ACCESS TO HIGHER EDUCATION

FOR LOW-INCOME STUDENTS:

A REVIEW OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON 

STUDENT FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE REPORT

HEARING

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND 

THE WORKFORCE 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JULY 16, 2002 

Serial No. 107-71 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Education 

and the Workforce

82-139 pdf 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office 

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 

 Fax: (202) 512-2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402-0001
ii

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE 

JOHN A. BOEHNER, Ohio, Chairman 

THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin GEORGE MILLER, California 

MARGE ROUKEMA, New Jersey DALE E. KILDEE, Michigan 

CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina MAJOR R. OWENS, New York 

PETER HOEKSTRA, Michigan DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey 

HOWARD P. “BUCK” McKEON, California PATSY MINK, Hawaii 

MICHAEL N. CASTLE, Delaware ROBERT E. ANDREWS, New Jersey 

SAM JOHNSON, Texas TIM ROEMER, Indiana 

JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania ROBERT C. “BOBBY” SCOTT, Virginia 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina LYNN C. WOOLSEY, California 

MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana LYNN N. RIVERS, Michigan 

CHARLIE W. NORWOOD, JR., Georgia RUBEN HINOJOSA, Texas 

BOB SCHAFFER, Colorado CAROLYN McCARTHY, New York 

FRED UPTON, Michigan JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts 

VAN HILLEARY, Tennessee RON KIND, Wisconsin 

VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan LORETTA SANCHEZ, California 

THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado HAROLD E. FORD, JR., Tennessee 

JIM DeMINT, South Carolina DENNIS KUCINICH, Ohio 

JOHNNY ISAKSON, Georgia DAVID WU, Oregon 

BOB GOODLATTE, Virginia RUSH D. HOLT, New Jersey 

JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois HILDA L. SOLIS, California 

TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania SUSAN DAVIS, California 

PATRICK J. TIBERI, Ohio BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota 

RIC KELLER, Florida 

TOM OSBORNE, Nebraska 

JOHN ABNEY CULBERSON, Texas 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

 Paula Nowakowski, Chief of Staff 

 John Lawrence, Minority Staff Director 
iii

TABLE OF CONTENTS 

TABLE OF CONTENTS................................................................................................................. i 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHN BOEHNER, COMMITTEE ON 

EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

WASHINGTON, D.C..................................................................................................................... 1 

OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MINORITY MEMBER, REPRESENTATIVE 

GEORGE MILLER, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C.......................................................... 4 

STATEMENT OF DR. JULIET GARCIA, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT 

BROWNSVILLE AND TEXAS SOUTHMOST COLLEGE, BROWNSVILLE, TEXAS AND 

CHAIRPERSON, ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON STUDENT FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, 

WASHINGTON, D.C..................................................................................................................... 6 

STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY A.R. LEWIS, PRESIDENT, PAINE COLLEGE, AUGUSTA, 

GEORGIA ...................................................................................................................................... 8 

STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE E. GLADIEUX, EDUCATION AND PUBLIC POLICY 

CONSULTANT, POTOMAC FALLS, VIRGINIA..................................................................... 10 

STATEMENT OF ELIZABETH SENGKHAMMEE, STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF 

WISCONSIN AT MILWAUKEE, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN AND MEMBER, U.S. 

STUDENT ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D.C................................................................... 12 

APPENDIX A -- OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHN BOEHNER, 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. ........................................................................... 45 

APPENDIX B -- STATEMENT OF DR. JULIET GARCIA, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF 

TEXAS AT BROWNSVILLE AND TEXAS SOUTHMOST COLLEGE, BROWNSVILLE, 

TEXAS AND CHAIRPERSON, ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON STUDENT FINANCIAL 

ASSISTANCE, WASHINGTON, D.C......................................................................................... 51 

APPENDIX C -- STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY A.R. LEWIS, PRESIDENT, PAINE COLLEGE, 

AUGUSTA, GEORGIA ............................................................................................................... 57

APPENDIX D -- STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE E. GLADIEUX, EDUCATION AND 

PUBLIC POLICY CONSULTANT, POTOMAC FALLS, VIRGINIA ...................................... 67 

APPENDIX E -- STATEMENT OF ELIZABETH SENGKHAMMEE, STUDENT, 

UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN AT MILWAUKEE, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN AND 

MEMBER, U.S. STUDENT ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D.C ....................................... 89 
iv

APPENDIX F -- OPENING STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE HOWARD P. “BUCK” 

MCKEON, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. ........................................................................... 99 

APPENDIX G -- PELL GRANT HISTORY AND TUITION AND FEES CHARGED BY 

COLLEGE BOARD REGION CHARTS, REFERRED TO BY REPRESENTATIVE 

HOWARD P. “BUCK” MCKEON, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE 

WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. ................. 107 

APPENDIX H -- OPENING STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE RUBEN HINOJOSA, 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. ......................................................................... 111 

APPENDIX I -- SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD, WRITTEN STATEMENT OF 

REPRESENTATIVE HAROLD FORD, JR., COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE 

WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. ................. 115 

APPENDIX J -- SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD, WRITTEN STATEMENT OF 

REPRESENTATIVE HILDA SOLIS, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE 

WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. ................. 119 

Table of Indexes.......................................................................................................................... 122 
1

HEARING ON ACCESS TO HIGHER EDUCATION 

FOR LOW-INCOME STUDENTS: A REVIEW OF 

THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON STUDENT 

FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE REPORT 

_______________________________________________________

TUESDAY, JULY 16, 2002 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:48 a.m., in Room 2175, Rayburn House Office 

Building, Hon. John A. Boehner [chairman of the committee] presiding. 

 Present: Representatives Boehner, McKeon, Norwood, Ehlers, Tancredo, Isakson, Tiberi, 

Keller, Osborne, Wilson, Miller, Payne, Mink, Andrews, Scott, Woolsey, Rivers, Hinojosa, 

Sanchez, Kucinich, Wu, Holt, Solis, Davis, and McCollum. 

 Staff present: Alexa Callin, Communications Staff Assistant; George Conant, Professional 

Staff Member; Sally Lovejoy, Director of Education and Human Resources Policy; Patrick Lyden, 

Professional Staff Member; Deborah L. Samantar, Committee Clerk/Intern Coordinator; Jo-Marie 

St. Martin, General Counsel; Holli Traud, Legislative Assistant; Heather Valentine, Press 

Secretary; John Lawrence, Minority Chief of Staff; Mark Zuckerman, Minority Counsel; James 

Kvaal, Minority Legislative Staff; Alex Nock, Minority Legislative Staff; Suzanne Palmer, 

Minority Legislative Staff; Maggie McDow, Minority Legislative Staff; Joe Novotny, Minority 

Legislative Staff/Clerk; Dan Rawlins, Minority Legislative Associate; and Michele Varnhagen, 

Minority Legislative Staff. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHN BOEHNER, COMMITTEE 

ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Chairman Boehner. The Committee on Education and the Workforce will come to order. 
2

 I apologize for the delay in the beginning of our hearing this morning. We are meeting 

today to hear testimony on the report on Access to Higher Education for Low-Income Students, 

which was issued by the Advisory Committee on Student Financial Assistance. 

 Under committee rule 12(b), opening statements are limited to the chairman and ranking 

minority member of the committee. Therefore, if other members have written statements, they will 

be included in the hearing record. 

 And, with that, I ask unanimous consent for the hearing record to remain open for 14 days 

to allow member statements and other extraneous material referenced during today's hearing to be 

submitted for the official hearing record. Without objection, so ordered. 

 I want to welcome our witnesses here today and thank them for taking the time to come 

before the committee to speak on a very important topic, access to higher education for students of 

this country, specifically low- and moderate-income students, and what barriers may be before 

them. 

 The basis for this hearing is the report recently released by the Advisory Committee on 

Student Financial Assistance, which was entitled, ``Empty Promises: The Myth of College Access 

in America.'' This report is a follow-up to the report published in February of 2001 entitled 

``Access Denied.'' 

 Just the titles of these reports should give us reason to pause. Access denied and the myth 

of college access is not the only message we want to send. This is not the message we want to send 

to the citizens of our country. There is no more important issue than the education of our children, 

and providing them an avenue to a better life. 

 This Congress and this administration have a firm commitment to education. Our 

commitment is not just within the higher education financial aid programs, but also in elementary 

and secondary schools to provide a quality education of our children that prepares them to enter 

college or other post-secondary endeavors. 

 There are many programs available now to assist low- and moderate-income students to 

meet their goals. However, the Advisory Committee's report indicates that federal aid alone is not 

enough. The question becomes: What else should we in Congress do to ensure access and open 

the doors to higher education to all students? 

 The question should also be: What can colleges, universities, and others do to assist 

increasing access as well? There has been a substantial increase in college costs over time, which 

simply adds to the unmet need and financial barriers that are outlined in this report. 

 According to the College Board, over the 10-year period ending in 2001, after adjusting for 

inflation, average public four-year college tuition and fees rose 40 percent, with a 33 percent 

increase over the same period at private four-year colleges. 
3

 It is of great concern to me that, at its maximum, the annual $4,000 Pell Grant, the highest 

maximum award in the program's history, along with other available aid, is not enough to allow a 

low-income student to cover the cost in tuition and fees at a public four-year college. 

 This Advisory Committee's report states that, and I will quote, ``on average, annual unmet 

need for low income families at a four-year public college has risen to about $3800.'' Unmet need, 

as I understand it, is the cost of college not covered by expected family contribution or student aid, 

including work and loans. 

 The report also indicates that students from low-income families have reservations about 

borrowing funds through student loans. And while I can certainly understand that, and some 30 

years ago, I had the same reluctance, it is important to note that according to the College Board, 

bachelor's degree recipients earn 80 percent more on average than those with a high school 

diploma. 

 And over a lifetime, the gap in earning potential between the high school diploma and the 

B.A. degree or higher exceeds $1 million. And with the work done in 1998, during the 

reauthorization, and with the 2003 interest rate fix, interest rates have never been lower for student 

loans. And while I do not encourage the accumulation of vast amounts of debt, the Federal Student 

Loan Program is a low cost program that has assisted many students in completing their education. 

 It is clear that access to higher education involves more than just financial aid. It is also 

clear that it will take the commitment of many, including the federal government, state 

government, institutions, and even the private sector, to open the doors of higher education to all 

who prepare themselves and want to attend. 

 It is important to discuss all of the issues that affect students and their access to higher 

education. And I am looking forward to the testimony of our witnesses, so we may identify 

specific strategies and proposals that can be reviewed to ensure access to higher education for all 

students, and to better understand what students go through in making decisions regarding higher 

education.

 As this committee prepares for the reauthorization of the Higher Education Act next year, 

this information will help lay the groundwork in the development of specific strategies to increase 

student access to higher education. 

 With that, I would like to yield to my friend and colleague, Mr. Miller, from California. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHN BOEHNER, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. – 

SEE APPENDIX A 
4

OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MINORITY MEMBER, 

REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE MILLER, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 

AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Mr. Miller. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for having this hearing. I think it is 

important, and the subject matter is of great importance. 

 You have outlined the issues that we need to be concerned with and I will not repeat them, 

other than to say we certainly must be concerned about the shortfall of students who are fully 

qualified for college but do not enroll. And a significant number of those apparently do not enroll 

because of financial barriers. And even those who enroll, as you noted, suffer a shortfall that must 

be overcome in some other fashion. 

 Obviously, our obligation here is to make sure that we can make those financial barriers less 

foreboding to those students and to their families, but recognize that as we try to hold on to making 

sure that there is sufficient funding for the Pell Grant Program this year, that there is sufficient 

funding for the TRIO and the Gear Up Programs, and programs such as that, that provide students 

the ability to navigate what sometimes looks to be a very complicated system, both with respect to 

applications and to financial assistance that we make every effort to make sure that those programs 

are properly funded. 

 As you pointed out, we are all aware of what this can mean over the lifetime of an 

individual who is able to attend two or more years of college for themselves and for their families 

in their ability to acquire skills later in life. 

 So I look forward to the hearing and to what the witnesses have to say. And again, thank 

you for holding the hearing. 

Chairman Boehner. Let me recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Norwood, to introduce 

one of our witnesses this morning. 

Mr. Norwood. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate you allowing me to speak out of 

turn. We have a very important EPA hearing going on at the same time. But I wanted to have this 

opportunity, Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen of the committee, to introduce to you Dr. 

Shirley Lewis. 

 I think many of you may already know her. Shirley is president of Paine College in 

Augusta, Georgia. When Dr. Lewis assumed her position on July 1, 1994, she became the first 

woman president since the college's founding in 1882. 

Dr. Lewis earned her bachelor's and master's degree from Berkeley and her Ph.D. in 

education from Stanford University. Dr. Lewis has also served as Assistant General Secretary of 

the Black College Fund of the United Methodist Church in Nashville, Tennessee. And in that role, 
5

she was responsible for raising, and managing, and promoting the Black College Fund, which 

supports 11 United Methodist-related historically black colleges and universities. 

 Now, as you might expect, Shirley has served in a number of ways in her professional life. 

She has been a researcher and a teacher/trainer. She has taught at a number of colleges and 

universities, including George Peabody College, Vanderbilt University, and Meharry Medical 

College. She has authored numerous articles and research memoranda on higher education. 

 But folks around home know Shirley is someone who is constantly serving our community.

She serves numerous civic, educational, and service organizations in and around Augusta, and is on 

the board of more than a few of those organizations. 

 I believe this is the third time that Dr. Lewis has testified before our committee. And I 

thank you for that, Shirley. As always, I commend her to my colleagues, and we certainly 

welcome you back to Washington again. 

 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Boehner. Thank you, Mr. Norwood. Ms. Lewis, nice to see you again. 

 Our first witness, though, today will be Dr. Juliet Garcia. She is the chairperson of the 

Advisory Committee on Student Financial Assistance, which was created by the higher education 

amendments of 1986 as an independent source of advice and council to Congress and the secretary 

of education regarding student financial aid policy. 

 She also serves as a board member of the White House Initiative on Educational Excellence 

for Hispanic Americans, as well as for the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. 

Dr. Garcia has 28 years of teaching and administrative experience in higher education, 

having served as president of the University of Texas at Brownsville since 1992. 

 We also have with us Mr. Lawrence Gladieux. He is an education and public policy 

consultant living in nearby Potomac Falls, Virginia. He previously served as the Executive 

Director of the Washington office of the College Board, and later as the organization's Executive 

Director for Policy Analysis. 

Mr. Gladieux has testified before Congress and written widely regarding high school to 

college transition, equity, access, affordability, and the impact of technology on the delivery of 

higher education. 

Mr. Gladieux, glad you are here. 

 And lastly, we have Elizabeth Sengkhammee. She is a student in her senior year of study at 

the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. Her parents were born in Laos and came to the United 

States as refugees in 1979, as a result of the Hmong people's involvement in the Vietnam War. 
6

 After completing her studies in community education, she hopes to study in Thailand for a 

year and to attend law school. And as a first generation student, Ms. Sengkhammee will be 

testifying about the factors that influenced her decision to attend the University of Wisconsin in 

Milwaukee. 

 And with that, I would like to recognize Dr. Garcia. 

 You may begin your testimony. 

STATEMENT OF DR. JULIET GARCIA, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF 

TEXAS AT BROWNSVILLE AND TEXAS SOUTHMOST COLLEGE, 

BROWNSVILLE, TEXAS AND CHAIRPERSON, ADVISORY COMMITTEE 

ON STUDENT FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, WASHINGTON, D.C 

Ms. Garcia. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Miller, Mr. Hinojosa, and other distinguished 

members of the committee. I thank you for holding the hearing and for allowing us to focus a bit 

on this important issue. 

 My name is Juliet Garcia, and I am president of the University of Texas at Brownsville and 

chairperson of the Advisory Committee on Student Financial Assistance. I am a first generation 

college student, as well. 

 I am pleased to testify today on the major findings of the Advisory Committee's most recent 

report entitled, ``Empty Promises: The Myth of College Access in America.'' I will provide a 

summary of my written testimony and request that my entire statement be included in the record. 

 Most Americans believe that all students have the opportunity to earn a college degree, if 

only they provide rigorous hard work through elementary, junior high, and high school, and then 

that the path will be open for them to attend college. 

 Yet, our committee concludes that this year alone, due to record high financial barriers, 

nearly one-half of all college qualified low- and moderate-income high school students, that is, 

over 400,000 students that are academically prepared to attend a four-year college will be unable to 

do so, and that 170,000 of these students will attend no college at all. 

 Over this decade, that number increases then to 4.4 million of these high school students 

that will not attend four-year colleges, and 2 million that will attend no college at all. 

 For these students then, the promise of a college education is an empty one; and for our 

nation, the loss of the human capital will exact a serious economic and social toll for much of this 

century.

 Whether we recall the words of LBJ in 1965, or of Richard Nixon in 1970, who both 

believed and fought very hard so that ``no qualified student who wants to go to college should be 
7

barred by lack of money,'' our path should be clear today. Our nation invests in student aid in order 

to ensure that the opportunity to attend college and attain, at the minimum, a bachelor's degree does 

not depend on family income alone. 

 Nevertheless, the financial barriers to a college education have risen sharply due to shifts in 

policies and priorities at the federal, state, and institutional levels, resulting in a serious shortage of 

student aid, and in particular, need-based grant aid, as well as rising college tuition. 

 As a result, today students from low- and moderate-income families who graduate from 

high school fully prepared to attend a four-year college, confront daunting financial barriers with 

major implications for the students, and of course, for our nation. 

 For example, ``Empty Promises,'' our report, notes the following: 

 Families of low-income college qualified high school graduates face an annual unmet need 

of $3,800. These, as you said, Mr. Chairman, are college expenses that are not covered by student 

aid including work-study and student loans. And the shortage in grant aid requires that these 

families cover $7,500, which is two-thirds of the college expenses at public four-year colleges, and 

one-third of family income through work and borrowing. 

 Their peers now from moderate-income families face similar barriers, moderate income 

families including nurses, teachers, and faculty at our university. Their financial barriers prevent 

48 percent of college qualified low-income high school graduates from attending a four-year 

college, and 22 percent from attending any college at all within two years of graduation. 

 Peers from moderate-income families are hardly better off; 43 percent are unable to attend a 

four-year college, and 16 percent attend no college at all. These shocking annual losses at the 

national level, this year, over 400,000 qualified students, will be unable to attend a four-year 

college, will produce staggering, cumulative losses of 4.4 million college-qualified students unable 

to enroll in a four-year college, and 2 million who will then be denied access to any college at all 

by the end of this decade. 

 But as startling as these losses are, they are only the tip of the iceberg. Many more 

students, such as high school graduates, that don't meet the admission requirements of four-year 

colleges, who could pursue a bachelor's degree today at local community colleges first, are blocked 

from doing so, again, by prohibitive financial barriers. 

 Moreover, many students who gain access to a four-year or a community college find it 

increasingly difficult each year to stay in college as a result of these barriers. 

 I would be available to answer additional questions for you, and our staff director will 

provide additional technical response. But I would like to conclude with just one statement, if I 

might. 

 This is an issue that unites us all. It affects every ethnic and every racial group and every 

parent who dreams that their child should have had more opportunities than they did. It should not 
8

be our legacy that we were the ones to break that cycle that we believed otherwise. 

 Instead, what we are here to ask for you to do is to focus on a long-term strategy and 

partnership with states and with institutions. We have cracked open that door of access to higher 

education. What we must now do is fling it wide open. Thank you for your patience. 

STATEMENT OF DR. JULIET GARCIA, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT 

BROWNSVILLE AND TEXAS SOUTHMOST COLLEGE, BROWNSVILLE, TEXAS AND 

CHAIRPERSON, ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON STUDENT FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, 

WASHINGTON, D.C – SEE APPENDIX B 

Chairman Boehner. Dr. Garcia, thank you for your testimony. 

Ms. Lewis. 

STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY A.R. LEWIS, PRESIDENT, PAINE COLLEGE, 

AUGUSTA, GEORGIA 

Ms. Lewis. Good morning, Chairman Boehner, Mr. Miller, and members of the committee. I want 

to tell you what a pleasure it is for me to be here and share with you Paine College's view of the 

impact of the report, ``Empty Promises.'' 

 I have told you before, and I know you are familiar, that Paine College and the other 105 

historically black colleges and universities in this country, including the 39 UNCF colleges, have a 

marvelous legacy of achievement. 

 At Paine College, for example, we rejoice at having been founded in 1882, through a 

historical partnership of the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church and the Methodist Episcopal 

Church South, to create a school to produce preachers and teachers to address the needs of the 

newly freed persons. 

 Over the years, we have evolved into a fully accredited liberal arts institution serving 

business administration, education, humanities, social sciences, natural sciences, and mathematics. 

And we have carried on the original legacy of creating leaders to amazing heights. 

 The interesting thing about it is this is true with the other sister institutions under trying 

circumstances. For example, at Paine College, 90 percent of our students are financial aiddependent, and that is the case for the other schools, also. 

 We have a charming enrollment of 888 students, and we say, and I say, that we know each 

one personally. And I feel like I know their financial aid history personally. I don't, of course, but 

the statistics are that 690 of these students receive Pell; that 290 of those Pell recipients are eligible 

for total Pell; that 791 of those students receive subsidized Stafford loans; 371 additionally, 

unsubsidized Stafford loans. 
9

 In fact, 8 out of 10 African-Americans who graduate from colleges in this country are 

receiving indebtedness of $13,000 and higher. And at Paine College, a senior who graduates from 

Paine is very likely to graduate with a debt of $20,750. 

 One hundred-and-thirty-one of our students receives the Supplemental Opportunity Grant; 

395 Paine College students receive work-study and work 20 hours. At the same time that these 

students are working 20 hours and carrying loans, they tend to be the students among those whom 

we recruit and admit who would benefit best by having total time to study. 

 Even with those kinds of pressures, we have an amazing success rate. In our class of 2001, 

our valedictorian went to Virginia Commonwealth University; our salutatorian went to Penn State 

University to pursue a Ph.D. in English. 

 This year among our graduates was a student who went to the University of Pennsylvania to 

a post-baccalaureate program. And our star graduate, from a little tiny town right outside of 

Atlanta, called Morvin, Georgia, was accepted to seven graduate schools such as Boston College, 

University of Pennsylvania, University of Georgia. 

 Each of those students, and many others, came to Paine College financial aid-dependent.

They would not have made it without being accepted, without being nurtured, without receiving 

financial aid, and, in many cases, without carrying loans. 

 We are looking to create some more superstars. And among that list I have a student who is 

a sophomore. Her mother died in high school; her father died before that. She received financial 

aid, of course, but we could not meet her total needs. So even though she is totally destitute, she 

has a $2,000 unmet need. 

 I have another student from out-of-state who is from a family that has been judged as noncreditworthy. The student is worthy. The family is not able to provide the kind of assistance that 

they should be able to provide. So we have helped him to obtain subsidized and unsubsidized 

loans. But, at the moment, he has an unmet debt to the college of $4,425. Where will he go? What 

will happen? We are waiting and trying to help. 

 We, like our other historically black colleges, and many other private colleges, have an 

outstanding reputation for nurturing. That is true. But our nurturing is buttressed by being able to 

provide, through the TRIO programs, our student support services programs, which emphasize 

access.

 So what we need more than anything else is more support, more grant aid, to be able to 

provide the kind of service that we provide through the partnership with you. A higher Pell grant, 

grants-in-aid, are extremely important for at-risk students, students who we have proved across the 

years can make it, do make it, and do marvelous things. 

 So I ask for your continued support, the federal support. It is the best partnership and the 

most important one that we have to be able to carry out our marvelous goals, and to produce the 
10

great people that we do produce. 

 When we produce a student who graduates from Paine College, whether that student came 

in, as many of them do, with the grade point average, the test score, and the lifestyle to make it 

anywhere, those students go to Paine because they know we are special. 

 We also admit some students whose entry profiles say to us, you can make it, but may not 

say that to everyone else. They, too, are among the superstars that we produce. But we are very 

concerned because the unmet need portion of their financial aid packages is growing, and the debt 

burden of loans is growing. 

 So I ask for you to continue to be our partners. Remember that we do a marvelous job. 

Together, with the healthy partnership, instead of empty promises, we will continue to fulfill 

dreams. Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY A.R. LEWIS, PRESIDENT, PAINE COLLEGE, AUGUSTA, 

GEORGIA – SEE APPENDIX C 

Chairman Boehner. Thank you, Dr. Lewis. 

Mr. Gladieux.

STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE E. GLADIEUX, EDUCATION AND PUBLIC 

POLICY CONSULTANT, POTOMAC FALLS, VIRGINIA 

Mr. Gladieux. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, good morning. 

Chairman Boehner. You might want to turn your microphone on. 

Mr. Gladieux. I have a green light. Do you hear me? 

Chairman Boehner. Not very well. 

Mr. Gladieux. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you again, and good morning. 

 My name is Lawrence Gladieux. I am an independent policy consultant in the area of 

higher education. Dr. Garcia and her committee have performed an important public service in 

documenting the financial barriers facing low-income students in higher education. 

 I fully support the recommendations to expand need-based grant aid, in particular. Over the 

past decade, trends in tuition financing and financial aid have fallen hardest on those who have the 

least ability to afford post-secondary education. 

 By under investing in human capital, not only do we deny the American promise of 

opportunity for many of our citizens, we shortchange our country's economic future. One thing 
11

that I think adds special urgency to the Advisory Committee's recommendations is the new 

demography of college age students. 

 The Census Bureau projects that there will be 20 percent more 18- to 24-year-olds over the 

next decade, and this cohort will look very different from previous generations of college age 

students.

 It will be ethnically much more diverse, and the fastest growth will come from groups in the 

U.S. that have traditionally been poorer on average than the general population. Substantially more 

financial aid will be needed just to sustain current levels of post-secondary participation. 

 But removing financial barriers is just part of the challenge, as has been noted. We need 

complimentary strategies to equalize college opportunities. Many factors influence an individual's 

chances of college: prior schooling, academic achievement, family and community attitudes, 

awareness of opportunities, as well as ability to pay. 

 For low- and moderate-income students, affordability is intertwined with a host of other 

variables rooted in culture, environment, and social conditions. Of all of the things that influence 

who enters and who succeeds in higher education, academic preparation appears to be the most 

powerful.

 Research has repeatedly shown that students who take rigorous, progressively more 

challenging course work through high school are far more likely to plan for, enroll in, and graduate 

from college. 

 For many students, the die is cast by the 8th grade. Students without the appropriate math 

and reading skills by that grade are unlikely to acquire them by the end of high school. When 

asked, almost all 8th graders say they want to go to college, but the course-taking patterns of low 

income and minority students make it difficult for them to meet their expectations. 

 As a result, many of these students end up less well prepared on average than higher income 

majority students. Tracking policies, school resources, and quality social conditions all play a part 

in creating these disparities. 

 For the long haul, let's hope that the education standards movement, the ``No Child Left 

Behind'' legislation that this committee helped to enact, and all of the energy that is being poured 

into school improvement around the country will benefit and change the odds for generations to 

come. 

 In the mid-term, however, I submit that we need direct outreach to more of the current 

generation, intervention programs that make a difference in the lives of young, disadvantage 

children. 

 Yes, we need the wholesale school reforms. We also need the retail, ``one kid at a time,'' 

kinds of efforts. Twenty years ago, as many of you know, Eugene Lange started a movement with 

his ``I Have a Dream`` promise to 60 sixth graders in east Harlem. He said he would pay their 
12

college tuition if they graduated from high school. 

 Lange not only guaranteed the tuition, he made a personal commitment to the critical 

mentoring, and counseling, and tutoring, and whatever support was needed to keep students from 

falling between the cracks, and many of them have graduated from college and gone on to 

productive lives as a result. 

 Scores of programs like this have been developed across the country and they do make a 

difference. But for the millions of young people whose life chances are dim, and might be lifted by 

an ``I Have a Dream'' kind of program, the movement is almost like a wheel of fortune. 

 A youngster must be lucky enough to be in the right city, the right school, and the right 

classroom. The challenge for public policy is to leverage these kinds of efforts to a much larger 

scale. We have a profound talent search, the federal TRIO programs, as well as the new Gear Up 

Program. 

 These provide many of the support services that are needed for low-income first generation 

students, but they only reach a small percentage of the eligible population. Gear up is an attempt, 

as I understand it, to emulate the most successful private intervention programs, the tuition 

guarantee, plus the other support services to help students keep on track. 

 Beginning on page 12 of my written testimony, I offer a number of specific 

recommendations for the federal government, the states, and the colleges. I would be glad to go 

into specifics if we have time in the question and answer. 

 Suffice it to say, as it has already been said, we need greater efforts from all levels of 

government, from institutions of higher education, from the private sector, are much wider in 

deeper commitment across our society to reaching, motivating, and preparing students for college, 

and making sure that price is not a barrier. 

 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE E. GLADIEUX, EDUCATION AND PUBLIC POLICY 

CONSULTANT, POTOMAC FALLS, VIRGINIA – SEE APPENDIX D 

STATEMENT OF ELIZABETH SENGKHAMMEE, STUDENT, UNIVERSITY 

OF WISCONSIN AT MILWAUKEE, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN AND 

MEMBER, U.S. STUDENT ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D.C 

Ms. Sengkhammee. Good morning. My name is Elizabeth Sengkhammee, and I am a student at 

the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, and a member of the United States Student Association.

USSA is the nation's oldest, largest national student organization. 
13

 Since 1947, we have worked to expand access to higher education because we believe that 

education is a right for all, and not a privilege just for a few. The release of ``Empty Promises,'' a 

report on college access in America, has brought student financial aid to the forefront. 

 We are pleased that you have asked for our input. Students will be directly affected by 

decisions made by Congress on financial aid programs. On behalf of all students that receive a 

form of financial aid, and those who expected to receive in the future, I thank you for this 

opportunity.

 This fall I will be a senior at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee majoring in 

community education. I was a vice president of the student government in 2001 and 2002. Upon 

my graduation in May, I hope to study in Thailand for a year; afterwards I would like to attend law 

school.

 My obstacles in life have shaped my dreams to create equality for all people. I am here this 

morning to talk to you about my experience entering college, and what factors went into that 

decision.

 My parents were born in Laos and entered the United States in 1979. My father was a 50-

year-old Vietnam War veteran, and my mother was 40-years-old when we came to the United 

States. They had no money, and, most of all, no education. 

 As refugees of the Vietnam War, the Hmong's people involvement side-by-side with the 

United States in the secret war, adjusting to a new culture was just half the battle. The other half 

was living in a world with misunderstanding and racism. 

 With no education and no knowledge of the English language, my parents used what they 

did have, heart, spirit, and dedication, to give their children the strength and support that they 

needed.

 I grew up with five sisters and two brothers in Wisconsin. My younger sister and I were 

born in America; the others were born in Laos and Thailand. Going to college was not something 

we thought of as reality. I wanted to change that, so I independently applied for scholarships, 

schools, and financial aid. 

 Applying for school was an uphill battle. Being poor all of my life, seeing the suffering and 

sacrifice my family has, I wanted more, not just temporarily but permanent, a realistic future. 

 As a first generation college student growing up, I was not like any other teenagers. I 

couldn't go to my parents for questions and help that I needed on my applications. With a little 

help from my older sister and a high school counselor, I made it through the application process, 

and this changed my family's future forever. 

 I was accepted to many institutions, one of which was a private women's college in 

Milwaukee. This was a dream come true. I also received a scholarship to attend the school. This 
14

accomplishment was soon taken away when I realized the cost of the institution was too high. 

 Even though it had everything I wanted in a school, such as a smaller and more personal 

campus, it was not a possibility. I was nervous about going to college, and a small campus would 

have created a smooth transition for being a first generation student. 

 I now attend the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. My choice has created different 

experiences that I appreciate. However, the choice was made because of financial barriers, the cost 

of education was a factor in my search for a post-secondary institution. 

 Without efforts to make college both more accessible and more affordable, we can expect a 

rise in student work hours and student debt to continue. And those are the lucky ones, the ones 

who get a foot in the door. 

 The 2 million would-be students sitting on the sidelines deserve better. We can do better. 

Congress can do better. Billions of dollars of lost earning potential and even greater loss in broken 

dreams is unacceptable. 

 We have to promote financial aid policies that emphasize need, make loans more 

affordable, increase grant aid, control tuition, and make access to higher education our nation's 

hallmark. 

 Like many other low-income students, I do not have the resources that other Americans 

have in this country. My parents arrived here 22 years ago with the dream to create opportunities 

for all of their children. I have fulfilled that dream through education. 

 Although they could not provide me with financial assistance and knowledge that I needed, 

they provided me with the courage and hope for a better future here in America. My college 

education will enrich my life, my family's life, in America for many years to come. Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF ELIZABETH SENGKHAMMEE, STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF 

WISCONSIN AT MILWAUKEE, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN AND MEMBER, U.S. 

STUDENT ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D.C – SEE APPENDIX E 

Chairman Boehner. Ms. Sengkhammee, thank you for your willingness to come and tell us your 

story, and thank all of the witnesses for their excellent testimony. 

 When you graduate next May, Ms. Sengkhammee, what kind of debt, with regard to student 

loans, do you expect to have? 

Ms. Sengkhammee. I expect about $10,000. 

Chairman Boehner. Do you think that is too high, too low, or just about right? 

Ms. Sengkhammee. I definitely think that is way too high, even for a person like myself, because 

you have to account for transportation, housing, food, and books. And it is just not tuition 
15

anymore. There are other things that are causing people to go in debt, especially for college 

students.

Chairman Boehner. But my point is, you have $10,000 worth of debt, but you also have a college 

degree. And my point is that do you think that is a reasonable trade-off? 

Ms. Sengkhammee. Definitely, I mean, anything is worth your education. But the amount of 

sacrifice and time of work that you have to have to pay it off, I mean, I think it is a little strenuous. 

Chairman Boehner. I was going to ask, I think it was Dr. Lewis, who said that the average debt, 

and these are students at your college, the average debt was about $20,000? 

Ms. Lewis. Yes, $20,000. 

Chairman Boehner. And as I was listening to that, I was one who never understood the value of a 

college education, and what it would mean in terms of earning power, and was very reluctant to 

take on debt. 

 But when you begin to look at Ms. Sengkhammee's illustration of her $10,000, and the 

average at yours is $20,000, I would suggest that most people will end up taking on a car loan of 

somewhere between 10 and $20,000 without even blinking an eye. 

 Now a car is an asset that declines in value rapidly, especially the more you drive it, 

whereas a college education is something that is a real investment in your long-term earning power. 

 And I wish I knew then, 30 years ago, what I know now, I wouldn't have spent all of the 

years I spent in night school trying to get myself a college degree. I would have probably tried to 

find a way to get a loan. 

 But I do think that as I read through the testimony of all four of you, one of the barriers, and 

one of the ways to overcome the obstacle, would be mentoring. The advice that all of you talked 

about in some way, I think, is a very big barrier to many young people who want to go to college. 

They have never been exposed to it, never had someone work with them to show them how they 

might be able to do that. And I would like to ask all four of you what role you believe mentoring 

of some sort would have in terms of increasing access to higher education? Dr. Garcia. 

Ms. Garcia. Thank you. It is true that one of the most important variables for students to persist, 

that is to stay in school at the college/university level, is making some sort of connection with 

someone. The connection can be with a faculty member, a counselor, an advisor, or a clerk, 

somebody that helps them through those difficult cycles that we have all had going through school.

And so there is no question that a mentoring program or a connection is an important variable to 

persistence.

 I think what also needs to be considered, however, is the issue of the loan burden that goes 

with mentoring. We had a student testify, like the articulate student that spoke this morning, over a 

three- year period, to our committee. One particularly stands out to me. And this was a student 
16

who was first in her family to go to college, came from a migrant family, had a similar situation in 

the sense there was no one at home that could help her or mentor in that regard, so she sought it all 

from the university. 

 She was a work-study student, actually, in my office; also had a loan, also had maximum 

Pell Grants, and also worked after college for money. She told us in that testimony that she had 

just gotten a credit card because she needed additional money than just to buy her books for that 

semester. 

 So while we were helping her in my office, she was being mentored by all of the folks that 

are there, she actually needed much more than that. She needed more financial assistance. And 

that wasn't because she wasn't prepared to go to college. And it wasn't because she wasn't working 

her way through. So the issue of burden is a tremendous one. 

Chairman Boehner. Dr. Lewis. 

Ms. Lewis. Well, you know, if I were to change Paine College's name, I am not, but if I were, I 

would call it Mentoring University. That is the ambience of who we are. That is our raison d'etre. 

That is why people come to us and pay private college tuition. And that is why some of these 

people have the $20,000 debt. It is absolutely important. We would lose more people if we were 

not a mentoring institution. 

 I like your metaphor about the loan for the car. No way does it compare to the loan for 

college. But, you know, you almost think about our students out with the loan from college, and 

then the loan for the car, you know, so we need the mentoring. We need the support for our student 

support services, which is part of the programmatic part of the mentoring. But we also need to 

make the playing field more level. 

Chairman Boehner. Mr. Gladieux. 

Mr. Gladieux. There is a book, and technology is not my strong suit. There is a book titled, 

``Beating the Odds: How the Poor Get to College”, and it is written by Arthur Levine. He happens 

to be president of Teachers College at Columbia. And a colleague of his, I think, Jana Niddifer, 

both of them were the first generation to go to college. And they did 24 case studies of first 

generation students. 

 And they concluded very simply that the critical difference in almost in every case, it came 

down to one individual. It might have been a relative, it might have been a teacher, and it might 

have been a counselor, anybody, who created a spark. 

 They call it, ``One Arm Around One Child.'' They call it retail, not wholesale, work. It is 

very intensive work when you try to scale up these kinds of intervention programs, because it 

requires that human contact. 

Chairman Boehner. Ms. Sengkhammee. 
17

Ms. Sengkhammee. I believe that mentoring is definitely a strong component in the motivation of 

why students go to college. But, however, like many of my peers, who did have mentoring, and 

who did have guidance, they decided to go straight into the work force, or go straight into the work 

force and get a loan to buy a nice car. 

They didn't even think they could afford the cost of education, so why did you want to think 

twice about going into it. I definitely believe that mentoring has a strong component to it. 

 But, still, when they think about the cost of higher education, that kind of turns them away 

from entering college. 

Chairman Boehner. Well, let me, as my time has run out, let me say that I do think that the 

mentoring part is a significant step in this process. As most of my colleagues know, I have got 11 

brothers and sisters. I am the only one that went to college. I don't know who sparked me, but I 

remember having to buy a car to get to school. And, finally, it came down to paying the tuition or 

paying the car loan, and paying the car loan was very important at that time. 

 And, as a matter of fact, I ended up dropping out of college, and after working several years 

of back- breaking work, that reminded me that I didn't want to do that the rest of my life, so I went 

back to college. 

 But I do think that taking the fear away, the cost that could never happen to me. And the 

mentoring part of this is a very important part because, while there are problems with cost and 

filling in the void, I think taking the cloud away that it is possible is probably maybe one of the 

most important things we can do. 

 With that, I will yield to Mr. Miller. 

Mr. Miller. Well, thank you, and I am in full agreement with you. I am concerned a little bit that 

the suggestion is that this is a simple problem of just financial assistance. 

 And I think, as the panel has pointed out, we, as we think about the Higher Education Act, 

certainly we should think of this in a broader context, because I think a lot of it is about properly 

informing people about what their real options are. 

 You have mentioned, Ms. Sengkhammee, that some individuals just think, well, they can't 

afford it. There is no reason to go to college. They will go into the work force. I don't know if that 

is an informed decision, or an uninformed decision, and I think that is important. 

 Because if they really knew what their options were would they make that same decision? I 

don't know. In California, we have a different situation. We have the Cal Grants Program. 

 And, yet, we see that that may not even be taken up fully in terms of opportunities for 

young people, certainly to go to the community college system, certainly to get those first two 

years.
18

 And that is why I guess my first question would be on this issue; you have 400,000 collegequalified students who failed to enroll. What do we know about those 400,000 people? 

 I mean, not every decision not to go to college is not a bad decision. And so, what do we 

know about those 400,000? I don't mean to minimize the findings here. But do they go to college 

later? 

 Do they participate in programs that their employer provides that provides them a whole 

series of skills that are necessary to what they may intend to be their profession? 

 What do we know about them? 

Ms. Garcia. May I respond? 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Ms. Garcia. What we know about them is that they took all of the rigorous course work to prepare 

to go to college. And we know that they assume then, had the expectation to go to college. We 

know that two years after their graduation they were still not enrolled in college if they were lowincome students or moderate-income students. 

 So what that would leave you then to conclude is that they have, while preparing and doing 

all that we told them to do, perhaps, because of mentoring, or because of other reasons, have 

prepared to go to college, have had to make the decision not to go after two years. 

 And what you know about a student is if they do not go to college within the first two years 

after high school, the probability of them ever returning to college diminishes exponentially, so that 

is why the focus. 

Mr. Miller. You still haven't told me why they made that decision. You said you drew a 

conclusion that it was because of financial assistance. 

Ms. Garcia. Because you try to eliminate all of the other variables that it could have been. For 

example, that it could have been because they weren't well prepared. Well, we know that that 

wasn't the case. We know that there are now community colleges close to many communities. 

 So we think access, in terms of number of institutions or variety, is probably there. And so, 

when you try to eliminate all of the other variables, the one that finally is left that does not get 

eliminated is the gap between what they can receive from Pell Grant for financial aid, work study, 

loans, and the actual costs of going to college itself. 

Mr. Miller. Excuse me, if I could just because I don't want to run out of time. Mr. Gladieux, does 

that sound about right from your perspective? 

Mr. Gladieux. Well, I think we are talking about a very complicated equation of human behavior 

and social policy. The most persuasive evidence to me that we have yet to solve the affordability 
19

problem is Department of Education data that at all levels of academic achievement, you hold 

constant for academic achievement. 

 Less affluent students go to college at much lower rates than high-income students. But 

that doesn't say that the sole barrier is financial. I think a big part of this is academic preparation. 

Mr. Miller. We are talking about a group of students we assume made the academic decision. 

Mr. Gladieux. Well, I have to say, I don't want to get into methodology and I haven't looked at it 

closely. But you have to look at the range of academic preparation, achievement levels, ability of 

that group that, according to the index created by the Department of Education, says these students 

are qualified. 

 Well, that can be from minimally qualified up to very highly qualified. And I am sure there 

is a distribution, in terms of ability, within that group that varies by income and race. And, you 

know, that's a reality. And it is part of the stark reality that we are looking at. 

Mr. Miller. Well, let me just say, and I won't take just one moment here because this isn't going to 

be answered today. But my concern is it is not about, and I am obviously incredibly committed to 

providing financial assistance and very disturbed about our move away from grants and our move 

to higher income support for higher income families, and all of the rest of that. 

I think it is more complicated than just that. I mean in my own experience, in my own 

community working with groups who do intensive mentoring, we have a group, the Omega Boys 

and Girls Club and they come and they take a tour of historically black colleges, and they work 

with students, some cases almost four years, through their entire high school experience. 

 A hundred percent of those young people end up in college, and they come mainly from 

low-income families, and are accepted across an incredible range of institutions. I don't know that 

that says anything yet either. But I don't think it is just a question that 400,000 people didn't show 

up, and so it is more money. 

 I think we would be missing the mark, in terms of the other kinds of support systems that 

are necessary to help people either fathom what is available out there. I meet with young people in 

Close Up and Gear Up Programs; they didn't have a clue that the University of California was 12 

miles down the road. 

 They didn't have a clue that it existed there until they ran into these programs. Sometimes 

they didn't run into these programs until they were juniors or seniors. So I think that this is 

somewhat more complicated than just notion. 

 Thank you very much. All of those testimonies were very helpful. 

Chairman Boehner. Mr. Isakson. 
20

Mr. Isakson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Dr. Lewis. We are proud of what you do in 

Georgia.

Ms. Lewis. Thank you. 

Mr. Isakson. Following up on what the ranking member said, and earlier the chairman said, are 

you familiar with the Prep Program, or Prep it Up Program that the Chancellor of the Board of 

Regents established a few years ago? 

Ms. Lewis. A little bit, yes, I have heard of it. 

Mr. Isakson. Just to follow up on what Congressman Miller said, Georgia recognized there was a 

disconnect that may have been financial, and started a Prep it Up Program, where less affluent, 

more financially challenged students in their junior and sophomore years are invited to the various 

campuses of the university system in Georgia to experience college life, and also learn about what 

is available. 

 And they had a remarkable success rate, in terms of the rate of students going to college that 

otherwise previously had not. So I just wanted to chime in and say that I think Mr. Miller and Mr. 

Boehner are absolutely correct that there is a major role in mentoring. 

 A lot of the economically disadvantaged also have an informational disadvantaged, if you 

will, and it certainly makes a contribution. That is really a comment on my part, but you are 

welcome to react to it if you want to. 

Ms. Lewis. Well, I think that you are raising a very good point. The program that was developed 

for the public universities is very similar to programs such as Upward Bound, which we have on 

our campus, and many other campuses. And I think that it is very true that we have much more 

work to do in terms of providing information. 

 There are people who do not think they can go to college, who don't know there is a college 

down the street, as Mr. Miller said; or who don't know that there is financial aid, which, if they are 

low income, can assist them. 

 So that is an important part of it. But what we are experiencing is that for those who do 

know, or those whom we find through various forms of mentoring often still drop out as they get 

there, or don't come because it seems to be out of reach financially. 

 So there is a combination, there are other factors certainly in mentoring. Mentoring through 

individuals or through programs helps tremendously. So it is not to exclude that. But we are 

driven, or certainly torn by the fact that even when we get these wonderful opportunities, we have a 

gap and we need some more help with it. 

Mr. Isakson. Dr. Garcia, does your institution offer any of your course work over the Internet, or 

distance learning? 
21

Ms. Garcia. Yes, sir. We are a part of the University of Texas system, distance learning, weblearning network, and we had the first graduate of the entire UT system from UT Brownsville. 

Mr. Isakson. Very good, Dr. Lewis, do you offer any course work over the Internet? 

Ms. Lewis. Not yet.

Mr. Isakson. Well, I am sure you will soon. Well, this is an advertisement. Thanks to the hard 

work of the ranking member and the chairman, we have passed in the House an overwhelmingly, 

by an overwhelming margin, House Bill 1992, to make student finance available to distance 

learning in higher education from accredited institutions with low default rates. 

 That is basically held up in the Senate by very few people whose memories are too long and 

foresights too short. But it seems to me the Southern Regional Education Board has just come out 

with a strong statement saying the cost of distance learning should not be tied to resident or nonresident tuition, but rather to actual cost. 

 There is significant evidence that universities like the university system of Texas that have 

the infrastructure investment can offer very cost-effective, high end education via the Internet, and 

that if we can get the 50 percent rule and the 12 hour rule amended and allow student finance aid, 

distance learning reduces some of those ancillary costs that are inhibitors such as residency, food, 

transportation, and all of those types of things. 

 So that is an advertisement on behalf of the ranking member, who has left, and the chairman 

of the Higher Ed Committee, Mr. Boehner, and myself. If you had lobbied over in the state of 

Massachusetts in the Senate, it would be very helpful to these students that you are talking that we 

are trying to help. 

 It won't solve the entire problem, but there are some policy issues as well as finance 

problems that will help. And I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Boehner. Thank you. Good plug. 

Mr. Scott. 

Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank all of the witnesses for testifying. We 

have heard about the effect that this has, that lack of funding will have on your high school. 

 If you don't think you are going to college, you are not going to worry about doing well in 

high school, and the effect that some of the programs like, ``I Have a Dream,'' and the effect that 

they can have on students. 

 Do any states have guarantees of college access? I thought Georgia had a program. 

Ms. Lewis. Georgia has a wonderful program, Hope Scholarships for students who have done well 

in high school in college prep courses, and also the Tuition Equalization Grant for students who go 
22

to college. 

 And for Paine College, for example, that is a tremendous resource for our financial aid. It is 

an asset, and it helps us tremendously. For the Tuition Equalization Grant, they have to make 

reasonable progress. 

 But for the Hope Scholarship, which provides $3,000 for students with college prep courses 

and a B+ average, if the student is able to maintain that grade point average, that is a tremendous 

boost for us. And we have a 75 percent retention rate, retention of the Hope Scholarship, at Paine 

College.

Mr. Scott. Thank you. 

Ms. Lewis. Thank you. 

Mr. Scott. Dr. Garcia, did your calculation figure out how many hours of work you would expect a 

student to work during school to get to the $3800 shortfall? 

Ms. Garcia. I don't know the exact number. What I can tell you is that what we discovered that 

students who are low income and are attending college and university, tend to work more than 40 

hours a week. 

Mr. Scott. It is my understanding that if you work more than 15 hours a week, that your attrition 

rate starts going up, is that right? 

Ms. Garcia. Yes, sir, that is exactly right. In response to your previous question, I might add, 

about other states, Indiana has an Indiana Scholars Program that provides, guarantees tuition. And 

Texas has what they call the Texas Grant Program that also assists students who have taken 

rigorous courses, and it is not need-based, also merit-based. 

Mr. Scott. In the 1970's, the Pell Grant covered about 84 percent of the public school tuition, and 

now it is down to about somewhere in the 30's. In the 1970's, you could probably work about 15 

hours a week during school and make that difference. 

 Do you know how many hours you would have to work during the week to work your way 

through school now? 

Ms. Garcia. Well, we would surmise from the studies that we have studied is that it would be over 

40 hours a week. 

Mr. Scott. If you work 40 hours a week, do you end up getting disqualified for certain aid 

packages? 

Ms. Garcia. And that is an important question. I am glad you raise that. That is one of the 

problems with Pell today. If a student begins to work outside, in addition to the loan that they have 

gotten, you are absolutely right. That amount of dollars is added to their capacity. And so, the next 
23

year they will actually get less Pell than the current year. 

Mr. Scott. Being $3800 short at a public college, you are obviously a lot further behind going to a 

private college. 

 Do the demographics of those going to a private college, are they now being skewed to the 

point where only the wealthy can attend a private college? 

Ms. Lewis. The wealthy, of course, can attend. The non-wealthy, which is 90 percent of the 

students who attend Paine College, have higher and higher loan indebtedness, are working more 

hours outside of school, and are having just a terrible time trying to keep up. 

 Our problem increases when we consider that we have students not only those who are 

totally qualified for federal financial assistance, but then we have lower middle income students 

whose parents make, or parent, which is usually the case, makes enough not to qualify for financial 

assistance, but not enough to cover the costs of tuition. 

Mr. Scott. But this has some implications of the poorest people going to school; end up the worse 

in debt.

Ms. Lewis. Yes, very much so. 

Mr. Scott. They are least able to make any investments, to save any money for investments. Let 

me ask one quick question on the anti-trust exemption that was mentioned in somebody's 

testimony. I thought we had fixed that a couple of years ago. 

 What do we need to do for the anti-trust exemption for private colleges to be able to offer 

scholarship packages? 

Mr. Gladieux. Excuse me, Mr. Scott. I included a recommendation in my testimony that three 

private colleges confer among themselves about financial aid packages, and in order to focus their 

scarce student aid dollars on the neediest students. 

 And I believe that there was a fixed in law several years ago, but I would advocate 

widening it. There are certain restrictions in the legislation that was passed, or the amendment. I 

would get rid of this anti-trust kind of chill that inhibits colleges from reaching consensus on needbased standards. 

Mr. Scott. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I would inquire if we could get a briefing on what that antitrust fix did, and what we need to do to accommodate these concerns. I don't know if that is within 

our jurisdiction or not, but I think we need a briefing on that issue. 

Chairman Boehner. You are right. It is not in our jurisdiction. 

Mr. Scott. Well, if we could find out some information on it, so that we can inform the committee 

with appropriate jurisdiction, we would appreciate it. 
24

Chairman Boehner. Yeah, we will do that. 

Mr. Scott. Thank you. 

Chairman Boehner. We will do that. Thank you. 

Mr. Keller. 

Mr. Keller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank all of the witnesses for taking time to 

testify before us today. I certainly am a big fan of the Pell Grant Program. I wouldn't have gone to 

college but for the Pell Grant Program. 

 One of the things the Empty Promises report talked about was the unmet need of about 

$3800, and the need for more money for Pell Grants. Let me ask your opinion. I'm going to ask all 

of the witnesses to weigh in on this. 

 Right now, we spend about $11 billion to maintain Pell Grants at $4,000. If we could wave 

a magic wand and say an extra $2 billion this year, so it is $13 billion, how would we spend it? 

 And let me ask for your opinion on this. There are two schools of thought. There is a 

Harvard professor, who has written a book called ``Paying for College,'' that says we should front 

load Pell Grants to help kids get in the door that first year. 

 And so, he would take that money, and instead of having $4,000 for the first year, he would 

say $5,000 for the first year student, and second, third, and fourth year would stay at $4,000. 

 President Bush advocated something similar when he ran for office initially. On the other 

hand, the folks who represent the four year school says, ``No, we don't like that proposal. That 

would be cruel to help someone get their foot in the door the first year, and then you get less Pell 

Grants, second, third, and fourth year.'' 

 And so, there is an honest difference of opinion among reasonable people. If we had that 

extra $2 billion, do you think, on the one hand, we should front load it and have the first year get 

$5,000, or should each year go up to $4250 across the board? Dr. Garcia. 

Ms. Garcia. Thank you for that question. I think that I would love to have that wand, and I know 

you all do. And so, what I would do is to go ahead and apply it across the board and not front load. 

 What we know is that even when students get to our doors they often drop out after a year, 

or two because of the financial aid issue. So to diminish that aid those years actually works against 

what we are trying to do, and what we have discovered as research. 

Mr. Keller. Okay. Dr. Lewis, do you have an opinion on this? 

Ms. Lewis. Yes, I do. I love the philosophy of front-loading for the new students, because, of 

course, you want to get them in the door. But I have to say that the reality is there is no less a 
25

problem as you continue, than there is when you start, and that I would prefer, since we are waving 

the wand, that we could, if we approved it, we would have a Pell Grant already at $5,400, because 

we are allowed to do that. We just aren't there yet. 

 So I would like to go up at least to what we could be doing now, and continue to increase it 

and allocate it evenly. 

Mr. Keller. Okay. Mr. Gladieux. 

Mr. Gladieux. I think there is an aspect of bait-and-switch. And, yet, once again, likewise, I am 

drawn to the idea of front-loading and giving that in major incentive right up front. So I am of 

mixed mind about your question. 

 I will say that it is a sure recipe for political gridlock among the sectors of higher education. 

So I think it is going to be very tough and may be a distraction from other issues that ought to be 

debated.

Mr. Keller. So you say it should be across the board then? 

Mr. Gladieux. I would say across the board, yes. 

Mr. Keller. Okay. Elizabeth. 

Ms. Sengkhammee. Well, as a recipient of the Pell Grant, I also believe that it should be across the 

board, too, because even if you can afford the first year it doesn't eliminate the fact that you still 

have to go to college for three more years. So I would definitely agree that it should be across the 

board.

Mr. Keller. Okay. Let me ask a final question. What do you think the Pell Grant should be funded 

at though? You mentioned that we have an authority higher than $4,000. 

 What do you think would be reasonable for Congress to fund the Pell Grant at next year? 

Ms. Lewis. $5,400. 

Mr. Keller. Dr. Garcia. 

Ms. Garcia. I think we should try to recover the buying power we had in the '70s, and it would 

take adding at least that much, and making a long-term commitment to continue to do that as need 

arises.

Mr. Keller. So will that be about something in the $5,000 range, you're saying? 

Ms. Garcia. Oh, I think the issue is at the very least, yes. That would make a significant impact 

toward recouping some of that buying power. 
26

Mr. Keller. Okay. Mr. Gladieux. 

Mr. Gladieux. To restore the purchasing power, I believe would require a maximum Pell Grant in 

the range of 7 to $8,000, but I would take $5400 next year. 

Ms. Lewis. You would settle for that next year. 

Mr. Keller. Margaret, you are going to be going on to graduate, what would you like to see in your 

Pell Grant be? 

Ms. Sengkhammee. It is Elizabeth. 

Mr. Keller. I am sorry, Elizabeth, yes. 

Ms. Sengkhammee. Well, I believe that a maximum increase in Pell Grant would be good, but to 

resource in the funding for $400, in addition to what we already have. 

Mr. Keller. Okay, thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Chairman Boehner. The chair recognizes the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Andrews. 

Mr. Andrews. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I very much appreciate the testimony of each of the 

witnesses. Thank you. It was very inspiring. Particularly, you, Elizabeth, were very inspiring. 

 I preface my question by saying I believe that increases in income for college graduates 

have outpaced increases in tuition. And I think a fair measure of tuition increases is that the 

investment has been more than justified because of tuition increases. 

 Having said that, I want to play devil's advocate for a minute and ask the panel this 

question. College tuitions are increasing considerably higher than the rate of inflation, and have for 

the foreseeable past number of years. 

 What about the argument that increasing the Pell, particularly if we make the Pell an 

entitlement, is going to fuel inflation and tuition at an even higher level, and that the end result will 

be that the gap between what people have to pay, and what they need to pay will grow, that all we 

will really do is subsidize an explosion of tuition inflation, and students really won't be any better 

off at the end of the cycle than they are now? 

 What do you think of that argument? 

Ms. Garcia. I would be pleased to begin to respond to that. Before I was president of the 

University of Texas at Brownsville, I was president of a community college for five years. And as 

part of the University of Texas system, I am part of discussions of the 15 universities and medical 

schools in the UT system. 
27

 I have also been involved with the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools for many 

years, and with the American Council on Education, in a variety of capacities. Never in any of 

those discussions, with regards to tuition increases, has ever anyone made the connection between, 

``my goodness, Pell is going up. Now is the time to raise tuition.'' 

 At home, where 90 percent of our students, like Dr. Lewis', are in need of financial 

assistance of some kind, and most of those maximum Pell grant. We work so incredibly hard, and 

we have the lowest tuition of all of the UT system schools, not even to consider a fee increase at 

our institution. I have never experienced that relationship occurring. 

Ms. Lewis. I thank you for that comment, Dr. Garcia. Paine College and many of the sister 

institutions, particularly those in UNCF, we have a history of keeping our charges low. We would 

be better off if we raised them. But our whole philosophy is to try to stay within reach of the 

students, and we have never based any increase on what might be coming with Pell. It would just 

help us do what we do better. 

Mr. Andrews. I know that is true. I know the data shows that, too. 

Ms. Lewis. Thank you. 

Mr. Gladieux. You could argue if you look back over the past 20 years of this tuition spiral, 

relentless prices, higher prices exceeding inflation, that if the student aid programs, Pell grants, 

loans, everything, hadn't been around, what you could ask, would tuition have risen as fast, as 

much as it has in the past 20 years? That is a question. 

 And, you know, your question is based on a premise that maybe third party payments are 

just going to fuel, allow providers just to raise..... 

Mr. Andrews. Sort of like health care, that is one of the arguments. 

Mr. Gladieux. Yes, but, if you look at Pell grants, it just isn't plausible to me because only a small 

number of students receive that at any institution. 

Mr. Andrews. Right. 

Mr. Gladieux. So it's not going to cushion the increases across the board. You know, people said 

when the tuition tax credits were enacted several years ago that that was going to cause more 

inflation.

Mr. Andrews. In fact, tuition increases have moderated since the tax credits were enacted. 

Mr. Gladieux. A little bit. 

Mr. Andrews. From '97 on, they have been slightly lower increases. 
28

Mr. Gladieux. A little bit. 

Mr. Andrews. Yeah.

Mr. Gladieux. Yes, it is hard to sort it all out because there is so many sources and subsidies. 

Mr. Andrews. Let me say again before Elizabeth answers, I reject the premise of my own 

question. I don't think there is any evidence that suggests that there is a linkage between increased 

federal aid and increased tuition. But it is an argument we hear around here a lot, and we will hear 

around here a lot, as we get into the reauthorization. I want to hear your field expertise. 

 Elizabeth, did you want to comment on that? 

Ms. Sengkhammee. Just in Wisconsin, we are also facing major budget cuts. And you are right, 

like I believe that the federal and state need to build a sound relationship, so that in working 

together, so that we don't have that problem that occurs. 

Mr. Andrews. I appreciate that. One other thing I would ask the panel if they could submit in 

writing, since my time is up, is any creative ideas you may have on loan repayment strategies that 

are more flexible and more amenable to people's circumstances. 

 Inevitably, no matter what we do next year, people are still going to borrow a lot of money 

to go to school. And I would be interested in your input on that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. 

Chairman. 

Chairman Boehner. The chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. McKeon. 

Mr. McKeon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize for being late. And I did have an opening 

statement I would like to have submitted for the record. I want to thank the panelists for being 

here, and for the members of the committee that have stayed to ask their questions. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE HOWARD P. “BUCK” MCKEON, 

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. – SEE APPENDIX F 

Now this year Congress did increase the maximum Pell grant to its all time high of $4,000. 

And I have a chart here that shows how we have increased the Pell grant over the last several years. 

 I have one that is being printed that will be here shortly, showing how the cost of education 

has gone up much more rapidly. With the last question, I am not trying to tie the two together 

because, in the last reauthorization, or just before, we formed a committee to look at the cost of 

education. They also found that they could not correlate the two costs. 
29

PELL GRANT HISTORY AND TUITION AND FEES CHARGED BY COLLEGE BOARD 

REGION CHARTS, REFERRED TO BY REPRESENTATIVE HOWARD P. “BUCK” 

MCKEON, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF 

REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. – SEE APPENDIX G 

 But I am concerned, what do you think are the things that are driving the costs up? Because 

we do know that the costs of education is rising much faster than the cost of inflation. What are 

those drivers that are pushing those costs up? 

Ms. Lewis. Well, part of what is the cost at Paine College, of course, is the cost of technology, the 

cost of recruiting and retaining faculty, being able to operate our institutions in the economic 

medium in which we live. The cost of living is just escalating at a much higher rate. 

 But in order to remain competitive, and we certainly do everything we can to do that, we 

have to meet the educational expenses of operating an institution without putting those expenses on 

the backs of our students. 

Mr. McKeon. You know, there was a comment made earlier about private colleges or universities 

costing much more. I happen to have attended a private university, which was sponsored by my 

church. And, actually, their costs have remained. They don't begin to go up like these other costs 

have. And I know you can't see this, but it shows how rapidly those costs have gone up. And I 

think the church has felt the importance of having education for as many people as possible. 

 And they have really worked to keep their costs in line. And they haven't experienced those 

same things. You talked about getting faculty and maintaining faculty, keeping that faculty. A lot 

of that faculty doesn't teach. 

Ms. Lewis. Not at Paine College. 

Mr. McKeon. And not in your school. 

Ms. Lewis. No. 

Mr. McKeon. But you know that across the country of over 7,000 institutions, that is one of the 

problems. 

Ms. Lewis. That's true. 

Mr. McKeon I believe the schools have to address that problem. They have to look at maintaining 

their costs and controlling their costs. We are not going to pass a law that is going to set the level 

of tuition. 

 But if tuition maintained a level, or even declined slightly, do you think that would have a 

major impact on enrollment? 
30

Ms. Lewis. I wanted to thank you for saying what you did about the teaching part. That is not 

necessarily directly connected to your question, but the importance of teaching institutions. I mean 

no disrespect to the research institutions. 

 But at Paine College, for example, a full-time faculty carries four classes. And if you are a 

researcher as sort of what you do, in addition to teaching, there is a very high value on teaching at 

small privates like Paine. 

 And we also need some help in helping the general public understand the value of the 

teaching college, in comparison to the research institutions. They both have a function. But the 

teaching colleges that have their primary focus on teaching should continue to be valued as 

strongly as the research institutions. 

 If we lower tuition, then, of course, some of the costs that students are paying would also be 

lowered. We can't afford to lower tuition and still operate at the level that we are operating in. We 

have more to do, not less to do. 

Ms. Garcia. If I might respond also to your question about why the college rising costs over the 

last few years. Another variable to consider is that of state appropriations. While every state will 

log the number of dollars that actually go to higher education, relative to total state budgets, and 

relative to costs of education, the percentage of state appropriations to state colleges has actually 

been reduced over the years, over the last 10 years. 

 If you look at particular states this current year, you are going to see that plummet even 

more dramatically. Elizabeth mentioned Wisconsin. There are several other states that are already 

beginning to ask. In Texas, for example, we have gotten a letter from our governor saying what if 

we cut you by five? What if we cut you buy ten percent? Tell us what you would do. 

 Now, in response also to how we are trying to cut costs, we have at UT Brownsville, for 

example, as part UT systems, an attempt to reduce costs and increase productivity. We have been 

on this path for as long as I have been there, for ten years, every year measure how much we are 

able to reduce costs and increase productivity, whether it is in how we enroll students, register 

them, or how we provide a service of actually teaching the class. 

 We have actually decreased our administrative expenses relative to our total budget, and we 

are one of the fastest growing institutions in the UT system. So I don't think, if you look at your 

public institutions, and I am not as familiar with private institutions environments, but where these 

students that we are talking about go, which is mostly your public institutions, whether it is 

community colleges in Texas, and what we have over 52 colleges? 

 I don't think you are going to see any intent there to be less productive. We are going to 

receive the bulk of these students, and we are trying to brace ourselves for the tidal wave. And so, 

we are trying to figure out how to do better with less. 

Mr. McKeon. And if I could just take one more second. The chairman mentioned earlier about the 

importance of an investment in a college education. Even if you have to take out a loan, it is 
31

probably better to spend it on that than a car that the asset value drops. 

 And just one thing I wanted to point out. In 1987, the average student graduated with an 

$8,000 loan, and their interest costs were $4200. That has now gone up to $18,000. But because of 

the changes we have made on interest rates, they are still paying $4200 in interest. So we have 

made real advance in the things we have done to try to cut the costs. 

 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Boehner. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from Michigan, Ms. Rivers. 

Ms. Rivers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that our focus today should be and must be on the 

financial requirements that represent, I believe, a barrier to many people in acquiring a college 

education. I just happen to have paid off my student loans this past January. 

 I was a Pell grant recipient every year I was in school, and s a Stafford loan recipient. I 

went to school with two small children, and I stopped and started throughout my career because of 

financial and other kinds of considerations. It took me 15 years to get seven years of education. 

 And while I appreciate the concerns that people have raised about mentoring, neither of my 

parents went to college. I did not have a mentor in high school. But I did not stress over that. I 

didn't spend a lot of time worrying about did I have a mentor; should I have had a mentor? 

 Even though I went to a tiny high school. There were 55 kids in my graduating class, the 

biggest class ever. Certainly, I was cognizant of the fact that other people had high school 

experiences beyond mine. But that was not a source of major anxiety. 

 The major anxiety for my whole time in college was how would I pay my tuition? How 

would I buy books? How would I make my fees? And I will I still have food on the table? It is 

not about mentoring. It is not about high school preparation. It is about money. 

 And I think if we try to persuade ourselves otherwise, we are fooling ourselves. And I am 

particularly concerned that as we have addressed this issue in the time I have been in Congress, 

most of the attention has really gone toward middle class families. 

 And I recognize that middle class families are struggling to deal with these costs. But we 

have seen an increase in tax credits. Most of that will not go to lower income families because they 

don't come up with the money in advance, pay the tuition, and get the money back on their taxes. 

 We talked a little bit about work penalties. And we find the most disadvantaged students in 

a real catch 22, where they can't improve their lot without penalizing themselves. 

 And, in Michigan, the state that I come from, we have a state incentive program through our 

Michigan Education Assessment Program, our standardized testing, that gives college money to 

those who score the highest on the MEAP test. And we know that on standardized testing there is a 
32

direct correlation to family income and standardized test taking. 

 And so, again, we see money being directed mostly to middle class families. We do that as 

almost a matter of fact. But every year we have to duke it out in Congress for how much money we 

are going to put into Pell grants. And I don't understand it. 

 And maybe I have a perspective that is honed by what I had to do to get my education. But 

I really do believe that education is the antidote to just about every challenge that faces us. 

 And it strikes me that instead of arguing about whether Pell grants should go up by $400, 

we should be really seriously addressing the cost of why we would write off a significant portion of 

our population because they can't put the money together to go to school. 

 And, again, I just want to say, as I started out, that I think if we try to persuade ourselves 

that access is fundamentally a problem of anything other than financial aid, I think we are really 

trying to just make it easier for us to sleep at night. We are not addressing the problem. 

 And I would like to hear from all of you about, I would be interested in your views on this 

middle class emphasis, and the fact that we seem to be finding more and more ways for middle 

class people to fund the cost of education while lower income people seem to be falling behind. 

Ms. Garcia. I would be happy to begin that response. I concur. First, I congratulate you. Every 

commencement when someone walks across the stage, inevitably I will get someone that will say it 

took me 22 years, or it took me 17 years, but I finally made it. 

 I understand, and I congratulate you for that effort, and for your articulate and complete 

understanding of the issue. In response to whether or not, for example, tax credits would be a 

better place to focus, or committee, while cannot make specific recommendations, can tell you that 

the effect there is not as great as the focus that you see us trying to make here. And so, you are 

absolutely right. 

Ms. Lewis. I thank you too for raising the question. To me, it is just obvious that we must always 

provide access to the underrepresented if we want to make America even stronger, if we want to 

address the needs that are all around us with people who are not granted access, that no matter what 

we do to help those who are somewhat along the way, we must never turn our backs on the people 

who haven't made it yet. And, of course, at Paine College, 90 percent of our population is made of 

students from families who wish to become middle class through education. 

Mr. Gladieux. I agree with you. The lost revenue from the tuition, the Hope Scholarships Lifetime 

Learning Credits was estimated to be, I think, I don't know what the cost is; the cost estimates are 

now $12 to $15 billion. I mean that is far beyond Pell grant, the commitment to Pell grants, and 

other direct financial aid programs. 

 But, you know, the original Higher Education Act in 1965 had the language, ``and that but 

for such aid, students would not be able to go to college.'' And I think that has eroded over these 
33

past 30 years. It is more than just the tax credits. 

 I think as the demand for higher education, the importance of higher education has 

increased in the way it is perceived, the middle class have, they vote, and they are concerned about, 

they have anxiety about financing their children's education. 

 The federal government has been the pillar of access. 

Ms. Rivers. And I am not suggesting that we shouldn't help middle class families. 

Mr. Gladieux. Absolutely. 

Ms. Rivers. I am just concerned that the focus has been primarily there, instead of across the whole 

strata of our society. 

Ms. Sengkhammee. I definitely agree with that, too, and I feel that students from low-income 

families are often forgotten about. And, I mean, sure there is mentoring and there is other 

resources that determine whether a student goes to college or not. But I think the difference 

between students who go and don't go is definitely the access issue to the financial need, the money 

to afford college. 

Chairman Boehner. I thank the gentle lady. 

 The chair recognizes the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Tancredo. 

Mr. Tancredo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I really have an observation here more than a 

question, especially just in terms of the premises that have been established here in order for you to 

submit a report called ``Empty Promises.'' 

 And I am concerned because of the implication of even the title of this to me is that maybe 

we have made promises to people, even through our actions, more through our words, perhaps, that 

could, or maybe should never be fulfilled. 

 And what I mean by that is this,, that Ms. Sengkhammee's testimony here today was a 

perfect example in a way of what I am trying to express. If I understood you correct, Ms. 

Sengkhammee, you came from a family that could not provide you financial support for your quest 

for higher education. So did I. 

 You are now attending the University of Wisconsin, is that correct? And but you wish that 

you had been able to go to some other school. If I again understood you correctly, you said there 

were other options that you wish you were able to actually exercise. 

 But you are, in fact, at the University of Wisconsin. And you are getting, I just judge from 

both your ability to communicate, and your own comments, that it is a good education. 
34

 Did someone promise you at school, or just in a societal sense, I mean did someone promise 

you the ability to choose any school that you wanted as a result of the panoply that was available to 

you? 

 Is that really the promise that you thought was made, that you could go to any school, any 

college in the United States of America if you wanted to? 

Ms. Sengkhammee. Well, I don't really necessarily believe that promises were made because my 

first choice was a smaller campus, just because I wanted it to be more personal, and I thought the 

transition for me would be better. But I think the financial barrier was, you know, not about me. 

Mr. Tancredo. Yes, I understand. I understand exactly what you are saying. I agree and believe 

me, there were a lot of colleges I wish I could have gone to, I could never afford to go to. I had to 

go to a junior college for the first two years, state college after that. 

 There were other options that I wish I could exercise, but I couldn't financially. But no one 

made me the promise, you see. That is the difference. That is what I am trying to get to here. This 

implies even that the promise is out there, that no matter where you want to go to school, no matter 

what your economic situation or circumstances are, you should be able to go there. 

 But that is simply not a promise anyone has made, nor do I actually think we should. And I 

worry about just the impression that this leaves, ``Empty Promises.'' What is it that you think we 

have promised that we have not delivered? 

 I will tell you I believe that there is very few people in this country, if at all, frankly, who 

cannot go to college because of financial circumstances. 

 Now it may not be the college they want to go to. And it may be that they make a decision, 

just like we have described here, that, yes, I choose not to go to college because it is too expensive 

because I would rather do something else with my money. 

 Now that is true. I mean people make those decisions all of the time. But what kind of 

promise did we make here, that we have either broken, or that was empty to begin with? 

Ms. Garcia. May I respond to that, sir? In the first couple of pages of our report, we lay out the 

premise, not that we invented, but that borrow from what Congress, and what the nation has said it 

wanted to promise to its constituents. 

 Beginning with the Higher Education Act of 1965, when Lyndon Baines Johnson signed it, 

the Act says, and I quote, ``Means that a high school senior anywhere in this great land of ours can 

apply to any college or any university in any of the 50 states and not be turned away because the 

family is poor.'' 

 And then followed by Richard Nixon in a special message to Congress on higher education 

in the '70s, ``No qualified student who wants to go to college should be barred by lack of money.'' 
35

Mr. Tancredo. To college. That is correct. 

Ms. Garcia. ``This has been a great American goal. I propose that we achieve it now.'' 

 So my response to you is that the premise that we began with was that the promise that had 

been made for higher education access, that says if you work hard, and you prepare to go to 

college, we are going to make sure that money is not the reason that you are not allowed to go, not 

to a private school. It is only 28 of those in the university. 

Mr. Tancredo. But, Ms. Garcia, that is exactly what that first promise was. It didn't say to any 

public school. It said any school. And that is our fault. That was a stupid promise to make. It 

cannot be fulfilled, nor should it be. 

 But my point is that it can, and the second statement that you read, can be and is being 

fulfilled. You can go to college. It may not be the college that you ultimately wish to go to. It may 

not be the kind of education experience that you would like to have in the private small setting, or 

whatever, but you can go to college in this country. 

Chairman Boehner. The gentleman's time is expired. 

Mr. Tancredo. I apologize. 

Chairman Boehner. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from California, Ms. Woolsey. 

Ms. Woolsey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to remind Mr. Tancredo that it is your 

president that has promised ``to leave no child behind,'' and then I would like to point out that_ 

Mr. Tancredo. It didn't promise that everybody had to end up at exactly the same time. 

Ms. Woolsey. And I would like to point out, Mr. Chairman, that if we want an example of what the 

benefits are of these programs, Lynn Rivers is it, our Congresswoman. You talk about paying back 

to the community, and giving back to society because she was invested in as a young woman and a 

young mother. She is our example. So we really ought not to have to say another thing about all of 

this.

 But, Mr. Chairman, I would like to talk about a car loan and a student loan. First of all, 

people need cars to go to work. Now we know that. Second of all, we need to look at what a 

student loan and having to pay back somewhere between 10 and $20,000 does when a student is 

looking at their career choices. 

 If we want children to see models and mentors and educators that reflect their background 

and who they are in diversity, then how can the teacher have a 10 to $20,000 student loan and pay 

it off? 

 So my question and I am trying to make this into a question. My question would be: What 

are your students planning on doing? Are they able to go into some of the non-profits, into 
36

education, and into careers where we need them drastically and still pay off their loans? 

 Start with you, Dr. Lewis. 

Ms. Lewis. Thank you. I appreciate the comments and being able to turn it into a question. I 

appreciate that struggle. Paine College students are seeking careers according to their dreams and 

aspirations. Our focus, if I may, on what happens with those who have decided to go into the 

teacher education program. 

 We have an under representation of African-Americans in the teaching profession, 

particularly African-American males, and we have great pride at Paine College on having had a 

record of establishing teachers and administrators in the Augusta/Richmond County area from our 

school.

 We celebrate that the superintendent of schools, currently the first African-American to be 

so in Augusta, is a Paine College graduate, and the first African-American president of Augusta 

Technical College is also a Paine College graduate. 

Ms. Woolsey. Congratulations. 

Ms. Lewis. I look at those students who are going to become teachers. They are, in most cases, 

some of those who have the $20,000 loan when they graduate. They are entering professions that 

are not particularly high paying, although it is, in most cases, higher than their family incomes. 

 They are entering it having to repay their loans. So they enter with a struggle. If they do 

happen to buy a new car, or almost new car at that time, they have double the debt. They are doing 

it because they are committed, and they have had the opportunity to do what they wanted to do. 

 They chose Paine College because they thought it had something special. They made the 

decision to go to a private college with higher tuition, probably because we were true to them, or 

because we have a track record. They know that they perhaps could do it cheaper somewhere else. 

 They want to go there. That ties in with your question about choice. If the Pell grant, for 

example, were at the level that it could be, it would just make that choice better. And I think the 

promise is not so much that someone stood up and said, ``you can go to any particular school by 

name``; but the promise is in this country if you are poor and you do right, you can make it. That is 

the promise. It is not the school by name. And the promise I think of our legislators and those in 

charge of budgets with our help is to do everything that we can do to make the financial support as 

high as it can be. That is the way I see it. 

Ms. Woolsey. Dr. Garcia. 

Ms. Garcia. Just to add one note to that. I have personally talked to many, many students who will 

decide to become an LPN, which is a one-year certificate program, because they don't think they 

can afford an associate degree or a baccalaureate degree to become a registered nurse. 
37

 I have talked to students who prefer, who have made a decision to become nurses and not 

go to medical school for the same reason, or students who want to go into engineering and 

technology with a two year degree, not being able to see beyond to the baccalaureate degree. 

 So, yes, ma'am, I think career choices, we see it on our campus every day, are related to 

what a student expects that they will be able to receive in aid, or for the abhorrence of and the fear 

of taking out loans that would be overwhelming for them. 

Ms. Woolsey. Thank you. 

Chairman Boehner. I thank the gentle lady. 

 The chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Hinojosa. 

Mr. Hinojosa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I first want to compliment each and every one of the 

presenters. I think you all did an excellent job and, as some of the other folks have said, your 

information is very informative and helpful to us as we proceed. 

 I also want to compliment you and the individuals responsible for producing the report 

under discussion today. My first question is going to be addressed to Dr. Juliet Garcia. Dr. Garcia, 

you have a history of high quality accomplishments, and today is one more example of your 

brilliant contributions. And we thank you. 

 In our own state of Texas, our post-secondary institutions are supposed to accommodate 

500,000 new students by the year 2015. The growth of students seeking higher educational 

opportunities in the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas is five times greater than throughout the 

state of Texas. 

 Given all of that background, Dr. Garcia, would you please give the committee your 

assessment and the implications of your report on the border communities, which you and I 

represent? 

 And include please in your response the impact that the Gear Up program is having 

nationally, and how it differs from the TRIO programs because there is a great deal of confusion 

amongst the 435 congressman, or at least some, thinking that that is a duplication of programs. 

And you and I know that is not. 

 So, with that, would you respond? 

Ms. Garcia. Thank you, congressman. And please know how much we appreciate the fact that you 

are such a strong advocate for work force development, for higher education, and for access in 

total. 

 As you have described so well, what we feel in Texas is that tidal wave, or the baby boom 

echo as has been described in research; that is, the second tidal wave of students that are going to 

look a whole lot like Dr. Lewis, and like Elizabeth, and myself more than they are, excuse me, Mr. 
38

Gladieux.

 That baby boom echo is going to be more minorities, and it is going to be more female, and 

it is going to be poor. And so, while we feel the strain today of Pell not providing enough money 

per student, when we have that baby boom echo, then approach the need for distributing that Pell 

among even more students. 

 The strain is going to be hurtful beyond whatever we are feeling right now. And that is one 

of the reasons we are asking for immediate and continuous long-term strategies to increase Pell 

over time. 

 In response specifically to your question about South Texas, as you know, even our state 

comptroller, Carol Keelen Wielander, has just produced a report that says and affirms what we 

have heard for many years; that is, that the growth in the South Texas border region is going to be 

the fastest growth in the state of Texas. And it will grow by 232 percent over the next 30 years. 

 Our university, I mentioned earlier, is one of the fastest growing universities in the state of 

Texas. South Texas Community College that you helped dream and start, in fact, is the fastest 

growing community college in the state of Texas, also in the valley. 

 We are running as fast as we can. And we always had the sense of urgency. And I 

apologize if it comes across too strong sometimes, but the sense of urgency. And the sense of 

urgency is the community is growing faster than we are. 

 As fast as we grow, as efficient as we try to become, as we try to produce more with less, 

and our faculty teach four classes, and 30 percent of them teach five classes per semester. We still 

are not able to keep up with this tidal wave of need. 

 Now add to that a characteristic of the people in South Texas, and in many communities 

like this. We have half of the educational attainment rate today as the average state of Texas. That 

means already we start with a backlog of folks who have dropped out of school years ago, who 

would like to come back to school. 

 So we have a population that is just trying to get to average, and at the same time is growing 

faster than the population of the state of Texas. 

 So one final remark, if we do nothing to change that pattern, imagine what the state of 

Texas will look like. It will look like me, but it won't be one who is producing in the labor market. 

It will be a person who is draining the labor market. 

 It is not a producer. It is not propulsion of the economic growth of a state. There is an 

estimate that came out two years ago that said that if Blacks and Hispanics in the state of Texas 

went to college and succeeded at college at the same rate of the non-Hispanic white, we would 

have increased the economic growth rate of the state of Texas by two percent. 
39

 That is the strongest economic engine. High tech doesn't provide that kind of growth in one 

year. So our effort is to run as fast as we can knowing that the tidal wave approaches, and knowing 

that even if we continue at this pace, unless something drastic occurs in federal, state, and 

institutional policy, we won't end up successfully at the end. 

Mr. Hinojosa. Mr. Chairman, I know that the time is beyond the five minute limit, but I would like 

to hear from Dr. Lewis, as how the committee sees the difference of Gear Up and TRIO, and how it 

is giving our minority children access to college. 

Ms. Lewis. Well, through Paine College's participation in the TRIO programs, we have a 

marvelous relationship with high potential or potentially high potential students at an early enough 

age to get hold of them, to help them make decisions, to help them know what is available, to get 

them actually on a college campus to see that it is not a particularly foreign place, to get them 

pointed in the direction of higher educational access. 

 We have a terrific relationship between the participants in the Upward Bound program, for 

example, which go through the program for the number of years that requires almost all of them to 

go to college. We would like for all of them to come to Paine College. They don't all come. But 

because Paine College exists, they have a chance to interact with our faculty and our staff. They go 

right on either to Paine or to some other college. It is about 90 percent. And without that program, 

I think we would lose most of those kids. 

Mr. Hinojosa. You said that that was the benefit of our TRIO program. What about the Gear Up 

program, which is only in its third year? 

Ms. Lewis. Well, we are not interacting with Gear Up, so I don't have any comments about it. 

Mr. Hinojosa. Could you answer that, Dr. Garcia? 

Ms. Garcia. Yes, sir, if I might. I asked for our folks that are in Gear Up, as you know, we have 

one of the Gear Up grants, I said, ``How do you know you're having impact?'' And she said, ``well, 

you know, we are only three years into this, and the real test will be do these students go to college 

eventually?'' 

 And I said I still want to know how you know if it is having impact. She said to me, ``here 

is how I can tell you it is.'' Other students that we are working with in the five school districts that 

we include in our Gear Up Program, she said the parents, in one case, of this one small group she 

was working with, she said almost half of the parents of the kids are back in college. 

 That was never the intent of Gear Up. That is an ancillary and wonderful effect. By having 

learned, they have gone to the programs that they have for parents to inform their own children 

about college. They have learned how you do it. They have met on our campus, et cetera. That 

has caused then behavior ancillary and very positive. 

Chairman Boehner. The gentleman's time has expired. 
40

Mr. Hinojosa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE RUBEN HINOJOSA, COMMITTEE ON 

EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. – SEE APPENDIX H 

Chairman Boehner. The chair recognizes the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Payne, for five 

minutes. 

Mr. Payne. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I am glad I am last, because, evidently, 

you are giving more time to us at the bottom end. So I will certainly stay within my ten minutes. 

 Secondly, you know, it is my birthday today. So will you give me an extra two or three 

minutes? 

Chairman Boehner. Mr. Payne, you shouldn't have told me that. This is your birthday song. It 

doesn't last too long. Hey! 

Mr. Payne. I usually put my foot in it. But let me commend the panel. As a matter of fact, I 

would like to also commend the chairman for having a panel that, this is the first time under his 

leadership that I have had a panel that I agree with everyone. 

 So it is really an anomaly. It doesn't happen often. And I am sure it is probably the last 

time. It was probably done by mistake, or maybe it was done because it is my birthday. I don't 

know. But whatever the reason, I think it is great. 

 And I would like to commend the chairman about his becoming the chairman of this 

committee. His picture will one day be on the wall like these gentlemen, and that is quite an 

achievement. 

 And I say that because in many instances we go from the particular to the universal. And I 

don't think that is the best premise to do what Ms. Rivers, Ms. Woolsey; I could tell you some 

stories. And it is good that we have been able to make it. 

 But, in many instances, we find that people say, well, because I did it, you know, everyone 

should be able to do it. And I think that is, you know, that is why there is only one president at a 

time because 280 million people aren't going to be president. 

 And so, I think that we have to caution ourselves. And I think that the young lady who 

wanted to go to another university because of the fear, I think it was Elizabeth that you would do 

better in a smaller school. 

 Really I think the fear factor of going to a large institution is not so unusual. I don't think 

that the title, ``Empty Promises,'' and that President Nixon made a stupid statement when he said 

everybody should go to college, I think it was a smart statement. 
41

 In fact, if we are able to bring everyone in, we become more productive. And I guess it is 

also good to be last because even the ranking member was very concerned about those 400,000 that 

don't go to college and wants the challenge that no one really knows why they don't go, and there is 

not enough information to empirically tell what the reasons are. 

 However, we know that only in the lower 35 percent, 35,000 and under, only 40 percent of 

the kids seek higher education; whereas, the 82,000 and above 85 percent go. So even if you take 

that by itself, you have to be a little slow not to figure that dollars have a little something to do. 

You almost are at a 90 percent level. 

 And so the question about promises, too, I think that in our preamble to the Constitution, we 

talk about we want to promote the general welfare, also provide for the common defense. And 

these are things that I think are promises made. And we are certainly providing for the common 

defense, which we should, $360 billion a year. 

 But when we look at some of the promoting the general welfare education, and things of 

that nature, I think we are falling far short. Another thing I did want to mention is that the tax 

credit move is middle income. And I think that middle income needs relief. 

 However, it is hurting from the Pell grants because it is taking more money out of potential 

dollars to help education. But we find that that is a trend. We find that low-income people are run 

against these days. You don't run for them in most instances, and the earned income tax credit had 

doubled the number of investigations by the IRS. That is people who are under $35,000. They 

doubled investigating those folks to try to catch the cheats, and reduced by 50 percent those in the 

very high-income bracket. 

 So we have a country that is sort of moving, I think, in the wrong direction. It is trouncing 

down on the guy at the bottom. And that seems to be a winning way these days. 

 I want to ask a question perhaps before my time runs out. And the Hope Program, for 

example, that is a Georgia program that has been touted, and you said it was good. However, I kind 

of wonder if any kid who gets a B average or so can go to any Georgia higher institution with this 

stipend from the state. 

 And what I understand is that many wealthy kids who would normally perhaps go out of 

state or go somewhere else are staying in Georgia and are using that taxpayer's money when they 

really don't need it because they are affluent. 

 And so, when you take a look at the Hope Program, which has been touted as being so 

great, if in the final analysis it would appear to me that lower income kids who have to maintain, 

they could go in any school they wanted to, but then they have to maintain that average coming 

from poor elementary schools, even though their B may not be equivalent to or wouldn't be a B if 

they were at another school that had a higher academic achievement. They are going to probably 

lose out as time goes on by not being able to maintain that level at the college. 
42

 And so, I guess my question is even though Hope is touted as a great thing, in your opinion, 

do you think it is the best thing for the state, or could there be some other way that it could be 

adjusted? 

Ms. Lewis. Well, if I were going to be able to design the Hope scholarship, I would design it a 

slightly different way. I said that it was a great thing for Paine College. That is because 90 percent 

of our students are financial aid- dependent and from low-income families. 

 So what Hope does for us is anyone who has the grade point average also tends to have 

need. And so it is a very neat package for Paine College. And we do a better job with our Hope 

students than many other institutions, particularly, I think, because we understand the population, 

which is predominantly participating in it, and because we are a school that takes very special and 

personal care with students. 

 So, from our perspective, it works very, very well. I think though the guidelines for Hope, it 

would be good if they did give a higher percentage to students with financial need. But in addition 

to that, I think once you get in college, that your ability to keep Hope ought to be based on good 

progress, not necessarily maintaining a B-plus average. Lots of people that turn out to be academic 

superstars start off a little peculiarly in their freshman year, Shirley Lewis included. 

 So I think that the requirements are unrealistic in many cases, are too severe for what the 

outcome is intended to be, which is completion of college. And if I were shaping it, I would 

certainly give more to students who have financial need. But at Paine that is kind of not really an 

issue because of the kind of population we have. 

Mr. Payne. Thank you and just one-half of a question. I saw you go and put your finger on the 

button. But Paine College, as a former teacher myself, I see that Paine College really puts out a lot 

of teachers, and I am sure the minority teachers. And statistics indicate that about 40 percent of 

elementary school children are going to be minority kids. 

Ms. Lewis. Yes. 

Mr. Payne. However, 90 percent of the teachers in our nation are not minority folks. And so I 

wonder if you had your way, what could you suggest about schools like yours, or how you could 

have a better impact on the overall number of teachers? 

 I think it is a great profession. Like I said, I did that for the first 10 years of my career and 

loved it. Is there anything you would suggest as a teaching college that attracts minorities, of 

course, to try to increase that number? 

Ms. Lewis. Yes, the first thing that I would love to see happen for Paine College, and actually for 

all institutions, is enough financial support to enable our higher aspiring students, and our 

potentially high aspiring students to be able to give their primary attention to their academics. 

 What happens with students who do come from schools that perhaps do not have as strong a 

reputation as some others, or children who come from environments that are not environmentally 
43

as nurturing as some environments are for some students? Those students need a lot. They need a 

lot of attention. They need a lot of direction. And we know historically from the existence of the 

Paine College and other schools like that that those students can turn out to be absolutely 

magnificent scholars. 

 With help, if they could focus on their academics, and not have to focus on a 40-hour job, 

or a 20-hour job, or $20,000 loans, I think they would make better progress. And I also think 

schools, which produce students who will serve in at-risk communities; those schools should have 

extra incentives, no matter who comes. We could benefit greatly by having more support of that 

nature.

 And I would also like to say two things. I won't sing. But I would like to say happy 

birthday. And you have a fabulous last name. 

Mr. Payne. That is right. Thank you. 

Chairman Boehner. Well, thank you, Mr. Payne. We appreciate your questions. Let me just say 

to the witnesses, thank you for your valuable input today. As we move toward our preparations for 

the reauthorization of the Higher Education Act next year, this information will be a great help to 

us.

 Let me thank my colleagues for their interest in the hearing today, and their participation.

And, with that, the committee is adjourned. 

Ms. Lewis. Thank you. Thank you. 

 [Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 
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TABLE OF INDEXES 

Chairman Boehner, 1, 4, 5, 8, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 24, 26, 28, 31, 33, 35, 37, 39, 40, 43 

Mr. Andrews, 26, 27, 28 

Mr. Gladieux, 5, 10, 16, 18, 19, 23, 25, 26, 27, 28, 32, 33 

Mr. Hinojosa, 37, 39, 40 

Mr. Isakson, 20, 21 

Mr. Keller, 24, 25, 26 

Mr. McKeon, 28, 29, 30 

Mr. Miller, 4, 17, 18, 19 

Mr. Norwood, 4 

Mr. Payne, 40, 42, 43 

Mr. Scott, 21, 22, 23, 24 

Mr. Tancredo, 33, 34, 35 

Ms. Garcia, 6, 15, 18, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 30, 32, 34, 35, 36, 37, 39 

Ms. Lewis, 8, 15, 16, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 32, 36, 39, 42, 43 

Ms. Rivers, 31, 33 

Ms. Sengkhammee, 12, 14, 15, 17, 25, 26, 28, 33, 34 

Ms. Woolsey, 35, 36, 37