UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: NORTHEASTERN AVIATION CORPORATION, Respondent Monday, March 7, 2016 FDMS No. FAA-2015-0206 1

The teleconference convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m. BEFORE:

(202) 234-4433 THE HONORABLE J. E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comAPPEARANCES: On Behalf of the Complainant: CAMILLE J. CASTILLO of: Federal Aviation Administration Office of Regional Counsel 1 Aviation Plaza Jamaica, NY 11434 718-553-3278 camille.castillo@faa.dot.gov On Behalf of the Respondent: EVELYN D. SAHR 2

of: Eckert, Seamans, Cherin, &Mellot, LLC 1717 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW

(202) 234-4433 Suite 1200 Washington, DC 20006 202-659-6619 esahr@eckertseamans.com

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com3
1 

### P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 

### 10:30 a.m. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We're on the 4 record in the matter of Northeastern Aviation 5 Corporation. This is Docket No. FAA-2015-0206. 6 

### Today is Monday, March 7, 2016, and 7 the parties have convened by telephone for a pre8 hearing scheduling

-- for a pre-hearing status 9 conference, excuse me. 10 The Federal Aviation Administration, 11 which I'll hereinafter refer to by its initials, 12 the FAA, is represented by Ms. Camille J. 13 Castillo. The Respondent, Northeastern Aviation 14 Corporation, is represented today by Ms. Evelyn 15 D. Sahr. 16 I do have a couple questions for you 17 both, and I'll start with Ms. Castillo. 18 

### Ms. Castillo, the attorney of record 19 for the FAA is a Mr. Daniel P. Kohlmeyer. Has he 20
-- oh, I see, you've put in an amended notice of 21 appearance on December 3rd, 2015, so I will 22 correct that, and I have no question about that.

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1 

### Ms. Sahr, yes, it's my understanding 2 that you're co-counsel with Mr. Longosz. Is that 3 correct? 4 

### MS. SAHR: That is correct 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 6 

### MS. SAHR:

-- with him, yes. 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Longosz isn't 8 here today? 9 

### MS. SAHR: Correct. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 11 

### So let's talk a little bit about the 12 status of the case. We last convened quite some 13 time ago, on June 18, 2015, and at that time, the 14 FAA stated that it would supplement the record 15 regarding how many violations it was alleging. 16 

### The FAA supplemented the record shortly 17 thereafter, on June 30, 2015, alleging there was 18 a total of 264 violations based on two separate 19 aircraft and flights, and as a result, it was 20 going to be requesting a proposed federal penalty 21 of $49,500 based on $150 per violation. 22

(202) 234-4433 

### Since that time, the Court did issue

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com5 

### 1 on February 23, 2016, an order clarifying the FAA 2 party and the Court's jurisdiction because of 3 some problems in the pleadings, and the parties 4 are here today because no summary judgment 5 motions were filed pursuant to the litigation 6 procedural order deadlines that were established 7 on June 18, 2015 by party agreement, and as a 8 result, pursuant to the June 18, 2015 order 9 setting litigation dates and procedures, this 10 particular telephone conference which had been 11 initially set for oral argument, dispositive 12 motions, was automatically converted to a pre13 hearing status conference. 14 We currently have a hearing scheduled 15 for June 14, 2016, in the Manhattan, New York or 16 Islip, New York area, and the parties

-- if the 17 parties would be so kind, it would be helpful to 18 update me as to the status of the case. 19 

### So I'll turn to you, Ms. Castillo, 20 first. There has been no summary judgment 21 motions or dispositive motions filed, so are the 22 parties ready to present their case? Should I be

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### 1 getting a courtroom in Manhattan or Islip, New 2 York? 3 

### MS. CASTILLO: Well first, Your Honor, 4 I would just like to address the order from 5 

### February 23rd. I do apologize. I
-- I did not 6 

### catch the error that was on the paperwork, and I 7 

### will ensure that it is properly that the 8 proper heading is used going forward. 9 As for

-- as for where we'd like to 10 have the hearing, either place is fine for me. 11 Probably my preference would be Manhattan, if 12 it's if it's possible, but either place is 13 

### doable. 14 As for the

-- as for the status of the 15 case, there has been

-- I'm not sure if the Court 16 

### is aware there has been some changes in 17 policy, and currently, we are evaluating on our 18 end whether or not this matter is suitable for 19 compliance philosophy, and there has not been a 20 determination as of yet. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 22 talk a little bit about those things.

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### Well, let's

www.nealrgross.com7 

### 1 Just so that you know, the the 2 location of the hearing was set already when the 3 parties last convened for the pre-hearing status 4 

### conference. So if you look at your June 18, 2015 5 

### order setting the location, dates, and 6 

### procedures, so that order on page 3, 

### paragraph 7 

### 14, sets not only the hearing dates, but the 8 

### location as well. 9 

### So I am pleased to hear that you are 10 in concurrence with your predecessor that 11 Manhattan, New York or Islip, New York work well 12 for you, because those dates and the places have 13 already been scheduled per agreement of the 14 parties. 15 In terms of the changes in policy at 16 the FAA, I have heard about that through various 17 FAA counsel. My question to you, I suppose, is a 18 little more specific. There's a June 14, 2016 19 

### start date to this particular hearing. Are the 20 parties in the process of engaging in settlement, 21 or are the parties fairly confident that they're 22 going to go to trial at this point? And if so, I

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### 1 need to know that so that I can ask my staff to 2 start looking for a courtroom in the New York 3 area so that I can confirm a courtroom and then 4 send you both the details of where we will be 5 meeting for the hearing. 6 So do you have a sense of
-- of where 7 the pendulum is swinging in terms of this 8 particular case? 9 

### MS. CASTILLO: I would have to say 10 

### that I think then well, can I inquire as to 11 how far in advance we would have to let the Court 12 know if the
-- the June dates aren't necessary, 13 are no longer necessary? 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well ideally, you 15 would be telling me now. That's why we're having 16 

### a pre-hearing status conference. If you don't 17 know for sure, and you're in the midst of 18 settlement discussions, then tell me that too so 19 that I can schedule a second pre-hearing status 20 conference 21 MS. CASTILLO: I would ask for
-- if 22
-- if Ms. Sahr has no issue with it, then I would

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### 1 ask for a second

-- a second conference date to 2 discuss it. I think that a settlement is highly 3 likely. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let's 5 

### let me ask you this: have you had a chance to 6 

### talk to Ms. Sahr privately before this 7 conference, and how far along have you gotten, if 8 at all? 9 

### MS. CASTILLO: I
-- I have not spoken 10 to Ms. Sahr, but there is a-- there

-- there are 11 several Northeastern cases, and Mr. Berman has 12 

### been talking with Mr. Mr. Berman from my 13 

### office has been talking with Mr. with Mr. 14 

### Longosz. I am not sure if I'm pronouncing his 15 

### name. And I know that there have been detailed 16 discussions with

-- in that matter. 17 Again, the compliance philosophy is 18 is rather new. We are trying

-- actively trying 19 

### to evaluate where we would stand where 20 where this matter would stand. 21 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I know that I 22 had a conference with Mr. Berman and Mr. Longosz

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 10 1 just last week on another FAA Northeastern 2 Aviation case, and we reset the matter for a 3 third pre-hearing status conference for Tuesday 4 the 22nd, 2016. 5 I am wondering if it might behoove the 6 parties for me to dovetail this particular case 7 into a slot next to the other Northeastern
s Aviation case on March 22, 2016 so that both 9 cases can be addressed on the same day, if in 10 fact settlement negotiations are concurrent with 11 that other case. 12 So Ms. Sahr, let me turn to you. What 13 is your position on that? 14 

### MS. SAHR: I think that makes a lot of 15 sense. I was also going to concur that a follow16 up conference makes sense because this particular 17 matter has not been discussed, and if it's 18 convenient with the Court to dovetail them on the 19 same date, I think it would work for us. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Ms. Sahr, 21 is Mr. Longosz the primary person talking to the 22 FAA for your client on both of these matters, and

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com11

1 is Mr. Berman his counterpart for that purpose? 2 MS. SAHR: I can tell you Mr. Longosz 3 is the primary person for both cases. I don't 4 know, I'd have to defer to Ms. Castillo on this 5 matter whether Mr. Berman is involved or not. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well Ms. 7 Castillo, let me turn back to you on that then 8 because it does me no good to continue the case 9 for approximately two weeks if nobody is talking 10 to anybody about settlement. 11 So is

-- will it be you as the point 12 person for Mr. Longosz and Ms. Sahr on this case, 13 or are you subbing in for Mr. Berman on this 14 particular conference today, but deferring all 15 the settlement discussions to him? 16 MS. CASTILLO: No, I will be the point 17 person, but I am working in conjunction

-- for 18 this particular case I am the point person, but I 19 have been working in conjunction with Mr. Berman 20 as to as to assessing these matters for 21 compliance philosophy. But in the over the 22 next two weeks, I will definitely speak with Mr.

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### 12 1 Longosz or Ms. Sahr personally so that we can be 2 on the same page. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: You mean -- or would 4 it be helpful for you to set up a time now with 5 Ms. Sahr to do that so that you don't miss that 6 opportunity window before March 22, 2016? 7 

### MS. CASTILLO: That would be
-- that 8 

### would be fine. I am available
-- I mean, what 9 

### would be a good date for Ms. Sahr? I am 10 completely available on the 18th of March. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let's 12 talk about that. 13 Ms. Sahr, we have Counsel for the FAA 

### 14 who is eager to talk to you about this case 15 privately. Do you have some preferred dates and 16 times next week that might work for you, or even 17 earlier? 18 MS. SAHR: The 18th is fine, and I 19 believe the 11th would be fine as well. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have any times 21 on the 18th that don't work, or is the whole day 22 open for you?

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1 MS. SAHR: Between 12 and 2 are no 2 good, but otherwise, we're open. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Ms. castillo, 4 turning back to you, on March 18, 2016, what time 5 during the times Ms. Sahr is available do you 6 want to have a conference call with her? 7 MS. CASTILLO: I would ask for about 8 3 o'clock on the 18th. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ms. Sahr, is that 10 workable for you? 11 MS. SAHR: Yes it is. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 13 Ms. Castillo, are you going to be 14 calling Ms. Sahr, or do you want her to call you? 15 MS. CASTILLO: I can -- I can contact 16 Ms. Sahr. I will just have to verify that it's 17 the proper number. I have Mr. Longosz's number 18 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ms. Sahr 20 MS. CASTILLO:
-- and I am not sure if 21 it also goes to Ms. Sahr. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ms. Sahr, could you

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com14 

### 1 advise us what your working number is for that 2 phone conference you're going to have on March 3 18, 2016 at 3:00p.m.? 4 

### MS. SAHR: Yes. It is (202) 659-6622. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ms. Castillo, do you 6 need that repeated, or did you get that? 7 

### MS. CASTILLO: I am going to just 8 

### repeat it to make sure that it's accurate. ( 202) 9 659-6622? 10 MS. SAHR: That is correct. 11 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And you'll 12 note, Ms. Castillo, that that's the number, the 13 second number that's listed on the Court's 14 

### service list as well. You have a written 15 reminder of that in addition to what Ms. Sahr has 16 also provided to you. 17 Now let's talk about March 22nd, 2016. 18 Currently, the other case I have that's scheduled 19 on my docket for that date is set between 1:30 20 and 2:30. Why don't we plan on March 22, 2016 at 21 2:30 p.m. That's a back-to-back rollover. And 22 then we can take care of both of these cases

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### 15

1 

### hopefully on the same day. Does that work for 2 you, Ms. Castillo? 3 

### MS. CASTILLO: That would work for me, 4 yes, Your Honor. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Ms. Sahr, 6 

### same question to you. 7 

### MS. SAHR: Yes, that works. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I will send 9 

### out a a little an order that basically 10 

### codifies that date and time for you. It will 11 also provide you the Court conference number so 12 that you don't have to call me in the office to 13 get it ahead of time, and then I wish you the 14 best in your discussions privately. 15 Ms. Castillo, on behalf of the FAA, is 16 there anything else that we can take care of for 17 your client today before we close? 18 

### MS . CASTILLO: No, Your Honor. I 

### 19 believe that

-- no, Your Honor. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Ms. Sahr, same 21 question to you. 22

(202) 234-4433 

### MS. SAHR: No, Your Honor.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com16
1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### okay. Then I thank 2 

### you very much. It appears our business is 3 

### complete. We can go off the record, and I wish 4 

### you both a good day. Thank you so much. 5 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 6 went off the record at 10:45 a.m.) 7 8 9 

### 10 11 12 13 

### 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comA $1504:21 $49,5004:21 a.m 1:11 3:216:6 above-entitled 16:5 accurate 14:8 actively9:18 addition 14:15 address6:4 addressed 10:9 Administration2:4

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(202)234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Washington DC 20

www.nealrgross.com21 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Northeastern Aviation Corporation

Before: u.s. DOT Office of Hearings

Date: 03-07-16

Place: Teleconference

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202)234-4433 Court Reporter

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