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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

+ + + + + ; • 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

+ + + + + 

HEARING 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

RUSHMORE HELICOPTERS, INC. 

: FAA Docket No. 

: CP10GL0002 

: DMS Docket No. 

: FAA-2010-0023 

Wednesday, 

April 27, 2011 

U.S. Courthouse 

515 9^^ Street 

Rapid City, South Dakota 

The above-entitled matter came on 

for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 9:00 a.m. 

BEFORE: 

THE HONORABLE RICHARD C. GOODWIN 

Administrative Law Judge 

RECEIVED 

t^AY \ % 2011 

HEARING DOCKET 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Agency: 

BRIANA MARTINO, ESQ. 

of: Office of the Regional Counsel 

23 00 East Devon Avenue 

Des Plaines, IL 60018 

Tel: (847) 294-8275 

Fax: (847) 294-7498 

On Behalf of the Respondent: 

MICHAEL JACOB, pro se 

24564 US Highway 16/385 

Custer, SD 57730 

Tel: (605) 673-2163 

Cell: (605) 390-6119 

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(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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TABLE OF CONTENTS 

WITNESSE S 

Direct Cross Redirect Recross 

Gary Kwasniewski 14 57 

Robert Leffert 64 79 

James Bad Horse 88 99 

Barry Dunmire 109 113 

Michael Jacob 118 120 

66 

86 

OPENING STATEMENT 

Agency 

EXHIBITS 

MARKED FOR RECEIVED IN 

IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE 

Acrency 

No. 1 Helicopter Photos 30 

No. 2 Fuel Port Photo 31 

No. 3 Rushmore Log Sheet 3 4 

No. 4 Rushmore Log Sheet 3 6 

No. 7 Email from Dickerson 50 

No. 5 Letter from Leffert 54 

No. 6 Order 2150.3B 55-56 

31 

33 

35 

39 

51 

55 

57 

Respondent 

A Diagram 1 2 1 122 

(202) 234^M33 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

9:03 a.m. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Let's 

go on the record. 

This is Rushmore Helicopters, 

Inc., FAA Docket No. 2010-0023. 

Counsel, your appearance on the 

record, please? 

MS. MARTINO: Briana Martino for 

the Agency. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Can you 

spell, Briana, please? 

MS. MARTINO: 

Martino is M-A-R-T-I-N-0. 

B-R-I-A-N-A. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Sir, do 

you want to identify yourself for the record, 

please? 

MR. JACOB: Michael Jacob, 

President of Rushmore Helicopters. That's MI-C-H-A-E-L J-A-C-0-B. 

ADMIN, LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: A 

couple things before we get started. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234^U33 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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Any exhibits that you submit, make 

sure that you redact any personal identifying 

information, dates of birth, any addresses or 

phone numbers, Social Security numbers. It 

may not occur in this case. 

Everything that we do goes on the 

internet, so when you put your witnesses on 

the stand try to stay away from personal 

identifying information. This is the wrong 

environment to have personal identifying 

information on the internet. 

The transcript will also go on the 

internet. 

For the court reporter, if you 

hear a term you don't understand, just raise 

your hand, we'll try to stop right there and 

get it cleared up for you, which is better 

than at 4:00 this afternoon trying to remember 

what the heck was said at 9:30. 

I keep all the exhibits. I'll 

ship the exhibits to Ms. Matthews, who will 

then walk them down to DMS. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 2000&-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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I can't think of any other -- and 

the rule is, we want to finish by 4:30 and be 

out of the building by 5:00. 

So, any preliminary matters? 

MS. MARTINO: Just the Agency, 

just quickly, in the amended complaint, Mr. 

Jacob pointed out in the answer a mistake. 

So, I'd like to amend Part 1, Paragraph 1, to 

say at all times relevant hereto, Rushmore 

operated a commercial air tour operation in 

the vicinity of Keystone, South Dakota, rather 

than Custer, South Dakota, 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. 

Jacob, do you have any objection to the 

amendment to the complaint? 

MR. JACOB: No, Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, 

with that amendment we'll proceed. 

All right, opening statement? 

MS. MARTINO: Just briefly, Your 

Honor. 

(202) 234-4433 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Sure. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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And, if we start getting hall 

noise here, you are welcome to get up and shut 

that door. 

MS, MARTINO: Thank you. 

Your Honor, this case concerns 

flights operated by the Respondent, Rushmore 

Helicopters, on August 7, 2009, in a Bell 206 

helicopter, when it was not airworthy. 

Respondent is a commercial 

operator in the area, who takes paying 

passengers on site visiting tours in Keystone, 

South Dakota, among other areas. 

Today we'll hear from Federal 

Aviation inspectors who conducted an 

investigation into the flights on that day by 

one of Respondent's helicopters operated with 

duct tape covering a fuel port rather than the 

approved fuel cap. 

First, Inspector Kwasniewski will 

testify that he went to Respondent's Keystone 

location, and when that Respondent had 

operated, approximately, ten flights, carrying 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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almost 30 paying passengers, while the air 

pack had duct tape over a fuel port. 

Inspector Kwasniewski will explain 

the conditions found with that helicopter, and 

the conversations he had with the Respondent's 

pilot, Mr. Leroy Leffert, Robert Leroy 

Leffert, I'm sorry. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: That's 

L-E-F-F-E-R-T. 

I'm trying to make his job easier. 

It's Saturday morning, and he's trying to get 

through the transcript, remembering what was 

said. 

Go ahead. 

MS. MARTINO: Mr. Kwasniewski will 

explain how the pilot told him that the fuel 

cap was missing since the evening before, and 

that the pilot had notified Rushmore 

Helicopters of the missing fuel cap. 

Inspector Kwasniewski will also 

explain why the aircraft was unairworthy, when 

the fuel port was covered with duct tape, 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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rather than the approved fuel cap that's part 

of the aircraft tech certificate. 

The Respondent's pilot, Mr. 

Leffert, will also testify today regarding his 

flights on August 7th of '09, and he will 

explain how he realized the fuel cap was 

missing on the evening of the 6th, that he 

contacted Respondent' s President, and they 

decided that he should look in a nearby hangar 

for a fuel cap that would fit the Bell 206. 

Unfortunately, Mr. Leffert was unable to find 

a fuel cap for the helicopter and used duct 

tape to fly back to Respondent's location in 

Custer, South Dakota. 

The next day Rushmore Helicopters 

was fully aware of the missing fuel cap, had 

actually ordered a new fuel cap, and Rushmore 

Helicopters operated at least ten flights, 

carrying almost 3 0 passengers, with duct tape 

over the fuel port. 

After all the testimony you' ve 

heard today, the Agency will respectfully 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234^*433 
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request that Your Honor enter an order finding 

Respondent in violation of 14 CFR 91.7A, and 

91.13A, and an order affecting civil penalty 

in accordance with the Agency's sanction 

guidance. 

Thank you. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Makes 

one wonder what the FAA did with that guy up 

in bush country. Have you all seen that? You 

haven't seen that, have you? It is 

promulgated from Chicago. And, apparently, 

later the tail dragging --a bear got into it, 

ate the fuselage, the tires. So, these guys 

know. 

And, the guy called for two tires 

and a box of duct tape, put the tires on, 

wrapped the plane in duct tape, and flew back 

on base. 

Fortunately, I wasn't on the 

plane. 

Sir, do you want to do an opening 

now or reserve? As the Respondent, you can 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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give an opening argument at this point, or you 

have the right to wait until your case in 

chief to do an opening. It doesn't make any 

difference either way. 

MR. JACOB: I would prefer to 

defer my opening. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

MR. JACOB: However, Your Honor, 

if it is within my rights, I would request 

that Ms. Martino's witnesses be sequestered. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes, 

we' 11 do the rule on witnesses. I noticed 

there seems to be a bench down the hall, I'm 

guessing that belongs to the courtroom down 

there. So, we' 11 do a call on the rule on 

witnesses, which means that anybody who is 

going to testify is excused from the 

courtroom, and I instruct you not to discuss 

your testimony with anybody prior to 

conclusion of the hearing. 

If somebody kicks you out of those 

benches, come back in and talk to Ms. Martino, 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234^M33 
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and we'll find you someplace else to go. 

MS. MARTINO: Judge, if I may, a 

woman upstairs offered us, there' s two witness 

rooms just down the hall that look a little 

more comfortable. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

There's no coffee shop, I already asked. 

So, why don't you relocate your 

witnesses. 

Now, the FAA is entitled to a 

technical witness, which I'm assuming this 

gentleman is. You would also be entitled to 

a technical witness. 

The purpose of that is to give 

technical expertise. They may or may not 

testify, it depends on the case. 

So, why don't you relocate your 

witnesses, and then when you return we will 

start. 

MS. MARTINO: Judge, this will be 

our first witness. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: And, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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you're from the Chicago area, Ms. Martino? 

MS. MARTINO: Yes, I grew up in 

the south suburbs. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 

Distinctive Chicago accent. From the south 

side? 

MS. MARTINO: Yes. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: That 

means you are a Sox fan. 

MS. MARTINO: Yes. Is that good 

or bad? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: My 

grandfather was a die hard Cubs fan. He's 

still waiting for them to win. He has been 

dead 40 years. 

Okay, you can call your first 

witness. 

MS, MARTINO: That will be Mr. 

Gary Kwasniewski, 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Sir, do 

you want to approach the stand, raise your 

right hand. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-U33 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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Please be seated. 

I'm going to ask you to pronounce 

your first and last name, and spell your first 

and last name. 

MR. KWASNIEWSKI : It' s Gary 

Kwasniewski, G-A-R-Y, last name is K-W-A-S-NI-E-W-S-K-I. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Thank 

you. 

WHEREUPON, 

GARY KWASNIEWSKI 

was called for examination by Counsel for the 

Agency, and having been first duly sworn, 

testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Inspector Kwasniewski, do you hold 

any FAA certificate? 

A Yes, I do. I've a Helicopter 

Pilot Certificate, Air Frame Power Plant 

Certificate, and an inspection authorization 

rating. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C, 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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Q And, how long have you held your 

A&P certificate? 

Q 

Since 1997. 

And, how 1ong have you held your 

lA? 

A It was probably about 2000. 

Q And, for the record, what an A&P 

certificate? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: By the 

way, it's spelled just like the supermarket 

chain. 

THE WITNESS: Air Frame and Power 

Plant Certificate, a maintenance certificate. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Were you involved in aircraft 

maintenance prior to obtaining your A&P in 

1996? 

A Yes, I was. I was in the 

military, I was an aircraft maintenance and 

air crew on helicopters from 1988 to 1995. 

Q And, after you left the military, 

how did you use your A&P certificate? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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A Mainly, let' s see, Part 91 

maintenance, Part 135, I had some 137 

maintenance as well. I was co-director of a 

Part 14 5 repair station, and instructor to 

Part 147 A&P school. I worked on Part 91 

aircraft, like I said, up through, you know, 

the small single-engine, fixed wing, up 

through twin engine and king airs. 

Q And, how are you now employed? 

A Right now I'm with the FAA Safety 

TeanA, out of the Rapid City Flight Standards 

District Office. 

Q Okay. And, were you employed 

there in August of 2009? 

A I was a Maintenance Inspector with 

the office in Rapid City, 

Q Okay. Is that called the Aviation 

Safety --

A I was an Aviation Safety Inspector 

at the time, yes. 

Q And also referred to as A&P? 

A Yes. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, DC. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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Q What were your responsibilities 

while you were a maintenance inspector in 

2009? 

A Certification, surveillance of 

aircraft operators in the State, mainly. 

Q Are you familiar with the 

Respondent, Rushmore Helicopters? 

Q 

Yes. 

And, how are you familiar with 

them? 

A I had some inspections up at Black 

Hills Aerial Adventures. I've done some ramp 

inspections on their aircraft, and that type 

of thing. 

Q Okay. Now you mentioned Black 

Hills Aerial Adventures, is that connected to 

Rushmore Helicopters? 

A A sister company to Rushmore 

Helicopters. 

Q And, who are these companies owned 

by? 

A Mr. Jacob. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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Q He owns both of them? 

Yes. 

Q And, Rushmore Helicopters, what do 

they do? 

A They are a Part 91 air tour 

operation, do sightseeing rides in and around 

areas of Black Hills. 

Q Where is Rushmore located? 

A Rushmore Helicopters is in 

Keystone, South Dakota. 

Q Okay. And, do they have a base 

elsewhere? 

A Rushmore Helicopters, no, just in 

Keystone, and then Black Hills Aerial 

Adventures is up by -- near Custer, South 

Dakota. 

Q And, employees of Rushmore 

Helicopters, did they have reason to go to the 

Custer location of Black Hills Aerial 

Adventures? 

A Sure. I guess that's where their 

hangar facility is, and it sounds like the 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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employees just kind of - - they all kind of 

work together, the way I understand it. 

Q Okay. 

A Whether it's Rushmore Helicopters 

or Black Hills Aerial Adventures. 

Q Okay. And, does Rushmore 

Helicopters hold a Bay Certificate? 

A That's a Part 91 air tour 

operation. 

Q You were working in your current 

position on August 7th of '09? 

A I was a Maintenance Inspector at 

the time, yes. 

Q All right. And, did you receive 

any information regarding the Respondent, 

Rushmore Helicopters, that day? 

A On the 6th -- or, on the 7th, yes. 

Q How did you receive the 

information? 

A The Assistant Manger of our office 

let us know that they had a complaint by the 

public, something to do with duct tape over a 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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fuel cap, or fuel port. And, we were 

instructed to go up to Keystone and 

investigate. 

Q And, what did you do after you got 

that information? 

A After we were told, we left the 

office and went to Keystone, we were there 

around 2:00, in that range. Once we got 

there, we went and talked to the woman who 

complained, Mary Davis, we talked to her about 

the incident. 

She said that some people that 

were in her restaurant the day before had 

noticed, you know, something happened with the 

fuel, or the helicopter operation, which is 

right across the parking lot, and said they 

could see that they had lost a fuel cap and 

they were putting duct tape over the fuel 

port. 

Q And, where were you when you 

talked to this Mary Davis? 

A We were at her restaurant, Big 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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Time Pizza, I believe it's called. 

Q Okay. And, you said that's across 

the street from the Keystone location of 

Respondent? 

A Yes. 

Q Okay. Did anyone go with you up 

to Keystone? 

A Inspector Dunmire, Inspector Barry 

Dunmire. 

Q What did you do after you talked 

to Ms. Davis? 

A After we talked to her, we walked 

around the parking lot over to Rushmore 

Helicopters. 

Q What time was that? 

A I said we arrived there about 

2:00, and we talked to Ms. Davis for a short 

time, so it was just after 2:00, between 2:00 

and 2:30. 

Q What happened when you arrived at 

the Respondent's location in Keystone? 

A We walked over towards the office. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-M33 
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We even walked through the office. As we went 

through, there's a helicopter, a jet ranger, 

was returning at the time. We didn' t know 

which helicopter, you know, would be involved 

in this. 

Q Do they have multiple helicopters 

at that location? 

A Yes. I believe at the time they 

had two jet rangers. I don't know, you know, 

how many they had at that operation, but we 

knew that several different -- three different 

types of helicopters, I believe, at the time. 

So, we didn't know which one was involved in 

this, and Ms. Davis, she wasn't that specific 

with the information she gave us. 

Q Okay. So, when you walked through 

the office, what helicopters were in? 

A If I remember at the time, it was 

a jet ranger. There may have been another one 

on a pad, but the jet ranger we saw was kind 

of sitting off to the side. So, I believe it 

was getting fuel at the time. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

•1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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Q And, could you see the -- what --

do you know what the N number of that 

helicopter was? 

A It's an N2268 Whiskey. 

Q And, when you first saw that 

helicopter, could you see the fuel port side? 

A That side was kind of facing 

towards the fuel tanks, and we couldn't see 

it. The aircraft was turning at the time. I 

didn' t know if there was anybody in the 

helicopter. 

We met the pilot, he was coming 

from the helicopter, coming towards the 

office, and we spoke to him briefly. 

Q And, where were you when you spoke 

with the pilot? 

A Between their fueling pad, where 

the helicopter was, and the office. 

Q And, what was the pilot's name? 

A Mr. Leffert. 

Okay. What di d Mr. Leffert have 

t o say? 

(202) 23A-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 
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A He was in a bit of a hurry, I 

believe, he has some passengers waiting, and 

as he was coming up, again, it was a little 

bit noisy, I mean, the helicopter is still 

turning. I didn't know if anybody was at the 

controls or not. 

And, when he came towards us, we 

just talked to him briefly, just asked if 

there were an air witness issues with the 

helicopter. 

He said no , again, he was in a 

hurry, we spoke briefly. And, he went towards 

the office. 

And, I didn't want to go over 

towards the helicopter. I didn't -- again, I 

didn't know if there was anybody at the 

controls, and it was running, turning, and I 

couldn't see the fuel port. So, we just let 

it be as that. He said was no air witness 

issues. 

Q And, did you have any reason to 

think that there was an airworthiness issue 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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with that specific helicopter? 

A Not at the time. He said there 

wasn't any issues. 

Q Okay. And, after you spoke with 

the Respondent's pilot, what did you do next? 

A We next went over - - back over 

towards the office, and in the meantime Mr. 

Leffert had gone back out and repositioned the 

helicopter down on a pad, that was the 

farthest pad from the office at the time. 

Passengers were loading, and about that time 

is when Inspector Dunmire and myself, we 

noticed that -- or I anyway, I noticed that it 

appeared that there was duct tape over the 

filler port. 

Q Okay. When you went back into the 

office, why were you going back into the 

office? 

A No reason, just to wait and look 

and see what other helicopters were coming in. 

Again, we didn't know which helicopter, you 

know, if there was any that were involved in 

(202) 234-4433 

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this incident, if, in fact, that there was, 

you know, a helicopter that had duct tape over 

the filler port. 

Q Okay. And, when you did see the 

helicopter that had the duct tape, what did 

you do? 

A There wasn't a whole lot we could 

do. At that time, the passengers were 

boarding, the helicopter was getting ready to 

-- getting ready to depart. 

Q When you saw the duct tape on the 

helicopter, was there any opportunity for you 

to stop the helicopter from taking off? 

A It was kind of at the farthest 

port. I don't -- I don't know if I would have 

felt safe in running out there to try and stop 

him. So, no, at that time I didn't, I didn't 

try and stop him. 

Q What did you do after -- did the 

pilot take off in that Bell? 

A The pilot left on the flight, and 

returned a short time later. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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Q Okay. And, what did you do after 

he returned? 

A After he returned, we were walking 

out. I think the passengers were departing 

the aircraft. And, before we got there Mr. 

Leffert repositioned the helicopter to the far 

end of their location there at Keystone, down 

towards their hangar. 

Q And, did you walk out to that 

location? 

A Yes. We walked out there. As we 

arrived, the helicopter was being shut down, 

and walked up to him and asked him -- well, 

you know, I saw the fuel port, and it was 

covered with duct tape, and I asked him, you 

know, what was the situation. 

And, he just responded, he 

admitted that the day before the fuel cap was 

lost after - - they figure some time after 

fueling that they realized it was lost, and 

they covered the port with duct tape. 

And, I asked him if it was 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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airworthy, and he responded that it was. 

I asked him if they had asked any 

maintenance personnel, and he said that there 

were no maintenance personnel to ask, and 

that's when I advised him, I said that this --

I recommend they don't fly until they 

determine the airworthiness of the aircraft, 

that any flights may be in violation. 

Q Did you talk to Mr. Leffert about 

whether or not he had contacted the company 

when he realized the fuel cap was missing? 

A Not at that time, later on I did. 

Yes, and at that time he said that --he said, 

nobody knew about it until the next day, as 

far as Mr. Jacob knowing about it. He said 

that they didn't know. He didn't know until 

the next day. Mr. Jacob told me that as well. 

In the statement that we received 

from Mr. Leffert, he did say that the day 

before, on the 6th, he was able to contact Mr. 

Jacob, and that they discussed trying to find 

a fuel cap in their hangar there at Keystone, 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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and they weren't able to find one. And so, he 

covered the port with duct tape. 

Q Okay. While you were waiting, 

after you saw the helicopter take off and you 

were waiting for it to return, did you talk to 

anyone in the office? 

A Yes, Mariah Weller, one of the 

employees there, one of the ground crew at 

Rushmore Helicopters. 

Q What did you ask her? 

A I asked her if I could get a copy 

of the day's flight schedule. 

Q And, did she give you one? 

A Yes, she did. They had a binder 

right there with the day's flight schedule. 

She took it out of the binder, and there's a 

copy machine right there behind her, and she 

made a c opy and gave it to my s e 1 f and 

Inspector Dunmire. 

Q And, did you talk to Ms. Weller 

about anything else? 

A I guess I asked her if she knew 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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when the fuel cap had been missing, and she 

had worked the day before, I believe she did 

say that it happened just before she got off 

work the day before, at 4:00. 

Q Okay. 

MS. MARTINO: May I approach? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Sure. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q I'm showing you what's been marked 

as Agency Exhibit 1. 

{Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

Agency Exhibit No. 1.) 

(Whereupon, the witness was 

proffered the document.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Do you recognize that? 

Q Yes. That's the Bell helicopter. 

Q Can you identify the N number of 

that helicopter? 

A Yes, N2268 Whiskey. 

Q And, is this photo a fair and 

(202) 234-W33 

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accurate depiction of the Bell helicopter you 

saw on August 7th of 2009? 

A Yes, it is. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency would like to move Exhibit 1 into 

evidence. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Any 

objection, Mr. Jacob? 

MR. JACOB: No, Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Agency 

Exhibit 1 for identification is received into 

evidence as Agency Exhibit 1. 

(Whereupon, the document 

previousl y marke d for 

identification as Agency Exhibit 

1, was received in evidence.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q I'm now showing you Exhibit -- the 

witness Agency Exhibit 2. 

(Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

Agency Exhibit No. 2.) 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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(Whereupon, the witness was 

proffered the document.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Mr. Kwasniewski, do you recognize 

this photo? 

A Yes. 

Q And, what is it? 

A That's a picture of the fuel port 

of that aircraft, of N2268 Whiskey, as we 

found it at the far end of their location 

there at Keystone. 

Q And, does this photo fairly and 

accurately depict the Bell that you saw on 

August 7, 2009? 

A Yes, it does. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency would like to move Exhibit 2 into 

evidence at this time. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. 

Jacob, any objection? 

MR. JACOB: No, Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Agency 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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Exhibit 2 for identification is received in 

evidence as Agency Exhibit 2. 

(Whereupon, the document 

previousl y marke d for 

identification as Agency Exhibit 

2, was received in evidence.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Inspector, after you talked to the 

Rushmore pilot about the duct tape on the 

Bell, what was the next step in your 

investigation on August 7th? 

A Inspector Dunmire and myself, we 

traveled from the location in Keystone up to 

Black Hills Aerial Adventures, near Custer. 

Q And, why did you decide to go to 

Custer? 

A Went there to speak with Mr. 

Jacob, and to get a copy of the flight 

schedule for the previous day. 

Q I'm showing you what's been marked 

as Agency Exhibit 3. Can you take a look at 

that? 

(202) 234-4433 

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(Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

Agency Exhibit No. 3.) 

(Whereupon, the witness was 

proffered the document.) 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Do you recognize that exhibit? 

A Yes. 

Q And, how do you recognize that? 

A It's a copy of the schedule that 

we received from Mr. Jacob that day at Black 

Hills Aerial Adventures. 

Q Okay. And, that was received in 

Custer? 

A At Custer, yes. 

Q And, what's the date of that 

flight schedule? 

A 8/6 of '09. 

Q And, is this a true copy of the 

flight schedule you received from Mr. Jacob on 

August 7th, for the flight schedules on August 

(202) 234^1433 

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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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6th? 

A Yes. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency would like to move Agency Exhibit 3 

into evidence at this time. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. 

Jacob, any objection? 

MR. JACOB: No objection, Your 

Honor. However, I do note that the flight 

schedules are dated August 6th, instead of one 

being dated August 7th. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

You can bring that up, make sure that you 

highlight that in your case in chief. 

Exhibit 3 for identification is 

received into evidence as Exhibit 3. 

(Whereupon, the document 

previousl y marke d for 

identification as Agency Exhibit 

3, was received in evidence.) 

Q 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

I'm now showing th e witness what's 

(202) 234-4433 

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marked as Agency Exhibit 4. Can you take a 

look at that one? 

(Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

Agency Exhibit No. 4.) 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q And, do you recogni ze this 

document? 

A Yes. 

Q What is it? 

A It's a copy of the flight schedule 

received from Ms. Weller on August 7th, at 

Rushmore Helicopters. 

Q And, did you receive it at the 

Keystone location? 

A Yes, at the Keystone location. 

Q And, I see on there that it' s 

actually marked, as Mr. Jacob just pointed 

out, August 6th of 2007, is that correct? 

A Yes. After we received a copy of 

it, actually, after we talked to Mr. Leffert 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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and we were leaving, on our way over to the 

Custer location is when we realized that the 

date was marked incorrectly. 

Q So, how do you know that this is, 

actually, the August 7th schedule, when it's 

marked August 6th? 

A When Ms. Weller, this is the only 

schedule that she had, it was for that day. 

She said all the previous days' schedules they 

didn't even have them there, they were at the 

other location in Custer. And so , this is the 

only one that was there, and she said it was 

for that day. 

Q Other than the yellow highlighter 

marks that are on that schedule, is there any 

- - is that a fair and accurate copy of the 

flight schedule that Ms. Weller handed you on 

August 7th, and told you that it was the 

August 7th flight schedule? 

A This seems accurate, yes, correct. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency would like to move Agency Exhibit 4 

(202) 234-4433 

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into evidence at this time. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr 

Jacob? 

MR. JACOB: I would just question, 

mine are marked Exhibits 1 and 2. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 1 and 2 

are the photographs. 

MS . MARTINO: I'll ask Mr. 

Kwasniewski a few questions about that. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q I notice on the bottom of that 

page there's some markings that say Exhibit 1 

and Exhibit 2 next to "for official use only." 

A Yes. 

Q What are those markings? 

A I guess I don't know. 

Q Could those markings be part of 

the enforcement package that you put together? 

A Yes, they could be. 

Q Okay. 

A Yes, I don't believe I put them 

there, but, yes, they could be part of the 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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package, yes. 

Q Okay. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency again moves Agency Exhibit 4 into 

evidence at this time. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Mr. Jacob, that would be a subject of proper 

cross examination. 

MR. JACOB: I have no objection, 

sir. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: No, 

that's okay. Exhibit 4 for identification is 

received in evidence as Exhibit 4. I'm going 

to allow Mr. Jacob some latitude in referring 

to the markings on these on cross. 

(Whereupon, the document 

previousl y marke d for 

identification as Agency Exhibit 

4, was received in evidence.) 

ahead . 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 

BY MS. MARTINO 

Go 

(202) 234-4433 

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Q Inspector Kwasniewski, according 

to Exhibit 4, how many flights did Rushmore 

Helicopters operate in 6 8 Whiskey on August 

7th of 2009? 

A There are ten entries for 6 8 

Whiskey on that day. 

Q And, were all of those flights 

conducted in the Bell with the duct tape over 

the fuel cap? 

A According to what Mr. Leffert had 

said, yes. They lost the fuel cap the day 

before, and they said, you know, they didn't 

have it, and they -- apparently, they 

determined that the fuel cap was not an 

airworthiness issue at the time, so they 

continued to operate on the 7th. So, yes. 

Q Okay. And, how many passengers, 

does that flight log tell you how many 

passengers were on those, approximately, ten 

flights? 

A 27, if I counted correctly. 

Q Now, you said that you also went 

(202) 234-4433 

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to the Custer location and got the flight 

schedule for the day before, August 6th of 

' 09? 

A Yes. 

Q Do you know whether any of those 

flights were conducted with duct tape over the 

fuel cap? 

A I don't believe they were. 

Q Going back, you also said that you 

and Inspector Dunmire had driven to the 

Respondent's other location in Custer, South 

Dakota, which is where you got that exhibit of 

the prior day's flight log? 

A Yes. 

Q When you got to that location, did 

you speak with anyone from Rushmore 

Helicopters? 

A Yes, I spoke to Mr. Jacob. 

Q And, who is Mr. Jacob again? 

A Mr. Jacob is the President and 

owner of Black Hills Aerial Adventures and 

Rushmore Helicopters. 

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Q Okay. And, what did you discuss 

with Mr. Jacob? 

A A couple things. We wanted to get 

that flight schedule for the day, and also we 

had a short discussion on how to get the 

helicopter back, since it did not have a fuel 

cap on it. 

well. 

And, Mr. Leffert showed up as 

Q Did Mr. Jacob tell you whether or 

not he knew that the fuel cap was missing from 

the Bell 206? 

A No, at that time he said he didn't 

know until the morning of the 7th. 

Q And, would that have been prior to 

the flight --

A Yes. 

Q Did Mr. Jacob give any indication 

whether he thought it was an airworthiness 

issue to have duct tape on the fuel cap, over 

the fuel port? 

A I was talking to the pilot, and 

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I'm trying to remember the conversation with 

Mr. Jacob, but Mr. Leffert said they did not 

consider that to be an airworthiness issue. 

Q Did you talk to Mr. Jacob about 

anything else at the Custer location? 

A Nothing I can remember. 

Q Did you speak with anyone else 

while you were at the Custer location? 

A Mr. Leffert showed up as well. He 

was a bit upset. He tried to get Mr. 

Dunmire's pilot certificate, and said he was 

upset, and he was just -- you know, as far as 

his losing his pilot certificate after 4 0 

years over an issue over a fuel cap. 

Q And, did Mr. Dunmire accept Mr. 

Leffert's certificate? 

A No. 

Q Do you know why? 

A It just wouldn't be appropriate 

to. 

Q What did you do after you spoke 

with Mr. Jacob and Mr. Leffert at the Custer 

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office? 

A After that. Inspector Dunmire and 

myself, we left the office, headed to Rushmore 

Helicopters after leaving Custer. And, we 

were leaving the parking lot, and then we 

noticed that the helicopter was there at the 

location in Custer. 

Q And, what did you do about the 

helicopter being at the Custer location? 

A At that time, we didn't do 

anything. I should have gone back, but when 

we returned to the office we called Mr. Jacob 

and asked him, you know, we were kind of 

disappointed that the helicopter was there, 

after we warned them of flying without 

determining the airworthiness. 

And, Mr. Jacob stated that he 

didn't know it was coming back, but he flew it 

back with the duct tape over the fuel port. 

Q Mr. Jacob told you that it was 

flown without --

A Yes, on the telephone. 

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Q During your investigation, did you 

look into who was responsible for maintenance 

for Rushmore Helicopters? 

A Yes, in the Operations Manual it 

says, you know, the pilot is responsible, by 

their Ops Specs, Paragraph 84 9, it says the 

President and agent for service, Mr. Jacob, is 

responsible for maintenance. 

Q Now, I understand that you told 

the Rushmore Helicopters pilot back in 

Keystone that you were concerned about the 

airworthiness of the Bell 206. 

A Yes. 

Q Can you explain what you meant for 

the aircraft to be airworthy? 

A Well, to be airworthy, see Order 

8130.2F, FAA Order 8130. 2F, it states that the 

aircraft has the needed tech certificate and 

be safe for flight. 

And, to be this tech certificate, 

you know, in this case the fuel cap is part of 

the aircraft drawings, it's an essential part. 

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according to the aircraft drawings. And, the 

aircraft drawings are considered part of the 

tech certificate data sheet. 

S, if it's not configured with 

that fuel cap, or properly altered with an SDC 

or - - just that alone would make it unworthy. 

Along with that, as far as safe 

for flight, that's another issue - -

Q And, is that a component of an 

aircraft being airworthy? 

A Yes, you need both components, a 

tech certificate and be safe for flight, both. 

So, just by that alone, it would be considered 

unairworthy. It did not meet the tech 

certificate. 

Q Okay. And, was it safe for 

flight, to have duct tape over the fuel port? 

A As far as being safe for flight, 

the safety is compromised for stuff with duct 

tape, or without anything, there's a 

possibility of fuel contamination, the fuel 

cell, when it's not sealed up. 

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Q And, how does that happen? 

A You know, if the rotor wash, you 

know, dirt, debris, grass, whatever the rotor 

system could have to kick up, could end up in 

the fuel cell. 

Q And, what could happen if there 

was contamination in the fuel cell? 

A In extreme cases, I suppose it 

could clog the fuel filter, even possibly to 

fuel starvation. 

Q Are there any other safety 

concerns about having duct tape over the fuel 

port? 

Yes. As far as if there's some 

sort of incident, like the aircraft rolled 

over, accidents of that type, the crash 

worthiness of the fuel cell isn' t what it 

should be. A lot of fuel could spill, getting 

to a higher risk of a fire. 

And also, another thing to 

consider, or I don't think it was considered 

at the time that the duct tape was put over 

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the port, was whether the filler cap was 

vented or not. 

Q 

aircraft? 

And, how could that influence the 

A Okay. If it was a vented cap, and 

if duct tape sealed up the fuel port, and 

would not allow it to vent, that could, you 

know, cause, you know, partial fuel cell 

collapse, and also could lead to fuel 

starvation as well. 

In this case, that was not the 

case. You know, it was not a vented cap, it 

was vented in another way. But, you know, I 

question whether they -- that was investigated 

before they actually sealed up, put duct tape 

over the filler port. 

Q Now, if this wasn't a vented cap, 

and the duct tape allowed some ventilation, 

could that have caused any problem? 

A Not that I'm aware of. 

Q Okay. 

A As far as fuel cell collapse or 

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anything like that, no. Contamination 

possibly. 

Q During your investigation, did you 

contact Bell Helicopters at all about the 

airworthiness of having duct tape over the 

fuel port? 

A Yes, yes, I did. I contacted a 

technical representative, one out of Colorado, 

and I just ended up in a conversation with one 

out of Minnesota as well. And, they all 

stated that they would consider it 

unairworthy, it should not be operating that 

way. 

Q And, did they explain why they 

felt it was unairworthy? 

A Basically, the same reasons. 

Q During your investigation, did you 

speak with anyone else at Bell Helicopter? 

A Yes, just recently I was talking 

to Engineering at Bell Helicopter, and they 

stated that -- the same thing, that the fuel 

cap was part of the top --an essential part 

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of the top drawing for the helicopter, which 

is part of the tech certificate. And, that 

would be considered unairworthy. And also, it 

raised safety concerns as well. 

Q Inspector, I'm handing you what's 

been marked as Agency Exhibit 7. 

(Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

Agency Exhibit No. 

(Whereupon, the 

proffered the document.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

7.) 

witness was 

Q Do you recognize this? 

Yes. 

Q And, how do you recognize this? 

A It's an email that was sent to me 

by Mr. Dickerson, he' s an engineer with 

Product Support Engineering from Bell 

Helicopter. 

Q What's the date of the email? 

A It's 4/19 of this year. 

Q And, is this a true and accurate 

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copy of the email that Mr. Dickerson sent to 

you on April 19th of this year? 

A Yes, it is. 

Q And, who is Anthony Dickerson? 

A He's the Product Support Engineer 

with Bell Helicopter. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, I'd like 

to move Agency Exhibit 7 into evidence at this 

time. 

Jacob? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr 

MR. JACOB: No objection. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Agency 

Exhibit 7 for identification is received in 

evidence as Agency Exhibit 7. 

(Whereupon, the document 

previousl y marke d for 

identification as Agency Exhibit 

7, was received in evidence.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Changing gears for just a second, 

do you know if Rushmore Helicopters ever 

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considered obtaining a ferry permit, when they 

realized the fuel cap of the Bell 206 was 

missing? 

A Not to my knowledge. 

Q What is a ferry permit? 

A A ferry permit is -- it's for, if 

there's an airworthiness issue, if the 

aircraft does not meet its airworthiness 

requirements, it's, basically, a permit to fly 

the aircraft from wherever the aircraft 

happens to be, usually, to a maintenance 

facility. It's a fairly simple process. The 

aircraft owner or agent for the owner would 

call the office and speak to a maintenance 

inspector at the Flight Standards Office, and 

depending on the situation circumstances, they 

are granted fairly often, and, actually, sent 

to the aircraft owner or their agent again. 

And, once they receive that, they 

can fly the helicopter, usually, in accordance 

with limitations that are stated on the ferry 

permit. That can be done after the - - you 

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have to have a maintenance personnel, have the 

tech certificate and maintenance personnel, 

actually, inspect the aircraft and sign a log 

book as safe for that flight. 

Q And, are you aware whether or not 

a ferry permit was requested? 

A I'm not aware of any, no. 

Q Could they have requested a ferry 

permit? 

A Yes, they could have. 

Q And, if they had asked you, would 

you have granted them one? 

A I believe I would have, yes. 

Of course, they wouldn't have been 

able to fly the passengers, or anything like 

that, it would just be a flight with the 

essential personnel only. Probably there 

would have been something in the DAR, maybe, 

you know, a straight and level flight, and 

that type of thing. There would have been 

limitations with the ferry permit. 

MS. MARTINO: One minute. 

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your time. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Take 

BY MS. MARTINO 

Q Inspector, I'm handing you what's 

been marked as Agency Exhibit 5. 

(Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

Agency Exhibit No. 5.) 

(Whereupon, the witness was 

proffered the document.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Do you recognize that? 

A Yes, I do. 

Q What is it? 

A It' s a letter received from Mr. 

Leffert, I believe it's in response to our 

letter of investigation. 

Q Was there a separate investigation 

and violation against Mr. Leffert? 

A There was a separate investigation 

of Mr. Leffert, yes. 

Q And, is the same copy of the 

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letter that you received in response to the 

letter of investigation from Mr. Leffert? 

A I believe so, other than the 

highlighting, yes. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency moves Exhibit 5 into evidence at this 

time . 

Jacob? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr 

MR. JACOB: I have no objections. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Agency 

Exhibit 5 for identification is received into 

evidence as Agency Exhibit 5. 

(Whereupon, the document 

previousl y marke d for 

identification as Agency Exhibit 

5, was received in evidence.) 

BY MS. P4ARTIN0: 

Q Inspector, I'm handing you what's 

been marked as Agency Exhibit 6. 

(Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

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Agency Exhibit No. 6.) 

(Whereupon, the witness was 

proffered the document.) 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Can you take a look at all four 

pages of that exhibit? Do you recognize that 

document? 

A Yes, it's an Order 2150.3B, it's a 

Compliance and Enforcement order. 

Q Is it the whole Compliance and 

Enforcement order? 

A Just a portion of it, just four 

pages of that order. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, I'd like 

to move Agency Exhibit 6 into evidence at this 

time. 

Jacob? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. 

MR. JACOB: I have no objection. 

Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Agency 

Exhibit 6 for identification is received into 

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evidence as Agency Exhibit 6. 

(Whereupon, the document 

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identification as Agency Exhibit 

6, was received in evidence.) 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency has no further questions of Inspector 

Kwasniewski at this time. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. 

Jacob, you have the right to ask the witness 

questions. 

MR. JACOB: Thank you. 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q Good morning. Inspector. 

A Good morning. 

Q I'11 first apologize for my lack 

of corporate etiquette and so forth. 

Gary, you indicated that on August 

7th you spoke with Mary Davis? 

A Yes. 

Q Regarding her complaint? 

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Q 

Yes. 

At that time, she did not indicate 

which aircraft she felt was affected? 

A She said it was a red one, I 

believe other than that, no. 

Q How many red aircraft did you 

observe at the Rushmore location on that day? 

A That one, for sure. 

Q To the best of your knowledge, and 

your familiarity with our operations with both 

Black Hills Aerial Adventures and Rushmore 

Helicopters, how many red helicopters we have 

in our fleet? 

A I don't know. 

Q In regards to the tape over the 

fuel port, you indicated you felt that that 

constitute safety of the flight? 

A Safety was compromised, I believe, 

yes . 

Q And, if you had seen passengers 

embark from that flight that felt that that 

was an unsafe operation, you would not have 

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stopped that immediately? 

A If -- as far as stopping that, I 

believe you are referring to stopping that 

flight that day. 

Q Preventing passengers from 

boarding the aircraft. 

A I would have spoken to the pilot 

about it, and informed him earlier --at that 

time I would have informed of the -- there may 

be a violation of the regulations at that 

time. 

But, at that particular time, I 

didn't. My own safety, I didn't feel I should 

be running out to go in front of the 

helicopter that was starting to take off. 

Q I wasn't there, so I can't ask you 

questions about what Mr. Leffert may testify 

about. 

When you were speaking with Ms. 

Davis, was that helicopter visible from that 

location? 

A I -- i t may have been. I don't 

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remember, I know there was activity. You 

know, we saw helicopters coming and going. I 

don't know if that helicopter -- I don't know 

exactly when that helicopter arrived. 

Q But, that location was visible 

from --

Yes. 

Yes, from the restaurant, yes. 

Q And, you were sent to that 

location, specifically, because of the 

complaint. You indicated the duct tape was 

placed over the fuel port. 

A Yes. 

Q Speaking with Ms. Davis, though, 

you had no idea how many times the aircraft 

came and went from that location? 

A She said it had been flying -- it 

had come and gone, I believe she said. I 

don't -- I don't remember exactly if she, you 

know, actually, stated how many times it had 

come and gone. 

Q After you spoke with Mr. Leffert, 

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you did observe him get back in the helicopter 

and continue another flight, however? 

A I'm sorry? 

Q You spoke briefly with Mr. 

Leffert, you testified, and then you allowed 

him to climb back in the helicopter and 

proceed with another flight? 

A When the aircraft was at the 

fueling -- over by the fueling pad, we spoke 

to him briefly, and asked him if there were 

any airworthiness issues, and he said no. 

And, at that point I had no reason 

to doubt what he said. 

Q Except he was operating the red 

helicopter on the location, assuming you 

thought had duct tape over it? 

A It may. 

Q When you spoke with - - again, I 

have to apologize, I'm a bit confused on this 

also being dated the 6th on the 7th. You 

indicated that Mariah Weller gave you one of 

them. 

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A Mariah Weller gave me the copy 

that we received on the 7th. I believe that's 

the one with the highlighted marking on it. 

Q But, it's dated the 6th also. 

A Yes, they are both dated the 6th. 

Q And then, according to your 

testimony, I provided you the one that was 

dated the 6th, the previous day? 

A Yes, when we went to that location 

in Custer, either you or -- I had spoken to 

you about it, and I don't know if you 

instructed someone in your office to give us 

a copy, or if you personally handed it to me. 

I don't know, but we asked for it from you. 

Q When you looked at this report 

that Ms. Weller provided you, did you notice 

that there's a lot of scribbling marks and so 

forth on there? 

A Yes. 

Q And, it's apparent that she gets 

confused quite easily, as to who is doing what 

and when? That's kind of apparent, I would 

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MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, 

objection. That's speculation. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 

Overruled. 

MR. JACOB: I have no further 

questions along those lines. 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q Have you had the opportunity in 

your career to work on a Bell 206? 

A Not on a Bell 206. 

Q And, you are familiar with the 

fuel system of the 206? 

A I'm fairly familiar with it. 

Q And, it has a 76-gallon capacity, 

just the general layout of the fuel? 

A Yes, other than looking at my 

familiarity, I guess I've look through the 

Maintenance Manual a bit, and am, basically, 

familiar with the layout of it. I don't 

remember the fuel capacity. 

Q Would you say that different 

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people could have different opinions about the 

airworthiness, different Bell engineers, tech 

reps, could have different, varying opinions, 

depending on who you spoke with? 

A I spoke to three of them, and they 

all gave me the same answer. 

Q But, would you think it's possible 

that a different rep could have a different 

interpretation? 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, 

objection again. That's speculation. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 

Overruled. 

THE WITNESS: I suppose it's 

possible another engineer could have another 

opinion. But again, three separate, two 

technical representatives and an engineer with 

Bell all stated that they considered it 

unairworthy for several reasons. 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q Well, I guess just hypothetically, 

if we were to have spoken with an engineer 

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from Bell Helicopter on the day in question, 

and he indicated that the fuel cap was not a 

structural component of the aircraft, and that 

in his opinion it did not constitute an 

airworthiness issue, and that he would issue 

a letter of non-objection, do you think that 

hypothetically that would be a possibility? 

A It's not considered a structural 

component? 

Q If another engineer had made that 

statement. 

A I'm sorry, could you ask the 

question again? I'm confused. 

Q Just hypothetically, if another 

engineer, separate from who you had spoken 

with, had rendered his opinion as regarding 

the fact that it's not a structural component 

of the aircraft, and in his opinion that it 

did not constitute an airworthiness issue, and 

that that - - by placing duct tape over the 

fuel port it kept contaminants out of the 

system, and he would forward a letter of non-

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obj ection, do you think that was a 

possibility? 

A I find it hard to believe. 

Q Okay. 

MR. JACOB: I guess I don't have 

anymore questions at this point. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Any 

redirect? 

MS. MARTINO: Just very briefly. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Inspector Kwasniewski, how do you 

know that Exhibit 4, although it's dated 

August 6th of 2009, is, actually, the flight 

schedule for August 7th of 2009? 

A In the office, at Rushmore 

Helicopters, that was the only schedule for 

the day. Ms. Weller told us that was the 

schedule for the day, and all previous flight 

schedules are taken to the other location at 

Black Hills Aerial Adventures in Custer. So, 

the only schedule that they had was that one 

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for that day, and she took it out of the 

binder in front of us, turned around and made 

a copy of it, and handed it to us. 

Q Do you remember allowing Mr. 

Leffert to fly with passengers, after you did 

realize that there was duct tape over the fuel 

cap, was there any way, once you realized that 

there was duct tape on the cap that you could 

have safely stopped him from taking off? 

A I didn't feel I could do it 

safely. 

MS. MARTINO: Nothing further. 

Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Any 

further questions of this witness? Do you 

want him to remain or is he free to go? 

MS. MARTINO: I'd like him to 

remain. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Sir, you are excused and I instruct you not to 

discuss your testimony with anybody prior to 

the conclusion of the hearing. You can stay 

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out in that area. 

excused.) 

(Whereupon, the witness was 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Cal 1 

your next witness. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, the 

Agency calls Mr. Robert Leroy Leffert. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Sir, 

stand and raise your right hand. 

Please, be seated, and state your 

full name for the record, and spell your first 

and last name. 

MR. LEFFERT: Robert Leroy 

Leffert, R-0-B-E-R-T L-E-R-0-Y L-E-F-F-E-RT. I go by the nickname of Lee. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Go ahead. 

WHEREUPON, 

ROBERT LEROY LEFFERT 

was called for examination by Counsel for the 

Agency, and having been first duly sworn, 

testified as follows: 

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DIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Mr. Leffert, do you hold any FAA 

certificates? 

A Yes, I do. 

Q What is it? 

A It's a Commercial Fixed Wing, 

Single Engine Helicopter Rotor Craft. 

Q And, were you employed by Rushmore 

Helicopters on August 6th and August 7th of 

2009? 

A Yes, ma'am. 

Q And, what was your position there? 

A Pilot. 

Q When you were employed on August 

6th of '09, were you working that day? 

A Yes. 

Q And, did you fly one of Rushmore's 

helicopters that day? 

A Yes, I did. 

Q Do you remember which helicopte r 

you flew? 

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A 68 Whiskey. 

Q What happened that day in regards 

to 68 Whiskey? 

A On the, what was it, I guess the 

7th I guess it was, the 6th, yes, on the 6th, 

I had refueled and one of the ground crew came 

over to help, and she was having some problems 

putting the hoses away and I got distracted a 

little bit. 

And, the fuel cap didn't get put 

on. And, I went ahead and relocated from the 

fuel pad to the loading pad, picked up my 

passengers and took off. 

And then, after I was in the air 

for a couple of minutes, it was one of those 

things that, I think I forgot the fuel cap. 

So, I made a U-turn, came back and 

landed, and told my passengers there was no 

emergency, but I had to check something out. 

And, when I got down on the 

ground, unloaded the passengers, I looked back 

and the fuel cap was, indeed, missing. 

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So, I --

Q Were you able to find it that day? 

A Yes, I did. I immediately shut 

down the aircraft, and then went to look for 

the fuel cap. 

I fully expected to see it laying 

on the ground between the refueling pad and 

the loading pad, but it wasn't there. 

So, I looked all over, I followed 

my flight path as far as I could into the 

woods, and I probably spent an hour looking 

for it. 

And then about that time, I called 

Mike and said I' ve lost a fuel cap, and I 

wondered if he had a spare. 

He said no, that he didn't have 

one, but I should go over to the hangar that 

was used by the owner of the facility that 

Mike was leasing out, and see if I could find 

a fuel cap there. 

Q And, that's all at the Keystone 

location? 

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A All at the Keystone location. 

And so, I went into the hangar and 

I found a couple three or four fuel caps, 

brought them out to the helicopter, and none 

of them fit. 

So, I called up Mike again, and 

Mike was unavailable. He was gone doing 

something else. 

Q Did you leave a voice message or 

anything? 

A No, I didn't even do that. I just 

tried to call him, is Mike there, no, he's not 

here right now, 

Q So, what did you do? 

A And so, not knowing what else to 

do, I went ahead and got some duct tape, put 

it over the fuel port to keep debris out, and 

maybe any ciphoning in the fuel that might 

occur while I was in the air, and flew back to 

the Crazy Horse Heliport. 

Q And, is that in Custer, South 

Dakota? 

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A That's just outside of Custer. 

Q What happened when you got back to 

that location? 

A Mike wasn't there still, and so I 

went ahead and shut down the aircraft, and we 

pushed it back into the hangar, and then I 

left for the day. 

And, the next morning I came back 

at the regular time, and Mike assigned people 

to fly the various locations, and he assigned 

me to fly back at Keystone. 

Q In the same helicopter? 

A In the same helicopter. 

Q Okay. What did you do? 

A And then, we discussed the lack of 

the fuel cap, and we bantered that back and 

forth a little bit, and then based upon the 

information that I had with the fuel cap not 

really being a structural component of the 

helicopter, and with the fuel loads that we 

were flying with, which was a half to, 

approximately, an eighth of a tank, very low 

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fuel loads, just trying to keep the weights 

down so we could fly the passengers more 

safely. 

There was another fuel cap that 

was already ordered, it was on its way, and it 

was safe to temporarily use duct tape to cover 

the port. 

Q How do you know that a fuel cap 

had been ordered? 

A Mike said so. 

Q And, that was before your flights 

on August 7th? 

A Yes. And then, I went ahead and 

flew, and then the FAA gentlemen were there to 

greet me that afternoon. 

And, when I first saw them, the 

fuel cap hadn't even entered my mind. I 

figured it was just a routine ramp check that 

they were out there for. 

So, I went over and asked them --

I went over and asked them if I could help 

them. They said they needed to talk to me. 

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and then they asked me if I had anymore 

passengers waiting. 

I said, yes, I had another load 

waiting. 

He said, go ahead and fly those, 

when you get back then we'll talk. 

I said okay, so I went ahead and 

made my flight, then I came back. They came 

out to greet me at the helicopter. 

Q When you first talked to them, did 

you tell them that there was duct tape over 

the fuel cap? 

A No. 

Q Okay. And --

A It wasn't mentioned, I wasn't even 

thinking about it. 

Q Okay. And, then when you took 

your last flight and came down, and they came 

out to greet you again, what did they tell 

you? 

A They said that I was in violation 

because of the duct tape over is a violation 

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of, it was 91.7 I think it was. A, and that 

they were grounding me. 

And so, we discussed that for, oh, 

probably about 15-20 minutes or so, and that 

was, basically, what happened. 

Q Okay. Did the Agency initiate an 

enforcement action against your certificate, 

in regards to this case? 

A Yes, they did. Following the 

incident, I went ahead and filed a NASA 

report, and in correspondence with the FAA 

they were going to suspend my license for, I 

think it was, 60 days, and then after an 

informal telephone conference with Chris, I 

can't remember what his last name was --

Q Zurales? 

A -- yes, that it was reduced to a 

3 0-day suspension. 

And then, because of the NASA 

report that suspension was suspended. 

Q Do you know how many f1ights you 

took on August 7th of '09 with duct tape over 

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1 the fuel port? 

2 A According to the records, there 

3 was about ten flights. I don't remember doing 

4 that many, but that was, apparently, the case, 

5 Q Do you remember whether or not you 

6 refueled at all after you --do you remember 

7 refueling at all, either at Custer or at 

8 Keystone, on August 7th of '09? 

9 A Well, I fueled the aircraft up in 

10 Custer before I left, and that was standard 

11 procedures. You go ahead and fuel up for the 

12 day. 

13 Q So, that morning you refueled. 

14 A That morning I refueled. 

15 Q Did you have to take the duct tape 

16 off to refuel? 

17 A Yes. 

18 Q And, did you put the same duct 

19 tape back on? 

20 A Well, not the same, but I put duct 

21 tape on, fresh duct tape, yes. 

22 II Q And, do you remember refueling any 

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Other time that day? 

A I do not remember refueling any 

that day, but it would have been the same 

procedure if I would have refueled, I would 

have removed the duct tape and then put fresh 

duct tape over the port. 

Q Okay. Do you know how long it 

took for Rushmore Helicopters to get the fuel 

cap for that Bell 206? 

A I don't know. Af t er I 1anded on 

the 7th, I went ahead and cleaned out my 

locker and left,because the next day was going 

to be my last day anyway. And, so I don't 

know when the fuel cap arrived. 

Q Okay. 

A It was after I left. 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, if I may 

have just a moment. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Sure. 

MS. MARTINO: Nothing further for 

Mr. Leffert. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

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Mr. Jacob? 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q Good morning. 

A Good morning. 

Q You've already testified to length 

of employment with Black Hill Aerial 

Adventures and Rushmore Helicopters. 

A I don't think --

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: I don't 

think he did. 

THE WITNESS: I don't think I said 

MR. JACOB: I'm sorry. 

THE WITNESS: I was under their 

employment for, basically, a season and three 

quarters, the year before that, and then up 

through August 7th of that particular year, of 

that. 

' 09. 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q Could you describe for me a little 

bit about your previous flying history? 

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A I graduated from military flight 

school in 1968, and went to Vietnam, spent 

tour as a combat pilot. I came back to the 

States in '69, and had a two year tour at Ft. 

Walters, Texas as an instructor pilot. 

Then after that, I decided to get 

out of the military, go back to school, get my 

degree, and I, after graduation, got a job 

with the U.S. Forest Service, and then I 

joined the National Guard. And then, I flew 

for the National Guard for about 20 years, as 

a medication evacuation pilot and instructor 

pilot. 

Q So, you have extensive helicopter 

experience. 

A Yes, I do. 

Q Approximately, how many flight 

hours? 

A About 4,500 total right now. 

Q Would you ever consider operating 

an aircraft, especially a helicopter, if you 

felt it was unsafe or unairworthy? 

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A I would not. That was one of the 

things that, especially being in the medical 

evacuation, safety was drilled into our heads. 

Q At any t ime that you' ve been 

employed by Black Hills Aerial Adventures or 

Rushmore Helicopters, have you ever been 

ordered to fly an aircraft against your will, 

for threat of termination or any other threat? 

A I have not. 

Q Have you always been allowed the 

latitude to -- flying aircraft? 

A Yes, I have. 

Q Are you familiar -- or, I'm sorry, 

do you recall a telephone conversation that we 

discussed on the morning of August 7th, prior 

to you departing Black Hills Aerial 

Adventures? 

A No, I was not privy to a 

conversation. It was just a conversation about 

a conversation. 

Q During which we discussed the 

conversation that we had had with the Bell 

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A Yes. 

Q Do you recall any of the details 

that were expressed to you regarding this 

conversation? 

A The basic gist of the conversation 

was that the Bell tech had been contacted, and 

the fuel cap was not considered to be a 

structural component of the helicopter, and 

though not recommended, based upon the fuel 

loads that we were doing, and the new fuel cap 

being ordered, that though not recommended it 

was not a violation of regulations that I flew 

without a fuel cap. 

And, based upon that information 

that I had at the time, and conversing with 

some of the other pilots informally that were 

in the bay, we decided that putting duct tape 

over the port was not considered to be a 

safety hazard or a non-airworthy condition, 

and I flew. 

Q And, one the pilots you had a 

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conversation with, I believe, was Mr. Roger 

Dubbs. 

I believe Roger was one of them. 

yes 

Q And, his capacity with our 

organization is? 

A He was chief pilot. 

Q Are you familiar with any of his 

qualifications? 

A Roger has been flying, I think he 

started in ' 66 if I remember right, and he was 

an instructor pilot for many years at the 

South Dakota National Guard here in Rapid 

City, and then he became facility commander, 

retired a full colonel. 

Q And, during your conversation with 

Mr. Dubbs on that morning, did he indicate an 

airworthiness or safety issue to you? 

A Wei1, we talked about the duct 

tape, and in his mind he did not believe that 

it was an issue. 

Q When you first encountered 

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inspectors from the FAA at the heliport in 

Keystone, were you currently on a flight with 

passengers at that time? 

A I had just returned from a flight, 

and I saw them standing out in front of the 

office. 

Q And, what happened then? 

A I went over to them and asked them 

what they wanted, and they told me that he 

needed to talk to me, and they then asked me 

if I had any flights pending. I said, yes, 

there was a load waiting, and he said go ahead 

and fly that, when you come back then they 

wanted to talk to me, and that's what I did. 

Q Can you recall in your initial 

conversation with them, did they ask you, 

specifically, about any airworthiness issues 

with your aircraft? 

A No. 

Q Did they ask you about duct tape 

over the fuel port? 

A No. 

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Q So, you are indicating to me that 

they told you to go ahead, load your 

passengers, and do the flight? 

A Yes. 

Q What happened after that? 

A I landed, and then they came out 

to the aircraft. I unloaded my passengers, 

and then I was informed that I was flying an 

unairworthy aircraft. 

Q During your initial conversation, 

they mentioned nothing whatsoever about the 

aircraft being unairworthy? 

A As far as I can remember, the only 

thing that they said was that they needed to 

talk to me, and that was the extent of the 

conversation. 

Q And, you also already indicated 

that you have been sanctioned by the FAA for 

your Part 91 flight operation? 

A That's correct. I have been. 

MR. JACOB: I have no further 

questions. 

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ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Any 

redirect? 

MS. MARTINO: Just quickly. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Mr. Leffert, did you appeal the 

Notice of Proposed Sanction that was issued 

against your pilot certificate? 

A To the point where I had an 

informal consultation with the lawyers. 

Q Okay. And, once the order of 

suspension was issued, did you appeal that? 

A No, I did not. 

Q When the inspectors first came out 

to the Keystone location, I understand that 

you approached each other. Did you tell the 

inspectors that the fuel port had duct tape on 

it? 

No, I did not. They didn't ask, 

and I didn't say. 

Q Okay. 

MS. MARTINO: Nothing further, 

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Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

It's 10:20. We are going to take -- sir, you 

are excused, and I'm going to instruct you not 

to discuss your testimony with anybody prior 

to the conclusion of the hearing. 

It's up to counsel whether you 

need to remain. 

{Whereupon, the witness was 

excused. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: We will 

take between a ten, 15-minute break. We'll 

reconvene between 10:30 and 10:35. 

Zurales is 2-U-R-A-L-E-S. 

Then we are off the record. 

(Whereupon, at 10:19 a.m., a 

recess until 10:42 a.m.) 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Back on 

the record. 

Call your next witness. 

MS - MARTINO: The Agency would 

like to call Mr. James Bad Horse. 

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Okay. Please be seated. State 

your first and last name for the record. 

MR. BAD HORSE: James Bad Horse. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: I see 

your ID looks exactly like mine. 

Spell your first and last name, 

please. 

MR. BAD HORSE: J-A-M-E-S, last 

name Bad Horse, two words, B-A-D H-O-R-S-E, 

just like it sounds. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 

Counsel? 

WHEREUPON, 

JAMES BAD HORSE 

was called for examination by Counsel for the 

Agency, and having been first duly sworn, 

testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Mr. Bad Horse, do you hold any FAA 

certificates? 

A Yes. I'm a certificate d Air Frame 

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and Power Plant Mechanic. 

Q And, how 1 ong have you he 1 d that 

certificate? 

A Oh, since 1985. 

Q And, since --

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: So, you 

are getting like me, people ask me how old my 

kids are, and I have to sit down and say, let 

me see. You have to do the math. 

THE WITNESS: Yes. And, I also 

hold an inspection authorization as well. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q And, how have you used your A&P 

since 1985? 

A Oh, I've worked for several 

companies. I worked for a company overseas, 

where we operated, it was a Government 

contract, working for the Army, had to return 

to service helicopters, fixed wing aircraft. 

And then, worked for a computer 

airline service out of Grand Dow, Nebraska, 

where we used our A&P license to actually 

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return the aircraft to service with passengers 

on board. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN; Who's 

out of Grand Island? 

THE WITNESS: Used to be GP 

Express Airlines. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

THE WITNESS: They went bankrupt 

in '97, I believe. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes, I 

do a lot of the regional carriers. I just 

kind of mentally keep track of these. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q How often do you use your A&P? 

A Oh, with the agency, it helped me 

get on with the Agency having an A&P. So, it 

helped me get the job here. 

Q What is your job now? 

A Aviation Safety Inspector. 

Q And, are you located at the Rapid 

City FSDO? 

Yes, I am 

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MS. MARTINO: And, that's a Flight 

Standards District Office. 

Q 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

I' m sorry, you said you were a 

maintenance inspector? 

A Maintenance Airworthiness 

Inspector. 

Q And, do you have experience with 

Bell helicopters? 

A Well, I've worked on the Huey, the 

2 -- I believe it's the civilian version is 

the 205, and I've also been --

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: H-U-EY. 

THE WITNESS: With the Agency, 

I' ve been involved with the AIMS operators 

since 1998. 

H-U-E-Y. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Huey is 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 

didn't want to throw him a curve ball. 

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THE WITNESS: The operators that 

I've managed, had oversight over, in the past 

since '98 have operated 206s, a variety of 

aircraft. And, I did attend Bell 206 field 

training in Texas here in 2008, I believe. 

So, I'm familiar with the systems 

on the Bell 206. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q 

A 

The 206B? 

Yes. 

Q Are you familiar with the 

investigation into Rushmore Helicopters' 

operations on August 7th of 2009? 

A Yes, I am. Gary Kwasniewski and 

Barry Dunmire first initially took the call as 

a complaint. 

Q How were you, actually, involved? 

A Well, I am the principal 

maintenance inspector for Rushmore Helicopters 

and Black Hills Aerial, for Mr. Jacob. So, 

they went up on a Friday, and I wasn't 

available, and we went up on the following 

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Tuesday, which was on the 11th, we went up to 

Keystone and we were going to speak with the 

pilot, Mr. Leffert, at that time. We got up 

there and he had left the area and went --we 

understood, he went back to Colorado. 

So, we visited with Shane 

Esponoza, another helicopter pilot there. He 

was operating the R44s, the Robinsons. 

Q And, he is a Rushmore Helicopters 

pilot? 

A Yes, yes, he is. 

And, we were visiting about it, 

and he - - we were informed by Mr. Esponoza 

that if there's any occurrences or anything 

that needs attention, he said it's company 

policy to call Mr. Jacob and let him -- inform 

him. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Could 

you spell Esponoza? 

THE WITNESS: Oh, I believe it's 

E-S-P-A-N-Z-0. 

MR. JACOB: E-S-P-0-N-O-Z-A, I 

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believe. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Pick 

whichever one you like. 

THE WITNESS: I think it's 

probably in my statement, the spelling of his 

name. 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Did you speak with anyone else at 

Rushmore Helicopters? 

A No, not at Keystone. 

Then we went up, we left there, 

then we went up and visited with Mike about 

the occurrence. 

Q And, did you go to Custer? 

A Yes. 

Q To speak to Mike Jacob. 

A Yes, we did. 

Q Okay. And, what did you talk 

about with Mr. Jacob then? 

A What we asked him about, the 

occurrence with fuel cap. And, first he said 

he wasn't aware of it. 

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But, the aircraft had flown a 

number of flights that day, and that he did 

order a fuel cap, and it was on order. 

Q Okay. There's an allegation that 

the aircraft was unairworthy by having duct 

tape over the fuel port. Could you briefly 

explain what it means when an aircraft is 

unairworthy? 

A Okay. You probably heard this 

again, I'm just going to go ahead and repeat 

it again. For an aircraft to be airworthy it 

has to meet a type certificate, and must be 

safe for flight. 

Q Now - -

A A type certificate is, you know, 

the aircraft is manufactured and it came out 

of the factory with, obviously, in this case, 

a fuel cap, so that is part of type design for 

the type certificate. 

The concerns I would have with 

that helicopter, regardless of how much fuel 

is in the tank, is it's still not -- it does 

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not meet type design. It does not meet its 

type certificate, and if there was any type of 

occurrence, should the helicopter have gone 

down for any reason, that fuel cap is there 

for a purpose, to prevent any spillage should 

it roll on its side, cause flame or damage. 

Q I want to back up. The fuel cap 

not being on the aircraft, does that meet the 

airworthiness requirement that it complied 

with -- conformed with the tech certificate? 

A It not being on the aircraft, it 

is not airworthy. 

Q Okay. 

A It does not conform to its type 

design. 

Q And, I heard you say that there's 

also a safety component to an aircraft being 

airworthy. Having the duct tape over the fuel 

port, was that a condition safe for flight 

making it airworthy? 

A The duct tape is not - - is not an 

airworthy condition. 

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Q Okay. Can you explain why it 

would be unsafe to have duct tape rather than 

the approved fuel cap? 

A Well again, if the aircraft had 

gone down for any reason, and it had landed on 

its side, or whatever, now we have a chance of 

the fuel spilling out and possibly causing a 

fire . 

Q Is there any other reason why the 

duct tape would be unsafe? 

A Well, the other thing that I was 

thinking at the time is, if this was the only 

vented -- the vent in the system, and it was 

duct taped over, then possibly the tanks could 

col lapse, and when that happens then there 

would be fuel starvation and then the engine 

would quit, and, of course, the aircraft is 

going to be forced to land. 

And, in this case, it wasn't the 

only vent in the system. 

Q Do you know i f Rushmore 

Helicopters was aware of that when they used 

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duct tape over the fuel port? 

A I don't believe they were aware of 

that. 

Q Is there any other reason why duct 

tape would be unsafe, with regards to the fuel 

contamination 

A That's a possibility, getting fuel 

contaminants in there. 

Q And, how could that be a problem? 

A Well, if the duct tape was -- on 

landing, and if it wasn't completely secured 

up, I would say with the rotor washes that is 

running, taking up all the dust, debris, it 

could possibly get -- find its way into the 

fuel cell. 

Q Okay. Another witness has 

testified that the aircraft was operating with 

maybe a 1/4 of a fuel tank. Does that have 

any effect on whether or not this aircraft was 

airworthy when it flew with duct tape over the 

fuel port? 

A Again, the aircraft still does not 

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meet type design. It is not in compliance 

with its type certificate. 

Q Okay. 

MS. MARTINO: That's all I have. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Cross 

examination? 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q Hi, Jim. 

A Hi, Mike. 

Q You've indicated you are the 

principal maintenance inspector for both Black 

Hills Aerial and Rushmore Helicopters? 

A Yes. 

Q During the course of time that 

you've been principal inspector, have you had 

an occasion to inspect the facility 

maintenance records, and so on and so forth? 

A Yes, I have. 

Q Conduct any surveillance regarding 

Rushmore or Black Hills Aerial Adventures? 

A Yes, we have. As a matter of 

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fact, there was a couple instances. The last 

time I was up there, I was looking at your --

it was one of the R44s or the Bell 47, I can't 

recall right now, but we did find a belt that 

had been wearing, I recall that. So, the next 

time we go up there we look to find things. 

Q Have you ever, during the course 

of inspection or surveillance, had contact 

with either Black Hills Aerial or Rushmore 

Helicopters, found us to be unwilling to 

cooperate or try to compromise safety in any 

way? 

A I've worked with you over the last 

three years, and you' ve been very helpful, 

giving me whatever information that I' ve 

requested. 

Q Have you noticed that we 

intentionally try to cut corners or penalize 

safety in our operations? 

A No. 

Q You said you've been to the Bell 

school and are familiar with the systems and 

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the aircraft? 

A Well, they give us a general - -

it's a three-day course over the systems. 

Q As far as Ms. Martino, she has 

provided a photograph there of the Bell 206 in 

question, 2268 Whiskey, the fuel port, I think 

she had a picture of the fuel port. She 

asked, specifically, about the vent system on 

the aircraft. 

Are you familiar with wherever the 

external vent of the fuel cell is located on 

the aircraft? 

A Oh, this particular one I'm not 

quite sure without looking at the systems 

again. It's been a while since I looked at 

it. But, from what we've learned on it, I 

guess the fuel cap is not a vented fuel cap. 

There's other -- there's other vents in the 

system, I'm assuming it's down here maybe a 

vent, without looking at the manual. I need 

to look at the manual and verify that. 

Q The question that she posed 

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earlier about us possibly not knowing if this 

was a closed or open system, is there any 

reason that we would not know that there is an 

external vent with this system? 

A Without looking at the manual, how 

would you know? That's what I would -- I'd 

have to look at the manual myself to find out 

if, you know, that was -- if that's -- what 

type of system you do have. 

Q I don't believe her photograph 

shows a vent, I believe the vent system on 

this has a clearly marked vent, which would be 

located above the fuel port. 

A Are we saying that this is the 

vent? 

Q No, I believe that is an overflow. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: For the 

record, looking at Exhibit 2, and if you hold 

it vertically, you can see the duct tape, 

Mr. Jacob, there appear to be two 

accesses inside the aircraft. I assume that 

the one that' s at about 7:00 from the fuel 

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port is a ground? 

MR. JACOB: That is correct. Your 

Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: And, 

the one that's about 9:00 is what you are 

describing as the overflow vent. 

MR. JACOB: That is the overflow. 

This photograph does not depict the vent which 

is located directly above the fuel port. 

THE WITNESS: So, it's underneath 

the duct tape here then? 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q No, I have a diagram over here. 

This depicts the fuel system, which indicates 

that the vent is here. The vent is located 

above the filler cap. 

A So, it's, actually, underneath the 

Q No, it's up here, or it's out of 

the photograph on this one here. 

A Okay. Then, your question was 

again, Mike? 

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Q Is there just any reason that we 

would not be familiar with the fuel system on 

the aircraft that we operate, especially, with 

the fuel -- though the vent is clearly marked 

on the side of the fuselage? 

A One more time. 

Q I know I'm confusing the issue. 

The point has been brought out 

that this possibly could have created a safety 

hazard if this had been a closed, non-vented 

system. 

A Okay, possibly, possibly, but in 

this case it wasn't. So, that wasn't an 

issue. 

The issue is, the duct tape is not 

part of the type design, it does not meet the 

type certificate. It is not airworthy. 

Q Understood. 

In your opinion, is the fuel cap a 

structural component of this aircraft? 

A The aircraft, again, is not -- is 

part of the type design. 

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Q Okay. Your knowledge of the fuel 

system of Bell 206, and the way the fuel tank 

is located and situated, what, in your 

opinion, would be the likelihood of fuel being 

able to splash out of that port, in the event 

that the aircraft was operated, as was 

testified, with, approximately, a quarter of 

a tank of fuel? 

A Let's say, for example, if for any 

reason there was an engine flame out, shut 

down, or an emergency, and he had to set it 

down, and he set it down and the aircraft was 

to roll over, now you've got that fuel coming 

out of this port. And, with a hot engine, 

that fuel, specifically, with a hot engine, is 

-- could be cause for a fire. 

Q That's understood. 

MR. JACOB: I have no other 

questions for Mr. Bad Horse. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Any 

redirect? 

MS. MARTINO: The Agency rests. 

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ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Sir, 

you are excused. You are instructed not to 

discuss your testimony with anybody prior to 

the conclusion of the hearing. 

It's up to Ms. Martino whether you 

need to remain or you can be excused. 

MS. MARTINO: I would ask that he 

stay. 

excused. 

! Whereupon, the witness was 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr. 

Jacob, are you going to offer, in your case in 

chief, that diagram, because it's marked for 

identification, since you referred to it. 

Technically, it's part of the administrative 

record, even though it's not in evidence. 

MR. JACOB; I only have one copy 

that I would offer. 

MS. MARTINO: The Agency will have 

no objection. He can offer it. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Well, he hasn't offered it. It's just marked 

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for identification, that's the point I was 

trying to make. 

MR. JACOB: And, Your Honor, I 

understand that you would like me to mark this 

as a Rushmore exhibit? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: No, 

I'll mark this, if you are not -- when you 

refer to something, generally, it' s marked for 

identification. Part of my role is to make 

sure that the record is in tact, and that, you 

know, things are referred to. 

The problem is, if this case gets 

appealed, if somebody just looks at a dry 

transcript and then say, well, what do you 

think of that, it doesn't tell the reader of 

the transcript what's going on, which is why 

I went through the exercise with the picture. 

I' m trying to - - I know what you 

are saying, but somebody six months from now 

who reviews the transcript will not have a 

clue what we are talking about, even though we 

here can visually look at a picture and point 

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to it. 

So, think -- my obligation is to 

make sure the record is in tact and protect 

it, so that when somebody picks up this 

picture, oh, now I see what they are talking 

about. At 9:00 there's a hole, at 7:30 

there's a hole, oh, you know, that's where it 

is. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: We can 

go off the record, we don't need to chew up 

space waiting for the witness. 

MS. MARTINO: Oh, I'm sorry. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Are you 

going to call it? 

MS. MARTINO: Agency calls Mr. 

Barry Dunmire. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODVJIN: Sir, 

raise your right hand. 

Please, be seated. State your 

first and last name, and then spell your first 

and last name, please. 

MR. DUNMIRE: My first name is 

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Barry, B-A-R-R-Y, last name is Dunmire, D-U-NM-I-R-E. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Go 

ahead. 

WHEREUPON, 

BARRY DUNMIRE 

was called for examination by Counsel for the 

Agency, and having been first duly sworn, 

testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Mr. Dunmire, how are you employed? 

A I work for the Federal Aviation 

Administration in Rapid City, South Dakota. 

Q And, what's your position there? 

A I'm what's called an Aviation 

Safety Inspector. 

Q And, are you - - what kind of 

aviation safety inspector are you? 

A I'm an Ops inspector. 

Q And, you were involved with the 

investigation into Rushmore Helicopters' 

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flight on August 7th of 2009? 

A Yes, that's correct. 

Q And, I understand that you went 

out to the Keystone, South Dakota location 

with Inspector Kwasniewski. 

A Yes, ma'am, that's correct. 

Q What did you do when you got to 

the Custer location, excuse me, the Keystone 

location? 

A The Keystone location, we went in 

to the area where people go in and pay the 

bills, things like that, and we asked, you 

know, for the pilot. And, they said he's over 

fueling. So, we went over there. 

He met us about halfway there, and 

the aircraft was running, and Mr. Kwasniewski 

asked him, do you have any maintenance issues, 

anything like that, anything wrong with the 

aircraft. 

He said, no, it's fine. 

Oh, okay, fine. So, we just said, 

okay, fine. 

(202) 234-4433 

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So, we went back inside, and then 

he said he has passengers to go, so we go back 

inside, and the next thing we know passengers 

are on board, he's starting to take off. I 

could tell there was more power going to the 

aircraft by the noise, and the next thing we 

know we left -- he's ready to lift off, and 

that's when we both noticed there's duct tape 

on the fuel port. 

Q When you initially spoke with him, 

could you see the duct tape on the fuel port? 

A No, we could not. 

Q And, did you, specifically, ask 

him was there duct tape on the fuel port? 

A No, we did not. 

Q And, did -- Mr. Leffert was the 

pilot's name? 

A Yes, ma'am. 

Q Did Mr. Leffert tell you that 

there was duct tape on the fuel port of the 

aircraft? 

A N o . He just said there's no 

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maintenance issues at this time. 

And, what was the number of that 

aircraft? 

A It's 2268 Whiskey. 

Q Now, once you did see the duct 

tape on the aircraft, where were you located 

then? 

A We were in the area where people 

pay to go get the rides and things like that. 

Q And, you said that when you saw it 

the aircraft was in the process of --

A Taking off. 

Q - - okay. And, i s there any way 

you could have --

A No. 

Q -- been able to stop the aircraft? 

A No, there's no way we could have 

stopped it, for personal safety. We had no 

radio or anything like either to contact the 

pilot. 

Q Okay, thank you. 

MS. MARTINO: That's all I have. 

(202) 234-4433 

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ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr 

Jacob, cross? 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

BY MR. JACOB: 

Q Hi, Barry. 

A Hi, Mike, how you doing? 

Q Good. 

Were you present during Mr. 

Kwasniewski's testimony? 

A Yes, sir, I was. 

Q And, you heard his description --

A Yes. 

Q -- verbatim, as to what transpired 

with Mr. Leffert? 

A Yes, that's correct. 

Q Would Mr. Leffert have had any 

reason to make up, in your opinion, the story 

that he was allowed to continue flight with 

passengers on board? 

A All I know is, we asked him, do 

you have any maintenance issues, and he said 

no. Okay. We take the pilot's word for it. 

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Go on. 

Q And, you, specifically, went to 

Keystone on that day because you had received 

a citizen's complaint of duct tape on an 

aircraft? 

A Yes. I can't say duct tape, we 

were told fuel cap, is what we were told, 

aircraft flying around, helicopter 

specifically. 

Q And, the complaint, did they 

specify which aircraft they were concerned 

with? 

A They said a red helicopter, is all 

they said. 

Q Mr. Leffert was operating a red 

helicopter? 

A Yes, he was. 

Q And, you had the opportunity, 

however, when you spoke with Mr. Leffert, to 

go out and inspect the aircraft? 

A The blades were going around on 

the top of it, he was next to the fuel port, 

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and he looked like he was in a hurry. And 

again, we asked if he had any maintenance 

issues. He said, no. Okay, we'll take your 

word for it and go on. 

Q But, he did approach you, and you 

did have an opportunity to have a conversation 

with him, however brief? 

A 3 0 seconds, a minute, that was it. 

Q Okay. 

A Like I said, Mike, he looked like 

he was in a hurry. He said, I' ve got 

passengers. I said, okay. 

Q You also are an operations 

inspector involved with Black Hills Aerial 

Adventures and Crazy Horse? 

A I work with your operation out of 

Cactus Flats. 

Q Okay. Have we ever denied access? 

No. 

Q Or, tried to enter any 

investigations or surveillance, or attempted 

to cover anything up? 

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A No, not that I've seen. 

MR. JACOB: I guess I have no 

further questions. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODV^IN: Any 

redirect? 

MS. MARTINO: No, Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: You may 

step down. You can remain in the courtroom. 

Don't discuss your testimony with anybody 

prior to the conclusion of the hearing. 

(The witness was excused.) 

MS. MARTINO: Your Honor, at this 

time the Agency has no further witnesses. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Mr. Jacob, how long do you think you'll take 

with your case? 

MR. JACOB: I believe if I can 

just make a quick statement for the record, we 

can complete this. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Do you 

want to do it under oath, or - -

MR. JACOB: That would be fine. 

(202) 234-4433 

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ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Why don't you, just to be consistent, why 

don't you come forward. 

Please, be seated, and state your 

name for the record, and spell your first and 

last name. 

MR. JACOB: My name is Michael 

Jacob, J-A-C-0-B. I am President and Owner of 

Rushmore Helicopters, Black Hills Aerial 

Adventures, and Badger Helicopters. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Now, it's an administrative hearing. It's a 

formal administrative hearing, but I'll give 

you some latitude to say whatever you want to 

say, with the understanding that Ms. Martino 

have any opportunity to cross examine. 

MR. JACOB: Yes, sir. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Go 

ahead. 

WHEREUPON, 

was called for examination by Counsel for the 

Agency, and having been first duly sworn, 

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testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

THE WITNESS: Regarding the 

incident of August 6th and 7th, I do not deny 

that the aircraft was operated with duct tape 

placed over the fuel port when the gas cap was 

lost. 

On the morning of August the 7th, 

I did have a telephone conversation with Bell 

Helicopters. I spoke with a design engineer 

by the name of Daniel Bias. I discussed what 

had transpired, and I asked his opinion 

regarding the operation of the aircraft 

without a fuel cap. 

At that time, I was advised that 

it was not a structural component, the system 

was a vented system. The fuel cap was in 

place to prevent contaminants, and to prevent 

spillage in the event of a dynamic rollover. 

His opinion at that time expressed 

to me was that it did not constitute a safety 

of flight issue, and that he would forward me 

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MR. JACOB: Not that I can recall 

at this time, Your Honor. 

Martino? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

Ms 

BY MS. MARTINO: 

Q Mr. Jacob, do you admit that 

Rushmore Helicopters operated the aircraft? 

A I admit that Lee Leffert operated 

the aircraft. 

Q Do you have the letter that was 

sent by a Daniel Bias, he told you he would 

send you? 

A No. In subsequent conversation 

with him after this event occurred, he told me 

that in discussing with his supervisors they 

would not allow him to provide any written 

documentation, because it could establish a 

legal precedent. 

MS. MARTINO: Nothing further, 

Your Honor. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay . 

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Anything further in this case? 

Sir, Mr. Jacob, it' s up to you, 

did you want to introduce that diagram or not? 

It's solely up to you. I'm not trying to tell 

you one way or the other. 

MR. JACOB: If you feel it is 

vital for the record, I would be happy to 

introduce it. I have no reason to --

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

What I'll do is, you know, Ms. Martino, you 

indicated the Agency would have no objection, 

all right, why don't you -- you are excused, 

obviously, you can stay as long as you want. 

I'll mark it as Respondent's 1 for 

identification. Well, actually, call it A. 

{Whereupon, the document was 

marked for identification as 

Respondent's Exhibit A.) 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Respondent's A for identification is received 

into evidence as Respondent's A. 

(Whereupon, the document 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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previousl y marke d fo r 

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Exhibit A, was received in 

evidence.) 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Anything further in this case, Ms. Martino? 

MS. MARTINO: If Your Honor would 

allow us to make a brief closing argument? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 

What I'd like you to do is, I'd like you to 

brief the issue. The way the court sees the 

evidence right now, intent, and whether it is 

deliberate or not, hasn' t come into the 

deliberations, so the court it's a 

regulatory violation. Either there's a 

violation or there isn't. 

I'd like to see some briefing on 

the issue of whether -- on whether this is --

the aircraft was, in fact, unairworthy. I've 

got testimony, all of which, from both sides, 

is hearsay. 

Now, I' m going to look at the 

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regs, but I'd like you to brief that issue, 

you know, don't feel like you've got to submit 

a 50-page brief. 

Mr. Jacob, what I'd like to do is 

get some -- brief means that Ms. Martino will 

file a brief outlining her position on the 

case, cite some law. I' 11 give you the 

opportunity to respond. 

What's your schedule like, Ms. 

Martino? I'm not going to make you do it in 

the next couple weeks, so don't worry about 

it. 

MS. MARTINO: I would think 30 

days is sufficient. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Do you 

want to get it done before or after Memorial 

Day? 

MS, MARTINO: Maybe the Friday 

after Memorial Day. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Well, 

are you sure, because that means -- the longer 

its life goes, that means you are going to 

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Spend Memorial Day working on the brief. 

MS. MARTINO: I think you are 

calling me a procrastinator. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: No, 

what I'm saying is, I was in private practice 

20 years. 

MS. MARTINO: Okay. Maybe --

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Bestmade plans always blow up. 

MS. MARTINO: Two weeks after 

Memorial Day would be fantastic. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Let's 

do this. 

MS. MARTINO: Judge, will we have 

the copy of the transcript at that time? 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes . 

Let's do this. The transcript will probably 

be available two to three weeks. Now, the 

transcript goes to Washington, then gets 

mailed to your office. 

What I'm going to ask you to do, 

Ms. Martino, is when you get the transcript 

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give Mr. Jacob a call, work out some dates for 

you to file your brief, and Mr. Jacob to file 

his response. 

Normally, you would file a brief, 

I' d give Mr. Jacob two weeks after that to 

respond, and then if you do rebuttal you'11 

have a week to do a rebuttal. 

Now, anything that you and Mr. 

Jacob can agree on, send me an order, I'll 

sign it. And, what I'll do is have Mr. 

Lebowitz follow up with you if we haven't 

heard from you by, let's say, the Friday after 

Memorial Day. 

I know that, you know, things get 

lost in the record. Hopefully, Ms. Matthews 

will have the exhibits file probably some time 

next week. She normally gets them and makes 

a copy for Mr. Lebowitz for the document. 

So, if we haven't heard from you, 

I just did this in another case, it turns out 

the parties had already agreed on a briefing 

schedule. 

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And, if either one of you need an 

extension, just send me an amendment order. 

MS. MARTINO: Fine. 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN 

Anything further in this case? 

MS. MARTINO: No. 

MR. JACOB: No, 

ADMIN. LAW JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

Then we are all excuse, we' 11 go off the 

record. 

(Whereupon, the above-entitled 

matter was concluded at 11:19 a.m.) 

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accent 13:5 

accept43:15 

access 115:18 

accesses 102:21 

accidents47:16 

accurate 31:1 

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allegation 95:4 

allow 39:14 48:7 

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allowed 48:18 61:5 

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allowing 67:4 

altered 46:5 

amend 6:8 

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amendment 6:15 

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AMERICA 1:1 

answer 6:7 64:6 

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argument 11:1 

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asked 12:7 24:8 

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75:1 84:8,10 

94:20 101:8 

110:12,17 113:20 

115:2 118:12 

assigned 73:9,10 

Assistant 19:20 

assume 63:1 

102:21 

assuming 12:11 

61:15 101:19 

ate 10:13 

attempted 115:21 

attend 92:4 

attention 93:15 

August 7:7 9:5 

16:14 19:11 31:2 

32:14 33:11 34:22 

34:22 35:10,11 

36:13,20 37:5,6 

37:18,1940:3 

41:2 57:19 66:14 

66:15 69:10,10,15 

74:12 76:22 77:8 

79:18 81:15 92:13 

110:1 118:4,8 

authorization 

14:21 89:11 

available 92:22 

124:18 

Avenue 2:6 

aviation 7:14 16:17 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
16:1990:19 

109:13,16,19 

aware9:16 48:20 

53:5,7 94:22 

97:22 98:2 

A&P 15:2,7,16,22 

16:5,21 89:13,22 

90:14,16 

a.m 1:194:2 87:16 

87:17 126:12 

B 

back9:13 10:17 

11:22 25:6,8,16 

25:17 41:9 42:6 

44:11,18,1945:10 

61:1,6 70:17,21 

72:19 73:2,6,8,11 

73:16 75:6,8 

77:19 80:3,7 

84:13 87:18 93:5 

96:7 111:1,2 

bad3:7 13:11 

87:22 88:3,3,8,9 

88:14,20 105:19 

Badger 117:10 

ball 91:22 

bankrupt 90:8 

bantered 73:16 

Barry 3:8 21:8 

92:15 108:16 

109:1,6 113:5 

base 10:18 18:11 

based 73:17 82:10 

82:15 

basic 82:6 

basically 49:16 

52:9 63:19 76:5 

79:16 119:13 

bay 19:7 82:18 

bear 10:12 

Behalf2:2,14 

believe 21:1 22:8 

22:12,2124:2 

30:2 38:21 41:8 

53:13 54:16 55:3 

58:5,18 59:3 

60:18 62:2 66:3 

83:1,3,20 90:9 

91:11 92:5 93:20 

94:1 98:2 102:10 

102:11,16 116:17 

BeII7:7 9:10 26:20 

30:1831:1 32:13 

33:10 40:8 42:12 

45:12 49:4,18,20 

50:18 51:6 52:2 

63:10,11 64:2,18 

65:1 78:9 81:22 

82:7 91:9 92:4,7 

100:3,21 101:5 

105:2 118:9 

belongs 11:14 

belf 100:4 

bench 11:13 

benches 11:22 

best 58:9 124:8 

better 5:17 

Biasll8:ll 120:12 

Big 20:22 

bills 110:12 

binder 29:14,16 

67:2 

birth 5:3 

bit24:l,4 43:10 

61:1963:1970:9 

73:17 79:22 

Black 17:11,15 

18:7,14,19 19:5 

33:1434:1241:21 

58:11 66:21 79:7 

81:5,16 92:20 

99:12,21 100:9 

115:14 117:9 

blades 114:21 

blow 124:9 

board 90:2 111:4 

113:19 

boarding 26:9 59:6 

book 53:4 

bottom 38:11 

box 10:16 

break 87:12 

Brisna 2:4 4:9,12 

brief 115:7 122:8 

122:11 123:1,3,5 

123:6 124:1 125:2 

125:4 

briefing 122:17 

125:21 

brieny 6:20 23:14 

24:8,12 61:4,10 

66:9 95:6 

bring35:13 

brought 72:4 104:8 

building 6:3 

bush 10:9 

B-A-D 88:9 

B-A-R-R-Y 109:1 

B-R-I-A-N-A 4:13 

Cl:21 

Cactus 115:17 

call 11:15 13:16 

52:14 68:4 72:12 

87:20,22 92:15 

93:16 108:14 

121:15 125:1 

called 10:15 14:12 

16:1721:1 44:12 

68:20 71:13 72:6 

88:15 109:7,16 

117:21 

calling 124:3 

calls 68:7 108:15 

cap7:188:17,19 

9:1,6,10,12,16,17 

20:1,1727:18 

28:11,22 30:1 

40:9,11,1441:7 

42:7,11,2043:14 

45:21 46:5 48:1,5 

48:12,17 49:22 

52:2 65:2 67:7,8 

70:10,16,22 71:5 

71:14,20 73:16,18 

74:4,8,17 75:12 

78:9,14 82:8,11 

82:14 94:21 95:3 

95:18 96:4,7 97:3 

101:17,17 103:16 

104:19 114:7 

118:6,14,17 

capacity 63:15,21 

83:5 

caps 72:3 

career 63:10 

carriers 90:11 

carrying 7:22 9:19 

case"5:5 7:5 11:2 

12:1635:1445:21 

48:11,12 76:8 

77:4 95:17 97:19 

104:13 106:12 

107:12 116:16 

121:1 122:6 123:7 

125:20 126:5 

cases 47:8 

cause48:8 96:6 

105:16 

caused 48:19 

causing 97:7 

cell 2:21 46:22 47:5 

47:7,17 48:8,22 

98:15 101:11 

certificate 9:2 

14:18,20,21 15:2 

15:8,13,13,22 

19:743:11,13,16 

45:18,20 46:3,12 

46:15 50:2 53:2 

76:7 86:8 89:3 

95:12,15,19 96:2 

96:10 99:2 104:17 

certificated 88:22 

certificates 69:4 

88:21 

Certification 17:4 

CFR 10:2 

chain 15:11 

chance 97:6 

Changing 51:21 

check70:19 74:18 

chew 108:10 

Chicago 10:11 13:1 

13:5 

chief 11:3 35:14 

Pag e 128 

83:7 106:13 119:3 

Chris 76:14 

ciphoning 72:18 

circumstances 

52:16 

circumvent 119:16 

cite 123:7 

citizen's 114:4 

City 1:15 16:11,16 

83:14 90:21 

109:14 

civil 10:3 

civilian 91:11 

cleaned 78:11 

cleared 5:17 

clearly 102:12 

104:4 

climb 61:6 

clog 47:9 

closed 102:2 

104:10 

closing 122:8 

clue 107:21 

coffee 12:7 

collapse 48:9,22 

97:15 

colonel 83:15 

Colorado 49:8 93:5 

combat 80:3 

come 11:22 60:18 

60:21 84:13 117:3 

122:13 

comfortable 12:5 

coming 23:12,13 

24:3 25:20 44:18 

60:2 105:13 

command 119:8 

commander 83:14 

commercial 6:10 

7:9 69:7 

companies 17:20 

89:16 

company 17:18 

28:10 89:16 93:15 

complained 20:10 

complaint6:6,15 

19:21 57:22 60:11 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
92:16 114:4,10 

complete 116:19 

completely 98:11 

compliance 56:9,10 

99:1 

complied 96:9 

component 46:9 

65:3,9,17 73:19 

82:9 96:17 104:20 

118:16 

components 46:11 

compromise 

100:11 

compromised 

46:19 58:18 

computer 89:20 

concerned 45:11 

114:11 

concerns 7:5 47:12 

50:4 95:20 

concluded 126:12 

conclusion 11:20 

67:22 87:6 106:4 

116:10 

condition 82:20 

96:19,22 

conditions 8:4 

Conduct 99:20 

conducted 7:14 

40:841:6 119:15 

conference 76:14 

configured 46:4 

conform 96:14 

conformed 96:10 

confused 61:19 

62:21 65:13 

confusing 104:7 

connected 17:16 

consider 43:3 

47:21 49:11 80:20 

considered 46:2,13 

47:21 50:3 52:1 

64:18 65:8 82:8 

82:19 

consistent 117:2 

constitute 58:17 

65:4,19 118:21 

119:6 

consultation 86:10 

contact 28:20 49:4 

100:8 112:19 

contacted 9:8 

28:10 49:7 82:7 

contaminants 

65:21 98:8 118:18 

contamination 

46:21 47:7 49:1 

98:6 

CONTENTS 3:1 

continue 61:2 

113:18 

continued 40:16 

contract 89:18 

controls 24:6,17 

conversation 43:1 

49:9 81:14,19,19 

81:20,22 82:5,6 

83:1,16 84:16 

85:10,16 115:6 

118:9 119:2 

120:14 

conversations 8:5 

conversing 82:16 

conveyed 119:2 

cooperate 100:11 

copy 29:11,17,18 

33:18 34:11,20 

36:12,21 37:16 

51:1 54:22 62:1 

62:13 67:3 106:17 

124:15 125:18 

corners 100:18 

corporate 57:18 

correct 36:20 37:20 

85:20 103:2 110:2 

110:6 113:15 

correctly 40:21 

correspondence 

76:11 

counsel 2:5 4:7 

14:12 68:20 87:7 

88:12,15 109:7 

117:21 

counted 40:21 

country 10:9 

couple4:22 42:3 

70:15 72:3 100:1 

123:11 

course 53:14 97:17 

99:15 100:7 101:3 

court 5:14 122:11 

122:14 

Courthouse 1:14 

courtroom 11:14 

11:18 116:8 

cover 74:6 115:22 

covered 8:22 27:15 

27:21 29:2 

covering 7:17 

co-director 16:3 

CP10GL0002 1:8 

Craft 69:8 

crash 47:16 

Crazy 72:20 115:15 

create 119:17 

created 104:9 

crew 15:20 29:8 

70:6 

cross 3:5 39:8,15 

57:13 79:2 99:5,7 

113:2,3 117:16 

120:5 

Cubs 13:13 

current 19:10 

currently 84:2 

curve 91:22 

Custer 2:18 6:12 

9:14 18:15,19 

33:14,16 34:15,16 

37:2,1141:1,11 

43:5,8,22 44:4,7,9 

62:10 66:21 72:21 

73:1 77:7,10 

94:14 110:8 

cut 100:18 

D 

Dakota 1:15 6:11 

6:127:12 9:14 

18:10,1641:12 

72:22 83:13 

109:14 110:4 

damage 96:6 

Daniel 118:11 

120:12 

DAR53:18 

data 46:3 

date 34:17 37:3 

50:20 

dated 35:10,11 

61:20 62:4,5,8 

66:13 

dates5:3 125:1 

Davis 20:10,21 

21:11,1722:14 

57:20 59:20 60:14 

day7:15 9:15 19:16 

20:13 27:18 28:14 

28:17,19 30:2,4 

33:19 34:12 37:8 

37:13 40:6,11 

41:2 42:4 58:7 

59:4 62:8 65:1 

66:18,19 67:1 

69:16,19 70:2 

71:2 73:777:12 

78:1,3,12,13 95:2 

114:3 123:17,19 

124:1,11 125:13 

days 37:9 76:13 

123:14 

day's29:12,15 

41:13 

dead 13:15 

debris47:3 72:17 

98:13 

decide 33:15 

decided 9:9 80:6 

82:18 

defer 11:6 

degree 80:8 

deliberate 122:13 

deliberations 

122:14 

denied 115:18 

deny 118:4 

depart 26:10 

departing 27:4 

Pag e 12 9 

81:16 

DEPARTMENT 

1:3 

depending 52:16 

64:4 

depends 12:16 

depict32:I3 103:8 

depiction 31:1 

depicts 103:14 

Des 2:7 

describe 79:21 

describing 103:6 

description 113:11 

design 95:18 96:1 

96:15 99:1 104:16 

104:22 118:10 

details 82:3 

determination 

119:10,11 

determine 28:7 

determined 40:14 

119:6 

determining 44:16 

Devon 2:6 

diagram 3:23 

103:13 106:13 

121:3 

Dickerson 3:20 

50:1751:1,4 

die 13:13 

difference 11:4 

different 22:11,11 

63:22 64:1,2,3,8,8 

Direct3:5 14:15 

69:1 88:18 109:10 

118:2 

directly 103:9 

dirt 47:3 

disappointed 44:14 

discuss 11:18 42:1 

67:21 87:5 106:3 

116:9 

discussed 28:21 

73:15 76:3 81:15 

81:21 118:11 

discussing 120:16 

discussion 42:5 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
Page 13 0 

Distinctive 13:5 

distracted 70:8 

District 16:12 91:2 

DMS 1:9 5:22 

Docket 1:8,9 4:6 

document 30:11,15 

31:13,20 32:2 

33:3 34:1,5 35:17 

36:3,9 39:16 50:7 

50:11 51:1654:6 

54:10 55:14,21 

56:3,7 57:2 

121:16,22 125:18 

documentation 

120:18 

doing 62:21 72:7 

77:3 82:11 113:6 

door 7:3 

doubt 61:13 

Dow 89:21 

dragging 10:12 

drawing 50:1 

drawings 45:22 

46:1,2 

drilled 81:3 

driven 41:10 

dry 107:13 

Dubbs 83:2,17 

119:3 

duct 7:17 8:2,22 

9:12,19 10:16,17 

19:22 20:18 25:14 

26:2,5,11 27:15 

27:21 29:2 33:9 

40:8 41:6 42:20 

44:1946:17,19 

47:12,22 48:6,15 

48:18 49:5 60:11 

61:16 65:20 67:6 

67:8 72:16 74:6 

75:11,22 76:22 

77:15,18,20,21 

78:5,6 82:18 

83:19 84:20 86:17 

95:5 96:18,21 

97:2,10,14 98:1,4 

98:10,20 102:19 

103:11 104:15 

111:8,11,14,20 

112:5 114:4,6 

118:5 

duly 14:13 68:21 

88:16 109:8 

117:22 

Dunmire3:8 21:8,9 

25:1229:1933:12 

41:1043:1544:2 

92:15 108:16,22 

109:1,6,12 

Dunmire's43:l 1 

dust 98:13 

dynamic 118:19 

D-U-N 109:1 

E 

E 3:4,4 

earlier 59:8 102:1 

easier 8:10 

easily 62:21 

East 2:6 

effect 98:19 

eighth 73:22 

either 11:4 62:10 

77:7 100:9 112:19 

122:15 126:1 

email 3:20 50:16,20 

51:1 

embark 58:21 

emergency 70:19 

105:11 

employed 16:9,13 

69:9,15 81:5 

109:12 

employees 18:17 

19:1 29:8 

employment 79:7 

79:16 

encountered 83:22 

ended 49:9 

enforcement38:18 

56:9,11 76:7 

engine 16:8 69:8 

97:16 105:10,14 

105:15 

engineer 50:17 

51:5 64:15,17,22 

65:10,15 118:10 

Engineering 49:20 

50:18 

engineers 64:2 

enter 10:1 115:20 

entered 74:17 

entitled 12:10,12 

entries 40:5 

environment 5:10 

errors 119:14 

especially 80:21 

81:2 104:3 

Esponoza 93:7,13 

93:19 

ESQ 2:4 

essential 45'22 

49:22 53:17 

establish 120:18 

etiquette 57: IS 

evacuation 80:12 

81:3 

evening 8:17 9:7 

event 105:5 118:19 

120:15 

evidence3:15 31:6 

31:12,1632:18 

33:2,6 35:5,16,20 

38:1 39:5,13,19 

51:8,15,1955:6 

55:13,17 56:15 

57:1,5 106:16 

121:21 122:4,12 

exactly 60:4,19 

88:5 

examination 14:12 

14:15 39:8 57:13 

66:10 68:20 69:1 

79:2 86:4 88:15 

88:18 99:6,7 

109:7,10 113:3 

117:21 118:2 

190-5 

PYitminp 1 17* 1 rt 

example 105:9 

excuse 110:8 126:9 

excused 11:17 

67:20 68:3 87:4 

87:10 106:2,6,10 

116:11 121:12 

exercise 107:17 

exhibit 30:10,13 

31:5,11,12,15,18 

31:19,22 32:17 

33:1,2,5,21 34:3,8 

35:4,15,16,19 

36:1,5 37:22 

38:12,13 39:4,12 

39:13,18 40:2 

41:12 50:6,9 51:8 

51:14,15,1854:5 

54:8 55:6,12,13 

55:16,20 56:1,6 

56:15,22 57:1,4 

66:13 102:18 

107:5 121:18 

122:3 

exhibits 3:15 5:1,20 

5:21 38:5 125:16 

expected 71:6 

experience 80:15 

91:8 

expertise 12:15 

explain 8:3,16,21 

9:645:1449:14 

95:7 97:1 

Express 90:6 

expressed 82:4 

118:20 

extension 126:2 

extensive 80:14 

extent 85:15 

external 101:11 

102:4 

extreme 47:8 

E-S-P-A-N-Z-O 

93:21 

E-S-P-O-N-O-Z-A 

93:22 

F 

FAA 1:8 4:6 10:8 

12:10 14:18 16:10 

45:17 69:3 74:14 

76:11 84:1 85:18 

88:20 

FAA-2010-0023 

1:10 

facility 18:22 52:12 

71:1883:14 99:17 

facing 23:7 i 

fact 26:1 65:17 

100:1 119:20 

122:19 

factory 95:17 

fair 30:22 37:16 

fairly 32:12 52:12 

52:17 63:14 

familiar 17:6,9 

63:12,14,2081:13 

83:8 92:6,11 

100:22 101:10 

104:2 

familiarity 58:10 

63:18 

fan 13:9,13 

fantastic 124:11 

far 27:6 28:15 

32:1043:1246:7 

46:18 47:14 48:22 

59:2 71:1085:13 

101:4 

farthest 25:10 

26:14 

Fax 2:9 

Federal 7:13 

109:13 

feel 59:13 67:10 

121:6 123:2 

felt 26:1649:15 

58:3.16,21 80:22 

ferry 52:1,5,6,21 

53:6,8,21 

field 92:4 

figure 27:19 

figured 74:18 

file 123:6 125:2,2,4 

125:16 

filed 76:10 

filler 25:15 26:3 

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 
48:1,16 103:16 

filter 47:9 

find 9:11 12:1 

28:21 29:1 66:3 

71:2,1998:14 

100:4,6 102:7 

finding 10:1 

fine 110:20,21,22 

116:22 126:3 

finish 6:2 

fire 47:19 97:8 

105:16 

first 7:19 12:21 

13:16 14:3,3,13 

23:5 57:1768:11 

68:21 74:16 75:10 

83:22 86:14 88:2 

88:6,16 92:15 

94:21 108:20,20 

108:22 109:8 

117:5,22 

fit9:10 72:5 

fixed 16:7 69:7 

89:19 

name 96:6 105:10 

Flats 115:17 

fleet 58:13 

flew 10:17 44:18 

69:22 72:19 74:14 

80:10 82:13,21 

98:20 

flight 16:11 26:21 

29:12,15 33:18 

34:18,21,22 35:9 

36:1237:17,19 

40:1841:1,13 

42:4,16 45:19 

46:8,12,17,18 

52:15 53:4,16,19 

58:17,21 59:4 

61:2,7 66:14,19 

71:1075:8,18 

80:1,17 84:2,4 

85:3,1991:1 

95:13 96:19 110:1 

113:18 118:22 

flights 7:6,15,22 

9:5,18 28:8 40:2,7 

40:2041:6 74:11 

76:21 77:3 84:11 

95:2 

flown 44:21 95:1 

fly9:13 28:6 52:9 

52:20 53:15 67:5 

69:1873:10,11 

74:2 75:5 81:7 

84:13 

flying 44:15 60:17 

73:21 79:22 81:11 

83:10 85:8 114:8 

follow 125:11 

followed 71:9 

following 76:9 

92:22 

follows 14:14 68:22 

88:17 109:9 118:1 

forced 97:18 

Forest 80:9 

forgot 70:16 

formal 117:13 

forth 57:18 62:18 

73:17 99:18 

Fortunately 10:19 

forward 65:22 

117:3 118:22 

found 8:4 32:10 

72:3 100:10 

four 56:5,12 72:3 

Frame 14:20 15:12 

88:22 

free 67:16 

fresh 77:21 78:5 

Friday 92:21 

123:18 125:12 

front 59:14 67:2 

84:5 

FSDO 90:21 

Ft 80:4 

fuel3:18 7:17,18 

8:2,16,19,22 9:1,6 

9:10,12,16,17,20 

20:1,1,15,17,18 

22:22 23:6,8 

24:18 27:14,18 

28:11,22 30:1 

32:8 40:9,11,14 

41:7 42:6,11,20 

42:21 43:14 44:19 

45:21 46:5,17,21 

46:21 47:5,7,9,10 

47:12,17,1848:6 

48:8,9,22 49:6,21 

52:2 58:16 60:12 

63:13,16,21 65:2 

65:21 67:6 70:10 

70:12,16,2271:5 

71:14,20 72:3,17 

72:18 73:16,18,20 

74:1,4,8,17 75:12 

77:1,11 78:8,14 

82:8,10,11,14 

84:21 86:17 94:21 

95:3,6,18,21 96:4 

96:7,18 97:3,7,16 

98:1,5,7,15,18,21 

101:6,7,11,17,17 

102:13,22 103:9 

103:14 104:2,4,19 

105:1,2,4,8,13,15 

111:9,11,14,20 

114:7,22 118:6,14 

118:17 

fueled 77:9 

fueling23:17 27:20 

61:9,9 110:14 

fuU68:ll 83:15 

fully 9:16 71:6 

further 57:7 63:6 

67:12,15 78:20 

85:21 86:22 116:3 

116:13 120:20 

121:1 122:6 126:5 

fuselage 10:13 

104:5 

Gary3:6 13:19 

14:5,11 57:19 

92:14 

gas 118:6 

gears 51:21 

general 63:16 

101:2 

generally 107:8 

gentleman 12:12 

gentlemen 74:14 

getting 7:1 22:22 

26:9,10 47:18 

89:7 98:7 

gist 82:6 

givell:! 12:14 

29:13 42:18 62:12 

101:2 117:13 

123:7 125:1,5 

giving 100:15 

go4:4 5:12 8:14 

12:1 18:1820:2 

21:6 24:14 33:15 

39:20 59:14 67:16 

68:15,1771:17 

75:5 77:11 80:7 

84:12 85:2 94:14 

95:10 100:6 

108:10 109:3 

110:11 111:2,2 

112:9 114:1,20 

115:4 117:18 

126:9 

goes 5:6 123:22 

124:19 

going 11:17 14:2 

25:1739:1341:9 

60:2 76:12 78:12 

87:3,4 93:2 95:10 

97:18 106:12 

107:16 108:14 

111:5 114:21 

122:22 123:10,22 

124:21 

good 13:10 57:15 

57:16 79:4,5 

113:7 

GOODWIN 1:21 

4:3,11,15,21 6:13 

6:17,22 8:8 10:7 

11:7,11 12:6,22 

13:4,8,12,20 14:8 

15:9 30:731:7,10 

Pag e 13 1 

32:19,22 35:6,12 

38:2,6 39:6,11,20 

51:10,13 54:1 

55:8,11 56:17,21 

57:9 63:4 64:12 

66:7 67:14,19 

68:4,8,16 78:19 

78:22 79:10 86:1 

87:2,11,1888:4 

88:11 89:6 90:3,7 

90:1091:13,18,21 

93:18 94:2 99:5 

102:17 103:4 

105:20 106:1,11 

106:21 107:6 

108:9,13,17 109:3 

113:1 116:4,7,14 

116:20 117:1,11 

117:18 119:21 

120:3,22 121:9,19 

122:5,9 123:15,20 

124:4,8,12,16 

126:4,8 

Government 89:17 

GP90:5 

graduated 80:1 

graduation 80:8 

Grand 89:21 90:4 

grandfather 13:13 

granted 52:17 

53:12 

grass 47:3 

greet 74:15 75:9,19 

grew 13:2 

ground 29:8 70:6 

70:21 71:7 103:1 

grounding 76:2 

Guard 80:10,11 

83:13 

guess 18:21 29:22 

38:1663:1864:21 

66:5 70:4,5 

101:17 116:2 

119:13 

guessing 11:14 

guidance 10:5 

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Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

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half73:21 

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68:9 108:18 

handed 37:17 

62:13 67:3 

handing 50:5 54:4 

55:19 

hangar 9:9 18:22 

27:8 28:22 71:17 

72:2 73:6 

happen 47:1,6 

happened 20:14 

21:20 30:3 70:2 

73:2 76:5 84:7 

85:5 

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97:15 

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hard 13:13 66:3 

hazard 82:20 

104:10 

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headed 44:3 

head$81:3 

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96:16 113:11 

125:12,19 

hearing 1:6,19 

11:20 67:22 87:6 

106:4 116:10 

117:12,13 

HEARINGS 1:4 

hearsay 122:21 

heck 5:19 

held 15:1,4 89:2 

helicopter 3:18 7:8 

8:4 9:12 14:19 

20:15 22:2,4 23:3 

23:6,11,13,18 

24:4,10,15 25:1,9 

25:21 26:2,5,9,12 

26:13 27:6,12 

29:4 30:18,20 

31:1 42:6 44:6,9 

44:14 49:18,20 

50:1,1951:6 

52:20 59:15,20 

60:3,4 61:1,6,15 

65:1 69:8,21 72:4 

73:12,13,20 75:9 

80:14,21 82:1,9 

93:7 95:21 96:3 

114:8,13,16 

helicopters 1:9 4:5 

4:197:7,168:19 

9:15,18 15:20 

17:7,17,19 18:3,9 

18:13,18 19:4,7 

19:1621:1422:6 

22:12,17 25:20 

29:9 36:14 40:3 

41:17,22 44:4 

45:3,10 49:4 

51:22 58:12,12 

60:2 66:17 69:10 

69:19 78:8 79:8 

81:6 89:1991:9 

92:12,19 93:9 

94:9 97:22 99:13 

100:10 109:22 

117:9,10 118:10 

120:8 

heliport 72:20 84:1 

help 70:7 74:21 

helped 90:15,17 

helpfun00:l4 

hereto 6:9 

Hi 99:9,10 113:5,6 

higher 47:19 

highlight 35:14 

highlighted 62:3 

highlighter 37:14 

highlighting 55:4 

Highway 2:17 

HUl 79:7 

Hills 17:12,16 18:7 

18:14,19 19:5 

33:1434:1341:21 

58:11 66:21 81:5 

81:16 92:20 99:13 

99:21 100:9 

115:14 117:9 

history 79:22 

hold 14:17 19:7 

69:3 88:20 89:11 

102:18 

hole 108:6,7 

Honor6:16,21 7:5 

10:1 11:831:4,9 

32:16,21 35:3,9 

37:21 39:3 51:7 

55:5 56:14,20 

57:6 63:2 64:10 

67:13 68:6 78:17 

87:1 103:3 107:3 

116:6,12 120:2,21 

122:7 

HONORABLE 

1:21 

Hopefully 125:15 

Horse 3:7 72:20 

87:22 88:3,3,8,9 

88:14,20 105:19 

115:15 

hoses 70:8 

hot 105:14,15 

hour71:ll 

hours 80:18 

Huey91:10,18 

hurry 24:1,12 

115:1,11 

hypothetically 

64:21 65:7,14 

H-0-R-S-E88:9 

H-U-E91:13 

H-U-E-Y 91:19 

I 

IA15:5 

ID 88:5 

idea 60:15 

identification 3:15 

30:1231:11,15,21 

33:1,5 34:2 35:15 

35:19 36:4 39:12 

39:1850:851:14 

51:1854:7 55:12 

55:16,22 56:22 

57:4 106:14 107:1 

107:9 121:15,17 

121:20 122:2 

identify 4:16 30:19 

identifying 5:2,9,10 

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immediately 59:1 

71:3 

incident 20:11 26:1 

47:15 76:10 118:4 

incorrectly 37:3 

indicate 58:2 83:17 

indicated 57:19 

58:1660:11 61:21 

65:2 85:17 99:11 

121:11 

indicates 103:14 

indicating 85:1 

indication 42:18 

influence 48:3 

inform 93:16 

informal 76:14 

86:10 

informally 82:17 

information 5:3,9 

5:11 19:15,19 

20:5 22:15 73:18 

82:15 100:15 

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85:8 93:13 

initial 84:15 85:10 

initially 92:15 

111:10 

initiate 76:6 

inside 102:21 111:1 

111:3 

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Pag e 132 

8:20 14:17 16:15 

16:19 17:2 19:12 

21:8,8 25:12 

29:1933:8,12 

40:1 41:1044:2 

50:5 52:15 54:4 

55:19 57:7,15 

66:12 90:19 91:5 

91:7 92:19 99:12 

99:16 109:17,19 

109:20 110:5 

115:14 

inspectors 7:14 

84:1 86:14,17 

instances 100:1 

instruct 11:18 

67:20 87:4 

instructed 20:2 

62:12 106:2 

instructor 16:4 

80:5,12 83:12 

intent 119:16 

122:12 

intentionally 

100:18 

internet5:7,ll,13 

interpretation 64:9 

introduce 121:3,8 

investigate 20:3 

investigated 48:14 

investigation 7:15 

33:11 45:1 49:3 

49:17 54:17,18,20 

55:2 92:12 109:22 

investigations 

115:21 

involved 15:15 

22:4,13 25:22 

91:1692:17 

109:21 115:14 

Island 90:4 

issue 24:22 40:15 

42:20 43:3,14 

46:8 52:7 65:5,5 

65:19 83:18,21 

104:7,14,15 

118:22 119:7 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
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issued 86:7,12 

issues 24:9,20 25:3 

61:11 84:17 

110:17 112:1 

113:21 115:3 

I.C-H-A-E-L4:20 

I-E-W-S-K-114:7 

Jacob2:163:84:18 

4:18 6:7,14,16 

11:5,8 17:22 

28:15,17,21 31:8 

31:9 32:20,21 

33:18 34:12,21 

35:7,8 36:19 38:3 

38:4 39:7,9,14 

41:18,19,20 42:2 

42:10,18 43:2,4 

43:22 44:12,17,20 

45:7 51:11,12 

55:9,10 56:18,19 

57:10,12,14 63:6 

63:8 64:20 66:5 

79:1,3,14,20 

85:21 92:20 93:16 

93:22 94:16,19 

99:8 102:20 103:2 

103:7,12 105:18 

106:12,17 107:3 

113:2,4 116:2,15 

116:17,22 117:7,8 

117:17 120:1,7 

121:2,6 123:4 

125:1,2,5,9 126:7 

James 3:7 87:22 

88:3,14 

jet 22:2,9,19,20 

Jim 99:9 

job8:10 80:8 90:17 

90:18 

joined 80:10 

Judge 1:22 4:3,11 

4:15,21 6:13,17 

6:22 8:8 10:7 

11:7,11 12:2,6,20 

12:22 13:4,8,12 

13:20 14:8 15:9 

30:7 31:7,10 

32:19,22 35:6,12 

38:2,6 39:6,11,20 

51:10,13 54:1 

55:8,11 56:17,21 

57:9 63:4 64:12 

66:7 67:14,19 

68:4,8,16 78:19 

78:22 79:10 86:1 

87:2,11,18 88:4 

88:11 89:6 90:3,7 

90:1091:13,18,21 

93:18 94:2 99:5 

102:17 103:4 

105:20 106:1,11 

106:21 107:6 

108:9,13,17 109:3 

113:1 116:4,7,14 

116:20 117:1,11 

117:18 119:21 

120:3,22 121:9,19 

122:5,9 123:15,20 

124:4,8,12,14,16 

126:4,8 

judgment 119:14 

J-A-C-O-B4:20 

117:8 

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keep 5:20 72:17 

74:1 90:12 

kept 65:21 

Keystone 6:11 7:11 

7:20 18:10,14 

20:2,7 21:3,7,21 

27:7 28:22 32:11 

33:13 36:16,17 

45:11 71:21 72:1 

73:11 77:8 84:2 

86:15 93:2 94:10 

110:4,8,10 114:3 

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22:4,9,9,13 23:2 

23:10 24:5,16 

25:21,22 26:2,15 

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37:4 38:16 40:12 

41:5 42:1443:12 

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51:22 53:1958:14 

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104:7 107:11,18 

108:7 110:13 

111:3,7 113:20 

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13:19 14:5,6,11 

14:17 32:4 38:9 

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113:9 

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85:6 97:5 

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latitude 39:14 

81:11 117:14 

lawl:22 4:3,ll,15 

4:21 6:13,17,22 

8:8 10:7 11:7,11 

12:6,22 13:4,8,12 

13:20 14:8 15:9 

30:7 31:7,10 

32:19,22 35:6,12 

38:2,6 39:6,11,20 

51:10,13 54:1 

55:8,11 56:17,21 

57:9 63:4 64:12 

66:7 67:14,19 

68:4,8,16 78:19 

78:22 79:10 86:1 

87:2,11,18 88:4 

88:11 89:6 90:3,7 

90:1091:13,18,21 

93:18 94:2 99:5 

102:17 103:4 

105:20 106:1,11 

106:21 107:6 

108:9,13,17 109:3 

113:1 116:4,7,14 

116:20 117:1,11 

117:18 119:21 

120:3,22 121:9,19 

122:5,9 123:7,15 

123:20 124:4,8,12 

124:16 126:4,8 

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laying 71:6 

layout 63:16,20 

lead 48:9 

learned 101:16 

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leave 72:9 

leaving 37:1 44:4,5 

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111:19 113:14,16 

114:15,19 119:4,8 

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77:10 78:16 93:4 

94:11 111:7 

left,because78:12 

legal 120:19 

length 79:6 

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68:19 

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55:1,2 65:6,22 

119:1 120:11 

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124:12,17 125:12 

level 53:19 

license 76:12 89:22 

life 123:22 

lift 111:7 

likelihood 105:4 

limitations 52:21 

53:21 

lines 63:7 

little 12:4 24:3 70:9 

73:17 79:21 

load 75:3 84:12 

85:2 

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70:12 71:8 

loads 73:20 74:1 

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101:11 102:13 

103:9,15 105:3 

112:6 

location 7:21 9:13 

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Nea l R. Gross & Co. 

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months 107:19 

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202-234-443 3 
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phone 5:4 

photo 3:18 30:22 

32:5,12 

photograph 101:5 

102:10 103:8,20 

photographs 38:7 

Photos 3:18 

Pick 94:2 

picked 70:12 

picks 108:4 

picture 32:8 101:7 

107:17,22 108:5 

piIot8:6,16,18 9:3 

14:20 23:12,16 

25:5 26:20,21 

33:9 42:22 43:11 

43:13 45:5,10 

59:7 69:14 80:3,5 

80:12,13 83:7,12 

86:8 93:3,7,10 

110:13 112:20 

119:3,8 

pilots 82:17,22 

pilot's 23:19 

111:17 113:22 

Pizza 21:1 

place 118:18 

placed 60:12 118:6 

placing 65:20 

Plaines2:7 

plane 10:17,20 

plans 124:9 

Plant 14:20 15:13 

89:1 

please4:8,12,17 

14:1 68:10 88:1,7 

108:19,21 117:4 

pointll:l 61:12 

Pag e 13 5 

66:6 86:9 104:8 I 

107:1,22 

pointed 6:7 36:19 

policy 93:16 

port3:18 7:17 8:2 

8:22 9:20 20:1,19 

23:6 24:1825:15 

26:3,15 27:14,21 

29:2 32:8 42:21 

44:1946:1747:13 

48:1,6,16 49:6 

58:1660:1265:21 

72:17 74:7 77:1 

78:6 82:19 84:21 

86:17 95:6 96:19 

98:1,21 101:6,7 

102:13 103:1,9 

105:5,14 111:9,11 

111:14,20 114:22 

118:6 

portion 56:12 

posed 101:22 

position 19:11 

69:13 109:15 

123:6 

possibility 46:21 

65:7 66:2 98:7 

possible 64:7,15 

possibly 47:9 49:2 

97:7,14 98:14 

102:1 104:9,12,12 

power 14:20 15:12 

89:1 111:5 

practice 124:5 

precedent 120:19 

prefer 11:5 

preliminary 6:4 

present 113:8 

President4:19 9:8 

41:20 45:7 117:8 

prevent 96:5 

118:18,18 

Preventing 59:5 

previous 33:19 

37:9 62:8 66:19 

79:22 

previously 31:14 

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc 

202-234-4433 
33:4 35:1839:17 

51:17 55:15 57:3 

122:1 

principal 92:18 

99:12,16 

priorll:19 15:16 

41:1342:1567:21 

81:15 87:5 106:3 

116:10 

private 124:5 

privy 81:18 

pro 2:16 

probably 15:6 

53:1771:11 76:4 

94:5 95:9 124:17 

125:16 

problem 48:19 

98:9 107:12 

problems 70:7 

procedure 78:4 

procedures 77:11 

proceed6:18 61:7 

process 52:12 

112:11 

procrastinator 

124:3 

Product 50:18 51:5 

proffered 30:15 

32:2 34:5 50:11 

54:10 56:3 

promulgated 10:11 

pronounce 14:2 

proper 39:7 

properly 46:5 

Proposed 86:7 

protect 108:3 

provide 120:17 

provided 62:7,16 

101:5 

public 19:22 

purpose 12:14 96:5 

pursuant 1:19 

pushed 73:6 

put5:7 10:1638:18 

38:2147:22 48:15 

70:10 72:16 77:18 

77:20 78:5 

putting20:18 70:8 

82:18 

P-R-0-C-E-E-D-... 

4:1 

qualifications 83:9 

quarter 105:7 

quarters 79:17 

question 38:4 

48:1465:1,13 

101:6,22 103:21 

questions 38:9 57:7 

57:11 59:17 63:7 

66:6 67:15 85:22 

105:19 116:3 

quick 116:18 

quickly 6:6 86:3 

quit 97:17 

quite62:21 101:14 

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radio 112:19 

raise5:15 13:21 

68:9 108:18 

raised 50:4 

ramp 17:12 74:18 

range 20:8 

ranger 22:2,19,20 

rangers 22:9 

Rapid 1:15 16:11 

16:16 83:13 90:20 

109:14 

rating 14:22 

reader 107:15 

ready 26:9,10 

111:7 

realize 67:6 

realized 9:6 27:20 

28:11 37:2 52:2 

67:7 

reaUy73:19 

reason 18:18 24:21 

25:1961:1296:4 

97:5,9 98:4 102:3 

104:1 105:10 

113:17 121:8 

reasons 49:16 

64:19 

rebuttal 125:6,7 

recaU 81:14 82:3 

84:15 100:4,5 

120:1 

receive 19:14,18 

36:15 52:19 

received 3:15 28:18 

31:11,1633:1,6 

34:12,14,21 35:16 

35:20 36:13,21 

39:13,1951:14,19 

54:1555:1,12,17 

56:22 57:5 62:2 

114:3 121:20 

122:3 

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recognize 30:17 

32:4 34:8,10 36:8 

50:13,15 54:12 

56:6 

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recommended 

82:10,12 

reconvene 87:13 

record 4:4,8,16 

15:7 68:11 87:15 

87:19 88:2 102:18 

106:16 107:10 

108:3,10 116:18 

117:5 121:7 

125:15 126:10 

records 63:1 77:2 

99:18 

Recross 3:5 

red 58:4,6,12 61:14 

114:13,15 

redact 5:2 

redirect 3:5 66:8 

66:10 86:2,4 

105:21 116:5 

reduced 76:17 

refer 107:8 

referred 16:21 

106:14 107:11 

referring 39:14 

59:3 

refuel 77:16 

refueled 70:6 77:6 

77:13,14 78:4 

refueling 71:7 77:7 

77:22 78:2 

regarding 9:4 

19:15 57:22 65:16 

82:4 99:20 118:3 

118:13 

regardless 95:21 

regards 58:15 70:2 

76:8 98:5 

regional 2:5 90:11 

regs 123:1 

regular 73:9 

regulations 59:10 

82:13 119:16 

regulatory 122:15 

relevant6:9 

relocate 12:8,17 

relocated 70:11 

remain 67:16,18 

87:8 106:6 116:8 

remember 5:18 

22:1843:1,6 60:1 

60:19 63:21 67:4 

69:21 76:15 77:3 

77:5,6,22 78:2 

83:11 85:13 

remembering 8:12 

removed 78:5 

rendered 65:16 

rep 64:8 

repair 16:4 

repeat 95:10 

report 62:15 76:11 

76:20 

reporter 5:14 

repositioned 25:8 

27:6 

representative 49:8 

82:1 

representatives 

64:17 

reps 64:3 

request 10:1 11:9 

requested 53:6,8 

Pag e 13 6 

100:16 

requirement 96:9 

requirements 52:9 

reserve 10:22 

respectfully 9:22 

respond 123:8 

125:6 

responded 27:17 

28:1 

Respondent 2:14 

3:22 7:6,9,21 10:2 

10:22 17:7 19:15 

21:4 122:2 

Respondent's 7:16 

7:20 8:5 9:3,8,13 

21:21 25:541:11 

121:14,18,20,21 

response 54:16 

55:1 125:3 

responsibilities 

17:1 

responsible45:2,5 

45:8 119:9 

restaurant 20:13 

20:22 60:7 

rests 105:22 

retired 83:15 

return 12:18 29:5 

89:18 90:1 

returned 26:22 

27:2,3 44:12 84:4 

returning 22:3 

reviews 107:20 

RICHARD 1:21 

rides 18:6 112:9 

right 5:16 6:19 

11:2 13:22 16:10 

19:1420:1629:15 

29:17 57:1068:9 

72:13 80:19 83:11 

100:4 108:18 

121:12 122:12 

rights 11:9 

risk 47:19 

Robert 3:6 8:6 68:7 

68:13,19 

Robinsons 93:8 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
Roger 83:1,3,10 

119:3 

role 107:9 

roll96;6 105:13 

rolled 47:15 

rollover 118:19 

rooms 12:4 

rotor 47:2,3 69:8 

98:12 

routine 74:18 

rule 6:2 11:12,15 

running 24:17 

26:16 59:14 98:13 

110:16 

Rushmore 1:9 3:19 

3:194:5,196:9 

7:6 8:189:15,17 

17:7,17,18 18:3,8 

18:9,13,17 19:4,6 

19:1621:13 29:9 

33:9 36:14 40:2 

41:16,22 44:3 

45:3,10 51:22 

58:7,11 66:16 

69:9 78:8 79:8 

81:6 92:12,19 

93:9 94:9 97:21 

99:13,21 100:9 

107:5 109:22 

117:9 120:8 

Rushmore's69:18 

R-O-B-E-R-T 

68:14 

R44s93:8 100:3 

S 3:4,4,4 46:4 

safe26:16 45:19 

46:7,12,16,18 

53:4 74:6 95:13 

96:19 119:11 

safely 67:9,11 74:3 

safety 16:10,18,19 

46:19 47:11 50:4 

58:17,18 59:13 

81:3 82:20 83:18 

90:19 96:17 

100:11,19 104:9 

109:17,19 112:18 

118:21 

sanction 10:4 86:7 

sanctioned 85:18 

Saturday 8:11 

saw22:20 23:5 

26:11 27:14 29:4 

31:2 32:13 60:2 

74:1684:5 112:10 

saying 102:14 

107:19 124:5 

says 45:5,6 

schedule 29:12,15 

33:19 34:11,18,21 

36:12 37:5,8,15 

37:17,1941:2 

42:4 66:15,17,19 

66:22 123:9 

125:22 

schedules 34:22 

35:10 37:9 66:20 

school 16:5 80:2,7 

100:22 

scribbling 62:17 

SD2:18 

SDC 46:5 

se2:16 

sealed 46:22 48:6 

48:15 

season 79:16 

seated 14:1 68:10 

88:1 108:19 117:4 

second 51:21 

seconds 115:8 

secured 98:11 

Security 5:4 

see 16:1 20:17 23:1 

23:6,8 24:18 

25:20 26:4 36:18 

45:1671:6,19 

88:4 89:9 102:19 

108:5 111:11 

112:5 122:17 

seen 10:9,10 58:20 

116:1 

sees 122:11 

send 120:13 125:9 

126:2 

sent 50:1651:1 

52:17 60:9 120:12 

separate 54:18,20 

64:16 65:15 

sequestered 11:10 

service 45:7 80:9 

89:19,21 90:1 

setl05:ll,12 

Shane 93:6 

sheet3:19,19 46:3 

ship 5:21 

shop 12:7 

short 21; 17 26:22 

42:5 

showed 42:8 43:9 

showing30:9 31:18 

33:20 35:22 

shows 102:11 

shut7:2 27:12 71:3 

73:5 105:10 

side 13:6 22:21 

23:6,7 96:6 97:6 

104:5 

sides 122:20 

sightseeing 18:6 

sign53:3 125:10 

simple 52:12 

Single 69:8 

single-engine 16:7 

sir4:15 10:21 

13:20 39:10 67:20 

68:8 87:3 106:1 

108:17 113:10 

117:17 121:2 

sister 17:18 

sit 89:8 

site 7:11 

sitting 22:21 

situated 105:3 

situation 27:16 

52:16 119:17 

six 107:19 

small 16:7 

Social 5:4 

solely 121:4 

Nea l R- Gross So Co . 

202-234-443 3 

somebody 11:21 

107:13,19 108:4 

someplace 12:1 

sorry 8:7 61:3 

65:1279:1481:13 

91:4 108:12 

sort 47:15 

sounds 18:22 88:10 

south 1:156:11,12 

7:129:14 13:3,5 

18:10,1541:11 

72:21 83:13 

109:14 110:4 

Sox 13:9 

space 108:11 

spare 71:15 

speak33:1741:16 

43:7 49:18 52:14 

93:2 94:8,16 

speaking 59:19 

60:14 

specific 22:14 25:1 

specifically 60:10 

84:17 101:8 

105:15 111:13 

114:2,9 

specify 114:11 

Specs 45:6 

speculation 63:3 

64:11 

spen4:12 14:3 

68:11 88:6 93:19 

108:20 117:5 

spelled 15:10 

spelling 94:5 

spend 124:1 

spent 71:11 80:2 

spill 47:18 

spillage 96:5 

118:19 

spilling 97:7 

splash 105:5 

spoke 23:14,15 

24:1225:441:18 

43:21 57:20 60:22 

61:4,9,18 64:4,5 

111:10 114:19 

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Pag e 13 7 

118:10 

spoken 59:7 62:10 

64:22 65:15 

stand 5:8 13:21 

68:9 

standard 77:10 

Standards 16:11 

52:15 91:2 

standing 84:5 

start 7:1 12:19 

started 4:22 83:11 

starting 59:15 

111:4 

starvation 47:10 

48:10 97:16 

state 17:5 68:10 

88:1 108:19 117:4 

stated 44:17 49:11 

49:21 52:21 60:20 

64:18 

statement 3:10 

6:1928:1865:11 

94:5 116:18 

states 1:1 45:17 

80:4 

station 16:4 

stay 5:8 67:22 

106:8 121:13 

step33:10 116:8 

stop5:16 26:13,16 

26:18 112:16 

stopped 59:1 67:9 

112:18 

stopping 59:2,3 

story 113:17 

straight 53:19 

street 1:14 21:3 

structural 65:3,8 

65:17 73:19 82:9 

104:20 118:16 

stuff46:19 

subject 39:7 

$ubmit5:l 123:2 

subsequent 120:14 

suburbs 13:3 

sufficient 123:14 

supermarket 15:10 
Page 13 8 

supervisors 120:16 

Support 50:18 51:5 

suppose47:8 64:14 

sure5:2 6:22 18:21 

30:7 35:13 58:8 

78:19 101:14 

107:10 108:3 

123:21 

surveillance 17:4 

99:20 100:8 

115:21 

suspend 76:12 

suspended 76:20 

suspension 76:18 

76:20 86:12 

sworn 14:13 68:21 

88:16 109:8 

117:22 

system 47:4 63:13 

65:22 97:13,20 

101:8,19 102:2,4 

102:9,11 103:14 

104:2,11 105:2 

118:16,17 

systems 92:6 

100:22 101:3,14 

T 

T3:4 68:15 

TABLE 3:1 

tact 107:10 108:3 

tail 10:12 

take 26:20 29:4 

33:21 36:1 54:1 

56:5 59:15 77:15 

87:3,12 111:4 

113:22 115:3 

116:15 

taken 66:20 

takes 7:10 

talk 11:22 28:9 

29:5,20 43:4 

74:22 75:6 84:10 

84:14 85:15 94:18 

talked 20:9,10,21 

21:10,12,1724:8 

33:8 36:22 75:10 

83:19 

talking42:22 49:19 

107:21 108:5 

tank 73:22 95:22 

98:18 105:2,8 

tanks23:8 97:14 

tape 7:17 8:2,22 

9:13,19 10:16,17 

19:22 20:18 25:14 

26:2,5,11 27:15 

27:2129:2 33:9 

40:8 41:6 42:20 

44:19 46:17,20 

47:12,22 48:6,15 

48:1849:5 58:15 

60:11 61:1665:20 

67:6,8 72:16 74:6 

75:11,22 76:22 

77:15,19,21,21 

78:5,6 82:18 

83:20 84:20 86:17 

95:6 96:18,21 

97:2,1098:1,5,10 

98:20 102:19 

103:11 104:15 

111:8,11,14,20 

112:6 114:4,6 

118:5 

taped 97:14 

Team 16:11 

tech 9:2 45:18,20 

46:3,12,14 50:2 

53:2 64:2 82:1,7 

96:10 

technical 12:11,13 

12:15 49:8 64:17 

Technically 106:15 

Tel 2:8,20 

telephone 44:22 

76:1481:14 118:9 

tell 40:18 42:10 

75:11,1986:16 

107:15 111:5,19 

121:4 

temporarily 74:6 

ten 7:22 9:18 40:5 

40:19 77:3 87:12 

term 5:15 

termination 81:8 

testified 14:14 61:5 

68:22 79:6 88:17 

98:17 105:7 109:9 

118:1 

testify 7:20 9:4 

11:17 12:1659:17 

testimony 9:21 

11:1962:767:21 

87:5 106:3 113:9 

116:9 122:20 

Texas 80:5 92:5 

thank 7-4 10-6 14-8 

57:12 112:21 

thing 17:14 47:20 

49:21 53:20 85:14 

97:11 111:3,6 

things4;22 42:3 

70:16 81:2 100:6 

107:11 110:12 

112:9 125:14 

think 6:1 24:22 

27:4 47:2164:7 

65:6 66:1 70:16 

76:1,13 79:9,11 

79*12 83-10 94-4 

101:6 107:15 

108:2 116:15 

123:13 124:2 

thinking 75:16 

97:12 

thought 42:19 

61:16 

threat 81:8,8 

three 22:11 64:5,16 

72:3 79:16 100:14 

119:5 124:18 

three-day 101:3 

throw 91:22 

time 16:20 19:13 

21:1,15,1822:3,8 

22:12,18,22 23:9 

25-.2,l0,n 26:8 

26:17,22 27:19 

28:12,13 32:18 

35:5 38:139:5 

40:15 42:13 44:10 

47:22 51:9 54:2 

55:7 56:16 57:8 

58:2 59:9,11,12 

71:13 73:9 78:1 

81:4 82:16 84:3 

93:3 97:12 99:15 

100:2,6 104:6 

112:1 116:13 

118:15,20 119:7 

120:2 124:15 

125:16 

times 6:9 60:15,20 

tires 10:13,15,16 

today 7:13 9:4,22 

told 8:16 20:6 

28:17 37:18 44:20 

45:9 66:18 70:18 

84:9 85:2 114:7,7 

120:12,15 

top 49:22 50:1 

114:22 

total 80:19 

tour6:10 18:5 19:8 

80:3,4 

tours 7:11 

track 90-12 

training 92:5 

transcript5:12 

8:12 107:14,16,20 

124:15,17,19,22 

transpired 113:13 

118:12 

TRANSPORTA... 

1:3 

traveled 33:13 

tried43:10 72:12 

115:20 

true 34:20 50:22 

try5:8,1626:16,18 

100:11,18 

trying5:18 8:10,11 

28:21 43:1 74:1 

107.2,18 121:4 

Tuesday 93:1 

turned 67:2 

turning 23:9 24:5 

24:17 

turns 125:20 

twin 16:8 

two 10:15 12:3 22:9 

64:16 80:4 88:9 

102:20 124:10,18 

125:5 

type 17:13 47:16 

53:20 95:12,15,18 

95:19 96:1,2,2,14 

99:1,2 102:9 

104:16,17,22 

types 22:12 

1 

u 1 

unable 9:11 | 

unairworthy 8:21 

46:14 49:12,15 

50:3 64:19 80:22 

85:9,12 95:5,8 

122:19 

unavailable 72:7 

underneath 103:10 

103:17 

understand 5:15 

19:2 45:9 86:15 

107:4 110:3 

understanding 

117:15 

understood 93:5 

104:18 105:17 

Unfortunately 9:11 

UNITED 1:1 

unloaded 70:21 

85:7 

unsafe 58:22 80:22 

97:2,10 98:5 

unwilling 100:10 

unworthy 46:6 

upset43:10,12 

upstairs 12:3 

use 15:22 38:13 1 

74:6 90:14 j 

usually 52:11,20 

U-turn 70:17 | 

U.S 1:3,14 80:9 | 

1 V 1 

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 
Pag e 13 9 

variety 92:3 

various 73:10 

varying 64:3 

vent 48:7 97:13,20 

101:8,11,20 102:4 

102:11,11,12,15 

103:6,8,15,15 

104:4 

vented 48:2,5,12,13 

48:17 97:13 

101:17 118:17 

ventilation 48:18 

vents 101:18 

verbatim 113:13 

verify 101:21 

version 91:11 

vertically 102:19 

vicinity 6:11 

Vietnam 80:2 

violation 10:2 28:8 

54:19 59:10 75:21 

75:22 82:13 

122:15,16 

visible 59:20 60:5 

visited 93:6 94:12 

visiting 7:11 93:12 

visually 107:22 

vital 121:7 

voice 72:9 

W 

W3:4 

wait 11:2 25:19 

waiting 13:14 24:2 

29:3,5 75:2,4 

84:12 108:11 

walk 5:22 27:9 

walked21:12,22 

22:1,1627:11,13 

walking 27:3 

Walters 80:5 

want4;16 6:2 

10:21 13:21 24:14 

67:16 91:22 96:7 

116:21 117:14 

121:3,13 123:16 

wanted 42:3 84:9 

84:14 

warned 44:15 

wash 47:2 

washes 98:12 

Washington 

124:19 

wasn't 10:19 22:14 

25:3 26:7 48:17 

59:16 71:8 73:4 

75:15,15 92:21 

94:22 97:1998:11 

104:13,13 

wayn: 4 15:10 

19:2 37:1 48:13 

49:13 67:7 74:5 

98:14 100:12 

105:2 112:13,17 

119:18 121:5 

122:11 

wearing 100:5 

Wednesday 1:12 

week 125:7,17 

weeks 123:11 

124:10,18 125:5 

weights 74:1 

welcome 7:2 

Weller 29:7,20 

36:13 37:7,17 

61:21 62:1,16 

66:18 

went 7:20 20:7,9 

22:1 24:12 25:6 

25:1633:1740:22 

60:16 62:9 70:11 

71:4 72:2,16 73:5 

74:13,20,21 75:7 

76:10 78:11 80:2 

84:8 90:8 92:21 

92:22 93:1,4,5 

94:11,12 107:17 

110:3,10,14 111:1 

114:2 

weren't 29:1 

we'll 5:16 6:18 7:13 

11:12,15 12:1 

75:6 87:12 115:3 

126:9 

we'vel01:16 

whatsoever 85:11 

whichever 94:3 

Whiskey 23:4 

30:21 32:9 40:3,6 

70:1,3 101:6 

112:4 

win 13:14 

wing 16:7 69:7 

89:19 

witness 12:3,11,13 

12:21 13:17 15:12 

24:9,19 30:14 

31:19 32:1 34:4,6 

35:22 36:6 50:10 

54:9 56:2 57:10 

64:14 67:15 68:2 

68:5 79:12,15 

87:9,20 89:10 

90:5,8 91:15,20 

92:1 93:20 94:4 

98:16 103:10 

106:9 108:11 

116:11 118:3 

witnesses 5:7 11:10 

11:12,16 12:9,18 

116:13 

woman 12:3 20:9 

wonder 10:8 

wondered 71:15 

woods 71:11 

word 113:22 115:4 

words 88:9 

work 19:2 30:4 

63:10 109:13 

115:16 125:1 

worked 16:5 30:2 

89:15,16,20 91:10 

100:13 

working 19:10 

69:16 89:18 124:1 

worry 123:11 

worthiness 47:17 

wouldn't43;19 

53:14 

wrapped 10:17 

written 120:17 

wrong5:9 110:18 

~ ^ ~ 

Y91:14 

year 50:21 51:2 

79:17,18 80:4 

years 13:15 43:14 

80:11 83:12 

100:14 124:6 

yellow 37:14 

Zurales 76:16 

87:14 

Z-U-R-A-L-E-S 

87:14 

0 

09 9:5 19:11 34:19 

41:3 69:16 76:22 

77:8 79:19 

13:18 6:8,8 30:10 

30:1331:5,11,12 

31:16 38:5,6,12 

121:14 

1/4 98:18 

10:1987:16 

10:20 87:3 

10:30 87:13 

10:35 87:13 

10:42 87:17 

109 3:8 

11th 93:1 

11:19126:12 

1133:8 

1183:8 

120 3:8 

1213:23 

122 3:23 

13516:2 

137 16:2 

143:6 10:2 

145 16:4 

147 16:5 

15-minute 87:12 

15-20 76:4 

16/385 2:17 

19th 51:2 

1968 80:2 

1985 89:4,14 

1988 15:20 

1995 15:20 

199615:17 

199715:3 

199891:17 

23:1831:19,22 

32:17 33:1,2,6 

38:5,6,13 91:11 

102:18 

2:00 20:821:17,18 

21:18 

2:3021:19 

20 80:11 124:6 

200015:6 

2007 36:20 

2008 92:5 

2009 7:7 16:14 17:3 

31:2 32:1440:4 

66:14,1569:11 

92:13 110:1 

2010-0023 4:6 

2011 1:13 

20591:12 

2067:79:1042:12 

45:12 52:2 63:10 

63:11,13 78:9 

92:4,7 101:5 

105:2 

206B92:9 

206s 92:3 

2150,3B3:21 56:8 

2268 101:6 112:4 

2300 2:6 

24564 2:17 

27 1:13 40:21 

294-7498 2:9 

294-82752:8 

33:1933:21 34:3 

35:4,15,16,20 

303:188:1 9:19 

Neal R. Gross & Co., 

202-234-4433 

Inc. 
Pag e 14 0 

115:8 123:13 

30-day 76:18 

313:18,18 

333:18 

343:19 

353:19 

363:19 

393:19 

390-61192:21 

43:1936:1,5 37:22 

39:4,12,13,19 

40:2 66:13 

4,500 80:19 

4/19 50:21 

4:00 5:18 30:4 

4:30 6:2 

4013:1543:13 

47 100:3 

53:21 54:5,8 55:6 

55:12,13,17 

5:00 6:3 

50 3:20 

50-page 123:3 

513:20 

515 1:14 

54 3:21 

55 3:21 

55-56 3:21 

57 3:6,21 

57730 2:18 

63:21 55:20 56:1 

56:15,22 57:1,5 

6th 9:7 19:17 28:20 

35:1,10 36:20 

37:6 41:2 61:20 

62:4,5,8 66:14 

69:10,16 70:5,5 

118:4 

60 76:13 

600182:7 

605 2:20,21 

64 3:6 

663:6 83:11 

673-2163 2:20 

6840:3,5 70:1,3 

69 80:4 

73:12.20 7:732:14 

50:6,9 51:8,14,15 

51:19 

7th 9:5 19:11,17 

31:2 33:11 34:22 

35:11 36:1337:5 

37:18,1940:4,16 

42:14 57:20 61:20 

62:2 66:15 69:10 

70:5 74:12 76:22 

77:8 78:11 79:18 

81:15 92:13 110:1 

118:4,8 

7:00 102:22 

7:30 108:6 

76-gallon 63:15 

79 3:6 

8 

8/6 34:19 

8130.2F45:17,17 

847 2:8,9 

84945:6 

86 3:6 

88 3:7 

9th 1:14 

9:001:19 103:5 

108:6 

9:03 4:2 

9:305:19 

91 16:1,5 18:5 19: 

85:19 119:9 

91.13A10:3 

91.7 76:1 

91.7A10:2 

97 90:9 

98 92:3 

99 3:7 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , 

202-234-443 3 

I n c 
r^ 141 

CERTIFICAT E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Rushmore Helicopters 

Before: US DOT 

Date: 04-27-11 

Place: Washington, DC 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

Court Reporter 

(202) 2344433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealfgross.com