1

1 Environmental Protection Agency

2

3

4

5

6 Public Hearing on the

7 PROPOSED CLEAN POWER PLAN

8 FOR EXISTING POWER PLANTS

9

10

11 9:00 a.m. to 7:39 p.m.

12 Tuesday, July 29, 2014

13

14 Omni Hotel at CNN Center

15 100 CNN Center

16 North Tower, Level M4, Room B

17 Atlanta, GA 30303

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1 EPA PANEL NUMBER 1:

2 FRED THOMPSON, Panel 1 Chair; and

3 Associate Division Director,

4 Sectors, Policies, and Programs Division,

5 Office of Air Quality Standards, EPA

6 BEVERLY BANISTER, Air Division Director,

7 Atlanta, EPA

8 DARYL WEATHERHEAD, Managing Economist, Office of

9 Air and Radiation, EPA

10

11 EPA PANEL NUMBER 2:

12 CAROL KEMKER, Panel 2 Chair; and

13 Deputy Air Division Director, Region 4,

14 Southeast, EPA

15 JEB STENHOUSE, Air Program Manager, Office

16 of Air and Radiation, EPA

17 GREG WORLEY, Air Program Manager, Region 4,

18 EPA

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1 EPA PANEL NUMBER 3:

2 BEVERLY BANISTER, Panel 3 Chair; and

3 Air Division Director, Atlanta, EPA

4 JEB STENHOUSE, Air Program Manager, Office

5 of Air and Radiation, EPA

6 DARYL WEATHERHEAD, Managing Economist, Office of

7 Air and Radiation, EPA

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1 C O N T E N T S

2 PAGE

3 PANEL NUMBER 1

4 LAUREN BUBBA McDONALD,

5 Georgia Public Service Commission 17

6 CHUCK EATON,

7 Georgia Public Service Commission 22

8 JIM DOYLE, Business Forward 29

9 JENNETTE GAYER, Environment Georgia 34

10 MARY LOVE, Resident of Kentucky 40

11 KENNETH SMITH,

12 Arkansas Advanced Energy Association 44

13 LAURA MONTGOMERY,

14 Resident of Norcross, Georgia 51

15 LILL MOOD,

16 Alliance of Nurses for Healthy Environment 53

17 WOODY BARTLETT,

18 Georgia Interfaith Power and Light 58

19 PAULA SWINT, Resident of Georgia 62

20 ITA HARDESTY MASON, Environmental activist 68

21 BOBBY GREEN, BioGreenAlgae Enterprises 72

22 DIANNA WEDINCAMP, Excelsior EMC 81

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1 C O N T E N T S (continued)

2 PAGE

3 PANEL NUMBER 1 (continued)

4 DANIEL BLACKMAN, Resident of Georgia 84

5 DON SAFER, Tennessee Environmental Council 90

6 TERI BLANTON, Resident of Kentucky 98

7 JANICE NOLEN, American Lung Association 106

8 LISA RAYNER, Resident of Georgia 113

9 SCOTT SEGAL, 

10 Electric Reliability Coordinating Council 116

11 JOHN POWELL, City of Tallahassee, Florida 126

12 ATTICA SCOTT, Kentucky Councilwoman 131

13 MARY ANNE HITT, Sierra Club 137

14 GREGORY MEINWEISER,

15 University of Tennessee-Knoxville 142

16 REMY DEVOE, American Nuclear Society 143

17 DAVID REYNOLDS, M.D., Retired pediatrician 148

18 LARRY WARTHEN, FACE 155

19 JOHN CASTELLAW, LT GEN, USMC, Retired 158

20 MICHAEL HARDEN, Americans for Prosperity 164

21 LYNN RINGENBERG,

22 University of South Florida-Tampa 169

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1 C O N T E N T S (continued)

2 PAGE

3 PANEL NUMBER 2

4 DANIEL TENPENNY, American Nuclear Society 183

5 RICHARD HERTZBERG, Emory University 

6 186

7 LESLIE AGRON, Candidate, Tennessee State

8 Legislature 193

9 RON SHIPMAN, Georgia Power 199

10 JOSEPH REYNOLDS,

11 Farmer, DeKalb County, Georgia 204

12 ALICE HOWELL, Resident of Kentucky 212

13 HOWARD KATZMAN, GEETA 215

14 DAVID BROWN, Resident of Louisville, Kentucky 221

15 LANCE BROWN, PACE 224

16 CLIFF COCKERHAM, Sierra Club 229

17 ELIZABETH WARNER, Santee Cooper 235

18 JOYCE LANNING, League of Women Voters 242

19 DEBORAH A. JACKSON, Mayor, Lithonia, Georgia 248

20 SANDY KURTZ,

21 Blue Ridge Environmental Defense League 254

22 STEPHANIE STUCKEY-BENFIELD,

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1 Former Georgia State Representative 258

2 C O N T E N T S (continued)

3 PAGE

4 PANEL NUMBER 2 (continued)

5 CHRIS STRIPPELHOFF,

6 Municipal Gas Authority of Georgia 263

7 IRENE BARTON,

8 Mothers and Others for Clean Air 268 

9 CHANDRESH LADVA, Emory University 274

10 ANGELA GARRONE,

11 Southern Alliance for Clean Energy 279

12 STEVE HALSTED,

13 Community United Church of Christ 283

14 GERALD DURLEY,

15 Providence Missionary Baptist Church 290

16 JACQUELYN CARTER, Sierra Club 296

17 KEITH THOMAS, North Georgia Building

18 Construction Trades Council 302

19 MARIBEL BALBIN, League of Women Voters 308

20 NINA McCOY, High School Biology Teacher 312

21 LAURA SEIDELL, 

22 Mothers and Others for Clean Air 317

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1

2 C O N T E N T S (continued)

3 PAGE

4 PANEL NUMBER 2 (continued)

5 EDWARD WOLF, Retired Pastor, Evangelical

6 Lutheran Church in America 322

7 DAVID ROOT, Resident of Georgia 326

8 MICHAEL WHATLEY, Consumer Energy Alliance 331

9 BRIAN RINEHART, University of Rochester 336

10 JOAN LINDOP, Sierra Club 342

11 ELIZABETH POYTHRESS, League of Women Voters 343

12 SAMANTHA SIEGEL, Sierra Club 349

13 MATT CAMPBELL, Smart Transportation Division 355

14 PHILLIP MASSENGILL, Sierra Club 364

15 STEVEN SONDHEIM, Sierra Club 370

16 JENNIFER KADUCK, Agnes Scott College 376

17 MICHAEL HANNAN, Veteran 383

18 JOANNE GOLDENHILL,

19 Kentuckians for the Commonwealth 385

20 TIM WILLIAMS, GreyStone Power Corp. 390

21 JOHN TODD WATERMAN, Organizing for Action 396

22 MARLENE TAYLOR, Knoxville, Tennessee Writer 403

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1 EDRICHUS SYKES, Pure Green Coatings 408

2 C O N T E N T S (continued)

3 PAGE

4 PANEL NUMBER 3

5 ELEANOR HAND, Resident of Atlanta, Georgia, 422

6 MICHAEL WALL, Georgia Organics 428

7 JIM NICHOLS, Resident of Stockbridge, Georgia 429

8 ALEX SOLOMON, Resident of Atlanta, Georgia 433

9 AMELIA SHENSTONE,

10 Southern Alliance for Clean Energy 438

11 MARK WOODALL, Sierra Club 445

12 CASSANDRA WEBSTER,

13 Resident of Atlanta, Georgia 450

14 ALAN HANCOCK,

15 Conservation Voters of South Carolina 454

16 EVERLY JAZI, Asthma sufferer 461

17 MARYANNE DANIELS GARBER,

18 Behavioral Institute of Atlanta 465

19 STEPHEN GARBER, Psychologist and grandfather 470

20 F.G. BEAUREGARD, National Wildlife Federation 477

21 JENNIFER BRYANT, Oconee EMC 482

22 JAMES GILL, Manager, Carroll EMC 486

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1

2 P R O C E E D I N G S

3 PANEL NUMBER 1

4 MR. THOMPSON: For the record, this is 

5 the Public Hearing on the Proposed Carbon 

6 Pollution Plan and the Proposed Carbon Pollution 

7 Standards for Modified and Reconstructed Power 

8 Plants, being held in Atlanta, Georgia, on July 

9 29th, 2014.

10 Good morning.

11 [Chorus of "Good morning."]

12 MR. THOMPSON: My name is Fred Thompson, 

13 and I'm the Associate Division Director of the 

14 Sectors, Policies, and Programs Division in EPA's 

15 Office of Air Quality Standards, and I will be 

16 chairing today's hearing.

17 Thank you all, sincerely. Thank you all 

18 for coming today. Joining me on the panel are, 

19 to my right, Beverly Banister, EPA's Air Division 

20 Director here in Atlanta; and to my left, Daryl 

21 Weatherhead, a managing economist for this rule.

22 We're here today to listen to your 

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1 comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 

2 pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 

3 of these proposed rules on June 2nd, 2014.

4 Power plants are the largest source of 

5 carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 

6 roughly one-third of all domestic greenhouse gas 

7 emissions. The first rule is EPA's proposed 

8 Clean Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 

9 proposal consists of two main parts: state10 specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 

11 power plants; and guidelines to help states 

12 develop their plans for meeting the goals.

13 This proposal gives states flexibility in 

14 determining how to meet their goals. States will 

15 choose what goes into their plans that show how 

16 they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 

17 their goals by 2030.

18 The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 

19 address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 

20 and reconstructed power plants.

21 This rule would set emission limits for 

22 two groups of power plants: those that make 

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1 physical or operational changes that increase the 

2 plant's maximum achievable hourly rate of 

3 emissions; and those that replace components to 

4 such an extent that the new components exceed 50 

5 percent of the capital costs of an entirely new, 

6 comparable facility.

7 If you would like more details on either 

8 of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 

9 available near the registration desk out front.

10 Now, today's hearing is one of four 

11 public hearings across the country this week on 

12 the two proposed rules. We've had tremendous 

13 interest in each of the hearings. And I'd like 

14 to thank you for taking the time out of your day 

15 today to join us and to share your comments.

16 We have a lot of people signed up to 

17 speak today. And we want to hear from all of us. 

18 So, before we get started, I'd like to go through 

19 a few housekeeping items and ground rules that 

20 will help make today's hearing run smoothly.

21 First, please be sure you have checked in 

22 at the registration desk even if you are not 

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1 planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 

2 speak, online or by phone, but haven't told us 

3 that you're here, please step out to the 

4 registration desk and let the EPA staff know 

5 there that you've arrived.

6 Second, if you are a speaker, you were 

7 given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 

8 or Room B. This is Room B. So, let me ask: Are 

9 you in the right room? And if not, that's okay. 

10 This would be a great time to make the 

11 transition. All right?

12 So, here's how today's hearing will work. 

13 I will call speakers up in pairs. When your name 

14 is called, please come to the table at the front 

15 of the room, which is located here. When I call 

16 on you to speak, please state your name and spell 

17 it -- Fred, F-r-e-d, Thompson, T-h-o-m-p-s-o-n --

18 so that the court reporter can record it.

19 Your comments will be transcribed and 

20 included in the record of comments on the 

21 proposed rule. 

22 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

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1 give comments. We have a light to help you know 

2 how much time you have left to speak, and it's 

3 located right here to my left on the corner of 

4 the table.

5 When the light turns from green to 

6 yellow, that you means you have one minute 

7 remaining. When it turns red, that's a signal to 

8 wrap up your testimony. The light will flash red 

9 and beep when you have spoken for five minutes 

10 and it's time to stop.

11 When you're finished speaking, please 

12 remain at the table until the person next to you 

13 has completed his or her testimony.

14 We're here today to listen. However, a 

15 panel member may ask you questions to clarify 

16 your comments. I will then call up the next pair 

17 of speakers, and so on.

18 If you've brought a written copy of your 

19 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 

20 registration desk before you leave today.

21 Because of the large number of people who 

22 have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 

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1 everyone, we're going to have to strictly enforce 

2 the five-minute limit.

3 If you have additional comments you would 

4 like to make, you can submit them in writing. 

5 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as much 

6 consideration to comments we receive in writing 

7 as we do to comments we receive at public 

8 hearings like this one. So, if you have more 

9 that you would like to say, please submit it. 

10 Your comments will be reviewed.

11 There's still plenty of time to get 

12 written comments in, and there are comment cards 

13 available at the registration desk. Comments 

14 must be received by October 16th, 2014. Let me 

15 repeat that: Comments must be received by 

16 October 16th, 2014.

17 We will put any written comments 

18 submitted today in the official docket for the 

19 proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 

20 written comments in other ways are available at 

21 the materials table near the registration desk, 

22 again, located out front.

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1 We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 

2 tonight. And we'll take a lunch and dinner 

3 break. Right now, the lunch break is scheduled

4 for noon and the dinner break is scheduled for 

5 five o'clock. In addition, we may take 

6 occasional short breaks throughout the day as 

7 needed. And we'll keep you posted as the day 

8 goes on.

9 If you have any questions during the day, 

10 please see the staff at the registration desk, 

11 and someone will try to help you.

12 Finally, I want to ask of you to please 

13 be respectful of everyone who speaks today. We 

14 have people with a wide variety of views in the 

15 audience, and we want to hear from all of you. 

16 So we can do that and to be fair to everyone, we 

17 ask that everyone listen quietly. Okay? Even 

18 applause can slow things down, and we want to 

19 hear from everyone who has signed up to speak.

20 So, thank you again for taking the time 

21 to share your comments on the EPA proposed rules. 

22 With that, let's get started.

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1 At this time, I would like to invite 

2 Lauren Bubba McDonald and Chuck Eaton up front 

3 for testimony.

4 [Pause.]

5 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen.

6 [Chorus of "Good morning."]

7 MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, Mr. 

8 McDonald, could you state your name and spell it 

9 for the court reporter, and then begin your 

10 testimony?

11 MS. McDONALD: I'm Loren Bubba McDonald, 

12 that's L-a-u-r-e-n B-u-b-b-a M-c-D-o-n-a-l-d. 

13 And I'm a member of the Georgia Public Service 

14 Commission.

15 I appreciate the opportunity to make some 

16 comments on EPA's proposed GHG emission 

17 guidelines. We in Georgia in the Public Service 

18 Commission do not take these new regulations 

19 lightly. However, we are proud to announce 

20 Georgia has already made great strides in 

21 compliance.

22 First point I would like to make is that 

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1 each state is different as to geographical 

2 location, size, altitude, climate, and natural 

3 resources. The right energy mix for Georgia may 

4 not be the same as it is for California or 

5 Massachusetts.

6 In Georgia, we have already made big 

7 investments in carbon-free energy by building new 

8 nuclear and solar resources. We chose to do this 

9 as we set out our goals without waiting for EPA 

10 to tell us to. Regrettably, EPA's proposal does 

11 not give Georgia enough credit for the smart 

12 nuclear investments that we have already made.

13 Georgia is leading the nation in building 

14 nuclear technology. Nuclear energy is America's 

15 most powerful resource of carbon-free 

16 electricity, and the fuel is abundant. In 2013, 

17 nuclear energy accounted for 63 percent of zero18 carbon electric generation in the United States. 

19 That's three times more emissions-free 

20 electricity than the hydropower and nearly five 

21 times more than wind power.

22 Here in Georgia, our two new state-ofOLENDER REPORTING, INC.

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1 the-art reactors will produce approximately 2,200 

2 megawatts of reliable emissions-free electricity 

3 around the clock. This represents a multi4 billion-dollar investment on the part of Georgia 

5 rate-payers that will benefit everyone in the 

6 planet by reducing emissions. 

7 Does this say that we are not protective 

8 of our climate? I think not. Georgia cares 

9 about the world we live in.

10 EPA's approach to new nuclear units like 

11 these in Georgia is unacceptable. If EPA's 

12 objective is to reduce CO2 emissions, then EPA 

13 should not penalize the citizens of Georgia for 

14 investing billions in more nuclear power by not 

15 giving us full credit for this carbon-free energy 

16 source.

17 Georgia has also taken great steps to 

18 grow our renewable energy portfolio. We have 

19 done this responsibly, without raising rates, so 

20 customers don't see their utility bills go up. 

21 And we've done it without mandates or state 

22 subsidies.

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1 Look at how much we have approved 

2 already. We have over 200 megawatts of biomass 

3 generation, including landfill methane gas, and 

4 over 1,000 megawatts of hydrogenation. And we 

5 approved contracts for another 200 megawatts of 

6 new biomass capacity to be developed in Georgia 

7 by 2017.

8 We recently approved 250 megawatts of new 

9 wind energy that will be serving Georgians by 

10 2016. And of course, our solar programs are now 

11 on track to bring nearly 900 megawatts of solar 

12 onto the grid by 2017. That's a big number for 

13 solar -- so big that Georgia recently jumped up 

14 to being ranked seventh biggest state market for 

15 solar in the United States.

16 Our renewable program has resulted in the 

17 largest volunteer expansion of renewable energy 

18 resources in the United States.

19 We didn't need mandates. We took 

20 advantage of market forces and falling solar 

21 prices, and we let the free enterprise system 

22 take care of the development. We did this with 

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1 no state subsidies or no higher costs that have 

2 passed on to our customers for decades to come.

3 We have already made smart investments 

4 here in Georgia for clean energy, and more is to 

5 come. We are blessed with valuable natural 

6 resources of plentiful solar in our state, and 

7 we're looking forward to how we can improve our 

8 programs to encourage market incentives to grow 

9 solar even more.

10 One example is encouraging local 

11 communities to promote solar farms to locate in 

12 their counties. I've been working with local 

13 officials and with solar developers to figure out 

14 how we can make sure that the investments we make 

15 in new solar farms pay a solar dividend in the 

16 form of full millage rates on solar and on the 

17 solar property of the local communities where 

18 they are built.

19 Revenues from new solar farms can help 

20 fund the local school systems, promote more 

21 economic development in rural parts of our state 

22 that's very much needed.

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1 Here in Georgia, we believe in setting 

2 our own goals for cleaner, modern energy mix that 

3 matches the resources and the needs of our state. 

4 We have put our money where it's needed by these 

5 investments in new nuclear and solar projects to 

6 get us to an abundant, carbon-free electricity.

7 I believe we are on the right track. And

8 we are moving at the right pace. And there is 

9 more to come. With this being said, please leave 

10 us alone. We see the goals ourselves, and we 

11 know how to achieve them. Reward us completely 

12 for our efforts; do not penalize us with partial 

13 credits.

14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. McDonald. 

15 Thank you for your testimony. 

16 Are there any questions from the panel?

17 Please remain in your seat.

18 [No audible response.] 

19 Mr. Eaton, please state and spell your 

20 name for the court reporter, and begin your 

21 testimony, sir.

22 MR. EATON: Sure. My name is Chuck 

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1 Eaton, C-h-u-c-k E-a-t-o-n.

2 Good morning. My name is Chuck Eaton. 

3 I'm Chairman of the Georgia Public Service 

4 Commission. Thank you for holding public 

5 hearings in Atlanta and for the opportunity to 

6 speak today.

7 The mission of the Georgia Public Service 

8 Commission is to ensure that consumers receive 

9 safe, reliable, and reasonably priced 

10 telecommunications, electric, and national gas 

11 services from financially viable and technically 

12 competent companies.

13 Through the PSC's constructive 

14 regulation, we have provided an environment that 

15 supports growth for our state's economy. Today's 

16 proposed rule will significantly impact not only 

17 the operation of existing power plants in 

18 Georgia, but also operation of the electric 

19 system as a whole.

20 As Chairman of the Public Service 

21 Commission, I am deeply concerned that this rule 

22 intrudes in the state's electric regulatory 

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1 authority. This rule also ignores the thorough 

2 process the PSC undertakes to accomplish its 

3 mission.

4 As a result, I am concerned that this 

5 rule, in combination with the EPA's proposed rule 

6 for new power plants, will increase the cost of 

7 power to our citizens and unnecessarily strand 

8 investments we have made in the existing 

9 generation fleet.

10 Georgia has a robust energy-planning 

11 process for electric utilities that involves 

12 long-range planning with a focus on customer and 

13 economic impact. Georgia law requires utilities 

14 regulated by the commission to file an integrated 

15 resource plan at least once every three years. 

16 Once these plans are filed, we undertake 

17 an intensive six-month process to scrutinize and 

18 evaluate the demand-side and supply-side options 

19 included in the plan. We hold three rounds of 

20 hearings. Parties intervene. Witnesses testify. 

21 Based upon that record, we approve a plan that 

22 will help ensure safe, reliable, and affordable 

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1 power.

2 EPA's proposed rule overrides the 

3 commission's authority to determine the cost4 effective energy mix for Georgia, including the 

5 amount of renewable energy deployment and energy 

6 efficiency improvement. Yet, renewable energy 

7 and demand-side's energy efficiencies are key 

8 components of our resource-planning process.

9 And the PSC has already taken significant 

10 steps to diversify the portfolio of resources 

11 that serves Georgia's citizens. Georgia has been 

12 nationally recognized for our expansion of solar 

13 energy in this state. Our solar programs 

14 represent the largest voluntary expansion of the 

15 solar resources in the United States.

16 We have added 250 megawatts of wind to 

17 our renewable portfolio. Our renewable energy 

18 expansion has been undertaken in a manner that 

19 limits upward pressure on customers' rates, while 

20 ensuring Georgia is a leader in cost-effective 

21 renewable development.

22 We have also advanced demand side's 

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1 energy efficiency. We currently have a DSM 

2 working group comprised of diverse stakeholders 

3 that evaluates and recommends cost-effective 

4 energy efficiency measures. The recommendations 

5 from that working group feed directly into our 

6 resource-planning process.

7 It is in that forum that the PSC can make 

8 an informed decision regarding the amount of 

9 cost-effective energy efficiency that can be 

10 achieved. As a result of that process, Georgia 

11 Power will spend almost $500 million on demand12 side energy efficiency programs over the next 10 

13 years.

14 Finally, we are also one of the few 

15 states that will bring online new state-of-the16 art nuclear generation in the near future. These 

17 successes in renewables, energy efficiency, and 

18 nuclear development have all been accomplished 

19 through a constructive, deliberative regulatory 

20 process in Georgia.

21 In contrast, the EPA's rule development 

22 process lacks the rigor and voracity of our 

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1 resource planning process. The proposed rule 

2 would effectively require a redesign of the 

3 state's energy resource plans, essentially 

4 dictating which generation resource will be used, 

5 without regard to cost.

6 For example, the proposal assumes that 

7 Georgia could increase renewable energy by 273 

8 percent for 2012 levels and demand-side energy 

9 efficiency to 9.83 percent by 2030 in order to 

10 meet the EPA's carbon reduction goal.

11 The proposal also assumes that existing 

12 generation units will be retired. In Georgia, we 

13 have already certified the retirement of over 

14 3,000 megawatts of coal resources, largely in 

15 response to environmental requirements. The 

16 proposal assumes that Georgia will retire another 

17 3,900 megawatts by 2025. Retiring these 

18 additional megawatts will strand the significant 

19 investment Georgia has already made in the 

20 existing coal fleet, billions of dollars to 

21 reduce our environment footprint.

22 Georgia is entitled to reap the benefits 

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1 of the investments they have made in the form of 

2 cost-effective electric power from the plants.

3 I ask you to please reconsider this rule.

4 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Eaton.

5 Are there any questions from the panel?

6 MS. BANISTER: I have one.

7 MR. THOMPSON: Sure.

8 MS. BANISTER: So, the integrated 

9 resource plan, you said it's done every three 

10 years, I think?

11 MR. EATON: Yes. 

12 MS. BANISTER: When was the last time it 

13 was done?

14 MR. EATON: Last year.

15 MS. BANISTER: Last year? Okay. Thank 

16 you.

17 MR. THOMPSON: Additional questions?

18 [No audible response.]

19 MR. THOMPSON: Gentleman, thank you both 

20 for your testimony.

21 MR. McDONALD: Thank you.

22 MR. EATON: Thank you.

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1 MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like to 

2 ask, or invite Jim Doyle and Jennette Gayer, G-a3 y-e-r, up for your testimony.

4 [Pause.]

5 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning.

6 And let me, just before they begin their 

7 testimony, ask Mary Love and Kenneth Smith to 

8 queue up. Excellent. All right. Very good.

9 Again, good morning.

10 Starting with you, Mr. Doyle, could you 

11 spell your name for the court reporter and then 

12 begin your testimony?

13 MR. DOYLE: Sure. Thank you. Jim, J-i14 m, Doyle, D-o-y-l-e.

15 I'm President of Business Forward, a 

16 trade association that works with tens of 

17 thousands of business leaders across the country. 

18 I recently co-authored a study examining how the 

19 proposed carbon standards we are discussing here 

20 today will affect electricity costs for 

21 manufacturers.

22 Critics argue the new EPA standards will 

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1 cause American manufacturers to shut down their 

2 U.S. factories. But when you look at what 

3 manufacturers actually spend on electricity and 

4 how that spending relates to the rest of their 

5 budgets, you'll find the projected rate increases 

6 will have a small impact on manufacturers' bottom 

7 lines.

8 Electricity represents less than 1 

9 percent of a manufacturer's total cost, on 

10 average. The EPA projects rates could rise about 

11 6 percent by 2020. That means the average 

12 industry's total cost would rise less than 0.06 

13 percent. In other words, a part that costs the 

14 manufacturer $100 to produce would increase by 6 

15 cents.

16 On the other hand, supply chains 

17 represent 60 percent of the manufacturer's total 

18 cost. That's 60 times more than electricity. 

19 Over the past four years, American factories have 

20 been disrupted by typhoons in Thailand, 

21 hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, droughts in 

22 Texas, tornadoes in Kentucky, falling water 

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1 levels across the Great Lakes, and flooding in 

2 the Northeast.

3 This is part of a wave of severe weather 

4 that, from 2011 to 2013, cost our economy more 

5 than $200 billion. Cargo ships crossing the 

6 Great Lakes are carrying less cargo to avoid 

7 running aground. Courts are preparing for more 

8 hurricanes. Highways and bridges are subject to 

9 more disruptions. And cargo trains detoured 

10 during last winter's storms took months to arrive 

11 at their factories.

12 Together, these events are shutting down 

13 or slowing down plants for hours, days, and 

14 sometimes weeks at a time. This is actually 

15 quite new. Manufacturing plants across all 

16 industries have experienced four unexpected 

17 disruptions each year, on average. These have a 

18 cost of 20 hours of total downtime per year. 

19 These are caused by equipment failures, power 

20 outages, absence of key personnel, and severe 

21 weather.

22 With the frequency and intensity of 

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1 severe weather increasing, so are production 

2 delays and disruptions. An auto plant in Indiana 

3 that rarely lost production to severe weather 

4 lost four days last winter alone. Leading 

5 employers here in Atlanta have begun reporting 

6 these risks to their stockholders. Home Depot, 

7 Delta, Southern Company have each explained how 

8 severe weather is affecting their bottom lines.

9 But to appreciate what climate change 

10 could do to American manufacturers, it helps to 

11 point out that supply chains are growing bigger, 

12 more specialized, and more global, and incredibly 

13 fast. The very characteristics that make them 

14 more efficient make them more interdependent. 

15 And it's the interdependence that makes severe 

16 weather such a big deal.

17 Just-in-time inventory practices reduce 

18 factory space needs by about 80 percent and can 

19 reduce its labor costs by as much as half. But 

20 just-in-time means that a factory has only 

21 several hours of parts on site at any one time. 

22 So if their trucks are delayed just a few hours, 

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1 that plant shuts down. If it's delayed half-a2 day or a day, that plant shuts down entirely.

3 Having a global supply chain means your 

4 plant here in Atlanta can be affected by one of 

5 your suppliers in Thailand or when the port in 

6 Norfolk, Virginia, is slowed down by East Coast 

7 hurricanes.

8 Now, we've been talking about Atlanta, 

9 but let's focus on the Southeast. The Southeast 

10 is host to six auto assembly plants across South 

11 Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi. 

12 Those assembly plants support tens of thousands 

13 of jobs and several hundred auto suppliers. It's 

14 the biggest manufacturing sector in the United 

15 States. Assembly plants are massive, and each 

16 one produces about 300,000 cars a year.

17 Each hour of weather-related shutdowns at 

18 an auto assembly plant costs $1.25 million or 

19 more of lost production. One hour, $1.25 

20 million. By comparison, the cost of higher 

21 electricity rates is modest. An auto assembly 

22 plant that spends $60 on electricity for each car 

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1 it assembles and produces 300 vehicles each year, 

2 and costs rise 6 percent, well, that total 

3 increase for a total year costs the plant less 

4 than losing one hour of production to severe 

5 weather.

6 In conclusion, a careful study of 

7 business data shows that severe weather is far 

8 more expensive to American manufacturers than the 

9 cost of the EPA standards intended to address it.

10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Doyle.

11 Mrs. Gayer, am I pronouncing your name 

12 correctly?

13 MS. GAYER: You are.

14 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. All right.

15 MS. GAYER: Thank you. Yeah.

16 MR. THOMPSON: Please pronounce and spell 

17 for the court reporter.

18 MS. GAYER: Sure. So it's Jennette, J-e19 n-n-e-t-t-e, Gayer, G-a-y-e-r.

20 And I'm the Director of Environment 

21 Georgia, which is a citizen-funded nonprofit that 

22 works in Georgia to protect our air and our water 

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1 and our green spaces. And I want to thank ya'll 

2 very much for holding this hearing today, 

3 proposing this rule.

4 [A telephone ring tone was heard.]

5 MS. GAYER: I was going to say.

6 [Laughter.]

7 MS. GAYER: Okay. And especially for 

8 rolling for the punches and finding us a new home 

9 in the Omni, which is very nice.

10 As an Atlantan -- this is a sidebar, I 

11 guess -- I'm very lucky. I have gotten to attend 

12 several listening sessions in the past. It seems 

13 to go with the territory when you work with and 

14 near the Sam Nunn Center.

15 But what I wanted to say or start with 

16 this morning is this is the first listening 

17 session that I've attended that has kicked off 

18 with a Clean Power Plan prayer breakfast, with 40 

19 faith leaders, that has brought busloads of 

20 people from Kentucky, from Alabama, from 

21 Tennessee, busloads of kids from around Georgia 

22 to come and watch what is happening here today, 

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1 which I think really speaks to the importance of 

2 this issue for this generation and for future 

3 generations.

4 And I'll also say that, having sat 

5 through multiple listening sessions, this also 

6 means that I've heard several rounds of utility 

7 talking points, promising that my electric bills 

8 will go up, that the reliability of our electric 

9 system will go down, that the sky will fall.

10 So I think the reality is global warming 

11 is not a problem that Georgia can tackle on its 

12 own. But it is certainly something that we will 

13 benefit if we successfully tackle. So we have, 

14 just as one example, a beautiful coastline. It's 

15 also a very valuable coastline. So tourism 

16 experts estimate our coast is worth $1.5 billion.

17 One of our board members is a city 

18 council member on Tybee Island, Paul Wolf. And 

19 he wanted me to send tidings today and let you 

20 know that not only does he support this plan, but 

21 has his own plan on Tybee, that they're spending 

22 millions of dollars currently working to figure 

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1 out, how can the City of Tybee survive rising sea 

2 levels, increased storms? So this is something 

3 that he's feeling in his pocketbook as well and 

4 appreciates ya'll dealing with it.

5 Environment Georgia Research and Policy 

6 Center recently wrote a report called "America's 

7 Dirtiest Power Plants," and it shows that 

8 America's power plants really are the single 

9 largest source of carbon pollution and that a 

10 handful of the dirtiest plants make up a huge 

11 portion of our emissions.

12 For, for example, in the U.S., 50 of the 

13 dirtiest plants emit more carbon pollution than 

14 all but six other entire countries. And the 

15 dirtiest power plant of them all, as you well 

16 know, is Plant Scherer, near Macon, Georgia. If 

17 we want a cleaner, safer future for our kids, we 

18 cannot afford to ignore power plants' outsized 

19 contribution to global warming. For Georgia, 

20 tackling the problem truly does mean cleaning up 

21 the dirtiest power plants.

22 We know that there's a better way than 

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1 dirtier power plants, and I do want -- you 

2 recently heard from Commissioner McDonald. And 

3 he does deserve credit for making Georgia a real 

4 leader in solar. He has really driven, at the 

5 Public Service Commission, a lot of great solar 

6 initiatives. So we are proving here in the state 

7 that there are alternatives. And those 

8 alternatives work, and they create jobs.

9 Energy efficiency is a second thing that 

10 I think we could do even more in Georgia. 

11 Certainly, you know, I would say we should make 

12 that -- you guys talk about three legs of the 

13 stool. And I would say we should be doing 

14 anything that we can in Georgia to make sure that 

15 -- I don't want a lopsided stool, but to make 

16 sure that energy efficiency is a big part, I 

17 guess, of holding up our stool.

18 So, on behalf of Environment Georgia, on 

19 behalf of our thousands of citizen members, I 

20 urge EPA to develop a strong rule limiting carbon 

21 pollution from existing plants. We need to 

22 protect our children and our future generations 

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1 from the worst impacts of global warming.

2 Georgia is the eighth-biggest emitter of 

3 carbon pollution from power plants, so we are a 

4 critical place to start. And I appreciate ya'll 

5 being here today. Thank you.

6 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

7 Are there any questions for Ms. Gayer? 

8 Daryl? 

9 [No audible response.]

10 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, respectfully, 

11 Mrs. Gayer and Mr. Doyle, thank you for your 

12 testimony.

13 [Pause.]

14 MR. THOMPSON: At this time, again, I'd 

15 like to invite Mary Love and Kenneth Smith to 

16 please come forward.

17 [Pause.]

18 MR. THOMPSON: And while they're making 

19 the transition, I'd also like to invite folks to 

20 take this opportunity to silence their cell 

21 phones. Thank you.

22 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning.

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1 MR. SMITH: Good morning.

2 MS. LOVE: Good morning.

3 MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, Mrs. 

4 Love, would you state and spell your name for the 

5 court reporter and then begin your testimony, 

6 please?

7 MS. LOVE: Certainly. My name is Mary 

8 Love, M-a-r-y L-o-v-e. And I'm from Kentucky. 

9 Good morning.

10 (Chorus of "Good morning.")

11 MS. LOVE: I'm a Kentuckian and a native 

12 Appalachian with roots in the region going back 

13 approximately 200 years. I live in Oldham 

14 County, Kentucky, which is just upriver and 

15 downwind from Louisville.

16 Louisville Gas and Electric Company has 

17 two coal-fired power plants in Southwest 

18 Louisville on the Ohio River, and Duke Energy has 

19 one pre-Clean Air Act generation station just 

20 west of the city, in Indiana, on the other side 

21 of the river.

22 Louisville is also the intersection of 

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1 three major interstates -- 64, 65, and 71 -- and 

2 the only Ohio River crossing for some 50 miles in 

3 either direction.

4 The prevailing winds in Louisville are 

5 from the southwest, and the power plants and 

6 chemical plants are all located southwest of 

7 town. Our small-particulates pollution levels 

8 are consistently high, both from vehicle 

9 emissions and from power plant emissions. One 

10 day about two months ago, the newspapers reported 

11 that Louisville was listed as the city with the 

12 worst air pollution in the nation on that day.

13 We're also in a basin of the Ohio River, 

14 so whatever pollution is created in Louisville 

15 mostly stays there. We're the top in the -- the 

16 top five -- I think we're number five in the 

17 nation for asthma rates in the whole country.

18 Our state, our nation, and our world 

19 desperately need your help to reduce our carbon 

20 emissions and to save us from the worst effects 

21 of climate change. I'm involved with grass roots 

22 organizations in Kentucky and Appalachia. You 

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1 see I'm a member of Kentuckians for the 

2 Commonwealth. And we are working to protect our 

3 air, water, our land, and particularly the health 

4 of our people.

5 We're also working for a just economic 

6 transition from our region as we move away from 

7 the coal mono-economy, particularly in eastern 

8 Kentucky.

9 First I would like to thank you for 

10 promulgating this rule. It will be a great help 

11 for the area in which I live, as well as for the 

12 entire state. The coal industry in Kentucky has 

13 strong influence over the state legislature and 

14 our enforcement agencies. We need national help 

15 to enforce the laws, to force Kentucky to do what 

16 we should do to protect our land and our people.

17 Your work is extremely important in 

18 preserving the health and the economy of our 

19 region. Our officials constantly and 

20 consistently fight your efforts at every turn, 

21 including our representatives, most of them 

22 except for one, and our two Senators.

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1 Please know that you do have friends in 

2 the state and the region who've got your back and 

3 who work to stop all efforts to keep you from 

4 doing your job.

5 Thank you for listening to our governor 

6 and energy candidate secretary and taking their 

7 suggestions to heart. What you've proposed for 

8 Kentucky is very doable. Of course, we would 

9 prefer more strict requirements for Kentucky, but 

10 I'll leave those comments for other speakers.

11 Studies by several independent groups in 

12 Kentucky have indicated that these regulations 

13 will open new opportunities for jobs for laid-off 

14 coal miners and others connected to our declining 

15 coal industry. The energy efficiency and 

16 renewable energy requirements hold great promise 

17 for lowering utility bills in a state that wastes 

18 more electricity than almost any other state in 

19 the nation.

20 In conclusion, Kentucky needs these 

21 regulations, and we thank you for putting them 

22 forth and for passing them.

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1 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 

2 testimony, Mrs. Love.

3 Mr. Smith, please state your name and 

4 spell it for the court reporter, and begin 

5 testimony.

6 MR. SMITH: Yes. My name is Kenneth 

7 Smith, last name S-m-i-t-h. I'm Policy Director 

8 for the Arkansas Advanced Energy Association. I 

9 live in Fayetteville, Arkansas, home of the 

10 University of Arkansas Razorbacks.

11 The Arkansas Advanced Energy Association, 

12 representing over 80 Arkansas companies and 

13 institutions, supports the proposed 111(d) Rule, 

14 or Clean Power Plan. AEA appreciates the rule's 

15 flexibility and its approach for achieving carbon 

16 emission reductions on a state basis.

17 The rule's proposed methodology for 

18 carbon reduction, the best system for emission 

19 reduction, offers a set of cost-effective 

20 advanced energy technologies for reducing carbon 

21 emissions through heat-rate improvement, energy 

22 conservation, and greater use of natural gas and 

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1 renewable energy.

2 EPA's proposed plan, however, 

3 underestimates the potential contribution of 

4 renewable energy and energy-efficiencies 

5 technologies to emissions reduction to economic 

6 development and jobs. The proposed plan fails to 

7 account for the continuous improvement in these 

8 technologies that will enable greater emission 

9 reductions over time, and discourages companies 

10 from taking early action with advanced energy 

11 technologies.

12 Now, there are 10 issues that we've 

13 raised in our paper that we will be submitting to 

14 EPA, and I'll just run through these briefly.

15 First off is that we believe the emission 

16 reduction target for Arkansas is spot on, due to 

17 the state's electric utilities over the last 10 

18 years, in full knowledge of pending greenhouse 

19 gas reductions, have continued to build and 

20 operate new power plants, coal plants. So the 

21 first issue here is that we believe option one,

22 carbon reductions over a 10-year horizon, is 

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1 preferable over option two, which is a lower 

2 carbon target achieved in half the time.

3 Second, each state's carbon reduction 

4 target reflects the emissions level that the EPA 

5 has determined to be reasonable. It appears to 

6 AAEA that the best system for emission reduction 

7 will work for Arkansas, with the initial and 

8 highest carbon emission reductions coming from 

9 increased deployment of natural gas through CCGT, 

10 combined cycle gas turbines, and a reduction of 

11 30 percent, or 68 percent of the target from the 

12 state.

13 The Advanced Energy Association believes 

14 that if EPA raised its projections for building 

15 blocks three and four, which are the renewable 

16 energy and energy efficiency blocks, that we 

17 would see a higher carbon emissions reduction 

18 level and create unprecedented economic 

19 development for the state and job growth through 

20 increased energy efficiency to annual savings of 

21 1.5 percent, increasing renewable energy up to 15 

22 percent of the state's generation, and full 

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1 deployment of combined heat-power systems.

2 Combined heat-power would lead to more 

3 than $2 billion in investments in our state if we 

4 fully deployed it. Right now, in energy 

5 efficiency, since 2007 or so -- 2009, actually, 

6 we have found that more than 700 companies are 

7 operating in Arkansas that are offering energy8 saving measures. This is a brand-new industry 

9 for the state due to the utility energy 

10 efficiency programs.

11 We believe, though, that emission 

12 reduction technologies installed between now and 

13 2020 should be credited for 111(d) state planning 

14 compliance, and that's our fourth recommendation.

15 Our fifth recommendation is that we fully 

16 support integrated resource planning as a tool 

17 for compliance, and these should be authorized 

18 and included in state reduction plans. We 

19 believe that a multi-state approach makes sense, 

20 as well, working on such as the RGGI experience 

21 in New England, or other regional approaches that 

22 are taking place or could take place through 

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1 regional transmission organizations.

2 We believe that the EPA should authorize 

3 the use of current renewable energy credit4 tracking systems that have been well in place and 

5 well served by the renewable energy industry.

6 We'd like to see a comparison of rate7 based and mass-based carbon reduction numbers and 

8 see how those stack up and which one would be 

9 better for a state to comply with. We would like 

10 to see EPA develop an accounting framework that 

11 applies in each state for making projections. 

12 And as the states develop compliance plans, it 

13 would be very helpful if EPA had in place a model 

14 plant that states could follow to better ensure 

15 compliance when the rule is actually turned in, 

16 or the plan is turned, in to the state.

17 And finally, Arkansas Advanced Energy 

18 Association expresses its appreciation to EPA, 

19 including its consultants and full team who 

20 drafted the plan. The way you've engaged states 

21 and stakeholders, incorporating their comments, 

22 incorporating advanced energy-type technologies, 

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1 is exemplary and should become a model for all 

2 federal regulatory actions.

3 Thank you.

4 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Smith.

5 Do either of you have questions for Mrs. 

6 Love or Mr. Smith? Would you, please, first?

7 MS. BANISTER: Just one for Mr. Smith 

8 with regard to your recommendation number four.

9 MR. THOMPSON: That's my question.

10 MS. BANISTER: Is that your question?

11 MR. THOMPSON: That's my question.

12 MS. BANISTER: Yeah. Could you just talk 

13 a little, clarify that just a little bit more?

14 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

15 MR. SMITH: Yeah. We're seeing utilities 

16 such as in Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, that 

17 are working very hard to start up new energy18 efficiency programs, making significant 

19 investments on behalf of ratepayers.

20 Arkansas has a full set of energy21 efficiency programs, hitting renewable energy 

22 targets at 0.75 percent each year, up to 1 

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1 percent each year. So we're saving a lot of 

2 carbon, reducing a lot of carbon right now.

3 We think that these technologies, plus 

4 renewable energy technologies that are to be 

5 deployed over the next six years as this plan --

6 because the actual start date on the plan is 2020 

7 -- that we should find some way of giving credit 

8 to these programs that are well in place.

9 It's an incentive. It's encouragement. 

10 And that's what the states need at this point. 

11 So that's the key issue I'm trying to make here.

12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

13 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you.

14 MR. THOMPSON: Thanks, Beverly, for 

15 asking that question.

16 MS. BANISTER: Um-hm.

17 MR. SMITH: Thank you very much.

18 MR. THOMPSON: Yes. Thank you, 

19 respectfully, Mrs. Love and Mr. Smith. Thank you 

20 again for your testimony.

21 At this time I'd like to invite Laura 

22 Montgomery and Lillian Mood to please come 

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1 forward.

2 [Pause.]

3 MR. THOMPSON: And following Mrs. 

4 Montgomery and Mrs. Mood, the Reverend Woody 

5 Bartlett and Paula Swint will be up next. All 

6 right.

7 [Pause.]

8 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, ladies.

9 [Chorus of "Good morning."]

10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for coming.

11 Okay. Starting with you, Mrs. 

12 Montgomery, could you state and spell your name 

13 for the court reporter and begin your testimony?

14 MS. MONTGOMERY: My name is Laura 

15 Montgomery. I live at 6385 East Deer Hollow Way 

16 in Norcross, Georgia. I'm here to speak up for 

17 stronger EPA rules to limit carbon pollution from 

18 power plants and fight climate change.

19 Power plants are the largest source of 

20 carbon emissions in the U.S. today, and these 

21 standards are critically important in protecting 

22 public health and in reducing the effects of 

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1 global warming. The new EPA rules will 

2 contribute to a much-needed transition to a 

3 cleaner electricity system.

4 I know what it feels like not to be able 

5 to breathe. I have asthma. In the summer 

6 months, the air quality is the worst. In June 

7 and July, breathing is the most difficult. Every 

8 time the air quality alerts go into orange or 

9 red, I get very congested and have an asthmatic 

10 cough. I get a headache.

11 The unhealthiest days for asthma and 

12 other lung diseases are recorded by EPA in the 

13 Atlanta area by county, for Fulton, Gwinnett, 

14 Cobb, and DeKalb. I don't even need to see the 

15 recorded air quality; I can tell by how I feel.

16 Particulate matter, or particle 

17 pollution, especially fine particles, can get 

18 deep into the lungs and cause serious health 

19 problems. Ground-level ozone is also a serious 

20 health pollutant. Breathing ozone can trigger a 

21 variety of health problems, including chest pain, 

22 coughing, throat irritation, and congestion. It 

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1 can worsen bronchitis, emphysema, and asthma. 

2 Ground-level ozone also can reduce lung function 

3 and inflame the linings of the lungs. Repeated 

4 exposure may permanently scar lung tissue.

5 Ozone is experienced as a burning of 

6 sensitive tissues. Even relatively low levels of 

7 ozone can cause health effects. People with lung 

8 disease, children, older adults, and people who 

9 are active outdoors may be particularly sensitive 

10 to ozone.

11 I urge you to work quickly to strengthen 

12 and finalize strong standards for existing power 

13 plants, and finalize standards for both new and 

14 existing power plants by June 2015.

15 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. 

16 Montgomery.

17 We'll come back for questions. We'll 

18 come back.

19 Mrs. Mood, please?

20 MS. MOOD: My name is Lill Mood, L-i-l-l 

21 M-o-o-d, and I represent the Alliance of Nurses 

22 for Health Environments.

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1 I'm a retired public health nurse, and I 

2 spent nearly 10 years of my 32-year career in 

3 public health, working in environmental

4 protection programs as a liaison between the 

5 South Carolina Department of Health and 

6 Environment Control and citizens who are 

7 concerned about environmental hazards and their 

8 effect on the health of children, families, and 

9 communities.

10 I had the privilege of chairing the 

11 Institute of Medicine Study of Nursing, Health, 

12 and Environment, which was published in 1998, and 

13 the study reaffirmed that the nursing profession 

14 is rooted in the understanding that our 

15 environment is a primary determinant of health.

16 Nurses have a heritage of facilitating 

17 good health and recovery from illness by paying 

18 attention to and modifying environmental 

19 conditions. The IOM study mapped a path forward 

20 for nurses to make a difference by addressing 

21 environmental risks as an integral part of 

22 practice, education, research, and advocacy.

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1 I'm pleased today to speak on behalf of 

2 the Alliance of Nurses for Healthy Environments, 

3 a network of individual nurses and nursing 

4 organizations bonded in efforts to prevent and 

5 alleviate environmental hazards and conditions 

6 that contribute to ill health and the loss of 

7 quality of life.

8 From our focus on individual patient 

9 health, we nurses have broadened our involvement 

10 to larger issues that impact the health of 

11 populations and communities.

12 There's no question of the scientific 

13 evidence that climate change is affecting all 

14 dimensions of human life, including health. From 

15 changing patterns of infection and allergies to 

16 new and evolving pathogens and toxic exposures, 

17 from devastating storms, floods, and droughts to 

18 loss of homes and jobs, people are reaping the 

19 consequences of carbon pollution and its 

20 widespread effect.

21 We witness the increased asthma from 

22 carbon emissions and the health threats of 

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1 pollution of water from coal mining and coal2 fired power plants. We are active in searching 

3 out the specifics of chemical exposures from 

4 fracking to recover natural gas as a solution to 

5 energy needs. We are drawn to sustainable energy 

6 sources without the downside of pollution like 

7 solar and wind energy.

8 ANHE has put its effort into promoting 

9 individual and workplace practices that reduce 

10 our carbon footprint -- clean energy, recycling, 

11 public transportation, walking and biking, 

12 growing and eating locally grown foods -- the 

13 multiple strategies that, together, add up to 

14 more than their simple sum, that have a 

15 multiplier effect on health.

16 Nursing is the largest health profession 

17 in number, and we are present in more places of 

18 contact with people than any other group of 

19 health professionals. Even those of us who are 

20 officially retired invest our time in disaster 

21 relief efforts, community improvement projects, 

22 free clinics, civic organizations, and advocacy 

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1 initiatives.

2 We also enjoy the amazing status of being 

3 the most trusted profession, as determined over 

4 and over in an annual Gallup poll.

5 We are using our capacity to join with 

6 other health professionals and environmental 

7 colleagues, our elected officials, and our 

8 community neighbors to bend the arc of progress 

9 in reducing carbon pollution and alleviating the 

10 existing effects of climate change and preventing 

11 further damage to our precious home, the earth.

12 We stand firmly in support of the EPA 

13 Clean Power Plan. We ask that you listen to and 

14 help us find additional ways for the public to 

15 hear and heed our trusted voices as we work 

16 together on climate change. We ask EPA to stand 

17 firm and stand tall with us in the commitment to 

18 make this earth a safe place to live, work, and 

19 play. 

20 Thank you.

21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you.

22 Are there any questions for Mrs. 

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1 Montgomery or Mrs. Mood?

2 [No audible response.] 

3 MR. THOMPSON: Again, ladies, thank you 

4 very much for your testimony today. We 

5 appreciate it.

6 [Pause.]

7 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. The Reverend Woody 

8 Bartlett and Paula Swint, please come forward.

9 [Pause.] 

10 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning.

11 [Chorus of "Good morning."]

12 MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, 

13 Reverend Bartlett, could you state and spell your 

14 name for the court reporter and then, please, 

15 begin your testimony?

16 REV. BARTLETT: Okay. I'm the Reverend 

17 Woody Bartlett, W-o-o-d-y, Bartlett, B-a-r-t-l-e18 t-t.

19 I'm a retired Episcopal clergyman. My 

20 wife and I cofounded Georgia Interfaith Power and 

21 Light some 11 years ago. It is now a $200,000-a22 year private nonprofit that has over 500 partner 

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1 congregations across the State of Georgia. We 

2 cover many different environmental issues, but we 

3 are most focused on the harmful byproducts of the 

4 ways we generate and use electrical power --

5 namely, carbon emissions.

6 This morning I want to tell you my story 

7 and why I got involved. I'm doing this in the 

8 hope that it will add one more voice to the 

9 chorus that is demanding that we do all in our 

10 power to reduce our carbon emissions.

11 It started with me in the spring of 1988, 

12 over 25 years ago. I was in San Diego for a 

13 conference on poverty. By mistake, I got there a 

14 day early. I had a free day in San Diego. So, 

15 what do you do? You go to the zoo.

16 I'd never been to the San Diego Zoo. 

17 It's a beautiful place with many exotic creatures 

18 exhibited in their natural habitats. There are 

19 just a few cages and bars. Mostly, it is animals 

20 with humans looking at them like so many 

21 honeybees around the first blossoms of spring.

22 As I wandered along the pathways, my 

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1 curiosity was piqued by a red triangle with a 

2 white E in it at the top right corner of many of

3 the exhibit markers. Looking at my guidebook, I 

4 was startled to see that it meant that that 

5 species was endangered.

6 Then I noticed the explanation off to the 

7 side of each of those displays that told how and 

8 why that particular species was so vulnerable. 

9 Almost all mentioned the presence of humans as a 

10 prime cause. The red triangles then took on a 

11 blood-red hue.

12 Finishing my tour of the zoo in the early 

13 afternoon, I went across the park to the Natural 

14 History Museum, and -- wouldn't you know it? --

15 it featured a special exhibit on extinction. I 

16 couldn't stay out of it. And it told similar 

17 stories to those told in the zoo. And it claimed 

18 that 99 percent of the extinctions were caused by 

19 the direct or indirect presence of humanity.

20 Finally, at the end of the exhibit, I was 

21 faced with one final chart. It read, rates of 

22 extinction: Before man, one species every 1,000 

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1 years. During the age of the dinosaurs at the 

2 great collapse, 100 species per year. At the 

3 present time -- that is, in 1988 -- 10 times that 

4 rate. That is, 1,000 species a year. And at the 

5 going rate of increase, by the year 2000 --

6 that's 14 years ago -- several species an hour, 

7 or some 20,000 per year.

8 The last line on the chart was the real 

9 shocker. It said, "When humanity?" I was 

10 stunned. We are in a great extinction event that 

11 is harsher than any that has come before, way 

12 harsher than the extinction that wiped out the 

13 mighty dinosaurs off the face of the earth. I 

14 didn't know that, at that time, up to 90 percent 

15 of the existing species had disappeared.

16 If the collapse had happened in their 

17 time, it could also happen in our time. And it 

18 could take out humanity, too. These are my 

19 children, my grandchildren, my people, my flock. 

20 My eyes misted up.

21 When I returned to Atlanta, I checked out 

22 the claims at the zoo. There was fairly solid 

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1 agreement. There are many different opinions 

2 about the mechanisms for the great collapse. But 

3 high on every list was the release of carbon long 

4 stored under the earth in coal and oil, released 

5 back into the atmosphere in the form of so-called 

6 greenhouse gases. And most of those are 

7 generated as we power our lives, condition our 

8 air, transport ourselves, grow our food, power 

9 our industry.

10 So at what cost do we live? Can we 

11 restrain the release of these greenhouse gases in 

12 some meaningful way? I come begging that the 

13 proposed carbon pollution standards be adopted. 

14 And I make this plea in the name of my people.

15 Thank you.

16 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Reverend 

17 Bartlett. Thank you for your testimony.

18 Mrs. Swint, please.

19 MS. SWINT: Hi. I'm Paula Swint, P-a-u20 l-a S-w-i-n-t.

21 I want to say good morning and thank you 

22 for holding a hearing in the Southeast. The vast 

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1 number of power plants in the Southeast are a 

2 major source of carbon pollution. Many of these 

3 plants are in rural areas, where local residents 

4 experience a greater effect from the harmful 

5 influence.

6 I want to thank you on behalf of regular 

7 people who feel that we don't have a voice, that 

8 no one cares about those of us who live in these 

9 rural areas. So I appreciate the opportunity 

10 today to speak to you about my family.

11 I'm a regular person. I'm not a 

12 corporation. I'm not a business. I'm not a 

13 scientist. I'm not even an activist. But I am a 

14 mother, wife, retired educator, and I've lived in 

15 rural Georgia almost all my life.

16 My husband and I have spent the last 40 

17 years both pursuing and living the American 

18 dream. In 1977, we moved to land that has been 

19 in my husband's family for almost 100 years. We 

20 built a home and became busy with our jobs, our

21 children, our families, our lives. We live down 

22 a dirt road surrounded by trees, good neighbors, 

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1 and precious memories.

2 My husband's father and grandfather set 

3 an example of stewardship, which he continues to 

4 follow, leaving the land a little better for the 

5 next generation. He has worked hard restoring 

6 his father's home place -- the old cabin, the 

7 fruit orchards, the garden plots, and the native 

8 woodlands.

9 For many years, we've depended on our 

10 small gardens to provide fresh fruit and 

11 vegetables for our family and for our neighbors. 

12 Growing these fresh foods continues to be a 

13 source of pride and a symbol of good health. 

14 Besides gardening, my husband and I love 

15 just being outside. We enjoy hiking through our 

16 native woodlands right behind our home, and we

17 walk as much as possible. We're retired now and 

18 able to be active outside almost every day. 

19 Living in the country is an important part of our 

20 healthy lifestyle.

21 We never thought that our small community 

22 would experience poor air quality, yet in 2008, 

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1 our local paper carried this statement: "For the 

2 past three years, Washington County has exceeded 

3 federal clean air standards pertaining to fine 

4 particulate matter" -- 2008. Our local air 

5 quality continues to be a concern.

6 Right now, my family is healthy, but 

7 several years ago, my husband had a rare form of 

8 pneumonia, which rapidly advanced, restricting 

9 his respiratory system in just a few hours. He 

10 went from being healthy and strong to lying in a 

11 specially equipped isolation room at the 

12 University Hospital in Augusta, over an hour from 

13 where we lived.

14 After several months of treatment, he 

15 fully recovered and was able to return to work. 

16 But since his experience, we better understand 

17 how quickly and how severely the lack of oxygen 

18 can affect a person's health, even a healthy 

19 person's health.

20 On certain days in the summer now, we can 

21 tell that it's harder to breathe than on other 

22 days. But we do not have asthma or respiratory 

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1 problems. But some of our neighbors and their 

2 grandchildren do. And I'm concerned that the 

3 higher levels of air pollution will increase the 

4 frequency of their breathing problems.

5 I have very real concerns that the poor 

6 air quality can have ill effects on our health as 

7 we age. If power plants continue to emit unsafe 

8 levels of pollution in such large quantities, it 

9 will increase the exposure to those of us who 

10 live in rural Georgia where the air quality is 

11 already questionable. If we can't be sure that 

12 the air we breathe is safe, we may need to 

13 drastically scale down the amount of time we 

14 spend outside.

15 I also wonder what the cumulative effect 

16 will be on our fruit and vegetable crops that 

17 we've depended on for health. I cannot imagine 

18 giving up the things we love because of poor air 

19 quality. We want to pass our family heritage of 

20 stewardship and good health on to our children. 

21 We hate to think that the land which my husband, 

22 his father, and grandfather have cared for and 

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1 protected for nearly 100 years could be 

2 undermined by greed, deregulation, or apathy. 

3 We really need your help. We depend on 

4 your agency to consider the human side of this 

5 important decision. This is a moral issue with 

6 dangerous consequences.

7 Thank you for the opportunity to express 

8 my concerns. Please continue to address ways 

9 that we can improve our air quality so everyone 

10 can experience and appreciate the beauty and 

11 benefits of walking outside.

12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Swint.

13 Before you leave, Reverend Bartlett and 

14 Mrs. Swint, let me just ask here, are there any 

15 questions?

16 [No audible response.] 

17 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, again, thank 

18 you both for your testimony. Thank you very 

19 much.

20 [Pause.] 

21 MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like to 

22 ask Ita Hardesty Mason and Bobby Green to please 

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1 come forward.

2 [Pause.] 

3 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. Good 

4 morning to both of you.

5 [Chorus of "Good morning."]

6 MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, Mr. 

7 Mason, could you state your name --

8 MR. GREEN: Green.

9 MR. THOMPSON: I'm sorry?

10 MR. GREEN: Green.

11 MS. MASON: I'm Ita, I-t-a.

12 MR. THOMPSON: Sorry.

13 MS. MASON: That's okay.

14 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Starting with 

15 Mason. Which is Mason?

16 MS. MASON: That would be me.

17 MR. THOMPSON: Starting with Mrs. Mason. 

18 Could you state your name and spell it for the 

19 court reporter?

20 MS. MASON: Yes. It's Ita Hardesty 

21 Mason. That's I-t-a H-a-r-d-e-s-t-y Mason, M-a22 s-o-n.

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1 I was born in 1956. And actually, I'm 

2 going to turn my page to my opening page. Sorry.

3 [Pause.] 

4 MS. MASON: My name is Ita Hardesty 

5 Mason. And thank you for this opportunity to 

6 speak. I have a story to share.

7 In 2012, I was able to visit Alaska. 

8 While there, I went to the Anchorage Museum and 

9 found the Smithsonian collection of the native 

10 people of Alaska. Within this exhibit were video 

11 tables and benches nearby. So I settled by one 

12 of them and watched a Native Alaskan woman speak.

13 She told of her village, isolated along 

14 the coast of Northern Alaska. She shared that 

15 her people often wondered, why have they settled 

16 there? She mentioned that in the last few years 

17 the storms that have hit the coastline come more 

18 frequently and with greater force. She tells 

19 that the warmer temps have caused their terra 

20 firma, which is tundra, to thaw.

21 And with each storm, it hammers their 

22 coastline, and they are losing 10 to 15 feet of 

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1 their land with each storm. They are moving 

2 their villages back away from the coastline. 

3 What was once frozen is now thawing.

4 This Native Alaskan said they now know 

5 why they are there. They are there to sound the 

6 alarm that it is happening, and we must address 

7 it.

8 Let me be clear. Nuclear and natural gas 

9 are not the answer to sustaining our energy 

10 needs. Solar and wind and other options like 

11 tides and geothermal need to be our focus. And 

12 our grid -- the lines that move our energy to one 

13 point to another -- is very wasteful. It is my 

14 understanding that a huge percentage of this 

15 energy along the way from source to home 

16 dissipates.

17 The argument of the added costs should 

18 not be our demise. We must clean up our act as 

19 soon as possible. 

20 I was born in 1956 and became an 

21 environmental activist. And many of us began to 

22 realize our climate was destined to be spoiled. 

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1 Yet it would not be at its worst in my lifetime. 

2 I know now, and others realize, that it is 

3 happening much faster than we thought. My 

4 seaside family and friends worldwide are seeing 

5 tides arrive on their land with each high tide.

6 During Hurricane Sandy, cousins in Long 

7 Beach, Long Island, witnessed the Long Island 

8 Sound and the Atlantic Ocean come within their 

9 family room by five feet.

10 I am grateful our nation and our 

11 lawmakers are finally beginning to address this 

12 carbon footprint. It has a cause-and-effect that 

13 we must address. And the way that we do this 

14 affects everything we use and need, from heating 

15 to cooling. Manufacturing our goods, growing, 

16 transporting, and storing our food has a carbon 

17 footprint.

18 I am glad the EPA has opened this day to 

19 listen. And I have heard there is a 45-year gap 

20 between our pollution and the effect it causes. 

21 We must excel these time frames. Even the time 

22 frames within the proposal of the EPA need to be 

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1 -- you know, 2030? No, let's talk a little 

2 sooner. We must act quickly.

3 The green switch is within our grasp. It 

4 will create jobs and will save the overall health 

5 of our home, this planet earth.

6 I hope all utility providers and 

7 officials that manage our energy needs embrace 

8 this energy switch, for we have wasted enough 

9 time on non-sustainable forms. And if these 

10 communities and our states can't address this 

11 quickly enough, I thank the EPA for stepping 

12 forward and helping us towards this direction.

13 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Mason. 

14 Thank you for your testimony.

15 Mr. Green?

16 MR. GREEN: Good morning, everyone.

17 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning.

18 MR. GREEN: My name is Bobby Green. I am 

19 the Founder and CEO of BioGreenAlgae Enterprises 

20 and CHEC Pro, Incorporated. I am a local 

21 resident here in Atlanta. I actually live on the 

22 other side of these buildings. We live in the 

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1 neighborhood behind the Georgia Dome. Those are 

2 some of the most distressed neighborhoods in the 

3 City of Atlanta.

4 Last year, I got involved in renewable 

5 energy and energy efficiency, because in my 

6 neighborhood, we are a neighborhood, a community 

7 that lives with an annual income of less than 

8 $19,000 a year. And my neighbors are paying 

9 extremely high prices every month for 

10 electricity. When your income is that low and 

11 your monthly electrical bill is $200 or $250, 

12 that's ridiculous.

13 We're talking about people who are living 

14 in houses and apartments no bigger than 900 

15 square feet, and they're paying these extravagant 

16 prices in terms of power. 

17 We spoke with the PSC last year. They 

18 told us Georgia Power would help us regardless. 

19 So I got a number of our neighbors to go out and 

20 make those calls to Georgia Power to come out and 

21 see, why is it we're losing so much energy in 

22 these old homes? Obviously, because these homes 

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1 are so old, they've been since the '40s and '50s. 

2 So they're not up to standards.

3 So we're constantly -- but people -- and 

4 they're saying, "Okay, just go out and buy some 

5 new fridge, go out and buy, you know, new stove 

6 or whatever."

7 Here's the real deal. We can barely make 

8 the rent. How do you expect us to go out and buy 

9 these new stuff that are energy efficient when 

10 they're not -- I mean when we can't? Because 

11 you're talking about a refrigerator for $2,000 or 

12 $3,000 that's going to be energy efficient. We 

13 can't afford that.

14 So, I took it upon myself to say, I have 

15 to do something. Since Georgia Power and 

16 Southern Company isn't going to help, and 

17 obviously the PSC is not going to help, because 

18 I've never seen where the commission speaks 

19 highly of a company like that, where we're 

20 looking at, as far as we're concerned, it's a 

21 monopoly. We're not given any options.

22 When we're talking about bringing 

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1 renewable energy to Georgia so, you know, we can 

2 help stave off some of these prices, help open up

3 jobs for a lot of these people so they can pay 

4 these bills, we're not seeing any help coming 

5 from that department. We just keep hearing that, 

6 "Oh, just give them a call." That doesn't cut 

7 for us.

8 You know, here's how I look at this. 

9 This earth is ours. According to Psalms 115, it 

10 says, "The heavens is the Lord, and earth he has 

11 given to man." So if he's given this to us, it's 

12 our job to be a good steward of this earth. So 

13 in being a good steward of this earth, it is that 

14 we make certain we can exist because the air and 

15 environment is clean and livable. We also have 

16 to understand that we need energy, yes.

17 And there's always going to be a carbon 

18 footprint. This is never going to go away. But 

19 we can reduce the amount of carbon footprint 

20 that's being, you know, put out there. We're 

21 talking about 32 percent of -- according to you, 

22 the EPA, 32 percent of our carbon footprint comes 

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1 from electrical power usage.

2 So, how can we reduce this? We have 

3 other ways of producing energy and electricity, 

4 fuel, and so forth. For myself, I looked into, 

5 what can I do to help my people? Because we need 

6 jobs. We need jobs to pay these bills, and what 

7 are we going to do?

8 So we came up with an idea, or at least I 

9 came up with an idea. I need to help. I need to 

10 do something. I'm not going to rely on the big 

11 power company to help us, because they're not.

12 So we need some sort of renewable idea. 

13 We came up with using algae as a source. Because 

14 with algae, we can create integrated bio15 refineries where we can produce fuel, which is 

16 gasoline, diesel, and even jet fuel. We can also 

17 produce bio-products.

18 We can also produce power that can be 

19 added to the grid that will be -- at least we 

20 know these are not crazy things that are going to 

21 fluctuate prices all up and down for people.

22 So, part of that -- in doing this, we 

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1 started looking carefully into, how can this be 

2 done? How can it be done correctly and possibly 

3 like creating jobs as well? Whereas a lot of 

4 stuff in terms of my neighborhood that needs 

5 energy efficiency, so we need training.

6 We need to create an atmosphere where we 

7 can train people who can actually go out and do 

8 those jobs in communities like that and create, 

9 you know, another means of income for themselves, 

10 as well in helping these old homes become energy 

11 efficient.

12 So we propose to do these things. We 

13 propose that, hey, we can produce these products 

14 and we can produce these products at a lot 

15 cheaper price. We also studied and learned that, 

16 hey, with all the landfills in the United States, 

17 reducing 65 percent of these landfill, we can 

18 provide up to 2 percent of the electrical power 

19 in this country from just landfill, methane gas.

20 We also learned in this process that we 

21 can provide products that are environmentally 

22 friendly, not all these petro-chemical products

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1 like plastics that just are not biodegradable. 

2 We can provide these biodegradable products 

3 using, you know, new technologies.

4 We're using new business methods, using 

5 lean -- into building these products. So we know 

6 what our customers want. We're out there 

7 speaking to customers. We're not just talking, 

8 you know, for ourselves. We actually go out and 

9 speak to the customers, unlike the big companies 

10 do, because we're down in rural Georgia.

11 We're speaking with farmers. So many 

12 farmers are having to turn over their farming 

13 land that their family has owned for years to 

14 become growers for other large corporations, 

15 because on their own they can't sustain it based 

16 on the costs that they're paying in terms of 

17 electrical power and fuel. They need these 

18 things.

19 They also need help in reducing their 

20 greenhouse gases, as well, which is usually 

21 nitrous oxide. Well, thanks to the, you know, 

22 new technologies, we can help these farmers here. 

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1 We can provide our farmers with a means of 

2 disposing these things, of coming up with better 

3 fertilizer, and stuff like that. 

4 But if we're constantly being held down 

5 and held back by the larger companies from making 

6 these things happen, then who's going to create 

7 these jobs for these people to pay these enormous 

8 bills?

9 Because we know when it comes to the 

10 economies we're talking about, you know, from an 

11 economic standpoint, you're looking at the 

12 overall cost. When it really comes down to it, 

13 renewable energy and a power plant from that 

14 standpoint in term is far less expensive than

15 that of nuclear plant, and it's a lot cleaner.

16 MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Green, I'm sorry, but 

17 I'm going to have to ask you to wrap up your 

18 testimony.

19 MR. GREEN: All right.

20 MR. THOMPSON: Okay? And give us an 

21 opportunity to ask questions.

22 MR. GREEN: Please.

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1 MR. THOMPSON: Do either of the panel 

2 have any questions?

3 [No audible response.] 

4 MR. THOMPSON: I do have a question for 

5 you. BioGreen Enterprises, is that what you --

6 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir. BioGreenAlgae 

7 Enterprises.

8 MR. THOMPSON: Algae Enterprises; that's 

9 what I left out. All right. And how long have 

10 you been in business? How long?

11 MR. GREEN: We've been in business over a 

12 year now.

13 MR. THOMPSON: A year now? Okay. Okay. 

14 All right. Thank you for your testimony.

15 MR. GREEN: Thank you, guys.

16 MR. THOMPSON: Um-hm.

17 And, Mrs. Mason, thank you for your 

18 testimony as well. You did a great job, by the 

19 way.

20 MS. MASON: Thank you.

21 [Laughter.]

22 MS. MASON: I get to gloat.

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1 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, I'd 

2 like to ask Dianna Wedincamp and Teri Blanton to 

3 please come forward.

4 [Pause.] 

5 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning.

6 MS. WEDINCAMP: Good morning.

7 MR. THOMPSON: Are you Mrs. -- who are 

8 you?

9 MS. WEDINCAMP: Wedincamp.

10 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. 

11 Teri Blanton?

12 [No audible response.] 

13 MR. THOMPSON: No?

14 [Pause.] 

15 MR. THOMPSON: Well, up next will be 

16 Daniel Blackman, and then Don Safer. So, is 

17 Daniel Blackman in the room?

18 MR. BLACKMAN: I'm here.

19 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, if you could 

20 come forward, you can give us your testimony.

21 [Pause.] 

22 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Good morning to the 

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1 both of you.

2 [Chorus of "Good morning."]

3 MR. THOMPSON: So, could you please state 

4 and spell your name for the court reporter?

5 MS. WEDINCAMP: Yes. My name's Dianna 

6 WEDINCAMP. D-i-a-n-n-a, Wedincamp, W-e-d-i-n-c7 a-m-p.

8 I live in Emanuel County, Twin City, 

9 Georgia. And I'm a mom of two athletes. I am a 

10 member of Excelsior EMC. I am a member of 

11 Georgia Farm Bureau. I am a member of FACE and a 

12 former Riverkeeper.

13 I'm here today to say thank you for 

14 allowing the citizens in Georgia to voice their 

15 opinions on the new carbon rules. I support the 

16 EPA on the new carbon rules.

17 As I mentioned above, I am a mom of two 

18 athletes. And our children deserve clean air. 

19 Our kids deserve to play baseball, football, 

20 soccer, basketball, tennis, golf, whatever sport 

21 they would like without running to the sidelines 

22 every so often to grab an inhaler.

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1 I support the new EPA carbon rules, 

2 because my family are avid outdoorsmen. As an 

3 outdoor recreationer, I also -- we also deserve 

4 the right to enjoy the great outdoors without 

5 worrying about checking air quality and water 

6 quality before planning our trip.

7 Georgia recreation and tourism brings 

8 billions of dollars of revenue to the State of 

9 Georgia every year, making it the lead industry 

10 in Georgia. Without clean air, clean water, this 

11 industry cannot provide thousands of jobs for 

12 Georgians that need income.

13 So I ask EPA today to establish strong 

14 carbon rules to protect our right for clean air. 

15 Again, thank you for the opportunity today to 

16 speak.

17 MR. THOMPSON: Sure. Thank you, Mrs. 

18 Wedincamp.

19 Okay. Just one second, Mr. Blackman.

20 So, Mr. Blackman, would you state your 

21 name and --

22 MR. BLACKMAN: Daniel Blackman. So, do I 

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1 get like a signal at five minutes? You guys will 

2 just let me know?

3 MR. THOMPSON: No. It will -- 

4 MR. BLACKMAN: Oh, okay.

5 MR. THOMPSON: So, could you spell your 

6 name for the court reporter and then begin your 

7 testimony?

8 MR. BLACKMAN: Yes. My name is D-a-n-i9 e-l. Last name is Blackman, B-l-a-c-k-m-a-n.

10 MR. THOMPSON: Um-hm. Please begin.

11 MR. BLACKMAN: Okay. So I'm going to 

12 read somewhat of a prepared statement that I 

13 have, and then I'm going to offer up an opinion.

14 And again, just like the lady next to me, 

15 I appreciate you all being here. I know you guys 

16 have heard a lot of voices today, and you'll hear 

17 a lot going into tomorrow. So we appreciate you 

18 allowing us to be a part of this process.

19 I want to open up by saying that I 

20 challenge any argument -- first and foremost, I 

21 do support the clean energy rule. I think it's 

22 important for us. I grew up with asthma. And as 

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1 the young lady said earlier, I played soccer for 

2 years, and I ran track, and I had several 

3 instances where, growing up, I remember the 

4 challenges of someone that has it.

5 So I challenge any argument that clean --

6 clean can be measured by a single emission rate 

7 while ignoring air quality and land and water 

8 impacts, and ignoring any technology's full life 

9 cycle.

10 What the public requires is a 

11 straightforward account of the true cost of 

12 electric generation. And the reason why I say 

13 this is because right here in Georgia, I know 

14 over the past decade, we've imported about $2.9 

15 billion worth of coal per year. And that's more 

16 than any other state around the United States.

17 Now, these ideas, although they're 

18 innovative in their ideas, I believe that with us 

19 being in Atlanta today, being in the South, the 

20 reason why I think it's so important for us to 

21 have a say-so in this is because Ivan Allen, Jr., 

22 and Martin Luther King, during the Civil Rights 

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1 movement, they knew that there was an issue, that 

2 even though we did business as usual during the 

3 movement, there was just some progress that had 

4 to be made. And I believe what this represents 

5 is progress.

6 My grandfather was a consulate general to 

7 New York and ultimately served in his latter 

8 years as a diplomat to the United Nations. And 

9 in 1987, the United Nations co-defined 

10 sustainable development as "the ability to meet 

11 the needs of the present without compromising the 

12 ability of future generations to meet their own 

13 needs." And I truly believe that what we're 

14 doing is in the best interests of our children.

15 I am a candidate in Georgia for the 

16 Public Service Commission. But I'm here today to 

17 speak to you as a father and as a husband and as 

18 someone that has traveled around the State of 

19 Georgia that has spoken to people in rural 

20 Georgia that are affected every single day by the 

21 decisions that we're going to making today.

22 Now, I do appreciate the industry and the 

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1 individuals that are here, because I think that 

2 this is an open opportunity for a dialog and not 

3 a monolog. I don't expect a one-sided 

4 conversation. And what all of we will hear today 

5 is we'll hear the opinions of environmentalists 

6 and conservationists, like myself. And we'll 

7 also hear the industry. We'll hear the business 

8 community, and I think that's important.

9 What we won't hear is the 300,000 

10 children in Georgia that suffer from asthma. You 

11 know, they're not going to be able to give their 

12 testimony today. We're not going to hear from 

13 the 1.8 million people in Georgia that live at or 

14 below poverty, which are affected every single 

15 day.

16 Recently, in Georgia, we had some of the 

17 worst-recorded weather on record, as many of you 

18 all remembered and saw it outplayed through 

19 national media, what was held as "Snowmageddon." 

20 And we also have seen some of the hottest 

21 summers. The last two Julys have been some of 

22 the hottest on record.

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1 The reason why I bring those up is 

2 because we fussed and we really looked, and we 

3 saw the impact that it had on our children being 

4 in school. But when you add up the fact that 

5 300,000 of our children are suffering from 

6 asthma, you add up the days missed from work and 

7 missed from school, I think it's very important 

8 for us to address that.

9 Right here in Georgia, especially, I 

10 think this is the perfect example of why this is 

11 important, not just because of the coal-fired 

12 plants we have. But as I travel throughout 

13 Georgia, I was just in Macon and spoke to some 

14 people in Juliette, Georgia, about Plant Scherer. 

15 And we also have a nuclear expansion in Georgia.

16 And all these things, in my opinion, 

17 should really be based upon the one thing. When 

18 I think about the State of Georgia, and our seal 

19 says, "Wisdom, Justice, and Moderation." And I 

20 think it's wise for us, one, to have this 

21 conversation.

22 But, you know, I'll end with a quote from 

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1 the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., who, 

2 obviously, as we know, was a native of Atlanta. 

3 But he said, "A threat to justice anywhere" --

4 "An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice 

5 everywhere."

6 And I think for us to not surely look for 

7 -- look down the line, look over the next 10 

8 years and really, truly invest today into our 

9 generations for tomorrow would be a grave mistake 

10 on our part.

11 So I encourage you to take into 

12 consideration all the comments that are being 

13 made, but also to make sure that we're putting 

14 the right things in place that allow our children 

15 to have the same opportunity 50 years from now to 

16 make the same decisions as us.

17 Thank you so much.

18 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Blackman 

19 and Mrs. Wedincamp.

20 Are there any questions?

21 MS. BANISTER: I have a question for Mrs. 

22 Wedincamp. You said "FACE." What did that stand 

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1 for?

2 MRS. WEDINCAMP: Fall-line Alliance for 

3 Clean Energy.

4 MS. BANISTER: Okay.

5 MR. THOMPSON: Anything else?

6 MS. BANISTER: No.

7 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, again, thank 

8 you for your testimony.

9 MR. BLACKMAN: Thank you all.

10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

11 Okay. At this time, I'd like to ask Don 

12 Safer to please come forward.

13 [Pause.]

14 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, Mr. Safer.

15 MR. SAFER: Good morning.

16 MR. THOMPSON: If you would pronounce, 

17 spell your name for the court reporter, and then 

18 you can begin your testimony, sir.

19 MR. SAFER: Thank you.

20 MR. THOMPSON: You're welcome.

21 MR. SAFER: My name is Don Safer, D-o-n 

22 S-a-f-e-r.

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1 I want to thank the EPA for providing 

2 this opportunity for public input. And I also 

3 would like to thank you for the five minutes. 

4 That's a good amount of time, and I appreciate 

5 that.

6 I'm from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm the 

7 former Board Chairman and current Policy 

8 Committee Chairman for the Tennessee 

9 Environmental Council. I prepared these comments 

10 for the Tennessee Environmental Council.

11 Time is running out on our opportunity to 

12 change course on our energy policies and 

13 practices before it is too late to avoid the most 

14 drastic effects of climate change. We 

15 desperately need to dramatically reduce the 

16 impact our voracious appetite for energy is 

17 having on our fundamental life support systems, 

18 our biosphere.

19 We trust it is still possible to have a 

20 healthy planet and a healthy economy supporting 

21 healthy people and biota. But we must change 

22 quickly and decisively to more sustainable 

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1 technologies and behaviors.

2 The EPA's Clean Power Plan is a good 

3 start. It recognizes the need for reducing our 

4 carbon output. But we must do more and do it 

5 faster because it is crucial that the Federal 

6 Government begin contributing to the solution on 

7 which many individuals, businesses, nonprofits, 

8 and state and local governments have already made 

9 much progress.

10 Fortunately, there is a new energy system 

11 emerging which will give us the power we need to 

12 build a sustainable future that we can be proud 

13 to pass on to our future. The truly clean 

14 electricity system of the future is here today. 

15 Energy efficiency; energy conservation; 

16 renewables like solar, wind, tidal power, and 

17 more; and new energy storage systems are making 

18 huge centralized power plants obsolete.

19 The Clean Power Plan greatly 

20 underestimates the revolution going on today in 

21 electricity technology. Unfortunately, the plan 

22 makes a monumental and possibly tragic blunder in 

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1 supporting nuclear power as a part of the answer 

2 for carbon pollution.

3 It is a mistake to exchange one 

4 environmental nightmare for another. This plan 

5 totally ignores nuclear fission's fatal, 

6 fundamental flaws. Nuclear reactors manufacture 

7 insane amounts of radiation, which must be 

8 isolated from the biosphere for hundreds of 

9 thousands of years. We still have no plan for 

10 safe long-term storage of its high-level waste.

11 Misleadingly labeled low-level 

12 radioactive waste is being burned, processed, and 

13 buried in increasingly risky ways. There is 

14 currently a proposal to allow waste oil from 

15 nuclear power plants into our commercial oil 

16 recycling stream. There is a pressure to allow 

17 radioactive metals to be recycled.

18 Excess manmade atmospheric carbon is the 

19 devil this plan knows. Manmade radiation is the 

20 one the EPA is missing. Nuclear power is not 

21 clean, sustainable, renewable, economical, safe, 

22 or reliable.

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1 It is flirting with disaster to provide 

2 more subsidies to continue operating dangerous, 

3 leaky, old nuclear reactors. Building new 

4 reactors is incredibly expensive and extremely 

5 slow. It is plagued with significant cost 

6 overruns, delays, and design problems.

7 There is always the weighing of cost 

8 versus safety; often, cost wins, lower cost wins.

9 The Tennessee Valley Authority Watts Bar 

10 Unit 2 is a case in point. It is one of the five 

11 under-construction reactors the plan takes into 

12 account. This reactor is an antiquated ice 

13 condenser, or eggshell containment, design from 

14 the 1960s. It relies on 3 million pounds of 

15 chipped ice hanging in baskets surrounding the 

16 reactor to allow a thinner containment vessel.

17 This design is especially vulnerable to 

18 releasing massive amounts of radiation in a loss 

19 of coolant accident. Construction began on Watts 

20 Bar 2 in 1973; it is scheduled to come online in 

21 2015. Over 6 billion will have been spent in 42 

22 years before a single watt has been generated.

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1 Nuclear power has extreme downside risks. 

2 The Chernobyl accident caused thousands of 

3 deaths, disease, and birth defects, while costing 

4 over 300 billion. The triple-meltdown at 

5 Fukushima forced the long-term evacuation of over 

6 150,000 people; it will cost hundreds of billions 

7 of dollars. The toll of death and disease is 

8 only slowly emerging.

9 In the United States, we have 23 nearly 

10 identical aging GE Mark 1 reactors still 

11 operating. There are three at Browns Ferry. We 

12 are downwind from those Browns Ferry reactors.

13 Nuclear power is not an acceptable 

14 replacement for carbon-based generation. We 

15 should launch an all-out effort to build a truly 

16 clean energy system with renewables and energy 

17 efficiency.

18 Thank you.

19 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Safer.

20 Are there any questions for Mr. Safer?

21 MS. BANISTER: Yes, I have one.

22 So, I just wanted to make sure -- your 

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1 concerns about nuclear as a viable option, that's 

2 just general? You have general concerns about 

3 nuclear, not just the specific plants that you 

4 identified? Are there plants that you --

5 MR. SAFER: The former Board Chairman, 

6 Gregory Jaczko, of the Nuclear Regulatory 

7 Commission, is on record having stated that not a 

8 single one of the over 100 reactors operating 

9 currently in the United States he considers safe.

10 But I would say that the Browns Ferry 

11 reactors in Tennessee -- I'm in the Tennessee 

12 Valley Authority area. I focus on TVA.

13 MS. BANISTER: Um-hm.

14 MR. SAFER: But all of their reactors are 

15 old designs, and not that the new designs are any 

16 better. There's significant issues with the 

17 AP1000s that are being built in South Carolina 

18 and Georgia.

19 But my concerns are that the technology 

20 is just too complicated. And that radioactive 

21 waste, when you split the nucleus of a uranium 

22 atom, you are multiplying radiation. The fuel 

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1 rods that come out of those reactors that are 

2 called spent are 1 to 3 million times more 

3 radioactive than the fuel rods that went in with 

4 highly enriched uranium.

5 And they contain a stew of radioactive 

6 isotopes, many of which are bioavailable and get 

7 into our food system and into our bodies. Once 

8 they get lodged in our bodies, they are much more 

9 likely to cause bad health effects. And they do 

10 get into -- you know, they affect women more. 

11 They affect children more. They affect the 

12 unborn more.

13 So I think it's just a dead-end 

14 technology that had offered promise in the 1950s. 

15 But 70 years later, 60 years later, we know 

16 enough to know that we should not be messing with 

17 that technology. And in Germany and many other 

18 countries, they have turned away from it.

19 MS. BANISTER: Thank you very much.

20 MR. SAFER: Thank you.

21 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you, Mr. 

22 Safer.

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1 And at this time, I'd like to ask Mrs. 

2 Blanton to please come forward.

3 [Pause.] 

4 MR. THOMPSON: I'm glad we got you in the 

5 right room.

6 MS. BLANTON: Yes, thank you.

7 [Laughter.]

8 MS. BLANTON: My name is Teri Blanton. 

9 That's T-e-r-i B-l-a-n-t-o-n.

10 MR. THOMPSON: Um-hm.

11 MS. BLANTON: My name is Teri Blanton. I 

12 am a Kentuckian. I grew up in Harlan County in 

13 the heart of the Appalachian Mountains.

14 My community today is a toxic mess 

15 poisoned by acid mine drainage, coal slurry, and 

16 industrial waste. After more than a century of 

17 mining, we remain one of the poorest and least18 healthy counties in America. Harlan County has 

19 been losing coal jobs for decades.

20 First, the industry replaced miners with 

21 explosives. Lately, mining jobs have fallen off 

22 a cliff due to competition from cheaper energy. 

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1 Most of us understand those jobs are never coming 

2 back.

3 Despite this hard reality, good people 

4 are coming together in Harlan County and all 

5 across central Appalachia to build a brighter 

6 future. Our people have been producing energy 

7 for this nation for over 100 years. We're proud 

8 of our heritage, but there is no reason we should 

9 stay stuck in time as the world changes.

10 Why shouldn't Eastern Kentucky be in the 

11 forefront of a clean energy revolution? Why 

12 shouldn't we seize this moment to create jobs in 

13 wind, solar, and hydropower? Appalachian people 

14 are resourceful, skilled, and hardworking. We 

15 can put our communities back to work today by 

16 making our homes energy efficient and installing 

17 small-scale renewable-energy systems. That's 

18 true energy independence.

19 This EPA climate plan can and should do 

20 much more to help us make this transition to a 

21 clean energy economy.

22 I'm also a grandmother to three wonderful 

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1 grandchildren. My family lives within 40 miles 

2 of three coal-burning power plants in Kentucky. 

3 All three of my grandchildren suffer from asthma 

4 or other COPD-related illnesses.

5 For us, this debate is not just about 

6 reducing the threat of climate change. It is 

7 also about reducing exposure to toxic pollution 

8 from burning coal that contributes to high rates 

9 of asthma, premature death, chronic heart and 

10 lung diseases all across Kentucky.

11 The EPA Clean Power Plan can and should 

12 do much more to protect our health and the health 

13 of all people living in front-line communities 

14 where dirty energy is extracted and burned. 

15 Unfortunately, the proposed Clean Power rule is 

16 far too weak to safeguard our health, jumpstart a 

17 clean economy, or address the threat of climate 

18 change.

19 The EPA must stop allowing itself to be 

20 bullied by our politicians who deny science and 

21 reality. Do your job. Protect our health. 

22 Follow the science. It is past time to act on 

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1 climate. You've got to get this one right for 

2 all of our sakes. You have to get this one right 

3 this time.

4 I urge the EPA to strengthen the Clean 

5 Power Plan in these key ways: Make environmental 

6 justice and the health of front-line communities 

7 a top priority. Right now, the plan you propose 

8 ensures that many of the very same people in 

9 places who are suffering today in Kentucky will 

10 continue to be exposed to high levels of toxic 

11 pollution in the future. This is unacceptable, 

12 and we won't get another chance to get this 

13 right.

14 Don't give utilities credit for switching 

15 from burning coal to burning natural gas, 

16 garbage, or forest. If you do, we will simply be 

17 switching deck chairs on the Titanic. There is 

18 now convincing evidence that the life cycle of 

19 natural gas is just as harmful to our climate as 

20 mining and burning coal. Burning garbage or 

21 trees also results in unacceptably high carbon 

22 emissions and other harmful pollution.

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1 Sadly, the EPA's Clean Power Plan uses 

2 outdated and faulty science to give the green 

3 light to building a new dirty power 

4 infrastructure in the place of the current one. 

5 That is unacceptable, and we won't get another 

6 chance to do this right.

7 Raise the bar. And ask Kentucky to meet 

8 a higher emission-reduction goal. Kentucky's 

9 reduction target is the third smallest required 

10 by the EPA for any state. According to the 

11 Louisville Courier-Journal, by next year, our 

12 utilities will already be more than halfway to 

13 their 2030 goal, under this plan.

14 Last month, a top state official 

15 testified before our legislature that proposed 

16 rule is so modest that it might not cause a 

17 single additional coal plant in our state to 

18 retire. That's a good indication that your 

19 targets are too low and not strong enough to 

20 safeguard our health or our climate. That's 

21 unacceptable, and we won't get another chance to 

22 get this right.

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1 Require Kentucky utilities to 

2 significantly ramp up investments in clean, 

3 renewable energy. A major study by Downstream 

4 Strategies shows that Kentucky could generate 34 

5 percent of our electricity from distributed 

6 renewables alone by 2025.

7 A study by Synapse Energy Economics 

8 describes how a modest renewable and efficiency 

9 portfolio standard could generate 28,000 new jobs 

10 in Kentucky and lower average bills by 8 to 10 

11 percent compared to a business-as-usual scenario.

12 The limits to what we can achieve in 

13 Kentucky are political, not technical. That's 

14 unacceptable, and we won't get another chance to 

15 get this right.

16 The Clean Power Plan should require 

17 utilities to achieve ambitious energy efficiency 

18 targets before pursuing other strategies. 

19 Ramping up efficiency programs in Kentucky would 

20 create good jobs and allow people to keep money 

21 in their pockets, while benefiting our health and 

22 climate. That's a win-win.

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1 But the evidence is clear that Kentucky's 

2 utilities and lawmakers won't prioritize energy 

3 efficiency unless they are required to do so. 

4 That's unacceptable, and we won't get another 

5 chance to get it right.

6 The last point I want to make is one that 

7 I've learned over more than three decades of 

8 working for environmental justice in Kentucky. 

9 The EPA must show up from the very first day with 

10 the courage and commitment to fully enforce this 

11 rule. You will face obstruction, delay, and what 

12 I call systemic and intentional incompetence from 

13 our lawmakers and agencies.

14 That's unacceptable. We won't get 

15 another chance to get this right. Our 

16 communities and planet don't have 40 years to 

17 mess around. For the sake of my grandchildren, 

18 and all of our children and grandchildren, the 

19 EPA has got to get this one right. We have to 

20 get this one right this time.

21 Thank you.

22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Blanton.

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1 Are there any questions for Mrs. Blanton?

2 Beverly?

3 Mrs. Blanton, could you please sit tight?

4 MS. BLANTON: Yes.

5 MS. BANISTER: I was particularly 

6 interested in your statement with regard to 

7 utilizing outdated and faulty -- outdated 

8 information and faulty science.

9 MS. BLANTON: Yes. 

10 MS. BANISTER: And so, if you have 

11 additional information in that regard, please 

12 share it with us during this public comment 

13 period. We would like to see. We want to make 

14 sure that we are using the most accurate data to 

15 inform decision-making. So we would invite 

16 additional information if you have that.

17 MS. BLANTON: I'll make sure to get that 

18 to you. Thank you.

19 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

20 Daryl, any questions?

21 [No audible response.] 

22 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for your 

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1 testimony.

2 MS. BLANTON: Thank you.

3 MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like to 

4 invite Leslie Stampler and Scott Gladberry to the 

5 podium.

6 [Pause.] 

7 MR. THOMPSON: Leslie Stampler, Scott 

8 Gladberry? Okay. 

9 [Pause.] 

10 MR. THOMPSON: Mary Anne Hitt and Janice 

11 Nolen?

12 [Pause.] 

13 MR. THOMPSON: Mary Anne Hitt and Janice 

14 Nolen?

15 [Pause.]

16 MR. THOMPSON: Okay.

17 [Pause.] 

18 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, Mrs. Nolen.

19 MS. NOLEN: Good morning. Thank you. I 

20 am Janice Nolen. That's J-a-n-i-c-e N-o-l-e-n. 

21 I'm Assistant Vice President for National Policy 

22 for the American Lung Association.

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1 I appreciate the opportunity to provide 

2 comments today that are a brief summary on a few 

3 topics. We will submit more detailed comments in 

4 writing.

5 The American Lung Association strongly 

6 supports EPA's commitment to reducing carbon 

7 pollution from existing electricity generation to 

8 protect human health. The Clean Power Plan 

9 provides a flexible partnership that enables 

10 states to reduce carbon pollution coming from 

11 existing electricity sources within each state, 

12 and at the same time reduce other life13 threatening pollutants.

14 Climate change threatens human health. 

15 In May, the National Climate Assessment provided 

16 only the latest analysis to report the risks from 

17 rising temperatures, increased air pollution, 

18 drought, wildfires, and extreme weather events.

19 But many citizens have assumed these 

20 threats were off sometime in the distant future. 

21 The National Climate Assessment ripped up that 

22 rationalization, spelling out clear evidence that 

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1 the U.S. has suffered the damage from changing 

2 climate for some time.

3 Cleaning up carbon pollution is essential 

4 to fighting those damages and will help public 

5 health immediately. Steps to reduce carbon 

6 pollution will cut emissions of other toxic air 

7 pollutants, including nitrogen oxides, sulfur 

8 dioxide, and mercury.

9 These pollutants are harmful in and of 

10 themselves. Nitrogen oxides irritate the lungs, 

11 trigger asthma, and increases the risk of 

12 infection. Sulfur dioxide triggers asthma 

13 attacks and increases the risk of hospitalization 

14 and emergency room visits.

15 Not only do these pollutants harm health 

16 directly, but they are also the precursors to 

17 ozone and particulate matter, the most widespread 

18 and among the most dangerous air pollutants. 

19 Cutting carbon pollution will cut these, too.

20 For millions of people, the immediate 

21 impact of the Clean Power Plan will come from the 

22 reduction of ozone and particulate matter. Ozone 

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1 and particulate matter pollution cause difficulty 

2 breathing, asthma attacks, and premature deaths 

3 and have been linked to low birth weight in 

4 newborns.

5 Particulate matter causes heart attack 

6 and strokes, and we now know that particulate 

7 matter causes lung cancer. Particulate matter 

8 may also increase the risk of infant mortality.

9 To adequately protect public health, we 

10 need greater reductions in carbon pollution and 

11 in the other pollutants than what EPA has 

12 outlined in this proposal. We urge EPA to 

13 strengthen the plan and therefore the proposed 

14 targets for the states. Stronger targets will 

15 provide greater immediate and long-term public 

16 health benefits.

17 EPA needs to ensure that the final 

18 guidelines will provide critical relief for 

19 people who live near the power plants and who 

20 have suffered from these pollutants for decades. 

21 The communities are often lower in income and 

22 higher in populations with existing lung disease 

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1 and other chronic diseases. They need these 

2 reductions to come from the smokestacks nearby.

3 The Lung Association urges EPA to shorten 

4 the time for putting these measures in place, but 

5 does not support setting weaker standards to 

6 accommodate that shorter time frame. Five years 

7 would be reasonable and provide more time to 

8 implement than other large measures adopted by 

9 EPA in the past, including the NOx SIP Call.

10 The Lung Association is concerned about 

11 the inclusion of biomass as an acceptable 

12 alternative energy source. The Lung Association 

13 does not support biomass combustion for 

14 electricity production, a category that includes 

15 wood, wood products, agricultural residues, or 

16 forest wastes; and potentially highly toxic-feed 

17 stocks, such as construction and demolition 

18 wastes. The biomass's combusted state-of-the-art 

19 pollution controls must be required.

20 We appreciate EPA's commitment to 

21 quantifiable, non-duplicative, permanent, 

22 verifiable, and enforceable state plans. Those 

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1 tests are not easy for the states to meet, nor 

2 for EPA to enforce. EPA must be clear that the 

3 final standards must be enforceable, not just by 

4 EPA, but by citizens, including groups like the 

5 American Lung Association.

6 State plans should also include 

7 enforceable provisions for those who the states 

8 have determined will implement these commitments. 

9 States must demonstrate their commitment to 

10 adequate resources and authority to meet these 

11 goals. EPA must clearly spell out the timing and 

12 process to enforce a federal plan for states that 

13 fail to meet the requirements.

14 Thank you.

15 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

16 Are there any questions for Mrs. Nolen?

17 Beverly?

18 Daryl?

19 [No audible response.] 

20 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for your 

21 testimony.

22 MS. NOLEN: Thank you very much.

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1 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

2 [Pause.] 

3 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, I'd 

4 like to invite Lisa Rayner and Scott Segal to 

5 please come forward.

6 [Pause.] 

7 MR. THOMPSON: Two people who were just 

8 called aren't here. And Scott Gladberry will be 

9 here later. Is there any way they can have a 

10 chance later? 

11 [Inaudible conversation.]

12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

13 Good morning.

14 MS. RAYNER: Good morning.

15 [Pause.] 

16 MR. SEGAL: Just one second more.

17 MR. THOMPSON: Take your time, man. Nice 

18 and dapper now.

19 Good morning to the both of you.

20 [Chorus of "Good morning."]

21 MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for coming.

22 We'll start with Mrs. Rayner. Could you 

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1 say your name and spell it for the court 

2 reporter, please?

3 MS. RAYNER: Sure. It's Lisa Rayner, R4 a-y-n-e-r. And I'm honored to come today before 

5 the EPA. Thank you for having me.

6 I'm here to share my story on behalf of 

7 all mothers who have lost or have come close to 

8 losing a child due to asthma. I'm one of the 

9 lucky ones because my daughter Caroline survived. 

10 Our journey began just as she turned 17.

11 There was nothing alarming, just a 

12 lethargic teenager and a mother's intuition. 

13 This nagging feeling turned into a trip to the 

14 doctor, followed by an ambulance ride to a local 

15 hospital where, after five hours of trying to get 

16 her oxygen level up, I was given the choice of 

17 taking her home or transferring her to the 

18 Children's Hospital. You see, because she was 

19 17, they couldn't do anything else for her.

20 So I had Caroline transferred to 

21 Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. We arrived at 

22 Egleston just before midnight, where I discovered 

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1 her oxygen level was 73. The staff worked on 

2 Caroline for three-and-a-half hours, pumping her 

3 lungs full of oxygen and albuterol until she was 

4 stabilized enough to send her to the ICU.

5 Exhausted as I was -- and I apologize. 

6 It's still painful.

7 MR. THOMPSON: That's okay. Take your 

8 time.

9 [Pause.]

10 MS. RAYNER: Exhausted as I was, I 

11 anxiously awaited the doctor's arrival that next 

12 morning, not having slept for 24 hours myself. 

13 She checked out my daughter, then looked at me 

14 and said, "She's not out of the woods yet."

15 My first thought was, "We're in the 

16 woods?" I was naive. But then I looked around, 

17 and I saw the IV in her arm, the oxygen machine 

18 over her mouth, forcing pure air into her lungs. 

19 And I saw the Code Blue instructions posted by 

20 her bed. And for the first time, I realized that 

21 she could actually die.

22 But like I said, we were lucky. After 

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1 four days in ICU, she was transferred to a 

2 regular room on a regular floor. But her attack 

3 was anything but regular. It was severe. And it 

4 was unique because she survived it.

5 We had several follow-up visits to Emory6 Children's Center with Dr. Anne Fitzpatrick, who 

7 developed an asthma action plan. We learned that 

8 there are three zones: green, which meant doing 

9 well on the three daily asthma medications she 

10 was required to take; yellow, which meant her 

11 condition was getting worse and we had to add to 

12 her routine the rescue albuterol inhaler; and 

13 red, which was the medical alert involving 

14 another trip to the ER.

15 Ironically, I remember when Caroline was 

16 12 and she came home from school after learning 

17 about carbon footprints from a Captain Planet 

18 exercise she had at school. She came home, and 

19 she turned off all the lights in the house, and 

20 she said, "If everyone would just take a moment 

21 to care, maybe we could all make a difference."

22 Now, she's 21. And she has made a 

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1 difference in how I view carbon pollution and the 

2 effects it has on our children and everyday 

3 lives. So I support the Clean Power Plan, and I 

4 urge everyone to ask yourselves, "What does your 

5 carbon footprint say about your legacy?"

6 Thank you.

7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Rayner, on 

8 behalf of the Agency and on behalf of Caroline. 

9 Thank you for your testimony.

10 MS. RAYNER: Thank you.

11 MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Segal?

12 MR. SEGAL: Sure. Thanks. My name is 

13 Scott Segal. I'm Director of the Electric 

14 Reliability Coordinating Council.

15 ERCC is a broad-based coalition of energy 

16 companies that works to ensure the consumers 

17 across the United States continue to have access 

18 to reliable, affordable, and environmentally 

19 responsible power, including providing power to 

20 millions of consumers across the Southeast.

21 Climate change policy is complicated. It 

22 involves difficult choices, careful balancing of 

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1 costs, risks, and benefits. And it must take 

2 into account the international nature of carbon 

3 emissions.

4 However, to establish a nationwide energy 

5 and electricity policy through EPA regulations is 

6 probably not the proper way to engage this 

7 complicated policy debate. ERCC shares the 

8 concerns about EPA's proposals and shares 

9 concerns about the health impacts of conventional 

10 air pollutants as well that have been raised by 

11 many states, energy companies, people testifying 

12 here today, small businesses, manufacturers, 

13 legal experts, and other individuals.

14 This proposal is an unprecedented use of 

15 about 300 words in the Clean Air Act that could 

16 eventually threaten the reliability of our 

17 country's electric supply and result in 

18 significantly higher costs, without appreciable 

19 benefits.

20 The reliability risks created by the 

21 proposal are significant and need to be carefully 

22 analyzed prior to the adoption of climate change 

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1 policies. When electricity is unreliable, 

2 vulnerable populations can face life-threatening 

3 conditions as a result of heat or cold, and the 

4 basic functioning of the economy is imperiled.

5 In fact, while we've been testifying here 

6 today, members of the Federal Energy Regulatory 

7 Commission, which is the nation's reliability 

8 regulatory body, have been testifying before 

9 Congress. Two of the members of the commission 

10 have been very clear -- in fact, all of the 

11 members of the commission have been clear that 

12 they were not personally consulted by EPA over 

13 the course of the construction of the proposal. 

14 And I find that troubling.

15 Our fear is that without sufficient 

16 generating facilities, another polar vortex or 

17 heat wave may expose these vulnerabilities and 

18 subject citizens and businesses to energy 

19 shortages and price shocks.

20 EPA has attempted to downplay the cost 

21 concerns associated with the rule by promising 

22 that households will save money by encouraging 

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1 them to use electricity, but that's -- use less 

2 electricity, I should say. But that's cold 

3 comfort.

4 Knowing that the government is trying to 

5 make you use less electricity will do nothing to 

6 help people on fixed incomes who have to run 

7 their air conditioner longer during a heat wave 

8 or heat during a cold snap, because the promise 

9 of greater efficiency or lower cost in the next 

10 decade will not pay the bills that are due at the 

11 end of the month.

12 I have heard, including from my neighbor 

13 right here, about very, very troubling asthma 

14 conditions. I've had family and friends that 

15 have suffered from it. I've even suffered from 

16 it myself from time to time. And I'm completely 

17 sympathetic to the stories that I've heard.

18 But the fact is that carbon is not a 

19 precursor for asthma. This rule is supposed to 

20 be a carbon rule. The fact is that EPA admits 

21 that conventional air pollution, which is the 

22 precursor for asthma, has been in decline for

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1 years, and that the agency has adopted a number 

2 of recent rules to address the very sort of 

3 emissions -- particulate matter -- it now claims 

4 to be reducing with the carbon rule.

5 In fact, through those other rules, it 

6 has established a program that is protective of 

7 human health in the environment with a sufficient 

8 margin of safety -- and this is the legal test --

9 for susceptible subpopulations like older 

10 Americans or younger Americans that are 

11 particularly susceptible to asthma.

12 Put another way, the agency continues to 

13 pile on new regulatory costs, but claim the same 

14 benefits it has used to justify other costly 

15 rules. This is called double-accounting and 

16 should not be the basis for a carbon rule.

17 Carbon emissions are a global issue. 

18 Indeed, U.S. carbon emissions have been stable or 

19 declined over the last decade. Georgia 

20 greenhouse gas emissions have fallen by 33 

21 percent between 2005 and 2012. By contrast, 

22 emissions from China have increased over 170 

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1 percent, India over 95 percent.

2 Therefore, climate policy requires a 

3 comprehensive approach incorporating coordinated 

4 legislation, international diplomacy, and a 

5 thorough, deliberative process. However, this 

6 proposal is risky and expensive, will do nothing 

7 to address the global nature of carbon emissions. 

8 EPA's proposal comes with real risks for 

9 health and economic wellbeing of our country, and 

10 the proposal shouldn't be finalized as currently 

11 drafted.

12 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Thank you for your 

13 testimony, Mr. Segal and Mrs. Rayner.

14 Are there any questions for either of 

15 them?

16 MS. BANISTER: I'd like for you to 

17 clarify just briefly on -- you made a statement 

18 that the reliability issue is very significant.

19 MR. SEGAL: Um-hm.

20 MS. BANISTER: So, could you just expand 

21 just a little bit on that?

22 MR. SEGAL: Sure. Let me just cite some 

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1 statistics. I'm sure folks in the room and 

2 elsewhere remember the matter of the polar vortex 

3 of just last winter. And in fact, there have 

4 been recent reports by proponents of global 

5 warming legislation and regulation that indicate 

6 those type of conditions are more likely to 

7 happen in the future.

8 During the polar vortex, 89 percent of 

9 the coal-generating facilities that were slated 

10 to be closed under the Mercury and Air Toxics 

11 rule had to run full-out in order to maintain 

12 reliability. Now, that's an extreme stress on 

13 the system. But I don't think we can rule out 

14 stresses on the system that will occur in the 

15 future.

16 The downside consequences of losing 

17 reliable power, particularly during a severe 

18 weather event, are tremendous, particularly for 

19 protection of public health. It's not -- it's 

20 not a matter of industry profits. It's not a 

21 matter of what the shareholders say. It's a 

22 matter of the solemn obligation the power 

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1 provider has to provide reliable and affordable 

2 power to households.

3 [Pause.] 

4 MS. BANISTER: I was wondering if you 

5 could expand upon the statement regarding the 

6 costs and the double-accounting of benefits.

7 MR. SEGAL: Oh, yeah. I'm happy to do 

8 that.

9 We have a national ambient air quality 

10 standard for particulate matter. The scientific 

11 basis of that standard, which allows a broad 

12 variety of mechanisms to address, is protection 

13 with an adequate margin of safety for susceptible 

14 subpopulations.

15 Just last -- well, I guess it was two 

16 years ago now, when MAT's was being finalized, 

17 the Mercury and Air Toxics rule, which was an air 

18 toxics rule -- again, not an asthma rule -- the 

19 administration claimed -- or I should say the EPA 

20 claimed health benefits associated with 

21 particulate-matter reduction below the level at 

22 which science has determined adequate protection 

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1 for susceptible subpopulations.

2 Now, you cannot keep claiming the same 

3 benefits over and over again. Either the MAT's 

4 rule achieved those benefits, and therefore that 

5 adequate protection has been achieved. And 

6 therefore the same claim, without any adjustment 

7 being made by the EPA, cannot be made again in 

8 defense of the carbon rules.

9 Look. I'm using a lot of fancy words 

10 here. But let me just be real crystal clear 

11 about it. The rule doesn't reduce global 

12 warming.

13 Janet McCabe, the Assistant Administrator 

14 for Air, was in front of the House Energy and 

15 Commerce Committee last week, two weeks ago, 

16 actually, and was asked the question, "There are 

17 20 indicators of global warming. Which of these 

18 are actually reduced by your rule?"

19 And she said climate science doesn't work 

20 that way. We can make no assurances that there 

21 will be any reductions, at least of the 20 

22 indicators -- 22 indicators, I think it is. 

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1 So then you have to cast about and say, 

2 if the rule costs billions of dollars, what are 

3 we doing it for? Leadership in an international 

4 community? Maybe. But there's no data, no 

5 evidence that indicates that other countries will 

6 follow this path. So we're left with reduction 

7 of particulate matter, which is precursor for 

8 asthma.

9 But if we've already reduced particulate 

10 matter below the level where it's supposed to be 

11 a trigger for asthma, where are we? Are we left 

12 with a rule that is significantly costly, but has 

13 no benefit? And I'm afraid, in the name of 

14 "doing something" -- and quote-unquote -- "on 

15 global warming," we're producing a rule that's 

16 very expensive, but doesn't produce benefits.

17 [Pause.] 

18 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, Mrs. Rayner 

19 and Mr. Segal, thank you very much for your 

20 testimony.

21 [Chorus of "Thank you."]

22 MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I'd like to 

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1 invite John Powell and Attica Scott.

2 MS. SCOTT: Attica.

3 MR. THOMPSON: Attica, thank you.

4 [Pause.] 

5 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning to the both 

6 of you.

7 MS. SCOTT: Good morning.

8 MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, Mr. 

9 Powell, could you state and spell your name for 

10 the court reporter, and then begin your 

11 testimony, sir?

12 MR. POWELL: Yes, I can. Thank you. 

13 John, J-o-h-n, Powell, P-o-w-e-l-l.

14 Good afternoon. Again, my name is John 

15 Powell. I want to thank you for the opportunity 

16 to present on behalf of the City of Tallahassee, 

17 Florida, at this EPA public hearing on the 

18 recently proposed greenhouse gas regulations.

19 The City of Tallahassee is a full-service 

20 municipality providing a wide variety of 

21 essential services to the region, including, but 

22 not limited to, police, fire, water, wastewater, 

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1 solid waste, and electricity.

2 Our electrical utility is a 750-megawatt 

3 system that serves over 115,000 customers. As a 

4 local government and a utility provider, 

5 Tallahassee is committed to providing clean, 

6 reliable, and cost-effective service to its 

7 customers.

8 In reviewing the building blocks 

9 identified in the proposed rule, Tallahassee has 

10 been an early adopter of these building blocks. 

11 As a result of these actions, Tallahassee has 

12 reduced its carbon emissions by 42 percent from 

13 1990, down to just 960 pounds per megawatt hour, 

14 while simultaneously experiencing a 41 percent 

15 increase in customer demand.

16 Some examples of Tallahassee's early 

17 actions include eliminating the use of coal as a 

18 firm power supply resource in 2000; modernizing 

19 the city's generation fleet to become one of the 

20 cleanest, most modern, and efficient electric21 generating systems in the state; by retiring 

22 seven older generating units and replacing them 

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1 with state-of-the-art high-efficiency simple2 cycle and combined-cycle units.

3 This action alone has come at a cost of 

4 over $300 million to the city and represents over 

5 50 percent of the city's electric utility debt 

6 and 30 percent of the utility's total asset 

7 value.

8 We've also instituted an aggressive 

9 demand-side management and conservation program, 

10 targeted with deferring over 100 megawatts of 

11 capacity additions over 20 years.

12 We've actively supported renewable-energy 

13 projects, including solar, PV, and thermal. We 

14 operate one of only two hydroelectric generating 

15 facilities in the State of Florida. And we have 

16 expanded the overall city's sustainability 

17 program by creating a one-of-a-kind green 

18 department focusing on environmental 

19 sustainability and conservation.

20 As a result of these voluntary actions, 

21 Tallahassee has been recognized at the local, 

22 state, national, and even international level as 

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1 a leader in environmental stewardship, including 

2 recognition by the White House in 2012. 

3 Tallahassee has truly established itself as a 

4 model to follow for being one of the greenest 

5 cities in Florida and in EPA Region 4.

6 And as I noted earlier, Tallahassee has 

7 lowered its carbon intensity to 960 pounds per 

8 megawatt hour. This rate represents award9 winning early reductions, which is approximately 

10 20 percent lower than the current state average 

11 for Florida.

12 Based on EPA's goal of a 30 percent 

13 reduction, logic would suggest that the city 

14 would be very close to meeting the target. 

15 However, it still remains over 28 percent greater 

16 than the EPA's proposed standard for Florida. As 

17 one of the cleanest in the state and still 

18 needing a nearly 30 percent reduction just to 

19 meet the standard, it appears that the resulting 

20 math or methodology does not appear to match the 

21 stated goal.

22 Again, utilizing the cleanest-burning 

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1 fossil fuel available, operating one of the most 

2 modern electric-generating fleets, supporting 

3 renewable energy projects, undertaking aggressive 

4 sustainability and energy conservation efforts --

5 finding an additional 28 percent reduction at the 

6 City of Tallahassee is very difficult to 

7 identify, much less achieve.

8 So, for these reasons, the city has 

9 concerns about its ability to meet the limits in 

10 this proposed rule. And more specifically, the 

11 City of Tallahassee is respectfully requesting 

12 that the EPA reevaluate the impact of how to 

13 achieve this standard in each state and work with 

14 those affected utilities.

15 Help Tallahassee identify specific ways 

16 for us to meet the proposed rule without overly 

17 burdening taxpayers and utility customers; 

18 provide meaningful credits for those utilities, 

19 like Tallahassee, with voluntary early reductions 

20 and demonstrated conservation projects; and 

21 identify how the rule will continue to allow for 

22 economic growth and development within each 

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1 specific community.

2 We would welcome the opportunity to 

3 discuss with EPA these and other thoughts on 

4 fine-tuning a rule to meet the stated goal of a 

5 30 percent reduction.

6 Thank you.

7 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Powell.

8 MR. POWELL: Thank you.

9 MR. THOMPSON: Mrs. Scott.

10 MS. SCOTT: Good morning. I am Attica 

11 Scott, A-t-t-i-c-a S-c-o-t-t. And I am a 

12 councilwoman in Louisville, Kentucky, serving 

13 District 1. And I am deeply concerned about the 

14 health of my community.

15 District 1 has 19 chemical plants along 

16 what is most commonly referred to as the 

17 "Rubbertown Corridor." District 1 is also home 

18 to the Louisville Gas and Electric Company's Cane 

19 Run Road coal-fired power plant.

20 Because of that plant, I never want to 

21 become numb to the grandfather who emails me on a 

22 Saturday or Sunday afternoon that his grandkids 

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1 cannot go outside and play because of the coal 

2 ash that is flying around their neighborhood.

3 I never want to become numb to the father 

4 whose huge red-and-white backyard umbrella is now 

5 red and gray because of the coal ash that has 

6 settled on that umbrella. 

7 I care about the health of our community. 

8 On a nearly weekly basis, I receive emails, 

9 videos, phone calls, Facebook messages, and meet 

10 personally with people who are suffering every 

11 day from the fly ash that comes off of what we 

12 call "Coal Ash Mountain" on Cane Run Road and 

13 seeps into people's homes, settles on their cars, 

14 settles in their lungs and throats, and pierces 

15 their eyes.

16 Kentuckians are literally dying for a 

17 strong carbon pollution rule. It is a matter of 

18 public health, and it should be a public safety 

19 priority. When a constituent, or should I say a 

20 neighbor, contacts me and sends me a video of ash 

21 flying off of Coal Mountain into their 

22 neighborhood, I am outraged.

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1 Now, for some of you who have the 

2 privilege of moving because you may live in this 

3 kind of an area, the rest of us who live in the 

4 real world cannot afford to just up and move. 

5 And that's what a mother was recently told 

6 because of her three-year-old's upper respiratory 

7 diseases, that she should move because she is 

8 living near this Coal Ash Mountain. She cannot 

9 afford to do that.

10 So, what are some solutions? We need an 

11 energy efficiency plan that, while an elusive 

12 concept in Kentucky, my hometown, the place that 

13 I love, an energy efficiency plan is much more 

14 strategic and it must make good sense.

15 You can also demand that power plants use 

16 the best available technology rather than just 

17 the basic industry standard. Why? Because our 

18 communities deserve the best.

19 And I cannot speak for other states. But 

20 as a councilwoman who serves on both the Labor 

21 and Economic Development Committee, and the 

22 Planning and Zoning Committee of Louisville Metro 

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1 Government, I can tell you that the threats that 

2 manufacturers will leave Kentucky if we no longer 

3 have cheap electricity brought to us by King Coal 

4 is a farce.

5 Very rarely do corporate bullies pack up 

6 their toys and leave the sandbox simply because 

7 we expect them to be good corporate neighbors.

8 As an elected official, I am committed to 

9 economic prosperity and the success of 

10 communities in our state. In other states, clean 

11 energy has proven to be an economic success 

12 story, and I would like to have that success 

13 story include a chapter on Kentucky.

14 I care about my neighbors in Eastern 

15 Kentucky and urge you to push back against the 

16 war-on-coal rhetoric that heartless politicians 

17 use to divide and conquer communities. If there 

18 is indeed a war, it is being waged against the 

19 good people who call Eastern Kentucky home and 

20 who are sick and tired of having their waterways 

21 polluted.

22 Think about this: When you have coal 

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1 that is extracted in Eastern Kentucky burned in 

2 Central Kentucky and disposed of in Western 

3 Kentucky, you have left our state totally 

4 vulnerable to environmental devastation, and we 

5 cannot afford to pay that price.

6 I hope that your new rules will spur a 

7 new economy that values clean air. Can you smell 

8 it? That values clean water. Can you taste it? 

9 That values healthy neighborhoods and a healthy 

10 nation. Can you even imagine it?

11 In the words of activist Van Jones, "If 

12 we do not get involved, we will end up with eco13 apartheid, a society with ecological haves and 

14 have-nots.

15 "Imagine a world in which wealthy people 

16 have clean air, fresh water, healthy food, and 

17 no-cost energy, thanks to solar panels, organic 

18 agriculture, and green technology. Meanwhile, 

19 poor neighborhoods continue to choke in the fumes 

20 of last century's pollution-based industries."

21 Thank you.

22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Scott.

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1 Are there any questions for Mr. Powell or 

2 Mrs. Scott?

3 Beverly?

4 [No audible response.] 

5 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you both for 

6 your testimony. Thank you very much.

7 [Pause.] 

8 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, we're 

9 going to take a short break and have everyone 

10 report back to the room at 11:30, promptly. 

11 Thank you.

12 [Recess taken from 11:16 a.m. to 11:30 

13 a.m.]

14 MR. THOMPSON: Okay, ladies and 

15 gentlemen, we're going to reconvene and get 

16 started. So if you could take a seat.

17 And while folks are making their way to 

18 their seats, I'm going to ask or remind again 

19 that you please, please, please silence your cell 

20 phones. Airplane mode, turn them off, however 

21 you want to manage that. But please, and thank 

22 you in advance for taking care of that for us.

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1 All right. At this time, I'd like to ask 

2 Mary Anne Hitt and Gregory Meinweiser to please 

3 come forward for your testimony.

4 [Pause.] 

5 MR. THOMPSON: Hello again.

6 MS. HITT: Thank you. Thank you very 

7 much.

8 MR. THOMPSON: You're welcome.

9 Good morning to the both of you. Okay.

10 I'm starting with you, Mrs. Hitt. Could 

11 you pronounce and spell your name for the court 

12 reporter, and then begin your testimony?

13 MS. HITT: All right. It's Mary Anne 

14 Hitt. That's M-a-r-y A-n-n-e H-i-t-t.

15 And I'm here on behalf of the Sierra Club 

16 and our 1.2 million members and supporters, to 

17 thank EPA for putting forward this draft Clean 

18 Power Plan and for providing us with this 

19 opportunity to comment.

20 Again, my name is Mary Anne Hitt, and I 

21 am the National Director of the Sierra Club's 

22 Beyond Coal Campaign. I've traveled here today 

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1 from my home in West Virginia by way of the Smoky 

2 Mountains in East Tennessee, where is where I 

3 grew up and where I dropped off my four-year-old 

4 with her grandparents so that I could be here 

5 today.

6 I know that I am one of hundreds of 

7 people who has traveled to attend this hearing 

8 from near and far and who went to great lengths 

9 to be here. Some took time off from work. Some 

10 took time away from their families. Some piled 

11 their kids into a car or onto a bus. Some came 

12 from around the corner, and some came from 

13 hundreds of miles away.

14 Why? Because we all understand that the 

15 Clean Power Plan is one of our last opportunities 

16 to give our kids a fighting chance at a safe and 

17 promising future. And we came here to be stand 

18 up and be counted, from Georgia, from West 

19 Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, 

20 North Carolina, Mississippi, and beyond.

21 And in all the places that we're from, we 

22 understand as well as anyone that the money and 

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1 the political clout of big polluting industries 

2 can sometimes drown out the voices of the people. 

3 And so that's why we are here today, to speak for 

4 ourselves and to speak for our kids.

5 Recent study in the prestigious journal 

6 Nature found that by 2050, if we don't reduce our 

7 carbon emissions, what are now our hottest years 

8 and hottest temperatures will become our coldest 

9 years and coldest temperatures. As one of the 

10 scientists told the New York Times, quote, "Go 

11 back in your life to think about the hottest, 

12 most traumatic event you have experienced. What 

13 we're saying is that very soon, that event is 

14 going to become the norm."

15 In 2050 -- again, that's the year pegged 

16 in this study when we'll hit this point -- my 

17 daughter Hazel, who is four, will be the same age 

18 that I am today, sitting here before you. This 

19 is not some far-distant science fiction future. 

20 This is right around the corner, and this is the 

21 world that we are going to live in and we are 

22 going to share with our kids unless we reduce our 

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1 carbon emissions.

2 Once my daughter is an adult, it will be 

3 too late for her to really turn this around. So 

4 we are the last generation of people who have the 

5 opportunity to turn the corner on climate 

6 disruption. We're the last ones. And the Clean 

7 Power Plan takes a big step towards tackling this 

8 challenge by taking a bite out of our biggest 

9 source of carbon pollution.

10 The Clean Power Plan creates a strong 

11 framework that will enable states to chart their 

12 own course toward clean energy like wind, solar, 

13 and energy efficiency, by setting the goalposts 

14 and giving the charge to states to create their 

15 own plans to limit carbon pollution.

16 We know that many states, including 

17 Georgia, are well on their way. And that's 

18 because communities around the U.S., led by 

19 grass-roots activists, have secured the 

20 retirement of 170 existing coal plants while 

21 powering their states with record amounts of 

22 renewable energy and at prices cheaper than 

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1 fossil fuels.

2 The Sierra Club is going to be working 

3 with our partners and allies to strengthen the 

4 Clean Power Plan. With improvements, we will be 

5 recommending during the comment period -- we 

6 believe the Clean Power Plan can reduce emissions 

7 by up to 40 percent from 2005 levels by 2020, 

8 which is what we believe is needed to safeguard 

9 our children's future.

10 And we'll also be pushing to maximize 

11 renewable energy like wind and solar, and energy 

12 efficiency, and not create incentives for natural 

13 gas and other polluting energy sources.

14 And finally, the Sierra Club is working 

15 with partners to ensure the standard is just, 

16 that the most vulnerable communities have a seat 

17 at the table and are protected by the standards, 

18 and that sufficient resources are made available 

19 to help workers in affected communities make the 

20 transition to the clean energy economy.

21 So once again, thank you for your 

22 commitment, your hard work, and for this 

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1 opportunity to comment.

2 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. Hitt.

3 Okay.

4 MR. MEINSWEISER: Hi. My name is Gregory 

5 Meinweiser. G-r-e-g-o-r-y M-e-i-n-w-e-i-s-e-r. 

6 I'm here, I'm a student from the University of 

7 Tennessee in Knoxville. I'm currently a senior 

8 in nuclear engineering. I'm just kind of here to 

9 help support the nuclear side with the EPA.

10 As you know, I'm sure, nuclear produces 

11 no carbon emissions. It's a very clean way of 

12 producing base-load energy. That's pretty much 

13 it, actually. I just wanted to let you know that 

14 I support reductions in carbon emissions and hope 

15 that you would take nuclear into account into 

16 these things.

17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Meinweiser, 

18 and Mrs. Hitt.

19 Are there questions for either of them?

20 MS. BANISTER: No. Thank you. Thank 

21 you.

22 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both.

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1 [Chorus of "Thank you."]

2 MS. HITT: Can we talk while we're up 

3 here, or is that not allowed?

4 [Laughter.]

5 MR. THOMPSON: It's your five minutes.

6 [Laughter.]

7 MR. THOMPSON: All right. At this time, 

8 I'd like to ask Remy Devoe and David Reynolds to 

9 please come forward.

10 [Pause.] 

11 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen.

12 Starting with Mr. Devoe, could you state 

13 and spell your name for the court reporter, and 

14 then you can begin your testimony?

15 MR. DEVOE: My name's Remy Devoe. R-e-m16 y D-e-v-o-e. I am a student, as well, from the 

17 University of Tennessee. I'm with the American 

18 Nuclear Society. And we have a student chapter 

19 at UT where we're aware of policies like the 

20 EPA's Clean Power Plan. 

21 And we've looked through what's in the 

22 power plan, and we would like to make some 

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1 recommendations for sure.

2 One thing is that I want to thank the EPA 

3 for making this plan, because CO2 emissions, we 

4 have to regulate them. We have ocean 

5 acidification.

6 The global warming, it's a real thing. I 

7 mean, as an engineer, that's something that we 

8 learn about, that you have CO2 in the atmosphere, 

9 and it absorbs heat. And it's just a fact. So 

10 anybody out there saying it's not real -- it's 

11 real.

12 So, thank you for even doing this. It's 

13 probably an uphill battle for the most part.

14 But in terms of nuclear energy, like it's 

15 been said, it's clean, zero CO2 emissions, and 

16 it's a source of energy we've had for the last 40 

17 years or more. And it accounts for 20 percent of 

18 electricity we have today. I mean, you can think 

19 of 10 light bulbs we have in this room, 2 of them 

20 are lit up by a nuclear power plant.

21 And we can thank the engineers who have 

22 come before and who have created this power, and 

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1 we should keep it around.

2 The 6 percent that is noted in the EPA 

3 Clean Power Plan, that -- they say it's because 

4 we have 6 percent at-risk nuclear -- 100 percent 

5 is at risk. All these power plants, they've been 

6 built since the '70s. That means they're going 

7 to shut down at least in the next 20 years.

8 We can't just say, "Okay, we're going to 

9 give 6 percent for these nuclear power plants 

10 we've had for awhile and that are providing a 

11 base load of power."

12 What will happen is we'll end up shutting 

13 them down because of economics or political 

14 pressure. And we'll end up replacing them with 

15 natural gas. And what are we doing? We're 

16 adding CO2. So what I'm telling you is that this 

17 Clean Power Plan, it's going to increase CO2 

18 emissions if we do not do something about the way 

19 we're handling nuclear energy.

20 What I would recommend, instead of making 

21 this such a complicated rule where you only look 

22 at fossil fuels and then add in a little bit of 

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1 renewable for the phase one, or energy 

2 efficiencies, and going from coal to natural gas 

3 combined-cycle -- you just look at the total CO2 

4 emissions per state and the megawatt hours 

5 produced in that state. And just look at that, 

6 and say, "Well, we want to keep the same level" 

7 and not look at just fossil fuels.

8 Because if you look at the equation -- I 

9 mean, I have somewhere over here -- it's pretty 

10 much the equation that says, "Oh, wait. You have 

11 to meet these goals by reducing either your 

12 emissions or increasing energy production from 

13 renewable and nuclear."

14 Since you only give 6 percent to nuclear, 

15 that is a perverse incentive to say, okay, if we 

16 shut down a plant, we're only losing this like 

17 marginal percentage of its megawatt hours. And 

18 if we replace it with natural gas, then you're 

19 adding extra CO2, but you're adding more megawatt 

20 hours. And you could actually achieve your goal 

21 more easily by doing so, which would, in effect, 

22 increase CO2 emissions.

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1 So this way you're looking at the carbon 

2 intensity could actually be used by states to, 

3 you know, meet their goals by shutting down clean 

4 power plants like nuclear and replacing it with 

5 natural gas.

6 And that brings me to another point. 

7 Natural gas, if you look at it over the past six 

8 years, its prices look like something like the 

9 stock market from the past six years. And do we 

10 really want to trust our electricity prices on 

11 something like that?

12 So, natural gas, yes, it's cheap and 

13 plentiful now. But how do we know it's going to 

14 be like that in the next 15 years when this plan 

15 is supposed to be met, that we're supposed to 

16 have our reductions met?

17 So, I think we should really take a step 

18 back. We don't need 70 percent capacity factor 

19 for natural gas. It's been historically a 

20 peaking power that we use for when we need it. 

21 But like in the arctic cyclone, whatever 

22 it's called, we weren't able to get power to 

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1 these communities that needed it most. And with 

2 nuclear there, we had power. We did not have an 

3 issue with supplying places in the Northeast with 

4 nuclear energy.

5 So I think we should really consider the 

6 way that this plan is being implemented. And 

7 I'll submit a formal comment with all of the 

8 things that I would like to see done and changed. 

9 But otherwise, you guys are doing great.

10 Thank you so much for having me here. 

11 And go balls!

12 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Devoe. And 

13 you answered the question I was going to ask 

14 about submitting comments.

15 All right. Mr. Reynolds.

16 DR. REYNOLDS: Yeah, it's Dr. Reynolds. 

17 I'm a retired community pediatrician and 

18 neonatologist and had a chance to work in the 

19 areas of public health for -- you know, I wish 

20 you'd change it from "public health" to "the 

21 public's health."

22 That's what it really is, and more of us 

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1 could become more interested in trying to get 

2 something done in that whole big area, which 

3 ya'll are certainly doing in your livelihoods and 

4 being here today. It's critically important.

5 It's hard to imagine anybody could not 

6 understand the importance of the dangerousness of 

7 air pollution. And of those elements, the one 

8 that's dangerous in the most is carbon dioxide 

9 and the global warming. Of course, methane as 

10 well. We've got to do something to reduce those 

11 injuries. 

12 And one of the important things is to 

13 teach the community that it's injurious. It's 

14 amazing to me in Birmingham, at least, how many 

15 people still don't really think about this issue 

16 as something that's important to them. It's 

17 like, it's so big, what can they possibly do? 

18 Well, what we can all do and should do, 

19 of course, is teach this within our families, by 

20 example and by instruction to our children. 

21 It also should be done at the community 

22 level, in which we can get people motivated, 

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1 interested, learn and motivated to try to get 

2 something done at the public level, because 

3 that's where most of this is taking place.

4 And then finally at the governments, all 

5 the way from the cities up to the national --

6 involves you people to think about how we can 

7 change those things in a positive way.

8 Let's see. Let me turn the page here.

9 [Pause.]

10 DR. REYNOLDS: I'm sorry I have to write 

11 things down, but I still do after all these 

12 years.

13 MR. THOMPSON: Oh, that's fine.

14 DR. REYNOLDS: I have to have them in 

15 writing to be able to make them work well for me. 

16 Hold on just one second.

17 He gave a great left-brain talk. This is 

18 right-brain exclusively because it has to come 

19 from the heart for us to get the job done. So I 

20 don't really have any data to present. You 

21 people know that data anyway.

22 But we must -- let me tell you this about 

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1 children. Probably you all probably know it. 

2 But it's so true. That they are in such danger 

3 of air pollution of all the different kinds, 

4 especially the CO2 and global warming, because 

5 they are developing -- their organs are 

6 developing. And the organs that get hurt at that 

7 time in developing oftentimes do not fully 

8 recover for the rest of their lives.

9 They are outside a lot. And when they're 

10 outside, they're exercising. They're breathing a 

11 lot more. And when they're inside and resting, 

12 they breathe more air in. So children are at 

13 very great risk. And they have no real advocates 

14 to get the job done for them like adults do, who 

15 can move people with whatever it is. Money 

16 primarily does the moving.

17 When we start assessing -- it won't be 

18 long, we'll start assessing the injury from 

19 global warming, especially the gases that harm 

20 our lungs and our hearts. We must start with 

21 assessment, the smallest available administrative 

22 unit that we can get to to assess the health 

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1 there versus their surrounding areas, et cetera. 

2 That's so critically important.

3 And being aware of the vulnerability 

4 factors, I know you folks know them. And 

5 probably most folks out here do, too. But it is 

6 advancing age, certainly is there, any sort of 

7 physical debility that you have.

8 The most important by far is poverty. 

9 Nothing comes close to poverty as being important 

10 for getting, you know, injury here. And they 

11 have the least folks to speak for them, in 

12 general, too. And then air conditioning, lack 

13 thereof, all those things are important.

14 Let's see. Finally, I want to close with 

15 this. Again, it's nearly all right-brain, except 

16 the American Indians function so well in right17 brain, and left-brain kind of conclusions about 

18 what they want to do in their circumstances with 

19 the earth.

20 And another who might as well have been 

21 was Albert Einstein. They asked Albert one time, 

22 "What do you think of the environment? What does 

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1 that mean?" He said, "Anything that's not me is 

2 the environment." And by golly, if we could 

3 adopt that as our posture, to live that way, and 

4 then live on it in a daily existence in a way 

5 that could be kind and good for this earth, we 

6 could do ourselves remarkably better than 

7 currently.

8 And the major way we can do that, in my 

9 opinion -- I'm not speaking for anybody except me 

10 here -- is by getting away from monetary 

11 fixation. Till we do that, it's going to be very 

12 difficult for us to move in directions, 

13 especially in areas like this, if you're going to 

14 get things done the way we'd like them to be 

15 done.

16 The Native Americans apparently had some 

17 wonderful things to say about that when they made 

18 the statement that we don't inherit the land from 

19 our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. 

20 Amen to that.

21 And I'd be delighted to answer any 

22 questions that ya'll might have. I doubt if 

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1 you'd have very many.

2 [Laughter.]

3 DR. REYNOLDS: I'm delighted to be here.

4 MR. THOMPSON: Well, first, thank you for 

5 your testimony, Dr. Reynolds. And before you go, 

6 could you state and spell your full name for the 

7 court reporter so we can get this on record?

8 DR. REYNOLDS: D-a-v-i-d, David, R-e-y-n9 o-l-d-s, Reynolds, M.D.

10 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you.

11 And with that, are there any questions 

12 for Dr. Reynolds or Mr. Devoe?

13 Beverly?

14 MS. BANISTER: I just have one for you.

15 MR. DEVOE: Sure.

16 MS. BANISTER: In regards to, you were 

17 talking about the incentives for really, I guess, 

18 going further, with the nuclear option related to 

19 the building block. And so I would just 

20 encourage you to submit your comments and your 

21 recommendations.

22 MR. DEVOE: Sure. It's a complex issue. 

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1 Yeah.

2 MS. BANISTER: As it relates to 

3 incentives and as it relates to how we might 

4 further that particular building block.

5 MR. DEVOE: Okay. Thank you.

6 MR. THOMPSON: I concur.

7 Well, thank you both for your testimony. 

8 Thank you very much.

9 [Pause.]

10 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. I'd like to now 

11 invite Larry Warthen and John Castellaw to please 

12 come forward.

13 [Pause.] 

14 MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 

15 Thank you for coming.

16 Starting with Mr. Warthen.

17 MR. WARTHEN: My name is Larry Warthen. 

18 That's L-a-r-r-y W-a-r-t-h-e-n.

19 I would like to thank the EPA for 

20 allowing me this opportunity to speak in 

21 agreement of the proposed carbon rule. I'm 

22 President of FACE, the Fall-line Alliance for a 

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1 Cleaner Environment.

2 I'm a member and steward of Minton Spring 

3 AME Church. I'm a lifelong resident of 

4 Washington County, Warthen, Georgia. I have five 

5 grandchildren, two of which have asthma, which 

6 causes them to have to take breathing treatment 

7 from time to time.

8 Power plants account for 40 percent of 

9 the carbon pollution in the United States. Right 

10 now, we limit mercury, arsenic, lead, soot, and 

11 other dangerous polluters from power from coal12 burning power plants. Please let's do the same 

13 for carbon pollution, the key driver and climate 

14 disruption and a contributing factor for asthma 

15 and other respiratory illnesses.

16 No child should have limited access to 

17 enjoying the great outdoors or just doing the 

18 things that normal kids do, without the help of 

19 an inhaler or breathing treatments.

20 EPA, please protect my grandchildren, my 

21 family, my community. Protect America's air 

22 quality. As we move into this new millennium, I 

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1 ask you, the EPA, to do your part and make this 

2 United States of America a leader in reducing the 

3 amount of carbon that pollute our skies every 

4 day, that contribute to global warming.

5 The Clean Power Plan will prevent up to 

6 150,000 asthma attacks and 6,600 premature deaths 

7 annually by 2030, while slashing the carbon 

8 pollution from power plants fueling climate 

9 change.

10 For climate change is real and will 

11 affect all of us in a negative way. There are no 

12 more 100-year storms. They happen monthly and 

13 cause great devastation.

14 Please help to do your part to make this 

15 world a better place for generations to come. I 

16 brought my grandchildren with me today so that, 

17 hopefully, by them hearing me, it will be an 

18 inspiration to them and to others that have 

19 children that suffer from asthma.

20 Thank you.

21 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. And thank you, 

22 and what a remarkable example you've set for your 

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1 grandchildren. Thank you for your testimony.

2 If you could please state your name and 

3 spell it for the court reporter, and begin your 

4 testimony.

5 LT GEN CASTELLAW: Yes, sir. I'm John 

6 Castellaw, C-a-s-t-e-l-l-a-w. I'm a retired 

7 Lieutenant General from the Marine Corps.

8 Thank you for the opportunity to talk 

9 here today. I appreciate what you're doing in 

10 being here so that people like the gallant man 

11 next to me can make his comments from the heart. 

12 And I appreciate very much what you said.

13 And I'm here today because I am concerned 

14 with climate change's impact on our national 

15 security. And I think that the rule here -- I'm 

16 not an expert on the specific regulatory matters, 

17 but we need to make meaningful efforts to reduce 

18 the footprint that causes climate change.

19 My more than three-and-a-half decades as 

20 a marine taught me that we cannot wait to address 

21 looming threats until we have absolute certainty. 

22 A major part of my service was during the Bush 

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1 administration when I had the opportunity to hear 

2 Vice President Cheney on several occasions. And 

3 in 2001, he made the statement, "If there is a 1 

4 percent chance that a terrorist will get a weapon 

5 of mass destruction, we should act."

6 Today, 99 percent of the scientific 

7 papers say that global -- that climate change is 

8 a threat. And so we should act. For too long, 

9 we have failed to address the challenges of 

10 climate change. But our armed forces have seen 

11 the risks and, responding to their sacred 

12 obligation to protect our citizens, are already 

13 acting to address the very real threats posed by 

14 climate change.

15 The military understands that we must be 

16 ready to conduct missions in a rapidly changing 

17 operational environment, while we manage the new 

18 risks posed by climate change.

19 The senior leaders of our armed forces 

20 increasingly realize the true nature of this 

21 threat, not because the military suddenly decided 

22 that we want to save the environment, but rather 

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1 because the military sees that climate change 

2 presents clear dangers to our national security, 

3 with three distinct challenges.

4 The first challenge is that global --

5 that climate change is a global threat 

6 multiplier. That means it will make already 

7 existing threats like political instability, 

8 ethnic tensions, food insecurity, or poverty 

9 worse and more dangerous.

10 Specific threats to security vary around 

11 the world depending on both the climate and on 

12 the society. For example, in places like sub13 Saharan Africa or the Middle East, the problem is 

14 likely to be too little water. Already marginal 

15 agricultural land like the Sahel could become 

16 incapable of feeding the people living there, 

17 causing them to migrate, and then that migration 

18 come in conflict with other people that are 

19 already in those other areas.

20 The effects of climate change around the 

21 world will cause resources like food, water, and 

22 energy to become more scarce as the effects of 

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1 climate change worsen. States will seek to 

2 secure resources for their own populations at the 

3 expense of their neighbors. While conflict is 

4 not inevitable, it becomes increasingly possible.

5 I can remember being in the Middle East 

6 along the Jordan River, and I remember from my 

7 Sunday school days a picture of a wide Jordan 

8 River with people getting dunked in it. When I 

9 got to the Jordan River, you could walk across it 

10 without getting wet. And you think about the 

11 tensions that already exist in those areas. And 

12 when we have change in the weather patterns and 

13 rainfall, how it can aggravate the situation.

14 This is not just the future we're talking 

15 about, but also the present. We all remember the 

16 terrible typhoon that occurred in the Philippines 

17 and that the requirement for the George 

18 Washington battle group in the Third Marine 

19 Brigade to go down and give comfort to those that 

20 were in need, saving until the last.

21 The second challenge is climate change 

22 will affect homeland security. We already have 

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1 seen the impact Sandy had and the requirements 

2 for our active duty and National Guard troops to 

3 respond in New York and New Jersey.

4 Defense support to civil authority is a 

5 growing mission for our military, for our active 

6 duty troops provide logistic and humanitarian 

7 relief, as well as law enforcement support to 

8 civilian authorities. These types of operations 

9 are growing as extreme weather events increase.

10 You don't have to go to the Arctic to see 

11 climate change occurring. As a farmer, I see it 

12 happening here in the South. And you can look at 

13 the pages of such magazines as the Progressive 

14 Farmer to see articles where they talk about how 

15 we need to develop seed that is drought resistant 

16 and at the same time moisture resistant, because 

17 during the same year you can have too much and 

18 too little rain.

19 Also, temperatures -- all these are 

20 causing us to try to develop ways in agriculture 

21 to deal with it. And it puts at hazard, 

22 particularly in our region, billions of dollars 

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1 and thousands of jobs that we need in the 

2 economic area of our rural communities.

3 Third, climate change is a threat to our 

4 military bases at home and around the world. The 

5 United States military manages property in all 50 

6 states -- $600 billion here in the states and 

7 around the world. And we need to make sure that, 

8 as the ocean levels rise, that we manage the 

9 risks associated with that, and at the same time 

10 reducing what's causing it.

11 For those that question science, I would 

12 say that reducing greenhouse gases while 

13 implementing measures to adapt to the effects of 

14 climate change is basic risk management. 

15 Military planners routinely operate under an 

16 uncertainty and make decisions based on 

17 incomplete information.

18 It is important that we take immediate 

19 positive actions to reduce greenhouse gases as an 

20 important step in addressing the challenges of 

21 climate change.

22 Thank you for the opportunity.

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1 MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely. Thank you for 

2 your testimony.

3 Gentlemen, before you leave --

4 Are there any questions?

5 [No audible response.] 

6 MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you both very 

7 much.

8 LT GEN CASTELLAW: And thank you all for 

9 the opportunity to be here.

10 MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely.

11 Okay. At this time, I'd like to invite 

12 Michael Harden and Lynn Ringenberg to please come 

13 forward.

14 [Pause.] 

15 MR. THOMPSON: So, hello again. I'd like 

16 to get started with you, Mr. Harden.

17 Could you pronounce and spell your name 

18 for the court reporter?

19 MR. HARDEN: Sure. It's Michael Harden, 

20 M-i-c-h-a-e-l H-a-r-d-e-n.

21 I'd like to thank you all for the 

22 opportunity to speak today. My name is Michael 

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1 Harden, and I am the State Director for the 

2 Georgia Chapter for Americans for Prosperity, the 

3 nation's largest free market advocacy group, with 

4 more than 2 million activists nationwide and more 

5 than 60,000 activists in Georgia.

6 AFP is committed to promoting energy 

7 policies that provide affordability and 

8 reliability for all Americans. I'm here to talk 

9 about the controversial proposed Obama 

10 administration rule requiring states to reduce 

11 their carbon emissions by 30 percent of 2005 

12 levels.

13 Although, overall, the reduction is 30 

14 percent by 2030, the EPA set unequal reductions 

15 across the states, with this misguided new 

16 mandate falling more heavily on some states who 

17 will be forced to comply with even more draconian 

18 limits.

19 Our state will face one of the largest 

20 reductions in carbon emissions, 44 percent of 

21 2012 levels, which will be a huge impact on 

22 Georgia businesses and working families in terms 

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1 of energy affordability, job creation, and 

2 economic growth.

3 These new rules would require energy 

4 producers to buy expensive retrofitting equipment 

5 and pose expensive new fuel switching and-or 

6 green energy mandates, or by shutting down plants 

7 entirely, the cost of which will inevitably pass 

8 on to energy consumers in the form of higher 

9 rates.

10 Currently, Georgia has nine coal-powered 

11 plants that generate one-third of their 

12 electricity from coal. It ranks 14th among the 

13 states in terms of coal use. Coal and natural 

14 gas remain the most cost-effective and reliable 

15 options for electricity generation in the state, 

16 and their widespread use helps contribute to 

17 Georgia's below-average electricity prices.

18 This is a pocketbook issue. Federal 

19 micromanaging of Georgia's electricity generation 

20 portfolio will invariably cause electricity 

21 prices to rise, and higher electricity bills are 

22 bad news for struggling Georgia families, and the 

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1 most vulnerable families will be the hardest hit.

2 The median Georgia family already spends 

3 roughly $1,800 of their disposable income on 

4 residential energy alone. With these 

5 regulations, costs will increase significantly, 

6 leaving Georgians with less money in their 

7 pockets for essentials such as health care and 

8 groceries.

9 Even worse, higher energy prices 

10 disproportionately affect those who can least 

11 afford it, those who are struggling in this down 

12 economy. Those earning between 10 and 30,000 per 

13 year will, on average, spend almost 10 percent of 

14 their disposable income on residential energy 

15 needs.

16 Because such a significant portion of 

17 Georgia electricity comes from coal, the EPA 

18 regulations would have an overwhelming negative 

19 impact on jobs in the Georgia economy, with 

20 ramifications reaching well beyond the 19,500 

21 employed in the utility sector.

22 The relatively cheap energy prices have 

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1 been essential to growing the Georgia 

2 manufacturing industry. Companies such as 

3 Caterpillar, Shaw, and Mohawk industries have all 

4 expanded in recent years, bringing in more than 

5 16,000 jobs and 1 billion in investments to 

6 Georgia.

7 According to Roy Bowen of the Georgia 

8 Association of Manufacturers, this growth has 

9 been, quote, "driven by the advantage that we are 

10 seeing come to us in the terms of energy prices," 

11 unquote. This advantage currently held by 

12 Georgia would virtually disappear with these new 

13 EPA regulations, and with it billions of dollars 

14 in economic activity and thousands of Georgia 

15 jobs each year.

16 More directly, forcing the closure of 

17 coal plants would have a significant impact on 

18 the communities in which they operate.

19 One coal plant, in Coosa, a plant which 

20 would be forced to close under the new EPA rules, 

21 operates in Floyd County, where it is responsible 

22 for 10 percent of the local tax revenue. Closing 

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1 this plant would be devastating to the community, 

2 with an unemployment rate of 7.9 percent and a 

3 poverty rate that is already 20 percent.

4 These new rules would have a secondary 

5 impact on businesses elsewhere in the economy. 

6 Even if businesses' energy demands remain 

7 constant, the price to produce their goods and 

8 services will increase. Any increase in business 

9 costs means fewer resources to hire new employees 

10 or expand their production. This leads to slower 

11 economic growth and fewer jobs, as valuable 

12 resources are diverted to pay the energy bill.

13 The proposed EPA regulations on CO2 will 

14 have a devastating effect on the Georgia economy 

15 and its residents. Given the high cost to 

16 Georgians and America at large, AFE strongly 

17 supports preventing the implementation of these 

18 regulations. 

19 Thank you all for your time.

20 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your

21 testimony.

22 Mrs. Ringenberg?

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1 DR. RINGENBERG: Good afternoon. My name 

2 is Lynn, L-y-n-n, last name Ringenberg, R-i-n-g3 e-n-b-e-r-g. I'm an Emeritus Professor of 

4 Pediatrics at the University of South Florida in 

5 Tampa. I'm also the President of the Florida

6 chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility, 

7 and the President-elect of the national chapter 

8 of PSR in Washington, D.C.

9 For those that don't know, PSR is an 

10 organization of health professionals dealing with 

11 issues that pose the gravest threats to human 

12 health and survival. And those two, we feel, are 

13 climate change and nuclear weapons war. We 

14 shared the Nobel Peace Price in 1985 for our 

15 nuclear work.

16 I want to thank the EPA for giving me the 

17 opportunity to speak this afternoon. I've 

18 practiced medicine for close to 35 years in the 

19 Tampa Bay area. I'm also a retired military 

20 colonel, and so spent a significant amount of 

21 time in the military, as well. And I've really 

22 witnessed over this 35 years a worrisome decline 

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1 in the health of our children.

2 Every day that I practice -- and although 

3 I'm retired, I still practice and cover practices 

4 in town -- I see children struggling to breathe 

5 due to asthma which is exacerbated by carbon 

6 pollution. And young children -- and I mean 

7 young, nine months, eighteen months -- that are 

8 taking three or four different types of 

9 medication just to control their asthma symptoms.

10 These kids are literally tethered to 

11 their nebulizers or breathing machines four to 

12 six or more times a day. We're still seeing 

13 entirely too many children, especially kids under 

14 the age of five, die from asthma.

15 The quality of life of these children and 

16 their families is significantly impacted in a 

17 negative way by carbon pollution. You know, kids 

18 ought to be out running and playing and having 

19 fun. Kids deserve the right to have clean air to 

20 breathe, as we all do.

21 I wear this white coat today to symbolize 

22 -- not that I just came from work --

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1 [Laughter.]

2 DR. RINGENBERG: -- but to symbolize a 

3 profession that I believe has an obligation to 

4 speak out against those who damage public health.

5 We need to be the voice for those who 

6 cannot speak for themselves. The fetus in utero 

7 growing to full term, infants, children, the 

8 elderly, those with disabilities, chronic health 

9 problems, and minority populations, to include 

10 the homeless, who really receive the blunt of 

11 coal-fired power plant pollution.

12 There's really a toxic slew of air 

13 pollutants in coal smoke. But the major one 

14 causing so many adverse health problems like 

15 COPD, heart damage, asthma, et cetera, is carbon, 

16 which we all know is the key driver of climate 

17 change.

18 Forty percent of the carbon pollution in 

19 the United States comes from coal-fired power 

20 plants, many of these very dirty. Many of the 

21 ones of the 15 in Florida where I live are very 

22 old and dirty.

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1 There is no such thing as clean coal. We 

2 should stop smoking coal. We should stop 

3 shipping coal. And we should just leave it in 

4 the ground.

5 Climate change affects health by 

6 increasing temperatures, causing heat waves which 

7 can lead to dehydration, heat strokes, and death, 

8 especially in young children, those with chronic 

9 health problems, and the elderly. There have 

10 been tens of thousands of people in Russia, 

11 Europe, and the United States that have died from 

12 heat stroke in the last 10 years.

13 As temperatures rise, more populations 

14 are exposed to disease-bearing insects like Lyme 

15 disease, malaria; extreme weather events and 

16 water contamination; flooding; water-borne 

17 disease; and an increase in wildfires causing 

18 smoke and particulate matter inhalation, which 

19 aggravates asthma and other pulmonary conditions, 

20 causes an increase in cardiac deaths and stroke.

21 I want to add just very, very quickly --

22 it wasn't in my regular comments because it just 

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1 came in last night. It was published in the last 

2 several days. It's a report from the National 

3 Academy of Science that I just downloaded last 

4 night late, that there are eight U.S. cities, and 

5 of those eight, two are in Florida -- Tampa Bay, 

6 Tampa, and St. Pete, and Miami -- that rank among 

7 the world's 20 top for potential average annual 

8 losses from coastal flooding.

9 And of those eight cities, Miami, New 

10 York, Newark, New Orleans, Tampa, Boston, 

11 Philadelphia, Virginia Beach, and Baltimore -- so 

12 out of the 20 top in the world, we have eight of 

13 them. And with that flooding is going to cause a 

14 lot, a lot of health issues.

15 Again, food production is also vulnerable 

16 to climate change, with increasing drought and 

17 risk of famine and conflict of war.

18 And in closing, I mean, everybody in this 

19 room is a mom or a dad, a grandparent, an aunt, 

20 an uncle, or at a minimum, you know a kid, right? 

21 A friend's kid, a colleague's kid, a neighbor's 

22 kid. And I think that we are all connected 

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1 heart-to-heart by our common humanity to care for 

2 the collective children.

3 And we can leave no greater legacy to our 

4 children, our grandchildren, and the generations 

5 that follow than to leave a healthy carbon6 pollution-free planet.

7 It is imperative that we set the stage 

8 now for this lifesaving journey through 

9 implementing a strong Clean Power Plan that will 

10 protect public health and drive innovation in 

11 clean energy sources like solar, wind, 

12 efficiency, and will power the twenty-first 

13 century and beyond, grow our economies, and 

14 create good jobs.

15 Again, I thank the EPA for taking this 

16 bold step. And this is one of the most promising 

17 health-protective climate proposals in years. 

18 Thank you.

19 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mrs. 

20 Ringenberg.

21 Are there any questions for Mr. Harden or 

22 Mrs. Ringenberg?

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1 [No audible response.] 

2 MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, thank you 

3 both very much for your testimony.

4 [Chorus of "Thank you."]

5 MR. THOMPSON: Absolutely. Thanks.

6 [Pause.]

7 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, we're 

8 going to take a lunch break until one o'clock. 

9 Before you go, though, just so you know, I have 

10 up next here Leslie Agron and Joe Reynolds. Are 

11 you guys going to be able to hang around until 

12 one o'clock?

13 Okay. All right. Well, you're up next 

14 in Room B, okay, after lunch.

15 All right. We'll reconvene here at 1:00 

16 p.m. Thank you very much.

17 [Recess taken from 11:06 a.m. to 1:00 

18 p.m.]

19 AFTERNOON SESSION

20 PANEL NUMBER 2

21 MS. KEMKER: All right. My name is Carol 

22 Kemker. I'm with EPA Region 4. I'm the Deputy 

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1 Air Division Director here for the Southeast. 

2 And I'm one of the chairs of today's public 

3 hearing.

4 Thank you all for coming.

5 Joining me on the panel this afternoon 

6 are Jeb Stenhouse. He's an Air Program Manager 

7 with our Headquarters Office of Air and 

8 Radiation, and is part of the Rural Writing Team.

9 I'm also joined by Gregg Worley, who is 

10 an Air Program Manager here in Region 4, who 

11 works on a number of the air quality issues for 

12 the Southeast with us.

13 We are here today to listen to your 

14 comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 

15 pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 

16 of these proposed rules on June 2nd of this year, 

17 2014.

18 Power plants are the largest source of 

19 carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 

20 roughly one-third of all domestic greenhouse gas 

21 emissions. The first rule is EPA's proposed 

22 Clean Power Plan for existing power plants. This 

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1 proposal consists of two main parts: state2 specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 

3 power plants, and guidelines to help states 

4 develop their plans for meeting the goals.

5 This proposal gives states flexibility in 

6 determining how to meet their goals. States will 

7 choose what goes into their plans that show how 

8 they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 

9 their goals by 2030.

10 The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 

11 address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 

12 and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 

13 set emission limits for two groups of power 

14 plants: those that make physical or operational 

15 changes that increase the plant's maximum 

16 achievable hourly rate of emissions; and those 

17 that replace components to such an extent that 

18 the new components exceed 50 percent of the 

19 capital cost of an entirely new comparable 

20 facility.

21 If you would like more details on either 

22 of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 

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1 available near the registration desk.

2 Today's hearing is one of four public 

3 hearings across the country this week on the two 

4 proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 

5 in each of the hearings, and I'd like to thank 

6 you for taking time out of your day to join us 

7 and share your comments.

8 We have a lot of people signed up to 

9 speak today, and we want to hear from all of 

10 them. So, before we get started, I'd like to go 

11 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 

12 that will help make today's hearing run smoothly.

13 First, please be sure you have checked in 

14 at the registration desk even if you are not 

15 planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 

16 speak online or by phone, but haven't told us 

17 that you're here, please step out to the 

18 registration desk and let the EPA staff know 

19 there at the registration desk that you have 

20 arrived.

21 Second, if you are a speaker, you were 

22 given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 

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1 or Room B. This is Room B. Are you in the right 

2 room? If not, this is a good time to switch.

3 All right. Here's how today's hearing 

4 will work. I will call speakers up in pairs. 

5 When your name is called, please come to the 

6 table at the front of the room. 

7 When I call on you to speak, please state 

8 your name, and spell it for the court reporter. 

9 Your comments will be transcribed and included in 

10 the record of comments on the proposed rule. 

11 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

12 give comments. We have a light to help you know 

13 how much time you have left to speak. When the 

14 light turns from green to yellow, that you means 

15 you have one minute remaining. When it turns 

16 red, that's a signal to wrap up your testimony. 

17 The light will flash red and beep when you have 

18 spoken for five minutes and it's time to stop.

19 When you're finished speaking, please 

20 remain at the table until the person next to you 

21 has completed his or her testimony.

22 We are here to listen to you today. 

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1 However, a panel member may ask you questions to 

2 clarify your comments. I will then call up the 

3 next pair of speakers, and so on.

4 If you've brought a written copy of your 

5 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 

6 registration desk before you leave today.

7 Because of the large number of people who 

8 have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 

9 everyone, we're going to have to strictly enforce 

10 the five-minute limit.

11 If you have additional comments you would 

12 like to make, you can submit them in writing. 

13 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as much 

14 consideration to comments we receive in writing 

15 as we do to comments we receive at public 

16 hearings like this one. So, if you have more 

17 that you would like to say, please submit it. 

18 Your comments will be reviewed.

19 There is still plenty of time to get 

20 written comments in, and there are comment cards 

21 available at the registration desk. Comments 

22 must be received by October 16th, 2014.

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1 We will put any written comments 

2 submitted today in the official docket for the 

3 proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 

4 written comments in other ways are available at 

5 the materials table near the registration desk.

6 We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 

7 tonight. And we've taken a lunch break, and we 

8 will take a dinner break so everyone can get 

9 something to eat and be fresh to hear your 

10 comments. The dinner break is scheduled for five 

11 o'clock. In addition, we may take occasional 

12 short breaks throughout the day as needed. We'll 

13 keep you posted as the day goes on.

14 If you have any questions during the day, 

15 please see the staff at the registration desk, 

16 and someone will try to help you.

17 Finally, I want to ask that each of you 

18 to please be respectful of everyone who speaks 

19 today. We have people with a wide variety of 

20 views in the audience, and we want to hear from 

21 all of you. So we can do that and to be fair to 

22 everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly. 

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1 Even applause can slow things down, and we want 

2 to hear from everyone who has signed up to speak.

3 So, thank you again for taking the time 

4 to share your comments on the EPA's proposed 

5 rules. Now let's get started.

6 Our first speakers will be Daniel 

7 Tenpenny and Richard Hertzberg.

8 [Pause.]

9 MR. TENPENNY: Hello, everyone. My name 

10 is Daniel Tenpenny. D-a-n-i-e-l T-e-n-p-e-n-n-y. 

11 And I am a student at the University of Tennessee 

12 in Knoxville and a senior representative in the 

13 student chapter of the American Nuclear Society.

14 As a student at the University of 

15 Tennessee majoring in nuclear engineering, I 

16 spent the last four years learning just how much 

17 of a benefit nuclear power is to both this 

18 country's utilities and its economy. I spent the 

19 last four years learning how safe the nuclear 

20 industry is and the regulations they have to go 

21 through to operate.

22 I've learned that, in order to achieve 

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1 the cleanest, most efficient green energy, 

2 nuclear power is the only obtainable option.

3 The Clean Air Act's goal is to reduce the 

4 pounds of CO2 produced for total megawatt 

5 produced -- a goal of which I approve very 

6 thoroughly.

7 However, when nuclear power is mentioned 

8 within the equation provided with the state 

9 emission rate post block 4 on page 18, to reach 

10 the reduced value, the nuclear power only 

11 receives 6 percent of its value, meaning that 

12 utility companies can only include 6 percent of 

13 its nuclear power plants toward meeting its new 

14 reduced value from the EPA.

15 This makes a statement that 94 percent of 

16 the current nuclear power is not important. But 

17 only the at-risk facilities or the new facilities 

18 under construction are important. To put this in 

19 perspective, the two plants that Georgia is 

20 working on currently will receive no credit 

21 towards the EPA's plan to reduce carbon 

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1 producing electricity.

2 Georgia has gone above and beyond to 

3 create cleaner energy with these projects, and 

4 this method gives no incentive to consider the 

5 cleanest, no-carbon-emitting power source.

6 A part of what I do in school as a 

7 nuclear engineering major is to manipulate and 

8 derive equations to achieve a desired value. So, 

9 let me tell you when I say that sometimes that's 

10 to see the lowest grade I can get -- decent grade 

11 on the test -- to get a good grade in the class.

12 But, so believe me when I say that how 

13 this document is worded, given the math, will 

14 give utility companies an incentive to replace 

15 the nuclear plants with natural gas plants or 

16 other fossil-fuel-burning plants, thus raising 

17 the carbon emission, but lowering their pounds of 

18 CO2 per megawatt, based on this equation.

19 But, in conclusion, I suggest that the 

20 EPA amend their proposal to give incentives to 

21 keep or build nuclear power plants by giving them 

22 the full value they deserve, not only as a source 

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1 of reliable long-term energy, but the main source 

2 of carbon-free energy in this country.

3 Thank you very much, and in true 

4 Tennessee fashion, go balls!

5 MS. KEMKER: Do we have any questions?

6 [No audible response.]

7 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

8 Our other speaker?

9 MR. HERTZBERG: Are you ready? Okay.

10 MS. KEMKER: Yes.

11 MR. HERTZBERG: Richard Hertzberg, R-i-c12 h-a-r-d H-e-r-t-z-b-e-r-g.

13 Thank you for this opportunity to speak 

14 today. The editor in our Atlanta Journal15 Constitution claimed that the EPA carbon rule and 

16 purported benefits are, quote, "based on flawed 

17 science," end quote.

18 That is an easy claim to make because 

19 nearly all science has some flaw, some facet 

20 where we wish we knew more. But the writer's 

21 conclusions about the application of the carbon 

22 rule and its benefits are absurdly wrong.

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1 Instead of countering those arguments, I 

2 want to add to EPA's statements of why we need 

3 action now.

4 I am a private consultant in 

5 biomathematics and an adjunct professor in 

6 environmental health in Emory University, where I 

7 teach environmental health risk assessment. One 

8 of my classroom goals is to involve real 

9 environmental scenarios with real populations. 

10 In so doing, we address cumulative risk. That's 

11 the risk from the combination of all the 

12 contaminants and stressors that we encounter, at 

13 the same time.

14 Why is that important to the support of 

15 the carbon rule? In the latest U.S. National 

16 Climate Assessment report, it says, quote, 

17 "Climate change is increasing the risks of heat 

18 stress, respiratory stress from poor air quality, 

19 and the spread of waterborne diseases." 

20 Elsewhere, it states, "heat waves are also 

21 associated with increased hospital admissions for 

22 cardiovascular, kidney, and respiratory 

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1 disorders."

2 EPA Administrator McCarthy, on EPA's 

3 website, says, "One in ten children have asthma." 

4 But in recent studies in some major cities, 

5 including the Oakland area and Detroit, they 

6 found about one in three children were on asthma 

7 medication -- one in three.

8 EPA estimates how many asthma attacks and 

9 premature deaths would be avoided by the required 

10 cuts in traditional air pollutants. Where EPA 

11 could go further when discussing the health 

12 benefits is to consider not just the separate 

13 risks, but the cumulative impact of all the 

14 stressors together.

15 My research specialty is toxic 

16 interactions, synergy and antagonism among 

17 chemicals. Of most concern for public health is 

18 synergy, where the combination of exposure is 

19 significantly more toxic than some of the 

20 individual exposures or risks would predict.

21 So, yes, we have regulations on ozone, 

22 and on particulate matter, PM's, and on many 

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1 other contaminants in air. And we worry about 

2 effects of air pollution and heat waves on 

3 children. But our concerns should be much 

4 greater because of the combination effect of 

5 these stressors.

6 Is there any such evidence? When 

7 evaluating health impacts of climate change, some 

8 studies estimate the increase in ozone and its 

9 consequences on acute asthma attacks, or how many 

10 die from heat waves, or the impacts of 

11 particulate matter on several disease rates.

12 I am concerned that the EPA's estimates 

13 of health benefits from the carbon rule are 

14 similarly based upon evaluations of each 

15 pollutant or condition by itself. That can and 

16 should change.

17 Some very fine epidemiology studies over 

18 the past 10 years, here and in Europe, looked at 

19 the health consequences of air pollution in 

20 combination with heat waves. Famous epidemiology 

21 studies over 50 years ago, such as those in 

22 cigarette smoke, controlled for those other 

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1 factors, so to identify the contribution from one 

2 pollutant of interest, such as cigarette smoke.

3 But that single pollutant risk estimate 

4 does not represent a real exposure. In welcome 

5 contrast, these recent studies looked at the 

6 composite exposure conditions, real exposures to 

7 ozones, PM's, and heat waves altogether. They 

8 found significantly increased risks from the 

9 combination for acute asthma and for early 

10 mortality.

11 But the situation gets worse. Another 

12 study in air pollution and asthma shows synergy 

13 with psychological stress from neighborhood 

14 violence. And where are our many regions with 

15 high neighborhood violence? Large cities. We 

16 have thus identified a highly vulnerable 

17 population and one of considerable size.

18 The science of toxic interactions is 

19 complex, expensive, and difficult to quantify --

20 one main reason why so few regulations 

21 incorporate interactions. While we know much 

22 about mechanisms for high temperatures enhancing 

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1 particulate matter toxicity, and for PM's 

2 enhancing ozone toxicity, we have not modeled the 

3 three-way interaction nor the four-way 

4 combination that includes stress.

5 But these interaction effects have been 

6 documented and are already occurring to 

7 vulnerable populations, including the children 

8 and the elderly. We see these exacerbated 

9 effects in asthma visits at emergency rooms and 

10 in increased mortality. These are not minor 

11 annoyances, but serious health conditions.

12 So, should EPA delay inclusion of 

13 interactions because we do not have the 

14 mathematical dose-response model? No. As stated 

15 in EPA's own guidance for chemical mixtures risk 

16 assessment, "Even when only subjective 

17 information exists on the combination of effects, 

18 these joint effects must still be characterized 

19 to the extent possible and reflected in the risk 

20 assessment."

21 In summary, EPA is doing precisely what 

22 is needed with its carbon rule, by acting now. 

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1 Do not wait until all the desired mechanistic 

2 understanding and dose-response modeling have 

3 been accomplished. The interaction evidence is 

4 strong. The health impacts are here today. So 

5 we need action today. 

6 Thank you for your attention.

7 MS. KEMKER: I do have a clarifying 

8 question. You quoted some studies where reported 

9 ozone, PM, and heat wave studied the results of 

10 those combinations. Will you be providing in 

11 written comments the citation for those studies?

12 MR. HERTZBERG: Yes, I will.

13 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

14 MR. HERTZBERG: And I can include the 

15 PDF's in my email.

16 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

17 MR. HERTZBERG: Yes. I would say that 

18 there's a project called Euroheat. H-E-A-T is an 

19 acronym, actually. But it's a nice combined 

20 acronym of Euroheat that looked at several 

21 populations in Europe with that combination. 

22 That's a good place to start.

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1 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

2 Our next speakers will be Leslie Agron 

3 and Jacquelyn Carter.

4 [Pause.]

5 MS. KEMKER: Sir, you may begin. Thank 

6 you.

7 MR. AGRON: Leslie Agron, L-e-s-l-i-e A8 g-r-o-n.

9 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of 

10 the EPA. Thank you for taking my testimony. My 

11 name is Leslie Agron. I am from Oak Ridge, 

12 Tennessee. As the son of a Manhattan Project 

13 scientist, I was born and raised there. I grew 

14 up within walking distance of Appalachia.

15 I am currently a candidate for the 

16 Tennessee State Legislature. I have previously 

17 served on Oak Ridge's Environmental and Quality 

18 Advisory Board. I hold an Executive M.B.A. from 

19 the Cox School of Business at Southern Methodist 

20 University. Given that credential, the thrust of 

21 my remarks will be about business and business 

22 climate.

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1 I hold that, contrary to industry remarks 

2 that coal makes jobs, coal is not good business. 

3 To be clear, in a historical sense, coal was very 

4 important to the development of America in the 

5 nineteenth and twentieth centuries. During those 

6 historical periods, coal very much enhanced the 

7 business climate of our country by supplying 

8 affordable energy when no other source of energy 

9 was available.

10 In more recent times, however, even with 

11 the periodic improvements which have been made, 

12 continuing coal industry practices have led to 

13 conditions which tend to diminish the capacity 

14 for business in this vicinity.

15 Specifically, Tennessee's largest 

16 industry is agriculture. The quality of our 

17 water has significant bearing on both the success 

18 of that and the overall health of the people of 

19 Tennessee. Mountaintop mining techniques, 

20 although somewhat modified from some of the bad 

21 practices in the past, still channel runoff into 

22 our watershed as a normal consequence of 

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1 disturbing the top layers to reach the seams of 

2 coal.

3 While the coal industry will point to 

4 their changes in practices, these only followed a 

5 long public outcry, revised regulations, and 

6 enforcement measures, and then only brought 

7 compliance to the letter of the law.

8 The district I seek to represent is just 

9 a few miles from TVA's Kingston fossil plant. As 

10 you no doubt recall, in 2008, that was the scene 

11 of a tragic accident which caused a billion12 gallon spill of its stored coal ash slurry into

13 the Clinch River, a tributary of the Tennessee 

14 River. This massive environmental discharge made 

15 the Exxon Valdez incident seem small by 

16 comparison.

17 Storage requirements have been revised 

18 subsequently, and the public relations message is 

19 that this will not recur. But beforehand, they 

20 would have told us that the ash was stored safely 

21 according to industry practices.

22 The coal-power industry will also tell us 

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1 that the cleanup process in the vicinity has been 

2 completed. This should not be taken to mean, 

3 however, that all of the spilled ash has been 

4 removed from the environment and returned to 

5 contained storage. That is as impossible as 

6 returning an egg once broken to its former shell.

7 Instead, the cleanup process has reached 

8 its planned end stage, where additional cleanup 

9 efforts would tend to disturb and release 

10 deposited coal ash rather than to remove the 

11 toxic material from an environment. It is eerily 

12 haunting to walk that vicinity years later and be 

13 able to literally smell the tragedy which 

14 occurred there.

15 Tennessee's third-largest industry, and 

16 rapidly growing, is tourism. The district I seek 

17 to represent borders on I-75, the nation's 

18 busiest interstate highway. There are several 

19 proposals to greatly increase attractions and 

20 facilities to visitors in our area in the near 

21 future.

22 I shudder to remember as a boy watching 

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1 strip mining scars spread across our beloved 

2 mountains. The memory of that ugliness lasts a 

3 lifetime. Such practices are simply not 

4 compatible with the larger visitor-based economy 

5 Tennessee is capable of enjoying.

6 Again, the coal industry would tell us 

7 these mountains have been restored. "Restored" 

8 -- when they use this word, they may not mean 

9 quite what we mean when most of us use this word. 

10 I have a friend who restores antique cars as a 

11 hobby. When he is done, the cars are in mint 

12 condition.

13 What is meant by "restored" in this case 

14 is that the holes have been filled in and there 

15 is something green growing on top. Where there 

16 once was a vital ecosystem, there is now all the 

17 vitality of a vacant lot. Generations will pass 

18 before nature is able to return these 

19 mountaintops to anything resembling the sort of 

20 complex ecosystem which once flourished there. 

21 So, if I marched you through a winding 

22 recount of the past ills of coal industry 

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1 practices, or if I distinguished a pattern of 

2 behavior which can accurately predict their 

3 future performance, I submit the latter: They 

4 have not played well with others in the past, and 

5 they are here this week seeking to continue that 

6 streak.

7 Public outcry will be required yet again 

8 to overrule their intentions and move this 

9 country toward of future of affordable and 

10 sustainable energy practice.

11 With the world's leading green-energy 

12 research coming from Oak Ridge National 

13 Laboratory, another plug for my area, our nation 

14 will prosper from rolling out to the world the 

15 technologies that will make this vision easily 

16 affordable and attainable.

17 MS. KEMKER: If you'll wrap up soon. 

18 Your time has --

19 MR. AGRON: Okay. 

20 The coal industry is obsolete, and we 

21 need to move on.

22 Thank you so much for your kind 

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1 attention.

2 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

3 Our next two speakers are Ron Shipman and 

4 Joe Reynolds.

5 [Pause.] 

6 MS. KEMKER: Mr. Shipman, if you'll begin 

7 when you're ready.

8 MR. SHIPMAN: Okay. Thank you.

9 Good afternoon, and thank you for holding 

10 this meeting, or this hearing. My name is Ron 

11 Shipman, R-o-n S-h-i-p-m-a-n. And I am the Vice 

12 President of Environmental Affairs at Georgia 

13 Power.

14 A subsidiary of Southern Company and 

15 Georgia's largest electricity supplier, we're

16 committed to providing clean, safe, reliable, and 

17 affordable electricity to our 2.4 million 

18 customers by maintaining a diverse generation 

19 fleet.

20 We're in the midst of a more than $5 

21 billion environmental construction program and 

22 will retire about 3,000 megawatts of coal-fired 

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1 capacity over five years in order to comply with 

2 current environmental rules.

3 Georgia is a growing state. And at the 

4 same time, we're mindful that 44 percent of our 

5 customers make $40,000 or less a year. That 

6 said, a reliable, affordable energy supply is 

7 critical to the state's growth and the standard 

8 of living.

9 With these principles in mind, we have 

10 significant concerns about EPA's proposed 

11 guidelines and its potential impact to our 

12 customers.

13 Today I have three points to discuss. 

14 First, the guidelines penalize Georgia for taking 

15 early action in constructing new nuclear. 

16 Second, the guidelines prevent us from operating 

17 in a manner that minimizes cost to our customers. 

18 Third, the guidelines overstep the agency's 

19 authority.

20 Initially, Georgia Power and others 

21 committed to be the first in the nation to 

22 construct new nuclear in almost 30 years. While 

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1 other utilities will benefit from the path paved 

2 by Vogtle's units 3 and 4, we took this step with 

3 hopes of enhancing fuel diversity and addressing 

4 future CO2 requirements.

5 Yet, rather than reward the expansion of 

6 zero-carbon generation, EPA guidelines penalize 

7 Georgia for its early action. Because of 

8 Vogtle's units 3 and 4, EPA requires more 

9 aggressive reductions from Georgia than any other 

10 similarly situated state.

11 In fact, EPA admits that it ignores the 

12 investment we are making in Vogtle 3 and 4, yet 

13 it relies on the CO2 reduction in setting 

14 Georgia's limits. As a result, EPA's proposal 

15 forces Georgians to take on a significant 

16 additional cost of farther reduced CO2.

17 The message from EPA is clear: It does 

18 not pay to plan ahead. If you take early 

19 actions, you will be forced to carry an even 

20 greater burden.

21 Secondly, EPA's proposal will prevent us 

22 from operating in a manner that minimizes costs 

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1 to our customers. EPA's assumption on heat rate, 

2 natural gas, renewables, nuclear, energy 

3 efficiency are all too aggressive.

4 Let me use energy efficiency for example. 

5 We have effectively worked with the Georgia 

6 Public Service Commission for years to develop 

7 and implement energy-efficient programs that make 

8 sense for our customers. Yet, EPA assumes 

9 Georgia can increase cumulative energy-efficient 

10 measures to 14 times the 2012 levels, with 

11 minimal cost.

12 Our research tells us just the opposite. 

13 The energy efficiency levels proposed in the 

14 guidelines could cost our customers $4 to $5 

15 billion in higher rates, costs that are not 

16 factored into this rule. Farther, the cost only 

17 covers the impact to our customers, which are 

18 roughly half the electricity users in the state.

19 While the overall cost of EPA's proposals 

20 cannot be quantified at this point, EPA's 

21 guidelines clearly force us away from 

22 economically operating our generating fleet to 

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1 the benefit of our customers. EPA is effectively 

2 making critical resource decisions that disregard 

3 Georgia's integrated resource planning process 

4 and disregard the economic impact to this state.

5 Finally, we believe EPA's guidelines 

6 exceed the authority Congress intended in the 

7 Clean Air Act, and do not follow three principles 

8 of our nation's laws.

9 First, EPA must define the best system of 

10 emission reduction based on measures that can be 

11 taken at the unit, not outside the power plant 

12 fence or inside the customer's home.

13 Second, state environmental agencies, not 

14 EPA, have the authority to set existing source 

15 performance standards.

16 Third, EPA has no authority to set energy 

17 policy. This authority rightfully resides with 

18 the state and the Public Service Commission. 

19 These agencies are dedicated to energy planning, 

20 understanding local needs and sensitivities, and 

21 are best positioned to make the decisions that 

22 affect the reliability and affordability of 

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1 electric service in their states.

2 In closing, Georgia Power asks that EPA 

3 withdraw these guidelines and re-propose them to 

4 be consistent with the Clean Air Act. 

5 Thank you.

6 MR. STENHOUSE: I have a question.

7 Mr. Shipman, will you be providing in 

8 your written comments sort of more information 

9 about how you calculated the $4 to $5 billion in 

10 higher rates for your ratepayers?

11 MR. SHIPMAN: Yes, we will.

12 MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thank you.

13 MR. SHIPMAN: You're welcome.

14 MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Reynolds.

15 MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you.

16 My name is Joseph Reynolds, J-o-s-e-p-h 

17 R-e-y-n-o-l-d-s. Hello. I'm a farmer here in 

18 the metro area of Atlanta, in DeKalb County, just 

19 a little south of Decatur and east of downtown 

20 Atlanta.

21 I'd like to thank the EPA for this 

22 opportunity to speak and to applaud them for the 

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1 proposed rule limiting carbon pollution going 

2 forward.

3 I want to tell you a little bit about 

4 myself. I have about 10 years farming 

5 experience. During that time, I have operated a 

6 farming business on my own for seven of those 

7 years. And I grow diverse vegetables, mostly for 

8 a local audience. I'm a certified organic 

9 farmer. I have a 100-member community-supported 

10 agriculture program. I sell at a couple of local 

11 farmers markets and to restaurants.

12 And the reason that I'm able to do this 

13 successfully on the small-scale farm that I take 

14 care of is that I grow a wide variety of crops 

15 seasonally for my customers.

16 I want to give you all just a couple of 

17 highlights of my 10-year farming career and some 

18 of the things that I've seen over that time. 

19 When I first began farming, we were in the 10-

20 year drought, which was quite extreme.

21 I took over a farm in Douglasville, 

22 Georgia, for a couple of years prior to my moving 

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1 to the farm here in the metro area, where we 

2 experienced the tremendous flood of 2009, which 

3 involved my farm essentially getting 20-plus 

4 inches of rain on it in 36 hours. That 

5 effectively put me out of business for the 

6 remainder of the year.

7 Following that, we have seen tremendous 

8 heat spikes over the summertimes, summertime 

9 highs of 105 to 107. Some of our years have been 

10 really dry. But last year, for example, we saw 

11 one of the rainiest years, on average, also 

12 adversely affecting my farm business.

13 This winter we saw the polar vortex, 

14 which was a theme I was unfamiliar with prior to 

15 it hitting. But we saw temperatures, low 

16 temperatures of 7 degrees, and now we're 

17 experiencing a summer polar vortex.

18 What I really want to highlight is that 

19 things are moving quickly, from my perspective. 

20 And Georgia farmers are seeing a lot of erratic 

21 severe weather that's adversely affecting our 

22 ability to make a living.

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1 So I want to give you a little background 

2 of what farmers like myself talk about at annual 

3 farming conferences that we attend annually. 

4 We're aware that climate change is happening and 

5 that it's happening as a result of the carbon 

6 pollution in the air, and we're trying to adapt 

7 to the situation of a changing climate.

8 While we are seeing these extremely 

9 sporadic highs and lows, we know that the trend 

10 will be moving to hotter and hotter temperatures 

11 for our area here in the Southeast.

12 So, these changes will ultimately 

13 adversely define what we can grow and our ability 

14 to be successful as businesspeople. Because, 

15 while we are very environmentally concerned as a 

16 farming community, we're really concerned with 

17 staying in business.

18 So one of these rapidly -- one of these 

19 moves towards higher temperatures that we'll see 

20 is our loss of seasonable variability in crops 

21 that we can grow here in Georgia. So, as I 

22 defined, my market really comes to me because I 

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1 have the ability to produce a huge diversity. I 

2 grow about 30 different crops on a two-acre piece 

3 of land -- lots of diversity, a very high 

4 entrance of production.

5 So, what we'll also begin to see is, on 

6 average, warmer winters, which will, for me, 

7 effectively increase the number of insects, 

8 diseases, and weeds that easily over-winter in 

9 our area, thereby affecting -- essentially 

10 creating a need to manage these resources a 

11 little bit more, taking a little time away from 

12 my farming operation, and increasing my cost.

13 Another thing that we're really beginning 

14 to recognize is that we're going to be looking at 

15 these essentially drought-like conditions on 

16 average that will make water also an input that's 

17 going to be hard to have on hand. We'll also 

18 begin to see some of the loss of the health in 

19 our soils, which will effectively make farming a 

20 little bit harder. I think we'll see higher 

21 costs demanded from all farmers.

22 So while I really see the farming 

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1 community as a community that can adapt to these 

2 changes, I really applaud ya'll in taking action 

3 now to begin to limit carbon pollution, because 

4 what we don't want to do is have to hyper-adapt 

5 going forward.

6 So, thank you so much for allowing me 

7 this opportunity to share my experience as a 

8 farmer in Georgia. And thank you all for taking 

9 action.

10 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

11 I believe we have a couple of questions.

12 MR. STENHOUSE: Yes. To start, to go 

13 back to Mr. Shipman, to your testimony.

14 On the way you calculated the $4 to $5 

15 billion in extra payments from ratepayers, over 

16 what time period do you think that's applicable?

17 MR. SHIPMAN: Well, we do the review, we 

18 just went through our integrated resource plan 

19 last year. And that's a part of that process, so 

20 just starting back in a 2012 analysis. So the 

21 time span itself is about five years to a decade 

22 is when we're looking at the expansion.

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1 MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Forward from 2012. 

2 And that actually reflects the plans you've 

3 already laid in the IRP process, or is that in 

4 anticipation of what you think you'd do in 

5 response to the proposed goals?

6 MR. SHIPMAN: That's two questions. One, 

7 to plan -- in the process, our key process talks 

8 about what we've already done and what we'll be 

9 looking for for the next three years.

10 And this rule, we've taken that 

11 extrapolation and moved it forward to the time 

12 limits that you're looking at.

13 MR. STENHOUSE: I see. So about a five14 to ten-year period is what you're saying? Okay. 

15 And do you know about sort of on a household-bill 

16 level or something we might think about seeing 

17 change in our bills, what the effect of that 

18 would be?

19 MR. SHIPMAN: Don't know yet, because the 

20 rules aren't final.

21 MR. STENHOUSE: Right.

22 MR. SHIPMAN: So this is just our best 

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1 guess on extrapolation of the data that we 

2 currently have.

3 MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thanks very much.

4 MR. SHIPMAN: Okay. 

5 MS. KEMKER: All right.

6 And, Mr. Reynolds, I had for you, I would 

7 just -- will you be submitting your comments in 

8 writing? And to the extent that you can include 

9 examples of the comments that you made about loss 

10 of variability, increase in insects and weeds and 

11 disease, and where you can get specific examples,

12 that would be helpful.

13 MR. REYNOLDS: Okay. Thank you.

14 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

15 Our next speakers are Angela Howard and 

16 Howard Katzman. Thank you.

17 [Pause.] 

18 MS. KEMKER: It says Angela, but it could 

19 be a typo.

20 [Inaudible interjections.]

21 MS. KEMKER: Okay. I don't see an Angela 

22 Howell stepping forward, so it could be our --

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1 [Inaudible interjection and laughter.]

2 [Pause.] 

3 MS. KEMKER: Alice, if you'll begin when 

4 you're ready.

5 MS. HOWELL: My name is Alice Howell, A6 l-i-c-e- H-o-w-e-l-l.

7 I'm a longtime resident of Kentucky -- in 

8 fact, most of my life, with a few forays into 

9 other parts of the U.S. But I want to thank the 

10 EPA for holding the regional hearings across the 

11 U.S. on the proposed Clean Power Plan.

12 And I am committed to a brighter future 

13 for the Commonwealth of Kentucky that sees 

14 vibrant communities with diversified economies, a 

15 clean environment, and sustainable energy 

16 availability that will make our state a most 

17 desirable place to live.

18 I believe that we all have an obligation 

19 to invest in and protect the future 

20 sustainability of our planet and its citizens.

21 When the EPA introduced the proposed 

22 climate rule in early June that would reduce CO2 

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1 emissions at coal-fired power plants, there was 

2 hope that there would be more of an emphasis on 

3 replacing high-risk coal-powered natural-gas 

4 fired and nuclear power plants with low- to no5 risk renewables and energy efficiency. Instead, 

6 the focus was primarily on the end-of-the-pipe 

7 CO2 emissions.

8 Though the proposed 30 percent reduction 

9 in CO2 emissions from dirty fossil-fuel-fired 

10 power plants -- try to say that fast -- by 2030 

11 is a step in the right direction, this plan does 

12 not address all the environmental impacts of the 

13 whole fuel cycle on the externalities such as air 

14 and water qualities, the severe environmental 

15 impacts of mountaintop removal mining and other 

16 fossil-fuel extraction methods, and the health 

17 and economic impacts on communities overall.

18 Since these externalities are not 

19 considered, there's the moral dilemma that the 

20 human costs are assumed as acceptable, though 

21 there are alternatives available that do not 

22 cause harm to people.

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1 The Clean Power Plan does not do enough 

2 to address concentrations of localized pollution. 

3 We would like to see stronger incentives to 

4 protect low-income communities, who can be 

5 disproportionately affected by carbon pollution.

6 In Kentucky, the Energy and Environment 

7 Cabinet believes that we have almost met the CO2 

8 reduction requirements required in the Clean 

9 Power Plan. In their view, because of the coal10 fired power plants that have already closed, 

11 switched to natural gas, or currently slated to 

12 be mothballed before 2020, there is little more 

13 that we will have to do to meet the carbon plan's 

14 goals.

15 Therefore, we see that the Clean Power 

16 Plan does not incentivize Kentucky or other 

17 similar coal-gas-energy-dependent states to move 

18 towards sustainable energy development, to tap 

19 the low-hanging fruit of economic development and 

20 savings around energy efficiency, or to support 

21 demand-side energy efficiency.

22 So, with the EPA's mission to protect 

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1 human health and the environment, and one of its 

2 purposes being that environmental protection 

3 contributes to making our communities and 

4 ecosystems diverse, sustainable, and economically 

5 productive, I ask that the EPA please promulgate 

6 the strongest regulations we need to kick-start 

7 addressing the reality of climate change in 

8 Kentucky as they march forward with blinders on, 

9 believing that coal is still the way to go.

10 Rather than pandering to the demands of 

11 the energy industry and the whining of the 

12 Southeastern states about overstepping your 

13 regulatory boundaries, center your Clean Power 

14 Plan on putting the wellbeing of the planet and 

15 its inhabitants in the priority position.

16 And I thank you all for all the work that 

17 you've already put forward on addressing climate 

18 change. But it can go a little further. 

19 Thank you.

20 MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Katzman?

21 MR. KATZMAN: Good afternoon. My name is 

22 Howard Katzman. That's K-a-t-z-m-a-n.

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1 I'm here speaking on behalf of the 

2 Georgia Energy Efficiency Trade Association, or 

3 GEETA. We appreciate this opportunity to provide 

4 oral arguments to the EPA on the proposed Clean 

5 Power Plan.

6 Today, my comments will focus on energy 

7 efficiency. I am self-employed in metro Atlanta 

8 as an energy efficiency consultant. A major part 

9 of my business is performing home assessments for 

10 Georgia Power customers looking to improve their 

11 home's comfort and reduce energy bills.

12 Thankfully, business is strong largely 

13 because, once people learn that there are 

14 workable cost-effective solutions to their 

15 problems, they are eager to get the house fixed. 

16 They are seeing their energy bills go down by 15 

17 or 20 or even 40 percent.

18 I am working with over a dozen companies 

19 to form GEETA because we know there is a huge 

20 need out there. Plus, GEETA will give us a 

21 combined voice to advocate for the economic 

22 development of the energy efficiency industry in 

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1 Georgia.

2 The houses we are fixing are not unusual. 

3 There are literally tens if not hundreds of 

4 thousands of homeowners across Georgia who can 

5 benefit from this type of program. We see the 

6 same types of issues repeatedly in homes all 

7 across the state. It's typical construction, but 

8 there are huge opportunities for improving the 

9 energy efficiency.

10 Georgia has several paths for meeting its 

11 CO2 reduction goals as outlined in the proposed 

12 Clean Power Plan, and energy efficiency is a very 

13 inexpensive way to meet the goal. The only 

14 utility in the state with energy efficiency goals 

15 -- Georgia Power -- saved $450 million kilowatt 

16 hours from 2011 to 2013. Moving forward, Georgia 

17 Power's goal is slightly higher within the next 

18 three years, and it is projected to save 0.4 

19 percent of retail sales each year.

20 While this goal is not robust, it is 

21 significantly higher than the energy efficiency 

22 impacts of the electric membership corporations 

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1 and municipal utilities in Georgia, which make up 

2 approximately half of the state's electricity 

3 sales.

4 A statewide energy efficiency program for 

5 homes and businesses modeled on Georgia Power's 

6 current programs could be a key component of the 

7 state's plan. We are seeing homeowners implement 

8 cost-effective improvements like duct and air 

9 sealing, and adding insulation, and getting a 

10 large bang for their buck.

11 Given the need for Georgia Power, the 

12 EMC's, and the municipals to work together to 

13 achieve Georgia's energy efficiency goal, I 

14 suggest that a statewide entity such as the 

15 Georgia Environmental Finance Authority, or GEFA, 

16 could manage a statewide energy efficiency 

17 program.

18 There are many advantages to this 

19 approach. A consistent statewide program would 

20 reduce confusion in the market and simplify 

21 promoting the program. It would streamline and 

22 economize the delivery by contractors. It would 

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1 allow savings in natural gas or propane, as well 

2 as kilowatt hours, to be recognized by the 

3 programs. Keep in mind that Georgia Power's 

4 program only recognizes savings in electricity 

5 efficiency because it's an electric utility.

6 The program -- a consistent statewide 

7 program could provide financing, allowing 

8 customers to repay their improvement costs on 

9 either the utility or their property tax bills. 

10 These are proven approaches with very low 

11 delinquency rates and allow improvement costs to 

12 be paid for out of the utility savings, usually 

13 at no net cost increase to the homeowner.

14 The program also would achieve a triple 

15 bottom line. Property owners, homeowners and 

16 tenants, and businesses all benefit with savings. 

17 It assures the state's CO2 goals are more easily 

18 met. It is fair because citizens statewide 

19 benefit from lowered utility bills. And it 

20 creates jobs locally, generating tax base. 

21 Property owners easily embrace energy efficiency 

22 when it is shown how it can benefit them.

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1 The nucleus of the energy efficiency 

2 industry already exists and can easily ramp up. 

3 Georgia has over 4,000 people employed in 

4 improving energy efficiency, according to the 

5 2013 Southeast Clean Energy Industry Census. 

6 Businesses will put people to work locally, not 

7 overseas, in meaningful jobs with translatable 

8 skills.

9 Improving energy efficiency in buildings 

10 and homes in Georgia can be a major component of 

11 the Clean Power Plan. This is a grand 

12 opportunity to reduce carbon emissions while 

13 creating jobs, saving citizens money, and growing 

14 businesses like mine.

15 Thank you very much.

16 MS. KEMKER: Thank you. Thank you both.

17 All right. Our next two speakers are 

18 David Brown and Lance Brown.

19 [Pause.] 

20 MS. KEMKER: Mr. David Brown, if you'll 

21 begin when you're ready?

22 MR. DAVID BROWN: Pardon?

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1 MS. KEMKER: If you'll begin when you're 

2 ready.

3 MR. DAVID BROWN: Okay. I'm David Brown, 

4 from Louisville, Kentucky.

5 And about 40 years ago, I remember my 

6 physical science book in high school, it was 

7 talking about how dirty -- dirty, dangerously 

8 dirty fossil fuels were and how we needed to go 

9 to, you know, clean energy. But here it is 40 

10 years later, and Obama just, you know, getting 

11 started.

12 Well, shortly after that in my class, 

13 there was this saying that got started. "We got 

14 to go with what we got." You know, it became 

15 like a mantra, and it's been like a mantra for 

16 like 40 years. And it's like the opposing 

17 argument that has not been said enough, the Stone 

18 Age did not end because man ran out of rocks. We 

19 found something better to fit, to fit our 

20 survival needs.

21 And that's when I say United States needs 

22 to be a leader, and right now we're not. Germany 

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1 and a lot of those other developmental countries 

2 are. I think we need to be a leader more than we 

3 are, and instead of, you know, saying, "Well, we 

4 got to go with this hole that we're in, because 

5 that's what we got."

6 You know, I mean, when 97 percent of the 

7 scientists are telling us that climate action is 

8 actually happening because we are contributing to 

9 it, and us as a developmental country, of course 

10 we're contributing a lot.

11 So, but I was brought up as a Catholic. 

12 And my -- our ethics always were stewardship of 

13 the environment, except you weren't supposed to 

14 go out and be a preacher. You weren't supposed 

15 to go out and go witnessing and all that sort of 

16 stuff. You were supposed to try to lead by 

17 example.

18 And then, that's what I've been doing for 

19 about 35 years, I've been trying to lead by 

20 example. I was out pushing -- I've been pushing 

21 like a rod and reel, a real push mower. You 

22 know, I was thinking -- well, yeah. You know, I 

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1 can motivate somebody to do something --

2 [Pause.]

3 MR. DAVID BROWN: To do something better 

4 than what we were. But my brother came over 

5 about two years ago. And he was repeatedly 

6 telling me, you know, that he was repeatedly 

7 assuring me that he thought I was crazy. You 

8 know, he was saying, you know, it was a record 

9 year where people were dying of heat exposure.

10 And he said, "Well, you're going to be 

11 next." But, you know, and well, when my brother 

12 left, I finished mowing my grass with my real 

13 push mower. But during that time, I mean, my 

14 mouth was, you know, dry for like it was full of 

15 cotton. And I was exhausted, stooped over, 

16 because they don't build stuff for tall people.

17 And all that time, my brother -- the 

18 little thing he was telling me was that -- it 

19 really got to me. And I thought, well, I need to 

20 get into this environmental movement and witness 

21 like I'm here today. Because as I said, 97 

22 percent of the scientists are telling us that 

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1 it's happening and we need to do something about 

2 it.

3 And it diminishes our capacity as human 

4 beings when we deny our culpability of being, you 

5 know, a part of it, and especially in the United 

6 States. We're a major part of it.

7 And thank you very much for giving me 

8 this time to speak. I appreciate it. You're our 

9 friends.

10 MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Brown.

11 MR. LANCE BROWN: Another Brown. Lance 

12 Brown, L-a-n-c-e B-r-o-w-n.

13 I'm with PACE, the Partnership for 

14 Affordable Clean Energy. I'm here today 

15 representing more than 20 partners across the 

16 Southeast. Many of these are involved in 

17 manufacturing and trade, others in farming and 

18 agribusiness. Still others are small businesses 

19 making their way in a tough economy. Some are 

20 simply families that want to keep the lights on 

21 at an affordable price.

22 The common bond among all these 

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1 organizations that are part of our coalition is 

2 that each will be affected negatively by the new 

3 carbon dioxide regulation proposed by EPA. The 

4 rule will raise the price of electricity. The 

5 rule will make our nation's energy portfolio less 

6 diverse and, by definition, diminish the strong 

7 foundation of stability that we've built.

8 The rule will make the price of 

9 electricity more volatile by forcing utilities to 

10 use more natural gas. These are the things the 

11 rule will do, and we believe that a careful 

12 examination of the available data -- as opposed 

13 to bias, belief, or just hope -- will lead 

14 reasonable thinkers to the same troubling 

15 conclusions.

16 There are things, however, that the rule 

17 will not do. Although EPA has sold its 

18 regulation of carbon dioxide to the American 

19 public as a climate-change measure, the truth is 

20 that the agency's mandate in producing CO2 from 

21 the power sector is about political posturing, 

22 not real climate results.

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1 The agency's Chief, Gina McCarthy, even 

2 admitted this fact in testimony to the House of 

3 Representatives in September of 2013. When asked 

4 if EPA's regulation of CO2 would cause any 

5 measurable change in the agency's 26 indicators 

6 of climate change, Administrator McCarthy said 

7 they would not.

8 Rather, she explained, a carbon rule only 

9 works if other nations adopt the same policies. 

10 She rationalized that the administration's CO2 

11 regulation, quote, "positions the U.S. for 

12 leadership." In short, this rule is only 

13 leverage.

14 This is not the message EPA has sent to 

15 the American public. If Americans truly realized 

16 that their government was trading affordable 

17 power prices and a strong and stable electricity 

18 portfolio only for political leverage, they would 

19 not support the rule. In fact, they would be 

20 angry, disappointed, and wondering why the 

21 Executive Branch made such a terrible bargain.

22 The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has 

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1 estimated the rule will raise the price of 

2 electricity as much as 40 percent and cost more 

3 than 200,000 jobs. Just as important, the rule 

4 will speed the closure of coal-fired power plants 

5 in the U.S., forcing another 114 gigawatts of 

6 generation off the grid.

7 Philip Moeller of FERC puts it in the 

8 simplest possible terms: "If you take enough 

9 supply out of the system, the price is going to 

10 increase." The agency's MATS rule is already 

11 taking 60 gigawatts of generation off the grid 

12 next year. Mr. Moeller says that these rapid 

13 shocks to our energy supply could cause brownouts 

14 or even blackouts. That was in the LA Times.

15 Meanwhile, the rest of the world will use 

16 U.S. coal to produce more than six additional 

17 tons of carbon for every one ton we reduce under 

18 this rule. The bottom line is that the earth's 

19 temperature will not change because of this rule, 

20 but power bills will.

21 On behalf of our partners, we ask the EPA 

22 to abandon this irrational approach to climate 

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1 change and focus instead on more reasonable 

2 measures that deliver real results.

3 Thanks for the opportunity to testify.

4 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

5 Questions?

6 MR. STENHOUSE: Yes. Mr. Lance Brown, I 

7 think you just mentioned a ratio of six 

8 additional tons of carbon to one. Can you 

9 clarify what you're saying there about those 

10 numbers?

11 MR. LANCE BROWN: Sure. The U.S. Chamber 

12 of Commerce's study says that projections of, I 

13 believe it's through 2030 -- project that CO2 

14 emissions worldwide will increase by about 62 

15 percent. Taking the U.S. portion of that under 

16 the EPA rule, we would still see more than 50 

17 percent increase, even with the rule.

18 MR. STENHOUSE: Thank you.

19 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

20 Our next two speakers are Cliff Cockerham 

21 and Elizabeth Henry Warner.

22 [Pause.]

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1 MS. KEMKER: And, Mr. Cockerham, if 

2 you'll begin when you're ready.

3 DR. COCKERHAM: Okay. My name is Dr. 

4 Cliff, C-l-i-f-f, Cockerham, C-o-c-k-e-r-h-a-m, 

5 from Nashville, Tennessee. First I speak as the 

6 Environment Justice Committee Chair of the 

7 Tennessee Sierra Club.

8 Over the last 35 years, I've been 

9 variously involved as an investigator and 

10 research guest collaborator at Brookhaven 

11 National Laboratory, the National Institutes of 

12 Health, the Centers for Disease Control, Emory 

13 University School of Medicine, Harvard Medical 

14 School, et cetera, and was a coauthor in the '90s 

15 of one of the NIH minority health research 

16 agendas.

17 But more personally, my father suffers 

18 from asthma. Four of America's so-called "asthma 

19 capitals" are Nashville, Knoxville, Memphis, and

20 Chattanooga, Tennessee. So my friends and 

21 neighbors suffer from asthma, and a startling 

22 percentage of the Tennessee young people I work 

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1 with suffer from asthma and an array of other 

2 diseases indisputably associated with burning 

3 fossil fuels, which might help explain why 

4 Tennessee has the second highest infant mortality 

5 in the United States.

6 EPA estimates that by 2030, proposed 

7 rules will annually -- that is annually --

8 prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and 6,000 deaths 

9 per year. I believe this is a conservative 

10 estimate and only hints at what is possible if 

11 these rules were only stronger.

12 It is well known that both human burden 

13 and other human costs of climate change impact 

14 all humans, but disproportionate burden is borne 

15 by women, mothers, children, elders, people of 

16 color, and people at the socioeconomic margins. 

17 These people, indeed this entire country, 

18 desperately needs decisive action to dramatically 

19 and immediately cut power plant emissions.

20 Therefore, I applaud proposed EPA rules, 

21 call for the implementation immediately, and 

22 enthusiastically encourage you to make them 

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1 stronger in every possible way at every 

2 opportunity.

3 As said earlier by the President-elect of 

4 the Physicians for Social Responsibility, the 

5 proposed carbon rules are, quote, "the most 

6 promising health-protective climate proposals in 

7 years," end quote.

8 Tennessee is certainly off to a good 

9 start, but there is every reason to believe that 

10 the proposed rules will give Tennessee 

11 stakeholders the clarity, the focus, the 

12 political will, and federal support to do what is 

13 vital, what is essential, what is avoided only at 

14 the peril of our nation and of our species.

15 In Tennessee, we are seeing an explosive 

16 growth today of solar power. Wind power is 

17 poised to come online soon to deliver clean low18 cost energy. But clean power will accelerate the 

19 process -- the Clean Power Plan -- providing a 

20 solid time frame for us to move more rapidly to a 

21 clean energy economy, and in the process 

22 delivering improved overall health, economic 

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1 growth, job creation, and more disposable income 

2 for the working poor through lower energy bills.

3 Second, I speak as Director of 

4 Environmental Justice Programs for the Tennessee 

5 Alliance for Progress locally, and 

6 internationally for the Xavier Green School 

7 Movement led by the Xavier Green School of 

8 India; the Methodist Schools of Gujarat Province, 

9 India; the Global Sustainability Education Center 

10 in Nashville; and other networked education 

11 programs in the Yucatan, Australian Outback, and 

12 Africa, et cetera.

13 The Xavier Green School Movement networks 

14 schools that are proactively raising their 

15 operational and pedagogical carbon-reduction 

16 commitments to exemplary levels, explicitly 

17 supporting the UN Decade of Sustainable Energy 

18 for All and the UN sustainable development goals.

19 In September 2014, a few weeks from now, 

20 the UN Climate Summit will attempt to set the 

21 stage for decisive global consensus to 

22 dramatically work towards halting human 

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1 activities that continuously magnify the 

2 greenhouse effect, accelerating global warming, 

3 triggering climate change, severe weather, 

4 climate refugees, habitat loss, species 

5 extinction, loss of agricultural production, and 

6 eventually a planet that will not be favorable to 

7 human life.

8 In this light, I believe it is urgent, 

9 the moral imperative, that EPA help the U.S. move 

10 toward global leadership on climate change. 

11 America cannot afford to ignore climate change. 

12 America cannot fight climate change alone. And 

13 to be clear, America cannot lead nor even join 

14 the global consensus without dramatic action at 

15 home.

16 We need to clear our heads of 

17 preconceived notions, as suggested by Jim Doyle's 

18 manufacturing economic analysis, that said, 

19 quote, "Severe weather costs an auto assembly 

20 plant more in one hour than the EPA's standards 

21 will cost that plant in an entire year," end 

22 quote.

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1 If we fail to move forward as EPA 

2 proposes now, it will not be from a lack of data. 

3 It will not be from a flawed analysis of 

4 probabilities. If we fail to move forward, it 

5 will be from demands for certainty, where clear 

6 heads accept that probability is the logical 

7 basis of rational planning.

8 We have the technology. If we give in to 

9 special interests at the cost of the greater 

10 good, it will be because we failed to think of 

11 our grandchildren's grandchildren, the children 

12 of the world, the future of our species.

13 If we fail now to see EPA stay on course 

14 and even strengthen proposed rules, it will be 

15 because we simply do not care enough to think 

16 beyond selfish short-term profits for the few at 

17 the cost of long-term greater good for the many.

18 Thank you for your time.

19 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

20 Questions?

21 DR. COCKERHAM: I have extra time?

22 [Laughter.]

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1 MS. KEMKER: No.

2 [Laughter.]

3 MR. STENHOUSE: Could you again say this? 

4 You were quoting -- I heard his name as Jim 

5 somebody with a study --

6 DR. COCKERHAM: One of the earlier 

7 speakers. I was very impressed at the 

8 presentation he made and the statistical analysis 

9 he offered you on the cost of the ruling on the 

10 manufacturing sector, as compared to the cost of 

11 doing nothing, which will be much greater.

12 MR. STENHOUSE: Could you remind us his 

13 full name?

14 DR. COCKERHAM: I can share his paper 

15 with you, and he's also an earlier speaker.

16 MR. STENHOUSE: Of course. Thank you.

17 DR. COCKERHAM: And actually, I'd be glad 

18 to send you something in the next day or so with 

19 details.

20 MR. STENHOUSE: Thanks very much.

21 DR. COCKERHAM: Sure.

22 MS. KEMKER: Ms. Henry Warner.

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1 MS. WARNER: Elizabeth Warner, W-a-r-n-e2 r, with Santee Cooper.

3 Santee Cooper is South Carolina's state4 owned electric and water utility and the state's 

5 largest power producer, supplying electricity 

6 that powers more than 2 million South Carolinians 

7 in all 46 counties of our state. We serve retail 

8 customers, industrial customers, and have a 

9 wholesale division that serves the state's 

10 electric cooperatives in several municipalities.

11 As a public power entity with no 

12 shareholders, Santee Cooper works to provide 

13 affordable, environmentally responsible, and 

14 reliable electricity that promotes economic 

15 development.

16 Years ago, Santee Cooper and other South 

17 Carolina utilities began planning for strategic 

18 reductions in CO2 emissions. Santee Cooper is 

19 using an approach that balances environmental 

20 stewardship, reliability, and cost. We've had 

21 many successes in this effort. We're running our 

22 fossil plants at maximum efficiency. We have 

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1 increased our use of natural gas generation. We 

2 have closed four older coal-fired units, about 10 

3 percent of our generation.

4 We were the first utility to generate and 

5 deliver electricity from renewable resources in 

6 South Carolina, and we maintain the largest 

7 portfolio today. We have rebates and other 

8 incentives for customers to make their homes and 

9 businesses energy efficient.

10 In partnership with South Carolina 

11 Electric and Gas, we are building two of the 

12 first new nuclear units in our country. Santee 

13 Cooper has already cut our CO2 emissions by 23 

14 percent since 2005.

15 With all of the above initiatives 

16 appropriately accounted for, Santee Cooper 

17 expects to cut our CO2 emissions a total of 44 

18 percent by 2029, compared to 2005. These 

19 initiatives are costly, but Santee Cooper has 

20 saved customers in the state money by being 

21 proactive in launching them, rather than waiting 

22 until we are forced to act.

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1 Now it appears our early actions are 

2 being discounted, and South Carolinians will be 

3 asked to spend far more money to achieve a target 

4 stricter than asked of 47 other states.

5 South Carolina's 2012 emission rate, 

6 taking into account all current generating units 

7 that can be used to meet the goal, is 1,587 

8 pounds of CO2 per megawatt hour. That is about 

9 the midpoint among the states. The draft rule 

10 sets a final 2030 target of 772 pounds of CO2 per 

11 megawatt hour. That equates to a 51 percent 

12 reduction, the third most significant reduction 

13 from 2012 levels among all 50 states.

14 Santee Cooper has always focused on 

15 keeping power costs affordable for all of our 

16 customers, and our industrial power costs are 29 

17 percent below the national average. Electricity 

18 is often one of the largest expenses for 

19 industry, and extreme efforts required to meet 

20 the proposed EPA target will certainly drive up 

21 costs to power those plants.

22 The draft rule makes many assumptions 

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1 about electricity generation in South Carolina. 

2 We want to make sure EPA understands our state's 

3 specific challenges.

4 EPA has proposed building blocks to help 

5 states achieve lower emissions. However, many of 

6 these assumptions for these building blocks are 

7 not a good fit for South Carolina. Most critical 

8 in terms of cost is the way the proposal treats 

9 new nuclear already under construction.

10 Our new nuclear project with South 

11 Carolina Electric and Gas will cost about $10 

12 billion, and South Carolina electric consumers 

13 are already paying into the project. By 

14 considering these under-construction units as if 

15 they are already built, and in doing so setting 

16 our goal more restrictively, you are punishing 

17 South Carolina for being proactive in its CO2 

18 reductions and investing early in this project.

19 The end result is consumers in South 

20 Carolina will have to pay again for high-cost CO2 

21 reductions from renewables and other measures 

22 that are not cost effective for our state.

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1 EPA should not count under-construction 

2 nuclear as a part of the state target, but should 

3 allow it to be used for compliance with the 

4 revised target. This approach would give South 

5 Carolina full credit for its efforts, and our 

6 customers would not bear the burden of paying for 

7 additional reductions.

8 EPA advocates more use of natural gas. 

9 South Carolina, especially the eastern half, has 

10 no infrastructure to add natural gas generation, 

11 since the nearest pipeline runs along our western 

12 border. Santee Cooper is already running our gas 

13 units as much as we can.

14 There are differences between South 

15 Carolina and other states in the amount and type 

16 of renewables available for electric production. 

17 We do not have the resources to meet a renewable 

18 requirement of 10 percent by 2030.

19 An estimated 36 percent of all South 

20 Carolina's retail sales are to industrial 

21 customers. It is not reasonable to assume that 

22 the large increases in energy efficiency are 

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1 available to this customer class. Therefore, 

2 achieving a 10 percent increase in energy 

3 efficiency savings in South Carolina is not a 

4 feasible goal.

5 EPA should recognize South Carolina's 

6 particular situation with regard to opportunities 

7 for CO2 reduction. The initiatives we have 

8 already proactively undertaken will reduce CO2 

9 emissions by 44 percent for Santee Cooper. That 

10 is far more than the 30 percent EPA has set for 

11 the nation.

12 When other utilities are counted in the 

13 state, we are far ahead of your national average. 

14 To ask us to do more simply because we got a head 

15 start is unfair to the people of South Carolina, 

16 who bear the ultimate burden for these measures.

17 Thank you.

18 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

19 I had a clarifying question. You had 

20 given an estimate of the reductions in South 

21 Carolina by 2030.

22 MS. WARNER: Yes.

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1 MS. KEMKER: What was that?

2 MS. WARNER: We expect -- Santee Cooper 

3 expects to cut its CO2 emissions a total of 44 

4 percent by 2029.

5 MS. KEMKER: Forty percent. And that's 

6 by what date?

7 MS. WARNER: From 2005.

8 MS. KEMKER: Okay. 

9 MS. WARNER: The date the President made 

10 the statement.

11 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

12 Other questions?

13 [No audible response.] 

14 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

15 Our next two speakers are Joyce Lanning 

16 and Deborah Jackson.

17 [Pause.] 

18 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

19 Ms. Lanning, if you'll begin when you're 

20 ready.

21 MS. LANNING: Thank you. I'm Joyce 

22 Lanning from Birmingham, Alabama, and a proud 

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1 grandmother. Since 2008, I've also been a member 

2 of Climate Change Task Force of the League of 

3 Women Voters of the United States. That's the 

4 role that brings me here today. And I thank you 

5 for this opportunity to speak. It's a first for 

6 me in my 71 years.

7 Picture with me a time 43 years ago. I 

8 can barely see the smokestacks of Birmingham's 

9 skyline through the reddish-brown haze that 

10 signals prosperity for our community back then. 

11 It was November 1971. And the health hazards 

12 from the visible air pollution trapped over our 

13 city by stagnant air were so bad that the health 

14 department begged the smokestack industries to 

15 shut down for a few days until the air cleared 

16 and the danger to anyone who breathed was over.

17 When the industries refused, a federal 

18 district judge, for the first time in the country 

19 since the year-old Clean Air Act was passed, they 

20 used their emergency powers and ordered over 20 

21 of the largest polluters idle until the toxic 

22 emergency was over.

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1 It worked. But the city businessmen 

2 complained it was far too aggressive. The county 

3 health officer said, "If you're saying that we 

4 should wait to be counting bodies before we do 

5 something, I disagree."

6 Well, it seems to me that that's where we 

7 are today with invisible carbon pollution from 

8 electric power plants, needing to act before the 

9 body count gets too much higher. Already we're 

10 seeing and feeling the impacts of too much CO2 --

11 a warming planet, devastating extreme weather 

12 events, droughts and forest fires, rising sea 

13 levels, storm surges, you know, the increasing 

14 body count in lives, health, jobs, property and 

15 prosperity.

16 We must set limits on carbon pollution 

17 because the market is failing to give us the true 

18 cost of electric power.

19 I taught college economics. A market 

20 only works when the price correctly includes the 

21 full cost, like health impacts and premature 

22 death and environmentally destructive mining and 

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1 the damages caused by climate change.

2 So, the price for electricity fails to 

3 include these external damages. Well, you could 

4 picture it this way: A male African elephant can 

5 weight 6.8 metric tons. Using the air as pre6 waste dump, we're tossing almost 300 million 

7 elephants into the sky every year, the 

8 equivalent, just in the United States.

9 Now, picture them falling back down on 

10 us, creating havoc with the systems that support 

11 us and other life on our planet. The Clean Air 

12 Act has successfully addressed dangers from 

13 particulate, lead, and harmful gases, with 

14 benefits that are significantly greater than the 

15 costs, which were far lower than the disastrous 

16 costs predicted by opponents.

17 By releasing American ingenuity, the 

18 benefits of this proposed rule can also exceed 

19 costs. In 2010, the League of Women Voters of 

20 the United States created a toolkit for climate 

21 action for local leagues to use as a resource for 

22 addressing climate disruption in their 

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1 communities.

2 A recent update focused on adapting to 

3 climate changes already in the pipeline. But we 

4 still need to dramatically reduce the amount of 

5 CO2 we're dumping into the atmosphere.

6 This proposed rule will support the work 

7 of our nearly 800 state and local leaders across 

8 the country trying to do something about it. The 

9 good news is that this rule, for example, by 

10 encouraging energy efficiency, can help consumers 

11 save energy and save money by cutting their 

12 electricity use and their electricity bills.

13 And the proposed Clean Power Plan gives 

14 states like Alabama the flexibility to choose the 

15 most cost-effective measures to achieve these 

16 needed reductions.

17 The Department of Defense is leading the 

18 way. They're not waiting for certainties that 

19 never come. They already understand the 

20 potential body count. They're managing major 

21 risks by cutting their energy use and reducing 

22 their carbon footprint.

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1 The League of Women Voters has advocated 

2 reductions in CO2 emissions for 15 years. Most 

3 recently, delegates to our national convention in 

4 June voted overwhelmingly to support putting a 

5 price on carbon. The league and our Climate 

6 Change Task Force strongly endorses the proposed 

7 rule to limit carbon pollution from power plants.

8 As for me, personally, I was jolted out 

9 of my complacency in 2007, and I continue to 

10 learn about the risky carbon business that 

11 threatens us and all who come after us. I 

12 support this rule as a step toward a healthy 

13 future I envision for our own young and the young 

14 of all species.

15 Thank you very much for letting me speak.

16 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

17 MR. STENHOUSE: Can I ask what jolted you 

18 out of your complacency in 2007, as you put it?

19 MS. LANNING: Well, yes. It was the 

20 Nobel Peace Prize that awarded the 

21 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and Al 

22 Gore for spreading the word about the dangers of 

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1 carbon pollution. And I didn't understand until 

2 the message got to me.

3 We didn't know what we were doing when we 

4 chose to use fossil fuels to power ourselves. We 

5 needed it. We didn't know, but now we do. And I 

6 can't stop trying to do something about it.

7 MR. STENHOUSE: Thank you very much.

8 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

9 Ms. Jackson.

10 MS. JACKSON: Yes. Good afternoon, 

11 members of the panel. My name is Deborah A. 

12 Jackson, and I'm here in the capacity serving as 

13 Mayor of the City of Lithonia, Georgia.

14 So, as a representative of the city and 

15 on behalf of the many residents of DeKalb County 

16 and the metro Atlanta region, I'm here today to 

17 express support of the proposed EPA Clean Power 

18 Plan as an important step to address the impact 

19 of carbon pollution on people's health and the 

20 environment.

21 Additionally, I want to present a letter 

22 that's addressed to President Barack Obama that 

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1 has been signed by several mayors from the EPA 

2 Region 4. We are requesting that the letter be 

3 made part of the record of these proceedings.

4 In pertinent part, the letter says, "Dear 

5 President Obama: As public officials concerned 

6 about our constituents' wellbeing, we thank you 

7 for your leadership today on addressing climate 

8 change. We enthusiastically support the Clean 

9 Power Plan proposed by the Environmental 

10 Protection Agency.

11 "Climate change threatens the health of 

12 our families, our communities, and ecosystems on 

13 which we depend, and we are ready to work with 

14 and support you and your administration. 

15 Together, we can implement a comprehensive 

16 approach to reduce carbon pollution while 

17 building resilient communities with strong local 

18 economies, reliable and affordable energy 

19 choices, and that are well prepared for the 

20 impacts of climate change now and into the 

21 future.

22 "We are ready to stand up in support of 

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1 this bold action to ensure our communities and 

2 our health are protected and that we are doing 

3 our part to take action to fight climate change. 

4 "Thank you again, Mr. President, for your 

5 leadership in addressing the largest 

6 environmental crisis of our time."

7 During the course of the public hearings, 

8 I am sure that you will receive comments that 

9 will focus on the scientific and technical 

10 aspects of the proposed plan. As an elected 

11 official and policymaker, I wanted to share with 

12 the panel some concerns that need to be 

13 incorporated as essential components of the plan.

14 Often, smaller communities with limited 

15 resources are most impacted by the various forms 

16 of pollution. The impacts are found in health 

17 disparities such as higher levels of respiratory 

18 diseases, higher rates of cancer, and overall 

19 poorer health quality. These impacts are further 

20 compounded by limited economic resources, limited 

21 access to health care facilities, food 

22 insecurity, high unemployment levels, and 

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1 underemployment, just to name a few.

2 But these challenges are not found just 

3 in small communities. Some of our major cities 

4 have neighborhoods and areas that suffer from the 

5 same maladies.

6 Unfortunately, some of the past 

7 regulatory processes have allowed for the 

8 concentration of facilities that have levels of 

9 pollution primarily within low-income and 

10 communities of color. Generally, no attention is 

11 given to the cumulative effects of existing 

12 polluting facility in those areas before new ones 

13 are approved.

14 "Environmental justice" and 

15 "environmental racism" are terms used to describe 

16 the disproportionate placement of toxic and 

17 polluting businesses and industries in 

18 predominantly African American communities, as 

19 well as low-income communities.

20 The businesses always come into the 

21 community under the guise of economic development 

22 and job creation. And while a few people get 

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1 some jobs, the overall impact on the health of 

2 the workers and the surrounding community is not 

3 worth the risk.

4 Environmental racism and injustice is not 

5 just a local problem, but it is a national one. 

6 You may be familiar with the 1987 report prepared 

7 by the United Church of Christ Commission for 

8 Racial Justice on Toxic Waste and Race.

9 Some of the things that they found out 

10 were that three out of five African Americans 

11 live in communities with abandoned toxic waste 

12 sites, and three of the five largest commercial 

13 hazardous-waste landfills are located in 

14 predominantly African American or Latino 

15 communities and accounts for 40 percent of the 

16 nation's total landfill capacity.

17 Twenty years later, in 2007, the 

18 commission found that race continued to be the 

19 most important consideration in the location of 

20 those facilities.

21 In the interests of the communities and 

22 the country, I am requesting that EPA incorporate 

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1 the principles of environmental justice, as well 

2 as climate justice, as an essential and necessary 

3 part of the Clean Power Plan. Additionally, the 

4 environmental and climate justice principles must 

5 be made part of the state implementation planning 

6 process. And environmental leaders need to be 

7 part of that process, going forward.

8 It is essential that EPA take a firm 

9 position to protect the environment and health of 

10 overburdened communities and work with elected 

11 officials and other community stakeholders to 

12 achieve healthy and sustainable communities. 

13 Thank you very much for this opportunity.

14 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

15 Thank you both.

16 Our next two speakers are Stephanie 

17 Stuckey-Benfield and Sandy Kurtz.

18 [Pause.] 

19 MS. KEMKER: And just as a public service 

20 announcement, for making sure that we get all of 

21 your comments, I know there's an effort to get 

22 them all in within the five minutes. But please 

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1 speak at least slowly enough so that we can get 

2 it recorded for our record. So, thank you very 

3 much.

4 Ms. Kurtz. You may begin when you're 

5 ready.

6 MS. KURTZ: Oh. I'm going to ask someone 

7 else to join me up here first.

8 MS. KEMKER: If you'll go ahead and 

9 speak, that would be great.

10 MS. KURTZ: I'm Sandy Kurtz. And I am --

11 I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And I am an 

12 environmental education consultant and Vice 

13 President of Blue Ridge Environmental Defense 

14 League and involved with its local chapter, 

15 Bellefont Efficiency and Sustainability Team16 Mothers Against Tennessee River Radiation.

17 My general impression of the plan, as it 

18 has -- the proposal as it has been presented is 

19 good. The emphasis on individual state plans 

20 allows for creativity and flexibility and 

21 regional adaptability.

22 I do have a question, however. Since I 

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1 live in Tennessee, that means that our energy 

2 generation comes from Tennessee Valley Authority, 

3 TVA. That is, of course, a quasi-federal agency 

4 with 9 million customers in parts of seven 

5 states. That means they don't really have to 

6 answer to any state determinations.

7 TVA has already taken a great many steps 

8 to reduce carbon emissions, although they're 

9 dragging their feet on support of solar use, 

10 since there surely requires a more distributed 

11 energy model.

12 What is the -- here's the question: What 

13 is the relationship required for interaction 

14 between TVA and the State of Tennessee when it 

15 comes to developing a plan to address climate 

16 resiliency, which is what your plan is 

17 addressing? Of course, the proposed rules ask 

18 that each state must comply with BSER, the best 

19 system of emission reduction. Certainly, that 

20 means no more coal plants.

21 But it should also mean no nuclear 

22 plants. This is a major concern for me, as the 

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1 rules now are proposing. There is this myth that 

2 nuclear plants do not contribute to global 

3 warming, and therefore all we have to do is build 

4 more nuclear plants to replace the coal that 

5 we're closing down.

6 In the rules, you state that nuclear 

7 power provides carbon-free generation. 

8 Certainly, compared to coal, there are less CO2 

9 emissions at the plant itself. But the mining, 

10 extensive processing, transportation of the fuel 

11 before it ever gets to the reactor is not 

12 emission-free by a long shot.

13 Nuclear power emits 10 to 20 times more 

14 CO2 than, say, wind. Further, climate disruption 

15 will keep nuclear plants from operating, as we 

16 have already witnessed in the TVA system. When 

17 the water gets too warm in the summer, nuclear 

18 plants must shut down, and that has happened at 

19 Brown's Ferry.

20 The plan states also that you don't want 

21 to count construction emissions for Watts Bar 2 

22 in Tennessee, Vogtle 2 through 4 in Georgia, and 

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1 Summer 2 and 3 in South Carolina, since they got 

2 permission to construct prior to this proposal. 

3 But they are not completed yet, and thus they 

4 will be contributing to carbon emissions when 

5 these rules go into effect.

6 The plan indicates the desire to increase 

7 the amount of available nuclear capacity by 

8 preserving existing nuclear EGU's that might 

9 otherwise be retired. The risk for accidents in 

10 nuclear plants increases as age increases. These 

11 nuclear plants are all ready for retirement. No 

12 matter how much money it saves or how much 

13 finagling of how we count the CO2 emissions, 

14 saving old nuclear plants is not worth the risk.

15 The report keeps saying that EPA 

16 considers CO2 emissions reductions from the 

17 various sources, that it can be done, quote, "at 

18 reasonable cost." The cost ranging anywhere from 

19 $40 per metric ton to $10 per metric ton, that's 

20 for renewables. And you wanted to offset the 6 

21 percent of the older nukes; that would be $12 to 

22 $17 per metric ton.

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1 All the statistics and figuring, I don't 

2 believe that those include the health risks and 

3 resulting deaths, because that is an externality 

4 that is usually not included. I think that if we 

5 look at it in that way, the costs are too high 

6 for both coal and nuclear.

7 And further with nuclear, there are not 

8 enough sites to build in the time required. When 

9 it takes 10 years or more to build a nuclear 

10 plant, we don't have time or money.

11 Distributed energy solar power, wind 

12 power, energy efficiency, and energy conservation 

13 -- we need to do it quickly. We can't wait. 

14 There is a -- we need to recognize the urgency of 

15 this issue.

16 Thank you.

17 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

18 Ms. Stuckey-Benfield.

19 MS. STUCKEY-BENFIELD: Good afternoon. 

20 My name is Stephanie Stuckey-Benfield, and I 

21 apologize for coming up on stage late. I am 

22 actually a last-minute replacement for Pat 

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1 Gardner, who had been -- had planned on 

2 testifying today.

3 She is a state representative, and serves 

4 on the Health and Human Services Committee, and 

5 is a very passionate advocate for children's 

6 health. And Pat had been prepared to talk about 

7 some of the health impacts of carbon emissions. 

8 So I regret that she won't be here with us today. 

9 But I'm happy to offer some remarks in her place.

10 I am a former state representative. I'm 

11 originally from Eastman, Georgia. My family has 

12 been in Georgia since the mid-1800s. So I really 

13 care about and love this state, and care about 

14 its special, beautiful, natural places.

15 I served in the legislature for 14 years 

16 and served on the Natural Resources Committee. 

17 And in the past three years, I've had the honor 

18 of heading up an environmental nonprofit law firm 

19 called GreenLaw. And we engage, on behalf of the 

20 Sierra Club, at the Public Service Commission 

21 here in Georgia, and we do a lot to promote, in 

22 particular, renewable energy and energy 

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1 efficiency. We will be engaging in the 111(d) 

2 implementation here at the state level.

3 I just want to commend the EPA for 

4 introducing these regulations, for having a 

5 public comment process, for allowing average 

6 citizens to come in and offer their opinions 

7 about these rules. It's really important.

8 I'm also a mother. I have two young 

9 children. I have a son with asthma, and I'm sure 

10 you've heard your share of asthma stories. But 

11 they're real, and they're personal. And anyone 

12 who has ever dealt with the health consequences 

13 of clean air can relate to how important it is to 

14 limit carbon emissions.

15 Here in Georgia, it's particularly 

16 important because the world's dirtiest carbon 

17 emitter by many different organizations is here 

18 in our state in Juliette, Plant Scherer.

19 What I think it's important to stress 

20 about these carbon regs is their flexibility and 

21 that each state can personalize and tailor the 

22 regulations so that it best meets the energy 

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1 needs of that state. Here in Georgia, I know at 

2 GreenLaw and the Sierra Club, whom we represent, 

3 we're going to be stressing especially energy 

4 efficiency. I consider that to be low-hanging 

5 fruit. It helps businesses save costs. And it 

6 helps reduce our carbon emissions.

7 I also think it's important for us to 

8 continue on the renewable energy path that 

9 Georgia is already on. We've made some great 

10 strides in solar energy in the past couple of 

11 years, particularly before the Public Service 

12 Commission, adding 525 additional megawatts of 

13 solar. So we're continuing on a path that we're 

14 already on.

15 We just had a docket before the Public 

16 Service Commission, for the first time ever in 

17 Georgia, to have wind energy in our state. And 

18 that's huge. It is purchased from the Midwest, 

19 but it's still adding energy -- adding wind 

20 energy to our portfolio.

21 So we're continuing on a path that we're 

22 already on. But we have a lot further to go. 

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1 Renewable is still less than 1 percent of our 

2 portfolio. So I hope that with these 

3 regulations, we'll see more renewables and more 

4 efficiencies.

5 The last thing I'll say is I'm sorry that 

6 this is in a room that has no windows. You're 

7 probably sorry about that, too. I just left a 

8 fabulous rally. Some of the folks with the blue 

9 shirts -- and I don't see any yellow -- I see a 

10 few yellow shirts. We were there. There were 

11 almost 400 people outside rallying in support of 

12 these carbon regs.

13 So I'm sorry that you're not there to 

14 know that they are many people who have really 

15 taken to the streets today, chanting. And we had 

16 bagpipes and bongo drums. And we're really 

17 rallying in strong support for these carbon 

18 regulations. So I want to commend the EPA for 

19 taking the initiative with this. And we strongly 

20 support the limits on carbon pollution.

21 Thank you.

22 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

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1 Questions?

2 [No audible response.] 

3 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

4 Our next two speakers will be Eleanor 

5 Hand and Chris Strippelhoff.

6 [Pause.] 

7 MS. KEMKER: Mr. Strippelhoff, you may 

8 begin when you're ready.

9 MR. STRIPPELHOFF: My name is Chris 

10 Strippelhoff, and I'm the Chief Membership 

11 Officer of the Municipal Gas Authority of 

12 Georgia. And the spelling of my last name is S13 t-r-i-p-p-e-l-h-o-f-f.

14 The Gas Authority is the largest 

15 nonprofit natural gas joint-action agency in the 

16 United States. We serve 78 municipally owned 

17 natural gas distribution systems in five states, 

18 as well as nine partner organizations.

19 Because future generations are dependent 

20 on our actions, the Gas Authority strongly 

21 believes in the effective stewardship of our 

22 environment and recognizes the unique and 

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1 important role natural gas plays in helping our 

2 nation achieve better air quality, while at the 

3 same time consuming our natural resources as 

4 responsibly as possible.

5 Natural gas, used efficiently and 

6 responsibly, has the potential to actually reduce 

7 overall energy expenditures for consumers, too.

8 Some have referred to natural gas as a 

9 "bridge fuel" to a sustainable energy future. 

10 And perhaps they're right. What we do know 

11 presently and are convinced of is the fact that 

12 the direct use of natural gas in thermal 

13 applications is the most efficient, clean, and 

14 cost-effective way in which to use this abundant 

15 domestic resource.

16 The role of natural gas is actually far 

17 more important than simply serving as the backup 

18 fuel for renewables. It has the potential to be 

19 the most effective tool in constructing truly 

20 successful demand-side energy efficiency 

21 programs.

22 In fact, maximizing direct use of natural 

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1 gas closest to the point of consumer application 

2 may be the single most effective way to help EPA 

3 meet its stated goals of cutting wasted energy, 

4 improving efficiency, and reducing pollution.

5 We cannot manage what we cannot measure, 

6 but what we measure must be meaningful. Because 

7 emissions are directly related to energy 

8 consumption, our universal focus must be on 

9 source efficiency. All other things being equal, 

10 less energy consumed equates to lower emissions. 

11 We must embrace an efficiency standard 

12 encompassing the full fuel cycle.

13 Very simply, we must consider the entire 

14 energy chain from source to site, and establish 

15 rules and policies accordingly. DOE has 

16 recognized the shortcomings of site-based 

17 analysis, as well as the National Academy of 

18 Sciences in the 2009 report. EPA's own Energy 

19 Star Portfolio Manager online tool already uses 

20 and promotes source-based energy analysis.

21 Let me give you an example of why this is 

22 so critical. I'll use the application of 

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1 residential water heating to make the point. The 

2 typical tank-style natural gas water heater 

3 consumes about 27 million BTU annually. Its 

4 electric counterpart consumes nearly 50 million 

5 BTU per year, nearly twice the energy.

6 Its electric counterpart requires --

7 excuse me. The natural gas unit emits CO2 at 

8 less than half the rate of an electric unit. In 

9 terms of energy costs, the consumer using natural 

10 gas pays $265 annually, while his neighbor 

11 relying on an electric unit pays $562.

12 Interestingly, sales of residential 

13 electric water heaters over the last 13 years 

14 were running neck-and-neck with gas water 

15 heaters, and in fact exceeded sales of gas units 

16 three years running. Why? Let me suggest two 

17 reasons. One, the yellow labels on appliances 

18 only report site-based efficiency figures. And 

19 two, many electric utilities are incentivizing 

20 consumers to purchase electric models.

21 Because of the current methodology of 

22 measuring efficiency only at the point of use, 

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1 yellow labels on appliances suggest to consumers 

2 that the electric water heater is more efficient 

3 and environmentally friendly. Nothing could be 

4 further from the truth.

5 The same logic applies to other thermal 

6 applications such as space-heating, cooking, and 

7 clothes-drying. It also applies to larger 

8 commercial and industrial applications such as 

9 combined heat and power.

10 We owe it to the consuming public to 

11 properly inform them. And if incentives are to 

12 be employed by utility companies, they should be 

13 offered such that consumers are purchasing the 

14 most efficient, environmentally friendly, and 

15 cost-effective appliances, again using the full 

16 fuel-cycle methodology.

17 In fact, it is past time to create a new 

18 appliance labeling program, perhaps moving to 

19 green labels, which could display true efficiency 

20 using the full fuel cycle and quantify the 

21 appliance's actual carbon footprint.

22 In addition to what I've shared here 

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1 verbally this afternoon, I've attached a couple 

2 of illustrations that I would respectfully ask be 

3 included in the record.

4 And on behalf of the Gas Authority, I 

5 wish to thank the EPA for conducting these public 

6 hearings. We're grateful for the opportunity to 

7 share our thoughts on the matter.

8 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

9 MR. STRIPPELHOFF: Thank you.

10 MS. KEMKER: Questions?

11 [No audible response.]

12 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

13 We'll make sure that gets in the record.

14 Our next two speakers are Irene Barton 

15 and Chandresh Ladva. And if I mispronounced 

16 that, I'm sorry.

17 [Pause.]

18 MS. KEMKER: Ms. Barton, if you'll begin 

19 when you're ready.

20 MS. BARTON: Thank you. Good afternoon. 

21 My name is Irene Barton, and I'm a resident of 

22 Cobb County, Georgia, and a member of the 

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1 Leadership Board of Mothers and Others for Clean 

2 Air, a regional partnership of leading public 

3 health, environmental, and child advocacy 

4 organizations dedicated to improving air quality.

5 We educate the public about the impact of 

6 air quality on ourselves, our children, and our 

7 communities. I thank the EPA for this 

8 opportunity to present my comments on the 

9 proposed Clean Power Plan. I am here today to 

10 speak about the health effects of carbon 

11 pollution on children.

12 I am the mother of two school-aged 

13 children, and I'm fortunate that neither one 

14 suffer from asthma and both are in overall good 

15 health. However, that does not give me the 

16 proverbial hall pass from being a concerned 

17 citizen and an advocate, not just for my family, 

18 but for others in my community who may not have 

19 the opportunity to share their story with you.

20 Unregulated carbon pollution hurts us all 

21 because it contributes to global climate 

22 disruption, leading to rising temperatures and 

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1 more air pollution.

2 Children are especially vulnerable, 

3 because their lungs grow long after they are 

4 born. Eighty percent of a child's tiny air sacs 

5 develop after birth and are not fully developed 

6 until they reach adulthood. They breathe at a 

7 higher rate than adults and spend more time 

8 outdoors engaged in vigorous physical activity.

9 The EPA's proposed limits on carbon 

10 pollution from power plants is a serious 

11 commitment to address this serious public health 

12 challenge of our day. Power plants remain the 

13 largest single source of carbon pollution 

14 emissions that are changing our climate in ways 

15 that currently threaten the health of millions of 

16 Americans and thousands of Georgians.

17 Carbon emissions from power plants set 

18 the stage for warmer temperatures, which can lead 

19 to ozone formation. Community health studies 

20 point to serious effects from year-round exposure 

21 to ozone, especially for children.

22 One recent study from the Northeast 

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1 concluded that living just four years in a region 

2 with high levels of ozone and other related co3 pollutants was associated with diminished lung 

4 function and frequent reports of respiratory 

5 symptoms.

6 Cobb, Fulton, DeKalb, Douglas, Gwinnett, 

7 and Rockdale Counties, with an estimated 

8 population of close to 3.5 million, all posted 

9 grades of F for ozone levels in the American Lung 

10 Association's State of the Air 2014 report.

11 As a mother, I'm concerned about my 

12 children's health and their future health. My 

13 children spend a fair amount of time outdoors 

14 with their activities, including marching band 

15 and soccer. I myself run outdoors four to five 

16 times a week. I'm worried about the earth my 

17 children will inherit, especially with hotter 

18 summers making it more likely we will have highly 

19 polluted days.

20 The National Oceanic and Atmospheric 

21 Administration reports that June 2014 was the 

22 globe's warmest in 134 years of recordkeeping. 

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1 Indeed, the entire first half of 2014 has been 

2 warm. According to another international agency, 

3 June marks the third month in a row of record 

4 high temperatures.

5 In addition, the newly released National 

6 Climate Assessment Report asserts that ground7 level ozone is projected to increase in the 

8 Southeast, leading to increases in respiratory 

9 and cardiovascular illnesses, including emphysema 

10 and asthma.

11 We are now faced with the fact that the 

12 quality of our air is negatively impacting 

13 children who are otherwise healthy.

14 I am fortunate to be able to spend a 

15 significant amount of time volunteering in 

16 schools and interacting with parents, teachers, 

17 and other faculty members. I mentioned 

18 advocating for children. One in ten children in 

19 Georgia have asthma, and African American 

20 children are more than twice as likely as white 

21 children to have asthma.

22 Children who are ill have higher 

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1 absenteeism rates. They have difficulty 

2 focusing, mastering new material, and struggle 

3 academically. Simply put, a child who cannot 

4 breathe cannot learn. He or she struggles to 

5 complete homework, prepare for tests, complete 

6 projects, and often cannot participate in 

7 extracurricular activities that lead to a well8 rounded student.

9 Georgia's high school graduation rate was 

10 71.5 percent in 2013, certainly nothing to brag 

11 about. But our children deserve every 

12 opportunity to learn, including environmental 

13 opportunities to graduate and to be contributing 

14 members of our communities.

15 When scientific research tells us that 

16 the health of our communities is being impacted 

17 by something that we have the power to change, we 

18 have a moral obligation to protect our children 

19 and future generations.

20 The EPA's plan to cap carbon pollution 

21 from power plants is the fastest way to make our 

22 air cleaner and protect our children's health. I

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1 urge the EPA to set a final standard within the 

2 year. Anything less shortchanges our children, 

3 our health, and our future. 

4 Thank you.

5 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

6 Mr. Ladva.

7 MR. LADVA: So, good afternoon. My name 

8 is Chandresh Ladva. That's C-h-a-n-d-r-e-s-h L9 a-d-v-a.

10 I'm a doctoral candidate in Environmental 

11 Health Sciences at Emory University, and study 

12 air pollution as my dissertation work. And I 

13 also hold a Master's of Public Health and 

14 Epidemiology from Yale University.

15 So, these experiences have kind of 

16 compelled me to go into this direction of 

17 studying air pollution for a variety of reasons. 

18 I was born in the Central Valley of California. 

19 It is not known to have the cleanest air quality 

20 in the nation; in fact, where I grew up and spent 

21 18 years of my life ranks highly -- in fact, I 

22 think the worst air pollution in the United 

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1 States year after year. Good old Bakersfield, 

2 California.

3 Now, I left. I consider myself a little 

4 fortunate. But my parents are still there, and 

5 they're aging.

6 What I've noticed from even after I've 

7 left that the droughts that California faces have 

8 gotten worse. They're regular. They happen 

9 periodically, and they're not surprising. But 

10 they have consistently gotten worse. And these 

11 droughts have left to drier areas and drier 

12 seasons, where we have more wildfires.

13 And what does this make? For an area 

14 that, like Bakersfield, California, that always 

15 has had poor air quality based on its location 

16 and where it is in the basin, it creates really 

17 challenging air quality for people like my 

18 parents, who are in their 70s, and even though 

19 without having asthma, find it difficult to go 

20 out for a walk, which their cardiologists 

21 recommend.

22 So, it's been something that I thought I 

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1 had left behind. But I moved here to Georgia. 

2 And I find out that, three years ago when I moved 

3 here, Georgia was also in a drought. And 

4 according to their records, it was the longest 

5 drought that they've had in the -- since they've 

6 recorded it.

7 So, clearly this is something, these are 

8 changes that are happening within my short 

9 lifespan, things that you would expect to happen 

10 over long geologic time scales, but we're 

11 observing things much more quickly, and through 

12 anecdotal patterns that people can just tell you 

13 about.

14 So, regulating carbon emissions from 

15 power generation, which is a very large source 

16 that people have been testifying time and time 

17 again today, and overall improving the grid 

18 efficiency works toward reducing our human impact 

19 on climate change. Focusing on the key resource 

20 of carbon emissions not only provides the use of 

21 -- an efficient use of resources against -- well, 

22 towards reducing our carbon footprint, but also 

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1 provides a platform for innovation.

2 So this is the second point I really 

3 wanted to bring out. Industry and academic 

4 scientists have been working on climate change5 related science for a long time now. And 

6 imposing a regulation on carbon emissions and 

7 capping them should galvanize research in both 

8 sectors to work towards a singular aspect of a 

9 very complex problem on air pollution exposures.

10 And these problems impact both the 

11 environment and immediate human health. So, with 

12 great successes that we've had with the NAAQS, 

13 the National Ambient Air Quality Standards, you 

14 say, "Okay. In 10 years, let's try to meet this 

15 level." And what happens is that we beat it. 

16 And we lower the NAAQS again, and we go ahead and 

17 we try to beat them again.

18 I think this, having a carbon emissions 

19 cap, is a step that will follow in the same 

20 pattern. We will have an opportunity to innovate 

21 while focusing our attention specifically on 

22 greenhouse gases like CO2 and particulate matter 

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1 emissions from power facilities.

2 And this proposition is actually a boon 

3 for Georgia. We have great scientific resources 

4 available to us. There's Emory, Georgia Tech, 

5 there's Georgia State, Georgia Power, even. 

6 There's science everywhere happening here.

7 So, to galvanize and to really focus all 

8 of this intellectual power that this region has 

9 towards reducing carbon emissions will not only 

10 provide incentives for people like me to stay in 

11 Georgia and to work in Georgia in these 

12 capacities, but in general, contribute to expand 

13 the scientific capital of the region.

14 So, I'd like to thank you for allowing me 

15 to speak to you today. And, yeah, that's it. 

16 Thank you.

17 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

18 Our next two speakers are Angela Garrone 

19 and Steve Halsted.

20 And I would remind you to hold your 

21 applause, because we will be trying to move 

22 through and give everyone an opportunity to 

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1 speak.

2 [Pause.] 

3 MS. KEMKER: Ms. Garrone.

4 MS. GARRONE: It's Garrone.

5 MS. KEMKER: Garrone. I'm sorry.

6 MS. GARRONE: It's Italian.

7 [Laughter.]

8 MS. KEMKER: You may begin when you're 

9 ready.

10 MS. GARRONE: Thank you. Good afternoon. 

11 My name is Angela Garrone. That's G-a-r-r-o-n-e. 

12 And I'm an attorney with the Southern Alliance 

13 for Clean Energy based out of Knoxville, 

14 Tennessee.

15 I'd like to thank you for having us, 

16 giving us this opportunity on two days to speak 

17 to you about the Clean Power Plan.

18 Now, our organization works to promote 

19 clean energy solutions for the Southeast that 

20 help protect our families from the dangers of 

21 carbon-intensive forms of energy production like 

22 coal-fired power plants, and to help build a new 

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1 clean energy economy that will bring much-needed 

2 jobs to our region.

3 And for this reason, we thank EPA for 

4 including renewable energy and energy efficiency 

5 resources as compliance options in the proposed 

6 Clean Power Plan.

7 In order to reduce our nation's carbon 

8 emissions, we need a creative approach that takes 

9 advantage of the carbon-saving energy 

10 technologies that are already available, like 

11 solar, wind, and energy efficiency resources.

12 Business as usual won't cut it. Just as 

13 the Pony Express and landline phone companies had 

14 to face facts that their industry is antiquated, 

15 so much now the coal industry.

16 I'd like to thank EPA for doing something 

17 also that Congress has failed to do, and that is 

18 set meaningful limits on carbon emissions from 

19 our nation's power sector. We've heard a lot of 

20 pushback from coal-dependent states and industry 

21 that EPA has overstepped its reach in 

22 establishing the Clean Power Plan, and that EPA 

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1 should have just left that job to Congress.

2 Without pointing out the obvious, which 

3 is that our stagnant Congress is having a hard 

4 time passing any legislation, I'd like to 

5 recognize that EPA is regulating carbon emissions 

6 using the Clean Air Act, which was created by an 

7 act of Congress back when Congress worked 

8 together to address important issues like air 

9 pollution.

10 The great amount of input that EPA 

11 solicited from the private sector before even 

12 proposing the Clean Power Plan is a great example 

13 of regulators working with industry to create a 

14 flexible solution to a huge problem like climate 

15 change. The rule gives states maximum 

16 flexibility in meeting carbon emission limits 

17 that were especially created to fit each state's 

18 unique energy mix.

19 Now, the Southeast disproportionately 

20 contributes to national carbon pollution levels 

21 due to its abundance of coal-fired power plants, 

22 as the Southeast is home to almost 270 coal units 

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1 that collectively emit over 366 million tons of 

2 carbon dioxide annually.

3 Unlike other states across the country 

4 like Vermont and Washington, Southeastern states 

5 have not been as willing to reduce their reliance 

6 on coal-fired energy and make way for the current 

7 available forms of clean energy production.

8 We have seen some of our utilities take 

9 the lead in retiring coal plants and building 

10 new, cleaner generation sources like our own 

11 Tennessee Valley Authority. But many are wasting 

12 ratepayer money to prop up old, inefficient, 

13 dirty coal plants.

14 It is our hope that the Clean Power Plan 

15 can serve as a tool to push states to recognize 

16 the realities of coal-fired power. It threatens 

17 our health, endangers our waterways, increases 

18 climate change pollution, and is no longer the 

19 cheapest source of energy.

20 We should embrace clean energy sources 

21 that can provide cost-effective reliable power to 

22 our region and bring jobs to communities that 

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1 desperately need them. We are also hopeful that 

2 the Southeast will take advantage of the regional 

3 compliance plan that EPA has provided so that we 

4 can all work together across our states to come 

5 up with a plan that helps our region grow as a 

6 leader in clean energy production while also 

7 decreasing our region's contribution to carbon 

8 pollution.

9 As a native Southerner and proudly 

10 hailing from Memphis, Tennessee, I'd love to see 

11 my region become part of the solution to climate 

12 change rather than part of the problem.

13 Thank you.

14 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

15 Mr. Halsted.

16 REV. HALSTED: Good afternoon. I'm the 

17 Reverend Steve Halsted, and I'm Pastor of 

18 Community United Church of Christ in Raleigh, 

19 North Carolina.

20 And I'm here in Atlanta for two reasons. 

21 One is to provide testimony today as a faith 

22 leader and as clergy representative of North 

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1 Carolina Interfaith Power and Light, which is a 

2 statewide organization addressing the ecological 

3 injustice issues of climate change as a faith4 based initiative.

5 The second reason I'm here is that I 

6 dedicate my testimony today to my newest 

7 granddaughter. She is Emory Olivia Halsted, born 

8 June 30th, just recently, which also happens to 

9 be my birthday, and I turn 65. I have a picture 

10 of her.

11 [Laughter.]

12 REV. HALSTED: Shouldn't all good 

13 grandparents do that? Carry a picture around?

14 Anyways, I dedicate this testimony to her 

15 and all other children, future generations who 

16 will be affected by climate change. They need 

17 our generation to stand up for them and to ask 

18 for reasonable, rational safeguards towards 

19 carbon pollution that the EPA is doing. So I 

20 thank you for that.

21 And you can implement these, and you can 

22 ensure that they are able to mitigate the harmful 

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1 effects of carbon pollution.

2 The North Carolina Interfaith Power and 

3 Light program is part of the North Carolina 

4 Council of Churches. In this role, we provide 

5 access to the council's membership of over 6,200 

6 congregations. The North Carolina Council of 

7 Churches is comprised of 25 distinct judicatories 

8 from 17 different denominations and over 1.5 

9 million people. And so, we're here with their 

10 support today.

11 The Interfaith Power and Light group also 

12 is affiliated in 40 different states across the 

13 country, with over 15,000 congregations that are 

14 affiliated with it.

15 As people of faith, we feel we're called 

16 to care for God's creation and God's people, 

17 especially the most vulnerable among us. And we 

18 have a moral obligation to address the profound 

19 impacts of the way that we produce and use energy 

20 in the world today.

21 In addition to protecting our climate, 

22 curbing pollution from power plants offers many 

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1 other benefits. We've heard about some of those, 

2 asthma and other health benefits, which will save 

3 lives, reduce health risks, those suffering from 

4 heart disease and respiratory ailments.

5 My 90-year-old mother suffers from these 

6 kinds of lung conditions because of pollution in 

7 the environment. And I have another 

8 granddaughter who has asthma, severe asthma at 

9 times induced from this particular -- from those 

10 toxic wastes.

11 So these are real concerns that we need 

12 to address and that we will address in the church 

13 community as people of faith, because they impact 

14 people's lives. And we're here to support and 

15 protect them.

16 As the United Church of Christ pastor and 

17 clergy representative to N.C. Interfaith Power 

18 and Light, I'm really proud that our Executive 

19 Minister for Justice and Witness Ministries in 

20 the United Church of Christ, Reverend Linda 

21 Jaramillo, publicly proclaimed in these words: 

22 "The United Church of Christ applauds the Obama 

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1 administration's efforts to take real action on 

2 climate change.

3 "A proposal like the one introduced by 

4 the EPA has been a long time coming, and it is 

5 just the first of many steps that need to be 

6 taken by the U.S. Government and big business to 

7 begin to curtail the damage that has already been 

8 done to our precious earth."

9 A sidelight to that, the United Church of 

10 Christ is the first major denomination to de11 invest from fossil fuels. And that's a big 

12 thing. And we've just heard about the World 

13 Council of Churches doing the same thing.

14 President Obama and the EPA are acting on 

15 our moral obligation to address unlimited carbon 

16 pollution coming from the nation's power plants, 

17 which is the single largest source of global 

18 warming pollution in our country.

19 The new standards will help usher in 

20 clean energy solutions like improved efficiency, 

21 along with solar power and wind power, things 

22 that the North Carolina Interfaith Power and 

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1 Light congregations have already been pushing for 

2 and actually implementing. Congregations are 

3 putting solar panels on their properties in order 

4 to help to deal with this issue.

5 Emerging wind and solar companies have 

6 been sort of like a David and Goliath, in 

7 Biblical terms, in the struggle against the well8 funded coal and gas industries. And these new 

9 standards will create a dynamic towards cleaner 

10 energy. It will have that kind of effect.

11 These days, faith and science are close 

12 allies. The science is clear and peer-proven 

13 that global warming and climate change in our 

14 time is human-induced by our tremendous emissions 

15 of carbon into the air, causing carbon pollution 

16 and the greenhouse effect. And science tells us 

17 this reality, even though some would try and put 

18 their heads in the sand. But we know this 

19 through science. It's clear.

20 We want to also use the role of the faith 

21 community to give us the moral imperative to 

22 change our lifestyles and to safeguard our 

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1 environment for future generations and the 

2 welfare of all of humanity. It's not just the 

3 people in the U.S.; this affects the world --

4 MS. KEMKER: Reverend Halsted.

5 REV. HALSTED: -- and all of God's 

6 creation.

7 MS. KEMKER: Thank you. If you'll wrap 

8 up, that will be great.

9 REV. HALSTED: Okay. Just a couple more 

10 things.

11 So, I just want to get across that 

12 climate change is a moral issue. And the faith 

13 community is the community that's raising this as 

14 a moral issue that we need to address, and we 

15 need to do it fast. And we need these standards 

16 put in place in order to do that. They will be a 

17 great help.

18 So, thank you all for doing that, and 

19 thank you for allowing me to speak.

20 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

21 Questions?

22 [No audible response.] 

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1 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

2 Our next speakers are the Reverend Gerald 

3 Durley and Jackie Carter.

4 [Pause.] 

5 MS. KEMKER: Reverend, if you'll begin 

6 when you're ready.

7 REV. DURLEY: I was a little shook up 

8 when I saw you stop that last preacher. But I'll 

9 be short.

10 [Laughter.]

11 MS. KEMKER: That's a first for me.

12 REV. DURLEY: First of all, thank you 

13 very much for the few minutes that you've allowed 

14 me to speak today. I'm Reverend Dr. Gerald 

15 Durley, Pastor Emeritus of Providence Missionary 

16 Baptist Church, former Dean of Clark Atlanta 

17 University here in Georgia, and also the former 

18 Director of the Health Promotion Resource Center 

19 and Morehouse School of Medicine.

20 I joined up with Dr. King in 1959 and 

21 been in the movement for almost 54 years now on 

22 movements where civil and human rights issues are 

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1 concerned. And so today, we come to really share 

2 from our perspective before the EPA.

3 The people suffering from climate change 

4 are often overshadowed by images of polar bears 

5 and vanishing ice caps in the public psyche. 

6 Their faces can be found not in the Arctic or off 

7 the distant future, but in our schools and in our 

8 churches and in our homes and all across America.

9 In the wake of climate change, which 

10 scientists believe contribute to the extreme 

11 weather like Hurricane Katrina and Sandy, I and 

12 other faith leaders began recognizing our moral 

13 obligation to act and increase the level of 

14 awareness about the devastating effects of 

15 climate change.

16 While some, including lawmakers, continue 

17 to deny its existence despite overwhelming 

18 scientific evidence, climate change has proven to 

19 be one of the greatest threats of our time --

20 MS. CARTER: Slow down.

21 REV. DURLEY: Hm?

22 MS. CARTER: Slow down! Continue.

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1 REV. DURLEY: Why are you telling me to 

2 slow down?

3 MS. CARTER: She did it.

4 REV. DURLEY: Oh.

5 MS. CARTER: Keep preaching!

6 [Laughter.]

7 REV. DURLEY: First time I've had a 

8 female deacon stop me in the middle of saying 

9 what I want to do.

10 [Laughter.]

11 REV. DURLEY: Help me.

12 [Laughter.]

13 REV. DURLEY: The American Lung 

14 Association finds that more than 20.2 million 

15 people in poverty are living in areas that 

16 receive at least one failing grade for its air 

17 pollutants, and 4.5 million in poverty are 

18 breathing air that fails all three of the ALA's 

19 air pollution tests.

20 Can you imagine? Sixty-eight percent of 

21 African Americans live within 30 miles of a coal 

22 plant, dangerously close for the one in six 

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1 African American kids that has asthma, compared 

2 to one in ten nationwide. Filthy air streaming 

3 from power plants increase risk of asthma 

4 attacks, which harms black children at a much 

5 higher rate.

6 According to the United States Department 

7 of Health and Human Services Office of Minority 

8 Health, black children are in fact 3.6 times more 

9 likely to visit the emergency room for asthma as 

10 compared to white children.

11 When communities were threatened when we 

12 were back in the movement, we organized, 

13 strategized, and mobilized to ensure that our 

14 voices were heard and that our cause was 

15 recognized. Today, our health, economic 

16 stability, and lifestyles are being severely 

17 challenged because of carbon pollution, extreme 

18 climate changes, and unusual weather patterns.

19 That's why I and countless other faith 

20 leaders across America support EPA's Clean Power 

21 Plan, which would place the first limits on 

22 carbon pollution from power plants. The plan 

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1 will cut carbon pollution by 30 percent by 2030, 

2 and that will be below 22.2 -- 25 levels, 

3 providing up to 93 billion in climate and public 

4 health benefits.

5 The EPA projects these limits will 

6 prevent up to 6,600 premature deaths, up to 

7 150,000 asthma attacks in children, and up to 

8 490,000 missed work days and schooldays in 2013 

9 [sic].

10 It will also, if implemented, will 

11 prevent 3,300 heart attacks and up to 2,800 

12 hospital admissions. I don't say these figures 

13 for political fodder -- we play the game of 

14 politics here and there -- but to stress the need 

15 for immediate attention to limiting carbon 

16 pollution in our society.

17 Calling for moral and ethical 

18 accountability for human dignity and lies is 

19 nothing new, but those of us who faced the same 

20 neglect when they said that we couldn't vote, 

21 when they said that we couldn't eat at the lunch 

22 counter, when they said that we couldn't purchase 

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1 a home anywhere we wanted to -- we're back to 

2 that. This is a political and a moral issue.

3 We believe that, as we do now, that these 

4 are constitutional human rights. Cutting carbon 

5 pollution by 30 percent by 2030 is a way of 

6 demonstrating that we -- that the right to clean 

7 air and water is a civil and a human rights 

8 issue.

9 Considering the long-term health effects 

10 and rising funeral expenses of millions of people 

11 living within cities and close to these plants 

12 and refineries is more important than considering 

13 what it might cost industry to take steps. They 

14 need to get the plants cleaned up, put a little 

15 money now, because funeral costs are rising.

16 So, I thank you today for allowing us to 

17 come. We want you to stay the course. Don't 

18 back up. Don't bend down. Don't turn around. 

19 We need you. We will be there for you, and any 

20 movement that's ever had its salt always started 

21 with the people, started with the facts, and 

22 faith and science are not in opposition to each 

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1 other.

2 We're working together, and we appreciate 

3 this opportunity. And tell Sister McCarthy, 

4 "Stay in there, and don't turn around."

5 MS. CARTER: Can I get a "Amen"?

6 [Chorus of "Amen!"]

7 REV. DURLEY: Thank you, Deacon.

8 MS. CARTER: I apologize for 

9 interrupting.

10 MS. KEMKER: Any questions from the 

11 panel?

12 [No audible response.] 

13 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

14 REV. DURLEY: You're certainly welcome.

15 MS. KEMKER: Ms. Carter.

16 MS. CARTER: Yes?

17 MS. KEMKER: You may begin.

18 MS. CARTER: Okay. Okay. Thank you for 

19 speaking before me. If anyone, I'm glad it's 

20 you. Okay. 

21 So, good afternoon. My name is 

22 Jacquelyn, J-a-c-q-u-e-l-y-n, not l-i-n-e, 

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1 Carter, C-a-r-t-e-r.

2 Next. I am an intern for the Sierra 

3 Student Coalition through the Sierra Club, a 

4 grass-roots organization and nonprofit which 

5 truly is a people-over-profit bipartisan 

6 coalition.

7 I am also a student from St. Louis 

8 University, a Jesuit Catholic, or so-called 

9 Jesuit Catholic, institution in St. Louis, 

10 Missouri. I am also a student in solidarity with 

11 WashU Students Against Peabody, which had a 17-

12 day sit-in this last April.

13 First of all, you all look as though you 

14 haven't laughed in awhile -- I wrote this down --

15 but being in politics and all. So, please, help 

16 me out here and let me see you smile.

17 [Laughter.]

18 MS. CARTER: Wow, those are so kind of 

19 genuine.

20 [Laughter.]

21 MS. CARTER: Okay. Thanks. Beautiful, 

22 and now it's time to get serious.

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1 I would like to thank the Environmental 

2 Protection Agency for giving young citizens 

3 without suits, so to speak, like me, the 

4 privilege of speaking here today. I truly 

5 respect the EPA and your mission to address and 

6 improve public health in America, while 

7 supporting a strong social and environmentally 

8 just economy and therefore addressing 

9 socioeconomic inequality in the United States.

10 Please notice the specific words I used, 

11 such as "privilege." I emphasize this word to 

12 remind you of what you already know, that though 

13 we live in a democracy, not all populations are 

14 fairly accounted for due to having less 

15 privilege, less money, and less documentation 

16 than some.

17 The point I'm getting at here is this. I 

18 am a young person, a woman, who may have children 

19 in the future, whatever, who supports the 

20 proposed Clean Power Plan, or the initiative, at 

21 least.

22 I support its framework to make 

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1 significant progress in the states, but I must, 

2 of course, as an environmentalist, need to admit 

3 that this plan does not do much overall in 

4 solving the problem of climate disruption by 

5 itself.

6 That being said, it is still a step. It 

7 is the first of its kind in American history, 

8 which ya'll know. And so thank you for that. 

9 Thank you, and do not follow, quote, the advice 

10 of a privileged public service commissioner of 

11 Georgia, who told you, "Leave us alone."

12 [Laughter.]

13 MS. CARTER: Because, next page, I come 

14 from Missouri, a state whose legislature, and 

15 thus its state constitution, is heavily 

16 influenced by the privilege, the power, and the 

17 money of Peabody Energy and Arch Coal. And it's 

18 no secret just this month Governor Nixon passed a 

19 state amendment that is in favor of coal, not its 

20 people, especially not its people of low income, 

21 the youth, the elderly, and racially 

22 discriminated against communities -- so, St. 

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1 Louis itself.

2 The mandating -- your mandating power, in 

3 fact, is needed when justice is being sacrificed 

4 and exchanged for corporate special interests, 

5 for example, Peabody Energy and its allies. In 

6 Missouri -- and yes, I'm aware that we're in the 

7 Southeast. I come from Tennessee, so -- but it's 

8 the EPA. You're federal.

9 Okay. Moving on. In Missouri -- okay, 

10 you're wealthy. Anyways, in Missouri, Ameren 

11 Utility Corporation uses coal for about 75 

12 percent of its electricity -- see, this is --

13 whatever. You already know this.

14 REV. DURLEY: You got to slow down.

15 [Laughter.]

16 MS. CARTER: Stop laughing.

17 While the national average is less than 

18 that, less than 75 percent, and dropping.

19 Until October 16th, you will hear an 

20 overwhelming and an overpowering voice from those 

21 with a lot of privilege, a lot of money, and a 

22 lot of power. But remember, your agency is --

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1 who your agency is here to protect. Remember our 

2 environment, because we all share the same United 

3 States, same environment.

4 Remember our environmentally and socially 

5 sustainable goals that came before American 

6 legislative -- whatever -- executive council, or 

7 ALEC, for short, was implemented in all 50 states 

8 with billionaire corporations -- that's not 

9 beeping -- corporations funding their plans 

10 against action on climate change, such as Peabody 

11 Energy.

12 And I don't need statistics to explain 

13 how dirty coal is. And fossil fuel and nuclear 

14 industries and their political allies can't buy 

15 statistics that are not true.

16 So, my last words here -- we, the 

17 American people, not just environmentalists, but 

18 also people who promote justice, want and need 

19 this initiative, not because we think it will be 

20 easy, but because it is necessary for our future, 

21 and so I can see you smile again.

22 Thank you.

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1 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

2 Questions?

3 MS. CARTER: Questions? No.

4 MS. KEMKER: Our next speakers are Keith 

5 Thomas and Maribel Balbin.

6 [Pause.] 

7 MR. THOMAS: Should I let this young lady 

8 go first?

9 MS. BALBIN: Never.

10 [Simultaneous conversation.]

11 MS. KEMKER: Mr. Thomas, would you begin 

12 when you're ready?

13 MR. THOMAS: Okay. Good afternoon. I am 

14 Keith Thomas, Business Manager of the Atlanta and 

15 North Georgia Building Construction Trades 

16 Council. I am speaking to your committee today 

17 on behalf of nearly 25,000 union members, their 

18 families, and all of the skilled construction 

19 workers that help promote Georgia's economy each 

20 and every day.

21 A great number of skilled construction 

22 workers find employment on power facilities and 

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1 are at risk for job losses under the proposed 

2 rule changes by the EPA.

3 Over the past five years or so, the 

4 construction industry itself has been devastated 

5 due to our economy. In addition, we are starting 

6 to come out of the recession, power plants are 

7 now being scheduled to close. The stoppage of 

8 these facilities will generate a harmful effect 

9 on jobs, workers, their family, and again our 

10 economy.

11 Here in Georgia, it is becoming a set 

12 pattern to close many of the power plant 

13 facilities that once were places for gainful 

14 employment for hundreds of construction tradesmen 

15 and women. Plants such as Arkwright in Macon, 

16 Atkinson and Jack McDonough in Smyrna, Georgia, 

17 had already gone -- Plant Harlee Branch in 

18 Milledgeville and Plant Mitchell in Albany --

19 excuse me a second. I've got too many pages 

20 here.

21 [Pause.]

22 MR. THOMAS: Those two plants are 

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1 scheduled to be decommissioned, closed, or torn 

2 down in the near future.

3 Currently, the EPA does not give state 

4 credit for the reductions that have already been 

5 made through coal and other fossil plant 

6 retirement. They do, however, tout the 

7 reductions from 2005 levels in the press. The 

8 EPA's rules does not give states credit for the 

9 reductions made since then.

10 The EPA should recognize those reductions 

11 rather than forcing even greater cuts in the 

12 future. The EPA regulations for power plants 

13 here in Georgia and across the United States are 

14 forcing significant job loss, not only for the 

15 construction trades, but for many other sectors 

16 of working communities that support those 

17 facilities.

18 Job losses from these power plant 

19 closures affect the importance of jobs in a 

20 strong economy. We are concerned the EPA's rules 

21 fail to strike the right balance between 

22 important and sometimes competing goals for jobs 

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1 in a strong economy.

2 Our construction trades have the same 

3 goals as the EPA. We support efforts and 

4 procedures to ensure there is clean air and water 

5 that our employees and our communities are 

6 protected. We also understand the need to 

7 respond to the threat of climate change to 

8 protect current and future generations here in

9 Georgia.

10 Over the past two decades, Georgia Power 

11 and Southern Company have gone to extreme 

12 measures to upgrade and implement environmentally 

13 friendly components to their existing facilities. 

14 These are goals that are important to them and 

15 ensure a fair, better quality of life for all 

16 here in the South.

17 We understand that the EPA's efforts are 

18 to make our environment safe. However, the EPA 

19 has to recognize that a safe environment alone 

20 cannot provide a good quality of life for all 

21 Americans. Access to affordable options that 

22 provide a safe and productive means for the 

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1 environment are necessary.

2 We believe that Georgia Power and 

3 Southern Company are working to create economical 

4 growth and jobs for skilled tradesmen and women 

5 here in the South, while also providing reliable 

6 and cost-efficiency energy that is affordable to 

7 workers and their families.

8 The new movement to extract and produce 

9 power with natural gas known as "fracking" 

10 affects not only the quality air, but also 

11 creates measures of contamination in the 

12 environment for existing water supplies. It is a 

13 toxic method of natural gas extraction that not 

14 only poisons water, but it generates cancer15 causing air emissions.

16 Every step of the fracking process is 

17 dangerous. Chemicals can spill or seep into the 

18 drinking water. Supplies in the generation of 

19 air pollution put communities at greater risk of 

20 disease such as cancer and asthma, and exposure 

21 to qualities of wastewater that would be dumped 

22 into the environment.

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1 In closing, I would like for you to think 

2 about the comments I have made today and consider 

3 whether or not we should be attacking the coal 

4 industry. It seems like we are consenting to the 

5 transition and use of energy sources that will 

6 become some of the worse fabricators of future 

7 energy.

8 New generation sources may become 

9 polluters of our environment and eliminate future 

10 jobs for future generations. I personally 

11 believe that I can withstand the sources and 

12 options of energy and power coming from coal 

13 rather than from those coming from the poisoned 

14 fracturing process already underway across our 

15 country.

16 I appreciate ya'll's time today. I know 

17 you got a tough job. It's not easy. But I hope 

18 that you will consider both sides, and try to 

19 bring everybody to the table in making this 

20 decision so we all win with it. 

21 Thank you so much.

22 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

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1 Ms. Balbin.

2 MS. BALBIN: Good afternoon. Buenas 

3 tardes. Maribel Balbin, M-a-r-i-b-e-l B-a-l-b-i4 n. My name is Maribel Balbin, President of the 

5 League of Women Voters of Miami Dade County, 

6 speaking today on behalf of the League of Women 

7 Voters of Florida and all of our members. We 

8 speak in one voice with the national league in 

9 support of the Clean Power Plan rule.

10 I thank you for the opportunity presented 

11 to me today to testify on this most important of 

12 issues.

13 I came to this country 46 years ago and 

14 lived in Miami Dade County ever since. My family 

15 fled the Cuban Communist Revolution. As an exile 

16 in Miami, I feel once again threatened that I may 

17 be forced from my home. This time, I'm being 

18 threatened by a slow-building environmental 

19 disaster.

20 It might take decades, but eventually, 

21 rising sea levels may make living in Miami 

22 impossible. My 78-year-old mother believes that 

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1 exile will be experienced by her grandchildren. 

2 This will be, this time, climate-change exile.

3 As a public administrator, I've spent 

4 most of my professional life working for agencies 

5 and projects focused on the protection of the 

6 very fragile South Florida environment. My years 

7 in the South Florida Water Management District 

8 allow me to see firsthand the intricate processes 

9 that are involved in keeping our region dry and 

10 protecting the Everglades. A system of canals 

11 and flood-control structures work 24-7 moving 

12 fresh water out to sea.

13 I've experienced the impact of flooding 

14 associated with torrential downpours and tropical 

15 storms. I have walked in knee-high water that 

16 would sit for hours without any place to go. 

17 Emergency crews from various public agencies were 

18 brought in to pump this standing water out of 

19 low-lying communities in Miami Dade, only to have 

20 it flood back in within a few hours.

21 Massive pumps were eventually installed 

22 to protect two small cities where these problems 

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1 occurred repeatedly during the past decade. 

2 These small-scale efforts may be the model for 

3 saving the rest of the metropolitan region.

4 I've witnessed the impacts of the full 

5 moon and high tide in Miami Beach. On a clear 

6 night, you can go out to a restaurant, enjoy 

7 dinner, and there would be water covering the 

8 sidewalks when you leave -- not because there has 

9 been a water main break, but because the ocean 

10 has backed up through the storm-water drainage 

11 system.

12 In recent months, we've seen the 

13 headlines and magazine covers about the South 

14 Florida region -- "Miami, the next lost city of 

15 Atlantis"; "Why the city is doomed to drown" --

16 and the classification of ground zero.

17 Florida residents have become very 

18 familiarized with what climate change is and how 

19 it relates to our daily lives. A statewide poll 

20 conducted last week by the National Resources 

21 Defense Council shows that 71 percent of 

22 Floridians believe that climate change is a 

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1 serious issue, and 77 percent specifically 

2 support this Clean Power Plan rule.

3 We get it. Imagine -- Florida getting 

4 something.

5 [Laughter.]

6 MS. BALBIN: And the Southeast Florida 

7 counties have developed a climate action plan 

8 that includes 110 recommendations. Conventional 

9 wisdom says, and we know that carbon emissions 

10 cause the earth's surface temperature to rise, 

11 and the oceans absorb most of this heat.

12 We're listening to the scientists. And 

13 they're very clear in their message. Sea-level 

14 rise is linked to three primary factors, which 

15 are all included, induced by ongoing climate 

16 change.

17 One, thermal expansion. When water heats 

18 up, it expands. About half of the past century's 

19 rise in sea level is attributed to warmer ocean 

20 simply occupying more space. Number two, the 

21 melting the glaciers. And number three, the 

22 shrinking of polar ice caps.

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1 In 2012, 47 scientists reported that 

2 Greenland and Antarctica are losing more than 

3 three times as much ice each year than they were 

4 in the 1990s. Reducing carbon emissions would 

5 have a direct effect on how hot our oceans get 

6 and how fast our glaciers and ice caps melt.

7 I'm here today to tell you that we 

8 support EPA's Clean Power Plan rule and ask the 

9 rest of the nation to do the same. 

10 Thank you very much.

11 [Pause.]

12 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

13 MS. BALBIN: Thank you for the 

14 opportunity.

15 MS. KEMKER: Our next speakers are Nina 

16 McCoy and Laura Turner-Seidell.

17 [Pause.] 

18 MS. McCOY: It's Nina McCoy.

19 MS. KEMKER: Nina. Thank you so much.

20 MS. McCOY: N-i-n-a- M-c-C-o-y.

21 I'm Nina McCoy. I'm from Inez, Kentucky. 

22 1976, that was the first year that I had heard of 

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1 the greenhouse effect, is what we called it at 

2 the time. I heard it from a fellow college

3 freshman. I was 18. 1979, Dr. Keeney told our 

4 environmental studies class about the coral, the 

5 sort of infighting between the scientific and 

6 political communities about the carbon dioxide 

7 studies that had been conducted since 1958.

8 And then, of course, we went through the 

9 Reagan years, where it was just all about cow 

10 flatulence, and those pine trees were causing the 

11 acid rain.

12 But in 1983, when I started teaching, I 

13 knew that it was a big part of my job to make 

14 sure that my biology students, my high school 

15 biology students, became citizens who understood 

16 how important it was to protect the environment 

17 and to leave behind a better place than --

18 instead of harming it.

19 So we did cleanups. We did all sorts of 

20 things. And I taught global warming even when it

21 wasn't in the textbooks. But the kids had all 

22 heard of it, and they were worried about those 

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1 polar icecaps. Even from 1984, they were worried 

2 about those polar icecaps. So it's not something 

3 new.

4 Then in 2008, an environmental issues 

5 class, 17-year-old girl put her hands up to her 

6 ears and said, "I don't want to hear about global 

7 warming, and I don't want to watch An 

8 Inconvenient Truth." And that's when -- she was 

9 almost in a panic attack. And I realized then 

10 the cruelty and the futility of trying to make 

11 education a way to solve a problem.

12 I mean, really? We're going to let the 

13 babies fix this thing? I mean, we cannot leave 

14 it to the future generations.

15 Now, the first class that I had are now 

16 in their 40s. And the first environmental club 

17 that I had is now in their 40s. They've not 

18 fixed the problem. But it's not because they 

19 don't care anymore. But it's because they don't 

20 have the resources or the time or the power. 

21 But you all do. You are the United 

22 States Environmental Protection Agency. And the 

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1 kids who wore these T-shirts in 2000 are waiting 

2 for the United States Environmental Protection 

3 Agency to do something. And the kids who wore 

4 these T-shirts in 1990 are waiting for the United 

5 States Environmental Protection Agency to do 

6 something.

7 And the whole world is waiting for the 

8 United States Environmental Protection Agency to 

9 do something.

10 In 1961, John F. Kennedy put a challenge 

11 to the scientists of the United States. He 

12 wanted a man on the moon. Now, watching that for 

13 the eight years that it took them to get that man 

14 on the moon -- eight years -- watching that, the 

15 most exciting thing to me was watching the people 

16 buying the computers, the scientists and the 

17 technicians and the team. And they were so 

18 excited when something was happening. And they 

19 were so nervous when something was happening.

20 And you know, we all remember, "Houston, 

21 we have a problem." That was that we know that 

22 Houston is what got them there. And I'm here to 

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1 tell you, I just think about what it would have 

2 been like if you looked in at those people who 

3 were working there, and some of them were like, 

4 "Eh, they'll never get that thing off the 

5 ground," or "Eh, we all know it's made of 

6 cheese."

7 [Laughter.]

8 MS. McCOY: And, but I'm here to tell 

9 you, Washington, you have a problem. The problem 

10 lies with your boots-on-the-ground people. You 

11 have 17,000 employees. I've dealt with some of 

12 those people. And they don't know me. And some 

13 of them, they don't know you. And some of them 

14 don't know science.

15 So where the education needs to be done, 

16 you need to pull in every one of those people, 

17 and you need to train them on what is climate 

18 change, what's the science behind it. And just 

19 make sure that every one of your employees knows 

20 the science and is fearless in presenting that 

21 science to the community, not only to the CEO's 

22 and local corporate officials, but also to the 

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1 children who have been in my classroom for the 

2 last 30 years.

3 Remember, the whole world is waiting.

4 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

5 Ms. Seidell.

6 MS. SEIDELL: Yes. I'm Laura Seidell. 

7 And I thank the EPA for inviting me here to give 

8 my support for the Clean Power Plan.

9 I am a cofounder of Mothers and Others 

10 for Clean Air, with Stephanie Blank. In 2004, we 

11 came together not only because I'm a mother of 

12 three, but I was really concerned about the 

13 health effects of air pollution on our children.

14 Mothers and Others is a program now of 

15 the American Lung Association of the Southeast 

16 and is a unique partnership of leading public 

17 health and child advocacy organizations. We work 

18 with an impressive array of partners and 

19 supporters from the PTA to pediatricians to 

20 scientists, many of whom have been here and given 

21 their testimonials today and will be here 

22 tomorrow.

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1 EPA's Clean Power Plan will protect our 

2 public health immediately and in the future. Of 

3 course, the proposed carbon pollution limits for 

4 existing power plants are overdue. There are 

5 standards for toxics, acid, gases, heavy metals, 

6 smog-forming and soot-forming emissions from 

7 power plants, and there should be standards for 

8 CO2 as well.

9 EPA must protect our children and our 

10 communities from carbon pollution. Scientists 

11 warn that the buildup of carbon pollution will 

12 create warmer temperatures, which increase the 

13 risk of unhealthy ozone levels.

14 Currently, millions of children around 

15 the country have asthma attacks every year, and 

16 ozone pollution is a well-known trigger. Any 

17 increases in ozone will mean more childhood 

18 asthma attacks and complications for those with 

19 lung disease. Additionally, children are more 

20 susceptible to the health effects of air 

21 pollution because their lungs are developing and 

22 they breathe more air in per pound than adults, 

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1 and they spend a lot more time, hopefully, 

2 playing outside.

3 The health benefits of the Clean Power 

4 Plan are significant. By 2030, as you've heard 

5 over and over again -- and this is about saving 

6 lives. I think it's up to 6,600 lives will be 

7 saved, and 150,000 asthma attacks per year will 

8 be avoided by cleaning up the carbon pollution.

9 But also, the good news is the new 

10 regulations will also prevent other contaminants 

11 and air pollutants, such as mercury and 

12 particulates and -- I have to look, I have to 

13 look -- nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide, which 

14 not only are triggers for asthma, but can be the 

15 root cause of lung cancer, heart disease, 

16 developmental disabilities in children, and other 

17 diseases as well, including premature death, 

18 which is the ultimate.

19 The recent National Climate Assessment 

20 highlights other critical health impacts from 

21 carbon pollution and climate change that are 

22 already being felt today across the nation and 

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1 are likely to pose even greater threats in the 

2 future, including heat waves, wildfires, extreme 

3 changes in weather, such as drought and excessive 

4 precipitation, flooding, dust storms, and the 

5 spread of infectious diseases.

6 All of these events have very serious 

7 public health consequences for thousands of 

8 Americans, including people with lung disease 

9 such as asthma, chronic bronchitis, and 

10 emphysema; children whose airways are still 

11 developing; people who work or exercise outdoors; 

12 seniors; low-income communities; and many more.

13 As a parent and a lifelong advocate for 

14 children's health, I know that setting strong 

15 carbon limits is not just for the sake of future 

16 generations, but will improve the health of our 

17 children and the health of our communities now 

18 and today.

19 And the good news is another organization 

20 that I'm involved with, the League of 

21 Conservation Voters, did the following poll: 

22 After the Clean Power Plan was announced, the 

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1 polls shows public support of the plan by a 

2 margin of 65 to 28 percent. In fact, support 

3 exceeded 60 percent in every region of the 

4 country and by voters in all age and income 

5 brackets, with younger voters and those in 

6 middle- and lower-income households especially 

7 supportive.

8 I don't know if you've had a chance to go 

9 online, but look how partisan this issue is in 

10 our country, sadly. Clean air should not be a 

11 partisan issue. The health of our children 

12 should not be a partisan issue.

13 I thank you very much for inviting me 

14 here today and letting me give my testimony.

15 MS. KEMKER: Okay. 

16 MS. SEIDELL: And good luck.

17 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

18 Could you make sure that we get a site 

19 for the poll and the statistics that you quoted?

20 MS. SEIDELL: Definitely.

21 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

22 MS. SEIDELL: Certainly.

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1 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

2 Our next speakers are Edward Wolf and 

3 David Root.

4 [Pause.]

5 MS. KEMKER: We'll begin with Mr. Wolf.

6 MR. WOLF: Thank you. Good afternoon. 

7 My name is Edward Wolf. I'm a retired pastor of 

8 the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 

9 representing the Southeastern Synod, which covers 

10 four states -- Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and 

11 Tennessee. I live in Jonesboro, Tennessee, the 

12 storytelling capital of the world.

13 As Lutherans, we deeply believe that this 

14 earth has been provided to us through God's 

15 grace. As reported in the first chapter of 

16 Genesis, we are to be stewards of God's creation, 

17 to care for it and to provide for all humanity 

18 through life that is generated by creation.

19 Something is happening that is scary, 

20 threatening, and what we believe to be against 

21 God's will and purpose. Humanity is destroying 

22 the gift of God. While all of humanity is 

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1 identified by its culture, it nation, its 

2 heritage, and location, the dynamics of change 

3 have created a global village where all humanity 

4 is now connected.

5 In this global community, we are not 

6 separated from the earth to do what we wish; we 

7 are interconnected with the earth. Accordingly, 

8 what happens to the air, the seas, under the 

9 seas, and all that is impacted by land affects 

10 both our earth and us.

11 What is happening to the earth and 

12 therefore to us cannot be explained in a brief 

13 period of time. Suffice it to say briefly, last 

14 April the average CO2 concentrations in the 

15 earth's atmosphere exceeded 400 parts per million 

16 on a sustained basis for the first time in 

17 800,000 years.

18 Thirteen of the fourteen hottest years 

19 ever measured with instruments have occurred in 

20 this century. This past May was the hottest year 

21 [sic] ever in the history of the earth. The 

22 collapse of a portion of the West Antarctic ice 

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1 sheet is not only underway; it is irreversible, 

2 causing a continued rise in the earth's water.

3 The northeast part of Greenland has been 

4 losing more than 10 billion tons of ice per year 

5 for the last decade. The April rain in 

6 Pensacola, Florida, brought two feet of water in 

7 24 hours. One hundred percent of California is 

8 in severe, extreme, or exceptional drought. The 

9 fire season is two-and-one-half months longer 

10 than 30 years ago.

11 A trigger of the civil war in Syria has 

12 been identified as the drought from 2006 to 2010, 

13 where 60 percent of the farms and 80 percent of 

14 the livestock were destroyed. A Pentagon 

15 advisory committee has described the climate 

16 crisis as a catalyst for conflict that may cause 

17 governmental and societal collapse.

18 Many of the above facts do not affect our 

19 nation directly. Yet whatever happens on this 

20 earth affects all of us as a global community. 

21 The United States, as the self-proclaimed world 

22 leader, has the responsibility to be a model for 

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1 responding favorably and decisively to what is 

2 happening to Mother Earth.

3 Honestly and personally, I'm scared. The 

4 fear is not about me. I will not be here to see 

5 the results of a scarred earth if we continue 

6 down the same path. I'm 77. I am concerned for 

7 my grandchildren, all seven, and the great8 grandchildren that will come after.

9 I am also concerned for this great 

10 nation. Catastrophic events caused by climate 

11 change can weaken and-or destroy any democracy, 

12 for all democracies are fragile, at best.

13 The ELCA and I are totally in favor of 

14 the executive order that was given that requires 

15 a reduction of 30 percent in carbon emissions 

16 over the next 30 years. Our presiding bishop and 

17 the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in 

18 America have issued a joint statement to that 

19 effect.

20 Carbon emissions and their effect on the 

21 atmosphere are one of the major drivers of 

22 climate change that is warming this planet. When 

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1 we look at the universe, this small orb called 

2 earth is an incredible creation of God, however 

3 we understand God. We are the stewards of this 

4 creation. We are responsible for its nurturing, 

5 growth, and productivity, not just now, but for 

6 all the generations after us. There is no Plan 

7 B.

8 Thank you.

9 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

10 Mr. Root.

11 MR. ROOT: Thank you. And it's Root, R12 o-o-t.

13 My name is David Root. I speak today in 

14 favor of the proposed Clean Power Plan. I speak 

15 as a citizen increasingly concerned about the 

16 quality of life in my home state and in our 

17 planet. I am a lawyer by profession, an elder in 

18 Presbyterian church, a husband, father, and 

19 relatively new grandfather. I do not speak for 

20 nor am I sponsored by any vested or special 

21 interest.

22 I was surprised to learn several years 

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1 ago that our nation's power plants cause nearly 

2 40 percent of carbon pollution in the United 

3 States. Georgia is a big contributor to this 

4 carbon problem because we use coal to produce 

5 electricity. Several years ago, I had a legal 

6 matter down at Plant Scherer, near Macon, 

7 Georgia, and I got to take a look at that 

8 facility. I was amazed to see train car after 

9 train car of coal rolling into the plant, coal 

10 that had been extracted from beautiful mountain 

11 ranges in Wyoming, coal that was then burned 

12 around the clock to provide Georgians with 

13 electricity.

14 It is appropriate that these hearings are 

15 here in Atlanta, as the problem with carbon 

16 pollution is particularly evident here. I 

17 witness it every day, firsthand, from the 36th 

18 floor of my office building a few blocks from 

19 here, where, when I look out over a smog-covered 

20 city.

21 In Georgia, we hear more and more about 

22 the negative health effects from Atlanta's poor 

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1 air quality. Our local weather reports contain 

2 smog alerts that warn the young and elderly to 

3 stay inside. When I was a kid, I never heard a 

4 weather report telling me that I risked my health 

5 by going outdoors to play on a sunny summer day. 

6 I'd like to go back to a world where my new 

7 grandchildren won't grow up worrying about such 

8 things.

9 We've all listened to news accounts that 

10 debate the impact of carbon pollution on the 

11 world. I've listened to these reports, but I've 

12 also talked to friends I trust here in Atlanta, 

13 who teach at Emory or Georgia Tech, or who work 

14 for the CDC or in our remarkable medical 

15 community here.

16 My scientist and doctor friends all 

17 believe that carbon pollution in Georgia and 

18 across the U.S. fuels climate change, triggers 

19 asthma attacks and respiratory disease, worsens 

20 our air quality, and contributes to more 

21 frequent, more destructive, more costly, and more 

22 deadly extreme weather events.

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1 We regulate arsenic, soot, and other 

2 dangerous pollutants, but our power plants have 

3 been able to inject unlimited amounts of carbon 

4 pollution into the air. The Clean Power Plan 

5 will hopefully change that.

6 The principal argument against efforts 

7 like the Clean Power Plan is its supposed job8 killing impact. Having seen the terrible results 

9 of our recent recession, I worry about jobs, too. 

10 But I believe we need to take a hard look at the 

11 true economic impact of doing nothing about 

12 carbon.

13 As a result of our reliance on coal, we 

14 pay increased health costs. We pay millions to 

15 clean up coal slurry when it escapes its holding 

16 pens and floods a river. And most concerning of 

17 all, our businesses and insurers are already 

18 calculating the devastating economic impact of 

19 climate change, which has the potential to be 

20 staggering.

21 As opposed to being an economic 

22 detriment, I'm hopeful the Clean Power Plan will 

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1 spur the development of renewable energy 

2 technologies, leading to job creation and 

3 economic growth. I have read that the plan will 

4 provide public health and climate benefits at $55 

5 billion to $95 billion per year by 2030, benefits 

6 that far outweigh the costs.

7 In conclusion, I strongly support the 

8 Clean Power Plan. As a lawyer, I am grateful to 

9 live in a country where, under the rule of law, 

10 we as citizens can encourage our government to 

11 take practical, deliberate, and organized steps 

12 to improve our quality of life. As a person of 

13 faith, I believe we are stewards of our planet 

14 and are morally obligated to preserve creation.

15 And finally, I am hopeful that my new 

16 grandchildren, who will live into the twenty17 second century, will enjoy a world that my 

18 grandparents, born in the nineteenth century, 

19 would recognize.

20 Thank you.

21 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

22 Our next speakers are Michael Whatley and 

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1 Brian Rinehart. 

2 Thank you both.

3 MS. KEMKER: Do we have either Michael 

4 Whatley or Brian Rinehart?

5 [Inaudible interjection.]

6 MS. KEMKER: Could be.

7 [Pause.] 

8 MS. KEMKER: R-i-n-a-n-t?

9 Are you signed up for this time slot?

10 [No audible response.] 

11 MS. KEMKER: We're going to take a five12 minute recess, and we will be right back. 

13 Thanks.

14 [Recess taken from 3:50 to 4:00 p.m.]

15 MS. KEMKER: And, Mr. Whatley, when 

16 you're ready.

17 MR. WHATLEY: Okay. Thank you.

18 My name is Michael Whatley, and I'm the 

19 Executive Vice President for Consumer Energy 

20 Alliance.

21 MS. KEMKER: And I'm going to -- sorry 

22 for the interruption. I'm going to remind 

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1 everyone to spell your name for the court 

2 reporter.

3 MR. WHATLEY: Certainly. Yes. Michael 

4 Whatley, W-h-a-t-l-e-y.

5 And I'm the Executive Vice President for 

6 Consumer Energy Alliance. CEA is a national, 

7 nonprofit, nonpartisan trade association made up 

8 of both energy consumers and energy producers 

9 working to advance an all-of-the-above energy 

10 strategy that will lower costs for every American 

11 energy consumer.

12 Our membership is wide. It is diverse. 

13 It is made up of every economic sector, including 

14 electricity users such as manufacturers, iron and 

15 steel producers, chemical producers, 

16 pharmaceutical producers, and agribusiness, as 

17 well as 400,000 individuals nationwide. And we 

18 also have energy producers on a wide range, 

19 including coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, wind, 

20 solar, and other renewables.

21 Access to affordable, reliable energy is 

22 of utmost importance to our members because every 

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1 dollar spent on energy is a dollar that cannot be 

2 spent on capital investment, payroll savings, 

3 groceries, or next year's family vacation. In 

4 order to create economic growth, it is important 

5 for the government to implement policies that 

6 will ensure affordable, reliable energy supplies 

7 for America's families, farms, factories, and 

8 small businesses.

9 If finalized as proposed, these 

10 regulations on existing electric generation units 

11 will undoubtedly cause reliability and 

12 affordability concerns for many states, 

13 particularly those that utilize coal for a large 

14 portion of their electricity generation. This is 

15 particularly acute problem for many states in the 

16 Midwest and Southeast regions, where a majority 

17 of the states rely on coal-powered generation for 

18 more than one-third of their electricity needs.

19 As proposed, these regulations would 

20 force states to enact policies which would 

21 require utilities and electric cooperatives to 

22 prematurely shut down coal-fired power plants, 

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1 either through the implementation of fuel2 switching requirements or renewable fuel 

3 mandates.

4 Given the nature of our electric grid, 

5 abrupt changes in our energy mix, particularly 

6 ones that have not been contemplated throughout 

7 the development of the grid, will reduce dispatch 

8 options, disrupt fuel diversification that has 

9 been critical to low electricity costs.

10 Additionally, plant closures will 

11 continue to have a real and negative impact on 

12 state and local economies. For the most 

13 vulnerable among us, including low-income 

14 families and seniors living on fixed budgets, 

15 higher electricity costs cannot be easily 

16 absorbed. In essence, they are a regressive tax.

17 While natural gas, nuclear, alternative, 

18 and renewable electricity generation have become 

19 a much more important part of the fuel mix over 

20 the past several decades and are certainly 

21 capable of increasing their contributions to the 

22 grid, developing additional capacity from these 

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1 sources and the necessary infrastructure to 

2 realize these expansions will take time and 

3 likely come with significant costs to consumers.

4 We would also like to point out that 

5 EPA's aggressive timeline allows states only one 

6 year to develop a very complex plan that will 

7 need to address a series of adjustments to their 

8 electricity generation, consumption, and energy 

9 infrastructure that will come from forcing a 

10 change in the energy mix.

11 States have historically been given 

12 several years to develop and implement 

13 regulations for criteria pollutants that are a 

14 fraction of the size and scope of these proposed 

15 regulations that we are discussing today.

16 Forcing through regulations of this 

17 magnitude in such a short time frame will limit 

18 the ability of states and stakeholders to 

19 thoughtfully prepare for the drastic changes that 

20 this rule would cause.

21 If this administration is comfortable 

22 spending more than five years evaluating the 

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1 Keystone XL Pipeline, it should feel comfortable 

2 taking the time to craft a thoughtful rule that 

3 fully evaluates the consequences of the proposed 

4 actions here. 

5 At a time when electricity consumption is 

6 projected to grow, it is important that 

7 government regulations and policies avoid 

8 electricity supply disruptions or unnecessary 

9 price increases. As EPA considers how to move 

10 forward, we urge the agency to keep electricity 

11 consumers in mind and not to promulgate and 

12 finalize rules that will adversely affect 

13 business and family budgets.

14 Thank you.

15 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

16 Any questions?

17 [No audible response.] 

18 MS. KEMKER: All right. Mr. Rinehart.

19 MR. RINEHART: Brian Rinehart, B-r-i-a-n 

20 R-i-n-e-h-a-r-t.

21 I'm Brian Rinehart, from Louisville, 

22 Kentucky. I'm an environmental studies major at 

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1 the University of Rochester, where I also work as 

2 a sustainability coordinator.

3 I am in support of this plan. However, 

4 the greenhouse effect itself was first recognized 

5 in the early 1800s. By the late 1930s, it was 

6 already suggested that CO2 emissions from human 

7 fossil fuel consumption was contributing to 

8 climate change.

9 The science here is not new, but it is 

10 getting better. And papers are constantly being 

11 published that confirm what has been suspected 

12 about the economic, climatic, and health impacts 

13 of the burning of fossil fuels.

14 With all of this and all of the time 

15 we've had with these facts, it seems evident that 

16 the proposed 30 percent cuts in emissions by 2030 

17 is merely a lean in the right direction, rather 

18 than the necessary step. 2030 is far too late 

19 for enforcement of cuts that should have already 

20 been met.

21 So many of the people who have been doing 

22 this for decades have said that they were working 

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1 so that their children didn't have to inherit 

2 their burdens. It's too late for that. The 

3 problems of past generations have now become ours 

4 because the people in charge have refused to act, 

5 because the people in power said to let us deal 

6 with it so that they could continue to profit.

7 But we're here now. We're here, and yet 

8 they carry on. Instead of letting us deal with 

9 it, they silence us. They call my generation 

10 lazy, uninspired, unengaged, unwilling to speak 

11 out. They try to take away our voice and to 

12 attack our credibility.

13 But we do speak. And we will not be 

14 ignored. We have taken it upon ourselves to try 

15 to convince leaders to heed our warnings and fix 

16 what they have put off for so long. 

17 Now that we have this long-overdue plan 

18 before us, perhaps it is time to finally listen 

19 when we say that it is not enough. The U.S. is 

20 falling behind in global efforts to curb 

21 emissions. Just at face value, the Clean Power 

22 Plan fails to act quickly enough or decisively 

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1 enough.

2 By giving energy companies so much time 

3 to come into compliance and presenting a number 

4 of ways that they can safeguard old, inefficient 

5 modes of energy production, the plan serves 

6 primarily to kick the problem further down the 

7 road.

8 The more we put off taking care of these 

9 issues now, the harder it will become for my 

10 generation and those that follow to deal with 

11 them effectively when we begin to make policy.

12 Polls have shown that most Americans are 

13 in favor of carbon caps, and many believe that 

14 they already exist. It is clear that the current 

15 policies of the energy corporations are not in 

16 line with what people think we have or what they 

17 want.

18 People know what is good for them and 

19 have had so much faith in this system that they 

20 actually believe that they were being taken care 

21 of. We should not let them down by passing 

22 legislation that fails to truly protect them.

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1 Ultimately, the all-of-the-above approach 

2 to cleaner energy is incompatible with the stated 

3 goals. If the idea is to curb climate change, 

4 then this plan in its current state will not 

5 work.

6 It diverts funds that could be invested 

7 in truly sustainable technologies by continuing 

8 subsidies for coal and nuclear, and expanding 

9 natural gas production via fracking, which itself 

10 uses massive quantities of energy, generates 

11 significant methane emissions, which are more 

12 potent than CO2 emissions, and destroys water 

13 quality and availability.

14 The companies continue to deny 

15 responsibility for this, but common sense, even 

16 without seeing the studies coming out, leads one 

17 to other conclusions.

18 There are too many ways that this plan 

19 allows loopholes for current modes of production 

20 and does not properly encourage a real transition 

21 to efficient and sustainable energies. But, by 

22 all means, pass this plan. Any action is better 

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1 than inaction. But for this to truly be 

2 effective, the timeline must be moved up, the 

3 protection of antiquated forms of energy 

4 production must be weakened, and by the time 

5 companies come into compliance, a new stronger 

6 plan must already be in place as the next step.

7 It is in the words of Wendell Berry, 

8 Kentuckian poet, "The name of our present 

9 society's connection to the earth is 'bad work,' 

10 work that is only generally and crudely defined, 

11 that enacts a dependence that is ill-understood, 

12 that enacts no affection and gives no honor."

13 Every one of us is to some extent guilty 

14 of this bad work. This guilt does not mean that 

15 we must indulge in a lot of breast-beating and 

16 confession. It means only that there is much 

17 good work to be done by every one of us and that 

18 we must begin to do it.

19 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

20 Thank you both.

21 Our next speakers are Joan Lindop and 

22 Elizabeth Poythress. And if I said your names 

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1 incorrectly, I apologize.

2 [Inaudible interjections.]

3 [Pause.] 

4 MS. KEMKER: And we'll begin when you're 

5 ready, Ms. Lindop.

6 MS. LINDOP: Joan Lindop, J-o-a-n L-i-n7 d-o-p. I'm a Sierra Club volunteer from 

8 Kentucky.

9 I live in Kentucky, where we have low 

10 utility rates, but high energy bills, because we 

11 are incredibly inefficient. We are inefficient 

12 partly because our legislature is still living in 

13 the Coal Age. Even though only 2 percent of 

14 Kentuckians are employed in the coal industry, a 

15 renewable portfolio standard or a meaningful net 

16 metering bill are not likely unless the Federal 

17 Government provides rules and incentives.

18 Efficiency can create many great jobs, 

19 and they can't be sent to China. Efficiency 

20 holds a great potential for Kentucky, and we are 

21 seeing lead buildings appear around Kentucky. 

22 However, Kentucky is still dotted with coal-fired 

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1 power plants. We get 90 percent of our power --

2 I think it's more than 90 percent -- from coal3 fired power plants.

4 The City of Louisville has Mill Creek 

5 Power Plant on the south and Trimble Plants on 

6 the north, both on the Ohio River, both leaking 

7 into the river, and both polluting our air.

8 We have high asthma rates, increasing

9 school absences and increasing the incidence of 

10 heart disease in Kentucky. Please encourage our 

11 utilities to burn less coal, since particulates 

12 and coal ash are becoming -- causing bigger 

13 health burdens. We need your help. We should 

14 not be subsidizing coal.

15 Thank you.

16 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

17 Ms. Poythress, is that --

18 MS. POYTHRESS: Very good. You said it 

19 exactly right.

20 My name is Elizabeth Poythress. And you 

21 spell that P-o-y-t-h-r-e-s-s. And I'm the 

22 President of the League of Women Voters of 

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1 Georgia. And I'm very glad to be here again. I 

2 spoke at your October hearing. And I really want 

3 to thank you for the opportunity to speak on this 

4 particular Clean Power Plan.

5 And again, I also thank you for doing it 

6 regionally and spreading out to a broad, broad 

7 array of people and extending it for an extra day 

8 just because the public said, "We want to speak." 

9 Thank you very much.

10 The air we breathe is critical to the 

11 health of all Americans, and particularly 

12 critical for the young, old, and impaired. We as 

13 Americans are obligated to preserve our natural 

14 resources, including clean, breathable air.

15 In the position of -- it is the position 

16 of the League of Women Voters of Georgia and 

17 other 49 leagues in 50 states that we as 

18 responsible Americans owe a profound moral 

19 obligation to our children and to future 

20 generations to act now to protect them from the 

21 effects of climate change, which we know is 

22 caused in part by carbon pollution from power 

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1 plants.

2 We are morally obligated to protect our 

3 children and our future generations.

4 You have heard from many in these 

5 hearings, and in the ones in October, about the 

6 cost and economic impact on businesses and 

7 individuals. I would just ask: Is there a cost 

8 that we should equate to eliminating our moral 

9 obligation to help? I think not.

10 I am here today to thank the EPA for 

11 providing our population with protection thus far 

12 by adopting standards for the 40 percent of 

13 carbon pollution from existing power plants in 

14 the United States. These emissions can cause 

15 climate change and thousands of deaths every 

16 year.

17 In Georgia, we have been taking the 

18 necessary steps, some of the necessary steps, to 

19 cut carbon pollution. Between 2008 and 2011, 

20 carbon emissions in Georgia dropped 20 percent. 

21 And through the EPA's Clean Power Plan, Georgia 

22 will have the flexibility to continue this 

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1 positive momentum.

2 The standards proposed by the EPA are 

3 aggressive and ambitious. We urge the EPA to do 

4 even more to strengthen the proposal to recognize 

5 the tremendous potential for renewable energy and 

6 energy conservation.

7 Cutting carbon emissions will protect 

8 public health by extending limits like the ones 

9 placed on arsenic, lead, mercury, and soot. All 

10 of those need to be regulated, and they are. So 

11 does what we're doing now with carbon emissions.

12 Reducing emissions from existing power 

13 plants is critical to addressing the growing 

14 danger that climate change poses to the health 

15 and welfare of U.S. citizens and people around 

16 the world, as acknowledged by those leading 

17 climate scientists and the EPA itself.

18 The American Lung Association, in its 

19 state-of-the-art [sic] report, states that 

20 million of Americans across the country, 

21 including children and the elderly, live in areas 

22 that received an F rating for at least one of the 

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1 air quality measurements. In Georgia, the four 

2 major metropolitan counties -- Fulton County, 

3 DeKalb, and Gwinnett -- have over 8,000 children 

4 that are in the F-rated areas. This is 

5 unacceptable, and it must be changed.

6 Leading public health organizations, 

7 including the American Medical Association, the 

8 American Lung Association, the American Nurses 

9 Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, 

10 and the American Public Health Association, have 

11 gone on record calling climate change a serious 

12 public health issue.

13 In Georgia alone, 8.2 percent of adults 

14 suffer from asthma, and across the country asthma 

15 rates have doubled. Until the U.S. can get a 

16 handle on the dirty air, exacerbated by the 

17 climate change caused by carbon pollution, we 

18 will continue to see thousands of premature 

19 deaths, respiratory disease, and a higher risk of 

20 asthma attacks.

21 On behalf of the children and the unborn 

22 generations of Georgia and the nation, the League 

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1 of Women Voters of Georgia urges the EPA to adopt 

2 strong carbon pollution standards for existing 

3 and new power plants and to address one of the 

4 main causes of climate change. The 

5 implementation of strong carbon pollution 

6 standards will protect the health of all 

7 Americans from its devastating impacts.

8 I want to thank you again for providing 

9 the opportunity for this public hearing and for 

10 allowing the public to express their comments on 

11 this vital public health issue that will impact 

12 the citizens of Georgia and the United States. 

13 Thank you.

14 [Applause.]

15 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

16 If you will, we'll have -- thank you very 

17 much to both speakers.

18 Our next speakers are Samantha Siegel and 

19 Matt Campbell.

20 [Pause.] 

21 MS. KEMKER: Ms. Siegel, when you're 

22 ready.

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1 MS. SIEGEL: Okay. My name is Samantha 

2 Siegel, S-i-e-g-e-l. I am a resident of South 

3 Carolina and a Clean Energy Organizer for the 

4 South Carolina Sierra Club.

5 I would like to thank the EPA for holding 

6 this public hearing and giving us the opportunity 

7 to comment on the proposed Clean Power Plan.

8 I support the Clean Power Plan for 

9 obvious reasons, because carbon pollution 

10 exacerbates climate disruption; contributes to 

11 more frequent and more violent extreme weather 

12 that cost communities, the Federal Government, 

13 and our economy billions of dollars each year; 

14 but most importantly because carbon pollution 

15 threatens every single human being's health.

16 I commend the EPA for coming up with a 

17 plan that will limit carbon pollution for the 

18 first time in our country. According to the 

19 American Lung Association, nearly half of all 

20 Americans live in areas where the air is unsafe 

21 to breathe. And obviously, carbon emissions play 

22 a huge part in that.

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1 In my role as an organizer for the Sierra 

2 Club, I have had the opportunity to meet with 

3 people who are directly impacted by some kind of 

4 pollution and reach out to us as the Sierra Club 

5 for help.

6 Most recently, I had the pleasure of 

7 getting to know a man named Dan Powell. He grew 

8 up in Western North Carolina right by a coal9 fired power plant. He moved to Greenville, South 

10 Carolina, for work, and at 35, married the girl 

11 of his dreams and became a father.

12 He loved his job as Greenville County Air 

13 Quality Director and City Planner for Fountain 

14 Inn, South Carolina. He wrote grants that 

15 brought in millions of dollars to revitalize 

16 Fountain Inn, build safe trails, and follow 

17 through with his lifelong passion of starting a 

18 clean air program. He had horrible asthma as a 

19 child due to the poor air quality near the plant.

20 Dan has always been a health-conscious 

21 nonsmoker. But at 36 years old, he felt short of 

22 breath one day and went to the doctor. That same 

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1 day, January 23rd of this year, Dan was diagnosed 

2 with stage-four lung cancer and was told he had 

3 nine to twelve months to live.

4 [Pause.] 

5 MS. SIEGEL: Sorry.

6 He also recently found out from a 

7 neighbor from the community that he grew up in, 

8 near the coal plant, and was also recently 

9 diagnosed with the same deadly disease, lung 

10 cancer. The Clean Power Plan, obviously, will 

11 help human health by -- we've heard the statistic 

12 a couple of times -- preventing up to 150,000 

13 asthma attacks and 6,600 premature deaths 

14 annually by the year 2030.

15 I spoke with Dan at length last night. 

16 And he wanted to be here, but couldn't make the 

17 trip, for obvious health reasons. He wanted me 

18 to share his story. And he believes that God 

19 chose him for this so he could continue to make 

20 an impact on the world by working for cleaner 

21 air.

22 Don't you see, it doesn't matter how many 

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1 jobs are lost in coal mines or coal plants as a 

2 result of the proposed Clean Power Plan, even 

3 though new ones will be created by the new 

4 renewable energy companies. It doesn't matter if 

5 our electricity bills go up a little bit. We're 

6 talking about human life.

7 Dan Powell is a human being. And he 

8 deserved clean air to breathe as a child. Dan 

9 Powell is a young father, a husband, a son, even 

10 a grandson. He shouldn't have to suffer. No one 

11 should have to suffer because big corporations 

12 don't want to follow the rules.

13 I am fortunate enough to not have been 

14 around in the early '60s at a time when I am sure 

15 many of the people in this room can remember what 

16 real smog was. What my dad describes to me as 

17 "not the sissy smog" that we may come across 

18 today, but honest-to-God hurt-your-eyes choke19 your-lungs filthy, disgusting, putrid air that 

20 was literally not fit to breathe.

21 People got sick. Not "I don't really 

22 feel well" sick -- really sick. We are talking 

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1 really sick. It looked like the beginning of the 

2 end of the world. There are places where smog 

3 blocked out the sun. People describe being able 

4 to taste it.

5 American manufacturers poured toxic waste 

6 directly into our rivers and groundwater --

7 poison, real poison. It was cheaper and more 

8 efficient to dump poison in your own neighbor's 

9 yard and in the town water supply than it was to 

10 clean up your own mess.

11 "It's our country, and so we can trash 

12 it," seemed to be the national state of mind. 

13 Many of our political leaders opposed any kind of 

14 clean air and water standards because cleanliness 

15 was anti-business. Those were usually the same 

16 people who swore cigarettes weren't a health 

17 hazard. "Smoke your lungs out." People who 

18 didn't smoke or complained about it were un19 American alarmists.

20 These are also the same guys who would 

21 have advised you to pay close attention to the 

22 Camel advertisements who said nine out of ten 

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1 doctors agreed that smoking Camels is good for 

2 your health. They really had these 

3 advertisements. I have copies of them. They 

4 really believed that.

5 Higher costs associated with poison 

6 cleanup meant fewer profits, and fewer profits 

7 meant fewer jobs, and if you were against jobs 

8 and against profiting from lung diseases, that 

9 meant you were un-American.

10 But when people started choking and dying 

11 and we were forced to watch it on the evening 

12 news, we did something. We took steps to clean 

13 up cars and passed the Clean Air and Water Acts. 

14 Sanity prevailed over shortsighted profiteering. 

15 There were tough choices that had to be made, and 

16 we made them.

17 [Inaudible interjection.]

18 MS. KEMKER: Your time -- just wrap it 

19 up.

20 MS. SIEGEL: Just one more thing.

21 MS. KEMKER: Okay. 

22 MS. SIEGEL: Today, we are once again

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1 faced with tough environmental choices if we want 

2 to live healthy lives and have a healthy planet 

3 fit for human beings. There are alternatives. 

4 The proposed Clean Power Plan is a good one. We 

5 should find more of them.

6 But the issue that environmentalists and 

7 those who oppose this plan have and believe that 

8 more government regulation will cost American 

9 jobs and are apparently fine with the idea that 

10 the people who live in rural communities that die 

11 from poison -- sorry.

12 That doesn't necessarily give you the 

13 right to -- they want the freedom to choose where 

14 their electricity comes from. But they don't 

15 necessarily get the right to choose for innocent 

16 Americans like my friend Dan Powell.

17 Thanks.

18 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

19 MR. CAMPBELL: Hello. I'm Matt Campbell. 

20 Thank you for the opportunity. I'm speaking on 

21 behalf of the Smart Transportation Division. We 

22 are an association, a labor union that represents 

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1 several hundred thousand railroad employees 

2 across the continent. I'm here today on behalf 

3 of them to convey our concerns with the EPA's 

4 proposed Clean Power Plan.

5 We as railroad workers are concerned and 

6 we care because of the impact it's going to have 

7 on our jobs, on our futures. The members of our 

8 organization, my coworkers, your neighbors, 

9 precious careers are in jeopardy if some 

10 recommendations that have put forth are not heard 

11 and listened to.

12 Here's some railroad facts and figures 

13 for you. First, there's nearly 40 percent of all 

14 freight railroad cars in America are coal cars --

15 40 percent. Coal has provided the revenues 

16 needed to build and rebuild America's railroads. 

17 Coal continues to provide the money necessary to 

18 expand and maintain our rail infrastructure.

19 America's railroads will spend 

20 approximately $25 billion -- "billion" with a B 

21 -- in 2014 alone to maintain and expand 

22 infrastructure -- that means jobs; that means 

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1 opportunity -- as well as hire 14,000 employees 

2 on the railroad alone. I'm not talking about 

3 mining, utility employees. I'm talking about 

4 railroad workers, 14,000 this year.

5 Second fact, 25 percent of freight rail 

6 industry's revenue come from the shipping of 

7 coal. The miners mine it, the loaders load it, 

8 and the railroaders haul it to where it goes. 

9 When you take out -- when you take coal away, 

10 you're affecting a lot of people.

11 The third fact is 20 percent of all 

12 freight rail jobs involve hauling coal. These 

13 are huge numbers. They're going to have huge 

14 impact on people's lives and the American 

15 economy.

16 Preliminary estimates of the impact on 

17 jobs brought about with the EPA's proposed Clean 

18 Power rule indicate the potential loss of 52,000 

19 permanent, direct jobs by the year 2020 -- 52,000 

20 in the utility, rail, and coal sectors. This is 

21 due to the closure of coal-fired power plants 

22 retirements.

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1 When you include the indirect job losses, 

2 jobs that go along with, but indirectly, the 

3 total increases to over 167,000 lost jobs. 

4 That's nearly 200,000 lost jobs by 2020.

5 Like I said it previously, these railroad 

6 jobs are good jobs. That's not a temporary job, 

7 it's not seasonal employment; it's a career. 

8 Many of these jobs are in rural areas where 

9 there's not any comparable employment to obtain.

10 That being said, I'll bring us to some 

11 suggestions that those affected, the different 

12 organizations, the railroad workers, the miners, 

13 the IBEW, who represents electrical workers --

14 we've come up with some suggestions along with 

15 some other people who have the same interests as 

16 we do. And here are some recommendations for the 

17 EPA to consider.

18 Number one, we believe the plan should 

19 provides states with credit for prior CO2 

20 reductions as an option towards meeting a 

21 reasonable national target for reducing CO2 

22 emissions from the electric power sector.

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1 Number two, the EPA's compliance 

2 timetable is unrealistic. It's unachievable even 

3 with the multiyear compliance averaging toward 

4 the interim final targets. The initial reduction 

5 program should be delayed by several years to 

6 allow states and affected sources adequate time 

7 to prepare and submit state plans and to 

8 structure and implement compliance strategies in 

9 the most flexible least-cost manner.

10 The third, EPA's proposals for major 

11 expansions of state energy efficiency and 

12 renewable energy programs interfere with 

13 traditional state authority in energy planning 

14 and appear to be well beyond the agency's 

15 authority under the Clean Air Act.

16 The Supreme Court's recent decision on 

17 the GHG-permitting rule contains strong 

18 cautionary language that the court would take a 

19 skeptical view of an overly expansive 

20 interpretation of EPA's authority to regulate 

21 greenhouse gases.

22 The fourth -- we believe that the agency 

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1 should reconsider the proposed rule's building2 block approach to set states' CO2 emission 

3 reduction goals based on end-use energy 

4 efficiency, increased use of natural gas and 

5 renewable energy, as well as other beyond-the6 fence emission-reduction strategies.

7 Rather, we propose and we urge the EPA to 

8 focus the rule only on options for reducing 

9 emissions within the plant fence-line. The 

10 proposed 6 percent efficiency improvement for 

11 existing coal units is a step in the right 

12 direction, for we are doubtful that all of these 

13 investments would ever be made, given the rule's 

14 negative impact on coal generation and new-source 

15 review permitting.

16 Fifth and final recommendation, or 

17 talking point, I'd like to bring up is, we 

18 believe that the rule is premature, since we do 

19 not know the extent of what other nations, 

20 particularly large, developing countries, will be 

21 willing to commit to a truly global program for 

22 greenhouse gas reductions.

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1 We cannot go it alone. America cannot go 

2 it alone and expect our actions will have any 

3 meaningful climate impact in a world economy that 

4 is using more coal and other fossil fuels every 

5 day.

6 Developing nations already emit more CO2 

7 than advanced industrial nations. And the 

8 Department of Energy projects that their share of 

9 global emissions will grow steadily and continue 

10 to do so regardless of what the U.S. decides to 

11 do.

12 I'm done in about two seconds.

13 Before I surrender the microphone, I want 

14 to make something clear. I love our environment. 

15 I'm a father of three children. I treasure this 

16 precious earth that we live on. I treasure 

17 Georgia's soil. That being said, I value my job. 

18 If I didn't have my job on the railroad, if my 

19 daddy didn't have his job on the railroad for 50 

20 years, I wouldn't be here today. I would not be 

21 able to provide for my family.

22 There's a lot of work on the line here. 

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1 There's a lot of careers and lives that would be 

2 affected. And I plead with you on behalf of 

3 other middle-class workers, like I am myself, to 

4 listen to these recommendations and find a 

5 commonsense solution. 

6 Thank you.

7 MS. KEMKER: Questions?

8 MR. STENHOUSE: Yes. I have a couple of 

9 questions, actually.

10 Mr. Campbell.

11 MR. CAMPBELL: Certainly.

12 MR. STENHOUSE: You cited effects on 

13 "indirect jobs." Can you characterize those for 

14 us?

15 MR. CAMPBELL: A direct job would be 

16 someone working coal facility, a boilermaker, an 

17 iron worker, keeping the power plant running. 

18 Indirect jobs would be meaning, when coal is 

19 loaded at a plant, put on a train, train takes it 

20 to one destination.

21 The indirect jobs that would line up with 

22 that, indirect jobs being people that sell 

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1 supplies to those industries that burn the coal, 

2 sales jobs. People that provide equipment to 

3 those jobs. People that drive trucks in and out 

4 of there that might not work directly for the 

5 coal-burning power plant. They work for other, 

6 different industries. But they are indirectly 

7 affected.

8 MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thanks.

9 And my other question is, you mentioned 

10 that -- those estimates of potential job losses 

11 attached to facility closures that you might 

12 anticipate by 2020. In that work, have you sort 

13 of differentiated between those that you think 

14 would close because of something like the Clean 

15 Power Plan going into place versus those that may 

16 close due to trends, you know, independent of the 

17 rule? Or is it all potential closures, looking, 

18 forward?

19 MR. CAMPBELL: The numbers I have here 

20 are from potential closures.

21 MR. STENHOUSE: Okay. Thank you.

22 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

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1 MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you.

2 MS. KEMKER: Our next speakers are 

3 Phillip Massengill and Steven Sondheim.

4 [Pause.]

5 MS. KEMKER: And just a reminder to all 

6 to spell your name for our court reporter. 

7 Again, that's Phillip Massengill and Steven 

8 Sondheim.

9 [Pause.]

10 MS. KEMKER: And, Mr. Massengill, when 

11 you are ready.

12 MR. MASSENGILL: All right. All right. 

13 My name is Phillip Massengill. I'm here today on 

14 behalf of the Sierra Club. And I'm here to speak 

15 in support of the proposed climate rule.

16 Now, we've talked a lot today. We've 

17 heard a lot of testimony. We've heard a lot of 

18 people talking about the costs, the economic 

19 costs of implementing the rule, of taking a 

20 serious stance on carbon emissions. But I think 

21 really we have to refocus the narrative and talk 

22 about how we can't afford not to take serious 

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1 action at this point.

2 Now, we talked a lot so far, but the 

3 three specific areas I'd like to focus on first 

4 is I'd like to commend the agency on the proposed 

5 flexibility in the rule. Second, I'd like to 

6 look at the subsidies for non-coal alternatives 

7 and emphasize what I think would be the best way 

8 to spend those subsidies. And lastly, I'd like 

9 to look at the scope of the rule itself.

10 Firstly, looking at the flexibility. I 

11 would like to really strongly commend the EPA in 

12 implementing flexibility throughout the rule in a 

13 number of ways. I like the option between states 

14 or regionals, state implementation plans, a way 

15 to kind of work with the states. A big issue 

16 that we're hearing about politically behind this 

17 new rule is this idea that the Federal Government 

18 is over-reaching, that they're taking over, that 

19 really they're crushing the states.

20 But you guys have done a great job in 

21 this rule in reaching out and making the states a 

22 partner in implementing this new rule and 

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1 allowing the states the freedom, with your 

2 guidance, to implement these rules. So I think 

3 that's outstanding. It speaks to the fundamental 

4 framework of our government and to federalism 

5 itself. So, that's outstanding.

6 Also, though, it does a great job of 

7 allowing the states to use market solutions. 

8 Rather than a simple, central command model where 

9 we lock out, you know, by edict what you can and 

10 cannot emit, it allows the states to use creative 

11 market solutions and to tailor state plans, which 

12 for their specific regional economies.

13 For instance, a big issue that a lot of 

14 people have talked about is the carbon tax and a 

15 way that you can use that more efficiently. 

16 We've heard over and over today about the costs 

17 in health care and the costs to 

18 disproportionately affected communities.

19 A carbon tax is the way to make the use 

20 of these polluting sites that are still going to 

21 be open, as we're becoming more and more 

22 efficient, economically efficient.

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1 You can use revenues from a coal tax to 

2 make these things efficient and use the money for 

3 health care, to reinvest in communities, or even 

4 to use the money to help displaced workers from 

5 affected industries like coal mining, like the 

6 rail industry, things of that nature, to create 

7 programs to help them shift into modern clean 

8 economies.

9 So I've spoken quite a bit about 

10 flexibility, but that is outstanding.

11 Secondly, though, let's talk about some 

12 of the subsidies or some of the different 

13 options. Now, the EPA rule proposes a kind of 

14 all-of-the-above option other than coal. And 

15 while I commend trying to move away from a heavy 

16 reliance centrally on coal and heavy carbon 

17 emission, we have to go all the way and make the 

18 full jump.

19 Because simply a shift towards natural 

20 gas, which is reliant on the technology of 

21 fracking, which we all know has some dubious 

22 environmental effects, or even of nuclear power, 

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1 which has an undercurrent technology, an infinite 

2 shelf life in terms of storing the spent fuel --

3 these are all major issues that we're going to 

4 have to deal with in the future.

5 If we're going to be spending money to 

6 subsidize the development of new energies, of a 

7 new cleaner economy, then let's make the full 

8 transition. Rather than going from a completely 

9 coal-based economy to a fossil-fuel-like economy, 

10 I think it would be outstanding to put these 

11 monies into local developments and new green 

12 energies.

13 Now, that returns to what we were talking 

14 about earlier with the notion of these market 

15 solutions. There are ways that we can 

16 incentivize the development of these new greener 

17 forms of energy. And a great thing that's been 

18 going on state by state has been in the work to 

19 increase the amount of wind and solar energy at 

20 the community level, at the local utility 

21 district level.

22 And I think that there would be an 

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1 important role to be played with the EPA and with 

2 the local state implementation plans in 

3 incentivizing this. And it really will create a 

4 more democratic and egalitarian energy production 

5 system.

6 Lastly -- and I see I've only got a 

7 minute, so I'll be brief -- something I'd like to 

8 speak on is I'm so in favor of what the EPA is 

9 doing with this new plan that my last point will 

10 be on the scope. I like what you're doing. My 

11 only suggestion would be that it be expanded, not 

12 just to coal, but also to the automotive 

13 industry, the massive amount of emissions that we 

14 have, you know, which is a whole new area.

15 This is outstanding, looking at the power 

16 production -- you know, the power production 

17 system. And it makes sense. It's the single 

18 largest source of emissions, so of course, the 

19 policy would need to start there. But it needs 

20 to expand out from there so we can look at other 

21 carbon-intensive industries, so we can start to 

22 take stances and start to develop and be more 

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1 energy efficient.

2 And also, I think, hopefully -- and 

3 quickly, I'll wrap it up; I apologize for running 

4 out of time.

5 I hope that this will be the catalyst so 

6 that we can become the leader in the environment 

7 that the United States is in so many other areas. 

8 And hopefully, developing economies will follow 

9 our lead, and this will spread around the world 

10 for a global clean economy. 

11 Thank you.

12 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

13 Mr. Sondheim?

14 MR. SONDHEIM: Hi. Let's get this right. 

15 Can you hear me? Yeah.

16 I'm Steven Sondheim. It's S-t-e-v-e-n 

17 Sondheim, S-o-n-d-h-e-i-m. I'm from Memphis, 

18 Tennessee. I'm in the Sierra Club. I'm on the 

19 Steering Committee of a Special Committee. It's 

20 a Nuclear-Free Sierra Club Committee.

21 And I have a couple of handouts, which 

22 I'll give you, one of them being "Nuclear Power 

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1 Makes Climate Change Worse," and gives some 

2 reasons; and the other is "Nuclear Power Is Not 

3 Part of the Climate Solution."

4 But before I get into those things, I 

5 want to tell you a little story about regulation. 

6 And I really appreciate so much that the EPA is 

7 finally going to take charge of this. It hasn't 

8 been taken charge of before.

9 And the story is I'm also very involved 

10 in transportation, and I sit on a transportation 

11 advisory committee for my city and state. And at 

12 one point about three or four years ago, I asked 

13 them if they were tracking carbon yet. And the 

14 answer was, "Yes, of course we track carbon."

15 And I said, "I don't think you do."

16 And they said, "Yeah, of course we track 

17 carbon monoxide."

18 And I said, "No, carbon dioxide."

19 And then they spoke up and they said, 

20 well, no, they're not required to yet. And they 

21 aren't going to track it until they're required 

22 to.

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1 I say that to say that agencies who 

2 control our infrastructure aren't going to, just 

3 out of goodwill, track certain things unless 

4 they're required to. And it's so great that you 

5 all now are going to -- you know, it's never --

6 they've never tracked that before.

7 And in consideration of building things 

8 or of road structure or of power plant or power 

9 usage or manufacturing, when people are required 

10 to pay attention to something, they do.

11 And one other quick thing. I heard Lisa 

12 Jackson three or four years ago, the former head 

13 of the EPA, talk about her concept of reasonable 

14 regulation and her concept of regulatory 

15 certainty.

16 And what she told us in the speech was 

17 that businesses that they know what the ground 

18 rules are, and if everybody has to pay attention 

19 to them, and there's no cheating going on, they 

20 comply. And they find ways to deal with it well.

21 So. Okay, now, to the nuclear part, I 

22 actually would like to suggest an analysis that

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1 you all do. And I've thought a lot about this. 

2 I'm not for nuclear for a number of reasons --

3 the radiation, the danger, the safety, the 

4 unreliability. But I think the bottom line is 

5 economics. 

6 I want you all to sort of do a study for 

7 how much carbon reduction or carbon avoidance --

8 I think maybe it's better to say "carbon 

9 avoidance" -- could you get with a big old bag of 

10 money, $10 billion or whatever, if you pour that 

11 money into efficiency, conservation, and 

12 renewable, versus if you poured that money into 

13 nuclear?

14 And I maintain, and in our studies that 

15 we've done, and we're glad to share them with 

16 you, you get four to six to eight to ten times as 

17 much by directly providing power that has no 

18 carbon aspect. Nuclear has a low carbon aspect. 

19 It does have more than none. People have talked 

20 about the complete cycle and the cleanup.

21 But the other point is you could just 

22 purchase so much completely clean energy for the 

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1 money that it takes to do nuclear. And nuclear 

2 is extremely expensive. Other people have talked 

3 about how expensive it is and the cost overruns 

4 and the delays.

5 New nuclear is just outrageous. It 

6 should never be considered anymore. But even 

7 maintaining the old nuclear, they're involved in 

8 relicensing plants that are very old and creaky 

9 and dirty and leaky, you know, for another 20 

10 years. It's going to be lots of cost there.

11 So I would request, and I'll request it 

12 formally, that you all do a study for how you can 

13 get the most bang for the buck, whether it be --

14 well, which ways would it be? And that's where 

15 we should strive. We should strive for an 

16 aggressive -- and I so appreciate it -- carbon 

17 reduction phenomenon. And I think we can do it, 

18 and I think we can do it with new jobs, with a 

19 new economy.

20 But I think we have to do it because 

21 we're all scared to death about, this carbon is 

22 going to just bite us, badly. You know, it could 

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1 be a disaster.

2 A couple of other things that I want to 

3 say about nuclear. And that is, I want to 

4 consider -- I want to mention that I think people 

5 should consider the full cost of nuclear and the 

6 full amount of energy that nuclear takes, 

7 especially in the transportation, the uranium 

8 enrichment.

9 As an example, USEC -- what's that 

10 called? USEC, which is a uranium enrichment 

11 plant was just shut down in Kentucky. And it 

12 required nine of the ten coal-powered units out 

13 of Shawnee just to maintain that plant. And now 

14 that's going to, I think, allow them, well, 

15 depending on how they structure it, to shut 

16 Shawnee down.

17 And there's a lot of energy-intense 

18 things about nuclear, and including the future of 

19 nuclear, the decommissioning and so forth. So I 

20 just really highly recommend we are very careful 

21 on nuclear and that we don't do that and that we 

22 look for the best bang for the buck on carbon.

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1 Thank you.

2 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

3 Questions?

4 [No audible response.] 

5 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both. 

6 Our next speakers are Jennifer Kaduck and 

7 Michael Hannan.

8 [Pause.]

9 MS. KEMKER: Ms. Kaduck, when you're 

10 ready, you may begin.

11 MS. KADUCK: Hello. Good afternoon. My 

12 name is Jennifer Kaduck. I advise Agnes Scott 

13 College on sustainability issues and am 

14 presenting my comments today on behalf of the 

15 college. In addition to my work there at the 

16 college, I'm also an alumni, and it's a great 

17 honor for me to be chosen to speak today on 

18 behalf of the college on this very important 

19 topic.

20 MS. KEMKER: Ms. Kaduck, would you mind 

21 spelling your name for the court reporter?

22 MS. KADUCK: Yes. It's Jennifer, J-e-nOLENDER REPORTING, INC.

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1 n-i-f-e-r, Kaduck, K-a-d-u-c-k. And I am an 

2 advisor for Agnes Scott College.

3 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

4 MS. KADUCK: Agnes Scott was founded in 

5 1889 in Decatur, Georgia, as an independent 

6 undergraduate college for women. Our mission is 

7 to educate women to think deeply, live honorably, 

8 and to engage the intellectual and social 

9 challenges of their times. And we have a long, 

10 proud history here in Georgia of doing that.

11 The climate change crisis is one of the 

12 most important intellectual and social challenges 

13 facing our world today. Addressing this crisis 

14 by reducing carbon pollution fits squarely into 

15 our mission at Agnes Scott and other institutions 

16 of higher learning.

17 The rules U.S. EPA has proposed will cut 

18 carbon emissions from power plants by 30 percent 

19 across the country by 2030 and create many 

20 thousands of jobs in the clean energy sector. We 

21 strongly support this proposal and encourage the 

22 agency to do even more to mitigate climate 

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1 change.

2 While these proposed rules are a start, 

3 they will not be nearly enough, though, to 

4 mitigate the many deleterious effects that the 

5 changing climate has on people's health, the 

6 environment, and economies throughout our country 

7 and world.

8 Last year, the college bought over 8 

9 million kilowatt hours of electricity. As a 

10 large-volume electricity customer, the college 

11 expects and is depending on significant 

12 reductions in the carbon intensity of the 

13 electricity that we will purchase in the future. 

14 These proposed rules will help make sure that 

15 happens.

16 Agnes Scott is deeply committed to 

17 combating climate change, as are many other 

18 colleges and universities throughout our nation. 

19 We are working hard to become carbon neutral and 

20 have a plan to achieve this by the year 2037. 

21 Since 2008, we've reduced carbon emissions by 

22 over 20 percent at Agnes Scott.

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1 Our climate action plan includes a 

2 greenhouse gas inventory that accounts for all 

3 our carbon emissions that are released on an 

4 annual basis. This inventory is the tool that we 

5 use to help us understand how campuses release 

6 carbon into the atmosphere and how we can target 

7 reductions.

8 Greenhouse gas inventories and climate 

9 action plan have been voluntarily submitted by 

10 more than 680 institutions of higher learning 

11 that have signed on to the American College and 

12 University Presidents' Climate Commitment, as we 

13 have. Together, these institutions have reduced 

14 their campus cumulative carbon emissions by more 

15 than 25 percent since 2007.

16 Our latest inventory, done in calendar 

17 year 2012, shows that Agnes Scott was responsible 

18 for emitting a total of 9,961 metric tons of 

19 carbon equivalent. Sixty-eight percent of the 

20 college's total emissions were attributable to 

21 the electricity we purchased. This purchased 

22 electricity is used to run air conditioning, 

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1 lights, computers, and other electrical equipment 

2 at the college.

3 To reduce our carbon emissions, our 

4 Climate Action Plan seeks to sharply reduce the 

5 amount of energy the colleges uses, through a 

6 variety of ways, including energy conservation 

7 through individual behavioral changes, energy 

8 efficiency of electrical equipment, efficient 

9 building design and renovation, use of 

10 alternative commuting and transportation methods, 

11 reduced solid-waste generation along with 

12 recycling and composting, the generation of 

13 renewable energy, and the purchase of less14 carbon-intensive electricity.

15 Like many small fossil-fuel-powered steam 

16 plants across the country in the twentieth 

17 century, Agnes Scott's original steam plant was 

18 closed in favor of a better technology. This 

19 beautiful, historic steam plant still stands on 

20 our campus awaiting a new purpose. And it's just 

21 a stone's throw away from a brand-new 20-kilowatt 

22 solar power array that graces the top of our 

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1 science building.

2 In early 2014, this solar array began 

3 producing about 30,000 kilowatt hours per year of 

4 carbon-free power, which is sold to Georgia Power 

5 through the company's advanced solar initiative 

6 and inserted into the electricity grid. Agnes 

7 Scott plans to increase solar production by more 

8 than tenfold by the end of this year by adding 

9 five more solar arrays.

10 In August, the college will reopen 

11 Campbell Hall, a historic building that's been 

12 completely renovated to lead gold standards. 

13 Using some of the world's most highly efficient 

14 heating and air conditioning technology, known as 

15 hybrid geothermal, that uses the deep earth as a 

16 heat source and a heat sink, this system uses 40 

17 percent less energy, and thus will emit about 40 

18 percent less carbon, than traditional HVAC 

19 systems.

20 To further reduce carbon emissions, the 

21 college has installed a fast-charging electric 

22 vehicle station on campus to use by the college 

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1 and the public. We're also modernizing our 

2 lighting systems across campus to further 

3 decrease energy consumption. These investments 

4 could reduce carbon emissions even more if the 

5 college could purchase electricity produced in a 

6 much less carbon-intensive manner.

7 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

8 MS. But all of what we're doing -- I'm 

9 almost finished --

10 MS. KEMKER: I'm sorry.

11 MS. KADUCK: -- is attempting to do on 

12 its own is not enough if purchased electricity 

13 continues to have the same intensity as it does 

14 now, or only if it's minimally reduced. We're 

15 relying on EPA rules to help the college reach 

16 carbon neutrality, and at the same time help us 

17 educate a generation of students as they learn to 

18 address climate change.

19 Thank you for the job you're doing for 

20 our country, and we are glad to speak in support 

21 of these rules today.

22 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

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1 Are there any questions?

2 [No audible response.] 

3 MS. KEMKER: Mr. Hannan.

4 MR. HANNAN: Hi. I'm Michael Hannan, H5 a-n-n-a-n. I'm a veteran, and I'm a citizen. I 

6 haven't prepared any notes. I've been listening 

7 to people all day.

8 Help me, Obi-Wan, you're our only hope. 

9 I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it 

10 anymore.

11 I talk to people all the time. I'm 

12 disabled, and I've got plenty of time on my 

13 hands. I talk to people from all walks of life. 

14 Thank you for finally taking steps to enforce and 

15 ensure a future for the health of our country.

16 I got angrier and angrier as I sat here 

17 today, listened to people talk on one issue or 

18 the other issue. One issue is the health of our 

19 country, of our air, our water, our soil, our 

20 children, what we breathe, what we eat, what we 

21 drink. The other one, "If you make us do this, 

22 we're going to raise our rates. If you make us 

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1 do this, we're going to run out of power and have 

2 brownouts."

3 Change is only going to come with the 

4 efforts that you're making. I wish you were 

5 making stronger efforts, just as a citizen.

6 You know, the only reason I'm speaking 

7 here today is so that you hear an ignorant person 

8 talk. There have been so many intelligent people 

9 come up here today, and you know -- you already 

10 know all the facts and figures.

11 The climate is changing. This is an 

12 emergency. It's a health emergency as well as an 

13 environmental emergency. And if you don't fix 

14 it, the industry will not. Even if you do fix 

15 it, they're going to drag their feet, just as 

16 they have, and it's going to take a lot longer 

17 than you think before any of these 

18 recommendations really go into effect.

19 So, I can't urge you any more. I'm 

20 incapable of urging you enough to resist the 

21 pleas from industry that this could endanger the 

22 supply of power to our country, that this could 

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1 eliminate jobs, as if they are not going to 

2 transition to a new and better economy, energy 

3 economy, because they will. We're not burning 

4 lots of lumber anymore. We don't need to keep 

5 burning coal anymore.

6 I wish the incentives for changing to 

7 natural gas weren't as positive as they are in 

8 your recommendations. But your recommendations, 

9 please, please, please hold the line. You are 

10 the Environmental Protection Agency. You are our 

11 only hope. If you don't protect us, no one else 

12 will.

13 That's it. Thank you very much for your 

14 time and for the opportunity to offer comments.

15 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

16 Our next speakers are Joanne Goldenhill 

17 and Tim Williams.

18 [Pause.]

19 MS. KEMKER: Hi. Ms. Goldenhill, when 

20 you're ready, please begin.

21 MS. GOLDENHILL: I'm ready.

22 My name is Joanne Goldenhill. That's 

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1 spelled J-o-a-n-n-e G-o-l-d-e-n-h-i-l-l.

2 I am a Kentuckian, and I am also a 

3 retired nurse, a photographer, and a member of 

4 Kentuckians for the Commonwealth, a grass-roots 

5 social organization.

6 I was born in Lynch, Kentucky, in Harlan 

7 County, on the site of Black Mountain, the 

8 highest mountain in our state. I believe that 

9 clean air and water is a human right. I want 

10 those things for us now and for the future 

11 generations.

12 As the EPA works to address the problem 

13 of climate change, you have the opportunity to 

14 improve health conditions for communities like 

15 mine that live in the shadows of highly polluting 

16 power plants. I urge you to make this Clean 

17 Power rule much stronger to protect our health 

18 and climate.

19 For more than 30 years, I've lived in 

20 Burnside, Kentucky, a small community in Pulaski 

21 County in Southeastern Kentucky. My great-uncle 

22 was one of the major founding fathers of 

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1 Burnside. My family has a long and proud history 

2 there.

3 Our community is also home to the Cooper 

4 Power Plant, EPA Registry ID No. 110013870944, a 

5 coal-burning power plant operated by East 

6 Kentucky Power Cooperative. It was built in 1965 

7 and is located on the banks of the Cumberland 

8 River, which flows into Lake Cumberland less than 

9 a half-a-mile away.

10 Directly across the river from the Cooper 

11 Power Plant is the Burnside Elementary School. 

12 This is a big concern I have, many family and 

13 friends who attended school there. We all sent 

14 our children there, including my two sons. Some 

15 people are now sending their grandchildren there. 

16 It doesn't matter what the weather is there, 

17 there's always a cloud over Burnside.

18 As I said, I'm a retired nurse. But you 

19 don't have to be a health care professional to be 

20 concerned about the excessive amount of cancer in 

21 this area. The rate of people having seizures is 

22 abnormally high in my community, as are brain and 

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1 lung cancer rates. It breaks my heart to think 

2 of how many people I know who live within five 

3 miles of this plant who are suffering or dead 

4 from cancer and seizures.

5 According to the Clean Air Task Force, 

6 air pollution from the Cooper Power Plant is 

7 linked with 35 premature deaths, 52 heart 

8 attacks, and 560 asthma attacks annually. Not 

9 only are we being exposed to toxic pollution from 

10 stack releases from the Cooper Power Plant, it 

11 also discharges some of the toxic chemicals, 

12 including lead, mercury, and a large list of 

13 others, into our waters of Lake Cumberland and 

14 Cumberland River.

15 I'm here today to speak up for all the 

16 people in the frontline communities where fossil 

17 fuels are mined, drilled, and burnt. I'm here to 

18 ask you to make this Clean Power rule stronger to 

19 protect our health in three ways.

20 One, the EPA gave Kentucky the third21 lowest carbon-reduction target of all 50 states. 

22 Why is Kentucky at the bottom? We're the ones 

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1 with the most health benefits to gain from 

2 shifting to cleaner energy sources. According to 

3 recent reports, the utilities in our state will 

4 get more than halfway to the EPA's target without 

5 taking a single step. The bar is not high 

6 enough.

7 If you go easy on the utilities in our 

8 state, it means that communities like mine will 

9 continue to be exposed to toxic pollution for 

10 decades to come. We deserve better.

11 Two. The EPA rule ignores your own 

12 science about harmful pollution caused by 

13 switching to other fuels, including natural gas 

14 and biomass. If this rule drives Kentucky to 

15 shift from burning coal to burning gas, garbage, 

16 and forests, you will have achieved nothing. The 

17 EPA must use the best science about greenhouse 

18 gas emissions of each fuel source, and push 

19 utilities away from fuels that will only continue 

20 to harm our health and our climate.

21 Three. The EPA rule doesn't do enough to 

22 promote energy efficiencies, renewable energy in 

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1 our state.

2 Kentucky is the Saudi Arabia of wasted 

3 energy. Our homes use 30 percent more 

4 electricity than the national average. This EPA 

5 rule should require our utilities to ramp up 

6 efficiency programs aimed at helping customers 

7 save money by saving energy. Without any 

8 efficiency requirements from the EPA, we can 

9 expect our utilities and lawmakers to do very 

10 little on their own.

11 In closing, I want to remind EPA and all 

12 of us that clean air and water is a basic human 

13 right. I want that for us now and for the 

14 future. Without clean water and air to breathe, 

15 and without a safe and stable climate, there is 

16 no future for anyone.

17 Thank you for all you do.

18 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

19 Mr. Williams.

20 MR. WILLIAMS: Hi. My name is Tim

21 Williams, T-i-m W-i-l-l-i-a-m-s.

22 And I am the Vice President of Corporate 

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1 and External Affairs for GreyStone Power 

2 Corporation, a nonprofit member-owned electric 

3 cooperative in Douglasville, Georgia.

4 I want to thank you today for allowing me 

5 the opportunity to speak to you about this 

6 important issue that we all face as an American.

7 GreyStone Power serves almost 110,000 

8 member-owners in portions of eight west metro 

9 Atlanta counties. Electric co-ops such as 

10 GreyStone are a unique subset of the electric 

11 utility industry. We are a not-for-profit, 

12 member-owned, and member-governed utility. We 

13 provide electricity to almost 42 million people 

14 nationwide. That covers almost 70 percent of the 

15 land area of this great country.

16 Our responsibility is to provide for our 

17 consumers with safe, reliable, and affordable 

18 power. This EPA proposal calls for a fundamental 

19 shift in the way that electricity is generated 

20 and used. One of the greatest concerns we have 

21 is the cost increase this will cause for our 

22 consumers.

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1 In order to meet these proposed 

2 guidelines, coal-fired power plants will be shut 

3 down on a scale that is unprecedented. Demand 

4 for natural gas will also surge, which means 

5 prices will naturally increase.

6 Georgia families and Georgia businesses 

7 will bear the brunt of these cost increases. 

8 Electric co-ops like GreyStone Power strive to 

9 keep our rates affordable. If this proposed 

10 regulation goes into effect, monthly utility 

11 bills will increase; that is a fact.

12 An increase in the cost of electricity 

13 means that families in our eight counties could 

14 be forced to choose between tasks such as filling 

15 up the car, buying prescription drugs, or keeping 

16 the lights on.

17 And if I may stray just for a minute 

18 today, I'd like to make some personal remarks 

19 after hearing some of the testimony today. I too 

20 am very involved in the spiritual life of my 

21 community. I'm an ordained elder in the 

22 Presbyterian Church USA.

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1 My daughter received her Bachelor's and 

2 Master's Degrees from the Georgia Institute of 

3 Technology in Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, so 

4 we have these discussions quite often when I do 

5 see her. She now works at the University of 

6 Hawaii in Honolulu in their Earth and Atmospheric 

7 Science Department.

8 But my daughter believes in manmade 

9 climate change, and so do I. I grew up in the 

10 1960s in Birmingham, Alabama, which for those of 

11 you old enough in the room to remember, when we 

12 had really, really polluted air in the U.S., 

13 Birmingham was one of the most polluted cities in 

14 the entire United States, with its heavy focus on 

15 the steel industry.

16 My father worked for the U.S. Steel 

17 Corporation in coal mines and also in the steel 

18 plants for his entire career. My brother and I 

19 worked in the blast furnaces. We would pay our 

20 way through school. So we would work a year, go 

21 to school for a year. So it paid for our 

22 education.

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1 Those were union jobs, very high-paid 

2 jobs for low-skilled employees. So we have much 

3 to owe that type of industry. Unfortunately, it 

4 was a very dirty industry. Most of the steel 

5 mills have closed in Birmingham. And the air is, 

6 hence, much cleaner. But it took a large 

7 transition, a lot of pain, to get to that day.

8 And we have that clean air as opposed to 

9 the 1960s, thanks to the environmental laws and 

10 the creation of your organization, the EPA, back 

11 in the late '60s, early '70s.

12 All of my colleagues in my industry 

13 today, we love our children just as much as 

14 anybody else in this room. And sometimes, we 

15 resent the fact, but we can understand it 

16 sometime, of the implications that we're for 

17 dirty air, we're for profits, and all that.

18 But in my industry, we're a nonprofit co19 op. The only reason we exist is to provide power 

20 to our members at the lowest possible cost. So 

21 we want the best for our children's future and 

22 our unborn grandchildren and for generations to 

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1 come.

2 Our only disagreement seems to be on, how 

3 do we get to that area that we're all shooting 

4 for, lower carbon levels not only in the U.S., 

5 but also in the world? And let me just give you 

6 one little success story that I will say that was 

7 market-based in our situation.

8 Up to four years ago, 60 percent of our 

9 power was coming, at GreyStone Power, from coal10 burning power plants. In 2013, that had fallen 

11 to 9 percent of coal. Most of that was filled in 

12 with, obviously, a large amount of natural gas, 

13 but also nuclear and hydro assets.

14 So I say all that to urge the EPA to go 

15 slowly on this proposal, because coal is still 

16 going to be part of the equation, you know. The 

17 question is, how much? You know, I think even 

18 President Obama has admitted to that. And we 

19 need to work together to ensure that we keep our 

20 power on and also keep our rates affordable by 

21 working to that same goal.

22 Thank you.

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1 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

2 I appreciate that time that everyone is 

3 taking to come here and speak this evening.

4 Our next speakers are John Todd Waterman 

5 and Marlene Taylor.

6 [Pause.]

7 MR. WATERMAN: I'm John Todd Waterman. I 

8 want to thank you for hearing us today. I also 

9 want to thank you for these unprecedented carbon 

10 pollution standards.

11 I'm from Oak Ridge, Tennessee, where a

12 lot of important climate research is done. I'm 

13 the Tennessee State Climate Lead for Organizing 

14 for Action. Unlike many of your critics here 

15 today, no one is paying me to be here. I'm here 

16 because I deeply care about our future.

17 I love kids, and I'm sure you do, too. 

18 I'm here to speak for all our little girls and 

19 boys who can't yet speak for themselves. They 

20 need your help -- our children, our 

21 grandchildren, the children and grandchildren 

22 they will also love, and countless generations of 

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1 our progeny for farther into the future than we 

2 can imagine, far more kids than have ever lived 

3 until now. Their future is in your hands.

4 That future grows darker with every 

5 moment we delay the kind of courageous action the 

6 EPA is proposing with your Clean Power Plan. Our 

7 own kids will be around in 2050, and we hope in 

8 2100, by which time climate change's devastating 

9 consequences will be too obvious to ignore.

10 But today, there are protesters outside 

11 who sincerely believe that climate change is a 

12 hoax and the EPA is just making a power grab. 

13 They believe that the 97 percent of climate 

14 scientists throughout the world, having chosen a 

15 profession in which the truth is everything, have 

16 now all chosen to lie in perfect unison.

17 That's a pretty preposterous conspiracy 

18 theory, but we all want to believe what our 

19 friends believe. As the producer of Years of 

20 Living Dangerously recently told me, quote, "If 

21 you don't like the solution, you don't like the 

22 problem," unquote.

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1 And the problem is this: Countries, 

2 states, and companies with fossil interests hold 

3 27 trillion in carbon reserves, enough to raise 

4 global temperatures by 9 to 11 degrees 

5 Fahrenheit, devastating our planet for millennia. 

6 They can only sell it all if they can block green 

7 energy by convincing voters and politicians that 

8 97 percent of scientists are wrong or corrupt. 

9 So they're spending hundreds of millions 

10 of their record profits on a secretive worldwide 

11 tobacco-inspired disinformation campaign with 

12 elite goal to, quote, "reposition global warming 

13 as theory, not fact," taking a hint from the 

14 tobacco industry, which did exactly the same 

15 thing.

16 They trumpet data-cooking deniers 

17 followed by more oil than pelicans in an oil 

18 spill. They can cherry-pick time periods when 

19 temperatures have dropped, say that's proof 

20 they're falling, and spread that all over the 

21 Web, knowing Google or email or Facebook can't 

22 tell us if it's just a pile of bull painted red, 

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1 white, and blue.

2 But the scientists I know in Oak Ridge 

3 are scared to death we won't act and act fast to 

4 kick fossil fuels. And they can't believe we're 

5 not heeding their warnings. They know climate 

6 change is the greatest threat we humans have ever 

7 faced.

8 Deniers' cries that green energy will 

9 kill the economy are just as bogus. Back in 

10 2006, the British Treasury concluded in the well11 respected Stern Review that we could kick fossil 

12 energy for 1 percent of world GDP, whereas not 

13 doing so would cost from 5 percent of world GDP 

14 up to 20 percent, or more, quote, "now and 

15 forever," unquote, if we do nothing. That's a 

16 Great Depression with no hope of any recovery.

17 Stern recently said he, quote, "far, far 

18 underestimated climate change's impact in that 

19 report." And the IPCC now gives the cost of 

20 mitigation at 0.6 percent of world GDP. But 

21 deniers dominate conservative policy, and they've 

22 persuaded half of Americans, including those 

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1 protesters today.

2 You can bet the Koch brothers, whose 

3 Americans for Prosperity are behind the protest 

4 and whose billions in fossil fuels are at stake, 

5 don't believe climate denial for a moment. I 

6 mean, they went to MIT. And neither do the 

7 fossil corporations whose testimony you're 

8 hearing today.

9 I implore you not to place our children's 

10 future in their hands. Denial is history's 

11 ultimate lie. And that lie is the source of most 

12 of the public support for the fossil interests 

13 who are telling you to get out of their business 

14 today. I urge you to discount that support 

15 accordingly.

16 We've made tremendous strides in 

17 reversing emancipation, suffrage, discrimination, 

18 and other injustices. But climate's different. 

19 We can't reverse it. Hanson and others tell us 

20 our CO2 will persist for hundreds or thousands of 

21 years.

22 We can't take the ice that melts to 

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1 inundate Florida, our great coastal cities, even 

2 entire countries, and put it back on the Poles. 

3 We can't take the acid from the oceans or bring 

4 back extinct species. We can't stop the super5 storms, droughts, and desertification that the 

6 IPCC says will reduce food supplies just as the 

7 population grows from 7 to 9 billion.

8 Because climate change is truly the 

9 greatest challenge we have ever faced, and 

10 because it's irreversible, it's also the greatest 

11 opportunity we have ever had to do real and 

12 enduring good. I hope you will take that 

13 opportunity. Do it for your kids, for our kids, 

14 for all the kids to come, for all time.

15 Don't experiment on our children for the 

16 sake of fleeting short-term profits, as some here 

17 today are asking. Don't send all those kids to 

18 come the bill for our gridlock and our greed. 

19 That's a bill they could never pay off, one that 

20 makes the national debt look tiny.

21 MS. KEMKER: Mr. Waterman, if you'll wrap 

22 it up soon.

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1 MR. WATERMAN: Earth is their only home. 

2 Help leave them a clean, green world, one of 

3 abundance and opportunity, where they can thrive 

4 and be healthy and happy and free. Help us lead 

5 the world at last. The kids will be grateful, 

6 all of them.

7 Thank you all so much.

8 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

9 MR. STENHOUSE: Just one question.

10 MS. KEMKER: Yes. Please.

11 MR. STENHOUSE: Mr. Waterman, if you, 

12 when you submit, you know, any written support 

13 for your testimony, I think you mentioned an 

14 estimate of how many degrees of increase might 

15 occur if carbon reserves were burned?

16 MR. WATERMAN: Yes. That's translated to 

17 Fahrenheit, because we Americans tend to think in 

18 Fahrenheit.

19 MR. STENHOUSE: That was my clarification 

20 question. But certainly, including a citation to 

21 where you found that figure would be helpful to 

22 us as well.

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1 MR. WATERMAN: Yeah. That was quoted 

2 from a Bill McKibben article, and he was citing 

3 another source for that. I will find that source 

4 for you and include that as a citation.

5 MR. STENHOUSE: Thank you very much.

6 MR. WATERMAN: Yes, sir.

7 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

8 Ms. Taylor.

9 MS. TAYLOR: Hi. My name is Marlene 

10 Taylor, M-a-r-l-e-n-e T-a-y-l-o-r. I'm from 

11 Knoxville, Tennessee, and I work there as a 

12 freelance writer and journalist. Thank you for 

13 allowing me to testify today.

14 The Great Smoky Mountains National Park, 

15 one of the most beautiful places on earth, is 

16 under serious attack again. First, it was the 

17 lumber companies that sliced and diced their way 

18 through the mountains. Thankfully, and not a 

19 moment too soon, President Roosevelt set aside 

20 the land for future generations, like me.

21 Today's threat is pollution that affects 

22 every aspect of the park -- the air, the soil, 

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1 the water, and all life. I grew up visiting the 

2 park often, hiking its trails or picnicking 

3 beside one of the many mesmerizing streams that 

4 flows down from the peaks, and breathing in that 

5 wonderful oxygenated air.

6 Those visits instilled in me something I 

7 can't fully explain, other than to say that each 

8 time I moved away from East Tennessee, I missed 

9 them terribly. I remember tearing up, in a 

10 California bookstore, just seeing a photograph of 

11 the Blue Ridge Mountains, swathed in those 

12 beautiful, familiar shades of blue and gray. 

13 Nothing ever seemed quite as beautiful as they 

14 are.

15 The scientists who evaluate the air and 

16 the air currents tell us that the park is 

17 downwind of many sources of air pollution, 

18 including power plants, factories, vehicles, and 

19 agriculture, sources that are both nearby and 

20 regional, such as the pollution stacks along the 

21 Ohio River, and industrial cities of the Midwest 

22 and Southeast, including Knoxville.

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1 Power plants and pollution stacks are the 

2 key terms here. Burning coal is the major 

3 contributor of not just one type of air 

4 pollution, but nearly all types. Sulfur dioxide 

5 causes acidification of soil and water. Nitrogen 

6 oxides cause ground-level ozone. Mercury causes 

7 brain damage and heart problems, and arsenic 

8 causes cancer. Then there's lead and other heavy 

9 metals, and the particulate matter, which we 

10 breathe into our lungs.

11 Particulates are also why people in 

12 Knoxville can no longer see Mount Le Conte, nor 

13 do visitors in the park have clear vistas as they 

14 try to see their way across the mountains.

15 The toxic levels of acid deposition in 

16 the park exceed what scientists call "a critical 

17 load," meaning levels have surpassed those that 

18 are not likely to be harmful and are indeed 

19 inflicting damage, particularly on trees and 

20 aquatic life.

21 Do you want to go fly-fishing in a 

22 mountain stream? If we continue burning coal and 

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1 emitting sulfuric acid, that likely will not be 

2 possible, because neither the trout nor the 

3 insects they eat can survive in acidic water.

4 Do you want to go on a wildflower hike 

5 like millions of other visitors to the park, to 

6 see rare flowering plants found only there? You 

7 should go now. And don't expect that your 

8 descendants will be able to do the same. Ozone 

9 is rough on these delicate herbs, burning away 

10 their leaves. These plants are not tough pioneer 

11 species, but require very special conditions and 

12 are as delicate as the Lady's Slipper.

13 We often have orange alert days in 

14 Knoxville, when the media tell us to limit our 

15 time outdoors because of high levels of ground16 level ozone. We are advised to keep our children 

17 indoors because their sensitive and young lung 

18 tissue can be burned and irreparably damaged by 

19 the ground-level ozone.

20 I actually know how that feels. I myself 

21 experience some shortness of breath and develop a 

22 slight cough when I'm outside during those times. 

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1 And I can tell you that on some days, you can't 

2 drive in Knoxville with your windows down. For 

3 me, I get a headache from the emissions and have 

4 to seal myself in, even on a beautiful spring or 

5 fall day.

6 I want to ask, what were we thinking when 

7 we ignored the harmful effects of coal-burning 

8 and didn't do enough to keep us from reaching 

9 this level of pollution? Instead, I respectfully 

10 ask that you, the Environmental Protection 

11 Agency, please fulfill your mission to protect 

12 our environment, to significantly slow and reduce 

13 the amount of coal being burned, and restrict its 

14 use as an energy source.

15 Thank you.

16 MS. KEMKER: Thank you both.

17 MR. WATERMAN: Thank you.

18 MS. TAYLOR: Thank you.

19 MS. KEMKER: Our next two speakers are 

20 Edrichus Sykes -- and if I pronounced that 

21 incorrectly, please forgive me and correct me --

22 and Tom Sexton.

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1 [Pause.]

2 MS. KEMKER: Mr. Sykes, when you're 

3 ready, you may begin.

4 [Pause.] 

5 MR. SYKES: Good afternoon. Greetings. 

6 My name is Edrichus Remond Sykes. And it's 

7 Edrichus, E-d-r-i-c-h-u-s Sykes, S-y-k-e-s.

8 Chairman Upton, Ranking Member Whitfield, 

9 and members of the subcommittee, thank you for 

10 convening this hearing and for providing the 

11 Climate Reality Project to testify. I am 

12 Edrichus Remond Sykes, building physician, 

13 climate ambassador, and founder of Pure Green 

14 Coatings, a renewable and environmental firm here 

15 in Atlanta, Georgia.

16 I'm a service-disabled veteran-owned 

17 small, socially economic, disadvantaged business 

18 enterprise headquartered in the Historic in-town 

19 community of Vine City.

20 I'll share a vision as the world we 

21 engage, live, and work in and play in, in harmony 

22 with nature. I have submitted my full statement 

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1 to the committee, which I ask to be made part of 

2 the hearing record. I will now give a brief 

3 opening statement.

4 I am present by choice and desire to help 

5 the committee with jurisdiction over energy and 

6 power. My involvement in this case is not simply 

7 a career endeavor and is more than my family 

8 history, as if that would be enough. I come from 

9 a small rural village in West Point, Mississippi, 

10 where even when I was a youth, my great11 grandmother and great-uncle collected rainwater 

12 and did further the energy conservation measures, 

13 and still to this day we collect rainwater now in 

14 barrels.

15 I beg you to make the most of the present 

16 opportunity and make it happen now. I urge 

17 adoption of the new carbon dioxide regulations 

18 for existing power plants, proposed rule of 

19 carbon pollution emission guidelines for existing 

20 stationary sources. Pure Green Coatings, LLC, 

21 doing business at 81 Pure Green, was formed in 

22 March 2008 to provide energy conservation 

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1 measures that would result in energy or fossil 

2 fuel savings.

3 81 Pure Green is expanding worldwide by 

4 teaming with non-governmental organizations like 

5 Intellectual Decisions on Environmental 

6 Awareness, who has formed member organizations in 

7 various countries.

8 PGC's outgrowth of American investment 

9 acts has resulted in its assisting even national 

10 and international non-governmental offices for 

11 environment. Last year, August the 1st, they had 

12 their first-time-in-history hailstorm, which 

13 resulted in devastation of crops after multiple 

14 mudslides as a result of climate change.

15 Over 5,000 villagers were left hungry and 

16 in need of services while we provided aid and 

17 assistance.

18 Some of the community partners that we 

19 currently work with includes the Climate Reality 

20 Project, where I am ambassador. In 2012, I was 

21 trained by former Vice President Al Gore to go 

22 out and give presentations. Sierra Club, the 

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1 Citizens Climate Lobby, Green Chamber of the 

2 South, as well.

3 I serve as building position and the CEO 

4 of this firm and work toward collaboratively 

5 setting a paradigm of energy performance for 

6 individuals suffering from carbon pollution, 

7 which is driving climate disruption, and we're 

8 all paying the costs. We're paying for it in 

9 dollars for higher health care bills. We're 

10 paying for it in lives devastated by extreme 

11 weather events.

12 As a disaster inspector, working with the 

13 Department of Homeland Security, I saw this 

14 firsthand in Hurricane Irene in New York and New 

15 Jersey, the first time many families -- had never 

16 thought that they will see that type of issue or 

17 disaster. But after 50 years, they have seen 

18 that.

19 Here in Georgia, we have made very little 

20 changes. The state has not implemented any 

21 climate change policies. And action plans for 

22 its 2010 legislatives was not passed in a 

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1 resolution for Congress asking to adopt even cap2 and-trade laws.

3 We're also paying for it in lost jobs and 

4 everywhere imaginable. We can't afford these 

5 costs any longer. And it's time to take action 

6 by raising awareness of our campaign to support 

7 the Environmental Protection Agency's Clean Power 

8 Plan and other landmark federal, state, and local 

9 initiatives to cut carbon pollution and replace 

10 dirty fossil fuels with clean, renewable energy.

11 The Climate Reality Leadership Corps 

12 campaign, the People vs. Carbon, founded by Vice 

13 President Al Gore, Nobel Laureate, has provided 

14 education and establishing programs or services 

15 that can be replicated in multiple countries.

16 The EPA has done its job drafting a plan 

17 that points the way forward for our climate, our 

18 health, and our economy. Now it's time for us 

19 citizens to work together through the People vs. 

20 Carbon so this landmark measure becomes law.

21 Accomplishing these goals includes 

22 educating families and professionals about green 

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1 color career pathways, proposed new clean color 

2 work-ready job-skills training programs, which 

3 could assist even the coal workers from, instead 

4 of working on fossil fuel-related jobs, they have 

5 an opportunity to benefit from EPA's ruling on 

6 the Clean Power Plan by leveraging existing 

7 skills and experience in new, renewable 

8 environmental jobs now and in the future.

9 This will also benefit seniors, non10 custodial parents, individuals in the State of 

11 Georgia who are currently under Fatherhood, and 

12 problem-solving court programs, disabled, and 

13 other veterans, low-income and moderate 

14 unemployed, unemployed, dislocated workers, along 

15 with people with disabilities, high school 

16 dropouts, and people with criminal records all 

17 living in low-income and high-poverty areas.

18 We excel at utilizing high-impact federal 

19 and state hiring and training programs. However, 

20 the President's Climate Action Plan, released by 

21 the Executive Office of the President June 2013, 

22 last year, was a groundbreaking first step toward 

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1 cutting carbon pollution in America.

2 However, it is no secret that the U.S. is 

3 behind the curve of several other countries that 

4 have already taken on greenhouse gas emissions, 

5 implemented renewable energy plans, which are in 

6 place or in process. We have a lot of homework 

7 to do, but we can learn a lot from what has 

8 already been done overseas, both in planning and 

9 political comment.

10 Instead of digging for hidden treasures, 

11 destroying our planet, we need to wake up and 

12 raise to a new level of consciousness where we 

13 utilize nature's gifts for our best benefit --

14 sun, wind, and water.

15 MS. KEMKER: Mr. Sykes, if you'll wrap it 

16 up soon. Thank you.

17 MR. SYKES: The next crucial step for a 

18 plan to provide the U.S. with more authority and 

19 leverage necessary to take a leadership role in 

20 the upcoming Climate Summit 2014 to be held in 

21 the United Nations and New York this September, 

22 as well as the following UN Climate Change 

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1 Conference in Lima, Peru. Why, even in Peru, 

2 they just implemented programs for low-income 

3 individuals to receive free solar power.

4 I'm going to end with a quote from John 

5 Lewis, a writer who was awarded the Presidential 

6 Medal of Freedom in 2010. He said, "I say to 

7 people today, 'You must be prepared if you 

8 believe in something. If you believe in 

9 something, you have to go for it. As 

10 individuals, we may not live to see the end.'"

11 Anyone pro-green? The Climate Reality 

12 Project looks forward to working with the members 

13 of the subcommittee to address the important 

14 issues raised in today's hearing.

15 I thank you again for the opportunity to 

16 testify. And I'd be glad to answer any 

17 questions.

18 MS. KEMKER: Thank you.

19 At this point, I would like to thank 

20 everyone for their time, their interest. I know 

21 it takes time and, truly, dedication to be here 

22 today, both to comment and to be here to witness 

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1 those comments and to participate in the 

2 important process.

3 We do want to hear from everyone. So 

4 thank you very much. We are going to take a 

5 brief recess until 10 after 6:00, at which time 

6 -- sorry, 20 after 6:00, at which time we will 

7 resume our hearing and opportunity to receive 

8 comments.

9 Thank you.

10 [Recess taken from 5:30 to 6:20 p.m.]

11 EVENING SESSION

12 PANEL NUMBER 3

13 MS. BANISTER: Good evening. My name is 

14 Beverly Banister. I'm the Air Director here in 

15 Region 4 in Atlanta, and I'm one of the Chairs of 

16 today's public hearing.

17 Thank you for coming out this evening.

18 Joining me on the panel this evening are 

19 Jeb Stenhouse. He's the Air Program Manager with 

20 the Office of Air and Radiation, and he's part of 

21 our rule-writing team. 

22 And we also have Daryl Weatherhead, who's 

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1 the Managing Economist on this team.

2 Tonight we are here to listen to your 

3 comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 

4 pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 

5 of these proposed rules on June 2nd, 2014. Power 

6 plants are the largest source of carbon pollution 

7 in the U.S., accounting for roughly one-third of 

8 all domestic greenhouse gas emissions.

9 The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 

10 Power Plan for existing power plants. This 

11 proposal consists of two main parts: state12 specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 

13 power plants, and guidelines to help states 

14 develop their plans for meeting their goals.

15 This proposal gives states flexibility in 

16 determining how to meet their goals. States will 

17 choose what goes into their plans that show how 

18 they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 

19 their goals by 2030.

20 The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 

21 address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 

22 and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 

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1 set emission limits for two groups of power 

2 plants: those that make physical or operational 

3 changes that increase the plant's maximum 

4 achievable hourly rate of emissions; and those 

5 that replace components to such an extent that 

6 the new components exceed 50 percent of the 

7 capital cost of an entirely new compatible 

8 facility.

9 If you would like more detail on either 

10 of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 

11 available near the registration desk.

12 Today's hearing is one of four public 

13 hearings across the country this week on the two 

14 proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 

15 in each of these hearings, and I would like to 

16 thank you, for you've taken your time this 

17 evening to join us and share your comments.

18 We've had a lot of people to sign up to 

19 speak during this hearing, and we want to hear 

20 from all of you. So, before we get started, I 

21 would like to go through a few housekeeping items 

22 and ground rules that will help make today's 

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1 hearing continue to run smoothly.

2 First, please be sure you have checked in 

3 at the registration desk even if you are not 

4 planning to speak tonight. And if you signed up 

5 to speak online or by phone, but haven't told us 

6 that you're here, please step out to the 

7 registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 

8 you have arrived.

9 Secondly, if you are a speaker, you are 

10 given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 

11 or Room B. This is Room B. Are you in the right 

12 room? If not, this would be a good time to 

13 transition to the appropriate room.

14 All right. Let's talk about how today's 

15 hearing would work. I will call speakers up in 

16 pairs. When your name is called, please come to 

17 the table in front of the room. 

18 When I call on you to speak, please state 

19 your name and spell it for the court reporter. 

20 Your comments will be transcribed and included in 

21 the record of comments on the proposed rule. 

22 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

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1 give comments. We will have a light to help you 

2 know how much time you have left to speak. When 

3 the light turns from green to yellow, that you 

4 means you have one minute remaining. When it 

5 turns red, that's a signal to wrap up your 

6 testimony. The light will flash red and beep 

7 when you have spoken for five minutes, and then 

8 it will be time to stop.

9 When you're finished speaking, please 

10 remain at the table until the person next to you 

11 has completed his or her testimony.

12 We are here to listen to you tonight. 

13 However, a panel member may ask you questions or 

14 ask you to clarify your comments. I will then 

15 call up the next set of speakers, and so on.

16 If you have brought a written copy of 

17 your testimony, please give that to the staff at 

18 the registration desk before you leave today.

19 Because of the large number of people who

20 have signed up to speak, and to be fair to 

21 everyone, we're going to have to strictly adhere 

22 to the five-minute limit.

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1 If you have additional comments that you 

2 would like to make, you can submit them -- and we 

3 encourage you to submit them -- in writing. Let 

4 me assure you that EPA gives just as much 

5 consideration to comments we receive in writing 

6 as we do to comments that we receive at public 

7 hearings like this one. So, if you have more 

8 that you would like to say, please submit it. 

9 Your comments will be reviewed.

10 There is still plenty of time to get 

11 written comments in, and there are comment cards 

12 available at the registration desk. Comments 

13 must be received by October 16th, 2014.

14 We will put any written comments 

15 submitted today in the official docket for the 

16 proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 

17 written comments in other ways are available at 

18 the materials desk near the registration desk.

19 We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 

20 tonight. We may take a break; it just depends on 

21 how long we are here. But we'll keep you posted 

22 as the night goes on.

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1 If you have any questions, please see the 

2 staff at the registration desk, and someone will 

3 try to help you.

4 Finally, I want to ask each of you to 

5 please be respectful of everyone who speaks 

6 tonight. We have people with a wide variety of 

7 views in the audience, and we want to hear from 

8 all of you. So we can do that and be fair to 

9 everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly. 

10 Even applause can slow things down, and we want 

11 to hear from everyone who has signed up to speak.

12 So, again, thank you for coming out 

13 tonight to share your comments on the EPA's 

14 proposed rules. Let's get started.

15 I would like to invite Laura Brefogyle, 

16 B-r-e-f-o-g-y-l-e -- make sure I pronounced that 

17 -- Eleanor Hand, H-a-n-d. Would you please come 

18 up?

19 [Pause.]

20 MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much for 

21 joining us tonight. Would you like to begin?

22 MS. HAND: Hello. My name is Eleanor 

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1 Hand, E-l-e-a-n-o-r H-a-n-d.

2 I live in Atlanta. Thank you for giving 

3 me the opportunity to tell my story and express 

4 my views in support of the EPA Clean Power Plan.

5 I and my family have personally 

6 experienced the effects of carbon pollution and 

7 have subsequently viewed the fine line between 

8 life and death. I will tell my story perched on 

9 a three-legged stool. One leg is in Atlanta, one 

10 is in California, and one is in the Caribbean.

11 One, my son almost died from asthma in 

12 Atlanta in 1988. My children grew up in the '80s 

13 and '90s. They suffered from asthma. We made 

14 five trips to the emergency room. These trips 

15 were in the late afternoon. The children had 

16 been playing outside in hot, polluted air trapped 

17 over the city. The skies were not blue. My 

18 child was turning blue. We arrived in the 

19 emergency room just in time to save him.

20 I suffer from inflammatory joint disease 

21 that is aggravated on Code Orange days. On these 

22 days, we've learned to stay inside and use air 

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1 filters. This is difficult and unnatural for a 

2 family that loves outdoor exercise, blue skies, 

3 and connection with nature.

4 I wanted to send our medical bills to 

5 Georgia Power. Georgia has the number-one and 

6 number-three most polluting power plants in the 

7 United States. My children have chosen to move 

8 to cleaner air in Vermont and Lake Tahoe, 

9 California. Georgia will be a healthier place 

10 for them to live in 2030 if Georgia has reduced 

11 the carbon emissions from power plants 44 percent 

12 below 2005 levels.

13 Two. My daughter and her husband work in 

14 the winter ski industry in Lake Tahoe. Their 

15 jobs may disappear. The ski industry is 

16 teetering between frantic investments in 

17 artificial snow-making and economic collapse 

18 after a decade of drought and low snowfall. Over 

19 the last decade, the winter tourism industry has 

20 lost an estimated $1 billion and as many as 

21 27,000 jobs.

22 This is the result of diminished snowfall 

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1 patterns. These figures were published in a 2012 

2 study commissioned by Protect Our Winters and the 

3 Natural Resources Defense Council. The authors 

4 write that failure to respond quickly to climate 

5 change, quote, "spells economic devastation for 

6 our winter sports industry deeply dependent upon 

7 predictable heavy snowfall," unquote.

8 For decades, dirty power plants have been 

9 allowed to dump unlimited amounts of carbon into 

10 the air. Reducing carbon emissions from power 

11 plants may save some winter jobs in the sports 

12 industry.

13 Three. In 1985, my children and I swam 

14 in wonder and awe among vital, colorful, and 

15 plentiful coral in the Caribbean. In 2011, I 

16 swam with shock and horror among the dying, 

17 bleached-white, and scarce coral in those same 

18 Caribbean waters. Tropical coral reefs form the 

19 very foundation of marine diversity, and they 

20 protect our shorelines. 

21 Have you snorkeled or dived in the coral 

22 reefs of the Caribbean? In 1985, the corals in 

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1 the Caribbean were iridescent and green as spring 

2 leaves. Yellow and orange like ripening 

3 tomatoes, purple, pinks, royal blue, turquoise, 

4 shocking red all mixed together like an abstract 

5 painting. If you've not seen those reefs, it may 

6 be too late.

7 In 2011, I returned to the Caribbean and 

8 snorkeled in areas far from human development. I 

9 saw reefs that were white and crumbling. There 

10 was an occasional "Aha! There's a bit of color 

11 over there." Whoa. Our grandchildren will only 

12 see pictures of vividly colored coral in history 

13 books, books that sit next to the dinosaur books 

14 on their shelves.

15 Colorful algae living in the tissue of 

16 coral provide color and food to the coral. When 

17 the sea-surface temperatures rise, these algae 

18 pack up and they move off, leaving the coral 

19 tissue white and hungry.

20 The EPA website indicates a rise in sea21 surface temperatures of 0.13 degrees Fahrenheit 

22 for decades between 1901 and 2013. Additionally, 

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1 they are absorbing -- the oceans are absorbing 

2 CO2, 24 million tons every day.

3 Viewing life on planet earth from my 

4 three-legged stool, it seems the time is now, not 

5 later, to adopt the EPA Clean Power Plan. Time 

6 to stop debating, take care of our children's 

7 health, preserve jobs in industries that are 

8 collapsing as a result of climate disruption, and 

9 stop the destruction of ecosystems that sustain 

10 us.

11 Thank you.

12 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

13 Before you leave, Jeb, do ya'll have any 

14 questions?

15 [No audible response.] 

16 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you.

17 [Pause.] 

18 MS. BANISTER: I would now like to invite 

19 up Michael Wall and Jim Nichols.

20 [Pause.] 

21 MS. BANISTER: Thank you, gentlemen, for 

22 being with us tonight.

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1 Michael, would you state your name and 

2 spell it for the court reporter?

3 MR. WALL: My name is Michael Wall, M-i4 c-h-a-e-l W-a-l-l.

5 I'm a seventh-generation Georgia farmer, 

6 and I'm Director of Programs for Georgia 

7 Organics, the nonprofit organization for the 

8 state's organic and sustainable agricultural 

9 community. We have about 1,700 members 

10 statewide, 300 of which are farmers, organic and 

11 sustainable farmers.

12 Even in the most ideal conditions,

13 farming has never been easier. Lately, it's been 

14 getting a lot tougher. Farmers in Georgia have 

15 already begun to experience extreme weather 

16 events -- intense freezes, droughts, floods, and 

17 many of the other symptoms climate change 

18 scientists have been warning us about for 

19 decades.

20 The prediction for Georgia's climate and 

21 her agriculture industry are grim. According to 

22 a Georgia Tech report, climate change has the 

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1 potential to decrease the availability of water 

2 resources due to probable changes in rainfall 

3 distribution. Most climate models and studies 

4 consistently forecast more storms, or scientists 

5 prefer "heavy precipitation events."

6 Another study by the American Security 

7 Project estimates that temperatures in Georgia 

8 could rise by 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit in winter 

9 and 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit in summer, accompanied 

10 by a 5 percent increase in annual precipitation.

11 For those reasons and many more, I'm here 

12 to support EPA's efforts to curb carbon dioxide 

13 emissions from power plants. As a proud 

14 Georgian, I look forward to the day when my state 

15 is no longer home to the two of the top five 

16 carbon-emitting power plants in the country.

17 Thank you for listening to the people 

18 whose livelihoods will be improved by this 

19 important new regulation, and not just the energy 

20 companies.

21 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

22 MR. NICHOLS: My name is Jim Nichols, JOLENDER REPORTING, INC.

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1 i-m N-i-c-h-o-l-s.

2 I am a resident of Stockbridge in Henry 

3 County here in Georgia, and I'm here today to 

4 speak out in support of the new proposed Clean 

5 Power Plan.

6 I'm currently running for Statehouse, but 

7 I wanted to come speak to you not as a 

8 politician, but as someone who comes from a 

9 generation that's seen a pattern of failures of 

10 judgment from government officials and agencies 

11 over my lifetime.

12 As someone born in 1980, depending on 

13 which sociologist you read, I'm either at the 

14 tale end of Generation X, or the start of Y and 

15 the Millennial Generation.

16 From the run-up to the Iraq War to the 

17 run-up of the housing bubble, without fail, 

18 government officials and agencies that had it 

19 within their power to do the right thing and make 

20 the tough decisions to avert major crises and 

21 avert needless devastation have failed to act. 

22 Each time, they have failed to take the 

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1 information they had in front of them and stop 

2 the impending crisis before it was too late. 

3 The climate crisis is very real. As 

4 experts, you have in front of you all the science 

5 you need. As experts, you have in front of you 

6 all the economics you need to do a cost-benefit 

7 analysis and see that failing to shift our energy 

8 consumption and the structure of our energy 

9 markets towards clean, sustainable, eternal 

10 energies will cost us far more by not acting 

11 sooner rather than later.

12 Former Treasury Secretary and current Co13 Chairman of the Foreign Relations, Robert Rubin, 

14 wrote an op-ed recently in the Washington Post, 

15 noting that ignoring climate change could 

16 literally sink the U.S. economy.

17 So I know you have all the information in 

18 front of you to come to the correct policy 

19 decision, but I felt compelled to come speak to 

20 you today to be sure that the truly pivotal 

21 question, the one that led government agencies 

22 and government officials to make the wrong 

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1 decisions in the run-up to the Iraq War and the 

2 run-up of the economic crisis, was answered for 

3 you.

4 I want to tell you with 100 percent 

5 confidence that the political will on the ground 

6 is there to stand with you as you make the right 

7 decisions, no matter how politically unpopular it 

8 may be within some sectors of our economy.

9 The power is in your hand to do the right 

10 thing and take action on climate change. Know 

11 that all across this country there are people 

12 like me, organizing in their communities to stand 

13 with you if you make the right decision.

14 The purpose of government is to protect 

15 and empower its citizens. You have the power to 

16 do the right thing for our climate, for our 

17 economy, and for generations of Americans to 

18 come. Use it, and we will stand with you.

19 Thank you.

20 MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much.

21 Do either one of you have questions?

22 [No audible response.]

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1 MS. BANISTER: Okay. 

2 Thank you both. We appreciate your 

3 comments.

4 [Pause.] 

5 MS. BANISTER: I would like to invite up 

6 Alex Solomon and also Sam Brefogyle, B-r-e-f-o-g7 y-l-e.

8 [Pause.]

9 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you.

10 Alex, would you like to -- first of all, 

11 thank you for coming tonight. And if you would 

12 state your name and spell it for the court 

13 reporter.

14 MR. SOLOMON: Sure. My name is Alex 

15 Solomon. And that's A-l-e-x S-o-l-o-m-o-n.

16 So, good evening. Thank you guys for 

17 being here, as well. I'm from Atlanta, 

18 originally, by way of New Jersey. I work as an 

19 engineer. I'm a Member of the Southeastern 

20 Alliance for Clean Energy. And I'm here today as 

21 a private citizen. I'm speaking in support of 

22 the carbon reduction targets proposed in the 

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1 Clean Power Plan.

2 When I was a little kid, I dreamt that 

3 one day I'd buy a Cadillac Eldorado. Now, for 

4 those who are not familiar, this is an absolutely 

5 massive two-door car, sleek low profile, that 

6 boat-leg gurgling of an American muscle V8, and 

7 four gleaming chrome tailpipes, which to me, as 

8 an eight-year-old boy, signified the ultimate 

9 cool.

10 Now, one might call this a classic 

11 boyhood dream for a reason. We grow up, and we 

12 grow out of these dreams. We get a little older, 

13 and we learn a little bit more. And as it turns 

14 out, the '90s-era Cadillac Eldorado was not a 

15 great car. It was clunky, had the gas mileage of 

16 a mid-sized SUV, was unreliable, and as far as 

17 reputations go, you could often spot a comb-over 

18 hairdo in the driver's seat.

19 [Laughter.]

20 MR. SOLOMON: You see, just like my Caddy 

21 aspirations, we need to reevaluate and redefine 

22 our dreams and ambitions for power generation. 

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1 The fact is we know better now than we used to. 

2 We know that what's coming out of our fossil fuel 

3 stacks is having an adverse effect on our world.

4 We already feel the effects of our 

5 heating earth, our record-setting droughts, our 

6 energized oceans. This was most recently 

7 reconfirmed by the fifth report of the UN's 

8 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 

9 2013.

10 But even with all the data and hard 

11 science on our side, I believe it doesn't take an 

12 advanced degree to feel the effects of climate 

13 change firsthand. You've already heard a lot of 

14 personal stories today, and I think everyone in 

15 this room has a personal tie.

16 Two years ago, in the wake of Super-storm 

17 Sandy, I watched the endless news cycle of my 

18 favorite beach from childhood, Seaside Heights, 

19 New Jersey -- and, yes, that's the same one of 

20 MTV Jersey Shore fame -- literally falling into 

21 the churning ocean, decimated by a storm no one 

22 could have imagined.

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1 With these proposed actions, the Clean 

2 Air Act has a meaningful way to regulate carbon 

3 dioxide for the very first time. If we take 

4 Georgia as an example, though our state has 

5 reduced its coal use in the last few years, 33 

6 percent of our power is still coming from coal, 

7 according to the EIA.

8 Now, enter the Clean Power Plan. Based 

9 on Georgia's renewables and efficiency 

10 possibilities, this plan has taken a real look at 

11 Georgia's immense potential for renewables and 

12 energy efficiency.

13 The Clean Power Plan has given us a goal 

14 for a 44 percent reduction in 2012 emissions by 

15 the year 2030. And this would make Georgia a 

16 standout leader in the Southeast for clean air. 

17 I think that's not only possible, but really 

18 exciting.

19 To me, cutting our emissions and fighting 

20 climate change is about making an informed choice 

21 as we get older, wiser, and we rethink our 

22 dreams. Instead of an Eldorado, nowadays I 

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1 prefer to ride my bike when I can. Instead of 

2 hanging on to antiquated coal plants of the past, 

3 the new, rethought dream for power generation 

4 uses more renewables and improves efficiency.

5 In short, we know what we have to do. We 

6 have the tools to do it. I support the Clean 

7 Power Plan. I support its goal for reducing 

8 carbon emissions. I support this new, adult 

9 dream. It's time for us to grow up.

10 Thank you to the EPA for your work, and 

11 thank you for your time.

12 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

13 Do you have any questions, clarifying 

14 comments?

15 [No audible response.] 

16 MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much for 

17 coming out tonight.

18 Okay. Now, I would like to invite up 

19 Amelia Shenstone and Alan Hancock.

20 [Pause.] 

21 [Inaudible interjection.]

22 MS. BANISTER: Oh, okay. That's fine.

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1 Is Alan here?

2 [No audible response.] 

3 MS. BANISTER: What about F. G. 

4 Beauregard?

5 [No audible response.]

6 [Pause.]

7 MS. BANISTER: Hello. Thank you for 

8 coming out tonight.

9 MS. SHENSTONE: Thank you all for 

10 staying.

11 MS. BANISTER: No problem.

12 Would you state your name and spell it 

13 for the court reporter?

14 MS. SHENSTONE: Certainly.

15 MS. BANISTER: You can -- since we are a 

16 little bit early, you can just take your time and 

17 get your papers together before you get started.

18 MS. SHENSTONE: Thanks.

19 [Pause.] 

20 MS. SHENSTONE: My name is Amelia 

21 Shenstone. That's A-m-e-l-i-a S-h-e-n-s-t-o-n-e.

22 I would like to begin by commending the 

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1 EPA for publishing this draft rule to responsibly 

2 and achievably limit carbon pollution. Keeping 

3 the rule at least as strong as it is now in its 

4 final version is essential to saving people and 

5 places that I hold dear.

6 The first time I heard about the 

7 greenhouse effect and global warming was in my 

8 ninth grade Earth Science class. We learned 

9 about it just as we learned about the hole in the 

10 ozone layer and acid rain. Since America had 

11 joined with the world to tackle these problems, I 

12 assumed that we would do the same for carbon. I 

13 didn't appreciate the vast political challenges 

14 at the time.

15 Yet, the faith I was raised in, Unitarian 

16 Universalism, calls me to be part of making the 

17 world I live in a better place. So I've tried to 

18 do my part, and I've lived in the shadow of 

19 mountaintop removal in West Virginia, working to 

20 bring renewable energy to the coal fields. I've 

21 talked with thousands of coastal Louisianans 

22 about the storm-surge protection they're losing 

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1 as the seas rise and marshes are cut away by oil 

2 and gas companies.

3 Today, I'm an organizer with the Southern 

4 Alliance for Clean Energy, working to reduce our 

5 dependence on coal for electricity; increase 

6 opportunities for smart energy choices like 

7 efficiencies, solar, and wind, mainly in Georgia 

8 and Alabama. And I understand the political 

9 challenges a little better now.

10 I work on clean energy because it's the 

11 intersection of environmental justice and 

12 economic justice -- the creation of wealth that 

13 can benefit everyone.

14 It's essential to the most vulnerable 

15 among us, those who cannot relocate, for example, 

16 as their inland communities become high-rent 

17 beachfront real estate in Miami, or those who 

18 need help to fix up old leaky homes so they're 

19 not air conditioning their back yard and paying 

20 for that, who then suffer even more as heat waves 

21 increase. These are often the people who have 

22 the least say in how energy decisions are made.

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1 I'm here today to urge EPA to not let 

2 utility companies convince you or anyone else 

3 that consumers will necessarily pay more as a 

4 result of the rule to meet carbon emission 

5 limits. If customers pay more, it will likely be 

6 because utilities like Georgia Power and Alabama 

7 Power and their friendly regulators choose to 

8 prioritize profits over cost-saving benefits to 

9 bill-payers.

10 Some utilities like TVA are moving in the 

11 right direction, where others may need stronger 

12 guidance from EPA.

13 I'd like to tell a story about one 

14 utility, Alabama Power, as an example. Between 

15 this year and 2018, Alabama Power will spend over 

16 $1 billion to keep its old coal plants operating, 

17 on top of a couple of billion they've already 

18 spent. The company earns a roughly 13.5 percent 

19 guaranteed profit, about 40 percent higher than 

20 the industry average, around 10 percent profit. 

21 Basically, the more they spend, the more they 

22 make. So it's no wonder that when it comes to 

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1 future energy resources, they choose an expensive 

2 approach.

3 Unfortunately, Alabama does not require a 

4 transparency comparison of the costs of energy 

5 generation choices, so there's virtually no check 

6 on this profit incentive. The lack of balance 

7 between profit and prudence is what really hurts 

8 rate payers.

9 Would rates be lower for Alabama Power 

10 customers if the company followed the lead of 

11 many Southeastern peers and let some coal 

12 capacity go, and invest it instead in cleaner 

13 sources, particularly energy efficiency programs? 

14 I believe the answer is yes.

15 And EPA's own research confirms that 

16 prioritizing energy efficiency and renewables in 

17 efforts to comply with the Clean Power Plan will 

18 in fact lower rates over time. We also know that 

19 energy efficiency lowers bills, and that is a win 

20 for consumers -- no question.

21 The potential to create a comparison 

22 process that fairly values energy efficiency and 

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1 renewables as generation resources is one of the 

2 many potential benefits of this rule. But given 

3 the profit incentive of the status quo, we can 

4 expect utilities to protest and the elected 

5 officials to whom they contribute to remain in 

6 lockstep.

7 So, when you feel pressure to back off, I 

8 hope that you will remember why you chose to work 

9 in environmental protection and stay strong for 

10 the solutions we need to protect our planet and 

11 the people. Help these utilities see the 

12 tremendous power you've given them to use 

13 creative, clean solutions. And give this country 

14 the strong final carbon pollution rule we've 

15 needed since before I was a kid.

16 Thank you.

17 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

18 Any comments, clarifying comments, or 

19 questions?

20 [No audible response.] 

21 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you so much.

22 [Pause.] 

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1 MS. BANISTER: Is Everly Jazi, J-a-z-i, 

2 in the room?

3 [No audible response.] 

4 MS. BANISTER: What about Alan Hancock?

5 [No audible response.] 

6 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Eva Laura or Sam --

7 how would you pronounce this? Brefogyle, yes, B8 r-e-f-o-g-y-l-e. That's it.

9 [No audible response.] 

10 MS. BANISTER: So what we will do right 

11 now is, we will take a break unless there is 

12 someone in the audience that has -- oh, we have 

13 another name? Okay. I'm sorry.

14 Is Mark Woodall in?

15 [Inaudible interjection.]

16 MS. BANISTER: Great. Sorry about that. 

17 Come on up. We look forward to hearing your 

18 comments.

19 [Pause.] 

20 MS. BANISTER: Thank you for coming 

21 tonight.

22 MR. WOODALL: Well, thank you for having 

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1 this hearing in Atlanta.

2 My name is Mark Woodall. That's M-a-r-k 

3 Woodall, W-o-o-d-a-l-l. I'm the Chairman of the 

4 Executive Committee of the Sierra Club here in 

5 Georgia. So, on behalf of our 10,000 members or 

6 so in Georgia, we'd like to thank the EPA for 

7 this historic first-ever proposed carbon rule, a 

8 much-needed step.

9 We do think there are some of the 

10 building blocks that could be improved. We used 

11 to say pretty often that the Southern Company, 

12 including Georgia Power, was the worst utility in 

13 the world when it came to renewables.

14 But the times are changing. As you heard 

15 Commissioner Bubba McDonald mention this morning, 

16 by 2017, Georgia Power will have over -- well, 

17 almost 900 megawatts of solar installed in 

18 Georgia.

19 And that's without distributed 

20 generation, really, being able to take off, 

21 because we don't allow third-party financing in 

22 Georgia, which is the fastest-growing distributed 

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1 generation in places like California. It's 

2 growing faster than any other count of solar 

3 power. So we're doing that with one hand tied 

4 behind our back, basically.

5 And as you also heard the commissioners 

6 mention this morning, over 250 megawatts of wind 

7 is on the way, from the Midwest, approved by the 

8 PSC. And as best I could tell from listening to 

9 the PSC proceedings, solar and wind are putting 

10 downward pressure on rates in Georgia. So that's 

11 certainly good news for the environment and the 

12 economy.

13 Unfortunately, I think it's still 

14 accurate to say the Southern Company, including 

15 Georgia Power, Alabama Power, and Mississippi 

16 Power -- it's still probably the worst utility in 

17 the world when it comes to energy efficiency.

18 I think Chairman Eaton said this morning, 

19 first thing, which seems like a week ago, 

20 actually, that Georgia Power was going to be 

21 spending $5 million over 10 years for demand-side 

22 management. Five million dollars sounds like a 

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1 joke, but I think that's what he said.

2 Of course, right now, over there at 

3 Vogtle 3 and 4, Georgia Power and the other 

4 utilities involved, Vogtle 3 and 4 are spending, 

5 I don't know, $10, $12, $14, $20 billion on two 

6 nukes. I saw analysis from an energy efficiency 

7 guy who looked at what you could do with that 

8 kind of money. I mean, you could weatherize 

9 every house in Georgia.

10 So when utilities claim that they're 

11 concerned about the poor folks, and you look at 

12 what they're doing, I think it would do a lot 

13 more for the poor folks in Georgia to weatherize 

14 houses and push energy efficiency than putting 

15 all that kind of money in the ground over there.

16 One thing that's not commonly known about 

17 the bill that passed in Georgia in 2009, Senate 

18 Bill 31, was nuclear construction work in 

19 progress -- that bill met some initial resistance 

20 from the large industrials, as you might imagine, 

21 who might have to foot the bill.

22 But what happened was the people with 

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1 interruptible rates were pretty well cut out of 

2 the new construction work in progress that's 

3 showing up on every residential customer's bill. 

4 So that's what we're getting right now.

5 We heard several times that we should 

6 leave the State of Georgia alone, and the Federal 

7 Government was getting outside of its authority.

8 And it seems ironic that we should talk 

9 that way or hear that. It was exactly 150 years 

10 ago and one week a few miles to the east of here 

11 when the Battle of Atlanta was fought, with over 

12 9,000 casualties. And that pretty well wound up 

13 states' rights around here.

14 You might recall the City of Atlanta fell 

15 almost two months later, and Abraham Lincoln was 

16 reelected. So I believe the Constitution of the 

17 United States, the Supremacy Clause and the rest 

18 of it, is still there regardless of what happened 

19 before then.

20 So I would look back to what we've heard 

21 about other regulations. They were playing the 

22 greatest clips from past regulations that have 

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1 been put in over the last 30-40 years, like the 

2 acid rain regulations, all the claims that the 

3 sky was going to fall, rates were going to go up 

4 some ridiculous amount, none of which ever came 

5 to pass.

6 So one of the comments from one of those 

7 folks stuck with me. It was the person that was 

8 speaking in favor of the acid rain regulations. 

9 He said, "Anybody that opposes this regulation is 

10 just showing selfish indifference to future 

11 generations."

12 So I would urge the EPA to continue on 

13 with this rule and take a look at some of the 

14 building blocks which really could be a lot 

15 stronger in Georgia, like energy efficiency and 

16 solar and other renewables, and do what we can 

17 for future generations.

18 Thank you.

19 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

20 Any questions or clarifying comments?

21 [No audible response.] 

22 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you so much.

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1 Is Cassandra Webster here?

2 [No audible response.] 

3 MS. BANISTER: And also, is Alan Hancock?

4 [No audible response.]

5 MS. BANISTER: Thank you both for joining 

6 us tonight.

7 Cassandra, you could start and just say 

8 your name and spell it for the court reporter.

9 MS. WEBSTER: Okay. Cassandra Webster. 

10 That's C-a-s-s-a-n-d-r-a Webster, W-e-b-s-t-e-r. 

11 And I may begin?

12 MS. BANISTER: Yes.

13 MS. WEBSTER: Good evening. My name is 

14 Cassandra Webster. A brief introduction: I am a 

15 rare native Atlantan. I went to college up the 

16 street at Emory. After graduating, I taught 

17 English in Seoul, South Korea, for a year before 

18 coming home and serving as an America Vista at a 

19 middle school on the east side of the city.

20 I am now studying for a Master's in 

21 Public Administration at Georgia State University 

22 and working in local government in the metro 

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1 area.

2 Thank you for the opportunity to, in the 

3 words of Leslie Knope, "care loudly" at you.

4 [Laughter.]

5 MS. WEBSTER: Climate change is one of, 

6 if not the biggest social justice issue in the 

7 world right now, and will continue to be in the 

8 indefinite future if we do not make significant 

9 changes at systemic levels. Carbon pollution is 

10 a major cause of climate change and hurts our 

11 health.

12 I am concerned for my health, because I, 

13 like so many of us, breathe air. I am a 

14 privileged person, though, in many ways, and am 

15 lucky to live near no coal-fired power plants. I 

16 don't live in an area of the city with 

17 particularly bad air quality. And I don't have 

18 asthma, though it seems like half of my friends 

19 did when I was a kid.

20 Atlanta isn't even projected to be one of 

21 the places to suffer the more severe consequences 

22 of climate change, though undoubtedly we will all 

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1 experience some issues we are unprepared for. I 

2 don't know if you've heard, but we don't exactly 

3 do well with snow down here.

4 [Laughter.]

5 MS. WEBSTER: Being relatively 

6 privileged, my energy consumption contributes to 

7 the negative effects of carbon pollution 

8 disproportionately experienced by low-income 

9 people, people of color, children, and the 

10 elderly. I would love to change that, for 

11 example, by putting solar panels on my roof. But 

12 at the moment, I live in an apartment and do not 

13 have that option.

14 Georgia Power has the option to invest in 

15 clean energy, though, and they choose not to. 

16 I'm one of many customers who would prefer to 

17 consume energy from renewable sources, but that 

18 company essentially has a monopoly on my 

19 business. And to say that they don't have great 

20 customer service would be a ludicrous 

21 understatement.

22 Southern Company is the third-largest 

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1 corporate air polluter in the United States. 

2 Georgia Power owns the first- and third-largest 

3 carbon polluters in the country. Plant Scherer, 

4 near Macon, Georgia, pollutes 21 million tons 

5 annually, the equivalent of 4.5 million cars. 

6 And in Atlanta, we have plenty of cars polluting 

7 our air as it is.

8 This is the part where you come in. The 

9 Clean Power Plan has the potential to encourage 

10 Georgia Power and similar companies to invest in 

11 clean energy. I support this plan. I wish I 

12 could say I'm excited about it, but really 

13 there's a more accurate description of my 

14 feelings. We should all be embarrassed that we 

15 as a nation have done nothing to significantly 

16 address climate change before now.

17 We need to go further, though. Please 

18 consider strengthening the plan by increasing 

19 carbon pollution reduction. We could reduce 

20 carbon by 40 percent below 2005 levels by 2020. 

21 Many states are already moving quickly towards 

22 this goal, and other states could reach this goal 

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1 if the plan required them to do so.

2 Also, states should meet the new 

3 standards through renewable energy and 

4 efficiencies because this is the fastest, 

5 cleanest, and most cost-effective solution. 

6 States can meet targets without increasing our 

7 use of dirty and dangerous energy sources like 

8 nuclear or natural gas.

9 Finally, please ensure that affected 

10 communities are engaged throughout the process 

11 and that public resources are available to help 

12 workers and communities as they make the 

13 transition to a clean energy economy. I would 

14 love to see the plan strengthened. But speaking 

15 frankly, I appreciate your efforts to do anything 

16 at all to finally begin to cut carbon emissions.

17 Thank you for your time and attention.

18 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

19 Alan?

20 MR. HANCOCK: Good evening. My name is 

21 Alan Hancock. That's A-l-a-n H-a-n-c-o-c-k. I'm 

22 the Program Director at Conservation Voters of 

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1 South Carolina. Thank you for this opportunity 

2 to comment on this important proposal.

3 The mission of Conservation Voters of 

4 South Carolina is to make conservation and 

5 environmental issues a top priority among South 

6 Carolina's elected leaders, political candidates, 

7 and voters. Conservation Voters is the only 

8 nonpartisan, nonprofit, statewide organization 

9 holding elected officials accountable for a safe, 

10 clean, and healthy South Carolina.

11 Conservation Voters of South Carolina 

12 supports EPA's Clean Power Plan. We have an 

13 obligation to our children and future generations 

14 to address climate change. President Obama in 

15 his radio address the Saturday before EPA 

16 released the proposal said, quote, "I refuse to 

17 condemn our children to a planet that's beyond 

18 fixing," unquote.

19 The Clean Power Plan helps to meet this 

20 obligation by limiting carbon pollution from 

21 power plants, which accounts for 40 percent of 

22 the carbon pollution dumped in the atmosphere 

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1 each year. The plants that emit carbon pollution 

2 also emit harmful chemicals like oxides of 

3 nitrogen, sulfur dioxide, and mercury.

4 Limiting the use of coal-fired power 

5 plants will reduce instances of childhood asthma 

6 and other cardiovascular and respiratory 

7 illnesses. Warmer days and nights will 

8 exacerbate air pollution problems by enhancing 

9 the formation of ozone in our cities.

10 South Carolina, and the Southeast more 

11 broadly, will experience climate change in other 

12 ways as well. The National Climate Assessment 

13 released in May of this year detailed these 

14 impacts. The sea level will rise, threatening 

15 the historic City of Charleston and special 

16 places in South Carolina like Hunting Island and 

17 Edisto Beach.

18 Just yesterday, NOAA released a report on 

19 the increase in flooding days since the 1950s. 

20 And Charleston has seen an increase of 409 

21 percent. That comes with a cost, a cost that we 

22 are already paying in South Carolina.

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1 Warm spells in the summer threaten 

2 agriculture and farming as well. In the summer 

3 of 2012, Columbia reached 113 degrees, an all4 time record for all of South Carolina. That kind 

5 of heat damages crops and livestock. With 

6 climate change, we'll see more of that.

7 EPA has recognized its legal obligation 

8 under the Clean Air Act to address carbon 

9 pollution from power plants. We agree the Clean 

10 Air Act compels EPA to act on climate, and we 

11 applaud EPA's unprecedented stakeholder outreach.

12 I attended the listening session here in 

13 Atlanta last October, and EPA's staff from Region 

14 4 and Headquarters have come to South Carolina to 

15 meet with our stakeholders. States, conservation 

16 groups, investor in utilities pressed EPA for a 

17 flexible plan, a plan that would take into 

18 account each state's unique energy mix.

19 And EPA listened to those requests. The 

20 best system of emissions reduction formula takes 

21 into account the energy efficiency and renewable 

22 potential from each state. EPA considered how 

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1 much gas capacity is available. EPA considered 

2 new nuclear development.

3 We can discuss the numbers and the 

4 assumption, particularly on things like nuclear, 

5 as we are in South Carolina. But the overall 

6 approach is sound. In South Carolina, EPA's 

7 early outreach last fall supported the 

8 stakeholder effort that the state environmental 

9 regulator, the Department of Health and 

10 Environmental Control, or DHEC, initiated after 

11 President Obama announced his climate plan last 

12 June.

13 DHEC has involved utility regulators, 

14 electric cooperatives, investor-owned utilities, 

15 the public utility, community groups, and 

16 conservation groups. DHEC's leadership on this 

17 issue has led to productive conversations that 

18 will lead to better policies that considers every 

19 group's input.

20 We appreciate the time that the EPA has 

21 taken to assist our state and all states, except 

22 for maybe Vermont. I think they're exempt on 

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1 this rule. This is the essence of cooperative 

2 federalism, and that is the model on which the 

3 Clean Air Act rests. With states and the EPA 

4 working together, the Clean Power Plan can 

5 succeed.

6 EPA has provided flexibility to states. 

7 But we respectfully ask that EPA continue to 

8 support state regulators in providing technical 

9 guidance on how to implement and analyze the 

10 rule. By carefully considering implementation at 

11 the state level, EPA can ensure the successful 

12 outcomes that the President's climate plan 

13 envisions.

14 State plans will more efficiently meet 

15 EPA's goals than a federal plan imposed on 

16 states. EPA can avoid the need to consider a 

17 federal plan by continuing to spend the time now 

18 on assisting states.

19 South Carolina expects to see a growth in 

20 clean energy jobs, like solar installation, as a 

21 result of the Clean Power Plan. We're excited 

22 about those jobs. They pay well, and they can't 

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1 be outsourced. With these clean energy jobs, 

2 lower power bills from energy efficiency 

3 measures, and the fewer health and environmental 

4 impacts, we expect a positive economic impact 

5 from these protections.

6 Thank you again for the opportunity to 

7 comment on the proposed Clean Power Plan. We at 

8 Conservation Voters of South Carolina support 

9 EPA's broad goals in this proposal, and we look 

10 forward to working with our colleagues in South 

11 Carolina to ensure successful implementation.

12 Thank you.

13 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

14 Do ya'll have any questions?

15 [No audible response.] 

16 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Thank you so much 

17 for coming out tonight.

18 Okay. Everly Jazi, J-a-z-i? There we 

19 go.

20 [Pause.]

21 MS. BANISTER: Thank you for coming out 

22 tonight to share your comments.

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1 MS. JAZI: Thanks.

2 MS. BANISTER: Please state your name and 

3 spell it for the court reporter.

4 MS. JAZI: It's Everly Jazi, E-v-e-r-l-y 

5 J-a-z-i.

6 MS. BANISTER: Okay. You may begin.

7 MS. JAZI: Hi. Starting when I was four 

8 years old, I would sometimes feel out of breath 

9 and start wheezing, my mom panicking and calling 

10 my pediatrician, who had a Mickey Mouse watch 

11 just like me. He didn't give me much advice and 

12 just telling my mom to have me stand in front of 

13 the freezer and breathe the cold air.

14 But one night when I was nine, the 

15 freezer method didn't work. I started wheezing 

16 uncontrollably. My mom drove me to the emergency 

17 room of the Children's Hospital. I never painted 

18 my nails when I was little, but I remember that 

19 day I had sparkly nail polish on, and when the 

20 nurse went to take my oxygen test with the 

21 pulsometer, she had to scratch off the nail 

22 polish to get an accurate reading in my finger.

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1 They put a facemask on me and turned the 

2 machine on. We didn't have cable at my house, so 

3 I was really excited to watch the new SpongeBob 

4 on the hospital TV. The doctors explained that I 

5 had just had an asthma attack and showed my mom 

6 how to use my cool new nebulizer.

7 My pediatrician prescribed many 

8 medications, like singulair or advair. The 

9 medications didn't do that great, because I still 

10 had to be hooked up to the nebulizer when I felt 

11 an attack coming on and sit on the couch watching 

12 one of our seven TV channels while having a mask 

13 over my face.

14 When I was in high school, I read a lot 

15 of articles about cases of asthma and allergies 

16 across the nation. The cities listed with many 

17 cases had a lot of coal nearby. Atlanta 

18 repeatedly made the list.

19 But I think what surprised me the most 

20 was that Dayton, Ohio, where I was born and where 

21 I lived for 10 years, always made the list. To 

22 me, it was such a random city that would be 

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1 picked out. It was so random that it would be 

2 picked out in national articles.

3 I definitely don't have the most severe 

4 case of asthma in the nation. But I haven't had 

5 an asthma attack in over five years, thanks in 

6 part to my inhaler that I carry around 

7 everywhere. But I do think that living in a 

8 state that burns a lot of coal and has a lot of 

9 pollution influenced my life.

10 When thinking about your position on this 

11 issue, I would like to urge you to consider the 

12 over 25 million Americans living with asthma, the 

13 almost 1.9 million asthma attacks that make up 

14 the approximately one-fourth of all emergency 

15 room visits, and the almost $56 billion that the 

16 asthma spends on -- that the United States spends 

17 on asthma annually.

18 I know that you all have or know someone 

19 who has asthma. And I'd like you to think of 

20 them. No one should have to sacrifice their 

21 health for dirty energy. I support the Clean 

22 Power Plan so we can clean up our air and keep 

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1 our children healthy.

2 Thank you.

3 MS. BANISTER: Thank you. Thank you for 

4 coming out tonight.

5 [Pause.] 

6 MS. BANISTER: Okay. I would like to 

7 invite Marianne Garber and Stephen Garber to the 

8 podium.

9 [Pause.] 

10 [Inaudible conversation and laughter.]

11 MS. BANISTER: Take your time. Take your 

12 time.

13 MS. GARBER: Yes, he will introduce 

14 himself as me.

15 [Laughter.]

16 MS. BANISTER: First of all, we'd just 

17 like to say thank you all for coming tonight.

18 MS. GARBER: No. Thank you. Thank you.

19 MS. BANISTER: And for moving us up 

20 earlier. Hey, it's good. It's good.

21 MS. GARBER: Whatever. I know it's been 

22 a long day.

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1 MS. BANISTER: We'll give you a minute to 

2 get your papers together.

3 MS. GARBER: My name is Marianne Daniels 

4 Garber. I'm born and raised in Atlanta. I have 

5 a Ph.D. in Educational Leadership and 

6 Psycholinguistics, and have been in private 

7 practice as an educational consultant at the 

8 Behavioral Institute of Atlanta for the last 30 

9 years or more.

10 I'm not a scientist, an engineer, an 

11 expert on the environment. So I appreciate the 

12 opportunity afforded to citizens like me to speak 

13 to you today.

14 I'm a citizen who has been personally 

15 affected by the drastic swings in climate, 

16 including losing a second home at Orange Beach, 

17 Alabama, to Hurricane Ivan, and watching our 

18 neighbors there who had first homes and 

19 businesses deal with the aftermath of a major oil 

20 spill and the weather devastation from 

21 hurricanes.

22 Three of our children live in the 

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1 Northeast and have been evacuated from their 

2 homes twice because of rising waters from 

3 hurricanes.

4 I'm certain that every generation of 

5 parents and grandparents wishes for their 

6 children and grandchildren to have a better life, 

7 an easier life, or at least a good a life as they 

8 have. I know I do. Yet I fear that we've let 

9 slip away the opportunity to heal or even 

10 maintain the land they will walk on, the seas 

11 that they will fish, and the air that they 

12 breathe.

13 I first became concerned for what we were 

14 doing to the environment in the late '60s when, 

15 as an undergraduate at Washington University in 

16 St. Louis, I was fortunate enough to be a student 

17 of Dr. Barry Commoner, who first sounded the 

18 alert that Lake Erie was dying from pollution 

19 that was being poured into its waters.

20 In February of 1970, Time Magazine's 

21 cover featured Dr. Commoner, and Time labeled him 

22 "the Paul Revere of ecology." He was sounding 

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1 the alarms, calling us to mobilize our efforts to 

2 make peace with the environment and begin making 

3 reparations for what we've done to our home, the 

4 earth.

5 One of Dr. Commoner's lasting legacies is 

6 his four laws of ecology, as written in his book, 

7 The Closing Circle, in 1971. The four laws are:

8 Everything is connected to everything 

9 else. There is one ecosphere for all living 

10 organisms, and what affects one affects all. 

11 Two, everything must go somewhere. 

12 There's no waste in nature, and there is no way 

13 to spend it.

14 Three, nature knows best. Humankind has 

15 fashioned technology to improve upon nature. But 

16 such change in a natural system is, said Dr. 

17 Commoner, "likely to be detrimental to that 

18 system," as we've found.

19 And four, there's no such thing as a free 

20 lunch. Exploitation of nature will inevitably 

21 involve the conversion of resources from useful 

22 to useless.

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1 Like millions of others, I participated 

2 in the first Earth Day that was initiated in 

3 April of 1970. Years later, I coauthored a book 

4 for children on ways they could help heal the 

5 environment.

6 Yet, like many others, I haven't done 

7 enough. My family drives hybrid cars. We have 

8 geothermal heating and solar-powered hot water at 

9 our beach house. We're careful about watering 

10 our lawns. We've invested in energy-efficient 

11 appliances and renewable energy.

12 But as citizens, we haven't done enough. 

13 The United States hasn't done enough. We drove 

14 through Spain, amazed by the hilltops covered 

15 with windmills, wondering why we can't use more 

16 renewable energy. I deplored the gas rigs off 

17 the coast of Fort Morgan in Alabama and wondered 

18 how anyone could allow that.

19 But I didn't say anything or write 

20 anyone. Instead, we just built our beach home in 

21 beautiful St. George Island, the forgotten coast, 

22 praying that our 300-mile-an-hour impact windows, 

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1 our steel pilings that go 50 feet into the 

2 ground, and our poured concrete walls will 

3 withstand any new weather patterns resulting from 

4 global warming.

5 Our son is not so optimistic. He 

6 suggested that we put cleats on the beach house 

7 so that we would be ready when the ocean dries.

8 Global warming is primarily fueled by 

9 carbon pollution. Power plants are the single 

10 largest contributor, source of carbon emissions.

11 I applaud the EPA's new proposed Clean 

12 Power Plan, but I ask you to do even more to curb 

13 our carbon emissions, to encourage investment in 

14 renewable energy and building an energy 

15 infrastructure that is safer for all of us.

16 The EPA must finalize its proposed Clean 

17 Power Plan and push to improve the standards that 

18 will work to heal our environment, and finally 

19 make at least those of us in the United States 

20 step up to our responsibility of citizens of the 

21 world.

22 I implore you to do so, and I thank you 

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1 for allowing me to speak today.

2 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

3 Could you spell your name for the court 

4 reporter just for the record?

5 MS. GARBER: Marianne, M-a-r-i-a-n-n-e, 

6 Daniels, D-a-n-i-e-l-s, Garber, G-a-r-b as in 

7 boy-e-r.

8 MS. BANISTER: Thank you. 

9 Stephen, would you also spell your name?

10 MR. GARBER: It's Stephen, S-t-e-p-h-e-n 

11 Garber, G-a-r-b-e-r.

12 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

13 MR. GARBER: And I'm a psychologist by 

14 training. But more importantly, I'm a father. 

15 And even more importantly, we are grandparents 

16 now. And actually, one of our daughters is here 

17 today, just graduated from college.

18 So, even though I'm not an environmental 

19 scientist, I do believe that warnings that the 

20 scientific community has been giving us about 

21 what's happening in our atmosphere, and even more 

22 important, what's going to happen over this next 

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1 century.

2 It is now clear that global warming is 

3 related to the amount of CO2 that we humans are 

4 pouring into the atmosphere. Administrators, the 

5 EPA, not only in this administration, but from 

6 the times of President Reagan, both President 

7 Bushes, have stated this phenomenon is real and 

8 we need to take steps now to try to reverse this 

9 process.

10 Now, I'll be turning 70 in just a little 

11 while here, okay? And so, why should I care? I 

12 mean, in my lifetime, you know, whether it's --

13 sorry, daughter -- 10 years, 20 years, whatever I 

14 have left, the impact -- there will be things 

15 that will happen.

16 But if I was only concerned about myself 

17 and not the others in the world and the future of 

18 my children, you know, I could probably live with 

19 that. But I am concerned about the terrible 

20 consequences it will have for our children and 

21 our grandchildren.

22 The level of CO2, as I looked it up, was 

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1 below 300 when I was born in 1946. I know it's 

2 now approaching 400. What will this number be in 

3 mid-century when our children who are in their 

4 20s and 30s will be approaching their 70s and 

5 80s? That's a kind of sobering thought, isn't 

6 it, Aubrey?

7 Or even more, our grandchildren, who are 

8 only two years old -- two-year-old twins -- when 

9 they live in the latter part of this century, it 

10 really worries me.

11 Some say we'll come up with other 

12 solutions by then. Others say it may be too late 

13 already to do something to reverse the trend. 

14 But why? Why are we taking this chance with our 

15 children and our grandchildren's future?

16 So, I said I'm not a scientist; I'm a 

17 psychologist. But I do know something about 

18 human behavior. And too often, our behavior is 

19 controlled by immediate rather than long-term 

20 consequences. We see this. Smokers are more 

21 controlled by that instant gratification of the 

22 nicotine, even when they know the long-term 

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1 effects on their health could lead to death.

2 But too many of our citizens are 

3 controlled by the instant gratification of food, 

4 even when they are in the process of developing 

5 diabetes, heart disease, and many other 

6 illnesses.

7 These long-term consequences are not 

8 strong enough to change our immediate behavior. 

9 There's a lot of research on this. This same 

10 process has led us to being addicted to fossil 

11 fuels, even if the long-term consequences for our 

12 children and grandchildren can and will be very, 

13 very disastrous.

14 Now, I understand that oil companies and 

15 power companies are concerned about the cost of 

16 curbing these emissions. We're all concerned 

17 about the cost of what we pay for electricity and 

18 fuel in our cars. But if we allow these 

19 immediate numbers to control our behaviors, 

20 rather than long-term consequences to our 

21 children and our grandchildren, we are going down 

22 the primrose path.

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1 In his book Collapse, Dr. Jared Diamond, 

2 who is the noted evolutionary biologist, 

3 anthropologist, and he has so many other degrees 

4 that it's hard to even quote them, he talked 

5 about the collapse of civilizations over the 

6 history of mankind. And one of the main causes 

7 he talked about was environmental collapse.

8 In his book, he talked about what 

9 happened on Easter Island, where their culture 

10 caused them to lead to deforestation of the 

11 island. And before they knew it, it was 

12 uninhabitable. Now, they were able to survive by 

13 going to other places, to go into other islands. 

14 He warns we're in this same process of doing this 

15 to our entire planet. And we won't have anyplace 

16 safe to go.

17 The astronomer Carl Sagan, back in the 

18 1990s, got NASA to program the Voyager satellite 

19 to turn around and take a look back at earth and 

20 to take a picture of earth as it receded into 

21 darkness. And given what we know today about 

22 global warming, his famous quote about what he 

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1 called "the blue dot oasis" that is our home and, 

2 even more important -- even more important and 

3 chilling.

4 I just want to read this part of his 

5 book. He said -- this is Dr. Sagan, 1994: 

6 "There is perhaps no better demonstration of the 

7 folly of human conceits than this distant image 

8 of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our 

9 responsibility to deal more kindly with one 

10 another, and to preserve and cherish the pale 

11 blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

12 "The Earth is the only world known so far 

13 to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least 

14 in the near future, to which our species could 

15 migrate. Visit, yes, maybe. Settle, not yet. 

16 Like it or not, for the moment . . . is where we 

17 must make our stand."

18 It's time for us to make a stand. I urge 

19 the adoption of the EPA's -- President Obama's 

20 clean Climate Action Plan for the sake, not just 

21 of our children, but really for our 

22 grandchildren.

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1 Thank you for allowing me to speak.

2 MS. BANISTER: Thank you.

3 Who was the author again of the --

4 MR. GARBER: Collapse?

5 MS. BANISTER: Yes.

6 MR. GARBER: Jared Diamond. He wrote 

7 Guns, Germs, and Steel. But his more recent book 

8 was Collapse. And he looked at the collapse of 

9 civilizations for many reasons from the dawn of 

10 human history. Very interesting guy. Looking at 

11 it from all the different aspects.

12 MS. BANISTER: Okay. Great.

13 Thank you both for joining us tonight.

14 MS. GARBER: Thank you.

15 MR. GARBER: Thank you for allowing us to 

16 speak.

17 MS. BANISTER: We appreciate it.

18 [Pause.] 

19 MS. BANISTER: Next, I would like to 

20 invite F. G. Beauregard and Jennifer Bryant.

21 [Pause.]

22 MS. BANISTER: Thank you both for joining 

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1 us tonight.

2 If you could -- F. G., we'll start with 

3 you.

4 MS. BEAUREGARD: Thanks.

5 MS. BANISTER: And if you would spell 

6 your name for the court reporter, and then you 

7 can begin.

8 MS. BEAUREGARD: Sure. It's F period, G 

9 period, B-e-a-u-r-e-g-a-r-d.

10 Thank you first as a mother of a three11 year-old for your efforts to address climate 

12 change. That's a personal thank-you before I --

13 in the not-professional role here.

14 I'm with the National Wildlife 

15 Federation. And these are NWF's technical 

16 recommendations on the Clean Power Plan. I won't 

17 get to talk about the sea turtles, like my 

18 colleague next door. But these are really 

19 important as well.

20 EPA's proposed targets can and should be 

21 strengthened. Our initial analysis indicates 

22 emissions can be reduced beyond those projected 

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1 by EPA and at a reasonable cost. The goal of the 

2 plan should be to reduce emissions 35 to 40 

3 percent below 2005 emissions by 2020.

4 Primarily, the formula used by EPA to 

5 establish the emissions target in each state 

6 needs to be adjusted to reflect that additional 

7 available clean, renewable generation and energy8 efficiency resources would replace generation 

9 from the dirtiest fossil fuel sources and at a 

10 faster pace, yielding greater emissions 

11 reductions than EPA assumed.

12 EPA has rightly recognized that energy 

13 efficiency is the most cost-effective resource to 

14 reduce emissions and that many successful state 

15 programs demonstrate potential for efficiency 

16 across the country.

17 However, more cost-effective efficiency 

18 is available more quickly and at lower cost than 

19 was assumed in the proposal. State programs have 

20 demonstrated the ability to ramp up more quickly 

21 than the proposal would require and to use a 

22 wider variety of efficiency tools than was 

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1 considered.

2 Clean, renewable energy has been growing 

3 at an astonishing rate. In 2012, wind energy and 

4 solar were two of the fastest-growing electric 

5 generation technologies in the United States. 

6 Cumulative installed wind energy capacity 

7 increased by nearly 28 percent, and cumulative 

8 installed solar capacity grew more than 83 

9 percent from the previous year.

10 EPA rightly includes these resources in 

11 setting the state targets. But by setting 

12 assumptions about the availability and quantity 

13 of renewable energy opportunities far too low, we 

14 left substantial, achievable reductions off the 

15 table.

16 EPA should analyze resource availability 

17 and costs on the state and regional basis rather 

18 than limiting the assessment of potential 

19 development to mandated renewables and state 

20 renewable portfolio standard. The agency should 

21 remove any artificial limits on renewable energy 

22 growth and use an annual renewable energy growth 

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1 factor for each state that reflects the 

2 potential.

3 EPA also needs to adjust its analysis to 

4 include the full potential of a wider variety of 

5 renewable resources that are currently excluded 

6 from consideration, such as distributed, solar, 

7 and offshore wind.

8 To the extent that EPA allows states to 

9 include bio-energy in their plans, if it is to 

10 achieve actual emission reductions, it must not 

11 deplete forced carbon storage or rely on tree 

12 growth and carbon sequestration that would occur 

13 long after 2030. In addition, biomass harvesting 

14 must not degrade biodiversity and other 

15 environmental resources.

16 In establishing each state's target, EPA 

17 should fully account for planned and anticipated 

18 fossil fuel plant retirement and the current rate 

19 of change from coal to lower-emitting resources, 

20 including natural gas. In other words, EPA must 

21 ensure that its approach to natural gas as a 

22 lower-emitting source will drive emission 

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1 reductions that would not already have occurred.

2 EPA should also be concerned about life 

3 cycle emissions from natural gas production and 

4 move forward with parallel, additional measures 

5 to ensure methane pollution does not erase the 

6 climate benefits of increased reliance on natural 

7 gas over coal.

8 Our region is a heavy emitter of carbon 

9 pollution. If the South were a country, it would 

10 be the seventh largest emitter of carbon in the 

11 world. It also lags behind the rest of the 

12 country in policies that push renewables and 

13 efficiencies, despite promising opportunities for 

14 both.

15 So there are ample opportunities to 

16 reduce emissions and take advantage of gains 

17 through energy efficiency and renewable energy 

18 generation in a region with comparatively few 

19 requirements for either.

20 Solar and wind power potential is 

21 abundant throughout the Southeast, including 

22 massive potential for offshore wind, a vast, 

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1 untapped resource sitting off the Atlantic Coast 

2 that could replace fossil fuel power and provide 

3 a reliable peak-demand energy resource.

4 Offshore wind exploration and 

5 consideration is already occurring in Virginia 

6 and North Carolina, and its development could be 

7 an effective tool in substantial carbon pollution 

8 reductions and complying with the new rule.

9 Thank you so much for the opportunity to 

10 comment.

11 MS. BANISTER: Thank you. Thank you.

12 Okay, Jennifer, if you'd state your name 

13 and spell it for the court reporter.

14 MS. BRYANT: Yes, ma'am.

15 Jennifer Bryant, J-e-n-n-i-f-e-r B-r-y-a16 n-t.

17 Thank you for allowing me to come and 

18 speak with you this evening. I'm the Member 

19 Services Director at Oconee EMC, located in 

20 middle Georgia, where we serve approximately 

21 8,700 members in seven counties.

22 On behalf of Oconee EMC, I ask the EPA to 

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1 withdraw these proposed rules and start over. 

2 The cost of electricity directly impacts the 

3 quality of life in the seven counties that we 

4 serve at Oconee EMC in the middle Georgia area. 

5 Increased cost of electric will slow economic 

6 growth, reduce job opportunities, and force 

7 families to make tough budget choices.

8 For our most vulnerable members, an 

9 increase in the cost of electricity could force 

10 families to choose between filling up the car 

11 with gas and keeping their lights on. As a 

12 cooperative, all of these increased costs will 

13 have to be borne by our members, many of whom 

14 cannot even afford the tiniest increase in their 

15 weekly expenses.

16 The cost of energy is not the only 

17 concern we have at Oconee EMC. We care deeply 

18 about our environment and the communities in 

19 which we serve. But support for the environment 

20 and a true all-of-the-above energy policy are not 

21 mutually exclusive.

22 Unfortunately, this proposal slams the 

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1 door on an all-of-the-above strategy. With these 

2 rules, the EPA is handpicking winners and losers. 

3 And in the end, the impact of these regulations 

4 will be statistically irrelevant on the issue of 

5 climate change.

6 I urge you to withdraw this proposal and 

7 work with us on a new, more commonsense approach 

8 that will be a true all-of-the-above energy 

9 strategy. 

10 Thank you for this opportunity to speak 

11 with you this evening.

12 MS. BANISTER: Thank you. We appreciate 

13 it.

14 I had one follow-up question for F. G.

15 MS. BEAUREGARD: Um-hm. Sure.

16 MS. BANISTER: You talked about leaving 

17 sustainable -- not sustainable -- leaving a lot 

18 of reductions from renewables off the table --

19 that would just take it off -- can you talk a 

20 little bit more about that?

21 MS. BEAUREGARD: Gosh. And I'll be 

22 honest. The biomass is more my specialty.

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1 MS. BANISTER: Okay. 

2 MS. BEAUREGARD: And a lot of this was 

3 put together by my colleagues.

4 MS. BANISTER: Okay. That's fine. Just 

5 if you can, just submit the comments.

6 MS. BEAUREGARD: I'd love to.

7 MS. BANISTER: That would be really good.

8 MS. BEAUREGARD: Great.

9 MS. BANISTER: Right.

10 MS. BEAUREGARD: Thank you.

11 MS. BANISTER: Thank you. Thank you.

12 Thank you both for coming out tonight.

13 [Pause.]

14 MS. BANISTER: James Gill.

15 [Pause.] 

16 MS. BANISTER: Is there anyone else in 

17 the audience that is scheduled to speak tonight 

18 or would like to speak tonight? If so, if you 

19 could make sure that you go to the registration 

20 desk, and you would have that opportunity.

21 MR. GILL: Hi.

22 MS. BANISTER: Thank you, Mr. Gill, for 

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1 joining us. Would you state your name and as 

2 well as spell it for the court reporter?

3 MR. GILL: Yes, ma'am.

4 My name is James Gill, J-a-m-e-s G-i-l-l.

5 Well, the bad news is that we're all 

6 crammed in here after 7:00 p.m. on a Tuesday 

7 night, and you got to listen to me. The good 

8 news is that I'm well versed in the art of 

9 brevity.

10 [Laughter.]

11 MR. GILL: So I will try to make the most 

12 of this speech.

13 First of all, let me thank you for this 

14 opportunity to speak to you on behalf of the 

15 members of our cooperative and, unfortunately, 

16 express our opposition to the EPA's proposed 

17 rules for existing power plants. As I said 

18 before, my name is Jay Gill, and I'm the Manager 

19 of Communications and Public Relations for 

20 Carroll EMC.

21 Carroll EMC is also a not-for-profit 

22 consumer-owned business that distributes 

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1 electricity to roughly 50,000 residential, 

2 commercial, and industrial accounts here in the 

3 Western Georgia area. Our service area covers 

4 several counties here on the western border with 

5 Alabama, from Polk and Paulding area down to the 

6 edge of Troup and Coweta as well -- kind of a 

7 large territory.

8 As an employee, I'm naturally concerned 

9 about any regulation that is placed on our 

10 industry that doesn't make sense for us. 

11 However, as a member and as a consumer, I'm more 

12 concerned about the effects of this policy 

13 affecting reliability and, possibly, cost 

14 increase.

15 At Carroll EMC, we judge every government 

16 policy against the impact it will have on our 

17 ability to provide our members and our 

18 communities with safe, reliable, and affordable 

19 power. Again, we don't generate electricity. We 

20 only distribute electricity.

21 We ask the EPA to withdraw its proposed 

22 guidance and start over, because the proposal as 

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1 drafted undermines those goals. In fact, I've 

2 yet to hear of any professional in our industry 

3 speak out against the idea of clean air, clean 

4 water, or clean soil.

5 You know, I also have an eight-month-old 

6 daughter and a two-year-old boy. I want the best 

7 for them. I want a clean, good, solid 

8 environment. And we just believe there's a 

9 better way to get there.

10 As professionals, we understand it takes 

11 careful planning and time to phase out older 

12 technology and replace it with newer technology, 

13 especially if newer technology is not quite where 

14 it needs to be to replace the old technology.

15 If you're waiting on a liver transplant, 

16 you don't unplug your life support machine, 

17 hoping the donor organ will get to you more 

18 quickly. And that's kind of the scenario we feel 

19 that we're in right now.

20 But more importantly, there are many 

21 reasons we oppose these regulations. First and 

22 foremost, we believe that Georgia is being 

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1 treated unfairly in these rules. These proposed 

2 regulations ignore the significant progress 

3 Georgia has already made in reducing greenhouse 

4 gas emissions.

5 Georgia has reduced CO2 emissions by 

6 approximately 30 percent between the years 2005 

7 and 2012. That is equivalent to the national 

8 goal the EPA has set for 2030. In other words, 

9 Georgia has already met the EPA's goal.

10 Yet, instead of rewarding this early 

11 action by codifying the State of Georgia's 

12 accomplishment or, at most, seeking a modest 

13 further reduction, these rules instead require 

14 another 44 percent emission reduction by 2030.

15 Under EPA's plan, Georgia will be making 

16 the sixth-largest reduction required of states 

17 nationwide, and so Georgia is being penalized for 

18 taking significant early action. We consider 

19 this as bad policy for our state and unfair 

20 treatment.

21 Again, I believe we all agree on the 

22 ultimate goal, or ideal, of reducing dependency 

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490

1 on fossil fuels. However, there's a much better 

2 way to achieve this goal. 

3 My first suggestion is to retain input 

4 from the engineers and professionals in the power 

5 industry, including cooperatives. You know, a 

6 lot of times we kind of fall low on the totem 

7 pole. But we have a lot of resources and smart 

8 people onboard that can help.

9 On behalf of Carroll EMC, I urge you to 

10 abandon these rules and work with cooperatives to 

11 achieve a more balanced approach that treats 

12 states fairly. And again, I thank you for the 

13 opportunity to speak to you here tonight, and I'm 

14 glad I could wrap it up for you here at the end 

15 of a very long day.

16 [Laughter.]

17 MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much for your 

18 comments.

19 MR. GILL: Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

20 MS. BANISTER: Do you all have any 

21 questions?

22 [No audible response.]

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1 MS. BANISTER: Thank you so much.

2 Is there anyone else in the audience that 

3 would like to have an opportunity to speak?

4 [No audible response.]

5 MS. BANISTER: If not, we're going to 

6 adjourn this room. And if you would like, you 

7 can move to Conference Room A for the conclusion 

8 of tonight's session. 

9 Thank you. Thank you all for coming out. 

10 We truly appreciate you all's input on these 

11 rules.

12 [Whereupon, at 7:39 p.m., the Proposed 

13 Clean Power Plan for Existing Power Plants Public 

14 Hearing was adjourned.] 

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