1



            1              ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

            2              ENVIRONMENTAL LISTENING SESSION

            3               CO-HOSTED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF

            4                   ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY

            5

            6                *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

            7

            8             EPA DOCKET NO. EPA-HQ-0A-2011-0166

            9

           10                *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

           11

           12            EPA ENVIRONMENTAL LISTENING SESSION

           13                  TUESDAY, MARCH 15, 2011

           14                      GALVEZ BUILDING

           15                   602 NORTH FIFTH STREET

           16                   BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA

           17                   BEGINNING AT 1:00 P.M.

           18

           19

           20

           21

           22     REPORTED BY:

           23          APRIL M. LOMBARDINO, CCR

           24          CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER

           25


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            1     (WHEREUPON THE LISTENING SESSION WAS CALLED TO

            2     ORDER.)

            3     MR. THERIOT:

            4          I'm calling to order the Listening Session

            5     sponsored by the EPA and DEQ.  We have here Dr.

            6     Armendariz and Ms. Peggy Hatch, whom I will let

            7     introduce themselves to you before we go on any

            8     further.

            9     MS. HATCH:

           10          Welcome.  I appreciate everyone coming to

           11     this Listening Session.  It seems like just a

           12     couple of days ago, but it was about a week and a

           13     half ago, Dr. Armendariz sent me an e-mail and

           14     said, would DEQ like to co-host a Listening

           15     Session to address some of the issues that we

           16     have up on the board.  And I said, I would love

           17     to.  I think it's a great opportunity to have Dr.

           18     Armendariz here.  We work very closely together,

           19     EPA Region 6 and DEQ.  I am very happy with the

           20     turnout.

           21          With that, so we can stay on target for the

           22     time, I'm going to introduce Dr. Armendariz,

           23     Regional Administrator, EPA.

           24     DR. ARMENDARIZ:

           25          Thank you, Peggy.  Good afternoon everybody.


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            1     My name is Al Armendariz, and I am the Regional

            2     Administrator at EPA Region 6.  I want to thank

            3     everybody for coming today.  I want to thank

            4     Secretary Hatch and DEQ for providing the

            5     facility and for co-hosting this event with us.

            6          I'm going to turn it over to our moderator

            7     in just a second, but I do want to give you some

            8     big-picture ideas of what I'm trying to

            9     accomplish today and what I think would be a real

           10     big benefit for us, for DEQ, and for the

           11     stakeholders.

           12          The President, in his State of Union

           13     address, announced a commitment as part of the

           14     agency's push to grow jobs, to pull us out of the

           15     recession, to make sure that we don't have any

           16     outdated or redundant regulations that cost

           17     industry, that cost states, that cost local

           18     governments but really do not provide any kind of

           19     substantive benefit.  So, he's asked the

           20     different federal executive agencies to reach out

           21     to their stakeholders to see if there are

           22     suggestions for those things that need to be

           23     streamlined, need to be modernized, need to be

           24     gotten rid of, need to be kept, or need to be

           25     strengthened.  So, we are doing our own internal


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            1     review of our regulations.  Many of the other

            2     federal regulatory agencies are doing that as

            3     well, but we also wanted to make sure we provided

            4     the public the opportunity to provide us with

            5     input.

            6          So, for those of you who are here and for

            7     others that you know, I do want to let you know

            8     that EPA has set up a website that you can get to

            9     it from EPA.gov where you can submit official

           10     public comments for this effort.  So, you can go

           11     onto the website and if you want to provide

           12     information there -- You can even upload files.

           13     You can have written comments to provide EPA with

           14     your input on our regulations and on regulatory

           15     efficiency and on regulatory streamlining.  So, I

           16     just wanted to let you know that if you don't

           17     have the opportunity today to give us everything

           18     and provide all the comments that you'd like, you

           19     can certainly go onto our website and provide

           20     something to the public record that way as well.

           21          Now, today, what we decided to do is really

           22     focus today's session on a couple of topics.  I

           23     will let our moderator go into some more of the

           24     detail, but EPA looked at really the full scope

           25     of what we do.  And if you go onto our website,


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            1     you can see that we are taking comments on a

            2     whole host of issues ranging from children's

            3     health, ranging from grants, and everything we do

            4     in between.  But one of the things that's in

            5     there, and really the focus of today's town hall

            6     meeting, is to take a look at monitoring, look at

            7     technology, and look at compliance.  Sometimes in

            8     our rules and regulations we get very, very

            9     specific about the kinds of things that we ask

           10     the regulating community to do to demonstrate

           11     that they are in compliance with their permits or

           12     in compliance with the law.  Other times, we

           13     leave it very open and we don't get very

           14     descriptive.

           15          Now, I know for the first category,

           16     sometimes those requirements are set in stone.

           17     They are in the Federal Register.  We tell you

           18     exactly what you need to do in order to comply,

           19     and sometimes those regulations are now 20 years

           20     old and, perhaps, haven't been updated with the

           21     new advances we have in computers, in the

           22     internet, in miniaturization, in networks,

           23     telecommunications, and so on.

           24          So, when I called Peggy about a week and a

           25     half ago, it was really to have a session where


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            1     we can have people from really all the

            2     stakeholder groups, the public, the environmental

            3     community, the regulation community come and

            4     provide us with information about how we can

            5     improve our monitoring requirements, regulatory

            6     compliance and still meet the matrix that all of

            7     us want, which is clean air, clean water, and

            8     proper waste management.  So, if there are ways

            9     we can still meet those goals but do it so that

           10     there's less of a regulatory burden so that you

           11     are not doing something, if you are a permit

           12     holder, that is outdated and needless, we want to

           13     make sure that you can take advantage of the most

           14     recent technology.

           15          Just as an example, many of the refining

           16     industries we have in this part of the world have

           17     to do leak detection.  They have to do leak

           18     detection to make sure that the valves, flanges,

           19     and other pieces of equipment aren't leaking

           20     material into the air like viologen compounds,

           21     Benzene, those kinds of materials.  And so, there

           22     are regulations that have been around for a very

           23     long time that require that they go and

           24     periodically inspect their machinery.  There's

           25     this new technology out, and some of it was


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            1     actually innovated and partially tested shortly

            2     after Katrina down here in Louisiana using

            3     infrared cameras.  These cameras haven't been

            4     around very long.  It's been less than about five

            5     or six years that they've been commercialized.

            6     And with these little cameras now, you can

            7     literally do leak detection on an entire line of

            8     equipment in -- You can probably do the work

            9     five, six times more efficient than you could

           10     before with the old sniffer valve by valve,

           11     flange by flange kind of method.  And yet, in

           12     some of our regulations we used to require the

           13     valve by valve, flange by flange kind of method,

           14     and the regulations weren't flexible enough to

           15     take advantage of this new technology.

           16          So, that's just one example of where, I

           17     think for us to be good regulators, we need to

           18     allow for and take advantage of and hear from you

           19     where you think we can be more efficient.

           20          So, with that, I will go ahead and turn it

           21     over.  There are some ground rules.  We do have a

           22     fair number of people here.  Some of you are

           23     listening, some of you will be providing comment.

           24     So, we have a few ground rules set up so we can

           25     make sure that we give as many people as possible


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            1     the chance to provide us with input.  Again, if

            2     we don't get to you or if you have additional

            3     information you want to provide, feel free to put

            4     that on EPA.gov.  Thank you.

            5     MR. THERIOT:

            6          Thank you, Dr. Armendariz.  My name is Perry

            7     Theriot.  I am the Ombudsman for the Agency.

            8     This is not a normal public hearing so we are not

            9     subject to the statutes that usually put things

           10     into an order that we are required to follow.

           11     But using it as a guide, what was decided to do

           12     is we are going to -- We took each person who

           13     wanted to speak, we had them sign in, and they

           14     put the time that you signed in.  So, we are

           15     going to take you in the order that they came at

           16     the signing.  If you wish to wait until the end,

           17     you are more than welcome to say, I'd like to be

           18     placed at the end, and I will move your speaking

           19     and put it at the bottom of the pile so that

           20     everybody -- Or if you don't want to speak, you

           21     were going to speak but decided not to, I will

           22     take it out as well.

           23          We are going to try and -- Dr. Armendariz

           24     went over most of what I was going to say.  EPA

           25     does have a docket number for this, which is


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            1     EPA-HQ-OA-2011-0166.  That docket number is used

            2     when dealing with the compliance issues.  So,

            3     that has been entered in with the court reporter.

            4     Your comments will be recorded, and they are

            5     being filmed for future reference.

            6          We are going to try to limit it to the

            7     issues that Dr. Armendariz announced.  As most

            8     people who've attended a public hearing with me

            9     know, I will give you a little bit of leeway, but

           10     I won't let you go too far.  So, when you come

           11     up, keep in mind -- When you look up at the

           12     screen up here, these are the things that we are

           13     taking comments on.

           14          Due to the number of people here, I'm going

           15     to let each person speak for a little more than

           16     five minutes.  You will see me sort of signal

           17     you.  If you have a lot more than that, you can

           18     wrap up what you're saying and we will put you on

           19     the back and let you come back in and you can

           20     finish up at the end.  But we want to give

           21     everybody an opportunity to say what they want to

           22     say and get it into the record.

           23          We have provided a regulatory reform comment

           24     sheet that is available at the sign-in desk.  The

           25     written comments, along with the website, DEQ


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            1     will take them and turn them in for you.  And the

            2     written comments are open all the way until April

            3     4th.  So, you will have a little bit of extra

            4     time.  And if you want to comment on any of the

            5     other docket numbers included in this, that's

            6     acceptable as well.  The EPA, on it's website,

            7     does contain these docket numbers that cover

            8     other issues besides the one that we are

            9     centering on today.  They are holding other

           10     hearings throughout the country, but they will

           11     accept comments on the other areas.  But, today,

           12     we are going to try to stick with the ones that

           13     are up on the board.

           14          With that, I'm going to take the sign-in

           15     sheets.  Are there any questions from anyone

           16     before we get started?

           17     (NO RESPONSE.)

           18          Okay.  Then we will go ahead and get

           19     started.  Today's first sign-up is Mr. Henry

           20     Graham, Jr.  Mr. Graham is representing the

           21     Louisiana Chemical Association; and if you will,

           22     come up here to the podium.

           23     MR. GRAHAM:

           24          Good afternoon.  My name is Henry Graham,

           25     Jr.  I am with the Louisiana Chemical


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            1     Association, LCA's trade association representing

            2     the chemical agencies in the State of Louisiana.

            3          We have a couple of issues, and I'm going to

            4     try to hit a few points, certain areas, and there

            5     are some other speakers who will probably,

            6     hopefully, elaborate on some of the particular

            7     questions that you have.

            8          The first area, the area of monitoring, for

            9     example.  We recognize the importance of using

           10     the latest and the best technology in terms of

           11     monitoring equipment.  However, there are a

           12     couple of things as an example that the

           13     department may want to look at.  For example,

           14     sometimes you need to look at alternative

           15     monitoring plans.  This is an opportunity where

           16     you and different technology can be tested.  And

           17     certainly, under the new source performance

           18     standards or the National Emission Standard for

           19     Hazardous Air Pollutants, those programs, if you

           20     can get those alternative monitoring plans

           21     approved more quickly, then DEQ and the

           22     regulating community can try those approaches and

           23     get some results back.

           24          So, the first question, I guess, or

           25     suggestion would be to promptly approve


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            1     alternative monitoring plans because that's your

            2     best chance to test out the technology that we

            3     were talking about.

            4          Often, sometimes, we also need to look at

            5     what is a less costly method.  Sometimes the

            6     highest level of technology may also be cost

            7     prohibitive.  For the level of detection or the

            8     work that's being done, for example, screening

            9     protocols may not need to go to the highest level

           10     of technology just because it is the newest and

           11     the best.  A lesser costly alternative may

           12     actually help you and help others be more willing

           13     to comply.

           14          We suggest, also, that there are some

           15     disincentives right now with stack testing.

           16     Stack test results or permits are based on the

           17     less specific AP 42 factors as a permit

           18     deviation.  So, it creates -- We think some

           19     guidance is needed in developing relatively minor

           20     variations from AP 42 factors.  And, certainly,

           21     that would help with some rule-making changes.

           22          Some of the performance testing requirements

           23     we think should be customized so that repeat and

           24     frequent testing is not required when the initial

           25     testing shows emissions well below the regulatory


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            1     standard.  We think that you should encourage the

            2     use of standardized permit conditions that allow

            3     step-down in monitoring frequency based on proven

            4     performance over time so that you may take more

            5     frequent measures but as you've demonstrated

            6     containment, similar to what you do in some cases

            7     with the LDAR program, but take that a step

            8     further.  There are other programs that could

            9     benefit from that.

           10          Certainly, we think the EPA should assist

           11     DEQ with the cost of installation and operating

           12     of some of the newer monitoring equipment.  Your

           13     guys have developed and looked at newer

           14     monitoring.  DEQ may not have the funding to put

           15     the newer stuff in.  And if there is any way

           16     through grants or other programs or pilot

           17     programs where you could provide some of that

           18     equipment, that certainly would take a little bit

           19     of a burden off of the agency to put those

           20     monitors in.

           21          A couple of things about streamlining

           22     procedures.  They should streamline the

           23     procedures for location of monitors because,

           24     sometimes, the monitor may have looked like it

           25     was in the right spot but after working with it


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            1     and the conditions, you find out that's not the

            2     appropriate location.  But, often, it takes a

            3     long time to be able to change those monitors.

            4     So, there's a resistance to do something

            5     different because, oh, well, I've got this

            6     location approved.  It's easy to just put it back

            7     in the same location or keep doing it the same

            8     way I have.

            9          Also, you might want to consider sometimes

           10     you need to discontinue monitors when they are

           11     not effective or when they have shown that the

           12     results that you are not getting exceedances in

           13     those areas allow for some transition where the

           14     Department can take those limited resources and

           15     refocus the monitoring to other areas that maybe

           16     need more measurement, more effort.

           17          A couple other things.  We found this with

           18     the Clean Air Transport Rules, for example.

           19     Sometimes EPA needs to watch the models they use

           20     to make sure that the modeling they use is

           21     correct for the intended purpose.  The utility

           22     section IPM model that was used in the Transport

           23     Rule was disastrous.  It was very inaccurate and

           24     produced results that were very much different,

           25     often, in some cases, radically different than


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            1     the actual monitoring data showed.  So, we are

            2     kind of concerned about an overreliance on

            3     modeling.  Sometimes, you actually have the

            4     monitoring data.  We understand the need to have

            5     modeling, but predicting results when you don't

            6     have the monitoring data -- Sometimes we are

            7     concerned about the accuracy of the modeling

            8     regime in some of the models that are chosen.

            9          We also feel that if the monitoring network

           10     -- For example, in ozone, that's established and

           11     approved by the EPA and the data's gathered and

           12     the data is verified as being correct, we don't

           13     think that a model, which is less accurate,

           14     should then overrule actual monitoring data.  The

           15     monitoring data that shows attainment should take

           16     precedent over a theoretical model that may

           17     predict in the future a different result.

           18          There are a number of issues dealing with

           19     the National Ambient Air Quality Standards

           20     importation that are related to technology that

           21     we just want to bring to your attention.  As you

           22     know, there are a number of changes in these

           23     National Ambient Air Quality Standards over the

           24     last couple of years coupled with the initiation

           25     of greenhouse gas regulation, those are really


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            1     taking a lot of resources or will take a lot of

            2     resources both from DEQ and the regulating

            3     community.

            4          So, wherever possible, we think you should

            5     realize that some of the timelines may need to be

            6     extended.  For example, the greenhouse gas

            7     inventory.  Some of those rules really hadn't had

            8     time to start to actually implement better

            9     monitoring equipment, better measured equipment.

           10     You were forced to then give best estimates and

           11     certainly less accurate methods.

           12     MR. THERIOT:

           13          Henry?

           14     MR. GRAHAM:

           15          Again, I will have others talk on some other

           16     points.  I appreciate the opportunity to come.

           17     Thank you.

           18     MR. THERIOT:

           19          Thank you, Mr. Graham.  The next person up

           20     appears to be Mitchell, Mamie.

           21     MS. MITCHELL:

           22          Mamie.  Let him go first, and then I'll come

           23     later.

           24     MR. THERIOT:

           25          That's fine.  Are you Mr. Gregory Mitchell?


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            1     MR. MITCHELL:

            2          Yes, sir.

            3     MR. THERIOT:

            4          Please state your name and who you represent

            5     so that the court reporter can get it down.

            6     MR. MITCHELL:

            7          Good morning.  How are you doing?  My name

            8     is Greg Mitchell.  I'm from University Place

            9     Subdivision in Scotlandville where there's a

           10     sewer treatment facility.

           11          First, let me back up and say thanks.  We

           12     really appreciate this conference that you guys

           13     have put together.  And, hopefully, we will have

           14     some positive accomplishments out of this

           15     conference.

           16          As I was saying earlier, we live in

           17     University Place Subdivision where there's a

           18     sewer treatment facility owned by the City of

           19     Baton Rouge, which has devastated our community

           20     for over 15 years.  And we are here to ask that

           21     in the regulations if there would be some type of

           22     buffer zone that would be created in between the

           23     facilities, the community and those type of

           24     facilities, which are placed in the communities.

           25          Sewer flies are prevalent in our community.


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            1     You have to eat sewer flies.  The human waste

            2     smells are horrible.  We are just simply asking

            3     -- And we are trying to bring this to the

            4     forefront to ask the EPA to please come in, take

            5     a look at what's happening, help our community

            6     out, whatever technologies are available, let's

            7     put them in place because our communities are

            8     suffering.

            9          We have gone to every extreme to try and

           10     work with EPA, DEQ, and other departments to try

           11     and bring awareness to this.

           12          I'm going to show you pictures of the type

           13     of sewer flies, which are flying around in the

           14     communities on a daily basis.  I wouldn't wish

           15     them upon anyone's community.  I've heard Mr.

           16     Armendariz --

           17     DR. ARMENDARIZ:

           18          Armendariz.

           19     MR. MITCHELL:

           20          Armendariz spoke earlier about the

           21     children's health.  Believe me, sewer flies from

           22     a sewer plant flying throughout your community on

           23     a daily basis and you're having to intake these

           24     things and the human waste smell, the property

           25     values have been depreciated.  We are simply in a


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            1     city-created toilet.  And if there are

            2     technologies out there to help us -- Please visit

            3     our community.  It's one thing for us to be in

            4     the meetings and talk about them, but it's

            5     another thing to come out and take a look at it

            6     and be a part of it and see what's actually

            7     taking place.

            8          And for the Louisiana Supreme Court to rule

            9     that this is the way citizens of the State of

           10     Louisiana, the City of Baton Rouge should live --

           11     This is not the way citizens, taxpaying citizens

           12     should have to live in their community.

           13          We are asking, again, would you please --

           14     I'm going to leave a packet with you.  Would you

           15     please take a look at North Baton Rouge,

           16     University Place Subdivision?  If you can, tour

           17     the area before you leave Baton Rouge today,

           18     tomorrow.  I don't know when you guys are

           19     leaving, but we will take the time to come out

           20     and spend with you to let you see what's going

           21     on.

           22          Also, on tomorrow, we are -- Like as I said

           23     earlier, this has been an ongoing problem for

           24     over 15 years.  On tomorrow, if you will have the

           25     chance, we are having a community march which


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            1     will start at the back gates of Southern

            2     University and will end up at F.G. Clark Activity

            3     Center.  We are asking each of you, if you would,

            4     please come and join us and you will see the

            5     passion that this community has for this issue.

            6     It's really, really bad.

            7          Thank you for your time and we appreciate

            8     you, and we look forward to working with you on a

            9     positive role.  Thank you.

           10     MR. THERIOT:

           11          Thank you, Mr. Mitchell.  Okay.  Ms.

           12     Mitchell is going to waive her appearance.  The

           13     next one on my list is Mr. Michael Olivier or

           14     Oliver?

           15     MR. OLIVIER:

           16          Mr. Theriot, you should know that's Olivier.

           17     MR. THERIOT:

           18          I got it right the first time.

           19     MR. OLIVIER:

           20          Yes.  I'm Michael Olivier, Chief Executive

           21     Officer of the Committee of 100 for Economic

           22     Development, Inc.  The Committee of 100 is a

           23     private sector, statewide league of distinguished

           24     critical thinkers, about 140 business CEOs and

           25     university CEOs throughout Louisiana.  I am not


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            1     going to talk about monitoring equipment today.

            2     My purpose here is to talk about why this region

            3     hasn't been re-designated.  We know that we have

            4     acted on LDEQ's request, although numerous areas

            5     have had their re-designation request taken care

            6     of in a seven-month period, LDEQ has submitted,

            7     several months ago, a request for re-designation.

            8     That hasn't occurred, yet.  It's affecting

            9     economic development.  That's our concern.

           10          As an administrator, you understand.  You've

           11     heard about economic development.  I know you are

           12     not anti-economic development.  You are

           13     pro-economic development.  Our concern is that

           14     EPA's delay in re-designating the Baton Rouge

           15     area to attainment is impacting the area's

           16     economic development potential and our ability to

           17     create jobs.

           18          Job creation.  President Obama has talked

           19     about that often.  We hope that he certainly

           20     means that.  We hope that new businesses who have

           21     decided against coming to this area because of

           22     the non-attainment status will look at us in a

           23     different light if we achieve the attainment

           24     status.  So, your delay in granting the area's

           25     re-designation request is hurting us.


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            1          We join the Baton Rouge Area Clean Air

            2     Coalition in requesting that Region 6 grant this

            3     request without further delay.

            4          So, on behalf of the area, the economic

            5     development of the area -- Having served as

            6     Secretary of Economic Development here in the

            7     State of Louisiana from 2004 to 2008, I certainly

            8     appreciate and I know you do as well, the fact

            9     that we need economic development.

           10          Thank you.

           11     MR. THERIOT:

           12          Thank you, Mr. Olivier.  Next is Mr. Richard

           13     Metcalf.

           14     MR. METCALF:

           15          I'm Richard Metcalf.  I am the Director of

           16     Environmental Affairs for the Louisiana Oil and

           17     Gas Association.  We appreciate the opportunity

           18     to have this Listening Session and participating

           19     with several trade associations on joint written

           20     comments which will expound on comments that both

           21     Henry and I will make today.

           22          Dr. Armendariz lead me into my first issue

           23     regarding smart leak detection and repair.

           24     Industry.  Many of the industries in the state

           25     have already implemented that from a safety


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            1     standpoint in turnarounds and stuff.  Industry

            2     worked very hard with the EPA to incorporate that

            3     into the rules as an alternative for leak

            4     detection.  Unfortunately, when the rule came

            5     out, there is still a requirement to do the old

            6     method 21, which was disappointing to industry

            7     because of all of our efforts.  We do think that

            8     the smart leak detection program is the proper

            9     program to use as an alternative because it is

           10     much more cost effective and much quicker in

           11     finding the leaks.

           12          The second issue deals with the monitoring

           13     and requirements especially for the new ozone and

           14     NOx standards.  We want to be very cautious about

           15     the monitoring problems because of the short

           16     stacks and the effect short stacks would have on

           17     any kind of monitoring put out in the system.

           18     This is not just an industry issue.  There are

           19     thousands of short stacks put in and around the

           20     City of New Orleans and Jefferson Parish that

           21     under certain conditions, exhausts stay very low

           22     and any monitor or modeling that's done with that

           23     shows that they do not comply with the standards.

           24          So, we caution the EPA to improve their

           25     development of an implementation guidance from


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            1     both modeling and monitoring standpoint.  We are

            2     working, specifically, already in the St. Bernard

            3     area.  We are looking at the monitor that's in

            4     there, and we've already issued a modeling study

            5     to see what potential causes are.  So, we are

            6     already ahead of the game in working that

            7     standard.

            8          Thirdly, from the oil and gas production

            9     standpoint, we are cooperating and developing the

           10     greenhouse gas emission requirements.  But

           11     because the EPA took an evasive approach versus

           12     the individual facility approach, there are

           13     numerous very, very small sources that are part

           14     of one's operations in the basin that normally

           15     would not be covered, and we may be asking for

           16     some relief on those very small operations, in

           17     estimating emissions from them.  Once again, it's

           18     not an individual point source facility basin.

           19     It's all in your operations.  The basin --

           20     Essentially, south Louisiana is one basin.  So,

           21     you'd have to go through all of your facilities

           22     in south Louisiana in aggregating that and some

           23     of those may be very small.

           24          Fourth, and my final one, is in the water

           25     regulations.  Can there be a process to allow the


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            1     reduction of monitoring especially if over time

            2     you showed continued good performance?  Metro 21

            3     area has got some reduction in the program, but

            4     none of the other parts of the program allow for

            5     a reduction in monitoring.  Monitoring gets to be

            6     very expensive and it exposes our people to the

            7     hazards of our facilities.  And so, if there is a

            8     way to set up a policy or a program to allow for

            9     the facility to apply for a cascading reduction

           10     of monitoring based on continued good

           11     performance, we would like to implement this.

           12          Once again, I appreciate the opportunity to

           13     speak here today.

           14     MR. THERIOT:

           15          Thank you, Mr. Metcalf.

           16          Next I have a Mr. Jason Goodwin.

           17     MR. GOODWIN:

           18          Thank you.  Good afternoon.  My name is

           19     Jason Goodwin.  I am with Calpine Corporation.

           20     Calpine Corporation is an independent power

           21     company.  We have operating power plants across

           22     the United States that generate approximately

           23     28,000 megawatts of electric power for customers

           24     across the United States.

           25          A couple of notable items.  Our company is


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            1     the nation's largest producer of geothermal

            2     energy.  We are also the nation's largest

            3     producer of mine heat power.  Those are what we

            4     commonly refer to as the two main -- We kind of

            5     refer to them as co-generation facilities, which

            6     produce electric power as well as steam for our

            7     customers.

            8          Just a couple of items that we'd like to

            9     bring to your attention today.  To build on Mr.

           10     Olivier's point, we are very interested in the

           11     re-designation request for the Baton Rouge area.

           12     As you know, the area has recently submitted a

           13     request for re-designation to attainment having

           14     demonstrated compliance with both the 1- and

           15     8-Hour Zone standards.  As was mentioned, the

           16     uncertainty that goes along with that

           17     re-designation, hanging in limbo, provides a

           18     significant damper in terms of, certainly,

           19     initial investment and plant upgrades, plant

           20     expansions, things of that nature.  So, again,

           21     with that, we would encourage the agency to

           22     continue working toward conclusion on that.

           23          A couple of other areas we'd like to talk

           24     about.  As part of our compliance obligations, we

           25     are required to monitor air pollute emissions.


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            1     One of the programs that we offer is called Part

            2     75, which is a continuous monitoring program.

            3     That program allows us to use electronic

            4     recording, submitting electronic reports as

            5     opposed to paper reports.  So, as we see with

            6     other programs such as Part 60, which have

            7     similar requirements and obligations, we'd like

            8     to continue to ask the EPA to look toward

            9     electronic media as a means of reporting,

           10     eliminating paperwork, and things of that nature.

           11          Yes, sir?

           12     MR. THERIOT:

           13          We had a request from the back of the room

           14     to try and speak more into the microphone so that

           15     people can hear you in the back.

           16     MR. GOODWIN:

           17          Sure.  So, again, we would ask the agency to

           18     try and utilize those electronic media wherever

           19     possible.  It eliminates some duplication in

           20     terms of reporting, cuts down on paper use, and

           21     things of that nature.

           22          One other comment with respect to greenhouse

           23     gas.  That is a parameter that we have been

           24     reported for years and also under Part 75.  So,

           25     from the prospective of large generating units,


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            1     that really represents no meaningful change for

            2     us.  However, when you are looking at small

            3     facilities, small back-up generators, small

            4     intermittent sources, the additional burden in

            5     terms of reporting relative to the contribution

            6     portion of emissions represents a fairly

            7     significant additional workload.

            8          So, we'd ask the agency to consider whether

            9     there is something dominative regarding reporting

           10     online with service sources that could be

           11     excluded out focusing on the larger and more

           12     prominent contributors.

           13          Thank you.

           14     MR. THERIOT:

           15          Thank you, Mr. Goodwin.

           16          Our next speaker is Anna Hrybyk.

           17     MS. HRYBYK:

           18          Hi.  My name is Anna Hrybyk.  I am the

           19     Program Manager at the Louisiana Bucket Brigade.

           20     I've got a lot of comments.  Hopefully, we can

           21     run right through them.  If I go over, just stop

           22     me.

           23          Currently, we are working on an initiative

           24     called the Refinery Efficiency Initiative with

           25     active community groups living next to refineries


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            1     in St. Bernard, North Baton Rouge, and Shreveport

            2     as well as with the regulators, EPA Region 6,

            3     DEQ, and the United Steelworkers on the issue of

            4     refinery accidents.  We have been pressuring to

            5     get industry involvement in this initiative for

            6     the last year.  And whatever you can do to help

            7     that along, that would be wonderful.

            8          Today, I am going to talk to you about

            9     lessons learned from this initiative and our work

           10     over the last ten years.

           11          First off, Title V Clean Air Act and Clean

           12     Water Act.  The State of Louisiana and the USEPA

           13     do a poor job of enforcing the Clean Air and

           14     Clean Water Acts.  The following suggestions

           15     could help improve this.

           16          First off, Clean Air Act fees.  Under Title

           17     V of the Federal Clean Air Act, the state is

           18     required to permit and inspect large facilities,

           19     monitor emissions at major sources and air

           20     pollution in neighborhoods, and set standards.

           21     The same law makes clear that major emission

           22     sources are supposed to cover these expenses, not

           23     the taxpayers.  But our emissions fees are too

           24     low.  The federal minimum was $41 per ton of

           25     pollution in 2008; the State of Texas averaged


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            1     $32 per ton of pollution in 2008; yet Louisiana

            2     emission fees average only $15 per ton.

            3          We believe that the state is short-changing

            4     public health due to this, and we think that an

            5     effective monitoring program can't happen until

            6     you raise the Clean Air Act fees.  Often when the

            7     state is asked why they do not have fence line

            8     monitoring around all plants in the state, the

            9     state response is that they do not have resources

           10     to do such a thing.

           11          When we publicized our request to the

           12     governor to raise the Title V fees, the state's

           13     response was that they did not need the extra $10

           14     million in revenue because they were

           15     consolidating offices.

           16          The new standards that are supposed to limit

           17     short-term exposure to sulfur dioxide in refinery

           18     communities are long overdue.  But these

           19     standards will mean nothing if the state cannot

           20     afford to collect the real time, not estimated,

           21     data needed to evaluate exposure and cut

           22     emissions to protect public health.

           23          Budget shortfalls in the state have meant

           24     that less than 50% of major facilities received a

           25     full Clean Air Act compliance evaluation in 2008


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            1     and 2009.  This is despite the fact that EPA

            2     policy requires 100% of major facilities to have

            3     a full compliance evaluation every two years.

            4     The state's low fee structure deprives the

            5     hardworking environmental stewards at the DEQ of

            6     the tools they need to do their jobs.

            7          Permits.  The permitting process for Title V

            8     permits in Louisiana is severely inadequate

            9     because they never include adequate real time air

           10     monitoring as proof of compliance.  The state has

           11     consistently ignored comments from community

           12     groups and groups like the Bucket Brigade on this

           13     issue.  We are forced to petition the EPA to

           14     object to these permits time and time again and

           15     pressure the DEQ to fix these dangerous errors.

           16          One of those errors is estimated versus

           17     actual emissions.  In Louisiana, refineries are

           18     permitted to use a variety of methods to estimate

           19     their emissions, which include vague methods like

           20     engineering judgment and emissions models that

           21     are not approved by the EPA.  Recent studies have

           22     found that even EPA approved emission factors

           23     like the AP 42 are grossly underestimating

           24     emissions by 40 to 50%.  Permits issued by the

           25     state for air emissions should require facilities


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            1     to prove their compliance with emission limits

            2     with real time, web accessible, fence line

            3     perimeter monitoring stations located in

            4     surrounding communities, particularly at schools.

            5          Community Air Monitoring Stations.  The

            6     state has enough resources and political will to

            7     require fence line monitors as a part of all

            8     future permits.  Facilities should be required to

            9     install community air monitoring stations around

           10     its perimeter.  This would include meteorological

           11     equipment, monitoring and sampling equipment for

           12     Hydrogen sulfide, Sulphur dioxide, VOCs and PM

           13     2.5.

           14          Continuous emissions monitoring systems

           15     data.  In order for LDEQ enforcement personnel to

           16     do their jobs, permits should allow for CEMS data

           17     to be publicly available to assist in permit

           18     violation, investigations, and accident

           19     investigations by both DEQ and concerned

           20     citizens.

           21          Number Two.  Settlements.  DEQ should be

           22     more transparent and involve affected communities

           23     in the negotiation of settlements with

           24     facilities.  Recently, LDEQ and Calumet Refining

           25     in Shreveport came to a settlement behind closed


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            1     doors even though the community has been meeting

            2     with the refinery for years trying to improve

            3     their quality of life.  If the community had

            4     known about the settlement, they could have

            5     advocated for a beneficial environmental project

            6     that was actually relevant for the community.

            7          Number Three.  Emergency Response During a

            8     Chemical Accident.  Currently, neither

            9     petrochemical facilities nor the DEQ are required

           10     to notify the community of a large release, above

           11     reportable quantity, unless the facility deems it

           12     hazardous.  This presents a conflict of interest

           13     because they are interested in protecting their

           14     bottom line and not the public health.  The only

           15     way the public comes to find out that something

           16     has been released is if the community calls the

           17     media.  The notification on the type of release

           18     and the quantity does not enter public record

           19     until at least seven days after the accident has

           20     already occurred.  This does not give communities

           21     any information in the moment on how to protect

           22     themselves and their children from harmful

           23     chemicals.

           24          Number Four.  Environmental Justice.  Lack

           25     of regulation around chemicals.  EPA needs to


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            1     advance rulemaking to catch up to the more than

            2     80,000 chemicals in use by the petrochemical

            3     industry.  Rulemaking needs to be more protective

            4     of young children and elderly as well as take

            5     into account vulnerability and proximity,

            6     long-term health risks, and health affects of

            7     chemical combinations not just one chemical at a

            8     time.

            9          Point B.  Community Environmental

           10     Monitoring.  It is important for EPA/DEQ to

           11     consider not just the monitoring systems needed

           12     to ensure compliance but also how these

           13     monitoring systems are used.  There is an

           14     excellent opportunity right now to achieve

           15     environmental justice by employing fence line

           16     community members as environmental monitors,

           17     training them to take air, water, and soil

           18     samples and to interpret and translate the sample

           19     results for their communities.  Simple

           20     technologies like the bucket air sampling device

           21     are inexpensive, easy to use, and do not require

           22     a Ph.D. to operate it.  Investing in community

           23     training for this and other such devices like

           24     FTIR spectrometers, passive water samplers will

           25     have complementary benefits.


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            1          Burdensome reporting requirements for

            2     industrial polluters.

            3     MR.  THERIOT:

            4          Ms. --

            5     MS. HRYBYK:

            6          All right.  That's where I'll end.  The rest

            7     is all right here.

            8     MR. THERIOT:

            9          Are you going to be submitting those?

           10     MS. HRYBYK:

           11          Yes.  I will give you some more copies.

           12     MR. THERIOT:

           13          Okay.  Thank you.  By the way, you can come

           14     back later if you like after everyone has had a

           15     chance.

           16     MS. HRYBYK:

           17          Okay.  I'll come back.

           18     MR. THERIOT:

           19          Next on the list is Ms. Moore.

           20     MS. MOORE:

           21          I'm going to pass.

           22     MR. THERIOT:

           23          Okay.  Ms. Shontelle Griffin.

           24     MS. GRIFFIN-MITCHELL:

           25          Good afternoon.  My name is Shontelle


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            1     Griffin-Mitchell, and I'm speaking on behalf of

            2     University Place.

            3          There's some things that has went on in

            4     University Place that we truly disapprove of.

            5     For one, the enlargement of the sewerage

            6     treatment plant has violated us as far as our

            7     homes.  Where they place these tanks, they are

            8     directly across the street from our house.  You

            9     can look down in the tanks.  There is a mist that

           10     comes from those tanks that constantly comes

           11     over.  The wind blows them upon us, our cars, on

           12     our homes.  It's damaging our homes.  The sewer

           13     flies.  It's a constant problem.  We've

           14     complained over and over and over again.  The

           15     smell.  Not only the smell of feces but the smell

           16     of the chemicals when they try to cover it.  It

           17     doesn't help, either.

           18          Those chemicals create health problems.  My

           19     son -- Well, all three of my kids.  They have

           20     asthma right now.  And every time they go there,

           21     they have an asthma attack.  If it's not from the

           22     chemicals, it's from the smell.

           23          They also gave to my mother-in-law, that's

           24     across the street from the plant, things to treat

           25     her house as far as the smell.  They give her


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            1     sanitizer.  They give her air freshener from the

            2     City, Parish.  And also a chemical spray to kill

            3     the bugs, which don't kill the sewer flies

            4     because they are constantly flying.  They are

            5     matted on the house.  I think there's unfair

            6     justice in this.  I think that because of the

            7     city, some things were done unfairly.  We went

            8     through 15 years of fighting.  The U.S. Court

            9     Justice System told us that it shouldn't be a

           10     problem.  Well, if we took that sewer treatment

           11     plant and put it out there on the golf course,

           12     would it then be a problem?

           13          I mean, they expect us to live through this,

           14     constantly, without anything being said and

           15     nothing to be done.  They granted us $20,000 out

           16     of a whole community.  $20,000 to pat us on the

           17     back and tell us because of the house -- Not

           18     because we, as people, but because the house

           19     suffered, which I didn't understand that.  And

           20     then they only granted it to only one house after

           21     they moved one or two others.

           22          They removed the park in order to put the

           23     sewer treatment plant here.  When it started out,

           24     it was a small facility.  A very small little

           25     pump.  Now, we have a full fledged facility that


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            1     has five or six tanks that sit there in front of

            2     my house, my mother-in-law's house.  And we've

            3     contacted several different people.  We've

            4     contacted LEAN, Senator Mary Landrieu's office,

            5     Bill Cassidy, Governor Bobby Jindal's office,

            6     Mayor Kipp Holden, which we have his testimony

            7     before he made Mayor.  We also have the prior

            8     Mayor telling me when he leave office to contact

            9     him, and then council members and the councilman,

           10     Ulysses Addison.

           11     MR. THERIOT:

           12          Ms. Griffin?

           13     MS. GRIFFIN-MITCHELL:

           14          Yes?

           15     MR. THERIOT:

           16          I have to remind you.  I let you go a little

           17     bit afar of what the docket is today.

           18     MS. GRIFFIN-MITCHELL:

           19          I understand.

           20     MR. THERIOT:

           21          That's not a problem.  I'm not going to stop

           22     you, but try and keep your comments close to what

           23     is docketed here, and you can continue.

           24     MS. GRIFFIN-MITCHELL:

           25          Okay.  Not only did we contact them, but we


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            1     contacted the DEQ and the EPA and the Department

            2     of Justice.

            3          So, I'm saying all of that to say that they

            4     offered to give us bottle tops.  That's an

            5     upgrade that's supposed to cut the smell.  Well,

            6     guess what?  Bottle tops is only going to cut so

            7     much.  It don't cut the feces smell, but they

            8     call that an update.

            9          And you know, I mean, I just don't know

           10     where to turn.  We've talked to you guys.  We've

           11     sent letters.  And as far as upgrade the system,

           12     that's fine, but I would recommend that you have

           13     someone from the federal level come down and

           14     regulate when they are building and expanding

           15     these facilities, that they are not intruding on

           16     our homes.

           17          The city has allowed them to put these tanks

           18     closer to the street, closer to the neighborhood

           19     when they could have went further back towards

           20     the river.  So, maybe if we would have had

           21     someone to regulate that from the federal level,

           22     maybe we would have had better justice than what

           23     we have now.

           24          So, basically, I'm just saying that we need

           25     a little bit higher authority than the local


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            1     level.

            2          Thank you.

            3     MR. THERIOT:

            4          Thank you, Ms. Griffin.

            5          Next, Ms. Maureen Harbourt.

            6     MS. HARBOURT:

            7          Good afternoon.  I would like to start by

            8     thanking the EPA and DEQ for co-hosting this

            9     Listening Session.  I believe it's a great idea.

           10     As you can see, there's a lot of interest here on

           11     diverse topics, and I would like to encourage the

           12     EPA to start a program of doing something like

           13     this for an afternoon maybe three or four times a

           14     year in each of the Region 6 states.  I think

           15     it's very helpful to get us all together.  Again,

           16     thank you very much for hosting this.  It's a

           17     great idea.

           18          I will be submitting written comments.  I am

           19     with Kean Miller law firm.  We are counsel for

           20     the Louisiana Chemical Association and other

           21     individual companies that are regulating

           22     industries.  I will make my comments very brief

           23     and try not to cover subjects that others have

           24     already covered.

           25          One of the things that we would like to


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            1     encourage the EPA to do is streamline the program

            2     for approval of alternative monitoring plans

            3     under the NSPS standards.  In many cases, the

            4     submission of an alternative monitoring plan

            5     takes a year or more to approve.  Some rules

            6     provide that approval is retroactive to the date

            7     of submittal and other's don't.  We think that

            8     could benefit from some streamlining, and we will

            9     have some written suggestions on that process.

           10          The EPA should also encourage the use of

           11     standardized permit conditions in all of their

           12     permitting programs:  Air, water, and waste that

           13     allow a step-down in monitoring frequency based

           14     on proven good performance over a reasonable

           15     period of time.  That's, of course, taking into

           16     consideration age of the agreement and other

           17     factors.  In particular, in water permits in the

           18     LPDs and the PDs permits, there is guidance about

           19     the step-down, but the cost, the provisions are

           20     not self-implementing.  It takes a permit

           21     modification, and there are very few

           22     opportunities for minor modifications.  So, in

           23     essence, that means that you really have to wait

           24     until there is a permit renewal cycle.  So, if it

           25     was built into the permit as a specified


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            1     standardized permit condition, that would work

            2     much better and still achieve the environmental

            3     objectives.

            4          We would suggest that the EPA consider

            5     having a Clean Air science advisory committee

            6     panel over models specific to model development

            7     and use.  As one of the prior speakers mentioned,

            8     we've seen the use of models that are

            9     inappropriate to the task.  A lot of times people

           10     are taking models and shoehorning them into

           11     applications for which they were not intended.  A

           12     prime example was the use of the IPM model which

           13     was developed from the utility projected economic

           14     information, and it was used in the Clean Air

           15     Transport Rule proposal that resulted in some

           16     significant errors that caused EPA having to go

           17     back out with the notice of date, availability,

           18     and re-do the entire model based on a lot of new

           19     data inputs.

           20          In addition, we think that it's critical for

           21     the increased use of models that we see that

           22     there be a very good initial inventory.  In

           23     particular, on areas that probably less attention

           24     has been devoted to.  For example, in the Clean

           25     Air Transport Rule, there were gross errors in


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            1     the inventories concerning marine vessel

            2     emissions.  For Louisiana, for example, over

            3     70,000 tons of NOx was from marine vessels that

            4     are actually located and operated outside the

            5     Louisiana statutory boundaries that Louisiana was

            6     not responsible for but were attached in

            7     Louisiana's data thereby skewing what the effects

            8     were for our state.  Those offshore emissions

            9     exist, but they need to be temporarily inspected

           10     and located appropriate if there are to be good

           11     use of models and projected emissions so that

           12     everyone knows what emissions we really have and

           13     how to control them.

           14          EPA should, on the LPS and DPS Program,

           15     consider amending the rules to allow for more

           16     modern modifications not just in the area that I

           17     mentioned, the issues of monitoring frequency,

           18     but having more flexibility would also

           19     potentially allow changes in monitoring methods

           20     to allow more use of innovative monitoring in

           21     development.  Again, with the very straight

           22     jacket modern modification process, there are

           23     only, I can probably count on my hand, things

           24     that you could do underwater.  And therefore,

           25     changing your monitoring system is very


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            1     difficult.

            2          In addition, other than the LPS Program, EPA

            3     should evaluate whether continued bio-monitoring

            4     at the same levels, certainly the same

            5     requirements, are necessary.  There's been a

            6     wealth of data developed over the last decade

            7     about bio-monitoring, and it has provided a lot

            8     of good information.  But the question is:  Is

            9     there a continued need for the level of detail in

           10     those programs?  It's a very expensive annual

           11     requirement for some facilities.  So, there could

           12     be some improvements in how bio-monitoring

           13     programs work.

           14          Again, thank you for the opportunity for

           15     comments.

           16     MR. THERIOT:

           17          Thank you, Ms. Harbourt.

           18          Okay.  Can you state your name and address?

           19     I think you are Ms. Griffin?

           20     MS. MITCHELL:

           21          No.  I'm Mamie Mitchell.

           22     MR. THERIOT:

           23          Okay.  And you had earlier waived?

           24     MS. MITCHELL:

           25          Yes.  And thank you for allowing me to.


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            1     First of all, I want to say thank you all for

            2     having this session here in Baton Rouge.  Thank

            3     you.  We really appreciate it.  Again, my name is

            4     Mamie Mitchell.  I live at 9958 Avenue M in

            5     Scotlandville, Louisiana.  It's just outside the

            6     gates of Southern University.

            7          My problem is sewer flies, maggots, you name

            8     it, snakes, roaches, everything.  We just live in

            9     our own jungle back there.  I have the sewer

           10     plant in the neighborhood too, but my house is

           11     sitting directly in front of all of them tanks

           12     there.  And it causes all the sewer flies.  I've

           13     had people out from the Health and Hospitals, Mr.

           14     Jones and all have been there.  And they've

           15     agreed that it's a problem, but nothing has been

           16     done.  EPA, we've met with them.  Nothing yet has

           17     been done.

           18          Meetings are fine, but actions speak louder

           19     than words.  And I think something needs to be

           20     done.  If you all can help us, we would

           21     appreciate it.

           22          The sewer plants continue to not meet the

           23     mandate and requirements that are supposed to be

           24     done.  They are supposed to meet certain

           25     requirements.  They don't meet these requirements


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            1     and still nothing is done.  They need to either

            2     be shut down or something needs to be done.

            3          I think from the very beginning to allow

            4     this to be put into a neighborhood was wrong,

            5     from the very beginning.  When you all allowed it

            6     to happen, you were just as involved as the city

            7     was.  So, I feel that something needs to be done

            8     to help us.  And if you can do anything to help

            9     us, please do so.  Like I said, I may be out of

           10     order by saying this.  I can't even have my

           11     grandchildren over to enjoy the outside because

           12     of flies.

           13          I've had businesses come to my house and

           14     tell me they won't be back anymore.  A lady

           15     swallowed a sewer fly by coming to my door.  So,

           16     I know that there is something.  Nobody should

           17     have to live in a situation like this.  It is

           18     ridiculous.  There's breathing problems back

           19     there.  Most of us are on oxygen tanks.  You talk

           20     about clean air.  Where is it?  You have to leave

           21     out of your house and go somewhere to try and get

           22     clean air.  What do you do for Baton Rouge,

           23     itself, to have clean air?

           24          Not only the sewer plant but the plants and

           25     all this.  We are surrounded by all of this.  So,


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            1     I know that the EPA, whoever can do something to

            2     help us with this situation.

            3          Thank you.

            4     MR. THERIOT:

            5          Thank you, Ms. Mitchell.

            6          Next on here is Marylee Orr.

            7     MS. ORR:

            8          I wasn't going to say anything, but that's

            9     difficult for me.  Thank you so much, Dr. Al,

           10     Secretary Peggy.  It's a real pleasure to see

           11     you.  Thanks, everybody, for showing up here.

           12          I'm going to deviate a little bit, and we

           13     are going to hand in written comments, but I

           14     don't have them with me today.  I'm here for my

           15     members at University Subdivision because the way

           16     they live, no one should live, certainly in 2011.

           17     I can testify, myself, going out there and seeing

           18     the odors and the sewer flies and the conditions

           19     that they live in and what Ms. Mamie said is

           20     right, she can't have her grandchildren come out.

           21     Who would want to come visit this community?  And

           22     their voices have gone unheard.

           23          I thank you very much, Dr. Al, for sending

           24     out folks from EPA.  We were meeting with DEQ,

           25     too, but they were busy that day.  We certainly


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            1     hope there's going to be a follow-up about the

            2     situation.

            3          There's other things.  A lot of our focus is

            4     on lack of enforcement, things that are not

            5     getting done.  We found it necessary to send a

            6     lot of notice letters to folks to try and

            7     encourage them to come into compliance.

            8     Sometimes, unfortunately, we have to file suit.

            9          Recently, we won a lawsuit in Belle Chasse

           10     against Sun Drilling.  We were concerned because

           11     their discharge was right down from the drinking

           12     water intake, downstream from the facility.

           13          I mentioned University Subdivision.  That is

           14     a great concern to us.

           15          Of course, the air quality issue is

           16     something Richard Henry -- and I know other

           17     people have mentioned as well -- We are very

           18     concerned about the negative impact on the health

           19     of the people that live here, live close to the

           20     industrial facilities that are not in compliance.

           21     Accident releases and other conditions frequently

           22     negatively impact the air quality in our area.

           23          There's a need for appropriate technologies

           24     to be installed to measure and monitor the

           25     chemicals being released around these events.  We


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            1     need some mechanism that there is an easier way

            2     for industry to be encouraged to do the right

            3     thing, in our opinion, to make it safer for us to

            4     live next door to them.

            5          One of the things we've been working on,

            6     and, again, I may be a little out of the realm

            7     here but I want to bring it up.  It's the

            8     Haynesfield Shale.  This is something that we are

            9     working on, very closely.  The Office of

           10     Conservation has permitting authority of the

           11     wells in the Haynesfield Shale.  The DEQ has

           12     authority over air emissions, waste water from

           13     the drilling, fracture that they've got to show

           14     the natural gas as well as the air emissions,

           15     compressor stations, and pipelines.  There's a

           16     real need for EPA to exercise it's oversight

           17     authority over DEQ.  Specifically, focus on air

           18     emissions and waste water streams associated with

           19     the Haynesville Shale.

           20          At some point I'd like to, and I don't know

           21     if it's appropriate, Dr. Al or Secretary Peggy,

           22     you might can answer this.  It's like all family

           23     here.

           24          Certainly, during the BP oil spill, for us,

           25     we were very frustrated about the problem with


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            1     new technology.  I think that you had like 10,000

            2     people show up at the Command Center to try to

            3     implement new technology.  We are using

            4     technologies that were used 20 years ago.  There

            5     is absolutely no mechanism or conduit for people

            6     to get relief on that.  I just wanted to bring it

            7     up because it's been a great source of

            8     frustration.  I don't know if you've even had an

            9     opportunity to meet with the folks to really

           10     discuss it, but I just wanted to bring it up.  We

           11     will have more specific written comments.

           12          We thank you so much for having this, and I

           13     agree with Maureen, we need to have them more

           14     often.  Thank you.

           15     MR. THERIOT:

           16          Thank you.

           17          Okay.  Ms. Moore, what's your first name?

           18     MS. MOORE:

           19          Iceola.

           20     MR. THERIOT:

           21          Iceola.  Okay.  Thank you.

           22     MS. MOORE:

           23          My name is Iceola Moore.  I live about a

           24     block -- I live on Avenue L, and the sewer plant

           25     is on M, directly in front of my house.  Directly


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            1     in front of my house.  And the scent have all of

            2     us sick.  My grandchildren.  I raised a good bit

            3     of them.  And my eyes too.  They suffer with

            4     running eyes, sneezing, coughing.  I had one girl

            5     stay out of school two years with a cough right

            6     behind one another.  Just cough, cough, cough.

            7          The flies.  They are covered on the door.

            8     And they'll be back, more, when the summertime

            9     come.  They be black, just cover up the door.

           10     After I put the screen door up.  Before I had the

           11     screen door up, I just had the bugs in there.

           12     They come through.

           13          I was eating breakfast, cereal and milk.  I

           14     looked down.  Something was tasting kind of

           15     funny, kind of cracking like in my mouth, and I

           16     was eating flies.  They had just come in and fell

           17     in my milk.  I'm watching TV and when I taste a

           18     funny taste, that made me see what I -- Flies.  I

           19     had to hunt me a screen door and make it myself

           20     and put it up there for the flies.  It just be

           21     something back there.

           22          We need to be out from back there.  We

           23     didn't have that when we first moved back there.

           24     It was a good subdivision.  But after they

           25     brought the plant back there, back there around


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            1     '97, it really got bad back there.  The files

            2     done took over, and you have gnats and flies and

            3     everything sometimes.  It looks like nothing you

            4     do helps them.  It looks like it gets more.  I

            5     have a daughter who is sick.  Carrying her to the

            6     hospital and still have to take her -- She has to

            7     take breathing treatments now.  The other day --

            8     Running eyes, nose running.  It looks like some

            9     of everything just happened.  I stay sick all the

           10     time because I have a dry cough.  And the cough

           11     go and come.

           12          We just need to be out from there.

           13     Something needs to really improve to get us out.

           14          She had a teacher come into the house to

           15     teach her.  The teacher got sick.  Two teachers

           16     got sick.  They had to send a third teacher.  The

           17     third teacher kind of stuck it out until two

           18     years.  And then the year she had to go back to

           19     the school, she couldn't stay in school because

           20     she was getting back sick again, and teachers

           21     were calling for me to come and get her and bring

           22     her home.  They didn't want her in school because

           23     she kept coming up with coughing, sneezing, and

           24     looked like just everything.

           25          I hope y'all will do something for getting


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            1     us out from back there.  It's really bad back

            2     there.  You need to come back there and just see.

            3     Just come and see for yourself.

            4          And the scent will wake you up at night.

            5     You'll be sleeping and it will wake you up.  It

            6     comes through the cracks of the house.  When they

            7     were drilling, the house started cracking from

            8     that drilling.  We get the scent coming in there.

            9          And then we get the bad water, too.  The

           10     water be rusty colored looking.  You put it in a

           11     clear glass, look at it, it's brownish.  It's

           12     rusty.  And it leaves a -- It's on the glass,

           13     brown looking, when you have your water.  Go and

           14     coming.  It might clear up a little bit.  After a

           15     while, it's right back brown.

           16          Something really needs to be did about back

           17     there.  Thank you.

           18     MR. THERIOT:

           19          Thank you, Ms. Moore.

           20          Next.  Mr. Willie Fontenot.

           21     MR. FONTENOT:

           22          Thank you.  My name is Willie Fontenot, and

           23     I'm currently serving as Conservation and Chair

           24     of the Delta Chapter of the Sierra Club.  I'm a

           25     lifelong resident of Louisiana.  Just a little


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            1     background.  April of 1978 to April of 2005 I

            2     served as a Community Liaison Officer for the

            3     Louisiana Attorney General's office.  My job was,

            4     basically, to work with individuals, groups,

            5     businesses, local government, news media, and

            6     others to try and help them with environmental

            7     problems, questions, and issues.  I worked with

            8     groups across Louisiana and about 30 other

            9     states.

           10          You are correct that this is a reasonably

           11     good turnout; but if the Environmental Protection

           12     Agency and the Department of Environmental

           13     Quality are really serious about trying to reach

           14     out and connect with the public, this meeting is

           15     a failure because there should be five or six

           16     thousand people in this room.  We have one small

           17     community from North Baton Rouge that has had

           18     several residents speak.  And then the only

           19     residents who've spoken here spoke about some

           20     environmental problems.  Particularly

           21     representatives from major industry is here

           22     today, but none of the people who live near those

           23     industries are here because they don't know about

           24     this meeting.  If they do know about the meeting,

           25     the really felt like it's pointless to show up


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            1     because they've been to committee meetings.  I

            2     think the EPA and DEQ need to do a much more

            3     serious job of reaching out to the public and

            4     educating the public to get them more involved in

            5     the decision-making process.  It's a little

            6     easier to say than to do.

            7          I think it's a failure of the whole

            8     environmental program at the state and federal

            9     level, public has not been able to be more

           10     informed and more involved in the decision-making

           11     process.  Industry has complained about a lot of

           12     the details and current law and regulations about

           13     the reports they have to fill out, monitoring

           14     that they have to do, such as fence line

           15     monitoring discussed several times in this

           16     meeting.  I would say that fence line monitoring

           17     can provide some things, but the things they are

           18     monitoring for only gives you a sense of what

           19     might be in the pollution or in the air.  It does

           20     not give you a real defense.  And monitoring the

           21     fence line does not necessarily tell you what

           22     people are getting in their communities beyond

           23     the fence lines.  It also doesn't provide the

           24     workers in those industries with adequate

           25     information about what they are being exposed to.


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            1     I haven't heard any workers from any industry in

            2     here today talking about what kind of conditions

            3     they have to deal with.  Some of these industries

            4     are extremely hazardous, as you well know, and

            5     the real fence line monitoring that needs to take

            6     place needs to have the workers of these

            7     industrial facilities more adequately educated

            8     about what they can do to make themselves safer

            9     in their workplaces and it would really help the

           10     communities around those facilities be much safer

           11     communities.

           12          The industry is very good today about

           13     extending security.  They hire off duty police

           14     officers but their plant security stops at their

           15     fence line.  So, they have off duty police and

           16     sheriff's deputies that, basically, gives them an

           17     extension of security many miles from their

           18     facility.  But they don't do any extension of

           19     monitoring for what sorts of pollution might be

           20     in the air and the water, and I think the

           21     industry needs to do a much, much better job of

           22     making sure that their operations are not

           23     adversely impacting the lives of the people

           24     around their facilities and their workers.

           25          I will be sending in some written comments.


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            1     Thank you very much.

            2     MR. THERIOT:

            3          Thank you, Mr. Fontenot.

            4          Ms. Mary Williams.

            5     MS. WILLIAMS:

            6          Good afternoon.  Thank you for this

            7     opportunity to come and listen to the voices of

            8     the community.

            9          My name is Mary Williams, and I'm a Program

           10     Manager for Community Outreach at Dillard

           11     University, South Central Environmental Justice.

           12     I come to speak up and provide a voice for a

           13     community in New Orleans East against a plant, a

           14     gasification plant.  That's basically technology

           15     where they are producing waste to energy.

           16          We've done our homework on this particular

           17     technology and has found that the technology,

           18     first of all, has not been approved here in the

           19     United States and some of the areas where the

           20     technology has been used in Japan and Germany,

           21     has failed.  So, these communities where the

           22     gasification plants have been have had

           23     explosions.  The energy, waste to energy that is

           24     produced has not been found to be true.

           25          This particular community, one of the things


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            1     they are concerned about is the pollution, first

            2     of all, coming from that plant.  But also from

            3     the diesel trucks.

            4          We have met with Sun Energy about two years

            5     ago.  About 28 neighborhood associations came

            6     together and expressed some of their concerns.

            7          One of the things that Sun Energy said they

            8     would be doing with the type of traffic in that

            9     particular community, 17 diesel trucks per day,

           10     for 16 hours a day, every day, running through

           11     that community.  And this particular plant that's

           12     proposed is about half a mile away from a very

           13     small subdivision, Allison community, and in very

           14     close proximity to many conveniences, and New

           15     Orleans East.

           16          One of the other things we are asking is the

           17     EPA to help us because we've written several

           18     letters at the time to Mayor Nagin and the

           19     Department of Environmental Quality.  Our concern

           20     is this community is already inundated with

           21     pollution.  There's 27 illegal dump sites in that

           22     community.  So, we are asking that an

           23     environmental analysis be done before this

           24     particular plant is given a permit.

           25          Also, we want to make sure that there's some


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            1     policies that are in place to ensure -- I know we

            2     want new technology, but we want to make sure

            3     that this technology is safe.  So, to make sure

            4     that if technology has been proven, even though

            5     it is new to the United States, to make sure that

            6     it's been proven to be safe in these communities.

            7          Thank you.

            8     MR. THERIOT:

            9          Thank you, Ms. Williams.

           10          Now, that covers everyone who initially

           11     signed.  So, what I would normally do in most

           12     public hearings, right now, is open the floor to

           13     anyone who didn't sign up who wants to make a

           14     comment into the record or who might have spoken

           15     before and whom I stopped before they were

           16     finished.  So, at this time, if someone wants to

           17     do some additional speaking, this would be the

           18     time to do it.

           19          When you come up, please state your name,

           20     your address for the record, and who you

           21     represent.

           22     MR. HAMMATT:

           23          Hello.  My name is Bruce Hammatt.  I'm

           24     representing Bruce Hammatt.  My address is 141

           25     Hammatt Drive in Baton Rouge.


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            1          I appreciate the opportunity to come up

            2     here, and I appreciate the opportunity to have

            3     you over here.  And I thank you for your time in

            4     putting this on, too.

            5          You had mentioned the issue of the leak

            6     detection in the repair process and the cameras.

            7     I was lucky enough a few years back to have that

            8     camera in my hands a couple of times, and it's a

            9     very important tool.  I think it should be used a

           10     lot more than it is now.

           11          The Department of Environmental Quality with

           12     primary funding from the EPA did a significant

           13     study, a couple of studies, using the hand-held

           14     camera there.  And we did find that there were a

           15     significant number of emissions from the

           16     transportation industry that are not being

           17     captured right now.  The ozone modeling in Baton

           18     Rouge does not capture it, has not captured it.

           19     The modeling program does not even include a

           20     component for that.  The emissions that came from

           21     the mobile sources, the barges on the Mississippi

           22     River, were quite significant.  I think the

           23     information is in the records here with the

           24     Department or the contractors.  I will tell you

           25     that the EPA contractors and the Corps of


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            1     Engineers worked with us on that study, and I

            2     think that that information needs to be included

            3     in the ozone monitor, and I think in the ozone

            4     modeling effort.  And I also think that there

            5     needs to be a federal program, either EPA or the

            6     Coast Guard, that actually looks at those

            7     releases and tries to minimize them because they

            8     are quite significant.  When you take a look at

            9     the total emissions in Baton Rouge, those are

           10     extremely high.  And with the Intercoastal

           11     Waterway here in Baton Rouge with the barge

           12     mooring spots along the river right here, with

           13     the lock system on the Intercoastal where the

           14     barges have to sit and wait to be let through or

           15     into the Intercoastal or into the river already

           16     coming from Houston or Lake Charles or something,

           17     and waiting in the Intercoastal is quite

           18     significant.  It also, I think, impacts the

           19     location of the air monitors that we have in

           20     Baton Rouge.

           21          For an example, the air monitor there at the

           22     LSU station is right across the river from the

           23     monitor.  In many cases, when we were looking at

           24     the sources of contamination on days where we

           25     were not predicting or the Department of


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            1     Environmental Quality was not predicting an ozone

            2     event, and we had one, the winds were from the

            3     direction that could indicate that they were

            4     coming from these mobile sources.  Again, those

            5     mobile sources are not being truly regulated by

            6     any agency.  If you take a look at the impacts to

            7     the community, to the citizens of Baton Rouge

            8     from sources that are unregulated or unmonitored

            9     or kept at a minimum, I think it's quite

           10     substantial.

           11          And, Willie Fontenot, I will tell you that

           12     I'm representing myself as a private citizen here

           13     that's not working for the Department or not

           14     working for industry.

           15          Thank you very much.

           16     MR. THERIOT:

           17          Thank you, Mr. Hammatt.

           18          Does anybody else want to come up and speak?

           19     We have one person raising their hand.  Two.

           20     Okay.  Mr. Fontenot.

           21     MR. FONTENOT:

           22          Willie Fontenot.  I'm not sure if you have

           23     my address.  It's 632 Grehr, G-R-E-H-R, Avenue,

           24     Baton Rouge, 70806.

           25          One of the real challenges that people are


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            1     commenting on today and one of the issues we have

            2     is lack of information about what's around you.

            3     We have residents from the Scotlandville area in

            4     Baton Rouge talking about one of the two major

            5     sewerage treatment facilities for Baton Rouge.

            6     But what they haven't mentioned and may not be

            7     totally aware of is within two miles of their

            8     community are probably two dozen, that would be

            9     24, major petrochemical facilities, three

           10     Superfund sites, a closed landfill, an operating

           11     landfill, the major landfill for East Baton Rouge

           12     Parish, major pipelines that run next to their

           13     neighborhood, and the major transportation of

           14     extremely hazardous materials by rail, by truck,

           15     and by barges.  Mr. Hammatt mentioned barges.

           16     And while the problems these folks are dealing

           17     with with the sewerage treatment facility is

           18     significant, they could be overwhelmed by an

           19     accident within ten miles of their home with the

           20     nuclear power plant and many other hazards that

           21     they probably have not thought about too much.

           22          It's very difficult for people to get

           23     information about what is around them that may be

           24     adversely impacting them or may adversely impact

           25     them in the future.  Industry that spoke here


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            1     today correctly pointed out that it is a real

            2     serious problem keeping up with all of the

            3     paperwork that they have to deal with and report

            4     to the Department of Environmental Quality and

            5     the Environmental Protection Agency.  But it's an

            6     even greater challenge to the public, like the

            7     residents from the Scotlandville area, to be able

            8     to find out what they are exposed to and how to

            9     turn to information that might be available to

           10     them from the federal and state agencies.

           11          I think there needs to be a greater effort

           12     to help the public get to understand what some of

           13     the challenges are, not just the industry, the

           14     paperwork requirements or the monitoring

           15     requirements, but what people are exposed to or

           16     potentially to be exposed to.

           17          I would think that just about everybody in

           18     this room today is aware that there are some

           19     major problems happening in northeast Japan, and

           20     it's been going on for a few days.  We could have

           21     a major accident like that here, probably not

           22     from an earthquake, but we could have a major

           23     accident either from the railroads or the highway

           24     or the pipelines or with one or more of the

           25     industries in the area that would overwhelm every


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            1     system Louisiana has in place today.  The

            2     emergency warning systems that East Baton Rouge

            3     or the City of Baton Rouge have in place are

            4     good, but they are totally inadequate.

            5          A few years ago when Honeywell Chemical

            6     Company had three major accidents, residents

            7     living within a half of a mile from that facility

            8     were well within the adequate hearing range of

            9     the emergency response system of Baton Rouge, but

           10     they were unable to understand what the warnings

           11     were that were being broadcast on the emergency

           12     system.  People went outside to be able to hear

           13     the emergency system and found out it was telling

           14     them to stay inside because there was chlorine in

           15     their neighborhood.  They were -- It could have

           16     been a really serious situation.  Hopefully, it

           17     wasn't.  Serious in terms of the number of people

           18     killed or seriously injury, but there were some

           19     exposures.

           20          No community in Louisiana, probably in

           21     Region 6, is there an adequate system for warning

           22     communities when there's a hazard from major

           23     releases from an accident or some other mishap

           24     from industry.  I don't know if that's part of

           25     the information you are looking for input on, but


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            1     I think it is a real serious missing component.

            2          The public doesn't understand what the

            3     potential exposures are.  None of the state

            4     agencies have an adequate system letting the

            5     public know about it.  The public has very little

            6     understanding of what to do if there is an

            7     emergency.

            8          Thank you very much.

            9     MR. THERIOT:

           10          Thank you, Mr. Fontenot.

           11          One of these days I'm going to pronounce

           12     your last name correctly.

           13     MS. HRYBYK:

           14          Let's do it right now.  It's Hrybyk.  The

           15     "H" is silent.

           16     MR. THERIOT:

           17          Hrybyk.  Okay.

           18     MS. HRYBYK:

           19          Okay.  Fasten those seatbelts.  Here we go.

           20          Burdensome reporting requirements for

           21     industrial polluters.  I'm going to echo Willie

           22     right now.  Please remember that the oil and gas

           23     industry is currently experiencing record profits

           24     yet their monitoring is inadequate.  In LA

           25     permits, Louisiana permits, refineries are only


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            1     required to stack test most heaters and boilers

            2     once every five years on a pre-scheduled date.

            3     This would be like having drivers make an

            4     appointment with the traffic police to measure

            5     their speed limit.  Of course the driver will

            6     abide by the limit during this time.  Similarly,

            7     the refinery has the ability to manipulate its

            8     process to show compliance with emission limits.

            9     This system is inefficient and prescheduled stack

           10     testing should be replaced with continuous

           11     emissions monitoring systems.  These systems have

           12     been proven to be cost effective and are not too

           13     burdensome for major sources of industrial

           14     pollution.

           15          On the issue of benefits and costs.  Flare

           16     reduction programs.  Flare reduction programs

           17     have gone a long way in increasing the public

           18     health benefits due to the reduction of harmful

           19     chemicals being released through the flare.  EPA,

           20     in recent years, has been able to quantify the

           21     benefits of emission limits on harmful chemicals

           22     like SO2 by assessing the burden placed on the

           23     healthcare system.  Unfortunately, all flares are

           24     not covered under new source review until they

           25     are modified or upgraded.  To fill this


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            1     regulatory gap, consent decrees should identify

            2     this as a major source of unreported emissions

            3     and target these sources for emissions reductions

            4     through flare minimization and flare gas

            5     recovery.  And this should cover all the flares

            6     in the facility, not just one or two.

            7          Furthermore, Title V should ensure that the

            8     gas routed to the flares is measured for chemical

            9     makeup, flow, heating value, and that the steam

           10     added to the flare is accurately measured.  All

           11     consent decrees should include flare reduction

           12     for all flares.  The new New Source Performance

           13     review, subpart JA, adds broader definition on

           14     modification or reconstruction of flares, but it

           15     has been on hold since December of 2008.

           16          You can maximize net benefits through

           17     community environmental monitoring, which we

           18     talked about earlier, and to go back to an

           19     emissions inventory audit and increasing Title V

           20     fees.

           21          The DEQ and EPA must audit the state

           22     emissions inventory.  Many sources of industrial

           23     pollution are underreported and/or misreported.

           24     Without accurate information, it is impossible to

           25     target limited agency resources to achieve


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            1     maximum environmental and public health benefit.

            2     For example, a recent EPA review of flaring

            3     emissions from one Midwest refinery revealed that

            4     the facility was likely emitting 85 times more

            5     VOCs from its flares than it had reported to the

            6     state inventory.  Because of erroneous reporting

            7     like this, the cost-benefit analysis for reducing

            8     emissions is misbalanced.  Therefore, an

            9     emissions inventory audit will help address some

           10     of these problems.  Both an audit of calculation

           11     methods in use among Louisiana facilities and the

           12     increase of Title V fees to the federal minimum

           13     would raise an incredible amount of resources for

           14     the monitoring systems proposed in these

           15     comments.  Our letter to the governor and various

           16     letters to EPA Region 6 on these issues are

           17     attached.

           18          There are many ways that an emissions

           19     inventory audit and a more accurate inventory can

           20     improve regulatory efficiency and even the bottom

           21     line for many facilities.  The existing emissions

           22     inventory is not accurate.  Many times, emissions

           23     are underestimated.  For example, at one facility

           24     we found that, prior to 2009, a U.S. refinery

           25     reported flare VOC emissions assuming a VOC


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            1     emission factor of 0.14 pounds per mmBTU.  In

            2     2009, the refinery revised its estimates based on

            3     an assumed 98% combustion efficiency, resulting

            4     in VOC emissions that were on average seven times

            5     greater than previous estimates.

            6          Using the Marathon Texas City test results

            7     and the refinery's flare vent gas and steam flow

            8     rates, EPA calculated combustion efficiencies and

            9     estimated VOC emissions that were up to 15 times

           10     higher than the refinery's revised estimates for

           11     some flares.  See where I'm going here?

           12          With improved information, EPA and DEQ can

           13     better target their regulatory and enforcement

           14     efforts to address the biggest sources of

           15     pollutants threatening the health of our

           16     communities.

           17          So, all of the graphs and data for that are

           18     attached here.

           19          I also just wanted to say that a Listening

           20     Session from 1:00 to 3:00 in the afternoon during

           21     the work week, you will never get residents

           22     during that time.  We tried our hardest to get

           23     residents from refinery communities, and we all

           24     work.  Most of the community residents have other

           25     daytime jobs.  So, if you really want the input


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            1     of the community, I would have this at night.

            2          Thank you.

            3     MR. THERIOT:

            4          Thank you.

            5          Anyone else?

            6     MS. GRIFFIN-MITCHELL:

            7          Shontelle Griffin-Mitchell, and I just

            8     wanted to say something about these meetings.

            9     It's great having them, and it's very important

           10     that we do have them.  But one thing that

           11     Louisiana has to fight is politics here.

           12          And I ask that whenever we have these

           13     meetings that they are better announced and that

           14     we do have someone here that's not locally --

           15     other than locally in the meetings.  We need

           16     someone with higher authority because the

           17     meetings, we all attend, we speak up in the them,

           18     we voice our opinions, but, due to politics, some

           19     things go unheard.

           20          So, I'm asking that you guys have a better

           21     meeting with the EPA on the federal level, and

           22     hear more of what communities are going through

           23     and what we are fussing about because these

           24     things are very harmful to our health.

           25          He did speak upon the dump that's in a


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            1     subdivision, which is Allison Community, and

            2     that's directly across from people's homes, also.

            3     But, still, in Louisiana, it's been going

            4     unheard.  So, we are just asking that we get

            5     better announcement from the federal level and

            6     help us out in that because, locally, we are not

            7     getting anything.

            8          Once again, we would like to invite you guys

            9     out to our community to come see for yourself,

           10     and also come out to our community march tomorrow

           11     at 4:30 to 6:00.

           12          Thank you.

           13     MR. THERIOT:

           14          At this time, I'm going to have a couple of

           15     closing remarks.  I'd like to thank everybody

           16     who's come out here.  As the moderator, I think

           17     it's important, just as the speakers have told

           18     you, I think it's very important that both

           19     citizens and business get together periodically.

           20     I find it brings a better understanding.  We may

           21     not always agree on things, but it's good to keep

           22     the conversation going.

           23          I thank each and every one of you for coming

           24     here today.  I know that both business and

           25     industry feel it's very important that you work


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            1     with the government agencies that are here.  We

            2     welcome you to be working with us.  Sometimes we

            3     hear that people think it doesn't do any good.

            4     Well, it does do some good.

            5          I think that each and every one of you need

            6     to realize when you sit together, we are unique

            7     in the world.  I don't think if you went to other

            8     countries you would find a public hearing

            9     anywhere in this nation.  This allows input from

           10     everyone to come here and tell us what they think

           11     about things.  And I really appreciate each and

           12     every time people do show up.

           13          With that, I'm going to let our two agency

           14     heads here close it out for us.

           15     DR. ARMENDARIZ:

           16          I just want to reiterate and thank everybody

           17     for coming, and I do want to apologize about the

           18     short-term nature of us putting this meeting

           19     together.  I'm glad it happened because we are on

           20     a very short timeframe, and there was a risk that

           21     we weren't going to have this at all unless

           22     Secretary Hatch stepped up.  And she has provided

           23     us with a forum and her own staff to help put

           24     this on.

           25          I do want to let folks know that we


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            1     certainly recognize a lot of people work during

            2     the day and that's why we've got an online system

            3     at EPA.gov.  We certainly do want to encourage

            4     folks -- Ever since I started this job, even

            5     before I started this job, there were lots of

            6     engineers, people working on widgets and cameras,

            7     all kinds of stuff in their garages and their

            8     business, their companies, that they think make

            9     monitoring compliance better.  So, any help you

           10     can provide us getting the word out, letting

           11     those folks know that we want to find out from

           12     them on what they think we can do to be more

           13     efficient and more effective and more innovative.

           14     Certainly, we want to invite them to write

           15     comments.

           16          With that, Peggy, thank you very much.  And

           17     thanks, again, for coming.

           18     MS. HATCH:

           19          Thank you, everyone who came and spoke.  I

           20     appreciate all the participation.  Thank you.

           21     MR. THERIOT:

           22          Just a final note.  Remember that the

           23     written comment period does end April 4th.  So,

           24     that's just a little reminder.

           25     (WHEREUPON, THE LISTENING SESSION WAS CONCLUDED.)


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            1                      REPORTER'S PAGE

            2          I, April M. Lombardino, Certified Court

            3     Reporter, for the State of Louisiana, the officer

            4     as defined in Rule 28 of the Federal Rules of

            5     Civil Procedure and/or Article 1434(b) of the

            6     Louisiana Code of Civil Procedure, before whom

            7     the following was taken, do hereby state that due

            8     to the spontaneous discourse of this proceeding,

            9     dashes (--) have been used to indicate pauses,

           10     changes in thought, and/or talkovers; that same

           11     is the proper method for a transcription of

           12     proceeding; that the dashes do not indicate that

           13     words or phrases have been omitted from the

           14     transcript; that the above was reported by me and

           15     transcribed by me, and is a true and correct

           16     transcript to the best of my ability and

           17     understanding.

           18
                                _______________________________
           19                   April M. Lombardino, CCR
                                Certified Court Reporter
           20                   Louisiana License No. 98080

           21

           22

           23

           24

           25


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