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K A N S A S S T A f t U N iV c K S IT Y

H E A R I N G

BE FO RE TH E

COMMITTEE ON

INTER IOR AND INSU LAR AFF AIRS 

s

UNIT ED STATES SENATE

S B p - NIN ETY -SECOND CONG RESS

FIRS T SESSION

= = O ON

= a t h e NOMINATION OF RICHARD S. BODMAN FOR ASSISTANT

= = r~l SECRETARY OF THE INT ERIOR FOR MANAGEMENT AND

BUDG ET

----------------

JU LY 12, 1971

Printed fo r the use of the 

Committee on In terio r and In sular Affairs

65-798

U.S . GOVERNM ENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHING TON : 1971
£i\8 xE.

1

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COM M IT TEE ON IN T E R IO R AN D IN SU LA R A FFA IR S 

HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington, Cha irma n

CLINTON P. ANDERSON, New Mexico

ALAN BIBLE, Nevada

FRANK CHURCH, Idaho

FRANK E. MOSS, Utah

QUENTIN N. BURDICK, North Dakota

GEORGE McGOVERN, South Dakota

LEE METCALF, Montana

MIKE GRAVEL, Alaska

GORDON ALLOTT, Colorado

LEN B. JORDAN, Idaho

PAUL J. FANNIN, Arizona

CLIFFORD P. HANSEN, Wyoming

MARK O. HATFIELD, Oregon

TED STEVENS, Alaska

HENRY BELLMON, Oklahoma

J erry T. Verkler, Staff Director

William J. Van Ness, Chief Counsel

Charles Cook, Min ority Couneel

(II)
NOMINATION OF RIC HA RD S. BODMAN FOR A SSIS TAN T 

SEC RET ARY OF THE INTE RIO R FO R MANAGEMENT 

AND BUDGET

MONDAY, JU LY 12, 1971

U .S . S en ate ,

C om m it tee on I nt er ior an d I ns ul ar A ff air s,

Washington, D.G.

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in room 3110, 

New Senate Office Building, Senator Fra nk E. Moss presiding.

Present: Senators Frank E. Moss (U tah); Clinton P. Anderson 

(New Mexico); Gaylord Nelson (Wisconsin); Mike Gravel (A las ka ); 

Gordon Allott (Colorado) ; Len B. Jordan (I dah o); Paul J. Fannin 

(Arizona) and H enry Bellmon (Oklahoma).

Also present: Jer ry T. Verkler, staff director.

Senator Moss. The committee will come to order.

This is an open public hearing by the Senate Committee on Interior 

and Insular Affairs on the nomination by President Nixon of Richard 

S. Bodman, of San Francisco, for the new position of Assistant Secretary of the Interior whose duties, among others, will include those 

of the present Assistant Secretary for Administration.

Mr. Bodman has been serving as Assistant Secretary for Administration, having been appointed to this post by Secretary Alorton on 

April 1,1971.

Air. Bodman’s past experience will serve him well in his new post, 

for his background includes managing a wide variety of business and 

government administration projects, especiallj’ with large financial 

institutions.

Without objection, I shall direct that the biography of Air. Bodman be included in the hearing record at this point.

(The biography re ferred to follows:)

Biography of Richard S. Bodman

Richard S. Rodman, 33, of San Francisco was appointed Assistant Secretary 

for Adm inistration by Interio r Secretary Rogers C. B. Morton, with the consent 

of the President, April 1, 1971. Mr. Bodman has been nominated by the President for the position of an Assistant Secretary of the Interio r whose dutie s will 

include, among others, those of the present Assistant Secretary for Administration.

A certified public accountant, he "was formerly a pa rtne r in Touche, Ross and 

Company, one of the lar gest inte rna tional accounting and consulting firms. He 

has been directing the firm’s consulting practice in San Francisco and Hawaii 

for the past 6 years. Additionally, he served as cha irm an of the firm’s committee for a ll services to banks, chairma n of the man agem ent services long range 

planning committe, and was a member of the managem ent services executive 

committee governing the firm ’s nationwide managem ent services practices.

(1)
2

A native of Detroit, Michigan, but a resident of San Francisco for the last 10 years, Mr. Bodman is past Chairman of the San Francisco chapter of the management services committee of the California Society of Certified Public Accountants; pa st president of the Planning Executives Institute’s San Francisco cha pte r; and was a member of the national panel of arbitrators, American Arbitration Association. His background includes managing a wide variety of business and government administration projects, especially with large 

financial institutions. He holds a BS degree in engineering from Princeton University and an MS degree in industrial management from M.I.T. He is married to the former Helene Dunn and they have two sons, Taylor, 9, 

and James, 8.

Senator Moss. We are pleased to have Air. Bodman here before 

us today and to have witnesses appearing in his behalf. Fir st, we are pleased to have our colleague, the Senator from Ill i­ nois, Mr. Percy, appear as the first witness and we will ask you if 

you would like to proceed.

STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES H. PERCY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

Senator Percy. Mr. Chairman, it probably is unusual to have a senator from Illinois introducing a native of Michigan who has lived for 10 years in California, but I served on the board in Detroit of the Burroughs Corp, for a dozen years with Mr. Bodman’s father, which dates me, and I have known his family for many years and I was privileged to meet him when he came to Washington and to watch with a great deal of interest and considerable pride in his progress. Senator Griffin could not be here this morning but certainly wanted to send his very best wishes and his firm support to this appointment. As you have indicated, Mr. Bodman has been nominated by the President for the new position of Assistant Secretary of the Inte rior and has been serving as Assistant Secretary for Administration of the Department of Interior since April 1,1971. His newly elevated position will include his present duties, as well as others which he is best qualified to describe to you. A certified pub­ lic accountant, he was formerly a partner in Touche, Ross & Co., one of the largest international accounting and consulting firms. He has been directing the firm’s consulting practice in San Fr an ­ cisco and Hawaii for the past 6 years. Additionally, he served as chairman of the firm’s committee for all services to banks, chairman of the management services long range planning committee, and was a member of the management services executive committee gov­ erning the firm’s nationwide management services practices. Mr. Bodman is a native of Detroit, Mich., but a resident of San Francisco for the last 10 years before coming to Washington. Mr. 

Bodman is past chairman of the San Francisco chapter of the management services committee of the California Society of Certified Public Accountants; past president of the Planning Executives Institute’s San Francisco chapter, and was a member of the national panel of 

arbitrators, American A rbitration Association. Ilis background includes managing a wide variety of business and government administration projects, especially with large financial 

institutions.
3

Most importantly, he is married to the former Helene Dunn, who 

is with us today, and they have two sons, lay lor , 9, and James, . 

They live in the Distric t of Columbia in Georgetown. He holds a bachelor’s degree in engineering from Princeton I D iversity and an M.S. degree in industrial management from M .I .l . Those of us who work closely with the Government, and I might say I am privileged to work closelv with the Inte rior Department as ranking Republican now on the Appropriation s Interior Subcom- mitte, certainly now we need men of his quality and background and experience in Government, and 1 want to commend our Secretary of the Interior, wTho is also here this morning, for giving Mr. Bodman, with his fine industrial and accounting background and experience, such a broad and extended base of experience now in 

the Inte rior Departm ent

Than k you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Moss. Thank you very much Senator Percy. I think you have made a fine endorsement of Mr. Bodman and you have pointed out the experience he has had which would qualify him for the posi­ tion he has been nominated for as well as the position he now holds. In fact, he has been serving in the Department and is already on board and doing a good job, which certainly is a high recommendation for him as well. Do any of my colleagues have any questions to ask ?

Senator Anderson ?

Senator Anderson. I have no questions.

Senator Moss. Senator Allott:

Senator Allott. I have none. Senator Moss. All right, Senator Percy, thank you very much. Our next witness will be the Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Morton, who is here to tell us about the man with whom he is already working in the Department. We will be glad to hear from you, Mr. Secretary.

STATEMENT OF HON. ROGERS C. B. MORTON, SECRETARY OF THE 

INTERIOR

Mr. Morton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the com­ mittee. It is very difficult for me not to, having appeared before this committee several times and having been interrogated by one of the distinguished members of the committee who is unfortunately not here today, talk about $185,000 of planning money for Pyramid Lake, I would like to indicate on the record tha t the money was released 

July 1, 1971.

Senator Moss. The record will so show.

Mr. Morton. Mr. Chairman, it is with a grea t deal of personal pleasure tha t I support the nomination by President Nixon of Dick Bodman to the new executive level IV position of A ssistant Secretary 

of the In terior for Management and Budget. As you know, the position, created by Public Law 92-22 will sup­ pla nt the current post of Assistant Secretary for Administration. The elevation of the post represents a significant advance toward our objective of reducing duplication of efforts among the many bu­ reaus and offices of the Department of the Interior by giving the in­ cumbent the necessary a utho rity to coordinate activities.
4

To achieve this end, the newly constituted position must be in the 

hands of a person with expertise in management and one who has a 

good and quick grasp of the importance of many of the Interior’s 

endeavors to the well-being of the Nation.

In the 4 months tha t Dick Bodman has been with the D epartment, 

in the career-level position of Assistant Secretary for Administration, 

I have come to rely heavily on his judgment and his talent for getting 

things done efficiently and effectively.

In addition, his educational background and other working experience are, to my mind, assets to the position for which he has now been 

nominated. li e has a Bachelor of Science degree in engineering from 

Princeton and a Master of Science degree in industrial management 

from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Youthful though he is, 33, he had been a partner for 4 years with 

Touche, Ross & Co., one of the world’s largest international accounting and management consulting firms.

Dick Bodman has already proven to me his ability to translate his 

knowledge of the management of successful industrial operations into 

a constructive approach to administration and budgeting of Federal 

Government programs. He recognizes the differences and he also 

recognizes some of the problems in common.

I will be glad, Mr. Chairman, to answer any questions. I would like 

to, in addition to those prepared remarks, just say tha t I feel very 

strongly that today, with the problems facing the executive in its 

many operations, we need desperately to bring on board the kind of 

men that Dick Bodman represents.

lie has been exceedingly objective. He has been eager to learn. He 

has not come into the Department tryi ng to change the entire thrust 

of a bureaucracy th at has been established since 1849, but he has been 

very open minded.

He has not been digested or swallowed up by either and I think it 

is a grea t thing for us to see young men who are very successful in 

business, being well liked, to take a year or 2 years, hopefully more 

years, out of their professional life and go into Government.

I think this is something that the Government needs and I also 

think it is something th at industry needs and so with tha t, Mr. Chairman, I conclude my remarks and will answer any questions th at you 

have.

Senator Moss. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.

How will the new position, for which Mr. Bodman is nominated, 

differ from the one he has been holding as Secretary fo r Administration?

Air. Morton-

. I think what we rea lly do is bring him into a policy 

position. He will be equal in ran k and in level with other Assistant 

Secretaries who have administration responsibility and who have a 

policy responsibility in advising the Secretary on administration and 

personnel development.

I feel he is very important in the development of policy. So, instead 

of being sort of a secretariat, he becomes pa rt of the secretariat and 

his wisdom then, I think, is permeated throughout the secretariat in 

a way that is fa r more effective.

I believe we are all better off fo r having this job in a level IV category as opposed to a level V category and the trade-offs th at have to
5

be made and the budget decisions that have to be made before they get 

to the Secretary, I think, will be made in a much more objective departmentwide fashion and much more in keeping with the desire of 

Congress with this job at a level IV than at a level V. I think in tha t particular is where we thin k it will be more effective.

Senator Moss. Is the title of “Management and Budget” roughly 

similar to the Office of Management and Budget which is the first 

function for the whole Government ?

Mr. Morton. I think tha t question should also be asked of Mr. Bodman because he has been in the job, but it is in fact, a job of management and budget. He is th e senior budget officer of the Department 

and also he is responsible for the management and financial control 

systems and data-processing systems, personnel development program s 

for the Department.

So, in effect, tha t is what it is. I think to draw a parallel between this job and the Office of Management and Budget of the executive branch might be a little risky 

because I thin k th eir responsibilities are of a broader nature, but if we 

are going to go toward a “DNR” concept, and hopefully we are, then 

I think there will be more of a parallel between the Office of Management and Budget in a big department like the “DNR ” and the Office 

of Management and Budget of the executive branch.

Senator Moss. Than k you very much, Mr. Secretary.

Senator Anderson ?

Senator Anderson. Have you checked his finance statements?

Mr. Morton. Yes, and also they have been submitted to the 

committee.

Senator Anderson. Are you satisfied with them ?

Mr. Morton. Yes.

Senator Moss. Senator Allott?

Senator Allott. I have nothing to say. You are a very young man, 

Mr. Bodman, to be occupying such a very important position. The 

Department of the Interior, I think, is one of the most complicated 

and difficult Departm ents in tliis Government when you consider the 

diversity of the functions which Congress from time to time has assigned to it.

I would like to ask you this question, Mr. Secretary. The question 

of the chairman touched on it, but it didn’t reach the real thing and 

you know tha t those of us who are interested in the development of 

our country have, at numerous times, have had numerous troubles over 

the years with the Budget Department. I would like to ask this question as to just exactly what function he would have in the De partmen t 

with respect to the ultimate budget recommendations tha t are made 

in the field of reclamation, for example ?

Mr. Morton. Well, I think he will have a great deal to do w ith it 

when it comes throu gh the Department, through the Bureau. Hopefully, by having one senior officer in the Department responsible for 

budget development and following the budget process all the way 

through, as the Secretary's right arm in this area, we are going to be 

able to do a better job over in the Office of Management and Budg et in 

getting our budgets approved and subsequently our funds released.

I don’t think there is any doubt about it; the more professional we 

do our job in developing the budget, the be tter we will be off.
6

But as far as priorities are concerned, those priorities, fo r example, 

between the Bureau of Reclamation versus the Bureau of Land Management, I can assure you th at the Secretary will have a great deal to 

say about tha t and so will the Congress and so we will be following the 

mandate of authorization in creating our budget proposals.

So if there is any fear that we are going to set up some sort of a rbitrary control tha t would defer minimum p riorities at a subsecretary 

level, I would like to lay th at fear to rest. T hat will not be.

Senator Aulott. T hank you very much. I know you thought very 

strongly you needed strength in this area, which you have not had in 

the past and your answer goes to the same general tenor. Thank you, 

Mr. Chairman.

Senator Moss. Mr. Burdick, any questions ?

Senator Burdick. I am sorry I was not here to hear your statement, 

but I will read it.

Senator Moss. Senator Jordan?

Senator J ordan. No questions.

Senator Moss. Senator Fan nin ?

Senator F annin. No questions, thank you.

Senator Moss. Tha nk you very much, Secretary Morton. We appreciate your coming to testify on behalf of Mr. Bodman.

Senator Moss. Now we will hear from the nominee, Mr. Bodman, 

Secretary Bodman already serving as Assistant Secretary for Admin ­

istration and having been nominated now for the position of Assistant 

Secretary of Management and Budget.

You have been before us other times, but we are glad to welcome 

you here again before the committee today. We have your biography, 

which has been made a part of the record.

When you were appointed before, did you submit your financial 

statement at tha t time?

Mr. Bodman. Yes, sir; I did.

Senator Moss. Has there been any significant change since then ?

Mr. Bodman. Not tha t I know of. There was one security sold and 

one bought. I have the records with me and can submit them aft erwards. It was a small transaction.

Senator Moss. We will do that, of course, in executive session in 

examining that.

Now, we would like to hear from you, Mr. Bodman, and tell us what 

you are doing now and what you hope to do in the new job.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD STOCKWELL BODMAN, ASSISTANT

SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF THE

INTERIOR

Mr. Bodman. Mr. Chairman and esteemed members of the committee, if I may, before I sta rt I would like to express my special appreciation to Senator Percy and Secretary Morton who have supported 

me with such wonderful comments I hope I can live up to and also to 

my wife, who is with us here, Helene, who has supported me through 

the years in most of my efforts.

It is indeed the greatest honor of my career to appear before you in 

regard to my nomination by the President as an Assistant Secretary 

of the Interior. I sincerely hope tha t this is bu t my first opportunity 

to work with you collectively and individually.
As you know, the incorporation of the functions of the present Assistant Secretary for Administration into a new Assistant Secretary position subject to presidential appointment with the advice and con­ sent of the Senate is unprecedented in the Department of the Interio r, 

although not in other agencies. I would therefore respectfully submit to you a few of my thoughts regarding this new position and some of the objectives 1 will have 

should the Senate confirm my nomination. The principal functions of the new position will be personnel man­ agement, budget development and review, and the improvement of of the organization and management practices of the Department. While these matters have received faithful attention in the past, the elevation of the position will facilitate stronger secretarial involvement in these vital areas. My objectives are all based upon Secretary Morton’s belief in strong centralized leadership as a means of providing for a high level of accountability to the P resident, Congress and the people. Specifically, I would initiate a program to fur the r long-term excel­ lence in management of the Department’s affairs by placing highly 

qualified and motivated people into responsible positions. In this regard, I would strive to develop improved methods for iden tifying talented people early in th eir careers and developing their 

management expertise throug h training and attention. Second, I would institute improved budgetary policies and re­ porting procedures to assure tha t the Secretary has direct impact on the priority of expenditures and that he is well informed concerning 

performance against budget and plans in the program areas. Third, I would attempt to standardize and make more effective our activities in data processing, management research, auditing, and 

procurement. During my brief te nure as Assistant Secretary for Administration, I have had only enough time to appreciate the enormity of the task of administration in Government in general. Consequently, I have stated my objectives with the best of intentions and with the utmost respect 

for others who have previously pursued similar goals. Gentlemen, I view this appointment as a great challenge and a great opportunity to serve my country. My professional career, as out­ lined in the biographical material I have previously submitted to you, has been directed toward helping organizations improve their admin ­

istrative practices. I look forward to the opportunity to employ this experience in Gov­ ernment service. I would like to add specifically tha t meeting this challenge is easier because of the exceptional leadership qualities of 

Secretary Rogers Morton. It is clear to me th at he has faith in the people of his Department and tha t he is deeply committed to the long-term welfare of the Department and the country. In this regard he has offered the full 

weight of his office in supp ort of my efforts. Again, I appreciate having the opportunity to appear before you today to submit this statement and I am prepared to answer any ques­ tions you may have rega rding my qualifications and fitness for the 

position. Senator Moss. Thank you, Mr. Bodman. We know tha t you have only been serving for a b rief period of time at th e Department and in
8

tha t length of time have very probably just gotten acquainted with the 

duties tha t will evolve upon you, t hat have already settled upon your 

admin istration, but will now be broadened somewhat if you are confirmed for the position which you have been nominated.

In that period of time which you have been serving, have you had 

total access to the Secretary? Are you satisfied with your relationship

Mr. Bodman. Yes; I would like to state tha t one of the most important impressions I have gained since I came is the ease of working 

relationships among the secretariat, under the leadership of the 

Secretary.

Senator Moss. You, in effect, are already serving on the secretariat 

in vour present position, is that righ t?

Mr. Bodman. Yes, sir.

Senator Moss. With the ad ditional job description, the widening of 

your authority, do you feel you will be able to contribute to the administration of the whole Department by coordinating it better, is 

that w’hat you would say ?

Mr. Bodman. Yes, I believe so. I think the principal advantage of 

being a presidential appointee is that the Assistant Secretary for Management and Budget would then have capacity to speak with the same 

level of authority as the other Assistant Secretaries on policy matters.

Senator Moss. Thank you. Sen ator Anderson?

Senator Anderson. No questions.

Senator Moss. Senator Allo tt ?

Senator Allott. I don’t think I have any further questions, Afr. 

Chairman.

Senator Moss. Senator Burdick?

Senator Burdick. No questions.

Senator Moss. Senator Jordan ?

Senator J ordan. I have just one or two questions. Secretary Alorton 

testified in his statement that p art of your new duties would be in the 

area of policymaking. There seems to be a strong-minded cult preservation, a wave of activity, and some members of this cult want no more 

dams and more coal fuel generation, and no nuclear fuel generation, 

no more off-shore leases, no share developments, no leased pipelines, 

and I would ask y ou : Do you have any preconceived notions or any 

alliances with this cult so that you cannot approach these problems in 

the Department of the Interior with an open mind ?

Mr. Bodman. I have no allegiance, alliance or affiliation with any 

parties relating to the Department’s activities.

Senator J ordan. I am glad to know tha t because I think there is 

room fo r all of this. I think we must not close our minds to the balanced use of these resources as the evidence develops.

I am going to ask you the same question I asked when you came to 

to our office because I think i t should be a matter of record. You are 

making a substantial sacrifice financially to work for th e Government 

and why, for the record, would a young man of your ability, of your 

position in the business world, make the sacrifice you are making to 

come to work for the Federal Government?

Mr. Bodman. Aly wife asked me the same question. Between the 

two of us, we answered it satisfactorily. I thin k the first reason is tha t 

in my professional career my entire efforts were to try to become bet-
9

ter capable of advising others regarding how to improve the adminisstrative practices in their organizations. I n that light the o pportunity 

to join the Government and to work in this administrative area is a 

professional opportunity that I just couldn’t turn down. More important, however, I have always felt strongly tha t the citizenry of the 

country should serve when called upon. To refuse to serve when called 

is to abdicate in part one’s privilege to criticize Government. That 

privilege should only exist as long as we are willing to come back and 

serve if we are asked.

Senator J ordan. Thank you. I like the way you answered the questions and I will be pleased to give you my vote.

Senator Moss. Senator Metcalf ?

Senator Metcalf. No questions.

Senator Moss. Senator Fannin?

Senator F ann in. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am very much impressed w ith your background and abilities, or 

evident abilities. Now, you mentioned in your statement what you 

thought would be the principal functions of the new position and you 

state one as the improvement of the organization and management 

practice of the D epartm ent and you also stated improved adm inistrative practice in helping organizations to move forward.

Now, we do have the duplication of efforts in many Departments. I 

do not know if you have become aware, and perhaps are. We are very 

proud of Secretary Morton and Secretary Hardin of the Agriculture 

Department, however, we do have departmental duplication, especially 

with Forestry and the Bureau of Reclamation, as well as various other 

Departments.

I wonder if, in your administrative work which you are doing you 

will be involved in trying to correct the duplicative things tha t have 

been happening over the years ?

Mr. Booman. May I ask fo r clarification ? Do you mean among the 

various d epartments ?

Senator Fannin. Well, in the west, especially, we have had in some 

case dual responsibility of the Department of Agriculture and the 

Department of the Inte rior and in many instances I have seen both 

Departments carr ying on the same work but still not coordinating 

their efforts with each other. I would think with the background you 

have that this would be one of the areas in which you would w ant to 

participate and try to correct this problem.

Mr. Bodman. The answer to your question is I am aware of some of 

the duplication and responsibilities and functions and, yes; I am interested in reducing duplication. No; I am neither assigned nor competent to unilaterally take any action to do so among the Departments.

On the other hand, I have been meeting frequently with my co unterparts, the Assistant Secretaries of other Departments of Government, 

to try to resolve areas with them on a day-to-day level where we do 

have duplication an d overlap.

Senator F annin. And you would be in a position to make 

recommendations ?

Mr. Bodman. To th e S ec retary : yes.

Senator Fannin. To the Secretary, fine. Thank you. I wish you 

well.

Senator Moss. Senator Bellmon?
10

Senator Bellmon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bodman, as I 

read the testimony, the title is Assistant Secretary for Management 

and Budget and it leads me to wonder if yon will be working with the 

Office of Management and Budget ?

Mr. Bodman. Yes; I would like to add this is not a new responsibility of the position. The Assistant Secretaries for Administration in all 

of the different departments work frequently with the Office of Management and Budget in resolving budgetary matters.

Senator Bellmon. This brings me to the question I have. I have 

only been in the Senate but briefly but it strikes me tha t in many 

cases decisions are made by people I take to be very competent generally in the Office of Management and Budget but who have no 

knowledge or competence in policy m atters as they relate to natural 

resources, and I am particularly concerned about the helium decision 

tha t was made, which is a case in point.

The Congress had set up a program and yet it was discontinued 

and I am convinced that it was not done by virtue of a decision of the 

Department of In terior but by the Office of Management and Budget, 

and I will ask you, if your position would have competence to contest 

those kind of decisions and would you be in a position to level with 

members of this committee as to whether or not you are in accordance with the decisions made by the Office of Management and 

Budget ?

Mr. Bodman. If I may clarify my relationship with the Office of 

Management and Budget, first, I am not yet familiar enough with the 

operation of the Office of Management and Budget to comment on 

how they manage the ir affairs or arrive at their decisions. I would like 

to add tha t basically their decisions are arrived at independently but 

with relationship to our Department.

The decision regarding programs in our Department such as that 

and other decisions are not made unilaterally by me. I sit as one member of a budget review committee with other Assistant Secretaries and 

with the Undersecretary and Secretary to review all of the programs.

So my role is only in an advisory capacity. I have no unilateral 

authority. On the matter of the helium contracts, the decisions were 

made before my coining to the Department. I wish I could say I understood better all of the factors that lead to those decisions, but I am 

just not competent to make any comment at this time.

Senator Bellmon. Well, it seems to me there has been a need for 

someone in, I suppose, there is a need for someone down there to let 

the Members of Congress know whether or not the decision that we 

are asked to suppo rt out here are made strictly for financial reasons 

or whether there is proper attention being given to some of the other 

considerations th at might have even greater priority. The title of your 

job is related to budget and I wonder how much is strictly with budget and how much has to do with management ?

Mr. Bodman. A great portion of my job has to do with the budget, 

but I assure you tha t no decisions th at have been made since I have 

been with the Department have been made sheerly on the basis of financial consideration. Xo decisions on programs have been made unilaterally by the budget elements of our Department and I don’t believe that that will ever be so.

Senator Bellmon. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
11

Senator Moss. Thank you.

Are there any further questions?

We will now go into executive session and I ask you to come before 

us there, Mr. Bodman, where we will discuss your financial statement 

which you have prepared for the committee and it will be in the room 

right behind us here.

This concludes the open part of the hearing.

Let me congratulate you and those tha t have spoken for you. We 

haven’t heard a bad word all morning.

We will adjourn then to executive session.

(Whereupon, at 10:45 a.m. the hearing was closed.)

o