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31–095 PDF 2006

FEMA’S RESPONSE TO THE ROCKFORD FLOOD

FIELD HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

WASHINGTON, DC, NOVEMBER 28, 2006

Serial No. 109–65

Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois, Chairman 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland, Vice 

Chairman 

SUE KELLY, New York 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

TODD AKIN, Missouri 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

JEB BRADLEY, New Hampshire 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

THADDEUS MCCOTTER, Michigan 

RIC KELLER, Florida 

TED POE, Texas 

MICHAEL SODREL, Indiana 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska 

MICHAEL FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

NYDIA VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York 

JUANITA MILLENDER-MCDONALD, 

California 

TOM UDALL, New Mexico 

DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois 

ENI FALEOMAVAEGA, American Samoa 

DONNA CHRISTENSEN, Virgin Islands 

DANNY DAVIS, Illinois 

ED CASE, Hawaii 

MADELEINE BORDALLO, Guam 

RAU ́ L GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

LINDA SA ́ NCHEZ, California 

JOHN BARROW, Georgia 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

J. MATTHEW SZYMANSKI, Chief of Staff 

PHIL ESKELAND, Deputy Chief of Staff/Policy Director 

MICHAEL DAY, Minority Staff Director

(II) 

C O N T E N T S 

WITNESSES

Page 

Morrissey, The Honorable Lawrence J., Mayor, City of Rockford, Rockford, 

IL ........................................................................................................................... 3

Jaeger, Ms. Jennifer, Community Service Director, Human Services Department, City of Rockford, Rockford, IL .................................................................. 8

Smith, Mr. Dave, Chief, Bureau of Planning, Illinois Emergency Management 

Agency ................................................................................................................... 10

D’Araujo, Major General John R., Jr., Director, Recovery Division, Federal 

Emergency Management Agency, Department of Homeland Security ............ 25

Buikema, Mr. Edward, Region V Director, Federal Emergency Management 

Agency, Department of Homeland Security ....................................................... 49

APPENDIX

Opening statements: 

Manzullo, Hon. Donald A. ................................................................................ 60

Prepared statements: 

Jaeger, Ms. Jennifer, Community Service Director, Human Services Department, City of Rockford, Rockford, IL .................................................... 62

Smith, Mr. Dave, Chief, Bureau of Planning, Illinois Emergency Management Agency .................................................................................................. 66

D’Araujo, Major General John R., Jr., Director, Recovery Division, Federal Emergency Management Agency, Department of Homeland Security .................................................................................................................. 72

Buikema, Mr. Edward, Region V Director, Federal Emergency Management Agency, Department of Homeland Security ...................................... 72

Additional material: 

Statements by Rockford victims ...................................................................... 80

Submittal of Rockford Register Star article, ‘‘Flood victim to FEMA: We 

still feel helpless’’ .......................................................................................... 94

(III) 

(1)

FIELD HEARING ON FEMA’S RESPONSE TO 

THE ROCKFORD FLOOD 

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 28, 2006

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

Washington, DC 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 6:30 p.m., in Auditorium 

of Lincoln Middle School, 1500 Charles Street, Rockford, Illinois, 

Hon. Donald A. Manzullo [Chairman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representative Manzullo. 

Chairman MANZULLO. The Small Business Committee of the 

United States House of Representatives will come to order. We appreciate, first of all, Lincoln Middle School for the use of these 

premises. My wife is an alumnus here at Lincoln. First of all, can 

you all hear the amplification system? Is it clear? You can’t? All 

right, let’s experiment with it. 

Is this better? All right, okay. Now if at any time during the testimony you cannot hear, just stand up and say you can’t hear. All 

right? Don’t give me a half an hour of silence, don’t be bashful 

about it. 

I want to introduce, from Senator Durbin’s office, Sarah Nelson. 

Sarah, do you want to stand up? I appreciate your coming. And 

from Senator Obama’s office, Seamus Ahearn. Seamus, we appreciate your coming. I talked to both Senators this past week. They 

expressed their regrets that they could not participate in the hearing this evening. 

I also want to thank the witnesses from FEMA who came out 

from Chicago and from Washington, D.C. in order to be present at 

this hearing. We appreciate your participation. 

The order this evening is to have a three and a half minute video 

of the flood. Then Mayor Morrissey will speak. And then Jennifer 

Jaeger, the Community Services Director of Rockford will speak; 

then Dave Smith, who is the IEMA Bureau Chief for Disaster Assistance. Then we’re going to have the testimony of seven or eight 

of the disaster victims who are going to speak. Then we’re going 

to have the testimony of General Jack D’Araujo. He’s given me permission to call him General. 

Is that okay, General, if I can’t get that last name correct? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Whatever you want. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Whatever is acceptable to you. He is the 

FEMA Director of Recovery Division. And then we’re going to have 

questions that come from Mayor Morrissey and myself. And then 

we’re going to have an open microphone for the disaster victims. 

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I would encourage those of you who have been impacted by this 

flood to consider testifying. One of the reasons, in fact, the main 

reason for this hearing is so the folks from FEMA can hear first 

hand the nature and the extent of the injuries suffered and the 

damages suffered by the people here in Rockford. I talked to several of you before this hearing began. You’ve got some horrific stories. You may be a little bit timid about testifying, but if during 

the course of that open mic, you want to testify, please do so. It’s 

not like Perry Mason, where somebody is grilled. That’s not going 

to happen. It’s just an opportunity to tell exactly what happened 

to you. 

The massive flooding on Labor Day in Rockford affected 768 

homes, and initially displaced roughly 1,400 residents. The City of 

Rockford and charitable organizations have contributed more than 

$2 million to the recovery effort. However, two months have passed 

since the flood, and the 213 damaged homes are still not repaired. 

In addition, City and State officials estimate that the remaining 

uninsured and underinsured homes will require more than $5.5 

million in additional disaster assistance. Unfortunately, this is 

much more than the City and State say they are able to provide. 

Without immediate federal assistance, many families affected by 

the flood face the prospect of a winter without proper heat and 

water. In fact, tonight I was advised of one senior by the name of 

Beverly Hanson who is unable to be here this evening. She can’t 

afford to fix her furnace, and she’s heating the immediate area 

where she is living with a space heater. Her situation is not isolated. 

Shortly after the labor Day flood, Rockford Mayor Morrissey and 

Illinois Governor Blagojevich declared Rockford a city and state 

disaster area. The Governor then appealed to the President and 

FEMA for a major federal disaster declaration. A federal disaster 

declaration could provide individual assistance of up to $28,200 to 

repair damaged homes, and to replace lost personal property. 

On October 20, the President and FEMA denied the Governor’s 

request for major federal disaster declaration, claiming that the 

disaster did not rise to the level necessary to warrant federal intervention. Because of significant discrepancies between the damage 

estimates FEMA used to deny the disaster declaration, and the actual damage figures collected by the City and State, the State of 

Illinois has appealed this decision. To date, there has been no decision on the appeal. 

I trust this hearing will allow the President and FEMA to make 

a more informed decision on Governor Blagojevich’s pending appeal 

for federal disaster relief. I also hope this hearing will highlight the 

need for continued improvement in the federal disaster declaration 

process. 

I look forward to the testimony of the witnesses. Do you want to 

go ahead and start the video? 

[Chairman Manzullo’s opening statement may be found in the 

appendix.] 

The VIDEO NARRATOR. At about 2 p.m. on Labor Day 2006, there 

was an extraordinarily heavy rainfall in the City of Rockford, Illinois. According to the National Weather Service, over five inches 

of rain poured into the City in the first two hours. Almost eight 

3

inches of rain fell over the entire three-hour storm. The torrential 

rainfall quickly flooded homes, streets, and businesses. The flash 

flood overflowed creeks and filled storm sewers and drainage areas 

past their capacity. 

The relentless water collapsed foundations, swept away vehicles, 

and moved homes off their concrete slabs. The raging force of the 

water broke low-level windows, quickly filling basements with flood 

waters. In less than 45 minutes, the water levels were so extreme 

that emergency calls for rescue poured into the 911 emergency system. Over 250 calls for emergency assistance were answered by the 

time the flood had crested. 

The Rockford Fire Department rescued over 130 people from the 

flood waters, leaving homeless residents— 

[End of video audio.] 

Chairman MANZULLO. We commend you for your leadership and 

working hard with the people of Rockford and we look forward to 

your testimony. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE LAWRENCE J. MORRISSEY, 

MAYOR, CITY OF ROCKFORD, ROCKFORD, ILLINOIS 

Mr. MORRISSEY. Thank you very much, Congressman. I’d like to 

start by recognizing some of our City of Rockford Aldermen who 

have been with us working on this disaster since its start: Alderman Jeff Holt is here, Alderman Frank Beach, Alderman Doug 

Mark, and I think Pat Curran was also going to be able to make 

it, gentlemen, and to our entire City Council, I thank you for working with us through this entire disaster recovery process. 

I’d also like to start by thanking Congressman Manzullo, and 

Senators Durbin and Obama for their support of Rockford’s application for federal disaster assistance. I also thank the FEMA officials that are here tonight for accepting Congressman Manzullo’s 

invitation to hear our citizens tell their story. I would like to thank 

Governor Blagojevich, and State IEMA Director Bill Burke, and 

Dave Smith who is with us this evening for their continuing supporting of our application and our appeal. I would also again publicly thank the employees of our City who were there in the first 

instance, and continue to be there today: the firemen, the policemen, the folks from human services, the engineers and inspectors, 

and all those have who have helped respond to this disaster. And 

I thank the Red Cross and Salvation Army and the countless other 

community volunteers who have come to the aid of this community 

to provide emergency, temporary assistance. But as I will discuss 

this evening, despite all of those community efforts, despite what 

we have done as a city, our efforts fall far short of meeting the 

needs of many of those folks that are here tonight, and the names 

of which you’ll see on these boards around us. Those are the names 

of the uninsured, the folks that have simply been unable to meet 

the dollars necessary to repair their homes and bring them back 

to recovery. Much work is left to be done. 

On September 4th, our City was battered by eight inches of rain 

in approximately two hours. Hundreds of homeowners and families 

were displaced due to the rising floodwaters. Most of those families, 

unfortunately, still find themselves without safe, permanent housing. Millions of dollars in repair work has yet to be completed. 

4

We believe that FEMA’s initial process of evaluating our claims 

from this community in seeking disaster, major disaster declaration, failed. We, as a city, have been working with the State to do 

all that we can to help these families. But to date, FEMA has refused our requests for aid to those families most in need. 

Today we present, along with our appeal that has been separately filed, corrected facts which we believe justify a major disaster declaration giving our citizens a chance for access to individual assistance funds. 

Unfortunately, on October 20, 2006, FEMA Director Paulison denied Governor Blagojevich’s request for federal assistance for our 

Labor Day Flood. Again, through the support of the Governor, we 

have recently filed an appeal brief, and that brief is—that appeal 

is currently pending. 

Now when a FEMA declaration is sought by a Governor under 

the Stafford Act, we’re very familiar of the primary factors that are 

evaluated in making a recommendation to the President. I’m going 

to talk about those factors this evening. They include the concentration of damages, trauma, special populations, voluntary 

agency assistance, the presence of insurance, and the average 

amount of individual assistance available by the State. Based on 

these factors, which are addressed in our appeal brief, our Rockford 

homeowners have met the elements of the Act, and deserve a major 

disaster declaration, and the opportunity to apply for individual assistance grants. 

First, regarding the concentration of damages. The neighborhoods of Rolling Green, and Harmon Park, and Churchill Park suffered the most concentrated and extensive damage. Together, these 

two areas account for more than 90 percent of the damage suffered 

in this storm. Contrary to the October 7, 2006 Regional Disaster 

Summary, which was completed by FEMA, and to our knowledge 

was part of the basis for the determination, the total number of 

residences with major and minor damage, and those with affected 

status, ultimately was 768 homes. In fact, this represents a revised 

figure of 460 residences affected by the flood, which is a 500 percent increase over the 84 residences originally marked as affected 

by the flood. 

Why were these and other original FEMA estimates low? We believe, well, we know, that the FEMA officials spent approximately 

a day and a half in Rockford counting damaged homes. Frankly, 

from the start, many of us felt that they were in a rush to get in 

and get out, and the process was determined to reach an outcome 

that they had already anticipated. At a certain point, it was told 

to us local officials to stop counting homes affected by the flood 

damage. They ultimately packed their bags and left. However, we 

did not stop counting. And I think the spreadsheets you see represented up here on stage is a representation of that. That’s why 

we believe our estimates are right, and the original estimates were 

wrong. And that’s why we believe FEMA’s original process failed 

Rockford. 

The October 7, 2006 Disaster Summary also incorrectly states 

that 600 residents were initially displaced as a result of the flooding. Today, we know that the correct total is much closer to 1400 

residents. The Disaster Summary also erroneously indicates that 

5

75 percent of the properties that sustained flood damage were single family homes and owner-occupied. Today, we know that 90 percent of the properties that sustained damage were owner-occupied 

single family homes. These significant discrepancies demonstrate 

that the original FEMA process again failed Rockford. 

The second factor under the Stafford Act has to do with trauma. 

As you saw from the video and the photographs we have provided, 

residents of both Churchill Park and Rolling Green had to be rescued from their homes and cars to save immediate life and limb. 

The Rockford Fire Department rescued 130 persons from the flood. 

Four citizens were rushed to the emergency room. Others were 

aided by volunteers. There was a large-scale disruption of normal 

community functions and services. Two hundred and fifty-three 

calls for emergency assistance took place. Many families are still 

displaced, or without electrical power or heat. For those individuals, the trauma from this disaster continues. 

The third factor has to do with special populations. The neighborhoods hit hardest by this flood are home to many people who simply will not recover from this flood without significant government 

assistance. One in five of the residents from these affected neighborhoods are seniors on fixed incomes. More than 300 of the city’s 

residents over 85 years of age live in the affected areas. While the 

Regional Disaster Summary indicated an elderly population of 13 

percent, again we know now the population is 20 percent in the affected area. These senior citizens will experience difficulty even in 

doing minor repairs and restoration of their homes. 

In addition to those seniors on limited incomes, the area is home 

to some of the highest poverty rates in the city. In an actual survey 

done by our Human Services Department, of 100 flood victim families, we know that our poverty rates are well beyond the originally 

estimated 12 to 18 percent from census data. The poverty rate that 

we know to be in the area for single individuals is 20 percent, and 

families of two or more, 25 percent. 

This corrected data clearly demonstrates that we have a high 

concentration of seniors and low income individuals who simply 

cannot repair the flood damage to their homes without FEMA’s 

help. 

The fourth factor has to do with voluntary agency assistance. 

Again, as we said before, the Rockford Fire Department transported 130 residents to temporary shelter at a local church following the flood. Many of those folks are here this evening. The 

Red Cross and Salvation Army both provided immediate assistance 

to those flood victims. On October 7th, over a month after the flood, 

40 people, we have documented, were still living in emergency shelters. Unfortunately, the October 7th Regional Disaster Summary 

erroneously reports that we had no individuals still living in emergency shelter. Today, we still have 10 families in emergency shelters as a result of the flood damage, well over two months since 

the incident. 

The goal of our short-term assistance from this community was 

to provide a safe place for residents while they waited for assistance from insurance companies or from FEMA to help repair 

homes and move on with their lives. Unfortunately, many homeowners have moved back into their homes without repairing critical 

6

life/safety systems. They are living in unsafe environments. Despite 

support from local volunteer efforts, this community has simply 

been unable to meet the needs of these devastated families. I know 

as a Councilman and as a Mayor, it’s one of the hardest things that 

we have to do to look into the eyes of our people in need and to 

know that we simply are unable to meet the needs that they have, 

The fifth factor has to do with the presence of insurance. The October 7th Regional Disaster Summary said that 17 percent of the 

affected homeowners had flood insurance coverage. In reality, only 

10.87 percent of those homeowners had insurance. Only 30 homeowners who sustained major or minor damage had flood insurance. 

And just 11 percent, only six homeowners, of the 67 sustaining 

major damage, had flood insurance. 

Just three to eight percent of homeowner insurance companies 

have approved any claims at all. In addition, information about 

payments already made through flood insurance demonstrates that 

the estimates made by the City of Rockford in our FEMA request 

were remarkably lower than actual costs. We estimated $42,000 as 

an average repair cost to get a condemned home back into occupancy shape. According to actual recorded payments through flood 

insurance that was available in a limited amount, homes classified 

as major damage have actually required over $61,000 to repair. 

And just six percent of the homes with major damage have actually 

requested a building, mechanical, or electrical permit, which, by 

the way, we’ve waived the fees for all of those permits, but that 

corresponds with the lack of insurance covering those homes. And 

what it’s evidence of is that the recovery simply isn’t happening. 

This flood disaster, which I’m sure the officials from FEMA are 

aware of this, a flood disaster is very different from a tornado or 

a fire, which would typically be covered by an average homeowner’s 

policy. The lack of flood insurance in this disaster corresponds with 

the fact that this particular flood damage went well beyond identified floodways, and impacted poor and elderly populations. And we 

ask that FEMA take this new information into account when it examines our appeal. 

The final factor, the sixth factor, has to do with the amount of 

individual assistance provided by the State of Illinois. But despite 

suggestions or hopes to the contrary, State IEMA officials have indicated to us that the State of Illinois is unable, by law, to provide 

direct assistance to families in need. Even if the State were legally 

allowed to provide such individual disaster assistance, the fact of 

the matter is, Illinois has posted a budgetary deficit in the last four 

years. Last year, the deficit was $474 million. Some argue the 

state’s deficit is much greater, perhaps in the billions. The State 

simply is not positioned to provide the needed help we have asked 

for, and believe me, we’ve asked for it. 

Moreover, the City does not have local funds to meet the needs 

of these desperate families. Rockford has the unenviable position to 

be one of only 8 of 102 counties in the State of Illinois that is on 

the State’s poverty warning list. We have a map behind me to the 

left with those figures. We have one of the highest crime rates and 

poverty rates, unfortunately, in the State of Illinois. Our property 

taxes are also among the State’s highest, while we lag behind the 

State and the nation in economic recovery. The City has already 

7

spent over $1.2 million on overtime costs, public infrastructure repair, and temporary emergency shelter assistance to our residents 

related to this disaster. We unfortunately cannot help in the manner that these families need, which is, however, available through 

FEMA. 

I’d also like to mention a few points about hazard mitigation. In 

order to eliminate the continual flood damage and expensive recovery efforts for local, state, and federal taxpayers, we are suggesting 

that we work together under the Disaster Mitigation Act of 2000, 

and suggest the purchase of residences in the Churchill Park area 

and certain properties in Rolling Green. We believe the fair market 

of these purchases would be approximately $7.1 million. 

From the moment this disaster struck, we’ve attempted as a City 

to work with FEMA officials in a cooperative manner, and while I 

can certainly understand that the process is difficult, it should not 

be adversarial. It has seemed, however, that at times, FEMA has 

been working to defend a denial, rather than get all of the facts 

that might support a positive determination. 

Even with our attempt to appeal the original decision, we were 

originally told that we could not have the basis for FEMA’s denial 

other than a cursory reference to the Stafford Act, and a statement 

that we failed to meet its elements for assistance. We were told 

that the rest of the information was likely privileged. We then had 

to enlist the help of our Congressman and Senators, and submit 

FOIA requests to try to piece together FEMA’s basis for its original 

denial of our application. The lack of information shared by the federal government for the basis of its denial of relief makes it difficult for a poverty stricken city with limited resources to make an 

effective appeal for disaster declaration assistance. Despite the lack 

of a complete record provided to us, however, we have demonstrated clearly why hundreds of Rockford families deserve individual assistance grant opportunities from their federal government. The original facts that FEMA had were incorrect, and we’ve 

now had an opportunity to provide corrected information. 

FEMA officials relied upon the Regional Disaster Summary in 

their determination of the City of Rockford’s eligibility for flood assistance. That summary contains several critical, but inaccurate, 

statements of fact. The Governor and I and our citizens here tonight urge FEMA to re-examine our request in light of those discrepancies. We request that the President and FEMA grant the 

State of Illinois’ appeal for individual assistance, as well as hazard 

mitigation. Using the closed claims paid to NFIP policyholders as 

a guide, we estimate that the remaining uninsured and unrepaired 

homes, those families which you see represented on these spreadsheets, would require approximately $5.5 million in flood disaster 

assistance. Furthermore, we request participation in the hazard 

mitigation program to prevent future disasters. 

FEMA does not have to fail Rockford. It is not too late. We pay 

federal tax dollars just like any other community in this country. 

We urge the federal government to reverse its denial decision, and 

grant federal disaster assistance for Rockford homeowners. There 

is abundant evidence of a specific traumatic event that has devastated a unique population of elderly, poor, and uninsured residents, whose needs simply cannot be met with local and state reVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
8

sources. We have met the elements of the Stafford Act. We thank 

you for your consideration. We please ask that you grant our appeal. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you very much, Mayor Morrissey. 

Our next witness is Jennifer Jaeger, Community Service Director 

for the City of Rockford Human Services Department.. 

Jennifer, you might want to pull that mic as close to you as possible. 

STATEMENT OF JENNIFER JAEGER, HUMAN SERVICES 

DEPARTMENT, CITY OF ROCKFORD, ROCKFORD, ILLINOIS 

Ms. JAEGER. Good evening, everybody. My name is Jennifer Jaeger, and I am the Community Services Director for the Human 

Services Department. Our role in this situation was to do followup recovery and assistance after Salvation Army and Red Cross 

provided immediate assistance. The flash flood that occurred on 

September 4 is one of those situations where we were asked to provide follow-up assistance. 

On September 4, I received a call from Mayor Morrissey informing me of the need to have Community Services staff respond to 

Hallstrom Center in response to a flash flood occurring in the area. 

I dispatched staff to the Hallstrom Center, and also contacted the 

Salvation Army for assistance with food service for those evacuated 

due to the flood. When staff arrived at the Hallstrom Center, they 

found over a hundred citizens evacuated. The American Red Cross 

was on site, converting the Center into a temporary shelter for 

evacuees. Most of the residents arriving at the Center were confused, wet, and definitely shocked about how quickly this flood had 

overwhelmed them in their homes. That evening, 40 residents 

stayed at the shelter, with the others able to find temporary housing with friends or family. 

During the next two weeks, Community Services staff continued 

to provide support at the Hallstrom Center, and we also began accompanying the City of Rockford Building Department to inspect 

dwellings, especially those condemned where the residents needed 

relocation. 

As a point of contact for flooded residents, the Human Services 

Department received constant calls from residents who could not 

return to their homes, and from those who had returned to their 

homes, but who were overwhelmed by the clean-up and repair 

tasks facing them. Local churches assisted where they could, helping with cleaning mud out of basements and providing mattresses 

for families who needed to replace theirs from either water or mold 

damage. I do want to mention mold damage, because it is a consistent factor we are hearing from residents about their homes. 

Even with the water removed from the basements, they have mold 

way beyond the basement level of their homes at this point. The 

Human Services Department has been assisting as much as possible with relocation for renters, temporary housing for homeowners, and volunteer assistance where possible. 

One of the major concerns we heard from citizens as they tried 

to recover from the flood was the denial of claims from insurance 

companies. The majority of residents, 89 percent, did not have flood 

9

insurance, and since the damage was flood related, homeowner’s 

insurance was not liable for the damage. In an effort to assist residents, the State of Illinois Department of Professional Regulation, 

Insurance Division came to Rockford for two days to meet with 

homeowners and assist them in understanding their policies. I 

wanted to mention that because we do appreciate them coming to 

town to assist those homeowners who were able to be assisted with 

their insurance. 

Following the first assessment by FEMA and IEMA on September 7th through 9th, Mayor Morrissey expressed a concern that 

the damage assessment did not accurately reflect the actual damage incurred. The City of Rockford’s Human Services Department, 

Building Department and Fire Department began the process of reassessing the damage to obtain a more accurate damage summary. 

On October 5th and 6th, FEMA and IEMA, along with City of 

Rockford Building and Fire inspectors conducted a follow-up damage assessment with the result that 67 homes were identified as 

having major damage, and 239 homes were identified as having 

minor damage. At this time, FEMA chose to not count the number 

of affected homes, assuring us that it would not be a consideration 

in their decision. However, you should be aware that the number 

of affected homes is more than 500 percent greater than what we 

originally reported. 

Attached to my testimony is a spreadsheet that reflects the current status of our citizens and their properties. That’s also the information displayed on these boards here. The cost estimates that 

we’ve included for repairs come from local trade unions and the experience of our Building Department. However, it is likely that our 

estimates may be too low. We estimated about $40,000 for a condemned home, and we’ve had people come in as high as $61,000. 

Unfortunately, much of the work to be done is beyond the scope 

of our resources or the abilities of volunteers. The assistance residents need in repairing the mechanicals and electrical wiring in 

their homes, replacing or repairing foundations, and replenishing 

personal financial resources they have exhausted in their efforts to 

repair their homes. The clearest evidence of the need for federal assistance is the number of residents who have not been able to recover from this flood, more than 90 percent of you. The reason for 

this lack of recovery is simple. Neither the residents, city or state 

has the resources necessary to address the level of damage caused 

by the Labor Day Flood. Because of this, we have citizens who fall 

into several categories: those lucky 63 families who have been able 

to repair their homes completely and returned to them at this 

point, those 30 we’ve relocated permanently, those 10 families living in temporary housing while waiting for repairs to their homes, 

and those who are living in damaged and dangerous homes. Those 

who are in temporary housing must some day return to their 

homes or face the difficult decision of abandoning their homes because they cannot afford to repair them. For those 203 families residing in damaged or dangerous homes, we are very concerned 

about their safety and the safety of their families as we know that 

there is little we can do to help except continue to ask FEMA to 

reconsider their decision regarding assistance. 

Thank you. 

10

(Applause.) 

[Ms. Jaeger’s testimony may be found in the appendix.] 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Jennifer. 

Our next witness is Dave Smith, the IEMA Bureau Chief for Disaster Assistance and Preparedness. 

Dave? 

STATEMENT OF DAVE SMITH, BUREAU OF PLANNING, 

ILLINOIS EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY 

Mr. SMITH. Congressman Manzullo and Mayor Morrissey, I appreciate the opportunity to learn more from those that were most 

severely impacted by the flood. 

My name is Dave Smith, and I am the Chief of the Bureau of 

Disaster Assistance and Preparedness for the Illinois Emergency 

Management Agency. After a disaster event has occurred, I am responsible for coordinating with the Federal Emergency Management Agency to provide any supplemental assistance that may be 

required from federal agencies to aid homeowners, renters, businesses, and units of government in their recovery from the impact 

of the event. The flash flood that occurred on September 4, 2006 

in the City of Rockford and portions of Winnebago County is one 

of those events. 

My involvement with the Labor Day flooding began on Wednesday, September 6. Three IEMA staff and I traveled to Rockford to 

make a general assessment of the flood damage and determine the 

type of disaster assistance that may meet the needs of the homeowners, renters, businesses, and units of government in the disaster area. Throughout the day on Wednesday, we toured the most 

severely impacted areas in Rockford along the Keith Creek drainage area. After the tour, I recommended to William C. Burke, Director of IEMA, that we request FEMA join us in a more detailed 

assessment of the damages. Director Burke agreed, and I contacted 

the FEMA Region V office to coordinate the damage assessment. 

When FEMA conducts a damage assessment jointly with a state, 

it is known as a Preliminary Damage Assessment, or PDA. 

The purpose of the PDA is to collect information on the disaster 

damage, and to verify the damage information that had been initially collected by local emergency management officials. Information collected during the PDA serves as the basis for determining 

if the Governor should request Federal disaster assistance. The 

PDA was scheduled to begin on Friday, September 8, and continue 

until all damages identified by local officials had been viewed. 

On Thursday, September 7, Governor Blagojevich declared that 

a disaster exists in Winnebago County. The purpose of the disaster 

declaration was to authorize State agencies to provide assistance in 

the disaster area, authorize the reassessment of disaster damaged 

real property, and make possible a request for Federal assistance 

if determined necessary. I explained the PDA process and the possibility of requesting Federal disaster assistance to Rockford officials in the Mayor’s conference room on Thursday afternoon. I described the importance of the local official’s role of identifying the 

damaged areas during the PDA, and ensuring that the PDA team 

was aware of the areas impacted by the flash flood. 

11

The PDA was completed approximately 8 p.m. on Saturday, September 9. Personnel from the Winnebago County Sheriff’s Department and the Rockford Fire Department accompanied the Federal 

and State damage assessment teams throughout the two-day assessment. City and county officials lead the damage assessment 

teams on a tour of all the areas that were damaged, and had been 

reported or identified. A PDA is a team effort involving state and 

local and federal officials. During the PDA, the function of local officials is to make sure that the PDA team is aware of all damaged 

areas. The function of the state and federal members of the team 

is to determine the impact of the disaster, and identify state and/

or Federal disaster assistance programs that can meet the needs of 

the people and the community affected by the disaster. Most important is the fact that the PDA is a joint effort involving local, State 

and Federal officials, and therefore ensures that the damages are 

viewed by all levels of government at the same time and under the 

same conditions. 

On completion of the PDA, the State reviews the information collected. A determination on the need to request Federal disaster assistance is based upon the unmet needs of those impacted by the 

disaster, and the availability of disaster assistance through State 

and Federal disaster assistance programs. It was determined that 

there were no State programs that could provide the necessary disaster recovery assistance to the homeowners, renters, and businesses impacted by the flash flood. On September 11, 2006, Governor Blagojevich requested Federal disaster assistance for the purpose of aiding the people who incurred damages to their homes, 

personal property and businesses as a result of the Labor Day flash 

flood. 

It is difficult to assess basement flooding following a flash flood. 

The nature of a flash flood is that the water rises and recedes rapidly. Without the homes sitting in the floodwater, it is difficult to 

identify homes with damage that is not visible from the outside. 

The total impact of a flash flood that causes basement flooding may 

not become totally apparent until days or even weeks following the 

event. Many times, the only visible sign that a home has been damaged is the personal property that appears on the street as trash 

needing to be removed. This may not occur in the days immediately 

following the flash flood, but eventually, the destroyed property 

will likely appear upon the curb. 

During the month of September, the City of Rockford collected 

additional disaster damage from homeowners and renters as they 

began to discover the real affect of the flood—the flooding had on 

their property. In an effort to obtain new information that accurately reflected the damages throughout the City, IEMA and 

FEMA conducted an additional damage assessment at the City’s request on October 5 and 6. Rockford officials, IEMA and FEMA staff 

conducted this follow-up damage assessment jointly in the same 

manner as the original PDA. All involved agreed that the revised 

damage assessment information was the best information available 

at that time using the PDA criteria for assessing residential damage. 

On October 20, 2006, FEMA denied the Governor’s request for 

major disaster declaration, which would have provided Federal disVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
12

aster assistance to the people in Winnebago County suffering from 

the Labor Day flash flood. The denial letter indicated that damage 

to the private sector in the City of Rockford and portions of Winnebago County was not of such severity and magnitude as to be beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments. 

On October 24, 2006, Governor Blagojevich appealed the FEMA 

denial of disaster assistance. The appeal was based upon additional 

information provided by the City of Rockford, and the fact that 

there are no current programs administered by State agencies designed to provide the needed disaster relief. On November 20, 2006, 

William C. Burke, IEMA Director, provided additional information 

as submitted by the City of Rockford to support the appeal of the 

disaster declaration denial. 

The State maintains a disaster relief fund that can be used to 

pay the expenses of State agencies during disaster response. The 

State Disaster Relief Fund cannot be used to provide private relief 

to persons sustaining property damage as the result of a disaster. 

Although homeowners are encouraged to maintain flood insurance, 

some do not. If a major disaster was declared, some individuals, 

families and businesses could receive assistance from the Small 

Business Administration low interest loan program, and others 

would qualify for grants to repair their disaster damaged home or 

replace essential personal property, even though they do not maintain flood insurance. Without Federal disaster assistance or insurance proceeds, the people most severely impacted by the disaster 

would have to rely on private disaster relief organizations for the 

needed assistance. 

During the weeks following the flash flood disaster, IEMA has 

maintained close and frequent contact with the City of Rockford 

emergency management officials. Likewise, IEMA will continue to 

work with the City of Rockford to identify cost effective flood mitigation projects that could potentially reduce future flood damage in 

the areas most severely impacted by the Labor Day storms and 

flooding. 

Thank you for allowing me to participate in the Committee’s 

hearing. 

(Applause.) 

[Mr. Smith’s testimony may be found in the appendix.] 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. Now we have an opportunity 

to hear from several of the victims that were involved in the flood. 

I have a list here, and we’ll go in this order: Roger McVay, Janeal 

Lantz, Brian Willis, Lourdes Macias, Reva Goettsch, Livetta Houston, Brenda Arnold, Trisha Scanlon. 

But before we do that, I want to take a very brief testimony from 

Alderman Frank Beach, who represents—Frank, you want to go 

now? I see you’ve got a bunch of pages. Can you limit it to a couple 

of minutes? 

Mr. BEACH. No, this is just the printed testimony. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, go ahead. 

Mr. BEACH. Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. State your name and spell it for the 

record. 

Mr. BEACH. My name is Franklin Beach, B-E-A-C-H. I’m an Alderman for the City of Rockford representing the Tenth Ward, one 

13

of the four wards that were affected by the flood. And I thank you, 

Congressman Manzullo, for arranging this event, this evening, and 

for you gentlemen from FEMA to come out here to sometimes take 

a commitment that has a thankless ending or a generous future for 

us. 

I promise no long speeches, just two pages. I want to say again 

that I represent one of the wards. You’ve heard from our people, 

you certainly sure will hear from our people. They are really hurting, they are concerned, and they are desperate with no means for 

help. We are in debt to the organizations that were mentioned earlier, the Civic Organization, Salvation Army, and so forth, for stepping up to the plate to do all that they can. 

I might mention here from what statistics I’ve read that the me- dium income for the flood victims ranged from $28,000 to $38,000 

a year. That’s lower than the medium income for the whole county 

area. The county area represents about $46,000 a year, and these 

folks are in a lower category. Many of them, I believe the percentage is somewhere around 12 percent, is at the poverty level. And 

they are the ones that are most definitely affected by this. 

Neither the State or the City, as has been mentioned, has proper 

resources to cover this. In my concluding remarks, I just want to 

simply say, as I can from my heart to yours, that you men are in 

authority. And you can speak words that can begin the process of 

bringing much needed relief to our community, and to grateful families here in Rockford. The winter months are here, we need your 

help, please reconsider, because if you won’t help, who will? Thank 

you so much. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Alderman. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Roger McVay, does the stenographer, do 

you have a list of all the witnesses? All right. Chris, you want to 

give him a list of witnesses? Mr. McVay, go ahead. 

Mr. MCVAY. Hi. My name is Roger McVay. I lived at 2733 Kansas Street. My whole wall was caved in by the flood. About two or 

three days later, FEMA was out there, IEMA was out there. We 

was throwing out mud and everything else. We lost everything 

down in the basement. That can’t be replaced. I had four years of 

military pictures, three years over in Vietnam. And they can’t be 

replaced. 

And I’m not the only one that’s been hurt by this flood, but 

FEMA and IEMA told me and my wife, they said do not worry. 

You’re going to have help. And I haven’t seen it yet. What are you 

guys going to do. 

Can you answer that? 

Chairman MANZULLO. Would anybody like to answer that? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Can you hear me? 

Chairman MANZULLO. Yes. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman, if I have the opportunity to explain some of this in my testimony. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Why don’t we do this? Let’s take the testimony of the witnesses, and then we’ll give you a full and complete 

opportunity to—once you’ve heard all of that, to be able to respond 

along with your testimony. 

Does that sound like a good procedure, General? 

14

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Yes, sir. That would be fine. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, thank you. Our next witness is 

Janeal Lantz. 

Ms. LANTZ. On Monday, September 4, 2006, in just a matter of 

minutes, I literally lost everything I owned as a result of an unexpected downpour of rain which resulted in a flood. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Janeal, why don’t you start over, and you 

can speak a little bit slower. 

Ms. LANTZ. Okay. My last name is Lantz, L-A-N-T-Z. 

On Monday, September 4, 2006, in just a matter of minutes, I 

literally lost everything I owned as a result of an unexpected downpour of rain which resulted in a flood. I lost a total of 69 years of 

living. Not only did I lose everything from household furnishings 

and clothes, I lost a lifetime of irreplaceable family pictures and 

memories. 

I am a single woman over 65 years old, and own a duplex on 

14th Street. I live in one half, and rent the other half for much 

needed income. The flood caused damage to the entire duplex, and 

nothing was salvageable. I am still not able to return to my home, 

because it is not liveable as of yet. This flood has resulted in an 

extreme financial burden for me, as I count on the rental income 

to help with my monthly mortgage payments. 

In April, May and June of 2006, the rental portion of the duplex 

underwent a much needed renovation and upgrade so as to keep 

the neighborhood appearance as nice as possible. The renovations 

were such a substantial amount of money that I had to take out 

a second mortgage to be able to pay for the renovations. I have 

worked all my life. Prior to retiring three years ago, I purchased 

all new furniture, including a refrigerator and bedroom set, replaced all the carpeting and flooring in my home, as well as purchased miscellaneous household items including living room curtains, hoping these items would last the rest of my lifetime. 

I have been hospitalized twice this year, May and June, with a 

severe heart condition. This flood has been the devastation of my 

life. It has caused a substantial financial burden, as I am not sure 

if and when I will be able to repair in the rental portion of the duplex. Without some financial assistance, I have serious doubts that 

the repairs will be feasible. I would then lose my home to foreclosure as my ability to pay the mortgage would be no more. I have 

also experienced a significant amount of anxiety and health problems due to the stress of not knowing what the outcome will be of 

my home. 

Losing my home to the flood was bad enough. I just pray I don’t 

lose it again in foreclosure if there is no financial assistance provided. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. I also want to recognize that Alderman 

Holt is with us. Alderman, where are you? Thank you. 

Brian Willis. 

Mr. WILLIS. Hi, my name is Brian Willis, W-I-L-L-I-S. On September 4, 2006, the southeast part of Rockford experienced a heavy 

rainstorm which caused severe flooding. My house on Nebraska 

Road in the Rolling Green neighborhood was in the direct path of 

the runoff, causing two thirds of a basement wall to collapse in 

15

while my wife and I were in the basement trying to shut one of the 

windows that had been forced open by the water. 

As the wall caved in next to us, I told my wife to get upstairs, 

I actually probably yelled at her. For whatever the reason, I hesitated to go upstairs. When my wife got to the top of the stairs and 

didn’t see me behind her, she thought I was a dead man. That feeling took a long time to go away, and probably still is there. 

In less than five minutes, the basement was full of water, and 

made us wonder if any other wall would collapse. We were trapped 

in our home, because by then the water was two to three deep all 

around our house. Also, our two-car garage was severely damaged 

to the point it was demolished. I think it was the scariest thing we 

have ever had to go through. 

After the water subsided, and the shock and realization of what 

took place set in, the real nightmare started. Nothing in life could 

ever prepare someone for what we went through. 

I remember asking myself over and over, will we survive this? 

What do we do now? In short, the feelings of helplessness were 

very hard to take at times. In fact, we still feel helpless today. 

When Heather from the Rockford Human Services called me to ask 

if I wanted to participate in this meeting, I thought, it’s worth a 

shot, but then I started wondering if participating was worth it, 

and why this meeting was even taking place. FEMA already said 

no to funding. Why is the head of FEMA coming here? What could 

he possibly gain from coming here and listening to a bunch of sob 

stories from a bunch of flood victims? Could it be that he was—

could it be that he will be adding the human factor into his decision to help, not just the money factor? My hope is you will reconsider. 

As it stands now, we suffered about $30,000 plus in damages to 

get us back where we were, but that is not including repairing the 

other two walls that are now bulging into my basement, that will 

eventually need repairing or all of the personal property lost. 

In closing, money talks, BS walks. If you’re going to help, help. 

If not, we have enough of our own to deal with. We don’t need 

yours. Thanks. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Lourdes Macias. 

Mr. MACIAS. My name is Eric Macias. I’m representing my mother. She is not very good in English. 

I’m 16 years old. I don’t know a lot about the money, about the 

situation. My story was, I was out of town. I was coming home 

when I got hit by the storm. I pulled over at a church that was hit 

and everything. You guys know about the losses. My mother called 

me on the phone. She wanted me to come home. I was out of town 

for the week. 

Chairman MANZULLO. You have to take the gum out. Okay? 

That’s a rule in school. Okay? 

(Applause.) 

Mr. MACIAS. Excuse me. 

Chairman MANZULLO. We’re in school, so we have to abide by 

those rules. 

Mr. MACIAS. Yes. I came home after—I had to circulate all of 

Rockford because all the major streets were closed off. I had to cirVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
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culate out of Rockford. I parked two blocks away from my home. 

I live on 15th and 8th. I parked at Nelson School, which was high 

ground. I couldn’t imagine, I didn’t imagine how bad it was. The 

cars were full. I had to come to the aid of my family. They were 

all there. I took off my clothes. I had some shorts. Took off my 

shorts, and I was running down the flood. People were looking at 

me like, hey, you’re going the wrong way. I had to rescue my family. I got to my door. As soon as I got there, I heard a loud boom. 

The door opened. My dad was coming out with my little sister. I 

saw my mother’s eyes. She was pale. She looked around. She 

looked outside the house. She was about to pass out. Seeing my 

mother like that, I’m never going to forget it. 

I went inside the house. I didn’t know what had happened. I 

grabbed my brother. I grabbed my sister. We all left. When I went 

back, I found out that the loud bang, it was the wall that collapsed. 

The wall collapsed when my family was inside the house. 

It was a miracle that my dad, last year he installed a new bathroom, and because of that bathroom, it held extra support. Because 

of that bathroom, the whole wall didn’t come in. If the whole wall 

would have come in, my family would have come in with it. I 

wasn’t home. I couldn’t have done nothing about it. That’s a big 

burden that I would have had to live with. 

Please take into consideration not only the losses, but the emotions. You know the emotional stuff, my dad, we’ve been working 

every day, weekends at my house trying to repair it, trying to do 

what we can do. My grades have dropped. It’s just hard. It’s a hard 

thing. Not only the economical, but the emotional. 

Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. The written statement of Lourdes Macias, 

along with the written statements of all others will be made part 

of the permanent record without objection. 

Our next witness is Reva Goettsch. I got the first name right. 

Ms. GOETTSCH. Hi. Reva Goettsch, G-O-E-T-T-S-C-H. We have no 

idea why our family wasn’t in the basement on September 4th. Our 

family room is down there, and that’s where we spend all of our 

time. We normally have people over for Labor Day Weekend, and 

with the rain, we could have had a lot of people down in our basement. We decided just to have a lazy day, and just do chores and 

whatever, lay around. 

I was making supper as my daughter, Caitlin, was getting ready 

to go to work. She needed to be there at 5. She got a call from a 

friend telling her not to go, that Charles Street was flooded and she 

wouldn’t be able to drive to Imperial Palace. We looked outside, 

and people were trying to drive through the intersection at 10th 

Street and 6th Avenue. There was around six feet of water spewing 

out of the manhole cover. Water was starting to come into our yard 

as more cars started to drive through. 

I moved two of our cars up a half a block from 10th Street and 

6th Avenue, up to closer to 10th Street and 7th. About 10 years 

ago, we approximately had three to four inches of water in the 

basement, so my husband, Stan, went downstairs to check for the 

water. Water was starting to seep in. He had a CD collection worth 

about $20,000. So he was moving off the lower CD racks and placVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
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ing them on the table. I followed him, and started unplugging the 

stereo systems and the TVs. He had only made it about one shelf 

of a CD rack before the water started just pouring in around his 

feet. 

He filled a laundry basket with the CDs and brought them upstairs, and as I grabbed his Postal Uniform and my son’s football 

jerseys, I called for my daughter Caitlin to get her basket of clothes 

from the laundry room. When Stan started going back down the 

stairs to retrieve more stuff, he heard a crackle, and he saw the 

wall collapse. Caitlin was at the bottom of the stairs with a basket 

of clothes in her hand. We saw the basement start to fill with 

water as we were screaming for her to move, just get up the stairs. 

She started running up the stairs as the water pushed our sofa 

right behind her. All of this happened in about five minutes. The 

Fire Department had already had a rope tied to the neighbor’s 

stairs, so I called out to them that our basement had collapsed. 

They told us to take a jacket and leave, and the current was so 

strong on 6th Avenue, they had to carry Caitlin across the street 

to the neighbor’s porch. That’s her picture that they show in the 

paper. 

The Fire Department wanted to take us to Hallstrom Center, but 

our cars were only parked that half block up. There was no water 

at all on 10th Street and 7th Avenue. A Police Officer took us to 

our cars, and it took us about 15 minutes to just get that half 

block. 

We picked up our son and went to my sister’s house, planning 

on staying the night. We realized we were soaked and we didn’t 

have any clothes. I’m not sure of the time, but we went to WalMart squishing through all wet, buying clothes for that night and 

the next day. We spent the next two nights at Fairfield Inn. We 

then stayed a week at Excel Inn because it had a small kitchen, 

and on September 15th, we moved into a four room apartment. 

The day after the flood, we returned to the house to check out 

the damage. The entire front basement wall of the house had collapsed, and there was around three feet of mud in the basement. 

While we were there, the City came and told us to leave, that they 

had condemned the house. 

I called the insurance companies, but after the call, I didn’t know 

what else to do. This was the most frustrating part of the whole 

ordeal. I attended a meeting on 5th Avenue and expressed this to 

someone from the City. I wanted my household hoisted up. I didn’t 

want it to collapse. They offered a number for someone in Genoa, 

and they came within two days to hoist the house up to prevent 

collapse. After another meeting that the City hosted, at Stockholm, 

and I learned of a volunteer cleanup that was going to be held on 

Saturday. And Maywood Evangelical came on Saturday and took 

all the large items out. 

I was working with A-1 Restoration to repair the basement, but 

nothing was happening. They were obviously overwhelmed when 

they were asking me for leads on masonry repairs. After the house 

was hoisted up and large items were removed, everything seemed 

to come to a halt. There was no one available to do the repairs at 

all in town. I told A-1 and my insurance agent that they needed 

to place plywood around the basement so that my house would not 

18

be vandalized. They didn’t do this, and on October 3rd, someone 

merely walked through my basement into my home and stole all 

of our electronic items, my jewelry, and went through all of our 

personal items. 

I then had to cancel most of our credit cards. The day of the burglary, I told my son to look for anyone repairing a basement. We 

were taking back control. We found a sign and a contractor. After 

two walls being replaced, and the third one being dug out and resealed, we moved back into our house last weekend. We never realized how much we had in our basement, some things like Stan’s 

glasses, contacts, furniture, appliances and all our clothes can be 

replaced. Our videos of the kids, slides from Stan’s parents’ collector albums and family pictures cannot. But most importantly, 

our children have suffered a lot. My son has asthma, and we had 

to bring our animals with us to the four bedroom apartment. We 

could no longer afford to board them. His asthma flared up since 

he was in a small apartment with a cat and a dog. He is now taking a stronger medication to control the flare ups. He’s missed an 

unbelievable amount of school. Our above-average student just received two failing grades on his report card. 

My daughter has also missed a lot of school. We just received a 

warning list, a warning from East regarding attendance. She is 

now seeing a doctor for counseling to help her deal with the trauma 

of September 4th. We almost lost her to the flood. 

Our basement is almost finished, and we’re living at our house. 

Last weekend, I was raking leaves from the street. The storm 

sewer on the north side of my house is packed with leaves. It was 

the only one that was operational on the day of the flood. The other 

corners have been collapsed for 10 years. I’ve called the City for 

years to repair the storm sewers on the other corners, but I was 

told there was no money to do so. Instead, they installed another 

one on the other side of my property to help take some of the 

water. It’s no surprise that, of the four corners, my home was the 

only home condemned and the only one that had any damage as 

far as I’m aware. 

There was standing water on the corner of the street this morning. The cement edge of the creek by my home is now eroded after 

the flood, and there is around six feet of mud and garbage blocking 

the water flow under the bridge. We signed an authorization 

around five years ago for the city to come on to our property and 

repair the creek. We never saw anyone. The creek has not been 

cleaned in at least 10 years. 

The City of Rockford must maintain and repair the storm sewer 

system, and keep the creek cleaned and replace portions of it when 

needed. 

The flood cost, with personal items lost and repairs, around 

$60,000. We had $31,000 of structural flood insurance. I don’t want 

and can’t afford to have a repeat of this problem when the spring 

thaw starts. Major renovations on the creek and the sewer systems 

need to be done now, not after another three-year study. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Reva, you did have flood insurance? 

Ms. GOETTSCH. Yes. 

19

Chairman MANZULLO. Why did they only pay $31,000 of the 

$60,000? 

Ms. GOETTSCH. Because I’ve been angry at First Stolman Bank 

for 23 years that I had to have flood insurance, and that’s what the 

amount of my loan was on my home. Every year, I would take it 

down to match the loan amount on my home. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And the $60,000, was that structural repairs? 

Ms. GOETTSCH. No. No, I think the structural was $46,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. $46,000? 

Ms. GOETTSCH. That includes the furnace and everything. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, and so the flood insurance diminishes with the amount of the mortgage, principle, is that correct? 

Ms. GOETTSCH. Yes, that was my choice. They cut us a check for 

the $31,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. Our next witness is Livetta 

Houston. Do you have some pictures for us, Livetta? Chris, do you 

want to help her with those pictures? She might want to show 

them to the folks at FEMA. 

Did you need the pictures in your testimony, Livetta? All right. 

Go ahead. 

Ms. HOUSTON. Hello, my name is Livetta Houston. My family 

and I resided at 2528 Holmes Street, Apartment 6. I am here to 

tell you about the pain and suffering we went through on September 4, 2006. Here are some pictures we took the next day. 

Water pouring in the windows throughout the apartment. Notice, 

I didn’t say ‘‘homes,’’ because I can’t afford a home. I am not a 

homeowner, but this is an apartment which my family and I had 

called home. 

My fiance had ran to the back of the apartment to get our son, 

A.J. out of the bed. His bed was under a window with an air condition unit in it. Just in time, my fiance pulled my son by his feet, 

right before the air conditioning unit fell on the bed where my son 

was laying. 

We had to run through the apartment to get to the front door 

of the apartment where my daughter was holding the door open. 

The electricity was still on. The landlord did not cut it off while we 

were still there, and the water was above my knees. 

My children had no shoes, only pajamas on. None of us had no 

jackets or shoes. My children were crying, and asking, why is this 

happening? I had no answer and I still don’t. After what we went 

through, we have every right to know what’s going to happen. Why 

isn’t our situation considered a disaster? Many of us here tonight 

went through so much we didn’t see coming, and it wasn’t an act 

of God. 

These days, I have to work extra hard to get what I had already 

worked for. Christmas this year isn’t. Help us here in Rockford. 

Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Livetta, where did you move after you left 

your home? 

Ms. HOUSTON. Right now? In the beginning, we started—we 

saved a lot of money and moved to 2528 Palm Street where it was 

a more convenient place to raise my kids. Now I’m back in the 

20

same situation. I live off of Dempster, where it’s not safe for my 

kids to walk. 

Chairman MANZULLO. You want to explain to the gentlemen 

from FEMA what Jane Adams Home is? 

Ms. HOUSTON. Excuse me? 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to explain to the gentleman 

from FEMA what the Jane Adams home is? 

Ms. HOUSTON. Jane Adams is a complex out here where they put 

low family income, where you have to meet the standards, the 

guidelines, you have to do what you’re told. When I moved out of 

there, I was paying $100 and something for rent, and I didn’t want 

that for my family and my two kids. So I worked extra hard. I 

worked at the Hoffman House. I got a job. I moved to a place where 

I was paying $425 a month. Now I’ve got to work and live somewhere where I got to pay $575 where it just isn’t safe. I liked it 

where I was. I mean, what are you going to do for us? I mean, we 

weren’t in a hurricane, but still we suffered. We lost. I mean my 

two kids, their birth certificates, one of my children was born here, 

and one was born out of Illinois. How will I get that back? I can’t 

get none of that back. 

Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Livetta. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Our next witness is Brenda Arnold. Rich, 

do you want to help her get the mic? 

Brenda, you might want to stay there so we can see. If you get 

too much closer, we won’t be able to see you. Can you all see her? 

Okay. 

Ms. ARNOLD. Hi. My name is Brenda Arnold, A-R-N-O-L-D. We 

reside at 1811 15th Street, where we’re first time homeowners. We 

had lived there not quite two years, and as far as it goes for me, 

I have a lot of health problems. On September 4th of the flood, our 

home was flooded. My husband went to go down to the basement, 

and he met the water coming up the stairs, windows cracking and 

all. I have to be confined to a wheelchair because I’m not able to 

walk. Well, I can walk, but not like everyone else. I’m not able to 

get around without a walker or a cane or crutches or something 

like that. 

During the flood, the water came all the way up to the second 

floor. We’re sitting in there with the electricity still on. The electrical box is downstairs, the outlet is covered with water. We were 

in so much danger being there in that water waiting to be rescued, 

and it was just God’s will that any of us didn’t get electrocuted. 

The flood was so devastating to us. It was nine of us in the home 

at that time because we were about to sit down and eat. The kids 

had came in from Arkansas and here to cook and everything for me 

and my husband so we could celebrate that day. And everything 

happened so fast that, you know, we couldn’t believe it. You hear 

about these things way off, but you don’t expect them in your 

home. No, there was no fatalities, but yet and still a lot of people 

lost a lot of things. And could have lost their life, but God didn’t 

see fit. 

I was afraid because I’m sitting there in my chair, calling 911. 

I think I made about 10 calls to 911 to be rescued on that night. 

21

It was like 9 o’clock that night before we got rescued, and that was 

the guys from Belvedere that came in and rescued us. And I thank 

God for that. 

We lost our home. It’s been condemned. We lost everything in the 

home. We lost vehicles, and none of this stuff can be recovered. A 

lot of my medical equipment, motorized wheelchairs, walkers, just 

everything that I needed for even medications that was lost in the 

flood, clothing. We didn’t have any clothing. We lived in a hotel for 

two months. Now we’re in an apartment. Now we have to pay 

mortgage plus pay rent. We’re not able to afford that. We know 

that the money is there to help, but will you help? That is the 

question. Not just for me, but for everyone that is here. 

(Applause.) 

If you haven’t walked in our shoes, you really don’t know what 

we’re going through. And to think that it may not happen to you 

some day is really something you all will think about. We didn’t 

ask for the flood. It was an act of God, and He did spare our lives, 

and I don’t feel like He brought any of us this far to leave us, and 

I’m praying and hoping that He will put on your heart, your mind, 

to help the people of Rockford, Illinois to restore—we can’t restore 

everything. We know this. But if you would just help to put us 

back in our homes to help us. 

Some of us can’t afford to go out and say, well, I’m going to take 

out a loan. Why are we going to take out a loan for homes and 

things when we already have a lot of overhead? We can’t afford it. 

We did have flood insurance, but like the other lady was saying, 

it don’t cover the home. It don’t cover what was in the home. The 

homeowner’s insurance, we have that. But no, it’s not covered by 

flood. We don’t have flood—it don’t cover that. 

So what are we, as citizens of Rockford, to do? Think about it. 

It could have been you. So don’t just turn your backs on us because 

there was no fatalities, or because it wasn’t you. But consider that 

it could have been you. 

I miss my home. And I could have lost my kids and my 

grandkids on that day. If not drowned, we all could have been electrocuted sitting right there in the house. I had even called ConEd 

to come and shut the electricity off. Do you know when it got shut 

off? A few days later. A few days later. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Brenda, how much flood insurance? 

Ms. ARNOLD. $35,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And have you received estimates on the 

cost to fix your house? 

Ms. ARNOLD. It’s way over— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Could you identify yourself and speak into 

the microphone? 

Ms. AKEENO ARNOLD. I’m Brenda Arnold’s daughter, Akeeno Arnold. The estimated damages of the flood for our home were around 

$130,000 or more because a wall had caved in. We’re still dealing 

with the mud being in the basement, major items still being in the 

basement. The house actually needs to be lifted. Both of my parents are disabled and on fixed incomes, and they’re not able to fix 

the damages that are going on with the house, and my mother had 

suffered from open heart surgery earlier that year, and she’s dealing with an overwhelming amount of stress, dealing with the insurVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
22

ance companies and what not, trying to figure out what’s the next 

step. And we just implore that you just help us, and help us in an 

effort to fix what is damaged. And we thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. How much are the mortgage payments 

each month? 

Ms. AKEENO ARNOLD. $914. 

Chairman MANZULLO. $914? 

Ms. AKEENO ARNOLD. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And what’s the balance of the mortgage? 

Ms. AKEENO ARNOLD. $51,000. We had only been there a year 

and a half. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Tricia Scanlon. 

Ms. SCANLON. Hi, my name is Tricia Scanlon, S-C-A-N-L-O-N. 

My family and I were severely affected by the Labor Day Flood as 

well. 

We actually had several friends come and help us remove all of 

our walls and flooring the very next day and have estimated our 

damage at about $40,000. 

Every bit of carpeting and padding in our home needed to be removed, along with the bottom two feet of the dry wall and the plaster. One entire room needed to be gutted, as the subfloor and walls 

were made from particle board. The foundation has sunk where the 

quarter basement used to exist. Our furnace needed to be replaced. 

I myself did some research on how to ensure that we can remove 

any and all material that could grow mold and/or bacteria and I 

believe we did a decent job. We had our well water tested. It was 

positive for e.Coli as well as coliform. We then had a well contractor come out and he has chlorinated the well, but unfortunately, we are still unable to drink our water. 

We have purchased a water cooler and five gallon bottles of 

water for our consumption. Obviously, all of this costs money and 

we quickly ran out of it. 

One point I would like to make is that our home is located on 

Hillcrest Road far from Keith Creek. From the information that I 

gathered, we’re located in Zone B and our home is not even on a 

flood plain map. All of the water damage to our home was from the 

runoff that came from three different directions from that rainfall 

event. We did not have flood insurance. We were not even offered 

flood insurance for our home. 

My three-year-old son’s room was the most adversely affected 

and we’ve done our best to make his space liveable. Fortunately, 

I come from a family of do-it-yourselfers and we are able to do a 

lot of this ourselves. However, we don’t have any more money to 

purchase the supplies that we need to complete the restoration of 

our home. We consider ourselves to be the lucky ones. We’re able 

to live in our home. What about all the rest of these people that 

are still not returning to their homes? Please, reconsider your decision. We need help. We can’t do this on our own. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. I want to slip in two more witnesses. This young lady, why don’t you come up and identify yourVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
23

self. Spell your last name for the record and then when you’re finished, Jeff Holt, the Alderman, an Alderman who represents some 

of the area impacted, wants to give a brief statement. 

Go ahead, please. 

Ms. KNIGHT. My name is Tanya. My last name is Knight, K-NI-G-H-T. 

I have been living in Elgin in low-income housing. I have four 

children and in July I purchased my home here in Rockford. It was 

my dream. Two months later, the flood comes. All my children’s 

clothes, everything I worked for was washed away. Half the stuff 

was still in the basement in boxes because I had only been there 

for two months. 

We were trapped in the house. The water, I had over 14, easily 

14 feet of water come into my house. I live on 7th Avenue and the 

creek is right in my backyard, so I was getting flooded from four 

different directions. 

I’m the only one in my house who can swim so I could not get 

my four children out of the house because I was watching big, huge 

dumpsters, I mean commercial dumpsters flowing down the road, 

pieces of people’s porches, cars bumping into each other, people 

outside—the people that live next door to me are very elderly and 

they were screaming for help and I couldn’t even get to them to 

help them. 

This flood has changed my life. It has changed my children’s life. 

To hear my 12-year-old daughter and my 8-year-old daughter crying are they going to die and being trapped in a house with sewage 

and hearing my animals in the basement dying and there’s nothing 

worse than hearing an animal dying and you can’t do anything and 

your children are hearing that, to have nothing left, no fridge, no 

cabinets, no nothing. 

Yes, I had flood insurance. Have I seen a penny of it? No. I’m 

still fighting them because they’re trying to tell our family that all 

the damage to my whole basement buckling where the earth gave 

way and the water was coming up through the basement and the 

foundation cracked so severely, they’re still trying to say it was due 

to the house settling. The house didn’t settle that day. A flood happened that day, a flash flood happened that day. 

We were told, we got rescued in a boat. Do you know what that 

feels like to leave your house in a boat? A boat that you worked 

so hard to watch your dream get washed away. I’m not trying to 

give you a sob story. I’m just trying to let you know we are hardworking people. That was our dream. This is our dream. Look at 

these people. 

(Applause.) 

Please, take one minute, please, just take one minute and look 

at these families. It’s not me, it’s not them. It’s everybody. We were 

promised that you would help us. We were told—I lived at a shelter. I am still homeless. I can’t even go home. There is no Christmas for my children. I work six days a week right now and every 

penny I have is trying to fix this house that was my dream. Please 

help my children go home. Help us. I just want to go home. We 

want to go home. 

(Laughter.) 

Thank you. 

24

Chairman MANZULLO. Tanya, do you want to tell us the name of 

the insurance company? 

Ms. KNIGHT. I’m not here to slander anybody. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. We’re just trying to help and sometimes by letting people know that the insurance company is—this 

is not percolating water, this is crap that they gave you. 

Ms. KNIGHT. It was Farmers Insurance. My cheapest estimate to fix my home was $45,000. Do you know what the insurance is offering me? $20,000. Tell me what that is going to fix? Tell me that. 

I’m living with a family from a church, the Hallstrom Center, the 

Four City Fellowship that owns the building. I’m living with a family I only knew three days. I’ve been there for months now. I’m 

sure they want their home back. I want to go home. We want to 

go home. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Tanya. 

Jeff Holt? 

Mr. HOLT. Thank you, Congressman Manzullo and gentlemen 

from FEMA. What you heard tonight were a number of stories 

from residents in Rockford that were devastated by a freak storm, 

as you know. The problem is is that these are only a small number 

and a small representation of the devastation and the impact that 

families are facing throughout our community. 

We’re not asking you to solve all of our problems. We’re not asking you to replace our personal belongings like photos and memories because you cannot simply do that. Many of the people that 

lived in these areas that were affected are in one of the poorest zip 

codes in our entire State. These families worked hard every day, 

some working two and three jobs simply to be able to pay their 

mortgage, pay their taxes and to put food on their family’s tables. 

Affected by a flood and a devastation that these folks have experienced, it is impossible for them to be able to rebuild their lives. 

Hundreds of families in our community are faced with a decision 

of whether to file bankruptcy, have their homes foreclosed upon, 

those types of actions stay with these families for a decade, if they 

have to make that decision, if they’re unable to rebuild their 

homes. 

You’ve heard stories from people that had to reduce or chose to 

reduce their flood insurance and you may be thinking to yourselves, well, why would you do that? Well, many of the reasons 

that these folks did that is because flood insurance is expensive, oftentimes two times what homeowners insurance costs. They made 

that decision not because they didn’t want to pay it. They made 

that decision because it was a decision they financially had to 

make, that they were forced to reduce their insurance so that they 

could afford to put the food on the family’s table. 

So we only ask that you review the additional information that 

the city has given. We understand that if you did not have all the 

information to make your original decision, that you may have 

made a fair decision. But now that you have the information that 

the city has presented to you and IEMA and Congressman Manzullo and our two Senators from this State, we ask that you look 

at that hard and make a decision based on that evidence. Thank 

you for your time. 

25

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. For the rest of the hearing 

we’re going to have the testimony of General D’Araujo and then 

we’re going to have the open mic, so those of you who have been 

victims of this flood, I would encourage you to give your stories and 

I know it may be difficult for you to do so, but this is the best way 

that we can document the extent of the nature of the loss. 

General D’Araujo. 

STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL JOHN R. D’ARAUJO, JR., RECOVERY DIVISION, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT 

AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Good evening, Chairman Manzullo. Thank you 

for inviting us. 

I am John R. D’Araujo, Jr. I am the Director of FEMA’s Recovery 

Division. I am really pleased and honored to appear before your 

Committee to summarize and discuss FEMA’s emergency response 

and the declaration process in the event of a natural or a manmade 

disaster. In particular, Governor Blagojevich’s, if I have that name 

pronounced correctly, September 11th request for a major disaster 

on behalf of the State of Illinois. 

Before I provide an overview of our efforts in relation to the City 

of Rockford and Winnebago County, I would like to talk briefly 

about FEMA’s role and authorities under the Robert T. Stafford 

Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act. 

When an event is of the magnitude or severity that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the local governments and federal assistance is necessary, this Stafford Act authorizes the President to provide emergency assistance to States and 

local governments. I would like to stress that FEMA assistance was 

designed by Congress to be supplemental in nature. 

A Governor may determine, after consulting with local government officials, that response or recovery may be beyond the combined resources of both the State and local government, and that 

federal assistance may be needed. As you heard earlier from the 

gentleman from the State to assist the Governor in determining if 

a request for assistance should be made, a preliminary damage assessment may be conducted at the request of the State. These assessment teams, as you heard, are comprised of both FEMA, the 

State’s Emergency Management Agency, county and local officials, 

and the U.S. Small Business Administration. 

I think it is important to note that while FEMA may collect information about all types of damage, only the damage that would 

be eligible for FEMA assistance is considered in the evaluation 

process. 

As you heard on September 8th and 9th, and again on October 

5th and 6th, FEMA conducted preliminary damage assessments in 

conjunction with the State of Illinois and the City of Rockford. We 

at FEMA do not believe that there’s any dispute about the relevant 

damage, what the relevant damage numbers are for this disaster. 

The remaining question is what do these numbers mean? And I believe that’s why you asked us here today. I do, however, need to 

point out that the State as you heard has recently submitted an 

26

appeal and it would be premature for us to comment on that appeal at this time. 

At to the conclusion of these joint damage assessments, the 

Small Business Administration determined that the damage was 

sufficient, both between both homes and businesses to warrant a 

Small Business Association declaration. This kind of a declaration 

makes low cost loans available to home owners and businesses to 

assist in recovery from a disaster event. 

However, it is my understanding that the SBA cannot act because there has not been a formal request from the State— 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s not correct. I am the Chairman of 

the Small Business Committee. I talked to Herb Mitchell who is 

the person at the SBA in charge of the disaster recovery. They are 

set to come out here. The reason they have not opened up the office 

yet is because they’re waiting for the decision on FEMA, so you 

don’t have two competing agencies. But they are set and ready to 

go. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Right. We understand that they determined that 

there is sufficient— 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s correct. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. —for an SBA declaration. 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s right. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. 

The Governor’s Initial Request for a disaster assistance was denied on October 20, 2006. The determination to deny federal assistance was made in consideration of the results of the damage assessments conducted and reflected the President’s assessment that 

the scope of damage was within the combined response and recovery capabilities of State, local, and volunteer agencies, such as the 

Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and others as was discussed earlier. 

The Stafford Act restricts the use of an arithmetical formula or 

a sliding scale based on income or population as the basis for determining the need for federal supplemental aid. As a result of that, 

FEMA assesses a number of factors to determine the severity, magnitude, and impact of a disaster event. The Mayor alluded to some 

of these, but these factors include amount and type of damage, dispersion or concentration of that damage, the level of the insurance 

coverage in place, assistance available from other available sources, 

and again this is State, local, and voluntary agencies. The frequency of disaster events over a recent time period and the scope 

and magnitude of unmet needs of those affected by the event. 

The very nature of disasters through unique circumstances, the 

unexpected timing and varied impacts, precludes a complete listing 

of all the factors considered when evaluating disaster declaration 

requests, because they are bound to be different for each event. No 

single factor of those that I just mentioned are considered in isolation when developing a recommendation for the President. 

On October 24, the State of Illinois formally indicated their intent to appeal the denial of this disaster request. The State’s supporting information was received by our regional office last week. 

And since the time of the event, FEMA’s Region V Office and 

FEMA Headquarters have been in frequent contact with representVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00030 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
27

atives from Rockford, the State of Illinois, and congressional staff 

to discuss the declaration process as well as our programs. 

FEMA will review all the information it has received from the 

State and give it every consideration. We recognize in FEMA that 

all disasters, no matter how large or how small, can be devastating 

to the people in the communities affected by them. We sympathize 

with the home owners’ efforts to repair their homes, rebuild their 

houses, replace furnishings and personal effects, and recover from 

the flood event. Let me assure you that FEMA employees are compassionate people, dedicated to public service, and they understand 

the importance of providing relief to disaster victims. That’s what 

we do. While we do realize that there are those in need, FEMA 

must operate within the authorities which govern our programs, as 

well as recognize the state-federal relationship and partnership 

that exists. 

On a housekeeping note, Mr. Chairman, on page 5 of our written 

testimony, the last line should have read ‘‘there were no serious injuries or death as a result of the event.’’ And with your permission 

will submit corrected testimony to the Committee. 

I want to thank you for the opportunity to provide you the insight into FEMA’s declaration process, and our ongoing outreach 

and work with the State of Illinois following this event. We would 

be pleased to answer as many of your questions as we can. 

[Major General D’Araujo’s testimony may be found in the appendix along with Mr. Edward Buikema’s testimony.] 

Mr. MORRISSEY. Yes, I appreciate the—I guess we’ll do open mic 

after. I’ve got a few questions and I don’t want to take up too much 

of the citizens’ times for open mic. 

Chairman MANZULLO. How many here have a desire to speak at 

the open mic, do you want to raise your hands? I see one, two, 

three, four, five six—okay. 

Let’s go to the open mic first, all right? If you folks want to line 

up over here behind the podium. Rich, could you help them? If you 

could each limit your testimony to approximately two minutes and 

it’s important that the—Pat Curran, where are you? Alderman 

Curran. 

Pat, why don’t you come up here and lead off and then—okay. 

Come on, Pat, let’s move. You’re just lolly-gagging down the aisle 

there. 

(Laughter.) 

Try to limit the statements to two or three minutes. Give your 

name and then spell the last. 

Mr. CURRAN. Thank you. I’m Pat Curran, that’s spelled C-U-RR-A-N. I’m the Second Ward Alderman here in the City of Rockford. And my neighborhood, my ward, was part of that devastation 

and as I sat here listening to these comments tonight, I was reminded it wasn’t so long ago that on television I got to watch what 

flood waters could do in New Orleans, for instance, and what the 

hurricane did and when you watch that, you think that’s a terrible 

thing. And then suddenly it hit us and the flood waters took on a 

whole new meaning. 

But the interesting thing that happened here in Rockford is that 

as devastating as it was, when the victims of that flood reached out 

for help, the City of Rockford responded and the citizens of RockVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
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ford responded. The victims didn’t shoot at anybody. And the City 

of Rockford did all that we could and nobody blamed FEMA or the 

Federal Government for the storm. And nobody blamed them because we didn’t have enough boats quick enough to get the people 

out of there. 

So we did everything that we could and now after the flood waters have receded and the mess is cleaned up, we’ve got to rebuild. 

We don’t have the resources. My comment is very simple. Just help 

us help ourselves. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Pat. 

Mr. KERN. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Rich, do you want—okay. And everybody 

that’s in line here is somebody who has suffered a loss, is that correct? That’s what we want. Go ahead, state your name and spell 

the last for the record, please. Go ahead. 

Mr. WRIGHT. Hi, my name is Rex Wright, W-R-I-G-H-T. There 

wasn’t much said about businesses. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to give us your address, 

please? 

Mr. WRIGHT. I’m sorry? 

Chairman MANZULLO. Your address. 

Mr. WRIGHT. My former address was 2314 Charles Street. I had 

to move my business. I had been there for 20—a little over 20 

years and there’s approximately a one mile stretch of Charles 

Street where businesses on both sides of the street were damaged. 

I don’t know if the amounts of loss are included in that or not. 

Mayor Morrissey was mentioning mostly about individual homes. 

But after over 20 years, I had to move my business. That is expensive, plus people get used to you being in a certain spot for years 

and years. But the main thing I wanted was just to let you know 

not only were individual homes, there were businesses, pharmacies, grocery stores, restaurants, offices damaged also. That’s all 

I have. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. WHITSON. My name is Giles Arthur Whitson, Jr. 

Chairman MANZULLO. You have to spell the last name for the 

record. 

Mr. WHITSON. Whitson, W-H-I-T-S-O-N. Junior. There’s four of 

us. Before the flood, I had the opportunity to go through a flood in 

southern Illinois in Murfreesboro. My father lived in Gorham. I 

took him out of the area. He went back to the area. I’m not a person who hasn’t had no experience with the flood system. I know 

what FEMA does. I know from experience. The thing is, the most 

important thing is that the City did their best of trying to help us 

out of what’s going on. 

I stood up to my rear and I’m a very tall man, as you can see, 

and I stood in the rear of my front yard in water. Our basement, 

we had four foot of water come through in one whack. The door fell 

apart and my son and I almost got drowned. That is nothing you 

can help us with. What you can help us with is try to get the funds 

that are able to help us help ourselves. And the most important 

thing is that everybody has pulled together that I know about, the 

29

City, the Police Department, the Fire Department and by the way, 

I am an armed security officer, at that time, two companies. I know 

what it’s like to be in the government. I know what it’s like to go 

and have people need your help. 

So please, help us. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Mr. Whitson, the extent of the damage, 

dollar amount, your house? Do you have any idea? 

Mr. WHITSON. We lived in our house for two months. We did not 

go out. As far as I know, we’re the only ones that lived in the house 

and stayed there. The house still has no electricity, has no heat, 

has no water now because we had it turned off and there’s not been 

a determined amount yet because the insurance companies has refused to come to see us. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you have flood insurance? 

Mr. WHITSON. The lady we was buying the house home had it, 

yes. We had a place called, a document called ‘‘rent to own’’ and 

I, ourselves, did not lose the house. The lady that was with us that 

we was going through, she lost the house. We lost all of our stuff 

and we have relocated. We will not live back in that house. 

Chairman MANZULLO. The name of the owner of the property? 

Mr. WHITSON. Celena is her first name. Josenberg. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to spell that for us? 

Ms. WHITSON. She lives in Arkansas and she has not contacted 

us or come back to see what it looks like. 

Chairman MANZULLO. So you’re buying the house from her on 

contract? 

Mr. WHITSON. We was buying the house. 

Ms. WHITSON. We were going to. 

Mr. WHITSON. We’ve dropped it. 

Ms. WHITSON. We’re renting. We were in the renting process. 

Mr. WHITSON. So the thing is, most important thing is for us and 

for everybody else in this building— 

Chairman MANZULLO. We need your address. 

Mr. WHITSON. The address is 622— 

Ms. WHITSON. Six twenty-seven. 

Mr. WHITSON. Excuse me, 627 16th Street. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And you were in the process of buying it 

on contract? 

Ms. WHITSON. Two year lease of renting with option to buy. 

Chairman MANZULLO. But did you exercise your option? 

Mr. WHITSON. No, we got out of it. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. 

Mr. WHITSON. We can’t go and live there no more. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, I understand. Thank you for your 

testimony. 

Mr. WHITSON. Thank you very much for your time. 

(Applause.) 

Ms. WHITSON. My name is Marjorie Whitson and I want to thank 

the City— 

Chairman MANZULLO. You’ve got to spell your last name. 

Ms. WHITSON. —human services, Amy and Laurie, for helping us 

give the money, first month’s rent for the McLintock family that 

helped us move into a home that they had, that they were trying 

to sell. So we are renting there and possibly buying from them 

30

later. But I wanted to thank the City for all the help, the Fire Department, everybody that helped out. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. I appreciate—we have a lot of witnesses. 

Ms. WHITSON. I know. I almost lost my son and husband that 

night because they were in the basement. My husband was turning 

off the gas and lights and my son got hit by the basement doorknob. I’ve got the pictures to prove it, if FEMA wants to look at 

it. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Chris, do you want to take those pictures 

and make them part of the record? 

Ms. WHITSON. These are mine. I want FEMA to see it from me. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, we can do that. Thank you. Next 

witness? 

(Applause.) 

Ms. ABERNATHY. My name is Joanie Abernathy, A-B-E-R-N-A-TH-Y. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Your first name is? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. Joanie. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Joanie, okay, go ahead, please. 

Ms. ABERNATHY. I live on the corner of 10th Avenue and 15th 

Street. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And your address? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. It’s 1103 15th Street. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, go ahead. 

Ms. ABERNATHY. I had to call the Human Services Department 

twice to make sure that they had us on record as having had a loss. 

I called the first time like right after it was advertised on the TV 

to call and let them know. Then I called a week later and they still 

didn’t have us in the system. So then I went down in person, like 

a couple of weeks ago to make sure that we were listed as having 

had flood damage and I had brought some pictures to show them 

so that they knew that I was telling the truth. 

When all the information on TV about IEMA and FEMA being 

in town, I never saw anybody on our street. I didn’t know whether 

or not we were going to be included as being part of the flood damage or not— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Could you tell us the extent of your damage? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. We had probably about $15,000 worth of damage, not a lot. We didn’t have any structure damage. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Any insurance for that? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. We did have flood insurance, but they did not 

cover everything— 

Chairman MANZULLO. How much did they pay? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. They paid $9,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Structural? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. And that was because of depreciation, the furnace supposedly was only worth like $1800, hot water heater was 

about $250. 

Chairman MANZULLO. So the flood insurance was not paying you 

actual replacement value? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. It didn’t pay actual replacement cost. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. 

31

Ms. ABERNATHY. But my biggest concern was the fact that it did 

occur when we went to purchase our home which we actually had 

just moved into in 2003. We did not know at the time that it was 

on a flood plain until we went to get the mortgage and then they 

said oh, you have to flood insurance. So that’s an extra $550 a year 

on top of our already homeowner’s insurance which didn’t— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Joanie, let me cut you off there because I 

want to get the rest of the witnesses— 

Ms. ABERNATHY. No problem. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you so much. Do you have pictures 

there? 

Ms. ABERNATHY. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. Chris, do you want to— 

Ms. ABERNATHY. Of course, they’re in black and white. 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s all right. Thank you, Joanie. 

Ms. ABERNATHY. Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Our next witness, please. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. FENICLE. My name is John Fenicle and I’m representing my 

parents that are 85 years old and can’t get here. They lived at 2113 

Wellworth Avenue, just outside the county on the other side of 

Elkland. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to spell your last name? 

Mr. FENICLE. My last name is spelled F-E-N-I-C-L-E. Again, my 

father started working at the age of 12 years old, went in the service at 16, represented our country for four years overseas, came out 

at 20 years old and worked his whole life until he was 67 years 

old, paying federal taxes. And I feel that you know, he deserves 

something. He had a small house paid for, lived there 59 years, no 

basement. The flood came in, knocked my, literally, knocked my 

mom down and she has had problems with her shoulder ever since. 

They lost everything. 

Right now if you go to their house, they have no floors in the 

house, no walls inside the house. They’ve been living with me since 

this disaster. It puts a little bit of a strain on both relationships, 

my relationship with my parents, my wife, my child and they have 

no place to go. They’re on a fixed income. Who’s going to give them 

a loan at 85 years old to fix up a house? I went in there just based 

upon if I did the work myself, to fix the floors, put new floors, new 

drywall, I estimate the value of about $35,000 with me doing the 

labor and on my free time. I would like to get them back in the 

house. They do not have the money to go back in there and pay 

for the lumber. I don’t have the money to do it. But I’ve been helping them out, giving them a place to stay since then. Nobody has 

offered anything except for the Red Cross, and I want to thank 

them. They gave my parents $500. The insurance company gave 

them zilch. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

Ms. MURPHY. Good evening, sirs. Thank you for listening to all 

our appeals. My name is Lorraine Murphy and my husband sitting 

over there is Michael. We’ve lived in our home for over 30 years 

and we were hit by the grace of God we did not lose our foundation 

32

as the many homes around on our street. We live one block away 

from Keith Creek. 

So the boats that they talk about came up and down our street 

and we did witness many of our neighbors that were strongly affected by the flood, many of them were Hispanic. They cannot 

speak English and some of them have reached out for help, but 

they are at a loss. 

I want to also thank the County Board Member John Eckburn. 

He’s done a lot for our community and I wanted to publicly thank 

him for the services that he has provided. He helped us with volunteer assistance to help the people in our neighborhood. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Lorraine, the extent of your damage, the 

amount? 

Ms. MURPHY. Sir, I’d say it’s about $25,000. We do not have flood 

insurance, but we do carry homeowner’s insurance. We have had 

assistance from Human Services and I’d like to thank also Jennifer 

Jaeger who has helped us with funds for a furnace and I have been 

working on that since after the flood. But I do appeal to you, sirs, 

on my behalf and on behalf of the people that are here for funding 

for us. 

Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Lorraine, how much of that is structural 

damage, the $25,000? 

Ms. MURPHY. Sir, I’d say about maybe $10,000 would be structural, yes, sir. 

Chairman MANZULLO. All right. 

Ms. MURPHY. Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And we need your address. 

Ms. MURPHY. 1608 6th Avenue, Flood Water City. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. 

Ms. MURPHY. Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Lorraine. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Hang on a second. Go ahead, please. 

Ms. KREBSBACH. My name is Sandy Krebsbach. It’s K-R-E-B-SB-A-C-H. I live at 817 13th Street, about half a block from Keith 

Creek. So there was about eight feet of water in our street and 

there—we live rather up on a hill and the water was like four feet 

up on the house. The back wall caved in. My husband got out with 

my son who came over to rescue him and the cat, but when they 

got out, I’ve seen one of the pictures of the firemen wading in water 

up to here and that’s about how deep it was on them. The estimated damage to our home is $70,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. $70,000 in damage? 

Ms. KREBSBACH. We’re not living there. We’re living with our son 

right now. We’ve been there since September 4th. I wasn’t home—

I was trying to get home, but he was the only one there. And the 

process of getting things taken care of has been very slow with the 

insurance company. We did have flood insurance, but we’ve gotten 

$15,000 and that doesn’t even start to— 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s all that they offered or that’s all 

you have? 

Ms. KREBSBACH. No, that’s all we’ve been able to get so far. 

We’ve had quite a run around between the mortgage company’s 

33

name being on the check trying to get more money from the insurance company and it’s been a real hassle. And I told them last time 

I talked to them, I said you know, losing your home like this is one 

thing, trying to get it fixed is another thing because it’s such a hassle trying to get the money from the National Flood Insurance 

Company through who we have it. 

We had the flood insurance, but it just isn’t coming together very 

well at all. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, thank you, Lorraine. 

Ms. KREBSBACH. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Ms. JENKINS. Hi, everybody. My name is Julie Jenkins. J-E-NK-I-N-S. And I live at 1644 8th Avenue. I purchased the home in 

May of 2004 and found out the day before closing that it required 

flood insurance. I pushed my closing back and because of that I 

took out a $5,000 deductible in order to purchase the home at such 

a late stage of the game. 

We weren’t as severely affected as many. We were very, very fortunate. My house is the very last house on the east side. The house 

on the east side of me did not get any water. My neighbors on the 

west side had their basement filled to the rafters with water. My 

home, because it was remodeled and I have brand new windows in 

the basement, my basement windows held although the water was 

above them. We had water seeping through the walls and water 

seeping through the back stairway because it was over the 

doorwell. 

Our damage is estimated between, I’ve had a few different contractors come in and to get it to where it was because it was completely remodeled, it was our master bedroom, we no longer can occupy that space. Between $7,000 and $12,000 were estimates that 

I received. Our adjuster put our damage at $2,998.33, something 

ridiculous like that. And because of the $5,000 deductible, we won’t 

receive anything from flood insurance. 

Our mortgage company has let us know, I can’t take out a home 

equity loan because of the damage to my basement. It no longer is 

worth what it was. And that’s the main part of my question is 

what’s left when the water recedes? The mold problem is an extremely dangerous problem that a lot of the residents are facing 

and it’s a health hazard and it’s not going to go away on its own. 

What happens to my resell value of my home? Who’s going to want 

to purchase it? It may never happen. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I am going to have to cut you off, so we 

can get the rest of the witnesses up. We have all the testimony 

that we needed in that. 

Ms. JENKINS. I think 500 percent discrepancy in—I would be 

fired if my estimate was that off. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. PACE. Good evening. My name is Dan Pace, P-A-C-E. I am 

Julie’s next door neighbor. I did have approximately six and a half 

feet of water in my basement. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Your address? 

34

Mr. PACE. 1648 8th Avenue. We had an estimate for the electric 

for almost $5,000 to redo my electric and a little less than that for 

my heating and air conditioning that was all submerged. 

We actually quit getting estimates after that because we had no 

idea how we were going to pay for this. I’ve been fortunate enough 

to have some—a lot of friends and family members help me. We 

have a lot of work yet to do and because of the rain that we’ve had 

today and apparently the soil is eroded from my yard because I 

now have water in my basement this evening before I left, I noticed 

water in my basement again. 

The soil is about six inches lower than what it normally was 

after the flood. During the flood, when the water was receding it 

was bubbling in my yard, like something I’ve never seen before, 

which makes me wonder what happened under there. 

Chairman MANZULLO. What is the estimate of the amount it 

would take to repair your facility? 

Mr. PACE. I have no idea because with the furnace and the electric was close to $10,000, but I had three bedrooms downstairs, 

washer/dryer. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you have any flood insurance? 

Mr. PACE. No. So I estimated, we’ve put 23 rolls of insulation up, 

probably about 65 sheets of drywall will need to be brought in, over 

140 2 by 4s we brought in and put up. I have no idea what this 

would cost to finish the basement. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, appreciate your testimony. Thank 

you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. KIRSCHBAUM. Good evening. Thank you, Congressman, Mr. 

Mayor. My name is Tom Kirschbaum, K-I-R-S-C-H-B-A-U-M. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Tom, could you speak more directly into 

the mic? 

Mr. KIRSCHBAUM. I most certainly will, Congressman. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

Mr. KIRSCHBAUM. Wife and I and the kids, we moved into our 

McArthur Avenue, I’m sorry, McArthur Drive house back in— 

Chairman MANZULLO. What’s the address there? 

Mr. KIRSCHBAUM. 1727 McArthur, in the Rolling Green area 

right across from Rolling Green School in 2000. We weren’t required to have flood insurance because it’s not a flood plain. Three 

times since we’ve moved in, water has backed up the sewer and 

has come into our yard. Well, in September it came up to our yard, 

it came up to our front doorstep, busted out a basement window 

and we ended up with eight feet of water in our basement. 

We just need the storm sewer in the front fixed as it’s been 

promised. It’s on the books for the City, but again, they had stated 

there’s no funds available, but the plans are there. So that’s where 

I think the Federal Government needs to help us out a lot in the 

City. 

Chairman MANZULLO. The extent of your damage? 

Mr. KIRSCHBAUM. Our damage, structural, about $20,000 and all 

of that has been repaired except for one little item, but now we 

have $20,000 on our credit cards. Anywhere from 12 to 23 percent 

interest. And that’s what’s killing us right now, but we’re one of 

the lucky ones. We were able to clean what we can, got it back, 

35

being out of the house for five months, or I’m sorry, five weeks with 

the assistance of the City. But it’s hard. Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. MOORE. Hello, my name is Ted Moore, M-O-O-R-E. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Your address, Ted? 

Mr. MOORE. Ted. 

Chairman MANZULLO. No, your address. 

Mr. MOORE. Pardon? 

Chairman MANZULLO. Address. 

Mr. MOORE. 1653 6th Avenue. I was told by the gentleman that 

services my furnace that he could not do any repair work because 

he would be in trouble with the City of Rockford, that my furnace 

needed to be replaced and also I know that the repair costs to 

many of the—to repair many of the homes that we’re dealing with 

here in this area is costing more than the market value of our 

homes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. What is the estimate to repair your house? 

Mr. MOORE. $1500. 

Chairman MANZULLO. $1500? 

Mr. MOORE. To replace the furnace. 

Chairman MANZULLO. The furnace. What other damage do you 

have? 

Mr. MOORE. That’s about it. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. So you got by relatively lucky compared to some of the folks here. 

Mr. MOORE. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. RODRIGUEZ. Hello, my name is Tomas Rodriguez, R-O-D-RI-G-U-E-Z. We live at 901 13th Street. 

On June—end of June of this past year, my wife and I were trying to live the American dream by buying our first home. Unfortunately, we made one payment to our mortgage towards our home 

and we got flooded out on September 4th. We are here to ask you 

for help. We have already dropped $3500 into our home and the 

damage that we have estimated as anywhere from $30,000 to 

$40,000. We have stopped working on our home now because we 

have run out of funds. So we are here to ask you not to allow my 

wife and I and all the other families that are affected from the 

flood of September 4th lose their American dream. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

Ms. BRADFORD. Good evening. My name is Philicia Bradford and 

I reside at 828 14th Street and 8th Avenue. First of all, I’d like to 

thank God for no one losing their lives in this horrible tragedy, because it was horrible watching it. And I thank God that—for the 

Red Cross and the Salvation Army being there for us on a daily 

basis every day, faithfully. God bless them all and the City of Rockford. 

July 5, ’03 I resided at 427 Albert Avenue, the storm after the 

4th. I was without power for 18 days and let me see, August 13th 

of that same year, a month later, I lost my home to a tragic fire. 

I lost everything, my entire home, my two-story, three bedroom 

36

home. I moved over here on 14th Street November of ’03. I’ve been 

here ever since. Like I said, Red Cross has been there for me for 

those tragedies, but I’ve never had assistance like—you never recover you know the hurt and pain and the anguish and the suffering and the lack of support that you needed that, if you have to 

ask somebody then, I felt like I didn’t need help. I mean I didn’t 

need, I wasn’t worthy. So I didn’t seek like I needed. 

Okay, and I come over here and I’m here for three years. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Could you tell us the extent of your damage? 

Ms. BRADFORD. I have 11-year-old twin girls, one is going 

through counseling. The other is a straight A student. They attend 

Swinn Middle School. She lost her computer, all that stuff, everything that just is—and then like I said Salvation Army and the 

Red Cross and the City, they were there. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Ma’am, could you tell us—did water come 

in your basement? 

Ms. BRADFORD. Oh, we lost everything in our basement. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And you own this home? 

Ms. BRADFORD. And our garage. I’m a renter and by the grace 

of God, I have a good landlord. His name is Dan Morrissey. When 

I moved in, he told me there is no relationship, but anyway, he was 

there the very next day on the spot. He’s still there working right 

now today. I mean and just seeing all this, all the debris still coming out of people’s homes and all the hurt and pain and suffering 

that we’ve all gone through, God bless us all. 

My neighborhood looks like a ghost town. There’s no children. 

There’s no people. It’s sad and it hurts me and God, please put it 

in your heart and within you to help us that lost what we no longer 

have, that we can’t repair or replace and thank you. That’s all I 

have to say. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. Appreciate it. 

(Applause.) 

Ms. BRANCH. My name is Marsha Branch. I live at Sexton Drive, 

1708. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Will you spell your last name for the 

record, please? 

Ms. BRANCH. B-R-A-N-C-H. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Go ahead. 

Ms. BRANCH. I don’t know why but nobody mentioned the problems that we had with the hail, the day of the storm. There was 

hail also and we had about two feet of hail in the yard for two days 

and that damaged the roof, so the neighborhood, they needed new 

roofs. Some insurance are not paying for the roof. 

My basement had four feet of water in it. I came to this country 

19 years ago because I believe in the American dream and I cannot 

believe that I’m living this nightmare here because I believe in 

America and I came here for better things. 

I have been suffering now with this, my house had sewage in it 

and after I clean myself because I couldn’t afford anybody to clean, 

and now I have asthma and I have mildew, black mildew in my 

basement. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Could you tell us how much damage to 

your basement in terms of dollars? 

37

Ms. BRANCH. Well, I need a new washer, new dryer, water heater, everything, furnace, and my basement was finished with wood 

paneling. We had to pull the paneling out to look behind. It’s full 

of mildew. My house smells. The odor came from behind. I had 

family room in the back of the house. It was flooded. I had to throw 

furniture out, the carpet and everything. 

I asked for help, but by help I called the County and the County 

had the firemen. I met the Mayor the last time in a meeting in a 

church. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Did you have insurance? 

Ms. BRANCH. I’m asking for help with my health because I 

haven’t— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Listen to my questions, okay? I need—how 

much damage to the house in dollars. 

Ms. BRANCH. $20,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. $20,000? 

Ms. BRANCH. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Did you have any insurance? 

Ms. BRANCH. No, I never knew I needed— 

Chairman MANZULLO. You have no flood insurance? 

Ms. BRANCH. No. Nobody ever told me that. I do have cleaning, 

I worked for 19 years cleaning houses here. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I need your address and then I want to get 

on with the rest of the witnesses? 

Ms. BRANCH. 1708 Sexton. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Sexton. 

Ms. BRANCH. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you very much. Is that in Rolling 

Green? Keith Creek, okay. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. VANDERGRIFT. My name is Adrian Vandergrift. It’s kind of 

long, V-A-N-D-E-R-G-R-I-F-T. My wife and I own a small four-unit 

apartment building on the addresses 4418 Yale Drive. It’s located 

just southwest of the Harrison and Alpine intersection in Rockford. 

On September 4th, the basements in the building quickly flooded. 

One was filled with about seven feet of water and then the other 

one was filled with about six feet of water. Our repair costs were 

$12,000. That was clean up, four furnaces and four water heaters. 

That does not include the loss of personal property, the residents’ 

personal property. 

We did not have flood insurance. We do now, even though I 

found out we’re not in the flood plain and we’re apparently in an 

extremely low-risk area. We got flooded. So we’ve got it now and 

we did what we had to do to get the property cleaned up as quickly 

as possible to get the folks back in, but since we didn’t have flood 

insurance, the $12,000 came out of our personal finances and we’re 

a single-income family. Our property wasn’t condemned, but it still 

did cost $12,000. I know there’s a lot of folks who got hit a lot harder than we did, so any assistance would be greatly appreciated. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. SALES. My name is Tim Sales. S-A-L-E-S. Thanks, gentlemen, for coming out. I live at 913 13th Street. We were one of the 

people who had the basement wall collapse in. We did have flood 

38

insurance. Our insurance gave us a check for $19,000. That doesn’t 

even begin to cover half. They will not pay to replace the wall, 

what it would cost to bring it up to city codes. They’ll only replace 

it the way it was, as it was built in 1934. We did not know that 

the house did not have footings under the wall and that’s part of 

the code requirement. And so for us, we are in the process of filing 

bankruptcy. We had flood insurance. We did everything we thought 

we could do. We went to the bank to ask for a loan because we had 

been in the house two years, we don’t have equity. We don’t have 

cars as collateral because of the flood. And our mortgage company 

was not willing to give a deference or anything like that to help. 

So we are in the process of losing our first house. 

Obviously, no one planned for the flood and no one could have 

stopped it, but we’re just kind of at our wits’ end. We can’t get 

more help from the insurance company. They won’t help and that’s 

what I would say the total damage is over $45,000 and they gave 

us a check for $19,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Did they say why they wouldn’t pay you more than $19,000? 

Mr. SALES. Part of it was replacing the wall, so we have to put 

in footings underneath the basement wall that collapsed. There 

weren’t any footings before, but that’s part of the code. It was 

unreinforced cinderblock. They’ll pay to replace that, but that’s not 

up to code. And then they took off everything you can think of in 

terms of depreciation. They took off depreciation of the paint on our 

garage, depreciation of wood on the garage. Anything you can think 

of, they took off for depreciation. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to tell us the name of your 

insurance? 

Mr. SALES. It’s Hartford. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. Thank you. 

Mr. SALES. Thanks. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Why don’t you pull the mic down there. 

Thank you. 

Ms. ARNOLD. Akeeno Arnold. 811 15th Street. My family and I—

I spoke before, we were affected by the flood. We’d like to extend 

our thanks to the Human Services Department and the Red Cross. 

Thank you, a lot—Cindy, for really helping us out. 

Due to the flood, we apparently lost a lot and we just kind of 

want to know, with the reconsideration of FEMA helping out, how 

long will it take to make another decision and when will repairs 

begin and how much would people receive if there was something 

to happen? 

Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

Ms. SERRANO. Good evening, my name is Terry Serrano, S-E-RR-A-N-O. I live at 2626 Sculke Drive and the back yard is on Harrison Avenue that is being fixed. Our front yard wasn’t flooded, but 

the back yard was. It was the Mississippi. And we have the mud 

flats in the basement. And if the toilet hadn’t kept flushing, it 

would have been deeper. But God bless the toilet, it kept flowing 

open. 

39

I would estimate at this time, sir, that it’s going to be close to $15,000. My mother is 86 years old and we are the original owners 

of the home. I live with my mother because Mayo Clinic said she 

needed 24 hour care. She had an aneurysm about 14 years ago. I 

guess they didn’t expect her to last that long, but they didn’t know 

how strong my mother is. So we are at home with my mother taking care of her and trying to help— 

Chairman MANZULLO. This is your mother’s home that suffered 

the damage? 

Ms. SERRANO. Yes, but she did also finally put the home in my 

name, but we were unaware that there was not flood insurance because we were never told we were on a flood plain when the property was first purchased. 

Chairman MANZULLO. The extent of your damage? 

Ms. SERRANO. Pardon? 

Chairman MANZULLO. The amount it will take to fix your damage? 

Ms. SERRANO. About $15,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. About $15,000? 

Ms. SERRANO. So far that’s what we’ve been putting out ourselves to fix. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. 

Ms. SERRANO. We would have gotten the insurance, if we had 

known. Homeowners insurance won’t pay anything because they 

say it’s an act of God. I’m sorry, we’re not bad people here in Rockford for God to punish us and I don’t think the insurance company 

should punish us either. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you very much. 

Ms. SERRANO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. GIARDINA. Hello, Nick Giardina. G-I-A-R-D-I-N-A. I’m next 

door neighbor to Bev Hanson. I watched her garage float away to 

Churchill Park Creek, right next door. We had $25,000 damage. It’s 

all disaster loans. I know the place I’m working at is closing. 

Chairman MANZULLO. This is to your home? 

Mr. GIARDINA. Yes, it was my parents house. I took over it. It 

was where I was raised. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, and the cost of repairs is $25,000? 

Mr. GIARDINA. $25,000 all together. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Any insurance? 

Mr. GIARDINA. Yes, they paid like $900 for roof damage from 

hail, Liberty Mutual. 

Chairman MANZULLO. But you didn’t have flood insurance? 

Mr. GIARDINA. No. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. 

Mr. GIARDINA. I know they already announced their jobs are 

leaving to Singapore April 24th, so I got like $25,000 new debt and 

like six, seven months of work. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Ms. BETANCOURT. Hello, my name is Maria Betancourt. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Bruce, could you get that mic, a very softspoken lady. Go ahead. Do you want to start all over again? 

Ms. BETANCOURT. Maria, M-A-R-I-A. B-E-T-A-N-C-O-U-R-T. 

40

Chairman MANZULLO. Chris, why don’t you take that mic off that 

stand there. There you are. Go ahead. 

The INTERPRETER. Her name is Maria Betancourt, it’s B-E-T-AN-C-O-U-R-T. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, go ahead and your address? 

The INTERPRETER. Her address is 815 15th Street.I was one of 

the citizens or residents that was damaged. My basement was 

flooded with water. I lost everything that was inside. Presently, 

what is working is only the water heater. We were able to repair 

that because it was a necessity. Right now we are in need of heat. 

Our heat is not working. When we have visiting from our grandchildren, they have to leave early because of the cold. Presently, I 

am the only one working. My husband is not able to work as he 

has a disability. The cost to repair the heating system is very expensive and it’s something that I am not able to do at the present 

time. 

I’m just wondering if it is possible for the economics of repairs 

to be given. It will be very thoughtful and thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Could you give us an estimate of the cost 

to fix? 

The INTERPRETER. Between $8,000 to $9,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. About $9,000. Did you have any insurance, 

any flood insurance? 

Ms. BETANCOURT. No. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Ms. TORRES. Hi, my name is Sylvia Torres. I’m at 1305 Charlotte 

Drive. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Will you spell your last name, Sylvia? 

Ms. TORRES. T-O-R-R-E-S. I came from Chicago going on five 

years and within the five years I worked really hard to get where 

I’m at. I purchased my first home and I was only there for five 

weeks when we got flooded. My house and my car got flooded and 

I still had to work. I had to go to work with water in my family 

room downstairs. All my furniture and belongings were downstairs. 

All together, it’s about $25,000 to $30,000 in loss. 

Chairman MANZULLO. $25,000 to $30,000? 

Ms. TORRES. Yes, my insurance, they denied me over the phone. 

Chairman MANZULLO. No flood insurance? 

Ms. TORRES. No flood insurance. I’m not in a flood zone area. 

Hail and wind and still no help, but I’m just here to ask you to reconsider and not look at us as stories, as testimonies, but look at 

us as victims, as hard working people. We’ve come a long way to 

become home owners. We don’t have the salaries some of you do. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Sylvia, are you living in your home now? 

Ms. TORRES. I am living in my home. I didn’t lose it like some 

of the other victims. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Is your furnace working? 

Ms. TORRES. Now it is. Still, I still have to have somebody come 

out because now that the cold weather has started, the pilots turn 

on and off, but I need heat. I have three children. 

Chairman MANZULLO. So you have no heat? 

Ms. TORRES. I keep it on. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I see, it’s on all the time. 

41

Ms. TORRES. I turn it on, whether the pilot is shutting on and 

off. I still keep it on. We need to live. We need heat. 

Chairman MANZULLO. So the furnace needs to be repaired. Do 

you have any estimate, or that’s part of the $25,000 to $30,000? 

Ms. TORRES. Right. Okay. I had water come in from the back of 

my yard with everybody’s water coming in to my basement, family 

room, but just take a look at us. We’re all hard workers. Like I say, 

we don’t have the salary everybody or you gentlemen have. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. Thank you very much. 

Ms. TORRES. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Ms. MADRIGAL. My name is Erica Madrigal and I don’t speak 

English too much, but I lose my basement too and I lose a lot of 

things. So I think we need a lot of money to fix. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Could you give us your address? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. 824 14th Street. 

Chairman MANZULLO. You had water in your basement? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. How much water? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. Full basement. 

Chairman MANZULLO. It went all the way to— 

Ms. MADRIGAL. Almost to first floor. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Almost to the first floor? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And how much damage in dollars? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. About $20,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. About $20,000? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you have any flood insurance? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. No. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And are you living in the home now? Do 

you live in the home now? 

Ms. MADRIGAL. Yes. I fixed the air conditioner and I fixed the 

heater, so I put up like $13,000. So we need more money to fix the 

basement. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. 

Ms. MADRIGAL. I want help, you know. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Ms. PIERCE. Thank you for hearing us. My name is Betsy Pierce, 

P-I-E-R-C-E. 1320 7th Avenue. I feel very lucky. I only had four 

inches of water in my basement. My next door neighbor got six 

feet. I have flood insurance. My losses are about $6500. $4,000 of 

that is for a swimming pool. Granted, it shouldn’t be covered, it’s 

in my backyard. Flood insurance doesn’t cover anything outside the 

house. It’s my son’s favorite play space. He’s special needs. I can’t 

afford to fix that. The carpeting that was in the basement, I’m not 

going to get anything for that. I took minimal flood insurance, 

$1,000 deductible. It took $1,035 to have somebody to come in and 

dry and pull the carpet out in order to put it back in, I have to 

eat that expense. 

I’m a single mother. I can’t do that. If you can’t help us and I 

understand that you have guidelines you have to follow, then 

42

maybe somebody needs to get these insurance companies to do 

what they’re paid for. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. PENZK. Hi, my name is Richard Penzk and I live at 2528 

Holmes Street. Actually, I don’t live there, my son-in-law lives 

there and he owns the building. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Is he the owner of the home? 

Mr. PENZK. Yes, he’s buying it under contract. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to spell your last name for 

the record? 

Mr. PENZK. The reason I am speaking for him is he does not 

speak too well English. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to spell your last name? 

Mr. PENZK. P-E-N-Z-K, P as in power. 

Chairman MANZULLO. So you’re speaking on your son-in-law’s behalf? 

Mr. PENZK. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And his name? 

Mr. PENZK. Jozef, J-O-Z-E-F, Stefanski, S-T-E-F-A-N-S-K-I. 

Chairman MANZULLO. And the address again? 

Mr. PENZK. 2528 Holmes Street. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Holmes Street, okay, go ahead. 

Mr. PENZK. We live right across from son’s plant. I own that 

building at first since 1980. And I never had any problems until 

they started to build Herson Road, fixing that. And the draining 

ditch has grating, the grating has only 12 by 12 inches holes and 

that gets clogged up by a small rain, just with leaves and little 

brushes. As the rain comes down, it just works its way up and then 

it just clogs the holes, drainage ditch. 

After you are flood, as a matter of fact, you have those pictures. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Did water go into your son-in-law’s basement? 

Mr. PENZK. Yes, that’s right. 

Chairman MANZULLO. How much water? 

Mr. PENZK. The water went up five and a half feet. Actually, almost six feet. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Six feet. 

Mr. PENZK. We lost six furnaces, seven hot water heaters, two of 

the furnaces were only four years old and two of the hot water 

heaters were only one year old. I worked as a maintenance man all 

my life long for a major corporation here in the Winnebago area 

and the same night he couldn’t get no one to come to the basement. 

I went—I used his big pump, pumped the basement. It took me six 

hours. Next morning, I lit all the furnaces, all hot water heaters 

and he pulled all the walls down. He got like 400 running feet because it’s a big building. It’s a six family. So it’s a 100 feet this way 

and 100 feet that way and all the different rooms to get drywall 

on both sides. So as the inspectors will know we have to pull down 

the drywall the very next day. We worked like six weeks with the 

whole family until 10, 11 o’clock, midnight. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Was there any insurance available? Did 

you have any flood insurance? 

Mr. PENZK. No. 

43

Chairman MANZULLO. What’s the extent of the damage? 

Mr. PENZK. At least $60,000. 

Chairman MANZULLO. This is on a six-family home? 

Mr. PENZK. Yes. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Did your son-in-law occupy one of the 

units? 

Mr. PENZK. Yes. Actually, I had all the heaters lit, and hot water 

heaters lit, but the inspector asked us to replace them, which we 

did. The only thing we did not replace is two down-draft heaters 

and that’s another issue. I have to take that up with them—I don’t 

want to get into details. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you very much. 

Mr. PENZK. But one thing I want to tell you, I learned one lesson. 

Do not piss off the inspectors. Don’t do that. I paid my price. 

(Laughter and applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. All right. Go ahead, please. 

Mr. NUNALLY. My name is Glen Nunally. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you want to spell it for the record? 

Mr. NUNALLY. N-U-N-A-L-L-Y. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. 

Mr. NUNALLY. I live at 626 16th Street. And have been there almost 48 years. I don’t have flood insurance because when we 

moved there that wasn’t considered flood area. So I figure I came 

out ahead regardless. Because I didn’t have to pay that $500 or 

$600 a month for flood insurance. I lost probably $12,000, $15,000, 

furnace is gone, hot water heater and all the clothes and everything we had down there. 

So I’m just thankful to you for asking for this help for all the 

people. I took care of that part myself. I worked hard in Rockford 

for 43 and a half years at one place and I had enough money to 

pay for it, but I never seen water come that fast in all the 48 years 

that will be next, just before Christmas, 48 years ago we moved 

there. I’ve seen it get up to the first step, but they always monitored. I went to Mayor, they’ve always monitored on 15th Avenue 

somebody would be down there monitoring that and talking with 

people at the dam up there, to close or open the doors. And I think 

they were a little late getting there on this one. 

I lost the furnace. It didn’t do damage to my walls or nothing because I live in an old house. It’s got pretty thick walls to it. But 

blew the windows out, the west window and the south window, the 

water just came in up to one step going into my living room. 

My truck was parked outside. We had visitors from out of town 

and we were shopping. And didn’t know all this was going on. My 

son, when he got out of work, he ran over to the house. The water 

was coming out when he opened the door, water was coming out 

of my truck. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Glen, thank you. Appreciate— 

Mr. NUNALLY. But there’s one other thing I want to mention, if 

I may. All of those new bridges they put in there by—this is directed to the Mayor, all those new bridges they put in there by 

McDonald’s, by the grocery store, I saw that years ago. It was before your time, Mayor, and I said that’s beaver engineering if I’ve 

ever seen it because it catches everything that comes down with 

the boxes they got under the supports. And I would like to ask the 

44

Mayor what are we going to do about that creek? Nothing is done. 

From the wall green, the trees are growing up out of there. The 

dirt, there’s places, I can see it from my house. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Glen, I want to get on with the rest of the 

witnesses here. 

Mr. NUNALLY. I didn’t realize we had a— 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s okay, thank you very much. We’ll 

talk to you later on. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Is it Mr. Torres? 

Mr. ESCOBAR. I’m Jose Escobar, Sylvia Torres’ husband. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I’m sorry. 

Mr. ESCOBAR. I know she already spoke, but I felt I had to say 

a couple of words. I wanted to voice my opinion. 

Chairman MANZULLO. You’ve got to stop moving and you got to 

talk into the microphone. 

Mr. ESCOBAR. I’m sorry, I had a bad back. Anyway, you know, 

I just don’t understand the fact that things have to be reconsidered 

as far as FEMA comes in and I mean, sometimes life is a struggle, 

but when we have insurance companies to back us up, they like to 

take our money as fast as they want to sell us the policy, you 

know. As fast as they take the money, when something as fast as 

this happened to us, Mother Nature cries or something, we want 

what’s ours and they just seem to like to quote words over the 

phone, don’t even send an agent down. I think there should be 

stricter rules against insurance companies, you know, when it 

comes to times like this. I mean fair is fair. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I’m going to have to cut you off because I 

want to get on with the rest of the witnesses. It’s a quarter past 

nine. 

Mr. ESCOBAR. To rest my case, I just want to FEMA please help 

these people that are in need. I’m used to struggling as a young 

father, but times like this, me and my wife normally don’t come out 

when we break a finger. We break an arm or lose your head, it’s 

something serious. I see a lot of families that are looking forward 

to just getting what belongs back to them to get on with their lives. 

Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. Mike, go ahead. 

Mr. BONAVIA. Yes, Mike Bonavia. I’m a senior electrical inspector 

for the City of Rockford. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Spell your last name for the record, Mike. 

Mr. BONAVIA. B-O-N-A-V-I-A. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay, go ahead. 

Mr. BONAVIA. We’ve heard so many tragic stories here tonight 

and of course there’s probably hundreds of them that we haven’t 

heard, that people weren’t able to come for one reason or another. 

But anyhow, one thing that we might have in the future is more 

tragedies and one of the reasons is because the basements that 

were flooded, the panels were submerged and those panels now 

may never have a breaker trip or anything like that. Once they’re 

under water, according to the NEMA standards which is the National Electrical Manufacturers Association, they may not work, 

they probably wouldn’t. 

45

And so it amounts to putting pennies in fuses, so we could have 

tragedies in the future from all these people that have their power 

on and think they’re safe. Without money coming forward from 

somebody, these people are not going to get these things updated 

and corrected, and so they’re living with an extremely dangerous 

situation. That’s all I have to say. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Mike. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. VRONCH. My name is Jim Vronch. That’s V-R-O-N-C-H. I’m 

one of the senior building inspectors for the City of Rockford. I was 

the one that had to condemn all of the houses that I had to go out 

into. Just to let you know I had to look in these people’s faces. It 

was sad. The people that come here and talk to you, I’m a professional at this. I was a carpenter for 18 years and I built houses 

here in Rockford. 

The Congressman is asking them for estimates on their houses. 

They don’t have any idea. They’re guessing. Right now, the Building Department is figuring $25,000 to $30,000 just to replace your 

water heater, your furnace and your electrical box. And half the 

people that are here, there’s another whole half of them that are 

scared to come here because they don’t want to call us because we 

would have to come out and maybe have them move out of their 

house because it’s dangerous. A lot of people don’t speak English 

well enough to understand that they need help. And I just want to 

say don’t be scared of the Building Department. We’re here for 

these people’s safety. 

Like I said, only half of them are here. And come this winter 

when they start firing up these furnaces and water heaters and we 

get explosions and fire, which the Fire Department will tell you 

about this. And another thing that concerns me is come winter 

time. I’ve seen basement walls that are heaved in. Well, once they 

want to heave back out, come this winter and we get snow, the 

snow is going to melt and it’s going to heave those basements back 

in again and you’re going to see more trouble than we had with the 

flood. 

Thank you. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Jim. 

Mr. GRAY. How are you doing? My name is Antoine Gray, G-RA-Y. I stayed at 2828 Holmes in the basement apartment. It was 

flooded really bad. Everything was lost. I just basically got a comment though. I don’t think it make no sense, you have to have two 

hearings and an appeal to help people out. People lost everything 

and it really don’t make no sense. I’m a younger guy, so you know, 

it’s really not to hard for me to bounce back, but there’s people in 

here that’s 50 and 60 years old that can’t go back to work or can’t 

do nothing, you know. It’s just taken a lot of time. Labor Day was 

three months ago, two months ago. That’s a long time to help 

somebody, especially a senior citizen. That just don’t make no 

sense. 

Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

Mr. FRIEL. I’m Ned Friel, senior mechanical inspector for the 

City of Rockford. F-R-I-E-L. 

46

I’ve done the majority of the inspections for the furnaces that 

have been replaced and the duct work. We’ve probably done 100 inspections. We have a bunch more to do. There’s a lot of damage out 

there, but one of the important facts that’s happening is as the 

ground is drying out, the foundations are cracking. Some of these 

guys aren’t seeing that, but when I go in and see the furnace, I see 

the cracks where the window was and from the ground settling 

from it drying. You’re going to have more problems. And it’s not 

going to get reported because the people aren’t going to call us 

back. So next spring, after the freeze/thaw, when the walls are 

down again, you’re going to have the same problem.So I don’t know 

what you’re going to do with it. 

Chairman MANZULLO. So the figure of 67 homes with serious 

damage, you think that’s under estimated? 

Mr. FRIEL. Come spring, it will be, definitely. 

Chairman MANZULLO. By how much? 

Mr. FRIEL. Well, in the last month, there’s probably 10 places 

I’ve been to where the cracks are there. They’re not the spider 

cracks. You can stick your finger through the crack and people say 

well, I never saw that before. So what do you do? 

Chairman MANZULLO. And many of those people, their names are 

not even on these charts? 

Mr. FRIEL. No. And the charts don’t have the people that have 

reported anything because like Jim said, they’re afraid. And I don’t 

know. I don’t know what you guys are going to do. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you. 

(Applause.) 

Chairman MANZULLO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. BENSON. My name is Jeff Benson. B-E-N-S-O-N. 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s an easy one. 

Mr. BENSON. I’m a heating contractor. Do mainly service work, 

but I’ve been out in the area here working on some of these homes. 

There are people here that know me. 

The buzzards are out there, boys. I’ve seen them. I’m from this 

town. I was born here. I don’t price gouge them, not like the gas 

boys and everything else. But the guys from out of town are coming 

in. They’re jacking prices up. 

A few years back, the Federal Government, I was in the Navy 

Reserves, and they asked me to do a job. They couldn’t get anybody 

else to do it. So I went. Gave up my job here for a year. I went 

and did it. I made it home. It was nothing big. But I went and did 

it when they asked me. 

These people need help. I’ve been out there. Seen it. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Thank you, Mr. Benson. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. MORRISSEY. Thank you very much. I want to thank all of our 

citizens who have come here tonight and who had the courage to 

stand up and it isn’t an easy thing. I think a lot of the comments 

were right on point when they said the truth which is a lot of people are here tonight, but we know there’s a lot more that are at 

home, a lot of people because of their age or other conditions 

weren’t able to be here. So our thoughts and our message includes 

all of them, even though they couldn’t be here this evening. 

47

I’ve got a few questions which I’d like to start with this evening 

to our representatives from FEMA and frankly, I open up the questions to either General D’Araujo or Mr. Buikema, whomever can 

help us answer this. 

As a Mayor who has been trying to help our citizens go through 

this crisis, go through this disaster, you know, I get a one-page letter back from FEMA in October in which our request for support 

was denied. Out of all the factors under the Stafford Act, the main 

thing that was said in this letter, with very little, basically no support behind it, was this statement: ‘‘that the damage to the private 

sector in the City of Rockford and portions of Winnebago County 

was not of such severity and magnitude as to be beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments.’’ 

I’d like to know from FEMA’s standpoint how do you reach that 

conclusion, especially in light of what you know about the conditions of the State of Illinois, the fact that the State doesn’t have 

an individual assistance program and the particular numbers of individuals, the folks represented in this room, the millions of dollars 

in uninsured claims and damage, how can FEMA reach that conclusion? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. First of all, let me go back to the comment, we 

discussed this previously, Mr. Mayor. None of those factors are considered in isolation. The severity and magnitude issue relates to 

the whole notion of all the collective resources of the State and 

local VOLAGs. FEMA is not the first resort. It is after those have 

been brought into play. 

When you look at all the factors we discussed in the discussion 

here, that was what brought the conclusion to where it went. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I guess I would ask and if you don’t know tonight, I guess that’s a fair statement to make or if there’s others 

in FEMA that we would point to for the answer, I’d like to know 

that, but in our particular case, I understand that certainly as a 

statement of conclusion, it could be determined that the event was 

not beyond the magnitude and severity to be beyond the capabilities of the State and local governments. I guess the kinds of things 

I’m wondering was there an examination of the City’s budget? Was 

there an examination of the current demands in our budget? Was 

there an examination of the State’s budgetary size to reach the conclusion? Were those types of specific elements considered in this 

case, because again, it goes back to what I stated in my original 

comments. I’m a trial lawyer by trade prior to becoming Mayor, 

and I’m always looking for a record to be able to respond to when 

we have to do an appeal and conclusory statements made that it’s 

not beyond our local capabilities. So I guess what I’m looking at is 

there some data that has not yet been provided to us that would 

included an analysis of the State’s budget or our local budget or 

some other factors that led to the conclusion that we can handle 

it? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Again, I would say that we aren’t looking at the 

State budget or your budget here in Rockford as an isolated case. 

What we have to look at is has the City and State prioritized their 

resources to deal with this kind of event? I know we talked about 

the State not having an individual assistance program per se. But 

48

what other mechanisms are there through social service mechanisms— 

Chairman MANZULLO. I have to interrupt at this point. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Sure. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Whenever you make a statement, and this 

is signed by Mr. Paulison and I asked him to personally review this 

case. I talked to him twice on this. Somebody has made a statement here that says ‘‘it has been determined’’—that means that 

FEMA has made a decision based upon a factual analysis—that’s 

what determination means—‘‘the damage to the private sector in 

the City of Rockford and in portions of Winnebago County was not 

of such severity and magnitude as to be beyond the capabilities of 

the State and affected local governments.’’ 

You have to be able to prove that. 

(Laughter.) 

You have to prove it. That’s what this is about. 

(Applause.) 

Mr. Buikema, please, you have made a statement. It doesn’t have 

to be notarized. I want to know on what do you base that? Tell me 

what State and local programs are available for these people? 

I need to know that. You have to know that before this letter 

goes out from FEMA because you have to prove a negative in order 

to come within the parameters of the Code of Federal Regulations. 

If you don’t know the basis for the denial, then Mr. Paulison has 

signed a letter that is not factually correct. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. I think Mr. Paulison’s letter is correct. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Then you have to tell us. Tell the Congressman that represents these people, the Mayor of the City of 

Rockford, and would you tell these people why you are denying this 

request. You’ve heard incontrovertible conclusive evidence from the 

State of Illinois and from the City of Rockford that there’s no help 

available for these people. Can you tell me how FEMA came to the 

conclusion that there are State and local resources available? Or is 

this just jargon that you put into a standard denial letter? We have 

a right to know that. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. It’s not a standard denial, Congressman. 

Chairman MANZULLO. This is very specific. You have to prove to 

us, you have to be able to stand behind this document. This is why 

we’re having this hearing. I ask you again, can you tell me what 

State and local resources are available to help these people? I’m entitled to an answer. 

(Applause.) 

And I’m not going to adjourn this hearing until I get an answer. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman, I can tell you— 

Chairman MANZULLO. If you don’t know, just say you don’t know. 

I’ll accept that. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. I can tell you the process that we went through. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I don’t care about the process. I want an 

answer to my question. It’s a fair question. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. I don’t dispute that’s a fair question. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Then give me an answer. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. The answer is, Congressman, that it’s looking at 

the— 

49

Chairman MANZULLO. No, no, no. It’s a very specific—if you had 

come out and said this is denied, that’s tough. That’s one thing. We 

would have understood that. But you have made a very specific 

statement of a set of circumstances that does not exist. Mr. 

Buikema maybe could help me out. I want to know, again, the 

same question. What resources are available from the local and 

State government to help these people? I want an answer to that 

question. If you don’t know, say you don’t know. The answer is 

there are none. Can you accept that as part of this hearing? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Well, Congressman, I can’t accept that based on 

the fact that when the size and magnitude of the damage with all 

the combination of State, local and voluntary agencies— 

Chairman MANZULLO. There is no help available for these people. 

Why is this so hard? Can you tell me? I am entitled to know as 

a Member of Congress and somebody who passes your budget, and 

that’s going to come up again. And you remember there was one 

Member of Congress that defended FEMA in that mess down in 

New Orleans and I was down there. One Member defended FEMA 

and the SBA, one out of 435. It’s this Chairman of the Small Business Committee. If I had known that you made arbitrary decisions 

like this, with no factual material, I would have been all over you. 

And I defended you. 

(Applause.) 

I am entitled to an answer. I want to know. Once more I’m going 

to ask you that question. What resources are available, State or locally to help these people? 

Mr. Buikema, name me the programs? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. Sir, I can only make suggestions. 

Chairman MANZULLO. No. I want an answer to my question or 

you’re going to sit here all night. 

Mr. BUIKEMA. What I would like to say is based on these kind 

of circumstances elsewhere I know that in many cases and other 

States, they have looked towards their Housing Authorities at the 

State level, looked at community development block— 

Chairman MANZULLO. That’s in other States. This is this State, 

rated number 50 in fiscal responsibility. This City led the nation 

in unemployment in 1980 at 25 percent. We have lost a quarter of 

a million manufacturing jobs last year; 18,000 in this City. There’s 

a man over here who just lost his job. It’s going to Singapore. You 

tell me, don’t guess what other States do. You tell me what goes 

on in Rockford and the State of Illinois. I don’t care what goes on 

in other States. That’s another standard to be determined. 

(Applause.) 

You guys never asked the question. You never asked the question 

when you put out this boilerplate letter. You’ve got to stand behind 

it. I want to know, again, what State and local programs are available to help these people? 

Mayor, is that a fair question? 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I think so. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I want an answer. If you don’t know, you 

don’t know. Mr. Buikema, did you ever make a diligent study as 

to what services were available from the State of Illinois and the 

City of Rockford to help these people monetarily? 

Did you ever ask the Mayor what was available? 

50

Mr. BUIKEMA. Did I personally? No, sir. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Did anybody from your staff ask the 

Mayor? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. I do not know, sir. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Did you ever get an answer from FEMA? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. No I didn’t, sir. 

Chairman MANZULLO. No one asked the question, but you came 

up with a conclusion. Can you see why these people are upset? 

I want the let the record know, the record will indicate that 

FEMA has refused to answer this question, posed by Mayor 

Morrissey and myself. 

In a letter dated October 20, 2005, this was engineered by Mr. 

Buikema, who is in charge of this area, a statement has been made 

in this letter, signed by Mr. Paulison. The statement is ‘‘it has been 

determined that the damage to the private sector in the City of 

Rockford and in portions of Winnebago County was not of such severity and magnitude as to be beyond the capabilities of the State 

and local affected governments.’’ 

I’ve asked that question several times. Both witnesses have refused to answer. 

Proceed, Mayor. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. A couple of points I’d like to raise. Number one, 

we’ve since raised, since the October 20th letter, hopefully some additional information for FEMA’s consideration in our appeal that 

will lead to a positive outcome and a positive determination. And 

I think the new data that we have made available, the continued 

work of all of our City staff, the folks in Human Services, our 

Building Department, Fire and Police, everyone who has been out 

surveying the actual damage, as you’ve heard tonight and you see 

up on the spreadsheets that we have, we’re making part of our 

record, part of our appeal and we believe justifies under the elements of the Stafford Act, a positive determination on disaster declaration and assistance for the individual assistance program. 

What I’m seeing, and again, I go back to the practice of law and 

our Constitution which even in the case where there’s significant 

discretion given to administrative body like FEMA, we know that 

the Constitution will not allow for arbitrary and capricious determinations and we look for a basis in the Constitution to support 

a denial or a support of our rights as citizens in this country and 

we all, in our federal system, we’re all citizens of the United States. 

And we’re looking for support from that same country that provided assistance in October of 2005 in New Hampshire, provided 

assistance in September of 2004 to folks in Minnesota and provided 

assistance in April 2004 in Massachusetts for floods not unlike the 

conditions which our citizens faced in this case. And I see that it’s 

significant precedent when you look at what happened in a Massachusetts flood with five to eight inches of rainfall, basements flooded to depths of excess of four feet; in New Hampshire, up to 11 

inches of rain. There they had more time, over 36 hours, but they 

had a thousand people evacuated. Here we had 1400 that had been 

evacuated. They had 150 people in shelters. We’ve had dozens and 

folks were still in shelters. 

In Minnesota, 10 to 13 inches of rain, again a 36-hour period. In 

each one of those cases that I reference and this is based on a fairly 

51

quick review of some of the instances where FEMA has found that 

individual assistance program grants were made available, they 

are not unlike the conditions that our citizens had faced. And 

again, the difficulty I have as a Mayor is to look in the eyes of all 

of our citizens, knowing what we’re facing from a budgetary standpoint each and every year as a Mayor, knowing what the State of 

Illinois is facing. 

I’d love to have the State of Illinois say hey, Mayor, we’ve got an individual assistance program, help us meet the gap of $5.5 million 

that we’ve got repairing these homes. But it’s illegal. It doesn’t 

exist. 

And so we are between the proverbial rock and a hard place. 

We’re seeing other States get the funds. I’m led to believe that generally because Illinois is one of the big States, that we should be 

able to take care of it, but what do we do when again, we have a 

State that has no individual assistance program. We all pay federal 

taxes. We’re seeing other States that get support in similar circumstances. What are we left to conclude as a result of this entire 

process if not again, the one hope we have is that the new information were available puts us in line with those other States to get 

support. Otherwise, I don’t see any basis for a consistent series of 

opinions. It looks to be arbitrary and capricious. And I’d like some 

comment on that. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. If I could, just a couple of things. I can’t relate 

what you just said about the other States to this particular scenario. Off the top of my head, I can’t tell you what the insurance 

coverage was. I can’t tell you what the State, local and voluntary 

agencies’ resources were that were brought to bear in those particular cases. There may be some very significant dissimilarities 

there. I don’t know that. 

What I will tell you, getting to your point earlier in your statement that whatever new information and we’ve mentioned both to 

you and to the Chairman, whatever new information you have, that 

bears on the appeal will be considered in the light that you 

present. You have our assurance of that. 

I don’t mean to speak for Mr. Buikema here, but he has your appeal package and we’ve heard what you’ve said. We’re going to look 

at the information you give us and give it a fair assessment. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Let me just be very frank with you. I’ve 

been a Member of Congress for 14 years. I have worked with virtually every agency in Washington. I have never worked with an 

agency as intransigent and as insensitive as FEMA. I’m just going 

to tell it right up front. I don’t know what it is with you guys that 

you don’t understand. 

We have worked through incredible EPA problems, Army Corps 

of Engineers. Mark Edwards is a very close friend of mine. He’s the 

Commissioner at IRS. We have immediate access. We get answers. 

I mean advisory opinions, everything. We pick up the phone, the 

legislative counsel. But I’ve never run across an agency like this 

that’s so incompetent. I’m just being very up front with you. 

This man from the State of Illinois has told you in his statement, 

it is against the law of the State of Illinois to give individual assistance like this. Mr. Buikema, you should have asked him what was 

available and you should have asked the Mayor what was availVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:54 Dec 12, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00055 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\HEARINGS\31095.TXT MIKE
52

able. And then you wouldn’t have come up with a statement like 

this. 

I mean even in your own statement, General, you say that initially you had 40 homes that were damaged. Based on what I see 

here, 67 is low. We’ve got basements, we’ve got walls that are buckling and they won’t know until spring. All you have to do is declare 

this a disaster. You come on in with your teams. You couple up 

with the SBA for those that can afford loans and you do the assessment property by property by property. Face by face by face by face 

by face, name by name by name by name by name. That’s the only 

way to do it, to be fair to these people, after you know you have 

erred. 

I mean you know you’ve erred when you can’t answer this question. That’s not asking too much. How long is this appeal going to 

take? Can we have an answer in a week? 

(Applause.) 

I need to know. We need to have a timetable here. You have all 

the information you need now. How long is this going to take? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. I can speak at the regional level, Mr. Chairman, 

that it is likely we will have our part of this wrapped up in a couple of days and then it will be sent off to Washington and I’ll defer 

to General D’Araujo. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. And I think once we get his assessment, barring 

any questions or comments or procedural things— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Don’t listen to the lawyers, all right? 

We’re both lawyers also. Don’t let them screw you up. 

If he can act in a couple of days, then you can probably—a couple 

of days after that. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. We can probably do it in two or three days, barring anything untoward in the package we get from the region. 

Chairman MANZULLO. The package. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. The assessment from the region that will come 

to us. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Now do you make your own independent 

findings of fact in addition to Mr. Buikema? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. I’m sorry, sir? 

Chairman MANZULLO. Do you making your own independent 

facts in addition to Mr. Buikema on the appeal? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. The analysis and evaluation from the region is 

the basis for our review. 

Chairman MANZULLO. What about this hearing? What if he 

misses something in this hearing? Would you take testimony in 

this hearing as part of the appeal process? I would trust so. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Any new information you bring in will be included. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Anything in this hearing will be included. 

Okay. 

I have just a couple of questions. In the number of homes so far, 

we’ve got it about 67 with a lot of damage, what do you think? Do 

you think that’s low now? 

Ms. JAEGER. We know it’s low. We know that there are houses—

Jennifer Jaeger, Community Services Director, Human Services 

Department for the City. We know that 67 is low. We went knocking on doors of people who don’t speak English and we know those 

53

homes have severe damage, but they’re not talking to us at this 

point. 

We know that people have damage that’s showing up now. So 

yes, that number is low. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman Manzullo, if I could make a couple 

other comments, if I could. 

One, whatever new information that is generated for the appeal, 

what the State would have to concur and submit to us— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Oh, come on. Can’t you take the testimony 

from these people? What do you want? It would take weeks to transcribe what’s going on here? You mean to tell me you can’t take 

this testimony as part of the appeal process? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman, we can’t do that without the 

State— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Well, the State agrees. Dave?Just a second, just a second. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman, we can’t take across the country 

individual testimony. We deal with the State as the primary applicant. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I understand. But we’re the victims here. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. I understand. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Okay. I mean the Governor can’t interview 

each of these people. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. I understand. 

Chairman MANZULLO. What do you want from the Governor? Do 

you want a statement? Do I have to get a letter saying listen to 

these people as part of the appeal? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. We need from the State any new information— 

Chairman MANZULLO. What do you mean from the State? What 

do you want? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. We want an agreement that this is the information that they— 

Chairman MANZULLO. This is the information here. Do you 

agree, Dave? 

Mr. SMITH. I can agree that we all heard the same thing at the 

same time. I think that’s important that we were all present for 

the information being provided. In all my years of disaster work 

and going through declarations, this is the first time we’ve had this 

forum as part of the appeal process and as far as the process goes 

to make a determination on a declaration. So I guess the question 

is one I’ve never had to face before, but I obtained information tonight and I believe FEMA obtained information tonight as did everybody here. So I’m not sure what else we need to do. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I mean the question is will you consider, 

General, and Mr. Buikema, the testimony of these witnesses here 

tonight to be part of the appeal record? Will you take what they’re 

saying into consideration when making your decision? 

Mr. SMITH. I might add that one thing that is difficult is that I’m 

sure a lot of the individuals that made comments tonight, they’re 

homes have already been included in the damage information. So 

to make a statement that this is all new information would not be 

correct, although there could be individuals that reported new information and in my testimony— 

54

Mr. MORRISSEY. What I’m going to ask for and I understand the 

formal process that the application and the appeal goes to the Governor’s office. I guess what we will be following up with is just that 

asking the Governor to adopt the materials and the evidence that 

has been brought through tonight as part of our appeal, so that it 

could be formally submitted and adopted through the Governor’s office. 

Mr. SMITH. The State would certainly accept any additional information from the City of Rockford. 

Chairman MANZULLO. This is the additional information. Do we 

have an agreement that—do you see, guys, what I’ve been working 

with? They thought your Congressman would play dead, that’s 

what’s going on here. 

(Applause.) 

Do we have an agreement that the testimony of these real live 

victims will be considered part of the appeal? 

Mr. Smith? 

Mr. SMITH. I have to be able to transit it some way. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Well, you heard it. Mr. Buikema, you’re 

going to make a decision in Chicago, and General, you’re going to 

make it in Washington. How do you transmit this? How long would 

it take to transcribe this Mr. Stenographer? What would it take, 

two to three weeks to get this typed? We don’t have two weeks. You 

remember what you heard today. 

Mr. BUIKEMA I can tell you, Congressman, I’ve had a couple of 

staffers that have been taking notes of what has been going on. 

Chairman MANZULLO. So is it agreed, on the record, that the 

statements of the witnesses here tonight will be part of what is 

considered on appeal, yes or no. 

Mr. Buikema? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. If they’re incorporated— 

Chairman MANZULLO. I’m incorporated as a Member of Congress, 

all right? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. If they’re incorporated into the process, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman MANZULLO. What do you mean by that? He’s saying 

it’s okay. 

Mr. SMITH. What I’m saying is that we’ll provide any information 

that we receive that comes from this hearing to FEMA to support— 

Chairman MANZULLO. What are you going to provide? 

Mr. SMITH. I have to have some sort of—if it’s going to be a written document. 

Chairman MANZULLO. You’ve heard with your own ears. 

Mr. SMITH. Pardon me? 

Chairman MANZULLO. General, are you going to make the decision, is that correct, in Washington? Ed, you’re going to make it in 

Chicago. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. The decision to do what, sir? 

Chairman MANZULLO. On whether or not to sustain the decision 

or to reverse it. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. We make a recommendation to the Director who 

makes— 

Chairman MANZULLO. But you make the decision. You make the 

recommendation. 

55

Gen. D’ARAUJO. We make the recommendation. 

Chairman MANZULLO. No, but you make the recommendation 

and he follows your recommendation. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Unless he disagrees. 

Chairman MANZULLO. But he doesn’t even know what’s going on. 

Mr. Paulison has no clue what’s going on here. I mean he’s got 

a lot of disasters going on around this country. I mean I just want 

to get this very clear, because I’m not going to go through this 

again. Is the testimony of these people who showed up tonight 

going to be made part of what you consider when you decide 

whether or not to uphold the decision or to reverse the decision? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman, to the extent that there’s new information here that hasn’t already been accommodated and it’s documented and the State submits it to FEMA for— 

Chairman MANZULLO. They’re not going to submit anything to 

you. You’ve heard the testimony with your own ears. How could it 

be clearer than that? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. As you well know, we have the process of the 

Stafford Act and the federal regulations that we have to live with. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I’m also an attorney and a Member of 

Congress and I represent these people and I don’t want to hear this 

B.S. coming from a bunch of bureaucrats. 

(Applause.) 

Why do you think these people are upset? Here’s the question, 

this is so simple. You’ve come all the way from Washington. If you 

don’t consider what they are going to say here, then you’ve misled 

me by coming out here and wasted your time tonight. 

(Applause.) 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman, I reiterate, for good, bad, or indifferent, we have a system that we need to work with. 

Chairman MANZULLO. Your system stinks. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Perhaps— 

Chairman MANZULLO. No, you don’t. I’m an attorney. I’ve got a 

Doctor of Jurisprudence. I’m a Member of Congress. I oversee the 

SBA and what it did down in New Orleans. I met with the FEMA 

people on the ground in Baton Rouge at the Disaster Headquarters. 

This is no stranger to me. I know how this thing works. I know 

how the SBA filters, who gets the money, who does not. I know 

FEMA can subrogate to the insurance companies, that you can step 

in immediately and help these people and then you fight the insurance companies. That’s what happened in New Orleans. 

You have the authority to do that. 

(Applause.) 

I’m not a stranger to the process. I understand it. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. But it is the process within which we have to 

work. 

Chairman MANZULLO. I’m telling you, I make the laws. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Congressman, I understand— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Don’t tell me the process. The question is 

very simple, are you going to take what these people have said tonight and make it part of your appeal process? That’s so simple. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. And the answer is not simple, because it has to 

be documented through the State— 

56

Chairman MANZULLO. Here’s the documentation. Maybe they 

should all go to Washington and sit in the office with Mr. Paulison. 

This lady is in a wheelchair. What more do you want? How can you 

document what she said? You can’t. I can give you copies of the stenographer’s tape. Would that work? 

(Unidentified audience members speak from unmiked locations 

simultaneously.) 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I’ve got a couple more questions I’d like to ask 

just about the process. 

I’ll tell you what we will do in light of the statements that have 

been made to try to support—I don’t write the rules in Congress. 

This process is foreign as much almost to me as it is to the citizens 

that are here. What we will do, however, as a City, to try to facilitate and provide a record from our own, frankly, which it wasn’t 

reciprocated when we tried to get a record from FEMA as to the 

basis for its decision, vis-a-vis the first question we asked, which 

we didn’t get a lot a basis for and it’s been frustrating, but what 

we will do to try to support a record that can actually be documented and reviewed is ask that the stenographer make copies of 

the tapes at a minimum, so we can transmit those actual tapes 

themselves, if it can be done. And I ask the stenographer can that 

be done? 

How fast can we get duplicates of the tape? Okay, in three days, 

we’ll get copies of those tapes. We’ll ask the Governor to anoint and 

adopt and forward them on, so that they can follow the right procedure. And I understand what we’ve been asked to do on that. We’ll 

do that. 

And we’ll try to have again any additional documents, if they 

weren’t part of our—in the appeal brief I think most of them were, 

but if they’re not, we’ll make sure we get an affidavit and get it 

supported and sent over to you with it, within those three-days 

time period so that you’ve got that for your consideration as documented and as referential as you need it to be. 

But beyond that, and again, I come back to a procedural question 

at this point, as long as we’re on the topic. Here’s what my question is. If a denial of our appeal is made, you know, remember from 

a law school class, every right needs a remedy. What’s the remedy 

either of a city or of an individual citizen via the legal process, 

given that we’ve got an administrative determination, if any? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Mr. Mayor, I don’t know what that remedy 

would be, to be very candid with you. I don’t know the answer to 

your question. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I’m somewhat familiar with some legal, our legal 

department do some work and we know there’s been some cases 

brought against FEMA based on negative determinations and outcomes and I just would ask tonight if you know, is there any recommendation that you would make in that process or are you able 

to do that this evening? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Mr. Mayor, I can’t answer your question. I would 

like to get back to you on that though, if we could. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. And in terms of those other states that I reference in which positive determinations have been made, are those 

referenced by FEMA when they’re making a determination in 

terms of being consistent with precedent in a case like this? In 

57

other words, will you go back and look at those determinations to 

see if in this case—will your recommendation be based on an evaluation of what you’ve done? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. You mean by comparison with other— 

Mr. MORRISSEY. Correct. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. No. We don’t do that. It’s a stand alone evaluation based on the damages. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. In terms of that evaluation, is there a rule of 

thumb or any kind of written or unwritten rule regarding for lack 

of a better phrase, when you’re considering a damage request, disaster request from a city like Rockford and we happen to be in 

quote a big State, is there some written or unwritten rules of 

thumb or guidelines that you follow when you’re looking at a big 

State, population-wise as opposed to a different State, smaller 

State? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. There’s a general guide and as you know in the 

CFR there’s a reference to the size of State. To that extent, but we 

don’t compare one state against the other, no. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I’d ask this question, is it a—when you’ve got a 

State like Illinois in which we have, we’re told by the IEMA Department that we simply don’t have an individual assistant program, is that counted for us, against us, is it considered at all? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. Not that you have or don’t have an individual 

assistance program is something we certainly urge every State to 

adopt. But no, it’s not a process—you don’t have an IA program so 

that counts against you, if I understand your question. No, it’s not 

part of the evaluation. 

We work with the National Emergency Management Association 

and encourage States to do that more and more are doing. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. Assuming for a moment that our revised estimates are correct that there’s at a minimum $5.5 million of claims 

that don’t have—repair work that needs to be done to homes to 

make them habitable, are we to believe that there is a measurement that since we happen to be in the State of Illinois, considered 

a larger State, that $5.5 million of uncompensable insurance repair 

work claims, there’s just simply no insurance to cover them, that 

it either is or isn’t in a ballpark for getting assistance? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. The $5.5 million is not the factor in terms of the 

ballpark that you mentioned, Mr. Mayor. The factors again, not to 

beat a dead horse, but it’s back to the kind of things that General 

D’Araujo has previously brought up about how we—the factors that 

are listed in the Code of Federal Regulations that decisions are 

made. So it’s not $5.5 million. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. So hopefully that means that because we have 

a specific impoverished, elderly population with a high concentration of damage, those additional factors will be weighed in as positive characteristics in light of our request? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. Those are all part of the considerations, yes, sir. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. And again, assuming that we have a higher population of impoverished and elderly folks without insurance in a 

particular targeted hit area, those factors generally would favor a 

positive determination as opposed to being a low poverty, high insurance covered area? 

58

Mr. BUIKEMA. Again, all of this is not looked at in isolation, but 

in totality about all of those factors, sir. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I understand that, but just as a basic statement, 

we’re more likely to get a positive determination if we have a lot 

of poor people as opposed to a lot of rich people in the affected 

area? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. Well, again, that’s one factor. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. Absolutely, but in terms of looking at that factor, we’re more likely to get a positive determination if we’re impoverished as opposed to a very wealthy district? 

Mr. BUIKEMA. I can’t speak on a national basis, sir, about that 

with any definition about whether that’s true or not. 

Maybe the General can answer that. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I’m just trying to get a baseline to understand 

whether the information we’re submitting is worthy anything. In 

other words, if we show the original assessment showed that we 

were perhaps had more money than our new data is, that data 

which shows that we’ve got a higher poverty rate, a higher rate of 

senior citizens, generally speaking, would weigh in favor of a positive determination. I’m not holding you to—I understand you look 

at a totality, but I’m just trying to understand if we’re wasting our 

time. I don’t want to waste the time of myself or any of our citizens 

here. We’ve gathered data. We believe that this data is going to be 

looked at in a positive light and I just want to know will it be—

is it generally considered to be positive that we’ve got these higher 

figures of poverty and elderly and uninsured than originally submitted? 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. If it’s new information, it would, yes. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. Okay. 

Gen. D’ARAUJO. But again, please understand, do not interpret 

that as we’re going to look just that as a determining factor. We 

talked about this previously. 

Mr. MORRISSEY. I understand. And from a procedural standpoint, 

too, I’d like to know—I asked, because I know not everybody who 

would apply assuming we were to get a major disaster declaration, 

not everybody who would apply for the individual assistance grants 

would be eligible. They may make too much money, but they may 

be eligible for an SBA grant. I asked early on—I’m sorry, SBA loan, 

SBA loan. 

I asked early on in the process why do we have—while our determination is pending as to whether or not we may get a major disaster declaration, if we’ve already heard, which we have from the 

SBA that we would qualify for potentially for the SBA loan program, why couldn’t we procedurally have started our citizens on 

that process earlier on and said what I’ve been told we have to wait 

until the entire process— 

Chairman MANZULLO. Let me answer that. The way it works is 

that people go into one center and SBA does the filtering. SBA determines whether or not people can afford to make a loan payment. 

If they’re turned down, then they’re handed over to FEMA. That’s 

the way it happened in New Orleans. And when I talked to Herb 

Mitchell who is in charge of disaster declarations, a very good 

friend of mine at SBA, he said Don, wait until FEMA decides what 

59

to do here, then we’ll come in and open up one office so that nobody 

gets missed. 

But I can tell you right now, most of the people here can’t afford 

to take out loans. I mean people here come from very, very low income backgrounds and a lot of these homes are not mansions 

they’re living in. They’re their mansions. The people here have very 

low incomes and the demographics show that they’re way below the 

mean income for this region. And so Larry, that answers your question. That’s how the two of them work together. But in all fairness 

to FEMA, we asked for an extension because FEMA refused to take 

the original figures of loss. We wanted to give you a total picture. 

You weren’t interested in that. The only picture you wanted to 

know was what you could reimburse. And so therefore, you never 

got a total loss, a total picture of the entire loss and I’ll tell you 

how far you were wrong. When Barrett Carr called me from the 

White House, and gave me the bad news, she said FEMA said that 

the damage is only about a $1 million. And at that point I knew 

that you guys had no clue in regards to the assessments that you 

had made. 

So that’s how that works. Some people can get SBA loans, some 

can’t. Based upon what I’ve heard tonight, I think very few people 

here, not even 4 percent, are going to be able to afford a loan on 

their homes and most would qualify for FEMA because of the area 

where they were located. 

Do you have any more questions? Okay. Well, we appreciate you 

making your trek all the way from Washington. I appreciate all of 

you for showing up tonight and this hearing is adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 10:35 p.m., the hearing was concluded.)

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Æ


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