### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 1 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

+ + + + + OFFICE OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY

+ + + + + BUILDING TECHNOLOGIES PROGRAM

+ + + + + PUBLIC MEETING

ENERGY CONSERVATION PROGRAM: TEST PROCEDURES FOR FLUORESCENT LAMP BALLASTS

+ + + + + FEBRUARY 2, 2009

+ + + + +

The meeting convened at the Forrestal Building, 1000 Independence Avenue, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20585, at 10:30 a.m., Doug Brookman, Facilitator, presiding.

PRESENT: DOUG BROOKMAN, Facilitator, Department of Energy DIANA BURK, Navigant Consulting LINDA GRAVES, Department of Energy PEKKA HAKKARAINEN, Lutron/NEMA DAIN HANSEN, NEMA MICHAEL MEYER, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory CONAN O'ROURKE, Lighting Research Center FRANCINE PINTO, Department of Energy

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 2 TABLE OF CONTENTS

PAGE I. Introductions 3 II. Opening Remarks -- III. Regulatory History: Interpretation 7 of Active Mode, Standby Mode, and Off Mode IV. Scope of Applicability 9 V. Presentation on Standby Mode 17 Overview VI. New Test Conditions for Measuring 29 Standby Mode Power VII. Test Procedure Measurements and 30 Burdens VIII. Other Issues and Comments 37 IX. Closing Remarks 38

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (10:39 a.m.) 3 MS. GRAVES: Good morning, and 4 welcome to the U.S. Department of Energy. 5 This is the meeting on test procedures for 6 fluorescent lamp ballasts in standby mode. 7 I am Linda Graves. I am the 8 Project Leader for lighting standards for the 9 Department, and I am being joined by 10 contractors on my team. 11 The purpose of today's meeting is 12 to present to you the test procedures DOE is 13 proposing and to seek your comment on this 14 test procedure. We have specific issues that 15 we would particularly like to receive your 16 comments on, and we will also be discussing 17 the next steps, what happens after the public 18 comment period. 19 This meeting will be run by our 20 able Facilitator, Doug Brookman, and so right 21 now I am going to turn it over to Doug. 22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 4 1 Linda. 2 It is our tradition to ask for 3 each person to introduce him or herself. So 4 maybe we could start with that, and I'll start 5 with Francine. Name and organizational 6 affiliation. 7 MS. PINTO: I'm Francine Pinto 8 from the General Counsel's Office in the 9 Department of Energy. 10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 11 MR. HAKKARAINEN: I'm Pekka 12 Hakkarainen. I work for Lutron Electronics, 13 and I am the Vice Chair of NEMA's Lighting 14 Systems Division. 15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 16 You may need to pull these microphones a 17 little closer to you. 18 MR. HAKKARAINEN: I'm sorry. 19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: That's 20 good. Okay. We heard that. Thank you. 21 MR. HANSEN: My name is Dain 22 Hansen with NEMA, and I work in NEMA's

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 5 1 Government Relations. 2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 3 MS. BURK: I'm Diana Burk, and I 4 work with Navigant Consulting. 5 MR. FERRERA: I'm Chris Sequeira. 6 I'm with Navigant Consulting. 7 MR. O'ROURKE: Conan O'Rourke, 8 Lighting Research Center. 9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 10 Okay. 11 So I think all of you received a 12 copy of the agenda, along with the packet of 13 slides and the proposed rule, as published in 14 the Federal Register. I'm just going to run 15 through the agenda really quick. 16 Following this agenda review, 17 there is an opportunity for anybody that 18 wishes to do so to make opening remarks, brief 19 comments about the issues that matter most to 20 you. Following that, we are going to plunge 21 right into the regulatory history and an 22 interpretation of active mode, standby mode,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 6 1 and off mode, and go from there to the scope 2 of applicability. 3 Following that, we will have a 4 presentation followed by discussion on standby 5 mode overview. Following that, new test 6 conditions for measuring standby mode power, 7 and then proceeding -- test procedure 8 measurements and burdens, and then other 9 issues and comments and closing remarks. 10 There is that opportunity, as we 11 get to around about noon or so today for 12 anybody that wishes to make additional 13 comments, say anything additional on the 14 record that you think is important, before we 15 adjourn at 12:45 today. So that's the plan. 16 Questions/comments here at the 17 outset? 18 (No response.) 19 Okay. So, then, now is an 20 opportunity for anybody that wishes to do so 21 to make brief summary remarks about issues, 22 should you have any.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 7 1 (No response.) 2 No? Not at this point. Okay. So 3 we will proceed, then. 4 MS. GRAVES: So I would like to 5 just very briefly go over the regulatory 6 history for this rule. It starts with the 7 Energy Policy and Conservation Act of 1975, 8 which established energy conservation 9 standards and the methods of test procedure 10 development for consumer products. 11 This was followed by amendments to 12 the National Appliance Energy Conservation, 13 which added fluorescent lamp ballasts as 14 covered products, required development of a 15 test procedure, set minimum efficiency 16 standards, and required DOE to review those 17 standards periodically. 18 Then, in 1989, DOE established 19 fluorescent lamp ballast test procedures, and 20 then, more recently, the Energy Independence 21 and Security Act of 2007 required DOE to amend 22 the fluorescent lamp ballast test procedures

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 8 1 to address standby and off modes. All of this 2 is described at much greater detail in the 3 Authority and Background Section of the Notice 4 of Proposed Rulemaking. 5 Thank you. 6 MS. BURK: Hello. My name is 7 Diana Burk, and I am with Navigant Consulting. 8 I will be discussing DOE's interpretation of 9 active mode, standby mode, and off mode, and 10 then talking about which ballasts are covered 11 by this rulemaking. And then, I will -- 12 finally, Conan will get to the real heart of 13 the test procedure, talk about what it is, the 14 new test conditions it requires, and any 15 burdens it may place on manufacturers. 16 To truly understand what standby 17 mode and off mode means, DOE must first 18 interpret the definition of active mode. EPCA 19 defines active mode as the condition in which 20 an energy-using product satisfies three 21 criteria -- the energy-using product must be 22 connected to a main power source, it must be

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 9 1 activated, and it must provide one or more 2 main functions. 3 DOE believes a ballast is in 4 active mode if it is operating one or more 5 fluorescent lamps. In this case, the ballast 6 is connected to mains, it's activated, it is 7 providing a regulated current for those lamps, 8 and it is providing its main function of 9 operating those lamps. 10 To account for both dimmable and 11 non-dimmable ballasts, DOE defines active mode 12 as when the lamp and ballast system exhibits 13 any non-zero level of light output. 14 Therefore, active mode exists when light 15 output is greater than zero percent. 16 So right now we would like to 17 invite comment on DOE's interpretation of 18 active mode, if anybody has any comments. 19 (No response.) 20 Okay. So now we go on to standby 21 mode. EPCA defines standby mode as the 22 condition in which an energy-using product

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 10 1 satisfies two conditions. The first condition 2 is that it must be connected to a main power 3 source. The second condition is that it must 4 offer one or more user-oriented or protective 5 functions listed below. 6 It could facilitate the activation 7 or deactivation of other functions, like the 8 active mode function, by remote switch, 9 internal sensor, or timer. It could also have 10 continuous functions, including information or 11 status displays, or any sensor-based 12 functions. 13 For this test procedure, DOE is 14 focusing on two aspects of the EPCA definition 15 -- connection to a main power source, its 16 ability to facilitate the activation or 17 deactivation of other functions by remote 18 switch or internal sensor. 19 DOE believes that the vast 20 majority of ballasts do not enter standby 21 mode. When they are not -- when the lamp and 22 ballast system is not emitting any light, the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 11 1 ballasts are turned off via switch. That 2 would disconnect the ballast from main's 3 power, so they don't satisfy the first 4 criteria of standby mode that they are 5 connected to mains. 6 However, DOE does believe that 7 standby mode does apply to certain ballasts 8 that have lighting control systems. At zero 9 light output, the ballast is consuming energy 10 while awaiting instruction from the lighting 11 control system to tell it to turn on. In this 12 case, the ballast is connected to main. It is 13 -- and it is -- so it satisfies the first 14 criteria, and it satisfies the second 15 criterion that it is facilitating the 16 activation or deactivation of its active mode 17 function. 18 DOE invites comment on this 19 interpretation of standby mode for ballasts. 20 If anybody has any comments? No? 21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So just to 22 be clear, these definitions, these two that we

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 12 1 have laid out so far, you all are comfortable 2 with those two? 3 MR. HANSEN: Yes, so far. 4 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Yes. 5 MR. HANSEN: I mean, yes. 6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you, 7 Dain and Pekka, both. Thank you. 8 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Yes. As far as 9 the definitions go, correct. 10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Right. 11 Okay. 12 MS. BURK: Now I move on to off 13 mode. EPCA defines off mode as the condition 14 in which an energy-using product satisfies two 15 criteria. It must be connected to mains, and 16 it must not provide any standby or active mode 17 function. And EISA requires DOE to address 18 off mode in this test procedure. 19 DOE believes that off mode does 20 not apply to fluorescent lamp ballasts. The 21 ballast in this system is producing any amount 22 of light that -- the ballast is in active

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 13 1 mode. At zero light output, DOE believes the 2 ballast is in one of two conditions. 3 The ballast could either be 4 connected to mains, while waiting for lighting 5 control instructions, and that ballast would 6 be considered to be in standby mode. And if 7 it's not in standby mode, DOE believes that 8 the ballast would be disconnected from the 9 main power source, which would not meet the 10 first criteria of off mode. So DOE proposes 11 not to incorporate a test method for off mode 12 energy consumption. 13 And, right now, we are inviting 14 comment on this interpretation of off mode. 15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Should 16 there be any additional comments? I see none. 17 Okay. 18 MS. BURK: Okay. So which 19 ballasts are applicable to this test 20 procedure? DOE is considering that standby 21 mode only applies to ballasts that incorporate 22 a lighting control interface. Although DOE

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 14 1 does not currently cover many of the ballasts 2 that have a lighting control interface, like 3 T8 ballasts or dimming ballasts currently, DOE 4 does have the authority to cover these 5 ballasts in the ballast energy conservation 6 standards rulemaking, which was initiated 7 January of last year. 8 So right now we would like to 9 invite comment on DOE's interpretation of 10 which ballasts are covered by this test 11 procedure. 12 (No response.) 13 No comment? 14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: No comments 15 on the coverage. Okay. 16 MS. BURK: Okay. The fluorescent 17 lamp ballast standby and off mode test 18 procedure final rule -- EISA deadline is March 19 31, 2009. The effective date of this test 20 procedure will become -- will be 30 days after 21 its publication in the Federal Register. 22 However, we want you guys to know

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 15 1 that this standby test procedure final rule 2 will not change how manufacturers measure and 3 established compliance with existing energy 4 conservation standards. Manufacturers will 5 only have to use this test procedure if 6 standby mode energy conservation standards are 7 adopted in the energy conservation standards 8 rulemaking. And that final rule will be in 9 June 2011, and it will not become effective 10 until at least three years after that rule, 11 which is June of 2014. 12 DOE is planning to initiate a test 13 procedure rulemaking in 2009 to review and 14 possibly amend the active mode efficiency 15 measurement of ballasts. In this test 16 procedure, DOE will consider updating the 17 references to industry standards, so that they 18 harmonize with the reference standards and 19 today's proposed standby mode test procedure. 20 And Conan will discuss that a little bit more 21 in his section. 22 Now, Conan can take over.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 16 1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So before 2 we ask, Dain, please. 3 MR. HANSEN: I just have a quick 4 question. This is Dain Hansen with NEMA.

5 MS. BURK: Sure. 6 MR. HANSEN: Just some 7 clarification. So the deadline is March 31, 8 2009. 9 MS. BURK: Right. 10 MR. HANSEN: And then, the 11 comments aren't due until a week after that, 12 is that correct? 13 MS. BURK: Yes. 14 MR. HANSEN: Okay. I just wanted 15 to make sure. 16 MS. PINTO: This is Francine 17 Pinto. There is a 75-day comment period -- 18 MR. HANSEN: Okay. 19 MS. PINTO: -- for test 20 procedures. So, obviously, we will not 21 publish a final rule by March 31st. 22 MR. HANSEN: Great. Thank you.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 17 1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 2 And before we move on to Conan, are there any 3 other comments or issues that you wish to 4 raise on the slides that we have presented so 5 far? 6 (No response.) 7 Okay. 8 MR. O'ROURKE: Thank you, Diana. 9 This is Conan O'Rourke from the Lighting 10 Research Center, and I am going to be covering 11 the next three sections dealing with the 12 standby mode overview, new test conditions for 13 measuring standby mode power, and the test 14 procedure measurements and burden. 15 So just generally talking, Diana 16 has already presented this, but the standby 17 mode for fluorescent lamp ballasts really only 18 applies to the part of the lighting system 19 that is controlling the part of the ballast 20 that is connected to the lighting system. 21 In standby mode, we are talking 22 that the ballast should be operating the lamp

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 18 1 such that there would be no light output 2 coming from the lamps, and there may be some 3 energy consumed within the ballast while it is 4 awaiting a control signal. 5 So in the diagram we are showing 6 here, we have as inputs the main input power 7 control signal, and on the output we have no 8 current going to the lamps for the zero light 9 output. And standby power, in this case we 10 are talking about any input power or any power 11 coming from the control signal itself. 12 So the method for measurement of 13 standby power, it would be sending a signal to 14 the ballast to put it into the standby mode, 15 and be measuring input power and watts in 16 accordance with ANSI Standard C82.2-2002, 17 Section 13. And there are many possible ways 18 to apply a control signal, and in this test 19 procedure we are discussing the alternating 20 current, or AC signal, direct current, DC 21 signal, a power line carrier signal, and we do 22 make a comment about any wireless type of

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 19 1 signals. 2 We estimate that it would be far 3 less than a watt for any irradiated power 4 through a wireless signal. So for this 5 purpose it is not part of this test procedure 6 discussion. 7 So for the AC control signal, here 8 we are just showing a diagram that is similar 9 to what is found in current ANSI Standards, 10 showing where we have input power coming from 11 the AC control voltage and being applied to 12 the terminals at the ballast. And we are 13 measuring wattage and also to measure voltage 14 in current. So this would be anything applied 15 by a separate set of wires that would be for 16 the purpose of putting the ballast into 17 standby mode. 18 For the direct current control 19 signal, this again is some additional set of 20 wires that would be connected to the ballast 21 to supply this signal. And as in the last 22 diagram, we are showing that the signal is

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 20 1 coming from some DC control signal and being 2 applied to some separate terminals at the 3 ballast, measuring voltage and current to 4 determine the power. 5 So in this case, it would be just 6 a multiplication of that voltage and current 7 to determine what the power would be. 8 Any questions on this? Pekka? 9 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Yes. Pekka 10 Hakkarainen with Lutron. I am not clear on 11 the rationale for including the control signal 12 power. 13 MR. O'ROURKE: The only -- 14 MR. HAKKARAINEN: If I can just 15 finish the statement. The power that is 16 dissipated in that is often not originating in 17 the ballast, but it can be originating in 18 other equipment. So I am not understanding 19 why that definition is included in the ballast 20 standby power. 21 MR. O'ROURKE: It is correct that 22 the control unit itself may be using

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 21 1 additional power that does not apply here. 2 But what applies here is if there is some 3 significant amount of power that is being 4 supplied to the ballast, and the ballast is 5 using that power, we will want to make sure we 6 are able to account for that. 7 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Is it clear that 8 this method of measurement captures only what 9 is consumed in the ballast? 10 MR. O'ROURKE: Yes, because it 11 would be measuring it from in between the 12 control signal being applied to the ballast 13 this would be at the terminals of the ballast. 14 So you would be making this right at the 15 ballast terminals for this DC or AC or other 16 type of connection. 17 So it wouldn't be, say, upstream 18 where you have the time clock or some other 19 building automation system. This would just 20 be at the ballast input. So any current that 21 would be measured would be current going into 22 the ballast and being used by the ballast and

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 22 1 only the ballast. 2 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Well, the 3 diagram that you show is symmetric relative to 4 the ballast and the -- 5 MR. O'ROURKE: Control system. 6 MR. HAKKARAINEN: -- control 7 device. 8 MR. O'ROURKE: Correct. 9 MR. HAKKARAINEN: So it could be 10 argued that it equally measures -- it measures 11 the power dissipation potentially in the 12 control device as well. 13 MR. O'ROURKE: It only -- 14 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Or may have a 15 component of that. I just want to make sure 16 that we carefully isolate what is actually -- 17 MR. O'ROURKE: Yes. 18 MR. HAKKARAINEN: -- consumed in 19 the ballast. 20 MR. O'ROURKE: Yes. This is the 21 intent, just to measure the input at the 22 ballast.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 23 1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And you do 2 carefully isolate. That is, you are measuring 3 the front end there, right? 4 MR. O'ROURKE: That's correct. 5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 6 MS. PINTO: This is Francine 7 Pinto. Maybe to just make sure that this is 8 clear, maybe you could point to the regulatory 9 text -- 10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 11 MS. PINTO: -- so that our 12 commenters/stakeholders can look at it and see 13 if it does isolate it. 14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Right. 15 MS. PINTO: Maybe you can find -- 16 MR. O'ROURKE: Well, we drew these 17 diagrams as they appear in the ANSI Standards 18 right now for making input power measurements. 19 So we tried to make them all using the same 20 kind of language, same kind of drawings, that 21 would be similar to what is already in the 22 ANSI Standard test procedures.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 24 1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: How would 2 this diagram be different to reflect your 3 concern and isolate the -- would it be -- 4 would you move the control signal overall?

5 MR. HAKKARAINEN: I'm not sure 6 that I would design that circuit in -- you 7 know, on the spot. I am -- 8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 9 MR. HAKKARAINEN: -- actually not 10 an electronics engineer, so I would just like

11 -- 12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Nor are you 13 a graphic designer probably. 14 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Right. Nor am I 15 a graphic designer. 16 (Laughter.) 17 So I would just like to have the 18 opportunity to examine and make suggestions at 19 another time perhaps. 20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Right. Do 21 we have the citation that Francine was 22 referencing? Can we get that? Can we provide

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 25 1 that specific -- Diana, you'll need to find a 2 microphone. 3 MS. BURK: The figure up here is 4 that 3.5.3.2. 5 MS. GRAVES: Do you want to 6 identify yourself? 7 MS. BURK: My name is Diana Burk, 8 and the citation for the figure appears in the 9 Federal Register notice on page 743461 -- 74 10 FR 3461. 11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And you 12 have a copy of that Federal Register notice in 13 your packet, Pekka. 14 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Okay. 15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 16 MS. BURK: And the comment period 17 is open until April 6th, so -- 18 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Okay. 19 MS. BURK: -- you can submit a 20 written comment. 21 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Very good. 22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 26 1 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Thank you. 2 MR. O'ROURKE: Thank you, Pekka. 3 The next power lines -- the next 4 control signal we are going to discuss is the 5 power line carrier signal. And in this case, 6 the power line carrier signal is supplied on 7 the same wires that the input power is 8 supplied to the ballast. So there are no 9 additional wiring. 10 So the key to being able to make 11 this measurement clearly, is that you would 12 have to be able to filter out the 60 Hertz 13 power in order to measure the higher frequency 14 power line carrier signal properly. We also 15 give guidance that the meter must be capable 16 of measuring this higher frequency signal that 17 it is trying to measure by a factor of 10 18 times greater than the signal being applied. 19 And this is measured the same way 20 where you have input power from, or the input 21 signal from the power line control voltage and 22 applied to the input terminals at the ballast.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 27 1 2 Any questions on this, Pekka? 3 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Other than 4 potentially the same concern as -- 5 MR. O'ROURKE: Right. I assume 6 that concern applies to all of these. 7 MR. HAKKARAINEN: No, no other 8 comments. 9 MR. O'ROURKE: Okay. Thank you. 10 And as I mentioned earlier, for 11 wireless control the Department believes that 12 there isn't going to be any appreciable amount 13 of power applied to the ballast. If you've 14 got wireless, it would be well less than a 15 watt. 16 One question we had received in 17 the past related to, well, how about the 18 receiver in the ballast? And it is the 19 Department's assumption that the receiver 20 power will be being drawn from the input to 21 the ballast. So if there was any receiver 22 power to be drawn, we would see it as input

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 28 1 power to the ballast, and it does not have to 2 have be counted separately as part of the 3 wireless power. 4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Any 5 comments on wireless? 6 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Pekka 7 Hakkarainen again. If I can -- my comment 8 here would be that this wireless situation is 9 actually cleaner than the wired situation. 10 And I am looking for the same kind of clarity 11 between the two. It is clear to me also that 12 the receiver power would be generated in the 13 ballast most likely, as opposed to the power 14 being carried wirelessly to the ballast. 15 MR. O'ROURKE: Okay. All right. 16 Thank you. 17 So in this slide we have two 18 issues. The Department invites any comments 19 in the proposed definitions of AC control 20 signal, DC control signal, power line carrier 21 control signal, and the wireless control 22 signal. I know we kind of dealt with those as

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 29 1 we went through them. Any other questions? 2 (No response.) 3 And the Department also invites 4 comments on the proposed methods for measuring 5 this power assumed by the control signal 6 system while the ballast is in the standby 7 mode. 8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Any 9 additional comments? 10 MR. HAKKARAINEN: No. No further 11 comment on these. 12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 13 MR. O'ROURKE: So next is the new 14 test conditions for measuring the standby mode 15 power. So currently the fluorescent ballast 16 active mode is using ANSI C82.2-1984 test 17 conditions. We are proposing in this standby 18 mode to use the current version of that, 19 C82.2-2002 edition. 20 The Department is considering 21 updating the rest of the ANSI Standards for 22 active mode throughout this rulemaking that is

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 30 1 in progress, and will couple with it a test 2 procedure for that active mode sometime later 3 in 2009. So the Department invites comments 4 on this method of handling the different test 5 conditions associated with the existing and 6 proposed new test procedure. 7 (No response.) 8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Nothing 9 additional? 10 (No response.) 11 No? Okay. Thanks. 12 MR. O'ROURKE: Okay. And last is 13 the test procedure measurements and burden. 14 The Department intends to study how best to 15 use its discrete measurements of the main 16 input power and control signal power in the 17 separate rulemaking. Again, this is just 18 setting up the method at which you'd evaluate 19 it, but how it will be used will be determined 20 later. And measurements will be used in the 21 energy conservation standard analysis for the 22 fluorescent lamp ballasts as well.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 31 1 So the Department invites any 2 comments on the approaches of combining the 3 measurements of the main input power and 4 control signal power into one metric. 5 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Other than what 6 I have already stated, no other comment on 7 that. 8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Do you have 9 something? Please. Yes. 10 MR. MEYER: Michael Meyer with 11 Pacific Northwest National Lab. Can I ask you 12 a question? With reporting the data -- 13 MR. O'ROURKE: You're going to 14 have to use one of these, Michael. 15 MR. MEYER: Michael Meyer, Pacific 16 Northwest National Laboratory. I just had a 17 question. With reporting the data, you are 18 taking the measurements in watt meter, so you 19 are combining the power and watts. Do you 20 also report the volt and amp data in the 21 alternating current and the power line 22 carrying data, since you are showing them in

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 32 1 the test setups? 2 MR. O'ROURKE: At this time, we 3 haven't gone through what is going to be 4 required as compliance data. 5 MR. MEYER: Okay. I was just 6 curious. 7 MR. O'ROURKE: So, again, those 8 were put in there because they were standard 9 measurements in the ANSI Standards, to show it 10 in that way. So we wanted to show it in a 11 similar manner. 12 MR. MEYER: Thank you. I was just 13 curious to know if they were required. 14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Since you 15 have raised it, I was wondering if the 16 industry has a preference for how this gets 17 expressed. 18 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Not right now. 19 If we do, we will provide written comment, but 20 -- 21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 22 MR. HAKKARAINEN: -- we will talk

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 33 1 to everyone about that. 2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 3 Thank you. 4 MR. O'ROURKE: Thank you, Michael. 5 MS. PINTO: This is Francine 6 again. So this particular issue of which kind 7 of reporting it is, that will be the subject 8 of a different rulemaking? 9 MR. O'ROURKE: Correct. 10 MS. PINTO: Okay. I just wanted 11 to know. 12 MR. O'ROURKE: So the burden of 13 regulations. For the test procedure, it 14 should measure power in an accurate and 15 repeatable manner, and the test procedure 16 should not unduly burden the manufacturers to 17 conduct this test. 18 The Department invites comments on 19 the issues of burden, including whether there 20 are ways that DOE could maintain accuracy and 21 repeatability without reducing the burden -- 22 while reducing. Sorry. While reducing the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 34 1 burden. 2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: While 3 reducing the burden, yes. So the questions 4 are -- comments about whether this is an 5 extraordinary burden, whether this is doable, 6 what do you think? 7 MR. HAKKARAINEN: This is Pekka 8 Hakkarainen. Let me start, I don't know if 9 this comment pertains to this meeting or 10 perhaps some future meeting, but what I have 11 in mind is that the ballasts that we are 12 talking about here today, generally speaking, 13 are dimming ballasts, controllable dimming 14 ballasts, which on average consume less total 15 energy than the ballasts that are by 16 definition now not included in the standby 17 mode power measurement or energy use 18 measurement. 19 So, then, the burden that exists 20 is to qualify ballasts that in some sense 21 inherently are more energy efficient already. 22 And I am just bringing this up as to whether

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 35 1 this is actually necessary for us to do in the 2 first place. 3 The products that this rulemaking 4 would regulate are generally accepted as more 5 energy efficient. It is -- I am concerned 6 that it would slow down the adoption of these 7 more energy efficient products. 8 MR. O'ROURKE: Just a followup 9 comment, Pekka. This also was meant to imply 10 that if new products do come to the market 11 that are not dimming ballasts that utilize 12 control signals, some type of control 13 mechanism, that it would cover them as well. 14 MR. HAKKARAINEN: I understand 15 that. 16 MR. O'ROURKE: Okay. 17 MR. HAKKARAINEN: Currently, what 18 is in the market there are to my knowledge no 19 such products. But I'm not sure. 20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Diana? 21 MS. BURK: Okay. DOE will decide 22 whether to cover dimming ballasts in the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 36 1 energy conservation standards rulemaking. 2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Speak up. 3 MS. BURK: DOE will consider 4 whether or not it wants to cover dimming 5 ballasts in the energy conservation standards 6 rulemaking. So DOE has not made a decision in 7 this rulemaking, whether it will set standby 8 mode energy conversation standards for dimming 9 ballasts yet. So -- 10 MR. HAKKARAINEN: So what you are 11 saying is that I was anticipating something 12 that hasn't actually happened yet. 13 MS. BURK: Yes. 14 (Laughter.) 15 MS. PINTO: This is Francine Pinto 16 from General Counsel. We are required to do 17 this test procedure. 18 MR. HAKKARAINEN: I understand. 19 MS. PINTO: Yes. So we do have to 20 comply with EISA. 21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 22 MR. HAKKARAINEN: And I have no

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 37 1 argument. 2 (Laughter.) 3 MR. O'ROURKE: Okay. And, lastly, 4 I have Linda to go over how to submit 5 comments. I mean, up to this point that is 6 what we have for the test procedure for 7 standby mode for fluorescent lamp ballasts. 8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So maybe we 9 will provide one more opportunity for anybody 10 that wishes to make additional comments at 11 this point before we talk about -- before 12 Linda describes how to submit comments and 13 that sort of thing. Any additional thoughts, 14 comments, concerns? 15 MR. HANSEN: This is Dain Hansen 16 with NEMA. We discussed this with many of our 17 lighting members from NEMA, and while some of 18 them -- while Pekka was able to be here, some 19 were not, and we'll formulate comments to -- 20 write our written comments. We don't foresee 21 too many major issues arising from that 22 rulemaking.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 38 1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 2 Thank you. That is helpful, and I appreciate 3 you running interference and doing the 4 collecting of those comments. The Department 5 really appreciates that. 6 MR. O'ROURKE: Thank you, Dain. 7 MS. GRAVES: Thank you for coming 8 to the meeting. We really do appreciate your 9 input. The comments that were made at today's 10 meeting will be captured on the transcript, 11 which is the official record of this meeting. 12 And so oral comments are also treated as 13 official comments and part of the docket of 14 this rulemaking. You may also make written 15 comments until the comment period ends. The 16 last day would be April 6th. 17 And the procedures for providing 18 comments are further detailed in the notice on 19 page 3459. But, basically, you can submit 20 comments by e-mail or by regular snail mail. 21 And I would just -- but please be sure to 22 identify your comment with either EERE-2008-

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 39 1 BT-TP-0007 or by the regulatory identification 2 number, which is 1904-AB77. 3 I am just going to ask our Court 4 Reporter to incorporate all of the information 5 on slide number 33, so I don't just repeat all 6 of these numbers to you. 7 And I think that's it. Thank you 8 very much for coming. 9 MS. PINTO: Hey, Linda, I have a 10 question. this is Francine again. If 11 comments are submitted by e-mail, do they need 12 to also send a signed original or not? 13 MS. GRAVES: Yes. Yes, they do 14 need to then send, as backup, a signed 15 original document to the address given. And 16 that is all detailed under the Submission of 17 Comments section in the Federal Register 18 notice. It is also explained on our webpage. 19 And I would just draw your 20 attention to the cover page of your 21 presentation materials at the bottom contains 22 the website address. And we will also be

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 40 1 posting the transcript of this meeting on that 2 website. 3 MR. HANSEN: This is Dain Hansen 4 again. When do you expect -- anticipate the 5 slides to be up on your website? 6 MS. GRAVES: I would say pretty 7 soon. It is not just us doing it. We have to 8 go through our encoder, but they have been 9 pretty responsive. I would anticipate a week 10 or two -- 11 MR. HANSEN: Okay. 12 MS. GRAVES: -- they should be up. 13 MR. HANSEN: Thank you. 14 MS. GRAVES: Yes. Okay. Anything 15 else? 16 (No response.) 17 Thank you very much for coming. 18 (Whereupon, at 11:13 a.m., the 19 proceedings in the foregoing matter were 20 concluded.)
21 22

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