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24–237 PDF 2006

S. Hrg. 109–327

NOMINATIONS OF STEWART A. BAKER AND JULIE

L. MYERS

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON THE

NOMINATIONS OF STEWART A. BAKER TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY 

FOR POLICY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, AND JULIE L. 

MYERS TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR U.S. IMMIGRATION AND 

CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman 

TED STEVENS, Alaska 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

LINCOLN D. CHAFEE, Rhode Island 

ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah 

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico 

JOHN W. WARNER, Virginia 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK DAYTON, Minnesota 

FRANK LAUTENBERG, New Jersey 

MARK PRYOR, Arkansas

MICHAEL D. BOPP, Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

JENNIFER A. HEMINGWAY, Professional Staff Member 

JOYCE A. RECHTSCHAFFEN, Minority Staff Director and Counsel 

ADAM R. SEDGEWICK, Minority Professional Staff Member 

TRINA D. TYRER, Chief Clerk 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 1

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 7

Senator Warner ................................................................................................ 9

Senator Lautenberg .......................................................................................... 10

Senator Voinovich ............................................................................................. 11

Senator Levin .................................................................................................... 22

Prepared statement: 

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 29

WITNESSES 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

Hon. John McCain, a U.S. Senator from the State of Arizona ............................ 1

Hon. Charles Robb, former U.S. Senator from the State of Virginia .................. 2

Hon. Pat Roberts, a U.S. Senator from the State of Kansas ............................... 4

Stewart A. Baker to be Assistant Secretary for Policy, U.S. Department 

of Homeland Security .......................................................................................... 12

Julie L. Myers, of Kansas to be Assistant Secretary for Immigration and 

Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security ..................... 14

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Baker, Stewart A.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 12

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 31

Biographical and professional information ..................................................... 33

Pre-hearing questions and responses .............................................................. 39

Post-hearing questions and responses ............................................................ 123

McCain, Hon. John: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 1

Myers, Julie L.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 14

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 84

Biographical and professional information ..................................................... 86

Pre-hearing questions and responses .............................................................. 92

Post-hearing questions and responses ............................................................ 149

Robb, Hon. Charles: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 2

Roberts, Hon. Pat: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4

(1)

NOMINATIONS OF STEWART A. BAKER AND 

JULIE L. MYERS 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:36 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Susan M. Collins, 

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Collins, Voinovich, Warner, Lieberman, Levin, 

and Lautenberg. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN COLLINS 

Chairman COLLINS. The Committee will come to order. 

Good morning. Today the Committee will consider the nominations of two individuals to fill key positions at the Department of 

Homeland Security: Stewart Baker to be Assistant Secretary for 

Policy; and Julie Myers to be Assistant Secretary for Immigration 

and Customs Enforcement. 

I know that both nominees are very honored to have with them 

today two of our current colleagues and one of our former colleagues to introduce them. I also know that those who are undertaking that duty are on very tight schedules. So what I am going 

to do is call on our colleagues for their introductions so that they 

can go on with their day, and then we will resume our opening 

statements and proceed with the hearing. 

We very much appreciate that the distinguished Senator from 

Arizona, Senator John McCain, is here, and I will call on him first 

to introduce Mr. Baker. 

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN McCAIN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF ARIZONA 

Senator MCCAIN. Thank you very much, Your Majesty—I mean 

Madam Chairman. 

I am glad to be here, given the bitter partisanship that exists on 

this Committee between you and Senator Lieberman, I am pleased 

to act as mediator here today at this hearing. 

Chairman COLLINS. I think I will resume my opening statement 

after all. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. I do want to say for the record that I did 

say to Mr. Baker a moment or two ago that until I learned that 

you were introducing him, Senator McCain, his nomination looked 

like it was going to sail through. 

2

Senator MCCAIN. I thank you both, and I am very pleased and 

proud to be here with our colleague, Senator Chuck Robb, who 

served in the most distinguished fashion, along with Judge Silberman, on the Commission on Weapons of Mass Destruction. I believe that Commission did an admirable job and provided this Nation with much needed information and recommendations as to 

how we can improve our intelligence capabilities to a point where 

Americans can regain confidence in it. I was very pleased to serve 

under the chairmanship of Senator Robb. 

I am really here today not only because I have known Stewart 

Baker for a long time, but because of the outstanding job that he 

did on the Weapons of Mass Destruction Commission. He staffed 

it with ability, making use of his extensive background on national 

security issues. Before that he served as the General Counsel for 

the National Security Agency. 

As my colleagues all know, who have served on commissions, the 

most important aspect of it is valuable use of the commission’s 

time. I believe that Stewart provided us with both the kind of witnesses, information, and background that was necessary for us to 

be able to make informed conclusions. 

I believe he will do a superb job in the Department of Homeland 

Security. Obviously, there is going to be some significant review 

and scrutiny of the Department of Homeland Security. I think he 

will serve with distinction. I am very proud to join my friend, 

Chuck Robb, here today in strongly recommending him. 

I thank the Committee for their courtesy in allowing me to be 

here to introduce him. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator Robb, welcome back to the Senate. We are very pleased 

to have you here today. Please proceed with your remarks. 

STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES S. ROBB, FORMER U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF VIRGINIA 

Senator ROBB. Thank you, Madam Chairman and Senator 

Lieberman, and my friend and colleague and the Chairman of the 

Armed Services Committee, Senator Warner, and other Committee 

Members as they arrive or will read in detail every word that is 

uttered in this particular hearing to ensure that none but the finest serve our government in these critical capacities. 

I am delighted to be able to join my longtime friend and former 

colleague, John McCain. I must thank him. Normally when we are 

together, there is something that is derogatory about the Navy/Marine Corps team in which I end up being less flattering than I was 

just a minute ago by the distinguished Senator from Arizona. 

I must say that Senator Warner, as you know, does not ever 

have that problem. He is, I think, the only Member of this body 

that served in both of those branches of the service. So I am delighted to be here before you. 

I am particularly pleased to join you in formally introducing and 

wholeheartedly recommending Stewart Baker for this position with 

the Department of Homeland Security. As Senator McCain just 

mentioned, we had the opportunity to work with Stewart for the 

better part of a year-and-a-half in putting together the report that 

was the result of a very serious effort by some very talented people. 

3

And we needed a quarterback for the wordsmithing. In particular, 

we needed somebody that could bring together a group of extraordinarily talented young lawyers and others who were going to help 

us pull this document together. 

Senator Voinovich, good to see you, sir. 

We sought a number of recommendations for who we might ask 

to serve as general counsel. Everyone that we talked to had a number of recommendations, but if you could get Stewart Baker, it is 

really going to be a real plus. 

And until that time, I had only known Stewart Baker by reputation. But what a reputation. He proved that time and again during 

his service with us. He was able to reconcile disparate views that 

came up from time to time as to either whatever findings we might 

make or particularly whatever recommendations in terms of going 

forward. And his leadership of the drafting team to put together 

the report that was delivered to the President and to Members of 

Congress was superb. 

I would just simply say that I have known many of the people 

in this town, which has an overabundance of over achievers. And 

even in that distinguished group, Stewart Baker has always stood 

out. And he continued to excel in the work that he did for us. 

Senator McCain alluded to just a few of the roles that Stewart 

Baker has played over the years in providing leadership for a 

whole variety of national security interests. I do not think anyone 

would take issue with the need at this time for really first-rate individuals in providing leadership for the Department of Homeland 

Security. 

The President has nominated someone that I believe, and I think 

all of those, and there are several people who worked with and for 

Stewart Baker, who are sitting behind us today, would all agree 

provided the kind of leadership, the kind of direction, and is so articulate, so eloquent that I am absolutely certain that he will serve 

yet again his country with distinction in a very challenging time, 

in a very challenging role. 

I will simply conclude by saying thank you for allowing me to 

come back for this privilege. And I hope it will be the privilege of 

the entire Committee to recommend Stewart Baker to the full Senate for confirmation so he can get on the job. It is clear we have 

work to do in that area. 

Thank you, Madam Chairman and Members of the Committee. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you very much. 

Senator ROBB. Senator Levin and Senator Lautenberg, you just 

arrived. I am delighted to see all of you as former colleagues and 

remaining friends. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Senator Robb. Your endorsement 

and that of Senator McCain means a lot to this Committee. 

We would be happy to excuse you both now if you would like and 

thank you for taking the time to be here today. 

Senator WARNER. Madam Chairman, before they depart, may I 

associate myself with the remarks by Senator McCain about Senator Robb’s work on this Commission. We were strong partners on 

a team in the years that he served here in the Senate. That will 

always be the case. 

4

Thank you for coming up on behalf of such a distinguished, wellaccomplished nominee. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator ROBB. Madam Chairman, I thank the distinguished Senator from Virginia. And with that I will depart and leave you to 

his tender mercies. 

Senator ROBERTS. Do you mean before I make my statement? Is 

my fellow Marine going to leave me? 

Senator ROBB. Madam Chairman, I am not going to depart until 

my former Marine over here makes his statement. 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Roberts, we are very pleased to have 

you with us today, the distinguished Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. 

STATEMENT OF HON. PAT ROBERTS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF KANSAS 

Senator ROBERTS. Actually, that is classified, Madam Chairman. 

I do not know how to top John McCain in addressing you. I do 

not know how to top John McCain period. I thought maybe exalted 

leader and protector of western civilization. 

Chairman COLLINS. That would be adequate. 

Senator ROBERTS. I appreciate that. Senator Lieberman and my 

distinguished Chairman of the Armed Services Committee, Senator 

Levin, the Inspector General of the entire government, and Senator 

Lautenberg, I am honored to be here today to introduce a fellow 

Kansan whom the President has nominated to be the Assistant 

Secretary of Homeland Security for the Bureau of Immigration and 

Customs Enforcement. That used to be INS, it is now called ICE. 

We do a lot in changing the acronyms around here, but we do not 

want to break the ICE but we sure want to fix it. 

Julie Myers is a native of Shawnee, Kansas. She received her 

Bachelor of Arts degree from Baylor University in Texas and her 

law degree from the law school at Cornell. 

Ms. Myers served as the Assistant Secretary for Export Enforcement at the Department of Commerce. As Assistant Secretary she 

did develop and coordinate the Department’s efforts to prevent 

sanctions violations of U.S. dual-use export control laws and the 

anti-boycott provision of the Export Administration Act. No easy 

task. 

She managed special agents throughout the country and she 

oversaw the Export Enforcement’s International Attache Program. 

Ms. Myers served as the Chief of Staff of the Criminal Division 

for Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff at the Department 

of Justice, and as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Money Laundering and Financial Crimes at the Department of Treasury. There 

she fought against the financiers of terrorism and implemented a 

national strategy to combat money laundering. 

She also served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Eastern 

District of New York, where she prosecuted financial criminals, and 

as a deputy to Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr. 

Madam Chairman, my observation is that Kansas has been the 

home of a great many public servants, especially in law enforcement. Who can forget the legends of Wyatt Earp and Bat 

Masterson in my hometown of Dodge City. Their efforts really 

5

helped clean up my hometown and the rest of Kansas. I knew 

Wyatt Earp and Bat Masterson, and Julie could ride shotgun with 

these guys anytime. I am sure that she, armed with her knowledge 

and passion for our judicial system, will enforce immigration and 

customs laws and policies with a firm and fair hand. 

I think it is a privilege for me to sit by this young lady. She is 

getting married the day after tomorrow, so I am very hopeful we 

can expedite her confirmation and get her and John to the church 

on time. 

Thank you, ma’am. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Senator. Your endorsement 

means a great deal to this committee. 

I know that you have an extremely busy schedule, so if you need 

to leave right now, and take Senator Robb with you, that would be 

acceptable to this Committee. 

Senator ROBERTS. Thank you very much. 

Chairman COLLINS. We are now going to resume opening statements. 

Secretary Chertoff has said that the Department of Homeland 

Security was not created merely to be a big tent under which a lot 

of different organizations would be collected. It was created to put 

together a dynamic organization that would pursue missions in furtherance of homeland security and that would bring together all 

levels of government in order to execute those missions in an integrated and comprehensive manner. This Committee envisioned precisely that type of multi-jurisdictional integration when it created 

the Department of Homeland Security. 

We have just observed the fourth anniversary of the event that 

led us to undertake such a profound reorganization of government. 

Yet over the last two weeks we have seen a significant failure 

in the emergency preparedness and response system that the Department was supposed to strengthen. Hurricane Katrina was a 

natural disaster, but the devastation, suffering, and deprivation 

this powerful storm left in its wake was compounded by the failure 

of all levels of government—local, State, and Federal—to prepare 

and respond in a unified, integrated way. 

Two months ago, Secretary Chertoff released the Department’s 

Second Stage Review, a document that seeks to refine and reconfigure the Department in light of what has been learned during its 

first 2 years of operations. 

Among the changes proposed by the Secretary is the creation of 

a Directorate of Planning and Policy. The intent of this new directorate would be to develop a more comprehensive approach to policy and planning, and to bring the various components of DHS, as 

well as its local and state partners, together under a unified vision. 

I support the establishment of this office as the focal point of policy planning within the Department. I think the Department’s recent handling of Hurricane Katrina indicates that need for more coordination, both within the Department and also with its State and 

local partners. 

As Assistant Secretary for Policy, Mr. Baker would be directly responsible for establishing priorities and for seeing that they are implemented on a wide range of homeland security issues. This is obviously a considerable challenge for a department as large and 

6

wide-ranging as the Department of Homeland Security, and Mr. 

Baker brings strong credentials to the task. 

As has been indicated, he recently served as the General Counsel 

of the Commission on Intelligence Capabilities of the United States 

Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction, where he headed the 

drafting team for the Commission’s report. He served formerly as 

the General Counsel of the National Security Agency and as the 

Deputy General Counsel of the Department of Education. 

Earlier in his career, Mr. Baker served as a law clerk to Justice 

John Paul Stevens. 

I am pleased to note that Mr. Baker lived in Portland, Maine, 

while clerking for the esteemed Maine jurist, Judge Frank Coffin. 

Nothing is more crucial to the safety of the American people, our 

economy, and the principles upon which our Nation stands than 

the borders that are closed to our enemies yet open to our friends. 

The United States has some 6,000 miles of international border, 

some 600 of which are in my home state of Maine. I know full well 

both the vulnerability that these vast borders present and their importance to commerce and to our society. 

Effective immigration and customs enforcement is essential if 

this balance among protection, commerce and values is to be 

struck. The State, local and Federal partnership we envision also 

is essential. When we speak of DHS components that have new and 

challenging homeland security missions to carry out in addition to 

vital traditional missions, and that we must forge a real partnership with State and local authorities, ICE comes immediately to 

mind. 

From fraudulent identification to illegal immigration, from cargo 

container security to trade in counterfeit consumer goods to finance 

terrorism, this Committee has investigated and examined many of 

these new challenges. 

In addition to ICE’s responsibility for enforcement of Federal 

immigration and customs laws, its expanded mission includes the 

prevention of acts of terrorism by targeting the people, money, and 

materials that support terrorist activities. ICE actively seeks to 

combat drug trafficking, human smuggling, and international trade 

in child pornography, as well as terrorism. That ICE is the largest 

investigative arm of the Department is evidence of the scope and 

importance of its broad mission. 

Julie Myers would bring experience and the confidence of Secretary Chertoff to this mission. She has served as an Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Export Enforcement, as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Money Laundering and Financial Crimes at the 

Department of Treasury, and also worked as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Eastern District of New York. 

Like Mr. Baker, Ms. Myers comes before this Committee at a 

time when the position she seeks may be on the brink of a substantial change. As part of the Second Stage Review, Secretary Chertoff 

has also proposed breaking up the Border and Transportation Security Directorate and splitting ICE and Customs and Border Protection into two independent units that will report directly to the 

Secretary. I would be interested in hearing Ms. Myers’ thoughts on 

this proposed reorganization. 

7

I want to thank both of the nominees for their past service to 

their country and for their willingness to continue to serve in very 

challenging capacities. I look forward to questioning them today. 

Senator Lieberman. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LIEBERMAN 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thanks very much very, Madam Chairman. 

I join you in welcoming Stewart Baker and Julie Myers to the 

hearing today. 

This Committee authored the original legislation to create the 

Department of Homeland Security, so we have a real and personal 

interest in seeing the Department realize its full potential. Both of 

the positions for which you have both been nominated present 

great opportunities and great challenges. I would like to briefly 

touch on a few of the concerns that I have about issues facing both 

of these offices. 

First to Mr. Baker. When we created DHS, one of the guiding 

principles was to bring greater cohesion to Federal homeland security missions that were then splintered among many different 

agencies. I have been thinking in the days since the unsatisfactory 

performance post–Hurricane Katrina, as people are beginning to 

pick the Department apart, that we ought to remind people why we 

created the Department. It is because there was disorganization before. 

And the reaction to what seems to have been an inadequate performance is not to go back to disorganization. It is to fix the organization, I think, to make it work better. 

In the early years of the Department clearly, and in some ways 

understandably, the initial goal of bringing all of those disparate 

missions together has not been fully realized, not realized as we 

had hoped. The Secretary has lacked the central staff and structure 

to chart Department-wide strategy and policy, which could then be 

carried out in a coordinated way by the many components of the 

Department. 

This shortcoming has come to the forefront in a number of recent 

examinations of the Department, including an oversight hearing 

that we, in this Committee, held in January of this year. 

Now Secretary Chertoff, in conducting his own internal review of 

the Department, has concluded that the Department needs a central policy shop. Mr. Baker, of course, has been nominated to lead 

that office for the entire Department. Ultimately we know Secretary Chertoff seeks legislation to elevate the office to become an 

under secretary for policy, overseeing not only the immediate office 

but also offices for international affairs, strategic planning, private 

sector, immigration statistics, as well as a new coordinator for asylum and refugee issues. 

I believe the creation of a central policy office is a real step forward, and certainly a step toward setting clear priorities for the 

Department and realizing some of the potential we envisioned 

when we created the Department. 

The Department again, perhaps understandably, in its early 

months has often been driven by the crisis of the day. It is essential therefore for this Department particularly to build a long-term 

strategic planning capability and to develop policies that will set 

8

clear enforceable priorities for many of the components of our 

homeland security effort. 

That effort will transcend any one purpose or office at the Department of Homeland Security. But the new policy office will, I 

think, be an essential core element to our building those capacities. 

I have some questions about some of the details of the proposed 

new policy, and I am concerned that the Administration has not 

proposed adequate staffing for the new office that Mr. Baker would 

hold, given the breadth of issues that it must address. I am thinking particularly in the area of immigration policy. I will take the 

liberty to ask some questions of Mr. Baker on that. 

For Ms. Myers, the Bureau of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, ICE, is a vitally important agency with a daunting combination of missions. The defense of this Nation from terrorist attacks should be the highest priority and the Agency’s Immigrations 

and Customs investigators have an important role to play in cracking down on human smuggling and money laundering activities 

that benefit the terrorists. 

ICE was created again through an internal reorganization after 

the new Department itself was established. The new Agency required integrating the missions and cultures of what were once 

core customs programs at Treasury and core immigration programs 

at INS. The Agency, I think by most accounts, has gotten off to a 

rough start, in part because planning errors led to big budget 

shortfalls for its operations. 

While we have been given assurances that these management 

issues are being resolved, I do want to note that the concerns still 

abound, including I must say, among some employees of ICE who 

believe that the current structure is hampering their ability to do 

their work. 

Indeed, as you probably know, Ms. Myers, there is an active debate as to whether the decision to split ICE from Customs and Border Patrol is fundamentally flawed and ICE should now be recombined with Border Protection. 

Although Secretary Chertoff did not recommend that as part of 

the Second Stage Review, I understand this is not necessarily a 

closed issue within the Department, and I want to say to you that 

it is not a closed issue either with Members of the Committee or 

Congress, including myself. 

The Homeland Security Act requires that the Assistant Secretary 

for this post have a minimum of 5 years of professional experience 

in law enforcement and 5 years of management experience, both 

being important, as you can tell from what you know and what I 

have said. 

You bring to this nomination a very impressive record. You are 

a very accomplished individual. I do want to say to you that I am 

going to ask you about your management experience and ask you 

to make the case for why you believe you satisfy the requirement 

of the 5 years of management experience that is uniquely required 

by statute for this position. 

I want to say just a final brief word, and I am not going to go 

until the length that I have in my statement because I have gone 

on long enough. ICE is responsible for, as you know, apprehending 

9

undocumented immigrants, detaining and deporting them. This is 

a very critical and difficult mission, also requiring priority setting. 

ICE has tried to focus its enforcement resources on detaining 

high priority aliens such as criminal offenders and those who work 

at sensitive facilities like airports or nuclear power plants. There 

are approximately 10 million undocumented immigrants in the 

country and 18,000 detention beds. Clearly, we have got to utilize 

those beds for those who pose the greatest risk to the community 

and the highest probability of flight. 

For many of the other individuals who are apprehended and who 

must await a hearing before an immigration judge, I believe we 

should utilize supervised release programs as alternatives to detention. 

The final point I made in the meeting I had with you, the Commission on International Religious Freedom, on which I was 

pleased to play a part along with our former colleague Don Nickles 

in creating, put out a report earlier this year that was very critical 

of our handling, the government’s handling, this section’s handling, 

of those who seek asylum in this country based on religious bigotry, 

or worse torture, in the countries from which they come. 

And I hope that if you are confirmed for this position that you 

will take a close look at that and see if you cannot do what we 

promise, including on the base of the Statue of Liberty, to welcome 

those who seek asylum for exactly those reasons in this country of 

liberty. 

Thank you very much. I look forward to the questioning. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. 

Do any of my colleagues have comments they would like to 

make? We were not clear about that in informing your staffs, so if 

someone does have some opening remarks, I would call on them to 

make their remarks at this time. 

Senator WARNER. Madam Chairman, if I could just exercise a few 

minutes? 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Warner. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR WARNER 

Senator WARNER. First, I want to say that these two individuals 

come before this Committee and the Senate as a whole with extraordinary credentials of achievement. It is a great credit to the 

Administration to continue to attract people of this standing to continue public service and participate in it. 

Also Judge Chertoff, I call him judge because I was a law clerk 

to a circuit judge like you were, Mr. Baker, in my lifetime, both of 

you. And I have high regard for him. And I would hope that as we 

look at this new Agency, largely created here in this Committee by 

these two distinguished leaders that preside over the Committee 

today, we may do the fine-tuning here and there. But I would be 

hesitant to try and do a major dismantling of it at this time, is my 

thought on it. 

But Mr. Baker, looking back over your credentials, I would urge 

that one of your first priorities be to look at the control of the expenditures and the accountability of the expenditures. We are really without precedent, the amount of money that has been approVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:37 Apr 12, 2006 Jkt 024237 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\24237.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
10

priated. It is going, I guess, primarily to FEMA, but other institutions in there. 

Do watch that because that will undermine the credibility of the 

future of the Agency faster than anything else with regard to Congress. 

To you, Ms. Myers, what a marvelous career. I had a burst of exceptional service at a young age, but you do not worry about it a 

bit. As a former U.S. Assistant Attorney, I would like to take your 

case if there is any question about the manager in which you have 

achieved. I bet we can meet that 5-year statute. 

Good luck to both of you. I thank the Chairman and the Ranking 

Member. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Senator. Are there any additional statements? 

Senator LAUTENBERG. Just a quick comment. 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Lautenberg. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LAUTENBERG 

Senator LAUTENBERG. Madam Chairman, with all of the laudatory comments made about these two individuals, my presumption 

is that you will be confirmed and that we will have a chance to ask 

a few questions that will challenge—sorry, it is not pointing the 

right way. And I come out of the technology business. 

But I do want to say that I am pleased that we are taking a look 

toward the inside of the Department in each of your respective or 

prospective assignments. 

And I think that it is fair to say that while marvelous work was 

done to get this Department established, and I commend Chairman 

Collins and Senator Lieberman for the pressure they put on all of 

us and Members of the Committee to get the job done. It was done 

hurriedly, not wastefully, I believe. 

However, I think it is fair to say that a transaction as complicated as the creation of this Department will still have—I will 

call it a gestation period—for some time. Part of what creates legislation and change here is reaction to things in the past and what 

happened and where did something go awry. To see a resignation 

by the head of a major agency in the midst of crisis has us kind 

of—has me anyway, sitting back and taking a look and say hey, 

why did this happen? 

Though the individual, Mr. Brown, was vetted by this Committee 

and I think took a pretty good look at his career and his qualifications, nevertheless it seems that he was over his head. 

And I am not sure that keeping the head above water in this 

case is actually an attainable condition. Because when you—and I 

will use the term loosely—crash together so many departments, so 

many people, so many assignments, so many variables in the world 

in which we are living—we are beginning to discover that more and 

more—that I think that we will be taking and continue to take long 

looks at what the Department is going to finally look like. 

I commend the decision to create a policy position and to get the 

ICE position squared away. In my mind, it raises kind of a generic 

question. At what point does DHS have law enforcement, the enforcement arm of the Department, in the appropriate house to get 

that done? Because these assignments can often be given out to 

11

other departments that have a little narrower but more manageable—I found in my business experience that smaller units were always more efficient and more effective. 

So we will watch with interest. And I think that in your case, 

each of you will be part of not only better management but also 

create policy, opportunities to engage in policy decision and make 

recommendations from your respective perches, if I can use the 

term, to make recommendations as to what you think might help 

us run this giant department more efficiently. 

I thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Senator. Senator Voinovich. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR VOINOVICH 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you, Madam Chairman, for holding 

this hearing today and considering these two nominees for positions in the Department of Homeland Security. 

Ms. Myers and Mr. Baker, I would like to thank you both for 

your service and your willingness to continue serving in appointed 

positions. I recognize the sacrifice that you and your families have 

made. If there are family members present, I want to thank them 

for their sacrifice so that you can serve. 

Madam Chairman, the events of the last several weeks dramatically highlight the need to have highly competent men and women 

in the senior positions of our government. They must be leaders 

with top-notch experience, managers with good interpersonal skills 

including having keen judgment, and individuals with policy expertise in the areas in which they will be working. 

These two nominees also have an additional challenge. The Department of Homeland Security is still trying to come together as 

a cohesive entity 2 years after its establishment. The new Secretary recognizes that and has established his recommendations for 

the Second Stage Review. 

He has recommended a policy office. Mr. Baker, you have been 

nominated to lead this office. I was encouraged by your resume and 

pleased to hear all of the wonderful comments about your experience. But you have some very serious challenges in this Department. 

Yesterday, I said that it is time for us to get into the bowels of 

the Department of Homeland Security. One method of doing that 

is making sure that you have the tools you need to get the job 

done. Part of that is people. Do you have a sufficient number of 

people to get the job done? The other part of that is the competency 

of the individuals in the respective departments. 

I have learned from my past experience as a mayor and governor 

that you are only as good as the team that you have. Far too often 

I have noticed in the Federal Government, we ask people to do the 

job and then do not give them the people the training they need 

to do the job. We must have good and competent individuals for positions of such importance. 

This is a very serious matter that we are undertaking; one that 

directly affects national security. I am concerned about where we 

are today. I am hopeful that under the direction of Secretary 

Chertoff, the Department will move forward and get the job done 

for the American people. 

12

1The prepared statement of Mr. Baker appears in the Appendix on page 31. 

The biographical and professional information appear in the Appendix on page 33. 

The pre-hearing questions and responses appear in the Appendix on page 39. 

The post-hearing questions and responses appear in the Appendix on page 123. 

Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Levin. 

Senator LEVIN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. 

Both of our nominees have filed responses to biographical and financial questionnaires, answered pre-hearing questions submitted 

by the Committee, and had their financial statements reviewed by 

the Office of Government Ethics. 

Without objection, this information will be made part of the hearing record with the exception of the financial data which are on file 

and available for public inspection in the Committee offices. 

Our Committee rules require that all witnesses at nominations 

hearings give their testimony under oath. I would ask the nominees to please stand and raise your right hand. 

Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give to the 

Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 

truth, so help you, God? 

Mr. BAKER. I do. 

Ms. MYERS. I do. 

Chairman COLLINS. You may be seated. 

Mr. Baker, I understand that you have family members present, 

and I would invite you to introduce them to the Committee. 

Mr. BAKER. I would be delighted to. My daughters Katie and Meg 

are here, both from other cities. And I am delighted to have them 

here. 

Chairman COLLINS. We welcome you. We are delighted to have 

you here, as well. 

I understand, Ms. Myers, that you also have some family members present? 

Ms. MYERS. That is correct, Chairman. I am pleased to introduce 

my parents, David and Kathy Sinzheimer, who are in from Kansas 

City; my fiance, John Wood; and my future in-laws, Bob and Elizabeth Wood. 

Chairman COLLINS. Are they all here for the wedding preparations, as well? 

Ms. MYERS. They are. This coincided very nicely for that. 

Chairman COLLINS. We welcome them, also. 

Mr. Baker, I would ask that you proceed with your statement. 

TESTIMONY OF STEWART A. BAKER,1 TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR POLICY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. BAKER. Thank you, Madam Chairman and Members of the 

Committee. 

It is really an honor to have been nominated for this position. 

But I have to say that it is a daunting prospect. I think Senator 

Voinovich accurately stated how high the stakes are. The Department is still inventing itself. We will have to invent the Policy Office, as well. And we are doing that against a backdrop of terrorists 

who are determined to kill as many Americans as they can, and a 

13

natural disaster that compares to the Chicago fire and the San 

Francisco earthquake, the kind of thing you hope only happens 

once in a 100 years. 

It shows what the stakes are for this job and suggests that any 

mistake is going to be costly. The job description ought to require 

perfection, and I am quite keenly aware that I am not perfect. And 

even if I were not aware of that, both of my daughters, as daughters will, are glad to remind me. 

So the real question, I think, is why you would want to take a 

job where you are guaranteed to make mistakes that will have that 

kind of cost? I think the best answer to that is something that happened to me after I agreed to do this. When he heard it, the guy 

who has the office just two doors down from me gave me an E-mail 

from his best friend. It was an ordinary E-mail about his best 

friend’s wedding, saying ‘‘Tuxedos for my groomsmen will be supplied by Zeller Tuxedo, which has locations all over the Tri-state 

area. See the website. Just go to one of the locations and get fitted. 

Do this please by September 20.’’

About 5 or 6 minutes after he got that E-mail, my friend sent 

back a note teasing Peter Frank, who sent it to him, over having 

lost his wallet at the bachelor party. 

The return E-mail never arrived. Because in that 5 or 6 minutes, 

American Airlines Flight 11 hit just one flight above Peter Frank’s 

office. Instead of a wedding, of course, there was only a memorial 

service. 

We have all been touched by this event, and we face a long struggle with an enemy that wants to have Peter Franks every day die 

in this country. 

If you want to be part of that struggle, it seems to me, the Department of Homeland Security is the place to be. I do want to be 

part of that struggle. And that is why I am so thrilled to have the 

opportunity to join this Department. 

I will not dwell on my professional background. It is in my prepared statement. I would be glad to talk about some of the ideas 

that I have for ways in which the Policy Office could, as Senator 

Lieberman suggested, help to unify the different components of the 

Agency. I think that is a vital task for this office. 

Instead of dwelling on either of those things, I would just like to 

say two things about the people I will be working for. When I talk 

to young associates who are thinking about going into the government, I tell them it really does not matter what the position description is. It does not matter what your title is going to be. You 

really only have to ask, ‘‘Do you respect and like the people that 

you are going to work for? ’’ If you do, you are going to have a great 

time and you are going to accomplish a lot. If you do not, it will 

be a miserable experience. 

I applied that test when I took this job, as well. I have known 

Michael Chertoff for a decade. I like him. I respect him. He is a 

fine leader, a terrific intellect. 

I have seen Michael Jackson tested in the last few weeks, and 

I have great respect for him, as well. So I am delighted to be joining their team. 

And I guess last, I would say I am delighted to be working with 

this Committee, which has a great tradition of respect for each 

14

1The prepared statement of Ms. Myers appears in the Appendix on page 84. 

The biographical and professional information appear in the Appendix on page 86. 

The pre-hearing questions and responses appear in the Appendix on page 92. 

The post-hearing questions and responses appear in the Appendix on page 149. 

other, and an assumption that everyone is working for the same 

goal, the safety of the American people. And I can assure you, I 

will treat all of you with precisely that attitude. If you have any 

questions about any policy that we may adopt or may be thinking 

about or that you think we should adopt, just call me. I am glad 

to talk to any of you in the same spirit in which this Committee 

operates. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. Ms. Myers. 

TESTIMONY OF JULIE L. MYERS,1 TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Ms. MYERS. Thank you, Chairman Collins, Senator Lieberman, 

distinguished Members of the Committee. 

I am honored and humbled to be before you today, to see the confidence that Secretary Chertoff and the President have shown in 

me by recommending me for the position of Assistant Secretary for 

Immigration and Customs Enforcement. 

ICE is very fortunate to be staffed with tremendous law enforcement agents, lawyers, analysts and support staff. I have had the 

privilege of working with them as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in 

Brooklyn, as a Deputy Assistant Secretary for Money Laundering 

at the Treasury Department, as Chief of Staff for Michael Chertoff, 

and as Assistant Secretary for Export Enforcement at the Commerce Department. If confirmed, it would be my privilege to work 

with them again on our most important objective. 

That objective could not be more important. ICE plays a vital 

role in ensuring that the American people are kept safe by ensuring that our facilities, our Federal facilities, are secure, and that 

our customs and immigration laws are effectively enforced. 

Collaborating with other agencies, ICE plays an essential role in 

preventing terrorist attacks by preventing exploitation of our customs and immigration systems, but by doing so in a way that ensures confidence in our immigration system and our rule of law. 

With respect to ICE’s immigration enforcement mission, the 

Agency operates amidst immense challenges. According to some estimates, there are approximately 11 million illegal aliens in the 

United States and approximately 500,000 more coming every year. 

The vast majority of these aliens come, understandably, because 

the promise of America is so great. And there can be no question 

that the process of entering and gaining citizenship is long and 

frustrating for many of these individuals. 

But inevitably, a few illegal aliens come for far worse reasons. 

They break one law by entering this country in order to break more 

laws once they are here: To exploit children, to smuggle more people into the country, sometimes in the most inhumane circumstances possible, to deal in narcotics, and yes to commit acts 

of terrorism. First and foremost, ICE is committed to finding, prosecuting, and removing these aliens. If confirmed, this will be my 

top priority. 

15

But ICE also has a more general responsibility to ensure that 

those who do seek to play by the rules are afforded and ensured 

that they get a fair and respectful treatment. I am talking about 

newly naturalized citizens who apply for applications to sponsor 

their relatives for admission, those persecuted in their home countries who apply for asylum and work their way through the review 

process, and employers that refuse to hire an individual without 

proper documentation. 

We must find a way to honor our American tradition of welcoming newcomers from other lands while at the same time addressing the weaknesses in our immigration system. And strong 

and effective enforcement of our immigration laws is the way to do 

just that. 

As the senators noted, ICE’s immigration mission is only one 

part of its overall role. ICE has many other critical enforcement 

missions. If confirmed, I will work to ensure that these missions 

also receive priority. 

I am particularly interested in ICE’s significant role in money 

laundering, building upon the work that they have done to ensure 

that criminals and terrorists do not execute schemes through the 

financial systems to cause us harm. And also to focus on sensitive 

technologies. 

With respect to my background and experience, I have always 

been interested in law enforcement and was privileged to serve as 

an Assistant U.S. Attorney in Brooklyn. Since that time, I have 

worked continuously in the field of law enforcement, in many of the 

areas that relate to ICE’s core mission. I have tried criminal cases, 

and worked on everything from simple smuggling cases to complex 

money-laundering investigations to complex security fraud cases. 

I have worked with the former INS system, trying to get criminal 

witnesses paroled into this country, worked with them on setting 

detainers, and worked with them in many other matters. 

Since I have joined the Administration, I have had the privilege 

to work on issues that intersect with ICE’s law enforcement mission at the Treasury, Commerce, and Justice Department. 

With respect to my management experience, my key management experience lies in my experience as Assistant Secretary at the 

Commerce Department, the Chief of Staff for Michael Chertoff, and 

as a Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Treasury Department. 

At the Commerce Department, I am pleased to say that my management style produced results. I was able to focus and target the 

agents on working on the most strategic violations, those that involved violations of our export laws that concern national security. 

Under my leadership, the Agency more than doubled its civil enforcement cases, as well as brought some of its most significant 

criminal cases, such as the Asher Karni smuggling investigation. 

I would be pleased to answer any questions you have and I welcome, as Stewart Baker said, this immense challenge. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you, Ms. Myers. 

I am going to start my questioning with the three standard questions that we ask of all nominees. 

First, is there anything that you are aware of in your background 

which might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you have been nominated? Mr. Baker. 

16

Mr. BAKER. No, I am not. 

I have gone through a recusal process with respect to past representations that is satisfactory to the Office of Government Ethics, 

and I will adhere to those rules. But there is no barrier to carrying 

out my duties. 

Chairman COLLINS. Ms. Myers. 

Ms. MYERS. No, I am not aware of any problems there. 

Chairman COLLINS. Second, do you know of anything personal or 

otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have 

been nominated? Mr. Baker. 

Mr. BAKER. No. 

Chairman COLLINS. Ms. Myers. 

Ms. MYERS. No. 

Chairman COLLINS. Third, do you agree without reservation to 

respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before 

any duly constituted committee of Congress, especially this one, if 

you are confirmed? Mr. Baker. 

Mr. BAKER. Yes, I will. 

Chairman COLLINS. Ms. Myers. 

Ms. MYERS. Yes, Chairman Collins. 

Chairman COLLINS. We will now begin a round of questions limited to 6 minutes each. 

Ms. Myers, you talked about your management experience but, 

like Senator Lieberman, this is an issue that I want to pursue further with you. If confirmed, you will head the second largest investigative agency in the entire Federal Government. The Agency that 

you have been nominated to lead has more than 20,000 employees 

and a budget of approximately $4 billion. 

The Homeland Security Act specifically requires that the head of 

ICE have a minimum of 5 years management experience. In writing this law, this Committee did not put in similar requirements 

for many of the other positions but recognized that this agency is 

a huge management challenge. 

It is evident from looking at your resume and hearing your testimony that you have considerable legal experience. You have terrific 

experience in trying cases, and in investigations. But I still have 

not heard very much about direct management experience. Could 

you expand on the management role that you played, specifically 

the number of employees you supervised, the management challenges that you have taken on including oversight of budgets? I am 

particularly interested in your response given ICE’s financial and 

management challenges. 

Ms. MYERS. Absolutely, Chairman Collins. 

With respect to my work as Assistant Secretary at the Commerce 

Department over export enforcement, I supervised a nationwide 

law enforcement agency that had field offices in nine cities, as well 

as an international presence, with five attaches overseas. In that 

capacity, I had direct responsibility for a budget of approximately 

$25 million and approximately 200 full-time employees. 

My experience at the Commerce Department helped me develop 

a style for managing a regional law enforcement program. In other 

words, how do you effectively manage folks who are in San Francisco if you are here in Washington, DC? We were able to do this 

17

by ensuring that all of the employees throughout the Agency knew 

what the mission was, what the most important things to accomplish would be, and how they would be rewarded. I would seek to 

take this same management style and apply it at ICE. 

With respect to my work at the Department of Justice, I served 

as Chief of Staff for Michael Chertoff. The Criminal Division has 

approximately 500 lawyers and a budget of over $120 million. In 

my capacity as Chief of Staff for Michael Chertoff, I directly supervised the Office of Administration, which oversaw the budgets. I 

had a lot of experience at that time working with a tight budget, 

looking at where there are difficulties and problems and making 

sure we squeezed the most out of our very limited Federal resources. 

In addition, as Chief of Staff I had a bird’s eye view not only into 

the Secretary’s management style but also into how different deputy assistant attorney generals supervise cases and run things in 

a way that is most effective. 

I believe it is fair to say that it was based on my performance 

at the Justice Department that Secretary Chertoff recommended 

me for this job and believe that I have sufficient qualifications for 

this job. 

At the Treasury Department, I was Deputy Assistant Secretary 

for Financial Crimes. In that capacity, I directly supervised two 

sections of the Treasury’s Office of Enforcement at that time, the 

Counter Narcotics Section and the International Money-laundering 

Section. There were approximately 14 permanent FTEs in those 

sections. 

We also had broader oversight for many of the programs that 

were in legacy of Customs, FinCen, and other parts of the Treasury 

Department. So I directed broad and large programs in those other 

sections, although I did not do the day-to-day or case review on all 

of them. 

Prior to that I was an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Eastern 

District of New York. In that capacity I had the ability to manage 

cases and supervise agents and junior Assistant U.S. Attorneys on 

occasion. 

I believe together all of this gives me the minimum management 

experience that is required under the statute. But let me just add, 

I believe that my management style has worked at the Commerce, 

Justice, and Treasury Departments, and I will do all that I can to 

ensure that the ICE employees, if confirmed, have a clear sense of 

mission and exceed in their very daunting goals. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. 

Mr. Baker, there are obviously a number of questions that have 

arisen in the wake of Katrina about the Department’s emergency 

preparedness and response. If you are confirmed, what role would 

you envision for the policy office in improving emergency preparedness and response, whether it is to a natural disaster or a terrorist 

attack? 

Mr. BAKER. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

I think that is clearly one of the top issues that the Policy Office 

is going to have to face. I have already begun talking to people in 

the office about beginning a policy review of what can be done, 

18

what lessons have been learned from the events surrounding 

Katrina. 

We obviously cannot be satisfied with what happened. There are 

any number of lessons to be learned. And they are lessons that we 

are going to have to apply, as you say, in the event of an attack 

on one of our cities with a nuclear weapon or a biological weapon 

that raises many of the same evacuation and other issues. 

So I expect to play a central role in reviewing department-wide 

policies for preparedness. 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Lieberman. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thanks very much, Madam Chairman. 

Mr. Baker, as I indicated in my opening statement, I am concerned about the Administration’s intentions with regard to staffing the Policy Office you are nominated to head, and the new directorate. The intention seems to be largely to transfer employees 

from existing positions rather than creating new ones. 

I think the Department is pressed and the Department’s limited 

policy planning thus far will put a lot of pressure on your office. 

And I am concerned that whether, in giving you this big new job, 

we will not be giving you the staff to carry out all that has to be 

done effectively. Do you share my worries? 

Mr. BAKER. I do not think there is anyone who has taken a job 

in government who has not thought they could do a better job with 

more people. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. This is true. 

Mr. BAKER. In fact, I have put off until about now the planning 

for exactly how we might staff this office. I do not think any final 

decisions are made on staffing. I intend to sit down with the Secretary and the Deputy Secretary and go through the list of functions. We certainly will have authority to hire more people. The 

question is how many more people, how many people we can hope 

to get as detailees. 

But I will certainly make the case aggressively for a staff that 

allows us to do this effectively. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Good, and please remember, if you are confirmed for this position, that you have a Committee here that 

wants this Department to work and is prepared to be, so far as you 

make a good argument, your advocate for the adequate support 

that you need. 

Ms. Myers, I appreciate that Senator Collins asked you the same 

question that I raised in my opening statement about the 5-year 

requirement. It is unusual for there to be that kind of explicit requirement, and it was put in presumably, I am sure, because of the 

concern about the management challenges there. 

So I think we do have a responsibility to ask you about it. I appreciate your answer. You have mentioned, I believe, four positions 

that you previously held that you believe satisfy the 5-year management requirement. For the record, now or later, can you tell me 

how long you were in each? Do you remember it now? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I believe I could come fairly close right now. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. I will not hold you to the detail if you want 

to correct it afterward. So give it a try now. 

Ms. MYERS. In my current position, which I did not mention in 

my response to the Chairman’s question, as Special Assistant to 

19

the President for Personnel, I do manage a small staff which has 

varied up to three deputies as well as support staff and interns. I 

have held this position since mid–November 2004 when I was 

asked to come over to the White House and serve in that position. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. So that is about 10 months? 

Ms. MYERS. That is correct, Senator. 

With respect to my position as Assistant Secretary for Export 

Enforcement, I was confirmed I believe in October 2003, and I held 

that until I moved on to the White House. I served in a senior adviser capacity from September to October 2003. 

With respect to my position as chief of staff in the Criminal Division I went over, I believe, in November 2002. At the time, my job 

at the Treasury Department looked like it was going to be eliminated based on the new Department of Homeland Security. So I 

went over to work for Michael Chertoff. 

I left there to go to the Commerce Department in September 

2003, and that was because Secretary Chertoff was nominated and 

confirmed as a Third Circuit Judge. 

With respect to my position as Deputy Assistant Secretary, I held 

that position from November 2001 until I left to go to the Justice 

Department the following year. 

With respect my position as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the 

Eastern District, I held that position from I believe October 1999 

until I left in 2001. 

Prior to that, I was an Associate Independent Counsel for Ken 

Starr, and I held that position for approximately 16 months. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Do you claim management experience from 

that work with the Independent Counsel’s office? 

Ms. MYERS. No, I do not. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. But you do from the time as an Assistant 

U.S. attorney? 

Ms. MYERS. That is correct, because there I was directly responsible and in charge of investigations and cases of different sizes, 

and I also was directly in charge, in certain instances, of more junior AUSAs as well as criminal investigators. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thanks. We will go over that. I have only 

got about a minute more. 

I want to ask you each if you could give me a quick reaction to 

the special concern that I have within the area of immigration policy about the treatment of asylum seekers that the Commission on 

International Religious Freedom found that a majority of DHS facilities treated asylum seekers like criminals. That was pretty 

much the description of the nonpartisan commission. And that 

DHS did not have a consistent policy on treatment release and return of these asylum seekers to the countries that they were fleeing. 

I want to ask you if you are familiar with the Commission’s finding and recommendations? Would you see formulation of a consistent policy on asylum seekers, and hopefully a better one, as a 

policy priority for your office? And a comparable question for you, 

Ms. Myers. 

Mr. BAKER. Thank you, Senator. I am familiar with the Commission. In fact, two of my friends have been chairs of the Commission 

at various times. I have a lot of respect for both of them. 

20

You mentioned this report when we met. I have been able to at 

least get the executive summary off the website. 

It is very thoughtful. There are a lot of recommendations there. 

I will certainly look at them closely. I think that we ought to be 

able to have a constructive response to those suggestions. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Good. Ms. Myers, are you familiar with 

that? 

Ms. MYERS. Yes, Senator, you also raised it in a meeting. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. That is true, I made you familiar with it. 

Ms. MYERS. I had the ability to look at the report and saw that 

there was a lot to be said about increasing transparency in our 

process and improving, in particular, ICE’s role there. If confirmed, 

I would certainly look very hard at the recommendations made by 

the Commission with respect to ICE’s role, not only with the treatment of asylum seekers but also to ensure that asylum seekers 

have the same parole criteria applied nationwide, which was something that was troubling to me that I was not aware of previously. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. I appreciate that. The bottom line obviously 

is we should be treating like criminals people who probably are, or 

at least there is reasonable cause to believe are, and treating asylum seekers as people who probably have a sincere motivation to 

get into the country. 

Obviously, not all of them pass the test. But I think it is fundamental to our national principles, and I appreciate that both of you 

went back and looked at that. I look forward to continuing to work 

with you on it. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Voinovich. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Ms. Myers, I have the same problem that Senator Collins and 

Senator Lieberman elluted to. I was a mayor for 10 years and a 

governor for 8 years, and I know management. I am really concerned about your management experience. ICE is a very large organization, with over 20,000 employees and a $4 billion budget. 

Senator Lieberman began to review your experience, but I have 

the list right here. You spent 2 years as Assistant District Attorney, then you spent about a year working with money laundering, 

10 months as Chief of Staff for Mike Chertoff who then went onto 

the bench. Then you worked for a year and 3 months with the 

Commerce Department. Can you tell me why you left the Commerce Department to go to the White House? 

Ms. MYERS. I was asked to come serve the President in this capacity. It was explained to me that the White House thought it 

would be useful to have someone who had some additional subject 

matter expertise in particular areas that I am knowledgeable 

about, particularly law enforcement. So I was asked to help with 

the transition in Presidential personnel. 

Senator VOINOVICH. The problem I have is the longevity of your 

experiences. When you begin working at any job, it takes a couple 

of months to find out just what is going on. I have concerns about 

the short duration of your service in each of these positions. I 

would really like to sit down and talk with you. 

Madam Chairman, I think that we ought to have a meeting with 

Mike Chertoff, either privately or publicly, to ask him why he 

wants Ms. Myers for this position. She will be working for him, and 

21

obviously, he would not sign off on her unless he really thinks she 

can get the job done. 

But I would like to have him spend some time with us, telling 

us personally why he thinks you are qualified for the job. Because 

based on the resume, I do not think you are. 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I appreciate your concerns. There is no 

question that ICE is a large agency with significant challenges. 

One thing that I would point out is that during my time in Washington I have had the ability throughout this entire period to work 

with legacy Customs and legacy INS agents in different capacities, 

at the Justice Department, at the Commerce Department, at the 

Treasury Department. I will bring to this position a knowledge of 

those other departments and those other needs. 

I know what it is like to work side-by-side with a Customs agent 

trying a case. I also know what it is like to be supervising a Customs agent working on the national money-laundering strategy. I 

also know what it is like to be at the Justice Department looking 

at how can we get more cooperation from INS and Customs, the 

legacy agencies, in human smuggling cases. I also know what it is 

like to be at the Commerce Department, doing dual use export controls and trying to partner effectively with Immigration and Customs Enforcement on their common mission to prevent export violations. 

And those things will serve me well, Senator, and ensure that we 

can bring ICE and make it more successful as we move along. 

Senator VOINOVICH. What is your management style? 

Ms. MYERS. My management style is to ensure that employees 

know what the mission is of the Agency, know what is expected of 

them, and that they are required to live up to that. 

I will seek—I realize that I am not 80 years old. I have a few 

gray hairs, more coming. But I will seek to work with those who 

are knowledgeable in this area, who know more than I do. I will 

seek the knowledge of the experienced agents out in the field, that 

have worked cases in different ways and in different methods. I 

will partner closely with the other Federal law enforcement officials throughout the government. 

Based on my work in Washington, DC, and my work in New 

York, I am pleased to say that I have a close working relationship 

with most of the leading law enforcement officials in this town. 

And so I can call up the head of DEA and say how can we solve 

this problem? How can we get this done? 

I can call the head of the Criminal Division and say how can we 

partner more effectively with the Justice Department? And that is 

based on my work at the other agencies and the relationships and 

trust that I have built over time. 

I am confident that Secretary Chertoff recommended me based 

on my work at the Department. And if the Senate confirms me, I 

will not let you down. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you. 

Mr. Baker, have you had a chance to look at the Second Stage 

Review? 

Mr. BAKER. Yes I have, Senator, 

Senator VOINOVICH. What do you think of it? 

22

Mr. BAKER. I think it is a very helpful step forward in integrating the Department. 

Senator VOINOVICH. As the nominee for Assistant Secretary of 

Policy of DHS, do you feel comfortable that you will have the organization to facilitate your ability to get the job done? 

Mr. BAKER. The Secretary and the Deputy Secretary both are 

committed to having a successful Policy Office. They have the same 

vision that I do of its role in integrating the Department’s policies 

and communicating those policies effectively to the components so 

that they can align their policies early on with departmental priorities. 

So I actually believe that their vision and mine are exactly the 

same. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Levin. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LEVIN 

Senator LEVIN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

First for Mr. Baker, relative to your qualifications, you have testified that you expect to play a central role in reviewing the Department’s emergency planning and response and identifying lessons learned from Katrina. You are going to have to be looking at 

such matters as evacuation and plan development and execution, 

coordination between Federal, State and local government personnel, deployment of and coordination with National Guard and 

DOD personnel, development, use and purchase of interoperable 

communications equipment. 

You do not have any experience in those areas, do you? 

Mr. BAKER. No, my experience is principally in national security. 

And I will say in the area of interoperability, most of my last 10 

years of my private practice revolved around technology and the 

uses of technology, and many of the interoperability questions that 

we will struggle with are technical in nature. 

Senator LEVIN. In terms of the failure of the various units of government to have interoperability—interoperable equipment, those 

challenges specifically in those areas that they have not met, you 

do not have experience in that particular area? 

Mr. BAKER. I have worked in—large parts of my practice concerned how to make cell phones and new telephone technology subject to wiretap laws, to accommodate the structure and protocols 

that are used in new forms of technology to operate in a way that 

works for law enforcement. So while it is not directly relevant, it 

is pretty close. 

Senator LEVIN. Any other areas of emergency response, do you 

have any experience in those areas? 

Mr. BAKER. No. 

Senator LEVIN. In terms of whether or not grants should be riskbased or not, we have had a great dispute about that. This Committee has done some work relative to those formulas as to how 

those grants should be allocated, whether they ought to be riskbased, whether they ought to be apportioned in some other way. Do 

you have any views on that? 

Mr. BAKER. I think they should be risk-based as much as they 

can be. It is difficult to entirely predict where the risks are. And 

23

if those predictions are made public, the risk can shift. So it is important to take risk into account in making those decisions. 

Senator LEVIN. Would you agree that there are smaller places 

that have great risks? Places that maybe you or the public have 

never heard of that might have high risks? Would you agree with 

that? 

Mr. BAKER. I certainly could not rule that out. If we ruled something out, there is always the possibility that Al Qeada would say 

well, they have ruled that out, let us try that. 

Senator LEVIN. We have a small town in Michigan that is probably one of the largest entry points for commerce in the country, 

one of the top five. It has a bridge, it has a tunnel. It has a major 

chemical facility that is on the border with Canada with a very 

narrow river. It is called Port Huron. Have you ever heard of it? 

Mr. BAKER. I have. I went to Edsel Ford High School, Senator. 

Senator LEVIN. Places like that around the country, that people 

have never heard of perhaps in the Agency, even though they are 

small and their names are not known—I am glad you do know 

that—but nonetheless have to be taken into account. Would you 

agree? 

Mr. BAKER. I agree. 

Senator LEVIN. Ms. Myers, I, too, have questions in terms of your 

experience and qualifications, as to whether you meet the statutory 

test. I want to ask you about something that you, I believe, either 

knew about or should have known about however when you were 

the Chief of Staff for Michael Chertoff at the Criminal Division. 

There have been publicly released E-mails now of FBI agents expressing deep concerns at Guantanamo because of the behavior of 

certain Department of Defense personnel toward detainees. It was 

such a hotly debated issue between those personnel who were in 

the Department of Justice Criminal Division, that the FBI personnel said that they could not even stay there, could not participate. They used the word torture in one of those E-mails. They 

used the word, in one of the E-mails that went back to the Department of Justice, they said that their concerns were so deep that 

they had to be raised, they had to be discussed, and that the FBI, 

they thought could not participate in any of the interrogations, of 

any of the dealings with the detainees. 

The discussions were so heated that sometimes phones were 

slammed down. 

Did you know anything about those disputes when you were 

there? 

Ms. MYERS. No, I did not, Senator. 

Senator LEVIN. Who did? Chertoff did not know, you did not 

know, Fisher did not know. Who did? When we talk about management, this is not a common kind of event where there is some dispute over who is going to win a World Series game. 

This is where you have weekly meetings that are referred to in 

these E-mails, weekly meetings where these disputes were aired 

down at Guantanamo between Department of Justice personnel 

and the DOD. You have got four named people, Bruce Schwartz, 

Dave Namius, Laura Parsky, and Alice Fisher. Do you know those 

folks? 

Ms. MYERS. I do, Senator. 

24

Senator LEVIN. They were involved. And they were horrified by 

what they saw. Who would have known inside the Department of 

Justice, if your boss did not know, Ms. Fisher did not know, and 

you did not know? We are talking about management. Who should 

have known? Who should have gotten those E-mails? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I believe the E-mails you are referring to 

were produced later after the time——

Senator LEVIN. But they were about events at the time you were 

there. They describe events at the time. 

Ms. MYERS. That is correct, Senator. 

Senator LEVIN. Have you ever talked to either Fisher, Schwartz, 

Namius, or Parsky about these events? Or Chertoff? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I was present during the preparation, some 

of the preparation of Secretary Chertoff and Ms. Fisher for their 

hearings. Other than that, I have not heard any discussions with 

respect to these matters. 

Senator LEVIN. And so those matters were discussed during preparations for those hearings? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, at the time of preparation for Ms. Fisher’s 

hearings, I understand that the E-mails were available. And so at 

that time, the E-mail was discussed, it is my understanding. 

Senator LEVIN. What was the nature of the discussion? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I do not recall what the nature the discussion was. I believe that it focused on what, if any, involvement any 

of these individuals had in this matter. 

Senator LEVIN. And what was the involvement? 

Ms. MYERS. I believe Secretary Chertoff and Ms. Fisher could 

speak best for themselves about their involvement. I would tell you 

that I had no involvement, sir. 

Senator LEVIN. The first you ever heard about this is when you 

read it in the paper? Or what was the first time you ever heard 

about these disputes? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I do not recall when I first learned about 

the existence of these E-mails. 

Senator LEVIN. I am talking about the disputes between Department of Justice personnel and the Department of Defense personnel whose tactics the Department of Justice personnel who are 

on Chertoff’s staff were objecting to? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I was not——

Senator LEVIN. When did you first hear about those disputes? 

That is my question. 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, I believe it was either in the paper or in 

preparation for Secretary Chertoff’s hearings. When I was at the 

Department, my focus was on the Office of Administration, as well 

as some of the other more sensitive sections. 

Senator LEVIN. My time is up for this round. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. The Senate has begun two roll call votes. I 

would suggest that we each ask one question and then will submit 

to the witnesses considerable additional questions for the record. 

The hearing record will remain open until 5 o’clock tomorrow for 

the submission of additional questions and other materials. 

Ms. Myers, a lot of individuals and organizations that have taken 

a look at the Department of Homeland Security have proposed the 

merger of ICE and the Customs and Border Protection. I underVerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:37 Apr 12, 2006 Jkt 024237 PO 00000 Frm 00028 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\24237.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
25

stand that Secretary Chertoff has decided, at least for the time 

being, not to pursue a merger of ICE and CBP. The Inspector General has done a report that should be released shortly, which I understand will recommend the merger of ICE and CBP. 

What I have found and what I understand that the IG report has 

confirmed is that many field employees of the two agencies are 

very frustrated with what they view as the unnatural separation 

between the two organizations. In addition, there have been turf 

battles, budget fights, and a feeling among outside law enforcement 

that the current organization has not worked well. 

What is your view on combining the two agencies? 

Ms. MYERS. Chairman Collins, I appreciate that question and the 

concerns regarding coordination that feed into that question. It is 

my belief that both agencies are under the same roof, under the 

same leadership, under Secretary Chertoff and that they should be 

coordinating well and properly on all of their day-to-day functions, 

as I should with CIS and other law enforcement parts of the Department. 

With respect to whether or not the two agencies should be 

merged, it is my understanding, as you noted, that the Secretary 

and the Department undertook a very thorough review of whether 

or not that made sense, and that they determined that it was in 

the best and most strategic interest of the Department for the two 

agencies to remain separate. But that there should be some additional steps taken to improve coordination. And the steps taken to 

improve coordination that the Department is suggesting, include an 

Office of Operation Coordinations which would coordinate a relationship not only between ICE and CBP but also between the CBP 

and Coast Guard or the CBP and the Secret Service, as well as the 

Policy Office that is hopefully going to be headed by Stewart Baker. 

That is a central policy making force that would unify relationships. 

I will tell you that I am very concerned about the reports I hear 

about the failure to have proper coordination. If confirmed, it is one 

of my top priorities to ensure that these agencies work well together and work side-by-side. 

I know Commissioner Bonner from our time at Treasury together, and I have already met with him twice to talk about ways 

that the agencies can improve intelligence sharing, can improve 

joint initiatives, and can work more effectively together. I will send 

that message to the field, as well. 

Chairman COLLINS. Thank you. Senator Lieberman. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Madam Chairman. 

Ms. Myers, as you well know, ICE has a C as well as an I in it. 

There are some observers who think that thus far the Department 

has not given enough priority to the customs enforcement parts of 

it. I wondered what your feelings are about that and what priorities you would have if you take this position for customs enforcement? 

Ms. MYERS. Well, certainly the C part of the mission, the customs part, is the part that I was most familiar with from my previous experience. One of my highest priorities will be to ensure 

that ICE’s important customs missions are not diminished or neglected in any way. 

26

In particular, I am interested in the work on anti-money-laundering as well as strategic arms. I think we should look to see 

where we can fold in immigration enforcement with those. If we 

are bringing a money-laundering case, is there an immigration 

angle? If it is an immigration case, is there a money-laundering 

angle? 

We should look at, for example, are there individuals who are in 

this country illegally who are trying to gain access to our sensitive 

goods and technologies? That is a way, again, that our immigration 

mission and our customs mission coincide and intersect. 

But I am absolutely committed to those missions and have enjoyed working in those for a number of years. 

Senator LIEBERMAN. Good. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Voinovich. 

Senator VOINOVICH. There is a recently released audit noting 

that the Agency has been plagued with financial management 

issues and that ICE, which has had a lengthy hiring freeze as a 

result of financial difficulties, has asked Congress to reprogram 

several hundred million dollars in the last year alone. Are you familiar with these issues? 

Ms. MYERS. Yes, I am, Senator. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Do you understand that will be one of the 

challenges you will face if you are confirmed? 

Ms. MYERS. No question, Senator. Absolutely. I have already met 

not only with the CFO for the Department but also ICE’s Acting 

CFO. And financial management would be one of my top priorities 

to focus on. 

In trying to figure out what went wrong, how ICE got where they 

are, it appeared to me that there were really three core reasons 

that they got in the situation they are. And I think those provide 

guidance for how we can move forward then more effectively. 

First, as has been previously noted, the initial allocation of funds 

within the Department was not necessarily even. And so ICE did 

not receive the proper allocation of funding in the beginning. That 

has been corrected, thanks to the help of Congress. 

I think the second reason is that ICE was still getting up to 

speed, in terms of having top financial managers in place in the organization. To this day, ICE does not have a permanent chief financial officer. 

If confirmed, I would make sure to do that immediately and to 

ensure that proper financial management practices are followed. 

The third reason is ICE’s mission has been stretched beyond belief. Last year there were more removals than ever before. They are 

continuing to do more and more while working with limited resources. So that has been a challenge that the Agency has had to 

get its arms around. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you. 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Levin. 

Senator LEVIN. Thank you. This is a question which follows up 

on some of Senator Lieberman’s concerns relative to asylees. 

Due to delays in our immigration process, a country’s situation 

can change from the time that an alien flees his home country to 

the United States and when he finally receives a hearing before a 

judge. 

27

One such case relates to Iraq. We have got about 1,000 Iraqi 

families in this country who came here legally seeking asylum in 

the 1990s. They fled Saddam Hussein, and they had good reasons 

to flee Saddam Hussein. They requested asylum when they got to 

this country. 

Then in 2003, with Saddam Hussein gone, the question is are 

they still going to be treated according to the law which existed 

and the facts which existed at the time they fled? Or are they now 

going to be shipped back to Iraq where there are plenty of dangers? 

That is not the main point. The main point is they came here legally, sought asylum, set down roots, raised families, opened businesses. I am talking about people against whom there is no evidence of improper or illegal conduct. 

Now what? Are we going to treat them fairly? Or are we going 

to say that we are going to uproot you because now Saddam is 

gone, and send you back to a country where again there is plenty 

of dangers for them. Many of them would have to go back to areas 

which are dangerous. 

But beyond that, when they have abided by all of our rules, and 

when the reasons for their coming would have qualified them for 

asylum at the time they came. What rules should apply to them? 

Ms. MYERS. Senator, your question points out kind of a fundamental problem of things taking too long once people get here and 

apply for the proper avenues of relief. 

It is my understanding that ICE has a policy of evaluating circumstances in cases like this on a case-by-case basis, to make sure 

we are treating people fairly and not penalizing them for the slowness of our government processes. 

If confirmed, I would make sure that is the procedure that is followed. 

Chairman COLLINS. Senator Levin, the time has expired in the 

vote. Accordingly, we are going to have to end the hearing, but I 

would invite you to submit additional questions for the record. 

I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. 

This hearing is now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:04 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

(29)

A P P E N D I X 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA 

Thank you Chairman Collins. I wish to add my welcome to Mr. Baker, Ms. Myers, 

and their families and friends. 

You are both here because you wish to continue your careers in public service by 

serving as Assistant Secretaries in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). 

These positions demand individuals who have demonstrated extensive executive 

level leadership and the ability to manage a sizable budget and diverse workforce. 

Mr. Baker, if confirmed, you will be the first DHS Assistant Secretary for Policy, 

and you will help define the role of the Office of Policy. 

Ms. Myers, you have been nominated to lead Immigration and Customs Enforcement, an agency that is currently facing significant financial and human resource 

management challenges. 

While every nomination considered by the Senate is important, I believe that today’s hearing will be watched carefully by the American people, who are looking to 

this Committee to make sure we ask the appropriate, and sometimes tough, questions. The people of Hawaii, like all Americans, want to make sure that those leading DHS have the necessary experience and qualifications. 

The creation of DHS in 2003 was the largest reorganization of the Federal Government since the Department of Defense was established in 1947. The merging of 

22 legacy agencies into a single agency has created management challenges that 

DHS will face for years to come. Because of these significant challenges, DHS needs 

strong leaders. A qualified candidate must possess extensive experience managing 

people and budgets in addition to having experience in immigration or law enforcement or intelligence. 

I am especially concerned about the current state of ICE, which is the second largest Federal law enforcement agency with a $4 billion budget and over 15,000 employees in over 400 offices around the world. 

ICE has extraordinary reach, extraordinary responsibilities for our national security, and extraordinary problems. 

Financial difficulties have resulted in hiring freezes and reductions in training, 

bonuses, and travel. ICE’s financial crisis has resulted in DHS reprogramming $500 

million in FY 04 and FY 05 funds and requesting an additional $267 million in the 

April 2005 emergency supplemental. Despite assurances that ICE’s financial problems have been resolved, DHS Inspector General Richard Skinner testified in July 

2005 that ICE cannot properly account for millions of dollars every month due to 

its deficient financial management system. This financial crisis has had an adverse 

impact on the readiness and morale of the ICE workforce. 

ICE needs strong, experienced leadership to repair these management problems. 

Mr. Baker, the Administration has submitted legislation to the Congress that this 

Committee is now considering which would create the position of an Undersecretary 

for Policy. According to Secretary Chertoff’s transmittal letter to the Congress on 

his proposal, dated July 13, 2005, the new Office of Policy ‘‘will lead a unified, mission-focused policy approach’’ and will include a number of existing units, such as 

the Office of International Affairs, the Special Assistant to the Secretary for Private 

Sector Coordination, the Border and Transportation Security Policy and Planning 

Office, elements of the Border and Transportation Security Office of International 

Enforcement, the Homeland Security Advisory Committee, and the Office of Immigration Statistics. In addition, the Secretary is proposing to add a strategic policy 

planning office and a refugee policy coordinator. 

This is an enormous range of new responsibilities and will require someone with 

extensive management experience and vision. 

I would argue that the key focus of this office should be on strategic planning. 

Given the nature of this office should be on strategic planning. Given the nature 

30

of the Department’s enormous size and breadth of responsibilities, someone is needed who can provide focus and direction to the mission of preventing and responding 

to terrorist attacks and natural disasters. 

Mr. Baker, you are being nominated for the position of Assistant Secretary with 

the expectation of moving into the Undersecretary position should the Congress pass 

the reform proposal. One of the issues this Committee will have to address is whether you will need to be reconfirmed at a later date for that higher position should 

you be confirmed for the Assistant Secretary position. 

One of the lessons learned from the Hurricane Katrina response is that the senior 

officials of an agency should have demonstrated leadership skills. The positions of 

Assistant Secretary for ICE and Assistant Secretary for Policy are no exception. 

I would like to draw the attention of my colleagues to one measure of leadership 

skills: The standards the Office of Personnel Management has developed for the government’s career Senior Executive Service (SES). 

To qualify for an SES position, a candidate must possess the following five executive qualifications:

• Leading Change; 

• Leading People; 

• Being Results Driven; 

• Having Business Acumen; and 

• Building coalitions/Communications.

SES candidates demonstrate these qualifications through experience in key executive skills such as leading others to rapidly adjust organizational behavior and work 

methods; supervising and managing a diverse workforce; developing strategic 

human capital management plans; establishing performance standards and plans; 

managing the budgetary process; overseeing the allocation of financial resources; 

and developing and maintaining positive working relationships with internal groups 

and external groups such as Congress, the Office of Management and Budget, and 

the White House. 

These qualifications and experiences help ensure that the Federal Government’s 

senior executives have the ability to establish a clear vision for the organization and 

to drive others to succeed. While political appointees are not required to meet these 

qualifications, I believe it would be difficult for an agency head to be successful 

without them. 

I look forward to this opportunity to hear from Mr. Baker and Ms. Myers. Thank 

you Madam Chairman.

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