From: Robert Berman [mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:05 PM

To: Bob Smith

Cc: Roy, Robin; Corkran, Jerry L; BolducChristopher; Anderson Richard; Ballo Timothy; Beck Scott R.;

Caskey John. F; Cymbalsky John; <adelaski@standardsasap.org>; Tom; FernstromGary; Gaytan Carlos;

GreesonRobert; <bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com>; HodgeGera ld R.; Hyland Michael J.; Millure David; Nadel

Steven; Patterson Wesley F.; Petersen Eric; Polinski Raymond; <art rosenfeld@gmail.com>;

RosenstockSteven J.; Simmons Charles E.; Cohen Dan; Coulter Greg; Creevy Jim;

<ahofmann@publicpower.org>; Kuma r Puesh; Mauer Joanna; Aaron Meyers; <jrossetti@mlgw.org>;

Ryan Paul; Schoen Jerry W.; Waltner, Meg; Brian Coffey; Coughlin Katie;

<brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov>; <jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov>; Caitlin Johnson; Zhimei Luo;

<emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov>; Michae l Rivest; Rosenquist Gregory; Drexler Charles R.; PhilHopkinson;

<James.Lass@cleco.com>; Sampat Mahe shP.; <DYoung@energy-solution.com>;

<chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric. com>; <eduardorobles@eaton.com>;

<vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com>; Kenneth Winder ; <thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com>;

<carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com>; Raba Jim; Parker Richard; Robert Berman; Saint, Robert D.

Subject: Re: Cost of Capital to Electric Utilities



### Sorry Bob, I must respectfully disagree. Consider that TIPS yields are lower than conventional

Treasury securities -- the differen ce being what the market expects inflation to be. Inflation is

very much a factor in interests rates and equity yields. Banks must indeed consider inflation as

well as everyone else in the market. Banks don't get to pick the interest rate anymore than you or

your members do. Both need to take the rate se rved up by the market, and the market does very

much consider inflation.

Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703.281.0490

703.655.8398 (cell)

Berman.Economics@gmail.com

www.BermanEconomics.com

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 14, 2011, at 7:41 PM, "Bob Smith" < bsmith@federalpacific.com > wrote:

Fellow Negotiated Rule Making Members:

We seem to be adding unnecessary confusion to our analyses.

Banks don’t care about Inflation or CPI. Banks measure their success on the cost to borrow money

versus the interest rate they can charge on loans of this money.The discount factor that we assume in our present worth calculations is simply an algebraic term for

discounting future revenues and expenditures which have nothing to do with CPI. CPI is an indicator of

what a given quantity of tangible goods cost when referenced to some base period.

We could, if we wanted to, express our analysis in “easy

‐ to

‐ understand” terms that are meaningful such

as “barrels of oil” or “tons of coal” that are saved, as we move toward higher efficiencies

.

Regards,

Bob Smith, PE

Product Manager

Federal Pacific

601 Old Airport Road

Bristol, VA 24201

TEL: (276) 645-8836

FAX: (276) 645-8956

CELL: (276) 591-6143

Email: bsmith@federalpacific.com

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From: Roy, Robin [ mailto:rroy@nrdc.org ]

Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 7:26 PM

To: Saint, Robert D.; Robert Berman

Cc: Corkran, Jerry L; Bolduc Christopher; Anderson Ri chard; Ballo Timothy; Beck Scott R.; Caskey John.

F; Cymbalsky John; adelaski@standardsasap.org ; Tom; Fernstrom Gary; Gaytan Carlos; Greeson Robert;

bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com ; Hodge Gerald R.; Hyland Michael J.; Millure David; Nadel Steven; Patterson

Wesley F.; Petersen Eric; Polinski Raymond; artrosenfeld@gmail.com ; Rosenstock Steven J.; Simmons

Charles E.; Cohen Dan; Coulter Greg; Creevy Jim; ahofmann@publicpower.org ; Kumar Puesh; Mauer

Joanna; Aaron Meyers; jrossetti@mlgw.org ; Ryan Paul; Schoen Jerry W.; bsmith@federalpacific.com ;

Waltner, Meg; brian.coffey@navigant.com ; Coughlin Katie; brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov ;

jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov ; Johnson Caitlin; zhimei.luo@navigant.com ; emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov ;

mrivest@navigant.com ; Rosenquist Gregory; Drexler Charles R.; Phil Hopkinson; James.Lass@cleco.com ;

Sampat Mahesh P.; DYoung@energy-solution.com ; chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com ;

eduardorobles@eaton.com ; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com ; Kenneth Winder;thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com ; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com ; Raba Jim; Parker Richard

Subject: RE: Cost of Capital to Electric Utilities

Thanks Bob,

Is the 6.22% rate of return real or nominal?

If it’s 6.22% nominal, then with cpi currently at ~3.9% the real rate is around 2.2%, which suggests 7% is

high.

Cheers, Robin

From: Saint, Robert D. [ mailto:robert.saint@nreca.coop ]

Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 4:03 PM

To: Robert Berman

Cc: Corkran, Jerry L; Bolduc Christopher; Anderson Ri chard; Ballo Timothy; Beck Scott R.; Caskey John.

F; Cymbalsky John; adelaski@standardsasap.org Delaski; Tom; Fernstrom Gary; Gaytan Carlos; Greeson

Robert; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com Hirsch R; Hodge Gerald R.; Hyland Michael J.; Millure David; Nadel

Steven; Patterson Wesley F.; Petersen Eric; Polinski Raymond; artrosenfeld@gmail.com Rosenfeld;

Rosenstock Steven J.; Roy, Robin; Simmons Ch arles E.; Cohen Dan; Coulter Greg; Creevy Jim;

ahofmann@publicpower.org Hofmann; Kumar Puesh; Mauer Joanna; Aaron Meyers; jrossetti@mlgw.org

Rossetti; Ryan Paul; Schoen Jerry W.; bsmith@federalpacific.com Smith; Waltner, Meg;

brian.coffey@navigant.com Coffey; Coughlin Katie; brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov Edwards;

jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov Freeman; Johnson Caitlin; zhimei.luo@navigant.com Luo;

emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov ; mrivest@navigant.com Rivest; Rosenquist Gregory; Drexler Charles R.; Phil

Hopkinson; James.Lass@cleco.com Lass; Sampat Mahesh P.; DYoung@energy-solution.com Young;

chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com Kennedy; eduardorobles@eaton.com Robles;

vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com Tendulkar; Kenneth Winder; thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com

Patzner; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com Siquieros; Raba Jim; Parker Richard

Subject: RE: Cost of Capital to Electric Utilities



### Robert—

After much discussion within NRECA and consultation with a major supplemental lender for

distribution cooperatives, we have come up with median Rate of Return on Total Capitalization

of 6.22% for electric cooperatives. So, the 7% figure being used is well within the ball park.



# Bob Saint

Principal Distribution Engineer, Energy and Power Division

National Rural Electric Cooperative Association (NRECA)

4301 Wilson Blvd

Arlington, VA 22203

Phone: (703) 907-5863

Cell: (703) 283-5078

From: Robert Berman [ mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com ]

Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 5:47 AM

To: Parker Richard

Cc: Robert Berman; Corkran, Jerry L; Bolduc Christop her; Anderson Richard; Ballo Timothy; Beck Scott

R.; Caskey John. F; Cymbalsky John; adelaski@standardsasap.org Delaski; Tom; Fernstrom Gary; GaytanCarlos; Greeson Robert; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com Hirsch R; Hodge Gerald R.; Hyland Michael J.; Millure

David; Nadel Steven; Patterson Wesley F.; Petersen Eric; Polinski Raymond; artrosenfeld@gmail.com

Rosenfeld; Rosenstock Steven J.; Roy Robin; Saint, Robert D.; Simmons Charle s E.; Cohen Dan; Coulter

Greg; Creevy Jim; ahofmann@publicpower.org Hofmann; Kumar Puesh; Mauer Joanna; Aaron Meyers;

jrossetti@mlgw.org Rossetti; Ryan Paul; Schoen Jerry W.; bsmith@federalpacific.com Smith; Waltner

Meg; brian.coffey@navigant.com Coffey; Coughlin Katie; brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov Edwards;

jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov Freeman; Johnson Caitlin; zhimei.luo@navigant.com Luo;

emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov ; mrivest@navigant.com Rivest; Rosenquist Gregory; Drexler Charles R.; Phil

Hopkinson; James.Lass@cleco.com Lass; Sampat Mahesh P.; DYoung@energy-solution.com Young;

chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com Kennedy; eduardorobles@eaton.com Robles;

vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com Tendulkar; Kenneth Winder; thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com

Patzner; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com Siquieros; Raba Jim

Subject: Cost of Capital to Electric Utilities



### Richard and All,

For those interested in the curren t cost of money to investor owne d electric utilities, the weighted

average cost of capital a ppears to be a little over 5%. This is composed of about 7% equity and

4% debt. See attached for full li st of sector costs. As noted in my earlier email to Ken, rural

electric coops and municipals typically borrow fr om RUS at rates pegged to long-term treasuries

-- currently about 3%. Links also included her for convenience.

http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/UEP_Rates.html

and http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/UEP_Loans_Grants.html

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