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UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU!: 

RECRUITMENT IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

OVERSIGHT OF GOVERNMENT MANAGEMENT, 

THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE, AND THE 

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SUBCOMMITTEE 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

MAY 7, 2009 

Available via http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/index.html 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security 

and Governmental Affairs 

( 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

ROLAND W. BURRIS, Illinois 

MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Staff Director 

BRANDON L. MILHORN, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

OVERSIGHT OF GOVERNMENT MANAGEMENT, THE FEDERAL 

WORKFORCE, AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SUBCOMMITTEE 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

ROLAND W. BURRIS, Illinois 

MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

LISA M. POWELL, Chief Counsel and Acting Staff Director 

THOMAS J.R. RICHARDS, Professional Staff Member 

JENNIFER A. HEMINGWAY, Minority Staff Director 

BENJAMIN B. RHODESIDE, Chief Clerk 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 1 

Senator Voinovich ............................................................................................. 3 

Senator Burris .................................................................................................. 16 

WITNESSES 

THURSDAY, MAY 7, 2009 

Hon. John Berry, Director, U.S. Office of Personnel Management ..................... 4 

Susan L. Duncan, Director, Civilian Personnel Management, Office of the 

Deputy Chief of Staff, U.S. Department of the Army ....................................... 7 

Gail T. Lovelace, Chief Human Capital Officer, U.S. General Services Administration ................................................................................................................. 9 

Max Stier, President and Chief Executive Officer, Partnership for Public 

Service ................................................................................................................... 26 

Linda E.B. Rix, Co-Chief Executive Officer, Avue Technologies Corporation .... 28 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Berry, Hon. John: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 39 

Duncan, Susan L.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 43 

Lovelace, Gail T.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 9 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 52 

Rix, Linda E.B.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 28 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 70 

Stier, Max: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 26 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 58 

APPENDIX 

Background .............................................................................................................. 88 

National Council on Disability, prepared statement ............................................ 93 

Project Management Institute, prepared statement ............................................. 105 

Questions and responses for the Record from Mr. Berry ..................................... 111 

(1) 

UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU!: 

RECRUITMENT IN THE FEDERAL 

GOVERNMENT 

THURSDAY, MAY 7, 2009 

U.S. SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT OF GOVERNMENT

MANAGEMENT, THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE,

AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,

OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:31 p.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Daniel K. Akaka, 

Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Akaka, Voinovich, and Burris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA 

Senator AKAKA. The Subcommittee on Oversight of Government 

Management, the Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia, 

will come to order. 

I want to welcome our witnesses with much aloha and thank you 

for joining us today to discuss Federal Government recruitment. 

This is such an important issue that often does not receive the attention it deserves, and I appreciate your work on this topic. And 

I just have a feeling that this new team will run with it and so will 

we here in the Congress. I look forward to great years for the workers of our government and for all of you. 

I cannot think of a better time for us to focus on Federal recruitment than during Public Service Recognition Week, which we are 

in at the present time. This week, we honor the dedicated men and 

women working in Federal, State and local governments who are 

the bedrock of our Nation’s workforce. 

Around the country, people are taking time to recognize the contributions of public servants and promote careers in public service. 

For example, there is an exhibit on the National Mall this week, 

highlighting more than 100 Federal civilian and military agencies 

through the weekend. 

Recruitment is the lifeline of a vibrant and talented workforce 

from every entry level position to the senior executive service. 

Finding talented and dedicated employees is essential to carrying 

out the missions of Federal agencies. 

The Federal Government offers competitive benefits and recruitment incentives, which helps to make it an employer of choice. 

2 

However, if agencies are not doing the leg work of recruitment and 

creating a candidate-friendly process, they may be undermining 

their appeal. While there are pockets of Federal agencies that see 

the value of investing in these areas, all agencies must do better. 

Too many agencies take a passive and reactive approach to recruitment. When a vacancy occurs, they post lengthy and confusing 

job announcements on a Web site and just hope the right people 

apply. Agencies should develop forward-looking strategic plans that 

assess critical skills, gaps, and target highly qualified populations. 

Such plans should take into account both expected and unexpected vacancies. Human resources professionals need better training to develop these strategic efforts. Managers must be engaged 

throughout the process to ensure that the skills they seek are reflected in job advertisements and applications. 

The Federal Government also needs to make the hiring process 

more user friendly. Candidates should not have to abandon their 

Federal job search because of frustration with the process. Vacancy 

announcements should clearly explain the job’s duties, qualifications, and requirements to apply. Agencies must work to make the 

hiring process simpler and quicker while protecting the merit system principles. We must remember that the very best candidates 

may have a variety of career opportunities. They are not likely to 

wade through a slow, complicated, and uninformative process. 

Now, more than ever, agencies have an opportunity to make the 

Federal Government the employer of choice. 

In his inaugural address, President Obama encouraged renewal, 

and a renewed spirit, of national service for this and future generations. This renewed spirit of service is attracting people who otherwise may not have considered Federal service. 

We cannot afford to have State recruitment strategies hinder our 

ability to build the next generation of Federal employees. The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) estimates that 30 percent of 

the Federal workforce will retire in the next 5 years. We already 

have critical skills gaps in many fields, including acquisition, foreign language, engineering, human resources, information technology, and veterinary medicine. Many highly qualified professionals in these fields may be searching for new jobs in this difficult economy. Improving Federal recruitment will begin to close 

these critical skills gaps. 

To help agencies address problems in Federal recruitment and 

hiring, Senator Voinovich, and I recently introduced the Federal 

Hiring Process Improvement Act—S. 736. Among other provisions, 

the bill addresses Federal recruitment issues by requiring Federal 

agencies to develop strategic workforce plans that include recruitment strategies and a focus on critical skills gaps. Additionally, S. 

736 would require streamlined, clear, and concise job announcements that are free from confusing jargon and posted and targeted 

in strategic locations. 

Agencies need to adapt, just as the private sector has, to the culture of the next generation of Federal workers. For example, agencies should use inexpensive new media marketing tools to attract 

young people into Federal service, and agencies should create new 

pipelines into the job market by targeting candidates who might 

not have considered public service until recently. The Federal GovVerDate Nov 24 2008 10:16 Apr 14, 2010 Jkt 051024 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\51024.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
3 

ernment is the largest employer in the United States, and Federal 

service is a noble profession. 

This week, Public Service Recognition Week, we celebrate those 

men and women who make a commitment to serve their government in the military or civilian service. In honoring these employees, we have an opportunity to inspire the next generation to pursue Federal careers. 

I look forward to hearing about the efforts made by OPM to address shortcomings in Federal recruitment, recommendations from 

our other witnesses for improvements, and thoughts on the Federal 

Hiring Process Improvement Act. So I want to welcome the witnesses here on this panel and also on the following panel. 

Senator Voinovich, for your opening statement. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR VOINOVICH 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you, Senator Akaka. 

This week, we celebrate our Nation’s public servants. Tomorrow, 

I will be in Cleveland meeting with a lot of Federal employees to 

honor several that have gone way beyond the call of duty. I think 

it is extremely important that we honor these folks that have made 

a difference for us. 

The legislation that you talked about is another chapter in something that the two of us have been working on for almost a decade, 

and that is to improve the environment for people coming to work 

for the Federal Government, recruiting them, retaining them, and 

rewarding them. And I am running out of time; I am leaving. I 

have a little bit less than 2 years, and I really would like to see 

that legislation pass because I think it is needed. 

Mr. Berry, I know that you are new to the job over there, but 

the fact is, we have to get this done. I am so tired of year after 

year of running into people who say the hiring system does not 

work. 

We have been dealing with this human capital crisis, and roughly one-third of the government’s top scientists, engineers, physicians, mathematicians, economists, and other specialized professionals are going to be leaving in the next 5 years. The economy 

may have some impact on their decision making, reflective of the 

overall U.S. labor force. And while the economy may lead some to 

extend, as I mentioned, their Federal careers, we need to think 

about this wonderful opportunity that we have. We should take advantage of it. 

Struggling to meet the challenges of transferring knowledge to 

the next generation, agencies are also being tasked with hiring individuals to ensure the stimulus dollars are well spent. We are interested in what is happening in that regard, although, I think we 

found out, Senator Akaka, that the majority of that money is going 

out for Medicaid and I think 18 percent for education. But there 

are departments that we need to be looking at. In meeting our hiring challenges, the government must target its effort to recruit the 

best and brightest from the increasing number of employees entering and re-entering the job market. 

I am hoping that this hearing today will shed some light on 

where we are at. 

4 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Berry appears in the Appendix on page 39. 

Mr. Berry, you have had a chance to be in the saddle just a short 

time, but I’m interested in hearing your snapshots of what you see 

your challenges are. 

Ms. Duncan, as you know, I have worked tirelessly on that National Security Personnel System (NSPS) to improve performance 

in the Department of Defense (DOD). It goes back a long time and 

many hours with Gordon England. And I am interested to see how 

that is coming along because, I hope, as a professional organization, where people are interested in coming to work and being rewarded for the work that they do, I think that is an added benefit 

of attracting the right people to the Defense Department, and perhaps maybe look at some other departments. 

Ms. Lovelace, you and I have talked a lot, and I am interested 

to see what you folks are doing. 

So thank you, Senator Akaka. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Senator Voinovich. 

We have with us on this panel, John Berry, who is the Director 

of the Office of Personnel Management; Susan Duncan, who is the 

Director of Civilian Personnel Management for the Army; and Gail 

Lovelace, who is Chief Human Capital Officer of the General Services Administration. 

As you know, it is a custom of this Subcommittee to swear in all 

witnesses, so I ask you to please rise and raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 

this Subcommittee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 

the truth, so help you, God? 

Mr. BERRY. I do. 

Ms. DUNCAN. I do. 

Ms. LOVELACE. I do. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. Let the record note that the witnesses responded in the affirmative. 

Before we begin, I want to remind you that although your oral 

statement is limited to 5 minutes, your full statement will be included in the record. 

Mr. Berry, will you please proceed with your statement? 

TESTIMONY OF HON. JOHN BERRY,1 DIRECTOR, U.S. OFFICE 

OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT 

Mr. BERRY. Mr. Chairman and Senator Voinovich, thank you so 

much for the opportunity to be here with you today, and I want to 

thank both of you for your incredible leadership on creating Public 

Service Week and allowing us to honor and recognize the people 

who serve our country day in and day out. And thanks to each of 

you for your leadership over the years and all that you have done 

there. 

It is also an honor to be at this table with both Ms. Duncan and 

Ms. Lovelace, who have forgotten more about human resource management than I will ever learn. They both have been leaders in this 

area, and I am very honored to be with them both today, look forward, and am excited to work with both of them in the months and 

years ahead. 

5 

I appreciate you giving us the opportunity to share with you my 

commitment as the recently confirmed director of OPM to create a 

dynamic and responsive recruiting strategy and hiring process. I 

am convinced there is no other priority more important than making the Federal recruitment and hiring process as transparent, efficient, effective, and user friendly as possible, from the perspective 

of both the job applicant and the Federal agencies that need these 

critical skills to accomplish their missions. 

In my short time, I have learned a lot about what OPM needs 

to do to help us move forward into the 21st Century. We are at the 

table today with two agencies that are both leaders in this effort 

and there is much progress to be done. 

Your legislation, I think, is a great first step, and it would be my 

hope that we can actually accomplish almost everything in your 

legislation through administrative action this year, and we are 

going to work to do that. So I look forward to working with you and 

your staff to, hopefully, advance this as quickly as we can. 

To show you how seriously we have taken the challenge in the 

past year at OPM, not necessarily me, but our wonderful staff 

there have done a couple things, and many of them in concert with 

folks at this table. 

OPM, in collaboration with the Federal Acquisition Institute, introduced the idea of working as one Federal Government to recruit 

and hire a contract specialist at the entry level. Representatives— 

we brought together folks from the acquisition community, agencies 

throughout the government, and they tackled this down, and they 

were able to take a 75-page position description down to four pages 

and get it into plain language. 

It was an amazing process. I have been very impressed with it. 

I have shared it with the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). 

I have discussed it with the senior staff at the White House. This 

is something we want to take, and take this process throughout the 

government. It has been an incredible success, and it is one that 

we can build upon in the future. 

Building on that, then OPM worked with our Federal agencies in 

the government to take on 20 other mission-critical, heavily-recruited occupations to, again, sort of achieve that plain language 

objective, and have been able to do that, essentially abolishing the 

old knowledge, skills, and abilities approach and the essays that 

were involved with that, and moving to a resume-based approach 

that allows plain English. You and I could go on the Web site, read 

them, know exactly what we are applying for, and develop and target our resume accordingly. 

Some of these initiatives that we have talked about here, we 

keep in mind, as both senators have mentioned, in the dark challenges we find ourselves on the economic front is also a huge opportunity for us on the recruitment front right now, and we need to 

take advantage of that as we move forward. 

We also have an opportunity and a responsibility to help in some 

areas. I am specifically interested in thinking about a number of 

the layoffs that are being faced in the Michigan, Detroit, Ohio 

areas of people who are in the car industries. These are engineers 

and some of our best and our brightest. 

6 

Well, we have a need in all of our Federal agencies. And one of 

the things I am going to work with my colleagues on is to see if 

we can create a job fair this summer, where we can try to identify 

some of those people who might have been laid off from the auto 

industry, or who are threatened with layoffs, to let them know, and 

see if we can match those skills up with the Federal Government 

and get them into jobs where they can do a great job. 

Finally, I would like to just touch quickly on student hiring. 

While the numbers are not as dire as is often reported, we nonetheless need to do much better in terms of not only drawing students 

into our intern programs, but then converting them into permanent 

hires when they are outstanding individuals. 

One of our key initiatives that will take place this June is to pull 

academic leaders together from vocational, technical, high schools, 

community colleges, and universities to discuss with them how we 

can do this right and how we can build that, and working with 

some of the programs that the Partnership for Public Service has 

put in place. We need to ensure the academic world clearly understands our needs, our pipeline, and can match up with them the 

resources. 

Finally—and I apologize, I am running out of time real quickly. 

Just to touch on something I am going to immediately put in place. 

You have heard of tiger teams. We are going to create a new team 

idea called a wolf pack. I am going to break through the silo approach that we have in our agency at OPM, and we are going to 

draw the strongest people from each of our silos at OPM, create a 

wolf pack, and challenge them to take down the elk of hiring process, which has been an ongoing nightmare to all of us over so many 

years. 

My hope and my pledge to this Subcommittee, and to my colleagues at the table, if they are going to help, is I hope this year 

we can nail this, built on what has already been put in place, but 

then take out whatever else we need to do to get this done so that 

throughout the government, we have a clean, clear hiring process, 

and I am very excited by that. 

We need to do that, obviously, without sacrificing our merit system or our veterans’ preference programs. My pledge to you is that 

we will be very sensitive and careful as we sculpt that and do that. 

But I will look forward to coming back here a year from now, and 

hopefully with Ms. Duncan and Ms. Lovelace, where we can show 

you—rather than talking about what we hope to do, we will show 

you what we have done. And I look forward to doing that. 

Thank you, sir. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Berry, for that enthusiastic testimony. 

Now, we will hear from Ms. Duncan. Please go ahead with your 

testimony. 

7 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Duncan appears in the Appendix on page 43. 

TESTIMONY OF SUSAN L. DUNCAN,1 DIRECTOR, CIVILIAN PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT, OFFICE OF THE DEPUTY CHIEF OF 

STAFF, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY 

Ms. DUNCAN. Senator Akaka, Senator Voinovich, thank you for 

the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the Civilian 

Personnel of the Army. Army civilians provide vital support to soldiers and families in this era of persistent conflict. They share full 

responsibility for mission accomplishment by delivering combat 

support and combat service support at home, abroad, and on the 

battlefield. More than ever, Army civilians are an absolutely essential component of readiness. Today, the Army Civilian Corps is over 

287,000 strong with 5,600 currently serving in harm’s way in the 

U.S. Central Command area of operations. 

My testimony today provides you my assessment of the challenges facing the Army Civilian Corps, the human capital strategy, 

and supporting actions the Army will undertake in the coming 

years to address these challenges. I will share some key data that 

reflect the scope of our recruitment challenges, as well as some key 

performance metrics. Most importantly, I will share initiatives that 

the Army has taken to invigorate its outreach recruitment efforts 

for the civilian talent it requires. 

Our strategic human capital planning tools are some of the best 

analytical and forecasting capabilities in the government and have 

been adopted by OPM for government-wide use. In addition, our 

approach to workforce planning has been adopted for training government agencies by OPM and was recognized by the Human Capital Management symposium for Defense. 

Together with the capabilities of our tools and our comprehensive 

approach to workforce planning, we have been able to make a significant difference in several key decision areas. A few examples include the areas of base realignment and closure planning; the 

sizing of the overall requirements for the civilian hiring needed to 

sustain our capabilities; in-depth assessment of mission-critical occupations for identifying the shortfalls and the needed mitigation 

strategies; projected retirements; attrition rates; intern allocations; 

and succession planning. In addition, we have also completed competency assessments of over 45,000 positions in mission-critical occupations. 

In 2008, the Department of the Army Civilian Human Resources 

professionals filled over 122,000 recruitment actions, 48,000 of 

which were external hires new to the Army. To fill these positions, 

the Army opened 81,620 vacancy announcements. Almost 6.2 million applications were submitted and processed. This represents an 

average of 64 applications per vacancy. While there is rarely a vacancy that does not attract some applicants, there are critical, 

hard-to-fill jobs for which traditional recruiting methods do not 

produce sufficient numbers of well-qualified applicants. 

We have successfully grown the Army civilian workforce over the 

last few years; yet, our capacity is significantly stressed to meet 

known and projected hiring initiatives over the next few years. The 

Base Realignment and Closure Act of 2005 (BRAC) will require the 

movement of over 23,000 positions to different geographical areas. 

8 

Our analysis of past BRAC actions indicated that, traditionally, 

only about 30 percent of the current workforce will move with their 

current organization. This projection may move upward based upon 

today’s economy. We project that over 56,000 additional BRAC recruit actions must be filled between now and Fiscal Year 2011 to 

provide commanders the talent they need to meet critical missions. 

This is in addition to the over 120,000 actions needed to sustain 

current operations. The Army projects hiring up to 4,000 employees 

as a result of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and a 

significant number of new civilians as part of the current insourcing initiative. 

Our analytic and forecasting capabilities, as well as our approach 

to workforce planning, has helped the Army join the ranks as one 

of the best places to work in the Federal Government in 2007. This 

ranking was determined by the Partnership for Public Service and 

American University’s Institute for the Study of Public Policy Implementation. 

We regularly project approaching retirements and hiring needs 

with a significant degree of precision. These projections help target 

recruitment needs and serve as the basis for allocation of centrallyfunded intern positions. Our occupational hiring levels are tracked 

against the projected recruitment needs, making adjustments as required. The army civilian occupational requirements are also evaluated against high-demand occupations in the civilian labor force so 

that we can develop future recruitment strategies ahead of potential shortfalls. 

The Army civilian workforce relies on automated tools and technology to manage our hiring processes. We adopted a single resume 

format that can be used for any vacancy, which the Army civilian 

workforce has. It is then easy to self-nominate for any vacancy with 

this resume on file. We are exploring options today that will more 

specifically target candidate pools and data-mined existing resume 

repositories to identify potential candidates that possess the competencies we need. 

While applicants are required to use Web-based resume builder 

to apply for positions, Army provides them real-time access to an 

automated system that gives them the status of every position for 

which they have applied. They know when their application has 

been received and processed, whether they have been determined 

qualified and/or eligible, and whether they are referred to the selecting official. They are also able to quickly learn when a selection 

has been made. At any stage in the process, they are provided access to HR staff via an automated help desk that can address their 

questions regarding decisions that have been made in regards to 

their application. 

The Army regularly uses nine direct-hire authorities to expedite 

hiring. These include 24 healthcare occupations and five engineer 

occupations that support recovery efforts in New Orleans from 

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. We also use this tool for 82 medical 

positions supporting Walter Reed’s mission to care for our Nation’s 

wounded warriors. 

To fill our mid and senior level contracting positions, the Army 

began using the Department of Defense expedited hiring authority 

for acquisition positions. The Army has used recruitment fairs and 

9 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Lovelace appears in the Appendix on page 52. 

partnered with local communities to address hiring needs associated with BRAC 2005 and other shortage specialties. 

These job fairs and recruiting efforts are just a few examples of 

hundreds of similar events conducted across the Army. We continue to aggressively work with DOD and OPM to provide managers the tools and authorities needed to effectively compete in 

local, regional, and national labor markets. 

In 2007, the Army proposed a new competitive appointment authority for the spouses of military members who were killed or totally disabled in the line of duty. These military spouses are called 

upon to be the chief source of income for their families, but without 

current Federal employment status, they had no entry to Federal 

jobs absent the current competitive examining process. This initiative resulted in the publication of Executive Order 13473, signed on 

September 25, 2008 by the president. 

Army leaders at all levels recognize the strategic value of human 

capital planning and view civilians as strategic investments. We 

improved our recruitment of qualified talent. We have human capital data that spans decades and seek to improve capabilities to 

utilize it more effectively in the overall management of the Army 

civilian personnel. 

Our recruiting efforts today are critical to a viable, diverse, highly-qualified workforce of tomorrow. Our human resource professionals, although stressed by the persistent conflict, remain dedicated to see this mission through. We will continue to work these 

issues, best practices, and lessons learned with our partners and 

refine our strategies for recruiting and sustaining our workforce. 

Thank you, sirs, for the opportunity to appear before you today. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Ms. Duncan, for your testimony. 

Now we will hear from Gail Lovelace, your testimony. 

TESTIMONY OF GAIL T. LOVELACE,1 CHIEF HUMAN CAPITAL 

OFFICER, U.S. GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION 

Ms. LOVELACE. Good afternoon, Chairman Akaka, Ranking Member Voinovich. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 

today on behalf of the General Services Administration (GSA). I am 

especially honored to be here with you to discuss recruitment and 

retention of a talented Federal workforce during Public Service 

Recognition Week. 

GSA was established in 1949 to provide a centralized delivery 

system of products and services to the Federal Government, 

leveraging our buying power to get the best value for taxpayers. 

When I started in GSA a few years ago, we were an agency of 

40,000 employees. Our mission has not changed, yet we stand here 

today an organization of 12,000. While we certainly do not have the 

numbers that my colleague at Army has, I believe that both of our 

organizations rely highly on a competent workforce to accomplish 

our mission. 

Our continued ranking as one of the best places to work in the 

Federal Government shows that we have placed high emphasis on 

10 

workforce engagement, and this has contributed to GSA’s ability to 

be in a better position not only to attract but to retain talent. 

Recently, there has been a good deal of concern about hiring in 

the Federal Government. Many say that the process is too slow. 

When the process is slow, reasons can come from multiple sources: 

The manager, the applicant, the human resources professional, our 

policies, our technology, our processes. Whatever the reason, we 

need to break this cycle and improve the hiring process across government. We need to be bold; we need to be visible. 

Even in this environment, GSA has been able to attract top talent. We have taken a number of steps to enhance recruitment efforts so that we are positioned to bring the best and the brightest 

to work at our agency. While we have made progress in some 

areas, we continue to face challenges in others, and we need to do 

more; we are doing more. 

In February, we launched a new initiative called Lean Hiring. 

This initiative focuses on specific actions that can be taken to improve the timeliness and quality of our hiring process. Through 

Lean Hiring, we are conducting a top to bottom review of policies, 

processes, performance measures, technology, the skill level of our 

HR staff, management’s understanding of the process, and communication with applicants. 

All of this will be used to determine how we can turn around the 

reality and/or perception of slow hiring. Our goal is to expedite the 

process while continuing to hire top talent. We are looking for immediate quick wins and long-term solutions that focuses on defining the current State, the ideal State, and the gaps. 

We have also put a spotlight focus on the recruitment and retention of our acquisition workforce. Clearly, acquisition is a critical 

part of GSA’s mission. Our efforts in this area have increased and 

will continue to increase over the coming months. 

As I close, please understand that GSA will improve hiring. We 

will be bold and visible. We will improve the overall hiring experience for managers, for applicants, and for our HR professionals. I 

look forward to working with our new director of the Office of Personnel Management and my fellow members of the Chief Human 

Capital Officer’s Council to develop government-wide solutions to 

address issues with the hiring process. 

Chairman Akaka, I want to thank you again for the opportunity 

to address you this afternoon. Thanks for all that you do and Senator Voinovich, if he were here, to support the Federal workforce. 

And Happy Public Service Recognition Week. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Ms. Lovelace, for your 

testimony. 

I am glad to hear the optimism that is in your testimonies and 

look forward to working with you. 

I have a question to all of you, to this panel. I hope that you all 

have had a chance to review S. 736, the Federal Hiring Process Improvement Act, which Senator Voinovich and I introduced. The bill 

has a number of provisions related to recruitment. For example, 

agencies must develop targeted and strategic recruitment plans 

and draft clear, concise job vacancy announcements. 

11 

I would like to hear your views on the value of strategic workforce planning for recruitment, why more agencies are not doing 

this already, as well as any additional thoughts you might have on 

S. 736. 

Mr. Berry. 

Mr. BERRY. Mr. Chairman, I think it is—as I mentioned, I think 

it is a great bill. And I think almost every idea in it—I was talking 

with our staff on the way up here as we were reviewing this and 

getting ready for this testimony. Almost every idea in this, I think 

we are able to do without legislation. And it would be my hope that 

as we seek to reform this process, that we can take each of the 

steps that you have identified—which every one of them are key 

pieces to the puzzle. You do not want to leave any of them out. So 

we have to have all of that input as we move forward in terms of 

an overhaul of the hiring and recruitment process. 

It starts with good workforce planning. When you can think 

ahead as to where your bubble is, where your need is, what is your 

need going to be, then you can develop your targeted recruitment 

from that, and a lot of other things then flow. Otherwise, you do 

shoot in the dark. 

But my hope is—I think it is great legislation. If it moves quickly, we will look forward to working with you to make it a reality. 

But I also think that we could also move forward without its passage and adopt a lot of these things just administratively. And I 

think working with your staff and Senator Voinovich’s staff, and 

the Chief Human Capital Officers (CHCO) Council, I think there 

is many of these things that we can put in place and adopt as good 

practice throughout the government and just get them done. 

Senator AKAKA. Yes. 

Mr. Berry, Mr. Stier’s written testimony suggests that Congress 

consider requiring OPM to create a government-wide strategic 

workforce plan, taking into account the multi-sector workforce. 

What are your views on that recommendation? 

Mr. BERRY. Mr. Chairman, I think one of the difficulties in being 

here in a month and looking at this, is I think the reason why a 

lot of past efforts have run aground on the shoals, is they tried to 

do too much at once. 

The hiring process has sort of five elements to it: Workforce planning, recruitment, hiring itself, bringing them in, getting them 

through security and suitability, and then initial training. 

Now, if we try to tackle all five at once, my view is—and that 

is what has been attempted. It is kind of like trying to swallow 

the—as I mentioned before, swallowing the camel whole. And my 

focus in the first year is going to be to look at the middle three of 

that puzzle, to look at recruitment, hiring, and security suitability, 

and see if we can streamline and build on the successes that we 

have, the points that are on the board now in terms of what we 

have been able to do with the contract specialist and those other 

20 positions. And the defense and the intelligence agencies have 

done some great things in working with us. I think together we 

have worked through the backlog on the security clearance issue 

now and the suitability stuff. 

12 

So we are very close to nailing it, and I do not want to lose that 

progress. And so, in year one, my focus is going to be on those 

three, core, center middle functions. 

Now, that is not to say workforce planning and training for our 

initial entry level, you can ignore it. You cannot. But what I am 

going to do is I think I am going to try to tackle—we are going to 

look into that in much more depth in year two and year three. 

So I think we have to get the middle part right first, and then 

move to that. I am not saying ignore it, but in terms of priority and 

focus of time and energy—if we had unlimited resources, unlimited 

staff, sure, you might be able to try to do it all. But that is the approach I am going to take, sir, at OPM, is to start in the middle, 

then work out to the edge. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you for your response. 

Let me get back to the original question for Ms. Duncan and Ms. 

Lovelace; that is your views on the value of strategic workforce 

planning for recruitment and your thoughts on S. 736. 

Ms. Duncan. 

Ms. DUNCAN. Yes, sir. It is absolutely vital, as Mr. Berry has 

said, to have strategic planning for your hiring, less you do not 

know what you need to hire. You are not using the taxpayers’ dollars in the best method if you do not have the people that you need 

for the future. 

It is in everyone’s best interest to use their strategic planning up 

front so we know what we need. And it is not that we know what 

we need next week or next month or next year; we need to know 

what we need 4 years, 5 years, 10 years out, because that is how 

long in some occupations it takes to grow one of those employees. 

So that is why that strategic planning is so important to go far 

enough out. 

Sir, I kind of like to use the analogy of our hiring processes have 

gotten to be like gaining weight, a pound here, two pounds there. 

You know, it really does not, at the time, seem like a big deal. But 

then all of a sudden, you wake up one day, and you have gained 

40 pounds, and it is a crisis. 

Well, we have done that to the hiring process. We have put on 

a reporting requirement here, we have put on a regulation there, 

we have put on different procedure here. And all of a sudden, we 

have this hiring process that is just too fat to move forward. 

So we need to put it on a diet. We need to take away some of 

those things, such as writing knowledge, skills, and abilities 

(KSAs), that will streamline the process. We do not need to put any 

additional pounds on. I would be very concerned about any reports 

that could not be automated, because in order to do manual reports, the HR people who need to be doing the hiring have to do 

those reports. So I do not want to draw them away from their main 

mission. 

Also, as I testified, we do over 6 million applications a year. We 

have to have an automated process for doing that. So I need a process that can be used very efficiently by the applicant and very efficiently by management. So whatever we do has to be an automated 

process. So that is just something I would keep in mind. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Ms. Duncan. 

Ms. DUNCAN. Thank you, sir. 

13 

Senator AKAKA. Ms. Lovelace. 

Ms. LOVELACE. Yes. Chairman Akaka, I believe workforce planning is critical to any recruitment and attracting of talent into the 

organization, because you really need to link your workforce planning to the mission goals of the organization. And that is the time 

in which you engage managers early in the process so that you are 

making that strong linkage between workforce planning and the 

business needs of the organization for today and looking forward. 

We have clearly been doing workforce planning for a number of 

years now. As we initiate our lean hiring process, we are looking 

to see how we improve that process; how do we make it a more 

agile process so that when we have to address some significant 

change, either in our business, or something like the Recovery Act 

being passed, where we really have to shift our focus and our resources, how do we change our workforce process so that it is more 

agile and able to meet our current needs? 

So that is clearly part of our process, trying to determine how we 

change what we have done in workforce planning. It is absolutely 

a key component of any recruitment effort that any agency undertakes. 

Now, your question about S. 736. I certainly read S. 736. In fact, 

the lean hiring teams have actually taken it and done a side-byside analysis with some of the efforts that we have under lean hiring. And I have to tell you, we were quite pleased to see the similarities of what is in S. 736 and what we are doing. And so, we 

were patting ourselves on the back, so to speak, to say, hey, maybe 

we are doing something right here. But again, S. 736, lean hiring, 

we still have a lot of work to do, and we believe we are on the path 

to make that happen. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much for your responses. Senator Voinovich. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Mr. Berry, have you had a chance to look at 

the number of Federal jobs open to external applicants that go to 

people already in the civil service? In your opinion, what, if any, 

impact does this have on the effectiveness of the Federal Government’s recruitment strategies? 

One of the things that Senator Akaka and I worked on was the 

issue of annual leave tied solely to the employee’s years of Federal 

employment. We changed that, to make the Federal Government 

more attractive to mid-career professionals. So I would be interested on your comment on that. 

The other is this. We have really worked hard on flexibilities. We 

provided the opportunity to do direct hiring. 

We have given these flexibilities, many of them, and I would like 

to have you do an inventory of them and find out just how many 

people are using the direct hire authority. My concern is that a lot 

of these agencies are not using the tools that we have made available to them. 

Could you comment on that? 

Mr. BERRY. Senator, I think you have just hit the bullseye, if you 

will. In 4 weeks on the job, one of the things I have realized is that 

you have done and given a lot of flexibilities and passed a lot of 

great ideas that are in the toolbox. And the agencies, a number of 

us have gotten together and worked up good solutions. But at the 

14 

end of the day, it is left to be a voluntary approach. And as is often 

the case in human nature, somebody who has been doing something a certain way for 25, 30 years says, well, do I have a choice? 

I can keep doing it like I have been doing it or I can use your new 

tool, and I am going to have to learn that and work out the kinks. 

I will keep doing it the old way. 

I think we are going to have to work on that. And I, quite frankly, I have already had a good conversation with Peter Orszag at 

OMB. There are people who have joked. I do not know who to credit the original joke to, but that the Office of Personal Management 

should be called the Office of Personnel Recommendations; that in 

many cases is the case. 

When we come up with a good idea, and if it works, we need to 

make it work for everybody, and institute this, and drill these 

things down with these tools. And so, I am going to look to be a 

strong partner with OMB, where we are going to try the voluntary 

approach again because maybe we just have not marketed it right. 

Maybe we did not explain it right the first time, so we are going 

to try to make it clear and we are going to make it simpler. But 

at the end of the day, if it still is not getting used, we have to work 

with OMB to help make it mandatory and drill these things 

through the agencies, and get them used and get them done. 

One quick example. We were talking about the acquisition. All 

of us worked awful hard to take that 72-page document down to 

a four-page document. We went back to one of the agencies and 

said, ‘‘Look, here we have done it. We will give you the computer 

program. We will train your people. Here is the four-page document.’’ And at the end of the day, which one did they use? The old 

72-page document. 

We cannot re-invent the wheel and have people going back. We 

have to make sure they get used. And I think you are dead on with 

that, Senator, and we are going to figure out how to do that, one 

way or the other. 

Senator VOINOVICH. These are big picture things that I am asking about because you are coming on new. One of the things that 

we discovered is that within the performance accountability, or the 

Government Performance and Results Act (GPRA) plan, so many 

agencies did not include the human capital elements needed to accomplish the things that the department was undertaking. I wonder if you have had a chance to look at some of those reports to 

ascertain whether or not people have taken the issue of human 

capital seriously in terms of their long-range planning. 

Mr. BERRY. Just in the last answer, sir, the answer is some have, 

some have not. In discussing with Senator Akaka to the last question about workforce planning, to the extent of it, all of us would 

agree it is critically important. But, quite frankly, in many cases, 

the data and the staffing are not there to do the job in many of 

the agencies that we need to do to get that. 

So I was sort of coming up with a phased approach of year one, 

of targeting in on the recruitment, the hiring and the security 

clearance side, to get that right this year, and then hopefully work 

with OMB and others to get the agencies to build the necessary attention and resources that need to go with it for the human resource/human capital side of the equation; so that when we, next 

15 

year, start to work on the workforce planning and the initial training approaches, the agencies will have the staffing and capabilities, 

that we will do that. 

The CHCO Council had their first meeting last week. I convened 

an emergency meeting of it to discuss the flu, the H1N1 issue, so 

that we could be making sure that we were addressing what needed to be addressed from the human capital side on that equation. 

But our first formal meeting is actually next week, May 12. 

So Ms. Lovelace and I have met and are getting ready for that, 

and we look forward to identifying across the board where are the 

weak spots so that we can go to OMB together, the CHCO Council 

can elevate that and say, look, here is something you have to help 

us pay attention to, and you have to get the agencies, and the 

agency heads, and the deputy secretaries, and others to pay attention to re-build this capacity, and we are going to do that, sir. 

Well, I would be interested in also having you do an inventory 

of whether or not these agencies have really taken the human capital part of this into consideration. I am still hearing people tell me 

that when they lay off people or there is a little crunch, they get 

rid of those people first. 

I mean, the whole goal that we had was to elevate this as something that is extremely important to the success of an organization. 

And it seems to me—and I will be asking this question 6 months 

from now, which is what is the evaluation of whether or not these 

folks are doing the job. I am sure that Ms. Lovelace is—— 

You are on the CHCO Council. 

Ms. LOVELACE. Yes, I am. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Sure. I bet you get her in a room and have 

her give you a little insight into what she has observed and to help 

ensure that CHCO Council becomes what we expect it to be, a 

forum where people are coming together, sharing ideas, and getting 

the job done. And it is important. 

I mean, have you thought about who is going to be the quarterback over there for that? Have you given any consideration to that? 

I know you have a lot of things on your mind, but that is a pretty 

important role for someone. 

Mr. BERRY. Well, sir, I am going to be the chair of that council. 

And like I said, I was the one who convened the meeting last week. 

And your suggestion is a good one. And Ms. Lovelace and I sat 

down and spent an hour and a half yesterday doing just what you 

were talking about, sir. So I am going to take it personally very seriously. So if there is a quarterback, you are looking at him, and 

I am going to be personally driving that. 

Senator VOINOVICH. But what you need is some one to help you 

with that job like John Salamone, who worked with me at one 

time. 

Mr. BERRY. Absolutely. 

Senator VOINOVICH. And I think he tried very hard, but you 

know and I know that as OPM Director you have a lot of things 

on your plate. You have to have somebody that gets up early in the 

morning and goes to bed late at night, and really works and works 

and works and works, that comes to you, has a relationship with 

Peter Orszag and whoever is going to do the human capital thing 

over at OMB, to say, hey, this has got to get done. 

16 

Mr. BERRY. One of the things I was going to discuss next week 

with the CHCO Council at the May 12 meeting was whether that 

executive director, whether it should be a political or career person. 

I can see benefits and positives both ways, and I want to get the 

advice of the council on that before we make that call. I would have 

to say I lean career, but I want to get the benefit of everyone’s 

input on that before we make a full decision on that and hire. 

But you are right. There will be an executive director. We will 

be hiring that person and getting that, so they will be backing up 

that effort. But I did want you to know I will be personally taking 

it very seriously as well. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Last but not least—this is a comment that 

I want to make—Ms. Duncan looks like she has got a pretty good 

operation. 

Mr. BERRY. Yes. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Best practice. 

Mr. BERRY. I turned to Nancy Kichak here, and a couple of your 

ideas, Ms. Duncan, I said, ‘‘We have to do that.’’ 

Senator VOINOVICH. Bring her over for a couple of weeks. 

Mr. BERRY. Ms. Kichak was taking good notes. We are going to 

be looking forward to emulating a lot of that and working some of 

those issues out, because we do not need to re-invent the wheel. If 

you have an automated program and it is working, I want to buy 

it. So we are going to be working on that, and I look forward to 

working with Ms. Duncan as well. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Senator Voinovich. And 

now we will have the opening statement and questions from Senator Burris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BURRIS 

Senator BURRIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 

Voinovich. I want to thank the panel for assisting us. I am a little 

bit green to the Senate, so I am going to ask some questions that 

may seem to be a little redundant, but it would also help me. 

I had a friend that used to run the Department of Personnel, I 

think, but he never told me what he did. And I am just trying to 

make sure I understand the extent of your jurisdiction. 

Now, do you actually do the hiring for the agencies or you recommend to the agencies’ personnels that they can hire? 

Mr. Berry. 

Mr. BERRY. Yes. The Office of Personnel Management, sir, if you 

will, is responsible for the civil service and the regulations under 

which they operate. We are essentially the office of people. We are 

the people resource of the government, so we want to put in place 

good practices that protect merit principles, protect veterans’ preference in hiring, which oftentimes those two things can—like Ms. 

Duncan was saying a pound here, a pound there. 

Senator BURRIS. But you do not do the hiring. 

Mr. BERRY. Other than for my own agency, no, sir. 

So each agency, then, what we are charged with doing is working 

with the agencies to have in place policies and procedures and hiring practices that we have the responsibility—I can go in and audit 

them, and if Ms. Lovelace—for example, we come in and check 

17 

every agency no less than every 3 years. And if her practices do 

not protect the merit principles and the veterans’ preference system, then, under the law, we can jerk her back into line. But, otherwise, we work with her and through the CHCO Council to make 

sure that those procedures are in place. 

Senator BURRIS. So if someone were to send you a resume, Director, and they were interested in the Labor Department, would they 

send that resume to the Labor Department or would they send it 

to you at the Office of Personnel Management? 

Mr. BERRY. They would come on to what is called USAJobs, sir. 

And they would go online, and then they would file that resume. 

And if they were to say they were interested in the Department of 

Labor, the Department of Labor has—the front-end system, if you 

will, OPM manages. 

So the first contact is through us, and your resume is there. 

Labor has a back-end system, if you will, that is like a plug that 

connects into that, that says, OK, we are hiring somebody. Let us 

look at that resume of the person who is interested in Labor. But 

Labor would actually make the hire. 

Senator BURRIS. My notes say there are 45,000 vacancies in the 

Federal agencies. Am I correct? 

Mr. BERRY. Over the course of the year, there is on average—and 

this, obviously, goes up and down. But it is about 100,000 jobs a 

year, across the entire government come open in terms of the domestic agencies. Now, the Defense Department is—— 

Senator BURRIS. Is something else. 

Mr. BERRY [continuing]. Is outside of that. 

Senator BURRIS. Right. 

Mr. BERRY. But the domestic agencies is about 100,000 openings 

a year. And when you look at that, about 30,000 of those positions—and if the staff would kick me if I am wrong or correct me 

for the record here. I think about 30,000 of those end up with veterans’ preference programs, and engaging our veterans, and re-hiring our heroes and men and women who have served. And then 

about another 10,000 of those are intern conversions. 

So that is where you end up, where you hear that number that 

is between 45,000 and 65,000, depending on how things are going, 

that the general public is open for competition. And those are the 

positions that you are thinking of that any American can come on 

to USAJobs and apply for. 

Senator BURRIS. Now, are you seeing any spike in the applications to work for the Federal Government? All these high-powered 

MBAs and mortgage bankers, and Certified Public Accountants 

(CPAs) and lawyers are being fired in corporate America. 

Are they looking to the Federal Government now for gainful employment? 

Mr. BERRY. Senator, it is interesting. And I will let my colleagues 

here help me answer. But what we are finding is, obviously, certain 

jobs, you get a title wave of applications. Other jobs, you have a 

problem where, it is a very competitive industry. 

For example, veterinarians right now, across the government, 

our veterinary schools are producing—there are more jobs and 

more demand than the students that are being produced, and so, 

we cannot fill the jobs. So that is where we have gone to special 

18 

tools, like direct hire authority, that we have let each agency now— 

if you find a vet and they are walking and breathing, hire them. 

And that is what we have done. 

Senator BURRIS. What about the MBA or the lawyer who has got 

RIF’ed from the law firm? 

Mr. BERRY. Well, now, they have to compete because right now, 

unfortunately, there is a surplus of those, and—— 

Senator BURRIS. Tell me about it. I am getting resumes in from 

everywhere, and I am trying to figure out what do I do with all 

these resumes as a senator, Mr. Chairman. People want to come 

work for the government. 

I say, well, I know Director Berry. I am going to send them over 

there. [Laughter.] 

Am I sending them to the wrong place? 

Mr. BERRY. No, sir. You send them to us and USAJobs, and we 

will do our best to link them up. But it is also my job to make sure 

that—I have to protect the merit system. 

Senator BURRIS. Oh, well, sure. You do not want to be violating 

any laws. No, you do not want to do that. 

Mr. BERRY. Right. But we will make sure that if they apply, they 

are treated fairly and they are considered fully for the positions. 

Senator BURRIS. Ms. Lovelace, now the Government Accountability Office (GAO) oversees the rules and regulations, or what is 

your role in all this? 

Ms. LOVELACE. I am at the General Services Administration 

(GSA). And at GSA, I am the Chief Human Capital Officer. And 

so, I work very closely with Mr. Berry and OPM, making sure that 

we follow through on all the rules and regulations that they put 

in place, and utilize a lot of the tools that they provide to us to 

make sure we can bring the talent into GSA. 

Senator BURRIS. You are looking for a bunch of people yourself, 

aren’t you—— 

Ms. LOVELACE. Yes, sir. 

Senator BURRIS [continuing]. With all of these requirements that 

the stimulus package has put on you, right? 

Ms. LOVELACE. Yes, sir, we are. And we just posted quite a few 

vacancy announcements on USAJobs and GSAJobs, trying to recruit some of the talent we need to be able to do that. 

Senator BURRIS. Well, maybe some of those MBAs and CPAs and 

lawyers can go on your Web site. 

Ms. LOVELACE. We welcome them, sir. 

Senator BURRIS. And is the civilian population of the Army seeing an influx of applications, Ms. Duncan? 

Ms. DUNCAN. Yes, sir, we are. Normally, we are getting around 

5,500 resumes per day. We are now up to 7,000 resumes per day. 

And each individual is applying for more positions. Usually, selfnominations were about 22,000 per day; they are up to 28,000 per 

day. So definitely, sir, yes, we are seeing an influx. 

Senator BURRIS. And what would be the grade and level of most 

of these? Do you still use the GSA terminology? 

Ms. DUNCAN. Well, sir, the Department of Defense also has the 

NSPS system. But equivalent, of course, it is the full range of occupations that we have. But the majority of our vacancies are in the 

mid range. 

19 

Senator BURRIS. Well, I know you would have some preference 

to veterans, but do they get a special preference if they are an 

Army veteran? 

Ms. DUNCAN. Oh, certainly. We follow the government rules for 

veterans’ preference. 

Senator BURRIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pretty sure I 

will have some more questions. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Senator Burris. 

We will move into the second round of questions here. 

Mr. Berry, many private sector firms are gearing up for hiring 

under the Economic Recovery Act. Career Builder has put together 

a Web site devoted to stimulus hiring and even set up a virtual career fair schedule for May 19, 2009. 

What initiatives does OPM have to prepare agencies for the Recovery Act hiring? 

Mr. BERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

What we did right out of the box was that some of the critical 

areas that we have discussed today—especially the contract and acquisition specialist was one that we tried to get right because we 

knew, with this bill coming, there was going to be a lot of funds 

expended and a lot of contracts written up. And if you did not have 

professionals in place to do that, that was going to be an area of 

great vulnerability to the government. So why that streamlining effort was done first with that position description, it was forethinking, if you will, forward for this issue. And so, I think that 

has been helpful. 

That has allowed, if you will, direct hire authority—just as I talk 

to you about the veterinary situation, for positions like this that 

are essential and critical, we have given each agency direct hire authority on the contract acquisition front. So that, right now, if 

somebody comes in, some of those MBAs and those lawyers that 

Senator Burris was talking about, and they are qualified and know 

how to handle Federal regulations and contracting procedures, they 

can be hired immediately by the agencies and put to work. 

So that is one of the first steps we have put in place, sir. 

Second is we have been working through the CHCO Council to 

identify what other positions they need help on and what other positions are critical. GSA and I, for example—Ms. Lovelace just 

asked for some special authorities that would allow her to bring retirees back and allow them to be double paid for a period of time 

so that they could be re-engaged in some of these critical areas that 

she needs to do to handle these emergency funds that we have got 

to get obligated this year to help get this economy moving. 

So we have approved those authorities for her, and we do that 

on an agency basis where that is needed. And so, we are going to 

be next week at the CHCO Council identifying what else we can 

do and how else we can make sure that agencies have what they 

need to get the people, that they can get those funds on the ground 

as the president wants. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Berry, the USAJOBS.com Web site is the 

most common way for agencies to announce Federal job vacancies 

and recruit candidates. This is a useful tool, but too many agencies 

stop right there. I believe that many agencies need to take a more 

proactive approach to recruitment. 

20 

What steps are you taking to encourage more proactive recruitment? 

Mr. BERRY. Mr. Chairman, I think that is a great question, and 

it goes right to the point of one of the things I hope to be able to 

do, is to work with the Michigan and Ohio delegations on, for example, that job fair we were talking about with people from the 

auto industry who either have been laid off or are facing layoffs in 

the very near future, so that we can get job fairs on the ground and 

try to match—— 

Senator Burris, just like you were saying, if there is an engineer 

who is getting laid off from Chrysler or from General Motors, and 

we have a shortage of engineers in the Federal Government right 

now, let’s make that a marriage made in heaven and hire that person, and get them to work right away for the Federal Government. 

So we are going to look at much more aggressive and creative recruitment approaches, sir, not just relying on a passive system. Although it is a great system, it needs to get better, and it will. And 

it needs to be more user friendly, and we need to do that. And it 

has got to be—I was interested in Ms. Duncan’s idea about the 

interactivity, where you can follow and check on where your resume is and the status. The trouble we have is we have so many, 

it is hard sometimes to connect that up as accurately as we want 

to. And so, I am going to get with Ms. Duncan and figure out how 

we can do that better. 

But those are just a few of the steps, Mr. Chairman, and I would 

defer to my colleagues for other good suggestions. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Berry, you testified about the importance of 

an essay to use the application process. I am encouraged by your 

work to make job announcements more clear and to simplify the 

applications process. As you know, however, many job announcements still are filed with confusing jargon and require lengthy 

knowledge, skills, and ability essays, which may deter candidates 

from even applying. 

How are you addressing this problem, and do you believe legislation addressing these specific issues would be helpful? 

Mr. BERRY. Mr. Chairman, I have to tell you a funny story. My 

first week on the job, I had a hearing on the House side, and I 

talked about this. I have to say, I mentioned when people were explaining the hiring process and a lot of the terminology that was 

used in it, after about 2 hours into the briefing, I said I felt like 

I had uncovered the lost language of Atlantis because it was so specifically written. I had to stop them almost every other word in the 

sentence and say, what does that term mean, what is that acronym? 

I am little afraid to say that here I am now 4 weeks into the job, 

and I am starting to actually understand the language. It is dangerous. It is sucking me in. I am trying to keep distant enough 

from it, sir, so it does not overtake us. 

But I used an analogy in a speech earlier this week that in our 

prairie grassland systems, oftentimes you need a fire, a controlled 

burn, to burn off the dead grass, and that is the only way that 

fresh grass can grow. We need a controlled burn through our regulations and through our building that will take out a lot of the dead 

wood, old language, and KSAs with it. And my hope is if we can 

21 

clear away a lot of that, and sufficient amounts of it, we are going 

to see some fresh growth there that is going to be in plain English, 

that Americans across our country can apply for jobs, know what 

they are applying for, match their resume to it, and have a fair 

shot at competing fairly for it. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Berry, our second panel person, Ms. Rix’s 

written statement describes the benefits of using a structured questionnaire to simplify the application process and help applicants 

understand job requirements. 

Is OPM encouraging more extensive use of structured questionnaires in place of essays? 

Mr. BERRY. Yes, sir, as well as moving to the more resume approach. I mean, most Americans are used to applying for a job with 

a resume. And I think we need to be fair and careful. You know, 

I never use the same resume twice. When I was applying for jobs, 

you would always update it; you would tailor it to the job you were 

applying for. 

So I do not want to mislead Americans and say—they are not 

going to serve themselves well if they just create one resume and 

use the same resume to apply for 20 different jobs. Hopefully, people are going to be smart just like they are with the private sector. 

They are going to tailor that resume to the position that they are 

applying for that allows them to come to the top. And they need 

to because, right now, in many of these positions, the popular positions, we are not getting just 10, 20, 30, or 100 resumes. We are 

getting thousands of resumes for positions, and weeding through 

those is quite an arduous task that we are wrestling with. 

So we are going to work on that, Senator. I think the resume approach is the way to go. We hope to move to that more carefully 

and quickly over the course of this year, and I think you are going 

to see good results from it. 

Senator AKAKA. On this question of streamlining jobs, Ms. Duncan and Ms. Lovelace, I would like to follow up with you. 

What are your agencies doing to streamline job announcements? 

Ms. DUNCAN. Sir, we certainly are looking at our job announcements, and we are looking at the system to update our automated 

system, where you go in and ask the applicant certain questions 

and streamline the process that way. In fact, we are going into a 

pilot test of it. We are starting the training this month. So even 

though we have a good system, there is always room for improvement, so we are constantly looking at that. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. Ms. Lovelace. 

Ms. LOVELACE. I actually could answer in the same way. I happened to go on our Web site the other day to take a look at a couple 

of our vacancy announcements. The staff is certainly telling me 

that we have already streamlined some of them. And, yes, we have, 

but, clearly, I think we can do a lot more to streamline that process. 

Mr. Chairman, if I may, I would like to add on to something that 

Mr. Berry talked about related to recovery. You asked him what 

was OPM doing. But I actually think OPM is doing a lot more than 

what he suggested to you. They have been working with agencies 

to be able to identify the recovery jobs on USAJOBS.gov. If you go 

on the site, you can actually see that it is a recovery job, it is clearVerDate Nov 24 2008 10:16 Apr 14, 2010 Jkt 051024 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\51024.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
22 

ly identified that way, and I think that is going to help us fill our 

jobs quickly. 

I also love the partnership that we have with them, that when 

we need a tool like dual compensation waivers for our re-employed 

annuitants, we are able to work with OPM to get those special authorities that we need, in fact, to help us fill those critical jobs. 

As you know, we really do not have a lot of time to get all of our 

recovery work done, and so it is very important that we are able 

to hire skilled talent, not the people that are coming in that we 

have to train, but skilled talent that can come in and hit the 

ground running. And we think hiring re-employed annuitants is a 

really good way for us to be able to meet that change. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Ms. Lovelace. Senator 

Voinovich. 

Senator VOINOVICH. I just wish I knew that everybody had a Gail 

Lovelace. 

Ms. LOVELACE. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Obviously, you understand workforce flexibilities. We ought to grant them, I think, in some of these agencies 

to say, there they are, you can use them now, to eliminate some 

of the paper work. 

You are in a strategic position. It is like somebody should be sitting back and saying we have all this going on out there, and then 

look at various agencies to see where you have some critical spots 

that we have had some difficulty, like the veterinarians. 

I will give you an example of how this can work. Five or 6 years 

ago, I had the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) under my jurisdiction. I still oversee NRC as Ranking Member with Tom Carper. But anyhow, we anticipated that there was going to be a real 

need for people at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission because we 

knew that a lot of them were going to be retiring. We also understood that we would be getting some applications for nuclear reactors. For example, right now, we have 17 applications for 26 reactors. So they are not only going to have to do the job of re-licensing, 

they are also going to have to have the capacity to do the applications coming in. 

So we got out and contacted Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Ohio State, and the University of Michigan. We even 

got money from the Department of Energy, I think it was $15 or 

$20 million, as seed money to keep students interested. 

So I am just saying, as you look back and you say, well, we need 

more vets, the word should go out. We need the vets here, we need 

the vets there; maybe even look at some of the veterinarian 

schools—I mean, it is harder to get in the veterinarian school at 

Ohio State University than the medical school. 

But I am just saying you have this wonderful opportunity, and 

I would think to look back and say, how do we really take advantage of this situation, and be very strategic? You are getting all 

these applications. Well, they ought to be prioritized. Hey, this is 

our shot, man. We can get some people that ordinarily maybe we 

might not be able to get. It is about the big picture. 

Let’s get into specifics. Security clearance. This issue has been on 

the high-risk list for a long time. Senator Akaka and I thought the 

Administration was going to do something. The Bush AdministraVerDate Nov 24 2008 10:16 Apr 14, 2010 Jkt 051024 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\51024.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
23 

tion said, you know what, we have looked at this thing and we 

have to start from scratch. 

So they put in a lot of work, and you had some really good people 

that were on that. You had OPM, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), and General Clapper over at the Department of Defense. And it is my understanding that this clearance 

application was ready to be used at the end of December of last 

year, and now it is on ‘‘hold,’’ pending further review by OPM. 

I would like you to commit today that you can get back to us in 

2 weeks, where we are with this. I am tired of it. I want this off 

the list before I leave the Senate. 

Mr. BERRY. OK. Thank you, Senator. 

I share your concern on it. I actually have a meeting with those 

gentlemen next week about this very issue, sir, and look forward 

to this. I was not aware that this was pending with us, Senator, 

so that is the first that I have heard that we are on hold on this. 

So I will get to the bottom of that, quite frankly, and get back to 

you. 

I can tell you this. There has been some good news and some 

progress. And this is one where we have worked in close cooperation and partnership with the Department of Defense. There was 

a 3-year backlog in doing the investigations on folks and getting it 

over, and DOD transferred that function to OPM. And I have met 

with and been briefed by our Senior Executive Service (SES) who 

leads that, a woman named Kathy Dillaman. And she, God bless 

her, has done a pretty darn good job, and the Defense Department 

recognizes that. 

We have worked through the 3-year backlog, and the average 

time line for every investigation right now is 90 days. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Listen, I am aware of that. They have done 

a better job; we are making progress. But the thing that I am referring to is the revised clearance form. And according to my information, OPM is holding it up. 

Mr. BERRY. Well, Senator, I will find out about that. Like I said, 

that is news to me. I have no letter pending from the Defense Department or CAA that has been brought to my attention in the 4 

weeks I have been on the job, and no one has called me from those 

agencies. So I am a little blindsided here about that, sir. I will get 

to the bottom of it and find it out. But I can tell you I am meeting 

with both of those gentlemen at the White House next week, and 

I will get to the bottom of it. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Thank you. 

Ms. Duncan, do you use any third-party groups to recruit or do 

you do it all on your own? 

Ms. DUNCAN. Sir, we, of course, partner with OPM. In terms of— 

are you referring to private agencies? 

Senator VOINOVICH. Yes. 

Ms. DUNCAN. I cannot say that it is never done out there because 

much recruitment of the volume that we do, it is possible. I am not 

aware of it, but I can certainly find out and submit that for the 

record. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Have you looked at your budget in terms of 

the money you need for advertising and technology and things? 

Will it allow you to do the job that you need to do? 

24 

Mr. BERRY. Senator, that is something we are going—the budget 

came up today, and, obviously, that was kind of pretty much in the 

bag and in the box, if you will, when I walked in the door. So I 

did not have much of an opportunity to have much influence on 

that. I think we will have the flexibility, hopefully, to work with 

the Subcommittee, both here and with the Appropriations Committee. 

We might need to move some things around to have that flexibility because I do not know—right now, it is an interesting thing. 

Thirty percent of our budget is controlled by direct appropriations 

and direct response to my tiller, if you will. Almost 65 to 70 percent 

of the budget is direct reimbursable as services to the agencies. 

And so, that somewhat responds to my tiller, but, as you can imagine, it also responds heavily to who is paying the bill. 

Senator VOINOVICH. Well, I know this. The Administration has 

come in, and they have had to put a budget together. And probably 

the next budget will be the one that will reflect the real priorities 

of the Obama Administration—I know how that is; I have been 

through it. 

But the thing that I want you to know is that Senator Akaka and 

I are very interested in giving you the resources that you need to 

get the job done—— 

Mr. BERRY. Well, thank you, Senator. 

Senator VOINOVICH [continuing]. Now in appropriations. I just 

want to let you know that I would like to know what you need. 

Mr. BERRY. Great. 

Senator VOINOVICH. And I know you are going to have a certain 

muzzle on you because of the OMB, but the fact is that I do not 

want, a year from now, to have you come in and testify and say, 

I am sorry, but we do not have the resources to get the job done; 

and if you only did that, I would be in a better position to do what 

you want me to do. 

I think we have a lot of that in a lot of other agencies here. I 

think we have short-circuited them. They have not paid enough attention, having the right people with the right knowledge. Too 

often, we are asking you to do a job, and we do not give you the 

people and we do not give you the resources to do your work. 

So I really want to know about that, and I am sure Senator 

Akaka wants to know the same thing. And I would also like to get 

an answer to a question that I asked 10 years ago. What percentage of these department budgets are being used for training? 

Mr. BERRY. Well, that is a great question, sir. And we will get 

back to you on the record on that. 

Senator VOINOVICH. OK. Thank you. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Senator Voinovich. 

Mr. Berry, during your confirmation process, you said that you 

envision yourself as the ‘‘Recruiter in Chief’’ for the Federal Government. That is a big task and an important one. I understand 

OPM provides policy support to Federal agencies on recruitment, 

but does not have one office focused on government-wide recruitment and promoting the civil service. 

What do you think about creating an office that focuses solely on 

Federal recruitment? 

25 

Mr. BERRY. Senator, one of the things I am looking at right 

now—and I was actually discussing with Ms. Lovelace yesterday 

and will be discussing more with my colleagues at OPM and 

through the CHCO Council—is our current organizational structure is not really functionally driven. It is not functionally based. 

And so, it is very hard to track exactly where the accountability, 

where the responsibility for those functions are. 

So one of the things we are looking at, and we will look forward 

to be doing, is to try to create greater functionality in our organizational chart. I think that is going to be helpful not only for our own 

employees and our managers, but also for the CHCO Council. People need to know where to go, and there is no question that recruitment is going to be one of those key functional areas. So it has got 

to jump out at you, and it has got to be easy to reach, and it has 

got to be fully staffed. 

I can promise you this. Part of the reform in this effort is not 

just on the hiring—I look at this as a two-sided coin we have to 

get right. We have to fix the hiring process, but, we at the same 

time, have to fix our recruitment process so it can be targeted, aggressive, enthusiastic; that we can use every approach that the private sector uses, from job fairs, targeted advertisement, being 

smart about how we can use some of these new technologies. 

Wouldn’t it be great if a job announcement would fit on the Twitter 

system? And getting that word out there. 

And so, we are going to do that. I look forward to coming back 

to you, sir, within the next year and, hopefully, having a much 

more functionally driven organization that will call out recruitment 

and do just what you identified, sir. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. This will be my final question to the 

panel. 

We have heard many recommendations and suggestions made to 

improve the recruitment process, and we will hear more from the 

second panel. I would like each of the witnesses to identify the top 

three recommendations that you believe would improve the recruitment efforts of Federal agencies. 

Let me start with Ms. Duncan, Ms. Lovelace, and then Mr. 

Berry. 

Ms. DUNCAN. Sir, I would go back to my previous analogy of 

gaining too much weight. We need to get the hiring process on a 

diet; we need to take off the things that we absolutely do not need; 

and we need to concentrate on what is really important, finding the 

best candidate for the job. And so, I would like to roll all three of 

those into one answer and say, we just need to get back to the basics. 

Senator AKAKA. Ms. Lovelace. 

Ms. LOVELACE. I would like to see us actually engage management more early on in the process and really work on improving 

our workforce planning, and how that leads to them being able to 

accomplish their mission in a much more aggressive way. 

I would also like to get back to the basics, as Ms. Duncan is talking about. And that is really why we have done lean hiring. When 

I think about the basics, I am looking at improving our Information 

Technology (IT) systems, our processes, our human capacity to do 

26 

all of this work, and to upscale our workforce. I am going to stick 

with those two. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. Mr. Berry. 

Mr. BERRY. Mr. Chairman, I would have two as well. The first 

would be plain language, and I think we can do that. The second, 

it really comes directly from the President. And that is, we have 

to make government cool again. And I have become an old fogey 

myself. I turned 50 this year, and so I may not be the best person 

to talk to about ‘‘twittering’’ and a lot of the things that we need 

to be doing. So I am going to be smart enough to hire some young 

folks. And so, one of those wolf pack teams I have been talking to 

you about is going to be led by graduating students who are coming 

right out of their MBA/MPA programs right now. 

I figure, if you want to stay cool, do not come to Ms. Lovelace 

and me for the ideas, although she is much younger. We have to 

go to the next generation. We have to leap frog and pick their 

brains for how we can make it cool, and how can we reach kids, 

and how can we connect up so that the next generation can answer 

the President’s call to come to the service of their country. We have 

to succeed in that, and we are going to leave no stone unturned in 

doing that. 

So making it cool again, so that the next generation will fill the 

retirement wave, that when we (Ms. Lovelace, Ms. Duncan, and I) 

30 years from now are ready to retire, there will be a next generation ready to fill those spots. And that is one of the things we are 

going to do, sir. So I would narrow it down to two for you: Plain 

language and being cool. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Berry, Ms. Duncan, 

and Ms. Lovelace, for your testimony as well as your responses to 

all of our questions. And I want to tell you, thank you very much 

for all your recommendations, and we look forward to working with 

you to improve our system. You have been very helpful to this Subcommittee, and I thank you very much for being here. 

Mr. BERRY. Thank you. 

Ms. LOVELACE. Thank you, sir. 

Senator AKAKA. Our second panel will be Max Stier and Linda 

Rix. Mr. Stier is the President and Chief Executive Officer of the 

Partnership for Public Service, and Ms. Rix is the Co-Chief Executive Officer of Avue Technologies Corporation. 

It is a custom of this Subcommittee to swear all witnesses in, so 

I ask you to please rise and raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 

this Subcommittee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 

the truth, so help you, God? 

Mr. STIER. I do. 

Ms. RIX. I do. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much. Let the record note that 

the responses were in the affirmative. 

I just want you to know that your full statements will be made 

a part of the record, and that your oral statements should be 5 

minutes. Let me say again, welcome to both of you, and Mr. Stier 

will you please proceed with your statement? 

27 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Stier appears in the Appendix on page 58. 

TESTIMONY OF MAX STIER,1 PRESIDENT AND CHIEF 

EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PARTNERSHIP FOR PUBLIC SERVICE 

Mr. STIER. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for inviting me 

here, and thank you for all the amazing work you have done for 

public service, including authoring the resolution establishing Public Service Recognition Week, recognition that the Congress has 

given, which I think is so important, and for speaking to the Service to America Medals finalists yesterday. You will note that you 

received a rousing ovation when it was mentioned that you are authoring a piece of legislation on fixing the hiring process. It is hitting a real chord. 

There clearly is a huge opportunity here. We all know that. We 

are seeing a generational wave, the 1930s, 1960s, or 1970s, and 

now we estimate that there will be upwards of 600,000 jobs that 

will be filled in the next 4 years, the first term for President 

Obama. It is going to be setting the traces for dealing with today’s 

problems, but also future problems. 

There clearly needs to be a lot of things done, and I break them 

down into a couple of categories. One is the blocking and tackling, 

the very basic things. And we have talked a fair bit about the hiring process, or you have spoken about the hiring process, which is 

absolutely vital. Your legislation is terrific. 

Again, I always think that there are things that can be done in 

addition to that. You touched on one of them, which was a question 

about a government-wide human capital plan. And I would like to 

have an opportunity, if it is possible, to talk further about responding to Mr. Berry. 

Unfortunately, I think the time frame we have requires us to do 

everything at the same time because in the here and now, we face 

that massive wave. We cannot wait a year. And, frankly, as the director himself said, if you do not do your planning right, then you 

are shooting in the dark. You have to start there. And we do not 

have a government-wide plan. 

Even Senator Voinovich talked about the need for nuclear engineers. In the testimony that Mr. Berry gave, he talked about acquisition professionals. You need to have full field of view. And single 

agencies looking at their needs is important, but the government 

has to operate as one corporate entity, and that requires somebody 

with a government-wide view—and that has not happened, and I 

think we lose a lot of opportunities as a result. So I would posit 

that is real important. 

A second thing that would be dramatic would be requiring every 

agency to map their hiring process and make it public. I think that 

transparency would create an incentive for change in a very dramatic way. I bet you most agencies do not really know what their 

hiring process looks like, and I bet they would respond to changing 

it if they had to make it public. So one area for the blocking and 

tackling would be the hiring process. 

Another would be student internships; again, very basic. The report that we put out, being generous, the government converts only 

6 percent of its student interns into full-time employees. Army does 

58 percent; that is terrific. That is a normal benchmark. You have 

28 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Rix appears in the Appendix on page 70. 

to be starting from the beginning, looking at student interns as a 

primary source of talent, and we do not do that right now. 

Beyond the blocking and tackling, we need inspiration. And I 

would love to see you take the leadership role on the Roosevelt 

Scholars notion, which is scholarship for service. And the idea, 

really, is very straightforward, and that is the civilian ROTC. The 

military gets 40 percent of its officers from the ROTC program. We 

do not need to duplicate it at that scale on the civilian side, but 

it would be a way of truly re-branding government service by creating a civilian ROTC-like program. 

I think that in all of this, we have to ask ourselves a question. 

Why haven’t things changed already? Clearly, there is a lot of frustration, and I think that the question has to be addressed at the 

front end. And I think there are two primary reasons for this. One 

is that we do not have leadership commitment beyond the HR leadership in making sure that leaders and managers are focusing on 

these people issues. And the second is that we have a lack of transparency, a lack of information. 

Senator Voinovich said, I have asked 10 years ago how much 

money agencies are spending on training. It is crazy not to know 

the answer to that question. We do not know the answers to a 

whole lot of things that would have an impact, including what the 

hiring process looks like. 

Case in point. Between 2003 and 2007, I think DHS lost 75 percent—or 72 percent, almost three-quarters of its career SES. We do 

not know why. We should have been doing exit interviews. We 

should be doing exit interviews of our SES so we understand not 

only why they are leaving but what could be done better. 

There are a lot of things we could do in the way of developing 

information that would create a dramatic difference, and I would 

be happy to talk about any of these issues further. But, again, I 

very much appreciate the leadership you have taken already and 

look forward to working with you. So thank you so much. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much for your testimony. 

Ms. Rix, please proceed with your testimony. 

TESTIMONY OF LINDA E.B. RIX,1 CO-CHIEF EXECUTIVE 

OFFICER, AVUE TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION 

Ms. RIX. Thank you, Chairman Akaka. Thanks very much for 

asking us to appear here before this Subcommittee on this issue. 

My name is Linda Rix, and I am the Co-Chief Executive Officer 

of Avue Technologies Corporation. We are a company that provides 

a technology platform that is Web based, and it is provided specifically to enable Federal managers and hiring managers, as well as 

HR professionals, a method to efficiently, economically, and effectively do hiring. We are part of a new media group. 

We are where the rubber meets the road. We are actually where 

operating practices can be examined. We tend to focus a lot on data 

as opposed to anecdotes to determine if something is or is not 

working. One of the areas that may surprise you is for every 

human resource full-time equivalent (FTE) that exists in the FedVerDate Nov 24 2008 10:16 Apr 14, 2010 Jkt 051024 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\51024.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
29 

1The chart from Ms. Rix appears in the Appendix on page 73. 

2The chart referred to appears in the Appendix on page 74. 

eral Government at roughly an average labor rate of $140,000 a 

year, that FTE will hire 12 people, 10 to 12 people per year. 

So the hiring process does underscore, and the results of the hiring process underscore, the importance of the legislation you have 

proposed. I would say that even though we know that much can be 

done within the existing framework and within the existing administrative processes, that your legislation, and the key reason for it, 

will produce change. 

Change is very difficult in the Federal Government sector. We 

have a lot of experience trying to get agencies to change various 

practices. And what we have learned from that is that if legislation 

is proposed, and if governing rules are developed around that legislation, that it gives permission for change to occur, which is one of 

the most important things that can happen here. So we believe in 

the Federal Hiring Process Improvement Act, and we think it is 

necessary, and we think it is timely. 

I have a couple of things up here that I just want to point out 

to you with respect to new media in terms of economical capabilities to do successful recruiting. One of them is this chart over 

here,1 and it may be a little bit confusing, but I just want to point 

out a key statistic. 

When people go online to search for job opportunities, at that 

point, 97 percent of the searches are for specific jobs. Let’s just take 

engineering since we have that theme. Those job searches are done 

through MSN, AOL, Yahoo!, and Google. Eighty percent of the applicants Avue sources for Federal Government agencies come from 

those four sources, and 10 percent or less come from USAJobs. So 

it is important to have an Internet presence. 

The second chart that you are seeing there is our portal for the 

stimulus hiring that the U.S. Forest Service is doing, which is an 

Avue client.2 That is a specific job portal designed just to recruit 

jobs for their stimulus hiring initiative. Not surprisingly, applicants prefer sites like this, that are tailored to their specific interests and their specific needs. 

We are the technology solution that the Department of Defense 

has determined they will be using in the future. We have here two 

job portals, again, specific to procurement and acquisition personnel, and hiring of medical personnel. We are able to produce 

information on these job sites that takes a very long vacancy announcement and puts it into a form that is a very simple job summary. It looks just like this chart that you are seeing here. It focuses on a single screen image in which all the crucial information 

is provided. 

So there is not a lot that has to be done that has not already 

been done. There are plenty of agencies that have great experiences 

with applicant involvement, with applicant relationship management. They also have great experiences with category rating, the 

use of alternative appointing authorities, and other types of flexibilities. That message needs to come out, but for other agencies to 

start adopting those practices, we really need your legislation, and 

30 

we need you to do more along those lines because it is a crucial 

piece of this. 

One other point that I think underscores this—and I want to get 

to it because of the common complaint that the Federal hiring process is daunting. What Avue has found is that 92 percent of the applicants that start the structured questionnaire will complete the 

questionnaire and submit an application. So it is a 92 percent retention rate. So that tells us a lot about the approach and how the 

approach can be used to improve retention. 

We also are very good at putting information in front of managers at the time they are ready to recruit, information about their 

workforce planning goals, information about their underrepresentation, information that leads them to understand what kind of recruitment strategy they want to have take place. 

Finally, we have agencies that use open continuous announcements, of which we are advocates. So instead of posting jobs individually, they are consistently recruiting on a broad basis all of the 

time for those positions. That takes recruitment down from months 

to hours. So a hiring manager can hire much more rapidly. 

We think that you are doing the right thing. We think it could 

not be more timely. We really would hope that you would do more 

to help make it possible for agencies to adopt some of these innovations. Mahalo. 

Senator AKAKA. All right. Mahalo. 

Thank you very much for your testimonies. We continue to hear 

that agencies are not using the recruitment and hiring flexibilities. 

And you heard Senator Voinovich highlight flexibilities, such as 

student loan repayment and category rating, that Congress has 

provided to them. We have heard various reasons for why agencies 

are not using them, from budget limitations to lack of awareness. 

You heard the first panel’s response to this question. But my 

question to you is why do you think agencies are not using this 

range of recruitment and hiring flexibilities available to them? 

Ms. RIX. I will take that. 

There are approximately 165 different Federal Government hiring, appointing authorities. Each one has a complete set of regulations around it. In order for a human resources office to find the 

best avenue to hire people, that human resources office really does 

need state-of-the-art technology. It is impossible to implement the 

governing body of regulations. 

One thing I think that is missing from this discussion that does 

need to be inserted into it, Federal Government hiring is done not 

just for the purpose of filling positions; there are also some public 

policy reasons. Veterans, for example, and the ability to hire veterans that are returning from war. 

As a result of that, a lot of the policies that we have in place are 

designed to help with respect to those kinds of things. What we 

have done is we ask applicants through a structured questionnaire, 

a series of questions. And then when the hiring manager sees the 

list of candidates, that hiring manager can see all the possible 

ways that person can be hired. That person, not just all the possible ways a vacancy can be posted, but all the possible ways a person can be brought on board into the government, whether it is a 

31 

Veterans Readjustment Act (VRA), whether it is a returning Peace 

Corps volunteer, whatever possible flexibility. 

There is one paradigm we have to overcome—and I am hoping, 

very hopeful, that your legislation will help with this. One paradigm we have to overcome is in the traditional HR world, HR specialists see their role as screening out applicants, not screening 

them in, and often, these regulations are used as a method to do 

that. So one thing that helps with that is being able to have the 

capability to apply all the rules against a particular applicant and 

say, this applicant can actually be hired this way. And that points 

to different appointing authorities and different hiring flexibilities. 

I would suggest that it is only possible to do that, really, with 

robust technology. It would be very difficult to do that in a paper 

manual process or in some of the processes that Federal Government agencies use today. 

Senator AKAKA. I’d like to follow-up on that. Many Federal agencies have limited resources to invest in recruitment programs. You 

testified about the value that technology systems can add to the recruitment process. 

How much of an upfront investment do such systems require, 

and do you believe they ultimately are cost effective? 

Ms. RIX. I believe that in traditional use of technology, it was 

cost prohibitive. In today’s world, both with new media and the capability to economically reach millions and millions of people— 

every year, Avue processes millions and millions of applicants. 

Each applicant is treated as if they are a unique entity. They receive e-mails about their status. They have 24/7 capability to look 

up their status and look up where the hiring action is in the process. They get 72-hour notifications if they started to apply for a job 

but did not complete it and the announcement is closing. 

All of that is done at a very inexpensive level because Avue offers 

its services on what is called a Software as a Service model. There 

are no capital investments. There is no need to buy hardware. 

There is no need for major capital investments like you would find 

in a very big major software deployment. 

So we have approached it differently. The Internet gives you the 

broadest possible outreach. We have 1,600 .org and .edu sites on 

our recruitment sources library that automatically broadcast every 

Avue agency job announcement to all of those sites; 1,600 sites 

comprised of diversity groups, professional associations, colleges, 

universities. And it costs nothing. It does not even cost the cost of 

postage. So you have this capability to hit a very broad market, 

and at the same time be very specific in how you approach them. 

So I would say to you that as technology has evolved, this process has become much more economically feasible. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. 

Just to give you a chance at this, Mr. Stier, the first question I 

asked was what do you think about agencies not using the range 

of recruitment and hiring flexibilities available? Do you have any 

further comment on that? 

Mr. STIER. Thank you, Senator, and absolutely. Look, I think you 

raised a couple of issues: Resources and information. I think the 

truth of the matter is, there are a bunch of different reasons why 

they do not do it. And I would think that the next question is what 

32 

can you do about it because there are a variety of reasons. And I 

would offer probably at least three possibilities of approaching this. 

The first would be to ask the agencies, because one of the things 

we do not do enough of is ask the agencies themselves and to collect information from them, to ask them the question that was 

asked here, to prioritize what they need from Congress in order to 

be able to use these flexibilities. 

I think a starting point is you have to really have the information about what flexibilities are being used, and it is spotty. You 

have some information on student loan repayment, but on a lot of 

the other flexibilities, we do not really know. And so, it would be 

quite interesting to actually inventory the flexibilities, find out who 

is using them, and to survey the folks, what their experience has 

been, why they are not using it if they are not, and what could be 

done to actually make it more useful for them. And I think that 

would be a pretty powerful driver to getting the answers that you 

need. 

The other piece that I think is true, and I think this is writ large 

and it is not just about the flexibilities, is that these are issues 

that, again, are never given prioritization by the leadership in the 

agency. And at the end of the day, more often than not, you have 

the managers that are walled off from the HR hiring process. You 

have the leadership that does not pay attention to the talent 

issues. And as a result, I do not think you will ever get to the right 

answers unless you are able to get those leaders to care enough 

about it to invest in it. And people find solutions. They will find 

solutions if they think it is important. And we just have not had 

the push to make it important. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Stier, the Federal Government must attract 

and hire employees at all levels of experience. You testified about 

several barriers to successful governmental recruiting, which may 

undermine recruiting of young professionals and college students in 

particular. 

In your view, what is the single most important change the Federal Government must make to attract young professionals? 

Mr. STIER. To attract them, I think the most important change 

is for the government to become an active recruiter and to get more 

information out about the opportunities that are available to talented people that might attract them, to have people that are near 

peers, present the case for why it is that talented people should 

think about the government. 

We released survey data from Gallup today that suggests that 

there is a much larger appetite for government service than there 

ever has been, a 16 percentage point jump and interest in government. I think that attracting them is real important. The hiring 

process is likely to turn an awful lot of them off. And then when 

they arrive and they are not vested in, they are going to be turned 

off even further. 

Senator AKAKA. You discussed, Mr. Stier, the length of the hiring 

process as a recruitment barrier as well. As you know, our hiring 

bill would require an 80-day time frame. 

Would that adequately address the problem, and is that an 

achievable time line? 

33 

Mr. STIER. It would not address it in and of itself because I 

think, for many folks, it is not just how long it takes, but it is what 

they know about where they are in the process. If you are applying 

to be a foreign service officer, and you know it is going to take 80 

days, or 90 days, or 6 months, a lot of talent might wait. But if 

you do not know where you are, if it could be 6 months, or a year, 

or 2 months, then you are going to lose a lot of folks. 

If it is a process that is so hard and so unrelated to what you 

expect is relevant to the job, you will also be turned off. And it will 

depend a little bit on the nature of the job, because for some talent, 

you might actually have folks that could wait longer than for other 

positions. 

I think this is, again, something that we need to be careful not 

to have only one size fits all. I think 80 days is an outside limit. 

Again, the research suggests that most talent, when you are thinking about entry-level professional folks, do not want to wait more 

than 6 weeks, and that is two-thirds of the folks. So you need to 

push, I think, even better than that, but it would be an improvement in many circumstances if you could get it even down to 80 

days. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. Ms. Rix, I would like to hear your 

thoughts as well on how much of a problem slow Federal hiring is, 

and what should be done about that. 

Ms. RIX. One of the things that the hiring process is often criticized about is the length of time it takes. I would suggest three 

things. One is that we have been able, with the use of open, continuous announcements and these types of specialized recruitment 

portals, to go from start to hire in 10 days. We have taken client 

agencies—I think the outlier was an average of 270 days to hire 

down to under 20. So it is possible to do that. 

With the right capabilities, reaching applicants, keeping them informed of where they are in the hiring process, I would agree with 

Mr. Stier, is crucial. And the ability to constantly reach out to them 

and ask them, are you still available, are you still interested, we 

are still interested in you; and we have filled 10 jobs this week, and 

in the coming months we expect to fill another 50 jobs. 

So what we ask them to do is click here and say, ‘‘Yes, I am still 

interested; keep my application active.’’ And so, they are automatically considered as new opportunities come up. I think that is important to do because it does keep the interest level up. 

The third is, I would like to see the bill somewhat strengthened 

with a requirement for the Office of Personnel Management, when 

they take this aggregated data about workforce planning and this 

idea of a single, comprehensive workforce plan, I think what is 

most important for OPM to do is set policy—and I am going to pick 

on the engineering example again for a second. 

I think that it is true, not just in the State of Ohio but in many 

places, that you do have talented people that you want to bring in 

whose industries have been adversely impacted and whose skills 

are a critical shortage skill in the government today. 

The engineering qualifications standard that is used is onerous, 

almost impossible to implement, and extremely difficult. It requires 

college education and training. Where an engineer may certify in 

the private sector without college education or training and still be 

34 

an engineer, that does not cross over into the Federal Government. 

It is an absolute impediment. 

So I think that OPM needs to take these workforce plans, identify the critical occupations the government is going to be recruiting for, do a deep dive into the actual labor market conditions, how 

we can source these applicants and bring them over, how to qualify 

them through the assessment process so that they could be hired 

more easily and efficiently. And that requires some occupational 

studies, and that requires a great deal of effort. 

Unfortunately, OPM’s own workforce only has an HR population 

of 7.5 percent. That means that they are at a severe deficit in the 

capability to act on some of these initiatives. The organization 

needs to be strengthened. The appropriations side of the organization, which, as Mr. Berry said is 30 percent, has been operating at 

that capacity for over a decade. It needs to have a strengthened 

core HR professional workforce that can address some of these 

issues, or we will not be able to bring people across easily and efficiently. 

Senator AKAKA. Ms. Rix, OPM has developed the End-to-End 

Hiring Road Map that includes ways agencies can improve their recruitment efforts. You have heard OPM discuss some of their efforts on this front. 

Does the End-to-End Hiring Road Map provide a good framework 

for the reforms you recommend or would you recommend re-thinking that road map? 

Ms. RIX. That is an excellent question. I would recommend rethinking the road map only from this standpoint. I love the road 

map. I think it shows a very substantive, thoughtful process that 

goes from workforce planning all the way to training and development. You take a person through that whole process, and you are 

likely to have a candidate that has high-retention capability, will 

stay with the government, and make the government a career, and 

we need that. 

What I do not agree with, necessarily, relative to the road map, 

is the artificial constraint of trying to dictate that process. Often, 

OPM’s best role is to set policy, provide leadership and vision, and 

set standards. When they get involved in pieces of the process, that 

is when we start to see them try to operationalize their strategy 

in a government agency that needs to have their strategy more 

closely linked with the agency’s mission rather than a governing 

set of HR rules and regulations. Not to say that they are always 

in conflict, but it is not true that the U.S. Government is a single 

corporate entity. It is true that the U.S. Government is more representative of the Fortune 500 or, as I call it, the Fortune 134. 

So when you look at the number of agencies, the uniqueness of 

their mission, that dictates the uniqueness of their recruitment 

strategy, their workforce planning needs, and their employee development needs. I would rather see a framework that I would urge 

that OPM be guided to; let agencies then work within that framework and set their own processes and procedures in place; adopt 

the technology solutions that make sense to them, and then move 

that forward. 

I would say, one thing that is really missing is on the security 

side. We are in a situation where a lot of people are financially 

35 

stressed and a lot of people are unemployed. Those are two major 

deterrents to getting a security clearance in the government. So 

you have a compound, cascading effect of a bad economy where you 

have lost your job, and you potentially have incurred poor credit 

ratings as a result of that. And you cannot get a job with the government because its own security framework and policies is not in 

tune to realistically what is available in the labor market, and that 

needs to change. 

Where OPM can best spend its time and invest in that time is 

not necessarily just in the new form and these other areas, but 

also, let’s look realistically at whether we are applying the same security guidelines and protocols that we had in the 1960s to a workforce that is in the 2000s, and what can we do to change that? 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. 

Mr. Stier, would you like to comment on OPM’s End-to-End Hiring Road Map? 

Mr. STIER. I think that, again, like Ms. Rix, I think it is a good 

effort, and I think it is an important effort to lay out. What I envision is it should not be a constraining process but should be a guiding process. 

As your earlier question indicated, I actually think that agencies 

can do even better than that, but I think it is helpful, again, to 

have a framework that can be the source of at least guidance and 

conversation across government. I do think that the goals have to 

be even more aggressive than we have seen laid out there, but, 

once more, it is better than what exists, in many instances, for 

many Federal agencies. 

You do have the opportunity, with examples like the Army Civilian Personnel System, where agencies are doing really great 

things. And that could be duplicated by other agencies, and I think 

that is something that, as Mr. Berry suggested he would do, ought 

to be explored. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Stier, the Partnership for Public Service 

wrote a report in 2006 on the need for improvements in the government’s HR workforce. This issue seems to be an underlying challenge to improving recruitment and hiring. I would like to hear 

your thoughts on how we can help improve the HR workforce. 

Mr. STIER. Well, I think, again, Ms. Rix pointed out I think a 

very useful statistic about the size of the HR workforce at OPM. 

And that was a troubling statistic, and clearly, there is an opportunity to provide resources and direction that be increased. 

It is clearly the case across government that you have seen a 

downsizing of that workforce at a time in which there are now increasing demands. And just like we are seeing at the Defense Department with a plus up of their acquisition workforce, I think we 

need to see a plus up of the HR workforce across government. That 

means more resources and more investment in people, and in the 

training of people. Because one of the things that I think is missing 

is not just the head count, but the investment in providing the 

skills training that the existing HR workforce needs and that the 

new folks are going to need to be able to keep up and to excel. 

So this is a problem again writ large. It is more pronounced in 

the HR workforce, but we need to see a heavier investment in 

training and development, particularly around the HR function. 

36 

Senator AKAKA. Ms. Rix, you testified that outsourcing HR functions can lead to a disconnect between HR contractors and hiring 

managers. I would like to hear more about how HR should interact 

with hiring managers and what value this adds to recruitment. 

Ms. RIX. One of the things that we have discovered over time, 

the HR workforce in the Federal Government sector has been effectively depleted. I believe there are fewer than 4 percent of the HR 

professionals that are under the age of 30, and the vast majority 

are retirement eligible. So backfilling and hiring, or even growing 

the size of that workforce to meet the impending retirement tsunami, as well as things like stimulus hiring and aggressive 

insourcing efforts, that workforce needs to grow and grow substantially. 

The method that agencies have used has been to contract out the 

work to private contractors, who are not knowledgeable about the 

Federal hiring system, do not have real expertise, and often end up 

displacing the Federal HR workforce by taking a seat with management instead of having the Federal Government employees at the 

table with management. The net effect of this is a cost of operation 

that is two and a half to five times greater than it would be if it 

were done by Federal employees. 

So when you look at this, that is one focus I would encourage you 

to look at. Insourcing Federal HR jobs is crucial. It is inherently 

governmental. It is working side by side with management to manage the workforce more effectively and to be able to promote the 

needs of management through the operations in HR that deal with 

recruitment, staffing, labor relations, employee relations, and all of 

those other activities. 

I would also say that one thing that I would encourage Mr. Berry 

to do is to look at that 70 percent that he discussed that was fee 

for service based. That 70 percent of funding is going through 

OPM, but it is going to contractors. It is not work that OPM employees are doing; it is work that contractors are doing by virtue 

of a contract vehicle through OPM. 

This worsens the case because now OPM is not necessarily inspired to build its own workforce up to be able to provide the guidance and the leadership and the proper standards and policies that 

Federal agencies need right now. So I encourage this Subcommittee 

to examine that particular issue and to know that it does have an 

extreme adverse impact on the agility of the government when we 

do need to act quickly, as in the case of the stimulus hiring. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, I must tell you, your responses have been 

good and very helpful. Let me ask the last question, and this opens 

it up. I have been specifically asking you about some things. I 

would now like to give you the opportunity to provide any additional thoughts, or recommendations you may have on the hearing 

today. 

As you know, the hearing is, as we had it announced, Uncle Sam 

Wants You!: Recruitment in the Federal Government. So my question is what are your additional thoughts or recommendations that 

you may have on this? 

Mr. Stier. 

Mr. STIER. Well, first of all, thank you very much, again, for listening and for soliciting the input, and for the great leadership 

37 

that you have exhibited in this arena because it is so important. 

You have heard an awful lot of stuff here, and there is more than 

could possibly be done given all the recommendations here. 

I would point out in listening to the first panel, that at least two 

of them for the agencies mentioned their rankings for the Best 

Places to Work. And, obviously, the Partnership Act does that. But 

what was instructive to me is that it helped generate a motivation 

on their part, that they were being ranked on the basis of what 

their people and their agency had to say about them. And I think, 

to me, that is a place where you can continue to push; that if you 

can actually provide more transparency and more information, that 

incentivizes the kind of behaviors that you want in these agencies. 

One very easy example of that is that at the present time, the 

basis of the Best Places to Work rankings is the Federal Human 

Capital Survey, which is conducted by OPM every other year. Well, 

it would be great if OPM actually did it every year because then 

you would have a more frequent basis of understanding where 

these agencies are from their employees’ perspective, and to help 

get that information out faster because right now the lag time is 

about 4 or 5 months. 

So, again, the broader concept is to do more to make these processes transparent by getting more information out. And, specifically, we would love to see the Federal Human Capital Survey done 

annually and the results put out very frequently, or rather in a 

more timely fashion. But, again, thank you for everything you have 

done, and we hope that we can be helpful in any way you can direct us. So thank you. 

Senator AKAKA. Ms. Rix, any additional thoughts? 

Ms. RIX. Just, really, one, which would be to try to encourage 

government agencies to capture the total workforce all inclusive. So 

we would look at capturing data on the civilian workforce, the military workforce, and the contractor workforce that is supporting 

those organizations. 

We believe right now—this is a very difficult estimate to get. You 

have to go to a lot of sources of data. But we believe there is a 

backlog between 200,000 and 380,000 funded vacant positions in 

the government today. A lot of that has been produced by the time 

lag in being able to fill positions, but must of it is produced by the 

fact that agencies often do not have good tracking systems to know 

that they have a funded vacancy. 

So when you are trying to manage the workforce, and do your 

workforce planning, and these other things, it is crucial to be able 

to know what is my vacancy rate and what should I be focusing 

on in terms of recruitment from a broader perspective. 

The second is, with only 1.8 or 1.9 million Federal employees and 

a contractor workforce of 10.5 million employees, you have a sizable 

management problem if you do not have visibility on the 10.5 million; plus, you are not sure exactly how to move quickly when you 

need to pull them back into the Federal workforce as opposed to 

releasing them out to contractors. 

So I would encourage this Subcommittee to take a look at a contractor inventory by every agency so we could see the actual size 

of government and be able to look at how interchangeable are those 

jobs, and whether or not we have things out that are critical to 

38 

managing the organization that ought to be brought back in to the 

government sector. 

I would echo Mr. Stier’s words. I really appreciate all the work 

that you do. I know that you have been working consistently and 

tirelessly with Senator Voinovich on a number of Federal workforce 

management issues. It is so important. I think your staffs are 

working tirelessly as well. And we really appreciate the opportunity to be here, to have you listen to us, and to know that there 

are sources of data and information that can provide you good visibility on things as simple as how frequently does category rating 

get used. So thank you so much. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, again, thank you very much for your responses. You have been very helpful to us. And, without question, 

together we can deal with the challenges that we have ahead of us; 

I look forward to that. Again, thank you for your input here and 

your recommendations, and wish you well in what you do. 

Mr. STIER. Thank you. 

Ms. RIX. Thank you. 

Senator AKAKA. This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:38 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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