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COMMITTEE ON

INTER IOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE

NIN ETY-SECON D CONG RESS

SE CO ND SE SS IO N

ON

T H E NO MIN ATI ON OF JA CK O. HO RT ON TO BE A MEM BE R 

OF T H E JO IN T F EDERAL-S TA TE L AN D US E PL AN NI NG 

CO MMISSION FO R A LA SK A

MA RCH 13, 1972

P ri n te d f or the u se of the 

Com m itt ee on In te ri o ra n d In su la r A ffai rs

76-021

U.S. G O V ER N M EN T P R IN T IN G O FFIC E 

W A SH IN G TO N : 1972
COM MIT TE E OX IN T E R IO R AN D IN SU LAR A FFA IR S 

H EN R Y M. JA CK SO N, Washington, Chairman

CLIN TON P. ANDERSO N, New Mexico

ALAN BIBL E, Nevada

FRAN K CHURCH, Idaho

FRAN K E. MOSS, Utali

QU ENTIN N. BURDICK , North Dakota

GEORGE McGOYERN, South Dakota

LEE METCALF, Montana

MIKE GRAVEL, Alaska

Jerry T. Verkler, Staff Director

William J. Van Ness, Chief Counsel

Charles Cook, Minority Countet

GORD ON ALLOTT, Colorado 

LEN B. JOR DAN , Idaho

PAUL J. FAN NIN, Arizona 

CLIFF OR D P. HANSEN. Wyoming 

MARK O. HATFIELD , Oregon 

HE NR Y BELLMON, Oklahoma 

JAMES L. BUCKLEY , New York
NOMIN ATION OF JACK 0 . HORTON TO BE A MEMBER

OF THE JOINT FEDERAL-S TATE LAND USE PL AN ­

NING COMMISSION FOR ALASKA

MOND AY , M A RCH 13, 19 72

U.S. Senate,

C om mi tt ee on I nte rio r and I ns ul ar A ff air s,

Washington, I).C.

The committee met at 10 a.m., in room 3110, New Senate Office 

Building, lion . Mike Gravel, presiding.

Present: Senators Gravel, (presiding), Hansen and Buckley.

Also present: Jerry T. Verkler, staff director; William J. Van Ness, 

chief counsel; and Thomas Nelson, assistant minority counsel.

Senator Gravel. The hearing will come to order.

STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE GRAVEL. A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF ALASKA

Senator Gravel. The purpose of this morning’s hearing is to consider the President’s nomination of Mr. Jack O. Horton to serve as a 

member and as the Federal Cochairman of the Joint Federal-State 

Land Use Planning Commission for Alaska. This position and the 

Land Use Planning Commission for Alaska were established by section 

17 of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act of 1971.

One of the most important problems facing the State of Alaska 

and the Federal Government in connection with the settlement of 

the land claims issue and the lifting of the Secretarial Order “land 

freeze” tha t has operated in Alaska over the past 5 years is to develop 

rational and coherent land use planning provisions which will operate 

to preserve the environment and protect the public interest in the 

Federal lands in Alaska without, at the same time, frustrating the 

reasonable expectations of the Native people and the State to exercise, 

in a normal manner, the rights granted to them by this act and by the 

Alaska Statehood Act.

Mr. Horton, the committee looks forward to hearing your statement 

and your views on the important responsibilities you would assume if 

confirmed as Chairman of the Joint Land Use Planning.

Without objection, 1 shall direct tha t the biography of Mr. Horton 

be included in the hearing at this point.

(The biography referred to follows:)

B io g r a ph y o f J ac k O. H orto n

Ja ck O. Ho rto n, 34, of Saddles tring, Wyoming, has bee n no minate d by th e 

Preside nt for th e pos itio n of Feder al Co -Chairm an, Jo in t Fe de ral-S tate La nd 

Use Plannin g Com mission for Alas ka.

(1)
9

M r. H ort on is cu rr en tly se rv in g as D ep ut y U nder Sec re ta ry of th e In te ri o r, 

ha vin g b ee n appo in te d to th a t po sition in Aug ust 1971 by Sec re ta ry Rog ers C. B. 

M or to n.

M r. H orton w as ra ised on th e H F Bar, a fa m ily ra nc h e st ab lish ed by h is gra ndfa th er, th e la te Con gr es sm an F ra n k O. H or to n. He gra duate d from Princ et on 

U ni ve rs ity w ith ho no rs in geolo gy and re ad in th e H on or s Scho ol of Po lit ics, 

Philo so ph y an d Ec on om ics a t Oxford U ni ver si ty under a Rho de s Sc ho larship. 

He in te rr upte d his stud ie s th ere to ente r th e N av al Air T ra in in g C om m an d. 

Rec eivi ng h is wings in 1962, Lie ute nan t H orton wa s as sign ed to a N av al Airb or ne 

Rec on na issa nc e Squ ad ro n out si de of Tok yo , Ja p an . For th re e ye ars, he st udie d 

Ja pa nes e, tr av el le d ex tens iv el y th ro ughout th e F ar E as t, and was se pa ra te d from 

N av al s ervice in 1965 w ith s ev en de co ra tion s and 165 co m bat an d re co nn ai ss an ce 

mi ssi on s in S outh ea st Asia. He re tu rn ed to Oxford an d rece iv ed a M. A. de gree in 

1966.

Sub se qu en tly, M r. H orton re tu rn ed to W yo ming where he be ca me Vice Pre si ­

d ent of th e H F Bar Ran ch . He s er ve d for a ye ar a nd a h al f as Exe cu tiv e D irec to r 

of th e W yo ming R ep ub lica n P art y.

D ur in g 1969, M r. H orton was em pl oy ed as an as si st ant to Rus sell E. T ra in , 

fo rm er U nd er Sec re ta ry of the In te rior. In thi s a ss ig nm en t, Mr. H orton w as nam ed 

E xe cu tive Sec re ta ry of th e Fed er al Tas k Fo rce on Alask an Oil D ev el op m en t esta bli sh ed by Pre side nt Ni xo n in M ay 1969. He se rv ed as Sp ec ial A ss ista nt to 

fo rm er In te ri or Sec re ta ry W al te r J. Hicke l and wa s ap poin te d D ep uty Ass istant 

Sec re ta ry for Pr og ra m Po lic y and th en D ep ut y U nder Sec re ta ry by Sec re ta ry 

Rog er s M or to n.

An av id ou td oo rs m an , Mr. H orton was elec ted to Al l-A merican ho no rs in 

lacros se in his ju nio r and senior yea rs a t Princ et on an d wa s a m em be r of th e All 

S outh of Eng la nd La cro sse Tea m a t Ox ford. He att en d ed th e Sw iss N at io nal 

M ou nt ai ne er in g In sti tu te , part ic ip ate d in W yo min g rode os , an d wa s a h u n ti n g 

gu ide an d ski in st ru cto r.

M r. H or to n is m ar ried to th e fo rm er Grace Esp y For d of Sav an nah , G eo rg ia. 

T he y resid e in W as hi ng ton, D.C .

Senator Gravel. I would like to call upon my good friend and, of 

course, a very distinguished colleague and a member of this committee 

in excellent standing to do the honors with respect to your presence. 

I recognize at this time, the distinguished Senator from Wyoming, 

Senator Hansen.

STA TEM ENT OF HON. CLIFFORD P. HANSEN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

TH E STA TE OF WYOMING

Senator Hansen. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the committee. It is my pleasure to welcome Mr. 

Jack O. Horton, from the State of Wyoming today and to introduce 

him to my colleagues on the Committee on Interior and Insular 

Affairs. Most of you have had an opportunity to work with Mr. 

Horton in the past 3 years. He has played a very important role in 

the operation, of the Department of the Interior. I expect tha t all 

members of the committee have been as impressed as 1 with the outstanding manner in which he has handled the many difficult tasks 

assigned to him.

It is very appropriate that Jack Horton be nominated to be a 

member of the Joint Federal-State Land Use Planning Commission 

for Alaska. Since joining the Department of the Interior in 196 9, 

Jack Horton has worked closely with the problems of Alaska. Since 

this committee has jurisdiction over the recently passed Alaskan 

Native land claims legislation, we are all familiar with how complicated the problems of Alaska are. 1 am confident that the knowledge 

and background which Mr. Horton has gained with the Department 

will make him a most effective member of the Joint Federal-State 

Land Planning Commission for Alaska.
3

Jack Ilorton is a member of one of Wyoming’s most prominent 

families. His grandfather served Wyoming in the U.S. House of Representatives. Jack Horton’s accomplishments have added to the distinction of the whole Horton family. Jack was raised on the family 

ranch in North Central Wyoming. He is an honors graduate of Princeton University and a Rhodes scholar. He received a master’s decree 

from Oxford in 1966. He has an outstanding military record. I might 

state tha t I believe Mr. Horton flew 165 missions in Vietnam. So he is 

not a stranger to combat.

1 am confident tha t Jack Horton can contribute greatly to Alaska 

and the Nation as Federal Cochairman of the Joint Commission 

and I urge early Senate confirmation of the President’s nomination, 

of Jack O. Horton to this post.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Gravel. Thank you, Senator Hansen.

Mr. Horton, do you have a statement you wish to make?

STATEMENT OF JACK 0. HORTON, NOMINEE FOR FEDERAL COCHAIRMAN, JOINT FEDERAL-STATE LAND USE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR ALASKA

Mr. Horton. Mr. Chairman, Senator Buckley. I am most grateful 

to you, Senator Hansen, for your kind introduction and also grateful 

to have Mitchell Melich, Solicitor for the Department of Interior.

It is a great personal honor to appear before you as the President’s 

nominee for the position of Federal Co-chairman of the Joint FederalState Land Use Planning Commission for Alaska.

I present myself as a concerned American deeply committed to the 

balanced use and intelligent management of the manifold resources 

of this great State.

My military experience in the Aleutians and my daily involvement 

with Alaskan affairs in the Department of the Interior have given me 

a working knowledge of the problems and the promise of our magnificent north country.

It is from this background tha t I look forward with great personal 

anticipation to the challenge of serving as the Commission’s Cochairman.

The vast lands of Alaska now lie at a watershed. The passage of the 

Native Claims Settlem ent Act has accelerated the process of jurisdictional transfer and crystalized the competing claims for America’s 

last large portion of substantially untouched public domain comprising 

almost two-thirds of Alaska. The passage of the act has emphasized 

the param ount need for careful and objective planning of these Federal lands in a p attern compatible with the use and protection of those 

lands selected by the State of Alaska ami by Alaska Natives. It is this 

mission, as advisors to the Federal and State Government and the 

Alaska Natives, tha t the Commission can fulfill an historic potential.

As the late 19th century saw an end to the frontier days in my 

State of Wyoming, so now must we recognize tha t an important 

evolution is underway on the public lands in Alaska. A primary 

responsibility of the Commission, in which the State and Federal 

Governments join in close partnership, must be to recognize and 

intelligently guide this evolution.
4

Among the immediate priorities for study by the Commission are:

The size and location of future parks, refuges, and multi-purpose 

lands; the important and careful development of mineral resources, 

and the structure of interconnecting transp ortation systems.

Of equal importance for early examination bv the Commission will 

be:

Those Federal and State lands to be made available for disposal; 

the uses and protection of lands remaining in Federal and State ownership; the suitability of existing withdrawals of Federal lands; the 

adequacy of land laws and land policies in Alaska, and the effects of 

land policy upon the economic and social well-being of the Native 

people and resident Alaskans.

One of the high responsibilities of the Commission will be the coordination of specific planning efforts under Federal, State and Native 

jurisdictions into a balanced statewide land pattern tha t will be responsive to the optimum long-range needs and aspirations of all 

Americans.

Despite the complexities of the law, and the strong voices that will 

bear upon the Commission’s deliberations, there exists the certainty 

tha t reasonable men with patience and forebearance can present 

enlightened and balanced solutions to these competing claims.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, under the Alaska 

Native Claims Settlement Act we have the opportunity to plan the 

great lands of Alaska the rig ht way the first time. With this plain but 

certain mandate, and with no mean personal enthusiasm, I am grateful 

for the opportunity to appear before you and to answer any questions 

tha t you may care to present.

Senator Gravel. Than k you very much, Mr. Horton.

Senator Hansen, do you have any questions?

Senator Hansen. No, than k you, Mr. Chairman. I do not believe 

I do. I have known Jack Horton for some several years. I have nothing 

but the greatest of respect for him. He has distinguished himself as a 

very competent career man. 1 do not know how long we will be able to 

keep him in Government service. It would be to the benefit of our 

country if it would be a long and extended career, but I know something of the strong ties he has in Wyoming.

I can say this, though, I have no doubt at all tha t he will put his 

every best effort and his full commitment into the task before him. 

I think he has certainly demonstrated to his colleagues in the Department his willingness to work full time. The background of academic 

training he has and his experience qualifies him for this important 

position. I am certain tha t he will perform in a very exemplary fashion 

as he assumes this very awesome and important responsibility on 

behalf of the President and all the people in the United States.

1 have nothing but the highest regard for him.

Senator Gravel. Thank you very much, Senator.

Senator Buckley?

Senator Buckley. Thank you. I am the only easterner on this 

committee. A ou might excuse my prejudices in advance, tha t is the 

feeling that public lands belong to all the people of the United States, 

and the questions tha t I would ask at this point are directed more or 

less to determining your views as to your responsibilities.

For example, what do you believe should be the policy of the 

committee with respect to making up the Commission?
Mr. Horton. My views must be taken in the context that I would 

serve as one of two chairmen, the Federal Cochairman. My views 

must be properly reflected as being mine and not those of the Commission that has not been established nor have we had at this time any 

lengthy discussions with Governor Egan of Alaska, so my views will 

be individual as opposed, with your permission, to reflecting those of 

the Commission.

But, as y on know, the 365 million acres in Alaska are almost 

entirely under Federal jurisdiction at this time, something in the 

area of 97 percent. The State of Alaska and the Statehood Act were 

given the right to select up to 103% million acres, with the exception 

of the 40 million acres that will ultimately reside in the hands of 

Alaskan Natives. The remainder of the State will almost be entirely 

in public land, either State or Federal public lands, so we bear with 

the State of Alaska a very high responsibility for insuring the proper 

use and proper management of this.

Senator Buckley. Do you have any personal views as to the 

representation on the Commission or the staffing?

Mr. Horton. Yes, we have looked at, in bringing together for 

Secretary Morton’s consideration, proposals as to how the Commission could have a balanced profile, what professions, what categories 

of professionalism should be represented by individuals selected, and 

we have looked towards the law, toward economics, towards professional land planning. We have looked for individuals tha t would have 

extensive mineral resource experience. We look certainly toward the 

environmental sciences.

We have these now for his consideration, but the idea was to bring 

a balanced pattern and profile to the Commission before the individuals were selected. You also understand tha t the Secretary can 

appoint four of the Commission and Governor Egan will appoint his 

four, one of which m ust be an Alaskan Native.

Senator Buckley. Do you have any views as to whether they 

should have some geographic representation as well the skills?

Mr. Horton. Yes. I think it is important tha t residents of the 

State be given imp orta nt consideration in the selection, but it is 

equally true tha t the Federal lands in Alaska are a Fedeial responsibility. The balance must come in terms of not only professionals, but 

also in terms of geographic locations, and we have placed before the 

Secretary a number of individuals which will reflect tha t balance.

Senator Buckley. As you know, the committee is interested in 

Alaska on the pa rt of the people throughout the United States. I 

know the legislation provides for offices for the Commission in Alaska. 

Would you recommend as a cochairman establishing additional offices 

elsewhere in the United States for holding public healings elsewhere 

in the United States to give people in the lower 48 a chance to make 

their input.

Mr. Horton. Yes, 1 feel strongly that Alaska should be planned 

in Alaska, but it is equally7 important that hearings be held and 

certainly they’ will be held not only’ in Alaska but also in the lower 48, 

in Seattle or Washington.

Senator Buckley. I understand that in. January of this year the 

State filed to select some 77 million acres of public lands in Alaska. 

These include some of the most important potential parklands, including the areas to the north and south of Mount McKinley, the
6

Wrangell Mountains and the Brooks Range. Do you have any idea 

of why the State wants these lands if, in fact, they seem to he valuable 

for parks and wildlife rather than for oil lands?

Mr. Horton. Senator, it would be untrue, I think, to reflect tha t 

the sole motivation for their nomination of the 77.3 million land was 

primarily to focus on parks and refuge lands. It is certainly true tha t a 

great number of the lands they nominated for selection would fall in 

these categories, and Secretary Morton will have an announcement 

toward the middle of this week after his judgment and his decision on 

overall withdrawal decisions.

Senator Buckley. You, assuming this, do you see any potential 

for conflict between the interests of local and Federal Government 

here?

Mr. Horton. All the competing interests can’t lay claim to the 

same lands. A number of the areas we have looked at, the Alaskan 

Natives have looked at and the State has looked at, are desirable for 

inclusion under their own lands.

The law is a very complex one. We have examined it very carefully, 

and the Secretary’s decision on Wednesday will reflect the most careful 

analysis, not only of the legality of the bill but our own review of the 

resources in those lands, not simply the park and refuge, but the 

mineral, water, transportation considerations and so forth.

Your question, I think, is leading toward how to resolve the conflicts and it is certain tha t the Secretary will be asking the views and 

recommendations of the Planning Commission in the future as to how 

many of these lands are disposed of.

Senator Buckley. Thank you.

Mr. H orton. I am sorry I am unable to give you a decision this 

morning. It will be Secretary Morton’s announcement on Wednesday.

Senator Buckley. I appreciate that. Thank you very much, Mr 

Chairman, I have no further questions a t this time.

Senator Gravel. What announcement will be on Wednesday?

Mr. Horton. The Secretary will hold a press conference on Wednesday to announce the decision of the action tha t he must take by 

the March 17 date under the act.

Senator Gravel. Very good. Thank you very much, Senator.

I wonder if you are familiar with a letter that I sent to the Secretary 

on February 17, having somewhat of a priority interest in the Commission since it was my amendment tha t was adopted to establish 

the Commission. I sent him a letter with certain suggstions about 

the composition of the Commission. Are you at all familiar with the 

letter?

Mr. Horton. Yes, sir; it is now on the Secretary’s desk and it is 

part of his review before he makes the ultimate decision as to, first, 

what is the balance composition of the Commission and, second, what 

individuals should fill each slot.

Senator Gravel. All right. I think Senator Buckley may be interested, also. The import of my letter was not, of course, to hang 

on the geographical composition at all. In fact, I was more interested 

in seeing a composition tha t reflected the degree of interest, and 

I think tha t the interest found on the Federal side is represented in 

various departments of the Federal Government. I suggested tha t 

the composition be made up of an individual from Interior, and Mr. 

Horton would fill tha t capacity.
7

I suggested an individual from Defense, Agriculture, Commerce, 

Transportation, so tha t the various areas of interest with respect to 

the Federal Government be focused on as p art of the planning relative 

to the Federal side.

I think the thoughts you posed of possibly having some composition 

relative to a broad national public interest in addition to the focus 

on Federal interest, I think tha t might have some merit, also. It should 

be considered, and I would hope tha t the Secretary in his selection 

would give some strong consideration to that.

Mr. Horton. We are certainly aware of the success of composing 

the Federal Field Committee for Alaska and the very excellent job 

tha t they did in bringing together Federal agencies toward a common 

mission.

We also want to be completely clear in our own minds that if the 

majority of the Commission does come, at least from our side, does 

come from Federal agencies, tha t we do not foreclose on our very 

high professional talents tha t otherwise couldn’t be made available. 

I think it is a matter of balance.

The people we look to on the Federal side and State side with other 

people, that could be enormously useful.

Senator Gravel. I think the Commission will be adecpiately made 

up of Alaskans on the State side, so tha t interest would obviously 

be taken care of right there.

Mr. Horton. We are not at all sure that Governor Egan wouldn’t 

select a nationalist as opposed to a member of the State. We will be 

working closely with Governor Egan in making up the Commission 

membership.

Senator Gravel. The thought on this proposal here, when you 

mention the success of the Federal Field Committee, was that it was 

made up of a conglomerate of interests with respect to the Federal 

Commission, so, I am sure you have it in other States as well, we have 

a proliferation of Federal activities tha t are totally uncoordinated.

Here we have an opportunity in dealing with land, which touches 

every other facet of life, to offer some degree of coordination, 

cooperation, one within the Federal Establishment juxtaposed with 

the State establishment, and to negate that possibility, I think, would 

be criminal in the new version of the system in Alaska.

Mr. Horton. The Commission would coordinate tha t balance 

as well as including people from the outside. There may, for example, 

be a leading lawyer, leading economist, leading environment scientist. 

It might reflect a view much broader than simply what you might 

find in representation from the Federal Establishment.

These are the two points for consideration, without a decision having 

been reached.

Senator Gravel. Fine, we will wait and see the selection and try 

to assess the amount of balance.

Mr. Horton. It has not been made at this time.

Senator Gravel. Good. Then I would just press upon you again 

my letter and the thought and parallel I have drawn between the 

Federal Field Committee and what you have evidenced as your views 

to similar composition. The Governor was automatically a member and 

now the Secretary selected yourself. The State government has 

appropriated $200,000. I am distressed and chagrined to notice tha t 

there is no similar effort to the Federal side to put forth any money

76 -0 2 1— 72 ------ 2
8

at all. We follow very vigilantly the hearings before the Appropriations 

Committee, ami there is nothing put through for 1972 or 1973. How 

are you going to get paid?

Air. Horton. That has been a personal interest of mine, Senator.

Senator Gravel. It is with that in mind tha t I asked the question.

Mr. H orton. We are working with OMB and OMB will be working 

with both Appropriations Subcommittees on this. It was a matter 

of balancing the appropriations authorized for the State with the 

Federal Government.

If my reading is correct, it must be in like amounts. There will be 

a supplemental before the Congress, certainly in the very near future.

Senator Gravel. We can assume tha t you will be funded by-----

Mr. Horton. Hopefully by the supplemental and a normal appropriation in 1973.

Senator Gravel. Is there any specific reason why the delay took 

place in Interior?

Mr. Horton. I think there is a very valid reason, and that is it 

was uncertain as to which Federal agency had the leading role in 

establishing the Commission.

If the President had nominated someone from outside of Interior, 

then it is not altogether clear tha t the responsibility would have 

fallen to the Department of Interior. So it was a ma tter of waiting till 

we knew who the President would nominate.

Senator Gravel. In the competition of the Commission, I don’t 

know your background, let me just pose a question. Were you involved 

to any degree politically prior to this?

Mr. Horton. Yes, sir; 1 was. I was executive director of the 

Wyoming Republican Party and I served in that, capacity part time, 

continued with other responsibilities on our family ranch.

Senator Gravel. Certainly in that, it is a plus from a personal 

point of view. But the reason why 1 ask is because 1 want to stress 

one thinsr.

One of the greatest successes of the Field Committee was it being 

made up of nonpolitical activists, Mr. Joe FitzGerald, and other 

distinguished members of tha t group, who had no prior political 

experience. They came to the scene as professionals.

I wonder if the Commission, because of its lucrative salaries, might 

fall heir to what is called in political terminology, and some politicians 

and some elected officials look upon the courts with this type of cynical 

derision, it is unfortunate but they use the term, “a political dumping 

ground” , to reward certain political activists.

Is there any danger to this happening to this Commission?

Mr. Horton. If my judgment and knowledge of the proposals for 

the structure of the Commission and the people that might fill certain 

categories is at, all correct, your worries are without any basis whatsoever. There is no political discussion going into the composition of 

the Commission.

Senator Gravel. I hope that is the case and I think in your case 

your activity with Interior, certainly your knowledge of Alaska, your 

activities in the pipeline mitigate against the charge being rendered 

in your case, but I can assure you I will be very diligent in the examination of the other appointees to see this trend is not established, to 

be either looked upon as an award to political activists or looked upon 

as a punishment since Alaska is far away and some people equate it 

with Siberia.
9

Senator Hansen. May I say, despite the precedent tha t has been 

set for this sort of activity, the present administration finds, I think 

quite properly, the President has chosen to try to select people competent, qualified to do the job well, and 1 have every confidence that 

there will be no evidence of any political machinations in the operation 

of this Commission.

I would like also to point out to the chairman that, as you very 

well know, and 1 say this only for the record, that under section 17 

the Planning Commission shall, among other things establish a Committee of Land Use Advisers to the Commission made up of representatives of commercial and industrial land areas in Alaska, recreational land areas, wilderness, Alaskan Natives and other citizens.

I think it is important tha t everyone understands what is included 

in the responsibilities and background of those persons who shall 

serve in an advisory capacity to the Planning Commission.

I know the chairman is very well aware of this fact. I would hope 

tha t there is a nationwide awareness that this bill has been very 

carefully drafted, as the chairman knows, and I think it will give every 

opportunity to bring into fruition the sort of planning that will assure 

the very best use being made of all of the lands of the great State of 

Alaska.

Senator Gravel. I can assure my colleague from Wyoming th at I 

am well aware of the fact that this administration does not indulge in 

political machinations of this nature, and 1 do want to give a similar 

assurance in my capacity as a Senator from Alaska that, that the 

adversary method is the best way to guarantee tha t you do not fall 

prey to those machinations, though I know it is not the intention of 

the administration. I just want to give notice tha t I will be vigilant, 

and such machinations might never take place.

If th at threat can act as an aid in precluding the possibility of those 

machinations, 1 think both our causes are served.

Where w ill be the offices of this Commission?

Mr. Horton. The act, as you know, provides that the headquarters 

for the Commission must be in Alaska. I have not discussed with 

Governor Egan where the best site would be. My personal opinion is 

tha t Anchorage provides a very central location, and I would press 

upon him personally tha t the offices of the Commission be there.

Senator Gravel. You have a good choice. It is my home and I am 

happy to get you as a constituent of mine.

Do you have any idea at all as to what areas the Federal Government 

will have interest in protecting its interest?

Mr. Horton. Certainly. Between the March 17 date and the 

September 18 date, which is the deadline for withdrawing certain 

areas under section 17(d)(2) for parks, refuges, scenic reservations and 

forests, an early consideration of the Commission will be to advise 

the Secretary as to the best lands up to 80 million acres, that he might 

withdraw for proposals to the Congress for creation in these four 

systems. B ut this is not to say tha t the Commission itself will have a 

prejudice only toward tha t one particular assignment. But the 

assignment has a calendar deadline dictated by the act, ami it would 

have to have early attention given to those 80 million acres.

Senator Gravel. Obviously, with the Federal selection and already 

the State selection, would you view your role on the Commission as a 

role of sort of negotiating out the compromises?
10

Mr. Horton. Well, the State is equally well represented on the 

Planning Commission, at least as provided by the act, as the Federal 

Government. Whether it acts as an arbitrator between the Federal 

and State establishments or acts as an independent body advising 

each equally, it is uncertain to say until we have a Commission 

established and confer among ourselves, but certainly the recommendations of the Commission will be fully public, as they must be.

Senator Gravel. One of the views in drafting the amendment, and 

T would hope that this could act as some guideline for you, I personally 

did view this as a vehicle for negotiation, which would not be of a 

normal nature, but would be of participants and people knowledgeable 

about the various problems on the Federal side and State side and to 

get involved in the day to day negotiations, and then the advice given 

would be advice in totality, which would be similar to a fait accompli, 

which would be normally established by the two establishments.

So I would commend to you that possibility, which I would sincerely 

think depends upon the degree of initiative of the two leaders on the 

Commission.

Mr. Horton. And the composition of the Commission.

Senator Gravel. Yes, I think yourself and the Governor should 

show some good initiative in this regard. I think it would save a lot of 

mashing of teeth and expiration, because of your good offices and those 

of the Governor. I know the Governor personally and he has a great 

sense of compromise.

Mr. Horton. That is one of the great hopes of the Commission, 

that it can provide that service to the State and to work these out, 

but when the deliberations are completed, the recommendations will 

be formally delivered and available for anyone to see.

Senator Gravel. Prior to formal recommendations, you do envisage holding hearings?

Mr. Horton. Very definitely.

Senator Gravel. How large a staff do you contemplate taking on?

Mr. Horton. My personal preference is a small but very high 

caliber staff, but it will depend, of course, on the appropriations made 

available. It will depend on our discussions with Governor Egan and 

his people.

Senator Gravel. Of course, one of the areas of expertise tha t you 

have developed and certainly most important for Alaska at this point, 

is the trans-Alaska pipeline. I wonder if you could give us any enlightenment as to what would be the relationship with your new 

position and the on-going activity of the effect of the pipeline in 

Alaska?

Mr. Horton. Yes, I will have no further relationship whatsoever 

with the pipeline once I have been appointed. I would no longer be 

Depu ty Undersecretary of the Interior. I would obviously retain close 

relationships with the Department as the Commission proceeds, but 

I would certainly sever any commitments that I now have with 

my internal responsibility in the Department. It is our judgment now’ 

that we should have the environmental statem ent on the pipeline 

completed and made public one week from today.

Senator Gravel. But certainly your position as head of the planning 

section of the Federal Government for Alaska, and the pipeline being 

the most significant industrial commercial endeavor in Alaska, if not 

in the world, of this nature, you just can’t divorce yourself from it.
11

You will be in it up to your eyeballs, whether you like it or not.

Mr. Horton. To the extent that 1 can divorce myself, Senator,

1 would assure you that I will. 1 would also point out tha t the acreages 

for the proposed pipeline is something in the area of 40 square miles, 

and the S tate of Alaska occupies 365 million acres. My responsibility 

must be considerably broadened to include the charges of the Commission. The experience tha t I have gained through our analysis of 

the pipeline has been enormously valuable in the sense of understanding Alaska and its environmental problems. But I would not myself 

envisage any formal relationship between my cochairmanship on the 

Commission and affairs of the pipeline, except as they might relate 

to land planning in Alaska.

Senator Gravel. I was instrumental in getting a $500,000, along 

with my colleague Senator Stevens, a $500,000 addition to the BLM 

budget for land planning for the pipeline. Has tha t money been 

expended and, if so, was it expended under your authority?

Air. Horton. Yes, to make sure tha t we identify two issues here. 

The appropriations for our analysis of the proposed pipeline is completely different than the $350,000 that was made available to the 

Bureau of Land Management for land planning.

As you know, there is now a joint Federal-State planning team 

in Anchorage of 15 to 18 Federal employees, and I think, six to eight 

State employees t hat are now composing what will hopefully be the 

staff of the Commission.

Senator Gravel. Were you related in any way to this $350,000?

Mr. Horton. It was my proposal, if there were any doubt tha t the 

Congress might not act bv creating a land use planning commission 

or committee, tha t we take the necessary steps to establish withinhouse and within the Federal Establishment, some planning effort. 

So I have been a strong advocate of the creation of a planning unit.

This has been underway since September. The Federal and State 

people are working very closely. In fact, a great deal of our resource 

information on which we base the decisions that the Secretary will 

announce Wednesday, was derived from the very excellent work tha t 

the planning team had done.

Senator Gravel. They only used $350,000?

Mr. Horton. Tha t is the appropriation on an annual basis.

Senator Gravel. 1 was sure the authorization was for $500,000.

Mr. Horton. We requested $550,000. It is my understanding 

we received only $350,000, but I can correct that and I certainly 

will correct it for the record if I am in error.

Senator Gravel. If there was an amount that has lapsed, is it 

possible tha t can be brought under your activities for some extra 

funding, so we can accelerate the amount of planning taking place?

Mr. Horton. We are examining that possibility now. We haven’t 

reached a decision. I am hopeful that will be done.

Senator Gravel. Very good.

We have the stipulations. What will be issued next week by the 

Secretary?

Mr. H orton. This will be the sixth volume of the final environment 

statement required by the National Environment Policy Act. In three 

other volumes, the economic and security analyses, there will be 

three volumes in that. There will be a total of nine volumes in our 

overall analysis. In one of these volumes will be included the stipulations for the proposed system.
12

Senator Gravel. The stipulations have already been released?

Mr. Horton. They have been released for review by the Federal 

task force, but until this review is complete and until we have some 

comments back from them, it won’t be ultimately complete. But they 

are complete as far as the Department of Interior is concerned.

Senator Gravel. Once we have the stipulations and the statement, 

what remains as a deterrent to the Secretary issuing a permit and. 

from your knowledge, if they are going to issue this statement next 

week, does the Secretary feel that we can go ahead now and issue a 

permit, or does the statement frighten him sufficiently so that he might 

not want to issue a permit?

Mr. Horton. Following the release of the document next Monday, 

the nine volumes, and the accompanying studies, transcripts of the 

hearing, et cetera, the documents will be filed with the Council on 

Environmental Quality for a 30-day review period, and the Secretary 

has not determined at this time what his future course of action will 

be.

He has indicated tha t he will use the documents for discussions 

within the administration. He has not reached a decision at this time 

as to future action on the permit request.

Senator Gravel. So nobody has made up their mind whether or 

not-----

Mr. Horton. There has been no decision on the proposal for the 

trans-Alaskan pipeline at this time.

Senator Gravel. Is that based upon the fact that they are waiting 

for these comments from the Environmental Commission?

Mr. Horton. No, it is based on w hat is certainly the requirement of 

the National Environmental Policy Act, tha t no action be taken until 

this statement be completed. Until a week from today it will not be 

completed.

Senator Gravel. There is what, 30 days in which to act?

Mr. Horton. T hat’s right, but during that 30 days a very necessary 

consideration is public review. Of course, th at is set forth in the guidelines.

Senator Gravel. What can the public do when they review it?

Mr. Horton. They will have 30 days in which to comment if they 

so desire.

Senator Gravel. What happens to their comments?

Mr. H orton. If they are sent to us, certainly the comments will be 

taken under consideration as to future course of action.

Senator Gravel. Future course of action could be approval or 

nonapproval?

Mr. Horton. Th at’s right.

Senator Gravel. Would there be a possibility to open up hearings?

Mr. Horton. That is certainly a possibility. 1 think the Secretary is 

waiting to see the comments, waiting for the results of his discussions 

within the administration before he determines the best course of 

action to take.

Senator Gravel. So under your time scenario, the 15th of the 

month, it will probably be around the 20th of this month and then by 

the 20th of April we should have a decision made b\ the Federal 

Establishment with respect to the pipeline?

Mr. Horton. Certainly within that month there should be some 

decision announced from the Secretarv of the Interior.
13

Senator Gravel. Could 1 press upon you again that the pipeline 

and the construction is only one activity. The interest to he created 

in the land along the way would certainly warrant a great deal of 

planning, planning related as it traverses the entire State, so I would 

hope that you would not extricate yourself from the continuity of 

this activity and use your expertise as now cochairman and the 

knowledge you have acquired, to maintain a hand in this planning 

effort.

Mr. Horton. But it is important that my mission and responsibility 

with the Commission relate to planning of the entire State. But 

certainly transportation quarters and utility quarters are important 

facts of any land planning mission, as the Congress recognized in 

allowing the early withdrawal of the utility quarter to the north 

slope which has been done.

Senator Gravel. I would predict, your responsibility lies to the 

entire State and more importantly to the Nation, hut I would say 

that were the land planning activities associated with the pipeline 

unsuccessful, your tenure of office would he a total failure, regardless 

of how successful you are with everything else.

Mr. Horton. I understand your concern, Senator.

Senator Gravel. Do you feel your activities as a possibility of 

suggesting legislation tha t might he implemented to facilitate activities 

within the State of Alaska?

Mr. Horton. Yes, and I believe one of the requirements of the 

Commission is to do just that, to advise the State on those types of 

possibilities.

Senator Gravel. I believe I have covered all of the (piestions I 

have.

We will leave the record open for anybody who might want to include statements.

Senator Buckley. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask one final 

question, if I may?

It seems to me tha t a third party tha t might be involved in the 

land use planning, do you contemplate cooperation or your beginning 

cooperation between the Commission and other authorities, such as 

the Canadian authorities?

Mr. Horton. My personal response clearly prior to the meeting of 

the Commission, is strongly yes, tha t land planning in Alaska has 

very definite long-range im portant implications for close relationships 

with various Canadian authorities, and we have that, internally, under 

definite consideration.

Senator Buckley. Thank you very much.

What prompted my question is I have been following for some time 

the proposal for an International Arctic Wildlife Preserve.

Mr. Horton. Yes, there are 8.9 acres. There have been informal 

discussions for the possibility of extending that into Canada. You 

are aware that Canada created a new park tha t would abut the 

Canadian-American boundary and there are certainly possibilities 

for extension of parks, or refuges, or land for other purposes. These 

things are very definite possibilities.

Senator Gravel. That is an excellent point you brought up. I 

would personally think that you would enhance your activities in 

the job done for Alaska and the N ation with a closer cooperation with 

the Canadian Government, not only on the Federal level, but certainly
14

on the provincial level with the officials of the Yukon Territory. I 

think you would find them very accommodating, very friendly, and 

very useful in developing an attitude that would bring about some 

definitive results. So I think that is an important consideration.

If you must coordinate it with State, the Department of State, 

in this area—1 don’t know precisely how the activities could take place. 

J know in my occasion I go there and visit with them. I would hope 

tha t you could do similarly and not rely upon the formalities of State.

Mr. Horton. 1 see no reason at all why informal negotiations or 

discussions with any Canadian governmental body could not go ahead. 

Certainly anything formal that might be ratified must include the 

State Department, hut I don’t see this as being any major hurdle to 

get across. It is a matter of using intelligence and common sense, 

about what our objectives are and the best routes to get there.

But certainly anything of a formal nature, the State Department 

must be closely advised.

Senator Gravel. The executive session is scheduled for Wednesday. I would appreciate it if you would hold yourself available to the 

committee on Wednesday in case we have some personal questions 

to ask you.

If there are no further questions, this committee is adjourned.

We th ank you very much.

(Whereupon, the committee was adjourned at 11 a.m.)