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26–747 PDF 2006

S. Hrg. 109–711

HURRICANE KATRINA: MISSISSIPPI’S RECOVERY

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

FIELD HEARING IN GULFPORT, MISSISSIPPI

JANUARY 17, 2006

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman 

TED STEVENS, Alaska 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

LINCOLN D. CHAFEE, Rhode Island 

ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah 

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico 

JOHN W. WARNER, Virginia 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK DAYTON, Minnesota 

FRANK LAUTENBERG, New Jersey 

MARK PRYOR, Arkansas

MICHAEL D. BOPP, Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

DAVID T. FLANAGAN, General Counsel 

JAMES R. MCKAY, Counsel 

JOYCE A. RECHTSCHAFFEN, Minority Staff Director and Counsel 

ROBERT F. MUSE, Minority General Counsel 

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Minority Professional Staff Member 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 1

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 3

Senator Coleman .............................................................................................. 12

Senator Dayton ................................................................................................. 14

Senator Coburn ................................................................................................. 16

Senator Pryor .................................................................................................... 18

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, JANUARY 17, 2006

Hon. Donald E. Powell, Coordinator of Recovery and Rebuilding in the Gulf 

Coast Region, U.S. Department of Homeland Security .................................... 4

Hon. Mary L. Landrieu, a U.S. Senator from the State of Louisiana ................. 19

Hon. Gene Taylor, Representative from the State of Mississippi, U.S. House 

of Representatives ................................................................................................ 22

Hon. Brent Warr, Mayor, Gulfport, Mississippi .................................................... 25

Hon. Edward A. Favre, Mayor, Bay St. Louis, Mississippi .................................. 28

Dr. Gavin Smith, Director, Governor’s Office of Recovery and Renewal, State 

of Mississippi ........................................................................................................ 31

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Favre, Hon. Edward A.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 28

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 59

Landrieu, Hon. Mary L.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 19

Powell, Hon. Donald E.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 49

Smith, Dr. Gavin: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 31

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 63

Taylor, Hon. Gene: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 22

Warr, Hon. Brent: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 25

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 53

(1)

HURRICANE KATRINA: MISSISSIPPI’S 

RECOVERY 

TUESDAY, JANUARY 17, 2006

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., at the Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College, Jefferson Davis Campus, 

2226 Switzer Road, Gulfport, Mississippi, Susan M. Collins, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Collins, Coleman, Coburn, Lieberman, Dayton, 

and Pryor. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

Senator COLLINS. The Committee will come to order. Good morning. Today the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and 

Governmental Affairs continues its investigation into the preparation for and response to Hurricane Katrina. The focus of our 10th 

hearing is on the status of recovery and rebuilding efforts in the 

State of Mississippi. 

I want to thank Mississippi’s two senators, the Congressional 

delegation and Governor and Mrs. Barbour for their advocacy. I 

particularly want to thank the First Lady for taking us on a helicopter tour today. It was very helpful to hear her firsthand commentary as we viewed the devastation from the air. 

I also want to very much thank my Senate colleagues for joining 

us here today. We have six Committee Members who are here, 

three Democrats and three Republicans showing this bipartisan 

concern. I want you to know that it’s very unusual when a field 

hearing is held to have more than one senator present, sometimes 

two, never six. And I think that is a comment about our Committee’s dedication to the task before us. 

I’m also extremely pleased to have with us today Senator Mary 

Landrieu from the neighboring State or Commonwealth of Louisiana. Senator Landrieu has been an advocate for the entire Gulf 

region, and I’m very pleased that she could join us in Mississippi 

today. 

Two weeks after Katrina struck some 4 months ago, Senator 

Lieberman and I, as well as Senator Landrieu, were among a group 

of Senators who toured this devastated region. We stopped in the 

town of Pass Christian, and I’ll never forget what I saw that day. 

The destruction was unimaginable. The suffering and the deprivation were heartbreaking. But the courage and the determination of 

2

the people that we met, as Governor Barbour puts it, ‘‘to build back 

better than ever,’’ were then and continue to be inspiring. 

At the time of our tour 4 months ago, I said that our first priority and our highest obligation were to help the Gulf Coast recover 

from this unprecedented natural disaster. The cooperation and the 

candor of those we met with back in September, and of those who 

have welcomed us here today, have greatly aided our understanding of what needs to be done. We, in Congress, need to hear 

firsthand the experiences, the good, the bad, and the ugly, of those 

seeking Federal assistance to rebuild their communities. 

Today when we toured the region again, the hard truth remains 

that the devastation is still beyond comprehension. We saw row 

after row of bare concrete slabs where neighborhoods once stood. 

We saw wreckage washed up far inland. We saw bridges, the Bay 

Bridge in particular, that once connected your communities that remain still washed away. We looked at the mountains of debris, and 

we heard that about two-thirds have been cleaned up. But there 

still is so much work to be done. And when I look at those mountains of debris, I realize that each contains all that is left of someone’s beautiful home or thriving business. 

I know that many people in Mississippi have seen that America’s 

attention has often been focused on Louisiana, and that’s understandable perhaps in light of the grievous damage that its residents have suffered, and indeed our Committee will be going to 

New Orleans this afternoon for a firsthand assessment. 

But I want to assure you that the losses in Louisiana in no way 

diminish the magnitude of the tragedy that you’ve endured or the 

difficulties, frustrations, and uncertainties that continue to plague 

your lives. I know that one newspaper expressed the fear that Mississippi would become the ‘‘Invisible Coast,’’ and I want to tell you 

of our personal commitment to make sure that all the residents of 

the Gulf Coast receive the attention, the support, and the assistance that they need in rebuilding their lives. 

Our Committee hopes, through a series of recommendations, to 

improve our Nation’s preparedness and response. We have already 

tried to be of assistance by sponsoring emergency legislation to increase the Federal reimbursement for the cost of the removal of the 

unfathomable amount of debris that still chokes too many streets 

and landscapes. But we appreciate that the Federal role is far 

greater than that and that it is a continuing role. Your needs are 

great and they are many. 

The final report of the Governor’s Commission on Recovery, Rebuilding, and Renewal lays out an ambitious and far-sighted plan 

intended to revive your community, to create new jobs, and to ensure that families will be in real homes as soon as possible. 

In my visits here, I have been struck first and foremost by the 

utter devastation that Katrina brought to your beautiful region. 

But equally powerful is the commitment of the people of this region 

to help one another overcome the crisis, surmount the obstacles, 

and rebuild for the future. Working together with a partnership 

among all levels of government, I know that the Gulf Coast will indeed be better than ever. Thank you so much for welcoming us 

here today. 

3

Senator Lieberman is the Committee’s Ranking Member. We 

work very well together, very closely together. And I’m very 

pleased to recognize him for some opening remarks. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LIEBERMAN 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thanks so 

much for leading our Committee here. It’s an honor, as always, to 

work with you. I thank the other Members of the Committee for 

coming here. 

I hope the people here in Mississippi and then later in Louisiana 

will take this group of Senators’ presence here as the most tangible 

expression of the continuing national interest and acceptance of 

America’s responsibility to help you overcome the effects of this disastrous hurricane. 

I thank Marsha Barbour for greeting us, for taking us up in that 

helicopter to see the Coast today. I would share the reaction of Senator Collins. She and I both came here just about 4 months ago, 

a couple of weeks after Hurricane Katrina hit. And we were 

stunned to see the devastation along the Mississippi Coast. Perhaps because the—New Orleans is a great American city, the focus 

of a lot of media attention was on it. It has suffered grievously, of 

course. But I don’t think we had a real awareness before we came 

4 months ago of how badly hit and devastated by extraordinarily 

high winds and rising waters the Gulf Coast of Mississippi was. 

And I must say, having just gone up in that helicopter today, 

what strikes me is how much work remains to be done. I suppose 

somewhere in the impractical recesses of my brain I thought that 

coming back here today I’d see a lot more going up. A lot of debris 

has been removed. That’s real important. There’s still a lot more 

yet to be removed. In some sense, perhaps because there’s a general impression in Congress that Mississippi is really organized 

well to deal with the problem, maybe I expected to see more rebuilding occurring. 

But this is by way of acknowledging what Senator Collins has 

said, that we’re all in this together. Federal, State, and local governments. We feel a national responsibility to help Mississippi get 

back to better than it was before Hurricane Katrina. And just seeing the Coast today tells me in a very powerful, personal way how 

much more we have to do. 

In that regard, there’s an intangible factor here, which is hope. 

And I hope that we can all reach out, and maybe in some small 

way our presence here today will help do that, to give hope to people who, after a period of time, are going to begin to lose it about 

their ability to return to where they were. And, of course, this just 

says to us that the basic mission that this Committee has, which 

is to oversee the work of the Federal Government in responding to 

Katrina, is a critical mission. 

We’ve appropriated well over $80 billion. And the question now 

is how is it being spent and can we move things more quickly to 

bring a reality that will raise people’s hopes. 

I understand—I thank the Members of the Congressional delegation. Gene Taylor is here. I believe he’s going to testify. Senator 

Cochran, Senator Lott, and the other Members of the House deleVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:19 Dec 13, 2006 Jkt 026747 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\26747.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
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1The prepared statement of Mr. Powell appears in the Appendix on page 49. 

gation have been extremely persistent and effective advocates for 

Mississippi. 

And we understand that you have special problems. That a number of people in Mississippi, 42 percent of all working families by 

one estimate I saw, are low income. And that’s the highest rate in 

the Nation. That puts a special burden on all of us to work together to try to raise people up after this devastation. 

Just a final word. Since we’ve been here, everybody’s been saying 

thank you for coming. I think we owe you a thank you for the way 

in which the people of Mississippi have pulled together and for the 

spirit of—for your spiritual strength, really, and for the hopefulness that I hope you will not let diminish as we go forward together to make this better. Thank you very much. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

I just am going to very briefly introduce the other Committee 

Members by name. To my left is Senator Norm Coleman of Minnesota. He’s a former mayor, has a special interest in the role of 

local government. 

To Senator Lieberman’s right, that’s not a usual position for you, 

is Senator Dayton of Minnesota. He’s been particularly concerned 

about the responsiveness of the Federal Government. 

To my far left is Senator Coburn, who is a physician by training 

and represents the State of Oklahoma. And he has a special interest in making sure that money is being well spent. 

To my right now is Senator Mark Pryor of Arkansas. Senator 

Pryor pointed out to me that his State on a per capita basis, I 

think, had taken in more evacuees from the Gulf Coast region than 

any other State. 

And, as I said, Senator Landrieu from Louisiana is also joining 

us today as an honorary Member of the Committee. 

I’d now like to welcome our first witness. Donald Powell was 

named by President Bush as the Federal Coordinator of Gulf Coast 

Rebuilding on November 1. His task, and it is an enormous one, 

is to develop a long-term rebuilding plan in conjunction with State 

and local governments in the entire region. It’s his responsibility 

to coordinate the Federal efforts and to assist State and local officials. Prior to this new and very challenging appointment, Mr. 

Powell served for 4 years as the chairman of the Federal Deposit 

Insurance Corporation. 

And I want to point out that in the immediate aftermath of 

Katrina, Mr. Powell, while still at the FDIC, took decisive action 

that helped banks and other financial institutions in the devastated region resume operations as quickly as possible. And that 

certainly assisted consumers during those very difficult times. 

So I want to thank you, sir, for your service and welcome you to 

the Committee, and I look forward to hearing your testimony. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. DONALD E. POWELL,1 COORDINATOR OF 

RECOVERY AND REBUILDING IN THE GULF COAST REGION, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. POWELL. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Collins, Ranking 

Member Lieberman, and distinguished panel Members. 

5

It’s a pleasure to appear before you today in Gulfport as the Federal Coordinator for Gulf Coast Rebuilding to discuss my role as 

Federal coordinator, the progress that we have made, and the challenges and opportunities we face in the immediate recovery and 

long-term rebuilding effort. 

The State of Mississippi is of great historical, cultural, and economic importance to this country, and we will make sure that her 

citizens get back on their feet and rebuild their lives. Whole communities throughout the Gulf Coast have been ravaged by Katrina 

and Rita, and I’m confident that together we will see a better tomorrow for our fellow Americans in the affected areas. 

Our job is to identify the priority of needs for long-term rebuilding by working with the people on the ground, communicating 

those realities to the decisionmakers in Washington, and advising 

the President and his leadership team on the most effective, integrated, and fiscally responsible strategies for a full and vibrant recovery. We will then help provide thoughtful and coordinated Federal support to the affected areas. 

The President has made it abundantly clear that the vision and 

plans for rebuilding the Gulf Coast should come from the local and 

State leadership, not from Washington, DC. This is not an exercise 

in centralized planning. However, we understand the importance of 

being good stewards of the substantial amounts of money that have 

been, and will continue to be, spent on this effort. We will ensure 

that any plans or strategies are conducive to the prudent, effective, 

and appropriate investment of taxpayer dollars. 

In order to rebuild after a natural disaster of this magnitude, the 

size of which our country has never experienced before, the first 

task is to recover. We have identified two key areas as critical path 

issues which must be resolved in order to move into the next stage 

of rebuilding in Mississippi. 

The first critical path issue is debris removal. After the Gulf waters subsided, Hancock, Harrison—where we are today—and Jackson Counties were left with more debris than the 1992 Hurricane 

Andrew and the 9/11 World Trade Center attack. A problem of this 

scale required strong local leadership. Governor Barbour and the 

local mayors, in partnership with FEMA and the Army Corps of 

Engineers, sprung into action. 

Today, I am happy to report that Mississippi has removed 27 

million cubic yards or almost two-thirds of the total debris. There 

is still a great deal of work to be done, but Mississippi is on the 

right track, with the goal of completion sometime this spring. 

The second critical path issue is to support evacuees through direct financial assistance and temporary housing. Hurricane Katrina left many of our fellow citizens stunned and uprooted, and 

the President believes it is the government’s duty to remind them 

that their country cares about them and that they are not alone. 

Of the 450,000 Mississippi residents who received disaster assistance following Hurricane Katrina, 280,000 were approved for direct 

or transitional housing assistance totaling $745 million. Another 

$300 million went to some 115,000 Mississippians for Other Needs 

Assistance, which helps with everything from unemployment assistance to relocation services to reuniting victims with their families. And finally, more than 100,000 Mississippians received rental 

6

assistance totaling approximately $230 million, which is going to 

pay for rent at apartments across the region. 

Mississippi has also done an extraordinary job of establishing 

and transitioning evacuees into temporary housing. Today less 

than 2,000 households remain in Mississippi hotel and motel 

rooms. FEMA is already providing more than 31,000 travel trailers 

to hurricane victims that are residing in the State. Nearly 11,000 

of these families in Harrison County, 8,000 in Jackson County, 

nearly 8,000 in Hancock County, and more than 2,500 in Forrest 

County. 

We still have very important work to do on these immediate 

issues, but we believe that things are moving in the right direction. 

I am encouraged every day by the strong leadership in this State 

and its successful partnership with Congress and the Administration. 

As we transition our efforts from immediate recovery to helping 

with long-term rebuilding, we must achieve three key objectives: 

Restoring long-term safety and security; renewing the region’s 

economy and creating growth opportunities; and revitalizing communities. 

Congress and the Administration have taken great strides to restore safety and security to Mississippi. The most important accomplishment is the $29 billion reallocation legislation which provides 

for $10 million for a comprehensive study of hurricane and storm 

protection and $620 million for flood and storm protection projects 

across Louisiana and Mississippi. 

The President, along with the Congress, has also been focusing 

on the renewal of the region’s economy. Last month the President 

signed into law the Gulf Opportunity Zones Act. The legislation 

will help revitalize the region’s economy by encouraging businesses 

to create new jobs and restore old ones. The law will also create 

new housing initiatives for workers to return home and will help 

finance new infrastructure to get the region moving again. Simply 

put, the law renews businesses, rebuilds homes, and restores hope. 

In terms of providing loans and working capital to small businesses and families, the SBA has also been working diligently to 

ramp up its capacity in response to the disaster. As of January 12, 

the SBA has approved over $2.64 billion in disaster loans to almost 

38,000 homeowners, renters, and businesses in the affected region. 

In Mississippi, the total has been over $1 billion; 12,000 home 

loans for $860 million and close to 2,000 business disaster loans for 

$170 million. 

Workforce development will also be critical to long-term economic 

security. The Secretary of Labor and I attended a meeting just before Christmas with the President, labor leaders, civil rights 

groups, and business associations to discuss workforce initiatives 

and overall employment issues facing the region. We tasked those 

leaders to devise a plan to prepare the workers of the region for 

the future of the Gulf Coast. 

We are also focusing on revitalizing communities. The ravaging 

winds and waters brought on by Hurricane Katrina claimed the 

homes of many along the Gulf Coast. Congress and the Administration have taken several steps to return old and invite new residents to Mississippi’s neighborhoods. 

7

The most direct of those steps is $11.5 billion in Community De- velopment Block Grants and $390 million in housing vouchers allocated to the people of the Gulf Coast in the recently passed $29 billion reallocation package. Mississippi plans to use the bulk of its 

share of the $11.5 billion to compensate affected under- or uninsured homeowners who resided outside of the flood plain. 

Aside from the housing aid and other public assistance, nearly 

400,000 inspections have been completed in Mississippi and 48,000 

roofs have been temporarily covered by FEMA’s Blue Roof program 

operated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. FEMA has provided 

over $1 billion directly to Hurricane Katrina victims in Mississippi 

through the Individuals and Households Program. In addition, 

13,800 Mississippians have received $1.8 billion in National Flood 

Insurance Program claims. These families are and will continue to 

fill the streets, schools, and places of worship that will be a critical 

component to the revitalization of this great State. 

Another important part of the community is the educational system. Education is the key to the future and lets every American 

reach his or her potential dream. Without education, we would not 

have the American ingenuity that has made our country so successful. Thus far, Mississippi has received $100 million to get its educational system up and running again since the storm hit. And 

schools who took in the displaced students outside the State are 

being reimbursed up to $6,000 per displaced student in general 

education and up to $7,500 for those in special education. 

The Administration and Congress have made good on the prom- ise by helping secure $1.6 billion for the schools that were hardest 

hit by the hurricanes. The U.S. Department of Education is expediting these resources so they can get to where they are needed as 

quickly as possible. Thus far, 93 percent of the schools in Mississippi are up and running. Overall, the Mississippi Department 

of Education reports that they have 22 schools that are closed and 

12 other schools that are open on a limited basis. One part of the 

building may be under repair, but another part is being used to 

educate the State’s learners. I applaud those efforts. As my good 

friend Secretary Spellings put it, ‘‘The education community’s response to Katrina has been overwhelming. Schools across the country have opened their doors and hearts to these children.’’

Community health is also important. That’s why the Department 

of Health and Human Services, along with other agencies, quickly 

streamlined their processes to help hurricane victims access the 

many Federal programs available immediately to help them get 

back on their feet, such as Medicaid, family assistance, child care 

support, foster care assistance, and mental health and substance 

abuse services. More than 40 percent of the storm’s evacuees living 

in a different zip code from the damaged areas received these types 

of benefits and services. 

In addition, the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, 

one of the Nation’s seven uniformed services, carried out the largest mobilization in its 207-year history by deploying more than 

1,400 officers to work with State, local, and private agencies in the 

hurricane-stricken States. America is committed to helping our citizens displaced by the storms by improving our government’s outreach and cutting red tape. 

8

Infrastructure is also a key component of any long-term recovery 

plan. Federal funds totaling $750 million are being used for infrastructure in Mississippi for repairs to damaged roads, bridges, and 

other transportation uses. I am glad to see the progress made with 

those monies here, such as the two lanes that have been completed 

from Debuys Road to English Place for a total of eight miles in the 

Long Beach-Gulfport region. 

And in Pass Christian, two lanes have been completed from 

Shadowlawn Drive to Henderson Avenue for a total of 3.7 miles. 

The I-90 is the next major thoroughfare to be rebuilt, and it will 

help restore the region’s transportation network. Virtually all 

major freight lines are open, with the exception of the CSX Transportation line from New Orleans to Pascagoula. 

In terms of public transit, partial service has been restored in 

Gulfport, Biloxi, and the City of Picayune, with full service restored 

in Jackson. The nine airports that were damaged by the storm are 

now either fully operational or open, but may be limited to visual 

and daytime operations. 

The ports along the Mississippi Gulf Coast are also all now operating in some capacity, and we will continue to work to get them 

fully operational. Gulfport was the worst hit of all ports and has 

two piers that are back in operation. 

In closing, I would like to note that the Gulf Coast has a strong 

history of overcoming adversity caused by Mother Nature. Spanish 

explorers as far back as the 1500s wrote about how the area has 

experienced severe floods. But every time some type of natural disaster has hit, the people in this region have come back and come 

back stronger than before. Failure is not an option. As the President said last week, ‘‘When people are determined, they get things 

done.’’ He also repeated his promise to the region that it would ‘‘not 

just survive, but thrive.’’ He said, ‘‘we’re not just going to cope, but 

we will overcome.’’ Thank you. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you very much for your testimony. 

You have described your position as being the President’s eyes 

and ears but not his arms. I thought that was a very descriptive 

way to describe your job. Your position was created through executive order, not through legislation. 

Could you tell the Committee whether you feel that you have 

adequate authority to coordinate all the Federal resources to help 

in rebuilding? You don’t really have troops. You have the power of 

persuasion. You have the President’s confidence, but you do not, as 

I read the executive orders, have the ability to actually order an 

action. 

Mr. POWELL. Yes, no command and control. 

Senator, I’m convinced, and I believe in my short tenure of 40 

days or so that I have the complete support of all agencies and departments of the Federal Government. I have been in contact with 

every agency, every department within the Federal Government 

and have experienced great cooperation from the Department of 

Transportation, Education, to wherever it may be. 

As you said, I have the power of persuasion. And also the President is committed, everybody knows that the President is committed to rebuilding the Gulf Coast. I’m convinced that I can—and 

9

with the members of my staff, that we have the necessary resources to fulfill our mission. 

Senator COLLINS. Would it be easier to do your job if you had 

more specific authority over the allocation of resources and personnel? 

Mr. POWELL. At times, yes. At times it would be, absolutely it 

would be. But I don’t think that will restrict me from—I know it 

will not restrict me from expressing my views and thoughts. And 

I always have a sense of urgency about things, and I’m not shy as 

it relates to what I think needs to get done. And to date, the cooperation is extraordinary. 

Senator COLLINS. You mentioned in your testimony that some 27 

million cubic yards of debris have been removed at this point. 

FEMA’s most recent report to Congress suggests that there’s still 

some 19 million cubic yards yet to go. 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator COLLINS. And as we toured the area today, we could still 

see mountains of debris, really widespread cleanup problems. This 

was also an issue that has been raised to us by Mississippi’s two 

Senators and by people in the region, the Governor and his wife as 

well. 

In your view, is sufficient Federal funding and effort allocated toward debris removal? And can you give us any idea of any time 

line for completing the basic cleanup? 

Mr. POWELL. I am in constant contact with the local people. The 

governor and I talk often. I have visited with four mayors along the 

Gulf of Mississippi within the last 10 days. There’s always a certain level of tension and frustration about debris removal. 

The laws that are on the books today sometimes serve as—

there’s just tension between the private property rights and there’s 

tension between the debris and the removal of debris issue. But—

and part of it also is, I think, the mayors’ concern about doing the 

right thing. I mean, they have also the tension of getting the debris 

and they have the tension of are they going to be audited 6 months 

from now, 2 years from now, or 3 years from now. And they want 

to follow the law. 

Empowering people to make decisions in the field, Senator, is 

terribly important. The mayors know their communities better 

than anybody else. Allowing them to make decisions about hiring 

and firing contractors is critically important. So when I sit and talk 

to them, I try to facilitate those decisions that will empower them 

to make the best decision for their communities. And there are 

times that I see we can do it better. But I’m convinced that, again, 

as I said, the mayors are the right people to make those decisions. 

The State officials are the right people to make those decisions. 

And I think the resources are there. It’s a matter of just getting 

it done and also complying with all the rules and regulations and 

laws is mind boggling as it relates to that in just my short tenure. 

Coming from the banking business, I understand and appreciate 

that, but somehow we’ve got to empower those people to make decisions based upon facts as they see them, understanding that 

they’re going to make some bad decisions. 

But to answer your question directly, as I said in my testimony, 

the majority of the public debris will be removed, and the private 

10

issues, the private debris is another issue, but I think also that will 

be done perhaps in the late summer or early fall. 

Remembering as I said in my testimony, in Hurricane Andrew—

the three counties here had more debris than Hurricane Andrew 

and the 9/11 tragedy combined, and it took them 2 years. 

Senator COLLINS. The March 15 deadline that’s been talked 

about for removing most of the debris is a very important one because that’s the date by which the 100 percent Federal reimbursement expires, so I think it’s really critical—— 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator COLLINS [continuing]. That we reach that deadline. 

Senator Lieberman. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Mr. Powell, thanks for being here. Thanks for accepting the 

President’s call to service. It’s been a real pleasure for me personally to get to know you in this work. Somehow I never got to meet 

you when you were head of FDIC, so it’s been a pleasure here. 

I do want to briefly say that I think Senator Collins raised some 

really important questions about the authority of your office, and 

we should continue that discussion because, again, just coming 

away from seeing what an enormous task it’s going to be, and it’s 

not going to happen overnight, to rebuild right here on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. The question is honestly whether the President 

needs somebody in your position, yourself, to not only be his eyes 

and ears but also be his arms because Hurricane Katrina, by my 

estimate, is the largest humanitarian crisis America’s had probably 

since the Great Depression. I know we’ve had terrible hurricanes. 

We had the attacks of 9/11. But in terms of the scope of the impact 

on our country, I can’t think of one larger since the Great Depression, so I’d like to continue that discussion. 

I’d like to ask you a few questions that we’ve heard from a local 

level right here in Mississippi, and my guess is we’ll hear them on 

the second panel, which includes a couple of mayors. The first is 

about the flood maps and elevations, but probably you’re familiar 

with this question. 

And I’ve now heard two different reactions to the advisory flood 

plain guidelines developed by FEMA. The mayors, who will testify 

later, have told us, and I presume will again, that many of their 

citizens will simply not be able to afford to rebuild at the base flood 

elevations, the specific heights required in FEMA’s advisory guidelines. Others praise the new maps and advisory guidelines because 

they acted quickly, FEMA did, in getting them out, and they’ve 

given the residents some sense of standards that they should be 

building to. 

Do you believe that FEMA is on the right track or are you also 

concerned about the adverse impact on the ability of many, particularly low and middle income homeowners, to rebuild? 

Mr. POWELL. I think FEMA is on the right track, Senator, but 

I am concerned about your latter point. But we’re not going to be 

able to rebuild until those maps get out in the marketplace. 

I think that’s the reason the advisory maps were important for 

some of these people who are ready to rebuild, and unless they get 

a building permit, they can’t begin construction. And the city is not 

going to give them a building permit until those maps are out 

11

there. So I think it’s important those maps be in the marketplace, 

but I also share your concern about the cost associated with rebuilding. And I’m going to look at some—I think there may be 

some Federal programs that would assist some of those folks in 

that rebuilding effort. 

Remember, too, that Congress is going to be looking at the whole 

flood insurance issue, which I will tell you probably that will call 

for increased premiums. So if the homeowners are going to have to, 

first of all, spend more money on rebuilding, and then he or she 

is going to have to spend more money on premiums, so they’re 

going to have an economic double whammy there. In order—certainty, we’ve got to give these people certainty so they can get on 

with their lives. 

We have a meeting right after this hearing this afternoon in this 

community that we have invited, through the mayors, the local 

mayors, bankers, insurance agents, building inspectors, code enforcement folks, and we’re going to try and bring clarity to a lot of 

questions that people are asking. I think that’s my role here to get 

that done. 

But I think FEMA is on the right—they’ve got to issue these 

flood maps. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. I appreciate your answer and particularly 

your opening of the possibility of some Federal assistance—— 

Mr. POWELL. Yes. 

Senator LIEBERMAN [continuing]. To those low and middle income homeowners—— 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator LIEBERMAN [continuing]. Who cannot build to the new 

standards, and I think we should work together on that. 

The other local concern that we’ve heard, and I presume will 

hear again, is this terrible box that the communities are in with 

enormous responsibilities, but because of the impact of the hurricane, there is a devastated tax base. And, actually, folks turn to 

us at the Federal level, and I don’t have a quick answer to that. 

I wonder if you’ve thought about it. 

And is there any Federal role in trying to assist local communities devastated by Katrina over this period in their history when 

they just don’t have the tax base to raise the money to do what 

they need to do? 

Mr. POWELL. Community Development Block Grants, there’s 

some other government programs. Being new in this area, I’ve got 

someone who has done nothing but looking at ways to meet that 

need that you’re talking about. But, ultimately, the most important 

thing, Senator, is rebuilding their lives. 

And that’s the reason it gets back to debris removal, it’s housing. 

I told the President it’s housing, housing, housing, which then 

equals jobs and economic activity into the tax base. Until these 

people can begin to live, can begin to rebuild, which will create 

jobs, tax base, the economy. These cities will come back. I know 

there are some areas that they’re beginning to rebuild. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Do you think that we have ended the appropriation of Federal money in response to Katrina or will there be 

a need for more beyond the $85 billion? I gather the $25 billion has 

12

pretty much been spent, from what I’ve heard, and there is $60 billion in various stages of the pipeline. 

Mr. POWELL. Senator, I’m not sure. I haven’t done the math. 

Hopefully, that will be enough. The homeowner—what Governor 

Barbour is doing, as I mentioned in my testimony, with the Community Development Block grants will put money in the hands of 

the uninsured. I think that’s a big, big step, a huge step. There are 

different challenges in Louisiana as relates to that. There’s more 

infrastructure needs in Louisiana. I’m not sure. Hopefully it is 

enough. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Fair enough. I appreciate the answer. I 

think we’ve all got to stay involved here. And if there is a need for 

more money, then we’ve got to be willing to work together to provide it. Because the fresh development today is that this is unfinished national business, and we’ve got to stick with it until it’s 

done. Thank you very much. 

Mr. POWELL. Thank you. 

Senator COLLINS. Senator Coleman. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLEMAN 

Senator COLEMAN. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and Senator 

Lieberman, thank you for your focus, your leadership, your commitment. It really is extraordinary. This merits that. They say sometimes you have to see it to believe it. I have seen it, and it’s still 

pretty hard to believe. The sense we have amongst us was that 

there was a bomb and a massive war zone, and the devastation 

really is overwhelming. 

I thank you for your service, and I appreciate your perspective 

that you noted that mayors and the State officials are the people 

to make the decisions, we appreciate that. 

Certainly the Federal Government, in particular FEMA, took a 

real hit in Katrina post actions, and there are questions of competency. What’s your assessment now in terms of local officials and 

folks on the ground and their sense of the Federal effort? 

Mr. POWELL. I think it’s mixed, Senator, and literally it depends 

upon the subject matter. I think there’s a lot of frustration. But I 

think—and as we go forward, it gets better. I hear a lot of frustration about the SBA. As a former banker, I can appreciate it and 

understand that. Having said that, in talking to the officials at the 

SBA, I think there’s some constraints that they have on themselves. My idea of that, again, the more you can put it in the hands 

of bankers to make those decisions, they know the communities, 

they know the creditworthiness of their people. They can act fast. 

But the law didn’t permit that to happen except up to $150,000 in 

some cases to meet those needs. 

I think debris removal is another issue there’s always frustration 

about. Again, local decisions empowering the people in the field, 

and that would be Federal officials also. The more we can empower 

those people to make decisions without checking with someone, the 

better off we would be. 

I used to have the saying in banking, ‘‘a quick no is better than 

a 2-week yes.’’

Senator COLEMAN. If there are legislative barriers, if there are 

institutional barriers, I would hope, even though you don’t have 

13

command and control, that you have the sense that you can talk 

to us and others, but don’t allow the bureaucracy to kind of feed 

that frustration. 

Mr. POWELL. Right. I will express my views on that. 

Senator COLEMAN. You mentioned CDBG. I just want to touch on 

that. 

A question was asked about the continued Federal role and some 

of the things we can do different. CDBG is a valuable source to 

folks at the local level. When you talk about CDBG funding, are 

you talking CDBG within the existing process which has a finite 

limitation on dollars, when, in fact, many of us have been involved 

in trying to increase funding, trying to avoid cuts, or are you talking about the CDBG process with some of the Katrina money as 

a separate pot? 

Mr. POWELL. The latter. As I understand it, the $11.5 billion that 

Congress approved for those grants, and the law, I think, has 

passed, no one could receive more than 54 percent. Then working 

with the Secretary of HUD, that money goes to the Secretary of 

HUD, and he develops the guiding principles that the States can 

use, what they can use that money for. Again, as I mentioned, Mississippi has already indicated what they will use that money for. 

Senator COLEMAN. With all the needs—and obviously debris removal is something that we were talking about here. As you look 

into the future, when it’s rebuilt, it’s got to be rebuilt right. The 

Governor’s commission has done an excellent job of tapping into 

local perspective in laying out a vision. But turning that vision into 

reality is sometimes very challenging. There are folks at the local 

level planning, just basic planning and turning that into reality, 

and those are the things which there aren’t a lot of dollars for. I 

mean, you have got many needs, you have got to take care of them. 

Mr. POWELL. Yes. 

Senator COLEMAN. How do you help local communities do their 

piece, do the planning so that in the end when it’s done, it really 

is done right? 

Mr. POWELL. Well, I think the model that Mississippi used, and 

I applaud the Mississippi model, is their planning process, the Governor appointed Jim Barksdale to lead their commission. It was a 

centralized effort. And he reached out by issue and had team members for the issue, be it economic development or health issues or 

education issues, and had folks come in. They had a master plan. 

I think they did a very good job. But that was funded by private 

resources. 

So I think cities are going to find, if they cannot get the Federal 

Government to assist them in the planning, that it will be an opportunity for some private charitable organizations to fund those. 

And I think the money’s out there for that need. 

I think, for instance, the City of Gulfport, if they need some external money as it relates to their planning process, I think there 

are charitable foundations that would be willing to assist them. 

And I think also there are firms pro bono who would be willing to 

assist those communities also. 

But the State has one central, one vision, one plan that they are 

implementing. And they did it in a relatively short period of time, 

and there was extraordinary leadership there. 

14

Senator COLEMAN. Oftentimes the further you get away from the 

event itself, the lesser the outside focus. 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator COLEMAN. National, international focus, volunteers, and 

private sector—as we look into the future—I understand this is a 

very long-term effort. 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator COLEMAN. Are those private dollars, foundation dollars, 

that outside generosity are still flowing in this direction? 

Mr. POWELL. It is. I receive calls, Senator, from time to time, not 

like I did when I first started the job, but I receive calls not only 

from individuals, but from foundations saying they want to help. 

Where are the gaps? Where is the government not going to meet 

the needs? What can I do? They want to send people to help, which 

is another little bit of an issue from an ethics standpoint. I can’t 

accept volunteers that have technical expertise. I talk to them a 

lot. But that’s important. There are people willing to help. There 

are foundations that are willing to help. And they’re very genuine. 

So I think there’s still foundations out there that would do that. 

Senator COLEMAN. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Dayton. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR DAYTON 

Senator DAYTON. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I want to thank 

you and the Ranking Member for your leadership on this Committee and bringing us here today. Thank you very much. 

Coordinator Powell, I thank you for taking on this Herculean 

task. I understand that you have been here just in the latter part 

of this effort to date. 

I was told on the way over here that the most popular bumper 

sticker right now around here is FEMA, Federal Emergency My 

Ass. 

Mr. POWELL. I’ve seen those. 

Senator DAYTON. All right. Well, it doesn’t jibe with this data 

here, and I’m trying to figure out where is the disconnect. 

You talk about—and I’m not questioning the figures, but 280,000 

residents receiving $2,600 apiece for transitional housing and 

100,000 receiving rental assistance, that’s $2,300 apiece, 12,000 

home loans of SBA, $70,000 a house, 2,000 businesses asked for 

loans, $85,000 per business. It just doesn’t jibe. And I note here 

also that the—anticipating the future testimony of the Mayor of 

Bay St. Louis, that your life is already too complicated for those in 

need. 

We had them on a much smaller scale. Up in Northern Minnesota, the City of Roseau was devastated by flooding. And I had 

that perception myself, that these forms, the procedures, very bureaucratic, very cumbersome, and for people who are already 

stressed out, lost their home, lost their business, whatever, that we 

need to make this process simpler and faster for them. 

I think it’s critical that we get from you, and others that have 

been involved here, some really clear specific recommendations for 

what in the laws need to be changed and the regulations so we can 

clear out as much of that flotsam as possible for the future because 

if there’s ever a time when our citizens need government and need 

15

it to be there and be responsive immediately, it’s in the face of this 

kind of disaster. And I just don’t think that it seems that the people here feel that they’re getting that. 

Mr. POWELL. Senator, I would just add one thing. Empower the 

FEMA officials to make decisions. They tend to have accountability; 

they don’t have authority. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. The ones on the ground, you mean? 

Mr. POWELL. The ones on the ground. I’ve spent an all-day session talking with the FEMA folks because that’s what I’ve been 

doing, I’ve been talking to a lot of citizens. I would talk to the lady 

in the restaurant. I would talk to the guy repairing my shoes. I 

would talk to a lot of folks. And I asked them about what happened 

to their homes. Each of them has a unique story. Some of them are 

complimentary to FEMA, most are not. And it’s really a time 

frame. And when you ask—when you get down and ask them about 

what their specific frustration is, it’s common sense, Senator. 

But the law doesn’t allow FEMA to do that, make those decisions. I understand probably when the law was made, there were 

various issues. There’s always tension there. But what you get, you 

get paralyzed. They’re paralyzed in the field from helping people. 

And it’s terribly important to allow people to make decisions. 

And recognize and understand they’re going to make some bad 

decisions. But then when you have an auditor or an inspector general or whatever 2 or 3 years from now, you’re very careful. And 

what happens, that’s important too. It’s very important that we be 

wise and we be good stewards of taxpayers’ money. We’re all taxpayers. And that’s, I promise you, part of my focus. But it’s also 

important to help people and to meet their needs in a timely, efficient way. 

Senator DAYTON. Madam Chairman, I would submit that is one 

of the cruxes of the challenge we face and one of the—if there is 

going to be a silver lining to this enormously dark cloud, so that 

we can learn from your experience coming out of the private sector, 

see how we can free up so that we can accelerate the timetable in 

the future and simplify the process for the victims of these disasters. And I thank you for that. 

The recent issue of the National Journal says, and I’m quoting 

here, ‘‘Complaints about the structure of FEMA’s waste contracts’’—this is moving away these many tons of debris. And I was 

impressed, let me say, in the article about the care that’s going into 

segregating the hazardous materials and the like. I think that’s 

something that deserves a great deal of credit. It means things are 

going to take longer. But it says, ‘‘FEMA hires the Army Corps, 

which hires national contractors, who hire local subcontractors, and 

that guarantees that the hauling price will be marked up several 

times. Local haulers who are hired directly, critics contend, could 

do the job more cheaply. A FEMA official in Mississippi said the 

recovery’’—well, it starts another point. 

Is there some reason that there can’t be this direct contracting 

that would make it more cost effective? 

Mr. POWELL. No, sir. 

Senator DAYTON. All right. I almost stopped 51 seconds early. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Coburn. 

16

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COBURN 

Senator COBURN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

I want to kind of follow along that line. One of the things that 

Senator Coleman and I, as well as the Ranking Member and Chairman of this Committee, wanted to see was a Federal financial manager over all this reconstruction. And your answer in terms of, 

well, there is no requirement that they couldn’t have contracted directly with local contractors. Who’s in charge? Who makes the decision? 

The people of Mississippi would like to have the help, and not 

only are there fewer dollars spent on the people of Mississippi, but 

the time that it takes—by the time you go through four layers of 

bureaucracy in contracting versus the time you take from one 

layer. And so my question of the Administration, who’s in charge? 

Who makes the decision that we’re going to use four layers instead 

of one? 

Mr. POWELL. Well, again, you must remember, I’m new here 

about 30 or 45 days. Here’s my understanding. I think the mayors 

are empowered to make those decisions. Now, they may tell you 

that’s not right when they come up here. 

But part of it also is the intimidation factor, Senator. By that, 

I’m talking about the intimidation factor, they’re concerned about 

also when they issue a contract with the private sector, and then 

here comes an auditor 2 or 3 years from now, and they have liability and have money that they owe back to the Federal Government 

for mismanaging that contract, they’re going to take the path of 

least resistance. They’re going to say, I’m going to follow the standard and deal with the Corps where I’m protected and I have an insulation. Again, they can answer that better than I as relates to 

that, but I told a mayor last week, I said, fire the Corps and get 

the private sector. Now, that’s easy for me to say where I was 

standing. In the field, it’s probably there are some other things 

that I didn’t have an appreciation for and understanding as that 

mayor—as he or she takes responsibility for those actions. 

Senator COBURN. In your position—Senator Collins addressed 

this a little bit, but who is responsible down here for the overall 

Federal expenditures and response in Mississippi? 

Mr. POWELL. I can tell you who FEMA—— 

Senator COBURN. No. Who in the Administration is responsible? 

What the Senate was trying to do is have one person that all this 

went through that the State could look to and the Congress could 

look to and the government agencies could look to. We want a manager here that is making smart decisions—that could say, you can 

take help from volunteers, that you don’t have to contract through 

the Corps, and that word goes. In other words, to do it on a management basis on the basis of need and common sense instead of 

bureaucracy and incompetency. Who is responsible? 

Mr. POWELL. Well, it depends again on what issue you’re talking 

about. 

Senator COBURN. That was my whole point, there is not one person—— 

Mr. POWELL. Right. I mean, because it depends upon transportation issues, it depends upon health issues, it depends upon—— 

Senator COBURN. That’s exactly what’s wrong with the response. 

17

Mr. POWELL. That recovery as it relates to temporary housing, I 

can get specific. If you ask me certain things that if I don’t know 

the answer, I can find out specifically who is responsible for that 

issue. 

Senator COBURN. So my question to you, you have not been 

charged to be that person who is responsible for the Federal Government’s response in Mississippi? Also, you don’t have the authority to do that and you’ve not been charged with that? 

Mr. POWELL. I’m the coordinator. 

Senator COBURN. And your authority—— 

Mr. POWELL. I may not have responsibility, but I’m the coordinator. 

Senator COBURN. You have no authority? 

Mr. POWELL. Well, I have the power of persuasion and I have the 

power of the office itself, but I can’t—I cannot say, ‘‘Thou shall not 

do the following.’’ I do that. 

Senator COBURN. It would just seem to me that the people of 

Mississippi would love to have a web site and a person who was 

in charge for the Federal Government, and the people in the Federal Government would love to have a clearinghouse of one person. 

Mr. POWELL. Let me be sure, there’s a FEMA person that is in 

charge of Mississippi. There’s a FEMA that’s in charge of Louisiana. And then there are people, depending upon what you’re 

talking, flood maps, there’s a flood map person that’s in charge. 

There is a debris person that’s in charge. 

Senator COBURN. I understand. 

Mr. POWELL. All those. 

Senator COBURN. We’re running this just like we run the rest of 

the Federal Government without any basis in common sense. And 

it just would seem to me that the Administration would want to 

land the authority and the responsibility in the same place so that 

you could have one area where information flows and people can 

get answers. 

Mr. POWELL. Yes. 

Senator COBURN. In Washington. And the big answer is that you 

can’t get an answer to the question. What is the Administration’s 

answer to the fact that nobody can get an answer? 

Mr. POWELL. Well, let me just tell you, if you have a question for 

any of the people of Mississippi, I’m going to be able to answer that 

question. They may not like the answer, but I’m going to answer 

it. And I’m going to find the person, individual, entity that can answer those questions. 

Senator COBURN. But there is not a one-stop shop? There is 

not—and there’s not a web site up where they can go and find out, 

here’s the answer to the 100 most commonly asked questions by 

the people of Mississippi in relation to this disaster? There’s not a 

web site up that says here’s where our money is being spent and 

here’s how efficiently it’s being spent? And people can track where 

their money is being spent. There’s no information out there where 

they can actually see it, the people of Mississippi? 

Mr. POWELL. I think there is—again, I should not be saying this, 

I’m not sure it’s true, but I think you could find it on the FEMA 

web site and the Department of Homeland Security how much 

18

money has been spent toward different issues. I mean, I got that 

information. 

Senator COBURN. Madam Chairman. Thank you. 

Senator COLLINS. Senator Pryor. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PRYOR 

Senator PRYOR. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I really don’t 

have any questions, just a couple comments. And that is that these 

are real people we’re talking about here, and these are lives and 

communities that need to be put back together. And I would just 

encourage you and your office to carry the message back to whoever you need to carry it back to; please try to straighten things 

out because we flew over today, 41⁄2 months after the storm hit, 

and I know people in this area are working around the clock. 

They’re doing the very best they can do given what they have to 

work with. And they still have a long way to go. And they need 

their Federal Government. They need their State Government, 

their local governments to all be working together and working 

smart. And my impression is that the Federal Government is really 

the problem. And I don’t think it’s always been that way at FEMA. 

I think back in the days when James Lee Witt ran that agency, 

you didn’t hear these type of complaints. I mean, it wasn’t perfect, 

but one thing he did is he empowered people on the ground to 

make decisions. And like you said, sometimes they make the wrong 

decisions, but he empowered them on the ground to make decisions. There is nothing in Federal law that says they can’t do that. 

The way I look at it is, it’s a problem for the leaders in FEMA and 

probably Homeland Security. And it’s a problem with the priorities 

that they have and sort of the culture that’s there right now. 

James Lee Witt had a culture where he had a can-do attitude. He 

wanted people on the ground that had can-do attitudes. They were 

going to get down there and work it out and work through it, and 

they’d figure out all the audits and all that stuff later. FEMA 

would come back and help the cities, the counties, the State, etc. 

with that as well. But the idea was to serve people and help people. 

And I think somehow or another in the last few years that’s been 

lost. So I would just encourage you to carry that message back and 

work with us. Because I know that our Chairman and Ranking 

Member, they’re going to work this Committee pretty hard this 

year to try to make things a lot better at Homeland Security, make 

things a lot better at FEMA, and try to do the right thing for the 

Gulf Coast. 

Mr. POWELL. Senator, I appreciate that, and I will do that. 

And just one comment. There are some wonderful, dedicated public servants in FEMA. I’ve met them. They have been working tirelessly. They don’t see their families. They don’t get paid overtime. 

They get paid overtime, but it’s reversed back. 

They too have frustrations. There are some things, and as other 

members of the panel have suggested which I will do, about some 

laws that can be changed that will help them do their job. But 

there are some wonderfully dedicated public servants that I have 

a new appreciation for after sitting down and talking to them and 

listening to them. I’ve spent lots of time listening to them. I was 

19

in Baton Rouge Saturday all day listening to the FEMA folks, but 

your point is well taken, and I will do that. 

Senator PRYOR. Well, I agree with what you’re saying. There are 

a lot of fine public servants there because I’ve met some of them, 

too. We’ve met some of them in the Committee. 

Back when folks from Louisiana and Mississippi were flooding 

into Arkansas in early September of this year, I met some of them 

there, too. 

And a lot of these were not full-time FEMA people; they are minutemen, so to speak. They sprang into action; their heart, their 

dedication was amazing. And they had a lot of frustrations. And 

that frustration is really unnecessary. And you come out of the private sector, you know this. In the private sector if you don’t fix it, 

you go out of business. 

And that ought to be the approach that FEMA takes. If they 

can’t fix it, they need to get new people in there who can. 

Thank you. 

Mr. POWELL. I agree. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Landrieu. 

TESTIMONY OF SENATOR MARY L. LANDRIEU, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you. Just briefly. I’d like to support 

the comments made by my colleague Senator Pryor. He couldn’t 

have said it any better, so I won’t repeat it. 

But having said that, I also want to agree with you, Chairman 

Powell, there are some very good people in FEMA that are here on 

the ground and have been and are trying to help. But, clearly, the 

system needs to be improved substantially. And I think your ability 

and the willingness that you’ve shown here in Mississippi and in 

Louisiana to listen so that you can make some tough suggestions 

to this Committee would be extremely helpful to that effort. 

I want to thank the Chairman and the Ranking Member for 

working so hard in such a truly bipartisan way to fix so many of 

the things that are broken or not in place to help the people of our 

two States that are suffering the worst natural disaster. Not to 

leave out Alabama and Texas, but the bulk of the destruction, as 

you know. And truly their effort is without peer in the Congress. 

And having known both of these leaders for so long, I just want to 

publicly thank them for their tremendous and sincere spirit and 

the work of their staff. 

Let me ask just a few questions briefly. One, we have a tendency 

in Washington, which I think is wrong, to try to say one size fits 

all for everything we do. One kind of this, one kind of that. 

Everybody’s got to use it. 

Based on your experience on the ground along the Gulf Coast 

from Texas, Mississippi, and Alabama, could you just share with 

the Committee your one or two observations of the differences of 

the destruction so that this Committee could focus a little bit, not 

that they don’t, but even a better focus of the kinds of different 

strategies that we might need to look for over the next year particularly as we continue this strong, hopefully stronger Federal 

partnership. So in terms of the destruction between—and I’m not 

looking at how many houses or anything, but just your sense of 

20

does this one size fit all approach work or should we have a little 

different strategy for Louisiana or Mississippi in certain areas? 

What are your thoughts about that? 

Mr. POWELL. Yes. The uniform notion that I—and I continue to 

repeat it—I think that strategy for rebuilding needs to be a local 

decision. The President made that very clear to me, and I agree 

with that assessment. I think it’s very important that the local people plan their future. 

Mississippi is different than Louisiana. I always say West Texas 

is different than East Texas. In Louisiana, you have the levee system. You don’t have the levee system per se in Mississippi or Alabama or Texas. The levee sent—just that issue itself, one size 

doesn’t fit all. It was overwhelming to me, terribly complex about 

the levee system. I discovered everybody is an expert in the levees, 

as I shared with you. 

But that issue of how to rebuild the levee systems and how to 

protect against future hurricanes is very complex. It involves more 

than levees, as you know, Senator. It involves canals, it involves 

pumping stations, it involves wetlands, the whole hurricane protection. And Congress has allocated some money that we need to 

spend to look at the entire question of how do we prevent future 

hurricanes such as Katrina. 

Mississippi has unique challenges because, again, that was the 

surge—the storm surge that we’ve never seen before in our history. 

So there are unique challenges as it relates to that. And the cultures of the two States, obviously, are different. And in Louisiana, 

you have the levee boards. In Mississippi, the local governments all 

have a mayor—and it’s more complicated in Louisiana. So it presents different challenges as relates to not only hurricane protection, but how you deal with local authorities. One size probably 

doesn’t fit all sizes. 

Senator LANDRIEU. And let me just say I appreciate that because 

I think sometimes in Congress we look to, well, if it’s working here, 

why isn’t it working there. And I think what I’d like to observe is 

the Chairman has quickly appreciated the differences between the 

States as the waters have been higher in certain areas, first from 

flood surge and second from levee breaks. 

The final question—and I don’t want to take too much time. 

Have you given some thought on the flood insurance and mortgage 

issue, which is so frustrating to people? As you know, the greatest 

asset that most Americans own is their home, and whether your 

home was $100,000 or $1 million, it was your home. 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator LANDRIEU. And it’s gone. 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator LANDRIEU. And when you are fortunate enough to be 

able to collect your insurance, if you had a mortgage, it goes to the 

mortgage company. 

Mr. POWELL. Right. 

Senator LANDRIEU. And you’re there then with a house you can’t 

live in. The plans aren’t there. Have you given thought as this 

Committee evaluates a better flood control or flood insurance system of how we could make more universal this system so that it’s 

affordable to everyone in America? It might not just be flood, it 

21

could be catastrophic loss, which would cover everyone, share that 

risk, given the population of the country, two-thirds live within 50 

miles of the coast by year 2015. If you don’t live by the coast, you 

either live on a mountain that you could get a rock slide or you live 

in a place that could have an earthquake. Have you given any 

thought to really a real reform of that system so that we could, in 

the long run, rebuild out? And that will be my last question. I’ll 

submit the rest for the record. 

Mr. POWELL. I’ve had some initial thoughts, Senator. A couple of 

observations. First of all, it needs to be based upon science. And 

it needs to be updated. I mean, the world is changing, and as you 

know, some of the flood maps have not been spoken to since 1980s. 

It needs to be updated. It needs to be based upon science. And then 

it needs to be based upon risk. 

As you know, the U.S. Congress, taxpayers have spent in excess 

of—I can’t recall how much money, but the flood insurance program now is broke. I mean, if it’s an insurance company, it has an 

insufficient net worth. It’s paid out claims, so the premiums don’t 

allocate and don’t cover it. And we may as a country decide we 

want to subsidize that, but the policy should be the same. 

Also, I think another crime is that the $250,000 limitation is not 

applicable to today. Clearly, there are some homes that have value 

in excess of $250,000. So that needs to be looked at. The entire 

flood insurance program needs to be reviewed. And I think Congress has admitted to that. Where did I read or hear that Senator 

Shelby or somebody is looking at that on the Senate side and some 

others on the House side are looking at that? Clearly it needs to 

be based upon science. It needs to be updated. And we need to look 

at the current economics of it. That’s very important. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Mr. Powell, I want to thank you for your testimony, but most of 

all, I want to thank you for taking on a very difficult task. 

I think we’re very fortunate that the President tapped you for 

this responsibility, and I appreciate all of your hard work and your 

dedication, most of all your caring and compassion. 

I want to leave you today with a line that I heard on our tour 

this morning. What I was told is the Federal Government gives 

Mississippi deadlines but not answers. 

And I think that sentence sums up the frustrations and the concerns that we have heard and that you’ve heard in our questions 

today. So I hope that you will continue your efforts to make sure 

Mississippi gets answers, not just deadlines, from the Federal Government. And I thank you very much for being here today. 

Mr. POWELL. Thank you. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

I’d now like to call forward our second panel of witnesses. I have 

very long, flowery, gracious introductions that I’m going to dispense 

with in the interest of time, and instead, without slighting our distinguished witnesses, I’m just going to give them one-line introductions. 

Congressman Gene Taylor represents the areas in Mississippi 

most devastated by Hurricane Katrina and has been a forceful advocate for Federal assistance to rebuild the Gulf region. 

22

Brent Warr is the Mayor of Gulfport, and he had been mayor for 

less than 2 months when Katrina struck. 

Edward Favre is in his fifth term as Mayor of Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, which was devastated by Katrina. 

And despite the brevity of my introductions, I’m truly grateful for 

you all being here today. And we will start with Congressman Taylor. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. GENE TAYLOR, REPRESENTATIVE FROM 

THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you. I want to thank such a distinguished 

panel for being with us today. Welcome to South Mississippi. I wish 

the circumstances were better. I wish the weather was better for 

you, but I’m very grateful that 7 percent of the U.S. Senators saw 

fit to be here today. 

On August 28, a storm of unprecedented proportions, as you 

know, hit our area. And I guess the reaction on the part of our nation certainly could and has to be better next time. 

On Tuesday afternoon, I went to our County EOC and saw my 

hometown mayor, Mayor Favre, saw the mayor of the next adjoining town, Tommy Longo, saw the president of our county board of 

supervisors sitting on the step of the flooded out EOC filthy dirty. 

Near this television camera is a guy who has taken a stove out 

in the street hooked up to a propane tank and was cooking on a 

pot that probably holds 10 gallons of something. And I hadn’t eaten 

that day. And he said, ‘‘Do you want something to eat?’’ Quite 

frankly, knowing other people were much worse off than I was, I 

said, ‘‘No, no, I don’t need to eat, but by the way, where did you 

all get that?’’ They said, ‘‘We looted it. We stole it from the WalMart.’’

And I look at him, and I’m thinking they’re kidding. He said, 

‘‘No, we have sanctioned looting of the Winn-Dixie grocery store, 

the Sav-A-Center grocery store, and the Wal-Mart.’’ He said, ‘‘By 

the way, you look kind of dirty. You need a change of clothes?’’ 

They had a bunch of T-shirts hanging over the rail for the handicapped accessible ramp. That’s the situation that we walked into 

Tuesday, to give you just how bad it was. 

So, as Michael Brown was having his staff making reservations 

at the best steakhouse in Baton Rouge, this is what the people in 

Hancock County are doing. 

Knowing that we had troubles, like many of you fortunate 

enough to be on the Armed Services Committee, my first thought 

is, OK, I need to call the Pentagon. But no phones. In Hancock, 

Mississippi, it’s a county of 40,000 people, there was one phone. 

Thank goodness the Mississippi National Guard had staged three 

or four people. Their one satellite phone still works. And so I can’t 

call my governor. The phone link is out to Jackson. I can’t call the 

bases just 20 miles from us, but I could call the Pentagon with the 

great help of Lieutenant General Stephen Blank. Immediately the 

National Guard is doing something, calling Admiral Mullin, CNO. 

Immediately he’s having ships transferred to off the Mississippi 

Gulf Coast. 

23

But what I have to leave you with is the horrible lack of communication. Picture yourself in the exact same circumstances. You’re 

someone people look to to be able to solve problems for them, and 

you can’t talk to anyone. You can’t call your own governor. You 

can’t call the bases just 20 miles away. 

As you saw, the bridges between my county and the adjoining 

counties are knocked out. So what used to be a 20-minute drive, 

with all the trees being down and the power lines being down, you 

don’t know that you can get there. And, by the way, there’s no electricity for 180 miles. There’s no fuel for that because the evacuees 

have used up most of it leaving. And now they are trying to get 

fuel to come back. 

When you ask FEMA where are the MREs, the answer is—and 

let me tell you how close I came to strangling people with my own 

hands. The answer every time was, ‘‘It’s in the pipeline.’’ ‘‘Where’s 

the water?’’ ‘‘It’s in the pipeline.’’

Something that Michael Brown never fathomed was the importance of ice because when you lose your electricity, what’s in your 

freezer becomes your store for the next week or so. And what the 

ice does is allow you to let that thaw out at a slow rate so that 

it doesn’t all thaw out at once and you don’t have to throw the rest 

of it away. 

It buys you about a week to take care of yourself. Where you saw 

people’s houses are gone, therefore, their freezer is gone. There is 

no electricity. 

By the way, the saddest moment of the entire thing, in days of 

sad moments, my hometown undertaker comes to me with tears in 

his eyes. A guy I’ve known all my life. And says, I have got bodies 

stacked up in my funeral parlor. I’ve got no electricity. I’m going 

to have to start leaving them on the sidewalk. What can you do? 

Now, wisely our head of Mississippi Emergency—by this time, a 

few ice trucks had made their way in. They did not want to sell 

because there was lots of money to be made hauling ice. And he 

sees a truck. No charge. 

I know a number of you served in the Armed Services—and, 

again, we need to brag on our National Guard. But something that 

FEMA entirely missed was that half the Mississippi National 

Guard was in Iraq on the day of the storm. The half that was home 

had left every stick of equipment they brought to Iraq in Iraq. So 

our engineering unit, which did a magnificent job when they 

showed up, they showed up about 2 days after the storm. 

They were operating with only two-thirds of the equipment that 

they had the day they went to Iraq. 

One of FEMA’s responses was, ‘‘We’re not sending out food to 

any more than one location until the National Guard shows up.’’ 

They didn’t know the National Guard was in Iraq. 

Not everything went poorly. 

But there were still snafus. Again, Admiral Mullin did a wonderful job of getting a large amphibious assault ship about 20 miles 

south of here that we could use as a temporary hospital. He also 

sent the Navy ship USS Comfort to Pascagoula, Mississippi, but because of a snafu with the State Department of Health, the State 

Department of Health had banned local ambulance service from 

bringing patients to the USS Comfort. Again, that’s just insane, 

24

and that’s something that there ought to be some sort of Federal 

law that overrides that, where if that ship is good enough to take 

the kids off a battlefield, it ought to be good enough for things that 

happen in the immediate aftermath of a storm. 

For days this went on. For days no one could tell you where the 

MREs were. No one could tell you where the water was. Again, 

there is no fuel, and what little fuel was coming down is going to 

the emergency responders. But even they don’t know when it’s 

coming, so they can’t ration their patrols. 

It was amateur hour with FEMA. 

I don’t know who got the first string, but South Mississippi sure 

as heck didn’t. 

Because the guys I dealt with, quite frankly, if I’d have been in 

a position to, I would have fired on the spot. 

So what’s the message I want to leave with you? Communications. By the Saturday after the storm, someone in the House administration had been good enough to find someone who is making 

their way to Mississippi to get me some handheld satellite phones. 

You can imagine putting yourself in this position. 

You’ve got now the second phone in Hancock County, and everyone has got to tell you something. So every time someone taps you 

on the shoulder and you move your head, you’ve lost contact. The 

next thing that happens is that you redial the number, only to be 

told by a prerecorded voice that you can’t call that number. That 

number happened to be the Pentagon. So it’s absolutely something—communications are incredibly important. 

And for those of you who serve on the Armed Services Committee, I’m thinking what if someone chooses to follow up with an 

attack in Korea. 

What if the Iranians decide this is the moment to move because 

we don’t have generators? We don’t have gas. We don’t know how 

many MREs we have. We don’t have water. Local hospitals are 

knocked out. And I’m told how hard it is to get a defense hospital 

in here or a defense mortuary in here. And so the thing I would 

really leave your Committee with is we have to be capable of doing 

both. 

Senator Landrieu raised an interesting point, and this is to follow on to where we are today with the insurance companies. I am 

a homeowner. My house is gone. There are pieces of my tin roof 

25 feet up in the air that I’ve left in the trees. My wind insurance 

company says it was all water. I point to the tin up in the trees. 

And they say, we’re not paying you anything. 

One of the few things our Federal Government has done very 

well is the Federal flood insurance program paid their claims. The 

private sector has found every excuse not to pay people. 

One of the things that I would ask those of you who serve on the 

Finance Committee to consider is we need to change it and just call 

it hurricane insurance. Not flood, not wind. If your house is gone, 

who gives a flip with whether the wind got it or the flood got it. 

We have to raise the levels. 

Right now the cap was $250,000. And for many in South Mississippi, I never would have dreamt I had a house over $250,000. 

I’m now in a position where I have no choice but to have a house 

over $250,000 if I want to rebuild. And if people can’t insure their 

25

1The prepared statement of Mayor Warr appears in the appendix on page 53. 

homes against the next storm, there’s going to be a great hesitation 

for them to rebuild. 

Last, I am so grateful to all of you, each and every one who voted 

for the package that passed in the days immediately before Christmas. It did include an unprecedented help for homeowners who 

lived outside the flood plain who had wind insurance but are being 

told that their companies won’t pay, who suffered damages, that 

with the help of Senator Lott, Senator Cochran, we will be able to 

help them up to the amount of their insurance or $150,000, whichever is less. But a decision has been made somewhere in the Mississippi government that unless a house was 51 percent destroyed, 

they’re not going to pay those claims. As the people who sent the 

money, I think we have the right to say that’s not what we had 

in mind. It ought to be based on claims, whether the person’s lost 

5 percent of their house or 100 percent of their house. 

This arbitrary number of 51 percent, if you’re a senior citizen on 

a fixed income, even with a small house, if it took three feet of 

water, you’re looking at the very minimum of $50,000 to have the 

insulation pulled out, the sheetrock removed, to have it rewired, 

have your floors done over, at the very least you’re looking at 

$50,000. And that may well be less than 51 percent of the value 

of your home. And if you’re on a fixed income and your insurer is 

telling you they’re not giving you any money, that’s a lot of money. 

Those are the people we wanted to help. And I would hope that, 

again, with a united voice, we’ll get the message to the bureaucrats 

somewhere that we need to be helping everyone. 

And, again, thank you for letting me be with you. Thank you 

very much for your very valuable time being here in South Mississippi. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Dr. Smith, I realized that I somehow skipped over you when I 

was introducing the panel. Dr. Smith is the Director of the Governor’s Office of Recovery and Renewal, which is the newly created 

office charged with implementing the recommendations of the Governor’s Commission in guiding disaster recovery policy and providing training, education, and outreach. My apologies. 

Mayor Warr. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. BRENT WARR,1 MAYOR, GULFPORT, 

MISSISSIPPI 

Mayor WARR. Thank you, Chairman Collins, Ranking Member 

Lieberman, and distinguished Committee Members, for the opportunity to speak with you today. I’d like to speak with you about the 

challenges the City of Gulfport faces in the aftermath of Hurricane 

Katrina. 

It is an honor to appear before this Committee, and I’m extremely grateful for the tremendous amount of time Congress has 

spent reevaluating pre- and post-storm efforts and for the resources 

Congress has allocated toward Mississippi’s rebuilding and recovery. 

Without question, the unprecedented amount of damage Hurricane Katrina caused in the City of Gulfport and along the entire 

26

Mississippi Gulf Coast has presented numerous challenges. While 

debris pick-up, temporary housing, and unemployment are a few of 

the obstacles that we have struggled to overcome in the months following Katrina, in my opinion, the three issues most prevalent on 

the minds of the Gulf Coast residents today are: One, is my insurance going to pay for my losses? Two, if not, do I rebuild or sell 

as is? And, three, if I put more money into or borrow money to repair my property, what will it be worth when I’m finished? 

South Mississippians are tired and frustrated and we’re looking 

for answers from the insurance companies and from the authorities 

establishing our base flood elevations. We are ready to rebuild, but 

only reasonable answers and expedient solutions to these questions 

will stimulate our recovery and ignite our citizens to begin rebuilding their homes and businesses. 

First and foremost, the disaster that occurred on August 29, 

2005, was not a flood, it was a hurricane. Therefore, damages 

caused by hurricane-driven water that occurred as a result of 

Katrina should be covered by homeowners’ policies or wind insurance. The insurance industry must be forced to recognize, accept, 

and perform to the commitments made to its customers, providing 

adequate pay for losses that occurred because of this hurricane. 

The City of Gulfport is extremely grateful to the Members of 

Congress and our Governor for their leadership and determination 

to assist those who live outside the flood zone and did not have 

flood insurance. The billions of dollars allocated toward the recovery will be a tremendous help, but we must caution officials, as the 

Congressman here said, about using subjective standards to determine who will receive the designated funds. While it has been suggested that such funds will be rewarded only to those residents 

outside the flood plain who had greater than 51 percent in flood 

damage, we should not forget about those who reside outside the 

flood plain that sustained less than 51 percent in flood damage. Everyone outside the flood plain should be covered for their uninsured 

loss, regardless of the amount of damage, since even the authorities 

who determine the flood plains were incapable of predicting the future flooding in these more elevated areas. 

Historically, people purchase the amount of insurance that’s required to own a home or a business. Most residents along the Gulf 

Coast were operating under the assumption that if they had purchased all the necessary insurance required to finance their property, they were covered for hurricane losses. The thinking was why 

would someone purchase flood insurance for property in an area 

that has never flooded? In our community, even some of our most 

experienced citizens that work in the insurance industry did not 

possess flood insurance because they had homes outside the flood 

zone. Flood insurance was not required in their area, and it had 

never flooded before. 

However, like many coastal residents, even the local insurance 

experts were surprised and completely unprepared when their 

homes were destroyed by hurricane-driven wind and water, and 

they were even more surprised to learn that they were not covered 

for such dramatic damage regardless of whether or not it was 

caused by a hurricane. 

27

It’s also important to mention those who are suffering because 

they could not afford flood insurance. Even though relatively inexpensive, there are many residents that lived in flood zones that did 

not purchase flood insurance for economic reasons. Unfortunately, 

we have learned of many instances where insurance companies 

that would have covered typical damage from a hurricane are refusing to pay out claims based on the claim that they incurred only 

flood damage. 

Hurricane Katrina was such an unusual and unparalleled event, 

that people should not be left to suffer the consequences for outcomes which were unforeseeable. There should be no debate on 

what came first, the wind or the water, because it really shouldn’t 

matter. This was a hurricane, and insurance companies should be 

held accountable for hurricane losses. 

While things are getting better every day here in Gulfport, we 

still have many questions to answer before residents can begin to 

rebuild their homes, their businesses, their churches, and their 

schools. These were devastated by the storm’s fury. And on the 

forefront is deciding how high or at what elevation residents will 

be required to rebuild destroyed properties. 

Understandably, while it is necessary to build structures up to 

protect them from future devastation, setting base flood elevations 

too high in our community could render thousands of residential 

homes uninsurable or insurable only with dramatic constraint. Additionally, many homes on slabs cannot be raised to a higher level, 

and if they rebuild at their current elevation, they cannot be insured. If insurance is unavailable or difficult for residents to obtain, this will deter the property owners from rebuilding, and this 

will be devastating to our recovery. 

If you can’t insure it, you can’t finance it. And if you can’t finance 

it, it doesn’t increase in value. If it doesn’t increase in value, the 

property will decrease in value. Property that begins to depreciate 

leads to the potential of creating slums, blight, and drug-infested, 

crime-ridden communities, eventually leading to the end result of 

Federal buyout. 

The residents of Gulfport and along the Gulf Coast are looking 

carefully at flood elevation recommendations, but these must be realistic and attainable so that properties will be insurable and continue to appreciate in value. Our residents need realistic base flood 

elevations so that we can begin rebuilding the thousands of homes 

and businesses lost in Hurricane Katrina. 

The International Building Code should be adopted as a standard 

to ensure uniform building requirements throughout the coastal 

area. Recognized as an industry standard throughout the world, 

the IBC includes necessary requirements so that structures are 

built more safe and sound, producing a higher quality product and 

improving public safety standards. 

The International Building Code can be used in conjunction with 

codes developed in South Florida after Hurricane Andrew to improve a structure’s ability to resist and withstand a hurricane. 

However, while enhancing and improving the current codes is important, we must be mindful of the cost of these higher standards. 

Many of the working poor in South Mississippi were adversely afVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:19 Dec 13, 2006 Jkt 026747 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\26747.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
28

1The prepared statement of Mayor Favre appears in the appendix on page 59. 

fected by Hurricane Katrina, and we must be careful not to make 

housing unaffordable. 

In closing, I would like, again, to thank the Members of the Committee for traveling to Gulfport to hold this hearing and thank the 

Members of Congress for not letting the story of Hurricane Katrina 

disappear from the radar and for continuing to search for answers 

and solutions to our problems. Gulfport is coming back. Slowly but 

surely we’re beginning to heal. Answering these important questions about insurance, building codes, and flood elevations will go 

a long way in improving the morale and progress of our city. If instead of seeing a FEMA trailer on a vacant lot residents could 

begin to see the sight of homes and businesses being rebuilt, a 

sense of hope would be restored in our community. 

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to answering your 

questions. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mayor. Mayor Favre. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. EDWARD A. FAVRE,1 MAYOR, BAY ST. 

LOUIS, MISSISSIPPI 

Mayor FAVRE. Chairman Collins, Members of the Committee, 

Senator Landrieu, thank you for allowing us the opportunity to be 

here before you this morning. And, more importantly, thank you for 

allowing us the opportunity to be here in South Mississippi. 

On August 29, 2005, Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Gulf 

Coast with the center of the eye crossing near the Mississippi-Louisiana line. 

In Bay St. Louis, almost 2,000 homes received more than 50 percent damage with virtually every home receiving at least some sort 

of damage, from either flooding or wind or both. Our business community was heavily damaged, and I know of no structure which totally escaped the wrath of Katrina. With very few exceptions, the 

entire city was underwater. 

Providing simple survival supplies until outside sources arrived; 

temporary housing needs, clothing and hygiene needs, debris removal, denied insurance claims, assuring and reassuring our residents that everything would be all right. These and many more 

issues arose in the hours and days and weeks and months following Katrina’s visit. 

The positive attitude reflected by our great people was and still 

is nothing short of phenomenal. You won’t hear complaints or 

gripes or moans or groans or any other signs of self-pity from our 

residents. 

It’s just the opposite. The heart, the will, the desire, and the optimism of our people is unbelievable. We feel that in spite of all of 

our individual and collective losses, we still have a lot to be thankful for. ‘‘While we may not have a house, we still have a home, and 

while we may not have anything else, we still have each other,’’ 

soon became our official battle cry. 

Questions have been raised as to why the rest of the country 

should be responsible for the luxury of some people being able to 

live along the waterfront. If you think about it, the answer is quite 

29

simple. There is no area of the United States that is immune from 

natural disasters. 

Whether earthquakes, mud slides, or forest fires in the West, tornadoes in the Midwest, blizzards, ice storms, or floods in the North 

and the East, or hurricanes in the South, it’s only a matter of time 

before another natural disaster affects some part of our country. No 

single area pays for another area; we all pay for each other. 

Bay St. Louis is known as ‘‘a place apart.’’ And while part of the 

reason for this designation is due to our small town charm, the 

bulk of the credit goes to our people; very special people in a very 

special place. In order to re-establish our status as a place apart, 

we must not only restore our small town charm, but also provide 

the opportunity and ability for our residents to rebuild. We must 

make our people whole, and we must make the city whole. One 

without the other doesn’t accomplish this goal. 

While so much progress has been made since Katrina, there’s 

still a tremendous amount of work left to be done. Individual Assistance Funding was approved by Congress several weeks ago. 

And I realize the implementation of programs such as this takes 

time, but time is of the essence. We must streamline the process 

as much as possible on both the Federal and State levels and make 

the program work for all those for whom it was intended. Life is 

already too complicated for those in need. Funding provided in the 

disaster relief legislation for schools, law enforcement, and fire protection must also be made available immediately. 

Disbursing funds to the qualified needy will not only allow our 

people to begin putting their lives and properties back together, but 

will also help jump-start our local economy. Our people will then 

have the opportunity and ability to stay home or to come back 

home. 

About 2 weeks after Katrina, as most Mississippi municipalities 

did, we adopted our operating budget for fiscal year 2005–06. In 

the case of Bay St. Louis, we adopted a general fund budget of almost $7 million, with absolutely no way to fund it. Our three primary sources of revenues are or were from gaming, sales tax, and 

property taxes. Casino revenues won’t be received until the summer, if then, and will be considerably less than pre-Katrina 

amounts. 

Even though a number of our smaller businesses have reopened, 

sales tax revenue will also be considerably less than pre-Katrina 

amounts. Property taxes for fiscal year 2005–06 will be about twothirds of what was projected and for fiscal year 2006–07 will be 

about 10 percent of what was projected. And fiscal year 2007–08 

doesn’t look any better. Under the best of circumstances, it will still 

take several years for our revenue sources to rebound to preKatrina levels. 

My major concern for now and the foreseeable future is funding 

for the local governmental entities affected by Katrina. To date, the 

only sources of public funding are by way of loans. To my knowledge, there has yet to be any mention of grant funding to make up 

for lost revenues for local governments over the next 5 to 7 years. 

The Community Disaster Loan Program provides funding at the 

level of 25 percent of our current operating budget or projected revenue losses for the next 3 years, whichever is less. The funds we 

30

have received from this program are helping to cover payroll expenses, but these are only loans, and there is specific language in 

the legislation prohibiting forgiveness of these loans. If the requirements of this program were amended to allow loans for the greater, 

which would be projected revenue losses, this would help our situation, but what we really need is an amendment to the legislation 

removing the prohibition on forgiveness of the loans. We would 

then ask for the same treatment afforded a number of other cities 

such as Miami and Homestead City and Florida City who have all 

had loans from the CDL program cancelled. 

The State of Mississippi has also made funds available through 

the Mississippi Development Bond Bank to assist local governments meet some of its current operating and cash flow needs. We 

would also ask forgiveness of these loans as we do not and will not 

for a long time to come, if ever, have the ability to repay these 

debts. We have already asked the State legislature for legislation 

to forgive any outstanding State Revolving Fund loans for any governmental entity affected by Katrina. 

On a local level, we lost about one-third of our employees since 

Katrina. We have not yet replaced them. But in some cases, we will 

have to do so. Other than salaries, debt service, and some required 

expenses, we are dealing only with Katrina matters. This can’t last 

forever, and sometime in the near future, we must go back to normal operations, for which we don’t have permanent funding 

sources. 

We need a grant program decreasing annually to cover our lost 

revenues over the next 5 to 7 years. Without this, there will be no 

Bay St. Louis, no Waveland or Pass Christian or Long Beach. Biloxi and Gulfport may survive simply because of their size, but 

even for them, it won’t be easy. We need deadlines extended to 

cover the duration of the disaster. 

That old saying about a picture being worth a thousand words 

doesn’t fit this situation. Even 141 days after Katrina’s visit, until 

you see for yourself at ground zero, it’s almost impossible to fully 

comprehend the magnitude of the destruction. 

And because of the magnitude of the destruction, we can’t continue to think in terms of what has been done in the past. Throw 

out the old rules. In responding to the September 11 disaster, this 

country did things it had never before done. We, too, must now respond by doing things never before done. We must be creative in 

our approach to solving the problems at hand. 

When President Bush visited Bay St. Louis and Waveland last 

week, an extremely important message was conveyed without saying a single word. His presence alone told us that we have not been 

forgotten. Your presence here today conveys that same message. 

With all of your responsibilities, you’ve chosen to take time out of 

your busy schedules to be here with us. 

Our people are a proud people. We may be down, but we’re far 

from out. We don’t ask for pity. We simply ask for assistance. And 

with your help and the grace of God, South Mississippi will rebound and Bay St. Louis will once again be a place apart. 

May God bless each of you, may God bless the great State of Mississippi, and may God bless America. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Dr. Smith. 

31

1The prepared statement of Dr. Smith appears in the appendix on page 63. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. GAVIN SMITH,1 DIRECTOR, GOVERNOR’S 

OFFICE OF RECOVERY AND RENEWAL, STATE OF MISSISSIPPI 

Dr. SMITH. I’d like to thank the Senate Committee on Homeland 

Security and Governmental Affairs for allowing us to talk a little 

bit about some of our issues and echo many of those expressed by 

local officials, as well as Congressman Taylor. 

Just one thing very quickly on the CDBG Program. The concern 

about the 51 percent or greater. We are literally in the process of 

looking at all of the needs outside of the flood plain and coming up 

with a strategy to go well beyond 51 percent. So I just want to 

mention that as a policy issue it’s very important to Mississippi. 

What I’d like to focus on is housing. Mr. Powell talked about 

housing, housing, housing being our issue, and it really is in many 

ways. So much of recovery is driven by housing, both the temporary housing as well as a provision of a suitable number of alternatives to transition from that temporary housing to permanent 

housing. Safe, affordable, high-quality housing. So I’d like to focus 

on those types of issues. 

One of the biggest challenges facing us within Mississippi, and 

I would argue facing people around the country following a disaster 

of this scale, is the lack of an operational or a coordinated longterm recovery strategy. It just doesn’t exist in the Federal Government. Post disaster there’s not clear identification of who’s in 

charge, and that was talked about by many of the Senators today 

and other local officials. FEMA has a role, a very important role, 

as does HUD, USDA, EDA, and on down the line. But there’s not 

a central coordinating point that takes charge and knocks out policy issues. And that’s a fundamental problem facing the State and 

our country. 

What we really need is a national program that’s flexible, that’s 

driven by local needs, and ideally one that is developed before a 

disaster ever occurs. It’s too late for this disaster, but I would encourage Members of the Senate to think about that in terms of 

long-term housing strategy developed before the storm ever happens. And I’ll talk about that in just a bit as well. 

Probably the greatest problem is a lack of coordination across 

Federal agencies, that goes back to the need for this integrated recovery plan, that goes to the housing, infrastructure, schools, you 

name it. But housing on the Mississippi Coast is just crucial. I 

want to focus on that. 

One of the things that we don’t seem to learn is that we just 

don’t learn from past disasters. There are techniques, there are approaches out there that can speed the deployment of temporary 

housing. There are techniques out there that can provide safe and 

affordable housing quickly. We just don’t seem to learn those lessons. And I’ll touch on a few. 

For example, one is driven by advances in the housing trade. 

Now modular housing, panelized housing, other housing techniques 

have advanced significantly in the last 5 years. In the past, it was 

almost a dirty word. I would make the argument that if you do it 

right, that’s one option. It’s not the answer, but it’s a piece of the 

puzzle. 

32

One of the things that we need to do, we need to develop the 

funding mechanism to do that, is to quickly stand up manufactured 

housing plants on the coast immediately following a disaster where 

they can be stood up quickly to build quality manufactured housing. In fact, an ideal goal should be that no one should ever have 

to live in a travel trailer following a disaster. It can be done. It’s 

very difficult. It’s challenging, but it can be done. That should be 

the ultimate goal. There’s a likelihood that people, some people will 

be in travel trailers, some people will be in mobile homes, but how 

do we, as a country, figure out a way to come up with better options than that. We can do that. It’s possible. 

One way to do that is prestorm agreements with private sector 

builders and others to literally stand them up just like you would 

any other asset following a disaster. We bring in water, we bring 

in ice, and we bring in food. But there’s no reason why we can’t 

bring in housing quickly and put up sites quickly. There are quality places to live in. 

One of the problems with this concept, the concept of a transitional community that’s been talked about by FEMA and by HUD 

and others, but frankly, it’s not been led by someone. And it’s almost—I would make the argument generally, it may be too late for 

the State of Mississippi to take on the concept of transitional housing where you literally build the appropriate infrastructure in 

these emergency group sites that will allow you to transition those 

emergency group sites of travel trailers and mobile homes out and 

replace them with high-quality, sturdy, affordable housing. That’s 

a conceptual issue that FEMA and HUD and others have been 

bouncing around, but frankly, in this disaster it really hasn’t happened yet and now we’re almost at the point where it’s too late. 

One of the things also that’s a major concern for us is the idea 

of getting resolution to key policy issues. The failure to do that is 

limiting the quickness of our recovery. In fact, the mayors have 

talked about policy issues that we need resolution as soon as possible. The sooner we can get resolution of those policies, the quicker 

we can move forward with rebuilding our community. I’ll talk 

about a couple that are fundamentally important. 

One is the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program, that is a funding 

source that can be used inside the flood plain to help repair and/

or elevate damaged housing. Its primary function is to reduce future losses; however, in Mississippi what we’re very interested in 

doing is elevating flood-prone homes. However, if the house is gone, 

there’s nothing to elevate. So a policy issue for us is to use the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program funds to pay for the foundation and 

the destroyed house upon which it sits. What we’re planning on 

doing, what we’d like to do and suggest is how we link that with 

the CDBG money so that there is a cap for the housing. 

But this is a policy issue that goes to the issue of the tens of 

thousands of homes that are simply gone in the flood plain. Until 

we can get resolution to that issue, we’re not sure—in fact, frankly, 

if we can’t get an answer as to how we’re going to pay for the rebuilding of homes inside the flood plain, a lot of the mayors and 

others are in a very difficult position because the flood advisory 

maps—while I’ll commend FEMA for this—the flood advisory maps 

33

that were created are one of the most innovative tools to help local 

governments make informed decisions. 

Unprecedented. And FEMA did an amazing job on that, and we 

ought to recognize them for that. However, if local government officials can’t tell the disaster victims how they’re going to rebuild 

their house to those new flood elevations, then people are scared. 

They’re terrified. They don’t know what they’re going to do. And, 

again, without having a resolution to that policy issue, our greatest 

fear is that these homeowners are going to sell out. They’re going 

to sell their land and then they’re going to turn it over to developers and others who may end up building highrises along our 

coast. And that’s definitely not something we’d want to do. We 

want to rebuild Mississippi safer and stronger, but at the same 

time, we want to capture that architectural heritage that made it 

so unique. So that’s a very important policy issue that we’re facing. 

Another is, when we rebuild housing, we’re also looking to rebuild communities. So it’s not just housing, but it’s also damaged 

infrastructure. And there is a policy—or there is a program with 

FEMA known as the 406 Hazard Mitigation Program. It’s really 

406 Mitigation within Public Assistance. And, frankly, historically 

FEMA has been very focused on cost containment associated with 

the Public Assistance Program. 

The 406 Mitigation Program has a fund, and it is eligible if the 

home was—the infrastructure was damaged, you could rebuild 

stronger. Better than it was before the disaster, but making it less 

vulnerable to future events. Coupling the housing policy issue of 

the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program and the expenditure, a wise 

investment, of 406 dollars to protect infrastructure, that will go a 

long way to rebuilding our communities safer than they were. 

I will throw out one thing just to let you know that there is a 

study that just came out and, in fact, FEMA funded it, the Multi 

Hazard Mitigation Council just came out with a study that showed 

for every one dollar invested in mitigation, it was a $4 savings over 

the long run. Very powerful lesson, I think, for all of us. 

If I could throw out a couple other issues that we’re facing as 

well. Housing issues, builders. Availability of trained work force, 

provision of work force housing. Adequacy of construction materials. 

Both in terms of materials, just quantity, but also the appropriate types of materials to rebuild coastal construction, rebuild 

better, rebuild it safer. We’re also talking about issues of scale. You 

know, 65,000 homes damaged or destroyed. That magnitude, we 

need a coordinated effort at the Federal level, and it’s just not 

there. And we desperately need that. The speed of transition from 

temporary to permanent housing. How are we going to get these 

people from their mobile homes that are actually on their lots on 

the coast into a place to live while they’re rebuilding their home. 

These are all issues that are unresolved. Affordable housing, rental 

housing, critical issues, but again, the answers just aren’t there in 

terms of the funding that’s going to pay for it. 

The local community needs—I can’t emphasize this enough—

three things. One, adequate building inspectors to help with rebuilding. Two, adequate grant managers to help provide funding 

and help find the money beyond the FEMA programs to help reVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:19 Dec 13, 2006 Jkt 026747 PO 00000 Frm 00037 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\26747.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
34

build these communities better than they were before. And three, 

housing counselors that will actually walk individual homeowners 

through the process. It’s a maze of programs, and there are a lot 

of gaps out there, so we need to blend those resources so we can 

help rebuild Mississippi better than it was before. Thank you. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Thank you all for your testimony. Each of you has eloquently described the needs of your communities and the challenges that 

you’re facing. 

I’d like to ask the two mayors what is the single most helpful action that the Federal Government could take to assist your communities in recovering? We’ll start with Mayor Warr. 

Mayor WARR. I can only pick one? 

Senator COLLINS. There are so many, I know. 

Mayor WARR. I think where the Federal authority is there, I 

would have to say that the base floor elevations of the structures, 

how high a structure needs to be built to be practical and sustain 

damage. The recommended base flood elevations—the base floor 

elevations that we have right now for this storm—and FEMA has 

done, and Dr. Smith is right, an outstanding job with these recommended maps, but if the structures were built to those elevations, they still would have blown away in the storm. This storm 

is totally unprecedented and in no way should be used as a benchmark. Hurricane Camille was a very fine conservative benchmark, 

and we’ve been saying that since the day after the storm. 

And going far beyond and making structures be put on what we 

call giraffe legs would render them, by our building code, totally 

impractical and unusable. We have a 12 to 1 rise to run ratio in 

our building code. So if someone were to need a handicap ramp, so 

to speak, for their home and they couldn’t afford an elevator, and 

their home had to be raised a certain number of feet, they could 

easily have to have a handicap ramp 75 or 100 feet long. Of course, 

how would they push themselves up there in a wheelchair anything 

that long. 

We’ve studied these maps. And even though they’re good in their 

advisory, I think that we need to take a few feet off. 

And then insure the losses, taking the cap off of flood insurance 

and let people buy however much they need and charge them a fair 

price for it. And then put a more practical number on what we call 

the front, which is on the Gulf, and on the back, which are the bays 

and the bayous. A little more conservative than they were before, 

but not impractical. That would be a huge advantage to us and, of 

course, we need that very quickly. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Mayor WARR. Yes, ma’am. 

Senator COLLINS. Mayor. 

Mayor FAVRE. I guess summing it up in one word, money. You 

know, quite frankly, as I said, I think the key to the entire coast 

rebuilding is a combination effort of making our people whole and 

making the governments whole. One without the other, having a 

city with no people being able to live in it doesn’t do a whole lot 

of good to have a city and having the people in an area where there 

is no longer a city, they’re not able to receive the services and enjoy 

the quality of life that they have enjoyed in the past. So one withVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:19 Dec 13, 2006 Jkt 026747 PO 00000 Frm 00038 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\26747.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
35

out the other really doesn’t solve the problem. So that would be the 

key is making our people whole and making the governmental entities whole. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Dr. Smith, I can’t help be troubled as I look at the calendar and 

realize that the hurricane season for this year is only about 5 

months away. What is your assessment of Mississippi’s preparedness for another hurricane season when you’re still struggling to 

recover from the devastation of last year? 

Dr. SMITH. Right. Actually one of the issues that has been lost 

in all this, a lot of the communities along the Mississippi Coast 

were actually considered on a nationwide basis quite progressive in 

terms of their flood plain management policies. One of the challenges with this disaster, as the mayors have mentioned, is the 

scale or just the size of this event. Things were in place, procedures 

were in place, but it’s—frankly, the scale of it, this is where State 

Government needs Federal assistance. And by definition, when a 

Presidential disaster occurs, it exceeds the capability of the State 

Government to a large extent, but this exceeded it on several orders of magnitude. 

And one of the challenges or one of the issues I would throw out 

is FEMA was preparing for catastrophic disasters. They were doing 

catastrophic disaster planning; however, they didn’t finish the 

work. And I’m sure that many of the Senators are aware of that. 

Those kind of issues need to be revisited. On a disaster of this 

scale, States by themselves just can’t do it. They really need a coordinated Federal level of assistance. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Lieberman. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Madam Chairman. Thanks to this 

panel. Gene Taylor, thank you for being here and for your testimony. 

Mayors, I thought your testimony was very compelling, and I appreciate what you said and promise you that we’ll do our part to 

see if we can respond on both of the issues you talked about, the 

FEMA guidelines and also about the—I was about to say impossible, but very difficult circumstance you’re in without a tax base. 

I want to ask a question of you, Dr. Smith, and I thank you for 

being here. I was very impressed by the report of the Governor’s 

Commission. It contains in it some really stunning statistics about 

the poverty rate in the State and about the particular impact, 

therefore, that the hurricane has on a lot of people here. As the report says, many residents of South Mississippi possessed limited 

assets on the eve of the hurricane, so think of where they are now. 

The report also says that affordable housing and home ownership 

are cornerstones on which the region will rebuild for the long term, 

and it calls for investments and housing strategies that target low 

wealth residents. It’s again a quote. 

And I wanted to ask you if you could talk a little bit about what 

some of those strategies are and what role you believe the Federal 

Government must play in implementing that. And if there’s time, 

I’m going to ask the mayors and Congressman Taylor to just add 

a word to focus on how to create out of this tragedy adequate housing stock for lower income residents. 

36

Dr. SMITH. Absolutely. In the profession, we talk about vulnerability of people in communities. One of the things we don’t talk 

about sometimes is the concept of social vulnerability. People, as 

you just mentioned—it’s one thing to be a homeowner that’s going 

to be able to take money out of a bank account and rebuild their 

home. It’s another for someone who had no flood insurance whose 

home was destroyed who was on a fixed income, be it elderly, poor, 

whomever, those people we are definitely, as mentioned in the Governor’s Commission report, we are looking at reaching out. 

One of the things that we’re doing is using Federal assistance as 

far as we can stretch those dollars, both the CDBG money and the 

Hazard Mitigation Grant Program funds, to focus on housing-related issues. Focusing in many ways on risk, but within that risk, 

those people of low and moderate income. 

We’re also looking at reaching out to nonprofits because, frankly, 

the Federal programs oftentimes are focused on risk, not necessarily—the Federal disaster programs are oftentimes focused on 

risk reduction and assistance, they’re not necessarily focused on assisting the people that need the help the most, the poorest of the 

poor in many cases. 

And so we’re looking at partnering with our Mississippi Home 

Corporation. We’re looking at partnering with Habitat for Humanity and other organizations that don’t have the same strings attached. In fact, frankly, that’s one of the challenges in disaster recovery is how do we help rebuild affordable housing stock given the 

constraints of Federal programs. We need programs that have 

fewer constraints but allow us to help those most needy individuals. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Well, out of this tragedy I invite you from 

a State and local level to give us advice about how we can change 

the housing programs to better meet this need. It strikes me as we 

talk about this that the nation was outraged and, in some good 

measure, embarrassed about the plight of poor people in New Orleans who were left behind. 

That was very visible. Because this is a very different circumstance, not a large city, not a Convention Center. You all 

worked together to get people to safety. Nonetheless, there are genuine problems of poor people here as well. And that’s why I asked 

the question to highlight that need of the Gulf Coast of Mississippi 

as well as New Orleans. 

Mayors, do you want to add a quick word? I got about a minute 

left on my time. 

Mayor FAVRE. From my standpoint, I think we saw or still see 

that there’s a continuing need for temporary housing or affordable 

housing. I think different ideas that have been addressed included 

manufactured homes. 

Last week up in Jackson it was—what’d they call it—the Yellow 

House. A little small house, 300 square feet. Doesn’t sound like a 

whole lot, but if you’re living in a trailer, 300 square feet is roomy 

compared to a FEMA trailer. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. We’ve heard. 

Mayor FAVRE. You can move a little bit. 

37

And I think once again, just like we said before, it’s going to 

mean getting creative, whether it’s with the manufactured housing 

or something else. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Do you want to add something? 

Mayor WARR. Yes. We do have an opportunity here to create 

homeowners out of people who never have been homeowners if we 

do this right. The Governor’s Commission on Renewal has done 

some exemplary work on designs of homes but that don’t have to 

be gigantic, palatial homes but that are very liveable, comfortable, 

and will appreciate over time if we put them in the appropriate 

places. If we look at end fill lots and areas that have had homes 

destroyed during the storm. If we go to faith-based groups, Habitat 

for Humanity, other organizations like that that don’t have the 

strings attached, as Dr. Smith mentioned, we will have a tremendous opportunity to do that and do it in a right way. We’re very 

sensitive along this community to not cluster people into groups 

where then they begin to be identified as low income areas. I think 

it’s very important that the persons who live in those homes that 

have been provided for a better opportunity have the opportunity 

to do so and be the only ones that know that they have that—were 

given that opportunity to live in that home. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Mr. Taylor, do you want to add a word? 

Mr. TAYLOR. Very quickly. Think about it, it’s the 28th, 29th of 

the month. People on a fixed income have probably spent their entire budget on food, rent, and now gasoline’s almost $3 a gallon. 

And they’re given the decision to stay in their home of many years 

or try to get out on the road, only to discover—again, for the poorest of the poor, they don’t have a credit card. They’re out of money. 

And one of the many mistakes that FEMA has yet to rectify is 

we ought to have a provision to get some gasoline in people’s cars 

because if we get them out of the area to go visit relatives, then 

we don’t have to feed them MREs, then we don’t have to find them 

a portalet, we don’t have to get them a generator. And they’re in 

a place that’s got electricity should something go wrong health 

wise. And that really is something I wish Homeland Security would 

look at, because whether it’s a chemical, biological attack, EMP 

somewhere, or a hurricane, you have to get the folks out of the affected area. And it really does become our job to get them out of 

there. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thank you all. We’ve learned a lot. 

Senator COLLINS. Senator Coleman. 

Senator COLEMAN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Very great panel. Thank you very much. 

A question on the housing. I got a chance to look at what they 

call the Katrina cottage last week, about 300 square feet. I don’t 

know, I think it cost about $35,000. I don’t know what the FEMA 

trailer costs, maybe Dr. Smith does. Have folks looked at perhaps 

looking at the cost of the trailer and some system that would allow 

that to be used as a down payment on—— 

Mr. TAYLOR. Senator, it’s about $19,000 for the FEMA trailer, 

not counting the installation. 

Senator COLEMAN. Has there been any discussion about the ability of those funding to provide something more permanent and, in 

comparison, certainly much more liveable? 

38

Dr. SMITH. That’s right. That was one of the issues of the Governor’s Commission report, and certainly we need to get you all 

copies. We’ll definitely do that. One of the things in housing was, 

again, the ideal goal of trying to come up with solutions and alternatives to living in travel trailers and mobile homes. And one was 

what’s called a Katrina cottage, the 300-square-foot home. 

The benefit of that is not only is it something you can move into 

quickly, but it’s built in a way that you add on like you would see 

in other literally developing communities where you can literally 

add onto that home and eventually build out onto a lot to a larger 

home. But that is that transitional component and that one was 

one of the techniques that came out of the planning work where 

we brought in hundreds of architects, planners, and others from 

around the country and they met and worked with each of the 11 

communities. And that really kick started the recovery process. 

Senator COLEMAN. I know there was an article, I think it was at 

the end of the year, early part of the year, I saw a copy of, I think 

it was the Biloxi Sun Herald paper, and they had talked about the 

comparisons between Camille and Katrina and noted that a lot of 

work after Camille—there was a commission and there was a series of recommendations. And the conclusion seemed to be that the 

recommendations made it into reality. I’ve looked at the quote. 

Probably the study envisioned a really hopeful, positive, optimistic 

work with communities to try to put it together. 

My question is, perhaps to the mayors, what is it that you can 

do to help ensure that those visions have a better chance of becoming realities? So it isn’t just, we look into the future and there’s another crisis and someone says, Oh, they did all this great work 

after Katrina, but what happened. 

Mayor WARR. I think it’s just crucial that, first off, you have to 

buy into the vision. You have to understand the people who have 

that skill and that dedication and who came here and gave of their 

hearts. We saw them do it. And they spent countless hours of doing 

so. They have to know better than I do how to design that home. 

They do this for a living. They’ve done it many times. So I think 

that we would be selling ourselves short to not try to take fullest 

advantage, not necessarily for ourselves, but for the communities 

that we’re elected to serve by doing that. They’ve developed this 

plan. They’ve given us a map. And I think that we owe it to the 

people that elected us to try as best we can to follow that map, pick 

the best roads, and not be diverted. But it’s a commitment to the 

plan. That’s what we must do. 

Senator COLEMAN. Mayor Favre. 

Mayor FAVRE. I agree completely. And one key to the process has 

been the public input from the very beginning. Not only have we 

bought into it, but the people have bought into it, too. Like Brent 

said, I think we owe it to them, and I think they’re going to hold 

us responsible and hold our feet to the fire, to make sure that the 

recommendations are implemented. The ones that are feasible. 

We’ve looked at, in our case in Bay St. Louis, quite a number of 

recommendations, the vast majority are very feasible, something 

that we have all accepted and we look forward to. 

39

Senator COLEMAN. I think the community buy-in is especially important. There’s been certainly a different reception to the vision 

that’s been laid out with respect to New Orleans. 

And I look at the reception of this vision. 

My biggest concern is, I know mayors are very practical, they’ve 

really got this grand vision. On the other hand, you’re worried really about basic stuff now. You’ve got the debris cleanup. And then 

you’ve got transitional housing, long-term housing, on the other 

hand. Mayors, you’ve got visions of a vibrant city on the hill that 

they still want to build. And the whole piece is an important piece. 

So please—time is short in this hearing, but let us know how we 

can continue to be of help. I add my voice to Senator Lieberman 

and the other Members of this Committee in terms of being responsive to concerns about insurance and about basic funding, how we 

make those things work. So I want to thank you all for your participation. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Dayton. 

Senator DAYTON. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

First, I’d like to take the opportunity to salute my colleague Senator Landrieu. Since the hurricane, I’ve concluded that there are 

five Senator Landrieus, that’s how omnipresent she has been. And 

I think the fact that you’re here today—there are others who are 

waiting for us in New Orleans, and that’s appropriate, too. But 

your concern is for the whole region, and you’ve been just a phenomenal advocate for the whole region. And I just give you enormous credit for that. It’s a great tribute to you. 

Congressman Taylor, maybe you’d like to be the House sponsor 

of my Truth in Insurance Act. I say that we need to separate the 

insurance cons from the insurance companies. And they write the 

policies. They write the fine print. They interpret them. They decide on whether or not to pay the claim or not. They handle the 

appeals. And then if they don’t pay, they pocket that money in 

profit. So, I mean, talk about a kangaroo court and a stacked deck. 

It’s just ridiculous. And among that, without getting too long into 

it now, but I would require that they put on a front page in plain 

English a disclosure what is not covered in this policy so people understand what they think they’re paying for. 

I had a gentleman ride over with me from the airport, said he 

paid $1,900 a year for his policy, and then he finds out he’s not covered for wind. 

I’ve got people in Minnesota who found out after the fact that 

their home was not covered for flooding. It was covered if there was 

a revolution and the revolutionaries destroyed the home. It was 

covered if their home was hit by an airplane crash. Now, what are 

the probabilities of those occurring versus flooding. Again, they 

weren’t fully apprised. 

The same thing in health insurance. So I think that’s an area of 

serious need in reform beyond the scope of this Committee. But I 

hope we can maybe work together and accomplish that. 

I guess I’d like to ask each of you in turn, going back to your observations, Congressman—and, again, I thank you for being such 

a staunch advocate for your constituents. You described sort of the 

first couple of days or weeks of FEMA’s response or lack thereof. 

Tracking it further to now, we heard from Coordinator Powell 

40

about some of the statistics about various loans and grants, financial assistance, and that disconnect with at least what I have heard 

is the public perception. Again, anecdotally, I heard on the way 

over here that people who called the 1-800 FEMA number would 

wait for 20 minutes on the telephone line and then just get a recording giving them an e-mail address when they didn’t even have 

electricity that they had to follow up, and then they were disconnected. 

I mean, have these things that were maybe apparent in the immediate aftermath, have they improved? Are we seeing progress 

now or are these problems persisting? 

Mr. TAYLOR. Senator, to give you a for instance—2 or 3 days 

after the storm, I visited a shelter. FEMA employees in there were 

very proudly handing out brochures saying to call this number. 

There’s no phones. And when I asked—when I handed one back to 

a FEMA employee, I said, What’s wrong with this brochure? 

They’re looking for grammatical errors. There are no phones. You 

need to get people down. This is an area where people look at each 

other. That’s why we have town meetings. That’s why we all have 

Congressional offices. And so that took a long time to address. It’s 

not been fully addressed. 

I can assure you that 95 percent of all the work in all of my Congressional offices are FEMA complaints. We still have 5,000 South 

Mississippi families waiting on a FEMA trailer more than 150 days 

after the storm. That’s ridiculous. 

I can take you to Hope, Arkansas, and show you 5,000 FEMA 

trailers sitting on the old runway there. I can take you to Purvis, 

Mississippi, and show you ADA trailers for folks with disabilities. 

As the local folks say there are no trailers available. I can take you 

to a place called De Lisle, there’s probably another thousand trailers sitting there. I can take you to Hancock County and show you 

another 500. 

And one of the problems is, again, I think we have to address 

this, is that, in this instance, Bechtel got the contract. It’s a cost 

plus contract. So the more they drag their feet, the more cumbersome they make the project, the more additional layers they add 

to the process of delivering a trailer, they get paid for it. And I actually got a member of the Bechtel family on the phone and said, 

If you’re doing this bad a job in South Mississippi, what in the heck 

are you doing in Iraq where I can’t see you. And, again, if the Administration is not going to fix this, then it’s incumbent on the 

House and Senate to do so. 

Senator DAYTON. Thank you, Congressman. Mayor Warr. 

Mayor WARR. We did run into incredible problems like that, as 

Congressman Taylor said. Communications, it was like the Old 

West. We had to send someone across the county to ask someone 

a question to come back and tell us what the answer was. So it was 

totally unprecedented. We’ve not had anything like this before. It 

was bad during Camille, but it wasn’t like this. Really when the 

coastal counties basically are just put to their knees, everything is 

off standard. FEMA didn’t come down here intending to do a poor 

job. No one did. And the organizations that typically come in and 

are the first responders, Salvation Army, the Red Cross, and organizations like that, they came in, and they were just as overVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:19 Dec 13, 2006 Jkt 026747 PO 00000 Frm 00044 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\26747.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
41

whelmed as all of us were. I think we’d be in error to try to point 

too many fingers immediately after the storm. Now, since the 

storm and as the processes have been set in place, that’s where we 

need to start really looking and seeing what our best processes is. 

I’m not really giving you a lot of answers, but——

Senator DAYTON. Madam Chairman, may I ask the other two to 

respond briefly, please, any highlights? Mayor. 

Mayor FAVRE. I think it’s been mentioned when the storm hit 

and the FEMA response was not there, we realized that FEMA was 

spread quite thin dealing with storms from last year and this year 

in the Florida area, Dennis, including Katrina, before it hit us, it 

hit down in the Florida area and all. 

So it was quite thin. But some of the problems, I guess the major 

problems we’ve had is that, first, we have FEMA representatives 

at every one of our locations, Hancock, Harrison, Jackson, all over, 

yet none of them can make a decision. They’ve got to go up the ladder however many levels, and that decision at times takes time. 

And then when we get a decision in a week’s time, that decision 

has changed. So we have to start the process back again. 

Debris removal was talked about. Why is it taking so long. Because of all of the requirements placed on the debris removal, 

whether it’s the Corps of Engineers or the private contractors, by 

the FEMA requirements. Second thing is the recordkeeping requirements. We have four of my staff members—on a very limited 

staff that we have, four of them spend virtually their entire days 

doing nothing but recordkeeping. That’s in addition to the FEMA 

guy who is doing a great job with us. But four people just to do 

recordkeeping. And the threat, implied or actual, has been there 

since the first meetings with FEMA that, be careful, we don’t want 

to have to do you all like we had to do in Florida last year and the 

year before and come back and get $2 million. We didn’t have $2 million before the storm, we sure don’t have 

it now. So it’s the recordkeeping requirements and the fear of not 

complying and not getting reimbursed for something that has 

caused us the most problems. 

Senator DAYTON. Thank you. Dr. Smith. 

Dr. SMITH. One of the issues, frankly, is that I think we need to 

take a look at rebuilding FEMA. It doesn’t have the tools they 

need. The tools are being taken away from them as opposed to 

given to them. 

At one time they had one of the highest morales, I think it was 

even mentioned earlier, among all Federal agencies. Now they’re at 

the bottom, if not at the bottom. So if you don’t have the tools and 

you have low staff morale, you’re almost doomed to fail. 

And I can tell you, I’ve worked with FEMA a lot, and I respect 

them immensely. And there are a lot of very dedicated people, but 

they just need more. They need more assistance. 

And on that note, frankly, one of the challenges is we’re not giving natural hazards the respect, if you will, they deserve. I mean, 

that is an equal, if not greater, threat than any threat facing this 

country is just our vulnerability to natural hazards. 

Senator DAYTON. Thank you, Dr. Smith. Thank you, Madam 

Chairman. 

Senator COLLINS. Senator Coburn. 

42

Senator COBURN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Just a consensus, everybody believes the cap needs to be raised 

on flood insurance, there is no question about that. 

On the new FEMA maps, everybody agrees they may be a little 

bit tougher than they need to be. 

Is that the consensus? 

Mr. TAYLOR. Doc, I’ve been through this once. I don’t want to go 

through it again in my lifetime. I’m going to go as high as they say 

to go. That’s just my personal opinion. 

Senator COBURN. Is there a feeling that they may be—FEMA 

wants to overreact on this too. They don’t want to go through this 

again either. And so my worry is that we have overreacted on the 

FEMA maps to the detriment of the people of Mississippi and Louisiana. 

Mr. TAYLOR. If I may. What my concern is, at this point, they’re 

only recommendations. Some of the counties have accepted and 

some of the cities have accepted their recommendations from 

FEMA. Some of them have moved in that direction. Now, my fear 

is with either a change in administration or either just a change 

of heart in Washington, they go back to those counties that didn’t 

fully implement their recommendations at some point and say, you 

can’t get flood insurance. And in that instance, my home county 

would not be able to get flood insurance. So someone in FEMA 

needs to issue a definitive answer whether or not these are the 

rules or just recommendations and they can be willing to live by 

that decision. Because they’ve really kicked the ball back on probably, easily, a dozen different governing jurisdictions to make the 

decision in the case of these cities. 

Senator COBURN. So who’s going to start their home over until 

that’s decided? 

Mr. TAYLOR. Like I said, I’m going by the FEMA recommendation. 

Senator COBURN. I understand. But who is going to make a decision to invest and loan money on it until that is decided? So that’s 

something we need to communicate back up. FEMA needs to say, 

this is the strict and fast rule. No, it’s a recommendation. We will 

hold you to it, and we’re going to put that down and we’re going 

to stick to it, or it’s just a recommendation. 

Dr. SMITH. If I could, one of the challenges is, these maps were 

created as a means to give the tools, information to local governments to help them in rebuilding. 

They’re not required. However, when the new flood insurance 

rate maps that are similar to these are done in 12 months or so, 

that is going to be required. And, frankly, one of the challenges facing local governments is if, in order to protect lives and property, 

it makes sense to follow the advisory elevations. However, if you 

don’t have the money to pay for it, it’s going to reshape the entire 

coast in a truly negative way. 

Senator COBURN. That’s my whole point, in 12 months if you’re 

really going to get a definitive answer in terms of flood insurance 

and what the requirements are going to be for the financing for 

these homes, correct? 

Dr. SMITH. Well, under the advisory maps, if local governments 

choose to adopt them, they will be as if they were flood insurance 

43

rate maps, they could be used for regulation and they could be used 

for insurance. 

Senator COBURN. So are you telling me they’ve already given you 

the answer? 

Dr. SMITH. I’m saying the local governments have—at this point 

they’re given the option of adopting the advisory maps as for regulation. 

Mayor WARR. But in many instances, it’s going to be a dramatic 

increase on peoples’ homes, and they’re not going to be able to 

practically raise these homes. So if you have someone who has a 

$100,000 home and they’re not going to be insured for their loss 

and there’s $50,000 worth of damage, and if they put—if they go 

and borrow, which they may not be able to do, but if they have 

$50,000 to put into that $100,000 home, now they have a $150,000 

home. If that home is at 14 feet elevation and FEMA says, well, 

that home is supposed to be at 16 feet elevation, therefore, it’s uninsurable or difficult to insure, what we call B paper in the insurance market. Bankers in our community have already said that 

they’re not going to finance homes that are below the FEMA base 

floor elevations. 

So if a home can’t be sold to someone for anything other than cash, if someone wants to buy that $150,000 home but they have 

to pay cash for it, they can’t borrow money to get it, then that 

home just depreciated the day that decision was made. And that 

home now is probably a $50,000 or $60,000 home. 

Senator COBURN. One other point I just want to comment on. 

People from all across the country, including people from Oklahoma, were down here helping communities. There’s no question 

this country cares about the people who received the brunt of this 

storm. There’s no question about it. But one of the things you said, 

Mayor Warr, that concerns me a little bit is that everyone outside 

of the flood plains, ‘‘should be covered for their loss whether they 

had insurance or not.’’

And the problem that I have with that statement is that sets a 

tremendous precedent for anything else that ever happens again in 

this country. And we have to look forward to the generations that 

follow us. And does there not have to be a certain component of 

personal accountability? There’s no question this was catastrophic. 

We as citizens of this country want to help everybody get back on 

their feet and do the right thing. But a blanket statement that 

says—because the next time something—a tornado hits Oklahoma 

and 5,000 homes, we’re going to have somebody say, Well, we did 

it in Mississippi, we did it in Louisiana. I didn’t have insurance for 

tornadoes, so you got to cover me. And so there’s this realistic problem that we’re going to have to face, which is what percentage is 

incumbent upon you all, what percentage is incumbent on the rest 

of us in the country to help you. And I agree with your statement, 

Mayor Favre, that it does cost across the country, but not to the 

degree that we’ve seen here. Tornadoes are terrible and have killed 

a lot of people in Oklahoma along with massive destruction, but 

nothing like what has happened here. And so that’s a question 

we’re going to have to wrestle with that is important for the future, 

because we are going to set an absolute precedent, $150,000 on 

your home. 

44

Mayor WARR. It is an incredible precedent, and I have shared 

your concern. I toil with it continuously, but—and it’s a dangerous 

precedent, but this is a very unprecedented event. And the reality 

of it is, as Congressman Taylor’s comment about creating natural 

disaster coverage rather than flood coverage, and just anything 

that’s covered under that is something that we all share in the 

overall payment of as we insure ourselves, I think that’s the role 

that we must play. 

This is so far off the realm of what is precedented and practical. 

People’s lives will be destroyed. Their nest egg that they’ve worked 

all their lives to pay for will become valueless if we don’t step in 

place and make them whole or do everything we can to do so. And 

the CDBG funding that you all were gracious enough to grant to 

the Governor, I believe, is the best tool or mechanism for that. It 

may possibly need additional funding to do. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Doc, if I may. Having made this pitch to Senators 

Lott and Cochran, and Senator Lott introduced a companion bill, 

first, you will have to have had homeowner’s insurance to show 

that you were trying to protect yourself, but something you didn’t 

anticipate happened. The second thing is, it will require those people who accept this money, as a condition of their contract, to participate in the Federal Flood Insurance Program from then on. 

That piece of property, no matter who owns it, has to participate 

as a part of that contract. So I understand your concerns. I share 

your concerns. But we’re taking steps trying to help those people 

who did try to protect themselves and see to it that they’re protected in the future. 

Senator COLLINS. Senator Pryor. 

Senator PRYOR. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I know that we’re 

overscheduled here, so I’ll try to keep my questions fairly brief. 

Let me just say this, and if someone mentioned this—I had to 

take a couple of phone calls a minute ago. But if someone mentioned this, I missed it. But in Washington our perception is that 

there were really three great heroes down here in Mississippi and 

Louisiana. One is the Coast Guard. You all agree with that, the 

Coast Guard did a great job? 

Mayor WARR. Yes. 

Mayor FAVRE. Yes. 

Senator PRYOR. Second is the National Guard did a fantastic job. 

Mayor WARR. Yes. 

Senator PRYOR. And third is the faith-based community. 

Mayor WARR. Absolutely. 

Senator PRYOR. We understand and, again, in this area it was 

mostly church organizations, the faith-based community, with the 

Coast Guard and the National Guard who really stepped up and 

really did everything they possibly could do to meet the needs for 

the people down here in this area. So I just want to acknowledge 

them today because they’ve done great things. 

Let me just, if I may, start with you, Congressman Taylor. And 

that is, you mentioned hurricane insurance or maybe catastrophic 

insurance or something like that. 

And I really do hope that when we go back to Washington we 

will this spring, this year at some point, really try to get a handle 

on that because I think you’re so right. I think you’re touching on 

45

something there that is such a critical need, that’s really been a 

need for a long time, but you just need it on such a massive scale 

right now. So I hope you’ll work with Senators and Congressmen 

to try to get that done. I’ll be glad to try to help in some way, 

maybe help shape that in some way. Just as you’ve been talking 

Senator Landrieu and I have been discussing a little bit and, of 

course, she has a great perspective on it from her State. 

And the other thing you mentioned is communication. FEMA just 

wasn’t ready on communication. I think FEMA is probably the best 

agency for that, given the fact that they’re the disaster control people and communication systems do go down in disasters. And they 

should be ready with a great communication plan. And one of the 

important things about communication is information. The fact 

that you can share information and you know what’s going on, you 

know where people are injured, you know where the water is or 

whatever the case may be, but information acknowledges power in 

that type of situation. 

And one of the things that I just want to share with the Committee is that in Arkansas, you mentioned that we had so many 

people from Louisiana and Mississippi in Arkansas. We did have 

tons for a short period of time. We still have quite a few now. But 

is the—FEMA, I believe it was—I know it was FEMA, but I believe 

it was 4 o’clock in the afternoon a group of folks from New Orleans 

were supposed to fly in to Fort Chaffee. It was a processing center. 

And then they’d be distributed from there. Well, the governor is 

there, the National Guard is there, everybody is there ready to receive. And they wait and wait and wait and wait, and they never 

show up. 

And finally at like 2 o’clock in the morning, they show up. And 

every time the State tried to contact FEMA, every bit of information they tried to get out of FEMA was wrong. And it was just so 

frustrating. And, personally, I think there’s no excuse for that. 

And, again, I think it’s just another example of how in this Committee we need to be very focused on fixing the problem. Not to 

overreact, but fix the problem. And it’s so fixable in my view. 

And the last thing I want to say is I think everybody on this 

Committee is coming to realize, if we don’t realize already, just the 

economic devastation that we’re talking about for this part of the 

country. And for most people, if they’re like me and probably most 

of us here, our biggest asset is our home. And if we can’t get insurance, we can’t get financing. 

If the value of our home goes down overnight by 20 percent, 50 

percent, 70 percent, whatever it is, if you totally lost your home, 

it is devastating to a family. And I don’t know exactly right now, 

I can’t tell you right now exactly what the Federal response should 

be in order to help create or re-establish stability in that market, 

but I’d love to hear from you all on that and what our appropriate 

response, what our best response is to try to re-establish the stability in the housing market. 

Do you all have any comments on that now? 

Mayor WARR. I’d love to speak to that. 

That’s something that I’ve been very concerned with. The first 

thing that you should absolutely do is take the cap off the flood insurance and let people buy however much they need. And the most 

46

important thing that we understand is we have to maintain the 

ability to insure any—the new flood plain numbers may be ideal. 

And for new construction, anyone would be wise and doing themselves an injustice if they don’t build to those numbers. But there 

are thousands and thousands of homes that have been there for 

many years, decades, that have never flooded before. And if those 

homes cannot be insured fully as A paper in the insurance market, 

then we’ve just done exactly what you say, then we’ve greatly diminished the value of those homes. So we need to make sure that 

flood insurance remains available readily for preexisting structures 

that remain below the base floor elevations recommended by 

FEMA. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Senator, a quick observation. Natural Hurricane 

Hunters out at Keesler Air Force Base and the National Weather 

Service pegged the storm exactly where it was going to hit, when 

it was going to hit, and how bad it was going to be. And our local 

first responders, our policemen and firemen, many of whom lost 

their own houses, those folks stayed on the job for like a month. 

They were absolutely phenomenal. And, again, I appreciate your 

mentioning everyone else, but they need to be recognized as well. 

Senator COLLINS. Senator Landrieu. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Yes. Just to conclude, I want to thank Senator Dayton for his compliments, but I also want to say it’s really 

been a team effort with our Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas delegations. Gene, you’ve been phenomenal as well as the Senators from 

this State and the other Congressional Members. It’s been really 

tough, but I can say we’re all going to continue to work together. 

This Congressman almost spent the night in a tent outside of the 

Capitol to prove a point that his people are really living in a place 

in a way that they cannot sustain over time and how urgent it is 

for us to move forward. 

Mayors, thank you for your extraordinary work in speaking the 

truth about how you can’t have a city without a people, you can’t 

have people without a city. And we’ve got to really honor that balance between the public and the private sector. And I’m not sure 

we’ve done a good enough job of that. 

Madam Chairman, for the record, I’d just like to put in the 

record, if it hasn’t been, that we lost 28,000 homes in Florida in 

Andrew in 1992, which was the worst storm to hit America, but 

we’ve lost 65,000 homes in Mississippi, we’ve lost 215,000 homes 

in Louisiana from Katrina alone. That’s not counting Rita, which 

also hit the western side of Louisiana and the central side of Louisiana and Texas. So when Senator Pryor talks about how you restore equity, equity means hope for low, middle class, and all classes of people to restore their homes. In addition, for the record, we 

lost 18,000 businesses in Louisiana, 2,000 businesses in Mississippi. 

And in some situations, these families lost their church, their 

home, their school, and their business all in one weekend. That is 

the truth for many Gulf Coast families. Now, our churches are coming back. Our schools are coming back. But these problems of insurance, flood levels, who gets financing, how we get peoples’ equity back to them so they can send their kids to college and retire 

decently after a long life of work is a very urgent matter. 

47

So I don’t want to ask any more questions other than to thank 

Gene Taylor for his extraordinary work on coastal issues for many 

years, including coastal restoration, coastal erosion. 

And the final thing I’ll say, as we restore our coast, which is 

America’s coast, the wetlands, it protects not just Louisiana, but it 

protects Mississippi. Its biggest protection to Waveland, to Biloxi, 

to the Gulf Coast, protects us from these storms. 

We’ve let it erode, Madam Chairman, and I hope that we can 

really focus on that as well, which is not the subject of this Committee, but you’ve been very generous in your time to let me say 

that. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

I want to thank all of our witnesses today. We’re about an hour 

behind schedule, and we have people waiting for us in Louisiana, 

so we are going to make a pretty quick exit, but we stayed because 

you had so much to tell us. It was so valuable. You’ve helped increase our understanding greatly, and I thank you very much for 

being here today. 

This hearing is now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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