U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

33–795 WASHINGTON : 2019

HEARING ON ENSURING SOCIAL SECURITY SERVES 

AMERICA’S VETERANS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SECURITY 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

FEBRUARY 7, 2018 

Serial No. 115–SS07 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Ways and Means 

( 

ii 

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS 

KEVIN BRADY, Texas, Chairman 

SAM JOHNSON, Texas 

DEVIN NUNES, California 

DAVID G. REICHERT, Washington 

PETER J. ROSKAM, Illinois 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

ADRIAN SMITH, Nebraska 

LYNN JENKINS, Kansas 

ERIK PAULSEN, Minnesota 

KENNY MARCHANT, Texas 

DIANE BLACK, Tennessee 

TOM REED, New York 

MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania 

JIM RENACCI, Ohio 

PAT MEEHAN, Pennsylvania 

KRISTI NOEM, South Dakota 

GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina 

JASON SMITH, Missouri 

TOM RICE, South Carolina 

DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona 

JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana 

CARLOS CURBELO, Florida 

MIKE BISHOP, Michigan 

DARIN LAHOOD, Illinois 

RICHARD E. NEAL, Massachusetts 

SANDER M. LEVIN, Michigan 

JOHN LEWIS, Georgia 

LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas 

MIKE THOMPSON, California 

JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut 

EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon 

RON KIND, Wisconsin 

BILL PASCRELL, JR., New Jersey 

JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York 

DANNY DAVIS, Illinois 

LINDA SA ́ NCHEZ, California 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

TERRI SEWELL, Alabama 

SUZAN DELBENE, Washington 

JUDY CHU, California 

DAVID STEWART, Staff Director 

BRANDON CASEY, Minority Chief Counsel 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SECURITY 

SAM JOHNSON, Texas, Chairman 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania 

GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina 

JASON SMITH, Missouri 

TOM RICE, South Carolina 

DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona 

JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut 

BILL PASCRELL, Jr., New Jersey 

JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York 

LINDA SANCHEZ, California 

iii 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Advisory of February 7, 2018 announcing the hearing ........................................ 2 

WITNESSES 

Gina Clemons, Associate Commissioner, Office of Disability Policy, Social 

Security Administration ...................................................................................... 6 

QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Questions from The Honorable Sam Johnson to Gina Clemons .......................... 28 

PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Center for Fiscal Equity, Michael G. Bindner, statement .................................... 33 

(1) 

ENSURING SOCIAL SECURITY SERVES 

AMERICA’S VETERANS 

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 2018 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SECURITY, 

Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:01 a.m., in Room 

2253, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Sam Johnson [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. 

[The advisory announcing the hearing follows:] 

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Insert 33795A.001

(@ 

WAYS AND MEANS 

CHAIRMAN KEVIN BRADY 

Chairman Johnson Announces Hearing on Ensuring Social Security Serves 

America's Veterans 

House Ways and Means Social Security Subcommittee Chairman Sam Johnson (R-TX) 

announced today that the Subcommittee will hold a hearing entitled " Ensuring Social Security 

Serves America's Veterans." The hearing will focus on the Social Security Administration's 

initiatives to reduce processing times and expedite claims for certain veterans, as well as efforts 

by the agency to hire veterans. The hearing will take place on Wednesday, February 7, 2018 

in 2253 Rayburn House Office Building, beginning at 9:00AM. 

In view of the limited time to hear witnesses, oral testimony at this hearing will be from invited 

witnesses only. However, any individual or organization may submit a written statement for 

consideration by the Committee and for inclusion in the printed record of the hearing. 

DETAILS FOR SUBMISSION OF WRITTEN COMMENTS: 

Please Note: Any person(s) and/or organization(s) wishing to submit written comments for the 

hearing record must follow the appropriate link on the hearing page of the Committee website 

and complete the infonnational fonns. From the Committee homepage, 

http://waysandmeans.house.gov, select "Hearings." Select the hearing for which you would like 

to make a submission, and click on the link entitled, "Cli ck here to provide a submission for the 

record." Once you have followed the online instructions, submit all requested 

infonnation. ATTACH your submission as a Word document, in compliance with the formatting 

requirements listed below, by the close of business on Wednesday, February 21, 2018. For 

questions, or if you encounter technical problems, please call (202) 225-3625 . 

FORMATTING REQUIREMENTS: 

The Committee relies on electronic submissions for printing the official hearing record. As 

always, submissions will be included in the record according to the discretion of the Committee. 

The Committee will not alter the content of your submission, but we reserve the right to format it 

according to our guidelines. Any submission provided to the Committee by a witness, any 

materials submitted for the printed record, and any written comments in response to a request for 

written comments must conform to the guidelines listed below. Any submission not in 

compliance with these guidelines will not be printed, but will be maintained in the Committee 

files for review and use by the Committee. 
3 

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Chairman JOHNSON. Well, good morning. We are going to get 

going here, if it is okay with you all. I will wait until one of them 

gets his coat off. 

Mr. PASCRELL. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. I want to say good morning and welcome 

to today’s hearing on ensuring Social Security helps America’s veterans. 

Before turning to today’s topic, I wanted to take a minute to say 

a few words about another public servant, Ed Lorenzen. As some 


Insert 33795A.002
4 

of you may know, Ed’s life was tragically cut short just a few weeks 

ago. 

Ed was the type of person you would want as a staffer, whip 

smart and a hard worker. And while we didn’t always agree on 

how best to fix it, his passion for addressing Social Security and 

our unsustainable debt was unmatched. 

His death is a loss for the American people, and he will be 

missed. My prayers are with his children, family, and friends during this difficult time. 

Turning back to today’s hearing, our veterans serve our country, 

and in return, the government should make it easy to access the 

services and benefits they have earned. This means having a simple and fast process when our veterans apply for Social Security 

disability benefits. 

This is especially true for our wounded warriors. Americans 

across the board are waiting far too long for a disability hearing, 

and Social Security must get the backlog under control. 

But today, we are going to hear how Social Security speeds up 

disability claims for certain veterans. We will also hear about how 

it uses electronic health records from the VA and DOD to speed up 

decisions. 

I am glad to see Social Security using technology to keep disability decisions moving, and that is a good thing. 

Finally, we will hear about Social Security’s great job when it 

comes to hiring our veterans. During their time in uniform, our 

veterans demonstrated the highest level of duty, honor, and discipline, and they demonstrated tremendous knowledge and skill in 

their jobs. These are attributes every employer seeks in a candidate. 

Colleagues, Americans rightly expect us to do the best for our 

veterans. Social Security is no exception. While there are things 

that Social Security is getting right, there is still room for improvement. And as Chairman and as a 29-year veteran, I am committed 

as ever to making sure Social Security effectively serves our veterans. 

I thank our witness, Ms. Clemons, for being here today, and I 

look forward to hearing her testimony. 

I now recognize Mr. Larson for any opening statement he wishes 

to make. 

Mr. LARSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 

holding this hearing today. I, too, want to recognize the untimely, 

tragic passing of Ed Lorenzen and his son, Michael. This is a terrible loss to his surviving children and the rest of his family and 

his many friends. 

And it is also a loss to Congress and the Nation. Ed was a tireless advocate for fiscal responsibility and an honest broker who 

served both sides of the aisle. We will miss his expertise, his guidance, and his wit. 

With that, we turn to today’s hearing. And, again, I applaud the 

chairman for this. Americans know that Social Security is first and 

foremost an insurance plan. It is not an entitlement. It is actually 

the insurance that they pay for. They have earned these benefits 

with every paycheck and know they can count on them. 

5 

This is true for veterans as for all American workers. In fact, 

more veterans receive benefits from Social Security than receive 

veterans disability or pension benefits. 

We must fight back against calls to make cuts to Social Security 

and instead come together in a bipartisan way, as the President of 

the United States has suggested, and strengthen Social Security 

and add to Social Security. I commend the President for that. 

Both the chairman and I have offered comprehensive plans to address the long-term shortfall in Social Security so that Americans 

can continue to count on these benefits whether they become disabled or retired, or if they should die prematurely leaving young 

children behind. 

While differing in our approaches, I think we can safely say we 

hope we will be able to have a hearing—I keep on pushing for 

Plano, Texas, because I want to go to the chairman’s home district 

and his hometown—but anywhere would be fine with me to get a 

hearing on Social Security. 

Today’s hearing focuses on our veterans and how Social Security 

serves them. The Social Security Administration has taken many 

steps in recent years to ensure that our veterans receive the benefits they have earned. They conduct extensive outreach to veterans 

at hospitals and other facilities to ensure that wounded warriors 

know about the benefits they have earned from Social Security. 

They flag all disability applications from wounded servicemembers 

for expedited process. 

Also, the Social Security Administration has worked out agreements with the Defense Department and the Department of Veterans Affairs to receive electronic medical evidence to help speed 

up the evaluation of veteran applications. 

On average, disabled workers wait over 600 days for decisions. 

That patently has to be improved. But disabled veterans get a 

hearing decision in less than half that time, about 8 to 10 months, 

and that is still not acceptable and needs to be improved. 

However, veterans also are not immune from the consequences 

of continued inadequate funding provided by SSA to operate the 

Social Security system. Since 2010, the number of beneficiaries for 

Social Security has grown by 14 percent as the baby boomers reach 

retirement age. As many as 10,000 baby boomers a day now become eligible for Social Security. 

In that same time, Social Security’s operating budget has fallen 

by 11 percent after accounting for inflation. This has made it difficult, even impossible, for Social Security to serve our constituents 

promptly when they need help the most. 

Veterans report difficulty reaching SSA on its 800 number when 

they have questions or problems. If they try to visit a field office 

in person, they wait for service. It can be several hours. And even 

though they are moved to the head of the line if they need a hearing before the administrative law judge, their benefits can be held 

up waiting for a decision to be written or receive their checks. 

We need to do better by our veterans and by all Americans so 

that they can receive the benefits they deserve and what they have 

earned. 

Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you again for holding this hearing and, as a veteran yourself, understanding that with less than 

6 

1 percent of the entire Nation who serves in our military and, in 

fact, our Peace Corps, our AmeriCorps Vista, Teach America, et al., 

it is long overdue, especially for those Americans who put their 

lives on the line every day, that we provide them with the kind of 

services that they do for us on a daily basis. And I commend you 

for holding this hearing, and yield back. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. I appreciate your comments. 

And as is customary, any member is welcome to submit a statement for the record. 

Before we move on to our testimony today, I want to remind our 

witness to please limit your oral statement to 5 minutes, if you can. 

However, without objection, all of the written testimony will be 

made a part of the hearing record. 

We have one witness today. Seated at the table is Gina Clemons, 

Associate Commissioner, Office of Disability Policy, with the Social 

Security Administration. 

Ms. Clemons, welcome, and thanks for being here today. We appreciate you. Please proceed. 

STATEMENT OF GINA CLEMONS, ASSOCIATE COMMISSIONER, 

OFFICE OF DISABILITY POLICY, SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION 

Ms. CLEMONS. Thank you, Chairman Johnson. 

Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Larson, and members of 

the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to speak about our efforts to support our Nation’s servicemembers and veterans. I am 

Gina Clemons, Associate Commissioner in the Office of Disability 

Policy at the Social Security Administration. 

I start by thanking you, Chairman Johnson, for your 29 years of 

dedicated service to the United States Air Force. I also thank all 

of the members of this Subcommittee for your service to our Nation 

and for your ongoing support of our servicemembers and veterans. 

Social Security protects all Americans and we are proud of the 

help we provide to men and woman who serve and are serving our 

country. As an Army veteran myself, I appreciate the opportunity 

to highlight our targeted outreach initiatives, expedited processes, 

recruitment efforts, and collaborations with the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Department of Defense. 

To reach veterans, we employ a variety of outreach measures 

through our over 1,200 field offices. In this effort, our frontline employees are assisted by our regional public affairs specialists. In fiscal year 2017 alone, our public affairs specialists participated in 

more than 260 targeted outreach events with a total estimated audience of 70,000 people. 

As an example of the success of these relationships, military 

transition programs include information on our programs and SSA 

assists servicemembers in completing disability applications at 

military hospitals. 

Going through the Walter Reed Medical Center for my own military discharge, I know how daunting the process is. Having also 

had the privilege to see it from the other side, where I was able 

to take disability applications, I still recall the visible relief of 

servicemembers and family members, many embracing you because 

it was just one less thing they had to think about. 

7 

In addition to outreach, we have a targeted website at SSA.gov 

where servicemembers, veterans, and their families can find information about our program, application process, and answers to 

common questions. 

Providing quality and timely services is at the core of what we 

do for our servicemembers and veterans. At SSA, we provide disability benefits to people who cannot work because of their medical 

condition. 

VA considers a veteran’s ability to work only in limited circumstances. VA primarily bases disability compensation on the severity of the veteran’s impairments, from injuries or diseases incurred or made worse while on active duty. Different definitions require separate decisions, but we work together to strengthen both 

programs. 

For example, through collaboration, we expedite our decisions at 

all levels of review for wounded warriors and veterans who have 

100 Percent Permanent and Total VA rating. Since partnering with 

DOD in 2005 and VA in 2014, we have expedited over 200,000 

claims for these wounded warriors and veterans. 

In response to interest from this Committee and the Armed Services Committee, we collaborated with DOD and VA to electronically 

exchange thousands of medical records. Through this process we 

have reduced the time it takes to receive medical records and improve the quality of our medical record extract. 

In addition to our services, we are proud of the success in recruiting and supporting veterans. We know military service helps 

to develop strong character and results-driven attitude. These attributes make veterans a perfect fit for our agency. Quite simply, 

hiring veterans is smart practice, and that is what we do. 

Last fiscal year, we participated in over 200 recruitment fairs, 

100 of which were at military bases or sponsored veterans organizations. At these fairs, we assembled a database of highly skilled 

veterans’ resumes, helping us to hire 769 veterans, including 469 

new colleagues with a disability like myself. 

But it is not just about hiring veterans, it is also about supporting them. For example, we created training material for our 

managers on military culture. We collaborated with our Veterans 

and Military Affairs Advisory Council to refresh our veterans employee website, which includes information on agency policies, programs, and career resources. 

In short, we are committed to providing high quality service in 

all aspects of our program administration and to supporting our 

veteran employees and their families. 

Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Larson, and members of 

the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to describe the 

ways we support the men and women who have put on a uniform 

to serve our Nation with distinction. I extend a heartfelt thank you 

to all the servicemembers and veterans in attendance today. 

I am happy to answer any questions. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Clemons follows:] 

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Insert 33795A.003

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SECURITY 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

February 7, 2018 

STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD 

GINA CLEMONS 

ASSOCIATE COMMISSIONER 

FOR THE OFFICE OF DISABILITY POLICY 

SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION 
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Insert 33795A.004

Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Larson, and Members of the Subcommittee: 

Introduction 

Thank you for inviting me to speak to you about our efforts to support our nation's Veterans. 

am Gina Clemons, Associate Commissioner for the Office of Disability Policy at the Social 

Security Administration (SSA). As an Army Veteran myself, I appreciate this opportunity to 

discuss the ways we help the men and women who have served our country. Before I begin, I 

want to give special thanks to Chairman Johnson for his 29 years of dedicated service to our 

country in the U.S. Air Force. I would also like to thank all of the members of this subcommittee 

for their ongoing support of our Veterans. 

Today, I want to share with you an overview of the services SSA provides to the public, the 

processes SSA has implemented to help our Wounded Warriors and other Veterans, SSA's 

efforts to reach out and help our nation's Veterans, and our partnerships with the Department of 

Veterans Affairs (VA) and the Department of Defense (DoD). 

Services We Provide to the Public 

We administer the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program, commonly 

referred to as "Social Security." Individuals earn coverage for Social Security retirement, 

survivors, and disability benefits by working and paying Social Security taxes on their earnings. 

Payroll tax revenues fund the Social Security program. We also administer the Supplemental 

Security Income (SSI) program, which provides monthly payments to people with limited 

income and resources who are aged, blind, or disabled. Adults and children under age 18 can 

receive payments based on disability or blindness. General tax revenues fund the SSl program. 

Few government agencies touch the lives of as many people as we do. Social Security pays 

monthly OASDI benefits to approximately 62 million individuals. During fiscal year (FY) 2017, 

we paid about $934 billion to Social Security beneficiaries. We continue to be mission-focused 

and mission-driven as we serve millions of Americans who need services from us, including our 

nation's Veterans. 

Services We Provide to Wounded Warriors and Veterans 

Social Security coverage protects all Americans. After the September II , 200 I attack on the 

United States, many members of the armed forces were called to active duty. While defending 

our country, scores of our active duty Service members sustained severe physical and mental 

impairments that changed their lives. Many of these Service members qualify for Social 

Security disability benefits. We are proud of the help we provide these Wounded Warriors and 

other Service members, and Veterans through our disability programs as well as our commitment 

and success in hiring and retaining Veterans. 
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Insert 33795A.005

Outreach to Wounded Warriors and Vetertms 

Our disability programs can play a crucial role in aiding Wounded Warriors and other Service 

members and Veterans with disabilities only if they are aware of the programs and able to use 

them. Therefore, we employ a variety of outreach measures; our partnerships with the DoD and 

the VA have strengthened these efforts. For example, our field office employees visit military 

and VA hospitals across the country. These employees perfonn various tasks for Service 

members and Veterans, including screening potential disability applicants to see if they meet the 

Wounded Warrior status, taking claims and scheduling appointments, thereby providing faster 

and more convenient service to our service men and women. I was able to witness first-hand the 

appreciation for these services by Service members and their families having had the privilege to 

participate in this initiative with the Silver Spring, Maryland Field Office working with 

Wounded Warriors at the Walter Reed Military Medical Center. Since the time I had this 

opportunity, further advancements allow us to conduct interviews and take disability claims by 

video conference. 

As further example of the benefits of our collaborative efforts, through our agreement with the 

U.S. Army Warrior Transition Command, Army Warrior advocates provide information about 

our process to Wounded Warriors or their families within two weeks of that Wounded Warrior's 

arrival at a military treatment facility. We also established an agreement with the Navy's 

Physical Evaluation Board Liaison Officers (PEBLOs); under the agreement, the PEBLOs 

present information about our Wounded Warrior process to Marines and Sailors during transition 

briefings. Similarly, VA distributes our Wounded Warrior guide at its sites. 

We also reach out to Service members and Veterans through our nationwide network of public 

affairs specialists. This network contacts the military community as well as local newspapers, 

community organizations, banks, and TV stations to publicize our rol e and commitment to 

Service members and Veterans. They also conduct presentations at national and local events. In 

FY 2017, our public affairs specialists participated in more than 260 events for Wounded 

Warriors and Veterans with a total estimated audience of70,000 people. 

In addition to our outreach efforts, we have several information sources, such as a dedicated 

website for Wounded Warriors and other Service members and Veterans. The website, 

www.ssa.gov/people/veterans/, includes specific infonnation for Wounded Warriors and 

Veterans, including a link to our guide that explains our disability program and expedited filing 

process for Wounded Warriors and Veterans who have a VA benefit rating of 100 percent 

Permanent and Total (P&T). The website also contains information for all Service members, 

Veterans, and family members, with answers to frequently asked questions and other helpful 

websites, including links to several VA and DoD websites. 

Expedited Processing 

We work closely with DoD and VA to identify ways to streamline and expedite processes to 

support our Service members and Veterans. In 2005 , we began providing expedited processing 

of filed disability claims for Wounded Warriors-defined as any current or former Service 

Member who sustained an illness, injury, or wound while on active duty on or after October I, 
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Insert 33795A.006

2001-regardless of where or how the injury occurred. On March 17, 2014, we started 

expediting the claims for Veterans who filed for SSA disability and had a VA compensation 

rating of I 00 percent P&T using a similar process. 

Through automated data exchanges we have with DoD (Wounded Warriors) and VA (100 

percent P&T), we are able to automatically add an indicator to our records. With this indicator, 

when a Wounded Warrior or Veteran with a 100 percent P&T rating applies for our disability 

programs, the claims specialist receives a prompt and attempts to take the claim at this initial 

point of contact. If the person does not have time or the information they need, we schedule an 

appointment within three days to take the claim. A flag is automatically then added to the 

Wounded Warrior or 100 percent P&T claim and the claim moves to the front of the line through 

all levels of review. 

As of December 29, 2017, we have processed 172,272 Wounded Warrior claims at the initial 

level and 31 ,974 claims for Veterans with a 100 percent P&T rating. On average, in FY 2017 it 

took us roughly seven fewer days to process Wounded Warrior claims at the initial level and five 

fewer days to process a I 00 percent P&T claim. At the appeals level, in FY 2017, the average 

processing times (APT) for closed hearing cases are 237 days for Military Casualty/Wounded 

Warrior and 297 for 100 percent P&T disability, compared to an overall APT of605 days. 

However, it is not enough to decide Wounded Warrior claims quickly. We must also decide 

them accurately and we have taken several steps to help our State disability adjudicators. For 

example, in recent years we have updated our Listings of Impairments to provide clear 

information on two significant war injuries - traumatic brain injury (TBI) and post-traumatic 

stress disorder (PTSD). We have provided our adjudicators with supportive written and video 

training that addresses how to recognize and assess the symptoms of these conditions. 

Moreover, we continue to work with our Veteran advocates, medical experts, and the VA to 

ensure we are providing helpful information to our adjudicators. For example, we are currently 

working on a Continuing Medical Education (CME) video on recognizing the signs and 

symptoms ofTBI and a PTSD fact sheet to assist our adjudicators in understanding the variations 

in how and when symptoms of PTSD may manifest. 

Finally, before we identify a Wounded Warrior claim, the Service member may have returned to 

work. If that Service member met our definition of disability prior to returning to work, he or 

she may be eligible to receive disability benefits during that period. We call this period a closed 

period of disability, and provide extensive training on when to consider the possibility of 

awarding it in Wounded Warrior claims so that Service members do not lose benefits to which 

they are entitled. 

Hiring Veterans at SSA 

Not all of our efforts solely focus on those Veterans who cannot work. We recognize that the 

transition to civilian life can be difficult and finding employment can be particularly daunting. 

We are proud of our success in recruiting, supporting, and retaining Veterans. Through their 

military service, Veterans have developed strong interpersonal skills, an ability to learn new 
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Insert 33795A.007

skills and concepts, flexibility in working in teams or independently, an ability to work 

efficiently and diligently in a fast-paced environment; they also get things done. These attributes 

make them a perfect fit for our agency. Quite simply, hiring Veterans is a smart practice. 

We seek Veteran job applicants through a number of recruitment efforts. ln FY 2017, we 

participated in 212 recruitment fairs, including I 00 held at military bases and Veteran 

organizations. We maintain a database of Veteran resumes, which facilitates referring highly 

skilled veteran candidates to hiring officials nationwide for consideration of employment 

opportunities. 

We utilize both military specific recruitment efforts and internship programs, such as Non Paid 

Work Experience Program and Operation Warfighter, to attract Veterans. We developed new 

Veteran-focused recruitment materials to market SSA career opportunities within the Veteran 

community and held regular meetings with our National Recruitment Cadre to share best 

practices and collaborate on consistency of our marketing efforts to brand SSA as an employer of 

choice. 

In FY 2017, we hired 2,367 new employees of which 769 were Veterans and 469 were disabled 

Veterans. Of these Veterans, 441 were hired through special hiring authorities, such as 

Appointments for Veterans with a disability rating of 30 percent or more, Schedule A, Veterans 

Employment Opportunities Act of 1998 (VEOA), and Veterans Recruitment Appointment 

Authority (VRA). 

Our interest in Veteran applicants does not end once we hire them. We also strive to create a 

workplace that supports our Veteran employees and is sensitive to their needs. For example, we 

provide a Veteran-specific training video for managers and Human Resources Specialists. This 

training video covers a variety of topics such as developmental programs for our Veteran 

employees, Veteran-focused employee services, and Veteran-focused benefits. Our Veteran 

employees can readily access Veteran-related information on our Veterans Employee Terminal 

website. The website also provides a variety of materials to educate our managers about the 

effects ofTBI and PTSD and agency policies, programs, and career resources for Veteran 

employees and managers. Through our Veterans and Military Affairs Advisory Council, Veteran 

employees can receive new employee orientation and ongoing support. 

Partnerships with VA and DoD 

As I stated, supporting our nation's Veterans is an agency commitment--one shared by our 

Federal partners. Many of our efforts are brought about through the collaborative work with our 

partners, such as VA and DoD. We greatly value our mutually beneficial partnerships; they 

present effective and efficient opportunities to ensure that the nation's Service members and 

Veterans with disabilities receive all of the benefits and services that they deserve. 

4 
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Insert 33795A.008

In September 2009, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) published a report on 

improving Wounded Warriors' access to benefits 1

. Subsequently, we worked with the DoD and 

VA to develop a joint plan of action to address the report's recommendation. As documented in 

the final joint plan of action report provided to this Subcommittee and the Armed Services 

Subcommittee on Military Personnel in April 20 17, working together we improved 

communication, collaboration, and medical information sharing. Following are just a few 

additional highlights resulting from this productive partnership. 

Our Role in the Disllbility Compensation Claims Process 

As you know, VA has a disability compensation claims process that is separate and distinct from 

the disability programs that we administer. The Social Security Act defines disability as the 

inability to engage in any substantial gainful activity due to a physical or mental impairment that 

has lasted or is expected to last at least one year or to result in death. In contrast, VA provides 

disability compensation to Veterans based on the severity of disabilities resulting from injuries or 

diseases incurred while on active military service, or were made worse by active military service. 

To process the claims it receives, VA requests medical records from us when VA disability 

compensation claimants indicate that they have also filed for, or are receiving, Social Security 

Disability Insurance or SSI benefits. In FY 2017, we received 41 ,520 requests for medical 

evidence from VA. We place a high priority on the requests we receive from VA and work very 

hard on responding to them within five business days. 

We have taken several steps to ensure that we continue to respond timely to VA's requests. We 

centralized our process in our National Records Center (NRC) in Independence, Missouri. The 

NRC receives all requests and provides all records. By completely centrali zing our process, we 

have greater control over these requests and ensure timely responses to all of them. 

lmprovetl Metlicllllnformlltion Shllring 

VA and DoD also helps provide information to administer our program. Effective October II, 

20 16, we began receiving medical documentation from the VA through the nationwide electronic 

data exchange, commonly known as health IT. This new health IT process helps us make 

disability determinations more expeditiously for all Veterans and their family members who 

apply for disability benefits by reducing the time it takes to receive medical records 

electronically from all VA facilities. As of January 23 , 20 18, we received 7 1,882 VA-held 

medical records via health IT. Additionally, effective November 23, 20 15, we implemented this 

same process with DoD. Since that time we received 59,402 DoD-held medical records via 

health IT. 

1 GAO, "Social Security Disability: Additional Outreach and Collaboration on Sharing Medical Records Would 

Improve Wounded Warriors' Access to Benefits" (GA0-09-762) 
14 

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Insert 33795A.009

While we are no longer working under a joint plan of action, we continue to participate in 

leadership and staff-level meetings regularly to share information and collaborate. For example, 

quarterly we meet with the VA to discuss data sharing agreements, policy considerations, and 

other best practices and lessons learned. Recently, we were able to work with the VA to enhance 

our data sharing agreements. Such agreements allow us to provide income information to assist 

VA in deciding eligibility for its pension program. Additionally, VA utilizes death data 

maintained by SSA to help VA meet the requirements of Do Not Pay, which reduces improper 

Government payments by eliminating payment error, waste, fraud, and abuse. These 

improvements provided the opportunity for more effective use of data within the VA to serve 

Veterans. Our ongoing communication and collaboration with all of our Federal partners will 

enable us to continue to enhance our serves to our Wounded Warriors and other Service 

members and Veterans. 

Conclusion 

Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Larson, and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for 

this opportunity to describe the ways we support the men and women like you who have served 

our nation. Brave men and women have always put their lives on the line to protect this country. 

Through the programs and services we provide, it is our duty to show our appreciation and 

support for their sacrifices. We are proud of our ongoing partnerships and processes to help 

Wounded Warriors and other Service members and Veterans. By working together, we continue 

to provide the high quality service that our military men and women deserve. Again, thank you 

for all you have done. 

I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. 
15 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you for your testimony. 

We will turn to questions. As is customary, for each round of 

questions I will limit my time to 5 minutes and will ask my colleagues to also limit their questioning time to 5 minutes as well. 

Ms. Clemons, as a 29-year veteran, I have long been committed 

to ensuring that our country does right by our veterans. And when 

it comes to our disabled veterans, it is my understanding that Social Security is processing initial claims for disabled veterans 5 to 

7 days faster than for the general public. While the Social Security 

Administration says it is expediting these cases, that doesn’t seem 

like it is really that much faster. 

Can you tell us more about how you are trying to expedite 

claims? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Chairman Johnson, thank you for the opportunity to describe our process. 

Veterans’ and servicemembers’ claims are often quite complex, 

with multiple chronic conditions at times and extensive medical 

records. It is not surprising that we see a veteran’s claim with over 

1,000 pieces of records in it. Despite this, we are able to expedite 

their claims by putting in a process at all levels of review and in 

each step in our program. 

For example, when a veteran calls, rather than waiting the 

standard goal of 28 days to set an appointment, as noted, we set 

an appointment in 3 days. When the field office transfers that 

claim to the Disability Determination Services, they immediately 

start working the claim rather than putting it in a queue for assignment that could take a week. 

Similar events happen when we have the medical consultants 

and the psychological consultants review the case. Rather than 

waiting in a queue, as soon as they are ready for review, they get 

reviewed. 

So at each step, we are looking for ways to improve the process, 

and this happens at all of our levels of the program, including at 

the appeals level where we are able to cut the processing time in 

half because there are more pending claims at that level. 

Chairman JOHNSON. You know, one thing that seems to really 

to make a difference is electronic health records, which can cut 

processing time nearly in half. And I know you work with the VA 

and DOD on this already. Are there any other ways to get more 

electronic health records for veterans? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Chairman Johnson, thank you for your support 

of our health IT activities. 

As more veterans are receiving care outside of the VA facility, we 

also need to ensure that we are getting those records as expeditiously as possible. 

Under our IT modernization efforts, part of that strategy includes acquiring electronic evidence from all records in an electronic format. So the more electronic records that we receive from 

all facilities, it will help the veterans as well as all the individuals 

we serve. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Okay. One thing I hear a lot from our 

wounded warriors is that they want to work, yet in reality, some 

of the policies that are supposed to help actually make things harder. You know, the Ticket to Work and Work Incentive ImproveVerDate Sep 11 2014 23:22 Feb 21, 2019 Jkt 033795 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 I:\WAYS\OUT\33795.XXX 33795
16 

ments Act of 1999 tried to help individuals with disabilities who return to work by extending their Medicare eligibility for several 

years. 

Can you tell us what typically happens to a person returning to 

work who has other insurance available to them, such as through 

their employer, and as a result no longer want to be on Medicare? 

And do they have to stay on Medicare or do they have a choice? 

And how is this different for our wounded warriors? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Chairman Johnson, somebody who has other insurance through their employer often has the option to be on Medicare or not. This is different for our veterans, our former military 

servicemembers, as they are required, if they are eligible for Medicare Part B, they are required to enroll in Medicare Part B to be 

able to get and receive TRICARE. 

Chairman JOHNSON. And you all follow them, I presume? 

Ms. CLEMONS. We do, yes. We absolutely do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you for that, Ms. Clemons. 

And, colleagues, as you have heard there is a quirk in the law 

that means these veterans aren’t treated the same as everyone 

else. Some of these veterans may want to keep their Medicare Part 

B and some may not. 

But here is the problem. These veterans who want to keep access 

to TRICARE For Life have no choice but to stay on Medicare, 

which is more expensive than TRICARE, and I am not sure that 

is right. 

In other words, the interaction between Social Security’s disability program and TRICARE program inadvertently penalizes 

those wounded warriors who return to work after recovering from 

their injuries. 

That is why I have introduced bipartisan legislation, H.R. 2243, 

the HEARTS Act, the Health Equity and Access for Returning 

Troops and Servicemembers Act. This bill would repeal the requirement that wounded warriors maintain and pay for Medicare coverage upon returning to work in order to keep access to TRICARE. 

It is the right thing to do. 

I will now recognize my colleague, Mr. Larson, for any questions 

you might have. 

Mr. LARSON. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Ms. Clemons, for your testimony. I have a couple 

of rudimentary questions. 

Number one, how many veterans currently receive Social Security benefits? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Our last estimate is 1 million veterans. And we 

can confirm for the record that that is the current number, but 1 

million. 

Mr. LARSON. And what type of Social Security benefits is it that 

veterans and their families depend on? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Veterans can receive all of the benefits of our 

program, whether it is for themselves or—— 

Mr. LARSON. Do veterans pay into the Social Security system 

through their military service? 

Ms. CLEMONS. They do indeed. 

Mr. LARSON. How do Social Security disability benefits differ 

from VA disability compensation? 

17 

Ms. CLEMONS. Social Security benefits are, in part, an income 

replacement for your inability to work. Veterans benefits are a 

compensation for a loss incurred or made worse in the service. So 

that plays out because there are different definitions in a couple of 

ways. 

For example, we only pay full benefits, total benefits where VA 

can pay compensation for a number of impairments. They can add 

up to reach 100 percent, but they are partial disability based on 

the severity of the condition. 

And we look at work. We are looking at all jobs on the national 

economy to see if a person can do that. In the limited circumstances—and it is limited—that VA looks at work, they are 

really looking at can the person do their prior work in their community. So big distinctions on that. 

And VA is also looking at how the person presents. For example, 

if somebody has high blood pressure and depression but they are 

service-connected, they will get compensation for that, regardless of 

if they get treatment or not. 

In our program, we would look at those impairments, but if they 

are treated and controlled, then they wouldn’t necessarily hinder 

their ability to work. 

Mr. LARSON. But a veteran can receive both Social Security and 

veterans benefits as well. 

Ms. CLEMONS. Absolutely can, and many do. 

Mr. LARSON. I think it was Ronald Reagan that said facts don’t 

lie and they are a difficult thing. But with 10,000 baby boomers a 

day becoming eligible for Social Security, and with the number of 

beneficiaries having grown by 14 percent as the baby boomers come 

through retirement, Social Security’s budget has fallen during the 

same time by 11 percent. 

Do you think you could be providing better service? I think Mr. 

Johnson rightly points out some of the inadequacies that exist. And 

one would think, based on the numbers coming through the system 

and the cuts in the budget and with use of modern technology, that 

we ought to be able to do a better job. 

Ms. CLEMONS. So, Ranking Member Larson, with the President’s budget, we will continue to hold fast in our commitment to 

veterans and military servicemembers. 

Mr. LARSON. Yeah, but that doesn’t answer my question. 

Ms. CLEMONS. We will also be able to work our priority workloads, such as implementing our CARES plan, to bring down the 

pending backlog. 

Mr. LARSON. So basically you are saying, this is fine, you can 

do without any increase, and this 10,000 baby boomers a day has 

no impact on Social Security, you are going to continue to operate 

as efficiently as possible. 

Ms. CLEMONS. We are going to continue to look for efficiencies 

in our program and become more efficient where we can through 

our IT modernization—— 

Mr. LARSON. So you need no more increase, you are fine with 

the budget as it is? 

Ms. CLEMONS. With the President’s budget we can address our 

priority workloads, pending bringing down the—— 

18 

Mr. LARSON. So we just went through this whole thing where 

we are talking about people who aren’t in the military and the exhaustive time that they have to wait to get a disability claim, and 

you are fine with that? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Ranking Member Larson, with the President’s 

budget, we will be able to address our workloads. 

Mr. LARSON. So that is a nonanswer answer. But, frankly, it is 

very disturbing when you see the premier government agency that 

has responsibility to deal with its American citizens and say that 

with respect to waiting for disability claims, both veterans and 

nonveterans, that that is an absurd amount of time given the technology that we have. And you insist that, well, we can do just fine 

with what we have. Is that right? Ms. CLEMONS. Well, with $100 million extra, for every $100 

million extra that we receive we can work an additional 106,000 

disability claims and 51,000 hearings. 

Mr. LARSON. So will you be able to come back to this committee 

next year and say, ‘‘Given the cuts that we received in the budget 

and given our ability to deal with this, that we will see drastic improvement, both for our veterans and for our citizens who deserve 

disability and service and efficiency out of their government’’? 

Ms. CLEMONS. I will tell you that we will continue to operate—— 

Mr. LARSON. That is a nonanswer. Will you commit to that? Because we would like to have things measured by standards. I think 

everybody on this committee especially wants to see that. We have 

got a large population out there that we have to serve. We have 

enormous stress on that system with 10,000 baby boomers coming 

in there a day. And so it is helpful to people who are legislators 

to know whether or not you are adequately funded. 

You are saying you are and you can deal with all of these. So 

I am saying, good, we will expect a report from you next year showing how you decreased that time in which people get their disability payments in both the military side as well as your average 

citizen. 

Ms. CLEMONS. Ranking Member Larson, I can tell you that as 

an agency we will continue to use our resources as efficiently and 

as effectively as we can. We will concentrate on our—— 

Mr. LARSON. Will that translate into getting these benefits out 

to people in a more timely basis? 

Ms. CLEMONS. We will continue to advance IT modernization, 

which will allow us to acquire electronic evidence that will bring 

down the timeline for benefits. 

Mr. LARSON. All right. So we are not going to get any answers 

here, so that is unfortunate given the position that you hold and 

given that every American relies on Social Security. 

Very disturbing, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you for your questions. 

You need to give us direct answers, if you can, please. Mr. Rice, 

you are recognized. 

Mr. RICE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Ms. Clemons, for being here today. 

I see a couple of things here that are just curious to me. One is 

that your disability applications have decreased by almost 500,000 

19 

per year from 2012 to 2016. What is your current level of disability 

applications per year? 

Ms. CLEMONS. The number of disability applications is about 

2.7 million per year. 

Mr. RICE. So it was, then, 3.2 in 2012? 

Ms. CLEMONS. It may have been at that time. I can confirm for 

the record. 

Mr. RICE. Two-point-seven million applications per year. 

And also that your number of days to review has increased since 

2012 significantly. 

Why is that? Has the number of judges gone down? Or what is 

causing the increase in the backlog. 

Ms. CLEMONS. Well, there are a number of considerations, as 

noted. We have a greater number of people coming through our 

process than we had before. 

Mr. RICE. But what I am confused about—I don’t mean to badger you, I am sorry, but I just want to understand. This says you 

have 500,000 less claims per year now than you did in 2012, but 

the number of days it takes to get a hearing has doubled in that 

same time period. 

What causes that? I mean, if the number of claims has gone 

down by 20 percent, it seems like the number of days, unless you 

had a huge backlog to begin with. Are you losing judges? Are you 

losing experienced people? What is causing the problem? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Well, Congressman Rice, what I can tell you is 

that it takes us some time to work through the cases that we had. 

So to the 2012 cases, we have to continue to work our cases. There 

are a number of other variables. Since that is not my area specifically, I can submit those areas for the record on what other additive factors address that. 

Mr. RICE. Okay. I know that—and correct me if I am wrong— 

but the primary objective, the basic function of this process is you 

want people to get disability that they are entitled to, but you have 

to make sure they are entitled to it, right? So you have to go back 

and review their medical records and make sure that they are, in 

fact, disabled and that, in fact, keeps them from working, correct? 

Isn’t that the primary function of what you are doing here? 

Ms. CLEMONS. It is, indeed. 

Mr. RICE. Yeah. And so, I know I used to actually rent, I had 

commercial real estate, I used to rent an office to you guys, and I 

saw technology improving through that time. They used to have a 

number of judges come through this office and have hearings, and 

they switched to tele-hearings where the judges never came. They 

were just on a TV screen in the office and allowed judges to have 

more hearings. 

What other types of technological advances have you had to increase your efficiency and decrease these waiting times? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Congressman Rice, thank you for acknowledging 

the improvements we have made in our videos to work on our 

pending claims. 

Other areas where we are working, we have spoken about health 

IT. We continue to increase the amount of information we get 

through the electronic record. 

20 

But in addition to speeding the amount of time, we are actually 

building in decision support in those capabilities. So when we receive the record, it is just not a record. It has enhancements to it, 

where it will actually flag for our adjudicators that it may meet one 

of our medical listings. 

We are continuing to build out that functionality using the machine learning, natural-language processing, optical character recognition to ensure that it is accurate decisions that we are making, 

expeditiously and efficiently using technology. 

Mr. RICE. Do you have like a triage function, where when somebody comes in and they are very obviously totally disabled that you 

can just pick them out immediately and not put them through this 

2 years of waiting for disability? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Absolutely. Our sequential evaluation, the fundamental process that we use to evaluate claims, looks at medical 

first. If you can meet the criteria on medical there is no other 

longer assessment needed. That is our medical listings of an impairment. Most of the—like a larger percent of the people that 

meet those medical listings are held at the initial level. They never 

get to an appeal because it is a clear decision. 

We also have expedited processes for people that are TERI, 

where a terminal illness, or compassionate allowances for individuals that do meet those significant—of our severest, so we can 

work them through the process. 

Mr. RICE. Okay. So I am just going to leave with this one question for you to follow up. 

If what this memo says for this hearing is true, that the number 

of claims has dropped from 3.2 million in 2012 to 2.7 million in 

2016, which is like a 20 percent drop, or maybe a little less, 15 percent drop, why has the number of days to get to a hearing gone 

from 300 days to 600 days, unless you have got 20 percent less 

judges? 

Do you have 20 percent less judges? 

Ms. CLEMONS. I do not know the number—the percentage of 

judges. It is not my area. 

Mr. RICE. I am curious about what the fundamental underlying 

problem is. 

Thank you, ma’am. 

Ms. CLEMONS. I will get it to the record. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

Mr. Pascrell, you are recognized. 

Mr. PASCRELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for holding 

this hearing. 

Dr. Clemons, you come to this position very qualified, you are experienced. Your first responsibility and my first responsibility is to 

the country, not to any political party, not to any President. 

Ensuring that our veterans receive disability and retirement benefits and that their families receive survivor benefits in a timely 

fashion is critical for the 20,000 veterans who receive Social Security Administration benefits in my district. 

As you testified, the Social Security Administration has successfully expedited disability claims with wounded warriors who have 

a benefit rating of 100 percent permanent and total. 

21 

Now, we could do more, of course. More can be done to reduce 

claims processing time, you have heard, and ensure our veterans 

receive accurate decisions on their claims. 

And I am looking at two charts. One chart is the cuts to Social 

Security funding and when they really began. And the other chart 

is the waiting times for disability benefit appeals. They coincide. In 

other words, when the cuts came, the time expanded. 

As more servicemen and -women return home from the battlefield, I do not understand why this administration proposed eliminating the Individual Unemployability benefits program in its 

budget last year. AMVETS estimated this proposal would hurt 

225,000 military veterans. It would decrease the disability benefit 

paid to an unmarried veteran with a 90 percent disabled rating by 

a full $1,200 a month. A veteran with a 60 percent disability rating 

who lives alone was estimated to see a cut of $1,890.34 cents, 

which is 63.6 percent. 

This is outrageous, this is unacceptable, especially since candidate Trump promised to improve the treatment of veterans and 

promised not to cut Social Security. 

The Social Security Administration budget has declined 11 percent since 2010. There are unprecedented delays in appeals hearings despite wait times being lower for veterans and callers are 

hung up on or getting busy signals before connecting with an operator. 

There has been a closure of 64 field offices throughout the Nation 

and a disability hearings backlog with an average, as you have 

heard from several of us, 605 days waiting period. 

So everything is not hunky-dory, is it, Dr. Clemons? 

Ms. CLEMONS. We are running efficiently under our budget. 

Mr. PASCRELL. Yeah, I have heard you say that word—excuse 

me, Chairman—I have heard that word 4 times, 5 times, 50 times 

from you. The numbers are the numbers. And you have got to deal 

with those numbers. I have to deal with those numbers. 

It is not acceptable to me. So it apparently is acceptable to you 

because you are running at the most efficient rate you possibly can. 

Dr. Clemons, can you guarantee there will be no cuts to Social 

Security benefits in the next budget, administration’s budget? 

Could you guarantee that? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Congressman, I cannot make guarantees. 

Mr. PASCRELL. Dr. Clemons, would the Social Security agency 

be able to reduce processing times for veterans if the agency had 

additional resources? Dr. Clemons? 

Ms. CLEMONS. If we had $100 million in additional resources, 

we would be able to process 106,000 additional claims. With our 

budget, the President’s budget, we are concentrating our priorities 

on efficiencies. We are looking at using our technology for IT modernization. So we are on a path to implement—— 

Mr. PASCRELL. Would the Social Security agency be able to reduce processing times for veterans if the agency had additional 

staff? 

Ms. CLEMONS. As noted, if we had additional funding, $100 

million, we would be able to process additional claims. That would 

include additional staff in that estimate. 

22 

Mr. PASCRELL. So if additional funding, and you pointed to a 

particular figure, helps you get more folks, you think you will increase. So it strikes me as, if we support that budget, increase it 

more, we get more responses and shorten the time even further. 

Am I using proper or improper logic? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Congressman, we will operate within the budget 

we are given. If we are given additional funds, we would be able 

to fund 106,000 additional—— 

Mr. PASCRELL. And I am sure if you were given nothing, you 

would operate within that, too. 

Dr. Clemons, I have one final question. Thank you for your courtesies, Mr. Chairman. Would removing the Federal hiring 

freeze—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. Your time is up, you know. 

Mr. PASCRELL. Yeah, I know. All right, go ahead, Mr. Chairman. I was just going to ask one more question. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Well, go ahead and ask it. 

Mr. PASCRELL. Thank you, sir. 

Would removing the Federal hiring freeze for the Social Security 

Administration improve service to veterans and those receiving Social Security benefits? 

Ms. CLEMONS. With the hiring freeze we—you know, we are 

continuing to serve our veterans now. They are getting expedited 

claims and expedited process. We are putting them at the forefront. 

And our service would remain strong for veterans regardless of our 

funding. 

Mr. PASCRELL. Regardless of the funding. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Yes. 

Mr. Schweikert, you are recognized for 10 minutes. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Oh, we are all in trouble now. Thank you, 

Mr. Chairman. 

Look, actually, this is one of those, maybe there is going to be 

a tonal quality, but I think there is a commonality of all the members on the panel, just wanting to know we are doing the right 

thing. 

So let me start with a couple things that we are seeing in your 

written testimony, actually talking about electronic records and the 

fact that veterans that are applying for disability come to you with 

actually an electronic record and the fact that they move through 

the system somewhat more efficiently because of that. 

First, could you help me understand that efficiency of those electronic records and what that means to the population you are helping? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Yes, Congressman, thank you for the question. 

With the electronic records, that is actually a data exchange, it 

is an agreement that we have using the health information technology directly with the VA and DOD. So a veteran is not involved. 

They give us their permission. And we—— 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. And I am going to jump on you just because—and it is not only data sharing with VA, DOD, but even 

some private sources? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Okay. 

23 

Ms. CLEMONS. So we are trying to optimize the use of health 

information technology in general for all individuals, including veterans. 

So when we receive that information, quite simply what happens 

is right now we have a process that relies on scanning, faxing, a 

number of ways to get the information. Using health IT, within seconds we are able to ping out to the other component, the VA, DOD, 

to see if they have information. 

If they do, we get the notice. We then send back our permission 

to receive the information. They send back that information to us. 

And it comes in a standard format with information that helps us, 

the adjudicators, to make a decision. For example, it will flag us 

earlier about conditions that might be our most severe conditions. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. I will recap with you in just a second. So in 

the sort of data-sharing agreements you have, it is coming to you 

in a standard. So is it auto-filling your forms because you have 

data field conformity? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Yes. I am probably past the technology, but, yes, 

it comes in. I can tell you we have created one standard form, the 

information comes in that format with a summary upfront of what 

the record contains, which is very helpful for veterans’ claims, particularly, which could be quite extensive. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Because I was seeing something in here, 

and correct me if I have my math or what I am reading wrong, it 

becomes the difference of when you are working with a veteran and 

they have the electronic records, they will get processed in, like, 47 

days compared to 89 days. Help me understand what that meant. 

Ms. CLEMONS. So I think you are speaking to the fact that if 

we can make a decision on the veteran’s claim with just the health 

information that we would get through health IT—so, for example, 

they have a severe condition, we get all of their medical evidence, 

it shows that they have a medical condition—we can make that decision 45 percent faster. 

Now, it is a lesser amount if we have to get supplemental information; however, it still expedites the process through health IT. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. And you have had these data-sharing agreements since 2016 when it was up and running? 

Ms. CLEMONS. So with the VA, we started our agreement in 

2016, and November of 2015 with DOD. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Okay. So that is actually one of your areas 

that you would say has been successful? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Absolutely, I would say, efficiency is electronic 

records. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. So in our minute and a half left, tell me, 

let’s do a speed run, what do you see working and where do you 

see frustrations? Let’s start with the good stuff. What is working? 

Ms. CLEMONS. We have updated our disability policies, bringing our medical listings 93 percent up-to-date. We are working on 

our vocational policies. We have also implemented process policy to 

make sure that we are making timely, accurate decisions, advancing our IT modernization, not just through health information exchange but across the board to consolidate systems. We are building case processing systems. 

24 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Okay. On the things that are frustrating 

you. 

Ms. CLEMONS. We operate in a dynamic environment and we 

have to continue to keep pace through our policies and change to 

do that, and that takes time. So it is being nimble to make sure 

that we are making those changes. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. And I always wish we had more time, but 

now that I have 10 minutes, I was hoping somewhere here, or some 

member will ask, because there were some interesting numbers on 

applicants, veterans that were actually also getting vocational opportunities, were actually still finding some employment opportunities even with their personal impairments. And I was just curious 

what enlightenment you can give us on that. So somewhere here, 

if you ever get a chance to throw that in. 

So with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

Ms. Sanchez, you are recognized. 

Ms. SANCHEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I think all of us here today can agree on one thing, and that is 

we must do more to ensure that our veterans are able to retire 

from their service with some degree of dignity and security for 

their future. 

Social Security is the bedrock of the American retirement system, 

and the promise that Social Security has made is that after a lifetime of hard work, if people contribute, that seniors can retire with 

dignity and security. 

Like the general population, Social Security is there for veterans 

when they retire or when they experience a debilitating injury or 

illness that prevents them from working. And I was surprised to 

find that nearly 20 percent of adult Social Security beneficiaries 

are, in fact, veterans. 

And I know that the Social Security Administration has taken 

important steps to better serve veterans, to try to expedite the 

processing of their claim. For example, disabled veterans’ claims 

are moved to the front of the line, and Social Security, I know, 

works with the VA and DOD to further expedite claims. 

And it is laudable that they have taken those necessary steps to 

try to improve expediency in processing veterans’ claim, but I can’t 

help but feel that Social Security’s dwindling operation budget 

makes it harder and harder to provide excellent service to all beneficiary. 

Budget cuts have weakened Social Security’s ability to fully serve 

veterans and other recipients as well. And despite the growing 

number of beneficiaries, Social Security’s operating budget has actually declined by about 11 percent since 2010. 

And when you have that kind of decline, service is naturally 

going to suffer. Call centers, we get reports call centers can’t keep 

up with the incoming calls. Half of callers hang up before they even 

speak with a service representative. Some experience delays in 

their benefits or overpayments. 

So without properly funding Social Security, they can’t provide 

the quality and timely service that they should be. And when we 

don’t do that, we are, in fact, not serving all of our beneficiaries. 

25 

Ms. Clemons, I thank you for coming today to testify. I see that 

you are a veteran and that you have worked in various Federal 

agencies over the years. So I, first of all, would like to commend 

you and thank you for your service to our country. 

And my first question is about the accuracy of claims, because 

it is not just about getting claims processed quickly, it is also about 

getting them processed accurately. 

Can you tell me how frequently does SSA update the listing of 

impairments and training materials for assessing impairments that 

are unique to veterans? 

Ms. CLEMONS. Congresswoman Sanchez, thank you. 

We agree that accuracy needs to stay forefront and that we need 

to concentrate on quality, and that means staying current. So we 

have had a focused area on updating our medical listings of impairment. We are now 93 percent complete with our comprehensive updates. 

The last one that is remaining is impairments, musculoskeletal 

impairments. That is now out for interagency review, and we are 

looking forward to public comments on that shortly. 

Once we update that, we will be 100 percent up-to-date on our 

listings. And we are working on listings for other impairments that 

are targeted. Once we get those three listings targeted done, we 

will be on a 3- to 5-year update cycle for our listings. 

Of particular interest is just 2 years ago we updated neurological 

listings, and that covers TBI. We have always evaluated individuals with all impairments, TBI, PTSD. But we made it clear in the 

neurological listing what TBI was and how to evaluate it, giving 

the benefits to the veteran. 

We also last year updated our mental listings, and in it specifically named PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, gave guidance to 

our adjudicators outside the listings. We are providing training and 

updates. 

Ms. SANCHEZ. But how often is that typically done? Or what is 

the recommendation in terms of how often that should be done? 

Ms. CLEMONS. So our goal is to keep our listings on a 3- to 5- 

year update cycle, where we will go in as medical changes and do 

targeted revisions. However, if something changes, and we are constantly meeting with medical experts, Federal partners to get medical information as medical advances, we can always go in and do 

a targeted revision. 

It is not just in the listings. For example, we are doing continuing medical education on TBI right now because of new information, and we are providing that to our medical consultants so 

they are aware of the advancement. 

Ms. SANCHEZ. Very quickly. The improved information sharing 

seems to be achieving the goal of making determinations quicker. 

Are there any areas in which that process can be improved? 

Ms. CLEMONS. For information sharing and data exchanges and 

things like that, well, what we are doing for information exchanging is we work with our Federal partners. We have a community 

of practice where we host with other Federal partners, talk about 

best practices, see if there are areas for learning from each other. 

We have a quarterly meeting with the VA. For example, during 

that quarterly meeting on data and policy we identified opportuniVerDate Sep 11 2014 23:22 Feb 21, 2019 Jkt 033795 PO 00000 Frm 00029 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 I:\WAYS\OUT\33795.XXX 33795
26 

ties to provide the VA with additional information on date of death 

and changed our process. So we are constantly looking for opportunities to increase those data sharings and have the relationships in 

place to do that. 

Ms. SANCHEZ. Thank you. I yield back. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

Mr. Smith, you are recognized. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Ms. Clemons, for being here. I appreciate your time 

before our committee. 

I also appreciate hearing the work that you all are doing in 

prioritizing veterans. They have served for our country, and if their 

Federal Government can make their process of navigating through 

the Federal Government easier and swifter, I applaud you for that. 

And I think that your numbers are proven to that. 

Also, I do want to point out, my colleague was asking you all 

kinds of budget questions earlier. I think that Members of Congress need to remember that the President doesn’t pass a budget. 

Congress passes the budget. 

In my five years here, I have not seen Congress ever accept a 

President’s budget, whether they are Republican or Democrat, 

straight on. So you being forced to defend or ask on a budget, I find 

to be unacceptable. And I think you handled yourself very well, and 

I appreciate you being here. 

But we need to remember that just voting no every time a budget 

is on the floor doesn’t give you more money to serve the people that 

we complain about. Actually voting yes on a budget and appropriating money gives more resources instead of just creating Trump 

tantrums in committee. 

So I apologize for that. But I want to thank you for handling that 

quite well. 

In the Missouri Eighth Congressional District we have roughly 

186,000 individuals on Social Security, and 40,000 of those beneficiaries are disabled workers. We don’t have the numbers that I 

could find that would show how many of those were veterans. I 

think that would be very helpful, if somehow the Social Security 

Administration could help different Members to see how many veterans are within their different congressional districts. That would 

be helpful. 

The wait times, though, in Missouri, I have to bring up. I still 

feel like they are a significant issue for all people in general. If you 

look at the St. Louis Social Security office, the wait time is 672 

days, and that is 73 days worse than the national average. So the 

folks in Missouri are not being served as well as what they could 

be. 

And I would recommend, if we do have more discretionary spending, that maybe more investment in the Midwest and Missouri to 

help bring that down with employees would be great. It is definitely a cheaper cost of living than on the East and West Coast if 

we actually had more of these processing facilities in the Midwest. 

I do want to point out that I want to applaud you again with 

your numbers from 2017 in hiring veterans. That is phenomenal. 

I think almost a third of your employees that you hired are veterans. 

27 

So your agency puts your boots to the pavement, and you follow 

through on securing and making sure that veterans are taken care 

of through the process and also in employees. 

So I want to thank you for being here. I want to thank you for 

dealing with Members of Congress. 

And thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

You know, our veterans deserve the best service from our government, including Social Security. And as we have heard today, Social Security has several ways to speed up disability decisions for 

our veterans, from electronic health records to ensuring Social Security processes veterans’ claims quickly. 

Social Security is helping veterans. Social Security is doing a 

great job hiring our veterans. But there is always more that can 

be done. And I encourage Social Security to continue to find ways 

to help our veterans, and I hope that you will do that. 

And I want to thank our witness for your testimony. And thank 

you also to our members for being here. With that, the committee—— 

Mr. LARSON. Mr. Chairman? 

Chairman JOHNSON. Just a moment. Do you care to make a 

comment? 

Mr. LARSON. Yes, I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. You are recognized. 

Mr. LARSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding 

this hearing. 

And I want to thank our witness, Ms. Clemons, for coming as 

well. 

And I would only add that I hope that we are able to have another hearing on this and where are able get to some of the questions, I think very straightforward questions, that Mr. Schweikert, 

Mr. Rice, and Mr. Pascrell, yourself, Mr. Chairman, answered. 

I do, understand, Ms. Clemons, that you are soldiering very well 

on behalf of the administrative responsibility. 

I would also add that I think that Mr. Trump, especially someone 

who stood alone on a stage and indicated under the most severe 

kind of pressure that Social Security needed to be preserved and 

expanded, would be deeply concerned about the lag in time, the inefficiencies in the system. 

And hopefully, if we can hear from other advocates about how we 

can fix those, how we can speed those up, how this process can be 

better. Unfortunately, we didn’t hear that today. And I thank you, 

Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

And thank you for being here today. We appreciate your testimony. And with that, the subcommittee stands adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 9:58 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

[Member Questions for the Record follows:] 

28 


Insert 33795A.010

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS 

Gina P. Clemons 

Associate Commissioner, 

Office of Disability Policy 

Social Security Administration 

640 I Security Boulevard 

Woodlawn, MD 21207 

Dear Ms. Clemons: 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

WASHINGTON, DC 20515 

February 22, 20 18 

Thank you for your testimony before the Committee on Ways and Means Subconunittee on 

Social Security at the February 7, 20 18 hearing on "Ensuring Social Security Serves America's 

Veterans." In order to complete our hearing record, we would appreciate your responses to the 

following questions: 

I. How does the Social Security Administration (SSA) reach out to and work with military 

spouses? Do you use the avai lable special hiring authority? 

2. An August 20 17 report from the SSA's Inspector General (!G) noted erroneous payments 

to some veterans listed as deceased by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), as well 

as problems with some of the data the SSA received from the VA. The IG recommended, 

and the SSA agreed, to work with the VA to ensure future data exchanges include 

comprehensive death information. Has the SSA and the VA discussed these issues, and 

how would you describe the quality of the data the SSA receives since those discussions? 

The SSA also agreed to review the aud ited data fi le and take action, as necessary. Has 

the SSA completed the review and what action has the SSA taken? 

We would appreciate your responses to these questions by March 8 2018. Please send your 

response to the attention of Amy Shuart, Staff Director, Subcommittee on Social Security, 

Committee on Ways and Means, U.S. House of Representatives, 20 18 Rayburn House Office 

Building, Washington, DC 205 15. In addition to a hard copy, please submit an electronic copy 

of your response in Microsoft Word format to mm.russell@mail.house.gov. 

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions for the record. If you have any 

questions concerning this request, you may reach Amy at (202) 225-9263. 

Sam Johnson 

Chairman 

Subcommittee on Social Security 
29 


Insert 33795A.011

~,'t-...... t(q.f"). 

~ 

\,}!! 1!~./ 

SOCIAL SECURITY Office of Retirement and Disability Policy 

March 27,2018 

The Honorable Sam Johnson 

Chairman, Subcommittee on Social Security 

Committee on Ways and Means 

House of Representatives 

Washington, DC 20515 

Dear Mr. Chairman: 

Thank you for your letter of february 22,2018, requesting additional information to complete 

the record for the hearing on February 7, 2018, "Ensuring Social Security Serves America's 

Veterans." Enclosed you will find the answers to your questions. 

I hope this information is helpful. If I may be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to 

contact me, or have your staff contact Royce Min, our Acting Deputy Commissioner for 

Legislation and Congressional Affairs, at (202) 358-6030. 

Enclosure 

Sincerely, 

~~6i,e~ Melissa Spencer for 

Gina P. Clemons 

Associate Commissioner 

for Disability Policy 

SOCIAL SECURITY ADMJ JSTRATION BALTIMORE. MD 11:?35-0001 
30 


Insert 33795A.012

Post-Hearing Questions for the Record 

Submitted to Gina Clemmons 

Associate Commissioner 

Office of Retirement and Disability Policy 

U.S. Social Security Administration 

From Chairman Sam Johnson 

"Ensuring Social Security Serves America's Veterans" 

February 07,2018 

United States House of Representatives, Committee on Ways and Means, 

Subcommittee on Social Security 

I. How does the Social Security Administration (SSA) reach out to and work with 

military spouses? Do you use the available special hiring authority? 

Through our Regional Offices, we conduct outreach to military veterans. As an example 

of how we reach out to military spouses, the San Francisco region offers quarterly Family 

Support Presentations for the Wounded Warrior Battalion West at Camp Pendleton, 

California, for spouses and parents of military individuals. This outreach effort provides 

families with infonnation to help them navigate the disability claims process for their 

injured service family members. 

Regarding the special hiring authority, we train all hiring managers and human resource 

specialists on the Military Spouse appointment authority (Executive Order 13473), which 

allows us to appoint a military spouse without competition. We have used this authority 

when filling competitive service positions. The authority does not entitle spouses to an 

appointment over any other applicant. 

We also provide annual training to our managers and a fact sheet to assist SSA 

employees who have a family member on active duty. Our Veterans Employee Terminal 

- Reintegration Program web site provides training, personnel policies, and fact sheets to 

support the military family. 

Finally, the SSA is a committed partner of the DoD's Military Spouse Employment 

Partnership, or MSEP. This partnership between more than 360 employers has facilitated 

the employment of more than 114,000 military spouses in the last seven years. 

2. An August 2017 report from the SSA's Inspector General (IG) noted erroneous 

payments to some veterans listed as deceased by the Department of Veterans Affairs 

(VA), as well as problems with some of the data the SSA received from the VA. The 

IG recommended, and the SSA agreed, to work with the VA to ensure future data 
31 

f 


Insert 33795A.013

Enclosure - Page 2 - The Honorable Sam Johnson 

exchanges include comprehensive death information. Has the SSA and the VA 

discussed these issues, and how would you describe the quality of the data the SSA 

receives since those discussions? The SSA also agreed to review the audited data file 

and take action, as necessary. Has the SSA completed the review and what action 

has the SSA taken? 

We are working with the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) to ensure our data 

exchanges include comprehensive death information. For example, we met with the VA 

last September to discuss the IG audit. We also will cover data exchange issues at our 

future SSA-V A bi-annual collaboration meetings. The VA is very committed to 

improving their death data and providing more accurate death information to us. 

We also continue to verify death information before taking any adverse action that affects 

our beneficiaries. 
32 

[Public Submissions for the Record follows:] 

33 


Insert 33795A.014

Comments for the Record 

United States House of Representatives 

Committee on Ways and Means 

Social Security Subcommittee 

Hearing on Ensuring Social Security Serves America's Veterans 

Wednesday, February 7, 2018, 9:00 AM 

By Michael G. Bindner 

Center for Fiscal Equity 

Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member Larson, thank you for the opportunity to submit my 

comments on this topic. The hearing will focus on the Social Security Administration's 

initiatives to reduce processing times and expedite claims for certain veterans, as well as efforts 

by the agency to hire veterans. We will leave these topics to Agency witnesses and explain how 

veteran retirement benefits; health care and other retirement might fight within our proposals. As 

usual, our comments are based on our four-part tax reform plan, which is as follows: 

• A Value Added Tax (VAT) to fund domestic military spending and domestic 

discretionary spending with a rate between I 0% and 13%, which makes sure very 

American pays something. 

• Personal income surtaxes on joint and widowed filers with net annual incomes of 

$ 100,000 and single filers earning $50,000 per year to fund net interest payments, debt 

retirement and overseas and strategic military spending and other international spending, 

with graduated rates between 5% and 25% in either 5% or I 0% increments. Heirs would 

also pay taxes on distributions from estates, but not the assets themselves, with 

distributions from sales to a qualified ESOP continuing to be exempt. 

• Employee contributions to Old Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) with a lower income 

cap, which allows for lower payment levels to wealthier retirees without making bend 

points more progressive. 

• A VAT-like Net Business Receipts Tax (NBRT), essentially a subtraction VAT with 

additional tax expenditures for family support, health care and the private delivery of 

governmental services, to fund entitlement spending and replace income tax filing for 

most people (including people who file without paying), the corporate income tax, 

business tax filing through individual income taxes and the employer contribution to 

OASI, all payroll taxes for hospital insurance, disability insurance, unemployment 

insurance and survivors under age sixty. 
34 


Insert 33795A.015

We believe in holistic retirement. In other words, instead of building a variety of pensions, assets 

are pooled into one place and retirement paid by the major employer, which for many workers in 

the future the one where they were last an employee-owner. 

Firms employing qualified veterans would accept either a cash payment from the Department of 

Veterans Affairs or would be able to adjust their net business receipts taxes over time to add 

additional preferred shares or voting shares (depending on whether a cooperative or corporate 

model of governance is chosen) in time for retirement. Some credit might be taken from any 

Value Added Tax if such a tax is used to fund veteran's affairs in the future. 

Cooperative firms would fund veterans' health care needs, either at their preferred facilities or 

OVA hospitals or medical facilities. If a veteran would move to a new employer, his or her stock 

would be traded to the receiving firm, including the VA entitlement. 

Of course, before we replace Social Security with cooperative or ESOP pensions and include 

veterans accordingly, we must first save it (although EPI notes, correctly, that using realistic 

rather than conservative estimates has the program solvent as far as the eye can see. 

As I wrote in the January 2003 issue of Labor and Corporate Governance, we would equalize the 

employer contribution based on average income rather than personal income. We would also 

increase or eliminate the cap on contributions. The higher the income cap is raised, the more 

likely it is that personal retirement accounts are necessary. 

One new wrinkle is that I would also put a floor in the employer contribution to OASI, ending 

the need for an EITC - the loss would be more than up by gains from an equalized employer 

contribution - as well as lowering the ceiling on benefits. Since there will be no cap on the 

employer contribution, we can put in a lower cap for the employee contribution so that benefit 

calculations can be lower for wealthier beneficiaries, again reducing the need for bend points. 

A major strength of Social Security is its income redistribution function. We suspect that much 

of the support for personal accounts is to subvert that function - so any proposal for such 

accounts must move redistribution to account accumulation by equalizing the employer 

contribution. 

We propose directing personal account investments to employer voting stock, rather than an 

index funds or any fund managed by outside brokers. There are no Index Fund billionaires 

(except those who operate them). People become rich by owning and controlling their own 

companies. Additionally, keeping funds in-house is the cheapest option administratively. 
35 


Insert 33795A.016

We bet that this is even cheaper than the Social Security system - which operates at a much 

lower administrative cost than any defined contribution plan in existence. 

Safety is, of course, a concern with personal accounts. Rather than diversifying through 

investment, however, I propose diversifying through insurance. A portion of the employer stock 

purchased would be traded to an insurance fund holding shares from all such employers. 

Additionally, any personal retirement accounts shifted from employee payroll taxes or from 

payroll taxes from non-corporate employers would go to this fund. 

The insurance fund wi ll save as a safeguard against bad management. I fa third of shares were 

held by the insurance fund than dissident employees holding 25. 1% of the employee-held shares 

(16.7% of the total) could combine with the insurance fund held shares to fire management if the 

insurance fund agreed there was cause to do so. Such a fund would make sure no one loses 

money should their employer fail and would serve as a sword of Damocles' to keep management 

in line. This is in contrast to the Cato/ PCSSS approach, which would continue the trend of 

management accountable to no one. The other part of my proposal that does so is representative 

voting by occupation on corporate boards, with either professional or union personnel providing 

such representation. 

The suggestions made here are much less complicated than the current mix of proposals to 

change bend points and make OASI more of a needs based program. If the personal account 

provisions are adopted, there is no need to address the question of the retirement age. Workers 

will retire when their dividend income is adequate to meet their retirement income needs, with or 

even without a separate Social Security program. 

No other proposal for personal retirement accounts is appropriate. Personal accounts should not 

be used to develop a new income stream for investment advisors and stock traders. It should 

certainly not result in more "trust fund socialism" with management that is accountable to no 

cause but short term gain. Such management often ignores the long-term interests of American 

workers and leaves CEOs both over-paid and unaccountable to anyone but themselves. 

Progressives should not run away from proposals to enact personal accounts. If the proposals 

above are used as conditions for enactment, I suspect that they won't have to. The investment 

sector will run away from them instead and will mobilize their constituency against them. Let us 

hope that by then workers become invested in the possibilities of reform. 

One final feature needs to mentioned. In the employee owned corporation or cooperative of the 

future, CEOs will not be commanding huge salaries but will be bidding for their positions in 

open auction, including three and four-star flag officers recruited from retirement. 
36 


Insert 33795A.017

While they can certainly spend or save the dividends earned from either voting or preferred 

shares, competition with other managers or retirees will be required to keep base pay from 

reaching even the high six figures, let alone seven. Employee-owned firms do not bribe generals, 

although we will give them a bonus for any contributions they make in either engineering, 

leadership or marketing. 

All veterans will have the same options for taking dividends as current pay rather than saving 

them for retirement. 

Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee. We are, of course, avai lable for direct 

testimony or to answer questions by members and staff 
37 

Æ 


Insert 33795A.018