59

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida
‘Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs and Criminal Justice

October 14, 1996

Page 6

those reporting illegal activity before drug treatment, 97 percent reported cessation of

that activity during treatment. Furthermore, more than one-third of clients (across all

programs) reported total abstinence from their primary drug during the follow-up

period. Finally. a 50 to 57 percent decrease in indicators of depression was found in

clients across all treatment modalities.”

3. California Drug and Alcohol Treatment Assessment (CALDATA) This study was

conducted by the California Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs (1992) The

CADDATA study was undertaken to assess the efiectrveness, benefits and cost of

addiction treatment in California. Some of the key results of this study follows:

Costs of treating, 150.000 individuals cost a total of $209 million, while the
benefits received during treatment and the first year after treatment was worth
$1.5 billion in savings to the taxpayers. This cost was determined mostly by
decrease in criminal activity.

Treatment for individuals addicted to Crack Cocaine was as effective as
treatment for alcohol problems and somewhat more effective than treatment
of individual with heroin problems.

‘The level of criminal activity declined by two-thirds, The greater the time in
treatment, the greater is the percentage of crime reduction.

The use of substances declined by approximately two-fifths after treatment.

Hospitalizations were reduced by approximately one-third.


25

with 5-year-olds, then we are going to have to wait 12 years to see
if it made any difference. That is a long time, nobody is ever
around 12 years to see. But that is what we have to do.

You cannot use the studies that tracked old system that did not
work to say that we should not try a new system. I think there are
a lot of new ideas out there with people that can work with 5 year
olds and the families of 5 year olds to make a difference. More im-
portantly, I have to wonder, honest to God, what does it say about
us if we do not try. You have to come to court sometime and meet
all these kids and see them floundering, take a look at them and
know that their lives will never be any better than they are right
now and then say, because it did not work before we do not want
te try now. That is a terribly heartless way to look at these chil-

ren.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you, Mr. Souder. Mr. Sanford.

Mr. SANFORD. Judge, I would like to follow up with you for one
more second on this issue of how you hit potential users earlier and
harder. On the hard front, what would you recommend, what have
you heard about, what have you seen that might work or has
worked?

Judge WiLL. Something I would like to see tried here real badly
is not something that you all can do, so I will do this real fast for
you. What I would like to see here is a child in need of services
action that could be filed by a variety of People in the community.
It could be filed by law enforcement, by our HRS people, our juve-
nile justice people, our school district people, people that identify
a young child who is in trouble. We can see them, you know, John-
ny & grabbing Jimmy on the rear end in school or he is beating
up Susie.

Mr. SANFORD. That was pretty normal stuff when I was growing

up.

Judge Witt. I do not mean the playful stuff, I mean the stuff
that is obvious. Any kindergarten teacher you ever meet will tell
you that they know which of those children is going to be in prison
after they have been in that class for 6 weeks. And if we could
identify those children and if we could bring those families into the
school districts to try to provide them some of the help that they
need in parenting that child—identify the problem. Maybe we have
a family full of physical abusers, sexual abuse, substance abuse,
and we do not know that when all we see is Johnny, but when we
get that family in and if that family does not want to cooperate
with the services that are voluntarily offered, then bring that fam-
ily into the dependency system and order them to. That is a system
that I would like to see tried with the younger children, to see if
it matters on the other end. That is the kind of experiment I would
like to see us have a chance to work with.

Mr. SANFORD. Mr. Vose, have you heard of similar tactics that
either could work or have worked?

Mr. Voss. Well, I will tell Pita one thing, this is not the really
young end of the spectrum, this is the 15-year-olds and 16-year-
olds, we have in Orange County—well, it is in Orange and Osceola
Counties, and some of the other counties have done it, it is called
teen court. This gets kids their first bite in the system and it
catches them for minor crimes—possession of marijuana is one of


COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT
WILLIAM F. CLINGER, Jr., Pennsylvania, Chairman

BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York

DAN BURTON, Indiana

J. DENNIS HASTERT, Illinois

CONSTANCE A. MORELLA, Maryland

CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut

STEVEN SCHIFF, New Mexico

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida

WILLIAM H ZELIFF, JR., New Hampshire

JOHN M. McHUGH, New York

STEPHEN HORN, California

JOHN L MICA, Florida

PETER BLUTE, Massachusetts

THOMAS M_ DAVIS, Virginia

DAVID M. McINTOSH, Indiana

RANDY TATE, Washington

DICK CHRYSLER, Michigan

GIL GUTKNECHT, Minnesota

MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana

WILLIAM J. MARTINI, New Jersey

JOE SCARBOROUGH, Florida

JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona

MICHAEL PATRICK FLANAGAN, Illinois

CHARLES F. BASS, New Hampshire

STEVEN C, LaTOURETTE, Ohio

MARSHALL “MARK” SANFORD, South
Carolina

ROBERT | EHRLICH, Jr., Maryland

SCOTT L KLUG, Wisconsin

CARDISS COLLINS, Illinois

HENRY A. WAXMAN, California

TOM LANTOS, California

ROBERT E. WISE, JR., West Virginia

MAJOR R. OWENS, New York

EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York

JOHN M. SPRATT, JR., South Carolina

LOUISE McINTOSH SLAUGHTER, New
York

PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania

GARY A. CONDIT, California

COLLIN C. PETERSON, Minnesota

KAREN L. THURMAN, Florida

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York

THOMAS M. BARRETT, Wisconsin

BARBARA-ROSE COLLINS, Michigan

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
Columbia

JAMES P. MORAN, Virginia

GENE GREEN, Texas

CARRIE P. MEEK, Florida

CHAKA FATTAH, Pennsylvania

BILL BREWSTER, Oklahoma

TIM HOLDEN, Pennsylvania

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland

BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
‘independent?

JaMEs L. CLARKE, Staff Director
KEVIN SABO, General Counsel
Juptr McCoy. Chief Clerk

Bup MYERS, Minority Staff Director

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, AND CRIMINAL
JusTICE

WILLIAM H. ZELIFF, JR., New Hampshire, Chairman

ROBERT L. EHRLICH, JR., Maryland
STEVEN SCHIFF, New Mexico
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida
JOHN L. MICA, Florida

PETER BLUTE, Massachusetts
MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana

JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona

KAREN L. THURMAN, Florida

ROBERT E. WISE, JR., West Virginia

‘TOM LANTOS, California

LOUISE McINTOSH SLAUGHTER, New
York

GARY A. CONDIT, California

BILL BREWSTER, Oklahoma

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland

EX OFFICIO

WILLIAM F. CLINGER, JR., Pennsylvania

CARDISS COLLINS, Ilinois

Ropert CHARLES, Staff Director and Counsel
MICHELE LANG, Special Counsel
IANTHE SAYLoR, Clerk
DaN HERNANDEZ, Minority Professional Staff Member

ap


68

Mr. Dawson. In Seminole County.

Marge and I have similar roles, so I can just take her speech and
move it over here and it would probably suffice. But one, I cannot
read her writing, I was just struggling with that a little bit.

Sitting here listening to the other panels, Mr. Chairman, I would
like to thank you for involving Seminole County and central Flor-
ida in the area. The students I think that came up in panel 2 had
as much information as anyone can provide. In jotting down some
notes, because I ventured away from some prepared statements
based on some of the stuff that we have heard earlier. That one,
prevention is an ongoing issue. The tragedy of the families that we
heard here and the families that kind of generated this type of
meeting, is a tragedy in itself and we would hope in the prevention
side that it does not take that kind of tragedy to get the attention
necessary for prevention.

I would like to commend you on your recent votes that increased
our Safe.and Drug Free Schools:funding. I think that is a step in
the right direction, and again, to be perfectly candid and not to be
offensive, I do not think that prevention needs to be a bargaining
chip. It is an issue that is facing us every single day.

I think part of our prevention programs are very effective, even
as the individuals you spoke with with the past panel, they knew
what they were doing relative to drugs. The information that they
had received in our prevention programs, our early prevention pro-

ams, gives specific information to kids, drugs are dangerous,

rugs are harmful. The part that we are struggling with I think
and the part that we need to make a concerted effort on is how do
we affect that decisionmaking when an individual knows that
something is a risk, they know there is a danger involved, they
know there is.a legal consequence, they know the tragedy it can
bring to their families. They still make that decision. What pres-
sures are on them to make those decisions that are not good deci-
sions. Do we give them the skills to make those decisions? Do we
give them the skills to resist the peer pressure that we know they
face day in and day out?

The availability of drugs, as.the young man indicated, is wide-
spread. The cost of the drugs are coming down. So that indicates
that the availability is there for a wider part of our market, or
their market, and that being our young people.

I think we are as concerned in the prevention side, not dealing—
and again, I am trying not to diminish the issue of the deaths that
were attributed to heroin, but we are as concerned with all use, not
just heroin, not just cocaine, not just crack. We are as concerned
with the young man who may stick his nose into your fuel tank
and. huff the gasoline. We are as concerned with, as Mr. Halbig can
contend to, as the young people that are taking the Freon out of
air conditioning units in the back of your house, and the videoing
that we had of that on one occasion, that one of the individuals in-
volved in that was 13 years old and was pregnant, the effect it has
on that young person and that unborn baby.

our concern is not heroin for heroin’s sake—it is use, it is
gateway drugs. I think one of the other young people indicated
that—and I think you will also find that very few people—and I


719

you are facing in our schools demonstrates very dramatically that
‘we need to go back and look at how we can better define not just
the students’ rights but the rights of the community and parents
and our society to deal with this problem.
again, I think that it is great that Mark Souder and Mark
Sanford, who will be very active participants in the next Congress
on this issue, heard that and saw that, because hopefully we can
come up with some solutions.
But the other thing I would like, and you do not have to do it
today, is give us any other specifics where we need to improve
t——

Mr. HALsic. Do you recall the other night at the summit meeting
where the young lady from Orange County spoke?

Mr. MICA. Yes.

Mr. HaLBiG. Remember when she made the comment that she
could take anybody into any public school system, whether Semi-
nole County, Orange County or across the Nation—you know, our
customer knows what the problems are within our schools. What
we have got to do is do a better job teaching these kids responsibil-
ities, that they have got a responsibility too, to keep our schools
safe. They cannot just put it on our shoulders. These kids know
where the drugs are, they know who the dealers are. But for some
reason, there is a code of silence in public schools. They are afraid
to share, they are afraid to tell. Orange County as well as Seminole
has a hotline number that encourages kids to pick up the phone
and let us know if there is a problem, somebody is hooked on
drugs. It gives parents the opportunity. But you know, our kids
know what is happening within those schools.

Mr. ZELIFF. Does that hotline work?

Ms. LaBarcE. Yes.

Mr. Hausic. Yes, sir. It is powerful.

Mr. Mica. What happened to the tip program, is it gone?

Ms. LABaRGE. Yes, at least in our area, the speak out hotline
does work. We have had guns reported, we have stopped shootings,
we have gotten drug busts in schools, and we have also intervened
in suicidal situations. So as_long as we can keep it up and we can
keep advertising it, more young people will use it, and I think that
is good.

Let me just leave fou with one thought. When we surveyed the
students in Orange County—and we do this every year—the reason
they say they are not using drugs is one that I want us to latch
onto, and that is because they do not need it. They do not feel they
need it because they have direction in their life and they are fo-
cused and they have a Boal to achieve. And yet those that say they
do use, the major problem in Orange County reporting why they
use is because they have to use in order just to feel good. That is
a Bretty sad message. And that is what I think we need to really
look at.

Mr. Mica. Well, I want to thank the panel. Both of the members
who participated in these hearings around the country said that
they had never seen three panels that have so effectively articu-
lated the problem and also identified some of the areas that we in
Congress need to address. So as someone who represents at least
part of this area, I really commend you for just being outstanding,


15

but crack seems to be about the most insidious thing that I have
seen in my lifetime, for disrupting families, neighborhoods, commu-
nities, but more than anything else, just absolutely destroying the
lives of unborn children. .

As we are dealing in our delinquency courts, we are dealing now
with the children who are the children who have been affected
while in the womb by mothers who are addicted to crack. I have
never seen anything like this in my life. I do not have a back-
ground in law enforcement and so it was new to me 5 years ago
to see mothers who would want crack so badly that they would
take it, knowing that it was going to give their child a brain like
jello. But we have those people and we have them in all of our com-
munities. That, however, is not the drug of choice for children. The
drug of choice for children seems to be marijuana, for the greatest

art.

P And in Volusia County, we have kind of a rich mix, we have
urban and rural areas, we have a pretty good ethnic mix in our
county, and we see People from all over the country as people are
coming in and out of Florida in a state-of-flux. If you do not mind—
I do not know much about interdiction and the Coast Guard and
those kinds of things—what I would like to talk to you about are
the kids that I see and what it is that I think might affect them
in some way. Also, I would like, before I even say anything, tell you
that I speak in generalizations. You know, people have thin skin
when it comes to talking about some subjects, and I want you to
know that I know that there are good and bad people in every cat-
egory that I am about to mention, and some people who are
trapped in their circumstances can still do an excellent job, as we
just heard testimony regarding the single mother. So I do not mean
to offend anybody in saying these things.

I deal mostly with system kids. I coach a Little League team and
have for 10 years, but those are different kids than the kids that
we see in our system, kids that have violated the law or who have
been abused, abandoned and neglected. And these are not kids that
you are used to seeing on the news. When we hear the political
rhetoric that surrounds the juvenile situation and what we need to
do to bring the juvenile situation under control, we seem to be talk-
ing about a different group of kids than the kids I see every day
in court. You would get the impression that these are a bunch of
thugs with one eve in the middle of their forehead and slobber run-
ning down one cheek—and they are not. They are regular kids just
like live in your neighborhoods and everybody else’s neighborhoods,
and they are lacking tremendously in an ability to exercise good
judgment.

If we really want them to quit, then we are probably talking too
late. What we really want them to do is to not start. In this ‘effort,
the people that I deal with most often are the people who are in-
volved in the social services in our communities, and not just the
social service, but State departments and agencies, which are given
the responsibility of dealing with children and children-related
problems. And to give it to you in a nutshell, they are grossly
understaffed, they are grossly underfunded, they are grossly under-
supervised, and they might as well not be in place fr. all the dif-
ference that they are making.


74

Mr. SoOuDER. That we be helpful too, if we can get some of the
source documents.

Another thing that is definitely one of the problems when we get
into the analysis of treatment information and that is what con-
stitutes success. Just like what constitutes success in eradication
and interdiction and other—and prevention. Because if you have a
100-percent standard, none of it works.

At the same time, in your written testimony, you have three
studies that demonstrate the problem with this. Your first one says
it is not really conclusive as to what it did. It says all three produce
an equal level of hegativelpositive outcomes and if you got out be-
fore 3 months, it did not have positive outcomes. It would be help-
ful to know a little bit what the positive outcomes are there.

In the second study, it has that there were substantial reductions
in use after 3 months of treatment. Part of the problem we have
is that longer studies are showing—when you hear the figures 80-
percent recidivism, you are really not talking 3 months, you are
often talking longer. And it is one of the reasons we are looking at
drug testing questions at 3 months, 12 months, 2 years, because
what we see is some programs are very effective and some pro-
grams have minimal follow up. And partly, it is whether they are
doing testing and tough auditing during the treatment program
and after the treatment program. If you can get somebody through
a cycle for more than 3 months—then it said one third reported
total abstinence, which means that in that study, 67 percent had
some recidivism. Which like I say, does not mean it was not better
than doing no treatment, it is just that it did not solve it.

And on the third one, it says the second to last point was use
of substances declined by approximately two-fifths after treatment.
Well, the bottom line is if one person out of five was completely
cured, which would be the 80 percent who recede, and the others
just declined some, you could have four of the five going on pretty
much as before and still make a statement approximately two-
fifths after treatment.

These are not overwhelming successes that give a lot of con-
fidence with Federal dollars. At the same time, I am not arguing
that we should cut treatment. But in the other subcommittee, this
one deals with the—this subcommittee deals specifically with inter-
diction—but I am vice chairman of the other subcommittee on Gov-
ernment Reform that deals with HHS, Education. We are looking
at trying next year to get into some more of this kind of data and
figure out the proportionate successes.

Do you want to make any comments?

Dr. CANTLEY. I sure would, I would love to. I think these three
studies were picked, you know, for the ONDCP report because they
are virtually the only nationwide attempts to look at it. That is one
of the biggest problems I think we have got in the system. It is
easy for me to evaluate my program in Daytona Beach and come
to you and say I have got an 80 percent success rate or 90 or 70,
when there is no standardization anywhere in the Nation to really
do that.

So I would encourage you to look at—one of the recommenda-
tions I have is that there needs to be some intensive studies to de-
termine what is good and what is bad, what works and what does


32

in awhile and then I just went full blown right back into drug use.
And I got arrested again and luckily I got stuck in treatment.

I do not think any other treatment center would have done me
any good because a lot of my friends are in treatment, the influence
is there. All the other treatment centers, I do not think they would
have work, because of the intensity of this treatment center. A lot
of parents do not want to put their kids in an intensive treatment
center like this. Because, you know, it takes—my dad goes to treat-
ment, you know, and he gets treatment with being a parent. You
know, because he lost his ability to cope with my drug problem and
being a parent, because of all his feelings about the situations.

I guess I am really grateful for my treatment center and the peo-
ple in it. That is my life, I live as an alcoholic, I go to AA and that
is my life.

Mr. ZELIFF. Carey, how old are you now?

Mr. C. Duryea. I am 18.

Mr. ZELIFF. You are 18 and you have an I.Q. of about 140 did
you say?

Mr C. Duryea. I do not know about that any more, but—{laugh-
ter.

Mr. ZELIFF. Well, let me ask you this, whatever it is, it is even
higher in terms of what your ability is. Do you realize just your
story here today, how much that can help people in getting the
message out, your willingness to have the courage to get up and
talk about it? And I thank you for that.

Let me ask you some advice, because there are people like you
out there, you at some point will have your own family and you
will have your own kids. Picture your son now, 10 years from now,
7, 8, 9 years old. What would you do as a parent, knowing what
you now know as someone who has done drugs and been addicted
to drugs, and the family situation. What have you learned in terms
of being able to discuss it with your son or daughter?

Mr. C. Duryea. Accountability. My parents in my past had so
many feelings about the things I did. I conned them every day into
doing things that they did not really want to do because—I manip-
ulated my dad into letting me go out nights and stuff. I would be
strong with them, I would not let them con me into going out later
and I would not let them con me into—I am a con. That is how
my treatment centers work, I am a con, so I do not let people con
me. I know all the tricks, I pulled them. So I just do not let people
take advantage of me and I would not let my son take advantage
of me because I know that is how I got the best of my dad. It was
my disease talking the whole time. I was a good kid but it got a
hold of me.

Mr. ZELIFF. Did you ever turn to crime at all?

Mr. C. Duryea. Yes, I robbed one of my good friend’s house, just
cleaned out his whole house full of guns. I went in cars, stole every-
thing that I could find.

Mr. ZELIFF. You had to do that because you had to support the
habit, right?

Mr. C. DurYEA. Yes, I had to support my habit and that is all
I cared about, was using drugs. If I had more drugs, people looked
up to me even more.


39

October 14, 1996
To Congressman Mica, Congressman Zeliff, and other menbers of the panel:

My name is Toni Goodwin, I reside at 5256 lake Margaret Dr. #201 Orlando, Fl. Iam
addressing this hearing on betalf of ayself, friends, family, and ey son, Jonathan
“Blondee" Goodwin, as well as all the other teens, young adults, and faailys whose lives
have been destroyed or lost because of the epidemic of drugs (Heroin) now prevalent

in central Florida and elsewhere.

Lan here because our 16 year old son, Jonathan, was with friends at a party one night
and died there. Bloree was the youngest victin yet of an overdose of Heroin and Fohynol.

At the tine of his death, his "so called” friends Lied about the location ani circumstances
surrounding this tragic incedent. 0.P.D. Det. R. Campbell rudely asked only one question
of Jonathan's father, David Goodwin. “How long has your son been doing drugs?" His father
replied, "He wasn't." After that only a cursory investagation was mde. Te results were
nisstatenents in reports, no examination of Jonathan's personal blongings or the car which
weought him to the hospital four hours after his death. Even when one of the few
witnesses questioned, the resident of the apartment where the party occured, stated

that there was alcohol and marijuana in the apartuent the detective did not take the

tine to search that.

What was the reason no effective action was taken against: these “so called” frienis?
Was it because when a person takes drugs, whether mistakenly or not, and dies it is
their own fault and not the persons who provide the lethal substances? No! It is
murder to give, sell or otherwise provide drugs that result in death to any person.
Where are the arrests and convictions in the 27 Heroin deaths that are already part
of this tragedy?

Jonathan was a special person. He vas bright, happy, popular, and full of love for life.
He excelled in sports; soccer, taseball, larate, skateboarding and surfing (his favorite).
Tfecl it is just these sane "good" teens that the drug deals are after, get those

and the rest will follow.

Jonathan did well in school but it was in his freshmen year in Boone Righ School +hat
he began to experience the changes and obstacles which face all teens. Thete are
new friends, partys, faves, peer-presure and experimentation. They try to find out
where and how they fit into a world which is increasingly more choatic and dangerous.
Parents mist face the fact that their “perfect child” is becoming an adult who will.
rake decisions for thenselves, good or tad, and ultimately must be responsible for
them, The challenges are tremendous for both parents and teens even when provided
with a loving stable and healthy hone environment. Drugs effect all faalies.

‘They know no Social, econonic, ethnic, religious or regional boundries.

Me need action NOI! There must be Snasdisie investigations, arrests and co

s: my wie tir
dh related deaths; better legislation to protect Anorica from dnige and trees wo nent
theny more widiy available rehab and family counseling; and DRUG FREE SCHOOLS!

ke cannot afford to loss America's future! It's to late to save Blondee but not to late
for justice. I pray that we here today my be able to spre others the heartache and loss
‘that I have. suffered and our efforts will help to protect all God's children.

Thank you.


64

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida

Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security. International Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14,1996 Page 11

Itis my opinion that a review of the American form of capitalism will indicate that the current
approach is misdirected. ‘The demand side of our capitalistic system stipulates that as long as a
sufficient number of individuals are willing to pay for any product, someone will provide that
product for a profit. Regrettably, not all enterprising individuals have the benefit of our youth and
society as a goal. The American drug problem will not be solved by guards on our borders, ships
sailing in the Caribbean Sea, or by paying farmers in Bolivia or Thailand not to grow source
plants for the processing of illicit drags. While | fully understand we need these efforts, American
policy makers need to realize that some form of drugs will be delivered, if the number of

individuals requesting them are sufficient for profits to be made.

Supply side activities in the drug war will result in users switching drugs when prices escalate as a
result of dwindling supplies. If we are to ever win the war on drugs, more of the battle is going to

have Co be fought on the demand side of the unbalanced equation.

An effective demand side strategy would contain the following elements

«Primary prevention activities that present a consistent message and are provided in all
grades as children progress from kindergarten to graduation. ‘This strategy would
build on the DARE strategy. except that is provided for every child in every grade
level

‘©The current treatment system should be expanded to entice individuals to enter

treatment before their illness progresses to the point that it requires leval intervention


35

tempted, but once they get into the temptation. What | see is that
my daughter, for example, who is not into rock music and who does
not particularly go to parties where there are drugs, it is easy for
her to get all enthused about the antidrug programs. My son
thinks they are a little stupid.

It is hard to reach particularly kids who are hanging around and
have peers who are involved in that. What would we do as parents,
as teachers, as antidrug programs, to try to get to somebody like
you who actually thinks that your self-esteem is coming from re-
sisting authorities. Looking back now, if you were in that situation,
how would you have reached yourself? I mean, you had good com-
ments about the parent.

Mr. C. Duryea. Treatment. I do not think I would have stopped
at that point unless I had treatment. I was thinking about like all
the movies and stuff that I watched in my Past. the gangster
stuff and all that. That was great to me, I thought all that power
thing was so good. I did not even look at the adverse effects of it
and stuff. And I never thought twice, you know, about things that
I did until after they happened.

It is hard to say like what actually I can do, you know, or you
can do. Because there are so many kids out there and it is such
a disease, a cunning, baffling, and powerful disease, that you know,
it is hard to say.

But you know, for me, I can make a difference with one person
and they can make a difference with another person and it spreads
out like that. If I encourage parents to get in treatment and I en-
cour: kids and stop using and I practice spiritual principles in
my life, I am doing as much as I can. So I would encourage like
public awareness on the parents, you know. Parents do not know
what is going on, they have so many feelings about it, they try to
avoid it, shove it under the table, you know. And it does not go
away when you shove it under the table.

Mr. SoupER. As a dad who, when parents are busy, you said you
hope you will change, but you know, when you love your kids and
you do not have much time with them, you hate to have an argu-
ment with them every time you are with them. It is very easy to
try to avoid those kind of arguments. It is very easy to say you are
going to do that, but it is not easy as a dad to actually confront
your children in the limited time off that you have with them and
teenage boys often communicate in about four words max at a time,
“yeah, uh-huh.” It is hard then to want to crack down.

_But let me ask you this question, you said you were great at con-
ning. If your dad had told you you could not go out for another
hour, if your dad had told you and actually disciplined you, do you
think it would have really had any difference?

Mr. C. Duryea. In the beginning, yes, but when my disease pro-
gressed, it would not have mattered, I would have found a different
way.

Mr. SoupeER. So you are saying it has got to be early, because
later on it will not really

Mr. C. Duryea. Yeah, that way or I have to be like totally taken
out of the situation, like I was put in treatment, and then slowly,
you know, put back into society.


67

drink in the home. I think that is a startling fact, that we have
parents who accept the fact that it is all right for their teenagers
to drink alcohol in the home.

Again, as we look at startling statistics, we find out that the par-
ents of today, many of them are the baby boomers who themscives
used drugs, who not only used drugs, but in surveys today, they
tell you that they do not expect to be able to keep their children
off of drugs. Parents who used marijuana, parents who used LSD
are more accepting of the use of drugs by their own children and
less willing or maybe less capable of knowing what to do about the
problem.

Again, as you look at the parents’ influence, we know that par-
ents are no longer talking to their teenagers or to their children
about the dangers of drugs. We know also that parents are not
coming out when you have programs and you talk about drug
awareness and drug involvement. We realize that the parents must
be involved, and as we look at the schools and we examine the risk
factors as to why young veople are using drugs, we know that the
schools have got to make the difference.

You say that prevention does not work or intervention does not
work or treatment does not work. I will guarantee you if we did
not have prevention programs, we would have a greater problem
than we do today.

Within the Orange County Public Schools and other school dis-
tricts, we have drug curriculum in place from pre-K through the
12th grade. We also have programs that deal with classroom teach-
ers making a difference in class meetings and decisionmaking and
coping skills. We work hand in hand with law enforcement, we
work id in hand with the treatment centers, and we work hand
in hand with the religious community. We provide support groups
in our schools for children who are using drugs as well as children
who are children of alcoholics. And we also work in trying to get
the community involved in many of our sponsored programs, in ad-
dition to young people.

I think one thing we have forgotten about is that the young peo-
ple of today are involved in many programs in their schools, Project

reduatio:., Red Ribbon, nonviolence programs, and others.

I know that it is time for me to stop, and I have a very difficult
time sometimes in doing that.

However, I want to point out to you that parent groups are mak-
ing a difference. I have here a family network that is a pledge card
for families who are coming together. And some of the things they
are pledging to do is to provide adult supervision for all children
visiting my home; provide a secure storage place for all forms of al-
cohol if they even have to have it in their home; and also not allow
parties or gatherings in my home unle::: I am there. These are the
type of things that we need.

ain, I urge you, I encourage you to continue to provide fundi:
for Safe and Free Schools, allocated for drug prevention an
intervention programs, and for treatment programs, and a policy of
zero tolerance for drugs and alcohol in any situation.
you.

Mr. Ze.irr. Thank you. Mr. Jim Dawson is ‘am supervisor

of the Drug Free Schools Program for Sanford. Progr Pe


45

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you very much. . .

I think I have taken probably at least 5 minutes in asking ques-
tions as we went along, so I think at this point, I will start with
you, Mr. Mica.

Mr. Mica. Well, thank you.

Again, you really see what this does to our community and I
know some of the families personally. And you wonder, maybe we
do not have all the answers in Washington. I just heard Ms. St.
Clair talk about her situation and I remember going to the House
of Hope annual dinners and hearing the testimonies of the young
people and how their program—just for your information, I do not
think you have any Government money at all, do you?

Ms. St. CLair. No.

Mr. Mica. And they do an incredible job with an incredible suc-
cess rate.

One of the things you said is you did not need Government
money, but there are programs that have helped folks. Maybe you
could share with us, Ms. Goodwin and Ms. Long, your observations
about the secular programs or other programs and what your ob-
servation is and maybe Carey even could comment. What do you
see—we will go with Ms. Goodwin first.

Ms. Goopwin. I think that probably it is true that losing—a lot
of people have lost their faith in God, have lost faith in themselves,
and that does make a difference. If you do not respect yourself and
you do not love yourself, then these things like drugs, they can
come into your life. And we need to instill in the younger genera-
tion that it starts from within, you have to have the power within
to live in this world and to be strong and to be brave and it is very
hard, because they do not get that.

In music, drugs are in, violence is in, it is in music, it is in TV,
it is in schools, it is in their homes in a lot of cases. And so in order
to combat that, we need to try and help them, let them know there
is beauty and love out there. You know, there is another side to
life other than just escape through drugs like Carey said.

Mr. Mica. Was your son in a private program?

Ms. Goopwin. He was just going to counseling, you know, be-
cause he had had—like any teenager, he had experimented, he had
had a few problems. He tried to shoplift something and he went
through court and they put him in a counseling system. You know,
made him—he was going to have to do community service for what
he took, you know, to py that back. And so with doing that, his
counselor said he was doing great, was talking, everything seemed
to be fine. So, you know, as much as I loved Jonathan and I am
so sorry about what happened, and yet I realize that people do not
understand. Like with Rohypnol, the kids take a couple of ruffies,
it is the date rape pill. You do not remember what you do. You do
not have any comprehension of what you are going to do, so it is
easy once something like that comes into you, to turn around and
try some heroin. The combination of the two is just lethal, it is un-
believable. It is not like kids are just smoking pot any more. They
are doing ecstacy, they are doing acid, they are doing ruffies, they
are doing heroin, they are doing coke, they are doing crack. These
are violent, destructive drugs that are out there.


87

It is much easier to regulate rsors and domestic cannabis
groves than it is to regulate luction in other countries.

Second, we must expand on the D.A.R.E. concept, whatever the
cost, because education is the key to driving down the demand.
Education is best received and retained in the minds of the youth
of this country. Do not wait until people are set in their ways or
already have a problem before we try to change their thinking. By
then it is too late.

So just remember, do not give up, follow up.

I thank you.

Mr. Mica. We thank you for your testimony and also for your
service as president of the Florida Narcotics Officers Association.

I would like to recognize next Seminole County Commissioner
Win Adams. You are recognized, sir.

STATEMENT OF WIN ADAMS, SEMINOLE COUNTY
COMMISSIONER

Mr. ADAMS. Thank you. It is a real pleasure for me to be here.
I just have a few comments that I would like to add to the already
excellent testimony that you have received.

As I see it, we have a value system problem in this country. I
can go back I believe to 1962 when whatever the wisdom was to
strip religion out of the schools. Separation of church and State I
think probably is not working the way it was supposed to. I think
that the religious institutions do a much better job of providing a
value system, social value system, to our citizens, than Govern-
ment. That is just a comment of mine.

The other thing, with regard to the drug war, it is an economic
problem. It is a business, it is one of the largest businesses in the
world. As I see it, the demand is a local problem. Given appropriate
resources, the local officials can help solve this problem along with
the people. But on the supply side of the economics, that is a Fed-
eral problem. It is your responsibility to protect our borders, to as-
sure that these types of drugs do not get into our country. As far
as I am concerned, it is a national security problem. If these were
nuclear devices coming into our country, we would probably take
much different tactics as far as Securing our borders. But I look
upon the Federal Government having the resources, the where-
withal, the knowledge, and also the skill to stop the problem com-
ing across our borders.

I think the Federal Government needs to concentrate on the
supply side, let the local officials and local people and citizens con-
centrate on the demand side.

I also think it is important that we stop sending mixed signals.
For example, I read in the newspaper not too long ago that there
was some idea that the CIA was involved in drugs. I believe it was
reported out in California. These type of things, if they are true,
have got to be stopped.

As far as solving the problem with the teenagers, I think you
must get the teenagers involved. Peer pressure among their groups
will probably do more than any parent or anybody else. I recall
when I was growing up in Manatee County, FL, we had one of the
largest gangs in the school, it was called the football team. And no
one messed with our football team. The football team was the lead-


8

I want to know about the battles that you are having here in Flor-
ida that have had recent national attention as well.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you. Mark Sanford, you have been a leader
in the war on drugs in South Carolina as well, and again, I think
what we will do is end up getting a little different perspective, but
a ain, we have a problem that we need to deal with nationally.

lark.

Mr. SANFORD. I came here because John asked me to come, and
he really is—I am a freshman and he has been someone who has,
sort of, guided me through a number of hoops as a freshman, and
so I would just like to thank him publicly for his leadership.

I would like to say it is good to be home. I grew up close to Del-
ray Beach and ran track over at Showalter Field.

would like to say how much I admire you, sheriff, and you,
chief, for what you do on a daily basis. We were talking at break-
fast about the time that I rode with the Charleston police force a
couple of months back, and we were going down a dark alley—
these guys got out of the car. Not only was I afraid to get out of
the car, but I was sort of slumped down in the back keeping my
head down. These guys do that on a daily basis. So I really admire
what you all do because you all are there on the forefront.

And last, I would just make the observation that as real as their
efforts are and as significant as the national commitment is—we
will spend, what, about $15 billion on this effort—as real as those
efforts are, Chairman Zeliff talked about a five-legged stool and I
think that is where it comes back to the difference each of us can
make on this war on drugs. That is, as a parent—I mean, I did not
use drugs because I was loved in the family unit I came from, and
because I knew if I did use them, I would experience something so
far from love that I might not ever forget. And so I cannot empha-
size how much of a difference we can make, whether it is as a par-
ent or whether it is as a grandparent or whether it is as an aunt,
or an uncle. You think about the number of young folks whose lives
we can touch in a positive way that will make a real difference in
the war on drugs.

Anyway, chairman, I thank you for letting me be here.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you very much.

At this point, I would like to welcome our first panel. Start out
with my left, your right, Conrad Santiago, former president of the
Chamber of Commerce of central Florida; Don Eslinger is the sher-
iff of Seminole County; Richard Beary is the chief of Lake Mary Po-
lice Department; Richard Vose is here from the State attorney's of-
fice; and Judge Joseph Will sits on the seventh judicial circuit. We
are honored to have you here, sir, as well.

We thank you all. What we will do is we will have a 5-minute
rule and we will time you, but we will try to be lenient a little bit
either way, but if you would, try to condense and give us kind of
a verbal copy of your full report and your full report will be accept-
ed for the record in full. _

I just got reminded by my feed friend, Mark, it is customary for
our subcommittee to have all witnesses sworn in. If you would
please stand up and raise your right hands.

{Witnesses sworn.]

Mr. ZELIFF. Please be seated and proceed.


REPORT FROM THE FRONT LINE: THE DRUG
BATTLE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA

MONDAY, OCTOBER 14, 1996

House OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY,
INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE,
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT,
Lake Mary, FL.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:11 a.m., in the
Lake Mary City Hall Hearing Chamber, Lake Mary, FL, Hon. Wil-
liam H. Zeliff, Jr. (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Zeliff, Mica, Souder, Sanford, and
McCollum.

Staff present: Michele Lang, special counsel; Chris Marston, leg-
islative assistant; and Dan Hernandez, minority professional staff
member,

Mr. ZELIFF. The Subcommittee on National Security, Inter-
national Affairs, and Criminal Justice will now come to o: .

First, I would like to thank you all for participating in what I
consider to be—we all consider to be probably the most serious
issue facing our country, and that is the effort of our Nation’s drug
war, particularly as combined with crime.

I am very ypleased to be down here at the request of our good
friend John Mica. He has been a tremendous leader in this issue
and been a tremendous leader on the subcommittee. This hearing
is being held at his request and we are very happy also to have
Bill McCollum, the chairman of the Crime Subcommittee, who has
done such great work here, and you should be very proud of both
of these gentlemen, as they are both from this great State of Flor-
i

la.

To my right, far right, Mark Sanford from South Carolina and
Mark Souder from Indiana. We are very pleased that you all could
make it as well.

I would like to say that John Mica has been a leader in this drug
war effort back in the days in 1983 and 1984, when he was a mem-
ber of the U.S. Senate staff when they wrote the Federal law that
denies foreign and U.S. financial aid to countries that fail to stop
drug production and trafficking; and he has been a tremendous
leader in this effort.

I just would like to—before I turn it over to my colleagues, just
say to you about 2 years ago, I took over the chairmanship of this
subcommittee. At that point, no one was talking about the war on
drugs. We had some very courageous law enforcement people that
were talking about it and living it every day, but it just seemed

(D


42

whole way. They could have given up on me, that was really easy.
And some of the friends that I did lose because of my drug use, I
gained back and they are with me now and they are supporting
me.

Mr. ZELIFF. That is great. I guess the same things that we said
to Carey apply to you as well. You could be—thank you for sharing
your message with us. And as you heard the applause, you have
got a great support group within the community, and thank you for
helping us deal with a major issue.

jut you can provide so much in terms of leadership, in terms of
your peers, in terms of a future for your peers. You are regaining
the future that you could have lost and you have become an exam-
ple of someone who provides leadership. You know, in a much more
healthy way and that is what we really vitally need.

We need at the very top, all of us, to recognize the importance
of role models. What we do as parents and what we learn as par-
ents and for many of us now as grandparents. We do not realize
that every single little thing that we do sets an example for some-
one to follow. And not that—I mean I come from a divorced family
and you came from a divorced family. How much that had an effect
on your life, you know, because of your parents having a divorce.
Maybe that had something to do with it, who knows. But now you
can help a lot of others and you can provide a great leadership role
model—role. So thank you.

Ms. Lona. Thank you.

Mr. ZELIFF. I should not get carried away here and let everybody
testify first. Barbara St. Clair.

Ms. St. CLair. My name is Barbara St. Clair.

Eleven years ago, I came to Orlando, FL, from South Carolina
and entered the House of Hope program. I was raised in a dysfunc-
tional family with an alcoholic father and other family members on
drugs. My family was falling apart and I began running away at
the age of 11 years old. I was snatched into a lifestyle of doom and
despair and disease and all kind of things. At the age of 13, I did
overdose on drugs and almost lost my life.

My mom tried everything. I was in and out of many secular pro-
grams without receiving any help, and it was not until she found
the House of Hope that the nightmares and hurts in my past were
healed. It was through the counseling, education and love of God
shown through the dedicated staff at House of Hope that my heart
was restored and my family was reconciled. Today, 11 years later,
I am on staff at House of Ho with my husband and we are serv-
ing in the capacity that once helped my life. .

Tam here today to represent Sara Trollinger, founder and presi-
dent of House of Hope, who is now in North Carolina speaking at
an opening of a House of Hope there in Raleigh. Sara said, and I
quote, “The problems of drugs affecting and destroying our teen-
agers will not go away by themselves . . . they will not go away
by more rules and laws; neither will they go away by governmental
control. Making more money available to fund more government
controlled, secular programs is not the answer.”

When President Reagan visited House of Hope in 1990, he said,
and I quote, “Secular programs are not the answer. There needs to
be more Houses of Hope in every city across our Nation. The real


73

Mr. Hatsic. That is right. And it has to come from you guys be-
cause right now there is a chance to go back to Washington and
take a good look at public schools, because guess what, these are
the people who are going to have the jobs, they are the ones that
are going to raise the kids. But again, how many more teachers
have to lose their lives? And you know what, these are educators.
The only thing they have for their protection is a pen. They do not
have a gun. We just lost a teacher in Atlanta, GA, the other day,
breaking up a fight in an alternative high school, he is an English
teacher, 49 years of age, husband and father of three children. And
he lost his life doing something he loves. When do we stand up for
these teachers and give them some protection?

I really appreciate your time. OK? It is tough. Thanks, you all.
[Applause.]

r, ZELIFF. I would just add one comment. I had a teacher from
Tamworth, NH, call me one day, he was reprimanded for listing on
the board all the kids that got A’s, because that is discrimination.
Something has gone wacky in America and we have got to some-
how start making some changes.

I will start with you, Mr. Souder.

Mr. Souper. First off, I get a little—as a Notre Dame alum, I
et a little nervous each time I hear Seminole County because I
eep thinking you are saying Seminole country. I went down to the

Orange Bowl, took my two boys down this last year and watched
us get beat and heard the chop one too many times. [Laughter.]

ir. ZELIFF. You will get over it.

Mr. Souper. I do not know, it may take awhile. Not this year,
I do not think.

I wanted to follow up, first, let me say I believe it takes all of
the categories too, both prevention at the border and prevention in
education, I believe it takes treatment. One of the things we do
know, however, is that even if the treatment worked, if you cannot
lower the number of people coming into treatment, the number of
addicts is a direct percentage of the number of users. If the number
of users increases, there is nothing we can do with treatment. I
also would like for the record, if the staff could find some data.
This chart does not match some of what we have seen in the pro-
portion funding, in the supply/demand funding, and I would like to
see something else in the record.

Dr. CANTLEY. Mr. Souder, the source of that information by the
way is the Legal Action Center in New York and I do have infor-
mation. Whether or not it matches or not, that is the source.

Mr. SoupDER. What I want to see is—and we can follow up, but
I want to keep open the record so we can put something in to see
what is being combined under supply and demand. Sometimes that
makes a difference. It may be that they are combining State and
local and Federal resources on police as opposed to interdiction, be-
cause what we are seeing is a major drop in interdiction and eradi-
cation that was here and gone down steadily. I think the treatment
percentages are probably roughly pretty much mixed, because that
is more Federal. But that is an important debate we are having
right now.

Dr. CANTLEY. Absolutely. If the staff would like to, I do have the
source documents.


82

Thirteen percent of the students surveyed did not even think
that there was a solution needed or that there could not be one
‘ound.

We are not giving our Personal opinions, these are—we are just
representing the voice of Lake Mary and this is what the Lake
Mary students think and feel at Lake Mary High School.

Mr. Mica. Well, I want to thank the three of you students for the
leadership role you have taken in providing this information to our
subcommittee and our committee and all of your comments and
these letters and your report will be a part of the record of this
hearing. But we appreciate your coming. You heard the panels
today, you can see how it can devastate lives and how it can dev-
astate our community and the country. So we need everybody
working on this together, and we appreciate again your taking a
leadership role at Lake Mary High School.

I would like to excuse you now and we are going to hear next
from Mayor Robert Breaux, mayor of the city of Maitland. Mayor
Breaux, you are recognized for 3 minutes, sir.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT BREAUX, MAYOR, CITY OF
MAITLAND, FL.

Mayor BREAUx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Mica. And if you have lengthier statements, without objec-
tion, they will be made part of the record.

Mayor BREAUx. Thank you very much.

Today, Mr. Chairman, we have heard a mixture of data and opin-
ion. We have heard problems and solutions, we have heard respon-
sibilities of parents, schools, children. Each of us sees this problem
from our own unique perspective, but I think what we need to do
is get personal.

T want to tell you a little bit about what is going on in Maitland
and I have four recommendations for you.

The number of youth at risk in Orange County has risen in the
last 10 years 17 percent, but the number of crimes—auto theft,
concealed firearms, robbery, sexual battery—has increased in the
hundreds of percent. The State of Florida still has the worst crime
rate in the Nation. Florida ranked No. 1 in the number of high
school dropouts.

Maitland is taking this issue very personally. For the 6th year,
our part 1 crimes have gone down. The number of citizens involved
in our neighborhood watch groups have gone up. Over 20 percent
of all our households are now involved. We in Maitland are spon-
soring a team dance—does that sound old fashioned? Well, for
sixth, seventh, and eighth graders, it gives them alternative things
to do on nights out. The middle school in Maitland has its team
court. It is so successful, the Orange County schools are consider-
ing that as a model program. The Maitland Police school resource
officer provided by the city of Maitland conducts programs for
youth and the D.A.R.E. Program is taught in each of our elemen-
tary, public elementary schools, and our private elementary school.

We are taking this up close and personal for each of us as citi-
zens, parents, and also children. I would like to recommend four
things.


REPORT FROM THE FRONT LINE: THE DRUG
BATTLE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY,
INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT
REFORM AND OVERSIGHT
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION

OCTOBER 14, 1996

Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight

cs

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
45-136 WASHINGTON : 1998

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402

ISBN 0-16-055983-9
3





30

said, my whole family seemed to be going down the tubes. My rela-
tionship with my wife became nonexistent, we would blame each
other, try to find reasons why my son was sneaking out windows
and doors and not paying attention to me. His common remark
was, “you just do not understand” and he would just disappear.

My wife and I would go to different rooms and try to do different
things to cope with what was going on in our lives. We took up role
models—not models, but roles. I was a hero, I was eaten up with
guilt about what was going on and I could not figure out what the
reasons were. I tried to fix everything.

Carey got arrested and I tried to find a way, a legal way, to show
that he could be protected from the consequences of his actions. I
did not know that that was the wrong thing to do at the time. I
was in denial basically because my son had an I.Q. of 140, and I
thought that he was entirely too intelligent to be caught up in
drugs. This went on until one fateful night when he got in a fight
in the daytime, a fight with five or six other people. He was high,
as I have learned since then, got beat up pretty badly, had to be
taken to the hospital. When he came home, it did not mean any-
thing to him, he wanted to go out again. Tried to keep him home.
That hight was the culmination of the craziness in my house, I had
to call the police on my son because I found drugs on him, enough
drugs that it made me realize that—at one time I thought that my
son was hanging around with the wrong crowd—my son was the
wrong crowd. So I had to make a terrible decision, for me. I called
the police on my son because my life had become so crazy, I could
pot leer, my work suffered, I had no relationship with any of my
amily.

We got into treatment and I learned a lot of things. I learned
that we are dealing with a disease—that is primary. It is the first
thing in his life, and will be forever the first thing in his life. It
is chronic, it is never going away. It is progressive, it gets worse.
And the most devastating thing of all, it is terminal. If he did not
die in a car wreck, he was going to die from an overdose of cocaine,
heroin, whatever he could get his hands on at the time.

I am overdue, so I want to close with saying that this is the sin-

le-most, in my mind, threat to national security that this country
faces, Our kids are not being eat up by conservatism and liberal-
ism, Clintonism, Doleism, whatever isms. It is drugs that are eat-
ing our kids up and our future is dependent upon these children.
And it does not matter whether they are black, white, green, what
kind of parents they have or do not have. And I implore the powers
that be and whatever you guys can do to help the situation, and
I give you a lot of credit for trying.

Thank you.

Mr. ZELIFF. We pive—lapplause.]

I just want to thank you for the courage of both you and Carey
for being here and sharing it with us. I think that message is criti-
cal and for you to be willing to step up and share with your com-
munity your experiences is very helpful. And frankly, I hope we
will end up—you know, our challenge as we move forward here na-
tionally is to get America to wake up, but it has got to start in each
individual community.

Carey, anything you would like to add to your dad’s comments?


89

cated about substance abuse. I think parents want to know, they
want to know what to do but they do not know where to get the
information. Or because of denial, which is a rampant part of hav-
ing a child with a substance abuse problem, you will not access it
without a little push.

Our school systems in our area are doing a really effective job of
identifying and. providing support for high risk kids, but they are
disempowered in terms of being able to get to the parents. And
what I would like to see happen is that kids who are identified as
high risk for whatever reason, that their parents be required to ob-
tain education. Hopefully so that when their kid does develop a
problem, they will know what to do and where to go.

Right now, we saw from the skit earlier today, the school system
does not have a lot of power to take really active steps when they
need to. And I think that we need to empower them to get the par-
ents involved, to communicate with parents, to communicate with
law enforcement, to do whatever needs to be done because obvi-
ously they are at the front lines of a lot of what is happening.

The school system is being asked to be the treatment program,
the educator, the counselor—they are being asked to do too much,
frankly. It is not their job to solve all of our society’s ills.

I think the same thing is true in terms of the juvenile justice sys-
tem requiring parent education. I think every kid that is arrested,
their parents should be required to go through some kind of edu-
cation program. And that would be a key thing that we could do.

And then the last point I want to make, since the red light has
come on, is that I would love to see a way for Government to part-
ner with privately funded programs. We are a private program, we
do not receive any Government money whatsoever. However, I
think that we can still be an available resource to the public sector.
The publicly funded treatment programs should be reserved for
those kids who cannot afford treatment, who do not have insur-
ance, you know, who do not have means. Let kids who do have
means go to places that are private. Maybe the Government could
provide incentives for private programs to exist, for programs that
are already doing it well to continue to do that. As it is right now,
the publicly funded programs in our area have long waiting lists
and I have got beds out the wazoo. You know, I could take 20 kids
today into treatment. And that is not true of the publicly funded
programs.

So I will stop with that. Thank you.

Mr. Mica. Thank you for your recommendations. [Applause.]

Incidentally too, we will leave the record open how Bag?

Mr. ZELIFF. Five days.

Mr. Mica. Five days for additional testimony. So if you have
something that is lengthier than your presentation or are not able

stify—

Mr. ZeLirr. And Mr. Chairman, I just would like to add in the
last comment was a concern about interdiction taking too much of
the total available resources. Interdiction is 8.8 percent of the total
resources, So it is a very small piece. So I just, for the record, point

at out.

Mr. Mica. And I think both Chairman Zeliff and myself know
that you have to confront this on every —


84

fore they get to us. And so we are seeing kids who have not yet
reached the bottom, but they are near the bottom and they are pre-
sented with a host of problems. By the time they come into treat-
ment, the families also need services. And so I have some rec-
ommendations in terms of what I believe and what the agency be-
lieves are needed.

I need to say as well that we receive Federal dollars out of CSAT
through a prevention coalition grant with another program here
and also funding through the drug free school grants. And my rec-
ommendations are: To include all aspects of the communities to
work together to improve conditions and empower residents to be-
come drug free; additional parenting training; greater accountabil-
ity; more prevention programs for youngsters at an earlier age; val-
ues training; additional community substance abuse programs and
family education counseling; and once treatment is over, more
after-care services.

I believe our program and other programs are effective but un-
less we are going to follow it up and provide after-care services, we
are going to see the recidivism that you talked about earlier.

Thank you.

Mr. Mica. We thank you for your testimony. And we now have
Joan Ballard, the Center for Drug Free Living. One of the things,
as she is coming up, we tried to distribute the witnesses on the
first panels as broadly as we could from the various counties and
communities, but we know the tremendous work each of these
groups do, including your group, and wanted to try to be fair geo-
graphically as well as representation. So Joan, you are recognized
‘or 3 minutes. Thank you.

STATEMENT OF JOAN BALLARD

Ms. BALLARD. Thank you and thank you and welcome. I am just
overwhelmed with what we have heard this morning and what I
heard last Tuesday.

I am Joan Ballard and I am director of community relations at
the Center for Drug Free Living, and we are a comprehensive pre-
vention, intervention, and treatment agency serving the residents
of four counties in the central Florida area.

You have heard all the statistics you need to hear this morning.
I am going to play a different role. I am going to say what now?
What are we as citizens going to do? I cannot point my finger and
say you can do it all. I think that everybody that was in this room
this morning needs to take some responsibility for this. It is not
your responsibility and it is not mine and it is not the Center for
Drug Free Living or the Grove or any of the other people that
spoke here today. It is everybody's problem and it is time that we
started to realize that.

Eighteen years ago, I had three teenagers and I got involved be-
cause of Marge LaBarge. She had a drug awareness program and
I went to it because I thought at that time that pot was something
you cooked soup in. And I am not being funny, because I really did.
T had escaped that whole generation. .

T have a 16-month-old granddaughter right now and what is her
future going to be like? If we as parents and community activists
do not do something, we cannot rely on the Federal dollars all the


12

During this same period, drug arrests and incarcerations doubled
in this country. We were truly making a societal change in the
1980’s and early 1990's.

Unfortunately, no one noticed. Why? Well due to the constant
barrage of war on drugs, the White House, the media, Congress,
and public failed to recognize our success because their focus
was on a total win strategy. This is an unachievable goal. There
has been no other modern social problem in this country such as
teen pregnancy, homelessness, welfare, or high school test scores
that has shown the success of our drug policy of the 1980’s. I feel
certain that if SAT scores were raised by 50 percent, this success
would have been loudly applauded. Instead, a 50-percent reduction
in number of drug users was considered a failure. It was not a fail-
ure—we gave up.

During the last 3 years, drug abuse has increased. Public apathy
has undermined law enforcement’s ability to arrest drug peddlers
and seize illegal assets. Several court decisions have severely ham-
pered our ability to forfeit illegal drug proceeds. Our country is
clearly at a crossroads with drug abuse.

Our Government’s action during the next few years will deter-
mine if we can gain control of this epidemic or be consumed by it.
We need a solid plan, policy, and focus. This policy must address
three key issues—education during elementary, middle, and high
school; enforcement, including incarceration and effective asset for-
feiture programs and treatment, effective programs to help those
who choose to change their lives.

In addition, the focus must be on drug demand reduction. De-
mand reduction must be a visible public campaign starting from
the White House. Former Presidents Reagan and Bush were per-
sonally active in their antidrug efforts. Our children and the gen-
eral public got actively behind these efforts and hence, the 50-per-
cent reduction in drugs in the early 1980’s—excuse me in the
1980’s and early 1990's.

In closing, we must focus on drug demand reduction and forget
about the war on drugs rhetoric. We must also realize that drug
abuse will never disappear or be totally eradicated. Reducing the
demand for drugs will require a long-term commitment from our
Government and the public. Utilizing education, strong enforce-
ment, and effective treatment, we can gain control of the drug
abuse epidemic.

I also would like to thank Congressman Mica, Mr. Zeliff, mem-
bers of the panel for taking the time to come to Lake Mary, FL.

Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr. ZELIFF, Well deserved applause. Mr. Vose. |

Mr. VosE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, gentlemen. My name is
Bill Vose. I am the chief assistant State attorney in the Orange
and Osceola Circuit, which is the Ninth Circuit of Florida. We are
a little to the south of here. We are the third largest, maybe fourth
largest circuit in the State and are feeling the pinches and the
problems that are occurring because of the importation of a variety
of narcotics.

Let me start off by saying what the Federal Government can do
for us, or for my office as prosecutor. We are funded by the State
of Florida, by our legislative branch and they have developed fairly


54

Testimony of: Dr. Emest D. Cantley, President and C.E.O.
Leon F. Stewart-Hal S. Marchman Center, Inc
3875 Tiger Bay Road
Daytona Beach, Florida 32124

Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs and Criminal Justice

Chairman Zeliff, members of the Subcommittee, and honored guests, would like to express my
thanks and appreciation to Congressman Mica for arranging to have this committee meeting in
Central and East Central Florida. | feel that conducting hearings, like this one, in local

communities is good for educating our citizens as well as being educational for the members.

I believe I am here because | am an addiction professional. This profession is only twenty-five
(25) years old. It started around 1970 with the creation of the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse

and Alcoholism (NIAAA) and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).

My career in addictions started in 1970 when | went to work for one of NIAAA‘a original
demonstration programs. These programs were designed to determine if individuals could be
treated within various treatment environments. My program was a hospital based program,
located in Beckley, West Virginia. Our charge was to establish a comprehensive treatment
program in order to determine if alcoholics could be effectively treated in general hospital
settings. Other demonstration programs were established in other community based settings,

including correctional institutions

Thave worked through the developmental stages of the treatment and prevention experimentation

and am proud of the accomplishments made in responding to the individual needs of our citizens.


96

and the drug and alcohol intervention program. I did design a pro-
gram that allowed kids to go into treatment rather than being
automatically expelled. In 1986-87, I referred over 100 kids to
treatment programs through that particular program. At no point
did I have any problem with the confidentiality, and I put it plain
and simple to the parents. However, today in our world, most par-
ents an most families do not really get involved until their ox is
gored.

I would like to make some specific suggestions. Part of this
would include the Federal level, so I will start with that first.

We have got to have more long-term programs that are afford-
able to people that just do not have the money. There are some
around, but they must be long-term. So it is going to take Federal,
State and local help again, because the drug problem is cyclical.
See this gray hair? I can tell you it is cyclical.

One very definite program at the Federal level, that I hope you
gentlemen can go back and do something about is the bill before
Congress right now I believe on the parity of the insurance money
going, minimum $100,000 for medical but also for drug treatment
and mental health. That will help tremendously, at your level.

I would strongly recommend that required parenting classes be
required for all youth arrested—for the parents of all youth ar-
rested for any crime, because all crime is—almost all crimes have
some sort of drug element in them.

I recommend that after-school programs for middle school and
high school students. Both parents are usually working, they have
got to have something between the time they get out of school and
the time parents can either pick them up or get them home, to
Keep them busy. Keeping them busy will help keep them out of

gs.

An intensive program at the middle school level on self-aware-
ness, improving self-esteem, problem-solving techniques and why it
is necessary to have coping skills. This program can encourage a
positive self-image for these kids and you have got to get in there
and work very hard with the middle school kids so that they will
get the message.

I would strongly recommend increased training for all middle
school and high school teachers on identifying at-risk students and
how to deal with them. I do not believe there is enough of this.

I would strongly recommend that we revitalize the old neighbor-
hood watch program to encourage neighbors to help neighbors by
reporting crime and drug abuse. Where possible, the neighborhood
groups may be able to arrange—and this is a new term—a child
watch program, to supervise kids who are home after school while
parents work. To encourage mothers to stay home with their kids
may be an ideal, but it is not realistic in today’s economic world.

T would strongly recommend that we increase the consistent

rosecution of sanctions against anyone convicted with any crime.
Most crimes again, as I said, are committed by drug users.

I would strongly recommend that we revise the juvenile laws
where they need to be revised, not only at the State level, but also
at the Federal level, so that parents can be responsible to enforce
firm, fair and consistent discipline and without living in fear of
their kids’ reactions or HRS’ retaliation. And I do not mean that


15

not work, not only in treatment but education, prevention, interdic-
tion and source country activities. We need to do some intensive
scientific evaluations to make those determinations. .

Mr. SouDER. Well, thank you. Mr. Chairman, two other things.
One is that if it was not, I would like to now insert his full testi-
mony into the record so that-——

Mr. ZELIFF. Without objection, so ordered.

Mr. SouDER. And the second thing is I apologize, the next 10
minutes or so, I have to leave to catch my plane back. So thank
you very much.

Mr. ZELIFF. That is why we went out of order and got your excel-
lent testimony.

Mr. Sanford.

Mr. SANFORD. Actually, I am going to follow up on his questions
on two points.

One was what are your recommendations—expand the current
treatment system to entice more individuals to I puess join in early
rather than late. What are enticements that you have heard of that
work? Because what I heard with the three young people that
spoke earlier was that regardless of the enticements, they were not
going to go to a treatment center frankly until it was too late.

Dr. CANTLEY. Well, I would have two suggestions to that. First
of all is that work for community support system, particularly fam-
ilies and parents and spouses of addicted people. If we can have
good effective programs, family support, family education pro-
grams, what that does, that works with—you know the father was
sitting here beside the young abuser, the young addict. If we some-
how or another could have worked with that father and taught him
some of these concepts that we call enabling, you know, over and
over and over for several years, if we could have continued to work
with the school system people to look at some of their activities.

Basically we know that we have to get some form of voluntari-
ness out of the people coming into treatment. Not necessarily that
they have to come to treatment voluntarily, but they have to agree
to participate, we cannot force it on them, and if we do attempt to
force it, they are not going to get it.

So we have to look at closing off, you know, those support sys-
tems that they are using. He made a big deal of talking about how
he had manipulated his father. We have got to teach parents and
we have got to teach community members how not to be manipu-
lated by their loving. You know, I use a phrase all the time dealing
with it, “for all the right reasons, parents do all the wrong things.
They do it out of love thinking they are trying to help them and
you cannot love a kid out of a drug abuse problem. So that is the

irst one.

The second one is that we know that by gettii le into treat-
ment earlier, they are going to be more Successful, e problem is
right now that we just do not have sufficient treatment capacity to
do that and that is a real big piece of it.

Mr. SaNForD. So it is a capacity constraint, not an interest or en-
ticement constraint?

Dr. CANTLEY. Oh, I think it is enticement too. It is both of them.
You_know, several years ago we used to have, all the programs
would have outreach or case finding activities. We stopped those


36

_ So that is where I am now, I am slowly getting back out into so-
ciety and stuff.
ir. SOUDER. You said you had friends who went through treat-
ment programs and you alluded a minute ago, you used the word
spiritual in that. How important a component do you believe that
is and have you seen your friends who do not have a spiritual com-
ponent be able to pull out?

Mr. C. Duryea. I am in AA and it is a spiritual program and
that is what it is based on, that is its base. Without that, I would
not be alive today, you know. If it was not for God putting the
treatment center—you know, I could have been in five other treat-
ment centers and I would not have gotten sober, staying in there
30 days and coming out, I would have met more friends.

Mr. SOUDER. Well, I thank you both for coming forth. We cannot
say that enough, but it is really helpful, not only to us, but to ev-
erybody else who is doing it. It takes courage to do that.

r. C, Duryea. Thanks.

Mr. ZELIFF. Carey, I just want to ask a quick question. You
know, one of the things that surprises me in this war on drugs, no
churches, no sermons—I go to church every Sunday and we try to
go to different churches in my district, and it does not seem to be
a subject for churches and sermons in terms of an issue. Do you
think that that is something that we need to look at?

Mr. C. DuRYEA. Hmmm.

Mr. ZELIFF. Relative to your own spiritual message that you are
getting through AA. I mean, it certainly could not hurt, could it?

Mr. C. Duryea. I would say more treatment centers and stuff
like that. You know, or something—more Government funded
treatment centers, because kids do not want to go to church, I did
not want to go to church. Most of the kids in Lake Mary High
School or anywhere, that is the last thing we want to do, is go to
church. If the influence was there, if everyone was going to church,
I would be going to church. But that is not what everybody is
doing, everybody is using drugs.

Mr. ZELIFF. Well, we have a challenge, do we not?

Mr. C. Duryea. Yeah. And I think like a lot of people are not
very aware of it just because they do not want to be aware of it.
You know, it may be a subconscious thing, but they do not want
to see all their kids, all their friends’ kids are using drugs, it hurts.
That is what I did for a long time, I did not want to see a problem
and then I sto; using.

Mr. ZELIFF. nk you very, very much for your testimony.

Toni Goodwin.

Ms. Goopwin. Hi. My name is Toni Goodwin. I am here address-
ing this hearing on behalf of myself, friends, family, and my son,
Jonathan, as well as the other teens, young adults and families
whose lives have been destroyed or lost because of the epidemic of
drugs, especially heroin and Rohypnol now present in central Flor-
ida.

I am here because our 16-year-old son, Jonathan, was with
friends at a party one night and died there. Blondee was the
youngest victim yet of an overdose of heroin and Rohypnol.

At the time of his death, his so-called friends lied about the loca-
tion and the circumstances surrounding this tragic incident. Or-


48

and said I cannot take this any more, and they are offering me an-
other way.

Mr. SOUDER. Were you already in treatment at that point?

Ms. Lona. Uh-huh, right. And I refused their help for awhile and
then I said, you know, they are offering me this chance to live
again.

Mr. Souper. Were you partly separated from the negative influ-
ences during that period you were on the treatment?

Ms. Lonc. Uh-huh.

Mr. SoupeER. And so that enabled them to in effect have a shot
at influencing you and you then came to realization.

Ms. Lone. Right.

Mr. Souper. Did you smoke cigarettes as well, early on?

Ms. Lone. Yes, in my past.

Mr. SoupeR. You know, not every kid gets involved in mari-
juana, in fact. I mean, that is something we have to be very careful
with, because it is not everybody. There is a statistic out, they
studied a lot of high school kids over a lot of years, monthly if you
do not smoke cigarettes, there is only a 6-percent chance you will
smoke marijuana that month, 70 percent if you do smoke. In your
lifetime, if you do not smoke cigarettes, there is only a 17-percent
chance you will ever touch marijuana but a 93 percent chance if
you touch cigarettes.

Interestingly, adults do not have the same impression. But it ap-
pears with kids that that is a gateway drug and we have to deal
with that. Even those of us who disagree with Federal policy for
adults, cigarettes and alcohol for kids are the direct gateway. And
that is why I wanted to ask.

Did you smoke cigarettes also, Carey?

Mr. C. Duryea. In my past, I did. I am not allowed to in treat-
ment now. [Laughter.]

Mr. SoubER. Yes. Another question that I would like to plunge
into is the question of testing. Bethany, you talked about at the
school, and this may be something we would have to legally change
because of the courts, but in those kids who if there was reasonable
suspicion and there was regular testing, do you believe the kids be-
havior would have changed if they thought it would be—the teach-
ers would know who they are, their parents would know who they
are, and there would be some accountability?

Ms. LonG. I think early on, yes, like in the very beginning. I
think it would have to be a combination of testing. That is only
like—it is not even really proof any more because you can, you
know, think of like a thousand different ways. Kids are coming up
with a thousand different ways to pass urine tests. It is not that

any more.

Mr. SouDER. But the hair test is pretty straight-forward.

Ms. Lon. Right.

Mr. SoupER. You cannot change—we got drug tested, 40 of us
Members of Co: ss, and they just do a little clip of your hair. We
can get a report back on everything and it is pretty foolproof.

Ms. Lone. Yes. . .

Mr. ZELIFF. A lot of completely shaved kids will be going around.
{Laughter.]

Mr. SoupeER. I suppose that could be true.


53

Chances are they may very well be born into a family of active
addiction within that family, the parents, the brother, sister. They
live that life.

dhe mother today is likely to be an active substance abuser her-
self.

We have a music industry out there that glorifies the use of
drugs. We have got to have a more effective solution to that. To me,
I think that solution will be a lot on the demand side. As long as
we have people on the street that are demanding drugs in this ca
italistic system that we live in today, someone is going to provide
those drugs if there is a profit motive there.

We have got to have effective treatment, we have got to have ef-
fective education.

I have delineated in the last section here—and I see my time is
up—what I think some of the key elements of this demand side
needs to be, ranging from education through treatment through
prevention.

With that, I would like to thank you for coming and wait for
questions.

Mr. ZELIFF. Dr. Cantley, thank you very much. Marge LaBarge.

[The prepared statement of Dr. Cantley follows:]


49

Ms. Lone. The thing is that people just cannot give random drug
tests to people. If they do, the parents cannot—the school people
cannot tell the parents, you know, your kid was tested for drugs.

Mr. SouDER. For the record, that is not legally true. There have
been some circuits where they can and some circuits where they
cannot, and they have to have some probable cause, but we have
got to be careful we do not speak misstatements. Some schools
claim they do not want to because they are worried they are going
to get sued and they do not want to go to court. That is a little
bit different than saying they cannot do it.

They certainly can for athletics, they certainly can if there is
probable cause, and more schools need to do that. But if we need
to pass more laws to protect the school boards, then we ought to
look at that too. You are right, most schools do not and they say
that reason.

Ms. Lone. Right.

Mr. ZELIFF. I know we have to move on to Mark Sanford, but it
is interesting, in Keene, NH, there was a story 1 day on a major
increase in drug use at school, an epidemic, going crazy. And then
we had some parents upset because the football team was going to
be drug tested, in the same school. So somewhere along the line,
we have got to get real and say do we have a problem and do we
want to do something about it. And maybe some of these laws have
to change.

Mr. Souper. I want to mention one other thing in the drug test-
ing, and that is that we put into law in 1989, that Drug Free
Schools money can be used for drug testing athletes, so it is not
only allowed, it is in the Drug Free Schools money, because we did
that when I worked for Senator Coates.

Mr. ZELIFF. Good point. Mark Sanford.

Mr. SANForD. Three quick questions for you all. First, for those
of you—I guess Carey, Ms. St. Clair and Ms. Long—that have been
in and out of I guess different phases of treatment centers, my
question is I guess, in your mind, what do you think would work.
In other words, what you have said is that probation/counseling is
of limited benefit in some cases. Would it therefore be—which
would have the greater bang for the buck, to make it less socially
acceptable. Let us say you put Michael Jordan on 30 second TV
spots around the country saying you should not be using drugs. In
other words, you do things like that. Or we have got a place called
Parris Island up close to where I am up in Charleston. Apparently
there is not a lot of drug use at Parris Island, and it is a fairly in-
tense place. Would that be a better way of getting young folks off
drugs? Do you send them into like a boot camp setting or do you.
try and go socially acceptable, go the Michael Jordan route? What
do you do, what do you all think?

Ms. Lone. I would think that just finding a good long-term, very
structured treatment facility. Boot camp just does—you know, I
know people that went like to military school, they did all that
stuff and got put away in places. But I think what people need is
an alternative to using drugs.

Mr. SANForD. OK.


78

grams that are not so solid, lack of accountability, misuse, even
fraud. And maybe each of you would just tell me—Jim I guess and
Marge—just what we need to do to make sure that all the money
that is going into drug free schools programs are effective and per-
haps maybe you can. We kind of think we need more accountability
in it and we need to share some of the ideas where it is working
and where it is not working, but anything you can add to help us
would be appreciated. Marge.

Ms. LABARGE. Well, I agree with you. I think that the programs
have to be monitored, we have to have an evaluation, we have to
have outcome. And I feel that in Florida because it comes under
the Safe and Drug Free School Prevention Office under DOE, that
we do have a lot of that happening. We are again monitored, we
have to do outcome evaluations and I think that that is the answer.
Where you see money being misspent, I think it is because either
it is not handled in such a way that there is accountability, or it
is not targeted specifically for drug prevention and intervention
through the schools. And that is why, contrary to what some people
believe, I do believe that the funds have to be earmarked to come
down to a district as drug prevention and intervention, or other-
wise in many areas—not in Orange County and certainly not in
Seminole—but in other communities, some of those funds go for
other things such as putting up fences or other areas other than
really working with young people.

Mr. ZELIFF. I will turn it over to Jim, I would like to get your
comments as well, but would it make sense to do block grants back
to the Governors of the States and let the Governors work with the
various counties to come up with targeted programs?

Ms. LABarGE. I do not believe in block grants for drug free
school programs and for drug prevention. I think that it has to
come down specifically allocated for that from the State.

Mr. ZELIFF. From the State and the Federal Government.

Ms. LABARGE. Right.

Mr. ZELIFF. OK. Jim.

Mr. Dawson. I would have to agree with that. The dilution that
occurs in the block grant opportunity for it to get disbursed, lessens
those resources in any one ‘icular effort.

I do not know that I could add a whole lot to Marge’s comments
other than that I think we are held, and should be. I agree with
the accountability that we should face and that the dollars that are
appropriated for that should be directed 100 percent for those is-
sues. Again, as Marge indicated, in Seminole County as in Orange
County, it almost comes in as a categorical. Those funds are re-
served for those activities that we develop in a plan that goes
through quite a bit of scrutiny at the State level, is board approved,
our school board approves that and our dollars are directed at the
activities that are basically driven by that plan and we are held ac-
countable to that plan. .

When it gets dealt with in other manners or it comes—the dol-
lars come in other forms, I do not know that accountability would
be that strong.

Mr, ZELIFF. Thank you. John—Mr. Mica.

Mr. Mica. Well, I think this hearing has been helpful. I am not
an attorney, but to have you illustrate some of the problems that


88

er in Palmetto High, of which I was a part of. I think we have got
to listen to the students that were here talking to us, because the
ideas that they have probably will work for their generation. They
ay not have worked for ours, but it will work for theirs.
‘hank you very much.

Mr. Mica. Thank you, Commissioner Adams.

Mr. ZELIFF. Could I make a quick comment?

Mr. Mica. Yes.

Mr. Zevirr. As far as the CIA and the Mena, AR, and all that,
there is a lot of rumors that go around, but we—if anybody has any
information in terms of substance and facts, we need to evaluate
that and we would do that. I just want to point that out. I do not
want to leave the impression the CIA is out there involving them-
selves with that.

There are rumors and we need to deal with the rumors, but we
need to deal with it with facts. So I just point to that as a matter
of record.

Mr. Mica. Thank Yous I would like to recognize now Kim Barnes,

clinical director of the SAFE Program. Kim, welcome, and you are
recognized.

STATEMENT OF KIM BARNES, CLINICAL DIRECTOR, SAFE
PROGRAM

Ms. BARNES. Yes, I am Kim Barnes, and I am the clinical direc-
tor of Associated Counseling Education, and one of our programs
is the SAFE Program, which is an adolescent treatment program.
You heard a couple of young people who have been through our
program testify this morning.

I wanted to tell you a little bit about our clients because I think
there is a lot of misconceptions about who this drug problem af-
fects. Our clients are predominantly white, they are middle class,
they are from families who have two parents at home. Many of
them have stay-at-home moms. Their parents were involved in the
PTA, were Little League coaches, and were very active parents.
These are not kids who grew up in poor urban areas with no sup-
port.

I also want to point out that our kids are not overwhelmingly
using heroin and cocaine. I have really mixed feelings hearing all
the talk about heroin because I am relieved at one point that her-
oin has gotten a little press because it has made the whole drug
issue public, but I think heroin is just not the problem.

The clients that I serve are smoking pot, they are drinking alco-
hol, they are using Rohypnol, they are using Ecstasy, they are
using Tb, and those are all things that are readily available here
in America. Interdiction efforts are not going to help that problem.
Even pot obviously, although some pot is coming from outside our
borders, those other drugs are manufactured in labs right here in
the USA. That is not to mention inhalant abuse and other things
that are readily available right here in our country. So although I
am not against interdiction efforts, I am a little frightened when
hearing all the focus going there and away from things that are
more local to our boundaries. |

A couple of things I just want to emphasize that I see as impor-
tant in addressing the issue. One is that parents do need to be edu-


43

answers come as a result of heart 8. . . not in creating vil-
lages, but in educating nts with values and skills, to show the
ve Heouse of Hope has 9e-percent of getting
louse of Hope a 95-percent success rate of getting young
people off drugs and reconciled with their parents. Family reconcili-
ation and restoration is our goal. We are teaching parents to as-
sume personal responsibility for raising their chil , and teach-
ing them character principles based on Ged’s word. Our young peo-
ple are our most precious natural resources and America’s future.
The solution to the drug problem and family problems that are
facing our young people today cannot be solved by governmental
control, but by getting the message to parents and educating them
that they need to be responsible.

Thank you.
{The prepared statement of Ms. St. Clair follows:]


Hearing held on October 14, 1996
Statement of:

Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by

CONTENTS

‘Adams, Win, Seminole County commissioner

Ballard, Joan ..

Barnes, Kim, clinical director, SAFE Program

Boddecker, Richard, chairman, Aleoho/Drug Mental Health Association

Breaux, Robert, mayor, city of Maitlan

Cantley, Dr, Emest, president and ‘Bho ths i i Bowe Center;

Marge LaBarge, Orange inty, ool System; Jim Dawson,
supervisor, Drug Free School nford, FL; and’ Wolfgang
clislbig, director of security, Seminole County School
rane, Cindy ..

Duryea, George, commissioner, city of Lake Mary, FL; Carey Duryea:
Toni Rosi Bethany Long, Valencia Community College Student;
and Barbara St. Clair, House of Hope

Gamble, Cathy

Gian ‘Jones, Brenda, assistant executive director, the Grove Counseling

nter

Henry, Seldon

Jones, Richard, president, Florida Narcotics Officers Association

Kerr, Diane, Jacksonville, FL

Larkin, Pat’...

Lee, Darlene, Lake County, Fi,

MeDaniel, Ann, director, Altamonte Center for Counseling

Morris, Chris, ‘and Heidi Pinney, Sarah Clark, Lake Mary High School
students ..

Purdy, James R., Tracking Systems Security

Santiago, Conrad, former rie president of Hispanic Chamber of Gommerce:
Don Eslinger, sheriff, le County; Richard Beary, Lake Mai
Police Department; William C. Vose, State attorney's office; and Josep!
Will, judge, seventh Judicial Circuit .

Cantley, Dr. Ernest, president and CEO, the Stewart-Marchman Center,
prepared statement of ..

Clair, Barbara St., House of Hope, prepared statement of

Goodwin, Toni, prepared statement of

a)

©

Sif


66

Ms. LABaRGE. My name is Marge LaBarge and I work as the stu-
dent assistance coordinator, drug free school coordinator, for the
Orange County Public Schools.

I have worked in this field for the last 30 years, 28 years in Or-
ange County. In that time, I have worked in the area of curriculum
development, training law enforcement officers, emergency room
staff, teaching college and high school drug prevention awareness
programs, starting a drug prevention intervention and treatment
program located in Orlando, which is called—was called The Door,
now the Center for Drug Free Living, and serving as the drug pre-
vention coordinator for the State of Florida. My present position is
in the area of prevention, education, and intervention.

First, I want to thank you for the funding that has allowed
school districts to set up prevention and intervention and edu-
cational programs under the drug free school funds. I also want to
thank you for being here and listening to all sides of the issue,
keeping in mind the saying that it takes different strokes for dif-
ferent folks.

As we look at the whole problem of drug abuse, in the late 1980’s
and early 1990’s, when Nancy Reagan went on record as saying
“Just say no,” people might have thought that this was a joke—but
it was not. Because “Just say no” was a rallying point for commu-
nities, for families, for programs, and for schools. And from the
“Just say no” came the Red Ribbon Campaign and a lot of positive
media and a lot of positive campaigns. Al; -° a sudden as we hit
the 1990’s, we had won the war on drugs. We had turned the cor-
ner and we were home free, or at least that is what we thought.

However, people in the treatment programs, school districts, and
law enforcement knew better. We knew that the war had not been
won. we knew that it just was no longer in an attention-getting po-
sition. We saw a loss of funds, we saw a loss of support, we saw
a loss of community participation, we saw a loss of media attention.

As we look at what is going on, we need to consider the fact that
today’s young person is in a position that many of us are glad we
are not in. Parents say it is difficult to be a parent, but I can guar-
antee you it is worse to be a teenager today. As we look at the
young people of today, we have got to keep in mind that the great-
er percent of our young people are positive young people, who are

roductive citizens of our society, wanting to be involved in the so-
fations and wanting to make a difference, and believe me, they do.

As we look at what we can do and what has happened, we need
to: First, concentrate on the fact that the media has got to start
giving positive messages. We have got to start seeing positive re-
sults. You call the media out and you ask them to come and cover
a Drug Free School rally or Red Ribbou, I guarantee you it is dif-
ficult to get them out. But you tell them that a student has
overdosed or you say that there is a heroin problem, they come out.
Again, we have got to have media support and we have to have it
in a positive way. a

Parents have got to become more accountable and more willing
to stand up, more willing for higher expectations of young people.
When we look at the fact that 42 percent of parents use alcohol on
a daily basis, 25 percent of our young people come from substance
abusing homes, and 27 percent of our young people are allowed to


52

proposals that was designed to demonstrate whether or not individ-
uals could be treated effectively in general hospital settings. They
had others in other community based settings.

So throughout the years since 1970, I have seen a proliferation
of different type of drugs, stronger drugs, different types of reac-
tions of our citizens to those drugs. And certainly I agree with ev-
eryone that we need to have a little bit better solutions to those
elements we are searching for.

Congress has been searching diligently for a solution to these
problems for many, many years. As its primary vehicle, ONDCP,
and now has been operating the funding sources for the efforts for
many, many years.

Starting in 1981—I have got a little chart in here that basically
goes through the separation of demand and supply side funding,
and it shows basically in 1981, there was a pretty good balance be-
tween them with 55 percent of those funds allocated to supply side
and 45 percent to demand side. However, shortly after that, the
percentages began to change and we have been operating roughly
a 2 to 1 split between supply side and demand side activities. And
many of us feel like this is a partial element of the problems we
are talking about.

I have got three real specific issues. One of them is does treat-
ment work, and I know there is a lot of controversy going on
around that. I know ONDCP published a report in March 1996,
“Treatment Protocol Effectiveness Study,” which actually talked
about three or four of the major national efforts that are going on.
The biggest one, I think in my opinion, is the California CALDATA
study, which pretty much evaluated the effects of treating 150,000
people in the California system, and some of the results of that is
pretty clear that treatment does work, it is effective and I think it
is something that we need to do.

The second point that I wanted to touch on is a term that I call
the criminalization of treatment. And this is where we have many
of our treatment systems for voluntary people and people that are
civilly committed, not criminally committed, civilly committed. We
are finding it increasingly more difficult to find treatment beds.
Since the importation or the development of crack cocaine in the
mid-1980’s, our treatment slots have continued to increase, but no-
where near in the numbers as the demand for the services out
there. So our waiting lists have grown more and more and more
and as a result of that, you know, most of the people that enter
these treatment programs are entering through the court system
and that I think is really hurting it.

The third issue that I will talk about and hopefully quickly, is
our service to the adolescent population. That is what I am here
for. Clearly, we have got some real serious problems with our ado-
lescent population. Adolescent problems that call for some very se-
rious type solutions to it. I do not think we should be surprised if
we start looking at what our children face today.

They are more than likely to be born of a single woman who in
many cases does not know where the father is.

When both parents are there, chances are they are going to be
divorced before the kid gets to his teenage years.


26

them, battery, unching somebody out in school, petty theft, a vari-
ety of things like this. And it allows them to come into the court
system with a jury of their peers, other teenagers, to sentence

em. I was not too impressed with the system when I got involved
with it and now I do it about once every 3 weeks, and go over and
either be a judge or an advisor. And I have been amazed at—you
know, teen pressure is what causes a lot of kids to use drugs and
do a variety of things. And I was amazed at the teen jury that is
all teen defendants, the way they—when they had the opportunity,
the peer pressure that they placed on the defendant. It was amaz-
ing that these same kids that had been prosecuted a couple of
weeks before, were now in there saying no, the right thing to do
is this, the right thing to do is this. As an advisor, you stand in
there and listen to this and I am always amazed that they are
tougher on the kids than we are.

And I think that is the problem. We are not tough enough on our
kids. And I am not saying beating them or hitting them, I am just
talking what do kids need, they need rules, they need guidelines,
they need regulations—we all need that as we are growing up and
we are not—well, I should not say we—a lot of us are not doing
that for our children.

We have a booklet here that I brought that we give out in our
office, it is called “There is no place like home to learn right from
wrong.” And it was put on—the Turner Corp. assisted us and we
used the Wizard of Oz, but it has got a whole bunch of things in
there at pretty easy understanding level for parents, both in Eng-
lish and Spanish to help them how to deal with their young ki
and teach them how to do the right thing.

We are not going to solve this in Government. Government—you
know, I have been in Government for 30 years now and we are
very inept, all of us are, at trying to solve social problems. We just
cannot do it. All we can do is try to hit the symptoms. The people
have got to solve this problem for themselves. Hopefully we can
find aa effective way to use the money that they give us or that
we take from them, I guess we should say, to hel

Mr. SANFORD. Do you, therefore, believe that legalization is one
of the ways we might—I read an interesting article by Buckley,
who said that this problem has got to be solved within the family.
Until you change societal norms, you will never be able to elimi-
nate supply. Is that a dumb idea?

Mr. VosE. Well, I do not know if that is the solution. I hear that
debated a lot, there are a lot of intellectuals that feel that legaliza-
tion of drugs would be a good thing. But what message are we then
sending? ‘the message we are sending is go ahead and destroy
yoursely s no matter what. That is like me telling my son when he
went out this weekend, oh, come in whenever you want, dri y
whatever you want, use s, get a couple of girls pregnant, it is
fine, you know, you can make that decision. That is not what we
should be telling our kids. We should be saying no, you cannot do
this. Well, why? Well, because I am your father and when you get
old enough to leave, you can make your own rules. And hopefully,
once they get the rules early enough in life, they remember them.

The kids that I see in the system and that the judge sees, no one
has ever given them any rules, no one has ever told them what the


22

Mr. Mica. My time has expired, but maybe Mr. Vose wanted to
respond,

Mr. VosE. Well, we did just get an opinion out of the U.S. Su-
preme Court that basically threw out most of the bad case law com-
ing up and saved forfeitures, so to speak, even though there is an
effort in our society to do away with forfeitures. It is not a judicial
problem, I am afraid it is a societal problem because some of the
members of the judiciary are out of the community and they per-
haps are products of the 1960’s and 1970’s and do have a lighter
view of drugs. And I think that even though the judiciary is a sepa-
rate and independent branch, the legislative branch funds the judi-
ciary, and there certainly must be some way to give them their
marching orders in light of the restraints of the Constitution.

Mr. ZELIFF, There is, and we need to utilize that.

Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ZELIFF. You have just seen an example of how your Rep-
resentative does so well in Washington. He has milked out two or
three extra questions—did you notice the finesse that he does it
and the level of professionalism?

Mark Souder.

Mr. SouDER. We can get this information from DEA, but I want-
ed to get your—make sure I understood where each of you at the
local level, your experience. Do you believe that the drugs that are
coming into this particular area, all the different counties, are pre-
dominantly coming at this point from Puerto Rico as opposed to up
through Miami and Tampa?

Mr. ESLINGER. No, I do not. I believe it is anywhere from Los An-
geles, Detroit, Chicago.

Mr. SoupeER. So if it would come from that direction, does it come
by air, do you think it comes——

Mr. EsLINGER. I do not know. The local DEA, I think our rep-
resentatives are here, they can maybe answer that question, but
obviously south Florida has a significant impact, Puerto Rico, the
South American countries. But we have had drug traffickers that
I have arrested personally that have gone to New York to obtain
the 20 kilos of cocaine, because of Vice President Bush’s task force
at the time in the mid-1980’s. I mean, it was at its pinnacle.

Interdiction work is like putting your thumb on mercury, it is
just going to go elsewhere. So that is why I think we should do a
better job in the totality of circumstances.

Mr. SoupeR. So you think it is coming, trying to get—do you
think it is moving in different traffic patterns than it was pre-
viously or it has always been this mix?

Mr. ESLINGER. I think in south Florida, I think in central Flor-
ida, I think that Tampa has been a source city at some point in
time and I think we see Mexican marijuana, Texas. We have inter-
dicted and seized large shipments of marijuana from Texas. Los
Angeles, we know has played a role and obviously a significant
amount of heroin is in fact, unfortunately, coming through Puerto

ico.

Mr. SoupER. So—and the others can comment as well—you do
not see a shift in patterns in the last 2 to 3 years as to where it
is coming from?


34

making it so socially acceptable. That is what I thought that pres-
sured me into it so much, because all this paraphernalia, there are
so many head shops, so many things like that. I was like, they tell
me not to do this, and then I go to this store and I can buy pipes,
I can buy bongs, I can buy shirts that have big marijuana leaves
on them and stuff. So what are you trying to tell me. It feels good
and everybody is telling me to do it, so I will just do it.

Mr. Mica. Sounds like the mixed message that we heard some
of the law enforcement people talk about.

I would like to yield to my colleague. I have assumed the Chair.
Did you have any questions, Mr. Souder?

Mr. SoupEr. Yes, I have a 19-year-old daughter, a 17-year old
son as well as an 8-year-old son. And first off, fet me commend you
two for coming forth, both Mr. Duryea and Carey.

I want to ask you a couple of other questions, first to Carey. It
is easier now afterwards to explain this, but looking at the time
you were on drugs and dealing them, did you feel it was wrong?
Down deep did you know it was wrong or did you not?

Mr. C. Duryea. Yes, I had a lot of feelings about it. The whole
thing of the disease is that I have feelings that I push down by
using drugs and it makes me feel numb when I use drugs and
stuff. So the more guilt and stuff I felt, the more drugs I had to
use.

Mr, SoupER. Had you been told by your parents that and did you
ever go through a D.A.R.E. course or any of the antidrug programs
at school? In other words, it was not when you started using them
that you did not know it was wrong when you first started.

Mr. C. Duryea. Oh, I knew it was wrong, it was just the influ-
ence of my friends and it just slowly creeped in. It did not start
out like, it is all right to use crack, you know what I mean. It slow-
ly came upon me. My behavior was up here, you know what I
mean. When I first—you know, when I was in school, I might have
had some slip ups but when my behavior started falling back be-
cause of the crowd and stuff, I | Pulled my morals down because I
felt guilty and stuff. So eventually it kept going down like this to
where I was using crack, so it was a slow progression.

My dad said it was a progressive disease and that is why I slowly
progressed and stuff. I did not start out thinking that having sex
with girls any time promiscuously was all right, you know, using
crack and all that. I did not think that was—I thought that was
wrong at the beginning. I never thought I would be doing that, you
know, until I came to that point where it was necessary for me to
go on to the next day.

Mr. SoUDER. When you—before you tackled your disease, did
you—you said that you felt that other kids looked up to you. Did
you really feel that they looked up to you or did you feel like you
were kind of deceiving yourself? In other words, in retrospect, other
kids were not looking up, you were kind of trapped in a group of
kids. But you said the more you sold, the more power it gave. But
did you really inside feel that way at that time? And if so, which
may be the case, that it was helping your self-esteem, which was
low; what other things could have been done to try to counter that?
In other words, one of our biggest problems in our drug education
program is that they are very good at reaching kids before they are


58

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida

Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, Intemational Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14.1996 Page 5

comprehensive studies on treatment effectiveness and outcomes. Results from these three studies

and one evaluation of prevention services are summarized below as being indicative of current

research:

Drug Abuse Reporting Program (DARP) The Treatment Protocol Effectiveness
Study described these results as follows, “DARP was conducted between 1969 and
1973 with individuals admitted into publicly funded drug treatment and for the first
time provided a nationwide comprehensive assessment of treatment and effectiveness
with a large client sample. It was the first national follow-up study to assess treatment
effectiveness based on clients’ outcomes | yeat after treatment. Major findings from
the DARP study include the following: (1) the three major modalities - outpatient
drug-tree, methadone maintenance and therapeutic communities - produced an equal
level of positive outcomes and (2) clients in detoxification (i.e. inpatient) programs or
those who dropped out of treatment within 3 months did not demonstrate positive

outcomes.”

‘Treatment Outcome Prospective Study (TOPS) This study was conducted between
1979 and 1981 examined client characteristics, treatment, and outcome for more than
11,000 clients. These clients were from 41 different programs and centered on
outpatient drug-free, methadone maintenance and therapeutic communities programs
around the nation. ‘The TOPS study that used criminal behavior in its major analysis,
found, “95 percent of individuals in residential treatment and 80 percent of
individuals in methadone programs reported more than minimal drug betore entering

treatment and a substantial reduction in the use after 3 months of treatment. .... Of


76

Many, many years ago because of the expansion of that waiting
list. If we had expanded capacity to where we would have to go out
and actually try to identify those people earlier and.get them into
treatment, we know it would be much more successful.

Mr. SANFORD. One second very quick question and that would be
another recommendation here was cooperation with the movie and
music industry. I did not think there had been any successes on
that front.

Dr. CANTLEY. Well, where this is coming from is—there have not
been, I think we need to somehow or another get that—you know,
redouble those efforts.

It scares me to death to think that kids are today at least par-
tially getting some of their ethics and values from Beavis and
Butthead on MTV. That just scares me to death, and if it does not
scare you to death I think you need to look at Bevis and Butthead
and see some of the things that they are trying to teach the chil-
dren today.

Mr. ZELIFF. Would the gentleman yield? We had a hearing with
the music industry and we think you are right on the mark on
that. I cannot say we made as much progress as we set out to do,
but we elevated it and we are going to follow up again and again
and again because it is absolutely vital.

Dr. CANTLEY. Thank you for that, sir.

Mr. SoupER. We had a second one, we also had one in Holly-
wood,

Mr. ZELIFF. Yes, and we had one in Hollywood as well. But we
need to do more. Excuse me.

Mr. SANFORD. No, no. In fact, I yield back the balance of my
time.

Ms. LaBarcE. Could I make a statement?

Mr. ZELIFF. Yes.

Ms. LaBARGE. When you hear young people say that a treatment
program or a program within a school cannot tell their parents, I
want you to know that decision is because that is the law that has
been passed as far as confidentiality goes. So as you look at that,
T hope that you will understand that is not because the person who
is working with that young person does not want to and does not
feel that maybe sometimes they need to interfere. But the law
states that unless it is a situation where it is homicidal or suicidal,
that we cannot.

So again, a policy, a law that is tied to school districts and a lot
of the treatment programs, many times may affect the life of the
young person.

Mr. ZELIFF. It is a tragedy for us to allow that law to continue.
So it is something that we need to look at.

Mr. Dawson. Just one quick comment regarding the glorification
of drugs in all forms of the media. One of the things that we are
doing, and I think we are taking a step in the right direction, we
are trying to counter that as often as we can and get strong posi-
tive messages to young people. And one program we initiated last
year was our character education program, getting at the root val-
ues of what is right and what is wrong. And it has been very well
received from this district and I think the community is starting
to embrace it. It is a very simplified program where you select


28

10 years for selling these new drugs, and then sentenced him on
the case that he was on probation for and gave him 10 years con-
current. Now what message did that send? You have got free deliv-
ery of heroin there. In other words, it does not really matter if you
violate your probation, because we are not going to do anything to

you.

But that is not a judge problem or a law enforcement problem,
that is a societal problem. Society thinks that it is not that bad of
a thing. If we are going to have the war on drugs, we have got to
really decide, is it going to be a war on drugs or is it not going to
be a war on drugs. Because if we are not going to do it, I agree

with you, why not legalize it, because we are wasting a lot of
money here.

Mr. SANFORD. I am not suggesting that.

Mr. ZELIFF. Could I just jump in and add, I think the problem
with legalization everybody has their opinion, but when you get
to addictive drugs like crack cocaine and everybody is just trying
a little experiment and they get addicted—I mean I feel very strong
that legalization—just so everybody knows, everybody can weigh in
individually on this, but I think most people in the room probably
do not think, and I know you do not think that is the solution.

Mr. SANFORD. Right.

Mr. ZELIFF. But we at least have a good discussion.

I would like to thank this panel very much, very articulate, right
on the mark and very interesting testimony, some stuff that we
will take back with us as we try to formulate hopefully declaring
the war on drugs.

What I feel you have here in this community, just by listening
to this panel, is that you have the core—and you may already be
doing it, but you have got the core elements of a very effective com-
munity program. You have got a judge, you have got prosecutors,
you have got a sheriff and chief and you have got a lot of interested
community people here. If you have not already done it, what we
are trying to do is now take this thing—you know, we have got re-
sources and we are moving those together, we are trying to get
back to the interdiction challenge that we had with very effective
programs. If I had a chart here—I was looking for it and I cannot
find it—but we have a chart that shows what happened when we
gutted the interdiction program in 1992. And we also know that
right now, teenage drug use is up across the board. We have an
epidemic.

So if this community feels that they would like to help declare
war on drugs and we are going to need to do this nationally, but
locally you can do it, you certainly have the elements and I do not
know where the leadership will come, it cannot all be law enforce-
ment, but it should be a core of law enforcement, parents, judges,
prosecutors, everybody together. And I think you have probably one
great opportunity here, if you have not already done it, to sit down
after this hearing and see who is going to pick up the ball and pull
people together. If you have this much interest, see if you can be
a model for the rest of the country.

Anyway, I thank you all very, very much for your testimony and
being here today, we really sincerely appreciate it. Thank you. [Ap-
plause.]


94

tended the one over in Orlando the other night and that was a good
one also.

The thing that came out more I think in all of these sessions was
the fact that we need more parental supervision of our children. In
order to get that, we are going to have some—have to create some
legislation that makes it mandatory that parents are responsible
for their children’s actions. When I was growing up, if I busted the
man next door’s window with a baseball, my daddy had to go over
and fix or I did with him. That is not so any more.

The situation come up about the ability of children to say to law
enforcement officers, I do not have to take anything out of my pock-
et or I do not have to show you anything, and in the school system,
the same way.

I have been connected with the HRS and ADM for the last 10
years and we deal with not only alcohol and drugs but also the
mental illness, We find that today, out of the homeless population
of about 3,500 ple we have in this area, that 65 percent of them
are also mentally ill, besides being alcoholics and drug addicts. So
the situation is needed where we must contact the alcohol-drug and
mental health situation as one because of the fact that there is
such a great ponderance of codependence and also the fact that
they are mentally ill.

So you want to keep that in mind when we are getting funding,
that we do not borrow from Peter to pay Paul. That has alread
been done. In this State, they took away $40 million from chil-
dren’s mental health to build more jails and that is not right. So
we need more funding for mental health and for alcohol and drugs,
all the way across the board.

They Speak about the number of days that it takes to cure an
addict. We have a place in Florida called the Florida Addiction
Treatment Center, it is in Avon Park. They have a program where
they do not let somebody out of the program until they are ready
to go out of the program, they do not have 24 days or 32 days or
62 days. And these are the things that worry us the most.

But thank you very much for your interest and good luck.

Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony. I will now call Herbert
Reagan.

{No response.]

Mr. Mica. Vernon Brown.

{No response.]

Mr. Mica. Sandy Sims.

{No response.]

Mr. Mica. Bailey Godfrey.

[No response.]

Mr. Mica. Is there anyone else in the audience who had re-
quested to speak? I am sorry if I missed you. Would you identify
yourself and come forward.

STATEMENT OF CATHY GAMBLE

Ms. GAMBLE. My name is Cathy Gamble.

Mr. Mica. Cathy, you are recognized and welcome.

Ms. GAMBLE. Thank you.

I am a mother and an emergency room nurse. I have a son who
is 18, who is also here and we went through probably the most he-


STATEMENTS OF CONRAD SANTIAGO, FORMER PRESIDENT OF
HISPANIC CHAMBER OF COMMERCE; DON ESLINGER, SHER-
IFF, SEMINOLE COUNTY; RICHARD BEARY, LAKE MARY PO-
LICE DEPARTMENT; WILLIAM C. VOSE, STATE ATTORNEY'S
OFFICE; AND JOSEPH WILL, JUDGE, SEVENTH JUDICIAL CIR-
cuIT

Mr. SANTIAGO. Thank you, Chairman.

Honorable Chairman William Zeliff, U.S. Representatives Bill
McCollum, John Mica, Mark Souder, Mark Sanford and all the dis-
tinguished people here today.

It has been about 8¥2 years since I decided to relocate to central
Florida. And I still remember the day when my wife and I made
the decision to relocate to this area. Both my wife and I were born
and raised in Puerto Rico, which made it very difficult because it
meant leaving behind a family, our families, friends, my business,
and our island. But even after considering all those factors, we de-
cided to make central Florida our permanent home, because we
wanted to raise our children in a better and safer environment that
would provide more opportunities to help them develop into con-
structive citizens, and one that has less crime and drugs.

What I just described to you is the typical scenario that most
Puerto Ricans go through when they consider leaving the island.
That is precisely the reason why we are very sensitive to the drug
and crime crisis of central Florida. We want to be part of the solu-
tion. We are ready to roll our sleeves and work together as a com-
munity in order to ensure that the very same reasons that at-
tracted us to the central Florida area continue to be what make us
proud of it.

At the same time, I must say the Puerto Rico’s drug and crime
problems are this Nation’s crisis as well—for two main reasons.

‘irst, as you very well mentioned before, a considerable percentage
of the drugs that infiltrate Puerto Rico flow to the U.S. mainland,
which not only damages the island’s quality of life, but also ours.
Second and more important, the United States Government has
preat control of resources allocated to Puerto Rico and the Carib-

an to combat drug trafficking. The Federal interdiction program
has suffered considerably during the last 3 years. Funding has
been reduced by about 40 percent. Crucial assets have been re-
moved without replacing them and staff has been diminished. Lack
of a regional plan also hampers interdiction efforts in Puerto Rico
and the Caribbean.

At the same time, drug traffickers are better organized and are
using improved technology to evade seizures. All of these factors
have caused drug seizures to decrease by about 40 percent in that
area. This situation leads me to believe that Puerto Rico has been
more the victim than the villain.

As a Hispanic and a member of this community, I am willing to
do my part, as most Puerto Ricans do, and I ask you to do yours
by revamping the interdiction program of the Caribbean. In order
to effectively deal with this evil that corrupts our communities, you
need to increase funding, provide the necessary equipment and
staff and develop a coordinated regional plan.

I can assure yu that if you do that, you will see less students
dropping out of school, lower juvenile drug use and crime, more


77

words with very minimal type of activity. The message is delivered
day in, day out for that particular value for a month and then a
new value takes its place, and it builds onto a display of these
characters as you were. So I think that is an important part as
well, that everything that is negative has to be countered with as
much positive or more or twice as much, because that is such a
Rowe ful message for young people. So we are taking a step in that
irection.

Mr. SOUDER. I would like to ask a follow up on the parental
rights question, or parental access question. Is that a circuit court
decision, a Supreme Court decision or—it is not a Federal law.

Ms. LABARGE. I think it is under Federal drug confidentiality
law, the drug and alcohol Federal confidentiality.

Mr. SOuDER. That particularly applies to schools.

Ms. LABaRGE. Right.

Dr. CANTLEY. It applies to all individuals receiving services rel-
ative to drug abuse, and it is in Code of Federal Regulations, CFR
42, part 2.

Mr. Souper. It is in local parentis, the court rule in local
parentis does not supersede for the schools.

Ms. LaBarGE. When there is a drug treatment program or a
counselor from a drug treatment program in the school setting pro-
viding support services, that law does take effect.

Mr. Souper. But if it is a school drug counselor——

Ms. LaBarcE. If the drug counselor is furnished by a drug treat-
ment program into the school setting, then that law takes effect.

Mr. SoupeR. But if the drug counselor reports to the school
board and is funded by local taxes as opposed to the Federal, it
makes no difference?

Ms. LaBarcE. It probably would, yes.

Dr. CANTLEY. I think we have got a little disagreement. I think
the Code of Federal Regulations says any public dollars, not just
drug abuse dollars. So Medicaid dollars that are in a hospital.

r. ZELIFF. Do you want to take the responsibility to ferret that
out? He who is getting ready to leave, we just gave him a nice little
project.

T think there is a lot of gray area and I think we need to bring
it to the surface and deal with it. So thank you, Mark.

Gentlemen, I know you both have to catch a plane, thank you
very much for being here. John and I will finish up.

Mr. Souper. Thank you. If John does not mention, he has a bill
that I am a cosponsor of, to require television networks to put more
time for a lot of these Partnership for a Drug Free America and
stuff, and partly through his pressure, we will get their attention,
if we cannot get it another way. [Applause.]

Thank you all.

Mr. ZELIFF. I have a question and then I will turn it over to John
Mica, but drug free schools is an issue that there is a lot of misin-
formation on. Back in 1993 and 1994, the Congress before us cut
back I believe drug free schools money, we took a look at it in a
rescission bill initially and then restored level funding this past
year. -

I guess I see many, many examples of good, solid programs in
drug free schools programs. We also are very much aware of pro-


83

That you move the bureaucracy out of Washington, you begin to
decrease the number of bureaucrats at the headquarters level in
Washington and provide those resources out to the field where they
can do a better Seb at the local level.

That you continue to provide funding for things like model pro-
grams at various communities who have had some successes, allow
them to continue those and continue their effectiveness, but you
evaluate—and that is the third—that you provide funding for train-
ing of the personnel who are conducting these successful programs.

And fourth, encourage partnerships with our universities and our
local governments so that they can monitor these successful pro-
grams, evaluate those, develop standards and allow us together—
university, local government, and the Federal Government alike—
to develop the public policy that works the best.

In summary, we need to continue the Federal dollars to evaluate
our programs, we need to continue to improve our efforts in this
very important area, we need a united, organized, and systematic
approach to this problem.

id Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your efforts to bring Washington
down to Seminole County and Orange County so that you under-
stand and your colleagues understand the very important issues
that face all of us.

Thank you.

Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mayor Breaux.

I would like to recognize now Brenda Gilliam-Jones of the Grove
Counseling Center. We are taking these in the order in which the
people either contacted us or indicated a desire to testify. You are
recognized for 3 minutes.

STATEMENT OF BRENDA GILLIAM-JONES, ASSISTANT
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE GROVE COUNSELING CENTER

Ms. Jones. Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

I have worked in substance abuse for 24 years, starting out in
another State, Maryland, and now I am working in Florida. When.
I started, the drug of choice was heroin and I am looking at the
newspaper headlines today and I see that there has been an in-
crease in heroin use.

At the Grove, the Grove is a comprehensive substance abuse
treatment program providing both substance abuse, delinquency
prevention services to adults and adolescents. We, fortunately,

ve not been seeing an increase in the number of adolescents pre-
senting with heroin use. As a matter of fact, in looking at our sta-
tistics, we have only seen approximately three or four adolescents
over the last year.

Marijuana continues to be the drug of choice for adolescents who
are coming into treatment. When they come into treatment, they
indicate that they are using because of lack of leisure activities, lit-
tle involvement on the part of parents, feeling the need to make
themselves feel good, and a host of other things. It is really eas:
to blame parents and other people for why adolescents use. I thi
that there are a variety of reasons, as we have seen.

_As I said, we offer both prevention up to and including residen-
tial treatment. Many of our clients are referred from the criminal
justice system, have been in other private treatment programs be-


5

My Subcommittee on Crime over on Judiciary, on the other hand,
main role is to look at the legislation itself, the criminal laws of
this Nation. It has direct oversight of the FBI and the DEA for
their funding and their manpower and so on. So we overlap in con-
cern, but we have distinctly separate roles.

So we are just really pleased that you are down here today. John
Mica, particularly, has provided leadership nationally that I do not
know if this community is fully appreciative of, but John, you have
done a tremendous job in this drug issue, not only in Florida, but
all over the country, and today is a good example of that.

I would only make a couple of quick comments, Mr. Chairman.
One of the things that I have observed because of working very
closely with the Drug Enforcement Administration in the past few
weeks is a real change. They have changed their estimates from 70
percent of all the cocaine coming across the Mexican border into
the United States, to now saying that more than 40 percent of all
the cocaine entering the United States is coming in through the
eastern Caribbean and Puerto Rico. That is a very significant
change, and I think it reflects what your earlier studies show, and
the GAO report that John Mica brought up, and that is that the
interdiction efforts of this Government, this administration, in the
Caribbean, were reduced dramatically over the last 3 years. And as
a result of that, it is only natural that Colombians who are traffick-
ing all of this stuff are going to look for the weakest spot, the
weakest spot is now the Caribbean.

The studies that I have done show that back in 1993, when all
the major interdiction was at its height in that region, we had by
the measurements of the Department of Defense and Customs and
Coast Guard about 3,000 flight hours a month looking for drugs in
that region of the leeward islands and Puerto Rico, and drug drops.
We are down, as of August of this year, to only 1,100 of those flight
hours every month—a dramatic drop. And the steaming days or the
ship days for the Coast Guard and for the Navy are equally down
from about 371 or so in 1993 to this August somewhere around
175-190, something like that, days in the way they measure it per
month. That is a reflection of this administration, the Clinton ad-
ministration’s failure to understand the importance of interdiction,
the very thing you mentioned in your opening statement. And we
are suffering the direct consequences in Orlando and central Flor-
ida of that fact, because we have a larger quantity of narcotics on
our streets today and we have them here at a lower price. And the
same Colombians who are trafficking in the cocaine are also traf-
ficking in heroin, with 62 percent of all heroin coming into the
United States being Colombian heroin, and a heck of a lot of it
coming into our State, some of it through the Caribbean and a lot
of it on direct flights from Bogota.

So I am very, very pleased that you are here today and this sub-
committee is here today to listen to our community discuss the
problems that it sees as a result of these factors which are there,
and to listen to the problems that we face as we try to meet those
challenges that are brought about, in large measure in my judg-
ment, because of this.

I would like to make one last closing observation, and that is be-
cause of the great deal of attention in the last few weeks on this


81

you use it and when we interviewed Lieutenant Cash, he made the
statement, “heroin is a seductive mistress and the first time you
use it, it never lets you go.” Unfortunately, marijuana, on the other
hand, is a socially acceptable drug among teens in high school and
83 percent said it is very easily accessible, 6 percent said it is hard
and 11 reent of the students really do not know.

It is basically used as an excuse to have more fun at parties or
as an escape from different problems. We had a forum on Wednes-
day—Thursday, we had a forum where we got students together
that were freshmen, sophomores,:juniors, and seniors to actually
voice their own opinions. One of the questions at the forum was
how accessible are drugs in the school. One person said that mari-
juana is the most popular among teens but Spanky can smell it,
making them turn to LSD, which is worse.

Another question is where are they getting the drugs and one
student said everything, they would see everything in the halls and
another student said they see nothing in the is but within 10
minutes away. The neighborhood also contributes to the drug prob-
lem and one of the students actually stood up and said there was
not a drug problem in their development but there was one—actu-
ally there was not a drug problem in his development and when
they asked which development he lived in, the students snickered
when he answered. Unfortunately though, neighborhoods that you
think are drug free are actually drug infested.

And basically to go to the last comment, if you are not looking
for it, you will not find it.

So now, Sarah.

Mr. Mica. Thank you. Sarah Clark.

Ms. CLARK. With many high school students, a bad family life
leads to the use of drugs. Whether it is lack of communication with
the parents or the parents seem too busy or wrapped up into their
work, somehow the child feels the need to fill the gap.

Another major influence on kids is their friends, peer pressure.
As one high school student said in the forum that we did, she said,
“I have had the same friends for 4 years and we are all active in
school activities. We do not have time for drugs.” But most stu-
dents agree that it comes from within, the need to experiment or
do drugs. One student brought out the fact that when she did
drugs it was just a phase she went through.

e students of e Mary had many suggestions for helping to
solve the problem on the abuse of drugs. Forty-four percent of the
students surveyed agreed that tougher law enforcement is defi-
nitely needed to solve the problem. Usually people that get caught,
they find that they just get a slap on the wrist and then they go
back to doing what they were doing before.

Thirty-five percent of the students believe that easier access to
treatment programs would help. Instead of paying thousands of
dollars just to walk in the door of one, they need one that is afford-
able and cheaper and can help them better.

Twenty-six percent said that education is needed, but at an ear-
lier age, it should be started with elementary school kids, not in
high school because it is too late in high school, they are already
into it. Programs such as D.A.R.E., the kids really agreed that that
was the good one.


92

of those kids who are already involved in the adult criminal justice
system are parents. We have a program for women, probably 95
percent of our clients are parents. And most of them have not the
faintest idea how to be parents, and in particular, they do not know
how to talk to their children about why they have come here.

So we have conversations with them about how to talk to their
children about what their lives have been like and how they have
become involved with drugs and alcohol and how they—where their
problems have led them.

What has been happening here today is about people having con-
versations with each other. The places where someone like me can
be effective is perhaps in a conversation with my neighbor, who
would never come into contact with the school system at all, but
I can have an effective conversation with her. And then she can
have an effective conversation with someone else. It really is a per-
sonal thing.

As I was listening to the talk here today, I kept hearing about
the war on drugs. I do not want to be in a war, I do not want to
be part of a war, I do not want to live in a country where there
is a war. But I would love to live in a country where there was a
conversation, where there were lots of conversations going on that
mattered to people, that really made a difference in people’s lives.
And that is the sort of thing that would inspire me.

Thank you.

Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony. Do we have Donna
Pernicci here?

{No response.]

Mr. Mica. Donna Pernicci. Kerry Walensky from Lake County
had called also.

{No response.]

Mr. Mica. We have Ron Brown.

{No response.]

Mr. Mica. Stefan Longo.

[No response.]

Mr. Mica. JoAnn Driberg.

[No response.] :

Mr. Mica. This is just like special orders, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ZELIFF. We have got to quit in another 15 minutes.

Mr. Mica. Richard Jones has already testified. We have Tom
Powers.

{No response.]

Mr. Mica. Not here. We have Jody Scott.

[No response.]

Mr. Mica. Dennis Head.

[No response.]

Mr. Mica. Carol Mintz.

[No response.]

Mr. Mica. Charles Ronguy.

(No response.]

Mr. Mica. Linda Poole.

[No response.] .

Mr. Mica. Darlene Lee. Richard Bodecker.

Mr. ZELIFF. Darlene is here.

Mr. Mica. Oh, I am sorry. Darlene Lee?


60

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida

Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security. International Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14,1996 Page 7

In addition, a 1994 study of 6.000 New York students found a 40 percent reduction on drinking,
smoking, or using marijuana, This decline was the result of the students receiving substance abuse

education and prevention services. The participants in this study were 7th, 8th, and 9th graders.

‘These studies clearly indicate the effectiveness of substance abuse prevention and treatment

services,

Issue Number Two: The Criminalization of Substance Abuse Treatment

‘There have been significant increases in the number of treatment slots available throughout the
United States since 1980, however these increases have not come close to meeting the demand for
services. Waiting lists for treatment (mainly residential) has continued to escalate since the 1985
introduction of crack cocaine. A significant portion of these capacity increases are for “specialty
services", designed to service a sub-segment of the population, for example, corrections,

adolescents, pregnant and post partum women, federal probationers, ete

One of the major elements of pre 1985 substance abuse programs was “case finding”. Case
finding activities were targeted at groups of individuals who were in the early phases of addiction
‘The goal of this component was to get individuals into treatment before their addiction progressed
to more chronic phases. These activities have been eliminated in most of the public programs

today as a result of expanding waiting lists for treatment.

All of these circumstances result in drug abuse treatment services not being available to a large

segment of society. Voluntary and civil committed individuals are the largest segment of society


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18

Gentlemen, thank you for coming to Florida, thank you for com-

ing home for those of you that have done that, and thank you for
your interest in our children and our problems. [Applause.]
__Mr. ZELIFF. Judge, I was very impressed—actually I was very
impressed with everybody's testimony. You talked about being in-
volved with a Little League team, and I think—I have a feel of this
community, if this is representative of the community, the people
that are here. Obviously, I think America is beginning to wake up,
this community obviously is aroused and is concerned, or you
would not be here today.

You talk about a family problem—it is a community problem too,
is it not?

Judge WILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ZELIFF. I am a father of three boys, I am lucky, I have very
successful sons; a veterinarian, a marine and a business partner.
And I have three grandchildren, and those are the kids that I
worry about now at 2¥2, 3, 4 years old. Somehow we got through
all that.

But I did not know anything about drugs, and one of the first
things I had to do—it was kind of crazy, I had to call Tom Con-
stantine at DEA and have him come into my office and bring all
the stuff over and bring me up to date on what it looks like, what
was involved, and I have been doing this for 2 years. But I did not
have any knowledge, and it is hard to talk about drugs, it is like
talking to your kids about sex. Where do you start and how do you
do it when you cross the line on trust and how do you deal with
if you have evidence and what do you look for. The whole experi-
ence of learning to be a better parent maybe needs to be a much
higher priority. But I thought your testimony was terrific.

And just moving over, chief, your comment on mixed messages,
there is no war on drugs, there never has been. We talked about
this at breakfast and you put it right on the line. Tom Constantine,
head of the DEA, said it is a time bomb ticking ready to blow up
in our faces at any time. And we did fail to recognize the success
of the 1980's. It stopped as of somewhere around 1992 and we just
gutted all the policies and the programs, and this is what we have

een trying to fight. You may have read last week or 2 weeks ago,
we have subpoenaed a letter that was hand delivered by Louis
Freeh and Tom Constantine to the President 18 months ago, criti-
cal of the Nation’s drug policy, critical of the dependence on treat-
ment and critical of cutting back on interdiction. We subpoenaed
that letter, we are trying to pull that out. And the IDA report,
which was recently a subject of our 20th hearing on this issue of
criticism of those same policies.

But we are gaining, because at least now the media is starting
to cover this issue. We could have had this hearing 2 years ago and
I do not know whether we would fill this room like we have today.
And I think that is a good start.

Sheriff, I think you somehow crystalized—it is symptoms of a
greater, much more complex moral problem in this country. I do
not know where we start, and Government is not going to solve
that one. I mean, I think we all have to wake up before it is too
late.

Do you want to expound on that any?


AT

ways like it when it comes but eventually I see the benefit because
I am not out using any more and stuff.

Mr. Mica. Thank you. We spend an awful lot of money on these
programs from the Federal level, so we are trying to find out where
we can best get those funds directed. Thank you.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you, Mr. Mica. Mr. Souder.

Mr. SoupEr. One of the things I think is important to put on the
record is that I too feel there is a difference between the results
in the public and private, because there is a substantive character
component. Where we use Government funds, you cannot preach
Christianity, which would be in most cases, or Muslim, for that
matter, which has been effective in the African-American commu-
nity, Islam. And we do not really want the Government into that.
It is not a case, quite frankly, of the school people not wanting to
do more or counselors not wanting to do more in the other places.
To some degree, there are restrictions on what they can and cannot
do. You are looking at it from your perspective that some people
who have been trying to help you may have gotten inadvertently
something in the Congressional Record that is a broader sweeping
statement that even you meant to intend.

I think their intentions are correct, but we have got to look at
the fact that we have an 85-percent recidivism rate in treatment
programs around the country, 90 percent in some, meaning people

‘all back. I have talked to drug addicts and alcoholics all over the
country who have said that they have been through 7 to 10 pro-
grams, they learn how to scam them, they know how to get in for
awhile. And we have got to look at that as a Government to avoid
that. So I think it is important, in addition to what you said, I
wanted to add that to the record.

Is there a—let me ask you, Ms. Long, was there a particular
point in your life where you said this is where I am going to cross
over? You present an unusual problem, you described yourself, and
we can all kind of see your enthusiasm and your ability to in effect
charm and really through guile, trick any of us. For all I know, you
could be tricking us right now, you are good at it. [Laughter.]

Was there some point in your life where you crossed and you just
said I am going to change—internally? And what caused you to do

at?

Ms. Lon. Are you talking changing from——

Mr. Souper. Being an alcoholic—I mean, you will always be—

Ms. LonG. Right.

Mr. Souper [continuing]. An alcoholic, but a recovering alcoholic
as opposed to an alcoholic, and a recovering addict.

Ms. Lonc. Well, I was presented with a possible scholarship to
a university that I really wanted to go, but I knew that I would
not be able to get there unless I was sober. There was a lot of
things that built up, there was a lot of like those feelings because
of drugs and other stuff. They all started to come up and as soon
as I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, I started to change
and decided I wanted to be with my family. It got to a point where
I felt so bad about who I was and what I was doing that like one
morning I woke up and I physically just could not move because
I was so tired. You know, it was because I got to a certain point


51

they are involved the whole time that their daughter is in the pro-
gram. Normally the program is 8 months to a year and a half, so
that is a long-term program. The biggest thing first of all is dealing
with the parents. As this gentleman stated earlier the things that
he was going through and he did not know that his son was doing
it. It is educating them, first of all, basing everything we do on
God’s word and that is why we take a strong stand about Govern-
ment-funded money, because if we did, we could not do that.

Just, like I said, educating the parents, having them involved,
not just to bring their daughter to a program and leave them, they
have to be involved. We have sleep overs, different things like that,
and the counseling, we have an education part of the program.
That is really where we are seeing the effects.

Mr. SANFoRD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ZeELirr. Thank you all very, very much for your testimony.
It was very, very helpful. And I wish we could have you be able
to give this same message to every community in America, I think
it is very helpful to what we are trying to accomplish. Thank you
very much. [Applause.]

We will hear from this panel and then we are going to open it
up to community questions. I will start the introductions. Dr. Er-
nest Cantley is president and CEO of Stewart-Marchman Center,
Ms. Marge LaBarge is from the Orange County School System; Mr.
Jim Dawson is program supervisor of the Drug Free Schools Pro-

m for Sanford; Mr. Wolfgang Halbig is director of security for
Seminole County Schools.

Thank you folks for being here, and if you would please stand
and raise your right hands.

[Witnesses sworn.]

Mr. Zeuirr. Thank you. Dr. Cantley, if you would like to start.
If you would, just in the interest of time, kind of condense as much
as you can into about 5 minutes and then we obviously will take
all your testimony for the record. Thank you.

STATEMENTS OF DR. ERNEST CANTLEY, PRESIDENT AND CEO,
THE STEWART-MARCHMAN CENTER; MARGE LABARGE, OR-
ANGE COUNTY SCHOOL SYSTEM; JIM DAWSON, PROGRAM
SUPERVISOR, DRUG FREE SCHOOLS PROGRAM, SANFORD,
FL; AND WOLFGANG HALBIG, DIRECTOR OF SECURITY, SEM-
INOLE COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD

Dr. CANTLEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Com-

mittee. I too would like to thank Congressman Mica for arranging
‘to have this subcommittee here. If nothing else, it certainly has
proved to be extremely beneficial to the audience to see the co-
operation that we have amongst the various elements involved here
in this drug abuse effort.
.__ LU have had the chance to review on C-SPAN many of the meet-
ings of this committee and have been somewhat encouraged to see
General McCaffrey and other individuals talk about the need to
look for better solutions, a more effective balance, if you will, be-
tween demand and supply side activities. And that is a little bit
about the gist of what I want to talk about.

I have been working in the field of addiction since 1970. I had
the pleasure of being with one of NIAAA’s original staffing grant


80

you and the other panelists, in getting this message to we who
serve at the Federal level.

So thank you so much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you all very, very much for your testimony.
(Applause.]

‘he way we are wong, to do the next, I am going to turn the
chair over to John Mica, who will do the final piece, which will be
the community involvement group. And apparently everybody
knows who they are, there are about 10 here. Will each of those,
if you would use the podium over here and try to limit your testi-
mony to 3 minutes, whether it be a question or a statement. And
then if we have any time, we will both be here—I guess this is
going to be used for a traffic court at 2 o’clock, so we have about
an hour. And any extra time, we will divide it up first come-first
served. So the new Chairman Mica, would you——

Mr. Mica [presiding]. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
first call up—is it Heidi Pinney and Sarah Clark and Chris Morris.
They are three Lake Mary High School students who conducted a
survey of their students, their fellow students, regarding drug use.
Each of you are recognized for 3 minutes and we would like to hear
the results of your report to our committee. Thank you.

STATEMENTS OF CHRIS MORRIS, HEIDI PINNEY, AND SARAH
CLARK, LAKE MARY HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS

Mr. Morris. Thank you. First of all, we are here to represent
Lake Mary High School and we are presenting some information
that we gathered by surveying randomly approximately 100 stu-

lents.

Approximately like three-fourths of the students surveyed be-
lieved that since they have attended Lake Mary High School, there
has been a visible increase in drug use, and 36 percent of the stu-
dents said they had been offered either cocaine or heroin in the
past.

But only 31 percent of those students feel there is a serious drug
problem, half of them believe it is somewhat serious and 19 percent
think there is no problem at all.

Many of those students believe that drugs are not a difficult
thing to acquire, 95 percent surveyed felt that alcohol is easily ac-
cessible, 83 percent think marijuana is easy to get, 58 percent be-
lieve LSD is not a problem to get and a few voiced concern that
Spanky, the campus’ drug dog, was eliminating the usage of mari-
juana on campus. I guess they think that it is an excuse to bring
other drugs that the dog cannot smell and detect. .

Of the students surveyed, 26 percent said cocaine and heroin
were easy to obtain if they wanted it.

Heidi.

Mr. Mica. And are you Sarah or Heidi?

Ms. PINNEY. I am Heidi. .

Mr. Mica. Go ahead, Heidi. Without objection, we will make
these part of the record. Thank you. You are recognized.

Ms. PINNEY. Thank you.

First of all, the students said that you really cannot compare her-
oin and marijuana together, because they are two extremes of two
totally different drugs. Heroin is an addictive drug the first time


13

efficient ways of funding our office and that is basically as far as
I believe we need to talk about money for our office because we
really do not want Federal money for our office. There are too
many strings, it is too hard to use. It is a pain in the neck to us.
(Laughter.]

So you say well why are you here, what do we want you to do
with your money? We would like you to use your money to do what.
I believe, as a lawyer, the Constitution endows certain powers upon
the legislature and the Federal Government. I heard General
McCaffrey the other night say or he made a pledge that he would
fulfill that one obligation to Protect our borders from enemies. That
is where I think the Federal money should be going right now. We
have got all those troops in Bosnia protecting the Bosnians from
each other. We have got troops all over the Caribbean, not over
there on the drug-keep task force, and we have got them in a vari-
ety of other places in the world. I am a retired military officer. I
went to a few of those places. I was in that last police action that
we had in Vietnam, and perhaps that is where we got this attitude
toward the war on drugs. [Applause.]

The troops that are stationed all around the world and the troops
that are at Fort Bragg—I was just there a few weeks ago and saw
them, they are all there, they are training. We have got the largest
Navy in the world with ships—where are they? They are all around
the world, but where are they in the Caribbean, stopping this her-
oin and a variety of other drugs coming into our borders. We would
like you to spend your money—do not worry about giving——

Mr. ZELIFF. Can I interrupt you for a second?

Mr. Vos. Yes, sir.

Mr. ZELIFF. Our money—yours, mine, the chief's, the sheriffs, ev-
erybody, in the audience.

r. VOSE. I agree with you completely.

Mr. Zeirr. Thank you.

Mr. VosE. I agree with you completely. I also believe that the
Government is us and we are all the Government. We would like
you to spend that money to keep it out of here.

Blockades work. They have worked in a variety of situations.
Perhaps they have not worked too effectively for the Kurds, I guess
in northern Iraq, but they generally do work. And that is where we
would like you to spend that money.

That, however, is not going to stop the drug problem. I have been
a prosecutor for 23 years now. The statistics change, they go up
and they go down, but as the sheriff said, the majority of crime is
linked to drugs and narcotics and alcohol. We are not going to stop
it unless the family assists. How do we help the family? Please do
not let people delude you in saying it is because there are single
families or single parent families out there, that is the problem. My
mother raised me as a waitress in Miami, sent me off to the Army
and I eventually went to college and law school. She made 25 cents
an hour, she was not rich, she could not put cocaine on the table
I guess like that family in Arizona. But there are millions of single
men and women around this country that raise kids and they turn
out to be great kids. [Applause |

ere is going to be a percentage of our youth that are going to
use drugs. We cannot stop them from doing it. We can try to ed


55

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida
Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, Intemational Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14, 1996 Page 2

have also experienced the ever changing types of drugs available to users, and their effects upon
individuals in our society. Our society has been significantly altered as a result of illicit drug
consumption. The major societal changes occurred with the introduction of “Crack Cocaine” in
Tate 1984 and early 1985. 1 do not believe there has ever been a more significant set of
circumstances to effect our everyday living as the cocaine epidemic, that was caused by the
development of “Crack”. Within two years after Crack’s introduction, we began to experience its
devastating effects, including: increases in criminal activities: constant overcrowding of our
detoxification and emergency centers: substance exposed infants; ever expanding waiting lists for

individuals to get into treatment programs: massive increases in expenditures necessary to house a

larger number of our citizens in jails and prisons; and. more expenditures on interdiction and

source country efforts.

Congress, has been searching for solutions to this nation’s drug and alcohol problems for over
twenty-five years. The Presidents Office of National Drug Control Strategy (ONDCP) has been
the vehicle for developing the national strategy since the early 1980's, 1 have had the opportunity
to view some of this Subcommittee’s hearings and am encouraged by statements made by General
McCafferty, Admiral Robert Kramek of the US Coast Guard, and others who were advocating for
the position that this nation’s drug efforts needs to achieve a more appropriate balance between
supply and demand side activities. The Leyal Action Center published their analysis of the
percentages of ONDCP’s expenditures for supply and demand reduction. These figures are

depicted on the following chart.


2

like our efforts in terms of national leadership had fallen flat. So
we got very much interested in this as a subcommittee priority and
got involved with the Coast Guard, went down to source countries;
we have been to Panama where we talked about money laundering;
Mexico where we have gotten tremendously involved with—70 per-
cent of the cocaine that comes up from South America comes up
through Mexico; got involved with Colombia, flew into Colombia
the day after 11 people were killed, that was an interesting coun-
try. But very serious issues in terms of—and the courageous peo-
ple, they have lost 3,500 law enforcement people who are coura-
geously fighting the cartels in Colombia. Went to Bolivia, went to
the jungles of Bolivia where we had a chance to see and blow up
some cocaine labs, but see firsthand how it is produced and made
before it is shipped, and went into Peru as well. Met with Presi-
dent Fuzmori and discussed the shoot down policy that was work-
ing very well there.

What happens here as we get into source country programs, if we
can somehow stop the growing of the coca leaf and forcing it to be
withheld from the market, because if they cannot get it out of the
market, like in Peru, what happened there is the coca leaf starts
to pile up, farmers have to convert to other crops such as bananas
and products like that.

So, you know, as one small piece, that is a very effective part of
the war as well. And then you get into the transit zone and trying
to stop it from coming across the border. We had a meeting with
law enforcement this morning and we talked about the problems of
product coming up from Mexico, and we are working on a program
called Operation Gateway. We are looking at a five-legged stool
frankly, where you have programs that have to be balanced, they
have to be education, prevention, treatment, transit zone programs
and source country programs. So—and somehow, all of this as it
comes together, and you hear about your kids going to D.A.R.E.
programs, there are other programs out there, and your law en-
forcement working their hearts out at a great risk to their lives
and their families. But eventually the parents have to come in and
take a place and the community has to get involved. Eleven percent
of the parents today in this country are talking to the kids about
drugs. That means that 89 percent are not. And until we connect
and cross that bridge, there is no way your law enforcement com-
munity can do it all on their own. And all the resources in the
world, from the national level, will not make that happen either.

Our effort here, as we moved forward 2 years ago to try to get
recognition and media attention on the war on drugs to get us to
basically declare war on drugs. I would hope that we will see a day
that everybody that gets a Government Gavcheck has to be ran-
domly drug tested, including Members of Congress. And I hope that
day comes. My son is in the Marine Corps, they have a zero toler-
ance policy. Back in the 1980’s and the 1970's, they did not and
there is a big difference. And somehow we need to get to a point
where we are willing to address that and have a zero tolerance pol-
icy as well. ;

So I just thank again our two great leaders here from Florida
that represent you so well, and my other two colleagues that came
here today on such an important issue.


72

at a standstill. We can call the mother and you can say, because
you have reasonable suspicion, please empty your pockets, but if he
does not do it, all you have is open defiance, you suspend him for
10 days and you send him home. And he leaves with what, his
drugs in his pockets. The kids know what they can and cannot do
across this country.

Mr. SoupeER. If he was reported, why is that not probable cause?

Mr. HALBiG. It is reasonable suspicion. Because again, it did not
come to the police officer, it comes to a school administrator. We
are held to a lower standard than a police officer.

Let me show you something else we took off. This is all the stuff
we take off. Here we have the books, they have guns inside the
books, they have their drugs inside the books, they walk around
and also if I were to ask you, Congressman, where is the No. 1
storage area in public schools for drugs today, what would you say,
where would they store it?

Mr. SouDeER. I would say in their shoes or their pants.

Mr. HAusiG. That is right. It is no longer lockers, and we still
hear people saying it is in their lockers. They hide it in areas
where they know we cannot touch and search, whether it is male
or female.

And so what tools do we have available that allow us to take a
look? We do not have any tools. Is that not frightening? And that
is where the heroin, that is where the marijuana, that is where the
cocaine, whether female or male, they know exactly what they are
going to do. And we are educators, not policemen.

And again, they will hide it in their boots, and again I know we
are time limited. I want you to see this, whether it is a backpack,
whether it is this—do you search this when you try to search? Yes,
and in these here you will see a gun in here. Just go ahead and
open it up and you will see. Kids bring these little fanny packs in
here, they will bring backpacks. But again, whose job is it to look
and keep our schools safe.

Mr. Soupber. If I had tried to search him, I would have been put
in jeopardy.

Mr. HaA.sic. That is right. But see what I am saying? This goes
on every day. And let me tell you something. With U.S. Customs,
the one thing I have learned—there are two things I want to let
you know. When American citizens come back into this country,
they get searched. They do not have any rights when they come
back into our boundaries. Or if we leave to go to another country,
before we leave, we can be searched. We do not have any rights.
Somewhere in public schools, if we are going to make a difference,
public schools have to be sacred grounds, not to be disrespectful—
take these kids’ rights away. But I am going to tell you, there are
too many young people dying in our schools. Whoever thought a
teacher would die on a school campus in public school? We are los-
ing teachers left and right.

Mr. ZeLtrr. How about special education? We just changed that
law that special education kids have more rights than regular kids
to carry guns, concealed weapons, knives and things like that. We
just changed that law. It is scary.

I mean we have got to look at some of the laws and some of the
stupid things that we are doing as a society.


27

right thing to do is. And I feel very sorry for them. I have to put
them away in prison. Well, actually the judges put them away in
prison, we just present the evidence to them. I put a young 17-
year-old in prison for 30 years a couple of months ago for shooting
a police officer and shooting someone else. And this was an inter-
esting case because he had a great support group with him. He had
his mother, father, a whole big family saying what a great kid he
was. And yet here he was, shooting at least two people, probably

more.

Now who failed him? I do not know. But I know that we have
got to, as adults, give kids rules very early in life. Now they may
choose not to follow them, but if no one ever tells them what they
are, how can we blame them? We can put them away in jail, but
we cannot blame them really.

Mr. SANFORD. On that front, could I ask one more question, Mr.
Chairman?

Mr. ZELIFF. A tiny one.

Mr. SANFoRD. A tiny one. That is, as I understand it, based on
what I hear from court folks, ple tied within the court system
back home, that is we have failed some of the people—in other
words, we have not been an effective parent, if you want to call it
that. In other words, you say you are going to get 3 years, but you
are out in 18 months; you say you are going to get 5 years, you

et out in whatever time. With the exception of the Federal guide-
lines where it is pretty strong; at least at the State level, there is
a lot of sliding on the amount of time you actually serve. As I un-
derstand it with a lot of younger drug dealers back home, they will
go into the system, but they know they get out in a whole lot short-
er stay and therefore, it is not an effective deterrent. What do you
think would be the ideal time or punishment that in fact would
make for an effective deterrent?

Mr. VosE. Well, I really cannot answer that question. I am in the
executive branch, we enforce the laws, legislatures make laws and
I know yey are asking for advice, but I think the statutes we have
on the books in Florida are fine. The problem is that some years
ago we had an administration and a legislature that decided they
were spending too much money on prisons and did not want to
spend any more, so we got sentencing guidelines. We got sentenc-
ing guidelines, I guess it was in 1982, and basically no one went
to prison. And when they did go to prison, they did not stay long.
We have tightened those sentencing guidelines up and we saved
billions of dollars on building prisons but society suffered. We are
now building prisons and putti people away.

But I have an example here, this happened last week. This is an
e-mail from one of my prosecutors and it says, “This defendant who
is on probation for delivery of heroin, committed eight new of-
fenses, four deliveries of heroin, two possessions of heroin and one
possession with intent to sell.” So I went to the sentencing. This
person, we asked for 15 years for this person in prison, he is on
probation for delivering heroin. We asked for the judge to depart,

cause the sentencing guidelines only call for about 6 years in
prison for selling heroin while you are on probation for selling her-
oin. And the judge did, I think what he thought was a pretty tough
sentence, and we did not think it was tough at all. He gave him


70

see all the way across this country, here comes your student. You
are the assistant principal, you have just been notified that this
young man was dealing drugs in the restroom. And now knowing
what your guidelines are and procedures, you have to confront this
young man. And look how kids dress today in public schools across
this country. And I want you to know that this is really important.

Gentlemen, we are educators. I want you to know this, every per-
son who is an assistant principal, principal, school board members,
we do a great job educating, we are not police officers, we are not
drug counselors, we are not correctional officers and probation offi-
cers. But that is what is coming to us every day, and they are com-
ing at us in large numbers.

lere is a typical young man. You are the assistant principal, you
have just been made aware that he drove to school this morning
and he might have drugs on him, he just did a drug deal in the
restroom. And your job is to go ahead and deal with it. How would
you go about it?

Mr. SOUDER. So you get picked up in the restroom, I understand
you had drugs on you. Were you doing drugs, were you distributing
them?

STuDENT. I do not do that, he is just making fun of me because
I dress different, that is all, you are picking on me.

Mr. SouDER. Why do you think they pick on you?

STUDENT. I do not know, they have nothing better to do I guess.

Mr. SoupeEr. So you are saying that by the fact that a couple of
other people who say that they saw you, that they are just being
malicious even though they have never said anything about you be-
fore.

STUDENT. That is what I am saying.

Mr. SouDER. Would you be willing to submit to a drug test?

STUDENT. No. Have you got a warrant?

Mr. SouDER. Can I say yes? (Laughter.]

Mr. Hausic. That is what we wish we did, but we do not. And
again, as soon as they hear the word “no”, it gives you a knot in
your stomach, whether it is us or anyone else. But we are edu-
cators. As soon as you are trying to get to the next level and they
say “no”, where do you ge with it. Go ahead.

Mr. SOUDER, Do you have any friends who do drugs?

STUDENTS. Sure.

Mr. SOUDER. Have you seen them doing it on school grounds?

STUDENT. Lately?

Mr. SouDER. Yes, say like this morning.

STUDENT. No.

Mr. SouDER. But you have seen them lately doing it on school
grounds—last week?

STUDENT. Sure. .

Mr. SOUDER. Do you hang around with those kids?

STUDENT. Sure, why not. . .

Mr. SouDER. Would it not be natural then for other kids to think
that you are doing the Ss? a

STUDENT. That is their choice. What I do is my business. .

Mr. SoupER. So what you mean when you say what they do is
their business, you are saying that while your other friends do it,
you do not?


63

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida
Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14, 1996 Page 10

require bold and innovative solutions. I believe the State of Florida is developing a set of services
for delinquent adolescents that could become a model for the nation. Namely. these services are
being developed by the Florida Department of Juvenile Justice, under the direction of Secretary
Calvin Ross. The Department of Juvenile Justice has created a continuum of residential,
outpatient, and prevention services that appears to be having a significant impact upon juvenile
crime and consequently drug abuse within the State. Centering around public safety, every child
entering the juvenile justice system is evaluated to determine the most appropriate level of care
and placed in that system of supervision and treatment. Continual monitoring of the child occurs

throughout his/her commitment.

Thave the pleasure of operating some of these services at Stewart-Marchman Center for the
Department of Juvenile Justice. These services continue to receive positive outcome with an
average of twenty-two percent recidivism. Statewide, the Department reported a thirty-six (36%)
rate of recidivism for Fiscal Year 1994-1995. I believe ONDCP and Congress would benefit
from reviewing Florida's Juvenile Justice System as it is impossible to dissociate drug abuse from
delinquent and criminal behavior in our adolescent population.

Summary and Recommendations

Clearly, we are not winning the war on drugs. Recent trends indicate that we may be loosing the
war for our adolescent (12-17 year old) and young adults (18-25) populations. { believe we are
losing the battle because of a major flaw in our national strategy. This flaw is the percentage of
funds being spent on interdiction and source country initiatives to the detriment of prevention,

education and treatment.


20

mantled in 1992, 1993, 1994, up to 1995. I am sorry that the rep-
resentative from the Hispanic Chamber has left, because I did
want to also say that I believe we have fully funded the Coast
Guard effort around Puerto Rico, and the Coast Guard has that re-
sponsibility, plus now getting the military back involved, again
tl rough the leadership of this subcommittee, Chairman Zeliff and
others.

The question I have is, we are throwing a great deal of money,
you are at $15 billion. That is a sizable amount of money. We are
trying to make certain that that money is going into programs that
are effective. I have two questions, one for Judge Will. You said you
see 8,000 kids and you see 4,000 to 5,000, over half of that, in-
volved in a drug problem of some sort. What kind of social back-
ground are they coming from? Is it—you always have the percep-
tion that it is just coming out of the poor neighborhoods. What are
you seeing as the mix?

Judge WILL. Our mix is pretty much across the board with teen-
agers. Now again remember, we are talking about system affected
children, people who are in the delinquency or the dependency sys-
tem already.

Obviously we see more poor people than we do rich people. I
mean, it is that simply stated. But we are seeing tremendous num-
bers of people right up the middle. The great middle is occupying
our court right now.

Mr. Mica. You asked also, I think, for flexibility in the programs,
because if we get the funds here, you think you and local officials
can do a better job of assigning priorities and dealing with the is-
sues.

Judge WILL. Yes, I am absolutely positive of that. There is just
no question that the people in the individual communities will have
a better feel for what it is that is going on in their community than
someone from out of town. I mean, we all know that. The problem
is that the Federal Government has to be concerned somehow that
there will be a deviation from the policy if the money gets too far
removed from the control. And I understand that, but maybe
pumping it through the State somehow and exercising that control
at that level is probably a preferable method. I just think—my gen-
eral observation across the board is that we are failing in every ef-
fort that we are making as far as dealing with delinquency, de-
pendency, and the like. We seem to know what to do, but we just
cannot get to the point where we do it early enough and seriously
enough. And if we could make that transition to do that, I think
that we could. We need to experiment as we get there too, because
the tried and true methods are not—you know, they are tried, but
they are not true and we need to experiment until we find the ones
that do work and we need that kind of latitude in each of our com-
munities.

As we recognize different personalities and different abilities in
our communities, we need to work with that, I am positive of that.

Mr. Mica. Two last questions, one to Mr. Vose. You indicated
that Federal prosecution you were fairly pleased with, but some of
the statistics we had is that drug prosecutions have been down na-
tionally somewhere between 9 and 12 percent the last few years.
What is the record in central Florida, what are you seeing?


37

lando Police Department Detective R. Campbell rudely asked only
one question of Jonathan’s father, “How long has your son been
doing drugs?” His father replied, “He was not.” After that, only a
cursory investigation was made. The results were misstatements in
reports, no examination of Jonathan’s personal belongings or the
car which brought him to the hospital 4 hours after his death.
Even when one of the few witnesses questioned, the resident of the
apartment where the party occurred, stated that there was alcohol
and marijuana in the apartment, the detective did not take the
time to search that.

Where was all that lost physical evidence? What was the reason
no effective action was taken against these so-called friends? Was
it because when a person takes drugs, whether mistakenly or not,
and dies, it is their own fault and not the persons who provide the
lethal substances? No. It is murder to give, sell, or otherwise pro-
vide drugs that result in death to any person. Where are the ar-
rests and convictions in 27 heroin deaths that are already a part
of this tragedy? In the last year only 7 have died, but before that,
there have been at least 27, not counting the suicides.

Jonathan was a special person. He was bright, happy, popular,
and full of love for life. He excelled in sports, soccer, baseball, ka-
rate, skateboarding, and surfing-“his favorite. I feel it is just these
same good kids that the drug dealers are after, get those kids and
the rest will follow.

Jonathan did well in school, but it was in his freshman year in
Boone High School that he be; to experience the changes and ob-
stacles which face all teens. There are new friends, parties, raves,
peer pressure, and experimentation. They try to find out where and

ow they fit into a world which is increasingly more chaotic and
dangerous. Parents must face the fact that their perfect child is be-
coming an adult who will make decisions for themselves, good or
bad, and ultimately must be responsible for them. The challenges
are tremendous for both parents and teens, even when provided
with a loving, stable, and healthy home environment.

We tried to talk to Jonathan about drugs. He knew better, he
took a life management course in school, he knew about taking
Rohypnol and heroin together. He went to drug counseling, he was
going to get his license in a few days and he promised to pass a

rug test before he would even be allowed to get his license. That
did not stop anything.

We need action now. There must be immediate investigations, ar-
rests, and convictions in all drug-related deaths; better legislation

rotect America from drugs and those who deal them; more
widely available rehab and family counseling and drug-free schools.

We cannot afford to lose America’s future. It is too late to save
Blondee, but not too late for justice. I pray that we here today ma’
be able to spare others the heartache and loss that I have suffered,
and our efforts will help to protect all of God’s children.

I would like to read a little bit from Jonathan's autobiography,
so maybe you can know better what happens when we lose some-
one like this.

I have enjoyed life so far. It has had a few ups and downs, I have learned quite

a bit so far, but I am still in for a whole lot more. I love to be with my friends and
T love having fun.


57

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida
Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14,1996 Page 4

This analysis reveals that the ratio between supply and demand activities was roughly equal in
1981 (45% for demand and 55% for supply activities). This balance started being altered with
more funds being provided for supply side efforts in 1982 and has held roughly a 2:1 ratio ever
since. The funds allocated to ONDCP has increased steadily since 1981, however the ratio
between supply and demand has remained constant at roughly 2:1. There are many professionals
in the field that feel the basic reason we have not been successful in the “drug war" is vested in

this analysis.

1 do not appear before this subcommittee today claiming to be an expert in interdiction or source
country diplomacy. While I have a basic understanding of current world economies, | do not
consider myself as sufficiently informed to say that | understand the full ramifications of altering,
the illicit drug activities in Bolivia, Peru, Costa Rica, and other South America and Southeast Asia
countries. However, I do appear before you today as an individual who has spent over twenty-five
years on the demand side of the drug problem and am pleased to offer the following comments or

suggestions.

Issue Number One: Effectiveness of Treatment

Virtually every major study on the effectiveness of drug treatment reaches the conclusion that
treatment is effective. Regardless of this fact. | continue to have to respond to questions like,
“Does Treatment Really Work?” and “Can Individuals Recover From Heroin or Cocaine
Addiction”? In a continuing effort to answer these questions, ONDCP published a paper titled,

“Treatment Protocol Effectiveness Study,” (March, 1996). This paper described three


23

Mr. Beary. It all depends on the drug. Different drugs come in
different ways. You name the drug and there is——

Mr. SoupER. OK, cocaine.

Mr. ESLINGER. Cocaine, south Florida. a .

Mr. SouDER. And heroin, because most of the origin is Asian or
Colombian, it would come in probably from New York more or from
the West? .

Mr. ESLINGER. Brown heroin is Chicago, Mexico, Texas, Los An-
geles. We are seeing south Florida as well as Puerto Rico. | .

Mr. SoupER. And marijuana mostly you are saying is coming
from the West through Mexico and Texas? .

Mr. ESLINGER. The cases that we work in the north end of Semi-
nole County are coming—it is coming from Mexico via Texas.

Mr. SoubERr. And are you seeing the more potent marijuana? In
California in our recent hearing there, DEA said that it was, the
average marijuana was 28 percent THC as opposed to the previous
high in the late 1960's and early 1970’s being 6.7, an average of
2.5, being that the marijuana is more like the potency that harder
drugs used to be?

Mr. ESLINGER. FDLE, our State lab, cannot do that analysis or
has not done that analysis.

Mr. SoupDER. Because it would put a whole different perspective
on marijuana if marijuana is that much more spotents not that it
was not devastating to many of my friends in the late 1960’s and
early 1970's as well.

I wanted to ask Judge Will a couple of questions—make a couple
of comments and get a reaction to it.

I do not think there is a probation officer anywhere in the United
States who is not completely overwhelmed—grant that right up
front. I also think this whole funding question of how much flexibil-
ity we give, we have accountability to the taxpayers, they are hold-
ing us accountable. We want to give as much flexibility as possible,
we need to give some guidance because we are held accountable for
having raised the tax money. If you get that too disconnected, there
are problems too. Yet we realize the local flexibility question. We
are also concerned about—there was allusion to some wayward
judges in California, that law enforcement were increasingly get-
ting people who experiment not with what the people intend with
the money.

But I spent a number of years as Republican staff director in the
Children and Family Committee in the House before I moved over
to the Senate staff and then got elected to Congress. I am also vice
chairman of the Children and Family Subcommittee in the Edu-
cation Committee where we are reworking the Juvenile Justice Act
along with what Chairman McCollum is doing over in his commit-
tee as well. His staff has been helping us because primary jurisdic-
tion lies in the Education Committee.

One of the problems that—a number of years I sat through some
seminars that were extremely depressing. Bob Waller, research
writer at the University of Tennessee had tracked for 20 years dif-
ferent juveniles and had worked with them. First they tried a little
heavier, intensive probation effects, then they tried moving the
family service people into the home for up to 3 hours, then they
tried putting them there for 72 hours. They tried paying mothers,


90

Mr. ZELIFF. You need that five-legged stool.

Mr. Mica [continuing]. Every front, or you are not going to solve
the problem. You let down your guard in one area—f think it was
Sheriff Eslinger said it is like mercury, you push it in one place
and it pops out in another.

I would like to recognize at this time James R. Purdy, with
Tracking Systems Security. You are recognized, sir, for 3 minutes.

STATEMENT OF JAMES R. PURDY, TRACKING SYSTEMS
SECURITY

Mr. Purpy. Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?

Mr. MICa. Yes.

Mr. Purpy. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Mica, I want to thank
you for giving me these few moments.

Ladies and gentlemen, I speak from experience. I am 69 years
of age, I have been a member of the American Bar for 39 years,
I am a retired public administrator and I am an adjunct instructor
at the University of Central Florida and Congressman Mica has ad-
dressed my students.

I come with some suggestions which may help with the utiliza-
tion of the—the maximum utilization of Federal funds. I am going
to keep my remarks as brief as I can.

First, the mayor from Maitland put his finger on it: education.
I would suggest to the Chair and to Co: ssman Mica that when
you go b to Washington, that you take a look at the program
that HUD has used to take back and to sell to stimulate the econ-
omy those homes that have gone into foreclosure. They do a great
deal of advertising in the media in . general, and I am saying to you
that if you in fact utilize some of those Federal dollars to do more
advertising in the black media which can reach 20 million house-
holds in a week, you will make a dent in this drug problem.

No. 2—and by the way, that office that handles that is located
in New York, I believe it is called Black Media, Inc.

No. 2, unlike the movies, I have received training with the New
York Police Department in what we call Manhattan South, that is
Kojak territory for those of you who watch TV. I am a licensed pri-
vate investigator here in the State of Florida. And I say to you this,
if you want to maximize even further utilization of Federal dollars,
resort to the block grants. And I cite you a specific example. If you
check with Chief ary, W-h-e-a-r-y, of the Asbury Park, NJ Po-
lice Department, and also check with the Department of HUD for
the block grant that they gave in 1987 to reduce crime in the
Franklin Delano Roosevelt Housing Project, I think you will see
that the results are as follows.

Within 1 calendar year, under a block grant, the crime rate was
reduced by 33 percent, confirmed. I know because I happened to
work on that project. And I am saying that if you take your dollars,
use the block grants in such a fashion. The media for education,
start by maximizing the maximum number of people who may in
fact be attracted to drugs or who even may want to sell them, you
will make a further dent. After approximately 6 months, we had

arents using hard love, they were reporting on children and we
Fad children reporting on families. Check with the Asbury Park
Housing Authority, I think they will verify it.


44

Congressman Mica, elected officials, and interested citizens:

My name is Barbara Hill-St. Clair. You are I are here today
because we are deeply concerned about the drug problems that are
drastically taking a toll on young lives. We are desperately
searching for answers.

Eleven years ago I came to House of Hope because of family
and drug-related problems. I was raised in a dysfunctional
family, with an alccholic father, and other family members with
drug problems. My family was falling apart. 1 began running
away from home. 1 was snatched into a lifestyle of doom,
disease, destruction and almost death ... overdosing on drugs at
the age of 13 years old.

The deep emotional scars of teenagers involved in drugs do
not heal overnight. I was in and out of many secular programs
(hospitals and detention centers), without receiving any lasting
help. It wasn't until coming to House of Hope that the
nightmares and hurts of my past were healed. It was through the
counseling, education and love of God shown through the dedicated
staff at House of Hope that my wounded heart was restored and I
was reconciled with my family. Today, 11 years later, I am
happily married and my husband and I are both on staff at the
House of Hope.

Iam here tceday tc represent Sara Trollinger, Founder &

President of House cf Hope. Sara is now in North Carolina
speaking at the opening of the House of Hope in Raleigh.
Sara said, and I qucte: “The problems sf drugs affecting and

destroying our teenagers will not gc away cy themselves ... they
will not go away by more rules and laws; neither will they go
away by governmental control. Making more money available to
fund more government controlled, secular programs in not the
solution.

When President Reagan visited House cf Hope in 1990, he

said: "Secular programs are not the answer. There needs to be
more Houses of Hope in every city across our nation." The real
answers come as a result cf heart changes ... not in creating

“yillages", but in educating parents with values and sk

is, te
show the love of God to their children.

House of #

pe has a 953 success rate of getting young people
off drugs and restored wi therr families. Family
reconciliation and restoration is our goal. We are teaching

parents =O asstme gerscnal responsibility for raising their
children and teaching them character p based on God's
werd. Sur young people are sur most = us natural resource
nd America’s

The family problems cannot be solved by
governmental control, but by getting the message to parents that
they need to be responsible. Only God's Word works."


85

time, we cannot rely on the police to take care of us—we have to
do something about it ourselves. And so I urge everybody that
hears this message today to become involved, to take that next
step, to call your Congressman, to form parent groups. .

I serve in another capacity in this State and that is the president
of the Florida Prevention Association. And we tried desperately to
get parents and other people to join that agency and tell our pre-
vention message. You have heard it from the kids, you have heard
it from the police, and you have heard it from every area. Now it
is your turn. Let your voice be heard, let people know that you can
make a difference as parents and as community leaders. The busi-
ness community especially needs to stop and take toll. .

I will not belabor this any longer, I ik you for the opportunity
for being here and I applaud your efforts and we will be happy to
work with you in any way that we can.

Mr. Mica. Thank you, Joan Ballard.

And we will now hear from Richard Jones, who is president of
the Florida Narcotics Officers Association. Mr. Jones, you are rec-

ognized.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD JONES, PRESIDENT, FLORIDA
NARCOTICS OFFICERS ASSOCIATION

Mr. Jones. I prepared for about 5 minutes, so if you can bear
with me, I will try to keep it as brief as Possible. I just want every-
body to know before I get started that I do work for Orange County
Sheriffs Office. I have worked the streets undercover for about 7
years, working in the trenches with these people, so I know how
they think and I have gotten real involved in that area.

I did not come here today to quote statistics, I have come to

uote reality and offer resolves. Because of limited time, I have
chosen to briefly bring to your attention two areas which have the
greatest potential for eliminating the drug problem in this country.

Did you know that in the United States, there is virtually no
town too small or too remote that you cannot find illegal drugs sold
or used. That is a frightening observation. This is a large country.
If you will all do your math, it does not take a rocket scientist to
figure out the magnitude of the amount of drugs it takes to supply
every city in the United States. We are losing the war on drugs,
and when I say war, I mean war. The answer to this lies at our
borders. I ask has anyone ever seen poppies or coca leaves growing
in this country. Obviously, no.

I am a great believer in freedom and truly believe that this is
the greatest, most powerful country on the face of the Earth. But
during a state of war, we have to sacrifice a few freedoms for the
good of our country. Gentlemen, we must officially and congression-
ally declare war on illegal drugs entering this country. In order to
be effective, this will require the same enthusiasm and attention
that we would give to any entity invading our borders in an at-
tempt to overthrow the Government and the people of the United
States of America.

Simply put, we have to quit playing around and get serious. Do
not make this another Vietnam, where we do just enough to keep
the status quo. We need to fight to win.


62

Dr. Emest D. Cantiey, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida

Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14.1996 Page 9

© Itis likely that the child will be born into a family who has suffered from the

ramifications of substance abuse, either by one or both of the parents, or by other

members of the family:

‘The mother of today’s child is much more likely to an active substance abuser than

any other time in American history:

‘The child of today receives significant direction from television, therefore Bevis and

Buthead are assisting today’s families in their children’s maturation:

* Today's children. from an early age, are bombarded by music which glorifies the use

of illicit drugs:

The sports heroes of today are likely to be a user of illicit drugs In addition, penalties

for detection are minimal, ie.. a recent football player received a five game

suspension for being caught in a hotel room with a prostitute and in possession of
marijuana and cocaine:

© Today's minority child is taught from the beginning that the rest of society continues
to discriminate against them. Criminal justice statistics tend to bear out this
allegation;

‘© African-Americans of today appear have lost their positive role models, with children
idotizing drug dealers who drive the finest automobiles, wear the nicest clothes, and
most expensive jewelry:

Children of today are likely to have been physically or sexually abused, usually by a

member of their own family

Given the preceding facts, it should not be surprising to anyone that our youths of today are

experimenting more with drugs than their previous generations. These multifaceted problems


86

Moving on to my second and probably the most important pro-
posal, during my career of fighting drugs, I have made many obser-
vations. I have studied why people use drugs and have found many
reasons why. The most common reason that every drug user and
addict in the world will cite for using drugs is it makes them feel
good. That sounds kind of simple. They feel good and eventually
that feeling becomes an addiction.

Now we can look to rehab programs which are expensive and
have a very small percentage of success when crack cocaine and
heroin are concerned. Jail sentences get more people off drugs than
any other program we have. And that program is already in place.

So let us look at where the money can be best spent. The answer
is antidrug education. It is just like tobacco products. Over a long
period of time, we have gradually educated the people of this coun-
try to the fact that the use of tobacco products are not worth the
end result of health complications and possible death. Yes, edu-
cation is the key.

The one most successful and effective program that has ever
been created is the D.A.R.E. Program. This program truly reaches
the children at an impressionable age before their minds have been
influenced by peer pressure and the lure of the streets. I am sad-
dened that some communities have given up on this program say-
ing that it does not work or it is too expensive. The program has
not failed, we have failed by not providing the followup education.
You would not teach a child addition without following up with
subtraction, multiplication, division, et cetera. That would only be
part of an education.

I would advocate that instead of giving up, we follow up. It is do
not give up, follow up. We should begin our followup in eighth
grade. This is the age peer pressure intensifies. This program
should be tailored to more reality and shock value. It should be
based on what real heartbreak and destruction drugs can bring to
a person’s life and bolster the choices that they have in life. If only
this one followup program could be implemented, it would greatly
increase the success stories for tomorrow’s children. I also believe
that to continue this natural education progression, a more intense
program should be provided at the 10th grade level. At this age is
when most teenagers reach their rebellious stage of development
and begin looking for their identities. Schools should not be just for
reading, writing, and arithmetic. It should also build character and
mold our children for their future role in society as adults.

I have been told by some educators that they did not feel they
should have to be the teacher and these kids’ parents at the same
time. Well the fact is that a good majority of children in this coun-
try—and yes, it is being J tly related to our drug problem—are
not getting the social s! ifis and moral values they need from the
home environment.

So why not put forth the effort and money, which would be well
spent, to teach children to make correct choices in life and resist
getting involved in drugs in the first place.

I know I am running a little long here and I just want to sum
things up. Enforcement—stopping the flow of drugs into this coun-
try would ease the burden on local law enforcement by reducing
the availability of two main sources of concern—cocaine and heroin.


31

Mr. C. DuryEA. Sure.

I am Carey, I am an alcoholic and addict. I used for about 4
years and I started out using, you know, just pot. I did not think
it was such a big deal. Just about everybody in the high school that
I thought was cool was using it. I started out in middle school and
I did not use very much, it was not a problem and no one knew,

ou know what I mean? And that is how it started and eventually
Y got tired of smoking pot, it did not do what it used to for me.

I used acid, I started moving up, started using different drugs.
It became harder for me to cover it up from my parents, stay away
from the cops, and support my habit that I had already started and
did not know. I did not know that I was becoming dependent on
the drugs.

After awhile the consequences started coming up. I got arrested
and one time I was out at a party and some of my friends—they
were not close friends, but they were friends. I walked out and I
said what is the problem because I thought they had stole one of
my—this girl’s beeper and, you know, they just broke my jaw, just
because they wanted to start a fight, no better reason.

My life became like miserable, and I knew nothing different. You
know, what was my life without using drugs and stuff, I was a
dork. I thought I was stupid. I was a smart kid, I was very smart,
but I used all my mental energy into conning my parents, saving
up money to buy drugs, getting drugs fronted. I spent my life, you
know, my whole life was centered around drugs.

Eventually I was smoking crack, sitting on the ground, looking
for crack for hours because I did not have any money. y dru;
dealers were after me, I had dug myself a large hole with debt, and
I still did not see a problem with it. The only problem was my par-
ents, they were bothering me and the cops were in my way, you
know. And the only problem I had was I could not get enough
drugs to support my habit. That is what I thought the problem
was.

I was completely oblivious to a drug problem, alcoholism. My
friends and I used to Jaugh about being an alcoholic or an addict
and stuff. I do not think there would be anything that would have
stopped me from doing it except being in treatment.

low I have my life back together, now I am in treatment.

Something also I heard before, you know, my parents were good

parents, you know what I mean, they were brought up good. My
parents were not—they are just normal parents and when they
first found out I was using drugs, they did not think it was a big
deal. You know, they felt inadequate as parents, they felt like they
did the wrong thing with me. And they did not, they just did not
know any better. ir awareness was not as good as it should
have been. Most parents do not know about how many kids out
there use drugs and the peer pressure. All the people in my high
school, you know, looked up to me because I was a drug dealer. I
was a person who did not care if I got hit, you know. I did not
care—I did not care, I had no cares at all. I was the bad butt
around school and stuff.

Eventually it came to a point to where I had to like slow down
at least. I slowed down for a week and I justified using more drugs.
I said well I just cut down a little bit, just use Rohynol every once


7

shire, very rural. I represent a little town of 642 people and we
have got our problems. So it is not just rural, it is not just city,
it is everywhere. . .

A guy that has been very much working hard on this, Indiana,
Fort Wayne and some of the problems that you have been dealing
with—Mark Souder, thank you very much for being here.

Mr. SoupER. Thank you very much. I too want to congratulate
both our chairman for his persistent leadership on this in really
bringing it to the attention of Bob Dole over a year ago, bringing
it to the attention of our Speaker when he visited and went moose
hunting with Chairman Zeliff. And partly because of those two
things we brought it front and center, not just in our committee,
but in the national level. Congressman Mica, back when nobody
wanted to talk about it, often would grab me or grab Bill or others
and say let us go down to the floor and pound on this a little bit
again and try to get somebody’s attention with it, because the cut-
backs we saw in this past—basically in 1993 and 1994, in not only
the drug czar’s office but in interdiction resulted in such an in-flow
of drugs into this country, that there is very little that treatment
programs or education programs or local police forces can do when
you see the supply go up, the purity go up, the price drop down
and in northeast Indiana, we were absolutely flooded. Often you
hear that it is a victimless crime, as though the victims did not
matter, who often die, but it Supposedly does not reach other peo-
ple. But just last week—well, first off, as we will probably hear
today, the relationship to all crime is overwhelming, whether it is
the theft or the actual influence of drugs on the individual.

But when we were in Phoenix, AZ last Thursday and then went
down to the Mexican border at Nogales, which is—in Fort Wayne,
we do not have an international border, it comes up through Flor-
ida or our biggest case just recently was $1 million of crack taken
down that had come up through Nogales and in through St. Louis
into Fort Wayne. But as we looked at that and heard a number of
testimonies, we had one lady who was in a shelter who said that
she had basically a decent marriage, had some problems but her
husband started abusing drugs and then out of the blue started to
try to kill her and had her down and basically had her choked and
her little girl started screaming. She maneuvered away, they es-
caped, they are in a shelter. And she said they fear every day for
their lives, whether they are going to be killed or whether the ad-
diction will kill him first. And the terror in her voice and the shaki-
ness and worrying about her little daughter being killed should
send a message that it is not just an individual taking their life
into their hand, they are often threatening others.

We also heard from a teacher who had not really focused on it
much, but started to talk with her class in a very affluent area just
north of Phoenix, and she said that one of the kids said that the
mother would set up lines of cocaine on the dining room table for
that daughter and her friends when they would come home.

I mean, it is a nightmare all over this country and it is not some-
thing that is just impacting one person at a time. We are in a war,
we have to be prepared to be in a war. We are all in this together
and I came down today because I know John has been a leader and


46
Mr. Mica. Ms. Long, what about the public versus the private

m?

is. LONG. The program that I went through and that I am in
the after-care section, is privately owned. I do not know like the
legal side of things or whatever, but I do know because of it being
a private organization, it was more like a family thing, like every-
one knew each other and SAFE. What I went through, and it was
long term and I can really tell that the people were there because
they wanted to be. Just like I am there because I want to be, not
because just for the money or whatever. It is to give back what I
had because the counselors there were extremely, extremely coop-
erative and very patient with me, especially when I did not want
to do anything. I received a lot of help there. Because of that, I do
not know if there would be a huge difference. I do not know like
the financial stuff, but because I think knowing that it was private,
I felt more cared for because somebody was taking time out to do
it. Someone was spending money to do this and helping people out.
The SAFE program was really quite an experience and I would
never hope that I would have to do it again, but if I had a choice,
I would—the outcome of things, I would do it.

Mr. Mica. Carey, did you see any difference?

Mr. C. Duryea. In my past, a lot of my friends had probation
counselors and stuff and they are just—the probation counselors
were really weak. You know, they let them get by with, “oh, I will
come by and get that essay you are supposed to write for me next
week, or you cannot take that, you are in tests right now, OK.” You
know, everything was so just like weak, there was no accountabil-
ity, there was no honesty, there was no anything. It was just a
bunch of kids, drug addicts, feeding a bunch of probation officers
a bunch of crap. That is what it was.

My dad did not want that to happen, so I did not get on that
thing. But I do not know exactly what you are talking about, what
programs you are talking about.

Mr. Mica. The private versus public. Ms. St. Clair is with a non-
governmental program, it is privately funded and probably more
Christian church religious faith versus the public, secular pro-
grams. You are talking about the system and your experience with
that would be the secular side. Did you have any private treatment
experiences?

ir. C. DurRYEA. Yeah, I am in the same treatment center that
Bethany was in, SAFE. She is on after-care, I am on fifth days now
and there are phases and stuff. To be honest with you, those secu-
lar programs do not work. I went through the JAS program and my
dad got it all set up for me so I would get my charges dropped and
stuff. I went out one night and got arrested with my friend’s wallet
because I stole it from him, $360. I had to pay my drug dealer off,
you know. I was all wrapped up in it, it did not matter to me. If
I could get away with it would. But in SAFE my friends hold me
accountable, you know, I get in trouble, if I do something wrong,
my friends stand me up and I get in trouble, you know. So it is
based on like strength and strong love, not just weak love like OK,
you can do that, you know, ling someone to do something to
get their acceptance. It is not like that, it is strength. I do not al-


6

subject in Orlando, some are misinterpreting the remarks that I
have made about the problem with the interdiction in Puerto Rico.
I have never intended, nor do I now imply that this drug traffick-
ing is a problem of Puerto Rico or the Puerto Rican community,
represented very heavily in central Florida. The fact of the matter
is that Puerto Rico itself is suffering enormously under this drug
trafficking problem. The truth is that the island needs to be
cordoned off with all of the Air Force, the Army, the Navy, what-
ever it takes to do that, to stop the drugs from getting into Puerto
Rico, which is a part of the United States, and stop the drugs from
coming here. The traffickers, the Colombians and the folks who are
in the area around the Dominican Republic primarily, that is what
I am being told by the DEA and the FBI. And our Puerto Rican
community here in Orlando and central Florida suffers along with
the rest of us as a result of this fact.

My primary concern again is how do we stop this and what do
we do working together as a community with our committees to do
that.

So I am pleased you are here. I will not be able to stay the whole
day with your subcommittee, but I will be here for awhile and I
thank you for letting me come by this morning, and welcome.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you, Chairman McCollum, and we appreciate
your being able to stop by.

I would just like to say relative to your comments on Puerto Rico,
we met with Governor Risseo on several occasions. We were
down—most recently I went down with General McCaffrey and
spoke to the national Governors down there. Basically we need to
get in a partnership and that is what this thing is all about and
we need to—and he has been a great Governor in terms of his com-
mitment to the war on drugs. So it was—I would just like to men-
tion that that partnership is going to work and I think we will
start seeing some effects of it shortly.

Mr. McCou.v. If the chairman would yield, I have also been in
recent contact with them. Their government is wonderful to work
with on this subject, you are absolutely right, and we are going to
hold a Crime Subcommittee hearing on the witness protection pro-
gram question that is controversial, with their cooperation, because
they really want to be able to explain that. And I think they should
be allowed to explain what they are doing with it, and let the
American public and local folks understand it better.

Mr. ZELIFF. I understand that is an issue that popped out in the
recent few days.

Mr. McCoL.u. Yes, it did. And we are not at all sure the scope
of it or maybe the dramatics of it may be a little overstated.

Mr. ZELIFF. But I think the key here is it is a partnership, we
need to work together. We are finding this in Mexico as well. Now
that there is an interest in Mexico, I think we can start really mak-
ing some progress there. So I think working with all these coun-
tries together as a joint effort, making them aware and we become
aware of how important this is to our future for all our countries,
and frankly for the world. So thank you.

I just would like to say that it is interesting, you all have a prob-
lem here in south Florida and in this community on drugs. We
have a problem in Jackson, NH, in the mountains of New Hamp-


40

di Ms. Lona. Hi. I am Bethany. I am a recovering alcoholic and ad-
‘ict.

I started using drugs when I was 12, it was in the back of the
schoolroom like in geography class or whatever, and I was doing
this inhalant that they had in the back of the room. Nobody had
any idea what it was that I was doing.

Eventually I ended up getting into alcohol and over-the-counters
because those are OK, and prescriptions and a couple of things that
I knew that would not show up on drug tests. If I smoked mari-
juana or did any other drug like that, that means that I was going
to be using drugs. But if I used, you know, over-the-counters that
you can get at the drugstore on the corner or prescriptions from the
medicine cabinet or drank because drinking was OK—that is what
I thought—then I was not a drug addict.

Eventually I did not have any family, my schooling was bad. I
used to play the violin when I was real little and did really well,
and eventually I did not do that anymore. I lost many friends,
some that I will never be able to get back. I lost my self-respect,
I lost opportunities that I could have had, you know, to have a very
successful life. I came from a middle class family. My parents did
get divorced when I was like 10 years old, I have two sisters who
did good in school. My mom was supporting us and doing well, but
I still ended up using drugs. And I even went to school and they
told me that I had a problem, but they could not tell my parents
because of this confidentiality stuff. So I would go and tell them
and my parents had absolutely no idea that I was stealing their al-
cohol, that I was stealing, you know, pills that were supposed to
help you when you were sick, to try and get high off them. I used
to do them at school and people knew, but they did not say any-
thing.

Mr. ZELIFF. So as a result of all this discussion at school, nobody
talked to your parents or your parents were not even brought into
the loop.

Ms. LonG. No. I went to see—there was a drug counselor there
and I went to go see her because somebody had put in a concern
that, you know, one of my friends is drinking and stuff like that,
but they could not contact my parents and tell them this is what
your kid is doing, but they could contact them and say she is hav-
ing behavior problems. So my parents put me in a behavior center
and I ended up doing drugs in that center. And they told me it was
my parents that were my problem, and not me using drugs and ev-
erything—it was them. And of course, I used that to my advantage
and said OK, it is my parents, so I moved out away from my mom
and moved with my dad, and I started getting into marijuana, LSD
and doing a lot of pills and doing a lot of drinking.

Mr. ZELIFF. And this was at age 11?

Ms. LONG. It started at age 12, this was about age 14 to 15. I
was always good in church, I went to church and I went and did
certain things, but it did not matter.

And eventually I came into treatment, I came into the SAFE pro-
gram, substance abuse, family education. It was long-term. It took
me awhile to get through it, but now it is totally different and I
think that what a lot of people miss is that this disease is going


19

Mr. EsLINGER. Yes, I think it was as a result of an environment.
You know, if you look back to the 1960’s and 1970’s, drugs were
considered to be mildly risque. You saw in all the movies, sheik
parties, sporting events. I mean there was an atmosphere of toler-
ance, and as a result of that, I think we have sent mixed signals
and I think that we can work together to eradicate or at least fa-
cilitate a change in our attitudes. And I think that is what it really
boils down to, is getting families more involved.

I do not know, and I do not think the judge or anyone else here
knows exactly—there is not one silver bullet, but rather it is a myr-
iad of different approaches that get back to empower people to
share responsibility with them.

And clearly, I want your money, Mr. Chairman—{laughter.]

Not speaking for Mr. Vose.

Mr. ZELIFF. Straightforward.

Mr. EsLINGER. We need all the help we can get here in Seminole
County.

Mr. ZELIFF. I appreciate that. And one of the responsibilities that
we have is we do not have unlimited resources and we are trying
to put resources where they work best, and that is why we are
doing this hearing here today. But once they get out into the field,
you Enow_—let me ask you a quick question. You described the level
of cooperation among all the agencies that are involved with the
use of that money. Do you feel that we have gotten over turf bat-
tles and all that kind of stuff?

Mr. ESLINGER. Without question, here in the middle district of
Florida, the Federal circuit, it is great cooperation with DEA, FBI.
However, I think we can better utilize our existing resources. The
administration of DOJ itself can be re-engineered or streamlined
and save millions upon millions of dollars, and put more agents on
the street. Again, stepped up enforcement is not the only answer;
however, I think we can do a better job of it. We have a great rela-
tionship with all the Federal agencies within the middle district,
we truly do.

Mr. ZELIFF. I would like to just add one quick thing and then I
will turn it over to John Mica. But Mr. Vose’s comments on too
many strings, too hard to use, you know, that kind of thing—what
we have tried to do with recent crime bills is put block grants back
to the State so that in New Hampshire, for example, the attorney
general's task force on drugs, for example, can pull together the
Federal, State, and local groups. We have done things in Man-

. chester, NH, and we have done that kind of thing where you can
take some resources, put together a grant request that involves all
of this and you can tailor make it to your individual city, because
sometimes what works in New Hampshire does not work here and
vice versa.

I see the red light is on. Mr. Mica.

Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My fellow Members from out of town, you see how fortunate I am
to have leaders like this in our community.

Mr. ZELIFF. Sure.

Mr. Mica. The testimony, the great testimony they provided
today. There is some good news and some bad news. The good news
is that we have in fact funded some of the programs that were dis-


14

cate them, there is a certain percentage of them that we are going
to have. And when they do get the drugs, then they end up in the
court system where myself and the judge have to take care of it.

Now in the last 3 years in central Florida, we have had an in-
crease in heroin cases—that were presented to our office. Now this
is somewhat misleading because the majority of large heroin traf-
fickers or large heroin cases go to the Federal courts. So before I
even mention our statistics, I would ask you to fund your Federal
court system, fund the Department of Justice and give them strict
instructions, as best you can, to prosecute drug traffickers. And
they do—do not get me wrong, they do. We have a great relation-
ship with them. But that is where the majority of the traffickers
go. We get the possessions and the minor deliveries. We went in
1994 from 125 to we will probably have about 180 this year.

In juvenile court, it is some astounding statistics. There are not
many of them—you would think there would be but generally we
do not prosecute juveniles as juveniles when they are into heroin,
we make them adults. But we had one in 1994, one heroin charge
in Orange and Osceola County. We expect eight this year. Now
eight is not many, but in 2 years to go from one to eight, that is
an enormous jump. I am not even going to try to do the math.

This is a drastic problem and drastic problems need drastic solu-
tions. I do not know how many of you fentlemen saw the movie
“Clear and Present Danger.” Millions of Americans did and I think
most of them agreed with the tactics in that movie. I think most
of them agreed with the tactics in the book. Shooting down drug
traffickers coming into this country I do not think fazed many peo-

le at all. There were other problems in that movie—the President
lying to people. That was not the issue that I saw in that movie.
I saw that most Americans in this country want you to get nasty
with drug traffickers, they want you to shoot them down. I do not
think they will shed a tear as long as we, inside this country, when
we capture them, handle them with due process—that is fine. But
please use your resources to keep them out of this country.

And I have talked long enough. Thank you again, gentlemen, for
coming here and we wish you the best.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you very much. {Applause.]

The Honorable Joseph Will, judge, seventh judicial circuit. Your
Honor, thank you. .

Judge WILL. Mr. Chairman, Congressmen, ladies and gentlemen,
my name is Joe Will, I am a judge in the seventh judicial circuit,
as you have heard. That is Volusia, Flagler, St. Johns, and Putnam
County. I do most of my work in Daytona Beach and in Deland,
where I have been a juvenile judge for just about 5 years now.

On the way over in the car this morning, I was trying to add up
the numbers. We do not stop every day and try to add them up,
but just trying to add them up, I am going to estimate that in the
last 5 years, I have seen 8,000 delinquent children and probably in
the neighborhood of 4,000 or 5,000 dependent children. And in the
course of those cases, probably 13,000 cases, I would estimate that
drugs or alcohol, primarily drugs, have been involved in 80 or 90
percent of those cases in a meani: | way that has seriously dis-
rupted the lives of children. In the dependency forum, we see most-
ly crack families. We do not talk a lot about crack, for some reason,


3

War on drugs needs to be declared and crime and s has to
be treated as an issue and combined. And I do not know of another
issue that is more important facing our country today. And some-
how, we are just going to have to declare war and pull out all the
stops, to the point where we can raise our hand and say we won
the war. We can put a man on the Moon as John F. Kennedy said
in 1960, certainly we can win the war on drugs.

With that, I would like to turn it over to our good colleague from
Florida, John Mica, for an opening statement. a.

Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for yielding
for an opening statement.

First of all, I want to take a moment to welcome you to central
Florida, to my district, a really beautiful area in Florida and in our
country, and thank Mark Souder from Indiana for coming and
spending his time with our community on this important issue, and
Mark Sanford from South Carolina, another leader in the Congress,
both leaders on this issue, and active in our committee and sub-
committee. And I certainly want to acknowledge and thank Bill
McCollum for his leadership for this area. He has been here long
before me and provided tremendous leadership in the Congress as
the Chair of the Criminal Justice Subcommittee in the Judiciary
Committee, and we have conducted joint hearings together.

This is, as I said a beautiful area, which unfortunately has been
the victim, like other parts of the United States, of increasing drug
abuse by our youth in the past few years. Our area has been par-
ticularly hard hit by heroin dust, with seven of our young people
recently falling victim to its fatal lure.

I brought these headlines and I have brought these to the House
floor and I have brought them to the hearing and IJ bring them to

our attention. It shows not only Detroit, MI, Los Angeles, New

‘ork, and other cities can be affected by this drug epidemic with
our young people, but you can see here also that our community
has fallen victim to this problem. It is sad to say that much of the
problem was to be predicted. In fact, I went numerous times to the

fouse floor and to our committee in the last Congress, to demand
both action and attention in the last Congress. Unfortunately, my
pleas fell on deaf ears and I want to thank the chairman, who has

eld nearly two dozen hearings and taken these hearings across—
the field hearings across the country. This is one of a series of
earings.

But I think some of the results are predictable, When you fire
two thirds of the drug czar’s office staff, when you hire someone as
a chief health officer for the country that sends a mixed message
to our children; when you dismantle the interdiction and source
country programs, and when you fail to provide leadership from the
White House on this important issue, and send a mixed message
to our youth, I think the results are somewhat predictable.

As a result of these policies, illegal drugs are pouring into our
country and into our community in unprecedented amounts. I have
with me this morning, a GAO report which talks about U.S. inter-
diction efforts in the Caribbean declined, is the title of it. Let me
just read from one page, if I may. “Cocaine seizures in the transit
zone declined from a peak of 70,336 kilograms in 1992 to 37,181
kilograms in 1995.” Additionally, Federal prosecutions in the drug


69

could be wrong on this, but I am sure the intervention and the
treatment folks may be able to get me on this one. a

I do not know that there are very few people that will jump out
there and start smoking crack, or that they are going to become
deeply involved in heroin. Something introduces them to that life-
style and to that culture and the gateway drugs of tobacco—and we
need to face that—the gateway drugs of marijuana and alcohol are
pervasive. And I think that is an issue we need to be dealing with
as much as the tragedy that occurs on the strong end or the upper
end of drug use itself.

Early prevention is critical. We start, as Marge indicated, in Or-
ange County, and in Seminole County we do the same thing—we
are trying to deliver a very strong, healthy message to young peo-
ple as early as we can possibly get them, and then intervene even
earlier. If we can get parents in a stage that will deal with estab-
lishing consequences in the household, establishing rules and
boundaries in that household, and being good role models, because
all of us are role models, whether we recognize it as that or not.

I think one of the other things that comes out of the discussion
today earlier is the frightening as of who young people have as
heroes today. You will find that the glorification of drugs and the
desensitization of drugs is also a difficult thing, that it appears to
be OK. And when a parent deals with you and they say, well gee,
he was just smoking a little pot, that is a frightening thought in
itself because that is what is leading them down that difficult road.

The thing that I think our group here in Seminole County would
just like to leave with you is that drug abuse prevention has to be
a Priority every day—not just today, not just tomorrow, but every
day. And the tragedy that you have seen today in the lives and the
families, and then again the successes. I think we ought to cele-
brate those successes and commend those young people. For step-
ping out of that role, is to deliver a strong, healthy message day
in and day out to every student and every family, and that this is
not the school system’s issue, it is not the community’s issue, it is
not law enforcement, it is a combination of all.

I appreciate the time. Thank you.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you. Mr. Wolfgang Halbig.

Mr. Hapic. Thank you. Mr. Chairman.

The part that I would like to speak about is the protection of our
school systems across our country that we are seeing. A little back-
ground, I have been a State trooper in Miami for several years, I

ve been a teacher, a school administrator, and I worked part
time for U.S. Customs. So I know what is happening and keep up
with the latest information on the drug flow in our area.

What I would like to do this morning. You are here to look at
the report from the front line. What I want to do this morning is
show you an gxample of how difficult our job is at the front line.
And I would like for Representative Souder to come down, I am
going to promote him to assistant cipal. I would like for you to
see how difficult our job is as administrators in dealing with drugs
on public school campuses—not just in central Florida but through-
out the whole United States.

Let me show you a young man from the front lines and how we
have to deal with it. Let me show you—these are the kids that we



24

particularly single mothers, but also intact families to attend semi-
nars. Then they made the seminars mandatory or they were going
to get their funds cut off. And what they found net was that behav-
ior changed zero. That even with the intensive 72 hour in-home,
partly because many of these were already isolated, we have seen
it in city after city, where a family has moved from one city to an-
other, the kids are a problem so when they hit the next school sys-
tem, they have the same problems. The mother because she is often
moved, is embarrassed to go to church because the kids are a prob-
lem, she is isolated in the neighborhood because they immediately
turn on her if the kids become a problem in the harder cases. That
is one element.

Otherwise, we had the Perry pre-school people there who have
high scope, which is the Head Start studies. They have tailing off
of the Head Start impact by fourth grade, they did have some re-
duction in juvenile delinquency. Oregon Learning School experi-
ment did not have a follow-through. In other words, there is no evi-
dence that we can find that the intervention programs are in fact
working. So how do we, as governmental officials, knowing that you
cannot give up and you still try it, on what grounds would we up
that much funding, and do you have anything that—I mean you
are looking at being overburdened, but would that actually work if
you got more money for that? Not that anything else is particularly
working either.

Judge WILL. A lot of what we do, we do by the gut and by the
seat of the pants, as opposed to taking statistics in from other pro-
grams that we do not know about. Just anectodatally here real
quick, I love that word, that is the new warm and fuzzy word.

Mr. SouDER. It means you have no complete scientific evidence
but you have a good case.

Judge WILL. It means I do not have a clue, but I am going to
tell you anyway. {Laughter.]

Payi ese moms—here is the problem. Tracking the kids after
they have already become system kids is going to be depressing.
Once they are into the system, we are not making very much dif-
ference with them and paying mothers to go to the programs is
probably not going to help, because all of the psychologists tell us
that children formulate their ability to make judgmental decisions
early on, many of them before they are even 5. And so dealing with
a child who is 15, or our most common child, the 16 year old ninth
grader that is turning our system inside out right now is almost
a total waste of time. The statistics tell you that you will make
very little difference. .

Maybe if we were going to pay somebody to do something, hon-
estly what I am trying to say is maybe we should have paid that
particular mom not to have any children to begin with. And if we
were able to identify those people, we could do a good job. But since
we cannot do that, then maybe if we were able to use our school
systems to identify for us those children who are having problems
early on and address the family there. We have some legislation in
Florida that allows us to do that and I would like to—you know,
we are mounting an initiative to try to do that and see if it will
make a difference. The problem is that you cannot tell in a year
or 2 years or 8 years. If we adopt a program in Florida that works


10

role models and a significantly better community, both in central
Florida and Puerto Rico.

I commend you for taking the time to conduct these hearings and
I thank you for the opportunity to address you this morning.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you, sir. Don.

Mr. EsLINGER. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Congressmen. I too
would like to welcome you to Seminole County.

As each of you know, the number of fatalities related to the drug
crisis in recent months within the central Florida area can be
counted by the dozens. Family and friends of those victims are
shattered by the loss of loved ones. However, the problems associ-
ated with drug abuse in our community are far-reaching.

We are all affected and victimized by the presence of illegal
drugs in our community, even though we may not have a direct re-
lationship to the abuse. I estimate that 80 to 90 percent of all re-
ported crime in Seminole County are directly related to drug and
alcohol abuse. We are also victimized by increased health care
costs, decreased human productivity, increased government ex-
pense for law enforcement, and clearly an overburdened criminal
justice system. This crisis is adversely affecting the safety and the
quality of life within our community.

Law enforcement administrators are struggling to seek innova-
tive and progressive methods to deal with this problem. It should
be clear that this crisis is not just an enforcement related problem,
but rather should be our Nation’s top social priority. All of us must
realize that criminal behavior, including drug and alcohol abuse,
are symptoms of a greater, more complex problem that we are ex-
periencing in our society.

Many of us do not want to admit this, but kids do not refrain
from the use of drugs because it is illegal. They abstain because
they have made smart choices based on proper values and positive
family influences. It is a moral choice. There is a dilemma in that
our Government cannot legislate, regulate, nor mandate proper pa-
rental involvement, guidance or even effective parenting skills. We
must concentrate our efforts to work both sides of the equation, the
supply and the demand side of drug trafficking.

it would be a wise investment and certainly appropriate to in-
crease the presence of U.S. military along our borders. During
peacetime, our Armed Forces should apply their personnel, their
technology, and sophisticated hardware to aggressively interdict
the importation of illegal drugs into our country. We should also
do a better job of utilizing our existing resources to aggressively
seek out the trafficker, dealer, and those responsible for distribut-
ing illegal drugs in our community. Punitive sanctions for those
who choose to engage in this activity must be more severe. We
should send a clear message of zero tolerance. In addition we
should do everything we can possibly do to prevent people from
ever becoming involved in the use of illicit drugs. Our demand re-
duction strategies should include and continue to be all-inclusive.
The family, church, school, business, and the community, as well
as neighborhoods, and the criminal justice system must become
more of a positive influence in the lives of our children.

Human behavior is influenced at virtually every age by peer
pressure. It is imperative that we instill positive values and sound


29

I would like to now welcome our second panel: as the first panel
starts to leave. I would like to get one of those little pamphlets as
well.

While the second panel is taking their seats, I would like to in-
troduce them. They are the concerned citizens of central Florida.
Mr. Richard Kozak is from Winter Park and I believe he is here
with his daughter Jaime; Commissioner George Duryea is from the
city of Lake Mary and his son Carey is with him; Barbara St. Clair
is here representing the House of Hope; Toni Goodwin is here from
Orlando and Bethany Long is a Valencia Community College stu-
dent. We thank you all for being here today, and if you would
please stand and raise your right hand, we do swear people in.

[Witnesses sworn.]

Mr. ZELIFF. Please be seated. Who would like to start? Mr.
Duryea.

STATEMENTS OF GEORGE DURYEA, COMMISSIONER, CITY OF
LAKE MARY, FL; CAREY DURYEA; TONI GOODWIN; BETHANY
LONG, VALENCIA COMMUNITY COLLEGE STUDENT; AND
BARBARA ST. CLAIR, HOUSE OF HOPE

Mr. G. Duryea. I want to thank the committee, Mr. Zeliff and
all the people who got me on this panel.

I just want to say as an introduction, one person knows me as
a husband, a lot of people know me as a CPA, a lot of people know
me as an elected official, I am a Sunday School teacher, part time
coach. But few people know me as the father of a drug addict and
I went through a long period of denial in the beginning.

My son started using at about 14 years old, in middle school. I
had no idea, he led a dual lifestyle for most of 2 years, went to
school, got decent grades, went to a college prep ool. His drug
use was not in any way visible to me. I had some gut feelings about
the strange phone calls that I got, but I had no idea what was
going on.

As his drug use progressed, the types of drugs he used increased,
the types of—from marijuana and alcohol to cocaine and other
things—I will let him talk about that—our family just went to
pieces. I have an older son who began to use also. His life was
going down the tubes, slowly getting eaten up with apathy and his
concern with having a good time. My youngest son was 10, 11, and
12 years old during this period of time. He was constantly getting
suspended from school, acting out and his behavior was all but sat-
isfactory, all because of this creeping disease that I have learned
to call it, called substance abuse.

_ Before we got into treatment, I spent a lot of nights doing very
irrational things, not being able to sleep, getting in the car and
driving around, urying to find my son, who was never at the place
he was supposed to be at. He was a d con artist in that he
would always have a decent excuse. One night he said he got
stopped by the police, that is why he was late. There was a lot of
irrational behavior going on in our family, four letter words were
used tremendously. We could not seem to communicate without
getting into arguments.

things progressed, violence and abuse became everyday—an
everyday existence—verbal abuse, sometimes physical abuse. As I


98

ple made some very good points about how we need to be support-
ing some partnerships.
it is a whole range of activities and we cannot let up on any
of them. But as a community, I think we are going to have to do
at.

The other thing too is it may take the business community too
to get involved in this. We need to make public awareness, not just
the hearing last week and this hearing, but public awareness and
parental awareness and others getting them involved in this.

Mr. ZELIFF. Would you yield for just a second?

Mr. Mica. Yes.

Mr. ZeuiFF. I think from my observation here is that you have
got enough people, not only just the ones that stayed around for
the whole hearing, but those that were here in the beginning as
well. You have got a core of people that would be an excellent
group to get started with. And if this was videotaped, you could al-
most—there is so much good stuff that came out of this hearing
today, that you could use it to get others to join you and make sure
that all the groups are represented and find somebody that wants
to lead the group and follow up. You know, throughout this whole
thing, we have got to follow up some things on some laws and juve-
nile justice system and a lot of that. But the basic decision that
needs to be made is what do you as a community want to do, where
do you go from here. And that is the only way—the Government
is not going to do it. I have got to do it in my town, I have got to
do it with my kids and my grandchildren and my neighbors and
my kids down the street, but you have got to do it here and what
do you guys want to do. Do you guys really want to take this an-
other step further. If you will and those kids back there and those
young people that testified and had the courage to do that and are
still here, they are some of the best talent you have in terms of
really getting this message out.

Ms. REDWwITz. Thank you.

Mr. Mica. Thank you. Now I understand that we had two other
individuals that wanted to get some quick remarks in.

Mr. ZELIFF. They get a minute each.

Mr. Mica. Just a minute or two each. If you would identify your-
self, sir, for the record.

STATEMENT OF PAT LARKIN

Mr. LARKIN. My name is Pat Larkin and I have a son who is an
addict and alcoholic. I will be only a minute and if I go over it, turn
this thing off.

I can tell you as a father of three boys that I had two other boys
that dabbled in drugs and alcohol. Somehow they outgrew it. My
youngest son had an addictive personality and when he started, he
had a problem. And I think that is what needs to be addressed
somewhere along the line, is that in a lot of cases, or most cases,
the peer pressure is so strong today that these children do experi-
ment, and I want to say almost all of them. But at parties, that
is pretty close to true. if you have a child there who has an addict-
ive personality and he takes that first little puff of marijuana and
this is the real problem. I can say that from what I know and from
what my son has told me, it is so easy to get that, it is easier than


91

Thank you very much. .

Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony, and I would now like
to recognize Diane Kerr. She is from Jacksonville, FL, and came
down for the hearing.

STATEMENT OF DIANE KERR, JACKSONVILLE, FL

Ms. Kerr. Thank you for having me. I am a member of the Rice
Process. The Rice Process is community based volunteers, we work
with our policemen, we go out into the worst areas of town, we put
ourselves between the drug seller and the drug buyers. By being
there, we effectively attack their economy, they do not do any busi-
ness while we are on the street.

We work by just chanting. We are nonviolent, we stand in front
of them and we get to do what the police would like to do. Many
times the police cannot say anything to these people who call them
all sorts of obscenities right there to their face. But we can. We can
call them drug dealer slime and we use all sort of names like this
and we chant them, and we stay for 4 to 6 hours. We do things
that will last all night long, we are out on the streets, we are clean-
ing up the beer cans and the liquor bottles that just litter every-
where.

I live in one of the worse sections of my town and I have a neigh-
bor who has to watch her television in a cardboard box because she
is afraid of having her TV stolen. That is what prompted me to do
this, to go out and help the people. They help us, they are out there
with us. We find things to do that give our hearts a little relief
from the stress of it all. We do a drug dealer funeral on the street,
we actually built a coffin and made our own drug dealer dummy
and we desecrate this out there on the street, we make fun of it
because the children are watching and it is very important that
their ambition is not to be the drug dealer. And right now, many
of these children, that is where they are going. The next step up
for them is to be the drug dealer.

And I want to invite anyone else to participate in their commu-
nity in any way they can. If we take it a little bit at a time, we
will get a lot done.

Thank you.

Mr. Mica. Thank you. An innovative group and we appreciate
your testimony.

Let me see if Ann McDaniel, director of Altamonte Center for
Counseling is here. You are recognized.

STATEMENT OF ANN McDANIEL, DIRECTOR, ALTAMONTE
CENTER FOR COUNSELING

Ms. McDANIEL. Good afternoon. I am director of Altamonte Cen-
ter for Counseling. We are a private full service counseling agency,
we have offices in six counties. We treat about 300 adult substance
abusers a week, mostly court-ordered people.

The first thing I want to do is acknowledge what we are doing
here today, because what we are doing here is the same thing that
we do when we counsel, we are having a conversation that makes
a difference—that is exactly what we do when we do counseling.

With our clients, probably 90 percent of our adult clients are also
parents. We have a youthful offender program. Probably 75 percent


11

ethics in our children, to enable them to withstand negative peer
pressure. In the final analysis, drug prevention begins at home. _

However, we need to enhange our efforts to assist families in this
process without being intrusive. Initiatives like D.A.R.E., the Police
Athletic League, the Red Ribbon Campaign, drug awareness pro-
grams for parents through local PTA’s certainly attempt to achieve
this objective. Somehow, we must do more to facilitate this change.
Demand reduction is a shared responsibility between all segments
of our society.

In spite of this great challenge, I remain optimistic. You see, we
have allowed this environment to develop in which elicit drugs
have flourished in our community. One might say that we have
done this to ourselves. What we have done, we certainly can undo.
What is also clear is what we do about the drug crisis today will
determine our future and our success for this generation and gen-
erations to come.

I want to thank this committee, Mr. Chairman and Congress-
men, for your time and effort and your interest in addressing this
serious problem that we are facing here in Seminole County and
throughout the State of Florida.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Well said. Chief Beary.

Mr. BEARY. Good morning and welcome to Lake Mary, FL. As
you are aware, my name is Richard Beary and I am the chief of
police here.

First, let me give you a little background about myself. I have
been a police officer for over 19 years, I worked undercover and su-
pervises t the narcotics enforcement unit for 6¥2 years. I currently
serve as a member of the Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Commit-
tee for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. Addition-
ally, I am a father of three school-age children. I am a mentor in
the public school system as well. So I feel qualified to talk about
this issue with you.

Congressman Mica talked about mixed messages and that is kind
of where I would like to go. Let us talk honestly and candidly about
drug abuse. First, let me make one point clear. There is no war on
drugs; in fact, in my estimation, there never has been. [Applause.]

If a true war existed, resources, expertise, and funding would not
be a problem. We would take all necessary actions to win. Clearly
we are not in this arena when we talk about drug enforcement, as
we deal in very finite resources on a daily basis. Why is this dis-
tinction important? Well, the public believes the war rhetoric and
is wondering when we are going to win. The Persian Gulf war only
took 100 hours to win—why is the drug war taking so long?

The problem of substance abuse in this country is not going to
go away. Some individuals, despite our best efforts, are going to
abuse drugs. Our goal must be to keep that number of individuals
who choose to use s to a minimum. This is a realistic goal that
we have to focus on. The sad news is that during the 1980’s and
the early 1990’s, we made a major impact against drug abuse in
the United States. The National Household Survey on Drug Abuse
in 1992—excuse me, from the period of 1979 to 1992, illegal, illicit
drug users plummeted from 24.8 million in 1979 to 11.4 million in
1992. That is a decrease of over 50 percent of people abusing drugs.


97

as a slam against HRS, I have worked with them for years and
years and years and I have good cooperation with them. But there
are times when something happens. .

I think another thing that we need to really work on is what are
the community standards, because that is what this group is going
to have to work on. You have gotten us started, you have called the
attention, now we have to pick up the ball and run with it.

I would strongly recommend that the schools should be unrelent-
ing in making sure that parents are kept informed of their child’s
activities, both positive and negative. If it means seeing parents at
night, so be it.

would strongly recommend that we change the juvenile laws so
that running away is a misdemeanor. This will help police officers
get kids in the system so they can get some help. Because unfortu-
nately, many times they do not get help until they get into the sys-
tel

m.

I would also even suggest that stealing a car is changed in the
category. It used to be a felony for anyone to steal a car. But that
has changed, now—and correct me if I am wrong—if it is a family
car, it is not considered a felony. Is that correct? Yes. And that is
a shame. So it is kind of like, so, it is your mother’s car.

I think perhaps we have met the enemy, and I think they are
us. It is time to decide what we are going to do.

Thank you for the forum.

Mr MICA. Thank you and thank you for your suggestions. [Ap-
plause.

Our time is about out. We wanted to be fair to everyone. We
have a couple of minutes and I see Barbara Kuhn, did you want
to say anything?

Ms. KUHN. Thank you. I am the former chairman of the school
board. Could I defer to a student of mine at FBC, who is working
on a second story on this article?

Mr. Mica. Yes. And we do have several minutes left.

Mr. ZELIFF. You have 3 minutes left.

Mr. Mica. Would you like to be our last witness?

Ms. REDWITZ. Good afternoon. My name is Doris Redwitz.

What can we do now as a community to prevent the drugs?

Mr. Mica. Well, the reason that we brought this panel together
is to see what we could also do at the Federal level. Pthink we are
bringing back some very good recommendations, I think we need
to look at some of the laws at the Federal level that allow schools
and parents to deal with some of the problems.

I think as a community, I believe that we should adopt a zero
tolerance program. I think it is very hard—I mean I heard some
things here today that are amazing. I know some of the people who
are involved and this is not just an inner city program, it is going
to take everybody. It is going to take parents—I think maybe we
have done some things in this last Congress that will help address
the problems, some of the problems, some of the welfare reform,
helping with some of the day care, because we do live in a different
society. There are a lot of single parents out there. But I think it
is going to take education, it is going to take treatment. I am glad
to hear more about the different programs and the success rates.
We are going to have to look at some partnerships too. I think peo-


65

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc., Daytona Beach, Florida
Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14, 1996 Page 12

‘© The current treatment system should be expanded upon to accommodate the
individuals in the criminal justice system.

© Assystem needs to be undertaken to which will obtain the cooperation of the movie
and music industries to alter the messages they are providing to our young, population.

© A massive community educational campaign needs to be undertaken at all levels of
government for the purpose of altering society’s permissive views of licit and illicit
drugs

¢ _Interdiction efforts need to continue, however they should not outweigh demand side
alternatives.

¢ ONDCP, or another agency, needs to expand its evaluation and research capability in
an effort to determine effective prevention strategies, treatment modalities, and
interdiction efforts, Continued and expanded funding should be provided for those
elements that prove to be cost effective.

* ONDCP should continue its tradition regional conferences to elicit assistance from the

field in developing and updating its national strategy.

Chairman Zeliff, Congressman Mica, and other members, again let me thank you for allowing me
to appear before you today. 1 have submitted my statements in writing and will be happy to

respond to any questions you may have at this time.


71

STUDENT. That is right, yes.

Mr. SouDER. Nobody has ever seen you doing it?

STUDENT. If they do, they are not telling the truth.

Mr. HALBIG. Now he does a good job, because he is trying to keep
him at ease. Does he not do a good job? He is talking with him,
he is not putting him in a defensive mode. But look at his dress,
look at the headsets. Do we allow headsets, do we allow hats in our
schools? Do we allow bandannas? Do we allow them with their
pants legs up? Those are gang activity signs. Where there are
gangs, there are drugs, there are guns.

And again, we have to let them know that it is not acceptable.
And I want you to know we take a tongue lashing many, many
times. They will verbally abuse us and we are limited in what our
scope is. But look at this, just the headset, this is all the stuff that
we have taken off. Let us say you were to take this from him.
These are kids who will wear these to school and look what is in-
side of them. We may assume that they are listening to music, but
that is where they will put their rolling paper and their marijuana.
And we as educators, that is our job, just like the young lady said,
nobody dealt with it—you know, confidentiality, we cannot offend
anybody. People are in denial. But again, look at this, there is the
marijuana wrapping paper and here you have got the marijuana
inside the headset.

If you look at the hat. A lot of times we will take the hats away
and he is the assistant principal, he will take the hat and say look,
you are not allowed to have it. But inside the headband, I want you
to take a look, that is where they put their acid, their Rohypnol,
they will put it inside the headband. Teachers have never ever
been taught to look, because they are part of the stakeholders in
the school éystem. They all have to get involved, but we have not
been. train . But look at this, this is where your Rohypnol and
acid is.

Mr. SoupEr. Am I allowed to do a search?

Mr. Ha.sic. Now if you have suspicion, yes, you can. If you have
reasonable suspicion—that is a good question. If I have reasonable
suspicion, we can do it, but it stops when he does what? What if
he says no, do not touch me? What is the next thing that you and
T are going to do in trying to find out whether he has the drugs
or not? Due process. Supreme Court Justice, Mr. Thomas,
talked about due process. These kids have too many rights, they
have way too many Tights and they know the rules and the way
to play by the rules. They are killing us in public schools and we
are losing the battle. And I want you to see how.

Let us say he does want to search him and he says please empty
your pockets.

Mr. SoupDER. Please empty your pockets.

STUDENT. I do not think so.

Mr. SOUDER. So what do I do now? [Laughter.]

Mr. Haugic. Now, I am going to tell you—really, this is probably
the most powerful illustration, this is every principal, every admin-
istrator, that is exactly where it ends.

Now guess what, we had better hope we have a school resource
officer, and we bring our policeman in. But is that probable cause?
The policeman does not have probable cause. So guess what, we are


16

When we have case managers —we have adopted in Florida a
case management system to deal with children who are in our sys-
tem—and when we have case managers who are handling case-
loads of 80 to 120, then you have to stop and think for a minute.
A little bit of quick math will tell you that they are going to spend
about 20 minutes per week per family. If that is supposed to make
a difference, I think we might as well just trash the whole thing
and go away. Twenty minutes per week per family is not going to
make any difference at all.

And as long as we keep treating the problem as though it is one
that is created by the children, so that we have this mental set,
this mindset that tells us if we take the children out of the commu-
nity for awhile like an old beat up car, spit shine, and wax them
up and then return them to the community, that they are somehow
going to be OK, then we might as well not do that either. The chil-

ren are products of communities and families. They do not spring
from the womb with this notion that they are going to use drugs
and get into crime and get into trouble all across the board. They
spring from the womb just like you and I did. Their community and
their family have directed them to behave the way that they do—
again, speaking in generalities.

ir goal has to be, from the very beginning, if we expect kids

not to use drugs, to help them make better decisions about it. And
while we have some p: s in place that do that, they obvioush:
are not making that difference, or the statistics would not be all
over the board behind you like they are and 80 to 90 percent of the
kids that I see in court would not be involved with drugs.

If we are going to take our kids away from families, move them
to places like boot camps, commitment programs, treatment pro-
grams, that is a wonderful thing, it takes a tremendous amount of

ledication and resource to do that, and we have to keep doing that.
But we have to remember, like that car that I was talking about,
you know, if mamma wrecks the car, then we are going to take it
over to the body shop, we are going to get it fixed up, we are going
to paint it and we are going to bring it back to mamma. We di
not teach mamma how to drive, so mamma is going to wreck the
car again next week, guys, it is just not working. That approach
will not make a difference. We have to dedicate ourselves to doing
something far earlier and far stronger.

Another very unpopular observation is that right now our courts
are flooded with parents who do not know how to parent. I wish
I could give you a nicer explanation of that, but we have people
who do not have a clue as to what it is that they might ought to
be doing with their children to guide them in the direction that
they want them to go. These children are not taught early on, they
are raised by television and day care and babysitters, by families
that are out there trying to make a living, fighting to stay alive,
and the children are being raised by their peers and by television.
Television does not teach us how to make good decisions, it does
not teach us judgment, it does not teach us anything that we need
to know to make that decision when we are 12 or 13 years old in
middle school and we are approached by somebody that wants to
offer us a little bit of dope. We have a lot of people who should not
have children that have children. They have them because they can


99

alcohol, it is easier than anything else. And the supply and demand
was a big feature for him. .

As far as the programs are concerned, when I told him he had
a 30-day program to go to, he said that is easy, dad, I will do it.
When I put him in a long-term program, he had a realization he
was going to get fixed, and he went to the SAFE program and he
made it.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Mica. Thank you. [Applause.] | |

We had one other, our final witness. If you could identify your-
self, sir.

STATEMENT OF SELDON HENRY

Mr. HEnRrY. Yes, sir. I am Seldon Henry.

Mr. Mica. You are recognized.

Mr. HENRY. Thank you, sir; 3 minutes, 2 minutes.

Your committee has such an awesome responsibility, given the
nature of Americans’ morals today. I hope that when you go back
to Washington, that you will realize that, or remember that this
war on drugs, drugs are a very bad thing, is also killing thousands
or tens of thousands of Americans.

When I was in school, I was harassed by the school teachers,
principals because I chose to associate with all the people in the
school instead of just a cliche or two cliches. I hung out with the
drug dealers or traffickers, with the cheerleaders, the preppies. I
have walked through Harlem, I have lived next to a billionaire and
I have been across this country and back. I have walked through
so much blood or seen so many people die over drugs and related
issues that I can see somebody killed in front of me and go have
breakfast and it does not affect me any more.

My father is an educator, retired to Ponte Vedra, right on the
beach, beautiful, $900,000 houses. Just up the street, people were
Uzi’d to death in their cars for their pocket change so somebody
could go out and get a hit of crack. If it is that bad, give it up
please. My neighbors and my brothers and my sisters are being
killed, slaughtered and it is just not worth it.

you.

Mr. Mica. I thank you for your comments and your testimony.
Kind of an apt closing.

I want to thank the chairman and my fellow subcommittee mem-
bers and committee members for coming to my community to hear
this, and you hear it is ravaging our community.

I just might say to the lady who asked about what we are doing
too, that as part of what Chairman Zeliff did when he took this
over, I remember going to him and he saying well—when he ini-
tially took this, he said, well we can just get the drug czar, we can

et someone to take action. And then as he took the chairmanship,

found that the jurisdiction was through dozens of agencies and
that it takes many aspects of and activities of the legislative
branch, Congress, to get things back on track. I will say to Fis com-
pliment, also Speaker Gingrich, that he appointed Denny Hastert,
who is the deputy whip, about third in command, to work with our
subcommittee in this effort. And we went down every one of the
programs and we made sure that any program that was cut in


21

Mr. Vos. Well, I know that our local U.S. attorney’s office is
very cooperative with us. We have a Metropolitan Bureau of Inves-
tigation which is a combined organized crime task force that is in
our building and I give two lawyers—or we give two lawyers as
their advisers. And they make a lot of bigger cases that are re-
ferred to the Federal Government for prosecution, and are very
pleased with the level of prosecution in this area. They have more
of the heroin dealers than we do. They just recently had a rather
large central Florida arrest.

Personally, from our standpoint, we will give them any case they
want, there is no turf war between us and we just have a good re-
lationship with them and have never had them decline to prosecute
narcotics cases. Sometimes I know they say it is too small and we
do it because they have a limit—but a very good relationship.

Mr. Mica. But you want us to make certain that we direct DOJ
that the funds be spent on tough prosecution and going after that.

Mr. Voss. Well, as Chief Beary said, we have got to quit sending
the mixed message. We have to—it is either going to be a war on
drugs or it is not going to be a war on drugs. The trend over the
years, both in State, local, and Federal courts, has been to treat
narcotics as if they are a little social evil that is not doing any
harm and it is a victimless crime, and we all know, anybody that
has been involved in the system for any length of time knows that
most violent and burglary, nonviolent type crimes are all linked to
drugs or alcohol use. So yes, I think you need to make sure the De-
partment of Justice knows their marching orders are to prosecute
drug offenders whenever—within their purview.

Mr. Mica. This quick last question to Chief Beary. You said some
court decisions have hampered some of your efforts. Is there any-
thing that we need to do as far as Federal legislation to address
some of these decisions?

Mr. Beary. Well, one of the things, like I said, we have lost our
focus, and I can tell you that back in the 1980’s, we were doing
some tremendous asset forfeiture, some good programs. And then
all of a sudden we started with public apathy and we started feel-
ing sorry for the drug peddlers and oh, goodness, you only arrested
him with $2,000 worth of drugs, but his car is worth $30,000 so
you should not be able to keep it, that is double jeopardy, you are
punishing him twice. If the guy is a drug dealer, he is a drug deal-
er, we just happened to catch him with a small amount that day.
(Laughter.]}

_And that is the reality. OK? So we feel sorry for the guy, let us
give him back the car. Well, the bottom line is, if he is a drug deal-
er, let us play hardball. OK? And that is where we have had a
problem. One of those cases just recently came out and we came
out OK; however, there are more lined up. The California, the dis-
trict court out there for California has come out with some off-the-
walls, and unfortunately our local judges buy into this stuff be-
cause they say well that is what the Federal judges are saying, so
now our local judges are doing the same thing. Well, that car is
worth $30,000, you only had $800 worth of crack with him that
day, it is unfair. Well, as far as I am concerned, peddling drugs is
unfair to the rest of society and we have got to stand up and say—
[applause.]


50

Ms. LONG. You know, I am given certain tools in my recovery to
use instead of using drugs. And I do not think that just teaching
them that it is bad is going to work, they need an alternative.

Mr. SANFORD. Ms. St. Clair, what is your thought?

Ms. Sr. Catr. I know that in my life prior to coming to House
of Hope, with different programs and with counseling and so on
and so forth, they mostly dealt with—and I was involved with the
courts as well. I went to Rand E. there in Columbia where I had
a 40-day evaluation. They mostly dealt with my behavior that I
was doing and never really dealt with why I was doing the things
that I was. I know that in my life drugs were just an outward of
what was going on with me inside. And I think the difference is
that if we have more programs—I think that anything really can
work if the counseling was geared more toward why are you doing
the things you are doing. Yes, it is important to get off the drugs,
it is important to have treatment centers to help you to do that,
but it is also involved in knowing why you are doing it and I think
that was the difference with me, and possibly educating the par-
ents. I know that was the big thing with my mom, she tried every-
thing, she went to different counselors and different programs, put
me in drug rehab and different things like that. But she was never
educated and was never involved in my life or required to be, and
I think that is the big difference.

Mr. SANFORD. Carey, do you think that a master sergeant could
scare you out of drug use or once you are in that, it is not going
to happen?

Mr. C. DuryYEA. Well, it is a vicious cycle that I got in and I do
not think anything was going to stop me. I would have been dead
before I realized it and then I would not have realized it. But I
think like availability is just too great. Every kid can get anything
he wants at any time and I did it all the time. I never had a prob-
lem getting drugs. That would be one thing, you know, get the
availability out of the way. If all the kids do not have all the drugs,
you know, there is going to be less kids, you know, using the drugs.
So I think the last panel was talking about that makes a big dif-
ference. And also more positive influences, I do not think just one,
you know, Michael Jordan getting up stating that drugs are bad is
going to help anybody.

There is too much negative influence and stuff, and I think like
I do not know exactly how to say this, but I think like Government-
funded treatment centers that do not work are worthless. (Laugh-
ter and applause.}

Mr. SANFORD. I only have about a minute and probably less than
a minute now.

Mr. ZELIFF. I think that is a point well taken.

Mr. SANFORD. Ms. St. Clair, what are some particular things that
you learned about through House of Hope, in terms of—that you

ass on to parents, that are particularly effective in trying to keep
Kias from ever going on drugs in the first place?

Ms. St. CLaIr. That we pass on to the parents?

Mr. SANFORD. Yes. You say you deal with both the parents side
and the youth.

Ms. St. Carr. Yes. The biggest thing is that first of all when a
girl does come into the program, that the parents have to know


95

roic awful year of our life, and then in the last 9 months we have
been through probably the best possible time we could as a family.
My son is addicted to alcohol and drugs, and we as a family were
in deep trouble. We did not know where to turn, the schools were
not helpful to us, they told us to take our son away for a year,
move to a different part of the country. That was not an option for
us because we would have to break up as a family to do that.

Luckily for us, we did find a long-term drug treatment which, in
my opinion, because it is also family and client, worked. It is the
only thing that works. Putting kids in drug treatment just for
themselves and not treating the family just does not work. I tried
to teach my son about drugs. I watched it as an emergency room
nurse. I watched kids come in, file through the emergency room
door, having to stick tubes down their throat and put liquid char-
coal down them to save their life, and to have a psych nurse come
in and tell them that there is really nothing that anybody can do
except out-patient. You know, you can take your kid and you can
get them out-patient therapy. Well, that does not work. I know nu-
merous kids who have been through out-patient therapy and they
are back out on the street and they are still doing the same thing
that they did.

The problem is, for families like us, who luckily by the grace of
God did not get in trouble with the legal system, although that
could have happened to us—insurance, there is no insurance. It
paid for $1,000. That is nothing, that is a drop in the bucket. I
would have done anything, | would have mortgaged my home if I
had to. Luckily, I did not have to do that, luckily I have a husband,
but there are lots of parents out there who cannot afford drug
treatment, whose kids need it desperately.

Do not reinvent the wheel. We have treatment centers out here
that work. We need to get kids in those. We need insurance compa-
nies to back us to get these kids back on their feet and well again.
Otherwise they are going to go right back out there and they are
going to end up in jail and you are going to pay for them anyway.

So thank you.

Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony. And we have someone
else. Can you stand to the mic and identify yourself please?

STATEMENT OF CINDY CRANE

Ms. CRANE. Yes, I will be glad to. My name is Cindy Crane, I
am a licensed mental health counselor doing out-patient treatment
right down the block.

r. Mica. Thank you and you are recognized.

Ms. Crane. I am also doing—I am also a certified addiction pro-
fessional. As far as someone coming into drug treatment initially,
out-patient work is not going to help. They must go in-patient, they
must go into a long-term treatment center. And when I say long-
term, I would say 8 months would be a minimum. I very much ap-
prove of the SAFE program, I have sent kids there and they do a
wonderful fob.

I would like to give you a little bit of background. Besides being
a licensed mental health counselor now, I was in the school system
for 31 years and I retired as the assistant principal at Lake
Brantley High School in 1987. I was in charge of drug treatment


33

Mr. ZELIFF. Well, I just again thank you and your dad for your
testimony today, and I encourage you. It is not easy, but boy, you
talk about a hero and a role model, you could be in terms of help-
ing us focus this Nation and this community on the war on drugs
and try to do something meaningful. You are in a position to be
able to do an awful lot for your country and your community.

I thank you very much for being here and your testimony. Mr.

ica.

Mr. Mica. Well, Mr. Chairman, it sort of leaves you speechless
to see this problem in our community. But there are so many fine
young people, and this is not just a problem of, you know, the inner
city. This is a problem that you have experienced, I have friends,
people on this council. This morning, we met with some of the local

lice chiefs and sheriffs, some of their children have had prob-
lems. So this is something that really is devastating at every level
of our society and community.

Is there anything else you think we can do at the Federal level
to help, from what you have seen? Carey or your dad?

Mr. C. Duryea. Put out the fullest effort, that is what I do every
day. Part of my recovery is helping other people out, you know, get-
ting in recovery and stuff. If I do my part, I know I will stay sober
and I know I will help the rest of the community stay sober. And
I think by getting other people sober, you know, there is more of
@ positive influence. I get more people sober, I have got more peo-
ple to hang out with, it just spreads. I came into treatment, I

rought a lot of Lake Mary into it with me and that is the good
thing. 1 would say fund more programs that really do something,
that really make a difference. Because when I was younger, I had
all of the awareness of drugs that you get and stuff, and it just did
not matter to me, with all the kids out there using. Like I could
not f° to a party and not be accepted without using drugs and
stuff.

So I would say put the fullest effort out, that is what I would
say—do not half put it. That is what I would say.

Mr. Mica. Commissioner.

Mr. G. Duryea. One of the things I can add is that I had kind
of a spiritual awakening when I was doing somewhat the same
thing to a police group and a policeman said the same question,
what can we do to facilitate this. And one of the boys came up with
the answer, he said do you know how many times you let me off?
Do you know how many times people stopped me and let me off,
when they should have held his feet to the fire. My son was
stopped I do not know how many times by police and they let him
off. That is the biggest message I could come for. Accountability
and if it causes us to create that family crisis that gets those people
out of denial so that they can see that they have a problem, that
is something we need to do.

Mr. C. Duryea. I think when I was using drugs, when a police
officer let me off and did not search my car very much or let me
off with some pot or something like that, I was like well, you know,
no big deal, not a problem, no big deal. And it was like fan take
advantage of that, that is something—you know, it was socially ac-
ceptable and that is how I perceived it. So I think not making it
socially acceptable, not having a socially acceptable drink and not


17

and once they have them, they do not have a damned clue what
it is that they might do to make those children have a better lot
in life than they have. That is the problem that we see in our
courts. Now I do not know if it the problem that we see across our
society in general, that is something you would know more about.
But the children that we see in these courts are children who never
had a chance because nobody ever taught them to make good deci-
sions.

And that is not to say that every—you know 80 percent of the
children in America are not going to experiment with marijuana at
some point in their lives. In some of our neighborhoods, the moth-
ers are glad that their kids are smoking marijuana instead of doing
crack. "they are glad marijuana is there, because it keeps their kids
alive. So maybe under their circumstances and their particular lot
in life, maybe that is a good decision for them.

What we need to do is the same thing that the social services
people have probably been telling us for 30 years now, and that is
that we ne to approach this as a family problem and we need to
assist families that do not know what they are doing, early on, in
making good decisions to make things work out for those kids. We
have got to hit these kids early, at 5 or 6 or earlier, and we have
to give the courts the authority to deal with those families that are
already manifesting problems.

We have some things on the board here in Florida I am proud
to say that Senator Burt will be taking forward in the State legisla-
ture this year, to work with children in need of services and fami-
lies in need of services legislation, to give us some help in that
area. But in the meantime, what we need from the Federal Govern-
ment is real hard to figure. The kinds of things that we need, we
need locally, we need from our State and we need from our local
governments, where we know the children and the families and we
work with them. Very often when mandates come from Washing-
ton, they have funding tied so closely to them, that the States feel
limited in what they can do—this new federalism that ties the abil-
ity to gain money back into your State, to gain your own tax money
back to your State, being tied to meeting some condition that may
work well in Indiana or Montana, is a very difficult thing to deal
with in the State of Florida. We have suffered with that my entire
life. And we need to have the latitude here to make decisions for
our people that we know wil] work for them.

at we really need for our kids, if we really want to make them
make a good decision when they turn into teenagers, is adequate
facilities to work with them when they are young or with families
that are desperately in need. We need adequate personnel that are
adequately paid to work in those facilities. We need salaries, we
need incentives to hold valuable people within State government to
work on those things, and we need continuity in our services. If you
look in any of your communities at the service agencies that are
in place to assist children and families, you cannot find very many
that have been here 5 years. They are here today and they are
gone tomorrow because of the sporadic funding that is available to
them. And what we need also is adequate room from the Federal
Government to experiment in our own communities to determine
what it is that can help those families.



61

Dr. Emest D. Cantley, Stewart-Marchman Center, Inc.. Daytona Beach, Florida
Testimony Before Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs and Criminal Justice
October 14,1996 Page 8

having difficulty obtaining drug treatment. This fact is particularly discouraging since we know
that individuals who enter treatment earlier have a better chance of obtaming a better treatment
outcome. | personally have had conversations with individuals who state they committed crimes
with the intent of being caught in order obtain treatment for their addiction. Activities such as this
will occur as long as treatment capacity is insufficient to meet the needs of our law biding citizens,
If they cannot obtain treatment, they are most likely to be involved in illegal activities, resulting in

more expenditures of public funds.

Issue Number Three: Services For Our Adolescent Population

Clearly the problems associated with substance abuse in our adolescent population are many and
will be resolved only by major commitments by everyone, especially our policy makers and
elected officials. The use of Illicit drugs is chief among these many problems. Recent trends in
illicit drug use show a marked increase in use by our youth since 1992, after over ten years of

steady decline. This fact calls for a review of our strategy for this nations “war on drugs.”

Regrettably, the children of today are faced with more uncertainty than the children of any other

era or our history. Some of these uncertainties are depicted below:

A child is more likely to be born to a single woman, who does not have contact with
the father of the child;
* When both parents are present at birth, the likelihood of the parents divorcing before

the child reaches the adolescent stage is higher today than ever before:


4

area are down 9 percent. And fortunately, this failure in leader-
ship, I think has been reversed because Bill Zeliff and this sub-
committee have taken very active roles in the new Congress to re-
store some of the cuts that were made by the past Congress in
these various programs.

I might say that Chairman Zeliff, through his leadership and this
subcommittee have restarted the interdiction and source country
programs. They fully funded almost every drug interdiction and
again education and also treatment programs, many of which again
were cut in the last administration, to some of the highest levels
that we have ever had.

However, today, I think that one of the things that I would advo-
cate, Mr. Chairman and members of my community, is that we
adopt a zero tolerance policy relating to drugs. We heard talking
to a few of the police chiefs this morning and other law enforce-
ment officials that they think also that is the answer. And I am
convinced that a zero tolerance policy with drugs and crime is one
of our solutions, in addition to what we will hear today as to how
local, State and private groups can work together. We can recom-
mit vast Federal resources to aid our military, Coast Guard, law
enforcement, education and treatment programs, but it is really im-
portant that we find out the emphasis and the effectiveness of how
we properly direct those resources and those commitments from the
Federal level.

It is my hope that today we can learn how we all can do a better
job in tackling what really is one of the most serious challenges
and problems to face this country.

T thank you, Mr. Chairman, again, I thank the members of the
subcommittee and my colleague for coming and being part of this
hearing today.

Mr. ZELIFF. John, thank yeu very much.

Chairman McCollum, I have enjoyed working with you and we
have had a couple of projects that we have worked through.

Mr. McCoLLU. We sure have.

Mr. ZELIFF. You are a great leader in the Congress and again,
we appreciate you stopping in. Would you like to——

Mr. McCouuum. Yes, if I could, Bill. I want to thank you and
welcome you for coming here today. You and I chaired a long series
of hearings and we are going to miss that opportunity in the next
Congress. Bill Zeliff is not going to be back with us, and I know
I am going to miss him. The Waco hearings, if some of you
watched, went on for a lot of hours and he and I spent time passing
the gavel back and forth.

Some of you may wonder about the differences in these commit-
tees. As John Mica was saying, there is a difference. I am not as
a member of this subcommittee, I am not a member of the Over-
sight Committee that is the broad committee that is the big com-
mittee over this subcommittee. But we work together a lot. Their
job is to do the t of thing they are doing here today, which is
to come in and to hear and to listen and to criticize and to try to
make the Federal Government’s executive branch do the type of
thing that it is supposed to do. Their particular emphasis on
drugs—and Bill, you are turning your attention to that—you, John,
doing that as well—has been a great service to our Nation.


93

Ms. LEE. Yes, sir. |
Mr. MICA. Yes, you are recognized. Thank you.

STATEMENT OF DARLENE LEE, LAKE COUNTY, FL

Ms. LEE. I am Darlene Lee, I live in Lake County but I do work
in Altamonte Springs and my sons were in treatment in Orlando,
I have two druggie sons.

They started when they, were 14 or 15, they are 17 and 18 now.
They went through the ‘E Program too and it has been a long
hard row to hoe. There is such a denial problem with parents. You
know, you think that you are white, middle class, I am a registered
nurse, I thought I was aware of what the symptoms were, but it
is such a subtle, sneaky, pervasive disease. Clairmont is a very
small town, but the gang situation there is really bad. My son was
in a national gang using and dealing marijuana and LSD. And LSD
was his drug of choice. He is alive today and he is not in prison
and he is sober because of the SAFE program.

And I just encourage you to make programs that are successful
more available, because I had to declare bankruptcy in order to put
my kids through treatment.

There is an answer and there is hope, but this is a progressive,
terminal illness and they are going to die if they do not get help.
dust focus on the groups that are working with kids that really are
effective and that are helping them, and the kids that are sober.
And I encourage you to support these programs. I encourage you
to give parents more authority to do something about the problem,
because parents are totally helpless.

It is not against the law in this State for a kid to run away, m
son was missing 18 days. I could not get law enforcement to ‘ook
for him. I had to make fliers and put them up on the toll booths
and in the restaurants I thought he would frequent and in the
teenage nightclubs and the airports and the bus stations. I felt des-
perate, I felt helpless. And when I finally found him, he was on the
way out the door that night to use crack.

It is a joke. This whole juvenile justice system in the State of
Florida is a joke. We need help as parents in giving us the author-
ity to do something about the problem. Do not make it voluntary
to go into treatment, because I do not know a druggie kid that is
going to voluntarily admit themselves for treatment. Give parents
the authority to admit their kids to treatment and to keep them
in treatment until they recover from their addictions.

And that is all I have to say. [Applause.]

Mr. Mica. Thank you, very direct, unfortunate experience, but
we appreciate your testimony, and hopefully we can look at some
of these recommendations.

I think I had called Richard Boddecker, chairman of the Alcohol/
Drug Mental Health Association. Welcome, sir, and you are recog-
nized.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD BODDECKER, CHAIRMAN, ALCOHOL/
DRUG MENTAL HEALTH ASSOCIATION

Mr. BoDDECKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to congratu-
late you on this wonderful hearing that you have had here. I at-


38

In my life ahead, I do not wish to be anyone famous, rich or even make a lot of
money. I would rather be happy than rich. I plan to become well-educated, to go
to a good university. I believe education is very important, I am too much of a think-
er, I wonder about all different types of ideas. The world we live in is one of my
favorite to ponder. My opinion is that our world is turning to a darker side with
each passing moment.

Politicians are destroying the environment in our country, destroying everything
good in this world. Everyone is corrupt. Money is everything. This must be what

is supposed to happen. I believe everything happens in a cycle. This is a part of the
cycle of life.

T have many hopes and dreams. As long as I put my mind to it, I can accomplish
the impossible. The point I am trying to make is life should be taken seriously, take
every opportunity as if it was your last.

Those were his own thoughts, hopes, and dreams, shattered and
lost in one high moment of ruffies and tecca—Rohypnol and heroin.
Jonathan never intended to lose his life, but you can and will if you
do drugs.

Thank you.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you very much.

Bethany Long.

{The prepared statement of Ms. Goodwin follows:]


100

1998, 1994, 1995, under the last Congress, we tried to make sure
that we had adequate funding. Now what we need to do is make
sure that the funds are Properly expended on the most important
programs and successful programs and then also examine what
other missing links in the Federal chain of command are missing.
And if it takes judicial reforms like we heard today, we may need
to do those things.

So I want to thank the community for coming out. I want to
thank my chairman for coming to our community, and I turn the
Chair back over to you. Thank you, sir.

Mr. ZELIFF. Thank you again for your leadership and your com-
mitment.

I just have to tell you that I am leaving the Congress after 6
years and going back into the private sector. I do not know of any-
thing in my life that I have done that has been more productive.
I think, than to get our Nation refocused, along with others, and
John has made a major commitment there.

The job is just beginning. Two years ago, nobody, nobody was
talking about this thing. It was just going down the tubes. And
when we go out and we visit people on the front lines and people
who put their lives on the line and they are working with very lim-
ited resources, we can do better. We can do so much better and
what you heard today, I mean I wish we had a chance to videotape
this and bring this back and show it to—almost required for every
parent to see, because we have got to wake up. I guess our mes-
sage—I did a thing on CNN the other day just before our 6 hour
hearing, and you know, Charles Biernbaum said, any last com-
ments and I just said “Wake up, America.” If we do not, we go
down the tubes.

My son is in the Marine Corps, he got a Purple Heart in Somalia,
he is involved in Haiti, we are involved in all these other efforts,
Bosnia and all this. What a waste compared to what we really
should be fighting. We should be fighting to preserve the future of
our country and our kids and the next generation and all of us.

You heard it today. This is a report from the front lines here in
central Florida. The hearing is now adjourned. Thank you all very
much.

[Whereupon, at 2 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

°


41

to kill people. It is not the heroin that is the problem, because that
is the end of the problem, it is the marijuana that kids are——

Mr. ZELIFF. That gets you started.

Ms. Lona. Yes, that is what—and like you hear about, like the
inhalants. People are like, well they are just experimenting because
those are just little things and they will get out of it. Well, I did
not get out of it and a lot of people started off doing inhalants,
doing—you know, smoking marijuana a couple of times, drinking.
And it is so easy to get that stuff with all the nightclubs and every-
thing, it is so easy, you can just walk in there and go uP to any-
body. I used to go to school just for the fact that I knew certain
people were drug dealers and I knew that they were going to have
the party. So I would go there, you know, to school just to find out
where the party was that weekend, how much alcohol they were
going to have and all that stuff. And you know, me being a girl,
I used the little cutesy thing, and so I never had to pay for my
drugs because I was just a tiny, innocent little girl. It was really
easy, and I could go down like to the school lockers and say, you
know, this is what is in there, that is what is in there and the
teachers did not do anything. People could not tell parents.

Mr. ZeELIFF. Did the teachers know as much as you knew in
terms of who was into drugs, who was not, what was in which lock-
er and all that?

Ms. Lona. Some of them, yes.

Mr. ZELIFF. And what did they do about it?

Ms. LONG. Nothing, because they did not want to get brought
into it. They did not want to be a part of it because it would be
bad for them or it would make the school look bad or, you know,
stuff like that. And so a lot of it was the confidentiality law that
they had that they could not tell parents. But they could not send
a kid to treatment if they really needed it, they could not tell some-
body that they are a harm. You have to wait until you are suicidal
or homicidal in order to tell somebody that there is a problem,
which I think is ridiculous because I was suicidal but it does not
mean I am going to tell somebody. If I am really suicidal, I am not
going to tell somebody I am going to kill myself, so they can stop
me.

It was all a result of my drug use and I think that a lot of times
people focus on like the heroin or the crack cocaine, and it is the
other drugs that people are allowing to get by. Little kids smoking
cigarettes thinking it is cool, get accepted by the older kids who are
drinking and partying and it is not illegal to run away. So you
know. I ran away once and hid in a closet and the police officer
came in and said is she here and the lady said no and so he left,
he did not even bother searching. I was just standing there. Be-
cause it is not illegal to run away, for kids.

That is kind of how I got started into drugs and how I started
doing my stuff. Now I am almost 3 years sober, I will be 3 years
sober next month, which is wonderful. I go to school now. [Ap-
plause.

Go to school, I play my violin now, do stuff at church. I even
work at the treatment center that I was in, that I actually hated
for so long, because I did not have a problem. But now I owe every-
thing to that place and to God, to my family who stuck by me the