S. Hrg. 114–586 

NOMINATIONS OF MICHAEL J. MISSAL AND 

HON. CAROLYN N. LERNER 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

NOMINATIONS OF MICHAEL J. MISSAL TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, AND 

HON. CAROLYN N. LERNER TO BE SPECIAL COUNSEL, U.S. OFFICE OF 

SPECIAL COUNSEL 

January 12, 2016 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
NOMINATIONS OF MICHAEL J. MISSAL AND HON. CAROLYN N. LERNER 
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

98–988 PDF 2017

S. Hrg. 114–586 

NOMINATIONS OF MICHAEL J. MISSAL AND 

HON. CAROLYN N. LERNER 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

NOMINATIONS OF MICHAEL J. MISSAL TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, AND 

HON. CAROLYN N. LERNER TO BE SPECIAL COUNSEL, U.S. OFFICE OF 

SPECIAL COUNSEL 

JANUARY 12, 2016 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire 

JONI ERNST, Iowa 

BEN SASSE, Nebraska 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

KEITH B. ASHDOWN, Staff Director 

CHRISTOPHER R. HIXON, Chief Counsel 

GABRIELLE D’ADAMO SINGER, Deputy Chief Counsel for Governmental Affairs 

DAVID N. BREWER, Chief Investigative Counsel 

GABRIELLE A. BATKIN, Minority Staff Director 

JOHN P. KILVINGTON, Minority Deputy Staff Director 

KATHERINE C. SYBENGA, Minority Senior Counsel 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

BENJAMIN C. GRAZDA, Hearing Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 3 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 7 

Senator Portman .............................................................................................. 16 

Senator Baldwin ............................................................................................... 17 

Senator Ayotte .................................................................................................. 19 

Senator Ernst .................................................................................................... 21 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 23 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 26 

Prepared statement: 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 31 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 33 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, JANUARY 12, 2016 

Hon. Jon Tester, a United States Senator from the State of Montana ............... 1 

Hon. Benjamin L. Cardin, a United States Senator from the State of Maryland ........................................................................................................................ 3 

Michael J. Missal to be Inspector General, U.S. Department of Veterans 

Affairs 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 9 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 35 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 37 

Letter from the Office of Government Ethics ................................................. 56 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 61 

Responses to post-hearing questions .............................................................. 78 

Hon. Carolyn N. Lerner to be Special Counsel, U.S. Office of Special Counsel 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 10 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 80 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 84 

Letter from the Office of Government Ethics ................................................. 282 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 285 

Responses to post-hearing questions .............................................................. 300 

Letters of support ............................................................................................. 307 

APPENDIX 

Letters to Ms. Halliday ........................................................................................... 316 

White Paper ............................................................................................................. 333 

GAO Report .............................................................................................................. 346 

(1) 

NOMINATIONS OF MICHAEL J. MISSAL AND 

HON. CAROLYN N. LERNER 

TUESDAY, JANUARY 12, 2016 

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room SD– 

342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Johnson, Chairman 

of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Johnson, Portman, Lankford, Ayotte, Ernst, 

Sasse, Carper, McCaskill, Tester, Baldwin, Heitkamp, and Peters. 

Chairman JOHNSON. This hearing will come to order. I want to 

welcome everybody. Good morning. 

Today the Committee is considering two nominations: Mr. Michael Missal to be the Inspector General (IG) for the Department 

of Veterans Affairs (VA), and Ms. Carolyn Lerner, renominated for 

a second term as United States Special Counsel of the Office of 

Special Counsel (OSC). I understand that Senator Tester has a 

tight schedule this morning, so I thought we would get going right 

away because I know Senator Tester would like to introduce Mr. 

Missal. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JON TESTER, A 

UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MONTANA 

Senator TESTER. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Interestingly 

enough, I have a meeting with the Secretary of the VA at 10 

o’clock, so I appreciate your allowing me to go first. 

I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member Carper for holding this hearing today. Today we are going to consider 

the names of two individuals who can bring forth stronger oversight and accountability to the Federal Government while also ensuring that we are better supporting and empowering Federal 

whistleblowers. 

I want to take this opportunity to introduce Michael J. Missal, 

who has been nominated to serve as the Inspector General of the 

Department of Veterans Affairs. This nomination should not be in 

doubt. Mike has extensive investigative and management experience. He has gained this through a number of high-profile investigations, audits, and inspections over the years. And, Michael, I 

want to thank you for being here, and thank you for your willingness to serve. And I also want to thank the members of your family 

for being here today. 

At no fault of your own, this nomination has been a very long 

time in coming, and I certainly share the frustration of the Chair-
2 

man, Ranking Member, and Members of this Committee who have 

been waiting impatiently for 2 long years. Particularly given the 

turbulence of the last couple of years, it is unacceptable that the 

VA has been without a permanent Inspector General to provide the 

kind of leadership and independent oversight necessary to hold the 

VA accountable and to guide the Office of Inspector General (OIG) 

through its increasing workload. Now at long last the ball is in this 

Committee’s court. 

I personally met with Mike late last year to discuss his credentials and his experience and to ensure that he was fully aware of 

the task, a very difficult task, that is at hand. I believe that he is 

superbly qualified for this nomination. His skill set, his experience, 

and his temperament are right for the job, and he is certainly 

ready to go to work. 

During our discussion it was clear that Mike and I shared the 

belief that the public’s confidence and trust in the VA have been 

greatly undermined, and it will take a long time, I might add, before that trust and confidence will be restored. If confirmed, Mike 

will play a critical role in this process. 

It is clear that the VA needs to operate in a more transparent 

manner, and it needs to be held accountable when it is not doing 

right by the veterans of this country. The omnibus appropriation 

bill that we passed late last year makes historic investments in the 

VA health care. I fought for every dollar that is in that bill. But 

while I am pleased with these significant new investments in our 

veterans, we have the responsibility to make sure that the money 

is properly spent. If confirmed, we will expect Mike to do the same. 

We cannot afford to make these investments without knowing they 

are producing real results for the veterans who have earned it. We 

also cannot afford to allow systematic failures to continue, failures 

that deny or delay care for veterans or in any way compromise 

their well-being. 

For instance, it was just reported in Montana that the private information of hundreds of veterans may have been compromised by 

the VA. We need increased accountability, and we need it today. 

Later today, the Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee, of which I 

am also a member, will vote to move Mr. Missal’s nomination forward. I am confident that his support will be overwhelming and 

probably unanimous. But now is the time for this Committee to act. 

I am hoping we can move forward on this nomination in the coming days to ensure that the VA’s Office of Inspector General can finally have the permanent leadership and oversight that we have 

been demanding for the past 2 years. It is a critical step if we are 

to rebuild the trust of the public and particularly of our veterans 

in the agency that was created to ensure that we properly honor 

and care for those who have sacrificed so greatly for this country. 

Mike, I just once again want to thank you for your willingness 

to serve. It is truly appreciated. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Carper, thank you again for holding this hearing today. This 

is an important step forward for the VA. It is an important step 

forward for our veterans. Like I said earlier, I hope we can move 

on Mike Missal’s nomination as IG as soon as possible. 

Thank you. 
3 

1The prepared statement of Chairman Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 31. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Tester. Again, I think 

we all share your frustration that we have not had a nomination 

for a permanent Inspector General at the VA, and we are very 

pleased that Mr. Missal is willing to serve. 

I know when I met with you in my office, I was very grateful 

that you are willing to serve. This is a troubled Inspector General’s 

office. It just is. And we will talk about that later. 

I know you both have family members. We are waiting for Senator Cardin to introduce Ms. Lerner. Maybe you would like to just 

quickly introduce your family members, whom we also welcome. 

Mr. Missal. 

Mr. MISSAL. Sure. I have my wife, Deborah, here and son, Jordan, who is a senior at Washington and Lee University. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Welcome. 

Senator CARPER. Is Jordan the one wearing the green tie? 

Mr. MISSAL. Green tie. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you. 

Ms. LERNER. My husband, Dwight Bostwick, is here with me. 

Our two children, Ben and Anna, would be here if they could be, 

but they are back at college. But they sat through the first hearing, 

so I cannot really hold it against them. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHNSON 

Chairman JOHNSON. We certainly welcome you and your family 

members, and we truly appreciate the fact you are willing to serve 

your Nation in these capacities. These are not easy jobs. 

I do have an opening statement which I would ask consent to 

have entered in the record.1

But let me just talk about why this is in many respects so personal to me. Ms. Lerner, when I had you in my office yesterday, 

I told you that I came here because we have some enormous problems. And I have to admit, when I first contemplated running for 

the U.S. Senate, I was not thinking about really delving into the 

Office of Inspector General and taking a look at all the details 

there. Well, actually we have Senator Cardin here. Senator Cardin, 

are you ready to introduce Ms. Lerner right off the bat? 

Senator CARDIN. I apologize. 

Chairman JOHNSON. No. That is fine. To be respectful of your 

time, if you are ready to go, why don’t you make your introduction 

of Ms. Lerner? Then I will continue with my opening statement. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE BENJAMIN L. 

CARDIN, A UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE 

OF MARYLAND 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the 

courtesy of allowing me to introduce Ms. Lerner, and, Ranking 

Member Carper and Members of the Committee, it really is a 

pleasure to be here today to introduce to the Committee Carolyn 

Lerner, who happens to be a Marylander, who has been nominated 

to another term as Special Counsel of the United States Office of 

Special Counsel, and I am pleased to support her nomination. 
4 

Ms. Lerner received her undergraduate degree from the University of Michigan and her law degree from New York University 

(NYU) School of Law, and after clerking, she made the extremely 

wise decision to move to the State of Maryland. She has been a 

Maryland resident for 25 years and now lives in Montgomery 

County, Maryland. 

OSC, I think you all know, is an extremely important agency. 

The work that is done by OSC is critically important to our Federal 

workforce and to our laws. They are basically responsible for the 

implementation of the Civil Service Reform Act, the Whistleblower 

Protection Act (WPA), the Hatch Act, and the Uniformed Services 

Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA). They safeguard the merit system. 

Mr. Chairman, I am very proud of our Federal workforce. I think 

we have the best Federal workforce in the world, dedicated public 

servants. But it depends upon individuals who are willing to step 

forward to make sure that system continues. 

It is not easy to be a whistleblower. It takes courage. And this 

position that Ms. Lerner has been renominated for guarantees that 

these laws work properly. And I must tell you it does take some 

courage for people to participate in the system. Ms. Lerner has 

brought needed stability, continuity, and professionalism to the office. Ms. Lerner has reduced OSC’s costs to resolve a case by 45 

percent, leading to record levels of productivity. In 2015, OSC resolved over 6,000 cases, which is an over-50-percent increase from 

the year that Ms. Lerner took office. She overhauled the alternative dispute resolution program, as mediation can often save 

time and money in producing better outcomes, and has earned 

praise from the Government Accountability Project (GAP) for setting new global gold standards for alternate dispute resolution 

(ADR). 

When it comes to results, the number of favorable actions on behalf of whistleblowers and the merit system, she has consistently 

set records. In 2015, her office secured 268 favorable actions from 

whistleblowers and other employees, up from 201 favorable actions 

in 2014. The results speak for themselves. She has saved us 

money, and she has resolved cases, and has resolved them in a favorable manner. 

I am very proud to support her nomination. Let me just cite a 

couple examples because this is what this is about. It is about the 

credibility of our system. 

One involved the Air Force Port Mortuary in Dover, Delaware. 

They discovered misconduct regarding the improper handling of 

human remains of fallen servicemembers, which ultimately led to 

corrective action by the Air Force. That is the type of matters that 

we are talking about which her professionalism has helped to resolve. 

Her work with whistleblowers at the Department of Homeland 

Security (DHS) revealed improper management of annual overtime 

payments, resulting in millions in cost savings to taxpayers, saving 

taxpayer dollars. 

And OSC’s work with Veterans Affairs whistleblowers has helped 

to improve the quality of health care of our veterans. 
5 

1The letters of recommendation appear in the Appendix on page 307. 

She has received numerous endorsements, and many of them I 

will just put into the record, but let me just end with Congressman 

Jeff Miller. The Chairman of the House Committee on Veterans’ 

Affairs wrote to the Committee to express his ‘‘enthusiastic support 

for the confirmation of Ms. Carolyn Lerner for reappointment to 

lead the Office of Special Counsel. Ms. Lerner has been an outstanding Special Counsel who marshaled her office resources admirably to respond to the unexpected wave of VA complaints. She has 

worked tirelessly to promote accountability and restore confidence 

in the VA. Therefore, I offer my wholehearted support for her confirmation for another term as Special Counsel.’’ 

I agree with Congressman Miller, and I urge the Committee to 

consider her nomination and to report it favorably to the floor in 

a timely manner so that she can continue the great work she is 

doing on behalf of the American people. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Cardin. 

It is interesting that in the introductions by both Senator Tester 

and Senator Cardin—I made a couple notes. Senator Tester talked 

about the importance of the Inspector General and, quite honestly, 

of the Special Counsel to be transparent and accountable, which is 

really what we need all of government to be—transparent and accountable. And I completely agree with you, Senator Cardin, coming from the private sector, where I have seen excellence because 

of our free market competitive system, very impressed with the 

quality of the Federal workforce. I realize, people with the skill 

level that are engaged in these agencies could make more in the 

private sector, but they do, as patriots, as committed Americans, 

serve our government, have less pay, and they do a really good job. 

And you are also right that it is very difficult to step forward, 

and it is difficult to step forward because this is the shock that I 

have experienced, coming from the private sector, is the level and 

pervasiveness of retaliation against those individuals, those whistleblowers, which is why this hearing and these nominations and 

these positions that we will be voting on your confirmation for are 

so incredibly important. 

I asked for my opening statement to be entered into the record, 

and, by the way, those letters of recommendation1 will be also. 

I just want to take a couple minutes to talk about the story of 

why this is so important. Again, I said I did not come here to delve 

into Inspectors General. I mean, I did not know much about it until 

I landed on this Committee. It really began with the events in 

Cartagena and a hearing we had with the Director of the Secret 

Service really denying the reality of the problems occurring within 

that agency. And as we continued to delve, my staff continued to 

delve into the problems involved in the report from the Office of Inspector General on the events in Cartagena, we realized that the 

report had been doctored. There was not integrity, there was not 

independence, there was not accountability from the Office of Inspector General. 

Now, that was the Office of Inspector General within the Department of Homeland Security, and that was an Acting Inspector General that I think was corrupted by that individual’s desire to be ap-
6 

pointed the permanent Inspector General. It is a really bad idea. 

So that was my first foray into understanding how an Office of Inspector General, whose sole purpose is to be the watchdog of these 

agencies, to be independent and transparent and accountable, how 

that office can be corrupted. 

Fast forward to January 8, 2015. Aaron Glantz of the Center for 

Investigative Reporting breaks a story about Candy Land and 

Candy Man at the Tomah VA. The story publicized the existence 

of a then-secret—I want that word to seep in—a ‘‘secret’’ report 

from the VA Office of Inspector General that examined and whitewashed Dr. Houlihan’s questionable prescription practices. That 

was on January 8, 2015, the first time I heard that there were 

problems at the Tomah VA. 

On January 12, Candace Delis of Wisconsin took her father, 

Thomas Baer, a veteran of this country, to the Tomah VA Urgent 

Care Center with stroke symptoms. Mr. Baer sat in the waiting 

room—this is somewhat disputed—2 to 3 hours, probably suffered 

a couple strokes, died a couple days later. They finally transported 

him to Gunderson Lutheran to try to get adequate care, but he 

could not be saved. 

Here is the point I want to make. A few days later, when I was 

talking to Candace Delis, she told me, ‘‘Senator, had I only 

known’’—‘‘had I only known the problems at the Tomah VA Health 

Care Center, I never would have taken my father to that center.’’ 

She came from Marshfield, Wisconsin, a Medical Center of Excellence. I have to believe her father, Thomas Baer, would be alive 

today had she only known. 

Now, upon hearing this, a new Chairman of this Committee, I 

assigned my staff the job of investigating the Tomah health care 

facility. In 3 months, I think we uncovered more problems in that 

facility than the VA Office of Inspector General uncovered in a 3- 

year investigation. They first had an allegation, a complaint, in 

March 2011, a 3-year investigation, finally issued a report in 

March 2014, which they did not make public. By the way, that was 

one of 140 other reports on investigations and inspections that they 

did not make public. 

I have asked other Inspectors General about how many reports 

they have kept private, away from the public, and they look at me 

like I am from another universe. It is just basically unheard of unless there are issues of national security. 

So there is a real problem, Mr. Missal, in the Office of Inspector 

General within the VA system, and that is why I said, God bless 

you for taking on this task. You have a very large task at hand. 

We will talk a little bit later about this White Paper. Again, it 

took 3 years for the Office of Inspector General to investigate and 

then issue a non-public report on the problems within Tomah. It 

only took them a couple months to write and make public a report 

that retaliated—the Office of Inspector General wrote a report that 

retaliated against the whistleblowers of the problems at the Tomah 

VA system. That is why these positions are so incredibly important. 

That is why we need people of integrity that will be independent, 

that will be transparent, so that the agencies within this Federal 

Government are held accountable. 
7 

So, again, I am looking forward to the hearing. I think that certainly underscores why this is so important, this hearing, and I 

look forward to it. With that, I will turn it over to my Ranking 

Member, Senator Carper. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for calling this 

hearing today and bringing us together. It is good to see all my colleagues again. And it is very nice to see both of you and to have 

a chance to see your spouses and at least a child or two. I want 

to thank your spouses for their willingness to share you, each of 

you, with the people of our country and to allow you to do this service. We know from our own experience that these are tough and demanding jobs, and so we are especially grateful for the family 

members, the sacrifices that you make to allow them to serve. 

I want to begin by welcoming back Carolyn Lerner. It is nice to 

see you. But she is no stranger to this Committee, and Carolyn is 

not a stranger either to the position to which she has been nominated. And as we heard, the Office of Special Counsel has a number of very important functions. Around here, it is probably best 

known as the primary office for enforcing whistleblower protections. 

We all know that whistleblowers play an important role, I think 

an increasingly important role, in rooting out waste, fraud, and 

abuse in government. They are often the first to raise concerns and 

highlight instances where we can better serve the American people. 

The Special Counsel’s Office also plays an important role in ensuring that whistleblowers are heard and that they are protected after 

they speak up. 

I have seen firsthand—and it has been alluded to—the good work 

that the Office of Special Counsel has done at the Dover Air Force 

Base, especially with the Port Mortuary there where the remains 

of our fallen heroes are brought from all over the world. Several 

years ago, we learned that, thanks to some whistleblowers there, 

that some of the behaviors, some of the actions taken within that 

mortuary were inappropriate—maybe not illegal but inappropriate 

and just wrong-headed and wrong. And the folks who raised these 

concerns were retaliated against. They were retaliated against to 

the extent of losing their jobs. 

I remember one of them, whose name was ‘‘Mr. Z,’’ showing up 

at our doorstep in our Dover office, my Dover Senate office, and 

laying out what was going on. And we ended up talking with him 

and other whistleblowers. The Office of Special Counsel got involved, and lo and behold, a year later, when I visited the Port 

Mortuary—I try to go by there every year or two, and I visited to 

see how things were going, and the people who greeted me at the 

entrance there were the whistleblowers. And the people who did 

not greet me during that tour were the colonel who had run the 

place. He was gone. And the other person who did not welcome me 

for that tour was a senior civilian employee there who was gone. 

And I just want to thank you, not just on behalf of those people 

who had the courage to raise their heads and raise their hands and 

say something is wrong here, but on behalf of all the people and 
8 

1The prepared statement of Senator Carper appears in the Appendix on page 33. 

all the families who will rest easier because of the work that you 

have done. 

It is also my understanding—and Senator Cardin has alluded to 

this—that under your leadership, Carolyn, these positive outcomes 

that I have just referred to have become more frequent and that 

your agency has markedly improved as a resource for whistleblowers. We look forward to hearing from you about what you and 

your team have accomplished, as well as to learn of your plans for 

continued improvement going forward. 

I also want to welcome this morning Michael Missal and thank 

him for his willingness to be considered for this very important position of Inspector General at the VA. 

As we all know and have heard already, IGs play an extremely 

important role in our government. Their work helps us save money, 

reveal and prosecute wrongdoing, promote the integrity and efficiency of government, and, hopefully, increase the confidence of the 

American people in their government. 

Unfortunately, we have seen far too many IG positions, including 

the one Mr. Missal has been nominated to fill, sit vacant for far 

too long. In fact, the VA has been without a permanent Senate-confirmed Inspector General, as we heard, for more than 2 years. 

In the past couple of years, in fact, in the last Congress and in 

this Congress, Dr. Coburn and I and now Senator Johnson and I 

have sent letters to the President from every member of this Committee in two Congresses now saying to the President we know you 

are busy, and we know there is a lot going on in the White House, 

but these IG vacancies, these positions have been vacant for too 

long, you need to do something about it. 

To his credit, and his staff over there, they have done something 

about it, and your presence here today is further evidence of that. 

We keep having IGs step down, so there are new vacancies to fill. 

But we are getting, I think, much better support out of the White 

House, and our job is now to do our job. 

I will close with that. I just ask that the rest of my statement 

be entered for the record,1 if I could, and, again, welcome one and 

all. We look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Without objection, it will be. 

It is the tradition of this Committee to swear in witnesses, so if 

you will both rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you will give before this Committee will be the truth, the 

whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? 

Mr. MISSAL. I do. 

Ms. LERNER. I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Our first nominee is Mr. Michael Missal. 

Mr. Missal is the nominee to be Inspector General at the Department of Veterans Affairs. He is currently a partner at the law firm 

K&L Gates, where he leads the firm’s policy and regulatory practice groups. Mr. Missal holds a B.A. from Washington and Lee University and a J.D. from the Catholic University of America. Mr. 

Missal. 
9 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Missal appears in the Appendix on page 35. 

TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL J. MISSAL,1 NOMINEE TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS 

Mr. MISSAL. Thank you. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member 

Carper, distinguished Members of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs (HSGAC), and veterans who have 

served our great Nation. It is an honor and privilege to testify before you today as the nominee to be the Inspector General of the 

Department of Veterans Affairs. 

This would have been an incredibly proud day for my parents, 

Harold and Rose Missal, but unfortunately both passed away a 

number of years ago. Aside from family, the most important things 

in my father’s life were his military service and his public service. 

My father was a World War II veteran who fought in Europe with 

the Army’s 286th Engineer Combat Battalion. He was a proud veteran and truly one of the ‘‘Greatest Generation.’’ 

My father was also a State judge in Connecticut for more than 

30 years. He instilled in me the importance of public service and 

the concept of ‘‘giving back.’’ He believed that there was no higher 

calling than being in public service and working hard to make a 

difference in people’s lives. I started my legal career in public service and have always desired to return to it. I cannot imagine a 

more meaningful or important role than the Inspector General of 

the Department of Veterans Affairs. 

The Mission Statement of VA is to fulfill President Lincoln’s 

promise: ‘‘To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for 

his widow, and his orphan’’ by serving and honoring the men and 

women who are America’s veterans. VA provides essential services 

and benefits to our veterans, but it has more work to do to live up 

fully to President Lincoln’s promise. 

This is a particularly critical time for VA as it attempts to rebuild the trust and confidence it has lost from our veterans, Congress, Veterans Service Organizations (VSOs), and the American 

public. The VA Inspector General plays a crucial and independent 

role in assisting VA meet its mission and identifying the instances 

where it falls short. The need to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse 

and to promote efficiency and integrity at VA may never have been 

greater. Recent public reports from the Office of Inspector General 

and elsewhere underscore the need for significant and prompt improvements in the way VA is servicing our veterans. If confirmed, 

I look forward to playing a role in strengthening the programs, 

policies, and culture of VA. 

I have had the opportunity recently to meet with many of you 

and to hear your thoughts and views about VA and the workings 

of the Office of Inspector General. The discussions have been extremely constructive and valuable. I recognize your bipartisan approach to these issues and the great frustration in VA not fully 

meeting its mission. 

Many of you discussed the important role that whistleblowers 

play in identifying potential issues. I also believe that whistleblowers are immensely important to the work of the VA Office of 

Inspector General. If confirmed, one of my goals will be to promote 

an improved environment in which whistleblowers have confidence 
10 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Lerner appears in the Appendix on page 80. 

that their concerns will be fairly and effectively considered by the 

Office of Inspector General and that their identities will be protected from disclosure. I will also take the necessary steps to ensure that whistleblowers are fully aware of their right to be free 

from reprisal for making protected disclosures and how to seek redress from appropriate authorities if reprisal occurs. 

I believe that I have the experience, skills, judgment, and temperament to be a highly effective Inspector General. My professional career has provided me with valuable and extensive experience in investigations, audits, and inspections, three of the primary 

functions of an Inspector General. I have successfully conducted a 

number of complex and high-profile investigations. With respect to 

audits, I have routinely dealt with accounting principles and auditing standards. Finally, I have been involved in the inspections of 

various entities. 

My service on the Management Committee of K&L Gates and my 

role as the co-practice area leader of the policy and regulatory practices have provided me with significant management experience. As 

a co-practice area leader, I am responsible for the performance of 

more than 200 policy and regulatory lawyers and professionals. 

The Management Committee is also responsible for the overall 

business and operations of the firm, including developing a budget 

for a firm with over $1 billion in revenues. 

If confirmed, I pledge to work tirelessly and independently on behalf of our veterans and the American public. I also pledge to work 

collaboratively with this Committee and other Members of Congress and their staff. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today, and I look forward to your questions. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Mr. Missal. 

Our second nominee is Ms. Carolyn Lerner, who has been renominated to serve a second 5-year term as United States Special 

Counsel of the Office of Special Counsel. She holds a Bachelor’s degree from the University of Michigan and a law degree from New 

York University Law School. Ms. Lerner. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE CAROLYN N. LERNER,1

NOMINEE TO BE SPECIAL COUNSEL, U.S. OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL 

Ms. LERNER. Thank you. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member 

Carper, Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity 

to testify today. I also want to thank Senator Cardin for his kind 

words. 

I want to thank my family for their support and encouragement 

over the last 41⁄2 years since I have taken on the new challenge of 

heading up the Office of Special Counsel. I am honored that the 

President renominated me to serve a second term. 

I want to acknowledge the OSC leaders that are here today. I am 

very proud to serve with these exemplary public servants. 

Senator CARPER. Could we ask them to raise their hands? 

[Hands raised.] 

All right. Thank you all. 
11 

Ms. LERNER. I can say, without hesitation, that the Office of Special Counsel is engaged in the most productive period in its history, 

and this productivity is due to the hard work of all of OSC’s employees—the folks who are here today, the people in the field offices, in Washington, D.C., Oakland, Dallas, and Detroit. I am very 

proud to serve with all of them. 

Our strong results in whistleblower retaliation, whistleblower 

disclosure, Hatch Act, and USERRA cases demonstrate this office’s 

ability to promote better and more efficient government. For example, our work with whistleblowers has prompted improvements in 

the quality of care for veterans at VA centers across the country. 

We have protected Customs and Border Protection (CBP) whistleblowers who reported widespread waste and improper overtime 

payments at the Department of Homeland Security. And by working with this Committee in oversight hearings, Congress passed bipartisan legislation that will save $100 million a year. That is 

about four times OSC’s annual budget. 

And we vigorously enforced the Hatch Act and worked with this 

Committee, particularly then-Senator Akaka and Senator Mike 

Lee, to modernize the act by limiting the Federal Government’s unnecessary interference with State and local elections. 

When I was first nominated as Special Counsel, I often remarked 

that OSC was the best kept secret in the Federal Government. I 

wanted this to change so that more employees and taxpayers could 

benefit from the work of this small but effective agency. And 

change it has. 

In 2015, for the first time in the agency’s history, we received 

and resolved over 6,000 new matters, a 50-percent increase from 

2011, when I first took office. This dramatic increase in filings indicates that whistleblowers believe they can make a difference by 

coming to OSC. Studies have shown that the No. 1 reason that employees do not report waste, fraud, or abuse is not because they 

fear retaliation. It is because they do not believe any good will 

come from their taking the risk. If the number of cases filed is any 

indication of employees’ willingness to raise concerns—and I think 

it is—then we are moving in the right direction. 

Given that the demand for OSC’s services has far exceeded our 

small agency’s resources, we have needed to find new and more efficient ways to approach increasing caseloads, and we have. OSC’s 

cost to resolve a case is down by 45 percent, leading to record levels 

of productivity, and I have focused on being a careful steward of 

the taxpayer dollars. 

I have also found better ways to manage cases. For example, I 

reinvigorated our alternative dispute resolution program because 

we know that mediation saves time and money for both agencies 

and employees alike, and it often results in better outcomes. And 

we are currently experimenting with an innovative approach to 

managing whistleblower cases. The new approach consolidates four 

OSC positions into one. This is proving to be both efficient and effective. By taking these smart approaches to our growing caseload, 

we are generating efficiencies without compromising the quality of 

OSC’s work. Indeed, when evaluating the most important statistic—the number of favorable outcomes for whistleblowers and 

the merit system—we are consistently setting records. For exam-
12 

ple, in 2015, we secured 278 favorable actions for whistleblowers 

and other employees. Prior to my tenure, the number of favorable 

actions had dropped to 29 and was consistently below 100 per year. 

But statistics cannot capture OSC’s true impact. Our work with 

whistleblowers often saves lives and sparks reforms that prevent 

wasteful, inefficient, or unsafe practices. 

In summary, I am very grateful for the opportunity to have 

served as Special Counsel. But there is still much to be accomplished. If confirmed for a second term, I hope to build on current 

successes. I will continue to protect VA and all other Federal employees from retaliation, and we will strive to find new ways to use 

our limited resources to improve government. 

I thank this Committee for 41⁄2 years of a productive relationship. I look forward to answering your questions. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Ms. Lerner. I want to thank all 

my colleagues that have come here. It just underscores really how 

important we all feel these positions are and what these positions 

have to do and what they offer to government. Because we have so 

many members, we are going to limit questions to 5 minutes. 

Let me start out. I have some questions I am going to ask both 

of you, and I would like both of you to answer in series. 

The first one: Is there anything you are aware of in your background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of 

the office to which you have been nominated? Mr. Missal 

Mr. MISSAL. I do not. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Ms. Lerner. 

Ms. LERNER. I do not. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Do you know of anything personal or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably 

discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been 

nominated? Mr. Missal. 

Mr. MISSAL. I do not. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Ms. Lerner. 

Ms. LERNER. No, I do not. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Do you agree without reservation to comply 

with any request or summons to appear and testify before any duly 

constituted Committee of Congress if you are confirmed? Mr. Missal. 

Mr. MISSAL. I do, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. LERNER. Yes, I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. Thank you. 

Let me go back to the White Paper. Again, not to beat a dead 

horse, but I think it is just such a powerful example of why these 

positions are important and really to get your commitment, both of 

your commitments, to make sure that we rectify the problems within particularly the Office of Inspector General. 

There was a whistleblower, Dr. Chris Kirkpatrick. He came forward. He was trying to get the attention of the management within 

the VA about the overprescription of opiate drugs. Because he came 

forward, he was terminated. The day of his termination he committed suicide. 

If that is not tragic enough, on June 4, 2015, after spending 3 

years investigating and then not publishing a report on the problems of the VA health care system, the Office of Inspector General 
13 

1The White Paper referenced by Senator Johnson can be found in the Appendix on page 333. 

issued and made public a White Paper that included this statement: ‘‘I strongly recommend a thorough review of the in-depth 

sheriff’s report, a publicly available document that is included in 

the documents produced, records produced, pages 5795 to 5851, 

with specific attention to the pages detailing the voluminous 

amounts and types of marijuana and what appears to be other illegal substances found in Dr. Kirkpatrick’s residence as well as other 

items including a scale and used devices containing marijuana residue. The evidence indicates that Dr. Kirkpatrick was likely not 

only to have been using but also distributing the marijuana or 

other illegal substances.’’1

I have no idea what any of this had to do with the issue at hand 

in terms of the overprescription of opiates that resulted in veterans’ 

deaths and the lack of care that resulted in the death by lack of 

care to Thomas Baer. This is the Office of Inspector General writing a report that is retaliating against a dead whistleblower. 

Now, I asked Ms. Linda Halliday, when she testified before us, 

I wanted to know who was involved in this within the office. There 

is a problem within the office. I have not gotten that answer, and 

that is my first question to you, Mr. Missal. Are you disturbed by 

this? 

Mr. MISSAL. I am disturbed by the language in the White Paper, 

yes. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Are you disturbed that the White Paper was 

ever issued? 

Mr. MISSAL. I just do not know enough about the facts and circumstances as to why it would, but that is certainly one of my first 

priorities would be to look at that. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Will you cooperate with this Committee and 

me to find out who was involved in the writing of this White Paper 

in the office? 

Mr. MISSAL. Mr. Chairman, I will provide you the information 

you need to get the answers to your questions. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Also, this Committee was forced, because of 

the lack of cooperation by the Acting Inspector General, to issue a 

subpoena on April 29. That subpoena has yet to be complied with. 

Now, we are getting many excuses for not complying with it, privacy issues. We do not want to reveal any private information. Obviously, the Office of Inspector General had no problem revealing 

private information publicly. We certainly have no interest in that. 

Will you commit yourself to making sure that our subpoena is complied with so we can get to the bottom of not only the problems 

within the Tomah VA system but within other health care systems 

within the VA, but also to get to the bottom of the problems within 

the Office of Inspector General? Will you comply with that subpoena? 

Mr. MISSAL. Mr. Chairman, I have not seen the subpoena, but 

I certainly will look at it. My goal is to have a cooperative and collaborative relationship with this Committee. I hope in the future 

we do not need any more subpoenas. But I commit that I will look 

at the subpoena and will address all the issues in it. 
14 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. I will be rather tenacious in looking for 

cooperation on that. 

Ms. Lerner, I just want to get your assessment. We talked yesterday a little bit about this White Paper. I realize this is probably 

not going to be within your office’s jurisdiction, but can you just 

talk about how corrosive something like that is coming from the Office of Inspector General? 

Ms. LERNER. One of the primary roles of an IG office is to inspire 

confidence in employees because you need them to do your work as 

an IG. I think it is similar to the Office of Special Counsel. Employees need to feel comfortable coming to you and reporting waste, 

fraud, abuse, and other misconduct. It is the lifeblood of what we 

do. And my concern with that White Paper is that it sends a message to the wider VA community that if you do come forward, your 

reputation may become an issue. And that I think has a very 

chilling effect potentially on the workforce, and so it concerns me 

from that perspective. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. Thank you. I want to be respectful of 

time. I will go to Senator Carper. 

Senator CARPER. Thanks again very much. 

Mr. Missal, the IG launched investigations over a year ago, I 

think maybe close to 100 investigations, at facilities across the 

country. I am told there are about 25 that are still outstanding and 

incomplete. I am told that the workload that the IG’s office carries 

is enormous, and the other challenges and problems are far greater 

than the workforce allows them to address. What should be done 

about that? And I might say the VA facility in Wilmington, Delaware, including South Jersey and all of Delaware, we are very 

proud of, but we have been waiting for a long time for that report. 

Mr. MISSAL. Well, Senator, one of the first priorities, if confirmed, will be to immerse myself into the work, the priorities, the 

plans of the office to make sure that things are properly staffed. 

If I come to the conclusion that additional resources are needed, I 

certainly would bring it to the attention of this Committee. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Thank you. Let me just talk about 

cross-agency collaboration between the VA IG’s office and the Office 

of Special Counsel. We have heard that it is not the best, and I always like to say if it is not perfect, make it better. That is one of 

my guiding principles in life. What do you think you all might do, 

each of you just very briefly, what might you do to improve the relationship between your agencies and to better protect whistleblowers? Do you want to go first, Ms. Lerner? 

Ms. LERNER. I guess it is better to be forward-looking than backward, but—and I am very optimistic that we will be able to work 

with the new VA IG leadership. The primary problem that we have 

had in the past has been basically the lack of a collaborative and 

cooperative relationship, and in particular with regards to information sharing, which is really important so that we are not duplicating efforts, and using our resources wisely, and we should be 

sharing information with each other. I am very hopeful that with 

new leadership that will happen. Mr. Missal and I have spoken a 

couple of times. I am sure that we will have further conversations 

about the ways that our offices can work together in a productive 

way. 
15 

Senator CARPER. Good. Thank you. 

Mr. Missal, just very briefly. 

Mr. MISSAL. Sure. I believe that the Office of Special Counsel 

plays a really important role, that the mission of the Office of Inspector General is very similar in some respects to what the Office 

of Special Counsel does. And they should work very closely together, share resources, share information, work collaboratively. 

Senator CARPER. OK. Let us talk about whistleblower protection. 

As I think others have mentioned, maybe the Chairman, our Committee held a hearing where VA employees recounted their experiences blowing the whistle on misconduct. Some of these whistleblowers expressed the view that we also heard from others that the 

IG’s office does not maintain whistleblower confidentiality when investigating complaints. I do not know if you are aware of these concerns. I would like to ask you if you are. What would you do to find 

out if they are valid? And if they are, what would you do about it? 

Mr. MISSAL. Well, I am generally aware of it from what I have 

read in publicly available information. This is something that I 

have zero tolerance for in terms of any mistreatment of whistleblowers. I share Ms. Lerner’s belief that whistleblowers are very 

critical to the workings of better government, and one of my goals 

would be to increase the environment for whistleblowers so that 

they feel comfortable coming forward and to treat them with respect and dignity. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Ms. Lerner, Senator Cardin in his introduction of you went through some metrics, interesting metrics— 

you mentioned them as well—in terms of measuring the performance, good performance, by you and the team that you lead. What 

could other agency heads, what could other managers in the Federal Government learn from you and from your team that might be 

transferable to them? 

Ms. LERNER. Thank you for the question. It is an interesting one. 

I think necessity is the mother of invention—I think that is the—— 

Senator CARPER. I have heard that before. 

Ms. LERNER. And we really needed to come up with more efficient, creative ways of doing business because of the influx of cases. 

Our staff has seen their caseloads double and triple. We are inundated with cases. And we are a small agency. We have about 140 

employees. We have jurisdiction for the entire civil workforce. With 

the new VA cases that make up about 30 or 40 percent of our 

cases, our caseload increased by 1,000 in just over one year. So we 

have had to look really carefully at the way we do business and see 

if there are more efficient ways of doing it. 

One thing that I have really emphasized is mediation. It gets 

cases resolved more quickly, often with better results, and without 

a full investigation. We do not have to spend a year investigating 

a case that we think has merit. If we think that we can get it 

solved early, that is what we do, and that has been my instruction 

to the case examiners as well. We do not even have to get to the 

point where it goes to mediation or to a full investigation. If the 

case examiners can resolve a case early on, let us do it. 

We have come up with a pilot project that consolidates four different positions into one to try and see if that can lead to more effi-
16 

1The White Paper submitted by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 333. 

2The letters submitted by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 316. 

ciencies and be more effective, and I am very optimistic that that 

project is going to work out. 

So I guess the short answer is look for new ways of doing business. Old models may work, but sometimes you have to be flexible 

and come up with more efficient ways. 

Senator CARPER. My time has expired. I just want to add one last 

thing. If there are things that we need to be doing, we, this Committee, or the Senate, the House, the Administration, to enable you 

and your folks to do an even better job going forward and continue 

these kind of results, please let us know. Thank you. 

Ms. LERNER. Thank you. 

Senator CARPER. And I thank you both for a great job. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Carper. 

Before I move on to Senator Portman, I just want to ask consent 

to enter into the record the White Paper issued by the Office of Inspector General,1 my July 8 response to the White Paper, my September 29 letter to Ms. Linda Halliday asking her to find out who 

wrote the White Paper, and then her October 6 response saying she 

would not give me those names.2 So we will just enter that in the 

record. 

Senator Portman. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PORTMAN 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And for both of 

you, thank you for your continued interest in serving your country. 

I am going to focus my comments, Mr. Missal, on your important 

role. The men and women in uniform who have put their lives at 

risk for all of us deserve the best, and as you know, they have not 

always received that in terms of their health care. This is an issue 

that has had a lot of focus in general. I do think that Secretary 

McDonald appreciates the need for us to reform the way veterans 

are getting their health care. Back home, I have held a bunch of 

town meetings on this and gotten some good input. We have a long 

list of concerns. The long waiting lists you know about, the adjudication of claims, some of the eligibility requirements. Things like 

Agent Orange eligibility is a big concern back in Ohio. 

But let me focus on one that is a little different, and it builds 

on something the Chairman just talked about, and that is the issue 

of mental health treatment and the overprescription of painkillers, 

particularly opiates, that have led too often to the use of heroin 

and to some tragic circumstances. 

I have been focusing on this issue for a number of years, and I 

think, although there has been some progress made, there is a lot 

more that needs to be done. So I would just ask you in your role 

as Inspector General—where, as you know, you have a responsibility to look at health care issues, review medical center operations, evaluate the health care programs, provide oversight really 

on the critical role that the VA plays in health care—what you plan 

to do about that. 

One common theme that I have found as I talk to veterans is 

that too often it is just too easy for doctors in the VA system to 
17 

1The GAO report submitted by Senator Portman appears in the Appendix on page 346. 

prescribe painkillers that are narcotics, that are opiates, that, 

again, lead to a similar high to heroin but a more expensive one. 

This, of course, has devastated families, torn communities apart, 

robbed individuals of their dreams. 

I recently met with a veteran in Columbus, Ohio, who lost a family member who started on prescription drugs that were given to 

him by the VA to deal with pain, and then moved to heroin and 

eventually overdosed on heroin. The Chairman talked about the 

whistleblower who helped to reveal some of these cases and eventually committed suicide. 

This VA Inspector General report from 2012 and 2013 found that 

VA providers often inadequately assessed patients who were prescribed opiates, inadequately monitored patients on opiates, were 

asked by facility managers to write opiate prescriptions for patients 

they had not even assessed. There is a more recent concern I have, 

which is the use of opiates for post traumatic stress disorder 

(PTSD) and traumatic brain injury. This report was just issued last 

week. This is a report by the Government Accountability Office 

(GAO) with regard to the Department of Defense (DOD) and VA 

health care actions needed to help ensure appropriate medication 

and continuation in prescribing practices. I brought two copies 

today because, Ms. Lerner, I think you also will be indirectly involved in this issue. I would like to hand these to you today and 

also enter this, Mr. Chairman, into the record.1 It is fresh off the 

presses, and it has some very disturbing information in it, including the following: 

VA’s new policy to ensure continuation of mental health medications lacks clarity on the types of medications considered mental 

health medications. As a result, the providers may be inappropriately changing or discontinuing mental health medications due to 

formulary differences, potentially increasing the risk of adverse 

health effects for transitioning servicemembers. And, again, if you 

look on pages 14, 15, 16, and page 23, you will see the reference 

to opiate use even for traumatic brain injury. 

So my question to you is: If nominated, I would like your assurance you are going to look into these matters in order to help us 

hold the VA accountable for the proper care of our veterans who 

deserve the best. 

Mr. MISSAL. Senator, I will do so, including look at any recommendations that have been previously made on these issues and 

see whether or not they have been implemented. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Mr. Missal. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. And without objection, your and my records 

will be entered into the record. 

Senator Baldwin. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BALDWIN 

Senator BALDWIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank 

you for holding this nomination hearing today. 

Welcome to the nominees. I thank you both for being here and 

your willingness to serve the public, and especially to serve our Na-
18 

tion’s veterans. The Special Counsel at the Office of Special Counsel and the Inspector General at the Department of Veterans Affairs both play essential roles in the oversight of our Government 

and the care of our veterans. As I have seen in Tomah, Wisconsin, 

and indeed in the rest of the Nation, effective oversight is crucial 

to confronting the many challenges that plague VA. Unfortunately, 

in the past few years, this oversight has been lacking, and troubling issues like whistleblower retaliation have persisted. 

So I am glad, Mr. Chairman, that we are moving forward with 

these nominees today, and I hope that this hearing offers us a 

chance to make progress in fixing what is broken. 

Mr. Missal, you are aware of some of the challenges facing the 

Tomah VA Medical Center in Wisconsin and the IG’s early role in 

addressing those challenges in the form of a review that was done 

on inappropriate prescribing of controlled substances and abuse of 

authority. That review was closed—in my view, prematurely—and 

subsequent investigations have further exposed serious issues at 

the Tomah VA, issues that were allowed to go on for far too long 

with absolutely tragic consequences. 

As we move forward, it is essential that the VA Office of Inspector General is more transparent and works more cooperatively with 

Congress to confront the serious problems that exist at the VA. 

In order to help make the IG’s office more transparent, I successfully included language in the recently passed omnibus appropriations bill to ensure that when the VA OIG completes a report, it 

is promptly shared with the VA Secretary, Congress, and the public. That language would help address failures of transparency and 

agency oversight by requiring any recommendations made by the 

VA OIG during investigations, audits, or other reports to be sent 

directly to the VA Secretary—something that was not done in the 

case that I described. In addition, these recommendations would be 

made available to the public and submitted directly to relevant congressional oversight committees. 

If confirmed, will you commit to significantly improving transparency at the VA Office of Inspector General? And if so, what specific steps will you take to make sure this happens? 

Mr. MISSAL. Senator, I will do so. I agree with you. I believe 

transparency, increased transparency, is very important. I think it 

is one of the things that could increase the trust and confidence 

that our veterans and the American public would have in not only 

the VA OIG but VA as well. I intend to take a number of steps, 

including looking at what they are doing now. If there are reports 

that are not being made public that should be made public, particularly on the health care side, I cannot imagine a situation—although I do need to learn more—why a health care report would 

not be released publicly if it is completed. So that is one of the 

things I am going to look at and then have further discussions with 

the staff about other opportunities to increase transparency. 

Senator BALDWIN. Ms. Lerner, you have mentioned that 30 to 40 

percent of your caseload comes from VA employees and that these 

employees were projected to make up approximately 37.5 percent 

of the whistleblower retaliation cases in the past year. As I have 

seen firsthand in Wisconsin with retaliation against whistleblowers 

at the Tomah VA and other facilities in the State, there are signifi-
19 

cant and troubling issues with the whistleblower culture at the Department of Veterans Affairs. The Office of Special Counsel plays 

a key role and you are an ally in this area, both in advocating for 

individual whistleblowers, such as Ryan Honl, who blew the whistle on opioid overprescription at the Tomah VA, and in pressing for 

policy changes at the VA. 

I have run out of time, but I hope you will followup on your testimony at the Appropriations Subcommittee hearing on whistleblower culture at the VA in terms of your as whether enough is 

being done at the VA at this point to create an environment where 

whistleblowers can feel safe in coming forward with information 

that helps improve the agency. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Would you like to quickly respond? 

Ms. LERNER. Sure. Just very briefly, I think that there is a really 

good message that is coming from the top. What I hear Secretary 

McDonald saying and Deputy Secretary Gibson saying, it is new 

from what we heard a year and a half, 2 years ago, and that sets 

a tone that is really important. 

The problem is the VA is such a large institution. It has so many 

facilities. It has the regions and then the individual facilities. And 

that message has to trickle down throughout the country, and it 

may take a little bit of time, but there are things that can be done. 

More training: The VA is doing a lot now. They can do more. We 

have helped them with training. We have trained the trainers. We 

have trained their investigators. We have trained their regional 

counsel. We have made training materials available to them. They 

need to do more of it. 

They need to hold managers accountable. One of the missing 

links here—we have seen a lot of progress in many ways, but the 

one area that still concerns me very much is discipline for managers who are found responsible. And we need to work on that. 

That will help change the culture. 

So just in brief, I think the VA is heading in the right direction. 

I think a new IG is going to really help a lot, so there is reason 

to be optimistic, but there is still a lot of work to be done. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Ayotte. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AYOTTE 

Senator AYOTTE. I want to thank the Chairman, and I want to 

thank both of you for your service and your willingness to serve in 

such important positions for our country. 

There has been a lot of discussion today about the Tomah VA situation, and I was very interested to hear you say, Ms. Lerner, that 

we need to hold managers in the VA more accountable for their actions. Yet what happened not just at Tomah but also with what 

happened at Phoenix is appalling because there were thousands of 

dollars of bonuses, actually millions overall, but thousands to individuals each at those VA facilities who were managers, who got bonuses even though they were participating in the misconduct that 

occurred, and this body here in HSGAC, Senator McCaskill and I 

introduced a bill to claw back those bonuses and to deal with this 

going forward. It was changed to be only prospective. Our Committee voted it out, and the VA Committee did its work and voted 

it out. And guess what? I tried to get it passed right before we left 
20 

at the end of the year, and people are anonymously objecting to essentially just saying if you commit misconduct—because the managers at the Tomah facility got bonuses between $1,000 to $4,000 

even though they oversaw the overprescription of opiates to veterans and, of course, we know that veterans died. 

So we have to be part of the solution, too, and if people are going 

to object to legislation like that, it is just appalling to me. So I just 

wanted to bring that up because, as we see more accountability, if 

we are going to continue giving bonuses to people who participate 

in misconduct, and with no mechanism in current law to actually 

take back those bonuses or revisit issues like that or to actually 

discipline managers, then we are going to continue to see this cycle 

going forward. 

I know we did the right thing in this Committee, but I am going 

to continue to push this on the Senate floor because I find it appalling that anyone would object to that legislation. And so come forward, identify yourself. I look forward to having the debate on the 

floor with you about why you think that this is not appropriate. 

I am so glad to see both of you here. Ms. Lerner, thank you for 

your incredible work. We are so glad to have your renomination 

here today. And, Mr. Missal, you are being asked to perform a very 

important job. On a bipartisan basis in this Committee, this position was vacant for 630 days, and all of us really pushed. This was 

not a partisan issue. We needed this position filled because of the 

many issues not just at Tomah and Phoenix, across the country we 

were hearing from our veterans that needed a watchdog. So I am 

so glad to see you here today, and you have such an important job, 

working with Ms. Lerner and really having accountability in the 

VA. Our veterans deserve that, and we need to do it, and you have 

such an important job. 

I wanted to ask you about health care in the VA, and that is the 

Veterans Choice Program, which offers eligibility to veterans, the 

option of receiving care in their community at a private provider. 

This is very important in New Hampshire because we do not have 

a full-service veterans hospital. And, in fact, there is a provision 

that was passed in the VA reform law that allows our veterans in 

New Hampshire, almost like a pilot, allows them to go seek private 

care because we do not have a full-service hospital. But there have 

been a lot of bumps in actually getting this program right for our 

veterans, and the VA’s Inspector General Office has issued semiannual reports. The most recent report has only a passing reference to the Choice Program. 

So I would ask you, I hope that as you do your work in the Inspector General’s Office, all the work that we have tried to do on 

the wait lists, on the issue of making sure that veterans have access to care in their community, we have to get this program right. 

We have to allow veterans to choose so they are not waiting and 

so they are not driving long distance for their care, especially in my 

home State of New Hampshire. But also this is an issue across the 

country. 

So I would ask you how familiar you are with the Veterans 

Choice Program, what oversight you will bring to the program, and 

do I have your commitment to personal oversight over this program 
21 

and some review of this program to make sure we get this right 

for our veterans? 

Mr. MISSAL. Senator, I am generally aware of the program. I 

know it is a relatively new program that was implemented to fill 

a real need out there. I do not know what oversight the OIG’s office 

is doing right now, but you do have my commitment to look into 

it because I do recognize how important it is. And it is a new program. There is a possibility there could be issues, and you want to 

address those issues before they become larger issues. 

Senator AYOTTE. Well, let me just say that I do not think there 

has been enough oversight at this point, and also, as a new program, this is interjecting change to the VA, and we all know that 

often people do not want to change when there is a new program 

to give veterans access to care. So I would ask you to make sure 

that we also deal with the issue of this type of change coming with 

the agency and focus on the oversight of getting it right for our veterans, because Congress, we support this program. It is important 

for our veterans to have the choice for their care and to have the 

access so that they never have to wait and they do not have to 

drive long distances to get the care that they have earned defending this Nation. 

Mr. MISSAL. I will do so, Senator. 

Senator AYOTTE. All right. Thank you both. I appreciate it. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Ayotte. 

Just to underscore the point, ‘‘bumps’’ is being kind. There is a 

veteran in Wisconsin who had pancreatic cancer, and they were 

forcing him to drive more than 100 miles to get treatment in Milwaukee, where, again, he could have gone to Marshfield. 

Senator AYOTTE. Yes, it is crazy. 

Chairman JOHNSON. It is. 

Senator AYOTTE. It is crazy, and our veterans should not have to 

drive. They should be able to decide, and we owe it to them to get 

this right. 

Chairman JOHNSON. So, again, you view that as a pilot program. 

There are a lot of bumps, and that is something that the Office of 

Inspector General really needs to look into. Senator Ernst 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST 

Senator ERNST. Thank you very much. It is so nice to have you 

both in front of us today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for calling for 

this nomination hearing. 

I want to thank your families as well for joining you today. It 

takes a lot to put that on their shoulders as well. And for those 

that came from the OSC, we want to thank you for your very important work. 

You can tell—this is not the Veterans’ Affairs Committee, but 

you can tell that the members of this Committee are very, very 

passionate about the care that not only our veterans are provided 

through the VA health care system, but also those that see issues 

within that VA health care system and protecting those whistleblowers and making sure that they are afforded the opportunity to 

speak out without reprisal. So thank you again for the work that 

you are doing. 
22 

Mr. Missal, it is good to see you again. I appreciate you taking 

the time before the holidays to sit down with me and my staff and 

talk through a number of these issues. Again, very passionate 

about the care that we provide to our veterans. 

It was actually last March when all of the Members of this Committee joined together in a letter to the President asking for a 

nominee to this position of Inspector General for the VA. So we do 

need to act swiftly on this. I am very excited about this opportunity, and I, like a number of our other Members—Chairman 

Johnson, you and Senator Baldwin have had frustrations with the 

VA in Wisconsin—all of us have had specific frustrations with our 

own VA health care centers. 

Last February, I requested a review of the mental health care 

provided to an Iraq war veteran from the Des Moines area, a young 

man that committed suicide. And the VA IG’s office did not report 

back to me for many months. And, again, this was a very serious 

situation. Again, a young man had taken his own life out of the 

frustration that he felt, and now the frustration that we all bear. 

So, again, it was months before they got back to my office, and 

my State staff has also reported to me that the VA OIG has failed 

to respond to their repeated requests for an update on three cases, 

now three additional cases in Iowa that were opened last spring. 

So this is not a one-time occurrence for any of us. Repeated requests for information on cases that are going unanswered. 

Can you please just repeat to me your commitment to all of us 

on this Committee that you will assist us in our oversight responsibilities in a timely manner and keep us effectively informed on 

all OIG matters? 

Mr. MISSAL. Senator, I recognize the important role an IG can 

play in assisting the Committee and Congress in its oversight responsibility. I think you will find me highly communicative, that I 

would respond very quickly to requests. I may not always have the 

answer right away. It sometimes takes time to develop it. But I 

just believe it is important to keep people informed of the progress 

so you know exactly what is going on. 

Senator ERNST. That is wonderful. I appreciate that very much 

because, unfortunately, as we have seen all too many times in the 

past that there has not been the followup necessary, and those 

months at delay could mean another veteran that has been left untreated or another veteran that takes their own life because of the 

lack of care provided by the VA. So we do have to be vigilant in 

this oversight, and it quite literally is a matter of life and death. 

So I just want to make sure that we all understand how important 

it is for timely response. 

I was a little appalled to learn during this Committee’s hearing 

last September that the VA OIG investigates only a fraction of the 

approximately 40,000 complaints—40,000—that it gets annually. 

And I understand that both the VA OIG and the OSC are resource 

constrained, but a top priority of both organizations should be ensuring that not one of these VA whistleblower complaints goes unresolved. 

So I would like to hear just very briefly your general thoughts 

on that. 
23 

Mr. MISSAL. Sure. I understand there are 40,000 contacts to the 

hotline a year, give or take some. I do not know what they are 

doing to triage those, how they decide which ones are addressed, 

which ones are not. But that is, again, one thing that I find very 

important. If there is an issue out there that needs to be addressed, 

it needs to be addressed quickly and figure out a way to find resources to at least initially address them and see what can be done. 

Senator ERNST. Thank you. 

Ms. Lerner, just very briefly. 

Ms. LERNER. Sure. Let me tell you just briefly some of the steps 

that OSC has taken to prioritize VA cases. We have set up a triage 

system that prioritizes VA health and safety cases, so any case involving health and safety, whether it is a disclosure or someone 

who claims retaliation for having reported a health and safety violation, those get a very quick look. We have a senior counsel who 

is assigned full-time to coordinate our VA cases. I have assigned 

one of my deputies to coordinate VA cases. They meet weekly with 

the VA team of employees at OSC that we created after we got this 

total influx of new cases. That team meets weekly. 

We have worked with the VA Office of General Counsel and Office of Accountability and Review to expedite the resolution of VA 

retaliation cases so that we can get quicker, better results without 

having to do a full investigation. 

So those are just some of the things that we are doing to 

prioritize VA cases at the OSC. 

Senator ERNST. I appreciate it very much. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Lankford. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you both for being here and for your 

service to get to this point. 

Ms. Lerner, let me ask you about budget items. When you first 

came in—well, let us go back to 2011. We have a good picture 

there. Your budget was $18 million. It is now $24 million. Tell us 

about, as you have mentioned before, how we are getting a bang 

for a buck in that increased spending. What has changed, both the 

efficiency of that kind of increase in budget, and what is the taxpayer getting better now than they were in 2011? 

Ms. LERNER. Thank you for your question. I am really proud of 

the way we have been able to manage our budget. When I came 

in, we had about 108 employees. Again, we have jurisdiction for the 

entire Federal civilian workforce, basically more or less, a few exceptions. And we now have about 140 employees, so that increase 

in personnel has gone a long way towards letting us handle this 

influx of VA cases. 

Let me give you an example of one case that I think is typical 

of the way we can get a return on our budget, return on the taxpayer’s money. 

Department of Homeland Security whistleblowers came to us reporting the abuse of overtime, widespread abuse by CBP and Border Patrol agents and other employees at the Department. We were 

able to do a full investigation. We did a full report, and working 

with this Committee, we were able to get legislation, bipartisan 
24 

legislation, through Congress that changes the overtime pay system at the Department of Homeland Security. The Congressional 

Budget Office (CBO) estimates that those changes are going to result in $100 million a year of savings. Our budget is, as you said, 

about $24 million right now. 

So those types of cases are out there. We are making them. I mean, they are not all $100 million a year of savings, but that is 

the type of case that we think we are now capable of taking. We 

are working with Congress. We view ourselves as partners with 

this Committee and other committees to get legislation through 

when it is needed. So that is the kind of bang that we are getting 

for the buck. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. That is helpful. We will get a chance to 

followup in the days ahead on that as well, just to be able to see 

the effectiveness of that. This is a ‘‘feed the lions’’ type strategy to 

say where we are actually effective and people are efficient with 

dollars. That is entirely reasonable to continue to be able to help 

their budget because they are efficient and have to actually carry 

them out. 

Tell me about internal controls for personally identifiable information (PII) and limiting the access of individuals to information 

that they really do not need to access. This has been an issue in 

several of the agencies where they have access to information for 

other people, both inside and outside the organization, and no internal controls to make sure they are not accessing it inappropriately. 

Ms. LERNER. Well, that has definitely been a problem at the VA 

and something that we have talked to them a lot about. We think 

that there are technical fixes that can solve that problem fairly easily at the VA, and I look forward to talking to Mr. Missal about 

that. 

What we have seen at the VA is, many of the folks who work 

there are also patients. 

Senator LANKFORD. Right. 

Ms. LERNER. And so what is happening is someone who might be 

sort of mischief-minded is going into the medical records of their 

coworkers or oftentimes it is people who have blown the whistle 

and getting access to their medical information. 

Senator LANKFORD. Mr. Missal, how do we stop that? 

Mr. MISSAL. I think you need to look at it very closely. If there 

is a technology fix to do, I think we need to—— 

Senator LANKFORD. Which I think there is. 

Mr. MISSAL [continuing]. Use the resources to do it, and then to 

make a recommendation and then followup to make sure that recommendation is implemented. 

Senator LANKFORD. I would highly recommend that we do look 

through that process to see what technology. Some agencies do a 

great job at that. Most agencies do not. They are not limiting the 

access of people that work there to getting information that they 

do not have any business professionally actually accessing. And VA 

is one of those areas of many there. Many people around this dais 

know—and I have talked to many others around this place. I am 

one of many that I look toward the horizon with VA and see the 

days ahead that VA will be small-scale clinics for ongoing care, but 
25 

that veterans can choose to go any place they want to go for health 

care in the days ahead, and that the veterans have this absolute 

choice to say you do not have to drive past seven good hospitals to 

be able to get to the VA hospital, then wait 3 months for a knee 

replacement that you could get 3 miles from your house, that there 

is the moment that we actually treat our veterans with the ability 

to be able to choose. And I know you have already had some conversation about the Choice Program. I think that does need a tremendous amount of oversight. My perception is from meeting with 

some of the individuals at VA that they seem reluctant to actually 

implement the congressional mandate for choice, and they are trying to find ways not to give choice, or to say, yes, we can take care 

of that internally. But I think that is a big issue. 

I would also say to you that I would recommend that the IG 

looks at things like staff turnover. Every time I talk to veterans, 

they say, ‘‘When I return back to the VA, I am with a new doctor 

and I saw a different nurse than I saw last year,’’ because the turnover rate is so high. There is a basic question there of why. Why 

would the turnover rate be high? Because that affects actual care 

for those individuals. 

I would like to ask you as well just on priority of your own investigations and your own personality with this, there is a tendency 

with some of the IGs to look at efficiency of how the agency operates rather than the quality of care the patient receives. So as an 

IG, what I am interested to hear from you is when you do investigations, are you looking at how well paper is moving and how fast 

paper is moving through the VA or how good the care will be for 

the veteran when they come into the VA centers? 

Mr. MISSAL. I do not think they are necessarily mutually exclusive. I think you can look at both. The quality of care to me for veterans is a critically important issue, but also the economy and efficiencies of how the Department operates, which could impact the 

quality of care, I think is also very important. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. So at the end of the day, veteran care 

will be essential. I will tell you one of the veteran families that I 

spoke to just last weekend, trying to gather all the records for their 

dad, and they cannot go any one place and get his health records. 

The dentist has it over here, and the general person has it here, 

and the surgeon has it over here, and they all have to request each 

other. And so there is a lot of conversation about centralized 

records. That is not actually occurring in the VA system. And literally the different specialists do not know what each other is 

doing, and when they even try to get all the files together, they literally were going section to section to be able to get it. 

There is some basic operational movement of paper that does affect the quality of care for our veterans, but at the end of the day, 

I would encourage you to focus in on what is the care that is being 

received and what are the impediments to good quality care more 

than anything else. 

Mr. MISSAL. I will, Senator. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Heitkamp. 
26 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

It is interesting, because we have been talking a lot about efficiency, a lot about quality of care, but the issues that the VA confronts are issues of life and death. That is how serious this is. That 

is how serious we are about making sure that we have an oversight 

system and that we have partnerships with both of your agencies 

in terms of providing oversight, because it can mean the difference 

between life and death. That is how critical this is. 

And as we kind of look going forward, I think it is important, although you have heard a lot about choice here, that you understand this from the perspective of a rural State, where I think the 

Chairman talked about a 100-mile drive. I have Native American 

veterans who live in the northwest part of my State who literally 

have to drive 5 hours to get chemotherapy. 

Now, as somebody who is a breast cancer survivor, the last thing 

I wanted to do before and after my chemotherapy was get in a car 

and drive 5 hours. 

This is a sacred duty that we have to make sure that our veterans are treated appropriately, and this body, the U.S. Congress, 

signed by the President, have adopted a new policy, which is called 

‘‘Choice,’’ that there ought to be an opportunity for that veteran, 

that 90-year-old veteran who may be getting chemotherapy to get 

it at home or get it as close to home as he can or she can. 

And so I would tell you, since the rollout of the Choice Program 

in November 2014, an overwhelming number of veterans, family 

members, doctors, and health care providers have contacted my office out of frustration. And you hear that frustration among all the 

members here. We have to have a watchdog, because this is a very 

big bureaucracy that thinks they are just going to wait this out, 

that if people’s attention just deviates from the problems of the 

past, that we will, in fact, be pulled off target. 

I am not going to be pulled off target on the Choice Program. I 

am not going to be pulled off target on making sure that our veterans get the benefits that they have earned by serving this country. And so, Mr. Missal—and I thank you so much for coming into 

my office. I know that you heard the same kind of passion there. 

But I want to really impress upon you how truly important it is 

to look at this program and look at what this means, because it can 

mean life and death, and to think about even if there is not outright fraud or abuse—and no one is claiming that—that the efficiency and fulfilling the promise of this program is within your 

mission. 

Mr. MISSAL. I understand that, Senator. 

Senator HEITKAMP. OK. Thank you. And I want to maybe just 

take a moment and talk about following up with Senator Ayotte, 

talk about the bonuses, because, is it appalling that these bonuses 

were paid and not paid back? Absolutely. And we will work 

through that. But what is appalling to me is that we created a system by providing bonuses that provided a huge incentive for fraud. 

And I know this is far-reaching, but as you look at kind of administration, how do you see being proactive on the front end of those 

kinds of decisions that are made to prevent fraud or prevent 

incentivizing fraud by staff? 
27 

Mr. MISSAL. Sure. I think there are several things. One, that 

could be part of the audit function when you are going to test 

things to identify issues before they become larger problems. 

Second, the IG also can weigh in on proposed legislation to determine the efficiency, effectiveness, things like that, so the ways the 

IG can use his or her voice to come in on issues such as the ones 

you raise. 

Senator HEITKAMP. So the great tragedy is that an incentive program that was built to improve the quality of care actually led, in 

my opinion, to fraud because all of a sudden there was a monetary 

reward which you could get if you lied. Right? 

Mr. MISSAL. Correct. 

Senator HEITKAMP. So that is the kind of thing that we need to 

be very proactive on, not just taking care of what are the decisions 

today but how decisions in administering the programs at the VA 

can, in fact, create even more bureaucracy for our veterans. 

So I want to thank both of you for stepping up and for being part 

of this important life-and-death mission, which is providing those 

services that some of the great heroes of this country have earned. 

And so thank you, and if there is anything that we can do on this 

Committee or anything I can personally do to assist you in carrying 

out that mission, I hope that you pick up the phone and call me 

personally. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp. 

I think because of the strong attendance and, I think, thoughtful 

questions and answers, I really do not have any further questions. 

I know Senator Carper does. Before we give you both an opportunity to kind of make a closing comment, we will turn to Senator 

Carper. 

Senator CARPER. Thanks so much. I was not going to ask another 

question, but I want to ask one lighthearted question and one serious question. 

I said to the Chairman and I would say it to Senator Heitkamp— 

I have spoken to our staffs—I feel very fortunate. I felt fortunate 

walking into this hearing that one of you is already serving in an 

important role in our government and that the other is willing to 

serve. You are two very impressive people. I would just ask your 

wife—was it Deborah? 

Mr. MISSAL. Yes. 

Senator CARPER. And your husband—is it Dwight? 

Ms. LERNER. Yes. 

Senator CARPER. Were these two people this smart when you 

first met them? [Laughter.] 

Have they, like, learned from you? Has it, like, rubbed off? I 

mean, what—I do not know. 

Mr. MISSAL. I do not want her to answer that question. [Laughter.] 

Ms. LERNER. My kids would tell you it is all them. 

Senator CARPER. I have heard many people say of their teen-aged 

children that their kids think that they are just the dumbest parents in the world, and then when the kids turn 18 or 19, it all 

changes. How old is your son? 

Mr. MISSAL. 22. 
28 

Senator CARPER. And how old are your kids? 

Ms. LERNER. My daughter is 18, and my son is 21. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Well, you are over the hill. 

Ms. LERNER. We are still waiting for that. [Laughter.] 

Senator CARPER. You are almost over the hump. 

Here is my serious question: James Lankford asked really good 

questions, a very perceptive fellow, and talked about the idea of 

having a VA in the future where we have our outpatient clinics, 

which I think do provide great service. But for the most part, the 

mother ship—the hospitals and so forth—would use existing hospitals within the communities across our country, and that is an 

idea that has some appeal. But I also know as a veteran myself, 

somebody who has spent a lot of time—23 years, 5 years in a hot 

war in Southeast Asia, another 18 right up to the end of the cold 

war—as a naval flight officer. But I know that sometimes the conditions that veterans are treated for—PTSD is certainly one, Agent 

Orange is another, but there are others—are ones that veterans 

feel like they get better care and maybe better focused care in a 

VA facility. 

Our community college back in Delaware, Delaware Technical 

Community College, has created a unit that is run by veterans for 

veterans, coming in many cases back from Afghanistan and back 

from Iraq. They are on the campus and are trying to acclimate to 

being a student, and some of the most go-to people there is a unit 

that is run by veterans. So that is in the back of my mind. 

One of the things that he said that caused me special concern 

was that it sounded like he was suggesting a breakdown in communications between specialties within VA hospitals and facilities. 

And if that is widespread, that is a matter of huge concern to me. 

It was, I do not know, maybe 15, 20 years ago that the VA began 

experimenting with electronic health records, and many people give 

the VA credit for being a pioneer, first on the beach in terms of deploying that kind of technology to provide for better health care for 

less money. And I would just ask of you, Mr. Missal—I will try to 

make you a guided missile here, as opposed to an unguided missile. 

But I would urge you to take a look at that. We know that there 

is a problem with interoperability between the electronic health 

records within the VA and within the Department of Defense. People come off active duty and have one kind of electronic health 

record. They go into the VA, and it is different, and the two do not 

communicate. There has been a huge effort to try to address that. 

But I would ask you to monitor that interoperability between the 

Departments, but also Senator Lankford’s comments with respect 

to the breakdown of communications within a hospital across specialty units. 

Again, you all have done a great job. We are hopeful that we will 

get you reported out of here and get you confirmed by the Senate, 

and you can continue to do the good work you are doing, Ms. 

Lerner. And, Mr. Missal, you will be able to be a guided missile 

and go to work and do a great job there, as you have in other chapters of your life. 

Again, our thanks to your families. 

Mr. MISSAL. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Carper. 
29 

I will just give both of you the opportunity, if you have some closing comments, and we will let Ms. Lerner go first. 

Ms. LERNER. I do not have anything prepared, but I just wanted 

to thank you both, Senator Johnson and Senator Carper, both for 

the hearing today and also for the work that you have done with 

my agency over the last 41⁄2 years. I really do view us as partners 

in trying to make government work better, more efficiently, and 

keep it safe. And we can be more effective when we are working 

with you, and so I have really appreciated that partnership and 

your support over these last 41⁄2 years. So thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Ms. Lerner. Mr. Missal. 

Mr. MISSAL. I would also like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Carper, and the Committee, for the courtesies extended today, 

the opportunity to discuss our views with you. I am committed to 

working tirelessly and independently on behalf of veterans and the 

American public. I am also committed to working cooperatively and 

collaboratively with this Committee as well, and I am available to 

answer any other questions you may have. 

Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. 

Senator CARPER. Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Sure. 

Senator CARPER. Could I ask, Ms. Lerner, if you were just to give 

Mr. Missal one word of advice, just terrific advice that really 

helped you in the success at your agency, give him just one really 

great piece of advice as he prepares, once confirmed, to assume his 

new responsibilities, what would that be? 

Ms. LERNER. Hire really great people. You are one person. I am 

one person. The reason that we have been able to be effective as 

an agency is because I have been able to recruit and retain really 

talented staff who do the day-to-day work of protecting whistleblowers, and I could not be prouder to serve with them, but they 

are the reason that we have been able to be successful. So my one 

piece of advice is to surround yourself with people who are smarter 

than you are and, who will really make a difference. 

Senator CARPER. It is funny you should say that, because down 

in Guatemala—the Chairman and I have been down to Central 

America, down on the border quite a bit with Mexico. But they are 

going to be swearing in a new President in Guatemala on Thursday 

of this week, a former comedian, Jimmy Morales, who actually had 

his own TV show, and I met with him when I was down there a 

couple of months ago, and he is not that funny. [Laughter.] 

Chairman JOHNSON. I am sure he is, but he is also a very serious 

individual. 

Senator CARPER. But he has a serious side. You know what? He 

said, ‘‘Give me some advice.’’ And the advice I gave him, I said, 

‘‘You will have one chance to put together a world-class team 

around you, and the people who elected you’’—two-thirds of them 

voted for him. ‘‘Look and see who are you going to surround yourself with, the quality of those people, the integrity of those people, 

their commitment to doing a good job.’’ That is great advice, and 

I take that one to heart, and my guess is you already have. 

Thank you. 
30 

1The information of Mr. Missal appears in the Appendix on page 37 and the information for 

Ms. Lerner appears in the Appendix on page 84. 

Chairman JOHNSON. That was a good question. That is a right 

answer. Let us face it, for any organization, a bunch of people. And 

so good answer. 

I want to thank again the nominees. I want to thank their families. Families, look very carefully at these two individuals because 

you will see them probably less. I think Ms. Lerner’s family already 

realizes that. Mr. Missal’s family will soon find that out, because 

this is an enormous task. 

I appreciate a lot of the answers to our questions talking about 

working with this Committee, cooperating, being a partner. When 

you need legislation out of this Committee, let us know. You are 

the ones that understand that. And I hope if you walk away from 

this hearing with basically one thought or one piece of understanding, that it is how even in divided government, even when, a 

lot of times things are pretty partisan, I hope that you understand 

as well as the American people watching this understand, this is 

one area of completely unanimous agreement that we must honor 

the promises to the finest among us to provide them with quality 

care. You are the tip of the spear to provide the transparency and 

the accountability to actually accomplish that shared goal, that 

shared purpose. 

So, again, I just want to thank you, your families, all my colleagues for understanding how important these positions are and 

your willingness to serve. 

With that, for the record, I just want to state that both nominees 

have filed responses to biographical and financial questionnaires, 

answered prehearing questions submitted by the Committee, and 

had their financial statements reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection, this information will be made part 

of the hearing record,1 with the exception of the financial data, 

which is on file and available for public inspection in the Committee offices. 

The hearing record will remain open until noon tomorrow, January 13, 2016, for the submission of statements and questions for 

the record. And I will give you my commitment we will move very 

expeditiously on these two nominations so you can continue your 

important work or start your important work. 

With that, this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:33 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 
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Æ