1



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5



## Public Hearing on 6



## Proposed Petroleum Refineries 7



## Sector Risk & Technology Review and 8



## New Source Performance Standards 9

10

11

12



## 9:04 a.m. to 7:58 p.m. 13



## Tuesday, August 5, 2014 14

15



## Alvin D. Baggett Recreation Building 16



## 1302 Keene Street 17



## Galena Park, Texas 77547 18

19

20

21

222



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## EPA PANEL: 1



## FRED THOMPSON, Associate Division Director, 2



## Sector Policies and Programs Division 3



## Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards, 4



## EPA, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 5



## PENNY LASSITER, Group Leader, 6



## Refining and Chemicals Group, 7



## Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards, 8



## EPA, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 9



## RUBEN CASSO, EPA Region 6, Dallas, Texas 10



## BRENDA SHINE, Technical Lead, 11



## Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards, 12



## EPA, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

223



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S 1



## PAGE 2



## GENE GREEN, 3



## Member of U.S. Congress representing 4



## 29th Congressional District of Texas 16 5



## DAVID FRIEDMAN. 6



## Vice President of Regulatory Affairs, 7



## American Fuel and Petrochemical 8



## Manufacturers 21 9



## MATTHEW TODD, Senior Policy Advisor, 10



## American Petroleum Institute 26 11



## ALEX CUCLIS, Houston Advance Research Center 33 12



## LUKE METZGER, Director, Environment Texas 39 13



## BRANDT MANNCHEN, 14



## Concerned Citizen from Houston, Texas 44 15



## JOHN SULLIVAN, 16



## Concerned Citizen from Houston, Texas 48 17



## JIM LEFTON, 18



## United Steelworkers International Union 54 19



## ADRIAN SHELLEY, Executive Director, 20



## Air Alliance Houston 61 21

224



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## THERESA LANDRUM, 3



## Concerned Citizen from Detroit, Michigan 66 4



## SCOTT ELDER, 5



## Concerned Citizen from Houston, Texas 71 6



## JAMES QUE, Louisiana Democracy Project 73 7



## JUAN PARRAS, Executive Director, 8



## Texas Environmental Justice 9



## Advocacy Services 79 10



## ILAN LEVIN, Associate Director, 11



## Environmental Integrity Project 85 12



## YUDITH NIETO, 13



## Concerned Citizen from Texas 93 14



## MONIQUE HARDEN, Co-Director and Attorney, 15



## Advocates for Environmental Human Rights 97 16



## LYRIC TURNER, Youth Director, 17



## Zion Travelers Cooperative Center 104 18



## DOROTHY FELIX, President, 19



## Mossville Environmental Action Now 108 20



## MARGIE E. RICHARD, Truth Community Outreach 111 21

225



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## STEPHANIE ANTHONY, Founding Director, 3



## Louisiana Democracy Project 117 4



## KELLY HARAGAN, Director, Environmental Clinic, 5



## University of Texas Law School 123 6



## PATTY WHITNEY, Community Advocate, 7



## Bayou Interfaith Shared Community 8



## Organizing 131 9



## PETE OLSON, Member in U.S. Congress 10



## representing 22nd District of Texas 137 11



## DARRYL MALEK-WILEY, 12



## Senior Organizing Representative 13



## Environmental Justice and Community 14



## Partnership, New Orleans 141 15



## MARY WILLIAMS, Assistant Director, 16



## Community Relations, Deep South Center for 17



## Environmental Justice, New Orleans 146 18



## DR. ROBERT BULLARD, Dean of the 19



## Barbara Jordan-Mickey Leland School of 20



## Public Affairs, Texas Southern University 148 21

226



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## ERICUA THOMAS, Louisiana Democracy Project and 3



## Pray for Our Air 153 4



## WILLIAM A. FONTENOT, Conservation Chair, 5



## Sierra Club Delta Chapter 155 6



## LESLIE WILLIAMS, Director, Environmental 7



## Justice and Community Partnerships Program, 8



## Sierra Club, Washington, D.C. 161 9



## RYAN KNAPICK, Staff Attorney, 10



## Clean Air Council 168 11



## STEPHEN PAVEL, 12



## Concerned Citizen from Kingwood, Texas 174 13



## SALEEM CHAPMAN, Director, 14



## Environmental Justice for Clean Air Council 180 15



## CEIL PRICE, Senior Assistant City Attorney, 16



## City of Houston 185 17



## PAUL SARAHAN, Texas Oil and Gas Association 190 18



## JESSE MARQUEZ, 19



## Concerned Citizen from California 195 20



## BILLY PLACKER, Concerned Citizen from 21



## Corpus Christi, Texas 199 227



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## DR. BRETT PERKISON, Assistant Professor, 3



## Family Community Medicine, 4



## Baylor College of Medicine 209 5



## DR. REBECCA BRUHL, Associate Director, 6



## Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine; and 7



## Associate Director of Baylor's 8



## Environmental Health Service 211 9



## ANDY ZELLINGER, Monitor and Coordinator, 10



## Louisiana Bucket Brigade 216 11



## DR. BEVERLY WRIGHT, Director, 12



## Dillard University Detox Center for 13



## Environmental Justice 223 14



## KATIE MOORE, Louisiana Bucket Brigade 228 15



## CRAIG BESKID, Executive Director, 16



## East Harris County Manufacturers 17



## Association 233 18



## MARCELO NORSWORTHY, Research Analyst, 19



## Environmental Defense Fund 239 20



## MAKELA ELVY, Intern, Air Alliance Houston 243 21



## ERIC MOLL, Journalist 247 228



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## CINDY SPOON, Concerned Citizen 252 3



## ARTURO BLANCO, 4



## National Association of Clean Air Agencies 256 5



## HILLARY CORGEY, Researcher, Public Citizen 262 6



## NEIL CARMAN, Clean Air Program Director, 7



## Lone Star Chapter of the Sierra Club 268 8



## YING T. GAO, Science Director, Camsco; and 9



## Concerned Citizen from Houston, Texas 274 10



## SPARSH KHANDESHI, 11



## Environmental Integrity Project 277 12



## RON SEIFERT, Tar Sands Blockade 283 13



## KATY ROWE, Texas Campaign for the Environment 286 14



## CHRIS GOETZMAN, Concerned Citizen 287 15



## HILTON KELLEY, Concerned Citizen from Texas 291 16



## BRIAN BUTLER, Air Alliance Houston and 17



## Healthy Port Communities Coalition 300 18



## PAIGE POWELL, Administrative Assistant, 19



## Air Alliance Houston 304 20



## SARA ZARATE, Concerned Citizen from Texas 308 21

229



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## FRANK BORREGO, 3



## Concerned Citizen from Texas 315 4



## JANETTE SEXTON, 5



## Concerned Citizen from Texas 324 6



## MARIA ROSARIO MARTINEZ [via interpreter] 7



## Texas Organizing Project 330 8



## STEVEN HALVORSON, Board Member, 9



## Texas Organizing Project 332 10



## PATRICIA GONZALEZ, Board Member, 11



## Texas Organizing Project; and President of 12



## Pasadena Texas Organizing Project 340 13



## TIFFANY HOGUE, 14



## Statewide Healthcare Campaign Coordinator, 15



## Texas Organizing Project 351 16



## JUANITA TORRES, Concerned Citizen of Texas 357 17



## DAUGHTER OF MANUELA GARCIA, 18



## Concerned Citizen from Texas 361 19



## CLARA VELASCO, 20



## Concerned Citizen from Galena Park, Texas 362 21

2210



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## CYNTHIA VELASCO, 3



## Concerned Citizen from Texas 363 4



## MARIA ROSARIO MARTINEZ [via interpreter] 5



## Texas Organizing Project 368 6



## JUAN VELASCO, Concerned Citizen from Texas 374 7



## BANNER ROYAL STANLEY [ph], 8



## Concerned Citizen from Texas 381 9



## JEFF STEAR, 10



## Concerned Citizen from Houston, Texas 390 11



## LISA GOSSETT, 12



## Concerned Citizen from Texas 396 13



## MARGARITA ARANTES LIGRAN [ph] 14



## Concerned Citizen 400 15

16

17

18

19

20

21

2211



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## P R O C E E D I N G S 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, let me start by just 2



## saying good morning to everyone, and thank you 3



## for attending this public hearing. 4



## My name is Fred Thompson, and I am the 5



## Associate Division Director of the Sector 6



## Policies and Programs Division in EPA's Office of 7



## Air Quality Planning and Standards, and I will be 8



## chairing today's hearing. 9



## Joining me on the panel to my left are 10



## Penny Lassiter and Brenda Shine, and to my right, 11



## Ruben Casso from EPA's Region 6 office. 12



## We are here today to listen to your 13



## comments on EPA's Proposed Petroleum Refinery 14



## Sector Risk and Technology Review and New Source 15



## Performance Standards. EPA published the 16



## proposed standards in the Federal Register on 17



## June 30th, 2014. 18



## This proposed rule is based on the risk 19



## and technology review of two emission standards 20



## already in place at refineries. The National 21



## Emission Standard for Hazardous Air Pollutants 2212



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## from Petroleum Refineries, also referred to as 1



## Refinery MACT 1, and the National Emission 2



## Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants for 3



## Petroleum Refineries that covers catalytic 4



## cracking units, catalytic reforming units, and 5



## sulfur reforming units, also referred to as 6



## Refinery MACT 2. 7



## The EPA is proposing additional emission 8



## control requirements for storage tanks, flares, 9



## and coking units at petroleum refineries. The 10



## EPA is also proposing to require monitoring of 11



## air concentrations at the fence line of refinery 12



## facilities to ensure proposed standards are being 13



## met and that neighboring communities are not 14



## being exposed to unintended emissions. 15



## When fully implemented, the provisions in 16



## the rule will result in a reduction of 5,600 tons 17



## per year of toxic air pollutants and 52,000 tons 18



## per year of volatile organic compounds, or VOCs. 19



## Today, we will be accepting oral comments 20



## on all aspects of our proposal, and we will 21



## prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 2213



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## transcript will be available as part of the 1



## official record for the rule and will be placed 2



## in the regulatory docket. 3



## We are also accepting written comments on 4



## the proposed rule until August 29th, 2014, and I 5



## would like to repeat that. We are also accepting 6



## written comments on the proposed rule until 7



## August the 29th, 2014. 8



## At the registration area, which is 9



## located in the lobby, there are handouts with 10



## details information outlining how to submit 11



## written comments by mail, facts, or 12



## electronically. EPA will consider your comments 13



## as we move forward to complete a final rule. 14



## Written statements and supporting information 15



## submitted during the comment period will be 16



## considered with the same weight as any oral 17



## comments and supporting information presented at 18



## today's hearing. 19



## Now let me describe the logistics for 20



## today's hearing. I will call the scheduled 21



## speakers to the table in pairs. When it is your 2214



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## turn to speak, please state your name and your 1



## affiliation before you begin your testimony. It 2



## would help our court reporter if you also spell 3



## out your name. 4



## In order to be fair to everyone, we will 5



## limit your testimony to 5 minutes each and ask 6



## that you remain at the table until both speakers 7



## have completed his or her testimony. After you 8



## finish your testimony, members of the panel may 9



## ask clarifying questions. 10



## If you would like to provide us with a 11



## written copy of your testimony, please give that 12



## to the staff at the registration desk in the 13



## lobby before you leave today. 14



## We have a timekeeping system that is 15



## located here on the table consisting of green, 16



## yellow, and red lights to help you keep track of 17



## your 5 minutes to speak. When you begin 18



## speaking, the green light will come on. The 19



## yellow light will signal that you have 1 minute 20



## left to speak. When the red light comes on, 5 21



## minutes has passed, and I will ask you to please 2215



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## complete your testimony. 1



## Today's hearing is scheduled from 9 a.m. 2



## and will continue until 8 p.m. or later, if 3



## necessary, depending on the number of speakers. 4



## The hearing will go on recess during the 5



## scheduled lunch break from 12 p.m. until 1 p.m. 6



## and a dinner break from 5 p.m. until 6 p.m. We 7



## will reconvene promptly at 1 p.m. and 6 p.m., 8



## respectively. If you would like to testify but 9



## have not yet registered to do so, please sign up 10



## at the registration table in the lobby. 11



## For those who have already registered to 12



## speak, we have tried to accommodate your request 13



## for specific time slots. We ask for your 14



## patience as we proceed through the list of 15



## speakers, as we may need to make some adjustments 16



## as the day progresses. 17



## If any questions arise throughout the 18



## day, please see a staff member at the 19



## registration table for assistance. 20



## Thank you all again for participating 21



## today, and with that, let's get started. At this 2216



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## time, I would like to invite Congressman Gene 1



## Green and David Friedman to the podium for 2



## testimony. 3



## [Pause.] 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 5



## We would like to begin with Congressman 6



## Green. 7



## REP. GREEN: Good morning. 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 9



## REP. GREEN: First of all, thank you for 10



## having a hearing in Galena Park. I have been a 11



## Member of Congress for a number of years and 12



## before that a State Senator, and I've represented 13



## the community of Galena Park since 1985. 14



## I would like to start today by expressing 15



## my disappointment. I have represented the area, 16



## like I said, since 1985 and proudly in the United 17



## States Congress. Now, I am concerned because the 18



## Environmental Protection Agency set this hearing, 19



## but I only received notice of it last Thursday, 20



## and I apologize for not staying longer today. 21



## I am on the Energy and Commerce 2217



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Committee, on the Energy and Power Subcommittee, 1



## and work with EPA literally on a daily basis, and 2



## I would hope that this is just an oversight. I 3



## know another Member of Congress, Congressman 4



## Olson, will be here this afternoon. But 5



## typically, when you have hearings in 6



## congressional districts, you make sure that the 7



## Members who represent that area have adequate 8



## notice. Obviously, I know this hearing was not 9



## set last Thursday. 10



## The Risk and Technology Review of the 11



## Refineries Sector and the New Source Performance 12



## Standards have significant impacts on my 13



## constituents. The industries that I represent, I 14



## represent typically half of the Port of Houston, 15



## and our constituents who live and work in these 16



## plants may be adversely impacted by the proposed 17



## rule. This is my job to be their voice and make 18



## sure it is heard. 19



## Rather than you contacting our offices 20



## ensuring we were provided ample notice, EPA 21



## prepared this hearing with an Environmental 2218



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Justice Training Workshop and failed to provide 1



## adequate notification. 2



## The proposed rule would significantly 3



## change the current requirements for refinery 4



## emissions rules by further lowering limits, 5



## including ending startup, shutdown, and 6



## malfunction exemptions, and for the first time 7



## introduce fence-line monitoring. Many of our 8



## refineries in our chemical plants already have -- 9



## currently internally monitor their fence lines. 10



## The industries in our districts have 11



## invested millions of dollars to meet the 12



## requirements set forth in Refinery MACT 1 and 13



## MACT 2. For almost a decade, the refinery 14



## industry has worked to lower emissions and with 15



## tangible results. 16



## Both the Bush and Obama administrations 17



## recognized that the public is adequately 18



## protected under the previous rules. The EPA has 19



## openly acknowledged that stricter requirements 20



## are not necessary; however, due to recent consent 21



## decrees, the EPA is being forced to act where 2219



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## little or no action is needed. 1



## The fence-line communities, refineries, 2



## the other key stakeholders are all in regular 3



## communications to discuss environmental impacts 4



## associated with operation of these facilities. 5



## The EPA asserts that monitoring won't reach 6



## levels that will necessitate corrective action. 7



## So why is the agency spending tax dollars to 8



## engage in another rulemaking with little or 9



## justifiable results? 10



## This actually seems duplicative. The 11



## agency recognizes new rules and proposed 12



## regulations that already exist under previous 13



## initiatives. Unfortunately, it would seem that 14



## all this rule does is limit the operational 15



## flexibility that these refiners possess and 16



## duplicate the amount of reporting requirements. 17



## I would request EPA to reconsider the 18



## imposition of this package and refocus their 19



## efforts on more effective environmental rules, 20



## and that's my prepared statement. 21



## But like I said, our office works every 2220



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## day with EPA. I represent the industrial side of 1



## Houston, and our concern is the environment. We 2



## want that products being produced as safely and 3



## as clean as we can, but we also know those 4



## refineries don't make products that somebody 5



## doesn't need, because we have to buy them. And 6



## if we don't make them in our community clean, 7



## then someone else will make them and maybe in 8



## countries that are not as environmentally 9



## sensitive as we are. 10



## So, with that, I appreciate the 11



## opportunity to be here, and hopefully, when EPA 12



## comes to our district again, we will know a 13



## little bit more at an earlier time. 14



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Congressman. 15



## REP. GREEN: Thank you. 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much for 17



## testifying. 18



## MR. FRIEDMAN: Good morning. My name is 19



## David Friedman. I am Vice President of 20



## Regulatory Affairs for the American Fuel and 21



## Petrochemical Manufacturers. We appreciate the 2221



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## opportunity today to discuss our views on EPA's 1



## proposed refinery, risk, and technology review 2



## rule. 3



## AFPM is a national trade association of 4



## more than 400 companies, including virtually all 5



## U.S. refineries and petrochemical manufacturers. 6



## Our members operate 122 U.S. refineries, 7



## comprising approximately 98 percent of U.S. 8



## refining capacity. 9



## Air quality has improved significantly in 10



## the U.S. over the past three decades, and the 11



## industry has been a significant contributor to 12



## this improvement. Since 1990, our industry has 13



## invested $137 billion to reduce emissions from 14



## our plants and make cleaner fuels. 15



## On the air toxics side, we have also made 16



## great strides in reducing emissions. Total HAPs, 17



## hazardous air pollutants, from the refining 18



## sector have been reduced by nearly two-thirds 19



## since 1990, while fugitive HAPs have been reduced 20



## by 79 percent and point-source HAP emissions have 21



## been reduced by nearly 40 percent. 2222



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The results in Texas as just as 1



## encouraging. According to TCEQ, nitrogen oxide 2



## levels have been reduced by 63 percent and sulfur 3



## dioxide levels have been reduced by 50 percent 4



## from stationary sources from 2000 to 2012. 5



## Furthermore, 91 percent of benzene ambient 6



## monitors that were in operation from 2000 through 7



## 2012 have shown decreases overall. 8



## We are faced with a rule with significant 9



## costs but with little or no health or 10



## environmental benefits. EPA estimates that this 11



## rule will cost $240 million, but our members 12



## estimate that it will cost well in excess of a 13



## billion dollars. Of even greater concern is that 14



## the health benefit gains are insignificant by any 15



## measure, meaning this rule will have financial 16



## impacts to the economy with essentially no 17



## measureable benefits. 18



## Every refinery will be required to 19



## install fence-line monitors at significant 20



## ongoing cost, yet many of these refineries have 21



## very low or almost no levels of risk. We don't 2223



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## understand how imposing this one-size-fits-all 1



## approach to every refinery will improve public 2



## health, particularly when according to EPA 3



## analysis, a number of these refineries pose no 4



## health risk to the surrounding communities. 5



## The EPA rule imposes a rolling average 6



## benzene concentration action level of 2.8 parts 7



## per billion at the refinery fence line, measured 8



## every 2 weeks from 20 to 30 samples collected 9



## around the refinery fence-line perimeter. 10



## Exceeding this "threshold" would trigger a 11



## root-cause analysis and corrective action and 12



## could be deemed a violation by EPA. 13



## However, the threshold value is not an 14



## indicator of risk. The stated purpose of this 15



## monitoring is to check EPA's modeling of fugitive 16



## emissions. We fail to see how it can achieve 17



## this goal. 18



## We have concerns with the flaring 19



## provisions in this rule. Any proposed flare 20



## combustion efficiency standard should (1) only 21



## address steam-assisted flares, (2) focus on 2224



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## oversteaming, and (3) limit the need for the 1



## wasteful addition of natural gas to the flares. 2



## Pressure relief valves are designed to 3



## protect plant personnel, the public equipment, 4



## and EPA should not change the MACT floor practice 5



## for PRVs. PRVs relieve very infrequently and for 6



## short periods of time, with very little total HAP 7



## emissions. While monitoring such releases to 8



## ensure that PRVs have properly closed makes sense 9



## and most companies already do so, prohibiting 10



## atmospheric releases will require routing PRVs to 11



## additional new flares. This will require massive 12



## investments, both for these new flares and for 13



## flare headers to control releases of rare 14



## events. 15



## EPA has greatly overstated the risks that 16



## coking units pose, and the proposed 17



## depressurization requirements go well beyond the 18



## new requirements set by the recently promulgated 19



## refinery NSPS rule. EPA has greatly 20



## underestimated the cost of controlling these 21



## emissions, controls that result in virtually no 2225



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## benefit. 1



## As part of this suite of proposed rules, 2



## EPA has attempted to implement the 2008 U.S. 3



## Court of Appeals ruling of the startup, shutdown, 4



## and malfunction, or SSM provisions, found in the 5



## MACT regulations. Unfortunately, EPA has 6



## interpreted the court ruling to mean that all 7



## instances of SSM must adhere to the same emission 8



## standards established for normal operations. 9



## Particularly in the case of malfunctions, this is 10



## a physical impossibility, and the enforcement 11



## that would result from this approach is the 12



## equivalent of having a police waiting for people 13



## at the auto repair shop every time something goes 14



## wrong with their car. 15



## We strongly urge the Agency to reassess 16



## their obligation to address SSM emissions by 17



## either revising the existing standards, which are 18



## not currently based on SSM events, or to craft 19



## separate standards to address those circumstances 20



## outside of normal operations. 21



## Thank you again for this opportunity to 2226



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## speak, and I am happy to answer any questions. 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Friedman. 2



## Are there any questions for either 3



## Congressman Green or Mr. Friedman? 4



## [No audible response.] 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, gentlemen, thank you 6



## again for adjusting your schedules to be here 7



## today and for your testimony. 8



## Folks, before I invite the next speakers 9



## up, I would like to just remind you that if you 10



## have preregistered to speak, please be sure you 11



## have checked in at the front desk. So if you 12



## have preregistered, please be sure to check in at 13



## the front desk. Thanks. 14



## Our next speakers are Matt Todd and Alex 15



## Cuclis. 16



## [Pause.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 18



## MR. TODD: Good morning. 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Beginning with you, Mr. 20



## Todd, if you will just state and spell your name 21



## for the court reporter, and then begin your 2227



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## testimony. 1



## MR. TODD: Good morning. It's Matthew 2



## Todd, M-a-t-t-h-e-w, T-o-d-d. I am with the 3



## American Petroleum Institute. I’m speaking today 4



## on behalf of the American Petroleum Institute. 5



## As I said, API represents over 600 oil and 6



## natural gas companies, leaders of a 7



## technology-driven industry that supplies most of 8



## America’s energy, supports more than 9.8 million 9



## jobs and 8 percent of the U.S. economy, since 10



## 2000 has invested nearly $2 trillion in U.S. 11



## capital projects to advance all forms of energy, 12



## including alternatives. 13



## Our members are dedicated to continuous 14



## efforts to improve the compatibility of our 15



## operations with the environment and our 16



## communities while economically developing energy 17



## resources and supplying high-quality products 18



## and services to consumers. We recognize our 19



## responsibility to work with the public, the 20



## government, and others to develop and to use 21



## natural resources in an environmentally sound 2228



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## manner while protecting the health and safety of 1



## our employees and the public. Many of our 2



## members will be directly impacted by the proposed 3



## refinery sector rule which is the focus, 4



## obviously, of today’s public hearing. 5



## I have three key points that I would like 6



## to make today. First, air quality in the United 7



## States has improved significantly, continues to 8



## improve, and our industry is doing its part to 9



## contribute to this success. Second, after 10



## significant effort, the U.S. EPA has concluded in 11



## this rulemaking that the public is protected with 12



## an ample margin of safety. Finally, the safe 13



## operation of our refineries to protect our 14



## workers and the community is our number-one 15



## priority. 16



## My first point is that air quality has 17



## improved significantly and continues to improve, 18



## and our industry is contributing to these 19



## improvements. According to the EPA Report on the 20



## Environment, mean benzene concentrations have 21



## dropped by 66 percent from 1994 to 2009 2229



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## nationwide. 1



## Locally, the improvements to air quality 2



## have been even more dramatic. The Houston 3



## Regional Monitoring Network, an extensive 4



## collection of ambient air monitoring stations 5



## across the Houston area, shows an 85 percent 6



## reduction of BTEX, a mixture of key pollutants. 7



## In fact, since 2006, all of their monitors have 8



## been well below the TCEQ’s Air Monitoring 9



## Comparison Values for benzene. This term is used 10



## by TCEQ to collectively describe the safe 11



## concentrations of a particular chemical in the 12



## air used to evaluate ambient air monitoring data. 13



## The U.S. oil and natural gas industry has 14



## been a key part of these improvements, investing 15



## over $268 billion since 1990 toward improving the 16



## environmental performance of its products, 17



## facilities and operations. In the year 2012 18



## alone, approximately $14.9 billion was expended 19



## on environmental protection. 20



## My second point today is that the EPA has 21



## concluded in this rulemaking that the public is 2230



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## protected with an ample margin of safety from 1



## refinery emissions. Once again, EPA has reached 2



## this conclusion, this time after developing an 3



## entirely new protocol for refineries to report 4



## their emissions and a multi-million-dollar -- 5



## tens of millions of dollars -- information 6



## collection request, including data collection 7



## from every refinery for all the emission sources 8



## and direct emission testing for a number of 9



## emission sources. 10



## All of this information was then 11



## processed through conservative risk modeling 12



## which determined that communities around 13



## refineries are protected with an ample margin of 14



## safety from these emissions. 15



## While this is my final point today, it 16



## goes without saying that the safe operation of 17



## our refineries to protect our workers and the 18



## community is our number-one priority. As such, 19



## API will be taking a close look to ensure these 20



## proposed regulations don’t compromise the safety 21



## of our workers and the community. 2231



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## For example, in this rule, EPA has 1



## proposed requirements prohibiting the use of 2



## equipment whose sole purpose is to prevent 3



## over-pressuring of equipment and avoid 4



## potentially catastrophic damage. This 5



## prohibition will not only increase safety risk 6



## but will require many additional flares. 7



## Obviously, this part of the proposal needs to be 8



## revised from a safety perspective. Our written 9



## comments will address this provision in greater 10



## detail, as well as other parts of the proposal. 11



## In closing, I appreciate the opportunity 12



## to provide the testimony on this important 13



## rulemaking for our industry. I would like to 14



## reiterate again air quality has improved 15



## significantly, and our industry is doing its part 16



## to contribute to this success. After significant 17



## effort, the Agency has concluded that the public 18



## is protected with an ample margin of safety, and 19



## the safe operation of our refineries to protect 20



## our workers and the community is our number-one 21



## priority. 2232



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## We will be submitting detailed comments 1



## to the docket to ensure that the final regulation 2



## doesn’t inhibit the safe operation of our 3



## refineries, doesn’t increase emissions from any 4



## sources, and is cost effective. 5



## Thank you. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Todd. 7



## Before you start, Mr. Cuclis, I am going 8



## to do a sound check here. Can the folks in the 9



## back in the room just put your hand up? Can you 10



## hear the testimony, and can you hear us? 11



## ATTENDEES: No. 12



## MR. THOMPSON: You cannot? Okay, thanks. 13



## ATTENDEE: So they don't have to start 14



## all over again. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: No. 16



## [Laughter.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: So, guys, can you turn the 18



## volume up just a little? Who controls that? 19



## Okay. 20



## MR. CUCLIS: Are we good? 21



## MR. THOMPSON: Yeah. Just pull it a 2233



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## little closer to you. 1



## MR. CUCLIS: All right. 2



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. Thank you 3



## for your patience. 4



## MR. CUCLIS: Good morning. My name is 5



## Alex Cuclis. That's C-u-c-l-i-s. I work with 6



## the Houston Advance Research Center. 7



## I have worked on air quality projects at 8



## -- 9



## ATTENDEE: We can't hear you. 10



## ATTENDEE: We can't hear back here. 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. You can start your 12



## testimony. Just sit tight for a moment. 13



## Restart. Just hold on. 14



## MR. CUCLIS: Okay. 15



## [Pause.] 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Test it, please. 17



## MR. CUCLIS: Test. Is it working? 18



## ATTENDEES: Yes. 19



## [Applause.] 20



## MR. CUCLIS: Great, great. 21



## MR. THOMPSON: Please. 2234



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. CUCLIS: As I said, my name is Alex 1



## Cuclis. I have worked on air quality projects 2



## for the Houston Advance Research Center and the 3



## University of Houston for 12 years. Before that, 4



## I worked for 15 years as a refinery engineer at 5



## Shell Deer Park, which is just a few miles away. 6



## The results from TexAQS 2000 Large Air 7



## Quality Campaign showed that Houston Area 8



## Refineries emitted VOCs at least 10 times higher 9



## than reported. A follow-up study in 2006 found 10



## that some of the emissions, VOC emissions, fell 11



## by 40 percent, but different measuring methods 12



## found emissions were still 10 times higher than 13



## reported. 14



## In the 1980s and '90s, BP in Europe 15



## measured refinery emissions that were 5 to 20 16



## times higher in estimates using differential 17



## absorption lidar, or DIAL. BP, and later Shell, 18



## built DIAL systems to locate and quantify VOC 19



## emissions and to prioritize and reduce leaks. 20



## In 1988, a DIAL study in Sweden showed 21



## refinery emissions were 20 times higher than 2235



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## reported. DIAL found a large leak that operators 1



## did not know about. The leak was fixed, and a 2



## DIAL study was repeated, but emissions were still 3



## 15 times higher than estimates. Since that time, 4



## regulators in Sweden told refiners to measure 5



## emissions and to stop reporting based on EPA 6



## emission estimate methods. 7



## In 1992, Sweden's refiners did measure 8



## emissions using different techniques, including 9



## fence-line monitors; however, leak rates could 10



## not be calculated from the fence-line 11



## concentrations. So, in '95, the Swedes required 12



## DIAL at all refineries to be repeated every 3 13



## years. 14



## Solar occultation flux, or SOF, provided 15



## measurements similar to DIAL in the early 2000s. 16



## So now the Swedes require either a SOF or DIAL 17



## test each year. All measurements are made inside 18



## the refineries, not at the fence line, to find 19



## specific sources of emissions. DIAL and SOF are 20



## both two to three orders of magnitude more 21



## sensitive than the IR camera. 2236



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## SOF is reasonably cheap. DIAL is pricy, 1



## but so are regulations based on inventories that 2



## are off by an order of magnitude. EPA used DIAL 3



## at a coke facility in New York and proved that 4



## benzene emissions were 30 times higher than 5



## reported. This led to significant changes at 6



## that facility that protected the community. 7



## Last year, the first SOF studies at 8



## refineries were done in California and found that 9



## emissions there were 3 to 10 times higher than 10



## estimates. They are in the process of bringing 11



## SOF back this year. 12



## Sinopec, who runs the largest refinery 13



## system in China, just purchased the first 14



## commercial version of SOF. They intend to use 15



## SOF to assess leak detection and repair programs 16



## and reduce emissions at all of their refineries. 17



## Without measurements that locate and quantify 18



## leaks, industry has and will emit pollutants they 19



## either do not know about or have ignored, and 20



## regulators will develop controls for others, like 21



## banning lawn mowing before noon or making 2237



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## everybody buy an electric lawn mower, which has 1



## had relatively little impact. 2



## Emissions have reduced substantially from 3



## refineries in the past decade, and I don't want 4



## to at all discount that, but the results continue 5



## to be the same. In Texas, California, and Europe, 6



## measurements are consistently 3 to 15 times 7



## higher than the VOC estimates that are based on 8



## EPA estimating techniques. These are not just 9



## temporary upsets. They are continuous emissions 10



## that are found every time downwind measurements 11



## are taken, and they are essentially unseen by 12



## ground-level monitors. 13



## The technical staff who built emissions 14



## inventories and rely on EPA and those who use the 15



## inventories to build complex air quality models 16



## and others who use the models hoping to bring the 17



## best control strategies to reduce pollution and 18



## most of all people who live in places like Galena 19



## Park all need technologies that actually locate 20



## and measure leaks. 21



## The great advantage of SOF and DIAL is 2238



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that they measure concentrations from the ground 1



## to the sky and use wind speeds to quantify their 2



## pollutant leak rates. 3



## The things I have described here today, 4



## locating and measuring leaks, protecting the 5



## community, and even doing that at a low cost can 6



## all be done with these techniques, and in fact, 7



## it is not only possible, but it is being done by 8



## agencies across the world. 9



## I am happy to answer any questions 10



## anybody has on that. Thank you very much for the 11



## time. 12



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 13



## testimony. 14



## Are there any questions from the panel 15



## for Mr. Todd or Mr. Cuclis? 16



## [No audible response.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Gentlemen, thank you 18



## again. Thank you for your testimony and your 19



## patience. Thanks. 20



## Our next speakers are Luke Metzger and 21



## Brandt Mannchen. 2239



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## [Pause.] 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 2



## MR. METZGER: Good morning. 3



## MR. MANNCHEN: Good morning. 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for coming. 5



## Mr. Metzger, we would like to start with 6



## you. Please state and spell your name for the 7



## court reporter, and then start your testimony. 8



## MR. METZGER: Great. My name is Luke 9



## Metzger. That is L-u-k-e, M-e-t-z-g-e-r. I am 10



## the Director of Environment Texas, which is a 11



## statewide citizen-funded advocate for clean air, 12



## clean water, and open spaces. 13



## Pollution from oil refineries poses 14



## serious risks to the health of people living 15



## nearby, especially children. There are here in 16



## Texas about 597,000 people with asthma, including 17



## 178,000 children, who live in counties with at 18



## least one oil refinery. 19



## According to a 2006 study by the 20



## University of Texas School of Public Health, 21



## children living within 2 miles of the Houston 2240



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Ship Channel, which is home to five oil 1



## refineries, have a 56 percent greater risk of 2



## leukemia than children living 10 miles away. And 3



## a 2008 study published in the journal 4



## Environmental Science and Technology found that 5



## for residents of the eastern portion of the 6



## Houston Ship Channel, the greatest contributor to 7



## an increased risk of cancer is point-source 8



## emissions from petrochemical refineries. 9



## My organization, Environment Texas, 10



## together with the Sierra Club, have been involved 11



## with three lawsuits involving refineries and 12



## chemical plants here in the Houston area. We 13



## have settled suits against Shell Oil's Deer Park 14



## refinery and Chevron Phillips'chemical plant in 15



## Baytown, and I have copies of those settlements 16



## here I will enter into the record. And we are 17



## currently also in the middle of a lawsuit against 18



## ExxonMobil for violations of the Clean Air Act at 19



## its refinery and chemical plants in Baytown. In 20



## each of these cases, we found several things to 21



## be common. 2241



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## First, refinery emissions are far higher 1



## than what is reported, and that is due to (1) the 2



## use of unrealistically high flare combustion 3



## efficiency rates, and (2) the fact that companies 4



## generally will report emissions from leaks and 5



## other upset conditions when they are discovered, 6



## which can often long after the emissions began. 7



## In the trial in our lawsuit against Exxon 8



## in February, we submitted unrebutted expert 9



## testimony showing that Exxon’s flare emissions 10



## are many times larger than what they report. 11



## Exxon had years of prep for trial, 3 weeks of 12



## testimony, in order to contest that and to show 13



## evidence to the contrary, and they couldn’t. The 14



## only response was, "We follow the regulations on 15



## how to report, and they allow us to assume a 98 16



## or 99 percent combustion efficiency rate." 17



## So federal regulations need to be updated 18



## to take into account the current state of 19



## knowledge of how industrial flares work in 20



## practice and how they can be far more efficiently 21



## used. You also need to set a hard cap on flaring 2242



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## to ban routine emissions. 1



## Second, the evidence in the Exxon trial 2



## and the results of our past litigation against 3



## Shell and Chevron Phillips prove that refinery 4



## emissions can be reduced dramatically, but this 5



## only happens when companies are forced to do so. 6



## Shell and Chevron Phillips reduced annual upset 7



## emissions by 95 percent from pre-lawsuit levels. 8



## Exxon also finally began trying to reduce their 9



## upset emissions, but that only started after we 10



## started filing these lawsuits. We can’t sue 11



## everybody, so it is critical that federal 12



## regulations be far stricter across the board. 13



## Third, Exxon personnel and experts 14



## testified that Exxon does not believe it is 15



## economically reasonable for the company to spend 16



## money on capital improvements, like additional 17



## sulfur recovery units, additional flare 18



## compressors, and flare gas recovery systems that 19



## would cut emissions by many tons per year. Only 20



## stricter federal requirements will force 21



## companies like Exxon to prioritize pollution 2243



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## reduction over profits. 1



## Finally, the lack of fence-line 2



## monitoring systems is a huge problem. Stationary 3



## monitors are few and far between, and they are 4



## simply not capable of reliably detecting plumes 5



## of pollution from relatively short-lived upset 6



## events or from specific point sources of 7



## emissions. Only fence-line monitors can reliably 8



## do that. 9



## Companies, like Exxon did at our trial, 10



## often use inadequate data from the few stationary 11



## monitors to argue that their emissions are not 12



## creating any risk for the public. 13



## Thank you for including, for the first 14



## time ever, mandatory fence-line monitoring in a 15



## national rule. However, in order for that rule 16



## and the monitor to be meaningful, you need to 17



## require the best available monitoring techniques, 18



## monitoring for more pollutants in real time, and 19



## better monitoring for leaks. 20



## Oil refineries, especially in Texas, have 21



## gotten away with fouling air for too long. It is 2244



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## critical that you adopt a strong rule that really 1



## protects our communities and especially our 2



## children. 3



## Thank you. 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Metzger. 5



## Would you please state and spell your 6



## name for the court reporter and give your 7



## testimony, sir. 8



## MR. MANNCHEN: Sure. My name is Brandt 9



## Mannchen, B-r-a-n-d-t, M-a-n-n-c-h-e-n. And I am 10



## a citizen of the City of Houston. I am 11



## representing myself today. 12



## Concerning the requirement for visible 13



## emissions from players, unless there is an actual 14



## emergency that could result in extreme plant 15



## damage or imminent threat to people who live or 16



## work nearby, no visible emissions from flares 17



## should be allowed. If flares are so efficient as 18



## is stated, 98 percent, then visible emissions 19



## should not occur. 20



## Concerning flares and online gas 21



## chromatographs, I support that. We need to bring 2245



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## flares from the stone age and require monitoring 1



## commensurate with the massive amounts of air 2



## pollutants, hazardous or otherwise, that are 3



## burned or emitted from flares. 4



## I do not support the use of grab samples, 5



## since a continuous method to determine whether 6



## flares actually destroy air pollutants and 7



## measurement of air pollutants that flares do emit 8



## is needed. 9



## I do not agree with EPA that wind does 10



## not affect flare performance. The information 11



## that EPA presents is not convincing on this issue 12



## and at best suggests that additional appropriate 13



## data collection is needed. 14



## I do not support bypassing any air 15



## pollution. Bypassing means that citizens, other 16



## life forms, and building materials are 17



## automatically in danger, and I do not support 18



## that. 19



## I oppose using optical gas imaging 20



## devices in place of portable hydrocarbon 21



## analyzers, Method 21, which provide an actual 2246



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## instantaneous concentration of volatile organic 1



## compounds. You can't get that with an infrared 2



## camera. 3



## I am shocked that EPA says $3,900 per ton 4



## to reduce HAPs is an excessive amount. Back in 5



## the 1970s when I was looking at the State 6



## Implementation Plans for reducing VOC, that was 7



## considered a minor amount of money to spend to 8



## reduce tons of pollutants. I don't understand 9



## this. It makes no sense to rely upon 10



## industry-reported emissions inventories, as EPA 11



## does, to determine cost effectiveness, because 12



## industries have shown time after time, they 13



## underestimate their emissions. This is a 14



## conflict of interest. 15



## Concerning fence-line monitoring, EPA 16



## must rethink the fence-line monitoring 17



## requirements and make them continuous, 18



## state-of-the-art, immediate, and inclusive of all 19



## significant HAPs, not just benzene but also ethyl 20



## benzene, xylene, toluene, and 1,3-butadiene at a 21



## minimum. Something much quicker for sampling, 2247



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## like instantaneous sampling, is needed. The 1



## present proposal does not require sufficient 2



## elevation of monitoring stations, so that 3



## fugitive emissions from towers and other elevated 4



## equipment are reliably monitored. The public has 5



## a right to know what types of HAPs are crossing 6



## the fence line and in what concentrations they 7



## are monitoring that determines this is what the 8



## refinery industry must do, and let's not poor-boy 9



## it. They can afford half-a-million dollars or 10



## even a million dollars, if that's what these 11



## things cost. 12



## I do not support a 30 percent capacity 13



## for fluidized catalytic cracking units. Today's 14



## technology is good enough for a 10 to 20 percent 15



## capacity limit. 16



## Finally, EPA must push the refinery 17



## industry to ensure that it uses the best 18



## available control technology and monitoring 19



## technology. There is no reason to give the 20



## refinery industry a break, since oil companies 21



## are making incredible amounts of money, tens of 2248



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## millions of dollars each quarter. 1



## Thank you. 2



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Mannchen. 3



## Are there any questions for either Mr. 4



## Metzger or Mr. Mannchen? 5



## [No audible response.] 6



## MR. MANNCHEN: Thank you. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay, gentlemen. Thank 8



## you both. 9



## At this time, I would like invite John 10



## Sullivan and Jim Lefton to please come forward 11



## with your testimony. 12



## [Pause.] 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 14



## Starting with Mr. Sullivan. 15



## MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you for coming to 16



## Houston to have this hearing. Any regulatory 17



## changes in the direction of precaution will get 18



## the biggest bang for the buck right here because 19



## so many of us live very proximate to the very 20



## facilities that are creating a problem. 21



## I would like to just consider a public 2249



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## health context for this. I represent myself. I 1



## am speaking for myself, but I work at the Sealy 2



## Center for Environmental Health and Medicine, a 3



## part of UTMB, and we always look at this -- 4



## speaking for myself, we always look at this in a 5



## public health context, and consider the idea of 6



## cumulative risk, which the EPA has really 7



## developed in a very interesting way. It refers 8



## to the combined threats from exposure via all 9



## relevant routes to multiple stressors, including 10



## biological, chemical, physical, and psychosocial 11



## entities. 12



## Most of the communities that live around 13



## the Ship Channel and around refining facilities 14



## throughout the State of Texas and Louisiana have 15



## a burden of cumulative risk that they carry that 16



## is many, many, many -- you know, composed of many 17



## things. They are not all part of the refining 18



## process, of course, because of emissions, but you 19



## have to consider the vulnerability of these 20



## communities because they have this burden, and 21



## it's something that exists and can't be denied, 2250



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## even though everything about it is not 1



## attributable to any one source. And when you are 2



## writing regulations regarding emissions, this 3



## should be considered. 4



## The next thing is health disparities -- 5



## health disparities or differences in the 6



## incidence, prevalence, mortality, and burden of 7



## diseases, and other adverse health conditions 8



## that exist among specific population groups in 9



## the United States. 10



## The study that was referred to by Mr. 11



## Metzger earlier, the Coker-Symanski study that 12



## was published in Environmental Health 13



## Perspectives about the Ship Channel and that 14



## 2-mile around it where children have a 56 percent 15



## greater chance of acute lymphatic lymphoma and 16



## leukemia, this is something that is a disparity, 17



## an obvious disparity, because other parts of the 18



## city and other parts of the area don't bear that 19



## same burden. This needs to be considered when 20



## you are writing regulations that are going to 21



## guard against acute emissions or extended periods 2251



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of emissions. 1



## These communities proximate to the TRI 2



## reporting facilities in variably show higher than 3



## normal incidence of asthma, chronic bronchitis, 4



## and other negative respiratory health outcomes 5



## too. 6



## And then next thing is facility density, 7



## which is not really a public health concept, but 8



## this is something that is obvious when you come 9



## over the bridge here, coming into Galena Park. 10



## You are going to see a very dense concentration 11



## of these types of facilities, and the EPA 12



## developed a tool a long time ago called the EJ 13



## SEAT, which is a way of scoping a community's 14



## vulnerability and whether or not you could 15



## consider them an environmental justice community. 16



## And a facility density was one of the major 17



## criteria. Another one was history of compliance, 18



## what sort of compliance histories do the 19



## refineries have and chemical plants or whatever 20



## facility you are trying to regulate, and that 21



## needs to be considered. The TRI report is just 2252



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## not enough to go on, and these other things are 1



## very important. 2



## Another thing -- and this is specific to 3



## the Houston Ship Channel and any port in the Gulf 4



## right now -- we are about to undergo a period of 5



## great expansion because of the Panamax extension 6



## of the Panama Canal, and possibly Nicaragua will 7



## have their own canal. This may be another one, 8



## and the ports in the Gulf are going to attract a 9



## lot more business, which is good. It is the way 10



## the economy needs to grow, but we have to think 11



## about the added burden of pollution that this is 12



## going to create. The movement of goods, the 13



## infrastructure that is necessary to make that 14



## happen, creates this burden. It attracts more 15



## traffic, more PM, more PM2.5. There is going to 16



## be a lot of things that are not coming from the 17



## refineries that are also going to be here too. 18



## This is all here in one sort of airshed stew, so 19



## it needs to be considered. 20



## A good way to consider it is to institute 21



## the use of health impact assessments and factor 2253



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## them in, just as you would an environmental 1



## impact statement. In fact, they should be 2



## complements to one another, because we really 3



## need to think about the health impact of any 4



## policy before we institute it, rather than go 5



## back and try and fix the problem afterward. 6



## We also need to think about how will our 7



## airshed here change when the influx of upgraded 8



## bitumen shows up, and it already has to a certain 9



## extent, but this will become more prevalent as 10



## time goes on when the pipeline is finished, which 11



## it probably will be. This tar sands crude has 12



## more heavy metals in it, and probably, there will 13



## be a greater amount of sulfur emissions of some 14



## sort into the airshed. This needs to be 15



## considered as part of the cumulative-risk layer 16



## cake that develops. 17



## The analysis of complex mixtures and 18



## their effect on human health really needs to be 19



## factored into this too. It is not a 20



## chemical-by-single-chemical situation. It is a 21



## large number of chemicals, and the exposure is 2254



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## simultaneous. 1



## How does this affect human health? I 2



## know that is a very difficult and thorny issue 3



## that has been looked at for years, but it can't 4



## be ignored just because it's difficult. It has 5



## to be considered. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Sullivan, I am going 7



## to ask that you please wrap up your testimony. 8



## MR. SULLIVAN: Sure, sure. 9



## And finally, the national cost for all 10



## these externalized health problems, this has to 11



## be considered too. It is just not the cost to 12



## industry but the cost to the rest of us, the 13



## state and local government, whoever is picking up 14



## the health tab. 15



## Thank you very much for the opportunity 16



## to speak. 17



## MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 18



## testimony, sir. 19



## Mr. Lefton, good morning. 20



## MR. LEFTON: Good morning. My name is 21



## Jim Lefton, and I am an employee for the United 2255



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Steelworkers International Union, assigned to the 1



## Houston area. I am here today on behalf of our 2



## president, Leo Gerard; and the vice president 3



## that is over the oil sector of our union, Gary 4



## Beevers. 5



## As many of you know, we represent 6



## thousands of workers up and down the Houston Ship 7



## Channel, both at refineries and at chemical 8



## plants, as well as many other industries 9



## throughout Harris County. The USW International 10



## Union is supporting the proposed EPA refinery 11



## emissions rule. 12



## The union sees the proposed rules as a 13



## benefit, not only to our members but those who 14



## work inside the facility and those who are our 15



## friends and families who work and live outside 16



## the fence line. These proposed rules in concert 17



## with each other would reduce exposures not only 18



## to workers but certainly to the community and 19



## environment in general. 20



## It is not cost prohibitive, and it is 21



## necessary. Without mandatory requirements, 2256



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## refiners will not voluntarily curb any emissions 1



## but will continue to use the easily obtained 2



## exemptions to address every exceedance, which 3



## will not produce better maintenance programs or 4



## better technology for startups. 5



## The EPA has determined that implementing 6



## the proposed rules will have no noticeable effect 7



## on the price of produced petroleum products, and 8



## as an organization that deals with this industry 9



## daily, we agree. 10



## If you think of refineries as an 11



## airplane, they are, for the most part, designed 12



## to fly at optimum speed and altitude, not so much 13



## for takeoffs and landing. Additional, more 14



## refined controls would make this startup process 15



## much more controlled than it currently is in most 16



## facilities. These added control schemes would 17



## also reduce the potential for flaring during the 18



## startup processes which in and of itself is a 19



## very dangerous process. 20



## There may have to be some equipment 21



## modifications made to equipment operability, as 2257



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## most refineries, unlike an airplane, are not 1



## designed to start up and take off. An airplane 2



## has flaps to assist with lift for takeoff and 3



## landings, whereby refineries usually have no 4



## flaps, though it can takeoff and start, but with 5



## less control, it will further continue to expose 6



## the community and also do damage to the 7



## environment. 8



## Many refiners are already following some 9



## proposed pieces of these rules through EPA 10



## consent decrees, as you well know. This proposal 11



## would help level the playing field for everybody. 12



## Better combustion of flares would greatly reduce 13



## the amount of pollution that goes into the 14



## communities. Many facilities already have 15



## continuous pilots and automated steam 16



## controllers, which help to improve combustion, 17



## but this rule would require every site to comply 18



## with the same combustion rules, thereby leveling 19



## the playing field on the cost of new flare tips, 20



## combustion controls, and continuous pilots. 21



## Lowering the allowable process pressure 2258



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## on coking units when going to the flare would 1



## reduce the amount of pollutants put through the 2



## flare system and increase the amount, in our 3



## opinion, of marketable hydrocarbons captured. 4



## While a pressure of 12 to 15 psig does 5



## not sound like much, a coker drum is a very large 6



## vessel, and it becomes an issue of volume. 7



## Reducing that de-pressuring from 12 to 15 psig to 8



## 2 psig will lower emissions that go out on an 9



## 8-to-12-hour cycle per drum. With only two 10



## drums, that is a reduction of 4 flaring events a 11



## day. This will benefit the overall flare 12



## emissions reductions. 13



## As you know, benzene is a known 14



## carcinogenic, and all efforts to reduce exposure 15



## are greatly appreciated, but at the same time, we 16



## don't want to just be moving the exposed area. 17



## Workers in the facility that are exposed or have 18



## a history of benzene exposure are monitored. 19



## People living outside the fence line who may be 20



## exposed are not monitored because the potential 21



## for exposure is not known. By tracking chemicals 2259



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that are being released inside the refinery and 1



## then traveling outside, we can get a better 2



## picture of just what the hazards may be and the 3



## precautions that should be taken to reduce the 4



## level of exposure. Making that information 5



## available to the public will enable them to 6



## monitor the air in their neighborhoods and 7



## hopefully enable them to take precautions when 8



## necessary. 9



## The loss of the flaring exemption for 10



## startups, shutdowns, and upset conditions should 11



## drive a better maintenance program in the 12



## refineries. An improved mechanical integrity 13



## program can work to reduce breakdown conditions 14



## and reduce upset flarings. Also, a controlled 15



## shutdown is easier to control by pushing products 16



## through the process as opposed to pressuring 17



## equipment out through the flare. 18



## The USW has supported inclusion of the 19



## atmospheric storage tanks in the process, safety 20



## management standards under the President's 21



## Executive Order 13650, Request for Information. 2260



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The regulations for atmospheric tanks in this 1



## rule are a good fit for the alignment of PSM and 2



## the risk management rules. 3



## I want to thank you for your time and let 4



## you know that we do appreciate the work that you 5



## do. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Lefton. 7



## Are there any questions for the 8



## gentlemen? Before you go, are there any 9



## questions for Mr. Sullivan and Mr. Lefton? 10



## [No audible response.] 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, thank you 12



## very much for your testimony. 13



## MR. LEFTON: Thank you. 14



## MR. THOMPSON: Good. At this time, I 15



## would like to invite Adrian Shelley and Theresa 16



## Landrum to the podium. 17



## Adrian Shelley? 18



## MR. SHELLEY: Yes. Hello. 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Hi. 20



## [Pause.] 21



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning to both of 2261



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## you. 1



## MR. SHELLEY: Good morning. 2



## MS. LANDRUM: Good morning. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Thanks for coming. 4



## Mr. Shelley, if you could begin by 5



## stating and spelling your name for the court 6



## reporter, and begin your testimony, sir. 7



## MR. SHELLEY: Yes. Thank you. Thank you 8



## for having us all here today. My name is Adrian 9



## Shelley, A-d-r-i-a-n, S-h-e-l-l-e-y. I am the 10



## Executive Director of Air Alliance Houston, here 11



## in Houston Texas. 12



## Air Alliance is the Houston region's 13



## leading air quality and public health non-profit 14



## organization. We were one of the plaintiffs in 15



## the lawsuit that initiated this rulemaking. This 16



## has been a key issue of ours for a long time, as 17



## a lot of you here know, as a lot of you in this 18



## room know. So thank you all for being here. We 19



## really appreciate it. 20



## It has already been mentioned today, the 21



## amazing density of petrochemical industry and 2262



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## specifically the refining industry that we have 1



## right here in Houston. 2



## At this very moment, we are within 25 3



## miles of five oil refineries with a total of 4



## daily refining capacity of 1.3 million barrels of 5



## oil. That is a fraction of the 5 million barrels 6



## or so capacity that we have here in Texas. We 7



## are one of the key stones of the nation's energy 8



## industry, and in fact, Houston is known as the 9



## Energy Capital of the World. 10



## This is Texas. This is not California. 11



## We do not have Cal/EPA or any state regulatory 12



## agency that has our interests in mind. We in 13



## fact have a state regulatory agency that is 14



## interested primarily in easing the regulatory 15



## process for our industry, and in fact, our latest 16



## state slogan is "Texas Open for Business." So we 17



## thank you for being here. 18



## The protections that are going to be 19



## provided to our people here at Houston are going 20



## to come from you. They are not going to come 21



## from the states, and in fact, the state maintains 2263



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that it cannot, it actually cannot by law, impose 1



## requirements or permit terms that are in excess 2



## of federal minimum requirements. I have 3



## personally been told this by TCP representatives 4



## in the context of negotiating for fence-line 5



## monitoring technologies at oil refineries right 6



## here in Houston. We have been told by the TCEQ 7



## that even if we were to get an oil company to 8



## agree to install an advanced fence-line 9



## monitoring system, that they would not by law be 10



## able to put such a requirement in their permit, 11



## because it would be in excess of a federal 12



## minimum. So in fact, they do not have the 13



## authority to do that. 14



## All of that is a long way of saying we 15



## need your help here to protect our people. Our 16



## state regulatory agency cannot do it for us. 17



## Right now, we are among the 136,000 18



## people in Houston that live within half-a-mile of 19



## the Houston Ship Channel. We are among now a lot 20



## of the 25,000 people that are within one-half 21



## mile of one of our five oil refineries right here 2264



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## in Houston. This is the epicenter of the 1



## problem, and you are going to see with the faces 2



## up here today who these people are. I mean, we 3



## all know that we are looking at a vulnerable 4



## segment of the population here. These are 5



## invariably low-income communities of color that 6



## are being put at risk here. There are more 7



## children here. There are more people here 8



## without access to health care than anywhere else 9



## in the nation. In fact, our own surveys have 10



## showed that in some of these communities, more 11



## than 50 percent of the people lack access to 12



## health care. 13



## We are very close to the site of one of 14



## only two public health clinics that are in this 15



## area. The Galena Park Youth Clinic is out of a 16



## school right down the road. The Strawberry 17



## Pasadena Health Clinic is the only other clinic 18



## within several miles of this area. So we need 19



## these protections. 20



## I see I am getting lights here, so I am 21



## going to keep going. 2265



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## There is a lot of the rule that we 1



## appreciate. We thank you for tighter controls on 2



## flares and on delayed cokers. We appreciate 3



## that. We don't appreciate that the risk 4



## assessment found risk to our communities to be 5



## acceptable. This is primarily because we are 6



## looking at vulnerable populations here, and we 7



## have cumulative impacts in this area that have 8



## not been adequately accounted for in health 9



## impact assessments. 10



## Flares are used in the industry to 11



## dispose of gases routinely. We need hard caps on 12



## flaring in that practice in addition to the 13



## improved efficiencies that we need. 14



## We frankly find it offensive to be told 15



## that these regulations would be too expensive. 16



## We don't appreciate the fear monitoring, the 17



## scare tactics we get from the industry about 18



## gasoline prices. We have seen the regulatory 19



## impact analyses. We know, and history has showed 20



## us, that costs are not a factor here, and 21



## frankly, we find those arguments offensive. 2266



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I see that I have a red light here. I am 1



## going to close with one thing. Very recently in 2



## Denver, Colorado, at the Clean Power Plant 3



## hearing -- maybe some of you guys were there -- 4



## there was a retired coal worker, Stanley 5



## Sturgill, who said, quote, We are dying, 6



## literally dying for you to help us. 7



## Thank you. 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Shelley. 9



## Thank you. 10



## Ms. Landrum, good morning. 11



## MS. LANDRUM: Good morning, and thank you 12



## for giving me the opportunity to be here. I 13



## thought it was so important for me to be here 14



## today that I traveled all the way from Detroit, 15



## Michigan. 16



## I live in an impoverished community, 17



## predominantly African American. We are home to 18



## the only oil refinery in the State of Michigan, 19



## Marathon Oil Corporation. 20



## We have a high rate -- I have to bring a 21



## human aspect to this. This is what we are 2267



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## supposed to have, no flaring, but in my 1



## community, this is what we have on a daily basis. 2



## Not only do we have it on a daily basis, we have 3



## it, the constant bombardment of this from the 4



## startup, shutdown, and malfunction. 5



## The community that I live in, the area is 6



## called Southwest Detroit 48217. That is how we 7



## identify ourself. We have been deemed by EPA as 8



## the most polluted zip code in the State of 9



## Michigan, number three in the nation. 10



## I live in the County of Wayne. The 11



## County of Wayne has been a non-attainment for SO 2 12



## for more than 10 years. I support stronger 13



## regulations for fence-line monitoring. 14



## The reason that I feel that the EPA 15



## should implement these stronger regulations is to 16



## protect human health. Environmental Protection 17



## Agency. What is your mission? What is your 18



## goal? And what is the vision for our communities 19



## if we do not have the EPA to support the word 20



## "protection"? 21



## I heard several gentlemen mention about 2268



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## cumulative impact. We are being exposed daily to 1



## mercury, carbon dioxide, toluene, benzene, sulfur 2



## dioxide, and many, many more chemicals. When 3



## those chemicals combine, they create a toxic soup 4



## that is hazardous to human health. 5



## I am a -- 6



## [Pause.] 7



## MS. LANDRUM: -- cancer survivor. My 8



## mother, my father, and my brother all died of 9



## cancer. One household. We have a family, the 10



## Washington family, all eight were wiped out due 11



## to cancer. It is not coming for just our 12



## lifestyles. We feel it is strongly coming from 13



## the industries around us. Our homes, our land 14



## are being effected. 15



## This house is less than 300 feet from 16



## Marathon Oil. At night, we see the flaring and 17



## even the explosions. Since 1998, we have 18



## suffered five catastrophic explosions from 19



## Marathon Oil alone. 20



## When there is the flaring and the 21



## startup, this is what our snow on our grounds 2269



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## look like. 1



## We feel that the stronger regulations for 2



## fence-line monitoring would help us determine 3



## what is coming from those stacks, what those 4



## refineries are emitting. What is harming our 5



## health? 6



## These are some of our grounds around the 7



## homes. The community is deathly afraid that 8



## these oil refineries are harming us to the point 9



## that our community will no longer exist. On my 10



## block alone, we had more than 10 people that have 11



## died of cancer. We have six that are surviving 12



## cancer. On another block, we had 17 residents 13



## die within the last 5 years of cancer. 14



## I heard a gentleman say that there is no 15



## health risk. How do we know? Our doctors are 16



## not trained to identity environmentally related 17



## diseases, and I put that on the medical 18



## profession. But I put this on the EPA. Protect 19



## human life. Create stronger regulations, and 20



## impose more fence-line monitoring on these 21



## industries that can afford to pay. 2270



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## This is a metal sign. The corrosion 1



## around the city is on every metal sign. It is 2



## being eaten up by something. We feel it is 3



## coming from the oil refineries. 4



## This is one of our residents, Sheri. 5



## Just about a year ago, there was an explosion at 6



## Marathon Oil. She has what they call "sulfur 7



## burns" on her. The doctors have determined that 8



## these chemicals came from Marathon Oil, and as 9



## you can see, this is her back yard right by 10



## Marathon Oil. 11



## And this is Sheri. She has now been 12



## diagnosed with lesions on the brain, and here's 13



## some other photos. 14



## But what I wanted to show you is this 15



## here, this is her dog. Look at the chemicals 16



## that are on the ground. This is in the back 17



## yard. The chemicals are coming, what we feel, 18



## from Marathon Oil Refinery that is causing the 19



## loss of life, of animals, the land, and the 20



## people. 21



## And I appreciate you allowing me to bring 2271



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## a human aspect to all the technical words and 1



## things that are being presented to you today. 2



## Thank you. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Landrum. 4



## [Applause and cheering.] 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Before you go, I would 6



## like to extend an invitation to the panel to ask 7



## questions. 8



## [No audible response.] 9



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, thank you 10



## both very much for your testimony this morning. 11



## MS. LANDRUM: Thank you. 12



## MR. SHELLEY: Thank you. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 14



## to invite Scott Elder and James Que to come forth 15



## with your testimony, please. 16



## [Pause.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen, 18



## and thanks for joining us. 19



## We would like to begin with Mr. Elder. 20



## MR. ELDER: Hi. My name is Scott Elder, 21



## S-c-o-t-t, E-l-d-e-r. I am currently an intern 2272



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## at an airlines in Houston, and I am working and 1



## living in Houston. 2



## I would just like to start by saying that 3



## because I live here, I see daily the impact that 4



## these refineries have in the communities. It is 5



## a little bit of an outrage. 6



## First of all, I would like to talk about 7



## the EPA's new regulation on standards in coke 8



## burning and also sulfur emissions. These new 9



## regulations assume that each facility has the 10



## same catalytic cracking unit and is under the 11



## same air pressure and using the same O 2 

## enrichment 12



## in order to calculate the pollutants from the 13



## facility. However, many of these facilities are 14



## extremely old and are calibrated differently. So 15



## to assume that all of these facilities are under 16



## the same conditions, I believe, is incorrect and 17



## gives these facilities huge leeways in doing what 18



## they are supposed to do and also what they can 19



## do. 20



## Secondly, I would like to state that one 21



## of the contentious issues about the new rule is 2273



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the passive sampling opposed to that other, more 1



## non-passive methods for fence-line monitoring. 2



## The reason that it is a passive sampling system 3



## as opposed to other methods is predominantly the 4



## monetary aspect, that it costs more to put these 5



## in place. However, according to WhyCharts.com, 6



## Glow Energy, which is one of the large refineries 7



## here in Houston, has a quarterly income of over 8



## almost $600 million a quarter. To have an FTIR, 9



## fence-line monitoring system, which could be in 10



## place, it would cost about $100,000. I find that 11



## that is kind of disconcerting that there is an 12



## conceded importance put on the bottom line of 13



## this company as opposed to the health of these 14



## communities. 15



## Thank you. 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Elder. 17



## Mr. Que, good morning. 18



## MR. QUE: Yes. Good morning. My name is 19



## James Que. I am a philosopher. I am from Baton 20



## Rouge, Louisiana, and I am here with the 21



## Louisiana Democracy Project. 2274



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I am here to support the proposed oil 1



## refinery regulation changes as well as the 2



## extensions that are likely to be offered by 3



## vulnerable communities today. 4



## As Americans, we end our Pledge of 5



## Allegiance with the vision of "liberty and 6



## justice for all," and I want to suggest that the 7



## work of the EPA is really not technical work at 8



## all. Your work is actually wisdom work, and I 9



## want to suggest a framework that you can use to 10



## advance that kind of work. This is particularly 11



## useful because we have an adversarial system 12



## right now where y our opponents believe that 13



## there ought not be any limits or any rules to 14



## their activity, and so I want to suggest how you 15



## get liberty and justice for all and you advance 16



## the actual wisdom work that is the mission of 17



## your organization. 18



## The reason, by the way, that your work is 19



## wisdom work is that human beings don't have 20



## intuitions about toluene and benzene and these 21



## kinds of things. We know about catastrophic 2275



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## events, but long-term cumulative effects and 1



## stuff, this is just not stuff that nature 2



## equipped us to deal with, and so, therefore, what 3



## we have to do is get beyond logic and politics 4



## and start looking at larger and larger patterns. 5



## So I am going to suggest two frameworks 6



## that are going to be useful. First of all, if 7



## you want to have liberty for all, then what you 8



## are talking about are the four freedoms that FDR 9



## introduced to us. We are talking about the 10



## freedom from fear, that these communities ought 11



## to have freedom from fear. We are talking about 12



## the freedom to speak, that they ought to be able 13



## to articulate their concerns to themselves and to 14



## other people. We are talking about freedom from 15



## want. They ought to have the capacity to be able 16



## to have the things that they believe are 17



## necessary for their sustenance, and finally, we 18



## are talking about freedom to worship, the ability 19



## to change things as you need them. 20



## Now, the second dimension is something 21



## called the "beloved community." In other words, 2276



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## if you want justice for all, then you are talking 1



## about the beloved community, and the beloved 2



## community, as John Rawls the philosopher tell us, 3



## it is a community where every member of the 4



## community has the same kind of exposures, and 5



## that leads me to the final thing that I'd like to 6



## say. 7



## What's going on here is that right now, 8



## the risks associated with these petrochemical 9



## activities are not in any way correlated with the 10



## benefits from them, and there is something that 11



## you all can do about that. 12



## In particular -- by the way, we know 13



## right now, we got this vulnerable community model 14



## that basically says that if vulnerable people 15



## come here and they show you their stories about 16



## the misery that they suffered, then somehow or 17



## another, that should motivate you to intervene. 18



## But we know for a fact that when trees fall in 19



## forests, where none of us are around, those trees 20



## still make a sound. So if these petrochemical 21



## companies figure out a way to silence everybody, 2277



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that still doesn't mean that they are not having 1



## an adverse impact on us, which ultimately it may 2



## take 10 years. It took the Vikings 1,000 years 3



## for them to essentially marginalized or be wiped 4



## out in Greenland, and so that will happen to us. 5



## And so here's the cue. All you need to 6



## do is develop feedback mechanisms, so 7



## proportionate to the economic benefit that 8



## petrochemical companies get from their activity, 9



## there is exposure. So imagine this. Imagine 10



## that you decided that there were 10 units of 11



## exposure based upon the kind of activity they are 12



## engaged in. Then what you do is you set up a 13



## mechanism where the decision-makers in these 14



## corporations, because these are the people who 15



## actually have the ability to intervene, that the 16



## decision-makers have to have some exposure. 17



## So, for example, imagine you said, "Look, 18



## you fellows have to have somebody in the Ship 19



## Channel so many days a year, so that if there's 20



## some adverse impacts, you all are going to be 21



## feeling them." That will motivate them to use 2278



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## their Ph.D.'s and whatnot to figure out how to 1



## avoid these activities. If they say that we have 2



## to do these things, then they should also use 3



## some of their intellectual wherewithal to figure 4



## out how to do these things safely. 5



## Thank you very much for allowing me to 6



## speak. 7



## [Applause.] 8



## MR. THOMPSON: I did want to ask, Are 9



## both of you going to submit written comments, as 10



## well? 11



## MR. QUE: I hadn't planned to, but I 12



## could. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you greatly. 14



## And are there any questions from the 15



## panel? 16



## [No audible response.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Gentlemen, thank you both. 18



## Thank you very much. 19



## At this time, I would like to invite Juan 20



## Parras and Ilan Levin to please come forward for 21



## testimony. 2279



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## [Pause.] 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen, 2



## and thank you for joining us today. 3



## I will start off with you, Mr. Parras. 4



## Could you state and spell your name for the court 5



## reporter, and then please begin your testimony. 6



## MR. PARRAS: Yes. Good morning. My name 7



## is Juan Parras, J-u-a-n. Last name is 8



## P-a-r-r-a-s. I am the Executive Director of 9



## TEJAS, Texas Environmental Justice Advocacy 10



## Services. 11



## I would like to begin my testimony by, 12



## first of all, with all due respect to my 13



## Congressman Gene Green, Congressional District 14



## 29, he starts out by saying that he is today 15



## expressing his disappointment. Well, today, I am 16



## expressing my disappointment with him in the fact 17



## that he always shows up at public hearings 18



## defending the industry and the cost to the 19



## industry that it is going to cost them and never 20



## mentions public health in his community and never 21



## mentions about the impacts of air toxins to his 2280



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## community. So I am extremely disappointed with 1



## his comments today, and I just wanted that to be 2



## on the record. 3



## Additionally, I would like to say that 4



## our community is heavily inundated with toxic 5



## chemicals, cumulative chemicals. There are 6



## communities that are exposed to eight 7



## cancer-causing chemicals on a daily basis. That 8



## is illogical, it's unfair, and it's injustice. 9



## It deals with environmental injustice issues. 10



## There are 86 schools in the school 11



## district, in the Houston Independent School 12



## District. There are reports by the Center for 13



## Health and Environmental Justice, Lois 14



## Gibbs'group, that identified the most toxic 15



## schools in the nation. Houston has 86 schools 16



## that are in the top 5 percent, most toxic schools 17



## in the nation. 18



## The report was mentioned that if you live 19



## within the 2-mile radius of the Houston Ship 20



## Channel, there is a 56 percent risk of 21



## contracting leukemia. That is unjust to the 2281



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## communities that live within the Houston Ship 1



## Channel. 2



## Others have mentioned that the Panama 3



## Canal is going to drastically increase the toxins 4



## and the freight and movements of toxic chemicals, 5



## coal, coal being brought down here to the Gulf 6



## Coast to be transferred to other places. 7



## We also have the Keystone pipeline, as 8



## you know. That we in the community oppose the 9



## Keystone pipeline because it also is going to 10



## create a lot of toxic emissions into our 11



## communities, and the bottom line is that most of 12



## this oil will be refined here, so we will keep 13



## the poison and the toxic chemicals. And then 85 14



## percent of the oil will be shipped across the 15



## country. These are things that our Congressman 16



## again supports. 17



## The representative of the United 18



## Steelworkers, he had some good points that 19



## basically all the workers in all the industries 20



## support this in EPA regulations, but I mentioned 21



## to him that he failed to mention the workers. He 2282



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## never mentioned about a loss of jobs, because 1



## that is what the opponents will say, that this 2



## will definitely cause employees to lose their 3



## jobs. So I'm glad that he is with us on that, 4



## and we support all his testimony that he said. 5



## The other things that I would like -- I 6



## don't know how much time I have, but the other 7



## things I would like to do is submit at least for 8



## the record -- we do have some maps from all the 9



## industries that border the Houston Ship Channel. 10



## This is the greatest concentration of plants that 11



## we have in the nation, and that is why they call 12



## us the Petrochemical Industry of the Country. 13



## But also -- and again, this is something 14



## that has already been mentioned -- we live in a 15



## state that if our Governor is ever elected 16



## President and he has run on the issue that he 17



## will shut down the EPA, well, we live in that 18



## state, and we don't appreciate comments like that 19



## because obviously he is not impacted like we are, 20



## due to hazardous exposures and toxic exposures. 21



## But we also live in a state that every time the 2283



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## EPA drafts new policy that does have huge impacts 1



## on public health, we turn around and slap the EPA 2



## with a lawsuit. 3



## So those are the things that are 4



## happening in our state. It's unfortunate that 5



## those things happen, but it kind of gives you an 6



## idea of where our state stands really in its 7



## concerns for the public and the citizens of this 8



## state and this country. They are willing to take 9



## risks, not their personal risk, but they are 10



## willing to accept risk and placing that risk on 11



## us instead of saying, well, we need to care about 12



## everybody. Just like the gentleman before talked 13



## about life, liberty, and justice, we have no 14



## justice in this state, and I recommend that your 15



## regulations be strictly imposed, and that 16



## fence-line monitors be real-time monitors, and 17



## that we check excessive emissions because, again, 18



## this has been reported. 19



## All the industry does, because we have a 20



## voluntary system of reporting, is that they 21



## underreport all their emissions. All this is 2284



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## already on the records. I'm sure that EPA has a 1



## whole bunch of data. There is a lot of research 2



## that has been done, and there's a lot of meetings 3



## that have taken place like this. 4



## We in fact are a state that has been 5



## under non-attainment ever since the Clean Air Act 6



## was imposed or regulated. We need to make sure 7



## that we become a city, a state, an area that can 8



## meet the air quality issue. 1970, almost 40 9



## years later, we are still under non-attainment. 10



## That is ridiculous. Obviously, someone is not 11



## doing their job when we continue to be 12



## non-attainment for this length of time. 13



## So the rules, again, we welcome those 14



## rules, and we think that you ought to not only 15



## mandate those rules, but you ought to enforce 16



## either taking federal funds that come to the 17



## state, as you can, when they fail to meet the 18



## requirements of the law, and I think the 19



## testimony here so far is obviously leaning, and I 20



## hope it continues to lean in favor of public 21



## health, concern for the citizens of this city and 2285



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## this state, and that that message will go clearly 1



## to President Obama that we need to impose 2



## regulations on the industry and also on the issue 3



## of chemical security. 4



## MR. THOMPSON: And your final thoughts, 5



## Mr. Parras. Final thoughts. 6



## MR. PARRAS: Okay. My final thoughts is 7



## that it is not on the agenda right now, but we 8



## are seriously concerned about chemical security, 9



## which also has huge impacts on communities right 10



## next -- on the fence line of the industry. 11



## Thank you for your time, and I appreciate 12



## it. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. Thank you 14



## very much. 15



## Mr. Levin, good morning. 16



## MR. LEVIN: Good morning. 17



## MR. THOMPSON: If you could state and 18



## spell your name for the court reporter, and then 19



## begin your testimony. 20



## MR. LEVIN: Sure. For the record, I am 21



## Ilan Levin, I-l-a-n, L-e-v-i-n. I am an attorney 2286



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and the Associate Director of the Environmental 1



## Integrity Project, and we work with communities 2



## not just here in Texas but across the country. 3



## In Texas, we work with folks in Port Arthur, here 4



## in the Houston Ship Channel, Corpus Christi, and 5



## other refinery communities to try to enforce the 6



## laws that are on the book and to try to avoid 7



## political interference with those laws. 8



## I really appreciate the opportunity to 9



## testify briefly today, and we are going to submit 10



## detailed written comments at the close of the 11



## comment period. 12



## We need strong, clear, enforceable 13



## federal standards, and you have heard from other 14



## speakers why that is so important here, 15



## especially in Texas where we have weak permitting 16



## and weak enforcement at the state level. 17



## A quick example. We have in Texas, 18



## permits that are called "Texas flexible permits," 19



## and the Agency has recently approved the 20



## continuation of that seriously flawed program. 21



## So refineries, chemical plants, and other 2287



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## industries, but especially refineries, have used 1



## those flexible permits and will continue to use 2



## them to avoid federal new source review. It has 3



## happened just recently with an expansion at the 4



## Exxon complex, but it's also happened with 5



## several Valero facilities and other refineries 6



## around Texas. 7



## What they do is they get caps that are 8



## inflated. They can make major modifications at 9



## the facility and without going through federal 10



## new source review, and as you know, that's the 11



## time when facilities are supposed to upgrade and 12



## install the modern pollution controls. So we 13



## really rely on these federal minimum standards, 14



## federal rules that are in the Code of Federal 15



## regulations, because that's really what we rely 16



## on here in Texas to protect communities living 17



## close to refineries. 18



## With respect to the rule before us today, 19



## we support fence-line monitoring for benzene. 20



## You heard a little bit about that today, and 21



## there will be more in our comments. We support 2288



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## improved flare monitoring and combustion 1



## efficiency. We support reducing emissions from 2



## delayed cokers. We support the improved tank 3



## controls. 4



## A couple areas where the rule falls 5



## short, the risk analysis, and you heard a little 6



## bit about that from folks who live really close, 7



## on the fence line of these refineries, but there 8



## are several problems with EPA's risk analysis. 9



## The most obvious, at least most obvious to me, is 10



## that it doesn't take into account people's 11



## exposure to background levels. 12



## You have heard about the huge refinery 13



## and petrochemical complex here in Houston. I am 14



## sure you know about it. You will hear later from 15



## a couple folks that traveled from Corpus Christi, 16



## Texas, and they will tell you about their 17



## experience. But we work with folks in Corpus 18



## Christi in the little Dona Park neighborhood, and 19



## they are surrounded by six large refineries, as 20



## well as other oil and gas facilities, chemical, 21



## petrochemical plants. So you can't look at a 2289



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## refinery unit in a vacuum, because that's just 1



## not the real world. 2



## Another area where the rule needs 3



## improvement is with fence-line monitoring for 4



## benzene. That is really good. We support that, 5



## but the proposed reference level is three times 6



## higher than California's standard. Also, benzene 7



## is a good first step for fence-line monitoring, 8



## but we'd like to see monitoring for other toxics, 9



## as well. 10



## Tanks. Expanding the current standards 11



## to more and different kinds of storage tanks is a 12



## good first step, but we think EPA should do what 13



## the South Coast Air Quality Management District 14



## has required since 2008, which is that all 15



## refinery tanks need internal floating roofs. 16



## With respect to the FCCUs, the cat 17



## crackers, EPA's data collection showed 18



## disturbingly high levels of hydrogen cyanide 19



## emissions from full-burn FCCUs. As I understand 20



## it, these high hydrogen cyanide levels are the 21



## result of refineries opting for the lower cost 2290



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## nitrogen oxide controls, and so top of the line 1



## nitrogen oxides removal with the selective 2



## catalytic reduction, the top-of-the-line 3



## pollution controls for NO x 

## will, as I understand 4



## it, not cause the same hydrogen cyanide spikes 5



## that we're seeing. 6



## And I'm going to wrap up now. I see my 7



## time is up. 8



## Last point. With respect to startup, 9



## shutdown, maintenance, we support EPA's efforts 10



## to finally close the loophole that has allowed 11



## refineries to emit virtually uncontrolled 12



## emissions during these periods, and we appreciate 13



## that EPA has had a long policy on this, but many 14



## states still have vague rules. Even here in 15



## Texas, our state rules have a provision that 16



## defines a planned upset as well as an unplanned 17



## upset. 18



## Our State Implementation Plan is really 19



## kind of a mess. It's vague. It's confusing. 20



## We've tried to enforce it before and run up 21



## against a lot of roadblocks, and so we really 2291



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## encourage you to stay wrong and write these 1



## clear, enforceable federal rules that are the 2



## bare minimum that folks here in communities all 3



## across Texas rely on. 4



## Thanks a lot. I will be happy to answer 5



## any questions. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Levin. 7



## Are there any questions for Mr. Parras 8



## and Mr. Levin? 9



## MS. LASSITER: Yeah. Mr. Levin, I have a 10



## couple of questions for you. One, you make 11



## reference to the fence-line monitoring standard 12



## in California being higher. In our proposed 13



## rule, we proposed 9 micrograms per cubic meter, 14



## which is approximately -- is that 2.5 to 3 parts 15



## per billion? Right? 16



## Can you elaborate on that a little bit 17



## more? 18



## MR. LEVIN: Not a whole lot, but as I 19



## understand it -- and my colleague, Sparsh 20



## Khandeshi, is also here to testify, and he will 21



## know more about it. 2292



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MS. LASSITER: Okay. 1



## MR. LEVIN: But in general, I understand 2



## that the trigger in California is 3 micrograms, 3



## which I think is something like 1 part per 4



## billion. So it is sort of -- I think the rule 5



## before us today is maybe 3 times higher. 6



## Again, we will include that information 7



## in our detailed comments. Thanks. 8



## MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 9



## MR. LEVIN: Thank you. 10



## MR. THOMPSON: Additional questions? 11



## [No audible response.] 12



## MR. THOMPSON: Gentlemen, thank you both 13



## for your testimony. Thank you very much, Mr. 14



## Parras and Mr. Levin. 15



## [Applause.] 16



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 17



## to invite Yudith Nieto and Monique Harden to 18



## please come forward with your testimony. 19



## [Pause.] 20



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, ladies. 21



## Thanks for joining us today. 2293



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Starting with you, Ms. Nieto, would you 1



## state and spell your name for the court reporter, 2



## and then please begin your testimony. 3



## MS. NIETO: My name is Yudith Nieto. It 4



## is Y-u-d-i-t-h, N-i-e-t-o. 5



## I also want to mention that Senator Gene 6



## Green was also talking about the inadequate 7



## notice, and so I just wanted to mention that I 8



## know exactly how that feels. I am from Houston, 9



## Texas. I am from a community in Houston called 10



## Manchester, which is surrounded in all fours by 11



## industry, and we are very familiar with 12



## inadequate notice. There's always leaks and 13



## emissions that we are not notified about and 14



## incidents that we are not notified. The 15



## community is not familiar with any kind of 16



## emergency response or any kind of routine 17



## emergency drills, so we are very familiar with 18



## inadequate notices. So I just wanted to mention 19



## that. 20



## Our community is disproportionately 21



## impacted by at least eight different 2294



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## cancer-causing carcinogens, and so we find it 1



## also very offensive, as some people mentioned, 2



## when some of the industry representatives mention 3



## that it is too expensive to implement technology 4



## that would protect communities. Even the lower 5



## risks to us is a very high risk for our health, 6



## so we know exactly what a lower risk means. It 7



## doesn’t mean that we are not at risk and there is 8



## no risk at all. 9



## The community lives in fear of an 10



## incident or a catastrophic explosion happening in 11



## the community, without any notices at all and no 12



## transparency between the industry or community. 13



## So they don't even have the compassion and 14



## courtesy to let us know what is going on or if 15



## there is something serious in the community for 16



## us to evacuate. 17



## There was an incident not too long ago 18



## where there was a leak that went on for 2 weeks 19



## that we were not notified about, and the only 20



## reason I know that is because I actually called 21



## the industry, different industries to find out 2295



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## what was going on, and one of the workers 1



## actually felt compelled to tell me what was going 2



## on, and it wasn't his job to tell me, but he 3



## decided that I was concerned enough for my health 4



## and my family's health to let me know that there 5



## was a leak that had been happening that was not 6



## able to be shut down. 7



## So there is the lack of transparency 8



## between even the workers as far as in case of 9



## incidence, I find, because I did call several 10



## industries, as I mentioned, and some of the 11



## workers there had no idea what I was talking 12



## about. 13



## And the incident that I was talking about 14



## where these larger plumes that were happening in 15



## the community where our houses were shaking, our 16



## windows were breaking, and the walls were 17



## cracking, and none of the industries -- we have 18



## at least eight different industries surrounding 19



## the community, and none of them knew what was 20



## going on, or they did not want to tell us. 21



## I think it was Theresa, Ms. Theresa, who 2296



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## came up here and mentioned, "I am one of the 1



## human perspectives of living in the shadow of 2



## industry and not being taken notice of whenever 3



## it comes to these incidents and these potential 4



## hazards." 5



## We do support the refinery rules, but 6



## there is nothing that says in the refinery rules 7



## that the community needs to be notified directly, 8



## not as public information and just tell us that 9



## the information is public and we need to call 10



## somebody or get online to find out what was going 11



## on. We need to be notified directly. Just as we 12



## get notified for floods or a missing child or a 13



## missing elderly, I think that we also need to be 14



## notified directly when it comes to an incident. 15



## There is a lot more that I can say, but I 16



## don't think I have enough time. I am just going 17



## to leave it at that and just sort of remind you 18



## that there are humans and there are children 19



## involved that are at risk to these facilities, 20



## and we are not just secondary to their 21



## investments. 2297



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## As somebody else mentioned, I think it 1



## was Senator Gene Green who said that these 2



## industries produce things that we do need and 3



## that we do need to buy, but if there are no 4



## people to buy them, then these industries would 5



## not exist. So we need to be taken into account. 6



## Thank you. Thank you for coming. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 8



## testimony, Ms. Nieto. Thank you. 9



## Ms. Harden? 10



## MS. HARDEN: Good morning. My name is 11



## Monique Harden. First name, M-o-n-i-q-u-e. Last 12



## name, H-a-r-d-e-n. I am the Co-Director and 13



## Attorney of Advocates for Environmental Human 14



## Rights. We are a public interest law firm in New 15



## Orleans, Louisiana, and we are dedicated to 16



## upholding the human right that we all have to 17



## live in a healthy environment. 18



## AEHR is pleased to have the opportunity 19



## to collaborate with the Deep South Center for 20



## Environmental Justice and working with Louisiana 21



## Environmental Justice community organizations to 2298



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## participate in this public hearing on the EPA 1



## proposed oil refinery rule. 2



## Nearly 30 leaders and members 3



## representing Truth Community Outreach, Louisiana 4



## Democracy Project, Mossville Environmental Action 5



## Now, Bayou Interfaith Shared Community 6



## Organizing, Sierra Club Delta Chapter, and the 7



## Youth Group of the Zion Travelers Cooperative 8



## Center are here today. 9



## We have traveled together by boss from 10



## Louisiana to provide comments and stand in 11



## solidarity with people here in Texas who organize 12



## and advocate for environmental justice and human 13



## rights and the Manchester Neighborhood here in 14



## Houston and Port Arthur and communities across 15



## this country who struggle to survive on the fence 16



## lines of oil refineries and their network of 17



## polluting industries. 18



## Health is the reason we are here, and 19



## health is a basic fundamental human rights. In 20



## this rulemaking, the EPA has the opportunity to 21



## require changes in oil refineries to prevent 2299



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## health risks. Such changes are warranted by the 1



## demonstrable evidence that people living near oil 2



## refineries are simply not healthy, and 3



## furthermore, in the Mossville, Louisiana, human 4



## rights case, which is currently pending before 5



## the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, 6



## our U.S. Government through the U.S. Department 7



## of Justice and the State Department with EPA's 8



## assistance asserts that the EPA's rulemaking on 9



## health risks from hazardous air pollutant 10



## emissions is conducted for the purpose of 11



## protecting our human right to health. That's 12



## stated in these briefs, legal briefs filed by the 13



## U.S. Government in the Mossville, Louisiana, 14



## human rights case. 15



## However, in the proposed oil refinery 16



## rule, the EPA fails to require any change at oil 17



## refineries that is based on health. The EPA 18



## fails to mention any of the community health 19



## surveys or other related health reports that 20



## identify severe health problems suffered by 21



## people who live in close proximity to oil 22100



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## refineries on the fence lines, in the shadows of 1



## these facilities. 2



## The EPA also fails to discuss in the 3



## proposed rulemaking the duty that it has to 4



## ensure that the human right to health is 5



## protected in particular for those living in close 6



## proximity to oil refineries. 7



## The EPA's determination in the proposed 8



## rulemaking that health risks from oil refinery 9



## pollution are, quote/unquote, acceptable would 10



## only continue the human rights violations 11



## suffered in fence-line communities, and this EPA 12



## determination that health risks are acceptable 13



## removes protection of our basic human right to 14



## health. For this reason, we strongly recommend 15



## that the EPA reconsider its health risk 16



## determination in the proposed oil refinery rule 17



## for the purpose of ensuring that the human right 18



## to health is protected, and that means going back 19



## to the drawing board and getting in touch with 20



## the facts and data and demonstrable proof that 21



## health risks are a significant problem and 22101



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## looking at that in view of the human rights 1



## obligation that you have as an agency to uphold 2



## and protect our human right to health. 3



## With that being said, we are generally in 4



## favor of the technological control base parts of 5



## the EPA proposed rulemaking, specifically the 6



## fence-line monitoring, the elimination of 7



## exemptions from malfunctions, shutdowns, and 8



## startups, and limits on flaring to highlight 9



## those that we are very encouraged by and support 10



## the EPA in moving forward on. 11



## Just a few additional comments with 12



## regards to each of these. As it relates to the 13



## fence-line monitoring, the EPA notes within the 14



## proposed rulemaking that the whole purpose of the 15



## fence-line monitoring is to determine whether or 16



## not benzene is in excess of 9 micrograms per 17



## cubic meter, and if it is, there is a corrective 18



## action plan scenario that would be required of 19



## the facility to reduce that emission level of 20



## benzene, and then if it continues as monitoring 21



## data would show, then another corrective action 22102



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## work plan would need to be submitted, this time 1



## for the approval of EPA. 2



## What we would encourage the EPA not to do 3



## is advocate that responsibility to the states. 4



## In Louisiana in particular, we already have toxic 5



## ambient air pollution standards that are not 6



## enforced by the state. To allow our Louisiana 7



## Department of Environmental Quality to take over 8



## the corrective action plan work would be beyond 9



## negligent. It would be irresponsible, and it 10



## would not provide any protection to ensure that 11



## benzene emissions -- and it should extend to 12



## other hazardous air pollutants, but at least in 13



## this case, benzene emissions would actually go 14



## beneath or 9 micrograms per cubic meter. 15



## To wrap up, with regards to the emission 16



## exemptions that would be prevented during 17



## startups, shutdowns, and malfunctions, this is an 18



## excellent opportunity for EPA to bring 19



## requirements and policies that have been 20



## developed and continuing to be developed with 21



## regards to chemical security and industrial 22103



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## facility safety, because the goal here is how do 1



## you stop the malfunctions, and so we can 2



## eliminate the exemptions for pollution that would 3



## be counted, but the real goal for human lives is 4



## how do you prevent the malfunctions. Looking at 5



## best practices like near-miss incident reporting 6



## would be kinds of things that should be brought 7



## into this section of the technological controls. 8



## These things are already in existence and should 9



## be brought in to ensure that malfunctions can be 10



## prevented and minimized as much as possible. 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Harden. 12



## Are there any questions for Ms. Nieto or 13



## Ms. Harden? 14



## [No audible response.] 15



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much for 16



## your testimony. 17



## [Applause.] 18



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 19



## to invite Lyric Turner and Dorothy Felix to 20



## please come forward for testimony. Lyric Turner 21



## and Dorothy Felix. 22104



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## [Pause.] 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, ladies, and 2



## thank you for joining us this morning. I would 3



## like to begin with Ms. Turner first. 4



## Ms. Turner, if you could start by stating 5



## and spelling your name for the court reporter, 6



## and then you can begin with your responsibility. 7



## MS. TURNER: My name is Lyric Turner, 8



## L-y-r-i-c, T-u-r-n-e-r, and I am associated with 9



## the Zion Travelers Cooperative Center. 10



## Hello. My name is Lyric Turner. I am 11



## from downtown Phoenix in Plaquemines Parish, 12



## Louisiana. I am the Youth Coordinator of 13



## Connecting Kids to the Environment, a project 14



## that involve skids going out and testing the 15



## water to see if there is any pollution in the 16



## water. 17



## I am also the Youth Director of the 18



## Summer Enrichment Program at the Zion Travelers 19



## Cooperative Center, also known as ZTCC, which 20



## started in 2008 with only two kids and has grown 21



## into 32 kids. After Hurricane Katrina and 22105



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## rebuilding the homes in my community, I started 1



## to focus on coastal restoration, climate change, 2



## and pollution. 3



## Before I start my comments, I want to 4



## first give thanks to the ZTCC and the Deep South 5



## Center for Environmental Justice for giving me 6



## this opportunity to speak on my behalf of my 7



## community. 8



## I sit here today asking you for a healthy 9



## future for my generation. As I read the EPA 10



## proposed regulation for oil refinery pollution, I 11



## noticed the language is unnecessarily difficult 12



## to understand. All pollution regulations should 13



## be made easy to understand and since we are all 14



## affected by pollution. 15



## Now let's get into the rules. EPA should 16



## add these proposed regulations, a process for 17



## clear communication with fence-line communities 18



## to identify and prevent oil refinery operations 19



## that would violate the proposed regulations. 20



## So to identify the violation, our 21



## community needs EPA to do the following. First, 22106



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## clearly communicate what the proposed regulation 1



## would change at oil refineries. Second, train 2



## people on what to look for at oil refineries; for 3



## example, flaring. And lastly, make the 4



## monitoring data easy to understand and easy to 5



## get. 6



## To prevent a violation, our community 7



## needs the EPA to do the following. First, hire 8



## enough inspectors who can go and investigate oil 9



## refinery operations. Second, make these 10



## inspection reports easy to understand and easy to 11



## get. Third, make the penalties fit the crime. 12



## No more slaps on the wrist. And last, ensure 13



## that the oil refinery doesn't repeat a violation. 14



## My community has a lot of people with 15



## asthma, both children and adults. My sister, 16



## Lariel Turner, who is here with us today, suffers 17



## from asthma. Asthma is caused by oil refinery 18



## pollution. My community is surrounded by an oil 19



## refineries, which is Phillips 66 and other 20



## industries, United Bulk, Chevron, ConocoPhillips 21



## and Stonehaven. I have a problem with the EPA 22107



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## saying in the proposed regulation that the risk 1



## of cancer and other health problems like asthma 2



## is susceptible. ZTCC is calling on EPA to 3



## withdraw this part of the proposed regulation 4



## because it is not based on EPA going to 5



## fence-line communities and recognizing the health 6



## problems we suffer. 7



## So, in conclusion, in defense of my 8



## communities who suffer from oil refinery 9



## pollution and regulations to protect our rights 10



## to participate and monitoring enforcement and 11



## assessing health risks. Special efforts needs to 12



## be made to show that youth are part of this 13



## participation. 14



## As a young person, I am eager to find a 15



## way to connect the kids to the environment, to 16



## learn about preventing pollution, because the 17



## future is in our hands. 18



## Thank you. 19



## [Applause and cheering.] 20



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, Ms. Felix. 21



## MS. FELIX: Good morning. 22108



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Could you please state and 1



## spell your name for the court reporter and begin 2



## your testimony. 3



## MS. FELIX: I am Dorothy Felix, 4



## D-o-r-o-t-h-y. Felix is F-e-l-i-x. 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 6



## MS. FELIZ: I am Dorothy Felix, President 7



## of Mossville Environmental Action Now, which is 8



## also known as MEAN, and MEAN has been working for 9



## years to change the environmental conditions in 10



## the community. 11



## Although I strongly support EPA's new 12



## proposed refinery rule, there are concerns that 13



## must be rectified if the rule is to be approved. 14



## I reside in the community of Mossville, 15



## Louisiana, which is an African American community 16



## founded in the 1700s, and this community is 17



## located right in the middle of 14 large 18



## industrial plants. Because the state is 19



## audacious enough to believe our community is not 20



## already saturated with chemical plants, it is in 21



## favor of SASOL erecting the largest, the first of 22109



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## its kind in the United States, a gas-to-liquid 1



## ethane cracker plant. This announcement was made 2



## in December, on December 3rd, 2012, by the 3



## Governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal, which had no 4



## community input or involvement. 5



## Since then, SASOL has offered to buy out 6



## the community, but residents feel that the offer 7



## SASOL is extending is unfair and unjust. So, 8



## frankly, it is time our government establishes 9



## rules, enforces rules, and executes stiff 10



## penalties for those who break the rules. 11



## These plants need to improve their 12



## operations. They need to reduce excessive 13



## flaring, numerous upsets, and releases. These 14



## plants also need to stop saying these chemicals 15



## do not go beyond the fence line. 16



## If EPA's proposed refinery rule becomes 17



## endorsed, an independent impartial third party 18



## needs to oversee the monitoring to ensure 19



## infractions result in stiff accountability. 20



## Enforcing compliance is a necessary. No human 21



## being should have to live in polluted areas where 22110



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## deadly chemicals and toxics are present in 1



## communities where the toxic upsets and releases 2



## result in diminishing the residents' health and 3



## cause deaths. 4



## In fact, many residents in Mossville were 5



## tested for dioxin, and the test revealed that 6



## some of their blood levels were three times that 7



## of any national comparison and as well as a 8



## section of the Mossville community being 9



## relocated as a result of groundwater 10



## contamination. 11



## Georgia Gulf exceeded the ambient air 12



## standards in excess of 5 years while residents 13



## were still living there. These hardships that 14



## our community has been forced to live with can be 15



## and must be prevented in the future, and as 16



## members of the community who have endured pain 17



## and suffering for years and years from these 18



## deadly chemicals, we appeal to you to protect us. 19



## You, the Agency in place and empowered to 20



## protect all fence-line communities, we appeal to 21



## you to strongly enforce this rule, so that we 22111



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## human beings, the current generation and future 1



## generations, will have a healthy and safe 2



## environment to live in. 3



## Thank you. 4



## [Applause.] 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions? 6



## [No audible response.] 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both. 8



## At this time, I would like to invite 9



## Margie Richard and Stephanie Anthony to please 10



## come forward for testimony. 11



## [Pause.] 12



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, ladies, and 13



## thanks for joining us. 14



## I would like to start with Ms. Richard. 15



## Please state, spell your name for the court 16



## reporter, and begin with your testimony. 17



## MS. RICHARD: Good morning. My name is 18



## Margie Eugene Richard, M-a-r-g-i-e, capital E, 19



## last name R-i-c-h-a-r-d. 20



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 21



## MS. RICHARD: Thank you so much for 22112



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## having me here. I am a resident of St. Charles 1



## Parish, living in Southeast Louisiana. It is so 2



## good to see all of you again. I am glad that you 3



## invited me here to represent community people, 4



## and that is through Truth Community Outreach, 5



## former president of CMN, and Concerned Citizens 6



## of Norco. 7



## I strongly agree with the recommendations 8



## you have, but I would like to give you some 9



## suggestions about storage tanks. I would like to 10



## suggest that in your method of measuring the 11



## leakage from the storage tanks, that you would 12



## also have a device to measure the leakage from 13



## the bottom of the tanks as well as the top, and 14



## the reason for that is because you can have 15



## seepage from the tanks that will go into the 16



## ground, and when it's in the ground, remember the 17



## process of evaporation, and then it goes into the 18



## air. So that also gives us another added 19



## pollutant, like you are going against the Clean 20



## Air Act. And if you don't have a measuring 21



## device to measure all of the leakage, not just 22113



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the top of the tanks, then we are not giving true 1



## reports. 2



## The next thing is I would like to see if 3



## there is anyway EPA can demand that all tanks be 4



## covered. There are a lot of tanks in industrial 5



## facilities that are not even covered, and to give 6



## you an example of that, just remember where I 7



## live, I am surrounded in Southeast Louisiana by 8



## over 12 petro plant, 12 industrial facilities 9



## that is both major, large, and small. That's not 10



## including the small ones, but just remember that 11



## a lot of times when you have pollution in the 12



## air, there's a little game -- I don't know if any 13



## of you know of it -- called Tic-Tac-Toe or 14



## connecting the dots. When there is an explosion 15



## or a worst-case scenario and it goes into the 16



## air, whether it's from the flaring, that goes 17



## over the 5-minute times that you have 18



## recommended, one will sense the other, the other 19



## will sense the other, and it's kind of like very 20



## hard to get to the bottom of where the pollution 21



## is coming from. That needs to be corrected. 22114



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## That needs to be considered. 1



## You also need to consider the fact that 2



## when you have community people living within the 3



## radius of 12 major plants and over 12 small ones 4



## in an area that you have constant pollution, this 5



## brings me to the fact that there needs to be 6



## another measuring device besides ambient monitors 7



## that are controlled mostly by the facilities. 8



## Community people need to have monitors that are 9



## easily to assess the data from the monitors, and 10



## also they need to have a method or way of giving 11



## input to industry. 12



## A lot of times when community people are 13



## those who are beyond the fence line, they are 14



## ignored, left out, or if they don't have a 15



## certain amount of money in their pocket, in their 16



## little local areas, they are the ones who are 17



## affected most. And this is where most of the 18



## problems are coming from. I hope that EPA have 19



## an insight beyond what has been reported as far 20



## as health is concerned. 21



## It is not possible for you, they say, to 22115



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## prove that benzene is causing the cancer, and 1



## which it is, but isn't it visible that you can 2



## see every person who is even at this hearing 3



## today is reporting the same thing that has been 4



## reported year after year, month after month? 5



## There is a disconnection with the method of local 6



## people reporting to their local agencies who are 7



## supposed to help them. That is DEQ, the 8



## Department of Environmental Quality. There is 9



## kind of like who is available in the worst-case 10



## scenario. 11



## We just had an incident in St. Rose, 12



## Louisiana, where people were calling everywhere 13



## to try to get information as to where the odors 14



## were coming from. 15



## This brings me to what lesson has been 16



## learned from Norco, Louisiana, when the micros 17



## from the storage tanks that were even being used 18



## flies into the air, and it affects the people 19



## mentally. Children look up and say, "What is 20



## that?" People look up, and the worst case, when 21



## the tanks are blowing away or in pieces if they 22116



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## are overheated, it causes chaos. It causes 1



## people not to be able to think right. 2



## So would you please add to your 3



## recommendation that industrial facilities would 4



## put aside funds for some university or some 5



## health agency to do research on how people who is 6



## living in the radius of plants or outside the 7



## fence line are affected mentally? Because 8



## certainly, it has a mental effect. 9



## There are too many children in areas on 10



## the fence line of industrial facilities who are 11



## being classed as ADD, ADHD. I could go on and 12



## on. So, certainly, there must be a mental effect 13



## for what is going on. Would you please have them 14



## come up with some type of study that can include 15



## the health effect beyond just the things that you 16



## say they can't discuss or find, and that is, you 17



## have no proof of cancer, but you have people 18



## dying of cancer. And we live in Cancer Alley. 19



## Well, how did it get the name? You have the 20



## proof. The research has been done. 21



## The next thing I want to address to you 22117



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## is -- 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Ms. Richard, I'm sorry. I 2



## have to ask you to conclude your testimony. You 3



## are well over, and we are running behind. But, 4



## again, do note that if you have additional 5



## comments you would like to make, you can certain 6



## submit in written format. 7



## MS. RICHARD: I am so obedient. Thank 8



## you, but that's always the case. 9



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 10



## Please sit tight. 11



## [Applause.] 12



## MR. THOMPSON: Ms. Anthony. 13



## MS. ANTHONY: Stephanie Anthony, 14



## S-t-e-p-h-a-n-i-e. Good morning. I am Stephanie 15



## Anthony, and I bring you greetings from Louisiana 16



## Democracy Project where I serve as Founding 17



## Director. We are a grassroots social justice 18



## organization based in Baton Rouge. 19



## Our mission is to educate, advance, 20



## encourage, and increase citizen participation in 21



## the democratic process through active involvement 22118



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## in the community. 1



## We facilitate activities which will 2



## advance and protect the long-term best interest 3



## of the community at large. We have an 4



## environmental justice program called Pray for Our 5



## Air, which was established back in 2001. We are 6



## happy with the proposed rules. We understand all 7



## too well the violations, lawsuits, and consent 8



## decrees that have made them possible. 9



## In 2009, we joined with Louisiana 10



## Environmental Action network and Tulane 11



## Environmental Law Clinic to bring a citizens 12



## lawsuit against ExxonMobil for its violations of 13



## the Clean Air Act with illegal fugitive 14



## emissions, spills, and leaks. We did not, 15



## however, win, but ExxonMobil facility in Baton 16



## Rouge and Port Allen will be paying a total of 17



## more than $2.3 million in penalties, civil fines, 18



## environmental projects, and internal improvements 19



## as part of a settlement with the Louisiana 20



## Department of Environmental Quality for 21



## infractions going back to 2008. 22119



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## We held monthly Pray for Our Air meetings 1



## at Allen Chapel AME Church, which sits in front 2



## of the Scenic Highway Refinery after Exxon had a 3



## spill. Originally, the company said that they 4



## spilled less than 10 pounds of naphthalene and 5



## that nothing went over the fence line. In this 6



## case, we later found out that the naphthalene 7



## release actually involved 26,688 pounds of 8



## benzene, 10,882 pounds of toluene, 1,100 pounds 9



## of cycle hexane, 1,564 pounds of heptane, 12,605 10



## pounds of additional volatile organic compounds. 11



## It took them from June the 14th until August the 12



## 1st to clean it up. 13



## When the local newspapers asked why the 14



## community around the plant was not alerted, the 15



## ExxonMobil spokesman stated that the community 16



## could not have done anything anyway. 17



## The neighbors around chemical plants are 18



## consistently and routinely discounted. We 19



## applaud more monitors at refineries. We wish 20



## there were more monitors not just at the 21



## refineries but all the chemical plants which 22120



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## release poisons in the air. We want to stress 1



## compliance. Compliance. We need a formula that 2



## will ensure compliance. Otherwise, we are 3



## creating a toothless, clawless lion. 4



## Self-monitoring, self-reporting of the 5



## chemical industry to us is like asking drivers to 6



## self-monitor and report how many times they run a 7



## red light or a stop sign in a quarter. We need 8



## other parties in the monitoring mix, including 9



## citizens and unbiased experts. 10



## Industry is notorious for saying no toxic 11



## chemicals went over the fence line, so we think 12



## more monitors are a great idea, and we feel that 13



## timely gathering and the dissemination of simple 14



## data is essential. 15



## We are the human monitors. Louisiana 16



## Democracy Project did an independent health 17



## survey of 200 residents who live less than a mile 18



## from the Exxon refinery. Over two-thirds of 19



## those surveyed had asthma, bronchitis, other 20



## breathing conditions, chronic nose bleeds, 21



## headaches, and cancer. We need a mechanism to 22121



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## measure the people in conjunction with monitoring 1



## the air. 2



## We believe that EPA should be a champion 3



## of the people. We would personally like to thank 4



## EPA Criminal Division for the work that they did 5



## in Baton Rouge. They walk softly and carry a big 6



## stick. We think EPA should be one of the 7



## best-funded agencies in the nation. We pray that 8



## you will not spend another day struggling for 9



## your existence. We pray that you will walk in 10



## the destiny that your founders envisioned. We 11



## pray that in every situation, you will put the 12



## well-being of citizens first. 13



## We pledge to continue to work and to pray 14



## for clean air. Thank you. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Anthony. 16



## [Applause.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions 18



## from the panel for either of the ladies? 19



## MS. RICHARD: I have a question. May I 20



## ask you a question? 21



## MR. THOMPSON: You certainly can ask. We 22122



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## will see. We can't respond. We are here to 1



## listen to you today. 2



## MS. RICHARD: That's okay. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, ladies, thank 4



## you both very much for your testimony. Thank 5



## you. 6



## At this time, we are going to take a 7



## quick 5-minute break and reconvene promptly in 5 8



## minutes. We are running just a little behind, so 9



## we want to get as many people in for lunch as we 10



## possibly can. It is 11:11. Let's come back in 5 11



## minutes, about 11:15, 11:16. 12



## Thank you. 13



## [Recess taken from 11:11 to 11:19 a.m.] 14



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay, ladies and 15



## gentlemen. If you could just grab a seat, so 16



## that we can get started. Thank you. 17



## At this time, I am going to invite Kelly 18



## Haragan and Patty Whitney to please come forth 19



## for testimony. 20



## And while they are making their way to 21



## the stage, I just do want to remind everyone that 22123



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## each of you have 5 minutes for your testimony. 1



## We are running a little behind schedule. I mean, 2



## I am fine with running over 30 seconds, 40 3



## seconds, even a minute, but in order to get 4



## everybody in and be respectful of everyone, if 5



## you could be so kind to pay attention to the 6



## clock here. When you see the red light come on, 7



## please wrap up your testimony. Begin to wrap up 8



## your testimony. 9



## With that, ladies, thank you very much 10



## for joining us this morning. We would like to 11



## start with you, Ms. Haragan. Could you please 12



## state and spell your name for the court reporter, 13



## and then you can begin with your testimony. 14



## MS. HARAGAN: Sure. I am Kelly Haragan, 15



## K-e-l-l-y, H-a-r-a-g-a-n. I am the Director of 16



## the Environmental Clinic at UT Law School. 17



## First, I'd like to thank you for your 18



## work on this very important rule. The 19



## Environmental Clinic works with communities 20



## around the state that are on the fence line of 21



## refineries. More recently, most of our work has 22124



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## been in Corpus Christi, Texas, which is home to 1



## six refineries, numerous chemical plants, and is 2



## expanding at a rally astronomical rate right now 3



## because of the Eagle Ford Shale. The new 4



## development going on in Corpus Christi is like 5



## nothing we have ever seen before. 6



## You will hear from Mr. Placker, who is 7



## from Corpus Christi, later today, but there are a 8



## number of our clients who couldn't make it here 9



## today because they are actually sick. They have 10



## cancer. They break out in rashes. When there's 11



## events at the plants, they have respiratory 12



## problems, and they are all counting on you to 13



## adopt this strong rule and to make improvements 14



## in the air quality that they breathe and their 15



## children and their grandchildren are going to 16



## breathe. 17



## They have lived for years with excess 18



## benzene emissions. There's been two refineries 19



## indicted criminally for benzene emissions in 20



## Corpus Christi. They live with flares. They go 21



## off at all hours, and in addition to the 22125



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pollutants they experience, as other people have 1



## said, it literally shakes their houses and breaks 2



## their windows, and they have had to replace 3



## windows with Plexiglas because they kept 4



## breaking. It wakes them up in the middle of the 5



## night. 6



## They also live with fear. These 7



## refineries all use hydrogen fluoride, and that is 8



## probably the thing that people are most scared 9



## of. The Corpus Christi East Refinery has had a 10



## number of accidents in the past few years with 11



## hydrogen fluoride, and some of them have been 12



## really near misses that have been devastating for 13



## workers in the plant and have almost been 14



## catastrophic for the communities around the 15



## plant. 16



## So we are really looking for your help to 17



## tighten up these rules for the people who live 18



## around the plants, and we support a lot of things 19



## in this rule. I will just address some of those 20



## quickly, because a lot of people have gone over 21



## them. 22126



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The elimination of the affirmative 1



## defenses is crucially important. It makes no 2



## difference to health why these emissions are 3



## happening, and this is a health-based rule. So 4



## it is really important that we treat those 5



## emissions just like any other emissions coming 6



## out of these plants. 7



## The fence-line monitoring, we think is a 8



## wonderful concept. It is a significant 9



## improvement. We do think that you should be 10



## monitoring for additional pollutants, and we 11



## would like to see monitoring that gives more 12



## real-time results rather than over the extended 13



## period. 14



## The tanks are particularly important in 15



## Corpus Christi right now. Every time I drive 16



## down there, there are dozens of new tanks going 17



## in. Some of our clients have new tanks literally 18



## in their back yards, so the emissions from these 19



## tanks, which are one of the biggest sources of 20



## health risks as you guys documented in the rule 21



## are really affecting people. And we think that 22127



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## there are things being done in other 1



## jurisdictions that are stronger than the 2



## requirements in the rule, like in South Coast. 3



## We support your requirements for cokers. 4



## We support more controls on flares to try to make 5



## them more efficient. We also believe that you 6



## should put some actual limits on flare emissions 7



## and require that flares only be used in 8



## emergencies. We still have some old flares in 9



## Texas that are permitted for routine operations. 10



## Lastly, hydrogen fluoride isn't really 11



## addressed in your rule, but the risks from 12



## hydrogen fluoride are catastrophic risks, and 13



## while every day the missions coming out of the 14



## plant may not cause health risks, if something 15



## goes wrong -- and it has gone wrong several times 16



## in Corpus Christi -- it could devastate the 17



## neighborhood, and there is those threat of 18



## significant risks. 19



## And then there's also the health impacts, 20



## the real impacts from living with that fear. 21



## People live day to day worrying about when an 22128



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## alarm goes off that it is going to be a hydrogen 1



## fluoride accident. So I would encourage you to 2



## also consider that the very real health impacts 3



## to people from living close to these plants and 4



## having the constant threat of accidents, the 5



## alarms going off -- one of our clients, when her 6



## grandchildren come to visit, they can only stay 7



## with her for a few days because they get 8



## respiratory problems, and then they have to go 9



## stay with a friend on the other side of town. 10



## And they are fine there. It is only when they 11



## actually come to her neighborhood which is right 12



## next to the refineries that they have problems. 13



## So beyond that, I will leave technical 14



## details to the written comments, but I would like 15



## to briefly address what I think is a major 16



## problem with the rule, and that is the assumption 17



## that the 1:10,000 is an acceptable risk. The 18



## Clean Air Act doesn't require EPA to accept that 19



## as the risk level, and EPA shouldn't accept that 20



## as the risk level. EPA acknowledges that these 21



## rules affect people of color and poor people 22129



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## disproportionately. They are more impacted by 1



## the health impacts from these rules. 2



## Both the Clean Air Act and the Civil 3



## Rights Act allow EPA to adopt stricter standards 4



## and require a reduction, a further reduction in 5



## the health impacts from refineries. 6



## Under Title 6 of the Civil Rights Act, 7



## the Agency has a duty to ensure that no person on 8



## the grounds of race, color, or national origin 9



## shall be denied the benefits of or subject to 10



## discrimination under any program or activity that 11



## receives EPA funding. 12



## I think it's discrimination to allow 13



## communities of color to face a higher health 14



## burden than the rest of the population, and that 15



## is what this rule is doing. 16



## EPA's regulations also note a duty to 17



## affirmatively try to address past discrimination, 18



## and that is what we are facing in a lot of these 19



## communities. In Corpus Christi, where we work, 20



## the communities adjacent to the plants -- 21



## Washington-Coles and Hillcrest -- were racially 22130



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## zoned. It was the only place in the city where 1



## African Americans could live. The street running 2



## through the middle of that area used to be called 3



## "Black Street," and at the same time, the city 4



## let the plants locate in that area, designated it 5



## the industrial district. As the plants grew and 6



## surrounded these communities, their property 7



## values plummeted, and it is often the only asset 8



## that these people have. They cannot afford to 9



## sell their properties and move away from the 10



## pollution. 11



## So I am asking you to use your authority 12



## not only under the Clean Air Act but under the 13



## Civil Rights Act to address this discrimination 14



## and to use all the technically feasible tools 15



## available to reduce the risk to these 16



## communities. 17



## Thank you. 18



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Haragan, 19



## for your testimony. 20



## Ms. Whitney. 21



## MS. WHITNEY: Good morning. My name is 22131



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Patty Whitney, P-a-t-t-y, W-h-i-t-n-e-y. I am 1



## from Louisiana. I am with Bayou Interfaith 2



## Shared Community Organizing. I am a community 3



## advocate. 4



## I have several things I want to cover, so 5



## I am going to kind of go fast to make sure I can 6



## get it in. 7



## One, we drove through Houston this 8



## morning, and I am so glad that there is 9



## regulatory agencies in this city and in this 10



## state who keep people from killing each other on 11



## the highways. They have rules and regulations 12



## that they follow, and that is designed to protect 13



## the general public. No one would dare consider 14



## getting rid of traffic regulations in this 15



## country, and I am offended by anyone who says 16



## that EPA should not exist, because we need the 17



## EPA to protect us. 18



## With that said, there's a lot of things I 19



## think the EPA could make themselves better at, 20



## one of which is in every kind of the major 21



## petrochemical states who are huge owners, I 22132



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## guess, of our huge sites of the petrochemical 1



## industry, it is irresponsible for the EPA to 2



## advocate their primary responsibility to protect 3



## the citizens to the local state organizations. 4



## It is ingenuous. It goes against the logic of 5



## the whole situation. You need oversight from a 6



## bigger level than the rooster in the henhouse. 7



## So that needs to be addressed perfectly, quickly. 8



## As to the new rules, we are generally 9



## supportive of all of the new rules, but we 10



## consider them just a baseline, and there is 11



## definitely room for improvement in each of these 12



## areas and in fact for more coverage in other 13



## areas, including goods movement. Anywhere there 14



## is goods movement throughout the country, there 15



## should be more monitoring of pollutants that come 16



## off of that movement of the goods. 17



## Good neighbors are made by good fences. 18



## There is an old saying early in American history, 19



## "Good fences make good neighbors." What we are 20



## now is neighbors with industries and corporations 21



## who may not have our best interest at heart. We 22133



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## need to protect that and realize that people come 1



## before profits. We need to make sure that that 2



## is always a standard in every decision, and a 3



## cost-benefit analysis is not just the cost4



## benefit ratio of how to decide of something is 5



## worthy. In the industrial world, it is also a 6



## way it should be looked at in the personal and 7



## social world, as well. 8



## Is it cost effective for us to have 9



## communities that are being destroyed through no 10



## fault of their own? And if that is a problem for 11



## the industries who want to locate there, they 12



## find it cost prohibitive to actually protect the 13



## communities they want to live next door to as 14



## neighbors, then maybe they should move out of the 15



## neighborhood and find another place where there 16



## are no neighbors they can bother. 17



## But in this case, we need to protect the 18



## neighbors who have been hereditarily 19



## disenfranchised and brought here, which includes 20



## me. 21



## So the fence-line monitoring, I think one 22134



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## suggestion I would make would be that these 1



## monitors need to be out in the community and 2



## measure at the fence line but beyond within the 3



## community itself, but also realize there should 4



## be some sort of monitoring as well that has a GPS 5



## location on it with weather monitoring capability 6



## that is real time, so that when you see an event 7



## happening, you also get to notice what type of 8



## weather is in the area at the time. 9



## I lived many years along the river in 10



## Louisiana, and it was quite common that whenever 11



## it is foggy or rainy, you get a lot more things 12



## going up in those stacks. "Oh, it's just the 13



## weather." No, it's not. But that needs to be 14



## part of the processing to where you have a 15



## baseline data collection on what type of weather 16



## is happening when there is any type of escape 17



## happening, as well. 18



## When there are elimination of exemptions 19



## during a startup, shutdown, or malfunction, that 20



## is a problem because, traditionally, when you 21



## have problems, you are going to have more 22135



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## emissions, so you are going to have more illness. 1



## You are going to have greater impacts on the 2



## neighbors. So there should be more protections 3



## for the neighbors, not less. So that needs to be 4



## part of the rule, and it needs to be increased, 5



## as well. 6



## Storage tank. We all agree on that, as 7



## well. 8



## Limits on flaring. There needs to be a 9



## citizens corps. I think that all industries who 10



## have pollutants into the air should be mandated 11



## to put money into an escrow account that provides 12



## for environmental health professional medical 13



## services in those communities to be monitored by 14



## community. The community should have oversight 15



## of who those doctors are, doctors who know what 16



## environmental risks are and what those diseases 17



## are, or also some nonbiased professional. It 18



## should not be an industry professional. It 19



## should be people, but there needs to be medical 20



## services, more than just a general practitioner 21



## who does not want to make waves, can know what 22136



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## they are looking at. Otherwise, you will never 1



## get accurate data. 2



## I know I am through. I just want to say 3



## that that's my air. That is her air and her air 4



## and his air. These natural resources are shared 5



## by every human on the planet. They do not belong 6



## to the Governor. They do not belong to the EPA. 7



## They do not belong to the industry. They belong 8



## to me. I have a right -- and my children and my 9



## grandchildren have a right -- to breathe the air 10



## that was given to us by our creator to have clean 11



## air, clean water, clean soil. No one has the 12



## right to take that away from me, no matter how 13



## much money they make. If the EPA doesn't do 14



## their job and their accountability for protecting 15



## my rights, then, yeah, maybe they just don't need 16



## to be there. 17



## I am glad you are here. I am glad. This 18



## is a start, but I urge, please protect the 19



## natural resources that are shared by every person 20



## on this Earth and are not owned by any particular 21



## government or entity. 22137



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Thank you. 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Whitney and 2



## Ms. Haragan. 3



## [Applause.] 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions? 5



## [No audible response.] 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay, ladies. Thank you 7



## very much. 8



## MS. WHITNEY: Thank you. 9



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 10



## to invite Congressman Olson and Darryl 11



## Malek-Wiley to please come forward for testimony. 12



## [Pause.] 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning, gentlemen. 14



## Thank you for joining us today. 15



## MR. MALEK-WILEY: Good morning. 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Starting with you, 17



## Congressman Olson, if you will just state your 18



## name for the court reporter and then begin with 19



## your testimony, sir. 20



## REP. OLSON: My name is Congressman Pete 21



## Olson, Texas-22. Good morning. 22138



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 1



## REP. OLSON: Thank you all for allowing 2



## me to speak this morning on this important issue. 3



## Again, I am Congressman Pete Olson. I've been in 4



## Congress for three terms, the last two terms on 5



## the House Energy and Commerce Committee. I 6



## proudly work for the Texans in Congressional 7



## District 22. 8



## I am here to learn about refinery sector 9



## rules because Houston has a lot of refineries. 10



## That goes with having the title of being the 11



## Energy Capital of the World, and that is why I 12



## formed the House Energy Caucus -- I'm sorry -- 13



## the House Refinery Caucus. 14



## With that said, I speak as a Texan who 15



## grew up just down the road here in the shadow of 16



## the Johnson Space Center, NASA. Refineries are 17



## the cornerstone of our nation's economy. Much of 18



## the quality of life in America is thanks to our 19



## dependable refinery sector. 20



## That's not news here in Galena Park. The 21



## Gulf has 48 percent of America's refinery 22139



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## capacity. We provide the gasoline, the diesel, 1



## and other products for our nation. That brings 2



## many benefits, benefits that must be balanced 3



## with clean air, clean water, and the safety of 4



## our children. 5



## Our environment is improving. We've seen 6



## ozone, nitrous oxide, and sulfur fall 7



## dramatically in recent years. These are 8



## incredible improvements but not cheap. They come 9



## at a high cost through the refineries, with a 10



## price tag well into the billions. 11



## As you know, they have made it safer to 12



## live near refineries. At this point, the health 13



## impacts are relatively small. In that sense, 14



## these refinery sector rules here today are not 15



## quite contentious, yet we should never, ever be 16



## content. We should always pursue improvements. 17



## I am not here to argue against the 18



## monitors around refineries. There will be a cost 19



## associated with those monitors. You should know 20



## that. But I worry they pick up pollution that 21



## came from somewhere else. These new regulations 22140



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## must be balanced in a sensible way, and that is 1



## where my concerns lie this morning. Safety in 2



## our refineries should always be, and has been, 3



## the top priority. 4



## Pressure relief valves and some of that 5



## equipment are rarely used now. I am told that 6



## the impact in air quality is extremely low, and 7



## yet they are critically important in presenting a 8



## disaster. And that's why I'm nervous for EPA to 9



## propose a rule that could instantly alter the use 10



## of this equipment. Industry would be forced to 11



## scramble for retrofits. Safety may decline. EPA 12



## ought to tread very lightly on equipment needs 13



## for safety. 14



## As EPA knows, cost decrease would comply 15



## as time increases. This lets refineries complete 16



## work during down time and avoids a mad rush with 17



## contractors that have equipment. It allows 18



## stakeholders, the folks of Galena Park, time to 19



## find the best approach to achieve a common goal. 20



## I caution EPA to strongly reconsider the 21



## need for rapid changes to infrastructure, 22141



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## especially any immediate deadlines in this rule. 1



## Health benefits are small and still unclear. The 2



## cost may be very large. EPA should avoid acting 3



## until we have all the answers. 4



## Thank you very much. As we say in 5



## Washington, I yield back the balance of my time. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Congressman 7



## Olson. 8



## MR. MALEK-WILEY: Good morning. My name 9



## is Darryl Malek-Wiley. That is D-a-r-r-y-l, 10



## M-a-l-e-k, hyphen, W-i-l-e-y. I am the Senior 11



## Organizing Representative for Environmental 12



## Justice and Community Partnership based on New 13



## Orleans, Louisiana. 14



## We feel that the Environmental Protection 15



## Agency needs to move faster on this rule and work 16



## harder to protect the health of community 17



## members. We are looking at an industry right 18



## now, the oil and gas industry. One example, 19



## Marathon Oil this first quarter of 2014 had a 20



## profit of $540 million. You heard testimony 21



## earlier about accidents in Detroit. There were 22142



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## accidents in Louisiana. It is time to take these 1



## gigantic profits and reinvest them into 2



## protecting the communities where these facilities 3



## are located. 4



## In Louisiana, the Louisiana Environmental 5



## Bucket Brigade has done an analysis of accidents 6



## from 2005 through 2013, and looking just 7



## specifically at the 17 refineries in Louisiana, 8



## there were over 3,764 accidents in that time 9



## period. It is time for action and more 10



## monitoring on these facilities. We need the 11



## Environmental Protection Agency to strengthen 12



## this regulation and also to make sure that the 13



## Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality 14



## enforces the action vigorously. 15



## Right now, Louisiana DEQ likes to not 16



## enforce as vigorously as we would like to see, 17



## especially on the flaring issue. One time we 18



## were doing a campaign, and we had a video camera 19



## set up on the Internet, and it was focused on a 20



## flare. You could look at it at any time of the 21



## day or night to see if it was operating. 22143



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Something like that, that data needs to be 1



## recorded in a way that communities can look at it 2



## at their own computers. The same with all the 3



## data that is collected with the fence-line 4



## monitors, the monitor system needs to be beyond 5



## just the fence line. It needs to be in the 6



## community where people live, work, and play. 7



## Because of the variances of monitoring, 8



## you might have a low level at a fence-line 9



## monitor, but this stuff would go over top of it 10



## and be more impact of the community. We need to 11



## make sure that we are picking up those types of 12



## upsets. 13



## We need to have more enforcement actions 14



## around monitoring and around operation of flares 15



## in Louisiana and Texas both, because we are the 16



## energy central. We are where the people live 17



## next to these refineries and are more at risk for 18



## health issues. We would like to see the rules 19



## expanded beyond benzene to cover a whole range of 20



## pollutants coming out of the refineries, but not 21



## only the refineries, as we all know, there are 22144



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## not just refineries in Louisiana and Texas. 1



## There are massive petrochemical plant facilities, 2



## and we need to have these same types of 3



## monitoring at those facilities looking at the 4



## range of chemicals emitted by the different 5



## plants. 6



## The Congressman mentioned that you might 7



## pick up something from a different plant, but it 8



## is still the same impact on the community. We 9



## need to find out where that is coming from. So 10



## we need to make sure that we have strong, 11



## enforceable rules that can be enforced not only 12



## by EPA and the state but by the citizens if the 13



## EPA and the state do not fulfill their regulatory 14



## requirements. 15



## Thank you very much. 16



## MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 17



## testimony. Thank you both. 18



## [Applause.] 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions? 20



## Are there any questions? 21



## [No audible response.] 22145



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: All right. Well, 1



## gentlemen, thank you again for your time today. 2



## MR. MALEK-WILEY: Thank you. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 4



## At this time, I would like to invite Mary 5



## Williams and Robert Bullard to please come 6



## forward for testimony. 7



## [Pause.] 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning to you both, 9



## and thank you for joining us. Nice talking to 10



## you this week. If you will state and spell your 11



## name for the court reporter, and then we can hear 12



## your testimony. Thank you. 13



## MS. WILLIAMS: Mary Williams, M-a-r-y, 14



## W-i-l-l-i-a-m-s. Good morning to you all. Good 15



## morning. 16



## I will be brief. My name is Mary 17



## Williams. I am Assistant Director for Community 18



## Relations at the Deep South Center for 19



## Environmental Justice in New Orleans. 20



## First of all, I would like to thank you 21



## all for having us here for this hearing. 22146



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I have been involved with working with 1



## community residents along the Mississippi River, 2



## the Chemical Corridor, and the Gulf Coast Region 3



## for over 13 years, and these residents have 4



## suffered physical and psychological health 5



## problems from the negative impact of toxic 6



## chemical exposure due to the emissions from 7



## nearby refineries in their communities. 8



## I support the EPA's efforts to strengthen 9



## refinery air toxic emission limits, monitoring 10



## these requirements to protect public health, and 11



## I do understand that this rule would require 12



## monitoring of air concentrations of benzene 13



## around the fence-line perimeter of refineries. 14



## I am in full support of the proposed rule 15



## to install passive air monitors to the fence line 16



## of refineries to measure benzene concentrations, 17



## but as we sometimes know -- as we do know that 18



## when we put measures in place to protect people 19



## and property, they sometimes fail, especially 20



## when there is severe weather or if there is an 21



## explosion. 22147



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## It would be useless to have these air 1



## monitors, if they don't function, 24 hours a day, 2



## 7 days a week in case of severe weather or some 3



## type of exposure. 4



## So my recommendation to the EPA is that 5



## you include a refinery rule that random testing 6



## of the air monitors be conducted to ensure that 7



## the monitors are able to withstand the impact or 8



## severe weather, such as hurricanes, tornadoes, 9



## earthquakes, and exposure. 10



## Thank you. 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Williams. 12



## Dr. Bullard. 13



## DR. BULLARD: Good morning. 14



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning. 15



## DR. BULLARD: My name is Dr. Robert 16



## Bullard. I am the Dean of the Barbara 17



## Jordan-Mickey Leland School of Public Affairs at 18



## Texas Southern University, here in Houston, 19



## Texas. 20



## First, I want to thank the EPA for 21



## holding this hearing and allowing the public to 22148



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## speak. It is also significant where this hearing 1



## is being held, in EPA Region 6, not Dallas but in 2



## Galena Park, in a refinery community that 3



## typifies why these proposed rule changes are 4



## desperately needed. I have to ask, "What took 5



## you so long?" That is a rhetorical question. We 6



## all know the answer. 7



## For the past three decades, I have worked 8



## with residents who live in fence-line communities 9



## near refineries in California, Michigan, New 10



## Jersey, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, and Texas. I 11



## have traveled in dozens of these communities and 12



## have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own 13



## ears too many horror stories, enough to fill at 14



## least a dozen of my books. 15



## Fence-line communities have waited for 16



## years for meaningful federal protection from the 17



## pollution from these refineries. Many state 18



## environmental agencies have failed miserably in 19



## providing this needed protection. Many 20



## environmental justice communities have little 21



## confidence in the states to lead on refinery 22149



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## emissions reduction. That is why what is being 1



## proposed by the EPA is really a big deal. 2



## Many of us had hoped the agency would 3



## have gone even further. Nevertheless, I strongly 4



## support EPA’s effort to move forward, instead of 5



## backward, when it comes to refinery emissions. 6



## Residents who live on the fence line with these 7



## refineries have a right to know what they are 8



## breathing and how these chemicals may affect 9



## their health. These residents also have a right 10



## to be protected from harmful chemicals. 11



## Refineries are not randomly distributed 12



## across the American landscape, and most Americans 13



## don’t live next to one of them. So for too long, 14



## the problems, concerns, and challenges of 15



## fence-line communities have been somewhat 16



## invisible and ignored. We all wish emission 17



## controls and level of protection were such that 18



## the refinery CEOs and their spouses, children, 19



## and grandmothers would feel safe living next 20



## door. However, we know they don’t live next 21



## door, but we know who do. 22150



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Refineries in the Gulf Coast, in 1



## Louisiana’s petrochemical corridor, whether in 2



## Port Arthur, in Houston, or Corpus Christi, the 3



## people who live in those communities do not look 4



## like America. They are overrepresented with 5



## communities of color, low-income families, 6



## children, individuals who don't have health 7



## insurance, and oftentimes people who are 8



## unemployed who could walk to work and cross the 9



## fence. But oftentimes, the jobs are not for the 10



## people who are impacted negatively by these 11



## facilities. 12



## This is not a pretty picture. EPA should 13



## not allow any families, and especially innocent 14



## children, to be overburdened with pollution and 15



## their neighborhoods to become toxic sacrifice 16



## zones. In evaluating risk, EPA needs to 17



## emphasize cumulative risk. 18



## The communities that we are talking about 19



## are not healthy communities. Their health is 20



## being challenged, and so any measures that we are 21



## talking about, metrics, have to take that into 22151



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## account. 1



## These communities can't wait for justice. 2



## They can't wait for health protection. They need 3



## it now. They have been waiting too long. 4



## The proposed rules would require for the 5



## first time to measure concentration of benzene on 6



## the fence line. This is a good start, but it is 7



## only a start. We need more chemicals. 8



## EPA should require fence-line monitoring 9



## that mandates the best current technology to give 10



## neighborhoods a real-time, continuous measure of 11



## pollution and not just a snapshot. To be 12



## effective, the standards also must be accessible 13



## to the public, enforceable, and requiring 14



## corrective action be taken quickly to fix 15



## violations. 16



## These new requirements would also mandate 17



## refiners to upgrade pollution controls for 18



## storage tanks and to ensure that gases are 19



## properly destroyed through flaring. We all know 20



## that there is a flaring game going on. 21



## Finally, we are pleased that EPA has 22152



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## committed to undertaking this long overdue 1



## rulemaking, and we urge the agency to use its 2



## authority to ensure equal protection from 3



## pollution for all Americans. 4



## Thank you very much. 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 6



## [Applause.] 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions 8



## for Ms. Williams or Dr. Bullard? 9



## [No audible response.] 10



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, thank you both very 11



## much for being here today and for your testimony. 12



## Thank you. 13



## DR. BULLARD: Thank you, sir. 14



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 15



## to invite Ericua Thomas and Willie Fontenot to 16



## come forward for testimony. 17



## [Pause.] 18



## MR. THOMPSON: Good morning to the both 19



## of you. I think it's still morning. Yes, it is. 20



## We are going to start with Ms. Thomas. 21



## MS. THOMAS: My name is Ericua Thomas. 22153



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## It is spelled E-r-i-c-u-a, T-h-o-m-a-s. Good 1



## morning to everyone. I name is Ericua Thomas, 2



## and I am from St. Gabriel, Louisiana. I am 26 3



## years old, and I was born with congenital 4



## glaucoma. I work with the Louisiana Democracy 5



## Project and Pray for Our Air. 6



## I stand before you today to support the 7



## proposal of oil refinery changes in regulation 8



## and to remind the EPA that small communities like 9



## St. Gabriel need more fence-line monitoring and 10



## is at the mercy of the petrochemical plants. 11



## I was born in a small community called 12



## St. Gabriel, Louisiana, where there were farms, 13



## sugar cane fields, trees, et cetera, but as I got 14



## older, those things have become less, due to our 15



## oil refineries and polluted air. 16



## I strongly recommend the proposal for 17



## more fence-line monitoring, not only in our big 18



## cities but also in our small communities, in and 19



## out of the surrounding communities. 20



## It is time that we need to be informed. 21



## We need to be protected, and we need to be more 22154



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## powerful about our EPA rules and proposals and 1



## action plans. 2



## I also strongly recommend that we also 3



## have better health consumptions than to have 4



## health risk. Myself, I have breathing problems, 5



## and I also have asthma. So it is essential for 6



## me, as well, to be able to enforce the 7



## regulations for oil refinery change and the 8



## fence-line monitoring. 9



## Thank you for allowing me to speak to you 10



## today, and God bless. 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you very 12



## much. 13



## [Applause.] 14



## MR. FONTENOT: Before I start, in order 15



## to help you with your hearing, if you would call 16



## out the next group before you have the first 17



## group, who are going to be the next two groups 18



## speaking. They could come, maybe sit in the 19



## front, so we have one group, that the next ones 20



## could get right up here very quickly, and that 21



## will save you about 30 minutes by the end of the 22155



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## day. 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. Your 2



## recommendation is much appreciated, and so noted. 3



## If you will state your name and spell it 4



## for the court reporter. 5



## MR. FONTENOT: My name is William A. 6



## Fontenot. That's W-i-l-l-i-a-m, A, and last name 7



## is F-o-n-t-e-n-o-t. 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 9



## MR. FONTENOT: You're very welcome. 10



## I currently serve as Conservation Chair 11



## of the Delta Chapter of the Sierra Club, which 12



## covers Louisiana, and today, this summer, I am 13



## serving as the Chair of the Delta Chapter, and I 14



## will be sending in some other written comments. 15



## I have left a copy of my presentation at the 16



## front desk. They have it in somebody's 17



## briefcase. 18



## I hate to do this, but I have to disagree 19



## with just about everyone who has made a 20



## presentation up until now, because fence-line 21



## monitoring is totally inappropriate for what you 22156



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## are trying to do. You need to be using something 1



## more highly technical, like remote sensing. If 2



## we were talking in 1950, we could be talking 3



## about fence-line monitoring, but this technology 4



## today, which would make it possible to find out 5



## what is being emitted by a plant, you can have 6



## the equipment completely read out everything that 7



## your sampling is picking up several miles from a 8



## facility, and so you wouldn't have to have 26 9



## monitors around and oil refinery. You could have 10



## a couple of remote monitors that are able to pick 11



## up a dozen different facilities at the same time. 12



## So you need to get your regulations in sync with 13



## current technology. That is, to me, a critical 14



## measure. 15



## The other thing, one of the things that 16



## is wrong with fence-line monitoring -- the 17



## presentation that I put together for today is 18



## very short, but this is a photograph that I took. 19



## I took this photograph of the Baton Rouge oil 20



## refinery, it is the Exxon oil refinery in Baton 21



## Rouge, Louisiana, which has been in operation 22157



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## since the teens, the 19 teens. That would be 1



## 1917 or earlier. This is an explosion that 2



## occurred at the Exxon refinery on Christmas Eve 3



## of 1989, and that was the same year that the 4



## Exxon Valdez accident happened. 5



## Over here is a storage tank of about 6



## 500,000 gallons of diesel fuel that was ruptured 7



## by a pipeline that ruptured, and the gas that got 8



## out exploded, killed one person and ruptured this 9



## 500,000-gallon tank of diesel fuel. 10



## Over on the right-hand side of the 11



## photograph is a little bitty white thing. That 12



## is the State Capitol in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 13



## and that building is the tallest State Capitol in 14



## the United States. It is more than 30 stories 15



## high, and if the wind was blowing just a little 16



## bit so that the smoke would be a little farther 17



## to the west, it would cover that State Capitol. 18



## You would be able to see five or ten blocks of 19



## the State Capitol rather than the whole State 20



## Capitol. That is why fence-line monitoring is 21



## not appropriate. I don't know what the specific 22158



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## gravity of benzene is, but if benzene is lighter 1



## than air, the benzene would be like the smoke off 2



## the ground. 3



## You see all this smoke coming from this 4



## diesel tank and a bunch of other smoke coming off 5



## of this refinery. If you had fence-line 6



## monitoring here, the U.S. Environmental 7



## Protection Agency, the Louisiana Department of 8



## Environmental Quality, and Exxon would be able to 9



## report if their monitoring shows that no 10



## chemicals or pollution got off of their refinery 11



## during this explosion accident, and this burning 12



## went on for more than 24 hours. 13



## So a monitor at a fence line would not 14



## pick up benzene if there is any benzene in this 15



## smoke. So I think you need to go back and talk 16



## to your scientists and figure out what kind of 17



## monitoring would be appropriate to pick up this 18



## kind of disaster from an oil refinery or any 19



## other facility. 20



## Like my other presenter here on my left, 21



## I am legally blind. I had to give up driving 20 22159



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## years ago, and it is a hereditary thing. One of 1



## the challenges -- and I see my time is up. 2



## MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. 3



## MR. FONTENOT: Thank you. 4



## One of the challenges is that the workers 5



## at these plants are your best possible first line 6



## of understanding what is happening at these 7



## facilities and in the community, and you cannot 8



## be doing these regulations to monitor benzene 9



## from Exxon or any other refinery if you are not 10



## dealing with all of the other chemical plants. 11



## There are about two dozen chemical plants within 12



## 50 kilometers of my home, and I live about 3 13



## miles from Exxon. To use kilometers, it doesn't 14



## translate to most people in this room. It would 15



## work fine if we were in Europe, but you need to 16



## talk about miles because that's the standard 17



## measure. 18



## But the workers are so important, and 19



## please look at the details about working with the 20



## community and making sure that emergency 21



## responders and people have the resources and the 22160



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## training that they need to have in order to deal 1



## with accidents like this, not just the normal 2



## releases. 3



## Thank you very much. 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you for 5



## your testimony, both oral and written. 6



## Thank you both for your testimony. 7



## Are there any questions before you guys 8



## go? Are there any questions? 9



## [No audible response.] 10



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you very 11



## much. 12



## [Applause.] 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Our next speakers are 14



## Leslie Fields and Ryan Knapick. Leslie Fields 15



## and Ryan Knapick. 16



## [Pause.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: I think I can formally say 18



## good afternoon. 19



## MS. FIELDS: Good afternoon. 20



## MR. THOMPSON: And thank you both for 21



## joining us. Starting with you, Ms. Fields, could 22161



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## you state and spell your name for the court 1



## reporter, and then give your testimony. 2



## MS. FIELDS: My name is Leslie Fields, 3



## L-e-s-l-i-e, F-i-e-l-d-s. I am the Director of 4



## the Environmental Justice and Community 5



## Partnerships Program of the Sierra Club based in 6



## Washington, D.C. I am delighted to follow my 7



## colleagues from the Sierra Club, Willie Fontenot 8



## and Darryl Malek-Wiley. I am very much 9



## appreciative of this opportunity to testify and 10



## generally support this rule. It is also great to 11



## be back on Houston and also in Galena Park. 12



## I would come here to visit my friend, the 13



## late Senator Mario Gallegos in his office here. 14



## He was very proud of this community, and so I am 15



## delighted to be here again. 16



## This rule is long and complicated, and 17



## you have heard from a lot of people. So I am 18



## just going to limit my comments to the section on 19



## the proposed rule of the startup, shutdown, and 20



## malfunction exemptions and the affirmative 21



## defenses. 22162



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## An industrial facility releases 1



## significant air emissions over short periods of 2



## time during the startup, shutdown, malfunction, 3



## and maintenance events. The pollution caused by 4



## these events often exceeds the routine pollution 5



## emitted by source during normal operations, but 6



## because of these loopholes, facilities have been 7



## exempted from these permit limits and face no 8



## penalties for these large emissions. The 9



## pollution jeopardizes public health and quality 10



## of life in these communities, as you have heard, 11



## and which are often predominantly low-income 12



## people and communities of color. 13



## Loopholes for these large pollution 14



## events should have never even existed in the 15



## first place, and fixing these problems is as old 16



## as the Clean Air Act itself. These SSMs were 17



## wrongfully approved by man of the -- since the 18



## '70s because EPA simply lacked the resources and 19



## experience to review in process at the time, but 20



## that is not the case anymore. So we are glad EPA 21



## is trying to close these loopholes particularly 22163



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## because of the litigation that was filed by the 1



## Sierra Club and other environmental 2



## organizations, many of whom are represented here. 3



## In fact, before that, even in the 1970s, 4



## EPA recognized that the SSM provisions that 5



## provide automatic exemptions violated clean air 6



## requirements but didn't initiate a broad effort 7



## to fix it. So these violations have far-reaching 8



## effects and conflict with the Clean Air Act's 9



## other requirements. 10



## States have relied on continuous 11



## compliance of emission limitations in the 12



## modeling exercises to demonstrate attainment of 13



## ambient air quality standards. In areas that are 14



## meeting air quality standards, state plans must 15



## include emission limitations designed to ensure 16



## that the air quality doesn't worsen. So a 17



## non-attainment area such as this area, they must 18



## include emission inventories that are 19



## comprehensive, accurate of the actual emissions 20



## and must include emission statements from 21



## stationary sources. 22164



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The automatic exemptions took away 1



## enforcement power from EPA and the citizens, in 2



## violation of the Sections 113 and 304 of the 3



## Clean Air Act, and so the exempting emissions 4



## undermine the core purpose of the Clean Air Act 5



## and require that EPA finally recognizes that. 6



## So that there can be no dispute that 7



## malfunctions have serious potential to injure 8



## public health and welfare. This potential 9



## doesn't depend on whether or not functions were 10



## accidents or planned when these events results in 11



## spokes, and pollution in surrounding communities 12



## suffer and in horribly tragic ways. 13



## Additionally, as my colleague, Monique 14



## Harden, mentioned, there should be an emphasis on 15



## prevention of these malfunctions. The goal of 16



## the Clean Air Act is to protect health and 17



## welfare, promote pollution prevention, and as 18



## such, when they didn't include -- since EPA is 19



## not including a regulatory affirmative defense 20



## that results in malfunction, EPA must be vigilant 21



## in its case-by-case enforcement discretion. 22165



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## In light of recent case law, the D.C. 1



## Circuit Court has recognized that EPA or citizens 2



## enforcement action, the court has the discretion 3



## to consider defenses raised and determine whether 4



## the penalties are appropriate. 5



## Regarding the residual risk assessment, 6



## EPA should evaluate it in light of the Executive 7



## Order 12898 on environmental justice and also 8



## Executive Order 12866 that concerns environmental 9



## health and safety risk that EPA has reason to 10



## believe that may disproportionately affect 11



## children. 12



## There really needs to be better overall 13



## environmental justice analysis, and EPA is 14



## totally capable of doing this, and we saw this 15



## regarding the recent work we have done on the 16



## definition of solid waste. That rule creates 17



## specific conditions for recycling hazardous and 18



## secondary materials under RCRA, and the EPA 19



## analysis could include identifying factors that 20



## affect vulnerability, potentially affect the 21



## communities in order to understand the potential 22166



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## effect of communities better. EPA should look at 1



## the other factors that affect communities, a 2



## complete risk profile. These include factors 3



## that increase likelihood of damages, obviously 4



## the facility's site within the community, and 5



## likelihood of health risk in the event of 6



## releases. These other factors should include 7



## susceptibility of the community, higher numbers 8



## of children, vulnerable populations, higher 9



## disease rates, the ability of the community to 10



## participate in decision-making or receiving 11



## information, lack of information, language 12



## barriers, lack of social capital, the ability of 13



## the community to prepare for impacts, such as 14



## evacuation issues in emergencies or again if 15



## there's been other kinds of accidents, like 16



## chemical accidents, the ability of the community 17



## to recover from environmental insults such as the 18



## lack of health care and the lack of financial 19



## resources, and the potential impacts of land use 20



## on the community, the availability of recreation 21



## and other enrichment opportunities, cumulative 22167



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## impacts, which is critically important, as has 1



## been mentioned earlier, which may include all of 2



## the above, and the distribution of environmental 3



## burdens, the location and other potential sites 4



## of pollution, such as Superfund sites, hazardous 5



## waste facilities within the same community, and 6



## the compliance rates, particularly comparing 7



## facilities subjected to other regulations. So 8



## all this information needs to be created in terms 9



## of overall disproportionate impact on these 10



## communities. 11



## We also support, as has been mentioned, 12



## the monitoring, reduction of gas flares, and I 13



## also wanted to give a shout-out to our good 14



## friend, Theresa Landrum who came down from 15



## Detroit. We have been working in that community 16



## and other communities around the country. 17



## I would also recommend at the other 18



## hearings, such as the Midwest, for those 19



## communities in Detroit, Indiana, and also for 20



## communities on the East Coast who could not 21



## participate in this hearing just because of lack 22168



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of resources and time. 1



## We appreciate this opportunity in that 2



## EPA is finally, during a long overdue period, as 3



## Dr. Bullard stated, considering these important 4



## recommendations and to vigorously and stringently 5



## enforce this rule once it's promulgated. 6



## Thank you. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Fields. 8



## MR. KNAPICK: Hi. Good afternoon. 9



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 10



## MR. KNAPICK: My name is Ryan Knapick. 11



## Knapick is spelled K-n-a-p-i-c-k. I am a Staff 12



## Attorney for the Clean Air Council. 13



## The Clean Air Council is a non-profit 14



## environmental organization headquarters in 15



## Philadelphia. The Council has members throughout 16



## the State of Pennsylvania, and for more than 40 17



## years, the Council has fought to improve air 18



## quality across the Mid-Atlantic Region and 19



## protect everyone's right to breathe clean air. 20



## Thank you for the opportunity to speak 21



## today in solidarity with our friends here in 22169



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Texas. 1



## Clean Air Council supports EPA's efforts 2



## to promulgate first-time rules that would require 3



## operators of petroleum refineries to monitor 4



## hazardous air pollutants, specifically benzene, 5



## at the fence line of facilities. These proposed 6



## rules are of increased importance to the Council 7



## because they would directly affect the 8



## Pennsylvania Energy Solutions, or PES refinery, 9



## located in South Philadelphia. This refinery is 10



## adjacent to socially disadvantaged areas, 11



## including the Grays Ferry neighborhood. 12



## Formerly operated by Sunoco, this 13



## refinery has been a chronic violator of its 14



## permits and previously subjected to numerous 15



## suits by federal, state, and city agencies. 16



## The proposed rules are positive steps to 17



## ensuring refineries such as PDS will measure and 18



## report toxic air pollution entering local 19



## communities and take necessary corrective action 20



## when limits are exceeded. However, the Council 21



## also believes that EPA should strengthen these 22170



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## rules, so they actually protect people from 1



## exposure to toxic air pollution. 2



## For instance, fence-line monitoring and 3



## related corrective action standards must mandate 4



## the use of the best current technology to give 5



## neighborhoods a real-time continuous measure of 6



## pollution, not just a snapshot, and ensure the 7



## refineries quickly fix all pollution problems 8



## through enforceable corrective action 9



## requirements. EPA must give stronger weight to 10



## its concerns raised in the proposed rule 11



## regarding passive or diffusive sampling, 12



## including the lack of real-time information 13



## feedback, short-term information that would 14



## identify the time and duration of fugitive 15



## emission events. 16



## Thus, Clean Air Council supports the 17



## implementation of active fence-line monitoring 18



## networks at all facilities affected by this 19



## proposed rule. 20



## Further, the Council believes that the 21



## advantages and information gathering and 22171



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## subsequent benefit to communities located near 1



## refineries will outweigh any concerns related to 2



## expense and/or labor. Indeed, EPA has already 3



## determined that active monitoring station 4



## networks are technically feasible and are an 5



## appropriate method for measuring emissions of 6



## hazardous air pollutants at refinery fence lines. 7



## The Clean Air Council also feels that EPA 8



## should not finalize any special for industry 9



## interests that loosen emission limits during 10



## startup, shutdown, or malfunction events. EPA 11



## must finalize limits for delayed coker units and 12



## storage tanks and make them as strong as 13



## possible. 14



## Lastly, EPA must require strong 15



## protection from wastewater and other emission 16



## points rather than rejecting protections because 17



## of distorted or inappropriate consideration of 18



## cost reductions. 19



## In summary, the Clean Air Council 20



## believes that EPA must seize this opportunity to 21



## implement truly robust and effective standards 22172



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## for petroleum refineries, including active 1



## monitoring networks at the fence lines of these 2



## facilities. Otherwise, communities such as Grays 3



## Ferry will be ill-equipped to properly address 4



## the environmental health risk they face on a 5



## daily basis. 6



## Thank you. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Knapick and 8



## Ms. Fields. 9



## Are there any questions for either or 10



## both about their testimony? 11



## [No audible response.] 12



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, thank you 13



## both. 14



## MS. FIELDS: Thank you very much. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 16



## to invite Stephen Pavel and Saleem Chapman to 17



## please come forth for testimony, and following 18



## these two will be Cecil Price and Paul Sarahan on 19



## deck. 20



## [Pause.] 21



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen, 22173



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and thank you. Thank you both for joining us 1



## today. 2



## Starting with Mr. Pavel, if you will 3



## state and spell your name for the court reporter. 4



## MR. PAVEL: Stephen Pavel, S-t-e-p-h-e-n, 5



## P-a-v-e-l. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 7



## MR. PAVEL: Thank you. Thanks very much 8



## for being here. We appreciate it. Usually, I 9



## present to World Heavy Oil Congress, AIChE, 10



## American Chemical Society. I've been in refining 11



## for about 40 years, except for 4 years, I was a 12



## high school chemistry teacher. 13



## My viewpoint is really different from 14



## everybody else's. I live in Kingwood. We are 15



## not a fence-line community. In fact, most of 16



## Houston is not a fence-line community, but we are 17



## all affected by the toxic, hazardous, poisonous, 18



## carcinogenic materials that are being emitted by 19



## refineries. And I am not going to listen to 20



## somebody that poisoned my grandparents, parents, 21



## myself, and my kids with lead tell me how I 22174



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## should approach their emissions. 1



## So we have this new heavy oil coming in. 2



## It is coming in from Athabasca, the bitumen. I 3



## worked with that for 4 years. It is the nastiest 4



## stuff you have ever seen, and as they know in 5



## Detroit and Chicago and we well know here, it 6



## just piles up coke, because coke, petcoke is a 7



## waste product that is really only for sale, that 8



## is really piled up on the banks of the Athabasca 9



## River by Suncor, and they have about a million 10



## barrels in production right now and look to have 11



## 5 million barrels coming our way. 12



## We have the new Tidal oil place, which is 13



## another source of oil, the EI gives us -- or the 14



## Basin during the Shell gas. 15



## So the biggest problem I find is, when I 16



## was looking for this, is that we have flawed 17



## emission factors that are vastly wrong, and if 18



## you go through the literature, it is anywhere 19



## from 3 to 15. But in one case, the Texas 20



## flexible permit for benzene was .005, and they 21



## were emitting about 50 pounds an hour. So that 22175



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## is 9,280 times what the flexible permit or 1



## calculated rate is. So if it is 10,000 times, 2



## chemical engineers don't even know this is going 3



## on, seriously. The real emission is 10,000 4



## times. What safety system is working? You can't 5



## go through your LOPAs, your HAZOPs, your PSMs. 6



## Everything is false. So, yeah, we should be 7



## scared. 8



## So LIDAR and DIAL, if you look to a 9



## letter from Bill White to the EPA, let's do 10



## something to get our emission factors right, that 11



## was one of the best letters I've read, 27 pages. 12



## There's a lot more toxics. If you include all of 13



## the elements, there's like 129. 14



## We have a cancer map of Houston. It's 15



## right over -- you can see where you live, and 16



## usually, people start looking. You can see it 17



## tracks where the emissions go. 18



## Let's see. The problem with benzene was 19



## a new thing. It was exposure to solvents are 20



## linked to childhood brain tumors. That's not 21



## very pleasant. PM2.5's were the invisible 22176



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## killers. There's no safe-level PM2.5's. They 1



## are related to out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, 2



## which is 90 percent fatal. Each dot on this map 3



## -- this was done by Ensor and Raun -- this is 4



## Houston. Each dot on the map is a cardiac 5



## arrest. I know three of the dots. I had a 6



## friend that had five kids, heart attack. A 7



## football coach and a guy that worked on the 8



## American Petroleum Institute's Committee on 9



## Measurement Accountability, all died of heart 10



## attacks. Roughly, PM2.5's cut 12 years off your 11



## life. These guys lived in Kingwood. These 12



## didn't live across the fence. We're all affected 13



## by this, and if we don't pay attention to the 14



## people that live out of bounds, you are not going 15



## to get support. But it's an international 16



## problem. 17



## This is a bad-air day. If you can see, 18



## this is particulates over Houston. You can see 19



## it is not a very nice day. Particulates on 20



## Houston. Again, this covers the entire 21



## landscape. This is not just across the fence 22177



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## line. 1



## Here is not too bad an air day, but it is 2



## still probably causing some people health 3



## effects. 4



## If you have ever had a child with otitis 5



## media, the inner ear infection, you can blame 6



## particulates and those guys that are emitting 7



## them. You don't drive into your gas station and 8



## say, "What can you do for my kid with this ear 9



## ache? He is whimpering. He's crying in the 10



## middle of the night." Oh, yeah, I'm going to 11



## take this advice. 12



## So that is otitis. The other thing is 13



## particulates contribute to conjugate decline in 14



## later life, to add insult to injury. 15



## This is the ozone map. It looks like 16



## Exxon might be getting a nice bit. Everything 17



## comes from the ship channel, and if you do the 18



## maps, I have hundreds. They all go. But this 19



## one is nice. It looks like Exxon's new corporate 20



## headquarters could get a nice hit of ozone. 21



## And that's the only way you get effective 22178



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## change. The DIAL measurements were great. 1



## Here's the problem with fence-line 2



## monitors. If you look -- and this is in the 3



## literature -- this is the benzene, and it is all 4



## scattered above the fence-line monitoring, which 5



## might be 10 foot off the ground, but you have all 6



## this other benzene that is going over the rest of 7



## the population. 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Pavel, I'm sorry, but 9



## your time has expired. 10



## MR. PAVEL: I know, and I watched people 11



## expire, and you still gave them minutes. 12



## MR. THOMPSON: So as I was about to day 13



## -- 14



## MR. PAVEL: Oh, good. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: -- your final words, 16



## please. 17



## MR. PAVEL: The final words, okay. 18



## So we've got serious health and safety 19



## implications when you are estimating emissions 20



## that are carried downwind. This will in fact 21



## affect all of us. It affects the people outside 22179



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of the country, because U.S. standards end up 1



## being used in Canada and all over the world. So 2



## it is not only what we do to ourselves, but this 3



## is stuff that we could be doing to others. 4



## So appreciate your time. 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 6



## MR. PAVEL: Thank you. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: And I missed your 8



## affiliation. 9



## MR. PAVEL: Well, I speak as a father and 10



## a citizen that breaths. 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Citizen, okay. 12



## MR. PAVEL: I am with Full Spectrum 13



## Consulting, which I do consulting to -- refinery 14



## training, basically. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. 16



## MR. PAVEL: But this has really changed 17



## my whole outlook because of the -- I mean, there 18



## can't be a single safety review that has been 19



## done correctly, because all emissions are 20



## under-calculated. It is incredible. 21



## MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for your 22180



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## testimony, sir. 1



## Mr. Chapman. 2



## MR. CHAPMAN: Good afternoon. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 4



## MR. CHAPMAN: My name is Saleem Chapman. 5



## Saleem, S-a-l-e-e-m. Last name, Chapman, 6



## C-h-a-p-m-a-n. I am the Director of 7



## Environmental Justice for the Clean Air Council. 8



## The Clean Air Council has been an 9



## environmental health advocate in the Mid-Atlantic 10



## Region since 1967 and is active on a number of 11



## environmental issues, including a reduction of 12



## environmental health risk within socially 13



## vulnerable communities. 14



## I sincerely appreciate this opportunity 15



## to speak in support of adopting the EPA's 16



## proposed rule to control residual risk from 17



## hazardous air emissions at the nation's petroleum 18



## refineries. 19



## From the perspective of near neighbors of 20



## refineries, such a role is long overdue. 21



## Minorities in low-income communities remain more 22181



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## readily affected by environmental pollution and 1



## the subsequent public health outcomes. 2



## Disproportionately, low-income and minority 3



## populations live in close proximity to oil 4



## refineries and thereby are exposed to a toxic 5



## combination of thousands of tons of hazardous 6



## pollutants. These pollutants are linked to 7



## increased rates of cancer, neurological damage, 8



## and other serious health impacts. 9



## The largest oil refinery complex on the 10



## Eastern Seaboard, Philadelphia Energy Solutions, 11



## formerly Sunoco, is hosted by exceptionally 12



## distressed neighborhoods of South and Southwest 13



## Philadelphia, including Grays Ferry. Sunoco had 14



## a chronic history of environmental violations and 15



## enforcement by government agencies to have truly 16



## protected the health, welfare, and quality of 17



## life of host communities. Innumerable 18



## environmental, socioeconomic, and psychosocial 19



## stressors affect Grays Ferry, earning this 20



## neighborhood the moniker of the "Forgotten 21



## Bottom." It is home of less than 1 percent of 22182



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Philadelphia's total population, but it accounts 1



## for 10 percent of the Philadelphia recipients for 2



## Section 8 housing, most of which is inhabited by 3



## persons of color. 4



## Even more disconcerting is that the 5



## National Air Toxics Assessment determined that 6



## this community faced elevated risk for cancer and 7



## other non-cancer negative health effects. This 8



## has left many residents of the neighborhood 9



## feeling helpless and powerless to protect our 10



## health. Unfortunately, these residents do not 11



## have the economic resources to simply move to a 12



## healthier neighborhood, putting them in a 13



## self-perpetuating cycle of adverse health 14



## outcomes. These are the very Americans that are 15



## most dependent agencies such as the EPA to look 16



## after their interests. 17



## Honestly, can we say that the EPA has met 18



## the obligations to the near neighbors of 19



## refineries? 20



## When the Sunoco plant threatened to close 21



## down, the federal, state, and local government 22183



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## rushed to find new buyers and bend the regulatory 1



## requirements to keep the refinery going. 2



## Then I asked why is the government so 3



## slow to ensure that the emissions from such 4



## refineries are minimized and that the health of 5



## hosting communities is adequately protected. 6



## Most in the description of circumstance, 7



## this is an environmental justice issue. Federal 8



## standards from residual risk from refineries are 9



## not adequately designed to protect public health 10



## equitably. Socially vulnerable communities 11



## already have diminished capacity to manage 12



## exposure to environmental health risk. This 13



## capacity is further diminished when these 14



## communities are not afforded the requisite data 15



## to undertake health protective measures. 16



## EPA's proposal takes significant steps in 17



## the right direction by requiring enhanced firing 18



## of fence-line refinery facilities and by limiting 19



## emissions that occur during startup and shutdown 20



## and by requiring the use technology to further 21



## lower dangerous emissions. Once finalized, these 22184



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## changes will assure more limited emissions, 1



## better plant line air monitoring, and hopefully 2



## more vigorous enforcement. 3



## On behalf of the residents and 4



## communities I work with, I urge the EPA to affect 5



## fence-line monitoring for all polluting 6



## facilities sited in these populated areas. 7



## Members of these neighborhoods being asked to 8



## host such facilities deserve to know their 9



## exposure risk. That being said, EPA's proposed 10



## fence-line monitoring may not be adequate to 11



## effectively inform residents. It appears that 12



## the EPA will allow passive systems that will 13



## require lab analysis for results, thereby 14



## delaying the responsibility to know in real time 15



## their true risk exposure. 16



## I appreciate this opportunity to appear 17



## before this panel, and this concludes my 18



## testimony. 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chapman and 20



## Mr. Pavel. 21



## Are there any questions for Mr. Pavel or 22185



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Mr. Chapman? 1



## MS. LASSITER: Mr. Pavel, are you going 2



## to provide a copy of your presentation -- 3



## MR. PAVEL: Yes. 4



## MS. LASSITER: -- or is there a 5



## particular website where the information is 6



## located that you were referencing? 7



## MR. PAVEL: Yes. 8



## MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 9



## MR. PAVEL: Thank you. 10



## MR. THOMPSON: Gentlemen, thank you both 11



## for your testimony. 12



## MS. PRICE: Hello. Good afternoon. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 14



## MS. PRICE: My name is Ceil Price. 15



## That's spelled C-e-i-l. Last name, Price, 16



## P-r-i-c-e. I am Senior Assistant City Attorney 17



## for the City of Houston. On behalf of Mayor 18



## Annise Parker, the City and its operating 19



## departments, including the Department of Health 20



## and Human Services, I thank you for this 21



## opportunity to provide comments on the proposed 22186



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## petroleum refinery sector risk and technology 1



## review and new source performance standards. My 2



## oral comments now this afternoon summarize more 3



## extensive and technical ones that the City will 4



## submit in writing. 5



## The City of Houston unequivocally 6



## supports the proposed rule. The City comments 7



## EPA for its work, which benefits all affected 8



## parties. Reduced emissions means that refineries 9



## will lose less product, and of course, reduced 10



## emissions also achieve cleaner air for the 11



## surrounding communities. The proposed rule 12



## eliminates long recognized weaknesses in current 13



## operational approaches in three main ways. 14



## First, the City of Houston has long had a 15



## concern with emissions from storage tanks, 16



## flares, and coking units. The health department 17



## performed a study a couple of years ago which was 18



## funded by EPA that found actual emissions from a 19



## floating roof tank battery were more than 150 20



## times greater than the estimated value. Houston 21



## supports the proposal and the proposed rule that 22187



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## facilities use a gas chromatograph on flares and 1



## GC provides real-time data on flare destruction 2



## efficiency and it reduces uncertainty with 3



## reporting emission events. 4



## Houston supports the use of combustion 5



## zone net heating value, and so that the flare 6



## vent gas that heating value to determine the 7



## maximum allowable flare tip velocity. Again, 8



## EPA's proposal would yield data that relies on 9



## real-world parameters. 10



## Houston also supports de-pressurization 11



## of delayed coking units to 2 psig prior to 12



## venting to the atmosphere. This action may 13



## prevent the release of some VOC emissions which 14



## reduces again the impact to the surrounding 15



## communities while allowing some operational 16



## flexibility. 17



## Second, it has been the City's experience 18



## that emissions from startup, shutdown, and 19



## malfunctions are directly related to larger 20



## emissions compared with normal operations. The 21



## EPA-funded Houston study that I mentioned a 22188



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## minute ago documented that problem, and the 1



## proposed rule would eliminate many industry 2



## exemptions. 3



## The City supports the use of real-time 4



## fence-line monitoring instead of passive 5



## monitoring in areas with a dense network of 6



## flares and multiple other emission sources like 7



## areas found in and around Houston. 8



## Real-time monitoring systems provide 9



## immediate feedback for leak detection, a greater 10



## potential for reduced emissions, as well as the 11



## potential, of course, to reduce product losses. 12



## Finally, the City of Houston has long 13



## been concerned that emissions that are actually 14



## entering our ambient air have been underestimated 15



## and, as the previous speaker noted, 16



## underreported. While Houston does support the 17



## use of benzene as an indicator for the presence 18



## of other VOCs in the ambient air, the City 19



## respectfully suggests that total hydrocarbons be 20



## measured concurrently. That activity would guard 21



## against overloading samplers and then 22189



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## inadvertently undercounting benzene. 1



## Further, we think that the proposed 2



## benzene action level is too high. Houston has, 3



## as you know, multiple refineries in the source 4



## category, as well as many additional benzene 5



## sources that are not covered by this rule that 6



## are located near each other and also located near 7



## residential areas. 8



## The City of Houston strongly believes 9



## that the proposed ruled must have a mechanism to 10



## ensure that the air has improved, not further 11



## deteriorated, and Houston respectfully requests 12



## that you consider the limit of 4.5 micrograms per 13



## liter, which is similar to TCEQ's long-term 14



## effects screening level. 15



## I thank you for your time, and I will 16



## yield any remaining time for questions or to 17



## other speakers. 18



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Price. 19



## MR. SARAHAN: Good afternoon. 20



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 21



## MR. SARAHAN: I am Paul Sarahan. 22190



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## P-a-u-l. Last name is spelled S-a-r-a-h-a-n. I 1



## am with Thompson & Knight, and today, I am 2



## speaking on behalf of the Texas Oil and Gas 3



## Association. 4



## TXOGA appreciates the opportunity to 5



## provide a brief summary of issues it has 6



## identified with respect to the proposed rule that 7



## is the subject of today's hearing. 8



## We note at the outset that EPA's own 9



## analysis shows that the public is already 10



## protected under current regulations with an ample 11



## margin of safety, as EPA defines it, and that the 12



## public health benefits from the rule, under 13



## best-case scenarios, would be quite small. 14



## To achieve the promised small public 15



## health benefits, each of EPA's analyses, 16



## assumptions, and conclusions must be correct. 17



## Unfortunately, because EPA's conclusions are not 18



## supported by sufficient and accurate data and 19



## analysis, the American public will only find out 20



## later that the promised improvements in public 21



## health were actually nonexistent. 22191



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## While TXOGA shares concerns that it 1



## understands have been addressed by the API and 2



## AFPM, our testimony today is focused on facets of 3



## the proposed rule dealing with fence-line 4



## monitoring and flaring operations. 5



## EPA's fence-line monitoring concept in 6



## the proposal is not scientifically justified. 7



## EPA justifies the requirement for fence-line 8



## monitoring based on its concern for the perceived 9



## uncertainty in the emission factors for refining 10



## sources of hazardous air pollutants, and the 11



## assumed lack of monitoring data in the areas that 12



## surround refineries. 13



## Through its proposal, EPA assumes that 14



## all refineries have inadequate air monitoring 15



## data for their surrounding areas. That's 16



## incorrect. EPA has failed to acknowledge the 17



## availability of an extensive historical, 18



## Texas-based ambient air monitoring dataset for 19



## benzene in its concept development or in 20



## specifying alternative options. 21



## As EPA knows, TCEQ measures air toxic 22192



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## concentrations, including those for benzene, at 1



## approximately 82 monitoring sites across Texas, 2



## mostly in urban and industrial areas. Many of 3



## these monitors are sited close to refinery 4



## boundaries. 5



## Also of note is EPA's inappropriate 6



## scientific basis for setting an action-level 7



## concept and the value of that action level. EPA 8



## has utilized refinery emission inventories of 9



## benzene and modeling to create a value under 10



## which EPA believes all monitoring at refinery 11



## fence lines should meet. These emission 12



## inventories are the same uncertain values for 13



## which it justifies the need for fence-line 14



## monitoring in the proposal. 15



## EPA also proposed an impractical and 16



## cumbersome means to appropriately account for 17



## off-site, upwind, and for excluded on-site 18



## sources in the calculation of background levels. 19



## That should be excluded from the action-level 20



## value. 21



## TXOGA also has concerns regarding the 22193



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## lack of options for performance-based reductions 1



## in monitoring requirements. A robust dataset of 2



## area air monitoring that indicates that benzene 3



## emissions are well controlled and protective of 4



## public health and the environment should obviate 5



## the requirement for a fence-line monitoring 6



## system or allow an operator to curtail the 7



## frequency of that fence-line monitoring. 8



## With respect to flare operation, EPA's 9



## proposed limits of 270 and 380 BUT per SCF are 10



## not supported by available data. These limits 11



## are overly conservative and will result in 12



## excessive addition of supplemental gas. TXOGA 13



## recommends instead a single lower limit that is 14



## supported by science. 15



## The proposal also requires flares to meet 16



## flare-tip velocity and visible emission limits at 17



## all times when flaring, even during full 18



## hydraulic loads from rare emergency events that 19



## exceed the design capacities of the flares. This 20



## is impractical. 21



## While EPA recognizes that there is 22194



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## virtually no available data for non-assist 1



## flares, it concludes that it is reasonable to 2



## assert that the requirements for non-assist 3



## flares should parallel those for steam-assist 4



## flares. 5



## TXOGA recommends that the rule address 6



## only steam-assist flares, with a single limit as 7



## discussed above, as there is no data to support 8



## the regulation of air-assist or non-assist 9



## flares. 10



## TXOGA appreciates the opportunity to 11



## provide this testimony, and we will be submitting 12



## more detailed comments to the docket to address 13



## these and other important issues. 14



## Thank you very much. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 16



## Are there any questions? 17



## [No audible response.] 18



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, thank you 19



## both. 20



## Okay. Our next speakers are Jesse 21



## Marquez and Billy Placker, and following are 22195



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Donald Smith and Sparsh Khandeshi. 1



## [Pause.] 2



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen. 3



## MR. MARQUEZ: Good morning. Thank you 4



## for this opportunity. My name is Jessie Marquez, 5



## J-e-s-s-e, M-a-r-q-e-z. I am a resident of 6



## Wilmington, a community of Los Angeles. I am 7



## also Executive Director of the Coalition for a 8



## Safe Enforcement. 9



## I am here on behalf of 36 residents of 10



## the L.A. area from Wilmington, San Pedro, Harbor 11



## City, Lomita, Long Beach, and Carson, who asked 12



## me to hand-deliver their public comments, and so 13



## each one has prepared their comments. And I 14



## would just like to read you some of their 15



## concerns and why they wish to submit these 16



## comments. 17



## This is from Mr. Eduardo Herrera: "In 18



## 1995, I was diagnosed with leukemia and had to go 19



## through the terrible ordeal of chemotherapy at 20



## Kaiser Hospital for over 1 month. I have learned 21



## that oil refineries release a chemical called 22196



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## benzene which is known to cause leukemia. I want 1



## you to do everything in your power to stop the 2



## release of benzene and other cancer-causing 3



## chemicals from oil refineries." 4



## "Hello. My name is Anna Marie Vigil, and 5



## I live in Harbor City, California. I am 6



## suffering from Stage 4 kidney disease, asthma, 7



## diabetes, high blood pressure," and she has eye 8



## problems, which she says, "I believe is caused by 9



## my exposure to toxic air pollution from 10



## ConocoPhillips oil refinery near Harbor City, a 11



## few miles from my home." 12



## This is from Sofia Caerio, "I have 13



## pulmonary fibrosis, chronic bronchitis, and high 14



## blood pressure, which I believe is caused by my 15



## exposure to unsafe levels of toxic chemicals in 16



## the air being released daily from oil refineries 17



## and the flaring occurring from the four oil 18



## refineries near my community." 19



## This is from Balin Alcatros [ph]: "I am 20



## writing to inform you that I am supporting 21



## stricter oil refinery oil pollution standards and 22197



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## stricter regulation of oil refinery manufacturing 1



## operations. My husband has a tumor, and my son 2



## has asthma, which I believe is caused by our 3



## exposure to toxic oil refinery pollution." 4



## And I will turn these in, but I do want 5



## to clarify some things that seem not be known 6



## clearly, and that is technology exists today off 7



## the shelf that can prevent over 90 percent of all 8



## emissions from a refinery, so it's not a myth. 9



## It is scientific fact that they are off the 10



## shelf. 11



## The U.S. EPA, even on their website, has 12



## validated, certified, approved vapor recovery 13



## systems. All that requires is building an extra 14



## storage tank, so that instead of burning it 15



## through a combustion unit, the flue gasses will 16



## go to an empty storage tank. That is how simple 17



## that process is. It is not complicated 18



## whatsoever. 19



## The South Coast Air Quality Management 20



## District in California has already adopted a 21



## flare minimization plan requirement. This year, 22198



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## as of 2014, every and all six oil refineries in 1



## the L.A. area have a flare minimization plan in 2



## place, so it exists, and it is working and 3



## operating, so that other states and other 4



## communities understand that they do exist and are 5



## operating right now, and we fully supported them. 6



## Another area of our concern was the fact 7



## that we were talking about public health. A 8



## health risk assessment only tells you who might 9



## die of cancer. In Europe, they have already 10



## adopted health impact assessments as an accurate 11



## assessment of public health, and if you combine 12



## that with a public health survey, it is 99 13



## percent on the mark. 14



## Now, what does a health impact assessment 15



## tell you? Well, when you include the public 16



## health survey, it is a door-to-door public health 17



## survey. It will tell you exactly who has 18



## leukemia, who has lymphoma, who has myeloma, who 19



## has lung cancer, who has COPD, who has asthma, 20



## who has autism, who has diabetes, because why? 21



## The survey documents it, so you know exactly in 22199



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the communities that border a refinery, how many 1



## people have these illnesses, how old they are, so 2



## you can determine if they are children or they 3



## are senior citizens. It will tell you how long 4



## they have had this illness, what the financial 5



## cost has been to them. 6



## So we ask that you include health impact 7



## assessments as another health assessment tool, 8



## because a health risk assessment is not good 9



## enough. 10



## Thank you. 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Marquez. 12



## Mr. Placker. 13



## MR. PLACKER: My name is Billy Placker, 14



## B-i-l-l-y, P-l-a-c-k-e-r, and I am from Corpus 15



## Christi, Texas, and I live in what they call Dona 16



## Park down there, where I'm on a refinery road. 17



## And I don't believe I'm on the fence line. I 18



## believe I'm in the fence. 19



## The contamination we have down there in 20



## our yards is unreal, and just to allow you to 21



## understand this, I heard one time the EPA didn't 22200



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## accept hair samples about what you may have in 1



## you. Well, me and my grandson had hair samples 2



## done one time, and lead from zero to 100, you 3



## shouldn't even be a 1. I topped out over 100 on 4



## lead, cadmium, 48 on arsenic, 98 on aluminum. My 5



## 12-year-old grandson had half of what I did. 6



## Well, if it ain't in us, it's on us, which means 7



## it's in the air, it's in the ground, and it's 8



## inside our homes. And that's living inside that 9



## area right there. 10



## The neighborhood I live in consists of 11



## 300 homes. My mother and my father live in the 12



## neighborhood and have for 51 years. My daughter 13



## and four grandchildren live next door to me, ages 14



## 4, 9, 10, and 15. All four of them were born and 15



## raised in this area, and all four of them have 16



## ADHD. I haven't heard anybody here talk about 17



## ADHD yet, and it seems to be something there's a 18



## lot of kids in this neighborhood that have ADHD. 19



## When I first moved over there, there was 20



## only one small refinery. Now there's six of 21



## them. They keep getting bigger and bigger all 22201



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the time. 1



## Two of my grandchildren have severe 2



## asthma. It's hard to watch them with the 3



## different medications and stuff they take. They 4



## change who they really are. When they are not on 5



## their medication, they are jumping all over the 6



## place, and in reality, that is probably who they 7



## are. But we have to give them medications to 8



## calm them down, so they can go to school. 9



## When they can't breathe from the asthma 10



## and we have to rush them to the hospital, it is 11



## really hard. It's hard to watch your grandchild 12



## like that right there and not really know what to 13



## do. 14



## It seems like there's always flaring all 15



## the time over there. The smell of the refinery 16



## lingers in the neighborhood all the time. 17



## I used to work in the refinery 18



## construction, so I know what's going on in there, 19



## and I used to work for a leak ceiling company, 20



## where we would go in and fix all types of leaks 21



## on the lines. Sometimes it would take days for 22202



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the parts that were measured and ordered to come 1



## in, so the product would leak and blow through 2



## the neighborhood. So I know why we smell the 3



## scents that we do. 4



## In our neighborhood, my wife and I have 5



## gone door to door talking to the people about 6



## their experiences in our area. One half of the 7



## homes are dealing with cancer or have dealt with 8



## cancer in the past. Most of the children seem to 9



## have mental health issues of all kinds. Then 10



## there are a lot of birth defects and woman unable 11



## to have children or miscarry. Why does it take 12



## so long for people who deal with these issues to 13



## admit there is a problem and do something about 14



## it? 15



## We come to meetings like this hoping big 16



## industries would stop compromising people's 17



## lives. What about the next generation? This is 18



## not just a local problem. 19



## I would like to add I worked for a 20



## company. We used to go in and fix leaks in these 21



## plants out there. The things that we used to do 22203



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## out there in the middle of the night would make 1



## your hair stand up. We almost blew up -- I 2



## almost died once a week. 3



## One time, we were working on a leak, and 4



## I told this guy, I said, "Why don't you all shut 5



## down? It's liable to kill one of us," and he 6



## allowed me to understand that we had another 7



## crew, that we were expendable. Needless to say, 8



## I quit at that point. 9



## When I have seen so much in these plants 10



## out there, what goes on, other than just doing 11



## these monitoring -- we have a monitoring station 12



## at the end of our street there, and there's 13



## actually six of them in there. TCEQ and other 14



## agencies have these monitors down there. We 15



## never hear anything about it. They are tearing 16



## down a plant at the end of our street that has 17



## contaminated our neighborhood, and that stuff 18



## keeps blowing across our neighborhood. Sometimes 19



## they stop because the wind gets going too much. 20



## So what? It's still blowing over here. 21



## What about the monitoring? Who does 22204



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## anything about it? I still don't understand that 1



## part. Every time we come to a meeting like this 2



## right here, I appreciate that you all are taking 3



## it farther. 4



## And I'll tell you what, when you got 5



## grandchildren that come to you -- and my grandson 6



## had so much contamination in him, and he came to 7



## me and asked me if he was going to die. We have 8



## children and grandchildren. Do something about 9



## this. The children are having such a hard time 10



## with this, and people that live in the fence line 11



## or on the fence line should be removed from that 12



## area right there. It is a nation problem. 13



## Everything is going everywhere. The fracking in 14



## Texas and the air pollution, where is our country 15



## heading? 16



## I thank you all for hearing me today. 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Placker. 18



## [Applause.] 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Before you go, I do want 20



## to extend an invitation to my colleagues to ask 21



## questions, but I do have one question for Mr. 22205



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Placker. 1



## You said that you have gone from one to 2



## six refineries since you moved in your community. 3



## What was that time span? What was that? How 4



## many years? 5



## MR. PLACKER: Well, I'm fixing to be 51 6



## right now, so it's been a long span. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. 8



## MR. PLACKER: And I know that the newer 9



## ones as they come in, I know that they are doing 10



## more and more things to supposedly protect us out 11



## there, but the things that we used to do to keep 12



## them from shutting down so they would not lose 13



## their money is unreal. And to be out there and 14



## working out there and knowing and then later on 15



## finding out what I found out, it makes it kind of 16



## hard. 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you 18



## again. 19



## Any additional questions? 20



## [No audible response.] 21



## MR. THOMPSON: Gentlemen, thank you both 22206



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## for your testimony. Thank you very much. 1



## [Applause.] 2



## MR. THOMPSON: Donald Smith? 3



## [No audible response.] 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Is Donald Smith here in 5



## the room for testimony? 6



## [No audible response.] 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, I guess that 8



## concludes our testimony before lunch. Let me do 9



## a time check here, folks. It is 12:50. How 10



## about that? 11



## Let's take a lunch break. I am not sure 12



## how long that break is going to be, but we were 13



## supposed to reconvene at one o'clock originally. 14



## So let's shoot for, let's say, 1:15 until further 15



## notice. All right? Thanks, folks. 16



## ATTENDEE: You mean 1:15? 17



## MR. THOMPSON: I mean 1:15 until I can 18



## walk outside, figure out what's going on, and 19



## come back. Okay? All right, thanks. 20



## [Break taken from 12:50 to 1:21 p.m.] 21



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay, ladies and 22207



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## gentlemen. If everyone could please just take a 1



## seat. We'd like to get started. Thank you. 2



## [Pause.] 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Again, I would like to 4



## just thank all of you for joining us for today's 5



## hearing. I'm just going to go over the logistics 6



## for the day, and then we will proceed with our 7



## testimony. 8



## The way those logistics are going to 9



## work, I will call the scheduled speakers to the 10



## table in pairs, which is located right here in 11



## front of me. When it is your turn to speak, 12



## please state your name and your affiliation 13



## before you begin your testimony. It would help 14



## the court reporters if you could also spell out 15



## your name, and they are sitting here in front of 16



## me. 17



## In order to be fair to everyone, we would 18



## like to let you know that we are going to limit 19



## your testimony to 5 minutes each and ask that you 20



## remain at the table until both speakers have 21



## completed his or her testimony. After you finish 22208



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## your testimony, members of the panel may ask 1



## clarifying questions. If you would like to 2



## provide us with a copy of your testimony, please 3



## give that to the staff at the registration desk 4



## in the lobby before you leave today. 5



## If any questions arise throughout the 6



## day, please see the staff at the registration 7



## desk for assistance. 8



## Again, thank you for joining us, and I 9



## would also like to say if you have not signed up 10



## to speak and would like to do so, you should do 11



## so now. 12



## So, with that, at this time, I would like 13



## to ask Brett Perkison and Rebecca Bruhl to please 14



## come forward for testimony. 15



## [Pause.] 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon to the both 17



## of you. Thank you for joining us. 18



## So please state and spell your name for 19



## the court reporter. 20



## DR. PERKISON: Okay, sure. Hi. I'll go 21



## first. My name is Dr. Brett Perkison. It's 22209



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## B-r-e-t-t; Perkison, P-e-r-k-i-s-o-n. 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 2



## DR. PERKISON: I am Assistant Professor 3



## of Family Community Medicine at Baylor College of 4



## Medicine. I am board-certified in family 5



## medicine as well as occupational and 6



## environmental medicine. The Medical Director of 7



## Baylor is soon to open an Environmental Medicine 8



## Clinic here in Houston. 9



## I have had 15 years of clinical 10



## experience treating patients in primary care in 11



## the Houston area, and I have worked as an 12



## occupational and environmental medicine 13



## physician, both in academics and in industrial 14



## setting on the Houston Ship Channel. 15



## I appreciate the opportunity to speak to 16



## you today about the EPA's proposed petroleum 17



## refinery rule and applaud the EPA's efforts to 18



## reduce air toxics emissions from refineries. 19



## Air pollution is a serious concern here 20



## in Houston. We have chemical and refinery plants 21



## in close proximity to more than 2 million people, 22210



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and despite the many controls that have already 1



## been put in place by industry, some neighborhoods 2



## still have outdoor concentrations of air 3



## pollution high enough to pose a health risk. 4



## Medical problems related to air toxics 5



## exposure are not only devastating to individuals 6



## and their families but are a huge economic burden 7



## to Houston in terms of lost productivity and 8



## increased health care costs. 9



## There's two air toxics I was wanting to 10



## mention today of particular concern, given the 11



## high levels repeatedly on the outdoor air 12



## monitors in the Houston area, and that is benzene 13



## and 1,3-butadiene. The link between occupational 14



## exposure to these chemicals and the development 15



## of both pediatric and adult cancers is well 16



## established, and benzene and 1,3-butadiene are 17



## only two examples of really thousands of 18



## different chemicals that would be further 19



## controlled if the EPA fully implements this rule. 20



## I think one of the implementations for 21



## EPA rules would be the releases, the controlled 22211



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## releases that sometimes momentarily can cause 1



## exceedance in these rather than sort of the 2



## annual averages, that I think your rules would 3



## help control that. 4



## I am going to let Dr. Rebecca Bruhl now 5



## discuss several important new studies that are 6



## out, sort of more cutting-edge, and particularly 7



## relevant to the proposed rule, and most of these 8



## studies examine health effects associated with 9



## air pollution mixtures at outdoor concentrations, 10



## that previously the individual concentrations 11



## were thought to be safe. 12



## DR. BRUHL: My last name is B-r-u-h-l. 13



## So I am Rebecca Bruhl, and I am an Assistant 14



## Professor of Medicine at Baylor College of 15



## Medicine and Associate Director for Baylor's 16



## Environmental Health Service. 17



## Because our time is limited, I just 18



## wanted to talk directly to EPA's request for 19



## comments regarding the effects of early life 20



## exposures to emissions from petroleum refineries. 21



## As you are aware, early exposures often 22212



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## result in lifelong and sometimes devastating 1



## health consequences. So, according to this rule, 2



## EPA doesn't believe that environmental health or 3



## safety risk addressed by the action represents a 4



## disproportionate risk to children, but I just 5



## wanted to highlight some recent studies that 6



## suggest that levels of air toxics we experience 7



## every day, and they are often even higher in some 8



## of the neighborhoods close to the refineries, 9



## increase the risk for childhood cancers, birth 10



## defects, and other major health problems in our 11



## children. 12



## So, for example, there is growing 13



## evidence of a link between early childhood 14



## cancers, such as acute lymphoblastic leukemia, 15



## acute myeloid leukemia, bilateral retinoblastoma 16



## with greater exposure to traffic-related 17



## pollution during the mother's pregnancy, and 18



## there's a new case control study based on records 19



## of children under age 6 from the California 20



## Cancer Registry that found that the risk of acute 21



## lymphoblastic leukemia was significantly elevated 22213



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## from increased exposure during the third 1



## trimester of pregnancy, and so this was exposure 2



## to benzene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, 3



## arsenic, and some other air toxics. 4



## The risk of acute myeloid leukemia is 5



## also elevated with increased exposure to benzene, 6



## chloroform, and two other traffic-related toxics 7



## during the third trimester. 8



## So these studies suggest that the 9



## exposure during the third trimester and early 10



## life may be critical to the development of cancer 11



## later in life, and these kind of windows of 12



## disproportionate effects are well established and 13



## should be addressed. 14



## Similarly, a study published in 2011 by 15



## Lupo and associates using the Texas Birth Defects 16



## Registry found that mothers living in census 17



## tracts with the highest levels of benzene during 18



## their pregnancy were significantly more likely to 19



## have children with spina bifida, which is a 20



## devastating birth defect. 21



## An article that is soon to appear in the 22214



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## widely respected Journal of Epidemiology suggests 1



## that in utero exposure to ambient air toxics, 2



## which includes 1,3-butadiene, benzene, toluene -- 3



## benzene, xylene, formaldehyde, lead, and 4



## chlorinated solvents from traffic and industry 5



## emissions increased the risk of autism in 6



## children. 7



## So because there are high correlations 8



## among the pollutants and ambient air, it is 9



## difficult to disentangle the effects of single 10



## substances. It could be the mixtures of ambient 11



## air pollution, rather than single pollutants or 12



## related to the specific health endpoints, 13



## possibly synergistic effects. So cumulative or 14



## concurrent exposures, the mixtures, environmental 15



## agents, as well as the non-chemical stressors 16



## like noise and stress, can modify the effects of 17



## single chemicals. 18



## So although EPA has been studying 19



## cumulative and multi-pollutant effects, the 20



## proposed rule is still somewhat weak in this 21



## regard. 22215



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Although there are still many 1



## uncertainties in the medical literature related 2



## to the impact of air toxics on reproductive and 3



## developmental outcomes, what we do now is -- that 4



## our community is burdened with high levels of 5



## pollution and multiple stressors that increase 6



## the susceptibility to health-related disorders, 7



## and so recent studies suggest that children may 8



## be at especially high risk. 9



## So, in my opinion, you need to do a 10



## better job of accounting for and minimizing the 11



## impact of air toxic emissions on children's 12



## health and protect our already-overburdened 13



## communities. 14



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 15



## Let me ask, are you planning to submit 16



## written testimony? 17



## DR. BRUHL: Yes, yes. 18



## MR. THOMPSON: Because the studies, I'm 19



## interested in learning more about this. 20



## DR. BRUHL: Yep. I have all the 21



## references. 22216



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Great. 1



## Are there any questions? 2



## [No audible response.] 3



## MR. THOMPSON: All right. Well, thank 4



## you both. Thank you very much. 5



## At this time, I would like to invite Andy 6



## Zellinger and Dr. Beverly Wright to please come 7



## forward for testimony. 8



## While they are making their way to the 9



## front of the room, on deck we are going to have 10



## Katie Moore and Craig Beskid. 11



## [Pause.] 12



## MR. ZELLINGER: I believe I saw Dr. 13



## Wright in the foyer right there. 14



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Well, if she 15



## transitions in, we will save her a seat. How 16



## about that? 17



## All right. So, Mr. Zellinger? 18



## MR. ZELLINGER: Yes. My name is Any 19



## Zellinger. A-n-d-y. Zellinger is 20



## Z-e-l-l-i-n-g-e-r. I am the Monitor and 21



## Coordinator with the Louisiana Bucket Brigade. 22217



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Good afternoon. I will start by thanking 1



## you and your colleagues at the EPA for taking the 2



## time to prepare this proposed rule, which will 3



## improve health outcomes for many residents living 4



## near petroleum oil refineries. 5



## I am here today to represent Louisiana 6



## Bucket Brigade, an environmental health and 7



## justice non-profit based on New Orleans. Our 8



## vision, Louisiana as a healthy, prosperous, 9



## pollution-free, and just state where people and 10



## the environment are valued over profit. 11



## Our mission, the Bucket Brigade uses 12



## grassroots action to create an informed healthy 13



## society with a culture that holds the 14



## petrochemical industry and government accountable 15



## for the true cost of pollution. 16



## Bucket Brigade reviews accident reports 17



## which have been self-reported by Louisiana's 17 18



## refineries to the State Department of Environment 19



## Quality. These facilities pollute the air in 20



## nearby communities with a toxic soup of 21



## carcinogens, neurotoxins, and hazardous metals. 22218



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## This toxic air pollution means increased risk of 1



## cancer, respiratory problems, hospitalizations, 2



## and premature death. 3



## Specifically, in Louisiana, our 4



## communities are plagued by both ongoing emissions 5



## of hazardous air pollutants from refineries and 6



## upsets and accidents. Our refineries averaged 7



## six accidents per week in 2012, according to 8



## their own self-reports. These pollutants which 9



## are released make people sick and are linked to 10



## increased cancer, asthma, and respiratory 11



## diseases. 12



## On to the proposed rule, which although 13



## we do support the EPA's efforts, we encourage the 14



## EPA to strengthen the final rules in the 15



## following areas. 16



## Residual risk assessment. The current 17



## risk assessment most likely underestimates the 18



## residual risk to communities. A new assessment 19



## is needed. Evidence that the risk is higher than 20



## expected can be extrapolated from Toxic Release 21



## Inventory data from 2013 from the Louisiana 22219



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## refineries. According to this TRI data, 1



## refineries in Louisiana emitted over 5 million 2



## pounds of toxic air pollutants in 2013, including 3



## over 180,000 pounds of benzene, over 166,000 4



## pounds of hydrogen sulfide, and nearly 2 million 5



## pounds of hydrogen cyanide. 6



## Like one of the speakers earlier 7



## mentioned, to reduce NO x 

## would in turn also reduce 8



## hydrogen cyanide, so I would encourage the EPA to 9



## focus on that in the rule. My main point here is 10



## risk that has been found acceptable for 1:10,000 11



## is clearly unacceptable to communities. 12



## On to storage tanks, although once again 13



## the EPA has made groundbreaking efforts here to 14



## upgrade controls and regulate more types and size 15



## of tanks and vessels, we need more rules that 16



## don't allow loopholes and exemptions for older 17



## grandfathered tanks. Part WW of the proposed 18



## rule which allows older tanks to be grandfathered 19



## in should be stricken from the proposed rule, and 20



## I hope the final rule does not offer any 21



## exemptions for existing tanks and all tanks are 22220



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## held to the new increased standards. 1



## On to flares, I once again applaud the 2



## EPA's efforts to establish more stringent 3



## operating requirements to ensure good combustion, 4



## and this includes the flow and content being 5



## measured, but I will highlight the reasons why 6



## just measuring the flow and content is not 7



## enough, and we also need to measure the outputs, 8



## what is coming out of the flare. 9



## I do understand that the FTIR monitoring 10



## flare emissions was one of the things that helped 11



## influence this rule, but that was when you were 12



## writing the rule, but there is nothing in the 13



## rule that includes continued FTIR monitoring for 14



## future flare emissions. 15



## So my first point on flares is that flare 16



## efficiency needs to be based on specific 17



## conditions, not assumed percentages, and right 18



## now, facilities can assume a flare combustion 19



## efficiency between 98 and 99 percent, but what is 20



## the data availability for the outputs? Clearly, 21



## the proposed rule will track base flow and 22221



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## content, which is very important; however, there 1



## are several factors accorded by EPA's own 2012 2



## Flare Technical Report prepared by the U.S. EPA 3



## Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards, 4



## which detail when flare efficiency is 5



## significantly decreased. 6



## From the report, they mentioned 7



## over-steaming, excess aeration, high winds, and 8



## flam liftoff as four factors that could decrease 9



## flare efficiency, so I hope that the FTIR data 10



## can be used in ongoing flare emissions, not just 11



## when this rule is created. 12



## Secondly, flare use in non-emergencies 13



## and overuse of flaring frequency and duration, 14



## flares are reportedly being used less frequently 15



## due to current regulations, but there are still 16



## abuses of flaring where there are flaring events 17



## occurring over multiple days, rather than simply 18



## for an emergency release. To make the abuses of 19



## flares as routine emission points rather than 20



## emergency control devices, there needs to be the 21



## FTIR data to also allow for, my third point, 22222



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## enforceability. 1



## If we are able to offer the EPA any 2



## advice, it is that these rules should be 3



## enforceable, so the State DEQ can actually go in 4



## and catch the polluter when they are abusing a 5



## flare device. 6



## I am going to close now with my last 7



## point. It is that we need real-time data 8



## availability and preferably through a website the 9



## community can access very easily. 10



## Unfortunately, one of my colleagues, Ms. 11



## Velma White -- she is the President for Residents 12



## for Air Neutralization. She has been the 13



## Founding Director of that organization for the 14



## last 20 years. She has worked around the Calumet 15



## facility in Shreveport, Louisiana. She is unable 16



## to make it today because her children have 17



## chronic health issues, so that is just the 18



## perfect example of why people that should be here 19



## to testify are too sick and burdened with the 20



## pollution from refineries to be here today. 21



## Thank you for your time. 22223



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 1



## testimony. 2



## Dr. Wright, welcome. 3



## DR. WRIGHT: Thank you. 4



## My name is Dr. Beverly Wright. I am 5



## Director of the Dillard University Detox Center 6



## for Environmental Justice in New Orleans, 7



## Louisiana. 8



## I have worked with fence-line communities 9



## for over 20 years and have experienced firsthand 10



## the detrimental impacts of toxic releases on 11



## these communities. I have seen the mental 12



## anguish, the physical harms, the overall 13



## diminished quality of life, the noxious smells, 14



## and the overwhelming environmental insult to 15



## people living in close proximity to these 16



## refineries. 17



## I have witnessed the devastating to the 18



## health of families potentially due to the release 19



## of toxins from these plants. I understand 20



## fence-line communities. I understand their fears 21



## of environment accidents, their fears of death, 22224



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and their fears that their voices are too small 1



## to be heard. It is that understanding which has 2



## led our Center to work with EPA on behalf of 3



## fence-line and other environmental justice 4



## communities over the years. 5



## I strongly support EPA's proposed 6



## refinery rule. For the first time, EPA would 7



## require refineries to monitor concentrations of 8



## benzene in the air. EPA has set a benzene level 9



## of 9 micrograms per million as an acceptable 10



## level. Louisiana air pollutant ambient air 11



## standard for benzene is currently 12 micrograms 12



## per million. This difference can potentially 13



## translate into a greater improvement in air 14



## quality for our citizens. 15



## We understand that the rule would require 16



## the installation of 12 to 24 monitors of the 17



## perimeter, the collection of air samples at 18



## 2-week intervals, and that this raw data would be 19



## made available to the public. 20



## The DSCEJ, the Deep South Center for 21



## Environmental Justice, has conducted an air 22225



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## quality study funded by EPA focusing on air 1



## emissions during and immediately after the BP 2



## Deepwater Horizon explosion and oil spill 3



## entitled "Clearing the Air: An Analysis of Air 4



## Emissions from the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill." 5



## This study conducted in 2013 involved obtaining 6



## and analyzing publicly available air quality data 7



## associated with the spill. Stationary monitors, 8



## because of the methods used to collect samples, 9



## completely missed this event. I think that this 10



## is telling as we move forward. 11



## The Deep South Center strongly supports 12



## the elimination of exemptions from air pollution 13



## regulations during startup, shutdown, and 14



## malfunctions. A constant complaint from 15



## fence-line communities with which the Center has 16



## worked over the last 20 years was that incidence 17



## of continuous flaring and accidental releases 18



## occurred over weekend periods when LDEQ offices 19



## were closed. Even LDEQ hotline calls coming in 20



## over the weekend were generally not responded to 21



## until the following Monday or even Tuesday, by 22226



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## which time the evidence was gone. This has been 1



## our experience over the years working with the 2



## Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality, 3



## and we do not have much confidence in their 4



## ability to work more closely with us to protect 5



## our communities. 6



## States should be required to enforce the 7



## regulations when excess pollution occurs during 8



## any of these processes at an oil refinery. 9



## States should also be prohibited from issuing 10



## permit waivers which allow increased air 11



## pollution. Not closing the permit waiver 12



## loophole would only serve to dramatically reduce 13



## the practical effectiveness of the proposed rule. 14



## Finally, in this rule, EPA would not 15



## require any changes to oil refinery emissions or 16



## operations based on its assessment that cancer 17



## and non-cancer health risks from exposures are 18



## acceptable. Risk assessment is not an exact 19



## science. In fact, by some, it's called "voodoo 20



## science." Louisiana's cancer rate is 19 percent 21



## higher than the national average. Given the 22227



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## alarming statistics, we find the acceptable 1



## cancer risk from oil refinery pollution 2



## unacceptable. 3



## I will close at this point. We have 4



## brought a full contingency of people from 5



## Louisiana. We tried to divide up our comments, 6



## so we wouldn't take all the time on one issue. 7



## Thank you. 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Dr. Wright. 9



## Thank you for your testimony. 10



## Are there any questions for Mr. Zellinger 11



## or Dr. Wright? 12



## [No audible response.] 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, thank you both 14



## again. 15



## MR. ZELLINGER: Thank you. 16



## DR. WRIGHT: Thank you. 17



## MR. THOMPSON: So Katie Moore and Craig 18



## Beskid. 19



## And while they are setting in, next would 20



## be Marcelo Norsworthy and Makela Elvy. 21



## Good afternoon. 22228



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MS. MOORE: Hi. First, I'd like to thank 1



## you for this opportunity to comment. We really 2



## do appreciate it. My name is Katie Moore, and I 3



## work with the Louisiana Bucket Brigade. 4



## As Andy said, we are an environmental 5



## justice non-profit working in Louisiana with 6



## communities that live around oil refineries 7



## across the state. 8



## I would like to start by reiterating a 9



## point that several others have made and Dr. 10



## Wright just made that we live in a state where we 11



## can't rely on the state agency to adequately 12



## regulate and enforce refinery pollution. EPA 13



## Inspector General's report stated that Louisiana 14



## has the lowest enforcement activity level in 15



## Region 6, and that this was partly due to a, 16



## quote, culture image the state agency is expected 17



## to protect industry. That is from EPA's own 18



## report, and I think that that is powerful and 19



## indicative of what the state is in, in Louisiana. 20



## We rely in Louisiana and Texas on the 21



## EPA's regulations, so this rule is critically 22229



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## important for us, and we appreciate the rule, and 1



## we are really excited about it. 2



## I didn't grow up in a refinery town or 3



## even in a remember state, so when I moved to 4



## Louisiana, I was really shocked by the reality. 5



## I was shocked by how often you drive down the 6



## highway and see flares with smoke coming out of 7



## the stack. I was shocked by the rate of 8



## emissions and by how close these communities are 9



## to these facilities, often as close as 20 feet 10



## away. 11



## Most importantly, I had been continually 12



## shocked by the stories that I have heard from 13



## communities that we work with. One that sticks 14



## out in particular, a man living near ExxonMobil 15



## in Baton Rouge told me that he wears a mask every 16



## time that he goes outside in his yard. Whether 17



## it is to cut his grass or to play with his 18



## grandkids or to wash his car, every time that he 19



## is outside, he wears a mask to protect himself 20



## from this pollution. 21



## He also said that Exxon had an explosion 22230



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that rained toxic debris down on his yard, and 1



## that the facility sent out a cleanup crew in full 2



## hazmat suits while he and his wife were there 3



## unprotected. 4



## I know that we have heard a lot of people 5



## speak to the horrifying realities of living next 6



## to these facilities, but I think it is really 7



## important that we keep that in mind, because that 8



## is the goal of this rule, is to lessen that risk 9



## and to protect people's health. 10



## So we are going to submit a series of 11



## written comments, but all of our comments are 12



## based on the idea that we want for the regulation 13



## at the federal level to really have an impact on 14



## the ground. Certain parts of this rule will do 15



## that and go a long way in protecting communities. 16



## In particular, we believe that the 17



## startup, shutdown -- the elimination of the 18



## startup, shutdown, and malfunction loophole is 19



## critically important. Refineries in Louisiana 20



## routinely exploit this loophole to emit 21



## over-permitted levels. So we support that 22231



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## regulation. 1



## We also support updates on regulations to 2



## delay coking units, storage tanks, flares. All 3



## of these will translate into less emissions and 4



## into better health for communities. 5



## However, there are sections of the rule 6



## that need to go further. In particular, the 7



## regulations for fence-line monitoring must be 8



## strengthened. We believe really firmly that 9



## fence-line monitoring is one of the best ways 10



## that we can empower communities and protect 11



## community health. We know that communities often 12



## have very little information about what is going 13



## into the air. Many people have spoken about that 14



## today, and especially in the case of accidents 15



## and emergencies which happen frequently in 16



## Louisiana -- a refinery just had an explosion on 17



## Sunday -- it is critical that the communities and 18



## enforcement officials have information about what 19



## is in the air as it happens. 20



## We would ask that EPA would require a 21



## system that measures a range of hazardous air 22232



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pollutants, not just benzene. We ask that the 1



## monitoring system measures in real time, so that 2



## communities can have information as they need it. 3



## We ask this because asking communities to wait 6 4



## months between when a sample is taken and when 5



## they can access data on it is simply 6



## unacceptable. 7



## Communities are living in a state where 8



## they are in fear of these accidents, and so they 9



## need to have real-time data, and it needs to be 10



## widely and publicly available. 11



## Refineries don't have to operate this 12



## way. We have, as Andy said, six accidents a week 13



## at the 17 refineries across the state, and that 14



## doesn't have to be the case, but it is through 15



## sensible regulation and really making sure that 16



## all regulation will translate into real measured 17



## results for communities that we can move away 18



## from that. 19



## Thank you again. 20



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Moore. 21



## Mr. Beskid. 22233



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. BESKID: Good afternoon. 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 2



## MR. BESKID: My name is Craig Beskid, and 3



## that is C-r-a-i-g, B-e-s-k-i-d. I am Executive 4



## Director of the East Harris County Manufacturers 5



## Association. 6



## The East Harris County Manufacturers 7



## Association appreciates the opportunity to 8



## present comments on EPA's proposed refinery risk 9



## and technology rule. 10



## We represent 89 member companies, with 11



## 131 facilities, including 5 of the largest U.S. 12



## refineries that will be directly impacted by this 13



## rule. Our members conduct business in a manner 14



## that protects that environment as well as the 15



## health, safety, security of employees, 16



## contractors, and the communities in which we 17



## operate. Our members take that responsibility 18



## very seriously. 19



## Here are EHCMA's specific comments on the 20



## proposed rule now. 21



## First, EPA justifies the requirement for 22234



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## fence-line monitoring based on concern for the 1



## perceived uncertainty and emission factors for 2



## refinery emission source and the assumed lack of 3



## monitoring data in areas surrounding refineries. 4



## However, the Houston area has a long-term 5



## continuous record of air monitoring and history 6



## of air monitoring that complies with EPA 7



## protocols for measurements, location, and quality 8



## assurance. This monitoring network has collected 9



## a robust set of air quality measurements 10



## including benzene over its now-more-than-30-year 11



## history. 12



## Because of this 30-year history of 13



## measurement, a diverse set of meteorological 14



## conditions, economic conditions, emissions 15



## conditions, operating conditions, transportation, 16



## and population conditions are represented. 17



## Furthermore, because of the proposed 18



## monitoring method in the rule in the fence-line 19



## monitoring portion that EPA proposes, that 20



## proposal will be less effective in accomplishing 21



## what Houston's existing air monitoring network 22235



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## already does quite well, which is to measure 1



## representative air quality, yet the rule doesn't 2



## allow any flexibility to do anything other than 3



## what EPA prescribes for fence-line monitoring. 4



## Additionally, the proposed rule offers no 5



## alternative to continuing fence-line monitoring 6



## data, even if extensive data measurements show 7



## that benzene levels or other levels never even 8



## approached the action level. 9



## Therefore, Houston area refineries should 10



## be allowed to use existing air monitoring 11



## networks in lieu of the proposed fence-line 12



## monitoring. 13



## The measured data from this network has 14



## consistently shown annual average values that 15



## have been well below EPA's proposed action level. 16



## We believe that the measured data from this 17



## network speaks for itself. Average annual 18



## benzene measurements for the network have dropped 19



## 43 percent from the year 2006 to 2013, and these 20



## are values reported both by TECQ and Houston 21



## Regional Monitoring. 22236



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Next, flares and atmospheric relief 1



## valves are safety devices, which are used 2



## infrequently, but when they are used, they are 3



## designed to maximize safety and minimize harm to 4



## people and equipment. The proposed rule requires 5



## flares to meet flare tip velocity and visible 6



## emissions limits at all times when flaring, 7



## including events at the hydraulic limits of the 8



## flare design. This is concerning because flares 9



## at not designed to meet these limits under full 10



## hydraulic load but are designed to relieve 11



## pressure and maximize safety in cases of 12



## emergencies. The proposed requirements would 13



## make the usual intended operation of flares and 14



## safety devices a knowing and willful violation. 15



## In order to comply with these proposed flare 16



## requirements, industry will have to retrofit or 17



## construct additional flares and possibly boilers 18



## and added steam-assist capacity that can meet the 19



## proposed requirements. 20



## The new prohibition on safety relief 21



## valves releasing into the atmosphere will compel 22237



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## industry to route these atmospheric relief valves 1



## to flares. However, most current flare systems 2



## are not designed to handle the load from relief 3



## valves. It is likely that these relief valve 4



## requirements will result in construction of new 5



## flares and potential new emission sources when 6



## EPA is actually discouraging the use of flares 7



## and/or the elimination of flares. 8



## In closing, I just would like to 9



## reemphasize that for areas that have a robust air 10



## monitoring network like Houston, flexibility 11



## should be provided in the rule to be able to use 12



## historical and existing data in lieu of proposed 13



## fence-line monitoring systems, and for flares and 14



## atmospheric relief valves, they should be 15



## recognized as safety devices which are designed 16



## to maximize safety and minimize harm to people 17



## and equipment. Restricting the way that it can 18



## be operated may result in increased safety risk 19



## and increased emissions. 20



## EHCMA, East Harris County Manufacturers 21



## Association, appreciates the opportunity to 22238



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## provide these comments. We will provide detailed 1



## written comments by August 29th or the final 2



## closing date of the comment period. 3



## Thank you. 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Beskid and 5



## Ms. Moore. 6



## Are there any questions? 7



## [No audible response.] 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you both for 9



## your testimony. 10



## Our next speakers, again, are Marcelo 11



## Norsworthy and Makela Elvy. If you are in the 12



## audience, please come forward. 13



## [Pause.] 14



## MS. ELVY: Thank you. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: And following these two 16



## speakers will be Erica Moll and Cindy Spoon. 17



## Good afternoon, folks. Thanks for 18



## joining us. 19



## Marcelo Norsworthy, we will start with 20



## you. State and spell your name for the court 21



## reporter, and then begin your testimony, sir. 22239



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. NORSWORTHY: I am Marcelo Norsworthy. 1



## That is M-a-r-c-e-l-o. Last name is 2



## N-o-r-s-w-o-r-t-h-y. I am a Research Analyst 3



## with Environmental Defense Fund, EDF, a 4



## non-partisan environmental organization with over 5



## 750,000 members nationwide. 6



## For over two decades, EDF has been 7



## working to secure cleaner air and cleaner water 8



## for communities and families in Texas, and we 9



## strongly support the proposal in front of us 10



## today. 11



## The proposed rule for petroleum 12



## refineries is vitally important in improving the 13



## public health of communities, ensuring that all 14



## families are protected from hazardous air 15



## pollutants discharged from petrochemical 16



## refineries, and addressing the longstanding 17



## environmental justice burdens. 18



## On promoting healthy communities, oil 19



## refineries are a major source hazardous air 20



## pollutants that can cause lung disease, skin 21



## cancer, headaches, and immune system ailment, and 22240



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## other health issues as well as increase the risk 1



## of cancer. 2



## This proposal is critical to 3



## strengthening our nation’s protections against 4



## these serious ailments. Of particular importance 5



## is the proposal to add fence-line monitoring of 6



## benzene. The entire stakeholder community will 7



## benefit from a measure which improves 8



## understanding of how much of the cancer-causing 9



## compound is emitted at a facility. Neighbors 10



## especially have a strong and abiding right to 11



## know about the toxic air pollutant discharges and 12



## to ensure safeguards are adopted to protect human 13



## health. 14



## On protecting our communities and 15



## families, the concentration of hazardous air 16



## pollutants from industrial facilities in Texas 17



## has serious impacts on human health and the 18



## environment. 19



## For the approximately 60,000 residents of 20



## La Marque, Texas, and Texas City, Texas, three 21



## adjacent petroleum refineries have a total 22241



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## operating capacity of 760,000 barrels of crude 1



## oil per day. That represents more than 4 percent 2



## of domestic capacity that is handled in this 3



## small community. 4



## Further up the coast at three refineries 5



## near Port Arthur, Texas, the approximately 55,000 6



## residents live in a community that houses more 7



## than 1.1 million barrels of crude oil operating 8



## capacity per day. That represents nearly 6.5 9



## percent of capacity nationwide in this community. 10



## At the same time, The Texas City area 11



## refineries reported emitting 118,558 pounds of 12



## cancer-causing benzene in 2012, while the Port 13



## Arthur refineries reported emitting 44,093 pounds 14



## of benzene in the same year. 15



## Even Representative Olson noted that the 16



## Gulf has 48 percent of refining capacity 17



## nationwide; however, 48 percent of the population 18



## does not reside in the Gulf Coast. 19



## Fence-line communities across Texas and 20



## the nation, such as here in Galena Park, face the 21



## disadvantage of the health risks associated with 22242



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## refinery emissions. These clean air standards 1



## are essential to protect their health. 2



## Administrator McCarthy has made a 3



## steadfast commitment to pursuing EPA action on 4



## environmental justice. Strengthening and 5



## finalizing this refinery rule proposal is a 6



## tremendous opportunity to take action on that 7



## commitment and advance the Agency’s dedication to 8



## improve the health and environment of 9



## overburdened communities. 10



## EPA’s own demographic analysis conducted 11



## for the rulemaking shows that more than half of 12



## those most at risk from refinery pollution are 13



## racial and ethnic minorities. The analysis also 14



## notes that people of lower incomes are 15



## overrepresented in communities near refineries 16



## compared to the national average. 17



## Dr. Bullard mentioned earlier the 18



## refiners are not refineries are not randomly 19



## distributed, and we know from the analysis that 20



## there are communities that are overrepresented in 21



## terms of health risks. 22243



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The health risks associated with refinery 1



## pollution are an environmental injustice, and 2



## these communities have needed further 3



## environmental protections for many years. This 4



## proposal is an opportunity for EPA to seize the 5



## moment on environmental justice and afford 6



## fence-line families the health protections they 7



## deserve. 8



## We look forward to EPA finalizing strong 9



## health-protective standards in the coming months. 10



## EDF will be submitting further technical comments 11



## on the proposal, including sections of the 12



## proposal that should be strengthened. 13



## Thank you for the opportunity to testify 14



## here on the front lines of the environmental and 15



## public health concerns. 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Norsworthy. 17



## Thank you very much. 18



## MS. ELVY: Hello. My name is Makela 19



## Elvy, M-a-k-e-l-a, E-l-v-y, and I am an intern 20



## with Air Alliance Houston. Thank you for this 21



## opportunity to speak today. 22244



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## This summer, I have been doing some 1



## research to really understand the risks of living 2



## in EJ communities, and they are way too high, 3



## especially considering the demographics of places 4



## like Pasadena and Galena Park. For example, 5



## right here in Galena Park, 40 percent of the 6



## population is either under 5 or over 65, so we 7



## are talking about an extremely sensitive 8



## population that is inhaling these 20,000 tons of 9



## hazardous air pollutants. That is not 10



## acceptable. 11



## In Texas, 17.4 percent of the population 12



## of Texas is below the poverty line, but here in 13



## places like Pasadena, Baytown, and Galena Park, 14



## it is up to 20 percent. These communities are 15



## low-income communities of color that are burdened 16



## with multiple refineries and plants right next 17



## door to their schools. That is not acceptable. 18



## I took some census data and did some 19



## analysis to find out that within a half-mile 20



## radius of the ship channel right over there, 21



## there is 100,000 people affected by air 22245



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pollution, and about a quarter of them, a little 1



## over 25,000, are also affected from pollution 2



## coming from one or more of their local 3



## neighborhood refineries because they live within 4



## a half mile of those as well, and that is 5



## unacceptable. 6



## The proposed rule is good, and these 7



## modifications are needed, and I support them, but 8



## the truth is more can be done to protect these 9



## people, and more needs to be done to protect 10



## these people. You guys have the power to do 11



## that. 12



## I am not an expect, but a Senegalese 13



## conservationist once said, "In the end, we will 14



## only conserve what we love, and we will only love 15



## what we understand. How can you fully protect 16



## the lives of these people and measure their risks 17



## when they are not fully understood? I know that 18



## part of the rule requires fence-line monitoring, 19



## and I think these communities deserve real-time 20



## fence-line monitoring data because these people 21



## live in real time. They work in real time, and 22246



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## they breathe in real time. That way, a true 1



## analysis and maximum benefits can be achieved 2



## through this rule. They have a right to clean 3



## air, and they can't wait any longer. 4



## So thank you. 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Elvy. 6



## I do have one question for you. You 7



## mentioned a percentage earlier, and I missed it. 8



## Regarding the residents in Galena Park, under 5 9



## and over 65, what was that? 10



## MS. ELVY: Forty percent of the 11



## population -- 12



## MR. THOMPSON: Forty percent. Thank you. 13



## MS. ELVY: -- is under 5 or over 65. 14



## MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions 15



## from my colleagues? 16



## [No audible response.] 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both for your 18



## testimony. 19



## [Applause.] 20



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. Thank you 21



## for joining us. 22247



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Let's start with Erica Moll. 1



## MS. SPOON: That's Eric. 2



## MR. MOLL: Eric. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Eric? 4



## MR. MOLL: Yeah. 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. They have "Erica." 6



## All right. We'll strike that. 7



## So for the court reporter, could you 8



## state and spell your name, and then begin your 9



## testimony, sir. 10



## MR. MOLL: Yeah. Eric Moll, E-r-i-c, 11



## M-o-l-l. I live in the east end of Houston. I'm 12



## a journalist. I have a background in 13



## environmental science, and I want to start by 14



## thanking you all but only within a very narrow 15



## context. That's kind of the global context. I 16



## will start with a few facts about the oil 17



## industry. 18



## For example, in Nigeria, where the oil 19



## industry isn't curbed by something like EPA, they 20



## have spilled between 13 million and 100 million 21



## barrels over the last 50 years, and when the 22248



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## people were upset about that and tried to stop 1



## those excesses, the oil industry, Shell and 2



## Exxon, paid the government to massacre about 3



## 2,000 people and displace about 100,000 more. 4



## So, in that context, I thank you all for 5



## preventing that kind of [expletive removed] from 6



## happening here, but based on any other metric, 7



## you are doing a bad job. 8



## Here's some examples. From 2005 to 2007, 9



## the Baytown Refinery didn't monitor sulfur. I'm 10



## sure you know about that, didn't monitor sulfur 11



## for 2 years, and you fined them $6 million for 12



## that. They process $58 million of crude oil 13



## every day. You fine them one-tenth of 1 day for 14



## 2 years of not even measuring sulfur. What's up 15



## with that? Okay? Sorry. 16



## We've also got the Valero Refinery. Let 17



## me grab up these stats right here. In 1 year, 18



## 2009, the Valero plant in Manchester violated the 19



## Clean Air and Water Act 397 times. In just one 20



## of those events, they reached 12 percent of their 21



## annual limit for sulfur dioxide, which is 24,000 22249



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pounds of sulfur dioxide. If a private 1



## individual dumped 24,000 pounds of sulfur dioxide 2



## somewhere, I mean, that's like terrorism, right? 3



## These are terrorist corporations. The people who 4



## came here to represent them are representing 5



## terrorist corporations that kill people every day 6



## all around the world and here in the United 7



## States. 8



## In that same event, they released all 9



## that sulfur, 12 percent of the annual limit. 10



## That released 1,000 times the legal limit of 11



## particulate matter, and the thing about 12



## particulate matter that people don't really get 13



## is that it is just based on the size of the 14



## particles. You don't even know what it is. It 15



## is just particulate matter. It is something 16



## underneath a certain size limit. We don't even 17



## know what we are being poisoned with every day. 18



## So thank you for having these fence-line 19



## monitors that are going to be put in, but I don't 20



## really have much faith in the fact that they are 21



## actually going to do anything since they are only 22250



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## going to be monitoring benzene when there's 1



## dozens of other chemicals that are also killing 2



## people, and I don't really trust your standards 3



## because these chemicals are carcinogenic at any 4



## level, and then you set some standard and claim 5



## that it's okay. 6



## We have no actual firm understanding of 7



## cumulative effects of these chemicals. We have 8



## some studies for occupational exposure for an 9



## 8-hour day for a healthy adult. We don't 10



## [expletive removed] know what this stuff is doing 11



## to people every single day, and the pollution is 12



## going to get worse. 13



## Tar sands are pumped here. Tar sands 14



## refining produces more toxins. We don't know 15



## exactly how much because it's not well studied, 16



## but we already have 500,000 barrels per day 17



## coming through Keystone South right now to Port 18



## Arthur. They are going to finish the Houston 19



## lateral extension and become additional 20



## refineries too. We don't even know what we are 21



## being poisoned with, and you need to do a lot 22251



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## more. 1



## You need to understand that fence-line 2



## monitors are good. You need to have more of 3



## them, but the human beings in these communities 4



## are fence-line monitors. If people have cancer 5



## in a community that is a higher level than 6



## elsewhere, there's a problem, and your levels are 7



## too high. So I don't care what the numbers say. 8



## Your numbers are not important. Human life is 9



## important. Cancer is important. Asthma is 10



## important. And you need to walk through these 11



## communities, and you need to fund health surveys. 12



## You need to fund health care for all these 13



## people, and if you can't those cancer levels down 14



## to what they actually are for the rest of the 15



## country, what they should be -- it is not like 16



## one person getting cancer is okay. And if you 17



## can't get it down to those levels, you need to 18



## pay to relocate all these people. 19



## I know that you work within an incredibly 20



## inefficient bureaucracy, and you all waste 21



## incredible amounts of money every day, but maybe 22252



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## you could spend some of that to actually provide 1



## basic health care and human rights needs to the 2



## people who are actually being poisoned by the 3



## industry that you work for, more or less. 4



## [Applause and cheering.] 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 6



## testimony. 7



## Ms. Spoon. 8



## MS. SPOON: Okay. My name is Cindy 9



## Spoon, C-i-n-d-y, S-p-o-o-n. 10



## I will start by saying that I definitely 11



## support stronger regulations on refineries for 12



## fence-line communities. 13



## Right now, I am going to use my time that 14



## you all are really listening, really hearing what 15



## people have been saying all day long. 16



## So I want to ask you all. I know you all 17



## aren't going to answer, but what have you heard 18



## today? 19



## I know what I've heard today. I heard 20



## the woman who said that she traveled all the way 21



## down here from Detroit, that she's a cancer 22253



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## survivor, that eight members of her families have 1



## died from cancer, that she lives in a refinery 2



## community. And she is pleading with you all to 3



## please pass these regulations. 4



## I heard someone from the Steelworkers 5



## Union representing workers in these refineries 6



## saying these regulations will support workers, 7



## that workers are on board with this, that they 8



## are the first affected by these carcinogens. 9



## This one is crazy. I heard people from 10



## the Houston refinery community saying that there 11



## are eight carcinogens in their air at any time. 12



## At any given time, there are up to eight 13



## carcinogens that they are breathing. I heard 14



## them say that living in Manchester along the 15



## refinery fence line, their kids are 56 percent 16



## more likely to get cancer than just 2 miles away. 17



## And I heard them say that there are 86 schools in 18



## Houston that are in the top 5 percent of the 19



## nation's most toxic schools. 20



## I heard someone from Houston say, "We are 21



## literally dying for you to help us." 22254



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I also heard that youth, that brave young 1



## woman that came up here from Louisiana, asking 2



## you all, questioning if her generation could look 3



## forward to a livable, breathable future. So she 4



## is relying on and depending on the EPA to pass 5



## these regulations. 6



## If you have hearings like this and you 7



## have people traveling and telling their stories 8



## and talking about their trauma and what it is 9



## like to live in these communities and we all walk 10



## away from this whole thing and you all end up 11



## siding with industry and not passing these 12



## regulations, it will be shameful. It will be 13



## disgusting, and it will be a slap in the face to 14



## all of those people, to everyone here. 15



## I also heard -- he is not here anymore. 16



## I can see that he left, but some joker in this 17



## audience say that Houston is already in 18



## compliance with EPA standards. Now, you all must 19



## know that that is just a joke, that Houston has 20



## never, not one single day, ever been in 21



## compliance with the EPA clean air standards. 22255



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## That's not true. 1



## Yeah. I think that if you do not pass 2



## these regulations, you will be upholding systemic 3



## racism. Most of these communities that live by 4



## these refineries are brown and black people, some 5



## undocumented people. 6



## I think community fence-line monitors are 7



## the bare minimum of what you must do. People 8



## have the right to know what's in their air and 9



## what they are being forced to breathe. 10



## As far as flaring goes, I think the EPA 11



## needs to set hard limits on flaring. 12



## I guess I would just close by saying we 13



## need the EPA to stand up for communities in 14



## places like Texas and Louisiana where our 15



## politicians are completely in the pocket of oil 16



## and gas, and that even right now, like I said, we 17



## are not in compliance with the standards they 18



## already have, so we are going to need you all to 19



## actually fight for people that live here, knowing 20



## that our state is not going to. 21



## That's all. 22256



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Thank you for 1



## your testimony. 2



## Before you go, let me just ask my 3



## colleagues if there any questions. 4



## [No audible response.] 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Again, thank you 6



## both for your testimony. Thank you very much. 7



## [Applause.] 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Our next speaker are 9



## Arturo Blanco and Hillary Corgey. 10



## [Pause.] 11



## MR. THOMPSON: And following these two 12



## speakers is Neil Carman and Ying T. Gao. 13



## Good afternoon. 14



## [Technical interruption.] 15



## MR. THOMPSON: Our apologies. Good 16



## afternoon. 17



## MR. BLANCO: Good afternoon. My name is 18



## Arturo Blanco, A-r-t-u-r-o, B-l-a-n-c-o. I am 19



## the Chief of the Bureau of Pollution Control and 20



## Prevention in the Houston Department of Health 21



## and Human Services. 22257



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I am here today on behalf of the National 1



## Association of Clean Air Agencies, or NACAA, of 2



## which I am a past president. NACAA members 3



## include 42 states, 116 local air pollution 4



## control agencies that partner with EPA to 5



## implement and enforce the Clean Air Act. I am 6



## pleased to have the opportunity to testify and to 7



## provide some initial reactions to EPA's recently 8



## proposed risk and technology review standards for 9



## the petroleum refinery sector. 10



## NACAA has long been concerned about 11



## emissions of hazardous air pollutants from the 12



## refineries. According to EPA, refinery emissions 13



## include benzene, 1,3-butadiene, naphthalene, and 14



## other compounds which are associated with a 15



## variety of adverse health effects, including 16



## cancer, neurological effects, blood disorders, 17



## damage to the liver, skin illnesses, the 18



## depression of the immune system, and other 19



## serious disorders. 20



## Additionally, because of their locations, 21



## many petroleum refineries pose special 22258



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## environmental justice concerns. NACCA believes 1



## these sources should be well controlled, and the 2



## public health should be afforded the maximum 3



## protection the law provides. 4



## In light of the serious public health 5



## concerns and because the current standards for 6



## these source categories are outdated, NACAA fully 7



## supports EPA's efforts to address emissions from 8



## petroleum refineries. We are pleased that EPA 9



## has proposed a rule that calls for additional 10



## measures for these sources, which include 11



## requirements related to fence-line monitoring, 12



## flaring, startup, shutdown, malfunction, storage 13



## tanks, and delayed coking units. 14



## During the comment period, NACAA will 15



## continue to review the proposed rule and submit 16



## more complete written comments by the deadline. 17



## However, based on our preliminary review, today I 18



## would like to raise issues for further 19



## consideration and offer some suggestions to 20



## ensure that the proposed rule is successful. 21



## A couple of points, fence-line monitoring 22259



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and risk assessment. On fence-line monitoring, 1



## EPA's proposal would require it specifically 2



## includes an annual average benzene concentration 3



## to be measured using 2-week passive samples 4



## placed at the refinery's perimeter. NACAA fully 5



## supports a fence-line monitoring requirement. 6



## However, our member agencies have concerns about 7



## the use of passive monitoring over a 2-week 8



## period rather than using real-time monitoring. 9



## For example, it could be difficult to 10



## determine when a spoke in emissions actually 11



## occurred, or worse, emission spikes may not be 12



## flagged at all if they are average within 2 13



## weeks' worth of data. Additionally, there would 14



## be a lifetime in the availability of the data to 15



## regulatory authorities and the public. We 16



## recommend EPA more thoroughly analyze the 17



## benefits and costs of real-time versus passive 18



## monitoring before issuing a final rule. 19



## NACAA urges EPA to opt for the strategy 20



## that provides the best information that is most 21



## accessible for the public, the regulators, and 22260



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## for the facilities themselves, and provide a 1



## means to approve alternative, equivalent 2



## fence-line monitoring. 3



## While NACAA supports a benzene national 4



## level, we have concerns about the actual level of 5



## 9 micrograms per cubic meter that EPA proposed. 6



## Benzene is a carcinogen associated with serious 7



## health effects. 8



## Houston conducted a study that concluded 9



## that average benzene concentrations and all 10



## monitors, including those in industrial areas 11



## near petroleum refineries, are considerably below 12



## the proposed actual level, even before the 13



## background adjustment. So NACAA members are 14



## concerned that the proposed actual level is too 15



## high and will not provide any significant health 16



## protection to the public. We encourage EPA to 17



## examine all available data and reconsider what 18



## the best actual level should be. 19



## On risk assessment, NACAA shares EPA's 20



## goal of protecting public health. However, the 21



## proposal states that using MACT allowable 22261



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## emissions, the estimated maximum individual 1



## lifetime cancer risks are up to 100 in 1 million, 2



## and that the risks are acceptable. We have 3



## serious concerns with this level of risk. 4



## Moreover, NACAA has repeatedly 5



## recommended improvements to EPA's risk assessment 6



## methodologies during numerous rulemakings. If 7



## conducted properly, an improved risk assessment 8



## could show that the risk are even higher than the 9



## already unacceptable levels EPA has estimated. 10



## We strongly recommend that EPA reevaluate 11



## the risks related to petroleum refinery emissions 12



## based on our recommended perimeters and ensure 13



## that the final rule adequately protects public 14



## health, consistent with the mandates of Section 15



## 112 of the Clean Air Act. 16



## I thank you for this opportunity to 17



## testify. As I stated earlier, these are NACAA's 18



## preliminary reactions, and the association will 19



## submit additional comments by the deadline. 20



## I am happy to answer any questions you 21



## have. 22262



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Blanco. 1



## Ms. Corgey. 2



## MS. CORGEY: My name is Hillary Corgey. 3



## H-i-l-l-a-r-y. Last name, C-o-r-g-e-y. I am a 4



## researcher at Public Citizen, and we will be 5



## submitting comments before the deadline period. 6



## A little bit about myself, I am a native 7



## Houstonian , grew up in Aldine. Although Aldine 8



## is far away from the Houston Ship Channel, it 9



## still has some of the worst air quality in 10



## Houston, with 2012 readings for PM2.5 above 11



## readings for Baytown, an area that is actually in 12



## the Ship Channel. 13



## Due to the poor air quality, I grew up 14



## with moderate to severe asthma. I frequently had 15



## to be rushed to the emergency room as a child, 16



## often every year. Some nights, I had to sleep 17



## sitting up, because when I laid down I felt like 18



## I was suffocating. I had to use an albuterol 19



## breathing machine every day, and the school 20



## wouldn’t let me carry my inhaler around, even 21



## though I often had asthma attacks on the 22263



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## playground. If I got sick, another child or a 1



## teacher had to go to the other side of the school 2



## and get the nurse, because the school said that 3



## the inhaler I used, it could be used to save my 4



## life, but it could be used as a recreational 5



## drug. 6



## When I was growing up, my family didn’t 7



## know why I had such severe problems with asthma, 8



## and it is a condition that I still have to do 9



## treatment for. I didn’t know for most of my life 10



## that it might be connected to the pollution 11



## coming from the Ship Channel. As I have done 12



## research on the pollution in the Houston area, I 13



## have found out that the chemicals being emitted 14



## from refineries are affecting the health of 15



## Houstonians far away from the Ship Channel. A 16



## huge chunk of the northern portion of Houston has 17



## high rates of respiratory disease. The reason 18



## for this might be because it is upwind from the 19



## Houston Ship Channel. 20



## Although we are pleased to see new rules 21



## emerge around refineries, a lot more needs to be 22264



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## done about the current situation. Last year the 1



## Healthy Ports Communities Coalition, or HPCC, did 2



## a survey of residents living in the Port of 3



## Houston area. Twenty-nine percent of residents 4



## from Pasadena self-reported that they had asthma 5



## or another respiratory disease, and 21 percent of 6



## respondents said they had a child in the 7



## household with asthma or another respiratory 8



## disease. Other studies confirm this high 9



## respiratory disease burden on the residents of 10



## northern and central Pasadena. 11



## There are three refineries that cause 12



## concern to community members in Pasadena, a city 13



## south of here that is host to over a hundred 14



## chemical plants and refineries. These refineries 15



## include Houston Refinery, Shell Deer Park, and 16



## Pasadena Refinery. These refineries have had 41 17



## upset events recorded by TCEQ since 2013 that 18



## have released more than 3.9 million pounds of 19



## toxic chemicals into the air of Pasadena 20



## residents. We have received preliminary data on 21



## how these events affect children in the area. In 22265



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## three Pasadena ISD schools near refineries -- the 1



## De Zavala Middle School, Kruse Elementary, and 2



## Pasadena High School -- we see a consistent trend 3



## of absences on the day of and day after upset 4



## events. Children are more prone to getting sick 5



## from chemical exposure, and this may lead them to 6



## miss school. We need to keep the students of 7



## Pasadena safe from toxic chemicals by 8



## strengthening current rules and reducing 9



## emissions. 10



## Earlier, you heard about the effect of 11



## 1,3-butadiene on cancer rates in the Ship 12



## Channel. I won't go over that, but it should be 13



## noted that there is no safe level of exposure of 14



## cancer-causing chemicals like 1,3-butadiene, and 15



## children are especially susceptible to these 16



## chemicals. 17



## The EPA must take corrective and timely 18



## action against violators that actually results in 19



## better processes and improves public health. For 20



## Pasadena Refinery, the amount of fines issued by 21



## the EPA for Clean Air Act violations within a 5- 22266



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## year period amounted to less than 30 seconds of 1



## profit for their parent company during fiscal 2



## year 2012. This is not an effective deterrent 3



## against polluting. 4



## Pasadena Refinery continues to be on an 5



## EPA watch list for high-priority violations that 6



## have gone on for years. The EPA needs to be more 7



## proactive when it comes to refineries that 8



## violate the law for years and damage public 9



## health. 10



## The amount of chemicals that have 11



## unstudied health impacts and are found from 12



## emissions in refineries in the Houston area is 13



## absolutely appalling. There are tens of 14



## thousands of chemicals of which little is known 15



## even though the study of them is mandated by 16



## federal law. The EPA’s own site lists health 17



## impacts of certain chemicals, and those have 18



## various gaps in knowledge. Even commonly found 19



## chemicals at refineries have unknown health 20



## impacts on children, fetal development, organs 21



## and systems in the human body, and no information 22267



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## on whether it causes cancer. Even less is known 1



## about when these chemicals are combined together 2



## in a toxic soup, and people are exposed to them 3



## on a short- or long-term basis. 4



## The EPA needs to do an up-to-date health 5



## risk and impact assessment of the cumulative 6



## effects of these refinery chemicals on 7



## communities and children. These people have a 8



## right to know. 9



## The EPA needs to mandate safer 10



## technologies and systems for refineries. Safer 11



## systems need to be required, as well as leak 12



## detection and repair requirements. Dangerous 13



## chemicals like hydrofluoric acid needs to be 14



## phased out or concentrations need to be lowered. 15



## According to a recently released report 16



## that analyzed vulnerability zones, Pasadena 17



## Refinery’s stockpile of hydrofluoric acid puts 18



## over 756,000 people living within 9.3 miles at 19



## risk should an accident occur. This means that 20



## people who go to a baseball game at Minute Maid 21



## Park in Downtown Houston, 9 miles away, can be 22268



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## put in danger. The 49,000 students that go to 1



## the University of Houston and Texas Southern 2



## University can be put in danger. 3



## I will wrap this up. 4



## Remember that as regulators, you have a 5



## duty to protect public health, and federal law 6



## mandates that you protect the health of 7



## underserved communities from polluting 8



## refineries. 9



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Corgey. 10



## Are there any questions for Mr. Blanco or 11



## Ms. Corgey? 12



## [No audible response.] 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both for your 14



## testimony. 15



## [Applause.] 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Hello again, and thank you 17



## for joining us. 18



## Mr. Carman? 19



## MR. CARMAN: My name is Neil Carman. I 20



## am the Clean Air Program Director for the Lone 21



## Star Chapter of the Sierra Club. My name is 22269



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## spelled N-e-i-l, C-a-r-m-a-n. 1



## I have been dealing with issues of 2



## refineries for over 34 years, 12 years as a state 3



## officially here in Texas, and 22 years with the 4



## Sierra Club. 5



## I am very concerned about the rulemaking 6



## that EPA proposed. For example, the flares, I 7



## believe that flares are open-tipped incinerators. 8



## They are not designed to adequately combust 9



## benzene and many of the aromatic hydrocarbons, 10



## especially when we see smoking from flares. The 11



## evidence of smoking is extensive, not just here 12



## in Houston but in Texas, Louisiana, many of the 13



## refineries I've visited through Sierra Club and 14



## when I was a state official, a long time ago. 15



## But anyway, flaring and smoking is a big problem. 16



## This rule says that visible emissions 17



## from the flares are acceptable up to so many 18



## minutes. There should be zero visible emissions 19



## from the flares. If the flares are smoking, they 20



## are emitting too much unburned waste gases, and 21



## when you see smoking, you can have the production 22270



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of aromatic hydrocarbons, from benzene to the 1



## polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, many human 2



## carcinogenic agents. But the fundamental problem 3



## with the flares is there is no real-time 4



## monitoring of any of the organic hazardous air 5



## pollutants, whether it's benzene or butadiene or 6



## the PAHs that are being emitted. 7



## So I think it's inexcusable that any 8



## visible emission should be allowed. If they were 9



## not allowed, then the industry would be forced to 10



## use things like flare gas recovery systems, which 11



## there are several refineries here in Houston and 12



## some in Port Arthur that are using this 13



## technology, but that could be very useful to 14



## prevent a lot of the flaring. 15



## Also, in consent decrees that the Sierra 16



## Club Environment Texas got with Shell Deer Park's 17



## refinery, with the Chevron Phillips Chemical 18



## plant, those plants agreed to do, in the consent 19



## decree, a flare mapping, which the state had 20



## required for over 10 years ago but had not been 21



## properly done and also flare minimization 22271



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## studies, and to reduce the emissions from upsets 1



## and the flaring. 2



## The companies did that compliance with a 3



## consent decree in an expeditious manner, less 4



## than the 5 years that we had agreed to, and it 5



## basically proves that these companies, these 6



## refineries have the engineering knowledge. They 7



## have the resources and the skills and money to 8



## reduce their upsets dramatically in a very rapid 9



## way. 10



## But this rule, I don't think goes far 11



## enough, and there is not real-time monitoring, 12



## either from the flares or along the fence lines, 13



## and I did a lot of monitoring myself when I 14



## worked for the state around large refineries. 15



## There is definitely issues about the benzene and 16



## all the organic HAPs, butadiene, and all the 17



## other chemicals that are being emitted, but yet 18



## there is no monitoring required. 19



## Even though there has been some 20



## monitoring here in the Houston area, that 21



## monitoring, in my view, is badly flawed. The 22272



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## monitoring either by the state or by industry is 1



## often sited at locations that might be too far 2



## away from those facilities to basically reduce 3



## the levels that might show up, the peak levels, 4



## and also, I think that the monitoring is flawed 5



## because there's a lot of averaging that's done. 6



## That's one of the concerns I have about 7



## this proposed MACT rule with the passive 8



## monitoring. I don't think this long-term 9



## averaging over several weeks -- in my experience 10



## of 12 years with the state, anytime you average 11



## over 30 minutes to an hour, you are going to see 12



## a dramatic reduction in the peak concentrations. 13



## I have a very dim view of any kind of 14



## monitoring that averages more than 30 minutes to 15



## an hour. So you want real-time data if you are 16



## going to get the best estimates of what might be 17



## occurring at the property line. 18



## Finally, I want to emphasize that we know 19



## from aerial flyovers here in the Houston Ship 20



## Channel over 10 years ago that all of these 21



## refineries and chemical plants were vastly 22273



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## under-reporting their estimated organic chemicals 1



## by a factor of 6 to 12 times, and that has been 2



## suspected for years, even though their TRI 3



## numbers were declining, but those were aerial 4



## flyovers as part of the Texas air quality ozone 5



## studies along the Houston Ship Channel. They 6



## didn't stop at Houston. They went to 7



## Beaumont-Port Arthur. They went to Corpus 8



## Christi, Texas City. Everywhere they went with 9



## those flyovers, they found vast underreporting, 10



## and it is easy to do if there's no real-time 11



## monitoring of benzene and these organic HAP 12



## pollutants, because the refineries, the chemical 13



## industry is not required to do it. 14



## They need to be required to do it, and 15



## that's what needs to be in this rule, is 16



## real-time monitoring on the flares and also 17



## fence-line monitoring. 18



## Thank you. 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 20



## State your name, and spell it for the 21



## court reporter. Then you can give your 22274



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## testimony. 1



## MR. GAO: Good afternoon, everybody. My 2



## name is Ying Gao. First name, Ying, Y-i-n-g. 3



## Middle initial T. Last name, Gao, G-a-o. 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 5



## MR. GAO: I work for Camsco, C-a-m-s-c-o, 6



## as the Science Director, and the Camsco 7



## manufactures sorbent tubes for fence-line 8



## monitoring of benzene. We make our products here 9



## in Houston. 10



## Of course, we have business interest in 11



## the new regulation, but I am not here to talk 12



## about that today. For those who are interested 13



## in monitoring devices, I will be collecting 14



## business cards at the gate after this. But I am 15



## here to talk as a scientist and also as a 16



## resident in Houston. 17



## As a scientist, I think the choice of 18



## passive sampling sorbent tubes on fence line 19



## makes so much sense. It is reliable, economical, 20



## an scientifically sound. It uses no electricity 21



## during sampling, and it is easy to handle and 22275



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## shop. All of these merits have been recognized 1



## and utilized by other countries, especially 2



## countries in EU and in Asia. 3



## I understand that different monitoring 4



## methods or habits, pluses and the minuses, but at 5



## this moment, we are glad to see EPA's movement in 6



## favor of the passive sorbent tube monitoring. 7



## Now let me talk as a citizen in Houston. 8



## Two weeks ago, I took two guests to the Sam 9



## Houston Board Tour along the Ship Channel. The 10



## smell was so bad and so strong that it literally 11



## ruined the trip, and I had to comfort my guests 12



## by saying, "Well, it's only 2 hours. We will be 13



## okay." See, there are people working here 24 14



## hours a day, living here, but it makes me think 15



## what happens to those people who work on the site 16



## and live by the site. 17



## The Sam Houston Boat Tour is supposed to 18



## provide a sense of pride, but now it provides 19



## more of a sense of shame. 20



## I have personally traveled to Texas City 21



## to visit refineries. I don't need a scientific 22276



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## instrument to tell the pollution. My nose is 1



## more than adequate. 2



## Actually, I have friends who are oil 3



## engineers who quit their jobs just to move away 4



## from that area. We constantly hear that the 5



## population in Houston is booming, people are 6



## attracted by this oil and gas industry and the 7



## high-paid jobs, but we also have moving away 8



## because of the fear. We need to listen to those 9



## people. 10



## To wrap up, I hope that we do more 11



## monitoring on more compounds, in more industrial 12



## processes, and in more residential areas. How 13



## about the fracking sites? How about the Ship 14



## Channel? How about the Keystone Pipeline 15



## terminals? Just because we have big industry 16



## here doesn't mean we have to have big pollution. 17



## I hope we bring back our pride and grace 18



## the next time we take somebody to a Ship Channel 19



## Tour or through Texas City. 20



## Thank you. 21



## [Applause.] 22277



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Gao and Mr. 1



## Carman. 2



## I have no questions. Are there any 3



## questions? 4



## [No audible response.] 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Gentlemen, thank you both 6



## very much. 7



## Our next speakers are Sparsh Khandeshi 8



## and Ron S-e-i-f-e-r-t, Seifert. 9



## [Pause.] 10



## MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen. 11



## Mr. "Khandeshi." Is that correct? 12



## MR. KHANDESHI: That's correct. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. I would like to 14



## begin with you, if you will state and spell your 15



## name for the court reporter, and then begin with 16



## your testimony, sir. 17



## MR. KHANDESHI: Sure. My name is Sparsh 18



## Khandeshi. It's spelled S-p-a-r-s-h. Last name 19



## is Khandeshi, K-h-a-n-d-e-s-h-i. 20



## First, thank you all for coming out to 21



## Houston to hear from the community and advocates 22278



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## on the refinery rule. We appreciate all the hard 1



## work that EPA has put into this rule, and 2



## hopefully, it finalizes a very strong rule to 3



## protect the community. 4



## I want to draw, I guess, attention to 5



## four main points about the rule. First is I 6



## believe EPA's risk analysis underestimates 7



## exposure to toxic pollution and total risk. 8



## Second is EPA needs to prohibit routine flaring 9



## and all flaring full stop. Third, the fence-line 10



## monitoring proposal, while a good, positive first 11



## step, needs to be improved to protect the public 12



## health, and four, EPA needs to address the 13



## hydrogen cyanide emissions problem that EPA 14



## learned about through the ICR coming from fluid 15



## catalytic cracking units. 16



## To start, EPA's risk analysis is based on 17



## the ICR, Information Collection Request, that it 18



## conducted in 2010 and 2011. EPA required 19



## refineries to submit emissions based on an 20



## updated emissions protocol, but it is unclear to 21



## me -- and you can correct me if I am wrong -- 22279



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that EPA knows which emission factors exactly 1



## refineries used to report the emissions. In many 2



## cases, it may be that refineries relied on 3



## inaccurate emissions factors that underestimate 4



## emissions. 5



## One course, I believe, that emissions are 6



## significantly underestimated from are refinery 7



## heaters and boilers. The AP-42 emission factors 8



## and L&E emission factors assume that refineries 9



## burn natural gas, but that is not the case. The 10



## refinery fuel gas that these facilities burn have 11



## much higher levels of hazardous air pollutants in 12



## the gas than regular natural gas, and that could 13



## easily result in much higher emissions. 14



## Additionally, a prior study by the 15



## Environmental Integrity Project shows that even 16



## when refineries apply these emission factors, 17



## they don't apply them correctly and report 18



## emissions much lower than -- 19



## [Technical interruption.] 20



## MR. KHANDESHI: I'm sorry. 21



## -- much lower than what the emission 22280



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## factors would predict. 1



## The second source of underestimated 2



## emissions from refineries are tanks. A recent 3



## study from the South Coast Air Quality Management 4



## District found that emissions from refineries are 5



## severely underestimated, and they determined that 6



## the sources underestimation was tanks. Their 7



## final conclusion was that part of the reason for 8



## the underestimated emissions is poorly maintained 9



## and operated tanks, but also that the emission 10



## factors themselves do not predict emissions from 11



## properly functioning tanks accurately. 12



## Third, the ICR emissions inventory, 13



## emissions for flares, are significantly 14



## underestimated. Currently, flares are not 15



## monitored for flow, and when they are monitored 16



## for flow, it is not clear that the flow monitors 17



## are accurate. The emissions submitted are based 18



## on those flow monitors and other engineering 19



## estimates. 20



## While we appreciate EPA taking action now 21



## to improve monitoring of flares, the ICR does not 22281



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## have the benefit of that data, and therefore, EPA 1



## needs to take into account this uncertainty and 2



## adjust the missions accordingly. 3



## On to my second point about prohibiting 4



## routine flare. Flaring is when there is excess 5



## gas at a process unit and needs to be taken care 6



## of safely. Currently, refineries route that gas 7



## to a flare, but when a process unit is producing 8



## excess gas, that is an indication of improper 9



## design or practices. EPA knows that there are 10



## proven technologies in work practice standards to 11



## prevent this flaring either through flare gas 12



## recovery units and strict work practice 13



## standards. When flaring is absolutely necessary, 14



## EPA should take care of that through their 15



## enforcement discretion. 16



## On the third point, it is fence-line 17



## monitoring. While we appreciate EPA's innovative 18



## fence-line monitoring, it has not been designed 19



## to protect public health primarily. Instead, it 20



## has been designed to ensure that facilities are 21



## complying with current and the proposed 22282



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## standards. We believe that EPA needs to 1



## reconsider the purpose of the fence-line 2



## monitoring project or program and reformulate the 3



## program for public health. 4



## Second, the fence-line monitoring program 5



## allows facilities to subtract essentially the 6



## background concentration of benzene, but it is 7



## not clear that the way it is set up fully 8



## encapsulates what is background concentration and 9



## what is actually concentration from refinery. To 10



## be more specific, during the 2-week average that 11



## the passive sampler is out there, the refinery is 12



## allowed to subtract the lowest reading from the 13



## highest reading. During some of that time, the 14



## lowest reading may be picking up emissions from 15



## the refinery itself, and that would then be 16



## subtracted from the highest reading, thereby 17



## inflating the baseline or background levels of 18



## benzene. And EPA needs to correct this problem. 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Khandeshi, your final 20



## thoughts. Your time has expired, sir. 21



## MR. KHANDESHI: I guess the rest, I will 22283



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## put into the record through written comments, but 1



## I appreciate the time and the hard work that EPA 2



## has put into this rule. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 4



## MR. SEIFERT: Hi. 5



## MR. THOMPSON: Hi. 6



## MR. SEIFERT: My name is Ron, R-o-n, 7



## S-e-i-f-e-r-t. I organize a grassroots group 8



## called the Tar Sands Blockade. 9



## I will be brief. I won't take up all my 10



## time. I do really appreciate the things I have 11



## heard today from so many powerful voices about 12



## how this rule, and you all being here is very 13



## much rooted in community health, and I would also 14



## just like to suggest that there is another 15



## powerful group here that isn't getting names 16



## directly, and that is racism. 17



## The energy industry is systemically 18



## racist. What might get lost in these 19



## testimonies, given that it is just being written 20



## down, the folks that testify on behalf of 21



## industry are white man. The overwhelming 22284



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## majority of community voices you heard are people 1



## of color. This industry targets low-income 2



## working-class neighborhoods, predominantly 3



## communities of color to build these petrochemical 4



## plants. All over the country, you all and your 5



## colleagues that tour around, where are the 6



## refineries in upper class white neighborhoods? 7



## They don't exist, right? 8



## It is the refinery rule. Do it. It's 9



## mitigating damage. Great. Let's have it. It's 10



## not nearly enough. There's no defining language 11



## in it that refers to the patterns of racism and 12



## the racial justice issues that this needs to be 13



## focused on. 14



## I don't know necessarily where EPA folks 15



## like you all come from as far as your backgrounds 16



## and what your defining commitments are, but 17



## really, as important as defending the clean air 18



## and water are, if the EPA does not have as a 19



## defining commitment, the deconstruction of 20



## institutional racism and racial justice as its 21



## primary commitments, these rules are always going 22285



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## to be milk toast and are going to continue to 1



## disproportionately impact people of color that 2



## have borne the brunt of the worst parts of our 3



## society throughout history. This rule does not 4



## adequately address these issues and name them 5



## directly, and by not naming them, we only 6



## continue to allow perpetual systems of white 7



## supremacy, and racial divisions in this country 8



## perpetuate. 9



## I think that says enough. Cheers. 10



## [Laughter and applause.] 11



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 12



## testimony. 13



## Are there any questions from my 14



## colleagues? 15



## [No audible response.] 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Again, gentlemen, thank 17



## you both for your time and your testimony. 18



## Our next speakers are Katy Rowe and Chris 19



## Goetzman, and following these two speakers are 20



## going to be Perry Graham and Hilton Kelley. 21



## [Pause.] 22286



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Katy Rowe. 1



## MS. ROWE: Hi. 2



## MR. THOMPSON: Hi. 3



## MS. ROWE: My name is Katy Rowe, K-a-t-y, 4



## R-o-w-e. I am with the Texas Campaign for the 5



## Environment. 6



## First, I wanted to thank you all for 7



## having this hearing today and receiving the 8



## testimony from folks. Thank you for that. 9



## I am here to say when it comes to matters 10



## of public health, the just and moral thing for 11



## the EPA to do is to protect people over corporate 12



## profit. It is unjust and unmoral to continue to 13



## allow the health of people living near refineries 14



## to be considered collateral damage for the way 15



## the multi-billion-dollar companies do business. 16



## The people of Houston have long been 17



## overburdened by the toxic industry emissions, as 18



## you've heard time and time again today. 19



## I am here to support the stronger 20



## responsibilities that EPA has proposed, and I 21



## also urge you to take them further to ensure the 22287



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## protection of the people that live near these 1



## communities. 2



## You must close the loopholes that allow 3



## the refineries to release as much pollution as 4



## they want, with little to no accountability. You 5



## have to end non-emergency gas flaring, actually 6



## monitor emissions in fence-line communities, and 7



## alert them when they are in danger in real time. 8



## And you must take into account the people in the 9



## communities when deciding on and enforcing 10



## regulations on refineries and weigh that higher 11



## than the profits of the polluting industries. 12



## Thank you. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Rowe. 14



## MR. GOETZMAN: Hi. My name is Christ 15



## Goetzman. It's C-h-r-i-s; Goetzman, 16



## G-o-e-t-z-m-a-n. 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 18



## MR. GOETZMAN: So what I wanted to really 19



## comment on is that a lot has been talked about 20



## today in regards to the health costs of petroleum 21



## refineries in the area, and that's a really 22288



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## important interpretation of these new regulatory 1



## measures, namely how they protect the people in 2



## the area. 3



## But another thing that we could comment 4



## on that's not really being commented on -- and I 5



## hate when these discussions devolve into this. 6



## The most important thing is the health outcomes. 7



## But another thing that we can think about 8



## is the way that we subsidized fossil fuel 9



## industries in America right now, there's numerous 10



## direct financial mechanisms that have this 11



## effect. There's other things that are less 12



## commented on, though; namely, these sort of 13



## externalizing costs. So it's the people around 14



## the Valero Refinery in Manchester that make the 15



## Valero Refinery so successful in a bad way. 16



## That's how it works. 17



## Right now, the context of this 18



## conversation is that there is a great burgeoning 19



## industry waiting in the wings right now in 20



## America to take control of energy needs; namely, 21



## renewable resources. Renewable energy, solar, 22289



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## wind. A lot of experts have wondered why they 1



## are not more successful and why right now they 2



## are kind of a side show. A lot of the talk has 3



## been about the subsidies that the fossil fuel 4



## industry receives both direct and through these 5



## externalities. 6



## So the point is any attempt to connect 7



## the externalities of these companies with their 8



## actual profits, the market doesn't do it. It is 9



## a market failure. It is a step towards the right 10



## direction. It makes renewables much more 11



## competitive and makes our economy more diverse. 12



## It is really the future of the world, as many 13



## experts speculate. 14



## So when I hear that it's a bunch of 15



## values-oriented people against an economic 16



## industry and that's the argument, that's not 17



## really true. We highlight the human cost of 18



## these things, but we shouldn't forget that job 19



## creation can be a real outcome out of this. The 20



## renewable sector is being stifled by fossil fuels 21



## right now. Anything that makes fossil fuels 22290



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## reflect its actual cost is going to really lead 1



## to a lot of economic boom in the United States, 2



## and we should think about that more. 3



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 4



## testimony. 5



## Are there any questions? 6



## [No audible response.] 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for your 8



## time and your testimony. Thank you very much. 9



## [Applause.] 10



## MR. THOMPSON: Perry Graham and Hilton 11



## Kelley, if you are in the room, please come 12



## forward. 13



## [Pause.] 14



## MR. KELLEY: Sit here? 15



## MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. 16



## MR. KELLEY: I have a visual. 17



## MR. THOMPSON: Tilt it up just a little, 18



## the screen. That's perfect. That's perfect. 19



## That's perfect. Thank you. 20



## MR. KELLEY: As you are going to bear 21



## witness, these photos that you are going to be 22291



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## watching is from Port Arthur, Texas. 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Okay. And are you Graham 2



## or Kelley? 3



## MR. KELLEY: Excuse me? 4



## MR. THOMPSON: Last name? 5



## MR. KELLEY: Kelley. Last name, Kelley. 6



## First name, Hilton. And that's K-e-l-l-e-y. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 8



## MR. KELLEY: Is anybody else coming up? 9



## MR. THOMPSON: No, sir, not as of yet. 10



## So please begin your testimony. 11



## MR. KELLEY: Well, first of all, I'd like 12



## to say good evening. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Good evening. 14



## MR. KELLEY: Thank you all for this 15



## opportunity. 16



## It is always a pleasure to come before 17



## the Environmental Protection Agency and educate 18



## you on what's happening on the ground in the 19



## various communities around our nation when it 20



## comes to pollution. 21



## About 3 years ago, I served on a National 22292



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Environmental Justice Advisory Council for EPA, 1



## and at the present time, I am serving on the 2



## Regional Health Equity Council under the Office 3



## of Minority Health to look at ways in which we 4



## can eliminate health disparities in low-income 5



## people in color communities that are 6



## disproportionately exposed to dangerous chemicals 7



## and other toxins. 8



## Port Arthur, Texas, is located on the 9



## Gulf Coast. It is about 100 miles from here. It 10



## is located right on the Louisiana-Texas border, 11



## and Port Arthur, Texas is home to one of the 12



## largest oil refineries in the world, Motiva. 13



## Motiva produces 620,000 barrels of oil 14



## per day. They went from 285,000 barrels of oil, 15



## maybe about 2-1/2 years ago, and because of this 16



## expansion, our residents are being more exposed 17



## to dangerous chemicals like you have heard today. 18



## Benzene, 1,3-butadiene, both of these chemicals 19



## are known carcinogens. They are being exposed to 20



## high levels of sulfur dioxide, sulfuric acid, 21



## xylene, and other dangerous chemicals that are 22293



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## emitted off of the petroleum that is being 1



## processed around the clock. 2



## Motiva is the largest oil refinery in the 3



## Northern Hemisphere. Right next to Motiva, we 4



## have Valero. Valero is another major oil 5



## refinery. Then next to Valero, there is Chevron 6



## Chemical Plant. By the way, they just had a 7



## major emission event at their facility about 2 8



## weeks ago where one of their units or a pipeline 9



## to their ethylene unit blew up, and there was 10



## fire on the ground level. Then the flares went 11



## off, and the flares flared for more than 10 days. 12



## The black soot and smoke and fire that you see 13



## here, this is what we dealt with, with Chevron 14



## Chemical for more than 10 days. 15



## Then to the east of our community, which 16



## is only 52,000 people strong, there is Total Oil 17



## Refinery in Port Arthur. Next to Total Oil 18



## Refinery, there is BASF Chemical Plant. Down the 19



## road from them, we have the Veolia Incineration 20



## Facility in which, by the way, they just received 21



## the Syrian waste, chemical weapons waste. Before 22294



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that happened, they tried to bring in VX nerve 1



## gas waste from Indiana. They were successful in 2



## doing that. The United States Army, we fought 3



## them on it, but it is very difficult to win 4



## against the U.S. Army. 5



## Then the same Veolia Incinerator Facility 6



## tried to bring in 20,000 tons of polychlorinated 7



## biphenyls, PCVs, from Mexico to incinerate in the 8



## City of Port Arthur. 9



## Then we have our Ship Channel where we 10



## have ships up and down the channel all day long 11



## spewing diesel. 12



## Now, one of the reasons why I am kind of 13



## educating you guys on the number of industries we 14



## have in our communities, because there is a 15



## disproportionate number of industries located in 16



## Port Arthur, Texas. Port Arthur, Texas, is only 17



## about maybe 3 miles long and about a mile and a 18



## quarter wide, and we are sort of horseshoed in, 19



## and the open end, that's where our back is up 20



## against the Ship Channel. On a daily basis, we 21



## are smelling various odors and different types of 22295



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## scents coming from our refineries or the chemical 1



## plant or maybe even the ship channel. 2



## We have one out of every five households 3



## that has a child or someone in it that has to use 4



## a nebulizer to breathe. We have to take 5



## breathing treatments, our kids, before they go to 6



## bed and when they wake up in the morning to 7



## remove the mucus from their sinuses. I kid you 8



## not. 9



## Lisa Jackson has visited our community. 10



## We fought to get a health clinic on the west side 11



## of Port Arthur, and we were victorious in doing 12



## so because of fine money that was imposed against 13



## one of the local refineries. The EPA worked with 14



## us on making this happen. We are very excited 15



## about that. We are appreciative of that. 16



## But it's one thing to have a clinic in 17



## your community, but yet you are still in the same 18



## danger and being pre-exposed every day. What 19



## good does the clinic do when you put the child, 20



## when you put the people right back in the same 21



## toxic conditions over and over and over again, 22296



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and then they go to the clinic and take medicine 1



## that is not going to work because they are 2



## constantly being exposed? 3



## There are technologies out there which 4



## can help to eliminate a lot of the health 5



## disparities that are plaguing our communities not 6



## only in Port Arthur, Texas, but right here in 7



## Galena Park, in El Paso, Texas, where there are 8



## refineries there. Richmond, California; 9



## Philadelphia; and further up north in Birmingham, 10



## Michigan, all those areas are being pre-exposed 11



## to dangerous toxins. 12



## What we are saying is this. When you 13



## have the smoking gun and then you have people 14



## displaying the illnesses that correlate with what 15



## they are being exposed to, it's a no-brainer as 16



## to what needs to be done. 17



## I have been fighting the environmental 18



## justice fight now for more than 14 years. I came 19



## up from the grassroots level with this. I never 20



## thought in a million years that I would be doing 21



## this sort of work. 22297



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I moved back to Port Arthur, Texas, from 1



## California. I am from Port Arthur. I moved to 2



## California. I joined the United States Navy. 3



## When I got out of the service, I decided to stay 4



## in California, but I went on to Port Arthur just 5



## to visit in 2000, and then I noticed that the air 6



## still smelled the same way from when I was a 7



## little kid. And my cousins would talk about the 8



## number of people that have died, and usually, we 9



## always anticipate that whenever someone dies, 10



## it's cancer-related. That's always the case. 11



## I just lost my first cousin's husband, 12



## who was a really good friend of mine. He just 13



## died 2-1/2 weeks ago. Cancer. And we watched 14



## it. It was a slow death. Hospice came to the 15



## house. He was still walking around, and they 16



## said there was nothing else they could do for 17



## him, so they sent him home. So he is sitting 18



## there watching television. We're laughing. 19



## We're having fun. Two days later, my cousin 20



## called me up and said, "You guys need to come and 21



## pay your respects. He's not going to make it 22298



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## through the night." Well, he made it through the 1



## night, but he died like 7:30 in the morning. He 2



## was gone, and he was only 58, 59 years old. 3



## Paula Dodd. You guys don't know who I've 4



## mentioned, but Paula Dodd, there was a story on 5



## Al Jazeera America about 2 months ago, and the 6



## story depicted a family in Port Arthur, Texas, 7



## whom I hooked up this news reporter with, and her 8



## name was Paula Dodd. Paula Dodd lost her 9



## daughter to cancer, and Paula Dodd is my age. I 10



## am 53 now. If she was alive today, she would be 11



## 53, going on 54. She lost her mother to cancer, 12



## and when she did the story for us, she told us 13



## about what had happened to her daughter. She 14



## herself was afflicted with cancer and never said 15



## a word about it. After that interview was done, 16



## I think it was about maybe 9, 10 months later. 17



## She passed away, as well. 18



## We know what we're being exposed to. We 19



## know the causes of the deaths, of the health 20



## conditions, but yet what are we going to do about 21



## it? All we are asking is to get these guys to 22299



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## obey the Clean Air Act laws, the laws that are 1



## presently on the books. Enough money, you can't 2



## pay enough money to put someone, loved one, in 3



## harm's way when it comes to dangerous toxins. 4



## They can never come back. Money doesn't pay for 5



## a person's life. All the fines in the world -- 6



## "Well, my cousin died." "Okay. Well, we will 7



## give you $100,000, $500,000." No. We want a 8



## safe, clean environment to live in, and we are 9



## asking the Environmental Protection Agency once 10



## again to do the right thing. Help us to help 11



## ourselves and to protect our families. 12



## Thank you. 13



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Kelley. 14



## Thank you very much. 15



## [Applause.] 16



## MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Kelley, just one 17



## moment. Let me see if my colleagues have any 18



## follow-up questions for you, sir. 19



## [No audible response.] 20



## MR. THOMPSON: So, again, thank you. 21



## MR. KELLEY: And thank you all for the 22300



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## opportunity. 1



## MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. 2



## [Applause.] 3



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 4



## invite Brian Butler and Paige Powell to please 5



## come forward. 6



## [Pause.] 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Beginning with you, Mr. 8



## Butler. Good afternoon. 9



## MR. BUTLER: Good afternoon. Thank you 10



## all for coming here to Galena Park. Again, my 11



## name is Brian Butler. I am with Air Alliance 12



## Houston as well as the Healthy Port Communities 13



## Coalition, and my role with Air Alliance and the 14



## Healthy Port Communities Coalition is community 15



## outreach, so you all can imagine my involvement, 16



## my interactions as it relates to the refinery 17



## rule and how it really impacts people. 18



## I guess before I say anything, I just 19



## want to thank you for being courageous enough to 20



## consider refinery rules of this sort, fence-line 21



## monitoring. I'm not naïve about what that means 22301



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and the challenges that it will present to you 1



## all. 2



## But in saying that, passive monitoring is 3



## not what people need. It's not. People need to 4



## know what they are being exposed to, when they 5



## are being exposed to it, so they can limit their 6



## exposure. 7



## In the long time that I worked in Galena 8



## Park and Pasadena and Manchester and Deer Park 9



## and Pleasantville, when you are talking about 10



## refineries, the Ship Channel, the train and truck 11



## traffic, all these things are connected. 12



## I heard someone earlier today say 13



## something about, "We want to know where it's 14



## coming from, if it's this refinery." I think it 15



## is someone from the industry that mentioned 16



## something along the lines of, "Well, it's not 17



## from us. It's from them." We want something 18



## that tells us that. For folks in the community, 19



## it doesn't make a difference where it comes from, 20



## and that's my perspective, and that's what I am 21



## impacted by. 22302



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## There is a doctor who shared a story with 1



## some of us about a young girl. She is about 5 2



## years old, lives near one of the refineries, not 3



## too far, and she takes a host of medications. 4



## When you see pictures of her, she's always riding 5



## her bike, but it's always indoors when she's 6



## riding her bike. Some of the medicine actually 7



## has adverse effects to her growth. It is going 8



## to stunt her growth, et cetera, et cetera. 9



## As Dr. Bullard so eloquently laid out 10



## before you guys about the social justice aspects 11



## of this, unfortunately, a lot of the folks who 12



## live along the fence line of refineries are 13



## low-income minorities, people who oftentimes 14



## don't have the political currency or the time or 15



## energy to really advocate for themselves, and so 16



## I, to a large extent, do that for them on a daily 17



## basis, keep them educated. 18



## Again, I am proud of the EPA for 19



## venturing into this territory of a rule, the 20



## fence line, one component of the rule being the 21



## fence-line monitoring, but it's not enough. We 22303



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## need live, active monitoring. We need to measure 1



## things beyond benzene. That is not the only 2



## thing that is causing health impacts, and 3



## ultimately, we need to make the fines and 4



## penalties of industry not adhering to the laws 5



## significant enough where it is a part of the 6



## bottom line, "Well, we are going to make X 7



## amount. We can take 10 percent off of that 8



## because of the fines we will have to pay." 9



## As a kid from California, I come to 10



## Texas, and the political climate here is scary 11



## sometimes, where the powers that be in the 12



## regulatory bodies that are supposed to be 13



## monitoring things are so industry-oriented, and 14



## at the end of the day, public health is at the 15



## core of all this. Young kids like Hennessee and 16



## grandparents that you will see here in Galena 17



## Park or Pasadena or Manchester, that's at the 18



## core of it. 19



## I will finish with this one analogy or 20



## this one idea that I have. It is far-fetched as 21



## lofty, but I just wonder what things will look 22304



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## like if the health of the surrounding communities 1



## of refineries were -- or I should say the bottom 2



## line or the profits that refineries make were 3



## connected to the health of the communities 4



## around, I wonder what that would actually look 5



## like. I just wonder what that would look like. 6



## Again, thank you for your time. 7



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Butler. 8



## Ms. Powell. 9



## MS. POWELL: Hi. My name is Paige 10



## Powell, P-a-i-g-e, P-o-w-e-l-l. I work with Air 11



## Alliance Houston. I am an Administrative 12



## Assistant there. 13



## I don't go out into the communities and 14



## see everybody or do the monitoring. I don't know 15



## all the facts, the numbers, but I do know my 16



## experience. I know why I work there. 17



## I've lived in Houston for 30 years. This 18



## is my home. I had asthma as a child, and now I'm 19



## a mother, and I'm concerned for the health of my 20



## daughter. 21



## I have been fortunate enough to not live 22305



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## in any of these sort of fence-line communities, 1



## but now that I'm trying to provide for my family 2



## as a single mom looking into buying a home, I 3



## can't afford to live in Montrose. I'm looking at 4



## places like Pasadena, and I cannot in good 5



## conscience move my child to that toxic town. I 6



## want to see, have a vision of Houston where all 7



## of the neighborhoods are like living in a home 8



## then and not be afraid for our health. 9



## Houston is the "petro metro," and we put 10



## all of our hopes in our economy on this petroleum 11



## industry. I want so much to be a part of that 12



## and to be proud of that, because it's what we've 13



## based our city on, and if we could just clean 14



## that up and make them more accountable, I really 15



## think this fence-line monitoring is a great way 16



## to go about that, but when we do see images of 17



## events, when we see all of this, like chronic 18



## toxicity and all of these cancerous gases being 19



## put out there, to really put those fines on them 20



## -- like the guy was saying they refine, one-tenth 21



## of one day's production, that is no deterrent to 22306



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## doing these things. They know what they're 1



## doing. They know that they are putting these 2



## things out there, and there is just not enough of 3



## a financial deterrent for them. It's like, 4



## "Well, okay. No, we can pay $6 million or $30 5



## million or whatever it is because we're going to 6



## make billions next year," and it's not even an 7



## issue. 8



## So we need to like really rein in all of 9



## these externalities and make them pay for it. 10



## Once we pollute our world, once we poison our 11



## children, there is no going back from that. We 12



## only have one world, and I don't know how if we 13



## destroy our planet, we will destroy ourselves. 14



## When we were talking about the 15



## accessibility of the information, I have been to 16



## the TCEQ website, and I have pulled some 17



## monitoring data before. And it's not easy to do, 18



## so if and when this actually does get available 19



## to citizens, let's make it user friendly. I 20



## don't know who is going to be on the technology 21



## side of that, but that really is important 22307



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## because knowledge without accessibility is none 1



## at all. 2



## Three of my grandparents have died from 3



## cancer. Everybody is, "Oh. Well, Anderson, we 4



## have the best cancer facility in the country." 5



## That's because we have the most cancer in the 6



## country, you know? If we could use those 7



## resources for renewables and if we weren't 8



## poisoning ourselves, we wouldn't have to create 9



## the solution, so let's just stop the problem in 10



## its tracks, and we know exactly where the problem 11



## is coming from, and you all are the ones to hold 12



## them accountable. 13



## So I please beg you to do so, and thank 14



## you for your time. 15



## MR. THOMPSON: And thank you for your 16



## time and your testimony. 17



## Are there any questions from the panel? 18



## [No audible response.] 19



## MR. THOMPSON: Again, sincerely, thank 20



## you both. 21



## [Applause.] 22308



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. THOMPSON: Our next speaker is going 1



## to be Sara Zarate, Z-a-r-a-t-e. 2



## MS. ZARATE: First of all, I want to 3



## thank you all for being here and being able to 4



## listen to us, and second of all, my name is Sara, 5



## S-a-r-a, Zarate, Z-a-r-a-t-e. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 7



## MS. ZARATE: I think I've been hearing 8



## some of these people talking right now. I'm 9



## going through a lot. I'm one of the persons that 10



## I really need you to hear out, because right now, 11



## I don't know what I have. They have put me 12



## through so many machines already, and I'm having 13



## to try to find somebody to help me pay for all 14



## those bills. Why? Who brought these companies? 15



## Who is supposed to be responsible for that? 16



## I've got my husband. He's a kidney 17



## patient. Do you know how many? I can count 18



## seven people on my street that has cancer and 19



## died. Am I going to be the next one? 20



## And why should I have to be paying for 21



## these bills? I need some help. I mean for them 22309



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## to be held responsible for our health. I am a 1



## housewife. He was my supporter. He had kidney 2



## failure. Somebody has to help him. Somebody has 3



## to attend him, and now me. When is anybody going 4



## to wake up and not hold us responsible for their 5



## doing? 6



## I can't count on my fingers how many 7



## machines they have put me through, and they can't 8



## give me an answer what I have. Why? Because 9



## they don't want to. Because it's going to be 10



## another person with either cancer, kidney, or 11



## something, and you all know it. 12



## Right now, I have my niece that lives one 13



## block from me, 8 years old for the same thing. 14



## She is in emergency room right now. They don't 15



## know if it's her kidneys. There's three people 16



## that I know of suffer from kidney, seven people 17



## cancer, and I need something. 18



## That's why I got out of bed and came over 19



## here to this meeting because you really need to 20



## hear, and we really need your help. Somebody 21



## somewhere in these companies have to pay for my 22310



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## medical bills, because I shouldn't be having to 1



## pay for those medical bills. Somebody has given 2



## them the -- being able to provide those companies 3



## here, so why should I have to pay for that? I 4



## think the company should be held responsible for 5



## all our health problems that are here. 6



## It is pretty sad when you turn around and 7



## you have your neighbor, and, oh, tomorrow, she's 8



## gone because it's cancer. You go two houses 9



## down; they're gone because of cancer. Come on. 10



## Okay, I can understand one person, but seven 11



## persons down my block? And then they can't find 12



## what I have yet? 13



## I'm having difficulty breathing. I'm 14



## having lots of things going on, and they can't 15



## give me an answer, but yet they want me to pay 16



## the bills. Who is going to help me there? That 17



## is why I made it very, very -- I've made myself 18



## strong. I have to get up, and I have to go to 19



## this meeting, and I have to let them know what I 20



## am going through. I am one of these persons that 21



## you're seeing right now that has that health 22311



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## problem, and he's one. 1



## So I hope you all really take into 2



## consideration, and I hope there is somewhere that 3



## somebody can open the doors and help me with all 4



## these bills that we can't afford. They are 5



## giving them the license to be able to work here, 6



## their factories, and they should be held 7



## responsible. 8



## I was the first one here before these 9



## companies. That's where it hurts. I was the 10



## first one here, and now, yeah, I could probably 11



## move, but who is going to give me the money to 12



## move to a better environment? Nobody is out 13



## there telling me, "You know what, you can go 14



## here. Will this help? You can go here, so we 15



## can remove you, so at least you could survive a 16



## little bit longer to take care of your husband." 17



## Thank you. Thank you, sir. 18



## MR. THOMPSON: Ms. Zarate, thank you 19



## also, and thank you and your husband for coming 20



## out today. We really appreciate it. 21



## MS. ZARATE: Well, you all really need to 22312



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## see the part of the people that are right here. 1



## I have 36 years living in this area. I paid all 2



## my taxes, never been late. I think I deserve 3



## something from these companies, and what I'm 4



## asking is they need to pay those bills that I 5



## shouldn't have to pay. 6



## MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, we thank you. 7



## MS. ZARATE: Thank you, sir. 8



## MR. THOMPSON: Yes, ma'am. 9



## [Applause.] 10



## MR. THOMPSON: At this time, we are going 11



## to take a recess. We currently do not have any 12



## speakers signed up to speak. So, as soon as 13



## another speaker signs up and wants to testify, we 14



## will reconvene. 15



## Thank you. 16



## [Recess taken from 3:15 to 4:34 p.m.] 17



## MS. LASSITER: Good afternoon. I am 18



## going to reconvene the hearing for a few minutes, 19



## since we do have some speakers who would like to 20



## testify. 21



## Welcome to the hearing. My name is Penny 22313



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Lassiter. I am the Group Leader for the Refining 1



## and Chemicals Group, and here with me on the 2



## panel today, we are all with the U.S. 3



## Environmental Protection Agency. 4



## I am out of the Air Quality Office in 5



## North Carolina, as is Brenda Shine, who is 6



## sitting next to me and who is the Technical Lead 7



## on the refinery rule. 8



## Also representing EPA from Region 6 is 9



## Ruben Casso here. 10



## Just real quickly, I am going to hit a 11



## few highlights before I ask our next speakers to 12



## come up. We did propose this rule on June 30th, 13



## and it is currently open for public comments. 14



## The comment period closes on August the 29th, and 15



## just so you'll know, we do have court reporters 16



## here today. So there will be transcripts of 17



## these meetings, and they will be entered into the 18



## public record. 19



## In addition, you may submit public 20



## comments in writing until August the 29th. The 21



## comments that you submit in writing will be given 22314



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the same weight as the comments that you present 1



## orally today. 2



## Just a few logistics. We are asking our 3



## speakers to please limit your testimony to 4



## approximately 5 minutes. If you need another 5



## minute or two, since we don't have anybody 6



## waiting at this point, that will be okay. But 7



## there will be a light up here that will help you 8



## keep track of your time. So when you see the 9



## light go from green to yellow, you will know that 10



## you have got a minute left. 11



## Also, we will be taking a break here for 12



## dinner from five until six and then reconvening 13



## after six, and we do have speakers signed up at 14



## that point. 15



## With that, I am going to ask our next 16



## speakers if they would please come to the table 17



## together. Mr. Frank Borrego and Ms. Janette 18



## Sexton. Thank you. 19



## [Pause.] 20



## MS. LASSITER: So, Mr. Borrego, if you 21



## would go first, please, and if you wouldn't mind 22315



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## for the benefit of our recorders behind you, if 1



## you would please spell your name. And if you are 2



## affiliated with a particular group, if you would 3



## let us know that, as well. 4



## MR. BORREGO: All right. My name is Fran 5



## Borrego. Frank, F-r-a-n-k. Borrego, 6



## B-o-r-r-e-g-o. I am a TOP member, but I am here 7



## on my own. I didn't coordinate anything with 8



## them. 9



## Go on? 10



## MS. LASSITER: Yes, please. 11



## MR. BORREGO: Well, I realize what I am 12



## about to discuss is not necessarily under the 13



## purview of EPA, but it does deal with a chemical 14



## plant, and I just wanted to convey my experience 15



## with this. 16



## Back in November of 2012, I started to 17



## experience -- it felt like a vibration. It 18



## didn't really have too much of an audio quality 19



## to it, but it was something I could feel in my 20



## ears. I go outside, and there is what sounds 21



## like a jet airplane, stationary, on the horizon 22316



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## where the chemical plants are. I live 2 miles 1



## away from the chemical plants in Pasadena. I 2



## live like 2 miles south of it, south of the 3



## source. 4



## At the time, I didn't think too much of 5



## it, but by the next day, it was starting to 6



## irritate me, so I called it in to the Pasadena 7



## Action Line. I reported it. I asked when it was 8



## going to stop. It was disturbing. 9



## Well, once I did that, I tried to let it 10



## go and just be in my home and bear with it. 11



## About a week and a half had gone by, and my 12



## hearing starts to develop a real sensitivity to 13



## it, and my ears start to ring. It had gotten to 14



## the point where I was being woken up out of my 15



## sleep. I was dizzy in my own house, dizzy and 16



## nauseous. I was in pain. I was experiencing 17



## actual ear pain. 18



## So this time, instead of just leaving it 19



## to the Action Line to find the source, I went out 20



## and found the source myself. It was air products 21



## at 225 and Red Bluff. I was standing at the gas 22317



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## station, far outside of their facility. It was 1



## what I know now as their hydrogen facility. It 2



## was a massive amount of vibration. I've never 3



## experienced vibration like that without actually 4



## being in contact with an object, and this 5



## facility must have been like three or four 6



## football fields away, 9- to 1,200 yards. 7



## So then I know the source. It sounded 8



## like a yet airplane when I was there, a massive 9



## amount of vibration. I go back home. I call the 10



## next day into the hotline, and I report it, tell 11



## them I am experiencing pain, my ears are ringing. 12



## I tell them the story, and that same afternoon, 13



## there is a change in sound. For the first time 14



## in the last week and a half, I am much more 15



## comfortable in my house. It had gone away. 16



## Basically, it had gone away. It was the first 17



## relief I had in a week and a half. 18



## So I'm very ecstatic that they've done 19



## something about it, but then the next day, the 20



## noise comes back, and that afternoon, I go to see 21



## what's going on. The noise is still there. 22318



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## There was a sound of air venting, and the air 1



## venting had gone away, but the rest of the 2



## mechanical sound and the vibration and just kind 3



## of an oscillating sound -- it sounded sort of 4



## like a horn, a low-tone horn -- was still there. 5



## So I go back, I report it again on 6



## Friday, and again, the noise goes away. In my 7



## home, I'm comfortable again for that night, and 8



## then the next morning, it's back. So it did come 9



## back. I went back to the plant. I noticed that 10



## their vibration had diminished more, and their 11



## noise had come down some. So I'm letting it go. 12



## Then I get a visit from Code Enforcement 13



## 6 days later from my initial reporting of it, 14



## Tuesday of the next week. She's there. She's 15



## asking me why I called. I'm like, "What do you 16



## mean why I called? You've been the plant. The 17



## plant has showed noticeable response to it." She 18



## tells me, "I don't know anything about that. Why 19



## did you call?" She was rude, and she seems 20



## irritated, and I just kind of went with it. I 21



## didn't want to agitate her more, and by the end 22319



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of the conversation, she seemed to be telling me 1



## it's just me. I told her, "No. I've talked to 2



## neighbors, they told me it was the compressor." 3



## Then she said, "Who do you work for?" and I found 4



## that a strange response. I go, "I don't work for 5



## anyone. My neighbor told me. I don't work for 6



## chemical plants, and my neighbor told me it was 7



## their compressors." She tells me, "Well, it 8



## doesn't matter because they don't fall within a 9



## noise ordinance, anyway." 10



## That's where it was left with that. I 11



## went into December, probably mid-December, and it 12



## was still bothering me really bad. So I wrote a 13



## detailed letter to the head of Code Enforcement, 14



## Sergeant Severs. He tells me -- well, actually, 15



## he doesn't respond at all. I sent it into him. 16



## He doesn't respond. 17



## Later on, I cc'd it to a Council person, 18



## and she contacted me then again in January to see 19



## if I was still having the issue. I told her yes, 20



## and I told her what it was like. I told her she 21



## could go to this gas station at the corner of 22320



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Strawberry and Harris, and if she thought it 1



## wasn't wrong, that would be it. But she went 2



## there, and she witnessed the noise. 3



## At this point, it's already -- that's 4



## probably a mile away from the plant, and she 5



## experienced this, so she went directly to the 6



## plant and told them. 7



## Later on, I was at the PCAC meeting. I 8



## am being informed that that was the first time 9



## they were ever notified of my complaint was when 10



## the councilperson showed up there. So I tried 11



## dealing directly with the people from this plant, 12



## and they have done nothing but deny it and 13



## stalled. They have never acknowledged that they 14



## were ever contacted until the councilperson did. 15



## They have been in violation for 2 years. 16



## I ha e recorded it. I have witnesses. I have a 17



## spectrum analyzer on my tablet that can show 18



## their frequencies. They are not supposed to be 19



## in excess of 5 decibels over ambient, and they 20



## are in the neighborhoods. 21



## The plant hired their own noise expert to 22321



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## measure, because they wouldn't act on what I was 1



## telling them. When they hired their own noise 2



## expert and this took just until this last year 3



## for them to get the results together. The noise 4



## expert comes back with his results, and he is 5



## saying that they weren't in violation, and yet 6



## all the data the noise expert took was in an LEQ, 7



## which is averaging noise over time. The law, 8



## noise ordinance, calls for peak, instantaneous 9



## sound. So they constantly deny it. 10



## I suspected it was their compressor the 11



## whole time. This last summer, they had an OSHA 12



## reportable for a man working on their air 13



## compressor, and at the time, at the PCAC meeting, 14



## we were notified that they were doing maintenance 15



## on their compressor. Later, when we met with the 16



## noise expert, I inquired about that incident 17



## again, and they told me they were doing an 18



## overhaul on the compressor. I told them, well, 19



## maintenance and overhaul are two entirely 20



## different things. What happened? And then they 21



## tried to shift the blame to the worker, "Well, he 22322



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## came in drunk, and he got dehydrated." I go, 1



## "Why do you have a drunk man working for you?" 2



## that being that. 3



## Anyway, in my dealing with this 4



## particular chemical plant, they have been 5



## dishonest. They have never acknowledged 6



## anything. They have gone around to the council. 7



## One of the councilmen that sits there now is a 8



## former employee of this company, and they have, 9



## as an employee, an ex-Mayor of La Porte. They 10



## will send that Mayor to the councilmembers, 11



## telling them, "Hey, we don't have any issues, but 12



## we're fixing it." It has just gotten very 13



## strange, the way they talk about this. 14



## Right now, they are in pre-shutdown, and 15



## they are saying -- they don't acknowledge any 16



## issue, but they are saying they are going to shut 17



## down and repair it, however they can manage to 18



## say both things at the same time. 19



## From the city side, I have never -- from 20



## asking questions about this plant, I found out 21



## they have had unreported spills, and they have 22323



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## had injuries that have gone unreported with 1



## contractors. I found out about their nitric acid 2



## release back in 2010 that they released a cloud 3



## of nitric acid flowing over the 225, and the 4



## Pasadena police dispatcher was calling in. And 5



## even when she called in, she couldn't get them to 6



## acknowledge that this was an issue. 7



## MS. LASSITER: Excuse me. I'm sorry to 8



## interrupt you, but I do need to let Ms. Sexton 9



## speak. We are actually taking comments today 10



## specifically on the refinery rule, but -- 11



## MR. BORREGO: Well, my whole point is 12



## that it has been a horrible -- I mean, I 13



## understand that my situation doesn't deal with 14



## that specifically, but if they can get away with 15



## something, they will, and they need to be 16



## monitored. I don't believe that they are honest 17



## brokers or honest neighbors in what they do. 18



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. And if you would 19



## like, after we take a break, Mr. Casso is in our 20



## Dallas office here, and he may be able to provide 21



## you someone at the Federal EPA that you could 22324



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## talk to. 1



## MR. BORREGO: I understand. Thank you. 2



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 3



## Thank you, Ms. Sexton. If you would 4



## please just spell your name for our recorders, 5



## and if you're affiliated with someone, please 6



## tell us that before you begin. 7



## MS. SEXTON: All right. My name is 8



## Janette Sexton, and that's J-a-n-e-t-t-e, 9



## S-e-x-t-o-n. I'm not affiliated with anyone. 10



## I'm just a private citizen. I really won't take 11



## very much of your time. 12



## I wholly support the EPA's proposal to 13



## add or increase fence-line monitoring of these 14



## plants. We really do need this. It's a matter 15



## of social justice. 16



## I have lived in the Pasadena-Deer Park 17



## area for the last 32 years, and before I moved to 18



## this area, I didn't have any respiratory 19



## problems. I didn't have any allergies. Since 20



## living in this atmosphere and this environment -- 21



## I live probably a couple miles south of Highway 22325



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## 225; it's called "Refinery Row" -- I have 1



## developed allergies. I have to take allergy 2



## medication, and this is all very foreign to me, 3



## very new. 4



## At one time, I was a member of the 5



## Pasadena Citizens Advisory Council, and it became 6



## very frustrating to me, because each month, I 7



## would go in and the plants would tell about all 8



## of the wonderful community services that they 9



## were providing, and at the same time, they were 10



## not reporting honestly their emissions, their 11



## flares and things that are harmful to the 12



## citizens of this area. 13



## So I wholly support the increased 14



## regulation, and I hope that you are able to 15



## really put it in place and really make a 16



## difference in our lives. 17



## Thank you so much. 18



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 19



## MR. BORREGO: Thank you. 20



## MS. LASSITER: Before you leave, I would 21



## ask Ruben or Brenda, do you have any questions 22326



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## for our speakers? 1



## [No audible response.] 2



## MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 3



## MR. BORREGO: Can I say one more 4



## observation? It can be off the record. 5



## I've been going to the PCAC meetings, and 6



## yes, they are very pro-industry. They are 7



## conducted by industry. The lady that runs them 8



## is hired by industry to hold those meetings, and 9



## they have a CAROLINE system here, and they barely 10



## started logging their incidents on their website. 11



## On their website, they will log maybe two 12



## activities. It's not even a page long. I have 13



## been tracking the RSS feed from the CAROLINE, and 14



## they will have like four or five reportings each 15



## day, but they disappear off the website, so you 16



## don't know what's going on. 17



## In the last month, there could have been 18



## 50. I think I saw something like 70 RSS feeds 19



## from that website, but yet, if you go to the 20



## website and look at what's on there, it's only 21



## like two or three. So there is no real 22327



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## transparency with the public. 1



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. Thank you so 2



## much. 3



## [Recess taken from 4:52 to 6:03 p.m.] 4



## MS. LASSITER: Good evening. I am going 5



## to go ahead and reconvene the public hearing. My 6



## name is Penny Lassiter. I am the Group Leader 7



## for the Refining and Chemicals Group at the U.S. 8



## Environmental Protection Agency. 9



## Joining me this evening on the panel are 10



## Brenda Shine and Ruben Casso, also from EPA. 11



## This is the Public Hearing for the 12



## proposed refinery risk and technology review and 13



## resource performance standards. 14



## The EPA proposed these refinery rules on 15



## June 30th of this year, and the public comment 16



## period is open until August the 29th. 17



## Those presenting at today's hearing will 18



## be recorded. We have recorders here, and there 19



## will be a transcribe of everyone's testimony 20



## placed into the public record for this 21



## rulemaking. 22328



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## In addition, if you would like to submit 1



## public comments in writing, you may do so until 2



## the close of the comment period, which is August 3



## 29th. If you are interested in submitting 4



## written comments, please see one of the people at 5



## the desk in the lobby where you check in, and 6



## they can provide you with a paper of information 7



## on how to do that. 8



## With that, just real quickly, we are here 9



## to hear the comments that you have on the 10



## proposed rule. What you present orally today 11



## will be given the same weight as any written 12



## comments, and we will review and consider all of 13



## the comments that we receive when we finalize 14



## this rulemaking. 15



## In terms of logistics, I will call people 16



## in pairs. I will be asking you to come up and 17



## take a seat at the table. You will have 18



## approximately 5 minutes to present your 19



## testimony. We do have a light up here to help 20



## you keep track of your time. When you see the 21



## light go from green to yellow, you will know that 22329



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## you are at the 4-minute mark. 1



## With that, I am going to go ahead and 2



## call the first two people that we have to speak 3



## this evening. That is Ms. Rosario Martinez and 4



## Mr. Steve "Holverson" or "Halverson." 5



## [Pause.] 6



## MS. LASSITER: Are you Ms. Martinez? 7



## MS. MARTINEZ: Yes. 8



## MS. LASSITER: Please. 9



## And so that our reporters can get your 10



## name correctly, if you would please speak your 11



## name and spell it. If you are representing a 12



## group or if you are a public citizen, if you will 13



## just let us know kind of who you are affiliated 14



## with, if anyone, that would be great. 15



## With that, I will ask Ms. Martinez if you 16



## would please begin. 17



## [Maria Rosario Martinez's comments were 18



## spoken via an interpreter.] 19



## MS. MARTINEZ: My name is Maria Rosario 20



## Martinez, and I represent Texas Organizing 21



## Project, TOP. Should I begin? 22330



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. CASSO: Yes. 1



## MS. MARTINEZ: I was a person that lived 2



## in the State of California. I was raised there 3



## half my life, and I had very good health. I had 4



## three children, that they were very healthy. 5



## Until the moment I thought I would -- I 6



## had a thought of improving our lives, and I 7



## thought of coming here to Texas to improve our 8



## lives and for them to be raised here and for them 9



## to be able to live here with a better life. So 10



## my life changed. The type of life was more 11



## labor. It was more like farmers for work. 12



## So the change was -- very quickly, I 13



## noticed the change as soon as we got here to 14



## Texas, the State of Texas. The climate was 15



## different, the pollution. The four children that 16



## I have, have lots of issues with allergies and 17



## issues with their skin. 18



## So I personally have lots of health 19



## issues. My heart, I've had three heart attacks. 20



## I have thyroid tumors on my throat. Serious 21



## allergies. Also, my vision. So also cholesterol 22331



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## issues with my skin, very sensitive, and a lot of 1



## problems with the breathing, also lots of 2



## itching. Also, I have asthma. I have 3



## bronchitis. I have issues. It's all regarding 4



## the contamination. 5



## I take lots of medication. I don't know 6



## what else to put into my body. Instead of 7



## improving, every day I have worsened more and 8



## more. The medication doesn't help totally, 100 9



## percent, because I breathe this air day and 10



## night. 11



## So I want Pasadena to be like California. 12



## I'm making a comparison, for it to have clean 13



## air, for there to be a moment so that -- so what 14



## you can do for me, you can do for many other 15



## people because there's lots of sick people. 16



## I was a volunteer at MD Anderson for 2 17



## years, and nobody can tell me that there are no 18



## other people that are suffering the same things 19



## that we are suffering here. Children, pregnant 20



## women, elderly, adolescents. Your heart breaks 21



## when you go in there. You come out crying. 22332



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## But the problem is not in the hospital. 1



## The problem is outside, out here where we live. 2



## So I want for you guys to listen, to pay 3



## attention, because every day, someone does with 4



## the same issues that I'm suffering. 5



## And I thank you so much for listening to 6



## me, but not only to me, to all the voices, to all 7



## of us. Thank you. 8



## [Applause.] 9



## MS. LASSITER: Mr. Halvorson. 10



## MR. HALVORSON: Hi. I am Steven 11



## Halvorson, S-t-e-v-e-n, H-a-l-v-o-r-s-o-n. I am 12



## a member of the Texas Organizing Project, and I 13



## am on the TOP Board. I also live in the Pasadena 14



## area. I've lived in Pasadena since 1998. I've 15



## been here 16 years. I've been in the area. I 16



## lived in Galveston beforehand. I moved here in 17



## 1990 to the area. 18



## I noticed my personal problem with health 19



## occurred about 2 years after my son was born. I 20



## got my first migraine, and I thought it was 21



## something seasonal or happening randomly. So I 22333



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## took a nap. The migraine went away. 1



## But as I got older, the migraines 2



## increased. I moved into Pasadena, and my 3



## allergies started to get bad. My wife actually 4



## grew up in Pasadena. She's 40 years old right 5



## now, and she's lived her whole life here. She's 6



## lived on allergy medications, and she's had 7



## migraines all her life, off and on, periodically. 8



## She takes Benadryl and over-the-counter allergy 9



## medications. Since I moved in there, she was 10



## giving me allergy medications, and it helped for 11



## a period of time. Over the years, though, those 12



## kind of wear off, and you have to change to a 13



## different medication. 14



## My migraines generally happen when we get 15



## wind shifts and changes. The predominant wind is 16



## coming from the south, off the Gulf. I don't 17



## generally get a migraine, because I am on the 18



## south side of the refineries, but when we get the 19



## north wind and it comes back on to the Pasadena 20



## side where I live, over by 225 and Scarborough 21



## Lane, in that area, then my migraines will kick 22334



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## in. 1



## Generally, it lasts for a day or two, and 2



## then if I get some rest, the migraine passes. 3



## Somehow, it equilibrates. 4



## I also get rashes and skin issues around 5



## my neck and things like that. That's just 6



## occurred recently. So something seems to be 7



## changing. 8



## One of the concerns I have in addition to 9



## health -- oh, also, the Bayshore Hospital is our 10



## only hospital in the area that's local. We have 11



## the Texas Medical Center. That's where I work. 12



## I work at Baylor College of Medicine, and they 13



## have a really great facility, but that's not 14



## where they are going to send you if an ambulance 15



## comes. For example, if a refinery has an issue 16



## or a spill, they are taking you to Bayshore 17



## first. 18



## I talked to a guy on the phone in the 19



## community, because we do some canvassing in the 20



## community, and he said that mostly Bayshore is 21



## always at capacity. If it's at capacity, how can 22335



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## it do anything if a refinery has an explosion or 1



## a spill? I think the next one is Baytown. They 2



## go to a hospital there. And if Baytown and 3



## Bayshore are full, then they will actually take 4



## you to the Texas Medical Center, which we have 5



## 42-plus medical institutions in that area. 6



## We have some pretty good care there, and 7



## I don't know why we can't get that care here in 8



## Pasadena or at least have some emergency response 9



## teams that are capable of taking you somewhere 10



## that's actually going to have beds available for 11



## people if they have a spill, if we have a 12



## release. 13



## The other issue when I was talking and 14



## canvassing with folks is they don't get the 15



## communications they used to get. We used to have 16



## a Thursday alarm from the plants, either Lyondell 17



## or one of the other corporations, Kinder Morgan. 18



## They would do testing. We hear alarms now, but 19



## we don't know what those alarms mean, where they 20



## are coming from. The CAROLINE reports are kind 21



## of vague. 22336



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The City of Pasadena decides when and if 1



## they are ever going to report to us. They have 2



## little lines you can subscribe to, but we don't 3



## really get reports. My wife actually gets 4



## reports from my hometown, Wichita Falls, Texas. 5



## We get more reports from the Nixle Report from 6



## Wichita Falls, Texas, which is out in the middle 7



## of Texas. They don't have a problem with 8



## reporting. They have a problem reporting here 9



## because they don't want to give information to 10



## the public that could be later called into 11



## question and brought to legal. 12



## The other concern I have is with the port 13



## expansion, Panamax, with the big cargo ships 14



## coming in. I have seen businesses popping up all 15



## over the place around North Pasadena. Where this 16



## used to be a thriving blue-collar community, that 17



## thriving blue-collar, middle-class community is 18



## turning Hispanic. That's fine. A lot of houses 19



## are being demolished and taken down, red-tagged, 20



## and when they do that, that makes opportunity for 21



## businesses to come in. 22337



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## They call our area in North Pasadena a 1



## "light industrial district," and what I think 2



## will happen in the future is as real estate 3



## becomes available, it will actually go down in 4



## price first. It will be blighted. The next step 5



## will be for them to take that green zone, because 6



## they say it's green spacing, and that becomes 7



## real estate banking. Then they can go ahead and 8



## clear off a whole neighborhood. Since we don't 9



## have zoning, we don't have neighborhood 10



## associations, and we've also attempted to have 11



## neighborhood associations on the Northside. 12



## The Mayor of Pasadena does matching money 13



## for people on the Southside that's more affluent. 14



## We don't, on the Northside, have that ability to 15



## get matching funds because our folks that live 16



## there don't have the income level to pay for 17



## homeowners' dues or homeowners' associations. 18



## We have attempted. My wife has the 19



## Sunset Terrace Neighborhood Association. We put 20



## it on the books. We tried to work with the City. 21



## The City has stalled and pushed us. We have 22338



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## members here in this audience here today that are 1



## trying to start up communities also on their side 2



## of town, and they are also being stalled. 3



## So if it's Northside Pasadena, we get 4



## stalled for our neighborhood association. So we 5



## can't improve our neighborhood. We can't get 6



## Code Enforcement out. We can't get cars that are 7



## parked in the dirt that are dripping oil from 8



## moving. We can't really discuss our issues with 9



## the City. When we do, the Mayor always shuts us 10



## down and treats us like little children. 11



## And many times -- I won't get up and 12



## speak. My wife does. I am very upset with him 13



## in the way he acts as a human being, and he's not 14



## very democratic. If he's not going to accept 15



## democracy as we know it and listen to the public, 16



## what's the point of speaking? 17



## So I like to come to places like this 18



## where we can have a panel and actually be 19



## listened to, because a lot of times, you don't 20



## get that in Pasadena. I feel like I'm going back 21



## into 1960s-something, when I was a little boy. 22339



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I lived in Selma, Alabama, for a while. 1



## I lived there in 1978, and it was pretty racist 2



## back then. I feel when I'm going to the City 3



## Council meeting here in Pasadena, I feel like I'm 4



## going back in time. I don't want to go back to 5



## those days, and I don't think we should have to 6



## go back to those days. We need to have 7



## transparency. 8



## The ports and refineries, we understand 9



## they need to make money. Also, we would like to 10



## have them hire our local people on the Northside. 11



## We have a lot of capable young people that are 12



## graduating from high school. They are going to 13



## need jobs. I said we'd like to have those folks 14



## have the preference for those jobs. Instead of 15



## getting somebody from the North, the United 16



## States, we have folks right here. So get the 17



## training, get the local folks trained, and the 18



## communities would thrive and be just like they 19



## were back in the '60s when blue-collar workers 20



## were working, the neighborhoods were thriving. 21



## That's what I'd like to see in the future. 22340



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Thanks for the opportunity. That's 1



## really about all I have to say. 2



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. Well, thank you. 3



## MR. HALVORSON: Okay. Thank you. 4



## MS. LASSITER: Appreciate it. 5



## [Applause.] 6



## MS. LASSITER: Next, I would like to call 7



## Ms. Patricia Gonzalez and Ms. Tiffany Hogue. I'd 8



## like to invite both of you to please come to the 9



## speakers table. 10



## I failed to say this earlier, but if you 11



## would both remain at the table until both of you 12



## complete your testimony, that would be great. 13



## I am going to ask Ms. Gonzalez if you 14



## will please go first. 15



## MS. GONZALEZ: I am Patricia Gonzalez. I 16



## am with the Texas Organizing Project. I am also 17



## a community activist. I sit on the Board of the 18



## Texas Organizing Project. I am also the 19



## President of the Pasadena Chapter for the Texas 20



## Organizing Project. I am a mother of two, and 21



## like me, we breathe the polluted air every day. 22341



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## These are my children. I have a 1



## 23-year-old and myself, and I have two 2



## 16-year-olds that have to -- they have been on 3



## breathing machines, and they have been on 4



## breathing medications. They each are on three 5



## different types of breathing medications. That 6



## is not fair to them. That's not a life that they 7



## should live, because not only on those three 8



## types of medicines, but they're also on allergy 9



## medications. That is not fair. 10



## I am on breathing medication, myself. I 11



## am also on a breathing machine from time to time 12



## because I have asthma attacks at times, depending 13



## -- like Mr. Halvorson says, depends which way the 14



## wind blows in Pasadena. I end up having to be on 15



## that machine too. 16



## I also now suffer from -- I went to my 17



## ear, nose, and throat doctor and got the bad news 18



## that now I have three nodules in my vocal chords, 19



## and that's why I no longer have a nice sweet 20



## voice anymore. I have a hoarse, horrible voice, 21



## and it affects my job. It affects the way I talk 22342



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## at my job. People think I'm a man when they hear 1



## me talking on the phone because I've got those 2



## three nodules. If I don't take them out, it 3



## could be cancerous. That's coming from 4



## pollution. That is coming from what I breathe in 5



## every day where I live. 6



## I used to live in Manchester. I was 7



## raised in Houston, off of Pecan Park, off of 45, 8



## and then from there, in my early 20s, moved to 9



## Manchester. And then from there, I moved -- I 10



## used to see green film on top of my cars and was 11



## wondering why do I get this green film all the 12



## time and why don't my plants grow. I know I am 13



## not very good. I don't have a green thumb, but, 14



## you know, hey, at least I try. 15



## I was pregnant at the time and was 16



## wondering why I was getting asthma and bronchitis 17



## all the time, and my doctor, my OB/GYN said, 18



## "It's where you live. You need to get out. 19



## You're near the refineries, aren't you?" and I 20



## said, "Yes." She goes, "You need to move." 21



## So I moved, and I moved further out, and 22343



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I moved into Pasadena off of Ritchie and Jackson, 1



## and I thought that was a pretty good distance. 2



## No, it wasn't. I was still getting sick, still 3



## having asthma attacks while I was pregnancy, and 4



## I'm having problems even talking now because I'm 5



## having a hard time breathing even when I talk. I 6



## thought that was far enough. 7



## I moved farther, farther out, and I moved 8



## to Garden and Central, and I thought that was far 9



## enough. Well, no, you come to figure out it's 10



## not far enough, because I have three nodules. 11



## I've lived there for 8 years now, and I'm still 12



## suffering from asthma. 13



## My children are suffering from asthma. 14



## They're in the band. They have to be out there 15



## breathing. They carry their inhalers in their 16



## pockets because they don't know when they are 17



## going to have an asthma attack while they are out 18



## there. That is not fair to both of my talented 19



## children that are excellent AP students that have 20



## to carry their inhaler in their pockets, because 21



## they don't know at any moment, they could be 22344



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## falling on the ground because they're going to 1



## have an asthma attack. That's not fair to them 2



## or any child that has to carry an inhaler while 3



## they are out there in the band or in sports when 4



## they want to help being fit. 5



## They talk about the obesity rate. Well, 6



## they want the children out there exercising. 7



## They want them out there participating in 8



## activities and being healthy. You've got the 9



## First Lady, Mrs. Obama, saying, "Let's get kids 10



## healthy. Let's get them outdoors. Let's get 11



## them moving." How when we live in a polluted 12



## area? 13



## You know, I live within that 25-mile 14



## radius. If there is an explosion -- when we were 15



## doing the surveys that I just got through 16



## recently doing within the last 2 or 3 weeks, when 17



## I would phone bank and I would ask the people 18



## about do you have asthma in your family, do you 19



## have cancer, what ailments do you have, they 20



## said, "Yes, I have this." They said yes to 21



## almost every question I asked that had breathing 22345



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## problems, the cancer. 1



## So, I mean, they had no way to evacuate 2



## from Pasadena. No one knew of any evacuation way 3



## to get out, none of them, and we have the 4



## municipal channel. The Mayor could easily tell 5



## us how to get out, out of that 25-mile radius if 6



## there is an explosion. He has yet to tell us how 7



## to get the [expletive removed] out of there. He 8



## doesn't even know how to protect the children 9



## when they are outside when the weather is bad, 10



## when it is cloudy and dusty. If you just wait 10 11



## minutes, those plumes go up. Those flares go up. 12



## The people don't even know what's happening to 13



## them. They don't even realize they are being 14



## poisoned by all the carcinogens that are being 15



## released in the air. They are oblivious to what 16



## is going on to their children. They don't 17



## realize, get indoors, because your children are 18



## getting nosebleeds. That's why their noses are 19



## bleeding. That's why their noses burn. That's 20



## why their eyes are burning. That's why their 21



## eyes are becoming red when they get home, and 22346



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## they got migraines, and they're sick, and they 1



## got sore throats, or their stomachs hurt and 2



## they're nauseous. 3



## The elderly can't breathe, and they got 4



## oxygen tanks that they got to carry. That is not 5



## fair. That's not a way of living. That's not a 6



## way of life. It's not fair that we should have 7



## to live that way. 8



## The refineries are pushing into our 9



## environment. They talk about us moving into the 10



## environment of the animals, but the refineries 11



## are moving into our environment of the people, 12



## where we live, where we are residing. So how is 13



## that fair? Think about it. Really think about 14



## what they are doing to us. They are pushing us 15



## out, even though they don't want to buy us out 16



## the right way. They don't want to give us fair 17



## market for their houses when they want to buy us 18



## out. Why not buy us out at fair market and not 19



## have to pay a monitoring at where we want to move 20



## to, to where we're safe? 21



## And put monitors all along 225. Let's be 22347



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## good stewards. Let's show. Let's be right. You 1



## want to say you're not polluting us? Okay, be 2



## right. Do the right thing. Be good stewards, 3



## and put monitors all along 225. Get an outside 4



## person, industry to say that they are not 5



## polluting us. We don't want the companies to 6



## tell us, to report that to us. We want an 7



## outside source to give us the reports to say, 8



## "Your community is not being polluted," and they 9



## are not giving us -- 10



## [Applause.] 11



## MS. GONZALEZ: And the carcinogens are 12



## not coming outside the fence line and that you're 13



## not breathing right, because you know what, in 14



## 2012, we won the fight that Valero was not able 15



## to get that tax rebate. Why? Because we went 16



## and fought and proved to them, "You are killing 17



## us. You are making us sick," and we won that 18



## fight. And we won it fair because we showed that 19



## they were killing us. 20



## So, you know what, we need an outside 21



## source to monitor those monitors along that fence 22348



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## line, and we want those readings on a monthly 1



## reading, every month from that outside source. 2



## We don't want the industry to have a hand on 3



## those reports. We want those monitors on 24/7. 4



## We want them going every day, because you know 5



## what, we don't trust the industry at all. 6



## [Applause.] 7



## MS. GONZALEZ: We need it fair. We need 8



## it right. We need the community to know that we 9



## are safe, and we need those alarm systems going 10



## all the time. We want to know why those alarms 11



## are going off. We don't want to know a month 12



## from now or 2 months from now that a spill went 13



## on and there were some carcinogens that were 14



## being released and then find out that all along 15



## 225, there were children that were absent and 16



## parents were being fined because their children 17



## didn't go to school, and the parents had to pay 18



## for those fines that those kids missed school 19



## because they were sick and nauseous the morning 20



## that they were supposed to go to school the next 21



## day, and they didn't know why. Why? Because 22349



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## they were oblivious that there was a toxic 1



## release of some sort the day before. That's not 2



## fair that a parent has to pay that fine because 3



## there was something that was being released and 4



## they didn't know what it was. That's not fair to 5



## that parent that they have to pay that fine. 6



## So let the companies pay that fine. Let 7



## them do that, because they need to know -- we 8



## need to know, the public needs to know when 9



## something is being released within minutes, like 10



## that fast. We don't need to know days or hours. 11



## We need to know immediately when something is 12



## being released. Immediately. Not hours or 13



## minutes. 14



## [Applause.] 15



## MS. GONZALEZ: It could be a small leak. 16



## I don't care if it's a teeny weeny, little trip. 17



## We need to know, because this affects the 18



## children, and then the kids get sick, and they 19



## can't go to school. And then the parents can't 20



## explain to the school, "My child had a headache 21



## or was nauseous, couldn't go," write the school a 22350



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## note. And there's only so many school notes you 1



## get, especially -- Pasadena High School has the 2



## highest dropout rate, and the refinery is right 3



## there, and the neighborhood is right there. 4



## So, come on, people, please do the right 5



## thing when you do these reports, and you have to 6



## make these industries do what they are supposed 7



## to do. Please do right by us when you come and 8



## do these reports. Don't fail us. Please don't 9



## fail us. We don't need you to -- 10



## TCEQ failed us. They said they were 11



## appointed by the Governor. The Governor does 12



## wrong. He should have gotten rid of TCEQ a long 13



## time ago because 7 years of waiting to get a 14



## report that Valero is doing wrong to us and 15



## polluting us, and we had to go fight and win, it 16



## was too [expletive removed] long. But we need to 17



## get rid of them. 18



## But you, you're the EPA. Come on. You 19



## can do right by us. You're at the point where 20



## you can make a difference for all these lives, 21



## these millions of lives, not just in Texas but 22351



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## all over the states. Please do not do wrong by 1



## us. We depend on you all to protect us. You are 2



## there in the position to protect us. Please do 3



## not let us down. 4



## MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 5



## MS. GONZALEZ: Thank you. 6



## [Applause.] 7



## MS. HOGUE: My name is Tiffany Hogue, and 8



## I work with the Texas Organizing Project. Ms. 9



## Gonzalez and Mr. Halvorson are some of our 10



## strongest leaders. 11



## First, the Texas Organizing Project is a 12



## community organization that organizes 13



## neighborhoods of low to moderate income, 14



## predominantly of color. So in terms of the 15



## overlap of these EPA rules, there's significant 16



## overlap. 17



## You have seen our community leaders have 18



## been fighting for environmental protection in 19



## Pasadena for a long time, and you also probably 20



## have realized that not every state is the same 21



## when it comes to environmental protection. And 22352



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Texas is severely lacking. It puts people in 1



## real harm's way and real risk. 2



## The two points that I really want to 3



## raise from the rules that you all have already 4



## set out, one, that you deem the health risk to be 5



## acceptable. 6



## I think you have heard testimony all day 7



## and certainly from Mr. Halvorson and Ms. Gonzalez 8



## and from Rosario earlier about the health risk is 9



## not acceptable, and how you calculate it, you are 10



## missing some key factors. You don't take into 11



## account the longevity of exposure. So when 12



## children are raised in a community and are 13



## constantly exposed to pollution, carcinogens, 14



## what's the lifelong effect of that? 15



## You don't look at asthma rates. Asthma 16



## rates and respiratory illness is a huge problem. 17



## You don't look at hospital visits. Those are all 18



## things that can show maybe not direct causation, 19



## but it paints a picture of a problem, 20



## particularly in Texas where we have an 21



## Environmental Protection Agency that doesn't do 22353



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## very well protecting the residents that live next 1



## to these refineries, industrial entities to begin 2



## with. 3



## The other thing is the intense need for 4



## fence-line monitoring. Ms. Gonzalez just 5



## mentioned many times the need for this. It is 6



## difficult to know how to keep your family safe 7



## when you don't know what's in the air. It's 8



## difficult to protect yourself. It's difficult to 9



## make decisions. It's difficult to get -- I mean, 10



## if you don't know what is happening and you don't 11



## know the impact to your family, if you don't know 12



## if you should shelter in place or if you should 13



## evacuate, it's a real problem. 14



## The Texas Organizing Project and our 15



## leaders really focus on how do we empower -- how 16



## do we educate and empower communities of low 17



## income and color to make the decisions to improve 18



## their lives. 19



## In Texas, I should say we're in the oil 20



## capital of the world right here. The oil 21



## industry has done, I would say, incredible 22354



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## things. It's an economic engine in this 1



## community -- or I should say in this region, but 2



## frankly, the benefits of that industry do not 3



## really -- you know, as Mr. Halvorson said, you 4



## don't see the benefits of that industry in the 5



## community around the fence line, in these 6



## fence-line communities, but you see all the 7



## negative health impacts. You see the higher 8



## rates of asthma. You see the higher rates of 9



## respiratory illness. 10



## The other thing is we are looking at a 11



## population that is again lower income, minority 12



## population. Majority are uninsured because they 13



## have jobs that are in different industries that 14



## don't provide health insurance. You have the 15



## lack of hospitals or clinics, which also was 16



## mentioned earlier. So you are taking a 17



## population that is already disadvantaged and you 18



## are putting additional risk and harm on to it. 19



## I also want to mention a couple of 20



## things. We did a study in conjunction with the 21



## Healthy Port Communities Coalition, which some of 22355



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## our different partner organizations have already 1



## spoken today, Air Alliance, TEJAS, Public 2



## Citizen. We did a study. We talked to about 300 3



## people in portside communities last year, and we 4



## found that compared to the average, there was 5



## twice as many. The rate was twice as high in 6



## asthma. The rate of cancer was twice as high if 7



## you compare with the regular population and the 8



## communities that we talk to. 9



## So it's an alarming statistic, but it's 10



## also what you all have heard all day, right? 11



## That health risk is not at an acceptable level. 12



## [Pause.] 13



## MS. HOGUE: I'm making sure I got all of 14



## my points. 15



## And just one final thing, because I see I 16



## am red now. EPA rules are particularly critical 17



## in Texas. We have an Attorney General who has 18



## sued you all 27 times, who fights tooth and nail 19



## to protect industry and not to protect residents 20



## in these communities. We have a Governor who 21



## appoints people to our Environmental Protection 22356



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Agency that don't do it and that stall or 1



## otherwise are sort of ineffective. 2



## So, in Texas, it is a very different 3



## reality than it was in California where you were 4



## a couple weeks ago or for the previous hearing. 5



## In Texas, the EPA rules are really all we have, 6



## which makes it so critical and so important, and 7



## that's why so many people showed up today, and 8



## that's why so many people are passionate about 9



## these rules have to go through, and not only go 10



## through, they need to be improved upon because 11



## they are sort of a starting place in the right 12



## direction. 13



## So thank you for your time, and thank you 14



## for being here all day with us. 15



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 16



## MS. SHINE: Thank you. 17



## [Applause.] 18



## MS. LASSITER: Before you leave, could 19



## you -- 20



## MS. HOGUE: A copy of the study? Sure. 21



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. Or just put it into 22357



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the public -- 1



## MS. HOGUE: Sure. Will do. Thank you. 2



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 3



## MS. SHINE: Thank you. 4



## [Pause.] 5



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. Next, I'd like to 6



## invite Ms. Juanita Torres and Ms. Manuela Garcia. 7



## So if you would please state your name 8



## and please spell it for our recorders. 9



## MS. TORRES: My name is Juanita Torres. 10



## It is J-u-a-n-i-t-a, T-o-r-r-e-s. I am here 11



## because of all these health issues that me and my 12



## family are dealing with. 13



## I have renal failure. I have a lot of 14



## problems with allergies, sinuses, and I guess the 15



## real reason why I came also is because my little 16



## cousin, she had to go to the hospital yesterday 17



## because she wasn't able to pee. That scared me, 18



## because she is 7 years old, and for her to have 19



## to go through what I go through every day is 20



## something I wouldn't want for her to go through. 21



## I don't know what caused it. I know that 22358



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## she has a lot of breathing problems also. She is 1



## only 7 years old. 2



## In the house where we are living now, we 3



## have -- we don't have a central unit. We have 4



## air conditioners in the window. We have had to 5



## replace those three or four times in the past 2 6



## years because of all the dust that all these 7



## 18-wheelers -- where we live at, there's an 8



## industrial road, and this company, they built 9



## there, and they have all these 18-wheelers that 10



## have dust and comes into our -- we live right 11



## behind it. I guess that causes -- ever since 12



## that started happening, they built there, we've 13



## had a lot of breathing problems, a lot of health 14



## issues. 15



## I have gone to the hospital so many 16



## times. I'm scared. I am on the transplant list, 17



## and I'm scared that when I do get a kidney, I'm 18



## scared that it's going to fail because of all 19



## this wind and climate and everything in the air. 20



## I was 21 when I got diagnosed with renal failure, 21



## so it changed my life completely. So I want an 22359



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## opportunity to be able to do things that I used 1



## to do or that I get left out because of having to 2



## go to dialysis or if I am going to get sick or 3



## the amount of fluid that I drink, if my blood 4



## pressure goes up or stuff like that, that I 5



## didn't have to go through before. 6



## My grandmother has issues with breathing 7



## problems. My aunt has problems with sinus 8



## problems every day. So it's a lot of problems 9



## with all these companies that are building every 10



## day in neighborhoods that all you would see was 11



## houses and kids playing outside and stuff like 12



## that, and now all you see is 18-wheelers passing 13



## by, and all you see is pipes and stuff like that 14



## in the neighborhood. There is nobody doing 15



## anything about it. 16



## We've had to complain to the City so many 17



## times about the company that built behind us. 18



## They said it was only supposed to be a small 19



## company, and now you see at five o'clock, four 20



## o'clock in the morning, 18-wheelers parked behind 21



## where we live making noise and stuff like that, 22360



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and all this air that they said they were 1



## supposed to water down, so no air, none of that 2



## dust, and none of that gets into the 3



## neighborhood. But they're not doing anything 4



## about that. We have complained so many times. 5



## Our neighbor, he's on the computer all 6



## the time. He's complained to the City so many 7



## times. The City don't do nothing about it. So I 8



## just see that there's more and more people 9



## getting sick in our neighborhood because of all 10



## this -- the dust, the wind, and all that, that's 11



## coming from these companies. 12



## That's it. 13



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. Thank you. 14



## DAUGHTER OF MS. GARCIA: Yes. 15



## MS. LASSITER: You're speaking for? 16



## DAUGHTER OF MS. GARCIA: For my mom. 17



## MS. LASSITER: Ms. Garcia. 18



## DAUGHTER OF MS. GARCIA: Yes. And she's 19



## having breathing issues too and itching. That's 20



## about the air in our community right there too, 21



## and let at night, it's even worser. 22361



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Our plants, they are like yellowish with 1



## dots, like black dots on the leaves. So that's 2



## telling me it's in the air, whatever is causing 3



## all these issues. And the reason why I brought 4



## them was so you all wouldn't think that it was 5



## just something that was made up. There's more 6



## people here, and hopefully, we all can get to the 7



## bottom of this, because it's very important. 8



## Because once it starts affecting children, I 9



## think we should make a step up. 10



## The children, they're our next 11



## generation, and if we want them to be healthy and 12



## be able to work, we need to give them an 13



## opportunity, not like my niece in a dialysis or 14



## cancer on a machine. 15



## Was there anything else you wanted to put 16



## on? 17



## She is unable to function half of the day 18



## sometimes. I believe what you all are doing 19



## today means a lot to all of us, all of us here. 20



## That's why we came, because we don't want it to 21



## just be put on the background. We want it to be 22362



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## told and helped and clear it up. Clear up our 1



## air. It's important. 2



## I think that's about it. 3



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 4



## [Applause.] 5



## MS. LASSITER: Next, I'd like to invite 6



## Ms. Cynthia Velasco and Ms. Clara Velasco. If 7



## you both would please come to the table. 8



## [Pause.] 9



## MS. LASSITER: Ms. Cynthia Velasco, if 10



## you would like to -- 11



## MS. (Clara) VELASCO: Clara. I am Clara. 12



## MS. LASSITER: You're Clara. Okay. 13



## MS. (Clara) VELASCO: My name is Clara 14



## Velasco. I live on Eastway in Galena Park. I 15



## have been living here for 24 years, and I have 16



## three children -- [speaking Spanish language]. 17



## [Clara Velasco's remarks spoken via 18



## interpreter.] 19



## MS. (Clara) VELASCO: Five years ago, she 20



## had cancer, breast cancer. The oncologist said 21



## that it was due to the environment. I suffer 22363



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## lots from sinus for the same reason, for the air, 1



## the dirty air that we breathe here. 2



## I'm concerned about my grandchildren. I 3



## want for them to -- for their environment to be 4



## clean, not dirty. Healthy. 5



## I'm also concerned about the other 6



## residents. I have a grandson who has asthma. 7



## Joshua as well, the older one, as well with 8



## asthma, skin problems. 9



## MS. (Cynthia) VELASCO: Well, I am here 10



## daughter-in-law. She is nervous right now, but 11



## my sister-in-laws and I have also suffered from 12



## losing a baby while in the womb, and I have also 13



## had cancer. I'm a survivor. So is my 14



## sister-in-law. She had breast. I had uterine. 15



## I'm just worried. Sometimes like we get 16



## up early in the morning or late afternoon, and it 17



## smells like rotted eggs out here. It's horrible. 18



## You can't even breathe it in. I tell the kids, 19



## "Run inside. Run inside," and if it's not rotted 20



## eggs, it smells like a gas leak. Nobody tells us 21



## anything. We don't hear no alarm saying, "Hey, 22364



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## this is okay. Don't be worried." But we know 1



## it's bad because, as soon as we breathe it in -- 2



## one time, it even woke me up. I was totally 3



## asleep, and we have air units, because our AC 4



## broke down. And it woke me up. It was so bad, I 5



## started choking on it. It was just really bad. 6



## And back in the day, it used to also wake 7



## us up when the chemical plants would turn on 8



## these loud booms. Like I don't know what they 9



## were releasing, but it would actually wake you 10



## up, because our windows would vibrate. It would 11



## go like varoom, varoom, varoom, and it's just 12



## horrible. We shouldn't have to go through this. 13



## I mean, I think they should do the right 14



## thing. Buy us out, so that we could relocate to 15



## a safer place, and I'm just worried about my kids 16



## and my grandkid. You know, it's scary, and we 17



## would like to be informed. 18



## Like they say, we don't need a 19



## month-to-month. We need daily, because this is 20



## going on daily. It's not going on 21



## month-to-month. We need to be updated daily, so 22365



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## we will know where to go for help or whatever. 1



## And it's getting to the point where you 2



## can't even go outside, because sometimes we get 3



## skin reactions. 4



## As you can see, I try to do some -- I 5



## love gardening, and all of a sudden, I just -- I 6



## never have had this problem before, but I don't 7



## have insurance, so I can't see a doctor. And I 8



## started getting a rash, and my neighbor gets it 9



## all over her legs. We're like, "What is it?" 10



## She goes, "I don't know. I've never gotten it 11



## before," but now we're starting to get it. God 12



## only knows what it is. We're just like 13



## oblivious, and that's what's scary, because we 14



## are oblivious to what we are breathing. We are 15



## oblivious of our skin problems, of our kids 16



## getting cancer, all these problems, and nobody 17



## tells us nothing. Everybody is hush-hush, and we 18



## want to know why. We need more information. 19



## It was funny, because a guy came knocking 20



## on our doors selling insurance, and this was, 21



## unfortunately, before I -- I had bought into it. 22366



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I was on it for a year or two, and I couldn't 1



## afford it anymore, so I canceled it. As soon as 2



## I canceled it, I went to the doctor because I 3



## kept on bleeding a lot. A lot. It wouldn't 4



## stop, and unfortunately, I found out I have 5



## cancer, and that's the thing. These people all 6



## around -- I could name five people right now that 7



## have cancer. 8



## And one of them is your friend, her 9



## husband. He just, you know, got cancer, just 10



## because. So that's what's scary. We need your 11



## help. Our kids need your all's help. 12



## That's all I got to say. 13



## MS. (Clara) VELASCO: Why didn't we know 14



## about this before? Why wasn't this published? 15



## MS. (Cynthia) VELASCO: I didn't find out 16



## until like -- what was it? Thirty minutes ago? 17



## I saw it on TV. I saw it on TV, and I was like, 18



## "We need to go down here and find out. We need 19



## to speak," and my husband is like, "I just got 20



## off of work. I just ate." I was like, "Look, if 21



## we do not speak who is going to be our voice?" 22367



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## And I called my mother-in-law. She 1



## didn't even know about this until like -- when 2



## was it? Fifteen minutes ago? 3



## MS. (Clara) VELASCO: Fifteen minutes. 4



## MS. (Cynthia) VELASCO: That is scary, 5



## guys. We need to be -- it's sad, because I tell 6



## you this. If there were signs up, this place, 7



## these doors would be open right now. 8



## I think, if you all can, reschedule it. 9



## Let us put up signs, and you will see. You won't 10



## even be able to close these doors. That's how 11



## bad it is. We need your help. 12



## Thank you so much. 13



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 14



## [Applause.] 15



## MS. LASSITER: Ms. Rosario Martinez. 16



## Ms. Martinez spoke earlier, but we are 17



## going to provide her a little extra time because 18



## she had to have an interpreter. 19



## If you would like to just continue your 20



## testimony. 21



## [Maria Rosario Martinez's comments were 22368



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## spoken via an interpreter.] 1



## MS. MARTINEZ: What I'm going to say, I 2



## didn't forget about it. I couldn't say it when I 3



## was here, present. 4



## So what I want to know is how can we 5



## solve, how can we stop. There's a big project 6



## that's coming to the Port of Houston. We are 7



## already living with a very serious health 8



## problem. If we accept the plan that's already in 9



## process with the Port of Houston, it's accepting 10



## more venom in our systems, in our bodies. 11



## So we are dying slowly. Slowly, little 12



## by little, we're dying, and the cause is of this 13



## sickness due to the contaminants of these 14



## refineries. So by accepting this Port of Houston 15



## project, it is really opening to so many 16



## contaminants coming in, because with that comes 17



## many, many projects. So the project continues, 18



## the people get sick, and then they are replaced 19



## by others. 20



## My family, seven members of my family 21



## have died due to cancer after living here. I 22369



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## cannot bear to see that being the issue with my 1



## children and my grandchildren. So I cannot see 2



## it with the other families, those living in 3



## Pasadena and Galena Park and Deer Park, all 4



## around. 5



## The projects with the refineries are 6



## million-dollar projects, but the price for life 7



## is priceless. With our issue, with our health 8



## issue, where can we go if we don't have health 9



## insurance that we can go heal ourselves 100 10



## percent? 11



## I know that I have serious issues, 12



## serious problems, but I do not have 100 percent 13



## coverage. So I cannot deal with my tumors and my 14



## gastrointestinal problems. 15



## I've been living here in Pasadena for 35 16



## years. It's too long living like this. Nothing 17



## has been resolved in terms of the contamination. 18



## The air, the water here in Pasadena, if I drink 19



## the water, I vomit. I cannot tolerate it. 20



## I am going to say this, even though it 21



## may not be related, but perhaps it is. It has 22370



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## been a month and I have had a leak in the gas 1



## line. I personally did not know that. My dog 2



## found it digging the ground, smelling the tube, 3



## the meter tube. It was God that saved us from 4



## that peril and also the dog. 5



## But when it was going on, I was not able 6



## to distinguish this gas. It was confused, mixed 7



## with the air. The air smells the same way. What 8



## are we breathing during our lifetime? Venom. 9



## Poison. 10



## [Applause.] 11



## MS. MARTINEZ: I would like for this to 12



## be resolved, all of it. If we could all do this 13



## work, because every representative in the White 14



## House is there because of our votes. We all have 15



## the right to live a healthy live and be able to 16



## live years. It's pitiful to see dying children. 17



## It is pitiful to see pregnant women 18



## losing their children, and they don't know why. 19



## It's due to the contamination. This is not 20



## generational. It does not run in families. This 21



## is due to the pollution because the children, 22371



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## there are children that are born without lips, 1



## without ears, with little hands missing fingers. 2



## That does not run genetically, but it does exist 3



## in the babies. 4



## So the air, the air pollution is 5



## damaging, not 40 percent, not 70 percent, not 30 6



## percent but 100 percent. I can confirm that, 7



## because I volunteer. I go to hospitals and 8



## volunteer, and I see it. I go help. I live with 9



## people, and they are suffering. It's due to the 10



## same reason that I am suffering, due to the 11



## pollution that we have all around us. 12



## And the refineries are millionaires, and 13



## we are dying. I lost a cousin of mine -- she was 14



## 34 years old -- with breast cancer. She left 15



## three children behind. My mother died, 99 years 16



## old, and she never had breast cancer. I have 17



## tumors on my throat, in my throat. 18



## And I feel the air. I just came now to 19



## Galena Park, and right now, I am experiencing in 20



## my throat, this bitter taste, but the same in 21



## Pasadena, but I take a medication that removes 22372



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that. 1



## My cousin, 55 years old, came here with 2



## his wife and his son, and he died at 55 with 3



## colon cancer. My aunt died at 70 years old with 4



## cancer in the stomach and on the throat in the 5



## same area, here at Galena Park. 6



## I think that Pasadena and Galena Park, we 7



## can all come together and struggle in the 8



## struggle, and we can all go and present our cause 9



## at the White House. I love life, and I also want 10



## someone else, others to live long lives, as well, 11



## and more especially, children. It's the 12



## generation that's coming into the future, and 13



## they should be able to live healthy. 14



## I think with your support, we can achieve 15



## what we are looking for, because you also seek 16



## our support. Both of us together, we are able to 17



## win this struggle. So we need to express our 18



## illnesses, so I don't know. I don't know where, 19



## so that the refineries can take their 20



## contamination, and I don't know where to take it. 21



## In 2013, I don't remember exactly the 22373



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## date. Something happened. That was a strong 1



## wind. It was in the morning. The two cars, my 2



## cars, were covered with like snow, but the snow 3



## was red, like red dust that covered the cars. We 4



## requested information. I personally did. I 5



## never got it. 6



## I never got the results of that, and it 7



## was not only my car. It was the entire block. 8



## MS. LASSITER: I need to ask you to wrap 9



## up your statement, because I do have another 10



## speaker, please. 11



## MS. MARTINEZ: Oh, I was wondering about 12



## the light. 13



## Nonetheless, thank you very much. I 14



## appreciate your time and the time that you have 15



## given me. 16



## [Applause.] 17



## MS. LASSITER: All right. Next, I would 18



## like to ask Mr. Juan Velasco, and I believe it's 19



## Mr. Banner Royal Stanley. If you both would 20



## please come to the table. 21



## Mr. Velasco. Yes, please. 22374



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. VELASCO: My name is Juan Velasco. 1



## That is J-u-a-n. Last name is Velasco, V as in 2



## Victor, e-l-a-s-c-o. 3



## First of all, I would like to thank you 4



## for having us. It was just a last-minute deal. 5



## We just found out. 6



## I would like to comment on this. I have 7



## been a resident of Galena Park since '78. I went 8



## to elementary here in MacArthur, Galena Park 9



## Middle School and also the high school, graduated 10



## in '91. 11



## Now, what I was telling them earlier, 12



## that living here, I mean being a young kid, I 13



## guess back in the days, you used to be able to 14



## sleep with the windows open and have a box fan 15



## blowing air in and stuff. I remember I was here 16



## and like flames, you know, you could see it. I 17



## didn't drive. I was just a young kid, but I know 18



## you could see the flames burning all the time in 19



## the background. At night, you would always year 20



## that varoom, varoom, you know, the flames blowing 21



## and stuff. Of course, you're just a young kid. 22375



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## You think it's part of the Port of Houston and 1



## these plants that are near our house. 2



## Anyway, as the years went by, I did play 3



## sports and stuff, football, baseball, just like 4



## any other average kid. But I do recall I would 5



## have skin irritations and sometimes just some bad 6



## headaches. 7



## Anyway, I graduated high school in '91, 8



## got married to my wife, and I decided to purchase 9



## a house here too. Strongly, through the years, I 10



## believe the pollution, the air quality, the water 11



## -- I mean, I remember drinking water from the 12



## faucets here after a game of basketball, just 13



## drinking right there, no problem. You know, 14



## maybe a little bit of a pain in the stomach but 15



## nothing big. But now, of course, unfortunately, 16



## you got to purchase your own bottle, and I hate 17



## to get to the point where you have to purchase 18



## your own air. But I think strongly it is getting 19



## to a point like that. Just by waking up in the 20



## mornings, you can smell this foul smell. 21



## When it rains, it kind of leaves like a 22376



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## -- I can see it on the wipers where it looks like 1



## a residue or something, like oily or something. 2



## The roads that are right here off of 3



## Clinton Drive, I mean, I know there's industrial 4



## trucks running back and forth. I've been able to 5



## work up and down Clinton Drive, everything from 6



## Junkin Red Man Pipe all the way down to the Port 7



## by Lockwood and Clinton. But through the years, 8



## I have noticed that there's been more and more 9



## pollution through the air that we breathe every 10



## night. 11



## Like my wife, she likes to be messing 12



## with the garden and stuff, and we'll be outside. 13



## And you can smell like that, just the smell going 14



## around. Sometimes we get to the point where we 15



## get kind of weary and stuff at night, "You know, 16



## what, let's go back inside. We'll worry about the 17



## yard or whatever tomorrow." 18



## Now, unfortunately, in a woman's 19



## conversation, which I don't have nothing to do 20



## with, but I have heard through my wife and some 21



## other family members how some women that will be 22377



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pregnant have had miscarriages. And it's weird. 1



## It's odd. Other family members that are living 2



## in other parts of Houston, everything -- you 3



## don't ever hear anything wrong with their 4



## pregnancy, but for some reason, here, a lot of 5



## old high school friends, the pregnant ones had a 6



## miscarriage or whatever. But there is something 7



## going on, and I honestly feel that -- unless our 8



## voices are being heard, can something be done. 9



## I know these companies. They want to 10



## expand. It ain't like some small company that 11



## mom and pop opened up. Now you have these big 12



## corporations, and of course, just like anybody 13



## else, the demand is high. We start off with a 14



## small bottle of Coke. Now everybody is buying 15



## the 32-, even the 24-ounce. Why? Because the 16



## demand is higher, make more money. Whenever I 17



## see these chemical plants, I feel that they need 18



## to really just be more responsible on their part, 19



## and especially when we're neighbors. 20



## If we're to put like a fence like anybody 21



## else in any other neighborhood, of course, you 22378



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## know who your neighbor is. You don't know what's 1



## going on, on the other side of the fence, because 2



## you want that privacy, but if you were to remove 3



## it, that is still a neighbor. 4



## My thing is, I mean, do we have to 5



## basically -- instead of dressing up like normal 6



## community, running around playing soccer, 7



## basketball or whatever, I mean, do we have to 8



## like personally, our own selves, dress up like 9



## the guys that are working in the chemical plants, 10



## wearing long-sleeved shirts, respirators, safety 11



## glasses and stuff? Why do they do it? Because 12



## everything that is burning burned or anything 13



## that they're working with, it's what they call a 14



## "work zone." 15



## But if you remove that wall, which 16



## unfortunately when you are dealing with air, 17



## there is not a fence line that can block it away 18



## or anything. I mean, we are basically sharing. 19



## So if we are going to share, I might as well 20



## dress like they are, because for some reason in 21



## their safety coordination or their safety council 22379



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## meeting, they are saying, "Hey, you have to dress 1



## like this because you need to meet this in case 2



## something happens." That's what it all falls 3



## down to, in case some leak, in case somebody 4



## slips, falls, or something just happens to burn 5



## up. 6



## Now, they're not using nice shirts. They 7



## are having to use flame-resistant. They are 8



## having to use -- you know, wash your eyes, but we 9



## are dealing with something that is invisible, and 10



## sometimes, unless it has foul smell, can we 11



## detect it, what about us? We don't. All we do 12



## is wake up with headaches, and I'm just having a 13



## bad day or maybe I'm having a good day. Hey, 14



## guess what? For some reason, I'm spotting all my 15



## underwear. For some reason, I am not feeling 16



## well. 17



## For some reason, when you talk to a lot 18



## of the neighbors around here, everybody is having 19



## to say, just had a kit, that had a kit. "Hey, do 20



## you have one of those machines? I got one of 21



## those. You got one of those. All those 22380



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## respirators." Why? Because we have babies that 1



## are being born, and wait a minute. This ain't 2



## like a pure air you can breathe. 3



## I mean, I've been in the hospital myself. 4



## I know how oxygen smells. I know how it smells 5



## in Conroe or in other neighborhoods where, yeah, 6



## there's probably a lot more trees than chemical 7



## plants. 8



## But we go back again. Who is our 9



## neighbor? There is not a fence line right there. 10



## Unfortunately, we are having to share that air 11



## pollution, and the workers see it. But, of 12



## course, they work certain days in the week, 13



## certain hours, and you got to go get that 14



## physical, make sure you're okay to continue to 15



## work, but what about us? Does anybody ever say, 16



## "Hey, you're a mom and a dad. You're trying to 17



## raise up a family"? What future do they have? 18



## And it seems like a lot of the people 19



## here have said, What future are our kids going to 20



## have? Are they going to be around? Are we going 21



## to be around for them? 22381



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Like I said, I'm just glad the people I 1



## got to come out here and hear us out. Honestly, 2



## I wish -- believe me, we could have filled this 3



## place up. I mean, honestly. This about the air, 4



## this about the pollution, the community, all this 5



## environment -- I mean these chemical plants are 6



## expanding. Yes. We see it every day, and we're 7



## just wondering what's being done. Who knows 8



## about this? What's going on, on that? Did 9



## somebody hear something last night? Were we 10



## notified? Were we told? Unless you're somebody 11



## that works inside, do you ever really get any 12



## kind of scoop about that? 13



## But other than that, like I said, I 14



## appreciate your all's time, and thank you all. 15



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 16



## MS. SHINE: Thank you. 17



## MR. STANLEY: My name is Banner Royal 18



## Stanley. I was born and raised up in the 19



## mountains of Virginia State, coal mining area. 20



## We had the problems up there. 21



## I left there at the age of 17 and came 22382



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## out here with a brother and sister-in-law to 1



## Harris County area here. 2



## I worked on the Southside of Houston, 3



## where they had a little small -- well, I at first 4



## worked downtown Houston at the First National 5



## Bank Building doing maintenance work, and I 6



## noticed at that time, I was getting migraine 7



## headaches. I didn't know it. 8



## Being outside waiting for the bus that I 9



## road back and forth to town, we was living on the 10



## Northside of town, right off of Irvington 11



## Boulevard and later on moved to Stella Lane. My 12



## brother was a barber, and he moved around. He 13



## ended up moving to Pasadena, and they had a lot 14



## of problems. 15



## I've been living over in Central City 16



## since 1975 in the same house. The thing is 17



## falling apart on me. The air conditioners, the 18



## window units we have -- my son and daughter lives 19



## with me. My wife passed away over a year ago, 20



## and she had health problems real bad. 21



## Just one right after another, we both -- 22383



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## all have sinus problems over there, allergies, 1



## and I noticed the windows of the house, it's the 2



## blackish looking stuff settling on it. I can't 3



## keep the siding clean on it. It settles on the 4



## vinyl siding I had put on there 3 years ago. 5



## But anyway, it's been a mess over there. 6



## I stay up late, and I go outside, you know, and 7



## at three o'clock in the morning, I get this 8



## smell. I say, "Uh-oh. They are letting off some 9



## steam over Pasadena or somewhere over there. 10



## Some pressure." They have to do those things, 11



## because if they don't, something will set up a 12



## reaction, and you can have some explosions. 13



## See, I drive tank trucks a few years ago. 14



## I've been all over the country hauling chemicals. 15



## I've hauled gasoline. I've hauled jet fuel into 16



## the Air Force Base in this state. I've been to 17



## Fort Hood. I know about chemical companies, what 18



## the tanks that hold that stuff can do. 19



## I've seen a film. We had to go to safety 20



## school by the DOT, Department of Transportation. 21



## We were required to do that and have physicals 22384



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## every 2 years. But I had some other problems, 1



## some physical problems. 2



## My career ended a little short, 1984. I 3



## was denied time off work at the company I was 4



## working for in Texas City, okay? A trucking 5



## company. We had a terminal down there, and when 6



## the trucking industry had been deregulated -- and 7



## that is when greed broke out like the measles. 8



## Everybody in the country could not open up a 9



## trucking company. You know what I'm saying? 10



## I was flatly denied time off. I came in 11



## for my solo run from Alabama, and I had some real 12



## back pains, which I ended up in the hospital 13



## sometime after. Nine days, I had two ruptured 14



## discs. That was from a childhood injury that I 15



## sustained when I was around 4 years old. I 16



## couldn't blame the company per se for my 17



## injuries, but I did talk to the terminal manager 18



## of the condition, and he tape-recorded it. At 19



## that particular time, I was denied time off. 20



## There was another drive that went to 21



## Pennsylvania, went me across the state line, 22385



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## which is a no-no, you know. All that took place. 1



## I tried to get representation. I lost this. I 2



## lost that. I had insurance, long-term disability 3



## from a company I won't name, but 3 years, they 4



## paid me. Long term. How long is long term? I 5



## was still unable to go back to work. Company 6



## policy is 6 months. You are expected to go back 7



## to work at 6 months by their insurance carriers, 8



## you know, because they put out a lot of money, 9



## health and welfare, employees, you see, for the 10



## Federal Government. You got to pay out a certain 11



## amount of health and welfare. 12



## But as far as the chemicals, I've been in 13



## and out, the pollution, the filthiest places. 14



## I've been in a paper mill in North Louisiana, and 15



## you couldn't hardly breathe in there. I don't 16



## see how the employees could take it. It's just 17



## ridiculous, all these different companies, every 18



## Dick, Tom, and Harry wants to open up a chemical 19



## company. That's the thing to go for these days 20



## and create another, different product. 21



## I've been in the cigarette plant in 22386



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Louisville, Kentucky, with a loaded product, a 1



## liquid, they add to the tobacco, you see. That's 2



## just another thing. That's a filthy place, all 3



## this pollution going through in there. 4



## I understand everybody. My son, he's 5



## down now. He worked. He's only 40 years old, 6



## breathing real heavy. I suspect he's got some 7



## metal dust in his lungs. The company he worked 8



## for, a family-operated company, you know, long 9



## hours and ridiculous. Couldn't supply breathing 10



## apparatus for the people who are breathing this 11



## stuff in, you know. 12



## I have one brother and family moved to 13



## Albuquerque, New Mexico. They were moving from 14



## here in just Central City. Galena Park. They 15



## had to get out of there. They came back to 16



## visit. They got sick, had to go to emergency 17



## room. Got back to New Mexico. They said, "We 18



## got healed when we got out of there. We got out 19



## of all that pollution down there." Brothers. 20



## They moved out of Deer Park because of the 21



## pollution over there and high waters we've been 22387



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## having. They moved to Georgia. I don't blame 1



## you. I understand all these things, but what are 2



## we going to do? I mean, the people just coming 3



## in, the promoters of business come to this area. 4



## We've got too much now already. 5



## I've been here since 1962, spring of '62, 6



## I came down. I was only 17 when I got here. 7



## [Expletive removed], I've had my problems. I 8



## really didn't pay attention to things until I 9



## started having these allergies. I developed 10



## migraines at the bank because I was outside 11



## having to wait, and that's diesel. Diesel fuel 12



## got me. It would knock you over from those buses 13



## I had to wait for. You know, the buses still use 14



## diesel fuel. 15



## So these things all amount to what we got 16



## now. What do we have? What kind of lifestyle do 17



## we have? 18



## If we go to church, scream and holler and 19



## get all this stuff out of our system. We go to 20



## the gym. I've noticed the difference when I 21



## breathe when I go back in that steam room they 22388



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## have, hot steam room. It helps to open me up. 1



## Doctor put me on a breathing -- not a machine. 2



## One of those inhaler things to help me breathe 3



## better. 4



## I don't have the finances to move out of 5



## there. I am on Social Security disability, and 6



## it's not all that much. I just hang on. My son, 7



## he just signed up for disability. I'm anxious to 8



## see what they're going to do for him. When I 9



## signed up, he was a teenager, him and my daughter 10



## both. She's got real bad allergy problems, both 11



## of us. But when their mother passed away, she 12



## had problems. She was diabetic. I don't know if 13



## that had anything with her being diabetic, but 14



## she lived with cancer, all kinds of different 15



## allergies and things. 16



## I've had three nieces that's had to have 17



## their breasts removed that lived in Deer Park, 18



## two of them in Deer Park, and one of them lived 19



## in Central City for a long time. They live in 20



## South towards Galveston there, but they had to 21



## have their breasts removed because of cancer. 22389



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## My sister had to have breasts not 1



## removed, but she had cancer. She lived on the 2



## Southside off of Stella Lake Boulevard for years, 3



## but then she moved out of here into Corrigan. 4



## She met a guy. Her husband passed away. We 5



## don't know what happened. 6



## Her mother, my late wife's mother, had 7



## heart problems. She died in her sleep. She 8



## lived over there on the other side of Interstate 9



## 10, in that area. 10



## MS. LASSITER: Mr. Stanley, I need to ask 11



## you to wrap up your statement, please. 12



## MR. STANLEY: Pardon? 13



## MS. LASSITER: I need to ask you to wrap 14



## up your statement, please. 15



## MR. STANLEY: Okay, okay. 16



## Anyway, I can understand all the problems 17



## you guys hearing here, but I'm putting up with it 18



## myself. 19



## I thank you guys for trying to do 20



## something. I don't know what it's going to be 21



## like. I have no idea. But we got it now. What 22390



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## are we going to do with it? 1



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 2



## MS. SHINE: Thank you. 3



## [Applause.] 4



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. Next, I would like 5



## to ask Mr. Jeff Stear if he would please come to 6



## the table, and while Mr. Stear is coming to the 7



## table, this is a time check. It is 7:30. We are 8



## scheduled to be here at eight. If anyone who has 9



## joined us would like to speak, we would ask that 10



## you please at this time go ahead and sign up at 11



## the table where you came in. 12



## Mr. Stear. 13



## MR. STEAR: Hi. My name is Jeff Stear. 14



## I am a brand-new high school teacher at Milby 15



## High School. I am semi-retired in here, been in 16



## Houston for about 10 years. The last 6 years, 17



## I've worked in the environmental business, 18



## environmental remediation predominantly, worked 19



## in a lot of the plants, done a lot of work in 20



## those places and just about a year ago decided to 21



## retire from that and go into teaching. 22391



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## It's interesting. I originally didn't 1



## come here to speak. I came here because my 2



## students and I, we're part of a new learning 3



## approach with HISD, so some of the teachers and I 4



## put together a project for our freshman students 5



## this year to study this proposed ruling and 6



## education the community around Milby about the 7



## potential implications and just to kind of 8



## educate them about the complexities in their 9



## regulations and the pollution efforts to control 10



## pollution in refineries and just all those kinds 11



## of things. 12



## It is interesting for me, and part of the 13



## reason, I guess, that we did that was because -- 14



## this is my first year teaching, and this is some 15



## of the kids at Milby. A lot of these kids live 16



## on the other side of that fence or they certainly 17



## know people who live on the other side of that 18



## fence. So I knew that it would be something that 19



## would be near and dear to their hearts. We will 20



## find out in a couple of weeks, but I am pretty 21



## confident that they are all going to embrace 22392



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## this. 1



## I wasn't sure I wanted to get up here, 2



## honestly, because about a year and a half ago, I 3



## don't think I would have done it because I would 4



## have been afraid for my job. So I'm kind of 5



## fortunate that I've kind of shifted out of that 6



## industry and had the opportunity to come up here 7



## and not really have to worry about it, hopefully. 8



## I don't think I do. 9



## But I do think it's important that we 10



## keep the rigor up, as we say in education, we 11



## continue to ask the refinery to toe the line. I 12



## have learned just in the last few months that 13



## I've gotten involved in looking at this program 14



## how much the air pollution in Houston has 15



## improved over the last 30 or 40 years. That's 16



## solely, probably -- not solely, but clearly, to a 17



## large extent, because of increased regulation by 18



## the EPA with TCEQ and improved enforcement. 19



## And I think it's important that we 20



## continue to have high standards and high 21



## expectations for industry in terms of the healthy 22393



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## air and healthy communities. 1



## I feel pretty lucky -- or I should say I 2



## felt pretty lucky to live in an area of Houston 3



## that is pretty far removed from a lot of these 4



## petroleum facilities and chemical plants. I've 5



## done a lot of work in them. You always hear 6



## stories. 7



## Working at Milby, you start hearing a few 8



## more stories from teachers who have been there 9



## for a long time from -- yeah, people talk about 10



## is the proximity to the Ship Channel and to some 11



## of these petrochemical facilities contributing to 12



## health problems. You know, who knows? It is 13



## very difficult to prove, obviously. 14



## But to me, the fact is that you guys are 15



## here, that this is something to me at least that 16



## has just kind of fallen out of the sky. I'm sure 17



## there's a lot of people here who may have been 18



## instrumental in pushing for this for a long time, 19



## complaining and demonstrating their concern for 20



## their families and their health problems. 21



## But, to me, getting ready to spend the 22394



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## rest of my career or at least the next 10 or 15 1



## years at Milby, and I'm a little concerned. 2



## Clearly, I feel like I wouldn't be there if I was 3



## -- I am smart enough -- or I shouldn't say I'm 4



## smart enough. I am fortunate enough that I can 5



## pick where I want to be, and if I really was 6



## seriously concerned about my health, I probably 7



## would not be there. But I'm not sure I'll be 8



## there if I continue to see evidence of people 9



## having problems with their respiratory health in 10



## the next 5 to 10 years. 11



## So I guess the biggest thing to me also 12



## as an engineer and as somebody who has done a lot 13



## of cost-benefit analysis and looked at projects 14



## and worked in plants, at the end of the day, the 15



## decisions that are made by industry are 16



## ultimately based on the bottom line of the 17



## dollar, and it's our job as concerned citizens, 18



## as educated citizens, to do everything we can to, 19



## again, hold that high standard. It's not 20



## necessarily fortunate or unfortunate; it's just 21



## the way it is. Business is business, and the 22395



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## language that is spoken is dollars that we have 1



## to be able to -- 2



## Another thing I've learned just from the 3



## short amount of research I've done is that a lot 4



## of the progress that's been made and a lot of the 5



## technology, technological advances that I've 6



## heard in refining and various other industries 7



## has been because EPA has helped mandated air 8



## quality standards that drives the technology to 9



## help these industries meet those standards, and 10



## that provides jobs. It provides a lot of 11



## benefits to me, as well. 12



## I just wanted to say I am all for 13



## continuing to raise the bar and to keep those 14



## expectations high. I am not going to try to 15



## speak for others, but it wouldn't surprise me if 16



## there are a lot of other people who would like to 17



## be able to say that, that probably wouldn't feel 18



## comfortable saying it. So I'm glad I can be here 19



## to say it for them. 20



## MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 21



## MR. SHINE: Thank you. 22396



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## [Applause.] 1



## MS. LASSITER: If you would, please state 2



## your name and spell it, so I can be sure and get 3



## it for the record. 4



## MS. GOSSETT: My name is Lisa Gossett, 5



## L-i-s-a, G-o-s-s-e-t-t. 6



## I have been on the Environmental 7



## Management Faculty at the University of 8



## Houston-Clear Lake, here locally for over 10 9



## years. The views expressed are my own. 10



## I want to thank all of you for coming to 11



## listen to the community, and I will repeat what 12



## I'm sure others have said, that there has been 13



## improvement in the air quality, at least with 14



## respect to ozone levels in this area in the last 15



## 15 years or so. 16



## However, that doesn't mean there isn't a 17



## need for much more improvement, improvement that 18



## is economically justified, economically 19



## reasonable, that will improve the community's 20



## health, its quality of life, and ultimately 21



## minimize the long-term risk to both the 22397



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## communities and I believe the industries locally, 1



## as we look to the long term rather than just the 2



## next quarterly meeting of shareholders. 3



## I will point out my perception, having 4



## worked in the broad range of environmental 5



## issues, and that is that health assessment is 6



## done in a broad range of agency contexts. It 7



## tends to be done on what I would call a 8



## theoretical basis rather than an on-the-ground 9



## basis where they look at monitoring data or test 10



## results typically of single constituents and say, 11



## "Okay. Based on this concentration of this 12



## single chemical and this anticipated exposure 13



## route, we calculate that we don't have that big a 14



## risk." 15



## What I very seldom see and certainly have 16



## not seen in recent years or locally is what I 17



## would call on-the-ground. Let's look at the 18



## actually health in the community that has not 19



## been done that needs to be done -- 20



## [Applause.] 21



## MS. GOSSETT: -- whether it is in this 22398



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## rulemaking process or in the various Superfund 1



## sites around here, referencing significant health 2



## complaints raised with respect to -- in another 3



## EPA hearing last night on a proposal to change 4



## the remedy at a nearby Superfund site. 5



## The theoretical approach does not look at 6



## synergistic effects among numerous chemicals. 7



## They do not look at cumulative effects. They do 8



## not really look at exposures from multiple 9



## sources which the residents in these areas along 10



## the Ship Channel are experiencing. 11



## I have heard industry say in the media 12



## with respect to this rulemaking that they have 13



## done a lot. They seem to take that as an excuse 14



## to prevent them from doing more. I recognize 15



## that there have been significant improvements or 16



## at least some improvements in the monitor data 17



## for ozone and certain historical hotspots. What 18



## that has shown is that when industry is motivated 19



## and when regulations are applied across the 20



## board, industry can find cost-effective ways to 21



## improve their operations. 22399



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I am old enough to remember the exposés I 1



## saw on "60 Minutes" in the '70s about vinyl 2



## chloride and how they finally -- and certainly, 3



## lots of people knew it before "60 Minutes" did, 4



## but finally were making the connection between 5



## the cancers experienced by their workers and the 6



## exposure to vinyl chloride. We have not banned 7



## vinyl chloride. Vinyl chloride is still in 8



## considerable use. We have learned to manage the 9



## exposure better in a cost-effective manner that 10



## allows it to still be used in the manufacturing 11



## process. It takes regulations, an 12



## across-the-board uniform mandate to get those 13



## changes in place. 14



## Again and again, industry has 15



## significantly overstated the costs to comply with 16



## proposed regulations. It is a continuing 17



## perpetual mantra. It is going to cost money. It 18



## is going to cost jobs. The reality in many of 19



## these regulations has been the opposite. 20



## This is a good start. I do appreciate 21



## that this regulation gathers monitoring data. 22400



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I'm a big believer in openness and transparency. 1



## I urge that you adopt the regulations and 2



## consider continuing more with evaluating what is 3



## presenting the risks to the community, what is 4



## the health of the community, and what are the 5



## reasonable approaches to address it rather than 6



## the hyperbole that is often heard. 7



## Thank you for this opportunity to speak. 8



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you very much. 9



## MS. SHINE: Thank you. 10



## [Applause.] 11



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. At this point, we 12



## don't have any additional speakers. If anyone 13



## came in late and would like to speak -- okay. Do 14



## you have some additional -- 15



## [Pause.] 16



## MS. LASSITER: Okay. At this time, I 17



## would like to ask Ms. Margarita Arantes Ligran, 18



## if you would please come forward. 19



## MS. LIGRAN: Hello. Good evening. 20



## MS. LASSITER: Hi. How are you? 21



## MS. LIGRAN: Fine. 22401



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I'm not a specialist of any kind in the 1



## oil and gas refinery. However, in my private -- 2



## in my professional life, I'm a political social 3



## worker. My undergrad is neuroscience and 4



## chemistry, so I have some knowledge. 5



## I also have the flexibility to work and 6



## come here and talk, and all I want to say is I 7



## have friends that I care for deeply that live 8



## here that are significant members of our 9



## community that may not have had the opportunity 10



## to come here and talk. 11



## My ancestry is from Chile, and it's 12



## Chilean folk-like group, and I feel that if we 13



## have the science and technology to improve the 14



## quality of the refineries, that we should do it 15



## not only for those that can speak today but for 16



## those that can't speak today, not only humans but 17



## also animals, insects, the whole love of life 18



## that we live on. 19



## I feel that we're all part of the 20



## problem, and that we all need to work together to 21



## be part of the solution. 22402



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I like to run, and I see all the time, 1



## Chevron, Hermann Hospital, you know, let's run 2



## for the cure for cancer. I feel that why don't 3



## we do that for the refineries, bring the 4



## community together to say, "I'm willing to run a 5



## 5K to raise money to help improve the quality of 6



## these refineries," not just for myself, but again 7



## for the people that I love and care for that live 8



## in the vicinity of Galena Park. 9



## We don't have to necessarily take our tax 10



## money. We can take some, but we can take some 11



## private funds that people are willing to share. 12



## Instead of going out to dinner, earmark some of 13



## those funds in a 5K, 10K marathon, triathlon. 14



## Very popular right now. 15



## So that's it. 16



## MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 17



## Okay. I don't believe we have any more 18



## speakers signed up at this point, so I am going 19



## to put the meeting in recess. We will be closing 20



## the meeting at eight o'clock. If anyone has come 21



## in and would like to speak, I would ask you to 22403



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## please go at this time and sign up. Otherwise, I 1



## am going to keep it in recess, unless we have 2



## someone show up before eight. 3



## [Recess taken from 7:45 to 7:58 p.m.] 4



## MS. LASSITER: I am going to officially 5



## close the meeting now, as we have no more 6



## speakers waiting. 7



## So thank all of you for coming. I 8



## appreciate your participation. 9



## ATTENDEES: Thank you. 10



## [Whereupon, at 7:58 p.m., the public 11



## hearing concluded.] 12

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