From:	Antonio Santos [asantos@meca.org]
Sent:	Friday, October 02, 2009 5:06 PM
To:	parise.tanya@ecrweb.com
Subject:	RE: FW: EPA Proposed Existing RICE NESHAP - Cost of Aftertreatment

Hi, Tanya.  Per your request, MECA staff surveyed its member companies to 
assess the the validity of the emission control costs for stationary IC 
engines shown in your e-mail.  (Note:  I also provided the member companies 
with a copy of your February 25, 2009 cost memo that was posted in the EPA 
docket.)  We received two responses from our member companies.  I've 
summarized the responses below.

Hope this helps.  Please feel free to contact me (asantos@meca.org) if you 
have any questions.

If I receive any additional input from our members, I will forward the 
responses along to you.

Antonio 

---

Response #1:

I have reviewed the comments in Tanya's email and feel that the NSCR capital 
cost are overestimated.  We would expect the total capital cost to be in the 
range of $5,000.00 to about $15,000.00.  These numbers assume converter costs 
and installation.  It does not take into consideration silencing.  Properly 
sized catalyst should not require any maintenance for at least 3 years.  The 
only cost that should be needed during that time would be the annual 
certification.  We would estimate this to be about $2,000.00 per engine per 
year.  Catalyst cleaning would be the only other cost involved; we would 
estimate that to be about
$500.00 per catalyst element.   

For 4SLB engines, we would expect the total cost to be in the range of 
$3,000.00 to $12,000.00 without considering any silencing.  As for annual 
operating costs, they also seem to be high.  As above, properly sized catalyst 
should not require any maintenance for at least 3 years.
The only cost that should be needed during that time frame would be the annual 
certification.  We would estimate this to be about $2,000.00 per engine per 
year.  Catalyst cleaning would be the only other cost involved; we would 
estimate that to be about $500.00 per catalyst
element.   

2SLB engine are a little more difficult to estimate.  Major contributing 
factors are the percent reduction needed, exhaust temperatures, and the 
maximum allowable back pressure on the engine.  Typically, the requirement 
calls for CO reduction.  At times, we have seen that to meet the back pressure 
requirement it requires additional catalyst to be installed.  Also, these 
engines typically have a rated horsepower greater than 500.  With all that 
said, our estimate for engines of 500 hp or less:  the capital cost would be 
about $20,000.00 to $45,000.00 per engine and once again no silencing.  The 
annual operating cost should be the same as the only yearly cost will be for 
the annual certification (about $2,000.00 per engine).  Catalyst cleaning, 
when needed, will be about the same at $500.00 per catalyst element.  For 
example, if there are eight elements in the converter, we would assume 
$4,000.00 per engine.  

Response #2:

To assess the validity of the cost estimates in the report, I provide a few 
pricing examples below.

The prices for the catalysts are directly based on our current price list.  We 
are not suppliers of A/F controllers and do not conduct installation, but I 
have provided estimates for those items as well.
All prices take into account the mark-ups for our dealers and re-sellers.

Based on these examples, I would say the capital cost component given in the 
report (Section 3.1 in the cost memo) is quite realistic, and perhaps even 
overly conservative.

500 hp, rich burn:
Catalytic converter - $5,500
A/F Controller - $4,000
Installation - ~$1,500

1,000 hp, rich burn:
Catalytic converter - $11,000
A/F Controller - $4,000
Installation - ~$2,000

1,000 hp, lean burn:
Catalytic converter - $8,500
A/F Controller - N/A
Installation - ~$1,000

We are only manufacturers and don't get involved in the service side of the 
business.  However, the operating costs presented in the report look realistic 
in my view.



-----Original Message-----
From: Tanya Parise [mailto:parise.tanya@ecrweb.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:27 PM
To: Joe Kubsh
Subject: Re: FW: EPA Proposed Existing RICE NESHAP - Cost of Aftertreatment

Josh,

I appreciate it.  Please note my new email address (I've left the company I 
was previously with when I emailed you originally, but I am still working with 
EPA on this project):  parise.tanya@ecrweb.com.
Please use this address when you send MECA's response.

Thanks so much.
Tanya
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Kubsh [mailto:jkubsh@meca.org]
> Sent: Tue 9/1/2009 10:45 AM
> To: Tanya Parise
> Subject: RE: EPA Proposed Existing RICE NESHAP - Cost of 
> Aftertreatment
>
> Tanya, MECA is reaching out to our members to get some input to your 
> cost questions.  We will be back to you soon with our input.
>
> Joe Kubsh
> MECA
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Tanya Parise [mailto:tparise@alpha-gamma.com]
> Sent: Fri 8/28/2009 10:35 AM
> To: Joe Kubsh
> Subject: EPA Proposed Existing RICE NESHAP - Cost of Aftertreatment
>
>
>
> Joseph,
>
> I am a contractor working with Ms. Melanie King of the US EPA on the 
> existing RICE NESHAP.  We are hoping MECA can assist EPA in providing 
> additional cost information on adding aftertreatment to existing 
> stationary engines and verifying some available aftertreatment costs.
>
> In MECA's comments on the proposal, MECA cited some information on the

> cost of retrofitting DOC and DPF to existing stationary diesel engines

> from the CA ARB.  In terms of retrofitting gas engines with oxidation 
> catalyst for lean burn engines and NSCR for rich burn engines, does 
> MECA have any information on the total costs of these controls that 
> you could share with EPA?
>
> Comments received on the proposal suggested that EPA's costs were 
> underestimated and some commenters indicated that total capital costs 
> were on the order of $8,000-$25,000 for adding NSCR to engines below 
> 500 HP with annual operating costs of $3,000-$11,000.  For 4SLB 
> engines, industry indicated that capital costs would be in ballpark of

> $10,000-$25,000 with annual costs of $5,000-$7,000 with an oxidation 
> catalyst.  For 2SLB engines, industry indicated that costs would be 
> higher at $64,000 in capital costs and $20,000 in annual costs to add 
> oxidation catalyst.  Does MECA feel that these estimates are 
> reasonable and representative of the actual costs to retrofit engines?

> Any information you can send us to either support or refute these
numbers would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I appreciate any guidance and information MECA can provide on this 
> matter and look forward to your response.
>
> Thanks,
> Tanya
>
> Tanya Parise
> Senior Chemical Engineer
> Alpha-Gamma Technologies, Inc.
> 3301 Benson Drive, Suite 535
> Raleigh, NC 27609
> Phone : (919) 954-0033 ext: 109
> Fax : (919) 954-0379
> Email : tparise@alpha-gamma.com
> URL : http://www.alpha-gamma.com
>
>
>
>
>