U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

64–249 cc WASHINGTON : 2000

S. Hrg. 106–554

NOMINATIONS OF ALAN C. KESSLER AND CAROL

WALLER POPE

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON THE

NOMINATIONS OF ALAN C. KESSLER, OF PENNSYLVANIA, TO BE A GOVERNOR OF THE U.S. POSTAL SERVICE, AND CAROL WALLER POPE, OF

WASHINGTON, DC, TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY

MARCH 30, 2000

Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs

(

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office

U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402

(II)

COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

FRED THOMPSON, Tennessee, Chairman

WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware

TED STEVENS, Alaska

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico

THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania

JUDD GREGG, New Hampshire

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut

CARL LEVIN, Michigan

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois

ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey

MAX CLELAND, Georgia

JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina

HANNAH S. SISTARE, Staff Director and Counsel

DAN G. BLAIR, Senior Counsel

MICHAEL L. LOESCH, Counsel,

International Security, Proliferation, and Federal Services Subcommittee

JOYCE A. RECHTSCHAFFEN, Minority Staff Director and Counsel

PETER A. LUDGIN, Minority Professional Staff Member

NANCI E. LANGLEY, Minority Deputy Staff Director,

International Security, Proliferation, and Federal Services Subcommittee

DARLA D. CASSELL, Administrative Clerk

(III)

C O N T E N T S

Opening statements: Page

Senator Cochran ............................................................................................... 1

Senator Stevens ................................................................................................ 4

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 11

WITNESSES

THURSDAY, MARCH 30, 2000

Hon. Joseph R. Biden, Jr., a U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware .............. 1

Hon. Rick Santorum, a U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania ................ 3

Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, a Delegate in Congress from the District of

Columbia ............................................................................................................... 4

Alan C. Kessler, of Pennsylvania, nominated to be a Governor of the U.S.

Postal Service ....................................................................................................... 6

Carol Waller Pope, of Washington, DC, nominated to be a Member of the

Federal Labor Relations Authority ..................................................................... 8

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Kessler, Alan C.:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6

Biographical information ................................................................................. 15

Pre-hearing questionnaire ............................................................................... 40

Pope, Carol Waller:

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8

Biographical information ................................................................................. 61

Pre-hearing questionnaire ............................................................................... 71

(1)

NOMINATIONS OF ALAN C. KESSLER AND

CAROL WALLER POPE

THURSDAY, MARCH 30, 2000

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC.

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in room

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thad Cochran presiding.

Present: Senators Cochran and Stevens.

Senator COCHRAN [presiding.] The Committee will please come to

order.

Today we are pleased to have a hearing on the nominations of

Alan Kessler to be Governor of the U.S. Postal Service and Carol

Waller Pope to be a Member of the Federal Labor Relations Authority.

Mr. Kessler is nominated to serve a 9-year term as a Governor

of the U.S. Postal Service, and Ms. Pope is nominated to serve a

5-year term as a Member of the Federal Labor Relations Authority.

We welcome you both as well as those who have come to introduce you to the Committee this morning.

At this point, I am going to recognize the senior Senator from

Delaware—well, he is the senior Senator present from Delaware—

Mr. Biden, my good friend, and then, Rick Santorum, the distinguished Senator from Pennsylvania, who are both here to introduce

Mr. Kessler.

Senator COCHRAN. Senator Biden.

TESTIMONY OF THE HON. JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., A U.S.

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

Senator BIDEN. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

As your colleague who is among the most senior of senior

Senators from Alaska knows, I am the second-most senior junior

Senator in the United States, trumped only by Strom Thurmond’s

seniority over Senator Hollings. But I am happy and have been satisfied in that position for a long time, and I am honored to serve

with Bill Roth and to serve, ‘‘under’’ Bill Roth.

Mr. Chairman and Senator Stevens, I have the honor of introducing Alan Kessler, who is accompanied by his wife Gail and his

parents, Alan and Jo, who reside in my home State of Delaware.

I know you might ask, ‘‘Why is a Senator from Delaware speaking

on behalf of a resident of Philadelphia?’’ Well, aside from Alan

being a native of my State, as most of you know, the geographic

distance between my home town of Wilmington, Delaware and

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Philadelphia is only a few short miles, and because of this, as Senator Specter and Senator Santorum both know, I sometimes get involved in matters that I maybe should not be involved in in Pennsylvania, and they sometimes get involved in matters to help me

in my State of Delaware. So it has been a cooperative arrangement

which I have enjoyed.

I have known Alan Kessler for about 10 years, Mr. Chairman,

and aside from being an all-around good guy and native Delawarean, he is a graduate of my alma mater as well. He went on

to earn his juris doctorate from the University of Maryland Law

School.

Alan has been extremely involved in the Philadelphia community. He was a Township Commissioner in Lower Merion Township, which is about as big as my entire State in population, literally and not figuratively, from 1988 through 1999. In 1992, Alan

was co-chair of the Mayor’s Transition Committee for Philadelphia

Mayor Ed Rendell, and he is a past member of the Philadelphia

City Planning Commission.

In addition, in 1994, he was appointed by the President to serve

as Vice Chairman of the Presidential Congressional Commission on

Risk Assessment and Risk Management, and served in that post

until 1998.

Currently, he is not only a member of the Executive Committee

of Philadelphia 2000, but also a member of both the Executive

Committee of Central Philadelphia Development Corporation and

the Board of Directors of the Philadelphia Industrial Development

Corporation.

And, as if all this were not enough, he has been appointed by the

Pennsylvania Supreme Court to serve as chairman of the Continuing Legal Education Board.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, Alan is also somewhat of a legend in the

Philadelphia legal community due to the superb legal skills that he

has brought to some of the area’s most notable legal cases. He has

represented clients ranging from major corporations to local government, and he understands the value of public service as well as

the bottom line. This is an important and unique function that he

will bring, I think, to the Postal Service Commission, which has a

duty to serve all of us at a low rate.

Alan is someone whom I know many residents of the Philadelphia area have a great deal of respect and admiration for, and I

have every confidence that the savvy and talent that he brings will

make him an excellent addition to the Postal Service Board of Governors. Why he would want the job is beyond my comprehension,

but I am glad he does. Nine years sounded like a sentence you

were reading out. But it is, as we all know, an incredibly important

responsibility; it is something that the public has come to take for

granted as if it is automatic. As a matter of fact, with the experience of the four of us in here, I think we could probably all agree

that the public still thinks we somehow control all aspects of the

Postal Service when in fact we control very little of it. And that is

why I think it is so important that we pick people who we believe

will be able to bring professional credentials to that responsibility,

which will make one of the largest operations in the world function

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well and at the lowest possible cost to the consumer—in this case,

our constituents.

There is more to say about Alan, but I will leave that to others.

Let me just suggest that I think this is a first-rate, serious, professional nominee, and I want to thank—not that it is my position to

do so, and it may sound somewhat gratuitous and I do not mean

it that way—I want to thank Senator Santorum for the way in

which he has shepherded this along, and I thank him for allowing

me to go first.

I yield the floor.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you very much, Senator Biden.

Senator Santorum.

TESTIMONY OF HON. RICK SANTORUM, A U.S. SENATOR FROM

THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA

Senator SANTORUM. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I always defer to my senior colleagues, and certainly, to the very

distinguished and terrific Member from Delaware, thank you for

being here for Alan and for supporting the nomination.

I support the nomination, and I will not go through all the details. I think Joe covered them very adequately. Just let me comment on a couple of them.

First, I think Joe’s mention of understanding the bottom line is

very important. In Alan’s work at one of the most distinguished

law firms in Philadelphia, Wolf Block—a major law firm and an incredibly significant player in Philadelphia—he has represented

small companies, he has represented entrepreneurs, he has represented larger companies, all in the area of defense. Working with

those companies, I think he has a great understanding of that bottom line and an understanding of business and how business works

and how it works efficiently and best, and that understanding from

that perspective coupled with, as I know the Senator from Mississippi understands, that legal background, which is important to

understand the intricacies of how to deal with a variety of issues

that are going to come before the Postal Commission, I think are

very, very important.

Second, he has experience in the public sector. He is an elected

township commissioner. As Joe mentioned, Lower Merion Township

is one of the fastest-growing townships in Pennsylvania. It abuts

the City of Philadelphia. It is huge, it is diverse, and it is a very

complex political dynamic there, and he represents that area as a

commissioner, has held that commission, and again, I think understands the responsibility of public service in that regard as well as

the other appointments that he has had. He has also run for elected office.

So I think Alan brings a very good breadth of experience, of

background, and of education that could be very helpful to this

commission.

As I commented earlier, the Postal Commission is probably the

least partisan commission I can think of, and someone who has a

good, solid background and understanding of business and a bottom line, who has an understanding of the complexities of law that

you are going to have to deal with, plus the understanding of public service, I think is very well-suited for that.

4

So I heartily recommend him, and I want to thank you, Mr.

Chairman, in particular for your willingness to move forward expeditiously with this hearing. You did so above and beyond the call

of duty, and I just want to thank you personally for your great generosity in moving this nomination and this hearing expeditiously.

It is very much appreciated.

I also want to thank Senator Thompson for his work in getting

through the interviewing process and helping that along the way.

So, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you, Senator Santorum, for your eloquent statement as well. Thank you both.

I am going to now turn to Eleanor Holmes Norton, the Delegate

from the District of Columbia to the U.S. House of Representatives,

to introduce Carol Waller Pope.

TESTIMONY OF HON. ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, A

DELEGATE IN CONGRESS FROM THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Ms. NORTON. Thank you very much, Chairman Cochran.

It is a special pleasure for me to introduce Carol Waller Pope, a

distinguished citizen of this city who has earned her reputation in

the very agency to which she has been nominated to be a member,

the Federal Labor Relations Authority.

It is particularly gratifying to see a young lawyer work so hard

and move up the ranks, after having spent virtually her entire career at the agency and having served with such distinction that the

President of the United States would indeed name her a member

of the Authority, itself.

As you are aware, this agency deals in a rarified and specialized

branch of labor law and labor management relations. So, it is particularly helpful to have a member who has spent virtually her entire career there and has encyclopedic knowledge of the Authority

and of the field.

Ms. Pope is particularly well-qualified by professional reputation,

by educational background and experience, and by her demonstrated deep understanding of Federal labor-management relations.

She is also well-qualified by virtue of her law degree from Northeastern University Law School, her B.A. from Simmons College on

whose board she serves, and the additional courses on industrial

and labor relations she has taken at the Cornell University.

It is with great pride that I recommend her to you and believe

that her distinguished career speaks for itself as to why she was

nominated.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you, Ms. Norton, for your presence

here this morning and for your introduction of our nominee.

Before we proceed further, I recognize the attendance of our distinguished colleague Senator Stevens from Alaska and will yield to

him for any opening comments that he might desire to make.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR STEVENS

Senator STEVENS. This is a hard meeting for me, Mr. Chairman.

I am one of the coauthors of the Postal Reform Bill that led to the

creation of the Board of Governors.

5

I am disturbed to learn that if Mr. Kessler is confirmed, there

will be three members from Pennsylvania out of nine, and as a

matter of fact, a fourth was born in Pennsylvania. That was supposed to be a national board that represents the entire United

States, and I am just going to have to reserve my judgment on

whether or not this is a proper thing to do, to have four members

who are supposed to guide the Postmaster General and guide the

operations of this enormous entity all coming from the same State.

Thank you very much.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you, Senator.

The rules of the Committee on Governmental Affairs require that

an inquiry be conducted into the experience, qualifications, suitability and integrity of persons who are nominated to serve in offices that are within the jurisdiction of the Committee on Governmental Affairs.

The Committee has received from the nominees all of the information that we were required to obtain. In addition, the nominees

have responded in writing to pre-hearing questions submitted by

the Committee concerning issues relevant to the office to which

they have been nominated.

We have received copies of the nominees’ biographical information and responses to questions that have been submitted to them.

These will be placed in the record as part of this hearing and are

available upon request.

The financial statements are available for inspection by the public in the Committee office.

The staff of the Committee have reviewed all of this information

and in addition have examined the Financial Disclosure Reports

submitted by the Office of Government Ethics.

The Committee’s Ranking Member and I have reviewed the FBI

Background Investigation Reports.

The Committee rules require that all nominees be under oath

while testifying before the Committee on matters relating to their

suitability for office, including the policies and programs that the

nominees will pursue if confirmed. So at this point, I will ask you

both to stand and raise your right hand to take the oath.

Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and

nothing but the truth, so help you, God?

Mr. KESSLER. I do.

Ms. POPE. I do.

Senator COCHRAN. Please be seated.

I am going to allow each of you to make any statement or comments that you would like to make and to introduce any family

members who are accompanying you. I met Mr. Kessler’s parents

and wife before the hearing began.

Mr. Kessler, I am going to recognize you first to introduce your

family and make any opening statement that you would like to before the Committee.

6

1Mr. Kessler’s Responses to Biographical Information Questionnaire and Pre-Hearing Questions appear in the Appendix on pages 15 and 40 respectively.

TESTIMONY OF ALAN C. KESSLER,1 OF PENNSYLVANIA, TO BE

A GOVERNOR OF THE U.S. POSTAL SERVICE

Mr. KESSLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me also thank

Senator Stevens, members of the staff, and other distinguished

guests here today.

First, Mr. Chairman, although Senators Biden and Santorum

had to run to other business, I would like to say that I am extremely honored and grateful to both of them for having taken the

time out of the very important business that they conduct on behalf

of the citizens of our great country and from the extraordinary demands on their schedules to introduce me this morning.

I am particularly thankful to both of them for the support that

I have received from such prominent members of this great legislative body.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce my wife Gail, who is sitting right behind me, as well as my parents, Jo and Al Kessler, and

also introduce although they are not here today my children, Stacy,

Mark, and Dan, who could not be with us because of school, although I am sure that if they had known they might have had a

choice, they would have loved to use this hearing or, for that matter, anything else to get out of a day of school.

I am truly humbled and deeply honored to be before you today

on the matter of my outstanding nomination to serve as a Governor

of the U.S. Postal Service. I do thank you, Mr. Chairman, as Senator Santorum said, for having scheduled this hearing and having

scheduled it so expeditiously, as well as to the members of the staff

of both the Committee and Subcommittee.

As Senator Santorum and Senator Biden related to you, while

my career has spanned over 20 years as a practicing lawyer, I have

been involved for almost as long in some form of public service.

From my first appointment in 1983, almost 17 years ago, by the

then Mayor of Philadelphia to a board position overseeing building

regulations to my subsequent appointments by two successive mayors to a number of other city board positions, including the city’s

License and Inspection Review Board, the City Planning Commission, Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation and Central

Philadelphia Development Corporation, I have dedicated a significant part of my career to serving the city in which I have lived and

practiced my profession.

I have also served, as Senators Santorum and Biden discussed,

as an elected official in a suburban township with a population of

approximately 58,000 residents and as such have dealt with a full

spectrum of issues facing local governments, including budgetary

and fiscal issues, public safety, public works, land development,

and recreation matters. By the way, in that office, I dealt with a

potential closing and relocation of a Postal Service facility.

I have been appointed by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court to

chair its Continuing Legal Education Committee, which oversees

mandatory continuing legal education for all Pennsylvania lawyers.

Finally, during the period 1994–1998, I served as vice chair of

the Presidential Congressional Commission on Risk Assessment

7

and Risk Management, a bipartisan commission that consisted of

Presidential appointees as well as appointees of the Senate Majority Leader, Senator Minority Leader, Speaker of the House, and

others. The Commission held hearings; it issued two reports to the

White House and to Congress on the issues of risk assessment and

risk management. In connection with that effort, I might add, I had

the opportunity to work with both Senate and House committee

staffers.

I very much enjoyed my service on that commission, as I have

in all other areas of public service in which I have been engaged

for almost 20 years. After we completed the Risk Commission’s

work, I indicated a desire to perform additional service on a parttime board or commission at the Federal level.

I expressed my interest in particular in the U.S. Postal Service

because of some very important projects in which it had been involved in my city. I have also been very interested in the future

of the Postal Service because of the increased competition that it

will face and does face as a result of developing communications

technology. This decade therefore will witness a critical challenge

to an American institution—part of our national fabric—which has

engendered over the years such a high degree of confidence and

trust from our citizens.

I am intrigued by and very interested in helping the Postal Service meet this great challenge.

As a business lawyer, I have represented a number of different

business interests, including real estate developers, major corporations as well as entrepreneurial companies. I have been involved

not only in the courtroom, but in negotiations and counseling, in

an effort to achieve goals while utilizing alternative methods to resolve disputes.

I believe that the cumulative experience that I have gained

through my practice of law and through my public service will enhance my effectiveness on the Board of Governors of the U.S. Postal Service.

I had the very interesting and thought-provoking experience of

appearing before Committee staff a few weeks ago to address a

number of issues facing the Postal Service. While I have much to

learn, I do believe that I have the basic background and a fundamental appreciation of those issues.

I look forward to the great challenges presented by these issues

and to making what I hope will be a very worthwhile and lasting

contribution to the business of the U.S. Postal Service.

Once again, I would like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, as well as

Senator Stevens and the other distinguished Members of this Committee and Subcommittee, and staff members, for providing me

with a hearing on my nomination.

I thank Senators Santorum and Biden for honoring me today

with their very gracious introductions, and Senator Specter, who

could not be with us today but who sent his chief of staff to be with

me.

I understand I have taken enough time. It is Carol’s turn to offer

an introduction. But after that, I would be delighted to attempt to

answer any questions that you might have.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you, Mr. Kessler.

8

1Ms. Pope’s Biographical Information Questionnaire and Pre-Hearing Questions appear in the

Appendix on pages 61 and 71 respectively.

Ms. Pope, we are happy to have you with us this morning. We

welcome you and invite you to make any opening statement and to

introduce any members of your family or other guests that you

would like to at this point.

Please proceed.

TESTIMONY OF CAROL WALLER POPE,1 OF WASHINGTON, DC,

TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY

Ms. POPE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to recognize initially my sister, Lynda Butler from

Philadelphia, who is here representing all of my family—my elderly

mother and sisters in Pittsburgh who could not be here today.

I would also like to recognize members of my extended District

of Columbia family—Donna Ramos Johnson and Langdon Johnson.

It is important that I recognize Don Wasserman, Chairman of

the FLRA, and Dale Cabinuss, a Member of the FLRA, who are

present today. Unfortunately, member Phyllis Segal and the Federal Services Impasses Panel Chair Bonnie Castrey were unable to

attend.

Also, my boss, the FLRA General Counsel, Joseph Swerdzewski,

could not be here today, but he is ably represented by members of

his staff who are also my colleagues in the Office of the General

Counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing, and I would

like to thank Congresswoman Norton for her kind words on my behalf and for her support.

I would also like to thank all of the Committee staff for their

work and for their meaningful assistance in their review of my

nomination and the scheduling of this hearing.

I am humbled that President Clinton has nominated me to be a

Member of the Federal Labor Relations Authority, an agency that

I have worked in for over 20 years as a career civil servant.

The mission of the FLRA, to exercise leadership in promoting

stable, constructive labor-management relationships that contribute to a more effective and efficient government, reaches to the

heart of the workings of our democracy. That mission has been the

cornerstone of my professional life. If confirmed by the Senate, I

will work with my colleagues to ensure that the FLRA fulfills its

mission by adjudicating disputes fairly, impartially, and expeditiously; also by producing quality legal decisions that enhance the

stability of Federal sector labor relations.

Just as important, I will work with my colleagues to ensure that

the FLRA continues its leadership role in assisting labor and management in collaboratively resolving their disputes.

I greatly appreciate the trust and confidence that President Clinton has placed in me, and if confirmed, I pledge to discharge my

duties to the best of my ability.

Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity to appear today.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you, Ms. Pope.

9

We welcome all of the family members and guests who are here

today.

We have some standard questions that are required of us under

our rules and customs to ask of all nominees. I am going to go

through those at this time and then add a couple of my own.

Is there anything that you are aware of in your background that

might present a conflict of interest with the duties and the office

to which you have been nominated, Mr. Kessler?

Mr. KESSLER. Mr. Chairman, the answer to that is no, or at least

I am not aware of any. We have made full disclosures in terms of

my financial holdings and my client list. I did receive an opinion

from the ethics officers of the Postal Service who reviewed that and

sent a 2-page letter indicating that she saw no conflict at this time.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you. Ms. Pope.

Ms. POPE. No, Senator.

Senator COCHRAN. Do you know of any reason, personal or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably

discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been

nominated?

Mr. KESSLER. No, I do not, Senator.

Ms. POPE. No, Senator.

Senator COCHRAN. Do you agree without reservation to respond

to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any dulyconstituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed?

Mr. KESSLER. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. POPE. Yes, Senator.

Senator COCHRAN. Let me ask you, Mr. Kessler, there are several

issues that are confronting the Postal Service right now, and as

Chairman of the Subcommittee that has jurisdiction over that area

of the Committee’s responsibilities, I am planning to look into a

couple of them with some hearings and discussions with those who

are responsible and interested in the issues.

One is the extent to which the Postal Service should be permitted, or is authorized by law, to get outside what would normally

be considered the traditional scope of handling the mail. For example, in electronic communications, there are some suggestions that

the Postal Service is going to embark on some new ways of handling communications, and there is a question about whether this

is unfair competition with existing private enterprise activities in

this area.

Do you have any thoughts or suggestions along this line about

that issue?

Mr. KESSLER. Mr. Chairman, I certainly hope to the extent my

nomination comes out of Committee and is voted on that I will

learn a lot more than I know now, as I have indicated. But I do

believe that it is clear that the Postal Service does face a great

challenge over the next several years. The Postmaster General has

indicated that several billion dollars of revenues are at risk because of increased competition from electronic mail, and I think

that if the Postal Service is going to meet those challenges, it is

going to have to be innovative and creative in terms of keeping

abreast with the internet. It has done that to a certain extent with

PC Postage and other initiatives.

10

There is an issue, as the Chairman raised, with the fact that the

Postal Service, some say, has an unfair advantage, but on the other

hand, just as it does have some advantages, it also has disadvantages. It does not have the ability to increase rates the same way

enjoyed by the private sector. The rate process presently takes

probably in excess of 10 months. The Postal Service, as we all

know, has a universal service mandate. It is not a mandate that

the private sector has.

So there are advantages and disadvantages. I do agree that it is

a significant issue and one that I would very much like to study

and analyze in greater detail, but I do think that the Postal Service

is going to have to move into the 21st Century, including through

internet and electronic measures, if it is going to hope to compete

and not, as the Postmaster General said, see a significant diminution in its revenues.

Senator COCHRAN. One of the challenges of the Postal Service is

dealing with the employee unions and other groups that are competing for higher wages, salaries, working conditions, and all the

rest. To what extent does your background equip you to deal with

the issues of labor and management relations that you would bring

to this job?

Mr. KESSLER. Mr. Chairman, maybe I ought to defer to my colleague, Ms. Pope, and let her answer that question. But I have experience—I am not a labor lawyer, but I have general experience.

When our past mayor took over in Philadelphia in 1992, the City

of Philadelphia was on the brink of financial bankruptcy, and it

was a matter of bringing the unions in—and I had some role in

that—and labor and getting them to buy into the future of the city;

and if that meant making sacrifices in some ways, there was no alternative.

I have had that same experience in behalf of my township, Lower

Merion Township, as we have seen, at least during the 1990’s, our

revenue sources dryed up and an absolute reluctance to increase

taxes, and that meant considering new initiatives like privatization

that we did not ultimately embark upon but that I felt we had an

obligation and a duty to explore fully, and we did. In fact, we even

went out with an RFP to look into privatization in some areas.

So I think I have the experience to do that. I think that part of

the trick with labor—and I do not mean to say it is a trick—is good

communication and trust in getting labor to buy into the future.

When the Postmaster General says that there is a significant potential decline in mail and therefore in revenues, it seems to me

that that is something that labor needs to have a seat at the table

on but needs to understand the challenges of the future if it in turn

wants to have a future.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you.

Ms. Pope, one of the responsibilities of the Federal Labor Relations Authority is to promote stability; that was something you acknowledged in your statement, and with a 20-year history of working with the agency, you are quite familiar with that.

What do you see as one of the influences or some of the influences that you could bring to the challenge of promoting stability

and dependability of excellence in performance of those who work

for the Federal Government?

11

Ms. POPE. Labor relations is the cornerstone, if you will, of an

effective government, and in my view, the role of the Federal Labor

Relations Authority in delivering and deciding issues that affect

labor-management relations promotes stability. Our 20-year history

in issuing decisions that clarify the statute, identify the parties—

labor’s and management’s rights and responsibilities under the

statute, promotes stability.

Currently, our work in alternative dispute resolution and attempting to assist the parties in developing more collaborative relationships also operates to promote stability in Federal sector labor

relations.

Senator COCHRAN. Are there any suggestions that you could give

to the legislative committee that has jurisdiction over this area of

the law for reform or changes that would make the relationship between the government and its employees more stable and more

productive?

Ms. POPE. There are issues and areas that I am not prepared to

speak about today with respect to legislative reform, particularly

the scope of bargaining. In my view and in my role as a civil servant and as a member of the Federal Labor Relations Authority

staff, we have attempted to educate the parties about the statute

and its requirements in an effort to promote stability.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you.

Senator Akaka has joined us. He is the Ranking Member of our

Subcommittee and my good friend from Hawaii.

Senator Akaka, I would be happy to yield to you for any comments or questions you have of our nominees.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. You are

a good friend and very kind to me, and I want to thank you for

having this hearing, which is very important to all of us.

Mr. Kessler, I want to express my appreciation for your interest

in serving the public as a member of the Board of Postal Governors; and to you, Ms. Pope, on your desire to serve the agency

which you have called home for 20 years, as a member of the National Labor Relations Authority.

You have both led exciting legal careers, as I read—one outside

the Federal Government, the other within the Federal Government—and I am pleased to welcome both of you here today.

My questions are very brief, Mr. Kessler. I would like to know

how you will help protect universal service. I ask that question because I understand that the workload of the Postal Service is

changing, and we expect that, given that there will be a projected

decline in mail volume by 2003. I am interested in how you would

handle this.

Mr. KESSLER. Senator, I would love to say that I have specific

measures in mind to address it, but at this point, I do not, other

than to say as I did discuss earlier, that I understand that that is

probably the greatest challenge facing the Postal Service, and I do

think it probably requires a combination of factors one of which is

potentially—and again, I preface this by saying that I am learning

and obviously hope to learn a lot more—but one of the things that

probably needs to happen—and I understand there was or may be

12

legislative initiatives—is allowing the Postal Service to increase its

rates somewhat more quickly and expeditiously than it is able to

now, 10, 11, or 12 months is a long time in today’s world, when

private companies can react on a daily if not even quicker basis.

That is not to say that the method, the procedure in place right

now is a bad one and that there should not be an opportunity for

stakeholders to be heard on rate increases or, hopefully, rate decreases. It just means that is something that maybe can be shortened and improved.

The Chairman asked me about whether the Postal Service

should get involved in electronic mail initiatives, the internet. It

has over the last several years in some respect, with postage stamp

PC postage. I think the Postal Service needs to stay within its traditional area of services and not go beyond those services, but

nonetheless I think it needs to update those services and be able

to compete. It has got to be able to compete, and all the things that

I have discussed today I think are important in that respect, including the need to bring labor into the mix, the need to continue

to automate and to spend the money that has been spent over the

last couple of years on automation. And in that respect, I believe

automation alone has saved the Postal Service over the last year

or two over $208 million.

So I think that a combination of all those things has to be in

place to allow the Postal Service to effectively compete over the

next decade.

Senator AKAKA. Well, as you know, it will really demand some

creative thinking as to how the Postal Service is going to deal with

the decline in the mail load it receives. And as you point out, with

the new technologies that are coming out, even those of us in Congress have to alter the way we work now that we have computers

instead of filing cabinets. So our staffs and the Members have to

shift in the way we do things here, and we find that we are doing

more than we did before.

Ms. Pope, as the ranking member on the Federal Services Subcommittee, I am always interested in labor-management relations.

Given your service of 20 years on the FLRA, I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the issue of labor-management

relations.

Ms. POPE. We are in a period of some change in Federal labor

relations, 5 years ago, starting to embark on a collaborative effort

to have labor and management work together outside traditional

litigation and adversarial means. A lot of progress has been made

in the last 5 years, and a lot has happened in my 20-year career

with respect to the development of the law in Federal sector labor

relations.

There is a lot of promise and expectations, if you will, on the part

of both sides, labor and management, as we move forward and further develop areas of the law and look to cement, collaboration and

nonadversarial methods of dispute resolution, all to promote a

more effective and efficient government.

Senator AKAKA. As you know, labor issues and problems have

changed over a period of time and will continue to change. I was

interested in what you thought you would be facing, and I thank

you for your comments.

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Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

Senator COCHRAN. Thank you, Senator Akaka. We appreciate

your participation in the hearing.

Again let me welcome and commend those who have been nominated for these important responsibilities in our Federal Government. We appreciate your cooperation with our Committee.

We have no further questions at this time, although Senators

have an opportunity to submit written questions if they so choose,

and we hope you will respond to any that are submitted in a timely

fashion. The record will remain open for those questions and also

any statements that Senators might want to put in the record.

That concludes the hearing. We stand adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 10:41 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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