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94–484 PDF 2004

S. Hrg. 108–528

NOMINATION OF DAWN A. TISDALE

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON THE

NOMINATION OF DAWN A. TISDALE, OF TEXAS, TO BE COMMISSIONER, 

U.S. POSTAL RATE COMMISSION

APRIL 29, 2004

Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman 

TED STEVENS, Alaska 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah 

PETER G. FITZGERALD, Illinois 

JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire 

RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Deleware 

MARK DAYTON, Minnesota 

FRANK LAUTENBERG, New Jersey 

MARK PRYOR, Arkansas 

MICHAEL D. BOPP, Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

JOHANNA L. HARDY, Senior Counsel 

JOYCE A. RECHTSCHAFFEN, Minority Staff Director and Counsel 

JENNIFER E. HAMILTON, Minority Research Assistant 

AMY B. NEWHOUSE, Chief Clerk 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 1

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 2

Senator Lautenberg .......................................................................................... 8

WITNESSES 

THURSDAY, APRIL 29, 2004

Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of Texas ................................................................................................................. 3

Dawn A. Tisdale, of Texas, to be Commissioner, U.S. Postal Rate Commission 4

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Johnson, Hon. Eddie Bernice: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 3

Tisdale, Dawn A.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4

Biographical and professional information requested of nominees .............. 11

Pre-hearing questionnaire and responses for the Record ............................. 15

(1)

NOMINATION OF DAWN A. TISDALE 

THURSDAY, APRIL 29, 2004

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Susan M. Collins, 

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Collins, Akaka, and Lautenberg. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

Chairman COLLINS. The Committee will come to order. 

Good morning. Today the Committee on Governmental Affairs is 

holding a hearing to consider the nomination of Dawn Tisdale to 

be a Commissioner on the Postal Rate Commission. The Commission reviews the Postal Service’s requests for new domestic mail 

rates, fees, and mail classifications and makes recommendations to 

the Postal Board of Governors. The Commission may also propose 

changes in mail classification to the Postal Service, investigate 

complaints concerning postal rates, fees, mail classifications or 

services that involve issues of nationwide significance, and hear appeals from postal customers concerning decisions to close or consolidate retail post offices. In short, the Commission is instrumental 

in helping the Postal Service meet its financial and operational 

challenges. 

The good news for Mr. Tisdale is that he would join the Postal 

Rate Commission at a time when the very direction of the Postal 

Service is being debated and reconsidered. The bad news is that he 

will be called upon to help bail out a ship that is taking on water 

fast. 

The Postal Service is the linchpin of a $900 billion mailing industry that employs 9 million Americans in fields as diverse as direct 

mailing, printing, catalogue production, paper manufacturing, and 

financial services. 

David Walker, the General Accounting Office’s Comptroller General, has expressed concern about the Postal Service’s more than 

$90 billion in unfunded liabilities and other obligations. He has 

also pointed to the need for fundamental reforms to minimize the 

risk of a significant taxpayer bail-out or dramatic rate increases. 

Earlier this month the Committee concluded a series of eight 

hearings taking an in-depth look at the 35 legislative and administrative recommendations of the President’s Commission on the U.S. 

Postal Service. In its final report issued last July, the Commission 

described the need for a vigilant, broadly empowered and indeVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:33 Jul 16, 2004 Jkt 094484 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\94484.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PHOGAN
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pendent Postal Regulatory Board. Among other things, the Commission recommended that the current rate-setting process, often 

described as lengthy and litigious, be replaced with a more streamlined process, that the regulators should have the authority to clarify and refine both the scope of mail monopoly and the universal 

obligation, recommendations that I would note I disagree with, and 

that members of the regulatory board should be chosen solely on 

the basis of their technical qualifications and professional experience. 

It has been more than 30 years since the Postal Reorganization 

Act was passed. The time has come to reassess how the Postal 

Service should adapt to its customers, competitors, and technology 

and best fulfill its mission in the 21st Century. The need to preserve a strong and universal Postal Service is clear, particularly in 

States with large rural areas, such as my home State of Maine. 

Within days, Senator Tom Carper and I plan to introduce a postal 

reform bill that will incorporate many of the Commission’s recommendations. 

Mr. Tisdale, you have several years of valuable experience with 

the Postal Service. I look forward to hearing your thoughts this 

morning on what you believe to be the appropriate role of the Postal Service’s regulator. 

Before I call on Congresswoman Johnson to introduce our nominee, I would like to turn to my distinguished colleague, who has 

a great interest in postal issues and contributes so much to our 

Committee. Senator Akaka. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. I 

again want to say it is so good working with you as always; I have 

enjoyed serving with you. 

I also want to add my welcome to Congresswoman Johnson. I am 

so happy that you are here to introduce our Commissioner. And 

welcome to Dawn Tisdale, who the President has nominated to 

serve as a Commissioner of the U.S. Postal Rate Commission. 

As Senator Collins noted, your nomination comes to this Committee at the culmination of a series of hearings on the recommendations of the Commission on the U.S. Postal Service. And, 

as Senator Collins said, there is a bill being crafted and I certainly 

want to add my support to that bill. 

We heard from many people at the hearings, all of whom are interested in the continued stability and viability of the Postal Service. Achieving that goal will require the dedication of individuals 

such as yourself who will be called on to make tough decisions. 

Judging by your biographical information you submitted to the 

Committee, your career with the Postal Service provides you with 

the experience to do just that. 

One of the recommendations made by the Postal Commission and 

one that I expect will be in a postal reform bill will be to significantly strengthen the Postal Rate Commission. I am hopeful that 

if confirmed, and I am sure you will be, you will draw on your experience as a postmaster, postal supervisor, and letter carrier, especially when the Postal Rate Commission reviews product and 

operational matters. 

3

Another recommendation of the Postal Commission which also 

should be a part of the postal reform is to create a greater financial 

transparency within the Postal Service. As a retired postal manager, you understand the importance of timely financial information and I hope you concur that the flexibility being sought by the 

Postal Service to set rates demands that the Postal Rate Commission has access to on-time and current financial data. 

Mr. Tisdale, I believe you will bring a perspective to the regulatory board which is not represented, so that is important to all 

of us. 

Madam Chairman, I want to thank you again, and I look forward 

to our discussion with this nominee. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you very much, Senator. 

It now gives me great pleasure to call upon our colleague from 

the House side, Representative Johnson, to introduce the nominee. 

Thank you for taking the time to be here this morning. 

STATEMENT OF HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Ms. JOHNSON. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It is an 

honor and a pleasure to be with you today and I bring the warmest 

greetings to you and the Members of the Committee on Governmental Affairs from the House of Representatives and my constituents in the 30th Congressional District of Texas. 

It is my great honor and great pleasure to introduce Dawn Tisdale to the Senate Committee. This morning you are considering 

his nomination for the U.S. Postal Rate Commission and I am certainly appreciative. 

In my comments I would like to commend President Bush for 

nominating Mr. Tisdale to be a commissioner and I would like to 

acknowledge Senator Daschle’s recommendation to him for this 

outstanding nominee. The Senator recognizes that the nominee certainly has the knowledge and experience to take on one of the most 

challenging positions in the Executive Branch. And I applaud you, 

Senator Collins and Senator Akaka and all the Members of the 

Committee, for the wisdom and grace that you have shown considering Mr. Tisdale’s nomination. 

He not only has the qualifications to serve on the Postal Rate 

Commission. He also possesses the qualities needed in a commissioner. He is a retired postmaster. He was postmaster from 1989 

to 2000 in Smithville, Texas and he faithfully served. And prior to 

his tenure as postmaster he served as manager of employee relations in Waco, Texas, my hometown. And it might sound a little parochial to say this but he has a great reputation wherever he has 

served. He started as a postal delivery person and worked up the 

ranks and he spent a total of 35 years with the Postal Service. 

So I have a great deal of admiration for him because I have observed him over the years. He is a family man. He is a church 

man. He is a community man. He has a very quiet demeanor but 

he does not miss much that comes by. 

So I thank you so very much for the opportunity to be here this 

morning and I hope that he will be confirmed. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you very much, Congresswoman. I 

know that you have a very busy schedule today so if you would like 

4

1The biographical information and prehearing questions appear in the Appendix on pages 11 

and 15 respectively. 

to be excused at this point, that would certainly be fine with us. 

We do appreciate your strong endorsement of the nominee and 

your taking the time to introduce him this morning. Thank you. 

Mr. Tisdale has filed responses to a biographical and financial 

questionnaire, answered the prehearing questions submitted by the 

Committee, and has had his financial statements reviewed by the 

Office of Government Ethics. Without objection, this information 

will be made part of the hearing record, with the exception of the 

financial data, which are on file and available for public inspection 

in the Committee’s offices. 

Our Committee rules require that all witnesses at nomination 

hearings give their testimony under oath, so Mr. Tisdale, I would 

ask that you stand and raise your right hand so that I can administer the oath. 

[Oath administered.] 

Chairman COLLINS. Mr. Tisdale, I understand that you have a 

statement that you would like to deliver at this time and I would 

ask that you proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF DAWN A. TISDALE,1 OF TEXAS, TO BE 

COMMISSIONER, U.S. POSTAL RATE COMMISSION 

Mr. TISDALE. Thank you. First of all, I would like to thank you, 

Senator Collins and Senator Akaka, for allowing me this opportunity to come before you. I would further like to thank the President for his nomination and Senator Daschle for his support of my 

recommendation and the nomination. And, most of all, I would like 

to thank the Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson for being there from the 

very beginning and for always supporting this particular nomination. 

Just briefly I would like to recap some of my postal career. I was 

in the Navy from 1962 to 1966. Following that, within a couple of 

months of getting out of the Navy, I was called to work for the 

Postal Service and I began work as a letter carrier in Austin, 

Texas. I worked there as a letter carrier for about 14 years, got involved in the union and eventually became vice president of Local 

181 of the National Association of Letter Carriers in Austin, Texas. 

During that time I was also a part of two of the negotiating groups 

for local labor contracts with the union. 

Following that, I went into management and worked in delivery 

growth. In delivery growth we were interested at that point in convincing people that we should go to centralized delivery points, 

rather than to door-to-door delivery and that is a hard sell for a 

lot of people, but we managed to do it and did it successfully. 

I followed that up by working at one of the stations in Austin, 

the largest station there at the time, as a supervisor and actually 

reaped some of the benefits of some of the negotiations that I had 

gone through while I worked with delivery growth. 

I followed that by working with employee involvement as the 

Postal Service began to change the way it related to its employees 

and during that time we worked on showing labor and manageVerDate 0ct 09 2002 10:33 Jul 16, 2004 Jkt 094484 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\94484.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PHOGAN
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ment how to better deal with each other, how to do joint problemsolving, how to prioritize the problems that they jointly faced. 

I followed that by working in labor relations for a long time and 

moving on to alternative dispute resolutions. 

After that I worked in Waco as manager of employment and 

training and when that sectional center was closed I moved to the 

job as postmaster in Smithville. I stayed there from 1989 to 2000. 

In between those years I came back and worked in labor relations 

again in Austin and also spent some time working as a manager 

of distribution operations in the plant because I wanted to learn 

that operation, also. 

I retired in 2000 from Smithville as postmaster and enjoyed a 

very long and varied career with the Postal Service. 

Again I would like to thank you for the opportunity to answer 

your questions and at this time I would entertain whatever questions you have. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you for your statement. I will start 

my questioning this morning with the standard questions that we 

ask all nominees who come before our Committee. 

First, is there anything that you are aware of in your background 

which might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you have been nominated? 

Mr. TISDALE. Nothing at all. 

Chairman COLLINS. Second, do you know of anything personal or 

otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have 

been nominated? 

Mr. TISDALE. Nothing at all. 

Chairman COLLINS. And third, do you agree without reservation 

to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before 

any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed? 

Mr. TISDALE. Yes. 

Chairman COLLINS. We will now have a round of questions, limited to 6 minutes each. 

Mr. Tisdale, your experience gives you an insider’s perspective of 

the Postal Service that is of great interest to me as we seek to deal 

with many of the issues raised by the Presidential Commission. I 

noticed in your resume that you were the postmaster of Smithville, 

Texas and I was curious how big Smithville, Texas is? 

Mr. TISDALE. Smithville has about 3,900 people inside the city 

limits. There are about 10,000 in the area. 

Chairman COLLINS. It sounded like a smaller community to me, 

typical of the many rural communities that dot the State of Maine. 

As you know, one of the issues that the Presidential Commission 

felt strongly about is that the Postal Service needs to ‘‘constructively address the fact that many of our Nation’s post offices are 

no longer necessary to the fulfillment of the universal service obligation.’’

I think all of us recognize that there are times when consolidation can take place but I also know that those post offices are often 

essential to elderly people and also play a role as being the center 

of the community in a lot of small towns. 

The Commission suggested that existing laws limiting the Postal 

Service’s ability to close post offices should be repealed. Given your 

6

many years of experience, including as a postmaster in a small 

community, could you comment on whether you believe the current 

process for closing or consolidating post offices works well? And 

how do we balance the need to provide universal service with the 

goal of making the Postal Service more efficient? 

Mr. TISDALE. I think that first of all I would say we probably 

need to study that issue a little more. But having been in a small 

town and watched the people in the communities around Smithville 

and how they respond to the Postal Service, I have to agree that 

the post offices in those small communities are very vital. They not 

only serve as a focal point for the community but they give the 

community an identity. To have that post office there and their 

own zip code just means a lot to those people. 

I think during the time that I was in Smithville there were two 

offices between Smithville and the next larger town over, which 

was La Grange, that were closed and I remember the people coming in and complaining about those offices being closed. Even 

though after about a year or so they adjusted to it, they really did 

not want those offices closed. 

The same services were available and it was within a short drive 

for them, 10 miles or so, and I realize in the city we may drive 5 

or 10 miles without thinking about it, but when you are in a rural 

community and, as you said, if it is an elderly person or a person 

with some type of handicap, then going 10 miles to the post office 

presents a real problem. But the people did adjust and they seemed 

to accept it after a period of time. But I do believe that before we 

close any small office we need to go to that community and talk 

to the people there and certainly get their input and that should 

be a consideration before that happens. 

Chairman COLLINS. Virtually every witness who has come before 

this Committee has testified that the current rate-making process 

before the Commission is far too lengthy and litigious. The Commission has recommended a far more streamlined process that 

would give the Postal Service the ability to establish its rates within a cap and then have an after-the-fact review that would be 

available if a complaint was filed. 

There are some who believe that the current process, while too 

long and while too litigious, works well to surface all of the issues 

and ensure that the best information is available. Do you have any 

thoughts on the rate-making process? And do you have an opinion 

in particular about the issue of having an after-the-fact review of 

rates? 

Mr. TISDALE. I think an after-the-fact review of the rate-setting 

process would be very bad. The Postal Service goes through a lot 

of trouble making sure that people are aware of rates and changing 

the rates, both in stamp machines and other places, and to have 

an after-the-fact review that goes back and possibly changes the 

rates again I think would really be bad for the agency. 

I think that to speed up the process, the current process, some 

of the time limits might be reset so that it does not take quite as 

long, but some of the other issues I would reserve a comment on 

until I was actually there and had a chance to look at that a little 

closer. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Akaka. 

7

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. 

Mr. Tisdale, I was very impressed by the introduction of the congresswoman, which was personal and warm about her admiration 

for you. I was also impressed by the experience you have had in 

the Postal Service. I guess anybody who is in it from being a letter 

carrier is from the bottom up here. You have had that experience, 

and you have served the people of Texas very well as a letter carrier, postal supervisor, and postmaster. So you can tell by the comments we have made that we are looking at your experience to help 

the Postal Service. 

I appreciated the detailed explanation of your long career with 

the Postal Service. I am saying this because my brother was in the 

Postal Service for more than 40 years and he started as a letter 

carrier. So I have feelings about the Postal Service. 

But given your experience with alternative dispute resolution, 

which is called ADR, how would you incorporate more ADR into 

the employee grievance process? 

Mr. TISDALE. I do not believe that all of the unions that work 

with the Postal Service are currently using alternative dispute resolution and I think the best thing to do at this point—I know 

NALC is heavily involved and I believe the mail handlers are involved but I do not think the APWU is involved. I would certainly 

want to encourage them to become involved and to use the alternative dispute resolution. I think the success that the NALC has 

shown in that process should be held up as a model for APWU and 

maybe they would see the light. 

Senator AKAKA. As a retired postmaster you have had opportunities to be involved with the closing of post offices. As Senator Collins noted, these facilities may be the only contact many citizens 

have with the Federal Government. In your comments to her, you 

discuss post office closings and the need to involve citizens. How 

would you do this? 

Mr. TISDALE. I would go to the community and set up a meeting 

with the community and talk to them about it, allow them to come 

in and express their feelings concerning the closing and the availability of the facilities. 

Senator AKAKA. I was especially pleased that the President’s 

Commission rejected privatizing the Postal Service. Would you 

share with us your views on privatizing the U.S. Postal Service? 

Mr. TISDALE. I think the U.S. Postal Service does a fantastic job 

and the Postal Service goes to places and delivers mail to people 

that are not reached by private enterprise at this point. If you look 

at some of the places that people like UPS do not go for reasons 

of—well, I guess the reasons are their own but the Postal Service 

does, then it is clearly a good reason for not privatizing it. I think 

private enterprise would cut out a number of services that the 

Postal Service offers as a service to the general public and I think 

that access to the services would be severely limited under private 

enterprise. 

Senator AKAKA. Madam Chairman, let me ask my final question. 

Mr. Tisdale, do you believe that the PRC should have a stronger 

role in establishing performance standards for postal products and 

services and for monitoring the Postal Service’s results in meeting 

these standards? 

8

Mr. TISDALE. I think the Postal Service already has in place internal monitoring processes and that those should be the Postal 

Service’s concern. I think as an oversight committee, the PRC 

should take a look at it from time to time but basically I think the 

agency itself needs to monitor that. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Senator. Senator Lautenberg. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LAUTENBERG 

Senator LAUTENBERG. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

This is an important post that has to be filled and I think we 

have a really good candidate and I congratulate you, Mr. Tisdale, 

because I would say that in these days of partisanship that if your 

cause is sponsored by Congresswoman Johnson and Senator Tom 

Daschle and can still be nominated by President Bush, you have 

to be pretty good. I would say that covers a fair number of bases. 

So we are pleased to see you here. I like your experience. I think 

that having been postmaster in such a small town, where I am 

sure you knew most, if not all, of the people who you served, I 

think that is a particularly good way to view things because it attaches faces and feelings and concerns when you are in that small 

town situation. You get to kind of feel the flesh and it is a very 

important thing, I suppose, to the experience that one typically 

sees in a larger city where people become relatively faceless. So I 

think that is going to be a very good background for you to call 

upon as you try to resolve some of the difficult decisions that you 

are going to be making with the Postal Regulatory Board, assuming that that gets to be the case. 

How firmly do you support this enormous expansion of powers to 

a three-person board? Do you think that is a good idea, to be able 

to really understand what the problems are not just of the addressee but the employee and the enormous role that the post office 

has to bringing our country together? It precedes any of the nowsophisticated communication networks. People judge a lot about 

government when they see how the mail department, how the postman himself works. 

So what do you think about this expansion of powers into this 

Postal Regulatory Board? 

Mr. TISDALE. I think the expansion of the authorities, it is probably a good thing in many areas. I tend to question whether or not 

three people unattached to the agency could really have the type 

of oversight that they would need or the real understanding of the 

agency that they would need in order to have that expanded authority. 

I would hope that in the interim the Postal Rate Commission as 

it presently exists would be given some of that expanded authority 

and that a smooth transition would be able to be had. 

Senator LAUTENBERG. How about rate-setting? Should the Board 

of Governors continue to have a role in postage rate-setting? What 

kind of changes would you think would be appropriate for the ratesetting process? 

Mr. TISDALE. For the rate-setting process I think the most immediate role would probably be to shorten the process, to maybe 

shorten some of the time limits that are involved at present. While 

9

I do not think it is a good idea to have an after-the-fact review of 

the rates, I do think it is a good idea to have the Postal Service 

have more autonomy in setting rates. 

Senator LAUTENBERG. Madam Chairman, I think we have an excellent candidate. I hope that we will be able to present a clear picture of all of the responsibilities that are going to evolve with the 

Postal Regulatory Board and would tell you, Mr. Tisdale, that it 

would be a huge job. This is not going to be a walk in the park, 

as you probably know. Maybe even a walk on the toughest route 

that you have ever walked. Thank you very much. 

Mr. TISDALE. I would just comment that I have been involved in 

change in the Postal Service on a number of issues and I do understand the agency and the dynamics within the agency when you 

are talking about changing something that has gone on for years. 

Senator LAUTENBERG. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. 

Mr. Tisdale, I want to thank you for appearing before the Committee today. I certainly agree with my colleagues that you are certainly worthy of confirmation and I am pleased to support your 

nomination for this very important position at a time of tremendous transition for the Postal Service. 

Without objection, the record will be kept open until 5 p.m. today 

for the submission of any additional written questions or statements for the record. 

Thank you very much for appearing today and this hearing is 

now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 10:35 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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