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22–338 PDF 2017

S. Hrg. 114–594 

NOMINATION OF ANDREW MAYOCK 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

NOMINATION OF ANDREW MAYOCK TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR 

MANAGEMENT, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET 

JUNE 28, 2016 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire 

JONI ERNST, Iowa 

BEN SASSE, Nebraska 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

CHRISTOPHER R. HIXON, Staff Director 

GABRIELLE D’ADAMO SINGER, Deputy Chief Counsel for Governmental Affairs 

NATHAN R. KACZMAREK, Counsel, Subcommittee on Regulatory Affairs 

and Federal Management 

GABRIELLE A. BATKIN, Minority Staff Director 

JOHN P. KILVINGTON, Minority Deputy Staff Director 

KATHERINE C. SYBENGA, Minority Chief Counsel for Governmental Affairs 

BRIAN F. PAPP, JR., Minority Professional Staff Member 

ELLEN W. HARRINGTON, Minority Professional Staff Member 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

BENJAMIN C. GRAZDA, Hearing Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 1 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 2 

Senator Ayotte .................................................................................................. 6 

Senator Peters .................................................................................................. 8 

Senator Ernst .................................................................................................... 13 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 18 

Prepared statement: 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 23 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 24 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, JUNE 28, 2016 

Andrew Mayock to be Deputy Director for Management, Office of Management and Budget 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 26 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 28 

Letter from the Office of Government Ethics ................................................. 45 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 47 

(1) 

NOMINATION OF ANDREW MAYOCK 

TUESDAY, JUNE 28, 2016 

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:07 p.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. James Lankford, 

presiding. 

Present: Senators Lankford, Ayotte, Ernst, Carper, McCaskill, 

Tester, Heitkamp, Booker, and Peters. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD 

Senator LANKFORD. Good afternoon. Today we will consider the 

nomination of Mr. Andrew Mayock for the position of Deputy Director for Management at the Office of Management and Budget 

(OMB). 

OMB’s role in evaluating agency policies and setting funding priorities is vital for good government. It is important to have qualified leaders at OMB to ensure that the Executive Branch agencies 

operate effectively. 

Andrew Mayock is a native of Rockford, Illinois. He received his 

undergraduate degree from the University of Illinois, a Master’s of 

Public Administration from the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, and a law degree from George Washington University 

(GWU). Mr. Mayock has a distinguished career as a public servant, 

including serving as Special Assistant to the Chief of Staff at the 

Department of the Treasury; as Deputy Vice President, Millennium 

Challenge Corporation; and for the past 3 years, he has held several senior positions at OMB. 

Mr. Mayock has also served in the private sector as a senior associate for development and international diplomacy at Booz Allen 

Hamilton and as an international trade consultant at Harvard University’s Center for Business and Government. 

In addition to this impressive resume, Mr. Mayock possesses the 

necessary experience and legal and policy background to serve at 

OMB. 

Committee staff reached out to a variety of Mr. Mayock’s colleagues and affiliates who spoke highly of his judgment and abilities. Committee staff also had the opportunity to interview Mr. 

Mayock on an array of issues. He has thoughtfully and competently 

answered each question to our satisfaction. 

To date, the Committee has found you to be qualified for the position you have been nominated to, and I look forward to speaking 

with you more today about your experience and accomplishments 
2 

and how you intend to apply them as the Deputy Director for Management. 

We have also had the opportunity to be able to sit in my office 

and be able to visit for a while and be able to talk through key 

issues in preparation for this conversation today. I look forward to 

finishing up that conversation and other questions. I also look forward to you publicly introducing your family, which I hope you will 

take advantage of the time when I recognize you in a moment to 

be able to do that in the moments ahead. 

I would recognize the Ranking Member, Senator Carper, if you 

would like to make an opening statement. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. I would. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

It is great to see you, your wife, particularly to see your mom, 

your father-in-law, your kids, and other friends and extended family. I remember a number of years ago when someone brought in 

young children to, I think it was, their mom’s confirmation hearing, 

and it was for a very demanding job. And I said sort of 

lightheartedly to the kids, ‘‘Well, say good-bye to your mom because 

you will not see her again until Christmas.’’ [Laughter.] 

At that point, I thought they were going to run out of the room 

and take their mom with them. It was not quite—— 

Senator LANKFORD. And later they found out you were correct. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator CARPER. It was not quite that bad, but it was interesting. So you will get to see your dad as much as you want to. 

And you will get to see your wife every night for dinner—well, 

maybe not. [Laughter.] 

But we are delighted you are all here. These jobs actually that 

we have and that you have, there is a lot of hard work, and I just 

want to say to your mom, thanks to you, and to your dad for raising you and imparting the kind of values that are clearly identifiable and recognizable today. To your wife, it is great to have you 

here and for your willingness to share your husband. And you have 

two really sweet kids, and it is great that they are here. 

I would never, as I said to them earlier before you arrived, I 

would never have brought in a 1-year-old and maybe a 3-year-old 

to my confirmation hearing, and it is either an extraordinary demonstration of your calmness or maybe how well behaved your children are. I am not sure which it is. 

But, in any event, all of that notwithstanding, OMB has a mission that is near and dear to our hearts on this Committee. We are 

really interested in performance, and we are interested in a government that functions well and cost-effectively. 

As we all know, OMB plays a number of critical roles, including 

the formulating of our agency budgets and overseeing management 

issues that span literally the entire Federal Government. The office, and particularly the position that Mr. Mayock has been nominated to fill, plays an important role in helping agencies tackle serious challenges such as the upcoming Presidential transition, improper payments of over $100 billion per year, real property management issues, information technology (IT) management, and improving performance across government, to name just a few. 
3 

I am pleased that the President has chosen to nominate you, Mr. 

Mayock. And in addition to many other important jobs in this administration, I understand that you recently served as the Associate Director for General Government Programs at OMB. This position has provided you with a background in Federal budgeting 

that gives you, I think, a different perspective than many of your 

predecessors. And I think it will serve you well as you lead, hopefully lead, the management side at OMB. 

Simply put, Mr. Mayock has the opportunity to help unite the 

budget and management side of the office, and I believe that could 

be especially valuable. His nomination also comes at a time when 

the Administration is in its final 7 months. It is not like they are 

turning the lights out and leaving tomorrow, but 7 months to go. 

Some may think that means it is not critical to take action to confirm him. I disagree with that sentiment, and obviously so do the 

others on this Committee. 

One of the greatest virtues of our Nation is the peaceful transition of power from one President to the next. I will never forget 

being in Central America at a Presidential summit hosted by the 

President of Costa Rica, Oscar Arias, who later won the Nobel 

Peace Prize. We had Presidents from all the Central American 

countries that were there. I think it was the President of Guatemala who said to me—this was probably the late 1980s. He said, 

‘‘In your country you take for granted that every 4 years you will 

have an election. Somebody will win, somebody will lose. And whoever wins becomes the President of your country.’’ He said, ‘‘That 

has never happened in my country.’’ 

So we take this for granted, and we should not, but there is a 

big challenge that lies ahead, and you are a big part of this with 

respect to this transition, and we appreciate your willingness to 

tackle that as well. 

One of the significant pieces of legislation that we have enacted 

here this year was something called the ‘‘Edward ‘Ted’ Kaufman 

and Michael Leavitt Presidential Transitions Improvements Act’’ 

which became law earlier this year. That act incorporates many of 

the lessons learned from the Obama and Romney transition teams. 

And we look forward to learning more today about preparations for 

the upcoming transition and, more importantly, your role, if you 

are confirmed, with the Agency Transition Directors Council and 

the steps that are being taken at OMB to try to ensure a seamless 

transition of power. 

Again, we thank you for being here. We look forward to talking 

with you today and hopefully to working with you in the months 

to come. Thank you so much. 

Senator LANKFORD. It is the custom of the Committee to swear 

in all witnesses that appear before us. So if you do not mind, please 

stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony 

you are about to give before this Committee will be the truth, the 

whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? 

Mr. MAYOCK. I do. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. You may be seated. Let the 

record reflect the witness answered in the affirmative. 

Mr. Mayock, once again I would encourage you to be able to introduce your family, but we would be very pleased to be able to re-
4 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Mayock appears in the Appendix on page 26. 

ceive your opening statement, and then we will followup with some 

questions here from the dais after that. Mr. Mayock. 

TESTIMONY OF ANDREW MAYOCK,1 NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY 

DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT 

AND BUDGET 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator Lankford. Thank you, Ranking 

Member Carper and Members of the Committee, Senator Booker. 

I am truly honored to be considered by this Committee as President Obama’s nominee for Deputy Director for Management of the 

Office of Management and Budget. 

I am grateful to have my family here with me this afternoon. I 

am deeply appreciative for their support and encouragement. And 

as for introductions, I have my wonderful 86-year-old mother right 

behind me, Anne; my lovely wife, Cindy; my father-in-law, Steel. 

On his lap are our young son, Tai, who is about to turn 1 year old; 

and Mariella on the end. 

I am really delighted for them to be here, and thank you, Senator 

Carper, for your confidence in them. [Laughter.] 

And your confidence in me. 

I would initially like to recognize three of my seven siblings who 

are here today—Chris, Joe, and John—and their spouses and children have joined us. 

Senator CARPER. Would they raise their hands, please? OK. 

Mr. MAYOCK. There is the Mayock section. [Laughter.] 

My parents instilled the value of public service in all of their 

children, and I am proud to represent my parents and my siblings 

today at this hearing. 

I want to thank President Obama for nominating me to this position. It remains an extraordinary honor to continue to serve this 

administration since I started in 2009. I would also like to thank 

OMB Director Shaun Donovan for his confidence in me. And I also 

appreciate the continued trust and support of all my colleagues at 

the extraordinary institution that is OMB, where I have served for 

the last 3 years. 

Furthermore, I appreciate the Members of this Committee and 

their staff for taking the time to meet with me prior to this hearing. If confirmed, I look forward to working closely together in the 

coming months and building on the important relationship that 

OMB has with this Committee. 

The Deputy Director for Management position helps lead the 

President’s Management Agenda, a comprehensive and forwardlooking plan to modernize and improve government to ultimately 

deliver faster, better, and smarter services to citizens and businesses. The President’s Management Agenda is built on four pillars: effectiveness, efficiency, economy, and people and culture. The 

administration is implementing these through a series of CrossAgency Priority Goals, which were introduced by this administration to improve coordination across multiple agencies to drive performance and accountability. 

If confirmed, I plan to build on the progress made by this administration. I believe that the actions under the four pillars and the 
5 

related Cross-Agency Priority Goals have led to measurable 

progress. For example, this administration has launched successful 

efforts to modernize and improve citizen-facing services, reduce the 

Federal real property footprint, improve how we buy as a government, and eliminate wasteful spending. 

If confirmed, I would also seek to improve other initiatives in 

which the Deputy Director for Management is a front-line leader, 

including Federal cybersecurity, supporting digital services delivery 

to citizens, improving the infrastructure permitting processes, and 

enhancing the background investigations and security clearance 

process, to name a few. 

Furthermore, the Deputy Director for Management plays an important role, as Senator Carper noted, on the administration’s commitment to a smooth Presidential transition. This includes implementing the statutory requirements of the Ted Kaufman and Michael Leavitt Presidential Transitions Improvements Act of 2015, 

as noted. Under this act, the Deputy Director for Management facilitates agency planning efforts, including co-chairing the Agency 

Transition Director’s Council comprised of 19 of the government’s 

largest agencies. If confirmed, I would focus on supporting a seamless transition. 

I believe my background in the public and private sectors helps 

prepare me for the role of Deputy Director for Management. This 

experience includes senior leadership roles, as noted—Associate Director of General Government Programs and Senior Adviser for 

Management—where I have worked with Cabinet agencies and others on a wide variety of budget, policy, and operational issues. My 

experience in senior leadership roles at the U.S. Department of the 

Treasury and the Millennium Challenge Corporation provide valuable agency operational experience and perspective regarding the 

governmentwide management challenges and opportunities that 

the Deputy Director for Management faces. 

Additionally, in my private sector work at Booz Allen Hamilton, 

I gained experience in generating performance improvements 

through process streamlining, improving deployment of technology, 

and strengthening organizational effectiveness. This combined experience offers a strong foundation for delivering on the President’s 

Management Agenda and the requirements of this office. 

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, I would be 

pleased to answer any questions you have. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you, Mr. Mayock. 

We have three quick mandatory questions, and then Senator 

Carper and I are going to defer our questions to the end because 

we each have 25 minutes of questions for you, and so we are going 

to go ahead and do that at the end. [Laughter.] 

But there are three quick mandatory questions, and then I will 

recognize Senator Ayotte for her questions. 

Is there anything that you are aware of in your background that 

might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to 

which you have been nominated? 

Mr. MAYOCK. No. 

Senator LANKFORD. Do you know of anything, personal or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably 
6 

discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been 

nominated? 

Mr. MAYOCK. No. 

Senator LANKFORD. Do you agree without reservation to comply 

with any request or summons to appear and testify before any duly 

constituted Committee of Congress if you are confirmed? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Yes, I do. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. I would recognize Senator Ayotte 

for her questions. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AYOTTE 

Senator AYOTTE. Thank you, Chairman. I want to thank you, Mr. 

Mayock, for being here and for your willingness to serve in this position, and your family as well. 

I wanted to ask, OMB has taken significant steps to better manage IT investments, and that has been an issue that this Committee has been very interested in. This is really important since 

the Federal Government is projected to spend more than $80 billion this year on IT, and we passed out of this Committee and into 

law a bill called the ‘‘Federal Data Center Consolidation Act.’’ And 

that bill focuses on the agency’s requirements for data center consolidations and optimization plans to do that. And we believe—I 

think this is a very bipartisan bill—that there is a lot of cost savings we could achieve with that, and better performance measures. 

So OMB has stated that it is working to close thousands of Federal data centers that could be consolidated, and I certainly applaud those efforts. But I also want to point out that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has recently cautioned that OMB 

must remain dedicated to actively overseeing the Federal agencies’ 

data center consolidations and that there are more savings that 

can be realized. And some agencies, like the Department of Defense 

(DOD), are really aggressively going at this in terms of consolidation and others that have reported little or no progress, so there 

seems to be a gap in agency-wide. 

So what actions will you take to realize the billions of dollars in 

savings in this area and to make sure that we appropriately consolidate data centers and also make sure that savings is important, 

but we also want to make sure that we are having this happen 

across agencies versus some agencies really going quickly, some 

really not embracing this concept? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the opportunity 

to respond to that question and highlight the efforts that OMB is 

undertaking to date and am committed, if confirmed, to working 

with you and members of the Committee on staying on top of this 

issue and making further progress on this issue. 

Broadly writ, I would say a few things regarding the data center 

consolidation. One is, as I referred to the President’s Management 

Agenda in my opening statement, this is our No. 1 priority in the 

President’s Management Agenda: delivering smarter IT. One of the 

tools that we received from Congress to help deliver on that promise, that agenda item, is the funding that we receive through the 

Information Technology Oversight and Reform (ITOR) piece of the 

budget, and that has allowed the office of the Federal Chief Information Officer (CIO) to bring on staff that oversees—who are deep-
7 

ly knowledgeable in IT and who work with the budget staff in OMB 

to closely oversee agencies’ budgets and agencies’ IT operations. 

That, in addition to the tool that this Congress has provided OMB 

through the passing of the Federal Information Technology Acquisition Reform Act (FITARA) has created a powerful framework for 

OMB to make progress on that and to deliver on that. To date, we have delivered $3.8 billion in savings through that 

work. About half of that savings is through the data center consolidation. I think you quite accurately assessed that we have more 

work to do, that there are agencies throughout the Federal Government. I think that we are in a position now 2 or 3 years into ITOR 

funding and building the resources with OMB and working with 

the budget side of OMB to do a better job of overseeing those agency partners and working with those agency partners to deliver on 

those savings. 

The last thing I would note, Senator, is the role that our partner 

and colleagues at the GAO play, as you noted. We work closely 

with them. This is on the high-risk list, as you know, and we appreciate their views, and their suggestions and their partnership 

also helps us in being able to work with agencies to deliver more 

and better on this agenda item. 

Senator AYOTTE. Thank you, and I am glad to hear you say that 

this is going to be an important priority for you, because I do think 

there are a lot more cost savings we can realize. This has been a 

strong bipartisan effort, and this is an area where we certainly can 

do more across agencies. So I appreciate that. 

Since we are talking about GAO, in March GAO published a report titled, ‘‘OMB Improved Implementation of Cross-Agency Priority Goals, but Could Be More Transparent About Measuring 

Progress.’’ And as you know, a lot of the best opportunities to protect taxpayer dollars requires coordination where you have multiple Federal agencies involved. And recognizing this, in 2010 Congress required OMB to coordinate with agencies to develop outcome-oriented Federal Government priority goals. However, the latest GAO report states that agencies are not sufficiently setting targets or reporting on efforts to develop performance measures. And 

also thinking about when we invest in taxpayer dollars, we want 

to make decisions on where to prioritize based on performance 

measures so that we are really putting our resources in the bestperforming programs. 

So if these goals are priorities, then it seems essential that we 

have information to show progress and achievement, and given the 

important role of OMB of coordinating in this endeavor, will you 

make sure that these GAO recommendations are acted upon? Because I think this is another area where we could improve our performance overall with Federal agencies to the American people and 

that the better coordination and the better we are measuring 

progress and performance measures, we can know whether we are 

effectively spending taxpayer dollars. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you again, Senator, and I think that reflects 

another tool that we received via this Committee that we worked 

closely with through the Government Performance and Results Act 

(GPRA) Modernization in 2010 and our ability to go create the 

framework that led to the Cross-Agency Priority Goals that led to 
8 

the Agency Priority Goals that the President’s Management Agenda and the President’s Management Council seeks to then go execute on. 

As to the GAO report in particular, we were quite pleased on one 

hand for GAO to say to us, hey, you are doing a good job, in part. 

We acknowledge GAO’s assessment that there is more to do, there 

is a lot more to do in GPRA Modernization. 

Senator AYOTTE. This is one of those no good deed goes 

unpunished. [Laughter.] 

Mr. MAYOCK. It absolutely is. A very fair assessment. So I think 

we have more work to do. I think there is a lot of work that we 

can do and, if confirmed, I can do, in the remaining months to really lay a stronger foundation for the next administration. I think we 

have made progress by posting them on Performance.gov and making quarterly reports show up so that people can track the CrossAgency Priority Goals, people can track the Agency Priority Goals. 

Can they improve as goals themselves and can we improve the 

presentation so it is an easier piece to follow for our stakeholders, 

for the American people? Absolutely. And those are the kind of 

things that we are working on, and if confirmed, that is the kind 

of agenda that I will be working on and would be pressing very 

hard on. 

Senator AYOTTE. Thank you. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you. 

Senator LANKFORD. Senator Peters. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS 

Senator PETERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. Mayock, 

congratulations on your nomination. It’s good to have an opportunity to ask you a couple questions and get to know you better before the actual vote for your appointment. 

Last week, I introduced, along with my colleagues Senators 

Gardner, Thune, and Nelson, the American Innovation and Competitiveness Act, which is legislation that follows on the America 

Creating Opportunities to Meaningfully Promote Excellence in 

Technology, Education, and Science (COMPETES) Act, and which 

basically authorizes programs for the National Science Foundation, 

the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), and activities for the Office of Science and Technology Policy, including 

Federal science development and Science, Technology, Engineering, 

and Math (STEM) programs. I am pleased to say that tomorrow we 

are actually going to be doing a markup on that legislation in the 

Commerce Committee as well and are expecting it to pass and then 

go to the Senate floor. 

In putting this legislation together, I worked very closely with 

Senator Gardner, and we held a series of roundtables over the last 

few months, engaging the stakeholder community and scientists 

and educators, folks throughout the technology enterprise here in 

the country, and folks who work with Federal grants in particular. 

And we heard in those roundtables that some of the broad restrictions on Federal employee travel that were put in place by OMB 

after the 2012 General Services Administration (GSA) conference 

has had a disproportionate impact on Federal researchers who rely 

on attending these conferences to stay engaged with and to dis-
9 

seminate their Federal research findings to the broader scientific 

and technical community. And as I know you will appreciate, 

science and technology works better when the findings are broadly 

shared and a number of researchers can have an opportunity to understand what others are doing so that they can follow on with that 

work as well. 

So as a result of that, we included a provision in the act which 

will direct the OMB to consult with the Office of Science and Technology Policy and heads of other Federal research agencies, science 

agencies, to revise these policies for approving Federal researcher 

attendance of scientific and technical conferences. 

So I understand some of that work is already being undertaken 

at OMB, but I want to kind of get your thoughts on that. And if 

confirmed, will you commit to seeing this rule revision through so 

that we can ensure that the Federal Government continues to encourage the broad dissemination of Federal research findings and 

the engagement of Federal researchers with the scientific and technological community? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator, and let me note first off that 

the administration believes in the importance of keeping our competitive edge. The administration makes a major priority of technology and science, as you know, and we definitely want to support 

the community as much as we can to further their work. 

At OMB, as you know, we put the controls in place in order to 

make sure that we had appropriate measures to make sure there 

is not wasteful spending in that area. It is time on occasion to review those controls to see how those are working and how they are 

affecting various communities. 

As you noted, we are in touch with Dr. John Holdren’s office, and 

we have been working with Dr. Holdren’s office to understand and 

get data as to the impacts. And we are committed to continuing 

that work, and if confirmed, I am certainly committed to working 

with Dr. Holdren and finding the right balance between our research community and our budget controls. 

Senator PETERS. Great. And I understand there is a balance 

there, but I appreciate your willingness to work on that. It is certainly something very important and something we heard very loud 

and clear in those roundtables that we held with researchers. 

We also heard during the working group series that researchers 

often spend as much as 40 percent of their time fulfilling administrative requirements associated with applying for and maintaining 

Federal research grants. So in the legislation that will be before 

the Committee tomorrow, we have made it a priority to reduce this 

burden as much as possible. We have included a provision that establishes an OMB-led interagency working group that will, among 

other things, explore uniform grant proposals, uniform financial 

disclosures, an investigator repository, and review regulations on 

research progress reports. 

So, if confirmed, will you commit to prioritizing this work to reduce administrative burdens on Federal researchers so that we can 

maximize our Federal investment in the actual research work and 

not on an awful lot of paperwork that gets in the way of researchers’ day-to-day activities? I need, first off, your commitment to 

prioritize, and then kind of your general thoughts on how we can 
10 

move this forward to make sure this is a streamlined process that 

puts money into research and not into paperwork. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you again, Senator. It is certainly a priority 

of the administration to make progress on grants and grant reform, 

and it has been something that we have worked on quite a bit over 

the past 7 years. In 2014, we put together guidance that tried to 

reduce that burden. That cut paperwork down by, as I understand 

it, 75 percent and tried to put grants.gov into place, so grants had 

a one-stop shop for people to come to and see what was available 

and see if they could apply. That work I think is something that 

we are very proud of, but that work continues. We certainly have 

more to do in that space, and that remains a high priority. 

So I can commit to you today that, A, if confirmed, it will remain 

on the priority list for us; and, B, if confirmed, we will seek to 

make progress in the coming months ahead. 

Senator PETERS. Great. I appreciate it. Thank you for your answers. 

Senator LANKFORD. Ranking Member Carper 

Senator CARPER. Thanks. Mr. Mayock, you cannot see this. I just 

said to the Chairman, I said I am watching the faces of your family 

sitting there, and your wife never has a smile far from her face. 

She has just the warmest countenance, and so—— [Laughter.] 

And I do not think she is laughing at what you are saying, but 

she is just giving you great encouragement there. 

From time to time, when we have someone nominated for a position such as yours, I reflect on the responsibilities of the Executive 

Branch and the Legislative Branch to try to make sure we spend 

taxpayer money appropriately and thoughtfully. I will never forget 

one of my early town hall meetings when I was a Congressman. A 

woman was there, and basically at our town hall meetings, people 

could raise whatever issue they wanted to. This one woman raised 

her hand, and we were talking about budget and fiscal issues, and 

she said, ‘‘I do not mind paying taxes. I just do not want you to 

waste my money.’’ That is what she said: ‘‘I do not mind paying 

taxes. I just do not want you to waste my money.’’ 

And I said, ‘‘Well, I do not either,’’ and I went on to explain some 

of the things that I was doing, that we were trying to do to make 

sure we spent her money and other people’s money in a cost-effective way. 

We have a role to play on this Committee, an oversight role, as 

you know. It is fairly broad over much of the Federal Government. 

We work very closely with GAO. We work closely with the Inspectors General (IG). We work closely with OMB. And we still have 

a fair amount of waste, ineffective spending, inefficient spending, 

and a deficit which is down from about $1.4 trillion 6 or 7 years 

ago to about a third or a quarter of that today, so that is improvement. But we still have a long ways to go. 

Why do you think, despite all of our efforts at oversight, the work 

that OMB does, the Inspectors General, GAO, now we are stuck at 

a deficit of about—it has pretty much leveled off. It is not coming 

down now. Why do you suppose we have not done even better than 

we have achieved so far in deficit reduction? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Well, I think particularly in the area of government 

waste, Senator, I would recognize and commend again this Com-
11 

mittee’s partnership with OMB and others on the legislative work 

that you have put in place on improper payments through Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Act (IPERA) and 

through Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Improvement Act (IPERIA) and the codification of the President’s initiative 

on Do Not Pay. So it would be my assessment that we have made 

a lot of progress at the kind of challenge that this is, which is 

quite—— 

Senator CARPER. Let me just interrupt you for a moment. My 

wife asks me from time to time what I want on my tombstone, and 

I have worked a lot on postal reform over the years with his predecessor, Tom Coburn. I told her jokingly one day after church when 

we were at a stoplight back in Delaware, and there was like a cemetery alongside us, and she started saying, ‘‘Well, what do you 

want on your tombstone?’’ I said, ‘‘I feel fine. I am going to be 

around for a long time. I exercise and work out and take good care 

of myself.’’ She kept saying, ‘‘Well, what do you want on your tombstone?’’ Finally, I said, ‘‘Well, how about ‘Return to Sender’? ’’ 

[Laughter.] 

And she thought about that. She did not think it was funny. I 

thought it was pretty clever. 

But the other thing they might put on my tombstone is, ‘‘He was 

really against improper payments.’’ [Laughter.] 

And I really am. We have worked this very hard, Dr. Coburn and 

I and others, and improper payments, after coming down for a couple of years, now have started going back up. They are like over 

$100 billion, about $120 billion, after going down. That is a lot of 

money. 

I am not ready to give up, but I would never give up. But why 

do you suppose that is happening? 

Mr. MAYOCK. In addition to putting the tools in place that we 

have put in through IPERA and IPERIA, we have gotten the ability to go after the root causes of the current issues. But one of the 

things that we have not done, Senator, which I hope that we could 

do—and it exists in the President’s budget of fiscal year (FY) 

2017—is there are some administrative resources through program 

integrity initiatives that could, I think, have a quite dramatic effect 

on this. 

So part of the problem is not investing in the administrative resources that would help us get on top of these issues. And I think 

until we do that, we are going to face significant challenges. And 

when we do that, I think we have an opportunity not only to spend 

that money wisely, but per program integrity initiatives generally 

also have returns on that money. 

That is my hope for the direction that we could take it in. That 

is, I think, one of the issues that is keeping us from making 

progress and perhaps one of the issues that is causing that trend 

to go in the wrong direction. 

We were also quite heartened, as partners with you in this, as 

that rate came down, and came down somewhat dramatically, but 

there is still a large base. And it is ticking up, and its latest trend 

is certainly something that we are not satisfied with and something 

that, if confirmed, it will also be a very top priority, as we have 

made it throughout the Obama Administration’s two terms. 
12 

Senator CARPER. So maybe 80 years from now when your tombstone is erected, it might also say, ‘‘He was also against improper 

payments.’’ 

Mr. MAYOCK. I might add that I am with you there on postal as 

well, as you know from my budget days. 

Senator CARPER. Yes. 

Mr. MAYOCK. So I joined in that fight as well. 

Senator CARPER. Good. 

Mr. MAYOCK. I have a lot of hope for us, Senator. 

Senator CARPER. Let me change the focus a little bit. We talked 

earlier about the Presidential transition. We just had a wonderful 

signing ceremony of the legislation that bears the name of former 

Senator Ted Kaufman and former Utah Governor Mike Leavitt, 

two of my favorite people, to further improve the process that we 

go through on the Presidential transition, to try to provide for a 

smoother transition. 

Given the complexity of the transition—and you will play a very 

significant role, as you know—what are some of the biggest challenges you think you will be facing? And how can you draw on 

maybe the lessons learned from previous Presidential transitions to 

better ensure a seamless transition? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator. I would like to thank again 

the Committee for their leadership and again passing us and the 

Executive Branch another powerful and important tool. 

Senator CARPER. Well, you all helped us shape the bill, so we 

thank you as well. 

Mr. MAYOCK. And we thank you for your partnership in shaping 

the bill. As I mentioned earlier—— 

Senator CARPER. If you do a really good job on this, we might 

name the next bill after you. [Laughter.] 

Mr. MAYOCK. Well, I had the opportunity to work with Senator 

Kaufman and Governor Leavitt as part of this. 

Senator CARPER. Are they two great guys or what? 

Mr. MAYOCK. They are two great guys. 

Senator CARPER. Love them both. 

Mr. MAYOCK. And they are so dedicated to this issue. They are 

so deep on this issue, and the amount of time that they have invested, and making sure that we are improving this cycle significantly upon the last cycle is a great testament to their patriotism. 

And I think as you mentioned earlier, the solemn task that this is, 

as you saw in Costa Rica, the fact that we are able to do this and 

do it smoothly and without issue from one party to the next is just 

an extraordinary feat of American democracy, and it is an extraordinary role to potentially have, if confirmed in this position, to be 

one of the main stewards of this law and for this activity. 

I would say as far as risks of the Presidential transition—and it 

is an important tool, again, that this law has provided to the administration, is to give the actors in the arena space to deal with 

transition versus it being hidden behind some curtain. There is an 

enormously small amount of time between the election and the inauguration, and much work needs to get done within that time and 

before that time. So creating the ability to talk about it, to engage 

in it, is and was a big risk and is, I think, in the activity that I 

have seen this year, in this election cycle, a risk that has been 
13 

mitigated quite a bit because people are very much engaged and 

people are engaged in very open environments. 

So that is really helpful, and that goes to the second risk. As I 

have had an opportunity to work with my colleagues at OMB and 

throughout the Federal Government, there is a lot of institutional 

knowledge as far as memory, but not a lot of institutional knowledge in documentation as to how a transition runs and runs 

smoothly. So we are doing a bit of reinventing the wheel that 

should be entirely unnecessary in this process. That is a risk; I 

think that is a challenge. I think it is one that we will overcome. 

Senator CARPER. I am going to ask you just to hold it right there. 

I am over my time, but we will come back for another round. And 

thank you very much for being so generous. Thank you. Thanks for 

those responses. 

Senator LANKFORD. I recognize Senator Ernst. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST 

Senator ERNST. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. 

Mayock, for being here. We appreciate it very much. 

Last year, the Senate passed the Program Management Improvement and Accountability Act, and recently, the bill passed out of 

the House Oversight and Government Reform (OGR) Committee. 

We worked with OMB in developing this legislation. So as you are 

aware, the bill gives you increased responsibility to develop a 

standards-based mode for program management that is consistent 

throughout the whole of government. And you would also be responsible for leading and establishing an interagency council on 

program management. 

Should this bill become law, will you commit to doing everything 

within your authority to implement this legislation so we can finally address the budget overruns, the schedule slips, and the 

workforce challenges that have led to huge amounts of wasted taxpayer dollars? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator Ernst, and thank you for pointing out a challenging issue that we have been working with at 

OMB, particularly through the tool that Congress gave us through 

GPRA Modernization in 2010 and setting up the framework that 

is Agency Priority Goals and Cross-Agency Priority Goals to do a 

better job to bring modern management tools to the Federal Government. 

So I am certainly committed, as I am committed to any statutory 

requirement and tool that is given to us by Congress, to execute it 

and implement it to the fullest. 

Senator ERNST. Thank you, and we appreciate the agency working with us to develop this language. So thank you for that. 

Recent studies have shown that when there is a change in party 

entering the White House, midnight regulations occur. For those 

that do not understand what ‘‘midnight regulations’’ are, it is that 

time between election day and Inauguration Day, and those midnight regulations during that time, they nearly double. So a big 

concern there. 

There are articles that suggest there are up to 48 potential midnight regulations out there before President Obama’s term winds 

down. What are you going to do to make sure these last-minute 
14 

rules are getting the review and the consideration that is necessary 

for them from the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs 

(OIRA) so we are not placing increased burdens on Americans? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question and 

appreciate the concern. As we were just discussing, a smooth, 

seamless, competent Presidential transition is of the utmost importance and priority for the President. He was very grateful for the 

work that occurred by President George W. Bush, and he has on 

numerous occasions thanked publicly the work by the Bush Administration to do that. 

There are a number of pieces, as you are pointing out, to transition and the passage of one administration to the next. The regulatory arena is certainly one of them. That is headed up by my colleague Howard Shelanski. 

What I am aware of as to our approach during this time is that 

Mr. Shelanski shared a memo with the Cabinet agencies—I want 

to say that was in December 2015—to communicate to them that 

the calendar year 2016 was a business-as-usual year, that we 

would not be in the business of the situation that you are pointing 

out. 

So I think we as an administration have communicated that to 

agencies. I think Howard Shelanski and his office have stood behind that, and I look forward to continuing to work with them as 

colleagues in OMB as we continue to push forward through the 

transition. 

Senator ERNST. OK. Certainly, I appreciate any careful review 

and consideration of any rules that might come forward, so I appreciate your time here. Thank you very much. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. 

Let me run through a couple things, and I will just kind of evaluate your answers. Now that I know that your brothers are also 

here, I would like to know—maybe the bullpen might be better to 

be able to call in for some of these things. [Laughter.] 

So we will kind of evaluate that back and forth. 

It is no secret, I spent a long time getting a chance to visit with 

some of the Federal managers to talk about some of their views on 

agencies and leadership, hiring issues, things that you are very 

aware of. In April, I had a long meeting with them just to be able 

to talk through multiple issues and to be able to really—I did not 

talk. I listened. And I wanted to be able to just hear what some 

of their prime concerns are. 

What I would like to do is just read off some of the things that 

were talked about during that time period. None of these, I think, 

will be a surprise to you, and I would be glad to be able to provide 

you a list so you do not have to take copious notes on all this as 

well. But let me just read through, and I would like to just get any 

input or any one of them that may stick out to you and say that 

is something that we have to take on and take on soon. 

As I talked with some of those leadership folks, here are the 

main things that I heard from them: issues about administrative 

leave. The vast majority wanted to shorten the acceptable length 

and clarify the specific categories for employees placed on administrative leave. They emphasized training managers to make good 
15 

decisions and a system that protects managers from wrongful retaliation, which was a very serious issue for them. 

Veterans’ preference. Now, I have to tell you, they were very 

clear. They were all eager to be able to help protect veterans’ preference. But there were some inefficiencies that they highlighted in 

the programs based on that. They complained that after a long 

search, they may end up with a veteran candidate for positions 

that are not specifically matched to that skill set, and it is frustrating for that veteran and for them. They also expressed frustration with the length of time consuming paperwork and the process 

required when attempting to select a better-qualified candidate for 

the position. 

On hiring, managers, they said, lacked the ability to effectively 

recruit, and the direct hiring authority needed to compete for the 

jobs that they know employees are best suited for into the open positions. There was a tremendous amount of disdain for USAJOBS, 

which Senator Heitkamp and I have held an open roundtable on 

that specific subject. 

Concerning bonuses, the Federal Government should reward only 

those that do exceptional work, and there is an acknowledgment 

that the surveys reflecting 99 percent of Federal employees are 

doing fully successful or better work just was not credible. 

On manager training, increased managerial training for actions, 

options, and strategies to use in relating to employees with unacceptable performance and improvement and in conducting employee performance appraisals. Managers also want more pronounced agency leadership and focus upon compliance with existing laws and regulations. 

And, finally, there was a conversation, which you would not be 

surprised on either, about some agencies are interested in dualtrack advancement which provides both technically skilled employees and those seeking supervisory roles opportunities to be able to 

move up. All managers seemed supportive of this workforce innovation. 

Any one of those in particular jump out to you that you want to 

be able to talk about? And, again, I can provide you this list that 

was part of our conversation. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Well, thank you, Senator, and I would appreciate 

the list going forward as we continue to work together to seek to 

make progress on that. 

I would say as to the list itself, most, if not all of those, ring 

quite true as to common issues that arise when connecting with 

managers. And I would also thank you. I have heard about your 

visits with managers at The Partnership for Public Service and 

otherwise, and I can say they find that to be an unusual opportunity and a real opportunity to have a candid conversation with 

you. So I think that is an important thing that you are doing by 

reaching out and reaching out at that level to engage them. 

As to what we do about it, I would say a couple things on that 

point. 

No. 1, if confirmed in this position, I have a good and great partner in Beth Cobert as the Acting Director at the Office of Personnel 

Management (OPM). She was a great partner when I was in my 

budget role at OMB, and we worked on a number of projects to-
16 

gether. And we have the opportunity through the construct of these 

two roles to continue that partnership. And I have had an opportunity as a Senior Adviser to the Director to in part continue that. 

I would note a couple initiatives for which Beth is leading the 

charge on and for which OMB is playing a strong supporting role, 

and they capture a number of the issues that are laid out on your 

list, Senator. Her Hiring Excellence Campaign that OPM has been 

leading—and it started in earnest I want to say in January—is 

doing the hard work of working through a lot of the issues that you 

noted and truly, A, myth-busting—there are a lot of myths out 

there about how the Federal Government works in the hiring 

space; and B, bringing together hiring managers and human resource (HR) managers, which is a relationship that could use a lot 

of work. 

I can tell you from my time at the Treasury Department and the 

Millennium Challenge Corporation, it is another place where, if 

confirmed for this position, I have a lot of agency experience that 

informs me about what is real and what is not real and what can 

be achieved and not achieved in the agency context. 

So I think through this Hiring Excellence Campaign, we are 

working through a number of these issues. The paperwork, the bonuses, the compliance aspect, the rotation opportunities are all a 

piece of that. I think it is an excellent campaign. I think it is a 

comprehensive campaign. It is something that we would like to, as 

we think about the last 6 months of the administration, perhaps 

put special emphasis on and really double down on. 

Senator LANKFORD. Well, I would say a lot of the conversation 

both about management and about local decisionmaking, and all 

those things that we have discussed multiple times in other hearings here, all ring true no matter who I talk to in whichever agency. So while I understand there are some myths and some issues 

there, and there is a lot more flexibility than there appears to be 

used in much of the hiring area, but there is a very long delay. 

Whether that is an administrative role or whether that is a forklift 

operator at one of our Federal facilities, it seems to be around 4 

months to be able to do a hiring. And that is a very long time to 

be able to work through the process, second only to once they retire 

out of Federal service and then work to actually get all their Federal pensions and benefits, at times we can have 4 or 5 months of 

waiting for the paperwork to be complete to get through the full 

OPM process as well in the end. 

So both in the hiring and on the retiring side, we have a very 

long delay, and those are issues in the days I hope we can work 

through for the sake of those that are quality to serve in the Federal Government and have served our Nation very well. 

Let me switch gears a little bit on what several folks have mentioned as well about OIRA. When there are disagreements between 

OIRA and the Deputy Director for Management about management 

policies for any general government effectiveness, how do we process that? Who gets the final word? Where do you think that goes? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Well, I think, Senator, if there were disagreements 

between the head of OIRA and myself, if confirmed in this position—I find there have been few to none. I have had the oppor-
17 

tunity to work with Howard and his team quite closely over the 

last—— 

Senator LANKFORD. A very good leader in that area. 

Mr. MAYOCK. A very good leader. And we do not always agree on 

everything, but we have found a way to find consensus and move 

forward as things have proceeded. But the natural place, of course, 

inside the construct of OMB would be to go to the OMB Director 

when any part of OMB is in conflict, whether it is with Howard or 

the Senior Adviser for Budget or the Senior Adviser for Management, that would be the natural venue to have an exchange. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. One last question, and then I want to 

recognize Senator Heitkamp, and that is about the high-risk issues 

that have been this wonderful long list that has been out there for 

a while. Some of those issues have been resolved during this administration. Some were inherited from two administrations ago 

and are still in process. 

How do we sustain this? And, really, this is a transition question, 

because most of those issues that are on GAO’s high-risk list are 

not going to get wrapped up in the next 7 months. It is a part of 

the Presidential transition to say this needs to be done and we are 

setting up the next administration to be able to finish that. How 

do you include that in your Presidential transition conversations, 

the high-risk list? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator. And I would note we at OMB 

see this as an extremely important role and partnership that we 

have with the Comptroller General in bringing the issues at high 

risk into OMB on a monthly basis, regardless of whether it is a direct OMB equity or a broader OMB equity. So we work very closely 

and in close partnership with Comptroller General Gene Dodaro on 

that. And I think part of the answer to your question is to maintain that pace and maintain that continuity. So it would be certainly my pledge, if confirmed, to play that role, to play that role 

every month right into January, and to hand that off to my successor, if confirmed, so that could pick right back up in February, 

No. 1. 

Senator LANKFORD. Would you anticipate there is a short list of 

undone that in the hand-off is not only trying to complete what 

needs to be done each month but also a package in that transition 

to the next agency head to say here is where we are and here are 

some ideas of what needs to be finished? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Absolutely. I think where there is agency-specific 

issues on the high-risk list, whether it is weather satellites at Commerce or mental health at Veterans Affairs (VA), that should be 

high, high, high in the transition document so if you are an agency 

landing team and you are coming in on November 9 or November 

10, you are finding out what are the highest-priority issues. GAO 

high-risk list, if you are on it, you ought to know about it as you 

cross that doorstep. The same thing on January 20. That senior 

leadership needs to have visibility on that. That senior leadership 

needs to know that there is a date coming on which they are going 

to be read in on that. 

We have GAO and IG on the list right now. I think what we can 

do—and I am happy to go back and execute this—is to drill down 

on another layer, not just any GAO engagement but specifically the 
18 

GAO high-risk engagement, lift that up so we do what I just noted, 

which is make it apparent. 

Senator LANKFORD. That would be very helpful. Senator 

Heitkamp. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you 

for your willingness to serve. I figure you will be a very good compromiser given that you are one of, what, eight? Eight, yes. You 

have me beat. I am one of seven. But I had four sisters. Are you 

fortunate enough to have four sisters? 

Mr. MAYOCK. My poor sister, I only have one. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Poor thing. [Laughter.] 

Well, I do not have a lot of time because I have to run to another 

meeting, and we have had a chance to spend some time visiting. 

But I think the most important thing that you can do during the 

time that you have left is pass along that learning, that 8 years 

an administration has, to the next administration so that we do not 

pick up from where we were before, so that we have best practices. 

I think we all know that there is room for improvement in management of Federal agencies, and as Senator Lankford talked about, 

we have spent a lot of time talking about what does that management look like, what does the hiring look like, what are the best 

practices that can be passed on and at least aid in this transition. 

I certainly hope that you will have that opportunity to share the 

knowledge and share the experience and make sure that we are not 

back here as seasoned observers and people in oversight asking the 

same questions starting from ground zero. 

We will try and do what we can to make sure that your position 

gets confirmed, but I hope that you will see it as a real opportunity 

to pass on lessons learned. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp, and thank you 

again for our meeting in the run-up to this hearing. I really appreciate your time then, and I really appreciate your presence today. 

I think you have that exactly right, and one of the things that 

we are thinking about and doing as we head into the final 6-plus 

months of the administration is not only the agency’s transition for 

which this office plays a key role, as we discussed, through the 

Presidential Transition Improvements Act, but also OMB in management and government. We need to tee up the experience of the 

last 7 and 8 years so that our successors have an opportunity to 

learn from that and learn quickly from that as they try to figure 

out where the bathroom is and how to turn on and off the lights, 

and they get hit by a thousand urgent tasks and emergencies. How 

we are able to tee that up and move that quickly, expeditiously, coherently to them is a really important task. We want that next 

team to be able to set up a President’s Management Agenda in the 

next 3 months, not the first 2 years. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is all I have. 

Senator LANKFORD. Senator Carper. 

Senator CARPER. Thanks. I just want to note something. We 

talked earlier that there is roughly 7 months to go for this administration, and some people think that is not a very long time. I was 

reminded a long time ago when I was a naval flight officer, and my 
19 

squadron, a Navy P–3 squadron based in California, we used to deploy for 6 months at a time. We would go to Asia during the Vietnam War and come back home for 8 months, go back again to Asia 

for 6 months. Those 6 months seemed like a really long time. And 

I hope these 7 months that lie ahead for the administration and 

for you, if confirmed—and I think you will be—I just would encourage you and your team that you work with to just get as much 

done as you can. 

And in that spirit, what are some things that maybe this Congress and maybe looking ahead to the next Congress can do better 

in order to enable you to do your jobs better? What are some things 

that we might do? One of the things we focus on a lot here in this 

Committee is trying to make sure that the folks that the administration has nominated get a hearing, a prompt hearing, and we 

have the opportunity to put them to work quickly on almost every 

occasion. But what are some things that we can do that might help 

make you and your colleagues more effective? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Well, thank you, Senator. I deeply appreciate that 

opportunity. I think in the past 8 years, the approach to management and government has changed quite a bit, and while it has 

changed, it has changed for the positive. There are a number of old 

challenges that would be good to address in the remaining months. 

There are a number of new challenges that would be good to sustain and new opportunities that would be good to sustain. So I 

would point out just a few of them. 

One, in the office of the Federal CIO, an extremely important 

role, we have great leadership in Tony Scott, and the ability for 

him and his team through the funding that has come through the 

ITOR piece of the budget has provided the kind of resources I mentioned earlier for information technology experts on the management side of OMB to work closely with the budgeteers on the budget side of OMB, to work very closely with agency CIOs to make 

sure projects are on track, projects are spending at the right pace. 

So sustaining that piece of the budget is a very important thing. 

It is going OK in appropriations. I think it would be good and important to keep an eye on that. That also funds the U.S. Digital 

Service, which has done an extraordinary job. 

In the President’s Cybersecurity National Action Plan, we have 

asked Congress for a $3.1 billion IT transformation fund to attack 

the really horrible problem of legacy systems in the Federal Government, which are both a cyber threat and a huge hurdle for government modernizing and providing modern services to our citizens 

and our businesses. And I think the ability for us to make progress 

on that in the time that we have had a lot of interest in that, and 

I think we have made some real traction on that fund, but pushing 

that over the finish line so the next team starts with the ability 

of that mechanism to really tackle those legacy systems and tackle 

that problem. 

I would cite a couple quick other opportunities. In the area of 

Federal procurement, we have, I think, had a lot of success in 

standing up a discipline that has been used in the private sector 

for a couple decades now called ‘‘Category Management,’’ which is 

really building on the success that we have had in strategic 

sourcing, but really bringing a whole discipline to sectors and man-
20 

agement. We have been able to save $2 billion between 2010 and 

2015 by basically eliminating duplication in Federal acquisition. 

I think one of the things that the Congress can do is validate 

that approach and help secure that approach so, again, it gets 

taken up by the next group. I think there is enormous validation 

in the private sector for this. Now there is strong validation as we 

are standing it up in the final 2 years of this administration, and 

anything that you can do to support that effort, I would be happy 

to come brief you. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Thank you. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Those are some of the big stuff that I would cite 

for you. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Thank you. 

I have been pleased with how both the George W. Bush Administration and the Obama Administration have taken a more active 

role in Federal real property management, which I am sure you are 

aware of. And we have been active on it legislatively. In fact, we 

are trying to do more this year. What are a couple ways that we 

can ensure that the very good work in property reform continues 

on in the next administration? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for your partnership on that issue as well. 

I think the team has put a solid program in place to freeze the 

footprint and reduce the footprint, and we have had an opportunity 

to reduce the footprint by 25 million square feet up through 2016, 

which leads to a $300 million annual cost savings number. So another place, as in acquisition, where I think we have had some significant success. There is a ways to go. We have an opportunity if 

we go execute against that plan between 2016 and 2020 to reduce 

the Federal real property footprint by another 60 million square 

feet. So I think for the agencies, it is a matter of working together 

to keep that pressure on, to keep that focus going. 

I think when we first came out with the program, at the time 

we came out with the program, there was a lot of energy and enthusiasm around it. I think now what we need to do is really press 

to make sure the plans that are in place are implemented, and implemented well. So I appreciate your partnership on that and look 

forward to working with you on it. It is another example of, if confirmed, the way that this leadership role as the Deputy Director for 

Management pushes on a lot of folks in a lot of areas to keep the 

momentum going. And I think it speaks to the importance of having this role filled. And as the President has said, he plans to run 

through the tape, to leave everything on the field. I would commit 

to you as well, if confirmed, I am ready to run through the tape 

with the President and leave everything on the field, and whether 

it is real property or any of the other priorities we have discussed. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Good. One last quick one, if I could. 

After we established the Department of Homeland Security and it 

was new and we were trying to glom together 22 big agencies and 

a quarter of a million employees that were spread all over the place 

in the greater Washington metropolitan area—and spread around 

the world actually—one of the things that became clear is that they 

needed excellent management, they needed great leadership, and 

they needed a good management team. And we worked with this 
21 

administration and the last administration to try to make sure we 

had that. They needed a reasonable amount of funding. They have 

asked for a number of changes in law with respect to authorization 

of various components of the big agency. 

One of the issues that came to my attention several years ago 

was the interest in trying to get rid of all these leases that we have 

throughout the greater metropolitan area, down into Virginia, and 

in Maryland and D.C. and so forth, where we spend a lot of money 

leasing office space for some of these quarter of a million employees. They are spread all across hell’s half acre. It is hard to coordinate everybody. There is not much of a sense of team. And so I was 

an earlier doubter that St. Elizabeths made sense to try to consolidate everything in one campus. I am not a doubter anymore. I 

think there is real savings that could be realized, and I think so 

does the administration. 

Would you just comment on that briefly before we wrap up here? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator, and thank you again for your 

support on that issue. I had in my time on the budget side of OMB 

an opportunity to be the steward of General Government Programs, 

as we discussed, which included DHS, and DHS headquarters was 

a part of that. 

The work that the team did to develop the enhanced plan, as we called it last year that shaved $1 billion off the cost that provided 

for the employees of DHS to move in many years earlier than 

planned I think was an extraordinary plan. I think it was validated 

by the budget in 2016. I think we need to stay on top of it like we 

stayed on top of it in 2016 to deliver this year on this budget and 

keep that momentum alive so that the next Secretary of DHS, 

when he walks into his or her office. 

Senator CARPER. Sometimes we let women do these jobs, like 

Janet Napolitano. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Absolutely, and I think Secretary Napolitano was 

extraordinary in her role there. But for her who walks into that office, they walk into that office in St. Elizabeths rather than in 

Northwest Washington, D.C. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Thanks so much. 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. 

Let me ask one quick wrap-up question and see if there is anything we need to add. On the issue about OMB setting and managing the policies of other agencies—that is an interesting relationship. You and I had a brief conversation in my office about it as 

well, the management part of OMB and working with agencies. Are 

there particular areas of policy you believe should be left to OMB 

when we start talking about setting policies for agencies? 

Mr. MAYOCK. Thank you, Senator. I think as far as policy setting, I am happy to continue the conversation beyond this hearing 

room, of course, and if confirmed, happy to dig deeper on that and 

work further on that. 

As for the way things work today, I think that in my experience 

at OMB, both on the budget side and my role as a senior adviser 

on the management side, we have a pretty functional and working 

system where an agency as it seeks to guide its own equities 
22 

through its process has an opportunity to do that, and where OMB 

has cross-cutting equities and is working through its management 

role for the good of the broader government, that we then produce 

and work on things like Executive Orders (EO) and Presidential 

memos and OMB management memos. 

So that tends to be the balance, I think as we work through that, 

and I think we tend to have a good relationship with agencies as 

we discuss whether something should be OMB guidance or something should be agency guidance. But I look forward to your views 

and am happy to work with you on that. 

Senator LANKFORD. That is great. 

Other questions, Senator Carper? 

Senator CARPER. I am done. Thanks. 

Senator LANKFORD. Other comments you need to make? 

Senator CARPER. Let me just say, I left it all on the field. 

Senator LANKFORD. If you want to make public comments about 

your brothers, this is the opportunity. [Laughter.] 

Because they will not be given the microphone after you. 

Mr. MAYOCK. I thought I might be given the opportunity to call 

a friend or a brother, so I just thank them again for their presence. 

They have flown in from St. Paul, Milwaukee, and New York, and 

at a moment’s notice, so it is wonderful to have their support, in 

addition to my other siblings, including my one sister, who I am 

sure are paying attention from home. So I deeply support the presence of all the family here. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. 

Mr. MAYOCK. And I really appreciate the opportunity today and 

the work that we have been able to do in the lead-up to this hearing. And if confirmed, as noted, I look forward to working closely 

in the months ahead. A lot of work to do in the next 6-plus months, 

and I am dedicated to this job and this role and working together. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. For you and for Cindy and for 

your family, thanks for being here, and for your dedication already 

in serving the Nation. 

Let me make this brief closing statement, and we will close. Mr. 

Mayock has filed responses to biographical and financial questionnaires, answered prehearing questions submitted by the Committee, and has had financial statements reviewed by the Office of 

Government Ethics. Without objection, this information will be 

made part of the hearing record with the exception of the financial 

data, which is on file and available for public inspection in the 

Committee offices. 

Senator LANKFORD. The hearing record will remain open until 12 

p.m. tomorrow, June 29, 2016, for the submission of statements 

and questions for the record. 

Thank you again for being here. This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 5:15 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 
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