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i 

22–455 2017

[H.A.S.C. No. 114–137] 

VIEWS ON H.R. 4298, VIETNAM 

HELICOPTER CREW MEMORIAL ACT; 

AND H.R. 5458, VETERANS TRICARE 

CHOICE ACT 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

HEARING HELD 

SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 
(II) 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL 

JOSEPH J. HECK, Nevada, Chairman 

WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina 

JOHN KLINE, Minnesota 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

THOMAS MACARTHUR, New Jersey, Vice 

Chair 

ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York 

PAUL COOK, California 

STEPHEN KNIGHT, California 

SUSAN A. DAVIS, California 

ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania 

NIKI TSONGAS, Massachusetts 

JACKIE SPEIER, California 

TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota 

BETO O’ROURKE, Texas 

JEANETTE JAMES, Professional Staff Member 

CRAIG GREENE, Professional Staff Member 

COLIN BOSSE, Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS 

Davis, Hon. Susan A., a Representative from California, Ranking Member, 

Subcommittee on Military Personnel ................................................................. 1 

Heck, Hon. Joseph J., a Representative from Nevada, Chairman, Subcommittee on Military Personnel .................................................................................... 1 

WITNESSES 

Amodei, Hon. Mark E., a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Nevada .................................................................................................................. 2 

Hallinan, Patrick K., Executive Director, Arlington National Cemetery ............ 4 

Hesselbein, Bob, Chairman, Legacy Committee, Vietnam Helicopter Pilots 

Association ............................................................................................................ 5 

Secord, Bill, Legislative Affairs Chairman, Air Line Pilots Association ............. 11 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Amodei, Hon. Mark E. ..................................................................................... 21 

Hallinan, Patrick K. ......................................................................................... 24 

Heck, Hon. Joseph J. ........................................................................................ 19 

Hesselbein, Bob ................................................................................................. 30 

Secord, Bill ........................................................................................................ 35 

DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

Statement of The National Association for Uniformed Services .................. 45 

WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING THE HEARING: 

Dr. Heck ............................................................................................................ 51 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING: 

[There were no Questions submitted post hearing.] 

(1) 

VIEWS ON H.R. 4298, VIETNAM HELICOPTER CREW MEMORIAL ACT; AND H.R. 5458, VETERANS TRICARE 

CHOICE ACT 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL, Washington, DC, Thursday, September 8, 2016. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 3:33 p.m., in room 

2118, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Joseph J. Heck (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH J. HECK, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEVADA, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

MILITARY PERSONNEL 

Dr. HECK. Good afternoon. Today’s subcommittee meets to hear 

testimony on two important but very diverse subjects, the eligibility of TRICARE beneficiaries to enroll in health savings accounts, or HSAs, and the placement of a memorial within Arlington 

National Cemetery [ANC] to honor helicopter pilots and crew members who died while flying in combat in Vietnam. 

I want to thank Representative Mark Amodei from my home 

State of Nevada and Representative Chris Stewart from Utah for 

introducing H.R. 4298, the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act, 

and H.R. 5458, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act, respectively. 

I appreciate your support for our service members and retirees 

and for your willingness to honor those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. I welcome both of you here today. 

We will have two panels. The first to discuss the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act, and the second to discuss the Veterans 

TRICARE Choice Act. I am interested in hearing from our witnesses today, their views on each of these bills as they have been 

introduced in the House of Representatives. 

With that, I want to welcome our witnesses. I look forward to 

their testimony. 

And before I introduce our panel, I would like to offer ranking 

member, Mrs. Davis, from San Diego, an opportunity to make any 

opening remarks. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Heck can be found in the Appendix on page 19.] 

STATEMENT OF HON. SUSAN A. DAVIS, A REPRESENTATIVE 

FROM CALIFORNIA, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

MILITARY PERSONNEL 

Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And just very 

briefly, I certainly want to welcome our witnesses as well. The two 
2 

issues that we have before us today are not as easy to address as 

one might believe, weighing the decision to create a commemorative monument against when, at the same time, we are ensuring 

states of future burials in Arlington National Cemetery is not an 

issue to be taken lightly. 

We are also discussing another important topic today, to allow 

those eligible for TRICARE to also be eligible for health savings accounts. Both policy decisions could have positive and negative impacts, as just about everything we do does. It is never simple, 

right? I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on both of these 

issues and working together to find solutions. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. HECK. Thank you, Mrs. Davis. 

At this time, without objection, I ask unanimous consent that an 

additional statement from the National Association of Uniformed 

Services be included in the record of this hearing. 

Without objection, so ordered. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 45.] 

Dr. HECK. We will try to go as quickly but as effectively as we 

can before they call votes. As you have all been informed, we are 

probably going to have a vote series that will interrupt this hearing. 

So I will welcome our first panel. The Honorable Mark E. Amodei 

of the second district of Nevada; Mr. Patrick Hallinan, executive director for Arlington National Cemetery; and Mr. Bob Hesselbein, 

chairman, Legacy Committee, Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association. 

With that, Mr. Amodei, you have 5 minutes. 

Hit your button. 

STATEMENT OF HON. MARK E. AMODEI, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEVADA 

Mr. AMODEI. Hi. On this mike in front of you. For your record, 

Mark Amodei from the second district of Nevada. 

I understand the primary mission of ANC. The staff has been 

outstanding to work with. I have learned a lot in two visits to ANC 

to find out what is going on with ANC in terms of its history, 

present operations, expansion plans, and what they plan to do in 

the future. 

I understand that the primary mission of ANC is to conduct burials. But when you look at what the legislation says that was 

passed by this House, it says that is the primary mission, and you 

are going to hear about that, and there is no dispute about that 

here today. But there is nothing in the legislation that says you 

can’t have memorials at ANC. 

And, quite frankly, when you look at the history, in the last 27 

years, there have been four memorials constructed at ANC. So 

many times you hear the argument, well, oh my God, if we let this 

one in, they are all coming in. The bar is pretty high, and it should 

be very high. But I got to tell you, ANC is a phenomenal and 

unique national treasure. This application is a phenomenal and 

unique memorial request. This is not somebody with somebody’s favorite unit or whatever and, hey, we want to do this or that. This 
3 

is almost 10 percent of the casualties in the helicopter war. Let me 

repeat that. Almost 10 percent of the casualties in the helicopter 

war. And that is not just pilots and crew members. That is medics 

and, by the way, it is all branches of service: Air Force, Marine 

Corps, Army, Navy, medics, crew members, crew chiefs. 

And so when you look at this and you say, is there no application 

that is worthy? Indeed, it is interesting to note that the advisory 

committee tied on this issue. It was 3–3. One member was absent. 

So they sent it up to the executive director and to the Secretary 

of the Army, and they made their call. And with due respect, it is 

like I understand that. But my concern, and the reason for introducing the legislation, which I didn’t do lightly, is my fear is that 

we have a de facto standard if these folks can’t make it, helicopter 

casualties in the helicopter war, 10 percent. And I won’t steal the 

colonel’s thunder here. If this isn’t worthy—and, by the way, Mr. 

Chairman, with your permission, I have a visual aid. As you can 

see, this is a very expensive visual aid. 

Members of the committee, this is 5 square feet. And you said, 

gee, that is a nice visual aid there, Mr. Amodei. That is what they 

have asked for, 5 square feet. That is a thousand casualties per 

square foot, if you want to look at it that way. Four of these in 25 

years. That could be the fifth one, and who knows when the next 

one is. That is not the sort of thing that is going to crowd out burials at ANC. 

And I would remind you, when you look at that legislation again, 

primary mission, no doubt about it, 10 percent of the casualties, 5 

square feet. There are areas that are unsuitable for graves. So 

what these folks are asking for—and listen, this is one of the few 

times I can say it anymore, I am too young to have said, you know, 

I served in Vietnam, thankfully. It is one of the few things I am 

too young for. But you grew up with that war on TV. It was the 

first TV war, too, probably. 

And so you look at that, and as you think about people in your 

communities, as you think about medics, as you think about Air 

Force people, as you think about Army people, Navy people, Marine 

Corps folks, how many people’s names aren’t on that wall down the 

street because these folks were around doing their job? 

So I would submit to you, ANC is a national treasure. This is a 

unique request that the advisory committee tied on. And so here 

we are saying, hey, you know what, let’s really make sure we take 

a good look at this, because this is a pretty worthy cause. The request is for that much. We ought to be able to find 5 square feet 

for something special for nearly 5,000 casualties in the helicopter 

war for people who died on those. 

And so with that, I would just say, a working standard that 

doesn’t allow a worthy application to make that grade is a working 

standard, quite frankly, that needs a little bit of help. Because the 

answer shouldn’t start with no. It should be, you have got a very 

high standard to meet, and if you meet it, though, we will give you 

that much square feet. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I yield back. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Amodei can be found in the Appendix on page 21.] 

Dr. HECK. Thank you, Congressman Amodei. 
4 

Next, we will hear from Mr. Hallinan. 

STATEMENT OF PATRICK K. HALLINAN, EXECUTIVE 

DIRECTOR, ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY 

Mr. HALLINAN. Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department of the Army’s views on the Vietnam Helicopter Memorial Act. 

Arlington National Cemetery is our Nation’s unique and iconic 

resting place devoted to those individuals who made a significant 

sacrifice and commitment to the defense of our country in the 

armed services. Arlington National Cemetery is recognized as a national treasure and is an active military cemetery, interring over 

7,000 individuals annually. Since 1864, these hallowed grounds 

have been the final resting place for more than 400,000 Active 

Duty service members, veterans, and their family. It is our duty 

and the United States Army’s commitment to ensure Arlington National Cemetery remains an active cemetery as long as space accommodations allow us to honor those who have served our Nation 

in the military. On behalf of the cemetery and the Department of 

the Army, I express our appreciation for the support that Congress 

has provided over the years. 

Current law directs Arlington National Cemetery to preserve 

space not conducive to ground burial of human remains for the memorialization of individual service members whose remains are 

missing, never recovered, scattered, or buried at sea. 

Over the past 25 years, as the Congressman pointed out, only 

four monuments have been approved and installed in Arlington National Cemetery. The two most recent being in 2002 and 2011, the 

Battle of the Bulge and the Jewish Chaplains Memorial, respectively, each of which were authorized through congressional legislation. 

The proposed Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act legislation, 

as drafted, would direct the Secretary of the Army to place in Arlington National Cemetery a monument honoring the helicopter pilots and crew members of the Vietnam era, and for other purposes. 

This legislation does not address the broader concerns of preserving the life of the cemetery well into the future. By virtue of 

longstanding Army policy and rulemaking, commemorative monuments may only be placed in Arlington Cemetery after a collaborative and deliberative process. Monuments reduce land that would 

otherwise be used for burial memorialization of our killed in action 

[KIA], deceased on Active Duty service members, veterans, and 

their eligible family members. 

The initial request from the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association was processed in accordance with the 2012 National Defense 

Authorization Act and public law. The appropriate congressional 

oversight committees were notified of the Secretary of the Army’s 

decision to disprove the request for a commemorative monument. 

In its stead, he did approve the placement of a plaque at the base 

of a living tree. While other veteran’s organizations have had their 

request for tree plaques disapproved in order to preserve space at 

the cemetery, the Secretary chose to allow a tree plaque honoring 

those members of the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association. 
5 

Given the present rate of burials and the dwindling inventory of 

available gravesites and niches, Arlington National Cemetery will 

close for first interments or inurnments in the 2030s. The reality 

is space is finite. Each year, ground burial is denied to veterans 

whose service does not rise to the level to justify displacement of 

eligible veterans. Additionally, under current eligibility, any future 

casualties of our Nation—excuse me. Each ground burial is denied 

current veterans justify displacement of an eligible—additionally, 

any current eligible future casualty our Nation sustains after 2030s 

may find space not available at Arlington National Cemetery for 

those who pay the ultimate sacrifice, our killed-in-action service 

members. 

Arlington National Cemetery is devoted to ensuring the most important memorials are placed in our hallowed grounds. Those are 

the individual government headstones marking the resting places 

of the veterans who have served and sacrificed their life in service 

to our Nation. We are responsible for ensuring commemoration in 

perpetuity, as established by law. Maintaining individual memorialization of those who have earned a place at Arlington is the most 

important responsibility we as a Nation hold at Arlington National 

Cemetery. This was the key consideration for the cemetery staff 

and the advisory committee of Arlington National Cemetery when 

they reviewed and made their recommendation to the Secretary of 

the Army. His thoughtful and detailed review found the same and 

resulted in his decision. 

The Army understands the general intent of the legislation to 

honor these veterans and their service. However, as stewards of 

our most hallowed military burial grounds, Arlington National 

Cemetery must diligently preserve the land, which is ultimately 

designated for the sole purpose of providing the final resting place 

for our heroes who were killed in action, Active Duty service members, veterans, and their eligible family members. Any structure, 

commemorative or utilitarian in nature, that diverts from the expressed mission should be placed in other locations suitable for 

their representation. 

Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis, this concludes my testimony. I will gladly respond to any questions you or the subcommittee may have. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hallinan can be found in the Appendix on page 24.] 

Dr. HECK. Thank you, Mr. Hallinan. 

And I think we will probably have time to get through Mr. 

Hesselbein’s opening statement and then we will come back for 

questions. 

So Mr. Hesselbein, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF BOB HESSELBEIN, CHAIRMAN, LEGACY 

COMMITTEE, VIETNAM HELICOPTER PILOTS ASSOCIATION 

Mr. HESSELBEIN. Thank you, Chairman Heck, Ranking Member 

Davis, and other distinguished members of the committee. It is a 

privilege to be here today to speak not only on behalf of the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association but also the Vietnam Helicopter 

Crew Members Association to speak in favor of H.R. 4298, the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Member Memorial. 
6 

We currently are over 10,000 members strong in our two organizations, and we achieve membership by a difficult manner. We are 

from all branches of service. The commonality, we served the 

Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard. We earned our 

membership as combat helicopter pilots and crew members in the 

Vietnam War, the war as you have heard already described as the 

helicopter war. I can also say I speak informally for the many Gold 

Star families who still mourn the loss of their husband, their son, 

or brother killed while operating a rotary-wing aircraft in Southeast Asia from 1961 to 1975. 

We know why we want to honor those in Arlington National 

Cemetery. We want to make sure that we clarify that this memorial is to honor those who died, the almost 5,000. Some 41 years 

after the end of the Vietnam War, we are still without a single memorial in the Nation that honors the all-service commitment and 

dedication, the last full measure that approximately 5,000 rotarywing pilots, crew chiefs, medics, and door gunners gave during the 

conflict. And many, might I add, who are buried right now in Arlington National Cemetery. 

I would like to remind you that during the Vietnam War, the helicopter became the mainstay for joint operational mobility. 12,000 

helicopters, 12,000 helicopters were used by all military services, 

Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force, and of those, over 5,000— 

5,086, were destroyed by enemy fire or mishaps related to the missions they did. The losses because of this incredible mission that 

they flew were also great: 2,002 pilots killed, 2,704 nonpilot crew 

members died, and at least 532 United States military passengers 

perished; 9 percent. We don’t have a good number on how many 

Vietnamese that were carried on our helicopters died while being 

passengers being medevac’d or being resupplied. We have no numbers on that. But we can say roughly 9 percent of the 58,307 Vietnamese war casualties died in the helicopters. 

The helicopters and the brave crews who operated these machines stand as the iconic symbol of the Vietnam War. Virtually all 

writings, documentaries, and films of the war include remembrances of combat helicopters because they were ubiquitous to the 

experience of that war. 

Despite the Vietnam War being described as the helicopter war, 

and the UH–1 Iroquois Huey being recognized as the symbol of the 

war, as I must say again, no specific memorial exists anywhere 

strictly honoring their sacrifice. 

Individual branches do have memorials, such as the United 

States Army Aviation Museum at Fort Rucker that named 4,347 

aviation casualties, but no one memorial remembers them all. No 

military cemetery to this day possesses a memorial specifically 

dedicated to those who died in helicopter losses in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. No other cemetery, however, provides a superior location to Arlington National Cemetery. And frankly, it is a logical 

place to honor those who flew and died in the war. 

ANC holds the remains of many individual pilots and crew members who were immediately interred during the war. Incidentally, 

some 20 percent of all casualties who came to be buried during the 

war that were buried at Arlington National Cemetery, 20 percent 

of those are helicopter pilots and crew members. One-fifth of all 
7 

those who died in the war that were buried at Arlington were helicopter pilots and crew members. And incidentally, it is the only 

military cemetery that holds the recovered remains of missing-inaction [MIA] crews and others. Section 60 has whole crew members. They call them commingled remains, but they are all at Arlington National Cemetery. And also incidentally, those of you sitting in this room, many of us will also be buried in Arlington National Cemetery, helicopter pilots, members, and such. 

I would like to say one thing about the cemetery. You know, it 

holds symbolic value held nowhere else. If New York City is the 

heart of the Nation’s finances, if Washington, D.C., is the heart of 

the political place, then Arlington National Cemetery is the heart 

of our military conscience. It is where we go to remember the cost 

of the war. It is where we go to see our fallen warriors. And for 

us veterans of war, it is the place we go to visit our young friends 

who died in combat. 

If you look at this memorial, it is designed to blend in with the 

aesthetic of Arlington National Cemetery and to reflect what the 

commingled remains look like in their mixed graves, combined remains, all having one stone, much like that. If you look at it, it is 

a Huey approaching, it is approaching a safe place. The machine 

guns are stowed, because they are coming to a place of safety. 

Below, we have five shields for the branches of service, because 

every branch of service, to include the Coast Guard, has aviators 

and crew members buried in Arlington National Cemetery who 

died during the war. And in the center, the simple words, some 

taken from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address, express our feelings for 

their loss. 

And I would like to say, it is all going to be done at private expense. We will pay to have it built. We will pay to have it installed, 

and we have set aside the funds, and we have the funds to have 

a lifelong trust set up for this thing. 

Now, there are voices who say Arlington can’t accept additional 

memorials and all unused ground must be reserved for future 

graves, but there are places in Arlington National Cemetery that 

will never have graves. There are utility lines. There are tree roots 

that can’t take 6 feet or 8 feet of digging, but they can certainly 

take a memorial such as this that only goes about a foot and a half 

into the ground. It is suitable. 

Some fear also, fear as we have said before, that it will result 

in a flood of legislation. Well, that is simply not held true, as we 

discussed. Two legislations, and of those two, only one was a combat recognition for men who died during the Battle of the Bulge 

and women who died in the Battle of the Bulge. That was 14 years 

ago. And also the reason there won’t be another flood—and I will 

only take 1 minute of your time, with your permission, sir—is that 

the average age of the veterans of Vietnam is now 72. I am the 

youngest. I was a 19-year-old gunship pilot in 1972, and I am 64 

years old today. You won’t have many veterans groups coming to 

you seeking more memorials, because simply, we are dying. We will 

be dead soon. 

We are not asking for something new. As Executive Director 

Hallinan spoke, we have been authorized about a foot and a half. 

A foot and a half for a small tree marker. Well, we looked at the 
8 

tree markers, 142, and we found most of those are not significant 

to the casualties or a 13-year war. They are for smaller events and 

smaller groups, all worthy but not to the magnitude of this loss 

and this amount of time. 

We have a foot and a half of space now. We would like five. And 

we ask you, representing the people of the United States, to help 

us with this. We ask you to abide to this and pass bill H.R. 4298. 

Thank you for listening to my witness testimony. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hesselbein can be found in the 

Appendix on page 30.] 

Dr. HECK. I would like to thank all our witnesses. We will stand 

in recess until we reconvene after the votes. 

[Recess.] 

Dr. HECK. Okay. We will reconvene the hearing and take up 

questions. 

I will begin and put me on the clock for 5 minutes. 

Mr. Hallinan, in your testimony, you know, you raised the issue, 

rightfully so, of the diminishing space for interments. Just for my 

edification, how many square—how many acres does Arlington occupy? 

Mr. HALLINAN. Mr. Chairman, Arlington presently occupies 624 

acres. 

Dr. HECK. Okay. And of those 624, do you know how many acres 

are not suitable for interments? 

Mr. HALLINAN. I would have to take it as a do up to get an estimate for you, sir, an accurate estimate. But just about every space 

in Arlington that we look at, if it is not suitable for burial space, 

it is very important to keep in mind that it is suitable for an MA 

[memorial area] marker, a memorial marker, so those airmen and 

those marines and those other combat people missing that have 

never been recovered, we can put a memorial marker in those 

spaces for their families. So it serves a purpose, and we look at 

that very critically, sir. 

Dr. HECK. And how big are those markers? 

Mr. HALLINAN. Well, the markers themselves, they are just 

standing upright headstone markers, but they can fit in a 4- or 5- 

foot space. 

Dr. HECK. Okay. So not as much—so the same headstone, just 

not on the amount of space required for an interment? 

Mr. HALLINAN. Correct, sir. 

Dr. HECK. Okay. So I would appreciate it if you would get back 

with how much space is not suitable for burial. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 51.] 

Dr. HECK. And so for all the space, then, that is not suitable, you 

hold that in reserve for one of these other markers. Is that correct, 

that is the current operating procedure? 

Mr. HALLINAN. Correct. We look at it as future potential for MA 

markers, memorial markers. 

Dr. HECK. Okay. Do you know how many of those markers have 

been placed? 

Mr. HALLINAN. I will take it as a do up, sir. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 51.] 
9 

Dr. HECK. Okay. And how many monuments that honor groups 

of individuals who serve in a particular war conflict are located in 

Arlington? 

Mr. HALLINAN. I would have take that as a do up, Mr. Chairman, 

to answer your question specifically how many are actually for a 

unit or for a battle, because there are so many different types of 

monuments at Arlington. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 51.] 

Dr. HECK. Okay. All right. 

And, Mr. Hesselbein, is there a particular location that you have 

requested the memorial be placed inside of ANC, or are you just 

asking for a location at the selection of the Secretary of the Army 

and Arlington officials? 

Mr. HESSELBEIN. We appreciate the opportunity to have our memorial placed in Arlington National Cemetery. We were asked to 

offer some ideas of where we thought it would be appropriate, and 

there are certain areas near section 60 that are suitable, section 

66. And also, the new parts of Arlington National Cemetery that 

will be expanding soon, where Henderson Hall space has been 

given up. There will be no memorials there whatsoever. And that 

would be certainly an attractive area to sort of I don’t want to say 

add to it, but place memorials more than just the graves. 

Dr. HECK. And other than those locations, if ANC came back and 

said, hey, we understand you like 60, 66, or maybe where the expansion is, but we have this? 

Mr. HESSELBEIN. I think our—our primary goal is to get a memorial within Arlington National Cemetery, and we know the staff 

would be very conscientious in trying to place it in an appropriate 

place. And, frankly, we would not come to this meeting and tell 

them, demand where they want it to be, because we know they 

would be sensitive and put it in an appropriate location. 

Dr. HECK. Okay. Thank you. I have no further questions. 

Mrs. Davis. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, all, for 

your thoughtfulness around this. 

Mr. Hallinan, you know, as we look at this issue, I wonder—it 

seems, you know, maybe pretty logical and reasonable to do that, 

and yet I know that in the position that you are in, you have to 

be thinking far enough ahead. And one of the suggestions I—you 

know, and I appreciate Mr. Hesselbein saying that, well, we are 

kind of giving the issue of where this might be if, in fact, there 

were this kind of memorial and perhaps others that are raised to 

the standard that this would be as well. 

Can you think of areas where, in fact, something like that might 

be appropriate and perhaps it would be more than one kind of memorial along those lines, different from the memorials that have already been discussed in tree plaques and other things like that? 

Mr. HALLINAN. The space, as I mentioned in my written statement, is finite. And we are all looking towards the future and keeping space available. As we look towards the future expansion, and 

as my colleague here speaks about Henderson Hall, we are really 

expanding at a millennium project, which is away from Henderson 

Hall. 
10 

When you look, any space that we would designate for that purpose could still be used in the future for a burial or for a memorial 

marker for someone that is missing. So that is really the issue. And 

I understand that, hey, it is only 5 feet, but 5 feet is a grave site. 

Five feet is an eligible veteran not being interred when the family 

has need. And I also understand the importance of monuments. 

And, Mr. Chairman, we have 451 group markers, my staff has 

let me know, in answer to your question. But the most important 

monument at that cemetery are the individual headstones that talk 

about that person and their service to the Nation. Whether it is the 

branch of service they are in, the war conflict they were in, that 

is the most important monument. 

So we understand the request for monuments. We have other requests pending. We have five pending requests for additional 

monuments at Arlington now, and to try to balance the desires and 

needs of the various organizations, with our primary mission, that 

is the really difficult question you pointed out. That is a difficult 

issue. Our primary mission is to make sure that we can honor 

those who have passed and those we have not recovered. And so 

we—— 

Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. 

Mr. HALLINAN [continuing]. We are protective of the space. 

Mrs. DAVIS. I appreciate that. 

Mr. Hesselbein, I actually spoke to Mr. Amodei just very briefly, 

just thinking about other possibilities or considerations. I understand Arlington National Cemetery obviously is sacred to all of us. 

So I have had such moving experiences at the Vietnam Memorial, 

and I wonder whether that was something that you all had thought 

about or considered? 

Mr. HESSELBEIN. That is a wonderful question. We looked at the 

Vietnam Veterans Memorial location. There are two additional memorials in there. Then Congress passed a bill literally saying that 

it would have to come to them. There is incredible inertia against 

placing any new memorials upon the National Mall. In particular, 

there is great resistance, in addition to that, to placing any other 

additional memorials around the Vietnam Veterans Memorial 

itself. 

So we felt that also Arlington, with a great number of casualties, 

the great number of helicopter pilots who died and crew members 

who died that are buried there, that is the place to have this. If 

you haven’t been to section 60, go there and look at all the large 

gray marble slabs of MIA crews being brought home, several crews 

last year, and they keep coming to Arlington, and that is the place 

that we would like to see our friends, our brothers, remembered. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Yeah. All right. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. HECK. Mr. Coffman. 

Mr. COFFMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Congressman Amodei, for bringing this issue forward. 

I was in the Army but too late for Vietnam. I did come in in 

1972, but when I came out of the pipeline, they weren’t sending 

any ground troops to Vietnam anymore. And I later transferred to 

the Marine Corps and then left Active Duty. And an assignment 
11 

I had as reservist at one time was to go through the files of those 

missing in action in Vietnam from Colorado and contact the families and give them an update. Well, there really wasn’t much of an 

update. It was just—but the Marine Corps felt that they wanted 

to have—maintain strong communications with the family. So even 

though there wasn’t new information, that there was a requirement 

to contact the families of those missing in action. 

In going through the files from—and I can’t remember what the 

total number was, probably—I know there was more than 20. And 

I would say they were all aviation accidents—or aviation incidents, 

save one that was the Mayaguez incident where there were some— 

there were marines that were not accounted for in the evacuation 

of the U.S. citizens on the Mayaguez post-Vietnam in the aftermath of our involvement in the Vietnam War. 

But I—you know, it would be, like, helicopter went down South 

China Sea, bodies not recovered. And so I think that to me, this 

monument represents those who are—you know, in very high 

casualties, I think you said, 10 percent of the casualties in Vietnam. And as a first Gulf War in Iraq war veteran, when I compare 

the casualties of Vietnam to the casualties that we faced, I mean, 

quite frankly, they were losing during the height of the—1967, 

1968, 1969. They averaged a thousand killed in action a month in 

the war in Vietnam, which is extraordinary. 

So I just feel that this—and the fact is that air mobility was central to the war and to prosecuting the war in Vietnam. And so I 

think that it is fitting that we have a memorial specific to that in 

Arlington. 

So I would ask to be put down as a cosponsor on your bill. I suppose that is not normal to do that during the hearing, but I thank 

you so much for bringing this forward. 

I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. HECK. Okay. Well, I thank all the witnesses for your testimony today. We will take the matter under advisement and see if 

there is a path forward. 

So we will end the first panel, and then we will change out and 

bring the second panel up to discuss Mr. Stewart’s bill, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act. 

[Recess.] 

Dr. HECK. All right. We will go ahead and move into our second 

panel. 

This one on Mr. Stewart’s bill, the Veterans TRICARE Choice 

Act, which tries to open up TRICARE members to be able to participate in health savings accounts. We have but one witness, Mr. 

Bill Secord, a legislative affairs chairman for the Airline Pilots Association. 

Mr. Secord, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF BILL SECORD, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS 

CHAIRMAN, AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION 

Mr. SECORD. Thank you, sir. I would like to thank you and Ranking Member Davis and the distinguished members of this subcommittee for inviting me today. I would also like to thank the Military 

Personnel Subcommittee staff, and especially Jeanette James, for 

their substantive work to improve H.R. 5458. 
12 

I am pleased to testify in support of H.R. 5458, the Veterans 

TRICARE Choice Act. It is truly an honor to represent not only the 

many veterans within our association, but all of our Nation’s veterans and their families, who have made such large sacrifices to 

protect our way of life. 

Upon entering military service, every Active Duty, reservist, and 

National Guardsman is enrolled in the Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System, or DEERS. When the service member retires, he or she remains in DEERS and becomes immediately eligible for TRICARE benefits. 

Under section 223 of the Internal Revenue Code, a simple 

TRICARE eligibility precludes that military retiree from making 

contributions to or receiving employer contributions to an HRA— 

excuse me—an HSA, health savings account. 

The genesis of the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act came about 

during the FedEx pilot group’s latest round of contract negotiations 

in 2014. Our healthcare experts proposed a high deductible healthcare plan with HSA, which would save our corporation money and 

also protect the pilots’ healthcare benefits. But while conducting 

additional research, we realized that the TRICARE-eligible pilots 

would not be allowed to participate in the HSA portion of the plan, 

because as I stated earlier, TRICARE is not HSA compliant under 

the Internal Revenue Code. 

We further realized that the negative consequences would not 

only impact our members but also could impact millions of our Nation’s veterans that are TRICARE eligible. We brought this to Congressman Chris Stewart’s attention, himself a B–1 bomber pilot for 

the Air Force. And in a great example of interservice support and 

bipartisanship, he joined forces with Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, who currently serves as a major in the Army, in the Hawaii 

Army National Guard, and with that, the Veterans TRICARE 

Choice Act was introduced. 

This legislation solves the problem of a TRICARE-eligible individual’s inability to participate in an HSA by allowing the individual to voluntarily pause his or her TRICARE benefits in 

DEERS. During this period, the individual could participate in 

their employer’s healthcare plan and HSA, the same as their civilian coworker. At any point in the future, if the individual decided 

that his or her TRICARE benefits would be a better fit, he or she 

could elect to return to TRICARE during an annual open enrollment period or upon a qualifying life event. 

The seamless transition back to TRICARE is made possible because the military retiree’s information is retained in DEERS. This 

bill gives TRICARE-eligible individuals the flexibility to best care 

for their families and ensures them the same access to healthcare 

benefits that their civilian counterparts have. 

Now, some might argue that access to a health reimbursement 

account, or HRA, provides the same benefit as an HSA. While it 

is a similar benefit, there are some important differences. A health 

reimbursement account is just that, it is an account for reimbursement. It is an employer-controlled account funded only by the employer to reimburse the employee for approved medical expenses. 

An HSA, however, is an account that is employee controlled, that 

the employer and employee may deposit money into together. 
13 

In 2016, an individual with family coverage may have up to $6,750 deposited in an HSA, with an additional $1,000 for those 55 

years of age and older. Assuming current contribution limits, a 

military retiree who retires at 40 would potentially have $178,750 

deposited into an HSA over a 25-year period. This is money that 

can be invested and used for any future medical expense tax free. 

This legislation is a commonsense solution to ensure that our 

veterans have access to the same healthcare options offered by 

their employers to their civilian coworkers, and it gives them the 

flexibility to make the best choices for their family’s healthcare 

needs. 

I thank you for your time and for your support of H.R. 5458, and 

I look forward to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Secord can be found in the Appendix on page 35.] 

Dr. HECK. All right. Thank you. 

So let me make sure I kind of—I am going to walk through a 

hypothetical timeline and you tell me how this works. So somebody 

enlisted at the age of 18, they retire after 20. At 38, they are 

TRICARE eligible, but they opt not to take their TRICARE benefits 

because instead they are going to take another employee-based 

plan as a high deductible HSA-based plan. But in order to do that 

currently, they have to opt out of TRICARE, which they cannot do? 

Mr. SECORD. Correct. Yeah, they currently cannot do that because they are not eligible for the HSA. 

Dr. HECK. And then at some point in the future, let’s say they 

get to 65 and now they decide they want to go TRICARE For Life, 

they come back in—or if they leave that one employer, you know, 

and go someplace to another employer that doesn’t offer the same 

high deductible HSA plan, they can come back into TRICARE? 

Mr. SECORD. Yes, sir. 

Dr. HECK. So from your perspective, then, what would be—what 

do you see as the most tangible benefit of allowing the military retirees to be able to opt out of TRICARE to purchase the high deductible plan with the HSA? 

Mr. SECORD. Simple choice. It gives them the same options that 

their civilian coworkers have. I never had the honor of serving, but 

I think that a veteran should have every option that I do in our 

healthcare choices. 

Dr. HECK. Any estimate of how many military retirees? I mean, 

has there been a survey or anything that has been done to look at 

how many people might be interested in taking advantage of this 

option? 

Mr. SECORD. No, sir, there are no numbers. 

Dr. HECK. I have no further questions. 

Mrs. Davis. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you for being here and for presenting it. 

Do we have any idea of how this would score? 

Mr. SECORD. Yes, ma’am. And I will quote the CBO [Congressional Budget Office] cost estimate. It said, quote, ‘‘CBO estimates 

that the effects on direct spending and spending subject to appropriation would be insignificant in any year and in total—in any 

year and in total over the 2017 to 2026 time period.’’ So insignificant. 
14 

Mrs. DAVIS. Insignificant. Because it seems as if there would certainly be a hit, but maybe there are so few people that would be 

involved. Is that why? 

Mr. SECORD. That would be—I mean, I could speculate that— 

speculation, my guess would be that it would not be a large portion 

of veterans that would participate, but yes. 

Mrs. DAVIS. If beneficiaries were required to actively enroll in 

TRICARE, regardless if it was Prime or Standard to be eligible, 

would that alleviate the problem—— 

Mr. SECORD. No, ma’am. 

Mrs. DAVIS [continuing]. For those with high deductible? 

Mr. SECORD. I’m sorry, could you ask the question again? 

Mrs. DAVIS. If the beneficiaries were required to actively enroll 

in TRICARE, regardless if it was Prime or Standard to be eligible, 

would that then alleviate the problem for those with high deductible health insurance plans offered by their employer? 

Mr. SECORD. No, ma’am. Regardless of the TRICARE benefit that 

they have, they are not eligible under TRICARE. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Okay. They wouldn’t be eligible? 

Mr. SECORD. No, ma’am. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Okay. Thank you. I am still trying to get it. Thank 

you. 

Dr. HECK. So just because they are—even though they are not 

on TRICARE, they are retired, they are not using their TRICARE 

benefit, but just because they have the marker of being TRICARE 

eligible, under IRS [Internal Revenue Service] rules they are not 

able to use a high deductible HSA plan? 

Mr. SECORD. Yes, sir. 

Dr. HECK. Okay. Mr. Coffman. 

Mr. COFFMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Do we—so this hasn’t been scored in terms of the actual cost of 

this, not to DOD [Department of Defense], but to Treasury? 

Mr. SECORD. All I have is what I read, just that CBO estimates 

that it is insignificant in the 10-year period. I don’t have any—— 

Mr. COFFMAN. I don’t see why those—I am on TRICARE. 

Mr. SECORD. Sure. 

Mr. COFFMAN. But I didn’t come on until age 60 because I have 

a Reserve retirement. But for those people on Active Duty, they 

will come off—you know, they can be 40, they can be as young as— 

well, they can be as young as 38. But probably the average age for 

somebody serving 20 years would probably be around 42, 43, 44 

years old. And so, you know, if they don’t want to take the benefit 

of TRICARE, if they want to delay that benefit and go with an 

HSA, they ought to be able to do that, I would think. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Dr. HECK. All right. Well, as the sole witness, we appreciate your 

being here today to present on the bill. We will take it under advisement and see if there is a path forward. 

Mr. SECORD. Thank you, sir. 

Dr. HECK. There being no further business before the committee, 

we stand adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:45 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 
A P P E N D I X 

SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 

PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD 

SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 

(19) 

Statement of Chairman Joseph J. Heck 

Subcommittee on Military Personnel 

HEARING ON 

Views on H.R. 4298, Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act; and 

H.R. 5458, Veterans TRICARE Choice Act 

September 8, 2016 

Today the Subcommittee meets to hear testimony on two important but 

diverse subjects: 

the eligibility ofTRICARE beneficiaries to enroll in Health Savings 

Accounts, or HSAs, 

and the placement of a memorial within Arlington National Cemetery 

to honor helicopter pilots and crewmembers who died while flying 

helicopters in combat in Vietnam. 

I want to thank Representative Mark Amodei from my home State of 

Nevada and Representative Chris Stewart from Utah for introducing H.R. 

4298, The Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act and H.R. 5458, The 

Veteran's TRICARE Choice Act, respectively. 

l appreciate your support for our service members and retirees and for 

your willingness to honor those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. 

I welcome you both here today. 

We have two panels today, the first to discuss The Vietnam Helicopter 

Crew Memorial Act and the second to discuss The Veteran's TRICARE 

Choice Act. 

I am interested in hearing from our witnesses today their views on each 

of these bills that have been introduced in the House of Representatives. 

With that, I want to welcome our witnesses and I look forward to their 

testimony. 

Let me welcome our first panel: 

The Honorable Mark E. Amodei 

2nd District, Nevada 

Mr. Patrick Hallinan 

Executive Director 

Arlington National Cemetery 

Mr. Bob Hesselbein 

Chairman, Legacy Committee 

Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association 
20 

Let me welcome our second panel: 

Mr. Bill Secord 

Legislative Affairs Chairman 

Air Line Pilots Association 
21 

TESTIMONY OF 

CONGRESSMAN MARK E. AMODEI (NV-2) 

LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON H.R. 4298: 

THE VIETNAM HELICOPTER CREW MEMORIAL ACT 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL 

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

September 8, 2016 

Chainnan Heck, Ranking Member Davis, and distinguished members of the Committee: thank 

you for holding this hearing today and for the opportunity to testifY on my legislation, H.R. 4298, 

the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act. I appreciate your interest in my bill and look 

forward to working with all members of this Committee to advance this important legislation. 

As you know, the Vietnam War was the first campaign in which the United States military 

heavily relied upon helicopters for transportation and combat. Helicopters proved to be a vital 

part of war efiorts, particularly during Operation Frequent Wind wherein they were used to 

evacuate about 7,000 Americans and Vietnamese from Saigon. The brave pilots and crew 

members who manned the helicopters touched nearly every aspect of the war. Many of these 

pilots and crew members are now laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery. 

Mr. William Dennison, a constituent of mine, first ale1ied me to the efforts of the Vietnam 

Helicopter Pilots Association (VHPA) and the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Members Association 

(VHCMA) to place a commemorative memorial in Arlington National Cemetery in April20 15. 

A legislative option tor the pilots and crew members that died in combat became necessary after 

the proposed memorial was denied. H.R. 4298 directs the Secretary of the Army to place 

memorial in Arlington National Cemetery to honor these veterans who paid the ultimate cost. 

Since H.R. 4298 was introduced, Arlington National Cemetery has graciously hosted me twice to 

share their views and show me the cemetery. I understand and appreciate their mission and the 

necessity of saving all available land for grave space. However, I have concerns by the processes 

in which they decide what commemorative memorials can be placed within the Cemetery. 

As you might be aware, when the V! IPA presented their plan to the Advisory Committee on 

Arlington National Cemetery (ACANC) the Committee had a split vote of three to three. 

Therefore, the Committee was unable to render a definitive recommendation. Regardless, the 

Secretary of the Anny decided to approve a tree plaque and a virtual memorial, rather than the 

proposed plan. 
22 

It appears the decision rendered by the ACANC is completely subjective to the rest of the 

deliberative process. Given the iconic nature of rotary wing aircraft, the number of individuals 

whose lives depended upon helicopters during the war, and the number of those individuals 

interred at Arlin~:,'lon National Cemetery, this application and these veterans are worthy of more 

than a simple tree plaque and a viitual tour. 

The process in place failed these veterans. There ought to be objective standards in place to 

ensure that worthy memorials gain rightful consideration and, ultimately, placement in Arlington 

National Cemetery. This process lacks transparency and any measureable standard for a proposal 

being approved or disapproved. I understand that not every proposed memorial can be accepted 

by Arlington. However, when only two memorials without associated remains have been 

installed in Arlington in the last twenty-five years, I believe that this should be taken as a sign 

that the process needs to be revised. 

While H.R. 4298 may not change this process, it would ensure that a group of veterans who are 

more than worthy of a memorial, receive proper recognition. l am proud to support this group of 

veterans and appreciate the Subcommittee's consideration. 
23 

Mark E. Amodei 

Republican of Carson City, Nev. 

Elected to the 112th Congress on September 13,2011 

BORN: 

Carson City, June 12, 1958 

EDUCATION: 

Bachelors of Arts, University of Nevada, Reno, 1980 

Juris Doctor, University of Pacific, McGeorge School of Law, 1983 

EXPERIENCE: 

Lawyer, sole practitioner, 2009-Present 

President, Nevada Mining Association, 2007-2008 

Lawyer, Kummer, eta!., 2004-2007 

Lawyer, Allison, MacKenzie, eta!., 1987-2004 

Lawyer, United States Army, Judge Advocate General Corps, 1983-1987 

Nevada State Assembly, 1996-1998 

Nevada State Senate, 1998-2010 

President Pro Tempore, Nevada State Senate, 2003-2008 

Member, Colorado River Commission 

Member, Uniform State Law Commission 

Member of Tahoe Regional Planning Agency Legislative Oversight Committee 

CHILDREN: 

Daughters Ryanne and Erin 
24 

RECORD VERSION 

STATEMENT BY 

MR. PATRICK K. HALLINAN 

EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ARMY NATIONAL MILITARY CEMETERIES 

BEFORE THE 

ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL 

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

SECOND SESSION, 114TH CONGRESS 

ON DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY'S VIEWS ON 

THE VIETNAM HELICOPTER CREW MEMORIAL ACT 

SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 

NOT FOR PUBLICATION UNTIL RELEASED BY THE 

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 
25 

STATEMENT BY MR. PATRICK K. HALLINAN 

INTRODUCTION 

Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis, and distinguished members of the 

Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department of the Army's 

view on the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act. 

Arlington National Cemetery is our Nation's unique and iconic resting place 

devoted to those individuals who made a significant sacrifice and commitment to the 

defense of our country in the armed services. Arlington National Cemetery is recognized 

as a national treasure and is an active military cemetery, interring over 7,000 individuals 

annually. Since 1864, these hallowed grounds have been the final resting place for more 

than 400,000 active duty service members, veterans and their families. It is our duty, and 

the United States Army's commitment, to ensure that Arlington National Cemetery 

remains an active cemetery as long as space accommodations allow to honor and serve 

our Nation's military heroes. On behalf of the cemetery and the Department of the Army, 

I express our appreciation for the support that Congress has provided over the years. 

HISTORY OF COMMEMORATIVE MONUMENTS IN THE CEMETERY 

Prior to 2012, commemorative monuments and plaques were approved in 

accordance with Title 31, Code of Federal Regulations Part 553 and required a joint or 

concurrent resolution by Congress. Public Law 112-154 established a more deliberative 

process and included specific parameters, due process, and decision authority for 

commemorative monument approval, including Congressional review and overriding 

disapproval authority. Additionally, this law directs Arlington National Cemetery to 

preserve space not conducive to ground burial of human remains for the memorization of 

individual service members whose remains are missing, never recovered, scattered or 

buried at sea. Over the past 25 years only four monuments have been approved and 

installed in Arlington National Cemetery. The two most recent in 2002 and 2011 - the 
26 

Battle of the Bulge and the Jewish Chaplain's Memorial, respectively, were authorized 

through congressional legislation. 

VIETNAM HELICOPTER CREW MEMORIAL ACT 

The proposed Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act legislation, as drafted, would 

direct the Secretary of the Army to place in Arlington National Cemetery a memorial 

honoring the helicopter pilots and crew members of the Vietnam era, and for other 

purposes. 

This legislation does not address the broader concern of preserving the life of the 

cemetery well into the future. By virtue of longstanding Army policy and rulemaking, 

commemorative monuments may only be placed in Arlington National Cemetery after a 

collaborative and deliberate process. Monuments reduce land that would otherwise be 

used for burial memorialization of our killed in action, deceased active duty service 

members, veterans, and their eligible family members. 

The initial request from the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association was processed 

in accordance with the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act and Public Law. The 

appropriate congressional oversight committees were notified of the Secretary of the 

Army's decision to disapprove the request for a commemorative monument. In its stead, 

he approved the placement of a plaque at the base of a living tree. While other veteran 

organizations have had their requests for tree plaques disapproved in order to preserve 

space in the cemetery, the Secretary chose to allow a tree plaque to honor the members 

of the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association. 

Given the present rate of burials and the dwindling inventory of available gravesites 

and niches, Arlington National Cemetery will close for first interments or inurnments in the 

2030s. The reality is that space is finite. Each year, ground burial is denied to veterans 

who service does not rise to the level to justify displacement of an eligible veteran. 

2 
27 

Additionally, under current eligibility any future casualties our Nation sustains after the 

2030's may not find space available at Arlington National Cemetery for those who pay the 

ultimate sacrifice - our Killed in Action service-members. 

Arlington National Cemetery is devoted to ensuring the most important memorials 

are placed on its hallowed grounds. Those are the individual government headstones 

marking the resting place of veterans who have served and sacrificed their life in service 

to our Nation. We are responsible for ensuring commemoration in perpetuity, as 

established by law. Maintaining individual memorialization of those who have earned a 

place at Arlington National Cemetery is the most important responsibility we as a Nation 

hold at Arlington National Cemetery. This was the key consideration for the cemetery 

staff and the Advisory Committee on Arlington National Cemetery when they reviewed 

and made their recommendation to the Secretary of the Army. His thoughtful and detailed 

review found the same and resulted in his decision. 

CONCLUSION 

The Army understands the general intent of the legislation to honor these veterans 

and their service. However, as stewards of our most hallowed military burial grounds, 

Arlington National Cemetery must diligently preserve land which is ultimately designated 

for the sole purpose of providing the final resting places for our heroes who are killed in 

action, active duty service members, veterans, and their eligible family members. Any 

structure be it commemorative or utilitarian in nature - that diverts from the expressed 

mission should be placed in other locations suitable for their representation. 

Chairman Heck and Ranking Member Davis, this concludes my testimony. I will 

gladly respond to any questions that you or the subcommittee members may have. 

3 
28 

Patrick K. Hallinan 

Executive Director 

Army National Military Cemeteries 

Office of the Secretary of the Army 

Patrick K. Hallinan, Executive Director, Army National Military Cemeteries, 

reports directly to the Secretary of the Army and is dual-hatted as a Headquarters, 

Department of the Army (HQDA) Statf Principal and Executive Director of the 

Direct Report Unit, U.S. Army Element Arlington National Cemetery. 

Mr. Hallinan served as Superintendent, Arlington National Cemetery from October 2010 

to July 2013. He was detailed from the Department ofVeterans Affairs to the Department 

of the Army as Acting Superintendent from June l 0, 2010 to October 10, 2010. Prior to 

his assignment at Arlington, Mr. Hall in an had served as the Director of the Oftice of Field 

Programs, National Cemetery Administration, Department of Veterans Affairs, since Oct. 

20, 2008. As Director, Mr. Hallinan was responsible for the development and 

implementation ofNational Cemetery policy, procedures, and centralized guidance related 

to national cemetery operations, with a 2010 total budget of$550 million. He had 

oversight responsibilities for five Memorial Service Network oftices, 131 national 

cemeteries, entailing 3.1 million gravesites and 19,000 acres. He also had responsibility 

for the Memorial Programs Service, the NCA National Training Center, the NCA Human 

Resource Center, the NCA National Cemetery Scheduling Office, the First Notice of 

Death office and the National Safety Program. Prior to this assignment, he had served as 

associate director of the Office of Field Programs since June 15, 2003. 

Mr. Hallinan joined the National Cemetery System as a temporary laborer at Long 

Island National Cemetery in New York in 1977. During a period of more than 36 years 

of cemetery service, he has held various positions from basic laborer to work 

supervisor, assistant cemetery director and director. He has had more than 27 years of 

direct supervisory experience. Mr. Hallinan is also one ofthe original 37 employees 

who opened Calverton National Cemetery in New York in September 1978. 

Mr. Hallinan was selected to be the director of Calvetton National Cemetery in August 

1994. During his tenure, Mr. Hallinan and his employees were presented with the "VA 

Secretary's Award" by Secretary Anthony Principi for their dedicated efforts on behalf of 

Veterans' families whose loved ones were victims of the terrorist attacks in New York on 

Sept. ll, 200 1. Mr. Hallinan was presented the "1 99 5 Leadership VA A ward" by the VA 

Deputy Secretary Hershel Gober on Aug. 17, 1995 and on Sept. 26, 1996, and under Mr. 

Hallinan's leadership, Calverton National Cemetery won the prestigious "Robett W. 

Carey Quality Award," VA's highest quality management award. He and the staff he lead 

received three VA Scissor Awards for cutting red tape and improving services on behalf 

ofthe Nation's Veterans and their families. He was a finalist in the FYI3 Presidential 

Rank Awards and in 2015, received a Department of the Army Decoration for 

Exceptional Civilian Service from the Secretary of the Anny, the Silver Helmet Civil 

Servant of the Year Award from American Veterans (AMVETS), and the Commanderin-Chief Gold Medal ofMerit Award from the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW). 

Before joining the Department of Veterans Affairs, Mr. Hallinan served as an 

infantry squad leader with the U.S. Marine Corps. His military service gives him 

more than 40 years of federal service. Mr. Hallinan is a Vietnam Era Veteran and a 

life member ofthe Disabled American Veterans (DAY). 
29 

Mr. Hallinan attended college under the G.I. Bill during the evening while working 

for the cemetery full-time during the day. He graduated from Suffolk Community 

College in Long Island with an associate's degree in liberal arts and continued to 

pursue his education, completing a Bachelor of Arts degree in Social Science (prelaw) Magna Cum Laude from Dowling College in Oakdale, NY. 

As ofNovember 2015 
30 

Written Statement of 

Lieutenant Colonel Bob Hesselbein, USAF, Retired 

Legacy Committee Chairman 

Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association 

2100 N. Highway 360, Suite 907 

Grand Prairie, TX 75050-1030 

608.628.9024 

On behalf of the 

Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association 

and 

the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Member Association 

H.R. 4298: The Vietnam Helicopter Crewmember Memorial Act 

Before the 

House Armed Services Military Personnel Subcommittee 

U.S. House of Representatives 

Washington, DC 

Robert Hesselbein-, Lega>::y Committee Ch<Jirman, repr-esenting VietnLim Helicopter Pilots Association 
31 

Subcommittee Chairman Heck, Vice Chairman MacArthur, Ranking Member Davis, and other 

distinguished members of the Committee: It is a privilege to appear before you today on behalf of the 

Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association and Vietnam Helicopter Crew Members Association to speak in 

favor of H.R. 4298, The Vietnam Helicopter Crew Member Act. 

The Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association (VHPA) and Vietnam Helicopter Crew Members 

Association (VHCMA) are non-governmental, non-profit war veterans organizations filed under Section 

501(c)(19) of the Internal Revenue Service. Currently over 10,000 members strong, the organizations are 

comprised of individuals from all branches of military service who earned their membership as combat 

helicopter pilots and crew members in the Vietnam War, the war commonly described as, "the Helicopter 

War." I also speak informally on behalf of many Gold Star Families who still mourn the loss of their 

husband, son or brother killed while operating rotary-wing aircraft in Southeast Asia between 1961 and 

1975. 

The goal of H.R. 4298 is to place a simple memorial within the hollowed grounds of Arlington 

National Cemetery (ANC) to honor those who died while flying combat helicopter missions in the Vietnam 

War. Today, some 41 years after the end of the war, no single, all-service monument stands to recognize 

the combined sacrifice and honor ofthe approximately 5,000 rotary-wing pilots, crew chiefs, medics and 

door gunners who gave the last full measure of devotion during the conflict, many of whom lie buried 

within ANC. 

During the Vietnam War the helicopter became the mainstay for joint operational mobility. 

Approximately 12,000 helicopters operated within the Theater of Operation and were used by all military 

services: Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force. Of this number, 5,086 were destroyed by enemy fire or 

mishaps related to combat operations, maintenance and weather. 

Pilot, non-pilot crewmember casualties (crew chiefs, door gunners and medics), and passenger 

losses were also significant The Department of Defense estimates 2,002 pilots were killed, 2704 non-pilot 

crewmembers died, and at least 532 United States military passengers perished during UH-1 helicopter 

missions alone (note: South Vietnamese casualties are unknown). A conservative estimate suggests a 

minimum of 5,238 Americans, roughly 9 percent of the 58,307 recorded fatalities, died in military 

helicopters. 

Helicopters, and the brave crews who operated these machines, stand as the iconic symbol of the 

Vietnam War. Virtually all writings, documentaries and films of the War include remembrances of combat 

helicopters because they were ubiquitous to the experience. 

Despite the Vietnam War being described as the "Helicopter War," and the UH-1 Iroquois 

Helicopter being recognized as the iconic symbol of the war, no specific memorial exists, anywhere, strictly 

honoring helicopter pilots and crewmembers who died while serving in combat. Individual branches of 

service have branch-specific memorials such as the United States Army Aviation Museum Vietnam 

-Robert Hesse!bein, Legacy Committee Chairman, repr-esenting Vietnam Helicopter Pil-ots Associ.ution 
32 

Memorial that lists the names of 4,347 aviation casualties, but no one memorial remembers all helicopter 

losses from all military services. Likewise, no military cemetery possesses a memorial specifically 

dedicated to those who died in rotary-wing combat in Vietnam, Cambodia and laos. 

No other military cemetery provides a superior location to Arlington National Cemetery (ANC), 

and it is the logical place to honor those who flew and died in helicopters during the Vietnam War. 

Arlington holds the remains of many individual pilots and crewmembers who were immediately interred 

during the war-some 20 percent of all immediately buried--and is the only military cemetery that holds 

the recovered remains of formerly Missing in Action (MIA) pilots and crewmembers, often whole crews, 

buried in common plots within Section 60 and elsewhere. Helicopter heroes and Medal of Honor 

recipients buried in ANC include Ed W. Freeman, Michael J. Novosel, Gerald 0. Young, and former MIA 

Jon E. Swanson. 

In addition to the graves of immediate helicopter casualties of the Vietnam War, ANC is also the 

final resting place for numerous veteran helicopter pilots, crewmembers and passengers who served 

during the war and have passed away since the conflict's end in 1975. It is reasonable to conclude this 

trend will continue for several decades to come. 

ANC holds symbolic value not found elsewhere. As New York City is the national center of finance, 

and Washington, DC the center of government, ANC is the heart of remembering the true cost of war; it 

is the place America goes to honor our nation's military heroes, our fallen warriors; and to we veterans of 

war, this the place we go visit our friends lost so very long ago. 

The proposed Vietnam Helicopter Pilot and Crewmember Memorial is designed to blend into the 

aesthetic of ANC and share the structural attributes of the existing granite markers used to identify the 

comingled remains of recovered Missing in Action (MIA) crews. The memorial, as currently designed, 

portrays a UH-1 "Huey" helicopter with crew approaching a safe landing zone (note: with weapons 

stowed) at the top, military branch seals at the bottom, and a brief statement honoring the sacrifice of 

those who died. The Memorial will be constructed, emplaced and preserved by private donations, as 

required by Department of the Army, DOD§ 553.21. 

Certain voices state ANC cannot accept additional memorials, and that all unused ground must be 

reserved for future graves. There is merit to this view, and we agree assigning space within the cemetery 

should be carefully considered. Space does exist within the grounds that are clearly unsuitable for burial 

due to submerged utilities and tree roots, however, and these areas remain suitable for small memorials 

such as that proposed within H.R. 4298. 

Some fear passage of H.R 4298 will result in a flood of legislation placing similar tribute 

monuments within ANC, but history does not support this idea. The last veteran memorial placed within 

ANC by legislation, the Battle of the Bulge Memorial, was authorized on December 6, 2002 by The 

.Robert Hessdbein, Legacy C:ornrnittee Chairman, repre~entlngVietnam Helicopter Pilots Associ-ation 
33 

Veterans Benefits Act Of 2002, Public Law 107-330. Since this act some 14 years ago, no other combat 

memorial tributes have been legislated into the cemetery. 

It is also unlikely many Vietnam-era organizations will also seek tribute space in the future. The 

average Vietnam Veteran is now T2 years old during this, the 50th commemoration of the Vietnam War. I 

was a 19-year old combat helicopter pilot in the final full year of the war, and I am now 64. We are aging 

and almost past the time for seeking memorials. 

Arlington National Cemetery is not opposed to honoring the helicopter pilots and crew members 

who died in the Vietnam War, the question is what Is worthy? The VHPA was notified by letter on 

September 23, 2015 of authorization to place a small, commemorative plaque at the base of a living tree 

donated in honor of those who died operating helicopters in the war. We find it inappropriate. Of the 142 

existing tree marker plaques in ANC, none give tribute to the magnitude of 13 years of war and almost 

5,000 combat deaths; the smalll.S square foot tree marker fails to fully honor the long, painful sacrifice. 

H.R. 4298 is Important to many attending this hearing today. I, like almost all the Vietnam 

Veterans in this room eligible for burial in ANC, would gladly surrender my place in exchange for installing 

this important and overdue memorial to our brothers who gave their very young lives in service to the 

nation. 

During this, the SO'h year of the Vietnam War Commemoration, we respectfully come before you 

asking for three and one-half more feet of hallowed ground In Arlington National Cemetery. For all the 

right reasons--location, numbers of Interred helicopter pilots and crewmembers buried in commonalityof-service without regard to military branch, honor and service--we ask for five square feet of ground to 

honor, and to remember, the almost 5,000 Americans who gave their lives operating rotary-wing aircraft 

in the "Helicopter War" of Vietnam. We ask your support of H.R. 4298, The Vietnam Crewmember 

Memorial Act. 

Respectfully submitted, 

Bob Hesselbein 

Legacy Committee Chairman 

Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association 

Robert Hesse!bein, LegDcy Committee t.huirman, repr-esenting Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Assocl~ltion 
34 

Robert Hesselbein 

Robert "Bob" Hesselbein is a lifelong professional pilot and recognized administrator, aviation safety and 

security expert. He flew throughout the world for Northwest and Delta Air Lines piloting Boeing, Airbus 

and McDonnell-Douglas aircraft. He is a career military pilot, a highly-decorated combat veteran, a 

trained safety/accident investigator focused on human factors, and a graduate of the prestigious United 

States Air Force Weapons Instructor School. 

Hesselbein served in many positions of responsibility both inside and outside the flightdeck. At the age of 

nineteen he began his flying career as a U.S. Army helicopter gunship pilot flying the AH-1G attack 

helicopter during combat operations in Vietnam and Cambodia. He then transitioned to the United States 

Air Force (USAF), and later the Wisconsin Air National Guard, flying A-10 and F-16 jet fighters until his 

retirement as a lieutenant colonel in 2000. 

In 1983 he attended the USAF Flight Safety Officer Course. Following graduation, he specialized in human 

factors research involving perceptual errors and response, and in 1985 his work led to significant 

revisions in flight training procedures throughout the United States Air Force. Additionally, he designed a 

solution to a flight control loss phenomena causing fatal accidents in two-seat F-16 fighters. His solution 

was employed worldwide. 

1n 1986 Captain Hesselbein began a dual career flying passengers and cargo for Northwest Air Lines and 

military fighters for the Wisconsin Air National Guard. He also became actively involved sharing his 

safety expertise as a member of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA). 

Following the tragedy of September 11, 2001, he was selected to chair the Air Line Pilots Association 

(ALPA) National Security Committee in Washington, DC (2004-2008). As the NSC Chairman, Captain 

Hesselbein provided oversight of all committee activities ranging from airport security to flight deck 

defense, participated in government and industry meetings, and made presentations to the public and 

media, world-wide, to represent the security interests of 62,000 airline pilots in North America, their 

crewmembers, passengers and cargo. 

Captain Hesselbein possesses an extensive background in aviation security. He performed airborne 

counter-drug surveillance duties in support of diverse law enforcement agencies, researched and created 

the current standard airline crewmember procedures guide for countering inflight 

Chemical/BiologicaljNuclearjRadiological threats, and continues to provides a pilot-based security 

perspective to government entities and the aerospace industry through his liaison, writing and public 

speaking venues. 

Retired from Delta Air Lines and living in the Madison, WI area, he served on the Middleton Cross-Plains 

Area School District Board of Education, and continues to fly, write, and serve as a pilot for AIR-ONE, a 

volunteer law enforcement aviation coalition flying helicopters in Illinois and Wisconsin. 

A veteran with thirty years of combined military service, he continues to participate in military legacy 

activities. He is a former Vietnam Helicopter Pilot Association (VHPA) President, serves on the Wisconsin 

Znd Congressional District Service School Selection Board, is a docent and presenter specializing in the 

Vietnam War at the Wisconsin State Veterans Museum. Providing military education tours at Civil War 

National Military Parks, he is a member of the Order of Daedalians, Red River Valley Fighter Pilots 

Association, Air Force Association and Veterans of Foreign Wars. 

He is married to Wisconsin State Representative Dianne Hesselbein (79th District). They and their three 

children reside in Middleton, Wisconsin. 
35 

Testimony of Mr. Bill Secord 

First Officer, FedEx Express 

before the 

Subcommittee on Military Personnel 

U.S. House Committee on Armed Services 

"Views on H.R. 4298: Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act and H.R. 

5458: Veterans TRICARE Choice Act" 

September 8, 2016 

I'd like to start by thanking Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis and the 

distinguished Members of this Subcommittee for inviting me today. I'd also 

like to thank the Military Personnel Subcommittee staff, especially Jeanette 

James, for their substantive work to improve H.R. 5458, the Veterans 

TRICARE Choice Act. 

I am pleased to testify in support of H.R. 5458, the Veterans TRICARE Choice 

Act. It is truly an honor to represent not only the many veterans within our 

Association but all of our nation's veterans and their families who have made 

such large sacrifices to protect our way of life. 

Upon entering military service, every Active Duty, Reservist and National 

Guardsman is enrolled in the Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System 

(DEERS). When the service member retires, he or she remains in DEERS and 

becomes immediately eligible for coverage under the TRICARE program. 

Simple TRICARE eligibility precludes the military retiree from making 

contributions to, or receiving employer contributions to, a Health Savings 

Account (HSA). This is because coverage options under TRICARE do not meet 

the minimum annual deductible requirements for a High Deductable Health 

Insurance Plan under Section 223 of the Internal Revenue Code. 

The genesis of the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act came about during the FedEx 

pilot group's latest round of contract negotiations in 2014. Our healthcare 

experts proposed a high deductable health insurance plan accompanied by an 

HSA which would save our corporation money while protecting the pilot's 

healthcare benefits. While conducting additional research, we realized that 

TRICARE eligible pilots would not be allowed to participate in the HSA 

portion of the plan because, as I stated earlier, TRICARE is not HSA compliant 

under the Internal Revenue Code. We further realized that these negative 

consequences would not only impact our members, but all of our nation's 

TRICARE eligible veterans. 
36 

We brought this to Congressman Chris Stewart's attention, himself a 

decorated, world record holding 8-1 bomber pilot for the Air Force. In a great 

example of inter-service support and bipartisanship, he joined forces with 

Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard who currently serves as a Major in the Hawaii 

Army National Guard. With that, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act was 

introduced. 

This legislation solves the problem of a TRICARE eligible individual's inability 

to participate in an HSA by allowing the individual to voluntarily pause his or 

her TRICARE benefits in DEERS. During this period, the individual could 

participate in their employer's healthcare plan and HSA the same as their 

civilian coworkers. At any point in the future, if the individual decided that 

his or her TRICARE benefits would be a better fit, he or she could elect to 

return to TRICARE during an annual open enrollment period or upon a 

qualifying life event. The transition back to TRICARE is made possible 

because the military retiree's information is retained in DEERS. This bill gives 

TRICARE eligible individuals the flexibility to best care for their families and 

ensures them access to the same health care benefits that their civilian 

counterparts have. 

Some might argue that access to a Health Reimbursement Account provides 

the same benefit as an HSA. While it is a similar benefit, there are some 

important differences. A Health Reimbursement Account is exactly that- an 

account for reimbursement. It is an employer-controlled account funded by 

only the employer to reimburse the employee for approved medical expenses. 

An HSA, however, is an account that is employee- controlled that the 

employer and employee may deposit money into together. 

In 2016, an individual with family coverage may have up to $6,750 deposited 

in an HSA with an additional $1,000 for those 55 years of age and older. A 

military retiree who retires at 40 would potentially have $178,750 deposited 

into an HSA over a 25-year period. This is money that can be invested and 

used for any future medical expense, tax-free. At the age of 65, the individual, 

at his or her discretion, may continue to use the money, tax-free, to cover 

medical expenses or may use the money for non-medical spending which 

would then be taxed at their current tax rate. 

This legislation is a common sense solution to ensure that our veterans have 

access to the same healthcare options offered by their employers to their 

civilian coworkers and gives them the flexibility to make the best choices for 

their family's healthcare needs. 
37 

Thank you for your time and for your support of H.R. 5458. I look forward to 

your questions. 
38 

First Officer Bill Secord is the Legislative Affairs Chairman for the Fed Ex Express 

Master Executive Council within the Air Line Pilots Association. He works closely 

with the over 55,000 member pilots of ALPA, Members of Congress and with their 

staff to advance ALPA' s strategic legislative goals including the safe carriage of 

lithium batteries by air, protecting member's health care benefits, flight deck 

protective programs such as the Federal Flight Deck Officer Program and for other 

safety and security programs. Bill also serves as a Pilot-to-Pilot Coordinator and as 

a member of the ALPA National Appeal Board. 

In April2015, First Officer Secord was awarded the Presidential Volunteer Service 

Award in recognition ofFFDO lifetime achievement. 

After starting his professional aviation career as a corporate pilot, Bill was hired by 

Trans World Airlines in January 2001 to fly the MD80. Departing TWA in October 

2001, he moved back into corporate aviation and was recruited as Chief Pilot for the 

nation's largest trailer manufacturer. Later that same year, the FAA selected Bill as 

the nation's youngest Designated Pilot Examiner. As such, he was responsible for 

conducting practical test on their behalf and certifying new pilots. 

In 2006, Bill started his career with Fed Ex Express as a B727 second officer. He is 

currently an Anchorage based MD-11 first officer and holds type ratings in the 

BE200, BE400, MD80, B727 and MD-11. 

First Officer Secord graduated from Bob Jones University with a BS in Business and 

Commercial Aviation. He and his wife, Sabina, live in Greenville, SC with their four 

children. 
39 
40 
41 

DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD 

SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 

(45) 

Statement of 

The National Association for Uniformed Services 

on 

H.R. 4298, the Vietnam Helicopter Crewmemhers Memorial 

Act 

submitted for consideration by 

Rick Jones, Legislative Director 

National Association for Uniformed Services 

to the 

Subcommittee on Military Personnel, 

Committee on Armed Services 

Thursday, Sept. 8, 2016 

Rayburn House Office Building 
46 

Introduction 

Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis and Members of the Subcommittee, the 

National Association for Unifonned Services thanks you for holding this hearing to 

discuss H.R. 4298 the Vietnam Helicopter Crewmembers Memorial Act. 

The National Association for Uniformed Services strongly supports favorable action on 

the Vietnam Helicopter Crewmembers Memorial Act. The legislation, introduced by 

Nevada Congressman Mark Amodei, would establish a memorial at Arlington National 

Cemetery to honor the collective valor of 5,000 Helicopter Pilots and Crewmembers who 

died during the War in Vietnam. 

Frequently Asked Questions (FA Qs) H.R. 4298- the Vietnam Helicopter 

Crewmembers Memorial Act 

(Q) What is the justification for seeking a memorial within Arlington National 

Cemetery to honor helicopter pilots and crewmembers killed in the Vietnam War? 

(A) No memorial exists that recognizes the common valor of the helicopter pilots and 

crewmembers of all military branches who gave the last full measure of devotion to their 

nation in the Vietnam War. No national monument specifically honors the pilots and 

crewmembers that died in rotary-wing aircraft, despite their signiticant contribution to 

what is commonly described as "The Helicopter War." 

(Q) Why does the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association and NAUS and many other 

veteran organizations, seek the placement of this monument within Arlington 

National Cemetery? 

(A) Arlington National Cemetery is where the nation goes to honor those lost in war. 

Almost 5,000 pilots and crewmembers died during the long span of Vietnam combat 

(1963-1975), and Arlington National Cemetery (ANC) holds approximately 457 pilots 

and crewmembers from all service branches, Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast 

Guard, who perished in the contlict. In addition, recovered Missing in Action (MIA) 

crews lie buried together within the cemetery along with many combat helicopter pilots 

who earned the Medal of Honor and other distinguished awards. ANC is the heart of the 

United States Armed Forces, and remains the most fitting location for this honor to their 

joint service and sacrifice. 

(Q) The Secretary of the Army declined the proposed memorial, but approved the 

placement of a small tree marker instead. Why is this unsatisfactory? 

(A) Existing small tree markers generally honor the specific service of individual military 

units from a specific branch of the military such as a U.S. Army regiment or U.S. Navy 

ship, while others honor those who fought in specific battles. Small tree markers have 

never been used to honor the eommon saeritice of thousands of servicemen, from 

different military branches serving jointly, who gave their lives across the span of 13 

years of combat; honoring this extraordinary sacrifice with a small tree marker would 

diminish the magnitude of their sacrifice and valor. 
47 

(Q) Some feel the limited burial plots remaining within ANC justify restricting 

additional memorials that take away space for graves. Is this a good reason for 

declining the Vietnam Helicopter Pilot and Crewmember Memorial? 

(A) No. Arlington National Cemetery possesses areas that are unsuitable for the 

placement of graves due to soil conditions, tree roots and underground utilities. The 

proposed Vietnam Helicopter Pilot and Crewmember Memorial will require only live 

square feet of ground, and could easily be placed on a spot within the cemetery unsuitable 

for burial. 

(Q) Will taxpayer dollars be used to create and install the Vietnam Helicopter Pilot 

and Crewmember Memorial in Arlington National Cemetery? 

(A) No. The design, production and installation will be fully paid for with private funds 

from the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association and its supporters. 

(Q) Why do this now, some 40 years after the Vietnam War ended? 

(A) Most United States military memorials are established between 20 and 50 years after 

the end of fighting. Surviving Vietnam Veterans are reaching the end of their natural 

lives and want to ensure those deserving of tribute are recognized before their generation 

disappears into history. At this time, during the 501

h Commemoration of the Vietnam 

War, establishing the Vietnam Helicopter Pilot and Crewmember Memorial within 

Arlington National Cemetery is the right thing to do at the right time in history. 

The National Association for Uniformed Services Appreciates the Opportunity to 

Submit a Statement in Support of H.R. 4298 

The National Association for Uniformed Services thanks the Subcommittee on Military 

Personnel for its leadership and its commitment to core issues dealing with military 

personnel issues. And we thank you, Chairman Heck and Ranking Member Davis, for 

holding this hearing and allowing NAUS a chance to submit a statement in support of 

H.R. 4298 the Vietnam Helicopter Crewmembers Memorial Act. 

### 
48 

5535 Hempstead Way • Springfield, VA 22151-4094 

Tel: 703-750-1342 • Toll Free: 1-800-842-3451 

Email: naus@naus.org • Website: www.naus.org 

The Servicemember's Voice in Government 

Established in 1968 

Richard A. "Rick" Jones 

Legislative Director 

National Association for Uniformed Services (NAUS) 

Richard A. "Rick" Jones joined NAJJS as Legislative Director on Sept. 1, 2005. As legisla1ive 

director, Rick is the primary individual responsible for promoting the N A US legislative goals 

before the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs and the Congress of the United 

States. 

Rick presently serves as co-director of the National Military and Veterans Alliance (NlVlYA), 

a non-partisan policy and advocacy organization composed of military associations and 

veterans organizations. Rick also serves as co-chairman of the Alliance for Military and 

Overseas Y oting Rights (AMOVR), an alliance formed to ensure that our military men and 

women are afforded their right to vote and to ensure their votes are counted. 

Rick is an Anny veteran who served as a medical specialist during the Vietnam \Var era. His 

assignments included duty at Brooke General Hospital in San Antonio, Texas; Fitzsimons 

General Hospital in Denver, Colorado; and Moncrief Community Tiospital in Columbia, 

South Carolina. 

Rick completed undergraduate work at Brown University prior to his Army draft and, 

following military service, used his G.l. Bill benefits to earn a Master Degree in Public 

Administration from East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina. 

Prior to assuming his current position, Rick served as National Legislative Director for 

AMVETS, a major veterans service organization. He also worked nearly twenty years as a 

legislative staff aide in the offices of Senator Paul Coverdell, Senator Lauch Faircloth, and 

Senator John P. East. He also worked in the House of Representatives as a subcommittee 

staff director for Representative Larry J. T!opkins and Representative Bob Stump. 

In working for Rep. Stump on the House Committee on Y eterans' Affairs, Rick served as 

minority staff director for the subcommittee on housing and memorial affairs and two years 

as majority professional staff on funding issues related to veterans' affairs budget and 

appropriations. 

National Association for Uniformed Services 

5535 Hempstead Way, Springfield, Virginia 22151 

Telephone: (703) 750-1342 ext. 1008 

Fax: (703) 354-4380 

Email: rjones@naus.org 
WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING 

THE HEARING 

SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 

(51) 

RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY DR. HECK 

Mr. HALLINAN. Of the 624 acres at Arlington National Cemetery (ANC), 534 acres 

are dedicated to above ground or in ground burials. Approximately 90 acres are not 

currently suitable for burials due to current infrastructure (Roads, Sidewalks and 

facilities) and existing cultural resources (Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, Memorial 

and Tanner Amphitheaters, Section 29 Arlington Woods forest and numerous other 

points of interest). In accordance with Public Law 112–154 codified in Title 38 USC 

Sec 2409, the Secretary of the Army is to set aside, when available, suitable areas 

at ANC to honor the memory of members of the Armed Forces and veterans— 

(1) who are missing in action; 

(2) whose remains have not been recovered or identified; 

(3) whose remains were buried at sea, whether by the member’s or veteran’s own 

choice or otherwise; 

(4) whose remains were donated to science; or 

(5) whose remains were cremated and whose ashes were scattered without interment of any portion of the ashes. [See page 8.] 

Mr. HALLINAN. As of September 8, 2016 there are 2,857 individuals commemorated on memorial markers (government upright white headstones with ‘‘in memory 

of’’ on the stone). [See page 8.] 

Mr. HALLINAN. As of September 8, 2016 there are 451 group markers located in 

Arlington National Cemetery. These mark graves containing co-mingled human remains of service members killed in multiple death incidents in action with the 

enemy. [See page 9.] 

Æ