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26–233 PDF 2006

S. HRG. 109–309

NOMINATIONS OF SHANA LEIGH DALE TO BE

DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR OF NASA; KATHRYN

O’LEARY HIGGINS AND MARK V. ROSENKER

TO BE MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL

TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, 

SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

NOVEMBER 1, 2005

Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation

(

(II)

SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

TED STEVENS, Alaska, Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

CONRAD BURNS, Montana 

TRENT LOTT, Mississippi 

KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, Texas 

OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine 

GORDON H. SMITH, Oregon 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

GEORGE ALLEN, Virginia 

JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire 

JIM DEMINT, South Carolina 

DAVID VITTER, Louisiana 

DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii, Co-Chairman 

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia 

JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts 

BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota 

BARBARA BOXER, California 

BILL NELSON, Florida 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

FRANK R. LAUTENBERG, New Jersey 

E. BENJAMIN NELSON, Nebraska 

MARK PRYOR, Arkansas 

LISA J. SUTHERLAND, Republican Staff Director 

CHRISTINE DRAGER KURTH, Republican Deputy Staff Director 

DAVID RUSSELL, Republican Chief Counsel 

MARGARET L. CUMMISKY, Democratic Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

SAMUEL E. WHITEHORN, Democratic Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel 

LILA HARPER HELMS, Democratic Policy Director 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on November 1, 2005 ........................................................................ 1

Statement of Senator Allen ..................................................................................... 5

Statement of Senator Inouye .................................................................................. 2

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 2

Letters from Hon. Barbara A. Mikulski and Hon. Hillary Rodham

Clinton, supporting Kathryn O’Leary Higgins................................................. 4,5

Statement of Senator Pryor .................................................................................... 27

Statement of Senator Stevens ................................................................................ 1

WITNESSES

Dale, Shana Leigh, Nominee to be Deputy Administrator of NASA ................... 19

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 20

Biographical information ................................................................................. 22

Levin, Hon. Sander M., U.S. Representative from Michigan ............................... 4

Higgins, Kathryn O’Leary, Nominee to be a Member of the National Transportation Safety Board ........................................................................................ 7

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 8

Biographical information ................................................................................. 9

Rosenker, Mark V., Nominee to be a Member of the National Transportation 

Safety Board ......................................................................................................... 12

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 13

Biographical information ................................................................................. 14

Sarbanes, Hon. Paul S., U.S. Senator from Maryland ......................................... 3

APPENDIX

Nelson, Hon. Bill, U.S. Senator from Florida, prepared statement ..................... 31

Hall, Hon. Ralph M., U.S. Representative from Texas, prepared statement ..... 31

(1)

NOMINATIONS OF SHANA LEIGH DALE TO BE 

DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR OF NASA;

KATHRYN O’LEARY HIGGINS AND MARK V. 

ROSENKER TO BE MEMBERS OF THE

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY 

BOARD 

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 2005

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in room 

SD–562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ted Stevens,

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. TED STEVENS,

U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA 

The CHAIRMAN. Our apologies. It seems the two of us got lost trying to find this room. 

[Laughter.] 

The CHAIRMAN. This morning the Committee will hear from 

nominees for positions at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the National Transportation Safety Board. 

For decades, our Nation’s space program has focused on Space 

Shuttle operations. Recently the President gave us a new Vision for 

Space Exploration which will take our country back to the moon 

and eventually to Mars. Fulfilling this vision will pose many technological and budgetary challenges. The team which Dr. Griffin is 

assembling will take our first steps toward attempting to achieve 

this vision. 

Ms. Dale, Dr. Griffin and I have spoken about your nomination. 

I look forward to hearing from you. Specifically, I am interested in 

how you see yourself fitting in to the NASA hierarchy and what 

you think will be some of the major contributions you may make 

to that agency. 

Since 1967, the National Transportation Safety Board has investigated all civil aviation accidents and major accidents in other 

transportation modes. It also consults with investigators in other 

countries on major transportation accidents outside the United 

States. The NTSB employs more than 400 people at various locations. It has headquarters in Washington, D.C., 10 regional offices 

throughout the country, and a training academy near Leesburg. 

2

The Department of Transportation’s Inspector General has oversight responsibilities over the NTSB. In 2004, the IG identified information security as a material weakness at the agency and made 

a number of recommendations. 

Last month, the IG completed a second audit. The IG found that 

beyond hiring a Chief Information Officer, the agency had made little progress toward increasing its information security. IG investigators were able to crack the Internet passwords that control access to the NTSB network. Further, investigators were able to access sensitive information, including real-time conversations between pilots and controllers during an accident. This is far from an 

acceptable level of security, and we look forward to hearing the 

nominee’s views on this issue. 

Mark Rosenker is currently the acting Chairman of the National 

Transportation Safety Board. He is also Vice Chairman, a position 

nominated by the President but not requiring Senate confirmation. 

He is before the Committee today for his renomination as an NTSB 

member for a 5-year term. He has been nominated to a Republican 

seat. 

Kitty Higgins is a former Senate staffer who went on to work in 

the Clinton Administration and at the National Trust for Historic 

Preservation. 

We look forward to having both of you before the Committee 

today. 

I will turn to Senator Inouye for comments before we turn to our 

colleagues. 

STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL K. INOUYE,

U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII 

Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Sensing all the nominees are eager to get to work, I ask that my 

statement be made part of the record. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Inouye follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL K. INOUYE, U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII

For nearly 40 years, the NTSB’s dogged investigations of transportation accidents 

have improved the safety of America’s transportation system, and its work, though 

often unnoticed, has helped millions of travelers arrive safely at their destinations 

every day. The NTSB and its staff are widely recognized for their unparalleled attention to detail and impartiality. 

For the NTSB to be effective, its Members must be above politics. Congress depends on the Board to work cooperatively and to build upon its proven track record. 

The Board must continue to improve transportation safety based on both the evidence that it receives and the tireless work of its dedicated experts. 

We look forward to learning more about Mr. Rosenker and Ms. Higgins, their 

qualifications, their thoughts on the NTSB’s future, and the role they will play. 

We also have with us, Ms. Shana Dale, who has been nominated to be Deputy 

Administrator at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The 

Committee has great confidence in Administrator Michael Griffin, and he has made 

it clear that he wants you at NASA as soon as possible. 

You will be entering NASA at a challenging time. The agency is trying to keep 

flying and live up to its current commitments while building a new vehicle and beginning a new program of lunar exploration. Managing the transition from the current program to NASA’s future will require the agency to make smart choices about 

using resources and technology. 

When resources get tight, I hope that you will not cut to the bone, particularly 

in science, education, and aeronautics.

3

The CHAIRMAN. I am sorry to have delayed our colleagues. 

We should turn to Senator Sarbanes to introduce the person he 

wishes to speak about. 

STATEMENT OF HON. PAUL S. SARBANES,

U.S. SENATOR FROM MARYLAND 

Senator SARBANES. Well, thank you very much, Chairman Stevens and Senator Inouye. I am very pleased to be before the Committee. 

You have got a terrific nominee here before the Committee this 

morning in Kitty Higgins. I have known Kitty a long time. She is 

a resident of Annapolis in my state. We are very proud to have her 

as a resident. 

The Members of this Committee, of course, know well the very 

significant work of the National Transportation Safety Board. It is 

really critical to the safety and the well-being of the American traveling public. They provide independent federal oversight for all civil 

aviation accidents in the U.S., as well as investigatory responsibility for significant tragedies on our waterways, railroads, and 

highways. So it is very significant work. 

Kitty Higgins brings very significant qualifications for this position. Out of the University of Nebraska, she worked in the Department of Labor. She then was on the White House Domestic Policy 

Council during the Carter Administration as Assistant Director for 

Employment Policy. She then went to work on Capitol Hill, including 4 years as the minority staff director on the Labor and Human 

Resources Committee, and then went over to the House side and 

served as Chief of Staff for 7 years for Congressman Sandy Levin 

who, Mr. Chairman, is here with us this morning. You may want 

to have a reference from him as well. 

She joined the Clinton Administration in 1993 as Chief of Staff 

to the Secretary of Labor. She left the Labor Department in 1995, 

became Assistant to the President and Secretary to the Cabinet. As 

Cabinet Secretary, she was the key administrative official in the 

coordination of the response to a number of important natural and 

national disasters, including the ValuJet and the TWA flight 800 

crashes. So she has dealt extensively in that position with the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration and knows intimately their work. 

In March 1997, she was nominated to be Deputy Secretary of 

Labor, unanimously confirmed by the Senate in that post. So she 

was at the Labor Department as the Chief Operating Officer of the 

Department beginning in 1997. 

She has also served as Vice Chair of the Presidential Council on 

the U.S. Coast Guard Roles and Missions, and when she left the 

Federal Government, she was at the National Trust for Historic 

Preservation for 5 years. 

She is an enormously accomplished, skilled, knowledgeable, and 

effective government servant. She has carried out very significant 

responsibilities in her various positions over the course of her career. And I have every confidence she will do an absolutely outstanding job as a member of the National Transportation Safety 

Board, and I commend her very strongly to the Committee. 

The CHAIRMAN. A very substantial recommendation, Senator. 

4

Congressman Levin, did you wish to have a comment at this 

time? 

STATEMENT OF HON. SANDER M. LEVIN,

U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM MICHIGAN 

Mr. LEVIN. Senators, I appreciate the chance to say just a few 

words. 

I came over here basically to sit and kind of revel in this nomination. There is no one I have met who has more integrity, who has 

more public interest. She has, I think, unusual experience in both 

the executive and the legislative branches of our government. 

She also, from her early years, as I have been told—and I saw 

it firsthand when she worked in the House—has a deep sensitivity 

to the public and for the individual’s interest. That really is what 

safety is all about, its impact on us as individuals. She has also 

had experience through her work with the White House in matters 

relating to safety. 

So I just wanted to come here and join Senator Sarbanes in saying to you that I think this is a superb nomination, and Kitty Higgins, as she has always done in the past, will completely live up 

to the trust, in this case, of the U.S. Senate. 

Thank you so much, Senator. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, Sandy, it is nice to have you over here to 

see where your brother lives. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. LEVIN. I have heard rumors. 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Inouye. 

Senator INOUYE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I have two letters, one from Senator Barbara Mikulski, the other 

from Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, supporting Kathryn O’Leary 

Higgins for this position. 

The CHAIRMAN. They will be placed in the record, without objection. 

[The letters of Senator Mikulski and Senator Clinton follow:]

BARBARA A. MIKULSKI, UNITED STATES SENATE

Washington, DC, November 1, 2005

Hon. DANIEL K. INOUYE, 

Ranking Member, 

Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, 

Washington, DC.

Dear Senator Inouye:

I am writing to support Kathryn O’Leary Higgins’ appointment to the National 

Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). 

The mission of the NTSB is to investigate every civil aviation accident in the 

United States—as well as significant accidents in other modes of transportation. 

The NTSB is also charged with issuing safety recommendations to prevent future 

accidents. Kitty Higgins’ extraordinary experience and analytical abilities make her 

well suited for this critical position. 

Ms. Higgins has a wide range of experience in both the Executive and the Legislative branches of government. As President Clinton’s Cabinet Secretary, she worked 

closely with the NTSB and the Department of Transportation. As liaison to both 

agencies, she worked with the FAA on safety inspector staffing and surveillance—

which are both critical components of aviation accident investigations. She also 

worked with the FAA and Congress to increase inspector staffing in the aftermath 

of the ValuJet and TWA 800 accidents. She played a key role in coordinating the 

federal agencies that investigated the accidents. In addition, she worked to improve 

communication and assistance to families of the victims. 

5

Ms. Higgins has also worked closely with the U.S. Coast Guard. She co-chaired 

the Coast Guard Roles and Missions Commission. Currently, she serves as a member of the Navigation Council for the Coast Guard’s Deep Water Procurement 

Project. 

Kitty Higgins has had a remarkable career in government service. As a Member 

of the National Transportation Safety Board, she would continue her work to improve the safety of our nation’s transportation systems. I enthusiastically support 

her appointment. 

Sincerely, 

BARBARA A. MIKULSKI, 

U.S. Senator. 

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, UNITED STATES SENATE

Washington, DC, October 31, 2005

Hon. DANIEL K. INOUYE, 

Ranking Member, 

Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee, 

Washington, DC.

Dear Dan:

I write in strong support of the nomination of Kathryn ‘‘Kitty’’ Higgins to the National Transportation Safety Board. 

I have known Kitty Higgins for 12 years. She has over 30 years of experience in 

both the public and private sectors and served as Secretary to the President’s Cabinet during the Clinton Administration. At that time, she worked closely with the 

NTSB on the 1996 ValuJet and TWA 800 accident investigations. She understands 

how important it is to protect the Board’s independence while insuring that all the 

relevant federal, state and local agencies are consulted and participate. She worked 

closely with the Federal Aviation Administration on a number of issues including 

reform legislation enacted by the Committee. She also had the opportunity to work 

with the Coast Guard and served as Vice Chair of the Coast Guard Roles and Missions Commission that made recommendations to the President. Kitty currently 

serves as a Member of the Navigation Council for the Coast Guard’s Deepwater 

Project. She also has a wealth of experience working on labor and employment 

issues which gives her a particular understanding of the needs of workers and the 

importance of technical and safety training. 

Kitty Higgins is eminently qualified to serve on the National Transportation and 

Safety Board. She has a strong record of bi-partisanship, a wealth of experience 

with complex issues, and the ability to work with people of diverse views. In addition to her professional qualifications, she is one of the finest individuals I have 

known and devotes much of her time and energy to her church and many worthwhile causes. I urge you to confirm her nomination. 

Sincerely yours, 

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, 

U.S. Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. We will turn to the introduction of the nominee 

Senator Allen supports. 

STATEMENT OF HON. GEORGE ALLEN,

U.S. SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA 

Senator ALLEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Senator Inouye, 

Senator Pryor. Thank you for allowing me to introduce and present 

to the Committee——

The CHAIRMAN. Pardon me. Did you have any comment, Senator 

Pryor? 

Senator PRYOR. I do not. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead. 

Senator ALLEN. It sounds like Ms. Higgins, by the way, Mr. 

Chairman, has plenty of glowing accolades. Let me present Mr. 

Mark Rosenker, now a resident of Virginia, to the Committee. 

6

I also want to say to Ms. Dale, living a lot of places around the 

country, thank you also for choosing Virginia as your place of residence as well. 

Let me focus on Mr. Rosenker, though. He has impressive qualifications, and I know you have it as part of the record for this nomination. Since his confirmation more than 21⁄2 and a half years ago, 

Mark Rosenker has demonstrated himself to be a qualified and energized member of this important federal agency. 

At this point I believe his wife Heather is right behind him. 

Heather, thank you for being here. I suspect during your comments, the Chairman will ask you to introduce your bride and any 

other colleagues or friends who are here who have come to support 

your nomination. 

During his tenure, Mr. Chairman, Mark has brought a wealth of 

management and advocacy experience to the board. With more 

than 36 years of active and reserve duty in the Air Force, having 

risen to the rank of major general, Mark’s decorations include the 

Distinguished Service Medal, Legion of Merit and two Meritorious 

Service Medals, which is outstanding for somebody to be serving on 

the National Transportation Safety Board. 

I think because of his unique combination of private sector and 

military experience, President Bush appointed Mark to be Deputy 

Assistant to the President and Director of the White House Military Office. After serving for 2 years in that White House position, 

President Bush nominated Mark to serve in his current position at 

the NTSB. Since he was confirmed in March of 2003, President 

Bush has twice designated Mark to serve in the role of Vice Chairman, and since March of this year, Mark has been serving with 

distinction as Acting Chairman of the NTSB. 

During this time on the board, Mark has been a strong and outspoken advocate for transportation safety. For his leadership role 

and in a variety of ways, but particularly in recreational boating 

issues, the National Safe Boating Council presented their highest 

honor, the Confluence Award, to him. This is traditionally given to 

Members of Congress, and Mark Rosenker is one of the very few 

executive branch people to receive this award. 

The aviation industry also acknowledges his leadership role in 

the challenging issue of preventing runway incursions. He has been 

outspoken in attempting to get the FAA to require that all children 

under the age of 2 be secured in safety belts while flying. I think 

all the passengers would like that, and so long as they are loose 

enough that the kids can lay over, if they are asleep and quiet, that 

probably would be fine as well as a parent. 

Mark is now a resident of Virginia. He spent a good deal of his 

youth in Maryland. Senator Sarbanes should know all this. He has 

gotten all these awards from the University of Maryland. I am not 

going to hold that against him. I am still for him. He was honored 

to be their commencement speaker. He was presented with their 

2001 Distinguished Centennial Graduate Award, which is quite an 

honor. 

Clearly, Mark Rosenker, Mr. Chairman and Members of the 

Committee, has demonstrated that he is capable and enthusiastic 

about the Board and its mission, and I respectfully urge my colleagues to swiftly support his reconfirmation. 

7

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

Our other nominee before us today is Ms. Dale. We have a letter 

of support here for Ms. Shana Dale from Representative Ralph 

Hall, and I had several personal phone calls from the administrator 

saying why had you not been the subject of hearings. So tell Mike 

we got to it right after we got his call. OK? 

Any further comments, Senator? 

Very well. Let us turn first then to Ms. Higgins. Ms. Higgins, you 

obviously have the support of all of the Irish mafia around here 

today. 

[Laughter.] 

The CHAIRMAN. But tell us a little bit about what you see for 

yourself in terms of this assignment. What are your priorities? 

STATEMENT OF KATHRYN O’LEARY HIGGINS, NOMINEE TO BE 

A MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY 

BOARD 

Ms. HIGGINS. Thank you, Senator. 

May I just introduce my daughter-in-law, Kate Higgins, who is 

here, representing all the Higgins and O’Learys today? And my son 

Kevan is at our embassy in Port-au–Prince, Haiti and I think is 

watching via the webcast there. 

As Senator Sarbanes and Congressman Levin said, I worked on 

these issues first when I was at the White House about 10 years 

ago. I gained enormous respect for the NTSB, the work that they 

do, the mission of the agency, and the career staff there, and look 

forward to joining them, if I am confirmed by the Senate. 

Senator I would say in my experience with the Board and looking 

at some of the current issues, I think there are a number of things 

that are of concern. I think budget resources, staffing resources are 

an important issue. I think the IG report that has already been 

mentioned raises some very troubling issues, and I know that is of 

concern to the Committee. I know it is a focus of the Vice Chairman and will be, obviously, an important concern to those of us 

who hope to serve on the Board. 

There are some other areas that are of interest, for example, the 

nexus between safety and security. TWA 800 was a protracted investigation because it raised the issue of security. It proved to be 

an accident, but obviously security has come to the forefront in the 

last few years, and I am interested in making sure that the focus 

on safety for all modes of transportation is not being jeopardized 

by the increased focus on national security. Both are important priorities. We just have to make sure that safety continues to have 

priority, along with security. 

I think there is a concern that we all share about the number 

of recent accidents in foreign countries on foreign carriers. The 

Board gets involved in investigating those accidents. Our safety 

record in aviation here has been pretty good the last couple of 

years, but there are an increasing number of fatal accidents occurring abroad. I would like to know more about that. What are the 

implications for the safety of American travelers who fly on those 

carriers? 

I looked at the RAND Corporation report, which was issued a 

number of years ago. It made a number of very important recVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:32 Mar 14, 2006 Jkt 026233 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 S:\WPSHR\GPO\DOCS\26233.TXT JACK PsN: JACKF
8

ommendations, particularly in the aviation area, about the work of 

the Board, the needs of the staff. My understanding is that those 

recommendations really have not been addressed. I would hope, if 

confirmed, to go back to that report and begin to ask some questions about which of those recommendations should get more attention. The report looked into the future and said, aviation is getting 

much more complex. The resources at the Board have not increased 

proportionately. The technology is increasing. We need to make 

sure that there is the training and other kinds of things that the 

staff there need to get the job done. 

[The prepared statement and biographical information of Ms. 

Higgins follow:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF KATHRYN O’LEARY HIGGINS, NOMINEE TO BE A MEMBER

OF THE NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, 

I welcome the opportunity to appear before you to today as you consider my nomination to serve as a Member of the National Transportation Safety Board. I am honored to have been selected by Senator Reid and nominated by President Bush for 

this important position. If confirmed, I commit to you that I will dedicate myself 

to helping ensure that the NTSB meets its vital safety obligations to the traveling 

public. 

I believe my over 30 years of experience in the legislative and executive branches, 

as well as in the private sector, have provided me with the managerial, leadership 

and teamwork skills necessary to succeed in the position for which I have been nominated. Further, I believe my varied experience has given me a good perspective 

both on how organizations work and how to get things accomplished. 

During my tenure as Cabinet Secretary in the Clinton Administration, I had the 

chance to work firsthand both with the NTSB and the Federal Aviation Administration. Following the ValuJet accident in 1996, I was in continuous contact with key 

NTSB officials as they proceeded with the accident investigation and issued emergency recommendations to the FAA to address the problems they uncovered. Subsequently, the TWA 800 tragedy occurred and serious questions existed regarding 

whether it was a terrorist act, leading to intensive investigations by the FBI and 

the NTSB. I served as the focal point within the White House for tracking these 

investigative efforts. As such, for a period of months, I was in close contact with 

these agencies as the investigation proceeded, and made several on-site visits to the 

hangar in New York where the destroyed aircraft was being reconstructed as pieces 

were recovered. On one of these trips I accompanied President Clinton as he met 

with investigators and consoled family members. From this work, I was able to 

learn firsthand about the Board’s investigative processes. I also developed a deep 

respect for the commitment and competence of the hard-working professionals at the 

NTSB. 

As Cabinet Secretary, I also had the opportunity to work closely with FAA officials on a variety of matters that gave me an appreciation for the types of aviation 

issues and challenges faced on an on-going basis by the FAA. For example, I was 

a primary White House contact for FAA and DOT executives as the 1996 FAA reauthorization and reform bill was being formulated by this Committee. 

I have also had the opportunity and privilege to work with the Coast Guard. At 

the request of Commandant James Loy, I served as Vice-Chair of the Coast Guard 

Roles and Missions Commission. I currently serve as a Member of the Navigation 

Council for the Coast Guard’s Deepwater Procurement Project. I believe this experience has given me a good sense of the work the Coast Guard does and would provide me with a good basis to work cooperatively with the agency on maritime investigations of mutual concern to the Coast Guard and the Board. 

Finally, my 30 years of work as an advocate and author of policies to help American workers gives me a special and important perspective for this post. I understand the importance of training workers to enhance technical skills, promote safety 

and prevent accidents. I pledge to pay particular attention to issues affecting workers if confirmed as a Member of the Board. 

If confirmed, I hope to contribute to maintaining—and even enhancing—the 

Board’s status as the preeminent accident investigation body in the world. I believe 

this is an important priority. Although it is my sense that the Board does a very 

good job on a day-to-day basis in its investigative efforts, I am interested in learning 

9

if there are ways to expedite the process of completing accident reports and issuing 

recommendations to affected transportation modes. I also am hopeful there are 

means of working with other agencies to achieve the more timely adoption of recommendations. Although the vast majority of Board recommendations are adopted 

and implemented, it sometimes takes a protracted period before the recommended 

action items reach fruition. In my view, safety will be enhanced if thoughtful, balanced recommendations are issued, adopted and implemented on a timely basis. 

This is an area where I would plan to focus, if confirmed to serve on the NTSB. 

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I would reiterate my commitment to devote my efforts 

to working as hard as I can to benefit the safety of the traveling public if I am afforded the honor and opportunity of serving on the Board. I would be pleased to respond to any questions you or Members of the Committee may have at this time. 

A. BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION

1. Name (Include any former names or nicknames used):

Kathryn O’Leary Higgins. 

Kitty Higgins. 

Kathryn O’Leary. 

Kitty O’Leary.

2. Position to which nominated: Member, National Transportation Safety Board 

(Democratic Seat). 

3. Date of Nomination: 7/27/05. 

4. Address (List current place of residence and office addresses):

Residence: information not released to the public. 

Office: None.

5. Date and Place of Birth: 10/11/47, Sioux City Iowa. 

6. Provide the name, position, and place of employment for your spouse (if married) and the names and ages of your children (including stepchildren and children 

by a previous marriage).

Spouse is deceased. 

Liam Higgins—31. 

Kevan Higgins—27.

7. List all college and graduate degrees. Provide year and school attended.

Mount Marty College 1965–1967 (no degree: transferred). 

University of Nebraska 1967–1969 (BS, Social Science and Education).

8. List all management-level jobs held and any non-managerial jobs that relate 

to the position for which you are nominated.

President, TATC Consulting. 

Vice President for Public Policy, National Trust for Historic Preservation. 

Deputy Secretary of Labor. 

Assistant to the President, and Cabinet Secretary. 

COS, Secretary of Labor. 

COS, Congressman Sander Levin. 

Democratic Staff Director, Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee.

9. List any advisory, consultative, honorary or other part-time service or positions 

with Federal, State, or local governments, other than those listed above, within the 

last five years. 

Member, Navigation Council, Coast Guard Deep Water Project. 

10. List all positions held as an officer, director, trustee, partner, proprietor, 

agent, representative, or consultant of any corporation, company, firm, partnership, 

or other business, enterprise, educational or other institution within the last five 

years. 

Board Member, University of Maryland School of Public Affairs. 

11. Please list each membership you have had during the past ten years or currently hold with any civic, social, charitable, educational, political, professional, fraternal, benevolent or religious organization, private club, or other membership organization. Include dates of membership and any positions you have held with any organization. Please note whether any such club or organization restricts membership 

on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, national origin, age or handicap.

Project Children/Washington Intern Program (1999 to present). 

Bridges to Peace Board (1999 to present). 

10

Video Action Board (2003 to present). 

Charles Carroll House of Annapolis, Vice Chair (1999 to present). 

Historic London Town Board (2000 to present). 

International Cabinet of the Baltimore Basilica (2000 to present). 

Ignatian Lay Volunteer Corps, Vice Chair (2001 to present). 

Sherwood Forest Club in Annapolis, Md.

12. Have you ever been a candidate for public office? No. 

13. Itemize all political contributions to any individual, campaign organization, 

political party, political action committee, or similar entity of $500 or more for the 

past 10 years. 

My records only go back to 1999. I did not make campaign contributions of any 

size when I was with the government. Following is a list of contributions over $500 

made since 1999:

12/07/99 Sarbanes for Senate—$500. 

03/17/00 Clinton for Senate—$1000. 

04/10/00 Clinton for Senate—$1000. 

05/29/00 Townsend for Governor—$1000. 

09/19/00 Levin for Congress—$500. 

09/19/00 DSCC—$1000. 

10/18/00 O’Keefe and Williams for Gov/Lt. Gov—$500. 

04/03/01 Ira Shapiro for Congress—$500. 

05/25/01 Mary Landrieu for Senate—$1000. 

11/15/01 Reno for Governor—$500. 

12/02/01 Shaheen for Senate—$500. 

12/27/01 Abbott for Governor—$500. 

02/13/02 Reich for Governor—$500. 

06/20/02 Herseth for Congress—$500. 

06/30/02 Abbott for Governor—$500. 

07/11/02 Bowles for Senate—$500. 

08/22/02 Abbott for Governor—$500. 

09/29/02 Herseth for Congress—$500. 

10/01/02 Bowles for Sentate—$500. 

01/22/03 Leahy for Senate—$500. 

03/17/03 Daschle for Senate—$1000. 

03/26/03 Tauscher for Congress—$500. 

03/29/03 Kerry for President—$1000. 

05/08/03 Dorgan for Senate—$500. 

05/14/03 Feinstein for Senate—$500. 

05/21/03 Daschle for Senate—$1000. 

06/25/03 McGovern for Congress—$500. 

03/17/04 Clinton for Senate—$1000. 

06/16/04 Markey for Congress—$500. 

06/22/04 Herseth for Congress—$500. 

08/01/04 Mikulski for Senate—$1000. 

09/29/04 Oklahoma Senate race—$500. 

09/30/04 Herseth for Congress—$500.

14. List all scholarships, fellowships, honorary degrees, honorary society memberships, military medals and any other special recognition for outstanding service or 

achievements.

Coast Guard Distinguished Service medal. 

FAA Distinguished Service medal. 

Mount Marty College Distinguished Alumna.

15. Please list each book, article, column, or publication you have authored, individually or with others, and any speeches that you have given on topics relevant 

to the position for which you have been nominated. Do not attach copies of these 

publications unless otherwise instructed: N/A. 

16. Please identify each instance in which you have testified orally or in writing 

before Congress in a nongovernmental capacity and specify the subject matter of 

each testimony. 

As Vice President for Public Policy for the National Trust for Historic Preservation, I testified before the Interior Appropriations Committee in support of funding 

for historic preservation, Save America’s Treasures and for the National Parks. 

I also testified, in that capacity, before the House Parks Subcommittee on land 

issues in Wyoming. 

11

B. POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

1. Describe all financial arrangements, deferred compensation agreements, and 

other continuing dealings with business associates, clients, or customers: N/A. 

2. Do you have any commitments or agreements, formal or informal, to maintain 

employment, affiliation or practice with any business, association or other organization during your appointment? If so, please explain. 

At the request of the Office of Government Ethics, I have agreed to resign from 

all of the Boards listed in question 11, with the exception of the Ignatian Lay Volunteer Corps Board. I was advised that I could continue to serve on that Board because it is affiliated with a religious institution. 

3. Indicate any investments, obligations, liabilities, or other relationships which 

could involve potential conflicts of interest in the position to which you have been 

nominated: N/A. 

4. Describe any business relationship, dealing, or financial transaction which you 

have had during the last 5 years, whether for yourself, on behalf of a client, or acting as an agent, that could in any way constitute or result in a possible conflict of 

interest in the position to which you have been nominated: N/A. 

5. Describe any activity during the past 5 years in which you have been engaged 

for the purpose of directly or indirectly influencing the passage, defeat, or modification of any legislation or affecting the administration and execution of law or public 

policy. 

As Vice President for Public Policy with the National Trust for Historic Preservation, we agreed with the Administration when we could on matters affecting preservation policy and funding and disagreed when we needed to. For example, we did 

not support the Administration’s position on amending section 4f of the Highway 

bill. Section 4f is the strongest and most important historic preservation policy in 

federal law. We were concerned that changes proposed by the Administration would 

gut these important protections. We also advocated increased funding for Save 

America’s Treasures and for the National Parks. 

6. Explain how you will resolve any potential conflict of interest, including any 

that may be disclosed by your responses to the above items: N/A. 

C. LEGAL MATTERS

1. Have you ever been disciplined or cited for a breach of ethics by, or been the 

subject of a complaint to any court, administrative agency, professional association, 

disciplinary committee, or other professional group? No. 

2. Have you ever been investigated, arrested, charged, or held by any Federal, 

State, or other law enforcement authority of any Federal, State, county, or municipal entity, other than for a minor traffic offense? No. 

3. Have you or any business of which you are or were an officer ever been involved as a party in an administrative agency proceeding or civil litigation? No. 

4. Have you ever been convicted (including pleas of guilty or nolo contendere ) of 

any criminal violation other than a minor traffic offense? No. 

5. Please advise the Committee of any additional information, favorable or unfavorable, which you feel should be disclosed in connection with your nomination. 

I don’t believe there is anything additional to report. 

6. Have you ever been accused, formally or informally, of sexual harassment or 

discrimination on the basis of sex, race, religion or any other basis? No. 

D. RELATIONSHIP WITH COMMITTEE

1. Will you ensure that your department/agency complies with deadlines for information set by congressional committees? Yes. 

2. Will you ensure that your department/agency does whatever it can to protect 

congressional witnesses and whistle blowers from reprisal for their testimony and 

disclosures? Yes. 

3. Will you cooperate in providing the Committee with requested witnesses, including technical experts and career employees, with firsthand knowledge of matters 

of interest to the Committee? Yes. 

4. Are you willing to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of 

the Congress on such occasions as you may be reasonably requested to do so? Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What are your opinions about the relationship of 

the Board to information security? 

Ms. HIGGINS. I did read the IG report and was very concerned, 

obviously, that there is this ability to breach the security system 

12

and access sensitive information collected by the Board. I think the 

Board’s reputation is as strong as it is because it has, over the 

years, been able to gather all the facts, and to protect the information until the facts lead to the resolution of the investigation. When 

I was at the Labor Department, we put a great priority on improving the security of our technology systems, and I know it has been 

a priority for OMB, in our Administration, also for this administration. I will work with the Chairman and Vice Chairman and others—to make sure that those issues get the attention they deserve. 

It will undermine the credibility of the Board if those issues cannot 

be resolved. 

I think there is a corrective action plan that has been proposed. 

In looking at the response to the IG report, I think the agency concurs that there are significant problems here. It is unfortunate that 

more action has not been taken to date, but I am sure it will be 

a priority. It already is a priority. It will certainly be a priority for 

me. 

The CHAIRMAN. I apologize to everyone in the room about the 

heat. Obviously, the person maintaining that heat is not an Alaskan. 

[Laughter.] 

The CHAIRMAN. We are a little disturbed about this heat. 

Mr. Rosenker, you know I have had a personal experience with 

NTSB, an accident that I survived, and then also an Alaska Airlines plane I was supposed to be on and missed the connection and 

it crashed. And then my closest friend was on the one that turned 

upside down on Alaska Airlines and went into the Pacific Ocean off 

Point Waneemi. 

At the time, I got the impression that there was sort of a financial strain on NTSB in the last investigation. It does take a lot of 

money quickly to gather up facts on an investigation of tragedies 

such as the one in California. 

Are you diverting money away from the core missions of investigating accidents and making safety recommendations to do other 

things that the NTSB wants to do right now? 

Mr. ROSENKER. No, sir, I would not agree with that. 

Sir, before I go into further answers, with your permission could 

I offer an opening statement, which perhaps may answer some of 

the questions that you may have already? 

The CHAIRMAN. A short one, yes. 

STATEMENT OF MARK V. ROSENKER, NOMINEE TO BE A

MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY 

BOARD 

Mr. ROSENKER. Yes, sir I will do that. 

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Co-Chairman, distinguished 

Members of our Committee. I am pleased and honored to appear 

before you today as you consider confirmation of my nomination as 

a Member of the National Transportation Safety Board for a second 

term. I am grateful to President Bush for this nomination and particularly for his confidence in my ability to continue to serve our 

Nation in this unique and critically important position. 

I would also like to thank Senator George Allen from my home 

State of Virginia for his generous and flattering remarks. 

13

As the Senator also said, my wife is behind me. I also have a lot 

of friends, colleagues, and former members and current members 

that are sitting in support of this nomination. 

For nearly 3 years, I have been privileged to serve as a Member, 

Vice Chairman, and most recently Acting Chairman of this small 

but widely known and well-respected federal agency. 

I have looked forward to this confirmation hearing since the announcement of my nomination, not only so that I can answer your 

questions, but to be able to share with the Committee my pride and 

enthusiasm for the NTSB. For nearly 4 decades, the NTSB has 

been at the forefront of transportation safety issues, the protector, 

if you will, of America’s vital transportation system. The Board is 

not only our Nation’s premier accident investigation agency, but 

also enjoys a well-earned reputation as the most effective and authoritative independent safety body in the world. 

Simply stated, sir, the men and women who make up the NTSB 

are the best in the business. 

I would also like to recognize my fellow Board Members, past 

and present, with whom I have been privileged to serve during my 

tenure in office. All of these men and women—Democrat, Republican, and Independent—have brought a unique and valuable perspective to the decisionmaking process that is our responsibility. 

Whether determining the probable cause of an accident, recommending safety improvements, or deciding on federal enforcement 

actions, we routinely joined together with one objective in mind, 

and that is to raise the standard of safety within our Nation’s 

transportation community. If confirmed to a second term, I commit 

to you and the American people that I will continue to make decisions and cast votes in that same spirit. 

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Co–Chairman, distinguished Members of the 

Committee, we all agree that the transportation industry is crucial 

to our economy. The independent safety board’s primary and most 

significant role is to help ensure the public’s confidence in the safety of this vital sector of our society. 

What I have seen and what I have learned as a Member of the 

NTSB is that the dedicated men and women who make up our Nation’s transportation community, aviation, rail, marine, highway, 

and pipeline—the management, labor, owners, operators, and manufacturers, are all working closely together to make a safe industry 

even safer. 

I look forward, sir, to answering your questions. 

[The prepared statement and biographical information of Mr. 

Rosenker follow:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MARK V. ROSENKER, NOMINEE TO BE A MEMBER OF THE

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD

Good morning. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Co-Chairman, distinguished Members of the 

Committee. I am pleased and honored to appear before you today as you consider 

confirmation of my nomination as a Member of the National Transportation Safety 

Board for a second term. I am grateful to President Bush for this nomination and 

particularly for his confidence in my ability to continue to serve our Nation in this 

unique and critically important position. 

I would also like to thank Senator George Allen from my home State of Virginia 

for his kind introduction and support. 

With your permission Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce my wife, Heather, 

who is here with me this morning. 

14

For nearly three years, I have been privileged to serve as a Member, Vice Chairman and most recently Acting Chairman of this small, but widely known and wellrespected federal agency. 

I have looked forward to this confirmation hearing since the announcement of my 

nomination. Not only so that I can answer your questions, but also to be able to 

share with the Committee my pride in and enthusiasm for the National Transportation Safety Board. For nearly four decades, the NTSB has been at the forefront 

of transportation safety issues, the protector, if you will, of America’s vital transportation system. The NTSB is not only our Nation’s premier accident investigation 

agency, but also enjoys a well-earned reputation as the most effective and authoritative independent safety body in the world. 

Simply stated, the men and women who make up the NTSB are the ‘‘best in the 

business.’’

I would also like to recognize my fellow Board Members, past and present, with 

whom I’ve been privileged to serve during my tenure in office. All of these men and 

women—Democrat, Republican and Independent—have brought a unique and valuable perspective to the decision making process that is our responsibility. 

Whether determining the probable cause of an accident, recommending safety improvements, or deciding on federal enforcement actions, we routinely joined together 

with one objective in mind, to raise the standard of safety within our Nation’s transportation community. 

If confirmed to a second term, I commit to you and the American people that I 

will continue to make decisions and cast votes in that same spirit. 

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Co-Chairman, distinguished Members of the Committee, we 

all agree that the transportation industry is crucial to our economy, and the independent Safety Board’s primary and most significant role is to help ensure the 

public’s confidence in the safety of this vital sector of our society. 

What I have seen and learned as a Member of the NTSB, is that the dedicated 

men and women who make up our Nation’s transportation community—aviation, 

rail, marine, highway and pipeline—the management, labor, owners, operators, and 

manufacturers, are all working closely with us to make a safe industry even safer. 

I remain energized by the unique opportunity, if confirmed, of continuing to be 

a part of the strong and diverse leadership of this highly competent team of safety 

professionals and advocates. I am also very proud of the contributions I have made 

toward improving transportation safety during my tenure as a Member of the 

Board. 

I look forward to answering your questions. 

A. BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION

1. Name (Include any former names or nicknames used): Mark Victor Rosenker. 

2. Position to which nominated: Member, National Transportation Safety Board. 

3. Date of Nomination: April 4, 2005. 

4. Address (List current place of residence and office addresses):

Residence: information not released to the public.

Office: NTSB, 490 L’Enfant Plaza East, SW., Washington, DC 20594.

5. Date and Place of Birth: 12/08/46, Baltimore, MD. 

6. Provide the name, position, and place of employment for your spouse (if married) and the names and ages of your children (including stepchildren and children 

by a previous marriage).

Heather Beldon Rosenker, 

Senior Vice President, 

Fleishman-Hillard Public Relations.

No children.

7. List all college and graduate degrees. Provide year and school attended.

Baltimore Community College 1965–1966. 

University of Maryland 1966–1969, BA Communications. 

University of Maryland, University College, Graduate Study 1970–1971. 

Department of Defense Information School, Graduate 1969. 

Air Command and Staff College, Extension Course Institute, Graduate, 1983–

1985. 

Air War College, Associate Studies Program, Graduate, 1988–1990.

8. List all management-level jobs held and any nonmanagerial jobs that relate to 

the position for which you are nominated.

15

Member, Vice Chairman and Acting Chairman, 

National Transportation Safety Board, March 2003–present.

United States Air Force and Air Force Reserve, Major General, Mobilization Assistant to the Commander, Air Force Reserve Command, (current rank and assignment) June 1969–present.

Department of Transportation, Transportation Security Administration, Program Manager, Special Projects Office, November 2002–March 2003.

The White House, Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of the White 

House Military Office, January 2001–November 2002.

United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS), Assistant Executive Director and 

Managing Director of the Washington, D.C. Office. November 1999– January 

2001.

Electronic Industries Alliance, aka (Electronic Industries Association) Corporate 

Officer and Vice President, Public Affairs, February 1977–October 1999.

Motorized Bicycle Association, aka (American Moped Association), Director of 

Communications, January 1975– January 1976.

Daniel J. Edelman Public Relations, Account Executive, September 1973–January 1975. Represented American Safety Belt Council, Motorcycle Safety Foundation, and the Safety Helmet Council of America.

9. List any advisory, consultative, honorary or other part-time service or positions 

with Federal, State, or local governments, other than those listed above, within the 

last five years: None. 

10. List all positions held as an officer, director, trustee, partner, proprietor, 

agent, representative, or consultant of any corporation, company, firm, partnership, 

or other business, enterprise, educational or other institution within the last five 

years.

United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS)—Assistant Executive Director for 

External Affairs and Managing Director, Washington, D.C. office.

Boat Slip Rental Property—50 percent interest; sold January 2002.

Brat Pack Investment Club—20 percent interest. Sole holding 1,295 shares of 

ADC Telecommunications.

11. Please list each membership you have had during the past ten years or currently hold with any civic, social, charitable, educational, political, professional, fraternal, benevolent or religious organization, private club, or other membership organization. Include dates of membership and any positions you have held with any organization. Please note whether any such club or organization restricts membership 

on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, national origin, age or handicap.

Army Navy Club, Washington, D.C.—1999–present. 

Andrews AFB Officers Club, Andrews AFB, MD—1969–present. 

Capitol Hill Club—1973–2000. 

Bryce Resort, Basye, VA—1986–present. 

Military Order of the Carabao—2001–present. 

Aero Club, Board Member—2005–present.

12. Have you ever been a candidate for public office? If so, indicate whether any 

campaign has any outstanding debt, the amount, and whether you are personally 

liable for that debt: No. 

13. Itemize all political contributions to any individual, campaign organization, 

political party, political action committee, or similar entity of $500 or more for the 

past 10 years.

2004—Bush-Cheney Campaign—$2,000. 

2000—Darrell Issa for Congress—$500.

14. List all scholarships, fellowships, honorary degrees, honorary society memberships, military medals and any other special recognition for outstanding service or 

achievements. 

University of Maryland Centennial Distinguished Graduate, 2001; American Battle Monuments Commission Distinguished Service Medal; USAF Distinguished 

Service Medal; Legion of Merit, Meritorious Service Medal (1 oak leaf cluster) USAF 

Commendation Medal; Department of Defense Achievement Medal; USAF Achievement Medal (1 oak leaf cluster). 

15. Please list each book, article, column, or publication you have authored, individually or with others, and any speeches that you have given on topics relevant 

16

to the position for which you have been nominated. Do not attach copies of these 

publications unless otherwise instructed. 

All speeches that I have given relevant to transportation safety may be viewed 

on the NTSB website. 

16. Please identify each instance in which you have testified orally or in writing 

before Congress in a non-governmental capacity and specify the subject matter of 

each testimony: None. 

B. POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

1. Describe all financial arrangements, deferred compensation agreements, and 

other continuing dealings with business associates, clients, or customers: None. 

2. Do you have any commitments or agreements, formal or informal, to maintain 

employment, affiliation or practice with any business, association or other organization during your appointment? No. 

3. Indicate any investments, obligations, liabilities, or other relationships which 

could involve potential conflicts of interest in the position to which you have been 

nominated: None. 

4. Describe any business relationship, dealing, or financial transaction which you 

have had during the last 5 years, whether for yourself, on behalf of a client, or acting as an agent, that could in any way constitute or result in a possible conflict of 

interest in the position to which you have been nominated: None. 

5. Describe any activity during the past 5 years in which you have been engaged 

for the purpose of directly or indirectly influencing the passage, defeat, or modification of any legislation or affecting the administration and execution of law or public 

policy. 

During my appointment as a Member of the NTSB, I have been a strong transportation safety advocate and on numerous occasions invited to testify before state legislatures, particularly on issues of highway and recreational boating safety. In addition, the Board has made a significant number of recommendations to federal agencies, state and local governments, organizations, operators and manufacturers concerning regulations or safety issues dealing with various modes of transportation. 

During my career as chief spokesman for the Electronic Industries Alliance, representing the U.S. electronics industry, and the United Network for Organ Sharing, 

UNOS, (the national organ transplant network), I have made numerous statements 

and answered a myriad of media queries on a host of issues having to do with the 

laws, regulations, and policies of those two diverse communities. Some of the major 

issues I spoke out in support of included: NAFTA, Making Permanent the R&D Tax 

Credit, Improvement of Export Controls, Rewrite of Circular A76, privatization and 

outsourcing, federal rules pertaining to Organ Donation and Allocation. My role was 

not that of a registered lobbyist. 

6. Explain how you will resolve any potential conflict of interest, including any 

that may be disclosed by your responses to the above items. 

As a senior officer in the Air Force Reserve, if confirmed, I will continue to recuse 

myself from any investigation involving an USAF aircraft unless the Chairman 

found my participation necessary and appropriate. I believe there are no other 

issues that would constitute a conflict of interest. 

C. LEGAL MATTERS

1. Have you ever been disciplined or cited for a breach of ethics by, or been the 

subject of a complaint to any court, administrative agency, professional association, 

disciplinary committee, or other professional group? No. 

2. Have you ever been investigated, arrested, charged, or held by any Federal, 

State, or other law enforcement authority of any Federal, State, county, or municipal entity, other than for a minor traffic offense? If so, please explain. 

Detained in 1965 at the age of 18, along with two friends, in Atlantic City NJ, 

malicious mischief, charges dismissed. Detained in 1966 at the age of 19, along with 

one friend, in Baltimore, MD, possession of beer below age of 21, charges dismissed. 

3. Have you or any business of which you are or were an officer ever been involved as a party in an administrative agency proceeding or civil litigation? If so, 

please explain. 

During my employment as an officer of EIA, the Association was involved in routine civil litigation. I was never a party, nor a witness in any of those proceedings. 

4. Have you ever been convicted (including pleas of guilty or nolo contendere ) of 

any criminal violation other than a minor traffic offense? No. 

5. Please advise the Committee of any additional information, favorable or unfavorable, which you feel should be disclosed in connection with your nomination: 

None. 

17

6. Have you ever been accused, formally or informally, of sexual harassment or 

discrimination on the basis of sex, race, religion or any other basis? No. 

D. RELATIONSHIP WITH COMMITTEE

1. Will you ensure that your department/agency complies with deadlines for information set by congressional committees? Yes. 

2. Will you ensure that your department/agency does whatever it can to protect 

congressional witnesses and whistle blowers from reprisal for their testimony and 

disclosures? Yes. 

3. Will you cooperate in providing the Committee with requested witnesses, including technical experts and career employees, with firsthand knowledge of matters 

of interest to the Committee? Yes. 

4. Are you willing to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of 

the Congress on such occasions as you may be reasonably requested to do so? Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Now answer my question. I am told 

you are diverting money away from investigating accidents to support other functions. I am told that the training academy is losing 

money and that you have cited budgetary pressure for not investigating every fatal accident. Is that true? 

Mr. ROSENKER. Sir, we look at every single general aviation accident by law. We take a look at virtually every one of the railroad 

accidents that has some fatality or significant damage. In marine, 

we look at the major catastrophic marine accidents as an agreedto by our Coast Guard MOU. In highway, of course, we cannot look 

at the 43,000 accidents that occur that result in fatalities. And in 

pipeline, we look at every one of the pipeline accidents that occurs 

in a fatality. 

Our academy was created in concept in the year 2000, well before this Administration came to work in this Board. Whether I 

would have made a decision to create this academy or not I think 

is not the issue. The issue is what are we doing at this academy 

to further the investigation capability of the NTSB and to enhance 

safety in all modes of transportation. 

There is a basic funding that was created, I believe, as part of 

the opportunity to put together the academy, and that was we were 

housing flight TWA 800, which was the 747 that blew up, as it left 

in 1996 on its way from JFK to Paris. That was the most expensive 

accident that the NTSB has ever investigated, well over $40 million. As you may recall, back at that time, there was a question of 

really what happened. And it took us a good deal of time. There 

were two actual investigations going on simultaneously: one with 

the FBI and one with the NTSB. There was belief at one point that 

it could have been a bomb that exploded that brought down that 

747 and killed 230 passengers. It turned out that it was not. It 

turned out that it was a center wing fuel tank explosion. 

The CHAIRMAN. I do not really want a lecture. I want an answer 

to the question. Are you diverting money from your accident funds 

for other purposes? 

Mr. ROSENKER. The approximate budget is around $3.5 million 

to operate the academy. $2.5 million comes from an increase in our 

appropriation that was given by Congress to support the facility 

and house the 747 at the academy. There is about $700,000 that 

comes in income from the courses. So there is a shortfall of approximately $750,000 to $800,000 that must be looked at. But we, 

in fact, are teaching courses out there that we have been teaching 

18

for years. The basic investigation course is being taught. We were 

teaching that well before there was an academy. 

We are also using that academy for three purposes: one a COOP 

site. We are also renting that COOP site to other federal agencies, 

and I would be able to provide that list to you. Second, housing, 

our regional office in the Ashburn Academy Facility. And third, we 

have created an enhanced laboratory capability that we needed 

sorely that we could not have done in our Washington headquarters. So part of that shortfall is, in fact, additional infrastructure that we would be needing anyway, sir. 

But as far as are we taking resources away from our investigators, I do not believe we are doing that, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, let me do this. I want to request, on behalf 

of the Committee, that you provide this Committee with updates 

on your actions taken to address the Inspector General’s audits 

every 60 days until that is complete. 

Mr. ROSENKER. Yes, sir, we will do that. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Dale, I am sorry to have delayed to get to 

you. I was waiting for the Senator from Texas who wanted to introduce you, and we just received word that she is on a plane from 

Texas, which was delayed in coming. So I do want to recognize that 

you are here and that we have a series of questions for you. 

As I indicated in my opening statement, I was sort of intrigued 

by the new vision of the President with regard to changes at 

NASA. Can you tell us really what you see your role will be in that 

process of turning NASA back toward deep space exploration? 

Ms. DALE. Yes, sir. My role will be assisting the administrator 

on overall leadership policy direction and planning and management of the agency. 

In terms of the vision for space exploration, one of the things 

that Mike Griffin wanted was a complete skill set at the top of 

NASA within the senior leadership team. He already has an associate administrator who has long-term agency experience. He himself has great technical experience, as you know, in terms of being 

inside the agency and also working long-term in the space community, including being the head of In–Q–Tel. He has great leadership 

capabilities. What he was seeking in me was agency management 

experience, political and policymaking expertise, as well as a comprehensive knowledge of NASA and the aerospace community. 

So my roles and priorities, as I go into NASA, will be helping to 

implement the vision for space exploration, continuing on with 

space operations, the International Space Station and the Space 

Shuttle, and making sure that there is a healthy overall balanced 

program with science and aeronautics. And then some of my first 

priorities going into the agency, if I am confirmed, would be the 

agency’s financial management system and also work force issues. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

Ms. Higgins and Ms. Dale, did you have opening statements? We 

do not usually have opening statements on nominees, but if you 

have one, we would be glad to listen to them. 

Ms. HIGGINS. Senator, I did. You have it for the record, and I 

think enough has been said. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Ms. Dale? 

19

Ms. DALE. I do have an opening statement, sir, if you would like. 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you wish to acknowledge anyone present, Ms. 

Higgins? 

Ms. HIGGINS. My daughter-in-law is here, Kate Higgins, and a 

number of friends and colleagues I have worked with over the 

years. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Dale? 

Ms. DALE. My family members, my significant other, Mike 

Fagan, is here, as well as my father, John Dale. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

Would you like to read your statement? 

Ms. DALE. If you so desire, sir. 

The CHAIRMAN. I think we would be happy to listen to it, yes. 

STATEMENT OF SHANA LEIGH DALE, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY 

ADMINISTRATOR OF NASA 

Ms. DALE. Mr. Chairman, Co-Chairman Inouye, and Members of 

the Committee, I am honored to be President Bush’s nominee to be 

the Deputy Administrator of NASA. I would like to thank Mike 

Griffin for recommending me to be his deputy, and I would like to 

thank President Bush for nominating me to this position. I am honored and excited to be considered to serve at NASA. 

I believe that NASA is entering a period of great promise, excitement, and opportunity. One key reason for this is the President’s 

Vision for Space Exploration, a bold and energizing mission for 

NASA’s future. At the same time, it has been designed specifically 

to be affordable and sustainable, with the resilience to survive 

budgetary fluctuations that may occur in the future. This is a critical point because this space exploration initiative spans decades 

into the future. Ultimately the quest is to extend human exploration across the solar system. 

If confirmed as Deputy Administrator, I am committed to working with Administrator Griffin, the people of NASA, Congress, the 

White House, and the private sector to lay the foundation ultimately necessary to achieve the Vision for Space Exploration. 

In particular, I look forward to working with the aerospace work 

force because I understand and value their unique skills and expertise, as well as their contribution to this Nation’s economic competitiveness. 

My written statement goes on to discuss the very important missions of the International Space Station, the Space Shuttle, science 

and aeronautics, as well as the need for a healthy overall program 

within NASA. 

Mr. Chairman, I have long been a supporter of this Nation’s 

aerospace efforts, and if confirmed, I look forward to being a part 

of the team that leads NASA into the future. I also look forward 

to being a very strong advocate for NASA. 

My professional background has positioned me to provide a 

unique fit with NASA’s senior leadership. The breadth and the 

depth of my experience comes from working in the executive 

branch, legislative branch, and academia for the past 15 years. I 

have on-the-ground knowledge of the inner workings of the White 

House and Congress, and I understand the complexities and challenges of how agencies interact. This extensive political and policyVerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:32 Mar 14, 2006 Jkt 026233 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 S:\WPSHR\GPO\DOCS\26233.TXT JACK PsN: JACKF
20

making expertise will be crucial to successfully navigating the challenging times that lie ahead for NASA. 

Further, I developed a comprehensive knowledge of NASA and 

the aerospace community during my tenure as Staff Director of the 

House Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee in the 1990s. Legislative oversight of NASA’s budget, policies, and programs provided 

me with an in-depth understanding of and sensitivity for the issues 

facing the agency. 

If confirmed, my fundamental areas of expertise, combined with 

the Administrator’s technical expertise and leadership and the Associate Administrator’s long-term agency experience, will produce a 

formidable and complete skill set within the senior team that leads 

NASA into the future. 

These are exciting and challenging times at NASA, and I want 

to help the agency build even stronger relationships with Congress, 

the White House, and the American people. If confirmed, I look forward to working in an environment of accomplishment and 

achievement at NASA, a place where significant scientific and technological breakthroughs are everyday occurrences. I am excited 

about the opportunity to become a part of the team at NASA, and 

I look forward to developing a very strong working relationship 

with this Committee. 

I am honored to be nominated and I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today, sir. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement and biographical information of Ms. 

Dale follow:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SHANA LEIGH DALE, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY

ADMINISTRATOR OF NASA 

Mr. Chairman, Co-Chairman Inouye, and Members of the Committee, I am honored to appear before you today as President Bush’s nominee to be the Deputy Administrator of NASA. I would like to thank Mike Griffin for recommending me to 

be his Deputy and I would like to thank President Bush for nominating me for this 

position. 

I believe that NASA is entering a period of great promise, excitement, and opportunity. One key reason for this is the President’s Vision for Space Exploration—a 

bold and energizing mission for NASA’s future. 

In 2004, the President said ‘‘We have undertaken space travel because the desire 

to explore and understand is part of our character.’’ He went on to say we are 

‘‘drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once drawn into unknown lands 

and across the open sea. We choose to explore space because doing so improves our 

lives, and lifts our national spirit.’’

The President’s Vision for Space Exploration is a direct reflection of these fundamental goals and desires. At the same time, it has been designed specifically to be 

sustainable and affordable, with the resilience to survive budgetary fluctuations 

that may occur in the future. This is a critical point because this space exploration 

initiative will span decades into the future. Ultimately, the quest is to extend 

human exploration across the Solar System. 

If confirmed as Deputy Administrator, I am committed to working with Administrator Griffin, the people of NASA, Congress, the White House, and the private sector to lay the foundation necessary to ultimately achieve the Vision for Space Exploration. 

When Americans think of human space exploration today, they think first of the 

Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. 

The Space Shuttle has provided technological advances and knowledge that will 

be especially useful for the Exploration Vision. Administrator Griffin has described 

the Space Shuttle as an amazing vehicle, designed by this Nation’s most brilliant 

aerospace engineers. 

Over the last five years, the U.S. and its international partners have built a 

400,000 pound space station in low Earth orbit which enables critically important 

21

research. The International Space Station enables research on the effects of space 

on human health that is important for longer term space travel beyond low Earth 

orbit. 

Another important goal is achieving a balanced overall program of science, aeronautics, exploration, and space operations. It is my belief that it is possible, and in 

fact, very important, to maintain healthy programs in science and aeronautics. As 

Mike Griffin has stated, even in the Apollo era when the race was on to get to the 

Moon, NASA was able to execute dozens of science missions and maintain a robust 

program of aeronautics development. 

NASA’s Science Directorate seeks to understand the origins, evolution, and destiny of the universe and to understand the nature of the unique phenomena that 

shape it. The Directorate seeks to understand the Sun and Earth, the nature of life 

in the universe, what kinds of life may exist beyond Earth, and the nature of the 

solar system—scientifically and in preparation for human exploration. Scientific discoveries from missions such as the Hubble Space Telescope, Voyager, Aqua, and the 

two Mars rovers further the fundamental missions of NASA and spark the imagination of people around the world. 

In aeronautics, NASA is currently re-shaping the program to focus in three important areas. First, mastery of core competencies in subsonic, supersonic, and 

hypersonic flight; second, research in aviation safety that takes advantage of the 

agency’s unique capabilities; and third, partnership with the FAA and other agencies to directly address the needs of the Next Generation Air Transportation System. NASA also is moving in the direction of reinvesting in in-house expertise, establishing a program to ensure that essential wind tunnel facilities are maintained, 

and building strong partnerships with the Defense Department, industry, and academia. 

Mr. Chairman, I am excited for the opportunity to serve the United States’ space 

program. I have long been a supporter of our Nation’s aerospace efforts and, if confirmed, look forward to becoming an advocate for NASA in the aerospace community, within the Executive Branch, before the U.S. Congress, and to the American 

public. 

The breadth and the depth of my experience for the position of Deputy Administrator come from working in the Legislative branch, the Executive branch, and academia for the past 15 years. My experience for this position is in 3 fundamental 

areas: (1) agency management; (2) policymaking; and (3) a comprehensive knowledge of NASA and the aerospace community.

Let me provide some specifics: 

My extensive agency management experience comes from my years at the Office 

of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP). I came to the agency at a time when it 

had a skeleton staff and had very few standard operating procedures. My task was 

to build the agency from the ground up. I focused on 3 key elements: recruiting 

skilled staff, developing operating procedures, and creating trusted working relationships. 

Soon after arriving at OSTP, I developed a plan for determining the critical skill 

sets needed in the agency and mapping those against existing expertise. I worked 

to recruit highly qualified scientists and engineers and senior staff for communications, legislative affairs, budget, financial management, security and human resources. Second, I turned my attention to developing operating procedures for the entire 

agency which established an environment for efficient and effective management of 

day-to-day operations and decision-making processes. 

Third, consistent with the approach I have taken throughout my public service, 

I developed trusted working relationships within OSTP, with senior staff in other 

offices of the Executive Office of the President, and with officials in the federal 

agencies, and Congress, the private sector and the international community. 

My extensive political and policymaking experience comes from working for the 

past 15 years in Washington D.C. I have on-the-ground experience with the inner 

workings of the White House and Congress, and understand the complexities and 

challenges of how agencies interact and how to successfully accomplish program and 

policy objectives. 

While serving as Chief of Staff and General Counsel at the Office of Science and 

Technology Policy, I had the additional responsibility of leading the homeland and 

national security staff. In the early days after 9/11, this included leading and executing homeland security technical operations—a highly unusual function for a policy office. These political and policymaking skills will be crucial to helping NASA 

successfully navigate the challenging times ahead. 

The third element of my experience for this position is due to my role as Staff 

Director of the House Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee in the 1990s. During 

22

that tenure, I developed a comprehensive knowledge of NASA and the aerospace 

community. Legislative oversight of NASA’s budget, policies, and programs provided 

me an in-depth understanding of, and sensitivity for, the issues facing the agency. 

If confirmed, my fundamental areas of expertise combined with the Administrator’s technical expertise and leadership and the Associate Administrator’s long-term 

agency experience will produce a powerful and complete skill set within the senior 

team to lead NASA into the future. 

These are exciting and challenging times for NASA and I want to help the agency 

build even stronger relationships with Congress, the White House, and the American people. If confirmed, I look forward to working in an environment of accomplishment and achievement at NASA, a place where significant scientific and technological breakthroughs are everyday occurrences. I am honored to be nominated 

and I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. 

Mr. Chairman, I am happy to answer questions you or the rest of the Committee 

may have. 

A. BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION

1. Name (Include any former names or nicknames used): Shana Leigh Dale. 

2. Position to which nominated: Deputy Administrator, National Aeronautics and 

Space Administration. 

3. Date of Nomination: September 13, 2005. 

4. Address (List current place of residence and office addresses):

Residence: information not released to the public. 

Office: New Executive Office Building, Washington, DC 20502.

5. Date and Place of Birth: 9/16/1964, Decatur, GA. 

6. Provide the name, position, and place of employment for your spouse (if married) and the names and ages of your children (including stepchildren and children 

by a previous marriage). Not applicable. 

7. List all college and graduate degrees. Provide year and school attended.

1989, JD, California Western School of Law, San Diego, California. 

1986, BS, University of Tulsa, Tulsa, Oklahoma.

8. List all management-level jobs held and any non-managerial jobs that relate 

to the position for which you are nominated.

5/2001–present, Office of Science and Technology Policy, Executive Office of the 

President (General Counsel, Chief of Staff and General Counsel, Deputy Director for Homeland and National Security).

3/2000–5/2001, University of Texas System, Assistant Vice Chancellor.

3/1991–3/2000, Science Committee, U.S. House of Representatives (Republican 

Counsel to Science Subcommittee and then Space Subcommittee; Staff Director 

of Space & Aeronautics Subcommittee).

9. List any advisory, consultative, honorary or other part-time service or positions 

with Federal, State, or local governments, other than those listed above, within the 

last five years: None. 

10. List all positions held as an officer, director, trustee, partner, proprietor, 

agent, representative, or consultant of any corporation, company, firm, partnership, 

or other business, enterprise, educational or other institution within the last five 

years.

Assistant Vice Chancellor, University of Texas System, 3/2000–5/2001. 

Women in Aerospace, Board Member, 1997–2000.

11. Please list each membership you have had during the past ten years or currently hold with any civic, social, charitable, educational, political, professional, fraternal, benevolent or religious organization, private club, or other membership organization. Include dates of membership and any positions you have held with any organization. Please note whether any such club or organization restricts membership 

on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, national origin, age or handicap.

Women in Aerospace, Board Member, 1997–2000. 

Member, California State Bar, 1990–present. 

Member, District of Columbia Bar, 1991–present.

12. Have you ever been a candidate for public office? If so, indicate whether any 

campaign has any outstanding debt, the amount, and whether you are personally 

liable for that debt: No. 

23

13. Itemize all political contributions to any individual, campaign organization, political party, political action committee, or similar entity of $500 or more for the 

past 10 years. 7/2004, $2000 Bush-Cheney 2004. 

14. List all scholarships, fellowships, honorary degrees, honorary society memberships, military medals and any other special recognition for outstanding service or 

achievements.

Merit Scholar, California Western School of Law. 

Outstanding WIA Emeritus Award, Women in Aerospace.

15. Please list each book, article, column, or publication you have authored, individually or with others, and any speeches that you have given on topics relevant 

to the position for which you have been nominated. Do not attach copies of these 

publications unless otherwise instructed.

Articles

1989, Remote Sensing Satellites: Privacy and National Security Concerns Clash 

with Media’s Right of Free Speech, Al Simon Center for Telecommunications 

Law.

Speeches

1995, Women in Aerospace. 

1998, U.S. Space Foundation, National Space Symposium. 

3/2001, National Academy of Sciences.

16, Please identify each instance in which you have testified orally or in writing 

before Congress in a non-governmental capacity and specify the subject matter of 

each testimony: None. 

B. POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

1. Describe all financial arrangements, deferred compensation agreements, and 

other continuing dealings with business associates, clients, or customers: University 

of Texas Retirement Savings Account. 

2. Do you have any commitments or agreements, formal or informal, to maintain 

employment, affiliation or practice with any business, association or other organization during your appointment? No. 

3. Indicate any investments, obligations, liabilities, or other relationships which 

could involve potential conflicts of interest in the position to which you have been 

nominated: None known. 

4. Describe any business relationship, dealing, or financial transaction which you 

have had during the last 5 years, whether for yourself, on behalf of a client, or acting as an agent, that could in any way constitute or result in a possible conflict of 

interest in the position to which you have been nominated: None. 

5. Describe any activity during the past 5 years in which you have been engaged 

for the purpose of directly or indirectly influencing the passage, defeat, or modification of any legislation or affecting the administration and execution of law or public 

policy: University of Texas System, Assistant Vice Chancellor—tracked legislation 

that affected the University of Texas System. 

6. Explain how you will resolve any potential conflict of interest, including any 

that may be disclosed by your responses to the above items: Should there be a conflict of interest, I would divest that financial interest. 

C. LEGAL MATTERS

1. Have you ever been disciplined or cited for a breach of ethics by, or been the 

subject of a complaint to any court, administrative agency, professional association, 

disciplinary committee, or other professional group? If so, please explain: Civil lawsuit filed in San Diego Small Claims Court in September 1988 by David Ebner citing breach of oral contract that he could live in the same apartment with me for 

the summer of 1988. Mr. Ebner dropped the lawsuit. 

2. Have you ever been investigated, arrested, charged, or held by any Federal, 

State, or other law enforcement authority of any Federal, State, county, or municipal entity, other than for a minor traffic offense? No. 

3. Have you or any business of which you are or were an officer ever been involved as a party in an administrative agency proceeding or civil litigation? No. 

4. Have you ever been convicted (including pleas of guilty or nolo contendere ) of 

any criminal violation other than a minor traffic offense? No. 

5. Please advise the Committee of any additional information, favorable or unfavorable, which you feel should be disclosed in connection with your nomination: I 

do not possess any additional favorable or unfavorable information to be disclosed 

in connection with my nomination. 

24

6. Have you ever been accused, formally or informally, of sexual harassment or 

discrimination on the basis of sex, race, religion or any other basis? No. 

D. RELATIONSHIP WITH COMMITTEE

1. Will you ensure that your department/agency complies with deadlines for information set by congressional committees? Yes. 

2. Will you ensure that your department/agency does whatever it can to protect 

congressional witnesses and whistle blowers from reprisal for their testimony and 

disclosures? Yes. 

3. Will you cooperate in providing the Committee with requested witnesses, including technical experts and career employees, with firsthand knowledge of matters 

of interest to the Committee? Yes. 

4. Are you willing to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of 

the Congress on such occasions as you may be reasonably requested to do so? Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

I have been called to a leadership meeting. The Co-Chairman 

will complete this hearing. 

Senator INOUYE. [presiding] Thank you very much, Ms. Dale. As 

the Chairman indicated, you have been highly recommended by 

Mr. Griffin. 

However, as you are well aware, last week GAO issued a report 

citing that they submitted 45 recommendations to NASA in 2003, 

and of that number, 3 have been implemented and I believe 13 partially implemented. These recommendations are on the improvement of financial management. What words do you have to share 

with us on that? 

Ms. DALE. Thank you, sir. I am also troubled by the hearing from 

last week and the GAO recommendations on the financial management system at NASA. This was an issue that I dealt with when 

I was Staff Director of the House Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee in the 1990s, and unfortunately, it is still an issue that 

challenges NASA today. 

Obviously, we are all in need of a sound financial management 

system at NASA that we can all depend upon, one that provides 

reliable cost estimates and reliable financial management. 

My plan, if confirmed, is to meet immediately with the Chief Financial Officer to have a discussion about the recommendations 

that have been made by GAO and where the agency is in terms of 

implementing the remaining recommendations and what the plan 

is for what I understand to be a joint corrective plan to be sent forward from the CFO and the NASA IG. 

I also plan to meet with the Executive Director of the integrated 

financial management program and CIO to have further discussions about the enterprise architecture and the recommendations 

that have been made by GAO. 

These are the immediate steps, as well as meeting with the senior advisory group that has been established by Mike Griffin. This 

takes in experts from other agencies that are providing independent advice on the financial management system within NASA. 

I also plan to meet with them very soon, if I am confirmed, to gain 

their understanding and their independent assessment of where 

NASA is in the process. 

My plan is to have very aggressive oversight of where NASA is 

with their financial management system. This definitely needs to 

be brought under control. I know that there has been progress that 

has been made within the financial management system. I need to 

25

get on-the-ground truth about what is actually happening at the 

agency. 

Senator INOUYE. Of the 45 recommendations, 16 were partially 

or fully implemented. That left 29. Were they ignored, the remaining 29? 

Ms. DALE. Senator Inouye, my understanding is that the NASA 

CFO has made statements indicating that she believes other parts 

of the recommendations have already been complied with. That is 

something that, if I am confirmed, I need to find out immediately 

upon entering the agency, where does she think the agency is in 

terms of complying with the recommendations, looking over the 

GAO recommendations, and also having discussions with the senior 

advisory group to see what their take is in terms of an independent 

assessment of whether NASA is actually complying with the remaining GAO recommendations. 

Senator INOUYE. Will you share with this Committee the findings 

that you make on these? 

Ms. DALE. Absolutely, sir. 

Senator INOUYE. Ms. Higgins, you come highly recommended by 

your friends. What are your thoughts on the fact that airline accidents are now being diminished as compared to other accidents, 

rail and highways and such? What should be the core mission of 

your organization? Because whenever we hear of NTSB, we hear of 

airlines. 

Ms. HIGGINS. Senator, I have been, obviously, following these 

issues much more closely in the last few months. Vice Chairman 

Rosenker was just up in New York at the significant accident 

there, the boating accident on Lake George that resulted in a tremendous loss of life. Member Hersman, who is here, represented 

the Board at the rail accident in South Carolina, that again, caused 

a significant loss of life. There was a bus accident in Texas recently 

in the days before hurricane Rita that resulted in significant loss 

of life. So the Board, my sense is, has kept pretty busy even though 

there have not been a number of aviation accidents recently. And 

while aviation I think has the largest jurisdiction because it includes general aviation, as well as all other accidents, clearly they 

have major responsibilities in all of the other modes as well. 

I do think the staff are stretched pretty thin. I do not know what 

can be done about that, but I think, again from my perspective 

having read this RAND report, they anticipated some of these challenges and suggested that there was a need to look at how to better 

use resources and to bring to bear outside resources, not just relying on the in-house staff for the work that needs to be done. 

Senator INOUYE. Your agency is primarily an agency for investigation. 

Ms. HIGGINS. Yes. 

Senator INOUYE. In the process, you are bound to find errors that 

were made. Do you also make recommendations as to how to improve safety? 

Ms. HIGGINS. Yes. My understanding is the Board definitely 

does. 

Senator INOUYE. Should that be a more important part of the 

mission? 

26

Ms. HIGGINS. I think not only just making recommendations, 

Senator. I think it is also making sure that recommendations are 

implemented. It does not do any good to make recommendations 

that are never followed through. In looking at the recommendations currently unimplemented—as has been mentioned, I was involved in the TWA 800 accident that took place almost 10 years 

ago. Next summer will be the 10th anniversary of that accident. 

The most significant recommendation has not been fully implemented. The FAA is working on it. My understanding is the regulation is at OMB, but I find it of concern that 10 years later, that 

major recommendation has not been fully implemented. 

Runway incursions is another area where there have been recommendations made, again not implemented by the FAA or not 

fully implemented. 

I know there has been an initiative to try to close out NTSB recommendations. The Board and the members are doing more to 

work with state and local governments where they have jurisdiction. So I think there is some of that effort going on, but I think 

more needs to be done, not just to do the investigations and make 

recommendations, but really to follow it all the way through until 

the actions are taken. 

Senator INOUYE. I realize that with 43,000 highway fatalities, 

you do not have the time to investigate even 1 percent of them. But 

we note that too large a proportion of those involve teenagers and 

it also involves exceeding speeds. Do you have any recommendations as to what state laws should be? 

Ms. HIGGINS. On speed limits? 

Senator INOUYE. On teenagers. 

Ms. HIGGINS. I have not looked into that specifically. I have 

raised two teenagers, and they had their share of accidents. Fortunately, they were all minor. I know that the Board has looked at 

the issue of teenagers and cell phones as something that needs to 

be addressed by states, and I know some states are looking at the 

whole issue of cell phone use. Seat belts, that is obviously a major 

concern. That is something the Board has paid particular attention 

to. Alcohol as a contributor to accidents. So they have taken initiatives in a number of areas. 

I do not know enough about the work that they have done specifically focusing on young drivers. I think driver education and 

driver preparation is probably another area, and I think the Board 

has done some work there, but certainly more can be done. I think 

the roads are very dangerous for young people. There have been a 

number of significant accidents just in this metropolitan area alone 

very recently where young people have lost their lives. So it should 

be of great concern to all of us. 

Senator INOUYE. Mr. Rosenker, every life is valuable whether it 

is 1 or 1,000, and when you compare the fatality rate on the highways with Iraq, Iraq seems to be a very safe place. Do you have 

any recommendations? 

Mr. ROSENKER. Sir, I do. Many, many years ago I started in 

highway safety as one of the advocates for the safety belt use laws 

to require safety belt use. I remember back when we began that 

crusade, it was like talking about invading someone’s home, and 

27

yet 35 years later, we now have over 82 percent of the American 

people using safety belts. 

When I began in that program—as an advocate—55,000 people 

were dying on the Nation’s highways with fewer cars being driven. 

So we have made significant progress, but I think more can be 

done, sir. 

This is a personal opinion. This is not necessarily a Board position, but I believe technology has a tremendous role to play in the 

business of not just mitigating the results of an accident, but the 

business of accident prevention. There are 3 million injuries and 6 

million accidents. If we can begin to include as not just features, 

if you will, but requirements in our highways, as it relates to cars 

and trucks, things like electronic stability control, short-range 

automotive radar, we can begin the process of reducing, actually 

preventing the accident from occurring, rather than just mitigating 

the results after the accident has occurred. Now, again, sir, this is 

not a Board position. This is just my personal opinion. 

Senator INOUYE. Ms. Higgins, in this war on terrorism, we require by law and we mandate that certain things occur, and yet the 

potential for death and destruction on our highways is much greater than what terrorism has wrecked upon us. Do you think that we 

should go beyond recommendations and just say this is the way it 

is going to be done? 

Ms. HIGGINS. This is an area that I need to learn more about. 

But I think in our 50 states, each state has different speed limits, 

has different requirements for issuing driver’s licenses. I think 

there have been challenges over the years to try to have uniform 

standards in those areas. I think, as Chairman Rosenker has said, 

education can play a significant role here, and I think more work 

can be done by the Board in working with State legislators and 

local communities and various organizations to try to implement 

the practices that we know save lives. Certainly the Board works 

with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the 

other modes in DOT to look at safety, and this is an area, if the 

Committee requests or desires, we can certainly begin to pay more 

attention to. 

The other issue, which is not really the jurisdiction of the Board, 

but you can save lives on the highways by getting people out of 

their cars and into public transit. That is something, again, that 

is an issue of resources and priorities, but I think personally that 

that is an area that deserves greater attention. 

Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much. 

Senator PRYOR.

STATEMENT OF HON. MARK PRYOR,

U.S. SENATOR FROM ARKANSAS 

Senator PRYOR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Dale, I would like to talk to you briefly about the EPSCOR 

program. My sense of EPSCOR and other space grant programs is 

that these programs are very beneficial to research institutions. I 

think in the larger picture, they really help America have a competitive research base. I would like to get your thoughts on the 

long-term vision for EPSCOR and other educational programs that 

NASA offers. 

28

Ms. DALE. Thank you, sir. I am also supportive of EPSCOR. I 

think it is an important education program that serves historically 

under-represented geographical communities across the country. It 

is my understanding that NASA plans to continue to support 

EPSCOR into the future. 

I do not have as much familiarity with EPSCOR as I would like 

to, and that is something that I would like to have continuing dialog, if I am confirmed, with you and your staff, suggestions that 

you may have, what you think priorities are, and also assess, as 

I enter the agency, what the state of EPSCOR is. I am very much 

interested in the education programs at NASA. It is something that 

OSTP, the office that I come from, is interested in throughout the 

Federal Government, the science and technology programs for education—where they reside in particular agencies and how effective 

they are. So that is something that I will be interested in as well. 

Senator PRYOR. Great. I would love for you to keep me posted on 

that as you delve into that. 

Ms. DALE. Yes, sir. 

Senator PRYOR. I know that oftentimes NASA’s headlines or 

news coverage tend to be dominated by the human space flight program, and we understand that. But NASA does many other things, 

and one of the things you have had at NASA, at the agency, is you 

have had an initiative on nanotechnology, which I think is really 

potentially very, very significant. I know research institutions in 

my state are very focused on nanotechnology, as they are around 

the country, and it really has a very promising future I believe. 

But nonetheless, you do have budget pressures. I know there are 

nanotechnology and many other programs, talking about EPSCOR. 

How do you find the appropriate balance between human space 

flight and the other very important scientific missions that NASA 

has? 

Ms. DALE. Well, I can tell you, sir, that Administrator Griffin has 

expressed on many occasions his commitment to an overall balanced program within NASA. I share that commitment. I believe 

that it is possible and, in fact, very, very important to maintain a 

balance among human space flight, the space operations missions, 

and science and aeronautics within the agency. I think Administrator Griffin’s commitment has been unwavering on that point, to 

make sure that as the agency proceeds forward in the next couple 

of years, that that commitment to an overall healthy balance is 

maintained, and I am committed to that as well, sir. 

Senator PRYOR. Great. 

I know that in September NASA released its exploration architecture study which includes a plan to return to the moon with 

Apollo-style capsules, I believe around the year 2018. The projected 

cost on that will be $104 billion. As I understand the plan, NASA 

is going to try to find savings within existing programs in order to 

shift resources to this return to the moon. But as I understand it, 

maybe one of the areas of savings might be with the Shuttle program, but news reports have indicated that over the next 5 years, 

the Shuttle will actually need more money, not less, to operate. 

So my question for you is where do you think NASA will look to find that $104 billion. 

Ms. DALE. Thank you, sir. 

29

The first important point to emphasize is that the cost estimate 

that you made reference to is something that is actually built into 

NASA’s base budget over many, many years. The Vision for Space 

Exploration is also one that relies upon existing infrastructure. It 

is a shuttle-derived system. So it will be taking advantage of the 

workforce that presently exists, a highly skilled and highly technical workforce, the knowledge base that is resident with them, 

and also infrastructure that will be common to both the Space 

Shuttle and the Vision for Space Exploration. 

It is also important to note that this vision expands decades into 

the future, and it is an important step in terms of a sustainable, 

affordable approach. The approach is also go-as-you-can-afford-topay. So it is one that is designed with the resilience to withstand 

budgetary fluctuations in the future. 

You mentioned cost difficulties associated with the Shuttle. That 

is definitely an ongoing challenge within the agency, and it is my 

understanding that NASA is in dialogue with the Office of Management and Budget on the challenges of the Space Shuttle budget. 

Senator PRYOR. Thank you. 

Now, Mr. Rosenker and Ms. Higgins, in Arkansas we had a train 

accident on October 15 in Texarkana, Arkansas, which straddles 

the line between Arkansas and Texas. So you are going to have 

four Senators who are interested in this. It was a Union Pacific 

train coming into the station. Apparently it collided with another 

Union Pacific train that was stationary on the tracks. There was 

an explosion. It killed one Arkansan, hospitalized 20 other people, 

destroyed two homes and a rail bridge, and 700 people had to be 

evacuated from their homes temporarily due to the release of some 

gas or at least a feared release of some gas. I am very sorry that 

happened. 

As I understand it, you all have that under investigation right 

now? 

Mr. ROSENKER. Yes, sir. We sent a team down there within 8 to 

10 hours of the accident. Perhaps it was a bit longer, maybe as 

much as 12. But we did dispatch a team down there, and they are 

beginning right now to analyze what has happened. 

Senator PRYOR. How long do those typically take? 

Mr. ROSENKER. Sir, we are looking at train accidents, depending 

upon the complexity of it, anywhere from 12 to 18 months. We 

have one that we are looking at that we are going to be releasing 

in November that occurred in Graniteville. I believe it occurred in 

January and it will be released at the end of November. That will 

be approximately 10 months. 

Senator PRYOR. Well, 10 months is better than 12 or 18. 

Mr. ROSENKER. Yes, sir. 

Senator PRYOR. I understand about the complexity, but on something like this where a train just hits another train in the station, 

do you think it will be 10 months or longer, or do you have some 

sense of that? 

Mr. ROSENKER. Sir, I hate to prejudge the amount of time it will 

take. Clearly, we are, at the Board, as frustrated as apparently you 

and many, many people may be at the amount of time that it 

might take to investigate an accident. We are looking at ways to 

improve the efficiency of the actual reporting process, and I believe 

30

we will get there. But we do not wish to take any shortcuts. We 

cannot do that if we are going to maintain the methodology and the 

accuracy that we have when we, in fact, make a probable cause determination and the recommendations which are necessary to prevent that type of accident from happening again. 

But, sir, I agree with you. We need to do a better job of moving 

these reports and making these determinations, and we are working on that, sir, I guarantee you. 

Senator PRYOR. Is that a manpower issue or is that just the system you have in place? 

Mr. ROSENKER. Sir, it is a combination of perhaps both. We have 

14 rail investigators to cover the United States. Depending upon 

how you would characterize incidents and accidents, there are 

something close to 3,000 a year. We look at around 15 to 20 of 

them depending upon what happens that year. Some of them we 

move much faster, as I indicated. The Graniteville accident clearly 

took top priority, given the catastrophic nature of that accident. 

This one here, sir, we will be looking at very closely, and I will do 

as much as I can to expedite the result on that. 

Senator PRYOR. Well, like you said, I want you to be very thorough, but I just appreciate your keeping me informed as that continues. 

Mr. ROSENKER. Yes, sir, I will. 

Senator PRYOR. Mr. Chairman, thank you. That is all I have. 

Senator INOUYE. I thank all of you, Mr. Rosenker, Ms. Higgins, 

Ms. Dale. I have been advised by the Chairman that we will do our 

utmost to expedite your approval. In fact, if everything goes well, 

we will have a markup on your nomination tomorrow, which is 

quite extraordinary. Otherwise, you can be assured that it will be 

done within a week so you will be hard at work within a week. I 

thank you all very much and the hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

(31)

APPENDIX

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. BILL NELSON, U.S. SENATOR FROM FLORIDA

Mr. Chairman and Mr. Co-Chairman, I am pleased to support the nomination of 

Ms. Shana Dale for NASA Deputy Administrator. 

Ms. Dale has distinguished herself with her unique combination of skills and experiences that I believe will benefit NASA. She has provided leadership on important issues in the Executive and Legislative branches of Government and Academia. 

I believe that Ms. Dale will complement the technical knowledge of Administrator 

Griffin, and Associate Administrator Rex Geveden’s leadership in Science, Engineering and Operations, with her comprehensive knowledge of the agency from different 

perspectives gained while serving in the House Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee and for the Office of Science and Technology Policy. I offer my support 

for Ms. Dale’s nomination to be NASA Deputy Administrator, and am hopeful that 

her confirmation will be swift so that she can get to work helping NASA. 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. RALPH M. HALL, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM TEXAS

I would like to express my strong support of Shana Dale for the position of Deputy 

Administrator of NASA. I have personally known Ms. Dale for several years, and 

I worked closely with her when she was the staff director and I was the Ranking 

Member of the Science Committee’s Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee. I have 

always drawn strength and direction from her advice, and I am certain her counsel 

will be equally valuable for NASA’s Administrator, Michael Griffin. 

NASA is facing an era of great change and promise. As the agency implements 

the new Vision for Space Exploration with the goal of returning astronauts to the 

Moon and pushing on to Mars, it needs proven leadership to work with Administrator Griffin to meet these important ends. Shana Dale understands the direction 

of the agency, and has the know-how to get the job done. 

Ms. Dale has a breadth of experience in politics and policymaking that will help 

complete the top leadership at NASA. With experience in the legislative and executive branches as well as academia, she has an understanding of the complexities 

and challenges of how Congress and NASA interact. She expressed to me on more 

than one occasion that she understands the critical role Congress plays in determining the agency’s priorities, and she emphasized the need for clear communications between NASA and its authorizing and appropriating committees. 

Ms. Dale also brings a great deal of managerial experience to NASA. As Deputy 

Director for Homeland and National Security for the Office of Science and Technology Policy in the Executive Office of the President, she helped build the agency 

through recruiting skilled staff, developing functional operating procedures, and creating viable working relationships. She is a very capable manager who completed 

agency goals and tasks while staying on budget. 

I have listed just some of the many reasons that I fully and highly recommend 

Shana Dale for the position of Deputy Administrator of NASA. I hope that the Senate finds that she is a qualified candidate and quickly confirms her nomination.

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