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25–575 2017

COMMITTEE FUNDING FOR THE 115TH CONGRESS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 

ADMINISTRATION 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

FEBRUARY 15, 2017 

Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration 

( 

Available on the Internet: 

www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/house/administration/index.html 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION 

GREGG HARPER, Mississippi, Chairman 

RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois, Vice Chairman 

BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia 

MARK WALKER, North Carolina 

ADRIAN SMITH, Nebraska 

BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia 

ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania, 

Ranking Member 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland 

(1) 

COMMITTEE FUNDING FOR THE 115TH 

CONGRESS 

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2017 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:46 a.m., in Room 

1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Gregg Harper [Chairman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Harper, Davis, Comstock, Smith, 

Loudermilk, Brady, and Lofgren. 

Staff Present: Sean Moran, Staff Director; Kim Betz, Senior Advisor; Bob Sensenbrenner, General Counsel; Max Engling, Franking Director; George Hadijski, Director of Member Services; Erin 

McCracken, Communications Director; C. Maggie Moore, Legislative Clerk; Dan Jarrell, Staff Assistant; Nick Hawatmeh, Member 

Services Counsel; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; Matt 

Pinkus, Minority Senior Policy Advisor; Khalil Abboud, Minority 

Chief Counsel; Eddie Flaherty, Minority Chief Clerk; Meredith 

Connor, Minority Staff Assistant; and Kim Stevens, Minority Financial Director. 

The CHAIRMAN. I now call to order the Committee on House Administration for the purpose of today’s hearing on Committee 

Funding for the 115th Congress. The hearing record will remain 

open for 5 legislative days so that Members may submit any materials that they wish to be included. A quorum is present, so we may 

proceed. 

It is our Committee’s responsibility to hear from each of the 

standing committees in order to authorize the appropriate amount 

of funding needed for the respective programs and activities, as 

well as any of their foreseeable expenditures for this year and next. 

Today and tomorrow we will hear from each committee’s Chair 

and Ranking Member on their respective biennial funding requests. 

I would like to thank each of them for their work and for taking 

the time to meet and discuss with us their budget priorities. 

As in previous Congresses, testimony will be used to draft an 

overall budget resolution that sets funding levels for each committee. The resolution will ultimately be considered by the full 

House. 

This Committee has worked to find the right balance over the 

years, and our goal is to do so again for this Congress. And as with 

each and every other committee that comes before us, the Committee on House Administration is also tasked with planning and 

2 

prioritizing our budget resources to effectively and efficiently carry 

out the House’s business and to achieve our strategic goals. 

I want to thank Mr. Brady and the staff of this Committee, as 

well as all of our House committees, both Republican and Democrat, who have worked together in a very timely and cooperative 

manner to organize the information to be presented to this Committee. 

I now want to recognize my friend and colleague, Mr. Brady, 

from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. 

Mr. Brady. 

Mr. BRADY. Let me begin by thanking you, Mr. Chairman, for 

having these hearings and for working with us on our own Committee funding. I was pleased to cosponsor the funding resolution 

for this Committee. You gave us our full third, and we have worked 

very well together on our own internal operations. You lead by example, Mr. Chairman, so I appreciate our partnership. 

My focus in these hearings will be on making sure that the minority has access to the funds and people to do our job. In some 

committees that is a traditional one-third, two-thirds split. In other 

committees a variation of that theme. Protecting minority rights is 

the most important part of this process for me, and I look forward 

to hearing from our colleagues over the next 2 days. 

Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Brady. 

Mr. Davis, any opening comments or statements? 

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. Then we will be in recess for just a moment. We 

are now waiting on the Ranking Member for the Committee on 

Natural Resources, so we will begin that just momentarily. 

[Recess.] 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will come to order. And we are 

honored to welcome the Chairman and Ranking Member of the 

Committee on Natural Resources. Would the official reporter please 

enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Natural Resources is 

tasked with oversight of American energy production, mineral 

lands and mining, fisheries and wildlife, public lands, oceans, Native Americans, irrigation, and reclamation. So, welcome to Chairman Bishop and Ranking Member Grijalva. 

The Chair recognizes Chairman Bishop for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ROB BISHOP, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF UTAH 

Mr. BISHOP. I thank you, Committee, for the opportunity of being 

here to do our budget request for the 115th Congress. First, before 

I ask for the request, I want to simply review how we used the 

money that you gave us last year. 

During the 114th Congress, we had 138 oversight and legislative 

hearings, we did 8 field hearings, 14 markups; 118 bills went 

through the Committee, 73 passed the House, and 28 were signed 

into law. That, as far as I am concerned, those bills not only were 

important to our Members, but important to their constituents and 

I think actually helped the American public go along here, despite 

some of the obstacles we had in getting them passed. 

3 

To continue this work in the next Congress, I am requesting a 

2.5 percent budget increase for 2017 and 2018 based on the authorized levels for the 114th Congress. The majority of our budget, as 

I suppose every committee is, is devoted to personnel, and this request is helping us to retain and attract professional and knowledgeable staff to assist in the areas that are extremely diverse, as 

you mentioned at the very beginning. And one of the things that 

surprised me as I took over the Chairmanship is simply how wide 

our net of our Committee actually goes. 

We also are already experiencing some movement of our staff positions within the new administration. I certainly hope the administration doesn’t rob from our staff to house and to staff their Agriculture and Interior Committees, but they would be stupid if they 

didn’t. So I need that, we need that flexibility coming in there. 

I also want you to realize that more than half of our Committee 

Members, including the newly elected Members, are from the Western States, which means our travel expenses will always be increased, especially as we decide to try and broaden our interests 

and have field hearings. 

By definition, field hearings bring lawmakers closer to the people 

and the issues that are being heard. So during the 114th Congress, 

for example, we had field hearings in New Mexico, Maine, Colorado, Florida, Utah, Nevada, Louisiana, Long Island, New York, 

and that is just a few of the locations we went to. These hearings 

are important for transparency, to maximize the public’s awareness, and to maximize legislative awareness of the situations that 

are going on. 

So during my first term as Chairman our budget increases reflected funds dedicated primarily to Members and to their staff 

travel. We think we were economical in the use of our resources to 

support an increased presence throughout the United States, and 

we expect to have once again, with our diversity of issues, as well 

as the geography from where our Members live, have greater expectations than we did in the 114th session. 

At the end of the last Congress, the Committee initiated a reorganization of its information technology strategy. This included the 

hiring of an entirely new IT staff who are focused on modernizing 

Committee software, House-supported storage options, cloud services, and ensuring the security and accessibility of Committee data. 

Today’s budget request will ensure these issues are appropriately 

addressed this Congress to maintain and improve operations and 

equipment necessary to handle the Committee’s frequent hearings, 

publications, and other needs. And I really wish I knew what the 

hell I said in those last few paragraphs, but we are working on it. 

We have had and implemented efficiencies. Our hearings are now 

almost paperless. If I can get all my Members to file their amendments on time—hint, hint—we will be totally paperless in what we 

are doing. We have successfully negotiated subscription renewal 

rates that are lower than offered costs. And we have even moved 

from bottled water to filtered water in the office, something of 

which I am not very happy, but we have done that. 

So in sum, the Committee has made a concerted effort to use our 

budget conservatively while maintaining a well-organized operation. We want to maintain that in the future. And I thank you for 

4 

your time and look forward to—well, it says I look forward to answering your questions. If you don’t have any, I will look forward 

to it. 

[The statement of Mr. Bishop follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. We appreciate the effort. Thank you for that impression that you did, Chairman Bishop. 

I will now recognize Ranking Member Grijalva for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. RAU ́ L M. GRIJALVA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA 

Mr. GRIJALVA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman Harper and 

Ranking Member Brady, thank you, Members of the Committee. I 

am pleased to join with Chairman Bishop today to ask for your 

support for the Natural Resources budget request for the 115th 

Congress. 

While Chairman Bishop and I have on occasion had some vigorous debates in the Natural Resources Committee, I agree wholeheartedly with his presentation of the budget facts and the value 

that a fully funded committee can provide the House and, for that 

matter, the American people. 

I fully support the Chairman’s stated request of a 2.5 budget increase each year, for a total of 5 percent for the entire duration of 

the 115th. I think it will keep our staff capacity that we have now. 

Although I am not confronted with the same problem that Chairman Bishop is, the administration is not coming readily soliciting 

any of our staff on this side of the aisle to go work for them, so 

I predict that we will have very stable personnel on our side of the 

aisle. 

Nevertheless, I think travel is an important issue, particularly 

out West. The Members that have joined on our side are also almost entirely Westerners. And the need for field hearings and the 

need to be able to, particularly in the West, visit the sites, the locations, and the areas in which there is both opportunity and conflict 

and deal directly with people there, I think requires a more robust 

travel budget than we have presently. And I think the Chairman 

addressed that in his comments. 

With that, let me concur with the Chairman’s comments and prepare to answer any questions the Committee might have. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

[The statement of Mr. Grijalva follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ranking Member Grijalva. I appreciate the presentation from both of you. And I will now recognize 

myself for 5 minutes for any questions. 

As you look at your budget request, Chairman Bishop, what are 

you anticipating to be different in the 115th than it was in the 

114th as we look at this? 

Mr. BISHOP. Not a whole lot of difference in what we are trying 

to do, it is just the scope of what we are attempting to do is going 

to be different. As we mentioned, or as you all mentioned, we have 

a huge—in fact it is surprising the number of areas that we have 

to go through. Our committee deals with everything from Puerto 

Rico to Saipan, and it deals with a third of the land mass of the 

United States. I wish we didn’t do a third of the land mass, but 

we do. We deal with water issues, we deal with Native American 

issues, we deal with insular issues. We have to deal with energy 

issues. And all those come into play, and I have probably forgotten 

something along the way here. 

It also means that when we do our field hearings, which I think 

are extremely important to make sure that we are transparent and 

make sure that people have a chance to be heard, as well as getting that input from people, we have, I think, excessive travel 

needs that some other committees simply don’t have, at the same 

time. And especially, as we said, most of our Members actually are 

from the West, which means their travel expenses will be more just 

from the get-go. 

So it is our effort to try and expand that. As I said, the expansion 

we did last year was basically in doing more hearings and doing 

travel. What I am looking for the bulk of the money that would be 

increased here today is to maintain that effort to get out in the 

country and let people see what we are doing and let us learn from 

those people, and also to maintain our staff. 

I think we have a funding level of about 69. We are close to that, 

if not. But once again, it presents the problem because we have 

such a wide, varied area of topics that we discuss. I need to have 

professional staff that understand that. It is not easy to shift somebody from committee A to committee B because the topics are totally different. So having staff that actually knows what is going 

on is extremely important, and that is where the bulk of the money 

goes. 

So I think those are the two areas in which we are looking at 

expansion, both in the ability of getting out to do the hearings, as 

well as to maintain a staff, which I think will be in some kind of 

flux. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Brady, for 5 minutes for questions. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, I only have one question to the Ranking Member. 

I want to know, I have to be on record that you are okay with 

the financial situation and you have the finances that you need to 

do your job and your Committee to do its job. 

Mr. GRIJALVA. As the financial breakdown has been the past custom and practice in this Committee, I think that that division is 

fine. We have lived with it, we have worked with it. An opportunity 

11 

to do more. I think this Committee will face and will be challenged 

by what is happening on the administrative level regarding energy 

production, what is happening regarding public land. 

And as such, the request for additional support I think is appropriate insofar as while we might have, the Chairman and I might 

have different oversight goals and a different perspective to some 

of the issues we confront. For the minority to be fully staffed to 

carry out our agenda is important, and the breakdown presented 

by the Chairman meets the need as it is currently. And an increase 

would be tremendous, but at this point the 5 percent over 2 years 

would keep us going. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Brady. 

I will now recognize Mr. Davis, the Vice Chairman of the Committee, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to grant Chairman Bishop’s wish, no questions. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

I now recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Lofgren. No 

questions. 

I assume that we are fine with the two-thirds, one-third, that 

both of you are comfortable with that continuing? 

Mr. BISHOP. Yeah. 

The CHAIRMAN. With that, we thank you very much for being 

here. Thanks for the work that the Committee does. We will look 

forward to reviewing this request. Thank you. 

[Recess.] 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Walden 

and Ranking Member Pallone of the House Committee on Energy 

and Commerce. Will the official reporter please enter a page break 

into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

12 

The House Committee on Energy and Commerce is tasked with 

oversight of digital commerce, consumer protection, technology, energy, environment, and public health policy, and many other subsets of those. 

Chairman Walden and Ranking Member Pallone, welcome. And 

the Chairman now recognizes Chairman Walden for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. GREG WALDEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OREGON 

Mr. WALDEN. Well, Mr. Chairman, it is a delight to be before you 

and Mr. Brady and other Members of your Committee today. We 

come here thankful for the opportunity to make our case and look 

forward to any questions you may have. 

I am grateful for this opportunity to testify before you today on 

the Energy and Commerce Committee’s budget request for the 

115th Congress. My Committee has previously provided you with 

a formal request, so my testimony will be brief. 

Let me begin by expressing our deep appreciation for the resources that you provided to upgrade our primary Committee room 

in the last Congress. 2123 Rayburn is back in action and the hightech upgrades are being put to good to use. We don’t have electrical 

wires that are frayed or audio systems that don’t work. So thank 

you for all of that. 

Every committee has felt the pinch of budget cuts these last 10 

years. Our total allocation is over $4 million down from what it 

was in 2009, $4 million less than what we were spending in 2009 

through 2016, and that is in static funds, not taking into account 

higher costs across the board due to a decade of inflation. 

With an eye toward fiscal responsibility, but fully acknowledging 

the significant work ahead of us in the 115th Congress, Ranking 

Member Pallone and I developed a budget that we believe is a realistic assessment of our coming needs. We request a 5 percent increase over what we were allocated last Congress to add a limited 

number of key staff positions. All of these additional funds would 

go towards staffing needs. 

To be most effective we need to continue to attract and retain experienced staff. First year associates at K Street law firms receive 

salaries of at least $160,000 a year, Mr. Chairman, as you probably 

know. Most, if not all the business before the Committee on Energy 

and Commerce requires the expertise of individuals with experience in their fields—telecommunications and technology policy, energy and environmental law, health care, and rigorous oversight 

and investigations ability. If lawyers just out of law school are getting $160,000 a year, you can imagine what experienced professional staff and counsels can earn. 

That is the competition in the marketplace that we face, Mr. 

Chairman. While our goal should not be to match K Street salaries, 

this is public service, we must acknowledge the realities of the 

market and adjust our compensation structure accordingly to attract and retain those interested in public service. 

Beyond staffing needs, we also need help to effectively address 

some of the most complex and far-reaching issues before Congress 

in the coming months. A few thoughts on our agenda, if you would. 

13 

While Energy and Commerce is always busy, last Congress we 

held 185 hearings and we held 47 markups. We expect this Congress to be even more demanding. Regardless of who is in charge, 

our Committee’s responsibility on healthcare issues requires an increased investment of Member and staff time and resources. The 

E&C Committee has an aggressive and legislative schedule that includes acting soon to reauthorize the expiring FDA user fee programs, there are three of those, reauthorize the Children’s Health 

Insurance Program, and reauthorize the country’s community 

health centers, and oversee implementation of 21st Century Cures. 

There is no doubt that health care will be a key policy issue for 

us. 

Other issues on the agenda in which we intend to invest significant time and resources include the following. 

Energy environmental infrastructure. We intend to answer the 

President’s call to address the infrastructure crisis by moving bipartisan legislation through our Committee. We will look at all 

areas of infrastructure in energy, including nuclear, pipelines, and 

modernizing the grid. Our goal is to put the consumer first, create 

jobs, and invest in America’s infrastructure and innovation. 

Cybersecurity, we all know the threat there. Privacy, encryption, 

data breach are all high profile areas for this Congress and this 

Committee within our technology jurisdiction. Working with stakeholders, the Committee intends to examine and address the threats 

and opportunities present in each of these areas. 

When it comes to communications law, for the first time in decades the Committee intends to move telecommunications reauthorization bills. The modern world needs modern regulatory structures. We intend to reauthorize the communications agencies, some 

of which have not been reauthorized since the 1990s. 

As my predecessors from past Congresses have testified before 

you, there will be areas where Frank and I agree and areas where 

we may disagree on policy. But to properly serve the American people, we agree that we need additional, but modest increases in our 

Committee resources. 

Again, I thank the Committee for the opportunity to come before 

you and testify and make our case. And of course I would be more 

than happy to answer any questions that you all might have. 

And with that, I yield back the balance of my time. 

[The statement of Mr. Walden follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. 

The Chair would now recognize Ranking Member Pallone for 5 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. FRANK PALLONE, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY 

Mr. PALLONE. Thank you, Chairman Harper and Ranking Member Brady, for the opportunity to testify before you in support of 

our Committee’s budget request. And I want to thank Chairman 

Walden and his staff for working with me and my staff in putting 

our proposal together. As Chairman Walden said, we may disagree 

on policy, but we certainly agree on this proposal that is before us 

today. 

I am going to try not to be repetitive of what my Chairman said, 

but coming out of the 2016 general elections and off the first 26 

days of the Trump administration, it is really easy to foresee how 

extremely busy our Committee has been and will be if we are really 

going to engage and conclude on a very robust legislative and oversight agenda. 

For starters, our majority has indicated our Committee obviously 

is looking at—is a primary actor in the debate surrounding the Affordable Care Act, and the 5 percent funding increase is necessary 

to ensure that Americans will continue to have affordable 

healthcare coverage. To finish the complex task, it is going to take 

a lot of skilled Committee staff, as well as new hires, to work with 

regard to this whole issue of the Affordable Care Act and its future. 

A funding increase will also greatly assist our Committee in reauthorizing vital FDA programs, like the user fees that are coming 

up for reauthorization, the Children’s Health Insurance which 

comes up, CHIP, in September, and all the telecommunication 

issues that Chairman Walden mentioned, as well as energy and environmental priorities. 

I think it is a modest funding increase that we have asked for. 

Many of our staff, as the Chairman mentioned, have considerable 

specialized healthcare, telecommunication, and technology expertise, but it is very easy for them, as you can imagine, to command 

salaries that are double or triple what our Committee will be able 

to pay them. I mean, it is already happening and I think it is going 

to accelerate that we are going to see K Street and the lobbying 

industry going after our staff, and some of them will probably end 

up leaving because of the salary that they can command. 

So of the total budget, 95 percent of our budget is allocated to 

hire, pay, and support our staff. So we are really just talking about 

staff here, Mr. Chairman. 

Again, I don’t want to repeat a lot of the statements that Chairman Walden has made, but I really think that this is a relative 

modest increase given what we face. I mean, in the last few weeks 

we have had many days when we have had two or three hearings, 

we have had markups. And so this is just an indication of what is 

to come for the rest of the 2-year session. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Pallone follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ranking Member Pallone. 

I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions. 

But having the privilege of serving on this Committee, you know, 

I have better knowledge of the inner workings than I will over 

some of the committees that may come before us today and tomorrow, and the work is very important. This Committee touches so 

many different areas of jurisdiction, and it is important to our 

country, and I appreciate the work that both of you are doing. 

I assume that we are good with the two-thirds, one-third, Mr. 

Chairman? 

Mr. WALDEN. Yes, Mr. Chairman, we are. We have, I think, always had that in place. We certainly have it in place now and intend to going forward. 

The CHAIRMAN. It appears that much of what this increase would 

go towards is really towards staff retention as much as anything. 

Is it more for filling open positions or more for retention? 

Mr. WALDEN. It is a bit of both because we do think we need 

some additional resources. It is within our cap of total FTE. We are 

not fully up to that level. But we need some additional resources 

to deal with the complexity and volume of issues we will be working on. So it probably would be a couple of additional staff, but also 

this retention thing is real, as you know, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. And as far as any field hearings anticipated by 

the Committee at this point? 

Mr. WALDEN. We have been somewhat limited on our ability because we, frankly, kept the money more in terms of the staff. But 

we would like to be able to get out. We think that is important to 

do, to get out across the country and hear from Americans where 

they live, as opposed to the select few that can come back and testify. 

The CHAIRMAN. Sure. 

Mr. WALDEN. We also, Mr. Chairman, would like to thank this 

Committee for its work to get us into the 21st century digital age 

so we have the new technology now where we can use telecommunications to reach out and hear from people and we will. 

But there is nothing like being there in person, as you know. 

The CHAIRMAN. But we have the technology now to do at least 

virtual field hearings? 

Mr. WALDEN. That is true, and we will do that. 

The CHAIRMAN. All right. That is great. I thank both of you. 

And I will now recognize Ranking Member Brady for 5 minutes 

of questions. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Just to thank the Chairman and Ranking Member for being 

here. And you already asked the question that I would ask of our 

Ranking Member, he is satisfied with the one-third, two-thirds. 

You are getting what you need to get and we appreciate that. We 

appreciate the cooperation. 

Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

I now recognize the Vice Chairman of the Committee, Mr. Davis, 

for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

24 

I am sorry I walked in late and missed both of your opening 

statements. I am sure fantasy sports were addressed, Mr. Pallone, 

so I apologize if I did miss that and your eloquence. 

And, Mr. Walden, great conversation this morning about this 

hearing today, and I really appreciate your comments. 

I want to know, though, do you have the resources to fulfill your 

oversight responsibilities adequately in this budget request? 

Mr. WALDEN. In the budget request, you would always like to 

have more, especially when it comes to oversight. Our Committee 

has a wonderful bipartisan tradition of doing oversight hearings, 

whether it was going after the Peanut Corporation of America 

when they poisoned people with salmonella, leaving eight dead, to 

the Enron hearings, to you name it. 

And I think it is important, regardless of who is in the White 

House, to continue to do aggressive oversight over programs and 

policies of this government. We are a separate and equal branch, 

and it is our intent to look at programs and policies and things 

that haven’t been reauthorized in a long time, root out waste, 

fraud, and abuse wherever it is. That is part of our mission. 

And so, frankly, we don’t have the oversight staff we used to 

have and certainly Mr. Dingell had when he was all-powerful 

Chairman of this Energy and Commerce Committee. We have a 

very talented staff. But we came knowing fiscal constraints of the 

Federal budget. We come to you with this 5 percent increase in our 

authorization for our appropriation. 

Mr. DAVIS. I just had one more question. As you put this budget 

request together, was there anything that you would like to do 

more on your Committee that your budget request does not allow 

you to do? 

Mr. WALDEN. Well, frankly, I think we can always do more on 

the oversight side of things. I was the Ranking Member of the 

Oversight Subcommittee. I know the value of its work to inform 

our policy efforts. That would be good. 

We recognize the importance and complexity and controversial 

nature of our work on healthcare reform, and so we do need to staff 

up there a bit more. 

And we are very excited, frankly, about figuring out how to create jobs through infrastructure expansion, and so in our energy 

and telecom world. Both of those can play key roles not only in producing jobs, but also making sure we break through unnecessary 

barriers. 

So I mean, if we had more staff, we could do more work, certain 

to that, and we will do a lot of work. But again, we didn’t want 

to over ask, frankly, but this would certainly help us. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you. 

Mr. PALLONE. Can I ask the Vice Chair, I should mention that 

we didn’t bring up the fact that we have jurisdiction over gaming, 

but you opened the door. And it is true, I mean, there really is a 

need for more oversight and more attention the gaming industry, 

whether it is fantasy sports, internet gaming, or whatever. So if 

you give us more money, then we can do some more oversight into 

that as well. 

Mr. WALDEN. And we promise not to go gamble with it. 

Mr. PALLONE. Yes, we won’t go to Las Vegas. 

25 

Mr. DAVIS. The Ranking Member and I have a longstanding joke 

between each other about fantasy sports. So it is always good to 

have good humor in this hearing. 

So thank you both very much. 

I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Davis. 

And I will now recognize Mr. Brady for a follow-up. 

Mr. BRADY. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. I would be remiss if I 

didn’t thank Chairman Walden, because of him, through the transition years ago, and I appreciate him coming and having a conversation with me, we were able to have hearings not interrupted, before 

12 o’clock. And I don’t forget that and I appreciate that. Thank you, 

sir. Thank you. 

Mr. WALDEN. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. And also, as a final comment I want to just 

thank your Committee for its emphasis on cybersecurity issues. I 

think that is certainly something that deserves that emphasis now 

and certainly in this year and years to come. Thank you for your 

hard work and thank you for your time today. 

Mr. WALDEN. Thank you very much, gentlemen, we appreciate it. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Royce 

and Ranking Member Engel of the House Committee on Foreign 

Affairs. Would the official reporter please enter a page break into 

the hearing record to begin a new section. 

26 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Foreign Affairs is 

tasked with oversight over the Department of State, USAID, the 

Peace Corps, and the United Nations. It has been tasked with considering legislation regarding the diplomatic community and disarmament issues. So today we welcome Chairman Royce and Ranking Member Engel. And the Chair recognizes Chairman Royce for 

5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. EDWARD R. ROYCE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Mr. ROYCE. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you know, the 

legislation, the sanctions legislation that we have passed on Russia, on North Korea, on Burma, and on Sudan, that has come out 

of the work of the Committee which I Chair and which Mr. Engel 

is the Ranking Member of. And we appreciate the chance here to 

tell you about the Foreign Affairs Committee work, Chairman Harper and Ranking Member Brady, because we feel that this has become vital, especially in light of events that are unfolding. 

We also know that we are very productive when we are working 

together. And I think it is very fair to say that we have been very 

productive. This last session we had 24 bills become law, Democrat, 

Republican Members on the Committee, Members off the Committee. 

But looking ahead, there are some areas here that we have to 

tackle now, and one of them is reauthorizing the departments and 

agencies under our jurisdiction, which you just mentioned. The 

State Department needs to be reorganized and reauthorized, and so 

does USAID, and so does international broadcasting, and we need 

to get that up and running now. 

And to do that, we need staff to do it. And in point of fact, we 

have cut the budget of this Committee some 25 percent and then 

upped it up a percentage point a couple of years ago. 

But the reality is that for our slots we have many, many positions that are not filled. And nearly all of the funding authorities 

within our jurisdiction need to be reauthorized. And we now have 

an attitude in the Senate where they want to work with us to get 

that done. And so if we don’t get it done, it is bad for the Committee, it is bad for Congress, it is bad for the departments, and 

bad for our interests abroad. And I think all of the Members here 

understand the consequences of that. 

Many times we have been in a position here this last year where 

we have made progress. We got a mini-State bill signed into law. 

We have authorized and reformed the food aid program. We have 

abolished a dysfunctional Broadcasting Board of Governors, but we 

are moving forward with what we replaced that with in terms of 

the BBG, and we need to in terms of our broadcasting into Eastern 

Europe, into Russia, into China. 

And we do all of this in a bipartisan way with Mr. Engel’s support. And now, with a Senate, and we have teed this up so that 

we think the administration or the new Secretary of State will be 

in support of these efforts, I think we can do a great job here. And 

that is our goal, because the world is a mess. And, frankly, it is 

going to take more manpower and woman power to do this. It is 

going to take filling some of those slots that have been held vacant. 

27 

Our budget is a million dollars less per year than it was in 2012. 

So it means we have, for example, if you can imagine this, we have 

one staffer who has in-depth sanctions experience, and he is the 

staff member that we work with to have passed the bills that we 

have passed on Iran, on North Korea, on Russia, on Burma, on 

Syria, on Venezuela, on Cuba, and on Sudan. And he also is the 

individual that we work with to provide the Armed Services Committee in passing its huge NDAA. As you know, we have a major 

role in that. So we process dozens and dozens of provisions for that 

bill. And we also have the same staff member covering Israel and 

the Palestinian situation. 

Now, I could go on in other areas and share the same challenges 

that we face, but I will save you that. What I will say is that we 

have great people, many who haven’t had a raise in 4 years, people 

who have left in part because of the circumstance of the workload, 

and we are less effective, frankly, than we could be. 

And for these reasons I respectfully request that our current 

budget be increased 7 percent in the 115th Congress, and this increase would be used to fill three of my seven vacant positions and 

Mr. Engel would make his decisions. And, Chairman, Ranking 

Members, we do face grave national security challenges, including 

right now Iran, North Korea, and Russia, and we will continue to 

focus relentlessly on these threats. But we were also trying to advance our economic, humanitarian, and so many other interests 

abroad, and we need the capacity to do that. 

So I thank you very much for considering our request. I don’t 

make this request lightly, but out of a sense of responsibility and 

optimism about what the two of us together, with our 45 Committee Colleagues, can accomplish. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Royce follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And the Chair will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. 

Engel, for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ELIOT L. ENGEL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK 

Mr. ENGEL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Harper, Ranking Member Brady, Members of the Committee, thank you for inviting both of us to testify today. 

I would like to, first of all, add my voice to everything that 

Chairman Royce has just said. I have always believed that foreign 

policy should be as bipartisan as possible, that partisanship should 

top at the water’s edge. And over the past 4 years, Chairman Royce 

and I have established a very productive and close working relationship. We have worked together with Members on both sides of 

the aisle, at a consistently fast tempo, to address an unprecedented 

number of foreign policy challenges and crises around the world. 

Our staffs, our respective staffs work together. 

That is the kind of atmosphere we have on the Foreign Affairs 

Committee. Ed and I would like to say that we believe that we are 

the most bipartisan Committee in Congress. And foreign policy 

needs to be bipartisan. So we do share our staffs to some degree. 

I can pick up a phone and call any one of Ed’s staff people, and 

he can pick up the phone and do the same with mine. And that 

has enabled us to do a lot of things with a minimal amount of 

money. 

We have been very productive in the 114th Congress. The Committee passed 24 bills that were signed into law on issues ranging 

from food security, to human trafficking, to promoting good relations with the nations of the Caribbean. We passed the State Department authorities bill, which we hadn’t for a long, long time, 

and it included critical provisions on embassy security. And we 

held hearings on a wide range of critical issues, including the fight 

against ISIS, Russian aggression in Ukraine, Iran’s nuclear weapons program, North Korea’s development of weapons of mass destruction, and many others. And even in this time of great political 

polarization, I think we and our staffs can continue to get a lot 

done for the good of the country and the world. 

But given the massive challenges we face around the globe, our 

ability to keep pace with international threats and opportunities 

has been hampered by significant cuts to the Committee budget. In 

2013 alone, our budget was reduced by almost 12 percent, the highest percentage cut sustained by any committee. We think the Foreign Affairs Committee should be increased, not cut back, given all 

the problems we have in the world. 

And in the 2 years before that, before the 12 percent cut, we 

were cut by 5 percent and 6 percent. In 2014 we were pleased to 

get a 1 percent increase, but that still leaves us well below where 

I think we need to be. And Ed and I, we have wonderful staffs. 

They try to do their best. But, you know, when you don’t give people raises they leave, you lose the best people. And it is really not 

fair and not conducive to us doing what we need to do in such an 

important realm, foreign affairs. 

31 

So these cumulative cuts have made it more difficult to hire and 

retain experienced Committee staff to help us navigate the many 

complex national security challenges that confront our Nation. It 

has also complicated the efforts of the Committee to conduct effective oversight of the State Department, which is what we should 

be doing, oversight of USAID and other agencies under our jurisdiction, and to craft legislation authorizing these institutions. 

So I strongly support Ed’s, the Chairman’s request for a 7 percent increase in the Committee budget. In this time of great change 

both at home and abroad, this would begin the process of rebuilding the capacity of the Committee to more effectively meet our responsibilities. 

So I thank you again for inviting me to testify, and I look forward to answering any questions you might have. 

[The statement of Mr. Engel follows:] 

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35 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ranking Member Engel. 

Thanks to both of you. It is such an important Committee and 

the work that you have to do is a great responsibility. So I am 

going to now recognize Mr. Brady for any questions he may have. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Just to the Ranking Member, I heard your testimony and I would 

assume that the funding is one-third, two-thirds, and you are both 

in agreement with that. 

Mr. ROYCE. Yes, Mr. Brady. 

Mr. BRADY. And one other thing. I hate to disagree with my dear 

friend, the Ranking Member, but I believe that me and the Chairman here would not agree with you with the fact that we have the 

best nonpartisan Committee. 

Mr. ENGEL. Well, if you will give us an increase, we don’t mind 

being a close second. 

Mr. ROYCE. You can tell we have diplomats on this Committee, 

including the Ranking Member. 

The CHAIRMAN. Now we will recognize the Vice Chairman of the 

Committee, Mr. Davis, for questions for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member. 

You know, reauthorization of programs has been a major issue 

for the organizational task force that I serve on outside of this 

Committee. I know it was brought up, but can you specifically address what is the likelihood of reauthorizing the State Department—— 

Mr. ROYCE. Highly likely. 

Mr. DAVIS. Highly? 

Mr. ROYCE. Because of the attitudes now of our counterparts in 

the Senate. They would like to go forward and precisely that. And 

I think there is broad-based bipartisan support in the House and 

the Senate for us to do this reorganization and do it now. 

But to do it, we have got to have some additional staff to handle 

it, to say nothing of the fact that, as I explained, we also need personnel with some sanctions expertise here besides the one individual we have. And we are going to have to have that authorizing 

expertise for the State Department and USAID. I think we all 

agree we want to do that as well. 

And in terms of our counterterrorism, Middle East issues, ISIS, 

again, we need the personnel, we need personnel. And so we don’t 

need a lot of bodies, but we need some. And that is why this increase after this experience of having a 24 percent reduction. We 

have got to ramp up enough to get this reauthorization through 

and handle these other issues. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. We now recognize Ms. Comstock for any questions she may have. 

Mr. Loudermilk, any questions that you may have. 

Okay. I want to thank you both for coming. We recognize the 

need and we have a constitutional responsibility to make sure that 

the legislative branch is indeed a coequal branch of government. 

And we want to make sure you have got the resources to your job, 

so we will look at this request. 

Mr. ROYCE. Well, I thank you for that note, Chairman Harper, 

and I thank Ranking Member Brady. I think that is exactly right. 

36 

We have got to be a coequal arm of government. And I thank you, 

Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

Mr. ENGEL. I thank you also, Mr. Chairman. You know, I was 

thinking of ad libbing exactly what you said. I think all of us feel 

so strongly that a lot of through the years—I have been here now 

28 years, and we have seen the eroding of legislative branch power. 

In large portion it is because of cuts and things like that. But the 

State Department, I mean, they need to be monitored. We need to 

play a very important role in that and everything else as well. 

So I thank you and Mr. Brady. We really appreciate it. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. And on a personal note Mr. Engel, 

as the only Member who has a child with fragile X syndrome, I 

want to thank you for your work as being the Co-Chair of the Fragile X Caucus. Thank you for that, it means a lot. Thank you both. 

Mr. ENGEL. But you do most of the work. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman McCaul 

and Ranking Member Thompson of the Committee on Homeland 

Security. 

Will the official reporter please enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

37 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Homeland Security has 

responsibility to provide oversight for the Department of Homeland 

Security. It has also been tasked with protecting Americans from 

potential terrorist attacks, as well as cyber-attacks and securing 

the borders. I want to welcome Chairman McCaul and Ranking 

Member Thompson. And the Chair would now recognize Chairman 

McCaul for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. MCCAUL. Thank you Chairman Harper, Ranking Member 

Brady. I think it goes without saying that homeland security issues 

have never been more relevant or timely or threatening. And thank 

you for the opportunity to testify today on the working goals of the 

Committee. I am pleased to be sitting next to Ranking Member 

Thompson, who has been a great partner over the last 4 years in 

a bipartisan spirit. 

I am proud of the work the Committee has done in the last 4 

years in a bipartisan manner. In the last Congress we passed 89 

bills, we passed 88 on the House floor, responsible for 32 public 

laws, despite our jurisdictional issues, and held almost 90 hearings, 

19 markups, and produced more than 30 reports. 

The 114th Congress was the most productive legislative Congress 

the Committee has ever had. In this Congress the Committee will 

again focus on counterterrorism efforts, both at home and abroad. 

We are still a Nation at war. In 2016 nearly a thousand people 

killed were either or injured in terror attacks in Western countries 

alone. Jihadists are being radicalized online and being urged to attack what they call the kuffar, the nonbeliever, in their own backyard. 

This Committee will play a vital role, as always, in keeping 

Americans safe in the coming years. In the 114th Congress much 

of the legislation was used in response to the attacks in Paris and 

Orlando and Brussels. We also focused on the border, and we will 

focus on it heavily this Congress. Our borders remain insecure, are 

a matter of national security, and we need to put in place a multilayered defense system that drug cartels and terrorists can’t get 

through and slip through the cracks. 

This Committee also needs to do our part to defend our digital 

frontiers. We are fighting a silent war in cyberspace with unlimited 

fronts. Nation-states, criminals, hacktivists, and terrorists are infiltrating our networks. Some want to embarrass us, others are seeking to copy our innovation, steal our intellectual property, our Nation’s secrets, and acts of espionage and cyber warfare continue to 

be a real threat to the United States, and also the threat to undermine the very foundation of our Republic. 

Unfortunately, I think the enemy is winning in this space. We 

have to get serious about playing defense and respond in a way 

that will make other adversaries think twice about doing it again. 

Last but not least, we will finally reauthorize the Department of 

Homeland Security. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, the Department of Homeland Security has never been reauthorized by 

Congress since its creation. That is something I want to change. 

38 

Since the 9/11 attacks and the creation it has never been reauthorized. 

What we put in place was a MOU with seven other committees 

of jurisdiction and their Chairmen, led by the Majority Leader and 

the Speaker, and I am confident that this long-overdue responsibility will finally be accomplished and we will be able to provide 

the Department with the congressional direction that it has lacked 

in the last 15 years. This MOU is a result of a leadership-backed 

process and was submitted as an extension of remarks under the 

Speaker’s signature in the Congressional Record. Our authorization 

effort will address all the issues I have outlined previously and also 

waste, fraud, and abuse, as well as streamlining and consolidating 

the offices within DHS. 

In order to ensure that we will be successful in this effort we 

have spoken to other committees to gather some of the lessons 

learned, how to avoid common pitfalls. And what we learned, which 

was no real surprise, is that this will be a significant legislative 

lift. We have already hired one full-time dedicated staff to lead this 

effort. This staffer has more than 15 years of experience in the 

House and significant experience on legislative and parliamentary 

matters. 

Due to the urgency of this effort, we took a leap of faith and 

hired her before we finalized our budget in 2017. This person is 

spearheading the reauthorization effort, which includes working 

with leadership, outside stakeholders, and other House and Senate 

committees. 

We would also like to hire dedicated staff to work solely on the 

budget aspects of reauthorization, something we do not have expertise in currently. Therefore, the Committee is asking for a $300,000 

increase in our annual budget. As the majority, we will spend our 

portion of this $200,000 on the reauthorization effort. The remainder will be at the direction of the Ranking Member and minority 

staff as to how best to spend this in support of the reauthorization. 

Again, this will be a significant challenge for us, but if the Department is never reauthorized, it will never have congressional direction, it will never have the imprimatur of the Congress, and we 

will be abdicating our responsibilities as a separate branch of government. 

With that, I want to thank you, and I appreciate your time and 

consideration. I look forward to a productive Congress. 

[The statement of Mr. McCaul follows:] 

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41 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairman McCaul. 

I will now recognize my fellow Mississippian and the Ranking 

Member of Homeland Security, Congressman Thompson. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. BENNIE G. THOMPSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI 

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you very much, Chairman Harper and 

Ranking Member Brady and Members of the Committee. I might 

add, Mr. Chair, you look mighty fine as Chair. 

I am pleased to be here to support the funding request submitted 

by my partner on the Committee on Homeland Security, Chairman 

McCaul. Last Congress the Committee was enormously active. In 

the 114th Congress the Committee conducted 90 hearings, including 6 field hearings, and held 19 markups, 59 Member briefings, 

and 3 site visits. That was a 70 percent increase in the number of 

CHS advanced bills considered by the full House over the previous 

Congress. Ultimately, we advanced nearly 90 measures to the 

House floor and succeeded in having 40 enacted into law in some 

form or fashion. 

With respect to oversight, we had great success, particularly with 

respect to identifying efficiencies in DHS headquarters operations 

and improving operations at TSA and CBP. Another oversight 

highlight was the bipartisan work undertaken by the Task Force 

on Combatting Terrorist and Foreign Fighter Travel. 

As we look to the next 2 years, there is an expectation that the 

Committee will be heavily involved in preparing and advancing 

comprehensive authorization legislation for the Department of 

Homeland Security. Congress after Congress jurisdictional barriers 

have prevented the Department, the third-largest Federal agency, 

from being reauthorized since it was established in 2002. The closest this Committee has ever gotten to fully authorizing DHS was 

a decade ago, in 2007, when the House approved comprehensive 

legislation that I authored. 

With this Congress, Chairman McCaul executed an agreement to 

advance a package with the Chairmen of eight other committees 

with jurisdictional claims in the homeland security space. I compliment him for that. I am not aware of it being done in quite a 

while. As you know, jurisdiction is the Holy Grail in this institution, so I compliment him on that. 

This important undertaking is expected to be resource intensive. 

As such, the Committee is seeking $300,000 in increased funding. 

Of that amount, $100,000 is necessary for Committee Democrats to 

fully participate in a DHS authorization process. 

By approving our budget request for the 115th Congress, you 

would be helping Congress carry out its constitutional responsibilities to oversee the executive branch. Specifically, by doing so, you 

would be ensuring that CHS has the resources to translate our 

oversight findings into legislation to help the Department mature 

and succeed in its vital mission of securing the Nation from the 

many threats we face. 

Thank you again, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, for the 

opportunity to testify. And I look forward to answering any questions you might have. 

42 

[The statement of Mr. Thompson follows:] 

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44 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ranking Member Thompson. So we 

have already voted in the extra increase just because you were so 

nice when you started out there. 

But I thank you both for the great work that you do. The way 

you work together, even when you disagree on policy issues, you 

have exhibited a good working relationship. We are thankful for 

that. 

One of the responsibilities we have is the constitutional responsibility to remember that we are a coequal branch of the government 

and we punish ourselves sometimes. As you look at what our funding levels historically have been on this Committee, you are still 

way under what we were probably back in the 2007, 2008 levels. 

So we recognize you have gone through this and looked at it. We 

want to make sure you have got the resources to do this very important authorization of DHS. That is just not an easy undertaking. And so we want to make sure you are equipped to do that. 

With that, I will recognize Mr. Brady for any comments or questions he may have, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I think that the Ranking Member already answered my question, 

but for the record I need to ask that you are okay with the financial one-third, two-thirds agreement that we have always had. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes, sir. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. That is it. 

The CHAIRMAN. I now recognize the Vice Chair of the Committee, 

Mr. Davis, if you have any questions. 

Mr. DAVIS. Yes. Mr. Chairman, do you feel that your budget request allows you to perform your oversight responsibilities up to a 

level that you would be comfortable with? 

Mr. MCCAUL. Well, we would always welcome more from this 

Committee, but we were trying to be realistic in terms of our staffing for the reauthorization. I think this Committee will be very active this Congress with so much on its plate, the executive orders 

that have come out with respect to the building of physical barriers, to the travel restrictions, to the counterterrorism efforts, to 

the cyber mission. It is going to require intense oversight to make 

sure that the administration gets it right. 

So I think, as the Chairman mentioned, we are probably still at 

pre-2007 levels with what I consider to be the most important mission under the Constitution, it is providing for common defense as 

I look at the homeland. 

I just met with the outgoing National Security Director, the FBI, 

and talked about the threats as he sees it going out of office. And, 

unfortunately, they are still alive and well, and the homeland is 

still very much at risk. And it is difficult, given the current resource situation, to do our job adequately to provide that kind of 

oversight, which is essential. 

Again, we are trying to be, I think, realistic in our quest, but certainly would welcome any additional funding. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would now recognize Ms. Comstock for 

any questions that she may have. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

45 

And I would just like to reiterate your comments and my interest 

in seeing, particularly we had Foreign Affairs before and now with 

Homeland, that you all do have the sufficient resources in this very 

dangerous time. 

So I appreciate that as a former staffer and the need for you to 

have your staff there. And also, given the competition that I know 

on the majority side we are having with staff getting stolen from 

other areas, I think it is important that we make sure we have 

adequate resources for you also. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady yields back. 

I now recognize Mr. Loudermilk being for any questions that you 

may have, sir. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman McCaul, thank you for the testimony, and I commend 

you on the staff. After serving on your Committee the last couple 

of years, that is one of the most dedicated and loyal staffs and 

knowledgeable staffs of any of the committees we have in the 

House, and that it is commendable and shows your leadership as 

well. 

It is extremely important that we make sure that we are well 

staffed, and I am excited about the reauthorization, I think it is 

something that we have to do. 

My question would be, after a hopefully successful reauthorization and budgeting, what would be the plan for these two staff positions? Would you reallocate those to work on other things or 

would you go back to the previous staffing level? 

Mr. MCCAUL. Well, we want to model this authorization after the 

NDAA model, which is really an annual authorization. Now, that 

is a very high challenge to my Committee, our Committee. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Right. 

Mr. MCCAUL. That is, I think, the model. And if it is done on 

that basis, I think it really fulfills our responsibilities under the 

Constitution under Article I to exercise our proper role. I think too 

long we have ceded this authority to the executive branch, regardless of party, and I think it is time that Congress steps forward on 

this issue. 

So I don’t see these two staffers going away. They could always 

help in other functions with the Committee. But this will be a fulltime effort on an annual basis. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Okay. Thank you. 

No other questions. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

Again, thanks to both of you. I also want to commend you on the 

emphasis that you have had and will have in this Congress on 

dealing with cybersecurity issues. So we look forward to hearing 

back from you. Thank you. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. MCCAUL. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Nunes 

and Ranking Member Schiff of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Would the official reporter please enter a 

page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

46 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence is tasked with oversight of the United States intelligence 

community, which includes the intelligence and intelligence-related 

activities of the following 17 elements of the U.S. Government and 

the military intelligence program. It is an unbelievable list of responsibilities that you have to provide that look into and oversight 

for. 

So I want to welcome Chairman Nunes and Ranking Member 

Schiff. And the Chair now recognizes the Chairman for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. DEVIN NUNES, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Mr. NUNES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And hopefully I don’t 

take all the time, but I do want to just kind of briefly run you 

through what we do on our Committee and why we have asked for 

such a large increase. 

And just to put it in perspective, in 2016 the Committee received 

less funding than we did in 2002. Since then an entire new superstructure of the intelligence community was created by the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act. The continual increase in the size of the IC has stretched the ability of the Committee and staff to conduct vigorous oversight demanded by the 

current security environment. 

Today the Committee serves as an exclusive House oversight 

body over the intelligence community’s 17 agencies and authorizes 

more than $70 billion a year, which is more authorizing power than 

most Committees have. Unlike most Committees, the Intelligence 

Committee passes an annual Intelligence Authorization Act which 

requires significant dedication of staff resources. This is independent of the staff resources needed to conduct day-to-day oversight work. 

The Committee also serves as a venue for all House Members to 

learn about sensitive intelligence programs. This again requires 

significant staff and resources to educate Members that are not on 

the Committee in the Committee spaces, a service typically not provided by other committees. For instance, this year alone the Committee staff has individually briefed approximately 100 noncommittee Members on specific classified intelligence reports. 

Additionally, the Committee faces continual pressures from other 

committees to review bills in areas of shared jurisdiction. In order 

to respond to other committees in a timely and effective fashion the 

Committee requires numerous lawyers familiar with the intelligence community and its unique mission. 

The Committee currently only employs five lawyers, that is Republicans and Democrats, three of whom who are dual-hatted and 

perform other policy-related work. Just in comparison, most committees have dozens of lawyers, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. 

Under the direction from the Speaker, the Committee also has a 

significant domestic and international travel requirement to conduct oversight. In the 114th Congress Committee Members and 

staff traveled more than nearly all committees in Congress. This is 

especially significant considering the size of the Committee. 

47 

Although most Committee travel does not have a budget impact, 

it does take staff resources. Unlike other committees, the Intelligence staff cannot conduct normal work on the road since much 

of their work is classified and therefore must be performed in a secure facility. This in turn reduces the Committee’s ability to be responsive to agencies. 

Because of the nature of classified oversight work done by the 

Committee, the Intelligence Committee has a particular need to 

hire staff with specialized knowledge. These staff must also have 

the highest clearances authorized within the Federal Government. 

This clearance requirement causes the Committee to have higher 

than normal compensation levels, straining the Committee’s budget. 

In order to ensure that the Committee is fulfilling its mission 

while providing appropriate assistance to all House Members, the 

Committee hopes to hire additional staff in the 115th Congress. 

Over the past 6 years the Committee has maintained an average 

of 31 employees, less than half of the 6-year House average of 64 

employees for standing committees. During this time the Committee staff has remained flat while the prominence of intelligence 

issues within the national discourse has dramatically increased. 

Finally, the Committee seeks to improve security for its own 

computer systems by phasing out old servers and strengthening 

internet protections to reduce various risks, including intrusion by 

foreign actors. Because information about vulnerabilities of the 

Committee’s system is classified, we can provide a detailed briefing 

on the Committee’s information technology needs in a secure space. 

And with that, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member and the 

other Members of the Committee, this is also a very bipartisan 

Committee. Mr. Schiff and myself work together behind closed 

doors and I think have produced very bipartisan products over the 

course of the last Congress. So I look forward to your questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Nunes follows:] 

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50 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I now recognize Ranking Member Schiff for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ADAM B. SCHIFF, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Mr. SCHIFF. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 

Brady. I will be quick and won’t need to use the full 5 minutes. But 

I fully concur with the Chairman’s remarks. We have worked together extremely well on the Committee. We can do a lot, and do, 

but there is more yet to be accomplished. 

Our funding is still at pre-9/11 levels. Since that time, the 

threats have only multiplied and increased in severity, from alQaida, to ISIL, to China, North Korea, and of course Russia. The 

size and complexity of the intelligence community has also kept 

apace. There are now 17 different IC agencies and the budget tops 

many tens of billions of dollars. 

In coping with these challenges and increased responsibilities our 

size and budget on the Committee have fallen behind. We have a 

staff of 31 and a spending average of $3.9 million a year, ranking 

in the lowest tier of House committees and at the very bottom of 

our fellow national security committees. Foreign Affairs and Homeland Security, for example, have in excess of two and a half times 

as many staff as we have. 

Additionally, because of the classified nature of the IC, we cannot 

rely on outside groups to raise issues to our attention as other committees can. We have to find out these issues ourselves, often from 

agencies that happen to be very good at keeping secrets, at least 

most of the time. 

It is also worth reiterating that the Intelligence Committee 

passes an intelligence authorization every year, which is essential 

to our detailed oversight mission. It involves countless budget 

meetings, site visits with agencies, negotiations with multiple committees, as well as an interagency process. 

So there are enormous challenges. National security obviously is 

not the exclusive province of the intel community, but we are increasingly called upon to review and comment on other shared bills 

of jurisdiction. 

And it is worth also noting that in addition to the oversight of 

the intelligence community, in addition to the IT threats that we 

face, obviously there are cyber threats that we all face, but the 

Intel Committee in particular. We also have a major investigation 

to conduct. And for those reasons and others we could use this additional assistance. 

With that, I yield back. 

[The statement of Mr. Schiff follows:] 

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Mr. CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ranking Member Schiff, and appreciate your testimony here. 

What we want to make sure of is that you have the resources 

you need as we as Congress fulfill our constitutional responsibility 

to be that coequal branch of government and do the job that we 

need to do. It is hard to identify another Committee that has more 

things that have fallen into your lap that have to be looked at very, 

very closely. So we will look at this very carefully, and appreciate 

you being here today. 

I now recognize Mr. Brady for 5 minutes for any questions or 

comments he may have. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Just one with the Ranking Member, to make sure, I think I 

heard that you are okay with the one-third, two-thirds, but I need 

you on the record that you are getting your one-third, two-third resources from the majority. 

Mr. SCHIFF. Yes, we do. And we also have shared employees, and 

it has been a very good and productive working relationship. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will now recognize Mr. Davis, the Vice 

Chair of the Committee, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Loudermilk. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Just one quick comment and question. After working in the military and the intelligence community, I am gravely concerned over 

the conduct that we have seen in our intelligence community. Will 

this help with our oversight efforts to make sure that it is conducted properly and for its purposes? 

Mr. NUNES. Thank you, Mr. Loudermilk. 

What I would say is that the—I think we—I think Adam and I, 

the Ranking Member and I, view this, our Committee, as a Committee that provides—not only does the oversight work, but also 

provides a service to all of you. And we hope that we have done 

our best to take—bring Members in, give them briefings, walk 

them. We have had numerous briefings where we have brought in 

people from the IC to actually brief Members, and we try to accommodate all of those needs. 

And I think you would appreciate this, but one of the big concerns that we have here is because our Nation’s secrets are kept 

down there, security is so, so important we can never forget that, 

which is part of the reason why we need to update our cybersecurity systems, which we would be, as I said in my testimony, we 

would be glad to bring you down and talk about some of those 

threats. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. I have visited there, being on Homeland Security, I have spent a lot of time in the SCIFs. And, Mr. Chairman, 

I really appreciate this and only wish we could only do more in this 

instance. And I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I am confident that they would not object if we 

did more, but we will see. 

But thank you for your time and we greatly appreciate it. I want 

to thank all the Chairs and Ranking Members that have appeared 

54 

so far for their testimony and I also want to thank the Committee 

Members for their participation. 

I now recess the hearing. The Committee will reconvene subject 

to the call of Chair. We will reconvene at 2:00 p.m. 

[Recess.] 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will come to order. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Conaway and Ranking Member 

Peterson of the Committee on Agriculture. Will the official reporter 

please enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new 

section. 

55 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Agriculture is tasked 

with oversight of conservation, food transparency, and innovation 

in agriculture among many other areas. Its primary focus is to 

maintain and create commonsense solutions regarding food and 

farm policy. I want to welcome Chairman Conaway and Ranking 

Member Peterson, and the Chair now recognizes Chairman Conaway for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. K. MICHAEL CONAWAY, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. CONAWAY. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I won’t take 5 

minutes. My good friend and I, Collin Peterson, are here today to 

visit with you about the budget that we submitted. In the 114th 

Congress, we got everything we authorized that is under our Committee’s responsibility. There are no other authorizing Committee 

that can lay claim to that. The one piece that did not get fully reauthorized is the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which 

we await Senate action on that, but we reauthorized it again this— 

in this time as well. We had 84 hearings, 24 investigations, did 

great work. 

The 115th Congress will be dominated by the Farm Bill. That is 

job one for the next 2 years to get that done. We haven’t done one 

on time in 16 years. Collin and I are deeply committed to getting 

it done on time. The drama associated with expirations and shortterm extensions is unnecessary, and I look forward to working with 

our Senate colleagues to try to make that happen. 

In that regard, we requested additional funding for field listening 

sessions. Typically, in the past, Members—the Committee has held 

field hearings. Those are basically Cecil B. DeMille’s productions 

where you bring a lot of gear and you bring a lot of extra people 

and all that stuff. 

We will not do that. We will listen. We will transcribe the events, 

so it will be a part of the public record, but we are going to hear 

it up from not only the groups that are there, we will also hear 

from individual producers, farmers, and ranchers, I think, as a part 

of this deal. 

We have also asked for money to handle the conference Committee report in 2018 that we anticipate being there, the mechanics 

for that. We believe we have been good shepherds of the resources 

we have had before. 

We have migrated all of the IT stuff. We saved a lot of money 

there, done the things we are supposed to do to get off the standalone things that some committees have had out there, and we 

have gotten that fixed. We also ask for additional money for our 

staff. 

We remind the Committee last year, I was encouraged—last 

year, I was encouraged to ask for more money. We chose not do 

that. I am not—I am a CPA by profession, and I don’t spend up 

budgets just to be spending it so that I can defend it the next year. 

But I also rely on the decision makers to recognize that we only 

ask for the money we think we need, and if we turn out we don’t 

need it, we don’t spend it in order to try to defend the following 

year’s budget. That is not a really good, particularly good practice, 

56 

so with those, those brief remarks, we stand ready to answer any 

questions and forward to my colleagues’ comments. 

[The statement of Mr. Conaway follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairman Conaway, and thank you 

for that testimony. We now recognize Ranking Member Peterson 

for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. COLLIN C. PETERSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA 

Mr. PETERSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good afternoon to 

you and Mr. Brady. Members of the Committee, I am pleased to 

be here today with my friend and colleague in support of the Agriculture Committee budget request. I look forward to continuing the 

Agriculture Committee’s tradition of working together and getting 

things done, and during the 115th Congress, as we begin the process to reauthorize legislation which expires this Congress, we will 

be looking at the Agriculture Act of 2014, known as the Farm Bill 

and the Pesticide Registration Improvement Act referred to as 

PRIA. 

As Chairman Conaway has outlined, it is important that we have 

the necessary resources to meet our ambitious agenda, conduct 

proper oversight, and get out in the countryside to actually see and 

hear what is and what is not working. The Ag Committee has proven to be efficient, fair, and prudent with its resources. Maybe that 

has something to do with the fact that both the Chairman and I 

are CPAs and we are committed to operating within our budget 

confines. 

That said, under Chairman Conaway’s guidance, the Committee 

has addressed duplicative areas with House funded technology, and 

though I understand the Committee’s current data exceeds—data 

exceeds what the House will allocate, I would ask that the Ag Committee be granted additional cloud storage space to share documents with other House offices in the Senate for the upcoming 

Farm Bill. 

I look forward to working with him and to find the—and implement additional efficiencies in this area, and I also want to say 

that the Chairman has been respectful of the rights of the minority. I appreciate his efforts to maintain this relationship, and I 

want to thank this Committee for the opportunity to testify here 

today and appreciate your consideration of the Ag Committee budget request. 

[The statement of Mr. Peterson follows:] 

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Mr. CONAWAY. Would the gentleman yield for a moment? 

Mr. PETERSON. Yeah. 

Mr. CONAWAY. I would like to—I forgot to say this. When I was 

working at a bank and responsible for hiring and firing folks, if I 

had somebody leave, I would not replace them for some period of 

time. We left several vacancies on both staffs during this past session because we didn’t have the Farm Bill in front of us. 

We now need to fill those staff positions, and so rather than do 

that ahead of time and just have folks sit around, we chose not to 

do that. I don’t want to be penalized for that because I do need— 

I now need them and look forward to being able to have the resources to bring the staff up to speed to be able to allow us to get 

the Farm Bill work done. With that, I yield back to my friend. 

Mr. PETERSON. I have no further comments. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, and I appreciate both of your testimonies. Thank you for yielding back. We recognize, too, that we 

have a responsibility as Congress to remember that we are a coequal branch of the government, and we have to make sure that 

we are equipped to do what our job is, to make sure that we are 

there and not at a disadvantage. 

And I certainly want to commend you for not asking for money 

when you didn’t really need it at that point, because that increases 

your credibility when you come back and say we really could use 

it this time, and you are coming off what I believe is maybe 3 years 

of level funding for the Committee. You have got a major undertaking coming up in this Congress, and we want you to be successful in getting this done, because it is no easy task, and so we appreciate what you are doing in that regard. 

I also want to acknowledge what you are doing on the IT area. 

Cybersecurity issues are an ever increasing threat and will continue, and I am thankful that that is also a part of your focus as 

you are going here to be ready for that, and do what you got to do 

to retain good staff that you have got and add to that for this Farm 

Bill authorization. With that, I will recognize Mr. Brady for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I did hear from 

the Ranking Member that I would assume you mentioned the onethird/two third ratio is working. That is all I care about. But I also 

must note you are two CPAs, and not attorneys. 

The CHAIRMAN. I just want to remind Ranking Member Brady 

that lawyers are people, too. Okay. 

Mr. BRADY. He says that all the time, but I don’t believe him. 

The CHAIRMAN. With that, I will recognize Mr. Davis, the Vice 

Chairman of the Committee, 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would have to agree 

with the Ranking Member on the attorney comments, so—I—it is 

an honor to actually serve on the Committee with both of you, and 

I want to echo some of the statements that Gregg made that it was 

pretty impressive, you know, a couple of years ago, I asked you, 

Chairman, you know, what would you do if you could get extra 

funding? And you were adamant, and you said, we don’t need it, 

we don’t want it, we are not going to ask for it. We believe we can 

accomplish every goal that the Committee has with the funding 

levels that you requested at the time, and you did that. 

61 

And now, I agree, we are moving into a new Congress, a new 

Farm Bill. We need to be the voices—or we need to be the listeners 

to the voices out in our communities, out in this great country. So 

I appreciate you coming in and your honesty. I have always been 

honored to serve with both of you because you have such a great 

working relationship together, and I look forward to, if you get 

your budget request, getting every single priority of mine in the 

Farm Bill, too. I won’t ask for a commitment. 

Mr. PETERSON. Maybe you can take up some of mine, too. 

Mr. DAVIS. No. Thank you. Is there anything that—well, I have 

one question. Is there anything that you would do above and beyond your budget request if you were to get any other funding? 

Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you for the question. I don’t think so. 

Given the immense importance of a Farm Bill, it is going to dominate our collective thoughts and work. 

The other thing about this Farm Bill is that we just spent 2 

years of doing 16 hearings on SNAP, the first time the oversight 

work has been done on that program in a couple of decades. We 

have gleaned from that some things that we need to do. We need 

to reform the program. There are policy changes we are going to 

need to make in that. I am going to need to—we all need to spend 

time convincing our colleagues of that and working through that. 

So this Farm Bill will be less easy, although you never call one 

of them easy, but be less difficult maybe, or be a little bit more difficult, because we are going to go at both sides of it. The safety net, 

conservation, trade, rural development piece, as well as the SNAP 

piece, and so I don’t believe that the Committee would take—could 

do anything else besides get that done. 

We want to get it done on time. I can’t emphasize that enough. 

The reason is, one, it would allow Collin and I to brag, but the real 

reason is, farmers and ranchers, bankers, implement dealers, everybody wants a stable program, and so having one that is done 

ahead of time and ready to go with into position on October 1, will 

allow them to look at that next 5-year window to begin making 

their business plans. 

If you are in the farming business, you don’t make 1 year at a 

time plan. You have got a multiyear plan. If you are banker, you 

are going to lend over a series of period of time, so that stability 

and the impact it has on the production and agriculture and the 

impact that has on rural economy, rural America, I think, is 

enough of a reason why we need to get it done and get it done on 

time. 

So thank you for the question, but I don’t believe there is anything else we would do beyond getting that done and done on time. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, we can tell you are an accountant by trade because you are very comfortable with your numbers and your request. 

Mr. CONAWAY. Sure. 

Mr. DAVIS. Two times in a row, I have asked that question and 

two times you have been brutally honest to say that you have 

asked only for what you need, so thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank 

you, Mr. Ranking Member. I yield back, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Davis. Thank you for being here. 

We appreciate the testimony, the information that you have proVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00063 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
62 

vided, and we will give it a really good look, and thank you for the 

hard work you are doing. Thank you. 

Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Sessions and Ranking Member Slaughter. Would the official reporter 

please enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new 

section. 

63 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Rules considers both a 

special rule that provides the terms and conditions of debate on a 

measure or matter, and original jurisdiction measures, which commonly represent changes to the standing rules of the House. It is 

a very busy Committee, and we thank you for your work on that, 

sometimes thankless job. 

So I want to welcome Chairman Sessions and Ranking Member 

Slaughter, and the Chair will now recognize Chairman Sessions for 

5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. PETE SESSIONS, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and to the 

Committee, Mr. Brady, thank you for allowing us to be here. Mr. 

Chairman, both Louise Slaughter, the Ranking Member and I, approach you respectfully today not only with this Committee that 

has to make very difficult decisions about the allocations of this 

body, but we recognize that much of what is done here is based on 

a prioritization that needs to take place so that the work on behalf 

of the American people can be accomplished. 

It is said that both Louise and I approach you and the entire 

Committee respectfully today to ask you for—to hear our thoughts 

and ideas about the Rules Committee, our performance, our jobs, 

and the things which we need to perform for the United States 

House of Representatives on a day-by-day basis, or perhaps more 

importantly, we place ourselves before you with your ideas about 

how we might perform not only better, but make ourselves better 

prepared for what lies ahead to us. 

It would be true, Mr. Chairman, to recognize that almost every 

Member of this Committee also does business with the Rules Committee, and I recognize that there are some Members of the Committee that may not have always have received exactly what they 

wanted to be made in order, and I know the gentleman from Illinois probably would express those ideas. 

But I would like to say to each of you that both Louise and I 

have tried our very best, not only to work together, but to understand the responsibilities that come from me as Chairman, when 

she was Chairman, and when she is now Ranking Member, and I 

think that we attempt to run our Committee, the staff, and the 

presentations that we get at the Rules Committee in the highest 

of professional standards of the House of Representatives as we 

work together. 

Mr. Chairman, it is important for you to understand that we believe that the function of the Rules Committee as a standing Committee is to function perhaps—function perhaps different than 

other committees, and that is, without the Committee on Rules at 

its—operating at its peak efficiency, the House of Representatives 

cannot do so either. We do business on a day-to-day basis. We have 

to be prepared for things that are weeks out. We have to do a lot 

of homework. We have to stay up late at night preparing the homework that needs to be prepared not only for our clients, which will 

be other Members of Congress, but also the committees that need 

to do work with the Rules Committee to prepare themselves on the 

majority and minority basis. 

64 

It is true that while much of the responsibility rests on the majority, I would say equally the minority has to prepare themselves, 

they need great employees, they need employees that have wise 

knowledge, not only of the House of Representatives, but, in many 

ways, specialties in dealing with the rules of the House of Representatives and the things that allow us to prepare our clients so 

that they may be prepared as they enter the Rules Committee and 

move forward on their work. 

We have requested, as you know, for quite a number of years, 

simply a flat budget. We recognize the circumstance not only that 

the United States of America, our constituents back home are in, 

but also, we recognize that the need of the House of Representatives to trim its costs back as we trim back all of government. However, we have requested, as you know, an opportunity to receive a 

slight increase this year, a slight increase of some 5 percent that 

we believe would represent an opportunity for us to not only offer 

the efficiencies that are necessary, but prepare for the larger workload that we see. 

I would also say that, as I speak to you, we are following through 

on a one-third/two-thirds basis, but rather than just on staff money 

or salaries, we operate that across the board. We give them onethird of all the money that might come. And, so, we believe that 

based upon the workload that lies ahead as well as, as you are 

aware, Mr. Chairman, we worked with you on an additional request for $100,000 that would not be for the Rules Committee, but, 

rather, work that the Rules Committee and this Committee accomplish together with other important parts of the House of Representatives so that we can move forward to be prepared for a 

meeting of House rules that we have been directed by the Republican conference to do. 

I want to thank you for the time to allow me to be here today. 

I open myself up for questions, and I am sure that you will want 

to welcome Louise for the strong support that she gives not only 

to the House of Representatives, her party, but also the United 

States Congress. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

[The statement of Mr. Sessions follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairman Sessions. I will now recognize Ranking Member Slaughter for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. LOUISE MCINTOSH SLAUGHTER, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW 

YORK 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. 

Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Brady, and the other Members of 

the Committee. We are delighted to be here this morning. I am 

very pleased to join Chairman Sessions to present the Committee 

on Rules’ budget request for the 115th Congress. 

It is no secret that our Committee is often a place of heated policy debate. Our meetings are representational of the same type of 

conversations happening all across the country during this particularly contentious environment. But at the same time, I am proud 

to say these debates have always remained solely about legislative 

substance and the process by which legislation goes to the floor, 

and not about the Committee functions and administratively. 

This Committee stands alone in its unique mission of facilitating 

the work of all other committees in the House of Representatives. 

Chairman Sessions and I take this responsibility seriously, and 

have worked in lockstep to ensure this Committee fulfills its 

unique mission fairly and justly. 

This principle guides the division of everything from equipment 

and office supplies to the allocation of space and personnel. I am 

grateful that Chairman Sessions is continuing the tradition of providing the minority full control over a third of the Committee’s 

overall budget. 

The House Rules Committee has the second smallest budget of 

any Committee in Congress, and this approach of administrative 

equity has helped to ensure that we are able to fulfill our mission 

efficiently and effectively. I fully support Chairman Sessions’ request of the House Administration Committee and join him in the 

request. 

As Chairman Sessions has said, it is essential for our democracy 

that every majority have a fully functioning minority. This request 

will ensure that the majority/minority alike can robustly fulfill 

their obligations to the body and to the American people. 

I also want to take the moment to thank the extraordinary staff 

of our Committee on both sides. The Rules Committee is like family, and I believe it has the most respected staff on Capitol Hill. 

In order for the House to fully function, the Rules Committee must 

be able to consider legislation quickly, and that often means working long hours and sometimes late into the night. 

The majority and minority staffs work hard and they work together, whether this Committee meets in the morning or at midnight. They embody the collaborative approach that this Committee 

is known for. I am proud to present this budget with Chairman 

Sessions today, and I want to thank Chairman Harper and Ranking Member Brady once again, and all of the Committee Members 

for your time and attention, and I will be happy to answer any 

questions that you may have, and I thank you. 

[The statement of Ms. Slaughter follows:] 

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71 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Slaughter and Chairman Sessions. You know, this is—you know, we all 

love this institution. The House of Representatives is a special 

place, but I think you are right in what you said, Chairman Sessions. This is not—the House cannot function without a properly 

functioning Rules Committee, so your work is vital to what we do. 

We realize, too, that we have a constitutional responsibility, and 

that we are a coequal branch of government. We want to make 

sure that we don’t give up that to where we are out of balance. We 

want to make sure that we are what we should be, and that certainly necessitates what you are doing. 

In looking at your request for a funding increase over last year, specifically, just so I am sure about this extra $100,000, this would 

be for the data transparency initiative. Is that correct? 

Mr. SESSIONS. In fact, that would be correct, Mr. Chairman, and 

this—this comes as a request from the Republican conference and 

the House rules that were adopted, and it deals with what we 

might call the Posey request. And while we think we have scoped 

this as an opportunity for $100,000 per year, there are a number 

of people who are working on it, and we have simply chosen outside of our normal budget and outside of what would be shared as 

a project that would be held pending a final agreement about how 

it would be used. 

The CHAIRMAN. Just so I am clear, general funding that we have 

is done two-thirds/one-third? 

Mr. SESSIONS. That is correct, across the board. 

The CHAIRMAN. And what about that 100,000? How would that— 

that would be—— 

Mr. SESSIONS. That would not—that is a set-aside that would not 

be shared. It would be entirely for what I would say above the line. 

I would not use that for the normal necessary processes that would 

take place at the Rules Committee. If I did, I would notify Louise 

and we would do that allocation. His is for the project that is necessary. 

The CHAIRMAN. And then you would agree with that, Ms. Slaughter? 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. So far. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, we can only—we can only cover as far as 

February the 15th, 2017 at 2:22 in the afternoon, so right now that 

is good. 

Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, she has a saying that pretty much 

goes: Let’s compromise and do it my way. Yeah. And so Louise and 

I—— 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. Pete is very easy to work with. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is good. 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. And he strives to be fair, and we are very grateful for that. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is great. Thank you very much, and on 

that—— 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. Our Committee was founded in 1789, and we 

have got a great history to defend. 

The CHAIRMAN. And you weren’t here then, were you, Mr. Sessions? 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. I was. 

72 

Mr. SESSIONS. She knew Abraham Lincoln. 

The CHAIRMAN. You know, my mom, who passed away last year, 

never forgave me for asking her as a child if she lived during the 

Civil War, so you know, that stuff goes on. But thank you, and 

please give our regards to your father, Judge Sessions, if you will. 

Mr. SESSIONS. I will do that, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Mr. SESSIONS. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. And I will now recognize the Ranking Member, 

Mr. Brady for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just—you answered my 

question. The Chairman answered my question to the Ranking 

Member about the one-third/two-third. I appreciate that. Many 

years ago, I got asked to go on the Rules Committee, and I made 

the best decision of my life not to, because you are the hardest 

working Committee in Congress, and thank you for all your services and what you are doing. And also, Mr. Chairman, give my regards to your father also. 

Mr. SESSIONS. I will do that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very 

much. 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. You know, Mr. Brady, though we get to know 

more about bills than almost anybody. 

Mr. SESSIONS. Yeah. There is a positive side to the hard work. 

Ms. SLAUGHTER. There is. 

The CHAIRMAN. I now will recognize Mr. Davis, the Vice Chairman of the Committee, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, Madam Ranking 

Member. I like the Lincoln talk as somebody who represents part 

of the Lincoln district. I just had a question for clarification, because I didn’t see it in your materials. 

I see you are asking for an increase in your travel budget that 

is much higher than what you spent last year. Are you planning 

to do field hearings? What type of issues may we, as a Committee, 

want to consider with that request? 

Mr. SESSIONS. Yes. Thank you very much. In fact, while there is 

not necessarily the provision for that, we have taken on the role, 

both Louise and myself, with the authority and the responsibility 

to look at what would be the congressionally directed spending effort, and that may involve some bit of travel that could be involved, 

perhaps a field hearing. We have not really scoped that out, but we 

do believe that it was appropriate to request that with the additional workload that we have now been given, yes, sir. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, thank you for your clarification. Is there a contingency built in for maybe landing at the wrong airport? 

Mr. SESSIONS. If the gentleman would allow me an opportunity. 

The gentleman is well aware that I did come to visit him one time 

and landed at St. Louis Lambert International Airport, and he was 

across the river, and my plane did need to divert, and the gentleman would be correct, even Eagle Scouts make mistakes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member. 

Mr. SESSIONS. Yes, sir. 

Mr. DAVIS. I yield back. 

73 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr. 

Smith if he has any questions for 5 minutes. None. Mr. 

Loudermilk, you are recognized. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Sessions, 

thank you for being here. Just one quick question. With an IT 

background, I applaud our efforts in moving forward with the data 

transparency initiatives. At the same time, we have to balance that 

with security, and I just wanted to bring that up and make sure 

that that is at the forefront of us going forward, that we do have 

to balance that transparency with the security, because we know 

that there are bad people out there wanting to do bad things. 

Mr. SESSIONS. Thank you very much. The gentleman knows that 

I spent a number of years at Bell Communications Research, which 

took over after Bell Labs, and I spent several years in that organization, had a chance to see not only computer security, but, really, 

the future that would lie in having data that would reside in something that could be tapped into. 

The facts of the case are that what we believe is this is an internal process that would need to take place, and we are not necessarily exporting or allow people to export into that at this point, 

but the gentleman makes a really great point, and that is, every 

single one of us, whether it is our own personal offices or those 

committee jurisdictional offices that we have, we have a responsibility to ensure the data integrity. 

I think you and I both know that all it takes is someone tapping 

in, and they could cause enormous damage to us, so we are constantly on that. And we will go back and reassert not only your 

question, but ask the question inside, and I appreciate the gentleman bringing that once again to my attention. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. All right. Thank you. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. I want to thank both 

of you for coming today. We will look at this very carefully, and I 

appreciate your time today. 

Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Chabot 

and Ranking Member Vela ́zquez. Would the official reporter please 

enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

74 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Small Business is 

tasked with oversight of the Small Business Administration and its 

programs. Its primary focuses are matters relating to small business financial aid, regulatory flexibility, and paperwork reduction. 

I want to welcome the Chairman and Ranking Member, and the 

Chair will now recognize the Chairman for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. STEVE CHABOT, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and we thank you for 

your time; also, Ranking Member Brady as well. I appreciate the 

opportunity to discuss the 2017 budget request of the Committee 

on Small Business. 

I would like to take a moment to recognize our Committee’s 

Ranking Democratic Member, Congresswoman Nydia Vela ́zquez 

with whom I have served for a number of years with one of us in 

the Chair, and the other as Ranking Member. We traded off a few 

times. We don’t want to do that any time in the future, but we 

have a very good—— 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I disagree. 

Mr. CHABOT. She disagrees for the record, but we really do have 

an excellent working relationship, and I know that we will continue 

to build on the Committee’s strong record of accomplishment for 

entrepreneurs in the future with this Committee’s help. 

Since its founding, America has relied on small businesses to 

turn ideas into economic opportunity. Some have, by choice, remained small and become pillars of their communities; others have 

grown into the large companies of 20th and 21st centuries. They 

changed how Americans and others around the world go about 

their daily lives. 

For much of its history, our government crafted policies that focused on spurring commerce. As a result, those new jobs are created by small businesses, and about 50 percent of Americans are 

employed by small businesses. 

Recently, however, that emphasis, unfortunately, has changed. 

Rather than encouraging economic growth, Washington has imposed a regulatory regime that can only be described as a death by 

a thousand cuts. It can be said that the single biggest problem facing America’s entrepreneurs is burdensome regulations. It is one 

reason I was very happy to see the President announce in an executive order recently that he was going to do away with two new 

rules or regulations for every one that is implemented. I think that 

is certainly a step in the right direction. 

Some small businesses are still struggling in a difficult economy, 

but stakes could not be higher for small firms, and the role of the 

Committee on Small Business is increasingly vital. Our legislative 

jurisdiction may be narrow, but this Committee brings critical oversight scrutiny and public attention to the vast array of issues that 

confront small business owners in every congressional district. 

Scarce capital, unfair labor regulations, tax complexity, crushing 

energy rules, and the unworkable Dodd-Frank law, and the socalled Affordable Care Act. And again, my colleague and I would 

disagree on a couple of those things for sure, but those are my 

opinions. 

75 

The new administration shares many of our policy views and priorities. While we are hopeful of progress, our experience with the 

oversight reminds us that our duty to the taxpayer in keeping 

Washington accountable has not diminished. Accountability and 

oversight are nonpartisan values, and we will remain vigilant. 

Every major piece of legislation that makes its way through Congress will impact small businesses in some way. 

We must have the resources to ensure that America’s 28 million 

small businesses and the millions of families that depend on them 

are considered in every debate from healthcare reform to the repeal 

of Dodd-Frank to the Farm Bill and many others. Our Committee 

is fortunate to have representatives not only from coast to coast 

and everywhere in between, but also beyond our coast. 

We have two Members who represent the people of the U.S. territories of American Samoa, and now this Congress, Puerto Rico. 

The small businesses of these islands are valuable players in the 

American economy and may well hold the key to further unleash 

the power of entrepreneurship and innovation. We must have the 

resources to ensure that these constituents, as well as our own, are 

considered and heard. 

For the 114th Congress, the Committee was level funded at $6,045,228. Traditionally, the Committee has provided a full onethird of Committee resources to the minority, which they control. 

We appreciate the difficult decisions that the Ranking Member has 

made to ensure we stay within our allotment while also meeting 

our important responsibilities. 

Over the last 2 years, we purchased much needed equipment, replaced computers and a copier, and redesigned the Committee’s 

website. Both the majority and minority staffs reorganized, excuse 

me, to boost efficiency and redistributed duties to other staff to 

save funds, but our professional staff is severely strained and we 

must hire additional professional staff and dedicated investigative 

staff just to maintain the status quo. 

We do not have significant nonsalary spending to cut as these 

categories give us the tools needed to do our work, material, supplies, equipment, et cetera. A new administration focuses on the 

need to closely monitor news, and media subscriptions are very expensive. In addition, to traditional media, for example, our government contracting and financial services staff needs specialized subscriptions geared to those sectors to remain informed. 

We appreciate the difficult decisions that this Committee must 

make, and we hope that you will consider what we have achieved 

and allow us a very modest 4 percent increase to continue working 

hard for America’s best job creators, which are small businesses. 

We thank you, and we appreciate your consideration. 

[The statement of Mr. Chabot follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Chairman Chabot, and 

now I will recognize for 5 minutes the Ranking Member, Ms. 

Vela ́zquez. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW 

YORK 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Chairman Harper and Ranking 

Member Brady. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the 115th 

Congress budget submission for the Committee on Small Business. 

Small businesses create two-thirds of new jobs in the U.S. economy, 

and are critical drivers of innovation. For these reasons, I often say 

there is no Republican or Democratic approach when it comes to 

small businesses. 

Fortunately, Chairman Chabot leads the Committee with the 

same mindset, working in the best interest of America’s small businesses. While the Chairman and I may not agree 100 percent on 

all matters, particularly on repealing ACA or Dodd-Frank, gutting 

Dodd-Frank, one thing is certain: we are both committed to working together. This means a funding level that provides sufficient resources for Committee Members to focus on legislation, hearings, 

roundtables, covering the numerous issues facing small businesses. 

Chairman Chabot generously allows the minority full control of 

one-third of the funding to cover salaries and operating expenses. 

Recruiting and retaining staff is a challenge many committee offices face. And again, funding is vital in order to attract experienced specialized personnel. 

Since our Committee covers a wide range of policy issues, we employ experts in procurement, tax, financial services, regulation, to 

name a few. This requires the resources to attract and retain qualified personnel. 

At the end of last year, the minority was left with approximately 

1.4 percent of our allocation. Unfortunately, this does not allow us 

to operate the computer equipment, but we are hopeful we will 

have enough funding to purchase new computers this year. 

Chairman Harper, if a modest 4 percent increase is not foreseeable, we respectfully ask you consider flat funding the Committee 

so that we can move forward with all the work that lies ahead of 

us this next 2 years. I wasn’t supposed to say that. We are asking 

for 4 percent increase. 

The CHAIRMAN. I understand, and I appreciate it. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. And let me just say—— 

Mr. CHABOT. I move to have that stricken from the record. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. In terms of historically, the Committee on Small 

Business has been underfunded compared to all other committees. 

It wasn’t until the 111th Congress where there was an increase 

which was of great help to us. In the 112th, we got a little bump 

only to be impacted, as we are all aware, by sequestration in the 

113th. 

The Members of the Committee on Small Business are committed to working together in a bipartisan matter, which is something Chairman Chabot and I always strive for. We ask for full and 

fair consideration when determining our funding for the 115th ConVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00080 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
79 

gress. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, and all the 

Members of the Committee. 

[The statement of Ms. Vela ́zquez follows:] 

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81 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you both for your testimony, and we all 

realize that small businesses really are what drive the economy in 

this country, and their success determines our success as a country. 

So thank you for the work that you do. 

And we also, as I have told some of the other committees, we 

have a constitutional responsibility to be that effective coequal 

branch of the government, and it seems that sometimes, not due 

to our own fault, we have not had the resources to do what we need 

to do. So we want to—we will take a serious look at what you have 

done here, what your request is, and look forward to getting—getting through this. 

At this time, I will recognize Mr. Brady, the Ranking Member, 

for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, but the Ranking Member 

has answered my only question about the two-thirds/one-third, 

making sure it is divided up equally. Thank you. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Sure. 

The CHAIRMAN. We will now recognize Mr. Davis for 5 minutes 

for any questions that he may have. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Madam Ranking Member. 

You know, just—if you could, if you could get more resources for 

any possible reason, are there anything that you—is there anything you may have left out in the budget request that you would 

want to do if you were able to get extra resources, especially in the 

oversight? 

Mr. CHABOT. Yeah. Thank you for asking that question. We take 

our oversight responsibilities very seriously. We have a new Chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight, Trent Kelly from Mississippi who has a tremendous background in this area. He is also 

a colonel in the Guard, and we discussed this, and there is a whole 

range of things that we would like to go into. And obviously, you 

know, we have a new administration here, and it happens to be the 

same party I am in, but we are going to go after any—anything 

here that we think needs to be investigated to make sure that 

small businesses are getting the best end of the deal here. 

And we—the two of us here are committed to doing this, for the 

most part, in a bipartisan manner. When we found—we found challenges that were—that needed to be looked into in the Obama administration, we looked at them very carefully. We did that—we 

both—I have been on the Committee for 20 years now, and I think 

Nydia has been on there maybe a couple of years longer than that, 

so we have gone after both administrations. 

And so, wherever there are problems, if we can have efficiencies, 

we are going to look at those things to make sure that the American taxpayer is getting the best bang for his or her buck. 

Mr. DAVIS. One more question. Your Committee asked in your request for an increase in your travel budget, a pretty substantial increase. Are there plans to do field hearings, issues like that would 

require more travel that you didn’t use in 2016? 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you for asking that question. Yes, we have 

had field hearings. We haven’t scheduled everything out yet, but 

we have done field hearings in both Democratic and Republican 

districts. We did one with—and there were three Democratic MemVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00083 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
82 

bers, Nydia as well as—there were two others. I am trying to remember who they were. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Grace Meng. 

Mr. CHABOT. Grace Meng, and there was one other one that 

showed up at that hearing in—— 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yvette Clarke. 

Mr. CHABOT. Yes, Yvette Clarke, yeah. So we did them there, we 

did them at Carlos Curbelo’s district, Steve Knight’s district in 

California. We don’t fly first class, by the way, when we go to these 

kinds of things. I am always back in coach with the rest of my fellow American citizens when it comes to these kinds of meetings 

and things. 

So, yes, we do intend to hold field hearings and which we will 

be going through things like access to capital, tax reform, depending on when the repeal and replace of the Affordable Care Act/ 

Obamacare, whichever terminology one prefers, that is going to be 

ongoing, because some of these things will happen soon, some a little further down the road. 

So anything that we think needs to be looked into, we certainly 

intend to use the resources to the Committee’s advantage and to 

the American taxpayer’s advantage. 

Ms. VELA ́ ZQUEZ. If I may, you know, our Committee, the resource, to not only the Members of the Committee, but other Members, who wants to organize events in their districts. So our staff 

are very helpful to help them try to organize those events. But also, 

it is important for our Committee to conduct hearings in different 

States of the country, because not every small business have the 

capacity or the resources to come here to Washington. So it is important that we go to those areas to listen to them. 

Mr. CHABOT. And if I could just follow up Mr. Davis with just 

one other point. I mentioned that we did a field hearing in Ms. 

Vela ́zquez’s district in New York, and some other Members came. 

When she was the Chair of this Committee, she came to my district 

as Ranking Member in Cincinnati, too. I understand she may have 

got a little grief from the leadership, because I was on the target 

list at that time, but she came, and I think it shows a real bipartisan point of view on her part, and these were hearings that we 

had that were significant. 

We did them in an urban African-American neighborhood, we did 

them down in the Over-the-Rhine, where there has been a lot of 

new markets, tax credit, and rehabbing going on down there. So 

these weren’t just fluffy kind of hearings. These were substantive 

hearings that were held. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, thank you. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. 

Mr. DAVIS. I appreciate your responses. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. I now will recognize 

Mr. Loudermilk. I believe Mr. Smith will pass. Okay. Mr. 

Loudermilk, 5 minutes. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be brief. Just 

looking at the very moderate increase that you are asking for indicates to me that you must manage your budget very well, especially with the amount of workload we have got going forward. 

83 

My question, Mr. Chairman, are these skills something you 

learned through our mentorship program? I mean, how important 

do you feel that program really is? 

Mr. CHABOT. Just for those who may be wondering where that 

question is coming from. Mr. Loudermilk was my mentee and I was 

his mentor when he first came to Congress, and I think he will— 

he will acknowledge that I was a tremendous mentor, I think. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. I can honestly say you were the absolute best 

I have ever had since I have been in Congress. 

Mr. CHABOT. And now he is following in that line of leadership 

because he is now a mentor, so I hope that answers your question. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. It does. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. Thanks again. We 

appreciate your time. We will study this and look forward to being 

back in touch with you. Thank you so much. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Brooks 

and Ranking Member Deutch of the House Committee on Ethics. 

Would the official reporter please enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

84 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Ethics, your Committee is tasked with oversight of all bills, resolutions, and other 

matters related to the Code of Official Conduct. Its primary focus 

is to enforce policies relating to the House rules. 

I want to welcome the Chairman and Ranking Member, and I 

will now recognize Chairman Brooks for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. SUSAN W. BROOKS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA 

Mrs. BROOKS. Good afternoon, Chairman Harper, Ranking Member Brady, and the Members of the Committee. Thank you for providing Ranking Member Deutch and myself an opportunity to 

speak with you today about the ongoing work of the Ethics Committee. With your indulgence, we will do our best to answer your 

questions, although as you may know, much of our work is confidential. 

And the House has tasked the Ethics Committee with interpreting, advising, and enforcing the rules of conduct that pertain 

to House Members, officers, and employees. The Committee undertakes that task through three different offices, three different parts 

of the House Ethics Committee, advice and education, financial disclosures, and investigations. 

The Ethics Committee is solely unique amongst House committees in that it is the only committee that is evenly divided between 

both parties. The Committee is also the only Committee in the 

House where there is neither a Republican or Democratic staff. Our 

staff is nonpartisan. 

As a Member of the Committee for the past 4 years, I have 

grown to admire and appreciate the nonpartisanship and the integrity of the staff of the Committee as they work to administer the 

functions of the Committee. Oftentimes, any publicity about our 

Committee’s work surfaces only when there have been allegations 

of misconduct by a Member or a staffer that have been aired. 

What is often not publicized is just how much work the Committee and the staff performs to help ensure Members and staff 

abide by the rules. We often only hear when the rules are being 

alleged to have been broken. And how many Members and their 

staff actively seek out the Committee’s advice to ensure their conduct is above reproach. 

I would like to share with you some of those statistics to highlight the amount of work the Committee conducts. In the 114th 

Congress, the Committee responded to nearly 55,000 informal telephone calls, emails, and in-person meetings from Members and 

their staff seeking guidance on the Ethics rules. This number actually increased by nearly 15,000 from the previous Congress. 

The Committee provided nearly 900 written advisory opinions regarding proposed conduct. The Committee also approved 3,900 requests for privately sponsored travel, and it received nearly 16,000 

financial disclosure statements and amendments, and also received 

and reviewed 3,000 periodic transaction reports. 

These numbers, while they are quite high, are actually very encouraging to me. I believe it illustrates the large majority of House 

Members do want to and work hard to abide by the rules, and do 

want to serve their constituents with the highest regard to ethical 

85 

rules. I also believe it shows how much the work of the Committee 

continues to increase each Congress. 

When I came to Congress 4 years ago, I wanted to do everything 

possible to try to restore some confidence in Congress, restore the 

public’s trust. The Ethics Committee has a tremendous role to play 

in accomplishing that goal. As Chairwoman, I truly believe that 

one of the values of the Ethics Committee lies in its ability to continuously seek new avenues to ensure that the House community 

is educated regarding the laws, rules, and regulation that govern 

its conduct. 

And I brought a copy of the House Ethics manual to just remind 

the Committee how many rules there are that the House Members 

and staff must abide by, and they are complex, and it is vast. Also 

we have a highlights version, kind of the primer book, but there 

are a lot of rules to follow. 

Ranking Member Deutch and I share a commitment to making 

the Committee more accessible to Members and their staffs 

through more direct communication, such as periodic tips about 

common questions the Committee is asked. We are talking about 

a more mobile-friendly website, and simply educating Members on 

the services the Committee offers, and I hope it is by doing so we 

have less need to utilize that third function of investigations. 

Just as Members and staff can trust and rely on the fact that 

members of our staff who serve on advice and education will conduct themselves is in professional and nonpartisan manner, they 

can also trust and rely on the fact that Members who serve on our 

investigations committee conduct themselves in the same way. 

So my colleagues on the Committee and the staff that serve the 

Committee solemnly undertake review of allegations regarding misconduct. It is a serious responsibility, and I have seen our Committee and our staff do so in a very professional way. 

In the 114th Congress, the Committee dealt with 78 investigative 

matters, only 14 of which were carried over by the 113th Congress, 

because we have a commitment to resolving matters quickly. So we 

were able to cut in half the number of investigations that carried 

over. 

One other fact I would like to highlight regarding investigations 

is of the 64 matters initiated by the Committee, less than a third 

were referrals from OCE. The others were—two-thirds were as a 

result of Committee-initiated investigations. Thank you for the opportunity to speak, and I look forward to your questions. 

[The statement of Mrs. Brooks follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairman Brooks. And I now will 

recognize Ranking Member, Mr. Deutch, for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. THEODORE E. DEUTCH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thank you, Chairman Harper, Ranking Member 

Brady for the opportunity to be here today to speak about the vital 

work of the Committee on Ethics. I am pleased to be here with 

Chairwoman Brooks. We are new to our roles as Chair and Ranking Member, but have previously served together on the Ethics 

Committee, and I look forward to continuing our work together, 

and we hope to continue in the model set by our previous Chairs 

and Ranking Members, Chairman Conaway and Chairman Dent, 

and Ranking Member Sanchez, follow that model in working together in a bipartisan way. 

The Chairwoman described some of the ways that the Ethics 

Committee is unique. We know it is something that you, Chairman 

Harper, a former Member of the Committee, and our colleague, 

Representative Lofgren, former Chair of the Ethics Committee 

know firsthand, but I think it is fair to say that all of us know that 

ethics in government and the integrity of our Nation’s elected officials remains a grave concern to the public, as it should. 

In the House, the Committee on Ethics has the responsibility for 

administering and interpreting the various standards of conduct 

that apply to Members and staff in helping them to understand 

and comply with those standards. In addition, when it is alleged 

that a Member or staff person has violated one of those standards, 

the Committee is charged with determining whether a violation occurred, and if so, recommending an appropriate sanction or other 

remedial action. 

You invited us to talk about the Committee’s budget needs. The 

overwhelming majority of the Committee’s modest budget is spent 

on salaries for our nonpartisan professional staff, so we are focusing today on providing you with more information about how our 

staff serves the entire House. 

The Chairwoman noted some statistics about the scope of the 

Committee’s work in the last Congress providing advice, education 

and training to Members and staff of the House. All of those statistics and a detailed overview of the Committee’s work are available 

in a 210-page report that the Committee filed with the House, this 

report, in early January. It is also available on the Committee’s 

website ethics.house.gov. 

The Chairwoman provided some background as well about the 

Committee’s investigative work. Although the Committee can begin 

an investigation after receiving a formal complaint, a self-reporter 

or referral from the Office of Congressional Ethics, the majority of 

the Committee’s investigations are begun on its own initiative. 

Although the Committee is probably best known for its critical 

investigative work, just as vital is the significant work of our talented nonpartisan staff to provide advice and education to House 

Members and staff. This outreach is particularly important with respect to new Members. This Congress and last, each of the last two 

Congresses has seen more than 50 new Members. 

90 

As in prior years, our Committee was pleased to partner with 

your Committee to provide ethics training to incoming freshmen 

Members during the orientation session that you organized in November. We will continue to look for opportunities to educate all 

Members about the rules and standards of conduct that apply to 

them as public servants in the House. 

In short, we would like to build on the Committee’s existing advice and education efforts to provide more information to help more 

Members on a more timely basis. All of the Committee’s work that 

we have summarized for you is made possible by our terrific nonpartisan professional staff. And as you consider funding for the 

Committee, please keep in mind that modest investments in recruiting and retaining the highest caliber ethics professionals for 

the Committee returns great dividends to the House and to the 

American public. 

I know that other Chairmen and Ranking Members who have appeared before your Committee today have noted their committee 

staffs have a high proportion of lawyers because of the nature of 

the Committee’s work. It is also true of the Committee on Ethics, 

but our attorneys also play a unique and a very important role in 

serving not just the Committee, but the entire House. And when 

any of our colleagues or any House employee calls the Committee 

on Ethics with an urgent advice question, we want to ensure they 

continue to get the best and most timely guidance possible. 

Similarly, it is imperative that the Committee is able to retain 

and recruit talented and experienced investigative attorneys who 

can help us resolve investigative matters thoroughly, fairly, and expeditiously, so the House and public can remain confident in the 

work that we do. Our staff who are not attorneys also play essential roles supporting the work of the Committee. It has been a 

pleasure getting to know the talented and nonprofessional staff in 

the last two Congresses, and I am looking forward to working with 

them as Ranking Member. 

We thank you again for the opportunity to appear before your 

Committee today and look forward to answer any questions you 

may have for us. 

[The statement of Mr. Deutch follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thanks to both of you for being here and giving 

this testimony. I did, indeed, as you noted, have the privilege to 

serve not quite two full terms, because I came in, I think, around 

May of my first year, and it is a privilege, and it is—probably 

Rules and Ethics are the two most necessary and thankless jobs 

that you can—that you could do in the House, and, so, I thank you 

for the work that you are doing. 

I know firsthand what a great staff you have, and I know that 

it is a staff that really wants to help the Members do right. And 

Congress, as you know, the one thing—the old adage does not 

apply here, ask—better to ask forgiveness rather than permission. 

Not here. You want to know on the front end that it is okay to do 

it before you step off into a real problem. 

I do know also how well this Committee functions as the only 

evenly numbered committee in the House, and in my experience 

was that almost every situation, we got to unanimous vote, that 

they look—the Members looked past what party it is you are concerned with, so I commend you for the job you are doing, and we 

look forward to working on that. 

One question I do have is, I noticed you held up the House Ethics 

manual, which has a rather old date on it. Are there plans when 

we might be printing a new edition to that? 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. You 

are right. This edition is from 2008. It has not been revised since 

then, and prior to that, it was in 1992, and so that is in our plan 

for this Congress is to begin that process of revising and updating 

the House Ethics manual, so this actual 115th Congress. 

Mr. DEUTCH. And as the Chairman referred to earlier in her testimony, we would also like to make it more accessible so that we 

don’t have to rely just on that book, but people will actually be able 

to have all of the standards of conduct on their mobile devices as 

well. 

The CHAIRMAN. That sounds great, and obviously, it is also—it 

is always good to have people like your staff that you can go to and 

ask that question about how does this work. You know, sometimes 

we would rather have somebody tell us or reply to an email request 

or letter, and so, I want to commend you for the job you are doing, 

and we will look forward to looking at your request here. 

At this time, I will recognize Mr. Brady for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. For the record, this is the only time I 

want to be face-to-face with the both of you. But every time we address new Members, I always tell them to make sure to either 

come in front of us when they have a question or come in front of 

the Ethics when they have a question. A lot of times they are a little bit afraid or leery to come in front of Ethics, but they do come 

in front of us, come to me. 

And I do go to your staff people. And they are professional, they 

are courteous, and they understand. And as the Chairman said, it 

is much better to ask at that particular time for permission instead 

of having to at a later time ask for forgiveness. 

But you do a great job. You do a great service to the House. I 

only wish and hope that a lot of us, myself included, would use 

your services. And if that would happen, I think it would keep a 

94 

lot of us on the straight and narrow rather than falling off to the 

wayside for a moment or two. 

And I have to say something I probably shouldn’t say, but this 

other ethics committee, so-called, whatever their names are, the 

advocate committee or whatever, I am not too happy with them because they brought a lot of our Members up in front of them and 

found out that there was nothing there before they come in front 

of you. But in that process, our Members have to get representation, and representation costs money. And it is a shame that they 

bring some frivolous suits because anybody can bring a suit against 

anybody over an accusation. 

And I would like for you to look into that, or we all should look 

into that, having to pay those legal fees, and maybe we should put 

something in if they bring something frivolous, then maybe they 

should be responsible for legal fees. There is a law, Dragonetti— 

I am not a lawyer, but I know a little bit about the Dragonetti 

case—that I think that they should be able to recover some of those 

legal fees, not in front of you, in front of this advocacy committee 

that we have. 

But thank you for your service. And, again, I continually tell new 

Members and old Members, former Members even, that they 

should come in front of you and get a ruling, that it is in confidence 

and it is confidential and you do honor that, and we appreciate 

that. Thank you. 

Mrs. BROOKS. If I might, Chairman? 

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, if you would like to respond to that, Chairwoman Brooks. 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you, and thank you Ranking Member 

Brady. 

We have a new Chair of what is called the Office of Congressional Ethics, OCE. Doc Hastings, former Member from the State 

of Washington, has just agreed to be the new Chairperson of the 

independent body, working with the Ranking Member, David 

Skaggs. And Doc Hastings, who actually I realize when I brought 

this book, was responsible for the rewrite of this ethics manual. He 

is a former House Ethics Chairman himself. And so he is very familiar with how the House ethics process works. 

He wants to improve the process between OCE and between our 

Committee. I believe there is room for improvement. So I am hopeful. We plan to sit down with the, as the new Chair and Ranking, 

we plan to sit down with them in the very near future to figure 

out how we can work in a very positive way moving forward, making sure that, again, Members are held at the highest standards, 

but that there also is due process for Members and/or staff who are 

brought before OCE. And we think there are some improvements 

that can be made to the process, and we are committed to working 

on that. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. That increases my standings on what we 

are doing here. Doc Hastings is a friend and he is an ethical and 

a very decent human being. And I am really glad, my confidence 

will be restored in that. Thank you. 

Mr. DEUTCH. I would just add to that, again, as I said before, the 

majority of our investigations are begun by the Committee, but we 

understand that there have been some concerns raised by some of 

95 

the Members about the operations of the Office of Congressional 

Ethics. To the extent that there are any clarifications to the process or anything else that happens, obviously and most importantly, 

all of that will be done in both a transparent and a bipartisan manner. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Brady yields back. 

I now recognize the Vice Chairman of the Committee, Mr. Davis, 

for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Madam Chairman, the Ranking Member. It is always 

great to see one of my fellow freshman colleagues a few terms back 

elevate to this Chairmanship. And we are very proud of you, 

Susan, and we know you are going to do a great job. 

I noticed you have asked for level funding once more for the 

Committee. If other, more resources were available, what could you 

use them for? 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you for the question. 

I have certainly spoken with the staff, and if there is one area 

that we would like to improve upon, it is the amount of advice and 

education we provide and the timeliness of the advice and education. And so if there were to be additional resources, right now 

we have two open spots, so we are not completely full at the 

present time. 

But if there were additional resources, we have talked and 

agreed that we continue to need to do more outreach and maybe 

in some new ways to Members, some new training mechanisms or 

maybe new training modules to educate staff and Members about 

the importance of not just following the rules, but the pitfalls in 

some of the rules and some of the things people need to be familiar 

with that aren’t necessarily commonsense and very well known. 

And so I would say the advice and education staff is where we 

would focus. But we would always want to leave the opportunity 

in case there should be an incredibly significant investigation of a 

large number of Members—and all I would say is, God forbid that, 

we hope that does not happen. And that is because if we do a great 

job in advice and education, we can keep the amount of investigations down because people will understand the rules maybe better 

than they currently do. 

But we would like the opportunity to return to the Committee if 

we needed to plus up even the investigative staff if we didn’t have 

the resources that a new massive investigation might require. But 

I would say currently it would be to focus on beefing up our advice 

and education staff, resources, and maybe even technology. 

Mr. DAVIS. Okay. Well, I appreciate your willingness, especially 

in the advice and education section. I helped lead a review of our 

spending policies in the House last year, and we held numerous listening sessions with this Committee and other Members from 

throughout the House. And many of the questions that we took in, 

Madam Chairman, actually related to advice that would have been 

given through the House Administration Committee or the House 

Ethics Committee, and sometimes that advice was not similar. 

And part of the results, the positive results of that review were 

with your predecessor addressing maybe more use of joint pink 

sheets so that we are all on the same page, because we are going 

96 

to get asked the same questions on this Committee that you are 

going to get asked and we ought to be able to have the same responses. 

Now, a big frustration of mine too is the fact that we see House 

rules change, and we are waiting for Ethics guidance on how to implement those changes. And I know in one instance we are not getting any guidance on that rule change, and that makes it frustrating for somebody like me to be able to explain how is this happening and what can we do to make sure that we get that guidance 

out. 

So if it is an increase in your budget that would allow you to 

have more opportunities to look those over, please do let us know, 

because we all want to work in conjunction with you, and we truly 

appreciate the job you and your team do. 

So with that, I yield back. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Well, if I may, Mr. Chairman, and likewise, Mr. 

Vice Chairman, to the extent that the Chair or I can be helpful on 

these matters, please, you should always feel free to reach out to 

us. And, in fact, we have been having conversations about these 

pink sheets and the fact that some good number of our colleagues 

I suspect aren’t altogether either up to date or even familiar with 

pink sheets. One of the things that we hope to accomplish is to provide, is to make sure that there is greater access to the information 

that comes out of our Committee on a timely basis. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, thank you, Mr. Deutch. And this is where, I 

think, our Committee and your Committee need to work in conjunction with each other, because we can help educate the rest of 

the Members and their staffs on many of the changes and the advice that you are getting through the pink sheet process and 

through working with us. 

We don’t need to be two silos, and I think that was the message 

that we got out of our Members during that review process, and it 

is something that we worked on with Chairman Dent. And we 

would love to see it continue under the leadership of both of you, 

and we stand willing to work with you. 

I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

I now recognize Mrs. Comstock for 5 minutes. Okay. She will 

pass. 

And now Mr. Smith, any questions? 

I want to thank you both for coming, and we want to thank you 

for this, job because this is one of those things you can’t talk about 

what you are doing. Sometimes the media has no idea what you 

are doing—hopefully they don’t, because it is supposed to be obviously very personal and not to be divulged. But it is an incredible 

amount of paperwork and hours, and we recognize that job that 

you are doing and we want to thank you for that and look forward 

to working with you. 

Thank you. 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairwoman Foxx 

and Ranking Member Scott of the House Committee on Education 

and the Workforce. Would the official reporter please enter a page 

break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

97 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Education and the 

Workforce is tasked with oversight of education for students, as 

well as workplaces for working America. Its primary focus is to 

maintain and create commonsense solutions regarding Federal education and labor policy. I want to welcome Chairwoman Foxx and 

Ranking Member Scott, and at this time the Chair recognizes 

Chairwoman Foxx for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. VIRGINIA FOXX, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA 

Ms. FOXX. Thank you very much, Chairman Harper, Ranking 

Member Brady, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the 

opportunity to appear with my colleague, Ranking Member Bobby 

Scott, to testify about our budget request for the 115th Congress. 

I want to give a special thanks to Dianna Ruskowsky and Elizabeth Podgorski for their hard work on putting together this budget. 

They really have done a fantastic job, and I appreciate it so much. 

I am going to move as quickly as possible to be brief here. The 

work of the Committee on Education and the Workforce touches 

practically every aspect of American life. In that light, we have proposed a fiscally prudent budget that will allow the Committee to 

advance bold legislative and oversight agendas while continuing to 

serve as trusted stewards of the resources we have been given by 

the American public. 

The Committee respectfully requests a modest 2.9 percent budget 

increase for the 115th Congress. The request will allow the Committee to improve access to high-quality education for students and 

provide Americans safe and productive workplaces, as well as ensure the policies and programs under the Committee’s jurisdiction 

are efficient and effective. 

The Committee will help advance a significant number of legislative priorities this Congress, including delivering a stable, patientcentered ObamaCare alternative, reauthorizing the Higher Education Act, addressing the needs of at-risk youth and juvenile offenders, reining in the runaway Department of Labor and National 

Labor Relations Board, protecting small businesses and the men 

and women they employ from flawed rules and regulations, and 

strengthening retirement security, to name a few. 

The Committee also will conduct vigorous oversight ensuring the 

Federal bureaucracy administers laws responsibly and as Congress 

intended. The Committee will work on examining the nearly two 

dozen laws within our jurisdiction with authorizations that have 

expired or will soon expire. Everything we do will focus on holding 

the Federal Government accountable for how it spends taxpayers’ 

hard-earned money. 

Additionally, Committee activities will support and complement 

a number of relevant priorities of the new administration. To enhance the Committee’s legislative and oversight efforts, we will 

pursue a robust schedule of hearings in Washington, D.C., regional 

field hearings, and relevant site visits to hear directly from affected 

parties and see firsthand the challenges facing our schools and 

workplaces. 

In order to execute the Committee’s robust legislative and oversight workload, as well as a renewed focus on Member services and 

98 

coalitions outreach, the Committee must be properly staffed. In 

previous years we have maintained lean staffing levels. However, 

it is evident that additional staff, as well as staff retention, are 

needed to enhance the Committee’s institutional knowledge and 

productivity. 

The American people expect us to ensure that Federal policies 

support and do not undermine their ability to pursue a lifetime of 

success and prosperity. Personally, my reputation for frugality is 

well-deserved, which is why we commit to spending each dollar we 

are allocated efficiently and effectively as we do the work the 

American people send us to do. We respectfully ask the committee 

to take these factors into account as you consider our budget request. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I appreciate your time, 

and will be happy to answer any questions. 

[The statement of Ms. Foxx follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx. 

We will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Scott, for 5 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ROBERT C. ‘‘BOBBY’’ SCOTT, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF VIRGINIA 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Chairman Harper, Raking Member 

Brady, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the Committee with Chairwoman Foxx to 

discuss the budget of the Committee on Education and the Workforce. 

Let me first thank Chairwoman Foxx for her leadership in developing our Committee budget and thank her and her staff for working so closely with my staff in this effort. I fully support her request for the 115th Congress, which represents, compared to other 

budget requests you have heard today, a fiscally prudent, modest 

2.9 percent increase over the last Congress. With this request, I 

know the Committee will be able to carry out its activities, both 

legislative and oversight, in a robust and efficient manner. 

Per past practice, one-third of the budget will be allocated to the 

minority, and I appreciate Chairwoman Foxx’s commitment to continuing this custom and providing the minority with the autonomy 

over that allocation. This modest increase in our budget will allow 

the minority to continue its work with a high level of expertise and 

professionalism. I have placed a high priority on ensuring the staff 

is diverse, highly educated, and credentialed. As the policy and 

legal workplace continues to be highly competitive, it is key that 

we attract, train, and retain talented staff who are knowledgeable 

and capable of delving into a wide array of complex issues facing 

the Committee. 

Although our Committee has jurisdiction over many of the most 

partisan and divisive issues, during the last Congress we were successful in producing several bipartisan authorizations that became 

law: the Every Student Succeeds Act, the Older Americans Act, and 

amendments to the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act. 

The Committee reported and the House passed several higher education bills, career and technical education reform, and juvenile 

justice reform. I am eager to continue the work in a bipartisan 

manner, as I know the chairwoman is. 

Our Committee has a robust agenda this year as well. We have 

been active at the full Committee level and subcommittee level, already holding hearings on issues within the Committee’s jurisdiction, and we have been called on on floor action as well. In fact, 

two resolutions that are being debated as we speak are within the 

Committee’s jurisdiction. 

As we look ahead, we expect to engage in reauthorizations of the 

Higher Education Act, Head Start Act, and Child Nutrition Act. 

And I hope we can finish the work we started on CTE and juvenile 

justice, as I mentioned earlier. Completing all of these authorizations in Congress is a tall order, but I believe that we can be successful, and your support for this request will assist in that. 

For the minority, we believe that it is our responsibility to engage in comprehensive oversight for programs within our jurisdiction, such as in the areas of civil rights, Federal student aid, workVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00103 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
102 

er safety, fair pay, and retirement security. We are committed to 

carrying out this work in addition to our legislative responsibilities 

with the resources provided to us by asking our staff to take on 

more and be as efficient as possible in doing so. 

So I join Chairwoman Foxx in asking the Committee to support 

our request and provide the Committee on Education and the 

Workforce with sufficient funding to do the quality of work the 

American people deserve and that will help strengthen America’s 

working families. 

Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I yield back the balance of my time. 

[The statement of Mr. Scott follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions. 

I just want to thank you both for being here, for the work that 

the Committee does. It is a very complex area that not just anyone 

can walk in and start working on. So I commend your staff for 

their knowledge level that they have. 

One thing that we are trying to make sure of is that we keep in 

mind that we are a coequal branch of government, that we have 

to function in the way that we need to, and there have been times 

it seems we have turned some of that authority over where we 

should retain it. 

So when you look at the list that you have for the reauthorization of so many things, not just the big ones that you mentioned, 

but a lot of other ones that have to be authorized for this year or 

for this Congress, it is going to take a lot. So I know this, and I 

do understand that, Chairwoman Foxx, and I am sure you as well, 

Ranking Member Scott, that this is something that you take the 

money seriously and you use it wisely, as has been proven by your 

track record here. So we will take a good look at it and see where 

we are. 

At this time I will recognize Mr. Brady, the Ranking Member, for 

5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I have heard both of your testimonies. It seems to me you do 

work well together. I just need to ask for the record the Ranking 

Member, the one-third, two-thirds is in operation, it is working? 

I appreciate it. Thank you for the job you do for the American 

people. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Anyone else on our side have any questions they 

care to ask? 

Seeing none, I just want to thank you for this. I appreciate the 

information that you have provided. It is detailed enough we can 

look at. I understand, you know, looking at the travel budget request where you plan to do more work out, that I think really helps 

take us to where those issues are. 

And so thank you for your hard work. We will be back in touch. 

Thank you. 

Ms. FOXX. Thank you very much. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Brady 

and Ranking Member Neal. Would the official reporter please enter 

a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

107 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Ways and Means is 

tasked with oversight of revenue and related to issues such as tariffs, reciprocal trade agreements, and the bonded debt of the United 

States. In addition, the revenue-related aspects of the Social Security system, Medicare, and social services programs are under the 

Committee’s jurisdiction as well. 

I want to welcome Chairman Brady and Ranking Member Neal. 

And the Chair now recognizes Chairman Brady for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. KEVIN BRADY, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. Chairman Harper, Ranking Member Brady, 

Members of the Committee, I am here today to present the proposed budget for the Ways and Means Committee for the 115th 

Congress, and I am joined by our Ranking Member, Congressman 

Neal. So thank you for having us. 

I would like to start today by offering my congratulations to 

Chairman Harper for being selected to lead the Committee on 

House Administration. You have done tremendous work. It is great 

to see you leading this. Your Committee serves an essential role in 

ensuring the House functions in the efficient, accountable, and 

transparent manner that the American people deserve. Chairman 

Harper and Ranking Member Brady, thank you both for your leadership in fulfilling that vital responsibility. 

As the Committee considers our budget request, I ask that you 

please keep a few important things in mind. First, the vast jurisdiction of the Ways and Means Committee. Secondly, our ambitious 

agenda for the 115th Congress, which is focused on addressing several major challenges facing our Nation. Finally, our strong track 

record of legislative accomplishment and efficient use of taxpayer 

resources. 

In my opinion, the staff of the Way and Means Committee on 

both sides of the aisle are among the brightest and the hardest 

working on Capitol Hill. They are tasked with handling an incredibly large workload at an incredibly fast pace. They do it day in 

and day out with remarkable effectiveness. 

Our Committee’s jurisdiction includes tax, international trade, 

health care, Social Security, Medicare, and welfare. We also have 

a constitutional responsibility to conduct oversight of the administration of our Nation’s tax laws. In total, our jurisdiction covers 

more than half of all mandatory spending, all revenues, and the 

debt limit. 

The efforts of our Committee will be front and center during the 

115th Congress as we work with the President and our Senate colleagues to advance a pro-growth agenda that helps Americans from 

all walks of life. It is essential that our Members and staff have 

the resources needed to do their jobs to the best of their abilities. 

This is especially true as relates to two critical agenda items, progrowth tax reform and repealing and replacing the Affordable Care 

Act. 

These are historic opportunities, but they are also massive undertakings. We are committed to delivering the results Americans 

deserve on tax reform and health care, and to do this we are reVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00109 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
108 

questing resources for a handful of additional staff dedicated specifically to these historic efforts. 

Along with our work on tax and health care, our Committee will 

also be pursuing a pro-growth trade agenda that helps our businesses and our American workers compete and win around the 

world. Additionally, we will continue taking actions on solutions to 

help more families permanently escape poverty. 

Many of our agenda items for this year and next year will build 

off the legislative progress and the accomplishments of the last session of Congress during which our Committee was highly productive. Last Congress, we held a combined total of 69 full Committee 

and subcommittee hearings, held 8 organizational meetings and 22 

markups. And during these 22 markups, we passed and sent 92 

bills to the House floor. 

If the numbers alone are not enough to show the kind of record 

we have in the Committee, consider how historic some of these bills 

were. 

The PATH Act provided American families and job creators with 

more than $600 billion in permanent tax relief. This bipartisan bill 

also brought an end to the counterproductive and retroactive tax 

extenders process. 

The Trade Facilitation and Trade Enforcement Act, also bipartisan, provided our Nation with the strongest trade enforcement 

powers in modern history. 

And the American Manufacturing and Competitiveness Act, another bipartisan measure, provided critical tariff relief for our manufacturers so they can grow their businesses and create local jobs. 

These bills, all of which passed with strong bipartisan support, 

were just 3 of 35 Ways and Means bills which became law during 

the last session of Congress. 

Finally, it is important to note all these legislative successes 

were achieved while using our Committee’s taxpayer-provided resources in the most efficient and effective way possible. One example is how we have continued to modernize the Committee’s printing process by making more of our publications available electronically but not in print. This has eliminated waste, reduced cost, and 

helped us make Committee publications which are vast, related to 

the Tax Code and other matters, as transparent and accessible to 

the public as possible. 

As for the Committee Democrats’ budget, we propose to continue 

our tradition of allocating one-third of the Committee’s budget and 

staff to the minority. These resources can be deployed as they see 

fit with no interference from the majority. That has long been our 

practice on the Ways and Means Committee, and we will continue 

it during the 115th session of Congress. 

In closing, I again want to thank you, Chairman Harper, Ranking Member Brady, all the Members of the Committee, for your 

time and consideration. I do want to mention as well, as we head 

into healthcare and tax reform, the critical role of the Joint Committee on Taxation for us to do our job. And I will look forward to 

answering your questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Brady of Texas follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairman Brady. 

I now recognize Ranking Member, Mr. Neal, for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. RICHARD NEAL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS 

Mr. NEAL. Thank you, Chairman Harper and Ranking Member 

Brady and Members of the Committee. 

We are in support of the Ways and Means Committee budget 

submission which requests a modest increase in our Committee allocation. We have consulted as this budget was being developed 

and had the opportunity for input. 

As you can see, the largest part of our funding is dedicated to 

salaries, with the rest going toward telecommunications, publications, water filtration service. Despite seeing a slight increase in 

our funding levels last year and in the last Congress, we still rely 

heavily on House-negotiated contracts with publication vendors. 

The Committee on Ways and Means has been tasked with a 

broad area of jurisdiction that includes tax, trade, and entitlement 

reform. While we differ from our Republican colleagues in our 

Democratic agenda, I believe that Chairman Brady and I can agree 

that the bulk of the legislation in this body comes from the Committee on Ways and Means. 

What is apparent by the expenses incurred in the last Congress 

is that if more cuts are forthcoming, this Committee cannot operate 

without cutting core legislative work. In fact, given the likelihood 

of both tax and health reform, an increase in the Committee’s 

budget commensurate with this increased legislative work would 

certainly be appreciated. 

So I am pleased to report that the Democrats will have full control over one-third of the Committee’s share of the budgeting, and 

I hope that you will consider these facts when you make your determination. 

[The statement of Mr. Neal follows:] 

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114 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

And we recognize you have some major items on your Committee 

plate for this Congress, and there is a lot that has to be done. And 

we are also trying to keep in mind that there are coequal branches 

of government, and we have given up some of that authority over 

the years, and we want to make sure that we have and the committees have what they need to function. It certainly has been the 

Speaker’s wish that the committees would do their job and giving 

you that opportunity and the means to do that. So we will look at 

the request carefully. 

And I will now recognize Mr. Brady for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, but the Ranking Member 

has answered my question about the one-third, two-thirds, and I 

appreciate that. 

But one additional side note. Hey, Brady, use your first name, 

will you? When you were in Philadelphia, it is all I heard, was, ‘‘I 

was meeting with President Trump.’’ Now I don’t mind meeting 

with him, but the press were killing me. So will you please use 

your first name and quit getting me in trouble? 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. Yes, sir, Mr. Ranking Member, who by the 

way, the integrity of the Ranking Member is unquestioned, so 

when one of my early paychecks went to Mr. Brady’s office, it was 

promptly returned, just so you know. So thank you. 

Mr. BRADY. But one other thing now. I said I will mail it to your 

house. He said, ‘‘No, no. Don’t let my wife see it.’’ 

The CHAIRMAN. Was that off the record, by the way? 

Thank you very much. 

I now recognize the Vice Chair of the Committee, Mr. Davis, for 

5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Chairman Brady, I don’t know if he would return that 

check today. 

It is always great to have you in front of us, and I want to commend you because last year you allowed Members of other committees to come in and testify and talk about some of the issues that 

were very important, those of us who don’t serve on your Committee, and they were issues under your jurisdiction. As we move 

ahead and we have some major issues in front of us and in front 

of your Committee, is that a process that you are looking at continuing? 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. Yeah, we love this. So we had Member days 

in both tax reform and health care. We are going to continue those 

because, look, our conference has remarkable ideas, and we want 

to hear them. We want to be able to move those bills through regular order, which I love the fact it has been reestablished. We have 

more accountability, more openness. There is a process for everyone 

to weigh in. And so, yes, sir, we intend to continue that across our 

broad jurisdiction. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, I appreciate that, and I know a lot of other 

Members on other committees do too. And, frankly, I know other 

committees are looking at following that lead, too, so that was 

something that was very well noticed. 

You have got a lot of issues in front of you with new legislation 

and new ideas. Do you think that is going to impact your oversight 

115 

responsibilities? And if you were to be able to get any more funding 

than what you even requested, what would you use it for? 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. So our request right now is focused on tax 

and health care. Our tax staff is actually smaller than it has been 

in past years. And so the request there is just to pull it up for this 

historic responsibility we have in this session. The same with our 

health staff as well. 

The rest, we are going to continue oversight. We have very aggressively with the IRS. In fact, the IRS accountability in the last 

year was very successful. And I think one of the key parts of that 

was the bipartisan work that was done with Mr. Lewis and Mr. 

Roskam on civil asset forfeitures, when the IRS seizes the assets 

of small businesses who are innocent, you know, who did that, one, 

we think wrongly. But then because of the pressure bipartisan, we 

forced them to go back many years and start weighing those decisions and actually began the process of returning that money in a 

bipartisan way. 

So we are going to continue our aggressive oversight in all areas. 

Mr. DAVIS. You would use any possible extra funding for more 

oversight? 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. So I think we are fairly level there. I will 

double check. 

April, on the oversight? 

Yeah, I think we are good. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you. 

And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

Does anyone else have any questions they would like to ask? 

Mr. Smith, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SMITH. A previous questioner here touched on these issues 

a little bit. But in terms of tax reform in a historical context, can 

you perhaps give a little more detail as to how heavy a lift just the 

supporting work that will be taking place might be? 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. So it has been 30 years since America has 

looked at completely redesigning its Tax Code. As you would imagine, it has tripled in size since President Reagan last conducted tax 

reform. It is incredibly complex. 

And so while we have worked 5 years as a Committee to get to 

this point, a very intense effort last year, rewriting the text of that, 

also key to CBO and Joint Tax. Putting these policies forward, the 

listing we do to make sure that this very bold approach, the mechanics, design, and transition right, it is a stunningly complex and 

intensive process. And our tax writers spend a good part of each 

day writing the text, reviewing these major changes, because the 

Tax Code, as you know, is just stunningly complex. 

And health care, frankly, is no less of an undertaking. These are 

two historic reforms happening at exactly the same time. 

Mr. SMITH. Obviously, the topics being discussed in the public 

square these days, regardless of where one might come down on either side, or a number of sides to a particular issue. Can you perhaps, either one of you or both, reflect a little bit on the Committee 

work that needs to be done regardless of a particular advocacy position? 

116 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. Well, it does. So a couple thoughts. Look, 

we may have differences on health care in certain areas, but we 

have found some very productive ways to make improvements in 

Medicare, Medicare Advantage, in a bipartisan way, working together over the last session. I anticipate that to happen going forward as well. 

Oversight also has found bipartisan ways to work together, also 

time-intensive as you are dealing with the IRS and the Tax Code 

there as well. And trade, as we engage in a new administration, 

which, frankly, they want to engage both the Republicans and 

Democrats in this trade agenda, these consultations start this week 

and next and accelerate. 

And then overall, look, I think where we hope there could be bipartisan support is on getting people out of poverty, I mean, really 

helping people grab that first rung of the economic ladder. That is 

a big challenge with 80 different programs tied to that. 

And so our workload from a complexity standpoint, I would say, 

is as tough as any, and I am absolutely confident we are going to 

do our job and deliver on those. The resources we have asked for 

we think are fair but critical. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Neal. 

Mr. NEAL. Thank you, Mr. Smith. Thanks for the question. 

As to the institutional network of the Ways and Means Committee, I think we all share a great sense of pride in having the 

opportunity to serve there. And I also, as Kevin just mentioned, 

how difficult it is to do tax reform. Bill Archer was a friend of 

mine, took the gavel in 1995 and said that he was going to pull the 

Tax Code up by its roots, he was going to drive a stake into the 

heart of the Tax Code, and we were going to change it fundamentally. 

Well, here we are in 2017, and there is broad agreement on the 

Committee as to what is wrong. There is less agreement as to the 

path forward. 

I think to reiterate a point that the Chairman made a moment 

ago, was that we found a way forward on the PATH Act. That was 

a longstanding series of issues that many of us had more than a 

passing interest in seeing come to a concrete solution when we did 

that. 

But I do think that Bill Archer’s words, dating back to 1995, or 

Chairman Rostenkowski’s words—and just by way of institutional 

framework, I went to the Committee when Mr. Rostenkowski was 

the Chairman. So it is not as though these issues have just come 

up. And I frequently point out to people, if they were easy, they 

would have been done. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

Again, thank you, Chairman Brady, Ranking Member Neal, for 

being here, and we look forward to working with you. 

Mr. BRADY of Texas. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Shuster 

and Ranking Member DeFazio. Would the official reporter please 

enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

117 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure is tasked with the oversight of the Department of 

Transportation, the U.S. Coast Guard, and the Army Corps of Engineers, among many others. Its primary focuses are matters relating to all modes of transportation, as well as national infrastructure, such as water management, economically depressed area development, and federally owned real estate. 

I want to welcome Chairman Shuster and Ranking Member 

DeFazio, and the Chair now recognizes Chairman Shuster for 5 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. BILL SHUSTER, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 

Mr. SHUSTER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is always 

great to come before your Committee, especially when the Committee appears to be stacked in our favor, two T&I Members and, 

of course, a fellow Pennsylvanian. So I feel pretty good about being 

here today. We won’t mention Nebraska, unless Penn State has 

beaten them recently. 

Mr. SMITH. But only if that is the case. 

Mr. SHUSTER. Exactly. I am glad you pointed that out. 

No, seriously, I appreciate having the opportunity to be here in 

front of you. Thank you for what you do and making sure that the 

House operates in an efficient manner and with the funds necessary to achieve our goals. 

Our goal in this Congress is to build upon the successes that we 

had in the 114th Congress and be responsible stewards of the 

public’s tax dollars as we work to rebuild or build the 21st century 

infrastructure. 

Last Congress, the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee 

passed 56 public laws and concurrent resolutions. We moved 104 

bills through the House, held 54 hearings, 12 markups, and 12 

Committee field hearings and meetings outside the beltway. We 

initiated 34 GAO and inspector general oversight reports and audits. 

Among the laws we passed last Congress were large, complex 

pieces of legislation, including the Fixing America’s Surface Transportation or the FAST Act, the Water Infrastructure Improvements 

for the Nation Act, the WIIN Act, Protecting our Infrastructure of 

Pipelines and Enhancing Safety Act, the PIPES Act, and the Coast 

Guard Authorization Act. These bills became law because we were 

able to build a consensus and get things done for the American 

people. We could not have accomplished any of this without the 

support of the Committee on House Administration. So thank you 

very much for that support. 

Even with all these successes, there is still more work to do. Not 

only must we oversee the implementation of the laws that we 

passed last Congress, we also must lay the groundwork for the future. Our population will move towards 400 million people over the 

next couple of decades, and that infrastructure must be ready to 

physically continue to unite the people of this country. With your 

support the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee will be 

poised to help our Nation meet those needs. 

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We must build a 21st century infrastructure for America which 

will include reauthorization and reform of the Federal Aviation Administration, a Water Resources Development Act that keeps Congress on a 2-year cycle addressing America’s water infrastructure, 

and an authorization of the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other Federal programs to improve disaster response, reforms to the General Services Administration to help save billions 

of Federal dollars, and a bill to authorize the U.S. Coast Guard to 

ensure it has the resources, vessels, and technology it needs. 

Finally, we are prepared to roll up our sleeves and work with the 

new administration and other congressional leaders on an infrastructure package that will reassert America’s greatness by ensuring we remain competitive in the global marketplace. 

In everything we do, the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee will continue to ensure the American people’s tax dollars are 

put to good use. To help us achieve our goals, we request a modest 

budget increase to ensure we have the necessary oversight and infrastructure specialists. 

Recognizing the reality of our constrained budgetary climate, 

Ranking Member DeFazio and I have together developed a bipartisan budget that implements this agenda. We have important objectives, but I believe with our dedicated Members and with your 

support, we can meet this. 

So, again, I thank you very much for having the opportunity to 

be here today, and I yield back. 

[The statement of Mr. Shuster follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I now recognize Mr. DeFazio, the Ranking Member, for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. PETER A. DEFAZIO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OREGON 

Mr. DEFAZIO. I thank the Chair. Thank you for having us here 

today to discuss our budgetary needs in the coming Congress. 

I think the Chairman summarized things pretty well, and I am 

not going to bore the Committee by repeating all of the legislation 

that we must pass in the coming Congress, but there are several 

very important, large items. Obviously, the Federal Aviation Reauthorization. The Chairman has us, for the first time that I can remember, we are doing Water Resources Development as the law 

would require, every 2 years. And we have Coast Guard and others 

coming up. 

The administration has talked about potential for a trillion dollars of investment. Now, not all of that would be under our jurisdiction, but I believe a substantial portion of that would fall under 

our jurisdiction, between the WRDA and surface transportation 

and FAA. So we are anticipating a very busy year. 

And I think the Chairman and I have worked out that we have 

requested three additional staff to help with oversight and anticipated additional workload with the administration on a very ambitious infrastructure agenda. So I am hopeful that the Committee 

can look favorably upon that. 

With that, I yield back the balance of my time. 

[The statement of Mr. DeFazio follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

Thank you each for your testimony. There are some incredibly 

important things that your Committee is going to be tasked with 

for this Congress. We want to make sure that you have got the resources that you need to do that job. We have looked at what your 

request is. We will certainly give that careful consideration. 

One thing I have said to the other Chairs and Ranking Members 

has been that we have a constitutional role to play as a body, that 

we have coequal branches of government, and some of that we 

seem to have let kind of slip away over the years. And we want 

to make sure that we do our job and we do it in the way that we 

have. 

And we are dependent upon the committees. The Speaker has 

made it clear he expects the committees to do their jobs and be 

equipped to do that. And your challenges that you have are really 

very many in how we are going to come up with the funding, how 

we are going to oversee the things that you have in your jurisdiction, and we will look forward to working through this process with 

you. 

At this time, I will recognize Mr. Brady, the Ranking Member of 

the Committee, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I did hear how you have cooperation together, but I have to ask 

the Ranking Member for the record, is the one-third, two-thirds 

working, is that working out in your Committee? 

Mr. DEFAZIO. I would look upon the one-third, two-thirds apportionment with much more favor were we in the majority. 

Mr. BRADY. Me too, sir. 

Mr. DEFAZIO. However, the administrative travel budget and 

other things that we split, I mean, they are just a function of the 

Committee. So it is the personnel staffing that is the one-third, 

two-thirds on our Committee. And I have a very good staff and 

they are adequate to do the job, not optimal, but adequate, and we 

can make do with it. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. 

And, Mr. Chairman, many years ago when you came in front of 

us the first time as the Chairman, I told you, you had big shoes 

to fill. In my opinion you haven’t filled them yet. Tell your dad I 

said hello please. 

Mr. SHUSTER. Yeah, he will remind me when he sees me of that. 

The CHAIRMAN. I now recognize Mr. Davis, the Vice Chairman of 

the Committee, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, it is an honor 

to serve with you on this Committee, and I am going to do nothing 

to jeopardize my status on that Committee with questions today. 

But your T&I Committee has shown me what a committee can do 

when you work in a bipartisan way, similar to the House Administration Committee, too. 

I really appreciate the oversight responsibilities that our Committee takes very seriously. And the question I would have, I have 

asked others here before, is if we were to get access, if we had the 

ability to give you more than what you have requested, what would 

you possibly use it for so that we could understand any more positive impacts the T&I Committee could make? 

126 

Mr. SHUSTER. Great question. I think that our request reflects 

what my answer to that is going to be. We want to add more oversight staff because it is a big job, especially the legislation that we 

have passed and what we are looking at passing, not only the last 

Congress but the Congress prior to that, making sure the administration is doing what we intended under the law, making sure the 

timelines are hit. 

So it is a huge job for us, and that is where we are spending the 

bulk of that increase request, to put more staff on to have just that 

function be increased. And to add to that, we have got a new administration that we have got to make sure we are helping to educate them to what we are trying to do, what we have done as we 

move forward. So it is oversight mainly. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you. 

Mr. DeFazio. 

Mr. DEFAZIO. I would just echo the Chairman’s remarks. I mean, 

as you see from our list, we have a very busy legislative agenda. 

Some of it will be issues of first impression dealing with this administration, which will be a tremendous amount of work, but just 

reauthorizing the programs that we mentioned keeps the staff very 

busy. 

And essentially we are trying to ask them both to keep up with 

a quick and very heavy legislative burden and, oh, in your spare 

time, we want you to be doing oversight. So having more staff to 

focus on oversight I think would be really critical. 

Particularly we go back to a number of things we did in the 

FAST Act that we would like to oversee. We put in some environmental streamlining. Has it been adopted yet or not? How is it 

working and implemented? And can it be instructive to any legislation that we might do this year in surface? We just had the FAA 

in today, and I would note that some things that we have required 

of them have not been implemented. Same with PHMSA, pipeline 

and hazardous safety materials agency. And then over in Federal 

Railroad Administration. 

So we really would very, very heavily utilize some additional investigative staff to see whether the will of Congress is being followed by the current administration, the past administration mostly at this point, and find out pressure points where we need to 

push them. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, thank you. 

And I yield back the balance of my time, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

I would now recognize Mr. Smith for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. 

In the oversight vein, I mean, take an issue like Waters of the 

U.S., it is in the courts right now, do you anticipate Committee action on that or the need that might be reflected in operations? 

Mr. SHUSTER. Last Congress we actually passed something. 

Wasn’t complete agreement on the Committee. But I think the 

Committee is in agreement that there needs to be a rule, it needs 

to be clarified how it goes about doing that for debate within the 

Committee. But being that it is in the courts, we are sitting here 

waiting for that to happen. But my view is when the time comes, 

127 

when it is necessary, when Congress needs to act, we are happy 

to—— 

Mr. SMITH. Within a typical workload? 

Mr. SHUSTER. Excuse me? 

Mr. SMITH. Within a typical workload then for the Committee? 

Mr. SHUSTER. Yes. 

Mr. SMITH. Okay. Thank you. 

I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

I want to thank the Chair and Ranking Member for being here 

with us. 

Any final comments before we close? 

Mr. SHUSTER. Yes, if I may? 

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, please. 

Mr. SHUSTER. This is the third time I have been here and the 

third time I have ended with this. As somebody that has an office 

now in Rayburn and traveled the halls of Rayburn, I would just encourage the Committee that that building is a very complicated 

building to get around, and quite frankly, if you don’t know exactly 

where you are in the Rayburn Building, you don’t know where the 

hell you are. 

So I would encourage, as I have done in the past, a simple thing. 

And I think Bob Brady and Peter DeFazio redoes his own boat, so 

the three of us could figure out how to stencil on the walls which 

street side we are on, Independence Avenue, C Street, to give us 

some point of view reference. I think that would not only help 

Members of Congress, especially freshman Members of Congress, 

but the public to be able to tell where the heck they are when they 

are in the Rayburn Building. So I will continue to beat that drum 

until you tell me not to come back anymore. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I am able to find 

my way back to my office in Rayburn, we will give that proper consideration. 

I want to thank all the Chairs and Ranking Members that have 

appeared today for their testimony, and also thank the Committee 

Members for their participation. 

I now recess the hearing. The Committee will reconvene subject 

to the call of the Chair, and we will reconvene at 10:45 tomorrow 

morning. 

[Whereupon, at 3:52 p.m., the Committee recessed, to reconvene 

at 10:45 a.m., Thursday, February 16, 2017.] 

(129) 

COMMITTEE FUNDING FOR THE 115TH 

CONGRESS (DAY 2) 

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2017 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:50 a.m., in Room 

1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Gregg Harper [Chairman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Harper, Davis, Comstock, Walker, 

Smith, Loudermilk, Brady, and Raskin. 

Staff Present: Sean Moran, Staff Director; Kim Betz, Senior Advisor; Bob Sensenbrenner, General Counsel; Max Engling, Franking Director; George Hadijski, Director of Member Services; Erin 

McCracken, Communications Director; Nick Hawatmeh, Member 

Services Counsel; C. Maggie Moore, Legislative Clerk; Dan Jarrell, 

Staff Assistant; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; Matt Pinkus, 

Minority Senior Policy Advisor; Eddie Flaherty, Minority Chief 

Clerk; and Kim Stevens, Minority Financial Director. 

The CHAIRMAN. I now call to order the continuation of the Committee on House Administration hearing on Committee funding for 

the 115th Congress. The hearing record will remain open for 5 legislative days so that Members may submit any materials they wish 

to include. A quorum is present, so we may proceed. 

I want to thank my colleagues on this Committee, as well as the 

Chairs and Ranking Members who are here today to provide testimony on the individual budget requests. As I said yesterday, our 

Committee has worked to find the right balance over the years, and 

our goal is to do that again for this Congress. Today’s testimony 

will be used to draft a budget resolution that sets funding levels 

for each Committee. The resolution will ultimately be considered by 

the full House. 

I also want to take a moment to thank the staff of all of our 

House Committees, both Republican and Democrat, who worked together in a very timely and cooperative manner to organize the information that each Committee has presented to House Admin. 

I would now like to recognize my colleague and Ranking Member 

of the Committee, Mr. Brady, for the purpose of providing any 

statement he chooses. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, but I have no statement. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, sir. 

We will now hear from our first panel of witnesses for the day. 

The Committee now welcomes Chairman Hensarling and Ranking 

Member Waters of the House Committee on Financial Services. 

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Would the official reporter please enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

131 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Financial Services is 

tasked with oversight of the Federal Reserve, the Treasury Department, and the Securities and Exchange Commission. It also oversees banking, insurance, financial aid, and housing, among others. 

I want to welcome Chairman Hensarling and Ranking Member 

Waters. And the Chair now recognizes Chairman Hensarling for 5 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JEB HENSARLING, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. HENSARLING. Thank you, Chairman Harper, Ranking Member Brady, and members of the Committee. I am pleased to appear 

before you today. I certainly believe Congress must lead by example in matters of budgeting, especially at a time of historically high 

deficits and debt. So you have tough decisions to make about budgeting limits and priorities and balance, as we do. 

To help in this effort, I am here to explain our Committee’s jurisdiction, priorities, and discuss how we plan to use valuable resources of the taxpayers to better serve them, serve consumers, and 

serve the members of our Committee. 

As you mentioned, and as you know, the Financial Services Committee has jurisdiction over the entirety of the U.S. financial system. This includes the banking system, our capital markets, housing, insurance, monetary policy, and international finance. So from 

Main Street to Wall Street there are few financial transactions that 

are not impacted by the policies considered in this Committee. 

Among the many agencies we oversee are the Federal Reserve, 

the Securities and Exchange Commission, Housing and Urban Development, the CFPB, and many components of the Treasury Department; banking and credit union regulators, such as the OCC, 

the FDIC, and the NCUA; entities created by the Dodd-Frank Act 

such as the OFR, the FSOC, FHFA, the PCAOB, the MSRB, SIPC, 

FASB, FINRA, and others. 

Our 34 Republicans and 26 Democrats and committed staffers, 

whose salaries comprise the vast majority of our Committee’s budget, work to make sure that the agencies falling within our jurisdiction treat the taxpayers’ dollars with the respect they deserve because, after all, it is not Washington’s money, it is the taxpayers’ 

money. 

As I testified in prior Congresses, just like every American family 

has had to prioritize their spending, so have we. We have trimmed 

costs in a number of different ways, including delaying important 

IT investments and staffing hires. 

At the same time, Mr. Chairman, we believe that we have given 

taxpayers good value for their money. The vast majority of the 88 

bills we marked up made it to the floor in this last Congress. Thirty-six bills were signed into law, increasing economic opportunity 

for everyday Americans and strengthening our financial system. 

Building on our success, the 115th Congress is set to be our busiest yet. The 2008 financial crisis, as we all know, was the worst 

since the Great Depression, and Congress’ response, the 2,300-page 

Dodd-Frank Act, is the most dramatic change in our Nation’s financial regulatory system since the New Deal. Every pocketbook and 

wallet in America is impacted by it, from families trying to buy or 

132 

sell a home, to single moms purchasing groceries with their credit 

cards. 

But while major laws like the Affordable Care Act span across 

three committees, our Committee oversees almost the entirety of 

Dodd-Frank’s implementation. This year the Committee will advance several important pieces of legislation related to the DoddFrank Act designed to create economic opportunity and protect the 

financial system from future shocks, and obviously work with our 

administration that has called for increased legislation in this area. 

We look forward to finally ending taxpayer-funded bailouts in 

too-big-to-fail financial institutions and looking to streamline regulations in our community financial institutions so that consumers 

can have greater access to loans and other financial services. 

We are also undertaking legislation that would reform the Federal Reserve and reauthorize and modernize the National Flood Insurance Program. 

We also, importantly, will work to reform our Nation’s mortgage 

finance system. Regardless of the merits or attributes of DoddFrank, it failed to do so. Recognizing that the current governmentdominated system of mortgage finance cannot be sustained, our 

Committee will advance proposals so that consumers can choose 

mortgage products that best suit their need, and ensuring that government-sponsored enterprises like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac 

never again threaten the economy or threaten taxpayers with bailouts. Also, Mr. Chairman, again, this is one more area where the 

administration has called for legislative action. 

Additionally, following the 50th anniversary of HUD’s creation, 

we will tackle the unfinished work of welfare reform by developing 

proposals to bring hope and opportunity to the neighborhoods that 

need it most, and will examine how to bring welfare-to-work principles to our Nation’s housing problems. 

Finally, we have created a new Subcommittee on Terrorism and 

Illicit Finance to investigate the financial support networks of national security threats. We hope to provide appropriate staffing resources as the new subcommittee begins its important work. 

In closing, the Financial Services Committee is hard at work on 

the priorities of the American people. We have already moved three 

bills through the House, one of which has already been signed into 

law by the President. With additional resources, we will be well positioned to secure economic opportunity and financial independence 

for the hardworking taxpayers and consumers we serve. 

We thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today, Mr. 

Chairman. 

[The statement of Mr. Hensarling follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairman Hensarling. 

The Chair will now recognize the Ranking Member for the Committee on Financial Services, Ms. Waters. 

You are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MAXINE WATERS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much. 

Good afternoon, Chairman Harper and Ranking Member Brady. 

I am pleased to have the opportunity to testify before you today to 

discuss the budgetary needs of the Financial Services Committee. 

As Ranking Member of the Financial Services Committee, I believe that it is critical that the Committee receive an increase over 

its funding level for the 114th Congress. The minority receives onethird of the staff slots and total budget, with total control over both 

categories. At the beginning of the 113th Congress, the Committee 

sustained a 13 percent cut to its budget. We were able to weather 

the impact of that cut by limiting new hires and allowing for the 

natural attrition of staff. 

At the beginning of the 114th Congress, the Committee received 

a 1 percent increase in its funding. While we appreciated the additional funds, a larger increase is needed given the mission of the 

Committee and the scope of its issues that will be confronting it 

this Congress. Chairman Hensarling has made what I believe to be 

a very fair request for additional funding that will put our Committee on par with other Committees of similar size and exclusivity. I fully support his request. 

I must note that the Financial Services Committee is an exclusive Committee. However, our funding is less than that of other exclusive Committees, even though our issues are no less complicated, no less critical. In fact, I would argue that our issues are 

more complicated and touch the lives of all Americans. Our Committee is at the forefront of addressing the complicated derivatives 

market, critical consumer issues, monetary policy, banking rules 

and regulations, and the Nation’s housing policy. These are important issues. 

My Chairman has indicated that in addition to aggressive oversight of many laws and agencies under the Committee’s jurisdiction, he will also be moving major legislation. Of note, he will soon 

be introducing legislation to replace the landmark Dodd-Frank Act 

with his Financial CHOICE Act. Now, while I disagree with the 

legislation that he is proposing, I agree that such a comprehensive 

rewriting of our Nation’s finance laws requires substantial resources in the form of experienced policy staff. 

We must also reauthorize the National Flood Insurance Program, 

that is NFIP, whose authorization expires at the end of September. 

The Chairman has also expressed an interest in completely revamping the Nation’s housing finance system. 

All of these legislative endeavors are highly technical, extremely 

complicated, and vitally important, and they all require sufficient 

resources in order to best serve our respective Members, caucuses, 

and taxpayers. 

Moreover, the Chairman has created a new Subcommittee on 

Terrorism and Illicit Finance. This Subcommittee requires addiVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00142 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
141 

tional resources in order for the members on both sides of the aisle 

to be properly informed. The issues covered by this Subcommittee 

are highly complex and critical to our Nation’s fight against terror 

and require highly experienced staff with backgrounds in the Bank 

Secrecy Act and the PATRIOT Act. 

We also require an expert researcher on staff so that we can 

delve deeply into the aforementioned issues and quickly provide 

Members with accurate facts and statistics. 

At the beginning of the last Congress, our Committee rules were 

revised in order to grant our Chairman unilateral subpoena authority. The majority has used this authority and has several ongoing 

investigations. I anticipate the continuation of these investigations 

and the initiation of new investigations by the majority. 

The House has also given our Committee the authority to conduct staff depositions. Given that it was the will of the House to 

give the Committee this new authority, it should be the will of the 

House to provide additional funding to help the Committee to properly use this authority. 

Again, the amount the Chairman has requested is a very fair increase that would result in a very significant positive impact on our 

Committee’s operations, especially given the new powers that the 

Committee has been given. The issues faced by the Financial Services Committee are highly complex, highly complicated, technical, 

and can be at times controversial. The requested increase in funding for the Committee will improve our ability to conduct the appropriate oversight of these issues and protect the American taxpayers. I hope that you will give full consideration to our funding 

request. 

Thank you. I yield back. 

[The statement of Ms. Waters follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady yields back. 

I want to thank each of you for being here. Good detail in the 

testimony. The creation of the additional subcommittee certainly 

has been explained. We are in a situation where we want to make 

sure that we indeed have coequal branches of government. And it 

has been very difficult for the House to do its job unless you have 

the proper resources to do. I know you have an Oversight Subcommittee. 

And so the issues that you have are very complicated. We recognize that. And we will take a good look at this and try to make 

the proper decision as we make our way through. 

At this time I will recognize the Ranking Member of the Committee, Mr. Brady, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Just to the Ranking Member, the one-third, two-third agreement, 

is that working out with your Committee? 

Ms. WATERS. Yes, it works out very well. We do discuss with the 

Chairman some of—on some other things he has been very generous in responding to us. I think with the appropriate resources 

he will be even more generous. 

Mr. BRADY. Okay. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Anyone else have questions they would like to 

ask? 

We thank you for coming. Appreciate it. 

Ms. WATERS. You are welcome. 

Mr. HENSARLING. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Thornberry and Ranking Member Smith of the Committee on Armed 

Services. Would the official reporter please enter a page break into 

the hearing record to begin a new section. 

152 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Armed Services is 

tasked with oversight of military operations, the Department of Defense, and the Department of Energy, among other areas. Its primary focus is to maintain and create common sense solutions regarding defense policy. 

On behalf of the Committee, we want to welcome Chairman 

Thornberry and Ranking Member Smith. And at this time the 

Chair recognizes Chairman Thornberry for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MAC THORNBERRY, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. THORNBERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And with your permission, I would like to submit a written statement for the record. 

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection. 

Mr. THORNBERRY. Mr. Chairman and Members, thanks for having us. And I want to say I particularly appreciate the Ranking 

Member who also serves on our Committee. So he can correct anything that I don’t get quite right. But we are glad to have him. 

Mr. Chairman, I thought I might make just a few comments that 

are not reflected in my written statement. And let me just start 

with our mission. Article I, section 8 of the Constitution says it is 

Congress’ responsibility to provide and maintain, build and support, and write the rules and regulations that govern the military 

forces of the United States. A lot of folks think that all comes from 

the Pentagon and we kind of look over it, but actually the Constitution says it is our job. 

And that job that we as an institution have to do has to happen 

in one of the most complex, dangerous security environments any 

of us have ever seen. And currently we have got to do so with a 

military that has been damaged severely because of CRs, sequestration, the pace of operations, and a variety of factors that we all 

have some responsibility for. 

So I think it is just important to start with: What are we doing 

here? And our Committee, as well as the Defense Appropriations 

Subcommittee, have primary responsibility for fulfilling that mandate that the Constitution puts on our shoulders. 

So that is kind of where we have to focus right now, partly to 

repair the damage that has been done in the military. We had a 

hearing, for example, last week with the Vice Chiefs of Staff, who 

reported that half of the planes in the Navy cannot fly today; that 

3 out of the 58 combat brigades in the Army are available to fight 

tonight, 3 out of 58; and the Air Force is short 1,550 pilots and 

thousands of maintainers. And, again, the list goes on. 

So repairing the damage is a key part of what we have to do. The 

other part is reform. We have got to get more value for the taxpayer dollars. We have to make the Department of Defense more 

agile to respond to this complex environment. 

So over the last couple years we have instituted a new retirement system for the military—and this is all, by the way, in the 

defense authorization bill. We have made major changes in military 

health care. We have revamped the commissary system. We have 

made organizational changes at the Department of Defense. We rewrote the Uniform Code of Military Justice. We have made a number of changes in acquisition. And we have much more work to do. 

153 

And so I just think it is important to keep in mind the scope of 

what our responsibility is. We authorize about half of the discretionary budget of the United States Government. 

And it is also an opportunity for Members to legislate. For example, last year there were 1,259 provisions that were sent to conference. The conference report that came back from the Senate had 

961 provisions in it. Between the Committee and the floor, we dealt 

with about 700 amendments. 

So it is an opportunity for Members to legislate. But, obviously, 

all of that puts responsibility on our shoulders. And it is a responsibility, obviously, that we have fulfilled for 55 straight years. But 

I don’t know that we have ever had a more challenging environment in the last 55 years if we are to succeed at rebuilding, repairing, and continuing our reforms. 

So, Mr. Chairman, what we are asking for this year is funding 

to be able to fully staff to our authorized level. We have an authorized number of people, but we haven’t had the money to hire that 

many to meet that need, to, for the first time in I think 7 years, 

give COLAs to our Committee staff, as well as merit pay, and then 

to undertake some of the technology needs. And we can talk more 

about some of those specifics if you would like. 

Last point, which is related to people and technology, is most of 

the work we do—much of the work, probably most—is in a classified environment. Now, that adds operational costs, it limits who 

we can hire. But it also just reminds us that out of all these classified programs, we are the only oversight the executive branch has. 

Unless there is a leak, the press shouldn’t be dealing with all of 

these classified. 

So it is on our shoulders. We have got to dig deep into these programs. We need the best people. And, frankly, we need more assistance in order to do the job the Constitution puts on our shoulders. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Thornberry follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Chairman Thornberry. 

Now the Chair will recognize Ranking Member Smith for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ADAM SMITH, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON 

Mr. SMITH of Washington. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. I appreciate the chance. 

I agree with everything the Chairman said. The depth of the job 

of putting together the defense authorizing act every year is enormous and contains all the things that Chairman Thornberry pointed out. And we have, I believe, the largest Committee, the most 

Members on the Committee of any committee in Congress. So the 

staff has to handle all of that input. And, you know, what Chairman Thornberry, those were the proposals that went into the bill. 

There were thousands more that were suggested that our staff has 

to sort through and try to figure out. 

So it is a huge responsibility, and the issues are very complex, 

and we are incredibly dependent upon our staff. And it is the budget that you allocate to us that allows us to hire them and pay them 

and keep them. And I think that is the most important part of my 

testimony, is the importance of our staff, the need for high quality 

staff, the need for them to be compensated. 

And also to understand, as the Chairman pointed out, over the 

course of the last 6 years it has been a difficult time. He mentioned 

the difficult time that has been in funding defense with the CRs, 

one government shutdown. You know, no consistency of budgeting. 

But that also applies to how it has impacted our staff. It has been 

a few years now, but actually we had to have unpaid furloughs for 

a number of our staff, and we have reduced the number of the 

staff. 

So bottom line is I agree with the Chairman that we would love 

to be able to staff to our authorized level, because the work we do 

here is very important. And not only do we have all the members 

of the Committee, but national security issues are something that 

are important to just about every Member of Congress. So we take 

an enormous number of requests from people who aren’t on the 

Committee. 

Handling all of that is difficult. We have great members on the 

Committee. But there is no way we are up to it without the incredible expertise that comes from our staff. So we would just ask for 

the funding so that we can continue to do that job and hopefully 

make it 56 straight years. 

And with that I am happy to yield and take any questions you 

might have. 

[The statement of Mr. Smith of Washington follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. I would like to thank both of you for your testimony. I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes. 

You know, one of our issues that we look at as you come before 

us and look at your budget request is to realize that we do have 

through the Constitution coequal branches of government, yet we 

have handicapped ourselves on being able to do that job. And we 

have to make sure that you are equipped to do what is, in effect, 

authorizing half of our discretionary budget, in effect. It is a major 

undertaking. And I agree that there is not a more complex time in 

my lifetime than what we are in the middle of right now. 

So we will look at this and be sure that we have got it right. And 

we appreciate your working together on presenting this to us. 

And I will now recognize Mr. Brady for 5 minutes for any comments or questions he may have. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, I have been on this Committee for 18 years, and 

the best part about it is we don’t have any Democratic staff, we 

don’t have any Republican staff. These men and women behind 

them sit behind me. And it doesn’t matter, you can go to any one 

of them, and any one of them will always give you the proper information. They are totally professional. 

And naturally I would like to thank our Chairman and Ranking 

Member, Chairman, for being here, but most importantly the staffer. I am pretty hard to handle from time to time. I am always asking a lot of questions. Right, Paul? But they always answer correctly. 

I have got one thing, though, Mr. Chairman. I want to let you 

know that they send out a card every time we have a major markup, and in that card they ask you what would you want. I keep filling out lobster and filet, and I keep getting sandwiches and pizza. 

I mean, maybe you shouldn’t even send a card out anymore. But 

I don’t mind that. The only thing I do mind is the midnight snacks. 

If we can get done before midnight, I think I would give my Chairman a case of beer. 

So thank you both for being here. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

Now anyone else have questions on our side? 

I want to thank you for being here. We will look at this carefully. 

And if we need any follow-up, we will be in touch. But thanks for 

your effort. Great work the Committee does. Thank you. 

Mr. THORNBERRY. Thanks. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman Roe 

and Ranking Member Walz. Will the official reporter please enter 

a page break in the hearing record to begin a new section. 

168 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs is 

tasked with oversight of veterans programs, examining current 

laws, and reporting bills and amendments to strengthen existing 

laws concerning veterans and the Department of Veterans Affairs. 

I want to welcome Chairman Roe and Ranking Member Walz. 

And the Chair will now recognize Chairman Roe for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. DAVID P. ROE, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TENNESSEE 

Mr. ROE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Brady, 

for the opportunity to discuss the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs’ 

budget for the 115th Congress. And Ranking Member Tim Walz 

joins me here today. 

We submitted our funding request for the 2017 per your Committee’s guidance. And as you know, the Committee has oversight over 

the entire Department of Veterans Affairs, various programs serving veterans at the Department of Labor, Defense, Arlington National Cemetery, and our overseas cemeteries, as well as other matters. 

VA is the second-largest Federal agency, employing over 360,000 

people with a budget just south of $180 billion this fiscal year. In 

fact, over the last 10 years, VA has seen a budgetary growth of 

nearly $100 billion and employee growth of nearly 140,000 employees. To put that in perspective, the number of employees added to 

the VA roles in just 10 years is roughly equivalent to the population of my home town of Clarksville, Tennessee. 

Needless to say, oversight of such a vast, growing Department is 

critical. Ensuring effective stewardship of taxpayer dollars is essential. Waste of those dollars is unacceptable. Recognizing this, Congress has more than doubled the budget for the VA inspector general over the last 10 years. Although the VA IG’s additional scrutiny is necessary and welcome, it is no substitute for effective congressional oversight. 

Just before I became Chairman, I was stunned to learn that the 

budget of our Committee was slightly lower in 2016 than it was 10 

years ago. Further, even with much appreciated increase in last 

year’s Congress, the Committee’s budget ranks 20th out of 23 

House Committees. A cursory review of the House Committee 

budget relative to the size of Federal agencies they oversee shows 

an imbalance with respect to our Committee, one I am hoping you 

will help us remedy. 

We owe it to veterans and taxpayers to ensure VA is making 

marked progress regarding veterans’ access to health care, wait 

times at hospitals and clinics, the efficient operation of the Choice 

Program and any successor program, the backlog of disability 

claims, and the on-time and underbudget delivery of hundreds of 

millions worth of annual procurements, including construction 

projects and a myriad of other issues. 

To accomplish this mission, the Committee needs the requisite 

staff expertise. On our majority staff we currently have four investigators. With additional resources, the Committee could hire an 

information technology investigator to oversee VA’s $4.5 billion annual IT budget. Just to give you an example, Mr. Chairman, 86 

169 

percent of that budget is spent on just keeping the current system 

working, not adding new things. 

In the very near future, the VA must make a multibillion-dollar 

investment either by upgrading existing legacy systems, purchasing new systems, or a combination of the two. Having the staff 

expertise to guide the Committee’s oversight on this topic is crucial. 

The Committee also needs an additional healthcare investigator 

and a senior health policy expert. And just to show you, Mr. Chairman, this is an investigation right here I saw 2 weeks ago from 

Memphis, Tennessee, just one hospital that we have to oversee. 

With more than 1,700 sites of care nationwide, numerous whistleblower complaints, and major reform of the healthcare system on 

the horizon, these skill sets are critical to our oversight and legislative efforts. Accordingly, we are requesting a $500,000 increase in 

the Committee’s annual personnel budget. Relative to the size of 

the primary agency the Committee oversees and its massive growth 

in recent years, I hope we can all agree that this is a modest investment to make. 

Finally, at this time we are not requesting additional resources 

for Committee travel or equipment needs. With the budget allotted 

for the travel, the Committee has independently been able to conduct spot investigations of whistleblower complaints at various VA 

facilities across the country. These investigations are essential in 

establishing an accurate picture of events on the ground relative to 

what we are being told here in Washington. 

Ours is a small Committee tasked with a humbling responsibility: making sure we keep the promise to our Nation’s warriors 

and their families. Mr. Chairman, you have my assurance that we 

will continue to account and stretch for every dollar afforded us 

and we meet and exceed expectations—we hope we can. It is my 

humble request of you and the Ranking Member and Members of 

the Committee that we build on the oversight success of the Veterans’ Committee last Congress with these small but important additions to our budget I have outlined. 

I thank you for this opportunity to be here today. And now I 

would like Mr. Walz say a few words also. 

[The statement of Mr. Roe follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank you for your testimony, Chairman Roe. 

And we will now recognize Ranking Member Walz for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. TIMOTHY J. WALZ, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA 

Mr. WALZ. Well, thank you, Chairman Harper and Ranking 

Member Brady, for the opportunity to appear before your Committee and support this proposed budget for the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs. 

I am pleased to join Chairman Roe to support the budget, and 

we approached this like we do almost all things in our Committee, 

in a truly bipartisan manner, in looking out for what is in the best 

interest of our Nation’s veterans. 

The Chairman eloquently told you what our responsibility is. We 

do have a very small budget in relationship to the responsibility we 

have, the number of sites that are out there. 

And I can attest also the Chairman’s statements on, as we have 

increased our oversight ability, we have seen results. We have seen 

positive results for our veterans. We have seen positive results for 

the taxpayers. But the staff that we have are working at full capacity. 

Much is going to be expected of us as we move forward. The 

Chairman clearly articulated that. Our care of the 22 million veterans in this country will only continue to increase. We will need 

to address the necessary actions to reform the manner in which VA 

delivers health care, both inside and in the community as we move 

towards a hybrid model. We must also contend with the growing 

backlog of appeals for VA benefits claims and ensure that VA is 

properly managing replacement of its aging IT infrastructure. 

I think that in itself alone, that the IG and Chairman Roe, as 

we work together on the Subcommittee there, always ask for increases to the IG. But it is our responsibility, our responsibility as 

Congress. And if we don’t have the resources nor the staff to be 

able to provide that oversight, there is a gap there. 

And this Committee has proven time and time again to be good 

stewards of the taxpayer dollars, to have effectiveness in what we 

do, and to get real change. I remind folks that it was the ability 

to listen to whistleblowers as they brought them forward, both on 

Phoenix and St. Cloud, Minnesota, Tomah, Wisconsin, those ended 

up in this Committee. They were investigated. And we are seeing 

positive movement in the right direction. 

That is good governance. It can’t be done without professional 

staff. It can’t be done without the budget necessary. 

I would also like us to think about, and as the Chairman is right, 

there has been an increase in the budget. There has been an increase in veterans. 

We also have a hiring freeze, that while it doesn’t impact all of 

the VA, is something we need to think about and manage. And we 

have got 45,000 open positions. That will provide oversight to make 

sure that we are not hiring people who aren’t doing their job. It 

will also make sure we are providing oversight to speed up the 

Federal hiring process that makes it so onerous that good cardiac 

173 

surgeons don’t want to take the time, even though they want to 

serve. 

So I fully support the Chairman’s recommendation. I respect and 

understand the Committee has very difficult decisions to make. But 

I think the key numbers that Chairman Roe indicated to you, this 

is the second-largest Federal agency. It is one that the American 

people rally behind. It is spread out across from the Northern Mariana Islands to the Philippines. When a volcano erupts in the Philippines and buries a cemetery, that is our responsibility to figure 

out how to get the funds to dig it back out and to honor those veterans who are laid to rest there in the Philippines. 

So I ask this Committee to give consideration to our request. And 

again, I can assure you that Chairman Roe is a man of his word. 

Every dollar is watched carefully. Every decision that is made is 

always in first and foremost the best interest of our veterans, this 

Nation’s security, and the taxpayers. 

So I yield back, and I am open for questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Walz follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ranking Member Walz. And of 

course I never know whether to call Chairman Roe Chairman Roe 

or Dr. Roe or Mayor or any of the other hats that he has worn or 

just Congressman. But I appreciate the work that you are having 

to do. And it is just not easy. 

Tell me again approximately how many employees the Department of Veterans Affairs has. 

Mr. ROE. The number of employees, Mr. Chairman, is a little 

north of 360,000 total the VA hires. And what we are doing—I just 

left an hour meeting with new Secretary Shulkin. We have a tremendous job ahead of us with revising the Choice Program. And 

just this one—I mean, this brought it to light to me. We went down 

to Memphis, Tennessee with an hour’s notice and walked in this 

hospital. And I have been poring through this investigation right 

here that we have done at one hospital, and it is just a symptom 

of what is going on across the country. 

The veterans deserve—you hear them—there is not a single person sitting up there that doesn’t have tens of thousands of veterans 

in their home—in their districts. There are two veterans sitting 

here in front of you. And it is our responsibility to do this right, 

and we need the resources to do it. 

I am mind-boggled at $180 billion. It is 180,000 million dollars. 

And not all of it is being spent wisely either. 

The CHAIRMAN. You know, our responsibility is, obviously, to review your request, make sure you have got what you need to be 

equipped to do your job, and hopefully be stronger as a Committee. 

For us constitutionally, we are supposed to be a coequal branch of 

government, and we have sort of diminished that ability over a 

long period of time. So how do we get that to where we can actually 

do what is our responsibility? 

So we will look through this, try to do what is best. If we have 

any follow-up, we will get back in touch with you. 

At this time I will recognize the Ranking Member of the Committee, Mr. Brady, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. My question for 

the record, Ranking Member, there is a one-third, two-third split. 

Is that working out with the Committee? 

Mr. WALZ. It is, and I appreciate the question. I would also like 

to thank the Chairman for the comment about this is our responsibility and we should not diminish it. While I trust the IG, it is up 

to us to do it. 

Yes, it is. And the reason I would say so, Mr. Ranking Member, 

is the professionalism of the staff. It truly is a bipartisan professional staff where we work with each other. I get information from 

Chairman Roe’s staff as easily as I do from ours. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. At this time I will recognize Mr. Davis, the Vice 

Chairman of the Committee, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member. We have 

seen through the news media over the last couple of years how important your Committee is to getting our veterans the service that 

177 

they deserve. And I appreciate everything that your Committee 

does to hold the VA accountable. 

As most of you know, many of us in our district offices have upwards of 100 open cases for our veterans who are either not getting 

the care that they need when they need it or not getting the service 

that they deserve when they were promised that service when they 

signed up to protect our Nation. 

With that in mind, I notice that you have asked for a slight increase in your travel budget. Does that mean that you are going 

to be able to come to more facilities throughout the Nation for accountability purposes? And how can we help you do that to ensure 

that the agency that you oversee is serving our veterans as they 

should? 

Mr. ROE. We actually did not ask for an increase in our travel 

budget. 

Mr. WALZ. We will if you will let us. 

Mr. ROE. Yeah, if you want to let us have it. 

Mr. DAVIS. You know what, it was my fault. It was an increase 

over your actual spending. 

Mr. ROE. Actually, what we are doing is adding these positions. 

Just to give you an example, we are going to have to oversee probably the transformation of the VA’s IT system. They are spending 

$4.5 billion a year, 86 percent of which is to take this legacy system and make it work. 

And to give you an example, right now we don’t have interoperability. I remember 4 or 5 years ago sitting in a committee hearing 

and seeing where the VA and DOD flushed a billion dollars trying 

to make the DOD and VA systems talk to each other, and they 

couldn’t do it. 

As you know, DOD—Chairman Thornberry was here just a 

minute ago with the Ranking Member—they are putting in an electronic system there that is an off-the-shelf system. We are going to 

have to oversee that in the VA, and it is a much bigger project. I 

have got to have somebody that has that expertise to help me do 

it. 

Mr. DAVIS. Excellent. 

Mr. ROE. I don’t have it. 

Mr. DAVIS. Excellent. 

You know, I have asked this from some of the Chairmen and 

Ranking Members who came in yesterday: If you were to get extra 

dollars, if you were to have access to extra funds, what would you 

be able to spend it on and what would you do to make the VA work 

better? 

Mr. ROE. Here are two of the major things. The IT part is integral in making everything else work. For instance, when you have 

someone that comes in your office with a claim, they have a disability claim, the disability people can’t look back into that record. 

They have to do it all by paper. When that claim is then denied 

and they go through an appeals process, the appeals people and the 

claims people can’t go back and forth. 

So we are going to have to have some expertise on our Committee that helps us when we transform into a different system. 

Health care is another piece. That is a huge piece when people 

don’t feel like they are getting the quality of care that they need. 

178 

And we need that expertise to go in and do these kind of investigations, when we just pop into your district with an hour’s notice. 

That is what we did in Memphis, Tennessee. And we need to do 

more of that. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, thank you. I hope you do. And as you are talking about hiring the staff to make sure that the IT issues are more 

streamlined at the VA, I would urge you to also help us in implementing a bill that just passed unanimously Ted Yoho and I introduced, called the Wingman Act, to allow our certified caseworkers 

in our district offices, something I used to be, to have better access 

to a site to provide better service to our veterans. 

If we get pushback from the VA in implementing that, I would 

love to have your Committee’s help in ensuring that that is 

seamlessly implemented too, to do what we all want in a bipartisan 

way, which is to serve our veterans better. 

So thank you very much. And I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize Mr. Raskin for 5 minutes. 

Mr. RASKIN. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 

And welcome, Chairman Roe and Ranking Member Walz. It isa great pleasure to hear you guys. 

Chairman Roe, did I just hear you correctly to say that a billion 

dollars was spent trying to promote the interoperability of the IT 

systems between DOD and the VA and it failed? Or was it a million dollars? 

Mr. ROE. No, sir, you almost flipped over like I did. You heard 

it right. It was a billion dollars. A thousand million dollars. And 

it was probably that is a low number. We had Secretary Shinseki 

in and also the Secretary of Defense in, and they just couldn’t do 

it. And I actually made a trip twice to Great Lakes, Illinois, to 

watch where they were trying to make these records interoperative, 

and they were never able to do it. 

We have wasted a mind-boggling amount of money on that process. And finally what DOD did, they just got an off-the-shelf system. And what the new system needs to be able to do, and the 

Vista system that they have, is a good electronic health record system. I put one in my practice. I have actually initiated an electronic health record. 

They built on top of that a lot of other features and tried to internally do things it was never designed to do. We need something 

that does scheduling, something that does the E.H.R., something 

that pays the bills promptly. One of the reasons in your district I 

am sure you hear from your providers that doctors that are seeing 

patients, they are not being paid in a timely fashion, and so they 

drop out of the system, making the Choice Program even harder to 

work and to implement. 

Mr. RASKIN. So forgive me for being optimistic here, but is there 

some opportunity of improving the situation that you guys are 

working on? What are the prospects? 

Mr. WALZ. Well, if I could, Chairman, I would say yes. And I 

would say the Chairman’s leadership has been instrumental in 

that. And I tell you, Congressman Raskin, that I have talked about 

this seamless transition since I am blue in the face in the time that 

I have been here. At no time in the previous 10 years have I seen 

179 

us be so close. I think there is a concerted effort, both from the Secretary over to the Senate VA Committee, the leadership on this 

Committee, that we are there. 

This is not an easy thing. It is difficult. Technology costs a lot. 

You always regret that computer you brought that was outdated in 

6 months. VA has not had strategic vision on this. The same thing 

with DOD, finally got to this point because they were spending 90 

percent of their budget maintaining an old system. And these are 

not just old systems. They are 50-year-old COBOL systems. Don’t 

do what they need to do. 

And this is not just a spreadsheet. An electronic medical record 

is a diagnostic tool, as Dr. Roe knows, and you tie it into billing, 

you tie it into scheduling, you tie into the private sector as we 

move to that. It is the cornerstone piece to reform of the VA, and 

it is going to take oversight. 

So you should be optimistic. And I think I would go back to the 

budget request. If we are going to be responsible and get the blame 

for what is not working at VA, I would like us to have the tools 

to change that so that doesn’t happen. 

And I think where Dr. Roe said this, something when we do this, 

it was this team of professionals that went out and found the issue, 

some of you remember, of the outrageous travel allowances and the 

movement that was happening inside the VA. That happened by a 

site visit from the Committee, not the IG, not anybody outside of 

that. It came from good Article I oversight. And this is one of those 

too that if we get this wrong, we are going to waste money and we 

are going to put veterans in a worse position. 

Mr. RASKIN. And is there a timetable for actually implementing 

this or is it just kind of incremental improvement we are talking 

about? 

Mr. ROE. It can’t be incremental. The VA is going to have to 

make the giant leap, and that is going to be hard to get done. It 

will be a culture change. 

And this isn’t easy. Look, I have shifted from paper to electronic 

health records. It is painful to do it. You would have to run two 

parallel systems and implement this over time. And that is one of 

the reason we need expertise that neither one of us have to be able 

to go make sure this is done properly. 

Mr. RASKIN. Okay. Well, thank you very much. 

And, Mr. Chair, I will be curious as a new Member of the Committee to spread out this line of inquiry about the Federal Government generally to what extent we have got interoperability and advanced, up-to-date IT technology in the various departments. 

Thank you. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. And we will make 

sure they don’t charge you for this time that you have used on 

questions today at the next hearing. 

I now recognize Mr. Smith for 5 minutes for any questions he 

may have. 

Mr. SMITH. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you to our colleagues here. You have got a big job to do. 

And I certainly admire your willingness and certainly the capability to do the job. 

180 

Let me reference a specific scenario that reflects a larger concern 

that I have. And, Mr. Walz, you are probably aware of this geographically. The Black Hills Healthcare System, there is a lot of 

controversy there with some decisions that central folks at the VA 

have chosen to make. I fear that it is reflective of a larger issue, 

and that is the care for veterans in rural areas. 

We know that it is not always more expensive. Sometimes more 

resources are needed for rural areas. But just perhaps a reflection 

on the unique needs of rural areas. 

So would you say that your Committee is well suited, given the 

resources and so forth, for oversight of rural concerns? And anything that we should be aware of relating to that? 

Mr. ROE. Well, I think a couple things. And thank you for the 

question. I live in rural America, and certainly I know you do in 

your district, and it creates a challenge when a few people are 

spread over broad areas. It is one of the reasons that we have to 

make the Choice Program work. 

And in October I went to Lubbock, Texas, and also to the Yakima 

Valley in Washington. And Dan Newhouse’s district goes from the 

Canadian border all the way down to the Oregon border. So he has 

a huge rural area. And we need that Choice Program to work. 

And the Choice Program will be where a veteran, and I absolutely believe this in the core of me, to make the VA work better, 

I think you have to have the veteran in charge of healthcare decisions. And when you do that, you put that veteran in charge with 

their card, so that they can choose where they go see their primary 

care doctor, begin, initiate their care. 

And back to your question a minute ago, one of the things that 

the VA does on technology is they store—have stored all this information on site in a server at a particular hospital. If it were cloudbased, you would have access—everybody would have access to it. 

And now we don’t. It is siloed, information is. 

But rural America where I live, making sure veterans get care 

there is absolutely essential. And that is one of the reasons we 

need a healthcare technician, someone who can actually look in 

that and make sure and investigate along those means. It will help 

us. And if you have any particular issues or just examples of where 

a veteran is not getting that, please, Members, bring them to us. 

It helps us figure out what to do. 

Mr. SMITH. I would hope that, like you said, veterans themselves 

can be heard on these issues, because they feel they are not being 

heard. 

Mr. WALZ. Mr. Smith, and I think your question is exactly right. 

You know this well, that 15 percent of our population of this country statistically live in rural areas. Forty-three percent of our veterans live there. That is just the nature. I would argue it is cultural, and it is the sense of duty that sometimes emanates from our 

areas. Your Hot Springs area I am very familiar with. 

And I do think the Committee is well versed for that. And I 

think that is what is driving some of the innovation to deliver care. 

No one is saying get rid of the core mission of the VA. No one is 

saying get rid of the polytrauma or burn centers. 

But we are saying for that veteran that is living in Gering or 

Scottsbluff, that it might make more sense for them to be able to 

181 

figure out how they can manage their care there going, up to Hot 

Springs when they need to. And possibly an inpatient facility with 

75 beds in Hot Springs that was well suited for post-World War II 

might be better incorporated into the local hospital up there with 

a wing that has a VA symbol on it and that is how we do it. 

Those are decisions that we are going to talk about, but it is one 

that has already been brought to our attention. Your neighbors, 

Senator Thune and Mrs. Noem, have already been on it. 

And as I would end with a point of personal privilege, Mr. Smith 

is my mother’s Congressman, and she oftentimes says it is a good 

thing I don’t live back there, it would be very difficult for her. So 

I thank you for that. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

No other questions? 

I want to thank you for what you are doing, what you are attempting to do in a very difficult situation. Every Member comes 

to you two with complaints that they have about what is going on 

in their district. So you are almost making house calls, Dr. Roe, for 

our Members who have these issues with the VA for their veterans. 

I am confident that you two are committed to doing this job, that 

you have been given this responsibility, and our constitutional role 

to be that coequal branch of government. So how in the world you 

can do what you need to do with the size budget and staff that you 

have now is a very difficult task. So we will take a good look at 

it and be in touch. 

Thank you so much for being here. 

Mr. ROE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Ranking Member. 

The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank the Chairs and Ranking Members for their testimony. And I also thank the Committee Members 

for their participation. 

I now recess the hearing. The Committee will reconvene, subject 

to the call of the Chair. We will reconvene at 12:15 p.m. today. 

[Recess.] 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will come to order. 

The Committee now welcomes Chairman Goodlatte and Ranking 

Member Conyers on the Committee on the Judiciary. Would the official reporter please enter a page break into the hearing record to 

begin a new section. 

182 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on the Judiciary is tasked 

with oversight of matters relating to the administration of justice 

in Federal courts, administrative bodies, and law enforcement 

agencies. Its primary focuses are to ensure that America’s laws are 

efficient, fair, and enforced, as well as to guard against the consequences of executive overreach. 

I want to welcome Chairman Goodlatte and Ranking Member 

Conyers. And at this time the Chair recognizes Chairman Goodlatte for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. BOB GOODLATTE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF VIRGINIA 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And 

thank you also to Ranking Member Brady and to the other members of the Committee. I really appreciate the opportunity to testify 

on the Judiciary Committee’s budget for the first session of the 

115th Congress. 

In this economy, all Americans are forced to tighten their belts 

and do more with less. I recognize that. And the Judiciary Committee has done the same. However, Ranking Member Conyers and 

I would like to make the case before you today that the Judiciary 

Committee is deserving of the maximum amount of funds that you 

can dedicate to it. 

Historically and presently, the Judiciary Committee is one of the 

most active Committees in the House. In the 114th Congress, for 

example, a total of 1,227 legislative measures introduced were referred to our Committee. I think I know of maybe one other Committee that would receive more bills than the Judiciary Committee. 

The Judiciary Committee held over 100 hearings and reported 69 

bills and resolutions to the House and had jurisdictional involvement in the House passage of 88 bills and resolutions. Finally, a 

total of 22 bills in which the Judiciary Committee had a jurisdictional interest were signed into law by the President. 

Additionally, the Committee convened numerous working groups 

to carefully examine complicated issues like encryption and police 

accountability. And the Committee also visited numerous locations 

throughout the United States to gather information from stakeholders outside Washington, D.C., on such important issues as police accountability, aggression toward law enforcement officers, and 

reform of our Nation’s intellectual property laws. 

Already in the 115th Congress, the Judiciary Committee has 

been hard at work to meet the demands of the heavy workload of 

the Committee, including work on issues of great importance to the 

entire Congress, such as regulatory reform, litigation reform, prohibiting taxpayer funding of abortions, protecting the privacy of 

Americans’ emails by updating the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, reauthorizing our Nation’s cherished surveillance laws, 

criminal justice reform, and immigration reform, just to name a 

few. 

One only needs to pick up a newspaper and read the headlines 

to appreciate how busy the Judiciary Committee has been over the 

last 2 years and will continue to be this year. We also expect to 

continue to engage in aggressive oversight of the Department of 

Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Patent and 

183 

Trademark Office, and other agencies within the Committee’s jurisdiction. 

Among the important issues the Committee continues to consider 

are ensuring that Federal law enforcement agencies have the necessary tools to prevent terrorist attacks, that the constitutional 

rights and civil liberties of Americans are protected, that America’s 

borders are secure and our immigration laws are enforced, and that 

the administration of justice is fair and efficient within both the 

Justice Department and Federal law enforcement agencies and 

within our Federal judiciary. 

In fact, the Committee expects to significantly increase its oversight of the Federal judiciary, including making sure Americans 

have access to important information about cases, making sure 

Americans have sufficient access to justice, and making sure the 

judiciary is using its resources effectively. 

In addition, the Committee plays an important role in strengthening our economy and putting Americans back to work. We ensure 

robust and fair competition under our antitrust laws, encourage innovation and promote America’s global competitiveness through 

our intellectual property laws, improve our immigration laws to attract the best and brightest from around the world, and bolster the 

business climate by providing relief from burdensome and excessive 

regulations. 

Finally, the Committee will need to devote significant time and 

resources toward reauthorizing the many agencies and programs 

within the Committee’s jurisdiction whose statutory authorizations 

have expired. And I know the Chairman and the Ranking Member 

are aware of the new requirements in our House rules related to 

reauthorization of these programs and Committees. 

All of these issues are critical to the safety and economic wellbeing of millions of Americans. Because of this, it is vital that we 

retain a highly qualified staff as the cornerstone of the Committee’s 

capacity to consider complicated and often controversial legislation 

and policy issues that fall within its jurisdiction. 

To attract and retain quality staff, the Committee must be able 

to offer compensation that is at least somewhat competitive with 

the private sector. This is particularly challenging when a disproportionate number of Committee staff are attorneys with substantial experience and public policy expertise who could command 

higher salaries from the private sector. 

In addition to the personnel that are necessary to manage the demanding workload of the Judiciary Committee, there are operating 

funds that will be critical in enabling the Committee to properly investigate certain policy issues under its jurisdiction. 

For example, I believe that it is an important function of the 

Committee to conduct site visits and field hearings on certain complex issues, such as police accountability, immigration reform, and 

our ongoing review of copyright laws, where a full evaluation of the 

issues is not possible without seeing firsthand how the current programs operate and gaining a better understanding of the successes 

and deficiencies of the current law. 

While I have and will continue to do what is necessary to ensure 

that the Judiciary Committee is operating efficiently and effectively, I respectfully request that when allocating funds to CommitVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00185 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
184 

tees, you take into account the enormous legislative burden of the 

Judiciary Committee and the likelihood that it will require more 

resources when compared with other Committees. 

And I would point out also that, in that regard, the Committee 

has been what I would call lean and mean for a long, long time, 

that if you look at the staffing on both the majority and minority 

sides of this Committee, we operate with less personnel than I 

think is fair and effective given the staffing in some other Committees. 

So I thank you for your time and consideration, and I yield back 

the balance of my time. 

[The statement of Mr. Goodlatte follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Chairman Goodlatte yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Conyers, 

for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOHN CONYERS, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. CONYERS. Thank you, Chairman Harper and Ranking Member Brady, and also new Member Jamie Raskin. We welcome you 

and are honored to be appearing here with my Chairman, Bob 

Goodlatte, to present our 2017 budget request for the House Judiciary Committee. 

I join with my colleague, the Chairman, to consider this budget 

request favorably for several reasons. To begin with, this request 

reflects the fact that the Judiciary Committee is responsible for 

some of the most critical issues facing our Nation and is among the 

most active Committees in the House of Representatives. Our Committee plays a major role in dealing with extremely vital and contemporary legislative and oversight issues that have nationwide 

significance. 

The Committee’s responsibilities, of course, as has been indicated, include oversight of the Department of Justice and the Nation’s criminal code, as well as the Federal court judiciary system. 

It also examines complex issues presented by proposed mergers, including multibillion-dollar mergers. It includes intellectual property 

disputes and the Federal regulatory process, all of which affect 

most facets of our society. 

Such extensive responsibilities, obviously, require the Committee 

to expend extensive time and resources. For example, during the 

114th Congress, one in five of the legislative measures introduced 

were referred to our Committee, the House Judiciary Committee. 

Our Committee reported 69 substantive bills and resolutions, and 

the Committee had a jurisdictional interest in 22 of the bills signed 

into law during the last Congress. The Judiciary Committee held 

over 60 subcommittee hearings and more than 25 full Committee 

hearings, as well as 40 full Committee markups. 

It is also very likely that the Committee’s workload for the current Congress will more than likely increase. Chairman Goodlatte 

has proposed an ambitious hearing and legislative schedule during 

which the Committee will continue to work on immigration policy, 

criminal law issues, patent and copyright concerns, criminal justice 

reform, and many others. These hearings will of course necessitate 

travel expenditures, particularly with respect to policing and intellectual property reform. And so, accordingly, we urge you to 

prioritize the Committee’s budget request and to consider our request in full. 

Absent an increase in funding, the Committee will be unable to 

attract and retain the highly qualified staff who are crucial to support the work of the Committee. As the details reveal in the budget 

submission, the 12 percent increase from our 2016 Committee allocation will ensure that our staff who are working long hours and 

are stretched thin can keep up with the Committee’s ambitious 

agenda. 

I am pleased that Chairman Goodlatte is committed to working 

cooperatively with me in an effort to ensure that the Committee 

193 

meets a sufficient level of funding. And given the severe negative 

ramifications that could result from an underfunded Committee 

staff, I believe it is imperative that adequate Committee staff resources be available for our issues. And so I urge the Committee 

on House Administration to grant us this modest increase in the 

Judiciary Committee’s budget. 

The Chairman and I have submitted a budget before you today 

that reflects our shared commitment to retaining and building a 

highly qualified staff to support the significant work of the Committee. 

Members of this Committee, I appreciate your attention to our 

request, and I am happy to respond to any questions that you may 

have. And I thank you very much. 

[The statement of Mr. Conyers follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

I want to thank you both for your testimony. And we recognize 

the importance of what the Committee does. I had the privilege my 

first term of serving on Judiciary. It is a great Committee. And I 

appreciate the leadership that both of you are showing and working together on trying to present this budget. 

One of my main concerns is the fact that we have a constitutional responsibility. We are a coequal branch of government. And 

yet we have sort of let that escape just a little bit over probably 

many decades. So how we get that back to make sure that you are 

equipped to do that responsibility that you have, we want to make 

sure that we take a good look at this and see. 

I want to recognize Mr. Brady, the Ranking Member, now for 5 

minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. 

I am sure you probably answered this as part of your testimony, 

but for the record, for the Ranking Member, the one-third, twothirds agreement is being honored? 

Mr. CONYERS. Yes. 

Mr. BRADY. That is all, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

We also know that you have many responsibilities to take care 

of these things. So how we go forward in this body to make sure 

Congress does its job is of great importance to this Committee. And 

so we appreciate your time. Thank you for your testimony. Thank 

you. 

Mr. CONYERS. Thank you very much. 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chairman now welcomes Chairman Black 

and Ranking Member Yarmuth of the Committee on the Budget. 

Would the official reporter please enter a page break into the hearing record to begin a new section. 

198 

The CHAIRMAN. Congratulations to Chairman Black for officially 

being selected to serve as Chairman of the Committee. The Committee on the Budget is tasked with oversight of congressional consideration of spending, revenue, and debt limit legislation. 

I want to welcome Chairman Black and Ranking Member Yarmuth. And at this time the Chair will recognize Chairman Black 

for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. DIANE BLACK, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TENNESSEE 

Mrs. BLACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 

Brady, for the opportunity to testify this afternoon regarding the 

Budget Committee’s funding resolution for the 115th Congress. 

I am pleased to report that during the 114th Congress the Budget Committee stayed within the spending levels approved by this 

Committee. Therefore, we are requesting that our annual funding 

level for the 115th Congress remain frozen at the 2016 level of approximately $5.1 million. This requested allocation will provide the 

Committee the necessary resources to adequately fulfill our current 

and future priorities. 

I intend to continue the Budget Committee’s past practice of 

carefully managing our funding allocations with respect to the 

Committee’s operations. For example, I am committed to keeping 

our staffing levels considerably below our current limit of 66. The 

Committee currently has 43 staff members, and we expect to continue near or at that staffing level over the course of the 115th 

Congress. 

Additionally, we will continue to monitor our expenditures closely to ensure that we use these resources wisely and efficiently. 

We also have enjoyed a respectful bipartisan relationship regarding the allocation of resources between the majority and the minority, and I intend to maintain this tradition. Under the 2016 spending allocation, the Committee was able to provide the minority with 

one-third of the Committee’s budget. This division of financial resources ensures that both the majority and the minority have sufficient resources to properly fulfill the Committee’s many responsibilities and maintain a highly professional staff. 

Personnel costs remain the largest area of operational expenditures for the Committee, while subscriptions and equipment costs 

are second and third most expensive items in the Committee’s 

budget, respectfully. 

I would like to point out, however, that in support of the Cannon 

Renewal Project, the Committee obligated $300,000 in both 2015 

and 2016 to pay for the additional renovations of the Budget Committee’s hearing room in 210 Cannon. This renovation will allow 

our hearing room to be fully compliant with the Americans with 

Disabilities Act, while also improving space efficiency for Members 

and staff, and no further obligations for these renovations will be 

required. 

Our request for a frozen funding level is both responsible and 

disciplined, and provides flexibility to meet the Committee’s potential future needs. 

199 

Further, it is my understanding that Mr. Yarmuth supports this 

budget request and our plans for the management of the Committee’s funds. 

In closing, I would also like to express the Budget Committee’s 

appreciation and thanks to the staff of the House Administration 

Committee, especially Staff Director Sean Moran, and the staff of 

the Architect of the Capitol for their wonderful assistance provided 

to the Budget Committee during the move of the majority staff 

from the Cannon to the Longworth last year. Moving offices is 

never easy, as we all know, but with the professionalism exhibited 

by both staffs, the move was seamless and trouble free. 

And I would also like to thank the Chairman and the Ranking 

Member for their support in finding additional space for the majority staff within the Longworth Building earlier this year. The additional space has benefited both members and staff of the Budget 

Committee. 

And thank you for your time, and I would be happy to answer 

any questions you may have. 

[The statement of Mrs. Black follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Yarmuth, for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOHN A. YARMUTH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY 

Mr. YARMUTH. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Brady, thank 

you for providing us this opportunity to testify about the Budget 

Committee’s use of funds in the 115th Congress. 

I am also pleased to be here alongside our Chairman, Mrs. Black. 

We are both testifying before the House Administration Committee 

for the first time as the new Chairman and Ranking Member, and 

we do so with the commitment to carry on the tradition of running 

the Budget Committee’s operations in a bipartisan manner. 

While we may not see eye to eye on the overall budget priorities 

of the country, we are, however, in agreement on the funding distribution of the Committee’s budget. As in previous years, in the 

115th Congress, the majority will make one-third of the funding 

and resources available to the minority for personnel. The minority 

budget will continue to cover costs of equipment for both staffs, 

providing the same quality and services for both majority and minority. 

I would like to note that, over the last year, the minority budget 

had lower expenditures than normal. However, that was a one-time 

anomaly. There were a number of staff who left during the year 

and weren’t replaced, including the staff director and a senior analyst. My predecessor, Mr. Van Hollen, who was running for Senate 

and not returning to the Committee, decided to hold off filling 

these positions to give the incoming Ranking Member the opportunity to make those personnel decisions. Over the past few weeks, 

I have filled all of our vacant positions, and the minority staff is 

now at full strength. 

That being said, there is not a lot of flexibility in the minority 

budget, which essentially covers staff salaries. Funding has been 

frozen at the same level for the last 3 years, and we are now operating at 18 percent below what the minority budget was in 2010. 

While we have been able to manage within these funding levels 

and expect to during this Congress, we can’t absorb any further 

cuts without doing damage to our mission. As we look to the future, continuing to freeze resources over the longer term is not sustainable, particularly if the growth rate in private-sector wages increases and draws talented people away from government service. 

We have highly experienced analysts on the staff who are experts 

in a wide range of public policy areas. If we want to retain them 

and attract new people who are skilled, motivated, and experienced, we have to pay competitive salaries. 

I also have concerns beyond staff salaries. The Committee’s commitment to save money in the current fiscal climate means we are 

keeping equipment longer. The Committee’s computer server is beyond its original warranty, as are most of the computers. While I 

am in favor of getting the most out of the equipment we buy, there 

is a point where it becomes counterproductive and, worse, makes 

our information systems vulnerable to cyber attack. New computers 

and equipment will be needed in the near future. 

204 

We owe it to the American taxpayer that we spend their money 

as efficiently as possible, and we will continue to look for ways to 

do more with less. But we must recognize there is a limit. And, as 

the urgency to deal with our long-term budget challenges builds, 

we will need the best possible analysis and advice from Budget 

Committee staff. We will need to attract and retain first-rate analysts and provide them the necessary support they need to perform 

at the highest levels. I hope that our budget allocation will reflect 

these important goals. 

And I would like to join Chairman Black in expressing our appreciation to the House Administration Committee staff and to the 

Committee members for facilitating our move. We are in comfortable quarters now and doing well. So we appreciate that very 

much. 

And I yield back. 

[The statement of Mr. Yarmuth follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize himself for 5 minutes for the purpose of questions. 

You know, I had the privilege of serving on the Budget Committee my first term, and it is somewhat of a thankless Committee 

because you have the role to play that you have, and there are difficult decisions that have to be made that you have to keep us on 

track. So we appreciate the willingness to do that in a way that 

works, that is efficient. 

And we also recognize that we have a constitutional role. As a 

coequal branch of government, we want to make sure that we have 

the ability to do our job in that role. So we will look forward to 

working through this and looking at these numbers and the testimony that you presented. 

At this time, I will recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Brady, 

for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Madam Chairman and Ranking Member. Good luck 

and congratulations, I think. Being on the Budget Committee is not 

that easy. 

But the only question I would have would be the one-third/twothirds distribution, and you both answered that. So thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Any other members have questions they would 

like to ask? Seeing none, I want to thank you both for your time, 

and I appreciate your willingness to work together, and we will 

have a decision to you. Thank you. 

Mrs. BLACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee now welcomes Chairman 

Chaffetz and Ranking Member Cummings. 

Would the official reporter please enter a page break into the 

hearing record to begin a new section. 

209 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is tasked with oversight of the Federal Government 

and proactively investigates and exposes waste, fraud, and abuse. 

Its primary focus is to ensure efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability throughout the Federal Government, and that responsibility 

and primary focus remains steadfast. 

I want to welcome Chairman Chaffetz and Ranking Member 

Cummings. 

At this time, the Chair will recognize Chairman Chaffetz for 5 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JASON CHAFFETZ, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF UTAH 

Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to the Ranking 

Member as well. I appreciate this opportunity to talk about our 

budget and what we are presenting here. 

The Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is a Committee that was originally founded back in 1814. And, interestingly, it has had a variety of different names, but it was there to 

oversee all the government expenditures. It expanded; it contracted. An interesting note, at one point, when Abraham Lincoln 

served in the United States Congress, he actually served on this 

Committee. He was known as Spotty Lincoln. Spotty Lincoln was 

one who questioned the President about where did the MexicanAmerican War start. It is a really interesting heritage in history, 

and a lot has happened in this Committee, obviously, through several generations. 

As you said, Mr. Chairman, the mission is to ensure the efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability of the Federal Government 

and all its agencies. With more than 2 million Federal employees 

and so much happening in the government, there is certainly a lot 

to look at. We can’t look at everything. Each of the other committees does have a component of oversight, but we do have a broad 

mission and are able, under the House rules, to investigate anything at any time. There are some constraints as it relates to 

sources and methods that the Intel Committee looks at, but certainly we have a very active Committee. 

We have reconfigured the subcommittees. We now have six subcommittees. We had six before, but we reconfigured one of those to 

look at intergovernmental affairs as well. We also in the last Congress put in a subcommittee that had not been there previously, 

and that was the IT Subcommittee. We spend more than $80 billion a year on information technology. There are some 250,000 Federal employees who work on IT, and it really doesn’t work. And we 

are one of the unique committees that can look across all the different bureaus and agencies and do that. And it has been a very 

productive, good bipartisan work happening in that subcommittee. 

We believe we have the opportunity in this Congress to pay particular attention also to the reform component. We are Oversight 

and Government Reform. So, as it comes to all the personnel 

issues, those also fall within our jurisdiction. We have already introduced comprehensive bipartisan Postal reform legislation, four 

members on the Democratic side of the aisle and four on the Republican side of the aisle. And I think and I hope that, on the reVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00211 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
210 

form side, this will be our first significant piece of legislation. The 

Postal Service affects every single American, and we focus on that 

and have a mission to get that moving in the right direction and 

a financial trajectory to prevent a bailout. 

We are also working on reforms that are needed in the workforce, empowering the inspectors general, which we have been very 

united on, promoting a strong cybersecurity, and other areas within 

our jurisdiction. As we look to these reforms, we will be sure to 

look at each problem and encounter these through the lens of authorizing and appropriating committees. I call it triangulating. We 

have got to be able to triangulate the problem, the Oversight Committee, working with the Committee of authorization, if it is not us, 

and then also with the Appropriations Committee, to actually institute those reforms. 

As has been the case since the 108th Congress, 2003–2008, it is 

a two-thirds/one-third model, with the minority receiving 33 percent of the staff and budget funds to be used at the discretion of 

the Ranking Member. In this year’s budget request—we did not 

ask for one last year, but we are asking for a 3-percent increase 

in this budget this year. We think this modest increase will help 

us provide not only the staffing resources that we need, but I also 

felt in the last Congress, the first time I was the Chair, that we 

didn’t do as many field hearings as we would like to do. And that 

is where you see part of that increase. 

My time has expired, and I yield back. 

[The joint statement of Mr. Chaffetz and Mr. Cummings follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize Ranking Member Cummings for 5 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Thank you very much, Chairman Harper and 

Ranking Member Brady, Members of the Committee. 

I want to associate myself with the comments of our Chairman. 

Our Committee has done quite a bit. We have a very wide jurisdiction. And we are constantly trying to weed out fraud, waste and 

abuse. We have taken on some very, very difficult and complicated 

matters and done it, in many instances, in a bipartisan way. 

The Chairman will tell you that we have sent out 740 joint letters over the last couple years, and we have dealt with such issues 

as the Secret Service, where we are still in the process of trying 

to make sure that that agency runs the way it is supposed to run. 

But we could not have done it unless it was a bipartisan effort. 

But to make those kinds of reforms—the Chairman just talked 

about the reform part of what we do—to make those kinds of reforms, it takes a lot of effort on the staff’s part. We have got to 

have good people, and we have got to pay them well. I don’t know 

about the Republican side of things, but it seems as fast as we 

train people and get them really moving forward, the next thing 

you know, there are people that come along and snatch them. So 

salaries are very important for us. 

The other thing that I want to emphasize is I want to thank the 

Chairman too. Just this morning, he signed on a letter with me 

where we sent a letter to the—well, let me back up. 

Lieutenant General Flynn had gone over to Russia to have a dinner back in 2015. And according to law, he is supposed to report 

his relationships with foreign governments, and he was supposed 

to report any money that he got in from that venture. DOD has 

told us that he did not. 

And so just this morning, I want to thank the Chairman for joining in with me in a joint letter to try to find out what he was paid 

and why. We are trying to get to the bottom of why he did not report it. 

The reason why I am raising that is because we delve into some 

very sticky subjects. And I think that, when I think about the jurisdiction of the number of things that come to us, it takes a lot of 

time. It takes a lot of effort. And so, again, the budget for us, I 

mean, I don’t turn back money. I don’t have it to turn back. We 

need every dime we can get. And so I am hoping that—I join the 

Chairman in requesting the 3-percent increase. I think that is important. 

And, again, I want to go to something else that we are involved 

in, and the Chairman touched on this. And I think, again, it is a 

great bipartisan effort, but it is an effort that takes time and a lot 

of effort. That is the Postal bill. This Postal bill we are about to— 

hopefully, we will have it passed very shortly. But the Chairman 

and I were just talking about it. We will be in a situation where 

we will hopefully right the Postal ship, which was really in bad 

215 

shape, for the next 20 years, hopefully. But it took a lot of cooperation and a lot of effort. 

A lot of times people look at our Committee and say, ‘‘Oh, you 

know, it seems as if there is a lot of negativity,’’ but you would be 

surprised at the things that we have been able to accomplish. But 

you can’t accomplish it unless you have the resources to accomplish 

it with. 

Of course, technology, we are always trying to keep up with that. 

Keep in mind that we have one of the greatest threats to our national security, and this is something that we worked on very closely; that is cyber. Cyber is a big deal for us. And the Chairman, to 

his credit, has spent a lot of time trying to make sure that we look 

at those kinds of issues so that we can play our part as a Committee to stay ahead of that. 

And so I hope that you will look at our situation favorably. I understand that we have a major role to play. We have a lot of whistleblowers now coming forward. We have to deal with them too. 

And so, again, I want to thank you for this opportunity, and I look 

forward to your decision. 

With that, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the Ranking Member for yielding back. 

And I thank you both for your testimony. 

We obviously want to make sure that we fulfill what is our 

body’s constitutional role to be a coequal branch of this government. And we have probably handicapped ourselves some in having 

what we need to do our job. And so I appreciate the effort, your 

willingness to work together. We will take a serious look at your 

request. Thank you for the job you are doing. 

And I also at this point recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. 

Brady, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ranking Member, for 

being here. 

The only question I would have had was the distribution, onethird/two-thirds, and you have both answered that. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Any other members have any other questions? 

Anyone? That was easy, wasn’t it? 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Thank you very much. 

Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Okay. Thanks. We appreciate it. We will look at 

it and be in touch. Thank you. 

The Committee now welcomes Chairman Smith and Ranking 

Member Johnson. 

Would the official reporter please enter a page break into the 

hearing record to begin a new section. 

216 

The CHAIRMAN. The House Committee on Science, Space, and 

Technology is tasked with oversight of programs at NASA, the Department of Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and the 

National Science Foundation, among others. Its primary focus is on 

scientific discoveries, space exploration, and new technologies. I 

want to welcome Chairman Smith and Ranking Member Johnson. 

At this time, the Chair will recognize Chairman Smith for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. LAMAR SMITH, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 

Ranking Member Brady. And thank you, other Members of the 

Committee. 

We appreciate the opportunity to testify to you today about the 

Science, Space, and Technology Committee’s budget for the 115th 

Congress. All Americans know how to tighten their belts and do 

more with less. This is something that the Science Committee has 

done for many years. 

In the last Congress, we made very efficient use of our authorized funding levels. Only 0.4 percent of our funding for the last 

Congress went unspent once all obligations for 2016 were satisfied. 

We have done more with less, streamlined our administrative processes and procedures, and cut many IT and administrative support 

costs. 

The Committee was very active in the last Congress, both in our 

oversight efforts and promoting legislation that advances America’s 

interest in science, space, and technology. The Committee held over 

100 hearings and approved 26 bills in the last Congress. Of those 

26 bills, 22 received bipartisan support. In total, we passed 40 bills 

on the House floor and had 22 bills signed into law. 

The Committee worked all the way until the final hours of the 

last Congress. In fact, the last bill signed into law by the previous 

administration was the American Innovation and Competitiveness 

Act signed into law on January 6 of this year. This law incorporates provisions from 11 House-passed Science Committee bills. 

A number that may make our budget request look small is $42 

billion. That is the amount of Federal Government agency budgets 

that the Committee will consider, reprioritize, and reauthorize in 

the next 2 years. Times are changing, and the competition for who 

will lead the world is heating up. The purpose of the Science Committee is to encourage the research and development that leads to 

new innovations and job creation. 

So the work of the Science Committee focuses on America’s future. The Science Committee’s jurisdiction has expanded over the 

past 60 years to become very broad and diverse. 

Mr. Chairman, as you mentioned a while ago, the Committee has 

jurisdiction over programs at the following Federal agencies: 

NASA, the Department of Energy, the Environmental Protection 

Agency, the National Science Foundation, the National Institute of 

Standards and Technology, the White House Office of Science and 

Technology Policy, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Federal Highway 

Administration, the Homeland Security Science and Technology DiVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00218 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
217 

rectorate, the U.S. Fire Administration, and the United States Geological Survey, among others. 

To carry out this task will require an increase in staff on our legislative teams. In addition, the job opportunities opening up for 

majority staff in the new administration will require pay increases 

in order to retain the valuable, experienced Committee staff vital 

to drafting this legislation. To perform effective and efficient oversight and develop legislative policy, we must ensure that staffs on 

both sides of the aisle are equipped with the technical expertise 

necessary to handle this diverse jurisdiction. The Science Committee ensures that taxpayers and the American people receive a 

strong return on their investment. Our request before you for $11 million in the 115th Congress will 

allow the Committee to unlock new knowledge, increase productivity, raise American standard of living, and create more jobs. It 

will enable us to ensure that our agencies spend taxpayers’ dollars 

efficiently, that our policies will open the door to new scientific 

breakthroughs, and that America will remain on the forefront of 

new technologies and discoveries. 

We welcome your questions and thank you for your interest in 

our Committee’s budget. 

[The statement of Mr. Smith of Texas follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Johnson, 

for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Ms. JOHNSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 

Member Brady and Members of the Committee. 

I want to thank you for this opportunity to speak today about our 

Committee funding for the 115th Congress. Chairman Smith has 

already presented an overview of the Committee’s finances. So I 

will make brief remarks on the minority budget. 

As you know, Chairman Smith and I don’t always agree on everything, but we do agree that an increase in resources available 

to the Committee would be very helpful to us as we conduct our 

oversight and authorization activities. 

We incurred a 26.2-percent reduction in our Committee’s budget 

in 2010 to 2013 that forced us to defer filling staff slots as well as 

to cut salaries of most of the staff who were retained from previous 

Congresses. We also had to significantly limit Committee oversight 

travel by members and staff. And, thankfully, in the 113th and 

114th Congresses, we received some stability in our budgets and 

were able to hire valuable new staff members and carry out several 

oversight trips. 

In the 115th Congress, the Committee will need to develop and 

advance legislation to reauthorize or provide policy guidance on 

many of the agencies under the Committee’s jurisdiction, including 

NASA, NSF, NIST, NOAA, FAA’s R&D programs, and Department 

of Energy programs, among others. It is also anticipated that there 

will be a range of significant oversight initiatives undertaken by 

the Committee in this Congress, including some that will result in 

a need to develop additional legislation. 

As I have said to this Committee in the past, I place a high priority on making sure that minority members and staff will have 

the opportunity to appropriately be informed and engaged in the 

legislative and oversight activities of the Committee. 

We made full use of our funds to carry out our responsibilities 

in the 114th Congress, and there will be no reduction in that need 

for at least the travel, the level of resources provided in the 114th. 

We still have several unfilled staff slots, and that staffing shortfall 

affects our ability to carry out our legislative and oversight activities. 

Our budgetary restraints also affect our ability to compete with 

the private sector for skilled professional staff. As we are given additional funding for the 115th, I would plan, at a minimum, to hire 

a staff assistant to allow senior professional staff to focus their 

time on oversight and authorization activities. 

In addition, I think that it will be very important for members 

of the staff to undertake oversight visits to government research facilities and laboratories under the jurisdiction of the Committee. It 

has been years since members have visited most of these facilities. 

And it is important that our policy initiatives be informed by an 

understanding of the actual work being undertaken at these FedVerDate Sep 11 2014 02:15 Jun 23, 2017 Jkt 025575 PO 00000 Frm 00226 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A575.XXX A575
225 

eral laboratories and our research universities. This need especially 

impacts our new members. 

If we receive additional funds, I will plan on taking a number of 

specific domestic members and staff codels, including one to the 

West Coast to visit the DOE national laboratories as well as NASA 

facilities and high-tech enterprises. I would also like to have members visit Cape Kennedy in Florida and the Johnson Space Center 

in Texas to review NASA’s activities, since it is the largest single 

authorization account under the Committee’s jurisdiction. 

In summary, I strongly believe that the Committee would benefit, on a bipartisan basis, from the increased funding being requested by our Chairman. 

Thank you, and I would be happy to answer any questions. 

I might add, since I have got a few seconds left, this is the most 

important Committee for the future of this Nation. 

[The statement of Ms. Johnson follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. There you go. That is on the record and official, 

and nobody is objecting to that statement. So we thank you both 

for your testimony and recognizing the importance of it. And I 

know we have, particularly this country and many of us that are, 

you know, my age have great pride in the history of NASA. And 

so your role there is to see that we are where we need to be. And 

so when you look at space exploration, you look at what they have 

done, your Committee has a critical role on that and among other 

that you have. So we will look at your requests and take a careful 

look at that. 

And I want to thank you both for your time. 

At this time, I will recognize the Ranking Member of the Committee, Mr. Brady, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I just want to, for the record, the one-third/two-thirds minoritymajority distribution is in effect? 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. Yes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Ranking Member. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

I now recognize the Vice Chair of the Committee, Mr. Davis, for 

5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Johnson. I appreciate your comments. And while we will not object to the comments 

about the status of the Committee, we too think our Committee is 

the best Committee in Congress. 

But, you know, you mentioned oversight and your oversight responsibilities in many of your comments. And I appreciate that, 

and I think it is something that we as authorizers don’t take advantage of enough sometimes. 

And, with that, do you think that, with your budget request that 

you have made, that you are going to be able to fulfill all of your 

oversight responsibilities? 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. Well, let me respond first. And I am happy 

to yield to the Ranking Member as well. 

Mr. Davis, the reason we have asked for a 2.8-percent increase 

is to do just what you suggested, that is, be able to execute our 

oversight responsibilities in a better way than we are right now. 

That 2.8-percent increase, as I mentioned a while ago, is an increase that we I think can justify. We have used almost all of our 

budget in the last Congress. And we will use these additional funds 

for oversight. We will use the additional funds for field hearings 

that we haven’t been able to conduct. 

And, also, if you take a look at our personnel, our staff ceiling 

is 67, but we only have 56 staff members now. So we have 11 vacancies. And so that 2.8-percent increase would allow us to conduct 

those additional oversight responsibilities, to attract staff that we 

need to do just that, and also to engage in more field hearings, 

which, of course, are staff-intensive as well. 

So let me also add, in the case of oversight, and I am not sure 

that all full Committees have a separate oversight subcommittee, 

229 

but we do, and that shows the importance that we attach to that 

responsibility. 

Also, if I may just respond to what the Chairman mentioned a 

while ago, and that is the interest of the American people in NASA 

in general and particularly among Members of Congress as well. 

The Ranking Member and I just came from a full Committee hearing, and the title of that full Committee hearing was ‘‘NASA: Past, 

Present, and Future.’’ And we had some of the best witnesses you 

can imagine, including two former astronauts, various scientists, 

and others talk about the future of NASA. And it really is a fascinating subject. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you. 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. Thank you. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, we wish you would have brought some of those 

fascinating witnesses here to join you today. 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. If you need those additional witnesses for 

that 2.8-percent, we will be able to bring them over here, I am 

sure. 

Mr. DAVIS. Ms. Johnson. 

Ms. JOHNSON. My response is very brief. I do agree with everything he is saying, and we celebrate that. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you. 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. I don’t hear that very often, that she agrees 

with everything I said. 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you need us to get her to say that one more 

time? 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. Yes. We are taping this. We will play it at 

Committee markups. 

Mr. DAVIS. We will do that only, Mr. Chairman, if you tell the 

Committee that the House Administration is the best Committee in 

the Congress. Would you do that? 

I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Davis yields back. 

I now recognize Mrs. Comstock for 5 minutes. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And having come over here for this hearing today from the 

Science Committee and those fascinating witnesses, I do agree and 

share the sentiments of our witnesses here and appreciate the good 

work we have. 

And I don’t know; you may have mentioned it, but it is a very 

high volume of hearings also. So we do cover quite a bit. And the 

staff are very, very good, as they are here also. 

Thanks. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady yields back. 

I now recognize Mr. Loudermilk for 5 minutes. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And, Mr. Chairman, in the 114th Congress, chairing the Oversight Subcommittee on the Science Committee, I can attest to just 

how busy that Committee really is and the tremendous work that 

it was doing, and looking forward to continuing working on that 

Committee in that light. And I think it is doing a tremendous 

amount of work, especially with the broad jurisdiction the Committee has. 

230 

Just one quick question. You have mentioned that, in the last 

Congress, the Committee used all but four-tenths of 1 percent of 

the budget. With these increased funds, do you believe that you can 

make similar efficient use of these moneys? 

Mr. SMITH of Texas. Absolutely. And I appreciate the question. 

Mr. Chairman, let me point out that both Mr. Loudermilk and 

Mrs. Comstock, as she said, are members of the Science Committee. So it is nice to be in good company here today. 

Mr. Loudermilk, in response to your question, yes, again, we 

used up virtually all of our budget in the last Congress, and we 

used it well. I believe we were particularly active in a number of 

ways. And our number one priority is really to try to reauthorize 

all the agencies under our jurisdiction, which hasn’t been done in 

20 years. And that is going to require a lot of staff time, a lot of 

personnel. And we want to do that better than we have in the past 

too. 

And then I mentioned a while ago the additional field hearings, 

the additional oversight that is necessary, as well as trying to fill 

some of those 11 vacancies that we have. And the 11 vacancies, by 

the way, are on both sides. That is the combination from both majority and the minority. And so we would like to, in effect, staff up. 

It doesn’t exceed our ceiling, but it is going to require some additional funds, and we think that 2.8 percent will just about be right. 

So I appreciate the question. 

Mr. LOUDERMILK. Yes. And let me say that the work the Oversight Committee has been doing has been tremendous, even uncovering things that other committees have not, like cybersecurity 

breaches with the FDIC that just through the work of this Committee was able to uncover and investigate. 

So, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

The Chairman. The gentleman yields back. 

And certainly the cybersecurity issues are extremely important 

in this Congress, and we appreciate the work. We will take a careful look at this. 

I appreciate you both being here. Thank you. 

Mr. Smith of Texas. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. I ask unanimous consent that testimony for the 

Committee on House Administration’s budget be entered into the 

record. 

Without objection, so ordered. 

[The statement of The Chairman follows:] 

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234 

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 1:16 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]