CITIZEN SERVICE IN THE 21ST CENTURY 

HEARING

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION 

OF THE 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND 

THE WORKFORCE 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION

HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, APRIL 25, 2002 

Serial No. 107-60 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Education 

and the Workforce

82-134 pdf 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office 

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 

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ii

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE 

JOHN A. BOEHNER, Ohio, Chairman 

THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin GEORGE MILLER, California 

MARGE ROUKEMA, New Jersey DALE E. KILDEE, Michigan 

CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina MAJOR R. OWENS, New York 

PETER HOEKSTRA, Michigan DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey 

HOWARD P. “BUCK” McKEON, California PATSY MINK, Hawaii 

MICHAEL N. CASTLE, Delaware ROBERT E. ANDREWS, New Jersey 

SAM JOHNSON, Texas TIM ROEMER, Indiana 

JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania ROBERT C. “BOBBY” SCOTT, Virginia 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina LYNN C. WOOLSEY, California 

MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana LYNN N. RIVERS, Michigan 

CHARLIE W. NORWOOD, JR., Georgia RUBEN HINOJOSA, Texas 

BOB SCHAFFER, Colorado CAROLYN McCARTHY, New York 

FRED UPTON, Michigan JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts 

VAN HILLEARY, Tennessee RON KIND, Wisconsin 

VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan LORETTA SANCHEZ, California 

THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado HAROLD E. FORD, JR., Tennessee 

JIM DeMINT, South Carolina DENNIS KUCINICH, Ohio 

JOHNNY ISAKSON, Georgia DAVID WU, Oregon 

BOB GOODLATTE, Virginia RUSH D. HOLT, New Jersey 

JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois HILDA L. SOLIS, California 

TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania SUSAN DAVIS, California 

PATRICK J. TIBERI, Ohio BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota 

RIC KELLER, Florida 

 TOM OSBORNE, Nebraska 

 JOHN ABNEY CULBERSON, Texas 

 JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

Paula Nowakowski, Chief of Staff 

 John Lawrence, Minority Staff Director

 __________ 

 SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION 

PETER HOEKSTRA, Michigan, Chairman

PATRICK TIBERI, Vice Chairman TIM ROEMER, Indiana

THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin ROBERT C. “BOBBY” SCOTT, Virginia 

JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania RUSH D. HOLT, New Jersey 

CHARLIE W. NORWOOD, JR., Georgia SUSAN DAVIS, California 

BOB SCHAFFER, Colorado BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota 

VAN HILLEARY, Tennessee LORETTA SANCHEZ, California 

TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania 
iii

Table of Contents 

OPENING STATEMENTOF CHAIRMAN PETE HOEKSTRA, SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE ............ 3

OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER TIM ROEMER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE ............ 4

STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN TOM OSBORNE, 3RD DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA, U.S. 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C.......................................................... 6

STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN HAROLD FORD, JR., 9TH DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE, 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C.................................................. 9

STATEMENT OF MARTHA JANE BOTTOMLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

VOLUNTEER MUSKEGON, MUSKEGON, MI ....................................................................... 16

STATEMENT OF REVEREND TIMOTHY R. SCULLY, C.S.C., EXECUTIVE VICE 

PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME, NOTRE DAME, IN ................................... 18

APPENDIX A - WRITTEN OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN PETE HOEKSTRA, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE 

WORKFORCE ............................................................................................................................. 29

APPENDIX B – WRITTEN OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER TIM 

ROEMER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE........................................................................................................... 33

APPENDIX C - WRITTEN STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN TOM OSBORNE, 3RD

DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C37

APPENDIX D - WRITTEN STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN HAROLD FORD, JR., 9TH 

DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C

...................................................................................................................................................... 41

APPENDIX E - WRITTEN STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, 

4TH DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

WASHINGTON, D.C................................................................................................................... 47

APPENDIX F - WRITTEN STATEMENT OF MARTHA JANE BOTTOMLEY, EXECUTIVE 

DIRECTOR, VOLUNTEER MUSKEGON, MUSKEGON, MI ................................................. 51
iv

APPENDIX G - WRITTEN STATEMENT OF REVEREND TIMOTHY R. SCULLY, C.S.C., 

EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME, NOTRE DAME, IN.. 59

APPENDIX H – SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD, STATEMENT OF HOUSE 

DEMOCRATIC LEADER RICHARD A. GEBHARDT, U.S. HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. ........................................................................... 67

Table of Indexes............................................................................................................................ 70 
1

HEARING ON CITIZEN SERVICE IN THE 21ST CENTURY 

___________________

Thursday, April 25, 2002 

Subcommittee on Select Education 

Committee on Education and the Workforce 

 U.S. House of Representatives 

Washington, D.C. 

 The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in Room 2261, Rayburn House 

Office Building, Hon. Peter Hoekstra, Chairman of the Subcommittee presiding. 

 Present: Representatives Hoekstra, Tiberi, Roemer, Scott, and Davis. 

 Staff present: Rich Stombres, Professional Staff Member; Whitney Rhoades, Professional 

Staff Member; Blake Hegeman, Legislative Assistant; Scott Galupo, Communications Specialist; 

Patrick Lyden, Professional Staff Member; and, Deborah L. Samantar, Committee Clerk/Intern 

Coordinator.

James Kvaal, Minority Legislative Associate/Education; Maggie McDow, Minority Legislative 

Associate/Education; and, Joe Novotny, Minority Staff Assistant/Education. 

Chairman Hoekstra. A quorum being present, the Committee will come to order. 

 We are meeting today to hear testimony on Citizen Service in the 21st Century. Under 

Committee Rule 12(b), opening statements are limited to the Chairman and the Ranking Minority 

Member of the Subcommittee. Therefore, if other Members have statements they will be included 
2

in the hearing record. 

 With that, I ask unanimous consent for the hearing record to remain open 14 days to allow 

Member statements and other extraneous material referenced during the hearing to be submitted in 

the official record. 

Mr. Scott. Without objection. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Without objection, so ordered. 

Mr. Roemer, good morning. 

Mr. Roemer. Good morning. I have got my forces here in case we have a vote, Mr. Chairman. I 

have three votes now. 

Chairman Hoekstra. That is all right. Since we are doing this in a bipartisan way, we might even 

give you five. 

Mr. Roemer. I am stacking them any way I can. 

Chairman Hoekstra. We will go back to the good old days of proxies, and you can have my proxy 

today.

Mr. Roemer. It sounds like a deal. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Yes.

Welcome to your daughters. 

Mr. Roemer. Sarah. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Hi, Sarah. 

Mr. Roemer. And Grace. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Hi, Grace. Good morning. 

Well, we are glad they are here. I would also like to welcome all of you to the 

Subcommittee’s second hearing on National Service.
3

OPENING STATEMENTOF CHAIRMAN PETE HOEKSTRA, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON 

EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE

Earlier this month, the Subcommittee learned about the details of the Administration's 

principles for reforming and strengthening the Corporation for National and Community Service. 

President Bush has proclaimed this week as National Volunteer Week, so it is particularly relevant 

that we are meeting this morning about Citizen Service in 21st Century. 

 As part of National Volunteer Week, the President has called on Americans to join together 

to celebrate the vital work that volunteers perform every day, and he believes the spirit of American 

volunteerism in America will he create a culture of responsibility and caring that will inspire us to 

achieve greatness as a nation. Across the country, volunteers are working behind the scenes to 

address needs in their communities through a broad range of organizations reflecting the diversity 

of our civil society including private charities, faith-based organizations, community organizations, 

and federal service programs. 

 Today, we will continue our discussion of the President's principles for reforming the 

programs under the Corporation for National and Community Service. Over the next few weeks, 

we will be working with the administration to update the law to reform and enhance the service 

programs under the Corporation. 

 We also hope to work closely with Representatives Ford and Osborne to include provisions 

from H.R. 3465, the Call to Service Act. There are many similarities between H.R. 3465 and the 

President's principles for reauthorization. Both proposals would: 

x Increase support for homeland defense activities including public safety, public 

health, and emergency preparedness; 

x Eliminate the taxation of the education award; 

x Add accountability provisions for Corporation programs; and 

x Provide authority for the Corporation to explore innovative and flexible programs 

that allow participants to determine where they wish to serve from among a variety 

of options. 

 The Subcommittee will also receive testimony today from service organizations such as 

Volunteer Muskegon, which enriches its community by providing leadership, services, and 

programs that support, promote, and recognize volunteerism. We will also hear from the Alliance 

for Catholic Education, a service program that allows college graduates to serve as full-time 

teachers in under-resourced Catholic schools in the southern United States. 
4

WRITTEN OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN PETE HOEKSTRA, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE – SEE APPENDIX A 

Chairman Hoekstra. I will keep my remarks brief this morning, so we will have ample time to 

hear from our distinguished witnesses. With that, I will yield back my time, and yield to my 

colleague from Indiana, Mr. Roemer. 

Mr. Roemer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous consent to have my entire statement 

entered in the record. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Without objection, so ordered. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER TIM ROEMER, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON 

EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE 

Thank you very much. First of all, I want to welcome our distinguished colleagues here to 

our Subcommittee. Congressman Ford, a very good friend of mine, who has served on the New 

Democrat Coalition with me over the years, and has also been somebody who has continually 

brought new ideas to the forefront, and certainly presents a very intriguing idea to us now on 

National Service, one that mirrors one introduced by Senator Bayh, my colleague and friend, on the 

Senate side. So I welcome my good friend, Congressman Ford. 

I also want to recognize and welcome Congressman Osborne. Congressman Osborne and I 

have worked on a host of bipartisan issues together on the Education Committee, and we have 

worked across the aisle, together with the Chairman, on issues. We are very anxious to hear your 

testimony on the Bayh-McCain senate bill that Congressman Ford and you have introduced on this 

side. I know that you have worked with the DLC and the PPI on this idea. We welcome many of 

the aspects in the bill. 

 We also welcome Congressman Shays. The Chairman and I have met several times with 

Congressman Shays on the reauthorization of AmeriCorps with John Ridgeland and other White 

House people. And so, we look to do this in a very bipartisan way, and see a bipartisan 

representation here before us. 

 If I am interrupted in my next two minutes, Mr. Chairman, it is because my daughters, 

Sarah and Grace, probably have reminded me of something that I have left out of my statement. 

So, excuse me if that happens. 

 I also want to welcome a good friend and a real inspiration to me in the way he has run an 

AmeriCorps program; the AmeriCorps Service continually holds up as one of the single best 

programs in the entire nation. And that is Father Tim Scully, who came up with the idea. He is 
5

going to be a witness on the next panel, and we are going to hear more about the Alliance for 

Catholic Education, the great provisions, the great ideas, and the great inspiration that this program 

provides for public schools in South Bend to tutor underprivileged children. 

 They take a host of different students who are graduating with their master's degrees in 

teaching, and put these teachers in underserved Catholic schools in the South, where they teach 

science and math and help educate underserved children across the United States. So their impact is 

two-fold, both in public schools in Indiana, and in some private schools underserved in the South.

I am very excited about this reauthorization process. As I said, we are working with 

President Bush. I was encouraged with the President's statement in the State of the Union where he 

wants to expand National Service on President Clinton's idea. We are working with his 

representatives to get this through Congress. 

 In light of what happened to this country on September 11, I think you are seeing a real 

revival in the spirit of giving to our communities. We are not leading this revival in spirit as public 

servants; the people are leading it. I was back home on Friday in an AmeriCorps ceremony in my 

hometown of South Bend, where we had a score of AmeriCorps volunteers who participate in 

already successful programs in a homeless center, and in a shelter for battered women and their 

children. 

 These AmeriCorps volunteers have been succeeding across the board for the last five or six 

years. We want to replicate these programs and tap into this great spirit that is percolating across 

our country and find ways for more and more people to contribute, whether it be to help the 

homeless and shelter them, whether it be to feed the hungry, or whether it be to educate the 

underprivileged.

 We can come up with these great ideas and do it in a bipartisan way across the aisle. So I 

am encouraged by the proposal here before us. With Senator McCain, and Senator Bayh having a 

similar proposal on their side it brings a bicameral perspective to this as well. So we are very 

excited to hear the testimony this morning. 

 Again, Mr. Chairman, thank you for your bipartisan spirit and your cooperation in the many 

meetings we have already had on this. Thank you. 

WRITTEN OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER TIM ROEMER, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON SELECT EDUCATION, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE - SEE APPENDIX B 

Chairman Hoekstra. Thank you. Mr. Roemer, I think you wrapped up my comments pretty well, 

in terms of where I was going to go. We want to welcome our colleagues, Mr. Osborne, Mr. Ford, 

and Mr. Shays for being with us this morning and sharing their perspectives on service. 
6

 You know, not only are Tim and I doing this on a bipartisan basis, but any time you can get 

somebody from the University of Michigan and the University of Nebraska to sit next to each other 

and agree on something here in Washington, it is great progress because we do not agree on much 

on the football field. We also have Notre Dame represented here. And, Chris, I don't know if they 

play football in Connecticut or not. 

Mr. Roemer. They play basketball. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Well, in Michigan we don't talk about basketball a whole lot recently. But, 

Tim and I are trying to set a tone for the reauthorization of this bill by working with Chris, and we 

hope by working with Congressman Osborne and Congressman Ford, and getting it done this year. 

 We have set a tentative objective of moving this bill out of Subcommittee and Full 

Committee by the end of May, before the Memorial Day recess. So that is a very aggressive 

schedule. But, you know, we started this work last fall when Chris and Tim and I met with the 

folks over at the Corporation of National Service, and we met with their board. 

 So, with that, we are looking forward, Congressmen Osborne and Ford, and Congressman 

Shays, to your comments this morning. Congressman Osborne, we will begin with you. 

STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN TOM OSBORNE, 3RD DISTRICT OF 

NEBRASKA, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank Congressman Roemer for his kind 

comments. It is nice to see Sarah and Grace here. I think Sarah was right, I know Grace is, and the 

rest of you on the Committee. 

 As Mr. Roemer mentioned, I think all of us are aware there is a tremendous resurgence of 

patriotism and a desire to serve throughout the country after September 11th. I am old enough to 

remember back to Pearl Harbor. I guess that it rang a bell because I began to see the country come 

together. A lot of young people became aware there was a patriotic fervor that they did not know 

was there. And so, that has been encouraging. The question has been, “How do you harness this?” 

And I thought about it. 

 Congressman Ford came to me with an idea that seemed to make sense that was embodied 

in the Call to Service Act (H.R. 3465). It was mentioned that this was initiated over on the Senate 

side, to some degree, but there are several key components of Call to Service, I would just like to 

mention briefly here. Some of them may prove to be attractive to the Committee, some may not. 

As you know, it expands the AmeriCorps program from 50,000 to 250,000 members by 

2010. So it is fairly ambitious in that regard. There is a military component, which is not within the 

jurisdiction of this Committee, and I understand that. It may be something that is a little bit 
7

farfetched, but I still like the idea. It is 18 months of active duty, 18 months of reserve duty, and 

then at the completion of the military component, $18,000 of educational award goes to the person 

who completes that service. And, of course, it can be used only for education.

I guess the reason that it rang a bell with me was that so many of the young people I worked 

with were 18-years-old. Most of them had no idea what they wanted to do. They knew they wanted 

to play football, and that kind of helped them hang in there, and gave them something shoot for. 

But there was not a whole lot else in their lives, and maybe by the time they were 20 or 21, they 

had it figured out what they were going to do. And so it served them well to play on a football 

team, but most people don't have that. So I think sometimes a period of reflection, a period of 

military service, and an opportunity to serve your country can serve as a time that kind of stabilizes 

you, and gives you some vision of what you want to do. 

And then, of course, I think it benefits the country because as all of us know, our borders 

are very vulnerable. We need people to guard airports, nuclear plants, bridges, and buildings. And, 

right now, in many cases, people who are overqualified and more highly paid than they need to be, 

are doing that. We have fireman, and policemen, and career military people doing jobs that entrylevel military people could handle. 

So it is something I think we ought to think about. I think it would cost-effective, even 

though it is expensive. I think it could benefit the country a great deal, and certainly benefit the 

young people involved. 

 The SeniorCorps component, those over 55, I think is very important too. I think this is a 

tremendous untapped resource that we have in this country. We have more and more people 

retiring early, and we have more and more people who are living longer. So I think it is important 

we take a look at this. This is the fastest growing segment of our population. 

As most of you know, there have been some real problems with family stability in the last 

20 to 30 years. Over one-half of our young people are apparently growing up without both 

biological parents, 18 million fatherless children in our country. I dealt with a lot of those guys, and 

I realize the havoc that that plays in your life. There is a lot of dysfunction going on out there, a 

real lack of extended family, and so we think that the SeniorCorps is something that can be used 

very effectively in a couple of ways. 

 One way is tutoring. There are a lot of reading, math and science programs that seniors can 

help with one-on-one. I think that would be very helpful. 

Another way, and something that has been near and dear to my heart, is mentoring, a 

relationship with a caring adult. Someone who has some life experience can reduce absenteeism by 

roughly one-half, drug abuse by one-half, teenage pregnancy by 30 to 40 percent, violent crime, 

and different types of civil disobedience dramatically. 

 We think that mentoring is something that really works. And the Act provides that for 500 

hours of volunteer service, a senior would get a $1,000 academic stipend, which they could give to 

a grandchild, to someone in their community, or maybe to the young person they are working with. 
8

So it gives them some motivation. It gives them a way that they can focus their energies. I think 

lots of people are looking for ways to serve, and they just really don't know how to go about it. 

 The third component is expanding community service. As you are aware, I think the 

President has a component in his bill, and we have this idea that 25 percent of college work-study 

programs would address community service. I think the President’s plan was 50 percent, or 

something like that, but certainly both ideas are excellent. Also, the Act provides $100 million in 

challenge grants to be matched by grants from the private sector for nonprofits that serve 

communities. And so, if you have got a program that is doing well, that is serving a lot of people, it 

allows people to expand. Some of these grants may be used as stipends for teachers in underserved 

areas and such programs. 

 The last thing I will mention I think is important and that is accountability. I know a lot of 

my colleagues on the Republican side are a little uneasy about these kinds of programs, and 

probably rightly so, because government programs are generally viewed with some suspicion. The 

thing is, like we always say here, the devil is in the details. If a program is not well administered, it 

can be a boondoggle. But I think that there is a built-in accountability in the Call to Service Act 

that really will help. It requires an independent third party review. This, of course, holds people to 

a standard of performance and accountability. This is an annual review, and I think that is very 

important. I think it is an important part of the bill. 

 So, it may be that we have an amalgamation of ideas here, and maybe there is something 

here that you can use. But I think in general the country will be well served if we can incorporate 

some of these ideas. Thank you for your time, and your attention, and we will be at your disposal 

this morning. 

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN TOM OSBORNE, 3RD DISTRICT 

OF NEBRASKA, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C 

SEE APPENDIX C 

Chairman Hoekstra. Thank you. I do believe that there are a number of points that directionally 

are consistent with what the President has been talking about, and with what we have been talking 

about with the Corporation. And so, I think there is a lot of common ground that we can build on. 

Congressman Ford. 
9

STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN HAROLD FORD, JR., 9TH DISTRICT 

OF TENNESSEE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, 

D.C.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you Congressman Roemer, for the kind words, and for all 

of the work with regard to the New Democrats. We are going to miss you here in the Congress. 

We hope to have you back somewhere here on the Hill one day in the near future. 

 It is always good to see my favorite members of your family, Grace and Sarah, as well, with 

you being a distant fourth, and your wife being the third. I used to serve on this Subcommittee, so 

it is a delight to be back before Mr. Scott, and Ms. Davis, and Mr. Tiberi. Thank you for having 

me here this morning. 

 I can only echo the points already made by Congressman Osborne. I will say that it is good 

to be on the side of the coach. I know when my teams have gone up against them in the past, they 

haven't fared so well at Michigan and Tennessee. 

 So it is a delight to be with him and Chris Shays, who is one of the more courageous voices 

here in the Congress. When the history books are written, and you look at the accomplishments of 

not only this Congress but also many before and those who provided inspiration and momentum, 

Chris Shays will be viewed very favorably. He is viewed favorably by a lot of us in the Congress 

already, and I am a firm believer that history will treat him perhaps more generously than some of 

us already treat him here. It is a delight to have him on the bill. 

 Let me just highlight two or three points that Congressman Osborne did not raise. I can 

only align myself with all of his comments about the surge in patriotism and the belief that 

patriotism is about more than fireworks and waving flags. It is about service and sacrifice. And, 

obviously, many members of our military, who are representing and defending us, overseas as we 

speak, are rendering the greatest sacrifice.

Nine of us traveled not long ago, Mr. Chairman, to Afghanistan. I am proud I can 

pronounce the names of these countries, Uzbekistan, and Kurdistan, and Tajikistan. We met with 

defense and economic ministers in all of those places and had a chance to meet not only with 

Chairman Karzai, but also with many members of our U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force. 

 As someone who has no military experience, and there is very little military experience in 

my family, you walk away with the greatest appreciation for the dedication, and resolve, and 

frankly the courage of these young men and women. 

 For anyone who believes that young people are incapable of doing wonderful and important 

things, as Mr. Scully and others know, you need look no further than those who are representing 

and defending our interests and our values, not only in Central Asia, but all across the world, for 
10

that matter. 

 It has been said that Senators McCain and Bayh were the original authors of this legislation.

They are, and we give them full credit for all that they have done on the Senate side. We thank 

them in a lot of ways for allowing us to try to move this bill on this side. 

 The President's USA Freedom Corps is a great idea. I do not think you will find much 

resistance from Congressman Osborne, or even Congressman Shays, or for that matter the many 

who have signed on to this piece of legislation. However, there are a few differences. 

 If I could be so bold in this land of bipartisanship to just point some of those differences out 

and ask for some consideration, I would hope that we would have a very thoughtful and sincere 

debate about where there are differences. 

 To add on to what Congressman Osborne said, in addition to all that he said, the Call to 

Service Act actually eliminates a tax on education awards. Having served on the Committee, I 

know all of our collective affinity for eliminating taxes. It is estimated this would cost some $4.5 

million a year in the first year; $15 million annually when fully implemented; and close to $80 

million over the nine-year life of the bill. 

 One other thing that the Call to Service Act does is that it boosts community service and 

work-study programs to an achievable 25 percent. The President's version increases it to 50 

percent. One of the reasons or considerations for that, Mr. Chairman, is, as you know I come from 

an urban area in Memphis, and Tom Osborne comes from a very rural area. I think his district 

covers perhaps some 70 percent of the state of Nebraska, two very, very different districts. One of 

the ways in which we were able to harmonize or reconcile some of the differences was to figure out 

ways in which we would not overburden institutions of higher learning, and many in the higher 

education community expressed some reservation and objection to this 50 percent number in their 

work study program, so the Call to Service Act brings that down to 25 percent. 

 Congressman Osborne also mentioned the Senior Service Act. We lower the age limit from 

60 to 55, and we raise instead of eliminate, as the Freedom Corps bill does, the low-income cap to 

200 percent of the poverty line for those qualifying for a stipend, for all of the reasons that 

Congressman Osborne mentioned. 

 Second to last, I know this Committee's fervor for accountability. We have all seen in the 

past three to six months, in particular those who might have worked for, or had someone in Enron, 

the need for annual third party reporting. I share the Chairman's concern for assessing outcomes 

and effectiveness of programs. The Call to Service Act actually includes an independent audit 

provision, which will allow us to continue to find ways, to search for ways to lower the cost of this 

program, and increase or improve its effectiveness. 

 Lastly, Mr. Chairman, the focus of the Call to Service Act, again, as Congressman Osborne 

mentioned, increases member participation from 50,000 to 250,000 by 2010. The AmeriCorps 

structure is one that is working in a lot of ways. There are some problems and flaws. The 
11

Chairman and I have had conversations about this in the past. 

 Congressman Osborne and I are both Members of the Full Committee, and I am no longer 

on the Subcommittee. But what we have seen is that the program can work, and that the program is 

working, and there are ways in which we can improve it. 

 The President's plan actually creates a new bureaucracy. And, again, I know this 

Committee's lack of affinity for new bureaucracies, or even old bureaucracies for that matter. 

Much of this program would be administered through the Federal Emergency Management 

Administration. The concern that I have, or I should say, the reason that we took this approach is 

that FEMA has a top-down approach, and the President has offered the idea of a civilian corps that 

would help and assist FEMA in its efforts. 

 It is probably a good idea, but I do not think we should confuse the two. And, perhaps, we 

can do both. If this Committee, this Congress and Senate, and the legislative branch, sees fit to 

fund both, then we should do that. 

 What this effort does is build on the success of a current program. I think we have an 

infrastructure in place to accommodate that. We also ask for 50 percent of the efforts through the 

expansion of AmeriCorps to be directed towards homeland defense or homeland security, including 

public health, public safety, and disaster relief, and preparedness. 

 In the public health infrastructure in Memphis and Shelby County where I am from, kids 

could participate there. The Call to Service Act also requires that the Homeland Security Office 

work with state commissions including Father Scully's. 

 I would be interested in his thoughts because, as you analyze these bills, the Call to Service 

Act would allow for his organization, and for Tim Roemer to go back to that district and work 

closely with his organizations. The USA Freedom Corps would cause you to have to work with 

FEMA, and another letter would have to be sent asking you to work with Father Scully because of 

his experience. It would cause you to have to work with another entity creating another level of 

bureaucracy. 

 In a lot of ways, the Call to Service Act decreases the level of bureaucracy and allows for 

the programs that are currently in place, Mr. Chairman, to continue working, and allows this 

Committee and this Congress to choose the independent or third party that would be charged with 

auditing.

So, with that, Mr. Chairman, I thank you and look forward to hearing from Mr. Shays. 

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN HAROLD FORD, JR., 9TH

DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

WASHINGTON, D.C.- SEE APPENDIX D 
12

Chairman Hoekstra. I think Tim, and Chris, and I have worked and have talked with the 

Administration on each of these points. Again, I think there is a lot of common ground on the 

issues that you are talking about. Any time we can find some of our colleagues on the other side of 

the aisle that are in favor of permanent tax cuts, hey, we are with you. 

Mr. Ford. Sign me up, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Hoekstra. We will sign you up. The work study provisions are something that we have 

had extended discussions about, as to whether 50 percent is the appropriate target, or whether it 

should be something along the lines that you and Congressman Osborne are talking about, 25 

percent. We recognize that is an issue that needs a lot of discussion.

The change in SeniorCorps is something that we have talked about. The Administration 

recognizes that your bill is out there, and that there is not an exact difference of opinion, about what 

is the most appropriate direction to go in, and the accountability provisions, and the increase. 

 You are right in outlining exactly what the best structure is here in Washington to support 

this, because we and the Administration wants this to be grass roots. We recognize that the strength 

of this program is from the bottom up, not from the top down. 

 And so I think there is a lot of common ground in what you are proposing between the 

Members that are here today, and this is why we are optimistic we can move through on an 

aggressive schedule. We may not end up exactly where your bill is. We probably won't end up 

exactly where some of the provisions of the original White House bill are, but we are all fine with 

that.

 We think that through good dialogue we can find common ground that will enable us to 

move this bill forward, and that these things won't become roadblocks, but we recognize that they 

are minor differences on a road with shared common objectives, and that we can work through 

them quickly and effectively and get a good resolution. So we look forward to working with you 

and Congressman Osborne and taking elements of your bill and putting them with the 

Administration’s. 

 Congressman Shays, welcome and good morning. 

Mr. Shays. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am delighted to be with you, and your 

Ranking Member, and your fellow Committee Members. And obviously to be on the same panel 

with Congressman Osborne, a true hero in the United States for so many of us, and then to be with 

someday President-elect, Harold Ford. I figure since I think he will be President someday, he can 

call me whatever the heck he wants. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Ambassador? 

Where did you want to go? 
13

Mr. Shays. I was kind of thinking Vice President, but ambassador sounds good. 

Mr. Ford. We're going to put him up for the selection committee. 

STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, 4TH DISTRICT 

OF CONNECTICUT, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

I know, Mr. Chairman, you are clearly a strong fiscal conservative. I know that you 

believe, as many of us do, that one of the most productive and cost-effective investments in our 

government can be National Service. And, obviously, the benefits to those who serve, and to those 

they serve are just frankly, unbelievable. 

 I still remember how I felt as a 14-year-old watching the 1960 debates between Vice 

President Nixon and Senator Kennedy. I felt energized to hear Senator Kennedy's appeal to me and 

other young people when he spoke of the Peace Corps and making the world a better and safer 

place.

 I wanted to be part of that vision as a young person. I would like to think there are young 

people today that are hearing President Bush speak about service to humanity and to their country, 

and feel that same sense of vision. Obviously, I was grateful that my wife and I had the chance to 

serve in the Peace Corps. I will tell you, and if you spoke to any Peace Corps volunteer who serves 

in Congress, as much as we appreciate and are extraordinarily grateful to be Members of Congress, 

the best two years of our lives were in service to our country, and to the world community in the 

Peace Corps. 

 The President's call to service through U.S. Freedom Corps, I think is just the right 

prescription. It has the term “Freedom Corps,” but it is really I think a clearinghouse to help direct 

Americans to service, and to help show them all of the different ways they can be of service. 

 His call for 4,000 hours out of our lives for community service, which amounts to two years 

of service work time, if you thought of a 40 hour work week; not that I think Americans ever think 

of just working 40 hours a week. It is a noble cause that so many Americans already have 

responded to. 

 Now I think it is time for Congress to do what it needs to do and reauthorize the National 

Service Bill, the Corporation for National and Community Service. I want to say when President 

Clinton put forward this legislation and I worked with Dave McCurdy, I was impressed with Eli 

Segal, who worked hard to set this up. He wanted Republicans to be a part of this process. He 

listened to the one thing Republicans asked for, “don’t have it be central based.” “ Don't have it be 

nation based. Have it be programs that come from the local communities and the states.” 

 That is what we did on a bipartisan basis. The result is you have good programs and you 

have bad programs, instead of one average program that kind of just gets by. You have such 

energy in the states and the local communities from that, and I think that is a strength that has to be 
14

maintained. But, with it, when you let local control and states bring forth so many of these 

programs, you can have some programs that simply don't work. That is the nature of it. And so, 

you watch it, and you eliminate them, and you seek and try to maintain what is good in them. 

 I could go on with my gratitude to this President for wanting to increase AmeriCorps by 

25,000 members, the SeniorCorps for 100,000 members, the estimated student volunteers by 

200,000 to 300,000 members. All of this is extraordinarily exciting. And you, Chairman Hoekstra, 

and Mr. Roemer, are going to be guiding this legislation through the Subcommittee, through the 

Full Committee, and on the floor of the House. 

 I think you have one of the extraordinary opportunities that a Member of Congress has, to 

take what was good from the past, and work on a bipartisan, bicameral basis. I am just here to 

pledge my support as someone who would work on the original legislation and to say, I want to be 

part of your team. I want to make this happen. I want to work with my colleagues who sit at this 

table. And, frankly, I want the opportunity to finally go to a bill signing. 

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, 4TH

DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. - SEE APPENDIX E

Chairman Hoekstra. Let's not push it here. Thanks, Chris. I think you know, as Congressman 

Roemer and I have indicated over the last few months, we value your input. We have tried to make 

you a part of this team and feel ownership of this. 

Mr. Shays. Thank you. 

Chairman Hoekstra. That will continue, as it will with our colleagues who are Members of the 

Full Committee. So we thank the three of you for testifying this morning. We look forward to 

working with you over the coming weeks. And, like we said, we hope that this will be on a fast 

track.

Mr. Shays. Thanks. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Great, thank you. 

Mr. Roemer. Mr. Chairman, as the other witnesses come up, can I ask unanimous consent to have 

Mr. Gephardt's statement in support of our efforts to get a bipartisan bill put in the record? 

Chairman Hoekstra. Without objection, so ordered. 

Mr. Roemer. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
15

Chairman Hoekstra. Good morning, I would like to take this opportunity to introduce our second 

panel. We have Ms. Martha Jane Bottomley. She is from my district, and we just had an 

opportunity to get together on Monday. 

 Ms. Bottomley is the Executive Director of Volunteer Muskegon. She also works for the 

Youth Volunteer Corps, an organization dedicated to engaging youth in community service. In 

addition to her numerous volunteer efforts, Ms. Bottomley has served on the Governor’s Service 

Award Selection Committee. She earned a Bachelor of Science degree from Grand Valley State 

University.

 Thank you for being here. And thank you, most importantly, for all of the work that you 

have directed in the west Michigan area, specifically in Muskegon, Michigan.

Chairman Hoekstra. I will yield to Mr. Roemer for purposes of introducing our next witness. 

Mr. Roemer. I could go on and on for probably an hour to introduce Father Scully, who has held 

many positions at the University of Notre Dame. His current one is the Executive Vice President 

of the University. He has been Assistant Provost. One title that I think he holds very near and dear 

to his heart is teacher or professor. He has done many outstanding things for the University. 

 One of the things that he is here today to talk about, however, is the Alliance for Catholic 

Education, an idea that is really his brainchild. We now have teachers spread throughout America 

due to his dedication and the original idea that he came up with. This really is an inspiring idea. It 

is working. It is an effective idea. It retains these students in teaching professions. And, as I said 

before when I talked about my friendship with Father Scully, it is a “two-fer.” 

It gets teachers going into the public schools in Indiana helping underserved, 

underprivileged children, especially with remediation efforts in the summertime. I would like to 

see the university do even more with the public schools in South Bend. I hope to continue to 

encourage you to do that. Then the second part of this is, as the students graduate, the University of 

Notre Dame helps find schools in the South for these students to go teach in. They don't teach 

religion. They cannot teach religion. They go to teach math and science, and fill in the gaps. They 

would have no teachers in most of these schools if it were not for this program. 

 So we are very excited about what Father Scully has done, and what the University of Notre 

Dame has done. For every dollar that we give in government money, I think Father Scully and the 

University of Notre Dame raises eight or nine dollars to match and exceed that. As I said before, 

when you talk to the former heads of AmeriCorps, National Corps, National Service, every one of 

them would say, before I could even get it out of my mouth, “This is one of the outstanding 

programs in the country.” 

 So, Father Scully, thanks for being here to talk about this program and all of the good things 

that you are doing with this, and maybe how expanding on President Bush's efforts will further 

expand on this idea at the university and in other places. Thank you again. 
16

Father Scully. Thank you, Congressman. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Thank you and welcome. 

Ms. Bottomley. 

STATEMENT OF MARTHA JANE BOTTOMLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

VOLUNTEER MUSKEGON, MUSKEGON, MI 

I would like to thank Chairman Hoekstra, and say hello to Ranking Member Roemer, and 

the rest of the Members of this Committee for the opportunity to speak to you today. As you know, 

my name is Martha Bottomley. I am the Executive Director of Volunteer Muskegon, which is a 

volunteer center in Muskegon, Michigan, on the shores of beautiful Lake Michigan. We are a 

county of approximately 170,000 diverse citizens.

Volunteer Muskegon is one of 34 volunteer centers in the state of Michigan. We also are 

part of 470 volunteer centers through the National Network of Volunteer Centers, and that network 

partners with the Points of Light Foundation. When we aggregate all of our numbers, we connect 

over 2.6 million volunteers, and these are volunteers that are the traditional non-stipend volunteers 

with opportunities to serve their community. When you put a dollar value on this, it adds up to 

over $7.5 billion of volunteer efforts that are given to the local communities. 

 Each year in the state of Michigan alone, we generate over 50,000 volunteers, who are 

connected with meaningful, productive, volunteer experiences in their local communities. 

Volunteers exist to address identified needs in those American communities. These needs vary 

from community-to-community, but very often they are tutoring, or community clean up. In the 

state of Michigan with all of our beautiful lakes, we do lots of beach sweeps and we work in 

neighborhoods to beautify them. We help at soup kitchens, with housing, tutoring, mentoring and 

many, many other activities. 

 The overriding goal in any volunteer center is to make each and every community a 

stronger, better place to live, and to raise your family. With the extremely large, extremely tight 

budgetary concerns, it is really important that a combination of federal, state, and local dollars go 

in to continue to support volunteer centers. It takes money to recruit volunteers, and to perform 

security checks, and to place and recognize our volunteers. In the volunteer field, we often say 

volunteers are not really free because you have to do all of those things. 

 Today, however, I would like to talk to you about the reauthorization and how I really feel 

very passionate about this. The best way for me to do that is to tell you my story. I started out as 

an AmeriCorps member in 1994. I am very proud to have been part of the first class of 

AmeriCorps. I was single, had raised my children, and I was ready for all of the doors that were to 

open to me. I have learned that National Service programs are all about opening doors for people. 
17

 We have come a long way in Muskegon, Michigan, with our volunteer center. We started 

out as a result of a Michigan initiative from the W.K. Kellogg Foundation that wanted to study 

volunteerism in our state. After the task force was assembled, and we recognized that what we had 

to do was to institute a volunteer center, it was created and that's when Volunteer Muskegon was 

born in 1996. I was already working, as I said, as an AmeriCorps member with Youth Volunteer 

Corps. Part of that was to include the Youth Volunteer Corps as part of the Volunteer Center. So 

we have an extremely strong youth component in our center. 

 In 1998, we were given the opportunity to serve the other end of the age spectrum, the 

Retired Senior Volunteer Program (RSVP). Through the Points of Light Foundation, we were 

given one of three RSVPs that were awarded by the corporation. That allowed our center to 

expand, and develop, and move out of the United Way, where we had been housed. We are a 

United Way agency, so we do receive some funds from that source for our Youth Volunteer Corps. 

But the RSVP has really enabled us to grow and to serve that senior population. Some of the things 

that they do are what most volunteers do. 

 We have lots of tutors in the Muskegon schools. We also have started a truancy program 

with RSVP in collaboration with Muskegon public schools, where the seniors are actually 

patrollers, but the collaboration is with the city, police department, with the county prosecutors, 

with 911, and with juvenile court. What we are trying to do is address the issue that I think is 

prevalent in many, many urban areas, and that is truancy. We want to keep our kids in school in 

Muskegon, so that they are better educated. 

 RSVP currently had approximately 75 host sites where we place volunteers, and they do 

such things as work for the Red Cross, the local hospital, animal shelters, Habitat for Humanity, 

and lots and lots of tutoring in our schools. They work for many other nonprofit agencies in a 

variety of activities. 

 While Volunteer Muskegon had AmeriCorps members through the Youth Volunteer Corps 

of America, we have also had Learn and Serve grants, which have been very, very important to our 

youth program. But currently we are the host site for our state AmeriCorps team through the 

Michigan Community Service Commission. It was really important for us to put together a 

collaboration of local entities to be able to meet the mandate set down by our state commission. 

But we have done that, and it has worked really well for us locally. 

 We have AmeriCorps members who are stationed in schools, some in the after school 

programs, some all day. We have some at municipalities, and other nonprofit agencies, but they all 

do service learning, and they all work with youth. So that is what makes up our Volunteer Center. 

 When President Bush gave his State of the Union Address, I was very curious and 

interested. My ears really perked up, I think like most volunteer center directors, with his call to 

service. I think that is a really critical initiative that is happening, and I am thrilled for the national 

attention. However, I think it is going to take some federal funds. I would beg Congress not to 

create a new bureaucracy, but rather to use the existing volunteer center network and the Points of 

Light. They have set up benchmarks that we all must adhere to, and so there is a standard already 
18

in place. 

 I would encourage Congress also, if they were so disposed, to pass legislation to give 

money to create new volunteer centers, so that we have far more than 470 to reach across this great 

nation. Right now, I believe there are approximately 75 to 80 percent, something like that, that are 

within a geographical vicinity to a volunteer center. It would be wonderful if that would reach 100 

percent.

 Again, I want to thank Congressman Hoekstra for this opportunity. I really do feel 

passionate about Corporation for National Service, and what it can do for citizens of all ages, 

whether it is AmeriCorps, VISTA, or the SeniorCorps. I never had the privilege of being a Peace 

Corps member, but AmeriCorps comes very close. Thank you very much. 

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF MARTHA JANE BOTTOMLEY, EXECUTIVE 

DIRECTOR, VOLUNTEER MUSKEGON, MUSKEGON, MI - SEE APPENDIX F 

Chairman Hoekstra. Thank you. 

Father Scully. 

STATEMENT OF REVEREND TIMOTHY R. SCULLY, C.S.C., EXECUTIVE 

VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME, NOTRE DAME, IN 

Thank you Chairman and Congressmen, for welcoming us this morning. It’s nice to be 

sharing a table with an almost neighboring Congressional district. 

 You know, our partnership with the Corporation for National Service began when President 

Clinton visited our campus right at the outset of his first term, and he announced his vision for a 

Corporation for National Service. 

 I just want to quote a sentence or two from President Clinton on our campus, because it 

really did strike a cord, and it began our involvement. He said, “If we truly believe that children 

are God's most precious creation, then surely we owe every child born in the United States the 

chance to make the most of his or her potential, not only because this is essential for our economic 

success, but because providing opportunity is how we fulfill our obligations to each other, and the 

moral principles we honor.” 

 We began the ACE program, frankly, in response to that invitation. We had closed our 

school of education, Chairman, in the 1970s because we didn't feel as a university that we were 

contributing distinctively to serving America's neediest kids. We also didn't feel that the products 

of our school of education were performing in the way that America's school children required. 
19

 With President Clinton's initiative, we approached the Corporation for National Service in 

its initial grant making round, and we ended up receiving what was called a demonstration grant. 

There were 465 colleges and universities that applied, and we were one of 11 chosen. 

Chairman Hoekstra. I hate to tell you this, but one of your constituents does not like your 

testimony. 

[Laughter.]

And I have no doubt that it is a future Notre Dame student that is crying out there. But 

those are future tuition dollars and we have to respect them. 

[Laughter.]

In any case, ten years later, President and Mrs. Bush came to our campus last spring and 

celebrated with the ACE program, our growth, our commitment to service, and our commitment to 

excellence. So I want to just join my colleague here from Michigan in thanking you, and thanking 

our public servants in both parties for recognizing the importance of this contribution. 

 Let me just take a couple of minutes to highlight why this has been important to Notre 

Dame, and I hope to the communities we serve. 

 In '93, when we began our program, we placed 40 volunteer teachers who were receiving 

master degree level training in four southern states. We chose those states because our Bishops' 

conference identified those states as the most underserved in our systems. Eight years later, we 

have about 165 teachers in 90 schools in 14 states, and 110 schools next year. We have also 

replicated the program in 10 other institutions, not all Catholic. This replication has allowed us to 

provide another 250 AmeriCorps teachers through other institutions to another 16 states. So this 

has been just an enormous contribution I think of the AmeriCorps program to higher education, not 

just Notre Dame, but to 11 other institutions. 

 What kind of schools do we serve? Well, we serve poor schools mostly, kids that don't 

have particularly strong access to good teachers. That is kind of the magic of this. Of the 150 

schools where we have served, just about all of them are Title I federally funded schools. Over 60 

percent are almost exclusively African-American or Hispanic schools. 

This year, just to give you an example, we will be serving in a new school. We continually 

try to expand our scope of service. We will have two Notre Dame teachers at San Xavier Mission 

School, which is the Tohono O'odham Nation. That is the second largest Native American 

reservation in the United States. It is about 12 miles south of Tucson. There are 163 kids there that 

don't have particularly strong teachers, quite honestly; 80 percent of them qualify for free lunches. 

So we have been able to expand pretty dramatically over the last couple of years. 

 We had 350 applicants to fill about 75 or 80 spots. So we are able to be pretty darn 

aggressive, in terms of the kind of people we want in classrooms. About 10 percent of Notre 

Dame's graduating class applies to become Catholic school teachers in this program, which is kind 
20

of an extraordinary thing. 

 Of those 350 applicants, about 80 come from different universities. Again, not everybody 

is Catholic, but everybody shares a commitment to serve the poor in public and Catholic schools.

The average GPA of our participants last year coming from Ivy League schools, or even Boston 

College, is 3.44. That “ain't” bad. I know that grade inflation has not hit Boston College, so we are 

pretty pleased about that statistic. 

 Tim Roemer, our Congressman, inspired us to move beyond the model that we had selected 

by taking only young people and expand it to people who were moving to the second part of their 

careers. He has done that, as you know, and led that effort for military people in a second career, a 

second vocation. So we did that in South Bend, and I am happy to say that that program has grown 

as well. We had seven applicants to last year's program. This year we have 33 applicants, so that 

over time our community in South Bend is going to be enriched by this program, which is really a 

national program as well. 

 We are pretty results-driven. We have taught about 45,000 elementary and secondary 

school students in 150 schools. We don't have your numbers of 2.5 million. I was pretty 

astonished by that. I feel kind of puny, frankly, next to what you shared, Martha. 

 The kids that we recruit to teach in schools come from pretty diverse backgrounds. One of 

the reasons we are able to have over 20 percent of our teachers from traditionally underrepresented 

groups in education is because of the AmeriCorps Education Award. Our kids, as you know, 

graduate from a place like Notre Dame and other places that are prestigious schools with some debt 

burden. This program allows them to relieve that debt burden and to continue in teaching. 

 Let me tell you very briefly about two kids who have joined our ACE program for this year. 

Tiffany Carter is a 2000 graduate from Western Washington University. She enrolled in officer 

candidate school, and in the course of her training she suffered two broken feet. She was unable to 

continue in the armed services, so she decided to apply for the ACE program. Tiffany is just going 

to be an unbelievable role model as an African-American teacher in a predominantly AfricanAmerican school in inner city Atlanta. Benny Guilbeaux is in our newest ACE class also. He is a 

three-year starter on Notre Dame's football team. And, as an ordained Baptist deacon, he will be a 

terrific Catholic school teacher, we feel, in South Central Los Angeles, again, in an AfricanAmerican school system. 

 Let me just close by saying that one of the most surprising things that has developed, is I 

did not expect that the number of young people who entered our volunteer service program for two 

years would continue in teaching. After eight years, 77 percent of our kids who have graduated, 

over 500 graduates, have remained in teaching, and almost half of them have migrated to public 

schools.

 I know Tim has been encouraging us to move our resources to public schools, and this is 

one way they do. It is actually not bad that our kids get their start in teaching in private schools.

Frankly, the learning experience is often a little more controlled and they move into becoming 
21

some of the nation's strongest teachers. So, with that, let me just say that what Tim suggested is 

correct. It is only too correct.

I wish we did not have to leverage quite so many private dollars, Chairman Hoekstra, as we 

do for your federal dollars. We get about three or four percent of our total budget from the 

Corporation at $60,000, not bad. Believe me, I want it. You know, we have moved from $1,000 

per member to now $400 per member, and I hope in your reauthorization you won't move that too 

much further down because we really could use the support. We use that money to train our 

teachers. We don't use that money to put it into private schools. 

 I might just close by saying that if you can eliminate the taxability of this award; I think that 

would be absolutely terrific for our participants. And finally, let me just say that this notion of 

adjusting the education award for inflation would also be tremendously helpful to all of us.

Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here. 

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF REVEREND TIMOTHY R. SCULLY, C.S.C., 

EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME, NOTRE 

DAME, IN - SEE APPENDIX G 

Chairman Hoekstra. Thank you for being here. I think there is a strong sentiment within the 

Subcommittee to remove the tax deductibility Thursday morning. 

Father Scully. Wonderful, that is wonderful. 

Chairman Hoekstra. The question and the problem is it is not within our jurisdiction. We have to 

go to our friends over at Ways and Means, and we are hoping that we can get support for that, so 

that is an important ingredient. 

 Obviously, if we get that feature in, that would be a huge step forward in just getting the 

award to catch up to the inflation over the last seven or eight years. I don't necessarily see us going 

to the indexing route, but there will be some consideration perhaps for increasing the award, and 

some structure to evaluate that on a regular basis. 

Father Scully. Thank you. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Good, thanks, and it was very good input. 

 The other thing that we are talking about, Ms. Bottomley, I think you mentioned it in your 

written testimony, is the impact of the transferability of the award for AmeriCorps volunteers. I 

think there are two kinds of transferability. The White House in the principles that they have 

outlined has indicated that perhaps for AmeriCorps volunteers it could be used for things other than 

educational purposes somewhere down the line, and that for senior citizens it could be used to 
22

transfer to someone else. 

 Any additional comments that you would like to make on that? 

Ms. Bottomley. Well, I think that would be a wonderful step. As an AmeriCorps member, who 

already had my degree, I would love, for instance, to have been able to transfer my Ed Award to 

one of my children, who are still struggling to pay off their college loans. 

 I know that that is a concern, specifically of an older AmeriCorps member. I also think the 

issue of getting some kind of Ed Award for the SeniorCorps has been talked about and it would be 

wonderful, if they could transfer it to a child, grandchild, or even another deserving person that 

they are working with. It would be a really, really wonderful recruitment tool, quite honestly. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Right. 

Father Scully, give me the finances of the ACE program, not the global, okay. But for one 

of the students that you select, what happens to their finances? What are the private/Notre Dame 

dollars, and what are the Federal Government dollars? 

Father Scully. Sure. Well, it is split. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Okay. 

Father Scully. Once we accept an applicant into our program as a participant, we commit 

ourselves for the next two years to be responsible for the full expenses of that participant's 

livelihood. So we pay for their transportation to campus, we pay for their housing, their food. 

Notre Dame underwrites, as a gift to the program, a full tuition waiver for a master's degree in 

education. Notre Dame also underwrites the housing piece, does not charge the program for that. 

That is an in-kind contribution of the university to the program. 

 The schools where the young people will be teaching pay a fee, and that fee is based on the 

average salary of their first year student, and then discounted. So we receive fees from some of our 

schools, frankly, in central Louisiana, of maybe $500 per participant. But in some areas of Los 

Angeles, where wages tend to be higher, we can receive a fee from a school of up to $6,000. Those 

school fees constitute about 70 percent of our budget. There are about 160 school fees. 

 As you know, the young people receive two educational awards. We ask for a contribution 

of one of those two awards towards the cost of the master's degree in education. So they keep one, 

and they donate the second. If they decide to stay in teaching beyond their second year, and they 

are having pressure because teachers don't make a lot of money, as you know, we will often set 

aside a reserve pool for those folks. 

 We use our private money to begin paying down those debts as well to provide an incentive 

for our young people to stay in education. That is basically how the program works. We also, I 

should just add, are pretty aggressive at Notre Dame about raising private support for what we are 

trying to do. This program has generated about a $10 million endowment. That provides some 
23

money for our summer programs. And, frankly, even with the amounts that I mentioned to you, we 

still are running a little bit short. We want some things; we want some money available for new 

ideas.

 We just started a principal leadership program. It is going to be a 16-month program over 

two summers at Notre Dame, and our young people will receive a licensure as a principal in the 

state of Indiana. The nice thing about this, Congressman, is that we will be able to supply the 

opportunity to become school leaders for the 500 and 600 kids we have. That is going to run a 

$200,000 a year deficit. The way we work it is we just go to our donor base and say, “Hey, we 

need a couple of million dollars,” and they often come forward with it. 

Chairman Hoekstra. That is what we do with our campaigns too, but it is not quite that easy. 

Father Scully. Well, happily, we don't have the limits you do. 

Chairman Hoekstra. That is true. 

Mr. Roemer. Either that or Peter has exceeded them. 

Chairman Hoekstra. All right. We have three votes. My time is completed. We will go to Mr. 

Roemer and Mr. Scott. 

Mr. Roemer. Let me quickly go to mine, so Mr. Scott can get his questions in as well too. Thank 

you so much for this very helpful testimony, and the extraordinary job that you are both doing. 

Ms. Bottomley, you said in your written testimony, and you mentioned it very briefly in 

your oral testimony, about how important Learn and Serve dollars were to initially get your 

program going. I think you used them for the first six years or so? 

Ms. Bottomley. Yes, we received Learn and Serve dollars for six years for a camp project that 

Congressman Hoekstra has visited in Muskegon. 

Mr. Roemer. Oh, good to hear he is getting around, huh? 

Ms. Bottomley. Yes, he has. 

Mr. Roemer. Good. 

Ms. Bottomley. The United Way funds it now, but without the Learn and Serve dollars, we could 

never have gotten it off the ground. We start working with children at eight years of age, and begin 

to teach them service. 

 The wonderful thing is that we have been doing this long enough now that the campers 

become our Youth Volunteer Corps members. And now our Youth Volunteer Corps members are 

becoming AmeriCorps members. So we know that to really get people started in this whole idea of 
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service, you must start very young. 

 We have done some other projects that have been started with Learn and Serve dollars. So I 

really see that as a very essential part of the corporation program. 

Mr. Roemer. I agree with you. I think Learn and Serve is a key component in starting this service 

idea at an early age. We are hopeful about working with the Administration to get that program a 

higher priority in restoring their proposal. 

 Do you agree with Father Scully on removing the taxability of the awards as well, too? 

Ms. Bottomley. Absolutely. That is probably one of the biggest gripes that AmeriCorps members 

have.

Mr. Roemer. We get the e-mails, and the letters. I like it. I like your style. I agree with you, too. 

Father Scully, thank you again for your testimony. You have been innovative with this 

program. You have had some creative ideas that go into different areas to tap resources in 

AmeriCorps. 

What do you think about President Bush's new idea of expanding AmeriCorps? How do you 

see this affecting the ACE program? How do you see this expanding the Notre Dame program? 

You mentioned the principal leadership program idea. What other things are you thinking about? 

And, within the scope of the outline of the President's program, are you already formulating some 

ideas as to how this might help further improve maybe one of the best National Service programs 

we have out there? 

Father Scully. Well, you know, I have to confess, Congressman, I am not that familiar with the 

President's program suggestions. I apologize for that.

I can say that one of the things I get a little concerned about from my own perspective is 

that Notre Dame is a national university. And, therefore, the preservation of some core resources at 

the federal level is important for a school like us because our students come from every one of the 

50 states, and another 80 nations outside of the United States. We, like a number of other schools, 

will want to serve the communities from which our constituents come. And, increasingly, of 

course, I see program dollars appropriately moving to state and local control. I think that is 

wonderful. I just hope that the Congress won't ultimately eliminate national programs like Teach 

for America that are national in scope. So that is the one thing that I am concerned about. 

Mr. Roemer. I appreciate that, and that is very helpful.

Has Notre Dame tapped into the competitive grant part of AmeriCorps as well? Do you 

know the funding stream that is provided through competitive grants that go out to some of these 

stellar programs? I believe you have received grants. 
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Father Scully. We have received a couple of grants from AmeriCorps to sponsor conferences on 

teacher training. We began in one cul-de-sac, Congressman, with very generous funding. And, as I 

have mentioned in my testimony, it has been shrinking a bit. But, you know, we are always 

looking to get as much support as we can for what we are trying to do. 

 We do see the federal portion of our program shrinking, and I know that that is delightful 

from your point of view. We would just like to make sure it does not shrink to de minimis 

proportions.

Mr. Roemer. Well, we want to make sure that the federal dollars continue to leverage your 

program and support one of the best programs out there. Maybe that is something the Chairman 

and I can work on, to see ways that we can further incentivize Notre Dame to implement some of 

these new ideas that grow wonderful teachers, and now principals, and maybe some other ideas as 

well, too. We would talk more to you. 

 I know Congressman Scott wants to ask a couple of questions before we have a vote. I have 

to take off early to get to this vote on time along with two aides that will be advising me all the way 

over.

Thank you again. 

Father Scully. God bless you. 

Mr. Roemer. Thank you so much. 

Father Scully. God bless you and thank you for your help. 

Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you both for testifying. 

Ms. Bottomley, as I understand your testimony, you used the AmeriCorps volunteers to 

help coordinate other volunteers? 

Ms. Bottomley. Yes, they work with youth. Last year alone, the AmeriCorps team that we have in 

Muskegon reached 900 young people, and those 900 young people gave 24,000 hours of service. 

Mr. Scott. And if you had more AmeriCorps staff could you coordinate more volunteers? 

Ms. Bottomley. Sure. 

Mr. Scott. Is there any limit to the number of people you could use? 

Ms. Bottomley. The limit comes in how much local matching dollars you can raise.

Unfortunately, it always seems to come down to dollars. 

Mr. Scott. How many do you have now? 
26

Ms. Bottomley. We have, approximately, a team of 15 that serve Muskegon. 

Mr. Scott. Okay.

Father Scully, Congressman Roemer mentioned religion. Your program doesn't need to 

teach religion in order to be successful, does it? 

Father Scully. That is correct. Our teachers do not receive any AmeriCorps funding for teaching 

religion.

Mr. Scott. Okay. Now you mentioned a reduction of $1,000 to $400. What was that? Could you 

go over that again? 

Father Scully. Yes. AmeriCorps, in an effort to encourage private leverage, has moved the 

administrative fee, which we are able to capture, for each participant in our program. It scaled it 

back in our program, which is Learn and Serve America, which is an education awards only 

program, from $1,000 down to $600, and now to $400 per participant. 

 That has made it pretty difficult for us to provide the kind of training that we need to 

provide to our teachers. Sixty thousand dollars a summer does not come near enough to providing 

the money we need to get the national faculty. We recruit faculty, the best teachers, practitioners, 

and the best scholars from all over the country, to teach our teachers how to teach, so we end up 

having to scramble quite a bit for private dollars to fill in that difference. 

Mr. Scott. Was $1,000 enough? 

Father Scully. Yes, $1,000 was terrific, yes. “Enough” is a relative term, Congressman. 

Mr. Scott. As I understand the use of the student educational grant, it can be used to pay off 

student loans instead of going to more college? 

Father Scully. That is correct. 

Mr. Scott. And how many people use it to pay off student loans, as opposed to achieve more 

education? 

Father Scully. I have data.

Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to thank you again for coming and testifying. 

Father Scully. Thank you, Congressman. 

Chairman Hoekstra. Great, thank you.
27

We want to thank the witnesses for being here, for telling the personal stories of your 

organizations back in Indiana, and in Muskegon, Michigan.

Like I said, Tim and I really believe that we can put this on a fast track. We can get this 

done, and there will be no uncertainty about the direction and the future of the Corporation for 

National and Community Service. We want to get this done. 

Father Scully. Wonderful, Congressman. 

Chairman Hoekstra. And so, if there is no additional business before the Subcommittee today, the 

Subcommittee will stand adjourned. 

Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned 
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Table of Indexes 

Chairman Hoekstra, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 26, 27 

Father Scully, 16, 18, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 

Mr. Ford, 12, 13 

Mr. Roemer, 2, 4, 6, 14, 15, 23, 24, 25 

Mr. Scott, 2, 25, 26 

Mr. Shays, 13, 14 

Ms. Bottomley, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26