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28–271 PDF 2006

IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECENTLY

EXPANDED RAILROAD INFRASTRUCTURE LOAN PROGRAM

(109–56)

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON

RAILROADS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON

TRANSPORTATION AND

INFRASTRUCTURE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

MARCH 15, 2006

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure

(
COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

DON YOUNG, Alaska, Chairman

THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin, Vice-Chair

SHERWOOD L. BOEHLERT, New York

HOWARD COBLE, North Carolina

JOHN J. DUNCAN, JR., Tennessee

WAYNE T. GILCHREST, Maryland

JOHN L. MICA, Florida

PETER HOEKSTRA, Michigan

VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan

SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama

STEVEN C. LATOURETTE, Ohio

SUE W. KELLY, New York

RICHARD H. BAKER, Louisiana

ROBERT W. NEY, Ohio

FRANK A. LOBIONDO, New Jersey

JERRY MORAN, Kansas

GARY G. MILLER, California

ROBIN HAYES, North Carolina

ROB SIMMONS, Connecticut

HENRY E. BROWN, JR., South Carolina

TIMOTHY V. JOHNSON, Illinois

TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania

SAM GRAVES, Missouri

MARK R. KENNEDY, Minnesota

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania

JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas

JIM GERLACH, Pennsylvania

MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida

JON C. PORTER, Nevada

TOM OSBORNE, Nebraska

KENNY MARCHANT, Texas

MICHAEL E. SODREL, Indiana

CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania

TED POE, Texas

DAVID G. REICHERT, Washington

CONNIE MACK, Florida

JOHN R. ‘RANDY’ KUHL, JR., New York

LUIS G. FORTUN ̃ O, Puerto Rico

LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia

CHARLES W. BOUSTANY, JR., Louisiana

JEAN SCHMIDT, Ohio

JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota

NICK J. RAHALL, II, West Virginia

PETER A. DEFAZIO, Oregon

JERRY F. COSTELLO, Illinois

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of

Columbia

JERROLD NADLER, New York

CORRINE BROWN, Florida

BOB FILNER, California

EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas

GENE TAYLOR, Mississippi

JUANITA MILLENDER-MCDONALD,

California

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland

EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon

ELLEN O. TAUSCHER, California

BILL PASCRELL, JR., New Jersey

LEONARD L. BOSWELL, Iowa

TIM HOLDEN, Pennsylvania

BRIAN BAIRD, Washington

SHELLEY BERKLEY, Nevada

JIM MATHESON, Utah

MICHAEL M. HONDA, California

RICK LARSEN, Washington

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York

JULIA CARSON, Indiana

TIMOTHY H. BISHOP, New York

MICHAEL H. MICHAUD, Maine

LINCOLN DAVIS, Tennessee

BEN CHANDLER, Kentucky

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York

RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri

ALLYSON Y. SCHWARTZ, Pennsylvania

JOHN T. SALAZAR, Colorado

JOHN BARROW, Georgia

(II)
SUBCOMMITTEE ON RAILROADS

STEVEN C. LATOURETTE, Ohio, Chairman

THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin

SHERWOOD L. BOEHLERT, New York

JOHN L. MICA, Florida

SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama

JERRY MORAN, Kansas

GARY G. MILLER, California

ROB SIMMONS, Connecticut

TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania

SAM GRAVES, Missouri

JON PORTER, Nevada

TOM OSBORNE, Nebraska

MICHAEL E. SODREL, Indiana

LYNN A. WESTMORELND, Georgia, ViceChair

DON YOUNG, Alaska

(ex officio)

CORRINE BROWN, Florida

NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia

JERROLD NADLER, New York

BOB FILNER, California

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland

EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon

LEONARD L. BOSWELL, Iowa

JULIA CARSON, Indiana

PETER A. DEFAZIO, Oregon

JERRY F. COSTELLO, Illinois

EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas

JOHN BARROW, Georgia

JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota

(ex officio)

(III)

(V)

CONTENTS

TESTIMONY

Page

Boardman, Hom. Joseph H., Administrator, Federal Railroad Administration,

accompanied by Joseph Pomponio, Chief, Freight Program Division, Office

of Railroad Development, Federal Railroad Administration ............................ 2

PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

Brown, Hon. Corrine, of Florida ............................................................................. 34

Costello, Hon. Jerry F., of Illinois .......................................................................... 41

Cummings, Hon. Elijah E., of Maryland ............................................................... 43

Oberstar, James L. of Minnesota ........................................................................... 49

Young, Hon. Don, of Alaska .................................................................................... 52

PREPARED STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY THE WITNESS

Boardman, Hom. Joseph H ..................................................................................... 18

SUBMISSION FOR THE RECORD

Boardman, Hom. Joseph H., Administrator, Federal Railroad, responses to

questions from Rep. Moran of Kansas ................................................................ 30

ADDITION TO THE RECORD

Timmons, Richard F., President, American Short Line and Regional Railroad

Association, letter, March 7, 2006 ...................................................................... 57

(1)

IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECENTLY EXPANDED RAIL INFRASTRUCTURE LOAN

PROGRAM

Wednesday, March 15, 2006,

COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON RAILROADS, HOUSE OF REPRESENT- ATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:30 p.m. in room 2167,

Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Steven LaTourette [chairman

of the committee] presiding.

Mr. LATOURETTE. The Subcommittee on Rail will come to order

this afternoon.

Good afternoon. This afternoon we are doing a checkup on the

Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Finance program, usually known more succinctly as RRIF. This program has had an unnecessarily checkered history since it was created in 1998 in the

TEA-21 legislation, mostly due to administrative obstruction. When the expanded $35 billion version of RRIF was enacted last

summer as part of SAFETEA-LU, the Congress legislatively overruled point by point each of the four handicaps that had been imposed in the program by the Department of Transportation and the

Office of Management and Budget. The foregone opportunities to

improve our rail transport network in eight years of a stifled RRIF

program are huge. But in 1998 through 2005, only a tiny fraction

of the $3.5 billion revolving authorization for rail and rail intermodal infrastructure loans was tapped.

Last year’s authorization expanded the program ten-fold. These

loans have no budgetary score associated with them unless and

until the security deposit is provided by Federal appropriation.

Even then, only the deposit is scored, not the loan amount itself.

Think of what $3.5 billion in off budget funds could have done

since 1998 to address some of the choke points in our rail network

and to upgrade the marginal track network of the Nation’s short

line railroads.

Today’s hearing should help the Subcommittee ascertain whether

the Department of Transportation has in fact complied with

SAFETEA-LU and remove the impediments that the DOT has

placed in the way of normal processing of RRIF applications for direct and guaranteed loans for rail infrastructure. The hearing

should also tell us whether the DOT has in fact complied with

other affirmative duties and obligations imposed upon DOT regarding the RRIF program in the SAFETEA-LU bill.

Today’s hearing is the third held by an arm of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee on RRIF sine its creation of
2

the program. In 1999, 2000 and 2001, members of this Committee,

on a thoroughly bipartisan basis, made clear that both the present

and the previous Administration, their frustration with the way

that this program was being hobbled. Let’s hope that today’s hearing is something different.

Because this is a hearing to determine DOT’s compliance with

the law, we will be hearing testimony only from the Department

itself. However, as is our standard practice, the Subcommittee will

accept written submissions from other interested parties about the

function of the RRIF program for inclusion in the written record of

this hearing.

Before yielding to our special guest today, the distinguished

Ranking Member from Illinois, Mr. Costello, I do have one housekeeping matter. I would ask unanimous consent to allow 30 days

for members to revise and extend their remarks and to permit the

submission of additional statements and materials by witnesses.

Without objection, so ordered.

And specifically, the unanimous consent to insert the Chairman

of the full Committee, Mr. Young’s opening remarks, questions that

have been submitted to the Committed by Mr. Moran of Kansas,

and a letter from the short line railroads to Chairman Young. Also

without objection, so ordered.

It is now my pleasure to recognize, as I indicated, our special

guest as Ranking Member today, someone who I served with when

we were on the Public Buildings Subcommittee, the gentleman

from Illinois, Mr. Costello.

Mr. COSTELLO. Mr. Chairman, thank you. You have accurately

described the purpose of this hearing and the problem that we have

faced with the Administration. So I will submit my statement for

the record and yield back the balance of my time, so we can go directly to our witness.

Mr. LATOURETTE. I thank you very much, Mr. Costello.

We have only one witness today. We are honored to have with

us the Administrator from the Federal Railroad Administration, Joseph H. Boardman. Mr. Boardman, we appreciate your being here

and we very much look forward to your testimony. We will catch

up with Mr. Oberstar after we have heard from you.

Welcome, and we would love to hear from you.

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE JOSEPH H. BOARDMAN, ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION; ACCOMPANIED BY: JOSEPH POMPONIO, CHIEF, FREIGHT PROGRAM DIVISION, OFFICE OF RAILROAD DEVELOPMENT, FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION

Mr. BOARDMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations on

the new member of your family.

Chairman LaTourette, Ranking Member Costello and other members of the Subcommittee, it is my pleasure today to represent Secretary of Transportation Norman Y. Mineta to discuss the status

of the Federal Railroad Administration’s implementation of the

Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Financing program, better known as RRIF.

I am accompanied today by Mr. Joseph Pomponio, to my left,

Chief of the Freight Program Division in FRA’s Office of Railroad
3

Development and the FRA Manager directly responsible for the

RRIF program implementation, as you requested.

The current RRIF program was created in 1998 in the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century, or TEA-21. TEA-21 significantly amended the RRIF program created by Title V of the Railroad Revitalization and Regulatory Reform, or 4R Act of 1976. That

program had lain largely fallow due to changes in the requirements

for Federal loan and loan guaranty programs created in the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990.

To date, the RRIF is the primary discretionary program available

to FRA to provide financial assistance for capital improvements for

the rail industry in general and to the small regional freight railroads in particular. Thus far, FRA has entered into financing

agreements with 12 railroads for 13 grants in the total amount of

$517.7 million.

All of this financial assistance has been made through direct

loans. Recipients have included one Class I railroad, Amtrak; two

Class II railroads; and nine Class III railroads. A list of these loan

recipients is attached to my written testimony.

Section 9003 of SAFETEA-LU amended the RRIF program in a

number of ways. It has now been seven months since enactment of

SAFETEA-LU and I wish to report briefly on the FRA’s implementation of the most important of these amendments. First is the expansion of eligible applicants. The SAFETEA-LU amendments effectively expanded the types of entities eligible to include limited

option shippers and commuter railroads. While FRA has been contacted by several limited option shippers to date, none has filed an

application. FRA has recently received and is currently processing

a loan application from a commuter railroad to fund acquisition of

50 new passenger cards.

The second is expanding the extent of RRIF authority.

SAFETEA-LU expanded the total authority outstanding for RRIF

financial assistance from $3.5 billion to $35 billion, and the amount

reserved for small and regional railroads from $1 billion to $7 billion. The amendments also provided that the Secretary was not to

establish any limit on the amount that could be used for one loan

or loan guaranty. These changes may have significant impact on

the types and sizes of projects for which applicants may seek financial assistance and the consequence to the Federal Government in

the event of a default.

Third is the requirement for collateral. SAFETEA-LU provides

that the Secretary not require an applicant to provide collateral

and that any collateral provided be evaluated at going concern

value after giving effect to the present value of the improvement.

Before the SAFETEA-LU amendments, FRA sought collateral to

cover at least 100 percent of the value of the loan, but never required any specific amount.

Where the value of collateral is important is in the calculation

of the credit risk premium, which must look at the extent to which

the Federal Government would be at risk in the event of a default.

By offering collateral, applicants reduce the risk to the Government

and thus the credit risk premium they would have to pay.

As provided for in SAFETEA-LU, in assessing the value of collateral, FRA uses going concern value where it is appropriate. Some
4

applicants may choose to offer collateral that does not encompass

a going concern, such as a locomotive. These are valued as they

would be by any other financial institution, usually at market or

net liquidation value. Documenting the financing is not available

on equivalent terms from other sources.

SAFETEA-LU also provides that the Secretary shall not require

that an applicant shall have previously sought financial assistance

from another source. Prior to this change, FRA, consistent with

Federal credit policy, sought to encourage private sector financing

by requiring that applicants demonstrate they had sought financing in terms equivalent to those under the program from a commercial lending institution and had been rejected. No applicant is

known to have had a problem demonstrating this, in part because

the RRIF program offers applicants long-term financing at Treasury rates, making it unlikely that applicants would find such low

cost financing in the private market.

Time limit on approving a complete application. SAFETEA-LU

provides that FRA has 90 days after receipt of a complete application to approve or disapprove an application. To date, FRA has not

found this limit to be an operational issue, given the volume of applications FRA receives.

Evaluation charge. While TEA-21 provided authority to collect an

investigation fee, it was found inadequate to authorize the expenditure of funds collected. SAFETEA-LU amendments clarified that

FRA can expend any funds collected under that authority to evaluate an application, including costs for contractors to undertake

independent financial engineering and market analysis of applicants and applications. This provision has streamlined the application review process significantly.

In the future, FRA is currently evaluating eight applications seeking a total of $2.75 billion in financial assistance. These applications range in amount from $6.2 million to $2.5 billion. Any discussion of the future or RRIF should address the Administration’s

budget request. The Administration’s budget request for 2007, as

it did the Administration’s budget request for 2006, proposes the

termination of the RRIF program. I urge your thoughtful consideration of the Administration’s proposal.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my testimony and I look forward

to answering any questions the Committee members might have on

the implementation of the RRIF program.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Mr. Boardman, I thank you very much. I

would just begin by saying, I have given thoughtful consideration

to the Administration’s request. I happen to think most of us think

the RRIF program is a pretty good deal and a pretty good idea. As

a Republican, I can only say that the Administration is putting

folks like me in a tough position by one, making speeches calling

for the ten-fold growth in the RRIF program, and then sending up

a budget asking for its elimination. But we’ll deal with the President, I suppose, on that.

Can you tell us, since the inception of the RRIF program, how

many RRIF loans have been granted by the Administration?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Thirteen RRIF loans.

Mr. LATOURETTE. How many of those have gone into default or

have not been paid back?
5

Mr. BOARDMAN. There have been none.

Mr. LATOURETTE. That’s what I thought.

I want to talk about, I talked about in my opening statement I

talked about the checkered history and what I consider to be a dismal record. You were not here for all of this, so you are not going

to wear the jacket. But this Administration and the last Administration in my mind at least has flaunted the will of the Congress.

This is a program that was designed to provide funds, beginning

with the TEA-21 moving forward, $3.5 billion. I think, in my opening statement, I mean, we have congestion problems, we have capacity problems, we have a variety of problems that at least in my

mind, and I think on this that we have bipartisan agreement, that

if these funds had been made available as the Congress intended,

rather than having some of these impediments placed in the way,

that were never enacted, and we have to now straighten out in

SAFETEA-LU, I think we would have a better national rail system.

But let me just ask this question. You talked about the encouragement in the past that borrowers go into the market. That I

think was the lender of last resort regulation. There was a June

23rd, 2000 Department of Transportation-OMB Memorandum of

Understanding on RRIF. It at least in my mind had four obnoxious

provisions. One was this lender of last resort. And I think that I,

my question to you, and we will go to the other ones next, it is my

understanding that SAFETEA-LU has now straightened that

out,and that is not to be the way this is administered any more.

Can you give us an assurance that that is your understanding

and that is how the Department is going to proceed in the future,

or if that is not your understanding, can you tell us what your understanding is?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I believe that the MOU that

you are referring to is irrelevant. It really is an encumbrance for

us. I think SAFETEA-LU corrected that. And I would like to point

out for the record that the first grant under our RRIF really came

under Secretary Mineta. I believe that he is one who is carrying

out both the interest and the spirit of what occurred here in terms

of the RRIF law.

Mr. LATOURETTE. And then specifically to go through them, so

that our record is clear, the legal situation regarding the RRIF program after SAFETEA-LU. First, is it correct that the abolition of

the lender of last resort regulation happened by operation of law

when that bill was signed and did not require some administrative

implementation at the Department of Transportation to put it into

effect?

Mr. BOARDMAN. That is correct. We today are carrying out and

implementing both the spirit and the law of SAFETEA-LU.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Second, in order to avoid confusing potential

applicants about the demise of this lender of last resort, has the

FRA removed that subsection from its published regulations?

Mr. POMPONIO. No.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Do you intend to do that?

Mr. POMPONIO. Yes, sir, we intend to revise our regulations at

some point to make changes. But at this point, the statute takes

precedence over the regulations. So the regulations no longer affect

it.
6

Mr. LATOURETTE. Third, didn’t the enactment of SAFETEA-LU

immediately nullify the June 23rd, 2000 MOU on the RRIF program?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, it did. We believe it’s irrelevant.

Mr. LATOURETTE. All right. And fourth, has the DOT made any

sort of public announcement or communicated by other means to

potential loan applicants that the requirements stated in the DOTOMB MOU are no longer operative, and if not, when does the Department intend to do so?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, we have, by reaching out to the short line

railroads, by talking to the AASHTO folks. We have had a regular

reach-out to make sure they understand the provisions of

SAFETEA-LU.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Have any of those communications been in

writing?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I would have to verify that. I don’t know.

Mr. LATOURETTE. If any of them have, I would just ask that you

submit those for the purposes of the record, if you have anything

that was sent out in writing to the parties, which you have just

talked about.

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. LATOURETTE. As the would-be homebuyer said to the mortgage company, let’s talk interest rates. Your statement on page

three correctly reflects the fact that the RRIF statute sets out two

different interest rate standards, one for direct loans made by the

Government and one for guaranteed loans made by private lenders

and federally guaranteed. What I find curious is that your statement of the interest rate standard for guaranteed loans tracks almost verbatim the language of the statute, but for direct loans by

the Government, your statement of the standard I think is, ‘‘an interest rate equal to the cost of borrowing for a comparable term

based on the current Treasury rate at the time of closing.’’

Now, I think what the law says is that a rate not less than that

necessary to recover the cost of making the loan. To me, that seems

like quite a difference. And the statute doesn’t mention comparable

term, it doesn’t peg the interest to a Treasury rate, much less than

that on the closing date. It seems rather clear that it is just a cost

recovery standard.

If you know, where did these extra details come from and what

is their legal basis? And by the way, hasn’t every RRIF loan since

1998 been a direct, not a guaranteed one?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I can answer the last part of that, yes, they have

been a direct loan. But I am going to ask Mr. Pomponio to answer

the first part.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Okay.

Mr. POMPONIO. The statute requires that the interest rate reflect

the cost to the Government. But the cost also includes a component

of risk. So early on in the formulation of the program, we had to

make a choice of either having the interest rate float or to have the

risk premium float. And through consultation with OMB, we determined that the interest rate would remain fixed and the credit risk

premium would go up and down according to the risk.
7

Mr. LATOURETTE. I’m going to have to think about that answer

while I yield to my colleagues. I may have some additional questions.

I just wanted to, Mr. Boardman, I happen to have been impressed with the job that you have done with the FRA in your

short tim there. Just from my perspective, it seems this Administration and the last Administration has done everything in its

power to make sure that this program has so many obstacles that

these loans don’t get out and do the work that the Congress intended them to do. I would hope that that would not be your bent,

despite the fact that your boss has set up a budget that asks us

to discontinue something that the Congress thinks is a worthwhile

program.

It is now my pleasure to yield to Mr. Costello.

Mr. COSTELLO. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and let me just express

my frustration as well with this Administration and the obstruction

that they have attempted to place in front of the Congress implementing this program. I think when we passed SAFETEA-LU, we

were very clear in our intention in the law. It was President Bush

who came to Illinois, and many of us attended the signing ceremony, when he signed SAFETEA-LU and talked about what a

great bill it was and how it was going to help not only in our roads,

bridges, highways, aviation, but also railroads. And he talked specifically about infrastructure.

I am going to ask you, Mr. Boardman, just a couple of quick

questions, ask if you agree or disagree. One, in just the brief conversation we had before the hearing, you acknowledged that freight

transportation is continuing to grow. Would you agree that it is

growing past its current capacity to handle the growth?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I think all trend indications are that that is the

case.

Mr. COSTELLO. Okay, and would you agree that we need additional investment in infrastructure projects to enhance service, promote efficiency and reduce cost?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes. I see railroads making those investments.

Mr. COSTELLO. And you may or may not know that the White

House Office of Management and Budget was invited to testify

here today, but refused to testify at this hearing. But they claim

on their web site, and I am going to quote: ‘‘There is no clear justification why the Federal Government should extend such favorable loans to private rail companies.’’ Are you familiar with that

statement on OMB’s web site?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. COSTELLO. Would you agree with that or disagree?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, sir. I believe that what we have today is an

ability for the railroads to go into the private sector to find the financing they need for their investments.

Mr. COSTELLO. So you think that there is no responsibility on the

part of the Federal Government regarding investing in infrastructure, either from a safety standpoint or any standpoint?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I think that what we are finding today is the

railroads are actually becoming profitable in a way that allows

them to use more of the commercial market than they have been
8

able to in the past. Our position is that this kind of a program can

be financed in the private sector.

Mr. COSTELLO. So the responsibility for safety, for improving the

rail infrastructure, rests solely on the private sector, on the railroads?

Mr. BOARDMAN. The responsibility for safety on the railroads is

with the operator. It is our responsibility to ensure that they are

making the right investments to continue that safety.

Mr. COSTELLO. And in your judgment, are you carrying out that

responsibility today?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. COSTELLO. Let me ask why Class I freight railroads have not

used the RRIF program? Can you tell me in your opinion why that

is?

Mr. BOARDMAN. We do have one Class I, notwithstanding the fact

that some don’t see that way, Amtrak is a Class I railroad, so they

are using the program. The other Class I railroads in many ways,

while the program is open to them, as I said earlier, I believe have

become much more profitable and have found ways to make improvements in their infrastructure without using this particular

program.

Mr. COSTELLO. My office, we have been contacted and I am sure

my colleagues as well on this Subcommittee and in the Congress,

from some potential applicants who are saying they find the application process very confusing. On your web site, you direct them

to review provisions of TEA-21, review the implementing regulations and review the amendments of SAFETEA-LU. That is not

very helpful or user friendly. Is there a reason why you do not explain the process in terms that they can understand and follow?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I think everybody that is interested in this program should take the first step in the process, and that is to come

in for a pre-application meeting, which is our first step. In that

particular meeting, Mr. Pomponio meets with that potential applicant to explain all those conditions to ensure that we are protecting

the taxpayers and the United States and what this Congress wanted us to carry out appropriately.

I think we have done a good job reaching out to the railroad community to make sure they understand that. I know myself, as a

small operator and business owner in the past, that a lot of times

these particular regulations become very confusing when you read

them on a web site or when you see them for the first time. But

what you begin to understand is, we truly are here to try to help

move that forward, and I think we have done a good job with that.

Mr. COSTELLO. Well, I know some potential applicants that

would disagree with your statement. SAFETEA-LU specifically directs you to post on your web site the criteria and standards used

to determine whether to approve or disapprove. Do you think you

are complying with that directive in SAFETEA-LU?

Mr. BOARDMAN. We certainly think that we are. If there are recommendations that would improve that, I would be happy to look

at those. If there is a specific applicant that you have in mind, or

applicants, I would also be happy to meet with them.
9

Mr. COSTELLO. Have you heard from some people in the freight

rail business that freight railroads cannot cover their cost of capital

with their revenues?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I think that it has been a problem that has been,

with any highly intense capital business, for the last several years,

it has been very difficult to cover that. But I think some of that

is changing, and because there is more and more demand, I think

as you pointed out earlier, in terms of the congestion that is out

there today. So some of those conditions are changing, but that certainly exists as well.

Mr. COSTELLO. Mr. Chairman, I see that I am out of time. I will

have a few other questions in a minute, I hope.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Okay, thank you very much, Mr. Costello. It

is now my pleasure to yield to the distinguished Ranking Member

of the full Committee, Mr. Oberstar.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Thank you for calling this hearing, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your interest, vigorous as it has always been, in

rail service. You have been a staunch advocate and a thoughtful

and constructive force for advancing the cause of rail service in the

United States, passenger rail, inter-city transit and freight rail.

So it comes as a great surprise, when we passed a bipartisan bill,

bicameral bill, to increase the funding for the RRIF program from

$3.5 million to $35 billion, and the President six months or so ago

signed that bill into law to have their first budget come out and

eliminate, propose at least to eliminate the program, saying credit

assistance is unwarranted because ‘‘there is no compelling public

interest in the program.’’ Where did you get that idea? You didn’t

write that statement, did you? That was written probably before

you came on board.

Mr. BOARDMAN. I did not write it, sir.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I am glad to hear that. I wish we had before us

the person who wrote it. I wonder where in heaven’s name that

person has been spending his or her time. You surely have traveled

beyond 495 to the rest of America.

Mr. BOARDMAN. Is that a question, sir?

Mr. OBERSTAR. Yes.

Mr. BOARDMAN. I live in Rome, New York, so I have to travel beyond that to get home.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Terrific. SO you know there is another world out

there beyond the beltway.

Mr. BOARDMAN. I do, sir.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Apparently this person doesn’t, who wrote that

statement, that is, is not aware that the Nation’s railroads are at

peak capacity after many years of troubled economic times, they

are now making money, profits, and trying to invest in their rolling

stock and in the rail bed itself and in switches and in all that goes

into running a railroad efficiently and effectively. They can’t keep

up. They need to replace 50,000 rail cars a year. There isn’t enough

production capacity to keep up with demand. They need to replace

locomotives, build new ones. There isn’t enough production capacity

to keep up with demand, because for so many years they weren’t

getting adequate return on capital, or at least they claimed so. In

many cases, they certainly weren’t.
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But it is different now, and they need to catch up. We have 6.5

million trucks on the Nation’s highways carrying goods between

cities. And they are congested and they are behind time. They are

trying to get the railroads to carry more of the trucks, the rails

can’t carry the trucks. The railroads are trying to get the trucks

to carry the containers. They can’t, they don’t have enough capacity.

So someone in this Administration said, there is no compelling

public interest in the program? That’s outrageous. It’s like telling

Brown that he did a good job in Katrina. I was just there over this

past weekend. There is a whole St. Bernard Parish, I know it has

nothing to do with this hearing, Mr. Chairman, but it is an example of the incompetence of people who write this drivel and expect

us to swallow it. A whole 38,000 homes are submerged, homes that

were lifted up by that flood and moved three blocks, home, concrete

pad, smashed into other homes, and they say, oh, you’re doing a

fine job. It’s destroyed.

So we need to rebuild America. Are you aware of what China is

doing?

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Tell me what you know about what China is

doing in rail.

Mr. BOARDMAN. I think what China is doing is not just in rail.

I think they have taken over perhaps as many as 30, over 30 ports,

they have built the largest container terminal outside the United

States within 50 miles. They bill it as East Meets West, North

Meets South. China is making strategic investments all over the

world.

They now today are building a railroad that is going to go into

western Europe to continue to expand their economy. I think they

are a competitor, I think it is something that we need to be aware

of, and I absolutely agree with you.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I am delighted to hear that. I spent a good deal of time, made seven trips to China. They are investing $200 billion

and doubling the capacity of their ports. They have a $100 billion

program to modernize 35 existing airports, build 6 new ones and

build airports in the interior of the country, in a regional airport

development program that I encouraged them to do 3 years ago.

And they build the world’s first maglev operational system in

Shanghai, from downtown Shanghai to the Pudong airport, two

12,500 foot runways, terminal to handle 90 million passengers a

year. It is working very successfully. And now they are building an

820 mile link from Beijing to Shanghai, steel on steel, traveling 220

miles an hour, 820 mile railroad, at a price tag of $17.5 billion. You

mean to tell me that there is no compelling public interest in a rail

program in the United States? The Chinese sure have figured it

out.

They also are committed to building a 110 mile maglev from

Shanghai to Hangzhou. Shanghai-Hangzhou is a 110 mile high

technology corridor. Last night I had dinner with Liwu Steel

Group, from the City of Liwu, who have invested, Mr. Chairman,

in an iron ore mine in my district. Because China this year will

pour 345 million tons of raw steel. No country in the history of the

industrial revolution has poured that much steel.
11

They have such a demand for iron ore that a mine in my district

that was shut down because of competition from Brazilian ore is

now open because of the world competition need of China for iron

ore to feed their steel industry.

We tried to get rail service to bring that ore from Minnesota to

the West Coast, to Prince Rupert Island, so they would have an

8,000 mile journey to Liwu, but the railroads couldn’t give us a

quote that was near what the Chinese wanted. So we ship it by rail

to Lake Superior, laker through the Great Lakes system to Hamilton, Ontario, where it goes to Steel Company of Canada. StelCo,

which had been taking ore from Labrador, stops taking that ore

and Labrador ore goes to China.

But because of that exchange, we have an iron ore mine that is

back employing 430 people. If we had a really efficient, effective

rail system, we would have saved millions of dollars, put more people to work, created an opportunity for more capital investment in

the iron ore mine of Minnesota. And there are many of those examples all around this Country.

Now, I have for years supported the maglev technology and authored the provisions in ISTEA that provided stimulus for the research, development, testing and engineering of maglev. And in

TEA-21 and again in SAFETEA-LU. The General Atomics Company won the contract to do this R&D and I was out in San Diego,

pushed the lever to see this maglev lift off and operate on a 400

foot track, Mr. Chairman. It is fantastic. Quiet, smooth, efficient.

I have always thought it was a great thing for passenger service.

But the Port of Los Angeles came to meet with me and General

Atomics and said, we would like to use the maglev technology to

move freight containers from the Port of Los Angeles through the

Alameda Corridor into and past Riverside, on a continuous loop

line. Because you can move them faster with less impact on the

community. Won’t have to do the grade separations that are now

costing probably a billion and a half dollars just to do the grade

separation for the existing traffic.

The RRIF loan would be terrific for this initiative. I wish I would

have thought of it myself. But they can do that. And I have had

discussion with some of your staff, a couple of months ago, about

this matter.

Now, do you think that qualifies in the sentence that there is no

compelling public interest in the program? I would call that a compelling interest, wouldn’t you?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I think it certainly qualifies for the program of

RRIF.

Mr. OBERSTAR. You wouldn’t call it compelling, though? Well, you

probably will in sotto voce.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will desist for the moment.

Mr. LATOURETTE. I thank you very much, Mr. Oberstar.

Mr. Boardman, just a couple, I think I have three questions, and

then we will turn to my colleagues to see if they have some followup as well. But just so you don’t think we are here to beat you up

today, I have been advised by counsel that your testimony was submitted, it is the earliest we have ever received FRA testimony since

1987. So you are to be congratulated for that, and we thank you
12

for doing that. Whoever got that to us, we very much appreciate

it.

Maybe this one is for Mr. Pomponio, because he talked about the

credit risk premium. Just so I understand, on the floating credit

risk premium, if the applicant puts up 5 percent, does this floating

risk premium a the beginning of the loan, is it your belief that the

DOT can come back during the life of the loan and demand that

that deposit be increased to 10 percent or another percentage of the

face amount?

Mr. POMPONIO. No, sir, it is fixed at the beginning and it is fixed

for life. It is a one time charge.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Okay. Then I want to talk a little bit about

whether or not there has been compliance with the requirements

of SAFETEA-LU. I have the Federal Register from September

26th, 2005. I know that it was late, and that isn’t so much what

concerns me.

What I hear from the short lines in particular is the criteria is

in a black box where the applicants know next to nothing. I think

what we were attempting to in SAFETEA-LU was to correct that.

But the correction that I think you think, and I appreciate your

willingness to receive additional suggestions from us, but the words

I think you have published say as follows: ‘‘The words used below

differ from the statute and the regulations only for the purpose of

brevity. This notice does not contain any new criteria or impose

any new requirements or have any legal effect other than to satisfy

the mandate from the Congress to issue this notice.’’

First of all, can you tell me what that is supposed to mean, because I don’t think I know? And second of all, I think it says that

you are simply announcing a condensed restatement of the existing

statute. And how does that then satisfy the Congressional intention

to give specific criteria and specific notice so that people who want

to apply for these RRIF loans, even if you don’t like them, how they

can do it?

Mr. POMPONIO. Well, our intent was to comply with the statute,

and by necessity, this process is one where we have many different

types of applications that come in. So it is difficult to set criteria

that would apply to all of them. We do go out of our way to provide

as much guidance as we can as to what items are reviewed on an

individual basis. I talk to potential applicants every day.

But it is just simply too difficult to anticipate what types of applicants we might receive and therefore be able to lay out specific

criteria. The primary one is repayability.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Okay. I appreciate that. That actually brings

me to, because as I read it, and I want to be fair, but as I read

it, it is like the absolute minimum to satisfy what we had suggested in SAFETEA-LU.

Secondly, in Appendix 2 to your statement today, Mr. Boardman,

it discusses an OMB-approved CRP model that is used to calculate

the credit risk premium for RIFF loans. Yet I don’t see the CRP

model mentioned in the September 26th Federal Register notice

that supposedly satisfied the SAFETEA-LU mandate to publish

substantive criteria and standards used to approve or disapprove

applications. So why at a minimum don’t we have your OMB-approved CRP model?
13

Mr. BOARDMAN. The credit risk premium is on our web site. If

we need to adjust how we say that information, we will do that.

I don’t think that is a problem, is it?

Mr. POMPONIO. No. If I might add, the primary purpose of that

credit risk premium model is to estimate the risk to the Government. We decided early on that if that model were made public and

available to anyone, first of all, it is a complicated model that requires input by the agency. And secondly, if it were made public,

it might provide opportunity to gain the system and to provide

input that might skew the results.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Okay. Let me ask you this. Am I the only one

that gets complaints from short lines and people in the railroad

business that they don’t quite have the program down based upon

your publication of the requirements? They’re not complaining to

you? You have not heard that complaint before?

Mr. POMPONIO. As I said, I speak to potential applicants every

day and explain every question they have. I spend a lot of time explaining. Our application is on our web site. All that need to do is

be filled out. The reference to the statute is only for reference and

it is not required reading, because an applicant could just fill out

the application. So I have not had anyone come and say they don’t

understand the system. I have gone so far as to help them complete

an application.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Okay.

And Mr. Boardman, my last question before going to my colleagues again, and I heard what you said and I think you heard

what I said, but there was a quote by Secretary Mineta in a magazine called the American Short Line and Regional Railroad Association, it was actually a press release, and it came about in January

of 2004, and the Secretary made the following statement, when

they were proud to announce the $233 million RRIF loan for the

Dakota Minnesota and Eastern Railroad: ‘‘President Bush is committed to growing the economy and the RRIF program provides targeted, innovative finance opportunities that yield significant and

economic benefits.’’ What has happened since the Secretary made

that pronouncement?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I think the Secretary believes that. I think that

the RRIF program has done that. I think we have carried out the

law appropriately. I think the belief here is that the private sector

can provide that.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Well, thank you very much.

Mr. Costello.

Mr. COSTELLO. Mr. Chairman, thank you.

I have to tell you, Mr. Boardman, I have to strongly disagree

with you. I do not think that you are complying with the statute.

Frankly, I heard what the Chairman said, and I heard what the

reply was. But I don’t think that you or the Administration is going

out of their way to really help anyone. I have heard from the short

lines too, the same as the Chairman has, and I am sure other colleagues. There are a number of people who are confused, they have

questions. And I have really not had anyone say to me that they

have contacted your office where they felt that they got complete

information and that you were helpful concerning the RRIF program.
14

But let me ask a question. If it is the Administration’s position

and your position that there is no compelling public interest in financing these facilities, that the private railroads have to finance

these projects on their own, then when the Administration submitted their bill for SAFETEA, U.S. Department of Transportation in

2003, the Administration proposed private freight eligibility under

the highway program. Now, if we are going to say to the private

railroads that you have to finance these projects, then why did the

Administration say, it is okay to take money from under the highway program to finance these projects and programs, but it is not

appropriate to take it out of the RRIF program?

Mr. BOARDMAN. I am not sure of the specifics of what you are

bringing up. I don’t know that even if I was right at this minute

what the thinking would have been behind it in 2003. But I do believe that there is a difference between the highways and the railroads in terms of its ownership. The highways are publicly owned

and have been publicly owned and publicly financed. There is an

interest at the highway side at this point in time to find new private ways to pay for highways. I don’t know if that particular section you are talking about regulates that or addresses that.

But the railroad has been a private entity from the beginning

and is owned privately.

Mr. COSTELLO. Well, I would just ask you and suggest to you

that you may want to take a look at page 38 in the bill that the

Administration and the Department of Transportation propose, because it clearly indicates that if this bill was implemented and

passed by the Congress that these projects would be financed, that

it was okay with the Administration to finance them under the

highway program. It just seems inconsistent, the Administration’s

position today to let these private companies finance the infrastructure on their own.

With that, Mr. Chairman, I would yield back the balance of my

time.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Thank you, Mr. Costello.

Mr. Oberstar.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I find a very interesting comment in your testimony about the procedures that have to be followed for application.

On page 3, you said, pre-application meetings, many RRIF applicants have had little past experience with Federal funding programs, time and cost associated with the need to comply with

NEPA and Section 106 of the Historic Preservation Act, the rigor

of FRA analysis.

So railroads, some railroads, you say, have chosen not to proceed

with RRIF applications after the pre-application meetings. That is

a very candid statement on your part and I appreciate it. But it

sounds a lot to me like you are trying to chase them away rather

than help them out. Your job as the Federal Government is to help

people.

We put a program in place, we put the funding behind it, we say

there is a need out there, we have identified that need, and then

we expect you to help people carry it out, not to scare them away.

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, sir, I understand that.

Mr. OBERSTAR. And if there are complications about NEPA and

historic preservation, I direct you to the streamlining provisions of
15

SAFETEA-LU. At full Committee Chairman Young’s request, I

largely wrote that language. Came back to him with it, we made

numbers of changes. It is a totally bipartisan approach, a lot of

pages of legislative language.

But it was going to streamline, it was going to cut months,

maybe years out of the way we finance and build our Federal highway program. Just lift that language out, take it over to the RRIF

loan program and you can cut a lot of time and wasted effort out

and speed these loans along. I will even come and help you do that

if you need help with it.

Mr. BOARDMAN. Mr. Oberstar, I accept the help and I will look

at that language. I will see if we can improve this.

Mr. OBERSTAR. We dealt very specifically with the National Trust

for Historic Preservation. Very complicated stuff. But we got it

worked out. All the highway construction interests and the environmental interests all had a crack at that language, and we satisfied everybody. It is an amazing piece of work. And it will help

speed these projects.

I don’t want to read again that someone was turned away because they are going to take to much time. I want to read that you

are out there helping people get along.

You said in response to Mr. Costello, the private sector can provide that, meaning financing. I don’t think the private sector is

rushing out to help finance railroads, certainly not the short lines,

certainly not with the problems that we have seen over the last

several years. That is why we established this loan program.

So we want you to nurture it, encourage it along. I know if the

members of this Committee have anything to say about it, and we

will, that we are not going to see that RRIF loan zeroed out. We

are going to see it implemented. I would like to see a project like

the maglev take a whack at speeding freight.

You know, $370 billion in freight enters the United States at the

six West Coast ports. More than 75 percent of that freight is destined beyond California. Today it takes 30 hours from the Port of

Long Beach-Los Angeles, 1,200 miles and $300 per container to get

to Chicago. Then it takes 30 hours and $300 to go 7 miles through

Chicago. And then $200 per container and another 24 hours to go

to the East Coast, 1,200 miles.

That is very costly by the time it gets to the consumer. We are

spending an awful lot of time and money on moving freight

through highly congested corridors. If we can speed up that freight

movement by putting additional rail capacity in place, then we

have an obligation to the public, to our economic productivity, to

do that.

I have talked to the Mayor of Los Angeles, Mayor Villaraigosa,

I talked with the Port Authority, as I indicated earlier, of Long

Beach-Los Angeles. And we are very soon going to be coming into

your office to look for a RRIF loan to do this maglev project. And

I look forward to your embrace of the idea.

Mr. BOARDMAN. I’d better have that streamlining language in

there before you get to the office.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I am looking forward to doing that.

Mr. BOARDMAN. Yes, sir
16

Mr. OBERSTAR. The Administration has said that they are going

to eliminate the RRIF provisions through the appropriations process. Don’t waste—carry the message back. You probably don’t really want to do that, but carry the message back that we want to see

this Administration spend more time figuring how to do these loans

than trying how to kill the loans. We ought to be doing at least as

much as China.

That is all I have. Thank you very much.

Mr. LATOURETTE. I thank you very much, Mr. Oberstar.

Ms. Brown, we are about to finish. Do you have anything you

want to say before we leave? We have to go down and save the people that are losing their identities in Financial Services at 3:30. If

you have a couple of observations, we would be happy to hear from

you.

Ms. BROWN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for hosting this Committee meeting. I will just enter my comments for the record.

But I would like to just publicly say that I am very concerned

about the Administration’s proposal for railroads in this area. It is

a great concern that we spend billions on aviation but very little

on highways, waterways and railways. Of course, just last week

CEOs from many companies were in my office saying that they

wanted a 25 percent tax credit to expand their network. As we

come under just, I think it is next week, we just passed a year ago,

what happened in Madrid, and we look at the fact that we really

have not done anything in this Congress to address rail safety in

this Country. It is appalling. It really is appalling.

When I heard one former Secretary say to the extent that do we

need an independent investigation, no we don’t, we need Congress

to do their job. So I would encourage members on both sides of the

aisle to do their job as far as making sure that we talk about rail

infrastructure safety, but we follow up the rhetoric with the funds

needed to ensure that we put those safety measures in place.

With that, I yield back the balance of my time. Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, for holding this hearing.

Mr. LATOURETTE. Thank you very much. I am glad you could

make it.

For the record, Ms. Brown I know wanted to be here for the entire hearing. But she was listening to the Liberian president. My

understanding is she was one of the guests at the inauguration of

the president. So I am glad that you were able to be with us.

Ms. BROWN. Mr. Chairman, I was the only member of Congress

to attend that ceremony. She was just as elegant at that ceremony

as she was today. We need to do all we can to ensure that she is

very successful. She said they are a star in Africa, having the first

female president in an African country. Also, we have such strong

ties throughout our history. So that was wonderful.

Mr. LATOURETTE. That is wonderful. She probably likes RRIF

loans, too.

[Laughter.]

Mr. LATOURETTE. Mr. Boardman, I want to thank you very

much. I know not all the questions were pleasant but I think you

got sort of a bipartisan flavor that, at least on the Subcommittee

we think this is an important program and we hope that you will

take not only the letter but the spirit of the SAFETEA-LU observa-
17

tions as you move forward. Hopefully you will be granting a lot

more RRIF loans in the future.

So thank you very much.

[Whereupon, at 3:31 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
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