniors or seniors, 

and some leave high school with Utah licenses in areas like health 

care. 

With these credentials, students are prepared to be successful in 

their chosen pathway and are ready to hit the ground running in 

the workplace. Last year, our students earned an impressive 1,739 

industry credentials. 

Many of our CTE students also plan to pursue higher education. 

This year, we are offering 44 CTE dual-enrollment courses with our 

higher education partners. Students in these courses have the opportunity to experience the rigor of college-level course work while 

saving time and money toward earning a college degree. 

Business partnerships are a key component of our program of 

study effort. For example, we have worked with major diesel companies across the State and other partners to develop the Utah 

Diesel Technician Pathway. In direct response to providing the 

workforce for the diesel industry, the pathway starts with dual-enrollment courses in high school, transform to college courses, and 

then allow students into enter the workforce with industry-grade 

skills. 

Along with donating many hours of job-shadow experiences and 

giving presentations about this viable career pathway, industry 

partners donated 12 diesel engines and stands to our district, valued at approximately $180,000, so students can learn on up-to-date 

equipment. 

We are also launching a new Medical Innovations Pathway driven by industry partners in the medical device manufacturing area. 

Students will take high school courses whose standards and objectives have been developed by industry to gain necessary skills for 

this career area. In addition, we are poised to participate in a new 

statewide building construction initiative and look forward to a 

similar partnership in the information technology area. 

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Last October, in an effort to connect more students with industry, we were an integral part of our region’s Pathways to Professions expo event where students and teachers were able to directly 

interface with businesses. In its maiden year, over 8,500 students 

attended. There were even a few students who were hired on the 

spot. 

Opportunities like the expo that connect students with industry 

are critical. In our district, career exploration activities start with 

elementary school career days. College and Career Awareness, a required middle school course, exposes students to occupations across 

all the career clusters. Then in high school, examples of work-based 

learning activities cover a continuum from field trips, guest speakers, and lunch-and-learns, to internships. 

All high school students participate in career fairs. Work-based 

learning facilitators recruit professionals in their own community 

to represent dozens of possible careers. Having the support of 70- 

plus businesses is overwhelming and helps students learn about careers they might not even know exist. 

We also host an annual job-shadow event giving students a firsthand look at the workplace. A wide range of careers are represented, from engineers to graphic designers. This year, 89 students and 41 businesses took part in the event. Some students realize that the career they shadow is not a good fit, which is a valuable experience and allows them time to reevaluate their career aspirations. And as for those students who have found their passion, 

this experience serves to cement their career decision and also 

gives them the opportunity to network with industry professionals. 

Another activity, our annual You Go Girls conference, with 300 

girls attending, aims to introduce middle school-aged girls to traditional occupations. It is very empowering for these young girls to 

hear from female role models and realize that they too can succeed 

in these careers. Since initiating this event, the percentage of students enrolled in high school non-trad programs has risen from 26 

percent to 53 percent. 

With our Perkins allocation, we fund work-based learning personnel and activities like these. Without this flexible funding, we 

would be unable to offer many of these valuable opportunities for 

our students. 

When students are engaged in more learning -- and certainly 

work-based learning and programs of study elevate that engagement -- they are more likely to stay in school. In Canyons district, 

94 percent of CTE concentrators graduated from high school, while 

the overall district graduation rate is 85 percent. 

With the reauthorization of the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Act, Congress has the opportunity to ensure that 

high-quality CTE programs, including work-based learning experiences, are available to all students. 

Again, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony, and 

I look forward to your questions. 

[The testimony of Ms. Goble follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. Thank you, Ms. Goble. 

Ms. Lufkin, you’re recognized for 5 minutes. 

TESTIMONY OF MIMI LUFKIN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, 

NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR PARTNERSHIPS IN EQUITY (NAPE) 

Ms. LUFKIN. Good morning, and thank you, Chairman Rokita, 

Ranking Member Polis, and members of the subcommittee, as well 

as Chairwoman Foxx and Ranking Member Scott, for the opportunity to testify before you today. 

My name is Mimi Lufkin. I am the chief executive officer of the 

National Alliance for Partnerships in Equity. NAPE is a consortium of State and local education agencies supporting educators 

and carrying out the equity and special population provisions in 

the Perkins Act, as well as other education and workforce development legislation. 

Nationwide, some 13 million students are enrolled in CTE programs in secondary and postsecondary institutions. These programs are developing America’s most valuable resource -- its people 

-- helping them gain the skills, technical knowledge, academic foundation, and real world experience they need to prepare for highskill, high-demand, high-wage careers and keep America working 

in every sense of the word. 

CTE provides a positive return on investment for both students 

and the economy. Students who earn a CTE-related associate’s degree or certificate can make an average of $9,000 more per year, 

$20,000 more per year in health career fields. Students who engage 

in high-quality CTE have higher academic achievement and are 

more likely to graduate from high school. Attendance in a CTE program more than doubles the rate of college entrance for minority 

students. 

In Florida, CTE students taking dual-enrollment courses are 22 

percent more likely to enroll in postsecondary institutions as compared to their peers; and in Indiana, the community college system 

estimated savings of $14.1 million in tuition costs for students in 

dual-credit courses. 

CTE plays a critical role in creating a skilled workforce and a 

more diverse workforce. Since its reauthorization in 1972, the Perkins Act, then the Vocational Education Act, has contained provisions supporting disadvantaged students and special populations, 

such as low-income students, students with disabilities, Englishlanguage learners, single parents, displaced homemakers, and students pursuing nontraditional careers, with access and success in 

CTE programs. 

Increasing access to high-quality CTE programs for every student, especially for unrepresented students, must be a priority in 

Federal policy. By 2024, employers need to fill more than 2 million 

middle-skilled jobs, those that require less than a baccalaureate degree, in information technology, manufacturing, transportation, distribution, and logistics -- all fields that are critical to the health of 

our Nation’s economy and security. 

Only 11 percent of the workers in these fields are women. In the 

2014-15 school year, women represented only 23 percent of IT concentrators, 12 percent of manufacturing concentrators, and 9 percent of transportation, distribution, and logistics concentrators in 

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postsecondary CTE programs. In addition, men represented only 19 

percent of concentrators in health career programs. These high-demand fields cannot afford to have half the population unavailable 

as potential members of their workforce pool. 

Under the provisions in the Perkins Act, NAPE has been working with educators at the State and local level across the country 

to move the needle on equity in CTE. For example, in Oregon, 

Douglas Education Service District increased the enrollment of 

girls in their welding program from 4 in the fall of 2015 to 38 in 

the spring of 2016. 

In California, Cordova High School increased female participation in their Project Lead the Way, Introduction to Engineering Design course from 4 to 14 girls in one semester. And in Ohio, Morgan Local Schools increased the enrollment of boys in health 

sciences to 50 percent of enrollment. 

States play a critical role in leading the implementation of innovative and high-quality CTE programs. The sharing of these best 

practices, providing technical assistance, collecting and sharing 

disaggregated accountability and participation data, ensuring civil 

rights enforcement, and holding States accountable are all critical 

roles the Federal Government plays. 

The CTE community has benefited from the initiatives that the 

U.S. Department of Education’s Office of Career, Technical and 

Adult Education has lead, such as the Data Quality Institutes, the 

Peer Collaborative Resource Network, and the Advancing Equity in 

CTE project, to name a few. 

Our State members have also found the U.S. Department of Education’s monitoring visits to be valuable in highlighting successes 

and uncovering opportunities for improvement, particularly in regards to ensuring the needs of special populations are being met. 

NAPE has benefitted from access to national data on accountability measure performance and CTE concentrator data 

disaggregated by gender, race, ethnicity, and special population 

status as we work with States and local education agencies to close 

participation and achievement gaps. 

It’s critical that the Federal role be maintained in the Perkins 

Act to ensure that CTE continues to transform itself to meet the 

needs of the military, business, and a workforce competing in a 

global economy. 

Most importantly, for any of this to be possible requires that Perkins be fully funded. Since 1991, the Perkins basic State grant program has been reduced by 45 percent when adjusting for inflation. 

Now is the time to invest in America’s educational system that creates its most valuable technical workforce. 

I want to congratulate the House Education and the Workforce 

Committee for its bipartisan passage of H.R. 5587, Strengthening 

Career and Technical Education for the 21st Century Act, in the 

114th Congress, and look forward to working with you to ensure 

that the reauthorization of the Perkins Act in the 115th Congress 

builds on that good work. 

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sure we continue to be globally competitive and the world’s leader 

in innovation. CTE can help make that a reality. 

Thank you for allowing me to testify. And I welcome any questions you may have. 

[The testimony of Ms. Lufkin follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. Thank you, Ms. Lufkin. 

Mr. Rowe, you’re recognized for 5 minutes. 

TESTIMONY OF MIKE ROWE, CEO, MIKEROWEWORKS 

FOUNDATION 

Mr. ROWE. Thanks. Pleasure to be here. Appreciate the invitation. 

I’m not sure who the ladies are to my left, but I’d wish to acknowledge them. 

I don’t know what you’re doing, but it is fascinating to watch you 

do it. Honestly. 

Back in 2011, the Transportation and Commerce Committee invited me to share my thoughts on how to close America’s widening 

skills gap. So I came to this building to talk about a critical part 

of the solution most often overlooked by politicians and educators. 

That would be the pressing need for better PR. I talked specifically 

about the stigmas and stereotypes that dissuade millions of people 

from exploring thousands of genuine opportunities in the skilled 

trades and the urgent need to challenge those myths and misconceptions. 

I pointed out that President Obama’s promise of 3 million shovelready jobs sounded great, but I worried that filling those jobs 

would be challenging, especially in a country where fewer and 

fewer people aspired to pick up a shovel. I concluded by telling the 

committee that millions of open positions will remain unfilled until 

society changes its opinion on the definition of a good job. And then 

I invited those present to join me in a larger effort to that very 

thing. 

Shortly after my testimony to the committee, the skills gap 

closed, unemployment plummeted, and America got back to work. 

I’m kidding. Shortly after my testimony, the skills got widened, 

unemployment grew, and society continued to ignore thousands of 

opportunities that comprise a critical part of our workforce. 

So a few years later, I was invited back to the Hill to address 

the Natural Resources Committee and talk more about the causes 

of our widening skills gap. This time I focused on the unintended 

consequences of promoting a 4-year degree as the best path for the 

most people. There was a time when higher education needed a PR 

campaign and it got one. Unfortunately, the push for 4-year institutions came at the expense of community colleges, trade schools, 

and apprenticeship programs. Thus, every other educational opportunity began to feel subordinate. 

Also, the overall push for college coincided with an overall removal of vocational arts from high schools across the country, and 

the effects of that one-two punch laid the foundation not just for 

a widening skills gap, but for a level of student debt that’s massive, 

premature, and completely unnecessary. 

I testified that tuition had soared in part because thousands of 

well-intended parents and guidance counselors were telling millions of kids, irrespective of their individual skills, that their best 

hope of success was the most expensive path available. The pressure on kids to borrow money was enormous, and so they did. Consequently, college tuition rose faster than the cost of food, energy, 

real estate, and health care. 

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I also shared some personal stories with the committee that day, 

including a run-in with my own guidance counselor 35 years earlier. In 1980, Mr. Dunbar did everything in his power to dissuade 

me from attending a local community college. I was told outright 

that a 2-year school was beneath my potential. 

But a 4-year school would have been a huge mistake at that 

point in my life. I was 17 years old, I had no money, and I had 

no idea of what I wanted to do. The local community college offered 

hundreds of courses in my price range, so that’s where I went, and 

that experience opened doors that I didn’t even know existed. But 

that same experience is precisely what thousands of kids are discouraged from pursuing every single year. 

I told the committee then that this cookie-cutter approach to promoting higher education has led to thousands of graduates with expensive degrees from excellent schools, but with no prospects in 

their chosen field and no way to pay off their student loans. 

With the universal push for a 4-year degree more intense than 

ever, I argued then that our skills gap is the direct result of a mistaken belief that the best path for the most people is a 4-year degree, and I concluded with another appeal to aggressively confront 

the stigmas and stereotypes that discourage people from entering 

the trades, along with a challenge to guidance counselors to 

present a more balanced presentation of educational alternatives 

beyond high school. 

After my testimony in 2013, the skills gap closed, public education re-embraced the vocational arts, college tuition returned to 

affordable levels, and America finally got back to work. 

I’m kidding. Shortly after my testimony, the skills gap got even 

wider, tuition got even more expensive, and guidance counselors 

continued to use a career in the trades as a cautionary tale for 

those who resisted a 4-year degree. Now the situation has devolved 

even further, and my own mother has concluded that I am part of 

the problem. ‘‘The more you testify,’’ she said to me last night, ‘‘the 

worse things get.’’ 

She may be right. Today, the skills gap is wider than it’s ever 

been, 5.6 million jobs, according to the BLS. Vocational education 

is still missing from an overwhelming majority of high schools. 

Bills like the one before this committee still meet resistance in part 

because millions of Americans still view a career in the trades as 

some kind of vocational consolation prize. 

It’s a bias as misguided as any other prejudice with us today and 

it poses a clear and present danger to our country’s overall economic security. The student loan bubble is going to burst, as bubbles always do. Currently, the outstanding debt is $1.3 trillion. And 

yet we continue to lend money we don’t have, to kids who can’t pay 

it back, to teach them jobs that no longer exist, while ignoring all 

kinds of careers that actually do. 

In Springfield, Massachusetts, right now there are tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs available, yet the unemployment rate 

in Springfield is just as high as it is in the rest of the State. The 

mismatch between available skilled jobs and the unemployed local 

population is enormous. And it’s happening everywhere. And so at 

the risk of making things worse, I have come here today to address 

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the House Committee on Education and the Workforce. Alas, I 

have nothing new to tell you. 

[The testimony of Mr. Rowe follows:] 

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Chairman ROKITA. Thank you, Mr. Rowe. I can’t let your celebrity bend the laws of the clock. 

Mr. ROWE. I appreciate that. Very well. The only thing in television that takes 5 minutes is 20. 

Chairman ROKITA. And please let the record reflect that the ladies that the witness was referring to were our court reporters, 

who I think used to work at the NSA and have friends at the IRS. 

Mr. ROWE. I believe it. 

Chairman ROKITA. You’re going to be fine, Mr. Rowe. I think 

you’ll be fine. 

I’m going to pass temporarily on my questioning and recognize 

the chairman of the full committee, Dr. Foxx, for 5 minutes. 

Ms. FOXX. Thank you very much, Chairman Rokita. And I will 

add to what the chairman said about those wonderful ladies on 

your left. My understanding is that there are lots of job openings 

in that field and it pays very well. 

Mr. Johnson, BASF has a clearly demonstrated commitment to 

collaborating with educational institutions to address its workforce 

needs. I’m very familiar with what you do. Many smaller companies, however, lack the resources and expertise that someone like 

BASF has and makes it difficult for them to dedicate time and energy to maintain the partnerships with educational institutions. 

How do your educational partnerships help local small and medium-size employers address their own workplace needs? 

Mr. JOHNSON. Thank you very much for the question. 

For what we do with BASF, we look for our corporate partners, 

our industry partners to come along with us for the ride, because 

we cannot do it alone. The last thing I would ever want whenever 

I go to an advisory committee for a technical school to talk to them 

about the alignment between their learning outcomes and our 

KSAs, knowledge, skills and abilities that we need to hire, is for 

us to be the only ones at the table. 

We want our other industry partners there so that we come together with what we think the foundation should be so that there 

is a true handshake between our individual training programs inside industry where we can all take over. So we want them there 

with us, and not only do we want, but we actually seek them out 

to be sure that they are part of everything that we do when it 

comes to career and technical education awareness. 

Ms. FOXX. Thank you. 

And I want to say to all our witnesses and to Ranking Member 

Polis, I’m so grateful that you presented so many facts today on the 

positive impact of career and technical education, because I think 

it’s so important that we get that information out there in the public to offset what Mr. Rowe talks about, and that is helping to 

change the image of career and technical education. 

And I can’t let this hearing go by without reminding people that 

Harvard College began as a vocational school. And if you don’t believe me, look it up. 

Ms. Goble, in your testimony you described how work-based 

learning elevates the student experience and leads to more engaged 

students. I agree that work-based learning is critical for exposing 

students to the skills they need to succeed in the workplace. But, 

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unfortunately, too few students have the opportunity to participate 

in such programs. 

Tell me the challenges you’ve faced in expanding the number of 

work-based learning opportunities for students and how you’ve 

overcome these challenges. 

Ms. GOBLE. Thank you. 

Yes, it is a challenge to have every student participate in workbased learning activities, and part of that is driven by how many 

industry partnerships you have. In our district, we are continuing 

to get more and more industry partners, which helps facilitate that. 

Additionally, we’ve tried to overcome that challenge by having all 

school career fairs where every student in the high school participates and they have a chance to interface with industry. As I mentioned with our region Pathways to Professions expo event, that 

was a great opportunity for work-based learning where students 

could actually talk with businesses, they were exchanging business 

cards, making arrangements for job shadows, and all sorts of other 

activities. 

But it is a challenge. In a perfect world, we would have every one 

of our students do a half-day job shadow in their high school experience. It’s just not practical, we don’t have that many business 

people. 

Ms. FOXX. Thank you very much. I know this is a challenge. I 

used to have interns in my office when I worked at Appalachian 

State University from the local high school who were in the business programs. So I know it’s been going it on for a long time. We 

just need to broaden it. 

Mr. Rowe, I want to thank you for being the incredible advocate 

that you have been for hard work in the skilled trades. And I agree 

with you completely, we need to change the way people think about 

career and technical education. And I do think that we all have a 

responsibility to do that. All of us here, all of us in any part of education in particular. 

And I want to say that folks who have been around me for very 

long know that I really get on to people for their language as it relates to what we’re talking about. And I do think getting rid of the 

word vocational education would help us a great deal, because I 

ask people when they are going to college: What do you want when 

you get out of college, 4-year college? Or now 6-year college. It 

takes 6 years to get a degree. They all say: A job. So all of education is vocational education, in my opinion. So we can work on 

changing our language. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize for going over. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the chairwoman. 

Mr. Scott, you’re recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Lufkin, in the old days, vocational education was an alternative to an academic career. You’d learn a little trade, shop or 

something, get a job and keep it for 40 years. Now people are 

changing jobs frequently during their career and they need the 

education. So career and technical education should not be an alternative to academics, but an alternative setting where you can 

learn the same thing and not get off track. 

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Does the present CTE legislation require the basic education to 

be achieved instead of an alternative to learning what you need to 

know? 

Ms. LUFKIN. Thank you for the question, Chairman Scott. 

The current Perkins legislation has extremely strong provisions 

in it for the integration of academic and career and technical preparation. There includes an academic performance measure for secondary students. Technical skill attainment are also included in 

the performance accountability system. 

So the connection between academic preparation and technical 

skill preparation is really a critical component of current the Perkins legislation. 

Mr. SCOTT. Does that need to be improved to make sure that 

they get the academics or is that sufficient? 

Ms. LUFKIN. Well, certainly I think any improvement in that 

area would help continue to make those connections. The legislation that was passed by this body last fall also continued that and 

strengthened that, I think, to some degree. 

I think that the issue here also which I think is critically important to look at is to ensure that States and local educational agencies are collecting disaggregated data by special population, status, 

race, ethnicity, and gender, to ensure that any academic achievement gaps are addressed in order to identify those equity gaps and 

close them. And the legislation that you passed last fall included 

a needs assessment language in it that was, I think, a really good 

provision that moves towards that. 

But certainly strengthening the connection between technical 

skill attainment and academic preparation. To eliminate those 

lines, as Congresswoman Foxx mentioned, there really should be no 

difference between academic preparation and technical skill attainment. Education is education, and the outcome we hope for that is 

for every student to come out of their experience with a career. 

Hopefully, not be in school for the rest of their life. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you. And how do you focus on those most likely to unemployed, to make sure money is targeted to where it most 

needs to go? 

Ms. LUFKIN. So the way the funds are distributed now through 

an allocation process includes student population, as well as income levels as part of the formula, and that’s an important component of this. The schools that have the highest need in terms of 

low-income students also potentially have the highest need for career and technical education to ensure students obtain the benefits 

of higher wage potential in their future and to become economically 

self-sufficient. 

Provisions in the legislation, I think, that are also critical include 

in addition to accountability measures that look at the performance 

of those students through disaggregated data, but also the kinds of 

incentives that exist through the required uses of funds section of 

the legislation that actually puts a priority on ensuring that lowincome students and students who are likely to be unemployed also 

receive benefits. 

I think one of the biggest challenges in the current technical education system or in the education system more broadly is that students who are at risk of dropping out are often sent to alternative 

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schools, and alternative schools don’t always have the best access 

to career and technical education. And that is a real problem. 

When I was working as a teacher in California, we frequently 

saw students who were pregnant and parenting students, students 

who had behavioral issues in the regular high school, sent to an alternative school, and then were removed from having access to career and technical education. 

Actually, CTE is a dropout prevention. It is 1 of the 15 strategies 

of the National Dropout Prevention Center has identified as a best 

practice, and it needs to be available to every student regardless 

of the systems that they are in. 

Mr. SCOTT. So when Ms. Goble suggested that high school students could get credit, save money, and save time to get credentials 

and reduce the dropout rate, was she right? 

Ms. LUFKIN. Yes, absolutely. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

Dr. Roe, you’re recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. ROE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And it’s good to have a relative on the panel today, a fellow Roe. 

Mr. ROWE. You’re missing a W. 

Mr. ROE. Thank you. 

In the State of Tennessee we recognized this problem a few years 

ago, and hats off to our State legislature and the Governor who 

provides -- ours is the only State in the union, I think, that provides free community college and technical college for anyone. 

We also have a program -- Mr. Johnson brought up 11,000 people, seniors, turning 70, each and every day. And we have also a 

program in the State called Tennessee Reconnect where you can 

bring people, let’s say their job has gone to Mexico, China, wherever, and they need to retrain, they can be brought into our technical schools, 27 of them in the State. And we have one within 1 

hour of every person in our State that can come back. I told the 

Governor: I don’t know whether it will help you or me, but I think 

certainly in the future, in the next 20, 30 years, it will be tremendously beneficial to our State. 

Just to give you a couple of statistics, even during the height of 

the Great Recession, between 80 and 90 percent of the people who 

trained in the technical schools were able to be employed in the 

skill that they had learned. 

Mr. Rowe pointed out that his guidance counselor gave him some 

advice. My guidance counselor in high school advised me to not go 

to college, to take up a trade. I did take up a trade, it was called 

doctoring, but I did go on to medical school. So I had a trade, it 

was operating on people. 

Other people had a different trade, and one of the things I found 

out in my practice was that we needed those skills to operate the 

practice. So we trained people in our office, nursing assistants, 

LPNs, on and on. I’m not talking about the degree people. But you 

can’t operate in the healthcare sector without these folks or many 

sectors. 

The average beginning wage of a welder that leaves one of our 

technical schools from my local community is $35,000. And I talked 

to a young man not long ago and his guidance counselor. This 

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young man just a couple or 3 years out of technical school was 

making a six-figured income in welding. 

Eighty to 90 percent of our students get job placement in their 

field immediately, as opposed to what Mr. Johnson and others of 

you all have said about you graduate from college and you can’t 

find a job. 

So I’ve become a huge career leader for CTE. I think it is a road. 

And the question I have for any of you on the panel, and maybe 

I’ll start with Mr. Rowe, is how do we convince young people it’s 

a great thing do? I mean, I have a lot of status with what I did. 

But there is status in making a good living for your family also. 

So how do we get this drilled down -- I think you guys are right 

-- down into the fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade level to tell kids, 

‘‘Hey, there are a lot of things you can do’’? 

So I’ll start with you, Mr. Rowe. 

Mr. ROWE. Well, if you want to make America great again, you’ve 

got to make work cool again. You’ve got to make it aspirational. It 

can’t be this thing that’s sitting there for a whole bunch of people 

who failed on the aspirational road. It can’t be that vocational consolation prize. You just have to change the image of the opportunity. 

And, you know, there are so many ways you can look at the language and see how we got to where we are. But, you know, the 

word vocational is an interesting thing to kind of riff on, because 

it didn’t used to be vocational education or even shop, it used to 

be the vocational arts. So what we did was we took the art out of 

the vocation and all we left was some version of drudgery. 

And you could do that to your career or mine or really anybody’s. 

If you take the artistry out of it, you’re just not left with much 

that’s visually appealing from the outsiders. 

So we just have to be aware of how we present these opportunities to kids. And, obviously, on the front line of that are the parents 

of the kids and the guidance counselors. 

So the language matters, the opportunity matters, and the challenge matters, too, you know. My foundation focuses on these jobs, 

but we do it through the lens of work ethic. You know, we challenge people: You’ve got to make a case for yourself if you’re going 

to get access to our little pile of money, and then you need to enthusiastically advance. So it is a slightly different way of coming 

at it and a long way of saying you’ve just got to make it cool somehow. 

Mr. ROE. Well, one of things I hear, and maybe -- we don’t have 

a lot of time left -- but I go to a lot of manufacturers in my district, 

and I hear over and over again: We can teach you how to do these 

things. If you can present with the soft skills, will you show up at 

8 o’clock, will you be there at 5 o’clock, and you pass a drug test? 

I hear it all the time. And I think those are the things we have 

got to teach young people, that work is important, you also have 

to have these other skills to be able to be successful at work. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank, Doctor. 

Mr. Garrett, you’re recognized for 5 minutes. 

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Mr. GARRETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the 

panel. It’s a real -- speaking with the chair of the full committee 

-- Chairman ROKITA. Would the gentleman turn his mike on? 

Mr. GARRETT. Sometimes you’ve got to find your passion and 

sometimes you walk headlong into it. But this CTE topic today is 

so important. And I’m really heartened to hear someone far smarter than myself, Mike Rowe, sort of articulate some of the things 

that I have been saying for years. And I want to pound on these 

because I think they bear repeating. 

I’ve referred to an educational-industrial complex to get to the 

heart of it and to bring home to people just how bad the problem 

I think has become. We’ve created a paradigm wherein we define 

success for young people as a 4-year degree from a liberal arts 

school and a lot on the corner in a subdivision, and that’s wonderful for everybody for whom it’s wonderful. But, you know, I think 

9 percent of my high school went on to 4-year colleges, and the guy 

who I graduated with who fixes my car can do things that I could 

never begin to do. And he, by the way, has a son who’s on a full 

ride to a graduate degree in molecular biology at the University of 

Notre Dame. There’s no dishonor in an honorable career. I would 

contend that every American is entitled to two things: number one, 

an opportunity, and number two, the right to define success for 

themselves so long as long as it doesn’t impact the liberty of others. 

And we have painted into a corner the skilled laborer that built 

this Nation, and it’s tragic. So we have to break that paradigm. 

And you’ve done more to do that in the last 6 or 7 years than I 

may ever do, and I thank you. 

Mr. ROWE. You’re welcome. 

Mr. GARRETT. As it relates to CTE, I know we can do it because 

I’ve seen it done here in this country. I recently was in Germany 

and visited the Bayer Corporation and watched where they had 

some 200-plus young people straight out of high school who were 

learning to do things like be lab chemists, like care for animals, 

physical security, data analysts who came straight out into these 

fields because the private sector decided that they were going to 

create the employees that they needed to be successful. BASF, I 

think, deserves some credit for doing that same sort of thing. But 

we can do more of that. 

Having said that, as we look to what the paradigm moving forward should be, I would argue that the best arbiter of the needs 

of the working world are the local communities. In my former job 

in the Virginia Senate we saw the community colleges, PVCC, 

CVCC, Southside Virginia Community College, partner with entities like BWX and Areva, with UVA Health System, and say, 

‘‘Where are the needs?’’ and then start creating a workforce for 

those needs. 

So we can do this. But sometimes, I think, when we try to dictate 

it from on high at a Federal level, we just miss the target because 

we don’t know exactly what we ought to be aiming at as well as 

the State and local folks do. 

Having said that, I will turn right back around and commend the 

Old Dominion Job Corps, with whom I work directly. And it was 

an eye-opening experience when I walked in there a couple years 

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ago and I said, ‘‘Where are you having your best luck placing young 

people?’’ And these are young people from challenging backgrounds, 

socioeconomic distress, tough scenarios, single-parent households. 

And they said, ‘‘Well, we have 16 kids in the machining program, 

15 of them are placed. The 16th has a mother who’s sick with cancer. He’s going to go home and spend some time with her and then 

pick from a series of job options.’’ 

I said, ‘‘What’s the average starting hourly?’’ They were in the 

mid-20s, and the master machinist may very well at one point, 

hopefully, live across the street from the doctor and the lawyer and 

the college professor. But nobody is telling our young people this. 

So to the extent that we can make an impact by continuing to 

do what a lot of you -- and particularly you, Mr. Rowe -- have done 

and saying, ‘‘Hey, guys, this is an option, there is no shame in it, 

in fact there’s honor in it,’’ we have a duty to do that. 

So I apologize for having more a soliloquy than a question-andanswer session, but to the extent that I could lend my voice to the 

small but hopefully growing chorus, this is a no-brainer. The question then becomes how we best do it. 

And I would argue we need to listen to the localities and the 

States about what their needs are in their specific geographical 

area, and then let employers like BASF and BWX drive the need 

train. Because what I don’t want to do is watch the money be sent 

from the locality to the Federal level and then have the administrative cost of handling money take 40 cents out of every dollar and 

then plow it back down to only create more young people who have 

skills but not in the area where the demand exists in their communities. 

So having said that, I’d yield back the balance of my time, but 

thank you immensely, and say that I really look forward to hopefully continuing to work in this area. There is a message that’s 

more important really than anything else, and that, I think, Mr. 

Rowe hit on, and that is there is no shame in any of this. An honest career in a skilled field is as honorable as anything anybody on 

this dais will do. 

Thank you. 

Chairman ROKITA. The gentleman yields. 

I recognize myself for 5 minutes. 

I want to thank the witnesses again for your testimony. I continue to learn a lot. 

Mr. Rowe, I’d like to start with you, picking up on Mr. Garrett’s 

theme. I mean, we’re all in this room together. We all want the 

same thing. We’ve heard from your testimony specifically that the 

skills gap continues to widen, because of you mostly but maybe 

some other things. 

So what advice do you have for us? I mean, if I understand your 

background correctly, it’s in theater, it’s in some other things, and 

it’s in experience in this very part of our economy. What do you 

have for us in terms of efforts to change the public’s perception specifically? Any to-do list or anything like that? 

Mr. ROWE. Yeah. I mean, it’s that thousand-points-of-light thing, 

on the one hand. 

I was at a gala two nights ago my foundation sponsored called 

Project JumpStart up in Baltimore. Basically, to your point, you 

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47 

know, this is a foundation that evolved because the local builders 

simply couldn’t find people who were enthused about learning a 

trade. So they went into the inner city, and they also focused on 

nonviolent offenders. They set up a pre-apprenticeship program 10 

years ago. Eight-hundred people have matriculated. The stick rate 

is 75 percent. No other similar effort in workforce development has 

yielded that kind of result. 

So we have to find those opportunities where they exist, and 

then we have to shine a really bright light on them, and we have 

to tell stories of the guy I met two nights ago. Toemore Knight was 

his name. He was making $10 a day 8 years ago. Now he’s a master electrician, 52 bucks an hour. He should be on a poster, you 

know? 

In the 1950s, our country had this terrible, dysfunctional relationship with litter. You know, way before the green thing, there 

was ‘‘Keep America Beautiful.’’ That was a campaign that actually 

started with some government help, some NGOs, some concerned 

citizens, and some big businesses. And they got together -- you’ll 

remember the weeping Indian on the side of the highway. That was 

an iconic image. And it took about a generation and a half for the 

needle to move, but it did. And a lot of money went into a media 

campaign. And in a lot of different ways, that consortium challenged our relationship with litter. 

We can do the same thing with work, but it will take time. That’s 

what I meant when I said we’ve got to make it cool again. We need 

images, we need portrayals, and we need to challenge the stigmas 

and stereotypes where we find them. Right? Not every plumber in 

the world is 300 pounds with his pants halfway down. Even though 

that’s what it looks like on TV, that’s not the way it is. 

So we need to have fun with it, call it out when we see a misrepresentation, and provide better optics. There are a thousand 

ways to do it. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank you, Mr. Rowe. I appreciate your leadership again. 

And I guess for the rest of you three, let me set this up, taking 

Mr. Rowe’s comments and saying, you know, if we’re going to have 

a free republic, if we’re going to continue to have one, we need engaged citizens. I need critical thinkers. We need all these things. 

And one of my fears -- and maybe some others share it, and it’s 

apparently unfounded, but I want you to address it -- is that we 

can’t have automatons. And I remember back when I was in high 

school -- I’m a bit of a gearhead. I still restore cars. I break as 

much as I fix, and that kind of thing, but it’s something I’m very 

interested in. It’s good therapy, Mr. Rowe, for being in Congress. 

I can actually try to fix things. 

And what I was pleased about was my mother insisted that I go 

on to college, where I learned more critical thinking skills, where 

I learned about Locke and Hobbes and all these other people who 

had big ideas. And I use that today still. 

For the one that goes to career and technical education as a 17- 

, 15-, 18-year-old but that might be the entrepreneur that hasn’t 

been exposed to that yet, that might be the next President or the 

leader, how do we ensure that those skills are preserved while 

we’re teaching them such a technical education? 

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Ms. Goble? 

Ms. GOBLE. One valuable way that we do in our district -- and 

this is prevalent across the Nation as well -- is through our career 

and technical student organizations. When you talk about those 

foundational skills, critical thinking, presentations, soft skills, 

those types of things that are so critical in the workplace, having 

students participate in those organizations such as FBLA, FFA, 

and other things really helps those students gain those leadership 

skills. And those are the types of things that last throughout their 

entire life. 

It also addresses what Mr. Rowe was bringing up about it being 

fun and cool to be participating in CTE. When students are engaged in those CTSOs, those student organizations, they’re having 

a good time, and they’re learning some valuable skills they will 

keep a lifetime. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank you. 

Mr. Johnson, can I give you the last 10 seconds on my question? 

Thank you. 

I’m sorry, Ms. Lufkin. I’m not going to get to you. 

Mr. JOHNSON. Sure. No problem. 

One of the best ways that we’ve seen to do it is to be sure that 

the different courses, the certificate programs versus the associate 

degrees, are stackable skills so that we can focus on the technical 

education part of it, what they need to know to perform on the job, 

but then, as they complete that first portion of that training or that 

technical education, they’re able to move on to the critical-skills 

types of learning as well. 

And whether they do all together, if they go ahead and get their 

first job through that certificate, then they can continue on with 

those critical thinking skills. 

Chairman ROKITA. Do you feel you have engaged citizens at 

BASF working as your employees? 

Mr. JOHNSON. Absolutely. 

Chairman ROKITA. Thank you. 

Ms. Bonamici, you’re recognized for 5 minutes. 

Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

When I’m home in Oregon, I spend as much time as I can visiting schools and meeting with students and educators and parents. 

And every community I visit, there’s universal support for Perkins 

CTE and the high-quality CTE programs. 

I visit programs that are serving diverse students, challenging 

them academically, preparing them for high-skilled, in-demand 

jobs. One of my favorite visits, although there have been many, 

was the girls-only welding class at Sherwood High School. I also 

visited a great auto tech program recently at Beaverton High 

School. 

And I know that it takes strong partnerships to develop successful CTE programs that serve all students, especially those in 

underrepresented communities that are aligned with local labor 

markets. 

In Oregon, the Portland Area Career Technical Education Consortium, PACTEC, is an example. In my district, Portland Community College manages partnerships with school districts and industry groups and develops those strong articulation agreements. And 

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this means that high school students pursuing programs of study 

can earn college credit and transition to the community college and 

gain skills that are used by industry partners. 

A number of the school districts in PACTEC are relatively small 

and are situated in rural areas, so forming that consortium and 

partnering with community colleges help these districts. But, still, 

delivering the high-quality CTE programs in rural areas often requires overcoming financial and geographic obstacles. 

I do want to mention, too, that Yamhill Carlton High School in 

my district has a viticulture program that teaches students how to 

work in the wine industry, which is a big part of the economy in 

that rural community. I think it’s the only high school with a vineyard. 

So, Ms. Lufkin, can you discuss what more the Federal Government can do to help rural schools in particular develop high-quality 

CTE programs and advance equity in CTE? 

Ms. LUFKIN. Thank you. 

So I’m a former ag teacher -- I should admit that openly here -- 

and taught in a very small rural high school actually in northern 

California. That experience has taught me quite a bit about how 

to access resources in a community that’s disengaged from an 

urban center. And I, of course, was doing that at a time when we 

didn’t have the technology that we have available today. 

So in the work that we’re doing -- and in your State, actually, 

we have a significant initiative going on with the Oregon Department of Education through the Perkins Act that is supporting increasing access and success of underrepresented students in nontraditional career and technical education programs across your 

State. And that has been incentivized basically by the accountability provisions in the Perkins Act and also by the other provisions around the State leadership funds that encourage support for 

nontraditional students. 

We’ve been working with a significant number of rural schools. 

You mentioned Roseburg -- there’s a school in Roseburg that has 

a very large class of young women who are in their welding program. And that happened as a result of this initiative. 

And it’s really the Federal policy that’s in the Perkins Act that 

has driven this. It creates an incentive. It creates a sense of need. 

Whether it’s the carrot or a stick approach in this case, what I love 

is when I hear principals say, I had no idea this was an issue for 

us, and when they discover it, that they actually can effect it. 

Ms. BONAMICI. I want to follow up. You mentioned accountability, and I really agree with the need for accountability in any 

CTE reauthorization to make sure we’re really increasing participation in CTE, especially with groups historically underrepresented. 

So can you talk about what this committee can do to give States 

and districts the tools they need to use data? Oftentimes, school 

districts don’t have the capacity to make use of disaggregated data. 

So what can we do to help to make sure that they’re continually 

improving their programs and that they adopt research-backed 

strategies for advancing equity in CTE? 

Ms. LUFKIN. Well, actually, there are a few provisions that you 

included in the bill that you passed last fall that do that. 

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So one is the requirement for disaggregated data to begin with. 

Actually, you might be surprised, but when we go and work with 

schools, they have really the capacity to deal with that data in a 

much better way than I think we assume they do. 

Ms. BONAMICI. That’s reassuring. 

Ms. LUFKIN. Yes. Yeah. Database analysis of performance gaps 

has become common-day practice, at least in career and technical 

education for sure. 

Ms. BONAMICI. In my few remaining seconds, last Congress I 

worked with Representative Stefanik to include language in the 

CTE bill that would authorize Federal funds for integrating arts 

and design skills into CTE programs. We’re an innovation economy. 

Can you discuss the benefits for students and local economies of 

teaching arts and design skills in CTE programs of study? 

Ms. LUFKIN. Absolutely. Those skills are critical for innovation. 

And what we know is that students who have the ability to think 

creatively can be more innovative. There has been, actually, research studies that show that kind of practice in technical settings, 

the combination of design and critical thinking skills, creates more 

innovative solutions. 

Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you. 

And as I yield back, I invite all my colleagues to join the bipartisan STEAM Caucus. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROKITA. We love bipartisanship. 

The gentlewoman’s time has expired. 

Mr. Thompson, you’re recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you so much 

for having this hearing. 

I want to thank all the witnesses, your organizations, your companies, your personal work, everything you’ve done in terms of 

being champions for career and technical education training. As cochair of the Career and Technical Education Caucus, I mean, I 

share your passion. I know how important that is. 

Mr. Rowe, good to see you, as a brother Eagle Scout. The last 

time we met -- the first time we met, actually, and the last time 

we met was at the National Jamboree in West Virginia. Hopefully 

I’ll see you there later this year. Hopefully you’ll be coming back, 

and I’m looking forward to visiting. 

My first question is for you, Mike. In your testimony, you mentioned Project JumpStart, a very successful job-training program 

which really does sound like music to my ears and those of my colleagues, I’m sure. 

Now, you mentioned its success in urban areas. Do you or have 

you seen this model work in rural areas? 

Mr. ROWE. No, I haven’t. In fact, I haven’t seen it firsthand work 

anywhere but Baltimore, which is why I’m behind it. I grew up 

there, but I also think that, as a format or a template, it’s lowhanging fruit. It’s something that could easily be identified. It’s not 

really on point to the bill I know we’re contemplating, but it does 

check a few of the boxes, you know. 

I would suggest an even better organization to make people more 

aware of is SkillsUSA. You mentioned the Boy Scouts; you mentioned Future Farmers of America. You know, I’ve worked pretty 

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closely with both of those groups. But nobody hits it as squarely 

on the head as SkillsUSA -- 300,000 kids basically competing every 

year in national competitions within the CTE world. And it’s phenomenal to watch their passion, and it’s amazing to watch them 

grow. And it’s criminal that more people don’t know about them. 

I mean, literally, you fill a room with 1,000 people and 950 have 

never, ever heard of them. 

But they’re the best example I have of a private organization 

that really stepped up to kind of fill in that smoldering crater we 

created when we took the vocational arts out of high school. There 

are many, many others, but, in terms of PR, we’ve got to hear more 

about JumpStart and we’ve got to hear more about SkillsUSA. 

Mr. THOMPSON. I mean, you raised a very important issue I 

think we’re all aware of, is a lack of -- well, we’re aware of, but 

it’s the lack of awareness of the incredible opportunities. And some 

of that can be achieved through raising awareness of SkillsUSA 

and other great programs that we have in place. Because I think 

today we still deal with a stigma, you know, among students and, 

more specifically, among parents. And I know that with the legislation last year that we’ll be reintroducing here hopefully next 

month, part of that was pushing down an awareness to the middle 

school, earlier, for kids to be able to have that information. 

Ms. Lufkin, first of all, thank you for your service as a former 

agriculture educator. Agriculture certainly is one of the -- well, it 

is the largest industry in Pennsylvania. One out of seven jobs come 

from agriculture. And the connection between strengthening career 

and technical education and improving the agriculture industry is 

undeniable. I love the STEAM Caucus, but I have a double A; it’s 

arts and agriculture. 

Your testimony made it clear that students who engage in CTE 

during their time in school tend to have access to a higher quality 

of life. How can a reauthorization of the Perkins Act help give more 

students from all backgrounds this promising opportunity to succeed? 

Ms. LUFKIN. That’s a big question. 

So I think access to high-quality career and technical education 

is sort of the key component of this. And that is ensuring that 

every career and technical education program that’s funded with 

Federal funds is of that nature. 

So I know that the Association for Career and Technical Education -- we have been involved in this -- are in the process of creating criteria around what that particularly means. And so certainly the Federal legislation could support the inclusion of what 

‘‘high quality’’ stands for. So articulated credits, integrated curriculum; equity is a component of that; access to work-based learning; dual enrollments -- all of those and more could certainly be 

incentivized in the legislation. 

I think also ensuring that special populations have access, more 

than just nondiscriminatory language, but actually proactive strategies for engaging special population students in career and technical education, are also other ways that the legislation could be 

supportive of the question of access to CTE. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you. 

Thank you, Chairman. 

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Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

I now recognize Mr. Polis for 5 minutes. 

Mr. POLIS. Thank you. 

Ms. Lufkin, I want to thank you for being here again today. 

You know, in Denver, the Career Education Center Early College 

Magnet School helps prepare students for the workforce by providing career and technical education through dual and concurrent 

enrollment. I am very proud to say that about 10,000 students in 

Colorado participated in career and technical education concurrent 

enrollment courses, which is about 40 percent of all concurrent enrollment students. So it’s become a very prevalent part of our concurrent enrollment system. 

As you indicated in your testimony, concurrent enrollment is a 

proven method for helping students have access to career and technical education. I wanted you to talk about the role of concurrent 

enrollment and particularly how it can support first-generation students, nontraditional college-goers, and other disadvantaged youth 

and the role that plays in career and technical education? 

Ms. LUFKIN. Thank you for the question. And I think that there 

are lots of ways that dual enrollment actually does that. 

First of all, access to college for a first-generation student may 

contain within it a variety of barriers, whether they’re financial, 

whether it’s parental support. It could even be an issue of transportation, location, especially when we’re talking about rural schools. 

And the availability of postsecondary credit while obtaining a high 

school diploma is a significant incentive for particularly low-income 

students to access college in a way that doesn’t do what Mr. Rowe 

was talking about, creating this huge college debt. 

First-generation students also may not have the same support 

systems in place for students to be able to access college. So for 

students to have success in a dual enrollment system, for example, 

can provide them with their own internal incentives to continue. 

And the research shows that actually is the case. 

Mr. POLIS. Mrs. Goble, do you have experience with dual concurrent enrollment programs in Utah? And do you want to speak to 

their relevance to career and technical education? 

Ms. GOBLE. Absolutely. You know, we offer a lot of dual enrollment, partnering with Salt Lake Community College. As Ms. 

Lufkin mentioned, it is a great opportunity for particularly underrepresented students to be able to do that. In Utah, it’s only $5 a 

credit, which is a huge bonus for them. To be able to do college 

courses -- 

Mr. POLIS. By the way, what is the normal cost for a credit outside of that? 

Ms. GOBLE. It’s about $150. 

Mr. POLIS. It’s a big difference. 

Ms. GOBLE. Yeah, a huge difference. And to be able to have students participate in college-level coursework within the safe confines of a regular classroom that they’re familiar with bridges that 

gap, and they feel like they have the internal ‘‘I can do it,’’ and 

they do. 

Mr. POLIS. The other topic I wanted to touch on is the value of 

apprenticeship programs in career and technical education. Colorado recently launched CareerWise, a public-private partnership 

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that has a goal of training 20,000 students for need-based, highpaying jobs through apprenticeships. Colorado’s program is an example, but it’s something we need to do more of. Many unions have 

been leading the way on apprenticeship programs for decades. 

I wanted to go to Mr. Rowe and Mr. Johnson -- we’ll go to Mr. 

Rowe first -- to briefly talk about the role of apprenticeships, how 

they support and prepare students and how they can be an effective model for career and technical education. 

Mr. ROWE. I just can’t imagine a more important paradigm or 

model, you know, in any trade, in any vocation, the business of 

showing up and putting your hands on the thing, whether you’re 

a doctor or a mechanic. 

Mr. POLIS. And do you think it makes a difference that many of 

the apprentices are actually getting paid? And they probably need 

to get paid during that period. Does that make a difference in participation as well? 

Mr. ROWE. Sure, it does. You know, I mean, and you can see it 

right now in so many private companies too. Caterpillar has a program called Think Big, I believe. And a lot of companies have a different version of it, but it’s a transitional way to get a kid right 

from high school right into the work and reward them along the 

way. 

With the Project JumpStart thing we were mentioning, you 

know, they use stipends, you know, instead of a paycheck. But the 

interesting thing is with JumpStart is there’s a consequence. Somebody was talking about soft skills. You show up late, they take the 

stipend. Shirt’s not tucked in, cell phone goes off -- so it’s a great 

way, the apprenticeship model, to, again, reward the kind behavior 

you want to encourage. 

Mr. POLIS. And, Mr. Johnson, can you address why it’s important 

to include apprenticeships in Perkins CTE reauthorization? 

Mr. JOHNSON. Apprenticeships provide such a connection with 

the job before they finish their actual education that they get a realistic job preview the entire time that they’re getting the education. It not only increases their direct applied skill because it’s 

the actual work that they’ll be doing, but it conveys even more 

knowledge to them that they can talk to their friends about. And 

it becomes really an awareness that pushes career and technical 

education awareness in the forefront in that way. 

Mr. POLIS. Thank you. 

And I yield back. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

The gentleman from Indiana is recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. MESSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this important hearing. 

You know, we’ve talked about it before in this committee, but it 

is important we start to rethink many of these programs. You 

know, some of our higher education programs are some of the most 

successful Federal programs ever invented, but many of them are 

structured on a what I called four-homecomings-and-a-backpack 

kind of approach, where we think of an 18-year-old kid grabbing 

her backpack, running off to school. Some kids do that, but, of 

course, in today’s world where careers can change many times 

throughout your lifetime, that doesn’t fit everybody’s needs. And, as 

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others have discussed, we need to get folks prepared for a job in 

the economy. That’s where we really give them value. And 6 in 10, 

as many as 6 in 10, manufacturing jobs go unfulfilled because we 

don’t have folks that are trained and prepared for that job. 

I wanted to direct my first question to Mr. Johnson. 

And we’ve heard and I’ve heard in my district from many employers that discuss the challenges they face in finding skilled employees. How do these workforce shortages affect companies? 

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, I’ve attended a number of conferences recently where we talk about that very thing. We talk about this projected skills gap, this projected gap of employees that are going to 

be available for even in the manufacturing sector. 

And, sadly, some of the organizations are now beginning to plan 

on the possibility that that’s actually going to happen. It’s almost 

-- they’re not trying to -- they’re still trying to fix the problem, but 

they’re so convinced that it’s an inevitability that they’re planning 

on that not happening. 

So we basically must continue to push that idea that this is a 

job that is worth people having. 

Mr. MESSER. And I guess what you’re saying there, Mr. Johnson, 

is that they may have to decide to mechanize or make other decisions as a company because they’re worried that they don’t have 

the workforce to meet their needs, or move somewhere else, or -- 

Mr. JOHNSON. Absolutely. I mean, we have to remember that 

part of the biggest problem I think that we have is that -- and 

we’ve touched on it a number of times -- is the message that we’re 

delivering. 

Organizations all around have what they call a value proposition. 

They talk about, this is why it’s a great place to come and work 

for our organization. Technical sectors, manufacturing sectors have 

to have what I refer to as a manufacturing value proposition: This 

is why this sector of employment is a great place to be. This is the 

type of messaging that, whenever I go and talk to students or retooling adults, that any of us on the panel or any of you go, we 

should be saying the same things, they should be hearing the same 

things, so that we have a branded message. 

We talk about we don’t say the things all the time, but we don’t 

talk about what specifically are the things that we need to say. An 

example of that is, when I see students’ eyes open the most is 

whenever we show them a chart that we created that shows the 

people that are graduating high school at the same time, and they 

choose four or five different careers. The careers we have are welder, process operator, lawyer, teacher. And we show where they go 

in debt to begin with, basically spending money on school one way 

or another, and then they begin making money, which is their average income. 

When we show the chart and we can actually show the students 

and retooling adults that it actually takes a lawyer in the Houston 

area 20 years to catch up with a welder or a process operator because of the length of time they’re still in school while these welders and process operators are making money -- 

Mr. MESSER. Bottom line is -- 

Mr. JOHNSON. That’s an example of the type of information that 

we have to have a branded way of talking. 

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55 

Mr. MESSER. Bottom line, many of these jobs are good-paying 

jobs. We also in our district are working on getting kids to come 

in high school into manufacturing facilities so they can see what 

they look like, right, and that they can see that these can be very 

pleasant places to work. 

Ms. Goble, in my limited time, I wanted to follow up on some of 

Mr. Polis’ comments and ask, are these dual enrollment opportunities accessible to students from low-income backgrounds? And are 

there programs to help students afford these programs if they’re 

unable to cover the costs? 

Ms. GOBLE. Absolutely. Students who are unable to pay for the 

cost -- the college still does require the $5 per credit hour. However, the principals of our high schools have the available funds to 

cover that for any student, because we’re dedicated to make sure 

that they have those same opportunities. 

Mr. MESSER. Yeah. 

I think, with my limited time, I’ll just yield back the rest after 

just thanking you all for all your work that you do every day to 

make sure that people in America have an opportunity and, again, 

thank the chairman for this important hearing. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

The gentleman yields. 

I would now recognize for 5 minutes Mr. Krishnamoorthi, a 

member of the full committee, a guest of the subcommittee today. 

Welcome, sir. 

Mr. KRISHNAMOORTHI. Thank you so much. I’m honored to be 

part of your subcommittee for today. And I think this is such a 

great topic. It’s one that people on both sides of the aisle can really 

get together on and make some progress on. 

It’s my humble belief that, at some point in the history of the 

United States, we’re going to go from a compulsory education system of K through 12 to K through 12-plus. And that ‘‘plus’’ is yet 

to be defined, but I think it’s going to have a heavy career and 

technical education component. 

And here is my, kind of, comment and question, which is that I 

believe that the ultimate indicator of success of these career and 

technical educations is not, kind of, coming out with a piece of 

paper that’s a certificate but, rather, an offer letter. Are they going 

to have a job? That’s what my constituents keep asking me, you 

know. How do we get jobs for our young people? 

And so I believe very much in pushing decision making in the 

CTE program down to local levels as much as possible, because 

people at the local levels know what the local demands are in 

terms of skills and they know what the skill shortages are. 

However -- this is my question -- with regard to the accountability measures, there’s been some questioning of is there enough 

accountability for whether the programs that are funded through 

the, you know, Perkins CTE are strong enough. And one of the accountability measures I’d like to ask about is, you know, what do 

you folks think about, you know, requiring that the students who 

graduate from these CTE programs have a job, or that it’s a significant measure of the success of those programs? 

Mr. Rowe, would you like to comment on that? 

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56 

Mr. ROWE. Well, I can’t speak probably as eloquently to the 

measures in the bill as the other folks, but I can tell you, in my 

foundation, it’s critical. 

You know, there’s this notion, I think, that the existence of opportunity is the balm for unemployment, for instance. And, of 

course, the skills gap tells us that that’s not the case at all. There 

are 5.6 million opportunities, right? 

So back to the enthusiasm. We can’t just assume, in my view -- 

I can’t just say, ‘‘Hey, look at what’s here,’’ and then get out of the 

way and watch the people stampede toward it, right? So the way 

we approach it is we challenge them, you know. We say, look, in 

our little world, you need to comply with some things that might 

not be in this bill. You need to write an essay. You need to submit 

a video. You need to make a persuasive case for yourself. You need 

to submit references. You need to demonstrate work ethic in some 

way that we can demonstrably reward. 

And when we find those kids -- well, we’ve got about 600 who 

have gone through so far. And they work. And they’re using the opportunity for what it is, which is a tool to get to the next level. 

I would also say very, very briefly that it’s so tempting to talk 

about these jobs as destinations, but what we’ve seen through our 

foundation and certainly in my show, so many small businesses 

wind up forming around people who begin their careers by mastering a trade. That has to be a part of the proposition as well, in 

my view. 

Mr. KRISHNAMOORTHI. I’m a former small-businessman. I totally 

agree that I think that the folks coming out of these CTE programs 

could be our future entrepreneurs. And I hope that they are. But 

I kind of go back to this issue of, I’m all for CTE, I’m passionate 

about it, but I just want to make sure that the dollars that go to 

these postsecondary institutions, especially, that are going to be 

doing the CTE are ending up putting our children and students 

into jobs. Job placement is so critical, I think, right now. 

Mrs. Goble? 

Ms. GOBLE. Yeah. With our business partnerships that I referenced earlier, one of the main tenets of that is the students who 

go through those partnerships that are driven by industry actually 

have preferential treatment in the hiring and interview process. So 

that is one thing that we’re really striving for in every one of those 

partnerships. 

Mr. KRISHNAMOORTHI. Okay. Thank you very much. 

I think Mr. Johnson wanted to say something. 

Mr. JOHNSON. So I think there is a way to put real metrics behind it and assure this accountability is there. 

An example is, within BASF, for us to determine which ones that 

we will work on the most, we do hiring projections. You know, 

what are the jobs that are going to be needed the most in the next 

1, 5, and 10 years? The ones that have the highest need for that 

community is where we spend our time and effort. 

That very same thing can be done with your funding allocations 

by basically looking at what are the jobs that really have projected 

openings and that we don’t know how we’re going to fill -- should 

probably have some level of funding that’s increased versus jobs 

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that we know there’s unemployed people all over because there’s no 

jobs for it. 

So some way to balance that funding toward jobs we know that 

America needs and are short on is the best way to do that metric 

system. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. KRISHNAMOORTHI. Thank you. 

Chairman ROKITA. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

I would tell the gentleman that I think you’re right on track, and 

the work that we’ve done last year and that should be in the bill 

this year is a publishing of some sort of job tracker, both at the 

State level and at the Department of Education. 

So I’m glad to know that we’re going to agree on everything in 

this committee. That’s a great start. 

The ranking member is recognized for a closing. 

Mr. POLIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

There’s a report that studied various data sets to identify highgrowth and high-wage occupations in Tennessee. And the information and message that they used can be replicated in other States 

to help States determine if their CTE programs are aligned with 

the local labor market needs. And I ask for unanimous consent that 

this research report be entered in the record. 

Chairman ROKITA. Without objection. 

[The information follows:] 

[Extensive material was submitted by Mr. Polis. The submission 

for the record is in the committee archive https://www.cna.org/ 

cna—files/pdf/CIM-2015-U-011930.pdf for this hearing.] 

Mr. POLIS. I want to thank our witnesses. 

I think a couple takeaways from today’s hearing or running 

theme is that career and technical education programs need to be 

relevant and reflective of the actual needs of the labor market. We 

all know the economy today is not what it was 10 years ago, is not 

what it was 50 years ago. And sometimes, frankly, our school districts and other stakeholders are slow to adapt. Federal investments should ensure that we have that flexibility at the local level 

and encourage that flexibility to meet real workforce needs. 

Career and technical education programs should also invest in all 

students and diverse students and students from underserved communities and have gender parity in the quality of the jobs that students are being prepared for. 

As Ms. Lufkin shared, CTE can be a ladder that lifts students 

into the middle class. CTE is an opportunity to reengage disconnected youth, like the work that I cited at the Colorado Early College School in Denver, where all students graduate with an associate’s degree from high school. 

In order for career and technical education to be effective, it has 

to be adequately funded. We’ve suffered under sequestration and 

budget cuts to Perkins, and, frankly, that’s hurt the ability of CTE 

programs to serve students. Career and technical education is one 

of the best ways to ensure we have a qualified, relevant workforce 

and our country stays competitive. And, frankly, at the end of the 

day, we need to invest in that. 

I want to refer back to Chairman Rokita’s opening remarks. 

Chairman Rokita spoke about our effort to reauthorize CTE last 

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Congress. As he said, this committee produced a bipartisan bill. It 

passed on the House floor. I’m optimistic that any reauthorization 

will also be bipartisan, pass overwhelmingly. 

If we have good ideas both sides of the aisle that improve and 

build upon our mark from last session, I think Members should be 

encouraged to bring those forward and create a work product that 

we as legislators can be proud of and fundamentally will help meet 

the needs of students across the country in preparing them for jobs 

to support their families or for college. 

Thank you again for holding today’s hearing, and I yield back. 

Chairman ROKITA. I thank the gentleman. 

And I thank the members who joined us here today. 

I thank the witnesses. Again, I continue to learn a lot on this 

subject and look forward to working with you as leaders in this 

community to get this job done, the job being the mountain we are 

going to climb again this Congress, in terms of getting this bill 

passed and signed into law. And we’re very optimistic up here 

about those probabilities, but we’re also very sober in terms of the 

hard work that’s ahead of us. So I hope you can join us -- I’m motioning to the witnesses -- I hope you can join us in that effort, and 

I know you will. 

Career and technical education provides increased opportunity 

for all students so that, as Mr. Garrett said in his remarks, Americans can define their own success. And I think that’s the key to it. 

Congress and this committee especially will work to change the 

policies and the perceptions of CTE. And, Mr. Rowe, I look forward 

to -- we look forward to working with you in that regard. And, 

again, thank you for your leadership. 

It seems to me that the actual partnerships with employers are 

the ones that seem to provide the most fruit, not putting any others aside. But I’m going to take that as one of my to-dos, to make 

sure that concept is promulgated as much as possible from a leadership perspective but also in the language of the bill. 

With regard to the money, of course that’s always the issue 

around here. And we are $20 trillion in debt. I completely agree 

with Ranking Member Polis that this is a priority and this is one 

of the things that could lead to not only individual success but our 

success as Americans going forward. So I see this as a high priority. 

But what Mr. Polis didn’t mention, and I’ll simply mention it for 

him and I and everyone else up here: If that is the priority, if that 

is one of the higher priorities, there has to be a lesser priority, or 

else we’re trading problems. We’re giving your future workers, the 

beneficiaries of your foundation and everyone that you work for, a 

different problem -- that is, a higher debt. So budgets are about 

priorities, appropriations are about priorities. If this is a high priority, like I just agreed to, we also have a duty to decide what isn’t 

working, what’s less of a priority, if we’re going to put more money 

to this. So I simply say that as a reminder not only to me but to 

the whole committee as we work forward on this issue. 

And, with that, again, I want to thank the witnesses. I want to 

thank everyone for their leadership going forward as we climb this 

mountain, as I said. 

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And seeing no further business before the committee, I put the 

committee in adjournment. 

[Additional submission by Mr. Barletta follow:] 

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[Additional submission by Mr. Johnson follow:] 

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[Additional submission by Mr. Roe follow:] 

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[Additional submissions by Chairman Rokita follow:] 

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[Additional submission by Mr. Thompson follow:] 

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[Whereupon, at 11:37 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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