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IN TERIO R N O M IN A T IO N

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GOVERNMENT

BEFORE THE

Storage COMMITTEE ON 

INT ERIOR AND INS ULAR AEEAIRS 

UNITE D STATES SENATE

EIGH TY -SE VE NT H CONGRESS

FIR ST SESSION

ON

THE NOMINATION OF JAMES K. CARR, OF CALIFORNIA, 

TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR

JANUARY 26, 1961

Pri nte d for the use of the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs

64848

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1961
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COMMITTEE ON INT ERIOR AND INSULAR AFF AIR S

CL IN TO N P. AN DE RS ON . New Mexico. Cha irman

IIEN RY M. JACK SON, Washington

ALAN BI BL E, Nevada

JOHN A. CA RR OL L, Colorado

FR AN K CH URC H, Idaho

ERNES T GRU EN IN Q, Alaska

FR AN K E. MOSS, Utah

OR EN E. LO NG , Hawaii

QU EN TI N N. BU RD IC K, North Dakota

LE E M ETCALF, Mon tana

J. J. HIC KEY , Wyoming

HENRY DW OR SHAK , Idaho 

THOM AS II. KUCIIE L, California 

BA RR Y GO LD WAT ER , Arizona 

GO RD ON AL LO TT , Colorado 

HI RA M L. FO NG , Hawaii 

JA CK R. M IL LE R, Iowa

Richard L. Callaghan, S ta ff Director

Nell D. McSherr t, Clerk

Stewart French, Ch ief Co unsel

II
NOMINATION OF JAMES K. CARR TO BE UNDER

SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR

THU R SD A Y , JA N U A R Y 26 , 19 61

U.S. Senate,

Committee on I nterior and Insular Affairs,

H ashington, D.C.

The committee met, purs uant to call, at 10 a.m. in room 3110, 

Senate Office Building, Senator Clinton P. Anderson (chairman of 

the committee) presiding. Present: Senators Alan Bible, of Nevada; John A. Carroll, of 

Colorado; Frank Church, of Idaho; Ernest Gruening, of Alaska; 

Frank E. Moss, of Uta h; Oren E. Long, of Hawaii; Quentin N. 

Burdick, of North Dakota; Lee Metcalf, of M ontana; J. J. Hickey, 

of Wyoming; Henry Dworshak, of Idaho; Barry Goldwater, of 

Arizona; Gordon Allott, of Colorado; Hiram L. Fong, of Hawaii; and 

Jack Miller, of Iowa.

Also present: Richard L. Callaghan, staff director.

The Chairman. The committee will be in order.

Today we take up the nomination of James K. Carr of California, 

to be Under Secretary of the Interior. Senator Engle has expressed 

a desire to introduce Mr. Carr.

Before you start, Senator, we will place the background biographical 

record sent to us by the Department into the record at this point.

(The biographical background referred to follows:)

B io g r a p h ic a l R £ su m£ o f J a m es K. C a r r

Age: Forty-seven years. Born Jan uar y 15, 1914, Redding, Calif.

Married: Katherine Kergan of Piedm ont, Calif., October 14, 1939. Children: Four dau ghters—Mary 20}£, Ann 18, Susan 1 (%, and Margaret 15}£. Son of the late Francis Carr, of Redding, northern Califo rnia attorn ey and Dem ocra tic leader, and the lat e Mary Kennedy Carr; gran dson of Francis Carr, early-d ay Shasta County attor ney. One of seven children—five boys and two girls. Two brothers killed in World War II, two brothers living: Francis J. Carr, manager, tax departm ent, Pacific Gas & Elec tric Co., San Francisco; Laurence W. Carr, attorn ey, Carr & Kennedy, Redding, Calif. Sisters: Mrs. 

Cla yto n Davis, San Francisco ; Miss Barbara J. Carr, Redding, Calif.

Education

Redding public schools, 1920-30; B.S. in civil engineering, University of S anta 

Clara, 1934.

Employment record

Jun e 1953 to present: Assistant general manager, Sacramento Municipal 

Utility District, Sacramento, Calif. Responsible for public and governm ental rela tions and certain fut ure wholesale power supp ly problems and other special assignments. Agency is a publicly owned electric power agency serving 500,000 people in a 650-square-mile area . Was responsible for planning activities in bring ing dis trict’s $110 million hydroelectric project to the construction stage and 

other special assignm ents.
2 NOMINATION OF JAME S K. CARR

April 1951 to Ju ne 1953: Engineering co ns ul ta nt t o th e Co mmi tte e on In terior 

and Insular Affairs, Hou se of Re presen tat ives. Served un de r ch air ma nship of 

Re presen tativ e Jo hn Murdock and Rep rese ntativ e A. L. Miller. Wo rke d prima rily for Su bcom mi tte e on I rri ga tio n an d Re cla ma tio n; Su bcom mi tte e Ch air ma n 

Re presen tativ e Clair Eng le and Rep rese ntativ e No rris Pou lson .

April 1936 to April 1951: En gin eer an d Adm inist rator, U.S. Bu rea u of Reclama tio n, Ce ntral Valley p rojec t of Califo rnia.

1936-40: Redding , Calif. En gine er on pla nning an d co ns tru ction of 

Sh asta Dam an d related facilitie s.

1940-45: Sacra me nto , Calif. En gine er an d as sistan t to regional directo r 

on proje ct pla nn ing , wate r rig hts , po wer pro blems, an d spec ial assig nm ents.

1945-51: Chico, Calif. Distric t ma nage r. Respo nsible for pla nning , 

constru cti on , opera tio n, an d mainten an ce of Sh asta Da m, Kes wic k Dam, 

Orland pr oj ec t; stu die s on Trini ty Riv er and Fea th er River pr ojec ts; an d all 

budget an d ad minist rativ e ac tiv iti es of th e Burea u for area in no rth ern 

California , no rth of Sacra me nto . Served few week s (1951) in Com missio ner’s Office, O. & M., Wash ing ton , D.C .

1930 to April 1936:

1934-36: Engin eer ing ass ign me nts with Wo r’ s Progress Adm inist ratio n; 

U.S. Geological Su rve y; Sh as ta Co un ty surv ey or ’s office; cit y engine er’s 

office, Re dding , Calif.

1930-34: Summ er jobs du rin g college da ys with Pacific Gas & Electric 

Co., State of Califo rnia Highw ay D ep ar tm en t, an d U.S. Geological Survey. 

Fi rst In terior Dep artm en t job: Ro dm an, survey crew, U.S. Geological Survey, 

Mou nt Lass en, Calif., area, sum me r 1933.

Affiliations

Ch air ma n, Ca lifo rni a Wate r Com mission, 1959-61 ; reg istere d pro fessional 

engineer, Sta te of Califo rnia an d D istric t of Colum bia ; fellow, Am erican Soc iety 

of Civil Engin eers; me mber, bo ard of reg en ts, Un ive rsity of Sa nt a Cl ara; Ro tary 

Clu b; Knigh ts of Colum bus, Sierra Clu b, Sa cram ento Ci ty-C ou nty Ch am be r of 

Com merce; an d ac tiv e in vario us ot he r commun ity activ ities.

The Chairman. Now, Senator Engle, you may proceed.

STATEMENT OF HON. CLAIR ENGLE, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Senator E ngle. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

I am pleased to be able to introduce James K. Carr, of Redding, 

Calif., who has been nominated by President Kennedy for the post of 

Under Secretary of Interior.

k My pleasure stems equally from the fact tha t he is a man whose 

life has been devoted to conservation and development of natural 

resources, tha t we have been associated on various occasions in past 

years, and, finally, that he has long been a highly valued friend.

A graduate of Santa Clara University of California with a degree in 

civil engineering, Mr. Carr went to work as an engineer on Shasta 

Dam at the sta rt of construction in 1937. By tha t time he had 

already worked for the Works Progress Administration and the 

Department of Interior—the latter as a rodman with a U.S. Geological 

Survey crew at Mount Lassen.

P Joining the Bureau of Reclamation as a staff member in 1936, later 

becoming assistant to the regional director in 1940 and a district 

manager in 1945, he helped plan and construct portions of the Central 

Valley project and directed the continuing program for Shasta Dam, 

Keswick Dam, and other projects and directed initial planning on 

Trin ity and Feath er River projects.

In 1951 Mr. Carr was appointed engineering consultant to the 

House Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, of which I was
NOMINATION OF JAM ES K. CARR 3

chairman. In 1954 he resigned tha t post to become assistant general 

manager of the Sacramento Municipal Utility District. Until just recently he has been chairman of the California State Water Commission, in which post he has been coordinator of the irrigation, power, and flood control programs of the State of Cali­ fornia, working with the Federal Bureau of Reclamation and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, both in Washington, D.C., and in 

California. Mr. Carr’s work has not been confined to water and power. He is a native of northern California, a center for lumbering, mining, fishing and hunting, and recreation. He took the lead in pushing the reforestation program for the Keswick Dam area, for example. He has been publicly commended for his work on the release of fish in the American River. He drafted recreation plans for the Sacra­ mento Municipal Utility District reservoir on that river. Mr. Chairman, I give Mr. Carr my unreserved endorsement and recommendation, and I hope tha t he will have your favorable 

consideration. I thank you for this opportunity to introduce him.

The Chairman. Senator Dworshak has a state ment from Senator 

Kuchel, who is unable to be here today.

STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS H. KUCHEL, A U.S. SENATOR

FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, PRESENTED BY SENATOR

DWORSHAK

Senator D worshak. I would like to read his statement at this 

time. [Reads:]

I am delighted to give my strong endorsement to James K. Carr, chairman of the California Water Commission, for the position of Under Secretary of the 

Department of the Interior. I have known Jim Carr for 25 years as a friend and as a dedicated public servant. He is a recognized authority on problems of water development, irri­ gation, reclamation and projects planning, construction, operation, and maintenance. He has been actively engaged in this field since his first job as a rodman for the Interior Department in 1933. Since that time he served on every level of govern­ ment—local, State, and Federal. Californians are proud of his accomplishments as assistant general manager of the Sacramento Municipal Utility District. Since June 1953, he was directly responsible for the planning activity which brought the district’s $110-million hydroelectric project to the construction stage. He will do the same sort of dynamic, progressive job for the Nation tha t he has already performed for the State of California. He deserves the full support of the 

U.S. Senate.

The Chairman. Do you have any statement, Mr. Carr?

STATEMENT OF JAMES K. CARR, UNDER SECRETARY 

OF INTERIOR-DESIGNA TE

Mr. Carr. Mr. Chairm an and members of the committee, I have submitted my biographical information as requested by your clerk. I have no prepared statement. I have had some questions and have seen reports tha t some Members of the Senate are interested in 

conflicts of interest. I would like to say at this time that I have no stocks, no applications for oil leases, or any other applications before the Department, or
4 NOMINA TION OF JA MES K. CARR

any ownerships that I think would constitute a conflict of interest 

with the activities of the Department of the Interior.

I come here without a prepared statement, ready to answer any 

questions you may have.

The Chairman. Mr. Carr, there is another conflict of interest tha t 

is not monetary tha t goes on around here. When an announcement 

was made that the Secretary of the Interior might come from Arizona, 

1 got a flood of telephone calls from people in California reminding 

me they were in litigation with the State of Arizona and wanted my 

help to see that the Under Secretary came from California so tha t 

Arizona couldn’t gouge California.

The upper basin is in constant controversy with the lower basin. 

My question is: What is your position on that?

You understand tha t the four upper basin States, States of the 

upper division, have some interest in the water of the Colorado River, 

as well as the lawsuits between California and Arizona to divide up 

the spoils of the lower basin.

Mr. Carr. I can make this assurance to you: that I will try to be 

just as fair as I have tried to be in the past. In connection with the 

upper basin project, you will be interested to know that some of my 

own California friends felt that I was not exactly looking after the 

interest of the State because in February of 1956, I think, when the 

hill was on the House side for the upper basin development, I was one 

of those who took issue with certain southern California interests tha t 

were attemp ting to block the project, saying th at if you had the water 

rights then the upper basin should be able to develop their projects, 

sound projects, if they were found feasible, on the same basis as any 

other State in the Colorado River Basin.

I know tha t Senator Engle is familiar with that because I was not 

exactly the most popular man in the State at the time, but I think 

that is the fair way to handle it.

The Chairman. I will say that I do remember th at and I do regard 

that as a very impressive recommendation for you. I only want you 

to remember tha t the controversy is not between jus t California and 

Arizona.

Th at brings us to the question of the filling of the Glen Canyon Dam. 

The filling criteria there can destroy the program of the upper States 

if adopted.

Have you given any study to that?

Mr. Carr. I have not studied those criteria yet, Senator.

I am informed that the criteria have not been adopted by the Departm ent. There have been some recommendations prepared. 1 

discussed the matter very briefly with Secretary Udall and we will 

give it thorough consideration to see th at it is fair to all parties concerned.

The Chairman. You do recognize tha t a filling criteria which is 

designed to protect solely the power users under Hoover Dam could 

destroy the rights of the people in the upper basin States?

Mr. Carr. Yes; I realize that the filling criteria will affect the 

upper basin States. I do not know enough about it ye t to know tha t 

the criteria weTe designed purely on a power basis. But I know that 

we will certainly take a look at this and see th at everyone is protected 

under the filling criteria.

The Chairman. What else besides power do you think is involved 

in the filling criteria?
NOMINATION OF JAM ES K. CARR 5

Mr. Carr. I got the impression tha t this was the only consideration in preparing the criteria. Since I am not familiar with them to 

that extent, I do not want to assume tha t that was the only criteria 

taken into consideration by the Bureau when they were prepared.

The Chairman. What else do you think it would be?

Mr. Carr. Well, there would be the whole question of whether you 

were protected in the upper basin States, and I would hope that the 

Bureau of Reclamation staff would keep that in mind, too, as they 

set up the criteria.

The Chairman. The whole argument came up over whether or not 

the first use of the water was to make sure tha t all the people who are 

now getting power from Hoover Dam could continue to get it at the 

same favorable rates or whether the water th at is stored for the benefit 

of the fulfillment of the c ontract in the upper basin States is to be-----

Mr. Carr. I realize that is a major factor, Senator.

The Chairman. I do not know of any other factor, do you?

Mr. Carr. I am sure t ha t the Bureau of Reclamation staff, if they 

approached this fairly, would take a look at the desirability of filling 

up stream reservoirs and getting the maximum out of those reservoirs 

at the earliest possible date.

I want to make sure they have done th at before we adopt criteria 

for filling Glen Canvon.

The Chairman. I only want to say, Mr. Carr, that I hope tha t 

your residence in California will not bother you when it comes to 

looking after the rights of the upper basin States.

Mr. Carr. I assure you it will not, Senator. I take this job as a 

representative of the United States.

The Chairman. Senator Bible.

STATEMENT OF HON. ALAN BIBLE, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF NEVADA

Senator Bible. Mr. Chairman, I am very happy to welcome Jim 

Carr as an old friend, a friend of Nevada. I know that they constantly say tha t there is a bit of a tussle between California and 

Arizona, but Nevada has a real stake in this, too. But this is the 

lower basin and we are still scraping around as hard as we can for a 

fair and equitable portion of our water and power from the Colorado 

River.

I know that you are going to be fair in attempting to work out 

many of these problems. We have a real problem in the Glen Canyon 

power area. The marketing area has been created and developed and 

promulgated by the past Secretaries of the Interior. I hope you 

ook at tha t very closely because it does include certain areas in 

Nevada.

I hope that tha t particular regulation is not disturbed. We likewise have some rights in Bridge and in Marble, and I hope that, you 

give that a very, very close look and use your excellent, fair record in 

dealing with these controversial water and power problems.

I am glad to see vou joining the Department of the Interior.

Mr. Carr. Thank you.

The Chairman. Senator Dworshak?
6 NOMINATION OF JAM ES K. CARR

STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY DWORSHAK, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF IDAHO

Senator Dworshak. Mr. Carr, it is a pparent tha t your experience 

has been primarily in the field of irrigation and reclamation. T 

should like to ask you briefly what is your concept of public domain 

and multiple use of it, insofar as power development, mining, lumbering, recreation, and grazing?

Have you any pronounced views on th at subject?

Mr. Carr. Senator, I wouldn’t say that I have firm and fixed 

views other than the fact that I think that we ought to make the 

maximum use of the public domain.

I favor generally a policy of multiple use of our lands. I realize 

tha t occasionally we have to make a determination between what 

might be called strict wilderness area as against recreation on the 

public domain. We have run into some of these same problems in 

connection with our own utility district development in the Sierra 

Nevada Mountains.

I certainly favor a multiple use, and this includes the mining industry, the forest products industry, and others. 1 think we have to 

get the maximum out of these resources, and I believe, talking to 

Secretary Udall th at he and I are very close together on this policy.

The Chairman. Senator Church.

STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK CHURCH, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF IDAHO

Senator C hurch. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman. I just 

want to say tha t I am acquainted with Mr. Carr’s reputation and 

those that commend him to this committee are certainly deserving 

of serious consideration.

I think tha t everything I have known of the gentleman bodes well 

for him and for the new administration.

Mr. Carr. Thank you.

The Chairman. Senator Goldwater.

STATEMENT OF HON. BARRY GOLDWATER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

/ THE STATE OF ARIZONA

Senator Goldwater. Mr. Chairman, I can recall Air. Carr when 

he served as consultant to the House committee under Congressman 

Murdock at the time tha t the central Arizona project ran into very 

strong and finally disastrous competition over there—or I should say 

objection.

I recall he was very fair to his approach to Arizona’s problems. In 

fact, we in Arizona are glad that Jim Carr has been picked for this 

job. We were quite fearful lest a southern Californian get it. His 

coming from northern California, where they have no designs particularly on any of our water, makes him completely acceptable to my 

State. I am very glad to see him here and wish him well.

I would like, though, to ask Mr. Carr if he would give support to 

modernizing the land laws that are so antiquated and badly in need 

of change.

Mr. Carr. Senator, first on your comments, I also want to be fair 

to southern California on this job.
NOMINATION OF JAM ES K. CARR 7

Senator Goldwater. You can forget southern California. That 

would be all right.

Mr. Carr. They are very well equipped to take care of themselves 

at times, I realize. On the land laws, I definitely am aware of the 

problems tha t we have, such as a very difficult problem in Senator 

Bible’s State on the applications to the Bureau of Land Management.

I have already discussed this matter with Secretary Udall. I do 

not know exactly what administrative action we can take right at the 

moment to get these wheels rolling, hut we have so many applications 

in places that we have just failed to keep the wheels turning. We are 

going to get tha t going and then we will be before the Congress for 

assistance in some sort of modification of the land laws. But we are 

not prepared at this time to say just what steps we should take.

Senator Goldwater. I have several bills in to modernize the land 

laws under which BLM operates. I think this is a problem that is 

common to all Western States. As you know, Secretary Seaton suspended all desertland entries. I think he did this rather hurriedly. 

I think he could have administratively taken care of some of the 

problems.

But in the desertland entry section of our laws we do need modernizing. I am very hopeful tha t one of the first things you do when you 

get in is to work with Secretary Udall to the end tha t some of these 

bills tha t are proposed—and I am not the only author of bills pertaining to this—can have your prompt review and reporting so tha t 

we can get on with this.

The suspension of desertland entry has worked a very serious hardship to my State and, I am sure, to California, and I know Nevada. 

We in the West tha t have as high as 86 percent of our States owned 

by the Federal Government have to have some relief in the area of 

land.

Again, I hope that your attention will be directed to this primarily. 

When we get to the subject of Arizona and California water, we can 

talk about t hat also.

Mr. Carr. Thank you, Senator. I would jus t like to say that this 

was, I think, the first subject tha t Secretary Udall talked to me about 

when he asked me to come to Washington to consider whether I would 

take this job, and he pointed out the difficulties in this area, wanting 

to acquaint me with them.

I would like to emphasize, and Senator Engle knows this from his 

beating me over the head many times when I was in the Interior 

Department and late r with his committee, that this is a Government 

of separate powers. We will certainly look to the Congress for the 

basic policy tha t we are to follow.

I will endeavor, where there are questions, to have the policy determined and interpretations made by the Secretary and carry those out. 

Should I find that my own personal opinion and arguments do not 

prevail, I will accept what I am told to do as Under Secretary.

If it ever gets to the point where my personal feelings are so strong, 

where I cannot work on a real team and carry these things out, I have 

one alternative, and that is to go back to one of my other jobs.

The Chairman. If you ever get to where you cannot follow’ the 

congressional intent, you should go to w’ork for the Bureau of the 

Budget.

Senator Gruening.
8 NOMINATION OF JAMES K. CARR

STATEMENT OF HON. ERNEST GRUENING, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF ALASKA

Senator Gruening. Everything I know about Mr. Carr is favorable, and the two very warm endorsements of the two Senators from 

California who know him weigh convincingly with me.

I was very much pleased to hear Mr. Car r’s statem ent tha t he was 

in favor of multiple use wherever possible. I hope that tha t policy 

will prevail.

I also share Senator Goldwater’s view that the land laws need to 

be revised. But apart from revision of legislation, which is a congressional function, I think the administration could be vastly improved. 

Those of us who have lived in a State tha t has been 99 percent public 

domain feel very keenly on this subject.

There is a great deal of reform tha t is needed in the administration 

of the land laws in Alaska. I hope this matter will have your 

particular attention. I shall be very happy to vote for your confirmation.

The Chairman. Senator Moss.

STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK MOSS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF UTAH

Senator Moss. I am happy to see Jim Carr here and to support 

his appointment. I have known him personally for a long time and 

by reputation for a longer time. When he tells this committee tha t 

he will be objective and fair in all tha t he does, I am sure tha t is 

exactly the way he will perform as Under Secretary.

Utah always wonders about California and the water tha t goes 

down the Colorado River, but I have no misgivings about the functioning of Jim Carr in this respect. I am sure he will be fair and tha t 

he will add a great deal of his talents to the administration in the 

Inte rior Department. I am happy with this appointment and I 

will support it.

The Chairman. Senator Fong.

STATEMENT OF HON. HIRAM L. FONG, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF HAWAII

Senator F ong. Mr. Carr, Secretary Seaton in his interpretation of 

the Statehood Act relative to the surplus land tha t will be given back 

to the State of Hawaii stated tha t he believed that that included 

land which was purchased or condemned, including land tha t was 

ceded. I do hope that you will follow tha t same interpretation of 

Mr. Seaton’s.

Mr. Carr. Senator, this is an area where I must admit I am not 

acquainted with the subject . I certainly will be giving full consideration to your views as we approach this problem.

Senator Fong. Thank you. I have no questions to ask.

The Chairman. Senator Long.
NOMINATION OF JAM ES K. CARR 9

STATEMENT OF HON. OREN E. LONG, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF HAWAII

Senator Long. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to report tha t while 

Hawaii has both land and water problems, we are not interested at 

all in any conflict between Arizona and southern California. We are 

2,200 miles removed, so it permits us to be entirely impartial.

We are delighted t ha t Mr. Carr has been selected for this important 

leadership in this important field of our life. We are thoroughly 

satisfied and delighted.

The Chairman. Senator Burdick?

Senator Bitrdick. No questions.

The C hairman. Senator Metcalf?

STATEMENT OF HON. LEE METCALF, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF MONTANA

Senator Metcalf. I have little to add to tha t suggested by my 

colleagues, Mr. Chairman, except tha t I welcome Mr. Carr, with 

whom I worked briefly in the House and with whom I have had 

considerable communication in California. I am very happy to be 

able to support his confirmation.

The Chairman. Senator Hickey?

STATEMENT OF HON. JOE HICKEY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF WYOMING

Senator Hickey. Mr. Chairman, I could do nothing more but 

reiterate what the chairman has said with regard to the concern tha t 

my State of Wyoming has with regard to the Upper Colorado and its 

concern with regard to the criteria which has tentatively been circulated at this time. Certainly, I have heard of Mr. Carr by reputation 

and very favorably, may I say.

There is one area in one of the land laws that is of some concern. 

Some 12 years ago 1 was a U.S. attorney in Wyoming, and, on the 

exchange land basis, the State land acquired by the Department, some 

of that exchange has not yet been made, which is detrimental to the 

State, detrimental to the income of the State.

As I conceive it, that has come about because of a lack of getting 

together between the State and the Department and obtaining fair 

and impartial appraisals. I would sincerely hope that in your capacity 

you would work toward getting impartial appraisers to effect the 

exchange of this land which is badly needed.

Many thousands of acres of land are still being held in abeyance 

for more than 10 years because of the fact tha t they cannot agree 

upon who would be the impartial appraisers. I sincerely hope that 

in your administration of the office you will work with the States in 

an effort to effect this exchange. I will be very happy to vote for your 

confirmation.

Mr. Carr. Thank you, Senator. I want to say this is typical of 

some of the problems that Secretary Udall intends to act on. If his 

vigorous leadership in the last 3 days since we reported to work down 

there is any indication, there will be a lot of action.
10 NOMINATION OF JAM ES K. CARR

I am still in the ring, but the hours have been very long and I know 

tha t he has given orders for everybody to be a t their station. He is 

cutting travel to a minimum. You will see action in the D epartmen t 

of the Interior.

The Chairman. There appear to be no further questions. Thank 

you very much, Mr. Carr. It is my opinion that you will be confirmed.

(Whereupon, at 10:35 a.m., the committee proceeded to further 

business.)

IX