U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

23–482 PDF 2017

EXAMINING THE FUTURE OF RECREATION.GOV 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

THE INTERIOR 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT 

AND GOVERNMENT REFORM 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

MAY 24, 2016 

Serial No. 114–113 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

http://www.house.gov/reform 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM 

JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman 

JOHN L. MICA, Florida 

MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio 

JOHN J. DUNCAN, JR., Tennessee 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio 

TIM WALBERG, Michigan 

JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan 

PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona 

SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee 

TREY GOWDY, South Carolina 

BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas 

CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming 

THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

MICK MULVANEY, South Carolina 

KEN BUCK, Colorado 

MARK WALKER, North Carolina 

ROD BLUM, Iowa 

JODY B. HICE, Georgia 

STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma 

EARL L. ‘‘BUDDY’’ CARTER, Georgia 

GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin 

WILL HURD, Texas 

GARY J. PALMER, Alabama 

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland, Ranking 

Minority Member 

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York 

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of 

Columbia 

WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri 

STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts 

JIM COOPER, Tennessee 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania 

TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan 

TED LIEU, California 

BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey 

STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands 

MARK DeSAULNIER, California 

BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania 

PETER WELCH, Vermont 

MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico 

JENNIFER HEMINGWAY, Staff Director 

DAVID RAPALLO, Minority Staff Director 

WILLIAM MCGRATH, Interior Subcommittee Staff Director 

CHRIS ESPARZA, Counsel 

SHARON CASEY, Deputy Chief Clerk 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE INTERIOR

CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming, Chairman 

PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona 

BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas 

KEN BUCK, Colorado, Vice Chair 

STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma 

GARY J. PALMER, Alabama 

BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan, Ranking 

Minority Member 

MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania 

STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on May 24, 2016 ............................................................................... 1 

WITNESSES 

Mr. Joe Meade, Director, Recreation, Heritage, and Volunteer Resources, 

U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Accompanied by Rick 

Delappe, Program Manager, Recreation One-Stop, National Park Service, 

U.S. Department of the Interior 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 3 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 6 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER

KING-6430 with DISTILLER
(1) 

EXAMINING THE FUTURE OF 

RECREATION.GOV 

Tuesday, May 24, 2016 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERIOR, COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM, Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:54 p.m., in Room 

2247, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Cynthia Lummis 

[chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Lummis, Gosar, Buck, and Lawrence. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. The Subcommittee on the Interior will come to 

order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess 

at any time. 

Good afternoon. Thanks for your patience with our voting schedule today, which always seems to crop up when we have a hearing 

scheduled. Today, we are going to be examining the future of 

Recreation.gov. 

Now, launched under President George W. Bush, the Recreation 

Web portal was created to make it easier for citizens and agencies 

to access recreational services, whether under the National Park 

Service, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, or one of nearly a dozen 

other Federal agencies. 

Today, Recreation.gov serves as the booking portal for reservations at 60,000 facilities and activities on Federal lands, including 

national parks and forests, wildlife refuges, waterways, and recreation areas. This portal is a key hub for park visitors and concessionaires. 

For the past 10 years, Recreation.gov has maintained exclusive 

control over real-time reservation data. Real-time reservation data 

is the information that a park, cabin, or tour, for example, has been 

booked by someone. This information is important when there are 

multiple booking sites so that no one facility or activity is booked 

by two different people. 

Multiple reservation sites need real-time reservation data-sharing, but the only place to reserve a facility or activity has been the 

Recreation.gov Web site. This exclusive model would appear to be 

contrary to recent business trends that promote open data-sharing 

and competition. The competition for customers between these sites 

benefits the consumer. 

This is the final year of the 10-year Web site management contract for Recreation.gov. In 2014, the Forest Service released the 

first draft of a request for proposals for the Recreation.gov management contract. After numerous comments, congressional letters, 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
2 

and even some media coverage, the government extended the comment period twice and even called for an industry day to bring together stakeholders for a productive discussion. 

Initial concerns with the request for proposals revolved around 

open data requirements and third-party commission language that 

could eventually make its way into the vendor contract. Though 

President Obama’s administration has placed a priority on open 

data, some felt the language in the early drafts of the RFP were 

not strong enough to encourage the open sharing of data that could 

promote a healthy competition among reservation sites. 

The government was responsive to these concerns and did make 

some changes to these areas in successive drafts and the final solicitation, but some ambiguity remained. The government awarded 

the new Recreation.gov contract on Friday, May 13, to Booz Allen 

Hamilton. 

I have some questions, and it relates to my time in State government, and I will tell you my story. Wyoming entered into a contract 

with a big-name company to create a statewide platform to conduct 

a wide variety of transactions from government permits to driver’s 

license renewals to event reservations. The State chose a big-name 

company, but they did not have a lot of experience in the field of 

creating these platforms. And later, the contract was canceled, 

there was a big dispute, we had no platform. It was a mess. And 

so I hope we are not traveling down this same road here. 

Today, we hope to examine the future of Recreation.gov. In the 

context of the new vendor contract just awarded, we anticipate an 

open discussion about some of the challenges the Web site has 

faced over the past 10 years and how the government plans on addressing these issues moving forward. We also plan to explore some 

of the ways the Forest Service and Park Service will use this updated site to get more visits to our Federal lands. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. With that, I would like to thank the witnesses in 

advance for their testimony. 

I now recognize Mrs. Lawrence, ranking member of the Subcommittee on the Interior, for her opening statement. 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. Madam Chairman, thank you for holding this 

meeting. 

Today, we will discuss the future of Recreation.gov, a trip-planning reservation and information-sharing platform. The national 

park and recreational opportunity Web site is managed by the Department of Agriculture Forest Service on behalf of 12 participating 

agencies. 

Today’s discussion will not be possible to have without acknowledging the information technology initiatives and goals of the current administration. In 2014, in an effort to develop a customer-focused government through smarter information technology, President Obama created the U.S. Digital Services, which in turn produces what is known as the U.S. Digital Services Playbook. 

This document, included as an attachment to the newly awarded 

Recreation.gov contract, is comprised of 13 key strategies or plays 

drawn from successful practices in the public and private sectors 

that would help government build effective online services. All of 

the administration plays are part of the new Recreation.gov contract and are intended to promote an understanding of what people 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
3 

need using data to drive business decisions and to ensure that the 

technologies powering the Web site are using modern secure technologies. Chief among those plays is the concept of making sure 

Recreation.gov sources of data follows the goal of making the data 

widely available to the public and private industry. 

Even beyond the Digital Services Playbook, the administration 

has a guiding principle that government agencies must make more 

government-generated data open to the public and to private industry. According to the administration, providing easy access to government data delivers more efficient and effective services to the 

public and contributes to the economic growth by fueling entrepreneurship and innovation. 

There are numerous examples of private companies that now use 

open government data in the products and services they provide, 

including Web sites like AccuWeather, Foursquare, and Zillow. 

As the U.S. Forest Service prepares for the future of Recreation.gov, it is clear that the agency recognizes the benefits that 

the administration’s Digital Services Playbook and open-data policies could bring to the Nation’s centralized information source for 

recreational opportunities on Federal lands. I remain hopeful that 

the next contractor will embrace these principles in the future of 

Recreation.gov and will offer opportunities for all stakeholders. 

I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, and I yield back 

the balance of my time. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. I thank the ranking member. 

I will hold the record open for 5 legislative days for any member 

who would like to submit a written statement. 

I will now recognize our panel of witnesses. I am pleased to welcome Mr. Joe Meade, director of Recreation, Heritage, and Volunteer Resources of the National Forest System; and Mr. Rick 

DeLappe, program manager of Recreation One-Stop at the U.S. 

Forest Service. We welcome you both. 

Pursuant to committee rules, witnesses will be sworn in before 

they testify. Now, I understand, Mr. Meade, that you will be providing testimony and Mr. DeLappe responding to questions —— 

Mr. MEADE. Yes, ma’am. 

Mrs. LUMMIS.—am I correct? Very good. 

If you would please rise and raise your right hand. 

[Witnesses sworn.] 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Thank you. Please be seated. Let the record reflect 

that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. 

Now, in order to allow time for discussion, please limit your oral 

testimony to 5 minutes, and your entire statement will be made 

part of the record. 

Mr. Meade, welcome. You are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF JOE MEADE 

Mr. MEADE. Thank you. Chairman Lummis, Ranking Member 

Lawrence, and members of the committee, it truly is an honor to 

be able to be here today to be able to highlight for you our Recreation.gov Recreation One-Stop programs, and I also I want to personally thank you for your context that you have set up in your 

opening remarks this morning—or this afternoon as well. 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
4 

I’m Joe Meade. As you noted, I’m the director for Recreation, 

Heritage, and Volunteer Resources with the U.S. Forest Service 

and help to oversee the contractual process for a number of agencies with our Recreation.gov contract that’s now underway. 

As was noted, joining me shortly also will be Rick DeLappe, our 

program manager for Recreation One-Stop and as we move into our 

question-and-answer dialogue. 

As you know, our nation Federal—our nation’s Federal lands and 

waters holds a rich legacy for our nation, a rich heritage. From our 

iconic national parks that enculturate and curate our nation’s history, our culture, and our most precious landscapes to our system 

of wildlife refuges that ensure that migratory water fowl have the 

ability to stretch across the continent and conserve their habitat to 

the landscape conservation units of the Bureau of Land Management that help steward these special places to our nation’s waterways under the stewardship of the Army Corps of Engineers, 

which, by the way, is our largest provider of outdoor recreation in 

the Nation, and of course the multiple-use and community benefits 

of our standing nation’s national forests, a rich legacy that we 

have. 

And in fact, in 2012, outdoor recreation has paid more than 1 billion visits to our nation’s public lands and waters, a very important 

statistic, spending more than $51 billion and stimulating local 

economies and supporting almost 900,000 jobs, a very important 

contribution to the Nation’s GDP. 

Alongside our service providers, our partners, and our volunteers, this is an array of outdoor recreation opportunities that’s unparalleled across the world. It is truly a precious resource, a precious asset that we have here in our nation. 

Think about downhill skiing or whitewater rafting to lodging or 

staying in a historic fire lookout, a visit to one of our iconic national parks, one of our unique wildlife refuges, or maybe it is just 

a hike on one of our nation’s historic or scenic trails or a stroll 

down the mall, you know, these are all opportunities and benefits 

that we have afforded to us in this rich legacy. 

For the Forest Service, today, outdoor experiences are the most 

important contribution we bring to our nation’s GDP generating 

over $13 billion and generating more than 200,000 jobs. Today, 

that’s actually tripled that of some of our traditional multiple uses 

as an agency. So we’re an agency in transformation as we lean into 

and value how it is that our citizens connect with us for those outdoor experiences that they look to connect through as they enjoy 

their nation’s national forests. 

Today, our top leadership is placing a high priority around this 

connection to our communities. We’re modernizing our recreation 

special-uses program so that rather than regulating use, we’re enhancing and inviting visitor services through our service providers. 

We’re focusing on enhancing our connection with communities 

through stewardship and volunteers, leveraging individuals’ ability 

to share in that stewardship of their public lands. 

We’re focused on being responsive to the changing demographics 

in our nation to help be relevant to this next generation, and we’re 

focused on really advancing technological contributions and connection in this digital age that we live. 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
5 

So as I conclude, let me highlight the future in front of us in today’s topic for the hearing today, and that’s with Recreation OneStop. Imagine with me if you will digging your toes in the sand as 

the sunset is going down from your beach, say, on the Oregon 

coast. Now, imagine while you’re enjoying this incredible moment 

in time, this experience, you’re able to pick up your smart device 

and be able to check on your Recreation.gov account, upload your 

favorite pictures of the day, those fun family shots that you were 

able to take. Rate your experience at the campground. Was it a 

good day, was it a—what was it like? Or maybe even make that 

reservation for the next recreation event or activity that you want 

to go do. 

This is truly a new era for Recreation.gov, and that’s really 

where today we’re positioning this technology to continue to serve 

a great asset to the customers and citizens we serve. 

So a contemporary platform, that, is designed to focus on the 

user experience first, fostering a delightful and intuitive experience, not a bureaucratic one, designed to be agile, working closely 

with our developers to be sure that it’s designed to be responsive 

in the moment in time and fostering a dynamic platform that continues to change into the future as we see changes in technology, 

service, and interest, designed as open data, again, taking advantage of modern—the activity today such as our application programming interfaces to ensure that we can connect with thirdparty interests and really leverage the bout of energy and interest 

that we have in outdoor activity. 

Designed with an important geo-facial features as well, which 

those of us would go out without our GPS loaded in our car to be 

able to have that digital connection in our trip planning, and again, 

designed with very important, robust security components within 

it. Over the past decade, we’ve enjoyed a very secure platform and 

we really continue to have that level of security designed into the 

system into the future. 

So with that, I’d like to again welcome Rick DeLappe, our program manager, to assist me in answering any questions that you 

may have, as is appropriate. Thank you. 

[Prepared statement of Mr. Meade follows:] 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
6 


KING-6430 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 1 here 23482.001

STATEMENTS OF 

JOE MEADE, DIRECTOR OF RECREATION, HERITAGE, AND VOLUNTEER 

RESOURCES, NATIONAL FOREST SYSTEM 

AND 

RICK DELAPPE, PROGRAM MANAGER, RECREATION ONE STOP 

FOREST SERVICE 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 

BEFORE THE 

INTERIOR SUBCOMMITTEE 

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

REGARDING 

THE FUTURE OF RECREATION.GOV 

May 24,2016 

Chair Lummis and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide 

information the future of Recreation.gov. We are honored to speak before you today on how this 

program supports the mission of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Forest Service (Forest 

Service) and other federal agencies in delivering outstanding outdoor recreation services to the 

American people. We are Joe Meade, Director of Recreation, Heritage, and Volunteer 

Resources, National Forest System and Rick DeLappe, Recreation One Stop Program Manager. 

Now, more than ever, federal agencies must connect with urban, suburban, and rural populations 

and encourage outdoor stewardship and remain relevant in our ever-changing world. We know 

the benefits of outdoor recreational experiences on physical and mental health. We know the 

demand for access to outdoor settings and outdoor recreational experiences are increasing at a 

rapid pace, and we know that federal land and water management agencies, assisted by partners 

and service providers, host the largest and most diverse array of outdoor recreation opportunities 

in the world. 

Outdoor recreation is an essential part of our American culture. Thousands of rural and urban 

communities benefit from recreation on federal lands. When Americans play outside during 

outings or overnight trips, their spending directly supports outdoor-oriented industries such as 

outfitting and guiding, lodging, and concessions, many of which are small businesses, and many 

more. In 2012, outdoor recreationists made more than 938 million visits to federal lands and 

waterways, spending $51 billion and supporting 880,000 jobs. Many of these jobs are located in 

rural communities and are associated with numerous outdoor industries and small businesses. 

For the Forest Service, outdoor recreational experiences are the single largest contribution to the 
7 


KING-6430 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 2 here 23482.002

gross domestic product and local economies, generating over 13 billion dollars in revenue and 

supporting approximately 205,000 jobs. 

The federal lands and waters reservation system, Recreation One Stop, and the interagency 

website Recreation.gov are critical components of providing these services. 

Background on Recreation One Stop 

Recreation One Stop (RIS) is an interagency partnership among federal agencies to provide 

reservation services, sharable data, and recreation trip-planning tools for federal lands and waters 

across the United States. RlS was created as one ofthe Quicksilver e-government initiatives 

under the Bush administration in 2002 with the primary goal of reducing redundancy by 

combining the online reservation services of the Forest Service, the U.S. Army Corps of 

Engineers, and the National Park Service. 

At that time, the program was focused primarily on providing advanced reservations through the 

Recreation.gov website for developed campgrounds and tickets for a few locations such as the 

Washington Monument and Mammoth Cave. Rl S also provided a rudimentary data-sharing 

tool, which allowed third parties access to a single bulk download of all recreation data. The 

software design, provided by contracted services, was simple and easily supported these 

activities. Since its inception in 2002, the program has changed and grown significantly. 

Today, millions of visitors use Recreation.gov to plan, reserve, and share their federal land 

recreational experiences in national parks, national forests, national wildlife refuges, and national 

waterways. In 2015, there were more than 22.3 million sessions, 12 million visitors, and 220 

million page views to Recreation.gov, which represents a 31 percent increase in visitation over 

2014. Currently, Recreation.gov hosts more than 3,200 individual facilities, with more than 

90,000 campsites, 12 ticketed tours or events, and 26 high-demand locations accessed by permit 

or lottery. 

The Recreation.gov contract provides for comprehensive web services, database management, 

and customer support. R IS program manager works closely with the contractor to deliver the 

entire suite of services. Recreation.gov hosts a range of sites that allow visitors to reserve a 

campsite, secure a whitewater rafting permit, schedule a ranger-led cave tour, or reserve their 

spot on a boat tour. They can use the Build a Trip tool to map a route for their next trip and then 

see dozens of federal recreation options along the way. If they need help, call center agents offer 

assistance over the telephone, through live chat, or by e-mail. 

Contractor-furnished infrastructure for Recreation.gov also includes: 

• a complex security system for protecting personally identifiable information and 

processing payment card industry-certified financial transactions; 

• customer support across six time zones; 

• training and business reporting; 

• web-based field management tools and internal support for over 500 field locations; 

• maintenance of a complex and dynamic data platform; 

2 
8 


KING-6430 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 3 here 23482.003

• on-the-ground implementation support for dozens of new facilities each year; and 

• marketing and communications to promote outdoor recreation. 

The agencies that use Rl S reservation services through Recreation.gov are the Forest Service, 

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Bureau of 

Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, and the National Archives and Records 

Administration. Collectively, the 5-year average annual return for these agencies in recreation 

fees collected through Recreation.gov is $90.5 million, as shown in the table below. These fees 

are used to provide visitor services and improve the visitor experience at recreation sites. 

Agency Reservation Fees Returned to 

Agencies Annually 

(5-year average, in $) 

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 67,444 

National Park Service 17,567,369 

Bureau of Land Management 331,992 

Bureau of Reclamation 496,590 

Forest Service 33,582,946 

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers 38,451,628* 

*The fees collected by the U.S. Army Corps ofEngmeers are returned to the General Treasury, 

not the agency. 

Recreation.gov and the Recreation Information Database (RIDB) 

Recreation.gov is a trip planning and reservation service portal. Information about specific 

facilities and activities that can be reserved in advance, including information about the site such 

as driveway length, electric hookup information, and other amenities such as fire pits and picnic 

tables, is collected directly on the website and input into the reservation database by the 

contractor. . 

In contrast, RfDB was created in the late 1990s as a stand-alone database capable of sharing data 

with anyone who wanted access to federal recreation data for any purpose. RIDB does not 

contain any personally identifiable information. The information in RIDB is populated both 

manually and through the use of automated web services by the participating agencies. RIDB 

contains over 120,000 recreation area records for 12 different government agencies. Each 

agency assigns data stewards to ensure its data are updated and correct. The type of data 

available in RIDB includes facility type, detailed descriptions, mapping coordinates, address, 

and, depending on the type of site, details such as maximum occupancy, event details, and permit 

type. We also require strict security measures to ensure the data are protected and maintain their 

integrity. 

With award of a 10-year contract to Reserve America (now ACTIVE Network) in 2006, 

oversight of both programs, Recreation.gov and RfDB, was consolidated under the Rl S 

Program. To provide more comprehensive recreation information to those making reservations, 

the information from RIDB was also included in Recreation.gov. 

3 
9 


KING-6430 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 4 here 23482.004

As data demands increased, the RIDB data-sharing tools needed to be updated. In response, Rl S 

upgraded its data-sharing capability to the industry standard and launched a Representational 

State Transfer application programming interface (RESTful API) in March 2015, providing the 

latest recreation data through machine-readable formats. To date, RIDB has received over 1.4 

million API requests since that technology was made available. 

Lessons Learned and Future Plans 

The efforts- both successes and challenges to build and implement RIS have provided 

valuable lessons that shape the way forward. What began as an online camping reservation tool 

has grown into a valued modern and comprehensive travel planning and recreation reservation 

service. Recreation.gov now provides services for a variety of recreational activities, all of 

which require different business rules and software solutions. The current platform was designed 

in the late 1990s as a campground reservation service. Over the years, it has adapted to 

accommodate new facility types and expanded as demand has increased. As we look to a new 

era of services, we recognize the need to continually innovate as technology evolves and to be 

nimble enough to meet public expectations for online services. 

Rl S has adopted the principles of the U.S. Digital Service's Playbook to keep pace with 

technology and to meet visitor expectations and needs. R IS consulted with U.S. Digital Services 

representatives in developing the R IS Request for Proposals, which helped Rl S stay true to 

tenets described in the Playbook. As stated by the U.S. Digital Services: "We created a 

playbook of 13 key 'plays' drawn from successful practices from the private sector and 

government that, if followed together, will help government build effective digital services." 

4 
10 


KING-6430 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 5 here 23482.005

Rather than prescribing solutions that are likely to change over time, we have required outcomes 

-which generally remain the same throughout the life of a contract- to provide the public 

with an easy-to-use and enjoyable experience. We let the vendor choose the appropriate 

technology to succeed. As technology changes and public expectations evolve, so does the 

solution. 

End-user feedback from all types of stakeholders will drive design, navigation, and system 

functionality. Agile development processes will allow the government to work side-by-side with 

those writing the code so that solutions can be tested and deployed continuously and large-scale 

failures can be avoided. Our default position will be to ensure recreation data are as open and 

available as possible for many different types of uses and can fuel innovation and 

entrepreneurship. 

The RlS reservation service contract was awarded with a Contract Line Item Number (CLIN) 

commission/payment structure, where the contractor earns a payment based on each reservation 

transaction. The payment schedule varies based on what is reserved and which sales channel is 

used. Industry standards establish variation in pricing based on customer convenience. For 

example, call center CLINs are typically more expensive than web-based CLINs. 

The Forest Service financial management office sets aside funds collected for each reservation to 

pay a monthly invoice for the Contract Line Item CL!Ns. 

Several agencies have built the cost of the reservation contract CLIN into their nightly fees for 

camping and ticket prices. The Forest Service and BLM cover these costs by charging a nonrefundable reservation fee separate from the actual site fee. 

Our experience over the past I 0 years has reinforced the importance of listening to our customers 

and continually innovating and updating. At the heart of the new system is an absolute priority 

on the user experience. Every design element, every aspect of functionality, all of the 

navigational features, the various workflows, are designed to create a simple, intuitive 

experience. One of the keys to creating a user-centric experience is to include users in the design 

and development of the solution. From the family planner to the campground manager to the 

leader of a land management agency, we will rely on these user perspectives to create a system 

that works well at every level. 

On day one of the new contract, we will embark on an agile development process. Private sector 

best practices focus on continuous improvement, flexibility, user input and quality product 

delivery. This approach will produce an infrastructure that can more easily adapt to emerging 

technology and a service platform that meets the needs of visitors today and in the future. 

Interaction with Third-Party Sites 

In today' s online world, there are many sources that provide information about recreation 

destinations and activities. Data-sharing allows real-time data from one site to display on many 

other relevant sites. Through the use of API, we are able to share data with different providers so 

5 
11 


KING-6430 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 6 here 23482.006

that the public can interact with federal recreation information from a variety of interfaces. We 

will seek opportunities to provide sharing services that expand the reach of our recreation 

programs and encourage more people to get outdoors. Entrepreneurs will have access to data 

that allow them to create new tools to reach users in a dynamic, mobile-friendly environment. 

Concessions 

There are 71 concessionaires operating I, I 07 campgrounds with reservable inventory in 

Recreation.gov. In 2015, $26.3 million was distributed to these concessionaires for the customer 

services they provide. 

Federal concessionaires have access to a full range of data associated with the campgrounds they 

operate and the guests who make reservations for these campgrounds. This information is 

included in daily arrival reports identifying reservation holder information. This information is 

not shared outside of the program or with other concessionaires and is releasable to the extent 

allowed by law. 

Providing the public with a full menu of travel planning choices is a primary goal. We recognize 

that everyone does not want to camp and that finding lodging information is critical to planning a 

trip. We also recognize that there are many activities on federal lands that would not be possible 

for an average visitor without the services of authorized outfitters and guides. We will be 

incorporating these services into the design and navigation planning so that visitors will be able 

to find all kinds of federally managed and concession-supported activities and facilities in the 

future. 

Data Security 

Protecting the privacy of our visitor's information is one of our top priorities. The R IS 

contractor must comply with all requirements of the Federal Information Security Management 

Act, the Federal Risk and Authorization Management Program (FedRAMP), Federal Information 

Processing Standards (FIPS) 199, and the Federal Information System Controls Audit Manual, as 

applicable, throughout the contract term. Because the system is owned by the contractor, 

authorization to operate from the federal government is also required under FIPS 199. Because 

the data system is cloud-based, the system and hosting environment must comply with all 

FedRAMP Moderate Requirements. All credit card processing must comply with the highest 

level of payment card industry data security standards. 

In addition, the contractor and all subcontractors must report any breach or potential breach of 

data and information, including network or asset breaches and loss of control, compromise, 

unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized acquisition, and unauthorized access of data, to the 

Contracting Officer and the Contracting Officer's Representative within 30 minutes of becoming 

aware of the breach or potential breach, regardless of the time or day of the week. 

Conclusion 

6 
12 


KING-6430 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 7 here 23482.007

The Forest Service is focusing on strengthening connections with the public through outdoor 

recreational experiences. The agency has initiated a national effort to modernize its recreation 

concession program, enhance community service and volunteer programs, increase the diversity 

of visitors to the National Forest System, and implement technological innovations to provide 

even better public service. Rl S is a key initiative for all federal land and water management 

agencies to provide the latest information and inspiration to a new generation of visitors 

wherever they are, whether they are on their smart phones and tablets, in their home, or on the 

road. 

We would like to thank this subcommittee for its support ofRI S, which is critical to the missions 

of the Forest Service and other federal land and water management agencies in providing 

outdoor recreational experiences to the American public. We would be happy to answer any 

questions you have at the appropriate time. 

7 
13 

Mrs. LUMMIS. I thank the gentleman for his testimony. And we 

will now begin questions. 

And Mrs. Lawrence, who is the ranking member of this committee, has another commitment and so I am going to recognize her 

first for 5 minutes. And, Mrs. Lawrence, please direct your questions to Mr. DeLappe. 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. Mr. DeLappe, do you see outside expertise from 

places like the U.S. Digital Services when we talk about jumping 

to Play 7, title ‘‘Bring in Experienced Teams,’’ do you seek outside 

expertise? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Thank you for the question. Absolutely we do seek 

outside expertise. We worked with the U.S. Digital Service in 

crafting language for the RFP to help us to find requirements that 

would deliver modern technology. We also—it ties in with Play 1 

as well, that we seek out end-user guidance so that you’re—we’re 

building a system that meets not only our needs but first and foremost meets the needs of the public and the visitors that are using 

is. 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. The new Recreation.gov contract states, ‘‘Whenever applicable, the contractor shall embrace the principles and 

practices defined in the U.S. Digital Services Playbook.’’ And it continues with all 13 priorities of the U.S. Digital Services Playbook 

applied to this program. Several principles directly reflect areas of 

specific emphasis on the R1S support services procurement. So my 

question to you is Play 1 is titled ‘‘Understand What People Need.’’ 

So, Mr. DeLappe, when the contract was being developed did you 

seek public and private industry input to understand the needs? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Yes, absolutely we did. We—when we began thinking about creating an RFP for a follow-on contract, we started 

thinking about it back in 2011, and we began with 10 different 

touch points with the public, including industry days and private 

sessions with various vendors, and responding to their inquiries. So 

for 3 years we’ve worked —— 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. Three years? 

Mr. DELAPPE.—the public to identify what they were looking for 

and also worked with the vending community to look for new technologies and new approaches to help deliver that new experience. 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. Is this the first Forest Service’s contract to incorporate the principles from the Digital Services Playbook? 

Mr. DELAPPE. To the best of knowledge, yes, it is. 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. Okay. Well, thank you. I’m going to—I did 

imagine myself being in a national park and dipping my toes in the 

water. That was a good place to go today. I just want you to know 

that the technology piece is critical as we want to bring more people into our national parks and to our amazing reserves in this 

country and wildlife. And so incorporating this and as we continue 

to ensure all the principles of good procurement and contracting, 

this is absolutely going in the right direction. I thank you. 

Mr. DELAPPE. Thank you. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. The gentlelady yields back and —— 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. I yield back. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. And I thank you very much —— 

Mrs. LAWRENCE. Thank you. 

Mrs. LUMMIS.—for your remarks. 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
14 

I now recognize myself for as much time as I wish to consume. 

How is that? 

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. As I mentioned in my 

opening statement, when I was in State government we had tried 

to design a highly tailored product to provide customer service to 

all kinds of Wyoming users to save them from standing in lines in 

public when it would be just as easy for them to do things at home 

on their time schedule. And I assume that is true as well with preparing for a trip to our great national treasures for you. 

What we did wrong when we did this is we chose not to look at 

what off-the-shelf products were available. We went with something that was specifically designed and tailored towards what we 

wanted. We, through an RFP process, retained a very large company with a good reputation but not necessarily a reputation to 

build these unique portals. It was a disaster. And when I look at 

all of the travel sites out there that are extremely successful that 

are allowing people to do comparison shopping, availability shopping, and have the kind of data available that makes multiple Web 

sites even provide alternatives, gee, if this campsite is booked, 

there is a campsite, you know, just 60 miles away that you could 

get a reservation at. You know, so you get all this information. 

They are marvelous and they are already made. 

So my question is, is this product that Booz Hamilton has been 

retained to produce a custom product with custom software or is 

it going to borrow from already-proven software out there? 

Mr. MEADE. Would you like to —— 

Mr. DELAPPE. Sure. So in our request for proposals—well, let me 

step back. As we began researching the new technology that we 

would need to bring Recreation.gov into the future, we recognized 

that there was a lot of new technology and a lot of companies that 

perhaps did not provide the full-scale service all—unto themselves. 

And we wanted to broaden the competition and be exposed to more 

opportunities to embrace those different types of technology. We 

encourage teaming between different vendors so they can bring 

best-of-breed together to provide that service. 

This solution that we have awarded to is very much custom-built 

from Booz Allen Hamilton. It—but it—it’s a little bit different than 

what we have seen in the past. So what they’ve proposed is kind 

of an API, application programming interface-centric platform that 

allows—really allows them and us to add and change technology 

along the way because one of the key goals of this is to be able to 

keep up with technology throughout the life of a contract. As we 

know, technology changes so quickly that the solution of today may 

not be—meet the expectations of people a year or 2 years from now. 

So want a very flexible system, and what they have provided us 

does appear to provide that to the government. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Is this a 10-year contract? 

Mr. DELAPPE. It’s a 5-year base with five 1-year award terms 

that they can earn through, you know, quality performance 

throughout the years. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Specialized software frequently calls for specialized 

in-house maintenance and augmentation. Is that going to be—at a 

very high price. Is that also part of this? 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
15 

Mr. DELAPPE. If I understand the question correctly that we 

would anticipate developing the program continuously throughout 

the life of the contract, including providing maintenance and adding new functionality, configuring existing functionality so that we 

can provide the broadest range of services to the agencies. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. What sort of off-the-shelf products or existing technologies were part of the RFP process that you chose against because they didn’t have features that you were looking for? You 

don’t have to name companies —— 

Mr. DELAPPE. Yes. 

Mrs. LUMMIS.—that didn’t get the bid, but I am just curious 

about were there sort of off-the-shelf products that could be easily 

adapted but they didn’t have applications that you want? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Okay. First—I guess I should note that—so the 

award was—we announced the award on May 13, and we did receive a protest in GAO yesterday. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Okay. 

Mr. DELAPPE. And if I could just refer with my contracting officer representative to make sure I don’t cross that line. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. I understand. I have been in your shoes. 

Mr. DELAPPE. Okay. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. I was State treasurer and bid out all kinds of investment management services, and I had the same thing happen 

to me so I know where you are coming from. 

Mr. DELAPPE. Okay. 

Mr. MEADE. And if I might, as Rick is concurring—conferring for 

some insight and advice, I’d like to also kind of offer a frame from 

our program leadership perspective. As I tried to note in some of 

my opening remarks and as you’ll see in our written testimony, 

we’ve been able to very much rely on innovation and insight in 

technology and application, so a very active expectation of open 

data so that we’re not in a closed environment. This is open data. 

It’s not going to be proprietary. It’s open data that ensures that a 

variety of third parties can engage with the platform through the 

application programming interfaces. It’ll be an agile development 

process that’s required of the contractor so that we’re ensuring that 

we’re keeping pace with modern technology and changing interests 

by our recreationists. 

The bundle of that ensures that we’re requiring the service provider at the price bid to really step up and provide the extensive 

set of contemporary items outlined in the request for proposal that 

they have submitted their proposal towards. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Mr. DeLappe, further comment? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Well, it’s—I—it would be improper for me right 

now to discuss any specific types of software or that were proposed 

in the proprietary nature in the RFP. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Okay. Let me then switch gears a little bit. 

Mr. DELAPPE. Okay. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Will there be any type of gap between when Active 

Network’s contract ends and when the Booz Allen provided service 

comes online? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Well, you bring up a situation which is admittedly 

risky in any situation to transition data from one system to another. I will tell you that the bulk of static inventory information 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
16 

that is currently available for public sharing, as proposed by Booz 

Allen Hamilton, has already been imported into their system, doing 

testing, and they were able to demonstrate how some of that would 

work in their new system. That’s a part of the data. 

Of course, the riskier part, the more challenging part is mapping 

data that’s more in a dynamic state. Perhaps you made a reservation in the old system but you won’t be arriving until the new system is in place. Booz Allen Hamilton has proposed very comprehensive data mapping plan to move that data and to first test that 

with sample data. 

So we do anticipate some kind of gap. In the past, it’s been as 

much as a couple of weeks. We don’t anticipate that at this time, 

but again, it is a very—it’s a—it’s the most important step because 

we have people’s vacations in our hands. We want to make sure 

that we get it right. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. And when will that gap, if it occurs, when will it 

occur? During the height of the summer tourist season or is it 

going to occur in a less-busy season? 

Mr. DELAPPE. So our plan, which because we’re in a protest right 

now and knowing that GAO has until August 31st to adjudicate 

that, that puts our transition plan kind of on hold. In our contract 

we have allowed up to 15 months for development, testing, and deployment of a new solution. So originally, 15 months from now 

would be right at the right time for us, the best time. Recognizing, 

you know, that there are something that we won’t have control 

over, we will be evaluating the progress of the solution and the 

testing of it to make sure it’s ready to go and the timing. You are 

right. It’s not—it won’t be desirable to try to do this during the 

height of reservations season, but we will evaluate that when we 

get closer. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Okay. Now, switching gears again, what data from 

the recreation Web portal is available to the public? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Okay. So currently—and this evolved over time— 

in the late 1990s the agencies got together to aggregate data into 

what was then called Recreation.gov. It wasn’t the reservation 

service; it was standalone, and it shared data through just an XML 

download, which is basically take everything and parse it out yourself once you get it. And that existed on its own until Recreation 

One-Stop program came into effect in about 2002. And that’s when 

we pulled the National Park Service reservation system together 

with the Army Corps and Forest Service reservation system and 

the information that was stored in Recreation.gov. And together, 

we called them Recreation.gov because the name made the most 

sense. 

Again, that data remained available for open-data sharing 

through an XML download until 2014 when we launched an API 

on that to provide a more modern approach to data-sharing and 

different machine-readable languages that independent innovators 

and developers use nowadays to pull that data and create tools, 

apps, games, you name it. 

So right now, it’s the static data, it’s all the information data 

about a park, about a forest, you know, description, photos, directions, et cetera. As we move forward, we look to take that to the 

next step so that we can provide those third parties tools that they 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
17 

can help their visitors, people who are already on their sites, find 

that information without having to transfer around. So real-time 

availability is important. If you’re looking for a campsite, you want 

to say, hey, it is open right now; I might want to book that. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. So you have information that is tremendously valuable to visitors to our public lands. It is also valuable to gateway 

communities to those public lands. It is also valuable to people who 

are helping book the remainder of a travel experience to and from 

the public land experience. And the industry has been trending towards standardization and interoperability. So it makes things like 

Kayak and other comparison tools possible. So when someone 

leaves that campsite, where are they going to stay en route to their 

next destination off public lands and giving them real-time opportunities to make those kinds of comparisons. Are those going to be 

possible without a standardized interoperable product or will you 

have a standardized interoperable product that can interface with 

third-party providers? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Sure. I think—there’s a number of kind of tiers of 

data-sharing you can do, I think. The static data is very simply, 

particularly because it doesn’t change frequently enough to worry 

about overuse, which might, you know, be detrimental to performance. So if you have a third party that is calling your API frequently, you’ll either need to increase your server capacity at an 

additional expense and monitor that and provide additional support but—so tier 1 I look at as the static data, not usually a problem. In the middle you have real-time availability, which we have 

required access to, and that’s not a problem. 

When you get to purchasing or conducting a transaction, say, on 

Kayak or on a different Web site, it kind of increases the technical 

requirements of that API to process that. Part of that is because, 

you know, in the Federal Government the—there are a lot of business rules that apply to staying at a campground. It may be, you 

know, the RV length or the length of stay that you can do, and 

those need to be incorporated into the API so that you can enforce 

those while they’re making the reservation there. 

Furthermore, the transaction processing and the financial processing has to be built in a way that the revenue or the funds from 

that recreation fees are deposited not into the account at Orbitz or 

Kayak but into the U.S. Treasury. That’s one of our requirements. 

If they’re due a commission or they earn an affiliate fee, then it 

would come back in the other direction. We never—we don’t allow 

third parties to hang onto government money and pay us later. We 

do it the other way around. Does that make sense? 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Yes. 

Mr. DELAPPE. So that part requires, you know, an additional 

level of development on the API to provide that. And that’s very 

possible, but as we do that, then we look for ways of managing that 

and setting up agreements with those parties so that everyone is 

on the same page. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Is the decision not to allow third parties to hold 

that money statutory or is that just a rule, an in-house rule? 

Mr. DELAPPE. To the best of my knowledge it is a Treasury requirement. I cannot—I’m not sure if it’s statutory or—but we could 

get back to you with an answer to that. 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
18 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Okay. I am curious about that —— 

Mr. DELAPPE. Okay. 

Mrs. LUMMIS.—because it may be that there are impediments to 

easing the access of third parties who have wonderful travel products online by easing up some Federal regulations that maybe were 

created for another purpose that maybe don’t fit recreation access 

very well. And we want, as recreation is accessed online, to make 

it as easy as possible for people to use public lands. So I would love 

to have that information. 

Mr. DELAPPE. Okay. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. The comment period initially after the initial draft 

of the RFP was released in October of 2014, the comment period 

was extended a couple times before the solicitation was put out in 

the summer of 2014. Why was the release delayed then? 

Mr. DELAPPE. In October 2014 we had released a draft final, 

which caught the attention of folks that I will call the open-data 

community, third-party entrepreneurs, and they recognized that 

the language that was in there—well, they recognized two things, 

that the language in there did not totally support where they 

thought we should be going. The second thing is is that we—it’s a 

performance-based contract, and one thing we try to avoid is prescribing specific solutions. We would prefer to have industry give 

us the approach, we give the outcomes and they find a way to get 

there. 

And very specifically, what they wanted us to require was an 

API. And I—we were in that—I don’t know, my contract dilemma 

there was do I prescribe this knowing that this is the solution or 

do I—or do we continue with our outcome-based requirements so 

that if APIs change in the next 10 years to something else, we 

haven’t locked ourselves in. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Yes. 

Mr. DELAPPE. So that was the hard part to—you know, to come 

up with that. And it didn’t satisfy everybody, but we—you know, 

basically, APIs are the solution, and that is the outcome that we 

got. 

So to continue then, so because of that, we hosted an industry 

day in Golden, Colorado, to hear directly from the third—or the 

open-data community and the vending community and let them 

discuss amongst themselves in a public forum, you know, the pros 

and cons to this. Subsequent to that, we did extend it a couple of 

weeks to allow for more comments to come in and released a final 

draft late—early the next year. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Local and State travel and tourism officials tell us 

they have had difficulty working with Recreation.gov, and that is 

a big part of Wyoming’s economy. It just became our second-largest 

economic sector passing agriculture, which is my industry. Outfitters and guides and private businesses also benefit from visitors to 

our Federal lands. What does Recreation.gov need to do to improve 

collaboration with local gateway communities and tourism agencies? 

And I commend to your attention the tourism agency in my State 

of Wyoming, it is excellent. And of course, you will find others that 

are as well and use public lands, national parks, forests, recreation 

areas as a draw to their States for also off-public-land recreational 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
19 

opportunities. So your Web site and the success of your Web site 

and the ability of our States and gateway communities to interface 

with your product is really important to us. Hence, today’s hearing. 

So what can I tell my State travel agency? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Sure. Thank you for that question. I have actually 

worked with your State agency in the past a few times to share 

videos. Your State tourism office has a wealth of some good videos 

that I was able to use a few years ago for Recreation.gov. I was 

not aware that they were experiencing a challenge coordinating 

with us. However, what I think we’re looking for going forward 

here is how can we ensure that Recreation.gov is able to connect 

with State tourism agencies and share valuable information to support the recreation economies of the States. 

The premise of our—one of the premises of our contract is to do 

just that, is to share data so that entities, very specifically as a 

State tourism agency, can ingest our information or the portions of 

it that are important to them by filtering out, you know, only the 

Wyoming information in this case and sharing that on your own 

Web site, pulling in that real-time availability if that’s the—if that 

is somewhere they would like to go to show that this campground 

in the Medicine Bow forest actually is reservable and has sites 

available, to pull that additional information that shows that if this 

campground is full there may be another one down the road and 

suggest an alternative. 

So that is exactly where we would like to go to provide that robust travel planning experience not just on Recreation.gov but on 

any site where the people are already visiting and surfing. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. If a State or a local destination has a marketing 

organization and they are doing a promotional effort for maybe a 

gateway community’s arts festival that is just outside of National 

Park Service properties, how can Recreation.gov help leverage that 

additional visitor activity that is being promoted locally? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Sure. I understand. The one challenge I think that 

we face is when it comes to promoting commercial entities, particularly if they’re—if we are in a position to promote one commercial 

entity over another one. What you’re describing does not sound like 

that. It sounds more like a community or a municipal event. And 

really the challenge we have is just leveraging resources and making the connections to ensure that we are—we have the content 

and it’s—you know, and it works for the local community and on 

Recreation.gov. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. And so will they have links or ways to plus into 

your product so people can have access to their product? Let’s say 

it is a local arts festival in Jackson, Wyoming? 

Mr. DELAPPE. Sure. So currently, what we’ve done, which is 

somewhat limited, but if you go on Recreation.gov and you’re looking up, let’s say, a permit for Grant Teton National Park. On that 

page you should be able to find direct links to the Wyoming State 

tourism office, Wyoming’s State DOT for road information, et 

cetera. And so in a similar fashion and probably in a much more 

elegant fashion in the future we would love to be able to provide 

that to the level that is pertinent to that location. And I think what 

you’re suggesting sounds perfectly fine and actually a valuable tool 

for the customer. 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
20 

Mrs. LUMMIS. And I don’t want to imply that my State is the 

State that had expressed some concern about interfacing, but apparently within the staff here at the committee there have been 

some expressions of improvements that could be made and if we 

might be able to match those people up with you. 

Mr. DELAPPE. Sure. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Before I finish a hearing, I like to give our witnesses the opportunity to actually make closing statements to say 

anything that you wish you would have been asked that you didn’t 

get to tell us or to offer any closing comments before I close the 

hearing. 

Mr. Meade, you are recognized if you have any closing comments 

for today. 

Mr. MEADE. Thank you, Chairman. I very much would like to be 

able to do that. I’d just like to underscore some of your observations, and that is how important our outdoor experiences are to the 

fabric of our nation’s economy as you see in—there in Wyoming, as 

we see across the Nation how and in what way our citizens can engage in healthful outdoor activities and how that can drive economy satisfaction and many other values, many other benefits in society. 

Our goal and interest in a very open-data environment is to use 

the best of modern technology, to dig your toes in the sand, to do 

your trip planning, to be the millennial that can do what you want 

to do on that smart device in your pocket or to not if you just want 

to get on a pack trip and enjoy a good old-fashioned, you know, 

pack trip up until the high mountains of the back country. 

So what we’re looking for here is a dynamic platform, again, that 

will be designed in a very agile approach working back and forth 

and enhancing it over time. We’re looking to engage users so that 

they actively are shaping what the tool will be like, and part of 

that user community is the very tourism folks you’ve highlighted. 

We want to infuse that energy and find pathways for these tools 

to be as maximally beneficial to our tourism domestic organizations 

and interests to a local scale. 

As Rick noted, we need to be careful that we are ethical about 

that, and that is a driving motive for us and will not be, you know, 

something that will be put at risk, but we can and do—and will do 

much to help engage that community, State, and tourism kind of 

values as we move forward in the product. So thank you. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Thank you, Mr. Meade. 

Mr. DeLappe, you are recognized for any closing comments. 

Mr. DELAPPE. Thank you very much for having me here today. 

Joe covered much of what I would like to say so I will leave that 

at that. 

I would like to say that, you know, Recreation.gov is probably 

one of the best programs in the government. We get to work with 

fun, and we love—the people that work on our staff are outdoors 

folks, are passionate about this job. We want to make it right, and 

the way we want to do that is we want to engage with the end 

users, the States, the local communities to make sure that we’re 

building a product that suits their needs, not ours. And so—and I 

think we’re on the right path to do that. 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER
21 

The requirements in this contract, I think, provide us a lot of 

latitude and power really to harness a lot of energy from technology and from, you know, enthusiastic parties out there that 

have been following this and really want to build a great product. 

So I again thank you for your time. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. Well, I thank you both, gentlemen, for being here 

today and testifying. As we have heard many times in this committee and others, the decline in visitorship by people under the 

age of 15 to our public lands gives us all concern. This is a population of healthy, energetic people that should be out there enjoying 

the great outdoors. 

And we know that culture has changed and that culture in this 

country revolves a lot around handheld devices and access to the 

internet. So our ability to provide a product to them that they can 

access on their handheld device gives them the tool and the power 

to plan their next outdoor recreational opportunity, which will return those young people to our public lands so they can learn, just 

as their parents and grandparents did, about the great outdoor experiences this wonderful country has to offer, and in doing so will 

imbue in them the stewardship that we all hope comes along with 

feeling that these treasured places are ours to take care of and to 

hold in high regard. 

So the work you are doing is of tremendous consequence, and we 

hope to help you make that product, Recreation.gov, the most userfriendly and best opportunity that young people and their families, 

who they coach on how to use those handheld devices, have at their 

disposal to make that possible. 

With that, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record testimony that was submitted by the Outdoor Industry Association. 

Mrs. LUMMIS. And with my gratitude to you, Mr. DeLappe and 

Mr. Meade, as well as to Skittles and to the others in our audience, 

this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:45 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

Æ 


KING-6430 with DISTILLER