U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

35–340 WASHINGTON : 2019

FLIPPING THE SWITCH ON RURAL DIGITAL 

ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

UNITED STATES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HEARING HELD 

MARCH 13, 2019 

Small Business Committee Document Number 116–011 

Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Congress.#13
(II) 

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

NYDIA VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman 

ABBY FINKENAUER, Iowa 

JARED GOLDEN, Maine 

ANDY KIM, New Jersey 

JASON CROW, Colorado 

SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas 

JUDY CHU, California 

MARC VEASEY, Texas 

DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania 

BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois 

ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York 

ANTONIO DELGADO, New York 

CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania 

ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member 

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American Samoa, Vice Ranking Member 

TRENT KELLY, Mississippi 

TROY BALDERSON, Ohio 

KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma 

JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota 

PETE STAUBER, Minnesota 

TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee 

ROSS SPANO, Florida 

JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania 

ADAM MINEHARDT, Majority Staff Director 

MELISSA JUNG, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

KEVIN FITZPATRICK, Staff Director 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Hon. Nydia Vela ́zquez ............................................................................................. 1 

Hon. Steve Chabot ................................................................................................... 2 

WITNESSES 

Mr. Dana F. Connors, President & CEO, Maine State Chamber of Commerce, 

Augusta, ME, testifying on behalf of the Maine State Chamber ..................... 5 

Mr. Bill Ingersoll, Owner, Bikes, Trikes, and Quads, Sloansville, NY ............... 6 

Ms. Afton Stout, Owner, My Dinosaur Dreams, State Center, IA ...................... 8 

Mr. Jake Ward, President, Connected Commerce Council, Washington, DC ..... 10 

APPENDIX 

Prepared Statements: 

Mr. Dana F. Connors, President & CEO, Maine State Chamber of Commerce, Augusta, ME, testifying on behalf of the Maine State Chamber .. 31 

Mr. Bill Ingersoll, Owner, Bikes, Trikes, and Quads, Sloansville, NY ........ 36 

Ms. Afton Stout, Owner, My Dinosaur Dreams, State Center, IA ............... 40 

Mr. Jake Ward, President, Connected Commerce Council, Washington, 

DC .................................................................................................................. 43 

Questions for the Record: 

None. 

Answers for the Record: 

None. 

Additional Material for the Record: 

Connected Commerce Council SME Research ............................................... 47 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

SBR002 with DISTILLER

(1) 

FLIPPING THE SWITCH ON RURAL DIGITAL 

ENTREPRENEURSHIP 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 13, 2019 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS, 

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 11:33 a.m., in Room 

2360, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Nydia Vela ́zquez 

[chairwoman of the committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Vela ́zquez, Finkenauer, Kim, Golden, 

Schneider, Delgado, Houlahan, Craig, Chabot, Balderson, Hern, 

Hagedorn, Stauber, Burchett, Spano and Joyce. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Good morning. The committee will 

come to order. 

I thank everyone for joining us this morning, and I want to especially thank the witnesses for being here today. 

In today’s economy, there is no doubt that digital technology has 

revolutionized the way entrepreneurs are looking to build, grow, 

and manage a successful business. 

Whether it is utilizing the latest app to advertise a product or 

engaging in the sharing economy by renting out a work space online, these type of inventions have been a catalyst for small businesses in just the last decade. In fact, three out of four American 

small businesses utilize tech platforms for sales, according to industry estimates. And, an even higher amount use at least one digital platform to display products and services, as well as advertise. 

By harnessing the opportunities of digital platforms and marketplaces, many small businesses and entrepreneurs are experiencing 

growth and success. Look no further than the small businesses testifying here today. 

It is also no secret that some of our country’s most innovative 

ideas and successful small businesses are hatched within our rural 

communities. Yet, in many rural areas throughout this nation, the 

absence of reliable broadband threatens to hold back an entire subset of entrepreneurs. 

Approximately 14 million rural Americans and 1.2 million Americans living on Tribal lands still lack mobile LTE broadband at 

speeds of 10 megabytes per second. Put another way, more than 30 

percent of rural residents lack broadband, compared to just 2 percent of urban residents. Among rural tribal residents, the share increases to 66 percent. 

The stories behind these numbers are of real entrepreneurs 

whose ability to secure affordable capital, expand into new marSBR002 with DISTILLER

2 

kets, and hire workers, are all jeopardized without reliable internet 

access. 

So, it is important that any technological leap to 5G or future investment in infrastructure from Congress secures access to reliable 

broadband, no matter where in the U.S. the next small business 

finds itself. 

We cannot, however, encourage small businesses to adopt today’s 

digital platforms without simultaneously ensuring they have the 

training and resources necessary to protect themselves against 

cyberattacks and bad actors. 

Therefore, today’s conversation about expanding digital opportunities for rural entrepreneurs must also consider how we as members of this committee, can work to make it easier and more affordable for the budding small business to not only utilize digital technology, but be smart about not exposing themselves to greater 

risks. 

Government policies should also keep pace with technological innovations and empower rural entrepreneurships to look beyond geographic boundaries. In order to access new markets and customers 

all over the world, small businesses need policies that encourage 

digital growth, not hinder it. 

Finding the right balance to expand the reach and capabilities of 

rural entrepreneurs while also keeping them safe is a priority for 

this committee. 

It is my hope that today’s discussion can help identify ways to 

support and expand the number of businesses utilizing digital platforms, particularly for those that are in more rural communities. 

With that, I thank each of the witnesses for joining us today and 

I look forward to your testimony. 

I now would like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Chabot, 

for his opening statement. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and good morning to all those that are here today. I want to thank the witnesses 

especially for taking the time out of their busy work day to be here 

with us. 

And before I get into my truly stimulating and emotional and inspiring opening statement on digital opportunities for rural entrepreneurs, I would like to introduce, we have got three students 

here shadowing me today, so if you three could stand up. These 

three are from The Ohio State University. So we appreciate them 

being here. 

So they have seen us discuss NATO in Foreign Affairs. They 

have seen us discuss VAWA, The Violence Against Women Act, and 

amendments on transgender issues and a whole range of issues, 

and so we are going to try to make the Small Business Committee 

just as interesting here today, and I am sure we will succeed. So 

I will get right into it. Here is my stimulating speech. 

The use of digital technologies, including access to high speed 

internet and online tools is gaining popularity in rural areas because of the opportunities they create for small businesses throughout the countryside. Increasingly, digital tools and platforms form 

the foundation of success for the modern day American small business. Small businesses that use digital tools are more nimble, resourceful, and able to reach more potential customers. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

3 

It is no surprise that digitally-powered businesses earn twice the 

revenue and are three times more likely to create jobs. And that 

is, after all, what this Committee is about; trying to create more 

jobs for more Americans. 

Unfortunately, there continues to be a lack of data about the 

rural aspect of the small business economy. What we do know, 

however, is that 27 percent of rural residents still do not have access to a high-speed internet connection. In addition to this lack of 

infrastructure, rural areas lack skilled IT professionals to assist in 

the adoption of more advanced digital technology. That is why this 

new report from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is so timely and 

important. The Chamber surveyed over 5,000 small business owners across rural American about the economic impact to the online 

tools and technology on their businesses. Among other findings 

they discovered that while the ecommerce ecosystem boosts sales 

and reduces costs for rural small companies, such firms are adopting digital tools at a pace much slower than their urban counterparts. 

The study also found that greater use of digital tools and technology could increase greater economic potential for rural small 

businesses across the country. With better access to digital tools 

and technology, the Chamber’s analysis shows potential economic 

benefits in rural areas that is far reaching. For example, the study 

projects that gross sales for rural small firms could increase by 

more than 20 percent over the next 3 years, the equivalent of $84.5 

billion per year. Such increases would also lead to an additional 

$46.9 billion to the U.S. gross domestic product and create over 

360,000, so about a third of a million jobs. 

I am looking forward to today’s discussion and a further examination of these numbers and hearing suggestions about how we 

can increase the utilization of digital tools and technologies. The 

goal, of course, is to unlock the vast potential that is out there in 

the rural small businesses. And again, Ms. Vela ́zquez, thank you 

very much for holding this hearing. I know that was pretty stimulating, and I yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back. 

And if committee members have an opening statement we would 

ask that they be submitted for the record. 

I would like to take a minute to explain the timing rules. Each 

witness gets 5 minutes to testify and every member get 5 minutes 

for questioning. There is a lighting system to assist you. The green 

light will be on when you begin, and the yellow light means that 

there is 1 minute remaining. The red light comes on when you are 

out of time, and I will ask that you please try to stay within the 

timeframe. 

I would now like to yield to Mr. Golden from Maine to introduce 

our first witness. 

Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

I would like to introduce, I am very honored and happy to introduce first Mr. Dana F. Connors. Mr. Connors is the president of the 

Maine State Chamber of Commerce, where he oversees a broad 

range of activities including advocacy efforts, economic and workforce development initiatives in the State of Maine, and a wide variety of member services for the business community. He is a 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

4 

Maine native who received a bachelor’s degree in public management from the University of Maine in 1965. And I would just say 

as someone who worked for 4 years in the Main state legislature, 

I worked closely with Mr. Connors and his business advocacy inside the statehouse. He is a class act. In an age that can sometimes 

be somewhat divisive in our political world, this is exactly the kind 

of guy that you want representing businesses before state legislatures and Congress. He knows how to keep the focus on the business, on the community, and in pulling people together. So just 

want to thank you for that. You have always been someone that 

I look up to very much, so thank you, sir. I look forward to hearing 

your testimony. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I now recognize Mr. Delgado from 

New York to introduce our second witness. 

Mr. DELGADO. Thank you, Madam Chair. It is also my honor 

to introduce our second witness, Mr. Bill Ingersoll. He was raised 

in Sloansville in Schoharie County, which I just had a town hall 

in this weekend. He grew up racing motocross. As the son of a single mother, money was always tight. This led Bill and his grandfather and business partner to begin buying and selling ATVs and 

ATV parts to supplement the cost of racing. In 2008, Bill tragically 

suffered a severe spinal cord injury which confined him to a wheelchair. The accident marked a turning point in his life, catalyzing 

his eBay career and leading him to start an ecommerce business. 

Since 2010, Bill has been using his passion for motocross to sell 

ATV parts in his eBay store, Bikes, Trikes, and Quads. I look forward to hearing from Bill today. We had a greater conversation 

earlier in my office and he has a lot of wonderful insights as to 

what it means to be a business owner in a rural community like 

Schoharie and how critically important it is for us to focus on digital needs, particularly rural broadband. So thank you. I appreciate 

the time. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Delgado. 

Now, I recognize Ms. Finkenauer from Iowa to introduce our next 

witness. 

Ms. FINKENAUER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

I am very excited to have an Iowan here today and introduce Ms. 

Stout. Ms. Stout makes paper flowers from her home in State Center, Iowa. She started her Etsy shop back in 2010 and began gaining traction a few years later after her son was born. Living with 

fibromyalgia, her creative business allows her to do her work on 

her own schedule, which has benefitted her family greatly. Ms. 

Stout sells through multiple platforms, as well as through her own 

website. She manages every part of her shop, and her husband 

helps out occasionally. She has many international sales and hopes 

to be able to hire an employee soon to give back to her community. 

We are very happy to have you here and really look forward to 

your testimony today. Thank you, Ms. Stout. 

And I yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Now I would like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Today’s final witness is Mr. Jake Ward, president of the Connected Commerce Council, or 3C, a membership organization for 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

5 

small businesses powered by digital. 3C works to provide small 

businesses with access to the market’s most effective digital tools 

available, provides coaching to optimize growth and efficiency, and 

works to cultivate a policy environment that considers and respects 

the interests of small business. Jake is the cofounder and former 

CEO of Application Developers Alliance and Forward Strategies. 

We thank you for joining us here today and look forward to your 

testimony. 

And I yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chabot. 

Mr. Connors, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENTS OF DANA F. CONNORS, PRESIDENT & CEO, 

MAINE STATE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE; BILL INGERSOLL, 

OWNER, BIKES, TRIKES, AND QUADS; AFTON STOUT, OWNER, 

MY DINOSAUR DREAMS; JAKE WARD, PRESIDENT, CONNECTED COMMERCE COUNCIL 

STATEMENT OF DANA F. CONNORS 

Mr. CONNORS. Thank you. Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, Ranking 

Member Chabot, and distinguished members of the Small Business 

Committee. 

My name is Dana Connors. I am president of the Maine State 

Chamber of Commerce, and I thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to appear before you today and for the privilege of doing 

so. This is an extremely important issue for the state of Maine, 

which is my perspective to this report, because it does show what 

we anecdotally have become aware of but puts proof behind the actual issue. And we are grateful for that opportunity. 

And while I am at it, I want to be sure to express my appreciation to the Chamber, to NDP Analytics, as well as Amazon and the 

team that came together to put this report before you and to show 

the importance, the impact, and frankly, the necessity that it creates for states like Maine that is predominantly rural and small 

business. So I thank them for that. 

My job is as the good congressman from Maine, which we miss 

in Maine and we are grateful that you are representing us in 

Washington, we do miss you in our state capital, you, too, are a 

class act, may I say. We, as you said, work hard to promote a positive business environment in Maine, and in doing that we represent a network of over 5,000 businesses of all sizes, representing 

all sectors, and from all regions of the state. We advocate on their 

behalf and we try to provide those types of programs and partnerships that allow them to do what they do best, which is to run their 

business and be successful at it. 

You probably are aware somewhat of Maine because many of you 

perhaps have vacationed there because we have 38 million to 40 

million a year that come to our beautiful state, and that is probably 

the reason our license plates bear the name ‘‘ Vacationland.’’ But 

I want you also to know that we are rich in history. We have vibrant communities and we are unparalleled in work ethic. And 

when people ask me about Maine and describe in one word I say 

it is quality. Quality of our people, our place, as well as our prodSBR002 with DISTILLER

6 

ucts. Our state is a fabulous place to vacation. It is also a fabulous 

place to live and work. 

You also need to know that our population is about 1,350,000 

spread over 33,000 squares miles. And by the way, that is the size 

of the rest of New England. You also need to know that our population, 60 percent lives in the rural areas. That makes us the most 

rural state in the country. But when you look at the size of our 

business, you also need to take into account that the Federal level 

describes small business as under 500. Seventy-five percent of our 

businesses are under 10. And when you consider we have 35,000 

businesses, only 64 exceed that 500. So we are the subject in so 

many ways of this report. And that is why this report is so important to us because it opens the door to opportunity, it provides a 

direction, and it creates a necessity for us to move on it. 

I would like to share with you that we have made progress. We 

are rural, we are small, but this state has been, as you have implied in your opening comments, moving in this direction. There is 

a lot left to do but we are moving in the right direction. 

I want to give you a couple examples to bear this out. The first 

is a woman who left New York City to come to Maine. She did not 

go to Portland where most of our population is. It has a great reputation as a foodie city. She chose our least populated county in the 

state, Washington County. When she came there about 10 to 14 

years ago, there was no high-speed broadband internet connection. 

But she made it her priority to do just that. And today, because 

of that commitment in that rural, most rural part of our state, I 

will give you two examples to bear out. Cranberry Isle is a group 

of islands. There are 141 people that live there. It is also now the 

residence of a renowned artist who came there for vacation but 

loved it like so many people do and wanted to move there. This 

high-speed internet connection now provides him to sell his art 

throughout the world and to live and work on Cranberry Isle. 

There is another astrophysicist who lives on Roque Bluffs, another very small community, probably 250 at max. This aero physicist works with NASA, has connections to the University of Phoenix, established it as vacation, but he, too, is there. 

I can see I am running out of time and I barely got started. I 

am hopeful that during the questions that it will bear out how important this is, and the report builds the case that in Maine it very 

certainly applies. And I hope the questions will give me the opportunity to expand as I would like to do. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Ingersoll, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF BILL INGERSOLL 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, Ranking Member 

Chabot, members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me to 

participate in this important hearing on how digital tools improve 

rural entrepreneurship. 

My name is Bill Ingersoll. I own Bikes, Trikes, and Quads, a 

small business I started in rural Sloansville, New York. We sell 

motocross and ATV equipment on eBay to customers around the 

U.S. and increasingly around the world. I appreciate the opportunity to share my experience son some of the tools that make runSBR002 with DISTILLER

7 

ning my eBay business possible in rural America, including rural 

broadband access, universal and reliable Postal Service, and breaking down barriers through global trade. 

I grew up racing motocross in upstate New York. My entire life 

changed when I was injured in a motocross crash and left paralyzed in 2008. After the accident, I could no longer work construction or do many of the other things I had done previously, but I 

was determined to move forward with my life. My grandfather and 

I had always fixed up old ATVs as a hobby, so I was looking for 

a way to turn that hobby into a business. Not long after, I was trying to find some parts to modify an ATV we had so that I could 

get around our property more easily. I ended up tracking them 

down on eBay. The process was so easy and convenient for me as 

a buyer that I began to look into selling parts on eBay. We already 

had a large stock of parts from ATVs and dirt bikes from years of 

racing so we decided to give it a try. We opened our eBay store in 

2010 and have been selling since. I now have three employees and 

run my business out of a warehouse on my property. 

I often look back today, 10 years later, and wonder what life 

might look like now without eBay and I really do not know. Being 

23 years old with minimal education in a poor rural area never fostered good odds for an able-bodied person, let alone someone who 

was now disabled. EBay and being able to run a business online 

has given me a life that I may have not otherwise enjoyed. 

Living in rural upstate New York, I would not be able to use 

eBay if I did not have access to high-speed internet and affordable 

broadband. Unfortunately, broadband reliance and even phone 

connectivity continue to be constant issues for our company. Rural 

broadband is essential to ensuring that rural small business owners and entrepreneurs can take advantage of the latest technologies 

and reach customers around the world no matter where they live 

in our country. 

There used to be a few ATV dealers in my area who sold locally 

but were not online. Unfortunately, none of them are in business 

anymore. We need real investment in improving and expanding our 

rural communications infrastructure so that businesses like mine 

can take advantage of innovative tools and marketplaces like eBay. 

Even though my store is online, I still have to actually ship products to customers around the country and around the globe. I rely 

heavily on the U.S. Postal Service to reach my customers. Over 80 

percent of our shipments go through USPS. I understand there are 

proposals that would make my package delivery to rural parts of 

the country like my hometown nonessential. I cannot imagine how 

anyone could consider small businesses like mine not essential by 

cutting access to Postal Services or raising prices for rural package 

delivery would be disastrous for rural small businesses. Most people do not know that private shippers charge surcharges to deliver 

to rural areas. If I had to rely only on private shippers or if package services went up dramatically, my costs would go through the 

roof. Like broadband, the U.S. Postal Service is essential for all 

Americans no matter where they live, and without it, rural small 

businesses will have a harder time competing with giant 

ecommerce companies that have their own warehouses and logisSBR002 with DISTILLER

8 

tics networks. Small ecommerce businesses depend on reliable, affordable, and universal Postal Service. 

On top of selling to our customers in the U.S., selling globally 

has been key to our success. We have shipped thousands of orders 

globally to some countries where ATVs are their prime mode of 

transportation. Selling worldwide allowed us to reach customers 

and realize new opportunities that we would have otherwise not 

considered. These opportunities are a direct result of conducting 

business online and never would have existed before the internet. 

Small online businesses like mine across the U.S. in rural and 

urban areas need trade policies that cut red tape for low value 

shipments by supporting higher de minimis thresholds throughout 

the world. That way, small businesses like mine can truly take advantage of one of the best things the internet has to offer, hundreds of millions of buyers all over the world. 

On behalf of rural businesses across the country, thank you 

again for holding this important hearing. I look forward to your 

questions. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Ingersoll. 

And now, Ms. Stout, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF AFTON STOUT 

Ms. STOUT. Good morning. My name is Afton Stout and I am 

a creative entrepreneur from rural Iowa. Before I begin, I want to 

thank everybody who has been a part of me being here today, my 

mom and my brother, and of course, my husband, Brian, and my 

3-year-old son, Rhys. I also want to send a thank you to my dad, 

who passed away in 2006 because I know he would be super proud 

of me for being here today. Thank you, Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, 

and Ranking Member Chabot, and members of the Committee for 

inviting me to speak with you today about my creative business. 

I was born and raised in eastern Montana, in an even more isolated area than I live in now. My dad was diagnosed with systemic 

lupus the year that I was born, and I believe that my family’s 

struggles with poverty have been a huge part of who I am today. 

Growing up with limited means instilled a sense of restraint when 

it comes to money and spending it wisely. 

I have always been motivated by creating and selling, starting 

out in small craft shows in my hometown of Glendive, Montana. I 

can remember buying items from Etsy when I got my first bank 

card, which was pretty exciting. I had always planned to start a 

shop, despite being both intimidated and inspired by the success of 

others. I assumed that living in a small town would be a hardship 

for my creative ventures that I would have to struggle to overcome. 

However, I am certainly not alone in that space, as 27 percent of 

Etsy sellers are from rural areas like mine. After graduating from 

the local college, I worked two jobs and crafted on the side, selling 

through local online groups to keep my mother and me afloat after 

my Dad’s life insurance ran out. 

In 2013, my Mom remarried and I was able to kind of rethink 

my life and decide what I wanted to do. My stepdad was a huge 

help in getting me settled in Iowa, which I am super grateful for. 

That same year, I met my husband and went on to marry him in 

2014. And for our wedding I handmade all of the flowers from 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

9 

paper, which was kind of the spark that sent me on to my entrepreneurial journey. For the first year of our marriage, I made a few 

pieces of jewelry, some of which I did list on Etsy, and after my 

son was born in 2015, I decided that I would stay home with him 

and see if I could find a few more people who were interested in 

handmade flowers for their weddings or events. And from there, 

things just kind of took off. 

Thanks to the internet, I am one of 2.1 million sellers on Etsy, 

many of whom like me are able to run our creative businesses from 

home, despite living in a rural area. This has improved my quality 

of life immensely. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 2012, an 

illness that I have been fighting since middle school, which ultimately led to me dropping out of high school. I did not allow it to 

hold me back. I took my GED a few months later and went to a 

local college to get my associate’s degree, and like many creative 

entrepreneurs, I did not set out to become a full-time microbusiness 

owner, but I am very, very happy that I am able to do this. 

When I first started out, I started advertising on Facebook and 

listed custom-order handmade flowers on Etsy. My first year I had 

about $37,000 in sales, which I thought was absolutely amazing. At 

the end of 2016, I started working with wooden flowers and the 

business just kind of exploded from there. After posting some of 

those on Etsy, my sales nearly tripled. 

Starting out, most of my sales were online with roughly 10 percent being local, in-person sales. Since then I have had customers 

from all over the world, including France and Germany. With a 

platform like Etsy, I am able to ship beautiful flowers made in 

Iowa to international buyers that truly value my work. 

Today, the bulk of my business is wedding related. I custom dye 

and arrange wooden flowers to match wedding themes and other 

events. I am able to work with very, very many lovely people that 

I would never know or even reach without the internet or online 

platforms like Etsy. I am making a push for a bigger local presence, and even Etsy helps with that by showing search results with 

local businesses closer to the top of the search. I work 12-hour days 

during wedding season, but I love what I do and I get to work with 

people who are absolutely amazing. 

I am proud to say that I am projected to be 80 percent above 

where I was last year in views and sales, and I may have to hire 

my husband to help me run things once my 3-year-old starts preschool this fall. In 2016, my husband started staying home full 

time with our toddler so that I could work full time on my creative 

business. He has trauma-induced arthritis in both of his feet from 

an injury back in 2010, so being able to stay home has helped him 

out incredibly and vastly improved the quality of life of all of us. 

Like 97 percent of Etsy sellers, I run my shop from my home. In 

fact, we just finished building a studio onto our house to increase 

productivity. 

My creative business allows me to pursue my creative passions 

in the comfort of my home, surrounded by my family. And while 

my story is unique, this pathway to rural entrepreneurship is not. 

There are over 2.1 million Etsy sellers across the globe, and together, we sold $3.9 billion goods in 2018. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

10 

And I am about to run out of time, so I would appreciate any 

questions to follow up at the end of this. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. Stout. 

And now, Mr. Ward, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF JAKE WARD 

Mr. WARD. Good morning. 

Madam Chairwoman, Ranking Member Chabot, on behalf of 

digitally-empowered small businesses across the country, thank 

you for holding this important hearing. 

I am coincidentally also a Maine native, and I want to commend 

you for pulling together, though inadvertently, the most Maine-centric panel in the history of Congress. It is not often that small-town 

America gets a seat at the table, let alone two of them. I am grateful for the opportunity. 

My hometown of Greenville, Maine, is small. It is fewer than 

1,500 residents small. It is everybody knows everybody else small. 

There are no chain stores or big companies. In my hometown, every 

business is a small business. And those businesses are the foundation of the town, the community, and the local economy. That is the 

rule in rural America, not the exception. 

It is true that much has changed in rural America. Small businesses are as important today as they have ever been. The digital 

age has brought its share of challenges, but also created many opportunities. Digital resources empower local businesses to rise 

above and grow beyond their geographic limitations and find customers around the world, where before the next county would have 

seemed a world away. 

I am here today to offer the support and help of the Connected 

Commerce Council as this Committee works to unlock the potential 

of America’s small businesses. As the son of a small business owner 

in a rural total in a rural state, it is my hope that 3C can provide 

resources, education, and access that helps rural small businesses 

realize their potential. It is also my intention to work with policymakers anywhere, including and especially members of this Committee to accomplish our shared goal. 

As we have already heard from this panel today, the challenge 

of every small business is unique but their stories are universal. 

Unleashing the potential of rural America requires small businesses have access to four things—capital, affordable broadband 

services, talent, and finally access to affordable, secure, and scalable digital tools. It also requires that we understand that the digital economy is a different type of interconnected and interdependent economy where the investment of global platforms have 

direct, tangible local benefits that can be measured in new employees and increased financial security. 

In Congress and in many state capitals, debates on data privacy, 

cybersecurity, and competition policy are underway that will dramatically affect small businesses’ ability to succeed or even survive. 

If our data privacy laws focus only on consumer protection and tech 

giants, they will fail to recognize and preserve the importance of 

data and analytics that enable small businesses to compete with 

larger, urban-based companies on quality and price, rather than 

proximity and size. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

11 

Cybersecurity policy that focuses on only the biggest breaches 

and the gravest risks will leave small businesses in the crosshairs 

of ransomware predators and hackers. 

Competition regulators who focus only on company size will miss 

the benefits that digital platforms and marketplaces provide to 3C 

members and digitally-empowered small business nationwide. 

Frankly, I am concerned we may lose the forest through the trees 

and focus too much on the largest, most prominent companies to 

the detriment of small businesses that will ultimately pay the price 

if business models are dramatically changed, costly regulation is 

enacted, or access to essential tools is limited. 

The reality of the digital economy for 3C members and nearly 30 

million small businesses like them is that they stand on the shoulders of large companies to reach otherwise unobtainable heights. 

Too often opportunity driven by innovation is assumed rather than 

promoted and protected. Too often we talk about small businesses 

rather than with small businesses. I know under the leadership of 

this Committee that will change. 

If the Committee wishes to unless the potential of American 

small businesses, you must make sure that this Congress and state 

legislators do not limit access to the tools they need. We must take 

great care to ensure that policies focused on the largest companies 

do not inadvertently undermine small businesses’ opportunities. 

Your contribution to unleashing the potential of all small businesses, including those in rural America, can be your vigilant defense of small businesses’ access to the technology they need to succeed. 

Thank you, again, for your attention to this important subject 

and for security a seat at the table for America’s small businesses. 

I look forward to your questions. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Ward, and all the 

members, all the witnesses for sharing your stories and showing us 

the challenges and the great potential that exists in promoting economic opportunities in rural America. And that is our responsibility. So I am very grateful for your testimony. 

Mr. Connors, can you elaborate on the economic cost to rural 

communities of not having high-quality, reliable broadband? 

Mr. CONNORS. Certainly, Madam Chair. I would not express 

that in terms of dollars—— 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Is your mic on? 

Mr. CONNORS. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would be pleased to 

give that a response, not so much on the specificity of the actual 

numbers of dollars. I mean, the report bears out very effectively 

that with adequate access, $84 billion, 360,000 new jobs is pretty 

significant, which represents a 20 percent increase in business, 

that would certainly apply to us. We have found that in our state 

advancements have been made but there still remain 83,000 that 

do not have access. And that is based upon the FCC standard of 

25/3, at which there may be even more. And I think what we are 

finding is that in our state, the opportunities to address the two 

most important issues in our state, and this is borne out by a report, an initiative that was based upon a collaborative between 

three organizations, one of which was a research organization, that 

8 years ago we came together and have continued that initiative. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

12 

But 8 years ago when the business community was surveyed and 

a poll was taken, the response was—and the whole initiative called 

Making Maine Work was to actually provide for the administration 

the priorities. At that time we were in a recession, so you can 

imagine it was all about tax incentive, those types of issues. Today, 

the issues that are most important that will serve our state and 

particularly the rural community is workforce, skill and education, 

and broadband. They are our top two issues. The business community has adopted and so has—— 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Connors, I would like to hear 

also from Ms. Stout and Mr. Ingersoll. 

Mr. CONNORS. Yep. I am sorry. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. But we will have a second round. 

Mr. CONNORS. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. And I just want to discuss the workforce IT skills. 

Ms. Stout and Mr. Ingersoll, can you speak to how broadband 

limitations in rural communities have either stifled your ability or 

your community’s ability to grow and adapt to digital commerce? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Even though that we have access in my area 

to high-speed internet, the speeds are never accurate. They claim 

a 7 megabyte service. We will average 4 to 5 megabytes. But the 

other side to that is there are periods where I am getting 1 megabyte and it is very difficult for my business to operate like that. To 

call and set up a service call or something to that degree, to get 

a repair person out, they will give me a 2 week wait time to get 

the internet looked at. And during that period I have to do things 

like, you know, I can tether off of my cellphone occasionally. Cell 

service has improved in my area to the point where that is viable 

but I am already paying for a service that is not performing and 

it has got a direct cost to my business. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Ms. Stout? 

Ms. STOUT. Pretty much the same things that he touched on are 

what I deal with also. We do not have a very reliable service, and 

we do not have very many options where I live. So you just kind 

of pick the best one that you can get and go off of it. I end up using 

my cellphone also to maintain my business contacts because I have 

to answer messages pretty frequently because I work with brides 

who worry a lot, so I always need to be in contact with people. And 

that is my main concern. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Mr. Ingersoll and Ms. Stout, have you had any type of interaction with any of the programs of the Small Business Administration, whether helping you put together a business plan or helping 

you access lending? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. I have had no contact. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes, Ms. Stout? 

Ms. STOUT. I also have had no contact with them either. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay, thanks. 

And Ms. Stout, as an entrepreneur—well, my time is almost up 

so I will now recognize Mr. Balderson, Ranking Member of the 

Subcommittee on Innovation and Workforce Development, for 5 

minutes. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

13 

Mr. BALDERSON. Thank you, Madam Chair. But as the Chairwoman, you can keep on going if you want to, so please do not let 

me take that away from you. 

Thank you, panel, for being here. 

Mr. Ingersoll, this will probably be the first time this has ever 

happened. I am sorry what happened to you. I raced motocross. 

Just got done with the GNCC series. Then I decided to run for Congress so my motorcycling racing days, both KTMs 450 and 200 

have been sold and gone. But like you, the Madam Chair talked 

about one of the questions I had for you. 

Do you remember flex bars? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Mm-hmm. 

Mr. BALDERSON. I was the first guy in the country to start 

selling those online and going all over and that was back in 2005- 

2006 range. And I had a really challenging time. I live in Appalachia, which is in rural Ohio is where I am actually from. But I 

was going to ask you, you know, you had no hard time getting access to broadband of any sort, or Ms. Stout? Because I am shocked 

by that. 

Mr. INGERSOLL. At the time of my injury was the first time 

that we had access to broadband internet. That was 2008. You 

know, it has improved over time to where it is more function now, 

but I would say from 2008 until about 2015, it was very difficult. 

It had a direct impact to my business because there were days 

where we could not process orders because the internet was down 

and I had not found workarounds for that. 

Mr. BALDERSON. Okay. And you talked in your opening statement about your United States Postal Service. And I totally agree 

with you. Folks do not know about the private carriers and what 

we had to do with that, and I am sure most of you do but I attest 

to that also. They were very important to me. 

Ms. Stout, this question is for you. I mean, you had no inconsistency or lack of broadband when you first started out, or any issues 

at all? 

Ms. STOUT. I do not really remember having a lot of issues getting internet. It is mostly the reliability that is an issue. Like I 

said, ours cuts out quite frequently, kind of on a schedule almost. 

Like they almost plan it. So I kind of work around that with my 

cellphone. But yeah, it was pretty easy to get it. I am fairly new 

though so, I mean, 2015-ish, so. 

Mr. BALDERSON. Okay. Madam Chair, I yield back the rest of 

my time. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back. 

And now we recognize the gentlelady from Iowa, Ms. Finkenauer, 

Chairwoman of the Subcommittee on Rural Development, Agricultural Trade, and Entrepreneurship. 

Ms. FINKENAUER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

And this question is for Ms. Stout. Again, thank you so much for 

being here today. Really happy to have you. And my short time in 

Congress so far, just the last couple of months, this Committee and 

myself have really been focused on reducing barriers for entrepreneurs and looking at ways to ensure that we have an environment where small businesses, especially in rural areas, can create 

good paying jobs and also take care of their families. One of the 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

14 

things I want to do is plan a listening session within the district 

and talk to young folks all across the district, figuring out ways 

that we can get, again, more entrepreneurs. Make sure we are cutting down on those barriers so that they are able to have what they 

need to start and create good paying jobs so that we can keep 

Iowans in Iowa and also bring some back home, which is incredibly 

important to me as well. 

One of the things though that I have already started to hear 

when it comes to barriers for a young person to even start a business and want to become an entrepreneur has to do with some 

things like paid family leave and those issues where it is incredibly 

important right now. You know, I know there are a lot of ideas out 

there, and I will not take this Committee to debate those, but I will 

say from my understanding they are incredibly important from 

folks in Iowa and across the country, and we need to make sure 

that our entrepreneurs are able to have leave policies to be able to, 

again, start their business, but also take care of their family. 

And one of the things I also wanted to touch on, too, I understand there are other barriers we look at with the emergence of the 

digital economy that, you know, pros and cons that go along with 

it with our cities and towns, also other things, you know, health 

care, retirement benefits, student loans, and broadband, for example, that folks are dealing with. What are some of the barriers very 

specifically for you, Afton, to becoming an entrepreneur and then 

what would you like to see happen to encourage more young people 

to get involved and also be able to take that next step to be an entrepreneur themselves? 

Ms. STOUT. Okay. That is a good question. A long question and 

a lot of answers. 

I would say first off my biggest issue so far has been health care, 

which is very important for both my husband and I, because we 

both have health issues. Luckily, we were on government assistance previously before business started doing so well. My husband 

was a barista and I was a pharmacy technician and I quit to stay 

home with my son. But looking at the healthcare marketplace was 

very overwhelming. I know there is a lot of work that needs to be 

done with that. It was not very realistic the quotes that I was getting for what I would need to pay out of pocket to get insurance 

for my family. I did look into other options outside of the marketplace then because it just was far too expensive. 

Another issue that has come up has been taxes to different jurisdictions in different areas where now I know that Etsy collects 

state sales tax for Iowa, so I do not have to worry about that, 

which is very helpful. If we were to have to collect, I know there 

are some bills that may require after a certain threshold that they 

collect, we collect sales tax for those outside states that we ship to. 

I think it is $100,000 or so. But if we had to do that, that would 

make it very, very hard for us to keep track of as a small business 

since I do all of my own paperwork and everything. Next year I am 

actually paying somebody to do my taxes for the first time. So exciting. But yeah, I do all my own paperwork otherwise. So if I had 

to keep track of taxes, otherwise I would definitely have to hire 

somebody else, which is also another set of paperwork and everything. So those are the two main things. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

15 

Things that would help, of course, are the internet issue, making 

sure that we have reliable internet. Health care. Making sure that 

health care is more affordable. And paid leave. Luckily, I am in a 

very lucky situation where my husband has gotten to stay home 

and take care of my son because otherwise, I could not do what I 

was doing or what I am doing. So those things are very important 

to me, and I am sure to others. Thank you. 

Ms. FINKENAUER. Well, I look forward to working on them. 

And I look forward to having this conversation continuing. But I 

know my time is about to expire and again, thank you so much, 

all of you, for being here today, truly. 

And with that, I yield back, Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back. 

And now we recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I want to apologize for having to leave. We are marking up the VAWA, the Violence Against Women Act in Judiciary and I had an amendment 

that was being called up so I had to go over and take care of that. 

So I apologize. 

Mr. Ward, let me start with you if I can. You mentioned the importance of cybersecurity for small firs, at least in your written testimony. I assume you probably talked about it in your oral testimony as well. And I really could not agree more. Would a nationwide network of counselors that are trained in cybersecurity measures help small firms prepare for cyberattacks? And additionally, 

would it be beneficial to offer some sort of safe harbor to small 

firms that have been victimized by a cyberattack so they are free 

to share that information with the Federal Government to help 

strengthen the Nation’s entire cybersecurity network? 

Mr. WARD. The short answer, sir, is yes, but this being Congress 

I will give you the longer one. 

The cyberattacks for small businesses are extinction-level events. 

They will put companies out of business. The burden of reporting 

is complex. Often, too complex for very small businesses, for microbusinesses as it currently stands. I think a national network is a 

really good idea. I think that safe harbor is an essential idea. I 

want to congratulate you and Madam Chairwoman for the introduction of 1648 and 1649, two bills that are bipartisan in this environment is remarkable, but also, they really go to the heart of the 

issue. They are simple solutions to an otherwise complex burden. 

3C is fully behind both of those. In fact, we would be more than 

happy to be part of the solution for 1649 and the network of training that you have proposed. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. Well, in the spirit of bipartisanship, 

the Chairwoman and I heard testimony about you just mentioned 

it can be an existential event to a small business if they have a 

cyberattack. Many literally go out of business as a result of that. 

They go under. And so this legislation should really help. And it 

is H.R. 1648 and H.R. 1649 as you mentioned, and Ms. Vela ́zquez 

and I introduced it together. So hopefully, we are going to make 

progress on that in a bipartisan manner and maybe actually be 

able to help the small business community tremendously. 

Mr. WARD. Wonderful. We would love to help. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

16 

Mr. WARD. Thank you. 

Mr. CHABOT. Mr. Ingersoll, I will go to you next if I could. 

Could you tell us about how your business kind of grew over 

time? Was it to areas in New York, for example, and then maybe 

across the country and then followed by, I guess, exporting around 

the globe, I guess through eBay? Or did it more or less all come 

at once? Or how did it unfold in your particular instance? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Initially, I mean, being online you are going 

to get a variety of customers to begin with. Certain areas of the 

southwest, you know, and the southeast, they are the primary 

areas that our sales come in from. The traffic that eBay brings to 

my business and the visibility worldwide, it allows me a lot of opportunities in these different markets that if I was stuck to just my 

state or my county or my town, those opportunities would not be 

there. So I was able to grow my business completely off of the volume of sales I was getting from eBay. 

Mr. CHABOT. Very good. Thank you. 

Ms. Stout, you mentioned that the minute you got on Etsy your 

whole world changed. So what is next? Small businesses are always 

at the forefront of what is next because they have to be in order 

to compete with the larger companies that you compete all the time 

with. Are there new technologies out there that you see on the horizon or that you are already anticipating that will allow you to 

continue to grow your business in the future? 

Ms. STOUT. Honestly, I am at a point in my business where I 

do not want to grow any bigger. 

Mr. CHABOT. Okay. 

Ms. STOUT. Because I would have to hire help, and I do not— 

I am happy being able to support my family and give back to my 

community where I am at. 

As far as new technology, I am not really sure. I have been sticking with Etsy and Facebook pretty much and they have helped me 

out a lot. They reach a very, very large audience of people. 

Mr. CHABOT. If it ain’t broke, do not fix it; right? 

Ms. STOUT. Right? Yeah. So I am happy where I am. 

Mr. CHABOT. Excellent. 

Ms. STOUT. So I have not really looked. 

Mr. CHABOT. I am glad to see somebody happy where they are 

at. 

Ms. STOUT. Yeah, thank you. 

Mr. CHABOT. Okay. And finally, Mr. Connors, it is tough to get 

more rural than some parts of northern Maine. And I have a twopart question. I will try to get it real quick because my time has 

almost run out. 

Do you happen to know the percentage of northern Mainers that 

have access to high-speed internet and those that do not? And secondly, with the advent of 5G technology and the way it is transferring the way we all communicate, do you happen to know what 

percentage of Maine has access to the 5G or 4 or 3 for that matter? 

Mr. CONNORS. I am from northern Maine originally where I 

was a city manager for years. I mentioned earlier in my response 

that there are 83,000 individuals that do not have access to 

broadband, and those are in the rural area predominantly of our 

state. And when you go north, there are pockets. That is the irony 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

17 

of this issue. Within that 83,000 without access, you will find that 

in certain places where you least expect it, there is adequate service for that character of whether it is the business or the individual. But I would say a large percentage would be in my part of 

the state where I came from. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much. 

My time has expired, Madam Chair. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes, the gentleman’s time has expired. 

And now we recognize Mr. Golden from Maine, Chairman of the 

Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastructure. 

Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

You know, Mr. Connors, I am sure that you have members back 

home in Maine who run businesses very similar to Mr. Ingersoll 

and Ms. Stout. 

Mr. CONNORS. Yes. 

Mr. GOLDEN. I see you nodding your head as they talk about 

some of the opportunities and challenges that they face working 

what they do. 

You were commissioner of the Department of Maine Transportation for a number of years. And through my time in politics I 

have traveled around and talked to businesses. I think we both 

agree normally I hear their top concerns in Maine, infrastructure, 

workforce, high energy costs, and then regulation falls into the mix. 

Just thinking about the way that we fund our roads and bridges, 

which I know you are very familiar with, I mean, we have got Federal highway, state highway fund. We do some municipal stuff. 

Throw that into the mix. Some bonding in Maine as you know. 

Would you agree that broadband, or even access to faster internet 

in a lot of rural areas of Maine has essentially become the economic highway of the 21st century? 

Mr. CONNORS. Absolutely. 

Mr. GOLDEN. Just as critical? 

Mr. CONNORS. Yeah, I mean, thank you for that opening because I was commissioner for 11 years and I used to go around the 

state preaching the gospel that highways and bridges and transportation are the foundation of our economic system. And the following 

comment would be, it costs a lot to build and maintain but it costs 

a lot more not to. And you know what? The very parallel between 

transportation and this issue is striking because frankly, it has 

many of the same features, both in terms of its impact, but it also 

has many of the similar features in terms of how we resolve it. 

Those 83,000 that do not have access, that answer is going to come 

about when we share responsibilities, like when the Electrifying 

America took place we were all at the table. When we are looking 

at this issue, we need to be all at the table. And priorities will be 

given to usage and those types of things, but I think your point is 

spot on that I would say that in my opinion, while infrastructure 

overall is extremely important to our state as well as any state, 

broadband, high-speed internet connection is the key to our future. 

It is borne out in this report. To me it is parallel with transportation and does not deserve any other priority than a top priority. 

Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you very much. Knowing how important it 

is to our economy and all the members of the Maine State ChamSBR002 with DISTILLER

18 

ber of Commerce, I am sure if you had the capital, if your members 

could afford to build that infrastructure themselves they would do 

it; correct? 

Mr. CONNORS. Absolutely. And I think that is a point to be 

made, is that our providers have done well. Bearing in mind the 

characteristics of our state, how rural we are, how small business 

we are and that type of thing, that they want to do it but the return on investment is simply not there. And that is why we need 

that partnership to develop it. When we do and when we deal with 

the digital literacy, because not everyone is aware of the incredible 

potential that exists, the value that it brings. It has expanded fast 

and that is good, but there is more to do. And I think the answer 

lies in all of us coming together. And as you know, our governor 

has teed this up with an expectation of major bond issues this year 

and the next several years. 

Mr. GOLDEN. And so as the state of Maine looks to put a little 

bit of skin in the game—— 

Mr. CONNORS. Absolutely. 

Mr. GOLDEN.—and taxpayers show us that they are willing to 

make those investments in infrastructure, some Federal help would 

be important? 

Mr. CONNORS. Yes, it would. And I think that is the relationship that we need to fix this issue. 

Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you. 

Mr. CONNORS. To address the issue. 

Mr. GOLDEN. I appreciate that very much. 

Just shifting gears very quickly with the last minute I have left, 

since Mr. Ward is from Maine, I have to ask you a question as well. 

You touched on this a little bit. As Congress is looking into privacy matters pertaining to the digital world and some of the people 

that you work with, your business included, and this includes in 

state legislatures. I am sure that you probably are advocating on 

these issues around the country. As we look into privacy regulation, would you support small business exemptions? And if so, 

where is the trigger? At what size does a company grow so large 

that we have to have some regulation to make sure that consumers 

are being protected in terms of their privacy in data and information? 

Mr. WARD. Thank you, Congressman. 

We are talking about data privacy. 3C generally opposes carve 

out exemptions of any kind because frankly this is very important. 

It is important that we get this right. Data has been in the news 

a lot over the last several years, obviously. But if you are able to 

put a small business exemption or carve out into a piece of legislation, you are doing it because you believe the burden is too high. 

That the compliance burden is too high. And you are saying that 

the size of the company or the size of their user base matters more 

than the privacy of a smaller number of people, which frankly betrays the motives of the regulation in the first place. 

As a former Capitol Hill staffer and somebody who has been 

doing this for a little while, my advice to both Congress and to the 

state legislators would be to write a better bill. Do the job. Write 

legislation and regulation that applies to everybody. That raises 

the standard and the practice for companies large and small but 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

19 

has a compliance burden and a requirement of administration low 

enough that a two-person shop could do it. If we can do that with 

our own taxes, we can do it with data privacy. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

And now I recognize the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Hern, 

Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, 

and Capital Access for 5 minutes. 

Mr. HERN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you all today and ask 

you questions, and thank you all so much for being here. Especially 

thank you, Mr. Ingersoll, for your story, for what you have done, 

how you have been successful, and truly you realized the American 

dream. It is different for all of us, I think you would agree. 

As a business owner and job creator for over 34 years, I know 

firsthand how difficult it is to quantify broadband access into our 

rural communities and how valuable this access can be to our small 

business. Again, as a lifelong small business person, my goal is always try to keep government out of my way so I can do the things 

that, you know, truly compete with one another. 

I only have one question, and I would like to ask each of you the 

same question. So obviously the person who goes last can get a real 

opportunity here. But when it comes to broadband, all of us on this 

Committee are probably getting asked whether this should be a 

government-driven project or a private industry-driven project. 

Could you give me your thoughts on that? 

We will start with you, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. CONNORS. In our state it has been privately driven. We are 

at the point today where government at the state level has recognized its value and the need to participate. And we would look forward to having the Federal Government be a part of that answer. 

I think it involves all of us. But to date, let me be clear, it has been 

privately d riven almost entirely. 

Mr. HERN. Okay. Mr. Ingersoll? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Where I am from, you know, it is private, but 

I believe they are controlled monopolies. So the telecommunications 

company that I deal with has really no incentive to send someone 

to rural areas when they are having issues with higher population 

centers. I see the internet as a public utility, so whatever is going 

to provide the best service to the people, I am all for it. I really 

do not have an opinion one way or the other aside from that. 

Mr. HERN. My assumption is being an entrepreneur yourself 

that you would like to see two people compete in the area for the 

same business of some sort? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Yeah. For sure. 

Mr. HERN. To drive down cost and to drive up access? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. More than anything, improve the quality of 

service. 

Mr. HERN. Sure. 

Ms. Stout? 

Ms. STOUT. Very similar to Mr. Ingersoll. I have a couple of options for internet in my town and it is public driven. I think the 

government could help. But yeah, definitely having more competition would help and increasing the reliability, for sure working on 

that, making sure there are certain standards and they have to 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

20 

stick with what they say they are giving you would help. Thank 

you. 

Mr. HERN. You are welcome. 

Mr. Ward? 

Mr. WARD. I guess I have the advantage because I get to go 

last? 

Mr. HERN. Sure. 

Mr. WARD. I think that a public-private partnership is really the 

only solution when you are talking about both controlled monopolies and natural monopolies. The technological feasibility of the last 

mile is hard enough. It is even worse when it has to go through 

20 miles of forest to get to two people. You cannot make that math 

work in an open market purely. There has to be a partnership. 

Mr. HERN. Very good. 

Well, I thank each of you for this. I have listened to all your testimony obviously since I have been here. Again, I apologize, like 

the Chairman, there are so many Committee hearings going on 

today. But thank you all so much, and it is great to see, especially 

what you did from figuring out a way to be successful, and that is 

an awesome story. And there is nothing greater in this country 

than to have the opportunity to start a job. I would challenge you 

to hire somebody though because the world changes when you have 

employees. 

Thank you so much. I yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back, and now 

we recognize Mr. Delgado from New York for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DELGADO. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Mr. Ingersoll, thank you for taking the time from your business 

in Sloansville to testify here today. It is great to hear all that you 

have accomplished in the face of tragedy. The Committee appreciates you sharing your story. 

It is clear that reliable internet access is critically important for 

someone like you to get online and reach your customers, and I 

really agree wholeheartedly with the way you framed the issue in 

terms of being a public utility. We know that about 40 percent of 

rural Americans lack broadband internet access, and 25 percent of 

my home district does not have a broadband subscription. Clearly, 

we need rural investment in broadband services, but it also strikes 

me, and you spoke about this in your testimony, that like 

broadband, we need universal, affordable Postal Service that ensures that rural businesses can reach their customers. And so we 

spent a bit of time talking a lot about the rural broadband piece, 

and I would love to hear from you a bit more on the impact on 

rural communities if the Postal Service was privatized. 

Mr. INGERSOLL. I have concerns about it being prioritized just 

because like right now with UPS, FedEx, and these other carriers 

that are private companies, they charge rural surcharges, fuel surcharges, and all these sorts of things to deliver it to these rural 

areas. The post office makes it very accessible, and if you want to 

keep the barrier of entry low for ecommerce in general, the Postal 

Service is the only one that is really going to provide that service 

where you can be competitive with larger companies that have 

their own logistics networks and their own deals with carriers to 

compete with a bigger advantage over someone who is just starting 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

21 

out. So I would say privatizing it would be a big concern to me because rural America is going to be cut out of the deal. Or at the 

very least you are going to increase the cost for people who are already struggling. 

Mr. DELGADO. So it would specifically hurt your business? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Yeah, it would specifically hurt me. 

Mr. DELGADO. In terms of the overhead and the cost increases. 

You talked about controlled monopolies. Another insight that I 

agree with. And the need to figure out how government needs to 

play a role, whether it is in partnership with private actors or otherwise, and specifically, given the fact that rural communities time 

and time again, particularly as we lurch toward privatization in almost every public sector, is leaving specifically rural communities 

behind because they do not have the population centers to 

incentivize private actors to make the investment. And so while we 

might have access and have had access for some time, as you note, 

since 2008, we see the disproportionate disadvantages that the 

rural communities are struggling with. 

Could you speak a bit more about how the quality, or lack thereof, of your broadband access has really impacted your ability to 

conduct business? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Well, as ecommerce has evolved, buyer expectations have increased. So it is much more of a priority to process 

orders quickly and things like that. If your internet goes down and 

you have no other way to process those orders, it is going to negatively impact you. And as ecommerce continues to grow, competition increases, people in more urban areas with better access to 

internet are having a big advantage over their rural competitors 

because of that. I think it is essential to even the playing field in 

that regard. 

Mr. DELGADO. Excellent. Thank you very much. 

I yield back. 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back. 

And Mr. Stauber, the gentleman from Minnesota, is recognized 

for 5 minutes. He is the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee eon 

Contracting and Infrastructure. 

Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Madam Chair. And to the witnesses, 

thank you for your testimony. 

I, too, am a small business owner for 28 years in rural northern 

Minnesota, and so I understand what you are going through and 

some of the concerns. One of the things, we talk about broadband 

being deployed. What I have said is high-speed, dependable internet is not a luxury anymore. It is an absolute necessity. And rural 

America seems to be put on the back burner. 

Mr. Ward, I appreciate your comments about it has to be that 

public-private partnership. Rural Minnesota, rural America is left 

behind and it is not acceptable anymore. And so I hear my colleagues from Colorado and Iowa saying the same thing. We have 

a lot of support for deploying that broadband, and I love the fact 

that you all have nodded your head when you understand that 

competition is good for deploying that because competition is good 

for the consumer and we know that for a variety of reasons, dependable broadband is absolutely needed. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

22 

We can go in some of our rural areas that are just miles apart 

the same value of a home, a resale of a home is going to go higher 

when it has a dependable broadband and high-speed service. 

Mr. Ingersoll, you talked about the Postal Service and I really 

appreciate that. In a time when everything is online and digitalized, I think we forget how many people and industries depend 

on dependable Postal Service, which make our experience as consumers possible and help expand small businesses like yours. 

I have recently cosponsored a number of resolutions to maintain 

important aspects of the Postal Service, such as door delivery and 

6-day mail service so that we can continue to support small rural 

businesses across this Nation. 

As Congress continues to discuss postal reform, what are some 

of the biggest challenges you foresee should the Postal Service become limited in rural areas? And please give me an estimated annual cost to your business if the Postal Service does not continue 

the 6-day service or limits its rural delivery and pickups. 

Mr. INGERSOLL. It would be tough for me to speak to an exact 

number on that just because I do not know exactly what percentage of my customers are in a rural area. Typically, the nature of 

my business, you are going to get more of a rural customer base 

than an urban customer base just because people are not riding 

ATVs in cities. 

But, I mean, overall, if you limit that, I am going to have to stop 

using the Postal Service and, you know, spend more to go with 

FedEx, UPS, someone that is going to offer delivery that a customer is going to expect. Unfortunately, I do not set the precedent 

for what a customer expects. Larger companies do that negotiate 

their own deals with carriers. So it puts me at a big disadvantage 

in comparison to—— 

Mr. STAUBER. Well, can you just give me an idea of the amount 

of product you sell and send? Give the Committee an idea, just a 

rough guess what it would cost if you had to add those additional 

charges from other competitors. 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Well, first off, we use a lot of the priority and 

regional boxes, which are supplied by the Postal Service. We send 

about 8,000 shipments a year with the Postal Service. So the average cost of a box is around $1 if I had to buy it, so there is $10,000 

in costs. The next nearest carrier that offers a comparable service 

to USPS and the flat rate program is FedEx, and they are on average about $5 more per shipment than Priority Mail. So five times 

$10,000 plus, you know. 

Mr. STAUBER. It would be a significant increase? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Yes. 

Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much. 

And with my last 30 seconds here, Mr. Ward, you talked about 

you have worked on The Hill, and you made a statement to both 

the House and Senate, ‘‘ Then make a better bill.’’ I can assure you 

that is exactly why I ran, to make sure that rural America, rural 

Minnesota, we matter. And I appreciate those comments, and we 

are going to work that. And with your testimony, your expertise, 

it helps us also. I want to thank you all for taking your time and 

giving us your stories. And we appreciate it. 

Madam Chair, I yield back. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

23 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back. 

And now we recognize the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms. 

Houlahan, for 5 minutes. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

My name is Chrissy Houlahan. I am a small business and entrepreneur person as well, and I have grown a lot of businesses from 

the beginning and did online sales back in the early 2000s of footwear and apparel, so I know the trials and tribulations of trying 

to start up a business and trying to get things into a box to where 

they are going across the country with all of its ancillary problems. 

And my questions I guess have to do a little bit for Mr. Ward, your 

conversation and your testimony both orally and written, that had 

to do with an emphasis on public and private partnerships for 

small businesses to worry about things like cybersecurity and 

cyberspace. And I was wondering if you could put a little bit more 

meat on the bone of what you mean by a public and private partnership and how those small businesses can be tapped into being 

able to be safe and secure online. 

Mr. WARD. Certainly. Thank you. I appreciate the question. 

It is amazing how many small business owners are members of 

Congress now, is it not? I think there is something that has to do 

with the experience of starting your own business and dealing with 

a myriad of problems at the same time. 

It is beyond the pale to also ask small businesses to consider how 

to pay the bills, how to deal with the logistics, how to have a good 

idea, how to deal with their staff, and to become IT experts. Right? 

And far too often the burden of running a small business can become overwhelming if you do not have answers. If you do not have 

somebody to turn to on guidance. 

On the issue of cybersecurity, I think most small businesses 

would feel very alone indeed. One of the issues is that ransomware, 

hacks, breaches, data theft generally, they put small businesses 

completely out of business. They are extinction-level events because 

they cost so much, but also because the compliance required is far 

over the head of most small business owners. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. But what does a private-public partnership 

look like? 

Mr. WARD. So if the SBA, for example, were given more resources and more guidance on how to make training available and 

how to make the tools and resources available for small businesses, 

we would be more likely to use them. Additionally, there needs to 

be a safe harbor. There needs to be a place, a way for small businesses to report hacks and breaches that does not feel like it is 

going to be the end of their business. The next piece I think that 

is essential is we have to find a way to better fund prosecution of 

these hacks and data breaches. I do not have the numbers directly 

in front of me but I believe it is something like 1 percent of all 

cyberattacks are ever reported, and less than 10 percent of those 

are ever intervened or prosecuted. There are no deterrents. And 

without the public enforcement, there is no private incentive. And 

so there needs to be a better understanding between small businesses and the SBA, Department of Commerce generally, DHS specifically, on how they can work together to harden the target that 

is small business datasets. Because cumulatively, that is valuable 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

24 

data, but too often we pay attention to the large breaches—hotel 

chains, retail stores—because it is bigger. It is more data. Cumulatively, there is just as much data in the small business community. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. And I appreciate your feedback. 

And I have one question. I hate to keep coming back to the USPS, 

the Postal Service thing because it is intriguing to me as somebody 

who is in charge of operations and shipping and logistics. But can 

you try to quantify the impact if you needed to go to DHL or to 

FedEx and you were on longer able to use the USPS as 80 percent 

of your shipments are going out of the USPS, would you be able, 

Mr. Ingersoll, to talk about the impact on the bottom line? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. The effect that would have, it would make 

what I do, it would not be a viable option any longer. The problem 

is it is a lot of reproduction, Chinese parts, whereas I sell OEM 

parts that are coming over, and they are already within competition to us but the problem is if my costs increase it would price me 

out completely. My customers are typically lower income and they 

will not spend extra money for the same thing they were used to 

purchasing before. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. And my last question has to do 

with kind of the impact of women-owned businesses, and I am interested in trying to understand from you, Ms. Stout, if you can tell 

me a little bit about—I know the question was about family leave, 

and I think you came back around appropriately to health care as 

being probably the biggest issue. What would it look like to feel 

like you were supported to be able to have a small business in 

terms of access to healthcare quality, affordable, accessible 

healthcare? What are the pressure points for you right now as a 

small business owner? 

Ms. STOUT. Thank you for the question. It is pretty in depth, 

I think. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. And I have 8 seconds left. 

Ms. STOUT. There is a lot that goes on with it. I think just having better options. It was very hard for me to navigate when I was 

searching and looking for things to help support my family once I 

realized that I was going to need to find another solution. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. And maybe what I can do since I am over time 

is afterwards I can find you. 

Ms. STOUT. Yes. Yes. Please follow up. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. And learn from you. Yeah. 

Ms. STOUT. I would love to answer. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. I appreciate your time, all of you. 

Ms. STOUT. Yes, of course. Thank you. 

Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you so much. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentlelady’s time has expired. 

And now we recognize Mr. Burchett from Tennessee. 

Mr. BURCHETT. Thank you, Chairlady. And I appreciate you all 

being here. I, myself, have done a little eBay. I think I had over 

1,000 transactions on eBay. Last week I sold a pair of jeans, and 

I know when my daughter watches this when she gets home from 

school that that money will probably be back out in the economy 

before I can get home. So I am looking forward to that. 

As a matter of fact, when I was in the legislature in Tennessee, 

I carried legislation for eBay. I did not profit from it. It was not 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

25 

that type of a situation. It was just some clarification in the law 

of where they were. But all the questions really have been asked 

that I had, but this is sort of a catchall, and I am always asking 

folks this, and I would like just an honest answer. We can start 

down at the end. 

Mr. Ingersoll, I ride a few bikes myself. Mine are all old kick 

starters though. They are not electric starts or anything quite as 

fancy as what you deal with. But I guess my catchall question is, 

would you all be willing to explain any burdens that you see that 

government is placing on small businesses right now that if you 

could have changed overnight you would? Yeah, go ahead. I want 

everybody to answer that, too, if they could. 

Mr. INGERSOLL. As far as the Federal Government, aside from 

some of the tax policies not being formed around sales tax, the 

thing about bringing opportunity to these rural areas is keeping 

the barrier of entry low. And when you need to keep track of 50 

different sales tax, it becomes a real problem because if you are 

starting out with $20,000 or $30,000 in sales just trying to make 

a living or something like that and you need to keep track of all 

that, you have to hire an accountant, you may have to implement 

software to track it all. And you do not want to make it more difficult than it needs to be for someone to go out there and compete 

because if you are going up against someone like Amazon, they 

have the resources to handle that. A small company does not. 

Mr. BURCHETT. Do any of the websites that you sell—I guess 

you just sell primarily on eBay. Do they currently now take the 

sales tax out for the states that are not brick and mortar in your 

state or however? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. I believe anyway that it is a marketplace 

nexus. 

Mr. BURCHETT. Okay. 

Anybody else have problems? 

Mr. WARD. I have several problems with the regulatory burdens. 

But I think the primary burden that both state and Federal Governments currently are placing on small businesses that we can 

talk about today is uncertainty. Uncertainty for a small business 

is fatal. Not knowing what the market looks like, not knowing 

what access to tools or talent or broadband will look like in 18 

months makes it incredibly difficult to plan. For large businesses, 

market uncertainty can be an opportunity. For small businesses it 

is incredibly detrimental. We need to figure this out sooner than 

later in order to restore some level of sanity to the marketplace. 

Mr. CONNORS. I would add to that, uncertainty clearly is an 

issue, particularly as it relates to this effort. But for most businesses, the companion piece would be predictability. There is not 

a problem for most businesses to recognize you need to be regulated, you need to address certain issues, but when those areas or 

when those issues change or the regulations around those issues 

change, that becomes a real problem. So with uncertainty would 

also be the need for predictability within any regulation. 

Mr. BURCHETT. Right. I think something that troubled me was 

you would find out after the fact. 

Mr. CONNORS. Exactly. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

26 

Mr. BURCHETT. And it is very tough to retroactively pull that 

back. 

Mr. CONNORS. Yes. 

Mr. BURCHETT. And it hurts the small businesses. Big businesses, they have accountants and lobbyists and lawyers up here 

and they can tell them exactly. 

Mr. WARD. Something has happened over the last 5 to 10 years 

where we have developed in terms of a digital tool stack for small 

businesses. Right? You can get your email through Gmail. You can 

use Infusion Soft to do your CRM. You can use Amazon as a marketplace or eBay as a marketplace. And some of these other logistics groups. The price point for those tools is as low as it is because 

of math that has been done at the larger level. If you change that 

business model for larger tech companies or even platforms generally, you also change the math for the small business. So most 

of that burden is inadvertent. Right? Nobody was aiming for small 

businesses. But if you aim at the top of the interconnected digital 

economy, you are going to hit the bottom. 

Mr. BURCHETT. Thank you, all. I am out of time. And I appreciate you all’s entrepreneurship and being willing to roll the device. 

And ma’am, if you had been here, all these people got tax-free 

status for a year but since you walked out you missed your opportunity. 

Thank you, Chairlady, for an excellently run meeting. Thank 

you, ma’am. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

We now recognize the gentlelady from Minnesota, Ms. Craig, for 

5 minutes. 

Ms. CRAIG. Thank you so much, Chairwoman. And thanks to 

each of you. Sorry, I have been in and out, too, but I am also on 

the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, so we are working hard to have those conversations about how we can bring rural 

broadband, high-speed internet to every single part of America to 

help us revitalize and allow you to continue to build those small 

businesses. 

So a lot of the questions certainly have been asked today. And 

Mr. Ingersoll, I wanted to just start with you. You have talked 

about that rural broadband being essential to ensuring the success 

of your small business. In our hearing here last week, we focused 

on the relationship between broadband and the potential larger infrastructure package that we are going to be considering we certain 

hope. Such a package is likely to support our existing Federal Recreational Trails Program, and that helps fund the development and 

maintenance of many trails, including ATV trails, which is very 

popular back in my home state of Minnesota as well. 

My question to you is then, what do you see as the most viable 

path forward to get broadband out to our rural communities and 

make that a reality? And if we are unsuccessful in some of those 

areas, what does that do in terms of affecting your business? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Well, I mean, anyone that does not have access to the internet that they can, you know, if they cannot easily 

navigate it or it is consistently down, they are not going to feel 

comfortable shopping online. They are going to look for other outlets for whatever they are trying to search out because a lot of 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

27 

these rural communities, you have groups of people who are not familiar enough with the internet yet to have trust in it. They do not 

understand aspects of it. So I think that reliable service would be 

the foundation of that. And I think the future is ecommerce. So ensuring that everyone has access to it in a similar manner is essential for any business to grow in the business. 

Ms. CRAIG. Thank you. 

I worked for a big business for about 2 decades, two different big 

businesses. And after that I ended up becoming a senior advisor before being elected to Congress to a small startup company. So I just 

want to say how much harder it is to work for a small business 

than it is a large business in this country. And I applaud you, Ms. 

Stout, for the work that you did to build your business. It is wonderful. 

Let me ask this question of both of you though. What would you 

do different if you had to start this all over again? What mistakes 

did you make and is there any advice to entrepreneurs and small 

businesses? And how can we take that into account as we look at 

either regulation or infrastructure decisions? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. I would say initially I underestimated the potential that marketplaces like eBay have. I was thinking much 

smaller initially than I should have and long term it would have 

benefitted me to realize that opportunity earlier. Outside of that, 

there is not really much I would change as far as how I operated 

and grew my business. The one thing though that needs to be considered I think with policy is businesses have shifted from being 

larger retail outlets to being very low revenue, one to five person 

operations. And if policy is not formed around that it is just going 

to push that opportunity to larger companies and unless you want 

to work in a fulfillment center, there is not going to be opportunity 

in these areas that are going to be impacted. 

Ms. CRAIG. Ms. Stout, do you have anything to add? 

Ms. STOUT. Similarly to what Mr. Ingersoll said, I would have 

started sooner if I would have known what I know now. Things 

went a lot better than I expected also. And also, yes, gearing more 

policy towards smaller businesses and not assuming that we all 

want to be large businesses because some of us do not. Some of us 

want to just support our families and communities. And that would 

be very, very helpful. Thank you. 

Ms. CRAIG. Thank you both for your story and for your commitment to small business and the country. Thank you. 

Madam Chairwoman, I yield back my time. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back. 

And now we recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Schneider, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you. And I want to thank the Chairwoman for hosting this hearing, and as always, to thank the witnesses for (a) your perseverance in staying here until the end, and 

I appreciate you waiting, but more importantly, for sharing your 

perspectives and experiences is critical. 

We are talking about unlocking the potential of digital economy 

in rural communities. I am also on the Ways and Means Committee. Last week we had a hearing on infrastructure. And I represent the northern suburbs of Chicago. Not a lot of rural. But I 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

28 

understand how important rural broadband is and I made the 

point there that we need to absolutely make rural broadband part 

of whatever infrastructure conversation we have to empower and 

make sure that not just small businesses but rural communities 

can compete. But I also know from my experience working with 

businesses large and small how important and how wonderful 

small businesses are. I happen to think that I prefer the small 

business world. I prefer being my own boss. And I was thinking, 

Mr. Ingersoll, you mentioned with bigger, and coming from Chicago 

I thought of Daniel Burnham, and I just looked up the quote to 

make sure. But it is ‘‘ Make no little plans because they otherwise 

have no magic to stir the soul.’’ This is what is about, is hopefully 

your businesses do stir your soul, and in so doing, you and millions 

of others, 29 million small businesses in the country, that is what 

can drive and always has driven our economy. But we need to 

make sure we have that access, the access to technology and the 

new successes. 

But with those new successes there is also going to be challenges. 

And one of the challenges which I know we have talked about a 

bit is cybersecurity. Last Congress I was fortunate, I was able with 

my colleagues to introduce the Small Business Cybersecurity Enhancement Act, which will help businesses address their gap in 

cybersecurity needs from enhanced technology defenses to security 

awareness training. And it is key because as you said, while maybe 

a smaller business, it can be a gateway to a bigger breach. I do not 

care if it affects millions or me alone, me alone is a big impact. And 

for everyone who is affected that is true. 

To our business owners, my question to you is what degree do 

you keep cybersecurity concerns in mind as you look to expand 

your business as you think about those big plans? How are you addressing those vulnerabilities? And for Mr. Ward in particular, how 

are groups like 3C working with members to shore up these 

vulnerabilities and ensure everything from payment platforms to 

consumer information are protected? 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Me? 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Anyone? Yeah. 

Mr. INGERSOLL. Using eBay is a big advantage because I do 

not have to deal with storing that data or even handling it. They 

are controlling that completely so that burden is entirely off me. It 

is not even a concern. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Great. 

Ms. Stout? 

Ms. STOUT. Very similar to Mr. Ingersoll, again. I mostly work 

through Etsy and PayPal invoicing so I do not see any secure information. It is all taken care of for me which is very, very helpful. 

I would not want to have to deal with it. Thank you. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Before I go to Mr. Ward, Mr. Connors, anything you want to add? 

Mr. CONNORS. Well, I would add that it is a real concern to 

businesses, needless to say. And we have tried to bring as much 

information through Federal agencies and so forth to our state to 

help educate and inform our businesses as to the vulnerability, but 

also the things you can do to help address it. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Right. Great. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

29 

And Mr. Ward, I will give you the last word. Because we talked 

earlier with the question of the public-private partnerships. This is 

where I do believe industry, government, educational institutions, 

groups like yours, can work to raise the bar and give the security 

our small businesses need. So I will leave you with the last word, 

the last minute. 

Mr. WARD. I agree with that. So in reverse order, 3C is relatively new to this space. We launched less than a year ago but are 

growing pretty rapidly and cybersecurity training and resources 

are at the top of the list we would like to deliver to our small business members. Working with SBA and state governments to hone 

those materials would be a welcomed opportunity. 

The biggest, the most often utilized tool for cybersecurity is what 

you just heard here. It is the platforms that offer secure data management, resources, and sort of take that burden off the small business. What I am worried about particularly in state legislative proposals right now, the California Consumer Privacy Act, for example, takes away some of that protection by classifying small businesses that cross over into compliance requirements at 50,000 installs, for example. They then become responsible for data sets. So 

if you are a realtor that has 50,000 names entered into a database, 

it does not matter that you are storing it in a Google doc. You are 

now responsible for that data and you cannot rely on a platform 

to hold your hand through that process. So the long answer is— 

I am sorry, the short answer is we are eager to help our members. 

Do you want the long one? 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you. I appreciate that. And before I 

yield back, Madam Chairwoman, what I would like to add is we are 

at the frontier. These are new opportunities. Our small businesses 

are always at the frontier, whether it was the Industrial Revolution 

or today with the digital revolution. But there will always be unexpected surprises along the way. There will be unintended consequences. Together, working together, industry, policymakers, we 

have to find a way to ensure data security, create the opportunities 

through rural broadband and other digital access, and make sure 

that we are providing our entrepreneurs, American businesses, the 

chance to grow the American economy. 

With that I yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

I want to take this opportunity to again thank all the witnesses 

for taking time out of your busy schedule to be here and share your 

stories, to bring to the halls of Congress the importance of including small businesses, but especially rural America. This is a bipartisan issue, and hopefully we all come together and build a consensus around an important issue that will unlock economic opportunities across the country. 

Whether it is purchasing transnational flights or providing distant telehealth services, the internet has completely changed our 

society. Most of all, digital platforms have changed the way entrepreneurs reach new and existing customers. But without reliable 

broadband, these new opportunities and the economic activity associated with them is severely hampered. That is why we must ensure digital tools reach every American wherever they call home. 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

30 

I ask unanimous consent that members have 5 legislative days 

to submit statements and supporting materials for the record. 

Without objection, so ordered. 

And if there is no further business to come before the committee, 

we are adjourned. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 1:06 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

SBR002 with DISTILLER

31 

A P P E N D I X 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 31 here 35340.001
32 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 32 here 35340.002
33 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 33 here 35340.003
34 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 34 here 35340.004
35 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 35 here 35340.005
36 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 36 here 35340.006
37 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 37 here 35340.007
38 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 38 here 35340.008
39 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 39 here 35340.009
40 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 40 here 35340.010
41 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 41 here 35340.011
42 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 42 here 35340.012
43 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 43 here 35340.013
44 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 44 here 35340.014
45 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 45 here 35340.015
46 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 46 here 35340.016
47 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 47 here 35340.017
48 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 48 here 35340.018
49 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 49 here 35340.019
50 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 50 here 35340.020
51 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 51 here 35340.021
52 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 52 here 35340.022
53 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 53 here 35340.023
54 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 54 here 35340.024
55 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 55 here 35340.025
56 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 56 here 35340.026
57 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 57 here 35340.027
58 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 58 here 35340.028
59 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 59 here 35340.029
60 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 60 here 35340.030
61 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 61 here 35340.031
62 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 62 here 35340.032
63 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 63 here 35340.033
64 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 64 here 35340.034
65 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 65 here 35340.035
66 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 66 here 35340.036
67 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 67 here 35340.037
68 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 68 here 35340.038
69 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 69 here 35340.039
70 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 70 here 35340.040
71 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 71 here 35340.041
72 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 72 here 35340.042
73 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 73 here 35340.043
74 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 74 here 35340.044
75 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 75 here 35340.045
76 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 76 here 35340.046
77 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 77 here 35340.047
78 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 78 here 35340.048
79 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 79 here 35340.049
80 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 80 here 35340.050
81 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 81 here 35340.051
82 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 82 here 35340.052
83 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 83 here 35340.053
84 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 84 here 35340.054
85 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 85 here 35340.055
86 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 86 here 35340.056
87 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 87 here 35340.057
88 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 88 here 35340.058
89 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 89 here 35340.059
90 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 90 here 35340.060
91 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 91 here 35340.061
92 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 92 here 35340.062
93 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 93 here 35340.063
94 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 94 here 35340.064
95 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 95 here 35340.065
96 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 96 here 35340.066
97 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 97 here 35340.067
98 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 98 here 35340.068
99 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 99 here 35340.069
100 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 100 here 35340.070
101 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 101 here 35340.071
102 

Æ 

SBR002 with DISTILLER


Insert offset folio 102 here 35340.072