### OZPARTIvltN TO i TRANSPORWiO N TH E OFFIC E O F HEARING S WITH THE i.-QCKb l OPERATION

S U.S . DEPARTMEN T O F TRANSPORTATIO N 

### INTHE MATTE ROF : ) ^^"0^ 0 2 ^ P 1^5 5 ) FDM S NO . FAA-2011-100 9 QUENTO NT . BROW N) •.••'' • 122 0 L . St . N W#60 0 Washington , D.C . 2000 5 Wednesday , Decembe r 7 , 201 1 Th e partie s met , pursuan t t o th e notice , a t 1:3 3 p.m . BEFORE : HONORABL E J . E . SULLIVA N Administrativ e La wJudg e APPEARANCE S B YTELEPHONE : Fo r th e Complainant : MAR K G . CAMACO , Esquir e Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n Offic e o f Regiona l Counse l Centra l Regio nACE- 7 90 1 Locust , Roo m50 6 Kansa s City , Missour i 64106-264 1 TEL : (816 ) 329-376 5 FAX : (816)329-377 1 Fo r th e Respondent : QUENTO NT . BROWN , Pr o S e 244 0 Woodwin dTria l Melbourne , Florid a 32935(321 ) 594-850 1

# c DE C 2 0 201 1 

# HEARIN G DOCKE T

Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 PROCEEDING S 2 (1:3 3 p.m. ) 3 TH E CLERK : Mr . Brown ? 4 MR . BROWN : Hi . Ho war e you ? 5 TH E CLERK : An dth e cour t reporter , ar e yo u 6 there ? 7 TH E COUR T REPORTER : Yes , I am . 8 TH E CLERK : Okay . Judg e Sulliva ni s o nth e 9 line . G o ahead , please . 1 0 TH E COURT : Than k you , Ms . Mays . Mr . Cour t 1 1 Reporter , coul dyo upleas e identif yyoursel f b ynam e 1 2 fo r me , please ? 1 3 MR . BROWN : Quento nBrown . 1 4 TH E COURT : I' msorry . 1 5 TH E COURT : Mr . Cour t Reporter , coul dyo u 1 6 identif yyoursel f b yname , please ? 1 7 TH E COUR T REPORTER : Yes , You r Honor , it' s 1 8 Kyl e Johnson . 1 9 TH E COURT : Than k you . An dMr . Johnson , d o 2 0 yo unee da volum e chec k wit hanyon e o nth e staf f 2 1 befor e w e g o o nrecord ? 2 2 TH E COUR T REPORTER : I hav e bee nabl e t o 2 3 hea r everybod yfin e s o far , You r Honor . 2 4 TH E COURT : Okay . I' mgettin g a littl e bi t 2 5 o f a necho . I s ther e somebod ywh o ha s a speake r Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 turne do nbeside s myself ? 2 TH E COUR T REPORTER : No t I , Judge . 3 MR . BROWN : I do . I do . 4 TH E COURT : Okay , Mr . Brown , i f yo ucoul d 5 pic k u p you r headse t s o tha t w e don' t hav e to o man y 6 speake r phones , tha t woul db e helpful . Ca nyo ud o 7 tha t no wfo r me , please ? 8 MR . BROWN : Yes . 9 TH E COURT : Okay . Tha t sound s better . Mr . 1 0 Cour t Reporter , ar e yo uready ? 1 1 TH E COUR T REPORTER : Yes , You r Honor . 1 2 TH E COURT : We'r e o nth e recor di nth e 1 3 matte r o f Quento nT . Brown . Thi s i s a nFAAdocke t 1 4 numbe r tha t ha s ye t t o b e assigned . I d o hav e a nFDM S 1 5 numbe r whic hi s FAA-2011-1009 . Toda yi s Wednesday , 1 6 Decembe r 7 , 2011 , an dth e partie s hav e convene db y 1 7 telephon e fo r a secon dlitigatio nschedulin g 1 8 conference . Th e Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio nher e 1 9 an dou t referre dt o a s th e FA Ai s represente db yit s 2 0 attorne yo f record , Mr . Mar k G . Comacho . Th e 2 1 Respondent , Quenton.T . Brown , i s representin g himsel f 2 2 a t thi s time . I'l l not e tha t thi s i s th e secon d 2 3 litigatio nschedulin g conference . 2 4 Th e firs t conferenc e occurre do nTuesday , 2 5 Novembe r 22 , 2011 , a t whic htim e Mr . Brow nwa s no t Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 presen t an d ther e wa s n o explanatio nfo r hi s absence . 2 Whydon' t w e d o a coupl e differen t thing s befor e w e 3 star t talkin g abou t th e merit s o f th e cas e fo r 4 litigatio nscheduling ? Mr . Brown , I' mgoin g t o tur n 5 t o yo u first , sir . Ar e yo u intendin g t o represen t 6 yoursel f i n thes e proceeding s o r ar e yo u i n th e 7 proces s o f hirin g a n attorne yo r a helpfu l 8 representativ e t o assis t you ? 9 MR . BROWN : I' mrepresentin g myself . You r 1 0 Honor . 1 1 TH E COURT : Okay . D o yo u hav e any 1 2 particula r experienc e i n representin g yoursel f befor e 1 3 th e Cour t eithe r a t thi s Cour t o r som e othe r court ? 1 4 D

o yo uha\' esom

eexperienc egoin g int o cour t and 1 5 makin g you r wishe s known ? 1 6 MR . BROWN : No , I hav e n o experienc e wit h 1 7 court , You r Honor . 1 8 TH E COURT : Okay . The nlet' s star t firs t 1 9 an d foremos t wit hd o yo u understan dwhywe'v e convene d 2 0 toda yfo r thi s conference ? 2 1 MR . BROWN : Yes , I do . You r Honor . 2 2 TH E COURT : Okay . I s ther e som e explanatio n 2 3 tha t yo u hav e fo r whyyo u di d no t appea r a t th e 2 4 conferenc e tha t wa s hel di n lat e November , o n Novembe r 2 5 22 , 2011 ? Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 1 MR . BROWN : I couldn' t attend . You r Honor .

2 TH E COURT : Whynot ? 3 MR . BROWN : I didn' t hav e th e mone yt o go . 4 TH E COURT : Well , you'r e o nth e phon e righ t 5 now . I t usuall ydoesn' t cos t mone yt o appea r from 6 hom e o nyou r telephone . W e ha da litigatio n 7 schedulin g conferenc e convene db ytelephon e o n 8 Tuesday , Novembe r 22 , 2011 . W e calle dyou r phon e 9 number , andn o bodyanswered . D o yo uhav e anyide a 1 0 whyyo u di dno t pic k up th e phon e andattend ? 1 1 MR . BROWN : I ha dt o wor k th e previou s nigh t 1 2 o nth e nigh t shif t a t m yjob . 1 3 TH E COURT : Okay , andwher e wer e yo uo n 1 4 Tuesday , Novembe r 22nd , 201 1 a t te ni nth e morning ? 1 5 MR . BROWN : I t wa s myfaul t completely , You r 1 6 Honor . 1 7 TH E COURT : I understan dtha t yo udidn' t 1 8 sho wup . I' m wonderin g wher e yo uwere , wha t happened . 1 9 Ca nyo u explai nt o th e Cour t whyyo umisse da cour t 2 0 date ? 2 1 MR . BROWN : I nhono r o f th e Court , You r 2 2 Honor , it' s completel ymyfault . I shoul dhav e 2 3 attended . 2 4 TH E COURT : Okay . 2 5 MR . BROWN : S o i t doesn' t matte r - - Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 TH E COURT : Well , i t doe s matte r becaus e I' m 2 askin g you , an dwhe nth e Cour t ask s yo ua question , 3 you'r e suppose dt o answe r it . 4 MR . BROWN : Okay . 5 TH E COURT : S o wher e wer e you ? Wha t 6 happened ? 7 MR . BROWN : I worke dth e nigh t shif t a t m y 8 jo btha t previou s night . You r Honor . I thin k i t wa s 9 tw o night s straight , an dI didn' t ge t an yslee p th e 1 0 previou s night , You r Honor . 1 1 TH E COURT : Okay , s o i t sound s t o m e lik e 1 2 you'r e tellin g m e tha t yo uwer e aslee p a t th e tim e o f 1 3 th e conference ? 1 4 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 5 TH E COURT : Okay . Than k you . I nth e 1 6 future , Mr . Brown , yo unee dt o wak e u p an datten dth e 1 7 conference . 1 8 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 9 TH E COURT : Okay . Whe nth e Cour t hold s a 2 0 conference , yo uar e obligate dt o appear . I f yo u 2 1 canno t appea r fo r whateve r reason , the nit' s u p t o yo u 2 2 t o fin dsomeon e o nyou r behal f o r t o contac t th e 2 3 Court' s assistant , Ms . May s wh o you'v e talke dt o I 24 thin k a littl e bit , ahea do f tim e tha t yo unee dt o 2 5 chang e th e dat e an dtime . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 TH E COURT : An dth e Cour t ca nalway s assis t 3 yo uwhe nthos e ar e unavoidabl e problems . Bu t mos t o f 4 th e tim e whe nyo uar e representin g yoursel f an dyo u 5 appea r befor e th e Court , yo usho wu p fo r al l you r 6 cour t date s an dyo usho wu p prepared , s o jus t s o tha t 7 yo uknow . 8 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 9 TH E COURT : Okay . Than k you . 1 0 TH E COURT : Secondly , m yassistant , Ms . 1 1 Mays , advise dm e tha t sh e di dtal k t o yo uo nNovembe r 1 2 22nd , 2011 , a littl e late r tha t day , an dsh e sai d- - I 1 3 ha daske dhe r t o mak e sur e tha t w e ha dyou r correc t 1 4 addres s becaus e ther e wa s som e informatio nprovide dt o 1 5 thi s Cour t b yMr . Camach o o nNovembe r 22nd , 201 1 tha t 1 6 w e migh t no t hav e th e correc t addres s fo r you , an dI 1 7 wante dt o mak e sur e tha t w e di dhav e th e righ t 1 8 address . 1 9 MR . BROWN : Wha t i s th e address , You r Honor ? 2 0 TH E COURT : Accordin g t o Ms . Mays , whe nsh e 2 1 spok e t o yo uo nNovembe r 22nd , 2011 , yo uconfirme do r 2 2 agree dtha t w e di dhav e th e correc t mailin g addres s 2 3 fo r you , an dI jus t wan t t o mak e sur e tha t that' s 2 4 stil l correct . 2 5 W e hav e you r addres s a s 62 2 Wes t Mille r Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 81 Street , M-I-L-L-E-R , Orlando , Florid a 32805-4502 ; i s

2 tha t correct ? 3 MR . BROWN : No , it' s no t correct . You r 4 Honor . 5 TH E COURT : I t i s no t correct ? Wha t i s you r 6 correc t mailin g address , sir ? 7 MR . BROWN : 244 0 - - 8 TH E COURT : I' msorry . I couldn' t hea r you . 9 Coul dyo uspea k up , please ? 1 0 MR . BROWN : It' s 244 0 Woodwin dTrail . 1 1 TH E COURT : Coul dyo uspel l th e stree t nam e 1 2 fo r me , please ? 1 3 MR . BROWN : W-O-O-D-T-R-A-I-L . 1 4 TH E COURT : Okay , I' mgoin g t o tr yit . It' s 1 5 244 0 - - 1 6 MR . BROWN : Okay . 1 7 TH E COURT : An dthe ni s i t Woo dRai l - - 1 8 MR . BROWN : It' s Woodwin dTrail . 1 9 TH E COURT : - - W-O-O- D R-A-I-L ? 2 0 MR . BROWN : No . It' s Woodwin dTrail , You r 2 1 Honor , I' msorry . 2 2 TH E COURT : Coul dyo uspel l th e stree t nam e 2 3 agai nfo r me , please ? 24 MR . BROWN : It' s W-O-O- D T-R-A-I-L . 2 5 TH E COURT : Okay , Woo dTrail , wit ha T a s i n Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 Tom ? An di s tha t a road , a street , a navenue ? 2 MR . BROWN : I' msorry . I sai dWoo dTrail , I 3 spelle dWoo dTrial . It' s Woodwin dTrail . 4 TH E COURT : Okay . 5 MR . BROWN : Tha t woul db e it . Sorry . 6 TH E COURT : Spel l Woodwin dan dthe nspel l 7 Trail , please . 8 MR . BROWN : W-O-O-D-W-I-N- D T-R-A-I-L . 9 TH E COURT : An di s tha t tw o separat e words , 1 0 Woodwin dan dthe nTrail ? 1 1 MR . BROWN : No , it' s on e word . I mean , it' s 1 2 tw o separat e words , but , yo ukno wWoodwin di s on e 1 3 word . You r Honor . 1 4 TH E COURT : Okay , an di s tha t Woodwin d 1 5 Trail , i s ther e a street , avenue , circle , o r 1 6 boulevard , o r anythin g lik e tha t afte r that ? 1 7 MR . BROWN : Yes , an dit' s i nMelbourne , 1 8 Florida . Melbourn e i s spelle dM-E-L-B-O-U-R-N-E , 1 9 Florida . 2 0 TH E COURT : An dwhat' s th e zi p code ? 2 1 MR . BROWN : It' s 32935 . 2 2 TH E COURT : I' msorry . Coul dyo urepea t 2 3 that , please ? 24 MR . BROWN : It' s 32935 , You r Honor . 2 5 TH E COURT : You'r e speakin g a littl e to o Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 quickl yfo r me , sir . Coul dyo u repea t tha t an dsa yi t 2 a littl e slower ? 3 MR . BROWN ; It' s 32935 . 4 TH E COURT : I'l l repea t tha t t o mak e sur e I 5 hav e i t correctly . 32935 ? 6 MR . BROWN : Yes . 7 TH E COURT : Okay . S o I hav e 24 4 0 Woodwin d 8 Trial , Melbourne , Florid a 32935 ; i s tha t correc t o r d o 9 I nee danythin g els e behin dthat ? 1 0 MR . BROWN : No , You r Honor . 1 1 TH E COURT : Okay . S o I don' t hav e a n 1 2 apartmen t number , o r a street , o r boulevard , o r 1 3 anythin g els e that' s attache dt o tha t address ? 1 4 MR . BROWN : No , You r Honor . 1 5 TH E COURT : Okay . Ho wlon g ha s thi s bee n 1 6 you r addres s o f record ? 1 7 MR . BROWN : I mean , I'v e ha dtha t addres s 1 8 fo r abou t I thin k si xmonths . 1 9 TH E COURT : Wa s you r previou s addres s th e 2 0 addres s tha t I gav e earlier , th e Orland o address ? 2 1 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 2 TH E COURT : D o yo ustil l receiv e mai l a t 2 3 tha t address ? 24 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 5 TH E COURT : Whic hi s th e addres s tha t yo u Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 us e mos t frequentl yt o obtai nmail ? 2 MR . BROWN : Well , no wit' s thi s one . It' s 3 thi s on e now . 4 TH E COURT : An dthi s on e meanin g th e 5 Melbourn e Florid a address ? 6 MR . BROWN : I thin k I hav e anothe r - - befor e 7 I staye dhere , You r Honor , I staye da t a naddres s 8 befor e tha t tha t I don' t thin k wa s brough t befor e th e 9 Court . 1 0 TH E COURT : Okay , well , le t m e as k thi s a 1 1 littl e differently . Whe ndi dyo ustar t - - whic h 1 2 addres s - - a s I understan dit , th e Melbourne , Florida , 1 3 addres s i s th e on e tha t yo uwan t t o us e fro mno wo n 1 4 fo r al l mailing ; i s tha t correct ? 1 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . Yes . 1 6 TH E COURT : Okay . Bu t accordin g t o wha t 1 7 you'v e jus t sai dt o me , an dcorrec t m e i f I a mwrong , 1 8 you'r e stil l receivin g mai l a t th e Orlando , Florida , 1 9 address ? 2 0 MR . BROWN : I thin k som e o f m ymai l i s stil l 2 1 goin g there . You r Honor . I hav e t o pic k u p m ymail . 2 2 TH E COURT : Okay . D o yo upic k u p you r mai l 2 3 there , o r i s i t gettin g forwarde dt o yo ub yth e U.S . 2 4 Pos t Office ? 2 5 MR . BROWN : It' s no t gettin g forwarded . You r Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 24 2 5 Honor . That' s wha t i t is . It' s no t gettin g

forwarded . TH E COURT : Okay . Di dyo ureceiv e a cop yo f th e orde r tha t thi s Cour t maile dou t t o yo uo n Novembe r 23rd , 2011 , that' s entitle do nth e firs t pag e orde r settin g secon dlitigatio nschedulin g conference ?

MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . TH E COURT : Okay . I nthi s particula r order , i t give s yo usom e direction . Di dyo urea dthi s order ?

MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . TH E COURT : D o yo uhav e th e orde r i nfron t
o f you ? MR . BROWN : No , You r Honor .

TH E COURT : Wher e i s it ? MR . BROWN : It' s a t tha t address . You r Honor . TH E COURT : I' msorry , whic haddress ?

MR . BROWN : Tha t previou s address . TH E COURT : Th e Orlando , Florida , address ? MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . TH E COURT : Wh ywoul di t b e ther e if , i n fact , yo udon' t liv e ther e an ymore ?

MR . BROWN : Well , I stil l g o ove r ther e t o ge t th e mail .

TH E COURT : Okay . Typicall yfo r peopl e wh o Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 ar e appearin g o nthei r ow nbehalf , on e o f you r job s i f 2 yo u decid e t o represen t yoursel f a s you'r e doin g 3 today , on e o f you r job s i s t o alway s hav e al l o f th e 4 paperwor k tha t i s bein g generate do r create di nthi s 5 litigatio nrigh t i nfron t o f yo ua s w e speak . 6 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 7 TH E COURT : Usuall ywha t peopl e d o i s the y 8 ge t a littl e manill a envelop e o r a fil e folde r an d 9 the ykee p al l o f thei r paper s i ntha t on e plac e s o 1 0 tha t the ykno wexactl ywher e the yare . 1 1 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 2 TH E COURT : Whe nyo u don' t kee p you r 1 3 paperwor k an dyo udon' t hav e i t i nfron t o f you , yo u 1 4 ar e no t helpin g yoursel f ver ywel l becaus e the nyo u 1 5 can' t answe r th e Court' s question s an dyo ucanno t 1 6 meaningfull yengag e i na dialogu e whe nth e Cour t ha s 1 7 informatio nt o provid e t o you . 1 8 S o fo r example , i nth e Novembe r 23rd , 200 0 1 9 orde r settin g secon dlitigatio nschedulin g conference , 2 0 i t directe dyo ut o contac t Ms . Mays , m yassistan t her e 2 1 i nWashington , D.C . an dge t informatio ni f yo uneede d 2 2 i t o nho wt o fil e a writte nanswe r t o th e allegation s 2 3 complaine di nth e FAA' s Notic e o f Complaint , an dyo u 24 haven' t don e that . 2 5 I f yo urea dthi s orde r a s yo usa yyo uhave . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 i s ther e som e reaso nwh yyo uhav e no t complie dye t 2 wit htha t direc t orde r fro mth e Court ? 3 MR. . BROWN : No , I hav e none . You r Honor , I 4 apologize . 5 TH E COURT : Okay . Le t m e as k yo uthis , Mr . 6 Brown , an dthe nI' mgoin g t o tur nt o Mr . Camacho . Bu t 7 I' mstil l wit hyou , Mr . Brown . 8 MR . BROWN : Than k you . You r Honor . 9 TH E COURT : Wha t i s i t tha t yo uideall y 1 0 woul dlik e t o se e happe ni nthi s litigation ? 1 1 Everybod yhas , yo uknow , thei r bes t optio nu p there , 1 2 an dthe nthe yhave , yo uknow . Pla nB an dPla nC i f th e 1 3 firs t optio ndoesn' t work . What' s you r greates t hop e 1 4 fo r th e outcom e i nthi s litigation ? D o yo uhav e an y 1 5 thought s abou t that ? 1 6 MR . BROWN : I hop e tha t everythin g get s 1 7 resolved . You r Honor , an di na timel yfashion . You r 1 8 Honor . 1 9 TH E COURT : Well , I thin k I ca nguarante e 2 0 yo utha t tha t wil l happen . That' s par t o f wha t I' m 2 1 her e for . Hav e yo uha da chanc e t o tal k privatel y 2 2 wit hMr . Camach o abou t th e allegation s tha t th e FAA 2 3 ha s mad e an dwhethe r o r no t there' s a possibilit ytha t 2 4 th e tw o o f yo ucoul dresolv e i t withou t goin g t o 2 5 trial ? Hav e yo uha da chanc e t o d o tha t yet ? Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 I' mstil l wit hyou , Mr . Brown . 2 MR . BROWN : Okay . I' mthinking . You r Honor , 3 yes . It' s j ust , You r Honor , th e pric e wa s to o high . 4 TH E COURT : Okay , s o yo udi dhav e a chanc e 5 t o tal k bu t yo uhaven' t reache dan yresolutions ? 6 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 7 TH E COURT : Okay , an daccordin g t o th e 8 recor dI hav e s o far , th e civi l penalt ythat' s 9 requeste di nth e Notic e o f Complain t i s $11,000 . I s 1 0 tha t wha t you'r e talkin g abou t whe nyo usa yth e pric e 1 1 i s to o high ? 1 2 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 3 TH E COURT : Okay . Hav e yo uha da chanc e t o 1 4 tal k wit hMr . Camach o recentl yabou t reducin g tha t 1 5 particula r penalty ? 1 6 MR . BROWN : I don' t fee l I shoul dhav e t o 1 7 pa yit . You r Honor . 1 8 TH E COURT : I' msorry . I couldn' t hea r you , 1 9 sir . 2 0 MR . BROWN : I don' t fee l I shoul dhav e t o 2 1 pa yit . You r Honor . 2 2 TH E COURT : I' msorry . I stil l couldn' t 2 3 hea r you . I apparentl yhav e a poo r phon e line , bu t g o 2 4 ahead . 2 5 MR . BROWN : I don' t thin k I shoul dhav e t o Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 pa yit , You r Honor . I fee l I shoul dno t hav e t o pa y 2 it . 3 TH E COURT : Okay , s o you'r e i na positio n 4 wher e you'r e sayin g th e thin g a t leas t righ t no wtha t 5 yo udon' t thin k yo ushoul dpa yanything ; i s tha t 6 right ? 7 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 8 TH E COURT : Okay . 9 Mr . Comacho , let' s tur nt o you , sir . Di d 1 0 yo uhav e a chanc e betwee nNovembe r 22nd , 201 1 an d 1 1 today' s day , Decembe r 7th , 2011 , t o tal k t o Mr . Brow n 1 2 abou t thi s particula r case ? 1 3 MR . COMACHO : Yes , Judge . W e talke dabou t 1 4 th e case , bu t I hav e t o admi t tha t I di dno t ge t int o 1 5 th e merit s o f th e cas e no r di dw e tal k abou t th e 1 6 potentia l settlement . Wha t w e talke dabou t wa s issue s 1 7 concernin g scheduling , discovery , hearin g dates , 1 8 thing s o f tha t nature , an dtha t wa s th e primar yfocu s 1 9 o f m ysid e o f th e conversation . 2 0 An dthe nw e sor t o f go t t o a certai npoin t 2 1 o f understandin g concernin g substantivel ythos e 2 2 aspect s procedurally , an dthe nw e reache dsom e tene t 2 3 o f agreemen t abou t ho w- - abou t thos e thing s suc htha t 2 4 w e coul dcom e t o yo uan dsa ythi s i s wha t w e hav e 2 5 agree dt o i f it' s acceptabl e t o yo uthen , yo uknow , i f Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 yo u orde r i t an dimplemen t it , we'1 1 g o forwar dfro m 2 there . 3 TH E COURT : Okay . Well , wh ydon' t yo ugiv e 4 m e th e highlight s o f tha t particula r procedura l 5 discussio ns o tha t I ca nse e whethe r that' s goin g t o 6 b e workabl e o nm ycalenda r o r not . 7 MR . COMACHO : Okay . 8 TH E COURT : An da t leas t fin d- - now , di d 9 yo u reac han ydiscussio no r resolutio nabou t a 1 0 propose dvenue ? 1 1 MR . COMACHO : Tha t w e di dnot . Firs t we e 1 2 talke dabou t discovery . 1 3 TH E COURT : Okaky . 1 4 MR . COMACHO : W e talke dabou t a t lengt hth e 1 5 discovery . W e agree d- - I state dt o Mr . Brow ntha t I 1 6 di dno t believ e thi s wa s a factuall ycomplicate d 1 7 matte r an dtha t sometime s 6 0 t o 9 0 day s i s a n 1 8 acceptabl e nor mfo r discovery , bu t perhap s 6 0 day s 1 9 woul db e mor e appropriat e unde r thi s circumstance . H e 2 0 agreed , an dw e agree dt o - - w e cam e t o a n 2 1 understandin g tha t startin g o nJanuar y1 i f w e ru nth e 2 2 cloc k fo r 6 0 day s discovery , i t coul db e conclude db y 2 3 th e en do f February . 24 W e the nmove do nt o a hearin g date , an d- - 2 5 TH E COURT : Yeah , I' mgoin g t o sto p yo ua t Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 tha t point . Le t m e as k yo uthi s becaus e thi s i s goin g 2 t o lea dm e bac k t o venu e ultimately , Mr . Camacho . 3 MR . COMACHO : Yes , Judge . 4 TH E COURT : Wha t kin do f witnesse s doe s th e 5 FA Appla na t leas t a t thi s poin t t o call ; ho wman y- - 6 MR . COMACHO : Th e witnesse s tha t woul db e 7 calle dwoul db e predominantl yth e cabi ncre wmember s 8 tha t wer e aboar dth e aircraft , an dthe yar e scattere d 9 aroun dth e country . 1 0 TH E COURT : An dca nyo utel l m e ho wman yo f 1 1 thos e peopl e yo uthin k a t thi s poin t yo uwoul dlik e t o 1 2 identify ? I s i t thre e t o five ? 1 3 MR . COMACHO : Tha t ar e a t leas t tw o tha t 14 woul db e fac t witnesse s tha t woul db e i npositio nt o 1 5 testif yabou t wha t the ysa wand/o r wha t the y 1 6 experience ddirecty . 1 7 TH E COURT : Okay . 1 8 MR . COMACHO : An dthe nI believ e there' s a 1 9 fac t witnes s wh o wa s aboar dth e aircraft . I' mno t 2 0 certai n- - forgiv e me . I didn' t g o throug hth e 2 1 factua l rendition s o f thos e bu t base do nth e polic e 2 2 repor t wh o woul dbe , shal l w e say , disintereste dfac t 2 3 witnesse s tha t wer e aboar dth e aircraft , an dI woul d 24 hav e t o locat e them . I don' t hav e tha t o nth e to p o f 2 5 m yhead . An dtha t woul dconstitut e th e presentatio n Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 o f testimon yevidence . 2 TH E COURT : S o jus t s o tha t I' mclear , 3 you'r e lookin g a t two , possibl ythre e cabi ncre w 4 member s - - 5 MR . COMACHO : Yes . 6 TH E COURT : - - witnesses . Yo uhav e a 7 possibl e one , mayb e more , passenge r witnesse s tha t 8 wer e o nth e airplane ? 9 MR . COMACHO : I thin k there' s jus t on e tha t 1 0 I woul dsee k t o call . 1 1 TH E COURT : An dthe nI kno wbase do nth e 1 2 notic e o f complain t tha t I rea dtha t ther e wa s som e 1 3 polic e contac t onc e th e plan e arrive da t th e gate . 1 4 Ar e yo uplannin g t o cal l an yo f th e arrestin g 1 5 officers ? 1 6 MR . COMACHO : A t thi s juncture , I actuall y 1 7 ha dno t considere dth e arrestin g officer s becaus e the y 1 8 wouldn' t b e fac t witnesse s an dI d o no t kno wtha t th e 1 9 intervie wresulte di nan ykin do f incriminatin g 2 0 statemen t suc htha t th e polic e office r woul dwan t t o 2 1 testif yabou t tha t statement , s o I woul dprobabl ysee k 2 2 t o introduc e th e polic e report . 2 3 TH E COURT : Okay , well , I' mjus t askin g s o I 2 4 know . 2 5 MR . COMACHO : Yeah . M ysens e o f i t a t thi s Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 junctur e i s tha t I reall ya mkin do f vacillatin g abou t 2 tha t particula r aspect . Usuall ywhe n1 cal l polic e 3 officers , they'r e somewha t directl yinvolve di nth e 4 even t o r i nsom e wa yca nlen dsom e additiona l relevan t 5 material . 6 Thi s i s al l after-the-fac t hearsay . I don' t 7 thin k that' s th e bes t evidence , quit e frankly . 8 TH E COURT : It' s jus t a questio nfo r m y- - 9 MR . COMACHO : Yeah . I woul dno t probabl y 1 0 see k t o hav e a polic e office r testif yabou t th e event s 1 1 tha t happene dafte r th e fact . 1 2 TH E COURT : I' mjus t askin g yo ubecaus e I 1 3 hav e t o ge t a sens e o f ho wmuc htim e t o reserv e fo r 1 4 thi s hearing . 1 5 MR . COMACHO : Uh-huh . 1 6 TH E COURT : S o a s I understan dit , a t thi s 1 7 point , th e FA Ai s lookin g a t potentiall ycallin g abou t 1 8 fou r witnesses ? 1 9 MR . COMACHO : Yes . 2 0 TH E COURT : Okay . An dthe nwha t kin do f 2 1 discover yar e yo uthinkin g o f seekin g fro mMr . Brow n 2 2 betwee nno wan dth e tim e o f trial ? Ar e yo uthinkin g 2 3 o f takin g hi s deposition , sendin g hi m 24 interrogatorie s - - 2 5 MR . COMACHO : I woul dsen dhi m- - I' msorry . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 I didn' t mea nt o overste p you . I though t yo uwer e 2 done . 3 TH E COURT : Yes , askin g m e t o produc e 4 documents . Wha t kin do f discover ytool s ar e yo ugoin g 5 t o b e requestin g o f him ? 6 MR . COMACHO : I' mgoin g t o us e a 7 standardize ddiscover yreques t seekin g throug hsimpl e 8 interrogatorie s informatio nconcernin g wha t hi s 9 defense s are , wh o wil l b e th e witnesse s tha t wil l b e 1 0 called , wha t thei r expecte dtestmon yis , an dan y 1 1 document s tha t h e migh t hav e t o suppor t whateve r 1 2 position s h e take s i nrespons e t o th e interrogatories . 1 3 I jus t nee dt o fin dou t who' s goin g t o testif yt o 1 4 what . 1 5 TH E COURT : Okay . 1 6 MR . COMACHO : I' mno t seekin g - - I woul dno t 1 7 See k a t thi s junctur e i nsevera l penalt ycases , 1 8 normall yI d o no t see k t o tak e th e depositio no f a 1 9 Respondent , no t i nthi s kin do f case . 2 0 TH E COURT : Okay . Ca nyo u thin k o f an y 2 1 othe r discovey r tha t yo uwoul dnee dt o tal k abou t 2 2 tdoay ? 2 3 MR . COMACHO : I believ e - - i t i s m ypractic e 24 an dha s bee nfo r th e pas t 3 0 year s tha t o nth e heal s 2 5 o f thos e typ e o f responses , I migh t see k t o submi t a Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 reques t fo r admission s fro mth e responden t dependin g 2 o nwha t kin do f response s I ge t t o th e 3 interrogatories . 4 TH E COURT : Okay . An di nterm s o f venue , 5 I' mgoin g t o tur nbac k t o venue . D o yo uhav e an y 6 proffe r o f venu e tha t th e FAAwoul dlik e t o suggest ? 7 MR . COMACHO : Th e event s happened , 8 obviously , whil e th e aircraf t wa s airborne , s o m y 9 sens e o f i t i s tha t whe nth e aircraf t wa s stoppe dan d 1 0 h e deplane dan dwa s take nint o custod yi nSt . Louis , 1 1 tha t tha t woul db e - - tha t fo r me , give nwher e w e ar e 1 2 an dtha t thi s i s ho ww e go t th e jurisdictio nher e i n 1 3 thi s offic e fo r prosecutin g thi s cas e tha t that' s 1 4 wher e th e hearin g shoul db e held . 1 5 I ncivi l penalt ycase s traditionally , I hav e 1 6 sough t t o hav e tha t occur , th e venu e se t a t th e poin t 1 7 wher e th e individua l i s take nof f th e aircraf t fo r an y 1 8 numbe r o f reasons . I nsom e instance s th e drivin g 1 9 forc e behin dtha t i s th e fac t tha t th e polic e officer s 2 0 d o obtai nsom e kin do f statement s agains t interes t 2 1 and/o r corroboratin g supportin g evicence , an dthe y 2 2 would l readil yavailabl e t o testify . 2 3 Bu t i naddition , i t i s physciall ylocate d 2 4 withi nou r centra l regio nwher e ou r office s ar e 2 5 located . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n (202 ) 628-488 8

### 2 3

1 TH E COURT : Wher e i s you r offic e located , 2 sir ? 3 MR . COMACHO : W e ar e locate di nKansa s City , 4 Missouri , Judge . 5 TH E COURT ; Andho wfa r fromSt . Louis , 6 Missour i d o yo u work ? 7 MR . COMACHO : It' s a fou r and-a-hal f hou r 8 drive . 9 TH E COURT : A t thi s curren t time , ar e yo u 1 0 awar e o f th e physica l locatio no f anyo f th e cabi n 1 1 cre wo r passenge r witnes s tha t yo uar e thinkin g o f 1 2 calling ? 1 3 MR . COMACHO : I woul dno t b e withou t takin g 1 4 a loo k a t th e polic e report , an dI canno t b e 1 5 responsiv e withou t shootin g fromth e hip , andI don' t 1 6 hav e tha t informatio nreadil yavailabl e t o me . 1 7 TH E COURT : Okay . Ho wlong base do nyou r 1 8 bes t estimat e d o yo uthin k thi s tria l wil l nee dt o 1 9 tak e give nth e fac t tha t yo uhav e identifie da minimum 2 0 o f thre e t o fou r witnesse s andtha t Mr . Brow nwoul d 2 1 als o b e testifying ? 2 2 MR . COMACHO : On e busines s day , les s tha no n 2 3 ful l busines s day . I woul db e surprise di f i t wen t a n 2 4 entir e buisnes s day . 2 5 TH E COURT : Trial s hav e bee nsurprisin g fo r Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 man yreasons . 2 MR . COMACHO : I understand . I ca npu t si x 3 witnesse s o ni nfou r hours , s o I ca nsubmi t 16/ 2 0 4 exhibit s withi ntha t perio do f time . Factually , I' m 5 jus t goin g o nmyexperience , s o I' msuggestin g t o you , 6 Judge , tha t I ca nge t th e jo bdone . Bu t I coul dd o 7 that . I nles s tha nfou r hours , I coul dge t thes e 8 witnesse s o nan dI don' t thin k there' s ver yman y 9 document s tha t nee dt o b e submitte di nsuppor t o f 1 0 this , bu t i nan yeven t tha t woul db e m yver ybes t 1 1 estimate . 1 2 TH E COURT : Okay . Than k you . Anythin g els e 1 3 tha t you' dlik e t o sa yo nbehal f o f you r clien t befor e 1 4 I tur nt o Mr . Brown ? 1 5 MR . COMACHO : Becaus e - - an dyo uraise da 1 6 goo dissue , an dtha t i s wit hregar dt o potentia l 1 7 settlement . I had , t o b e honest , I'v e no wcom e t o se e 1 8 an dunderstan dbette r tha t Mr . Brow nwork s i nth e 1 9 evenings . I'v e lef t variou s voic e mai l message s fo r 2 0 hi mi nth e pas t an dtrie dt o reac hhi mclose r t o wha t 2 1 I though t woul db e afte r norma l wor k hour s s o tha t 2 2 ther e wouldn' t b e a potentia l conflic t fo r him . 2 3 I'v e go t a listin g o f differen t date s an d 24 lef t voic e mai l message s fo r him , an dI no wse e tha t 2 5 o non e o f thos e occasion s I eve nreache dhi mwhil e h e Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 8

### 2 5

1 wa s a t work . 2 Bu t long andshor t i s I've no t reall ysa t 3 dow nwit hhi m on eo non edurin g a perio do f tim e whe n 4 h e wa s no t a t wor k t o discus s th e potentia l settlemen t 5 o f th e case . 6 However , todayI hear dtha t hi s positio n 7 i s - - o r a t leas t i t appear s a t thi s poin t tha t hi s 8 positio ni s tha t h e believe s h e shoul dno t b e hel d 9 responsibl e fo r th e action s a s allege di nth e 1 0 complaint . 1 1 Yo uknow , h e andI ca ntal k abou t tha t and 1 2 w e ca nperhap s wor k ou r wa ythroug ht o som e resolutio n 1 3 notwithstandin g tha t currentl ystate dposition . S o 1 4 tha t ha s no t ye t bee nexplored . 1 5 I woul dsaytha t I think - - I no t think , I 1 6 know , I amdut yboun dt o a t leas t explor e tha t wit h 1 7 hi m

an dse e i f w e ca nreac hsom e resolution . 1 8 Certainl yit' s goin g t o b e mor e cos t effectiv e fo r 1 9 everybody , bu t mor e importantly , sometime s th e partie s 2 0 ca njus t ge t ther e o nthei r own . 

### 2 1 TH E COURT : Right . I understan dtha t an d 2 2 I' mcertainl ygoin g t o giv e yo uandMr . Brow nampl e 2 3 opportunit yt o d o tha t afte r thi s phon e cal l i s 2 4 Concluded . 2 5 Mr . Brown , I' mgoin g t o tur nt o yo unext . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 sir . 2 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 3 TH E COURT : You'v e hear dsom e o f th e 4 question s tha t I'v e aske dMr . Comacho , an dI' mgoin g 5 t o b e askin g th e sam e question s o f you . S o m yfirs t 6 questio nt o yo ui s ho wman ywitnesse s d o yo uthin k 7 you'r e plannin g t o cal l o nyou r ow nbehal f i n 8 challengin g thi s notic e o f complaint ? 9 MR . BROWN : I' mth e onl ywitness . You r 1 0 Honor . 1 1 TH E COURT : S o you'l l b e callin g yourself . 1 2 MR . BROWN : Right . 1 3 TH E COURT : Ho wlon g d o yo uthin k i t woul d 1 4 tak e yo ut o comfortabl ytal k abou t wha t happene do n 1 5 th e plan e tha t lea dt o yo ugettin g thi s kin do f 1 6 complain t filed ? D o yo uthin k i t woul dtak e 1 0 1 7 minutes , a nhour , tw o hours ? Ho wlon g d o yo uthin k i t 1 8 woul dtak e t o tel l you r sid e o f th e story ? 1 9 MR . BROWN : Abou t 1 0 minutes . You r Honor . 2 0 TH E COURT : Okay . I f yo urepresen t yoursel f 2 1 a s yo usa yyo uar e goin g to , i t woul db e u p t o yo ut o 2 2 cross-examin e witnesse s the ycal l t o - - 2 3 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 24 TH E COURT : - - t o describ e wha t the y 2 5 perceive dhappene do nth e plan e rid e tha t resulte di n Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 thi s complaint . An dcross-examinatio ni s ofte nmor e 2 difficul t tha ni t look s whe nyo use e i t o nT V o r i n 3 th e movies . 4 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 5 TH E COURT : It' s no t impossibl e fo r someon e 6 wh o doesn' t hav e trainin g suc ha s yoursel f t o engag e 7 i ncross-examination , bu t i t take s a lo t o f 8 preparation . 9 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 0 TH E COURT : Ho wman yquestion s d o yo uthin k 1 1 yo u migh t hav e t o as k thes e folk s tha t Mr . Camach o ha s 1 2 generall yidentified , thes e tw o member s an dthi s 1 3 passenger ? Hav e yo ugive nan ythough t t o that ? 1 4 MR . BROWN : It' s al l base do nth e evidenc e 1 5 You r Honor . Ther e won' t b e an yquestions . 1 6 TH E COURT : Well , yo uhav e a righ t t o as k 1 7 thes e folk s question s abou t thei r testimony . S o yo u 1 8 ma ywan t t o thin k abou t tha t a littl e bit . It' s a n 1 9 opportunit yfo r yo ut o explor e th e evidenc e bein g 2 0 presente dt o thi s Court , s o it'l l b e somethin g fo r yo u 2 1 t o b e workin g o nbetwee nno wan dwhateve r tria l dat e 2 2 w e set . 2 3 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 24 TH E COURT : Now , whe nI tal k abou t 2 5 discovery , d o yo ukno wwha t I' mtalkin g about ? Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 MR . BROWN : No , You r Honor . I'v e onl ysee n 2 i t o ntelevision . 3 TH E COURT : Le t m e giv e yo ua brie f 4 explanation . I nth e tim e perio dbetwee nno wan dth e 5 actua l hearin g o r tria l i f yo uwan t t o us e tha t term , 6 there' s a perio do f tim e whe nth e partie s wor k 7 togethe r an dthe ytr yan dlear nabou t eac hother' s 8 positio nan dlear nabou t th e strength s an dweakenesse s 9 o f th e case . 1 0 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 1 TH E COURT : An dw e cal l tha t perio do f tim e 1 2 th e discover yperiod , an dthat' s whe nyo uwoul dhav e a 1 3 chanc e t o discove r mor e informatio nfro mMr . Camach o 1 4 abou t hi s sid e o f th e cas e jus t a s Mr . Camach o woul d 1 5 hav e a nopportunit yt o lear nmor e abou t you r sid e o f 1 6 th e case . S o you'r e discoverin g thing s abou t eac h 1 7 others ' perceptions . 1 8 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 9 TH E COURT : Mr . Camach o ha s sai dtha t h e 2 0 think s i t wil l tak e betwee n6 0an d9 0 day s t o 2 1 comfortabl ydiscove r wha t h e need s t o kno wfro myo ut o 2 2 hel p hi mprepar e fo r trial , an di norde r t o discove r 2 3 mor e informatio nfro myou , h e ha s talke da littl e bi t 24 abou t sendin g yo uwhat' s calle dinterrogatorie s whic h 2 5 i s a ver yfanc ynam e fo r writte nquestions . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 2 9

1 H e want s t o sendyo u a serie s o f writte n 2 question s tha t as k yo u t o think ver ycarefull yabou t 3 wha t happene dandthe nt o repl yi ndetai l abou t wha t 4 yo uthin k o r recal l happenin g o nth e plane . 5 Ther e ar e tim e limit s fo r yo ut o answe r 6 thes e kind s o f questions . I f yo udon' t answe r the m 7 completely , h e ca nthn e as k th e Cour t t o dee mcertai n 8 facts , certai npiece s o f information , a s admitte dby 9 yo u andtha t mean s tha t you , basically , don' t disput e 1 0 hi s perceptio no f wha t happened . 1 1 S o it' s ver yimportan t i f Mr . Camach o send s 1 2 yo u thes e writte nquetion s tha t yo uresponden t an d 1 3 answe r themclearl yandcompletely . Doe s tha t mak e 1 4 sens e t o you ? 1 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 6 TH E COURT : Okay . Yo uals o hav e a righ t t o 1 7 engag e i na learnin g proces s wit hMr . Camach o abou t 1 8 hi s cas e andabou t hi s perceptions , andther e ar e many 1 9 diffferen t tool s tha t yo u coul dutiliz e prio r t o th e 2 0 hearin g dat e t o lear nmore . Bu t becaus e you'r e 2 1 representin g yourself , tha t mean s tha t yo uhav e t o pu t 2 2 o nyou r attorne yha t andd o a lo t o f reserch , I think , 2 3 i norde r t o mak e sur e tha t yo u tak e advantag e o f thos e 2 4 opportunities . 2 5 On e o f th e thing s tha t yo uca ndo , o f Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 course , i s tha t yo uca nsen dwritte nquestion s t o Mr . 2 Camacho' s witnesse s throug hMr . Camacho . Yo uca n 3 actuall ydepos e hi s witnesses , an dtha t mean s tha t yo u 4 woul dhir e a cour t reporte r lik e th e on e w e hav e 5 wokrin g o nthi s conferenc e toda yan dse t u p a tim e an d 6 a plac e that' s mutuall yconvenient , hopefully , wher e 7 thos e witnesse s woul dappea r an dyo ucoul das k the m 8 question s an dhav e a court-reporte drecord . That' s 9 ver ycomplicate dt o do , bu t it' s on e o f th e tool s tha t 1 0 yo uhav e availabl e t o you . 1 1 Ther e ar e othe r way s t o participat e i n 1 2 discovery . Yo uca nd o man ydifferen t things , an dman y 1 3 o f the mar e identifie di nou r cod e o f Federa l 1 4 regulation s whic hi s th e primar ysourc e o f guidanc e 1 5 tha t w e us e whe nw e loo k a t ho wt o g o abou t gettin g 1 6 read yfo r a trial . D o yo uhav e a la wlibrar ynea r 1 7 you r home ? 1 8 MR . BROWN : I don' t kno wo f on e i nth e 1 9 vicinity . You r Honor . 2 0 TH E COURT : Okay . I' mno t quit e familia r 2 1 wit hMelbourne , Florida . Wha t i s th e nex t bigges t 2 2 cit ynea r Melbourne , Florida ? 2 3 MR . BROWN : Orlando , Florida , You r Honor . 2 4 TH E COURT : Okay . Ho wfa r awa yi s i t b y 2 5 car ? Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n (202 ) 628-488 83 1

1 MR . BROWN : Abou t 8 0 miles . You r Honor . 2 TH E COURT : Okay , whe nyo ug o t o wor k a t 3 night , ar e yo udrivin g toward s Orlando , Florida , o r 4 awa yfro mit ? 5 MR . BROWN : I recentl ymoved . You r Honor , s o 6 I wouldn' t b e drivin g - - I use dt o driv e a t m y 7 previou s address , i t use dt o tak e m e abou t a nhou r 8 and-a-half . 9 TH E COURT : Okay . Mayb e I aske dth e 1 0 questio ninartfully . Ar e yo ucurrentl ylivin g an d 1 1 workin g i nMelbourne , Florid a - - 1 2 MR . BROWN : That' s correct . 1 3 TH E COURT : O r i s you r jo blocate d 1 4 elsewhere ? 1 5 MR . BROWN : M yjo bi s i nMelbourne , Florida , 1 6 You r Honor . 1 7 TH E COURT : Okay . Ar e yo uabl e t o driv e a 1 8 ca r a t thi s point , o r d o yo uno t hav e a license ? 1 9 MR . BROWN : I hav e a car , You r Honor . 2 0 TH E COURT : Okay . D o yo uals o hav e a 2 1 driver' s license ? 2 2 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 3 TH E COURT : Okay . I nOrlando , Florida , I 24 woul dsuspec t tha t the yhav e a courthouse , an di t ma y 2 5 b e tha t yo uhav e a courthous e i nMelbourn e a s well . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 I f yo ug o o nlin e an dGoogl e la wlibrar you t o f 2 Melbourne , Florida , you'l l fin dou t prett yquickly . 3 D o yo uhav e acces s t o th e compute r an dt o 4 th e internet ? 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 6 TH E COURT : Okay . Well , tha t migh t mak e 7 thing s ver yeas yfo r you . Th e reaso nI thin k tha t i t 8 woul db e helpfu l fo r yo ut o g o t o a la wlibrar yi s 9 becaus e the nyo ucoul dhav e a libraria nhel p yo ufin d 1 0 differen t rule s an dregulation s tha t yo ucoul drea d 1 1 tha t woul dprovid e yo usom e guidanc e abou t differen t 1 2 discover ytool s tha t yo ucoul dpotentiall yutilize . 1 3 D o yo uhav e a pe nan dpape r wit hyo ub yan y 1 4 chance ? 1 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 6 TH E COURT : Okay . I' mgoin g t o giv e yo u 1 7 what' s calle da lega l citation , an dthi s wil l ge t yo u 1 8 started . Yo uca neithe r g o t o a la wlibrar yi n 1 9 person , yo ucoul dals o Googl e this . Thi s citatio ni s 2 0 t o a volum e o f a boo k an dthe na chapte r an dsectio n 2 1 i na la wbook . 2 2 I t start s of f wit ha number . Th e numbe r i s 2 3 49 , an dth e letter s C a s i ncat , F a s i nFrank , Ra s 2 4 i nRobert , an dthe nth e number s ar e 386.38 . 2 5 An dthe nyo uca nrea dsevera l page s afte r Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 that , s o i t wil l b e 4 9 C.F.R . 386.3 8 - 4 9 C.F.R . 2 386.53 . That' s th e portio no f th e Cod e o f Federa l 3 Regulatio nwhic hi s wha t C.F.R . stand s fo r tha t talk s 4 abou t al l th e differen t discover ytool s tha t ar e 5 availabl e t o bot hyo uan dMr . Camach o t o utiliz e t o 6 ge t read yfo r trial . 7 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 8 TH E COURT : An di f yo uhav e troubl e 9 readin g - - sometime s peopl e d o - - tak e a friend , o r 1 0 hav e a frien drea di t ove r wit hyou . It' s no t to o 1 1 muc hreading , an di t migh t prov e t o b e helpful . 1 2 Ala wlibraria ncoul dals o b e helpful , I 1 3 think , in

- givin g yo usom e genera l understandin g abou t 1 4 wha t you'r e reading . 1 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 6 TH E COURT : Okay . Now , on e o f th e thing s 1 7 tha t yo uals o wan t t o reaa di s th e Notic e o f Complain t 1 8 tha t th e FA Aha s sen t t o yo utha t basicall ytalk s 1 9 abou t wha t the ythin k happene do nth e plan e tha t yo u 2 0 too k whe nyo ufle wo nSouthwes t Airline s o no r befor e 2 1 Decembe r 6th , 2010 . 2 2 An don e o f th e thin g stha t the ysa yi nher e 2 3 i s tha t - - an dthi s i s o npag e thre e i f yo ug o t o th e 24 complain t - - i s tha t yo uviolate da certai nlaw , a 2 5 safet ylaw , an dthe ycal l i t Sectio n121.580 . The y Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 hav e tha t tha t wa s a la wtha t yo uviolate daccordin g 2 t o wha t the ythin k happened . 3 S o yo uwan t t o als o loo k u p tha t particula r 4 rule . An dwha t I' mgoin g t o d o - - sometime s th e FAA 5 provide s a co p o f tha t la wi nth e Notic e o f Complaint , 6 an dsometime s the yd o not . S o I' mjus t takin g a look , 7 an di t doesn' t loo k lik e i t did . 8 Mr . Camacho , hello ? 9 MR . COMACHO : I apologize . I ha dyo uo n 1 0 mut e here . G o ahead . 1 1 TH E COURT : Mr . Camacho . 1 2 MR . COMACHO : Y e s , Judge . 1 3 TH E COURT : I hav e wha t look s lik e t o b e a 1 4 partia l citation . Ca nyo utel l m e th e ful l citatio n 1 5 fo r 121580 ? 1 6 MR . COMACHO : Whe nyo utel l me , ar e yo u 1 7 talkin g abou t th e citatio npe r sa yi nterm s o f wher e 1 8 i t come s fro mo r wha t i t reads ? 1 9 TH E COURT : I don' t hav e a complet e lega l 2 0 citatio nt o a sectio no f th e regulation s tha t yo usa y 2 1 tha t Mr . Brow nviolated , s o it' s impossibl e fo r m e t o 2 2 tel l hi mho wt o loo k i t u p i f I don' t kno wwher e i t 2 3 come s from . 2 4 MR . COMACHO : Understood , Judge . 2 5 TH E COURT : S o - - Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 MR . COMACHO : Le t m e loo k a t th e book . I 2 se e wha t you'r e saying . M yapologies . I thin k w e pu t 3 i t i nhi s notice s originall yan dshoul dhav e bee n 4 transferre dove r i nth e sam e manne r whe nmystaf f 5 change dth e notic e t o a complaint . Giv e m e on e 6 second , please . 7 TH E COURT : Okay . Than k you . 8 MR . COMACHO : Than k you . I wan t t o sa y4 9 9 C.F.R . Sectio n121.580 , bu t somethin g i nm yhea dtell s 1 0 m e tha t ma yb e correct . I' mstrugglin g wit ha s I' m 1 1 talkin g t o yo uwit hth e headse t tha t th e wire' s 1 2 gettin g caugh t an dI - - it' s 1 4 C.F.R. , Judge . I 1 3 apologize . 1 4 C.F.R . 121.580 , 1 4 C.F.R . 1 4 TH E COURT : Okay , the nI' mi nth e wron g - - 1 5 Okay . The nI nee dt o mak e som e change s to o sinc e I'v e 1 6 bee nusin g 4 9 C.F.R . an dI shoul dhav e bee nusin g 1 4 1 7 C.F.R . 1 8 So , Mr . Brown , I' mgoin g t o giv e yo ua 1 9 differen t subsectio nfo r lookin g a t th e rules , an dI 2 0 apologize . I hav e a bunc ho f differen t la wbook s i n 2 1 fron t o f me , an dI wa s jus t referrin g t o th e wron g 2 2 one . 2 3 MR . BROWN : Excus e me . You r Honor . I hav e 24 tha t numbe r also . You r Honor . 2 5 TH E COURT : Okay . Well , le t m e giv e yo uth e Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 3 6

1 tw o bes t C.F.R.' s t o loo k at . S o numbe r 1 4 i s th e 2 volum e o f th e book . C.F.R . stand s fo r Cod e o f Federa l 3 Regulation , Chapte r 121 , sectio n5 0 - - 58 0 i s th e law 4 tha t th e FA

Asay s tha t yo u violated . An dyou'l l wan t 5 t o loo k i t u p andrea di t andse e wha t i t says . 6 There' s on e tha t talk s abou t discover yandI 7 gav e yo uth e wron g rul e becaus e I wa s lookin g a t th e 8 wron g book , an dI apologize . It' s 1 4 C.F.R . 13.220 , 9 andthe nyo ushoul drea dal l o f th e section s afte r 1 0 tha t throug h1 4 C.F.R . 13.231 , andthe nyo ushoul d 1 1 rea dal l o f th e section s afte r tha t throug h1 4 C.F.R . 1 2 13.231 . Thos e ar e th e discover yan dhearin g section s 1 3 tha t yo uwan t t o tak e a loo k at . 1 4 Wha t I' mgoin g t o do , becaus e it' s almos t 1 5 bee na nhour , i s I' mgoin g t o se t u p a thir d 1 6 litigatio nschedulin g conferenc e s o tha t w e ca n 1 7 finaliz e som e details . 1 8 Prio r t o that , Mr . Brown , I nee dt o hav e yo u 1 9 fil e a writte nanswe r t o th e Notic e o f Complaint . An d 2 0 I als o wan t t o hav e yo u an dMr . Camach o tal k privatel y 2 1 wit heac hothe r abou t thi s cas e whic hi s par t o f wha t 2 2 you r attorne ywoul dd o i f yo uha da nattorney , an d 2 3 tal k abou t th e pro s andth e cons , th e strength s and 2 4 th e weaknesse s t o se e i f there' s a possibilit yo f 2 5 settlement . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 3 7

1 Now , I've hear dyo usaytha t yo udon' t think 2 tha t yo u shoul dhav e t o pa yanything , andthat' s 3 certainl yyou r pla nA . Everybodyha s a pla nA , and 4 tha t sound s lik e pla nAt o m e fo r you . Yo ushoul d 5 als o b e lookin g a t pla nB andpla nC jus t i ncas e yo u 6 don' t ge t th e idea l o f wha t yo uwant . 7 I f th e FA Agoe s t o tria l andprove s it s 8 case , you'r e lookin g a t bein g fined , s o ther e ma ybe , 9 i f yo uthin k abou t it , ther e ma yb e som e wiggl e roo m 1 0 fo r yo ubetwee nzer o and$11,000 . I' mno t sayin g tha t 1 1 yo u hav e t o settle . Yo ucertainl yar e no t require dt o 1 2 b

yanymeans , bu t it' s somethin g tha t you r attorne yi f 1 3 yo uha don e woul db e lookin g a t andcounselin g yo u 1 4 abou t becaus e there' s a lo t o f roo mbetwee nzer o and 1 5 $11,000 . 1 6 An dwhe nyo u thin k abou t settlement , an dyo u 1 7 ca ntal k t o you r friend s andsomeon e whos e opinio nyo u 1 8 trus t i f you'r e no t seein g counsel , ther e ar e thing s 1 9 tha t on e typicall ywil l conside r i ndiscussin g 2 0 settlement . 2 1 On e ofte nwil l weig hth e cos t o f actuall y 2 2 goin g t o tria l agains t th e cos t o f settling . S o fo r 2 3 example , let' s assum e jus t fo r th e sak e o f argumen t 

### 2 4 tha t I se t thi s cas e i nSt . Louis , Missouri , lik e th e 2 5 FA

Aattorne yha s requested . Yo umigh t wan t t o thin k

Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 3 .

1 abou t ho wmuc hi t woul dcos t yo ut o trave l from 2 Melbourne , Florida , t o St . Louis , Missouri , andback , 3 andsaywell , yo uknow , mayb e I' db e willin g t o pa yX 4 amoun t becaus e that' s th e amoun t I woul dpa yt o fl yt o 5 andfro mth e trial . 6 O r yo u migh t thin k about , oh , ho wmuc hwor k 7 yo uwoul dlose , fo r example , andsa yyo uknow , I' m 8 goin g t o los e tw o o r thre e day s o f work . Tha t woul d 9 cos t m e Xamount , s o I woul db e willin g t o pa yX 1 0 amoun t no t t o hav e t o go , yo u know . Thos e ar e th e 1 1 kind s o f thing s tha t peopl e thin k abou t whe nthe y 1 2 think abou t settlin g a case . 1 3 That' s no t al l tha t yo uwoul dnee dt o thin k 1 4 about . Yo u ca nmeasur e al l kind s o f differen t thing s 1 5 base do nwha t i s importan t t o you . Bu t thos e ar e jus t 1 6 som e examples , andI suspec t tha t you'v e bee ni nmany 1 7 differen t situation s a s a nadul t wher e yo uhav e t o 1 8 weig handmeasur e what' s importan t t o yo uan dwha t yo u 1 9 wan t t o spen dtime andmone yon . 2 0 So , wha t I' mgoin g t o d o i s I' mgoin g t o as k 2 1 th e tw o o f yo u t o tak e a loo k a t you r calendars , and 2 2 I' m

goin g t o se t up a thir dlitigatio nschedulin g 2 3 conferenc e fo r furthe r discussio no f settin g al l th e 2 4 du e date s fo r bot hdiscover ycutof f andfo r settin g a 2 5 tria l date . An da t tha t point , we'r e als o goin g t o Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 3 9

1 tal kabou t potentiall ywhere . 2 An dMr . Brown , I thin kI sa wsomethin g i na n 3 earlie r piec e o f material . I t wa s i nyou r reques t fo r 4 hearin g wher e yo uwante dt o hav e th e hearin g hel di n 5 Orlando , Florida . 6 Well , clearl yI hav e tw o differen t 7 viewpoint s abou t wher e th e hearin g shoul db e held , an d 8 on e o f th e thing s tha t I nee dt o loo ka t i f there' s a 9 disput e abou t th e locatio no f th e hearin g i s wher e th e 1 0 majorit yo f witnesse s ar e goin g t o be , ho wmuc hi t 1 1 woul dcos t t o brin g i nwitnesse s wh o ar e ou t o f town , 1 2 ho wmuc hi t woul dcos t fo r th e partie s t o trave l i f 1 3 the ynee dt o trave l awa yfro m home , ho wlon g th e tria l 1 4 wil l take , an ds o forth . S o whe nw e tal kagain , we'l l 1 5 b e discussin g par t o f that . 1 6 Lookin g a t you r calendar , an dI' mgoin g t o 1 7 star t wit hyo uMr . Brow nsinc e yo uhav e a nigh t shif t 1 8 tha t yo ug o to , ho wlon g d o yo uthin ki t wil l tak e yo u 1 9 t o fil e a writte nanswe r answerin g eac han dever ypar t 2 0 o f th e Notic e o f Complain t whic hI presum e yo ud o 2 1 have . Mayb e that' s a poo r assumption . D o yo ustil l 2 2 hav e a cop yo f th e Notic e o f Complain t eithe r i n 2 3 Melbourne , Florid a o r i nyou r othe r locatio ni n 2 4 Orlando , Florida ? 2 5 MR . BROWN : I nOrlando , Florida , You r Honor . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 4 0

1 TH E COURT : Okay . Ho wlong d o yo uthink i t 2 wil l tak e yo u t o writ e ou t a respons e t o tha t notic e 3 o f complaint ? 4 MR . BROWN : A s soo na s I ge t it , I wil l 5 writ e it . You r Honor . 6 TH E COURT : Okay , whe nar e yo unex t plannin g 7 t o g o t o Orlando , Florida ? 8 MR . BROWN : I ca ng o nex t week . You r Honor . 9 TH E COURT : I s i t possibl e fo r someon e a t 1 0 you r ol dOrlando , Florid a addres s t o mai l th e Notic e 1 1 o f Complain t t o yo u s o tha t yo uca nge t i t faste r tha n 1 2 that ? 1 3 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 4 TH E COURT : Okay . Ca nyo utel l m e jus t s o 1 5 tha t I kno wfo r futur e referenc e whethe r yo uhav e a 1 6 GE D O r a hig hschoo l diploma ? 1 7 MR . BROWN : I hav e a nassociate' s degree , 1 8 You r Honor . 1 9 TH E COURT : Okay . Doe s tha t mea ntha t yo u 2 0 als o hav e a GE D an do r a hig hschoo l diploma . 2 1 MR . BROWN : Sorry , You r Honor . Yes . I hav e 2 2 a hig hschoo l diploma , You r Honor . 2 3 TH E COURT : Okay . An dwhat' s you r associat e 2 4 degre e in , sir ? 2 5 MR . BROWN : Respirator ytherapy . You r Honor . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 TH E COURT : I' msorry . What ? 2 MR . BROWN : Respirator ytherapy . You r Honor . 3 TH E COURT : Okay . D o yo uhav e th e abilit y 4 t o rea dan dunderstan dsom e comple xmateria l i t sound s 5 like ? 6 MR . BROWN : Somewhat , You r Honor . 7 TH E COURT : Okay . I nthi s complain t whic h 8 i s thre e page s long , yo uwil l se e tha t ther e i s a 9 sectio non e an dit' s identifie db ya Roma nnumera l on e 1 0 o npag e one , o nsectio ntw o whic hi s identifie db ya 1 1 Roma nnumera l tw o o npag e one , an da sectio nthree , 1 2 identifie db yroma nnumera l thre e o npag e three . 1 3 Typicall ywhe na perso ndoe s a forma l 1 4 writte nanswe r t o a complaint , the yfollo wth e forma t 1 5 o f th e complain t ver yclosely , an ds o you r answe r wil l 1 6 basicall ysa yanswe r t o complaint , that' s you r title , 1 7 an dthe nyou'l l sa yparagrap hone , an dthe nyo uanswe r 1 8 eac han dever yallegatio nunde r paragrap hroma n 1 9 numera l one . 2 0 Th e sam e i s tru e fo r paragrap hroma nnumera l 2 1 two . Yo uanswe r - - s o yo uadmi t th e paragraph , yo u 2 2 den yit , yo uadmi t an dexplain , yo uden yan dexplain . 2 3 Yo uma ysa yyo udon' t hav e enoug hinformatio nt o say , 24 bu t i t al l ha s t o b e don e i ngoo dfaith . Yo ucan' t 2 5 jus t den yeverythin g a s i f that' s th e onl yanswe r yo u Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 have . Yo uhav e t o b e ver yspecifi c an dtel l u s 2 specificall ywha t i t i s tha t yo uagre e with , wha t i t 3 i s tha t yo udisagre e with , an dwh yyo udisagre e wit h 4 it . Doe s tha t mak e sense ? 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . Di dth e Cour t 6 receiv e th e previou s on e I sent , o r d o I hav e t o sen d 7 anothe r one , You r Honor ? 8 TH E COURT : I didn' t receiv e an yanswe r fro m 9 yo ua t all . Th e onl ythin g I receive dfro myo uwa s 1 0 sen t t o m e b yth e FA Awhic hi s a one-pag e par t o f a 1 1 documen t tha t say s wit ha chec k mar k i na chec k bo x 1 2 tha t yo ureques t tha t a hearin g b e hel di nOrlando , 1 3 Florida . I didn' t receiv e anythin g else . 1 4 MR . BROWN : Ma yI as k yo ua question . You r 1 5 Honor ? 1 6 TH E COURT : Sure . 1 7 MR . BROWN : Ar e yo usuppose dt o receiv e al l 1 8 o f th e informatio ntha t we'v e - - tha t m e an dMr . 1 9 Camach o hav e exchange dbetwee neac hother . You r Honor ? 2 0 TH E COURT : No . Th e shor t answe r t o tha t i s 2 1 no . 2 2 MR . BROWN : Okay . 2 3 TH E COURT : Ther e i s a stron g emphasi s i n 2 4 al l litigatio nI thin k t o allo wth e partie s th e 2 5 freedo mt o exchang e a variet yo f differen t letters . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 emails , phon e calls , an ddocument s withou t eve r th e 2 Cour t knowing . 3 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 4 TH E COURT : An dpar t o f tha t i s t o allo wyo u 5 t o engag e i nfre e an dfran k settlemen t negotiation s 6 withou t fea r o f havin g thos e negotiation s reporte dt o 7 th e Court . 8 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 9 TH E COURT : S o th e answe r i s n o I woul dno t 1 0 hav e receive dthat , an dth e FA Ai s no t suppose dt o b e 1 1 sendin g m e everything . 1 2 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 3 MR . COMACHO : You r Honor , ma yI as k tha t yo u 1 4 explai nabou t th e distinctio nbetwee nthos e typ e o f 1 5 document s an ddiscovery ? 1 6 TH E COURT : I woul db e happ yto . 1 7 Mr . Brown . 1 8 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 9 TH E COURT : Th e sam e i s tru e i nman y 2 0 respect s fo r discovery . Thi s Cour t doe s no t overse e 2 1 discover yunles s ther e i s a complain t b ya party . 2 2 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 3 TH E COURT : S o yo uca nexchang e discover y 24 document s withou t eve r ccin g m e o nan yo f it . Th e 2 5 cavea t wit hthat , however , i s wha t yo uexchang e durin g Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 th e discover yperio do na forma l basi s ca nb e utilize d 2 agains t a part ydurin g trial . 3 S o yo uhav e t o b e ver ycarefu l abou t makin g 4 sur e tha t i f yo uar e doin g settlemen t negotiation s 5 afte r I' minvolved , an dI' mclearl yinvolve da t thi s 6 point , tha t whe nyou'r e engage di nsettlemen t 7 negotiation s tha t yo uar e ver yclea r wit hth e opposin g 8 part ytha t you'r e no t engage di na discover yproces s 9 a t th e sam e time . 1 0 S o fo r example , yo ucoul dcal l Mr . Camach o 1 1 u p an dsa yI' dlik e t o tal k abou t settlement , s o thi s 1 2 i s goin g t o b e of f th e record . An dthe nth e tw o o f 1 3 yo utal k an dyo uexchang e information , an dlet' s sa y 1 4 tha t yo udon' t lik e th e offe r tha t Mr . Camach o say s i s 1 5 hi s botto mline . 1 6 Th e nex t tim e yo ucal l Mr . Camacho , yo uca n 1 7 sa ylet' s tal k abou t discovery , an da t tha t poin t 1 8 whateve r you'r e sayin g i s par t o f you r discover y 1 9 recor dbetwee neac hothe r s o you'r e goin g t o b e a 2 0 littl e mor e carefu l abou t what' s bein g sai dan dwhat' s 2 1 bein g exchanged . Doe s tha t mak e sens e t o you , Mr . 2 2 Brown ? 2 3 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 24 TH E COURT : Okay . Mr . Camacho , woul dyo u 2 5 lik e t o ad do r clarif yt o that ? Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 4 5

1 MR . COMACHO : No , You r Honor . I think tha t 2 ther e i s usuall ya misconceptio neve namon g practicin g 3 attorney s tha t either , one , a cop yo f th e discover y 4 itsel f and/o r th e answer s withou t anyenclosure s ar e 5 provide dt o th e Judge , andI thin k i t wil l var yfro m 6 particula r - - no t particula r Judg e bu t th e particula r 7 jurisdiction , whethe r we'r e i nfron t o f NTSB , MSPB , 8 EEOC , here , th e Departmen t o f Transportatio no f 9 hearings , etcetera . 1 0 Usuall ya polic yi s se t tha t judge s d o o r d o 1 1 no t wan t t o hav e copie s fo r th e record , an dthat' s why 1 2 I wante dt o as k yo u t o pleas e clarif ytha t fo r him . 1 3 TH E COURT : Well , I thin k we'r e gettin g int o 1 4 somethin g a littl e different . 1 5 Mr . Brown , ther e ar e manydifferen t Federa l 1 6 agencie s tha t operat e a s th e judicator ybodies , th e 1 7 Departmen t o f Transportatio nbein g on e o f themwhic h 1 8 i s whyI' m

presen t her e wit hth e tw o o f yo utoday . 1 9 Thos e adjudicator ybodie s al l hav e differen t 2 0 rule s an dregulation s tha t ar e publishe dwhic hth e 

### 2 1 judge s mus t the nfollow . I nthi s particula r agency , 2 2 th e Offic e o f Hearing s wit hth e U.S . Departmen t o f 2 3 Transportation , w e hav e ver yspecifi c regulation s tha t 2 4 allo wfo r a grea t dea l o f discover yt o pas s betwee n 2 5 th e parties . That' s no t necessaril ytru e fo r manyo f Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 4 6

1 th e othe r agencie s tha t Mr. ' Camach o ha s identified . 2 W e don' t nee dt o worr yabou t thos e othe r agencies . 3 Fo r thi s particula r cas e befor e me , I don' t 4 nee dt o se e you r discover ytha t yo uexchang e betwee n 5 th e tw o o f yo uunles s andonl yunles s ther e i s a 6 problem . An di f there' s a problem , the nthere' s a 7 certai nwa yt o ge t m e involve dwhic hi s calle da 8 motion . 9 Onc e yo ufil e a motio ncomplainin g abou t a 1 0 discover yprocess , usuall yyo uwoul dfil e wit htha t 1 1 motio ntha t portio no f th e discover ytha t yo uwan t m e 1 2 t o revie wandhel p yo uou t with , t o mak e i t simple . 1 3 I f you'r e doin g fin e wit hth e discover y 1 4 betwee nth e tw o o f you , I don' t nee dt o se e anyo f th e 1 5 material . Bu t I don' t wan t t o ge t distracte dwit h 1 6 that . 1 7 Myrea l focu s righ t no wi s t o mak e sur e tha t 1 8 you , Mr . Brown , kno wtha t yo u nee dt o fil e a wri t te n 1 9 answe r tha t respond s specificall yt o eac handever y 2 0 paragrap hi nth e three-pag e notic e o f complain t tha t 2 1 th e FA

Afile dwit hthi s office , andyo unee d- - 2 2 MR . BROWN : Ca nI as k yo ua question ? 2 3 TH E COURT : Yes . 2 4 MR . BROWN : G o ahead . You r Honor . I' m 2 5 sorry . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n (202 ) 628-488 84 7

1 TH E COURT : G o ahead . Di dyo uhav e a 2 question ? 3 MR . BROWN : Yes . Ca nI us e an yinformatio n 4 tha t w e use dbefor e eve nthoug hit' s no t par t o f th e 5 discovery . You r Honor , o r befor e eve ntha t m e an dMr . 6 Camach o ha dtalke dabou t fo r th e writte nanswe r o f 7 complaint , You r Honor ? 8 TH E COURT : Yo uca ncraf t you r answe r t o 9 includ e an yanswer s tha t yo upreviousl ygav e t o Mr . 1 0 Camacho . Yo uca nrepea t the mi nth e answe r tha t yo u 1 1 writ e fo r thi s Court . 1 2 MR . BROWN : Than k you . You r Honor . 1 3 TH E COURT : Okay . Bu t yo unee dt o hav e tha t 1 4 answe r file dbefor e w e hav e ou r nex t litigatio n 1 5 schedulin g conferenc e s o tha t I hav e a sens e o f ho w 1 6 fa r apar t o r ho wclos e togethe r yo uar e i nterm s o f 1 7 you r dispute , an dtha t wil l giv e m e a ver ygoo dsens e I S o f ho wlon g th e tria l migh t nee dt o tak e i f you , i n 1 9 fact , g o t o trial . 2 0 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 1 TH E COURT : Well , lookin g a t you r calenda r 2 2 a s I loo k a t mine , I se e tha t toda yi s Decembe r 7 , 2 3 2011 . W e hav e a holida ythat' s comingu p fo r man y 2 4 peopl e i ntw o week s o f - - Mr . Brown , what' s you r 2 5 genera l schedule ? Ar e yo uworkin g a t nigh t al l th e Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 time ? MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . TH E COURT : Okay . D o yo uhav e an yday s off ? MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . TH E COURT : Wha t day s d o yo utypicall yhav e off ? MR . BROWN : I t varies . You r Honor . Sometime s it' s durin g th e beginnin g o f th e wee k o r th e middl e o f th e week . You r Honor .

TH E COURT : Okay . Whe nyo uge t of f a t work , wha t tim e d o yo unormall yge t off ?

MR . BROWN : A t aroun d7:05 , You r Honor . TH E COURT : I s tha t 7:0 5 i nth e mornin g o r 7:0 5 a t night ?

MR . BROWN : 7:0 5 i nth e morning . You r Honor . TH E COURT : Okay . An dwha t tim e d o yo u usuall yg o t o be donc e yo uge t of f work ? Som e peopl e nee da coupl e hour s t o unwind . Som e peopl e g o hom e an dg o t o be drigh t away .

MR . BROWN : I'v e go t a coupl e o f hours . You r Honor , unti l - -

TH E COURT : Yeah , wha t tim e d o yo uusuall y g o t o bed ? MR . BROWN : Aroun d9:00 , You r Honor .

TH E COURT : Okay . An dthe nwha t tim e d o Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 yo uusuall yge t up ? 2 MR . BROWN : Aroun dtwo , You r Honor . 3 TH E COURT : S o woul di t b e fai r t o sa ytha t 4 t o hav e somethin g that' s a littl e afte r 2:0 0 i nth e 5 afternoo ni s preferabl e fo r you ? 6 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 7 TH E COURT : I' mgoin g t o as k bot ho f yo ut o 8 tak e a loo k a t you r calendar s abou t on e mont hfro m 9 now , an dthat' s th e wee k o f Januar y8th , 2012 . I' m 1 0 lookin g a t Januar y10t han dJanuar y12t hwhic har e a 1 1 Tuesda yan da Thursday , respectfully . 1 2 Mr . Brown , startin g wit hyou , i f w e se t thi s 1 3 sa y2:3 0 an dafte r o nTuesda yth e 10t ho f Januar yo r 1 4 Thursda yth e 12t ho f January , woul dtha t wor k fo r you ? 1 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 6 TH E COURT : Okay . Mr . Camacho , lookin g a t 1 7 you r calendar , d o eithe r o f thos e date s work ? 1 8 MR . COMACHO : Eithe r on e works . Judge . 1 9 TH E COURT : Okay . S o let' s pla no nTuesday , 2 0 Januar ylO , a t 3:0 0 i nth e afternoo nwhic hwoul db e 2 1 easter ntime , an dtha t wil l b e ou r thir dlitigatio n 2 2 schedulin g conference . 2 3 Now , becaus e it' s Januar y10 , I' mgoin g t o 2 4 backtrac k fro mtha t dat e t o giv e yo ua du e date , Mr . 2 5 Brown , t o fil e you r writte nanswer . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 5 0

1 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 TH E COURT : Ar e yo ugoin g t o b e takin g any 3 tim e of f durin g th e holiday s tha t ar e comin g up , and 4 i f so , wha t vacatio ntime ar e yo utaking ? 5 MR . BROWN : I' mno t takin g anyvacatio n 6 time . You r Honor . I' mof f o nChristmas , s o - - 7 TH E COURT : Okay . 8 MR . BROWN : - - i t doesn' t matter , You r 9 Honor . Myschedul e i s prett yfree , bu t I jus t wante d 1 0 t o hav e tha t nex t morning . 1 1 TH E COURT : Okay . Wha t I' mgoin g t o do , 1 2 sir , i s I' mgoin g t o giv e yo u a du e dat e t o fil e you r 1 3 writte nanswer , andtha t wil l b e Decembe r 29th , 2011 . 1 4 Yo uca nfil e i t tomorro wi f yo uge t you r notic e o f 1 5 complain t andal l you r duck s i na row , bu t yo uhav e 1 6 unti l Decembe r 29 , 2011 , t o writ e i t andfil e it . 1 7 Whe nI sayfil e it , I mea ntha t you'r e 1 8 sendin g a cop yt o me , t o Mr . Camacho , andt o th e 1 9 docke t cler k a t th e FA Awhic hi s a differen t offic e 2 0 tha nmine . 2 1 Whe nyo uloo k a t th e orde r settin g secon d 2 2 litigatio nschedulin g conference , you'1 1 se e a servic e 2 3 lis t attache da s th e ver ybac k page , andi t wil l hav e 2 4 you r name , Mr . Camacho' s name , myname , andth e FAA' s 2 5 nam e al l o nit , an dal l o f them , al l o f thes e peopl e Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 als o hav e addresse s - - addres s lists . S o whe nyo u 2 fil e you r document , yo uar e puttin g thi s i nth e U.S . 3 mai l t o eac ho f thes e places , addresse dt o eac ho f 4 thes e people . 5 S o you'l l addres s on e t o Mr . Camacho . 6 You'1 1 addres s on e t o me . Judg e Sullivan , an dthe n 7 you'l l addres s on e t o th e docke t cler k a t th e FAA . 8 An do f course , kee p a cop yfo r yourself . 9 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 0 TH E COURT : Now , sinc e you r answe r i s goin g 1 1 t o b e du e o nth e 29th , yo uan dMr . Camach o ca ntal k a t 1 2 an ytim e betwee nno wan dtha t Januar y10th , 2010 , bu t 1 3 t o b e o nth e saf e side , I thin k wha t w e shoul dd o i s 1 4 schedul e a privat e telephon e conferenc e fo r th e tw o o f 1 5 yo ut o mak e sur e tha t yo uca nreac hothe r becaus e a s 1 6 Mr . Camach o mentione dearlier , he' s calle dyo usevera l 1 7 time s an dha s no t bee nabl e t o reac hyou . An dthat' s 1 8 n o good . 1 9 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 0 TH E COURT : S o le t m e g o t o Mr . Camach o 2 1 next . 2 2 Mr . Camacho , d o yo uhav e wor k tim e tha t yo u 2 3 ar e workin g durin g th e firs t ful l wee k o f January ? 2 4 MR . COMACHO : Yes , Judge . I' mbac k i nth e 2 5 offic e Januar y3 throug hth e 6th , an dI wil l sa ytha t Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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### 5 2

1 becaus e I no wunderstan dmor e full yalthoug hI don' t 2 ye t kno wwha t tim e Mr . Brownstart s hi s evenin g shift , 3 I di dno t appreciat e th e fac t tha t h e work s evenings , 4 anda s a consequenc e m y- - althoug hi nth e beginnin g I 5 starte dcallin g hi mdurin g th e day , I starte dt o wor k 6 o nth e premis e tha t h e wa s probabl y- - I couldn' t 7 reac hhi mbecaus e h e wa s a t wor k when , i nfact , a s I 8 starte dreaching/tryin g t o cal l hi mlater , five , six , 9 seve na t night , probabl yh e wa s a t work . 1 0 S o I kno wse e tha t th e mos t opportun e fo r m e 1 1 i s t o tryt o reac hhi mtw o t o thre e o r thre e t o fou r 1 2 i nth e afternoon , assumin g tha t he' s stil l availabl e 1 3 an dno t a t work . An dtha t woul db e m yeffort s woul d 1 4 b e directe dt o accomplis hthat . 1 5 TH E COURT : Well , I appreciat e that , bu t I 1 6 thin k i t wil l b e eve nmor e helpfu l i f I jus t schedul e 1 7 a nappointmen t fo r th e tw o o f yo uwhil e Mr . Browni s 1 8 o nth e phone . 1 9 MR . COMACHO : Okay . W e ca nd o that . 2 0 TH E COURT : Mr . Brown , lookin g a t you r 

### 2 1 calenda r i nth e firs t wee k o f January , 2012 , d o yo u 2 2 hav e tim e availabl e o nWednesda yth e 4th , Thursda yth e 2 3 5th , o r Frida yth e 6t hbetwee nth e hour s o f tw o and 2 4 say4:3 0 t o tal k t o Mr . Camach o byphone ? 2 5 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 TH E COURT : D o yo uhav e an ypreferenc e fo r 2 an yo f thos e day ? 3 MR . BROWN : No , You r Honor . 4 TH E COURT : Mr . Camacho , I didn' t as k thi s 5 o f you . D o yo uhav e an ypreferenc e fo r an yon e o f 6 thos e days ? 7 MR . COMACHO : M ypreferenc e woul dprobabl y 8 b e Thursda yth e 5t hs o tha t I coul dpla ycatc hu p 9 havin g com e bac k fro mth e holidays . 1 0 TH E COURT : Wh ydon' t w e d o this , I' mgoin g 1 1 t o se t a privat e phon e conferenc e appointmen t fo r th e 1 2 tw o o f yo uo nThursday , Januar y5 , 2012 , a t 3:0 0 p.m . 1 3 MR . COMACHO : An dthat' s Easter ntime ? 1 4 TH E COURT : Easter ntime . An dMr . Camacho , 1 5 I'l l as k yo ut o initiat e th e phon e cal l i f you' db e s o 1 6 kind . 1 7 MR . COMACHO : We'l l d o that . 1 8 TH E COURT : Mr . Brown , I wil l no t b e 1 9 participatin g i nthi s phon e call . Thi s i s jus t a n 2 0 opportunit yfo r yo uan dMr . Camach o t o spea k privatel y 2 1 abou t th e cas e afte r yo ufil e you r answer . 2 2 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 2 3 TH E COURT : Okay , an dthe nI wil l b e 24 chattin g wit hth e tw o o f yo uagai nth e followin g wee k 2 5 o nThursda y- - I' msorry , Tuesday , excus e me , Januar y Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 10 , 2010 , beginnin g a t 3:0 0 p.m . i nth e afternoo n 2 Easter ntime . 3 B ytha t time , I wil l hav e receive dyou r 4 answer , Mr . Brown . I'l l hav e a muc hbette r ide a o f 5 wher e yo uar e agreein g wit hth e FA Ao r disagreein g 6 wit hth e FAA , an dI thin k you'l l hav e a muc hbette r 7 fee l fo r wha t yo unee dt o d o a s you r ow n 8 representativ e i f yo udecid e t o g o t o tria l becaus e b y 9 tha t time , sir , I' dpresum e tha t yo uwil l hav e eithe r 1 0 gon e t o a la wlibrar yan dlooke du p thes e code s o f 1 1 federa l regulatio ntha t we'v e alread ytalke dabou t an d 1 2 als o kin do f don e som e weighin g an dbalancin g i nterm s 1 3 o f you r lif e abou t wha t yo uwan t t o se e happe nan d 1 4 wha t yo uthin k woul db e bes t fo r yo ubot hi ntim e an d 1 5 i nmoney . 1 6 MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . 1 7 TH E COURT ; An dthe nw e ca nreconven e earl y 1 8 i nJanuary , o nJanuar y10 , 201 2 an dtal k abou t wha t 1 9 th e progres s ha s bee ns o far , wher e w e wan t t o go , an d 2 0 wha t th e tim e line s ar e fo r furthe r proceedings . 2 1 I f a t tha t tim e yo uan dMr . Camach o stil l 2 2 wan t t o g o t o trial , the nI'l l b e settin g u p tria l 2 3 date s an dsom e othe r deadline s fo r yo ua t tha t time . 24 S o wit htha t o nbehal f o f th e FTU^ , Mr . 2 5 Camacho , i s ther e anythin g els e tha t w e nee dt o Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

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1 addres s fo r you r client ? 2 MR . COMACHO : No , You r Honor . No t a t thi s 3 point . No . 4 TH E COURT : Than k you . 5 Mr . Brown , d o yo uhav e an yquestion s tha t 6 yo u woul dlik e t o as k abou t thi s proces s s o far , o r i s 7 ther e anythin g els e tha t I ca nd o fo r yo utoda yo n 8 behal f o f you r ow nself ? 9 MR . BROWN : No , You r Honor . I hav e al l th e 1 0 dates , You r Honor . 1 1 TH E COURT : Okay . The njus t s o tha t we'r e 1 2 clear , I'l l b e sendin g mai l t o yo ufro mher e o nou t t o 1 3 you r Melbourne , Florid a addres s unles s yo utel l u s 1 4 differently . 1 5 MR . BROWN : Than k you . You r Honor . 1 6 TH E COURT : Okay . Wit hthat , I loo k forwar d 1 7 t o talkin g wit hyo ubot hi nearl yJanuar y2012 . I'l l 1 8 wis hyo ual l a goo dholida yi nth e meantime . 1 9 W e ca ng o of f th e record , an dI wis hyo ual l 2 0 a goo dday . 2 1 MR . COMACHO : Than k you . Judge . 2 2 TH E COURT : Than k you . 2 3 (Whereupon , a t 2:5 0 p.m. , th e hearin g i nth e 24 above-entitle dmatte r wa s concluded. ) 2 5 / / Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n (202 ) 628-488 8

### 5 6 REPORTER' S CERTIFICAT E

DOCKE T NO. : CAS E TITLE : HEARIN GDATE : LOCATION : FDM S NO . FAA-2011-100 9

QUENTO NT . BROWN Decembe r 7 , 201 2 Washington , D.C .

I herebycertif ytha t th e proceeding s and evidenc e ar e containe dfull yan daccuratel yo nth e tape s an dnote s reporte dbym e a t th e hearin g i nth e abov e cas e befor e th e Departmen t o f Transportation .

Dat e I

Kyl d Offit i iJohns j

jorte r Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n Suit e 60 0 122 0 L Street , N.W . Washington , D.C . 20005-401 8

Heritag e Reportin g Corporatio n

(202 ) 628-488 8