UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: WILLIAM CURTRIGHT Respondent
Wednesday, February 8, 2017 FDMS No. FAA-2015-1319 1

The teleconference convened, pursuant to notice, at 1:30 p.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, 

### u.s. Administrative Law Judge

(202) 234-4433 

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# RECE\VED FEB2 320\7 HEARING DOCKET

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNW.nealrgross.comAPPEARANCES: On behalf of the Complainant: DAVID F. SHAYNE, ESQ. of: Northwest Mountain Region, ANM-7 Federal Aviation Administration 1601 Lind Avenue, S.W. Renton, Washington 98057 425-227-1847 On behalf of the Respondent: DR. WILLIAM AMES CURTRIGHT, pro se P.O. Box 1350 Jefferson, Oregon 97352 503-209-7388

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(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 \foNo/W.nealrgross.comCONTENTS Exhibit Nos. Document Complainant 1-6 FAA's Cross-Motion Exhibits Respondent 1 2 3-5 6 7 8 Litigation/Scheduling Conference 8/9/16 Partial Copy of FAA Order 2150.3B Litigation/Scheduling Conference 8/9/16 Email to Marty Conroy 1-/14/15 and Speed Memo

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ID Rec'd

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1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (1:34 p.m.) 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We're on the 4 record in the matter of William Curtright. This 5 is FAA Docket FAA-2015-1319. Today is Wednesday, 6 February 8, 2017, and the parties have convened 7 for a second motion conference. 8 The FAA which I'11 hereinafter refer 9 to as the FAA and it stands for the Federal 10 Aviation Administration, is represented by its 11 attorney of record, Mr. David F. Shayne. The 12 Respondent, William Ames Curtright is 13 representing himself. 14 Also present at the Office of Hearings 15 is Mr. Cody L. Smith, an attorney advisor who is 16 sitting in today as an observer only. Mr. 17 Shayne, is there anyone else with you on the 18 line? 19 MR. SHAYNE: No, Your Honor. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Curtright, 21 same question to you. 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, my secretary is

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 'WINW.nealrgross.com5 1 here. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And who is that 3 please? 4 DR. CURTRIGHT: Susan Bird. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Could you spell her 6 last name? 7 DR. CURTRIGHT: B-I-R-D. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And she's here 9 as an observer only, is that correct? 10 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Okay. We 12 have a variety of different things to talk about, 13 primarily the two motions for summary judgment 14 that have been filed with the Court. 15 And I'm just going to review a couple 16 of things quickly because I think that will help 17 us. Essentially we talked about the Respondent's 18 motion for summary judgment a little bit in 19 detail when we last met on December 8, 2016. 20 And at that time we talked about the 21 Respondent's exhibits, those being Exhibits 1 22 through 12 attached to the motion itself and the

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www..nealrgross.com6 1 three reply exhibits identified as Reply Exhibits 2 1 through 3. All of those were admitted without 3 objection. 4 And we also talked about the fact that 5 the FAA had not proffered any fact evidence in 6 opposition to the Respondent's motion so that the 7 only exhibits that will be talked about when we 8 talk about the Respondent's motion are the 9 Respondent's Exhibits 1 through 12 and Reply 10 Exhibits 1 through 3. 11 And what we' 11 do is we're going to 12 talk about the Respondent's motion in its 13 entirety first and then when we're done with the 14 oral arguments on the Respondent's motion we will 15 talk about the FAA's cross-motion. I did ask the 16 parties to file supplemental materials giving me 17 legal authority in support of their positions and 18 both parties did so. 19 Specifically, I received on December 20 29, 2016, the FAA's submission of additional 21 authority and on January 13, 2017, the Respondent 22 filed the Respondent's submission of additional

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWN.nealrgross.com7 1 authority and motion to dismiss. These were both 2 supplemental filings per the direction of the 3 Court. 4 So I'm simply going to make it easy 5 for everybody and we'll call the FAA's December 6 29' 2016, material the FAA's supplemental. 7 Likewise, we'll call the January 13, 2017, 8 Respondent's submission as the Respondent's 9 supplemental. 10 Neither party indicated any particular 11 motion that the supplemental should be addressed 12 to so the Court will on the behalf of both 13 parties find that these supplemental materials 14 are applicable to both the Respondent's motion 15 and the FAA's cross-motion. 16 so when you're, when we're talking 17 about the Respondent's motion both parties may 18 refer to their supplemental materials. Same 19 thing for when we talk about the FAA's cross20 motion, the supplemental materials may be 21 referenced. So let's take 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: Your Honor.

NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com8 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 2 DR. CURTRIGHT: Dr. Ames here. May I 3 give you a point of order? 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, do you have a 5 preliminary matter you would like to address? 6 DR. CURTRIGHT: No, I think you said 7 the wrong case number. I think it should be Case 8 Number 2014. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Did I? Well, then I 10 will have to talk to my staff about that because 11 I have a variety of different things in my 12 package and if I have erred I want to correct 13 that. So let me double check. 14 Give me one moment. I've looked at a 15 variety of different materials, Mr. Curtright. 16 And according to my records this particular case 17 has always been identified as Docket Number FAA18 2015-1319. 19 DR. CURTRIGHT: I'm looking at this. 20 Give me a second here. One moment. 21 error, Your Honor. I apologize. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 I was in

Well then

www.nealrgross.com9 1 that's easy to fix. so, Mr. Shayne, any 2 preliminary matters before we go and talk about 3 the Respondent's motion? 4 MR. SHAYNE: No, Your Honor. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Curtright, any 6 other preliminary matters before I turn to you 7 for a brief argument on your motion? 8 DR. CURTRIGHT: No, I don't think so, 9 Your Honor. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Just so the 11 parties know, I've read all of your materials and 12 I've read all of the legal materials that you 13 have also cited. And I look forward to your 14 arguments. 15 So, as you all know since we talked 16 about this on December 8, 2016, each motion 17 stands or falls on its own. And Mr. Curtright 18 filed his motion first so I've identified that as 19 the first motion that we take up today for oral 20 argument. 21 Mr. Curtright, typically in these 22 situations you as the moving party would present

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1 your argument first. I would then turn to Mr. 2 Shayne as the responding party for his argument 3 after you are finished. 4 And then I would turn back to you, as 5 the movant, for a brief reply before we close 6 argument on your motion. When we go to the FAA's 7 cross-motion the reverse will be true. 8 Mr. Shayne will start off. You will 9 follow and then he will do a final reply at the 10 end. So typically what people do is they spend 11 between five and ten minutes presenting their 12 primary argument if they want to take that amount 13 of time. 14 I will reserve the right, as always, 15 to interrupt you. And if I interrupt you, you 16 want to stop talking, listen to the question I ' 17 ask and then respond as best you can. 18 There may be times when I don't 19 interrupt you at all. It's simply the Court's 20 way of addressing matters if you say something or 21 I'm reading something as you're talking about 22 material and I have a question.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRII3!0RS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 So with that,

www.nealrgross.com.., ,, 11 1 any questions about the process before we begin, 2 Mr. Curtright? 3 DR. CURTRIGHT: No, no questions, Your 4 Honor. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then why don't 6 I turn to you and I'11 ask you to take between 7 five and ten minutes, if you would like, to give 8 me a presentation about your primary issue on why 9 you think that you should be granted summary 10 judgment as a matter of law · based on the 11 materials that you have filed on this particular 12 case. 13 DR. CURTRIGHT: Okay. I go to my 14 response to the motion. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I'm going to 16 stop you. You do not use the materials that you 17 filed in response to the FAA's cross-motion. 18 That's a separate motion. 19 What you use and what you refer to is 20 your motion for summary judgment and you can 21 22 refer to your reply to that in that motion package.

(202) 234-4433 So you currently have a pretty

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com12 1 substantial motion that you filed that was filed 2 on October 26, 2016. 3 And as we've discussed earlier, you 4 submitted a total of 15 exhibits in both the 5 motion and then the reply material. So you can 6 take a look at all of that and you can explain to 7 me with that material why you should prevail in 8 your motion. 9 DR. CURTRIGHT: All right. My motion 10 for summary judgment was partially based as my 11 response for summary judgment. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I have to 13 correct you, sir, because each motion stands on 14 its own. And unless you incorporate material 15 from one to the other the Court is required to 16 look at them separately. 17 Now if the parties agree it's still 18 difficult because the Court then ends up having 19 to make some educated guesses about what should 20 and should not factor into the burden of proof 21 that each movant has. So I'm going to ask you at 22 this time to stand squarely on the materials that

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com13 1 you filed for your own motion before you go to 2 the response material that you filed in response 3 to the FAA's cross-motion. 4 There's a lot of material here and I 5 think you should be able, in looking at it, be 6 able to tell me very briefly why you think that 7 you should be granted summary judgment as a 8 matter of law. And it may be helpful if I point 9 you to a certain direction. 10 Would you like that kind of Court 11 assistance? 12 DR. CURTRIGHT: That would be good. 13 I think I could use that help. I'm going to try 14 to pull up those other documents I filed before 15 and look at those real briefly. But, yes, ma'am. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In essence, 17 and we talked about this on December 8, 2016, the 18 issue before the Court is very narrow because 19 most of the facts are agreed to by the parties. 20 The issue is whether or not as a 21 matter of law you have a right to dismissal on 22 the grounds that the evidence before the Court

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com14 1 shows that you reasonably produced records 2 pursuant to the charged regulation which in this 3 particular case, as you know, is let's see, 14 4 CFR Section 91.417(c). 5 And we talked a little bit on December 6 8, 2016, about the fact that this particular 7 regulation does not specify the specific time 8 period for production of the records. Do you 9 remember that discussion? 10 DR. CURTRIGHT: I remember some of it, 11 yes, Your Honor. I was, I guess I thought I was 12 free to speak freely in reference to my opinion 13 on the request for summary judgment. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You certainly are 15 welcome to argue from your material. And the 16 materials that you filed are both the motion that 17 was filed on October 26, 2016, as well as the 18 Respondent's reply that was filed on November 14, 19 2016 0 20 So I am looking forward to that 21 particular argument you have to make. And as I 22 had mentioned to you both already I am happy to

(202)234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 \NVIIW.nealrgross.com15 1 also give you full opportunity to utilize your 2 supplemental material and this material you filed 3 on January 13, 2013, to use both in your motion 4 argument and in your opposition argument. 5 So in that supplemental material, for 6 example, you say on Page 2, Paragraph 2 that 7 there is no case law that specifically addresses 8 a time period for production of records. And 9 that's what I think you're trying to say in terms 10 of your motion. 11 Could you elaborate a little bit on 12 why you think that because there's no specific 13 time frame in that regulation that any time frame 14 would do? 15 DR. CURTRIGHT: Are you there? 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 17 DR. CURTRIGHT: I'm sorry. I thought 18 I had lost you. All right. Ma'am, the

-- Your 19 Honor, first of all I wanted to say and I haven't 2

### o got all the documents in front of me which I'm 21 trying to find other references in reference to 22 this.

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1 I wanted to mention this was not an 2 accident. It was an incident. That was one of 3 the first things that was brought up by Mr. 4 Shayne and I felt that was incorrect. Are you 5 still there? 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 7 DR. CURTRIGHT: Okay. And unpleasant 8 things happen. Anyway, stand by for a second. I 9 just found one of my documents here. So anyway, 10 Your Honor, this is not an accident but it's an 11 incident. 12 I believe that the, Mr. Shayne or the 13 FAA didn't provide, imposing a fine is absolutely 14 ridiculous. The case law that we found had 15 nothing to do with the, this type of accident. 16 We provided documentation of all of the logs of, 17 you know, it wasn't flat out refusal. 18 We gave, we put all the documents and 19 got all the documents back together when we 20 finally found all the documents and prepared the 21 case, prepared all of the documents back to the 22 beginning of the aircraft, in fact it was I would

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WW-N.nealrgross.com17 1 say perfect condition, the logs were all perfect 2 condition in reference to the weight and balance. 3 And the first things that were 4 requested from us was weight and balance. And 5 those are the things that were provided. so, you 6 know, when we gave things to them we never got 7 responses back from the FAA. 8 So there was no precedent in this 9 case. The violation of Section 14 CFR 91.417 has 10 no -- there are no precedent cases. There are no 11 additional authorities, no case law that 12 addresses this case in reference to somebody not 13 providing documents under a lawsuit situation. 14 That's 14

-- I think I've got it right 15 here, 14 CFR 91.417(c) against the Respondent. 16 Let me look at my notes, Your Honor. In the 17 matter of the Scenic Air Incorporated FAA Order 18 2001, that's Docket Number CP98AL0008, FAA Order 19 1999-5568, which had to do with a $7,500 civil 20 penalty. And the law judge assessed Scenic about 21 $500 per violation. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I can't talk

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-- 2 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, ma'am. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We 're not talking 4 about the civil penalty today. You're moving in 5 your motion to have the matter resolved fully in 6 your favor on the grounds of the legal issue 7 regarding the timeliness of the production of 8 your documents. 9 If your motion is granted then the 10 civil penalty is gone because your request for 11 resolution that's on your behalf would be 12 granted. In the FAA's cross-motion they're not 13 asking for any kind of decision on this civil 14 penalty under the summary judgment standard. 15 They're only asking for a partial 16 summary judgment. So the whole issue of the 17 civil penalty, it has been put on ice essentially 18 pending a discussion of the timeliness issue. 19 You don't need to worry about the civil penalty 20 issue now. Does that resolve any concern you 21 have about that portion of your argument today? 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: All right.

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www.nealrgross.com19 1 civil penalty at this point sounds like it's 2 moot. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It's not moot. It's 4 simply reserved because in your motion, your 5 motion you don't need to address it because the 6 way you have presented your motion you are saying 7 that you did comply with the regulation. 8 And if that is in fact true then there 9 would be no penalty imposed because you would not 10 be in violation of safety regulations. In the 11 FAA's cross-motion, which we're not addressing 12 right now, they're claiming that a violation 13 occurred. 14 But they're only asking for summary 15 judgment on the violation portion of their 16 complaint not on the civil penalties. So the 17 summary judgment discussion today should not 18 include anything about the proposed civil 19 penalty. 20 That's for a later day. May I ask you 21 a question about one of your exhibits, sir? 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: Okay.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm looking 2 specifically at Exhibit Number 5 in your motion. 3 And this is a letter that is two pages long, 4 dated September 4, 2014. Do you have that in 5 front of you? 6 DR. CURTRIGHT: I'm looking for that 7 document. 8 MR. SHAYNE: I'm sorry, Your Honor. 9 This is David Shayne. I'm looking for it also. 10 What, could you repeat please where you're at? 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. We're 12 currently talking about the Respondent's motion. 13 MR. SHAYNE: Right, right. What 14 exhibit were you referring to? I'm sorry. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I identified as 16 Exhibit 5. Exhibit 5 is a two-page letter dated 17 September 4, 2014, that is on FAA letterhead. 18 So, Mr. Curtright, have you been able to locate 19 that yet? 20 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, I'm going to try 21 to take a minute here and digest it. So give me 22 a moment. I did find it.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com21 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 2 DR. CURTRIGHT: September 4, 2014, is 3 a certified mail special delivery letter of 4 investigation. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. And I'm going 6 to ask you to look on Page 1 of that two-page 7 letter. The first two paragraphs under your name 8 reference a letter dated July 1, 2014, by the FAA 9 asking for certain materials from you and then a 10 statement, which is Paragraph 2, saying to date 11 you hadn't provided certain material referenced. 12 And I want to ask you about that as 13 soon as you have a chance to read those two 14 paragraphs. 15 DR. CURTRIGHT: Where it says to date 16 you have not presented this office with air frame 17 and engine maintenance? 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. 19 DR. CURTRIGHT: What did you want me 20 to do with that? 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, my question to 22 you is this. I think everybody agrees that the

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNN.nealrgross.com22 1 regulation that you've been cited with which is 2 14 CFR Section 91.417(c) does not have a specific 3 time period for responding to an FAA's request 4 for documentation. 5 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, that's correct. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: However, there is an 7 argument to be made that the regulation should be 8 read with a reasonable standard and the question 9 here is that in this September 4, 2014, letter 10 there's a statement being proffered to you by the 11 FAA saying an investigation is occurring. 12 We have asked you for these records. 13 You haven't given us certain records. We think 14 this is contrary to the regulations and you 15 appear to be declining to participate in this FAA 16 investigation. 17 Isn't that enough, in your opinion, 18 for a reasonable person to be on notice that they 19 needed to have complied or that they need to 20 immediately comply with an FAA request for 21 production? And if it's not, why not? 22 DR. CURTRIGHT: I would say, no, Your

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1 Honor. But I also want to point out on the 2 document here these are unsigned documents by the 3 FAA and I'd like to point that out first which-- 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And why is that 5 important to you? 6 DR. CURTRIGHT: I think the importance 7 of it is that it's required by FAA regulations. 8 I can pull that out. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I have to interrupt, 10 sir. I'm interrupting. I have Exhibit 5 before 11 me. This is the exhibit that you submitted on 12 your behalf and you didn't submit the entire 13 letter. 14 You submitted Pages 1 and 2 only or 15 I'm sorry, yes, Page 1 and 2 only. So if the 16 lack of signature, just assuming it was relevant 17 to a letter of investigation was important, why 18 didn't you submit the whole letter? 19 DR. CURTRIGHT: Ma'am, may I 20 interrupt? I have received only Page 1 and 3 of 21 the letter. That's all I have. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, you submitted

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1 Pages 1 and 2. So you had Page 2 at a certain 2 point. I'm sorry, you have Page 3, excuse me. 3 You've identified it as Page 2 of your exhibit. 4 So you're saying now that you received 5 an incomplete letter that's dated September 4, 6 2014? 7 DR. CURTRIGHT: That is correct. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let's 9 talk then about Page 1 which you did get. Why 10 wouldn't Page 1 as it reads to both of us as we 11 sit here today, why wouldn't that tell you enough 12 to give you reasonable and sufficient notice that 13 you needed to produce those records? 14 DR. CURTRIGHT: Your Honor, I 15 represented everything that we had. We informed 16 the inspector at the time that they had lost some 17 of the documents. We would have to gather them 18 all up. 19 I explained that I was living in 20 Canada as well and my aircraft was down and 21 things that we did send to the FAA office was 22 ignored.

(202}234-4433 We did get, when we finally got FAA

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com25 1 attention with a letter of complaint we had a 2 nice visit with the FAA themselves. 3 But it didn't drop there. It 4 continued on to the legal aspects. Their legal 5 people didn't seem to want to provide us, Mr. 6 Shayne's office didn't seem to want to provide us 7 with any record that there was an inspection in 8 my office with the FAA with complete records. 9 It seems · like there was always 10 resistance in reference to trying to get them to 11 respond that we had sent them documents. It 12 wasn't until we filed the complaint that we 13 actually got a nice visit with two nice gentlemen 14 that went through the logs who I believe felt 15 totally satisfied that they were perfect. 16 But the FAA or Mr. Shayne says well we 17 should get something for our trouble and that's 18 the kind of, and with all due respect that didn't 19 seem right. And from that experience I have 20 wondered why we were not being user-friendly at 21 the FAA, not the actual people doing the 22 examination.

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1 But this also was, Your Honor, it was 2 not an accident. It was an incident where the 3 wheel collapsed after landing had occurred and 4 that's another issue I felt was kind of ignored 5 as well. It was on my private airport. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's talk a little 7 bit more about this September 4, 2014, letter. 8 You state that you presented all the information 9 to the FAA. 10 My understanding from your submission 11 and the discussion we had on December 8, 2016, is 12 that those submissions were provided to the FAA 13 on or about August 13, 2015. Is that still a 14 correct summary of the evidence the parties agree 15 to or are you saying now that you provided the 16 air frame and engine maintenance log book and the 17 complete record of your flight review at a time 18 different from August 13, 2015? 19 DR. CURTRIGHT: The answer is, yes. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What date was 21 it and what proof do you have in your motion to 22 show that date?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com27 1 DR. CURTRIGHT: Let me see if I can 2 find my notes here. I believe it was October 14, 3 2015, Your Honor. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: October 14, 2015? 5 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, ma'am. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So you're 7 saying you produced the record after August 14, 8 2015, not before? 9 DR. CURTRIGHT: Just hold for a 10 moment. Let me check. I want to check my 11 records. 12 On October 14, Your Honor, 2015 was 13 confirmation that the records were produced and 14 examined to the satisfaction of Mr. McGibbon, 15 Portland Flight Standards, FAA and we had a, 16 finally got the speed memo in reference to it 17 being done. And I have a number on that for the 18 reference for the lost logs. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So it sounds 20 like we're still all, you agree that the records 21 were produced on August 13, 2015. And my 22 question then becomes, and I'm going to stay with

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com28 1 the Exhibit 5 in your motion, it sounds as though 2 you take the position that you could have 3 produced them at any time of your own pleasing 4 based on the language of the regulation. 5 Is that a correct perception of your 6 argument that it could have been at any time, 7 that you had a right to produce the records 8 whenever you pleased? 9 DR. CURTRIGHT: Absolutely not, Your 10 Honor. My records are in Canada and I had to 11 gather them together. I had no aircrafts to get 12 up there and I'm a businessman. 13 So I'm in business, I mean doing, I 14 couldn't leave. So when I finally got everything 15 together we did produce them. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, how much time 17 should the public policy should the Court be 18 looking at then, in your opinion, for granting 19 Respondents, such as yourself time to produce 20 their records? What's a reasonable time? 21 22 Just whenever you get up to a place where you stored them. I mean tell me what you

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1 think makes sense for us in terms of looking at 2 this regulation and interpreting the provision 3 that requires parties to participate responsibly 4 in an FAA investigation. 5 DR. CURTRIGHT: I don't think you 6 understand, Your Honor, in reference to what was 7 occurring to begin with. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well 9 DR. CURTRIGHT: We produced documents 10 or I produced documents as they were requested 11 by the FAA. At first, at the scene I produced 12 documents and records. 13 And so, anyway, so when they asked for 14 more documents it was a, they might say an 15 ongoing process. They would ask for this and 16 then they would ask for that and then they would 17 act like they didn't get it. 18 And then it was that kind of 19 discombobulated, you might say. The first thing 20 they were asking for was weight and balance. And 21 where is your weight and balance record, you 22 know.

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com30 1 They weren't asking for the logs. 2 They were asking for the weight and balance of 3 what was in the documents that we did have. And 4 so anyway, they were produced. We did produce 5 documents. 6 We did produce logs that we had. But 7 not everything was there. And so I think I had a 8 couple of the logs, propeller logs or something 9 like that we didn't, things weren't all together. 10 So anyway, when we finally got it all 11 together we presented it as they asked for it. 12 And then out of frustration that's when we wrote 13 the letter to the FAA office. 14 To my pleasure we received a phone 15 call and a visit which we left them in a room, in 16 a conference room with all the documents they had 17 and, you know, and they were, so we presented 18 some of the logs. 19 But they weren't looking for all of 20 the logs to begin with. They were looking for 21 the weight and balance. So they were going, 22 first I need this and then I need this, need

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com31 1 this. And then finally they got everything. 2 And we had a meeting. Everybody was 3 happy. And that's when I, finally after several 4 months I called Mr. Shayne up and I said well, 5 where's the, don't you know about this inspection 6 that we had. 7 And, you know, well, yes, I did see an 8 email. Well did you, can you not send me a copy 9 of that email? And I had to actually pull teeth 10 in order to get Mr. Shayne to send me a copy of 11 the email. 12 So I'm saying that there needs to be 13 a lot of improvement and I felt with the 14 efficiency of the FAA, maybe they're 15 understaffed. They have a lot of things to do. 16 But the people in Portland were great. 17 When it got to the prosecution level, compliance 18 wasn't important. How long does it take for an 19 aircraft investigation to go down? Why should it 20 be stretched out over issues? 21 Is the rules for, any different from 22 the rules for them from the FAA regulations?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 "WWW.nealrgross.com32 1 These are questions that I felt should be 2 answered and challenged. It's not just me trying 3 to get away with something. 4 It's a matter of making the system 5 work better. I don't know if that makes any 6 sense. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I've heard everything 8 that you've said and I understand it all. My 9 question again on the September 4, 2014, letter 10 that is presented as Exhibit 5 in your motion it 11 states to you that you had not presented the FAA 12 with, and I'm going to just say number one, air 13 frame and engine maintenance log books for 14 aircraft N, as in Nancy, 949-JP, and number two, 15 a complete record of your required flight review 16 that includes the instructor's endorsement 17 signature. And from what we talked about it 18 sounds like you produced those records to the FAA 19 for inspection on August 13, 2015. 20 And at that time, at that inspection 21 time the FAA inspectors found the records to be 22 in good working order. The problem that I see

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 1/'No/W.nealrgross.com33 1 and the reason that we're all here is that the 2 production of those records occurred almost a 3 year after this letter was sent to you. 4 And the FAA is asserting that's an 5 unreasonable period of time to take to produce 6 records during an inspection. You're saying, in 7 contrast that this is an okay thing. 8 So I want you to explain to me why, in 9 your opinion, it's okay to wait almost a year to 10 produce records that have been requested of you. 11 Explain that so that I can grant your motion if I 12 can. 13 DR. CURTRIGHT: We explained the 14 problem to the FAA. We asked for an extension of 15 time. We were getting very little of a response, 16 Your Honor, out of the FAA. 17 They were initially asking for other 18 things for the and we would show them 19 everything that we had at the point. We thought 20 it was a closed issue at that point. But other 21 things kept popping up like the weight and 22 balance when it was finally presented.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com34 1 But anyway, it took a meeting to get 2 everything because of the communication problems 3 with the FAA it took a meeting in getting their 4 attention to get it all cleared up. Anyway, and 5 so the meeting goes and this issue. 6 But until we got in the conference 7 room in my office with two investigators who very 8 much appreciated the very good condition 9 everything was as far as files go, it took that 10 time to get it done. And who can explain it? 11 I can't tell you why it took that long 12 on the FAA's part. But we did our best. We had 13 to gather logs together and documents together 14 and get everything prepared for you to come on in 15 and take a look at this. 16 So initially we were only asked for a 17 few things. We weren't asked for everything all 18 at once. And so we did, I did the best I could. 19 And there was no intent of depriving anybody of 20 anything. 21 And so we simply asked for some 22 additional time. And the initial things were for

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com35 1 weight and balance. And the initial documents 2 that we had were shown at the aircraft when the 3 first inspector came out. 4 And but it almost seems like initially 5 that they were trying to create, to me, a 6 situation. But when we finally got to the visit 7 and put everything together it looked like they 8 were very, very satisfied with what we had 9 presented and we thought it was the end of it. 10 And anyway and the gentlemen were very 11 polite and that's what I would expect the FAA to 12 be like. But the other initial part didn't, you 13 know, they would ask for this one and then this 14 item and this item and they pretended like when I 15 sent it to them like they had never got it. 16 And I said did you get it? And, you 17 know, they didn't have anybody to communicate 18 with. It was usually by letters, sending a 19 letter to them and it was a long, it wasn't just 20 my side. It was the other side to, if you 21 understand. 22 I don't know if that's making sense.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com36 1 But there was never any intent on my part to hold 2 things back. Now there are people in the past 3 I'm sure that had a lot of fines. 4 And the CFR 91.417(c) doesn't state 5 when somebody has to produce documents. It seems 6 to me that's what the FAA is not getting. And 7 the cases that they brought up, one case that I 8 saw the case law basically where somebody was 9 fined was because they flat out refused to give 10 any documents. 11 And that never occurred with me. We 12 were trying to be cooperative and we never 13 received the cooperation that was needed from the 14 FAA at that point except for when they came down 15 and visited us which went very well. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's talk about one 17 other document that's in your motion packet. And 18 this is a document that is identified as Exhibit 19 12. 20 It's a letter dated September 9, 2014, 21 sent by you on your letterhead to the FAA. Do 22 you have that before you?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com37 1 DR. CURTRIGHT: Let me look for it, 2 Your Honor. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Again, you've marked 4 it and submitted it as Exhibit 12. 5 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, I have it. It 6 will take me a moment to go over it. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: This is on Page 8 DR. CURTRIGHT: Go ahead and ask your 9 question. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Page 1 of Exhibit 12. 11 It's the first full paragraph under the words 12 dear sir. 13 And you're explaining on September 9, 14 2014, to the FAA that you have aircraft logs that 15 are not in the United States, instead they are in 16 Canada where you also live. Do you see that 17 paragraph? 18 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, I do. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So as of 20 September 9, 2014, according to the evidence 21 you've submitted you're acknowledging that you 22 still had not produced the aircraft logs that had

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com38 1 been requested by the FAA and this letter does 2 not attach them. 3 From your perspective, what period of 4 time after September 9, 2014, did you have to 5 produce the records that were in Canada, where 6 you lived, in response to the FAA's request for 7 production? 8 DR. CURTRIGHT: Your Honor, we didn't 9 know where the logs were for sure. Anyway, so it 10 was a matter of gathering things together. And 11 the period of time that's sort of like let's 12 there is no, I don't think there is a period of 13 time when you're trying to put things back 14 together. 15 You know, sometimes rebuilding an 16 aircraft it takes several, what you think would 17 be take six months it takes three years. Anyway, 18 so what I'm saying I sometimes it takes time to 19 get things done. 20 And sometimes you don't expect things 21 to take as long as they have. Sometimes we have, 22 people have personal problems and sometimes you

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1 can't get things done. And so you ask for I need 2 additional time in order to try to gather 3 everything together. 4 The bottom line is that we did get 5 everything together and we did present 6 everything. If you had put together a thesis, 7 for instance, I think you wouldn't necessarily 8 publish the thesis until after you had it 9 perfect. 10 To me I wanted to have everything 11 perfect. And so we presented things as we got 12 them together properly so we could have one 13 meeting where everybody was satisfied instead of, 14 you know, and Mr. Shayne never carne down in the 15 middle of this and looked at the documents and 16 thought everything looked great. 17 The FAA did. And definitely we did 18 communicate with the FAA, they resisted. And 19 when we sent them things they got hidden when we, 20 when things go like that, you know, when you 21 don't have transparency in reference to we have 22 miscommunications and delays and I think those

(202} 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com40 1 things can be improved on within our government 2 and within the FAA. 3 And so that government is supposed to 4 serve us, in some respect, is it not? Those are 5 how I feel. They can fine me into oblivion, you 6 can and call it right. But this isn't right and 7 that's my argument here. 8 I think something is wrong. And so, 9 you know, I've made an issue out of this and a 10 reference to taking it on. I have learned in 11 reading through all of the documentations and 12 looking at research a very disturbing picture 13 where hundreds of thousands of dollars are being 14 fined, pilots are and companies are being fined. 15 And there is no balance. They just 16 roll over and pay it because the balances of 17 justice are wrong here. This needs to be fixed. 18 I think and I hope under this new administration 19 that we do really need to have less government 20 and more cooperation and more helpful people in 21 this FAA. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me jump in.

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1 DR. CURTRIGHT: I'm sorry. That's 2 what I feel. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to ask you 4 a little bit more about that and then I'm going 5 to turn to Mr. Shayne. If, as you say a 6 Respondent to an FAA investigation has the 7 ability to choose whatever time works best for 8 his or her situation to respond to a request for 9 production of records, how can the FAA reasonably 10 enforce any regulation if it is subject to 11 unlimited time delays from the people it's 12 supposed to serve? 13 DR. CURTRIGHT: There wasn't any 14 unlimited time delay. There was a massive amount 15 of miscommunication in reference to 16 acknowledgment of what we did send them. 17 When we finally got what we wanted was 18 a visit from two officers from the Federal 19 Aviation Administration it was taken care of. 20 But it wasn't until we had this meeting in this 21 room could we come to a solution. 22 And that's the problem, okay. There

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNW.nea!rgross.com42 1 wasn't any, it was more like no one was talking. 2 No one was really communicating. When we asked, 3 when they sent something off requesting something 4 you didn't get a response. 5 What do you need? Do you understand 6 I need a little bit more time to find this item? 7 There are a lot of things to put in a log. We 8 put the logs back together when we presented them 9 and we took it aircraft to the point where weight 10 and balance was back at the very beginning. 11 But we should be allotted the time 12 necessary. Most pilots don't have that kind of 13 research capability I think to go back and put 14 things back together where the aircraft was built 15 and what the weight and balance was way back 16 then. 17 That takes time to research things. 18 It takes time to write papers, you know. And 19 that's my point. A lot of times, I don't know, 20 that's the big question what it takes to do 21 something. 22 I don't think our allotted time was

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com43 1 unreasonable. Anyway, and that's all I have to 2 say about that. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well if you take the 4 position that the time period you utilized was 5 reasonable, what, in your opinion, would have 6 been an unreasonable time? 7 DR. CURTRIGHT: I think possibly over 8 two years. But since it takes time research 9 things and time to go travel from Point A to 10 Point B, when you have no aircraft to fly around 11 it's kind of hard. 12 So you get pretty busy. And I'm a 13 pretty busy guy like you are, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And let me, I'll ask 15 one more question. I understand that you prefer 16 to fly your own aircraft. But since your 17 aircraft in this particular circumstance was not 18 flyable, what prevented you from simply taking a 19 flight on United, Delta, Alaska or any other 20 airline carrier that would have taken you to the 21 location you needed to be to get your records? 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: I 'm the CEO of a

NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com44 1 business, a company, Your Honor. And I'm 2 involved in a lot of political things. I just 3 returned from Korea. 4 And so I'm a bit jet lagged this 5 morning. I picked up some documents from Mr. 6 Shayne. And anyway, I was presently at the 7 International Association of Parliamentarians for 8 Peace International Leadership Conference in 9 North Korea. 10 And I am extremely busy. And I was 11 there with, if you wish to verify that the 12 Honorable Dan Burton and the Honorable Barbara

-- 13 John Doolittle, and

-- 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I don't need to 15 verify that, Mr. Curtright. Thank you very much. 16 DR. CURTRIGHT: I wasn't sure if you 17 were going to bring it up later on. That's why I 18 mentioned it. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well if he does we'll 20 turn to you for more information. Do you have 21 anything else that you would like to add to your 22 motion at this point?

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1 DR. CURTRIGHT: Let me check my notes. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 3 DR. CURTRIGHT: Well, Your Honor, I 4 think the reasonable time would have been a year. 5 But the circumstance did not allow that. And a 6 number of things involved. 7 One, was the communication, it was the 8 lack of communications that was going on with the 9 FAA. But we asked for extensions and responses 10 weren't forthcoming. 11 And so I asked for, so we produced 12 what we had. The first things that were asked 13 for were weight and balance. And then it just, 14 you know, time going back and forth with letter 15 communications was slow and discombobulated. 16 And I can't, I don't know if you've 17 run into that before. But it's what I was 18 experiencing up here in Oregon. Maybe the 19 offices are, people, you know, maybe they move 20 around, maybe in administration. I don't know. 21 But when we finally got it all done is 22 when we had the meeting in this room and we

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com46 1 presented everything we could get to them and 2 they were all happy with what we had. But 3 sometimes things take time and that's what 4 occurred here. 5 It was not my intent, I would love to 6 have that meeting earlier and it's not easy for 7 me to get away from my business. I have a lot of 8 people depending upon me and that's where I'm at. 9 So anyway, that's my statement to you. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right. Thank you 11 very much. Mr. Shayne, I'm going to turn to you 12 and this is specifically your time to take a few 13 minutes to talk about your response in opposition 14 to the Respondent's motion for summary judgment. 15 You filed a two page document without 16 any evidentiary support on November 3, 2016. 17 Would you care to just chat very briefly about 18 why you oppose the motion for summary judgment? 19 MR. SHAYNE: Thank you, Your Honor. 20 I'm sorry. I'm a little bit lost in the weeds 21 here with all of the different things that are 22 going on.

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1 You said, I filed a motion for summary 2 judgment. I'm looking to see when I filed that 3 was, a different? 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, it is, sir. And 5 as we talked about earlier today the two motions 6 occurred and are considered separately. 7 MR. SHAYNE: Right. So I'm trying to 8 understand what document you're referring to the 9 November 3rd one. I didn't have that one in 10 front of me. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: This is entitled 12 Claimant's Response to Respondent's Motion for 13 Summary Judgment. 14 MR. SHAYNE: Sorry, got it. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Dated November 3, 16 2016, and it was filed with me the same day. You 17 may also, as the Court noted, refer to your 18 supplemental materials in this particular section 19 of the Respondent's motion. 20 So looking at the Respondent's 21 exhibits that we briefly touched upon today and 22 having reviewed all of them prior to today, why

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nea!rgross.com48 1 does the FAA disagree with the Respondent? 2 MR. SHAYNE: Your Honor, I would 3 respectfully move that you reconsider your 4 structuring of the arguments allowing me to 5 address both my reply and my primary motion for 6 summary judgment at the same time. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Your motion is 8 denied. 9 MR. SHAYNE: I don't really, the only 10 thing I can say is Respondent is wrong. There is 11 no, he has failed, let me back up. I do wish to 12 take issue with a couple of statements that he 13 made, one that I absolutely have to address 14 although it's not in the record. 15 His allegation that it was like 16 pulling teeth to get me to acknowledge that he 17 had finally met with the FSDO to finally present 18 the records that are the subject of this 19 proceeding is not only false but the exact 20 opposite is the case. 21 I facilitated. He approached me and 22 said well I now have the documents that you folks

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1 are looking for. I said, great. Contact Marty 2 Conroy and show them to him. Set up an 3 appointment. 4 I called Marty Conroy and I said hey, 5 Marty, I understand Dr. Curtright now has the 6 documents. Why don't take a look at them and 7 maybe we can get this matter resolved? 8 As far as the memo that he's referring 9 to that came from William McGibbon I acknowledged 10 that I received that and forwarded it to him as 11 soon as I got it. It took me a while to get it 12 from Mr. McGibbon. 13 If you look at his exhibit it says, it 14 shows Bill McGibbon apologizing to me for not 15 having forwarded this information sooner. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well why don't you 17 MR. SHAYNE: So I just want to 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm interrupting you. 19 What exhibit are you referencing to the Court? 20 MR. SHAYNE: It's in his motion for 21 summary judgment. I've navigated away from that 22 so now I have to go and find that again. But

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nea\rgross.com50 1 there is a memorandum. 2 This is what he was going on and on 3 about how I somehow was trying to stonewall 4 resolution of this matter when the exact opposite 5 is the case. So it was his original. 6 It's in one of the exhibits, his 7 original motion for summary judgment. I'm 8 looking for it now. It's a memo from Bill 9 McGibbon to me. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well it's usually 11 helpful to identify the exhibit by the exhibit 12 number. Do you have an exhibit number for me? 13 MR. SHAYNE: I'm looking, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Is it perhaps 15 Exhibit Number 2? 16 MR. SHAYNE: Yes. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 18 MR. SHAYNE: That is correct. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Anything else that 20 you would like to talk about in terms of the 21 Respondent's motion? 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. SHAYNE: I find it difficult to

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com51 1 address the evidence outside the context of my 2 motion for summary judgment. I would just make 3 the general statement that the evidence does not 4 support his position. 5 You know, the position that he's 6 taking is that his response was reasonable. 7 There is no evidence that he ever asked for time. 8 There's no evidence he actually said to me, hey, 9 those records are in Canada. 10 I, you know, I will go get them or 11 intend to be there. I'll get them to you in 12 three months. And in fact one of the exhibits I 13 submitted with my summary judgment shows the 14 exact opposite. 15 So I would simply ask Your Honor to 16 find that he has failed to demonstrate as a 17 matter of fact that his delay was reasonable and 18 he's also failed to cite any law to support his 19 argument that it's quite okay to wait over a year 20 and a half and after the matter is already knee 21 deep in litigation to respond. 22 And again, when I get to talk about my

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com52 1 motion I'll address that further. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. Mr. 3 Curtright, this is your motion. You have a right 4 of final reply. Do you have any final comments 5 you would like to make before we close argument 6 on this particular motion? 7 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, give me a moment 8 to get my thoughts together. Just one moment. 9 I'm going to look at my notes for a second. 10 Okay. 11 Your Honor, I think that I would like 12 to put two things on reference to case law in the 13 record and this is in reference to Respondent's 14 reply memorandum in support of the motion and 15 memorandum for summary judgment. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, we're not 17 talking about Mr. Shayne's motion right now. 18 We're talking about your motion. So do you have 19 any final reply? 20 You did file a reply to your motion 21 and the Court has read it. Do you want to rest 22 on that or do you have something you would like

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNW.nealrgross.com53 1 to explain about it? 2 DR. CURTRIGHT: No, I rest on that, 3 ma'am. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 5 Well we've obviously spent more time than we had 6 originally anticipated on just the Respondent's 7 motion. We're probably going to run over a 8 little bit of time past the 3 o'clock scheduled 9 hour. 10 And I would like to do that if both 11 parties are available and the court reporter is 12 available. Mr. Curtright, are you available so 13 we can finish up? 14 DR. CURTRIGHT: About how much longer? 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well I'm hoping to be 16 done by 3:15 at the latest. 17 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, we'll make, we'll 18 go for it. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and, Mr. 20 Shayne? 21 MR. SHAYNE: That would be fine with 22 me, Your Honor. But I would like to take a three

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com54 1 minute break before we convene. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I think that's 3 wise. It's about 2, it's almost 20 until. So 4 why don't we reconvene about a minute before 5 3:45. And I'm just going to keep the line open 6 but we'll go off the record at this time. 7 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 8 went off the record at 2:39 p.m. and resumed at 9 2:44p.m.) 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're back on the 11 record in the matter of William A. Curtright. 12 This is Docket Number FAA-2015-1319. We have 13 reconvened after approximately a four minute 14 recess. 15 All parties previously identified have 16 returned to the conference line and we're ready 17 to start with the FAA's cross-motion. Mr. 18 Shayne, what I need to do first is talk to Mr. 19 Curtright about the exhibits that you have 20 proffered. 21 I'll then turn to you to discuss the 22 exhibits that Mr. Curtright has proffered and

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nea!rgross.com55 1 then we can into oral arguments. So, Mr. 2 Curtright, the FAA in its cross motion has 3 proffered six exhibits, identified as 1 through 4 6. 5 Do you have any admissibility 6 objections to any of these exhibits? 7 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, I do. But give 8 me a few moments here. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 10 DR. CURTRIGHT: I apologize, ma'am, 11 Your Honor, about my inexperience about the 12 proper correctness in the courtroom. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're doing just 14 fine, Mr. Curtright. But it is helpful if you 15 could tell me what objection you might have to 16 any of these exhibits on the grounds of 17 admissibility. 18 DR. CURTRIGHT: I 'm not, trying to 19 pull my thoughts together. So if you can just 20 give me a moment and I will try to, pardon my 21 taking time to pull together my notes, if you 22 don't mind.

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1 I think that all my exhibits here are 2 case law, Your Honor, and I have already 3 presented them. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, no, we 1re not 5 talking about your exhibits. We're talking about 6 the FAA's exhibits. The FAA has submitted six 7 exhibits. 8 DR. CURTRIGHT: I meant their case 9 law, Your Honor. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. But we're just 11 talking about their exhibits right now. Do you 12 have the FAA's cross-motion before you? 13 DR. CURTRIGHT: No. Give me a moment. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Curtright, if you 15 don't have that cross-motion before you I'm happy 16 to reserve your right to file a written objection 17 after we're done with oral argument. Mr. 18 Curtright. 19 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, ma'am. These are 20 the exhibits I think that basically we're, we 21 didn't get all of it. They didn't send all of it 22 to us.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Originally the cross2 motion was filed with both you and me without the 3 attachments. We talked about that on December 8, 4 2016. 5 It was the reason that I continued 6 this conference, the motion conference to a 7 different date so that you and I could both get 8 copies of the attachments. So the question is, 9 do you have any objection to the admissibility of 10 the exhibits which are identified as 1 through 6? 11 DR. CURTRIGHT: I don't have any 12 objections. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then I'm going 14 to note that there's no objection and I will 15 admit Exhibits 1 through 6. And I 'm going to 16 take a look at, they were deemed as admissible 17 for this particular proceeding. 18 Now, Mr. Shayne, let's look at the 19 Respondent's exhibits. The Respondent filed a 20 total of eight exhibits in the Respondent's 21 response in objection to the FAA's cross-motion. 22

(202) 234-4433 And I would note initially that

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WoNW.nealrgross.com58 1 Exhibit 1 are the Respondent's exhibits, has 13 2 attachments. 3 MR. SHAYNE: Excuse me, Your Honor. 4 What date was that motion filed? 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The response and 6 objection? 7 MR. SHAYNE: Yes. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: To FAA's motion for 9 partial decision was filed with the Court on 10 November 22, 2016. 11 MR. SHAYNE: I'm looking for it, 12 November 22nd? 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That's correct. 14 MR. SHAYNE: I think I have it. I'm 15 opening it up right now. Respondent's Response 16 and Objection of Claimant's Motion of Partial 17 Summary Judgment. I have it, Your Honor. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Good. 19 MR. SHAYNE: What was your question? 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The question to the 21 FAA is in regard to the admissibility of Exhibits 22 1 through 8.

(202) 234-4433 And I would note that Exhibit 7

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com59 1 appears to be missing from the Court's file. And 2 we can talk about that in just a minute. 3 But do you have a complete copy of 4 Exhibit 7, Mr. Shayne? 5 MR. SHAYNE: The copy that I just 6 opened up doesn't seem to have any exhibits 7 attached to it. Are we talking about the same 8 document it was filed in its response and 9 objection to Complainant's motion for partial 10 decision 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 12 MR. SHAYNE: for summary judgment 13 and it's dated, can you describe the exhibit? 14 Maybe I can, maybe I've seen it elsewhere. What 15 is it? 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm asking you if you 17 have a copy of Exhibits 1 through 8 attached to 18 the Respondent's November 22, 2016, response and 19 objection to your cross-motion. 20 MR. SHAYNE: I don't have any exhibits 21 attached in the PDF version in my electronic 22 file. Can you hear me?

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 2 MR. SHAYNE: I'm walking over to my 3 physical file which has gotten very big. I'm 4 looking through there. Okay. I found the 5 physical file. 6 And it appears to have exhibits, okay. 7 So you're asking about Exhibit 7. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm asking you first 9 and foremost if you have Exhibits 1 through 8. 10 MR. SHAYNE: Yes. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, good. Exhibit 12 7 in the Court's copy is missing. Do you have a 13 complete copy of Exhibit 7? 14 MR. SHAYNE: As far as I can tell I 15 do. It's a single page. Wait a minute, no. You 16 know what, Your Honor. I 'm terribly sorry. 17 That's Exhibit 3 and I was looking at Page 7 of 18 Exhibit 3. 19 My apologies. I'm still thumbing 20 through. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll tell you what 22 folks. I am really interested in having both

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com61 1 parties appear before the Court with materials in 2 hand ready to go. 3 MR. SHAYNE: Well, Your Honor, I don't 4 have an Exhibit 7. I only have Exhibits 1 5 through 5. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Are you missing 7 Exhibit 8? 8 MR. SHAYNE: Yes. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Are you missing 10 Exhibit 6? 11 MR. SHAYNE: It would so seem. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And we're both 13 missing Exhibit 7? Mr. Curtright, let's turn to 14 you. According to the Court's record Exhibit 6 15 is a partial copy of FAA Order 2150.3B. Is that 16 correct according to the materials you filed? 17 DR. CURTRIGHT: I think I have all the 18 documents here. I just have to look through it 19 because I'm not as fast on my feet as you are, 20 Your Honor. So give me a moment. 21 for Exhibit 6 right now, Your Honor. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

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Well I think

www.nealrgross.com62 1 I am going to, I think I am going to ask the 2 parties to do this for me. Mr. Curtright, I need 3 a copy of your missing Exhibit 7, whatever it is. 4 If for some reason you may have 5 misnumbered your exhibits and you only have seven 6 exhibits instead of eight then we need to know 7 that. Obviously the FAA is missing Exhibits 6, 7 8 and 8. 9 The FAA has a right to have those 10 exhibits before we move into argument about this 11 cross-motion. 12 DR. CURTRIGHT: Your Honor, I have the 13 exhibits. I have the exhibits here. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Good. So I'm going 15 to ask you to resend to the FAA Exhibits 6, 7 and 16 8. I'm going to ask you to file with the Court 17 your missing Exhibit 7. When do you think you 18 can do that? 19 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: Right away. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well MR. SHAYNE: Your Honor. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, Mr. Shayne.

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1 MR. SHAYNE: I'm going to ask Mr. 2 Curtright what Exhibit 7 is. It may be in the 3 record someplace else already. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It may be in your 5 record, sir. But I can assure you it's not in 6 mine. Mr. Curtright, what is Exhibit 7? 7 DR. CURTRIGHT: It says federal, it's 8 Page 32 and it's the commenced on it says here 9 Federal Aviation Administration matter William A. 10 Curtright for litigation scheduling conference/ 11 telephone in the above-entitled matter commenced 12 on Tuesday, August 9, 2016, at 1:34 p.m. 13 MR. SHAYNE: It sounds like it's a 14 record of the Court, Your Honor. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, Mr. Shayne

-- 16 MR. SHAYNE: If it's a record of the 17 Court then I would respectfully suggest that we 18 don't need to delay this proceeding for that. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. 20 Shayne. Mr. Curtright, tell me again what the 21 title is of Exhibit 7. 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: The

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www.nealrgross.com64 1 scheduling conference via telephone in the above2 entitled matter commenced on Tuesday, August 9, 3 2016. And then there's a Page 32 as well. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what is Page 32 5 about? 6 DR. CURTRIGHT: Initial disclosures 7 that I'm talking about are outlined in Rule 26 of 8 the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. That's 9 something you can find on the line typed in the 10 rules in Civil Procedure Rule 26. 11 It also says for the FAA they should, 12 they also should be giving you an explanation why 13 they're proposing $11,000 as the penalty. What 14 forms the basis for that? 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I'm wondering 16 if you're talking about a transcript proceeding. 17 Is that what you're referencing to the Court, 18 some type of transcript? 19 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, it is, ma'am, 20 Your Honor. It is the transcript of you speaking. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well that's helpful. 22 We have as Exhibit 2 in our materials a

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com65 1 transcript of the August 9, 2016, litigation 2 scheduling conference. 3 And part of that exhibit is the cover 4 page to the court reporter's transcript and then 5 Page 32. 6 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That's identified as 8 Exhibit 2 in your materials. Do you know what 9 Exhibit 7 is? 10 MR. SHAYNE: Excuse me, Your Honor. 11 I just noticed that the document in the copy I 12 have is marked "Exhibit 2 and 7''. I did not see 13 that before. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. 15 Shayne. Mr. Curtright, turning back to you, can 16 you tell me if Exhibit 7 is different from 17 Exhibit 2 in any way? 18 DR. CURTRIGHT: I believe it's the 19 same. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then it's not 21 missing. I'll just say that it's a duplicate of 22 Exhibit 2. Thank you.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWN.nealrgross.com66 1 And, Mr. Shayne, just so that you know 2 Exhibit 6 in my packet of materials is a partial 3 copy of FAA Order 2150.3B specifically Appendix 4 H, Page H-5. 5 MR. SHAYNE: Okay. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit 8 of the 7 Respondent's response is identified as an October 8 14, 2

### o15, email that appears to be to Marty 9 Conroy, cc Bill McGibbon and it's an inspector 10 statement followed by a partial copy of FAA Order 11 2150.3B, specifically Page 2-4 and then again H12 5. 13 And then there's a continuation of an 14 email dated October 14, 2015, from you, Mr. 15 Shayne to Mr. Curtright. And then a copy, same 16 copy of the speed memo that is the first page of 17 Exhibit 8. 18 MR. SHAYNE: Is that the same exhibit 19 we were discussing before where Bill McGibbon 20 says to me, sorry, here it is? We were just 21 talking about it. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That is part of the

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com67 1 Exhibit 8. The speed memo, however, is something 2 entitled speed memo. 3 MR. SHAYNE: Right, and that's the 4 statement from, I think, Inspector Conroy saying 5 I examined Dr. Curtright's records and they're 6 all in order. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 8 MR. SHAYNE: Right. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well knowing that, 10 can you proceed and give me a proffer of your 11 objections, if any, to the Respondent's exhibits 12 identified as 1 through 8? 13 MR. SHAYNE: I don't really have any, 14 I mean some of them aren't really exhibits. 15 There's case law here. But, you know, as far as 16 I'm concerned I think this case is very 17 straightforward. 18 I don't want to get bogged down in 19 arguments over documents. I have no objections 20 to, you know, to his admitting these documents. 21 To what weight they should be given is a 22 completely different matter.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll note that the 2 FAA has no admissibility objections to the 3 Respondents exhibits. I will basically be ruling 4 on the admissibility of the exhibits in the order 5 that I issue. 6 So the record should simply note that 7 there's been no objection to the admissibility 8 and that's true for the Respondent's lack of 9 objection to the FAA's exhibits. I'll rule on 10 whether exhibits are actually deemed admissible 11 in my order. 12 so having taken care of that 13 preliminary matter, Mr. Shayne, this is your 14 cross-motion. Would you care to take a few 15 minutes to identify for your cross-motion in 16 favor of partial summary judgment why you think 17 that you should be granted the relief you have 18 requested? 19 MR. SHAYNE: I don't have a lot to add 20 to what I've written. I just want to talk about 21 a couple of exhibits. This is basically, 22 Respondent has attempted to characterize this

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WINW.nealrgross.com69 1 case as a situation where he was communicating 2 with the FAA and trying to set up a schedule or 3 a, you know, create an agreement with the FAA to 4 provide the requested records. 5 And that simply is not borne out by 6 the evidence. And I would refer Your Honor to 7 the last exhibit, I hope it's the last exhibit. 8 I believe Exhibit 6 that we attached to our, yes, 9 to our motion for summary judgment which is a 10 statement of record by Mr. Conroy which has not 11 been challenged on its factual basis. 12 And this really is the problem of the 13 case. Mr. Conroy then asked Mr. Curtright, 14 Curtright, sorry, if he could provide me a future 15 date when he would be able to recover them. 16 Mr. Curtright responded he did not 17 expect to travel to Canada any time in the near 18 future because he was running a business. And 19 clearly his entire position was in the beginning 20 is you want the records that's, you know, too bad 21 for you. 22 Much, much later than that and I did

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com70 1 not supply that evidence to the Court. Part of 2 the problem is the evidence is me. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well I'm going to 4 stop you again, sir, because your motion is based 5 on the evidence that you've 6 MR. SHAYNE: I understand, Your Honor. 7 All I'm saying is he has changed his position and 8 in his pleadings you can see this where he claims 9 that the records were lost. 10 But he never said that in the initial 11 conversations he was having with the FAA in the 12 summer of 2014 which was the run up to our 13 filing, you know, initiating our case. That 14 issue was never raised. 15 Beyond that Your Honor asked for case 16 law. I did cite the case Weinstein case in my 17 original motion for summary judgment and then in 18 my supplemental submission I added, sorry, the 19 Schumacher case I think which was actually a 20 fairly recent case. 21 So I, unless Your Honor has specific 22 questions I would just simply say the record

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1 speaks for itself. To summarize, the facts are 2 very basic. 3 The FAA, you know Inspector Marty 4 Conroy had numerous communications with Mr. 5 Curtright saying we need these records. There 6 was a letter which was referenced in the LOI that 7 was issued on July 1st and then the LOI itself 8 repeated we need specific records and you have, 9 you know, Mr. Curtright saying the records are 10 somewhere in Canada. 11 I have no plans to go get them. Those 12 are the facts of the case. Only after we filed a 13 notice of proposed civil penalty, after we then 14 filed the final notice of proposed civil penalty 15 which he then appealed and then we filed our 16 complaint. 17 And then when he failed to file his 18 answer in a timely fashion I moved for dismissal 19 of the complaint. This was when the case was 20 still assigned to Your Honor's predecessor. 21 Only then did he contact me first and 22 say I 've got the records

. And then I said,

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1 great. Passed it on to Marty Conroy. Told him 2 you need to call Marty Conroy. 3 You need to set an appointment to 4 review the records. Only then did he come into 5 compliance and that was on August 15, 2015, 6 almost a year after the adopted Exhibit 6 that 7 I've exhibited. 8 That was not reasonable compliance. 9 Accordingly, I respectfully submit the violation 10 is proven committed as alleged and there are no 11 material facts that are in genuine dispute on 12 this matter. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. 14 Shayne. Mr. Curtright, let's turn to you. 15 You've heard Mr. Shayne's brief argument. What 16 would you like to say in response? 17 And this is the FAA's cross-motion. 18 So you're welcome to talk about any of the 19 exhibits that you have identified in your 20 response and objection to the cross-motion as 21 well as the supplemental materials that you filed 22 on January 13, 2017.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com73 1 DR. CURTRIGHT: The whole response 2 adds, Your Honor, that I've presented in 3 reference to the Respondent's submission of 4 additional authority in the motion to dismiss. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I certainly will 6 consider it in its totality for both your 7 function and your response to the FAA's cross8 motion as I stated earlier. 9 DR. CURTRIGHT: So my, Mr. Shayne 1s 10 response to me is sort of like somebody who wrote 11 a play. It's not the way I saw it at all. 12 Anyway, Mr. Marty Conroy I wasn't having an 13 extended conversation with Marty Conroy in any 14 way. 15 It was, we were in communications 16 almost on a silent mode in reference to emailing, 17 trying to email but very cautious and being 18 polite in what I emailed to the FAA because they 19 can, I want to be sure I say the right things 20 with them. 21 But my communication was when I would 22 get a letter from the initial inspector after a

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1 period of time and then there would be another 2 delay. I would respond. And there would be 3 another delay and then there would be another 4 response, you know. 5 And it was like sort of this, that's 6 why things took so long. So when I finally got 7 frustrated with the whole thing that's when Marty 8 Conroy, I get a call from them they would like to 9 come down and visit. 10 And that was wonderful, okay. Thank 11 you. Anyway, but so I, Marty Conroy came down 12 and visited and that's when we resolved all of 13 the problems. 14 So, you know, I responded as fast and 15 best I could considering the circumstances. I'm 16 trying to think what else I want to say. Excuse 17 me for a second. I'll read my notes. 18 Anyway, I think there has been 19 mistakes made and I've tried to clarify it in my 20 submissions the best I could. And I think 21 there's been many mistakes on the FAA as well, 22 side. So I guess we'll leave it at that for now.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you say mistakes 2 are you talking about a certain mistake that you 3 want the Court to consider or just the full 4 panoply of what you consider to be a less than 5 perfect experience? 6 DR. CURTRIGHT: Well it's been a less 7 than perfect experience that's for sure. Anyway, 8 among many one points 407, for instance, exhibits 9 had nothing to do with their case in reference to 10 the case law that was presented. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I noticed that you 12 pointed that out to the Court and I appreciate 13 the correction of that. I would note however, 14 Mr. Curtright, that I am not an employee of the 15 FAA. So that mistake is fully mine and no one 16 else's. 17 DR. CURTRIGHT: No, I'm just trying to 18 point out there's been a whole lot of mistakes 19 made by the FAA and I'm trying to respond the 20 best I can in this last, let's just say 21 administration. 22

(202) 234-4433 And the, say we're going to a

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76 1 restaurant the service hasn't been that great 2 except when Mr. Conroy and his associate came 3 down and then things got fixed. But it was a 4 horrible mess until then and not a pleasant 5 experience when, pardon, bringing it up again. 6 I'm on my own airport providing my own 7 tub. A piece of equipment fails on the plane. 8 I 'm already on the ground and I was trying to 9 follow the rules. I call the FAA in the middle 10 of nowhere 12 miles out of a major city on my own 11 property and report my sin. 12 And for my sin I get two years of 13 stuff. So next time what it teaches you to do 14 maybe I should hide my sin or should I get better 15 service from the FAA and a little sympathy that I 16 just lost an airplane and thankful that I didn't 17 get hurt and that I was already on the ground and 18 it slid off the runway because of the braking on 19 the left side. 20 So this is an incident and not an 21 accident. And anyway, that's my vision of this. 22 So pardon my frustration.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So essentially you 2 self-reported an incident that occurred on your 3 property and from that self-report this blossomed 4 into a case that you are now appearing before me? 5 DR. CURTRIGHT: That's correct. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me ask you 7 just for a moment to look at Exhibit 6 which the 8 FAA has proffered. And this is the record of 9 telephone call offered by Inspector Conroy. Do 10 you have that in front of you? 11 DR. CURTRIGHT: Let me look for it, 12 Your Honor. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Hello. 14 DR. CURTRIGHT: Yes, I'm here. I'm just 15 trying to look through some paperwork, ma'am. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 17 DR. CURTRIGHT: Give me a few minutes. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll note that I can 19 hear your secretary talking Mr. Curtright and she 20 should not be talking at least loud enough for 21 the Court or the court reporter to hear. 22

(202) 234-4433 DR. CURTRIGHT: Give me two minutes to

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISlANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 wvvw.nealrgross.com78 1 look for the papers, Your Honor. I can't find it 2 at the moment. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I can tell you 4 that this is the record of a phone call that Mr. 5 Shayne talked about in his presentation of his 6 cross-motion where Inspector Conroy said that he 7 talked with you by telephone on September 24, 8 2014, asked you for the log books and asked if 9 you could provide him a future date when you 10 would be able to recover them. Does that ring a 11 bell at all? 12 DR. CURTRIGHT: No, it's been a while, 13 Your Honor. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well since you don't 15 have that material in front of you then I won't 16 dwell on that exhibit any longer. Mr. Curtright, 17 anything else that you would like to add to your 18 19 DR. CURTRIGHT: I have that, Your 20 Honor. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You do. You found 22 that, okay. Let's go to that for just a moment.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com79 1 According to the FAA this letter should be looked 2 at and utilized by the Court as a statement that 3 you were not cooperative and that you were not 4 responding to the request for investigation. 5 Do you have anything you would like to 6 say about that particular portion of the FAA's 7 argument? 8 DR. CURTRIGHT: No, I was responding. 9 I think this was insinuating that I wasn't 10 responding and I was. Basically I told the FAA I 11 never, kind of pretty much ignoring what I had 12 tried to present. 13 And so anyway, we would, I would get 14 this kind of stuff or I did get this letter in 15 reference to that and so we presented them with 16 what we had and it's sort of like they're 17 ignoring the fact that we've presented almost 18 anything. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So your, part 20 of your argument is that you did give them 21 certain things and they should have been more 22 appreciative of it?

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1 DR. CURTRIGHT: Well that's my view of 2 the case. But I also explained that we had lost 3 the documents. We were looking for documents and 4 I needed time and that was the request. 5 And so that, and this came back as 6 well, you know, we haven't got anything and 7 therefore, you know, so that's my point is that 8 there wasn't anything I could do about finding 9 everything perfectly and putting things together 10 perfectly so I could present it. 11 And so if you're going to present 12 something to the FAA you want it to be perfect, 13 don't you. And I think that's the way I like it 14 that so I wanted to gather everything together 15 and present it to them all at once because where 16 is your weight and balance and where's your logs? 17 And I say well it's lost. We're going 18 to need time to get to go up to Canada, get what 19 I needed and put it all together and present it 20 to you which in the end is what we got done. 21 Anyway, things took time and that's just the way 22 it was.

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1 So and I think we presented them with 2 everything. We didn't try to keep anything away 3 from them. We presented some of the logs we 4 already had and documents we had and the weight 5 and balance. 6 And anyway, that was what they wanted 7 at first. They just wanted weight and balance. 8 And then there was, and then it just kind of 9 escalated from there. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 11 Anything else that you would like to add to your 12 response to the FAA's cross-motion at this time? 13 DR. CURTRIGHT: Everything we 14 presented to them we did, we tried to do, give 15 them everything they wanted and there was no mal16 intent on my part at all. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you very 18 much. Mr. Shayne, you are the movant in this 19 cross-motion. Do you have anything you would 20 like to add to the reply that you filed? 21 MR. SHAYNE: Just very briefly 22 response to Mr. Curtright's remarks where now he

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1 again says well I told him it was lost. That's 2 not anywhere in the record that we provided. 3 And there is a process that the FAA 4 goes through. I mean this is not the first time 5 or this is not that unheard of that the FAA has 6 gone to an aircraft owner and said we want to see 7 the records. 8 The records were destroyed in a fire. 9 The records have been lost. I sold them with the 10 aircraft, whatever it is. The FAA has a process 11 to allow owners to recreate records. It is not 12 generally the policy of the FAA to punish 13 aircraft owners for, you know, losing records, 14 having them destroyed or lost. 15 And had that information been given to 16 Mr. Conroy to begin with I think you would have 17 seen a different record before you. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right, thank you 19 very much, Mr. Shayne and Mr. Curtright. I 20 appreciate both of you staying past 3:00p.m. 21 which had been our original close hour as do I 22 thank the court reporter for his extended

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com83 1 presence today as well. 2 It appears that all arguments are in. 3 The Court will be issuing rulings on both 4 motions. You'll see separate orders coming out. 5 So there will be an order on the Respondent's 6 motion and then an order on the FAA's cross7 motion. 8 I will try and get those out as soon 9 as I can and as part of those orders I will be 10 addressing a future conference scheduling time on 11 the matter that was not addressed today, the 12 proposed civil penalty if in fact that matter 13 remains on the table once the Court orders on 14 this decision on these particular motions are 15 addressed. 16 So thank you again everyone for your 17 materials. Thank you for your presence. It 18 appears our business is complete. We can go off 19 the record and I wish you all a good day. Thank 20 you. 21 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 22 went off the record at 3:21p.m.)

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Neal R. Grossand Co., Inc. Washington DC 92

www.nealrgross.com93 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: William Cutright

Before: US DOT/OH

Date: 02-08-17

Place: teleconference

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202)2344433 Court Reporter

NEALR. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODEISLANDAVE.,N.W. WASHINGTON,D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com