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U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

PUBLIC HEARING:

Standards of Performance

for Greenhouse Gas Emissions

8:30 a.m. through 8:01 p.m.

Thursday, May 24, 2012

Ralph H. Metcalf Federal Building

Lake Michigan Room, 12th Floor

77 West Jackson Boulevard

Chicago, Illinois 60604
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EPA PANEL:

Jenny Noonan, Hearing Chair

 Director of Policy Analysis and 

 Communications, Office of Air Quality, 

 Planning, and Standards

Christian Fellner, 

Donald Bruce, 

Douglas Aburano, 

Michael Compher

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C O N T E N T S

 Page

Public Comments:

Dr. Claire Butterfield, Faith in Place &

 Illinois Interfaith Power and Light

 Campaign ....................................12

Beth Wallace, National Wildlife Federation.....17

Mikka McCracken, ELCA, Evangelical Lutheran 

 Church in America and National Council of 

 Churches USA ................................21

Rev. Myriam Renaud, Concerned Citizen .........25

Peter Iwanowicz, American Lung Association ....29

Jean Sideris, UCS, Union of Concerned 

 Scientists ..................................34

Randy Juras, Concerned Citizen ................39

Daniel M. Dolan-Loughlin, Concerned Citizen ...43

Wanda Martin-Terry, Concerned Citizen .........48

J. Drake Hamilton, Fresh Energy ...............51

Pamela Hardwicke, CATF, Clean Air Task Force...56

Susan Buchanan, M.D., Physicians for Social

 Responsibility and Union of Concerned

 Scientists ..................................61

Christopher Codispoti, M.D., Allergist ........66

Janet Smith, Sierra Club Cool City Coalition ..68

Daniel Lee, Physicians for Social

 Responsibility ..............................73

Joseph Leija, M.D., Allergist .................77

Robert Collier, Environmental Defense Fund ....82

Bryan Grochowski, Blue Green Alliance .........88

Theodore Steck, Concerned Citizen .............93

David Schaefer, Concerned Citizen .............97

Jan Gehrig, Cool Joliet ......................105

Maureen McCue, M.D., Iowa Chapter of 

 Physicians for Social Responsibility .......108

John Rachow, M.D., National Organization of 

 Physicians for Social Responsibility .......113

Ellen Rendulich, CARE, Citizens Against

 Hurting the Environment ....................116

Peter Gorr, Sierra Club and the Illinois 

 Solar Energy Association ...................119

John Heinz, Concerned Citizen ................124
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C O N T E N T S

 Page

Public Comments:

Tom Wolf, Energy Council of the Illinois

 Chamber of Commerce ........................125

Judith Jonker-Bredeweg, West Michigan Sierra

 Club and West Michigan Environmental Action

 Council ....................................131

Peggy Salazar, Southeast Environmental Task

 Force ......................................134

Mary Burnitz, CARE, Citizens Against Ruining

 the Environment ............................136

Steven Francis, Concerned Citizen ............139

Tracey McFadden, Concerned Citizen ...........144

Reuben Keller, Ecologist .....................149

Kelly Pierce, Concerned Citizen ..............155

Dr. John Bodine, Concerned Citizen ...........159

Robert Hudson, Concerned Citizen .............162

Bill Moore, Concerned Citizen ................169

Dick Munson, Recycled Energy Development .....172

Max Muller, Environment Illinois .............178

Sandra Kaptain, Elgin Climate Change

 Organization ...............................183

Rev. Dr. Jerome Stone, Concerned Citizen .....191

Amy Allen, Students for Environmental

 Concerns ...................................193

Peter I. Slaby, Concerned Citizen ............195

Derrell Slaughter, Lansing NAACP Branch ......199

Rev. Theresa Dear, NAACP Dupage County .......207

Dorthea Thomas, NAACP Michigan State

 Conference .................................210

Jacqueline Patterson, Concerned Citizen ......215

Katherine Egland, NAACP Environmental and

 Climate Justice Committee ..................221

Theodore Carrington, NAACP, Environmental and

 Climate Justice Program for New Jersey .....225

Gloria Gilmer, NAACP .........................230

Terry Wiggins, Interfaith Earth Network of 

 Southeastern Wisconsin .....................233

Yangyang Cheng, Concerned Citizen ............237
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C O N T E N T S

 Page

Public Comments:

Mitchell Avant, Concerned Citizen ...........241

Virginia Wisdom, Concerned Citizen ..........244

Dr. Robert Rosenstein, Concerned Citizen ....248

Terry Grace, Concerned Citizen ..............253

Ann Schultz, Concerned Citizen ..............259

Verena Owen, Sierra Club ....................262

Andrew Clarke, Concerned Citizen ............267

Pamela Ortner, Health Care Without Harm .....272

Charlotte Des Jardins, Concerned Citizen.....278

Kevin Kuhn, Concerned Citizen ...............279

Tony Fuller, Sierra Club ....................285

Angela Li, UChicago Climate Action Network ..289

Bob Bingaman, Sierra Club ...................290

Stacey Salman, Concerned Citizen ............295

Sylvia Glauster, UChicago Climate

 Action Network and Chicago Youth Climate

 Commission ................................299

Caroline Wooten, Concerned Song-Writing

 Citizen ...................................304

Julian Borjas, Chicago Clean Power Coalition.309

Jerry Mead-Lucero, PERRO, Pilsen 

 Environmental Rights and Reform 

 Organization ..............................312

Cheryl Hogan, Concerned Citizen .............319

Michael Zurakob, Concerned Citizen ..........321

Willard Fry, M.D., American Thoracic Society.324

Dr. Robert Jacob, Concerned Citizen .........327

Karen Roothaan, Concerned Citizen ...........332

Ryan Baker, Concerned Citizen ...............336

Caitlin Grey, UChicago Climate Action 

 Network ...................................338

Alexandra Siporia, Concerned Citizen ........340

Anthony Martinez, Beyond Coal Campaign ......341

Suzanne Dixon, Kalamazoo River Sturgeon for

 Tomorrow and Saugatuck Dunes Coastal Alliance ..................................342
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C O N T E N T S

 Page

Public Comments:

Ross Carstens, UChicago Climate Action

 Network and Chicago Youth Climate 

 Commission ................................346

David Ellis, Sierra Club Hoosier Chapter, 

 Dunelands Group ...........................348

Carole Herhold, Concerned Citizen ...........352

Ann Joseph, Concerned Citizen ...............354

Joseph Weston, Operation Free Campaign ......356

Lora Chamberlain, M.D., Concerned Citizen ...360

Olivia Woollam, Concerned Citizen ...........364

Jenny Woronecki, Concerned Citizen ..........370

Paul Kim, Sierra Club .......................375

Lucinda Hohmann, Union of Concerned

 Scientists ................................377

Amy Ochalski, American Lung Association .....381

Nadia Oehlsen, Sierra Club ..................383

Mary Fox, Concerned Citizen .................386

Grace Pai, Chicago Youth Climate Coalition ..387

Edward Warden, Chicago Youth Climate 

 Coalition .................................389

Craig Chrispell, Hoosier Energy .............391

Becky Schillo, Concerned Citizen ............396

Elizabeth Stark, National Wildlife

 Federation, Michigan Students 

 Sustainability Coalition ..................399

Angie Viands, Concerned Citizen .............403

Rose Gomez, Sierra Club .....................404

Elizabeth Uchiyama, Sierra Club .............406

John Phillips, Sierra Club ..................412

Jimmie Mitchell, Little River Band of Ottawa

 Indians ...................................415

Marie Socha, Concerned Citizen ..............419

Xhoana Ahmeti, Sierra Club, Chicago Youth

 Climate Coalition .........................421

Caty Bautista, Sierra Club ..................422

Rich Summins, Sierra Club ...................425

Kelly Mitchell, Concerned Citizen ...........429
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C O N T E N T S

 Page

Public Comments:

Brandon Bodar, Operation Free ...............433

Kathryn Norregaard, Evangelical Environmental

 Network ...................................439

Mike Johnson, Greenpeace ....................445

Margaret Goldstein, Concerned Citizen .......451

Jessica Bell, Concerned Citizen .............452

Allison Fisher, Concerned Citizen ...........454

Jack Gilroy, Sierra Club ....................457

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 MS. NOONAN: My name is Jenny Noonan, and 

3 I'm the Director of Policy Analysis and 

4 Communications in EPA's Office of Air Quality, 

5 Planning, and Standards. I will be chairing 

6 today's hearing.

7 Joining me on the panel are Christian 

8 Fellner, also with EPA's Office of Air Quality, 

9 Planning, and Standards in the Sector of Policies 

10 and Programs Division. And Donald Bruce is with 

11 EPA's Region 5 office.

12 We are here today to listen to your 

13 comments on EPA's Proposed Carbon Pollution 

14 Standards for New Power Plants. EPA published 

15 the proposed standards in the Federal Register on 

16 April 13th, 2012. This common sense step under 

17 the Clean Air Act would, for the first time, set 

18 national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 

19 that power plants built in the future can emit.

20 For future power plants EPA is proposing 

21 to set an output-based standard of 1,000 pounds

22 of carbon dioxide per megawatt hour. The 
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1 Agency's proposal does not apply to existing 

2 units or planned units that already have received 

3 permits and break ground within the next 12 

4 months. 

5 EPA's proposed standard reflects the 

6 ongoing trend in the power sector to build 

7 cleaner plants that take advantage of American8 made technologies. The proposal is flexible and 

9 would help minimize carbon pollution through the 

10 deployment of the same types of modern 

11 technologies that power companies are already 

12 using to build the next generation of power 

13 plants. EPA's proposal would ensure that this 

14 progress toward a cleaner, safer, and more modern 

15 power sector continues.

16 Today we will be accepting oral comments 

17 on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 

18 prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 

19 transcript will be available as part the official 

20 record for this rule. We are also accepting 

21 written comments on the proposed rule until June 

22 25th, 2012.
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1 At the registration area, which is 

2 located in the hallway outside of this room, 

3 there are handouts with detailed information for 

4 submitting written comments by mail, fax, or 

5 electronically. EPA will consider your comments 

6 as we move forward to complete a final rule.

7 Now let me describe the procedures for 

8 today's hearing. I will call the speakers to the 

9 table in pairs. When it is your turn to speak, 

10 please state your name and your affiliation 

11 before you begin your testimony. And it would 

12 help our court reporter if you would also spell 

13 your name.

14 In order to be fair to everyone, we will 

15 limit your testimony to five minutes each; and we 

16 ask that you remain at the table until both 

17 speakers in the pair have finished. After you 

18 finish your testimony, members of the panel may 

19 ask you a clarifying question or two.

20 If, in addition to the transcript of your 

21 testimony, you would also like us to put a full 

22 text of your comments into the docket, please be 
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1 sure to give a copy of any written comments to 

2 our staff -- again, at the registration table.

3 We have a time-keeping system consisting 

4 of red, yellow, and green lights to help keep 

5 track of your five minutes to speak. Before you 

6 begin speaking the green light will come on. The 

7 yellow light will signal that you have one minute 

8 left to speak. When the red light comes on, five 

9 minutes have past and I will ask you to please 

10 complete your testimony.

11 Today's hearing is scheduled from 8:30 

12 a.m. and will continue until 8:00 p.m. or later, 

13 if necessary, depending on the number of 

14 speakers. The hearing will recess during the 

15 scheduled lunch break from 12:00 to 1:00 and a 

16 dinner break from 4:30 to 5:30 p.m. We will 

17 reconvene promptly at 1:00 p.m. and 5:30 p.m., 

18 respectively.

19 If you would like to testify but have not 

20 yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 

21 registration table in the hallway outside of this 

22 room. For those who have already registered to 
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1 speak, we have tried to accommodate your requests 

2 for specific time slots. We ask your patience as 

3 we proceed through the list of speakers. We may 

4 need to make some adjustments as the day 

5 progresses.

6 If you have any questions that arise 

7 through the day, please see a staff member at the 

8 registration table for assistance.

9 Again, thank you all for participating 

10 today. Let's get started.

11 The first two speakers for the morning 

12 are Claire Butterfield and Beth Wallace. Please 

13 come to the table.

14 And, Ms. Butterfield, would you like to 

15 start?

16 MS. BUTTERFIELD: Thank you.

17 Good morning. I'm Reverend Claire 

18 Butterfield, the Executive Director of Faith in 

19 Place and the Illinois Interfaith Power and Light 

20 Campaign.

21 First of all, I want to thank you for 

22 holding this public hearing on the proposed CO2
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1 pollution standards for new power plants. I 

2 believe the standards you've announced are more 

3 than a reasonable response to the Supreme Court's 

4 instruction that you take steps to regulate a 

5 pollutant that we now know beyond any question is 

6 harmful to humans and other living things.

7 I know you will hear testimony from 

8 experts today in the fields of public health and 

9 environmental science on how important this is. 

10 I'm here today as a minister and as the Director 

11 of Illinois Interfaith Power and Light Campaign 

12 and Faith in Place. Faith in Place and our 

13 campaign work with over 900 congregations in 

14 Illinois to help people of all faiths become 

15 better stewards of creation because all our faith 

16 teach us that we must take care of this beautiful 

17 planet. Every faith teaches this in different 

18 ways, but they all speak to the need for us to be 

19 careful stewards of this extraordinary gift of 

20 being here at all.

21 And we are part of the Interfaith Power 

22 and Light Coalition nationally, which involves 
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1 14,000 congregations in this called-for 

2 stewardship in 38 states. Many of our partner 

3 congregations are taking steps themselves to 

4 address climate change by reducing their energy 

5 consumption. The Mosque Foundation in Bridgeview 

6 has installed a solar thermal system to heat the 

7 water they use to wash for Friday prayers, making 

8 them the first solar mosque in the nation.

9 Our friends at the Jewish 

10 Reconstructionist Congregation in Evanston built 

11 the first platinum LEED graded worship space in 

12 the country.

13 The Euclid Avenue United Methodist Church 

14 in Oak Park retrofitted their heating system to 

15 go geothermal. And while they had their parking 

16 lot dug up anyway for the well field, they 

17 retrofitted it with a permeable surface. For the 

18 climate change we don't manage to prevent, that 

19 will help when the heavy rains come.

20 St. Matthew Lutheran Church in Urbana 

21 converted a five-acre field to a community22 supported agriculture farm. The Sola Gratia CSA 
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1 making them the only church I know of with a 

2 farmer on their payroll.

3 And these examples are inspiring. They 

4 inspire us at Faith of Place, but we all know 

5 that steps like these are too small to impact an 

6 issue as big as climate change. We need more 

7 than individual action. We need policies that go 

8 across the economy as a whole.

9 I'm also here today to support you and to 

10 speak to you as a human, a mother, and someone 

11 who grew up in a part of Illinois which has coal 

12 beneath it. I recently took part in a tour of 

13 the mining areas of central Illinois with a group 

14 of clergy. We stood at the base of the slurry 

15 impoundments, and we thought about what would 

16 happen to the rivers of our state and our farm 

17 fields if those impoundment walls break and the 

18 billions of gallons behind them spill out.

19 We also watched the prairie winds blow 

20 across piles of coal ash, the final remnant of 

21 coal burn for electricity which is being disposed 

22 of back at the mine sites by the acre. This 
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1 mining goes on in proximity to our water and our 

2 food because of the demand for coal. When we 

3 burn that coal, which is after all nature's own 

4 carbon sink, we are also releasing tons of carbon 

5 into the atmosphere. 

6 We've heard a lot over the last 13 years 

7 that I've been in this work about how to describe 

8 the impacts of carbon pollution from industrial 

9 sources on the climate of the earth. The biggest 

10 single source of this pollution is our fleet of 

11 old coal-fired plants. As a person if faith, I 

12 think we should just tell the truth about them, 

13 that they will disrupt natural systems and may 

14 soon push the earth beyond its resilient 

15 capacity.

16 We're already seeing impacts on 

17 agriculture. Our harvest two years ago was the 

18 latest ever recorded. Last year there was hardly 

19 any winter, so pests that should be killed by 

20 freezing are probably here in greater number this 

21 year. The rain patterns have become erratic with 

22 ferocious storms followed by dry weather.
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1 I grew up among farmers, so this matters 

2 to me; but we all know the joy of that first ripe 

3 peach in summer, the way it bursts and the juice 

4 runs down our chins. And that won't happen this 

5 year in the Midwest.

6 Too many disruptions year after year in 

7 the last decade have happened for us not to be 

8 looking at greenhouse gas concentrations as a 

9 cause. This is the beginning of the altered 

10 world, a world of less joy and less beauty, and a 

11 world of more suffering, not just for our 

12 farmers. The floods and famines that climate 

13 change will trigger among the millions in the 

14 world who live in poverty are an injustice that 

15 could be prevented.

16 Your regulations are a first step in 

17 addressing this and a hopeful one. People of 

18 faith are united with me today to thank you for 

19 making it.

20 MS. NOONAN: Ms. Wallace?

21 MS. WALLACE: Good morning. Thank you.

22 Beth, B-E-T-H, W-A-L-L-A-C-E.
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1 I thank you for the opportunity to speak 

2 today. I am with the National Wildlife 

3 Federation, and I'm the Community Outreach 

4 Regional Coordinator, and I work on conservation 

5 issues within our Great Lakes basin.

6 I am also proud to say I am a new mom of 

7 a five month little boy. His name is Regan, and 

8 being a mom is one of the best thrills in the 

9 world. However, as a new mom, I am face with so 

10 many new fears. I worry about pesticides in the 

11 fruit that we eat, if the water is safe to drink. 

12 And one of my biggest fears -- and it's something 

13 I think about daily is if air that we breathing 

14 safe.

15 I also worry about the future of our 

16 resources and wildlife and how Regan will 

17 experience the great outdoors as he grows up. I 

18 fear that if we keep on this path, he might not 

19 be able to spend summers along the Great Lakes 

20 due to beach closings, or he won't be able to 

21 take a weekend fishing trip with his dad and 

22 actually eat the fish that he catches. 
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1 Uncontrolled carbon pollution that causes climate 

2 change -- it also causes toxic mercury emissions 

3 and numerous other air toxins still pose a 

4 serious threat to people and the wildlife.

5 Power plants are the nation's single 

6 largest source of climate change causing air 

7 pollution, pumping roughly 2.4 billion tons of 

8 carbon dioxide into the air each year.

9 Currently there are no limits on the 

10 amount of carbon pollution that can be released 

11 from power plants' smokestacks, and this air 

12 pollution results in higher average temperatures, 

13 extreme weather, serious impacts on, of course, 

14 public health and impacts to wildlife.

15 Scientists predict that if the 

16 temperatures increase as much as forecasted, we 

17 could lose as many as 40 percent of the species 

18 on the planet. But the fact is fish and wildlife 

19 are already being impacted by the small increases 

20 in temperature we've already had.

21 Safeguarding our natural resources is 

22 important to those of us who want our children to 
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1 grow up being able to fish and spend time 

2 outdoors; but it is also a wise investment in our 

3 economy and future. Reducing industrial carbon 

4 pollution will help impact our longstanding 

5 investment in our outdoor heritage.

6 Michigan wildlife and natural resources 

7 is the backbone of our $5 billion recreation 

8 tourism economy. The Great Lakes are a national 

9 treasure.

10 It is misleading to say that enforcement 

11 of national -- a nation that's barren of laws is 

12 bad for the economy and employment. It is not. 

13 We should never have to choose between a job and 

14 a healthy environment. We are entitled to both. 

15 Americans are no less entitled to a safe, clean 

16 environment during difficult economic times than 

17 they are a more prosperous economy.

18 Taking action to reduce carbon pollution 

19 and confront our climate crisis is essential for 

20 safeguarding our wildlife and our outdoor 

21 heritage. By utilizing our environmental laws we 

22 can help rid the air and water of harmful 
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1 pollutants and restore health to our ecosystem.

2 I strongly urge the EPA and Congress to 

3 move forward with finalizing carbon air pollution 

4 standards and ensuring a healthy outdoor legacy 

5 for my son and future generations. Now and in 

6 the future the EPA and other federal and state 

7 environmental laws can help ensure that the 

8 legacy we leave our children is a clean and 

9 healthy planet.

10 Thank you.

11 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

12 Our next two speakers will be Mikka 

13 McCracken and Myriam Renaud.

14 MS. McCRACKEN: Good morning.

15 MS. NOONAN: Good morning.

16 MS. McCRACKEN: My name is Mikka 

17 McCracken. It's a little tricky. M-I-K-K-A. 

18 Last name is McCracken, M-C-C-R-A-C-K-E-N. It's 

19 kind of catchy. So, my name is Mikka McCracken, 

20 and I represent the Evangelical Lutheran Church 

21 in America, based here in Chicago, and the 

22 National Council of Churches USA.
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1 The Evangelical Lutheran Church in 

2 America, also known as the ELCA, is the largest 

3 Lutheran denomination in the United States, with 

4 more than 10,000 congregations and 4.2 million 

5 members. As a church we're part of the National 

6 Council of Churches, which is a group of 37 

7 Christian denominations with over 100,000 

8 congregations and over 45 million people.

9 Specifically, I serve as a program 

10 director with ELCA World Hunger and Disaster 

11 Response. Every year these related ministries 

12 mobilize about $30 million and countless 

13 congregational leaders to make a difference in 

14 the lives of families and communities in more 

15 than 50 countries, including the United States.

16 As people of faith, we're called to serve 

17 as stewards of God's good creation and to seek 

18 justice for those who are hungry, poor, and 

19 marginalized. With that call in mind, we speak 

20 in support, and we're particularly thankful for 

21 two parts of the proposal before us today.

22 First, we appreciate that the analysis 
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1 shows no increase in the price of electricity as 

2 a result of the proposal. It's an important 

3 piece that will protect families and communities 

4 as they work to recover from the economic 

5 downturn.

6 Second, the proposed rule will diminish 

7 carbon output for future power plants. And 

8 studies, of course, have linked carbon dioxide 

9 emissions to increased respiratory illness among 

10 children -- we heard the concern of the mother 

11 just now -- the elderly, people of color, and 

12 people living in poverty. The proposed standard 

13 will really mean hope for better health among the 

14 vulnerable.

15 Carbon dioxide also contributes to global 

16 climate change, and we, at ELAC World Hunger, 

17 know that climate change has already begun to 

18 affect agriculture in the United States and 

19 around the world. That it endangers food 

20 security for people in our nation and all members 

21 of the global family.

22 As climate change continues, our work to 
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1 end hunger and extreme poverty will become more 

2 necessary and more challenging. If you remember 

3 anything from my time today, I hope that you 

4 remember that Lutherans care and Lutherans make a 

5 difference. Lutherans offered the first cups of 

6 water to drought-fleeing refugees at the Dadaab 

7 refugee camp in Kenya. That camp is the largest 

8 refugee camp, and it's managed by Lutherans. And 

9 through our social service agencies we reach 1 in 

10 every 50 Americans each year, which includes 

11 hospital and medical systems.

12 We can't do this alone. With the EPA, 

13 with your systemic level help to enact these 

14 rules that would reduce carbon emissions we can 

15 do more together, and we really appreciate that.

16 In the words of Psalm 100, verse 5, for 

17 the Lord is good, the Lord's steadfast love 

18 endures forever, and the Lord's faithfulness to 

19 all generations. By ensuring that future power 

20 plants will have reduced carbon footprints you 

21 will help protect the most vulnerable and care 

22 for God's creation for generations to come. We 
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1 encourage you to enact the strongest rule 

2 possible.

3 Thank you for your service and for the 

4 opportunity to speak with you on behalf of the 

5 ELCA and the National Council of Churches.

6 MS. RENAUD: My name is Myriam Renaud, M7 Y-R-I-A-M, R-E-N-A-U-D. I'm a minister 

8 representing myself.

9 Ralph Waldo Emerson, who was like me, a 

10 Unitarian minister, once said that nature never 

11 wears a mean appearance. In his essay Nature

12 Emerson described the earth as a green ball which 

13 floats us human beings through the heavens, 

14 offering steady and prodigal provision for our 

15 support and delight. What angels, he asked, 

16 invented this ocean of air above, this ocean of 

17 water beneath, this firmament of earth between. 

18 The earth, the water, and air, he wrote, are 

19 splendid ornaments, rich conveniences. The air, 

20 he wrote, is a cordial of incredible virtue.

21 What the Clean Air Act recognized was 

22 that while this ocean of air above invented by 
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1 angels seems never to wear a mean appearance, 

2 it's appearance can be deceiving. The air may 

3 seem like a cordial of incredible virtue, but 

4 when the air next to coal and oil-fired plants is 

5 tested, it is shown to carry mercury and toxic 

6 particulate matter.

7 Here, in Chicago, we've learned the hard 

8 way about the cost of having two of the nation's 

9 oldest and dirtiest coal power plants in our city 

10 limits. We've learned that the mercury and toxic 

11 particulate matter that these plants spew into 

12 the air make asthma worse, increase rates of 

13 heart attacks, and cause other illnesses. We've 

14 learned that these plants are especially noxious 

15 to the elderly and to our children.

16 Here in Chicago the air is not a splendid 

17 ornament or rich convenience. It is poisoned. 

18 Chicagoans, especially those who live near the 

19 two coal power plants have become afraid to 

20 breathe. Afraid to breathe. Afraid to breathe 

21 from the ocean of air above, created a steady and 

22 prodigal provision for our support and delight. 
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1 What to do?

2 I also am a mother. I have a 13-year-old 

3 daughter. She enjoys many of the benefits that 

4 come with living in a big city, as I do, as does 

5 my husband. Chicago is our home, so a conundrum. 

6 Do we leave Chicago for an area with cleaner air, 

7 or do we stay in Chicago knowing that this 

8 decision may impact our health in a negative way?

9 For more than 10 years residents of this 

10 city have asked for improved air quality, and 

11 help has finally come. It came in December of 

12 last year. It came in the form of stricter 

13 federal regulations about what power plants may 

14 pump into the air that we all share. It came in 

15 the form of the mass regulation. Thanks to this 

16 regulation plants are now about to close those 

17 coal power plants within our city limits. This 

18 regulation has already gone a long way to 

19 restoring our trust that the air we breathe will 

20 not hide a mean appearance.

21 While the people of Chicago will soon 

22 have healthier to breath we celebrate the fact 
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1 that beyond our city limits other communities, 

2 other Americans, will also benefit from strict 

3 controls on air quality.

4 And I also will quote a Psalm, Psalm 79, 

5 which basically says this: Dear God, we have 

6 made a mess, but we are your hands in the world. 

7 We give thanks for life. We will repair all we 

8 have made waste. 

9 Indeed, thanks to the Clean Air Act, and 

10 to the EPA, and to MACT we will begin to repair 

11 the air to which we have laid waste. Our hope is 

12 restored for a day when with every breath we take 

13 we will enjoy a cordial of incredible virtue.

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Our next 

15 speakers Peter M. Iwanowicz -- sorry if I'm 

16 mangling names.

17 MR. IWANOWICZ: No, that's right.

18 MS. NOONAN: Great. And Jean Sideris?

19 MS. SIDERIS: Yes.

20 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Please come to the 

21 table.

22 MR. IWANOWICZ: Me first?
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1 MS. NOONAN: Sure. Go ahead.

2 MR. IWANOWICZ: Good morning. My name is 

3 Peter Iwanowicz. Last name is spelled I-W-A-N-O4 W-I-C-Z. I am Assistant Vice-President with the 

5 American Lung Association, and I am pleased to 

6 provide testimony in support of the Environmental 

7 Protection Agency's proposed power plant carbon 

8 pollution standard.

9 The standard is historic in that it sets 

10 the first national standard for power plant and 

11 carbon pollution. The standard is equally 

12 important because it represents the next step in 

13 what is needed to address pollution of power 

14 plants.

15 Power plant pollution kills and it can 

16 make people sick. Enforcing the clean air 

17 protection such as the EPA's Cross-State Air 

18 Pollution Rule which we call the secondhand smog 

19 rule and the power plant Mercury and Air Toxic 

20 standards will dramatically improve public 

21 health.

22 By proposing standards for carbon 
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1 pollution from new facilities the EPA is setting 

2 the stage for the next generation of America's 

3 power plants to be the least toxic and most 

4 modern in the world. Doing anything less 

5 shortchanges our children's health and future 

6 generations.

7 Today you will hear the tremendous 

8 support that this rule has with the public. More 

9 than one million comments in support of the rule 

10 have come in since early April. I am told that 

11 this is the most comments that EPA has ever 

12 received on a rule, and there is still a month 

13 left before the comment period closes.

14 This affirms the support that, we at the 

15 American Lung Association, have found in recent 

16 poll of voters. According to our bipartisan 

17 survey, voters strongly support EPA's efforts to 

18 update clean air protections. An astounding 72 

19 percent of voters in this country surveyed 

20 specifically want EPA to set limits on power 

21 plant carbon pollution. How often do you get 

22 three-quarters of the population in this country 
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1 supporting something? Seventy-two percent of 

2 voters want limits on carbon pollution of power 

3 plants.

4 Also, we found that the public doesn’t 

5 buy into the industry's false choice that we must 

6 choose between public health and a strong 

7 economy. According to the same poll that we 

8 conducted, nearly three-quarters of voters say 

9 that we do not have to choose between an air 

10 quality and strong economy. We can achieve both.

11 And a 2 to 1 majority, 60 to 31 percent, believes 

12 that strengthening safeguards against pollution 

13 will create, not destroy, jobs by encouraging 

14 innovation.

15 But numbers and polling information 

16 cannot speak for the people who we have met 

17 during the past year who are getting a lot more 

18 involved in our fight for air. I want to tell 

19 you a little bit about some of the folks I've met 

20 in the last year.

21 First, myself. I'm a dad. I live in 

22 upstate New York with my wife and two children. 
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1 And I work out of the National ALA office in 

2 Washington, D.C. They know that when I leave 

3 home each week that I'm fighting to make the air 

4 healthy and to make future generations brighter. 

5 And they know that when I return home each week I 

6 will have met another person that is in need of 

7 clean air and has joined the fight as well. 

8 This week I met Judy -- just yesterday 

9 here in Chicago. She had a double lung 

10 transplant three years ago. She understands the 

11 value of every breath she takes and wants each 

12 one to be with air that is cleaner than it is 

13 now. Let's stand up for Judy today. 

14 Jake is a friend I met last June in mid 

15 Maine. His dad calls him the canary in the coal 

16 mine because Jake's asthma gets worse even before 

17 a bad-air day is declared by the state. He knows 

18 what cleaner air will mean to his son and all the 

19 other kids with asthma. Remember, there are no 

20 coal-fired power plants in Maine. They breathe 

21 in a lot of what we call second-hand smog. So 

22 let's stand up for kids like Jake.
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1 Pam, a mom from Philadelphia, lost her 

2 son to an asthma attack and knows that polluted 

3 air made it tougher for him to manage his 

4 disease. She does not want others to have to go 

5 through the pain of losing a child to asthma. 

6 It's not the total solution, but clean air will 

7 make it a heck of a lot easier for children with 

8 asthma and their parents to manage the disease. 

9 So let's stand up for Pam.

10 Last fall I met former football great, 

11 Ickey Woods of the Cincinnati Bengals and Chandra 

12 Woods. They lost their son, Javonte Woods, in 

13 August of 2010. His fatal asthma attack occurred 

14 during a time when air in Cincinnati was 

15 particularly bad. They wish they knew then what 

16 they know now about dirty air and asthma. So 

17 they're joining us in fighting for clean air. So 

18 let's stand up for the Woods family.

19 And, finally, there are 6.4 million 

20 children with asthma in this country. 2.5 

21 million of them live in a county that fails the 

22 American Lung Association's State of the Air 2012 
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1 Report for Ozone. This is unacceptable. We all 

2 need clean air to breathe.

3 We are pleased that EPA is moving forward 

4 on carbon pollution from power plants. We urge 

5 you to finalize the rule before the end of the 

6 year and to propose one for existing sources as 

7 well.

8 Thank you for your attention.

9 MS. SIDERIS: Hi there. Thank you for 

10 the opportunity to testify today in support of 

11 the EPA's power plant carbon standard. My name 

12 is Jean Sideris, and I work with the Union of 

13 Concerned Scientists. 

14 UCS is the nation's leading science-based 

15 non-profit working for a health environment and 

16 safer world. I here on behalf of UCS' more than 

17 350,000 supporters and a network of more than 

18 18,000 scientists to show strong support for the 

19 EPA's efforts to reduce carbon emissions from 

20 coal and oil-fired power plants under the Clean 

21 Air Act.

22 The EPA's actions are grounded in 
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1 science. The threat posed by unchecked climate 

2 change has been clearly articulated by numerous 

3 national and international scientific 

4 organizations, including the U.S. National 

5 Academy of Sciences. 

6 If we fail to make deep reductions in 

7 carbon emissions, we will greatly increase the 

8 risk of serious economic public health and 

9 environmental consequences, including sea level 

10 rise, extreme weather events, increased risks of 

11 asthma and heat stress, a strain on water 

12 resources, and the loss or degradation of vital 

13 ecosystems.

14 Today I would like to talk about the 

15 public health risk. I have with me today a 

16 letter signed by 356 physicians, registered or 

17 advanced practice nurses, and public health 

18 experts with an M.S., Ph.D., or MPH. The letter, 

19 an open letter from health professionals in 

20 support of the Clean Air Act and the 

21 Environmental Protection Agency, urges U.S. 

22 policymakers to support EPA's ability under the 
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1 Clean Air Act to take action that will protect 

2 public health and address climate change.

3 The letter includes endorsers from 48 

4 states and the District of Columbia. It calls 

5 attention to the professional organizations that 

6 have already pointed out the health impacts of 

7 climate change: The American Medical 

8 Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, 

9 American Nursing Association, and the American 

10 Public Health Association to name a few.

11 The most likely health impacts in the 

12 U.S. include heat-related illness, waterborne 

13 disease, and mental health impacts from coping 

14 with the extreme weather. The most vulnerable 

15 populations are children, the elderly, and the 

16 poor. 

17 The Clean Air Act has a long history of 

18 protecting public health. In 2010 alone, the 

19 science-based Clean Air act prevented an 

20 estimated 160,000 premature deaths and millions 

21 of cases of respiratory and cardiovascular 

22 disease. These annual benefits are projected to 
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1 grow in the next decade.

2 We believe that the EPA's draft proposal 

3 to limit carbon emissions from new power plants 

4 is an important first step to putting our nation 

5 on a path to reducing (unintelligible) emissions 

6 and avoiding the most catastrophic impacts of 

7 climate change.

8 Setting an ambitious but achievable 

9 standard that is applied uniformly to all fossil10 fuel power plants will help ensure a transition 

11 to cleaner generation of sources over time.

12 Of course, these standards for new power 

13 plants are not enough to address the threat of 

14 climate change. Reducing emissions from the 

15 power sector requires that we also set standards 

16 for the existing fleet of power plants. Now that 

17 the EPA has moved to regulate emissions from new 

18 power plants, it must move quickly to regulate 

19 emissions from existing.

20 Ultimately, other forms of strong action 

21 will be required to achieve the full scale of 

22 deep reductions needed to reduce or avoid some of 
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1 the worst impacts of climate change. But today 

2 these are the very necessary and important first 

3 steps.

4 We thank the EPA for taking this first 

5 step and look forward to continued action to 

6 address the climate challenge.

7 MS. NOONAN: And the letter that you 

8 reference, you are going to enter into the 

9 record?

10 MS. SIDERIS: I have that. Yes.

11 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you.

12 MR. FELLNER: I just have one clarifying 

13 question. When you say move quickly, do you have 

14 an idea on the time frame? Because that could 

15 mean different things to different people.

16 MS. SIDERIS: Yes. We would like to see 

17 this rule finalized this year and --

18 MR. FELLNER: Okay.

19 MS. SIDERIS: -- existing started this 

20 year.

21 MR. FELLNER: Okay. Thank you.

22 MS. NOONAN: Okay, our next two 
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1 panelists, Randy Juras and Dr. Josephine Lejia --

2 Dr. Joseph Lejia, L-E-J-I-A? I'm sure I'm 

3 totally mangling that, and I apologize.

4 [No response.]

5 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Then Dan Dulan6 Laughlin?

7 MR. DOLAN-LAUGHLIN: That was close.

8 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Please correct me.

9 MR. DOLAN-LAUGHLIN: It's Dolan-Laughlin.

10 MS. NOONAN: Dolan-Laughlin. Okay. 

11 Thank you.

12 Okay. Please begin.

13 MR. : Hello, my name is Randy Juras, R14 A-N-D-Y, last name J-U-R-A-S. I live at 14351 

15 South Oak Trail in Homer Glen, Illinois.

16 I appreciate the opportunity to speak 

17 today about the EPA's standards regarding new 

18 fossil-fuel-fired electric power plants. As 

19 someone who cares about the environment and 

20 actually lives close to pollution sources, I know 

21 it is not safe. I also know that this is one of 

22 the few opportunities that average American can 
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1 get to voice their concerns and feelings.

2 In my case my elected representative, 

3 Judy Biggert has not shared any of the same views 

4 that I have for my environment. For her the 

5 economic interests of the businesses in our 

6 district have always come first. She has put 

7 profits ahead of the environment every time. So 

8 this is the best chance I have at making my 

9 thoughts known in Washington.

10 In Homer Glen the prevailing wind is from 

11 the west. Straight west from where I live, only 

12 about a mile or two, Midwest Generation, Will 

13 County Station is located. If you look south 

14 from 135th Street, just over the river, you can 

15 clearly see the coal pile and the power plant. 

16 The plant itself is old and, therefore, it has 

17 none of those scrubbers or other air pollution 

18 reduction devices. 

19 While Midwest Generation has done a few 

20 things in the last few years, they have simply 

21 taken poke and fixes driven by lawsuits against 

22 them. A spokesman for the plant said that they 
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1 were targeted unfairly. I have trouble with that 

2 statement. How can you be targeted unfairly for 

3 polluting? The toxic fumes such as soot, heavy 

4 metals, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen dioxide are 

5 coming from your plant and drifting over polluted 

6 areas. Why would you not expect the residents to 

7 be upset? Do you honestly think that these 

8 people are actually not concerned about this 

9 condition?

10 That is not all. Directly north of this 

11 coal-burning plant are a series of refineries. 

12 Driving along New Avenue you can literally smell 

13 the pollution. So along with the toxic fumes 

14 coming from Midwest Generation coal plant, we 

15 have the refinery pollution as well. 

16 Yet the story does not end. At 143rd and 

17 Bell construction of the Heritage Crossing 

18 Industrial Park is underway. When completed 

19 there will be 220 acres of light industry and 

20 distribution in operation. Tens of thousands of 

21 diesel engine trucks will be driving in and out 

22 of that industrial park each and every year. The 
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1 toxic fumes from that pouring from those engines 

2 will mix with the already present pollution 

3 coming from Midwest Generation coal-fired power 

4 plant and those refineries.

5 Two coal-fired plants in Chicago are 

6 closing down. These two plants should have been 

7 shuttered years ago, but that did not happen. 

8 For many years these plants operated very 

9 cheaply. Token fixes were added but only after 

10 they were forced to do so, which brings us to 

11 this hearing.

12 Finally, the EPA has the opportunity to 

13 do something about the largest source of 

14 pollution coming from generating electric power. 

15 The EPA can do what the electrical power 

16 generating industry is not willing to do.

17 Without setting up national standards 

18 defining how much pollution is allowed, the 

19 industry will simply not punish themselves. As 

20 history clearly shows, corporations are driven by 

21 profits. If these proposed new fossil-fueled 

22 power plants are now required by law to reduce 
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1 these toxic pollutants they emit, they simply 

2 will not do it.

3 If anything, the EPA should have the 

4 ability to go back into those older plants and 

5 require them to clean up their operations. As I 

6 have pointed out, these fossil-fuel-burning 

7 plants are not the only source of pollution. In 

8 way too many cases they are part of a complex 

9 situation which creates high concentrations of 

10 pollution in urban areas. We need to start 

11 taking the environment seriously.

12 Thank you for allowing me to speak.

13 MR. DOLAN-LAUGHLIN: I'm going to take 

14 this off because this is like having a 

15 conversation through a bath towel. 

16 Good morning. My name is Daniel M. 

17 Dolan-Laughlin. I am appearing here today to 

18 testify how pollution controls like the carbon 

19 pollution limits that EPA is proposing today 

20 impact millions of people who suffer from 

21 respiratory illnesses. Although I am not a 

22 scientist nor a doctor, I am someone who has 
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1 suffered nearly fatally from COPD. I am someone 

2 who received a double-lung transplant of over six 

3 months ago, and someone for whom pollution 

4 control still and will mean the difference 

5 between life and death for the rest of my life.

6 I suffered from Chronic Obstructive 

7 Pulmonary Disease or COPD for decades. As the 

8 disease progressed, I could no longer work. My 

9 quality of life declined, slowly at first, then 

10 more rapidly as I approached end stage. I 

11 required round the clock oxygen therapy to 

12 perform even basic functions.

13 Eventually I wound up in the hospital 

14 with end stage COPD. My doctor told me the words 

15 that no one is ever really prepared to hear or 

16 wants to hear, that I only had several days to 

17 live without having mechanical support, a 

18 ventilator or the like, which I ended up with.

19 And yet a miracle occurred at that point. 

20 Through organ donation, a miracle organ donation, 

21 I was given the gift of life and hope and a 

22 healthy new pair of lungs. Even with this life-
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1 changing gift, I must still be very vigilant 

2 about pollution levels. Poor air quality during 

3 high ozone days forces me to stay indoors. 

4 Pollution literally makes me sick. I depend on 

5 healthy air to breathe and to live. And there 

6 are many, many, many others who depend on it, 

7 too, like I do.

8 And I'm not here today simply to talk 

9 about my own battle for healthy air. I'm here as 

10 an advocate for everyone with lung diseases. 

11 Asthma sufferers, COPD patients, and others rely 

12 on pollution controls to simply get through 

13 another day. Lung disease impacts young people, 

14 old people, rich, poor. And all over the country 

15 every one of them deserves a right to breathe 

16 healthy air.

17 On behalf of these people I support EPA's 

18 limits on carbon pollution from new power plants. 

19 By you having the courage to implement this rule, 

20 you will reduce carbon pollution and smog that 

21 threatens millions of people like me every day.

22 Carbon pollution builds up in the 
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1 atmosphere, and scientists believe that this --

2 as this rapidly grows, it will increase 

3 temperatures leading to formation of ground level 

4 ozone or smog. Breathing in ozone causes 

5 problems of all kinds for all kinds of people, 

6 not just the ones with COPD. It can cause 

7 wheezing. It can cause and aggravate asthma 

8 attacks and COPD exacerbations which are flare9 ups of the lungs which require costly 

10 hospitalizations.

11 Children who inhale ozone have a higher 

12 chance of developing lung diseases or reduced 

13 lung functions as they become adults. And since 

14 power plants are one of the largest single 

15 sources of carbon pollution, it is only right 

16 that the EPA impose this standard.

17 Although I strongly support the EPA's 

18 power plant carbon pollution limits, I'd like 

19 these limits to be enforced also on existing 

20 power plants, not just the new ones. There are 

21 more than 5,000 existing power plants spewing 

22 carbon and other pollutants into our atmosphere 
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1 on a daily basis. Most of these existing power 

2 plants are fueled by coal. A single coal-fired 

3 power plant released an average 3.7 million tons 

4 of carbon pollution. Imagine the impact on our 

5 580 existing coal-fired plants. It's going to 

6 have a terrible affect on the next generation. 

7 We cannot ignore the impact of carbon pollution 

8 from these existing power plants.

9 The current rule not only exempts 

10 existing power plants but it ignores the fact 

11 that they can and will likely continue to pollute 

12 the air for future generations. Unlike COPD, 

13 there is no identified end stage for our power 

14 plant.

15 In Illinois the Wood River power plant 

16 has been operating since 1948, and that is by no 

17 means a record. There's a power plant in Indiana 

18 that's been running since 1903. Existing power 

19 plants aren't disappearing, and they certainly 

20 should be included in the carbon pollution 

21 limits.

22 Every day I wake up with a miraculous 
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1 gift, a set of health new lungs and life. I 

2 cannot take my gift of new lungs for granted, and 

3 I urge that the EPA not take it for granted 

4 either. I urge you to implement this rule and to 

5 get to work on carbon pollution standards for 

6 existing power plants also.

7 Thank you very much for your time, and 

8 thank you for your attention.

9 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

10 MR. BRUCE: Good luck.

11 MS. NOONAN: I'm going to try this name 

12 again, and I apologize if I continue to mangle 

13 it. Dr. Joseph L-E-J-I-A?

14 [No response.]

15 MS. NOONAN: Okay. We'll move on. Ms.

16 Wanda Martin-Terry and J. Drake Hamilton, please?

17 And if you could, repeat your name and 

18 spell it for the record, please.

19 MS. MARTIN-TERRY: Hi, I'm --

20 MS. NOONAN: Your name and spell it.

21 MS. MARTIN-TERRY: Okay. Wanda Martin22 Terry, W-A-N-D-A, M-A-R-T-I-N, hyphen, T-E-R-R-Y.
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1 Thank you. Good morning. My name is 

2 Wanda Martin-Terry, and I am a Chicago resident 

3 and very concerned about air pollution and its 

4 affect on lung health. Last year I became a 

5 member of the local leadership board of the 

6 American Lung Association in Greater Chicago due 

7 to my passion for educating the community on an 

8 illness that once consumed my father. Over 30 

9 years ago my father passed away from lung cancer. 

10 To provide for our family he worked as a janitor 

11 at a company in Chicago that produced chemicals 

12 for oven cleaners and floor wax. Every day he 

13 would breathe in these chemicals, and in 1972 he 

14 was diagnosed with lung disease.

15 I watched my father's illness debilitate 

16 him so much that he was unable to give me away at 

17 my wedding. My father's passing has forever 

18 changed my life, and it gives me a voice to 

19 spread the word and ensure that there is 

20 awareness about lung disease and how it can be 

21 prevented.

22 Today I'm here to testify in strong 
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1 support of the EPA's proposed ruling limiting 

2 carbon pollution from power plants. The public 

3 should not have to breathe in pollution.

4 In 2009 your agency determined that 

5 greenhouse gas pollution threatens Americans' 

6 health and welfare by leading to long-lasting 

7 changes in our climate that can have a range of 

8 negative effects on human health and the 

9 environment.

10 We need to protect our children and our 

11 grandchildren. And by setting standards for 

12 future power plants, it will save lives and 

13 reduce disease. I heard some members of Congress 

14 are proposing changes to the Clean Air Act that 

15 could dismantle the progress made in the last 40 

16 years. Our nation must keep that law strong to 

17 continue to protect public health. 

18 Today we employ EPA to move ahead and to 

19 finalize this rule on or before the court order 

20 deadline of June 25th. Each day of delay harms 

21 health and it shortens lives.

22 Thank you.
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1 MS. HAMILTON: Good morning. I'm J. 

2 Drake Hamilton. J, period, Drake, D-R-A-K-E, 

3 Hamilton, H-A-M-I-L-T-O-N. 

4 Thank you for this opportunity to testify 

5 in support of the first ever carbon standards 

6 from new power plants. I serve as the Science 

7 Policy Director for Fresh Energy, which is a 

8 private, non-profit organization based in St. 

9 Paul, Minnesota, so a different part of this EPA 

10 region. 

11 Fresh Energy is 20 years old and has a 

12 strong track record of working on clean energy 

13 policy that builds our Midwestern economy and 

14 jobs around clean energy that also reduces carbon 

15 pollution and improves community health through 

16 better air and water quality. Our work helps 

17 build the market economy around the many dozens 

18 of solutions to climate change that also drive a 

19 thriving economy. Fresh Energy works across the 

20 State of Minnesota and in the upper Midwest 

21 region that is our marketplace. 

22 The vitality of Minnesota's economy and 
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1 our quality of life depends in many ways on the 

2 health of agriculture, our forests, lakes and 

3 waters, and the quality and supply of those 

4 waters. Iconic Minnesota species such as the 

5 loon, moose, boreal forest species, and walleye 

6 depend on climate; and all are threatened as the 

7 climate is changing. Minnesota is in a region 

8 that has witnessed many examples of the extreme 

9 water conditions driven by rapidly increasing 

10 concentrations of greenhouse gases in our 

11 atmosphere. 

12 Just one example but a very important 

13 one, heavy downpours, the very heavy rainfall 

14 events that are very expensive for communities 

15 and human life between 1958 and 2007 have 

16 increased by 31 percent in our region, the 

17 highest in the country. 

18 Minnesota's state climatologist has 

19 documented in one small area in southern 

20 Minnesota not one, not two, but three 1,000-year 

21 rainfall events in the last 10 years, some of 

22 them 17 inches of rain costing human lives.
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1 Our quality of life also depends on air 

2 quality. In Minnesota, as in other places, we 

3 feel the health impacts of our outdated 

4 dependence on dirty coal plants, but we don't pay 

5 those health costs on our energy bills. But we 

6 do see the costs of increasingly expensive coal 

7 on our energy bills. The price Minnesota paid 

8 for coal from other states -- we don't have any 

9 of our own -- increased by more than 100 percent 

10 since 2004, so more than doubled.

11 Minnesota is more tied to coal than the 

12 country as a whole, with 58 percent of our 

13 electricity generated from burning coal. In some 

14 parts of Minnesota utilities generate as much as 

15 95 percent of our electricity from burning coal. 

16 We know we need to make a transition to clean 

17 energy. And Minnesota has established state 

18 policies that help put us on a clean-energy path. 

19 Our renewable energy standard requiring 25 

20 percent of our electricity to come from renewable 

21 energy by the year 2025, for example, is working 

22 well. Today Minnesota is the number 4 state in 
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1 per capita wind generation. We get 13 percent of 

2 our power from the wind alone. And every utility 

3 in Minnesota is meeting the state's renewable 

4 energy standard. So we know that way forward 

5 works.

6 Minnesota's legislature in 2007 passed 

7 strong bipartisan legislation that included 

8 economy-wide science-based goals to reduce 

9 greenhouse emissions from 2005 levels by at least 

10 30 percent by 2025 and at least 80 percent by the 

11 year 2050. So Minnesota is beginning to see the 

12 economic clean air, water, and health benefits of 

13 those market-based policies.

14 To give you a sense of our partners and 

15 the folks in Minnesota who are already submitting 

16 comments to the Environmental Protection Agency 

17 in support of this rule, let me list some of the 

18 places and numbers of people who are discussing 

19 this standard. The Iron Range Earth Fest on 

20 Mountain Iron, Minnesota, on Minnesota's Iron 

21 Range, 1,200 people came during a snow storm to 

22 talk about carbon and environmental protection.
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1 At the state's largest environmental expo 

2 15,000 people in St. Paul, Minnesota, at the 

3 State Fairgrounds -- talk about icons -- came to 

4 the Living Green Expo and signed postcards in 

5 support of the carbon standard.

6 In communities in Minnesota from 

7 Cambridge to Bloomington, Edina to Fridley, Eden 

8 Prairie to Duluth, and across a swath of our 

9 lakes and forest country from Alexandria to 

10 Bemidjii, people are weighing in, and you will 

11 see those comments coming into the Environmental 

12 Protection Agency.

13 Fresh Energy's partners include the 

14 Minnesota Conservation Foundation, the Will 

15 Steger Foundation, Minnesota Interfaith Power and 

16 Light, and Minnesota 350.

17 Take a look around this room and around 

18 your own communities when you go home this 

19 evening. We are the healthiest, wealthiest, best 

20 educated generation in human history. We need to 

21 great things, and this is one of them. Fresh 

22 Energy urges the Environmental Protection Agency 
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1 to move forward and finalize this significant 

2 first step this year in reducing greenhouse gas 

3 emissions from new power plants and to move 

4 forward to set standards for emissions from 

5 existing power plants.

6 Thank you.

7 MS. NOONAN: I have one clarifying 

8 question. You had mentioned in your testimony 

9 the June 25th date, and that was the date for 

10 public comments to be submitted. Right?

11 MS. HAMILTON: Correct.

12 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Great. Thank you.

13 MS. HAMILTON: Thank you.

14 MS. NOONAN; Pamela Hardwicke, please, 

15 and Dr. Susan Buchanan, please.

16 MS. HARDWICKE: On behalf of the Clean 

17 Air Task Force I would like to offer comments on 

18 U.S. EPA's proposed 111(b) rule that will 

19 establish CO2 emission limits on new fossil power 

20 plants.

21 MS. NOONAN: I'm sorry to interrupt. Can 

22 you say your name and spell it into the 
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1 microphone?

2 MS. HARDWICKE: Oh, yes. Pamela 

3 Hardwicke, P-A-M-E-L-A, H-A-R-D-W-I-C-K-E.

4 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

5 MS. HARDWICKE: You're welcome.

6 On behalf of the Clean Air Task Force I 

7 would like to offer comments on U.S. EPA's 

8 proposed 111(b) rule that will establish CO2

9 emission limits on new fossil power plants. The 

10 Clean Air Task Force is an international, non11 profit environmental organization headquartered 

12 in Boston, Massachusetts, that operates 

13 throughout the United States and China.

14 CATF focuses on the key atmospheric air 

15 pollution issues of the 21st century. Greenhouse 

16 gas emissions that drive climate change and 

17 particulate matter link to premature death and 

18 disease. Our staff works extensively with 

19 companies in both the U.S. and China that develop 

20 advanced low-carbon technologies, including 

21 carbon capture and storage.

22 Carbon capture and storage is an 
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1 available technology that U.S. EPA can and should 

2 rely upon in establishing CO2 emission limits for 

3 new fossil fuel electrical generating units. In 

4 Kemper County, Mississippi, Plant Radcliffe is a 

5 new 582-megawatt coal power plant that is under 

6 construction. When it opens in 2014, the plant 

7 will capture 65 percent of its CO2 and sequester 

8 it deep underground. The CO2 emissions from this 

9 plant are estimated at 550 pounds per megawatt 

10 hour gross. 

11 In Odessa, Texas, the Texas Clean Energy 

12 Project is expected to break ground later this 

13 year. The 400-megawatt project will turn coal 

14 into base load power, fertilizer, and produce CO2

15 that will be sequestered deep underground.

16 TCEP will capture over 90 percent of the 

17 CO2 it would otherwise emit. The emission for 

18 this plant when it goes into operation in 2015 

19 will be 228 pound per megawatt hour gross.

20 Other projects that CCS are advancing as 

21 well. EPA is not limited to looking at EGU 

22 applications. Earlier this month the Indiana 
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1 Department of Environmental Management filed an 

2 air permit with U.S. EPA Region 5 for the Indiana 

3 Gasification, LLC, project in Rockport. While 

4 this project is not intended to produce 

5 significant electricity generation, it will turn 

6 coal into natural gas, and the permit requires 

7 CCS. The plant will capture at least 80 percent 

8 of the CO2 that would otherwise be emitted. The 

9 liquefied CO2 from the plant will be sequestered 

10 deep underground and thereby permanently isolated 

11 from the atmosphere.

12 While these projects are new, it's 

13 important to emphasize that the components of CCS

14 have been demonstrated and used successfully both 

15 in this country and abroad for many, many years. 

16 In Texas alone over one billion tons of carbon 

17 dioxide already has been sequestered underground.

18 EOR is an important technology because 

19 revenue from sale of CO2 helps pay for CCS costs. 

20 The capacity of EOR to handle CO2 emissions is 

21 large in the United States. A new DOE study 

22 notes that 67 billion barrels of oil are 
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1 economically recoverable at an oil price of $85 

2 per barrel. This would require the purchase of 

3 20 billion metric tons of CO2 at a projected price 

4 of $40 per ton. This is equivalent to 30 years 

5 of CO2 emissions from 93 gigawatts of coal plants.

6 In evaluating BSER EPA is not limited 

7 only to the domestic applications. In Norway the 

8 Slightner [phonetic] CO2 Injection Operation in 

9 the North Sea has isolated 8 to 9 million tons of 

10 CO2 in a saline formation since 1996 without 

11 evidence of leakage.

12 Moreover, the U.S. already has over 4,000 

13 miles of CO2 pipelines in operation. CO2

14 pipelines carry CO2 from natural reservoirs as 

15 well as industrial sources to EOR sites. The 

16 expansion of this network to meet future CO2

17 transportation needs presents no new technical or 

18 regulatory uncertainties.

19 In addition to the plants described 

20 above, carbon capture technology is operating in 

21 a variety of settings and fuels in the United 

22 States and across the world. For example, in the 
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1 U.S. Plant Marion in Mobile, Alabama, is 

2 capturing CO2 and using post-combustion capture 

3 technology. And the Dakota Gasification Plant in 

4 North Dakota it has been using pre-combustion 

5 capture technology to capture CO2 and send it via 

6 pipelines to oil fields in Canada where it is 

7 sequestered via enhanced oil recovery option.

8 In China the Shidonkou post-combustion 

9 CCS facility hen removing over 120,000 tons of CO2 

10 from a coal-fired power plant outside Shanghai 

11 since 2010.

12 I appreciate this opportunity to comment 

13 at this hearing. CATF intends to file more 

14 detailed materials into the record as part of our 

15 written comments by June 24th, 2012.

16 MS. NOONAN: Thank you so much.

17 Start when you can.

18 MS. BUCHANAN: My name is Susan Buchanan, 

19 B-U-C-H-A-N-A-N. Thank you for the opportunity 

20 to express my personal views about the EPA's 

21 carbon pollution standard for new power plants.

22 I am here today representing Physicians 
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1 for Social Responsibility and the Union of 

2 Concerned Scientists, groups whose missions 

3 include protecting the public from environmental 

4 health threats. 

5 I am a family physician with specialty 

6 training in Occupational and Environmental 

7 Medicine. In my role as a primary care provider 

8 I have diagnosed hundreds of patients with 

9 diseases that can be linked directly to air 

10 pollution and poor air quality in our city here 

11 in Chicago.

12 As an environmental medicine specialist, 

13 I follow the scientific literature on the health 

14 effects of climate change, and I recognize that 

15 research in the past decade has clearly shown 

16 that air quality affects human health to a much 

17 greater degree than we previously thought.

18 Power plants are the largest source of 

19 carbon pollution in the U.S., which includes 

20 carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. Scientists now 

21 overwhelmingly agree that the accumulation of 

22 greenhouse gases is causing climate change. 
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1 Health effects that can be linked to 

2 climate change include asthma, coronary heart 

3 disease, heat stroke, and deaths from heat waves, 

4 insect-borne infectious diseases, injuries and 

5 deaths from floods, and food shortages caused by 

6 drought. The health effects of climate change 

7 will likely be the biggest public health 

8 challenge of the 21st century.

9 I would like to review three potential 

10 health effects from climate change. First, 

11 asthma: Air pollution triggers wheezing, 

12 shortness of breath, and coughing, and is known 

13 to cause asthma attacks.

14 In Cook County we are already suffering 

15 from an epidemic of asthma. Over 300,000 adults 

16 and 100,000 children have been diagnosed with 

17 asthma giving a prevalence of 13 percent. Some 

18 neighborhoods have 44 percent. That means that 

19 in some areas of Chicago 44 out of every 100 

20 residents are suffering from this chronic, 

21 potentially deadly disease which has been 

22 directly linked to air pollution.
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1 Asthma exacerbations or flare-ups are one 

2 of the most common reasons for visiting primary 

3 care physicians and emergency rooms. Asthma 

4 fatalities are not uncommon and are likely to 

5 increase as our air quality worsens with climate 

6 change.

7 Onto deaths due to heat waves: The U.S. 

8 Centers for Disease Control reports that the heat 

9 wave in Europe in 2003 caused in excess of 35,000 

10 deaths. Climate change models predict that heat 

11 waves already on the rise will become more 

12 frequent.

13 Cancer: It is estimated that 

14 environmental factors account for approximately 

15 30 percent of cancers. According to the Centers 

16 for Disease Control, quote, one possible direct 

17 impact of climate change on cancer may be through 

18 increase in exposure to toxic chemicals that are 

19 known or suspected to cause cancer following 

20 heavy rainfall and by increased volatilization of 

21 chemicals under conditions of increased 

22 temperature. 
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1 In the case of heavy rainfall or flooding 

2 there may be an increase in leaching of toxic 

3 chemicals and heavy metals from storage sites and 

4 increased contamination of water with runoff 

5 containing persistent chemicals that are already 

6 in the environment, end quote.

7 In summary, carbon emissions contribute 

8 to climate change. Climate change causes adverse 

9 health effects on humans that will likely 

10 increase in the future; therefore, I strongly 

11 support the proposed carbon pollution standard 

12 for new power plants. In addition, I urge the 

13 EPA to move swiftly to enact standards that cover 

14 existing power plants. Is it essential to the 

15 health of our citizens that the U.S. EPA take 

16 measures immediately to prevent air pollution 

17 and, therefore, reduce the effects of climate 

18 change.

19 Thank you.

20 MS. NOONAN: I'd like to call Dr. 

21 Christopher Codispoti and Janet Smith to the 

22 table, please.
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1 [Pause.]

2 MS. NOONAN: And could you -- I'm sure I 

3 pronounced your name incorrectly. Could you --

4 MR. CODISPOTI: Not a problem. Dr. 

5 Codispoti. That's C-O-D-I-S-P-O-T-I.

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

7 MR. CODISPOTI: You're welcome. Thank 

8 you for having me here.

9 Good morning, my name is Dr. Christopher 

10 Codispoti, and I'm an allergist at Rush 

11 University Medical Center, and I'm here to 

12 support the EPA's proposed limiting carbon 

13 pollution from power plants.

14 The EPA and I have related goals. We 

15 both want to help people breathe easier. Every 

16 day I treat patients whose lungs are compromised 

17 by asthma. I could tell you about their 

18 treatment, the risks they face, and how the air 

19 quality impacts their daily life. Or you’re your 

20 indulgence I could show you what's it like to be 

21 one of my patients.

22 So, imagine that come into my office, and 
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1 for the past few months you've been short of 

2 breath. Things that were easy for you to do --

3 go for a job, walk up a flight of stairs -- are 

4 now difficult. After a series of tests I tell 

5 you -- I have to tell you you have asthma and for 

6 a variety of reasons your airways are inflamed.

7 For better or worse, you're not alone. 

8 In 2009 it was estimated that 24.6 million 

9 Americans currently had asthma. Fortunately, 

10 though, there are some lifestyle choices that we 

11 can do to mitigate their asthma symptoms. For 

12 instance, tobacco smoke should be avoided. We 

13 also -- where you work, dust, fumes, and 

14 pollution should also be avoided. If you work 

15 outside, air pollution could become your worst 

16 enemy.

17 You're not one of my patients, but you're 

18 incredibly important to them. Unlike my 

19 patients, you can do more than avoid air 

20 pollutants. You can take steps to reduce their 

21 directions. You can set standards and limits to 

22 omit power plant carbon pollution. As someone 
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1 devoted to improving respiratory health, I'm here 

2 to commend your efforts to reduce carbon 

3 pollution.

4 The rule that the EPA has proposed does 

5 nothing to address carbon pollution from existing 

6 power plants, only new ones. There are almost 

7 6,000 power plants in existence today with no 

8 sign that they will comply with the standard for 

9 new power plants. For these standards to have 

10 the greatest effect the EPA must develop a 

11 standard for all power plants, not only the ones 

12 built in the future.

13 So, there are 3 million -- there are 

14 millions of patients depending on you, and so am 

15 I. And I urge you to finalize this rule and 

16 develop standards for existing power plant carbon 

17 pollution. 

18 Thank you.

19 MS. SMITH: My name is Janet Smith, J-A20 N-E-T, S-M-I-T-H.

21 Thank you so much for having this hearing 

22 and giving us opportunity to speak.
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1 I am a volunteer Sierra Club leader of 

2 the Cool City Coalition in Carol Stream, 

3 Illinois, where we are working on local solutions 

4 to global warming one city at a time. Since 2009 

5 our coalition has been working together with our 

6 village board, park district, public libraries, 

7 schools, businesses, and residents to reduce the 

8 carbon footprint of our community. It is 

9 important that everyone do all that we know how 

10 to do to protect the planet, and above all, to 

11 stabilize climate change or changing climate. 

12 We know from such reputable scientists as 

13 James Hansen from NASA that the climate 

14 disruption is already being felt in the 

15 increasing severity and frequency of the storms 

16 which even Carol Stream has been suffering. The 

17 amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and 

18 oceans has increased from around 280 parts per 

19 million in the late 1800's to around 390 parts 

20 per million, and the oceans are becoming so much 

21 more acidic from the increased carbon dioxide 

22 that it has been absorbed into the sea water so 
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1 as to threaten sea corals and shell-bearing sea 

2 life.

3 This March when we had eight days in a 

4 row above 80 degrees, people were enjoying 

5 themselves, but to me, it had an eerie feeling. 

6 We broke, as I read, over 4,000 temperature 

7 records across the United States in that one 

8 month.

9 Civilization depends on a stabilized 

10 climate. Even some of our highest military 

11 leaders have named the changing climate as a 

12 national security threat. Crops have failed from 

13 the extreme and long droughts in Texas and across 

14 the southern half of the United States. The 

15 United States Department of Agriculture has 

16 changed the climate zones to farther north -- to 

17 be revised farther north.

18 It's strange to me that the USDA cannot 

19 say that this is climate change because, as they 

20 say, before they can say it is really climate 

21 change, it has to be like that for about 50 

22 years; but we can't wait 50 years because the 
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1 climate change is rolling on faster and faster, 

2 and we are seeing major changes in the reduction 

3 of the glaciers and of the ice caps. And the 

4 glaciers supply water to many major rivers.

5 The work we have been attempting to do in 

6 our local Cool City -- Cool Cities across the 

7 nation is important, but it is not enough. We 

8 need a national effort acknowledging that the 

9 climate is changing unnaturally from increased 

10 human-caused carbon dioxide pollution and other 

11 heat-trapping emissions as well in our atmosphere 

12 and seas.

13 It is important now to work together at 

14 every level to solve global warming one city at a 

15 time, and one nation at a time, and globally. We 

16 must be leaders, not followers in this effort. 

17 Please, I urge you and the U.S. EPA to regulate 

18 carbon dioxide emissions from all new fossil fuel 

19 fed power plants. 

20 There are over 40 people that I have 

21 spoken with in the last five days who couldn't 

22 come today, themselves, but they have sent these 
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1 postcards that I have with me to present to you. 

2 They support the Environmental Protection Agency 

3 and its proposed new source performance 

4 standards. There would be many more if I had 

5 started earlier to collect these postcards.

6 But significantly, some of the first to 

7 sign were my mayor, Frank Saverino, Sr., and five 

8 of the six trustees of the Carol Stream Village 

9 Board. 

10 Thank you, Mrs. Jackson, and EPA for what 

11 you are trying to do, and here is our 

12 wholehearted support. And I have --

13 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

14 MS. SMITH: -- the postcards and a copy 

15 of what I tried to read.

16 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Great. Thank you 

17 both very much.

18 Michael Olinger and Daniel Lee, please?

19 MR. LEE: Daniel Lee.

20 MS. NOONAN: You're Daniel Lee. Okay.

21 Dr. Joseph Leija, please? I apologize 

22 for butchering your name twice.
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1 MR. LEE: First, good morning to all. My 

2 name is Daniel Lee, and I am an at-large board 

3 member of Physicians for Social Responsibility 

4 and work in the field of public health.

5 MS. NOONAN: And you spell Lee, L-E-E?

6 MR. LEE: L, double E, yes.

7 I'd like to preface my remarks by 

8 reviewing just some basic givens. The earth is 

9 undeniably in a warming phase with a worldwide 

10 average temperature currently 1.4 degrees 

11 Fahrenheit higher than it was a century ago. The 

12 rate of warming is accelerating, and as a result, 

13 most of this increase has occurred within the 

14 past few decades with 11 of the past 12 years 

15 among the dozen warmest on record since 1850.

16 The primary cause of this global warming 

17 trend is the increasing level of carbon dioxide 

18 in the atmosphere, which in turn is the result of 

19 human activities creating it at a much faster 

20 rate than plants and oceans can absorb it. In 

21 other words, we have knocked the key global 

22 equilibrium out of balance and have done so to 
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1 the extent that if carbon emissions were reduced 

2 to pre-industrial levels today, the warming would 

3 not immediately stop let alone begin to reverse 

4 itself.

5 Among the most devastating consequences 

6 of global warming is climate change. The term 

7 which includes the increasing incidence of ever 

8 more powerful hurricanes, heat waves, wild fires, 

9 and other natural disasters. In addition to 

10 these relatively transient short-lived types of 

11 past (unintelligible) severe and long-lasting 

12 droughts are transforming an increasingly large 

13 portion of the earth's surface from air 

14 (unintelligible) land to deserts resulting in 

15 food insecurity in many parts of the world and 

16 higher food prices everywhere.

17 There is even evidence suggesting that 

18 global warning may paradoxically trigger a mini 

19 ice age in western Europe due to permanent 

20 alterations in the oceans' circulation patterns.

21 A report on the future health costs 

22 associated with these climate change related 
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1 occurrences that was published in the Journal of 

2 Health Affairs late last year focused on several 

3 public health concerns. Among those most 

4 pertinent in this part of the country are more 

5 ozone pollution episodes leading to an increase 

6 in emergency departments' visits, 

7 hospitalizations, or premature deaths as a result 

8 of reduced lung function and airway inflammation.

9 Longer and more intense and more frequent heat 

10 waves which increase stress on the heart, lungs, 

11 kidneys, and other organ systems, leading to, 

12 once again, emergency department visits, 

13 hospitalizations, and premature deaths.

14 The emergence of infectious diseases 

15 previously not found in the area. For example, 

16 it is thought by some that the appearance of West 

17 Nile Virus in the United States is linked to 

18 changing climatic conditions.

19 Fortunately, thanks to the work of 

20 dedicated scientists, public health, and 

21 healthcare practitioners, environmentalists, 

22 activists, elected and appointed officials, and 
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1 the membership of entities such as the United 

2 Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 

3 the information that I've just relayed is widely 

4 known and, to a large extent anyway, accepted as 

5 accurate.

6 What I think is a very positive 

7 consequence of the dissemination, understanding, 

8 and general acceptance of this information, 

9 gloomy as it is, is that we are seeing large 

10 numbers of people taking at least some measure of 

11 personal responsibility for global warming and 

12 changing behavior accordingly.

13 I'm talking about reducing one's carbon 

14 footprint by doing everything from converting to 

15 more efficient lighting, appliances, and cars to 

16 designing and constructing green buildings, to 

17 using bicycles and public transport to commute.

18 Although I don't want to downplay these things 

19 and applaud the genuine sacrifices made by some 

20 in the name of saving the planet, this type of 

21 fragmented piecemeal and inconsistently 

22 implemented approach is not enough, not by a long 
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1 shot.

2 What is needed and what has been missing 

3 in our country up until now, I think, is 

4 meaningful, collective action toward achieving 

5 some measure of control over the source of global 

6 warming -- carbon pollution.

7 This rule represents the first real 

8 opportunity for us to do that as a society, and I 

9 wholeheartedly support it. Let us not fiddle and 

10 dither, and delay, and remain indecisive any 

11 longer. Please implement and then rigorously 

12 enforce the carbon pollution standard for new 

13 power plants. 

14 Thank you.

15 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

16 DR. LEIJA: My name is Dr. Joseph Leija, 

17 L-E-I-J-A. I'm an allergist Loyola University 

18 Health System. In my case I'm here to support 

19 the EPA through their proposed rules limiting 

20 carbon pollution from the power plants.

21 For years I've been involved in allergy, 

22 and my main focus has been people with asthma. 
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1 And we are seeing people nowadays creating a big 

2 problem with runny noses, sneezing, coughing, 

3 congestion, and mainly wheezing, difficulty 

4 breathing asthma.

5 As something that in my case as a hobby 

6 I've been doing pollen count for many years, and 

7 I'm certified by the American Academy of Allergy 

8 and Immunology to do the pollen count for the 

9 past 20 years. Every year I'm seeing completely 

10 changes in the pollution of the area, pollen 

11 increasing tremendously, mold increasing more and 

12 more and creating more problems with asthma, 

13 allergy rhinitis. 

14 This year is an example of what never 

15 have before felt in my life. Seeing that the 

16 weather was nice and warm in March, and we 

17 started putting the machine to do the pollen 

18 count, and we found that it was extremely large 

19 amounts of pollen in the air. It's something 

20 that we never did before because we usually is 

21 done pollen counts in April 15th, April 1st 

22 sometimes. And this time we started earlier. 
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1 And we find ourselves we got to start with large 

2 amount of pollen. And in the beginning I thought 

3 it was a mistake, but it wasn't a mistake. It 

4 was something that every day we find more pollen 

5 in the air and create more problem with people 

6 with allergies and asthma.

7 It's something that nowadays the season 

8 have been prolonging quite a bit with the trees 

9 pollen. We are seeing pollen like never before 

10 from ragweed that usually is August, September 

11 the time. And the previous we were seeing 

12 ragweed a little bit earlier (unintelligible) 

13 attention, but nowadays we're seeing quite a bit 

14 of pollen in the air that is going to precipitate 

15 more people with allergies and asthma.

16 I'm having increasing tremendously. We 

17 have been having problems because medications and 

18 the insurance liability is not there. And people 

19 are suffering more from asthma and going to the 

20 emergency room, being seen by the emergency room 

21 doctors, giving medication for relief. And 

22 really, that is not to be the treatment. The 
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1 treatment is you be seen by the proper physician, 

2 an allergist. I'm not saying they refer to me or 

3 anything like that, but it's something the 

4 patient needs care. And the most important thing 

5 for us is the air. We are having an increase in 

6 the amount of pollen, an increase in the amount 

7 of asthma coming to the patient into the 

8 emergency room.

9 Nowadays, too, we have a big problem 

10 because the money is not there. The insurance is 

11 not there. And for me to keep on fighting those 

12 things that the pollution is a problem, while at 

13 the same time the patient is not coming to be 

14 seen properly. It is something that we have 

15 millions and -- everybody put numbers and 

16 numbers. I don't care about the numbers. All I 

17 care about is patients right now. And the 

18 patient has been seen in the emergency room, or 

19 many times they postpone the treatment. If I 

20 take the treatment, the medication are expensive 

21 for one thing. The medication, the inhaler that 

22 they use is 200 bucks a month. They do not 
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1 afford that. And in the meantime I have to help 

2 them by giving samples. Nowadays we have 

3 nothing. People come -- the salesmen come to the 

4 office with a (unintelligible) because of the 

5 economy situation, and we don't have no samples 

6 to give to the patients to help them to control 

7 the asthma.

8 It's something that we have to look into 

9 this business to -- and for years I've been 

10 talking about business of the pollution and 

11 improve the environment, but we do nothing about 

12 it. And in my case here I am trying to help as 

13 much as I could, you know, to help the pollution 

14 in the air that we're having by controlling the 

15 plants that produces quite a bit of problem with 

16 also increasing -- indicate a problem with more 

17 pollutants in the air.

18 It's something that's very essential for 

19 us to do -- participating. We talk about it, but 

20 we don't do nothing much. I think it's something 

21 that we have to control the environment, the air 

22 that we breathe by helping ourselves.
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1 Like I say, I do the pollen count, and we 

2 do it every year. And this year much earlier. 

3 And the year before it was a little early. We 

4 don't pay attention about it, but this year in 

5 March we already have very high count, you know, 

6 of pollen, trees, and then we're having weeds 

7 that never -- having season of weed pollen until 

8 May, June, July, but now we're having quite a bit 

9 of pollen, quite high. And it was on television. 

10 It goes to different areas, and newspaper, and 

11 everything else, but it's something that we have 

12 to help the people. And we have to change the 

13 environment that we have.

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

15 MR. PELLNER: Actually I just had a 

16 couple more questions. You were with Physicians 

17 for?

18 MR. LEE: Social Responsibility.

19 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

20 Okay. I'd like to call Bryan Grochowski 

21 and Robert Collier, please.

22 MR. COLLIER: My name is Robert Collier, 
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1 R-O-B-E-R-T, C-O-L-L-I-E-R.

2 Thank you for the opportunity to testify 

3 today. I'm here on behalf of Environmental 

4 Defense Fund, a nonpartisan environmental 

5 organization with more than 750,000 members 

6 nationwide and 37,000 members in Illinois.

7 The proposed standards are an important 

8 step towards addressing the massive quantities of 

9 climate destabilizing pollution emitted from U.S. 

10 power plants, one of the largest sources of 

11 greenhouse gases in the world. By having the 

12 lifetime carbon emissions from new coal-fired 

13 power plants relative to a traditional plant, 

14 these historic clean air standards will provide 

15 long overdue and urgently needed protections for 

16 our health and climate while strengthening our 

17 made in the USA clean energy economy.

18 Climate change presents a clear threat to 

19 the U.S. and to the world. The United States 

20 Global Change Research Program started in 1989 as 

21 a presidential initiative under George H. W. Bush 

22 has determined that if carbon pollution is not 
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1 reduced, it is likely that American communities 

2 will experience increasingly severe climate 

3 impacts.

4 Since the 1980's Midwesterners have been 

5 experiencing intense heat waves more frequently 

6 than any other time except the Dust Bowl era. 

7 Data from the insurance industry reveals that in 

8 2011 Americans saw 12 climate disasters causing 

9 at least a billion dollars of damage each, a 

10 record number of such events.

11 Although any particular individual 

12 extreme weather event cannot be directly 

13 connected to climate change, changes in frequency 

14 and intensity can be connected. And these are 

15 precisely the type of impacts projected to affect 

16 American communities.

17 Unless our country takes aggressive 

18 action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, 

19 climate impacts are projected to worsen. Severe 

20 heat waves such as the unprecedented 1995 event 

21 in Chicago could happen as often as every other 

22 year. Furthermore, warmer temperatures will also 
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1 lead to rising levels of smog pollution, which is 

2 known to cause heightened risk of respiratory 

3 infections, more asthma attacks, and more 

4 premature deaths.

5 In the interest of the health and 

6 prosperity of our citizens, ecosystems, and 

7 economies we simply cannot afford additional 

8 delay. Each year power plants discharge over 2.3 

9 billion tons of carbon dioxide pollution, an 

10 amount that exceeds total carbon emissions of 

11 industrialized nations such as Russia, Japan, and 

12 Germany.

13 During the past several years states 

14 across the nation have adopted greenhouse gas 

15 emission standards for new fossil-fuel-fired 

16 power plants that have laid the groundwork for a 

17 strong national standard.

18 In 2007 Minnesota enacted the Next 

19 Generation Energy Act which requires increases in 

20 power sector greenhouse emissions from any new 

21 large coal-fired power plant built in Minnesota 

22 or the import of electricity from such a facility 
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1 located out of state to be offset by equipment 

2 emissions reductions.

3 Here, the City of Chicago is taking 

4 immediate action to both mitigate additional 

5 impacts and adapt to changes already under way. 

6 With the Climate Action Plan launched in 2008 the 

7 city set on a path to reexamine the existing 

8 fleet of coal-fired power plants throughout the 

9 state, promote energy efficiency and renewable 

10 sources of energy and adapt to climate changes 

11 already set in motion by reducing ozone-forming 

12 air pollution, managing the heat island effect, 

13 and preparing the city for more intense heat 

14 waves.

15 These standards are in line with market 

16 forces that are already driving utilities to 

17 develop cleaner technologies. Leaders within the 

18 utility industry recognize the importance and 

19 achievability of EPA's proposed standards. Ralph 

20 Izzo, CEO of Public Service Enterprise Group, 

21 issued the following statement immediately after 

22 EPA released its proposal: The Agency's action 
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1 establishes a logical and modest standard for new 

2 electricity power plants and it provides the 

3 industry with much needed regulatory certainty. 

4 The EPA provides a framework the industry to 

5 confront this problem in a cost effective manner.

6 In addition to the scores of citizens 

7 testifying today, over 1.2 million Americans have 

8 spoken out by submitting written comments in 

9 support of EPA's historic proposed health 

10 protections. Groups that represent millions of 

11 Americans from all walks of life have also 

12 released strong, supportive statements. These 

13 groups include Catholics United, Blue Green 

14 Alliance, Presente, the nation's largest online 

15 Latino advocacy group, and the American Public 

16 Health Association as well as many more that are 

17 here today.

18 And under EPA's standards the nation's 

19 energy needs can be met through a variety and 

20 diverse mix of power sources, including renewable 

21 energy, efficient natural gas power plants, 

22 combined heat and power, and improvements in the 
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1 efficiency of our energy use. The standards also 

2 provide a pathway for the development of carbon 

3 capture and sequestration for coal plants.

4 And in conclusion, working together, 

5 America can build the energy generation 

6 infrastructure that we need to protect our health 

7 and strengthen our economy.

8 Thank you.

9 MR. GROCHOWSKI: May I move the --

10 MS. NOONAN: Yes, please.

11 MR. GROCHOWSKI: -- mike? Okay.

12 Good morning. My name is Bryan 

13 Grochowski. That's B-R-Y-A-N. Grochowski, G-R14 O-W-S-K-I.

15 And I'm an executive board member of the 

16 Scientists and Engineers SEIU, Local 517M, in 

17 Lansing, Michigan. I work as a hazardous waste 

18 inspector for the Michigan Department of 

19 Environmental Quality, and I've spent my career 

20 working to reduce pollution and advocate for good 

21 policies, and making our communities health, 

22 safer, and more profitable. 
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1 In my spare time, among other things, I 

2 started a green team at my church which helps 

3 fellow people of faith be good stewards of the 

4 earth. 

5 Today I'm here representing myself and 

6 the Blue Green Alliance, a partnership of 12 of 

7 the country's largest unions and environmental 

8 organizations focused on creating good jobs in a 

9 clean environment. We at the Blue Green Alliance

10 support the EPA's authority to regulate 

11 greenhouse gases as it's vital for our public 

12 health and ability of Americans to transition to 

13 a clean energy economy. We also believe that 

14 it's imperative for Congress and the 

15 administration to implement the following 

16 complementary policies to ensure we maximize the 

17 job-creating potential of greenhouse gas 

18 regulations and a thriving U.S. energy economy.

19 Union workers like myself are often on 

20 the front lines when it comes to pollution and 

21 hazardous chemicals. We are the ones working to 

22 ensure that the surrounding workplaces and 
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1 communities are kept safe from potential 

2 disasters. But right now there is one potential 

3 disaster that America is coming together around 

4 to confront, and that is climate change. This 

5 proposed regulation would help us confront this 

6 challenge. The standards will require new plants 

7 to emit fewer greenhouse gases or carbon 

8 pollution into the air when they operate. This 

9 means new plants will be built cleaner and more 

10 energy efficient than current plants. Everyone 

11 can agree that preventing waste is a good policy.

12 Building new power plants that are 

13 cleaner and more energy efficient will drive 

14 innovation and clean technologies, spur 

15 development and production of clean technologies 

16 in the United States, creating jobs and economic 

17 growth, and reduce greenhouse gas emissions which 

18 will address the worst impact of climate change 

19 and protect the public health of our families and 

20 communities. This will protect the health of our 

21 families and make sure that we have a healthier 

22 environment all while creating jobs and making 
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1 America more competitive in the global economy.

2 Protections like these are not only 

3 critical to protecting public health and the 

4 environment, but they will drive economic growth 

5 much like clean air protections have driven 

6 economic growth over the past 40 years.

7 Protecting public health and the 

8 environment requires strong standards to reduce 

9 pollution also while ensuring a cleaner, more 

10 efficient economy. Common sense environmental 

11 protections will drive economic growth -- I'm 

12 sorry. I think I just said that.

13 In Michigan we're already seeing the 

14 benefits of smart and strong protections for our 

15 air. The remarkable recovery of the U.S. auto 

16 industry is a result of the work between unions, 

17 business, and government to build more efficient 

18 and desirable cars. And that has worked.

19 For America to compete and create and 

20 keep jobs in the 21st century, we need the 

21 proposed standard. Countries around the world 

22 are moving to make their economies more efficient 
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1 and capitalize on the benefits of both 

2 economically and environmentally for clean 

3 energy. To compete and win against them we need 

4 this and other measures to spur innovation and 

5 clean energy and efficiency. That's what this 

6 proposed standard will do.

7 If we believe in the future with good 

8 jobs, a clean environment, and a safer world, 

9 then we must act. An essential part of our moral 

10 responsibility as a union member is to defend the 

11 long-term interests of working people. EPA 

12 action like this, coupled with specific jobs 

13 policies, must move forward to make the U.S. 

14 economy more competitive. We believe that that 

15 is a formula that will put millions back to work, 

16 strengthening existing industries, and build the 

17 industries of the future.

18 In closing, all too often people are 

19 offered a false choice between having jobs and 

20 having a clean environment. And the truth is 

21 that we can choose both. Today is an opportunity 

22 to succeed like we succeeded so many times in the 
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1 past. We can have jobs and a clean environment, 

2 and we must have both.

3 Just one of the calculations that I did 

4 on my own when I learned how many greenhouse 

5 gases are emitted by one of our states, Texas, 

6 indicated that over one ton of carbon dioxide is 

7 released from that state for every man, woman, 

8 and child on the planet. That's just one state 

9 in the United States. So this is critical to the 

10 world.

11 And thank you for the opportunity to 

12 speak. And God bless.

13 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

14 Okay. I would like to call Theodore 

15 Steck and David Schaefer to the podium -- or to 

16 the table, please.

17 MR. STECK: Good morning.

18 MS. NOONAN: Good morning.

19 MR. STECK: My name is Theodore Steck, T20 H-E-O-D-O-R-E, S-T-E-C-K. I am an emeritus 

21 professor at the University of Chicago where I 

22 founded the environmental studies program and 
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1 chaired the program for about 15 years. I am 

2 also an M.D. and a biological scientist in my 

3 career.

4 My longstanding interest in environmental

5 policy prompts me to express my strong support 

6 for the proposed new standards limiting carbon 

7 dioxide emissions from new power plants, and I 

8 speak as an individual.

9 To me, the principal issues are the 

10 following: There is overwhelming scientific 

11 evidence that the earth's atmosphere is warming 

12 at an increasing and an alarming rate. Experts 

13 envision that this global warming will impose 

14 severely negative impacts on human well being. 

15 Human activities and in particular the burning of 

16 fossil fuels with the release of carbon dioxide 

17 are the principal causes for this climate change.

18 Because carbon dioxide is cleared from 

19 the atmosphere very slowly, global warming and 

20 its impacts will increase for centuries even 

21 after its emission ceases. The nations of the 

22 world have been slow to respond to this 
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1 increasing hazard. It is, therefore, very 

2 important for this nation to act immediately to 

3 drastically curtail the emission -- sorry -- of 

4 greenhouse gases and carbon dioxide in 

5 particular.

6 Burning coal for electric power 

7 generation is a major source of the rise in 

8 carbon dioxide. In addition, the emissions from 

9 burning coal can have a highly negative impact on 

10 human health and well being through acid rain, 

11 release of toxic mercury, and other toxic 

12 chemicals into the environment, and the 

13 generation of small particles called PM 2.5s 

14 which are responsible for significant 

15 cardiovascular death and disability.

16 Fortunately, a variety of alternative 

17 energy sources are available and are becoming 

18 increasingly cost competitive with coal. 

19 Furthermore, it has been shown that carbon 

20 dioxide emissions from burning coal can be 

21 captured prior to its release so as not to 

22 pollute the air. The captured carbon dioxide can 
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1 then be put to commercial use, in particular for 

2 expelling petroleum from the ground.

3 The new standards proposed by the EPA 

4 will, therefore, have several beneficial effects. 

5 They will prevent high-polluting coal-burning 

6 power plants from being built. They will 

7 stimulate the development of new and cost 

8 effective ways to burn coal with low carbon 

9 dioxide emissions, in particular through carbon 

10 capture and sequestration technology. They will 

11 stimulate the development of cost competitive 

12 clean alternative energy sources thereby reducing 

13 the use of coal altogether. They will 

14 demonstrate this country's commitment to global 

15 warming mitigation and thereby contribute 

16 favorably to our climate negotiations with other 

17 nations. These new standards will help to slow 

18 the rise of greenhouse gas emissions and the rate 

19 of global warming.

20 Finally, government studies have 

21 repeatedly shown that wise federal regulations 

22 such as this save money by protecting the 
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1 environment and human health rather than hurting 

2 the economy.

3 Thank you.

4 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

5 MR. SCHAEFER: David Schaefer. My name 

6 is David Schaefer, D-A-V-I-D, S-C-H-A-E-F-E-R.

7 I have come to urge the EPA to adopt the 

8 proposed carbon pollution standard limiting 

9 industrial carbon pollution from new power 

10 plants.

11 Two reasons stand out in mind. I retired 

12 from Chicago Transit Authority after 38 years of 

13 service. For 31 years I was a transportation

14 manager at Night Bus at a bus garage and a 

15 disciplinarian. When someone would come to sign 

16 out of the sick book to return to work, I saw 

17 steady and then accelerating increase in absences 

18 due to asthma. The problem with absence --

19 increasing absences is that it costs CTA more 

20 because we have to provide extra bus drivers to 

21 be ready to go when somebody doesn't -- somebody 

22 else doesn't come to work. The costs for our 
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1 industry gradually increased due to carbon, 

2 mercury, soot, smog, other toxic pollutants that 

3 cause public health problems.

4 When I was on vacation last summer, I 

5 drove through southern Minnesota, and we passed 

6 rank upon rank of huge wind generators. They 

7 were magnificent to see, and I was glad to see 

8 that some power generators are reducing their 

9 carbon output. That was -- on previous testimony 

10 said 13 percent. I think that's great.

11 We saw double-length flatbed railroad 

12 cars, very long trucks followed by a car with 

13 flashing lights on the top carrying immensely 

14 long wind turbine blades, one per truck. And the 

15 blades show that good jobs are available to 

16 benefit American workers as power generating 

17 companies turn to clean technology.

18 Finally we're seeing, this spring and 

19 this winter, cumulative effects of too much CO2. 

20 Chicago had the mildest winter that anybody can 

21 remember. I went camping two nights, March the 

22 13th and 14th, this spring when we had a 
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1 predicted high of 80 degrees which is unheard of 

2 in March, a low of 58. The 14th we saw -- went 

3 out to the beach and saw flights and flights of 

4 northbound migrating Sandhill Cranes, three or 

5 four weeks earlier than they ordinarily are 

6 traveling.

7 A previous testimony said that the 

8 weather was eerie. I think it's been scary.

9 Flowers are blooming an hour -- not an 

10 hour, a month earlier. There is -- because we 

11 didn't have our customary strong winter, we've 

12 had a great increase in deer ticks in the woods 

13 that mean that we also have the possibility of a 

14 greater spread of Lyme disease. I saw a small 

15 white dog come out of the bushes after three 

16 minutes, and we counted 12 ticks on the animal 

17 where maybe you would have seen none last year or 

18 one or two. An anecdotal evidence but still 

19 something very serious is going on, and it's 

20 detrimental.

21 Please implement and then enforce the 

22 proposed carbon pollution standard to limit 
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1 industrial carbon pollution from new power 

2 plants.

3 Thank you very much.

4 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

5 We're going to take a five-minute break, 

6 and then we will return. So I appreciate 

7 everyone's comments so far, and we look forward 

8 to more this afternoon -- the rest of the 

9 morning. Thank you.

10 [Break from 10:07 a.m. to 10:16 a.m.]

11 MS. NOONAN: Again everyone, thank you 

12 for attending this public hearing. My name is 

13 Jenny Noonan, and I'm the Director of the Policy 

14 Analysis and Communications Staff at EPA's Office 

15 of Air Quality, Planning, and Standards, and I am 

16 chairing today's hearing.

17 And joining me on the panel this morning 

18 are Christian Fellner, also with EPA's Office of 

19 Air Quality, Planning, and Standards in the 

20 Sectors Policy and Programs Division; and Donald 

21 Bruce who is here in EPA's Region 5 Office.

22 We are here today to listen to your 
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1 comments on EPA's Proposed Carbon Pollution 

2 Standard for New Power Plants. EPA published the 

3 proposed standards in the Federal Register on 

4 April 13th, 2012. This common sense step under 

5 the Clean Air Act would, for the first time, set 

6 national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 

7 that power plants built in the future can emit.

8 For future power plants EPA is proposing 

9 to set an output-based standard of 1,000 pounds 

10 of carbon dioxide, or CO2, per megawatt hour. The 

11 Agency's proposal does not apply to existing 

12 units or to planned units that already have 

13 received permits and break ground within the next 

14 12 months. 

15 EPA's proposed standard reflects the 

16 ongoing trend in the power sector to build 

17 cleaner plants that take advantage of American18 made technologies. The proposal is flexible and 

19 would help minimize carbon pollution through the 

20 deployment of the same types of modern 

21 technologies that power plants are already using 

22 to build the next generation of power plants. 
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1 EPA's proposal would ensure that this progress 

2 toward a cleaner, safer, and more modern power 

3 sector continued.

4 Today we will be accepting oral comments 

5 on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 

6 prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 

7 transcript will be available as part the official 

8 record of this rule. We are also accepting 

9 written comments on the proposed rule until June 

10 25th, 2012.

11 At the registration area, which is 

12 located in the hallway outside of this room, 

13 there are handouts with detailed information for 

14 submitting written comments by mail, fax, or 

15 electronically. EPA will consider your comments 

16 as we move forward to complete a final rule.

17 Now let me describe the procedures for 

18 today's hearing. I will call speakers to the 

19 table in pairs. And I apologize in advance for 

20 mangling last names. When it is your turn to 

21 speak, please state your name, your affiliation

22 before you begin your testimony. And it would 
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1 also help the court reporter if you would spell 

2 your name.

3 In order to be fair to everyone, we will 

4 limit your testimony to five minutes each; and we 

5 ask that you remain at the table until both 

6 speakers in the pair have finished. After you 

7 finish your testimony, members of the panel may 

8 ask you clarifying questions.

9 In addition, is you would like to have us 

10 put the full text of your written comments in the 

11 docket, please be sure to give a copy of any 

12 written comments to our staff at the registration 

13 table, or we can take them here.

14 We have a time-keeping system consisting 

15 of green, yellow, and red lights to help keep 

16 track of your five minutes to speak. When you 

17 begin speaking the green light will come on. The 

18 yellow light will signal that you have one minute 

19 left to speak. When the red light comes on, five 

20 minutes have past and I will ask you to please 

21 complete your testimony.

22 Today's hearing is scheduled to -- we 
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1 started at 8:30 and we will continue until 8:00 

2 tonight, if necessary, depending on the number of 

3 speakers. The hearing will recess during the 

4 scheduled lunch break from 12:00 to 1:00 and a 

5 dinner break from 4:30 to 5:30 p.m. We will 

6 reconvene promptly at 1:00 p.m. and 5:30, 

7 respectively.

8 If you would like to testify but have not 

9 yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 

10 registration desk. For those who have already 

11 registered to speak, we have tried to accommodate 

12 your requests for specific time slots. We ask 

13 your patience as we proceed through the list of 

14 speakers. We may need to make some adjustments 

15 throughout the day as time progresses.

16 If you have any questions throughout the 

17 day, please see the staff at the registration 

18 table for assistance.

19 And, again, thank you all for 

20 participating today. Let's get started again.

21 The next two speakers are Jan Gehrig and 

22 Maureen McCue. Please come to the table. Thank 
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1 you.

2 MS. GEHRIG: My name is Jan Gehrig, G-E3 H-R-I-G, and I represent Cool Joliet. My name is 

4 Jan Gehrig. My address is 733 Holland Lane, 

5 Romeoville, Illinois. Do you want me to go 

6 ahead?

7 MS. NOONAN: Please go ahead.

8 MS. GEHRIG: I'm President of Cool 

9 Joliet, which is an organization in the Joliet 

10 area concerned about clean air, water, and soil. 

11 As you may know, the Joliet area houses some of 

12 the dirtiest power plants in the nation. And 

13 people in our suffer from a high incidence of 

14 asthma, early deaths due to a variety of 

15 respiratory problems. And we have tried to get a 

16 plan together without success, and so we are here 

17 in appreciation for the fact that now there is a 

18 national standard in view that will be something 

19 that will enhance the lives of current and future 

20 Will County residents.

21 The EPA is historic for its successful 

22 efforts to safeguard the air that we breathe; and 
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1 we appreciate that. The battle for clean air has 

2 been waged over the years with significant 

3 successes as well as some failures. Emissions of 

4 automobiles, diesel trucks, buses, and big 

5 equipment have improved as a result of EPA 

6 action. Sustainable forms of energy have 

7 emerged, and we also have a variety of 

8 sustainable forms of energy as a result of EPA 

9 action.

10 The quality of our air is central to the 

11 quality of our health. You know, we can live 

12 several weeks without food. We can live several 

13 hours without water, but just a few minutes 

14 without air. So air is central to the quality of 

15 our health.

16 As we look to the future, we realize that 

17 we're standing on a historic point in our 

18 nation's history. And we must claim the EPA's --

19 this as the greatest success because our future 

20 health depends on this standard.

21 I brought a picture of my grandson, 

22 Ryland. He looks healthy. If you were to listen 
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1 to his breathing, you would hold that in 

2 question. He wheezes. He has labored breathing. 

3 And this was as an infant. And when he sleeps, 

4 you would swear there was an adult in the room he 

5 snores so loudly.

6 Now that breathing has shown some 

7 improvement, but what does his future health look 

8 like? I have two grandsons that carry nebulizers 

9 in their hip pocket. How much activity they can 

10 endure, where they can be is dependent on that 

11 nebulizer. 

12 And if you have ever looked in the face 

13 of a child who has forgotten his or her 

14 nebulizer, you realize the tragedy of not being 

15 able to get air. There are those who would 

16 characterize these herrings and our other actions 

17 and psychopathic heresy. They want to let the 

18 polluters off the hook, repeal the air quality 

19 standards, suggest that gas will be cheaper and 

20 that there's an economic benefit. The result, of 

21 course, we know is simply more smog, more asthma, 

22 more respiratory illnesses, and more deaths. 
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1 Children such as my grandchild Ryland deserve a 

2 toxic-free environment.

3 This is our moment in history to provide 

4 that kind of future for coming generations. 

5 Carbon pollution standards will provide a future 

6 that is cleaner and simultaneously provide 

7 innovative solutions to our energy needs. We 

8 must claim the moment and declare the victory.

9 Thank you for this opportunity.

10 [Applause.]

11 MS. NOONAN: While I appreciate the 

12 support that are given to the speakers, just for 

13 the sake of time, we ask that everyone hold your 

14 enthusiasm.

15 MS. McCUE: Okay. Hi, my name is Maureen 

16 McCue, M-C, capital C-U-E. I am a physician and 

17 a professor of global health at the University of 

18 Iowa. I am also the coordinator for Iowa Chapter 

19 of Physicians for Social Responsibility.

20 I'm unlikely to say anything which you 

21 haven't already heard or of which you are 

22 unaware. Rather, I see my role here today as 
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1 speaking in support of your efforts to protect 

2 our health my limiting carbon emissions from new 

3 utilities burning any of a variety of carbon4 based fossil fuels, primarily coal, but including 

5 natural gas and others.

6 For any coal or fossil-fuel burning 

7 utility, new or old, emissions of carbon dioxide, 

8 nitrous oxide, sulfur oxides, particulate matter, 

9 mercury, other heavy metals, and greenhouse gases 

10 are all released. Each is well known to be 

11 harmful to health either directly or indirectly 

12 through its impacts on the climate and the 

13 environment.

14 And while the U.S. is no longer the 

15 largest national emitter of carbon-based 

16 pollution, it does remain number one around the 

17 world as having the largest cumulative 

18 contribution of CO2 to our atmosphere. U.S. 

19 citizens continue to produce the most carbon 

20 pollution on a per capita basis.

21 Our carbon footprint is well beyond all 

22 other developed nations and most especially many 
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1 times more than most of those in the poorer 

2 countries of the world, those that are being hurt 

3 even today by our changing climate.

4 Carbon pollution drives climate change. 

5 Climate change is one of the gravest health 

6 threats facing our nation and the population of 

7 the entire world. Action is urgently needed to 

8 reduce carbon pollution and limit its most severe 

9 health effects. Climate change is here now. 

10 Regardless of the difficulties in drawing lines 

11 between particular weather events and climate 

12 change, there is a strong relationship between 

13 the emerging patterns of disasters and global 

14 warming.

15 And just to acknowledge Mr. Romney, who 

16 questions why we should be constrained in 

17 responding to a global phenomenon as if it were 

18 not America warming, I'd like to quickly review 

19 the U.S. experience. 

20 211 [sic] was a year of extremes. 

21 Thousands of weather reports were broken all 

22 across the U.S. The decade 2000 to 2010 was the 
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1 warmest on the record. 2000, 2005 were the 

2 hottest years since recordkeeping began in the 

3 1880's. 

4 We have experienced 35 consecutive years 

5 with global temperatures well over the 20th 

6 century average. With the climate changing, the 

7 costs of health are climbing. Health costs of 

8 just six U.S. climate-change-related events 

9 between 2002 and 2009 cost us $14 billion in lost 

10 lives. And this figure doesn't include related 

11 and less intense morbidity costs of several 

12 climate-related events like vector water borne 

13 diseases, allergies, mental health, or food 

14 security costs.

15 We know the following are all expected to 

16 increase in extent, frequency, and intensity. 

17 Things like heat waves which are involved in 

18 increasing ozone air pollution across the nation. 

19 Our existing coal plants are contributing to 

20 that.

21 Increasing periods of severe drought with 

22 more frequent wild fires. We've just been 
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1 listening to the wild fire out west. Hurricanes 

2 and other extreme storm events, more torrential 

3 downpours, flooding. We're well-acquainted with 

4 that in Iowa. We have water borne and food borne 

5 diseases coming along with that flooding. 

6 Infectious diseases like the West Nile Virus 

7 outbreaks. Increasing levels of pollens and 

8 allergy responses, ecosystem disruptions leading 

9 to food and water supply insecurity, reduced 

10 mental health and community well being.

11 These costs go on and on. We have costs 

12 for insurance, for home owners, for businesses, 

13 the cost of preparedness, and so on. So, we have 

14 to look at carbon pollution. We don't have to 

15 continue our excessive carbon pollution. We 

16 don't have to continue to affect our children and 

17 those of the world. We have to draw back. We 

18 have to begin to limit.

19 When you find yourself in a hole, stop 

20 digging. When a powerful monster comes near, 

21 don't feed it or provoke it. The time to stop 

22 feeding the climate change monster is now. 
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1 Limiting and reducing CO2 emissions from new 

2 carbon-burning utilities is but a small start on 

3 a very long road. We have a lot of work to do.

4 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

5 I would like to call John Rachow and 

6 Ellen Rendulich. And on deck for the next --

7 after these speakers just so we can keep things 

8 moving, John Heinz and Peter Gorr. Could you be 

9 ready for the next panel?

10 MR. RACHOW: Good morning. I'm Dr. John 

11 Rachow, J-O-H-N, R-A-C-H-O-W. I'm a physician 

12 from Iowa, and I'm the 2011 President of the 

13 National Organization of Physicians for Social 

14 Responsibility. We drove over from Iowa today to 

15 speak at this opportunity. And we appreciate the 

16 opportunity.

17 Our organization, Physicians for Social 

18 Responsibility, recognizes greenhouse gas driven 

19 global warming as one of the greatest, if not the 

20 greatest, most immediate threat to human health 

21 on the planet. So we were pretty excited when 

22 the EPA was given authority to regulate carbon 
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1 emissions, were excited when the rule came out. 

2 Reading the rule, we can see it is a rule, but 

3 there are some disappointing aspects. It is 

4 extraordinarily narrow. It addresses only plants 

5 that may burn fossil fuels that don't exist, that 

6 may exist in the future. They may be in 

7 planning. They may be built or may not be built.

8 In the first quarterly issue of the 

9 Quarterly Coal Report in 1994 -- that's more than 

10 20 years ago -- an article stated that the modern 

11 pulverized coal electric generating plant emits 

12 1,050 tons of carbon dioxide per mega kilowatt of 

13 electricity generated. I was stunned to see the 

14 limit for any future plants to be 1,000 tons of 

15 carbon dioxide per mega kilowatt hour of megawatt 

16 hour of electricity generating for the future. 

17 Hopefully, our technology would have advanced in 

18 the last 20 years, and certainly over the next 30 

19 years it should advance tremendously over that. 

20 So that particular limit is surprisingly weak.

21 But as I read through the Regulatory 

22 Impact Assessment that the EPA has published, an 
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1 executive summary at least, it is fairly clear 

2 and stated over and over that this rule will have 

3 no impact on a variety of things. It will have 

4 no impact on the cost of electricity. It will 

5 have no impact on the economy. It will have no 

6 impact on the way industry designs and builds 

7 plants. It will have no impact on jobs. And, in 

8 fact, it says it's not expected to impact carbon 

9 dioxide emissions at least until after 2020.

10 In addition there -- and it doesn't limit 

11 the number of plants that can be built. So, if 

12 theoretically industry can start building 

13 unlimited numbers of coal plants over the next 10 

14 years that meet the standards, but our total 

15 carbon emission would go way up. That's 

16 theoretical. That could happen. So that is of a 

17 concern.

18 And also of concern is the 30-year 

19 averaging rule that's built in that says that 

20 that 1,000 tons standard can be met if it's 

21 averaged over 30 years, as I understand the 

22 interpretation of the rules and my understanding 
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1 of the interpretation which say that -- the 

2 example that was given, so for 10 years a new 

3 power plant could exceed considerably that 1,000-

4 ton limit as long as in the next 20 years it was 

5 enough to get it less, put in new technology 

6 perhaps that would limit the emissions from 

7 thereon. 

8 So, I really appreciate that the rule is 

9 made and EPA has a rope but is not planning to 

10 even make the first coil that would form the 

11 noose to tighten restrictions. The rule will not 

12 be revisited for eight years. The 30-year rule 

13 pushes things out to 2040, and by then we will be 

14 over the carbon tipping point in the global 

15 warming -- global warming tipping point. So this 

16 is a formula for business as usual, although it 

17 is a first rule, and I applaud that.

18 Thank you.

19 MS. RENDULICH: My name is Ellen 

20 Rendulich, R-E-A-D-U-L-I-C-H. I am one of the 

21 founders and directors of a grassroots 

22 organization, Citizens Against Ruining the 
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1 Environment, CARE. We are located in Will 

2 County, Illinois. We have been attending public 

3 hearings since 1996 pertaining to antiquated 

4 coal-fired plants in Illinois in hopes of 

5 achieving binding and enforceable permits and the 

6 highest and most modern technology available.

7 In 1995 while watching the soot and 

8 pollution coming from two polluting coal-fired 

9 plants in Will County, we decided to find out 

10 exactly how that pollution might be affecting our 

11 health. These facilities are currently owned by 

12 Midwest Generation, and they're located in 

13 Romeoville and Joliet, Illinois.

14 We found that both facilities were 

15 grandfathered from the Clean Air Act. In 1996 we 

16 heard that the antiquated coal-fired power plant 

17 with minimal to no pollution controls was going 

18 to do an experimental coal tar burn. We 

19 requested a public hearing and we lost. The 

20 experimental coal tar burn failed. 

21 When we asked the EPA, the Illinois EPA, 

22 what to do after we watched the black clouds and 
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1 inhaled the fumes from the Romeo facility, we 

2 were told by the Illinois EPA to close our 

3 windows and stay inside, period.

4 Many of our friends are using inhalers, 

5 including myself. My husband uses two types 

6 daily. My sister-in-law who died of lung disease 

7 leaving two small children and one of our members 

8 used an oxygen tank before they passed.

9 Many of our (unintelligible) driveways in 

10 our neighborhoods are covered with soot and 

11 respiratory illness. And respiratory illness is 

12 prevalent. Air is life, and we know that our 

13 lives can be shortened due to the toxic 

14 conditions in the air that we are breathing.

15 For 17 years members of Citizens Against 

16 Ruining the Environment, CARE, has relayed 

17 stories of negative health effects and how our 

18 lives are adversely affected by the soot and 

19 pollution from coal power plants. And we need 

20 your help.

21 Carbon emissions pollution is not a 

22 statewide issue. It's a nationwide issue. We 
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1 are requesting that the U.S. EPA do the right 

2 thing by implementing the most stringent possible 

3 pollution controls.

4 Thank you.

5 MS. NOONAN: John Heinz and Peter Gorr, 

6 please.

7 MR. HEINZ: Did you say John Heinz?

8 MS. NOONAN: I did.

9 MR. GORR: Good morning. My name is 

10 Peter Gorr, G-O-R-R. I live in Palatine, 

11 Illinois. I'm a retired business executive, but 

12 I’m an active member of Sierra Club and the 

13 Illinois Solar Energy Association.

14 I am testifying today in support of 

15 carbon pollution standards for new power plants. 

16 You will hear from many people and even your own 

17 documents highlight the importance of these 

18 standards as relates to environmental and health 

19 effects. These are critically important, but I 

20 wish to focus on this matter from another 

21 perspective.

22 We like to think of our economy as 
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1 essentially a free and fair market economy. I 

2 say free and fair because a totally unregulated 

3 free market is anything but fair. What makes the 

4 market more fair are rational and reasonable 

5 regulations. Generally, and unfortunately, 

6 regulations are required to protect the health, 

7 safety, and wealth of the public. In a perfect 

8 world they shouldn't be needed, but it is not a 

9 perfect world with powerful corporations run by 

10 many individuals driven more by greed and power 

11 than the public interest.

12 We continue to struggle through economic 

13 events brought on by nothing more than these same 

14 shortcomings in an under regulated financial 

15 industry. The energy industry is also not free 

16 and fair. Fortunately, the industry has evolved 

17 to offer many alternatives for generating energy. 

18 Unfortunately, there's not a level playing field 

19 between these alternatives and fossil fuels. And 

20 this is in direct conflict with free market 

21 principles.

22 We now have alternatives that effectively 
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1 and efficiently generate energy with no carbon 

2 emissions. I know because I own such a system. 

3 I converted my home to solar generated 

4 electricity and produce over 8 megawatt hours of 

5 electricity per year with not what is being 

6 allowed under these standards, namely over 8,000 

7 pounds of carbon emissions, but rather I produce 

8 zero carbon emissions. Also, I generate energy 

9 at a very competitive rate to what is offered 

10 from the utility.

11 The point I wish to make is that it is no 

12 longer required to hand fossil fuel supplied 

13 plants special treatments which improve their 

14 profits and give them an unfair competitive 

15 advantage at the expense of the public's health 

16 and safety. In the case of carbon emissions we 

17 are talking about the health, safety, and wealth 

18 of the public for generations to come. 

19 I am also a grandfather, and I am gravely 

20 concerned about the future of my children and the 

21 grandchildren face. The idea of allowing an 

22 industry to ignore some of their costs of 
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1 production flies in the face of market 

2 principles. These principles consider waste a 

3 sign of inefficiency, and pollution is certainly 

4 waste. Free markets penalize inefficiency, yet 

5 the energy industry has been rewarded.

6 Again, the key point is there are clean 

7 and efficient alternatives that are struggling to 

8 gain a meaningful share because of the advantages 

9 given to their competition fossil fuels. These 

10 alternatives, like wind and solar, do not produce 

11 these negative externalities like pollution. All 

12 their costs are internalized, and as such, must 

13 find their way into the pricing. Fossil fuels 

14 have been allowed to pollute with much of the 

15 costs not reflected in their price but rather in 

16 the public's taxes as we clean up after them, in 

17 our doctor's bills as we try to recover from the 

18 health effects, and in our insurance premiums as 

19 devastating climate events inflict huge losses.

20 The Stern Review on the Economics of 

21 Climate Change estimates that already one percent 

22 of global GDP is required each year to deal with 
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1 the impacts of climate change. This same report 

2 states, with business as usual we will face an 

3 annual investment exceeding 5 percent of global 

4 GDP. This is unimaginable.

5 With electricity generation one of the 

6 leading contributors of CO2, the positive economic 

7 impact of limiting emissions is huge. As a 

8 professional whose job it was to advance products 

9 and strategies that delivered profits, how much 

10 easier my job would have been if I could have 

11 ignored some of my production costs while my 

12 competitors could not. 

13 The time has come to not allow any 

14 business to dump their garbage on the public. We 

15 are not avoiding costs. We are simply delaying 

16 the payment and, worse yet, shifting the burden 

17 to our children and our grandchildren.

18 If fossil fuels cannot be competitive 

19 without special cost avoidance, I offer that they 

20 do not have a marketable product.

21 In conclusion, while the environmental 

22 and health benefits of limiting carbon pollution 
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1 are well known and by themselves reason enough to 

2 establish these standards, the economic benefits 

3 are equally profound and create a win-win-win 

4 scenario for the public.

5 Thank you.

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Mr. Heinz?

7 MR. HEINZ: Yes, my name is John Heinz. 

8 I'm from Joliet, Illinois. And we have a large 

9 facility there that produces electricity using 

10 coal. And I have seen the limestone pits that 

11 were former quarries where the coal ash is 

12 stored. I am very concerned that this is a very 

13 concentrated form of pollution that is seeping 

14 into our groundwater and, you know, it will take 

15 decades to really come to fruition as to how much 

16 pollution is going to be, you know, there in the 

17 future. But I'm very concerned that the coal as 

18 well as oil is perhaps one of the most polluting 

19 possible forms of energy that is available, and 

20 that there are many other technologies available 

21 that could be developed.

22 I understand that these technologies are 
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1 not easily monetized by large corporations 

2 because they have to be spread out over large 

3 areas and would tend to be used by more 

4 individuals and small corporations and I think 

5 perhaps this is a resistance to the development 

6 of the alternative ways of making energy. But I 

7 feel that they really need to be developed in 

8 order to prevent further pollution of the 

9 environment, and, you know, harm to the citizens 

10 in general.

11 I feel that the development of 

12 alternative methods of producing electricity 

13 would be of far more benefit to the citizenry in 

14 general.

15 Thank you.

16 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

17 Next up can we please have Tom Wolf and 

18 Judith Jonker-Bredeweg?

19 MR. WOLF: Good morning. My name is Tom 

20 Wolf, W-O-L-F like the animal, which people who 

21 know me know that's incorrect, but I'm the 

22 Executive Director of the Energy Council of the 
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1 Illinois Chamber of Commerce. Just so you guys 

2 know, the Council is made up of companies that 

3 generate, transmit, and transport energy or 

4 supply the energy marketplace. We have voices 

5 from the world of crude oil, coal, wind, solar, 

6 nuclear, waste to energy, natural gas, utility 

7 transmission, and engineering interests on the 

8 Council. It's a lot of fun.

9 The Council's goal is to make Illinois a 

10 better place for energy of all kinds because it 

11 creates economic opportunities of all kinds. 

12 When it comes to regulatory oversight, businesses 

13 are looking for a few general goals: 

14 predictability, a sweet spot where interests are 

15 protected and commerce can flourish, benchmarks 

16 that are based by step-by-step improvement and 

17 not leaps of faith, and diversity, not relying on 

18 too much of any one form of energy.

19 We believe the proposed regulations by 

20 the U.S. EPA fall short on some of these goals, 

21 and here is why: The regulation that will allow 

22 the greenhouse gas emissions from future 
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1 generation sets a limit which I believe most 

2 natural gas generators can accommodate with 

3 today's technology but that coal generation 

4 cannot. It seems a bit strange that this magic 

5 limit saves the planet and just so happens to 

6 allow natural gas generation but not coal 

7 generation. We're for natural gas generation. 

8 Everybody, including the Chamber, is excited 

9 about the new natural gas finds across the 

10 country, but it was a few short years ago that we 

11 were talking about importing natural gas. Things 

12 change in ways we cannot predict -- sometimes for 

13 good and sometimes for bad.

14 So from our perspective the regulations 

15 are advocating for natural gas generation and 

16 creating a regulatory wet blanket on future coal 

17 production, in that sense picking winners and 

18 losers.

19 We understand there's a provision in the 

20 EPA regulations for coal companies to average the 

21 greenhouse gas emissions over 30 years, 

22 theoretically allowing them to build a new plant 
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1 and retrofit it with sequestration technology 

2 when and if it becomes available and economical.

3 So there's a claim there's a path forward 

4 for coal in this rule, but we believe the path 

5 runs through the installation of carbon capture 

6 and storage and technology that is still under 

7 development and too expensive for use today. 

8 Though it is promising, it's too expensive today.

9 Given that, what company will be able to 

10 get financing for a new plant that is built on 

11 the hope that that new technology will be 

12 available and affordable at some point in the 

13 future. We don't believe investors will take 

14 that risk.

15 I want to take a moment to comment on how 

16 much cleaner coal production has gotten in the 

17 past three or four decades due to the work of 

18 producers and government together. The Prairie 

19 State Generation Plant that's just about to 

20 become fully operational in southwestern Illinois 

21 produces 50 percent less regulated emissions and 

22 15 percent less greenhouse gas emissions using 
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1 best available control technology, a great step 

2 forward. 

3 However, we believe that these proposed 

4 regulations come at a place, the leap coal 

5 producers are asked to make in these regulations 

6 will be a roadblock to new innovation, not an 

7 incentive. The leap being asked for could result 

8 in companies abandoning coal research and will 

9 lead to other forms of energy leaving us more 

10 vulnerable with fewer supply choices.

11 We agree with the administration 

12 (unintelligible) the importance of inventing new 

13 alternative energy technologies here in America, 

14 but we believe that these regulations -- if the 

15 regulations are enacted, the cleaner coal 

16 technologies will be invented somewhere else or 

17 they won't be invented at all because other 

18 countries that rely on coal are making no -- few, 

19 if any, efforts to limit greenhouse gas 

20 emissions.

21 We are a leader in cleaner coal 

22 technologies today and could be going forward, 
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1 but asking for this leap of faith could squash 

2 our ability to lead the world.

3 Finally, the Chamber is concerned -- and 

4 it's harder to address but imperative under the 

5 concept of predictability. Whatever regulations 

6 come out of this proceeding, they should not 

7 serve as a precursor to regulating greenhouse gas 

8 emissions for the existing plants or provide a 

9 legal trap door for controls to comply with other 

10 regulations.

11 The U.S. EPA has clearly said that they 

12 will not treat modified sources as new and that 

13 they have no plans or timetable for proposing 

14 regulations for existing sources. We ask that 

15 you stay true to that commitment as there will be 

16 voices pushing you back -- pushing you to

17 backtrack on that promise.

18 Since no one can predict the future, we'd 

19 hope the government would create an environment 

20 where all sources of power have a chance to

21 become more efficient and cleaner. We believe 

22 coal should be an important part of that future,
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1 and if regulations allow the industry to 

2 continually improve its production methods, it 

3 can provide opportunities for continued 

4 advancements and economic opportunity at home and 

5 abroad.

6 Thank you for the opportunity to say our 

7 peace, and have a good day.

8 MS. JONKER-BREDEWEG: I am Judith Jonker9 Bredeweg, J-O-N-K-E-R, B-R-E-D-E-W-E-G. I'm from 

10 Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I'm representing West 

11 Michigan Sierra Club and West Michigan 

12 Environmental Action Council.

13 In my profession I taught public health 

14 nursing and also environmental sociology through 

15 UM and other places. Environmental sociology is 

16 a relatively new field where the social and 

17 physical side of this have decided to collaborate 

18 over environmental issues and say if you damage 

19 to the environment, it will have its 

20 consequences.

21 As a teacher of nursing, obviously I'm 

22 very concerned about all the health issues which 
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1 other people have described in better detail than 

2 I will be going into. And those have been around 

3 for a long time, and so has coal burning been 

4 around for a long time. And I'm glad we're 

5 seeing a direct connection.

6 I'm also concerned about the burning of 

7 coal for the generation of electricity and the 

8 effect that that has had on global warming and 

9 climate change, which again, others are going 

10 into much better detail than I am able to go into 

11 right now. 

12 I'm also concerned about the devastation 

13 caused by coal mining. What they're doing, 

14 blowing off the tops of mountains and sending 

15 polluted sediments into the water and destroying 

16 communities. And, in fact, haven't we done this 

17 long enough?

18 I really appreciate how our alternative 

19 options have become better and better, and that 

20 we really need to go in that direction. And we 

21 need some cities for those things.

22 I appreciate to hear what the industry is 
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1 doing to try to improve what it is doing. But I 

2 guess I think most importantly we, as 

3 individuals, need to use less electricity. And 

4 it's so obvious and so easy, and, you know, just 

5 make a change in our lifestyle.

6 I wasn't planning to speak, but I 

7 appreciate the opportunity.

8 Oh, and I have my two T-shirts. Here's 

9 the one everybody else is wearing because we care 

10 about clean air. This is one from a previous 

11 conference and that's focusing on clean 

12 alternative energy. And they don't fit anymore.

13 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

14 I just have two reminders. There are 

15 seats throughout if people in the back would like 

16 to move forward and grab a chair, we'd be happy 

17 to have you join us with a seat.

18 And also, if you have a cell phone or 

19 other electronic device, please turn it off. 

20 Thank you.

21 Okay. Next, Peggy Salazar and Mary 

22 Burnitz.
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1 MS. SALAZAR: My name is Peggy Salazar. 

2 I am a lifelong resident of the southeast side of 

3 Chicago and am also here to represent the 

4 Southeast Environmental Task Force, a small 

5 grassroots environmental organization on the 

6 southeast side.

7 MS. NOONAN: Can you spell your last name 

8 for the record?

9 MS. SALAZAR: Oh, I am sorry. Peggy 

10 Salazar, S-A-L-A-Z-A-R. Okay.

11 I'm here to let you know, let the EPA 

12 know, that the Task Force supports these new 

13 regulations because we, on the southeast side of 

14 Chicago -- as anyone is familiar with the area 

15 knows that we have an historical -- we have a 

16 history of dirty polluting industry. We had 

17 steel mills. Interestingly enough we had a 

18 number of old coal gasification plants that have 

19 polluted the property and contaminated the 

20 property. We had all industries that supported 

21 the steel industry like lime kilns and chemical 

22 plants, and I mean, it's just -- we had all types 
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1 of toxic industry down there.

2 We currently continue to be zoned for 

3 heavy industry which has resulted in a 

4 concentration of industries that are still 

5 polluting that have a cumulative impact when it 

6 comes to emissions that many times are 

7 overlooked.

8 So we're hoping that these standards, 

9 these new standards, would take our country in 

10 the direction and begin the small steps of 

11 weaning ourselves off of dirty energy like coal. 

12 Coal, in our opinion, can never be clean because 

13 as long as it has or generates emissions when 

14 it's processed that are polluting or there are 

15 toxic waste products, we don't see how we can 

16 claim that coal is clean.

17 In addition, when you transport coal, 

18 when you handle coal, when you store coal, there 

19 is fugitive coal dust that is airborne, and it 

20 blankets communities like ours where they store 

21 mountains of coal. No one even considers that in 

22 the equations. 
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1 And I have a photo here that I'd be happy 

2 to just kind of briefly show you of siding that's 

3 covered in coal dust. And here is a street 

4 adjacent to KCBS Coal Storage Yard that's just 

5 covered with black mud. So you can see how this 

6 coal dust is just everywhere. So it's no wonder 

7 that communities like ours have high rates of 

8 asthma, and no one even considers the coal dust 

9 in the equation. 

10 So we definitely hope that the EPA will 

11 consider these new regulations. We are hopeful 

12 that that means that the air in our community 

13 will be a little cleaner and also that they won't 

14 bring any additional industries that will 

15 continue to pollute on the level that is going on 

16 now.

17 Thank you.

18 MS. BURNITZ: Good morning. My name is 

19 Mary Burnitz. I am a founder and director of a 

20 local grassroots group called CARE, Citizens 

21 Against Ruining the Environment.

22 I live in the shadow of a dirty, 
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1 polluting coal plant. And as this gal has just 

2 said, the -- that's never taken in the equation, 

3 the ash that covers our home, that we breathe, to 

4 -- I have five children. To hold my youngest 

5 daughter while she struggles to breathe is 

6 heartbreaking.

7 Clean air is a fundamental right. And I 

8 feel that big polluters, big industry is stealing 

9 that from us -- not just myself, my neighbors, 

10 everyone who lives in the United States, everyone 

11 who lives in the world -- we're all affected.

12 Coal-fired power plants produce 

13 electricity for the nation's power grid, but they 

14 also produce more hazardous air emissions than 

15 any other industrial polluting source. Over 

16 386,000 tons of 84 separate hazardous air 

17 pollutions spew from over 400 plants in 46 

18 states. Air pollution has no boundaries.

19 The Clean Air Act requires the EPA to set 

20 ambient air quality standards for widespread air 

21 pollutants listed by the EPA often called 

22 criteria pollutants.
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1 I urge you to do the right thing for the 

2 people of Illinois and implement correct carbon 

3 standards on any new facilities. The decisions 

4 that you make have life and death consequences 

5 for the people here and throughout the United 

6 States. Why is it that profit for big money 

7 companies have more of an impact than the lives 

8 of all of us? We're all affected.

9 Carbon standards hopefully will be 

10 implemented. Unlike the SO2's that were set in 

11 1971, the last review of 1996 -- it's now 2012. 

12 When are the people of this country going to be 

13 protected?

14 Thank you.

15 MS. NOONAN: Now as I mentioned, if there 

16 is anyone in the back who would like to have a 

17 seat, there are seats that we you folks could 

18 fill in.

19 And our next two speakers, could we 

20 please have Steve Francis and Tracey McFadden. 

21 And then on deck would be Reuben Keller and Kelly 

22 Pierce.
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1 MR. FRANCIS: Thank you for holding this 

2 hearing and I came down on the electric train 

3 from South Bend, saving greenhouse gases along 

4 the way; but I also recognize that it runs -- at 

5 least in Indiana -- on 95 percent coal. So, you 

6 know, it really doesn't save as much as one might 

7 think. And I applaud the EPA for posing this 

8 rule.

9 I'm a consultant in a company that I run 

10 and President of, a sustainable energy and 

11 economic development in South Bend, Indiana, and 

12 consult on numerous sustainable economic 

13 development projects, am a member of the -- or 

14 chair of the Green Energy Committee for a Mayoral 

15 Green Ribbon Commission in South Bend, Indiana, 

16 although I'm not speaking for that group or for 

17 the city; but one thing we ran into and often run 

18 into in projects is that when we try to factor in 

19 greenhouse gases and emissions into projects --

20 economic development projects, city projects --

21 was that we can only go so far on energy 

22 efficiency, and we run into a brick wall because 
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1 we recognize that in Indiana, you know, a large 

2 percentage, a majority of electricity is produced 

3 through coal plants. And I think we recognize 

4 that while we need to do some renewables from the 

5 city's standpoint and from project standpoints, 

6 but then we run into problems in terms of 

7 avoiding costs that the utilities offer us in 

8 terms of renewables, and, therefore, they are not 

9 economic in the State of Indiana under the 

10 regulatory system and the federal regulatory 

11 system.

12 I support the effort wholeheartedly. I 

13 think we've got to wrestle with this issue in 

14 this nation and around the world. I think that 

15 the planet can't wait, and I applaud the EPA for 

16 doing so.

17 However, I do think that there are 

18 several problems and concerns that I have with 

19 this rule, and I'll go into more detail in 

20 written comments. I can't go into them here 

21 today, but as an economist I always taught my 

22 students that -- tried to drill into them there's 
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1 no such thing as a free lunch. And that's the 

2 basis of most economic theory and policy.

3 And in this case what you're saying is 

4 that there's no real cost to these regulation in 

5 your proposed rule, which -- and that -- it would 

6 happen almost anyway outside of the rule because 

7 of the low price of natural gas. Unfortunately, 

8 I think it -- to some extent then that kind of 

9 negates the rationale for having a rule because 

10 there is a cost to not reducing greenhouse gases 

11 even beyond what this proposed rule would 

12 achieve. And I'm recognizing it would slow the 

13 rate of growth, but it will not achieve the 

14 necessary reductions in the future that would 

15 mitigate the cost of climate change that we're 

16 going to experience now and are experiencing and 

17 will experience in the future.

18 So, I think one specific item in here in 

19 terms of CCS, I think that Edwardsport Plant in 

20 Indiana is a cautionary tale. We were promised 

21 when that plant was proposed and approved by the 

22 IURC in Indiana, the regulatory commission, that 
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1 it received public subsidies, that it would have 

2 CCS and carbon capture and storage. It is 

3 nowhere to be seen at this point as the plant 

4 goes on line. The costs are too high according 

5 to the plant manufacturer, the utility. And all 

6 of those public subsidies went for naught or went 

7 into a study that determined that it was not 

8 feasible at this point in time. So that plant is 

9 a CCS-ready plant, but it's going to vent 4 

10 million tons of greenhouse gases to the 

11 atmosphere in Indiana for the foreseeable future 

12 and will not be regulated, of course, under this 

13 rule.

14 So, CCS is a problem because you've got a 

15 rule that says in the future you can offset --

16 you can pollute more now but offset it on down 

17 the line. However, there's no guaranty that that 

18 will be available, that technology will be 

19 available, that they'll be able to put those 

20 through in terms of regulatory structures within 

21 the states, that they will be approved in terms 

22 of least cost alternatives. 
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1 And I would suggest that you look 

2 seriously, if it's possible within this 

3 rulemaking, to add renewables as a possible 

4 solution to that problem. That is, there is no 

5 advantage to a utility producing or constructing 

6 renewable power plants under this rule that I can 

7 see. And I haven't read it all, but I promise 

8 to.

9 But there is a penalty if they go over 

10 the 1,000 pound per megawatt hour. And, 

11 therefore, it tilts the scale towards coal with 

12 CCS and, of course, natural gas. And it doesn't 

13 give any advantage to non-carbon polluting 

14 sources or power plants such as renewables that I 

15 can see. Now maybe that will come on down the 

16 line at some future point.

17 I see I'm at the end of my time. I would 

18 say that the political climate in this country is 

19 perhaps not accepting of anything stronger. I 

20 would encourage the EPA to link the benefits of 

21 stronger regulation with this rule. The 

22 planetary climate cannot wait.
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1 Thank you.

2 MS. NOONAN: And just as a follow-up, if 

3 you have any legal or engineering analysis that 

4 you want to include in your comments about how to

5 link renewables within the new source proposal,

6 that would be excellent.

7 MR. FRANCIS: I will do so. And mainly 

8 my expertise is economic, but --

9 MS. NOONAN: [Inaudible.]

10 MR. McFADDEN: Good morning. My name is 

11 Tracey McFadden. I'm a captain for American 

12 Airlines based here in Chicago.

13 Before I begin, I want to thank you for 

14 the opportunity to speak on this very important 

15 issue, creating limits for carbon pollution in 

16 coal-fired plants.

17 I feel this new standard will have a 

18 monumental impact on the health and well being of 

19 every American. And I also want to mention that 

20 I very much appreciate the work that the EPA is 

21 doing on a day-to-day basis for the health of all 

22 Americans. I know that's sometimes a tireless 
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1 and thankless job. Appreciate that.

2 But by taking this historic step of 

3 creating the first-ever limits on carbon 

4 pollution, I think the EPA would be protecting 

5 myself, my family, my grandchildren, and my 

6 grandchildren's children so -- from harm.

7 And I think the harm comes in the form 

8 not only in air pollution but, of course, global 

9 warming has been mentioned. Our planet, I 

10 believe, is reaching a crisis stage of which 

11 there is no return. And only by taking an 

12 aggressive approach to climate change can we 

13 protect ourselves. And I see limiting carbon 

14 pollution from new power plants is just such a 

15 step. This is our putting the man on the moon 

16 moment as I see it.

17 We can solve pollution as well as climate 

18 problems, but we need the will to do so. And I 

19 think with this -- that the EPA is showing that 

20 they do have the will. And this is a huge 

21 challenge for all Americans to take these steps 

22 to ensure this healthy future for our children 
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1 and I can see that the leadership provided the 

2 EPA will spill over in to other areas. I think 

3 this is just a beginning.

4 Setting the standard -- I would also say 

5 setting the example and this action will not only 

6 solve the problem, it's going to motivate others 

7 to action. And these actions include, of course, 

8 reducing consumption and encouraging the use of 

9 reusables such as solar and wind.

10 And it also shows, I think very 

11 importantly that the EPA is on the side of all 

12 Americans without taking any political position. 

13 It's critical, I think, that the EPA be the 

14 enforcers of the pollution standards, as American 

15 citizens depend on our government -- on you -- to 

16 protect us from these types of harm.

17 As an Air Force pilot and in the first 

18 Gulf War, I felt it was my duty to serve the 

19 country, and I took upon that responsibility. 

20 And right now I feel just as today the EPA is 

21 called upon to serve our country in its time of 

22 need. 
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1 And there are areas in our society I feel 

2 that cannot be self-policed, and this is one 

3 area. I think the underlying motive for a power 

4 plant is always going to be profit, so it's 

5 understandable that they cannot put the public 

6 health first, that it's going to end up being a 

7 distant second.

8 So, by creating these limits on carbon 

9 pollution, I don't feel this is hampering power 

10 plants. I don't think it's hampering their 

11 ability to carry out their business because this 

12 is just like a business constraint. In any 

13 business you have the cost of doing business, 

14 whether it be building materials, labor, 

15 recurring costs. And American ingenuity and 

16 know-how will allow power plants to function just 

17 the way they -- you know, to work and produce 

18 power. But they're all going to have to play by 

19 a standard set of rules. And that kind of levels 

20 the playing field.

21 And as a nation I feel we've got to move 

22 away from our dependence on coal. The negative 
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1 effects on our environment which have been 

2 outlined here many times and the health of our 

3 citizens due to coal pollution cannot be 

4 overstated. And the proposal creates these 

5 limits on carbon pollution, I believe, is a --

6 quote -- giant leap for mankind. And I cannot 

7 thank you enough for these new protections being

8 considered, and I fully support all of your 

9 efforts. Thank you.

10 MR. NOONAN: Thank you both.

11 Next up, please, Reuben Keller and Kelly 

12 Pierce.

13 MR. KELLER: Thank you very much for 

14 coming to Chicago to hear us, and thank you for 

15 having me to speak.

16 My name is Reuben --

17 MS. NOONAN: Spell your name, too.

18 MR. KELLER: Oh, Reuben Keller, R-E-U-B19 E-N, Keller, K-E-L-L-E-R.

20 I'm an ecologist and I'm a professor at 

21 Loyola University, Chicago. And most of the work 

22 that I do concerns invasive species, and I do a 
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1 lot of work trying to predict which species will 

2 become invasive in the future because we know 

3 from --

4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can't hear.

5 MR. KELLER: Okay. You got my mike 

6 right. 

7 My name is Reuben --

8 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not talking 

9 into --

10 MS. NOONAN: Let's take a five-minute 

11 recess and we'll sort this out. 

12 [Break from 11:12 a.m. to 11:20 a.m.]

13 MS. NOONAN: Once again, Mr. Keller.

14 MR. KELLER: Reuben Keller, R-E-U-B-E-N, 

15 Keller, K-E-L-L-E-R.

16 I'm an ecologist and a professor at 

17 Loyola University here in Chicago. Most of my 

18 research is looking at invasive species, and 

19 especially -- my specialty is looking at invasive 

20 species in aquatic ecosystems. So I'm interested 

21 in species that exist beyond their native range, 

22 and I'm interested in the types of problems that 
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1 they have. And it's well known from the wide 

2 body of research that these are invasive species 

3 and now one of the major drivers of biodiversity 

4 loss across the globe; and they also cause 

5 massive impacts to economies and to human health. 

6 So anything that further spreads invasive species 

7 is something that we should all be concerned 

8 about.

9 And over the history of the discipline --

10 and this is reflected in the history of my work, 

11 we've not only thought about invasive species as 

12 things that are spread by human action. So in 

13 the Great Lakes, for example, we're still very 

14 concerned about the impact of ships coming in and 

15 bringing in new species in ballast water. 

16 What we're increasingly seeing and what 

17 we're increasingly having to deal with in 

18 invasion biology is the spread of species not by 

19 direct human action but by the indirect human 

20 action of climate change. 

21 As climates are changing, species are 

22 able to expand their range into areas where 
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1 they've never been before. And when they do 

2 that, they become non-native and they have the 

3 potential to have very large impacts.

4 So we're seeing both the spread of 

5 species that we consider to be invasive, so 

6 species that came from outside the United States, 

7 have been here for a long time, but have set up 

8 sort of quite well-defined ranges. We're seeing 

9 them begin to spread as climate is generally 

10 warming, especially across this part of the 

11 world. And we're also seeing native species 

12 which have been kept in their range by climatic 

13 factors being able to spread. And both of those 

14 groups of species we're coming to see can have 

15 very large impacts.

16 So one example that I can give which I'm 

17 quite familiar with is Hydrilla. This is a water 

18 weed. It grows in extremely high densities. 

19 It's a serious invader. And for a long time we 

20 thought that it was a serious invader in very 

21 warm climates. It's been in the southern U.S. 

22 for a long time. Florida spends millions of 
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1 dollars a year on control. We thought that we'd 

2 never see it in the Great Lakes region, but then 

3 a couple of years ago it turned up in Indiana. 

4 And the Indiana Department of Natural Resources 

5 and their associated programs and spent well over 

6 a million dollars over the last several years 

7 trying to eradicate one population of Hydrilla in 

8 one lake. And we're actually seeing it turn up 

9 in other lakes around Indiana as well. So this 

10 is an example of a species that we thought we 

11 knew everything about its biology, and we thought 

12 we know about how far north it could go; but with 

13 these changing climates we're discovering that it 

14 can go further north.

15 Another example which is building and 

16 which I think we'll hear a lot more about in 

17 future is the degradation of lake trout in Lake 

18 Superior by sea lamprey. So the lake trout 

19 population in Lake Superior is one of the last 

20 great native fisheries in the Great Lakes, and 

21 one of the reasons it's been able to persist in 

22 Lake Superior is because the water is very cold. 
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1 And that both favors lake trout life cycles and 

2 it also disfavors -- it's a negative for the sea 

3 lamprey. The sea lamprey is an invasive parasite 

4 of large fish. 

5 So what we're beginning to see now in 

6 Lake Superior and what will accelerate over time 

7 as Lake Superior continues to warm is that lake 

8 trout are doing worse. They are more stressed, 

9 and this makes them more susceptible to sea 

10 lamprey degradation. Not only are they more 

11 susceptible to degradation and parasitism by sea 

12 lamprey, but sea lamprey are getting more 

13 numerous and they're getting bigger because the 

14 warmer -- the warmer water favors them. So we're 

15 seeing this real double whammy that is -- that is 

16 taking a toll on one of these last great native 

17 fisheries in the Great Lakes.

18 So these are two examples, Hydrilla and 

19 the lake trout and the sea lamprey. They're two 

20 examples from the aquatic realm because that's 

21 where I work, but I could give and others could 

22 give many examples of where we're going to see 
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1 and where we're already seeing increasing 

2 impacts, ecological, economic, human health 

3 impacts of invasive species that are being 

4 brought about by these changing climates.

5 And of course changing climates are 

6 caused in -- they are caused primarily we know 

7 by anthropogenic releases of greenhouse gases. 

8 So I support the efforts of the EPA to try to 

9 control these releases of greenhouse gases, and I 

10 support the actions that are being taken.

11 On a personal note, forgetting that I'm 

12 an ecologist, I have two young children. I love 

13 taking them to places in the wilderness and 

14 taking them hiking in places where I've been 

15 before, showing them these environments that are 

16 very important to me. I would love to be able to 

17 continue to do that 40 and 50 years from now and 

18 that depends very much on countries like the 

19 United States reducing their emissions of new 

20 greenhouse gases so that those environments that 

21 are valuable to me are not changed by changing 

22 climates and by these new species moving through.
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1 Thank you very much for your time.

2 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Mr. Pierce.

3 MR. PIERCE: Thank you. My name is Kelly 

4 Pierce, and I'm a Chicago resident. I live in 

5 the Lakeview neighborhood on the north side of 

6 Chicago.

7 I come here today because I am fully in 

8 support of the carbon rule as proposed by the 

9 Environmental Protection Agency. I have read 

10 through this rule and believe personally that it 

11 will help me very much as well as my community.

12 In the last few years I have had several 

13 health conditions that have developed, one of 

14 which has been -- actually, several glandular 

15 issues that cause weak glandular functioning of 

16 my adrenal system and my thyroid. Upon further 

17 examination what has happened most likely upon a 

18 hair tissue mineral analysis that was taken 

19 earlier this year when I eventually saw another 

20 health care practitioner up in Evanston was that 

21 I had excessive levels of mercury in my system.

22 Mercury interferes with the functioning 
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1 of the thyroid and the endocrine system in 

2 general. The largest sources of mercury in the 

3 Chicago area -- the largest single sources of 

4 mercury emissions in the Chicago area and of 

5 carbon are the coal-fired power plants such as 

6 the two here in Chicago, fortunately that will be 

7 closing later this year. The State Line Plant in 

8 northwest Indiana and the other coal plants in 

9 the suburbs such as those in Waukegan in Will 

10 County and in Joliet.

11 These big carbon emitters interfere with 

12 the health and as well create gases, some of 

13 which lies carbon dioxide that actually put a lid 

14 or put a cap on the -- from the gases escaping 

15 into the rest of the atmosphere and creating a 

16 warming effect here in Chicago.

17 I live in a home built in 1886, 15 years 

18 after the Chicago Fire. And for obvious reasons 

19 it doesn't have air conditioning. It has high 

20 ceilings. And it's the only -- one of the only 

21 single-family homes left in the Lakeview 

22 community that's still intact, that hasn't been 
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1 chopped up.

2 And at this point the summers have 

3 changed since I've lived there in -- started 

4 living there in 1987. The summers have become 

5 so, so much warmer, near hundred degree 

6 temperatures these days are very regular in the 

7 last five years. The temperatures are so warm 

8 and so hot it's impossible to use the second 

9 story of our bungalow home -- it's so hot. It's 

10 so hot that it's not even possible -- that's 

11 where my computer is, and a computer for me as a 

12 blind person is everything. It allows me to 

13 access the world and to read the newspaper, to 

14 read books. But for good stretches of the summer 

15 I'm not even able to go up there it's so hot 

16 because our summers have changed. They've become 

17 so substantially warmer and at this point it's to 

18 the point of thinking about moving, selling the 

19 home, letting a developer take it over, tear it 

20 up, build whatever they're going to build, and 

21 then live [sic] into a building with air 

22 conditioning to actually tolerate Chicago 
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1 summers. That's what's happened. That's what's 

2 changed. That's why this regulation is needed. 

3 When 90-degree humid summers are a regularity, 

4 but are we going to -- now what will be the next 

5 decade or two? Hundred-degree humid summers, 

6 hundred and ten degree humid summers. 

7 At some point this regulation is 

8 absolutely needed to stop this madness, to end 

9 this out of control spiraling warming effect 

10 that's happening, to begin to do something about 

11 the health effects and effects to our community 

12 that's making Chicago where I live, frankly, an 

13 unlivable place during large stretches of the 

14 year. 

15 That's why I'm here, and that's why I'm 

16 really urging the EPA to adopt the carbon rule as 

17 it was proposed in April and maintain -- and 

18 adopt that and put it in final form.

19 Thank you for your time today.

20 MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much. Thank 

21 you both.

22 Next up we have Dr. John Bodine and 
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1 Robert Hudson, please.

2 MR. BODINE: My name is John Bodine, B-O3 D-I-N-E. I'm a resident of Naperville, Illinois, 

4 and I'm here to support the EPA regulations for 

5 carbon emissions.

6 I have a background in nuclear 

7 engineering from the U.S. Navy, a Ph.D. in 

8 geophysics, and worked with B P Amoco Corporation 

9 for 18 years as an oil and gas explorationist. I 

10 then made a career shift to join a Chicago-area 

11 manufacturing company managing business systems 

12 as a chief information officer.

13 This blend of engineering, science, and 

14 business experience has provided me a strong 

15 basis for understanding the tradeoffs and 

16 challenges we face with environmental issues 

17 today. 

18 When I retired from my CIO position in 

19 2008, I committed to educating myself on the 

20 facts concerning climate change so I could be a 

21 resource in my community on the issues. I'm 

22 motivated by wanting to ensure that our world is 
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1 a decent place to live for our grandchildren and 

2 future generations.

3 I'm also associated with the Northern 

4 Illinois Conference of the United Methodist 

5 Church which represents 25,000 members who 

6 believe that being good stewards of the earth is 

7 part of their moral obligation. We want to 

8 prosper but in a healthy world.

9 Climate and weather are complex 

10 processes, difficult to perceive and understand 

11 on a global scale; but I've come to understand 

12 that the strong impact of human activities on 

13 climate has been clear for at least 20 years. 

14 Scientific evidence continues to build to reveal 

15 that unrestrained pollution of air and water are 

16 putting us at a level of climate change risk 

17 never previously experienced by humans.

18 Evidence of past geologic events of 

19 comparable magnitude and scale have been clearly 

20 associated with mass extinctions of diverse life 

21 forms. We've been on a very bad path, but I now 

22 think we're beginning to turn in the right 
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1 direction. We're struggling as individuals, as 

2 communities, and as a nation to change our 

3 culture, our habits, our economic dependencies to 

4 avoid the worst effects of heating our planet.

5 With this sense of the challenge to 

6 transform our approach to how we live in the 

7 world, I applaud the EPA for their work in 

8 bringing forward the proposed carbon pollution 

9 standard for new power plants. I'm not sure if 

10 the degree of constraint is enough. I would 

11 encourage us to go as far as we can with that in 

12 order to turn around these negative effects from 

13 carbon pollution.

14 It's common sense to inhibit further 

15 exposure to air pollutants from power plants when 

16 the adverse effects of carbon emissions and other 

17 contaminants are so well understood. It is the 

18 role of government to help maintain the balance 

19 between health and prosperity through policy and 

20 incentives. 

21 The proposed standards are well designed 

22 to avoid negative economic impact while at the 
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1 same time providing great latitude in the 

2 cogeneration energy companies can take in 

3 producing power.

4 I also support applying similar standards 

5 to existing power plants, knowing that we must do 

6 everything we can to eliminate excessive carbon 

7 pollution.

8 America has a capacity for great 

9 innovation and transformational change. Our 

10 national culture is one of aggressive ambition 

11 and individualism. And finding common purpose 

12 can often be a challenge. When we do find common 

13 purpose, however, we've shown we can change the 

14 world.

15 Leadership has never been more in need 

16 than now as we face some of the greatest global 

17 challenges for ensuring prosperity and health for 

18 future generations.

19 Thank you.

20 MR. HUDSON: My name is Robert Hudson. 

21 I’m an associate professor in the Department of 

22 Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences at 
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1 the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana.

2 MS. NOONAN: And spell your name. Spell 

3 your name.

4 MR. HUDSON: Oh, R-O-B-E-R-T, H-U-D-S-O5 N.

6 As a father, a resident of Illinois, a 

7 U.S. citizen, and an associate professor, I am 

8 grateful for this opportunity to express my 

9 strong support for EPA proposed rule limiting 

10 carbon dioxide emissions from new power plants.

11 I spent my career working on pollution 

12 issues related to the generation of power, 

13 especially from coal. Much of this work has been 

14 funded by the electric power industry, and I 

15 applaud them for the good basic science that EPRI 

16 and other organizations have done on a range of 

17 issues from acid rain to mercury pollution to 

18 climate change.

19 But sometimes the doctor needs to tell 

20 the patient to take more steps, and this is such 

21 a time. I have a great understanding of the 

22 contribution of human activities that are rapidly 
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1 increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the 

2 atmosphere in personal and professional 

3 priorities since the early 1990's.

4 When I began my study, I felt reassured 

5 by the overwhelming evidence showing that humans 

6 are the sole cause of the current trend in

7 atmospheric CO2 levels. Why was that reassuring? 

8 I was confident that since our responsibility was 

9 so clear, surely humankind led by the United 

10 States would collect the data and develop the 

11 sophisticated models needed to guide the world to 

12 a soft landing before climate change got out of 

13 hand and our children's future was endangered.

14 But unfortunately, I no longer feel that 

15 way at all. In fact, I'm worried sick. Yes, 

16 scientists have conducted the essential research 

17 and developed the needed models. And many of the 

18 world's main emitters of CO2 are acting to reduce 

19 their emissions, but here, in the U.S., we find 

20 it difficult to take even modest steps such as 

21 implementing this new rule when the science tells 

22 us that we need to move in leaps and bounds 
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1 toward a low carbon economy.

2 Why do we resist? I'm not a social 

3 scientist, but from what opponents of regulating 

4 CO2 emissions like Senator Inhofe say, it appears 

5 that some people find it difficult to accept 

6 higher costs now in order to avoid seemingly 

7 uncertain future damages.

8 Perhaps they are over confident having 

9 learned that we can clean up polluted lakes and 

10 rivers at least to some extent after we see 

11 clearly the consequences of polluting natural 

12 systems. After all, why waste money on 

13 preventative measures when natural processes 

14 sometimes clean up much of our mess anyway. But 

15 climate change will not be as easy to reverse as 

16 polluted lakes and rivers or any other 

17 environmental problem we're familiar with.

18 Carbon dioxide pollution has and will 

19 recycle through the atmosphere and surface ocean 

20 for a long time. And, in fact, if we don't 

21 dramatically change the course of our current 

22 business as usual emissions trajectory we may at 
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1 least on the time scale of human generations 

2 permanently change the global climate.

3 Perhaps the other reason that we hesitate 

4 to act is that we're used to thinking of our 

5 nation as exceptional, on the right side of 

6 history, and divinely blessed. How could we --

7 how could we be doing any harm when we're acting 

8 within our rights and have God on our side? Most 

9 of us can't even conceive of asking a question 

10 such as what responsibility we, the nation that 

11 has emitted the most CO2 of any nation over the 

12 last two centuries, might have for the plight of 

13 people in parts of the world most affected by 

14 climate change. We need to ask ourselves what 

15 will become of our moral authority as the only 

16 global superpower if the most noble exceptional 

17 aspect of our country becomes our refusal to help 

18 stabilize a common global power system. Will we 

19 open the borders to our spacious open lands when 

20 rising sea levels drives millions from their 

21 homes in Bangladesh and elsewhere?

22 And closer to home, recent science 
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1 indicates that we can no longer afford to be 

2 sanguine of our own prospects of the changing 

3 climate. Do we really want to make the drought 

4 in Texas last year the new normal? Farmers there 

5 suffered billions of dollars in crop losses. 

6 Forecasts of persistent drought across the 

7 American southwest adds many other downsides to a 

8 changing climate also suggest a higher potential 

9 toll.

10 Ultimately I do believe that American 

11 people will respond, but will we do so in time? 

12 We owe a tremendous thank you to Administrator 

13 Jackson and the EPA for starting us in the right 

14 direction now.

15 Some that oppose this rule, like 

16 Congressman Sensenbrenner, argue that CO2 is 

17 natural, therefore, not a pollutant that EPA 

18 should regulate. After all, each of us emits CO2

19 with every breath, don't we? Admittedly 

20 politicians cannot all be expected to understand 

21 the difference between CO2 emissions from 

22 breathing which closes the rapid atmospheric --
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1 the atmosphere food and atmosphere loop in the 

2 carbon cycle and for burning fossil fuels which 

3 returns ancient geologically sequestered carbon 

4 into circulation.

5 But I hope the debate in Congress over 

6 this new rule will at least get the politicians 

7 and the citizens of this land to listen to 

8 scientists such as those at EPA long enough to 

9 get their facts straight. People need to 

10 understand that it is possible to have too much 

11 of a good thing, and when that occurs, it is 

12 perfectly appropriate to call it pollution.

13 While the preceding comments express my 

14 personal perspective, I should add that to the 

15 best of my knowledge, this new rule is consistent 

16 with actions needed to reduce the growth in 

17 atmospheric CO2 levels advocated by scientists 

18 from virtually every academic discipline involved 

19 in the study of the environment and climate.

20 It is a modest step, one that requires 

21 new power plants to be as efficient as those 

22 burning natural gas. It makes Illinois coal less 
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1 economically viable, but the value of preserving 

2 our climate is well worth the price of reducing 

3 the development of this resource. At the very 

4 least new coal plants should wait until CCS can 

5 be shown viable.

6 MS. NOONAN: We could take the rest of 

7 your comments --

8 MR. HUDSON: Okay.

9 MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much.

10 MR. HUDSON: Thank you.

11 MS. NOONAN: Next up, could we please 

12 have Bill Moore and Dick Munson?

13 MR. MOORE: Hi, I'm Bill Moore. I am 

14 from New Berlin, Wisconsin, and the last name is 

15 M-O-O-R-E.

16 First, thank you for taking the bull by 

17 the horns and creating the first step to truly 

18 regulate coal plants. While it's too bad that 

19 these steps were not begun 40 years ago after the 

20 Clean Air Act was adopted, still better late than 

21 never.

22 Second, since the reason we are here is 
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1 that carbon pollution contributes to global 

2 warming, I strongly suggest that you remember 

3 that 97 percent of climate scientists believe 

4 that global warming is happening, that it is 

5 mostly caused by human-created pollution and that 

6 it is harmful both to us and to the planet. The 

7 other 3 percent are mostly either employed or 

8 influenced by the pollutant industries. Climate 

9 deniers are just plain wrong.

10 I am fortunate to live in a clean 

11 conservative suburb without a power plant nearby. 

12 Our Mayor even signed the Seattle sponsored U.S. 

13 Mayors Climate Protection Agreement.

14 People in my city want the power 

15 generated by those plants, but they don't want to 

16 live near them. A few years ago a peak power 

17 plant fueled by natural gas was proposed for my 

18 city of New Berlin. The outcry was more than 

19 loud, raucous enough for the plant to be denied 

20 the required permits. Even though natural gas is 

21 cleaner than coal, suburbanites complained not in 

22 my back yard; put it in someone else's back yard. 
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1 So, whose back yard? Near those who don't have 

2 political clout? Near homes populated by 

3 minorities? Even if you think the answer is yes 

4 and can live well away from pollution sources, 

5 you really can't escape the pollution.

6 I'm a retired airline pilot. When I 

7 started flying in 1967, I noticed the average 

8 town with a haze layer was about 3,000 feet above 

9 the ground. Over the years I recognized that 

10 that haze was mostly particulate pollution that 

11 also contained other harmful substances like 

12 carbon dioxide. 

13 But because the Clean Air Act has not 

14 really been well enforced until now, that haze 

15 and pollution layer now tops out at an average of 

16 10,000 feet. That, to me, is unacceptable and 

17 preventable.

18 I'm bemused by the T-shirts I see that 

19 say America Counts on Coal. That truly is a 

20 fact. It sadly is a fact. We count on it to 

21 make open pit mining to destroy our land, to 

22 remove our mountaintops in West Virginia and 
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1 Pennsylvania, pollute our waterways as tailings 

2 are dumped in the valleys, eliminate the animal 

3 habitat, pollute our air with extraction and 

4 transportation, pollute our air as it creates 

5 energy for us, and then we count on coal to 

6 pollute afterwards as we try to protect our 

7 citizens from coal ash as we see around the Oak 

8 Creek Power Plant in Wisconsin where We Energies 

9 supplies nearby residents with bottled water 

10 because coal ash pollutes their wells.

11 But we can count on clean energy. Jobs 

12 can move from coal to clean energy. Counting on 

13 dirty energy is just not in anybody's best 

14 interest.

15 So, thank you, EPA, Lisa Jackson, and 

16 President Obama for finally doing what is right 

17 and should have been done by many prior 

18 administrations. Enact the thousand pound rule. 

19 Encourage may require clean energy.

20 MR. MUNSON: Good morning. My name is 

21 Dick Munson, M-U-N-S-O-N. I'm Senior Vice22 President of Recycled Energy Development. We're 
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1 a co-generation waste energy developer based here 

2 in Chicago.

3 And my basic message is to commend EPA 

4 for recognizing the economic and environmental 

5 benefits of efficiency. There have been numerous 

6 studies, including your own MACT Sensitivity 

7 Study that looks at the reality that efficiency 

8 reduces waste, reduces pollution, and also saves 

9 money.

10 And a focus with new rules in the utility 

11 sector, the power plant sector on efficiency are 

12 desperately needed because this is an industry 

13 that wastes two-thirds of the fuel input to 

14 produce electricity, and that 33 percent 

15 efficiency has not improved by a single 

16 percentage point since Herbert Hoover was in the 

17 White House.

18 I also commend the EPA for changing its 

19 metric for measuring pollution on an output-based 

20 standard. That approach, as I think you 

21 appreciate, encourages efficiency by rewarding 

22 those generators that produce more megawatt hours 
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1 and discourages those generators that produce 

2 more pollution.

3 So, great commendations. I'm going to 

4 also suggest two changes to your rule if I might 

5 and then respond to two of your questions. The 

6 changes would deal with issue of thermal energy 

7 and your, I think, too narrow definition of 

8 combined heat and power. 

9 On the issue of thermal energy, my 

10 commendations to you to recognize that indeed 

11 power plants emit two products. One is 

12 electricity and one is heat. And unfortunately, 

13 the utility industry or power industry in this 

14 country usually throws the heat away. And that 

15 waste costs money. So, EPA, I think, recognizes 

16 that the generation of heat and power together 

17 accounts for 69 percent of the CO2 emissions in 

18 this country. That's five times more than all 

19 pollution coming from all the cars on the road. 

20 So this -- if you want to tackle carbon, you go 

21 after where the carbon is, and two-thirds of it -

22 - more than two-thirds of it is coming from the 
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1 generation of electricity and heat. And there 

2 are enormous potentials to reduce waste and 

3 increase efficiency.

4 I would encourage the EPA, which 

5 implicitly defined gross output to include 

6 thermal energy, to be more explicit about that 

7 and include something to reference it in your 

8 preamble. Moreover, I would encourage you to not 

9 arbitrarily limit credits for thermal energy to 

10 only 75 percent. If, indeed, you want to 

11 encourage the efficient generation of both heat 

12 and power, why limit things?

13 My second comment is on the draft rule's 

14 narrow definition of combined heat and power or 

15 cogeneration. First, I want to commend you for 

16 recognizing its efficient attributes, but I would 

17 encourage you to delete the word steam as a 

18 descriptive term of CHP generating units because 

19 some cogeneration units use things like hot oil 

20 or other media to do cogeneration. And to be 

21 limiting I think just -- you miss a few 

22 opportunities.
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1 Second, I'd encourage EPA to follow the 

2 example of a lot of states and do different 

3 definitions for what is topping cycle or fuel4 fired combined heat and power and bottoming cycle 

5 cogeneration or waste heat recovery. They have 

6 different attributes and different benefits, and 

7 I think deserve different definitions in your 

8 rule.

9 And then, finally, I would encourage you 

10 to be strict on your standard for cogeneration. 

11 Don't let, you know, a lousy cogeneration unit or 

12 inefficient ones get away. So encourage -- you 

13 know, perhaps use the tax code which says that 

14 cogeneration units need to be at least 60 percent 

15 efficient and at least 20 percent of their units'

16 output needs to be in the form of their 

17 (unintelligible) applications.

18 In response to several of your questions, 

19 let me just touch on two. You asked about the 

20 wisdom of adopting net output-based standards. 

21 Great idea. Using facilities as a result of that 

22 approach would have an incentive to minimize 
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1 their parasitic energy demands coming from 

2 pollution control equipment and, therefore, 

3 increase their overall efficiency, and it seems 

4 like a wise route to go.

5 Secondly, you asked about the wisdom of 

6 having a 5 percent credit for cogeneration units 

7 that avoid transmission and distribution losses. 

8 I commend you for recognizing what is a vastly 

9 overlooked problem, and that is line losses in 

10 this country. We waste 236 million megawatt 

11 hours of electricity a year through line losses. 

12 That's more than the entire consumption of 

13 California, and it costs this nation $23 billion 

14 annually.

15 I would argue, however, that EPA's 5 

16 percent credit is far too low. Average line 

17 losses in this country are 7 percent. They reach

18 20 percent during peak periods, and there's new 

19 research out of MIT and Carnegie Mellon that 

20 suggest the benefits of well-placed distributed 

21 generation can be as high as 20 to 40 percent. I 

22 don't know what the right number is, but it ain't 
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1 five.

2 So, in conclusion, commendations to you 

3 for recognizing the benefits of efficiency and 

4 cogeneration output-based standards. And thanks 

5 for your consideration of my comments.

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

7 Next up we have Max Muller and is there 

8 anyone else in the audience who would like to 

9 testify before lunch? We would be happy to take 

10 -- fit you in now.

11 [Pause.]

12 MS. NOONAN: Yes? Please come to the 

13 table.

14 Mr. Muller? 

15 MR. MULLER: Good afternoon. I want to 

16 thank you for the opportunity to testify today, 

17 and I want to thank EPA for its hard work in 

18 developing the proposed rule.

19 My name is Max Muller. I'm the program 

20 director at Environment Illinois. We're a 

21 statewide environmental activist organization. 

22 And we have about 12,000 members in the State of 
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1 Illinois. And on their behalf I want to say that 

2 we strongly support the proposed new pollution 

3 standard for new coal-fired power plants. It's 

4 going to help protect public health and the 

5 environment in Illinois.

6 There are numerous studies that show the 

7 impact that global warming, which is fueled by 

8 carbon pollution, can have on people's lives, the 

9 economy, public safety, health, and welfare. I 

10 want to focus on three studies that show the 

11 impacts that global warming could have 

12 specifically on the State of Illinois and the 

13 people living here.

14 We released a report about a month ago on 

15 the standing next to Lake Michigan -- I'm sorry, 

16 standing on Lake Shore Drive with Senator Dick 

17 Durbin. The report documented that increased 

18 frequency of weather-related federally-declared 

19 disasters in the United States. It looked at 

20 federally-declared disasters on a county-by21 county basis and tallied the number of weather22 related disasters in Illinois. We found that 24 
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1 out of 25 people in the State of Illinois live in 

2 a county that's had a weather-related disaster 

3 since 2006. And it's almost everybody.

4 In 2011 alone we had a weather-related 

5 disaster. That means -- or we had two weather6 related disasters that made the cover of 

7 newspapers nationwide. The first was a blizzard, 

8 the Groundhog's Day Blizzard, that shut down Lake 

9 Shore Drive, left people -- hundreds of motorists 

10 stranded in their cars. It cost billions of 

11 dollars, and it killed 32 people in the region.

12 That same year, also in 2011, we had 

13 flooding on the Mississippi River that was so 

14 severe that it shut down an entire -- I’m sorry, 

15 it forced the evacuation of an entire Illinois 

16 city called Cairo. Regionally, the flooding cost 

17 $9 billion in economic damage, and seven people 

18 lost their lives from it. So that's just one 

19 year and two very high profile extreme weather 

20 events that have affected Illinois.

21 The second effect that global warming 

22 could have on Illinois or that we are certain 
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1 global warming will have on Illinois is the on 

2 our corn industry. Illinois is the second 

3 biggest corn producing state in the country. And 

4 corn likes it cool. There really is no 

5 substitute for farmers for Illinois' stable 

6 climate and our good soil. And global warming is 

7 projected to effect both. 

8 Our study found that due to increased 

9 carbon dioxide and increased heat, the Illinois 

10 corn industry -- those two effects will cost 

11 Illinois farmers in the corn industry $256 

12 million a year by the year 2025. That's just one 

13 crop and two effect from global warming we 

14 considered. There are many more impacts on 

15 farmers from global warming that we expect.

16 And then the last effect from global 

17 warming that I wanted to talk about is our 

18 health. Specifically, I wanted to talk about 

19 ozone pollution. Scientists know that heat is 

20 one of the main triggers or one of the key 

21 ingredients in the production of ground-level 

22 ozone. It's a lung-irritating pollutant, and it 
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1 is caused by coal-fired power plants.

2 A recent study by the Union of Concerned 

3 Scientists predicted that ground-level ozone will 

4 rise due to the projected increased temperatures 

5 associated with global warming. They found that 

6 we can expect to have 144,000 more asthma attacks 

7 and other occurrences of acute respiratory 

8 problems in Illinois each year due to the 

9 anticipated increase in heat due to global 

10 warming.

11 That's really bad news for people 

12 concerned about public health in Illinois, but 

13 for people who have asthma -- that's 250,000 

14 children in Illinois and 750,000 adults -- it's 

15 particularly bad news because they can expect to 

16 be impacted more frequently.

17 We have known forever -- well, not 

18 forever, but for a very long time that power 

19 plants are the largest single source of global 

20 warming pollution. And it appalls me that for 

21 year, and years, and years, and decades coal22 fired power plants have been able to emit a 
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1 dangerous pollutant without limit and without 

2 penalty.

3 We believe that the limits for carbon 

4 pollution for new coal-fired power plants 

5 contained in the rule are very important. We 

6 applaud the rule, and we recognize that we need 

7 to go much further than this rule will in the 

8 future to further reduce global warming pollution 

9 if we're going to achieve the levels of global 

10 warming reduction -- the levels of pollution 

11 reductions that scientists say are necessary to 

12 prevent the worst impacts of global warming.

13 And that is all. Thank you very much.

14 MS. KAPTAIN: Hi. My name is Sandra 

15 Kaptain, and I’m very glad to be able to speak 

16 today to you. I am treasurer --

17 MS. NOONAN: I'm sorry. Can you spell 

18 your name?

19 MS. KAPTAIN: K-A-P-T-A-I-N, Kaptain with 

20 a K. I am treasurer of the Elgin Climate Change 

21 Organization, a member of the Sierra Club, and as 

22 a -- I was previously for 14 years a chemist and 
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1 pre-treatment coordinator at the Sanitary 

2 District of Elgin, which is now called the Fox 

3 River Water Reclamation District or FRWRD. While 

4 at the SDE or Sanitary District of Elgin, we 

5 cleaned Elgin's wastewater. This includes 

6 solids, organic wastes, and priority pollutants, 

7 which includes heavy metals, mercury, cadmium, 

8 copper, zinc, and over a hundred other toxic 

9 and/or carcinogenic pollutants before discharged 

10 to the Fox River. As many of you probably know, 

11 we currently drink Fox River water after further 

12 treatment by the City of Elgin Water Treatment 

13 Plant.

14 At the Sanitary District alone I was very 

15 pleased we removed -- and this is true across the 

16 country -- 95 to 99 percent of these materials 

17 before they are discharged into the river. In 

18 short, with regulation and enforcement, we 

19 cleaned the wastewater because of the U.S. EPA 

20 and IEPA regulations and enforcement. And not 

21 only did we -- we enforced with the industries 

22 and the IEPA enforced it to us. It works. It 
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1 works. It is cost effective.

2 We must do the same thing for carbon 

3 pollution. Air is treatable at the source also. 

4 You can't clean wastewater after the fact, and 

5 the same goes for the air. And it is cost 

6 effective, and it is doable. And I applaud the 

7 EPA for their actions taking -- starting to take 

8 actions now on coal-fired power plants.

9 As with wastewater, industries want 

10 clear, fair regulations across the board. When 

11 dealing with the industries in Elgin, they want 

12 to know what the rules are and they want it 

13 applied fair and across the board.

14 Good will, good intentions are everyone 

15 will do the right thing is nonsense for industry. 

16 They have to compete. And if they're in 

17 competition, they have to know what the rules are 

18 so they can compete with each other fairly.

19 I support carbon amelioration. We can do 

20 this now. We have done this before with water. 

21 We can do it with the air. It has to be done now 

22 as everybody before me has mentioned. And we can 
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1 lead -- we can have the clean -- we have the 

2 cleanest water in the world I am told. We can 

3 also lead the way with clean air. And I very 

4 much support the EPA and their efforts.

5 Thank you.

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

7 And, Mr. Muller, could you just spell 

8 your name into the mike? I didn't get that 

9 earlier.

10 MR. MULLER: It's Max Muller, M-A-X, M-U11 L-L-E-R.

12 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

13 Is there anyone else who would like to 

14 speak before the lunch break?

15 [No response.]

16 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Great. We are in 

17 recess. We will return at 1:00 o'clock.

18 [Break from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.]

19 MS. NOONAN: Just before we start I just 

20 want to remind everyone if you have cell phones 

21 or other electronic devices to please turn them 

22 off. That's out of respect for the other folks 
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1 in the room.

2 And I think we'll just get started.

3 Good afternoon. My name is Jenny Noonan, 

4 and I am the Director of the Policy Analysis and 

5 Communications staff in EPA's Office of Air 

6 Quality, Planning, and Standards, and I will be 

7 chairing today's hearing.

8 Joining me on the panel are Christian 

9 Fellner, who is also with EPA's Office of Air 

10 Quality, Planning, and Standards in the Sector of 

11 Policies and Programs Division. And we're also 

12 joined by Douglas Aburano, who's from the Region 

13 5 office here in Chicago.

14 And we are here today to listen to your 

15 comments on EPA's Proposed Carbon Pollution 

16 Standards for New Power Plants. EPA published 

17 the proposed standard in the Federal Register on 

18 April 13th, 2012. This common sense step under 

19 the Clean Air Act would, for the first time, set 

20 national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 

21 that power plants built in the future can emit.

22 For future power plants EPA is proposing 
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1 to set an output-based standard of 1,000 pounds 

2 of carbon dioxide, CO2, per megawatt hour. The 

3 Agency's proposal does not apply to existing 

4 units or to planned units that already have 

5 received permits and break ground within the next 

6 12 months.

7 EPA's proposed standard reflects the 

8 ongoing trend in the power sector to build 

9 cleaner plants that take advantage of American10 made technologies. The proposal is flexible and 

11 would help minimize carbon pollution through the 

12 deployment of the same types of modern 

13 technologies that power companies are already 

14 using to build the next generation of power 

15 plants. EPA's proposal would ensure that this 

16 progress toward a cleaner, safer, and more modern 

17 power sector continues.

18 Today we will be accepting oral comments 

19 on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 

20 prepare a written transcript of this hearing. 

21 The transcript will become a part of the official 

22 record for this rule. We are also accepting 
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1 written comments on the proposed rule until June 

2 25th, 2012.

3 At the registration area outside, there 

4 are handouts with detailed information for 

5 submitting written comments by mail, fax, or 

6 electronically. EPA will consider your comments 

7 as we move forward to complete a final rule.

8 Now let me describe the procedure for 

9 today's hearing. I will call the speakers to the 

10 table in pairs. When it is your turn to speak, 

11 please state your name and your affiliation 

12 before you begin your testimony. And it will 

13 help our court reporter if you spell your name.

14 In order to be fair to everyone, we will 

15 limit your testimony to five minutes each; and we 

16 ask you remain at the table until both speakers 

17 in the pair have finished. After finishing your 

18 testimony, members of the panel may ask 

19 clarifying questions.

20 If, in addition to the transcript of your 

21 testimony, you would also like us to put the full 

22 text of your written comments into the docket, 
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1 please be sure to give a copy of any written 

2 comments to our staff at the registration table, 

3 or we can take them here.

4 We have a time-keeping system consisting 

5 of green, yellow, and red lights to help you 

6 track of your five minutes to speak. When you 

7 begin speaking the green light will come on. The 

8 yellow light will signal that you have one minute 

9 left. When the red light comes on, five minutes 

10 have past and I will ask you to please complete 

11 your testimony.

12 Today's hearing is scheduled from 8:30 

13 a.m. and continue until 8:00 p.m. or later, if 

14 necessary, depending on the number of speakers. 

15 The hearing will recess -- or we just -- are 

16 finishing our recess for lunch, and we'll recess 

17 again for the dinner break from 4:30 to 5:30. 

18 And we will reconvene promptly at 5:30.

19 If you would like to testify but have not 

20 yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 

21 registration table in the hallway outside of this 

22 room. And for those who have already registered 
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1 to speak, we have tried to accommodate your 

2 requests for a specific time slot. We ask for 

3 your patience as we proceed through the list of 

4 speakers. We may need to make some adjustments 

5 as the day progresses.

6 If you have any questions that arise 

7 throughout the day, please see a staff member at 

8 the registration table for assistance.

9 Again, thank you all for participating 

10 today. Let's get started.

11 The first two speakers of the afternoon 

12 are Reverend Dr. Jerome Stone, and Amy Allen. 

13 Please come to the table.

14 Would you like to start?

15 REV. DR STONE: Is everyone picking me 

16 up okay? All right.

17 I am Jerome Stone, a former United Church 

18 of Christ minister, Professor Emeritus of 

19 Philosophy, and former Chair of the Department of 

20 Philosophy at William Rainey Harper College in 

21 Palatine where I taught environmental ethics. In 

22 fact, I wrote the course description for 
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1 environmental ethics for use in the community 

2 colleges in Illinois.

3 I have three points to make. First, 

4 cost-benefit analysis is not a final analysis. I 

5 hold in my hand a calculator and a picture of my 

6 grandchildren. They could be your children or 

7 grandchildren. A calculator is useful in cost8 benefit analysis, but the worth of children and 

9 their health cannot be determined by a 

10 calculator. We cannot ignore a cost-benefit 

11 analysis, but if life is sacred, we need more 

12 than a calculator.

13 The second point is that the argument 

14 about job destruction which you may hear is 

15 false. I used to be a minister in Danville in 

16 east central Illinois. The economy of that area 

17 is very close to my heart. But even more 

18 important we need healthy workers, healthy 

19 children to grow into healthy workers, and 

20 healthy lives for our retired workers.

21 If there is some displacement of workers 

22 from these regulations, there will also be new 
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1 jobs from the pollution-curbing technologies. 

2 There will be time to adjust jobs and job 

3 training. We did it as the tobacco industry 

4 slowed down. We can do it in coal. The bottom 

5 line is if we don't have our health, jobs won't 

6 matter.

7 My third point is this: I have studied 

8 and taught religions of the world, and I can tell 

9 you that if there is anything that all the 

10 religions agree on is that we must care for the 

11 earth and work for the alleviation of suffering 

12 now and for future generations. If life is 

13 sacred, we need more than a calculator. 

14 The EPA is to be applauded for its work. 

15 Thank you.

16 MS. NOONAN: Ms. Allen? And spell -- can 

17 you spell your name, too?

18 MS. ALLEN: Hi, my name is Amy Allen. A19 M-Y, A-L-L-E-N. I'm a student at the University 

20 of Illinois and a member of Students for 

21 Environmental Concerns, and I represent a large 

22 group of students there that were inspired and 
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1 compelled by the EPA's effort in creating these 

2 regulations.

3 As many other have said, addressing the 

4 climate change is a critically important 

5 challenge for the safety and health of future 

6 generations. And the EPA is to be commended for 

7 this effort at regulating carbon emissions.

8 However, there are several ways in which 

9 these restrictions could go farther and have a 

10 more immediate impact on climate change such as 

11 addressing the emissions of existing plants or 

12 setting stricter controls on the amount of CO2

13 emissions that would be permitted.

14 Nevertheless, the coal, natural gas, and 

15 other fossil fuel industries have been allowed 

16 for too long to dump their externalities and the 

17 pollution and health impacts of their industries 

18 onto the rest of society without regulation or 

19 having to pay for them. Unless we do ask them to 

20 do that, they're not going to change; so it's 

21 important that we force them to pay for things 

22 like that an enact these regulations. 
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1 And I applaud the EPA for doing so, but I 

2 also encourage you to enact the strongest 

3 regulations that you can that will have the most 

4 immediate impact.

5 Thank you.

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

7 Next, Terry Wiggins and Peter Slaby.

8 [Pause.]

9 MS. NOONAN: Is Terry Wiggins here?

10 [No response.]

11 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Well, we'll have --

12 okay. Derrell Edward Slaughter.

13 MR. SLABY: My name is Peter I. Slaby, I 

14 for Ivan, middle name. Slaby, S-L-A-B like in 

15 Boston, Y. I live in -- I'm from Wisconsin, 

16 Milwaukee, a lift-time Wisconsin resident. I 

17 have logged in 75 years so far and heard we have 

18 30 years to go before I'm out of here. So time 

19 is of the essence --

20 [Laughter.]

21 MR. SLABY: -- to get this rule squared 

22 away. And I'm here to help back up the EPA guys 
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1 and gals. When you need somebody to watch your 

2 back, Slaby will be there as much as I can do. 

3 We'll get to that.

4 I support the proposed rule here for new 

5 plants, although details I would not be that much 

6 aware of, but there's so much material that I 

7 downloaded online from EPA, and from, you know, 

8 various environmental groups. I got a ton of 

9 stuff now I'm researching. It stays with me 

10 forever that I think it's important, though, that 

11 I will trust others who have more details 

12 regarding that. And it's about observations.

13 During World War II I'm just a little kid 

14 becoming aware of the world. So in 19 -- World 

15 War II and all through the 1940's in the 

16 Milwaukee area, just north of the Menomonee 

17 Valley, a lot -- we put the laundry out in the 

18 back yard to dry. It was always tattletale gray. 

19 We never had clean white sheets because of the 

20 particulates coming in from the steam engines and 

21 the manufacturing and the -- all the coal 

22 furnaces in Milwaukee at that time.
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1 Up to the 19070's I started hiking with 

2 the Wisconsin Go Hiking Club. All through the 

3 1970's we could guaranty a year or two years and 

4 even five years ahead of time on a specific date 

5 we could plan that far ahead to hike the Cedar 

6 Bog about 35 miles north of Milwaukee because we 

7 were guaranteed a hard surface. 

8 Around 1980 or so the formerly hard 

9 surface of ice and snow started to get a little 

10 squicky. In the -- all through the latter 1980's 

11 and, well, to date there is no such thing as 

12 planning ahead for a guaranteed hard ice to 

13 penetrate a bog. That's only a memory. I wonder 

14 what happened.

15 The 1990's and 2000's in the rental 

16 business and working with children or tenants, 

17 children of tenants, and also the Milwaukee 

18 Public Schools, a number of people were using my 

19 building to help children with exceptional needs, 

20 rather suffering from -- not just something from 

21 the coal but it would be mercury, asbestos, lead, 

22 that kind of business, and maybe other issues.
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1 But I found it -- in my world I don't 

2 remember as a kid having the kind of problems 

3 that our children are now -- seem to be suffering 

4 over this entire world of ours in the United 

5 States, in Milwaukee, especially Central City or 

6 rural areas that was my turf. And I worry about 

7 the children. I have no children of my own, but, 

8 however, I do make my observations. What is 

9 happening with this -- like a pandemic went on of 

10 ailments of children? Is there something going 

11 on that we need to take notice of?

12 Okay. I think one thing -- just to wrap 

13 up here, I think the -- when I look at the --

14 scan some of the materials that EPA that I 

15 downloaded, I think we're talking -- we're too 

16 human centric. And when I see references to that 

17 -- our children, and the elderly, and their 

18 children's children, and children's children of 

19 the humans, how about the children and 

20 grandchildren, and great, great grandchildren of 

21 all of the life forms that we human beings have 

22 to depend on? That's called the biological chain 
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1 of life. And there are references throughout 

2 from time to time, but I think when we talk about 

3 the human factors, we better talk about all other 

4 life forms as well, flora and fauna.

5 Oh, God, I -- I also -- therefore, I 

6 offer some tools to add to EPA's toolbox when the 

7 -- and when those deniers come on or those who 

8 oppose these massive changes that these -- quote 

9 -- radical changes for the record as I'm putting 

10 that in quotes. I think in order for the EPA 

11 staffers and anybody else that has to combat 

12 those who do not like these changes consider 

13 something called willful blindness.

14 Willful blindness is a concept that 

15 indicates that you -- it's a humanality 

16 throughout history. Humans will deny reality or 

17 consciously or unconsciously will -- if it's 

18 inconvenient, or not nice, or maybe -- for 

19 whatever reason we'll deny the facts, and it's 

20 called --

21 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Slaby.

22 MR. SLABY: -- willful blindness. Now, 
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1 I'm just reading the book now but you can go on 

2 any search engine and just type in willful 

3 blindness, and bam, there's a ton of everything. 

4 It's a legal concept. Some people have been 

5 convicted legally of violating, consciously 

6 practicing this willful blindness and try to get 

7 away with evading facts. Willful blindness.

8 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

9 MR. SLABY: Nothing new about it.

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much. And we 

11 would accept any -- if you have longer comments 

12 that you would like to submit for the record, we 

13 would certainly --

14 MR. SLABY: And lastly, I'm suggesting 

15 that --

16 MS. NOONAN: Really, your time is up.

17 MR. SLABY: Oh, I'm sorry. It's a red 

18 light. I will put this in. I want to put this 

19 on paper.

20 MS. NOONAN: Please do.

21 MR. SLABY: I'll give it in the next two 

22 weeks, and it will be a little more -- you know, 
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1 lay it out a little more easier to read.

2 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you so much.

3 MR. SLABY: But Slaby will be watching 

4 you and helping your back and watching out for 

5 you.

6 MS. NOONAN: I appreciate that. Thank 

7 you.

8 [Applause.]

9 MR. SLAUGHTER: Good afternoon, lady and 

10 gentlemen. My name is Derrell Slaughter. That's 

11 D-E-R-R-E-L-L, Slaughter, S-L-A-U-G-H-T-E-R. And 

12 I proudly serve as the Second Vice-President for 

13 the Lansing, Michigan NAACP Branch. I'm the 

14 Second Vice-President of the Lansing NAACP 

15 Branch. 

16 And I stand before you today as a person 

17 gravely concerned about the quality of life for 

18 the American citizens of today and tomorrow. I 

19 fear that future generations, many of which have 

20 not been born yet, will grow up in a world where 

21 basic resources like clean water and air will be 

22 polluted and scarce. Instead, these natural 
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1 resources will reserved for those individuals 

2 that have the means to obtain them, thus granting 

3 them a higher quality of life than the average 

4 person.

5 And equity issues that will be caused by 

6 the lack of available clean resources will be 

7 owned by our unborn children and grandchildren. 

8 Because of this I feel that people of this era 

9 must be obliged -- must oblige themselves to 

10 begin to address the elements in our society 

11 today that limit the available natural resources 

12 of tomorrow.

13 Coal-fired power plants happen to the top 

14 culprit and frame this bleak future. Coal-fired 

15 power plants emit massive amounts of human16 harming harming chemicals in the air every day. 

17 According to the American Lung Association's 

18 report on coal-fired plants, toxic air, coal19 fired plants release 386,000 tons of 84 separate 

20 adverse air pollutants, all which spew from 400 

21 plants across the country.

22 Some of the chemicals that are a part of 
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1 those emissions include arsenic, mercury, radium, 

2 and hydrochloride. These chemicals can cause 

3 everything from skin irritation to lung and bone 

4 cancer in humans. The most unfortunate aspect of 

5 coal-fired plants is who gets afflicted by the 

6 chemicals that are being spewed out. These 

7 effects are more -- even more severe in children 

8 who are the future of our country.

9 According to the National Black Child 

10 Development Institute's Fall 2011 Newsletter, 

11 Child Health Talk, 68 percent of all African12 Americans live within 30 miles of a coal-fired 

13 plant. When you get down to a 3-mile radius, 

14 according to the NAACP's 2011 Report, Coal 

15 Blooded, you'll find that there are 8.1 million 

16 people that happen to live near a coal-fired 

17 plant. Of those individuals 36.4 percent or 2.94 

18 million happen to be people of color.

19 Coupled with the close proximity to coal20 fired plants comes with startling statistics. 

21 Particulate soot from coal-powered power plants 

22 cost a family of four an average of $500 per year 
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1 in expenses and damage associated with increased 

2 hospital admissions, premature deaths, and 

3 treatments for asthma, respiratory ailments, and 

4 cardiovascular problems among others.

5 A recent study commissioned by the 

6 Michigan Environmental Council also estimated 

7 national impacts of Michigan's old coal power 

8 plants find they are responsible for $5.4 billion 

9 in health care costs, mostly in the Great Lakes 

10 region where much of their pollution follow 

11 patents.

12 Where people of color have -- while 

13 people of color have less to worry about the 

14 harmful chemicals coming from these coal-fired 

15 plants, they have much more to worry about with 

16 the role of coal-fired plants claim accelerating 

17 climate change through carbon emissions. People 

18 of color are very much susceptible to the 

19 negative effects of climate change.

20 One of the most obvious effects from 

21 climate change is increased temperature. The 

22 commission to engage African-Americans on climate 
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1 change has stated that African-Americans are 

2 twice as likely to live in cities deemed as heat 

3 islands compared to whites. As a result, 

4 African-Americans suffer from heat-related deaths 

5 at a rate of 150 to 200 percent more than their 

6 white counterparts according to the Environmental 

7 Justice and Climate Change Initiative 2008 

8 report, The Climate of Change.

9 We also happen to be more susceptible to 

10 extreme weather events that climate change 

11 caused. According to the National Wildlife 

12 Association's 2009 report, More Extreme Weather, 

13 African-Americans comprise 20 percent of the 

14 population in the eight states deemed as 

15 hurricane zones. They also note that 56 percent 

16 of all African-Americans live in the south or in 

17 urban areas.

18 In order to stop some of the effects that 

19 climate change is having on our planet and on 

20 people of color we need to begin to hold coal21 fired power plants to more prudent carbon 

22 emission standards. I believe that EPA's carbon 
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1 standard rule for new power plants is a step in 

2 the right direction. It helps protect future and 

3 current generations from the harmful effects of 

4 carbon emissions and climate change. The rule is 

5 prudent, fair, and follows right in line with 

6 where the country is headed in terms of energy 

7 use estimates and trends.

8 As clean energy technology become the 

9 standard force of our country's energy capacity, 

10 we must oblige those who want to continue to use 

11 carbon-laden energy source with the task of 

12 significantly reducing their emissions.

13 I truly hope the EPA passes more rules to 

14 ensure a high quality life of all people 

15 regardless of resource availability. 

16 Thank you.

17 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

18 [Applause.]

19 MS. NOONAN: And while I appreciate your 

20 enthusiasm, as do, I’m sure, the speakers, just 

21 for the sake of time we're going to ask folks to 

22 restrain your enthusiasm and maybe share it with 
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1 the speakers later. Thank you.

2 Dorthea Enrique Thomas, please, and 

3 Theresa Dear. And we'll do for the -- on deck, 

4 as they say in baseball, Jacqueline Patterson 

5 will be next along with Katherine Egland.

6 Go ahead.

7 MS. DEAR: I want to thank you for the 

8 opportunity to speak to you today. I appreciate 

9 this agenda --

10 MS. NOONAN: I'm sorry. Can you say your 

11 name and spell it?

12 MS. DEAR: Reverend Theresa Dear, D-E-A13 R.

14 I appreciate this gathering, this agenda 

15 as one of a testimony, but the way that I see our 

16 time together here is that it's really a post17 mortem to assess the environmental ills and 

18 contaminants that ultimately contribute to the 

19 death of many in this country. We are here to 

20 really examine what we've done wrong to kill so 

21 many in this country. You may not see it that 

22 way, but I do.
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1 In the CDC's fourth report of national 

2 exposure it reveals data of the United States 

3 populations' exposure to 212 chemicals. Seventy4 five of these 212 chemicals were identified in 

5 the first report. And the first report was 

6 delivered in 2001. The fourth report, friends, 

7 reveals our exposure to 212 chemicals. The first 

8 report, again, revealed our exposure in 2001 to 

9 only 27 chemicals. Again, in 2001 there were 27 

10 chemicals. Here in 2012 the CDC reports that 

11 there are 212 chemicals that we are exposed to 

12 now.

13 If you look at the African-American 

14 community in particular, where our food staple --

15 in the African-American urban community, in 

16 particular, where there are food deserts and the 

17 primary food staple is processed and manufactured 

18 food, that number of 212 is almost doubled, if 

19 not tripled. And so I applaud the landmark and 

20 progressive steps that this administration and 

21 this leadership has taken to address pollutants 

22 from plants. I applaud the action that has been 
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1 taken in terms of developing the interagency 

2 environmental justice initiatives, but, friends, 

3 significantly more must be done because, as I 

4 said earlier, we have moved from 27 chemicals to 

5 212. 

6 The Hospice Association talks about two 

7 stages of death. There's the pre-stage of death, 

8 and then there is the active stage of death. And 

9 what I would submit to you is that we are in an 

10 active stage of dying right now because these 

11 pollutant and these contaminants that we inhale, 

12 ingest, and eat are gradually, yet rapidly, 

13 killing us.

14 And so I dare not leave this table 

15 without what I am most passionate about, and that 

16 is accountability because I have read all the 

17 documents from Secretary Katherine [sic] 

18 Sebelius, the Executive Order from President

19 Clinton, et cetera. I have seen nothing 

20 published, at least on websites, where there are 

21 metrics of accountability. And I would ask you 

22 to consider these four items of accountability.
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1 First, that we broaden and publicize 

2 compliance standards; secondly, that we would 

3 hold companies accountable for non-compliance, 

4 that we would mandate compliance dates, not 

5 target dates but actual and specific publicized 

6 dates.

7 And finally, we would assign fines and 

8 penalties to companies for non-compliance 

9 because, leaders of the EPA, if we do not do this 

10 in this post-mortem session, we are going to find 

11 ourselves, in a few years, where this number from 

12 212 is now increased to over a thousand. I would 

13 submit to you that if we don't take actions of 

14 accountability, we are going to be the authors of 

15 more death certificates than birth certificates. 

16 We are going to be designing more and delivering 

17 more eulogies than commencement speeches. And we 

18 are going to be giving more time to autopsies 

19 rather than births.

20 Thank you.

21 MS. THOMAS: Good afternoon. My name is 

22 Dorthea Thomas. That's D-O-R-T-H-E-A, T-H-O-M-A-
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1 S. 

2 And today I am here on behalf of the 

3 NAACP Michigan State Conference as an 

4 Environmental Justice Co-Lead and an advocate of 

5 conservation and sustainability management.

6 I'm from the heart of the city that is 

7 known for its bad air quality, Detroit, Michigan; 

8 but my grandparents are from here, Chicago, 

9 Illinois. I am the granddaughter of Dorothy 

10 Irvin, an evangelist and a Woman of Ministry, 

11 that was loved and cherished in her community yet 

12 passed away from lung cancer because of the 

13 toxins that existed in the air of her community.

14 If the efforts of the EPA are enforced, 

15 this could significantly reduce mercury, soot, 

16 smog, and pollution announcing historic, new 

17 emissions standards that combined save 46,000 

18 lives a year.

19 I watched her suffer until death, wishing 

20 there was a way to escape the environment 

21 exposure to prolong her life a little while 

22 longer. The only advice her doctor gave her was 
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1 to move to another cleaner and safer environment. 

2 Yet, because of our current situation, she was 

3 financially incapable of leaving everything she 

4 had ever worked for in her life.

5 My grandfather had always loved to fish 

6 and enjoy the weather on bright sunny days, but 

7 now he's even too afraid to go out for too long 

8 because of the quality of our air. After years 

9 of fishing in the Belle Isle River and 

10 surrounding Great Lakes, after coming across the 

11 fish infested with tumors and disease, not only 

12 was the love of his life was taken away from him 

13 but his hobby and quality of life has now 

14 shattered, too.

15 Coal-fired plants spew hundreds of 

16 thousands of pounds of toxic mercury into our air 

17 every year which falls to the earth in the form 

18 of rain and contaminates rivers, lakes, and 

19 streams. And it doesn't take much mercury to 

20 have a big impact on our health.

21 Scientists found that a single gram of 

22 mercury can contaminate an entire 20-acre lake. 
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1 My grandparents did all they could to raise me in 

2 the most loving, safe, upright way. One day I 

3 wish to start my own family, but I want to feel 

4 comfortable knowing that my children and family 

5 is born into an all-around healthy society.

6 Passage of the carbon pollution standards 

7 will ensure that communities worldwide would not 

8 face new threats from plants that will degrade 

9 their health today and the future to come.

10 At least 1 in 12 and then as many as 1 in 

11 6 of American women of child-bearing age have 

12 enough mercury in their bodies to put a baby at 

13 risk for mercury poisoning. Mercury and other 

14 dangerous air pollutants are connected to extreme 

15 health problems such as brain damage, learning 

16 disabilities, birth defects, heart disease, 

17 cancer, and even premature death.

18 Mercury impairs 3,781 bodies of water 

19 across the country. More than 6 million acres of 

20 lakes, reservoirs, and ponds in the United states 

21 are contaminated by mercury pollution.

22 With the help of the EPA and political 
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1 backing we can save 46,000 lives a year. As we 

2 in our efforts to continue to constantly work 

3 closely with our allies in the public health 

4 community, lobbying, key senators, and thousands 

5 of activists, we can stand up our future, 

6 present, and generations to come.

7 This new carbon rule prevents 123 billion 

8 pounds of carbon pollution annually. EPA's 

9 proposed rule would help mitigate climate change 

10 and achieve an immediate carbon pollution 

11 reductions from power plants.

12 My health has declined over the years as 

13 well. I've been diagnosed with a rare eye 

14 disease called scleritis that my doctor has 

15 directly correlated with environmental exposure.

16 Without health insurance, the government even 

17 turned me down from assistance for -- qualifying 

18 for assistance because they said I was not blind 

19 yet.

20 We must protect our families and create a 

21 sustainable society. Not only do I support the 

22 EPA proposal on enforcing new power plants to 
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1 abide by these rules, but I hope that existing 

2 plants shall also be in the near future as well.

3 Our people are suffering and dying slowly 

4 in the African-American community without any 

5 help or assistance. Something must be done.

6 Finalizing a new standard to reduce 

7 carbon pollution is one of those things. This 

8 will save lives, communities, and the quality of 

9 life for all people to come. We must stand by 

10 investing the notion that in creating healthy 

11 people, it will ultimately create a healthy 

12 economy in general.

13 Thank you.

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

15 Jacqueline Patterson and Katherine 

16 Egland.

17 MS. PATTERSON: Yes, hi. My name is 

18 Jackie Patterson. I was born and raised in 

19 Chicago, Illinois. I now live in Silver Spring, 

20 Maryland.

21 Last year in February my father began to 

22 complain of a cough which increased in severity 
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1 over the course of the year, progressing into him 

2 being confined to the home and dependent on an 

3 oxygen machine. He was still so severely winded 

4 from just walking from the living to the kitchen 

5 to get a glass of water even while on the oxygen 

6 machine. My dad's doctors diagnosed him with 

7 pulmonary fibrosis and said that it was likely 

8 due to environmental exposure given that my 

9 father has never smoked a day in his life. We 

10 laid my father to rest on September 4th of last 

11 year.

12 How many more people must be buried 

13 before we're granted equal protection under the 

14 law? As stated before 68 percent of African15 Americans live within 30 miles of a coal-fired 

16 power plant. An African-American family making 

17 $50,000 per year is more likely to live near a 

18 toxic facility than a white American family 

19 making $15,000 per year.

20 We've seen the results of this in the 

21 rates of respiratory illnesses in African22 Americans. Even though we have lower rates of 
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1 smoking, African-Americans are more likely to die 

2 of lung disease.

3 A recent study found that in the Bronx an 

4 African-American child is five times more likely 

5 to die of asthma than a white American child. 

6 Nationwide African-American children are twice as 

7 likely to die of asthma and three times more 

8 likely to be admitted to the hospital for asthma 

9 attacks. 

10 From what I understand carbon pollution 

11 doesn't directly cause these health conditions, 

12 but rather, it creates what some scientists call 

13 domes that trap, concentrate, and intensify they 

14 myriad of other toxins we breath every day, some 

15 of us more than others.

16 With the mercury, arsenic, lead, dioxins, 

17 and other pollutants that come from power plants 

18 in communities nationwide, these domes are 

19 effectively creating lethal gas chambers for 

20 communities. At the same time, we understand 

21 that carbon dioxide is the number one driver of 

22 climate change, and these power plants are the 
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1 leading emitters of carbon dioxide.

2 Again, climate change affects us all, but 

3 its affects are felt hardest by communities and 

4 people who are politically, economically, 

5 physically, and socially vulnerable.

6 When I did hurricane relief after 

7 Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, the throngs of folks 

8 who walked through the doors of the disaster 

9 recovery center every day were largely African10 Americans. I also met scores of people with 

11 hearing impairments where my pathetic one year of 

12 sign language was their saving grace. But my 

13 presence and meager skills were pure 

14 happenstance. So what would have happened if I 

15 hadn't been there?

16 I also met people with HIV and AIDS who 

17 went weeks without access to their life18 preserving antiretroviral drugs. Overall I met 

19 hundreds of people who had to start their entire 

20 lives over with barely two pennies to rub 

21 together to do so. And scientists say that 

22 Katrina was only the tip of the iceberg.
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1 Regarding other effects of climate 

2 change, growing up here in the south side of 

3 Chicago, I lived in a community that would be 

4 considered to be a food desert like so many other 

5 communities of color. This means we would have 

6 more immediate access to a Dorito or a Funyun 

7 than a leafy vegetable or a strawberry. We 

8 already see how this plays out for communities 

9 who are disproportionally suffering from 

10 heightened rates of obesity as well as hunger and 

11 all of the health conditions that result from 

12 poor diet, including diabetes, heart disease, 

13 high blood pressure, et cetera.

14 Access to affordable nutritious foods 

15 will only lessen as climate change impacts 

16 agricultural yields here and abroad. Last year 

17 we saw farmers in Illinois, Iowa, Mississippi, 

18 and beyond lose crops from flood -- due to flood 

19 and drought. Again, scientists say we've only 

20 begun to see these impacts.

21 Finally, I visited coastal communities 

22 from Florida to Louisiana to Alaska, some of whom 
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1 are already experiencing coastal erosion and 

2 several of whom are facing displacement in the 

3 next 20 years due to some sea level rising 

4 resulting from climate change.

5 The cost of inaction on carbon pollution 

6 is the health, livelihood, culture, economic and 

7 social well being of communities nationwide and 

8 worldwide with vulnerable communities being hit 

9 first and worst.

10 We need strong carbon pollution standards 

11 to ensure that newly proposed plants have 

12 controls in place that protect the well being of 

13 us all. We must also make sure that our next 

14 step is also to regulate carbon dioxide from the 

15 hundreds of existing plants that are now 

16 polluting thousands of communities. The history 

17 of decades of pollution from those plants is one 

18 of the leading reasons we are now on the brink of 

19 catastrophic climate change. We must get the 

20 situation under control for all of our sakes.

21 Thank you.

22 MS. NOONAN: And can you spell your name 
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1 into the --

2 MS. PATTERSON: Sure. My name is 

3 Jacqueline Patterson, J-A-C-Q-U-E-L-I-N-E, 

4 Patterson, P-A-T-T-E-R-S-O-N.

5 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you so much.

6 MS. EGLAND: Good afternoon. My name is 

7 Katherine Egland. That's Katherine with a K-A-T8 H-E-R-I-N-E, last name Egland, E-G-L-A-N-D. And 

9 I am a member of the NAACP National Board of 

10 Directors and chair the Environmental and Climate 

11 Justice Committee of the Board.

12 First, let me preface my remarks by 

13 commending this administration for proposing this 

14 much needed new source performance standard 

15 regulation. This is a tremendous leap towards 

16 providing safeguards to assure cleaner air for 

17 promoting a more robust and responsible economy.

18 And one of the most perplexing concerns 

19 that I have heard from those who object to the 

20 regulation is that it is a job killer. Now let 

21 me be clear. You simply cannot justify killing 

22 people to create jobs. We cannot compromise the 
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1 health of a nation for the wealth of the 

2 privileged. Making a living wage is of no 

3 consequence to an unhealthy or a dying worker. 

4 The end does not justify the means.

5 Former President Bill Clinton once said -

6 - and I quote: I have never believed that we had 

7 to choose between either a clean and safe 

8 environment or a growing economy. Protecting the 

9 health and safety of all Americans doesn't have 

10 to come at the expense of our economy's bottom 

11 line. And creating pride in companies and new 

12 jobs doesn't have to come at the expense of the 

13 air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we 

14 eat, or the natural landscape in which we live. 

15 We can and indeed must have both -- unquote.

16 We should never turn a blind eye or a 

17 deaf ear to those who have a deep and abiding 

18 commitment to protecting our environment and 

19 dismiss them as opponents of progress or even 

20 worse hired assassins to kill the job market.

21 I am certainly grateful for this 

22 opportunity and all those who work so diligently 
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1 within this administration to protect my right to 

2 breathe clean air.

3 I am here today in a volunteer capacity 

4 as a grandmother of a child who requires periodic 

5 breathing treatments and as a Gulfport, 

6 Mississippi, homeowner who for the past 33 years 

7 has resided within five miles of a failing coal 

8 plant, Plant Jack Watson. Three of my 

9 grandchildren live only two blocks from me which 

10 places them within that same five-mile radius. 

11 It isn't enough that Plant Watson's 

12 owner, Mississippi Power Company, has this one 

13 failing plant. They're pending final approval by 

14 the Public Service Commission to develop yet 

15 another coal plant in the state. This new Kemper 

16 County site will utilize lignite and eliminate 

17 20,000 acres of prime forestland and small farms. 

18 Any runoff from the project will impact the 

19 Pascagoula River. And to add insult to injury, 

20 it appears that we, the ratepayers, will finance 

21 the building of this plant with a 30 percent rate 

22 hike. But the company claims it's doing us a 
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1 favor as the increased power rates will take 

2 effect gradually over a 10-year period.

3 Apparently they have no appreciation for 

4 the fact that Social Security, retirement, and 

5 other incomes will not increase at a rate of 30 

6 percent over a 10-year period. And that this 

7 increase will impose a considerable hardship on 

8 many of its consumers. This is really an 

9 absolute travesty that the construction of the 

10 new coal plant will be financed on the backs of 

11 struggling customers with absolutely no risk to 

12 the shareholders of this publicly traded company.

13 This kind of blatant disregard is why we need 

14 federal government intervention.

15 Also located within five miles of Plant 

16 Jack Watson is the Gulf of Mexico. Gulf 

17 residents have had not only to contend with the 

18 results of extreme climate changes, respond to 

19 unprecedented devastation of Hurricane Katrina, 

20 but we also have had to cope with the horrendous 

21 BP Oil drilling disaster. And we also have 

22 continued concerns regarding the environmental 
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1 impact of all the pollutants of the Mississippi 

2 River which flows through 10 states before 

3 dumping into the Gulf of Mexico.

4 We need federal government regulations to 

5 protect us, not just for future coal plants but 

6 for all the existing pitfalls which have led us 

7 down this unyielding path of destruction. I 

8 encourage consideration of NFPS as well 

9 protective guidelines for existing coal plants.

10 Thank you.

11 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

12 Up next we have Ted Carrington and Gloria 

13 Gilmer. And then after that we'll have Terry 

14 Wiggins and Yangyang Cheng.

15 [Pause.]

16 MS. NOONAN: Ted Carrington and Gloria 

17 Gilmer?

18 MR. CARRINGTON: Good afternoon. My name 

19 is Theodore Carrington, T-H-E-O-D-O-R-E, C-A-R-R20 I-N-G-T-O-N. I'm a resident of Franklin Park, 

21 New Jersey, located near the middle of the state. 

22 I am Chairperson of the Environmental and Climate 
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1 Justice Program for the New Jersey State 

2 Conference of the NAACP, the nation's oldest and 

3 largest civil rights organization.

4 Let me start by saying that every one of 

5 us has the right to breathe clean, healthy air, 

6 air that is not saturated with carbon dioxide, 

7 clean air that will not make you sick each day 

8 when you take a breath, clean air that does not 

9 impact your health because of accumulated affects 

10 of breathing in carbon dioxide over a lifetime, 

11 in a year, every single day. We have the right 

12 to breathe clean air free of carbon dioxide and 

13 other pollutants.

14 The proposed rule will reduce the harmful 

15 impacts of carbon dioxide, a major contributor to 

16 global warming that makes our cities hotter, 

17 causes increases in asthma attacks and 

18 respiratory complications. Carbon dioxide has a 

19 great impact on a state like New Jersey which is 

20 ranked the fourth smallest state in the union yet 

21 11th in population. New Jersey is ranked 5th in 

22 the nation for new cancer cases each year. New 
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1 Jersey has five power plants that emit tons of 

2 carbon dioxide into the air each year, plus we 

3 are impacted by the power plants located in 

4 Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Ohio. Data from 

5 2005 indicates Pennsylvania has 78 coal-fired 

6 generating units emitting carbon dioxide into the 

7 air, and the easterly wind currents blow carbon 

8 dioxide and other pollutants into New Jersey 

9 every day.

10 Because of the dense population in New 

11 Jersey over 7 million people are exposed to power 

12 plant pollution each year that includes more than 

13 one and half million children of which 244,225 

14 are in poverty conditions and 99,488 suffer from 

15 asthma. This is a devastating combination for 

16 our communities when our children must compete on 

17 a world market and they start off life poor and 

18 sick.

19 Two of New Jersey's power plants are 

20 located in densely populated areas of the state 

21 where large numbers of blacks and Latinos live. 

22 The Hudson Generation Station and the Mercer 
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1 Facility have recently reduced the amount of 

2 harmful emissions they emit into the air each 

3 year. The two facilities did not reduce the 

4 emissions because they were concerned the 

5 emissions were causing harm to the community. 

6 They were not concerned that our children are 

7 growing up with illnesses that would prevent them 

8 from participating in simple playtime activities 

9 or cause them to have difficulty in school.

10 These two facilities were forced to 

11 reduce toxic emissions because of lawsuits and 

12 the threat of lawsuits. And the federal 

13 government had to step in and make the companies 

14 do what they were supposed to do in the first 

15 place. The corporations were supposed to reduce 

16 the emissions because it was the right thing to 

17 do. This is another example of the power plant 

18 industry putting profits over the health of the 

19 most vulnerable.

20 Although the emissions from the power 

21 plants have been reduced, the polluting continues 

22 to assault communities that will be affected for 
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1 many years to come. This is why we need new 

2 source performance standard as initiated by the 

3 EPA. We will be somewhat satisfied to know that 

4 the power plants will not add significant amounts 

5 of carbon dioxide into the air. There would be a 

6 greater sense of satisfaction if we were able to 

7 do a community related health impact analysis and 

8 determine what communities have high levels of 

9 nitrous oxide and sulfur dioxide. These are 

10 precursors to particulate matter, a microscopic 

11 unit that is causing coronary havoc in black and 

12 Latino communities.

13 Finally, last Saturday I attended a 

14 three-mile community walk in central New Jersey 

15 and had the opportunity to communicate with one 

16 of the walkers. I noticed she was distracted 

17 from our conversation. She explained she wasn't 

18 being rude, but she was concentrating on her 

19 child. It seemed the young girl wanted to do 

20 more than walk. She wanted to run and play with 

21 her friends, but her parents knew that any over 

22 exertion could cause her to experience a life-
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1 threatening asthma attack. It was all the mother 

2 could do to keep her child contained when she 

3 could contained -- when she should be in the 

4 active prime of her young life. Despite the 

5 parent's efforts to contain her child, the young 

6 girl still had to leave the walk suffering a mild 

7 asthma attack. We should not have to suffer just 

8 because we breathe. 

9 EPA's proposed carbon pollution standard 

10 for new power plants is a step in the right 

11 direction.

12 MS. GILMER: My name is Gloria Gilmer, 

13 and I'm the authority that most of these people 

14 are. I'm here to learn as much as I can about 

15 the problems that we are discussing, but it is 

16 because I am a mathematician and I really spent a 

17 lot of time looking at problems and how to solve 

18 them, but this particular issue of climate 

19 control became of extreme interest to me.

20 Recently, a friend of mine spent some 

21 time in Costa Rica. And she --

22 MS. NOONAN: I'm sorry to interrupt. 
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1 People want to be able to hear you.

2 MS. GILMER: Okay. Recently, about a 

3 year ago a friend of mine spent some time in 

4 Costa Rica, and she brought the problem -- the 

5 problem that came to me from her was the fact 

6 that she lived with people who generated their 

7 own energy needs. All of the needs that they had 

8 for energy, they created, and they had enough 

9 energy for their neighbors. Well, I never heard 

10 of anything like this, and I was wondering how do 

11 people do this. 

12 And so when she came back and she shared 

13 some things with us about the production --

14 people being able to produce energy for 

15 themselves, I began to look at what was happening 

16 in my city. And my city is Milwaukee. And I 

17 began to see how people were beginning to look at 

18 other forms of energy.

19 Now, I did not know initially the 

20 problems that we confronted. I did know about 

21 lead, lead in the schools. I knew that. I 

22 didn’t know the problems that we confronted with 
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1 generating energy and the coal problem.

2 But now that I see it, I'm seeing it 

3 differently. I see -- and also, I wanted to say 

4 that I am a member of the NAACP, and I'm not an 

5 officer but I just wanted to solve problems.

6 I see this as a problem for the nation, 

7 but all of us are responsible. We helped to 

8 create it, and we also, in many ways, can help 

9 solve it. So when I looked at what they were 

10 doing in Costa Rica and they looked at their own 

11 waste that they used with composting so that they 

12 -- even though, you know, you eat food and I knew 

13 what they did with the animals. I knew that we 

14 use the manure from the animals in order to 

15 fertilize the fields so that we'd have -- I never 

16 thought of it this way. I'm really -- let me 

17 tell you that I'm learning a great deal because I 

18 had never thought about energy in this year. And 

19 I bet a lot of people had never thought about it 

20 in this way. But we have a great opportunity. 

21 I'm very happy about the standards.

22 I didn't know about the standards that 
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1 you are generating at the EPA for our 

2 contamination. You've got to have standards 

3 because how we know whether we are in compliance 

4 or we're over the top in what we have been doing.

5 So, I like the fact that we are going to be 

6 looking at standards, and I certainly will be one 

7 of the proponents of explaining to people that 

8 you are in a community that's creating a lot of 

9 problems for you and that we do have some 

10 standards.

11 I don't know how you plan to make sure 

12 that all the communities know what the standards 

13 are, but I think the NAACP will be right there 

14 helping to share with people. And people begin 

15 to see what they -- we all do in order to reduce 

16 this problem of that contamination.

17 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

18 Terry Wiggins and Yangyang Cheng, please. 

19 [Pause.]

20 MS. NOONAN: Please go ahead. And start 

21 with spelling your name.

22 MS. WIGGINS: Good afternoon. My name is 
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1 Terry Wiggins, T-E-R-R-Y, W-I-G-G-I-N-S, and I'm 

2 representing the Interfaith Earth Network of 

3 Southeastern Wisconsin.

4 Our various faiths call us all to do the 

5 same thing, though we often express it in 

6 different language. I am a Unitarian 

7 Universalist, and one of my principles is to 

8 respect the interdependent web of all life of 

9 which we are a part, and another is to affirm the 

10 inherent worth and dignity of every person.

11 The Christians among us say that care for 

12 God's creation is what's important to them. Here 

13 are some samples from a few of many Christian 

14 denominations: The two most recent Roman 

15 Catholic Popes have spoken out on this path. 

16 Pope Benedict XVI said if you want to cultivate 

17 peace, protect creation.

18 The evangelical climate initiative signed 

19 in 2006 claims human-induced climate change is 

20 real. The consequences of climate change will be 

21 significant and will hit the pool the hardest. 

22 Christian moral convictions demand our response 
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1 to the climate change problem and the need to act 

2 now is urgent. Governments, businesses, 

3 churches, and individuals all have a role to play 

4 in addressing climate change starting now.

5 United Methodists social principles state 

6 all creation is the Lord's, and we are 

7 responsible for the ways in which we use and 

8 abuse it. Further, The General Board of Church 

9 and Society published a resolution in 2008 on 

10 environmental stewardship which lays out their 

11 theology for stewardship and the environment and 

12 principles for Christian stewardship of the 

13 environment which include responsible use of 

14 natural resources, right to live in a community 

15 free of toxic and hazardous substances, the right 

16 to clean air, responsible land use, and 

17 preservation of the diversity of life.

18 Lutherans have been strong in their 

19 teachings on the environment. Lutheran 

20 theologians have been influential leaders of the 

21 religious environmental movement. In a statement 

22 they encourage their congregations to advocate 
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1 with their local and state governments 

2 individually and corporately through local and 

3 state councils of churches.

4 Muslims also care about the environment. 

5 A few of the concluding statements in the 2003 

6 Islamic Faith Statement on the Environment tell 

7 us that there are several Quran principles that 

8 taken in their totality state in clear terms that 

9 Allah is the creator of the universe and indeed 

10 its owner. Allah has invited to partake of the 

11 fruits of the earth for their rightful 

12 nourishment and enjoyment. He has also directed 

13 them not to waste that which Allah has provided. 

14 Furthermore, Allah has also ordered humans to 

15 administer his responsibilities with justice. 

16 Above all, people should conserve the balance of 

17 Allah's creation on earth.

18 I could easily go on with many more 

19 statements from Hindu and Buddhist and other 

20 faith perspectives, but my time is about up. I 

21 will conclude by saying that our faiths call us 

22 to make any progress we can toward a cleaner 
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1 environment. One step along the way would be to 

2 have a cleaner and safer power sector. The 

3 carbon pollution standard as proposed by EPA is 

4 an important part of that progress, but it is 

5 only part of the solution because it would only 

6 apply to new power plants, and power plants are 

7 not the only source of carbon pollution.

8 While there may be some strong and 

9 influential voices for weakening the standard, I 

10 say from a religious perspective that it needs to 

11 be strengthened, finalized, and adopted. 

12 Thank you.

13 MS. CHENG: Thank you. Good afternoon, 

14 ladies and gentlemen. I am Yangyang Cheng, Y-A15 N-G-Y-A-N-G, C-H-E-N-G, Ph.D. candidate in 

16 physics at University of Chicago.

17 First of all I would like to express my 

18 sincere gratitude to the EPA for holding this 

19 public hearing and to Unions of Concerned 

20 Scientists whose help enabled me to be here today 

21 to voice my support for the EPA standards to 

22 limit carbon pollution from new power plants.
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1 I am a physicist. If there is anything 

2 that my scientific background and training has 

3 taught me is that the facts remain true whether 

4 you're believing them or not.

5 [Laughter.}

6 MS. CHENG: And these are the facts. 

7 First, climate change is happening. Second, 

8 climate change poses health risks for the general 

9 public. Third, certain human activities, 

10 including carbon emissions from power plants, 

11 contribute to climate change. Climate change is 

12 not an ideology. It is a factual truth. 

13 Environmental protection is not a Democratic 

14 mission or a Republican mission. It is a 

15 universal mission. Clean air is not an 

16 entitlement. It is a human right.

17 Regulations set in place to preserve the 

18 air we breathe, the land we walk on, and the 

19 world we live in are not impediments for to our 

20 personal freedom. They are protections for our 

21 freedom from pollutants, our freedom to be safe 

22 and healthy.
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1 The immediate costs of some of these 

2 regulations are not a burden to our economy. 

3 They're investments in our future that bring in 

4 tremendous net benefits in terms of savings in 

5 medical costs, clean-up efforts, and human 

6 capital. 

7 More importantly, the regulations serve 

8 as incentives for development of existing forms 

9 of new energy and exploration of new energy 

10 sources where the potential for financial growth 

11 and job creation is infinite.

12 Since its founding the EPA has performed 

13 its duty of protecting human health and 

14 environment. Every single one of us today is a 

15 beneficiary to that relentless effort. Thank you 

16 so very much.

17 Just a few weeks ago on March 27th of 

18 this year the EPA released standards to reduce 

19 carbon emissions from new power plants. In spite 

20 of the ongoing attacks from certain politicians 

21 (unintelligible) this is a major step forward. I 

22 applaud the EPA and its partners for their 
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1 courage and conviction, and I sincerely urge that 

2 the Agency will be able to take this effort one 

3 step further to issue emission standards for 

4 existing power plants as well.

5 While certain industry groups may be 

6 blinded by short-term financial benefits, the 

7 government is not a for-profit organization, and 

8 our society is not merely a balance sheet. It is 

9 ultimately about we the people, our sky, our 

10 land, our health. The world we live in and the 

11 world we leave behind.

12 The environmental footprints we place on 

13 this planet will last beyond any immediate 

14 election cycle. Excessive carbon-emission15 induced climate change is happening under our 

16 watch. It is impacting our lives right now. And 

17 it's part of our civic duty and moral conscience 

18 when we ask ourselves the question. A heated up 

19 world suffocating under a thick blanket of carbon 

20 -- is that the legacy we want to leave behind to 

21 generations to come?

22 I am speaking to you here today as a 
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1 young physicist in training, as a concerned 

2 individual, and as a Chinese girl who came across 

3 the greatest ocean on earth because she believes 

4 in this country and thinks it exceptional. The 

5 very fact the members of the public, including 

6 myself, have the opportunity to voice our support 

7 for the EPA's efforts, this very fact stands as a 

8 testament to the strength and character of our 

9 democracy. And let's put this strength and 

10 character to work for a cleaner and safer world.

11 Thank you very much.

12 [Applause.]

13 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

14 Up next we have Mitchell Avant and 

15 Virginia Wisdom, please.

16 And the next pairing just so you're ready 

17 would be Dr. Robert A. Rosenstein and Terry Grace 

18 will be next.

19 MR. AVANT: Good afternoon. My name is 

20 Mitchell Avant. Last name is A-V-A-N-T. I live 

21 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, born and bred there.

22 And one of my -- why I'm here is about 
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1 more of a personal nature. Lived in Milwaukee 

2 for 44 years. My family has lived there -- my 

3 entire family has lived there for the last 40. 

4 And unbeknownst to us -- and this is what I find 

5 interesting as I started delving into this -- is 

6 that there's a power plant that's like basically 

7 15 miles away from my mother's home. And I have 

8 a twin sister, and she had a lot of asthma 

9 problems when we were kids. And as people know, 

10 asthma can be a very life-threatening experience. 

11 So just watching that off and on when we were 

12 kids just kind of really --

13 It is interesting because Milwaukee is an 

14 industrial city. I mean, there's a lot of 

15 plants, a lot of emissions being delivered into 

16 the ozone. And the environment's not conducive, 

17 I think, for -- at least I don't believe for our 

18 people to breathe. And I believe that, you know, 

19 watching my sister go in and out of the hospital, 

20 taking medication -- I have a niece and nephew 

21 who are also asthmatic as well. And in fact, my 

22 sister wound up moving closer to the plant that 
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1 I'm going to discuss with you.

2 The plant is called the Valley Plant. 

3 It's in the center of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's 

4 a predominantly African-American and Hispanic 

5 community. This particular plant has been under 

6 some conversation or rather attention regarding 

7 its quality of emissions that it's putting out. 

8 And, quite frankly, it's not meeting the levels 

9 that basically you guys are saying standard. I 

10 believe the new standards that you guys have is 

11 1,000 pounds per CO2 megawatt an hour, which is up 

12 as part of our proposal.

13 And the reason I'm talking about this 

14 plant is that I believe this type of plant should 

15 not be in the city like that. It shouldn't. I 

16 think that should have better standards. I think 

17 it should go to gas versus coal.

18 I know it's an older facility, and I know 

19 we're discussing newer facilities, but this is 

20 staring everybody right in the face. So my 

21 concern is that we address the new facilities but 

22 we also look at the old ones that are basically 
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1 not meeting the standards that are needed.

2 So, that being said, my personal issue is 

3 that we talk about jobs; we talk about -- you 

4 know, we talk about jobs; we talk about this; we 

5 talk about that; and at the end of the day it's a 

6 business, but to me it's more of a moral issue 

7 that people -- this is something that people 

8 should say, okay, you have the right to live 

9 longer, and for the fact that we're here talking 

10 about it, and these companies aren't doing the 

11 right thing to meet the standards is just mind 

12 boggling.

13 So, that's all I have to say. Thank you.

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Ms. Wisdom?

15 MS. WISDOM: My name is Virginia Wisdom. 

16 That's V-I-R-G-I-N-I-A, last name is Wisdom, W-I17 S-D-O-M. I live in Naperville, Illinois, and I 

18 grew up in Gary, Indiana, where the coal plants 

19 there not only power residential use but also 

20 power the steel mills. 

21 I thank you for this opportunity to tell 

22 you how we live and how we die. I was born on a 
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1 farm and moved to Gary, Indiana, as a small child 

2 with my parents. My parents believed that city 

3 life would give me great advantages. Gary had 

4 wonderful schools. Gary had a world-class 

5 Carnegie library. My neighborhood in Gary had a 

6 sense of community where neighbors cared for each 

7 other and tried to help each other out as much as 

8 they possibly could, but there was one thing that 

9 we could not avoid, one thing that we could not 

10 help each other out with -- cancer. Cancer was 

11 the Grim Reaper that pervaded every aspect of our 

12 world in the form of the coal dust pollution that 

13 fell constantly in every corner.

14 As young children we liked to play 

15 outside; however, when the sky got yellow, the 

16 rotten egg smell was so bad that our mothers 

17 called us inside in futile hopes of avoiding the 

18 worst of it.

19 On warm days we had outdoor picnics; 

20 however, we had to keep the food covered, and we 

21 had to wash down the picnic tables about every 15 

22 minutes because that was about how long it took 
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1 for everything to get covered up with the filthy 

2 black soot.

3 In winter it snowed nearly every day. We 

4 had a lot of late effect snow storms in Gary that 

5 did not fall anywhere else. There was another 

6 thing notable about our snow. Within about 15 

7 minutes it turned black. When it fell on our 

8 cars, when we wiped it off, it would actually 

9 scratch the cars' paint. If the soot would do 

10 that to paint, can you imagine what it did to our 

11 lungs?

12 I moved to Illinois for college and 

13 eventually opened a chain of health clubs where I 

14 took detailed health histories on thousands of 

15 people. I also stayed in touch with my Gary, 

16 Indiana, community. In my experience as both 

17 owner of a chain of health clubs in the western 

18 suburbs of Chicago and as a collector of vital 

19 statistics from my Gary, Indiana, high school 

20 class, it is obvious that the cancer rates for my 

21 former classmates is drastically higher than 

22 those for my health club clientele of the same 
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1 age.

2 The average American lives to age 87. 

3 Nearly 25 percent of my classmates developed 

4 cancer in middle age, mostly those who were born 

5 in Gary and lived there all their lives. If I 

6 had not moved away from Gary, I, too, would 

7 probably have cancer.

8 Many of those Garyites who got cancer at 

9 an early age represent the very brightest and the 

10 best. Let me introduce to you to some of them. 

11 My class valedictorian was Rosalie Berger. 

12 Rosalie became a lawyer and did extensive civil 

13 rights litigation. She developed cancer at age 

14 52. She nearly died, but fortunately she is 

15 still here 10 years later.

16 Doris Vanhorn was not as fortunate. She 

17 was a world-class athlete. As a child she stood 

18 up to bullies, and as an adult she stood up for 

19 human rights. Even on her deathbed she was 

20 writing letters to her Congressman asking for an 

21 end to the war in Iraq. She died of cancer at 

22 age 56.
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1 Marty Szymanski was about the handsomest 

2 boy I ever saw. He sang with me in the church 

3 choir. He sang like an angel, and now he 

4 probably is an angel. He died of cancer at age 

5 57.

6 Christine Davis was the President of the 

7 Student Council and also Chairman of my church 

8 youth group at the same time. She had 

9 outstanding leadership skills. She died of 

10 cancer in a nursing home at age 55. Her family 

11 said she had been in such terrible shape and so 

12 much pain for so long that her death was actually 

13 a blessing.

14 MS. NOONAN: Ms. Wisdom.

15 MS. WISDOM: Thank you. 

16 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

17 Ma'am, we would be happy to take your 

18 written comments if you want to submit them.

19 MS. WISDOM: Thank you.

20 Dr. Rosenstein?

21 DR. ROSENSTEIN: Yes, my name is Dr. Bob 

22 Rosenstein. I'm here as representing myself, but 
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1 I'm here as a concerned citizen, an 

2 environmentalist, and as a scientist from the 

3 disciplines of physics and chemistry. I'm a 

4 member of different organizations like the Union 

5 of Concerned Scientists, the Sierra Club, Chicago 

6 Consult on Science and Technology, American 

7 Chemical Society, American Physical Society, but 

8 I just want to present my perspective on carbon, 

9 how I feel it impacts climate change and what we 

10 have to do to help resolve this issue to mitigate 

11 this global climate crisis. 

12 Now, carbon to me is an integral part of 

13 the tapestry of our universe. It's certainly 

14 been part of the structure of earth since the 

15 earth was formed billions years ago. We had 

16 carbon in the crust and in the atmosphere where 

17 it's -- in pre-industrial times we had a 

18 concentration of carbon dioxide of 350 parts per 

19 million. We know that if the carbon dioxide 

20 concentration in the atmosphere goes appreciably 

21 below that value you will have a deep freeze, and 

22 you won't be able to survive. If it goes above 
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1 it, we're going to bake and we won't be able to 

2 survive either. So natural processes over 

3 periods of years have brought the carbon dioxide 

4 to about 350 ppm, but because of our addiction to 

5 fossil fuels we're now up to 389 parts per 

6 million and a rising global mean temperature. 

7 And that has terrible consequences for the planet 

8 earth and our citizens everywhere.

9 You know, for example, we have these 

10 decaying water supply. We have these terrible 

11 natural disasters like flooding which impacted 

12 Pakistan. We had the forest fires in Israel and 

13 in Russia. We had the heat wave in Europe which 

14 led to the loss of thousands of lives, and we 

15 really have to mitigate this growth of CO2 and try 

16 and keep it as close to the natural levels as 

17 possible.

18 I know on Monday evening President Obama

19 went to Joplin, Missouri, to speak at the high 

20 school ceremony for 190 people who died as a 

21 result of the terrible tornado which our experts 

22 will tell us the tornado strength is intensified 
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1 by the climate change. And we certainly know 

2 that Katrina was augmented by the increasing 

3 temperature of the Gulf waters, and these are 

4 things which are going to terribly exacerbate our 

5 culture.

6 Now, the Director of the (unintelligible) 

7 happened in California's agency (unintelligible) 

8 new carbon neutral renewables says we're headed 

9 towards the CO2 concentration of 440 parts per 

10 million which means that we may not be able to 

11 sustain any viable civilization if we reach that 

12 high. How do we avert that? 

13 I think the EPA regulations to keep the 

14 CO2 levels at the lowest possible on a nationwide 

15 scale is going to help. And I think by setting 

16 the house in order this way it would help to 

17 improve community health, and we're going to be 

18 able to outreach also to other countries which 

19 are putting on line these coal-fired power plants 

20 to -- which threatened to destroy the climate 

21 resiliency.

22 One example I can give you is China 
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1 because we had -- at the Chicago Council on 

2 Science and Technology last March -- a discussion 

3 of the energy issues with China. The Chinese 

4 Council people told us that 60 percent of their 

5 electricity is generated by coal and they're 

6 desperate for new forms of renewable energy. So 

7 if we show the way and cut down our emissions, we 

8 can work along with the Chinese and these other 

9 countries to mitigate the level of CO2 and bring 

10 (unintelligible) 440 parts per million.

11 We don't want to see our coastal regions 

12 flooded. We don't want to see these massive 

13 migrations. We don’t want to see our water 

14 supplies polluted. And so let us implement 

15 these regulations and move expeditiously to bring 

16 on line wind, solar, geothermal, hydrogen in our 

17 electricity generation and also in our 

18 transportation center. And that way I think we 

19 can really be a light for the nation and help the 

20 other countries of the world move this way, too.

21 So, that's my perspective. And carbon is 

22 not evil if you keep it within the natural levels 
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1 by natural processes, and we all need it. It's 

2 part of our bodies, but we cannot let the levels 

3 build up because we (unintelligible).

4 So, thank you for your time and the 

5 regulations (unintelligible) impact, and I 

6 certainly respect President Obama for introducing 

7 these to help our country move forward and bring 

8 the rest of the world along with us. Thank you.

9 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Mr. Grace?

10 MR. GRACE: Hello. My name is Terry 

11 Grace. I'm a citizen of Oak Park. I am 

12 testifying primarily as a private citizen but I 

13 am in the Sierra Club.

14 I wanted to thank the EPA for granting us 

15 the opportunity to -- for public comments on the 

16 carbon pollution standards for our country. The 

17 EPA is a vanguard of protection against polluters 

18 and for the public welfare upon whom we all 

19 depend.

20 Thank you for your service to our country 

21 in spite of significant political, litigious, and

22 the economic pressures (unintelligible) against 
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1 your agency.

2 There are massive amounts of information 

3 indicating the negative effects of carbon 

4 pollution upon our environment, our health, and 

5 the weather. That said, it remains difficult for 

6 the average person to relate to the to the --

7 this issue on a personal, tangible level.

8 I have a personal experience of the 

9 impact of carbon emissions that I have seen over 

10 time that I'd like to share. We bought a 

11 vacation home in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan 

12 in 1986. At the time we bought our cottage, the 

13 summer highs were generally in the low 80's and 

14 the locals would complain about how uncomfortable 

15 it was in those days. Air conditioning was 

16 almost nonexistent up there at the time because 

17 there was no need for it.

18 Snow routinely covered the ground for 

19 (unintelligible) throughout most of the winter. 

20 The lakes and the water table were routinely 

21 replenished by the cycle of heavy snows in the 

22 winter and rain throughout the rest of the year. 
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1 Temperatures in the north woods began to slowly 

2 rise about 15 years ago.

3 The first time some of our friends used 

4 our cottage and talked about how hot it was 

5 during their visit, we were amazed. They 

6 reported temperatures in the 90's. No one had 

7 experienced temperatures that high up there. 

8 Then we experienced a few scattered days of 

9 similar temperatures. This had been unheard of 

10 in the UP. 

11 Air conditioning is now common in 

12 businesses and in some homes. The area 

13 experiences routine summer temperatures in the 

14 80's now and occasional days in the 90's every 

15 year.

16 We went to our cottage this past weekend 

17 to open it up for the season. On Saturday the 

18 high for the area reached 90 degrees, surely a 

19 record for May 19th in the North Woods.

20 Seven years ago a phenomena began to 

21 occur in the North Woods. In the Land of Lakes 

22 we began to have droughts. This began with 
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1 warmer winters and diminished snowfall followed 

2 by minimal rainfall. This pattern continued for 

3 five consecutive years.

4 The World Snowmobile Dirty Race held 

5 annually in Eagle River, Wisconsin, 20 miles 

6 south of us, was actually canceled due to a lack 

7 of snow at least once, maybe twice. I’m not sure 

8 about that. 

9 The diminished snowfall took away a 

10 primary source of precipitation from the North 

11 Woods, and the lake level started dropping, 

12 eventually dramatically. The end of our dock 

13 stood in one or two inches of water. Boats were 

14 beached. And the biggest lake in our area, Lac 

15 Vieux Desert, the water level dropped so low that 

16 boats could not get out to the water. Some 

17 resorts built piers extending 100 feet out 

18 further into the lake to accommodate boats.

19 The trees in the North Woods have been 

20 weakened from the increased heat and drought 

21 conditions. Our cottage is on a lake called 

22 Birch Lake. The contrast around the lake of 
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1 green conifers, other deciduous trees, and live 

2 birches was beautiful. The demise live birches 

3 was mostly attributed to the birch borer. That 

4 nemesis had been around for a while, but 

5 seemingly they became more volatile.

6 The prolific birch trees around our lake 

7 now are almost gone. People have asked me, why 

8 did they name it Birch Lake. There are no birch 

9 trees around here. 

10 There has been an increase in storms with 

11 high winds as well. Combined with the trees' 

12 weakened conditions, blow downs have become 

13 somewhat common up there. We have experienced a 

14 sharp increase of downed trees on our own 

15 property. We have also begun to see the loss of 

16 the beautiful hemlocks of the North Woods. The 

17 hemlocks are dying of diseases or are being blown 

18 down at a pace never seen before. It's a sad 

19 process to watch. All of these issues appear to 

20 be related to climate change as stimulated by 

21 excessive CO2 levels.

22 In summary I'd like to say that in my 
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1 opinion the effects of massive CO2 emissions on 

2 our environments are substantial, costly, and 

3 potentially irrevocable. The ultimate impacts on 

4 these emissions are not totally clear to us, but 

5 few appear to be beneficial to our country, our 

6 economy, our environment, and to our people.

7 I appeal to you, the representatives of 

8 the EPA, to take the next action available to you 

9 to reverse this dangerous path we are on at this 

10 time. My personal experiences in the Upper 

11 Peninsula of Michigan tell me that time is of the 

12 essence. Please approve the stronger carbon 

13 pollution standards for new power plants as 

14 quickly as possible.

15 Thank you for your time and the 

16 opportunity to present my concerns.

17 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

18 Ann Schultz and Verena Owen, please?

19 MS. SCHULTZ: Hello. I think I will be 

20 quite brief. I want to speak about the refinery 

21 which --

22 MS. NOONAN: Can you first start with 
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1 your name and how you spell it?

2 MS. SCHULTZ: Oh, I'm sorry. Ann 

3 Schultz. I'm a private citizen, also a member of 

4 the National Wildlife Federation, and the first 

5 that I heard about this refinery (unintelligible) 

6 which already had the fourth largest refinery in 

7 the United States there. What they're going to 

8 do is to increase it to become the sixth -- to 

9 contain the sixth largest refinery in the United 

10 States. So in other words absolutely 

11 (unintelligible) not skip a beat in their work. 

12 They assured Chicago that there would be no toxic 

13 sludge coming into Lake Michigan. 

14 Of course they lied. Everybody knew they 

15 lied, including the State of Indiana which 

16 colluded and said that the toxic waste would be 

17 so small as to be not even measureable. 

18 So, the first I really heard of it was 

19 when Mayor Daly had thousands of us out signing 

20 petitions. And he had never done anything like 

21 that before. High school students, senior 

22 citizens, everybody was out there on the beaches 
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1 signing these petitions for Mayor Daly, that they 

2 should not be allowed to expand this refinery.

3 I thought, okay, it's going to be all 

4 right, but of course, Mayor Daly generally gets 

5 what he wants. Well, in this case he failed to 

6 get what he wanted.

7 As was predictable, of course, BP has --

8 well, the amount of money it has is unbelievable. 

9 So they built their refinery. And sure enough,

10 toxic sludge did come. All our beaches were 

11 closed a great deal that summer and the 

12 subsequent summer, and it was not surprising. It 

13 could have been stopped. And, oh, please, I hope 

14 you're stopping all of this. It's so awful. 

15 It's killing the wildlife. It's killing the 

16 fish. It's damaging us. I heard the very moving 

17 testimony of the person who knew all these people 

18 who died of cancer. We've got to put a stop to 

19 what's going on.

20 The other thing I wanted to talk briefly 

21 about -- and I hope I'm not too incoherent, but 

22 the polar bears -- I love polar bears, always 
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1 have. And what I think everybody here has 

2 probably seen that Wrangel Island and that 

3 there's no longer enough ice to support the 

4 weight of the adult polar bear. So they're 

5 trapped on that tiny little piece of ice until 

6 they can move on. And there's going to be less 

7 and less and less and less until it's not going 

8 to be too long before we have no polar bears 

9 anymore.

10 But the cruelty of it, the cruelty of it 

11 is so horrible that they don't care at all about 

12 these animals. They don't care at all about us, 

13 about what's happening with the global warming, 

14 what's happening to the ice caps.

15 And for me, the metaphor for the whole 

16 thing really is -- in these polar bears in this 

17 ever shrinking little piece of ice that they have 

18 to stand on. And so I just wanted to come and 

19 tell you do something about the polar bears, 

20 please.

21 [Laughter.]

22 MS. SCHULTZ: So that's all I have to 
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1 say.

2 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Please stay. 

3 Please stay.

4 Go ahead. No, stay, stay.

5 MS. SCHULTZ: Oh, stay. Oh, okay.

6 MS. OWEN: Good afternoon. I didn't get 

7 the right shirt, but I'm wearing the right color, 

8 so -- thanks --

9 MS. NOONAN: And your name your --

10 MS. OWEN: Yes, I will get to that.

11 Thanks for being here today.

12 My name is Verena Owen, and I am a 

13 concerned citizen, a wife, a mother. And in my 

14 spare time I am the volunteer coordinator of the 

15 Sierra Club's Beyond Coal Campaign.

16 Sierra Club was founded in 1892 and now 

17 has over 1.4 million members and supporters and 

18 is the oldest and largest environmental 

19 organization in the nation.

20 I came today to add my voice to the broad 

21 coalition of 1.3 million people who already e22 mailed you, wrote to you, or spoken to you in 
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1 support of the proposed carbon pollution standard 

2 for new coal-fired power plants.

3 Just this past weekend my son graduated 

4 from college with a degree in chemistry and 

5 physics, with a minor in physics, and in his 

6 college application he stated that he wanted to 

7 go to college to get some skill so he can move 

8 this country into a better future and that all 

9 young people -- and I'm so glad to see so many 

10 young faces here in the audience -- that all you

11 people hoped to change the world, and like all 

12 mothers, I believe he will.

13 Ten years ago when my son was still in 

14 grade school, I was the person -- for a while the 

15 only volunteer on the (unintelligible) Beyond 

16 Coal Campaign.

17 In the last decade over 200 new proposed 

18 -- over 200 new coal-fired power plants were 

19 proposed, but only a handful of them were built. 

20 The Beyond Coal Campaign envisions that no new 

21 coal plants will be built, that we will see the 

22 retirement of old coal, and their replacement by 
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1 clean energy. And we are also working to keep 

2 coal in the ground and out of the markets.

3 The 200 coal plants did not get built 

4 really, in retrospect, does not come as a big 

5 surprise to me. They were rejected by ordinary 

6 citizens, by grandparents, by moms and dads, and 

7 students who didn't want to live with more 

8 pollution in their lives and instead want a 

9 cleaner, and better, and healthier future for 

10 their families.

11 Small business owners realize that 

12 reliance on big coal does not offer them a good 

13 deal. New coal plants have been rejected by 

14 legislators, regulators, and utility boards 

15 realizing that exposing their ratepayers with 

16 ever increasing costs after 31 years of coal17 fired generation was not a good deal, but cleaner 

18 and more cost-effective alternatives are already 

19 available.

20 For instance, in Illinois just recently 

21 voters in many communities have opted to support 

22 community aggregation that would be 100 percent 
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1 from renewable energy sources. Political leaders 

2 have stepped up who saw the opportunity for their 

3 states to become the 21st century leader in the 

4 clean energy field. And finally, even financial 

5 backers backed away and did not want to be 

6 exposed to the fact that coal is no longer 

7 competitive in price to greener alternatives.

8 As a matter of fact, since 2008 and all 

9 the years my son was in college, not a single new 

10 coal plant broke ground legally. 

11 The proposed new carbon pollution 

12 standard mars but it does not cause the end of 

13 business as usual for electric generation from 

14 coal. The Supreme Court concluded that carbon 

15 pollution is a threat to human health. EPA found 

16 that carbon pollution endangers the public health 

17 and welfare. And people from all kind of 

18 backgrounds and all kinds of interests agree.

19 By following the law and issuing the 

20 proposed rule EPA has taken an important first 

21 step to safeguard our families and communities, 

22 and, indeed, our planet from pollution that, as 
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1 you will hear many times today from regular 

2 citizens, from scientists, from nurses and 

3 doctors is linked to a rise in temperature and 

4 all the dire consequences. I was very moved by 

5 the gentleman from Michigan. I happened to walk 

6 in the room and he talked about how his world has 

7 changed, and Ann's passion for the polar bears 

8 was really telling, too.

9 And that also leads to an ever-increasing 

10 level of unhealthy smog. I tell my kids that if 

11 you're in a hole, stop digging. So the next step 

12 is to address carbon pollution from existing 

13 sources. My son and his three brothers and one 

14 is working for public safety, one is a political

15 organizer, and one is in Afghanistan. One will 

16 either be a diplomat or a DJ, depending.

17 [Laughter.]

18 MS. OWEN: They and I -- both understand 

19 the challenges and opportunities that new clean 

20 energy future will bring to this country.

21 Can I have 30 seconds to wrap up?

22 MS. NOONAN: If you'd like. One 
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1 sentence, and then we'll take the rest for the 

2 record.

3 MS. OWEN: I totally support the rule.

4 [Laughter.]

5 MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you very much.

6 Andrew Clarke and Pamela Ortner? And 

7 then on deck we'll have Charlotte Des Jardins and 

8 Kevin Kuhn, please.

9 Mr. Clarke, would you like to start?

10 MR. CLARKE: Hi, my name is Andrew 

11 Clarke, and I’m a concerned citizen and I also 

12 volunteer with the Sierra Club.

13 Well, I am now a small business 

14 consultant in Chicago. I have a Ph.D. in 

15 materials science from the University of 

16 Wisconsin. I also did post-doctoral studies at 

17 Cornell University, British Columbia, and 

18 University of Washington. I was not a 

19 climatologist, but I do have formal training in 

20 physics and chemistry.

21 I first heard about the idea of climate 

22 change in the late 1980's when I still worked in 
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1 science. At the time I remember I thought the 

2 idea was interesting, but I was not worried since 

3 it seemed so far off. But over the past 25 years 

4 I followed the debate, and I have become 

5 increasingly concerned.

6 The scientific evidence is now 

7 overwhelming that we are affecting the earth's 

8 climate through burning fossil fuels, 

9 deforestation, and other practices.

10 For approximately 800,000 years the 

11 global average carbon dioxide level in the 

12 atmosphere was below 300 parts per million. 

13 Beginning approximately 250 years ago, roughly 

14 coinciding with the start of the industrial 

15 revolution, carbon dioxide began increasing. The 

16 level now stands at about 393 parts per million.

17 In an early paper Dr. James Hansen 

18 estimated a safe of carbon dioxide in the 

19 atmosphere was about 450 parts per million. Then 

20 a few years ago, based on a detailed look at 

21 historical data from ice core samples and other 

22 sources, he revised his estimate downward from 
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1 450 to 350. This threshold of 350 parts per 

2 million is now accepted by most scientists as the 

3 maximum level at which our earth's climate is 

4 stable. 

5 We are now 43 parts per million above 

6 this level and climbing every year. Furthermore, 

7 the rate of increase is itself increasing. In 

8 the 1960's the average rate of increase was 1 

9 part per million per year. Today the average 

10 yearly increase is over 2 parts per million.

11 At some point carbon emissions will reach 

12 a tipping point where the rate of increase goes 

13 out of control. The point where this happens is 

14 not certain, but if it does happen, civilization 

15 as we know it will be in danger from rising sea 

16 levels, violent storms, flooding, droughts, and 

17 species extinctions due to loss of natural 

18 habitats. The tipping point may be as little as 

19 50 years from now if we continue on our present 

20 course.

21 Well, there's strong evidence that 

22 climate change is being caused by man, and it is 
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1 getting worse. Our country is not addressing the 

2 core problem in any meaningful way. The carbon 

3 pollution standard would be an important step in 

4 the right direction. It will either force new 

5 coal power plants to invest in new technologies 

6 to reduce carbon emissions or change to lower 

7 carbon intensive power sources. The ruling will 

8 effectively increase demand for wind, solar, and 

9 energy efficiency.

10 I live in a high-rise condo along Lake 

11 Shore Drive in downtown Chicago. Over the past 

12 few years the weather has become more extreme --

13 higher wind speeds, more violent thunderstorms, 

14 warmer days and nights, especially during the 

15 spring and fall. This past winter was one of the 

16 warmest winters in history, and in March we broke 

17 several records for high temperatures.

18 I grew up on the east coast, and I have 

19 friends all across the United States. No matter 

20 where I go, people tell me stories about how the 

21 weather is getting crazy. 

22 The fossil fuel industry will fight every 
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1 new regulation proposed by the EPA. They will 

2 say this regulation will destroy jobs, but what 

3 they will not say is that it should lead to new 

4 jobs and even new industries. Studies show that 

5 new coal power plants create fewer jobs than 

6 solar power plants or wind turbines. The carbon 

7 pollution standard should lead to a net increase 

8 in jobs in our country.

9 By helping to level the playing field for 

10 non fossil fuels, it will begin to reduce our 

11 country's carbon emissions, which will, in turn, 

12 help slow down climate change. The effect of 

13 increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is 

14 not just a local or a regional problem. It's a 

15 global problem. The United States is still the 

16 economic leader. We may have lost ground 

17 recently during the recession, but we can 

18 recover. The carbon pollution standard will help 

19 us get our economy back on track by shifting 

20 investments toward low carbon energy sources 

21 leading to new technologies and new jobs. This 

22 is not just good for the environment, but it's 
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1 good for the economy.

2 Thank you.

3 MS. NOONAN: And can you spell your last 

4 name, too?

5 MR. CLARKE: Clarke, C-L-A-R-K-E.

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Ms. Ortner?

7 MS. ORTNER: Good afternoon. I didn't 

8 wear the right colored shirt, but I have the same 

9 color heart.

10 [Laughter.]

11 MS. ORTNER: Good afternoon. My name is 

12 Pamela Ortner, and I'm the Michigan Environmental 

13 Health Nurse Advocate for Health Care Without 

14 Harm. I am a public health nurse advocate and 

15 educator. Health Care Without Harm is an 

16 international coalition of more than 430 

17 organizations in 52 countries working to 

18 transform the health care sector worldwide 

19 without compromising patient safety or care so 

20 that it is ecologically sustainable and no longer 

21 a source of harm to public health and the 

22 environment.
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1 If you remember the campaign a few years 

2 ago, the medical waste incinerators were closed 

3 as a result of Health Care Without Harm's work as 

4 well as reducing the incidence of mercury 

5 thermometers and sphygmomanometers in hospitals 

6 and in health care.

7 I appreciate this opportunity to comment 

8 on the proposed carbon pollution standard that 

9 will limit carbon pollution for new power plants. 

10 Health Care Without Harm supports the 

11 Environmental Protection Agency's efforts to 

12 protect the public's health through the 

13 implementation of this rule. I am in strong and 

14 support of this EPA and this administration who, 

15 without both, we would not be here at this 

16 hearing. We would not have the promulgation of 

17 this rule. Thank you very much.

18 This first-ever national industrial 

19 carbon pollution standard for new power plants is 

20 essential to protect public health. By advancing 

21 several cleaner safeguards that address carbon, 

22 mercury, soot, smog, and other toxic pollutants, 
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1 the EPA is holding big polluters accountable and 

2 protecting our kids and families from deadly, 

3 dangerous air pollution.

4 As of today more than one million 

5 comments -- that's historical, by the way -- have 

6 been generated in support of this carbon rule 

7 Health providers and advocates, families, 

8 community members, environmental advocates, and 

9 industry leaders have added their voice of 

10 support to this rule, as have nurses.

11 I brought over 350 cards supporting this 

12 rule from nurses and community members in my 

13 community that I have collected. 

14 Carbon pollution is most dangerous for 

15 children and the most vulnerable of our 

16 population. Rising temperatures are likely to 

17 increase smog pollution, which will be a trigger 

18 for asthma attacks and can cause permanent damage 

19 to and reduce the function of a child's lungs. 

20 Asthma is a chronic, often debilitating condition 

21 that has no cure. During an asthma episode the 

22 airways become constricted and swollen. The 
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1 chest goes very tight, and it becomes very 

2 difficult to breathe. I'm sure you all remember 

3 the fish out of the fish bowl commercial.

4 Data from the Centers for Disease Control 

5 have prevention and from the American Lung 

6 Association detailed prevalence and costs of 

7 asthma in the United States. In 2008 almost 

8 700,000 children had to go to the emergency room 

9 because of asthma. The total estimated 

10 incremental direct cost of asthma in the United 

11 States is more than $53 billion a year.

12 But we can't forget the personal cost 

13 either. As a nurse for over -- I'll say it -- 35 

14 years, I'll never forget the face of a child with 

15 asthma gasping for air. Ask any nurse. They'll 

16 tell you of the impacts of ozone alert days and 

17 really hot days and the affect it has on people 

18 in our communities and our children.

19 Parents, most often mothers, must have 

20 ways to stay home with their child who is ill. 

21 And I experienced that when I had a young child 

22 many moons ago who had asthma. And it can be a 
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1 financial hardship, but if the home doesn't have 

2 air conditioning, the child still will be exposed 

3 to unhealthy air.

4 According to the CDC, asthma episodes 

5 keep children out of school about 10.5 million 

6 lost school days in 2008 and takes adults out of 

7 the workplace, accounting for more than 14 

8 million lost work days in 2008. An estimated 7 

9 million children and over 17 million Americans in 

10 the U.S. have asthma. As you know, we're 

11 suffering. And our cost -- the direct cost of 

12 asthma in Michigan is almost $2 billion.

13 Children, however, are not the only ones 

14 negatively impacted. Exposure to carbon dioxide 

15 increases the likelihood that seniors with health 

16 problems would be hospitalized. The elderly, 

17 those most likely to have heart and lung 

18 ailments, those who already have diminished lung 

19 capacity, and those who are poor and live in more 

20 highly polluted areas will be disproportionately 

21 affected.

22 We know there is very little scientific 
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1 debate about the harmful effects of climate 

2 change. The proposed rule will save lives, 

3 protect the health of millions, and bring about 

4 an action that is long overdue. We can and must 

5 act to ensure we protect the most vulnerable 

6 among us.

7 Thank you very much.

8 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. And we can 

9 --

10 MS. ORTNER: And I brought the cards in a 

11 Sanders bag which is an ice cream company that's 

12 indigenous to Michigan.

13 [Laughter.]

14 Do you want the cards?

15 MS. NOONAN: Yes, please.

16 MS. ORTNER: If you would have said no, 

17 I'd put them back.

18 MS. NOONAN: Charlotte Des Jardins.

19 MS. DES JARDINS: Jardins.

20 MS. NOONAN: Say again?

21 MS. DES JARDINS: De Jardins.

22 MS. NOONAN: And Kevin Kuhn.
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1 MS. DES JARDINS: Hi. Well, I see 

2 there's a lot of people here today. And, you 

3 know, as you can tell, I'm probably the oldest --

4 well, one of the oldest people here.

5 [Laughter.]

6 MS. DES JARDINS: And so, that means that 

7 I've been through hundreds of hearings just like 

8 this, sometimes with thousands of people, at the 

9 local level, at the state level, and at the 

10 national level on all kinds of issues that 

11 everybody -- not just those that are here today -

12 - but the thousands of people that are going to 

13 be impacted by the proposals that are being made.

14 Over the years I've done this all through 

15 my adult life. On education, on mental health, 

16 on health care, and the environment, and all 

17 kinds of things.

18 And most of the time that I've been at 

19 these hearings, I've been there complaining. I 

20 mean, you know, isn't that how it usually goes? 

21 We're there to complain because the government or 

22 somebody in some public agency is about to do 
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1 something that's really going to harm people and 

2 hurt people.

3 So, here, for the first time I find that 

4 really there's cause for congratulations, and 

5 cause for celebrations, and cause to say thank 

6 you for doing something right, doing the right 

7 thing, doing something that's really going to 

8 help all of us, all of our family members, and 

9 everybody, not just in Illinois but really all 

10 over the country. So, thank you. And I wish you 

11 to continue to do the right thing.

12 That's it.

13 [Applause.]

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

15 MR. KUHN: Hi, my name is Kevin Kuhn, 

16 last name is spelled K-U-H-N. I'm a member of 

17 the Sierra Club and the Environmental Justice 

18 Alliance of the Southside of Chicago, and truly 

19 grateful that I have an Environmental Protection 

20 Agency that is looking out for my health. Thank 

21 you for organizing this hearing today in Chicago. 

22 Thank you for the important work that you do.
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1 I am personally involved in environmental 

2 activist work in my neighborhood on the Southside 

3 of Chicago, and I'd like to think of you, my EPA, 

4 as my role models, my heroes of hope. I am 

5 encouraged by your environmental activism. High 

6 fives to you.

7 You are now making this historic step by 

8 creating the first ever limits on carbon 

9 pollution from new power plants. Wow. These 

10 welcome new standards will help us to make the 

11 transition to use more renewable energy sources 

12 such as solar and wind power. It is hopeful to 

13 drive through rural Illinois and Indiana and see 

14 the tall white windmills that are using renewable 

15 energy. It is hopeful to drive along 109th 

16 Street in the West Pullman area and near my 

17 Southside neighborhood and see the largest solar 

18 farm in the country in use.

19 These new EPA carbon pollution standards 

20 will help clean up and modernize the way we power 

21 our country. This will spark more innovation in 

22 clean energy technologies that create good 
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1 American jobs.

2 I do not buy some polluters claims that 

3 our EPA safeguards hurt jobs. I do not trust 

4 polluters to police themselves. I count on my 

5 EPA to protect me from dangerous carbon pollution 

6 and the dangerous lies that some would like to 

7 spin about the safety of clean coal. We are 

8 working on that goal together today. This is 

9 very inspiring.

10 For many years I worked as a public nurse 

11 for a local health department here in Illinois. 

12 I worked with people that had immigrated from 

13 countries that do not have a strong public health 

14 system or an enlightened EPA like I do here with 

15 you. 

16 My clients had respiratory illnesses from 

17 serious air pollution in their native country or 

18 pulmonary tuberculosis from lack of an adequate 

19 public health system. 

20 We have this opportunity today to prevent 

21 human suffering here in our USA with these new 

22 carbon standards. We must show the world that we 
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1 are serious about cleaning up our own back yard. 

2 We must stop being a world leader in carbon 

3 pollution. Thank you for leading us out of this 

4 mess.

5 I also worked for many years as a public 

6 school teacher. I taught social studies, and 

7 climate change was discussed in my classroom. It 

8 can be difficult for young people to know what a 

9 person can do about such a complicated problem. 

10 We must give them examples of what they can do. 

11 This is what we are doing here today.

12 I acknowledge the young people that are 

13 speaking today. They see the strong connection 

14 between our U.S. carbon pollution and global 

15 climate change.

16 I also coached cross country and track 

17 for many years. I have seen some scary asthma 

18 attacks. Any person suffering from asthma does 

19 not need the life-threatening air pollutants like 

20 dirty soot, toxic mercury, and the smog that 

21 comes from carbon pollution and, in particular, 

22 coal plants.
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1 And speaking of coal plants, I am 

2 involved in my neighborhood in efforts to prevent 

3 a new coal gasification plant from moving in, 

4 commonly known as Leucadia. My Southside 

5 neighbors and I intend to stop this Leucadia 

6 plant from more coal pollution in our own 

7 community.

8 Now I realize that these new EPA 

9 standards are intended for new power plants only. 

10 Leucadia is not a power plant. Leucadia would 

11 like to use coal to create synthetic natural gas; 

12 however, I am connecting the dots here. 

13 We need to move Beyond Coal in our 

14 country in whatever way coal may be used. We 

15 must stop our use of this cheap form of fossil 

16 fuel. I am hopeful that these new EPA 

17 protections from carbon pollution will have a 

18 ripple effect on our country's use of coal in any 

19 form. I support you in setting the standard and 

20 moving us beyond our heavy dependence on coal. 

21 And just to be clear, I am wearing an I 

22 heart clean air dark blue T-shirt along with many 
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1 others here in this room. We are not the ones 

2 who showed up today because of an ad on 

3 Craigslist with the promise of $50 and a free 

4 lunch. We're here for clean air and our kids.

5 [Laughter.]

6 MR. KUHN: Today is a good example of 

7 working together with my EPA to move beyond our 

8 dependence on coal and beyond just good 

9 intentions. Together we are taking action. 

10 Thank you for these new protections from carbon 

11 pollution. I support you, and I am grateful for 

12 you.

13 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. And I think this 

14 would be a good time to take a -- I think we'll 

15 take a five-minute break right now.

16 [Break from 2:51 p.m. to 3:02 p.m.]

17 MS. NOONAN: And, Mr. Fuller, would you 

18 like to start? Actually both of you sit at the 

19 table. And if you could start by spelling your 

20 name before you speak? 

21 Good. We'll take that, too.

22 Your name and affiliation.
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1 MR. FULLER: My name is Tony Fuller. I’m 

2 with the Sierra Club.

3 MS. NOONAN: F-U-L-L-E-R?

4 MR. FULLER: Oh. Yes. Thank you.

5 Good afternoon. My name is Tony Fuller. 

6 I'm with the Sierra Club and I volunteer and 

7 chair the local Air and Energy Committee with the 

8 Chicago group.

9 And I come today to support the EPA 

10 carbon rule. There are many scientific reasons 

11 to support the rule, but I'm no scientist, so I'm 

12 focusing on my own personal reasons. I'm here 

13 because I believe in science. And science 

14 clearly states, from what I read, that carbon 

15 dioxide causes climate change. And I also think 

16 that science shows that climate change is here, 

17 and further disruption is coming if we do not 

18 start cutting carbon emissions now. We must 

19 start taking action now or not only will we 

20 threaten our own way of life, but threaten the 

21 lives of future generations and the existence of 

22 life in general on the planet.
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1 The carbon rule limits on new power 

2 plants is the first step forward towards taking 

3 responsibility for the carbon problem. And we 

4 also need to take more steps to regulate existing 

5 sources of greenhouse gases. And eventually we 

6 need comprehensive legislation to address climate 

7 problems. But in the absence of a comprehensive 

8 solution this is a good first step.

9 We have to take action now. About a year 

10 before Hurricane Katrina I watched a program on 

11 television that discussed what would happen if a 

12 large storm hurt New -- sorry, hit New Orleans --

13 also hurt New Orleans, too. And in this program 

14 they showed an emergency preparedness drill and 

15 government officials were there kind of going 

16 through what would happen if the storm came 

17 together, and it was clearly that the main plan 

18 was to evacuate. 

19 But at the end of the program they asked, 

20 well, what's going to happen to the people who 

21 can't evacuate. And pretty much there was just 

22 kind of crickets. There was really no plan what 
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1 to do if that happened.

2 And sure enough, not too much later there 

3 was a hurricane and there was evacuation, but the 

4 people who remained didn't have a means to get 

5 out. And we all know what that meant for those 

6 people and the -- how much they suffered.

7 And also, personally, I also have friends 

8 and family that live in Louisiana -- not in New 

9 Orleans but around there. And we've lost touch 

10 with a lot of my extended family because they had 

11 to move, and it was really disruptive and a sad 

12 event in my life.

13 And the reason why I think of this is 

14 because carbon emissions have the potential to 

15 cause not only more storms like Katrina but also 

16 global climate disruption. And if we do not take 

17 action now, future generations will ask why 

18 didn't you do something. Why didn't you protect 

19 us from harm?

20 And I sit here now and speak to you today 

21 because I don't want to be like those people who 

22 did not take action to protect people when they 
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1 knew of the consequences of that action.

2 Our planet is in peril and we must 

3 protect the world not only for us but for future 

4 generations. And I'm going to take a step 

5 further here and state that not only must we 

6 limit carbon dioxide emissions for own benefit 

7 but for the benefit of all life on this planet. 

8 I strongly believe that life on earth here is 

9 precious, that this planet is a home to an 

10 amazing variety of life and ecosystems. And 

11 climate change induced by carbon dioxide 

12 threatens all of these forms of life that depend 

13 the ecosystems that we have here.

14 And, you know, once again, I think, you 

15 know, mass extensions are a threat. So -- and 

16 climate change presents a big -- it could 

17 threaten -- I'm sorry -- threaten life. So, 

18 while climate -- or global warming or climate 

19 change is a challenging problem, we do know the 

20 cause. We know how to address it, and that's by 

21 cutting emissions. We just need the will to take 

22 action.
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1 Today I'm asking you to take this action 

2 because not only will it protect our families, 

3 but we have a moral obligation to protect this 

4 planet. By taking action now we'll start on a 

5 path towards a healthy clean energy future that 

6 we can be proud of for future generations. And 

7 we will have fulfilled our duty to protect earth.

8 Thank you.

9 MS. NOONAN: If you could start by 

10 spelling your name?

11 MS. LI: Yes, sure.

12 MS. NOONAN: Actually, if you could stay.

13 MR. FULLER: Okay.

14 MS. LI: My name's Angela Li, L-I. I'm a 

15 second-year student at the University of Chicago, 

16 and I'm a member of our school's Climate Action 

17 Network. I joined the Climate Action Network 

18 because I have a stake in the future of the 

19 environment. It's the climate that my peers and 

20 I will be living in as adults and the climate in 

21 which we'll be raising our children.

22 I'm also strongly opposed to polluters 
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1 because my mom loves spending time outdoors, and 

2 I don't think her health should be harmed by air 

3 pollution. So it's for these same reasons that 

4 I'm a strong supporter of the EPA's new carbon 

5 regulations. I don't think that polluters should 

6 be able to create carbon output freely. And I 

7 think the decisions we make today to cap carbon 

8 are going to have a huge impact on future 

9 decades.

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much.

11 Bob Bingaman and Stacey Salman, please.

12 MR. BINGAMAN: Good afternoon. My name 

13 is Bob Bingaman. That's B-I-N-G-A-M-A-N. I live 

14 in Takoma Park, Maryland; and I'm here today 

15 representing the Sierra Club. I'm the National 

16 Organizing Director and work out of the 

17 Washington, D.C. office of the Sierra Club.

18 And I want to speak today on why the 

19 Sierra Club and our 1.2 million members and 

20 supporters support the Environmental Protection 

21 Agency's first ever carbon pollution standard for 

22 new power plants and how this is going to benefit 
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1 the American people.

2 I want to start, however, by saying the 

3 reason that I work for the Sierra Club and the 

4 reason I am in this room today is because of a 

5 nine-year-old boy named Timothy. Timothy happens 

6 to be my son. And 18 years ago when I was 

7 offered this job, myself and my partner did what 

8 many couples do when confronted with a career 

9 choice. I was in a job I loved, and I had a 

10 tough choice to make when I got offered this job.

11 So we put together a list of pluses and 

12 deltas for taking this job. And we spent about 

13 24 hours having numerous conversations. And at 

14 one point we were taking the family in the car 

15 somewhere around Washington, D.C., and my partner 

16 and I were having this back and forth, and out of 

17 the back seat comes a little voice, nine-year-old 

18 Timothy, said, "Okay, Dad. Stop." He said, 

19 "What's the Sierra Club?" So I had to explain to 

20 him the best I knew as a member of the Sierra 

21 Club what the Sierra Club does. And he said, 

22 "What do they want you to do?" So, again, what I 
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1 knew about the job I explained to him.

2 And I was driving the car, and I looked 

3 in the rearview mirror, and I could see little 

4 nine-year-old gears turning in Timothy's head. 

5 It was dead silent in the back. And I said, 

6 "Timothy, what are you thinking?

7 And he said, "Dad, you have no choice. 

8 You have to take this job. I want to raise my 

9 kids on a healthy planet."

10 [Laughter.]

11 That conversation -- the decision was 

12 made at that very moment. There was no more 

13 discussion, and even on the roughest days I pull 

14 inspiration from my then-nine-year-old son. And 

15 I'm so moved by the stories we've heard today

16 about how this issue, it's not academic. Well, 

17 it is academic. It is science, but it's very 

18 real in the lives of people like Timothy and the 

19 other young people in this room who want an 

20 opportunity to grow up on a healthy planet. So I 

21 am here to give voice to Timothy, the young 

22 people, and our members and supporters.
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1 The science and the data on climate 

2 change is conclusive. Scientists tell us that 

3 climate change is real. It's happening, and it 

4 presents some very real threats to our health and 

5 societal well being.

6 Fueled by carbon pollution, doctors and 

7 nurses tell us that as temperatures rise so will 

8 the instances of smog-induced asthma and 

9 respiratory illness. As part of my job in the 

10 Sierra Club, I travel all across this country 

11 meeting with community organizations and 

12 community organizers. 

13 I see firsthand the detrimental health 

14 affects that carbon pollution and other dangerous 

15 pollutants from coal-fired power plants, in 

16 particular, pose to communities. And I really 

17 want to note that these impacts are particularly 

18 profound on communities of people of color and 

19 low income communities. If you're Mitt Romney, 

20 you're probably okay.

21 [Laughter.]

22 MR. BINGAMAN: Tens of thousands of 
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1 people from Maine to Nevada, to right here in 

2 Illinois, suffer in a very real way, and 

3 sometimes fatal way, the consequences of power 

4 plants, not bearing responsibility for the 

5 pollution they spew out. And this rule will 

6 begin to hold those polluters accountable.

7 This not only devastates family, but it 

8 also increases the burden on an already strapped 

9 health service program. Additionally, a warmer 

10 world will mean more extreme weather causing 

11 damage via wild fires to our homes and national 

12 lands, reduced crop yields, and water shortages. 

13 An increase in insect pests and prevalence of 

14 insect-spread diseases, intensified precipitation 

15 events such as hurricanes, storm surging, and 

16 flooding. This will cost us our lives and our 

17 livelihoods if we do not take action. 

18 Thankfully, the EPA is taking action, and we are 

19 profoundly appreciative.

20 In closing, again, on behalf of the 1.2 

21 members [sic] of the Sierra Club, on behalf of 

22 Timothy, I want to thank the EPA for their 
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1 efforts. And once again, restate our strong 

2 support for this rule that we hope the EPA will 

3 move forward and finalize by the end of the year. 

4 Let's do it for the communities we've heard 

5 about today. Let's do it for the people we've 

6 heard about today. Let's do it for Timothy. 

7 Thank you very much.

8 MS. NOONAN: Ms. Salman?

9 MS. SALMAN: Yes. Excuse me. My name is 

10 Stacey Salman. And thank you for the opportunity 

11 to submit a statement regarding the proposed 

12 carbon standard ruling.

13 MS. NOONAN: And spell your name.

14 MS. SALMAN: S-T-A-C-E-Y, and then S-A-L15 M-A-N.

16 I applaud your efforts to take the steps 

17 needed to control carbon emissions and to apply 

18 the intentions of the Clean Air Act. I'm here 

19 today to speak as a parent, as a mom of three 

20 young children.

21 I actually testified several years ago in 

22 regards to the EPA's big polluter rule. And at 
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1 that time I was motivated to testify because my 

2 oldest daughter was in third grade, and she was 

3 learning about climate change in school And as 

4 you would expect, she was asking me a lot of 

5 questions, hard questions, questions about things 

6 that were frightening her. And as a parent I 

7 answered her questions with optimism about all 

8 the smart, intelligent people working hard to 

9 find answers.

10 My children are, for the most part, 

11 satisfied by this answer; but the reality is we 

12 have failed to yet develop strategic, 

13 comprehensive federal policy to reduce carbon 

14 emissions and to move away from our dependence on 

15 fossil fuels. So I am still answering my 

16 children's questions, and they are still 

17 rightfully concerned about the planet they will 

18 inherit, but they remain optimistic.

19 My children remain optimistic because 

20 they believe in a future that is not dependent on 

21 dirty, polluting sources of fuel. They believe 

22 they will live in a community that is powered by 
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1 efficient, clean renewable energy. They not only 

2 believe in this clean energy future, but they are 

3 counting on it. They are counting on using smart 

4 energy, smart meters, smart meters, smart 

5 appliances, smart cars, smart grids all being 

6 powered by clean renewable, preferably local 

7 energy sources. They believe in this future 

8 because we tell them it's possible.

9 So, to me, that is what this ruling is 

10 about. It's about our necessary transition to 

11 clean energy future. And the standard that you 

12 are proposing is a bold step in the direction 

13 toward that clean energy future.

14 So we know there's a pushback from the 

15 fossil fuel industry, and they will present 

16 compelling evidence claiming that we need to 

17 continue our heavy dependence on coal far into 

18 the future, but what I see and what I think they 

19 are saying is they reject our vision for a clean 

20 energy future. They reject developing a clean 

21 energy economy, but the research has shown that 

22 there is strong public support for advancing 
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1 clean energy; and we do not need to wait any 

2 longer.

3 This ruling is not a death to the coal 

4 industry as they want to claim. It's flexible, 

5 and it's lined with industry standards and 

6 trends. Changing an industry is a monumental 

7 challenge, but we have so many emerging, 

8 ambitious, exciting innovative technologies and 

9 strategies. And the strategies can produce can 

10 produce our energy cleaner, manage it more 

11 effectively, and use it more efficiently.

12 We know that policies that support energy 

13 efficiency and renewable energy -- these are 

14 policies that also create jobs; they stimulate 

15 the economy; and they reduce our overall energy 

16 demands.

17 So we should enforce the Clean Air Act 

18 with carbon standards, but we should partner this 

19 with a national energy efficiency standard and 

20 include a federal renewable energy standard. So 

21 if we developed demand-side strategies that are 

22 capable of producing real energy savings, we have 
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1 seen that these savings displace the need to 

2 generate additional power from supply-side 

3 resources. So let's focus on advanced strategies 

4 and tools and not just building more and more 

5 coal plants to meet the demands of a poorly 

6 managed electrical load.

7 So I hope I am not as naïve as my 

8 children, but I do believe in our ability to rise 

9 to this challenge. And the challenge is 

10 transitioning to a clean energy future. And we 

11 now need to make hard decisions that are required 

12 to realize the future that our children are 

13 expecting. 

14 So, thank you, and I appreciate your 

15 leadership in taking the necessary steps to 

16 achieve that future.

17 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

18 Next we have Caroline Wooton and Sylvia 

19 Glauster. And just on deck we'll have Julian 

20 Borjas and Jerry Mead-Lucero.

21 MS. GLAUSTER: Hi, good afternoon. My 

22 name is Sylvia Glauster, S-Y-L-V-I-A, G-L-A-U-S-
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1 T-E-R. And I teach middle school here in 

2 Chicago. 

3 As a teacher it's always hard for me to 

4 make these sorts of hearings which are usually 

5 during the school day, so I rarely come to them; 

6 but issues of energy, pollution, and climate are 

7 central issues of our generation, and as such are 

8 never far from the classroom.

9 When I teach data analysis, scientific 

10 thought, or social responsibility we take the 

11 time to delve deeply into the issues students 

12 raise. Let me tell you it's pretty terrifying to 

13 look at those naïve faces and encourage them to 

14 really examine our systems of energy production 

15 and their consequences for the first time, so I 

16 couldn't leave it in the classroom today.

17 Who cares about air pollution I asked 

18 them. Well, who here has asthma? Several 

19 children in every class I've ever taught raise 

20 their hands and others not. They see how this is 

21 serious business.

22 Did you know that toxic chemicals 
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1 released by power plants can cause cancer? At 

2 this point they're quite upset. And what's more, 

3 the carbon dioxide released by burning fossil 

4 fuels is causing our entire climate and weather 

5 patterns to change in ways we are still 

6 struggling to understand.

7 Motivated to continue researching on 

8 their own, various students have come back to the 

9 class to inform us of their findings that the 

10 emissions from power plants disproportionately 

11 affect low income and minority communities, that 

12 studies link asthma to energy-related emissions, 

13 and that right here in Chicago 41 people die each 

14 year as a result of the dirty power plants we 

15 have fought so hard to close.

16 Debating in a mock summit, students argue 

17 passionately about the need for reduced carbon 

18 emissions to stabilize our climate and protect 

19 reliable food and water supplies.

20 Of course, outraged as they are, these 

21 kids want to fix the problems right away. We 

22 have solar panels. We have windmills. We have 
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1 teams of engineers ready to take on green jobs 

2 like installing new energy systems and designing 

3 better ones. 

4 People are dying here. It's not just the 

5 people with lung diseases and asthma attacks, 

6 people unfortunate enough to live under a plant's 

7 smokestacks. People are dying in escalating 

8 storms, starving in the face of crop failures 

9 brought about by drought, and fighting in 

10 conflicts over increasingly scarce resources. To 

11 these students it's clear that the whole world is 

12 at stake. "So why hasn't anyone done anything," 

13 they demand.

14 Too young to be either cynical or 

15 practical, no excuse is acceptable to them. And 

16 they're right. Our current regulations are not 

17 acceptable. Why haven't we taken action at the 

18 national level? We have known that carbon 

19 dioxide from fossil fuels causes dangerous 

20 changes in our atmosphere since before I was born 

21 30 years ago. We have known that the toxic 

22 chemicals in our fuel become the toxic chemicals 
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1 in the air we breathe, in the rain that falls, 

2 and the food we eat. And yet we are not pushing 

3 the electrical industry to do better? We have no 

4 national limits on the carbon pollution that is 

5 high-jacking our future security?

6 People talk about our children's 

7 children, but while those people have been 

8 talking, their children grew up. And those 

9 hypothetical future generations are not real 

10 people with tough questions.

11 And so I step forward and I stand among 

12 my students, and I say to them, "I don't know. I 

13 don't know why we haven't done anything yet. I'm 

14 frustrated, too. I've been waiting my whole 

15 life, but now I'm an adult. And you know what? 

16 Now is on us. It's time for us to lead."

17 This regulation is an opportunity for us 

18 to do something. It's an opportunity to lead in 

19 the direction of clean energy and away from 

20 deadly complacency. Though this regulation is 

21 not as strict as I would like -- and I believe we 

22 should act much more aggressively -- the move to 
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1 regulate carbon pollution is a critical first 

2 step. That's why I'm here today and not in my 

3 classroom. It's an opportunity for me to return 

4 to my students and say, "Guess what. We are 

5 doing something about this problem. Our 

6 government really is working to save lives and 

7 keep businesses under control."

8 Remember those dirty plants that closed 

9 down? Well, the new electricity is going to have 

10 to be cleaner. Am I going to be able to say 

11 that? Are these regulations going to get through 

12 with their current standards or even stricter 

13 regulations that include existing power plants?

14 Are other teachers, and parents, and 

15 elected officials going to be able to go home and 

16 say, "We're taking important steps. We're 

17 changing the way we do things. We're reducing 

18 pollution, and we're moving forward." I hope so. 

19 It's on us.

20 MS. NOONAN: Ms. Wooten?

21 MS. WOOTEN: Hi, my name is Caroline 

22 Wooten. I am a fourth-year student at the 
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1 University of Chicago. I'm a member of the 

2 UChicago Climate Action Network and a larger 

3 citywide student network called the Chicago Youth 

4 Climate Coalition.

5 I am here to express my strong support 

6 for the EPA in proposing these standards, and I 

7 feel so strongly about it I wrote a song and I 

8 brought my guitar up here. The song I wrote is 

9 based on this JFK Petition where he says, "We 

10 have the power to be the greatest generation in 

11 the history of mankind or to be the last." And I 

12 feel like that quotation is scarily true today.

13 And, you know, usually I write songs 

14 about pretty personal things. I write about 

15 breakups. I write about how much I love my 

16 mother.

17 [Laughter.]

18 MS. WOOTEN: And so climate change might 

19 seem kind outside that realm, but it's not. Right 

20 now short-term corporate profits are being put 

21 before my future and the future of my friends. 

22 And I am really mad about that, and that's 
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1 personal. And that's so personal that I'm going 

2 to write a song, and I'm mad enough that I am 

3 going to sing it here at the EPA hearing.

4 [Laughter.]

5 MS. WOOTEN: And just to warn you guys, 

6 I'm an amateur in the worst sense of the term, so 

7 I just ask that you humor me, and you're welcome 

8 to sing along.

9 MS. NOONAN: And please pull the mike 

10 close so we can hear you.

11 MS. WOOTEN: Okay. It might be a little 

12 painful.

13 [Guitar playing.]

14 MS. WOOTEN: I'm sorry. I'm going to 

15 tune.

16 [Guitar playing.]

17 MS. WOOTEN: Good enough for government 

18 work.

19 [Laughter.]

20 [Guitar playing.]

21 MS. WOOTEN: [Singing.} We have the 

22 power to make this the greatest generation, or we 
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1 have the power to make this generation the last. 

2 So if we wanna survive, gonna have to struggle 

3 and strive, and we're gonna have to fight the 

4 powers of the past.

5 I'm talkin' 'bout carbon. I'm talkin' 

6 'bout fossil fuels. I'm talkin' 'bout CEOs who 

7 manipulate the rules. I'm talkin' 'bout money 

8 could be for the good of us all. These are the 

9 powers that will lead us to our (unintelligible).

10 'Cause we have the power to make this the 

11 greatest generation, or we have the power to make 

12 this generation the last. So if we wanna 

13 survive, gonna have to struggle and strive, and 

14 we're gonna have to fight the powers of the past.

15 'Cause the waters are rising, and the 

16 forests are burning down, and the twisters are 

17 taking the whole damn town. So we know how to 

18 stop this, but the question is if we will. We 

19 gotta get a move on. We got no time to kill. 

20 We have the power to make this the 

21 greatest generation, or we have the power to make 

22 this generation the last. So if we wanna 
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1 survive, gonna have to struggle and strive, and 

2 we're gonna have to fight the powers of the past.

3 There's a future awaiting. There's a 

4 future that we can make. We have the power of 

5 people with a vision to be the nation of the 

6 world who builds on wisdom, hope, and love,

7 another world builds on the justice from above.

8 'Cause we have the power to make this the 

9 greatest generation, or we have the power to make 

10 this generation the last. So if we wanna 

11 survive, gonna have to struggle and strive, and 

12 we're gonna have to fight the powers of the past.

13 [Applause.]

14 MS. NOONAN: Ms. Wooten, would you like 

15 to put that on a record?

16 MS. WOOTEN: That's fine.

17 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Coming up next Julian 

18 -- how to your say your last name?

19 MR. BORJAS: Borjas.

20 MS. NOONAN: Borjas. And Jerry --

21 MR. MEAD-LUCERO: Mead-Lucero.

22 MS. NOONAN: One more time.
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1 MR. MEAD-LUCERO: Mead-Lucero. Mead like 

2 the paper. No relation.

3 MR. BORJAS: It's J-U-L-I-A-N, B-O-R-J-A4 S. And I'm here representing the Chicago Clean 

5 Power Coalition and asking the EPA to support the 

6 national carbon emissions standard; but I'm not 

7 doing this for the 3.1 million jobs according to 

8 the U.S. Department of Labor Jobs and Innovative 

9 Forms of Power Generation Will Bring even though 

10 we desperately need them here in Chicago as well 

11 as in the nation.

12 And instead of urging the EPA to achieve 

13 its mandate, to achieve the EPA's original duty 

14 with no obligation to promote either culture or 

15 our commerce, only the critical obligation to 

16 protect and enhance the environment.

17 So I urge you to pass CO2 regulations and 

18 thereby promote life in all of its shapes and 

19 forms, bringing the U.S., our home, our country, 

20 the world's largest per capita polluter into the 

21 global effort to mitigate the most catastrophic 

22 and deadly affects of global air pollution and 
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1 climate change.

2 I urge the EPA to promote liberty with 

3 this agency started by a Republican 

4 administration to overlook partisan politics and 

5 the sole pursuit of profits, and instead, focus 

6 solely on the EPA's duty to research health and 

7 the environment. And I urge the EPA to foster 

8 the pursuit of happiness from the joy that comes 

9 from a challenge as we face a very real and great 

10 threat of extinction, to foster the joy and the 

11 exhilaration of not turning down the same old 

12 road, and not the tired beaten path, but forging 

13 a new path, imagining new ways forward, and 

14 embracing scientific know-how, and riding the 

15 coming tidal wave of green clean power.

16 I ask the EPA to let our lungs breathe 

17 clean air and our eyes enjoy bright blue skies, 

18 to challenge our minds, to face the very real and 

19 existential threat not only to ourselves but to 

20 those the world over, to humans, and to animals, 

21 and to countless future generations.

22 These regulations will stop dirty, old, 
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1 destructive, and outdated ways of the past and 

2 encourage new thinking, innovation, and that 

3 distinctly human trait of entrepreneurship.

4 I urge the EPA to pass this legislation 

5 as an idealist having worked with community 

6 groups, the Chicago Clean Power Coalition, 

7 Chicago's Mayor Rahm Emanuel, and closing down 

8 the Fisk and Crawford Power Plants. These two 

9 coal-fired power plants were actually within the 

10 very city limits. Having closed them means 

11 Chicago halted 40 premature deaths per year, 

12 2,800 asthma attacks per year, 500 unnecessary 

13 emotional, unwanted, unneeded emergency room 

14 visits per year.

15 So please help to solidify our victory, a 

16 victory of the power of the people, not coal 

17 power but community power. Please help us 

18 breathe a sigh of relief here in the Windy City 

19 and help us to fight to protect -- to keep 

20 fighting to protect the planet, our city, our 

21 environment, and with your help, the country free 

22 of air pollution.
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1 I urge you to pass these standards and 

2 limit the emission of CO2 and help save our 

3 planet. Thank you very much.

4 MR. MEAD-LUCERO: My name is Jerry Mead5 Lucero with PERRO, a environmental justice 

6 organization in Pilsen, and now I'm know I’m 

7 being punished for missing my original appointed 

8 time in the morning by having to follow Caroline. 

9 I don't think I'm going to get quite as many 

10 applause as Caroline got. Unfortunately, it is a 

11 little hard act to follow, but anyway -- so, as I 

12 said, I'm with PERRO, Pilsen Environmental Rights 

13 and Reform Organization, an environmental justice 

14 group in the Pilsen neighborhood, which is a low15 income working class -- a Mexican immigrant 

16 neighborhood here in Chicago on the southwest 

17 side.

18 And as you heard earlier from Julian, 

19 we've had a victory recently in both Pilsen and 

20 Little Village, both Mexican immigrant 

21 neighborhoods here in Chicago, working class 

22 neighborhoods that finally were able to get rid 
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1 of a long neighborhood nightmare of a coal-fired 

2 power plant in our neighborhood. So that was a 

3 great victory for us, a long, hard-fought 

4 victory. We were working on that campaign for 10 

5 years, most -- many of us. And so we're really 

6 glad to have that finally gone.

7 But looking at this from more of a 

8 national perspective, we realize there's a lot of 

9 other communities that are still suffering the 

10 same fate that we suffered for so long here in 

11 Chicago. And so we don't want to see that 

12 continue.

13 I don't know if these are the most recent 

14 statistics. They're probably a few years old 

15 now, but last time I checked at least 39 percent 

16 of Latinos nationally live within 30 miles of a 

17 coal-fired power plant, and 71 percent lived 

18 within air counties that the U.S. EPA determined 

19 were -- there was -- one of the air pollutants 

20 was over the limit that it should be. So this is 

21 something affecting communities like ours across 

22 the country, environmental justice communities 
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1 across the country. And we definitely want to 

2 see this corrected.

3 Now I realize that this rule is targeting 

4 new plants. It's not targeting existing plants. 

5 That's, I guess, the one thing I, you know, would 

6 love to see it actually go after the existing 

7 plants as well, you know, like Fisk and Crawford.

8 In fact, one of my concerns is that by 

9 going after just the new plants, that it will 

10 actually encourage companies to keep plants like 

11 Fisk and Crawford running longer than they 

12 should. That would be the one down side to this 

13 regulation; but I definitely am in support of the 

14 regulation even if it is just applying to new 

15 plants for a lot of reasons (unintelligible) 

16 state which is -- even though what we were -- you 

17 know, when we heard about the 41 deaths every 

18 year, and the hundreds of emergency room visits, 

19 and thousands of asthma attacks, that was coming 

20 from particulate pollution, which, of course, is 

21 not directly targeted in this case, but certainly 

22 ozone, which is one of the outcomes of the carbon 
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1 pollution as well, is also a problem for people 

2 that have respiratory illnesses.

3 Again, within the Latino communities in 

4 the United States, there's already a high rate of 

5 asthma and already a high rate of complications 

6 due to asthma. That's a mixture of factors. You 

7 know, when we talk about EG [phonetic], we're 

8 always talking about these various kinds of 

9 socio-economic factors coming together. And so 

10 you have people that don't have good access to 

11 health care to begin with, and they have asthma, 

12 and then they live in communities where their 

13 asthmas is aggravated by these pollution sources, 

14 and then they end up in a severe complication 

15 because of their asthma.

16 So, from a health perspective, that 

17 immediate health perspective of the ozone impact 

18 that we see in our communities, that is one of 

19 the reasons why I'm very much in favor and 

20 support of this.

21 But also, when you talk of the issue of 

22 climate change is more a global issue, that also 
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1 is a direct impact in our communities as well. 

2 We've seen here in Chicago already one of the 

3 things that we're going to see more and more 

4 often now with the effects of climate change is 

5 these increased heat waves that we've been having 

6 in the summer.

7 You know, they've already changed the 

8 zone designation for Chicago just recently 

9 because it's warmed up so much that we're 

10 actually in a slightly different climatic zone 

11 than we were previously. And they're definitely 

12 expecting that these heat waves this summer will 

13 become more and more common. And the last bunch 

14 of these we've had, we've seen high numbers of 

15 deaths during those heat waves, again, primarily 

16 in low income communities where people don't have 

17 access to cooling the way that people in more 

18 affluent communities do. 

19 Again, even in Pilsen I can tell you the 

20 vast majority of my neighbors, you know, don't 

21 have air conditioning, and so they -- you know, 

22 one of the problems we always see is they open 
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1 their windows for cooling in the summer. And 

2 that just lets in the -- of course, the pollution 

3 in the air in there, too, which is unfortunate. 

4 But, of course, with these heat waves, that's 

5 going to become more and more of a problem as 

6 well.

7 I also am kind of speaking here on behalf 

8 of my wife. My wife was going to come and 

9 testify today as well, but unfortunately because 

10 of work she wasn't able to. And she's the 

11 President of the Durango Unido, which is an

12 association of people from Durango state in 

13 Mexico, and also the President of Confo-Mex 

14 [phonetic], which is the federation of all the 

15 different federations and hometown associations 

16 from different states of Mexico here in Chicago.

17 And one of the things that we've been 

18 talking about -- well, both her and I have been 

19 going out to groups and talking about it the 

20 affect climate change has on migration as well 

21 and has, not only here in the United States but 

22 in Latin America. Those are a few examples, and 
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1 I wish she was here to give more of the 

2 statistics, but Durango, Mexico, where she comes 

3 from herself, has been in a severe drought much 

4 like the drought that we know about in Texas for 

5 the last several years.

6 Now, the officials in Mexico are already 

7 saying this is an outcome of climate change. Of 

8 course, you get into these, you know -- the 

9 science gets difficult when you're trying to take 

10 one particular event and draw it to climate 

11 change; but the reality is that droughts like the 

12 one that's going on right now will become more 

13 common.

14 And the drought that's going on right now 

15 already has wiped out drinking water supplies by, 

16 I think, something like 2.5 million people. It's 

17 devastated agriculture in that region. Eighty 

18 percent of the agriculture in Durango State 

19 itself has been completely wiped out in the last 

20 couple years of drought. It's just -- there are 

21 literally people now living just on food rations 

22 provided by the government in states of northern 
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1 Mexico because of this drought.

2 We're going to see -- are we getting 

3 short on time? We're going to see the same 

4 thing. A lot of friends of mine have came to the 

5 U.S. originally because of fleeing Hurricane 

6 Mitch in Central America. We're going to see an 

7 increase in those type of events as well.

8 And there's already like 25 million that 

9 the U.N. has declared as climate refugees 

10 currently in the world. That could get up to 200 

11 million by 2050 if under the current projections. 

12 So -- I know I'm out of time, but just a little 

13 piece of why we wanted to see this passed.

14 MS. NOONAN: And we would be happy to 

15 have written comments for the record.

16 MR. MEAD-LUCERO: We'll do that. My 

17 apologies. Thank you.

18 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

19 Okay. Up next we have Cheryl Hogan and 

20 Michael Zurato -- Zurako. Sorry.

21 Do you want to start?

22 MS. HOGAN: Hello, my name is Cheryl 
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1 Hogan, H-O-G-A-N. And I am only -- I don't have 

2 much to say other than to say that I'm so glad 

3 I'm here today. This has been just such a 

4 wonderful education for me. I've always been 

5 concerned about the environment.

6 For years I flew over to China, and 

7 Beijing, particularly, and experienced the

8 environment there in the air when I'd look out of 

9 my hotel room. I was always so thankful to get 

10 back to the United States, which we have, 

11 thankfully, our air. We don't have to wear 

12 masks, but, you know, we're approaching the part 

13 where our environment is becoming also not good 

14 anymore as we all know. And I think that we have 

15 to become more and more aware of what we can do 

16 to protect our environment.

17 I'm just kind of amazed that we don't 

18 have national standards. Every -- there's been 

19 people here from Michigan, Wisconsin, and New 

20 Jersey -- you know, you name it. And we all want 

21 the same thing, and we don't have a national 

22 standard. So we can have Indiana that just this 
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1 morning in the Tribune, you know, they're finally 

2 going to clean up BP, but they can do what they 

3 want in Indiana, and we suffer the consequences 

4 of it.

5 So, unless we have states that are all 

6 working together here in our United States, we're 

7 all going to be working at crosshairs with each 

8 other. We're not going to be on the same -- you

9 know, somebody's going to -- somebody else and 

10 (unintelligible) being able to pollute over there 

11 because they don't care. They'll get a get a tax 

12 benefit or something like that.

13 Anyway, I just want to say thank you very 

14 much for being here. I certainly hope that these 

15 -- the national standards go through. I think we 

16 need this desperately here in our country. And 

17 thank you very much.

18 MR. ZURAKOB: Hello, I'm Michael Zurakob, 

19 Z-U-R-A-K-O-B. I'll be very brief today. I 

20 didn't bring a prepared text.

21 I want to commend the EPA for putting 

22 forth the standards for limiting -- an initial 
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1 limitation at least -- but with reservation. I 

2 think from my brief study of the proposed 

3 standard that it seems there are quite a few 

4 exceptions, even going forward with new power 

5 plants. And, of course, there's the enormous 

6 issue of the existing power plants that are 

7 putting out greenhouse gases today in huge 

8 quantities.

9 I commend the EPA for taking this first 

10 step. I certainly hope that the CO2 standards go 

11 through at least as strong as they've been 

12 proposed, and I would very much like to think 

13 this is a first step and we will soon see some 

14 standards related to existing power plants.

15 We're long past the time where we have 

16 the luxury of pretending we don't know that 

17 putting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere in 

18 enormous quantities has no effect. 

19 I work up north in an area that was once 

20 literally a sea of forest, up in northern 

21 Wisconsin near Duluth, working on a project 

22 trying to save the remains of a forest full of
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1 trees that was built into a grain elevator in 

2 1887. And I'm reminded every day that when the 

3 first Europeans came there and looked around, 

4 they couldn't be faulted for thinking that this 

5 forest wasn't endless because from a human scale 

6 it was endless.

7 Years later we learned that cutting down 

8 those forests, in fact, has an impact, and we've 

9 impacted our planet by cutting down one forest 

10 after another. Now it's our turn to acknowledge 

11 that dumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere 

12 has an effect. For 300 years we've burned fossil 

13 fuel believing that we couldn't possibly alter 

14 the climate. Now we know better. We don't have 

15 that luxury.

16 But there are people among us who want so 

17 desperately to believe that the status quo is 

18 okay, that they're ignoring the signs. I'm glad 

19 to see the EPA is not in that group of ignoring 

20 the signs, but it's a fight because there are 

21 very powerful forces who are very, very happy 

22 with the status quo. And we all need to be aware 
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1 of that.

2 So, again, I commend the EPA for the

3 first step. I strongly support limiting 

4 greenhouse gases from stationary sources. I very 

5 much hope that we'll see forthcoming standards 

6 for existing power plants as well so that I won't 

7 have to worry about what future generations are 

8 going to say about us and all the things we 

9 didn't do. Thank you very much.

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

11 Dr. Willard Fry and Robert Jacob, please.

12 DR. FRY: I'm Dr. Willard Fry. I'm a 

13 professor of clinical surgery emeritus at 

14 Northwestern University Feinberg School of 

15 Medicine and a thoracic surgeon or a chest cutter 

16 for those of you who are M.A.S.H. fans.

17 [Laughter.]

18 DR. FRY: Today I am speaking on behalf 

19 of the American Thoracic Society of which I am a 

20 member. The ATS is a medical professional 

21 organization of over 15,000 physicians, 

22 scientists, nurses, and allied health 
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1 professionals dedicated to the detection, 

2 prevention, treatment, and cure of respiratory 

3 critical care and sleep-related illness.

4 The American Thoracic Society wishes to 

5 express our strong support for the EPA's proposed 

6 carbon emission standards for power plants. 

7 The research documenting the reality of 

8 climate change is comprehensive and compelling. 

9 Evidence supporting human activity as a 

10 contributing factor to climate change is equally 

11 clear. As a clinician, I have seen some of the 

12 health effects of global climate change right 

13 here in Chicago. The earlier arrival of spring 

14 is impacting the health and well-being of allergy 

15 sufferers. The higher summer temperatures and 

16 the accompanying Code Orange and Code Red air 

17 pollution days is adversely affecting patients 

18 with asthma, COPD, and other respiratory 

19 conditions. While my observations are anecdotal, 

20 they fit the pattern of predicted adverse health 

21 impacts associated with climate change.

22 Now let's not forget the heat wave of 
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1 1995 that led to approximately 750 heat-related 

2 deaths over a five-day period. The frequency and 

3 intensity of Chicago heat waves is expected to 

4 get worse in the near future.

5 According to Dr. Peng and colleagues at 

6 Johns Hopkins University, Chicago will experience 

7 166 to 2,127 excess deaths per year as a result 

8 of heat waves.

9 The ATS recently published in the 

10 proceedings of the American Thoracic Society a 

11 workshop report respiratory health effects of 

12 global climate change. I will leave a copy of 

13 that report with the panel. The workshop report 

14 explores the respiratory health effects of global 

15 climate change which include changing pollen 

16 releases impacting asthma and allergic rhinitis, 

17 heat waves causing critical care related 

18 illnesses, climate driven air pollution increases 

19 exacerbating asthma and COPD, desertification 

20 increasing particulate matter exposures, and 

21 Chicago is already known for having a significant 

22 excess of particulate matter in the air. And 
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1 climate change related changes in food, water, 

2 and security impacting infectious respiratory 

3 diseases through malnutrition.

4 Because of the strength of the existing 

5 data from multiple scientific disciplines, trends 

6 and weather patterns, sea temperatures and ice 

7 measurements around the globe, and the breadth 

8 and severity of likely climate force human health 

9 issues, the ATS strongly urges the EPA to move 

10 forward with the proposed carbon emissions 

11 standard for power plants.

12 Furthermore, the ATS encourages the EPA 

13 to move forward with issuing greenhouse gas 

14 emission standards for other major point sources 

15 of greenhouse gases.

16 I thank you.

17 DR. JACOB: Hello, and thank you for 

18 giving all of us the opportunity to present 

19 testimony on this important new standard.

20 My name is Dr. Robert Jacob. I've lived 

21 in the Logan Square neighborhood of Chicago for 

22 over 12 years. I'm a scientist at Argonne
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1 National Laboratory on the southwest side of 

2 Chicago, but my remarks here are my own and do 

3 not necessarily represent the opinion of my 

4 employer.

5 I'm actually a climate scientist, and my 

6 specialty is those complex computer programs 

7 known as climate models. I'm very familiar with 

8 the details of those models and would like to say 

9 a little bit about them since the conclusions 

10 drawn from those models are partly why we're here 

11 today.

12 We use these programs and the 

13 supercomputers they run on to make theoretical 

14 calculations of how the climatist who responds to 

15 changes such as an increase in the concentration 

16 of carbon dioxide. And you should know that the 

17 science behind these models is extremely well 

18 founded. Some of the equations they solve such 

19 as those for wind and currents have their origins 

20 in the 19th century. They have been verified and 

21 re verified countless times and underlie in most 

22 of the science and technology of our modern 
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1 world.

2 Now using the observed changes in carbon 

3 dioxide and other gases over the 20th century as 

4 input, these models calculated a rise in global 

5 average temperature. And the calculated rise 

6 closely matches the observed rise in global 

7 average temperature we saw in the 20th century. 

8 That is a remarkable scientific achievement given 

9 the complexity of the full climate system.

10 And a straightforward application of 

11 these models to then calculate what would happen 

12 as carbon dioxide levels continues to rise, the 

13 result from these simulations is well known. The 

14 global average temperature will continue to rise 

15 over the long term leading to significant 

16 disruptions in the climate we have known. These 

17 disruptions will be unprecedented in earth's 

18 history because the planet has never before 

19 experienced this large a rise in carbon dioxide 

20 over such a relatively short period of time.

21 One of the largest sources of that carbon 

22 dioxide pollution is electricity generation from 
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1 burning fossil fuels, and coal is one of the 

2 worst fossil fuels. There are currently no 

3 national limits on how much carbon dioxide coal4 fired power plants can dump into the atmosphere. 

5 It costs the power plants nothing to do so.

6 The only way to fix this marked failure 

7 is through national carbon pollution limits. 

8 Carbon dioxide mixes into the global atmosphere 

9 relatively rapidly. So the pollution from power 

10 plants here in the Midwest have and will continue 

11 to affect the climate of the rest of the United 

12 States and the world. And those affects will be 

13 long lasting. 

14 Calculations performed by Professor David 

15 Archer at the University of Chicago have shown 

16 that this excess carbon dioxide could stay in the 

17 atmosphere for a thousand years, and even after 

18 10,000 years as much as 20 percent of the 

19 pollution emitted today will still be in the 

20 atmosphere. This is why there is a need to act 

21 urgently.

22 We have heard others testify about the 
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1 health effects of other forms of carbon pollution 

2 from power plants. These proposed standards will 

3 thus protect the health and well being of 

4 children and families now and help ensure their 

5 future will not be blighted by even more climate 

6 disruption we are already seeing.

7 Taking responsibility for carbon dioxide 

8 pollution on a national level hopefully will 

9 encourage other countries to act. Over time we 

10 must reduce carbon dioxide emissions from 

11 electricity generation to zero. So it will be 

12 important to revisit these rules and gradually 

13 lower the maximum emission rate to further 

14 encourage the transition to clean energy.

15 The exception currently allowed for new 

16 plants that only plan to use carbon capture and 

17 storage should be eliminated. Our climate can't 

18 afford a bunch of new plants emitting above the 

19 proposed limit for even one year, much less 10 

20 years. And we can't trust polluters to fulfill a 

21 promise to use carbon capture and storage 

22 especially since it is an expensive technology.
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1 Finally, these rules should be followed 

2 by a similar set of rules for existing power 

3 plants. No matter how much pollutant has already 

4 been emitted, it is always worthwhile to reduce 

5 and eliminate further future pollution. These 

6 standards on carbon pollution should be put in 

7 immediately and followed by further restrictions.

8 Thank you.

9 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

10 Would Ryan Baker and Karen Roothaan 

11 please come to the table?

12 MS. ROOTHAAN: Hi, my name is Karen 

13 Roothaan, and on Saturday I will be 59 years old. 

14 I had my first vegetable garden when I was 16, so 

15 I've been a gardener for over 40 years.

16 MS. NOONAN: Can you spell your name?

17 MS. ROOTHAN: R-O-O-T-H-A-A-N.

18 And what I brought here today is a plant 

19 I grew myself. It's a tomato plant for those of 

20 you who are gardeners will know that. And I do 

21 this every year, and I start indoors, and then I 

22 go out to a very primitive cold frame in my yard 
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1 that's built out of old storm windows. 

2 And normally around today, which is May 

3 24th, my plant is about this tall and, as many of 

4 you know, you religiously wait until Memorial Day 

5 to set out your tomato plants. Right? But this 

6 year the people in my neighborhood started 

7 putting them out at the beginning of May because 

8 our last frost was April 4th. Right?

9 And if you look closely, you'll see 

10 something you never see on a tomato plant that's 

11 not from a heated greenhouse. You'll see 

12 flowers, small buds. And this guy then is about 

13 a month ahead of schedule.

14 Last year we planted our tomato plants 

15 two weeks ahead of schedule -- not so early, but 

16 our corn farmers could not get in to plant on 

17 time because of wet soil.

18 Every fall for the last two years I 

19 watched flowers appear on trees that normally 

20 bloom in spring, trees such as Magnolia and 

21 crabapple. These seemingly small changes are 

22 only the ones that I have seen in my own 
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1 lifetime, but I know that other more drastic 

2 changes are happening right now as we speak. 

3 Those affected drastically are not here today. 

4 The polar bears that swim for miles looking for 

5 ice, and the farmers in sub Saharan Africa 

6 waiting for rain are not here today, but we have 

7 a moral responsibility to remember them as we 

8 consider the changes we need to make. And these 

9 proposed carbon standards are just a very small 

10 slice of what we need to do.

11 Some of these changes need to be made on 

12 a personal level through better choices in food, 

13 transportation, and shelter. I grow most of my 

14 own vegetables in the summer and have helped to 

15 start two community vegetable gardens. I commute 

16 mostly by bus and bicycle, and I weatherized my 

17 home two years ago. I take one or two vacations 

18 a year by train. I'm sure I could go on for a 

19 long time about my mostly good but definitely not 

20 perfect environmental choices. But I am one of 

21 over 300 million Americans, so my individual 

22 choices mean little unless I encourage others to 
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1 take similar steps.

2 What I do for a living is I teach 

3 mathematics at the community college level. Over 

4 the years I have introduced environmental 

5 considerations into my classes when appropriate. 

6 And what I have learned from my students is that 

7 people are starting to understand that the 

8 choices they make have a global impact. But this 

9 change is very recent as the following will 

10 illustrate.

11 And so I'm thinking back to a very hot 

12 day in 2007 when I arrived late to class, hot, 

13 very out of breath from my bicycle ride, and I 

14 asked my students how much gas they had burned to 

15 get to class, and none of them knew. Now, this 

16 was a teachable moment, and I created what I 

17 thought was a very basic assignment, to look up 

18 their gas mileage on the EPA website and then 

19 calculate their annual CO2 emissions based on that 

20 number. 

21 However, none of those college students 

22 knew that EPA stands for Environmental Protection 
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1 Agency. I'm asking you today to live up to your 

2 name and mission and protect our environment. I'm 

3 asking for the polar bears and the people of the 

4 world who live in floodplains and depend on 

5 subsistence agriculture for their daily bread; 

6 but I am also asking for those of us less at 

7 risk. We need to know what the EPA stands for, 

8 and we need you take a stand.

9 Thank you.

10 MR. BAKER: Hi, my name is Ryan Baker, 

11 and I come here to tell you about why it's 

12 important to me that the proposed rules be 

13 carried forward.

14 Over the last three years I've spent 

15 hundreds of hours working on an important 

16 campaign to improve the health of Chicago. That 

17 campaign was the effort to stop the pollution 

18 from the Fisk and Crawford coal-fired power 

19 plants. Recently those efforts paid off, and by 

20 the end of this year Chicago will be free of 

21 coal-fired power plants.

22 Winning that campaign was not easy, but I 
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1 can tell you without a shadow of doubt that 

2 Chicagoans do not want coal. Throughout that 

3 campaign I talked to thousands of people in 

4 Chicago at bus stops, at various places, and the 

5 biggest obstacle in that campaign was raising 

6 awareness. Once Chicagoans knew the plants were 

7 here, they almost unilaterally agreed that they 

8 should not be.

9 Yet despite this, Chicago is under the 

10 threat of having new coal-fired power plants 

11 being built here. Through back-room deals greedy 

12 energy companies are trying to get huge amounts 

13 of money from Illinois' taxpayers to build new 

14 coal power plants.

15 It should be a foregone conclusion that 

16 we're not interested in destroying our climate in 

17 exchange for writing a big check to a few greedy 

18 energy companies. Yet they hope to find us 

19 asleep at the wheel. And it's only through rules 

20 like this that we'll finally send a message that 

21 no, we're not interested in what they're selling.

22 These rules reflect the values that I 
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1 know are common and are (unintelligible) 

2 reflection of the needs of the needs of today. 

3 They may not reflect the interest of a handful of 

4 companies who own some of the most harmful parts 

5 of our infrastructure, but that's irrelevant. 

6 There are many more companies who, if given an 

7 opportunity, will supply us with clean energy. 

8 All that is necessary is to level the playing 

9 field so that our future is not stolen from us.

10 Thank you.

11 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

12 Next up Alexandra Siporia and Caitlin 

13 Grey.

14 MS. GREY: Sorry. Excuse my frantic 

15 nature. I was just informed I was going to 

16 testify, so since it's slightly unprepared -- my 

17 name is Caitlin Grey, C-A-I-T-L-I-N, last name 

18 Grey, G-R-E-Y.

19 I'm a second year at the University of 

20 Chicago, and I'm part of the UChicago Climate 

21 Activists Network and more largely part of the 

22 Chicago Youth Climate Coalition.
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1 I know that you've heard a lot of young 

2 people today talk about why this is important 

3 because this is our future, and we have to raise 

4 our children in this environment. 

5 And my personal story of that is that I'm 

6 actually from California. I'm from Alameda, 

7 which if you've been to the Bay Area, you'll know 

8 it's an island in the San Francisco Bay. 

9 Basically, it's built out of landfill. And so 

10 Alameda is predicted to be under water by 2050. 

11 This is where I've grown up since I was five 

12 years old. This is where all my family and 

13 friends are. A lot of people think I just care 

14 about the environment because I'm from California 

15 and kind of stereotype that, but actually, this 

16 is a very real situation for me, and I might want 

17 to raise my children there, and I might not be 

18 able to do that.

19 I really love this quote, and it goes --

20 I'm probably going to butcher it, but it goes 

21 something like that: We borrow the planet from 

22 the next generation. And basically I just feel 
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1 that we can't do something that will abuse what 

2 we have coming. So it's very ironically 

3 unsustainable.

4 So, that's all I have to say. Thank you.

5 MS. SIPORIA: Hello, I'm Alexandra 

6 Siporia, and I'm here for two reasons. I'm very 

7 concerned about the global warming and the impact 

8 the heat will have on the elderly. I have 

9 elderly parents, and my best friend is also 

10 elderly. And every summer when there's a heat 

11 wave, they die.

12 And the increased heat is also wreaking 

13 havoc on the climate of my home state of Texas.

14 They had such a severe drought last summer that 

15 they had multiple fires, like wild fires, and I 

16 actually know people who lost property.

17 And I'm also here because I don't want 

18 more coal plants being rebuilt because I've been 

19 getting mercury poisoning repeatedly, and I think 

20 that the coal-fired power plants are partially 

21 responsible and added a huge impact on my life.

22 I had to go on a leave of absence, and I 
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1 got a failing grade when I'm usually an A 

2 student.

3 So, if you would just keep those facts in 

4 mind when you go to limit the pollution, I would 

5 appreciate it.

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

7 We have short gap here. And if anyone 

8 who has not registered to speak or has decided 

9 they would like to speak extemporaneously, we 

10 would welcome that opportunity. If you want to 

11 come to the table just -- as with everyone else,

12 just say your name and affiliation, and spell 

13 your name would be helpful.

14 MR. MARTINEZ: Anthony Martinez.

15 MS. NOONAN: Wait. Once you get started.

16 MR. MARTINEZ: Anthony Martinez, with the 

17 Beyond Coal Campaign.

18 MS. NOONAN: Okay. And can you spell 

19 Martinez, please?

20 MR. MARTINEZ: M-A-R-T-I-N-E-Z.

21 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

22 MR. MARTINEZ: And I'm from the southeast 
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1 side of Chicago. The highest -- it has the 

2 highest rate of asthma. Many people I know in 

3 the area also have cancer. I also have five 

4 members that have cancer. Three of them already 

5 passed away.

6 And there are so many coal plants in that 

7 area. The coal dust lands on houses, cars, 

8 streets, flying in the air. And the people that 

9 breathe. And you'll see people walking around in 

10 masks in the area.

11 Just a few weeks ago a 19-year-old family 

12 friend wrote on his Facebook that him and a few 

13 friends were dirt biking on the coal hills in the 

14 rain unknowingly the dangers of what happens to 

15 them by doing that. I wrote him right away, make 

16 sure you wash up really good and gargle. I pray 

17 that the under acknowledged people could live in 

18 good one day in the area.

19 Thank you very much.

20 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Just stay.

21 MS. DIXON: Yes, I'm Suzanne Dixon, and 

22 that's D-I-X-O-N. I was registered to vote, but 
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1 somehow I must have gotten lost.

2 I'm representing a group called the 

3 Kalamazoo River Sturgeon for Tomorrow and also 

4 the Saugatuck Dunes Coastal Alliance, and I am a 

5 member of the League of Women Voters, but I don't 

6 have their permission to speak in their name, but 

7 I would like to inform you that the defense of 

8 the Clean Air Act has been a priority within our 

9 organization, and we've been working on that.

10 I want to thank you for giving us this 

11 opportunity.

12 I'm from the eastern shores of Lake 

13 Michigan, so that's -- I'm in the Saugatuck Dunes 

14 Coastal Region, and that's in western Michigan.

15 We have a tourist and a fruit-growing 

16 economy. The air quality in my county is 

17 compromised because of the lack -- we have a lack 

18 of industry, and we have a low population. Yet 

19 today we have a clearer action alert today.

20 This isn't July. We don't have -- it's 

21 not a hot day. We, you know, enjoy those cool 

22 breezes, and it's not Chicago, so I just want to 
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1 let you know that.

2 I come before you to tell you about the 

3 loss of our family dog, about dredging in our 

4 community, and about sturgeon.

5 I'm a member of a sturgeon rehabilitation 

6 organization working hard to increase the 

7 Kalamazoo River's small threatened population. 

8 We were extremely fortunate to receive a rearing 

9 facility last year and celebrated the releases of 

10 about 130 juvenile sturgeon.

11 This year the story is very different. 

12 We had a severe storm event which caused a local 

13 dam operator to release a rush of water which 

14 washed out the equipment placed to capture the 

15 eggs for the rearing facility. These storms are 

16 unfortunately becoming more frequent.

17 The lack of snow pack caused bank 

18 collapse which is damaging our spawning sites. 

19 The sediment fills our recreational harbor. The 

20 local marina operator has had to adjust his 

21 dredging schedule around a changing spawning 

22 season due to early warming water. This 
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1 necessary dredging catches our juvenile sturgeon 

2 to be dumped into spoil piles.

3 Another dredging contributor is the lower 

4 water levels that we're experiencing. With 

5 little ice cover, more evaporation is occurring. 

6 Carbon pollution left unchecked is contributing 

7 to these more frequent and severe storms, 

8 increasing these water temperatures and the 

9 never-ending need to dredge.

10 We also have a severe insect problem. 

11 They're over wintering and presenting themselves 

12 earlier and in greater numbers. We've been 

13 picking ticks off of ourselves and our pets since 

14 February. My dog and my next-door neighbor's dog 

15 both died from Lyme's Disease within the last few 

16 months. And her other dog is currently being 

17 treated for the disease.

18 I support these reasonable standards to 

19 control carbon emissions from new electricity --

20 on new electric utility generating units.

21 When I need replacing -- when I have to 

22 replace things in my home, I -- you know, for 
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1 instance when I needed a new furnace, I got a 

2 high-efficiency furnace. I get, you know, more 

3 efficient operating refrigerators, and, you know, 

4 I really do expect the same thing from utility 

5 companies. As they build new utility plants, I 

6 think that they should be using the current 

7 technology that we have as being built by our 

8 American companies and prevent this pollution as, 

9 you know, the technology is available to them.

10 I'd finally like to say that my local 

11 representative and the Michigan State Attorney 

12 have been -- both intend to continue to obstruct 

13 your rules. And I see this as a political issue.

14 I'd like to offer my support to these 

15 proposed rules for cleaner air, and I intend to 

16 make sure my opinions are heard in my community.

17 Thank you.

18 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

19 Other folks who would like to -- okay.

20 MR. CARSTENS: Ross Carstens, C-A-R-S-T21 E-N-S. I am a fourth-year student at the 

22 University of Chicago and work with University of 
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1 Chicago Climate Action Network and the Chicago 

2 Youth Climate Coalition.

3 And I wanted to express my support for 

4 these rules, and also, I do feel that somewhat 

5 more aggressive action, if that were taken with

6 fewer loopholes and response to existing plants 

7 would be absolutely fantastic. 

8 I guess my personal story about why I 

9 feel this way -- I'm originally from New York. 

10 Almost all of my family has lived on Long Island 

11 for the last -- I don't know -- hundred years, I 

12 guess. And almost all of my family has houses 

13 along the coast of Long Island that would in 

14 coming years because of climate change will 

15 become nonexistent. They would become submerged 

16 in the ocean. I would have no place to live 

17 really. 

18 And expecting these rules are -- and 

19 rules like them are a big part of an effort to 

20 save territories like that island just talked 

21 about -- islands in San Francisco, many places 

22 like this where, you know, people's homes, 
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1 livelihoods get destroyed.

2 For me, personally, also I had asthma as 

3 a kid. I remember a number of times on the 

4 playground in kindergarten, and first grade, 

5 second grade, third grade where I was just 

6 playing football with my friends or something 

7 that any kid should be able to do and enjoy, and 

8 then all of a sudden I just couldn't breathe, and 

9 I would collapse not be able to move. And it was 

10 just this horrible feeling of helplessness and, 

11 you know, you think you're about to die. And 

12 then when that's something growing up as a kid 

13 that keeps happening over and over again because 

14 of things like pollutants in the atmosphere, 

15 because of too much carbon, it really can be very 

16 debilitating. And I'd really like to express my 

17 firm support for these rules to make people's 

18 lives better.

19 MS. NOONAN: Okay.

20 MR. ELLIS: Hi, my name is David Ellis. 

21 That's D-A-V-I-D, E-L-L-I-S. I actually live in 

22 northwest Indiana, and I’m a member of the 
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1 Executive Committee for the Hoosier Chapter of 

2 the Sierra Club, which is the Indiana Chapter of 

3 Sierra Club; and also, I represent our local

4 group which is the Dunelands Group. So, we're in 

5 northwest Indiana. I've lived pretty much my 

6 whole live in northwest Indiana in the industrial 

7 sacrificial zone which is Lake County. So I 

8 pretty much lived within just a few miles of 

9 heavy industry, some of the heaviest industry 

10 around.

11 I swam in Lake Michigan as a kid. And I 

12 remember sometimes when the wind was coming off 

13 the lake when I was a kid, we would smell some 

14 funny things in the air, but we never really 

15 thought much about it. I also experienced 

16 childhood asthma. Fortunately, I guess I outgrew 

17 it. I don't know any other -- better way about 

18 it.

19 Currently I'm training for a marathon if 

20 you can believe that -- as a runner, a distance 

21 runner. I'm kind of slow but steady. And when I 

22 think of carbon dioxide pollution in these 
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1 regulations, I feel like we're taking our first 

2 baby steps, and it's a 100 yard dash. Now I'm 

3 preparing for a marathon which is 26.2 miles. If 

4 I approached a hundred yard dash with the pace of 

5 a marathon runner, we'd lose. I would lose by a 

6 significant margin I believe.

7 And I know that this rulemaking is a 

8 first step. The EPA is about as old as I am. 

9 We're part of the same generation so to speak. 

10 And I know it's always a tough battle to get 

11 industry to change. And I think that's really 

12 critical that we need to change a lot faster than 

13 what we're used to. And I think the proposed 

14 rule can have some teeth. That's for sure.

15 But I would like to see -- aside from 

16 output of carbon dioxide emissions from the new 

17 power plants to include a full, more 

18 comprehensive life-cycle analysis of the carbon 

19 dioxide emissions that those plants will produce, 

20 including extracting the coal, transporting the 

21 coal, burning the coal, and finally, disposing of 

22 the waste products from coal combustion. I think 
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1 that would be a more comprehensive approach and a 

2 more systemic long-term view of the real impacts 

3 of these proposed power plants. 

4 We do have different ways to do it, but 

5 we do need to act quickly as a society to move 

6 beyond these kinds of pollution.

7 There was a time when people didn't 

8 really believe that there were invisible things 

9 that could make us sick. And we found out using 

10 microscopes that there were bacteria. And 

11 eventually we've discovered viruses. 

12 And I hear people today saying that, 

13 well, carbon dioxide is something that we exhale. 

14 It can't be that bad for us, or maybe, it's not 

15 our fault as society and humanity that things are 

16 changing. But I think that shouldn't excuse us 

17 from taking steps to change things as we can, 

18 honestly.

19 And I know that the -- I do trust that 

20 the mission of the EPA is to ultimately protect 

21 our environment, but I think that we need to act 

22 quickly. And the tighter the rules can be and 
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1 the more comprehensive and far-reaching that they 

2 would be would be a great benefit to humanity and 

3 all the rest of the species on this great blue 

4 and green earth that we inhabit, and it's the 

5 only home I know.

6 Thank you.

7 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Need two more?

9 MS. NOONAN: Sure. Please.

10 Anyone else in the audience who would 

11 like to testify at this time?

12 MS. HERHOLD: My name is Carole Herhold. 

13 That's C-A-R-O-L-E, last name H-E-R-H-O-L-D. And 

14 it's pronounced Herhold like Harold Washington I 

15 always say, and the second H is Spanish, so you 

16 don't sound the second H. So while I don't look 

17 like I'm all of these things, I am. I'm 

18 everyone. That's what I signed on the list.

19 I am just reading again the statement of 

20 Jenny Noonan, and she says we are here today to 

21 listen to your comments on EPA's proposed carbon 

22 pollution standard for new power plants. And 
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1 that's why I'm here. I've never done this 

2 before. That one lady was saying she had, you 

3 know, done it all of her life at local, state, 

4 national. 

5 And I was with the group in the area by 

6 the big flamingo bird and, you know, I had my 

7 blue shirt on and all of the proper -- I had 

8 never chanted before. I mean, you know, this is 

9 like I'm going into my childhood finally. 

10 And that was what brought me to remember 

11 the big noise in our driveway in the wintertime. 

12 And it would be the coal truck coming and 

13 pushing the coal down the chute into our special 

14 bin in the basement where the coal would be kept, 

15 and then my dad would come and shovel it out of 

16 there and into the furnace. And, you know, then 

17 it would come the registers upstairs, and we'd 

18 have all these black marks around the registers 

19 because of all the coal dust. So we have come a 

20 long way. And I just wanted to give you that 

21 little bit of history and say thank you very much 

22 for what you have done which is so foreign to all 
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1 I remember as a child.

2 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

3 MS. HERHOLD: Your turn.

4 MS. JOSEPH: My name is Ann Joseph, and a 

5 week ago I had said that I would testify. And 

6 then as I looked over a lot of the issues for the 

7 environment I'm saying, yes, we need to worry 

8 about carbon emissions. And I certainly support 

9 this limitation, but at the same time I have 

10 environmental concerns which go beyond this.

11 Our demand for energy in this world is 

12 overwhelming. And my fear is that as we focus on 

13 the carbon emissions, that seeing that natural 

14 gas has less carbon, that we will turn to natural 

15 gas. And natural gas is not that available.

16 And I'm reading in these terrible stories 

17 about what is happening with fracking. So, yes, 

18 I'm very concerned about the air pollution, but I 

19 am also concerned about the water pollution that 

20 comes from this alternative fossil fuel. I 

21 continue to be very concerned about all fossil 

22 fuels on both levels.
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1 This is not to say that I do not support 

2 this limitation. I definitely do. And I support 

3 practically everything that I have heard since I 

4 came in here today, but I don't necessarily feel 

5 the need to repeat that because I don't have 

6 anything new to say on that. I just hope that 

7 the EPA will take a broad look at protecting the 

8 environment which is your responsibility.

9 Thank you.

10 MS. NOONAN: Ms. Joseph, would spell your 

11 name into the microphone?

12 MS. JOSEPH: First name, A-N-N. Last 

13 name, J-O-S-E-P-H.

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

15 Okay. Joseph Weston and Dr. Lora 

16 Chamberlain.

17 [Pause.]

18 MS. NOONAN: Is Dr. Chamberlain here?

19 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Yes, I'm ready.

20 MS. NOONAN: Oh, okay. You can actually 

21 sit right at the table.

22 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Oh.
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1 MR. WESTON: Good evening, ladies and 

2 gentlemen of the committee. Thank you for 

3 letting me speak here today.

4 My name is Joe Weston. I am a graduate 

5 of West Point and a two-time veteran of Operation 

6 Iraqi Freedom, with the First Brigade Combat 

7 Team, 82nd Airborne Division. Currently I serve 

8 in the Army Reserves, and I'm a graduate student 

9 at the University of Chicago's Harris School of 

10 Public Policy. And today I represent the 

11 Operation Free Campaign.

12 It was just over a year ago in North 

13 Carolina that I was huddled in a parking garage 

14 watching a tornado pass through downtown Raleigh. 

15 As the tornado darkened the sky and passed me by, 

16 my friend, an Army helicopter pilot, was minutes 

17 from being trapped in a Lowe's Home Improvement 

18 Warehouse in Sanford, North Carolina. Nearby 

19 Fort Bragg sustained damage to vehicles, 

20 equipment, and facilities. Soldiers training 

21 were called in from the field, and immense work 

22 began to get accountability of damage across the 
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1 installation and at our homes.

2 Training and resources, jumps, were all 

3 postponed and millions of dollars were sacrificed 

4 over these canceled events alone. 1,706 tornados 

5 hit the United States last year, most of which 

6 were outside of Tornado Alley, and some as far 

7 north as Massachusetts.

8 The severe weather claimed 553 lives and 

9 caused an estimated $20 billion in damage. This 

10 wasn't the first especially deadly weather in 

11 recent memory that affected our military. 

12 Hurricane Katrina devastated the coast of 

13 Louisiana, and the 3rd Brigade, 82nd Airborne was 

14 sent to fix New Orleans. My fellow 82nd 

15 paratroopers deployed domestically while there 

16 were two wars abroad, reducing our global 

17 response capability.

18 While these particular weather patterns 

19 cannot be directly linked to climate change, 

20 scientists have estimated that effects of climate 

21 change will be similar -- rising water levels, 

22 heat waves, freak storms, and changing weather 
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1 patterns exacerbated by global climate change 

2 will require increased humanitary aid and 

3 military response.

4 The Department of Defense recognizes that 

5 climate change is a threat multiplier, an 

6 accelerant of instability or conflict. With 30 

7 threatened bases at sea level and troops reacting 

8 to instability around the world, the Department 

9 of Defense has serious stake in this issue.

10 Increasing the regulation of carbon fuels 

11 will mitigate these risks and drive the free 

12 market to invest in technology that will reduce 

13 the strain on our military. 

14 To those who argue that disaster and 

15 instability will happen regardless of climate 

16 change, I propose the following metaphor: 

17 Imagine you are visiting the pediatrician's 

18 office with your child. After the doctor has 

19 finished the examination, he tells you he 

20 believes with a strong certainty that your child 

21 has a fatal condition that, if left untreated, 

22 will eventually kill your child. There are a few
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1 other doctors who believe that your child may not 

2 actually have this condition, but if they are 

3 wrong, your child will suffer needlessly and die. 

4 Luckily, the treatment is simple. Live healthy, 

5 exercise, maintain a wholesome diet. This 

6 lifestyle change would impose a cost on your 

7 family, but it would be minor compared to the 

8 potential downside. Would you undergo this 

9 treatment plan for your child? Do you invest in 

10 a healthier lifestyle for the sake of your 

11 child's life, or do you gamble, play the odds,

12 for the sake of convenience?

13 Today I implore decision makers who are 

14 the proverbial parents to this nation to make the 

15 smart choice and use the proposed regulation to 

16 further limit greenhouse gases. I ask you to 

17 implement this for our troops, like me, who have 

18 had to respond to global instability in 18 hours' 

19 notice and risk their lives wherever and whenever 

20 they are called.

21 The risk of not implementing this carbon 

22 reduction policy is too great to ignore. The 
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1 military understands this risk and the importance 

2 of risk mitigation. Implementing a carbon 

3 limitation policy will not only reduce greenhouse 

4 gas emissions but decrease the chances of future 

5 disasters that distract our military from actual 

6 security threats.

7 Thank you very much.

8 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. And just spell 

9 your name into the microphone.

10 MR. WESTON: Joseph Weston, J-O-S-E-P-H, 

11 W-E-S-T-O-N.

12 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

13 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Hi, I'm Dr. Lora 

14 Chamberlain. And I am here in support of the 

15 proposed regulation to limit CO2 release.

16 And I want to talk about the hidden side 

17 of the world's carbon crisis and climate crisis. 

18 And that's the acidification of the oceans. This 

19 is a severe problem, and hardly anybody talks 

20 about it and relate it to the climate change. 

21 And although all of the other aspects of climate 

22 change are extremely important, so is the 
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1 acidification of our oceans.

2 About half of all CO2 emissions are 

3 absorbed by the oceans and chain of this 

4 acidification of the oceans. All of life has a 

5 pH balance based on carbon -- carbon dioxide --

6 that is extremely regulated to a very fine degree 

7 -- all of us, every single one of us, and thus, 

8 the oceans as well. And so half of all of the CO2

9 emissions are absorbed by the oceans, and it 

10 changes the pH in the chemistry of the seas. 

11 This diminishing -- this acidification of the 

12 ocean decreases the species available. 

13 Definitely extinctions have occurred because of 

14 this, and it disrupts the food supply, affecting 

15 the lives of billions of people and the 

16 livelihoods of many trades from fishermen to 

17 tourism.

18 So over the last 250 years the oceans 

19 have absorbed 530 billion tons of carbon dioxide, 

20 increasing the acidity of the oceans by 30 

21 percent. The ocean pH had remained stable for 20 

22 million years before we started to burn carbon. 
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1 And now we are fastly approaching the extinction 

2 of our coral reefs.

3 At the present level of CO2 release the 

4 ocean acidity will double by 2100. The southern 

5 oceans are being impacted the greatest as the 

6 polar regions -- I'm sure people have talked 

7 about this. The southern oceans will actually 

8 become corrosive, so acidic that they're actually 

9 corrosive by 2050. This immediately impacts 

10 coral reefs and the shell life. 

11 So shells are made by the species 

12 utilizing calcium carbonate, and when the 

13 acidification of the oceans occur, this calcium 

14 carbonate becomes very brittle and unstable so 

15 that shells cannot form. And it's very similar 

16 to osteoporosis in human beings -- and slowing 

17 the growth of all shell life and including the 

18 very small micro ocean life.

19 And this affecting the bottom of the food 

20 chain of the oceans will affect the higher levels 

21 of life as well. So acidification also slows 

22 reef building, and all of this combined is 
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1 affecting the overall numbers of fish that we 

2 have in our ocean and the variety and the 

3 diversity of life in our ocean.

4 And the tipping point for the coral reefs 

5 would happen as soon as 2050. So I'm really 

6 begging you to consider the livelihoods of 

7 billions of people and the life supply, the food 

8 supply of billions of people as you consider this 

9 proposed regulation.

10 Such a disappearance as the complete 

11 extinction of the coral reefs is going to impact 

12 -- really, I can't even -- I don't even think 

13 there's estimates of how many people get their 

14 livelihood from the oceans.

15 I have seen it myself. I'm a SCUBA 

16 diver. And I have seen the disruption of the 

17 coral ribs throughout the Caribbean and 

18 throughout the world. And it's really 

19 devastating. Even Jacques Cousteau said it in 

20 his last years that we must do something to save 

21 the coral reefs. So please consider the oceans 

22 when you consider your proposed regulations.
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1 Thank you very much.

2 MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much.

3 We are at -- we're going to take a five4 minute break and then we will come right back.

5 [Break from 4:28 p.m. to 4:34 p.m.]

6 MS. NOONAN: Okay. We're going to start. 

7 Olivia Woollam?

8 MS. WOOLLAM: Yes, my name is Olivia 

9 Woollam, W-O-O-L-L-A-M. I am a student at the 

10 University of Chicago and I wanted to testify at 

11 this EPA hearing because I -- I'm originally from 

12 New Orleans, and I live in a -- what is 

13 constituted kind of like an environmentally 

14 vulnerable area. And I think that especially 

15 here in Chicago we often think about coal 

16 generation as something that fuels our economy, 

17 fuels our lifestyles, and we don't necessarily 

18 think about the direct impact that it has on 

19 lives, especially in -- even in our own country 

20 but also in other places that are environmentally 

21 vulnerable. 

22 So I wanted to come and speak today 
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1 because I think it's really important that our 

2 generation especially -- I'm 22. And I think 

3 that our generation is going to be held 

4 responsible for the continuation of the immense 

5 destruction that the last hundred years have 

6 waged on our planet. And I think that it's 

7 incredibly important that the EPA continues to 

8 have the capacity and the desire to do what its 

9 original intent was, which is to protect our 

10 natural resources and protect our ability to use 

11 our natural space as well and as for as long as 

12 we can.

13 And so as far as the creation of yet 

14 more, you know, production -- capacity for 

15 generation which is even more than agriculture, 

16 like the highest emitter of greenhouse gases that 

17 we have in our daily lives, I think it's 

18 incredibly important that we try to be rational 

19 about the ways and kind of the priorities that we 

20 have in developing those facilities.

21 Thank you.

22 MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much.
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1 Okay. With that, that concludes our 

2 speakers for this afternoon. We will come back 

3 at, I believe, 5:30. So there will be more 

4 speakers at that time. You're welcome to rejoin 

5 us or if anyone has been moved to speak at that 

6 point, you're welcome to sign up on the 

7 registration table out there. Thank you.

8 [Break from 4:37 p.m. to 5:35 p.m.]

9 MS. NOONAN: Thank you for attending this 

10 public hearing. My name is Jenny Noonan, and I 

11 am the Director of the Policy Analysis and 

12 Communications staff at EPA's Office of Air 

13 Quality, Planning, and Standards, and I will be 

14 chairing tonight's hearing.

15 Joining me on the panel are Christian 

16 Fellner, who is also with EPA's Office of Air 

17 Quality, Planning, and Standards in the Sector 

18 Policies and Programs Division. And also I am 

19 joined by Michael Compher with EPA's Region 5 

20 Office.

21 We are here today to listen to your 

22 comments on EPA's Proposed Carbon Pollution 
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1 Standard for New Power Plants. EPA published the 

2 proposed standard in the Federal Register on 

3 April 13th, 2012. This common sense step under 

4 the Clean Air Act would, for the first time, set 

5 national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 

6 that power plants built in the future can emit.

7 For future power plants EPA is proposing 

8 to set an output-based standard of 1,000 pounds 

9 of carbon dioxide per megawatt hour. The 

10 Agency's proposal does not apply to existing 

11 units or to planned units that have already 

12 received permits and break ground within the next 

13 12 months. 

14 EPA's proposed standard reflects the 

15 ongoing trend in the power sector to build 

16 cleaner plants that take advantage of American17 made technologies. The proposal is flexible and 

18 would help minimize carbon pollution through the 

19 deployment of the same types of modern 

20 technologies that power companies are already 

21 using to build the next generation of power 

22 plants. EPA's proposal would ensure that this 
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1 progress toward a cleaner, safer, and more modern 

2 power sector continues.

3 Today we will be accepting oral comments 

4 on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 

5 prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 

6 transcript will be available as part the official 

7 record for this rule. We are also accepting 

8 written comments on the proposed rule until June 

9 25th, 2012.

10 At the registration area, which is 

11 located in the hallway outside of this room, 

12 there are handouts with detailed information for 

13 submitting written comments by mail, fax, or 

14 electronically. EPA will consider your comments 

15 as we move forward to complete a final rule.

16 Now let me describe the procedures for 

17 today's hearing. I will call the speakers to the 

18 table in pairs. When it is your turn to speak, 

19 please state your name and your affiliation 

20 before you begin your testimony. It would help 

21 our court reporter if you also spell your name.

22 In order to be fair to everyone, we will 
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1 limit your testimony to five minutes each; and we 

2 ask that you remain at the table until both 

3 speakers in the pair have finished. After you 

4 finish your testimony, the members of the panel 

5 may ask clarifying questions.

6 If, in addition to the transcript of your 

7 testimony, you would also like us to put the full 

8 text of your comments into the docket, please be 

9 sure to give a copy of any written comments

10 either to our staff at the registration table or 

11 we will take them here.

12 We have a time-keeping system consisting 

13 of green, yellow, and red lights to help you 

14 track your five minutes to speak. When you begin 

15 speaking the green light will come on. The 

16 yellow light will signal that you have one minute 

17 left. When the red light comes on, five minutes 

18 have past and I will ask you to please complete 

19 your testimony.

20 Today's hearing began at 8:30 this 

21 morning and will continue until 8:00 o'clock 

22 tonight or later, if necessary, depending on the 
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1 number of speakers. We've reconvened twice, and 

2 here we are.

3 If you would like to testify but have not 

4 yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 

5 registration table. For those who have already 

6 registered to speak, we have tried to accommodate 

7 your requests for specific time slots. We ask 

8 for your patience as we proceed through the list 

9 of speakers. We may need to make some 

10 adjustments as the evening progresses.

11 If any questions arise throughout the 

12 evening, please see a staff member at the 

13 registration table for assistance.

14 Again, thank you all for participating 

15 today. Let's get started.

16 Our first two speakers for the evening 

17 are Jen Woronecki and Paul Kim. Please come to 

18 the table.

19 MS. WORONECKI: Hi, I'm Jen Woronecki. 

20 It's J-E-N-N-Y. Woronecki is W-O-R-O-N-E-C-K-I. 

21 I had not planned on testifying, so I will try 

22 not to ramble.
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1 My affiliations are with Sierra Club, 

2 specifically the Northwest Indiana Group. It's 

3 the Dunelands Group where I am the Secretary. 

4 Also, Moraine Ridge Wildlife Rehab, which is also 

5 in northwest Indiana where I'm the Vice6 President.

7 So I've spent most of my life in 

8 northwest Indiana, also the Chicagoland area, 

9 also a filmmaker and author, was educated here 

10 just a few blocks away at Columbia. So I've 

11 really had my entire life take place in the 

12 Chicagoland area. So I've been exposed to these 

13 toxins the whole length of it. And so have my 

14 family members. My parents were both born in 

15 northwest Indiana and have remained here.

16 We heard about a lot of asthma cases and 

17 statistics. My father was one of those asthma 

18 children, as was I. He kind of, I guess, put 

19 that -- well, fear of asthma into my head at a 

20 young age. I hadn't been suffering from asthma 

21 yet, but I heard the stories of him as a child 

22 growing up in the mid '50's having to be picked 
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1 up by the ambulance once a week because of his 

2 asthma attacks until his widowed mother finally 

3 had to take him and his brother to Arizona just 

4 so he could breathe.

5 Once the asthma cleared up, actually 

6 after a few years there, they came back to the 

7 area where the asthma started up again; but they 

8 didn't have enough money to go back to Arizona, 

9 so they remained.

10 And then I started having the attacks, 

11 too, once I got into my early teen years. And to 

12 hear about the statistics is -- well, pretty 

13 disturbing, but I think it was even more 

14 disturbing for my parents to see that. You know, 

15 my dad was used to growing up with it. And it's 

16 a pretty intense thing to experience firsthand, 

17 but I think to see your child go through that --

18 I mean, I know I was pretty stressed out when I 

19 was laying in bed in the middle of the night 

20 suddenly not being able to breathe, but the look 

21 of horror on my parents' face -- you know, it's 

22 just beyond helplessness. Just the terror in my 
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1 mom's eyes thinking that I might die.

2 And, you know, that's not a statistic. 

3 That's something that is real life that people go 

4 through, and it's -- I mean, it's terrifying.

5 I guess what popped into my head and made 

6 me want to testify as I was sitting here 

7 listening to everyone's stories was that, you 

8 know, when there are products like cribs that 

9 come out and, you know, the babies are getting 

10 their heads stuck in them, they're recalled. Or 

11 when there are venetian blinds and toddlers are 

12 getting the cords wrapped around their necks and 

13 being strangled, they're recalled. You know, 

14 infant formula turns out to have some poison in 

15 it. It's recalled.

16 But these plants have been poisoning kids 

17 for, I mean, how long now? You know, my dad was 

18 suffering from this in the '50's. And, you know, 

19 what happens with these plants that are already 

20 in existence? And this is not going to apply to 

21 them. You know, this is a really great start. 

22 Don't get me wrong, this is fantastic, but you 
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1 know, this has gone on too long.

2 And this is something that has been 

3 really detrimental to the health of Americans. 

4 You know, when other countries -- oh, I don't 

5 know, poison Americans in vast numbers, you know, 

6 it might be considered chemical warfare or

7 terrorism. I don't know why these companies 

8 aren't looked at in such serious terms.

9 And I think that's something that people 

10 need to start considering, that this isn't just 

11 business. It's not just making money. It's not 

12 just environmentalists versus corporations. This 

13 is some pretty serious stuff here that is really 

14 threatening the lives of a lot of people. And I 

15 mean, it's not even just the United States. You 

16 know, pollution doesn't just stay in one area, 

17 and it doesn't just affect a few things. You 

18 know, this is global.

19 You know, like everybody said, oceans --

20 you know vast things, large places. You know, 

21 it's a pretty big deal, and it's not just about 

22 global warming. It's about things around us 
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1 dying and not being able to be brought back.

2 Thank you.

3 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Kim?

4 MR. KIM: Thank you. So, I saw something 

5 -- oh, first of all, my name is Paul Kim, P-A-U6 L, K-I-M. I'm a student at the University of 

7 Chicago, and I guess I'm with Sierra Club, too, 

8 in Chicago.

9 So, I'm a student at the University of 

10 Chicago, and I'm doing climate research for the 

11 summer. At least I hope to make that into a 

12 career. And I saw something on Facebook the 

13 other day that I thought was very good.

14 If we had aliens come to earth and emit 

15 something into our atmosphere that they were 

16 pretty sure was going to do huge amounts of 

17 damage to our civilization, we would do something 

18 about it. If that were aliens, we would do 

19 something about it, but if humans are putting 

20 something into the air that we're pretty sure is 

21 going to do a lot of damage to our civilization, 

22 we ought to do something about it just the same.
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1 And so I’m glad that the EPA is 

2 considering regulating generation in this way, 

3 especially since it's, I think, the sector of our 

4 economy that makes the most carbon dioxide. I 

5 think that's right.

6 And we're on our way to way above what 

7 any scientist thinks is reasonable. So, I guess 

8 I'm also here because I think like some other 

9 people have said, the people who are alive today, 

10 but especially my generation, are going to be 

11 judged by future generations for what we did on 

12 this subject. And I think it's -- I think it's 

13 morally incumbent on us for the sake of ourselves 

14 and our children and grandchildren and the people 

15 of the next several centuries that we do the 

16 right things to do this. So I’m glad that we're 

17 starting to just directly look at carbon. 

18 That's it.

19 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you both very 

20 much.

21 Next up we have Lucinda Hohmann and Amy 

22 Ochalski.
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1 MS. HOHMANN: I guess I start. The 

2 microphone is facing me.

3 Thank you, first of all, for the 

4 opportunity to testify in support of EPA's power 

5 plant carbon standard. My name is Lucinda 

6 Hohmann, L-U-C-I-N-D-A, Hohmann, H-O-H-M-A-N-N. 

7 And I'm with the Midwest Office of the Union of 

8 Concerned Scientists.

9 UCS is the nation's leading science-based 

10 non-profit working for a healthy environment and 

11 safer world. So I'm here on behalf of UCS -- has 

12 more than 350,000 supporters and a network of 

13 about 18,000 scientists who show strong support 

14 for the EPA's efforts to reduce carbon emissions 

15 from coal and oil-fired power plants under the 

16 Clean Air Act.

17 UCS works at advancing awareness of both 

18 the science of climate change and the solutions 

19 to help lower emissions and mitigate the worst 

20 impacts of climate change.

21 There are many reasons for reduced carbon 

22 emissions, and many of those reasons you've heard 
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1 about here today. I want to use the time that I 

2 have today to pull all those reasons together and 

3 emphasize the diversity and volume of support for 

4 the rule. So it might work.

5 I, personally, traveled the Midwest 

6 region extensively over the last seven years and 

7 have had conversations with literally thousands 

8 of individuals who are deeply concerned about 

9 climate change. I've worked with scientists, 

10 economists, business leaders, engineers, 

11 concerned parents, and farmers just to name a 

12 few. And these individuals all have very 

13 different perspectives, but all agree that we 

14 need to reduce carbon emissions and transition to 

15 a clean energy economy.

16 So let me explain. I grew up on a farm 

17 in rural Wisconsin, and I can you firsthand that 

18 no one cares more about the changing climate than 

19 Wisconsin dairy farmers. So one example of how 

20 climate change is impacting farmers is extreme 

21 heat. Extreme heat puts an enormous amount of 

22 physical stress on dairy cattle. And any dairy 
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1 farmer will tell you that milking cows 

2 experiencing high levels of physical stress will 

3 decline milk production.

4 During one of my recent trips to Ohio I 

5 spent an afternoon with the president of Dovetail 

6 Solar and Wind. Dovetail Solar and Wind is a 

7 small firm that specializes in renewable energy 

8 system design and installation. The President 

9 spent the afternoon filling me in on how he 

10 started his company 17 years ago with five 

11 employees and today employs more than 40 full12 time, well-paid staff.

13 Any savvy business owner would tell you 

14 that to stay ahead in the business world you have 

15 to be on the cutting edge of innovation. 

16 And then just a couple of weeks ago I was 

17 at a clean energy event in Michigan, and I asked 

18 the woman sitting next to me why she decided to 

19 come and attend such an event. And she didn't 

20 say a word but instead pointed to the young boy 

21 sitting beside her. Any parent will tell you 

22 that one of the most important goals in life is 
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1 to create a better world for their child.

2 So with me today I have 320 comments that 

3 are signed by concerned citizens from Ohio, 

4 Indiana, and Kentucky. And today I would like to 

5 enter into the record these 320 comments in 

6 support of EPA's standards to limit carbon 

7 emissions from new power plants.

8 But I do want to emphasize that these 

9 comments are just a small sample of the hundreds 

10 of thousands of people across the country who 

11 support action to reduce greenhouse gas 

12 emissions, protect our health, and transition to 

13 a cleaner energy economy. The diversity and 

14 volume of support for this rule is unmistakable. 

15 We applaud the EPA for moving forward 

16 with these carbon standards for new power plants. 

17 We request that you move quickly to finalize 

18 them, and we urge you to issue strong carbon 

19 standards for existing power plants without 

20 delay.

21 Ultimately other forms of strong action 

22 will be required to achieve the full-scale of 
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1 deep reductions that are needed to reduce or 

2 avoid some of the worst impacts of climate 

3 change. But these rules are very necessary and 

4 important first steps.

5 Thank you very much for the opportunity 

6 to speak today.

7 MS. OCHALSKI: Good evening. My name is 

8 Amy Ochalski. It's spelled Amy, A-M-Y, O-C-H-A9 L-S-K-I. And I am the Healthy Air Campaign 

10 Manager for the American Lung Association in 

11 Illinois.

12 I help raise awareness about the 

13 importance of clean air for healthy communities 

14 and also about how policies created in 

15 Washington, D.C. have a direct impact on the 

16 quality of our air.

17 And to date 15 Illinois public health 

18 organizations have signed onto our campaign in 

19 support of stronger air pollution standards. Our 

20 partners range in size and scope from small 

21 county health departments to chapters of national 

22 health advocacy organizations. And however, they 
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1 do share a common goal of improving public health 

2 and realize that clean air is fundamental to 

3 achieving this goal.

4 On behalf of the American Lung 

5 Association and Illinois' Healthy Air Campaign I 

6 want to express support for the proposed carbon 

7 pollution standards for new power plants. I 

8 spend a lot of my time talking at health fairs 

9 and community meetings about how public policy 

10 affects the quality of our air we breathe in 

11 Illinois. I explain the intricacies of how EPA 

12 makes the rules, and how these rules sometimes 

13 get weakened or delayed or even eliminated 

14 together.

15 There are definitely a few things I've 

16 learned as a result. The first is that people 

17 get pretty bored when you talk a lot about public 

18 policy, and the second thing is that people 

19 really do count on you and your colleagues to 

20 look out for their best interests. So they count 

21 on you to make sure the air is clean as it can 

22 possibly be.
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1 In 2010 alone the Clean Air Act prevented 

2 160,000 premature deaths, 1.7 million instances 

3 of asthma exacerbation, 41,000 respiratory 

4 hospital admissions, and 45,000 cardiovascular 

5 hospital admissions. New and improved 

6 regulations are expected to save even more.

7 So cleaner air will improve the lives of 

8 many of the people in Illinois and throughout the 

9 country. Please make new power plants as clean 

10 as they can possibly be by creating the strongest 

11 possible rules for carbon pollution.

12 Thank you.

13 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

14 Next up we have Nadia Oehlsen and Mary L. 

15 Fox. And just so we know who's on deck, next 

16 we'll have Edward Warren and Grace Pai.

17 MS. OEHLSEN: Hi, my name is Nadia 

18 Oehlsen. It's spelled just like Nadia, N-A-D-I19 A. Last name is O-E-H-L-S-E-N. I’m a volunteer 

20 with the Chicago Group of the Sierra Club. And I 

21 also help out with the Illinois Sierra Club from 

22 time to time. I've lived in Chicago for most of 
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1 my life and Illinois for all of my life.

2 I really appreciate you all extending the 

3 time of the hearing so those of us who work day 

4 jobs can make it out to have our thoughts heard.

5 I appreciate the many ways in which the 

6 EPA has long-protected us from our legislators, 

7 from the lack of will or bad decisions of state 

8 and local governments.

9 Illinois is a prime example of why we 

10 need strong federal environmental regulations to 

11 protect the common interest when local lawmakers 

12 can't or won't. Right now our state legislators 

13 recently passed -- and our senators are now 

14 considering -- a bill I find ridiculous that 

15 would enable a contorted and unfair funding 

16 structure for an unnecessary new power plant in 

17 Taylorville, Illinois. This is just one example. 

18 If built, Tenaska would eventually convert dirty 

19 Illinois coal into synthetic natural gas only to 

20 create excess electricity we don't currently 

21 need. This electricity could cost residential 

22 and commercial customers more based on unproven 
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1 carbon sequestration technology, but the company 

2 has not proven that they will actually be able or 

3 willing to use.

4 Unfortunately, too many of our state 

5 legislators have allowed the prospects of 

6 temporary union jobs, temporary vote-trading 

7 arrangements, promises of college scholarships 

8 and other bribes to cloud their judgment. In 

9 exchange for these short-term gains, they're 

10 willing to enable the building of a plant that 

11 will ultimately threaten our farmland and water 

12 supplies with additional coal mining, our climate 

13 with additional carbon emissions, and our economy 

14 with higher electricity bills.

15 I am willing to pay more for electricity 

16 that's cleaner, more sustainable, and fair to 

17 everyone. I'm not willing to pay more for what 

18 appears to be another dirty Illinois horse19 trading deal that will funnel ill-gotten funds to 

20 a few at the expense of many. And I'm hoping 

21 additional regulations will stop the building of 

22 this plant and others that may have unacceptable 
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1 carbon emissions in the future.

2 Climate change is already costing us all 

3 in hotter summers, more extreme weather events, 

4 and mass extinctions. As a consumer who's 

5 concerned about climate change, I am grateful for 

6 the prospect of common sense federal regulations 

7 that can limit carbon emissions from new power 

8 plants, protecting our battered climate even when 

9 too many of our lawmakers lack the foresight or 

10 courage to make the right decisions.

11 I hope that just when state legislators 

12 are poised to once again fail us, the EPA might 

13 step in to save the day with additional 

14 regulations to limit carbon emissions from power 

15 plants. Thank you.

16 MS. FOX: Good evening. My name is Mary 

17 Fox, F-O-X. 

18 I am here to voice my support for the new 

19 proposed rule to regulate carbon emissions for 

20 new coal plants. I have seen the results of the 

21 environmental regulations in cleaner air and 

22 waterways. And this work must continue to 
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1 preserve our planet and keep it save for our 

2 children and for future generations.

3 Thank you for your time.

4 MS. NOONAN: Thank you very much.

5 Edward Warden and Grace Pai?

6 MS. PAI: Good evening. My name is Grace 

7 Pai, spelled P-A-I. I'm a student at the 

8 University of Chicago. I'm in my second year, 

9 and I’m a member of Chicago Youth Climate 

10 Coalition. 

11 So to start off, I agree wholeheartedly 

12 with everything that I've been here to hear, 

13 which is in, like, the past five or so maybe, in 

14 support of your proposed regulations.

15 The perspective that I'd like to provide 

16 is one of both a student and a young person, and 

17 also someone who just really values or has been 

18 thinking a lot about it recently at least this 

19 (unintelligible) home. So, on Sunday when NATO 

20 was in town, I attended one of the large protests 

21 as part of the environmental block. And so my 

22 prop was a monarch butterfly. And the reason I 
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1 had that butterfly was because it symbolized 

2 climate refugees. And so I was thinking kind of 

3 a lot about that that day.

4 And as a student living in Chicago -- and 

5 I've only been here two years. I've been 

6 thinking kind of about whether Chicago is my home 

7 or whether my home is actually in Los Angeles 

8 where I am from, and kind of how much I value 

9 this ability to go back to my home that has a lot 

10 of support for me.

11 And so when I had this butterfly, I 

12 thought about all the people who are affected by 

13 things that they can't control, by rising sea 

14 levels, by climate change, by these kind of --

15 by, like, polluted air. And so I thought that in 

16 terms of just kind of thinking about human 

17 dignity and that ability go back to a home and 

18 kind of preserve your home and not be forced to 

19 move somewhere by things that you really have no 

20 control over -- if there is anything that -- in 

21 the world that I could do to stop that, that I 

22 should and that I would. And so that's why I'm 
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1 here today is to kind of express my huge support 

2 for these steps that the United States EPA is 

3 taking to combat the affects of climate change 

4 because I think the reach of this regulation is 

5 far beyond anything that I can possibly 

6 comprehend as a student, as a young person, as a 

7 citizen of Chicago. And so I just wanted to 

8 thank you for your time and for coming here to 

9 hear our voices.

10 MR. WARDEN: So my name is Edward Warden. 

11 I am second-year at the University of Chicago, an 

12 active member of the Chicago Youth Climate 

13 Coalition and a lifelong Chicago resident.

14 MS. NOONAN: Can you spell your last 

15 name?

16 MR. WARDEN: Warden, W-A-R-D-E-N.

17 The U.S. is one of the largest 

18 contributors to carbon pollution in the 

19 atmosphere, and it's overwhelmingly clear at this 

20 point human carbon emissions are causing global 

21 climate change. This is important to me because 

22 I don't want to live in a world where extreme 
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1 weather is the norm that devastates our 

2 communities and our homes. And I don't want to 

3 live in a world where the local flora and fauna 

4 that I grew up with all my life goes extinct or -

5 - because it can't adapt quick enough. I don't 

6 want to live in a world where islands and coastal 

7 areas are flooded and we have refugees that we 

8 don't know what to do with and often don't want 

9 to deal with. And I don't want to have to deal 

10 with the expanding ranges of diseases and their 

11 carriers that will find new homes because of the 

12 changing climate.

13 These things are all things that will 

14 occur and are already occurring because of global 

15 climate change. And I feel that it is the burden 

16 of the United States and everyone here to see 

17 that we, as a country, reduce our carbon 

18 emissions.

19 The new carbon pollution standard for new 

20 power plants is as crucial and important step in 

21 that direction, and I guess to keep my testimony 

22 nice and short, as you guys travel the country 
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1 and garner support and comments, understand that 

2 for me the EPA has unrequited support, and I'm 

3 sure that there are many, many, many people in 

4 Chicago and across this country who will stand up 

5 and do whatever it takes to make sure that the 

6 things you are doing, like this new standard, go 

7 forward and are established.

8 Thank you.

9 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both very much.

10 Up next, please, Craig Chrispell and 

11 Becky Schillo. And then on deck Elizabeth Stark 

12 and Angie Viandis -- Viands.

13 MR. CHRISPELL: Good afternoon, and thank 

14 you for the opportunity to speak today.

15 My name is Craig Chrispell, C-R-A-I-G, 

16 Chrispell, C-H-R-I-S-P-E-L-L. I work in the 

17 Environmental Affairs Department for Hoosier 

18 Energy, a rural electric cooperative based in 

19 Bloomington, Indiana.

20 Hoosier Energy is a not-for-profit 

21 generation and transmission cooperative serving 

22 18 rural cooperatives in central and southern 
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1 Indiana as well as a portion of southeastern 

2 Illinois. I'm speaking on behalf of our members.

3 Our comments are also -- will reflect the 

4 concerns of the National Rural Electric 

5 Cooperative Association.

6 Hoosier Energy produces electricity with 

7 an increasingly diverse range of energy sources. 

8 These sources include renewable energy such as 

9 landfill gas, hydro, wind, as well as traditional 

10 fuels -- natural gas, combined cycle, coal, and 

11 gas turbines.

12 Our members expect and strive for 

13 affordable electricity produced in an 

14 environmental acceptable manner. This rule

15 effectively, though, deletes an affordable and 

16 abundant domestic fuel source from either use and 

17 innovation. 

18 Problems and aspects -- or the aspects of 

19 this rule: One, the rule effectively redefines 

20 the source by taking the limits to an alternative 

21 fuel. The standard is based on the performance 

22 of a natural gas combined cycle which EPA has 
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1 determined constitutes the best system of 

2 emission reduction for this source category.

3 And the thing is that EPA is taking the 

4 unprecedented step of defining new source 

5 performance standards for both coal-fired power 

6 plants and natural gas power plants together by 

7 setting the standard for coal-based power on the 

8 performance of natural gas power plants.

9 This is a doctrine known as fuel 

10 switching or redefining the source. EPA has said 

11 in the past, and the courts have agreed, that EPA 

12 doesn't have the authority to redefine a source.

13 Number two, basically a coal-fired power 

14 plant will have three options. The preferred 

15 option seems to not to use coal and switch to 

16 natural gas. Another option would be to use 

17 supercritical older technology, a coal 

18 technology, for 10 years, but over 30 years EPA 

19 is going to hold you to a more stringent standard 

20 and expect you to phase that out. The third 

21 option is to use carbon capture and sequestration 

22 which EPA says is technically feasible. There is 
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1 not any coal-fired power plant or any power plant 

2 in the world has been able even with substantial 

3 government subsidies to use this technology on a 

4 commercial scale. At this time coal capture and 

5 storage is just not economically viable nor 

6 commercially available.

7 In the preamble to the rule, the NSPS 

8 wouldn't, as proposed -- not apply to existing 

9 EGUs [phonetic], including existing EGUs that 

10 undertake modifications or are reconstructed.

11 Although emission standards promulgated 

12 by EPA under Section 111(b) of the Clean Air Act 

13 traditionally have applied to modified and 

14 reconstructed facilities. EPA states that it has 

15 insufficient data on which to base greenhouse gas 

16 emission standards for modified or reconstructed 

17 sources.

18 The proposed NSPS limit limits for new 

19 sources must not apply to existing sources in 

20 connection with PSB or NSR applicability. Or EPA 

21 must provide the rule as proposed to make it 

22 absolutely clear that the rule does not apply to 
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1 simple cycle combustion power plants. EPA has 

2 made statements to this fact that the rule as 

3 drafted would require combustion turbines to 

4 limit operations to only 900 hours or less, which 

5 would have a major affect on system reliability.

6 Lastly, because of the rule any future 

7 innovation to potentially help energy strategy 

8 and costs in the United States would not be 

9 tolerated whatsoever to coal, the United States' 

10 most abundant domestic energy source.

11 Also, effectively removing that source of 

12 energy from our country's energy mix raises 

13 additional concerns due to the volatility that 

14 exists in other energy markets. Losing the 

15 option to generate power from coal, which has 

16 been historically stable cost compared to oil and 

17 gas is a risk we shouldn't be willing to take at 

18 this point. The fact that the NSPS prevents gas 

19 emissions for power plants will increase 

20 electricity costs for residential consumers and 

21 businesses in the U.S. is beyond dispute. These 

22 higher prices, in turn, will undermine the U.S. 
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1 economy and future progress to curb greenhouse 

2 gas emissions.

3 Our charter as a rural electric 

4 cooperative is to provide reliable, affordable 

5 electricity for our members.

6 MS. SCHILLO: Hi, my name is Becky 

7 Schillo, and I'm here today representing myself, 

8 although I did get this really great T-shirt when 

9 I walked in, so thank you to Sierra Club.

10 And I'm here today to express my strong 

11 support for the EPA's proposed carbon pollution 

12 standard. This proposed standard represents a 

13 tremendous bold step towards addressing one of 

14 the most pressing challenges of our time, climate 

15 change.

16 According to the EPA's own data, existing 

17 power plants are responsible for adding more than 

18 2.3 billion tons of carbon and other toxic 

19 pollutants into the air. These pollutants not 

20 only harm the communities where the power plants 

21 are located but threaten to further destabilize 

22 our climate, leading to more extreme weather 
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1 events and stressing the very natural systems 

2 that we all depend on for things like clean air, 

3 clean water, and healthy food.

4 This September I'll be getting married, 

5 which I'm really excited about. And my future 

6 husband and I really look forward to starting a 

7 family together. But, truthfully, sometimes I 

8 really worry about what type of world we're 

9 creating for our children to grow up in and 

10 whether or not having children is a good decision 

11 at this time. Because I just worry that each day 

12 we're emitting more and more carbon into the 

13 atmosphere, and each day that we don't do 

14 something about climate change, the problem is 

15 going to get more and more difficult to tackle.

16 So, I just think, will this be a hot, 

17 crowded polluted world, and is it really, you 

18 know, something that we'd want to have children 

19 in. Or can we kind of come together and think 

20 about ways to stop this threat to stabilize our 

21 climate and to support health ecosystems? 

22 We know that climate change is occurring, 
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1 and we know there's things we can do about it. 

2 So I really praise the EPA's bold leadership in 

3 enacting these standards to address this critical 

4 issue.

5 Thank you.

6 MR. FELLNER: I just have one clarifying 

7 question on the simple cycle.

8 MR. CHRISPELL: Yes.

9 MR. FELLNER: Were you advocating --

10 excuse me -- just like the complete exemption or 

11 a higher run time limit? Because I note the rule 

12 has those two options, yes.

13 MR. CHRISPELL: Well, just to -- just to 

14 clarify -- I'm sorry. I think just leave that 

15 off the table at this point.

16 MR. FELLNER: Okay.

17 MR. CHRISPELL: I mean, if we're going to 

18 talk about coal-fired power plants and that kind 

19 of think, I think if -- those are usually peak 

20 plants anyhow, but if they're needed to run and 

21 there's a limit and they can't run, then here we 

22 go with brown and blackouts and --
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1 MR. FELLNER: Okay. I just 

2 (unintelligible).

3 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

4 Elizabeth Stark and Angie Viands.

5 MS. STARK: Hi, my name is Elizabeth 

6 Stark, and I'm from the State of Michigan. I 

7 have lived in Michigan for the majority of my 

8 life, and I have recently joined the work force 

9 after graduating from Michigan State University a 

10 couple weeks ago, which Michigan State 

11 coincidentally has -- is home to the nation's 

12 largest on-campus coal plant.

13 I was recently hired by the National 

14 Wildlife Federation to continue my work 

15 organizing the Michigan Students Sustainability 

16 Coalition, which is a growing stateside network 

17 of young leaders in our environmental movement. 

18 We have member from universities, community 

19 colleges, and high schools across the state.

20 So as a Coordinator of the MSSC, I 

21 represent a wide variety of students all united 

22 in making our state and nation a more sustainable 
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1 and healthy place to live. Almost all of these 

2 students that I've met are fighting dirty energy 

3 on their campuses and communities every day.

4 At my alma mater at MSU, for example, 

5 several students have been working tirelessly to 

6 transition away from our large, on-campus coal 

7 plant. Students are extremely concerned about 

8 health issues related to living by a coal plant, 

9 something that jeopardizes their life span every 

10 day as well as how our school is having an impact 

11 on the world around us. Many Spartans are sick 

12 of contributing to mountaintop removal in West 

13 Virginia and a changing global climate.

14 The students at Western Michigan are also 

15 fighting dirty energy in their back yards as we 

16 still deal with the aftermath of the tar sands 

17 pipeline spill in the Kalamazoo River. These 

18 students have been adamant about telling their 

19 representatives and peers that this sort of 

20 corporate unaccountability is not acceptable.

21 At virtually every campus in our state 

22 you can find students taking steps to improve the 
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1 futures of their communities by encouraging 

2 themselves and others to think and act more 

3 sustainably.

4 Although our voices are loud and our 

5 efforts are tireless, we find that many 

6 administrators, corporations, and institutions 

7 around us are not committed to making these to 

8 protect our livelihoods and futures.

9 As Michiganders we all take pride in the 

10 natural beauty of our state. It seems that no 

11 matter where you come from in Michigan, everybody 

12 has some pristine shorelines, secluded forests, 

13 or a patch of wildlife to brag about. Although 

14 these things are all highly valued, they continue 

15 to slip away from us more and more each day.

16 This year we experienced many weather 

17 anomalies, including a bizarrely warm winter, 

18 which was real upsetting to me -- I love the 

19 winter -- followed by late spring freezes. 

20 Clearly there's something very strange and wrong 

21 happening with the climate in our state, and 

22 unless we make drastic changes soon, our identity 
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1 as Michiganders will soon behind to fade away.

2 I am confident that the students in 

3 Michigan will continue to fight for what is right 

4 no matter the political context, but support from 

5 the EPA with stronger carbon plant rules and 

6 regulations will be critical to their success on 

7 their campuses and communities. We need these 

8 stronger federal regulations to emphasize the 

9 importance of our message to our communities and 

10 convince them to take more serious action.

11 It is extremely important to myself and 

12 to the students in Michigan that the EPA commits 

13 to finalize and publish this carbon rule this 

14 year. We also need the PA to tackle emissions 

15 from existing coal-fired plants to continue to 

16 decrease our nation's greenhouse gas emissions. 

17 These steps will ensure that future decisions 

18 about clean air are set on the right path.

19 The students of Michigan are counting on 

20 the EPA to help us win our battles and protect 

21 the health, future and identify of ourselves and 

22 our states. Thank you very much.
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1 MS. VIANDS: My name is Angie Viands, and 

2 the last name is spelled V-I-A-N-D-S.

3 MS. NOONAN: And I'm sorry I butchered 

4 that.

5 MS. VIANDS: Fine. And I'm a concerned 

6 citizen and an educator, and I'm here to support 

7 the carbon standard for new power plants. 

8 Our lack of action on the issue of 

9 climate change is, for me, a justice issue. It's 

10 not fair to future generations. I work with 

11 seventh and eighth graders to help them with 

12 different environmental project, including 

13 projects concerning climate change. And a lot of 

14 the youth that I work with, they are, frankly, 

15 very scared about climate change and the fact 

16 that we know it's a problem and we're not doing 

17 anything to address it. They're, frankly, very 

18 scared, and they don't really know what kind of a 

19 world they're going encounter when they get 

20 older.

21 I also -- a lot of friends that I have --

22 I'm in my 30's, and I have a lot of friends that 
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1 are couples. And a lot of my friends are 

2 choosing not to have children because they don't 

3 know what our world is going to be like, and they 

4 don't know if they want to bring children into a 

5 world in which we have pumped carbon dioxide into 

6 our atmosphere and, you know, our droughts, 

7 floods, lack of food, people migrating here and 

8 there, increased climate conflict, increased 

9 wars. And, frankly, the future looks very bleak 

10 right now just because we know that this is a 

11 problem and people are not doing anything to 

12 solve the problem.

13 So, I urge you to support a carbon 

14 standard for new power plants. It's especially 

15 not fair to people that are poor and those that 

16 live directly on the land. Those are the people 

17 that are least responsible for the problem, and 

18 they are going to suffer the most. Therefore, 

19 it's a justice issue, and it's frankly not fair.

20 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

21 Rose Gomez and Liz Uchiyama.

22 MS. GOMEZ: Hi, my name is Rose Gomez. I 
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1 am a Sierra Club volunteer, and I have been for a 

2 while. I have been a volunteer for -- when my 

3 son started kindergarten. He's now already 19 

4 years old, and he's been my motivating factor as 

5 to why I get involved and continue to get 

6 involved in these environmental issues that 

7 affect today and the future generations.

8 I think that it's our responsibility to 

9 act accordingly to do what we have to do today 

10 and not have those regrets in the future in which 

11 our children will ask us where were you, or what 

12 did you do when -- before it got to be this bad? 

13 So, I'm urging the U.S. EPA to move forward 

14 because there are alternative energies available 

15 in order not to depend like we have for too long 

16 a period of time with grave consequences on 

17 fossil fuels.

18 If there weren't alternatives, I mean, 

19 there would be lots of question marks as to when 

20 could we or if we could, so on and so forth; but 

21 there are so, so, so many alternatives in order 

22 to be able to move forward and use alternative 
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1 energy. And that's not for our sake. That's for 

2 my sake, your sake, your children's sake, and for 

3 this (unintelligible) backlash and have our 

4 children ask us, "Where were you? What did you 

5 do when --" and like I said, that -- my son is 

6 already grown already.

7 [Fire alarm notice.]

8 MS. NOONAN: No worries.

9 And following that direction, if there 

10 are speakers and strobes that interrupt 

11 testimony, we will certainly pause and wait for 

12 those events to pass. And I apologize for the 

13 interruption. Please continue.

14 MS. GOMEZ: Okay. The battles continue 

15 and I really hope that we're able to move forward 

16 and pass this new rule so that we can be proud of 

17 our decisions that we make today for a better 

18 future and for our kids.

19 MS. UCHIYAMA: Hello. My name is 

20 Elizabeth Uchiyama. It's U-C-H-I-Y-A-M-A.

21 I am a Sierra Club member, and I support 

22 the EPA, and I thank you for your hard work on 
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1 our behalf. 

2 I am also a business owner and I'm a 

3 corporate member of the Blues Foundation, so I 

4 speak for thousands of musicians and blues5 related music professionals when I say it is very 

6 important to us to have clean air and water.

7 I travel the globe as an ambassador for 

8 the United States, bringing the blues to 

9 countries as diverse as South Africa, Latvia, and 

10 all over Europe. I've been all over Mexico and 

11 Canada. And I say we need to look at ourselves 

12 as a global entity, not just as a United States. 

13 We are all interdependent and interconnected. 

14 And we can learn from other countries. We're a 

15 very young country.

16 I support this bill, but I think it could 

17 be stronger. I wish it were stronger. I really 

18 would like to see a limit on carbon emissions on 

19 existing as well as new constructions. I'd like 

20 to see limits on carbon emissions for 

21 construction within the next 12 months, not just 

22 things that are going to happen in 2014 and 
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1 beyond. We don't have any time to waste. We are 

2 now in a crisis.

3 As a musician traveling the United States 

4 by van, I don’t get to get into an airplane and 

5 fly off to events and pass over what's going on 

6 on the ground. I see it through the window of 

7 the van on a highway. I talk to the farmers. I 

8 talk to the people living in small towns. 

9 And I'm seeing firsthand people poisoned 

10 by toxic industrial waste in Mississippi, in 

11 Missouri, in Louisiana. I flew over the wetlands 

12 that were affected by the BP oil spill. And 

13 that's not the only oil spill. That's just one 

14 of many going on. There are hundreds of oil 

15 derricks in the Gulf of Mexico. There are tons 

16 and tons of pounds of industrial waste going into 

17 the Mississippi River. And all of our rivers are 

18 so sick it's poisoning people that are not here 

19 to testify.

20 I had a gig in Marshall, Michigan. I 

21 went and played a theater there. I can't go back 

22 there because their river is so polluted that 
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1 people there are getting leukemia and cancer in 

2 rates that are just too toxic for me. I sing for 

3 a living. I cannot risk my lungs. I cannot risk 

4 my endocrine system.

5 But there are children in these areas 

6 that are forced to play in toxic areas. They 

7 can't go to the beach by their river in Marshall, 

8 Michigan, anymore because they get sick from it. 

9 It really disturbs me. And I apologize for being 

10 emotional, but it makes me emotional.

11 Her little boy -- I decided not to have 

12 children because I couldn't see bringing more 

13 children into a world that we can't take care of.

14 My husband had four children with his 

15 first wife. Those kids are not going to have 

16 children because they are so concerned with how 

17 toxic we've made this world.

18 Of course, because I spend a lot of time 

19 in hotels, I watch lots of local television news 

20 and lots of local public television. And I've 

21 seen a program about industrial waste in Africa 

22 that was proposed that was caused by over fishing 
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1 of the sardine population. What people didn't 

2 realize is that sardines are part of the great 

3 web, a biosphere, that affects the entire world's 

4 ocean. Without the sardine population there to 

5 eat the plankton, the plankton over breeds and it 

6 causes a gas in the ocean that overheats the 

7 ocean and causes massive deaths of fish 

8 populations.

9 What does that mean to the rest of the 

10 world? It means that the people who would be 

11 eating that fish that is murdered by the 

12 overfishing of sardines now have to go in and eat 

13 the animals that should be all over the savannahs 

14 in Africa. And they can't find those animals. 

15 The population of lions is down to about 3,200 

16 creatures. 

17 I was in South Africa -- they took me on 

18 a safari as part of my tour. It was beautiful. 

19 I was so thrilled to be in actual Africa, looking 

20 at actual African animals, not in a zoo, not in 

21 Florida's go Africa, but real Africa. And they 

22 were apologizing to me, "We're very sorry, but 
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1 poachers have taken all of our big game." We 

2 found one elephant. 

3 If that doesn't bother you, then there's 

4 something wrong. This is a global problem. This 

5 is not just America. This is not just here in 

6 Illinois. This is not just Michigan.

7 Short-term solutions -- I'm sorry. I'm 

8 running over; aren't I?

9 MS. NOONAN: You have --

10 MS. UCHIYAMA: Short-term solutions offer 

11 long-term problems. I'd like to see the EPA act 

12 to limit fracking, to limit construction on 

13 canals and wetlands, and to stop the 

14 prolifigation [sic] of nuclear power plants 

15 faults.

16 MS. NOONAN: Thank you, ma'am. If you 

17 have written comments, we'll be happy to take 

18 them if there's additional things you wanted to 

19 say.

20 MS. UCHIYAMA: That kind of covered it. 

21 Thank you very much for listening. And thank you 

22 for being here today.
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1 MS. NOONAN: And thank you.

2 Jimmie Mitchell and John Phillips,

3 please.

4 MR. PHILLIPS: Good afternoon. I'm John 

5 Phillips. I'm a Sierra Club member. I also work 

6 at the University of Chicago.

7 MS. NOONAN: And you spell your name?

8 MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, P-H-I-double L-I-P-S.

9 MS. NOONAN: And John with an H or 

10 without?

11 MR. PHILLIPS: J-O-H-N.

12 MS. NOONAN: And I -- I was going to 

13 come down and listen, but I feel compelled to 

14 speak. And I'm not real organized perhaps, but 

15 I'm a chemical engineer by trade and profession. 

16 I've worked in chemical plants. I know the 

17 chemical industry a big, but now I work in a 

18 different spot. And people there at the 

19 University are saying to me they can't understand 

20 why people or what people don't understand about 

21 global warming, and people in denial of global 

22 warming are obviously on the lunatic fringe, as 
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1 they would term it. There's just so much 

2 evidence that I just -- I, personally, don't see 

3 how somebody could deny that it does exist and it 

4 is going on.

5 I think with respect to the fossil fuels, 

6 we now know what's going on when you dig up oil, 

7 when you dig up coal, and the pollution that goes 

8 on from that.

9 I, personally, try to fight global 

10 warming and the associated things by biking to 

11 work and taking public transportation to work. I 

12 do have a four-cylinder car but choose not to 

13 drive it to work and trying to limit my driving, 

14 and do other things like that.

15 When I do that, I feel like I have to 

16 hold my head up, and I have to be able to look at 

17 myself and say, hey, did you do the best you 

18 could to limit global warming? Did you do the 

19 best you could to be a good steward of the 

20 environment of our world. 

21 And I think we're at the point where we, 

22 as a world, have to look at what we're doing and 
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1 where we're going. We're engaged in a big 

2 experiment with our earth, without knowing what 

3 the end point is. I mean, this isn't something 

4 we're going to do in a test tube over here and 

5 when the test tube is all done, you know, you 

6 just throw it down the drain, or you put it in a 

7 little bottle and it goes away to an incinerator. 

8 It's our world. It's our life, and it's the only 

9 planet we've got, and we are stuck here. And 

10 we're working on an irreversible process of 

11 pumping CO2 in the atmosphere, and it isn't going 

12 to go away. And we are not slowing down ever 

13 since the Kyoto Protocol thing came over in 

14 Japan. We haven't slowed down one bit in our 

15 emissions. We haven't made one bit of progress 

16 as a world in slowing down what we're doing.

17 And I thank you for all that you've done 

18 so far as the EPA because I believe you have 

19 helped immeasurably in the American cleaning up 

20 of our world, our country, but I think we have to 

21 go further. I think we, as a country, have to 

22 show the world that we're serious and that we are 
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1 going to contribute and cut back and help our 

2 world be a better place. Thank you.

3 MR. MITCHELL: [Speaking foreign 

4 language.] My name is Jimmie Mitchell, M-I-T-C5 H-E-L-L. I'm the Director of Natural Resources 

6 for the Little River Band of Ottawa Indians in 

7 Lansing, Michigan. I am also a manager over a 

8 40-P programs in my tribe. And thank you for 

9 allowing me to be here today to testify.

10 I’m not testifying on behalf of my tribe 

11 or my position within my tribe but actually on --

12 because of a friend who couldn't be here today. 

13 And she searched long and hard to find somebody 

14 that would come and speak up for her, and I hope 

15 that I don't fail her in any way.

16 The world that we knew 177 years ago was 

17 much different than it is today. The world that 

18 we had here was beautiful and pristine. The 

19 things that we had were in abundance that 

20 provided so much for us. And now today we're 

21 worried about the fish that we feed our children 

22 as Indian people, about the species that are of 
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1 cultural significance to us, the wolf, the moose, 

2 our wild rice, some of the things that are 

3 required for us to maintain our culture identity.

4 And why it's so important to us as Indian 

5 people is because we lost (unintelligible). 

6 After we signed the treaty of 1836, it was within 

7 one generation of our people's existence after 

8 that treaty was signed that we lost everything. 

9 We lost all the trees. We lost the ability to 

10 drink the water, and we really became wards of 

11 the state, and we struggled, and we suffered for 

12 a very long time until such time that people 

13 forgot about us.

14 When they forgot about us, we maintained 

15 our identity as well as we could. And so the 

16 earth began to try and heal itself, and it has in 

17 some ways, but there is a second wave coming now. 

18 And it's in the form of a poison. It's poison 

19 that comes into the ground and comes into the 

20 water. And it comes in the form of the way that 

21 it affects the atmosphere and the ozone layer. 

22 And the things that we rely on again to maintain 
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1 our -- this identity, our kinship with mother 

2 earth is being degraded before our eyes. And so 

3 now we're becoming fearful to feed our children 

4 that fish, or to take that wild rice, or to even 

5 harvest certain animals because we know that the 

6 existence that they have now is so fragile that 

7 they're on the brink of extinction.

8 And so I applaud the measures today that

9 the EPA is taking and that -- your request for 

10 this standard. And in speaking -- having the 

11 pleasure in the past of speaking with EPA 

12 Administrator Johnson and having the ability to 

13 ask questions of him at a time during his tenure, 

14 I asked him, "Why would the EPA consider taking a 

15 known pollutant like mercury and trying to 

16 classify it as a non-hazardous air pollutant?" 

17 And anybody that knows Stephen would know that he 

18 would smile because he was a scientist. And he -

19 - in a way that he tried to make things happen 

20 during his administration he said, "We don't have 

21 any standards now. And we didn't have any 

22 standards before. And it was our ability to 
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1 begin somewhere." It was our choice to start 

2 with something because we need to start 

3 somewhere.

4 So maybe this is the beginning of that. 

5 Maybe this is the beginning of looking at 

6 creating the standard for this particular future 

7 proposal of these affects on our planet, but 

8 again, I think a lot of people have said here 

9 maybe we need to take a step back and reevaluate 

10 what's currently happening, what's been 

11 continuing to happen, and those things aren't 

12 going to change.

13 The effects of what's happened up to this 

14 date -- if we stop polluting today, it will take 

15 a thousand years -- a thousand years before those 

16 facts will finally diminish to the point where 

17 the earth can heal itself again. And so we all 

18 need to start somewhere.

19 And the responsibility, again, goes back 

20 to all of us as people because I think if we all 

21 think back what's going on in our own respective 

22 homes, how many of the wall works that we have 
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1 plugged in the wall that are knowingly passing 

2 energy through them. And for what? Maybe 

3 nothing. Maybe it's just sitting there with 

4 nothing even attached to it.

5 So those are the types of things that we 

6 all need to take responsibility for, not just put 

7 it at the feet of the EPA, or the government, or 

8 the coal-fired power plant owners, but ourselves 

9 because it's going to take us all to create the 

10 solutions for this.

11 Thank you.

12 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

13 Okay. Marie Socha and Xhoana Ahmeti.

14 MS. SOCHA: Hi, my name is Marie Socha, a 

15 recent college graduate, and recently -- and I've 

16 been involved in anti coal efforts for a while. 

17 I'm learning more than ever about coal and how it 

18 pollutes the more that I'm surprised about how 

19 we've regulated it, and now that we've defeated 

20 Fisk and Crawford, we can breathe easier.

21 But -- and because they had been -- they 

22 were grandfathered in, we didn't have a chance to 
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1 really get them on setting a standard, but now we 

2 have the chance to set the standard and have a 

3 historic moment of regulating carbon for the 

4 first time in history. And this historic moment 

5 is such a big thing for the EPA and for -- and I 

6 -- I want to support it and to encourage it to 

7 being pushed forward.

8 For the first time, I left the country 

9 this January, and I went to Peru, to Lima, Peru, 

10 to work on a -- our bio culture project. And I 

11 experienced some surprises there. The more I 

12 learned about it, trying to grow food there --

13 there was very limited water because their --

14 their waters are gotten from this glacier. And 

15 because of climate change, the river is really 

16 nothing now, and they're not going to have any 

17 water from this glacier by 2050 they estimate.

18 And this is because of climate change, 

19 and so, this is a really urgent thing that we 

20 really consider the emissions of carbon. This is 

21 a historic moment, and I hope that the EPA will 

22 really step up and really push this over.
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1 Thank you.

2 MS. NOONAN: Thanks.

3 MS. AHMETI: Hi, my name is Xhoana 

4 Ahmeti. It's spelled X-H-O-A-N-A, space, A-H-M5 E-T-I. I am a second year at DePaul University. 

6 I am an environmental public policy major, and 

7 I've been working with Chicago Youth Climate 

8 Coalition as well as in connection with the 

9 Sierra Club. And I think for the past six 

10 months, and I'd just like to say that it's 

11 changed my life, and I feel like we have a lot to 

12 learn from building community and not only 

13 building community with other privileged citizens 

14 like ourselves but also I think the global 

15 community and how our actions affect its faith 

16 and the faith of people we'll probably never 

17 meet, are related to, whose pain we'll never 

18 feel. And that includes names will never be 

19 known.

20 And I'd like to encourage the passing of 

21 this law on the basis of community and on the 

22 basis of justice because I feel like I have 
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1 learned a lot about those two things in the past 

2 six months that I spent fighting our enormous and 

3 perceivable threat.

4 And I hope that you will consider the 

5 fate of not only ourselves and our interests but 

6 those of people we don't even know.

7 Thank you.

8 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

9 We're going to take a five-minute break, 

10 and we'll come back after that.

11 [Break from 6:40 p.m. to 6:50 p.m.]

12 MS. NOONAN: Could Caty Bautista and Rich 

13 Summins -- and in case you've just arrived, 

14 you'll get five minutes to speak. Please both 

15 come and sit at the table and just stay there 

16 until both of you are completed speaking. We may 

17 ask you a question or two. We may not. Welcome. 

18 And thank you for coming.

19 And spell your name into the -- say your 

20 name, your affiliation and spell your full name, 

21 if possible.

22 MS. BAUTISTA: Okay. My name is Caty, C-
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1 A-T-Y, Bautista, B-A-U-T-I-S-T-A. And I’m a 

2 volunteer with the Sierra Club and just an 

3 environmentally conscious person, too.

4 So, living in south Chicago, I've always 

5 been surrounded by one polluting industry after 

6 another. The list is long. I'll just name a 

7 few: landfills, a power company which while 

8 based in Indiana is just a stone's throw away 

9 from my neighborhood, an old petroleum coal 

10 plant, huge stockpiles of coal which are 

11 literally in my backyard, the remnants of three 

12 retired steel mills which wreaked environmental 

13 havoc during their heyday. 

14 It wasn't until I was older that I 

15 realized the serious health effects of living in 

16 such close proximity to so many high polluting 

17 companies. It's common to walk down the street 

18 and overhear that someone has recently been 

19 diagnosed with cancer, that someone's child was 

20 taken to the hospital due to their asthma. There 

21 are alarming high rates of both these health 

22 issues prevalent in south Chicago.
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1 One would imagine that strides would be 

2 made to improve the environmental health of the 

3 community, but businesses and local government 

4 move away from introducing plans that would 

5 continue to negatively affect the health and well 

6 being of my neighborhood.

7 The sad fact is that south Chicago 

8 continues to battle with companies that generate 

9 tons of pollution, companies like a cement plant 

10 that would add tons and tons of added pollution, 

11 companies like a coal gasification plant that 

12 would also add tons and tons of pollution.

13 I'm sharing with you this brief and sad 

14 overview of the environmental state of south 

15 Chicago because I think it highlights the 

16 importance of having regulations and limits in 

17 place to keep pollution levels from reaching such 

18 deadly levels. It's often communities like south 

19 Chicago because it's a low income community, 

20 because it has a working class status that it is 

21 targeted and allowed to be exploited, that it is 

22 acceptable for the people in my community to get 
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1 sick, that the companies can make a profit.

2 Adding caps to limit the amount of carbon 

3 power plants can produce is a great stride in the 

4 right direction. I hope this is just the 

5 beginning of the EPA's effort to protect not only 

6 marginalized communities like south Chicago but 

7 our environment as a whole.

8 Thank you.

9 MR. SUMMINS: My name is Rich Summins. 

10 That's S-U-M-M-I-N-S. And I’m a member of the 

11 Sierra Club as well.

12 I apologize if my remarks seem redundant. 

13 I haven't been here for most of the other 

14 speakers. I think what's clearly at stake here 

15 is the limits on carbon pollution, carbon being a 

16 global-warming gas.

17 I am not a climatologist, and so I ask 

18 myself: In this issue, who do you trust? Who 

19 are you going to believe? There's a great deal 

20 of smoke, literally and figuratively.

21 So I went looking for the scientists who 

22 have supported the theory of global warming and 
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1 those who have speared it. And here's just a 

2 little bit of what I found.

3 Right now the American Lung Association,

4 which has been combating lung disease for over a 

5 hundred years, they've urged their members to 

6 come to this hearing today and to fight for the 

7 protection against power plant pollution. The 

8 World Health Organization, which has been in 

9 business for more than 60 years, led the fight 

10 against smallpox and currently is the United 

11 Nations main health organization -- I say it's 

12 the health organization -- said in a recent 

13 article on their website: Climate changes over 

14 recent decades have probably already affected

15 some health outcomes. There is now recognition 

16 that global climate change poses risks to human 

17 population growth.

18 And I'm sure you're familiar with the 

19 Interim Governmental Panel on Climate Change. I 

20 won't bore you with all the details. I will say 

21 there have been some very rational criticisms of 

22 the Intergovernmental Panel's on Climate Changes 
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1 conclusions, but on March 13th, 2010, an open 

2 letter signed by over 250 scientists in the 

3 United States was sent to U.S. Federal Agencies 

4 that -- quote -- none of the handful of 

5 misstatements out of hundreds and hundreds of 

6 unchallenged statements remotely undermines the 

7 conclusion that warming of the climate system is 

8 unequivocal and that most of the observed 

9 increase in global average temperatures since the 

10 mid 20th century is very likely to have observed 

11 increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas 

12 concentrations. 

13 So even those people who agree with the 

14 criticisms still agree -- or agree with the -- or 

15 have -- I'm sorry -- disagreements with the 

16 conclusions still overall support the 

17 conclusions.

18 The IPCC has been endorsed by, among 

19 other scientific bodies, a joint science academy 

20 statement in 2001, Canadian Foundation for 

21 Climate and Atmospheric Scientists, the Canadian 

22 Meteorological and Oceanographic Society, the 
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1 European Jewish Scientists Union, the 

2 International Council for Science, and the 

3 National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, 

4 the United States National Research Council, and 

5 the Network of African Science Academies.

6 I think that's pretty sound backing of 

7 the global warming conclusion by the scientific 

8 community.

9 Now, let's take a look at some of the 

10 global-warming disputers. There is the George C. 

11 Marshall Institute which has received $715,000 

12 from Exxon Mobil since 1998. There is the 

13 Competitive Enterprise Institute. Let's see 

14 where their funding's coming from. It's coming 

15 from Texaco, Texaco Foundation. The American 

16 Petroleum Institute of the Arch Coal and Exxon 

17 Mobil Groups. There is the Center for the Study 

18 of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change. They also 

19 received contributions from Exxon Mobil. Who 

20 else have given money to them? Oh, and also the 

21 Green Earth Society, which is a group formed by 

22 the Western Fuels Association. And, finally, 
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1 everybody's favorite: The Heartland Institute. 

2 The Heartland Institute recently added the 

3 Illinois Coal Association as a sponsor of their 

4 conclusions, and, of course, Exxon Mobil.

5 So you can take the conclusions of the 

6 respected scientific community or you can accept 

7 the conclusions of people who are being paid for 

8 these conclusions by energy means.

9 Thank you.

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both.

11 Brandon Bodor and Kelly Mitchell.

12 MS. MITCHELL: Hi, thank you. My name's 

13 Kelly Mitchell. I'm a Coal Campaigner for 

14 Greenpeace, based here in Chicago. 

15 First off, I just want to thank you for 

16 sitting through what's probably 11 hours now of 

17 testimony under fluorescent lighting. That gives 

18 me a headache quite often in the office. So I 

19 applaud you for being here. And I do hope that a 

20 lot of the kind of praise and hope that's been 

21 conveyed in today's comments have made that 

22 process a little bit easier because, you know, 
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1 today's an important day, and this rule is an 

2 important rule. Congress has failed the American 

3 public for years, and EPA is now taking long 

4 overdue action to limit CO2, a greenhouse gas 

5 that's responsible already for extreme weather, 

6 flooding, drought, and dangerous and even deadly 

7 heat waves across the country.

8 However, this rule has some shortcomings. 

9 I'd only address it as current -- or, sorry, new 

10 sources of CO2 emissions, and it has some serious 

11 loopholes. Included in those are an exemption 

12 for biomass plants which can spew out just as 

13 much CO2 as coal plants, and the sort of 10-year 

14 free pass for corporate polluters that promise to 

15 invest in mythical carbon capture and 

16 sequestration technology. The limits of this 

17 rule or too low to address natural gas plants. 

18 And as we all know, cheap natural gas is fueling 

19 record investments in new power plants, 

20 pipelines, and wells that contribute to climate 

21 change across -- throughout their entire life 

22 cycle.
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1 You know, a strong rule that eliminates 

2 these loopholes is going to set an incredible 

3 precedent for a rule to tackle existing sources 

4 of climate pollution, something that's absolutely 

5 necessary if we want to avoid the worst 

6 consequences of global warming.

7 I also won't pretend that the getting to 

8 that is going to be an easy task. The anti9 science wing of our federal government has pretty 

10 much done everything in their power to paint EPA 

11 as a boogey man. They're painting the life12 saving health and environmental regulations that 

13 you are working on as government overreach. 

14 But I hope you also know that you are not 

15 alone in standing up to forces that would put 

16 industry profit over the health and well being of 

17 American families.

18 Across the country right now communities 

19 are standing up to the corporate polluters in 

20 their back yard. I'm sure you've heard a couple 

21 instances today, people talk about the Fisk and 

22 Crawford coal plants here in Chicago. Those
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1 plants are closing this year because of the 

2 resolve, because of the sweat, and because of the 

3 tears of communities who are tired of living in 

4 the shadow of smokestacks, you know, and the face 

5 of industry propaganda, of intimidation, of junk 

6 science, of bought politicians. Communities 

7 across this country are demanding clean air and 

8 clean water.

9 So on behalf of the 300,000 Greenpeace 

10 members here in the U.S., I'm calling on you to 

11 find the same resolve as regular people in this 

12 country, as community activists, and to stand up 

13 to corporate polluters because a crisis as urgent 

14 as climate change requires nothing less than bold 

15 and principled action. And I promise you if 

16 you're closing these loopholes and getting to 

17 work on existing sources of pollution, history is 

18 going to look back on this moment and smile.

19 So thank you for being here, and thank 

20 you for listening to these comments. And I look 

21 forward to seeing what comes in the following 

22 months. Thank you.
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1 MR. BODOR: Good evening. I hope to be 

2 just as passionate, perhaps not as eloquent, and 

3 I have also prepared a speech that perhaps is not 

4 as intelligent either, but good evening. Thanks 

5 for the opportunity to speak to you this evening.

6 My name is Brandon Bodor. I probably 

7 spent the past seven years on active duty in the 

8 United States Army. My military service included 

9 two combat deployments, one each in Iraq and 

10 Afghanistan. In 2007 to 2008 I spent a long 15 

11 months fighting in support of Operation Iraqi 

12 Freedom during the heart of what is now commonly 

13 referred to as the surge of troops to quell the 

14 fierce sectarian violence that plagued the 

15 country at that time.

16 And I recently returned from a year in 

17 Kandahar where I contributed to the strategic 

18 troop increase designed to turn the tide of the 

19 Taliban insurgency across southern Afghanistan.

20 I continue to serve just up the street at 

21 Fort Sheridan in Illinois as a U.S. Army 

22 Reservist. So, I’m here today to speak on behalf 
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1 of Operation Free. I think there are a few other 

2 Operation Free folks who spoke with you today. 

3 It's a dedicated coalition of veterans who 

4 recognize that our nation's fossil fuel addiction 

5 and contribution to climate change threaten our 

6 national security. And it's with that basic 

7 premise, that basic premise of mitigating 

8 national security threats that I’m here to 

9 testify today.

10 I'm going to share with you just one 

11 anecdote. I have several, but I'll share with 

12 you just one anecdote because I understand I'm 

13 limited by time.

14 From my military experiences that have 

15 shaped my understanding are the implications of 

16 our reliance on fossil fuels. So, after a year 

17 of touring my platoon across the German 

18 countryside where I was stationed back in 2006, 

19 we deployed in 2007 for a 15-month combat tour in 

20 Iraq. So to refresh your memory, at that time 

21 the level of violence in Iraq was at an all-time 

22 high. Sunni and Shiite extremists groups were 
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1 not only killing each other at alarming rates, 

2 but they were also killing Americans at alarming 

3 rates, particularly in Bagdad.

4 My platoon was based, as it turns out, in 

5 an extremely volatile neighborhood known as Dora 

6 in southern Bagdad, which unfortunately still 

7 remains a rather volatile neighborhood. And back 

8 then it was one of the most volatile in the city. 

9 So my men and I patrolled the streets 

10 every day. And one thing was undeniably and 

11 unfortunately clear, and that's that the U.S. 

12 military has an intense reliance on fuel, 

13 particularly on diesel generators. 

14 So at the time this was General Petraeus' 

15 counter insurgency model to set up a series of 

16 small outposts which was an extremely effective 

17 operation, and it's kind of what we had been 

18 doing during the surge in Kandahar as well.

19 But in order to do that, it does require 

20 -- I mean we have to power all those small 

21 outposts, and so that takes -- you know, what the 

22 Army has now is diesel generators, so, you know, 
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1 that relies on -- in Iraq alone -- ground convoys 

2 and in some cases in Afghanistan, some air 

3 convoys that can do the same thing, but the 

4 common theme there is that we have an intense 

5 reliance on supporting those bases with diesel 

6 fuel.

7 So what's the result of that? Well, I 

8 was on multiple convoys along with a lot of my 

9 friends. Some of my friends were injured gravely 

10 on some of those convoys. And really, we just 

11 must be cognizant that the enemy is not dumb by 

12 any means. We fight a smart and adaptable enemy 

13 in Iraq. You know, it doesn't really matter what 

14 the insurgent group's name is, they will follow 

15 all of the patterns that we're doing. And, of 

16 course, if we have the large fuel trucks that 

17 have to go from one point to another, we really 

18 can't -- I mean, we can be as sneaky and, you 

19 know, we can change those patterns as much as we 

20 want, but we still have to drive on the roads to 

21 get there, so it's -- and we set patterns, and 

22 the enemy adapts to those patterns. But just as 
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1 the enemy adapts, we need to be just as adaptable 

2 with new, unique ways to power our force.

3 So the military recognizes this grave 

4 threat to our security posed by America's 

5 outdated energy policies. Just for some numbers, 

6 we send over one billion dollars a day overseas 

7 for our oil, funding regimes that more often than 

8 not don't share our values.

9 So the military is the biggest purchaser 

10 of energy in the country. And the volatility of 

11 oil prices can certainly compromise mission 

12 readiness.

13 There are several estimates out there. 

14 And I know folks mentioned Heritage and some 

15 other groups. And groups on either side have 

16 different numbers for this, but conservative --

17 you know, the estimates indicate that for every 

18 one dollar increase in the price of a barrel of 

19 oil, the Defense Department incurs an additional 

20 $130 million in fuel cost.

21 If we had an extra $130 million to spend 

22 on equipment and in training -- I mean if -- just 
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1 put that in perspective, an additional $130 

2 million to prepare for our national security.

3 MS. NOONAN: Your time.

4 MR. BODOR: Okay. So I want to emphasize 

5 that oil is not the only problem. All fossil 

6 fuels, including coal, pose a threat to our 

7 security by disrupting our climate. 

8 We must remember that environmental 

9 issues such as drought, famine, migration, rising 

10 sea levels, and natural disasters caused by 

11 climate change pose a threat to military 

12 installations and raise demand for military 

13 assistance.

14 We can all be part of this fight here at 

15 home. The Defense Department's already using 

16 wind and solar to power many of our military 

17 bases. And there's a bold DOD-wide goal to 

18 deploy three gigawatts of renewable energy, 

19 including solar, wind, biomass, and geothermal on 

20 a variety of bases by 2025, enough to power 

21 750,000 homes.

22 MS. NOONAN: And we're going to -- if we 
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1 could have the rest of your testimony as written 

2 comments, that would great.

3 MR. BODOR: I just have two paragraphs 

4 left, so.

5 MS. NOONAN: I apologize. We've been 

6 consistent with everybody. So --

7 MR. BODOR: Okay. That's great. Thanks 

8 for your time.

9 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Kathryn Norregaard?

10 MS. NORREGAARD: Hi, my name is Kathryn 

11 Norregaard. I am a resident of Wheaton, 

12 Illinois, a nursing graduate of Moody Bible 

13 Institute here in Chicago. I'm here with the 

14 Evangelical Environmental Network as well as the 

15 Young Evangelicals for Climate Action. And I'm 

16 offering this testimony on behalf of our 

17 President Reverend Mitchell C. Hescox.

18 The simple fact is that if man is not 

19 able to solve his ecological problems, then man's 

20 resources are going to die. Noted evangelical 

21 Francis Schaeffer correctly stated those words in 

22 1970, and they remain true today. The earth has 
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1 a fever, and the fever's impacts have reached 

2 epidemic proportions, threatening all of us. 

3 Simply put, climate change is the greatest moral 

4 challenge of our time.

5 Climate change resulting from carbon 

6 pollution makes bad things worse. It intensifies 

7 natural processes, making natural events 

8 unnatural or extreme, and hits the most 

9 vulnerable the hardest.

10 These threats are not some future event. 

11 They are happening now, and God's children across 

12 this planet are crying for our help. 

13 The Cape Town Commitment issued by the 

14 Lausanne Movement founded by Billy Graham and 

15 John Stott, both internationally respected 

16 evangelical leaders, recognizes the need for 

17 climate change action as does the Evangelical 

18 Network Micah Challenge.

19 Victor Mughogho, the Executive Director 

20 of Eagle's Relief and Development in Malawi, 

21 recently visited the United States for my 

22 organization's global day of prayer for creation 
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1 care and the poor.

2 During his presentation Victor shared 

3 exactly what climate scientists have predicted 

4 for years. Victor told us how for their parents 

5 the rainy season was so predictable that they 

6 knew how to plant on October 15th every year. 

7 They planted and the rains fell -- predictable, 

8 stable, and reliable. And they grew so much food 

9 they had an overabundance. 

10 In their parents' lives they expected 

11 only major drought. But since 1970 droughts, 

12 floods, and unpredictable rains have become the 

13 new normal, exactly what the scientists said 

14 climate change would do, wreaking havoc for poor 

15 farmers.

16 2011 was the fourth consecutive drought 

17 that's plagued Malawi. Moreover, when the rains 

18 come, they are unpredictable. Victor told us 

19 that last year the farmers planted and the crops 

20 failed. Planted again, failed again. Planted a 

21 third time, and they failed a third time.

22 Hunger, malnutrition, the stunting of 
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1 children are the results. Victor reminded us 

2 that such stunting harms a person's brain 

3 development, further jeopardizing their future, 

4 and that of Malawi.

5 The United States does not escape either. 

6 2011 was the wildest year on record for extreme 

7 weather in the U.S. with 99 major events. 

8 Insurance losses in 2011 were the second 

9 costliest on record. Only 2005 with Hurricane 

10 Katrina were higher.

11 The trend continues in 2012 being the 

12 year without winter. Extreme winter weather 

13 appeared to be drawing attention to the changing 

14 climate.

15 Science now affirms that North America's 

16 summer heat waves and changing precipitation are 

17 very, very likely resulting from anthropogenic 

18 climate change. In other words, the extreme 

19 weather events of the past several years are 

20 typical of climate change and very likely will 

21 continue.

22 Others presenting today will testify or 
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1 maybe have testified to coal-produced 

2 electricity, the largest source of carbon 

3 pollution. And those are all true, however, my 

4 testimony is the moral cause for the poor. 

5 Someone must stand and speak for those without a 

6 voice and those who are most impacted by carbon 

7 pollution yet the least responsible for its toxic 

8 emissions.

9 There are many Christians in the U.S. who 

10 are concerned about what happens to poor people 

11 in poor countries. The new source standard for 

12 carbon pollution remains a first step and only a 

13 first step. We need a clean energy revolution 

14 whose rate of change must be incredibly fast. A 

15 gradual transition will not provide adequate 

16 means to protect public health from well17 documented fossil fuel consequences.

18 Our nation must empower a second greatest 

19 generation, similar to the mobilization required 

20 for overcoming Fascism. Provide the leadership 

21 for a clean energy revolution.

22 Clean energy and reducing carbon 
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1 pollution, according to the respected business 

2 consulting firm McKinsey and Co., will require a 

3 tenfold increase in carbon productivity. This 

4 will require a united effort of government, 

5 business, and all society working together, 

6 including comprehensive energy climate change 

7 legislation.

8 This is just a springboard, this new 

9 source performance standard for carbon pollution, 

10 but we urge the administration, Congress, 

11 industry, and the American people to work toward 

12 a market-based solution to reduce current carbon 

13 pollution and ensure a safer and healthier world 

14 for all of God's children.

15 Thank you.

16 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. This concludes 

17 the registered speakers. And we would be happy 

18 to take testimony from anyone else here who has 

19 not already testified.

20 Okay. We plan to stay until 8:00, and 

21 we'll just be here in the front or hanging around 

22 if people who have changed their mind or if 
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1 others arrive. So the hearing will be in recess 

2 until such time as someone else would like to 

3 speak.

4 [Break from 7:14 p.m. to 7:19 p.m.]

5 MS. NOONAN: Mike Johnson. And would 

6 anyone care to join Mr. Johnson at the table?

7 [No response.]

8 MS. NOONAN: So you get five minutes. 

9 The yellow light will come on when you have one 

10 minute left.

11 If you could say your name, your 

12 affiliation, and spell your name, that would be 

13 great.

14 MR. JOHNSON: Sure. I'm Mike Johnson, M15 I-K-E, J-O-H-N-S-O-N. And I'm with Greenpeace.

16 Okay. Well, thanks for this opportunity 

17 to testify. I testify here before you on behalf 

18 of 300,000 Greenpeace supporters nationwide to 

19 say no to corporate welfare for polluters and no 

20 to selling public health to the highest bidder.

21 We're here this evening to talk about how 

22 much pollution we, as Americans, are willing to 
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1 allow new power plants to emit into the air we 

2 breathe. The stakes could not be higher as 

3 public health, livable climate, and generations4 old livelihoods hang in the balance.

5 Recent victories in securing retirement 

6 commitments for aging coal-fired plants is 

7 bringing sweet relief for millions of Americans, 

8 but yet here in Chicago even as federal and state 

9 lawsuits could not force the Fisk and Crawford 

10 plants into compliance after endless legal 

11 maneuvers by Midwest Generation and its parent 

12 company, International. While Fisk and Crawford 

13 are existing facilities, they illustrate that an 

14 ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure for 

15 residents and regulators alike, when it comes to 

16 promulgating effective NSPS guidelines.

17 Simply put, the plants' illegal 

18 operations would never have taken place had their 

19 Title 5 permit not allowed the coal plant -- or 

20 not allowed the plant to burn coal. A strong 

21 NSPS that prohibits coal-fired generation and 

22 does not grant exemptions for carbon capture and 
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1 sequestration can make these stories and related 

2 unnecessary suffering a thing of the past.

3 Thankfully, after more than 10 years of 

4 lawsuits, protests, and civil disobedience Fisk 

5 and Crawford here in Chicago will finally close 

6 this September; but in the meantime more than 400 

7 Chicagoans have died waiting for justice. All 

8 the while Edison is leading the charge to 

9 invalidate the cross-state air pollution that 

10 after 35 years finally holds all generators 

11 accountable for their SO2 and NOx emissions.

12 Though long overdue and perhaps not as 

13 ambitious as it could have been, EPA is to be 

14 congratulated on promulgating this landmark 

15 public health protection. At the same time legal 

16 challenges by corporate polluters jeopardize this 

17 gain.

18 In that spirit we call upon the EPA to 

19 proceed in adopting stringent new standards for 

20 new power plants to honor those who lost their 

21 lives and to protect the health of the living by 

22 taking common sense action to prevent toxic 
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1 disasters from the start.

2 Now is the time to say no more ash ponds, 

3 no more supporting an industry driven by 

4 wholesale destruction and export of the Rockies 

5 and Appalachians. Now is the time to start a 

6 transition to carbon-free, conflict-free, home7 grown, 100 percent renewable energy, and a strong 

8 NSPS can help get us there. 

9 True success requires recognizing that 

10 CCS is a false solution and a losing prospect for 

11 ratepayers and the environment. The cancellation 

12 of FutureGen and Ameren's now-retired Meredosia 

13 Plant, Edwardsport and IGCC's billion dollar cost 

14 overrun, and others show that these projects make 

15 no economic sense and have yet to be proven at 

16 the scale.

17 Industry repeatedly argues that it can 

18 self-regulate while blackmailing the American 

19 public, regulators, and elected officials with 

20 its threats of job loss, power disruption, and 

21 eroding tax bases. Enough is enough. Far from 

22 deserving sympathy, corporate polluters have 
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1 stated the case for regulation about as well as 

2 any advocacy group could through an atrociously 

3 negative example.

4 The recent energy sector examples of BP, 

5 Chesapeake, and Ameren hardly can inspire 

6 confidence; and in fact, strongly suggest that 

7 the industry cannot be trusted to protect public 

8 health above polluter profits.

9 In fact, trusting industry in these 

10 instances led respectively to the largest 

11 environmental disaster in American history, 

12 rampant pollution of groundwater in one of the 

13 largest corporate implosions and energy crises in 

14 American history.

15 Until coal pollution is against the law 

16 for new generation, companies like Leucadia will 

17 continue to abuse public funds to subsidize dirty 

18 coal development and forcibly deliver above19 market price natural gas to utility customers.

20 Companies like Duke Energy will continue 

21 to use billions of dollars of ratepayer money to 

22 build unnecessary plants incapable of delivering 
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1 the promised carbon capture they used to win 

2 regulatory support.

3 In the end promised benefits -- promised 

4 environmental benefits are not being delivered to 

5 those who are truly financing this development, 

6 ratepayers and taxpayers, both of whom bear the 

7 brunt of the related health impacts.

8 At a time when cleaner power is cheaper 

9 than coal-fired generation carbon limits through 

10 NSPS basically only codify what the market has 

11 said loud and clear, that new coal does not make 

12 sense to build. While many banks will not 

13 finance new coal-fired generation, some new coal 

14 plants are still being built, including the 

15 Prairie State Energy Campus right here in 

16 Illinois.

17 Municipal customers across the state will 

18 soon be paying above-market rates for the power 

19 generated from the plant while those living near 

20 the plant bear the burden of pollution. And NSPS 

21 that specific prohibits coal-fired generation, 

22 including plants hawking the snake oil of carbon 
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1 capture could not send a clearer signal to the 

2 market.

3 In solidarity with many of the other 

4 groups who have testified here this evening we 

5 demand better from the nation's power generators, 

6 especially as communities across the Midwest and 

7 the nation choose clean power and -- not or --

8 cost --

9 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Johnson --

10 MR. JOHNSON: -- savings.

11 MS. NOONAN: -- your time has expired.

12 MR. JOHNSON: Okay.

13 MS. NOONAN: We'd be happy to take the 

14 rest of your comments.

15 MR. JOHNSON: Okay. Thank you.

16 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. Margaret 

17 Goldstein.

18 MS. GOLDSTEIN: I support the 

19 Environmental Protection Agency's proposal for 

20 first ever national emission limits for carbon 

21 pollution from new power plants. 

22 In 2007 a Supreme Court ruling requires 
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1 the EPA to deal with carbon pollution. And 

2 several states and countries are already 

3 eliminating carbon emissions from power plants. 

4 The consequence of not controlling carbon 

5 emissions is global warming with all its adverse 

6 effects.

7 Do you want this?

8 MS. NOONAN: That would be great. Thank 

9 you.

10 Are there other speakers who have not yet 

11 testified who would like to come forward and give 

12 testimony?

13 MS. BELL: Yes.

14 MS. NOONAN: Great. And state your name, 

15 affiliation, and spell your name.

16 MS. BELL: Sure. My name is Jessica 

17 Bell, B-E-L-L. I currently work at the 

18 University of Chicago's Social (Unintelligible) 

19 Club, and in the fall I'm going to be doing my 

20 Ph.D. in Environmental Studies at Michigan State.

21 I support this rule mainly because I feel 

22 that there has been a false economy set up in the 
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1 media and among certain political groups that the 

2 economy and the environment are mutually 

3 exclusive. And that is not the case based on any 

4 research that I, personally, have seen or that I 

5 am working on in my Ph.D. I'm thinking of a 

6 current study that showed, for example, in 

7 western states that the more land protected in 

8 that state actually leads to more jobs due to 

9 tourism and wilderness exploration.

10 I am also willing to say that this is a 

11 long rigid rule that I really support that you're 

12 finally taking the first step in addressing 

13 climate change, which I see as inextricably 

14 linked to issues of national security, food 

15 security, and other vital issues.

16 And, again, as scientist, I feel that the 

17 science on climate change is very clear and that 

18 taking the first step is absolutely essential.

19 Thank you.

20 MS. NOONAN: Thank you.

21 MS. FISHER: Hi, my name is Allison 

22 Fisher, and I live here in Chicago.
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1 MS. NOONAN: Can you spell your last 

2 name?

3 MS. FISHER: F-I-S-H-E-R.

4 And I want to thank you guys so much for 

5 spending all this time today to listening and 

6 hearing these stories. It means so much to all 

7 of us to know that our stories and our 

8 experiences are being heard and want to thank you 

9 so much for posing and also give my support for 

10 this rule.

11 I'm originally from Long Island, New 

12 York, which -- and I spent so many wonderful, 

13 wonderful summers growing up on the beach -- go 

14 there with my family, play in the ocean, walk on 

15 the rocks, just -- it was beautiful. And, you 

16 know, there was a community that was there so we 

17 would have barbecues, and we would sit down and 

18 have big family meals, and learn how to swim. 

19 And where I grew up is actually just 10 

20 miles away from that beach. And I think I was in 

21 middle school and I learned that global warming 

22 means that that barrier beach that I grew up on, 
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1 had all these beautiful, wonderful memories 

2 wouldn't exist with global warming. And that 

3 that -- all those beautiful summers, all those 

4 beautiful places, memories, and that community 

5 wouldn't be there anymore.

6 And this past summer when the hurricane 

7 was going over Long Island was the first time 

8 that I actually realized that it was possible in 

9 my lifetime that that beach wouldn't be there 

10 anymore. And what was even worse is that the 

11 damage from that hurricane, and the damage from 

12 future hurricanes, and damage from future 

13 flooding, the cost that it would be to my 

14 community, to all those folks that actually don't 

15 have flood insurance.

16 And my parents actually have gone through 

17 multiple home insurance brokers who keep on not 

18 insuring them just because they're so close to 

19 the floodplain.

20 And knowing that, my parents would be 

21 fine. They're both folks who've worked for the 

22 government for years, have good government 
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1 pensions, so if our community isn't there 

2 anymore, they could always move. Yes, we will 

3 have memories. We won't have the house that they 

4 lived in for 30 years, but they can move. And 

5 it's knowing that others in my community aren't 

6 going to be able to afford that when the next big 

7 hurricane comes, and when the next big floods 

8 come that make this community no longer livable.

9 And I'm so, so excited that the EPA is 

10 taking this first step to regulating carbon, to 

11 regulating these climate disrupting gases. That 

12 means that we can actually address and solve this 

13 problem so my community can still -- could exist, 

14 so that the beaches where I grew up in, the 

15 beaches that were beautiful, you know, we have 

16 the potential for those to be there for future 

17 generations. 

18 So I thank you so much for what you're 

19 doing, and I thank you on behalf of the people 

20 who live in so many vulnerable places across the 

21 united states and across the world.

22 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 
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1 Others who would like to testify?

2 MR. GILROY: Good evening. My name is 

3 Jack Gilroy, G-I-L-R-O-Y. And I've been a 

4 volunteer with the Sierra Club here for seven or 

5 eight years in the Chicago Chapter.

6 I don't know too much about the exact 

7 proposal, though, so I didn't have any prepared 

8 response tonight to bring to you. And I applaud 

9 you for your endurance here in putting up with 

10 this long session here today.

11 I just wanted to make a few points after 

12 listening to the talk from others here this 

13 evening. One is that I work with a health 

14 insurance company, and a lot of the time I've 

15 experienced or noticed that a lot of the 

16 utilization of health care in the Illinois area 

17 is affected very heavily by coal. And I think 

18 that it's important to understand the extent to 

19 which coal companies are externalizing their 

20 costs on to other people, namely onto insurance 

21 companies who pay the claims, onto the state 

22 agencies that pay medical claims for people on 
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1 medical programs by the state and certainly upon 

2 the citizens who get sick and sometimes die as a 

3 result of the coal caused or diseases.

4 That in itself, I think, is really 

5 important that there be some sort of regulation 

6 to block that kind of externalization of what is

7 really the cost of the coal manufacturer or the 

8 energy manufacturers themselves. 

9 But what's the broader story, of course, 

10 is just that the problem of global warming is one 

11 that could literally make the planet 

12 uninhabitable according to climate scientists 

13 within the next 100 or 200 years. And the figure 

14 I've seen -- is it something like 97 percent of 

15 Ph.D. climate scientists who are discussing this 

16 are in agreement that that is the case, that the 

17 climate is in danger of becoming uninhabitable 

18 here on our planet.

19 And it strikes me that the nature of the 

20 situation is such that the damages from coal are 

21 so great in terms both of our loved ones dying 

22 and asthma attacks on their way to the emergency 
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1 room or in terms of the planet possibly being 

2 uninhabitable when our great grandchildren would 

3 want to be inhabiting it because nobody can then 

4 survive, no living thing might be able to be on 

5 Planet Earth, but perhaps underwater volcanic 

6 bacteria or something.

7 When you think of the damage being that 

8 great, it strikes me that it's the sort of thing 

9 that a normal context would be considered an act 

10 of war. And I don't know if anyone here has 

11 mentioned that to you, but the coal companies 

12 are, in effect, damaging us as much as some 

13 foreign group would be if they caused our loved 

14 ones to be kidnapped and forced to ingest all 

15 sorts of dangerous toxins or forced to live in a 

16 climate that can no longer support life.

17 Those kinds of things, again, are 

18 traditionally thought of as acts of war and 

19 causes of war. Well, of course we're not asking 

20 for military action against these companies. 

21 We're simply asking for the most basic kind of 

22 regulation of them that would halt them from 
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1 bringing that kind of damage onto the citizenry.

2 And given the nature of the political 

3 situation now, I don't know if there's going to 

4 be another kind of legal solution for us to do 

5 that. So I applaud very much the EPA's 

6 consideration of this proposal to halt the coal 

7 damage to our citizenry. And I would really hope 

8 very much that it can be accepted. And I thank 

9 you for, again, your efforts on that behalf.

10 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you.

11 Others who would like to come and 

12 testify?

13 [No response.]

14 MS. NOONAN: Well, we're going to go into 

15 recess for a few minutes. And if anyone feels 

16 that they want to -- minute to collect their 

17 thoughts, we'll come back as soon as you decide 

18 you would like to testify. Otherwise, we'll 

19 probably close down at 8:00 o'clock.

20 [Break from 7:35 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.]

21 MS. NOONAN: It's now 8:00 p.m., and we 

22 are closing -- we are adjourning the hearing.
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1 Thank you to all who have participated. 

2 The end of the comment period is June 25th, 2012. 

3 Thank you.

4 [Whereupon, at 8:01 p.m., the Public 

5 Hearing was concluded.]

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