U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

63–316 CC WASHINGTON : 2000

THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN EAST TIMOR

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON

INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS AND HUMAN RIGHTS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON

INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

Thursday, September 30, 1999

Serial No. 106–84

Printed for the use of the Committee on International Relations

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York, Chairman

WILLIAM F. GOODLING, Pennsylvania

JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa

HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois

DOUG BEREUTER, Nebraska

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey

DAN BURTON, Indiana

ELTON GALLEGLY, California

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida

CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina

DANA ROHRABACHER, California

DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California

PETER T. KING, New York

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio

MARSHALL ‘‘MARK’’ SANFORD, South

Carolina

MATT SALMON, Arizona

AMO HOUGHTON, New York

TOM CAMPBELL, California

JOHN M. MCHUGH, New York

KEVIN BRADY, Texas

RICHARD BURR, North Carolina

PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio

GEORGE P. RADANOVICH, California

JOHN COOKSEY, Louisiana

THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado

SAM GEJDENSON, Connecticut

TOM LANTOS, California

HOWARD L. BERMAN, California

GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York

ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American

Samoa

MATTHEW G. MARTINEZ, California

DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey

ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio

CYNTHIA A. MCKINNEY, Georgia

ALCEE L. HASTINGS, Florida

PAT DANNER, Missouri

EARL F. HILLIARD, Alabama

BRAD SHERMAN, California

ROBERT WEXLER, Florida

STEVEN R. ROTHMAN, New Jersey

JIM DAVIS, Florida

EARL POMEROY, North Dakota

WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York

BARBARA LEE, California

JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York

JOSEPH M. HOEFFEL, Pennsylvania

RICHARD J. GARON, Chief of Staff

KATHLEEN BERTELSEN MOAZED, Democratic Chief of Staff

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS AND HUMAN RIGHTS

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman

WILLIAM F. GOODLING, Pennsylvania

HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois

DAN BURTON, Indiana

CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina

PETER T. KING, New York

MATT SALMON, Arizona

THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado

CYNTHIA A. MCKINNEY, Georgia

ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American

Samoa

EARL F. HILLIARD, Alabama

BRAD SHERMAN, California

WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York

GROVER JOSEPH REES, Subcommittee Staff Director

DOUGLAS C. ANDERSON, Counsel

GARY STEPHEN COX, Democratic Staff Director

NICOLLE A. SESTRIC, Staff Associate

(III)

C O N T E N T S

WITNESSES

Page

Hon. Harold Hongiu Koh, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Democracy, Human

Rights, and Labor, U.S. Department of State .................................................... 11

Hon. Julia Taft, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and

Migration, U.S. Department of State ................................................................. 17

Mr. Xanana Gusmao, President, National Council of Timorese Resistance ....... 32

Mr. Jose Ramos-Horta, 1996 Nobel Peace Prize Winner, Vice President, National Council of Timorese Resistance ................................................................ 34

Mr. Allan Nairn, Journalist, former detainee in East Timor .............................. 44

Mr. Arnold S. Kohen, Biographer of Bishop Carlos Ximenes Belo ...................... 55

Mr. T. Kumar, Advocacy Director, Amnesty International, U.S.A ...................... 40

Ms. Emilia Peres, escapee of East Timor .............................................................. 50

APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:

Hon. Christopher H. Smith, a Representative in Congress from the State

of New Jersey, Chairman, Subcommittee on International Operations and

Human Rights ...................................................................................................... 74

Ms. Julia V. Taft ...................................................................................................... 77

Mr. Arnold S. Kohen ................................................................................................ 81

Mr. T. Kumar ........................................................................................................... 84

Ms. Emilia Perse ...................................................................................................... 96

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL:

Statement by U.S. Defense Secretary William S. Cohen ..................................... 97

Statement by Spokesman James B. Foley, U.S. Department of State ................ 98

Statement from the Multinational Humanitarian Mission .................................. 99

The Washington Post, ‘‘Another Messy Apartment,’’ September 10, 1999 .......... 101

The Tablet, ‘‘Going Home with Bishop Belo,’’ by Arnold Kohen, October 23,

1999 ....................................................................................................................... 102

U.S. News and World Report, ‘‘A Plea for Peace From Someone Near Hell,’’

September 27, 1999 .............................................................................................. 103

(1)

THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN EAST TIMOR

Thursday, September 30, 1999

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL

OPERATIONS AND HUMAN RIGHTS,

Committee on International Relations,

WASHINGTON, D.C.

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:30 p.m., in

room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Christopher H. Smith

(Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. SMITH. Today’s hearing is about the continuing humanitarian and human rights crisis in East Timor, and about the past,

present, and future of U.S. policy toward that country. I am particularly pleased that one of our witnesses will be East Timorese

independence leader, Xanana Gusmao, who I first met in Cipinang

Prison in May of last year.

We will also hear from the State Department, from our two distinguished witnesses who will be the lead-off panel, and from Nobel

Peace Prize winner, Jose Ramos-Horta, and from several other distinguished experts and human rights advocates.

When I visited Indonesia about 11⁄2 years ago, just after the fall

of the Suharto Regime, I hoped not only that democracy would

come to Indonesia, but also that the people of East Timor would

finally get the chance to exercise their right of self-determination.

But I did not dream this exercise would occur so soon. Now that

the referendum in East Timor is history and the people have spoken, it should be a time for congratulations and celebration.

Instead, however, the post-election period has become a time of

mass killings, forced relocations, and other grave human rights violations. Although these atrocities were ostensibly committed by

anti-independence East Timorese militias, it is clear that they were

assisted and probably directed by important elements in the Indonesian military.

Nobody knows how high the chain of complicity extends into the

Indonesian military command, and nobody knows, as yet, how

many thousands of people have been killed. Even now, although

the international peacekeeping force is doing great work in Dili and

a few other locations in East Timor, in other places it appears that

the brutal campaign of destruction carried out by the militias and

their Indonesian military sponsors continues.

The arrest this week in East Timor of a number of KOPASSUS

soldiers is a clear indication of this. I have to wonder whether any

of these killers were trained by our Government. I hope that Secretary of Defense Cohen will send a strong message during his visit

2

that there will be no more military training, no more assistance of

the military kind, and no other nonhumanitarian assistance to the

Government of Indonesia until the perpetrators of these atrocities,

however high-ranking they may be, are held accountable.

In the meantime, the United States must provide whatever assistance is necessary to get the peacekeeping force in full and immediate control of the entirety of East Timor. Specifically, the Administration has requested $140 million for a contribution to peacekeeping in East Timor.

I understand this amount will be fully off-set by reductions in

various nonhumanitarian accounts. Although this request has come

in subsequent to both the House and Senate passage of the Foreign

Relations Authorization Act for fiscal year 2000, I will work to get

it included the conference report, and I urge my colleagues on the

Appropriations Committee to provide the necessary appropriations.

We also need to step up humanitarian assistance to prevent people who are still hiding in the hills, as well as those who have returned to their burned-out homes, from dying of starvation and disease.

Finally, international humanitarian organizations, including the

U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees must be given immediate

and complete access to the refugees in West Timor. There are, as

you know, credible reports that people are being murdered in these

camps by the same militias and the same Indonesian soldiers who

were murdering them a few days ago in East Timor, and that

many of the refugees may be forced to relocate in other parts of Indonesia.

We must insist that a transparent and secure process be set up

immediately to find out how many of these refugees wish to return

to East Timor and to assist them in returning. I understand there

are also East Timorese living in Jakarta and elsewhere in Indonesia who are in grave danger.

I hope the United States will assist in arrangements for the immediate evacuation of these people. It may be possible to find temporary asylum for them in safe countries in the Asia-Pacific region.

If not, we should offer them a safe haven in the United States until

it becomes feasible for them to return to East Timor. Every day

these urgent measures are delayed, more people will die. So, our

immediate emphasis must be on addressing these elements of the

current humanitarian crisis.

I hope, however, that our witnesses will speak not only to the immediate present, but also to the past, and to the future. First, we

must analyze and learn from the mistakes we have made, particularly in our relationship with the Indonesian military. We armed

them, trained them, conducted joint exercises with them, even gave

them honors and awards, on the theory that this would make them

less likely to violate the internationally recognized and God-given

human rights of their own people and of the people of the captive

nation of East Timor.

It now seems clear that we were wrong. The recent suspension

of U.S.-Indonesian military-to-military relationship is a positive

step. An even more positive step would be for Congress to enact,

and the President to sign, legislation which would set forth clearly

the conditions on which that suspension will either continue or be

3

lifted, including full compliance with Indonesia’s international

agreements regarding East Timor, immediate release of the refugees in West Timor, top-to-bottom reform of the military, and accountability for those who have committed human rights violations.

The Feingold-Helms bill, which should soon pass the Senate, contains all of these provisions, and I am a co-sponsor of the companion House bill introduced by Congressman Pat Kennedy, H.R.

2895. I promise to work for the passage of this legislation in the

House, and I urge the Administration to endorse it and to work for

it as well.

As for the future, we must discuss how to rebuild East Timor

and to set the new country on the road to self-sufficiency. One

benchmark for how much help we should give East Timor could be

the amount of our past assistance, including bilateral aid, as well

as World Bank and IMF money, that contributed directly or indirectly to suppression and then destruction in East Timor.

Finally, I want to emphasize that Indonesia is not the enemy. Individual murderers and thugs, and whatever structures within the

military and the Government of Indonesia allowed them to remain

and prosper, are the enemy. Whatever his weaknesses, President

B.J. Habibie deserves credit for agreeing to the referendum in the

first place.

I am also pleased that Megawati Sukarnoputri, who will probably be Indonesia’s next President, has issued strong statements

accepting the results of the referendum and condemning the violence. So, it is important to make clear that the United States

should look forward to a continued friendly relationship with the

Indonesian people, and even the Indonesian Government, but only

on the clear conditions that the killing must stop, the killers must

be brought to justice, and the system must be reformed to ensure

that nothing of this sort ever happens again.

I would like to yield to my good friend, Cynthia McKinney, the

Ranking Member of this Subcommittee, for any opening comments

she might have.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Smith appears in the appendix.]

Ms. MCKINNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to open by personally thanking you for your leadership and concern about this human rights tragedy that has unfolded in East Timor. I would also like to thank my colleague, Congressman Patrick Kennedy, who has initiated several legislative

measures on East Timor. I am a very proud co-sponsor of them all.

Mr. Chairman, I would also like to recognize the courage of

Xanana Gusmao, Jose Ramos-Horta, and Allan Nairn who have all

stood up against the might of the Indonesian military. Through

their ongoing courage, they have revealed the full horrors of Indonesia’s illegal occupation of East Timor. They have told the world

of mass killings, widespread rape, and the systematic destruction

of democracy in East Timor.

These brave men here today are the voice of the voiceless. Their

heroic qualities and personal sacrifice does not go unnoticed. We

are honored to be in their presence.

Mr. Chairman, the U.S. Government has blood on its hands as

a result of our dealings with the Indonesian military over in East

Timor.

4

Without a shadow of a doubt, the recent events in East Timor,

are like the human rights disasters which unfolded in Rwanda in

1994, and then Srebrenica in 1995. Mr. Chairman, under your

leadership, this Committee has now conducted two hearings into

these great tragedies. We have heard chilling evidence against the

United Nations, accusing it of deliberately surrendering the peoples

of Rwanda and Srebrenica to almost certain death.

Despite so much suffering caused by cowardness, callous indifference, and gross levels of negligence. The world appears to have

learned nothing. We are gathered here once more to hear allegations that the world has failed to confront mass killing and other

grave human rights abuses. This time, the place is East Timor.

What is also incredible is that the world has stood idly by for 25

years and allowed Indonesian security forces to murder an estimated 200,000 East Timorese.

Mr. Chairman, the United States has much to be ashamed of.

Our foreign policy toward Indonesia, and ultimately East Timor, is

simply unconscionable. The American people deserve to know the

truth about our Government’s complicity in Indonesian’s subjugation of the people of East Timor. Indonesia was decided to be of

strategic U.S. economic and military interest because of its location

near vital sea lanes used by U.S. military and commercial fleets.

The world now knows that President Gerald Ford and his former

Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, surrendered East Timor to the

Suharto regime. Claiming that intervention was necessary to restore peace and security to East Timor, Indonesia invaded on December 7, 1975, 1 day after President Ford and Secretary of State

Henry Kissinger departed from a Summit meeting in Jakarta.

Mr. Chairman, that action was an explicit green light for Indonesia to invade East Timor. For 25 years, the U.S. Government has

chosen to ignore Indonesia’s ongoing crimes. We have turned our

backs on international law. We have ignored the United Nations’

instruments detailing the collective laws of nations on fundamental

human rights, the 1948 Declaration of Human Right, the 1948

Genocide Convention, and associated protocols, and the more recent Torture Convention.

Worse still, we have been directly involved in the crimes committed in East Timor by the Indonesian military. We trained the

notorious KOPASSUS, the dreaded Indonesian special forces at the

School of the Americas in my own home State of Georgia, and by

special American forces on-the-ground in Indonesia. In light of the

extensive evidence confirming that Indonesian military forces were

murdering and committing grave crimes in East Timor, Congress

voted in 1992 to cut military aid to Indonesia.

Despite this vote, the Department of Defense used another program to maintain its support to Indonesian military. We have

every indication that the KOPASSUS is still operating in East

Timor, even as we hold these hearings. Mr. Chairman, what makes

the recent outbreak of violence and killings in East Timor more

egregious, is that once again we knew it was going to happen.

Clearly, Indonesian military forces were preparing the militia to

attack the courageous citizens of East Timor who chose independence, despite the lurking and ever-present militia. The U.N.’s decision to insist upon waiting for the Indonesian Government to invite

5

the international community into East Timor to stop the murderous campaign it was itself directing was in fact an explicit invitation for Indonesia to carry out a scorched dearth policy.

What can we say as Members of Congress to the people of East

Timor? No amounts of apologies from the U.S. Government can resurrect the 200,000 victims of genocide. No apology can ever make

up for our culpability in the demise of personal freedom in East

Timor, freedom that every American takes for granted on a daily

basis.

Let it be known that there are those of us in Congress who are

working for a responsible arms transfer code of conduct to prevent

the transfer of arms to dictatorial regimes. There are those of us

who want to hold the Department of Defense accountable when

they find loopholes to bypass the wishes of the American people.

There are those of us in Congress who are calling for the creation

of an international criminal court. Ms. Mary Robinson, the United

Nations Commissioner for Human Rights, has called upon the U.N.

to initiate a War Crimes Tribunal to investigate the gross violations of human rights law in East Timor. I support her call.

The United States cannot continue to hope to command respect

in the world where, on one hand, we demand that all nations to

help us to prosecute those persons or regimes responsible for bombing our embassies, attacking our aircraft, or otherwise harming our

National interests, while we continue to support dictators or regimes guilty of committing genocide and crimes against humanity

against innocent peoples.

The mass murder, the torturer, the ethnic cleanser are enemies

of all mankind and they are repugnant to civilized society. They

can never be our allies or our friends. When we knowingly aid and

abet them to commit their vile crimes, we become as guilty as they,

and we should stand condemned.

Mr. Chairman, we were once a great force in the world, known

for our generosity and courage in the face of adversity. In two

World Wars, we were a leader in their fight to preserve democracy

and ensure that the world was not consumed by evil.

Today, we are fighting to maintain our reputation as a world

leader. Many believe we have lost our moral compass. East Timor

is another test for us. How we conduct ourselves there will be a

good indicator on whether or not we have the ability or the intention to meet our legal and moral obligations as a member and leader of the world community.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The prepared statement of Ms. McKinney appears in the appendix.]

Mr. SMITH. Ms. McKinney, thank you for your very powerful and

comprehensive statement.

The Chair recognizes the Chairman of the Full Committee, Mr.

Gilman.

Chairman GILMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to commend our distinguished Chairman of our Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights, the

gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Smith, and Ranking Minority

Member, Ms. McKinney, for holding this very important and relVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
6

evant hearing today regarding the humanitarian crisis in East

Timor.

I want to take this opportunity to welcome our two distinguished

panelists who are before us right now, the Honorable Harold Koh,

our Assistant Secretary for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor

in the State Department; and the Honorable Julia Taft, the Assistant Secretary for Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration,

who is no stranger to this Committee.

We thank both of you for being here today. I am still troubled,

as my colleagues are, by the situation in East Timor. Although the

first elements of a multinational force, led by our friends, the Australians, and supported by some American troops, have landed on

the island.

There are still many challenges ahead. The extent of these challenges is only now becoming known. First, the Government of Indonesia must abide by its commitment to respect the results of the

August 30th referendum and the rights of the East Timorese to a

peaceful transition to independence. President Habibie’s comments,

although tragically late, ‘‘Indonesia must honor and accept that

choice.’’

It is an important step. It is hoped that his words will be fulfilled

by his deeds. Accordingly, the Indonesian parliament must ratify

the popular decision of the people of East Timor at an early date

and set East Timor on its course toward independence.

Second, the Indonesian military, which participated in the violence, and aided and abetted the militias, should fully withdraw

from East Timor. This will allow refugees and displaced persons to

return home from West Timor and elsewhere confident of their

safety.

It will also reduce the likelihood of a class with a multinational

force. We have been informed that hundreds of thousands of East

Timorese have been displaced under the gun and moved to West

Timor.

Third, I urge the international community to investigate the

human rights abuses and the atrocities which occurred in the aftermath of the elections. We call upon the Government of Indonesia

to hold fully accountable those responsible for the reprehensible

acts of violence. We need to have an international criminal tribunal

to begin an investigation into what is and what has taken place.

Mr. Chairman, finally in the light of these devastating events,

the Administration must reevaluate its military relationship with

the Indonesian armed forces. The Pentagon should conduct a fullscale review of its military-to-military relationship with Jakarta,

including the effectiveness of the IMET Program and joint training

and exercises and our arms sales.

The Pentagon should not reinstitute any aspect of the military

relationship without full consultation with the Congress. Earlier

this week, the House passed our resolution, H.R. 292, and sent it

to the Congress regarding the present situation in East Timor.

Due to the situation on the ground, we need to consider further

legislative initiatives to make certain that our Nation is doing all

that it can to stop the killing and end the humanitarian crisis. If

the Administration does not take strong measures, there is bipartisan Congressional support for suspending multilateral and bilatVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00009 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
7

eral economic and military assistance until the following conditions

are met:

that the refugees can safely return to their homes, that terrorizing and murder of innocent civilians and targeting of local religious leaders have ceased, that the militias in both East and West

Timor have been disarmed and their leaders prosecuted, and the

independence of East Timor becomes a reality.

In addition, we need full cooperation from the Indonesian Government for an international criminal tribunal. We look forward to

hearing from our distinguished witnesses today. Our friends from

East Timor have fought so courageously with little but their cause

to sustain them.

They have lost family and friends. We hope their suffering will

soon end. While our Nation and the world community has been

slow to respond to their calls for help throughout the years, we

must not lose sight of all that they have accomplished for future

generations of East Timorese.

In addition, that small nation of East Timor, about the size of

Israel in the vast Pacific Ocean, has given hope beyond measure to

those in similar circumstances who are continuing to struggle for

their own freedom. Let us not forget that when they take their seat

at the U.N.

We look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. Again, I

thank our Chairman for conducting this hearing.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Gilman. Thank you for all

your good work you have done for many years on East Timor. You

certainly have been a real leader.

I would like to recognize the gentleman from American Samoa,

Mr. Faleomavaega.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to personally offer my welcome to Secretary Taft and Secretary Koh for making available their time to come and testify before this Committee. Mr. Chairman, I cannot thank you enough for

your leadership over the years in conducting hearings affecting

human rights violations throughout the world. Specifically, we

have held hearings on East Timor for the past 3 or 4 years on this

very issue of human rights violations.

The atrocities that the Indonesian military have committed

against the people of East Timor are certainly unwarranted. I want

to say, Mr. Chairman, that I fully associate myself with the statements made earlier by my colleague and good friend, the Ranking

Member of our Subcommittee, the gentle lady from Georgia.

Given this sense of perspective of history, I know that perhaps

we cannot go back and undo the sins of the past, but I think we

have to remember quite clearly that I can well remember what the

poet Santayana once said, that those who do not remember the

past are condemned to repeat their mistakes. The sad legacy that

we can associate with what is going on with East Timor is the fact

that the atrocities did not happen just 2 or 3 years ago.

This has been going on for 25 years. I have to say that the full

responsibility lies with the international community, whether it be

a lack of will, whether it be a lack of political fortitude or whatever.

They were just as much a part of the complicity, given the fact that

until this day, the world community never sanctioned Indonesia’s

8

military, which killed 200,000 East Timorese. Even our own country never officially sanctioned the Indonesian Government for this

military takeover that was done under the auspices of these two

dictators, Sukarno and Suharto.

Mr. Chairman, one of the things that I find quite interesting that

the media has never publicized, is why so much interest in East

Timor, not only by the Indonesian Government, but even by some

of our friendly Western countries? It is because of the oil reserves.

Billions of dollars’ worth of oil there perhaps contributed to the

reluctance of friendly Western nation to interfere with Indonesia

because of the vast amount of resources and corporate interests in

this area in East Timor. I say this, Mr. Chairman, with a real

sense of congratulations. I want to congratulate Mr. Horta and Mr.

Gusmao, and the people of East Timor, that they have finally, after

25 years of struggle, been given an international referendum on

independence, where they have spoken, despite all of the intimidation by the Indonesian militia.

Over 78 percent of Timorese voted in favor of independence. I am

so happy for them. I want to also say for the record, Mr. Chairman,

I have the fondest love and affection for the good people of Indonesia, but it is the government policies under the leadership of

these dictators that has caused so much misery and the sad legacy

that we now have come to evidence with East Timor.

I have said it before, Mr. Chairman, and I am going to say it

again. I want to thank the American people, our fellow Americans

of Portuguese ancestry and the country of Portugal itself, for bringing this issue to the forefront for the past 25 years until finally it

is evident that people of East Timor they want to be independent.

There is another area too, Mr. Chairman, that I want to discuss.

You cannot talk about East Timor, while at the same time ignoring

the atrocities, the massacres, and the brutality of the Indonesian

army that is currently being targeted against the people of West

Papua New Guinea. We cannot ignore that.

I Humbly submit, Mr. Chairman, that this is going to be the next

chapter to unfold in the coming years. Mr. Chairman, this is not

to suggest, as stated by friendly leaders from some of the Western

countries, that, we should be afraid that this will lead to Balkanization of Indonesian.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Chairman, West Papua New Guinea was also taken over by the Indonesian military at the cost of

over 100,000 West Papua New Guineas who so far have died, disappeared, massacred the same way, the brutality of the Indonesian

military had taken against the people of East Timor.

Why the interest in West Papua New Guinea? I will tell you, Mr.

Chairman. The largest gold mine and copper operations now currently going on in West Papua New Guinea are owned by Western

nations. Freeport-McMoran company from the United States, alone

with businesses from Australia and, the United Kingdom, have

vast economic and corporate interests in this area at the expense

of the environment and the lives and the welfare of the Papuan

people. Let us not talk about Balkanization. It has been proven

that East Timor and West Papua New Guinea had no relationship

whatsoever with the government of Indonesia. Given the fact that

9

these were former colonies and now is it OK for another country

to colonize another colony? This is ridiculous, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, this is not an Asian issue, but an issue of humanity. These are human beings. This is not just about East Timorese

or West Papua New Guineans people of a darker complexion, who

can be ignored because this is not Kosovo, because our interests

primarily rest in Europe.

Mr. Chairman, if that is the policy of our Administration and

this Government, then I say shame on America. Mr. Chairman,

again, I want to thank you. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Faleomavaega. Mr. Sherman.

Mr. SHERMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to applaud the speakers that have gone before. They have

covered much of the ground that I would like to cover. They covered it very well. I would like to add very little. East Timor was

in the news nationally and internationally in the mid–1970’s when

it was conquered.

It was then swept off the front pages. A few people here in this

House, a few people around the United States and around the

world kept the flame alive. We owe a debt of gratitude to the Nobel

Committee, to people here in the United States, but especially to

the courage of the East Timorese themselves, who have endured for

25 years in a cause that so many thought was hopeless and that

may very well have turned out to have been hopeless had it not

been for a weakness in the dictatorial regime of Indonesia caused

by other factors.

I think we should commend the Government of Australia for

sending, I believe it is, 8,000 of its people into this effort. Proportionately, that is like the United States sending over 100,000 of our

men and women into harm’s way. At the same time, we should

show concern for the fact that Japan has once again chosen not to

contribute in any significant way to peacekeeping efforts. When

Japan did not contribute significantly to Kosovo, they said, that is

Europe. This is the Asia-Pacific region and it is time for Japan not

to regard its mistakes and even crimes of the first half of this Century as an excuse for not doing its part in the second part of the

Century.

Finally, we need to look forward to East Timor acquiring peace

and prosperity. Toward that end, we have to be willing to extend

aid. One thing that may be just as important would be to reallocate

the textile quota, to reduce the textile quota for Indonesia and to

allocate some of that textile quota to East Timor.

I look forward to the day when we see imports from East Timor

here in the United States. Perhaps starting with textiles and

maybe someday after that it will be computers and higher priced

items.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Sherman.

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr. Crowley.

Mr. CROWLEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I, too, will be brief. I want to thank you for holding this important hearing on the humanitarian crisis in East Timor. The situaVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
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tion in East Timor deteriorated so rapidly that the international

community, and I am going to be giving the benefit of the doubt

here, was caught off-guard, despite previous warnings of possible

violence by pro-Indonesian militia, after the historic referendum.

I am pleased and encouraged that the U.N. Security Council approved the resolution to deploy a multinational force to East Timor,

and that half of the 8,000 troops for the Australian-led multinational force are currently on the ground in East Timor. This

sorely needed action by the U.N. will provide the security and hope

that East Timor needs to build itself into an independent nation.

However, food and medical care remains scarce. Hundreds of

thousands of East Timorese are in hiding or refugees detained in

West Timor. Despite the grim reminders of violence that permeated

the area, from every indication I have read, things are looking a

bit brighter.

On Tuesday, the United Nations agreed to form a Commission of

Inquiry, despite the objections of the Indonesian Government to investigate abuses committed by departing troops and militia members in retaliation for the vote for independence in East Timor. I

am hopeful that a full War Crimes Tribunal will be conveyed as

soon as possible and that indictments will be handed down.

Mr. Chairman, despite this positive news, the situation in East

Timor is volatile and will remain so for some time. I am grateful

to you for calling this open hearing so that Members of this Committee can better understand the challenges ahead for East Timor.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Crowley.

The gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Delahunt.

Mr. DELAHUNT. I think everything has been said that I would

want to say. I particularly want to acknowledge the leadership of

the gentleman from American Samoa. He has been speaking to this

issue for a very long period of time. I think that we could feel his

passion, his commitment, and how conversant he is with this issue.

I would also pause just to reflect for a moment on the militaryto-military relationship. Recently, I think it was back in July 1998

when Assistant Secretary of Defense, Mr. Kramer, argued that,

and I am quoting from his appearance before this Subcommittee,

that ‘‘By helping professionalize the Indonesian armed forces, we

can help reduce human rights abuses.’’

That certainly is a policy that has failed and failed miserably. It

is time that this Committee and this Congress revisit the militaryto-military relationships and the training of foreign troops by our

Department of Defense.

I yield back.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Delahunt.

I would like to welcome our very distinguished panel, panel No.

1, from the Administration. The Honorable Harold Koh was appointed Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights,

and Labor in 1998. Before that appointment, Mr. Koh served both

as professor of international law and as the Director of the Center

for International Human Rights at Yale Law School.

This Subcommittee has had a very good relationship with him in

that former job, as well as the current job that he occupies. Assistant Secretary Koh earned both his B.A. and law degrees from HarVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
11

vard University. He has authored numerous articles on international law and human rights.

Second, the Honorable Julia Taft has served as Assistant Secretary of the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration since

November 1997. Before becoming Assistant Secretary, Ms. Taft was

President and CEO of Inter Action, again, another organization

that this Subcommittee and many of us have had a lot of cooperation with and have worked very closely with.

Her involvement with refugee issues began in 1975 when President Ford named her Director of the Interagency Task Force for

Indo-China Refugees. The Resettlement Program, which Ms. Taft

directed, helped to bring more than 130,000 Indo-Chinese refugees

into the United States.

Thank you for being here. Secretary Koh, if you could begin.

STATEMENT OF HON. HAROLD HONGJU KOH, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU OF DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND

LABOR, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

Mr. KOH. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee,

thank you for this invitation to testify today about the human

rights and humanitarian emergency in East Timor.

I have a written statement, with your permission, I would submit

for the record and summarize here.

Mr. SMITH. Without objection, your full statement will be made

a part of the record.

Mr. KOH. Thank you. As Secretary Albright has said, the continuing humanitarian crisis in East Timor and the growing tragedy

of East Timorese refugees in West Timor are of acute concern.

They demand our attention and, I might add, that of anyone in the

world committed to democracy and human rights.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for holding this hearing at this critical

moment. I commend this Committee for its leadership role in passing Tuesday a House resolution that condemns the violence in East

Timor, supports the United Nations mission, UNAMET, and recognizes that U.S. foreign policy will require both an effective shortterm response to the humanitarian and human rights crisis, as

well as progress toward independence for East Timor.

Mr. Chairman, last November immediately after being sworn as

Assistant Secretary, I traveled to Jakarta where I met government

officials, labor, and religious leaders, and human rights activists to

discuss the immense challenges of curbing human rights abuses,

promoting accountability, and bringing about a successful democratic transition in what is the fourth largest country in the world.

This past March, I renewed that dialogue with special focus on

the East Timor situation, when I accompanied Secretary Albright

to Indonesia and met with President Habibie, Foreign Minister

Alatas, Megawati Soekarnoputri, General Wiranto, Indonesian citizens who were committed to human rights and independence in

East Timor, and East Timorese leader, Xanana Gusmao, while he

was still under house arrest. In recent weeks, I have met three

times with Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Jose Ramos Horta and,

again, with Mr. Gusmao. I have spoken to numerous Members of

Congress, U.S. and U.N. officials, NGO workers, journalists, and

12

concerned citizens who are dedicated to bringing this crisis to an

end.

Since the violence erupted in East Timor, I have worked closely

with Secretary Albright and supported her intense commitment to

bring about an end to the violence, hold those responsible accountable, and help East Timor make a successful transition to independence. During the past 2 weeks, at the U.N. General Assembly

in New York, many people from many nations have been working

literally around the clock to address the crisis. I can tell you from

my personal observation that the Secretary raised the issue in almost every meeting she held with her counterparts from all over

the world. Just a few days ago, Secretary Albright and I, met again

with Mr. Gusmao, Mr. Ramos-Horta, and their colleagues, who will

be joining us here shortly. I share the Secretary’s deep respect for

their commitment to East Timor and to reconciliation and democracy. I am particularly pleased to welcome Mr. Gusmao to Washington for the first time as a free man making his first visit to our

Nation’s capital.

I am especially pleased to be here today with my courageous

friend and colleague, Julia Taft, the Secretary for Population, Refugees, and Migration. You have described her tremendous accomplishments. But let me say that she has just returned from the region where she has devoted countless hours toward addressing

problem, and indeed has risked her own personal safety to do so.

Both of us are working closely with our Ambassador to Indonesia,

Stapleton Roy, the incoming Ambassador, Robert Gelbard, and the

Assistant Secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, Stanley

Roth, who has followed developments closely, made repeated trips

to the region, and has dedicated himself to finding a solution for

East Timor that preserves human rights and democratic development throughout Indonesia. Although Mr. Roth could not be here

today, Julia and I represent this Administration’s unshakable commitment to helping the people of East Timor in their quest to secure peace, establish democracy, and enjoy freedom.

I am also pleased to announce that as further demonstration of

that commitment, Secretary Albright has asked me to travel to

East and West Timor in the next few days.

In a meeting last night, Secretary Albright secured agreement

from Foreign Minister Alatas that I should visit the region to continue the Administration’s work and investigate the truth about

what has happened. During this trip, I will be working in close consultation and coordination with our incoming Ambassador, Mr.

Gelbard.

Before turning Assistant Secretary Taft, let me sketch the contours of the unfolding crisis, the international and U.S. Government response, and the immediate steps to be taken in the weeks

and days ahead.

Mr. Chairman, and members of the Committee, you are well

aware of the human rights tragedy that unfolded in the wake of

the U.N.-sponsored consultation of August 30th, in which 78.5 percent of the population voted for independence.

I need not repeat for you the story of how 99 percent of the East

Timorese people, displaying great courage and determination, cast

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their ballots despite the violent intimidation tactics of pro-integrationist militias bent on disrupting the democratic process.

Nor need I recount in detail the first painful days of rampage by

these pro-integrationist militias in forcing Timorese people from

their homes, torturing and killing them, and destroying their

homes, while at the same time harassing, wounding, and in some

cases killing humanitarian personnel, religious officials, and journalists.

Let me briefly review what we know about the current overall

situation in East and West Timor. I would like to leave the specifics and particularly the plight of the displaced East Timorese

throughout Indonesia and in East and West Timor to my colleague,

Julia Taft.

Eyewitness reports from East Timor tell us that as of just a few

days ago, the looting, burning, maiming, and killing was continuing

even as Indonesian military forces were leaving the area.

The U.S. Embassy in Jakarta has confirmed church and press reports that several days ago, at least nine church officials and staff,

accompanied by an Indonesian journalist, were killed while bringing emergency supplies to displaced East Timorese hiding in the

countryside.

Reportedly, these killings were committed by members of the Indonesian military. These deaths serve as a sad reminder that the

countryside remains unsafe for the people who live there. I have

a statement from the State Department condemning the murders

of these individuals. With your permission, I would like to submit

it for the hearing record.

Mr. SMITH. Without objection, Mr. Koh, it will be made a part

of the record.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kol appears in the appendix.]

Mr. KOH. Equally distressing, humanitarian workers and journalists continue to be at risk, as witnessed by the brutal killing of

Dutch journalist, Sander Thoenes on September 21st, and the more

recent murder of the Indonesian journalist I just described.

If the situation in East Timor remains dire, the conditions of

those East Timorese stranded in West Timor is, in Secretary

Albright’s words, simply ‘‘appalling.’’

As I speak, perhaps as many as 230,000 East Timorese, possibly

over a quarter of the East Timorse population, have fled or been

forced to flee to West Timor. Despite concerted pressure from the

international community, we still have no evidence that the Indonesian Government has disarmed or disbanded any of the militias.

Assistant Secretary Taft will describe, in more detail, what she

personally witnessed in the camps, in particular the heavy militia

presence in the camps. While the Indonesian Government has indicated that the East Timorese in the camps will be allowed to return home, we have no evidence that they have been permitted to

do so.

To the contrary, reports tell us that the Indonesian Government

is deporting some of these East Timorese to other parts of Indonesia. As Secretary Albright has made clear, ‘‘this is an unacceptable and a clear violation of international standards of human

rights’’.

14

The current situation in East and West Timor raises three fundamental human rights and democracy concerns, which will be the

focus of my Bureau’s and my attention in the days ahead.

First, we have seen pervasive violence. Pro-integrationist militias, with the support of Indonesian military have committed largescale killings, including reported murders, torture, involuntary disappearances, rape, and other sexual abuse and the forced expulsion

of possibly one quarter of the population. Only through investigations now beginning, and the one that I will be carrying out myself

will, we be able to determine just how many victims this crisis has

claimed.

Second, we have witnessed a deliberate campaign by the militias

with their supporters and the Indonesian military to inhibit, prohibit, and abuse the fundamental human rights of the East Timorese people. Humanitarian observers and journalists have also been

targets of this effort. We have seen widespread destruction of property, efforts to block aid to those in need, and deliberate efforts to

squelch the reporting of ongoing violence by intimidating and attacking aid workers, U.N. observers, and journalists.

Third, we fear that the militias and their allies in the military

have acted not just to undercut human rights, but to subvert democracy as well. They have attempted first to interfere with and

then to overturn a freely and fairly undertaken referendum on the

future of the territory. Militias, acting with the assistance of the

Indonesian military, have targeted those who have supported independence, attacked and harassed U.N. personnel, murdered clergy

and journalists, and sought to prevent the implementation of a

clear U.N. mandate to which their own President had agreed.

As you know, the international community has responded to

these massive abuses, applying strong diplomatic pressure to

source the consent of the Indonesian Government to allow the arrival of a multinational force, known as INTERFET, into East

Timor to keep the peace. The Australians, who have led this force,

along with the many other nations who have pledged to commit

troops and resources, deserve our recognition and support.

As you will hear, troops have already begun to arrive. We are

providing logistical, airlift, communications, and intelligence support, to INTERFET as well as a Civil Affair Unit. We have suspended our military-to-military cooperation, cut off all arms transfers, and are reviewing our assistance policy for Indonesia.

The international community has also responded decisively on

the human rights front. This past week the Commission on Human

Rights of the United Nations convened an extraordinary special

session in Geneva. The Commission voted by a large margin, 32 to

12 with 6 abstentions, in favor of a resolution calling for an International Commission of Inquiry to gather the facts and establish

the truth about these recent, terrible events.

As you know, Mr. Chairman, the United States voted with the

E.U. in support of that resolution. Its key paragraph called on the

U.N. Secretary General to establish an International Commission

of Inquiry to gather and compile systematically information on possible violations of human rights and breaches of international and

humanitarian law in East Timor since January 1999, and to provide the Secretary General with its conclusions.

15

This paragraph calls for the Commission of inquiry to include

human rights experts from Asia and to work in cooperation with

the Indonesian National Commission on Human Rights (known as

KOMNASHAM). These elements were added to address concerns

expressed by the Government of Indonesia to gain their support for

the Commission.

In the end, however, of the Government of Indonesia was unwilling to accept the language and opposed the final text. The United

Nations Commission on Human Rights, to its credit, recognized

that it had an important duty to move forward, and passed the resolution. It marks an important step in our efforts to shed light on

what happened in East Timor.

To discuss next steps, during the past week and a half, I have

met with many of our own members of our U.N. mission in New

York, including Ambassador Richard Holbrooke and his able staff,

and numerous officials of the United Nations, including U.N.

Under-Secretary General Sergio Viera de Mello, U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, and UNAMET head

Ian Martin. Everyone agrees that all concerned governments,

NGO’s, and international organizations must work together to

make the resolution of this human rights and humanitarian crisis

a top priority. We must continue to demand that the Indonesian

military stop supporting militias who are committing acts of violence and destruction in East Timor, that they cooperate with

INTERFET, and withdraw completely from East Timor.

We must also continue to make clear, as Secretary Albright has

stated in no uncertain terms, that ‘‘what happens in West Timor

to East Timorese living elsewhere in Indonesia is as important to

United States policy as what happens in East Timor itself’’.

Even as Indonesian civil officials are searching for a workable solution to the humanitarian problem of feeding and housing hundreds of thousands of refugees, the militias’ continuing pattern of

harassment and intimidation demonstrates that much more needs

to be done.

I will let Assistant Secretary Taft speak more to these issues. It

is clear that the Indonesian Government must disband and disarm

the militias. There must be no tranborder attacks into East Timor

or interference with humanitarian and human rights operations

there.

To support these demands, in the wake of the post-election violence, we suspended our military cooperation with Indonesia and

initiated an ongoing review of our entire aid package. As we continue this review, we will, in the words of Secretary Albright, ‘‘take

into account all relevant factors, including whether a secure environment has been created in the West Timor camps, whether necessary services are being provided, whether East Timorese who desire to return home are allowed to do so, and whether Indonesia’s

military is preventing the militias in West Timor from carrying out

attacks in East Timor.’’

We must also work to facilitate the establishment of the Commission of Inquiry that the United Nations Human Rights Commission

voted to create and to ensure its work begins quickly. We are concerned by reports that the Indonesian Government has reconsidered its decision to cooperate with the Commission of Inquiry. We

16

have already strongly urged the Government to revisit this decision.

Finally, we have begun the process of identifying ways that we

can help United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan, and Mary

Robinson, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human

Rights, in the effort to form the Commission of Inquiry. Two nights

ago in New York, I met with High Commissioner Robinson to discuss her initiative in bringing this critical human rights situation

to the formal attention of the United Nations and to encourage the

U.N. to maintain the momentum.

We discussed many items which are mentioned in my written

statement, which I am prepared to discuss in the questioning period. Mr. Chairman, let me stress that we do not seek a rush-tojudgment about who is ultimately responsible. There have been

grave losses of life in East Timor, disturbing reports of human

rights violations and other crimes by the Indonesian military or

people affiliated with them, and almost certainly serious breaches

of international humanitarian law.

We remain tremendously concerned about the plight of the East

Timorese people. But we need to document events fully and completely. That is the purpose of my upcoming trip. That is the purpose of the Commission of Inquiry: To assemble the information

that will enable the international community to decide what further action needs to be taken. We are also providing aid to East

Timor, which my Assistant Security Taft will describe in more detail.

Finally, as Assistant Secretary for Democracy, Human Rights,

and Labor, I must make special mention of our efforts to promote

a democratic transition in Indonesia, even as we are attempting to

promote a democratic transition in East Timor. If the tragic events

in East Timor seem all too familiar, it is because they grow out of

nationwide problems that Indonesia has faced in its own transition

to democracy last year.

The Indonesian people have shown genuine enthusiasm for the

democratic process and have begun to create civil institutions, including press associations and independent human rights organizations, that will provide the foundation for the growth and development of civil society.

We believe that a living, growing, and vibrant democratic institution offers the best hope for the people of Indonesia. A nation rich

in diversity, Indonesia should not fear democracy, which can only

help bind together its many people. The United States fully supports the people of Indonesia at this pivotal moment in their country’s history.

We are prepared to support this democratic transition in every

way possible. But we are hindered from doing so as long as East

and West Timor remain a human rights and humanitarian crisis.

The goals toward which we are working are clear. The Government of Indonesia, and specifically the Indonesian military, must

immediately disarm and disband the militias. Indonesian military

support, organization, training, and direction of these brutal forces

must cease.

The human rights abuses of the militia personnel, police, and Indonesian military must be documented and the abusers brought to

17

justice. We must support the Commission of Inquiry in its work,

and support East Timor as it makes its transition to independence

and Indonesia as it makes its transition to democracy. We simply

cannot let ballots be undone by bullets.

Mr. Chairman, we appreciate the strong and constructive interest shown by Members of Congress, and by you in particular,

throughout this humanitarian and human rights crisis. We have a

tremendous opportunity to help at this historic moment. We must

work together to meet these considerable challenges.

I would like to turn the podium over to my colleague, Julia Taft.

HON. JULIA TAFT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU OF POPULATION, REFUGEES, AND MIGRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF

STATE

Ms. TAFT. Thank you, Harold, and Mr. Chairman, and Committee Members. Thank you very much for this opportunity to appear before you to discuss the situation of Timor, and the role of

the U.S. Government, and what we are doing, and should be doing

in the humanitarian crisis.

Last week, I organized a multinational humanitarian mission to

East and West Timor comprising of senior humanitarian officials

from the United Kingdom, Sweden, Thailand, Japan, and the

United States. This past Friday, we released our findings from that

mission in Jakarta. I would like to submit that for the record,

along with my full statement.

[Statement from the Multinational Humanitarian Mission appears in the appendix.]

Ms. TAFT. This mission was really shocked by the level of widespread destruction of homes, commercial facilities, and public facilities in Dili. We arrived D-plus–2. So, that was 2 days after the

INTERFET people arrived. The damage was just unspeakable.

It was a very sad commentary on the price that these people

have had to pay for their vote of independence. Unfortunately, we

were unable to move beyond Dili because of the security situation.

However, subsequent U.N. assessment missions have found widespread damage throughout East Timor.

Manatuto, which was previously home to 16,000 people is completely destroyed and depopulated, and estimates are that between

60 to 70 percent of the houses in the western region of East Timor

are destroyed. The Port of Suay was reported to be 95 percent destroyed. Much of the damage is by fire, consistent with the slash

and burn approach of the area.

With deployment of the International Force for East Timor,

INTERFET, under the able command of Australian Major General

Cosgrove, and the withdrawal of the Indonesian troops, we believe

the security situation is slowly but progressively improving. Internally displaced persons who sought refuge in the hills of East

Timor are now starting to return to Dili as security permits.

When we were there on day 2, it was virtually an empty city.

Dili used to have 130,000 people. It was virtually empty, except for

the military presence. Now, I understand people are coming back

in the tens of thousands. The U.N. agencies, nongovernmental organizations, and INTERFET are working very well together under

difficult circumstances. I must say that I believe that the cooperaVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
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tion that I saw when I was there was the best I have ever seen

in terms of international, United Nations, NGO coordination.

A part of this was because many of them had gone to Darwin,

evacuated to Darwin. They were there to plan how they were going

to come back into East Timor. They are very well-coordinated and

working closely with INTERFET. However, thousands of displaced

persons still remain beyond relief in Eastern Timor.

We have no evidence of starvation at this point, but there are

clearly people who are in vulnerable situations. The World Food

Program has been conducting food drops with U.S. Government

support. However, food drops, as you know, can only reach a small

proportion of those individuals in need. The relief agencies now are

planning to begin to move by helicopter and truck to areas where

security permits.

I would like to speak for a moment about West Timor, where we

also spent 2.5 days. We face a different humanitarian challenge in

West Timor. While the numbers are not precise, there may be as

many as 230,000 displaced persons in camps in West Timor, as

well as in churches, communities facilities, and host families. It

averages out to about 1⁄3, 1⁄3, and 1⁄3, a third in the camps, a third

in host families, and a third in various churches and school facilities. These innocent people sought refuge or were forced to leave

East Timor as the result of the brutal anti-independence campaign

of intimidation perpetrated by the militia gangs, which the Government of Indonesia did not or could not contain.

In fact, there are credible reports, as Harold Koh has mentioned,

that in many instances the militia were actually acting in concert

with the Indonesian armed forces. Conditions in the make-shift

camps in West Timor are very difficult. Civilian authorities are

making efforts to provide food. There is little evidence of serious

material needs.

However, requirements for water, sanitation, and health services

will intensify with the onset of the rainy season. I went to four different refugee camp locations while I was there. I must say, the

material needs are not what is the most pressing. What they need

is security, and what they need to do is to be free of the intimidating environment in which they are living.

The human rights activists with whom we met on our mission in

West Timor told us of harrowing stories of militia running rampant

in the camps at night, of Indonesian army and police forces standing by while armed thugs in camps forcibly recruited young men,

kidnaping others, and even murdering with impunity. We cannot

verify those stories.

This is going to have to be the responsibility of the human rights

inquiry and Harold Koh’s mission as well. These reports came to

us from very many different sources and really need to be followed

up. In every humanitarian crisis, host governments have the key

role for providing for security and safety of their citizens or those

who seek refuge in their country.

The Indonesian Government is aware of its obligations. The civilian side appears to be trying to care for and provide for the camp

residents. On our mission, we were accompanied by the Minister of

Social Welfare, Justika Baharajah, who is working hard to ensure

that water, sanitation, food, and shelter are provided.

19

In other respects, the Government is also making the right statements. We do not know if they are making the right commitments.

They have assured us, for example, that they would not resettle

camp residents immediately in West Timor or to other islands as

some have suggested they would. This is in contrast to some of the

statements that early on there was a forced trans-migration to

other islands.

We could not find any validation of that from any of the NGO’s

or assistance workers. The Government also told us, and repeated

on Jakarta television and in the newspaper, that the Government

would permit and facilitate returns to East Timor for all who

wished to do so. The coordinating Minister Haryono told us that

the Government would begin this week a public information campaign explaining to all who fled from East Timor what their options would be: To resettle permanently in Indonesia, to return to

East Timor, or to stay temporarily in West Timor and return at

some later date.

Last week, President Habibie committed to allow the U.N. High

Commissioner for Refugees to have access to West Timor and to

setup field offices in Atambua and Kupang. The UNHCR advance

team arrived in Kupang yesterday to begin setting up these offices

and the UNHCR also traveled to Atambua.

These are encouraging steps, but the Government must continue

to provide effective cooperation. In addition, we believe that the

Government should allow the International Committee of the Red

Cross in West Timor to exercise fully its mandate and assume responsibility for initiating tracing procedures to reunite families

torn apart in the conflict.

As you have seen in the reports, almost all of the camps, except

those that with a strong militia presence, are almost all women

and children. The men are not there. Only time will tell whether

the Government can or will deliver on these commitments. In the

meantime, conditions in the camp remain tenuous.

The International Humanitarian Community should have full access to the camps. The Government and the Indonesian army must

ensure not only safe access by relief workers, but also the safety

for the refugees. For this reason, we have called upon the Government to ensure the civilian character of the camps. That the militia

must be disarmed and removed from the camps.

Access to the camps by international organizations and NGO’s is

absolutely essential. We spent a lot of time trying to convince local

authorities of the seriousness with which the international community takes the welfare of these people. We also stand firm on ensuring that those who would violate the fundamental rights of camp

residents know that they cannot act in secrecy and with impunity.

As I expressed directly to my Indonesian hosts, and as Secretary

Albright, Secretary Cohen, and our Ambassador in Jakarta have

stressed repeatedly, the camps must be off-limits to armed militias

of any and all political persuasions. The refugee population in the

camps represents no threat to outside forces, but organized groups

within the camps do present a danger to fellow refuges.

We also must be prepared to facilitate the return of refugees to

the East, under the auspices of the UNHCR. At present, it is not

possible to determine how many may want to repatriate. We are

20

encouraged that the Indonesian Government is setting forth a policy of repatriation and that they will coordinate with the UNHCR.

We will stand ready to fund the safe passage back for those who

wish to return, and we will make every effort to help returnees reestablish their livelihoods with time to plant in advance of the

rainy season. Failure to succeed in the next few weeks will force

people to remain in uncertain and insecure areas at the mercy of

the militias or in a state of complete dependence on humanitarian

aid for another year or more. We must not fail.

For those desiring to stay in West Timor rather than repatriate

to East Timor, they must do so voluntarily and we will assist them

through NGO’s. In closing, let me just say that our attention is

clearly focused on the humanitarian needs of the displaced and affected populations in East and West Timor.

We are participating as a Government in the multinational force,

which is the international communities best hope for ending the

humanitarian crisis, restoring security, and ensuring that the will

of the East Timorese people prevails. The U.S. Government has

provided $10 million, primarily, through aid to support humanitarian needs.

Yesterday, the State Department announced an additional con- tribution from my Bureau of $5.1 million to support UNHCR,

ICRC, the World Food Program, and the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. These are initial investments.

With the new fiscal year, no doubt, we will be making more.

In closing, let me thank you for your attention, your sustained

attention, on these issues. This is a very complex situation. The

role that our Office, the State Department, and I are playing in

this is on the humanitarian side, making sure all donors are aware

of their obligation to undergird the international efforts that need

to be made, to work with the NGO’s, and to keep all due pressure

on the Government of Indonesia to allow the access, allow repatriation, and to allow these people to go back home in safety.

Thank you very much, sir. I will be happy to answer any questions.

Mr. SMITH. Secretary Taft, thank you very much. Secretary Koh,

thank you very much for your excellent testimonies. I have a number of questions. I will ask a few, submit some for the record, and

then yield to my colleagues.

On Tuesday, and you made some reference to this, Foreign Minister Alatas said that Indonesia will allow the UNHCR and the

International Committee for the Red Cross to visit West Timor.

How much access has there been. Have we actually seen people on

the ground get in?

Ms. TAFT. As of yesterday, the UNHCR did send its teams in.

This morning I called the Governor of West Timor, Governor Tallo,

to find out whether or not he actually allowed them inside the

camps. He said they were allowed in the camps. That they were

proceeding on this.

He said, ‘‘my Central Government has said these people are

going to be repatriated and we must do everything right away’’. I

said, yes, sir, you have to do it, but you have to do it through the

UNHCR. So, they have the message. They have started the campaign.

21

Our challenge is to make sure that the UNHCR really does get

confidential and expansive access to all of these people so that

there is no intimidation in trying to identify who would like to be

repatriated.

Mr. SMITH. Unfortunately, we had invited a representative from

the Department of Defense. Either through scheduling or for some

other reason, they did decline. Perhaps you can shed some light on

this. When Assistant Secretary of Defense Franklin Kramer, testified before our Subcommittee in July 1998, I had asked him a number of questions about the JCET’s Program, the military-to-military

cooperation.

His answer was that, ‘‘By helping to professionalize the Indonesian armed forces, we can help reduce human rights abuses.’’ Obviously, this optimism was unwarranted, in light of the deliberate

and widespread violence that has been perpetuated by the Indonesian military in East Timor, and reports that we had even then.

We had people like Pius Lustrilanang come and testify before the

Committee. He talked of the torture that he endured, what he believed to be, at the hands of KOPASSUS. He woke up. He was

blind-folded, heard reveille every morning, knew that he was at a

military base, as he was being beaten each and every day. He testified, as did other advocates of human rights organizations, that the

U.S. ought to cease its cooperation with this military until that

time there was a cessation to that kind of abuse.

We also understand, as one of our witnesses today, Alan Nairn,

will testify, that Admiral Dennis Blair, U.S. Command-In-Chief of

the Pacific was dispatched to meet with General Wiranto on April

8th in the wake of escalating violence, such as the massacre of the

church in Liquica in Timor 2 days earlier.

According to Nairm, rather than telling Wiranto to shut the militias down, Blair instead offered him a series of promises of new

U.S. assistance. He writes that Indonesian officers took this as a

green light to proceed with the militia operation. Is that report accurate?

Ms. TAFT. There are a lot of reports, a lot of rumors, and a lot

of misinformation, and disinformation. I do not know how to confirm or deny any of those comments. My suggestion is that you

write the questions down. We will make sure that the Defense Department has an opportunity to respond to them.

I do know that the JCET students have been withdrawn from

classes in the United States. I cannot comment on what Blair said.

I do want you to be aware, however, that Secretary Cohen has been

in the region. He did meet with Wiranto. He has issued a very

strong statement, which we can have submitted for the record. This

is all annotated.

Ms. TAFT. Basically, he warned General Wiranto that the military of Indonesia is at a critical turning point and urged them that

they permit and participate openly in assisting on the humanitarian side. He has made these comments to the press, to the General, and to all with whom he has spoken.

I would like to have his statement submitted for the record, too,

which I think you will find very good.

[The statement referred to appears in the appendix.]

22

Ms. TAFT. We have also been meeting with the military to find

out what they can do to enhance the humanitarian response here

and they are certainly seized with this.

Mr. SMITH. Not to belabor the point, but we have had hearings

in this Subcommittee, which were totally bipartisan. My friends on

the other side of the aisle were equally vociferous in their concerns

about our training of KOPASSUS, the sniper training, and some of

the other kinds of training that occurred.

Our hope was that until there was a clean bill of health, with

regard to the Indonesian military, that we would not have anything

to do with them. It seems to me that we may be doing some of the

right things now. I am very grateful for that. I am encouraged by

that. Many of us saw, maybe not this kind of massive killing, but

we saw this kind of outrage on a smaller scale in Irian Jaya, in

Aceh, as well as in East Timor, as well as in Jakarta itself.

I would hope that all of us would collectively learn that when you

train forces that have notorious human rights baggage and abuse

affixed to them, you feel the problem. The Australians apparently

just picked up a number of KOPASSUS soldiers in East Timor carrying their identification cards. They could have been people who

we trained.

We do not know that. I have asked that question of the Defense

Department. Who is it that we have trained? Where is the list of

trainees and what they went on to do or become? I was told we

keep no such lists. So, they indeed could be some of the people who

are now in East Timor. So, hopefully we can get to the bottom of

that. I hope we have learned that lesson.

Again, I think it was in the Washington Post not so long ago,

maybe quite a long time ago, but Secretary Cohen, was there at a

KOPASSUS meeting. There were these members of that so-called

elite military unit with scorpions on them showing how macho they

were. These people have turned out to be thugs. Many of us

thought it. We thought we knew it. The human rights community

raised many red flags about that for quite a long time.

Regrettably now, it is coming home to roost. I would hope that

we could get a response back from the Administration on this because it is very, very important. I do have a question about the targeting of Catholics. There are numerous reports of deliberate

killings of Catholic clergy and religious workers in East Timor by

militiamen and by members of the Indonesian military.

This past Sunday, nine Catholic workers, including nuns, deacons, and seminarians were massacred in Bacau by retreating

troops. What does the U.S. know? What do we know about the deliberate targeting of Catholic Church workers and clergy? Mr. Koh.

Mr. KOH. Mr. Chairman, as you know, we have submitted our report on religious freedom, which covers all of the countries, but has

focused on this issue. I understand you are having hearings with

Ambassador Robert Seiple, which would give a broader context to

that issue.

You are correct that, as we pointed out in our statement, that we

have confirmed that nine religious officials and staff, accompanied

by a journalist, were murdered while driving in a vehicle between

Los Palos and Bacau in East Timor. Obviously, we do not know the

motivation or orders behind that. Looking into that incident will be

23

one of the things that I will be focusing on when I visit East and

West Timor in the next few days.

Mr. SMITH. I appreciate that. It is important, I think, for us to

know and for everyone to know whether or not these are indigenous East Timorese or this is an orchestrated crackdown by the Indonesian military who use militias as the front. In terms of H.R.

2895, does the Administration have a position on that legislation?

Ms. TAFT. I do not think so.

Mr. SMITH. Could you provide that for the Committee as soon as

possible? The hope is that we can move on that. If there is input,

obviously all of us would like to and know what the Administration

would like to do.

Ms. TAFT. We will get back to you.

Mr. SMITH. Let me yield to my good friend and colleague from

Georgia.

Ms. MCKINNEY. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Assistant Secretary Koh, in your testimony you suggest that we

support the establishment of a U.N. Commission of Inquiry. Could

you tell me what the difference is between a Commission of Inquiry

and the establishment of a tribunal?

Mr. KOH. Yes. A Commission of Inquiry is a process which has

been used on a number of occasions with regard to Bosnia and

Rwanda. What was unusual in this case is that the U.N. Human

Rights Commission in Geneva, which ordinarily gathers every

March for about 6 weeks, held a special session to consider the

question.

That session was called by a very close vote at the request of

Mary Robinson, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human

rights. It had two key operative paragraphs. The first called for the

International Commission of Inquiry, which would have a standing

jurisdiction to gather facts. A commission can be the first step on

the way to a tribunal or it could undertake full-scale investigations.

The view was that it should have international legal experts onboard, particularly those from Asian backgrounds who would be familiar with human rights conditions in the region.

The second operative paragraph of note is one which called for

the various thematic rapporteurs that are already commissioned by

the U.N. Human Rights Commission, including arbitrary detention

and extra-judicial killings, to visit East Timor.

They plan to do so as a group. So, in a way this group of thematic rapporteurs going in together perhaps to file a joint report

will be another kind of international body. My own visit will be undertaken from the perspective of someone outside the system looking at the reports, getting to the bottom of what is going on.

As I think the Chairman correctly noted in his opening statement, we have heard many reports. We do not know how high the

numbers are. We do not know who is responsible, which means

that we have to do some full-scale examination of what the truth

is and then take the evidence where it leads.

Ms. MCKINNEY. So, was there a Commission of Inquiry prior to

the establishment of both the Rwanda and Yugoslavia Tribunals?

Mr. KOH. In the Yugoslavia Tribunal, Professor Basieuni of

DePaul University was a key member of that Commission, which

24

gathered a massive amount of documentation which was then

turned over to the Bosnian War Crimes Tribunal.

Indeed, it was the very output of that Commission, which I think

created the conviction among the Security Council Members that

there needed to be a War Crimes Tribunal. That was formed under

Security Council mandate. The Commission documents are very,

very massive and have been widely examined.

Ms. MCKINNEY. My next question is about a choice of words. I

recently viewed, for a second time, a BBC documentary on the

Rwanda Genocide. I watched as Christine Shelly, the State Department spokesperson, was painfully tortured in her exercise to try

and describe why acts of genocide in the Rwandan context were not

actually, did not constitute, genocide. She did not do a good job, of

course.

President Clinton goes back several years later and apologizes

and says that we just did not understand what was happening in

Rwanda at the time. We have had 25 years to understand what has

been happening in East Timor. And 200,000 East Timorese have

died, some through starvation.

Are we using the word ‘‘genocide’’ or are we still hooked on ‘‘acts

of genocide’’ to describe what is happening in East Timor?

Mr. KOH. As you know Congresswoman, genocide has both a

legal definition as a part of the 1948 Convention on Prevention and

Punishment of Genocide, which the U.S. ratified in 1986, although

it remained unratified for a long period of time. It also has a popular political connotation growing out of the holocaust.

Then the question is how should it be extended to other circumstances? As you well know, the notion of genocide in political

terms is something that I think people carefully evaluate the parallels and then use that term. For the Genocide Convention, that

includes acts of incitement to genocide and genocide in part, which

means elimination of people based on their ethnic or religious or

racial background in part.

I think one of the complicating factors is that as a legal term,

there may be acts that fall under the Genocide Convention and

hence have a legal significance, which you would not think of as

genocide in a political sense.

Ms. MCKINNEY. So, 200,000 people dead from starvation, massacres, and torture and we call that ‘‘acts of genocide?’’

Mr. KOH. That is both a legally and politically correct definition

of what went on.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Will the gentle lady yield?

Ms. MCKINNEY. Yes.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. I just wanted to note that I believe it was

after Milosevic had killed over 250,000 Slovenians, Bosnians, and

Kosovars throughout Yugoslavia that our President made a declaration that this man was committing genocide.

Another ironic thing that I think most people do not realize is

that Milosevic was duly elected President by the people of Serbia.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. If you do not have any more questions,

then we will go ahead and go to the Representative from American

Samoa.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

25

Again, I want to thank Secretary Koh and Secretary Taft for

their statements. I would like to say that I have to personally congratulate President Habibie for his courage, despite all of the opposition against holding this referendum. I have to give President

Habibie credit for allowing the people of East Timor to go through

the referendum, the exercise.

The problem I have is that when the crisis occurred after the

election, the first thing that came out from our own Government

representative and Secretary Cohen, as I recall, immediately was

the response ‘‘No U.S. troops in this crisis in Asia.’’ Then the next

thing I hear, through the media, that the President’s National Security Advisor, Mr. Berger, likened the East Timor crisis to how

messy his daughter’s room is in college.

Of course, later Mr. Berger apologized for making that remark,

which tells you exactly the sense of indifference of some of the top

leaders of our own Government. It is an Asian thing. It is not a

global issue affecting human beings. Then some other officials of

our Government said, ‘‘East Timor is not Kosovo.’’

Then the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of our Government calls up General Wiranto because they are good buddies.

They are friends. Over the years, this is how the relationship has

been between our military leaders and the military leaders of Indonesia.

I do not know if it had any effect about General Wiranto’s decision making, but the fact of the matter is these militias were also

a part of the military might of the Indonesian Government. You

cannot change that. Why do you suppose the Indonesian army or

General Wiranto just could not tell his troops to leave or even to

shoot these militias? Because they are their own people. It is quite

obvious.

Mr. Chairman, I have some questions here. Mr. Horta recently,

in a television interview, stated that these 200,000 East Timorese

are now currently in West Timor. These refugee camps are currently being supervised by the militias or elements of the militias.

I would like to ask Ms. Taft, is this true?

Ms. TAFT. They are present. At the camps I saw, they were

present, yes, sir.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Have you offered any strong, strong recommendation? Obviously you mentioned early in your statement,

they are still being intimidated by the militias.

Ms. TAFT. That is right.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. For all we know, these 200,000 people are

still being massacred, murdered, or disappear, yet our whole focus

in the media and the international community is on the troops

going to East Timor, with hardly any mention about these 200,000

refugees, that are being intimidated by the militias.

Ms. TAFT. I am glad you mentioned that because that is the

whole reason we went so quickly as a multinational humanitarian

group. You are right. The attention was on the troops. The attention was on the politics. We were concerned about who is focusing

attention on the humanitarian dilemma. To be able to mobilize this

and get out there so quickly because we were on the ground starting to work on September 19th with our representatives.

26

Preceding us by 2 days was Mrs. Ogata, the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees who was on the scene and working with the officials.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Ms. Secretary, I know, because my time is

going.

Ms. TAFT. OK.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Is it also true that none of the international

NGO’s that do humanitarian services are allowed by the Indonesian government to help in these refugee camps?

Ms. TAFT. There are a number of agencies in West Timor.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. But very limited.

Ms. TAFT. They are working with host families, some of the

churches, and the outside groups. What they have not been allowed

to do is work in the collective camp areas. That is because the civilian authorities have said that it is unsafe for them to have access.

We pressed them very hard on that. We said, make it safe. Make

the military make it safe. Get the militia out. Get the camps

civilianized. We said that. Mrs. Ogata said that. Secretary Albright

has been making that point as well.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Secretary Taft, will it be your recommendation, in the strongest terms, that the President has got to make a

decision about this situation, where the militia is still supervising

and operating these refugee camps? This is ridiculous.

Ms. TAFT. What President are you talking about?

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Our own President.

Ms. TAFT. Our own President.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Can we do something about this?

Ms. TAFT. Our own President expressed concern about this. We

are doing everything we can. We are not sending—if you are suggestion is that we try to send in peacekeepers into West Timor to

breakup these camps, that is news and you should talk to the

Armed Services Committee about it.

Let me just say that because it is very difficult in these situations, and we do not want to have a repeat of what happened with

the Hutus in Eastern Zaire and all of the problems we had with

the militias and the refugees there in 1994, which you know so

much about, Congresswoman.

We need to get those people out. The way we get them out is to

get a system for them to repatriate and to get access by the U.N.

High Commission for Refugees, by the ICRC into those camps as

soon as possible to fully do the interview and the out-placement.

We have commitments from the Government to allow that to happen.

There are people from the U.N. on the ground now trying to

work those modalities. I am sure we are going to see within the

next several days good progress. Everybody is focusing on this. Security and protection are the key issues.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Reclaiming my time.

Our biggest reason for sending troops to East Timor was security. Now, 200,000 refugees are now in West Timor and we are not

talking about their security needs. I know you have expressed concern. I know you brought recommendations.

What I am concerned about is that this is just a lot of rhetoric.

Somebody has got to make a decision. I was just curious if our

27

country has made a firm decision to the Indonesian Government

that they have got to do something about this.

Ms. TAFT. Yes, sir. We have said this.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. How long do you think we are going to be

put on hold, another 10 days, another 30 days before they finally

allow us to bring NGO’s to help feed the people?

Ms. TAFT. Today, it is starting. I have talked with them. Starting

today, they are getting access. Now, there are not ships in place to

take them from Kupang back to East Timor.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. You mentioned earlier that we are putting

in about $15 million in economic assistance.

Ms. TAFT. No, humanitarian assistance.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Have you calculated approximately what

would be the total need to give proper assistance, to these refugee

camps? Is it $15 million or $100 million? What do you see as a good

number to give proper assistance to these people?

Ms. TAFT. The U.N. has done its initial preliminary assessment

for East and West Timor. They say $134 million is what is required

for the humanitarian first traunch. We have given $15 million in

the last week. As soon as we start the next fiscal year, we are

going to get more.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. One more question, Mr. Chairman. I know

my time is up. It is ironic. The second most powerful economic

country in the world, who happens to be in Asia, the country that

has the largest investment in corporate resources throughout Asia,

happens to be Japan. Is our Government putting any pressure on

Japan to contribute at least $100 million out of the billions and

trillions of profits that they have made in the Asian region to give

assistance to East Timor?

Ms. TAFT. They are being forthcoming in their funding. They participated in our humanitarian mission. They are coming up with

humanitarian funding. I understand they are going to make contributions to the Trust Fund for East Timor as well.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Faleomavaega.

Mr. KOH. If I could just add that I have just been at the U.N.

General Assembly. An extraordinarily large number of the bilateral

meetings and the multilateral meetings addressed this question

with our Government, we urged various allies to make contributions to address the total need, both in bilateral discussion with the

Japanese Foreign Minister, Mr. Komorah, and also in various multilateral settings of regional ministerial breakfasts and other discussions. These issues were discussed at great length.

Mr. TANCREDO [presiding]. Thank you very much.

The panel is supposed to be here just until 2 p.m. I know that

there are other questions from our members of the Committee. I

am going to try to move to enforce the 5-minute rule. Let me ask

you just one question quickly, Secretary Koh.

There have been reports in the Indonesian press recently about

Australian peacekeeping forces that are allegedly committing

human rights violations themselves in East Timor. I just wanted

to know quickly what your impression is of the accuracy of those

reports.

28

Mr. KOH. We have heard those reports. We have absolutely no

basis to think that they have any substance whatsoever. We are

very concerned, in fact, about public disinformation in Jakarta over

what is happening with regard to the multinational force. That is

one of the messages I am going to be reinforcing when I visit in

the next few days.

Mr. TANCREDO. Thank you. Mr. Delahunt. Do you have questions?

Mr. DELAHUNT. Listening to your testimony, Mr. Koh, in response to a question by Ms. McKinney regarding the tribunal as

pre-cursor, or rather the Commission of Inquiry as a pre-cursor to

an ad hoc tribunal. I was thinking as you were responding, that if

there has ever been a situation that demonstrates so clearly the

need for a permanent international criminal court, it is exactly

what has transpired here in East Timor. I would encourage you

and Secretary Taft to reflect, continue discussion within the Department of State about the Administration’s position on the international permanent criminal court.

It is, I think, indeed unfortunate that the United States’ position

has been in opposition to an international criminal court that could

address these issues on an ongoing basis, and may very well, have

served as a deterrent to what occurred in East Timor.

Regarding the question that was posed by Mr. Tancredo on the

press reports about the Australians. On their face, they are absurd.

They are insulting. The comment and observation that you made,

Secretary Taft, about this also implicating or our need to support

the transition to democracy in Indonesia, I would suggest that

those reports are clear evidence of a very difficult trip, this odyssey, to true democracy in Indonesia.

It seems like nothing really has changed since the days of

Suharto and Sukarno. In any event, I want to get back to a point

that other members have raised regarding the military-to-military

relationship. I understand that there is a lot of uncertainty, misinformation, disinformation.

I would like to speak to the issue of the militias. Is there any

legal basis for the militias, within the Indonesian legal system? For

example, and I am sure that you are both aware that at a point

in time in Columbia, there was legal authority for the existence, if

you will, for para-militaries. What later became to be known as

para-militaries.

That law was rescinded. Unfortunately, para-militaries continue

to exist and cause great problems in Columbia. If you can, describe,

if you are aware, is there any legal basis for the existence of these

militias?

Ms. TAFT. It is my understanding that there was, if not a written

legal base, a practice of having militias in East Timor, but not in

West Timor. This distinction was drawn to our attention when we

tried to find out who were these militias around West Timor? Were

they all East Timorese or were they disaffected West Timorese that

were unhappy about the influx of people from East Timor?

So, there is a distinction. I think what I would recommend is

that we arrange for a roundtable discussion some people from the

military and from the State Department to talk with you all about

this.

29

Mr. DELAHUNT. I do not want to presume motive, but I was very

disappointed to hear that there is not a representative of our military here, given the quotes that Chairman Smith and others, including myself, have alluded to about the position of our military

regarding the training of military in Indonesia in here, and not

having the names and lists of those available.

They certainly did not do a very good job in the area of human

rights training. That is, so clear that it cries out for an answer.

What I am concerned about is that this calls in to question the entire program, not just as it relates to Indonesia, but in terms of all

our military-to-military relationships, and really deserves to be reviewed and scrutinized.

We should have answers. I think from what you have heard here

today, this is a bipartisan concern. It is not too long ago that the

President of the United States went to Guatemala to apologize for

what occurred over a period of time, and in response really to a report that was under the aegis, as you know, of the United Nations

in implicating the United States in a genocide that occurred there

over a period of decades. We trained that military. I dare say the

same thing has occurred in Indonesia.

Mr. KOH. My response to the points made by Congressman

Delahunt on the military-to-military relationship and democracy in

Indonesia. The two are very much connected. I have visited Indonesia twice in the time that I have been in office. Although they

are not where you want them to be, this is a time of tremendous

change, and in Indonesia the first free election in many, many

years.

The difficulty will be to make that democratic transition happen

to bolster civil society and to bring the military under civilian control. That is the key. The military is a very powerful institution in

Indonesian society and has been very resistant to change. We take

for granted in this society that the military is under civilian control.

It is not something that has been taken for granted in Indonesia.

That is a very difficult thing to change. The militias then operate

under this shady mandate, as you see. This is a very difficult thing

on which to get a hold. I think the critical goal is to keep the democratic process moving in Indonesia, focus on the horrors that have

occurred in East Timor, while moving toward and promoting independence in East Timor at the same time.

It is a very complicated juggling act, and one that I think requires a lot of working together creatively. I do think it is a very

difficult and complicated situation.

Mr. DELAHUNT. Thank you very much.

Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Lantos.

Mr. LANTOS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I want to apologize to our witnesses. We have a simultaneous

hearing on the human rights situation in Togo just across the hall.

That is why I could not be with you. I want to commend both Secretary Koh and Secretary Taft for their outstanding work on this

issue as indeed on so many other issues.

I have two specific observations. I would be grateful for your

comments. I am putting the finishing touches on a Congressional

resolution which calls on the Government of Indonesia to accept

30

full financial responsibility for the total cost of destruction that has

unfolded in East Timor.

My resolution calls for the total cessation of all aid and loans by

international organizations and on a bilateral basis, until the Government of Indonesia accepts full responsibility for the financial

cost of rebuilding and reconstructing East Timor. It is preposterous

beyond belief that the Government and the military of Indonesia

acquiesced in, encouraged, or even participated in the deliberate

destruction of the infrastructure and the whole physical capital of

the eastern part of that small island.

We cannot bring back to life the people who have been killed and

the human job of rebuilding the large numbers of people with enormous traumas will be a long, difficult, and expensive one. We certainly can fix the responsibility for the physical reconstruction on

the Government of Indonesia.

I would like to either ask you to comment on what the Administration’s position will be or if there is no position yet, to convey the

substance of my resolution to Secretary Albright, with whom I had

the pleasure of talking yesterday on another issue. So, we will

know that the Administration is in tuned with us. My resolution

will have a great deal of bipartisan support.

The second issue I would like to raise relates to Japan. My good

friend and distinguished colleague from American Samoa raised

the question of Japanese financial participation. I am preparing a

letter, and I am inviting all of my colleagues to co-sign it, to the

Prime Minister of Japan calling on Japan to at long last accept its

full responsibility, not just in a financial sense, of participating in

United Nations’ peacekeeping efforts.

I remember the Second World War. I understand the problems

Japan had in terms of its military aggression against the countries

of Southeast Asia. We are now half a Century beyond that. If German military units can be in the former Yugoslavia and they are,

and they are conducting themselves with great distinction and

great effectiveness, I think the time is long overdue for Japan to

assume its military responsibility in peacekeeping operations, such

as the one in East Timor.

I find it unconscionable that countries as far away as the United

Kingdom should provide military units for the peacekeeping venture in East Timor, while Japan, the largest country in the region

with a very capable military, should not even debate or consider

the notion of sending an appropriately sized Japanese military unit

to take its place alongside the Australians and the others who have

accepted their responsibility.

I would be grateful if either of you would care to comment on my

call for Japan to recognize that the Second World War is a half a

Century behind us. The time has come for Japan to accept her

international responsibility, and to recognize that Japanese ambitions to become a permanent member of the United Nations’ Security Council sound absurd while Japan runs away from its responsibility in peacekeeping ventures.

Mr. TANCREDO. I may ask the panel, please, to condense your answer as much as possible, as we have another panel waiting out

there. They can only be here until 3 p.m.

31

Mr. KOH. With regard to the first point, Congressman Lantos, as

you know we have been doing an ongoing aid review with Indonesia for a number of weeks. As Secretary Albright made very clear

on Sunday night, we will include the following factors in our review, namely, whether secure environments were created in the

West Timor camps, whether necessary services were provided,

whether East Timorese who want to return home are allowed to do

so, and whether the Indonesian military is preventing West Timorese militias from carrying out attacks. in East Timor. We will convey the basis of your resolution to the Secretary and carefully

study the details in reviewing reconstruction assistance. With regard to the second issue about the allegations of Japan, as you

know, in another life, I have studied Japanese Constitutional Law.

The German Constitution and the Japanese Constitution do have

different wording in their provisions.

While we make our political views clear at the time in which the

Japanese are seeking expansion and participation into the Security

Council, which was one of the points of discussion between the Secretary and the Japanese Government at the U.N. General Assembly. They also make reference to Constitutional issues that those

obligations incur. I am sure that, that will force reconsideration

and examination inside the Japanese Government.

Mr. LANTOS. Thank you, Mr. Koh. Thank you.

Mr. TANCREDO. Thank you very much.

I want to sincerely express the appreciation of the Committee to

the Administration’s witnesses and ask any other members of the

Committee if they have other questions to submit them. Again,

thank you very much for your time.

Mr. KOH. Thank you.

Ms. TAFT. Thank you.

Mr. TANCREDO. I would like to bring up the second panel as

quickly as possible.

Xanana Gusmao is the President of the National Council of the

Timorese Resistance, a leader of the East Timorese Independence

Movement. For the past 20 years, Mr. Gusmao was arrested by the

Indonesian military in 1992 and sentenced to life in prison for subversion. In response to an international outcry, Indonesia reduced

the sentence to 20 years in 1994.

Mr. Gusmao can take a seat.

The Chairman of this Committee met him when he was in prison. Even in that difficult situation, it was clear that he was a

statesman, a conciliator, and a leader. His country is lucky to have

him and the world is fortunate that an independent East Timor

will be lead by someone of his caliber.

After nearly 7 years in captivity as a political prisoner, he was

released by the Indonesians earlier this month. Along with him,

Mr. Jose Ramos-Horta. He is the Vice President of the National

Council of the Timorese Resistance and was awarded the Nobel

Peace Prize in 1996, along with Bishop Carlos Belo for his efforts

toward East Timorese self-determination. An outspoken opponent

of the Indonesian occupation of East Timor for the past quarter

Century, Mr. Ramos-Horta has served for 10 years as the permanent Representative to the United Nations for the East Timorese

Independence Forces. Welcome.

32

Mr. Gusmao, please proceed.

XANANA GUSMAO, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF THE

TIMORESE RESISTANCE

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, it is an

honor to be here in the House of Representatives before you, in this

House, the venue of so many decisions regarding the world and

East Timor in particular.

On behalf of the people of East Timor, I wish to express profound

gratitude for the rulings and decisions taken in this House on East

Timor. In particular, I would like to express our gratitude to all

Congress people who played a relevant role and supported all the

bills aimed at putting an end to violence and destruction in the territory.

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. In particular, I would like to express my gratitude to Congressman Chris Smith who is hosting this hearing, for

his leadership in promoting human rights and the self-determination of East Timor. I wish also to express my gratitude and thanks

to all those who, in the House of Representatives, supported Congressman Chris Smith in his efforts.

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. I also wish to express my gratitude to Congressman Kennedy and all of the other Congress people who supported his efforts for passing the bills in the House of Representatives. My gratitude is also addressed to Senator Feingold for his efforts, too, in the passing of the bill in the Senate, the East Timor

Self-Determination Act of 1999.

These bills are extremely important for the U.S. banning of military and financial assistance to Indonesia. Also in the demanding

of the withdrawal of Indonesian troops from East Timor and putting an end to the violence undertaken by the militias in East

Timor.

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, please

allow me to use this opportunity, this historic moment, both for

myself and for my people, to address a few and brief words on the

current situation in East Timor.

The recent violence, which we all witnessed in the territory in

the past few weeks, led to a very, very critical situation. It is critical because most of the population had to seek refuge in the mountains. It is critical because tens of thousands of East Timorese were

abducted and taken forcibly into West Timor.

It is critical because the population is now experiencing a severe

situation of disease and starvation. It is critical because our families have been broken apart and most of the members of those families do not know where their relatives are or if they are alive.

We have decided that the year 2000 in East Timor will be the

year of the Emergency Plan. During and throughout this year, and

from the ashes and destruction provoked by the Indonesian military and the militias, we will establish an administration in the

territory and help the population organize itself.

33

Our population is in great need of assistance, of food, of medical

assistance, but also of psychological comfort to overcome the suffering and the deep trauma that has been committed upon it.

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. One of our main concerns at this point is the

return of the East Timorese population, which is now living in a

climate of terror and intimidation in the concentration camps in

Kupang, West Timor; Atambua, West Timor; and elsewhere on

other Indonesian Islands.

We urge the Congress to provide assistance and to help humanitarian agencies in creating the conditions for the return of the

more than 200,000 East Timorese who are presently in Wast Timor

and other Indonesian islands. The East Timorese in those concentration camps are undergoing a situation of great fear. They do

not know about their families. These 200,000 East Timorese are

mostly women, children, and old people. We request immediate

support to take them out of these concentration camps and to enable the return of these East Timorese’s to East Timor.

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. Equally important for the transition process in

East Timor is this second request that I wish to address. That is

for the Congress to pressure for the withdrawal of Indonesian

troops from East Timor. The presence of Indonesian troops in East

Timor has only led to further suffering, destruction, murder, and

the slaughter of my people.

I therefore appeal to the Congress to use its moral and political

strength to enable the withdrawal of the Indonesian troops.

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. This is but a very brief picture of the situation

in East Timor and the suffering of my people.

Thank you very much.

Mr. SMITH. [Presiding] Mr. Gusmao, thank you very much for

your excellent testimony and for the courage that you showed

under incredible duress in your years in captivity. Joseph Rees,

Chief Counsel and Staff Director of this Subcommittee, and I remember when we met with you, how we had read about you.

We had heard about you. We had read your words. We had never

seen you in person, and how impressed we were by your courage,

and also by your sense of vision that 1 day you knew there would

be freedom in East Timor. It was a matter of when and not if.

While the agony continues, the East Timorese people could not

have a more articulate and more of a persuasive spokesman for

their cause. I want to thank you for your leadership.

I would like to recognize another man for whom this Subcommittee, and Congress, and I, personally, have an enormous

amount of respect for. A man who has won the Nobel Peace Prize,

as was pointed out by Mr. Tancredo in his opening, in his introduction. Mr. Ramos-Horta, we are very, very pleased to have you here.

When you speak, believe me, we do listen. So, please take the

floor.JOSE RAMOS-HORTA, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL

COUNCIL OF THE TIMORESE RESISTANCE, 1996 NOBEL

PEACE PRIZE WINNER, AND PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE, UNITED NATIONS, EAST TIMORESE INDEPENDENCE

FORCES

34

Mr. RAMOS-HORTA. Congressmen, first I would like to thank you

very much for your initiative in holding this hearing. I thank all

your colleagues for receiving us here today, to you particularly for

your many years of support to the people of East Timor.

I would like to start by saying, emphasizing how important the

U.S. Congress has been over the years in attempting to right the

wrong, the tremendous wrong that was done to the people of East

Timor. If ever we, over the years, felt disappointed or loss of hope

because of the indifference of the world community, every time we

came here to this building, to the many offices, we went back with

renewed hope. Do not underestimate the strength you gave us. Do

not underestimate the influence you have in shaping the events in

Indonesia and in East Timor. It is thanks to you, to Members of

Congress, both Houses, that we have come this far.

I was in Aukland in the midst of the worst crises in East Timor.

As I watched CNN and watched President Clinton’s statement,

live, which was seen by hundreds of millions around the world,

when President Clinton said what basically amounted to an ultimatum, the Indonesian side must invite, and he emphasized the

words ‘‘must invite’’ the multinational force to East Timor to restore order and security. I felt that, that was going to be a passing

of wills between the President of the United States and the Indonesian army leadership. There is no way that the West, the authority of the U.S. President could be discredited. In conversation with

my President over the phone, he was still under house arrest in Jakarta. I said, there is no way the U.S. can allow the U.S. President

to be discredited because that was an ultimatum. True enough, 2

days later, 3 days later the Indonesian side, which had said repeatedly, emphatically for many days, that it would not invite a multinational force, did indeed invite a multinational force.

The multinational force is there in East Timor. My point is that

whenever the U.S. Administration, the Congress wishes to provide

leadership, be it in East Timor or elsewhere, things happen. In saying this, I want first to express my most sincere gratitude, our

most sincere gratitude to the President, to the Administration, to

you for your leadership that has turned things around in the last

few weeks.

With the multinational force on the ground, the situation is improving day-by-day in terms of the security level. The Independence of East Timor is now a matter of fact. There is no turning

back the process that took us 500 years, during Portuguese rule

and, of course, the last 23 years.

However, an East Timorese Jesuit Priest, was telling me in the

midst of the worst crises in East Timor, he was in hiding in the

darkness of the night, talking on a mobile phone. He was telling

me, you will return to a country of widows because of the extraordinary level of killing in East Timor.

President Xanana will be going back in the next few weeks. He

will go back and all of us will go back to a thoroughly destroyed

country. The first pictures I have seen of East Timor, in the last

few weeks, reminded me of those black and white pictures of Europe devastated in the wake of Nazi’s Occupation. This is the country we will go back to.

35

The country has been thoroughly destroyed: Tens of thousands of

people displaced, tens of thousands forcibly removed from their

homes into West Timor where they are hostages of the military and

the militias. Let us not mistake, these displaced persons are not

being held by some unknown entity somewhere in the jungle, somewhere in the world. They are being held in Indonesian territory, in

an action that is condoned by the state. An institution of the state,

the army, which is supposed to defend the country from external

threats—or to protect its citizens, is, in fact, an instrument of hostage taking, of state terrorism. Not satisfied with the destruction

in East Timor, the killings in East Timor, they take along tens of

thousands who are held against their will in West Timor, and there

are thousands more elsewhere in the country. The Indonesian authorities have the ability to return these people.

They have the ability because whenever the pressure was there,

they made even more difficult decisions. I started my comments by

saying that when President Clinton stood up and said, they must

invite the multinational force, they did invite them. An invitation

of a multinational force was unprecedented in Indonesian history.

If anything went against all the public discourse, if anything

goes against Indonesian so-called nationalism, that was the invitation of the multinational force. He proved that there is an authority

in Indonesia. That when they want, they can make policies. They

can make decisions.

Then why are they not making a decision to disarm the militias

in West Timor, to allow the United Nations’ High Commission for

Refugees, the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, her office dealing

with refugees, NGO’s, and humanitarian agencies to provide assistance to the people in the camps, and return them to their homes

in East Timor?

It is not happening because there is no will in Jakarta to do so.

They have proven that when the pressure is there, they can deliver. We appeal to you, Members of Congress, to use your utmost

influence, together with the Administration, to secure the early return of the East Timorese in West Timor and elsewhere in Indonesia to East Timor.

I would like also to say that never once in our history of 23 years

has anyone heard from our public discourse any word of anger, or

racial, or ethnic hatred toward Indonesia. Never once in 23 years

of the Timorese Resistance has any one single Indonesian civilian

been killed by the East Timorese Resistance, even though 200,000

East Timorese were killed by the Indonesian army. There was

never reprisal.

There were never soft targets for the Resistance. Despite all of

the wanton killings of the last few weeks, and our repeated statements of moderation, flexibility, we continue to hear, to see, a continuation of violence, of provocation, of impunity by the Indonesian

side.

In spite of all that has happened in the last few weeks, President

Xanana, met with the Foreign Minister of Indonesia. I must maybe

preface this particular event by saying the following. When I personally met President Clinton just over a week ago, and with Secretary of State Albright last week, I said, my mood toward the Republic of Indonesia today is similar to the mood of the Jews toward

36

Nazi Germany after World War II, or similar to the Kuwait is the

mood of the Kuwaities toward Iraq after the destruction of Kuwait.

This was only to say—do not expect us to try to think about even

engaging the Indonesians in dialogue. That was our emotion, but

at the same time we realize that we cannot choose geography. Together, President Xanana and myself, we went to see the Indonesian Foreign Minister Alatas. We had a constructive, fruitful dialogue with him the other day.

We hope that the new Indonesia that is in the process of being

shaped, following the elections, will be able to repair the damage

it has done to itself, to East Timor, receive the olive branch that

Xanana Gusmao and all of us have extended to them. One condition for that is a gesture of good will on their part, to return all

East Timorese forcibly taken to the other side.

As far as our relationship with other countries of the region, we

are deeply grateful to Australia for taking the burden, the leadership of the multinational force. The Australian people, as a whole,

have been on our side, as have many other countries around the

world, but also has been—as the former colonial partner of East

Timor—has shown an extraordinary commitment in standing up

and living up to its historic and moral responsibilities.

What we see here, Members of Congress, is a truly universal

movement in support of a small nation. Maybe the tragedy of East

Timor will turn out to be an inspiration and a strength for the

United Nations, for the world community, to be always inspired to

come to the rescue of small nations, no matter where they are.

When it comes to human rights, there is no domestic jurisdiction

of states. When it comes to human rights, there are no boundaries.

We are all part of this community of nations. Human lives are as

valuable anywhere, be it in Asia, be it in Africa, Europe, or Latin

America. So, what the multinational force is doing, they are all of

the United Nations, is indeed in response to these very sacred principles of the universality of human rights.

I thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Ramos-Horta, thank you very much for your

powerful words and your leadership. I understand that both of you

will have to depart at 3 p.m. I will restrict my comments or questions to just a few of those that I would hope to have asked. Hopefully, we can get through the entire panel.

I do want to concur and reiterate what you said about the Australian commitment and how grateful all of us are that Australia

stepped up to the plate, and was really earnest to provide protection for those innocent civilians who were being slaughtered.

I think it is good that we all recognize Australia again and again

because no one else really was doing the job until they took the

lead. Let me ask you about peacekeeping. We keep hearing militia

leaders in West Timor who are making public threats to mount an

armed insurgency into East Timor to provoke what they call a civil

war.

Are we doing enough? Is the international community doing

enough, Indonesia doing enough, is to mitigate that threat? Second,

will you just tell us what is it that the international community is

doing right? More importantly, what needs improvement right

now?

37

I remember, Mr. Ramos-Horta, when you met with me—and I

am sure you met with many other Members of Congress on both

sides of the aisle—during a visit months ago and warned of the carnage that you felt was imminent if the right steps were not taken.

Regrettably, insufficient numbers of people heeded your call. What

now do you see that we need to do forthwith in order to preclude

additional misery?

Mr. RAMOS-HORTA. It is as a first step, and it is crucial, that

pressure is there on Indonesia. We have seen that there is an authority, whatever it is, that when the crunch comes, when their interest is at stake, they respond. We are certainly obviously very,

very pleased. with the leadership provided by the Secretary of

State, who made a very forceful statement on Sunday with regard

to the refugees, the displaced persons in West Timor and with the

visit by the Assistant Secretary Julia Taft to the camps in West

Timor. For us, the absolute priority at this stage, beyond the security situation in East Timor that needs to be stabilized, is the safe

return of the refugees, the displaced persons in West Timor.

It is also absolutely necessary that INTERFET be deployed more

expeditiously. So far, less than half of all of the forces committed

to INTERFET have been available and have been deployed. We are

pleased with the roll of the Australian command. We are pleased

with the progression, but we hope that other countries make a

greater commitment.

We were pleased to hear, to read in today’s news that the United

States has committed an additional number of personnel to

INTERFET, now numbering about 500 from the initial 200 committed. We are very grateful for that. On the other hand, it is necessary that U.S. leadership, the United Nations’ transition administration in the territory be established as soon as possible, because

there is a total breakdown of services in the territory.

However, we must also emphasize that as the U.S. and the

United Nations’ transitional team design and execute the transition authority in East Timor, they do not lose sight of the fact that

there is an organization, the National Council of Timorese Resistance, which led the people for 23 years, and under the flag of the

National Council of Timorese Resistance, the people voted massively for independence.

We view the transition in East Timor as a partnership between

the East Timorese Resistance led by our leader, Xanana Gusmao,

and the international community. We are pleased with the statements by the U.N., that the U.N.—led transition in East Timor is

not going to be a colonial situation, relationship, between the U.N.

and the East Timorese people, but rather a partnership.

Mr. SMITH. Ms. McKinney. Thank you very much.

Ms. MCKINNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am humbled to be here with these very brave witnesses. A generation ago, men in Washington, D.C. decided that the East Timorese should not be free. That access to oil and winning the Cold War

were more important. Twenty-five years later, 200,000 East Timorese have been killed by massacre, torture, and starvation.

U.S. policy has supported the continued violation of the rights of

the people of East Timor. Since 1975, the U.S. has supplied more

than $1 billion worth of U.S. weapons to Jakarta. Even until last

38

week, our Government continued to provide support for the Indonesian military.

Mr. Chairman, mass murderers, torturers, and ethnic cleansers

should never be our friends, but in East Timor, in Latin America,

in Africa, sadly, that is our legacy. Saying, I am sorry, is not good

enough. We must be a part of the correction of the problems of the

wrongs of the past.

To our witnesses, I would just like to pledge that I will be a part

of any movement in this Congress to help set right the things that

this Government, over the years, has done wrong. An independent

East Timor will have to struggle for self-sufficiency and we should

be there with you, with our hearts, our heads, and most importantly with our money.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Ms. McKinney. Mr. Faleomavaega.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Mr. Chairman, I realize in the essence of

time that our good friends have to leave. So, I just want to say that

it is a deep and a tremendous honor for this Committee to have received Mr. Gusmao and Mr. Ramos-Horta, to listen to their eloquent statements. I have so many questions I wanted to ask, but

I realize the shortness of time. All I can say, Mr. Chairman, is that

as someone who comes from the Pacific, I feel a close kinship with

these two gentlemen and the outstanding leadership that they have

demonstrated to the fine people of East Timor.

It is a miracle that these gentlemen are still alive. But maybe

in a later time period, we will have them testify before this Committee to learn more of their experiences and the brutality of the

Indonesian military. I suspect these 200,000 East Timorese that

died were killed were by M–16 rifles, not by AK–47’s.

It is a sad legacy of our government, given the fact that our country sells more military equipment than any other nation in the

world. This is something that should be taken into account in the

formation of our foreign policy both in the short and long term.

This is the kind of results that we produce. Again, I am honored

to receive our two friends representing the good people of East

Timor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Delahunt.

Mr. DELAHUNT. I would just echo the sentiments expressed by

my colleagues. On behalf of all of us, let me just simply say thank

you for your example. Thank you for your courage. You have done

much, not just for East Timor, but you have done much for America with that courage and with that moral authority, and being so

clear, and forceful, and powerful in terms of your words, and particularly reminding us that human rights have no boundaries. It

does not involve geography. It involves all of us.

Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Delahunt.

Mr. Goodling, the gentleman from Pennsylvania.

Mr. GOODLING. I would like to point out that we have a misconception in this Country quite often. We call it peacekeeping missions. Often times, they are nation building missions and we cannot nation-build. They have to do that from within.

I happened to be there in East Timor in 1977. I saw a lot of

slaughtering that was not being done by outside. I saw slaughVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00041 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
39

tering that was being done inside with three factions. Unfortunately, I also saw the Portuguese leave, as they usually did, leaving the situation in very difficult straights, having done nothing

really to help the East Timorese during the entire time they were

there.

My concern is now, I guess, have the three factions joined together? Are they working together? As I said, at that time, in fact,

it was not the safest thing. I was young enough to be foolish to

come in at that particular time. But the three factions, at that particular time, were certainly killing each other.

I might ask personally, then also a young chap that I spent time

with, at that time, Lopez DeCruz, is he still living? Is he still working toward peace? What has happened to him? Again, we can only

help nations if they, themselves, pull together. I would hope that

we do not have those three factions. Those three factions, I suppose, allowed the Indonesians to come in and do what they have

done ever since.

That is the end of my statement. I do not know whether there

are any responses to particular a question or two. If we are first

in arms, then the French have to be close behind. They do not care

where they send them, just so they get money.

Mr. SMITH. I know our two witnesses have to leave, but if you

wanted to respond or make any final statement before this Subcommittee, again, we are honored to have you here.

Mr. GUSMAO. [Via Interpreter.]

Ms. INTERPRETER. Mr. Chairman, Members of Congress, ladies

and gentlemen, thank you for this opportunity and for the warm

words of solidarity you have expressed to us. We are indeed a tiny

people, but you are listening to us.

Congressman Goodling, we recognize our weaknesses, the weaknesses that we had 25 years ago. They are now lessons to all of us,

and they were a major lesson to our people who struggled for 25

years and tried to resist and survive just because they had the

right to self-determination. That same right is now recognized by

the whole world, by all of the international community.

We all learned from our mistakes. This one has been inside me,

with me, for the past 25 years. It is in my mind. I thank the Congress and I thank the people of the United States of America for

giving us this opportunity.

We need your help and we need your assistance. But we are also

sure that with your help and assistance, as politicians, as a body

which decides on issues which influence the whole world, we are

sure that with you, we will build a new East Timorese nation,

based on values such as democracy, justice, and human rights, the

very same values that have shaped the Nation of the United

States.

Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. No words can really add to that. That was a wonderful vision. Thank you. I would point out to my colleagues that we

are going to take a 3- to 5-minute recess, as our distinguished witnesses depart. Then we will invite the third panel up.

I do hope that Members will stay on because we have three experts who will speak to the issue in our third panel. Thank you.

We are in recess for 5 minutes.

40

[Recess]

Mr. SMITH. The Committee will come to order.

Our third panel consists of Mr. T. Kumar, who is the Advocacy

Director for Asia and the Pacific, for Amnesty International U.S.A.

Next, we will hear from Mr. Arnold Kohen, President of the Humanitarian Project and author of ‘‘From the Place of the Dead: The

Epic Struggles of Bishop Belo of East Timor’’.

Our next witness on East Timor is a former investigative reporter with NBC News. Allan Nairn is a widely published investigative journalist who focuses on U.S. foreign policy in overseas

operations. His coverage of the November 1991 massacre of East

Timorese civilians by the Indonesian military won numerous journalism awards. Formerly banned from entering Indonesia, Mr.

Nairn has twice been arrested by the Indonesian military, including earlier this month in East Timor. After significant international pressure on his behalf, the Government of Indonesia deported him approximately 10 days ago.

Finally, Emilia Peres was born in East Timor, and, at the age

of 14, fled East Timor with her family. For the past 15 years, Ms.

Peres has been an international advocate for the plight of her people. She has appeared before the U.N. Commission on Human

Rights on behalf of the people of East Timor, and is a Board Member of the East Timor Human Rights Center. Ms. Peres currently

lives and works in Australia. We are very grateful that she is here

as well.

I would like to begin first with Mr. Kumar, if he would begin his

testimony.

STATEMENT OF T. KUMAR, ADVOCACY DIRECTOR FOR ASIA

AND PACIFIC, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL U.S.A.

Mr. KUMAR. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for inviting Amnesty

International and for holding this important hearing at this crucial

time. The reason why I mentioned crucial is that there is a general

feeling that since peacekeepers are moving in, everything is fine

and well in East Timor and to the people of East Timor.

Other reports show that things are not so fine. Still East Timorese in West Timor and other parts of Indonesia, including Jakarta,

Bali, and other places, have been harassed and abused by the Indonesian military and the militias. I would like to draw your attention to that issue, Mr. Chairman.

When I was listening to the hearing testimonies during the last

2 or 3 hours, I was taken aback by the enormous responsibility

that human rights organizations and people like you who are in

power carry to protect and promote individuals who have been

abused, and killed, and slaughtered in large numbers with total

impunity. We, as an organization, have been working on abuses

around the world for the last 38 years. This is the first time we

were compelled to issue an urgent action. That means, it is a crisis

situation that we alerted 1.1 million members around the world

that the whole population of East Timor was in danger or fear of

being killed or abused.

In that note, we can certify to you that the abuses that occurred,

until the international community put its act together, was beyond

41

belief even to organizations like us who monitor abuses around the

world. We are grateful that President Clinton took a strong step,

but we wish that he took those steps at least a week before.

If he would have taken the same steps, at least a week before,

we could have saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives. We could

have saved children who are left orphans today. We could have

saved thousands who were forced to be kidnaped to West Timor.

This may be a lesson that we all have to look back.

When there is a crisis, when there is slaughter going on, act immediately, whether it is your friend or foe. The history of East

Timor tells us only one thing. That tragedy did not start 2 months

ago or 6 months ago. In 1975 when the Indonesians invaded, 1/3

of the population was wiped out.

The entire world, including ours, Mr. Chairman, kept silent. It

is OK to keep in silent to some extent, but they were rewarded

with military training and weaponry. Our corporations lined up to

profit from the natural wealth of that country, looking the other

way of the abuses that is being perpetrated against innocent civilians.

If history says anything to us today, one thing we have to learn

is never, never keep silent whenever there are abuses. Indonesian

military got this courage and strength to slaughter with total impunity ever since they slaughtered half a million to a million Indonesians in the wake of coup-de-ta.

It was looked upon as an anti-Communist issue and the world at

large. Especially our Country kept quiet. That was the mistake

that was made. We are seeing a country which has the military

which has been used to abuse its citizens for the last 30 years. The

victory, so-to-speak, that we are seeing today is not totally the victory for East Timorese.

It is a victory for Indonesians. Indonesians are the people who

suffered most. They were the people who were slaughtered under

this military, for total impunity, for 35 years; Aceh, Irian Jaya,

even Java, there are seven political prisoners still in prison in Indonesia; Gudiman and six other people.

They have been completely and conveniently forgotten by everyone. When I met with Gusmao yesterday, I asked him how is

Gudiman doing, even though I do not know him. I just asked him.

The answer was, he is taking the lead now. Gusmao is taking the

lead to make sure that these people are released.

So, in a nutshell, what we are seeing today is a victory for the

Indonesian people and justice to the Indonesian people if the International War Crimes Tribunal is setup. On that note, Mr. Chairman, I would like to bring to your attention what was brought to

us from London this morning, that Jakarta may not accept the tribunal that is going to be setup.

If it is true, then the Clinton Administration and you, in the

leadership positions, have to make a very strong and clear statement and stand against this international institution that is going

to be formed.

In closing, for Amnesty, the people of East Timor have been very

close to us ever since their suffering started. In 1974, we had a

major campaign called, Free the Coats of Suffering and Terror in

East Timor. This is the report we published.

42

In fact, Gusmao is being portrayed here with his picture. I also

would like to urge you to include my full statement in the record.

Thank you, again, Mr. Chairman. Amnesty International is pleased

to testify.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kumar appears in the appendix.]

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Kumar for your excellent statement

and for your strong appeal. Your full statement will be made a part

of the record. The full statements and any addendums by all of our

witnesses. Thank you.

I would like to ask Mr. Kohen, if you would proceed.

Mr. KOHEN. Mr. Chairman, excuse me for getting here late. I

wanted to make sure that I was able to speak with Bishop Belo to

send a special message to the Committee. He just arrived now in

Portugal from Germany. When I finally reached him and I told him

I was coming here to testify, he said, what is your message?

The message is that the Clinton Administration, the Congress,

all of the political parties in the United States and all of the candidates should be united behind the goal of ending the violence in

East Timor and making sure that the East Timorese people and

the churches there are able to rebuild.

That is exactly the message I would like to send. Please tell them

I would like to come there myself when I have an opportunity, and,

for the moment, if you could convey certain things for me. I intend

to make a very brief extemporaneous statement. I will have a

slightly longer one for the record.

I spoke with Bishop Belo just before his house was attacked on

September 6th. At that time, he was, as he always is, skeptical

that there would be such a full scale assault on his residence. It

had never happened before. He was quite surprised that such a

thing would take place. He is somebody who hates exaggerations.

To illustrate this point, the bishop had even said that the attack

on the Diocses the day before was not actually an attack on the

heart of the Diocses, it was an attack on the garage. So, despite

threat of an assult, he remained at home. I said, are you going anywhere? He said, where could I possibly go? I have 4,000 people taking refuge here. He said, I cannot just go running around.

What ended up happening was that militias with actually a

handful of Timorese forced to go in front, led by Indonesian special

forces, came into the bishop’s home and started shooting. Six young

men who live in his compound gathered around to protect him from

harm. Militia accomplices told him, sit down. But the Bishop refused.

The reason that he refused to do so is because, and I (will hold

this bloody photo up) is what took place during the Liquica Church

Massacre in April of this year. What happened there is that people

were told to sit down and they never got up: They were essentially

massacred. So on September 6, the Bishop just got up, walked out

of his office, walked out the front gate, went to the police, insisted

on protection. The next day he left East Timor because he knew

that he had to go and speak with the Pope in Rome and tell him

about this and other things.

Essentially, the last barrier had been broken. I had stayed in the

Bishop’s house on a number of occasions. This was one place where

people could go for refuge. This was one place where you would not

43

see these kinds of assaults. It did not make what was going on outside any nicer, but at least people felt some security that they

could go there.

This ended on September 6th. Quite unfortunately, I have to say

that when the Liquica Massacre took place, there were certain

communications made to this Administration by people in Congress, by people in churches. The response that they got back, particularly from people in the Pentagon was, if we restore military

aid to Indonesia, perhaps we will have more influence on them.

Unfortunately I think what happened as a result of that is that

Indonesian military people, and I have this from a number of

sources, I am a trained investigative reporter. I used to work for

NBC News, I have it from a number of sources that the way that

the Indonesian military interpreted this message from our military

is that, in effect, what had happened in Liquica and what these militias were doing, rather quietly out of the view of television cameras and reporters in the countryside of East Timor, was of no

great consequence to the United States.

Effectively, that led not only to the assault on the Bishop’s house

and the assault on the ICRC, but also the assault on East Timor

as a whole. I am somebody that over the years, and I have to say

this because I think that there are witnesses here with me today

that would attest to this, that I have not been automatically one

who would have said in the past, let us cut all aid.

Sometimes communications between our military and the Indonesian military have proven to be useful. After the Santa Cruz

Massacre, for example, and on a few other occasions. But on this

occasion, that did not work. It simply did not. This relationship

was abused. I really feel that something more could have been

done.

As Mr. Kumar just said, a lot more could have been done to dissuade the Indonesian military. I think that even, until recent days,

they did not quite get it. I think that there was a sense that they

would pay no great price for what they were doing I think that

what took place in recent weeks, and indeed the killing of church

workers the other day, might have been prevented.

I happened to have known the Italian Sister who was killed and

the Timorese Sister who was killed. These people were delivering

aid to people in the countryside. They had hurt nobody. Militias instigated by the Indonesian army just started shooting. They have

done it in other places, not only to religious workers, and not only

to Catholics. Others have been threatened. Just yesterday, I received a communication from religious Sisters in Australia who

were in touch with the Sisters in Timor. They said the militias

right now, that is as of yesterday, were given license, they said, by

elements of the military to go around and start killing priests and

nuns.

I do not know if this will happen. I sure hope it does not. I think

that if we put enough pressure on the Indonesian military, maybe

it will not come to pass, but this is the type of atmosphere I think

was created by trying to restore military aid to Indonesia after

something like the Liquica Massacre took place.

44

I will end my statement there and take any questions later.

There is a lot more to say, but that is the essence, I think, of what

I would like to communicate.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kohen appears in the appendix.]

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Kohen. I appreciate your

work. You mentioned Bishop Belo. I would just say for the record,

Joseph Rees, our Staff Director and Chief Counsel, was actually in

the church when the announcement was made that Bishop Belo

had received the Nobel Peace Prize, which certainly was a great

moment. Thank you for conveying his thoughts and sentiments to

the Committee, and, by extension, to the American people. Mr.

Nairn.

ALLAN NAIRN, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, NBC NEWS

Mr. NAIRN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have had a lung problem that flared up. So, it is a little difficult to talk. It is a special pleasure to be here today, having been

in the same room with Xanana and Jose Ramos-Horta, Kumar,

Emelia, and Arnold Kohen, who is a tireless campaigner for human

rights.

Today, as we are meeting here, Dili is in ruins. Half of Timor is,

in effect, held hostage. They are finding the remains of decapitated

bodies, as AFP reported yesterday. They are finding police file

photos of dead torture victims with their hands bound behind their

backs.

Uncounted thousands of Timorese are still in hiding, surviving

on roots and leaves. General Wiranto’s militias are threatening further terror. Yet, this is a great day because East Timor stands on

the brink of freedom. It is hard to imagine really. They said it

could not be done.

Back in December 1975, when the Indonesian military began

consulting with Washington about a possible invasion, they promised that they could crush Timor within 2 weeks. General Ali

Mortopo came to the White House and met with General Brent

Skowcroft. President Ford and Henry Kissinger went to Jakarta

and sat down with Suharto.

Then 16 hours later, the invasion was underway. The paratroopers dropped from U.S. C–130’s. They used new U.S. machine

guns to shoot the Timorese into the sea. In 1990, when I first went

to Timor, the Intelligence Chief, Colonel Wiranto confirmed that by

that time, their operation had killed 1⁄3 of the original population.

On November 12, 1991, when the troops marched on the Santa

Cruz Cemetery, they carried U.S. M–16s. They did not bother with

warning shots. Amy Goodman and I stood between them futilely

hoping to stop them from opening fire, but they opened systematically and they kept on shooting because as the National Commander, General Swtcisno, explained, East Timorese are

disrupters. Such people must be shot.

That was army policy. That is army policy. At no time during

these years of slaughter, did the U.S. Government’s executive

branch ever decide that the time had come to stop supporting the

perpetrators. President Carter and Richard Holbrook sent in OV–

10 Broncos and helicopters. Presidents Reagan, Bush, and Clinton

sent in weapons, multilateral financing, and sniper trainers. But

45

now they say circumstances have changed. President Clinton has

announced a military cutoff. There is even a Clinton doctrine under

which the United States will intervene to prevent mass slaughters,

like genocides, pogroms, and ethnic cleansing.

In recent weeks, commentators have criticized the U.S. for failure to intervene. For not sending in foreign troops fast enough to

stop the Indonesian army’s final burst of Timor terror. Mr. Chairman, I want to make the point today that intervention is not the

issue.

The Clinton doctrine, and the questions flowing from it, do not

apply in Timor or Indonesia because the killing is being perpetrated with the active assistance of the United States. The U.S.

is not an observer here. It is not agonizing on the sidelines.

It has instead been the principal patron of the Indonesian armed

forces. The issue is not whether we should step in and play policeman to the world, but rather whether we should continue to arm,

train, and finance the world’s worst criminals. I think most Americans would say, no, we should not do that. I know that many in

Congress, from both parties, would agree.

As of this moment, U.S. policy is still, the temporary cutoff notwithstanding, to restore as soon as possible its support for the Indonesian armed forces. On March 3, Admiral Dennis Blair, the U.S.

Commander-In-Chief in the Pacific told Congress that the Indonesian armed forces was the main instrument for order in Indonesia.

He was speaking, as he and the world knew, after 34 years of

army terror, which has claimed perhaps a million Indonesians and

200,000 East Timorese. In most people’s eyes, such violent behavior

is the antithesis of order. But for the U.S. Executive branch, it has

been the basis of a policy.

In dozens of countries, unfortunately, the U.S. has chosen to use

killer armies. From Guatemala City, to Bogota, to Beijing it has

embraced the enemies of freedom. But today in Timor, we can rejoice because, for once, that policy has been defeated. In Jakarta,

Surabaya, Medan, on the streets of the fourth largest country in

the world, brave Indonesian students and working people are demonstrating against the army.

They demand that it get out of politics. That it dismantle its

feared police state. They are risking their lives for real democracy.

The United States should be on their side, but it is not, Mr. Chairman, at least not yet. That is why we are here today. Congress

needs to act to reverse the fundamental course of U.S. policy.

The bill, H.R. 2895, which you and others are backing, is a good

start to ending support for terror in Timor, but Congress needs to

go further in at least two basic respects. First, the cutoff should be

conditioned not just on Timor issues, but also on an end to Indonesian army terror everywhere.

The army should not be able to win back U.S. support by choosing new targets. Severe repression in Aceh, West Papua New Guinea, and elsewhere is already underway. Congress should not be

supporting it simply because the army has finished with Timor.

Second, although this cutoff may be the most comprehensive ever

attempted, there are still many lines of support for TNI and the Indonesian national police that the legislation does not cover. Last

46

year, there was an uproar in Congress when it was disclosed that

the Pentagon’s JCET Program was training the army in urban

warfare, syops, and sniper techniques.

Congress, like the press and public, had thought that military

training was cutoff when Congress canceled Indonesia IMET training to Indonesia after the 1991 Dili Massacre. Today, it is again

the conventional wisdom that the U.S. no longer trains the Indonesian military, and that U.S. material support for TNI is now at

a token level.

It is indeed the case that due to public pressure, a bipartisan coalition in Congress has cut many lines of support, including bans

on small arms, armored vehicles, and the use of U.S. weapons in

Timor, and the cancellation of deals for F–5 and F–16 fighters.

It is also the case that contrary to Congress’ understanding with

the executive branch, the U.S. has, through 1999, been intensifying

its links with TNI, even as Timor militia terror and repression in

Aceh have escalated. It is also the case that there are many complex lines of support for Indonesia’s armed forces that, to this day,

remain largely unknown to even the most engaged Members of

Congress.

For the past 5 months, I have been in Indonesia and occupied

Timor trying to investigate these lines of support. It would take

many hours to lay out the facts in detail. I will just mention a few

brief examples to give an idea of the scope of the problem.

A couple of weeks ago, I reported in The Nation magazine on internal Pentagon cables, classified cables, issued 2 days after the

Liquica Massacre, which Arnold so graphically described, that horrific church massacre in which the militias backed up by uniformed

troops, went into the church, in the rectory, and hacked dozens to

death.

Two days after that meeting, the senior U.S. uniformed officer in

the Pacific, Admiral Dennis Blair, sat down with General Wiranto,

the Indonesian commander. Blair had a mission from the State Department and others to tell Wiranto to shut the militias down.

In fact, as the classified cable summarizing the meeting in great

detail shows, Blair did the opposite. He offered Wiranto new U.S.

military assistance. He offered to join Wiranto in lobbying the U.S.

Congress to reverse standing U.S. policy to get the IMET military

training restored.

He offered Wiranto the first new U.S. training program for the

Indonesian security forces, since 1992. This is a crowd control and

riot control program that was focused on precisely the unit that 2

days before had helped stage the Liquica Massacre. He even invited Wiranto to be his personal guest at his quarters in Hawaii.

Wiranto and his people were delighted by the meeting. They took

it as a green light to proceed. I can now report to the Committee,

Mr. Chairman, that there was an additional meeting after the

Blair-Wiranto session, which had perhaps even more significant

implications.

This one took place on July 14th in Jakarta. It involved Admiral

Archie Clemens, the Commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet. Admiral

Clemens came in to make a presentation to Senior ABRI leadership, including the Naval leadership.

47

Now, at this time, the militia campaign was in full swing. The

Liquica Massacre had happened. The assault on Dili had happened. This is the assault in which the militia staged a rally in

front of the Governor’s office. It was broadcast live on the official

state radio station, Radio Republic Indonesia. Enrico Gutierrez, the

militia leader, stood up and issued a public death threat against

the Carrascala ̃o family.

The militias then proceeded to trash the Carrascala ̃o house,

killed the son of Manuel Carrascala ̃o, killed dozens of refugees who

were hiding in the rear of the house, rampaged through Dili, shooting people on-sight. This all happened after a ceremony that had

been presided over by the Indonesian occupation Governor and

General Zacki McCarrum, the Indonesian military coordinator of

the militia operation, as I will discuss in a minute, a long time protege and trainee of U.S. Intelligence.

This was after the Dili rampage, after countless other militia

killings. On July 14th, Admiral Clemens came into Jakarta. According to Indonesian officers who were present, and according to

Admiral Clemens’ own presentation notes for the meeting, he offered the officers an increase, a step up in the U.S. military relationship with Indonesia.

He said, ‘‘Reengagement is crucial to maintaining the U.S.-Indonesia relationship.’’ He referred to the Siabu Range in Medan,

where Indonesia had given the U.S. rights to stage air-to-ground

firing exercises, and he made a politically crucial proposal. He proposed that in Surabaya, at the Indonesian Navy Eastern Fleet

Headquarters, training facilities be established for the U.S. military.

Anyone who follows Indonesian military politics knows that there

are few hotter issues than the prospect of U.S. military bases in

Indonesia. Some in the military are for it. Some are against it. It

is a highly charged issue. Here, Admiral Clemens was going to the

military leadership and proposing what he called ‘‘possible training

sites’’ to train U.S. troops directly in an ongoing permanent basis

on Indonesian soil.

Admiral Clemens went so far as to say that the U.S. goals for

the Asia-Pacific Region depend on maintaining our strategic partnership with Indonesia. This, at a time when the State Department

and the White House were publicly threatening to cutoff the Indonesian army because of the militia terror and the terror in Aceh.

He then went on to urge the Indonesian military to, as he put

it, ‘‘Maintain access to advanced technology.’’ He specifically was

talking about new large scale purchases of high tech electronics

which would allow the Indonesian navy to integrate their command

and control and surveillance facilities directly with those of the

U.S. Navy.

He went on to discuss, in some detail, the FDNF IT–21 installation. These are U.S. Naval electronics, which he was urging the Indonesian military to link up with. If you would like, Mr. Chairman,

I could make available to the Committee some of the slides that the

Admiral presented in this meeting and some of the Admiral’s own

notes.

Mr. NAIRN. As this was going on, and as the militias were rampaging on the streets of Dili, the U.S. was continuing to ship in

48

ammunition to Indonesian. Last year, Representative McKinney,

the Chairman, and others made a special effort to try to cutoff the

influx of U.S. ammunition and spare parts. At the time it did not

succeed.

This year, we could see the consequences. A few weeks ago, as

Dili was burning, and as the U.N. evacuated, as foreign journalists

had left, I had the opportunity to be, one of the last foreign journalists, left on the streets of Dili.

I was walking around in the early morning going from one abandoned house to another. You could hear the militias coming around

the corners with their chopper motorcycles. They would fire into

the air and honk their horns as they were about to sack and burn

another house.

You also found littering the streets hundreds upon hundreds of

shell casings. They came from two places. One from Pendad, the

Indonesian military industries which have joint ventures with a

whole list of U.S. companies, and the other from Olin Winchester

of East Alton, Illinois.

These cartridges had been recently shipped in to Battalion 744,

one of the territorial battalions in Timor, and then issued to the

militiamen. As you can see from these photos, they come in the

new white Olin Winchester boxes, 20 cartridges to a box. These

were among the bullets that they were using to terrorize Dili.

The units on the ground that were specifically running the militia operation included some of those most intensively trained by

the United States. This includes Group 4 and Group 5 of

KOPASSUS, BRIMOB, the KOSTRAD Infantry Units, the individual officers coordinating the militia operation, including General

Zacki Mckarrim, Admiral Yost, Nanko, General Shafri Siamsuden,

Colonel Wudutomonegroho, who was the on-the-ground coordinator

for the militias in the initial months of their operation.

They are all graduates of U.S. IMET and Intelligence training.

I will just end by citing one dimension that I would suggest Congress look into. Many in Congress believe that they have cutoff

U.S. training for the Indonesian military and police. As far as I can

tell, that is not the case.

There are several other training programs going on, besides

IMET, besides JCET. Admiral Sudomo, the long-time Chief of

Suharto’s Secret Police, a man who was presented with the Legion

of Merit by the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, told me, in a series of

on-the-record interviews, that for years the CIA has been providing

intelligence training to intelligence operatives from the Indonesian

armed forces. He said that this training involved 10 to 15 Indonesian officers, per year, who were brought over to the U.S. for a

2- to 3-month intelligence course. He said that as he understood it,

this training continues to the present.

Last year, when I was arrested by the Indonesian armed forces

and interrogated, the man who was interrogating me, who identified himself as Major Dodi Wuboa, at the end of our interrogation

session, he leaned over to me and said, ‘‘I am a member of U.S. Intelligence’’.

I said, ‘‘What do you mean? What are you talking about?’’ He

then went on to describe in detail training that he said he had received at the Cheeputat Police Camp in Jakarta and in Quantico,

49

Virginia. As Wuboa described it, this training involved instructors

from the FBI, DEA, and CIA. It included a training in subjects

such as indoor pistol technique, surveillance, and interrogation.

Over the ensuing year in speaking to many Indonesian and U.S.

officials, I have finally been able to confirm all the key elements

of Wuboa’s story. Indeed, there has been ongoing training at

Quantico. Indeed, the FBI, to this day, has its own special training

program for the Indonesian police.

Many are brought to the FBI Academy. Others receive training

onsite in Indonesia, often in intelligence and weapon handling techniques. There are several different strands of so-called anti-terrorist training. Just 1 month ago, according to U.S. military

sources in Jakarta, a U.S. Intelligence team was due to come in

and provide what they call counter-surveillance training to the Indonesian security forces.

The Pentagon has been providing new advanced equipment to

IMIA, the Indonesian Military Intelligence Agency, including special radios for use in operations in Irian Jaya West Papua. There

is a whole strand of links involving training and material supply

that is not even covered by the Pentagon, not even covered by the

relevant legislation dealing with the Pentagon.

It involves the FBI, CIA, the DEA, Customs, and the U.S. Marshals. It is a very intricate series of connections. According to Indonesian police documents I have seen, their recent training includes

explosives and explosive countermeasures. According to a former

chief of the SGI, that is the Special Intelligence Unit in East Timor

who I spoke to, the KOPASSUS has received training from U.S.

Special Forces troops in techniques including the assembly of explosives.

What this colonel, this SGI colonel’ claimed was torture resistance. These are sessions in which he said torture techniques are

discussed and practiced, to a certain extent, on trainees. The theory

being, if you get caught by the enemy, this might happen to you.

So, you ought to know what the techniques are. He said that this

training was not very impressive to the KOPASSUS, since they already knew all of the torture techniques. He even claimed, he even

gave me the names of some individual KOPASSUS officers whom

he said had died in training as these counter-torture techniques

were practiced. He said it was a part of the curriculum that the

U.S. forces had given.

I will stop there. One more thing, one more interesting side note.

Even as the militia terror was rising to its height, there was another strand of training going on involving what you might call localization or privatization. A number of Indonesian police and intelligence officers were being sent for training with individual U.S.

police departments.

One crew was just up at the New York City Police Department,

the NYPD Police Academy, just about a 11⁄2 months ago. I know

contacts have been made with the departments in Virginia and in

California as well. These training sessions are technically not

under the auspices of the State Department or Pentagon.

Apparently, they are arranged with the help of the local CIA station in Jakarta, and, they say, with approval from State Department officials in Washington. A related type of training is hapVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00052 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
50

pening right now at Norwich University in Vermont where, at this

moment, at least nine KOPASSUS, special forces soldiers, are

being trained. This is a program that was set up with assistance

from the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency. Again, it is not technically under the current State Department or Pentagon umbrella,

but it is yet another way in which the U.S. Executive branch manages, by hook or by crook, to provide support for the Indonesian

armed forces.

The short answer to what has the U.S. role been with the Indonesian military in the months of the militia terror, it has been

deep. It has been extensive and many key officials have been attempting to intensify it. I believe it should stop. I believe that

many in Congress have clearly shown the will to stop it.

It is a matter now of tracking down all of these lifelines that run

into Jakarta. It takes a lot of work. Then it takes going around and

systematically cutting them off one-by-one because that is the only

thing that will work.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much for your extensive testimony.

You just may find it of interest, on a recent trip to Jakarta when

I met with our U.S. military attache, I had two of your articles. I

had all of those documents as well. When I shared it with him and

with others in the embassy, he just dismissed it completely.

You had pointed out the training of KOPASSUS and the allegations, which the record clearly bears out, of their use of torture

against innocent people. He also said that the JCET’s Program had

been looked at by human rights organizations and had been given

the green light, to which I said, ‘‘name one. Give me the names of

the organizations’’. I got nothing but a vacant and blank stare. We

do thank you for your investigative work. I would like to ask Ms.

Peres if she would present her testimony.

EMILIA PERES, INTERNATIONAL ADVOCATE FOR THE PEOPLE

OF EAST TIMOR

Ms. PERES. Thank you.

I just wanted to say, first of all, the reason why I am here in

America, my company—is my own part of a technical team. Before

I came here, I was in Jakarta. About 2 month ago, I went to Jakarta to help in development plans for East Timor. We were thinking that everything was going all right and we were preparing for

the ballot and then what was coming after the ballot. Unfortunately, after the ballot and after the warnings, not only of my leaders to the international community, to UNAMET itself, I remember

speaking to members of UNAMET in Australia, asking them what

would happen after the ballot. Would forces be in place after the

ballot because we felt it was very dangerous period, and this period

after the ballot to the Phase III.

We were told, do not worry. We will be there. We will not abandon the East Timorese people. Unfortunately, we all know what

happened. So, after the ballot and after the announcement of the

results, the destruction started to happen in East Timor. I stayed

behind in Jakarta to actually help the other East Timorese who became targeted by the Indonesian special forces and some militias.

51

At the beginning it was like a number of people started to contact us to ask for protection to get out of the country because they

were harassed. It started with some of the leaders. In our limited

way, we managed to get them out of the country. Then students

started to come to us. Then the list started to increase.

So, after awhile, not long, within a week, we had about 700 people registered with us. That was myself and another two Timorese

in the team. I started to put the list together. Within about 2

weeks, the list went up to 2,000. We knew we could not help. So,

we started to approach embassies. We started to approach the

United Nations High Commission for Refugees for them to do so,

the Red Cross, because people started to seek refuge in private

homes, seeking refuge in convents, religious orders, and NGO’s for

protection. But even so, they did not seem to actually get the protection they were seeking. We took upon ourselves to actually plead

with governments to see if we could evacuate these refugees.

My leaders before already attacked on the issue of the refugees,

not only in West Timor, but those ones that were in other islands

of Indonesia. The reason why we concentrated on the other islands

of Indonesia was because we felt that at least we could help those

people, because in West Timor access was very hard, especially for

people like us.

The international community themselves could not actually access the concentration camps while I was there. That was mid-September when I was still organizing the beginning of this evacuation. When I actually came out, when I was called to come out

from Jakarta and come here, we were at the stage where the

United Nations’ High Commission for Refugees were already in the

process together with UNAMET representatives, the Red Cross.

They were all trying to help and a lot of the embassies in Jakarta. We got the green light from the Indonesian Government that

our people could get out of Indonesia, but we needed to organize

transportation, etcetera. So, we did that.

Unfortunately today, it is already about 10 days after, nothing

has happened. The people are still there. I keep in constant contact

with them. The situation is becoming worse. People have moved

from house-to-house. My own group, when I was in Jakarta, we

were already on the fifth hotel because every time we got detected,

we felt we were not secure anymore. We had to move to another

hotel.

Then the colleague that I left behind is now in the sixth hotel

because the other hotel was recently, there were demonstrations.

New faces started to hang around the hotel and they felt, they got

information that any time they would have been discovered. The

responsibility they covered was just too big.

At that time when I spoke to her, we already had 3,500 people

on our list. Now, these people are mainly students that were in Indonesia before the voting, as well as workers, people who were living in Indonesia, studying in Indonesia, and with the voting, they

became exposed.

The students actually undertook the campaigning. The workers

came out from remote villages in Indonesia, itself, to the main centers where there was the polling booth for voting. So, they were exVerDate 11-SEP-98 12:06 Jun 15, 2000 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00054 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 63316.TXT HINTREL1 PsN: HINTREL1
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posed and now they were targets. Houses have been ransacked in

there.

Death threats have been given to our people. At the moment, I

believe that there is not, the people on our list, not one single one

of them that is living openly. They are actually in hiding. Now,

some people, for example in Bali, they were hiding in the church

grounds. We were told that even the Bishop’s house, and this is not

the Timorese Bishop, the Bishop in Bali, was visited by the head

of a military.

He was questioned, how many Timorese went through the house?

How many stayed? Nuns were becoming nervous about housing

Timorese. Some individual families that gave some protection to

the Timorese families became also nervous because after there

were people, Indonesian people, dressed up in civilian clothes, but

you could clearly tell that they were from either TNI or

KOPASSUS, questioning the families.

Where is this person? Where is this family? They keep coming,

once, twice, three times. At the fourth time, the Indonesian families, themselves, could not handle it anymore and would ask the

Timorese family, could you please find another place? They used to

come to us seeking our help to find alternative accommodations, alternative refuge.

On the 26th of September when I rang Jakarta, I was told that

in South Jakarta there was a center, a training center named K.V.

Paulry in Selanbeck. There were 20,000 people being trained there.

They consisted mainly of soldiers from East Timor, Indonesian soldiers, some members of the militia groups, ITARAK and

BESIMERAPUTI, and some other 2,000 East Timorese that were

forced, the ones that they took to West Timor, then the young

males. Two thousand of them were taken to Jakarta to this training center to be trained. Apparently, the aim of the training center

was to actual train these people as militias so that they could go

back to East Timor from West Timor to fight against INTERFET.

However, when the militia army had agreed that the force could

withdraw from East Timor, so we were told that they changed their

objective, their aim.

Their aim became to actually hunt all East Timorese in Jakarta,

Bandung, Sulatiga, Dimpatha, and Surabaya. To target all of them.

We were also told that this is their plan, to actually, they called

it Clean-up Operation. To clean-up all of these Timorese in Indonesian. When I was there, I was actually worried myself because

I am also a member of the CNRT and we were evacuating nearly

all the CNRT leadership, but I was still there.

One of the Timorese people who has contact links with the Indonesians, I asked him have we got, the plan was to be taking place

from the 17th of September onwards because they were planning

when the multinational forces landed in East Timor, that is when

they will start their operation in other parts of Indonesia.

I was asking him, what was his analysis of the situation. Did we

really have enough time or not to plan my own existing of the

country. He said, look, as soon as the forces land, it will be dangerous. Just keep low. However, we may still have some time.

However, no Timorese should be hanging around in Indonesia from

the end of October onwards or before the MPR, the decision.

53

I asked why? He said, because they are going to clean-up. However, before they clean us up, they will clean-up the other people,

their own people inside, people inside the house. I did not really

understand what that meant. Later on I got the list of people who

they were, they had a list of people who they were going to kill

first.

On that list the names of people like Francisco Lopez DeCruz,

Rouie Lopez, all those pro-integration people high up were listed on

that list because they just knew too much. That was after Mrs.

Mary Robinson had visited Jakarta and spoke about this business

about international war crimes. When she announced that, we

were told that the military had a secret meeting and that is when

this list was drawn up to clean-up these Timorese who knew too

much.

If you ask me where are these Timorese, you will find out that

quite a few of them, at least Francisco Lopez, Rouie Lopez, and

Clemente Normeral are already out of the country because they

accessed this information. They went out. These are pro-integration

people.

Pro-independence people, it is taken for granted that they will be

cleaned up. On the 16th of September, three were killed in Jakarta

itself, three workers. Now, they do not spare anybody. I met one

of the young boys. His name was Julius. We call him Julius of the

lost generation because he was one of those Timorese who went in

the early 1970’s or should I say late 1970’s.

They took them out to Indonesia and they were brought up as

Indonesians. So, they do not know their parents. They do not know

their families. Around the voting time, we found all of these Timorese and they were all brought back for the voting. They actually

joined the pro-independence group.

Julius’ house was ransacked. So, now Julius is actually living in

hiding. When his house was ransacked, they left threatening notes

to say that if you do not leave, we will drop a grenade into your

house. These are people like Julius who actually lived there for the

last 20 years or led very much Indonesian lifestyles. Julius is even

a Muslim.

In Jakarta, we use some embassies to actually escort our people

to the immigration point so that we can actually get out of the immigration without being stopped and face problems. I, myself, was

escorted out by an embassy there. The problem is that the embassies are also being not yet targeted, but noticeable.

Some of these embassies have already asked us and said, look,

we cannot keep carrying on helping you because otherwise we will

be noticeable. You have to share. Go to other embassies and ask

the other embassies to take your people out because they will notice.

For example, they are still in an embassy in Jakarta. We cannot

even access that because a part from the demonstrations in front

of the embassies, there is also militia people, plus the police just

hanging around there to try to identify with Timorese are coming

with passports to get visas to get out.

One day while I was actually trying to get some people out of the

country, I sent this boy to the embassy. I was not even aware of

what was happening. The poor boy actually delivered the passports

54

to the embassy, but then had to actual get into a taxi and run because the other guys actually came after him. So, he had to go

around Jakarta for quite awhile before he made them lose trace of

him.

This is the situation in Jakarta. Meanwhile, we also, because we

were there, were starting to get phone calls from Timorese all over,

even outside and abroad asking us to locate their families in West

Timor. We started to do that. So, before the 23rd, or on the 20th

of September, a friend of ours, a religious person, went and visited

West Timor, mainly Kupang.

He actually sent me a report. I am just going to read bits and

pieces out of this. He says here that, OK, like for example, in West

Timor, to obtain protection, shelter and food rations, many families

have to pretend to be related to the militia and pro-integration faction.

The city is teaming with refugees, and police, and soldiers from

East Timor. He says, in the outskirts of Kupang and even further

away, there are refugee camps that are in pitiful conditions. Journalists are discouraged to enter and the entrances are swarming

with belligerent men wearing militia-like clothes.

Taking pictures is very risky. In some camps, the militias just

enter and go around searching for young men and Timorese leaders

during the day and even at night. Members of the militia and special forces are hunting down persons who can be potential witnesses in the pending war crimes investigation of the United Nations.

Other Timorese are also running away from those who are forcing them to join the militia. There are all of these things happening in East Timor. The situation is very bad. I will not take any

longer so that you can ask any question.

So, thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Ms. Peres, for your excellent

testimony and for the great work you have been doing. I do have

a couple of questions. I think we will be getting to a vote very

shortly. So, I will ask one or two and then yield to my colleagues,

just so that we are sure to get everyone’s questions in.

It seems to me that there may be one big subterfuge underway

with regard to the militias trying to deceive the world, that somehow this is some indigenous force that just rose up spontaneously.

Where the truth probably is more accurately to say that this is an

Indonesian army orchestrated effort, very carefully master-minded

and planed out, going right to the very top, right to Wiranto.

Regrettably, much of the media coverage has been that this is

some local uprising that just systematically kills people. I’m interested in your comments, Mr. Nairn. I did ask the Administration

witnesses earlier. We had invited a Department of Defense spokesman and Assistant Secretary. For whatever reason, they were unable to be here.

We will reinvite them to ask very specific questions. I did read

to Secretary Koh and Secretary Taft excepts from your Nation article where you point out that Blair, rather than telling Wiranto to

shut the militias down, instead offered him a series of promises of

new U.S. assistance. You just added to that, talking about Clemens

and the July 14th meeting.

55

Hopefully, that whole game, that brinksmanship, will be put to

an end soon, if not today. We will see that it is the Indonesian military, first, second, and last that has been a part of this, and the

day we want to turn off the killing fields, it will happen.

It suggests, I think, to all of us—and maybe you want to respond

to this—that we need to be much more aggressive in cutting off

IMF loans, cutting off assistance of any kind. Absolutely cutting off

military assistance until all of the abusers of human rights, and

killers, and murderers, whether it be in KOPASSUS or anyone

else, are vetted and held to account and justice is meted out to

them.

Perhaps you would want to speak to that, any of our witnesses?

Mr. Kohen.

ARNOLD KOHEN, PRESIDENT, THE HUMANITARIAN PROJECT

Mr. KOHEN. I would like to say that Bishop Belo issued about 10

or 15 warnings in this year alone. One after another they were

transmitted through church wire services. They were transmitted

to the Congress and each and every one of them was ignored by

the highest levels of the Clinton Administration. Bishop Belo would

say time and again, you have to tell the Pentagon, have the American Bishops tell the Pentagon.

They would tell the Pentagon, but with little effect. The Pentagon would come back with some nonsensible story. Really, at this

stage of the game, there is a pattern. The pattern is that the Indonesian military felt that what they would do would be without any

consequence. What we are seeing now are the chickens really coming home to roost.

It is very sad. The only way that this could be stopped is if the

Indonesian military understand that this is going to cost them and

it is going to cost them big time.

Mr. NAIRN. Yes, I completely agree with that. I think you are absolutely right, Mr. Chairman, that this is entirely controlled from

the top. Two weeks ago, when I was arrested by the military on

the streets of Dili, I was held at the Korem Military Headquarters.

That is the main occupation headquarters for all of East Timor.

The Headquarter’s general is Kiki Shianoqueri. It is called the

Committee for the Restoration of Peace and Stability. That was the

martial law authority in Timor. The entire back half of the base

was filled with uniformed Aitarak militiamen with their black

Aitarak t-shirts and their read and white headbands.

You would see them leaving the Korem base on their motorcycles

and their trucks, holding their rifles and pistols to go out and stage

their attacks. I asked one of my interrogators there, Lieutenant

Colonel Willum, are those Aitarak guys in the back there? He said,

‘‘oh, yes. They live here. They work out of here’’.

‘‘We have them here so we can control them’’, he said. They do

indeed. I was later brought over to Polda for interrogation. That is

the main Dili Police Headquarters. At Polda, it was the same story.

In the operations room and the intelligence room, you would see

the uniformed Aitarak men going in and out. That was where they

worked out of.

Then the following day when they flew me back to West Timor,

for further interrogation, it was on a military charter. Aside from

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my two military escorts, the rest of those on the plane were uniformed militias, some of whom I recognized from the streets of Dili

as being some of the most threatening characters. They had their

guns, their rifles on the plane.

These were actually all members of police intelligence. My military escorts explained to me that they were being rotated back

after having served their 1-year tour. These were the militiamen.

Incidently, for those who say that Wiranto does not have control,

that is nonsense.

The only official, under the current organizational structure, the

only official to whom both the military and police report is Wiranto.

Military and police involvement in running these militias. Only a

total cutoff will send the strong message has been extensive.

Mr. SMITH. Again, I think it should be stressed in the strongest

terms, this Subcommittee, and particularly this Chairman, has

tried repeatedly to get information from the Pentagon. We have

written extensive letters to the Pentagon and have gotten back

zilch in terms of the questions that we have raised.

When we do get answers back, they are not all that enlightening.

The Pentagon does answer to a chain of command. That goes right

to the White House. That goes right to the Commander-In-Chief.

I mean, we do have a chain of command. Congress appropriates

money and authorizes programs, as we all know, and exercises

oversight.

The clear line of authority goes to the White House. Now, Blair,

Clemens, and all of these others—on whose behalf are they carrying these messages? The President of the United States? Secretary Cohen? We need to know where the buck stops here as well.

As you said, Wiranto certainly can say yes or no to these activities. How much complicity do we have? How many mistakes have

we made as a country with regards to this? Mr. Kohen.

Mr. KOHEN. One important point, I was told by someone on the

Senate side the other day that as they were considering a bill on

the Foreign Relations Committee, there was someone from the Defense Department going around talking about sea lanes, how important Indonesia is. Granted, they are.

But the notion that the Indonesian military can prevent the

United States of America, prevent our fleet from using those sea

lanes is absolutely ludicrous. This is something that is told to people who do not know anything and just get scared very easily by

the slightest bit of information that seems to be wrapped in national security terms.

The fact of the matter is that the Indonesian military has to be

told, in no uncertain terms by our military, that is behavior is unacceptable and it has to be cleaned up completely and totally. The

notion that they would even try to engage the United States of

America, try to stop us from using those sea lanes is so ludicrous,

it is to be unimaginable.

Mr. SMITH. I appreciate that insight.

It seems to me the moral equivalent with Wiranto and the Indonesian military is like us aiding and abetting Milosevic and the

Bosnian Serbs. There needs to be an accountability. That is where

the War Crimes Tribunal comes in, going wherever those leads

may take one, to hold to account those who have killed.

57

Mr. KOHEN. What really scared me was the events in the weeks

that the Liquica Massacre took place, then the attack on the

Carrascala ̃o house, in Dili by Indonesian-led forces at the time that

the Irish Foreign Minister was there. A lot of people were killed

in Liquica. Pilio Manuel Carrascala ̃o’s son, who I happened to have

met when I was there in March, who was basically an aid worker.

He was an 18-year-old kid. He was killed. They slashed him, I believe, as a way of sending a message to Manuel Carrascala ̃

o and

to former Governor of East Timor, Mario Carrascala ̃o, who had

been the Indonesian Governor, that you people are turn-coats. You

are going to pay for this.

What scared me was this was the height of the war in Kosovo.

At the very moment that the Pentagon was talking about humanitarian considerations in Kosovo, they were effectively backing Indonesian forces in East Timor. I really was worried about that discrepancy because that type of signal seemed to say to the Indonesians that they are living on a different planet than Milosevic.

That whatever they do, it is fine and dandy. Milosevic is just in another world.

Mr. DELAHUNT. Would the Chairman yield?

Mr. SMITH. I would be happy to yield.

Mr. DELAHUNT. I find this testimony astounding, absolutely astounding. I would encourage the Chair of this Subcommittee to

communicate with the Department of Defense in a way that is very

clear and unequivocal, and I know I speak for myself as one member.

I would be happy to, sign a letter requesting that members of the

Department of Defense come forward and explain themselves. I

think that is absolutely essential, given what we have heard here

today.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Would the Chairman yield?

Mr. SMITH. I agree, Mr. Delahunt. Now, Mr. Faleomavaega.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. I want to associate myself with the statements made earlier by my good friend from Massachusetts. A petition, a letter, or even a subpoena to have officials of the Department of Defense to come and testify about what we have just heard

from these gentlemen and our good friend the lady, Ms. Peres. I am

going to reserve my time for questions, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Mr. DELAHUNT. I think it is very important not just to have Mr.

Koh here, but I think it is incumbent upon the U.S. Government

to bring before Congress those army personnel, from whatever

branch they may be, who have served, who have been in those

camps so that they can be inquired of as to what they observed.

As I said earlier, I think you heard my remarks, Mr. Smith, this

is deja vu all over again, as Yogi said. I do not think that we want

to have on our hands the responsibility of being criticized in a report that was done under aegis of the United Nations that demonstrated, in rather very clear terms, that the genocide that occurred in Columbia, we did nothing about. I am very, very concerned about what I have heard here today.

Mr. SMITH. Just reclaiming my time.

I appreciate the gentleman’s comments. Just to reiterate for the

record, we did invite the Department of Defense to be here. We

wanted to ask a series of very specific questions of them. We will

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do so and re-invite them to give an account. In the past, our efforts

which have been bipartisan, have been unavailing.

Cynthia McKinney and I have tried repeatedly to get this information on collusion with KOPASSUS, training them in urban guerrilla warfare. We were raising issues when Indonesians were being

killed in Jakarta. I went over there, along with Mr. Rees, within

the same week that Suharto passed the baton, however involuntarily, to Habibie, and raised these questions with the military

command, with our own Stapleton Roy, who was then our Ambassador, and a number of others, including Habibie.

So, it is a major problem. We have got to get to the bottom of

this rotten situation.

Mr. NAIRN. Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Delahunt’s suggestion is

very important, if you could actually get some of the uniformed officers here and question them under oath. The only response I know

of is that Admiral Blair did do a Pentagon press briefing.

He was asked specifically by the press about my Nation article,

and about the cables, and so on. If you read the transcript, he did

not deny anything. He did not deny the authenticity of the cables.

He just, in essence, said, everything I do is consistent.

‘‘My message is always consistent’’. He referred to his conversation with Wiranto as a private conversation. It is not private. He

was there representing the U.S. public, the U.S. taxpayers. There

is the full transcript of the discussion in the cables that you can

look at. I think he was probably correct in saying he is consistent.

The problem is the message is consistently a bad one.

Mr. SMITH. To the best of your knowledge, were Blair’s promises

to Wiranto conditional? If you back off, if you get out of there, we

will give you more?

Mr. NAIRN. They were not conditional in shutting down the militias. I can search for the exact language. It was something to the

effect of, we expect that you will continue to make progress toward

democracy in Indonesian, that kind of thing. But he, at no point,

even though the State Department had urged him to do this, said

you must shut down the militias.

This was 2 days after Liquica. He did not even raise Liquica. I

mean, you could not have had a more graphic, shocking moment.

He later had a follow-up phone conversation with Wiranto because

people at the State Department were so upset, they sent an eyesonly cable to Jakarta saying, this has to be corrected.

The same thing happened in the phone conversation. That phone

conversation was then immediately followed by the Dili rampage,

the attack on the Carrascala ̃o house and so forth. One point I want

to make about the constant Pentagon argument. The argument for

training is, when you train officers it gives you access to them. It

teaches them good values and so on.

Those arguments are summarized in this cable. This is a cable

from Ambassador Roy to SINCPAC. This happens to be a 1996

cable. I will give it to the Committee and I would urge the Committee to——

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Mr. Chairman, will that be made a part of

the record? I would like to request that it be.

Mr. REES. I have to ask a question here, I am sorry. Is that an

unclassified cable?

59

Mr. NAIRN. Yes, it is. This one is unclassified.

Mr. SMITH. OK, we can take unclassified things into the record.

Mr. NAIRN. It makes all of the arguments about how when we

train officers they get good values. They rise in the ranks. Then to

clinch the argument, it cites examples of the best and the brightest

of the Indonesian officers who have been trained by the United

States.

These are the examples they cited: General Faisel Tungung, who

became the Commander-In-Chief of the Indonesian armed forces,

one of the most notorious hard-line repressive officers.

General Hendrill Priono, one of the legendary authors of oppression in Indonesia who was involved in Aceh. He is the man who

commanded Operation Clean-up in Jakarta, prior to the 1994

APEC Summit. This was the operation in which they swept

through the streets, picked up street vendors, petty criminals, prostitutes, and executed many of them, according to human rights

groups.

Colonel C. Honding, a long-time Intel man who became Deputy

Chief of the secret police.

Brigadier General Agus. Actually, he has a less egregious human

rights record than the others. His main distinction is he has bought

a lot of U.S. weapons for the Indonesian military.

Then their final example of the best and the brightest is General

Prubowo, the most notorious of all the Indonesian officers. Also,

one of the most extensively U.S. trained officers, famous for his

personal participation in torture in Timor, West Papua, Aceh, for

the kidnappings last year in Jakarta. I will let you read what they

say about Pruboa.

These are the examples they use to say that when we do training, these officers become instruments of U.S. policy. I take them

at their word when they say that. The problem is it is the wrong

policy. The careers of these men that they have chosen illustrate

that.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much.

I am looking forward to reading that cable. It will be made a part

of the record. Ms. McKinney.

Ms. MCKINNEY. Yes. I think we all are looking forward to reading the cable. I just find it outrageous that we can have witnesses

come from East Timor and Australia, and we cannot get the DOD

to come across the street to respond to these very important questions.

This is not unlike a similar situation that I experienced when we

tried to hold a hearing on Rwanda, 1 million people dead. We had

witnesses come from Africa, come from Asia, but the State Department could not come across town to testify either.

Everybody clams up when we start asking questions that nobody

wants to answer. It is no wonder that this Government would be

against the international criminal court because they would be perpetual defendants at it. There is an evil strain in our international

conduct from assassination, to destabilization, to fomenting war.

That is our legacy around the world, particularly with people of

color. There is an evil strain in our conduct. The American people

do not even know what is happening. Congress is lied to. I am wondering how high up does this go? Who is the one that is giving

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Blair and Clemens their orders? Is it directly from the White

House?

I am also wondering if we got witnesses from the Administration

to come here on this particular issue, we would have State Department tell us one thing, DOD tell us another thing. They can come

here and tell us just about anything, unless they are compelled to

tell the truth and there is a penalty for them lying to us. So, under

what circumstances can we get them here with a penalty, if they

do not tell us the truth?

Mr. SMITH. Are you asking me?

Ms. MCKINNEY. Yes.

Mr. SMITH. The Full Committee has the power to issue subpoenas, although we could do it as well. We could put witnesses

under oath and there would obviously be a penalty if they lied

under oath. What has been the problem in the past is that we get

evasive answers or no-shows.

Again, we get excuses, sometimes they are plausible, as to why

they could not be here. For example, DOD suggested that they are

all very busy with Secretary Cohen’s trip to Indonesia as we speak.

So, I mean there is some plausibility to that.

Ms. MCKINNEY. Pat, we do not even know what message he is

going to be delivering when he gets there.

Mr. SMITH. But it has been an ongoing stall to this Subcommittee

with regard to the training of KOPASSUS. Again, Mr. Nairn’s previous, writings which I used and circulated to U.S. embassy officials in Jakarta officials. It was met with eyes opened by several

of the people. By the military attache and others. It was like nonsense. So, it is very, very troubling and beguiling.

Ms. MCKINNEY. Mr. Chairman, we, through the work of these

witnesses, have some very real evidence. I do not think we need

to let the Administration off the hook on this one. I think we need

to do anything and everything that is within our power to get to

the bottom of what is going on.

Mr. SMITH. You might recall, if the gentle lady would yield, Secretary Taft, earlier in this hearing, suggested that we write up our

questions and submit them to the Department of Defense. Secretary Taft has a very responsible, very strategic position as head

of PRM, and Secretary Koh, is the Clinton point person for the Democracy, Labor, and Human Rights. I mean, these are very responsible people. They should know. They should want to know, and

should want to get to the bottom of any complicity inclusion with

the Indonesian military themselves.

Mr. KOHEN. I feel compelled to read into the record something

from U.S. News and World Report last week because the question

was how high up does this go in our Government?

Ms. MCKINNEY. Yes.

Mr. KOHEN. I am reading to you from the bottom of this piece.

‘‘While acknowledging the danger of more massacres, President

Clinton dismissed comparisons with 1994’s genocide in Rwanda.’’

In East Timor he said, ‘‘Not everybody has a machete.’’ It says here

at the end of the U.S. News Report here, ‘‘For those who have already felt the blade’s edge, and for those who will be cut down in

the days to come, that thought is cold comfort.’’

61

The kind of language that was used from the beginning, Sandy

Berger comparing East Timor to his daughter’s messy college room.

President Clinton saying not everybody has a machete. These are

two of the top, National Security officials in this Administration.

So, where does the buck stop?

Ms. MCKINNEY. Obviously, it stops with them. That is appalling.

Mr. KOHEN. I mean, this is the kind of language they are using.

This is the tone that is being set.

Mr. NAIRN. My understanding of the political role the White

House plays in this is that for years the Pentagon, the State Department and the CIA were unanimous in lock step in supporting

Suharto and in supporting the Indonesian military. It was a very

deep institutional commitment from all of them.

Then after the 1991 Dili massacre, as public pressure increased,

and as Congress and many of the members here got involved in the

issue, there were some changes in U.S. policy. There were various

weapons cutoff and various training programs cutoff. Within the

past, say, 6 to 8 months, that pressure from Congress finally did

start to affect State Department policy. Better late than never, but

it did.

Some people, like Ambassador Roy, were quite resistant. He remained one of the old-line Suharto supporters. But others in the

State Department did start to change. The Pentagon, however, has

continued to pursue the old line. Therefore you have incidents like

Admiral Blair just sluffing off the State Department’s directive to

him, policy directive to tell Wiranto to shut down the militias.

I point out the White House’s role in this. Of course this is the

American system, as opposed to the Indonesian system where

Habibie is completely powerless to stop the militias, if he wants to.

I think Habibie would like to stop the militias, but he is only the

President of Indonesia. Wiranto is the one who holds the strings.

Here, the President is in charge.

If Clinton wanted to, he could bring Admiral Blair and Admiral

Clemens in line in a second. But he sees this and chooses to let it

play out. It is a familiar, we have seen it in many other places, a

two-track policy where you have on one track the public admonitions, all of those great words from the State Department, and occasionally from the White House itself. On the other, track you

have the Pentagon going in and doing business with the training,

the weapons, and the so on. That is Clinton, and Berger’s, decision

in the end. They have to be held accountable for that, but first it

has to be exposed. There is a false debate going on now.

This is kind of a diversionary debate where people are saying,

was Clinton too slow to act in backing an international peacekeeping force? Should we do more to intervene? That is not the

issue here. This is not a case like with Milosevic.

When you are talking about Milosevic, you are not talking about

someone whose killers are armed, trained, and financed from

Washington. Milosevic got his backing out of Moscow and other

places. You cannot blame the Pentagon, and the CIA, and the State

Department for Milosevic, at least in terms of backing his killer

forces, but you can in the case of Indonesia. It is not a question

of the U.S. failing to intervene.

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It is a question of the U.S. all along having intervened and continuing to intervene on the wrong side, backing the perpetrators.

That is an entirely different matter. We have to be clear about

that. It is much worse, but it is also much easier to stop. You do

not have to invade Jakarta. All you have to do is pull the plug.

Mr. KOHEN. One thing of relevance, as this is the Human Rights

Subcommittee. In June 1997, Bishop Belo met with President Clinton and Sandy Berger in Sandy Berger’s office. President Clinton

said we will try to be more helpful. Bishop Belo was happy about

that meeting.

When he got back to East Timor, within a couple of weeks of that

meeting, near the Salesian Training School in the eastern part of

the territory, there were a number of young people who were detained. Bishop Belo said specifically, please tell the White House

about this.

I did convey this information to the White House in writing. I

also conveyed it to Congressman Frank Wolf and Tony Hall who

are very involved in this. Frank Wolf wrote a number of letters to

the White House about this situation. People in the White House

said to me, what is there to these Wolf allegations?

But the indication that I had is that they never did anything

about the allegations themselves. They were more concerned about

Frank Wolf’s letter and his persistence, than they were about the

specific allegations. I went back to Bishop Belo about this information. Of course, other things had taken place in the interim. It was

not entirely clear what had finally happened to the detainees, but

what we did know was that a lot of people had been picked up during that period.

This situation is described in the first couple of chapters of my

book. It is very disturbing when you have a situation where the

Clinton Administration is more interested in trying to prove a dedicated man like Frank Wolf Wrong or Tony Hall Wrong than in

doing something about the situation. Hall and Wolf were partners

in all of this. This is bipartisan. This is not a partisan issue. But

some in the White House were more concerned with proving Mr.

Wolf Wrong than they were about pursuing human rights issues.

Ms. MCKINNEY. Mr. Chairman, I will allow the other members

to ask their questions, but I do want to register my outrage. I do

not know how to do it.

Mr. SMITH. You are doing it.

Ms. MCKINNEY. I want to do it on the record.

Mr. SMITH. Again, this will be part of the series of hearings. This

is not the end of it. We will continue this inquiry very aggressively.

Mr. Faleomavaega.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I do have some questions, but certainly I would first like to commend our speakers or witnesses this afternoon for their very eloquent and profound statements. I was interested to hear from Mr.

Kumar, who gave a sense of historical perspective about what had

happened to the good people of East Timor.

I seem to be the only one always knocking on the door. I always

equate East Timor with West Papua New Guinea for the simple

reason that these people, the 100,000 West Papuans, were likewise

murdered and slaughtered by the Indonesian army in 1963 under

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Sukarno. Then when Suharto came into power after the coup, that

was in 1965, after proclaiming that they needed to get rid of the

Communists, he continued the subjugation of West Papua.

There were approximately 3 million people in Indonesia as communists, supposedly, resulting in the killing, genocide, and murder

of hundreds of thousands of Chinese, and another half a million Indonesians that were also slaughtered in the name of fighting communism.

In 1969, the United Nations took an infamous act to recognize

the military occupation of Indonesia of West Papua, letting only

1,000 people, with the barrel of Indonesian guns to their heads,

vote on behalf of 800,000 West Papuans to associate themselves

with Indonesia.

Then, another Indonesian military occupation happened in 1975,

in East Timor. So, for 25 years, Mr. Chairman and our good friends

here, our military through the Department of Defense has been associating with the Indonesian military, as has been indicated by

Mr. Nairn’s most interesting testimony. This is not something that

just happened 2 years ago.

This has been going on from the very beginning, even earlier in

the 1960’s. Why? Because our first, foreign policy was to get rid of

the Communists, containment, the domino theory. So, now even

after the fall of the Soviet Union’s Empire, we find ourselves in this

situation with a policy that continues. We continue to support military dictators like Suharto and Sukarno, no differently than what

we have done with Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somozou.

By the way, I understand Somozau was educated at West Point

Military Academy. What else is new? We have been doing this for

years. It is interesting and I commend you, Mr. Chairman, for taking the leadership in examining these affairs. I want to ask a question of our friends here.

Is it a cop-out to say another country’s problems are an internal

matter and within the sovereignty of that country to resolve, and

that we really have no business in getting ourselves involved?

That was probably one of our main pillars of our policy toward

Indonesia. Whether you are talking about Aceh, or East Timor, or

even West Papua New Guinea, they were all deemed internal matters. Now, at what point should our government change this policy,

saying it is no longer an internal matter belonging to that country?

We have got to do something about it?

Do you think East Timor is a good example to change this internal matter policy, which I think is hypocrisy, as we are not willing

to take responsibility to stop clear atrocities? I was just wondering

your thoughts on this?

Mr. NAIRN. East Timor is a special case since Timor was recognized by the United Nations as a separate territory, which was illegally invaded by Indonesia. The invasion was in defiance of two Security Council Resolutions. The U.S. had blocked enforcement of

those resolutions. As you have said, the U.N. played a very shameful role in West Papua and so legally did recognize the annexation

there in a way it did not done for East Timor.

That whole argument they make that it is an internal matter, it

is an irrelevant argument because the U.S. is already involved with

the Indonesian military. Through the IMET Program, more than

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3,000 officers were trained. At one point, through the 1980’s and

early 1990’s, a majority of the senior staff officers of the Indonesian

army had been U.S. trained.

The logistics of the Indonesian army are organized entirely along

U.S. Pentagon lines. It is U.S. military contractors who have given

them the electronics and the surveillance equipment. It goes on

and on. We are already involved, involved on the side of that repressive military.

Mr. SMITH. Would my friend yield? I am sorry.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Go ahead.

Mr. SMITH. I would ask, Mr. Faleomavaega, if he could take the

Chair. Mr. Delahunt, and I, all of us, we have back-to-back votes.

It is probably another 25 minutes or so. If you would take this

chair and ask whatever questions you have, but if we could yield

to Mr. Delahunt now so he does not lose his opportunity, and then

you come back and carry on.

Mr. DELAHUNT. Yes. I will be very brief.

I think that, Mr. Nairn, you are on the mark. I have to tell you

what today has really done is raised my concerns, not just about

Timor. This goes far beyond East Timor. This is about programs

like IMET, which I am sure we have supported.

What I am hearing is we have had this ongoing relationship with

the Indonesian military, but what are we teaching them? What

does the training consist of? It sounds to me like we are not even

putting forth democratic values, human rights. Those issues seem

to be absent from that training. Are we just simply teaching them

how to shoot guns? Is that what is occurring?

Mr. NAIRN. In some of the courses, they do have human rights

units where they say, you should not kill civilians. You should respond to civilian authority. The thing is, when the officers being

trained are members of a military dictatorship, which survives

through repression and which has an institutional policy of repression, it does not matter what human rights platitudes you tell

them because they are officers.

They are trained to follow orders. The more professional you

make them, the more skillful and able you make them at the job.

You make the situation worse because they are from an institution

that has a bad mission in the first place.

Mr. DELAHUNT. I understand that. It has become very real. One

quick question to Ms. Peres. You testified earlier about folks in

East Timor who are in grave danger elsewhere in Indonesia. Have

you communicated this to the U.S. Government? Have you given

names? Have you submitted names to any division or branch of the

Executive?

Ms. PERES. In here in America?

Mr. DELAHUNT. In America.

Ms. PERES. No. We have given it to the United Nations.

Mr. DELAHUNT. I would suggest respectfully that you provide the

Chair of this Subcommittee a list of those individuals. I am sure

the Chairman would, along with other members on the Committee,

forward that to the appropriate agency so that we can be of maybe

some value in terms of securing their personal safety.

Ms. PERES. Fine.

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Mr. DELAHUNT. I think obviously that should happen rather

quickly.

Mr. DELAHUNT. Again, let me say thank you to all of you. Your

testimony was very informative, and I think particularly you, Mr.

Nairn, since you have had the experience and was there as a firsthand observer. It really was not hearsay. You know, 99.9 percent

of the time when we hear witnesses, it is double, triple hearsay.

Out of fairness, we have to question the validity, if you will, of

that hearsay. But in your case, you saw it. You saw it first-hand.

I think that you have done a great service to your Country today.

Thank you.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. [Presiding] I thank my good friend from

Massachusetts for his questions and statement. We have all kinds

of opinions about the media, but sometimes I also say thank God

for the fourth estate of governance. Sometimes the Legislative and

the executive branches seem to have failed in their responsibilities.

To have Mr. Nairn, Mr. Kohen, Mr. Kumar, and Ms. Peres this

afternoon giving their testimonies has been a real education for the

members of this Committee. One of the questions that was raised

earlier concerned Mr. Gusmao and Mr. Ramos-Horta’s statements

categorizing these refugee camps as concentration camps.

Somehow, I seem to be getting a different indication from our

friends from the State Department. They keep calling them refugee

camps. Now, you and I know what a concentration camp is. Maybe,

Ms. Peres, if you could maybe elaborate a little further on the difference. My sense of what a refugee camp is that you have the humanitarian organizations from all over the world, the NGO’s, pitching in and helping out.

A concentration camp is literally like what we remember from

the holocaust. If that is the status that these refugees are currently

living under, then we really are not doing our duty as far as our

government is concerned. Secretary Koh from the State Department is going to be going there in a couple of days.

There seems to be a lot of shuffling of paperwork and visits, but

I am not hearing a greater sense of commitment and responsibility

on what to do with the militias that are watching these so-called

refugee camps. Can you comment on that, Ms. Peres?

Ms. PERES. I believe it is all right. Our people are in there as

hostage, really. They have been forced to go into West Timor. Even

now, only to say it, last night when I was speaking to my colleague

in Jakarta, she was telling me that now when they distribute rice,

this is for the people there, they are given two types of cards. One

red and one blue.

The blue card, the Timorese would have to say that they want

to stay in Indonesia, stay, become trans-migrant. The red card is

for those that want to go back home. But this is in another race

to identify those people who do not want to be there. Originally the

plan, the Indonesian plan, was actually to show to the world that

more than 200,000 people were supposed to have been voting for

the autonomy.

That is why they forced all these people to go into West Timor,

at gun point. I am not sure. I did not catch the earlier session

when my leaders were speaking, but when they, one of them mentioned that they killed a Nun and a Priest in Bacau, between

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Bacau and Los Palos, at the same time they found in the eastern

side of East Timor, 5,000 of our population about to be forced into

the votes to go to West Timor. That was found by INTERFET. That

was as recent as 3 days ago when the killed the Nun.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. So, 5,000 East Timorese are forced to go to

West Timor, and no one makes any reports or any accounts of this

as to their status, as to what happens with their separation from

family members.

Ms. PERES. The people in West Timor, according to the friend of

mine, the religious person that went into West Timor, there were

camps that you could not access. Some camps you can access.

Other camps, you cannot access. It is closed for you. There were

camps controlled by the Government and they made it in such a

way for visitors.

So that when you go there and visit, you think it is OK. Of the

people who live there, they have food. They have water. But other

camps, no food, no sanitation, nothing. It is really bad conditions.

We have had contacts with some of our people in there. They are

just waiting for help from the international community.

When I came out from Jakarta, the international community was

not accessing those camps. Yesterday, when I was at the World

Bank meeting, a member of UNPD said that they were about to go

into West Timor. Then I asked, do you know how many camps

there are? Are you going to assess all of them? They did not know.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. About how many East Timorese live in Jakarta currently?

Ms. PERES. At the moment, our list that is in Jakarta and other

islands.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Or just in the Island of Java or other places

outside of East Timor.

Ms. PERES. Outside of East Timor and West Timor, outside, we

had a list of 3,500. That is recorded only with us. By now there

should be more because some are trying to manage to escape from

West Timor.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. It is my understanding that top corporate

and business leaders currently that have a lot of wealth in East

Timor are also former military officers of the Indonesian army. Is

that correct?

Mr. NAIRN. Mr. Chairman, there is an estimate recently that

about 40 percent of the land in Timor is controlled by the Suharto

family and enterprises linked to that family. One of those investors

in some of the Suharto enterprises is Colonel Tono Suratman, until

recently the military commander for Timor.

With that said, especially now, that they have burnt the place

down, there is not a whole lot of wealth in Timor. It has been more

of a killing field than a place of business. As the Indonesian military exited, they made a point of destroying whatever they could.

There was a confidential memo that leaked about 2 months ago,

now, out of the Office of General Faisal Tunjung. Tunjung is one

of those IMET best and brightest that I mentioned. He is currently

the Minister for Politics and Security in the Habibie-Wiranto Government.

His ministry is in charge of coordinating the activities of other

ministries to bring them in line with army policy. In this memo,

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they described a plan for what they would do with Timor if they

lost the election. One of the points was destroy key facilities on

their way out.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. That is exactly what happened.

Mr. NAIRN. They have done that, to say the least. I mean, take

Dili, if you are someone who knows Dili and you go back now, it

is absolutely shocking. The entire central business district is burnt

to the ground. Entire neighborhoods are vacant. The Diocese, the

ICRC, the Bishop’s house are all gone.

On the relocations, refugees is certainly not the correct term, I

think, for the vast majority. Starting in the lead up to the announcement of the vote results, there were systematic operations

where uniformed police, uniformed BRIMOB, uniformed army infantry, and uniformed militias would go house-to-house and tell

people, OK, you are moving.

You are moving to Kupang. You are moving to Atambua. You are

moving to wherever we choose to take you. They were just forced

out of their homes, put on trucks and boats, and taken away.

[Witness is coughing throughout testimony.]

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Sorry, I do not have any cough drops to give

you.

Mr. NAIRN. When I was being questioned at Polda, the police

headquarters, it was kind of a chaotic scene there because they

were getting ready to shutdown and withdraw from Timor. They

were burning many of their documents. In the midst of that, I was

able to see a police intelligence document, which described an operation called ‘‘Hynerwene Lauro Sydua’’ in which they laid out in

detail how they would round up and relocate Timorese. This document, which was written about 2 weeks ago now, gave a precise

figure. It said 323,564 Timorese. That means nearly 40 percent of

the population that will be relocated pursuant to this program.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. What is the total number of the Indonesian

military forces, Army, Navy, and Air Force combined? Any figures

on that?

Mr. NAIRN. It was in the range 20,000 to 30,000.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Nationwide?

Mr. NAIRN. In East Timor, yes.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. No, I mean nationwide. The entire Indonesian army, what are we looking at?

[Witness unable to answer due to coughing spell.]

Mr. KOHEN. Congressman, as long as you mentioned about the

economic end of things, I saw something in Business Week, I think,

the other day saying that there is currently a coffee crop worth

tens of millions of dollars, most of which goes to Starbucks here.

It was actually one decent program of USAID where the East

Timor coffee has been bought for higher prices from local farmers

and ends up in Starbucks. It is quite good quality stuff. Anyone

who has been to Timor knows that this is some of the best in the

world. What it said in Business Week, however, is that this coffee

is not going to be picked this year because the military is destroying the crop, really out of spite. If is nothing else, we should try

to stop this destruction from happening.

I know if I were a Member of Congress, I would ask some very

hard questions about why this USAID-funded project is suddenly

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being sabotaged by the very people that we have been giving U.S.

military aid. This is one thing that should be on the table right

now so that at least the Timorese have the coffee to help their

economy recover.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. There were recent media reports, and I

wanted to know if this is accurate in that the Suharto family has

accumulated a wealth well over $8 billion. this includes the personal wealth of this family, relatives, their different businesses, not

just in East Timor, but throughout Indonesia.

How would you rank Indonesia’s army, as far as its effectiveness

and its military prowess? Would you say that they are just as good

as our army, as far as preparation of fighting soldiers?

Mr. NAIRN. That is a very interesting question. I think the best

comment I have heard on that is from Parmoedya, the famous Indonesian novelist and political prisoner of many years. He recently

took a tour of the United States. He is considered a leading contender for the Nobel Prize in Literature, and really a great cultural

voice in Indonesia.

He has made the comment that if you look at the history of the

Indonesian army as a fighting force, they do not do very well when

they have to fight an armed opponent. In the various confrontations they have had over the years with outside forces, they usually

lose.

The Timorese, although it was mainly through political means,

defeated the Indonesian army. I think if accurate history is written, this will go down as one of the great victories for the weak

over the strong: This country 1⁄200 the size of Indonesia driving out

this army backed by Washington.

What Parmoedya remarked was that when it comes to internal

repression, there the Indonesian army is extremely effectively.

That is their real business. That is their real mission. That, plus

military business. The Indonesian army is remarkable in that it is

not just a repressive force.

There are various repressive armies around the world, many of

which the U.S. has had very close ties with. The Indonesian army

adds an extra dimension in that they also operate a the sense like

an economic mafia. Nobody really knows precisely what the real

military budget in Indonesia is.

It is often commented that, in accounting terms, per capita the

Indonesian military budget is rather low, and it is, if you look at

what is written on the books. But estimates say that budget probably understates the real military funds by anywhere from 30, 40,

to 50 percent, because the army has hundreds and hundreds of

businesses that it runs on its own. KOPASSUS, for example. Right

outside the KOPASSUS Headquarters in Sejantung, when you go

into the KOPASSUS Headquarters, you see this gate where they

have these two gigantic sculptured knives that meet over the entrance. Right outside that is this beautiful modern shopping center,

which is owned by KOPASSUS.

That is the KOPASSUS shopping mall. The other branches have

similar operations. Many of them have criminal extortion businesses. They are very heavily into prostitution, rackets, for example. A former U.S. military attache acknowledged to me that the

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nesian cities. It is that kind of mafia-style operation which is an

integral part of Indonesian military operations.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. There is a very strong parallel, and similarly to the People’s Republic of China. Its army also has businesses. In fact, it is very, very similar in its operations with the

way the Indonesian army operates.

Mr. NAIRN. Yes. That would probably be the closest parallel.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. The closest parallel?

Mr. NAIRN. The closest parallel economically. Probably the one

difference would be that the PRC army is more in the big business

mode, in terms of their style, like these vast conglomerates. Whereas, the style of the Indonesian army is more like the street extortionist.

You hear just constant complaints about this from, say, local

business people, local merchants, anyone who is trying to do an

honest business on the street level. In Indonesia, you have to contend with the army shakedowns. It is just a part of life.

If you happen to be ethnic Chinese, you have the added burden

when times are tough, and when there is political tension in the

air, the army will often turn on those very merchants they have

been extorting. They will lead the mobs that will go in and sack

the stores, and sack the warehouses, So you can see, there is tension. The people hate the Chinese. Therefore, you need the army

there to protect the Chinese.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. I just have one more question. One of the

issues that is debated constantly, not only here in the Congress,

but also in the Administration, concerns sales of military equipment. Do you know our Country currently ranks as the number 1

seller of military equipment to other countries of the world?

Do you not think that there should be a global policy limiting

arms sales because who happens to be the ones that purchase most

of this military hardware? It is third World countries, countries

whose budgets are very limited, yet whose dictators and governments commit military rather than to meeting the economic needs

of the given countries.

I suppose the current policy in our government is that if we do

not sell our military hardware to these other countries, then the

French, the British, and the Russians are going to take over. So,

we have got to continue doing this. Do you think this is ever going

to change?

Mr. KOHEN. Economics changed a bit regarding the French. Realize that most of the church in East Timor has been leveled. The

French have taken actually a fairly strong position recently relative

to what they used to. I did not mean to cutoff Allan, but I think

we may be faced with a rather different situation.

There has never been a case like this where church buildings

wholesale have been knocked down where Priests and Nuns have

been killed. So, I think the position of various would-be arms salesmen may be a little different now than before. Allen.

Mr. NAIRN. Yes. I think it is absolutely crucial. Congress has to

take the lead in this. The executive branch is never going to do it

on their own, the U.S. mission of trying to peddle arms overseas.

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tractors for being the most vigorous Administration, in terms of

pushing U.S. weapons overseas.

They will all tell you that. They love the Clinton Administration

because it has gone to greater lengths than its predecessors. As you

say, in those situations when the U.S. is pushing these weapons,

the best case, the best you can hope for, is that it is just a waste

of money.

That some poor country gets their treasury drained and the

weapon just rusts in the warehouse, that is the best case. The

worst case, which often occurs, as in Indonesia, is that those weapons are actually used for internal repression, or to fuel a regional

conflict, or to otherwise cause deaths. It is just something that has

to be stopped.

The rationale for it is always, it creates jobs. Any economist will

tell you, and this is not a controversial question in economics, one

of the least efficient means of job creation is this kind of high tech

military weapons investment.

If you really want to create jobs, you take that same amount of

money and put it into other kinds of industry, other kinds of service, agriculture, whatever.

Any other channel you put it in, you will end up creating more

jobs back home. Finally, one thing I forgot to mention and this is

very much related to the economic front. This is quite important.

It so happens that today, September 30th, is the implementation

date for some military budget transparency legislation that was

passed by the Congress 3 years ago.

This has been under study in the Embassy in Jakarta. I do not

think it has gotten any public attention to this date. What this legislation says is, I will just read you the relevant section.

It says, ‘‘Beginning today, September 30, the Secretary of the

Treasury shall instruct the U.S. Executive Director of each international financial institution to use the voice and vote of the U.S.

to oppose any loan or other utilization of the funds of their respective institution, other than to address basic human needs, for the

government of any country which the Secretary of the Treasury determines: First, does not have in place a functioning system for reporting to civilian authorities, audits of receipts and expenditures

that fund activities of the armed forces and security forces, second,

has not provided to the institution information about the audit

process requested by the institution.’’

In other words, if a country’s military is not transparent working

on a sound accounting basis, completely accountable to the civilian

authorities, then that country cannot get international financial institution funds. That is what is mandated. That goes into effect

today. There is no way Indonesia can pass this test.

They have actually been agonizing about this in the Embassy for

months. Since it starts today, I think it is now time for Congress

to take a look at getting this implemented.

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Ms. Peres, gentlemen, I know it has been a

long afternoon. I cannot thank you enough for making the time to

come in and testify.

I ask unanimous consent that whatever records, materials, or

statements that you wish to submit to be made a part of the

record. It will be so, without objection.

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Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Again, thank you very much.

The hearing is adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 5:15 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

(73)

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SEPTEMBER 30, 1999

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