IN THE 

IN THE MATER OF: 

QUENTON T. BROWN 

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 

) FDMS NO. FAA-2011-1009 

3:02 p.m. 

Conference Room, Suite 600 

Heritage Reporting Corporation 

1220 L Street, N.W. 

Washington, D.C. 

Tuesday, 

January 10, 2 012 

The parties met, pursuant to the notice, at":-

BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN 

Administrative Law Judge 

APPEARANCES: (Via Telephone) 

On behalf of Complainant: 

MARK G. CAMACHO, Esquire 

Office of the Regional Counsel 

Central Region, ACE-7 

Federal Aviation Administration 

901 Locust, Room 506 

Kansas City, MO 64106-2641 

816-329-3765/816-329-3771 (FAX) 

'0 

•FT 

o:-

en 

U^yfififW 

On Behalf of Respondent: 

(No Appearance.) 

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1 PROCEEDING S 

2 (3:02 p.m.) 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: --in the matter of Quenton 

4 T. Brown. This is Docket Number FAA-2011-1009. Today 

5 is Tuesday, January 10, 2012, and the parties have 

6 reconvened for a third litigation scheduling 

7 conference. 

8 Present on behalf of the FAA is Mark G. 

9 Camacho, the attorney of record. The pro se 

10 Respondent Quenton T. Brown is not present and there 

11 is no explanation for his absence. I'11 note that 

12 prior to going on the record this afternoon, Diane 

13 Mays, my legal assistant, advised me that she had 

14 tried to call Mr. Brown three times prior to convening 

15 this telephone conference call. Ms. Mays called Mr. 

16 Brown at his telephone number of record which is 321-

17 594-8501. She called at 2:54 p.m.; 2:56 p.m., and at 

18 3:00p.m. The schedule start time of this conference 

19 is 3:00 p.m. and we did start on time. Ms. Mays also 

20 noted that she reached Mr. Brown's voice mail and left 

21 messages but there's been no response from him. We 

22 are going to proceed without him as a result. 

23 In terms of the history of this case leading 

24 to this third litigation scheduling conference, I'll 

25 note that on December 7, 2011, both Mr. Camacho and 

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3 

1 Mr. Brown appeared by telephone for a second 

2 litigation scheduling conference. At that time, they 

3 discussed the merits, to a certain extent of the case. 

4 They also discussed the process of the case and their 

5 mutual calendar availability for further conferences. 

6 Prior to concluding the telephone conference 

7 on December 7, 2011, this Administrative Court worked 

8 with both Mr. Brown and Mr. Camacho and their calendar 

9 availability, and set this third litigation scheduling 

10 conference on a date and at a time when both agreed 

11 that they would be available. So, Mr. Brown 

12 participated in scheduling this particular conference 

13 and was directly aware of the conference date time 

14 and how to appear before this Court for the 

15 conference. 

16 In addition, on December 8, 2011, the 

17 Administrative Court issued an order setting third 

18 litigation scheduling conference which was a three19 page order, if you include the service list that was 

20 attached to that order. 

21 In that order, the Court reiterated the 

22 date, place and time of this third litigation 

23 scheduling conference, as well as all other orders and 

24 rulings and agreements that have been discussed and 

25 decided during the December 7, 2011, telephone 

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1 conference. 

2 This order was sent to both Mr. Camacho and 

3 to Mr. Brown at their addresses of record. The Order 

4 noted that Mr. Brown had specifically requested a 

5 change of address for all future legal mailings. As a 

6 result, the Order was sent to the new address that Mr. 

7 Brown had requested this Court use. 

8 Interestingly, the order sent to Mr. Brown 

9 was returned to this office in late December as 

10 address unknown. Eventually, there was an 

11 insufficient address and the United States Postal 

12 Service was unable to delivery the mail to Mr. Brown. 

13 A- check of the envelope addressed to Mr. Brown showed 

14 the address was identical to the address that he 

15 provided to this Court during the December 7, 2011, 

16 conference. 

17 However, since Mr. Brown had indicated 

18 orally on December 7, 2011, that he still received 

19 mail at his old address, this Court took the option of 

20 resending the Order that was filed December 8, 2011, 

21 to Mr. Brown's former address of record. That was 

22 resent on December 29, 2011. 

23 The former address of record was 622 West 

24 Miller Street, Orlando, Florida, 32805-4 -- 2. That 

25 particular mailing has not been returned. That order 

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1 was resent. This Court did receive on January 9, 

2 2012, the FAA's motion to deem allegations admissions 

3 admitted and we'll be talking a little bit about that 

4 sometime today. 

5 Mr. Camacho, I'm going to turn to December 

6 8, 2011, order, and I'm just going to walk through the 

7 material in that order to see if there was any 

8 progress since the parties met with me on December 7, 

9 2011. If you have that order in hand, it might be 

10 helpful to turn to it now. 

11 On page 1 of the December 8, 2011, order, it 

12 indicates at the bottom of the page that Mr. Brown 

13 shall file a written answer to the FAA's December 21, 

14 2011, Notice of Complaint. I did not receive any 

15 written answer from Mr. Brown. And it appeared from 

16 your motion to deem allegations admitted that the FAA 

17 has not received any answer either. Is that --

18 MR. CAMACHO; That is correct. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. On page 2 of the 

20 December 8, 2011, Order, there was an agreement that 

21 was entered into by the parties on December 7, 2011, 

22 in which they were going to talk to each other. You 

23 were going to talk to each other on January 5, 2012, 

24 at 3:00 p.m. Did you make that call on January 5, 

25 2012? 

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1 MR. CAMACHO: Yes. I called exactly 1:00 

2 o'clock and I was able to raise Mr. Brown at the phone 

3 number provided, 321 area code, 594-8501. I started -

4 - I'm sorry. Initially we discussed a number of 

5 things. In other words, what I did was recap my 

6 reason for the call, consistent with the Order, 

7 consistent with the prior discussions. I reminded him 

8 of what we were talk to about, and I took him back to 

9 his initial statement made, I believe, during the 

10 conference where he stated that he did not believe he 

11 should pay any money. 

12 I asked him if his decision was that he did 

13 not believe he was responsible for happened or -- and 

14 then, I said, if that is - - in terms of settlement we 

15 have to - - each party would have to shift their 

16 position away from their original starting point such 

17 that we can sort of meet in the middle of the road and 

18 each is prepared to compromise their position and give 

19 up something in exchange for a resolution other than 

20 through litigation. 

21 He asked me questions pertaining to how this 

22 would reflect on his credit rating, whether this was a 

23 Judgment, et cetera. I explained to him that he was 

24 asking for a legal opinion, that I could not give him 

25 a legal opinion. I told him, I said, Mr. Brown, I 

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1 will tell you what this action is not and -- but if 

2 you need a legal opinion as to whether it affects your 

3 credit rating, I can't address that. 

4 So, I explained to him that this was not a -

5 a judgment from a civil court, that this was an 

6 administrative action. That it was a civil penalty 

7 and that it was a matter of record for our agency; it 

8 would be a matter of public record with regard to the 

9 Freedom of information act, assuming that it's 

10 releasable, et cetera. 

11 He once more wanted to know whether the 

12 payment of any monies would reflect on his credit. I 

13 again told him I could not be responsive to the 

14 question because it's not a legal opinion and that he 

15 needed to get a legal opinion, if he wanted it, from 

16 private counsel. I couldn't represent him in that 

17 regard. 

18 At that point, he said, "well, I," -- let 

19 me read here what my notes reflect. "I want to talk 

20 to someone to get help to understand what I'm doing in 

21 this case with regard to this payment or settlement 

22 discussions." 

23 I said, "Okay." And then I reminded him 

24 that we had a teleconference with you on Tuesday. I 

25 said, "Mr. Brown, that's fine. That's certainly your 

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1 right to do that. I understand if you're not 

2 comfortable talking with me about this. Talk to 

3 whomever you need to." I said, "I want to remind you 

4 that we have a meeting on Tuesday in telephone 

5 conference with the Judge on January 9." 

6 He said, I know, or something like that. I 

7 mean, I'm paraphrasing. I did not put down his exact 

8 response. But he responded affirmatively that he 

9 understood what I was telling him. At that point we 

ID hung up. I think this entire conversation lasted all 

11 of, perhaps, 9 to 12 minutes, not longer than that. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I have a couple questions 

13 to ask you, Mr. Camacho. 

14 MR. CAMACHO: Yes. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: YOU indicated in your 

16 initial statement that you called Mr. Brown at 1:00. 

17 MR. CTiMACHO: Yes. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN; The telephone conference 

19 was scheduled for 3:00 p.m., eastern time. 

20 MR. CAMACHO: I stand corrected. My 

21 calendar does indicate 2:00 p.m., my time here. I put 

22 it on my calendar to call him at 2:00. I called him 

23 at 2:00, but when I looked at my calendar to make my 

24 notes, I misunderstood that the 2:00 was not 2:00 

25 eastern, but 2:00 central. And I put down 1:00 p.m. 

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1 on my notes to reflect that I had -- to back off one 

2 hour. 

3 In fact, point of fact, the order required 

4 me to call at 2:00 p.m., my time; at 3:00 p.m., 

5 eastern time and I did call him at that time. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 

7 MR. CAMACHO: Yes. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Also, it indicated that you 

9 reminded him of the telephone conference and you 

10 indicated that the date was yesterday on January 9. 

11 MR. CAMACHO; Let me see if I said that • 

12 correctly. I put conflicting information on my notes. 

13 I apologize. I state on my note, "I reminded him that 

14 we have a teleconference with the Judge on Tuesday,'" 

15 and then I entered the date, "1/9/2012," on my notes. 

16 That's what I read back to you. 

17 However, I was reading off of my calendar 

18 when I spoke with him. My calendar which is a large 

19 calendar. All my desk has today indicated -- that's 

20 why I indicated Tuesday. Again, that's an error on my 

21 note taking and I apologize, but I was trying to do 

22 this as I was going on the run. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. Let's 

24 then talk about what to do from here. I did receive 

25 your motion to deem allegations admitted. I'm 

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1 curious, though, about that motion. This appears to 

2 be fairly ripe at this point for a motion for default. 

3 And I wanted to ask you about that. 

4 Do you typically not file for default, and 

5 if so, is there a reason for that? 

6 MR. CAMACHO: Yes. There is a reason for 

7 that and the reasoning may not be sound, but it is 

8 based in large measure on my historical experience. 

9 My primary function here is to prosecute 

10 cases on behalf of the FAA Administrator in front of 

11 NTSB Administrative Law Judges. 

12 In the course of the prosecution of those 

13 case, the hearings are, as a matter of practicality, 

14 although interwoven very tightly, they are somewhat 

15 bifurcated in terms of not only findings of facts and 

16 conclusions of law, but the hearing on the merits is 

17 one phase, of sorts. And then there's an aspect of 

18 sanction which can be, and often times is, and many 

19 times can be and is heavily litigated, to the extent 

20 that -- not having -- even if there is a willingness 

21 to admit responsibility and admit all the facts. 

22 Still, the sanction issue is a very viable 

23 component of that hearing. And to the extent that 

24 that is the case, some Respondents and Respondent's 

25 counsel will, *you know, we don't want to dispute the 

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1 facts, but we believe that this sanction is too 

2 severe; not consistent with case law; not consistent 

3 with the promulgated Sanction Guidance Table that the 

4 administrator -- FAA Administrator has made available 

5 to the world at large. 

6 So, and so then that becomes a sort of mini7 trial unto itself. And historically when I've been in 

8 front of Judge Goodwin or others and Judge KolKo 

9 before him, many times I've found myself in the throes 

10 of the same type of situation where the Judge --

11 and/or opposing counsel - - and I will say, well, 

12 there's -- we'll stipulate to other facts. So, they 

13 will stipulate, yes, my client did this or that. 

14 And then the hearing begins -- really is 

15 limited to - - and I've had -- actually traveled to a 

16 hearing site, say in Iowa somewhere, where Judge 

17 Goodwin has shown and we've had the young man or young 

18 woman, whoever is involved, basically get up and say, 

19 well, you know, I don't really want to dispute the 

20 facts, but I think that this amount is too severe. 

21 Yada yada. 

22 At that point then the hearing basically 

23 becomes a hearing on the sanction and the 

24 reasonableness or lack thereof, of the civil penalty 

25 amount that was proposed to be 'assessed. 

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1 And so, my evidence then has to go really to 

2 show, more or less -- it's kind of a -- it really 

3 favors the Respondent, or in this case, the Appellate, 

4 because I basically have to put on facts to show that 

5 there's enough aggravation to justify the civil 

6 penalty that's proposed. 

7 While then, in turn, the Appellant can get 

8 up and say things to the nature of, well, Judge, you 

9 know, I don't know anything about that. If they're 

10 pro se, or even opposing counsel. They'll put their 

11 client on and say: 

12 Q "Is it a fact that you have 

13 recently lost your job?" 

14 A "Yes." 

15 Q "Are you currently on, you know, 

16 unemployment?" 

17 A "Yes." 

18 Q "Do you have a family?" 

19 Dada dada dada. And so, demonstrating 

20 either (1) a hardship situation or an inability to pay 

21 the amount versus a smaller amount. And so, in my 

22 experience, I have come to see these types of 

23 administrative hearings as having two somewhat 

24 distinctly viable option - - component parts. 

25 So, if there's no contention, however we get 

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1 there, on the facts, there's still the issue of the 

2 civil penalty and I guess I've never really 

3 anticipated --we have had hearings on the sanction in 

4 this case of a penalty amounts versus other type of 

5 sanction that can be taken against people in the 

6 aviation industry such as, you know, the suspending or 

7 revoking the certificates and thereby preventing them 

8 from continuing on to put this in this industry. 

9 And that's why the Motion, at the tail end, 

10 you'll see, that I thought it -- to accomplish the 

11 same objective. Because I think he still has a right 

12 to dispute. I think he still has a right to dispute 

13 the sanction with the simple penalty amount. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I understand you r 

15 reasoning, particularly when you're dealing with 

15 someone who is appearing and responding on some level. 

17 MR. CAMACHO: Yes. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We have someone who is 

19 failing to appear, failing to respond, failing to 

20 comply with Court orders and who has not even filed an 

21 answer --

2 2 MR. CAMACHO: Right. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- despite multiple 

24 attempts to provide him with that opportunity that go 

25 beyond the time that he was supposed to file. 

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1 MR. CAMACHO; Right. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It seems to me to be a case 

3 ripe for default on all levels. And I --

4 (Electronic Interference.) 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN; Please wait until I'm 

6 finished. Thank you. What I'm saying is, is that I 

7 don't have any problem with bifurcating something and 

8 I understand your practice for bifurcation; many 

9. people do that, particularly when you have a pro se 

10 litigant who is upset about the fine, but doesn't have 

11: much to offer in terms of the merits of the facts. 

12 MR. CAMACHO: Right. 

13- JUDGE SULLIVAN: But in this particular 

14 case, we don't even have an answer. And so I think 

15 • you and I need to talk about process with the 

16' government, both on the FAA's part and on the Office 

17 of Administrative Hearings part. 

18 It is spending a lot of taxpayer dollar to 

19 carry out a hearing that essentially the Respondent 

20 has defaulted on. I'm very aware, always, there's a 

21 cost of litigation both to the Respondent and to the 

22 government. And I don't like the idea necessarily of 

23 having you and myself and any witnesses traveling to 

24 come to a hearing just so that we can have a hearing 

25 in the absence of a Respondent who's never indicated a 

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1 genuine interest in participating, if that makes 

2 sense. 

3 MR. CAMACHO: Yes, it does. Of course, it 

4 makes perfect sense. But keep in mind, as a lawyer in 

5 the case, I don't have a lot to say about those 

6 ultimate decisions. I do believe you have sufficient 

7 authority granted to you, as the Judge in the case, 

8 too, as I indicated before on a sua sponte basis make 

9 that determination. 

10 I have sometimes filed motions in front of 

11 NTSB Administrative Law Judges, very much akin to what 

12 we are talking about here and they have on their own, 

13 sort of responding to, said, you know, this is 

14 essentially a motion for summary judgment, in a 

15 nutshell, and I'm going to rule accordingly, and make 

16 the ultimate finding, and you know, and Answer an 

17 Order accordingly." 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well --

19 MR. CAMACHO: I am not adverse to this. 

20 And my inclination is to follow your lead, because I 

21 have not had this particular experience before where 

22 the Appellant/ -- in my case, the Appellant, their 

23 behavior -- once they've filed their appeal, their 

24 behavior is such that it appears to be either totally 

25 disassociated from the process or they have made 

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1 themselves disenfranchise themselves from the process 

2 to the extent that they become non-existent in the 

3 process and I've just not had that situation. 

4 In the situations where I've flown to 

5 Chicago, by way of example. Judge Goodwin and 

6 Respondents haven't showed up. Judge Kolko, I've gone 

7 in different cities when he was alive, and they 

8 wouldn't show up. And you know, of course, at that 

9 point, the Judge wants the evidence, then to make the 

10 record because we're there and it can be done. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. No. And I --

12 MR. CAMACHO; In this instance, this is 

13 really your call. Judge. I just follow your lead. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, thank you. And I'm 

15 going to talk to you a little bit about what the rules 

16 are and why I think default is acceptable and 

17 preferable. So, you have that reasoning for you in 

18 the future. 

19 MR. CAMACHO: Okay. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you look at 14 CFR, Sec. 

21 13.205. 

22 MR. CAMACHO: I'll pull it right up. 1320 -

23 - 13? 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: .205. 

2 5 MR. CAMACHO: I'm with you. Yes. 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: This talks generally about 

2 the powers of the Administrative Law Judge in these 

3 types of action. And it talks about the Court 

4 requirement essentially to dispose of procedural 

5 motion and requests to give notice of and hold pre6 hearing conferences and hearings, regulate the course 

7 of the hearing and so forth. 

8 MR. CAMACHO: Yes. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It also talks about 

10 specific limitations on the power of the 

11 Administrative Law Judge, and it does not prohibit the 

12 Court from considering and entering default judgment. 

13 And I look at these rules and regulations as being 

14 symbiotic, if you will, with the Rules of Civil 

15 Procedure when they don't conflict with each other. 

16 So, I look then at CR 55, which is the rule 

17 for Default Judgment. And of course, a default should 

18 be entered by the Court whenever a party evinces 

19 through behavior or statement no intent to defend 

2 0 against an action, which seems to be a classic in this 

21 particular case right now with someone who is refusing 

22 to file and answer; refusing to comply with Court 

23 orders; refusing to even show up for court when Mr. 

24 Brown in this case clearly had notice from this Court 

25 itself about this particular conference and his 

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1 requirements to file the Answer. 

2 Then I'd look at 13 CFR, Sec. 13.215. And 

3 that particular section talks about a party 

4 withdrawing the request for a hearing and the Court 

5 being given the directive essentially to dismiss the 

6 proceedings with prejudice. I think there is an 

7 inference when someone fails to participate. There is 

8 a presumptive inference that they just aren't 

9 interested and that they are by their actions engaged 

10 in a withdrawal of participation and a withdrawal of 

11 any preliminary answer they may have filed. 

12 In this particular case, we don't even have 

13 an answer to address. We just have what might be the 

14 Request for Hearing which was filed by Mr. Brown on a 

15 date unknown with your office with no other 

16 information provided, at least to this Court. 

17 MR. CAMACHO; Right. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then look at 14 CFR, 

19 Sec. 13.218. And I'm going to go to that so that I 

20 can talk about it with you. Okay. 

21 There are lots of different sections in this 

22 particular statute, but it deals with motions. And 

23 one of the motions that it talks about is under sub24 section F, Motion to Dismiss. And a party can file a 

25 motion to dismiss and simply specify the grounds for 

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1 dismissal. And in a default judgment that's basically 

2 what you're asking is for a dismissal of the action 

3 before the Court. 

4 There are other sub-sections that talk about 

5 how to do that, what to do it, or when the answer is 

6 required and so forth. There is plenty opportunity 

7 within 14 CFR, Sec. 13, in conjunction with the Rules 

8 of Civil Procedure for counsel, I think, to be making 

9 a motion for default when circumstances are like this. 

10 In this particular case, since you have 

11 already filed a motion to deem allegations admitted, 

12 let's not recreate the wheel or cause you and your 

13 client to engage in duplicative efforts. It would 

14 seem to me then that maybe the easiest thing to do and 

15 you can disagree, but I'm going to suggest it'to you 

16 is that we wait for the time period for Mr. Brown to 

17 respond to this motion upon proof of service. 

18 And if I recall this last page, you have a 

19 legal assistant certify that she placed this in the U. 

20 S. Mail to Mr. Brown, Melbourne, Florida, address of 

21 record, which as I noted before earlier in this 

2 2 conference, appears to be an inadequate address, since 

23 this Court's mailing to that address came back as 

24 undeliverable. 

25 It may be helpful if you could remail your 

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1 motion to deem allegations admitted to Mr. Brown's 

2 last address of record which was the Orlando, Florida 

3 address that I read into the record earlier. 

4 MR. CAMACHO: Yes. I have that. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN; Okay. And file proof of 

6 service in that way. This Court will then be happy to 

7 send out an order to show cause to Mr. Brown at both 

8 the addresses. I have no authority to remove his 

9 requested address of record at this point, but I can 

10 use both of them. 

11 And then at a bifurcated.level, if Mr. Brown 

12 fails to respond to that order to show cause, we can 

13 issue, noted earlier, find resolution on the 

14 allegations themselves. 

15 At that point, I think that you would be in 

16 a very good position to either file a motion for 

17 summary judgment on the sanction or a motion for 

18 default judgment pursuant to the statutory authority 

19 I've already discussed with you and in pursuant to CR 

20 55. 

21 And in CR 55, it specifically states that I 

22 could enter a default judgment if the claim is for a 

23 sum certain, or a sum that can be made certain by 

24 computation. 

25 In all other cases, the party who wants the 

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1 default should apply to the Court for a Default 

2 Judgment. 

3 The question that you have to decide for 

4 yourself and for your client is whether your complaint 

5 is sufficient on its face to justify a default 

6 judgment for $11,000. If it's a sum certain and you 

7 feel comfortable that you can argue that successfully 

8 on appeal, then file a motion for default, assuming I 

9 grant your motion to deem allegations admitted. 

10 If you think it would be better on behalf of 

11 your client to file a motion for. summary judgment and 

12 specify how you reached the $11,000 amount, and if you 

13 do that, I'd do an order to show cause on that. You 

14 can do it that way too. 

15 But I think that we should be exploring 

16 these pre-trial or pre-hearing options before having 

17 US make travel arrangements to go to a city in the 

18 United States and conduct a full-fledged hearing, 

19 particularly when Mr. Brown has at best set his own 

20 threshold, if you will, of participation if we can 

21 even call it that. Does that make sense to you? 

22 MR. CAMACHO: It makes perfect sense. And 

23 as a matter of just practical strategy, that's an 

24 approach that's reasonable. I will issue or serve Mr. 

25 Brown with a copy and a new certificate of service, a 

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1 copy of the Motion at his Orlando address. 

2 What I have in my file are United States 

3 Postal Service domestic return receipts for previously 

4 documents to him at his Orlando address and all of 

5 them bear the signature, "Diane Brown." I suspect 

6 it's either his sister and/or his wife. It could be 

7 his wife. But since he indicated he lived there, 

8 somebody is still there, living there, that has the 

9 same surname.and signing for him and receiving the 

10 mail. So, at that point, I'm working on the 

11 presumption that we've got good service since --

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Does --

13 MR.- CAMACHO: -- he says he still gets mail 

14 there. He indicated to us in the last go around that 

15 he actually still gets the mail there and he goes and 

16 picks it up. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That's correct. And since 

18 he's given us a new mailing address that is not 

19 sufficient for the United States Post Office, I think 

20 we should err on the side of caution and use the 

21 Orlando, Florida, address in conjunction with the 

22 Melbourne, Florida, address. 

2 3 MR. CAMACHO: Right. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: To ensure that we've done 

25 everything we can to give Mr. Brown notice, to give 

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1 him an opportunity to respond. 

2 MR. CAMACHO: Right. Okay. At this point 

3 then, if I understand correctly what you stated, 

4 Judge, because he has a time limit within which he can 

5 respond to a motion and it's set out in the rules --

6 the period of time for a response -- if he fails to 

7 respond at that point, I heard --

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: No. I'm going to interrupt 

9 you. what I'm going to do is issue an Order to Show 

10 Cause. 

11 MR. CAMACHO: Okay. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: To ask Mr. Brown to respond 

13 to this --

14 MR. CAMACHO: Right. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: --t o deem allegations 

16 admitted. And then I'm going to look at the rule and 

17 look up the time --

18 MR. CAMACHO: Timeframe. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: --h e has to respond and 

20 I'11 date it from the time that you serve him at the 

21 Orlando, Florida, address. 

22 MR. CAMACHO: Okay. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The reason that I need you 

24 to serve it to the Orlando, Florida, address is 

25 because mailings this office sent to Mr. Brown, to the 

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1 Melbourne, Florida, address came back as 

2 undeliverable. 

3 MR. CAMACHO; Understood. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, I have knowledge that 

5 that address is not a sufficient address to give him 

6 notice, an opportunity to respond. 

7 MR. CAMACHO: Understood. I will do that 

8 then. I will get this accomplished if not today then 

9 tomorrow, first thing it will go out. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then what you and I, I 

11 think, should do, if you would be so kind, is to look 

12 at your calendar again. I'm going to take a look 

13 myself. I'm trying to decide if it would be helpful 

14 to schedule another conference or whether from an 

15 appellate standpoint it will make any difference at 

16 all in terms of trying to provide all the 

17 opportunities I can for a pro se litigant to respond. 

18 MR. CAMACHO; You haven't asked me for my 

19 opinion. If you want to hear it, I'll give it to you, 

20 based on experience only. Not because I have a 

21 particular or personal preference, even a professional 

22 preference. 

23 But experientially. Judge, I've been with, 

24^ as you can imagine, a number of pro se appellants in 

25 these type situations, and in the 22 years I've been 

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1 in this office, I've never had this kind of a 

2 scheduled hearing with a court reporter on a 

3 repetitive basis. 

4 We have had some where people have not shown 

5 up and that pretty much concludes that where the 

6 Order's been issued and has been received, et cetera, 

7 et cetera. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

9 MR. CAMACHO: You pretty much can do what 

10 you want, but, you know, I think about --

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I understand. 

12 MR. CAMACHO: You've bent over backwards for 

13 this gentleman. He clearly understands the English 

14 language. He participated with us and the transcript 

15 shows his response and his understanding and the 

16 Orders -- looks like in the Order that you sent out to 

17 the Orlando address did not get returned. So, I think 

18 there is a presumption -- although a rebuttable 

19 presumption that he received service there at his 

20 address. And as he indicated to us he does go and 

21 pick up his mail there, because he knows the mail does 

22 get delivered there. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I think that -- I'll 

24 correct. I'm just trying to decide. I mean, he 

25 clearly knew about this particular conference because 

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1 he participated in scheduling it. And it was - -

2 MR. CAMACHO; That's one aspect of it. But 

3 I did also affirmatively remind him that we had this 

4 meeting today and I used the word- "Tuesday." I'm 

5 sure. I was looking at my calendar. I miswrote to 

6 the date, but there's no question that I reminded him. 

7 We had the discussion. I made a note to that effect, 

8 and I reminded him that because I knew we had, you 

9 know, I mean, I just wanted to make sure he was on 

10 board and I got an affirmative response that he knew 

11 and, you know, that sort of thing. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN; Okay. Thank you. What I'm 

13 going to do then is I'm not going to schedule anything 

14 else on our calendars at this point. 

15 If Mr. Brown does contact this office after 

16 this conference, that may change. You'll hear from 

17 Ms. Mays if he contacts and provides some indication 

18 in some way that he has a genuine intent to defend the 

19 action. And if that occurs then we will be sure to 

20 let you know. 

21 MR. CAMACHO: Okay. 

2 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In the interim, however, if 

23 you would be so kind as to provide me a service to Mr. 

24 Brown's Orlando, Florida, address the motion to deem 

25 allegations admitted, I will then be sending out an 

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1 Order to Show Cause as to why that motion should not 

2 be granted. There will be some time limits of that 

3 Order of show cause. 

4 If Mr. Brown does not respond, I'll be 

5 issuing an order, presumptively granting the motion 

6 and at that point you can decide whether you think the 

7 case is ripe for a motion for default on the sanction 

8 or a motion for summary judgment and we can go from 

9 there and proceed in writing. 

10 MR. CAMACHO: Okay, Judge. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Is there anything 

12 else that you need to talk about on behalf of your 

13 client before we conclude today? 

14 MR. CAMACHO: No, Judge. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you very much, 

16 Mr. Camacho, for all of your assistance. It appears 

17 our business is complete. With that, we can go off 

18 the record and I wish all a good day. 

19 MR. CAMACHO: Thank you, Judge. 

2 0 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Bye bye. 

21 MR. CAMACHO: Bye. 

22 (Whereupon, at 3:41 p.m., the telephone 

23 conference in the above-entitled matter was 

24 concluded.) 

25 // 

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 

DOCKET NO.; 

CASE TITLE: 

HEARING DATE: 

LOCATION; 

FDMS NO. FAA-2011-1009 

Quenton T. Brown 

January 10, 2012 

Washington, D.C. 

I hereby certify that the proceedings and 

evidence are contained fully and accurately on the 

tapes and notes reported by me at the hearing in the 

above case before the Department of Transportation. 

Date: January 10, 2012 

XL^££^ Mjd 

Edwin M. Wesley 

Official Reporter 

Heritage Reporting Corporation 

Suite 600 

1220 L Street, N.W. 

Washington, D.C. 20005-4018 

Heritage Reporting Corporation 

(202) 628-4888