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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4 

### Public Meeting on 5


### Clean Power Plan 6 

### Proposed Federal Plan and Model Rules 7 

### Day I 8 

### 9:31 a.m. to 8 p.m. 9 

### Thursday, November 12, 2015 10

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### November 12-13, 2015 12

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### William S. Moorhead Federal Building 14 

### Room 1310 15 

### 1000 Liberty Avenue 16 

### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222 17

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### EPA Panel for Morning and Afternoon Sessions: 1 

### MIKE KOERBER, Hearing Officer; and 2

### Associate Director for Policy, 3

### Office of Air and Radiation, 4

### Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 5


### MEG VICTOR,Office of Air and Radiation, 6

### Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 7 

### BRIAN KEAVENY, Office of Air and Radiation, 8

### Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 9 

### MICHAEL GORDON, EPA Regional Office, 10

### Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 11 

### DAVID TALLY, EPA Regional Office, 12

### Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 13

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### EPA Panel for Evening Session: 15

### DAVID CAMPBELL, Chair, EPA 16



### EMILY LINN 17


### ROBERT STOLTZFUS 18

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### EDWARD PERRY, Aquatic Biologist; and 3

### Pennsylvania Outreach Coordinator, 4

### National Wildlife Federation 15 5 

### JOHN NAGLE, Professor Emeritus (retired), 6

### Carnegie Mellon University 18 7 

### BOB COOK, 8

### People United for Sustainable Housing 25 9 

### BRENDA BARRON, 10

### Organizing Director of Keystone Progress 11

### and National People's Action 30 12 

### KATHLEEN KREBS, 13

### Alliance of Nurses for a Healthy Environment 14

### and Allegheny County Clean Air Now. 36 15 

### JAMIN BOGI, Group Against Smog and Pollution 40 16 

### MICHAEL BETT, Member of Ben Avon Council 45 17 

### CARMEN ALEXANDER, Resident of Pittsburgh 48 18 

### SISTER DONNA ZWIGART, Sister of St. Francis 19

### of the Neumann Communities 53 20


### GREG KOCHANSKI 57 21 

### DOUGLAS "G STYLE" MYERS, Feed Da Streetz Tour 63 224

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### LUCY VELEZ, Resident of Buffalo, New York 71 3 

### SUSAN KOEHLER, Resident of Pittsburgh 79 4 

### VICKI DOBBINS, Michigan United and 5

### National People's Actions 82 6 

### PATRICE TOMCIK, Field Organizer, 7

### Moms Clean Air Force 84 8 

### ANNIE REGAN, 9

### Western Pennsylvania Outreach Coordinator, 10


### PennFuture 92 11 

### MARGARET PARSONS, 12

### Healthy Air Campaign Coordinator, 13

### American Lung Association in Pennsylvania 96 14 

### DANIEL DOUBET, Leader, Keystone Progress 102 15 

### KEVIN STEWART, Director, Environmental Health 16

### Mid-Atlantic American Lung Association 105 17

### ALISON STEELE, Manager, 18

### Community Programs and Advocacy, 19

### Conservation Consultants, Inc. 110 20 

### ELIZABETH KERR, Communications and Policy, 21

### Business Forward 115 225

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### RAY ROBERTS 123 3 

### PERRY RECKER, PA Congressional District 18, 4

### and Citizens Climate Lobby 128 5 

### PHILIP ANGERT, Sierra Club 128 6 

### TARYN JONES, Michigan United and 7

### National People's Action 141 8 

### DIANE MORALES, Michigan United 149 9 

### TALIA O'BRIAN, Pennsylvania Sierra Club 153 10 

### JORDON ESTEVAO, National People's Action 155 11 

### DR. JOHN ATHERTON 159 12


### ELOWYN CORBY 163 13 

### MAREN COOKE, Resident of Pittsburgh 167 14 

### PATRICIA DeMARCO, Resident of Pittsburgh 175 15 

### NANCY ROBINSON, Resident of Pittsburgh 180 16 

### MINDY JO ROSSO COMANGANE, PUSH Buffalo 184 17 

### BOB CRAVEN, Concerned Citizen 188 18 

### STEPHEN RICCARDI, 19

### Concerned Citizen, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 192 20 

### BARBARA GROVER, Chair, 21

### Allegheny Group of the Sierra Club 195 226

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### SHARON PILLAR, President, Solar Unified 3

### Network of Western Pennsylvania 200 4 

### JOY BERGEY, Partnership for Policy Integrity 208 5 

### CHRIS ROGERS, 6

### Concerned Citizen from Philadelphia 214 7 

### KATIE BARTOLOTTA, on behalf of David Imgrund 219 8 

### JACOB SWENSON-LENGYEL, 9

### National People's Action 222 10 

### BEN ISHIBASHI, National People's Action 227 11 

### JACOB WARD 229 12

### ARELI LOPEZ, National People's Action 235 13 

### CLAUS MAKOWKA, Concerned Citizen 238 14 

### EVA RESNICK-DAY, Concerned Citizen 241 15 

### MIMI DARRAGH, Parish Social Minister, 16

### St. Sylvester Church, Pittsburgh 246 17 

### BRENDA SMITH, Executive Director, 18

### Nine Mile Run Watershed Association 250 19 

### LYNDSEY O'DAY, United Electrical, Radio, and 20

### Machine Workers of America 254 21

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### DAVID MASUR, Executive Director, 3

### PennEnvironment 260 4 

### RUSSELL CAMPBELL, Environmental Study Student 271 5 

### NAOMI SWERDLOW 274 6 

### SHANE McLAUGHLIN, Student, 7

### University of Pittsburgh 275 8

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1

### MR. KOERBER: Good morning, and thank you 2 

### for your patience. I know we're a little bit 3 

### late starting this morning. I appreciate 4 

### everybody being here and attending today's public 5 

### hearing. 6

### My name is Mike Koerber. I'm with EPA's 7 

### Headquarters Air Office in North Carolina, and 8 

### I'll be chairing this session. 9

### Joining me on the panel is Brian Keaveny, 10 

### who is also with EPA's Headquarters Air Office in 11 

### North Carolina, and Michael Gordon, who is with 12 

### EPA's Regional Air Office in Philadelphia. 13

### We're here today to listen to your 14 

### comments on EPA's proposed federal plan and model 15 

### rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 16 

### existing power plants. 17

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 18 

### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 19 

### or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 20 

### U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing 21 

### carbon pollution from power plants is an 229

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### essential step in lessening the impacts of 1 

### climate change and providing a more certain 2 

### future for our environment, our health, and 3 

### future generations. 4 

### On October 23rd, the EPA published in the 5 

### Federal Register its proposed federal plan to 6 

### implement emission guidelines for power plants 7 

### under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The 8 

### proposed federal plan will achieve the same level 9 

### of emissions performance as required of state 10 

### plans under the Clean Power Plan. Federal plans 11 

### will be finalized only for those states with 12 

### affected power plants that the EPA determines 13 

### have failed to submit an approvable state plan by 14 

### the relevant deadlines set in the emission 15 

### guidelines. 16 

### In those states where a federal plan may 17 

### be required, this plan will implement the same 18 

### emissions guidelines for affected power plants 19 

### outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It will not 20 

### require additional control requirements or impose 21 

### additional costs. 2210

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### Even where a federal plan is put in place 1 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 2 

### able to submit a plan which, if approved, will 3 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 4 

### federal plan. States may take delegation of 5 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 6 

### order to become the primary implementers or 7 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 8 

### the implementation of a portion of a federal 9 

### plan. States operating under a federal plan may 10 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 11 

### to facilitate compliance or lower cost to the 12 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 13 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 14 

### for those states that are developing their own 15 

### state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 16 

### rate-based and mass-spaced model trading rules in 17 

### Summer 2016. A state program that adheres to the 18 

### model trading rule provisions, when final, would 19 

### be presumptively approvable.There are 20 

### stand-alone portions of the model trading rules, 21 

### such as the evaluation, measurement, and 2211

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### verification procedures for emission rate credits 1 

### that would be approvable even if a state adopted 2 

### an approach that differs in other respects from 3


### the model rule. 4 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 5 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 6 

### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 7 

### affected power plants located in Indian Country. 8 

### Carbon dioxide emission performance rates for 9 

### these facilities were finalized in the Clean 10 

### Power Plan. It also contains information on how 11 

### the EPA will reach out to communities throughout 12 

### the comment period and an overview of the actions 13 

### EPA is taking to ensure vulnerable communities 14 

### are not being disproportionately impacted by this 15 

### rulemaking. 16 

### If you'd like more details on the 17 

### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 18 

### the registration desk. 19 

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 20 

### through a few housekeeping items. First, please 21 

### be sure that you have checked in at the 2212

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### registration desk, even if you are not planning 1 

### to speak today, and if you signed up to speak 2 

### online or by phone but haven't told us that 3 

### you're here, please step out to the registration 4 

### desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 5 

### arrived. 6 

### Second, please put your phones on 7 

### vibrate, as to not disturb the speakers. 8 

### Finally, and maybe most importantly, 9 

### please be respectful of all of our speakers 10 

### today. You're going to hear from a lot of 11 

### people. Let's make sure that they get their time 12 

### and we're all very respectful of what they have 13 

### to say. 14 

### All right. Here's how today's hearing 15 

### will work. I will call up speakers in pairs. 16 

### When your name is called, please come to the 17 

### speakers table at the front of the room, the 18 

### table over here. When I call on you to speak, 19 

### please state and spell your name. Your comments 20 

### will be transcribed and included in the record of 21 

### comments on the proposed rule. 2213

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### Each speaker will have 5 minutes. We 1 

### have a timer light to help you know how much time 2 

### you have left to speak. The timer light is right 3 

### over here on the table. When the light turns 4 

### from green to yellow, that means you have 1 5 

### minute remaining. When it turns red, that means 6 

### you're at 5 minutes and it's time to wrap it up. 7 

### When you are finished speaking, please 8 

### remain at the table until the person next to you 9 

### has completed their testimony. I will then call 10 

### up the next pair of speakers and so on. 11 

### Today is your time. We are here to 12 

### listen to you, but the panel members may ask 13 

### questions to help clarify your comments. If 14 

### you've brought a written copy of your testimony, 15 

### please give it to the staff at the registration 16 

### desk before you leave, and if you have an extra 17 

### copy for the court reporter, it would be 18 

### appreciated. 19 

### We will put any written comments 20 

### submitted today in the official docket for the 21 

### proposed rule. 2214

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### We also have comment cards available at 1 

### the registration desk if you'd like to submit 2 

### additional written comments today. If you want 3 

### to comment in writing later, stop by the table 4 

### near the registration desk and pick up a copy of 5 

### the instructions for submitting written comments. 6 

### Comments must be received by January 21st. Let 7 

### me assure you that EPA gives just as much 8 

### consideration to comments we receive in writing 9 

### as we do comments we receive at public hearings 10 

### like this. So, if you have more comments that 11 

### you'd like to provide the EPA, please submit them 12 

### by the comment period deadline, January 21st. 13 

### Your comments are greatly appreciated and will be 14 

### reviewed. 15 

### Finally, if you have any questions during 16 

### the day, please see the staff at the registration 17 

### desk downstairs, and someone will assist you. 18 

### Thanks again for being here and for 19 

### taking time to share your comments on our 20 

### proposed rule. 21 

### Now let's get started. I'd like to call 2215

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### up the first two speakers: Ed Perry and John 1 

### Nagle. 2 

### MR. PERRY: Edward Perry, P, as in Peter, 3 

### e-r-r-y. I'm an aquatic biologist working with 4 

### the National Wildlife Federation as their 5 

### Pennsylvania Outreach Coordinator for their 6 

### Climate Change Campaign, and I'm speaking today 7 

### for many of my fellow hunters, anglers, and 8 

### outdoor enthusiasts who view climate change as 9 

### the greatest threat to our natural resources that 10


### we have ever faced. 11 

### I'm a lifelong fisherman and hunter, and 12 

### I've had the privilege of fishing, camping, and 13 

### hiking all over this great country of ours. And 14 

### I can tell you that myself and many of my fellow 15 

### outdoor enthusiasts are already seeing the 16 

### adverse effects to our landscape from climate 17 

### change. 18 

### I want to give you just a couple of 19 

### examples of what we're seeing and just right here 20 

### in Pennsylvania. Already warmer winters have 21 

### allowed populations of this noxious insect pest 2216

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### called the woolly adelgid to explode and are 1 

### attacking our state tree, the hemlock. 2 

### Scientists forecast that unless we reduce carbon 3 

### pollution, the adelgid is likely to eliminate the 4 

### hemlock, our state tree, from the entire Eastern 5 

### United States within the next 85 years, and it's 6 

### already happening. 7 

### Now, some people might say, "Well, who 8 

### cares? It's just a tree." Well, hemlocks are 9 

### what conservation biologists call a keystone 10 

### species, and that is a species at which many 11 

### other life forms depend on. 12 

### For example, our state fish, the brook 13 

### trout, is so closely allied with hemlocks that at 14 

### one time they were called hemlock trout. 15 

### Hemlocks provide important thermal cover for 16 

### these fish during the heat of the summer when 17 

### it's important that these cold water streams are 18 

### shaded, and this is just one of the species that 19 

### hemlocks are important for. 20 

### So, as the woolly adelgid takes out our 21 

### state tree, which it's in the process of doing, 2217

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### our state fish is going to go out with it. 1 

### Fisheries scientists and EPA's own latest report 2 

### on this forecasts that by the year 2100, trout 3 

### and salmon will be gone from the Eastern United 4


### States. 5 

### Where once colder winters confined the 6 

### adelgid mostly to Virginia, they're now spread 7 

### all the way up into Maine. Global warming isn't 8 

### just blindsiding native species with habitat 9 

### changes. It's giving a leg up to many of these 10 

### harmful and invasive species that are affecting 11 

### wildlife all across our country. In essence, 12 

### climate change puts a thumb on the competitive 13 

### scale, helping not the species that are the most 14 

### beneficial or most economically valuable, but 15 

### it's the ones that can take the heat. 16 

### What I'm trying to convey to you today is 17 

### that there is real urgency to take action. We 18 

### literally have no time to lose. We're already 19 

### seeing adverse effects. 20 

### So your Clean Power Plan, which I and 21 

### many of my fellow sportsmen strongly support, is 2218

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### a step in that direction, the right direction. 1 

### The plan is going to help us speed our say to a 2 

### future in which we invest more in 3 

### wildlife-friendly sources of clean energy and 4 

### less in fuels that pollute our air and water and 5 

### harm our global climate. 6 

### So I want to commend EPA for developing a 7 

### plan that not only allows the states great 8 

### flexibility to reduce carbon pollution, but 9 

### you're also providing a federal backstop for 10 

### those states that won't be as aggressive in 11 

### tackling climate change, as I'm sure Pennsylvania 12 

### will be. 13 

### Thank you for the opportunity to comment 14 

### today. 15 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 16 

### Mr. Nagle? 17 

### MR. NAGLE: John Nagle, spelled J-o-h-n, 18 

### N-a-g-l-e. I am a professor emeritus, now 19 

### retired at Carnegie Mellon University in the 20 

### fields of physics and biology. 21 

### Years ago, I taught a course entitled 2219

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### Energy and Environmental Issues. At that time, 1 

### it was still possible to make a case that manmade 2 

### global warming might not be occurring, so my 3 

### course encouraged debate among the students, but 4 

### that was a lopsided debate even then. And, of 5 

### course, EPA's Clean Power Plan recognizes today's 6 

### lopsided scientific consensus. 7 

### I thank the EPA for giving us the 8 

### opportunity to comment on its Clean Power Plan 9 

### for greenhouse gas reduction from EGUs, 10 

### energy-generating units, electricity-generating 11 

### units, and I thank this panel for patiently 12 

### listening during another 2-day marathon. 13 

### The EPA had a hearing last year -- I'm 14 

### not sure if it was this room; we had a different 15 

### arrangement of chairs, anyway -- in Pittsburgh, 16 

### when the plan was still being proposed. Then, 17 

### EPA was soliciting comments on a number of the 18 

### options that it was considering. 19 

### I responded with preferences to a baker's 20 

### dozen of those options, and there's a docket for 21


### that. 2220

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### I appreciate all of the hard work that 1 

### the EPA has had to do to incorporate everyone's 2 

### comments into a finalized plan, and I appreciate 3 

### the opportunity to comment again. 4 

### When I entered my comments a year ago, I 5 

### expressed concern that the proposed plan did not 6 

### go far enough, and I was very concerned that it 7 

### would be watered down even more by climate change 8 

### deniers and vested interests. That apparently 9 

### did not happen. 10 

### The Union of Concerned Scientists, of 11 

### which I am a member, entered 111 pages of 12 

### comments to strengthen the proposed plan, and I 13 

### am very pleased to have read just recently that 14 

### the UCS says that the EPA incorporated most of 15 

### their recommendations in the final EPA plan. 16 

### Even though I agree with the Union of Concerned 17 

### Scientists that the plan still doesn't go far 18 

### enough, fast enough, it's an important catalyst 19 

### for a climate action. 20 

### Already, coal-fired EGUs are being shut 21 

### down, and fossil fuel stocks are being divested. 2221

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### Incidentally, I divested shares of Exxon 1 

### that I had inherited and I hadn't paid much 2 

### attention to, and I'm very happy to say that I 3 

### did it a year ago before the price started to 4 

### drop. 5 

### [Laughter.] 6 

### MR. NAGLE: Now, while coal is being 7 

### replaced by natural gas-fired EGUs, methane is 8 

### only 40 percent better, and that's just not good 9 

### enough. And I'm concerned that this 40 percent 10 

### reduction from natural gas does not include 11 

### leaked methane from fracking. Only a half 12 

### percent leakage completely offsets the gain over 13 

### coal, but that's the subject of a different EPA 14 

### hearing, which I didn't get a chance to go to. 15 

### One thing that surprised me about the 16 

### final plan is that it does not include the 17 

### previously proposed Building Block No. 4, which 18 

### was based on energy conservation. Proactively 19 

### improving building codes seems an obvious way to 20 

### reduce GHG emissions, not to mention turning out 21 

### the lights. 2222

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### A few years ago, Carnegie Mellon bestowed 1 

### a prestigious $50,000 Dickson on Jared Diamond 2 

### for his book entitled "Collapse." That book 3 

### serves as a warning to us today. His book 4 

### describes several civilizations that collapsed, 5 

### sometimes by its people not being able to 6 

### recognize an existential threat. Fortunately, 7 

### science recognizes the threat of global warming. 8 

### However, many of those civilizations collapsed 9 

### because they didn't have the will to deal with a 10 

### threat, even when it was staring them in the 11 

### face. That's the challenge we face today. 12 

### It's important to recognize that it took 13 

### hundreds of years for those historic collapses to 14 

### play out, just like the impending irreversible 15 

### collapse of the West Antarctic ice cap. The EPA, 16 

### with its plan, well appreciates the long-term 17 

### nature of the existential climate threat. The 18 

### long half-life of the carbon dioxide we dump into 19 

### the atmosphere today makes it a ticking time bomb 20 

### that can't be undone. Actions must be taken to 21 

### limit greenhouse gases before it becomes too late 2223

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### to prevent the most disastrous consequences. 1 

### Now, if I were cynical, I might selfishly 2 

### resist paying a little more for electricity -- I 3 

### think the estimate was 7 percent more for 4 

### electricity -- and not even consider all the 5 

### benefits of not burning -- the healthful benefits 6 

### of not burning fossil fuel. 7 

### So I'm sorry I ran over time here. I 8


### would be -- 9 

### MR. KOERBER: If you're close, feel free 10 

### to wrap it up. Feel free to finish. 11 

### MR. NAGLE: I'm trying to wrap it up. 12 

### Yeah. I've got another half minute here. 13 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. 14 

### MR. NAGLE: I would be leaving a terrible 15 

### legacy if I chose the selfish path of not dealing 16 

### with this, and my punchline is that selfish 17 

### cynics who ignore the issue really deserve to -- 18 

### when the thing plays out and they're all long 19 

### dead, they deserve to go to a hell with demons 20 

### crying out, "What were you thinking, and what 21 

### were you doing?" 2224

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### So even though the plan doesn't go far 1 

### enough, fast enough, it will catalyze more 2 

### rational planning that will help avert the sort 3 

### of collapse described in Diamond's book. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 6 

### Any of the panel members have clarifying 7 

### questions? 8 

### [No audible response.] 9 

### MR. KOERBER: I think we're good. Thank 10 

### you both, gentlemen. 11 

### I'd like to call Bob Cook and Brenda 12


### Barron. 13 

### And I do realize it's a little warm in 14 

### here, so we have asked that they try to turn on 15 

### some air conditioning. If they could just open a 16 

### window, it would help, maybe, if we had one. 17 

### MR. COOK: Do you want my proper name or 18 

### just Bob Cook is fine? 19 

### MR. KOERBER: Sure. That's good. 20 

### MR. COOK: Are we ready to start? 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Whenever you are, Mr. Cook. 2225

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### MR. COOK: My name is Bob Cook, capital 1 

### B-o-b, capital C-o-o-k, kind of like the chef. 2 

### Hello, everybody. I'm from Buffalo, New York, 3 

### and I work with People United for Sustainable 4 

### Housing, PUSH. Go PUSH. 5 

### We are a strong organization that has 6 

### worked hard for the past 10 years on housing 7 

### issues for the West Side of Buffalo, and we have 8 

### accomplished a great deal in raising our 9 

### community's awareness of how utility companies 10 

### and the state of New York have worked together to 11 

### maintain the status quo, allowing these corporate 12 

### giants and Wall Street to drain wealth out of 13 

### low- and moderate-income communities, communities 14 

### of color, and that's us, us here. And that ain't 15 

### right. 16 

### Can I get an "That ain't right"? 17 

### ATTENDEES: That ain't right. 18 

### MR. COOK: That ain't right. Thank you 19 

### very much. 20 

### MR. KOERBER: If the audience could 21 

### refrain themselves, thank you. 2226

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### MR. COOK: It may be hard to do. 1 

### MR. KOERBER: I appreciate your passion, 2


### but -- 3 

### MR. COOK: We at PUSH have been working 4 

### hard to change that dynamic and let our utilities 5 

### know we have a seat at the table, and they cannot 6 

### deny us. And that's why we're here today. 7 

### I moved to Buffalo in 1980, and I have 8 

### lived there on the West Side since then. In the 9 

### early '90s, my now ex-wife and I purchased the 10 

### worst house on a good street in a good 11 

### neighborhood. We gutted the interior and 12 

### discovered antiquated infrastructure and no 13 

### insulation, which explained the high heating 14 

### bills from previous years in this 15 

### 2,000-square-foot single-family home. 16 

### We rebuilt it. We got the financing 17 

### because, basically, we were living in a good 18 

### neighborhood, and we still had reasonable 19 

### salaries that we could pay off our mortgage with 20 

### or our loan with. And this cut the heating -- we 21 

### made sure that we installed a good infrastructure 2227

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### and a good weatherizing shell around the house, 1 

### and this cut the heating bill in half. And I 2 

### mention this because 14 years later, circumstance 3 

### found me divorced, out of work, and living in an 4 

### upstairs apartment that was uninsulated, and it 5 

### cost me more to heat that than I was paying for 6 

### rent. Argh! 7 

### That's passion again. I'm sorry. 8 

### My gas was turned off, and that winter, I 9 

### could only stay warm by huddling in a blanket, 10 

### sitting in front of an electric space heater, and 11 

### that ain't right. 12 

### When push came calling, I was on board, 13 

### first, as a community volunteer and a leader, and 14 

### then with a job. I've learned a great deal 15 

### working with PUSH. I learned about conservation 16 

### incentive programs that don't have enough funding 17 

### towards weatherization. We did something to 18 

### change that. 19


### I have learned that the Governor of New 20 

### York and the Public Service Commission are 21 

### working hand in hand with the utility companies 2228

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### to control what happens with renewable energy 1 

### resources and maintaining corporate control of 2 

### those resources, and one of the things that we 3 

### want to do is try to bring more community control 4 

### to these resources, so that the wealth in our 5 

### neighborhoods is not drained off further, so that 6 

### we can start to build wealth in our neighborhoods 7


### ourselves. 8 

### I've learned that there are pools of 9 

### money out there to develop new energy incentives, 10 

### but only 5 percent of that money is going towards 11 

### projects involving renewable resources, and that 12 

### ain't right. If we are just playing games, it 13 

### doesn't matter what kind of investment there is. 14 

### But we're serious. We're serious. It 15 

### should be over 50 percent if we're really serious 16 

### about transforming our energy landscape and being 17 

### true to the effort to reign in the fossil fuel 18 

### culture we are now embedded in. 19


### And then there's all the hubbub about 20 

### lost jobs. If the fossil fuel industry is 21 

### corralled, oh, so many jobs have been lost. If 2229

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### we replace it with renewable, all of that is 1 

### bunk. The news is not being broadcast in this 2 

### capitalist nation that the changeover from fossil 3 

### to renewable not only absorbs these similar jobs, 4 

### but creates more jobs, and that's true in Canada, 5 

### and it can be true here. 6 

### The oil industry doesn't want us to find 7 

### this out. Gee, I wonder why. That ain't right. 8 

### To finish, let me mention tipping points. 9 

### Scientists keep warning us about how close we are 10 

### to the tipping point for runaway warming. Well, 11 

### there's another tipping point that policymakers 12 

### should be worrying about. How soon will it be 13 

### before enough people in our communities are 14 

### pissed off enough to revolt and take matters into 15 

### our own hands, take utilities back under 16 

### municipal control, and cut Wall Street out of the 17 

### equation? 18 

### If we want to make energy affordable and 19 

### actually honest for the people that are in low20 

### and moderate-income communities, that's what 21 

### should happen, and I'm ready for that revolution. 2230

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### Thank you. 1 

### [Applause.] 2 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 3


### Ms. Barron? 4 

### MS. BARRON: Hi. Thank you. My name is 5 

### Brenda Barron, and I am with Keystone Progress 6 

### and National People's Action, organizing director 7 

### based in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. And I'm here 8 

### today to first support the Clean Power Plan. 9 

### I mean, at its heart, you know, the plan 10 

### is building healthy, sustainable, and thriving 11 

### communities, and the plan does create exciting 12 

### opportunities to spur a green economy as well as 13 

### create quality jobs where they are most needed. 14 

### But to fulfill this promise, we've got to make 15 

### sure our new energy economy is based on truly 16 

### clean and renewable energy, like solar and wind, 17 

### and not some of the more economy and 18 

### environmental damaging resources like nuclear but 19 

### also natural gas. 20 

### And what I'm here today to do is actually 21 

### share a story from a leader of ours in Central 2231

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### Pennsylvania and share his story because his 1 

### community, his family have been impacted by 2 

### negative environmental and economic impacts of 3 

### fracking happening in the middle of our state. 4 

### So I'm going to read his story right now. 5

### "My name is Robert Antanitis II. I have 6 

### been a small business owner and property owner in 7 

### Union County and Columbia County, Pennsylvania, 8 

### since January -- for the past 8 years and was the 9 

### third generation to work in my grandfather's 10 

### sawmill and hardware stores. 11 

### "I graduated from Dickinson College in 12 

### 2001 and worked in the legal and energy fields 13 

### for years in several states and countries before 14 

### returning to Pennsylvania. 15 

### "I support the Clean Power Plan, and I am 16 

### sharing my story to encourage the EPA to strongly 17 

### consider strengthening it to address the real 18 

### concerns of rural and low-income Pennsylvanians. 19 

### "I would like to submit for the record, 20 

### firsthand experience of seeing best-case scenario 21 

### when a pipeline ruptures. Please reference 2232

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### Transco 24-inch pipeline rupture, 9:30 p.m., June 1 

### 11th, 2015, in Unityville, PA. I visited the 2 

### site in northern Columbia County just a few days 3 

### after the pipeline ruptured, which is about 4 4 

### miles from my childhood home. I talked with 5 

### family and friends who live in Benton, just 4 6 

### miles south of the rupture, and heard reports 7 

### that noise and concussion led people to believe 8 

### some type of bomb had gone off, a 747 had 9 

### crashed, or some kind of geological phenomena was 10 

### shaking the Earth, because in their minds, 11 

### because of the frequency of fracking Earthquakes, 12 

### this geologically dormant area, that was likely 13 

### what happened. 14 

### "While the cloud produced was seen on the 15 

### horizon for 10 miles, which in reality it's 16 

### impossible for fireworks in this ridge and valley 17 

### corridor to be seen at all, and the evacuation of 18 

### more than 100 people seemed to be about a mile 19 

### radius and left many families homeless for 1 to 3 20 

### days. 21 

### "Transco and emergency workers informed 2233

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### us that this was the best-case scenario. Here's 1 

### why. If there had been a resident burning 2 

### garbage, a family roasting marshmallows, a wood 3 

### furnace in the basement, or even just static 4 

### electricity in the environment, just enough to 5 

### spark hot, the rupture could have been a 6 

### several-mile-long pressurized fire bomb. As it 7 

### was, our environment had to soak up an immense 8 

### amount of gas because there are no methods to 9 

### capture displayed heavy gas, and our residents, 10 

### animals, and farms had to breathe it in. 11 

### "I agree. It truly was a best-case 12 

### scenario since it was only a 24-inch pipeline. 13 

### Transco is now trying to permit much larger 14 

### pipelines in Pennsylvania, and it did not consume 15 

### the entire northern tier of our country in a 16 

### gas-induced fire bomb that would have decimated 17 

### the land in a much more pressurized explosion and 18 

### even a napalm bomb. 19 

### "The particular pipeline passes many 20 

### childhood homes of my friends and family, but 21 

### thankfully, the place that it ruptured was 2234

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### several hundred yards from the nearest house and 1 

### 4 miles from my hometown. 2 

### "I very sincerely submit this testimony 3 

### to the EPA's records and hope that the 4 

### regulations more strictly impose standards and 5 

### regulations on the gas industry, and that they 6 

### change their guiding philosophy from the 7 

### corporate pragmatism that led to a spider web of 8 

### dangerous pipelines, drill pads, and compressor 9 

### stations, and be enlightened with their pen to 10 

### promote renewables back to a smarter and less 11 

### intrusive grid of utilities. 12 

### "Respectfully, Robert Antanitis II." 13 

### So I share this story because not only do 14 

### -- I know Rob well, but I also know a number of 15 

### families in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, where 16 

### fracking is very huge, and it's not only hurt the 17 

### environment up there, as Rob has put, and the 18 

### fear that people in Central PA live with every 19 

### day of will their children -- you know, will 20 

### there be an explosion? Is their water safe? Is 21 

### their air clean? 2235

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### But rent in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, 1 

### is now for a studio apartment, $1,300. Yeah. 2 

### And that's all because of frackers. They come in 3 

### from Oklahoma and Texas. They take the 4 

### high-paying jobs. Yeah, we get some hotel jobs. 5 

### We get some restaurant jobs. But, as soon as 6 

### they're done taking the oil, that's gone, and 7 

### people are being displaced from their own homes. 8 

### $1,300. I didn't even pay that when I lived in 9 

### D.C. So that's just not right. 10 

### And the other thing that I want to talk 11 

### about is just also what I understand about 12 

### natural gas, which is once it's actually burned 13 

### and emitted into the community, it actually 14 

### creates 100 times more carbon dioxide than -- 15 

### within a 5-year period than normal releases. 16 

### Actually, I am not the scientist. All I 17 

### know is that having my niece and nephew living in 18 

### Pennsylvania and near -- also, we have a pipeline 19 

### about to come through our community in 20 

### Northampton County. I'm personally just really 21 

### afraid for the future and these pipeline 2236

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### explosions and not what happens, and so I do 1 

### encourage the EPA to -- if you are going to 2 

### consider natural gas a clean alternative, which I 3 

### don't, when there are actually solar and wind 4 

### alternatives, please, please, please regulate 5 

### them heavily so our communities do not get 6 

### literally blown up in the process and put the 7 

### people in the plan at first, the Americans who 8 

### need a healthy environment. 9 

### Thank you. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both. 11 

### [Applause.] 12 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Mr. Cook and 13 

### others who traveled here from Buffalo today. We 14 

### appreciate you being with us. Thank you all for 15 

### traveling. 16 

### I'd like to call up our next two 17 

### speakers: Kathleen Krebs and Jamin Bogi. And my 18 

### apologies for any mispronunciations. 19 

### Ms. Krebs, when you're ready. 20 

### MS. KREBS: Hi. Good morning. My name 21 

### is Kathleen Krebs. That's with a K, and last 2237

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### name, K-r-e-b as in boy, s as in Sam. 1 

### And just to share with you, as I was 2 

### talking to the bus stop today, I was hit with the 3 

### awful stench and nausea from the power plant 4 

### company that's one-quarter mile from my home, and 5 

### that's what it is when you live in an 6 

### environmental justice community, when it's a 7 

### low-income area. 8 

### Today, though, I am speaking on behalf of 9 

### the Alliance of Nurses for a Healthy Environment 10 

### and also a grassroots organization, Allegheny 11 

### County Clean Air Now. 12 

### As a nurse, I understand the clear 13 

### connection between preventing the worst impacts 14 

### of climate change and protecting human health. 15 

### None of us want to leave the next generation with 16 

### epidemic levels of asthma, cardiovascular, and 17 

### respiratory illnesses, but that's exactly what 18 

### climate change is causing today, and it will only 19 

### get worse unless we act now to drastically cut 20 

### the pollution that's fueling this problem. No 21 

### pun intended there. 2238

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### This is why I am here today as a nurse 1 

### and a resident of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, to 2 

### voice my strong support for the Clean Power Plan 3 

### and to encourage all of our policymakers here in 4 

### our Commonwealth to craft the strongest plan 5 

### possible that will truly protect public health. 6 

### Nurses demand strong climate action 7 

### because we are on the front lines of climate 8 

### change. We are caring for patients whose lives 9 

### are deeply impacted by this problem, and their 10 

### numbers will only continue to grow unless we take 11 

### strong action against climate change now. 12 

### For over four decades, I have practiced 13 

### in critical care, coronary care, oncology, and 14 

### home care and hospice in the Pittsburgh area. I 15 

### have seen firsthand the toll of many of these 16 

### diseases, specifically cardiovascular and 17 

### respiratory disease, which takes on the health of 18 

### our community here in Pennsylvania and is the 19 

### number one cause of death, killing over 85 people 20 

### here per day. 21 

### I had the pleasure of listening to a 2239

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### lecture recently by a Dr. Wayne Cascio, an 1 

### Environmental Protection Association 2 

### cardiologist, and it was striking to hear that 3 

### the next gold standard for managing 4 

### cardiovascular health and prevention for those of 5 

### us that live in environmental communities with 6 

### industrial pollution is the use of statin, the 7 

### Lipitors, the Crestors, all of that sort of 8 

### stuff. And it's just really very sad to think 9 

### that we're resorting to medication as a 10 

### preventative measure to ward off cardiovascular 11 

### disease, and the good thing is it does provide an 12 

### anti-inflammatory effect, but that's not the 13



### answer. 14 

### And what people really don't realize is 15 

### the strong connection between heart disease and 16 

### climate change. During heat waves and poor air 17 

### quality days, our emergency rooms are filled to 18 

### capacity with people suffering from cardiac and 19 

### respiratory diseases. By reducing our carbon 20 

### pollution from power plants and coke plants, 21 

### quickly and substantially, we will be able to 2240

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### protect the public health from the impacts of 1 

### climate change. 2 

### The EPA projects -- you folks -- that by 3 

### 2030, the Clean Power Plan would prevent up to 4 

### 6,600 premature deaths and nearly 2,000 hospital 5 

### visits for cardiovascular and respiratory 6 

### illnesses. Let me repeat that: 6,600 premature 7 

### deaths and 2,000 hospital visits. 8 

### I'm hopeful that you all will take on the 9 

### aggressive approach that Oregon has, which I 10 

### believe is 50 percent. Actually, Pennsylvania, 11 

### I'm hoping will do that. The federal government 12 

### is taking an excellent first step to help protect 13 

### public health with the introduction of the Clean 14 

### Power Plan. I'm happy to be alive to see that 15 

### happen. 16 

### But I am calling on all of our 17 

### policymakers here in Pennsylvania to be leaders 18 

### and develop a strong comprehensive plan that will 19 

### reach carbon reduction goals through the 20 

### healthiest approach available, which again has 21 

### been said numerous times here, clean renewable 2241

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### energy sources such as wind and solar power. 1 

### Climate change threatens the health of 2 

### our patients and people. We'll continue to 3 

### suffer the health consequences until we limit 4 

### carbon emissions and other volatile organic 5 

### compounds. We need to put the health of all of 6 

### our Pennsylvanians first and take strong action 7 

### on climate now. 8 

### I thank you very much, and I'm sorry for 9 

### going overtime. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: You're right on time. 11 

### Thank you. 12 

### [Applause.] 13 

### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Bogi? 14 

### MR. BOGI: Good morning. My name is 15 

### Jamin Bogi, J-a-m-i-n, B-o-g-i, and I represent 16 

### the members and staff of the Group Against Smog 17 

### and Pollution, also known as GASP, a nonprofit 18 

### that's fought for cleaner air for our region for 19 

### 67 years -- 47 years, 1969. 20 

### Thank you for the opportunity to comment 21 

### on the federal version of the Clean Power Plan 2242

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### and for coming to Pittsburgh. EPA holds the air 1 

### pollution regulation hearings here in Pittsburgh 2 

### quite often, which is appropriate, since 3 

### Southwestern Pennsylvania has considerable air 4 

### quality challenges. 5 

### We suffer from high levels of 6 

### particulates, ozone, air toxics, and more 7 

### pollutants. A hotter climate will exacerbate our 8 

### already unhealthy air pollution. GASP supports a 9 

### strong federal plan that will make sure everyone 10 

### contributing to the problem will have to work 11 

### toward the solution. 12 

### Thankfully, Pennsylvania's governor is 13 

### committed to complying with this regulation and 14 

### to crafting a state plan before next year's 15 

### deadline. The head of our Department of 16 

### Environmental Protection has already been 17 

### discussion cross-state cooperation with other 18 

### states served by our grid. However, we're 19 

### downwind of a lot of states that are suing to 20 

### block this plan: Ohio suing to stop; Indiana 21 

### suing to stop; West Virginia, Kentucky suing to 2243

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### stop. 1 

### States challenging the rule are 2 

### responsible for almost 80 percent of the needed 3 

### emissions reductions. We need a strong federal 4 

### plan ready to go if any of these states make good 5 

### on their promises to do nothing. 6 

### The rule could not come soon enough. In 7 

### 2014, atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide, 8 

### methane, and nitrous oxide rose again. Methane 9 

### and nitrous oxide rose at rates faster than they 10 

### have in a decade. Carbon dioxide levels have 11 

### never been higher in the history of humanity and 12 

### perhaps haven't been this high in 23 million 13



### years. 14 

### For the world to right this ship, the 15 

### U.S. must take a leadership role. This plan is 16 

### part of that needed leadership. 17 

### But 2014 wasn't just a record year for 18 

### greenhouse gas levels. It was an amazing year 19 

### for renewable energy. Last year half of all new 20 

### power plants brought online created energy from 21 

### renewables, and 60 percent of all new energy 2244

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### investment is going into renewable energy. 1 

### Renewable energy continues to get 2 

### cheaper, and technological advances make 3 

### renewables more exciting each day, even right 4 

### here in this region, from the 5-1/4 megawatts of 5 

### hydropower going in on the existing Braddock 6 

### Locks and Dam, just up the river from here, to 7 

### Pittsburgh-based Aquion Energy's Saltwater 8 

### Batteries that allow consumers to safely store as 9 

### much power from their solar panels or wind 10 

### turbines as they need, to the borough of 11 

### Millvale, which you could probably see if they'd 12 

### let you on the roof here, a borough that's 13 

### working hard to becoming a solar hub, providing 14 

### energy for itself and those around it. 15 

### We have the chance now to make a push 16 

### that leads to a prosperous future, or we can do 17 

### nothing and continue the march backwards to 23 18 

### million years ago. 19 

### Please pass a strong Clean Power Plan 20 

### that will help end humanities retreat into 21 

### prehistory. Thank you. 2245

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### [Applause.] 1 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 2 

### Any questions from the panelists? 3 

### [No audible response.] 4 

### MR. KOERBER: Nope. Thank you both. 5 

### Our next two speakers will be Michael 6


### Bett and Carmen Alexander. 7 

### MR. BETT: May I give you copies of my 8


### statement? 9 

### MR. KOERBER: That would be great. Thank 10 

### you. And a copy for the court reporter, too, if 11 

### you have an extra. 12 

### MR. BETT: Thank you. 13 

### My name is Michael Bett, M-i-c-h-a-e-k, 14 

### B-e-t-t. I have lived in Allegheny County for 15 

### the past 35 years. For the past 21 years, I've 16 

### been a resident of Ben Avon. It's a suburb 17 

### northwest of the city of Pittsburgh where I'm 18 

### also an elected official. I am a member of the 19 

### Ben Avon Council. I am also the managing 20 

### director of the National Science 21 

### Foundation-funded Pittsburgh Science Learning 2246

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### Center are Carnegie Mellon University and the 1 

### University of Pittsburgh where we conduct 2 

### research on how to make learning more effective. 3 

### I want to thank you for your time today. 4 

### The planet is our home, our only home. With the 5 

### increasing drastic weather conditions, we can 6 

### already see the havoc that the climate change is 7 

### beginning to wreak. 8 

### It devastates me to imagine what the 9 

### world will be that our children's children will 10 

### inherit. We have known about this preventable 11 

### disaster for decades and have failed to act. 12 

### Last year the United States was the 13 

### second largest producer of CO2

### emissions 14 

### worldwide, just behind China. I see what we are 15 

### doing to the Earth as akin to me demolishing my 16 

### home, one room at a time, using the wood to heat 17 

### the remainder of my home, and then moving on to 18 

### destroying the next room until nothing is left. 19 

### Of course, this would be madness, but it is 20 

### exactly what we are doing on a global scale. We 21 

### are rapidly destroying our home. 2247

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### While we may have passed the tipping 1 

### point, we must minimize the damage that we do to 2 

### this planet. The United States must lead in 3 

### reductions of these dangerous submissions. This 4 

### will not only help to minimize the damage, but as 5 

### it has been widely reported, it creates economic 6 

### opportunities while improving our environment. 7 

### I applaud you for your actions. My only 8 

### desire is that they were taken decades ago and 9 

### went further. Thank you. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 11 

### [Applause.] 12


### MR. KOERBER: Ms. Alexander? 13 

### MS. ALEXANDER: Good morning. My name is 14 

### Carmen Alexander. That's C, as in cat, 15 

### a-r-m-e-n, A-l-e-x-a-n-d-e-r. I am a current 16 

### resident and a native of Pittsburgh. I'm also a 17 

### community organizer with New Voices Pittsburgh, a 18 

### reproductive justice organization. I'm also here 19 

### standing in solidarity with the National People's 20

### Action. 21 

### Reproductive justice allows me to work 2248

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### with black women and see the negative effects of 1 

### air pollution in their lives on a daily basis. 2 

### We have an environmental justice program that 3 

### allows us to empower black women in our 4 

### community, to learn to vote, and also to 5 

### understand the effects of environmental justice. 6 

### I understand the Clean Air Act has 7 

### directed you to set national clean air standards. 8 

### I'm here today to support the Clean Power Plan. 9 

### I'm here today to ask you to consider my 10 

### community because, historically, communities of 11 

### color are most affected by the effects of air 12 

### pollution. 13 

### One in six children who are black suffer 14 

### from asthma. People who have lower income face a 15 

### greater risk from air pollution because we live 16 

### closer to the sources of pollution. For example, 17 

### my father worked at a steel mill for over 20 18 

### years, and he now lives about 6 miles away from a 19 

### steel mill. 20 

### My ex-husband worked in a steel mill, and 21 

### my children's uncle worked there, too, who now 2249

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### suffers from lung disease. 1 

### Pittsburgh is a demographically 2 

### segregated city. The majority of black people 3 

### live in the East Side of the city, and the 4 

### majority of steel mills are in East Side of the 5 

### city also. In the East Side of city, we are the 6 

### most hilliest of Pittsburgh. So, if you can 7 

### imagine from a respiratory perspective, you have 8 

### to climb hills to get home, and you're breathing 9 

### this air constantly. 10 

### Less than 15 miles from where I grow up, 11 

### where I raised my children also is the Cheswick 12 

### Power Plant, which is a coal-burning power plant. 13 

### I am a mother of five children and a 14 

### grandmother of two, and I have one on the way. I 15 

### raised three boys with asthma and have a grandson 16 

### who has severe respiratory problems. He was 17 

### premature. He was born at 1.5 pounds, and he's 18 

### still with us today. And I'm very happy that 19 

### he's still with us today. 20 

### I will never forget watching my oldest 21 

### son, Kenneth, turn blue in my arms. It was in 2250

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### the '90s. I was living in a very high-crime 1 

### area, and I had to wait for the ambulance to get 2 

### a police escort to come to my child. No mother 3 

### should ever have to deal with that. No mother 4 

### should ever have to wonder if their child is 5 

### going to live or die while they're in their arms. 6 

### I was told that my grandson, Elijah, who 7 

### has severe respiratory problems, will outgrow his 8 

### lungs, and that's something that we face every 9 

### day. And he's 6 years old at this point. 10 

### I can't imagine how I was able to afford 11 

### having three boys who had asthma. I was making 12 

### minimum wage, and at that time, we had to get 13 

### medication for three boys. We had to navigate 14 

### doctors' appointments to make sure they had the 15 

### care they needed. We also had to make sure we 16 

### had the copayment available for them. 17 

### Each year we had to tackle our light 18 

### bills. We had to tackle our gas bills. Many 19 

### times we had five children at home with no gas at 20 

### all, when it's really cold. We had to put 21 

### plastic at the windows. When people think about 2251

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### your gas being cut off, we think about is this 1 

### cold, but we know the negative effects of being 2 

### cold. You're going to catch a cold, and whenever 3 

### our children got a cold, we were always like, "Oh 4 

### my God, they're going to have another asthma 5


### attack." 6 

### We carry around -- if I was on a bus, we 7 

### had to carry around three machines to give them 8 

### albuterol. That's not acceptable. At the time, 9 

### I didn't know the effects of air pollution, but I 10


### know that now. 11 

### We didn't own our home during that time, 12 

### so we didn't qualify for weatherization programs. 13 

### I'm here to let you know I don't want my children 14 

### to raise my grandchildren in poor air quality. 15 

### We know that burning fossil fuel is killing 16 

### communities of color. I'm asking you to 17 

### implement solutions that include setting aside 18 

### resources and renewable energy; 5 percent just 19 

### isn't enough. 20 

### We need to make sure that you create jobs 21 

### so that we can sustain ourselves. For example, 2252

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### here in Pittsburgh, we have the Solarize 1 

### Allegheny. It's a wonderful program that allows 2 

### low-income families to put solar panels into 3 

### their homes, and if they do that, they get a 4 

### federal tax credit. 5 

### But I'm asking us to go a little bit 6 

### more. Can we please create jobs for us in our 7 

### communities with these programs? 8 

### Black people in our community have been 9 

### the victims for too long, and I feel right now 10 

### it's time to make that right. We are dying every 11 

### day. We have to take care of our family. We 12 

### have to bear the cost of burying our family as 13


### well. 14


### We shouldn't have to suffer at the 15 

### expense of our environment. Our environment 16 

### should be helping us to live; it shouldn't be 17 

### helping us to die. 18 

### So I am here today to ask you again to 19 

### please support the Clean Power Plan. Thank you 20 

### for your time and this opportunity. 21 

### [Applause.] 2253

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. 1 

### I would next like to call Sister Donna 2 

### Zwigart and Greg Kochanski, and I probably 3 

### butchered both last names, so my apologies. 4 

### MR. KOCHANSKI: Oh, that's quite all 5 

### right. I'm used to it. 6 

### I have a copy for you. Sorry. I didn't 7 

### bring more. 8 

### SISTER DONNA ZWIGART: I have to get used 9 

### to the microphone. When you're small, it's kind 10 

### of hard. You have to reach up. 11 

### [Pause.] 12


### MR. KOERBER: Comfortable? 13 

### SISTER DONNA ZWIGART: Okay. My name is 14 

### Sister Donna Zwigart. It's "zwi" like Zwigart. 15

### And it's spelled Z-w-i-g-a-r-t. I am a Sister of 16 

### St. Francis of the Neumann Communities. We have 17 

### our regional house in my hometown, which is 18 

### Millville, Pennsylvania. This is a small borough 19 

### about 3 miles from the city of Pittsburgh. 20 

### I want to thank the EPA for this 21 

### opportunity to comment on the Clean Power Plan 2254

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### which, if enacted, will cut carbon emissions from 1 

### the dirtiest power plants by 30 percent in 2030. 2 

### This will protect our water, our air, climate, 3 

### and community health by preventing 150,000 asthma 4 

### attacks, as the lady before me said, and up to 5 

### 6,600 premature births annually. So you can see 6 

### I am in support of this plan. 7 

### As a resident of the Pittsburgh area most 8 

### of my life, I've witnessed personally the fossil 9 

### fuel effects of soot, poor air quality, 10 

### emphysema, COPD, and heart disease in our 11 

### community, especially affecting the poor who are 12 

### left to live always near these pollution 13 

### services. 14 

### Each year billions of dollars are spent 15


### on health care for the treatment of these 16 

### diseases. Think of the dollars we would save if 17 

### we can improve the air quality of our Earth. 18 

### This money can be used for education, clean 19 

### energy jobs, and economic growth. 20 

### I would like to talk about, as a person 21 

### of the church or of the cross or whatever you 2255

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### call it -- I would like to talk about the rights 1 

### of our citizens as expressed in our constitution, 2 

### the federal constitution, which says we have the 3 

### right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of 4 

### happiness. My belief is that all of creation has 5 

### the right to live. Sometimes this is dubbed as 6


### the "Earth law." 7 

### To live, we need air, clean from carbon 8 

### pollution. fossil fuel power plants are the 9 

### largest source of these greenhouse gases, which 10 

### contribute to climate change on our Mother Earth 11 

### and affect all of our brothers and sisters, our 12 

### kin in the Kingdom of our Creator. 13 

### We witness communities across the globe 14 

### with the effects of displacement from their homes 15 

### due to drought and extreme weather conditions, 16 

### and our children are suffering from poor air 17 

### quality. I believe that if we pollute the air, 18 

### we are preventing all our kin from their right to 19 

### live to the pursuit of happiness. 20 

### The Clean Power Plan is a step in the 21 

### right direction to deal with climate change as it 2256

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### directs the EPA to set national clean standards 1 

### for carbon pollution from existing fossil fuel 2 

### power plants. It also states much leeway in 3 

### developing standards to affect each state that 4 

### coincides with this national standard. If states 5 

### refuse to comply, the EPA needs to promptly issue 6 

### a federal implementation plan for clean air to 7 

### protect Mother Earth from the effects of climate 8 

### change. 9 

### Attention also should be to low-income 10 

### consumers, protecting them, to invest in energy 11 

### efficiency to lower their energy bills as is 12


### needed. 13 

### As a Franciscan -- this is off the 14 

### record. As a Franciscan, we work with the poor 15 

### all the time. That's part of who we are, and so 16 

### we see the effects that the lady before us said. 17 

### We see this all over. Off the record. Okay. 18 

### Also, this plan needs to protect 19 

### minority, low income, in communities who are most 20 

### likely to experience the impacts of climate 21 

### change. 2257

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### In conclusion, in appreciation, I would 1 

### like to share from Pope Paul -- or Pope Francis' 2 

### Laudato Si'. He writes, quote, Our creator can 3 

### teach us how to show care, to inspire us to work 4 

### with generosity and tenderness in protecting this 5 

### world, which has been entrusted to us. Thank 6



### you. 7 

### [Applause.] 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 9 

### Mr. Kochanski. Any better? 10 

### MR. KOCHANSKI: Yep, exactly. 11 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 12 

### MR. KOCHANSKI: Thank you for the 13 

### opportunity. I'm Greg Kochanski. It's 14 

### K-o-c-h-a-n-s-k-i. I like to think of myself as 15 

### something between a scientist and an engineer. I 16 

### have a physics Ph.D. from MIT, and I have taught 17 

### at the University of Oxford. On the engineering 18 

### side, I worked at Bell Laboratories and Google, 19 

### and I'm scared because I have three kids. And 20 

### with luck, they'll be around in 2100 or near 21 

### 2100, and they are going to see some climate 2258

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### nastiness at that time, even under optimistic 1 

### scenarios. 2 

### In grandchildren, well, my daughter is a 3 

### geophysicist. She hasn't had children yet, and 4 

### sometimes she takes a pretty bleak view of our 5 

### political will to actually solve the climate 6 

### change problem or control it, so I don't know. 7 

### Meanwhile, I do what I can as an 8 

### individual. I walk to work. We have a hybrid 9 

### car. I've insulated the attic. My electricity 10 

### comes -- nominally comes from Texas wind farms, 11 

### and I buy carbon offsets. It's not nearly 12 

### enough. 13 

### Because I've been lucky enough to have a 14 

### technical career, I can read the scientific 15 

### papers and understand the mechanisms, and it's 16 

### grim and scary reading. As you know well, the 17 

### literature is basically trustworthy. While there 18 

### are some uncertainties about the details, the 19 

### broader picture is very clear. Specifically, to 20 

### avoid serious trouble, we have about 30 years of 21 

### a globally shared carbon budget that corresponds 2259

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### to 30 years of our current rate of consumption. 1 

### So, within 30 years or less, we need to 2 

### rebuild the economy to be largely fossil-free. 3 

### We might have less time if science discovers some 4 

### unexpected positive feedback mechanisms, and we 5 

### have one year less since November 3rd when China 6 

### unexpectedly reported that they were burning 10 7 

### to 15 percent more coal than everyone thought. 8 

### So people will tell you -- and doubtless 9 

### they have told you -- that 29 years is too short 10 

### a time to rebuilt our energy supplies. People 11 

### will tell you that the economic life of a power 12 

### plant is 30 to 50 years, and so we must move 13 

### slowly, but you shouldn't believe them. The 14 

### people who tell you that have grown up in a 15 

### static industry, when 10 percent of power plants 16 

### are older than I am and where efficiencies have 17 

### increased by just a few percentage points since I 18 

### was born -- or since then. 19 

### It's an industry that has had relatively 20 

### little recent innovation, and now the industry is 21 

### starting to be replaced. We're starting to get 2260

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### wind and solar competing with these old fossil 1 

### fuel plants. They have a similar cost per 2 

### megawatt hour and fewer strip mines, no carbon 3 

### pollution, on fly ash, and no oil spills. 4 

### The people running the power plants, the 5 

### people running the electric power industry are 6 

### doubtless smart people, but their experience 7 

### hasn't prepared them for the changes in 8 

### technology that are happening. I've seen a 9 

### similar transition myself. 10 

### When I started working at AT&T in 1987, 11 

### telephones were very different from computers. 12 

### Each phone call was carried over a dedicated 13 

### circuit, and the circuit was expensive. But 14 

### change was coming. Fiber optic cables would, 15 

### over the next decade, made data transport 16 

### unimaginably cheap, and computers would become 17 

### fast enough to economically process and switch 18 

### phone calls. 19 

### So between 1995 and 2002, my own company, 20 

### Lucent Technologies, was run over by 21 

### technological change. It couldn't adapt fast 2261

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### enough. It had too many people who expected 1 

### incremental improvements. Lucent went from a 2 

### stable, profitable company to one that was losing 3 

### money, shrinking, and about to be acquired in a 4 

### fire sale. 5 

### But despite the collapse of some of the 6 

### big telecommunication companies -- or near 7 

### collapse -- phones kept working. Despite the 8 

### fact that some companies lost money and that old 9 

### technology was thrown away before it wore out, 10 

### the new technologies drive incredible 11 

### improvements that have now been picked up by over 12 

### a billion people. Everyone has a smart phone 13



### now. 14 

### By analogy, you can't afford to have too 15 

### much sympathy for the current players in the 16 

### electric power industry. They are old 17 

### technologies that are about to be run over by the 18 

### new. Some of the current companies may provide 19 

### the change to renewables, but many of them won't 20 

### be able to adapt rapidly enough. 21 

### The welfare of old power plants is not 2262

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### our primary concern. As long as we exercise a 1 

### moderate amount of care, the free market will 2 

### keep the lights on, and those old-technology coal 3 

### and natural gas plants will be replaced with 4 

### something cheaper and cleaner. 5 

### So, in conclusion, I applaud your 6 

### efforts, the EPA's efforts to regulate carbon 7 

### pollution, but I think we are not being nearly 8 

### aggressive enough. We need to stable the global 9 

### carbon budget and move fast, not at the slow pace 10 

### that the electric power industry would like to 11 

### see. We're growing a new industry out of new 12 

### technologies, and our goal should be to shut down 13 

### the old dirty power generation industry as soon 14 

### as possible. The new industry will grow to 15 

### replace the old. 16 

### Thank you. 17 

### [Applause.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 19 

### both for being here today, and I want to thank 20 

### all the audience for their attendance. I 21 

### appreciate you all being here. 2263

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### I would next like to call G Style and 1 

### Lucy Velez. 2 

### I will remind the audience to keep your 3 

### phones on vibrate, if at all possible. Thank 4


### you. 5 

### MR. MYERS: Hello. My name is G-Styles. 6


### I am here on behalf of the Feed Da Streetz Tour. 7 

### We traveled here from Michigan. We're 8 

### represented by the Sierra Club, also Michigan 9 

### United. We're also represented by Detroit, and 10 

### we're also going through similar problems that 11 

### the people in Pittsburgh are going through, and 12 

### we hope that the EPA understands our problems and 13



### our concerns. 14 

### And my question is, would you guys be 15 

### able to relate to what we're going through? Have 16 

### you ever been in the same situation that we're 17 

### going through? 18 

### The reason why I'm asking is because the 19 

### fact is River Rouge is surrounded by industry, so 20 

### you're talking about DTE Power Plan, Severstal 21 

### Steel, the U.S. Great Lakes Steel Plant. So all 2264

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### of these plants are surrounding our community, 1


### and that's a fact. 2 

### Now, when you talk about using your 3 

### imagination, that's a slow process of 4 

### suffocation, the way that we're being surrounded 5 

### by the smog. A faster process of suffocation 6 

### would be to simply put a bag over your head and 7 

### then probably tell one of your friends to light a 8 

### cigarette and blow the smoke inside the bag and 9 

### see how long you could be able to breathe. So 10 

### use your imagination and see that that's a faster 11 

### process of killing us. 12 

### And when you talk about having our 13 

### health, which is our greatest asset, and you look 14 

### at what's more important and what people are 15 

### doing with the money and how they're managing the 16 

### money, it is kind of similar to how we are 17 

### managing our lives. The mismanagement of money 18 

### is actually ultimately creating depression in my 19 

### community. 20 

### I come from an area where they're 21 

### building jail cells instead of bringing more 2265

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### businesses into the city. What type of system is 1 

### that from? So, when you talk about the smog and 2 

### things that we are breathing in, we have 3 

### neurological disorders, which creates a high 4 

### crime rate. We have people that are suffering 5 

### because we pay high property taxes in an area 6 

### that we already can't breathe in. So the rate of 7 

### survival is doubled by the fact that we have to 8 

### constantly calk out money, and then we're also at 9 

### work all the time trying to pay these property 10 

### taxes, which gives us less time to spend with our 11 

### families, which are dying from the pollution. So 12 

### this is what we live, and we live it. 13 

### And then another term I want to express 14 

### is you should de-live it if you live it. So, 15 

### live it is you're furiously angry about how 16 

### you're being looked at in society. So now we're 17 

### talking about what can we do to have a clean, 18 

### renewable plan that can have the energy 19 

### sustainable to where we can still have our same 20 

### heat in our homes with less bills, and that way 21 

### we can have less stress, less depression. 2266

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### We've also had opportunities to travel to 1 

### other areas, such as Arizona, and we're looking 2 

### at their -- the situation with fracking out there 3 

### is unbearable, but then you talk about their 4 

### property taxes are only like $600 a year as 5 

### opposed to what our property taxes would be on 6 

### average in River Rouge to be about $2,500, which 7 

### is more than double. So these things, quite 8 

### frankly, would piss us off if we have to 9 

### constantly deal with these things on a regular 10 

### basis. 11 

### Now, my son was born prematurely due to 12 

### all of the things with the coal-fired power 13 

### plants. You guys already know about the 14 

### percentages, as plenty of people here that know 15 

### of the percentages. 16 

### My circumstances and my perspective is 17 

### the results of what the percentages have brought 18 

### to my family. My mother has suffered multiple 19 

### heart attacks, and we have tried to figure out 20


### what we can do to move her out of that area. We 21


### moved her out of that area to the West Coast so 2267

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### she could breathe better and have a better 1 

### opportunity at life, and it still -- it seemed 2 

### like it may have been too late. 3 

### So, at this point, I am solely focused on 4 

### trying to help my mother rehab from the system 5 

### that's been put in place here. I'm not upset 6 

### about you telling the audience to refrain from 7 

### saying "That's not right," but, I mean, how could 8 

### you tell us to refrain when we're going through 9 

### all the things that we're going through? I mean, 10 

### I'm looking at it, it's like a lack of urgency, 11 

### and we have all these testimonies, which I've 12 

### been testifying at the EPA for about 2 or 3 13 

### years, and I'm looking at my city still have a 14 

### bridge that's not fixed, which is also taking 15 

### business away from our cities. 16 

### So how can we recover a city's tax base 17 

### when you don't even have a business that can 18 

### actually receive business from community members 19 

### coming through the city, on top of us being 20 

### suffocated, on top of us having opportunity to 21 

### have our crime rate just through the roof because 2268

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### we have a lack of funds? 1 

### And it shouldn't be such a thing or a 2 

### phrase called "low income." That should be 3 

### removed from people's vocabulary. Everybody 4 

### should have a right to have a substantial amount 5 

### of income where we don't have crime, and you 6 

### looking at this position that we're in, we should 7 

### be pissed off. We should be upset. There should 8


### be thousands of us here. We should have more 9 

### notice. The media should be here and 10 

### understanding that our health is our greatest 11


### asset. 12 

### We can't even operate a coal-fired power 13 

### plant if we're dead, so that's the bottom line. 14 

### So we're looking at a bottom-line business where 15 

### people would rather spend money on Super Bowl 16 

### commercials. 17 

### And we watching these commercials, but we 18 

### all have cancer watching these commercials. We 19 

### all have high blood pressure watching these 20 

### commercials. They're telling us to eat Doritos 21 

### and buy McDonald's. That's all in our community 2269

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### killing our people. 1 

### So, if you're not frustrated about it, 2 

### then that means that -- I don't know how much you 3 

### guys get paid to sit here and listen to our 4 

### concerns, but it must be a lot for you all to 5 

### have this much patience. We don't have patience, 6 

### so we partner with people from Buffalo. We 7 

### definitely want to partner with people from 8 

### Pittsburgh, so that we can have a strong alliance 9 

### -- and people that's going through this all over 10 

### the country, we want to have a strong alliance, 11 

### so that way the EPA could stand firm in your all 12 

### decision to have a cleaner power plant, and we 13 

### have to let the people know that's running the 14 

### power plants that their families eventually are 15 

### going to have to suffer from it as well. 16 

### So it's inevitable if you don't 17 

### understand the keys to success, and in my city, 18 

### we're looking at developing businesses that can 19 

### recover the city's tax base. And you're talking 20 

### about coal; it's 60 percent of our tax base in 21 

### River Rouge. So now once that industry leaves, 2270

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### what are we going to do to actually have people 1 

### come into our city to have it thrive? 2 

### It's going to end up like our neighboring 3 

### city, Delray and Zug Island. Nobody is in that 4 

### city because it's run by industry, and people are 5 

### living. But we still got kids there playing in 6 

### the park every day getting sick, and these are 7 

### the same people that you all want to leave the 8 

### country tomorrow, but they're not going to be 9 

### healthy enough to leave the country. 10 

### So what are we going to do? We're going 11 

### to try to figure out how to go to Mars or 12 

### something like that? I mean, that's just my 13 

### concern, and these circumstances that we're in 14 

### right now, we have a sense of urgency. And I 15


### would stress the EPA had the same sense of 16 

### urgency that we have and help us thrive within 17 

### our community instead of all of our family 18 

### members dying on a regular basis. 19 

### And pretty much, that's it. 20 

### [Applause and cheering.] 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 2271

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### Ms. Velez. 1 

### MS. VELEZ: Yes. Let me get a little 2 

### closer. I'm a little height impaired. 3 

### My name is Lucy Velez, and I want to 4 

### thank you for allowing me to address you. And 5 

### I'm here, I'm angry, and I'm sick, okay? 6 

### I was a community social worker for the 7 

### Lower West Side of Buffalo for over 25 years 8 

### until my disability forced me to retire. So if I 9 

### take a moment to breathe, just give me a second 10 

### to breathe every so often, okay? 11 

### And, as I said, I was supposed to retire 12 

### and go from a single mom with two jobs to a 13 

### disability check once a month. I drove all the 14 

### way from Buffalo, New York, with some great 15 

### people from PUSH Buffalo that I recently got to 16 

### know and looked upon them with great respect, and 17 

### the National People's Action Group. And I'm here 18 

### representing the mosaic and distinct and diverse 19 

### community that's underrepresented, silent, and 20 

### non-English speaking of the Lower West Side, who 21 

### also happen to be the most underserved and 2272

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### disenfranchised people, and we are here in 1 

### support of the Clean Power Plan. 2 

### I've been a victim as well as many others 3 

### who have talked here, physically and negatively 4 

### impacted by the lack of clean air and the failure 5 

### to thrive in a community due to the lack of 6 

### sustainable clean resources in our area. 7 

### The Lower West Side suffers from the 8 

### highest level from asthma and bronchitis and 9 

### other debilitating and deadly breathing disorders 10 

### because our rights have been stripped like mines 11 

### have been stripping, like coal has been 12 

### stripping, and has silenced us for just too long. 13

### And enough is enough. 14 

### We have had some of the worst winters, 15 

### and we've been affected by the crippling storm of 16 

### 1977 that shut down the city of Buffalo. We've 17 

### also had -- granted, we didn't have a Hurricane 18 

### Sandy, but we did have the winter storm of 2005, 19 

### the October storm, based upon the fact that the 20 

### climate is changing, and it is damaging our area, 21 

### okay? 2273

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### We've had some of the most dangerous 1 

### toxic levels of emissions because we live, I live 2 

### on the border of the Canadian and American Peace 3 

### Bridge, which has one of the highest emissions of 4 

### gas and other toxic carcinogens because there 5 

### have been on checks and balances on the state, 6 

### city, and federal level to protect us. 7 

### Big companies like Bethlehem Steel -- I 8 

### know people remember Bethlehem Steel -- and 9 

### Tonawanda Coal Factory have continually damaged 10 

### us and walked away with not a slap on the wrist 11 

### of fine or even been given any compensatory 12 

### damages as it was to people like us who have been 13 

### left sick, and some of us have already died 14 

### because of it. 15 

### I'm barely leave my home, okay, due to 16 

### some breathing and seizure disorders that are 17 

### based upon environmental factors, okay? And I 18 

### don't know a lot of the people at PUSH. They 19 

### always see me with a hat on, okay? I took the 20 

### hat off because I'm not going to be embarrassed 21 

### if you see patches of my hair that have fallen 2274

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### out because of environmental factors, okay? So 1 

### I'm not going to be embarrassed anymore. I'm 2 

### just going to be angry, okay? 3 

### And so I barely leave my home, but I knew 4 

### that this was important, and I needed to get here 5 

### to let you know that if you look at me, stop and 6 

### look at me, I'm the face of somebody that's sick. 7 

### I'm the face of somebody that's dying because all 8 

### these companies are not just supporting and 9 

### sustaining a renewable plan that can help us, 10 

### okay? 11 

### We're tired of Band-Aids. We're tired of 12 

### HEAP that's supposed to help our community and 13 

### yet at the same time that's all it is. It's a 14 

### Band-Aid. We need a program. We need a plan 15 

### that will ensure that we can face what's 16 

### happening in our communities. 17 

### As I said, a clean energy incentive plan 18 

### for low income that gives us access to renewable 19 

### energy, we need mandatory and equal accessibility 20 

### to these programs. Polluters in our areas should 21 

### be made to pay with monies to support and 2275

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### establish renewable and have energy-efficient 1 

### sustainable programs that will help our community 2 

### with jobs, with dignity, with respect for our 3 

### lives and our future, okay? 4 

### I bought my house as a single mother, 5 

### okay, 18 years ago. I worked two jobs, okay? 6 

### Two jobs, okay? And I supported my child, and I 7 

### was forced to retire, okay, in 2006. I used most 8 

### of my retirement money, okay, trying to keep my 9 

### gas bills down, trying to keep a roof from 10 

### falling in on me because I didn't know about 11 

### weatherization until I found the people from the 12 

### PUSH program to tell me about the fact that 13 

### there's some monies that can help me, okay? But 14 

### that's still in and of itself not enough in terms 15 

### of what needs to be done for programming, okay? 16 

### So I'm looking at this and I'm saying 17 

### that I'm learning a lot from them because then I 18 

### decided, okay, I want some solar, I want some 19 

### solar panels put on my house, okay? Eventually, 20 

### I want to be able to control what's going on in 21 

### my household and lower some of my bills. Well, 2276

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### guess what? My roof cannot sustain solar panels, 1 

### so I got to wait until a grant is available so 2 

### that I can get my roof fixed so that I can get 3 

### that grant so that I can live on the monthly 4 

### disability monies that I get from the federal 5 

### government. 6 

### And granted, I'm happy to get it, but I 7 

### worked two damn jobs for it, okay? I worked for 8 

### it, okay? 9 

### So, when I look at what's going on in 10 

### this city and I look at my house, I have yet to 11 

### put the heat on, and I know that it's been cold. 12 

### It has been cold. We have had some really great, 13 

### nice days, but it has been cold. I have not put 14 

### the heat on because I cannot afford, because I do 15 

### not want to afford to have to depend on HEAP in 16 

### order to pay my bills, okay? It's not a matter 17 

### of being proud. It's just a matter of saying, 18 

### "Hey, listen, we got to do better. We need to do 19 

### better," okay? 20 

### So what I want you people to understand 21 

### is I'm angry. I feel very desperate. I feel 2277

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### very disenfranchised. We need these programs. 1 

### We need to back them up. We need that they 2 

### provide jobs to compensate and reimburse us not 3 

### temporarily, until their conscience is cleared, 4 

### but to bring the justice and the dignity back to 5 

### our communities, okay? 6 

### These types of clean energy incentive 7 

### programs need to expand yearly, and you can see 8 

### the research. Come and fix my house. Come and 9 

### see some of the houses that need to be fixed in 10 

### the area of Buffalo, in the area of Chicago, 11 

### okay, in the area of Pittsburgh, okay? Look at 12 

### these houses, and you'll have enough research to 13 

### realize, okay, that these things need to be 14 

### invested, okay? Not just medical corridors that 15 

### supply all these wonderful jobs for people that 16 

### we can't afford because we are not trained 17 

### properly to have, okay, or fixing up these 18 

### waterfronts that we can't afford to take part in 19 

### the activities because we can't afford to pay our 20 

### bills, let alone that, okay? 21 

### So I'm looking at -- 2278

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### MR. KOERBER: Ms. Velez, thank you so 1 

### much for being here today. Can you wrap it up? 2 

### MS. VELEZ: Oh, yes. I am going to wrap 3 

### it up right now, okay? 4 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 5 

### MS. VELEZ: I want you to please support 6 

### and understand that we need an emission reduction 7 

### credit and renewable energy allowance that will 8 

### come back to our communities and to bring the 9 

### jobs, build the economy that was destroyed, 10 

### replace not with bad or dirty solutions, but a 11 

### new temporary way to see the future grow in our 12 

### communities and to help us to understand that we 13 

### have pride, and we want to see a whole complete 14 

### city that is worth coming to on all sides, West 15 

### Side, East Side, North Side, and South Side. 16 

### Thank you. 17 

### [Applause.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. 19 

### I do appreciate the many people from 20 

### Buffalo and Detroit and other places for 21 

### traveling here today to be with us. Thank you 2279

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### all for being here today. 1 

### I would next like to call Vicki Dobbins 2


### and Susan Koehler. 3 

### MS. KOEHLER: My name is Susan Koehler, 4 

### K-o-e-h-l-e-r. I'm from Pittsburgh, and I don't 5 

### represent an organization. I come here speaking 6 

### as a private citizen, a mother, and a grandmother 7 

### of six lively children. I would like to see 8 

### those lively children inherit an Earth worth 9 

### living in. 10 

### I try to talk to them about our living 11 

### habits. I take them out to my compost bin and 12 

### make them dump the stuff in. We drive greener 13 

### cars, but nothing will matter so much as lowering 14 

### pollution from the nation's power plants. 15 

### I fear for these grandchildren in many 16 

### ways. Climate disasters, including drought and 17 

### coastal flooding, may generate refugees of a 18 

### number that eclipses the current refugee crisis 19 

### in Europe. Equally frightening to me is the 20 

### unreliability in food production that will result 21 

### from changes in weather. 2280

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### In March of this year, the global monthly 1 

### average of carbon dioxide concentration surpassed 2 

### 400 parts per million for the first time since 3 

### such measurements were taken. The past three 4 

### decades have been hotter than any time in the 5 

### past 1,400 years. We've had a very pleasant 6 

### early November, and that's okay, but the arc of 7 

### weather change is unmistakable. 8 

### No one can deny this. The question is, 9 

### how much of this is caused by human behavior? 10

### Again, the answer, to me, is hard to avoid. An 11 

### increase in carbon dioxide levels are at the 12 

### heart of the change, and humans put a lot of 13 

### carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. 14 

### Power plants are the nation's largest 15 

### source of carbon pollution. There is a lot to 16 

### like in the Clean Power Plan. I trust in local 17 

### solutions, and this one encourages the states to 18 

### think within and beyond the three building blocks 19 

### recommended by the EPA. Each state has its own 20 

### mix of energy types, and I call upon my own state 21 

### of Pennsylvania to become a leader in planning 2281

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### and implementing a solution. I believe there is 1 

### an economic boost awaiting those who are 2 

### aggressive in finding new solutions. 3 

### Some business interests have their 4 

### doubts, but going green can put green in our 5 

### pockets as well. There's a very classic case 6 

### from the auto industry back in the '70s when they 7 

### resisted a requirement that they phase in 8 

### catalytic converters for new cars and trucks. I 9 

### often think about this one because rather than 10 

### cause the auto industry to collapse, there was a 11 

### whole new global market for the catalytic 12


### converters. 13 

### I want to say thank you to the EPA for 14 

### taking action to cut carbon pollution from power 15 

### plants. I think the clean power plant is truly a 16 

### momentous step forward to protect our health and 17 

### future generations. 18 

### Thank you. 19 

### [Applause.] 20 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 21 

### Ms. Dobbins. 2282

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### MS. DOBBINS: Good morning. Thank you 1 

### again for having us today. My name is Vicki 2 

### Dobbins, spelled V-i-c-k-i. Last name, 3 

### D-o-b-b-i-n-s. I am a member and volunteer for 4 

### the Michigan United and National People's Actions 5 

### and the Sierra Club, a resident of River Rouge 6 

### 48218, 48217, and Southwest Detroit 48229. We 7 

### are the highest and most polluted area in the 8 

### state of Michigan. 9 

### As a former River Rouge School Board 10 

### member, I have seen devastation to students due 11 

### to dirty air, water, and land. Students spend 12 

### many hours in hospitals and emergency rooms due 13 

### to asthma, bronchitis, and other breathing 14 

### problems. I also suffer from asthma, lose my 15 

### breath, choke, gasp for air. I am asking for 16 

### clean air, and we believe that you can do it. 17 

### We are asking the EPA to reduce the 18 

### emissions and help our community enjoy clean air, 19 

### reduce pollution and help us with the change and 20 

### future environment issues. 21 

### As an asthma patient myself, I use an 2283

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### inhaler. I also have a machine, and I also have 1 

### pills and other ways of healing myself, garlic as 2



### one. 3 

### So what my suggestion to the EPA is if 4 

### you're having difficulties helping to clean the 5 

### air, maybe you will provide each asthma, 6 

### bronchitis patient an inhaler or maybe an 7 

### aspiratus so that they can walk around with the 8 

### machine that will help them to breathe. There's 9 

### got to be some solutions. We're looking for 10 

### solutions here. 11 

### As a substitute teacher on yesterday, I 12 

### spoke with a young lady who was in ROTC. She was 13 

### fully uniformed and ready to go. As a 12th 14 

### grader, she wanted to go and join the Navy for 15 

### females. So I congratulated her and told her how 16 

### wonderful I thought it was that she would have a 17 

### bright future for herself. She says, "No, ma'am. 18 

### I have asthma. I have bronchitis. I'm sick." 19 

### This was a 16-year-old who has no future. We 20 

### need to stop and think about it, gentlemen, 21 

### because it's not just me. We're talking about 2284

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### young people who are in high school, who already 1 

### know that with asthma, who is going to hire them? 2 

### It's an insurance risk. Who is going to give 3


### them a break? 4 

### I already had insurance. They need 5 

### insurance, but if you don't want to do that, an 6 

### aspiratus for each person. This is $650 if 7 

### anybody wants to know, without insurance. 8 

### Thank you so very much for listening to 9



### me. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 11 

### [Applause.] 12 

### MR. KOERBER: I would next like to call 13 

### Patrice Tomcik and Lois Bower-Bjornson. 14 

### MS. TOMCIK: Good morning. My name is 15 

### Patrice Tomcik, T-o-m-c-i-k, and I'm a field 16 

### organizer with Moms Clean Air Force. And I want 17 

### to start off by thanking the EPA for finalizing 18 

### carbon pollution limits that provide the clear 19 

### standards of performance for limiting carbon 20 

### pollution, and that provides states with the 21 

### flexibility to achieve those standards, so thank 2285

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### you very much. 1 

### We have an obligation to our children and 2 

### to future generations to protect them from the 3 

### carbon pollution that is putting their health at 4 

### risk and fueling extreme weather across the 5 

### country. Children are at a higher risk for the 6 

### negative health effects of our changing climate, 7 

### including respiratory illness and asthma attacks. 8 

### According to the American Lung Association, 9 

### approximately 55 million children are living in 10 

### 191 counties nationwide where the air quality 11 

### places them at risk for premature death, 12 

### aggravated asthma, difficulty breathing, 13 

### cardiovascular harm, and lower birth weight. 14 

### This is a tragedy. 15 

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are 16 

### responsible for 40 percent of the manmade carbon 17 

### dioxide emissions for decades, and these dirty 18 

### power plants have been allowed to dump unlimited 19 

### amounts of carbon into the air. 20 

### We need America's Clean Power Plan to be 21 

### enacted swiftly and in full force. Doing so will 2286

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### reduce heat-trapping gases like carbon and help 1 

### limit climate change that affects us all. 2 

### Children are particularly vulnerable to the 3 

### health impacts of climate change. Children's 4 

### body systems are still developing and don't 5 

### detoxify themselves like adults can. 6 

### In addition, children have a longer shelf 7 

### life, meaning that they have more years to live 8 

### with these exposures and to develop adverse 9


### health effects. 10 

### The Clean Power Plan will create 11 

### immediate health benefits for everyone by 12 

### reducing soot and smog-causing pollution. Cuts 13 

### to smog and soot come along with reducing carbon 14 

### pollution, and this will bring major health 15 

### benefits for American families. 16 

### In 2030, this will mean up to 3,600 fewer 17 

### premature deaths, 90,000 fewer asthma attacks in 18 

### children, 1,700 fewer hospital admissions, and 19 

### avoiding 300,000 missed days of school and work. 20 

### The Pittsburgh area is on the American 21 

### Lung Association's list of areas of poor air 2287

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### quality year after year. I would like to get off 1 

### this list. 2 

### My father lives about 1.5 miles away from 3 

### the Cheswick Power Plant, and this is also the 4 

### location of where my elementary school was, so 5 

### there's lots of children there. As I drive to 6 

### visit him, I see the plumes from the stacks float 7 

### over the river towards his house. The front of 8 

### the house is covered with soot, even though there 9 

### is not a major highway near his house. He just 10 

### has a heart attack this past February with 11 

### quintuple bypass surgery. 12 

### The Clean Power Plan has benefits that 13 

### far outweigh the costs. Cutting carbon pollution 14 

### from power plants will have public health and 15 

### climate benefits estimated at 55- to 95 billion 16 

### per year by 2030. It will also drive innovation 17 

### and clean energy sources to power the 21st 18 

### century, growing our economy, and creating 19 

### renewable energy jobs in manufacturing in those 20 

### installations. 21 

### Today the U.S. is generating 3 times more 2288

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### wind energy and 20 times more solar power than 1 

### when President Obama took office, and the solar 2 

### industry is adding jobs 10 times faster than the 3 

### rest of the economy. 4 

### The Clean Power Plan is the most 5 

### impactful step in limiting the health impacts of 6 

### climate change. I support the common-sense 7 

### solution in the Clean Power Plan. 8 

### To ensure clean air for all Americans, 9 

### the EPA must act timely, effectively, and ensure 10 

### real-world emission reductions are secured when 11 

### states decline to do so. The Clean Power Plan is 12 

### an historic step forward to give our kids and 13 

### grandkids the cleaner, safer future they deserve. 14 

### Thank you very much. 15 

### [Applause.] 16 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 17 

### MS. BOWER-BJORNSON: Hi. My name is Lois 18 

### Bower-Bjornson. It's L-o-i-s, B-o-w-e-r, with a 19 

### dash, B-j-o-r-n-s-o-n. I live in Scenery Hill, 20 

### Pennsylvania. I'm about 40 miles south of the 21 

### city. I am surrounded currently in my home in a 2289

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### 2-to-5-mile areas with probably 10 gas wells. 1 

### Now, it's not just 10 because in each pad of 2 

### those wells are 6 to 8, sometimes 10 wells, so 3 

### you're looking at approximately 80 wells. That's 4 

### in a 2-mile radius of my home. We also have two 5 

### compression stations. I have a pipeline of 75 6 

### feet on my property, so we're literally bombarded 7 

### with it. If you go to a point in Scenery Hill, 8 

### you can count all the wells in Canonsburg, 9 

### Masontown. You can see the steel building. You 10 

### can count every single well in the area, and it 11 

### literally encircles us. 12 

### My family has grown up in this area for 13 

### 200 years, so we literally have been raped by the 14 

### coal industry, the steel industry, and now oil 15 

### and gas. They have been allowed to pollute our 16 

### water. Our water, we get a notice every other 17 

### month. It is toxic. It is the Monongahela 18 

### River. It's now on the Endangered Species List. 19 

### You can look all that up. It was polluted when I 20 

### was a child growing up, and it did get cleaner, 21 

### and now it's polluted again. The things that are 2290

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### in the water cannot come out. We can't drink our 1 

### water. We have a reverse osmosis system in our 2 

### home for drinking, but we still have to bathe in 3 

### it and wash our clothes in it, not to mention the 4 

### methane from the gas oils, not to mention the 5 

### carbon dioxide that is all around us. This has 6 

### been going on for hundreds of years where big 7 

### industry has been allowed to really kill us, and 8 

### it's about time that something is done about it. 9 

### I have four children myself. I have a 10 

### small business on my property. My dancers look 11 

### out, and we look at the new gas well that's 12 

### literally 2 miles from our house that just went 13 

### up. It's about time that people really start to 14 

### realize what's happening here, and that hopefully 15 

### when wind and solar start to make as much money 16 

### as fossil fuels, which is really the big issue 17 

### here, it will take over. 18 

### There are jobs available in every facet 19 

### of clean energy. I realize that it's hard to let 20 

### go of that, but it is a dying industry, and it is 21 

### vitally important now for everybody's future. 2291

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### And we're all older, but we've got kids, and we 1 

### have grandchildren. And I think people need to 2 

### step out of their bureaucratic chairs and look at 3 

### your kids, look at your grandchildren, and 4 

### realize that if this isn't done that there won't 5 

### be any future because we can't drink money and 6 

### breathe month. So all the money in the world 7 

### won't help us, even to go to Mars. We've got to 8 

### live up there too. 9 

### [Laughter.] 10 

### MS. BOWER-BJORNSON: So I appreciate your 11 

### time. It's highly imperative. I think everyone 12 

### knows it, and for people that still want to try 13 

### to deny climate change and global warming from 14 

### any perspective -- do you remember the aerosol 15 

### cans that we don't do anymore and all that? How 16 

### big is the hole in the ozone layer now? So to 17 

### say that that doesn't happen is quite silly and 18 

### ignorant to a degree. 19 

### I commend that this step is being taken 20 

### and hope that it continues and quickly. Thank 21



### you. 2292

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### [Applause.] 1 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 2 

### I'd next like to call Annie Regan and 3 

### Margaret Parsons. 4 

### And let me just ask: Does it feel any 5 

### cooler in here to people? I know it was very 6 

### warm when we started. Does it feel better? 7 

### [No audible response.] 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay, good. It feels 9 

### better to me too, but I want to make sure you're 10


### all comfortable. 11 

### MS. REGAN: Good afternoon. My name is 12

### Annie Regan, A-n-n-i-e, R-e-g-a-n, and I am the 13 

### Western Pennsylvania Outreach Coordinator at 14 

### PennFuture, a statewide environmental 15 

### organization that works to create a just future 16 

### where nature, communities, and the economy 17 

### thrive. We enforce environmental laws and 18 

### advocate for the transformation of public policy 19 

### and public opinion to restore and protect the 20 

### environment, safeguard public health, and reduce 21 

### the consequences of climate change within 2293

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### Pennsylvania and beyond. 1 

### As a native of the Northern Pittsburgh 2 

### area and a recent college graduate, I am 3 

### concerned about the future we're providing for 4 

### future generations. That said, I am grateful for 5 

### the opportunity to speak today on the Clean Power 6


### Plan. 7 

### As the third largest contributor to U.S. 8 

### carbon emissions, Pennsylvania has an important 9 

### role to play in the nation's reduction goals. 10 

### Carbon pollution from power plants is our 11 

### nation's bigger driver of climate change. 12 

### Fortunately, but not surprisingly, polling 13 

### demonstrates that Pennsylvania voters 14 

### overwhelmingly support the Clean Power Plan. 15 

### Citizens of the Commonwealth recognize that 16 

### coordinated action is necessary to mitigate the 17 

### impacts of climate change. 18 

### To that end, PennFuture was fortunate to 19 

### have the opportunity to accompany a diverse group 20 

### of Pennsylvanians on a trip to Washington, D.C., 21


### to advocate for the Clean Power Plan before 2294

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### lawmakers. Many of these folks will be offering 1 

### their own testimony here today. The group 2 

### included a clean energy advocate, a sportsman, a 3 

### labor leader, a clean air advocate, and a clean 4


### water advocate. 5 

### This visit was noteworthy because the 6 

### group of attendees highlighted the diversity of 7 

### perspectives that support the Clean Power Plan 8 

### and strong climate action here in Pennsylvania 9 

### and beyond. Participants delivered to elected 10 

### officials the message of the Clean Power Plan is 11 

### flexible and achievable, as the Commonwealth has 12 

### the opportunity to create its own customized plan 13 

### to reduce carbon pollution that is specific to 14 

### its unique situation. 15 

### To be sure, Pennsylvania is well 16 

### positioned to meet its carbon reduction goals 17 

### under the Clean Power Plan, all while becoming a 18 

### clean energy leader. 19 

### Pennsylvania is fortunate to be one of 20 

### the many states with a governor who intends to 21 

### submit a state implementation plan that takes 2295

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### into account Pennsylvania's unique situation. 1 

### The Wolf administration has done a tremendous job 2 

### in ensuring public participation in this process 3 

### by hosting a series of 14 listening sessions 4


### across the state as well as a 2-month comment 5 

### period on the Clean Power Plan. 6 

### For states that are unwilling to protect 7 

### public health from carbon pollution by meeting 8 

### reduction targets under the Clean Power Plan, the 9 

### federal implementation plan is a good backstop. 10 

### It's the ultimate backstop and the disincentive 11 

### for states that have no intention of submitting 12 

### their own plan. 13 

### While it's encouraging that the EPA is 14 

### serious about achieving compliance, even if 15 

### states don't want to cooperate, it's essential to 16 

### emphasize that Pennsylvania's best option is to 17 

### pursue a strong state implementation plan. 18 

### Pennsylvania is well positioned to draw its own 19 

### aggressive, flexible state implementation plan 20 

### that puts the Commonwealth on track for a zero 21 

### carbon energy future. 2296

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### While the federal implementation plan 1 

### can, and should, mirror some of the positive 2 

### elements of a strong state plan, amass a 3 

### trade-ready structure and clean energy 4 

### incentives, for example, we should be extremely 5 

### cautious to choose rigidity over flexibility. 6 

### History has shown what has happened when 7 

### we let others dictate our actions. The 8 

### Commonwealth's energy strategy over the last two 9 

### centuries has been dominated by extractive 10 

### industries that leave the state to clean up the 11 

### mess it's made. Pennsylvania must take advantage 12 

### of the opportunity to create its own state plan 13 

### that prioritizes a zero carbon energy sources 14 

### that don't harm our health or our climate. 15 

### Thank you. 16 

### [Applause.] 17 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18 

### DR. PARSONS: Good morning. I am 19 

### Margaret Parsons, P-a-r-s-o-n-s, and I am the 20 

### Healthy Air Campaign Coordinator for the American 21 

### Lung Association in Pennsylvania, which 2297

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### represents over 1.5 million people in the 1 

### Commonwealth who suffer from chronic lung disease 2 

### as well as the millions more who want to breathe 3 

### clean air and protect their health. 4 

### We thank Administrator Gina McCarthy and 5 

### the Environmental Protection Agency for the 6 

### opportunity to offer remarks on the proposed 7 

### federal implementation plan. We support the 8 

### essential step of reducing carbon emissions using 9 

### the standards set in the Clean Power Plan, and we 10 

### anticipate that states will be able to use the 11 

### recommendations in these plans to reduce carbon 12 

### emissions, even more than the plan requires. 13 

### Making progress to reduce carbon 14 

### pollution from power plans will help protect 15 

### public health and provide much needed state 16 

### leadership in combatting climate change. We 17 

### would like to focus on the following issues. 18 

### Health risks of climate change. The 19 

### changing climate threatens the health of 20

### Americans alive now and in the future 21 

### generations. Climate change is already affecting 2298

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### the health of citizens throughout the United 1 

### States. We urge EPA to act rapidly with real 2 

### measurable changes that can protect the health of 3



### everyone. 4 

### The risks we face are multiple and 5 

### profound. Over the past few years, we've seen 6 

### more and more evidence that these risks imperil 7 

### the lives and health of millions. Consequently, 8 

### the nation has a short window to act to reduce 9


### those threats. 10 

### Coal-fired power plants are the largest 11 

### single source of carbon pollution in the United 12 

### States. Scientists warn that the build-up of 13 

### carbon pollution will create warmer temperatures, 14 

### which will harm public health in various ways. 15 

### Carbon pollution contributes to climate change 16 

### and the warmer temperatures that fuel the 17 

### formation of ozone pollution. Nationwide, the 18 

### Clean Power Plan is expected to prevent up to 19 

### 90,000 asthma attacks and 3,600 premature deaths 20 

### each year starting in 2030. 21 

### Ground-level ozone is likely to be worse 2299

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### as a result of climate change. Ozone is a 1 

### serious respiratory irritant that can lead to 2 

### asthma attacks, hospital admissions, and 3 

### premature death. Extreme weather threatens 4 

### respiratory health. According to the National 5 

### Climate Assessment, Pennsylvania and the 6 

### Northeast can expect to see an increase in the 7 

### frequency, intensity, and duration of heatwaves 8 

### due to climate change, with many more days above 9 

### 90 degrees Fahrenheit than have been experienced 10 

### over the last 40 years. 11 

### The combination of heat, stress, and poor 12 

### air quality can pose a major health risk to 13 

### vulnerable groups: young children; the elderly; 14 

### and those with preexisting health conditions, 15 

### including asthma. The great news is that by 16 

### cutting carbon, we can reduce other toxic 17 

### pollutants that are harming us now. Life-saving 18 

### benefits to public health can begin immediately. 19 

### We encourage participation in the Clean 20 

### Energy Incentive Program. This program offers us 21 

### real opportunities to help improve the lives and 22100

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### health of citizens. We especially support using 1 

### CEIP to help our neighbors who have the fewest 2 

### resources. With this investment, states can 3 

### provide them with much needed help to cut their 4 

### energy use, lower their monthly energy bills, and 5 

### maybe even become part of the growing economy of 6 

### jobs that we'll need to install and maintain 7 

### these cleaner energy systems. 8 

### We support programs and policies to 9 

### significantly reduce demand for energy by 10 

### increasing the efficiency of U.S. homes and 11 

### businesses, strengthening appliance standards, 12 

### and reducing the energy consumption of consumer 13 

### products. We support incorporating energy 14 

### efficiency measures in every aspect of this plan, 15 

### which is crucial to helping us reduce carbon 16 

### pollution. 17 

### We support programs and policies that 18 

### encourage the development, deployment, and 19 

### integration of clean, non-combustion, alternative 20 

### technologies in all areas of our communities, in 21 

### homes, businesses, and industries, as well as the 22101

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### power sector. 1 

### We support increasing the use of the 2 

### cleanest energy sources, wind and solar. We find 3 

### the term "renewable energy" to be overly broad 4 

### for policymaking. Not all fuels labeled 5 

### "renewable" are equally good for our health. We 6 

### recommend expanding the use of solar and wind 7 

### power, not dirty air sources that burn fuels, 8 

### including wood or biomass, that produce 9 

### significant and dangerous air emissions and are 10 

### not close to being carbon neutral. This will 11 

### reduce emissions that trigger asthma attacks and 12 

### heart attacks, cause cancer, and shorten life. 13 

### We do not support the use of burning 14 

### wood, biomass or trash or solid waste. We are 15 

### pleased that the federal implementation plan will 16 

### not allow these fuel options and encourage EPA to 17 

### strengthen the model rule to eliminate them as 18


### well. 19 

### Thank you. 20 

### [Applause.] 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 22102

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### Before I call our next speakers, I'd like 1 

### to thank all the speakers who have come here 2 

### today to testify. Your testimony has been very 3 

### clear, very thoughtful, and very heartfelt, and 4 

### it's very important to EPA, so thank you all. 5 

### And I also want to thank the audience for 6 

### listening carefully and being so respectful of 7 

### all of our speakers. It's very much appreciated, 8 

### so thank you all. 9 

### I'd next like to call Daniel Doubet and 10 

### Kevin Stewart. Apologies for any 11 

### mispronunciation. 12 

### I will note my last name is often 13 

### mispronounced and sometimes misspelled, so -- 14 

### [Laughter.] 15 

### MR. DOUBET: Thank you again for hearing 16 

### all this testimony. My name is Daniel Doubet, 17 

### D-o-u-b-e-t, and I am a leader with Keystone 18 

### Progress based in Erie, Pennsylvania. 19 

### I'm originally from Crawford County, 20 

### Pennsylvania, and reside in Erie County today. 21 

### We're the region with the first oil wells in the 22103

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### western hemisphere, so I'm sorry about that. 1 

### So we've seen the boom and bust, and 2 

### mostly bust, from the dirty fuels industry and 3 

### many other industries as well. In fact, just 4 

### this week, the largest employer in Erie, 5 

### Pennsylvania, General Electric, just announced 6 

### they will lay off a third of their workforce. 7 

### So the Clean Power Plan is a great first 8 

### step, and I applaud you on that effort, but EPA 9 

### policy must protect community and decentralized 10 

### renewable power projects because in addition to 11 

### generating power sustainably, there is an 12 

### opportunity to generate sustainable jobs and 13 

### income for communities like mine. 14 

### I would like to share with you a story 15 

### from a Keystone Progress leader in Erie whose 16 

### names is Michael White: "In Erie, it can be hard 17 

### to find a job. I've been in and out of the 18 

### workforce facing layoffs almost my entire life of 19 

### 52 years. Just this week we found out that GE is 20 

### laying off a third of their workforce. This is 21 

### just the latest example of how big companies and 22104

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### big market forces can devastate a community like 1 

### mine. A job working to provide clean energy for 2 

### my town would be a great job that gave me 3 

### dignity, and I'd be providing an important 4 

### service to my community. Climate change advisors 5 

### say it would create 3.3 million jobs for people 6 

### like me, and renewable energy means renewable 7 

### income. So, as long as the sun is shining or the 8 

### wind blows, I'll have my livelihood." 9 

### And so the Clean Power Plan at its heart 10 

### is the goal is to build a healthy, sustainable, 11 

### and thriving community, and that's why we hope 12 

### the EPA will remove barriers to community 13 

### renewable energy projects or distributed 14 

### renewable energy generation in the federal 15 

### implementation plan and all models. 16 

### Instead of big energy companies 17 

### controlled by Wall Street investors and a top 1 18 

### percent of income earners, community-controlled 19 

### energy projects build wealth for struggling 20 

### workers, families, and communities. 21 

### And so, in closing, I'll just say that 22105

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### the EPA is trying to do the right thing, and I 1 

### applaud that, and I am excited by it. And 2 

### they're doing well by the environment, but you 3 

### can put people and planet first by making sure 4 

### that these projects are controlled and that we 5 

### have -- and that we are able to provide the 6 

### protections for community-based energy projects. 7 

### So I thank you for your time. 8 

### [Applause.] 9 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 10 

### MR. STEWART: Good morning. I thank the 11 

### panel for your work here today. I am Kevin 12 

### Stewart, S-t-e-w-a-r-t. I serve as Director of 13 

### Environmental Health for the American Lung 14

### Association, the Mid-Atlantic. 15 

### And since you have already heard from Dr. 16 

### Parsons in her testimony on behalf of the 17

### American Lung Association in Pennsylvania, 18 

### essentials -- many of our positions with respect 19 

### to the Clean Power Plan, I will not revisit all 20 

### of them, though they may be covered in the 21 

### written testimony I have provided you. 22106

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### The EPA should also expect to receive 1 

### from our national office, detailed written 2 

### comments on the proposed rule, including on the 3 

### model plan. 4 

### The American Lung Association of the 5 

### Mid-Atlantic has championed the Environmental 6 

### Protection Agency's efforts to set strong carbon 7 

### pollution standards for both new and existing 8 

### power plants and applauds those state 9 

### administrations that have committed to work to 10 

### make the promise of the Clean Power Plan a 11 

### reality. 12 

### And with respect to the proposed rule, we 13 

### emphasize the following. We support the Clean 14 

### Power Plan because it will reduce carbon and 15 

### other air pollutants that cause asthma attacks, 16 

### heart attacks, and premature death. We strongly 17 

### advocate that the final Clean Power Plan rule be 18 

### strong enough to achieve the health benefits EPA 19 

### has estimated for it to produce by 2030. 20 

### Many communities of color and low income 21 

### face higher risks from air pollution and climate 22107

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### change. Polluting power plants often are located 1 

### near where many people in these communities live 2 

### and work. We've heard this today. 3 

### Frequently, individuals in these 4 

### communities already have a history of prior 5 

### exposure to toxic emissions such as arsenic, 6 

### lead, and carcinogens such as benzene, and for 7 

### many reasons, people in such at-risk communities 8 

### also face a greater underlying burden of lung 9 

### disease, making them even more vulnerable to 10 

### these pollutants. 11 

### As the EPA has begun to do, policymaking 12 

### officials at all levels should even more strongly 13 

### reach out to citizens and leaders in 14 

### disproportionately vulnerable communities, 15 

### including those with high rates of asthma and 16 

### other lung diseases, to engage them in ensuring 17 

### that EPA's model plans truly address 18 

### environmental injustice and in developing the 19 

### eventual state or federal implementation plans. 20 

### We are concerned the carbon trading risks 21 

### leaving parts of the population we serve bearing 22108

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### the burden for others, and therefore, we 1 

### recommend that the EPA take steps to ensure that 2 

### reductions in carbon emissions be secured from 3 

### all sources lacking reasonable controls, rather 4 

### than by means of an emissions trading mechanism 5 

### that would allow many facilities to continue to 6 

### remain inefficient and highly polluting. 7 

### We are glad that EPA is aware of the 8 

### potential for a state to claim to be meeting its 9 

### requirements under the Clean Power Plan while the 10 

### actual emissions reductions it claims fail to 11 

### materialize on the global carbon balance sheet, a 12 

### problem known as leakage. Indeed, because this 13 

### work is being done in the context of a planetary 14 

### crisis, all carbon emission reductions must be 15 

### demonstrated to occur from a global perspective 16 

### and without delay in order to be claimed for 17 

### credit toward Clean Power Plan budgets. 18 

### Harold Wimmer, our national president and 19 

### CEO, has remarked, "Carbon pollution that is 20 

### driving climate change poses a current and 21 

### growing threat to lung health and public safety. 22109

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### The Clean Power Plan is a tremendous step forward 1 

### in the United States fight against carbon 2 

### pollution. It will bring not only long-term, but 3 

### immediate health benefits to the American people. 4 

### Despite this, multiple challenges have filed 5 

### lawsuits to delay or block the plan, and they 6 

### seek to thwart the much needed clean-up of carbon 7 

### pollution from the power sector, the largest 8 

### contributor to climate change in the nation. 9 

### But the evidence is clear. Climate 10 

### change and carbon pollution threaten the health 11 

### of millions of Americans, and that's why the 12

### American Lung Association has committed to and is 13 

### taking steps to defend the Clean Power Plan 14 

### against its opponents, and that's why we continue 15 

### to urge governors to maximize the public health 16 

### benefits of the Clean Power Plan as they develop 17 

### their implementation plans. And that's why we 18 

### encourage the Environmental Protection Agency to 19 

### adopt the strongest, enforceable rules that will 20 

### achieve meaningful reductions in carbon pollution 21 

### and thereby achieving many health co-benefits. 22110

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### Thank you. 1 

### [Applause.] 2 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 3 

### I would next like to call Alison Steele 4 

### and Elizabeth Kerr. 5 

### MS. STEELE: Good morning, and thank you 6 

### for the opportunity to testify today regarding 7 

### the federal implementation plan. My name is 8 

### Alison Steele. That's A-l-i-s-o-n, S-t-e-e-l-e. 9 

### I am a Pennsylvania native, and I've been a 10 

### Pittsburgh resident for the past 6 years since 11 

### hearing my MBA in sustainability at Duquesne 12 

### University. 13 

### I am speaking this morning as the manager 14 

### of Community Programs and Advocacy at 15 

### Conservation Consultants, Inc., in Pittsburgh. 16 

### CCI was founded in 1978 as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit 17 

### organization with the purpose of promoting 18 

### responsible energy and resource use in the 19 

### residential sector. Serving a variety of clients 20 

### throughout Western Pennsylvania, from utility 21 

### companies to home owners, our mission is to 22111

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### educate energy users about the benefits of energy 1 

### efficiency and to assist in home weatherization. 2 

### Our services make homes healthier and more 3 

### affordable for their residents, while at the same 4 

### time reducing their impact on the environment. 5 

### I also serve on the board of the Keystone 6 

### Energy Efficiency Alliance, KEEA, which 7 

### represents 50 member organizations statewide and 8 

### advocates on behalf of energy efficiency and 9 

### advanced energy professionals at the local, 10 

### state, and federal levels. In Pennsylvania 11 

### alone, this group consists of over 4,200 12 

### businesses, employing over 57,000 workers. 13 

### CCI and KEEA applaud the EPA for holding 14 

### these hearings throughout the country and 15 

### providing opportunities for stakeholder feedback, 16 

### thus ensuring a quick start and an open process 17 

### in developing the federal implementation plan. 18 

### We have more detailed feedback, which we will 19 

### submit in writing, but given the limited time 20 

### today, we will use this speaking opportunity to 21 

### provide a more concise testimony. 22112

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### The final version of the Clean Power Plan 1 

### does not list demand-side energy efficiency as a 2 

### building block among the methods of missions 3 

### reduction. However, we encourage the EPA to 4 

### promote and incorporate energy efficiency as a 5 

### key component of the federal implementation plan. 6 

### Energy efficiency represents the cleanest, 7 

### cheapest, and fastest method of missions 8 

### reduction. The benefits of demand-side energy 9 

### efficiency include reduce energy cost for 10 

### consumers, reduced demand on the grid, job 11 

### creation, workforce development, improved health 12 

### of our citizens and our environment, and a 13 

### significant step toward reaching our emissions 14 

### reduction goals under the Clean Power Plan. 15 

### As we look toward energy sources of the 16 

### future, natural gas is described as a bridge 17 

### fuel. To extend the bridge metaphor, we need to 18 

### consider what will be on the other side of the 19 

### bridge, and that's energy efficiency and 20 

### renewable generation. In order to ensure that 21 

### this bridge leads somewhere, we need to start 22113

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### building the infrastructure for energy efficiency 1 

### and renewable energy now. The Clean Power Plan 2 

### can provide the opportunity for developing these 3 

### options. 4 

### For communities at financial risk, there 5 

### is concern that actions taken under the Clean 6 

### Power Plan will drive up energy rates and impact 7 

### jobs. However, participation in the Clean Energy 8 

### Incentive Program can serve as a protection 9 

### against those risks. The CEIP provides an 10 

### opportunity to benefit from early action, earning 11 

### credits for renewable energy generation and 12 

### energy efficiency in low-income areas. 13 

### The provisions for renewable energy 14 

### development and low-income community support will 15 

### enable regions currently heavy in conventional 16 

### fuel-related jobs to transition to green-collar 17 

### advanced energy jobs. We recommend the EPA 18 

### include options for early action in the CEIP with 19 

### start dates set as early as possible to avoid any 20 

### delays in energy efficiency or renewable energy 21 

### projects that would otherwise have been rolled 22114

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### out sooner. 1 

### The need for energy efficiency services 2 

### is clear. The operation of buildings in which we 3 

### live and work in this country accounts for 39 4 

### percent of our total energy consumption. 5 

### Residential buildings account for over half of 6


### that number. 7 

### There's a need to improve the performance 8 

### of our existing buildings through weatherization 9 

### and other upgrades. That demand calls for a 10 

### well-developed workforce of architects, 11 

### engineers, auditors, and contractors who can 12 

### incorporate the principles of energy efficiency 13 

### into high-performance buildings. 14 

### In order to provide a standardized method 15 

### of evaluation for building energy efficiency, we 16 

### recommend the EPA consider adopting a framework 17 

### such as the Department of Energy's Home Energy 18 

### Score, which provides an asset-based, 19 

### miles-per-gallon-type score indicating the extent 20 

### to which a home can be considered energy 21 

### efficient. 22115

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### Once again, we thank you for the 1 

### opportunity to submit this commentary in support 2 

### of energy efficiency as the cleanest, cheapest, 3 

### and fastest method of compliance with the Clean 4 

### Power Plan. We encourage the EPA to recognize 5 

### demand-side energy efficiency as the best system 6 

### of emissions reduction and to establish it as the 7 

### first method of emissions reduction within the 8 

### federal implementation plan. 9 

### Thank you. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. And the name of 11 

### your organization again? 12 

### MS. STEELE: Sorry? 13 

### MR. KOERBER: The name of your 14 

### organization? 15 

### MS. STEELE: Conservation Consultants, 16


### Inc. 17 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18 

### MS. KERR: Hello. My name is Elizabeth 19 

### Kerr. That's E-l-i-z-a-b-e-t-h. My last name is 20 

### Kerr, K-e-r-r. Thank you for fitting me in 21 

### today. 22116

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### I lead Communications and Policy at 1 

### Business Forward, a trade association that works 2 

### with tens of thousands of business leaders from 3 

### around the country, and last year when the EPA 4 

### issued its draft cost estimates for the Clean 5 

### Power Plan, we published a report examining how 6 

### the proposed carbon standards we're talking about 7 

### here today will affect electricity costs for 8 

### manufacturers, and those studies' authors include 9 

### Jim Doyle, Business Forward's president; Kim 10 

### Hill; Deborah Manke; and Richard Wallace. And 11 

### they all have decades of experience performing 12 

### business analysis in the manufacturing industry. 13 

### Critics argue that the new EPA standards 14 

### will cause American manufacturers to shut down 15 

### their U.S. factories, but if you take into 16 

### consideration what manufacturers actually spend 17 

### on electricity and how that spending relates to 18 

### the rest of their budgets, you will find that 19 

### projected rate increases will have a very small 20 

### impact on manufacturers' bottom lines. 21 

### Electricity represents less than 1 22117

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### percent of a manufacturer's total costs. That 1 

### average is taken across 19 industries. 2 

### We issued in an initial report last year 3


### when EPA released the draft Clean Power Plan 4 

### rule, and the agency's associated projected rates 5 

### indicated that electricity prices would rise 6 

### about 6 percent by 2020. And that means that the 7 

### average industry's total cost would rise less 8 

### than .06 percent, if you compare that to that 9 

### less-than-1-percent figure. 10 

### And today I can report that our updated 11 

### calculations based on the new cost projections 12 

### associated with the final Clean Power Plan rule 13 

### find that the industry's total cost would rise 14 

### less than .029 percent, since EPA's reduced its 15 

### prediction of electricity rate increases to 3.2 16 

### percent. In other words, a part that costs a 17 

### manufacturer $100 would increase less than 3 18 

### cents as a result of changes in electricity rates 19 

### due to CPP-related policy and market effects. 20 

### The strategy employed by EPA to reduce 21 

### carbon emissions is common among experts who 22118

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### propose climate change solutions. Risky 1 

### Business, an economic-minded organization 2 

### dedicated to addressing climate change, founded 3 

### and led by business leaders Hank Paulson, Michael 4 

### Bloomberg, and Tom Steyer, suggest promoting 5 

### energy policies and encourage producing 100 6 

### percent of the nation's energy from non-carbon 7 

### sources by 2015. 8 

### A study released this week by ICF 9 

### International and NextGen America suggest 10 

### policies that require 50 percent of electricity 11 

### to come from non-carbon sources by 2030. So the 12 

### EPA's more modest policy suggest a reduction of 13 

### 32 percent by 2005 levels is comparable to about 14 

### 40 percent of all power generated from power 15 

### plants coming from non-carbon sources. 16 

### And extensive research suggests that all 17 

### of these targets are feasible and will boost 18

### America's economic competitiveness. In fact, the 19 

### ICF report finds that adopting targets like 50 by 20 

### 2030 would increase hundreds of thousands of 21 

### jobs, increase household income, and boost GDP. 22119

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### Meanwhile, hundreds of business leaders around 1 

### the country who have attended our Business 2 

### Forward briefings have expressed grave concerns 3 

### about the possible economic outcomes if we do 4 

### nothing to address climate change. 5 

### Our research backs these stories that we 6 

### hear from business leaders every single day. 7 

### Supply chains represent about 60 percent of a 8 

### manufacturer's cost. That is 60 times more than 9 

### electricity costs. Over the past 4 years, 10

### American factories have been disrupted by 11 

### typhoons in Thailand, hurricanes in the Gulf of 12 

### Mexico, droughts in Texas, tornadoes in Kentucky, 13 

### and falling water levels across the Great Lakes. 14 

### This is part of a wave of severe weather that 15 

### from 2011 to 2013 cost our economy more than $200 16 

### billion. 17 

### Cargo ships crossing Great Lakes are 18 

### carrying less cargo to avoid running aground. 19 

### Ports are preparing for more hurricanes. 20 

### Highways and bridges are subject to more frequent 21 

### delays, and cargo train cars detoured during the 22120

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### 2013 winter storms took months to arrive at their 1 

### destinations. 2 

### Together, these events are shutting down 3 

### or slowing down plants for hours, days, and 4 

### sometimes weeks at a time, and this is actually 5 

### quite new. Manufacturing plants across all 6 

### industries have experienced four unexpected 7 

### disruptions each year on average. These have 8 

### cost them about 20 hours of total downtime per 9 

### year, and these are typically caused by equipment 10 

### failures, power outages, the absence of key 11 

### personnel, and severe weather. But with this 12 

### increase in frequency and intensity of severe 13 

### weather, the production delays are also 14 

### increasing. 15 

### An auto plant in Indiana that rarely lost 16 

### production due to severe weather lost 4 days in 17 

### the winter of 2013 alone. 18 

### Leading employers here in Pittsburgh have 19 

### begun reporting these risks to their 20 

### stockholders. Floods in Thailand, 4 years ago, 21 

### severely disrupted factories that supplied PPG's 22121

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### optical business. U.S. Steel has explained that 1 

### lower water levels in the Great Lakes could 2 

### increase shipping costs, and Heinz depends on the 3 

### global crop of tomatoes grown in the U.S., 4 

### Portugal, Australia, and Canada. And as we all 5 

### know, much of America's tomatoes come from 6 

### California, which is experiencing historic 7 

### drought. 8 

### To appreciate what climate change could 9 

### do to manufacturers, it helps to point out that 10 

### supply chains are growing bigger, more 11 

### specialized, and more global and incredibly fast. 12 

### These very characteristics that make them more 13 

### efficient also make them more interdependent, and 14 

### that interdependence is what makes severe weather 15 

### such a big deal. 16 

### Just-in-time inventory practices can 17 

### reduce a factory's space needs by 80 percent and 18 

### cut its labor cost by as much as half, but just 19 

### in time also means that your plant operates with 20 

### only several hours of parts inventory on your 21 

### site. So if supply trucks are delayed more than 22122

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### a few hours, your plant shuts down. 1 

### Having a global supply chain means that 2 

### your factories here in Pittsburgh can be affected 3 

### when one of your suppliers in Thailand is flooded 4 

### or when the Port of New York/New Jersey is slowed 5 

### down by East Coast hurricanes. 6 

### Because the Midwestern U.S. is host to 22 7 

### auto assembly plants, an example from that 8 

### industry is useful. Assembly plants are massive, 9 

### with thousands of employees and several hundred 10 

### suppliers working together to produce about 11 

### 300,000 vehicles a year. Each hour of 12 

### weather-related shutdowns can cost an assembly 13 

### plant $1.25 million or more in lost production. 14


### That's each hour. 15 

### By comparison, the cost of electricity 16 

### rates to that plant is modest. An auto assembly 17 

### plant currently spends about $60 on electricity 18 

### per car that it assembles. If that plant 19 

### produces 300,000 vehicles a year and rates rise 20 

### 3.2 percent, as EPA projects, the increase of the 21 

### plant's annual electricity-related cost is far 22123

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### less, probably about half actually, than the cost 1 

### of losing just 1 hour of production due to severe 2


### weather. 3 

### So, in conclusion, careful study of 4 

### business data shows that severe weather is far 5 

### more expensive to America's manufacturers than 6 

### the cost associated with the EPA standards to 7 

### reduce climate change. 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 10 

### [Applause.] 11 

### MR. KOERBER: Next, I'd like to call Ray 12 

### Robertson [sic] and Mindy Comangane, and if I 13 

### mispronounce it that poorly, I'll just spell it, 14 

### C-o-m-a-n-g-a-n-e. 15 

### [No audible response.] 16 

### MR. KOERBER: No, not here? 17 

### MR. ROBERTS: Okay. 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Robertson, you're 19 

### flying solo? 20


### MR. ROBERTS: It's "Mr. Roberts." You 21 

### were worried about mispronouncing her name. You 22124

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### got -- that's okay. So my name is Ray Roberts, 1 

### and I support the EPA in taking its action 2 

### through the Clean Power Plan to address our 3 

### climate crisis because some action is better than 4 

### on action. 5 

### Climate scientists are warning us that 6 

### the EPA's targets for CO2

### reduction are far too 7 

### low. How fast do we need to change? Well, 8 

### climate science also tells us that there is a 9 

### window of time where our actions today can still 10 

### prevent the worst of the climate disasters down 11 

### the road, but exactly how big our time window 12 

### range is, that's uncertain. It depends on human 13 

### variables like how strong the EPA rules are. 14 

### So, first, I call on the EPA to raise the 15 

### requirements on reducing carbon dioxide and other 16 

### greenhouse gases in order to more accurately 17 

### address the scale and the urgency of our climate 18 

### crisis. 19


### I'm also here to thank the EPA for 20 

### listening to multiple testimonies, including mine 21 

### last year, that called for a carbon fee and 22125

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### dividend at the state level to become an allowed 1 

### means for states to follow your rules. 2 

### On page 899 of the Clean Power Plan, you 3 

### did indicate that it is one way that states could 4 

### comply. That one page out of a 1,560-page 5 

### document seems to indicate just how much simpler 6 

### it would be for states to use instead of a rate 7 

### or mass-based cap-and-trade market. 8 

### So, second, in your amendments to the 9 

### Clean Power Plan, please spell it out. I ask 10 

### that you make an explicit comparison between the 11 

### simplicity of a rising carbon fee where all the 12 

### money could be returned to citizens and compare 13 

### that with the complexity of a cap-and-trade 14 

### marketplace. 15 

### Third, I ask that you compare how a 16 

### carbon fee and dividend could satisfy multiple 17 

### Clean Power Plan rules by adding more than one 18 

### greenhouse gas that the EPA is regulating. 19 

### Fourth, I am asking you to explain in 20 

### detail how a state would use modeling of their 21 

### carbon fee and dividend that would satisfy your 22126

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### rules to reduce greenhouse gas pollutants. 1 

### Please break it down. Spell it out. Problems 2 

### with the EPA rules promoting cap and trade should 3 

### be explicitly laid out in these amendments. 4 

### Fifth, cap and trade can be extremely 5 

### complex and very costly to set up. Cap and trade 6 

### can be regressive. It can cost the poorest 7 

### people the most, as short-term energy costs rise 8 

### before they are expected to fall after a few 9



### years. 10 

### And seventh, cap and trade has a history, 11 

### has a demonstrated history of being both 12 

### corrupted and gamed. A carbon tax without a 13 

### dividend can also be regressive. I need for you 14 

### to study recent research by resources for the 15 

### future that compares how different carbon tax 16 

### methods affect the economy. 17 

### I am convinced that the very best methods 18 

### of applying a carbon tax clearly use a dividend 19 

### to all citizens because the people most affected 20 

### by rising cost of greenhouse gas pollution are 21 

### the poor and middle class. Carbon fee and 22127

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### dividend is simple, transparent, and with a 1 

### dividend, it can resolve any regressive problems. 2 

### These are things that states need to know that 3 

### they can use to comply with the Clean Power Plan 4


### rules. 5 

### Please use these amendments to raise the 6 

### bar. Make your rules have a larger impact to 7 

### really make a difference on our planet's climate, 8 

### and please use these amendments to make explicit 9 

### comparisons between cap and trade and what 10 

### economists tell us would be better, a carbon fee 11 

### that provides a dividend equally to all. 12 

### Please use these amendments to compare in 13 

### detail specific problems with using cap and trade 14 

### versus an alternative like a carbon fee with a 15 

### dividend. 16 

### Thank you. 17 

### [Applause.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 19 

### Is Mindy Comangane in the room? 20 

### [No audible response.] 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. If not, we will move 22128

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### on to Perry Recker and Philip Angert. 1 

### MR. RECKER: I'm Mr. Perry Recker, and 2 

### I'm also here with the Citizens Climate Lobby, 3 

### and I just represent a subgroup in District -- PA 4 

### District 18, Congressional District 18. 5 

### So I'm here just to say the same things 6 

### that Mr. Roberts just said. I'm not going to 7 

### take up your time by reading that again. I just 8 

### want to add my voice from a different area of the 9 

### region, okay? Thank you. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Thank you for being 11 

### here, sir. 12 

### MR. ANGERT: My name is Philip Angert, 13 

### with one "l," A-n-g-e-r-t. I'm here with the 14 

### Sierra Club. 15 

### Coal mining has a long and a proud 16 

### history in the United States. For decades, 17 

### miners have endured the deadly dangers of working 18 

### underground from black lung disease, mine 19 

### collapse. Living in company towns, brutal mine 20 

### owners that have used the government law 21 

### enforcement personnel and private agencies like 22129

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### the Pinkertons to harass, beat, and even kill 1 

### miners when they went out on strike for better 2 

### living conditions and decent wages. 3 

### Coal miners have provided the fuel to 4 

### heat our homes and businesses, the energy to our 5 

### factories. Provided the coke to make power, our 6 

### steel mills have given us -- give us the metal to 7 

### build America and also fight against foreign 8 

### powers and dictators in both World Wars and 9 

### numerous other conflicts around the world, giving 10 

### us the freedoms we now enjoy. 11 

### Miners have been a key strength in the 12 

### union movement in this country that fought long 13 

### and hard to win OSHA protections, unemployment 14 

### compensation, and minimum wage laws for working 15

### Americans, as well as welfare, Medicare, and 16 

### Social Security that so many people with 17 

### disabilities, children, and the elderly depend on 18 

### to live their lives with dignity they deserve as 19 

### citizens of the richest country in the world. 20 

### Losing coal mining jobs is something I do 21 

### not want to see, but since the 1970s, scientists 22130

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### have been warning us about the effects of human 1 

### activity on our planet such as 2 

### chlorofluorocarbons, CFCs, destroying the Earth's 3 

### protective ozone layer and greenhouse gases 4 

### disrupting our climate. 5 

### Politicians have pretended to be 6 

### scientists and refuted these theories. 7 

### Corporations have covered up their own research 8 

### results that agree with these theories. This has 9 

### resulted in an action by our citizens and 10 

### government to take the small steps needed to 11 

### prevent gross climate change and avert the need 12 

### for more drastic measures. 13 

### Now the evidence of climate change is 14 

### making use: melting glaciers, polar ice caps 15 

### melting, stronger storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, 16 

### and typhoons, and the hottest month in history 17 

### this past July. They're all providing 18 

### irrefutable evidence that we are the victims of 19 

### the climate change that was predicted 40 years 20


### ago. 21 

### If climate change is not dealt with now 22131

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### and averted, the results will be rising sea 1 

### levels flooding coastal cities, famine, hunger, 2 

### and war on an unprecedented scale. Starving 3 

### people will kill for food. 4 

### We cannot be shortsighted in this 5 

### situation. We must, like some Native Americans, 6 

### think seven generations ahead. We must consider 7 

### the world we live in, the world that we will 8 

### leave to our grandchildren and the children of 9 

### their grandchildren, seven generations. We've 10 

### been too lax for too long. We must act now to 11 

### prevent disasters far worse than we have seen to 12 

### this date. Bold steps must be taken to prevent 13 

### catastrophe. 14 

### Unfortunately, the burning of natural 15 

### gas, petroleum products, and coal is the main 16 

### cause of our current situation. Again, I am 17 

### proud of our coal miners' heritage and do not 18 

### want our current generations of miners to lose 19 

### their jobs, but we must take action now and 20 

### switch to energy conservation, renewable energy 21 

### sources, and provide good-wage green energy jobs 22132

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### to the displaced miners, so that our children and 1 

### the children of their grandchildren, seven 2 

### generations, inherit a world that all humans can 3 

### survive in with the peace, prosperity, and 4 

### freedoms we wish to bestow upon them. 5 

### The EPA has made huge strides towards 6 

### these ends with the Clean Power Plan. 7 

### Implementation of this plan will promote the 8 

### health and save the lives of thousands in the 9 

### near future and save countless lives in 10 

### generations to come. 11 

### We're grateful to the EPA for taking 12 

### these bold steps. Thank you. 13 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 14 

### [Applause.] 15 

### MR. KOERBER: Do we have anybody else in 16 

### the room who has signed up to testify today? 17 

### [No audible response.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We're at 11:45, and 19 

### I propose we just hold for 5 more minutes and see 20 

### if anybody else shows up who has registered to 21 

### give testimony. If nobody shows up in the next 5 22133

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### minutes, then we will break for lunch, but we'll 1 

### just pause for 5 minutes and then see where we're 2


### at. 3 

### [Pause.] 4 

### MR. KOERBER: I said we'd wait 5 minutes. 5 

### We'd been 6. Why don't we wait 4 more minutes 6 

### because we do have speakers registered to testify 7 

### at 11:50 and 11:55, so out of courtesy for the 8 

### 11:55 speaker, in case that person shows up, we 9 

### will wait for them. If they're not here at 10 

### 11:55, we'll adjourn at that point. Thank you. 11 

### [Pause.] 12 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We're at 11:55. Our 13 

### registered speakers have not shown up, so we will 14 

### take a break for lunch. We will re-adjourn at 1 15 

### p.m. promptly. Thank you all for being here this 16 

### morning. Thank you. 17 

### [Luncheon recess taken from 11:56 a.m. to 18 

### 1 p.m.] 19 

### MR. KOERBER: Well, good afternoon. It's 20 

### one o'clock. We'll get started in just a minute 21 

### or two. I'm waiting for them to send up the note 22134

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### cards that has the list of speakers for this 1


### afternoon. 2 

### [Pause.] 3


### MR. KOERBER: Good afternoon. Welcome to 4 

### today's public hearing on EPA's proposed federal 5 

### plan and model rules for Clean Power Plan. My 6 

### name is Mike Koerber. I'm with EPA's 7 

### Headquarters' Air Office. Joining me on the 8 

### panel today are Meg Victor and Brian Keaveny, 9 

### also with EPA's Headquarter Air Office; and David 10 

### Tally with EPA's Regional Air Office in 11 

### Philadelphia. 12 

### Again, we're here to listen to your 13 

### comments on EPA's proposed federal plan and model 14 

### rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 15 

### existing power plants. 16

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 17 

### largest source of United States carbon dioxide 18 

### emissions, or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 19 

### percent of U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. 20 

### Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 21 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 22135

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### climate change and providing a more certain 1 

### future for our environment, our health, and 2 

### future generations. 3 

### On October 23rd, the EPA published in the 4 

### Federal Register its proposed federal plan to 5 

### implement emission guidelines for power plants 6 

### under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The 7 

### proposed federal plan will achieve the same level 8 

### of emissions performance as required of state 9 

### plans under the Clean Power Plan. Federal plans 10 

### will be finalized only for those states with 11 

### affected power plants that the EPA determines 12 

### have failed to submit an approvable state plan by 13 

### the relevant deadlines set in the emission 14 

### guidelines. 15 

### In those states where a federal plan may 16 

### be required, this plan will implement the same 17 

### emissions guidelines for affected power plants 18 

### outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It would not 19 

### require additional control requirements or impose 20 

### additional costs. 21 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 22136

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### for a particular state, that state will still be 1 

### able to submit a plan which, if approved, will 2 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 3 

### federal plan. States may take delegation of 4 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 5 

### order to become the primary implementers or 6 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 7 

### the implementation of a portion of a federal 8 

### plan. States operating under a federal plan may 9 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 10 

### to facilitate compliance and lower cost to the 11 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 12 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 13 

### for those states that are developing their own 14 

### state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 15 

### rate-based and mass-spaced model trading rules in 16 

### Summer 2016. A state program that adheres to the 17 

### model trading rule provisions, when final, would 18 

### be presumptively approvable.There are 19 

### stand-alone portions in the model trading rules, 20 

### such as the evaluation, measurement, and 21 

### verification procedures for emission rate credits 22137

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### that would be approvable even if a state adopted 1 

### an approach that differs in other respects from 2


### the model rule. 3 

### Also, the proposal contains a finding 4 

### that it is necessary or appropriate to implement 5 

### a Section 111(d) federal plan for affected power 6 

### plants located in Indian Country. 7


### CO2

### emission performance rates for these 8 

### facilities were finalized in the Clean Power 9


### Plan. 10 

### The proposal also contains information on 11 

### how the EPA will reach out to communities 12 

### throughout the comment period and an overview of 13 

### the actions that the EPA is taking to ensure that 14 

### vulnerable communities are not being 15 

### disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking. 16 

### If you would like more details on the 17 

### proposed rules, there are fact sheets available 18 

### at the registration desk downstairs. 19 

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 20 

### through a few housekeeping items. First, please 21 

### be sure that you have checked in at the 22138

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### registration desk, even if you are not planning 1 

### to speak today, and if you signed up to speak 2 

### online or by phone but haven't told us that 3 

### you're here, please step out to the registration 4 

### desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 5 

### arrived. 6 

### Second, please put and keep your phones 7 

### on vibrate. 8 

### And finally, please be respectful of all 9 

### of our speakers today. We want to hear from 10 

### everyone who has signed up to speak, and I ask 11 

### that you all listen quietly and patiently while 12 

### they give their testimony. 13 

### All right. Here's how today's hearing 14 

### will work. I will call up speakers in pairs. 15 

### When your name is called, please come to the 16 

### speakers table at the front of the room, up here. 17 

### When I call on you to speak, please state your 18 

### name and spell your name. Your comments will be 19 

### transcribed and included in the record of 20 

### comments on the proposed rule. 21 

### Each speaker will have 5 minutes. We 22139

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### have a timer light to help you know how much time 1 

### you have left to speak. That's on the table up 2 

### front. When the light turns from green to 3 

### yellow, that means you have 1 minute remaining. 4 

### When it turns red, that means you're at 5 minutes 5 

### and it's time to wrap up. 6 

### When you are finished speaking, please 7 

### remain at the table until the next person has 8 

### completed their testimony. I will then call up 9 

### the next pair of speakers and so on. 10 

### This is your time. We are here to listen 11 

### to you today, and the panel members may be asking 12 

### you a few questions at the end of your testimony 13 

### to clarify your comments. If you've brought a 14 

### written copy of your testimony, please give it to 15 

### the staff at the registration desk before you 16


### leave. 17 

### We will put any written comments 18 

### submitted today in the official docket for the 19 

### proposed rule. 20 

### We also have comment cards available at 21 

### the registration desk if you'd like to submit 22140

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### additional written comments today. If you want 1 

### to comment in writing later, stop by the table 2 

### near the registration desk and pick up a copy of 3 

### the instructions for submitting written comments. 4 

### Comments must be received by January 21st. Let 5 

### me assure you that EPA gives just as much 6 

### consideration to comments we receive in writing 7 

### as we do comments we receive at public hearings 8 

### like this. So, if you have more comments that 9 

### you'd like to provide, please submit them by the 10 

### comment period deadline, January 21st. Your 11 

### comments are greatly appreciated, and they will 12 

### all be reviewed. 13 

### Finally, if you have questions throughout 14 

### the day, please see the staff at the registration 15 

### desk, and someone will assist you. 16 

### Thanks again for being here, for taking 17 

### time to share your comments with EPA, and it's 18 

### time to get started. 19 

### So I'll start off by calling the first 20 

### two speakers after lunch, Mark Dixon and Taryn 21


### Jones. 22141

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### MS. JONES: Hello. My name is Taryn 1 

### Jones, T-a-r-y-n, J-o-n-e-s. Good afternoon, I 2 

### am here proudly representing Detroit, Michigan; 3 

### Michigan United; and National People's Action. 4 

### I support a Clean Power Plan to protect 5 

### communities that represent people of color. You 6 

### must impose a plan that reduces pollution in 7 

### communities of color and invest in renewable 8 

### clean energy. 9 

### Let me ask you a few questions. How many 10 

### days have you or your child missed from work or 11 

### school because you had an asthma attack? How 12 

### much money do you pay your energy company a month 13 

### and yet still not have a zero balance? 14 

### Personally, I have missed countless days 15 

### of schools and activities because I myself have 16 

### dealt with severe asthma and chronic bronchitis. 17 

### Now, I wasn't born with these conditions. 18 

### Rather, they developed during the '90s. 19 

### Fact. Air pollution is horrifying 20 

### expensive to families. The average 21 

### asthma-related hospitalization costs about $235 22142

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### per visit. There were 841 hospitalizations in 1 

### Michigan in 2010 due to local coal-related asthma 2 

### attacks along, for a total cost of about $200,000 3


### for those who suffered the attacks. 4 

### Do you know what it feels like to walk 5 

### outside and feel like you're going to die because 6 

### you're gasping for air that's so smog-filled? 7 

### There isn't enough oxygen per cubic inch to 8 

### breathe. It sends you into a panic state. It 9 

### makes you aware of a frightening reality. I 10 

### could die if I don't get help. 11 

### Fact. Michigan is one of the 25 12 

### smoggiest states in the U.S. In 2010, there were 13 

### 14 days when the air was unhealthy to breathe due 14 

### to smog pollution. Exposure to smog pollution 15 

### damages lung tissue, decreases the ability to 16 

### breathe, and exacerbates chronic diseases like 17 

### asthma. These effects are especially harmful for 18 

### children and the elderly. 19 

### Do you know what it's like to go day 20 

### after day to the emergency room for albuterol 21 

### breathing treatments and inhalers? Because you 22143

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### can't afford a machine at home, and you can't 1 

### afford an inhaler that costs at least $100 2 

### apiece. That's me. 3 

### Fact. About 144,000 children suffer from 4 

### pediatric asthma in Michigan. Their chronic 5 

### condition is worsened by polluted air, causing 6 

### them to miss school and making it more difficult 7 

### for them to play. 8 

### I watched my little cousin gain 70 pounds 9 

### in the last 7 years due to steroids for asthma. 10

### As much as a lively child as he is, he was forced 11 

### to miss out on things like playing basketball or 12 

### football or running track because he could 13 

### potentially die out there on that field. What 14 

### type of life is that for a child? 15 

### Fact. Air pollution in Michigan is 16 

### heartbreaking, literally. Pollution from 17 

### coal-fired power plants was responsible for 1,114 18 

### heart attacks and 329 additional hospitalizations 19 

### for cardiac problems. 20 

### My elderly mother suffers from congestive 21 

### heart failure. I can't move out of her home 22144

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### because of the fear that her lungs will fill up 1 

### with fluid and there will be no one there to help 2 

### her and get her to a hospital to save her life. 3 

### Worry and stress clouds my life as well as many 4 

### people in my family and community due to health 5 

### issues. That ain't right. 6 

### On Sunday, November 1st, Tangela Harris, 7 

### a bustling 34-year-old community activist tied. 8 

### How and why, you ask? She suffered a massive 9 

### asthma attack that caused her to go into cardiac 10 

### arrest. She lost control of all her bodily 11 

### fluids and had severe damage to her brain, lung, 12 

### and kidneys. After 4 days, her body just gave 13


### out. 14 

### How many more people have to die because 15 

### of the quality of air in Detroit? Because it's 16 

### not suitable to breathe. We must tell big 17 

### businesses "no" when it comes to undermining the 18 

### Clean Power Plan and weakening the EPA's ability 19 

### to protect our health. The time is now to do the 20 

### right thing and implement policy and protects my 21 

### people. We will no longer sit back and get 22145

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### rolled over because we are too sick and tired to 1 

### speak up. I refuse to die directly because of my 2 

### health issues, but I will give my life to take a 3 

### stand for the greater good. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### [Applause.] 6 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 7 

### Mr. Dixon? 8 

### MR. DIXON: Hello. My name is Mark 9 

### Dixon, M-a-r-k, D-i-x-o-n. 10 

### And I'll be attending the COP21 climate 11 

### negotiations in Paris this December, where the 12 

### world's eyes will be focused on America and a few 13 

### other major industrialized nations, urging them, 14 

### urging us to put in place an agreement sufficient 15 

### to hold our global temperatures below 2C and 16 

### maybe even 1.5C if we're lucky. 17 

### The Clean Power Plan under review today 18 

### is an integral part of our intended nationally 19 

### determined contribution, or INDC, our negotiating 20 

### position at this summit. Some would say that 21 

### your plan is visionary, powerful, or a good 22146

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### start. I say that it is pathetically 1 

### insufficient. 2 

### The United Nations itself has determined 3 

### that the combined INDCs leading into COP21 are 4 

### only sufficient to keep temperatures below 2.7C 5 

### above preindustrial levels, and other smart 6 

### analysts think those commitments may only limit 7 

### warming to about 3.5C. 8 

### And NASA's own scientist, James Hansen, 9 

### has even called the 2C target "catastrophic." He 10 

### advocates for less than 1C of warming. 11 

### It's like you're designing a Space 12 

### Shuttle that gets halfway into orbit before 13 

### falling back to Earth, exploding, and killing 14 

### large portions of humanity in the process, and 15 

### you're asking us to comment on this plan. 16 

### Sure. Getting halfway into orbit is a 17 

### good start. You could even say that we're headed 18 

### in the right direction. But if by design the 19 

### ship is doomed to failure, then I think that you 20 

### need to go back to the drawing board and come 21 

### back with a plan for an orbit-ready spacecraft. 22147

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### And in the meantime, while we wait for you to 1 

### figure out how to politely ask businesses to 2


### remove the CO2

### from their climate-destroying 3 

### energy facilities, we in Pittsburgh and Detroit 4 

### suffer with some of the worst air quality in the 5 

### country. 6 

### I'm stuck designing and building a 7 

### homemade air filter fan to try to clean my indoor 8 

### air. Here again, my description of your plan as 9 

### pathetically insufficient seems relevant. I got 10 

### the idea for that fan from a blog, from a guy in 11 

### China. 12 

### Indeed, at times, it feels like I'm 13 

### talking to a very polite wall, begging for those 14 

### in power to hear my cry. It reminds of the 15 

### refugees in Europe pleading with the walls of 16 

### administrators and sometimes just pleading with 17 

### brick walls, desperate and aching to be heard by 18 

### anybody who will listen and help. 19 

### It turns out that your very own National 20

### Academy of Science has done a bit of research 21 

### into the sea-level impacts of climate change and 22148

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### climate central built from those numbers to 1 

### determine that at 3C above pre-industrial levels, 2 

### which your plan helps us to accomplish, we will 3 

### see between 250- and 600 million people displaced 4 

### by sea-level rise. And you think that we have an 5 

### illegal immigration problem now? If we took 1 6 

### second of silence for each climate refugee, we 7 

### could very well be here for 19 years. 8 

### But I have 5 minutes. So in my remaining 9 

### time, I would like you to simply reflect on some 10 

### of the many climate refugees that your plan 11 

### creates: a family that loses everything; a 12 

### farmer forced to leave family land; a teenager 13 

### forced to steal to keep from starving; a child 14 

### with no home, with no country, multiplied by 15 

### millions. Imagine one such refugee. Now two. 16 

### Three. Four. Five. Six. Seven. Eight. Nine. 17 

### Ten. Eleven. Twelve. Thirteen. Fourteen. 18 

### Fifteen. Sixteen. 16 million. 160 million. 19 

### 600 million. 20 

### Thank you for your time. 21 

### [Applause.] 22149

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 1


### both. 2 

### Next, I would like to call Diana Morales 3 

### and Talan O'Brian -- or it could be Talia. I'm 4 

### sorry. I can't read the writing, which isn't 5 

### your writing. It's our writing, so -- 6 

### MS. MORALES: Hello. My name is Diana 7 

### Morales. I am here from Michigan United. I am 8 

### representing Detroit, Michigan. 9 

### I will make it pretty short for you guys 10 

### because I've heard all of the statistics, and 11 

### we've had some brilliant professors come up here 12 

### and really, really just break everything down, 13 

### all the facts for your guys, and I'm sure you 14 

### guys already know all of the numbers. 15 

### I'm just going to narrow it down to 16 

### pretty much my community situation. G was up 17 

### here earlier. He's from River Rouge, and I also 18 

### grew up in River Rouge and Ecorse. And I want to 19 

### take myself out of it because I'm going to 20 

### survive it, but a lot of the people in my 21 

### community don't feel as if they can survive this. 22150

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### And I take it that all of you went to 1 

### school. You took history class. You understand 2 

### why the people who are in these communities are 3 

### struggling. You understand that they were given 4 

### poor housing, and you understand that they are 5 

### disenfranchised. You understand that they are 6 

### marginalized. You understand that their labor 7 

### was exploited. I take it that you know all of 8 

### this stuff from history class, so I don't think 9 

### that you would need to know that. 10 

### So these people are already in a bad 11 

### situation. They're already impoverished, and the 12 

### war on drugs didn't help the community either. 13 

### So you know that. 14 

### But from a more personal point, I want 15 

### you to try to put yourself in our position. I'm 16 

### a college student. Just like all of you, I am 17 

### trying to better myself and my community. I do 18 

### not have a platform. I do not have a safety net, 19 

### whereas a lot of people have -- you can go be a 20 

### full-time student, and your parents can support 21 

### you and pay for your books. I don't have that 22151

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### privilege, and a lot of the people in my 1 

### community don't have that privilege. And a lot 2 

### of us don't buy our books. Quite frankly, we go 3 

### to the library or we find a way to get out of 4 

### buying our books because we don't want -- we 5 

### don't have the money to. We have to help our 6 

### parents. 7 

### My father is sick. He's been breaking 8 

### his body for 24 years in the construction 9 

### business, and I see him breaking his body. And I 10 

### tried to come to this country from Mexico and 11 

### say, "I'm going to try to figure out a way to 12 

### make a lot of money, so that I could just get 13 

### them out of this rut," and I realize that to make 14 

### a lot of money in this country, you have to do a 15 

### lot of terrible things. And that left me in a 16 

### horrible position, and I see it now. 17 

### This is why people are so reluctant. 18 

### This is why some of you are so reluctant to maybe 19 

### be more radical or be more persistent or have 20 

### more of an urgency for this because you, too, 21 

### want to maintain power and stability, and I 22152

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### understand that. 1 

### But I want you for one second to put 2 

### yourself in my position. I am a college student 3 

### who -- I have no vices. I literally am going to 4 

### study a field where I'll end up teaching, 5 

### hopefully, maybe an adjunct, maybe some tenure, 6 

### hopefully. I don't know. But if I can, that 7 

### would be great. 8 

### And I just need you to empathize with me 9 

### at least as a college student, as a member of the 10 

### society. I need you to understand that we are 11 

### all trying to survive, one way or another, and 12 

### it's hard to admit that you have privilege when 13 

### we all suffer, when we all have issues, when we 14 

### all have gone through hardships. It's hard to 15 

### understand that, but we're all privileged in some 16 

### way. And this is just something where you have 17 

### more of a platform. You're in a better position 18 

### to better the lives of others, and I would 19 

### recommend that you amplify the voices of those 20 

### who don't have a voice and who don't have the 21 

### position and the privilege that you do. 22153

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### And that's all that I want to say. Thank 1


### you. 2 

### [Applause.] 3 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 4 

### Ms. O'Brian? 5 

### MS. O'BRIAN: Hi. My name is Talia 6 

### O'Brian. I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and 7 

### I'm representing the Pennsylvania Sierra Club 8 

### today. 9 

### Growing up, the issues of our climate 10 

### were never really brought to light to me, and it 11 

### wasn't until my senior year in high school that I 12 

### realized that we are killing and destroying the 13 

### Earth, and not only that, but we're also harming 14


### ourselves. 15


### When I heard that the Clean Power Plan 16 

### had been passed, I was really excited, and I knew 17 

### that fewer asthmas attacks and premature deaths, 18 

### they were going to soon decline with time. But 19 

### now knowing that we are past that point, it's 20 

### really heartbreaking to know that we can't really 21 

### do anything about that right now. 22154

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### Although fossil fuel-fired power plants 1 

### should be something that our children as taught 2 

### when they are growing up, and they should be 3 

### taught that our generation was a generation that 4 

### was able to put an end to harmful greenhouse 5


### gases. 6 

### We need to stop filling our polluters' 7 

### pockets with money when all they do in return for 8 

### us is fill our air with it. 9 

### I refuse to push my generation's climate 10 

### crisis onto my children's shoulders. Climate 11 

### change is real, and families all around us are 12 

### suffering from it every day. I urge you to 13 

### create a strong federal implementation plan that 14 

### takes the steps to cut out carbon and create a 15 

### sustainable future for our generations. 16 

### That's it. Thank you for your time. 17 

### [Applause.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 19 

### for being here today. 20 

### I'd like to call Jordan Estevao and Dr. 21 

### Joh Atherton. My apologies for any 22155

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### mispronunciation. 1 

### MR. ESTEVAO: My name is Jordan Estevao, 2 

### spelled J-o-r-d-a-n, E-s-t-e-v-a-o. I'm here 3 

### representing National People's Action. 4 

### And I want to start with a note about 5 

### kind of notice and locations. So we, an 6 

### organization that's -- you know, that follows 7 

### these issues learned about this hearing about 2 8 

### weeks ago and reached out to our partners and 9 

### allies in the region to encourage them to come to 10 

### it, and that's part of the reason why there's 11 

### some participation here, but 2 weeks' notice is 12 

### not a lot for most folks. That limits the 13 

### participation that you're going to have to people 14


### that are able to take off work and make travel 15 

### arrangements that are close enough to make it 16


### here. 17 

### And the fact that there are only four of 18 

### these hearings, three of them on the East Coast 19 

### and then one in Denver, again, does not speak to 20 

### an agency that's really interested in getting a 21 

### lot of diversity of input into its plans, and so 22156

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### that's very disappointing. 1 

### The states are required, according to the 2 

### rules, as I understand it, to solicit meaningful 3 

### input from vulnerable communities, which is very 4 

### loosely defined, if at all defined in the rule, 5 

### and that's one thing that we think should be 6 

### strengthened. But, also, we think that the 7 

### federal EPA should be modeling that kind of 8 

### really meaningful reaching out for input. 9 

### Any case, we're here to support the Clean 10 

### Power Plan. As others have stated, it doesn't go 11 

### far enough to curb emissions, but it is the best 12 

### we have so far, and we want to make sure that it 13 

### is implemented in a good way in all of our 14 

### states. And to that end, the federal 15 

### implementation plan should be the gold standard 16 

### for a plan, but which remain that ideally, it 17 

### would be a plan that goes furthest to prioritize 18 

### renewables, to prioritize energy efficiency, 19 

### rather than encouraging states to rely more on 20 

### natural gas and fracking, rather than relying 21 

### more on nuclear energy or incinerated biomass, 22157

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### all of which carry their own terrible 1 

### environmental costs and all of which tend to be, 2 

### again, concentrated in low income and communities 3 

### of color. So the federal implementation plan 4 

### should be the best at avoiding those pitfalls. 5 

### The Clean Power Plan, as it's written, is 6 

### written with the intent to encourage carbon 7 

### trading. We don't think that that's the best way 8 

### to reduce carbon emissions. We don't think it 9 

### does enough to eliminate point source pollution 10 

### in low-income and communities of color, and we 11 

### think that inherently, a plan that's designed to 12 

### help industry make money, that's the wrong 13 

### priority, like it should be designed to keep our 14 

### communities healthy and safe from pollution and 15 

### to revitalize the energy economy in our states. 16 

### So we think that the FIP should include 17 

### greater set-asides for people of color and low18 

### to moderate-income communities. We think that it 19 

### should clear the way for community-controlled 20 

### projects to benefit from state incentives, and we 21 

### think that it needs to ensure that the jobs that 22158

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### are created, hopefully in energy efficiency and 1 

### renewables, are good quality, living-wage jobs 2 

### that help to revitalize the communities that have 3 

### been most impacted and most harmed by carbon 4 

### pollution, as many others have stated today. 5 

### So the Clean Energy Incentive Program, 6 

### we're happy that it's included in the CPP, but we 7 

### feel that set-asides for low- to moderate-income 8 

### communities and for energy efficiency and 9 

### renewables need to be expanded. We feel that 10 

### states should have -- should be required to 11 

### participate in the CEIP. It should not be 12 

### optional. 13


### We also feel that renewables allowances 14 

### should also be extended to non-profits and 15 

### community-based programs rather than just 16 

### generators and utilities. 17 

### And then we also believe that the EPA 18 

### should allow weatherization efforts to generate 19 

### emission reduction credits. 20 

### So these are a few ways. We're going to 21 

### submit a lot more by way of written comments and 22159

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### how we think the CPP and the FIP can be improved. 1 

### Thanks very much for having me. 2 

### [Applause.] 3 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 4


### Dr. Atherton? 5 

### DR. ATHERTON: My name is John Atherton. 6 

### That's A as in apple, t-h-e-r-t-o-n, and John 7 

### with an "h." 8 

### Renewable energy sources such as solar, 9 

### wind, geothermal, hydro, when combined with 10 

### energy efficiency can provide all the energy that 11 

### we need. This well-established claim might even 12 

### be conservative since it does not include future 13 

### improvements that will occur when American energy 14 

### innovators realize renewable energy is already 15 

### the only source of energy we can develop that 16 

### will protect our health and environment as well 17 

### as produce sustainable, healthy, and engaging 18 

### jobs, while it powers the economy. 19 

### Sustainable, healthy, and safe jobs that 20 

### pay well are imperative to assure workers not 21 

### only that they will have a paycheck, but that 22160

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### they will be healthy enough to use it. Such jobs 1 

### must also move beyond dull and dangerous tasks 2 

### better done by a machine. Jobs must be created 3 

### that use experience-based initiative of workers 4 

### and allow them to adapt these skills to novel 5 

### conditions. Jobs of the future must be 6 

### innovative. 7 

### The fossil industry has reached the end 8 

### of its innovative years. There's nothing 9 

### innovative about going ever deeper into the Earth 10 

### to drill or mine for ancient goo. It just 11 

### repeats 19th century thinking. 12 

### The fossil fuel industry cannot possibly 13 

### provide the innovation we need for a healthy 14 

### world because, one, in their very essence, they 15 

### deal with materials that are deadly toxic and 16 

### which are made all the worse when combined with 17 

### radioactive waste, and two, fossil fuels are tied 18 

### to the past where humans thought they could dig 19 

### and drill with impunity. Tearing things from the 20 

### bowel of the Earth and burning them on the 21 

### surface generates an arrogant attitude we should 22161

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### avoid instead of the effective cooperation we 1 

### need to cultivate. 2 

### The Clean Power Plan, to its credit, 3 

### recognizes much of what I've just mentioned. I 4 

### hear, however, that it ignores the concern that 5 

### may slow or stop many of its goals. I allude to 6 

### job retaining. 7 

### Fossil fuel workers feel threatened with 8 

### a federal mandate they see is aimed at them. They 9 

### are right to worry if the plan sacrifices their 10 

### jobs in the name of reducing greenhouse gases. 11 

### It is here that the plan needs to establish a 12 

### single agency that will recognize the accumulated 13 

### skills of these workers as advanced abilities 14 

### that allow them to select well-paid jobs in the 15 

### renewable sector. Once a new job has been 16 

### selected, appropriate retraining must occur to 17 

### allow fossil fuel workers to adapt to their new 18 

### jobs. 19 

### Gas workers can work on wind rigs, solar 20 

### installations, and tidal turbines. Fossil 21 

### engineers can find their skills being useful in 22162

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### energy efficiency. 1 

### Fossil fuel jobs have already been 2 

### disappearing in the present economy, so these 3 

### workers should find the job opportunities in 4 

### renewable energy timely and engaging. 5 

### We all know that $1 million invested in 6 

### oil and gas yields 0.8 jobs. The same million 7 

### gets us 1.9 jobs in coal. Compare these dismal 8 

### numbers with other job-producing fields. Wind 9 

### gives us five jobs per million. Solar gives us 10 

### six jobs. Biomass generates seven jobs. 11 

### Remember $1 million in fossil fuels gives us an 12 

### average of one job. 13 

### If you want a job, then reject the dirt 14 

### and danger of fossil fuels and look to the future 15 

### of renewable energy and energy efficiency. 16


### But the Clean Coal Plan must create 17 

### opportunities for these workers to transition to 18 

### new jobs. Without a job plan in the Clean Coal 19 

### Plan, the EPA may be seen as a federal agency 20 

### imposing its will on the people. This may doom 21 

### the plan because even if Congress passes it and 22163

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### the 50 statehouses passes it, jobless workers may 1 

### well oppose it. The Clean Power Plan may work, 2 

### but it must retrain fossil workers to a level of 3 

### pay and respect that they have earned. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### [Applause.] 6 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 7 

### Our next speakers will be Elowyn Corby 8


### and Maren Cooke. 9 

### MS. CORBY: Good afternoon, and thank you 10 

### for giving me the opportunity to address you 11 

### today. My name is Elowyn Corby. That's 12 

### E-l-o-w-y-n, C-o-r-b-y. And I would like to use 13 

### my time today to talk briefly about the 14 

### importance of the Clean Power Plan here in 15 

### Pennsylvania and to urge EPA to develop a federal 16 

### implementation plan that is itself a bold 17 

### statement about what our country is capable of 18 

### doing in order to tackle the largest 19 

### environmental issue of our era. 20 

### Climate change is already impacting our 21 

### communities here at home as well as the world we 22164

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### live in and we'll leave to future generations. 1 

### Hotter summer days are compromising air quality, 2 

### leading to more asthma attacks and other health 3 

### problems, and Pennsylvania is the eye of an 4 

### intensifying storm. 5 

### According to our research, nearly 9 out 6 

### of 10 Pennsylvanians already live in areas that 7 

### were listed as federal disaster zones between 8 

### 2007 and 2013 because of extreme weather, and we 9 

### deserve better for our children and our 10 

### communities. 11 

### It's a relief that federal officials are 12 

### taking historic action to address global warming. 13 

### The Clean Power Plan is the single largest step 14 

### our nation has ever taken to tackle climate 15 

### change, and it represents an enormous opportunity 16 

### to invest in the clean energy and energy 17 

### conservation and efficiency steps that will 18 

### ensure a better future for our communities and 19 

### generations to come. 20 

### And I'm proud that Pennsylvania's own 21 

### Department of Environmental Protection has 22165

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### started the process of crafting our state plan 1 

### through a public input process that was both 2 

### inclusive and underscored the huge support within 3 

### Pennsylvania for climate action. 4 

### The good news is that even coming into 5 

### this hearing, we know that the public is with us 6 

### on the need to cut carbon. A recent survey of 7 

### Pennsylvania voters conducted by the bipartisan 8 

### Public Opinion Strategies found that 82 percent 9 

### support, quote, Pennsylvania developing its own 10 

### state plan to reduce carbon pollution and 11 

### increase the use of clean energy and energy 12 

### efficiency. 13 

### The proposed federal implementation plan 14 

### is a good backstop for states that are unwilling 15 

### to protect public health from carbon pollution 16 

### and the climate change impacts that come with it 17 

### by meeting the reduction targets in the Clean 18 

### Power Plan, and we need it to be stronger still. 19 

### We need the federal implementation plan 20 

### to be as strong as the overwhelming evidence that 21 

### is telling us we must act now. We need it to 22166

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### unambiguously protect the health of our 1 

### communities in the long term by focusing on the 2 

### renewable energy sources and energy efficiency 3 

### measures that will move us toward a cleaner 4 

### future, and we need it to be a plan that, 5 

### although hopefully never used, since any state 6 

### should recognize the importance and added 7 

### flexibility of developing its own plan, is fit to 8 

### be our climate legacy. 9 

### It's an honor for Pennsylvania to be 10 

### selected to host this hearing, but it's also 11 

### fitting. We live in a truly beautiful state full 12 

### of lush forests, majestic rivers, and strong 13 

### communities that want to continue enjoying our 14 

### natural resources for generations to come. And 15 

### we have the obligation and the ability to protect 16 

### our state, our nation, and the globe from the 17 

### worst impacts of global warming, and the Clean 18 

### Power Plan gives us the opportunity to do just 19 

### that, through investing in energy efficiency and 20 

### clean energy. 21


### Let's make sure that we take full 22167

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### advantage of the Clean Power Plan and make our 1 

### federal implementation plan sustainable, forward 2 

### thinking, and something that our nation can be 3 

### proud of for generations to come. 4 

### Thank you again for holding these 5 

### hearings and for allowing me to testify today. 6 

### [Applause.] 7 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 8 

### being here today. 9 

### MS. COOKE: Greetings. My name is Maren 10 

### Cook, M-a-r-e-n, C-o-o-k-e, and I live here in 11 

### Pittsburgh. 12 

### I very much appreciate your coming back 13 

### to Pittsburgh, which is both a nexus of the old 14 

### fossil energy economy and a hub of industrial 15 

### innovation and academic research. 16 

### I'm a planetary scientist by training, 17 

### and I've spent a great deal of time over the 18 

### years communicating the science behind climate 19 

### change, the impacts we face, and what must be 20 

### done to mitigate climate disruption and to adapt 21 

### to the changes already under way. How severe 22168

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### these problems will be 20, 50, 100, or 200 years 1 

### into the future depends starkly on how quickly we 2 

### can stop digging and pumping fossil carbon out of 3 

### the ground and putting it into the air. 4 

### I also work on air quality, as a board 5 

### member of the Group Against Smog and Pollution 6 

### and in concert with other organizations, so my 7 

### comments here are my own. 8 

### The co-benefits of ceasing fossil fuel 9 

### use in air and water quality, human health, land 10 

### preservation, and social equity are well 11 

### understood. The health impacts of air and water 12 

### pollution tend not to be felt in the posh areas 13 

### where the rich energy company executives live. 14 

### They are experienced every day in minority, 15 

### low-income, and indigenous communities which 16 

### don't have the resources to fight them. 17 

### Likewise, the rich will be able to 18 

### insulate themselves and their families from the 19 

### effects of climate change for a long time to 20 

### come. They can afford to buy higher priced food 21 

### and clean water, to live in temperate climates, 22169

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### or to abandon that vacation home on the coast. 1 

### The proposition that we should stand for 2 

### health hazards now and in the future in the name 3 

### of profit for the few and cheap energy for the 4 

### many is ethically indefensible. 5 

### It should come as no surprise that fossil 6 

### companies form ExxonMobil to Peabody Energy have 7 

### been following the playbook of Big Tobacco trying 8 

### to suppress news of climate impacts for decades 9 

### past. It is beyond ironic, however, that the 10 

### scandals surfacing in the media have to do with 11 

### misleading their shareholders about financial 12 

### prospects rather than dooming people around the 13 

### world to droughts, floods, famines, and the 14 

### resultant wars over scarce resources, because 15 

### that's exactly what they're doing. 16 

### By financing climate change deniers to 17 

### cloud the public perception of what's going on, 18 

### they have delayed action for far too long. 19 

### Scientists have understood the physics of global 20 

### warming for almost two centuries. It's been in 21 

### the news since 1988 when Jim Hansen testified 22170

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### before Congress. Now it's 2015, and while the 1 

### Clean Power Plan is a good step, it is both too 2 

### moderate and too long in coming. 3


### The amount of known reserves that the 4 

### world can afford to extract while retaining a 5 

### living planet is rapidly dwindling to nothing. 6 

### We should be drilling no new wells, blowing up no 7 

### new mountains, building no new fossil power 8 

### plants, and we need to be pulling out all the 9 

### stops on developing better battery technologies 10 

### and more efficient solar panels so that renewable 11 

### electricity can take the place of fossil fuels in 12 

### most, if not all, applications. 13 

### For things like long-distance aviation, 14 

### the answer is probably biofuels, but they need to 15 

### be sustainably produced using cellulosic ethanol 16 

### from things like perennial switchgrass and 17 

### coppice tree crops, not from energy-efficient and 18 

### land-degrading corn. 19 

### Conservation, both through energy 20 

### efficiency and through changing our expectations, 21 

### also needs to be a big part of the picture. 22171

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### There's a common perception that without 1 

### fossil fuel extraction, the economy would suffer, 2 

### and as we saw at the Clean Power Plan hearings 3 

### last year, there are plenty of coal workers, 4 

### their families and retirees from Pennsylvania, 5 

### West Virginia, Kentucky, and other states who are 6 

### up in arms at the prospect of job losses, but 7 

### there are some other factors to consider. 8 

### First, there aren't that many active jobs 9 

### in coal production. I've spent time down in an 10 

### operating longwall coal mine, and there was just 11 

### a handful of people working the equipment. 12 

### Second, coal is already losing out to 13 

### natural gas, which especially while climate 14 

### change, water and air pollution, and their 15


### attendant health costs are left out of the 16 

### equation, is being produced more cheaply than 17 

### coal. Both will lose out to clean renewable 18 

### energy as we move forward, I hope, with the 19 

### national Carbon Fee and Dividend Program, which 20 

### would allow the free market to internalize the 21 

### costs of dirty fossil energy and incentivize 22172

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### renewables, efficiency, and conservation, while 1 

### providing a net financial benefit to the vast 2 

### majority of citizens. 3 

### And, third, as has been demonstrated by 4 

### detailed analysis by an independent nonpartisan 5 

### research organization called REMI, there are far 6 

### more jobs to be had in renewable energy, 7 

### well-paying, safer jobs, and I include the link 8 

### to that report in my written comments. 9 

### Something that occurred to me during last 10 

### year's EPA hearings was that these disparate 11 

### factors urgently need to be put together. The 12 

### environmental and health costs, which are not 13 

### being paid, and prices at the pump or on our 14 

### monthly bills are being borne partly by people 15 

### now and will be even greater for our children and 16 

### future generations living in a radically 17 

### different world. 18 

### It's all well and good to observe that 19 

### many more jobs would be created by transitioning 20 

### to a renewable economy, renewable energy economy, 21 

### and increasing energy efficiency, many such jobs, 22173

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### like installing solar panels or, while we're 1 

### thinking about climate, building green 2 

### infrastructure projects are inherently linked to 3 

### the cities and suburbs where most people live, 4 

### but many other jobs, like manufacturing solar 5 

### panels, wind turbines, thermal installation, and 6 

### other green building materials would both cut 7 

### carbon emissions and would generate countless 8 

### manufacturing jobs, many of which could be 9 

### located in the coal communities and other towns 10 

### where fossil-based industries are being phased 11


### out. 12 

### There are pools of industrial workers -- 13 

### they are the pools of industrial workers 14 

### hollering for jobs, needing just a little 15 

### retraining to work in industries that won't kill 16 

### them prematurely. They are the Brownfields, so 17 

### that we can stop ruining mountains, forests, and 18 

### farmland while still building the new facilities 19 

### needed for the new clean energy economy. 20 

### We -- and in large part, that is the 21 

### government -- just need to play our cards right, 22174

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### applying suitable tax incentives and such, so 1 

### that green businesses emerge to replace a whole 2 

### host of fossil-based ones. 3 

### Will that come at a cost to the 4 

### shareholders and management of these fossil-based 5 

### companies? Yes. But those parties have already 6 

### taken far too many profits at the expense of 7 

### future generations. They made their choices, and 8 

### it is ethically appropriate or, one might say, 9 

### only karma for them to get out or lose out. 10 

### We are at a critical juncture with 11 

### respect to climate change. We simply cannot 12 

### afford to keep on adding carbon to the 13 

### atmosphere. The EPA has the power and the 14 

### responsibility to do a great deal in mitigating 15 

### the risk to our common future. 16 

### So while I wholeheartedly support the 17 

### CPP, I ask you to go even further to reduce our 18 

### nation's carbon emissions. At this stage, 19 

### figuring out the federal implementation plan, 20 

### going farther will provide a strong role model 21 

### for individual state plans. By its rigor, it 22175

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### will probably also motivate more states to come 1 

### up with their own plans, and in the process, they 2 

### will come face to face with the implications of 3 

### climate change and their own contribution to it, 4 

### and hopefully, they will step up to the plate as 5


### well. 6 

### Thank you very much for your time, and I 7 

### saw that red, so thanks for the extra time. 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 9 

### [Applause.] 10 

### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Patricia 11 

### DeMarco and Nancy Robinson. 12 

### When you're ready. 13 

### MS. DeMARCO: My name is Patricia 14 

### DeMarco. I reside at 616 Woodside Road in 15 

### Pittsburgh, PA. I'm speaking in trust for my 16 

### grandchildren and for the unborn children of the 17 

### 21st century whose fate will be set by the 18 

### actions we take to control climate change. 19 

### I will be filing more comprehensive 20 

### documents in the record. 21 

### I recognize the difficult political 22176

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### environment surrounding this effort to begin 1 

### curtailing emissions for existing power plants. 2 

### As a practical matter, the EPA is 3 

### attempting to retain a minimum disruption of 4 

### business as usual for the electric utility 5 

### industry. 6 

### The final rule states that fossil fuels 7 

### will continue to be a critical component of 8 

### America's energy future. This rule alone will 9 

### not meet the urgent need we face to maintain 10 

### viable climate conditions for the future. A more 11 

### comprehensive climate policy is needed. 12 

### The target for this effort is too low. 13 

### If the plan is wildly successful, by 2030 power 14 

### plants will continue to emit 1.2 billion metric 15 

### tons per year of carbon dioxide into the 16 

### atmosphere. 17 

### The World Meteorological Organization 18 

### reports that levels of carbon dioxide have hit a 19 

### new record every year since 1984 and breached the 20 

### 400-part-per-million threshold in the northern 21 

### hemisphere early in 2014 and globally in early 22177

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### 2015. The goal of limiting atmospheric carbon 1 

### dioxide to 350 parts per million appears no 2 

### longer achievable. 3 

### Second, there are several environmental 4 

### and social justice issues left pending in this 5 

### rule. Three of these are of particular concern. 6 

### First, the Community Impact Assessment in 7 

### the plan shows that the burden of pollution 8 

### continues to fall disproportionately on 9 

### disadvantaged people within 3 miles of the target 10 

### power plants. Ramping down emissions from such 11 

### plants is not a just solution. 12 

### For example, in Pennsylvania, there are 13 

### 51 such plans affecting 1.8 million people. One 14 

### single plant subjects 447,057 people, of whom 61 15 

### percent are minorities and 49 percent are 16 

### low-income people, to pollution levels above the 17 

### recommended safe levels. The ethical and 18 

### appropriate decision for the 139 plants of this 19 

### kind around the country is to close them. 20 

### The second social justice issue pertains 21 

### to the workers in the fossil fuels industries. 22178

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### It is essential to protect the future of the 1 

### 80,000 coal miners and 147,000 oil and gas 2 

### workers who face declining employment as part of 3 

### a transition to a non-fossil future. 4 

### Companies such as Peabody Coal have laid 5 

### off workers and offloaded retirees with their 6 

### pension and health benefit obligations to shell 7 

### corporations like Patriot Coal, which soon 8 

### declares bankruptcy, leaving the workers to an 9 

### uncertain fate. This behavior may be legal 10 

### within the laws of corporate finance, but it is 11


### wrong. 12 

### Billions in annual federal subsidies for 13 

### oil, gas, and coal exploration development and 14 

### production could be used to address the social 15 

### justice needs of displaced fossil fuel workers. 16 

### The third environmental justice issue is 17 

### the unattended remediation and restoration of the 18 

### land. This is an intergenerational injustice 19 

### because we are leaving our children a degraded 20 

### and depleted planet. 21 

### In Pennsylvania alone, over 3,000 miles 22179

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### of streams have been permanently degraded from 1 

### acid-mine drainage. Watersheds and land in 39 2 

### states are affected by Marcellus and Utica shale 3 

### drilling and production activities, and 4 

### mountaintops removed for coal extraction remain 5 

### as scars on the land, looking more like 6 

### moonscapes than forested rolling hills that once 7 

### sheltered homes and towns. We must build a 8 

### future that respects and restores the land. 9 

### Finally, the federal Clean Power Plan 10 

### loses an opportunity to challenge innovation. It 11 

### displaces fossil fuels as slowly as possible 12 

### rather than as rapidly as possible. There is no 13 

### aspirational goal of eliminating fossil fuel 14 

### combustion, even in this century. Subsidies to 15 

### fossil fuel development and exploitation continue 16 

### to grow while investment mechanisms for renewable 17 

### fuels are variable, uncertain at the whim of 18 

### congressional budget battles, and relatively 19 

### limited by comparison. 20 

### Using existing commercial technology, we 21 

### could reach electricity carbon emissions of 750 22180

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### metric tons in the target frame mentioned in this 1


### rule. 2 

### Americans have demonstrated time and time 3 

### again the ability to rise to a challenge. This 4 

### federal power plan offers no inspiration to reach 5 

### for a new solution. It tinkers and tweaks the 6 

### existing flawed and inefficient system retaining 7 

### as much of the historic structure and equipment 8 

### as possible. Our children deserve a better 9


### result. 10 

### When President Kennedy challenges us to 11 

### set foot on the Moon, it seemed an impossible 12 

### goal, but the challenge inspired a generation, 13 

### and the technology spun from that effort, yielded 14 

### results that transformed the world. That is the 15 

### level of effort that we need for this challenge. 16 

### Thank you very much. 17 

### [Applause.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. 19 

### Ms. Robinson? 20 

### MS. ROBINSON: My name is Nancy 21 

### Nowakowski Robinson. I live at 1238 Varner Road, 22181

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### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15227, which is 1 

### Whitehall Borough. 2 

### I was born in Pittsburgh in 1945 at St. 3 

### Francis Hospital on 45th Street in Lawrenceville. 4 

### I spent most of my life in Pittsburgh. I have 5


### asthma. 6 

### I also have what is termed "environmental 7 

### sensitivities." What that means is that my nasal 8 

### passage, Eustachian tubes, ears, and throat are 9 

### constantly irritated. This condition has a 10 

### negative effect on my hearing. The only way to 11 

### truly help this condition is to move away from 12 

### the Pittsburgh area. 13 

### I lived in the Mount Lebanon neighborhood 14 

### for nearly 29 years. The air there was not 15 

### great, but when I moved to my present location, 16 

### approximately 6 miles east, the air quality was 17 

### noticeably worse. Obviously, this was something 18 

### that I was not expecting. What I did not realize 19 

### was that I moved closer to the Monongahela Valley 20 

### and the industry that exists near the river. 21 

### Perhaps 10 to 15 nights out of the month, 22182

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### I am awakened by a very, very strong odor that 1 

### resembles burning tires or burning oil, acrid. 2 

### Other times, there is strong sulphurous odor in 3 

### the air. The first week I lived there, I called 4 

### a neighbor asking what was wrong with the air. 5 

### She said it was common, and people who live there 6 

### no longer noticed it. I've been there 4 years. 7 

### I still notice it. If I had a choice, I would 8


### leave. 9 

### These industries are not involved in 10 

### power plants, but they certainly add to the toxic 11 

### mix that the Environmental Protection Agency is 12 

### charged to regulate. 13 

### I am 70 years old. As a Pittsburgher, 14 

### the effects of bad air have become a part of my 15 

### life story. I, however, do not anticipate a 16


### future that stretches over several decades. For 17 

### young people and infants who have long lives 18 

### ahead and for her grandchildren and mine, there 19 

### is no question that the environment laden with 20 

### various toxic and unnecessary chemicals will 21 

### compromise their health. 22183

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### I might add that both my mother and 1 

### father died of cancer. Who knows if there is a 2 

### connection? 3 

### Taking a less personal view and a more 4 

### important view, we know that climate change is 5 

### upon us. Anyone who denies that is either 6 

### misinformed or otherwise compromised. We need to 7 

### work in every way possible to reduce and reverse 8 

### the effect of greenhouse gases on the complex 9 

### environmental systems of Earth. 10 

### We all know too well the litany of 11 

### deleterious effects we face. More energetic 12 

### storms, flooding, drought, extreme temperatures, 13 

### migration of plants, animals, peoples, and crop 14 

### failure, we are already seeing these things 15 

### happen. It is past time to get very serious 16 

### about reducing the use of fossil fuels and 17 

### reducing their effect on all living things. Our 18 

### lives depend on it. 19 

### Reducing emissions from coal-fired energy 20 

### plants is an essential step, but just a step in 21 

### addressing the cumulative hazards of access and 22184

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### burning fossil fuels. 1 

### I hope that the Environmental Protection 2 

### Agency presses hard in every way possible to 3 

### clean our air, water, and the environment. 4 

### Furthermore, we have no choice. This is an 5 

### urgent task. 6 

### Thank you very much. 7 

### [Applause.] 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. Thank 9 

### you both for taking time to be with us today. I 10 

### appreciate it. 11 

### Next, I'd like to call Mindy Comangane 12


### and Robert Craven. 13 

### MS. COMANGANE: Sorry. I get a little 14 

### nervous sometimes, so if I get choked up, bear 15 

### with me. 16 

### MR. KOERBER: So far, so good. 17 

### MS. COMANGANE: My name is Mindy Jo Rosso 18 

### Comangane. I am the mother of four, a member of 19 

### PUSH Buffalo, a guest today of NPA's, and I feel 20 

### a representative of humanity. 21 

### I am here today to show you what an 22185

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### example of somebody who has suffered exposure to 1 

### dirty energy and the use of fossil fuels. It has 2 

### stolen opportunities from me, stolen the health 3 

### and even lives of loved ones. 4 

### When I was 8 years old, I stood in my 5 

### bedroom in the housing projects that lie just 6 

### about a block away from one of the largest 7 

### Superfund sites in New York State, Eighteen Mile 8 

### Creek. I stood there looking a picture of the 9 

### planet on my wall, and I had a vision that I 10 

### would be in a room just like this speaking on the 11 

### topic of planetary stewardship. 12 

### Little did I know at that moment, I was 13 

### becoming a survivor of the fallout of what I feel 14 

### is a campaign to poison my people and the planet 15 

### for profit. 16 

### Now I have four kids of my own, and I 17 

### can't deny the fact that my conscience keeps me 18 

### up at night. Voices cry from the dust who are 19 

### pleading that we in this present day take time 20 

### and care in how we invest in our future. 21 

### About a hundred years ago, men of wealth 22186

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### and power recognized the hour and converged 1 

### together to create an energy revolution, but they 2 

### refused to use the planet and humanity in their 3 

### plan of execution. Profit was the focus, and 4 

### production was key. Living behinds were 5 

### sacrificed to the gods of energy and technology. 6 

### To this day, our communities haven't 7 

### recovered, even though other options have been 8 

### discovered and corporate corruption uncovered. 9 

### We find ourselves here at the precipice of 10 

### another energy revolution of our own at the dawn 11 

### of a new age. Our people are disenfranchised and 12 

### full of rage, as the vision of a new world is 13 

### taking center stage. 14 

### The sins of our fathers tap us on the 15 

### shoulders, as we have the ability to remove big 16 

### business boulders and invest in a better cleaner 17 

### way. One hundred short years ago, the affected 18 

### people were cut out of the decision, as we have 19 

### bathed in dirty energy and -- we have breathed in 20 

### dirty energy and bathed in nuclear fission. 21 

### I ask you, 100 years from now, when our 22187

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### children's children's children speak of us in 1 

### this present day, see in your mind's eye, 2 

### envision what they'll say about the decisions we 3 

### make in this room today. 4 

### As a representative of humanity and a 5 

### steward of this beautiful planet, I pray you will 6 

### hear my words. Invest in people and the planet, 7 

### and all of our descendants will have a chance at 8 

### the quality of life every living being deserves. 9 

### We have decisions to make. How will you 10 

### be remembered? We must see beyond profit. We 11 

### must create jobs that build hope and real 12 

### longstanding vision. Let us forget about planned 13 

### obsolescence. May our children harvest the seeds 14 

### of renewability, equity, and accountability. Our 15 

### legacy will leave the footprints of renewability 16


### and not carbon. 17 

### If you don't want to deal with the 18 

### outcomes of people in poverty, then it's time to 19 

### stop making poor decisions. Give us the ability 20 

### to choose locally how we will supply our energy 21 

### without the looming face of big business in the 22188

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### background. They have already taken so much, and 1 

### we continue to pay in so many ways. 2 

### Invest in solutions and not Band-Aids, 3 

### and remember we can make a decision, but we can't 4 

### control the outcomes. There is no way to ensure 5 

### that it won't be one of your loved ones who 6 

### suffers along the way. If we don't ensure 7 

### integrity in the foundation of this vision, no 8 

### more classes among energy, no more poison for 9 

### profit, no more protection for pay. It's time 10 

### for us to be the ushers of a brighter day, and 11 

### please keep this in mind. If you are a business 12 

### that pollutes, you should be the one who pays. 13 

### No more incentive for bad behavior. It just 14


### doesn't make sense. 15 

### I submit these words humbly to you. 16 

### Thank you for hearing me. 17 

### [Applause.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 19 

### traveling here today. Appreciate it. 20


### Mr. Craven? 21 

### MR. CRAVEN: Hello. Yeah, my name is Bob 22189

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### Craven. That's C as in Chesapeake, r-a-v-e-n. 1 

### Thank you very much for the opportunity to give 2 

### feedback on the implementation of the CPP. I'm 3 

### here as a concerned citizen, and I will preface 4 

### my comments with an observation. 5 

### Carbon pollution is a threat to public 6 

### health on a global scale. The carbon from our 7 

### power plants directly drives the greenhouse 8 

### effect and by extension global climate change, 9 

### which his already putting communities at risk and 10 

### will eventually put all life at risk. 11 

### The public is already paying for carbon 12 

### pollution with their health and will only do more 13 

### so as extreme weather and climate change continue 14 

### to worsen. The problem is that air and the 15 

### environment belong to everyone. We should not 16 

### allow our energy practices to cause irreversible 17 

### ecological harm in the atmosphere, as that will 18 

### jeopardize all life. 19 

### But to the problematically -- our nation 20 

### as it operates today produces a vast quantity of 21 

### carbon pollution. The U.S. emits more than 17 22190

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### metric tons a year per capita, so each of us, and 1 

### global temperatures, of course, are rising at an 2 

### unprecedented rate. 3 

### The CPP addresses this complex challenge 4 

### by leading us toward cleaner energy and away from 5 

### fossil fuels, albeit gradually, and here I would 6 

### call special attention to the EPA's Clean Energy 7 

### Incentive Program, which encourages states to 8 

### invest in renewable energies. This is a public 9 

### good. 10 

### So my comments to the EPA are based on 11 

### the notion that climate sustainability is a 12 

### benefit for all, and that we ought to see this as 13 

### an opportunity to create lasting change on a 14 

### really remarkable scale for so many future 15 

### people. 16 

### So my comment is that states should take 17 

### advantage of the flexibility afforded by 18 

### state-specific implementation plans. I certainly 19 

### see Pennsylvania do that, but not all states my 20 

### do this, and so it is crucial that the federal 21 

### implementation plan parallels the gesture towards 22191

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### renewables that's made by the Clean Energy 1 

### Incentive Program. 2 

### Those states that end up adopting the FIP 3 

### will reduce pollution, protect public and 4 

### ecological health, and update their energy 5 

### systems, but they also ought to be working with a 6 

### plan that accelerates their movement away from 7 

### the movement of fossil fuels and the release of 8 

### this plant-matter carbon into the atmosphere and 9 

### toward renewable energies and energy efficiency. 10 

### I urge the EPA to continue to promote 11 

### renewable energy as a way for the United States 12 

### to become a more modern and, importantly, a more 13 

### ethical world energy producer. I do applaud the 14 

### EPA for this outreach to the public. 15 

### My final point is that the public depends 16 

### on a stable climate. Climate is the universal 17 

### interest, and we need a federal implementation 18 

### plan to prioritize the public good. 19 

### Thank you very much. 20 

### [Applause.] 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 22192

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### Next, I'd like to call Stephen Riccardi 1


### and Barb Grover. 2


### Is Ms. Grover here? 3 

### [No audible response.] 4 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Mr. Riccardi, you're 5 

### still up for now. 6 

### MR. RICCARDI: Fair enough. All right. 7 

### So my name is Stephen Riccardi, 8 

### R-i-c-c-a-r-d-I, and I'm speaking today as a 9 

### concerned citizen of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 10 

### As we all know, climate change is one of 11 

### the most serious challenges facing our 12 

### generation. A recent study from Penn State 13 

### concluded, once again, that climate change is 14 

### already taking place, and that the future impacts 15 

### will be acutely felt here in the Pittsburgh 16 

### region. Climate change means worse air quality, 17 

### which will endanger at-risk populations like kids 18 

### and seniors, more frequent and severe storms, 19 

### more pests and diseases, like West Nile Virus and 20 

### lung disease, and the list goes on. 21 

### As the largest single step the United 22193

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### States has ever taken to reduce global warming 1 

### and pollution, the Clean Power Plan is an 2 

### enormous move in the right direction. It's 3 

### critical that as the EPA develops this plan, we 4 

### focus on ways to more easily advance to an even 5 

### cleaner, more sustainable energy system. The 6 

### simplest way to do this is through making our 7 

### existing energy economy more efficient. 8 

### Pittsburgh has been a pioneer in the 9 

### develop of green buildings from our convention 10 

### center to the Phipps Conservatory to the new PNC 11 

### building, and a strong federal plan could help 12 

### drive the development of more consciously 13 

### energy-efficient construction across the country. 14 

### On a mass-based scale, we can incentivize 15 

### improvements to our homes and businesses that 16 

### reduce their energy usage. 17 

### Next, we need to make sure that this 18 

### transition moves us off of fossil fuels and on to 19 

### renewable energy sources like wind and solar. 20 

### Eventually, we need to transition to a 21 

### 100 percent clean energy economy, and this plan 22194

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### represents the most immediate opportunity to date 1 

### to take a bold step in that direction. So we 2 

### need reliable incentives for further wind and 3 

### solar development. Communities can follow the 4 

### lead of Philadelphia, which has resolved to 5 

### install 20,000 solar rooves by 2025, and thanks 6 

### to advancing technology and the growing market, 7 

### solar power is often in cost parity with 8 

### carbon-intensive fuel sources like coal. 9 

### To continue to grow this market, we 10 

### should look towards common-sense financing 11 

### options so that more and more Americans can go 12 

### solar today because when it comes to fighting 13 

### climate change, we can't afford to wait. We have 14 

### the obligation and the ability to protect our 15 

### nation from the worst effects of global warming, 16 

### and the Clean Power Plan gives us the opportunity 17 

### to do just that, through investing in energy 18 

### efficiency and clean energy 19 

### But perhaps one thing demands stating 20 

### more than any of this, which is that states need 21 

### to remember the plan we're commenting on today 22195

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### should only be a backstop. One of the greatest 1 

### advantages of the Clean Power Plan is that it 2 

### gives the states the flexibility to decide for 3 

### themselves how they will modernize their energy 4 

### economy and protect our climate and public 5


### health. 6 

### Governors and other state leaders, 7 

### especially here in Pennsylvania, need to rise 8 

### above politics, consider the needs and resources 9 

### of their states, and seize this opportunity for a 10 

### clean energy future. 11 

### So let's make sure we take full advantage 12


### of the Clean Power Plan and make our 13 

### implementation sustainable, forward thinking, and 14 

### something that Americans can be proud of for 15 

### generations to come. 16 

### Thank you all very much for the 17 

### opportunity to speak here. 18 

### [Applause.] 19 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 20


### Ms. Grover? 21


### MS. GROVER: I'm Barbara Grover. 22196

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### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Welcome. The stage 1 

### is all yours, ma'am. 2 

### MS. GROVER: Hi. Sorry. My name is 3 

### Barbara Grover. I reside at 5526 Wilkins Avenue 4 

### in Pittsburgh, 15217. As Chair of the Allegheny 5 

### Group of the Sierra Club, I'm speaking this 6 

### afternoon on behalf of over 5,000 members here in 7 

### Southwestern Pennsylvania. 8 

### We applaud President Obama and EPA for 9 

### creating the Clean Power Plan. Reducing carbon 10 

### dioxide emissions is critical to addressing 11 

### climate change. Giving states the flexibility of 12 

### creating their own state-specific pollution 13 

### control plans is an excellent approach to protect 14 

### our air, water, and the health of our citizens. 15 

### However, giving states this opportunity means 16 

### that the EPA standards must be especially strong 17 

### so that if a state decides not to create its own 18 

### plan, your standards must provide those 19 

### protections to that stare's citizens. 20 

### I'm going to address just two issues 21 

### incorporated in the plan: one, the need to 22197

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### ensure that communities benefit from the 1 

### implementation of the Clean Power Plan; and two, 2 

### the immediacy of dealing with reduction of CO2 3 

### emissions. 4 

### We applaud your inclusion of 5 

### opportunities for communities, particularly 6 

### low-income, minority, and tribal communities, to 7 

### continue to participate in the decision-making 8 

### process. You require states to demonstrate how 9 

### they are actively engaging these communities. 10 

### It's a good thing, but we are concerned, however, 11 

### that such efforts often look good on paper, but 12 

### in actual practice don't really involve community 13 

### input. We encourage you to carefully monitor 14


### these efforts to hold states accountable. 15 

### Another concern is how you will address 16 

### this community involvement in states that do not 17 

### provide plans. Your Clean Energy Incentive 18 

### Program must be implemented as quickly as 19 

### possible. Waiting till 2020 or 2021 is way too 20 

### great a delay. Encouraging investment right now 21 

### in sustainable renewable energy and in 22198

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### energy-efficiency program will have immediate 1 

### economic benefits, especially in these vulnerable 2 

### communities. 3 

### My second point is the immediacy of 4 

### action. Reducing carbon dioxide emissions to an 5 

### absolute minimum, as quickly as possible, is 6 

### critical. Otherwise, the Earth may not be 7 

### habitable for human beings by the end of the 8 

### century. 9 

### It is astonishing to know that without 10 

### taking serious, immediate action, we are creating 11 

### our own demise, recently referred to as the 12 

### "sixth extinction." As you may know, Elizabeth 13 

### Colbert points out the previous five extinctions 14 

### of a majority of this planet's inhabitants were 15 

### not caused by human beings. The sixth extinction 16 

### is. How can we not do everything possible to 17 

### prevent this from occurring? 18 

### Climate scientists indicate we have 19 

### years, not decades, to stabilize CO2

### to keep our 20 

### planet inhabitable for humans. The average 21 

### atmospheric CO2

### for October 2015 was 398.29, 22199

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### considerably higher than the 350 parts per 1 

### million scientists identified as the upper safety 2 

### limit many years ago. We are currently 3 

### witnessing the catastrophic impact of these toxic 4 

### emissions. 5 

### The ultimate goal is to transition to 6 

### sustainable clean energy as quickly as possible. 7 

### The Clean Power Plan goals are for a 30 percent 8 

### reduction by 2030. That goal does not address 9 

### the extreme crisis we are facing. 10 

### In 2011, 4 years ago, Susan Joy Hassol, 11 

### director of Climate Action, wrote, "In order to 12 

### stabilize CO2

### concentrations as about 450 parts 13 

### per million by 2050, global emissions would have 14 

### to decline by 60 percent below 1990 levels by 15 

### 2050. Industrial countries' greenhouse gas 16 

### emissions would have to decline by 80 percent by 17 

### 2050." 18 

### When asked what goals are needed for 19 

### 2030, she responded, "There's not a simple 20 

### answer. What is essential is to begin 21 

### immediately, as delay will be costly, both 22200

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### economically and in terms of achieving the 1 

### climate stabilization goals. The 30 percent 2 

### reduction by 2030 is simply inadequate." 3 

### In conclusion, the Clean Power Plan is an 4 

### historic step toward making this planet habitable 5 

### for many future generations. We encourage you to 6 

### establish strong goals and implement them 7 

### expediently. Time is absolutely of the essence. 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### [Applause.] 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 11 

### Let me take a brief moment here to thank 12 

### all of the speakers for sharing your thoughts, 13 

### your ideas, your feelings with us today. It's 14 

### very much appreciate. And I'd also like to thank 15 

### the audience for listening so quietly and 16 

### politely. I appreciate it, and believe me, our 17 

### speakers appreciate it as well, so thank you all. 18 

### Next, I'd like to call Sharon Pillar and 19 

### Jay [sic] Bergey. 20 

### MS. PILLAR: Good afternoon. My name is 21 

### Sharon Pillar, S-h-a-r-o-n. Pillar, P-i-l-l-a-r. 22201

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### Thank you for holding these hearings today. 1 

### My name is -- I already told my you my 2 

### name. I am the elected president of the Solar 3 

### Unified Network of Western Pennsylvania, or 4 

### SUNWPA, as we say, our region's industry and 5 

### advocacy group comprised of solar developers, 6 

### installers, solar owners, non-profit 7 

### organizations, and individuals interested in 8 

### deploying more solar power. I'm also employed as 9 

### the vice president of SmartPower, the nation's 10 

### leading non-profit marketing firm dedicated to 11 

### promoting clean renewable energy and energy 12 

### efficiency to help Americans make smart energy 13 

### choices. 14 

### We at SUNWPA wholeheartedly support the 15 

### EPA's Clean Power Plan to curb carbon emissions 16 

### from existing electricity sources, particularly 17 

### through the use of energy efficiency and 18 

### renewable energy. 19 

### For Western Pennsylvania, this change has 20 

### significant and important ramifications and 21 

### opportunities. The potential solar is only 22202

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### beginning to unfold here and across the nation. 1 

### Just 10 years ago, we could not have fathomed 2 

### that. Today we would have almost 25 gigawatts of 3 

### solar in the United States. 4 

### We should not underestimate what we would 5 

### be able to do in another 10, 20, or 30 years, and 6 

### in fact, the National Renewable Energy Labs 7 

### conducted a technical feasibility study of solar 8 

### potential and found that Pennsylvania has a 9 

### technical capability to produce 631,703 gigawatt 10 

### hours of electricity through solar PV every 11 

### single year, which is almost four and a half 12 

### times our current retail sales of electricity in 13


### our state. 14 

### We have an enormous solar potential, not 15 

### just here in Pennsylvania, but, of course, the 16 

### whole nation, a source of clean carbon-free 17 

### energy that is severely underutilized. 18 

### We advocate that the EPA clarify the 19 

### ambiguity of the role that distributed PV is 20 

### given in the Clean Power Plan in meeting the 21 

### carbon reduction goals and assure that 22203

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### distributed solar plays an integral and direct 1 

### role in reducing carbon across the nation. 2


### The current draft of the CPP does not 3 

### include distributed solar in the best system of 4 

### emission reductions, the BSER, for building block 5 

### 3, but only utility scale, presumably because of 6 

### the challenges stated as those associated with 7 

### evaluation, measurement, and verification for 8 

### production and possibly the unit cost. Not only 9 

### should distributed PV be included, we argue that 10 

### it should have a higher value than even 11 

### utility-scale PV. 12 

### Most state RPS programs have already 13 

### figured out that the EM&V for distributed PV -- 14 

### and this data is consistent and reliable to 15 

### confirm generation. 16 

### While utility-scale PV plays a crucial 17 

### role in reducing carbon, distributed renewables 18 

### have the definite advantage over utility-scale 19 

### generation because the energy is used in close 20 

### proximity to the generation, which minimizes the 21 

### losses over transmission lines. Distributed PV 22204

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### allows about a quarter to a third more power to 1 

### be utilized by the consumer, which displaces a 2 

### greater percentage of carbon-intensive fuels 3 

### generated at large-scale power plants. 4 

### For example, a house in Western 5 

### Pennsylvania would need about 30 rooftop panels 6 

### produce all of its electricity needs, but if that 7 

### solar energy were coming from a utility-scale PV 8 

### plant, it would require about 38 to 40 panels to 9 

### product that same energy at that home. 10 

### Therefore, a watt of distributed PV would 11 

### displace a quarter of a third more dirty fossil 12 

### fuel energy than utility-scale PV project. So we 13 

### encourage the EPA to appropriately value the role 14 

### of distributed PV in reducing carbon. 15 

### By its own acknowledgement, the 16 

### importance of distributed generation, the EPA 17 

### included the following statement in the CPP: 18 

### "Based on preliminary analysis from DOE and NREL, 19 

### cost-effective opportunities for distributed 20 

### generation alone could satisfy one-third to over 21 

### one-half of the stringency associated with 22205

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### building block 3." So we hope that the role of 1 

### distributed solar is strengthened in the BSER. 2 

### In addition, while the CPP does indicate 3 

### the states may be able to use their renewable 4 

### portfolio standards for some benefit, we also 5 

### request that the EPA clarify this requirement so 6 

### the states can only include solar energy produced 7 

### within their state limits. 8 

### In Pennsylvania, the alternative energy 9 

### portfolio standards, or AEPS, contains a solar 10 

### carve-out of a half a percent of energy to come 11 

### from solar. However, any project within the PGM 12 

### territory is eligible to receive solar renewable 13 

### energy credits. This provision has allowed a 14 

### large number of solar projects from other states 15 

### to receive Pennsylvania credit and subsequently 16 

### has dramatically weakened the solar market in our 17


### state. 18 

### While solar energy generated in other 19 

### states is still reducing carbon from 20 

### carbon-intensive sources, it is not necessarily 21 

### reducing Pennsylvania state emissions. 22206

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### In addition, this allowance in the AEPS 1 

### has stunted the Pennsylvania solar industry and 2 

### has further diminished our future capability to 3 

### expand carbon-free energy resources. 4 

### So building successful markets for 5 

### carbon-free energy generation is key to our 6 

### ability to reduce carbon pollution. Our AEPS 7 

### does not do this, so we ask that the CPP not 8 

### promulgate this unfortunate provision by 9 

### continued support of it. Assuring that the CPP 10 

### support healthy markets is also important to the 11 

### ability to reduce carbon. 12 

### Solar energy generation, particularly in 13 

### carbon-intensive states, such as Pennsylvania, is 14 

### also important in reducing other air pollutions 15 

### in addition to carbon and has immediate benefits 16 

### to the health of people in our region. A 17 

### Carnegie Mellon University study showed that the 18 

### societal benefits of replacing carbon-intensive 19 

### fuels with wind and solar have far greater 20 

### environmental and health benefits in Ohio, 21 

### Pennsylvania, and West Virginia than anywhere 22207

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### else in the country because our air quality 1 

### presents more health risks than anywhere else in 2 

### the nation. 3 

### Solar electricity in Pennsylvania 4 

### provides $75 per megawatt hour in health and 5 

### environmental benefits per year, 15 times more 6 

### the same solar production as in Arizona, because 7 

### it displaces our dirty air from fossil fuels. 8 

### Transitioning to renewables is a good investment 9 

### for Pennsylvania, for our economy, and most 10 

### importantly for the health of our people and our 11 

### planet. This provides yet another reason why 12 

### strengthening our solar market is imperative. 13 

### We applaud President Obama, his 14 

### administration, and the EPA for your leadership 15 

### in tackling climate change, and the solar 16 

### industry in Western Pennsylvania looks forward to 17 

### continuing to serve our country as part of a 18 

### national climate force. We are armed with 19 

### carbon-free technology that will secure the 20 

### health of our nation and of our planet. 21 

### So thank you very much. 22208

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### [Applause.] 1 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. 2 

### Ms. Joy Bergey. My apologies. 3 

### MS. BERGEY: No problem. So It's Joy, 4 

### J-o-y, Bergey, B-e-r-g-e-y. Welcome back to 5 

### Pennsylvania, EPA. We love to have you here. 6 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 7 

### MS. BERGEY: And I'm a lifelong 8 

### Pennsylvanian. 9 

### So thank you for the opportunity to come. 10 

### I represent the Partnership for Policy Integrity, 11 

### a non-profit that advocates for clean energy and 12 

### provides science and legal advocacy to reduce 13 

### reliance on polluting energy technologies that 14 

### masquerade as clean. 15 

### Let me also just set the context. We are 16 

### fully support of the Clean Power Plan, and my 17 

### comments are in the context of making it as 18 

### strong as possible. We want a strong Clean Power 19


### Plan. 20 

### So I am here to express strong opposition 21 

### to biomass and waste burning being treated as 22209

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### compliance measures in the Clean Power Plan, 1 

### either under a rate-based or mass-based plan. We 2 

### are not alone in this sentiment. A number of 3 

### groups have called on EPA to exclude bioenergy 4 

### altogether from the Clean Power Plan, including 5 

### some in this room, Sierra Club, Clean Air Task 6 

### Force, Center for Biological Diversity, 7 

### Greenpeace, Earth Justice, Friends of the Earth, 8 

### and 350.org. We are including a letter from 9 

### these groups as part of our testimony, which I 10


### won't read. 11 

### EPA should provide leadership in the 12 

### federal implementation plan on this issue because 13 

### the treatment of bioenergy by the plan is 14 

### somewhat murky. States will likely rely greatly 15 

### on the FIP for guidance. 16 

### It's indisputable science that biomass 17 

### power plants emit more CO2

### per megawatt hour than 18 

### coal or gas plants. Co-firing biomass with coal 19 

### increases CO2

### emissions and decreases facility 20 

### efficiency, making even the coal burn less 21 

### efficiently. This is contrary to EPA's building 22210

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### block 1 for the Clean Power Plan, which is to 1 

### increase coal plant efficiency. 2 

### Thus, if EPA allows bioenergy as 3 

### compliance under the FIP, the agency will be in 4 

### the peculiar position of claiming that biomass 5 

### reduces emissions when it actually increases 6


### them. 7 

### With regard to co-firing at an EGU that's 8 

### covered by the rule, we're not sure how this can 9 

### be legal. The 111(d) rule is supposed to reduce 10 

### emissions from the existing power source, but 11 

### co-firing biomass will demonstrably increase the 12 

### heat rate, decrease facility efficiency, and 13 

### thus, increase tons of CO2

### that are emitted per 14 

### megawatt hour of electricity generated. We doubt 15 

### that EPA would want to be in the position of 16 

### defending that as a compliance measure. We hope 17 

### not, anyway. 18 

### EPA is requiring that to be qualified, 19 

### the biomass must be, quote, demonstrated as a 20 

### method to control increases in CO2

### levels in the 21 

### atmosphere, end quote, but the agency hasn't 22211

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### defined what that means. So do states get to 1 

### decide on their own? That's a question for you 2 

### to consider. 3 

### In fact, because of the structure of the 4 

### rule, we don't see much room for nuance in the 5 

### treatment of bioenergy emissions. There is no 6 

### place to count biogenic CO2

### under either a 7 

### rate-based or mass-based approach, except, as 8 

### what is proper and legal, if it's coming out the 9 

### stock of an electric-generating unit covered by 10 

### the rule. Thus, although states may in theory 11 

### have latitude in how they account for biogenic 12


### CO2

### , qualified biomass will likely be uniformly 13 

### treated as having zero emissions. 14 

### EPA needs only to look to the southeast 15 

### part of the country to see evidence for what 16 

### happens when you treat bioenergy as having zero 17 

### emissions. The emerging disaster of the pellet 18 

### industry, which is sending so-called 19 

### "carbon-neutral fuel" to Europe and the UK, has 20 

### been created and sustained by just the policy 21 

### that EPA is proposing, treatment of stock 22212

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### emissions of biomass as zero and confining fuels 1 

### to, quote, sustainably harvest wood and waste 2 

### wood. Those are exactly the claims the pellet 3 

### industry makes. 4 

### For instance, Enviva, which pelletizes 5 

### several million tons of trees a year, claims that 6 

### the lands from which it harvests are certified by 7 

### major organizations, like the Forest Stewardship 8 

### Council. Meanwhile, thousands of acres of 9 

### bottom-land hardwood forests are being clear cut 10 

### so they can be sent up the stock of -- up the 11 

### stock of power plants in Europe. 12 

### Hence, here in the U.S., the wood pellet 13 

### industry has been progressively -- aggressively 14 

### promoting biomass as the easy compliance solution 15 

### under the Clean Power Plan for utilities with, 16 

### quote, aging coal plants. 17 

### However, if the EPA approves a list of 18 

### prequalified fuels, this is an invitation to 19 

### fraud. Once waste is sanctioned as carbon 20 

### neutral, every fuel will be classified as waste. 21 

### It's unrealistic to think states will enforce 22213

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### standards and actually restrict the bioenergy 1 

### industry to certain burning fuels, particularly 2 

### when the industry has policymakers convinced that 3 

### as long as net-forest growth is positive, carbon 4 

### emissions from bioenergy don't harm the 5 

### atmosphere. 6 

### I see I'm red, so I'll finish up with one 7 

### last paragraph, if I may. 8 

### With regards to burning so-called waste 9 

### fuels, what is the point of incentivizing 10 

### something that's going to happen anyway? Where 11 

### facilities are burning waste fuels for energy, 12 

### they are usually doing it for waste reduction, 13 

### which benefits them, and to generate on-site 14 

### power, which also benefits them. Why do they 15 

### need incentives if they are going to burn the 16 

### material anyway? Providing such incentives 17 

### simply serves to displace true zero emissions 18 

### compliance measures. 19 

### So I'll finish with that and leave you my 20 

### written testimony. Thank you very much. 21 

### [Applause.] 22214

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. 1 

### I'd like to call Chris Rogers and Katie 2


### Bartolotta. 3 

### MR. ROGERS: Hello. Thank you so much. 4 

### My name is Chris Rogers, last name R-o-g-e-r-s. 5 

### Thank you so much for this unique opportunity to 6 

### flesh out my role as an active and concerned 7 

### citizen. I traveled from Philadelphia, 8 

### Pennsylvania, bright and early this morning to be 9 

### here, and I'm very happy to be here. 10 

### I won't feed you numbers. You've done 11 

### research, analyses, and calculations, and my 12 

### fellow speakers who are providing such are more 13 

### qualified, probably, so I'm going to refrain from 14 

### bombarding you with that information, though I 15 

### would like to concisely agree that the Clean 16 

### Power Plan will help realign us with the rest of 17 

### the world in slowing our approach to that 2 18 

### degrees Celsius planetary increase, although this 19 

### plan is just the first step, and we will need to 20 

### curtail carbon emissions beyond the approximate 21 

### 33 percent reduction. 22215

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### And I do agree that the CPP will 1 

### ultimately cut energy costs in Pennsylvania, and 2 

### it will catalyze countless new jobs and 3 

### businesses in renewable energy and energy 4 

### efficiency in our state going forward. 5 

### But what I really want to provide is a 6 

### personal perspective because ultimately that is 7 

### the aim of all this policy. It's about the 8 

### protection of life, my life, your lives, the 9 

### lives of our children, every human and all 10 

### creatures on this precious planet. 11 

### So for me, it started with the 12 

### replacement -- well, let me just backtrack. I do 13 

### have roots here in Pittsburgh. My father was a 14 

### minister, actually at East Liberty Presbyterian 15 

### Church in the 1970s, and I mention that because 16 

### his faith has inspired me to absorb the Christian 17 

### message, the core messages of Earth stewardship 18 

### and social justice, both of which are endangered 19 

### and most profoundly by climate change the elite 20 

### corporate engine that profits from it. 21 

### So for me, it started with replacement of 22216

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### energy-efficient lightbulbs and then turning 1 

### unused lights off in my early 20s. It then 2 

### expanded to sourcing my goods and food as local 3 

### as possible, and then it expanded to advocacy. 4 

### For the last 2-1/2 years, I've served as the vice 5 

### president of the Phoenixville Green Team. It's a 6 

### volunteer 501(c)(3) in Phoenixville, 7 

### Pennsylvania, right outside of Valley Forge, and 8 

### like the very city we find ourselves in today, 9 

### Phoenixville shaped its identity around the steel 10 

### industry, which wholly dissolved and fell apart 11 

### in the late 1980s and largely left the town lost 12 

### and impoverished. 13 

### But over the last decade or so, 14 

### Phoenixville has become rejuvenated via its arts 15 

### and its natural resources, developing a new 16 

### legacy to carry forward. I'd like to think that 17 

### in some small way, the efforts of the 18 

### Phoenixville Green Team are adding to this new 19 

### legacy, bolstering the consciousness that a 20 

### healthy, tight-knit, and sustainable community is 21 

### a desirable place to call home. 22217

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### The symbolism of the rebirth of 1 

### Phoenixville is quite relevant to this story that 2 

### the Clean Power Plan will start in Pennsylvania, 3 

### a place once beholden to an industrialized, 4 

### fossil, energy-intense economy and the pollutants 5 

### it implies, is refocusing its identity to one of 6 

### artisanry, localism, farming, art, nature, and I 7 

### don't meant at all to disparage the hard work and 8 

### vital contributions from the employees of the 9 

### fossil fuel industry across this state 10 

### Pennsylvania, but the arc of this archetypal 11 

### story expresses the possibility of overcoming 12 

### change that at one time might seem insurmountable 13 

### or obliterative. 14 

### We all know the story of America itself. 15 

### It's about continuously confronting enormous 16 

### obstacles and accomplishing profound change. Not 17 

### only must we manifest this Clean Power Plan, we 18 

### can do it, and we will be writing a proud new 19 

### legacy for ourselves, for Pennsylvania and 20

### America, one that proclaims a confidence in our 21 

### ability to overcome literally the most formidable 22218

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### of challenge that is climate change, and so I 1 

### applaud the Obama administration and the EPA for 2 

### mustering the courage and tenacity in this 3 

### recalcitrant and combative political climate, 4 

### where exorbitant wealth and special interests so 5 

### often betray the wishes of average citizenry to 6 

### embark on the development of this Clean Power 7 

### Plan because there are millions of us out there 8 

### who trust science, which undoubtedly shows that 9 

### anthropogenic carbon emissions are the primary 10 

### cause of climate change. 11 

### And there are millions of us out there 12 

### with open eyes who also trust their hearts, which 13 

### compel us to seek action to mitigate this 14 

### frightening trajectory of our current climate 15 

### change crisis. 16 

### Lastly, just on a technical note, I would 17 

### like to request that the EPA embolden the federal 18 

### implementation to fix it in carbon pricing 19 

### markets as much as possible, and as much as 20 

### possible under its jurisdiction, foment 21 

### entrepreneurship and creativity in renewable 22219

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### energy and energy-efficiency businesses, 1 

### especially wind and solar infrastructure, and 2 

### inclusively aid workers in the fossil fuel 3 

### industry in retaining and transition 4 

### opportunities. 5 

### Thank you so much for your time. I 6 

### really appreciate it. 7 

### [Applause.] 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir, for being 9 

### here today. 10


### Ms. Bartolotta? 11 

### MS. BARTOLOTTA: Hi. My name is Katie 12 

### Bartolotta, K-a-t-i-e, B-a-r-t-o-l-o-t-t-a, and I 13 

### am giving testimony today on behalf of Dave 14 

### Imgrund, D-a-v-e, I-m-g-r-u-n-d, who could not be 15 

### here today, so I'll begin his letter now. 16 

### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 17


### out on the Clean Power Plan. I am a member of 18 

### several sportsman organizations, Trout Unlimited, 19 

### Pheasants Forever, and Overview Anglers Club, to 20 

### name a few. As someone who has been hunting and 21 

### fishing for nearly five decades, I wish to speak 22220

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### out in support of the Clean Power Plan. 1 

### The continued burning of coal has created 2 

### a situation that needs remedy and as quickly as 3 

### possible. We are changing our world in ways that 4 

### may be irreversible. I have already seen 5 

### unwanted changes in the sports I love. More 6 

### frequent severe weather events threaten the 7 

### survival of fish species by radically altering 8 

### the spawning environments they require to 9 

### propagate, resulting in poor or no spawn. 10 

### Rising water temperatures have also had 11 

### an adverse effect on many species, including the 12 

### brook trout, Pennsylvania state fish. The 13 

### prospects for game birds and songbirds are also 14 

### diminished by climate change. Climate change has 15 

### altered the life cycles of insects, so that now 16 

### bird species that evolve peak insect populations 17 

### are no longer in phase, resulting in population 18 

### declines. 19 

### With the Clean Power Plan, states have 20 

### been given a chance to tailor a reduction in 21 

### carbon emissions to the unique situation each 22221

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### faces. Pennsylvania will have the opportunity to 1 

### develop its own plan. The federal implementation 2 

### plan is only intended as a backstop, ensuring 3 

### that states unable or unwilling to develop a plan 4 

### are complying with the goal of reducing carbon 5 

### and other toxic emissions. 6 

### Rather than in overreach, the federal 7 

### implementation plan is merely ensuring that all 8 

### states bear part of the load to meet these 9 

### necessary reductions. 10 

### The Clean Power Plan is a key piece in 11 

### the process of reducing carbon emissions, a 12 

### process that needs to move forward quickly if we 13 

### seek to preserve the world in a viable state. 14 

### The Clean Power Plan is a win for wildlife, a win 15 

### for the environment, and a win for anyone who 16 

### wishes to lease the best possible world to future 17 

### generations. 18 

### I thank you for listening to my concerns 19 

### today. I hope that you continue to work toward a 20


### better future. Thanks. 21 

### [Applause.] 22222

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 1 

### for being here. 2 

### Next, I'd like to call Jacob 3 

### Swenson-Lengyel and Ben Ishibashi. 4 

### Sorry for any mispronunciations. 5 

### MR. SWENSON-LENGYEL: I promise I'm not 6 

### trying to make it difficult for you. Thank you 7 

### for having us here today. My name is David 8 

### Swenson-Lengyel. That's S-w-e-n-s-o-n, hyphen, 9 

### L-e-n-g-y-e-. 10 

### I've traveled here from Chicago to 11 

### testify in support of the Clean Power Plan and 12 

### calling you to strengthen the federal 13 

### implementation plan and the model plan. I'm 14 

### speaking today on behalf of National People's 15

### Action. We're a multiracial network of 29 16 

### grassroots organizations in 18 states working to 17 

### protect a planet imperil, create a new economy, 18 

### and realize true democracy. We have more than 19 

### 100,000 members around the country, a number of 20 

### whom you've heard from today. 21 

### And as my colleague, Jordan, said 22223

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### earlier, we would have wished to have you hear 1 

### from more of our members, many of whom have been 2 

### directly affected by the dirty energy economy, 3 

### but the limited notice of these hearings and 4 

### their locations have limited the opportunities 5 

### for them to weigh in on these plans. 6 

### At National People's Action, we believe 7 

### that the energy market is already shifting away 8 

### from coal and other fossil fuels, as the cost of 9 

### renewables like wind and solar drops, but 10 

### importantly, the Clean Power Plan gives 11 

### government the opportunity to do more to speed 12 

### the transition from dirty energy towards a clean 13 

### sustainable future. 14 

### Indeed, no less than the fate of our plan 15 

### rests upon speeding up this transition. Like 16 

### others here, we believe that more can and should 17 

### be done to limit carbon emissions and protect our 18 

### planet, and we urge the EPA to reject false 19 

### solutions such as natural gas, nuclear, and 20 

### biomass that simply trade one dirty energy source 21


### for another. 22224

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### But just as importantly, this plan gives 1 

### federal and state governments a chance to make 2 

### the emerging clean energy economy not only more 3 

### sustainable, but more equitable. This is vital, 4 

### as a shifting energy market may well preserve 5 

### existing inequalities rather than alleviate them 6 

### without government action. 7 

### In particular today, I'd like to speak 8 

### about the Clean Energy Incentive Program and call 9 

### for it to be strengthened, expanded, and made 10 

### mandatory. 11 

### The Clean Energy Incentive Program is a 12 

### crucial part of the Clean Power Plan. By 13 

### encouraging early investment in renewable energy 14 

### and energy efficiency in low-income communities, 15 

### it helps turn the tide toward equity in the 16 

### environment and in the economy, and the Clean 17 

### Energy Incentive Program is a positive step 18 

### towards making sure that the carbon market set up 19 

### by the Clean Power Plan doesn't mirror the 20 

### mistakes of the past. 21 

### Low-income communities bear the burden of 22225

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### the dirty energy economy we have now. Power 1 

### plants and dirty factories are disproportionately 2 

### located in such communities. After decades of 3 

### underinvestment and pollution, low-income 4 

### communities desperately need investment to begin 5


### to recover. 6 

### We applaud the Clean Energy Incentive 7 

### Program and the EPA's Double Match Program, and 8 

### we urge you to expand the program and the 9 

### set-asides for renewable energy that serve 10 

### low-income communities. Early investments in 11 

### renewable energy and energy efficiency for our 12 

### community should be maximized. 13 

### To truly see the Clean Power Plan live up 14 

### to its potential, participation in the Clean 15 

### Energy Incentive Program should be made mandatory 16 

### for all states, and the program should be 17 

### significantly expanded. Without participation in 18 

### the program in every state, low-income 19 

### communities and communities of color will 20 

### continue to bear the unfair burden of toxic air 21 

### and criminal underinvestment. 22226

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### We've got to put people in the planet 1 

### over profits, and that means universal 2 

### participation in this essential program. 3 

### The renewable energy and efficiency 4 

### programs in low-income communities have the power 5


### to transform. You've heard from a number of 6 

### people from our affiliate, PUSH Buffalo, and it's 7 

### amazing to see what they've done on the West Side 8


### of Buffalo. 9 

### But this kind of project takes a lot of 10 

### time to get off the ground, and we hope there's a 11 

### time window for projects to qualify for the CEIP 12 

### and receive allowances, will be expanded to help 13 

### more communities and community groups like PUSH 14 

### Buffalo to take advantage of this fantastic 15


### program. 16 

### And once the compliance period begins, 17 

### the investment in renewable energy should ramp up 18 

### and not taper off. The set-aside for renewable 19 

### energy should be dramatically increased. The 20 

### pool for renewable energy and -- for energy 21 

### efficiency and renewable energy shouldn't just be 22227

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### 5 percent. It should be 50 percent, and 1 

### renewable projects in low-income communities 2 

### should have their own dedicated allowances. 3 

### Thank you for listening to my testimony. 4 

### [Applause.] 5 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 6 

### MR. ISHIBASHI: My name is Ben Ishibashi, 7 

### spelled I-s-h-o-b-a-s-h-i. I am here with 8 

### National People's Action as well, and I'm here 9 

### again to support the Clean Power Plan. 10 

### It represents a historic first step 11 

### towards reducing carbon emissions here in the 12 

### United States, and for that reason, we support 13 

### it. 14 

### That being said, it does not go nearly 15 

### enough in terms of either reducing emissions or, 16 

### more importantly, in protecting communities of 17 

### color and low-income communities from the effects 18 

### of air pollution and climate change. 19 

### As you've already heard from numerous 20 

### speakers today, people of color and low-income 21 

### people in this country and around the words are 22228

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### hit first and worst by climate change and by air 1 

### pollution. At the same time, structural 2 

### discrimination ensures that they also have the 3 

### hardest time bouncing back from these disasters. 4 

### For any Clean Power Plan that seeks to 5 

### change -- the Clean Power Plan can only be judged 6 

### to be a success if it helps end this inequity and 7 

### end a dirty and corporate-controlled energy 8 

### system. To that end, we need a federal 9 

### implementation plan and model rule that includes 10 

### robust renewable and energy-efficiency 11 

### set-asides, including in the Clean Energy 12 

### Incentive Program, and that also ensures that 13 

### these set-asides focus on creating good-paying, 14 

### lasting green jobs in communities of color and 15 

### low-income communities and also contains a focus 16 

### on creating lasting community wealth that stays 17 

### in communities instead of being extracted out by 18 

### big corporations. 19 

### Above all, we need a Clean Power Plan, 20 

### both federal, state -- both at federal and state 21 

### level that focuses on protecting communities of 22229

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### color from disproportionate impacts, and then 1 

### finally, the best way that we can ensure that 2 

### people achieve this at all levels is by expanding 3 

### public comment and community engagement 4


### processes. 5 

### Thank you. 6 

### [Applause.] 7 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 8 

### We are going to take two more speakers 9 

### and then a short break. So I will next call 10 

### Jacob Ward and Paul Saliterman. 11 

### Mr. Ward or Mr. Saliterman? 12


### MR. WARD: Mr. Ward. 13


### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Ward. Is Mr. 14 

### Saliterman in the room? 15 

### [No audible response.] 16 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. We may be breaking a 17 

### little sooner than I expected. The floor is 18



### yours. 19 

### MR. WARD: How are you all doing today? 20 

### Hello. Thank you for coming to Pittsburgh to 21 

### hear our perspective on this issue. My name is 22230

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### Jake Ward, and I'm here speaking in strong 1 

### support of an adamantly implemented and enforced 2


### Clean Power Plan. 3 

### I currently work in the clean energy 4 

### industry, but I didn't used to. Upon graduating 5 

### with a master's in geo-environmental studies from 6 

### Shippensburg University in 2011, I subsequently 7 

### worked for First Energy for 2-1/2 years in their 8 

### mapping and engineering sector. 9 

### Although the job paid very well, I found 10 

### the CEO and company as a whole to be very out of 11 

### touch with the urgency of climate change. During 12 

### my time there, there were several instances of 13 

### lobbying efforts by First Energy to block 14 

### legislation that would require them to limit 15 

### their carbon pollution. These actions are a 16 

### symptom of the overall epidemic that has been 17 

### taking hold in America for decades. That 18 

### epidemic is profits over people, and I chose to 19 

### discontinue my participation. 20


### I now work as a salesman for Green 21 

### Mountain Energy, a pollution-free electricity 22231

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### supplier in this state's deregulated electricity 1 

### market. I also work with a Pittsburgh-based 2 

### company called Zero Fossil as a part-time 3 

### contractor. They provide clean energy solutions 4 

### for off-grid residential use, events, food 5 

### trucks, and various other small-scale energy 6 

### needs. I'm also assisting a friend's startup 7 

### business that will provide environmentally 8 

### friendly home-building and renovation products to 9 

### residential customers. 10 

### I took a big pay cut to start working 11 

### clean energy and the green movement, but I don't 12 

### mind because I know how important it is, and I 13 

### want to be a part of the solution and not the 14 

### problem. 15 

### The Clean Power Plan is a huge step in 16 

### the right direction for the people on this 17 

### planet, particularly low-income minority and 18 

### indigenous communities most affected by climate 19 

### change, as you've heard many times today. It is 20 

### very important that the United States be a leader 21 

### on this issue. We have been making the vast 22232

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### majority of our electricity the same way for 200 1


### years. 2 

### Now the vast majority of experts on the 3 

### subject of climate change are telling us that 4 

### continuing to burn fossil fuels at the current 5 

### rate will lead to a less-livable planet. We will 6 

### see more drought, more famine, more displacement, 7



### more war. 8 

### We are already seeing stronger climatic 9 

### phenomena around the world today. We need the 10 

### vast majority of our energy to come from 11 

### sustainable sources, and we need to make it 12 

### happen now. 13 

### I urge you to be strict in the 14 

### implementation of the Clean Power Plan, create 15 

### strong incentives for states to come up with 16 

### strategies that make the most sense for them, and 17 

### if they fail or refuse, be adamant about setting 18 

### up a federal plan for them and enforce it. 19 

### Future generations are depending on you to make 20 

### these tough choices and fight for them. This 21 

### fight is about people, not profits, but with that 22233

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### said, the Clean Power Plan is projected to 1 

### generate $93 billion annually in benefits by 2 

### 2030. Sounds like two birds with one stone to 3



### me. 4 

### I also urge you to set up a program to 5 

### protect the employment of long-time fossil fuel 6 

### workers in the transition to clean energy as 7 

### well. Find a way to give them opportunities in 8 

### clean energy. This transition will be much 9 

### smoother, and there will likely be less denial 10 

### about the issue of climate change if they are 11 

### confident their employment is not threatened. 12 

### In my experience as a salesperson with 13 

### Green Mountain Energy over the past year, I have 14 

### spoken with hundreds of people and have been in a 15 

### unique position to gage regional sentiment on 16 

### this issue. I can tell you there's a ton of 17 

### support for clean energy in the region, even many 18 

### who are willing to pay more for it, but as you 19 

### know, Pittsburgh has significant roots in fossil 20 

### fuel, and there are many pro status quo naysayers 21


### as a result. 22234

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### But I have to tell you, that friend's 1 

### startup business I'm helping with, one of the 2 

### owners used to work as a boilermaker for 20 3 

### years. He worked incredibly long hours in 4 

### extreme cases, in some cases life threatening, 5 

### and worked in a culture where drug addiction was 6 

### not uncommon based on stories he shared with me. 7 

### He is now a firm believer in upgrading our 8 

### economy to one that is clean energy based. The 9 

### culture of clean energy is a positive one, and 10 

### the future is bright. And the pun is intended on 11


### that. 12 

### We can reach the tipping point into a 13 

### sustainable economy, and this plan is crucial and 14 

### essential in achieving it. 15 

### Thank you for all you're doing and 16 

### listening to us here in Pittsburgh. Thank you. 17 

### [Applause.] 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 19 

### Do we have any other registered speakers 20 

### in the room? 21 

### [No audible response.] 22235

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### MR. KOERBER: Okay. If not, I have 2:48. 1 

### We will be on break until 3 p.m. We will resume 2 

### at that time. Thank you. 3 

### [Recess taken from 2:48 to 3 p.m.] 4 

### MR. KOERBER: It is three o'clock, but I 5 

### am going to wait a few more minutes before we get 6 

### started until I get another card with speakers. 7 

### So we will break until we get more registered 8 

### speakers, so hang loose. 9 

### [Recess taken 3:01 to 3:30 p.m.] 10 

### MR. KOERBER: I have 3:30. Why don't we 11 

### go back into session. We have a couple people in 12 

### the room who are waiting to testify. We will 13 

### take their testimony, and then if there is nobody 14 

### else, we will go back on break again, but we'll 15


### do the two. 16 

### I will call Areli Lopez, and, sir, I'm 17 

### sorry. I don't have a card for you, so -- you 18 

### can come up now, if you want. Ms. Lopez? 19 

### MS. LOPEZ: Yep. Sorry. Thanks. 20 

### I want to thank the EPA for this 21 

### opportunity. My name is Areli, A-r-e-l-I, Lopez, 22236

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### L-o-p-e-z, and I'm here with National People's 1 

### Action. 2 

### I'm here in support of the Clean Power 3 

### Plan put forth by the EPA, and I'm also here to 4 

### urge the EPA to create a federal implementation 5 

### plan that prioritizes low-income and communities 6 

### of color who not only live in the city, but in 7


### the suburbs and rural areas as well. 8 

### My community, Waukegan, Illinois, which 9 

### is in Lake County, is predominantly Latino and 10 

### houses one of the oldest coal power plants in the 11 

### country, which makes Lake County not meet the 12 

### national standard for permissible levels that are 13 

### deemed safe. It is the largest emitter of sulfur 14 

### dioxide and major contributor to particulate 15 

### matter in mercury in Lake County, according to 16 

### the Illinois EPA. 17 

### When mercury from coal plants fall into 18 

### waterways, it accumulates in plants, organisms, 19 

### and fish. The neurotoxin can cause serious 20 

### developmental impairment in fetuses and children, 21 

### and at higher concentrations, it can damage the 22237

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### nervous system and organs of adults. 1 

### The popularity of fishing near the 2 

### Waukegan Coal Plant puts Lake County residents in 3 

### direct risk of ingesting mercury. The 4 

### Environmental Law and Policy conducted a study 5 

### finding that the premature deaths and associated 6 

### health impacts of pollution from the Lake County 7 

### coal plant in Waukegan totaled $86 million 8 

### annually in health costs in 2010. 9 

### The Clean Air Task Force also found that 10 

### pollution from the power plant contributed to 570 11 

### asthma attacks, 34 premature deaths, 54 heart 12 

### attacks, 21 incidences of chronic bronchitis, and 13 

### 35 asthma ER visits. For all these reasons, we 14 

### need a strong federal implementation plan that 15 

### reduces pollution and creates green jobs for 16 

### low-income and communities of color, which also 17 

### prioritizes affordable, accessible wind and solar 18 

### energy over nuclear and natural gas for all of 19 

### our communities. 20 

### Thank you. 21 

### [Applause.] 22238

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Nicely done. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### Sir? 3 

### MR. MAKOWKA: Thank you for the 4 

### opportunity to comment. My name is Claus 5 

### Makowka. That's C-l-a-u-s. Makowka is 6 

### M-a-k-o-w-k-a. And I'd be happy to provide a 7 

### written copy of my statement. 8 

### While I am a member of Penn Environment, 9 

### the Sierra Club, and the Citizens Climate Lobby, 10 

### I am speaking for myself as a concerned citizen. 11 

### I am aware of the serious consequences of 12 

### climate change, both current and projected, due 13


### to CO2

### emissions from the burning of fossil fuels. 14

### As a result, I recently purchased a fully 15 

### electric vehicle for my use as a personal car, 16 

### and I'm now doubly motivated to see reduction of 17


### CO2

### emissions from electricity generation, both 18 

### for home use and for powering my car. 19 

### Therefore, I strongly support the CPP as 20 

### an initial step to achieve such reductions. I 21 

### also recognize that the EPA is constrained to 22239

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### work within existing statutory authority in 1 

### developing the CPP. I understand the use of the 2 

### BSER categories as a way to provide objective 3 

### measurable criteria for emission reduction. 4 

### I support imposing a gradually rising fee 5 

### on carbon emissions with all revenue collected to 6 

### be returned to citizens equally, sometimes known 7 

### as the "carbon fee and dividend." I recognize 8 

### that the EPA lacks the statutory authority to 9 

### implement a national carbon fee and dividend. My 10 

### understanding was that previous drafts of the CPP 11 

### permitted states to use carbon fee and dividend 12 

### at the state level, as states could enact the 13 

### necessary laws. 14 

### In reading the final rules, this option 15 

### is no longer explicitly mentioned. If it remains 16 

### an option, then additional guidance appears 17 

### necessary on acceptable ways to bridge this 18 

### approach to the required reductions. Otherwise, 19 

### a clear statement explaining why the option was 20 

### removed would be helpful. 21 

### One of my specific concerns is the impact 22240

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### on lower income families and communities. These 1 

### communities already are affected 2 

### disproportionately by air pollution and are most 3 

### vulnerable to climate change, including extreme 4 

### weather and especially storm damage due to poor 5 

### construction and location. 6 

### Most approaches to satisfying the CPP 7 

### will also raise energy prices, particularly 8 

### during the transition to more efficient 9 

### technologies. The cost benefits of these 10 

### improved technologies typically reach poorer 11 

### communities last. 12 

### The carbon fee and dividend helps to 13 

### mitigate the effect on lower income families and 14 

### communities by rebating the energy cost related 15 

### to carbon emissions. This is effective because 16 

### poorer families and communities are likely to 17 

### receive a proportional -- a larger proportional 18 

### dividend due to the lower energy use when 19 

### compared to affluent families and communities. 20 

### This is both from direct energy use for smaller 21 

### homes, for example, and from indirect energy use 22241

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### due to buying less products. Products cost 1 

### energy to produce and ship, and so their price 2 

### includes a significant indirect energy cost. 3 

### Thank you. 4 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 5 

### [Applause.] 6 

### MR. KOERBER: You can give a copy to the 7 

### court reporter. That would be great. Thank you. 8 

### Appreciate you being here, sir. 9 

### I'd like to call Eva Resnick-Day. 10


### MS. RESNICK-DAY: Hello. 11


### MR. KOERBER: Hello. Good afternoon. 12


### MS. RESNICK-DAY: Good afternoon. I'm 13 

### Eva. I'm here as a Concerned Citizen. So I have 14 

### grown up in Pittsburgh my entire life, and I have 15 

### watched this city transform from one that was 16 

### identified as a coal town based off of a fossil 17 

### fuel economy to one that is embracing and leading 18 

### the way in new sustainable solutions in a diverse 19 

### and creative economy. 20 

### But the legacy of the coal industry left 21 

### its mark on our city. You can see the soot lines 22242

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### on our old buildings and homes to this day, black 1 

### and ominous. Pittsburgh still tops the list of 2 

### cities most polluted by short-term exposure to 3 

### particles and has some of the worst air quality 4 

### in the country. We're still at risk from a 5 

### legacy left to us, and our generation is at high 6 

### risk of extreme weather events, crop failure, and 7 

### potential conditions to which humans will not be 8 

### able to adapt. 9 

### We need to leave a better legacy, and 10 

### that starts today, and the Clean Power Plan is a 11 

### really historic step forward. As you guys know, 12 

### it will prevent 100,000 asthma attacks, 6,000 13 

### premature deaths annually. It's cutting carbon 14 

### from the dirtiest coal-fired power plants and 15 

### investing in clean energy and creating jobs. 16 

### But I think the most important thing is 17 

### that it's signaling to the world that the United 18 

### States is taking climate change seriously as we 19 

### lead into talks in Paris. We realize our 20 

### disproportionate contribution to climate change 21 

### and are willing to take serious action. 22243

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### This is really great, but with global 1 

### livelihood on the line, the UN saying that 2 

### 400,000 people are dying each year from climate 3 

### change already, with those numbers only rising, 4 

### we have to push past what we think is possible 5 

### and look towards what we know is necessary. 6 

### So I implore you to make the carbon 7 

### reductions even stronger in the federal plan and 8 

### mostly ensure that the model federal plan 9 

### protects and benefits minority, low-income, and 10 

### indigenous communities that have long borne the 11 

### brunt of fossil fuel pollution and are feeling 12 

### the impacts disproportionately today. We have to 13 

### resist giveaways of allowance to polluted 14 

### sources, and really we have to be shifting the 15 

### way that we live, and that starts now. 16 

### And my little personal story I wanted to 17 

### share, so I just got back from hiking the entire 18

### Appalachian Trail from Georgia all the way to 19 

### Maine. 20 

### [Applause.] 21


### MS. RESNICK-DAY: Thanks. That's not 22244

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### what it's about. But there's something -- 1 

### MR. KOERBER: Wow! Wow! I'm impressed. 2 

### MS. RESNICK-DAY: Thanks. I appreciate 3 

### it. 4 

### But there's an interesting thing on the 5 

### trail called the "Virginia blues" that everyone 6 

### will talk about when you're on the trail. And 7 

### it's really interesting because once you get to 8 

### Virginia, you've already hiked over 500 miles and 9 

### been on the trail for months, but Virginia is 10 

### where 75 percent of people quit and get off. And 11 

### everyone is like, "I'm not going to feel those 12 

### blues. Why is that happening?" 13

### And what happens is when you get to 14

### Virginia, you end up walking along highways. You 15 

### end up walking past power plants and factories, 16 

### and the air immediately changed. And we're 17 

### living in the environment, so all day, you are 18 

### walking through this, like, really terrible 19 

### pungent smell, and you start moving slower. You 20 

### start breathing differently. You start snapping 21 

### at each other more than you were before. 22245

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### And it was crazy for me how much that 1 

### impacted everyone's day-to-day life, that 75 2 

### percent of people that start the trail quit in 3 

### Virginia. And when I felt that day to day and 4 

### realized what that did to people's lives, I was 5 

### thinking, "I've only had to put up with this for 6 

### a few days on the trail, and then I'll be in 7 

### these gorgeous mountains with great air." And I 8 

### had the privilege of living like that for the 9 

### rest of my life, but there are people that live 10 

### by these factories all the time, every day. 11 

### That's their environment, and that affects you 12 

### day to day in a really intense way, and I think 13 

### that feeling and those people are the ones that 14 

### we have to keep in mind when we're making these 15 

### really strong plans. 16 

### So thank you so much for everything you 17


### do. 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 19 

### [Applause.] 20 

### MR. KOERBER: Do we have any other 21 

### registered speakers on the room? 22246

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### [No audible response.] 1 

### MR. KOERBER: If not, we will go on 2 

### another short break. Thank you for your 3 

### patients. 4 

### [Recess taken from 3:11 to 3:43 p.m.] 5 

### MR. KOERBER: One more registered 6 

### speaker, Mimi Darragh. And if you want to come 7 

### up to the table in the front of the room. If you 8 

### could state and spell your name for the record, 9 

### that would be great. And then whenever you're 10 

### comfortable, feel free to begin. 11 

### MS. DARRAGH: My name is Mimi Darragh, 12 

### M-i-m-i, D-a-r-r-a-g-h. I want to thank you for 13 

### this opportunity to comment on the Clean Power 14


### Plan. 15 

### I work as a parish social minister as St. 16 

### Sylvester Church, Catholic Church in Brentwood, 17 

### which is in the South Hills of Pittsburgh, and at 18 

### our parish, we were very excited about Pope 19 

### Francis' encyclical Laudato Si, which is on care 20 

### for our common home, which came out this past 21 

### summer. And we have been studying the document 22247

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### at the parish and talking about ways that as 1 

### individuals, we can change our own behavior to 2 

### live out what Pope Francis talks about and what 3 

### our faith requires of us. 4 

### But, as we have learned in studying the 5 

### encyclical, individual change is not enough, as 6 

### powerful as that may be, but there needs to be an 7 

### institutional response and one from the community 8 

### as a whole; in this case, the state of 9 

### Pennsylvania and the whole U.S. We cannot just 10 

### recycle our way to a better environment or just 11 

### drive less to have better air quality. 12 

### Here in Pittsburgh, even though we have 13 

### cleaned up our air from the days of the steel 14 

### mills, our area and all of the Allegheny County 15 

### still has some of the worst air quality in the 16 

### country. Asthma is afflicting more and more 17 

### people, and the numbers of those suffering from 18 

### both airborne allergies and those for mold are 19 

### also on the rise, and climate change will only 20


### make these worse. 21 

### Of the 132 children in our parish school, 22248

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### 16 have asthma so severe that they have to have 1 

### inhalers and medicine nearby. 2 

### The Clean Power Plan will enable our 3 

### state to require power companies to operate their 4 

### plans more cleanly and effectively, giving us 5 

### better air quality, but also to encourage them to 6 

### be forward thinking, to develop renewable sources 7 

### of energy that are reliable and affordable, so 8 

### that the environment will be cleaner and 9 

### healthier for us, for our children and 10 

### grandchildren. 11 

### This Clean Power Plan gives the state 12 

### flexibility in devising how it will implement it, 13 

### and it's phased in gradually, again, making it 14 

### possible for business to plan and diversify. But 15 

### I'm also glad that the plan has a backup so that 16 

### if the state of Pennsylvania cannot come up with 17 

### its own plan, that the federal government has a 18 

### plan for that. 19 

### I remember driving through Pittsburgh as 20 

### a child and seeing the fires and smoke from the 21 

### steel mills and smelling the sulfur, rotten egg 22249

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### smell, and when I asked about what that was, I 1 

### was told that it was the smell of jobs. 2 

### I don't think we have to accept that 3 

### today. We no longer have to make a choice 4 

### between clean air and jobs. With changes in the 5 

### technology for power plants and also the 6 

### development of green jobs, solar, wind, 7 

### geothermal, we can clean up the air and create 8 

### good-paying jobs at the same time, but we need to 9 

### want to do that. Pennsylvania can be, and should 10 

### be, a leader on this. 11 

### In coming back to Pope Francis' 12 

### encyclical, he calls this Earth "our common 13 

### home," and we see through is eyes and through the 14 

### eyes of faith that we are all connected. 15 

### Everything in the world is connected, so that 16 

### what we do individually as citizens of 17 

### Pennsylvania and the United States affect our 18 

### brothers and sisters in this country and around 19


### the world. 20 

### Getting climate change under control is 21 

### still possible with actions like the Clean Power 22250

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### Plan. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 3 

### [Applause.] 4 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you for being here, 5 

### and thank you for the work that you do. 6 

### I'll ask if there are any other 7 

### registered speakers in the room. 8 

### [No audible response.] 9 

### MR. KOERBER: If not, guess what? Short 10


### break. 11 

### [Recess taken from 3:49 to 4:02 p.m.] 12 

### MR. KOERBER: I have 4:02. We will go 13 

### back in session. We have another speaker. I'd 14 

### like to call Brenda Smith. 15 

### Ms. Smith, if you'd like to come up to 16 

### the table, and if you could provide your name and 17 

### spelling for our court reporter. Thank you. 18 

### MS. SMITH: My name is Brenda Smith, 19 

### B-r-e-n-d-a, S-m-i-t-h. I'm the executive 20 

### director of the Nine Mile Run Watershed 21

### Association, here in Pittsburgh. We're an 22251

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### environmental organization that focuses on 1 

### restoring and protecting our watershed, which is 2 

### the site of the largest urban stream and wetlands 3 

### restoration that the Army Corps of Engineers has 4 

### completed anywhere in the United States. 5 

### And one of the big challenges that we 6 

### work on is helping our watershed residents to 7 

### work towards more sustainable stormwater 8 

### management in our watershed, and we've also 9 

### become very involved in that issue regionally. 10 

### And in that context, we are more and more 11 

### aware all the time of the serious impact that 12 

### global climate change is already having in the 13 

### stormwater management arena. The 10-year storm 14 

### now arrives with alarming regularity every 2 or 3 15 

### years, and new records are being constantly set 16 

### for amount of rainfall on a given date or amount 17 

### of rainfall within a 1-hour period, and it makes 18 

### it extremely challenging to figure out more 19 

### sustainable solutions for stormwater management 20 

### than those that we are currently using 21 

### You may be aware that our region is under 22252

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### a consent decree to reduce our sewer overflows, 1 

### and we're grappling as a region with how to 2 

### afford to do that and how to do it in a way that 3 

### doesn't make some of our other environment 4 

### problems worse, such as our air quality problem. 5 

### So that brings me to my other point, 6 

### which is that taking off my professional hit and 7 

### just from a personal standpoint as a resident of 8 

### Pittsburgh, one of my biggest concerns is our air 9 

### quality. I love this city, and I would like to 10 

### stay here, but I think more and more often these 11 

### days about whether or not that's really a good 12 

### idea because we have the second worst air quality 13 

### in the United States. And I'm very hopeful that 14 

### this Clean Power Plan that's been proposed could 15 

### help us to eventually get to a point where it's 16 

### not as dangerous to exercise out of doors here as 17 

### it currently is. 18 

### Our incidence of cancer is much higher 19 

### than the national average because of our air 20 

### quality, and I just think that when we know that 21 

### there are alternatives available that we could 22253

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### readily use right now, it's really unconscionable 1 

### to just continue in the same situation, putting 2 

### people's health and lives at risk to just 3 

### continue using the same kind of dirty power. 4 

### So I really strongly advocate, both 5 

### professionally and personally, for the adoption 6 

### of the Clean Power Plan, and I appreciate this 7 

### opportunity to present my concerns. 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 10 

### being with us today. 11 

### Do we have any other registered speakers? 12 

### [No audible response.] 13 

### MR. KOERBER: If not, we will go on break 14 

### again. Thank you. Be patient. 15 

### [Recess taken from 4:05 to 4:15 p.m.] 16 

### MR. KOERBER: I have 4:15. We'll go back 17 

### in session, and I'll call Lyndsey O'Day. 18 

### You have an umbrella. It's not raining, 19 

### is it? 20 

### MS. O'DAY: Oh, not yet. 21 

### [Laughter.] 22254

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### MR. KOERBER: It was beautiful at lunch. 1 

### MS. O'DAY: I am Lyndsey O'Day, spelled 2 

### L-y-n-d-s-e-y, O, apostrophe, D-a-y. I'm here 3 

### with the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine 4 

### Workers of America. This August, our 74th 5 

### national convention was held, and delegates 6 

### across the country came together to decide the 7 

### policy of the union for the next two years, and I 8 

### would like to share our environmental resolution 9 

### entitled "Protect Our Planet for Future 10 

### Generations." 11 

### Since UE's convention in 2013, the 12 

### climate change crisis has worsened. The 13 

### non-renewable energy industry and its paid-for 14 

### politicians jeopardized the future of our planet. 15 

### In Michigan v. EPA in 2015, the pro-business U.S. 16 

### Supreme Court struck down EPA regulations that 17 

### would limit emissions from coal power plants 18 

### because the EPA refused to consider the cost to 19 

### the polluters. 20 

### Climate change deniers have also upped 21 

### their game. In 2015, both Florida and Wisconsin 22255

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### prohibited state employees from even using the 1 

### term "climate change." 2 

### The science is unquestionable. 3 

### Ninety-seven person of peer-reviewed scientific 4 

### literature affirms humans are causing global 5 

### warming. UE has long rejected the false choice 6 

### between jobs and the environment. Destruction of 7 

### jobs and pollution have a common cause: 8 

### corporate desire to privatize profits and 9 

### socialize costs. Pollution and other 10 

### environmental destruction disproportionately 11 

### affect the poor, working class, communities of 12 

### color, and indigenous people. 13 

### UE has long called for public ownership 14 

### of the energy industry to prevent racketeering 15 

### and price gouging. It is now clear that this 16 

### step is also necessary to preserve our planet. 17 

### We believe that bringing the voice of 18 

### workers to environment issues is necessary, not 19 

### only to protect our economic interests, but also 20 

### to develop creative solutions that can stop 21 

### global warming and preserve the environment. 22256

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### Having our nation's economy based on sustainable 1 

### energy not only protects our planet, but has the 2 

### potential to create millions of well-paying jobs. 3 

### A report from the U.S. Council of Mayors 4 

### projects that 4.2 million new green jobs can be 5 

### added to the U.S. economy by 2038. The barriers 6 

### to the creation of a safe renewable sustainable 7 

### energy future no longer -- engineering costs or 8 

### technology, it is a political problem. 9 

### This is not about people losing jobs. 10 

### The majority of jobs in coal mining and in 11 

### hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, to yield 12 

### natural gas are non-union. This is about 13 

### creating better, safer jobs. 14 

### UE fully supports the concept of a just 15 

### transition, whereby workers and their communities 16 

### don't bear the burden of the transition from a 17 

### fossil fuel-based economy to one based on 18 

### renewable energy. A just transition would create 19 

### opportunities for displaced workers in their 20 

### communities to participate in the new economic 21 

### order through compensation for layoffs, loss of 22257

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### tax base, and other negative effects. The energy 1 

### profiteers want a world where both labor and 2 

### environmental standards are in a race to the 3 

### bottom. If they get their way, we get poverty 4 

### and a poisoned planet. 5


### To defend them -- to defeat them and 6 

### ensure the right of the people to live, work, and 7 

### play safe, healthy and clean environments, we 8 

### need to form stronger alliances between trade 9 

### unions, communities, and the environmental 10


### movement. 11 

### Therefore, be it resolved that this 74th 12 

### UE convention, one, encourages the union at all 13 

### levels to educate members about climate change 14 

### and creative solutions that reduce carbon output 15 

### while creating good union jobs; two, urge the 16 

### environmental movement to incorporate just 17 

### transition into the platforms and to push for 18 

### solutions that curb the power of corporations 19 

### rather than create market incentives; three, 20 

### demands that all environmental policies, 21 

### including those targeting climate change, 22258

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### incorporate just transition for workers in 1 

### economies affected; four, seeks renewable 2 

### alternatives to environmentally destructive 3 

### methods of energy production; five, supports 4 

### worker-oriented efforts to address climate 5 

### change, such as Apollo Alliance for good jobs in 6 

### clean energy, the Environmental Justice and 7 

### Climate Change initiative, and trade unions for 8 

### energy democracy; and six, reaffirms the solution 9 

### UE proposed to the energy crisis in the 1970s. 10 

### Public ownership of the energy industry and 11 

### massive investment in renewable energy in order 12 

### -- and price gouging and preserve our 13 

### environment. 14 

### It is clear today that we the people have 15 

### a demand of the EPA in drafting a model for the 16 

### Clean Power Plan. They are, as follows: one, 17 

### ensure the carbon pollution standards in the 18 

### model federal plan achieve the pollution 19 

### reductions promised in the final Clean Power Plan 20 

### or even further reductions; two, ensure that 21 

### states address potential carbon pollution from 22259

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### new power plants to achieve overall electric 1 

### sector reductions in carbon pollution; three, 2 

### protect low-income consumers by maximizing 3 

### utilities' incentives to invest in energy 4 

### efficiency, which lowers household energy bills; 5 

### four, ensure that the model federal plan protects 6 

### and benefits minority, low-income, and indigenous 7 

### communities that have long borne the brunt of 8 

### fossil fuel pollution and may be most likely to 9 

### experience the impacts of climate change; and 10 

### five, resist giveaways of allowances up to the 11 

### most polluting sources. 12 

### It is important to acknowledge that the 13 

### Clean Power Plan is a step in the right 14 

### direction, but it is only the first step. To 15 

### ensure that we do indeed protect our planet for 16 

### future generations, as our resolution states, we 17 

### need public ownership of the energy industry and 18 

### massive investment in renewable energy for the 19 

### benefit of all and not for the profit of the few. 20 

### Thank you. 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 22260

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### I'm curious. Can you give me 30 seconds 1 

### on UE in terms of its scope as far as industries 2 

### and geography? 3 

### MS. O'DAY: UE is the only democratic 4 

### union in the United States. We are a trade 5 

### union, and our history has been organizing 6 

### electric industry, such as General Electric, 7 

### Westinghouse, but since then, we have expanded 8 

### our scope to include public sector workers and 9 

### cooperatives. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Thank you. 11 

### MS. O'DAY: Thank you. 12 

### MR. KOERBER: Appreciate you being here 13 

### today. 14


### MS. O'DAY: Thanks. 15 

### MR. KOERBER: We have no other registered 16 

### speakers. We will go on break again. 17 

### [Recess taken from 4:21 to 4:40 p.m.] 18


### MR. KOERBER: Good afternoon. I have 19 

### just about 4:40. We have another registered 20 

### speaker. I'd like to call David Masur. 21 

### Good afternoon, sir. 22261

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### MR. MASUR: Good afternoon. Thank you 1 

### for having me. My name is David Masur. It's 2 

### spelled M as in Matthew, a-s as in Sam, u-r. I'm 3 

### assuming I can just roll or -- 4 

### MR. KOERBER: The floor is yours, sir. 5 

### MR. MASUR: Okay, great. As I said, my 6 

### name is David Masur, and I am the executive 7 

### director for PennEnvironment. PennEnvironment is 8 

### a citizen-based statewide environmental advocacy 9 

### group with over 150,000 contributing members, 10 

### volunteers, and activists from all over the 11 

### Commonwealth. I am also a resident of 12 

### Philadelphia. 13 

### First and foremost, I want to thank EPA 14 

### for holding this hearing today and allowing me to 15 

### testify. I also want to thank EPA for its 16 

### leadership in tackling climate change and moving 17 

### full steam ahead with the Clean Power Plan, a 18 

### truly historic initiative to tackle global 19 

### warming and reduce CO2

### emissions from the single 20 

### largest source in the U.S., coal-fired power 21 

### plants. 22262

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### As a father of two young children, my 1 

### 5-year-old son Owen and my two-year-old daughter 2 

### Evan, I cannot put into words my frustration with 3 

### the gridlock in Congress, the influence of the 4 

### nation's largest global warming polluters, and 5 

### the ensuring inaction in Washington, D.C., and 6 

### state capitals across the nation. This has led 7 

### the U.S. to kicking the can down the road on real 8 

### action to address climate change for far too 9 

### long. 10 

### I now have renewed faith that with EPA's 11 

### leadership under the Clean Power Plan, we will 12 

### finally be able to take the first crucial steps 13 

### to solve climate change for our kids and for 14 

### future generations. 15 

### This is paramount, given that climate 16 

### change is undoubtedly the most profound challenge 17 

### facing our planet today for more extreme weather 18 

### like Super Storm Sandy, which wreaked havoc on 19 

### Pennsylvania and the region to hotter summer days 20 

### that will inevitably trigger more asthma attacks 21 

### and other respiratory ailments to the state's 22263

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### residents and asthma sufferers like myself and my 1 

### son Owen to an ongoing list of other negative 2 

### effects for our planet, economy, health, and 3 

### security. 4 

### Given this, I specifically want to 5 

### applaud EPA's Clean Power Plan for creating a 6 

### system that allows the state to create and 7 

### customize its own state-specific plan, while 8 

### including the federal implementation plan that 9 

### serves as a much needed backstop for ensuring 10 

### that all states carry their weight to reduce 11 

### their carbon footprint and tackle climate change. 12 

### That being said, I'm also hopeful that 13 

### the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania uses this 14 

### opportunity afforded under the Clean Power Plan 15 

### to move full steam ahead with its own state 16 

### implementation plan that is firmly based in 17 

### promoting truly clean energy sources, like wind 18 

### and solar power, favoring energy conservation and 19 

### efficiency, and protects low-income communities 20 

### and Pennsylvania's historic coal communities in 21 

### the transition. 22264

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### At the same time, I hope the Commonwealth 1 

### uses this opportunity to make sure we're 2 

### including pollution both from existing and new 3 

### power plants in our state plan and ideally going 4 

### well above and beyond the benchmarks set by EPA 5


### under the Clean Power Plan. 6 

### Again, I want to thank EPA for holding 7 

### this hearing today and allowing me to testify on 8 

### this important issue, and thank you for your 9 

### continued leadership to promote solutions to 10 

### climate change. 11 

### Thank you. Have a great rest of the day. 12 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 13 

### for being here today. 14 

### We will go no break until we have more 15 

### registered speakers. 16 

### [Recess taken from 4:44 to 5 p.m.] 17 

### MR. KOERBER: The time is 5 p.m., and we 18 

### have no more speakers. I will adjourn this 19 

### afternoon's session. We will be in a recess 20 

### until 6 p.m. for our dinner break, so have a good 21 

### dinner, and for those of you coming back, we will 22265

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### re-adjourn in this room at 6 p.m. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### [Dinner recess taken from 5 to 6 p.m.] 3 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Good evening. This is 4 

### David Campbell with the U.S. Environmental 5 

### Protection Agency. It is Thursday, November 6 

### 12th, and we are opening the public hearing on 7 

### the proposed federal plan and model rules for the 8 

### Clean Power Plan for existing power plans. 9 

### It is now 6 p.m., and we are going to be 10 

### in recess. 11 

### [Recess taken from 6 to 6:21 p.m.] 12 

### MR. CAMPBELL: We're going to reopen this 13 

### evening's hearing. 14 

### Good evening. My name is David Campbell 15 

### with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. I 16 

### am the chair of today's public hearing. Thank 17 

### you for coming out today. 18 

### Joining me on the panel today are Emily 19 

### Linn and my colleague, Bob -- Robert Stoltzfus. 20 

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 21 

### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 22266

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### or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 1 

### U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing 2 

### carbon pollution from power plants is an 3 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 4 

### climate change and providing a more certain 5 

### future for our environment, our health, and 6 

### future generations. 7 

### We are here today to listen to your 8 

### comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 9 

### model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 10 

### existing power plants. 11 

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 12 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 13 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 14 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 15 

### those states with affected electricity generating 16 

### units, or EGUs, that the EPA determines have 17 

### failed to submit an approvable 111(d) state plan 18 

### by the relevant deadline set in the emission 19 

### guidelines. 20 

### In those states where a federal plan may 21 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 22267

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### the same emission guidelines for affected power 1 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 2 

### would not require additional control requirements 3 

### or impose additional costs. 4 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 5 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 6 

### able to submit a state plan which, if approved, 7 

### will allow the state and its sources to exit the 8 

### federal plan. States may take delegation of 9 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 10 

### order to become the primary implementers or 11 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 12 

### the implementation of a portion of a federal 13 

### plan. States operating under a federal plan may 14 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 15 

### to facilitate compliance and lower cost to the 16 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 17 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 18 

### for those states that are developing their own 19 

### state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 20 

### rate-based and mass-spaced model trading rules in 21 

### Summer 2016. A state program that adheres to the 22268

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### model trading rule provisions specified in the 1 

### rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 2 

### approvable. There are stand-alone portions of 3 

### the model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 4 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 5 

### emission rate credits, or ERCs, that would be 6 

### approvable even if a state adopted an approach 7 

### that differs in other respects from the model 8


### rule. 9 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 10 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 11 

### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 12 

### affected EGUs, or electric generating units, 13 

### located in Indian Country. CO2 emissions 14 

### performance rates for these facilities were 15 

### finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 16 

### Information on how the EPA will reach out 17 

### to communities throughout the comment period and 18 

### an overview of the actions that EPA is taking to 19 

### ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 20 

### disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking. 21 

### If you would like more details on the 22269

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### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 1 

### the registration desk. 2 

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 3 

### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 4 

### that will help make this evening's hearing run 5 

### smoothly. 6 

### First, please be sure that you have 7 

### checked in at the registration desk, even if you 8 

### are not planning to speak today, and if you 9 

### signed up to speak online or by phone but haven't 10 

### told us that you are here, please step out to the 11 

### registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 12 

### you have arrived. 13 

### I will call up speakers in pairs or solo. 14 

### When your name is called, please come to the 15 

### speakers table at the front of the room. When I 16 

### call on you to speak, please state your name and 17 

### spell it for the court reporter. Your comments 18 

### will be transcribed and included in the record of 19 

### comments on the proposed rule. 20 

### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 21 

### comments. We have a timer light to help you know 22270

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### how much time you have left to speak. When it 1 

### turns red, that's a signal that you are -- excuse 2 

### me. When the light turns from green to yellow, 3 

### that means you have 1 minutes remaining. When it 4 

### turns red, that is a signal that you are at 5 5 

### minutes, and it's time to stop. When you have 6 

### finished speaking, please remain at the table 7 

### until the person next to you has completed his or 8 

### her testimony. 9 

### We are here to listen to you today; 10 

### however, panel members may ask questions to 11 

### clarify your comments. 12 

### I will then call up the next pair of 13 

### speakers and so on. If you have brought a 14 

### written copy of your testimony, please give that 15 

### to the staff at the registration desk before you 16 

### leave today, and if you happen to have an extra 17 

### copy, please provide one to the court reporter. 18 

### We will put any written comments 19 

### submitted today in the official docket for the 20 

### proposed rule. We also have comment cards 21 

### available at the registration desk if you would 22271

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### like to submit additional written comments today. 1 

### If you want to comment in writing later, stop by 2 

### the materials table near the registration desk, 3 

### and pick up a copy of instructions for submitting 4 

### written comments. 5 

### Comments must be received by January 6 

### 21st, 2016. Let me assure you that EPA gives 7 

### just as much consideration to comments received 8 

### in writing as we do to comments we receive a 9 

### public hearings like this one. So if you have 10 

### more comments that you would like to provide the 11 

### EPA, please submit them by the comment period 12 

### deadline, again, January 21st, 2016. Your 13 

### comments will be reviewed. 14 

### If you have any questions during the day, 15 

### please see the staff at the registration desk. 16 

### Someone will assist you. 17 

### Thank you again for taking the time this 18 

### evening to share your comments on the EPA's 19 

### proposal. We can now begin the hearing. 20 

### I'd like to call our first speaker, 21


### Russell Thorsen. 22272

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### MR. THORSEN: Hi. Should I spell my name 1 

### or -- R-u-s-s-e-l-l, and T-h-o-r-s-e-n. 2 

### So I'm an environmental study student, 3 

### and I feel like this rule is really important to 4 

### be passed. I know Pennsylvania has a pretty 5 

### groggy history of never really passing stuff 6 

### until it actually has to be done by the federal 7 

### government, so it would be really great if the 8 

### federal government does make a big plan where we 9 

### have to cut carbon emissions. 10 

### I know even not even looking at global 11 

### warming, the amount of really health concerns 12 

### that carbon emissions, especially coal plants, do 13 

### to the surrounding communities are really 14 

### dangerous and really bad for everyone around 15


### them. 16 

### And I know that growing up, I really 17 

### would love to have less fossil fuels going on. 18 

### It would just be nice to not have that this -- 19 

### because it's a pretty big detriment to the 20 

### environment. As one of the best, I guess, 21 

### economies in the world, we kind of have the 22273

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### responsibility to cut our carbon emissions as 1 

### well as invest in renewable energies. 2 

### Yeah, that's about it. 3 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Russell. 4


### MR. THORSEN: Yeah. 5 

### MR. CAMPBELL: You may be excused. 6 

### MR. THORSEN: Okay. 7 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, it's a little -- 8 

### it's a formal process, so there's not a lot of 9 

### back-and-forth, so you make your testimony and 10


### then -- 11 

### MR. THORSEN: I can just go? 12


### MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 13 

### MR. THORSEN: Okay. 14 

### MR. CAMPBELL: And you may sit in the 15 

### audience and listen to other speakers, or you may 16 

### adjourn. 17 

### MR. THORSEN: Okay. 18 

### Could I ask you guys this question just 19 

### for a paper I have to write? 20 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Not in the public hearing 21



### process. 22274

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### MR. THORSEN: Okay. 1


### MR. CAMPBELL: You can talk to folks at 2 

### the registration desk or other colleagues. 3 

### MR. THORSEN: Okay. All right. Well, 4 

### thanks for listening. 5 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Having no further speakers 6 

### waiting to speak, we will now be in recess. 7 

### [Recess taken from 6:30 to 6:47 p.m.] 8 

### MR. CAMPBELL: The session is back in 9 

### order. I'll call the next speaker. Please state 10 

### and spell your name for the court reporter, 11 

### please. 12 

### MS. SWERDLOW: I'm Naomi, N-a-o-m-I, 13 

### Swerdlow, S-w-e-r-d-l-o-w, and I wanted to say 14 

### that Obama had announced the plan in August. 15 

### It's about time to implement the Clean Power 16 

### Plan, and coal power plants are known by the EPA 17 

### to threaten the health of Americans, and many 18 

### children are growing up in asthma, especially in 19 

### areas where they're affected by air quality. And 20 

### there are also smells in certain areas. You can 21


### see the smoke and all the awful stuff that comes 22275

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### out of it. 1 

### And there's climate changes affecting 2 

### everywhere that comes from -- that also comes 3 

### from the coal and the pollution, so we need to 4 

### protect our future. 5 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you for your 6 

### testimony. 7 

### The hearing is now in temporary recess. 8 

### [Recess taken from 6:48 to 7:03 p.m.] 9 

### MR. CAMPBELL: We'll call the hearing 10 

### back into session. 11 

### Mr. McLaughlin, whenever you're ready, 12 

### please state your name and spell it for the court 13 

### reporter, please. 14 

### MR. McLAUGHLIN: For sure. My name is 15 

### Shane McLaughlin. That's S-h-a-n-e, M-c, capital 16 

### L, a-u-g-h-l-i-n. 17 

### As I said, my name is Shane. I am a 18 

### student at the University of Pittsburgh, so I 19 

### represent the students and the youth community. 20 

### What brought this legislation hearing 21 

### about is obviously the issue of climate change 22276

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### and its causes, and this adversely affects the 1 

### health of the people on the planet in this area 2 

### as well as across the globe, disproportionately 3 

### affecting people of color, lower socioeconomic 4 

### status, and developing countries. 5 

### As many scientific studies have shown, 6 

### the way we produce and consume energy is a huge 7 

### contributor to this problem, the pollution that 8 

### is destroying our planet, and if action is not 9 

### taken soon, our poison planet will continue to 10 

### lash out at us, intensified natural disasters, 11 

### displacement of thousands of people, drought and 12 

### countless other effects are already a reality 13 

### around the world and will only intensify. 14 

### We are on the brink of growing so big and 15 

### so fast that we'll make this planet uninhabitable 16 

### for ourselves and for future generations, and so 17 

### it is absolutely essential that we completely 18 

### transform our energy economy as quickly as 19 

### science, government, and people will allow. 20 

### The Clean Power Plan is a fantastic start 21 

### to this, and it is a relief to know that we are 22277

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### finally making laws regulating the pollution from 1 

### power plants, and so I would really urge you guys 2 

### to make this plan as strong as you possibly can 3 

### and to make sure that it can be enforced on the 4 

### federal level if states do not implement their 5 

### own version. 6 

### Well, I think the Clean Power Plan is a 7 

### fantastic start. I think that this is an issue 8 

### -- this is a moral issue that we needs to dig 9 

### deeper into. I know that this is an 10 

### environmental agency and not an economic one, but 11 

### I would love to see part of the federal plan 12 

### include stipulation or incentives for greener 13 

### power sources and companies to be located in the 14 

### areas affected by coal power plants. 15 

### Our current energy economy grants huge 16 

### profits to big business while taking advantage of 17 

### the worker and societies around them, and I hope 18 

### that this plan will take into account this 19 

### injustice. This is a huge opportunity, as this 20 

### plan will create thousands of clean and 21 

### sustainable jobs, and these jobs should ideally 22278

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### go to the people who will be losing theirs 1 

### because of this. 2 

### It is fantastic to cut emissions, but it 3 

### is imperative that the people are not left out of 4 

### this equation because our fate is intertwined and 5 

### connected with that of the planet, and this 6 

### impending catastrophe caused by our lifestyles 7 

### and societal structures must be connected to the 8 

### solutions in a way that addresses these societal 9 

### problems. 10 

### Discussing the issue of climate change, I 11 

### would like to close with the idea that when I 12 

### talk about this with my friends and fellow 13 

### students, we all see the situation as a golden 14 

### opportunity to address and combat a vast array of 15 

### issues that are a reality in our society today. 16 

### And that is all I have. I would like to 17 

### thank you at the EPA for giving us the 18 

### opportunity to have our voices heard, and thank 19 

### you for protecting the one thing that makes human 20 

### life possible. And I hope this plan is strong 21 

### and fierce and the first of many of its kind. 22279

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### Thank you. 1 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you for your 2 

### testimony. 3 

### The hearing will now be in temporary 4



### recess. 5 

### [Recess taken from 7:07 to 8 p.m.] 6 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I'm going to bring the 7 

### hearing back into session. It is now 8 p.m. 8 

### There are no speakers waiting to testify. I will 9 

### now close tonight's session. 10 

### [Whereupon, at 8 p.m., the hearing 11 

### recessed, to reconvene at 9:12 a.m., Friday, 12 

### November 13, 2015.] 13

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