1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plan for 7


### Existing Power Plants 8

9

10

11



### 9:0 0 a.m. to 8 : 00 p.m. 12



### Tuesday , July 29 , 201 4 13

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### Room 1153 A 15


### William Jefferson Clinton East Building 16



### 1201 Constitution Avenue Northwest 17


### Washingto n, D.C. 20004 18

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### EPA PANEL 1: 1



### TOM POWERS , Panel 1 Chair; EPA 2



### JOE BRYSON , EPA 3



### GABRIELLE STEVENS , EPA 4

5



### EPA PANEL 2: 6



### WILLIAM NIEBLING , Panel 2 Chair; EPA 7



### BETH CONLIN , EPA 8



### MARGAUERITE MCLAMB , EPA 9

10



### EPA PANEL 3: 11



### WILLIAM NIEBLING, Panel 2 Chair; EPA 12



### BETH C ONLIN, EPA 13



### MARGAUERITE MCLAMB, EPA 14

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2


### HAL QUINN, National Mining Association 17 3



### MARGIE ALT , Environment America 25 4



### PAUL CICIO , Industrial Consumers of 5



### America 30 6



### ANN BURCHARD , Maryland Resident 37 7



### REVEREND DELMA N COATES , Ennon Baptist Church 40 8



### SARAH BUCCI , Environment Virginia 43 9


### CONGRESSWOMAN SHELLEY CAPITO, West Virginia 48 10



### WILLIAM BECKER , National Association of 11


### Clean Air Agencies 54 12



### FRED PALMER , Peabody Energy 59 13



### IVY MAIN , Sierra Club 64 14



### CONGRESSWOMAN LORETTA SANCHEZ , California 68 15



### COLLIN O'MARA, National Wildlife Federation 72 16



### LENA MOFFITT , National Wildlife Federation 80 17



### GEORGIA MURRAY , Appalachian Mount Club 86 18



### HANNAH WIEGARD , Appalachian Voices 91 19


### JEFF FENG, Appalachian Voice s 96 20



### SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY , Oregon 99 21



### GOVENOR JACK MARKELL , Oregon 105 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### SENATOR ED MARKEY, Massachusetts 110 3


### GREG DOTSON, Center for American Progress 115 4



### FRED KRUPP , Environmental American Progress 120 5



### LYNDSAY MOSELEY ALEXANDER, American Lung 6



### Association 124 7



### MATT SCHLAPP , American Conservative Union 129 8



### PAMELA ELLIS , West Virginia Resident 134 9



### ANYA ELLIS , West Virginia Resident 134 10



### ZAPORAH ELLIS , West Virginia Resident 134 11



### AMANDA GARDNER , Sierra Club, WV 141 12



### GRAHAM SMITH

- WHITE, West Virginia Resident 142 13



### JEFFREY HOLMSTEAD , Electric Reliability 14


### Coordinating Council 147 15



### MARY MARTIN , U.S. Chamber of Commerce 152 16



### CONGRESSWOMA N ANNA ESHOO , California 158 17



### S. DEAR SCHRAMM

- SATAYATHUM, Wabash Valley 18



### Power 164 19



### JOHN NOVAK , National Rural Electric 20


### Cooperation Association 171 21



### AMANDA JO DIVITA , West Virginia Resident 176 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2


### ANDRE SAUVAGEOT, Interstate Traveling Co. 179 3



### BRUCE BURTON , International Brotherhood 4



### Of Electrical Workers 183 5



### PAULA JACKSON , American Assoc. of Blacks 6



### In Energy 188 7



### LEAH QUSBA , Alliance for Cli mate Education 198 8



### LESLIE FIELDS, Sierra Club, D.C. 204 9



### CATHERINE TOMASSON , Physicians for Social 10


### Responsibility 211 11



### REBECCA FORBES , Canadian Citizen 215 12



### ROBIN MANN , Rosemont, PA Resident 220 13



### NANCY KUNZ

- MERRY , Moms for Clean Air, N J 225 14



### JACK KUNZ

- MERRY , New Jersey Resident 228 15



### CHRISTOPHER MAYO , Center for Biological 16


### Diversity 229 17



### RACHEL MORALES , Environment America 232 18



### ELIZABETH GLASS

- GELTMAN, City University, 19



### School of Public Health 234 20



### MARY CRUTCHFIELD , Sierra Club 241 21



### RICHARD W. VESEL SR., U.S. Citizen 244 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2


### SHANNON MINOR, V.A. Commonwealth University 251 3



### WILLIAM COZZENS , U.S. Citizen 252 4



### RONALD SCHLESINGER , U.S . Citizen 255 5



### SCOTT BURGER, Sierra Club 257 6



### ROBERT YOUNG , Alliance for Climate Education 259 7



### CORYN WOLK , Clean Air Council 263 8



### DEDE SMITH , Charlottesville, VA Vice Mayor 269 9



### CHRIS DURRER , Sierra Club 274 10



### TIM WHITCOMBE, Henrico, VA Resident 278 11



### ERIN FAGAN , Sierra Club 282 12



### RYAN ARNOLD , U.S. Citizen 284 13



### LAURA KAPLAN , Sierra Club, Delaware 287 14



### CORALIE PRYDE, U.S. Citizen 293 15



### BRENNA PEREZ , Old Dominion University 298 16



### JOHN COMELL , Philadelphia, PA Resid ent 300 17



### TARA LOSOFF, National Wildlife Federation 302 18



### SUSAN MILLER, National Wildlife Federation 305 19



### MARIA STELLA, Chesterfield, VA Resident 311 20



### NAOMI EDELSON, National Wildlife Federation 314 21



### ILLANA NAYLOR, Manassas, VA Resident 320 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### MALCOLM ODELL JR. , U.S. Citizen 326 3



### JEFFREY HYMAN , U.S. Citizen 333 4



### DEAN HUBBERD, Sierra Club 342 5



### CARTER RIES , One More Generation 342 6



### OLIVIA RIES , One Mo re Generation 342 7



### RICHARD MCCORKLE , Delaware Resident 346 8



### LAURA HENDERSON , Delaware Resident 351 9



### MICHAEL ZEHR , Consumer Energy Alliance 353 10



### MARY LAURAN HALL , Washington, D.C. Resident 358 11



### JAYCE HAFNER , Episcopal Church 361 12



### KATHLEEN LAUREL IMLAY , Maryland Resident 364 13



### ADELINE ROLNICK, National Wildlife Federation 366 14



### AVIVA GLASER, National Wildlife Federation 15


### Reading for Dick Penny 369 16



### AMBER HEWITT , National Wildlife Federation 372 17



### BARBARA BRAMBLE , Washington, D.C. Resident 377 18



### PRABH SHARAN SINGH, U.S. Citizen 381 19



### BENTLEY JOHNSON, National Wildlife Federation 20


### Reading for Dick Deborah Hanson 385 21

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### EVA ROBEN, National Wildlife Federation 3


### Reading for Beverly Newman 388 4


### ISHMAEL BUCKNER, Washington, D.C. Citizen 391 5



### JULIA BROOKS, U.S. Citizen 399 6



### MATTHEW GRAVATT, Sierra Club 408 7



### COLLIN REES, Sustain U.S. 413 8



### MOLLY SIMON, National Wildlife Federation 9


### Reading for Burr Tupper, Trout Unlimited 417 10



### SAMANTHA LOCKHART, National Wildlife Fed. 11


### Reading for Richard Mode 421 12



### RAMON PALENCIA

- CALVO, Maryland League of 13



### Conservation V oters 427 14


### JAMES COLIN, U.S. and Japan Citizen 432 15



### STEPHANIE HERON, Sierra Club 435 16


### JOSEPH POWER, Ameren Corporation 441 17


### TOM QUINN, Washington, D.C. Resident 447 18



### LUKAS ROSS, Friends of the Earth 452 19



### MARISSA KNODEL, Friends of the Earth 455 20



### KATE DEANGELIS, Friends of the Earth 459 21



### LUISA AB BOTT

- GALVAO, Friends of the Earth 464 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2


### REBECCA BLOOD, National Hydropower Assoc. 467 3


### EMMA MCGONIGLE, Washington, D.C. Resident 475 4


### MATT CARR, Algae Biomass Organization 480 5

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1


### MR. POWERS: Good morning, 2


### everybody. My watch says 9:00 so I think we'll 3


### get started. My name is Tom Powers. I'm one of 4



### the chairs of this morning's public hearing. 5


### There's also a simultaneous hearing ove r across 6



### the hall in Panel Room B. 7


### Thank you all very much for coming today. 8


### Joining me on the panel this morning, to my right 9


### is Gabrielle Stevens, to my left is Joe Bryson. 10


### We're here today to listen to your comments on 11



### two proposed rules to reduce ca rbon pollution 12



### from power plants. 13



### EPA announced both of these proposed 14


### rules on June 2nd of this year. 15



### Power plants are the largest source of 16


### carbon pollution in the United States, accounting 17


### for roughly a third of all domestic greenhouse 18


### gas emissions. 19



### The first of the two rules is EPA's 20


### proposed Clean Power Plan for Existing Power 21


### Plants. This proposal consists of two main 22

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### parts, state specific goals to lower carbon 1


### pollution from power plants in their state, and 2


### guidelines to help states develop th eir plans for 3


### meeting those goals. 4


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 5


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 6


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 7


### they'll achieve the needed reductions and meet 8


### their goals by the year 2030. 9



### The second rule we will hear testimony 10


### today on is EPA's proposed rule to address carbon 11



### dioxide emissions from modified and reconstructed 12


### power plants. This rule would set emission 13


### limits for two groups of power plants; those that 14


### make physical or operation changes that increase 15


### the plant's maximum achievable hourly rate of 16


### emissions, and those that replace components to 17



### such an extent that the new components exceed 50 18



### percent of the total capital cost of an entirely 19


### new comparable facility. 20


### If you'd like mor e details on either of 21



### these proposed rules there are fact sheets 22

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### available near the registration desk that you 1


### passed when you came in from the outside. 2


### Today's hearing is one of four public 3


### hearings across the country this week on the two 4



### proposed rules. We've had tremendous interest in 5


### each of the hearings and I want to thank you for 6


### taking time out of your day today to join us and 7



### share your commen t s

. 8


### We have a lot of people signed up to 9



### speak today and we want to hear from all of them. 10



### So before we g et started I'll go through just a 11


### few housekeeping items and ground rules that will 12


### help make today's hearing run smoothly. 13


### First, please be sure you've checked in 14


### at the registration desk, even if you're not 15


### planning to speak. And if you signed up to spe ak 16


### online or by phone but haven't told us you're 17


### here, please step out to the registration desk 18



### and let the EPA staff there know that you've 19



### arrived. 20


### Second, if you're a speaker you were 21


### given a room letter when you checked in, either 22

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### Room A or Room B. Th is is Room A. If you're 1


### looking for Room B this would be a good time to 2


### switch. B is right across the hall. 3


### All right. So here's how today's hearing 4


### will work. I'll call up the speakers in pairs. 5


### When your name is called please come to the table 6



### in th e front of the room right here. I will try 7



### to the extent that I have cards, ahead of time to 8


### give people a heads up of who is on deck and will 9


### be coming up shortly so you can be prepared to 10


### know that you're coming up shortly. 11



### When I call on you to speak p lease state 12


### your name, any organization that you're speaking 13


### on behalf of or part of, and spell it for the 14


### court reporter. Your comment will be transcribed 15



### and included in the record of comments on the 16



### proposed rule. 17


### Each speaker will have up to five minu tes 18


### to give comments. We have a light to help you 19


### know how much time you have left to speak. Our 20


### ace time keeper over here to my right is 21


### Gabrielle. When the light turns from green to 22

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### yellow that means you have one minute left. When 1



### it turns red that's the signal to wrap up your 2


### testimony. It will flash red and beep when you 3


### have spoken for five minutes and it's time to 4



### stop. 5


### I would also encourage anybody, if they 6


### come to the conclusion of their testimony before 7


### five minutes, that's okay. We do not g ive any 8


### extra credit for talking more and brevity is 9


### always appreciated. Please feel free to make the 10


### points you want but don't feel bad if your light 11


### hasn't turned red yet when you finish. 12


### When you're finished speaking please wait 13



### at the table until the person next to you has 14


### completed his or her testimony, and then I'll 15


### call up the next pair. 16


### We're here today to listen to you and 17


### that's the primary focus. Either Joe or 18


### Gabrielle or I may possibly ask you questions to 19


### clarify a comment. 20



### If you brought a written copy of your 21


### testimony please give that to the staff at the 22

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### registration desk before you leave. 1



### Because the large number of people who 2


### signed up to speak today, and we did have people 3


### sign up for all of the available slots, so we 4


### expect it to b e very busy throughout the entire 5


### day. And to be sure that we're fair to everyone 6


### we're going to strictly enforce the five minute 7



### limit. 8


### The panel is going to be here anyway, but 9



### we really want to make sure that the people who 10


### are waiting to testify hav e their chance to. So 11


### we appreciate everybody wrapping up at their time 12



### limit. 13


### If you have additional comments you want 14


### to make you can make them in writing. Let me 15



### assure you EPA gives just as much consideration 16


### to comments that we receive in writing as we do 17


### to comments that we receive at the public 18


### hearings like this one. So if you have more that 19


### you'd like to say, please do submit it. 20


### There's still plenty of time to get 21


### written comments in after today. And there will 22

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### be comment cards available at th e registration 1


### desk. We're taking in comments until October 2


### 16th of this year. We'll put any written 3


### comments submitted today in the official docket 4



### for the proposed rule. 5


### Instructions for submitting written 6


### comments in other ways are available at the 7



### ma terials table near the registration desk. 8


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 9


### tonight. We'll take a lunch and dinner break so 10


### everyone can get something to eat, and those are 11



### scheduled from noon to 1:00 and 5:00 to 6:00. 12



### On occasion we

-- in addition we may take 13


### an occasional break throughout the day. We'll 14



### keep you posted as the day goes on. 15


### If you have any questions, please see the 16


### staff at the registration desk, or anybody with 17



### one of these handy

- dandy very expensive name tags 18



### that the EPA staff are wearing. Someone will try 19



### and help you. 20


### Finally, this is kind of stating the 21


### obvious, but I'd urge each of you to be 22

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### respectful to everyone who speaks today. We have 1


### people with a wide variety of views in the 2


### audience. We want to hear from everyone. We ask 3



### that people hold applause. Do not applaud, that 4


### takes time. Ask you to listen quietly. 5


### Thank you again for taking time today to 6


### share your comments with us on the proposed 7



### rules. We're eager to hear from you so let's get 8



### started. 9



### The first names I have are Hal Quinn and 10


### Margie or Margie Alt. 11


### MR. QUINN: So I assume that I'm first, 12



### then, Mr. Powers? 13



### MR. POWERS: You would have the very 14


### distinguished honor of being first, yes. 15



### MR. QUINN: Well, thank you very much and 16



### I thank the panel and EPA for t his opportunity. 17


### My name is Hal Quinn, Q

- U

- I

- N

- N. I am 18



### President and Chief Executive Officer of the 19


### National Mining Association. 20


### The National Mining Association is the 21


### national trade association of our domestic mining 22

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### industry. Our members produce coa l and uranium, 1


### two fuels that comprise 60 percent of our current 2


### electricity supply. They also produce the metals 3


### and minerals essential for every segment of our 4


### society, as well as the manufacturers, the 5


### machinery, equipment, and supplies. 6



### So we are ener gy producers, energy users, 7


### and developers of technology and other innovation 8


### that keeps our industry productive, as well as 9


### our nation competitive globally. 10


### EPA's carbon dioxide emission proposal 11


### for existing power plants is another step in this 12



### administr ation's policies designed to eliminate 13



### low

- cost and reliable electricity and replace it 14


### with more expensive and less reliable sources. 15


### The proposal, in our view, is a stunning 16


### attempt to remake the nation's entire electric 17


### grid. Reducing the diversity o f our nation's 18


### electricity supply and raising its costs will 19


### impair our economic recovery, as well as our 20



### future growth. 21


### In those regions of the country where 22

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### coal serves as the predominant source of 1


### electricity generation, retail electricity rates 2



### are 30 to 50 percent lower than regions with 3


### lower shares of coal generated electricity. 4


### EPA estimates that the proposal will 5


### displace 27 percent of low

- cost coal generation 6


### electricity within the next 10 years. This will 7



### result in the direct loss of at least 20 0,000 8


### high wage jobs in the coal supply chain. 9



### The fact of the matter is that whenever a 10



### coal miner loses his or her job , every American 11


### loses. They lose energy and economic security, 12


### and perhaps their own jobs that depend on low

13



### cost reliable electrici ty. 14


### EPA's proposal is also based on a complex 15


### web of assumptions, many of them implausible 16


### about future energy demand, dramatic shifts in 17


### generation sources, adding more intermittent 18


### sources for generation, and reducing energy use. 19


### Each of these assumption s, what EPA calls 20


### building blocks, rests upon a weak foundation. 21


### Let me just mention a few. 22

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### Increased efficiency of coal based load 1


### power plants. Most of the six percent efficiency 2


### gain EPA assumes comes from the deployment of 3


### recommended operation and maintenance practices. 4


### For all practical purposes these practices are 5


### already routine and taking place since they make 6


### the power plants more economic and therefore more 7


### profitable. 8



### At the same time earlier rules EPA issued 9


### two years ago require extensive retrofits of 10


### existing plants that will make them less 11


### efficient. And the present proposal will force 12



### many of those coal plants to run at reduced and 13


### suboptimal levels which in turn will also make 14



### them less efficient. 15


### Building block no. 2, redispatching f rom 16



### coal and natural gas power plants. EPA assumes 17



### that natural gas power plants can run at 70 18


### percent capacity factors. There's no technical 19


### or economic evidence that these plants can 20


### sustain generation at this high level. EPA's 21


### assumption appears to b e based upon plugging into 22

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### a model and assume carbon price, one well above 1


### those we see in current carbon trading schemes, 2


### rather than any analysis of the technical 3


### capabilities of the plants or gas delivery 4



### system. 5



### Moreover, as EPA acknowledges, there's a t 6



### least a 10 percent gap between the amount of 7


### natural gas needed to sustain this assumption and 8


### the current natural gas pipeline delivery system. 9


### Building block no. 3 increased deployment 10


### of intermittent generation sources. The growth 11



### of renewable genera tion is highly dependent upon 12


### permitting, financing, transmission , access, and 13


### technical challenges posed by integration of 14


### intermittent electricity sources into the grid. 15


### We have not seen any indication how EPA is taking 16



### those factors into account. 17



### Final ly, building block no. 4, energy 18


### efficiency. The assumption of a 1.5 percent 19


### growth in energy efficiency, year over year, 20


### lacks any credible basis in our view. Over time 21


### potential energy savings decline significantly 22

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### absent some major technological break through. 1


### EPA does not identify any breakthrough that would 2


### sustain an annual 1.5 percent growth in 3


### efficiency, and if such breakthroughs are not on 4


### the present horizon they will not be available 5


### during the 10 year period for achieving the 6


### proposed emissio n targets. 7


### As each building block crumbles it places 8


### additional pressure on the remaining ones and 9


### takes EPA's plan from the implausible to the 10


### impossible. EPA insists that it's providing 11


### states with flexibility to meet the targets, 12



### however the proposal places them into an energy 13


### straight jacket at the outset with each 14


### adjustment more painful economically and more 15


### risky for system reliability. 16


### The real flexibility states need is the 17


### flexibility to maintain a diverse, low

- cost, and 18


### reliable generation mix for their citizens, 19


### economic, and energy security. The value of 20


### generation diversity to stability in power 21


### supplies and prices is missing in action in this 22

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### proposal. 1


### This past winter provided a clear warning 2


### that our bulk power system is close to the ed ge 3


### of breaking, and additional power plant 4


### retirements induced by EPA rules would push it 5


### over the edge. Businesses and families in many 6


### parts of the country paid unprecedented high 7


### prices for electricity and saw their home heating 8


### bills spike as natural gas prices climbed with 9


### competing demand among power plants, factories, 10



### and households. 11


### Coal based power plants supplied 92 12


### percent of the incremental demand for power this 13


### winter. What will happen if we experience 14


### another cold winter this year or the yea r after 15



### when many of those plants are closed due to EPA's 16



### earlier rules? 17


### An analysis performed by the Energy 18


### Ventures Analysis shows that wholesale power 19


### prices will rise 27 to 55 percent across 20


### different regions of the country. No state is 21



### spared. Bus inesses and households would pay $35 22

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### billion more for natural gas. 1



### These are the consequences of poorly 2


### designed policies, and the reason why EPA's 3


### assessment of the economic impacts of its rules 4


### inspires little confidence. After all EPA 5


### projected that the Agency's recent rules would 6


### cause less than 5,000 megawatts of power capacity 7


### to close. As it turns out, it will likely be 10 8



### to 12 times more. And this is all before the 9


### current proposal for carbon dioxide. 10


### EPA's presentations about the proposal 11



### hav e generated many thoughtful questions, but in 12


### our view few, if any, definitive answers about 13


### how this rule can actually work. However, 14


### there's one inescapable fact; the cost and risks 15



### are real; the benefits are not. 16


### EPA expects far too much when it asks 17



### g overnors to put their residents' economic and 18


### energy security at great risk, surrender control 19


### of their electricity and energy supplies and 20



### infrastructure, and forfeit their state's full 21


### potential for economic growth. Thank you. 22

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### MR. POWERS: Thank you ver y much. Do you 1


### have a written copy of your statement? 2



### MR. QUINN: I do

. 3



### MR. POWERS: Okay. Great. Next speaker 4


### is Margie Alt. And on deck are Paul Cicio, if 5


### I'm saying that right. And Ann Burchard. 6



### MS. ALT: Great. Thank you. Good 7


### morning. I'm gla d to be here and appreciate your 8


### having this session as well as the sessions 9



### around the country. 10



### I'm the Executive Director of Environment 11



### America. We're a federation of 29 state

- level 12


### advocacy groups with over 1.1 million members and 13



### supporters all acros s the country. 14


### Margie Alt, A

- L

- T. 15


### We have been talking to folks about this 16


### issue and doing the research and really trying to 17


### understand the impacts of climate change on our 18


### families and on the planet. And toward that end 19


### have been distributing over a mi llion pieces of 20


### literature to folks across the country, helping 21



### to connect the dots between extreme weather and 22

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### carbon pollution, and the rule that EPA is 1


### putting out. So I sit here today in strong 2



### support of the Clean Power Plan. 3


### Recently climate change has become 4



### personal for me. Just a couple of weeks ago I 5


### got back from a trip I took to Alaska. And what 6


### seemed to me like a romantic rain storm dropping 7


### down on our cabin turned into a 20 or 30 year 8


### flood that hadn't been seen in years past. The 9



### little creek flooded. The road was impassable 10


### because of a mud slide and we ended up having to 11


### be evacuated by the National Park Service, which 12


### did a great job by the way. So good work to your 13



### colleagues at DOI. 14


### And it's not just that Denali National 15



### Park is b eing flooded. The glaciers in Glacier 16


### Bay National Park are now 95 percent in 17


### recession, and it's not just in Alaska, it's here 18



### in the lower 48 as well, whether it's the wild 19


### fires happening right now as we speak in 20


### Washington and Oregon, or just two year s ago on 21


### the East Coast, the impacts of Hurricane Sandy, 22

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### which also affected me and my family. I grew up 1


### in Long Beach, New York, which is on the south 2



### shore of Long Island. The boardwalk we used to 3


### go to, totally devastated by the hurricane, has 4



### since b een rebuilt. 5


### And my brother, who still lives just a 6


### few miles away, has just finished redoing his 7


### house from the destruction of the storm, and just 8


### buying their second car, also ruined in Hurricane 9



### Sandy. 10


### So from my perspective and that of our 11



### members, global warming is no longer a problem of 12


### the distant future or of people far away. It's 13


### here, it's now, it's happening to me. It's 14


### happening to all Americans. 15


### And the headlines every day remind us 16


### that we need to do something and do it now. 17



### Thus, I'm s o appreciative of the work that the 18


### EPA is doing to cap carbon pollution from power 19



### plants. 20



### It's no secret that power plants are the 21


### single largest source of global warming 22

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### pollution, responsible for more than 40 percent 1


### of the nation's production of carbo n pollution. 2


### Our research shows that the dirtiest 50 plants in 3


### the country actually emit more carbon than all 4



### but six countries in the world. 5



### States around the country are already 6


### moving to take action to clean up or shut down 7


### the dirtiest plants. We we re excited to support 8


### and work to implement California's Global Warming 9


### Solutions Act, which is projected to save 780 10


### lives by 2020. 11


### And since the regional greenhouse gas 12


### initiative went into effect, global warming 13


### pollution from power plants on the East Coast has 14


### fallen by 30 percent, and new tighter limits have 15


### us on track to cut carbon pollution even further 16


### in the region. 17


### At the same time the program has added $2 18


### billion to the regional economy and locked in 19


### more than $1 billion in savings on energy b ills 20



### for East Coast consumers. 21


### So it's time to stop listening to the 22

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### naysayers, and instead to start learning lessons 1



### from state success stories. Sates have reduced 2


### global warming pollution and the lights have 3


### stayed on. And more and more of those ligh ts are 4



### powered by clean, renewable energy. 5



### As we generate more power each watt of 6


### energy is going farther, states are also becoming 7



### more and more efficient. We have renewable 8


### standards. We have a million solar roofs coming 9


### on line in California, strong solar policies in 10



### Minnesota and Massachusetts and more. And that's 11


### why Environment America strongly supports Clean 12


### Power Plan as the single largest step the U.S. 13


### has taken to tackle global warming. But it is 14



### only a step. We have come a long way but our 15



### work is far from done if we're to stave off the 16


### worst impacts of global warming. To lead the 17


### world America needs to cut global warming 18


### pollution 80 percent by 2050, at minimum meeting 19


### the President's commitment of 17 percent 20


### reductions by 2020. 21



### The good news is we're on track. We can 22

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### make a difference. We have made a difference. 1


### And I hope we will continue to make a difference 2



### through the Clean Power Plan. We've got a lot of 3


### work yet to do, but we've seen the vision and 4


### leadership from the states and the Obama 5


### Administration, combined with strong public 6


### support. We believe we'll get there. Thank you 7



### so much. 8



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. The 9


### next panelists are Paul Cicio, if I'm saying that 10



### -- is that right? 11


### MR. CICIO: That's right. 12



### MR. POWER S: Okay. Good. And Ann 13



### Burchard. 14


### This is a bit of a challenge, you guys, 15


### with a single mic. So if you kind of pull it a 16


### little closer to you everybody will be able to 17



### hear you better. 18


### MR. CICIO: Good morning. My name is 19



### Paul Cicio, C

- I

- C

- I

- O, and I a m the President of 20


### the Industrial Energy Consumers of America, a 21



### trade association with annual sales

-- the 22

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### companies have $1 trillion in annual sales and 1


### more than 1.4 million employees. 2


### The companies that I represent are energy 3


### intensive, trade exposed. They compete with 4


### companies from around the world whose 5


### competitiveness is largely dependent upon the 6


### price of natural gas and electricity. 7


### For these companies relatively small 8


### increases in the cost of energy can have 9


### relatively significant impacts on th eir 10


### competitiveness, their ability to create jobs and 11



### exports. 12


### Energy intensive industries consume over 13


### 81 percent of the energy of the entire 14


### manufacturing sector. Examples include 15


### chemicals, plastics, nitrogen fertilizer, iron, 16


### steel, aluminum, glass products, paper, food 17


### processing, and cement. These products are the 18


### raw materials necessary to produce everything in 19


### the U.S. that all consumers use in daily life. 20


### IECA companies support responsible cost 21


### effective action to address climate change. In 22

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### fa ct the industrial sector is the only sector of 1


### the entire U.S. economy whose emissions are less 2


### than they were in 1973. 3


### However, unilateral climate action by the 4


### U.S. that results in increased energy costs can 5


### disadvantage our manufacturers, damage 6


### competi tiveness , and result in job losses. The 7


### U.S. cannot go it alone, and expect that our 8


### actions will have meaningful climate impact in a 9


### world economy that is using more coal and more 10


### fossil fuels every day. 11



### For example, the EPA says that the 12



### proposed rule would reduce 730 million metric 13


### tons of carbon by 2030. China increased its 14


### emissions nearly that amount in one year, from 15


### 2010 to 2011, China's Co2 emissions rose by 705 16


### million tons. We are competing with those 17


### Chinese companies. 18



### The key message that we want to deliver 19


### is that we are very worried that the rule would 20


### substantially increase the electricity and 21


### natural gas costs, and create liability problems, 22

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### putting the manufacture sector at risk, good 1


### paying jobs with relatively small global climate 2



### im pact. 3


### The rule would substantially reduce the 4


### use of coal fired generation. Coal fired 5


### generation is low cost, and it's reliable. 6



### Importantly coal competes with gas, natural gas, 7


### on a BTU basis that helps keep electricity costs 8



### low. 9



### The rule would inc rease dependency on 10


### natural gas for power generation. Natural gas is 11


### delivered in real time, not stockpiled like coal. 12



### And the winter of 2014 demonstrated how 13


### overreliance on natural gas generation led to 14


### reliability issues on gas transportation and 15



### elec tricity deliverability, and with spiking 16


### prices for both natural gas and electricity. 17



### The rule would also increase reliance on 18



### renewable energy. Renewable energy can be very 19


### expensive and is also unreliable. Our 20


### manufacturing facilities run 24 hours a da y, 21


### seven days a week. Reliability is critical. 22

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### Grid reliability problems lead to 1


### electricity curtailments of manufacturing 2



### facilities. These curtailments can cost small 3



### manufacturers tens of thousands of dollars a day 4


### and large manufacturing companies tens of 5


### millions of dollars a day. 6


### This is especially troublesome during 7


### peak demand periods. Electrical outage can 8


### damage, if not destroy the equipment that we use 9


### to manufacturers and the products itself. And 10


### most importantly reliability is an import ant 11


### safety issue for our employees. 12



### Importantly all regulatory and energy 13


### costs of this rule will be passed on to us, the 14


### consumer. We are the ones that are going to pay 15



### for this rule. 16


### A great concern is that the greenhouse 17


### gas rule is only one of severa l recent EPA rules 18


### that impose costs, and these costs are additive 19


### and are increasing our electricity prices. 20


### According to the EPA the greenhouse gas 21


### rule will increase industrial electricity prices 22

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### by $2.2 billion each year, a total of $37 billion 1



### by 2030 . When added to the AEO 2014 electricity 2


### forecast for industrial prices, prices will rise 3



### 154 percent by 2030. 4



### This means that from 2013 to 2030 a 17 5


### year period, we can expect an average increase in 6


### electricity prices of 9.1 percent per year. And 7



### that 's in contrast to the last 13 year period 8


### where we only saw prices increase 2.8 percent per 9



### year. 10


### On natural gas the EPA estimate is that 11


### prices will increase up to 12 percent. And when 12


### added to the EIA forecast the price of natural 13


### gas is forecasted to r ise 164 percent by 2030. 14


### Significant. Very signature. 15


### As electricity and natural gas prices 16


### rise, manufacturers lose their ability to compete 17



### and will be forced to move off shore. And ladies 18


### and gentlemen, that is what happened from 2000 to 19



### 2008, becaus e of high natural gas prices. We 20



### shut down over 40,000 manufacturing facilities, 21


### we lost 3 million manufacturing jobs, and when 22

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### this happens both good paying jobs and the 1


### greenhouse gas emissions move off shore. And 2


### this is referred to as carbon leakage. 3


### Forcing energy intensive manufacturing 4


### companies off shore because of higher energy 5


### costs accomplishes nothing environmentally, and 6


### damages the domestic economy and employment. For 7


### this reason energy intensive industries, at 8



### minimum, would need carbon a llowances and border 9


### adjustments to prevent greenhouse gas leakage. 10


### We urge the EPA to acknowledge these realities, 11


### just as the Waxman Markey Bill did, just as the 12



### EU ETS does, and the State of California. 13


### It is for this reason that we request 14



### that the EP A perform a carbon leakage analysis to 15


### assess the carbon impacts on our industries. Any 16



### carbon leakage costs could be subtracted from the 17



### EPA benefit calculations. 18



### Because the proposed rule regulates 19


### greenhouse gas emissions outside the fence, it 20



### sets an impossible precedent for future 21


### regulation of greenhouse gases for the 22

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### manufacturing sector. The rule's precedent would 1


### require industrials to reduce greenhouse gas 2



### amounts that are above what we could reduce 3


### through manufacturing technology, equipment, a nd 4


### practices, and be required to accept 5


### responsibility to achieve higher greenhouse gas 6


### reductions by reducing emissions outside our 7



### fence line. 8



### Our customers are all over the world, and 9


### not just in the U.S., and this regulation imposes 10



### costs that our glob al competitors would not have. 11


### Thank you for your consideration. 12



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much for your 13


### testimony. Our next speaker is

-- 14


### MS. BURCHARD: Good morning. 15



### MR. POWERS:

-- Ann. Yes. And could I

- 16



### - excuse me one

-- on deck is Reverend Coat es and 17



### also Sarah Bucci. 18


### MS. BURCHARD: Good morning. My name is 19



### Ann Burchard, B as in Bravo, U

- R

- C

- H

- A

- R, D as in 20



### delta. I am a Sierra Club member and concerned 21



### citizen from Annapolis , Maryland. 22

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### I thank you for the opportunity to speak 1



### in favor of the Clean Power Plan and the Carbon 2



### Rule. 3


### My city, Annapolis , has been around for 4


### over 300 years. But like most coastal cities is 5


### in danger from rising sea levels due to climate 6



### change. 7



### Just yesterday, July 28th

-- is that 8



### feedback? 9


### (High pitched squea l .) 10



### MS. BURCHARD: We okay? 11



### MR. POWERS: yes. 12


### MS. BURCHARD: Okay. Is it my voice? 13



### MR. POWERS: No, I don't think so. 14



### MS. BURCHARD: Okay. It's not me. Shall 15


### I continue? Okay. 16



### Just yesterday, July 28th, NOAA posted on 17


### its website a summary of its tech nical report 18



### entitled, Sea Level Rise and Nuisance Flood 19


### Frequency Around the United States. 20


### By the way, nuisance flooding often 21



### results in flooded basements, road closures, and 22

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### compromised infrastructure. 1


### There in the report at the top of the 2



### list was A nnapolis , Maryland, with an increase in 3


### flood days of 925 percent over a 50 year period. 4



### From 1957 to 1963 the average number of 5


### flood days in a year was 3.8. From 2007 to 2013 6


### the number of flood days was 39.3. That is 7


### approximately one out of nine da ys. In D.C. the 8


### number of flood days increased from 6.3 to 29.7 9



### days a year, or 373 percent. 10


### Coastal flood warning is becoming a too 11



### frequent part of our weather forecast. We no 12


### longer need storms or hurricanes to produce 13


### flooding. It is becoming an eve ryday occurrence

. 14


### By spending millions of dollars we can 15



### attempt to protect our most valuable real estate 16


### through engineering, but water will seek its 17


### level and land will be lost. Many farmers, farms 18



### and towns on our beloved eastern shore of the 19



### Chesapeak e Bay would be under water. 20


### The cost of sea level rise mitigation and 21


### the value of lost inundated proposed should be 22

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### considered when calculating the cost benefit 1


### ratio of curbing our carbon emissions. Who is 2


### going to pay for the farms lost, for the houses 3



### that are now under water? 4


### I am grateful that the EPA is taking 5


### action to reduce carbon output through its Clean 6



### Power Plan. It is reasonable and achievable. 7



### Many states are almost there. I ask that the EPA 8


### strengthen the proposed standards and emphasiz e 9


### energy efficiency and use of renewable sources

. 10



### Thank you. 11



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. 12



### Reverend Coates, and Sarah Bucci. 13


### Good morning. 14


### REVEREND COATES: Good morning, and thank 15


### you for the opportunity to share. My name is 16



### Delman Coates and I s enior pastor of Mount Ennon 17


### Baptist Church in Clinton Maryland. 18


### Because I am a pastor some might assume 19


### that I have nothing to add to the conversation 20


### about climate change and environmental justice. 21


### However, I have made it a point to stress to my 22

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### congrega nts my belief that people of faith have a 1


### moral obligation to be good stewards of the 2



### Earth, to care for the environment, and to 3


### protect future generations by addressing the 4


### effects of climate change and carbon pollution. 5


### The issue of environmental justice is 6


### particularly important to me because as pastor of 7


### a predominantly African/American congregation I 8


### am sensitive to the fact that people of color and 9


### low income communities suffer disproportionately 10


### from environmentally related health issues, 11


### including a sthma, bronchitis, and other 12


### respiratory ailments. 13


### Countless university studies conclude 14


### that climate change and carbon pollution severely 15


### undermine the health of minority communities. 16



### Issues of class compound these disparities in 17



### health as lower income f amilies who are already 18


### predisposed to higher health risks are also often 19


### living the closest to the sources of carbon 20


### pollution which is threatening the health of 21


### citizens all across the country. 22

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### This is not some problem out there for 1



### another generation

. It affects us right here. 2


### Power plants and other major industrial 3



### facilities in the area emitted more than 450,000 4


### metric tons of carbon pollution in 2011. That's 5


### equal to the yearly pollution from more than 6



### 95,000 cars. 7



### These industrial facilities are harming 8



### our economy and our health. There are members of 9


### my congregation who suffer from environmentally 10


### induced illnesses. They are elderly parishioners 11



### burdened by declining health, battling chronic 12


### illnesses such as lung disease, cardiovascular 13



### disea se, and high blood pressure, which are only 14


### made worse by carbon pollution and climate 15


### change. They are widows and widowers who have 16


### lost loved ones due to industrially produced 17


### respiratory diseases. 18


### Sadly, many of these individuals are also 19



### young peopl e, children whose quality of life has 20


### been diminished by industrially produced air 21



### pollutants. 22

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### In scripture we are given a clear mandate 1


### to care for widows, orphans, the elderly, and 2


### those in distressed. In the gospels, Jesus bids 3


### his followers to give attention to the needs of 4


### the poor. Especially children. 5


### For this reason I have pledged my support 6


### to the Clean Power Plan because it attempts to 7


### correct for the abuses of former generations so 8


### that people, but especially our children, can 9


### live and grow in a cleaner, safer, and healthier 10



### world than the one we are on track to leave them. 11



### We need the Clean Power Plan. It is sensible 12


### federal environmental policy that provides states 13


### the flexibility they need to develop customized 14


### plans that will keep our ene rgy affordable and 15



### reliable while ensuring our children have clean 16


### air to breathe. Thank you. 17



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Sarah. 18


### MS. BUCCI: Great. My name is Sarah 19


### Bucci, so you had the pronunciation right. And 20



### that's B

- U

- C

- C

- I. 21


### And I am the Campaign Dir ector with 22

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### Environment Virginia, and I'm here today from 1


### Richmond, Virginia speaking on behalf of myself 2



### and the 25,000 members and supporters across the 3



### Commonwealth that we represent. 4


### In Virginia the consequences of global 5


### warming are clear and present. The recent 6


### National Climate Assessment pointed to the 7


### impacts that we are already feeling from more 8


### extreme and severe storms, agricultural troubles, 9


### to rising seas and storm surges that put our 10



### coastal communities at risk. 11


### Hampton Roads is the second mo st 12


### vulnerable region to sea level rise in the entire 13


### country. And that's something that city and 14


### regional planners in the area, the U.S. military 15


### and local residents can tell you. 16


### And increased temperatures also mean more 17


### unhealthy air days that risk mo re asthma attacks 18


### and respiratory disease. And as a resident of 19



### Richmond and an area that has been named the 20


### Asthma Capitol of the Country for many years, 21


### that's very important to me. 22

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### Scientists are clear that unless we act 1


### now to reduce the pollution tha t's fueling global 2


### warming, most importantly carbon dioxide, things 3


### will only get worse for our children, and you 4



### won't be able to turn back. We support the Clean 5



### Power Plan. 6



### We believe the Clean Power Plan is an 7


### important step and support the finalizatio n of 8


### the strongest possible plan to cut carbon 9


### pollution. 10


### Power plants are the largest single 11


### source of U.S. carbon pollution, and while we 12


### must move quickly to limit carbon from all 13



### sectors and sources, power plants are our best 14


### opportunity in the near te rm to make dramatic 15



### reductions in carbon. 16


### Virginia's power plants contribute to 17


### 34.4 percent of our state's carbon pollution, and 18


### this plan would clean up our power plants by 31 19



### percent. 20


### Environment Virginia applauds the EPA for 21


### resounding to the urgent ne ed to protect public 22

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### health and our children's future by reigning in 1


### unlimited carbon pollution. And we're not alone. 2


### Over 150,000 public comments have been submitted 3


### by Virginians in support of limiting carbon 4


### pollution to date. And over 60 local and s tate 5



### elected officials, over 100 small business owners 6



### have also endorsed the President's Climate Action 7



### Plan and the EPA's proposal. 8


### Public opinion polling shows that a 9


### majority of Virginians support the EPA taking 10


### action on climate and to limit carbon po llution 11


### from power plants. So the people are behind you. 12


### And given the scope of the problem and 13



### the urgent need to act, we can do even better by 14


### harnessing the power of clean energy. 15


### Virginia and the utilities operating in 16



### our state are far behind our nei ghboring states 17


### in developing a clean energy industry. Our 18


### neighbors to the south, North Carolina, has 19


### installed 335 megawatts of solar power, while 20


### Virginia has only about 15 to 18 megawatts of 21


### solar that have been installed by homeowners and 22

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### colleges, t he military, and others. 1


### But we have huge potential to meet and 2


### exceed the goals laid out for Virginia in the 3



### proposed Clean Power Plan through energy 4


### efficiency and the deployment of clean energy 5


### resources like solar power and wind power. 6



### If our state's o ffshore wind energy area 7



### were to be fully developed we could power over 8


### 700,000 homes just from the wind blowing off the 9


### coast of Virginia Beach. 10


### So we can build a future where eventually 11


### all our energy comes from the wind that blows off 12



### our coast, from t he sun that shines on our roof 13


### tops every single day, and making our homes and 14


### buildings so efficient that we, with a solar 15


### panel on top can power the entire building and 16



### have more energy produced than we actually need 17



### to use. 18


### That's a future that Virgin ians deserve, 19



### that Americans deserve, and that is a future that 20



### the Clean Power Plan helps us make a step toward. 21


### Thank you very much for allowing us here 22

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### to speak today. 1



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much for your 2


### testimony. 3



### The next speakers are Congressw oman 4


### Capito and William Becker. And then upon deck 5


### behind them are Fred Palmer and Ivy Main. 6


### MS. CAPITO: Good morning. Thank you. I 7



### am Shelley Moore

- Capito, I represent the State of 8


### West Virginia in the House of Representatives. 9


### Thanks for having me h ere today and appreciate 10


### your good hard work. I know you're going to have 11



### a long couple days. 12



### I'm here to express my state's strong 13


### opposition to the proposed greenhouse gas rule 14


### for existing power plants. With this 15



### unprecedented rule the EPA has gone fa r beyond 16


### requiring existing coal plants operate as 17


### efficiently as possible. Instead the very 18


### framework for this rule is built around shifting 19



### the country away from coal. 20



### The Federal Government has no business 21


### picking winners and losers in the energy eco nomy, 22

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### but that's exactly what this EPA rule does. 1


### I'd like to share with you what your rule 2



### would do to my state. If you had come to West 3


### Virginia you would have seen and heard this for 4


### yourself. The EPA has held 11 public listening 5



### sessions on this ru le, but not one of those 6


### listening sessions has been in the 10 states that 7


### most heavily rely on coal for electrical 8


### generation, West Virginia being one of them. 9


### If you had come to West Virginia you 10


### would have heard from coal mining companies and 11



### coal miner s who depend on this work to feed their 12


### families. Like Roger Horton of Logan County, a 13



### retired coal miner, UMWA member. When he 14


### testified before the House Energy and Commerce 15


### Committee he said EPA's policies are condemning 16


### our mining families to lives of poverty and 17


### despair. 18


### But if you had heard from people who 19


### don't work in the mines but directly rely on the 20


### industry and its electricity to keep their 21


### companies afloat you might have heard from 22

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### Christian March of Quality Machine, a fabrication 1



### and machin e manufacturer in Bridgeport, West 2


### Virginia. His business used to do a lot of work 3



### in the coal mining business, but they've seen a 4


### significant drop. 5


### You might have heard from businesses like 6



### Felman Production in Letart, and Constellium 7



### World Products in R avens Wood, both companies 8


### that employ hundreds of West Virginia workers in 9


### an energy intensive manufacturing scenario. 10


### But by not coming to West Virginia, to 11


### Kentucky, to the coal producing and coal 12


### consuming states you send a message to that part 13



### of th e country, our part of the country, that our 14


### views and our experiences just don't matter. To 15



### have the Federal Government refuse to even listen 16


### to this segment of American people is frustrating 17


### and demoralizing for us. 18


### My state of West Virginia has already 19


### lost 5,000 coal mining jobs between 2012, 2014. 20


### Many more jobs are at risk because of this Agency 21


### and the regulatory efforts that are going far 22

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### beyond what Congress intended. 1


### My state of West Virginia relies 95 2


### percent of its electricities generated by coal. 3


### And we will be one of the biggest losers under 4


### this proposed rule. 5


### A recent report from the Institute of 6


### Energy Resource found that our electricity prices 7


### in West Virginia could increase by more than 50 8


### percent by 2020. This rule would cause eve n more 9


### coal capacity to be taken off line, which will 10


### increase energy costs for consumers across the 11


### country. We saw this with the European Union's 12


### carbon regulations, which increased residential 13


### electricity prices by 55 percent between 2005 and 14



### 2013. 15



### T he proposed rule would be bad for the 16


### American economy. It will be catastrophic for 17


### working families in West Virginia. U.S. 18



### households pay half as much for electricity than 19


### households in the European Union and a third as 20


### much of those in Germany. 21



### Becau se of the energy intensive nature of 22

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### manufacturing, low cost American jobs help

-- low 1


### cost American energy help keep jobs in the U.S.; 2


### jobs our economy desperately needs. 3


### Coal miners and power plant workers 4


### aren't the only workers who lose under this 5



### prop osed rule. Forfeiting our energy advantage 6


### will send more American manufacturing jobs 7



### overseas and hurt our economy. 8



### As our governor, the Governor of West 9


### Virginia has said, not one single coal plant

-- 10


### not one single coal plant in West Virginia meets 11



### the average standard of the 1620 pounds of carbon 12


### dioxide per megawatt hour that would be imposed 13



### on the state. 14


### While I recognize that that means that 15


### not every coal plant would close, but it would 16


### definitely mean the closure of a number of coal 17



### units would b e mandatory. 18


### Our economy benefits from a diverse 19


### energy mix and an all of the above energy 20


### strategy. During January and

-- I think it's 21


### important to note, in January and February of 22

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### this year, 92 percent of the increased demand for 1


### energy nationally was met by coal. American 2


### Electric Power, which operates in West Virginia 3


### and across the Midwest was operating at 89 4


### percent of the coal capacity that next year will 5


### be shut down due to the other EPA regulations. 6


### In the House of Representatives I have 7



### worked tirelessly to try to help the people of 8


### West Virginia and to help the EPA and this 9



### Administration understand what these regulations 10



### do to our state. I've continued to invite the 11


### EPA to come to West Virginia and hear all sides 12



### of the issues. 13



### I've offere d bipartisan resolutions, 14


### calling for the EPA to hold sessions in the coal 15


### reliance states. I'm here today for the five 16


### minutes to tell you the consequences of this 17


### agency's decision on the people that I represent. 18


### The rule threatens West Virginia's 19



### econo mic survival. I will continue to lead 20


### efforts in congress to help stop this rule and 21


### also I promise you that my state and its people 22

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### will also fight this rule every day. 1


### Thank you all so much for having me. 2



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. I would note, I 3



### know Pe nnsylvania is not West Virginia, but we do 4


### have a session in Pittsburg, two days of sessions 5



### later this week. 6



### Bill Becker

. 7


### MR. BECKER: Good morning. My name is 8



### Bill Becker. I am Executive Director of the 9


### National Association of Clean Air Agencies, or 10



### NA CAA. Our members include 42 state and 116 11


### local air pollution control agencies across the 12


### country that partner with EPA to implement and 13



### enforce the Clean Air Act. 14



### Section 111D of the Clean Air Act bests 15


### our member agencies with the ultimate 16


### responsibilit y, to draft, sign, and submit the 17



### state plans under EPA's Clean Power Plan proposed 18



### rule. Therefore I'm pleased to have the 19


### opportunity to testify this morning and to 20


### provide some initial reactions to EPA's proposal. 21


### The views expressed in this statement do 22

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### not reflect the views of all NACAA member 1


### agencies. 2


### More than one year ago EPA began its 3



### efforts to develop the rule and conducted some 4



### early outreach to NACAA and other stakeholders. 5


### In response our association developed a set of 6


### Section 111D princi ples and submitted them to the 7


### Agency in August of 2013. And I have a copy of 8


### my principles attached to our testimony. 9


### NACAA recognizes the extensive level of 10


### EPA staff effort that went into developing the 11


### proposed Clean Power Plan. Those its proposal 12



### doe s not offer everything for everyone, we 13


### appreciate that EPA has included much of what 14


### NACAA recommended in its Section 111D principles. 15


### And I will give you some general examples by 16


### highlighting features of the proposal that are 17


### consistent with our princip les. 18


### In terms of process EPA deserves credit 19


### for its outreach effort, which was truly 20


### unprecedented in duration and scope. The Agency 21


### sought input from many groups, especially state 22

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### and local air pollution control agencies. It was 1


### inclusive of key inte rests and expertise from 2


### other stakeholders such as state energy officials 3


### and utility commissioners, and those 4


### conversations remain ongoing. 5


### Further, EPA not only engaged in 6


### discussion, it listened very carefully to what 7


### was said. In our principles NACAA asked for 8



### emission limits that reflect state circumstances; 9


### different state circumstances. EPA's proposal 10


### includes state specific goals based on state and 11


### regional factors. 12


### We asked for flexibility. The proposal 13


### addresses flexibility in several ways. It 14


### incorporates four building blocks for setting the 15


### best systems of emission reduction, including 16


### renewable energy and energy efficiency. It 17


### includes compliance flexibility beyond the four 18


### building blocks to credit strategies like fuel 19


### switching and new natural gas combined cycle 20


### capacity. And the proposal gives states wide 21


### latitude to identify the overall compliance 22

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### strategies in response to their local 1



### circumstances. 2



### We asked for more time for states to 3



### develop plans and for effected sources to meet 4



### t heir obligations. The proposal offers a one 5


### year extension for all states and an additional 6


### year for states that elect to develop a multi

7



### state approach. 8



### Affected power plants also have a decade 9


### to comply with the new standard. In sum, the 10



### proposed rul e reflects many of the issues NACAA 11


### highlighted almost one year before the proposal 12



### was released. Undoubtedly the same state and 13


### local dialog that informed EPA's Clean Power Plan 14


### proposal must also inform its final rule. 15



### NACAA's member are still conside ring the 16



### proposal's numerous and complex facets, but much 17


### of their analysis so far has focused on the 18


### calculation of individual state goals. Some 19



### states have expressed concerns that due to the 20


### stringency of the proposed targets their 21


### compliance flexibilit y is significantly limited. 22

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### Further, while we appreciate the extra 1


### time EPA is providing to develop state plans, 2


### we're hearing from some states that they may 3


### still need additional time given their state's 4


### legislatures, schedules, and rulemaking 5



### timeframes

. 6


### And finally many states are concerned 7



### that the proposal does not adequately reward 8


### states that took early action. We strongly 9


### encourage EPA to work with NACAA and the 10



### individual states to address each of these issues 11



### in the final rule. 12


### Though not strict ly part of the proposal, 13


### the signature resources that state and local 14


### agencies will need to make the Clean Power Plan a 15


### success must be addressed. The planning and 16


### analysis needed to meet EPA's targets are 17


### substantial and require additional support. 18



### The President recognized this challenge 19


### in his proposed fiscal 2015 budget when he asked 20


### for a nearly $20 million increase to support 21


### Section 111D State Plan Development. 22

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### NACAA reiterates its strong support for 1


### the additional funding, but cautions against its 2


### funding coming at the expense of funding for 3


### state and local air agencies' core programs. 4


### Further, we urge EPA to build on its 5


### strong foundation of preproposal dialog to 6


### develop resources to facilitate states' abilities 7


### to conduct their Section 111D plan ning. 8



### So in conclusion, as we move further into 9


### the comment period, we'll continue to examine the 10


### proposed rule and suggest changes to improve it. 11


### Once again, thank you for the opportunity 12


### to testify. 13



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much for 14


### your testim ony. 15



### The next speakers are Fred Palmer and Ivy 16


### Main, and on deck after them are Congresswoman 17



### Sanchez and Collin O'Mara. 18


### MR. PALMER: Greetings. 19


### MR. POWERS: Good morning. 20


### MR. PALMER: Good morning. My name is 21



### Fred Palmer, P

- A

- L

- M

- E

- R. I am Senior Vice 22

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### P resident for Government Relations at Peabody 1



### Energy. 2


### Using coal for electricity enables more 3


### people to live longer and live better, and it 4


### drives the lowest U.S. electricity costs for any 5


### major fuel. 6


### Peabody profoundly disagrees with EPA's 7



### approach on ca rbon under the Clean Air Act. We 8


### are opposed to this proposal that would punish 9


### electricity consumers , have no material benefit 10


### under climate theory, and is indeed outside the 11



### bounds of the law in the Clean Air Act. 12


### This proposal

-- 13



### MR. POWERS: Excuse me. Could you get 14


### just a bit closer to the mic? Yeah. Thank you. 15



### MR. PALMER: Yeah. I'm sorry. Peabody 16


### has profound disagreement with EPA's approach on 17


### carbon under the Clean Air Act. We are opposed 18


### to this proposal as it punishes electricity 19



### consume rs, has no material benefit under climate 20


### theory, and is outside the bounds of the Clean 21


### Air Act itself. This proposal must be withdrawn. 22

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### Access to clean affordable energy is 1



### essential at a time when a record 115 million 2


### Americans qualify for energy assis tance and 48 3


### million Americans live in poverty. 4


### Last week the Washington Post put a face 5


### on this very real daily struggle. It brought to 6


### light the story of a single mother of five 7



### children in Pueblo, Colorado struggling to pay 8


### their power bills. "Why d o you need to turn the 9


### lights off," Sharon Garcia asks her son. 10


### "Because otherwise there's no money," he replies. 11



### "And when there's no money you can't feed us." 12


### No matter how deep she rations Sharon 13


### can't get ahead of rising costs, a major cause of 14



### the s tate's increase in electricity costs is 15



### attributable to the shutdown of coal plants and 16


### an aggressive transition to renewables. 17


### Sharon's story is commonplace in 18


### California, a state the EPA lauds as its energy 19


### model. California has exacerbated energy 20


### inequ ality and it is widespread in the areas of 21


### the state away from the coast and it has turned 22

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### away business based on high renewable mandates 1


### and energy taxes. Efficiency in California, 2


### which is lauded by many, has been achieved by 3



### demand destruction with lar ge manufacturing 4


### fleeing the state. 5


### California prices are 40 percent higher 6


### than the U.S. average and 700,000 manufacturing 7


### jobs have been lost since 2000. And if 8



### California is the future, it does not work. 9


### EPA's proposal is symbolic only, and 10



### would have no significant benefit under climate 11


### theory. An entire shutdown of America's coal 12


### fleet, which is not being proposed would result 13


### in 120th of one degree temperature change. 14


### Widespread opposition to this proposal is 15



### evident and it is nationwide, as we can see by 16



### action in the House of Representatives , the 17


### People's House, and in the U.S. Senate and state 18


### legislative actions. 19


### In mid July the House Appropriations 20


### Committee passed a spending bill prohibiting EPA 21


### from using funds for carbon standards. In March 22

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### the House passed Woodfield Mansion to repeal the 1


### proposed new source rule and stop 111D without 2


### congressional approval. Forty

- one Republican 3



### senators have asked EPA to withdraw the rule, 4



### seven Democratic senators have written the 5


### President complaining abo ut the new source 6



### performance standards. 7


### Over 20 states passed legislation or 8


### resolution stating greenhouse gas emissions can 9


### only be regulated on a plant by plant basis 10


### inside the fence so to speak, not the system wide 11



### state approach that EPA takes. 12



### Ci tizen and business groups are 13


### activating, led by the Partnership for a Better 14


### Energy Future, a business coalition representing 15



### 80 percent of the U.S. economy coast to coast. 16



### Peabody proposes a better path that calls 17


### for investing in efficiency improvemen ts, 18


### deploying advanced super critical coal plants and 19


### supporting greater research and development 20


### towards next generation technologies including 21



### carbon capture and storage. 22

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### More and more nations are pushing back 1


### against flawed carbon policies and EPA needs to 2


### recognize this. 3



### Australia's Prime Minister called the 4



### former Carbon Tax a useless destructive tax which 5


### damaged jobs, hurt family's cost of living, and 6



### didn't actually help the environment. And of 7



### course that carbon tax has been repealed. 8


### Japan just s tepped up support for coal 9



### fueled power plants both domestically and 10


### overseas in the international lending institution 11


### arena, saying it would rather break a promise 12


### than its economy. 13


### Once these realities are understood by 14


### the American people, and they will be, EPA's 15


### actions will be rejected as policy prescriptions 16



### that are adverse to human health and welfare, the 17


### exact opposite of EPA's mandate under the Clean 18


### Air Act. Thank you. 19


### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Ivy Main. 20


### MS. MAIN: Thank you. My name is Ivy 21



### Main . I'm the Chair of the Virginia Chapter of 22

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### the Sierra Club, representing our more than 1



### 15,000 members who live in the Commonwealths . I 2


### apologize just a little bit of brain whiplash 3



### here. But from our point of view the EPA's Clean 4


### Power Plan proposal is the most important action 5



### the U.S. has ever taken to address global 6


### warming. 7


### It has already changed the conversation 8


### in Virginia. Here, business as usual has always 9


### meant keeping energy cheap no matter what it 10



### costs us. That won't fly anymore. The new 11


### reference point is carbon. 12



### We can meet the carbon budget you've 13


### proposed for Virginia, and more. With offshore 14



### wind, land

- based wind, solar energy and energy 15


### efficiency, we have the potential to go way 16


### beyond what is proposed. I hope we will do so 17



### becau se the baked in effects of global warming 18


### are already serious and we need to do everything 19



### we can to avoid much worse. 20


### As the recent Risky Business Report 21


### warns, extreme heat is going to have a serious 22

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### affect on our economy and our lives. 1



### Like the rest o f the southeast Virginia 2


### already has hot, humid summers that make outdoor 3


### activity difficult during the worst summer heat 4



### waves. When you add to that an average 5


### temperature increase of a few degrees due to 6


### global warming we will have long stretches of 7



### tim e in June, July, August and September where 8


### people in the Southeast cannot be out of doors in 9


### the middle of the day. Not as in, it's too 10


### unpleasant to be outside, but as in, it's life

11


### threatening to work outside. 12


### The lucky ones are those with air 13



### condit ioned homes and cars and offices. Even 14


### they will find it a drag not to be able to garden 15


### or go for a run or send the children outside to 16



### play. But there are a lot of people who have to 17



### be outside. Farm workers, road crews, 18


### construction workers, day labo rers, landscape 19


### workers, roofers, sanitation workers, many 20


### others. These Virginians do jobs that are 21


### critical to our economy. Yet they are often at 22

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### the bottom of the wage scale and have little say 1


### over their working conditions. For these people 2



### today's business as usual cheap power at any cost 3


### approach is a threat to their livelihoods, their 4


### health, and conceivably their lives. 5



### Extreme heat is also a threat to 6


### Virginians in a power outage. If the future of 7


### the Southeast is a place that is uninhabitable 8


### without air conditioning, what happens when the 9


### air conditioning goes out? Every summer storm 10


### becomes a potential health crisis. Especially 11


### for the elderly and the poor. People are going 12


### to die because we have delayed so long in 13


### addressing carbon. 14


### Virg inia policy makers and local 15


### officials have to begin to prepare for these 16



### baked in effects of our fossil fuel addiction. 17


### There has been a lot of foot dragging and a lot 18


### of just plain hoping that it won't happen. But 19



### this is our future and this is what we have to 20



### plan for. 21


### The good news is that we can still limit 22

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### the extent of the crisis and the Clean Power Plan 1


### is a good place to start. Thank you. 2



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much, both of 3



### you. Next speakers are Congresswoman Sanchez and 4



### Collin O'Mara. And on deck behind them are Lena 5


### Moffitt and Georgia Murray. 6


### MS. SANCHEZ: Good morning. I'm 7


### Congresswoman Linda Sanchez and I proudly 8


### represent California's 38th Congressional 9



### District. 10


### I want to thank you for the opportunity 11


### to testify about the impor tance of the EPA's 12



### Clean Power Plan. I'm here to lend a voice to 13


### minority communities across our country whose 14



### health and livelihood are affected by poor 15



### environmental conditions. 16



### As a law maker, an environmentalist, and 17


### most importantly as a mother, I'm here to 18



### advocate on behalf of the full implementation of 19



### the Clean Power Plan. 20


### I understand the urgency associated with 21


### combating the sources of pollution that are 22

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### contributing to climate change and posing serious 1


### health risks to our general population. 2


### As a representative of a district with a 3


### large Latino and Asian/American population, my 4



### constituents stand to lose the most if we fail to 5


### implement the plan's carbon reduction guidelines. 6


### Thirty

- one percent of Latinos live within 7


### 30 miles of a power pla nt. Equally alarming is 8


### the fact that Latinos are 165 percent more likely 9


### to live in counties with unhealthy levels of 10


### particulate matter pollution. 11


### The consequences of these environmental 12


### conditions are evident in the high rates of 13



### asthma among the Lat ino community. Today, over 14



### 3.6 million Latinos in the U.S. suffer from 15


### asthma, including one in 10 Latino children. 16



### As a mother, these numbers are 17



### unacceptable and they underscore the need for a 18


### common sense plan to reduce carbon pollution, 19


### especially f rom high producing sources such as 20



### power plants. 21


### In the United States today power plants 22

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### are the largest source of carbon dioxide 1


### emissions, and they produce one third of all 2


### domestic greenhouse emissions. Despite these 3


### staggering statistics carbon pollut ion from power 4


### plants is currently not regulated. Regulating 5


### their carbon output would help reduce pollutants 6


### that contribute to the soot and the smog that 7


### make people sick. 8



### I'm here to declare that we can no longer 9



### afford to wait to act on climate chan ge. I want 10



### a safe and secure future for my son and for the 11


### constituents that I represent. And I think 12


### millions of parents across the country would 13


### agree with me. 14


### As government officials we are tasked 15


### with promoting the wellbeing of our citizens and 16



### I kno w we can do more to address the health risks 17


### associated with carbon pollution. 18


### The clean power plan is a serious step 19


### towards protecting Americans from the 20


### consequences of climate change. It clearly 21


### outlines the changes that must be made in order 22

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### to limit the health and economic costs associated 1


### with carbon pollution. If implemented the Clean 2


### Power Plan would help cut pollution by 30 percent 3


### from 2005 levels and result in $55 to $93 billion 4



### in health and climate benefits, because there are 5



### costs associate d with doing nothing. 6


### I know that this change is possible 7


### because my home state of California has already 8


### implemented many of the guidelines proposed by 9



### the EPA and the facts speak for themselves. 10



### California has the fourth lowest carbon emissions 11



### in the n ation and our electricity bills are 25 12



### percent below average

. 13


### Let me repeat that because I think 14


### there's been erroneous prior testimony. 15


### California's electricity bills are 25 percent 16



### below average. 17


### The benefits are significant but the 18



### costs of not act ing are much greater. On behalf 19


### of our country, my constituents, and the 28 20


### million Hispanics living in areas with unhealthy 21


### levels of ozone I urge you to fully implement the 22

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### Clean Power Plan. And I thank you for allowing 1


### me to testify today. 2



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. 3


### Collin. Good morning. 4


### MR. O'MARA: good morning. It is 5


### wonderful to be with all of you and thank you for 6


### the opportunity to testify today in support of 7



### the Clean Power Plan. It is an honor to be 8


### sitting here with Congresswoman Sa nchez, who I'm 9


### a big fan of from a distance. And it's really an 10



### honor to be in the same room where Administrator 11


### McCarthy announced this plan just a few months 12



### ago. 13



### As the CEO of the nation's

-- the largest 14


### wildlife conservation organization, with 4 15



### milli on members and supporters of 48 state 16


### affiliate organizations. 17



### The National Wildlife Federation is here 18


### today because of our nation's treasured wildlife, 19


### outdoor heritage, and communities that are being 20


### affected by climate impacts right now. 21



### I'm here to speak for wildlife, because 22

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### they can't speak for themselves. Ask any hunter 1


### or angler, any birder or gardener , ask any farmer 2



### or forester , ask any hiker or camper what they're 3


### seeing on the ground and they will tell you that 4


### things are changing. From wil d fires in the 5


### west, droughts in the southeast, and in 6



### California, and floods in the Midwest, extreme 7


### storms along the Eastern Seaboard, rising seas 8


### along our coasts, the evidence of climate impacts 9


### are all around us and occurring right now. 10



### The stories of destroyed habitat and 11


### destroyed communities from extreme storms in 12


### particular becoming all too familiar. Wildlife 13


### are struggling and as their breeding grounds 14


### vanish their ranges shift and their food sources 15


### run scarce, or their homes are overrun by 16



### inva sive species. Too many wildlife species that 17



### we love are at risk of extinction. 18


### Moose from Minnesota and Maine are seeing 19


### record drops in their population due to exploding 20



### tick populations . Trout and Salmon in the west 21


### are struggling as their rivers and streams run 22

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### warm. Shore birds migrating through my state of 1


### Delaware and along the Atlantic flyway are 2


### experiencing rapid lost of feeding, foraging, and 3


### roosting habitat due to coastal erosion and sea 4


### level rise. And the wetland breeding grounds of 5



### our n ation's most treasured water fowl are drying 6


### up in the Northern Great Plains, effecting ducks 7


### that sportsman and birders alike love near and 8



### far. 9


### We are not merely losing our outdoor 10


### heritage. Insufficient action also threatens our 11



### multi

- billion dollar ou tdoor recreation and 12


### tourism economy. Sportsmen and other outdoors 13


### enthusiasts help conserve and protect our wild 14


### places while infusing billions of dollars into 15



### our local economies. 16



### While the National Wildlife Federation is 17


### working diligently with wildl ife and land 18


### managers across the country to help make wildlife 19



### habitat and local communities more resilient, 20



### science tells us that we need to rapidly curb 21


### industrial pollution to avoid climate impacts 22

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### that many species will simply not be able to 1



### adapt to. We need to make sure as a nation we 2


### are doing everything that we can to reduce the 3


### pollution that is fueling climate change, and 4


### invest in a clean energy future that will protect 5



### wildlife, children, our air and our water and 6


### again helping our communities prosper. 7



### For these reasons we are here today to 8



### applaud the long overdue step of reigning in 9


### carbon pollution from the nation's largest 10


### industrial source, existing power plants. 11


### Our state affiliates across the country 12


### are lining up in hearings across the country 13


### right now to talk about their diligent work on 14


### these issues locally and to support this effort 15


### at all the hearings across the country. 16


### The proposed standard is a strong start. 17


### It is a uniquely American solution in that it 18



### establishes clear common sense standards while 19


### providing states with the flexibility and tools 20



### to achieve the standards in a way that makes the 21



### most sense for them. 22

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### It builds effectively upon work occurring 1



### in states across the nation. It allows for 2


### regional collaboration whic h time and time again 3


### has proven the best way to address pollution 4


### challenges that transcend state boundaries, and 5


### it's very clear the EPA listened closely to the 6


### states and stakeholders in developing this plan. 7



### And we are grateful for the efforts of 8



### Admi nistrator McCarthy, Jan et McCabe, Joe 9



### Goffman, Tom and the entire Office of Air and 10


### Radiation putting this proposal together. 11



### We do believe that the Clean Power Plan 12


### should be strengthened to increase deployment of 13


### energy efficiency measures and wildlife f riendly 14


### clean energy sources. We know this can be done 15


### with far reaching benefits to wildlife that 16


### extend beyond the anticipated carbon reductions. 17


### This rule will also help reduce the pollution 18


### from other criteria pollutants that have made 19


### pristine lakes lifeless due to acid rain, made 20


### fish dangerous to eat because of mercury and led 21



### to smog

-- led to the smog that makes air 22

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### unhealthy for all of us to breath, including 1



### wildlife. These co

- benefits are real and have 2


### been extremely important to our environm ent. 3


### In my previous role as Secretary of 4



### National Resources in Environmental control in 5



### Delaware I had the privilege of playing a leading 6


### role as Chair of the Regional Greenhouse Gas 7


### Initiative to create a regional program for 8


### reducing carbon emissions. T his initiative 9



### crossed through 9 states underscores the 10


### potential for forward thinking, ambitious 11


### emission reduction programs to achieve meaningful 12



### results while reducing costs and creating jobs. 13


### RGGI demonstrates that it's possible when 14



### state coordinate regionally that we can reduce 15


### carbon pollution in ways that reduce energy 16



### bills, create tens of thousands of construction 17


### jobs, deliver billions of dollars in economic 18


### savings, and in value to the economy, while in 19


### our case reducing emissions by more than 40 20


### percent across the nine states. 21


### It demonstrates that ambitious targets 22

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### can be met and set. This isn't theory. I mean, 1


### this is actual tangible proof on the ground while 2


### also spurring great investments in our economy. 3



### EPA's draft Clean Power Plan has key 4


### elements that could yield the benefits that we 5


### observed throughout the implementation of RGGI. 6


### Our written comments will go into much more 7



### detail, but there are two areas I would like to 8


### highlight for areas for potential strengthening. 9



### The most effe ctive way to reduce carbon 10


### pollution and energy bills simultaneously is 11


### through energy efficiency. In my role as Chair 12


### of RGGI I saw firsthand the massive potential to 13


### reduce emissions through energy efficiency, and 14


### the economic opportunities, particularl y in our 15


### urban communities through investments in energy 16


### efficiency. 17


### The energy efficiency assumptions in the 18



### proposed rule could be strengthened and they 19


### should strive to replicate the proven successes 20


### of many of the aggressive state programs and 21


### polici es already in place. 22

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### Secondly EPA should adjust the renewable 1


### energy growth assumptions to more accurately 2


### reflect the potential in states and regions. As 3


### technology and deployment prices continue to 4


### plummet many states have already, or will soon 5



### meet the level of renewable energy generation 6



### that EPA assumed that wouldn't be met until 2020. 7



### These state targets should be 8


### strengthened to reflect this. Technologies like 9



### distributed solar and even offshore wind are 10


### unrepresented in the current calculation, de spite 11


### their particular

-- their potential to help 12


### reduce costs, stabilize prices, and then add 13


### additional job creation in the states with those 14



### resources. 15


### Through these two actions EPA's plan can 16


### achieve greater reductions and reduce overall 17


### energy bills. The Clean Power Plan represents 18


### real progress, not only for America's fish, 19



### wildlife, and birds, but for the millions of 20


### sportsmen, hunters, anglers, wildlife watchers, 21


### birders, nature loves across the country, and for 22

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### future generations who also will enj oy America's 1


### great natural treasures, including my two year 2


### old daughter, Riley. 3



### On behalf of our 4 million members and 4


### our supporters, including the 80,000 members of 5


### the National Wildlife Federation who have already 6


### submitted comments to EPA on this spec ific rule, 7


### we applaud you for taking this important step and 8


### we look forward to working with all of you to 9



### ach ie ve the new standards and protect wildlife 10


### across this nation. Thank you very much. 11



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much. 12



### Next speakers are Le na, or Lena Moffitt and 13


### George Murray. And on deck behind them are 14


### Hannah Wiegard, if I'm pronoun c ing that right, 15



### and Jeff Feng. 16


### MS. MOFFITT: Good morning. Try and keep 17


### us on time so we won't delay. 18


### Thank you for this opportunity to comment 19


### this morning . My name is Lena Moffitt and I'm 20


### the manager for Federal Policy for the National 21


### Wildlife Federation. I'll try not to repeat too 22

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### much of what my boss just said. 1



### The National Wildlife Federation is the 2


### country's oldest and largest wildlife 3



### conservation o rganization committed to 4


### safeguarding our wild outdoor heritage for future 5


### generations. 6


### NWF has affiliate organizations in almost 7


### every state across the country, committed to 8


### protecting wildlife and the ecosystems they 9


### depend on. To that end our affilia te 10


### organizations are present at all four Clean Power 11


### Plan hearings happening across the country this 12


### week, and are committed to seeing this rule over 13



### the finish line. 14


### This includes our affiliates in places 15



### like Nebraska , Texas, Arkansas, Virginia, North 16



### Ca rolina, Maine, Montana and more. They've seen 17


### the devastating impacts that climate change is 18


### having on wildlife that they love and understand 19


### that we must take action today to avoid 20


### increasing extinctions of species that we care 21



### about. 22

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### Our members and aff iliate partners also 1



### understand that the clean power plan presents an 2


### unparalleled opportunity to truly foster the 3


### local renewable solutions to climate change that 4


### our country has been waiting for, for far too 5



### long. 6


### By including renewable energy sources an d 7


### energy efficiency and the best system of emission 8


### reductions your Agency has potentially unleashed 9



### -- potentially opened the floodgates of American 10


### ingenuity to tackle climate change head on; to 11



### build state

- based partnerships that harness the 12


### pollution f ree resources of the sun and wind, to 13


### invest in our communities, to grow the 14


### manufacturing base for these industries, and to 15


### reinvigorate American leadership in the clean 16



### energy economy of tomorrow. 17



### So we're here today to demonstrate our 18



### support and to ask you to lean in to this 19


### challenge. The standard released on June 2nd is 20


### a strong start, but it can and should be even 21


### stronger, given the magnitude of the problem that 22

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### we face, and the solutions that we know already 1



### exist. 2


### I'd like to share a few key tech nical 3


### recommendations that we'll expand upon in our 4



### comments. Overall the standard can and should be 5


### stronger. Analysis has indicated that reductions 6



### on the order of 35 to 40 percent below 2005 7


### levels by 2020 can be achieved at reasonable 8



### costs. 9



### Second ly, your agency has rightly 10


### recognize that energy efficiency is the most 11



### cost

- effective and efficient way to reduce our 12


### emissions quickly. 13



### Many state programs have successfully 14


### demonstrated the potential for efficiency to 15


### quickly and affordably reduce em issions. 16



### However, cost

- effective energy efficiency can be 17


### achieved even more quickly than assumed in 18


### setting the state standards. 19


### Third, wildlife friendly renewable energy 20


### has been growing at an astonishing rate. In 2012 21


### wind and solar power were two o f the fastest 22

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### growing electricity generation technologies in 1


### the U.S. Cumulative installed wind energy 2


### capacity increased by near 20 percent, and 3



### cumulative solar photovoltaic capacity grew more 4



### than 83 percent from the previous year. 5


### Your agency rightl y included these 6



### resources in setting the state standards, but the 7


### availability and quantity of renewable energy 8


### opportunities assumed, we believe was too low. 9


### By setting assumptions about renewable 10


### energy potential too low, the standard currently 11



### leaves a chievable reductions on the table. 12


### Fourth, we believe EPA should analyze 13


### resource availability and cost on a state and 14


### regional basis rather than limiting the 15


### assessment of potential development to current 16


### renewable portfolio standards in states and 17


### regio ns, and remove artificial growth constraints 18



### on renewable energy. 19


### We hope you will consider the full 20


### potential of the wide variety of renewable 21


### resources, including offshore wind power and 22

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### distributed solar power that were not included in 1


### setting the state s standards. 2


### In establishing each state's target your 3


### agency must account for planned and anticipated 4


### fossil fuel plant retirements and the current 5


### rate of change from coal to lower emitting 6


### resources like natural gas. 7



### EPA must ensure that state targets 8



### ac tually drive emission reductions that weren't 9


### going to occur anyway. 10


### And finally, EPA must also address 11


### lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions from natural 12


### gas, particularly given the role of natural gas 13


### as a compliance option. 14


### NWF is currently working with ou r 15


### affiliates across the country in many states like 16


### Pennsylvania and Colorado, to encourage EPA to 17


### move forward with parallel separate regulations 18



### in concert with the Clean Power Plan to ensure 19


### that unchecked methane pollution doesn't erode 20



### the climate ben efits of a switch to natural gas. 21


### Again, we look forward to working with 22

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### you to strengthen, finalize, and implement this 1


### important standard. And personally I just want 2


### to say thank you for taking this opportunity. 3


### Young people get this issue. We're here . We 4


### have your back, and we are looking forward to 5


### finishing the standard with you. 6



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 7


### MR. MURRAY: Good morning. Appreciate 8


### the opportunity to come speak all the way from 9


### New Hampshire. 10



### The Appalach ian Mountain Club's mission 11



### is t o promote the protection, enjoyment, and 12


### understanding of the mountain's force, and waters 13


### and trails of the Appalachian region. We have 14



### more than 100,000 members and supporters who 15


### largely reside in the Northeast and Mid A tlantic. 16



### As an outdoor constitue ncy we are 17


### concerned about the current day impacts and 18


### increasing threats of climate change. Our 19


### members value consistent and playable snow in 20


### winter for snowshoeing, cross

- country skiing, as 21


### to the many small and big businesses that rely on 22

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### winter recrea tion. 1



### We are concerned about the threats to 2


### healthy air and the degradation of air quality in 3


### a warmer world. And the increasing number of 4



### severe storms that wreak havoc on our landscape 5


### and infrastructure, and require significant trail 6



### maintenance for sa fe and enjoyable hiking. 7


### We have evidence of change happening 8


### today just outside my office in Pinkham Notch, 9


### New Hampshire. And I brought a few graphics. 10



### This shows the time trend of total snow 11


### fall from Pinkham Notch, New Hampshire, over time 12



### since the 3 0s. Sixty seven inches less snowfall 13


### in total on average. We're seeing snow leaving 14


### 15 days earlier on average. We're seeing 15


### temperature trends similar to what's seen across 16


### the region and the globe, and we're also seeing 17


### that increase as you move throu gh time in the 18


### rate of change. It's happening now. 19


### We strongly support the EPA's authority 20


### to regulate greenhouse gases under the Clean Air 21


### Act, and believe that it is appropriate and 22

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### essential to regulate these air pollutants for 1


### existing power plants un der Section 111D of the 2



### Act. 3


### We are encouraged by the overall emission 4


### reductions EPA has proposed of 30 percent by 5


### 2030, from power plants which would be a 6


### significant step towards achieving an ultimate 7


### national target of 80 percent by 2050. 8



### The Clean Air Act requires that best 9


### systems of emission reductions is established in 10


### setting up the 111D standards. We believe that 11


### EPA has provided a flexible and effective, 12


### achievable, and already proven best system 13


### approach that considers costs and environment al 14


### targets. EPA has also appropriately called for 15



### states to submit enforceable SIPs or State 16


### Implementation Plans that will ensure state 17


### emission reduction targets are met. 18



### Many Northeast states have found success 19


### in reducing carbon emissions with origina l 20


### greenhouse gas initiative and we applaud EPA's 21


### inclusion of this type of program as a compliance 22

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### option. 1



### The recently strengthened RGGI program 2


### cap has locked in significant reductions in 3


### greenhouse gas pollutions from the power sector. 4



### There are some minor adjustments that should be 5


### made with the RGGI program to ensure that EPA 6


### targets are met and we will detail those in 7



### written comments in the future. 8


### But it is a proven and

-- it is a proven 9


### success and we look forward to encouraging other 10


### states to j oin the RGGI program to reduce 11


### greenhouse gas pollution in order to meet the EPA 12


### requirements. 13


### We believe a focus on energy efficiency 14



### and conservation should be the priority of any 15


### plan to reduce the impacts of climate change. We 16



### need to not only burn le ss fossil fuels but 17



### maintain a balanced approach to energy 18


### development that includes land protection and 19


### pristine and natural places that are set aside 20


### for public use. 21



### To achieve this balance we need to reduce 22

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### the overall demand for energy. I did want to 1


### highlight some initial concerns with the proposed 2


### rule, targets, and assumptions around energy 3


### efficiency. EPA should base each state's 4


### renewable and efficiency targets on the policies 5


### already adopted in each state. EPA should not 6



### use formulas for state targets that assume less 7


### generation and energy efficiency savings in 2030 8


### that the state has already achieved today. 9


### Further, we believe EPA should encourage 10


### a faster rate of energy efficiency and renewable 11


### energy expansion within states, and review the 12



### as sumptions about the compliance cost of energy 13


### efficiency in the context of both rate

- based and 14



### mass

- based options. 15


### Energy efficiency investments have been 16


### proven to be highly effective in lower cost of 17


### compliance within the RGGI program and must be a 18



### core component in our transition to a clean 19



### energy economy. 20


### Thank you for this opportunity to 21


### comment, the AMC looks forward to submitting more 22

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### substantive written comments before the public 1


### comment period closes in October. Thank you. 2



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much. 3


### Next speakers are Hannah Wiegard and Jeff Feng. 4



### And after them are Governor Markell and Greg 5



### Dotson. 6


### And while the next panelists are getting 7


### seated I'd just reiterate something I said 8


### earlier for those of you who may not have been 9



### here. We are taking written comment until 10



### October 16th and encourage people to elaborate on 11


### an oral statement, or if you prefer to submit a 12


### written statement instead of oral, every written 13



### statement gets carefully read. 14



### Hannah. 15



### MS. WIEGARD: Thank you. Plea se excuse 16


### if we take a couple snapshots up here. It's just 17


### we're so proud to be in this room. 18


### My name is Hannah Weigard. I live in 19



### Charlottesville , Virginia. Today I'm speaking, 20


### representing Appalachian Voices, a regional 21


### environmental nonprofit working shoulder to 22

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### shoulder with partner groups around the Southeast 1



### to lend more voices to this critical 2



### conversation. 3


### Appalachian Voices is an organization 4


### dedicated to speaking up for the mountain region 5


### and those most impacted by extreme coal mining 6



### methods, applauds the national action on carbon 7



### that's been so overdue. 8


### Having grown up in Richmond in the shadow 9


### of the Dutch Gap Power Station and seeing my 10


### younger sister suffer from asthma, I'm proud to 11


### be working to cut carbon emissions in the region, 12



### along w ith our partner gropes through our 13


### programs to grow a local energy efficiency and 14



### clean energy economy throughout the Southeast. 15


### Regional supporters of energy efficiency 16


### and renewable energy along with public health and 17


### environmental advocates are watching closely to 18


### see how EPA guidelines influence the Southeast's 19


### overall energy mix. And in the meantime we've 20


### seen a swell of support from our region for a 21


### strong limit on carbon dioxide pollution from the 22

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### country's nearly 600 coal fired power plants. 1



### Folks across the political spectrum have 2


### now actually been making the connection between 3



### global warming and our energy choices; especially 4



### when it comes to sea level rise in Eastern 5


### Virginia, a place that's dear to my heart. 6


### The impacts of our increasingly warmi ng 7


### planet have been covered a moment ago by Ivy Main 8


### of the Sierra Club. I'll just add that we hear 9


### from home gardeners and large scale growers alike 10


### in our region, that the seasons have changed and 11



### continue to shift, and also from folks who like 12



### the outd oors, that ticks have been increasing 13



### really badly. And I was also really struck by 14


### the point just made about outdoor tourism and 15



### recreation. 16


### To wrap up, you know, our region will 17


### benefit from the opportunities that this rule 18


### signals in the way that it wi ll advance carbon 19



### free energy. 20


### I'll point out that a recent study from 21


### researchers at Carnegie Mellon University found 22

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### that wind and solar achieve greater health and 1



### climate benefits in Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, 2


### and West Virginia than in other parts of the 3



### country because they replaced the most 4


### electricity generated by coal plants. 5


### And according to Kyle Siler

- Evans at 6


### Carnegie Mellon University I would directly 7


### quote, "A wind turbine in West Virginia displaces 8



### twice as much carbon dioxide and seven ti mes as 9


### much health damage as the same turbine in 10



### California." 11


### While many states in our region still 12


### lack good policies to promote clean energy 13


### development, diminishing coal investment is 14



### already a clear trend. In July the World Bank 15



### announced it will end the financing of coal 16


### plants and circumstances where there are no 17



### feasible alternatives, and Goldman Sacks issued a 18


### paper recently with the blunt title, The Window 19


### for Thermal Coal Investment is Closing. 20


### So we've seen the signs. And flexible as 21



### the draft proposal is, it is really our hope that 22

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### it will transfer

-- or rather translate into a 1



### final rule that drives reductions in wasted 2


### energy in our region, a region that consumes so 3



### much power. 4


### Our region has seen coal jobs decline 5



### already and there's really a real promise and 6


### potential to diversify into a number of new 7


### industries to drive the economy. Especially 8


### through initiatives like promise zones. We know 9



### that the administration has shown a commitment to 10


### justice in our region. 11



### On behalf of our supporter s throughout 12


### Appalachia and across the country who are 13


### awaiting a strong final version of the rule, 14


### thank you for your leadership and responsible 15


### approach to getting our nation back on track to 16


### climate stability. Thank you. 17



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very muc h. Just 18


### one second. I'm going to exercise chair 19


### prerogative here and rearrange the next panel 20


### just ever so slightly. Senator Merkley is here 21


### and he needs to leave shortly. So after this 22

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### panel the next panel will be Governor Markell and 1



### Senator Merkley. Greg Dotson, I ask your 2


### indulgence. You and Fred Krupp will be the panel 3



### after that. 4



### Mr. Feng. 5


### MR. FENG: Thank you for this opportunity 6


### to speak. I'll try not to repeat anything my 7


### boss said. My name is Jeff Feng. I was born and 8



### raised in Ra d ford, Virginia in the heart of the 9


### New River Valley, and I'm a rising sophomore at 10


### Duke University. 11


### My comments today mark the approaching 12


### end in my summer internship with Appalachian 13


### Voices. It's an environmental nonprofit leading 14



### a concerted effort to protect the land, water, 15


### and air of the Appalachian region. 16


### It's fitting that I will end my 17


### internship where it began, with comments on the 18


### historic progress that had made weeks

-- that 19


### made news my first week on the job. The EPA's 20



### Clean Power Plan. 21



### The summer h as culminated at a whirlwind 22

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### pace, weaving together both familiar lessons and 1


### foreign concepts. I'm here today to present the 2


### most important lesson of all; there is strength 3


### in numbers and there is strength to diversity. 4


### In a few short weeks of petition ing 5


### public events we have collected over 1,220 6


### individual comments cards in support of the Clean 7


### Power Plan, stretching across all of Virginia and 8


### beyond these individuals realize the opportunity 9


### to build their own state's economy through the 10



### common sense approach of the Administration's 11



### plan. 12



### Small business owners

-- the economic 13


### factor on many communities have also responded to 14


### cutting carbon pollution. Recent polling from 15



### the American Sustainable Business Council 16


### indicates a clear majority of small bus iness 17


### owners support government regulations to curb 18


### carbon pollution from power plants. 19



### In one week 51 small business owners 20


### signed comment cards and sided with Appalachian 21


### Voices to support climate action. 22

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### Fundamentally they all realized, when an 1


### entity threatens our safety, health , and 2


### environment, they must act. As we move forward 3


### we are problemetizing (sic) the environment. We 4


### are asking ourselves the tough questions, and 5


### considering the leeward side of the environmental 6


### agenda. Will all our effort s be worth it? And I 7


### certainly think so, and so did the 1,220 8



### individuals and 51 small business owners I 9



### present to you today. 10


### The proposal gives us flexibility, but we 11


### are advocating for a cleaner future and the space 12


### to move forward with energy efficien cy and 13



### ren e wables that will hopefully become more cost 14


### effective than they already are. 15


### And if implemented poorly, much of our 16


### work will be for naught. With these slots in 17


### mind, we are prepared to keep fighting and 18


### implore the EPA to continue to address the risks 19


### associated with climate change. 20



### In closing my internship, much like the 21



### EPA Clean Power Plan has been a commemoration of 22

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### environmental success, while also creating a 1


### unique space to think critically of the 2



### challenges to come. In the subsequent years I 3


### imagine we'll dig beneath the superficial, 4


### examining and learning to benefit future 5


### generations and ourselves. Thank you. 6



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much. 7


### Next panel is Governor Markell, and I think this 8


### is supposed to say Senator Markey, o r is there a 9



### -- 10



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. Yes. 11



### MR. POWERS: Senator, you're welcome to

- 12



### - is there a Senator Merkley? Is that correct? 13


### I'm sorry. I wondered if it was a misprint. 14


### Senator Merkley, you were here first. You're 15



### next. 16



### Okay. And then Senator Markey you'll be 17


### next, recognizing my home state senator. Good to 18



### -- Governor. 19



### SENATOR MERKLEY: Thank you very much. 20


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the 21


### importance of the Clean Power Plan. I 22

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### particularly want to thank EPA for taki ng this 1


### historic step to tackle carbon pollution. 2



### We have all heard the arguments from 3


### skeptics that the Clean Power Plan is just 4


### another job

- killing regulation. But let's get 5


### the facts straight. Carbon pollution is waging a 6



### direct assault on rural Ameri ca. It is a direct 7



### assault on jobs in in America. And if we sit 8


### back and do nothing there will be severe economic 9


### disruption. 10



### In that context the Clean Power Plan, the 11


### most significant action ever taken to combat 12


### carbon pollution in the United States, is 13


### indispensible to our economic future. 14


### This is an issue that affects every state 15


### in our country, but today I'll speak specifically 16


### about the impacts we are seeing in my home state 17


### of Oregon, where our farming, fishing, and forest 18


### industries are already s eeing the effects of 19


### carbon pollution. 20


### Let me start with farming. Farming is 21


### crucial to Oregon's rural economy. Many family 22

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### farmers and ranchers rely on snow melt to supply 1


### a stable supply of irrigation water in the 2


### spring. We are already seeing a 20 pe rcent drop 3


### in the snow pack in the Cascades since 1950. 4


### With warmer temperatures and less waters, farmers 5


### are seeing a significant problem regarding the 6


### supply of water for their growing season. 7


### Not only that the precipitation patterns 8


### are becoming increa singly irregular, adding a 9


### layer of uncertainty for farmers who have 10


### invested their livelihoods in their crops. 11



### Farmers and ranchers in the Klamath Basin 12



### of Oregon, for example, have been hammered by 13


### major droughts in 2001, 2010, 2013, and they are 14



### strug gling to stay afloat. If you talk to these 15


### farmers and ranchers, not just in Klamath County, 16



### but throughout Oregon, you'll hear that the 17


### impact of the changing climate is not some 18


### distant threat, it is a threat and a reality 19


### right now. 20


### Or turn to fishing. Fishing is another 21


### critical industry that's in danger from the 22

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### assault of carbon pollution, with lower snow melt 1


### we have warmer and smaller rivers in the spring, 2


### and in the summer making it harder on our trout, 3


### and certainly more difficult for our Salmon and 4



### our Steelhead. 5



### And over on our coast our oyster farmers 6


### are being impacted by ocean acidification. 7


### Greater carbon dioxide in the air absorbed by the 8


### ocean results in more acidity when the carbon 9



### dioxide dissolves in the ocean and becomes 10



### carbonic a cid. 11


### Our ocean is 30 percent more acidic today 12



### than it was before the Industrial Revolution. 13


### And this increased acidity is preventing young 14


### oysters from forming shells, causing mortalities 15


### at oyster hatcheries. 16


### If that is a challenge for baby oysters, 17


### what else is going on in the ocean food chain, or 18


### the chain of life, that we should be deeply 19



### concerned about. 20


### Talking to fishermen and oyster farmers 21


### in Oregon, you'll hear that climate change and 22

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### carbon pollution is not some distant threat, it 1


### is happen ing now. 2



### And let's turn to forests. Carbon 3


### pollution is also compounding threat to Oregon's 4


### forests, which support thousands of jobs in our 5


### state. Warmer conditions put our forests under 6


### greater stress making them more prone to wild 7



### fires and infestation s. 8



### You have to look no further than the wild 9



### fires burn ing in Oregon today to see how bad this 10


### problem is. At this moment we have seven large 11


### fires burning in Oregon which consumed almost 12


### half a million acres, and we're still many months 13


### to go in the fire season. 14


### In fact the fire season has grown from 15


### five months to seven months just since the 1970s. 16



### In addition, Mountain Pine Beatle 17


### infestations are turning previously green forests 18


### into red landscapes of dead trees. It's known as 19



### the red zone. These inf estations continue to 20



### spread across the Northwest due to warmer and 21



### shorter winters. 22

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### Combined with decades of hazardous fuels 1


### building up in our forest, climate change is 2


### making a bad problem worse. 3


### So if you talk to foresters in Oregon 4



### you'll hear that cl imate change isn't some 5


### distant threat. It's happening right now. 6


### We could look at any one of these impacts 7



### as an anomaly . But when you step back and look 8


### at the full picture, when you look at the trends, 9


### the science is undeniable. Certainly carbon 10



### poll ution is assaulting our rural resources and 11


### the impact is growing. Our farming, fishing, and 12


### forestry matter. They matter in the State of 13


### Oregon, they matter to our nation, and they need 14



### to be protected. 15


### The Clean Power Plan will not only save 16


### jobs in th ose sectors, but it will invest in 17


### hundreds of thousands of jobs in the clean energy 18



### economy. 19


### In fact the solar energy industry alone 20


### now employs roughly twice as many people as the 21


### coal mining industry. To say nothing of wind, 22

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### biomass, geothermal, and other renewable 1



### resources. 2


### This is why I support the Clean Power 3


### Plan. If anything I think we should think 4


### seriously about strengthening it. Let there be 5


### no doubt that the Clean Power Plan is a key tool 6


### to reduce the job

- killing impacts of carbon 7


### polluti on. And it's a catalyst to help grow a 8


### thriving new clean energy economy that will 9


### provide even more jobs and a healthier planet. 10


### As Henry Thoreau once said, what good is 11


### a home if you don't have a tolerable planet to 12


### put it on? Thank you. 13



### MR. POWERS: T hank you very much. Could 14


### I remind all speakers to please state your name 15



### for the transcriber when we start? 16


### GOVENOR MARKELL: Good morning. My name 17



### is Jack Markell, I'm the Governor of the State of 18


### Delaware and I'm testifying in support of the 19



### Clean Pow er Plan, not because of what we think 20


### might be possible with this policy change, but 21


### because we know what this plan can do for the 22

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### nation. 1


### The EPA's proposal to address climate 2


### change would bring cleaner air, better health, 3


### more research manufacturing and construction 4


### jobs, and more efficient and less costly energy. 5



### We know that because we see all this 6


### happening in Delaware, where over the past five 7


### years we've shifted from one of the dirtiest 8


### energy mixes in the nation, to one of the 9



### cleanest. 10



### We've decrea sed emissions by a greater 11


### percentage than any other state, while creating 12


### jobs at the same time. And we've done so with 13


### the same approach that the President proposes for 14


### the country. We shut down or fuel switched nine 15


### out of our 10 dirtiest power plants , while the 16


### remaining unit installed hundreds of millions of 17


### dollars in pollution controls. 18


### We've increased a deployment of solar 19


### technology 30 times since 2008. We've 20


### strengthened building codes and we have spurred 21


### $100 million in efficiency upgrades, an d we've 22

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### also worked with states throughout the region to 1


### dramatically cut carbon pollution. 2


### The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative
, 3


### or RGGI, which you've heard about, has used a 4



### market based system to help reduce carbon 5


### pollution from power plants in our s tates by more 6


### than 40 percent since 2005. 7


### And EPA's plan will stimulate more of all 8


### of this activity across the nation. It lets 9



### states use solutions that work best for us 10


### individually to reduce dirty emissions, 11



### recogn iz ing that power plants produce more of 12


### these emissions than any other source in the 13



### country. 14



### And there's one example of what our 15



### strategy has meant for Delaware. I recently 16


### visited a site in Dover where hundreds of people 17


### are working to build a natural gas power 18


### generating facility for Cal pine Energy. Calpine 19


### has made it a priority to transition away from 20


### the power plants that produce the emissions, and 21


### of course, yes, they do it because they care 22

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### about the environment, but they also do it 1


### because it's good for their bottom line. 2



### In additi on, facilities like the one in 3


### Dover will produce cost effective energy that 4


### will reduce energy bills, while making our state 5



### more attractive to manufacturers. And in fact 6


### across the country it's projected that the Clean 7



### Power Plan would shrink electricit y bills by 8


### about eight percent by increasing efficiency and 9


### reducing demand. 10



### The economic benefits of this go far 11


### beyond the impact on individual energy companies 12



### or on consumer's bills. 13


### A report last month on the economic risks 14


### of climate change illustr ates the widespread 15


### effects, including damage to the agriculture and 16



### energy sectors, as well as to coastal 17


### communities, public health, and our labor 18


### productivity. And all this damage costs us a lot 19



### of money. 20


### In Delaware we've seen how rising sea 21



### levels ar e more powerful and frequent storms and 22

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### other extreme weather conditions put families and 1



### businesses at risk. 2


### Like Senator Merkley was talking about in 3


### his state, our largest industry, agriculture, 4


### faces severe conditions that harm crops. And as 5



### the low est lying state in the nation climate 6


### change could literally put much of Delaware under 7



### water. 8


### All states face their own challenges, and 9


### we governors don't have the luxury of pretending 10


### that climate change is not causing real damage. 11



### We're on the front li ne of hurricanes, wild 12


### fires, droughts, and other natural disasters. We 13



### see the property that's devastated and the cost 14


### of addressing the damage after the fact. We live 15


### with the consequences of inaction. 16



### Our families and businesses can't afford 17



### to wait a nd see what happens next before we act. 18


### So I'm pleased that the EPA has issued this new 19


### rule and I look forward to its implementation. 20



### Thank you. 21



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much. 22

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### Senator Markey and I think I'm a little out of 1



### order. Greg Dotson a nd then Fred Krupp will be 2



### on the next panel. 3


### I'd like to encourage anybody who would 4



### like a seat; there are plenty of seats here in 5


### the middle or behind me if you'd prefer to sit 6



### than stand. 7


### Senator Markey, good morning. 8



### SENATOR MARKEY: Thank you so much . I am 9



### Senator Ed Markey from Massachusetts, and I am 10


### here today to stand with America's families who 11



### want clean air, safe water, and a stable climate. 12


### The planet is running a fever. There are 13


### no emergency rooms for planets. America must 14



### lead. Histor y calls us to reduce greenhouse 15


### gases and unleash a clean energy revolution. 16


### When America sets strong environmental 17


### safeguards, and when our innovative spirit rises 18


### to the challenge, millions of jobs are created, 19



### millions of Americans are healthier, our ai r is 20



### cleaner, our water is safer. 21


### But that hasn't stopped critics from 22

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### attacking these proposed rules in the 1


### Environmental Protection Agency. Republicans in 2


### congress have said these rules would be 3


### catastrophic. The House Speaker called them 4



### nuts. One ev en accused EPA of acting like 5



### terrorists. 6


### If the critics of climate action spent 7


### more time believing in American innovation and 8


### less time attacking climate science, I believe 9


### our economy, our environment, and our planet 10



### would all be better off, because in my home state 11


### of Massachusetts, we've been reducing carbon 12


### pollution for years and the results are 13



### tremendous. 14


### The proposed EPA rule says that America 15



### should reduce our carbon emissions from coal 16



### plants by 30 percent by 2030, from 2005 levels. 17



### Massachuset ts, as part of the regional agreement 18


### to cut emissions has already reduced emissions by 19



### roughly 40 percent by 2005 levels. 20


### Massachusetts has moved aggressively to 21



### natural gas, to renewables, and to energy 22

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### efficiency. We are a small densely populated 1



### stat e known more for the Perfect Storm than for 2



### perfectly sunny days. But last year 3



### Massachusetts ranked fourth in the nation in 4



### solar deployment. We've been the number one 5


### state in the nation for energy efficiency for 6


### three years in a row. And we'll soon b e breaking 7


### ground on the first off

- shore wind farm in our 8


### country's history. 9



### What were the effects from all these 10


### carbon cutting clean energy actions? Our 11



### employment rate has outpaced the national average 12



### every single month except three since the 2008 13



### fin ancial crash . We employ 80,000 people in 14


### clean energy in Massachusetts. That number is 15


### expected to grow to 90,000 people working on 16


### clean energy in Massachusetts by the end of this 17



### year. 18


### When electricity rates around the United 19


### States have climbed 13 per cent over the past 20


### eight years, they have actually declined by six 21


### percent in Massachusetts over that time that we 22

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### have been reducing our greenhouse gases. 1


### And during these same years our 2



### Massachusetts economy expanded by 23 percent on 3


### nearly $80 billion , and the amount of electricity 4


### we consume actually declined. 5


### In Massachusetts we've radically slashed 6


### our carbon emissions, we've grown our economy, 7


### we've created good 21st Century jobs, we've 8


### reduced the amount of electricity we consume, and 9



### we pay less for electricity. 10


### Massachusetts has shown that reducing 11


### carbon pollution can be a money saver and a jobs 12



### creator. I thank administrator McCarthy and the 13


### EPA staff for crafting a common sense rule that 14


### will allow each state to find the best way 15



### forward to make carbon pollution reductions in 16



### their state. 17



### As the EPA works to finalize the rule 18


### during the coming year, I encourage the agency to 19


### look closely at the ability of energy efficiency 20


### and renewable energy to drive further pollution 21



### reductions. 22

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### The rea lity of climate change is already 1



### here. Globally June was the hottest June on 2


### record going back to 1880. The warmest June 3


### ever. For 352 straight months the planet's 4



### temperature has been above the 20th Century 5


### average. That means if you're 29 years old or 6


### younger, you have never known a month without 7



### hotter than average temperatures. 8


### The seas are rising, storms are getting 9



### stronger, the droughts longer, heat waves more 10



### intense. 11



### In May I had the honor to meet and 12


### discuss climate change with Pope Franci s and his 13


### top advisors in the Vatican. He understands that 14


### regardless of faith or party, we are all called 15


### to respond to this personal and planetary 16



### challenge. 17



### These EPA rules will allow the United 18


### States to engage in clean energy job creation 19



### that will benefit all of creation. Global 20


### warming is a moral issue. It is a security 21



### issue. It is an economic issue. It is the 22

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### challenge of our time and we must rise to meet 1


### it. Thank you. 2



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Greg Dotson. 3


### MR. DOTSON: Good morning. My na me is 4


### Greg Dotson. I'm the vice president for energy 5


### policy at the Center for American Progress. 6



### The Center for American Progress is a 7


### think tank dedicated to improving the lives of 8


### Americans through progressive ideas and action. 9



### I'm here today to comme nd the U.S. 10


### Environmental Protection Agency for its proposed 11



### Clean Power Plan. For too long power plants have 12


### been able to spew carbon pollution into our air 13


### without limits; without regard to the harm that 14


### the pollution is doing and will do. 15



### The science i s absolutely clear that we 16


### need to cut our carbon pollution. The Clean 17


### Power Plan is an essential step in that 18


### direction. By setting standards for existing 19


### power plants, EPA's proposed rule will not only 20


### cut pollution, will also help establish the 21



### United States as a global leader in the fight to 22

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### address climate change, save American families 1


### money on their energy bills, improve the nation's 2


### health, and help bring some clarity to a rapidly 3


### changing energy sector. 4


### Numerous scientific reports have sounded 5



### th e alarm on climate change. The National 6


### Climate Assessment released earlier this year is 7



### one of the most recent and most thorough 8


### scientific evaluations of the climate change 9



### threat. 10


### It finds that while climate change was 11



### once considered an issue for our distant future, 12


### it has moved firmly into the present. The 13


### impacts of climate change are being felt by real 14


### people from Louisiana to Alaska, and from Vermont 15


### to Washington. 16



### The report concludes, however, that the 17


### future severity of climate change is yet to be 18



### determined. It states that the amount of future 19


### climate change will still largely be determined 20


### by the choices society makes about pollution. 21


### Lower emissions of carbon pollution mean less 22

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### future warming and less severe impacts. Higher 1



### emissions mean more warming and more severe 2


### impacts. 3


### A new White House report released just 4


### this morning explains how delaying action to 5


### address climate change could levy a heavy cost 6


### upon the nation. Not only will we suffer 7


### increased damages associated with the impact s of 8


### unchecked climate change, we'll also bear more 9


### expensive mitigation costs as the needed rate and 10


### amount of reduction steepen with each year of 11


### delayed action. 12


### This morning I want to make three several 13


### key points about EPA's proposal. First, although 14


### some are irresponsibly urging the EPA to allow 15


### big industrial facilities to continue to pollute 16


### with impunity, the Agency must stay committed to 17


### its missing. Protecting our children from carbon 18


### pollution is your legal duty, and it's everyone's 19


### moral oblig ation. 20


### Second, the EPA will have the opportunity 21


### to strengthen this proposal before it is 22

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### finalized next year. We urge the Agency to do 1



### so. Some of the lowest costs emissions 2


### reductions available are in our electricity 3



### system, and we should do all we can to take 4



### advantage of them. 5



### For example, the Clean Power Plan should 6


### recognize the huge potential of energy efficiency 7



### and the remarkable demonstrated growth rate of 8


### renewable energy in determining the possible 9



### emissions reductions. 10


### Finally, we should reco gnize that 11


### electricity utilities are typically sophisticated 12


### entities that can innovate and respond to new 13


### policy direction. For years they have understood 14



### climate science and have known that action to 15



### address climate change would be inevitable. In 16



### fact utilities have supported carbon taxes, cap 17



### and trade proposals, and clean energy standards. 18


### For this reason, allowing flexibility in 19


### achieving the goals can have significant benefits 20


### to stakeholders. However, the final plan must be 21


### crafted in a way that ensures environmental 22

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### results, marrying flexibility with 1


### accountability. 2


### And because an effective response to 3


### climate change may require additional emissions 4


### reductions from the power sector, EPA should be 5


### careful not to create the expectation that the 6



### Cle an Power Plan's targets are all that can be 7


### asked of the electricity utilities. 8


### Former Treasury Secretary, Robert Rubin 9


### and Hank Paulson recently agreed that climate 10


### change poses a huge risk to the nation's economy. 11



### Fortunately , it's not too late to addre ss this 12


### risk. EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan is an 13


### essential step to curing our pollution and 14


### managing our risk. 15


### The Center for American Progress supports 16


### the proposal and encourages EPA to examine 17


### opportunities to realize even greater emissions 18



### reductio ns before finalizing the plan next year. 19


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify. 20



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much. 21


### Next speaker is Fred Krupp. And with him, 22

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### Linds ay Moseley

- Alexander. 1


### I'm going to ask you to grab that mic. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MR. KRU PP: Good morning. 4


### MR. POWERS: Good morning. 5



### MR. KRUPP: And thank you for the 6


### opportunity to testify on behalf of the 7


### President's Clean Power Plan. I am Fred Krupp, 8



### President of the Environmental Defense Fund, a 9


### national organization that links science, 10


### economics, law and private sector partnerships to 11


### solve our most serious environmental problems. 12


### Right now there are no limits on carbon 13


### pollution from power plants, and that simply is 14



### unacceptable. On behalf of our 800,000 members 15



### and activists, I am he re today to strongly 16


### support action to finally limit carbon pollution 17



### from power plants. But even more I'm here on 18



### behalf of the hundreds of millions of Americans 19



### who will benefit from the Clean Power Plan, for 20



### the millions of kids who will have fewer ast hma 21


### attacks in the future, including the severely 22

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### impacted communities of Latino children who are 1


### 40 percent more likely to suffer from attacks, 2


### for the workers who will find jobs in the growing 3


### industries like wind, solar, and energy 4


### efficiency, for the r ate payers who will see 5


### their electricity bills go down as we modernize 6


### the way we create and consume electricity. And 7


### for all those who will be protected from the most 8


### damaging impacts of climate change. For our 9


### children and grandchildren who will know that our 10


### generation cared enough to leave them a safer 11



### healthier world. 12


### I'm particularly enthusiastic that the 13


### rule you were considering sets national 14



### standards, but leaves states freedom to design 15


### the approach that best fits their circumstances, 16



### and encou rages investors, inventers, and 17


### entrepreneurs to find new ways to cut pollution. 18


### And it gives industry flexibility to find the 19


### most efficient path to a clean future. 20



### We believe the Clean Power Plan is an 21


### historic step forward for American and the world. 22

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### We also know that these standards can and need to 1


### deliver deeper pollution reductions more rapidly 2



### than proposed. There also needs to be a clear 3


### pathway to update the standards over time to 4


### account for advances in technology and 5


### improvements in the best s ystems for emissions 6



### reductions. 7


### We know that transition to clean energy 8


### is not only possible, it's affordable. We are 9


### already halfway to achieving the goal that you 10



### have set for 2030. And the cost of renewable 11


### energy has dropped dramatically in recent y ears. 12


### For instance, the price of solar panels 13


### has been cut 75 percent since 2008, and the U.S. 14


### added more solar capacity in the past 18 months 15


### than in the previous 30 years combined. This 16


### means we can set even more ambitious goals for 17


### clean energy. This rule helps put us on a path 18


### to more customer choice on energy. 19



### Now we've heard from customers who have 20


### freed themselves from utility bills because they 21


### are making their own clean energy. But we've 22

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### seen efforts by some to undermine progress 1



### towards clean e nergy, pushing states to limit 2


### consumer access to clean energy sources like 3


### solar. The interest groups who oppose this plan, 4


### who profit from the way things are done now, have 5


### certainly done their best to scare the public. 6


### They do it every time we try to make our air 7


### cleaner. But in every case their predictions 8



### have been flat wrong. 9



### The costs have been far lower and the 10


### benefits far greater than they've claimed. In 11


### fact every time EPA has used the Clean Air Act to 12


### limit air pollution it's ended up boosti ng our 13


### economy. Overall the benefits have outweighed 14



### the cost by 30 to one. 15


### And every past rule has saved lives; tens 16



### of thousands of lives. 17


### Hiding from challenges is not what 18


### Americans do. And it is certainly the wrong path 19


### for us and for generations t o come. The bottom 20


### line is that we cannot continue down the path of 21


### unlimited pollution. Indeed science demands that 22

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### this proposal be only the first step in 1


### addressing carbon pollution from the largest 2


### source in our country. 3


### This new plan is moderate, fl exible, and 4


### necessary. I hope all of us, liberals and 5


### conservatives, republicans and democrats, 6


### business people and environmentalists can work 7


### together to adopt the strong limit on carbon 8


### pollution and move our nation forward to a clean 9



### and prosperous fut ure. Thank you. 10



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much

. 11


### MS. MOSELEY ALEXANDER: Good morning. I'm 12


### Lindsay Moseley

- Alexander, Assistant Vice 13


### President and Director of the American Lung 14


### Association's Healthy Air Campaign. 15


### I appreciate very much the opportunity t o 16


### speak with you today to support EPA's proposal to 17


### limit carbon pollution from existing power 18



### plants. 19


### The American Lung Association is 20


### committed to fighting carbon pollution because it 21


### saves lives and improves lung health, which is 22

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### our mission. Even with the steps that are in 1


### place to reduce air pollution, evidence warns 2


### that higher temperatures due to carbon pollution 3


### and climate change increase the risk of unhealthy 4


### air in large parts of the United States because 5



### heat enhances conditions for ozone and 6



### p articulate matter. 7


### We've come a long way in the fight to 8


### reduce air pollution, thanks in large part to the 9


### work of this Agency. But it's clear that we 10


### still have a long way to go to ensure that the 11


### air we breathe doesn’t' make people sick or kill 12



### them. A nd we certainly don't want to see it get 13


### worse due to climate change. 14


### For those who live with chronic lung 15


### diseases, ozone and particulate matter can cause 16


### difficulty breathing, trigger asthma attacks, and 17


### premature death, and have been linked to low 18



### birth weight in newborns. 19



### Children are vulnerable because their 20


### airways are still developing. Even healthy 21


### children who grow up where ozone levels are high 22

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### may be at greater risk for lung diseases later in 1



### life. 2



### Particulate matter is linked to heart 3



### attacks an d strokes, and we now know that 4


### particulate matter also causes lung cancer, which 5



### is the number one cancer killer in women. 6


### In addition to worsened air quality the 7


### recent national climate assessment highlights 8


### other critical health impacts from climate cha nge 9


### that are being felt across the nation today, 10


### including heat waves, wildfires, drought, 11


### excessive precipitation, flooding, dust storms, 12



### and more. 13


### All of these events have very serious 14


### public health consequences that we cannot afford 15


### to ignore. Reducing carbon pollution from power 16


### plants is a vital step in the right direction. 17



### The American Lung Association also celebrates the 18


### good news that taking steps to reduce carbon 19


### pollution from existing power plants will also 20


### cut other life threatening air pollut ants 21


### including nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, and 22

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### mercury. 1



### This is a win/win for the American 2



### people. Why? Let's look at what these 3


### pollutants do. Nitrogen oxides irritate the 4


### lungs, trigger asthma attacks, and increase the 5



### risk of infections. Sulf ur dioxide triggers 6



### asthma attacks and increases risk of 7


### hospitalizations and emergency room visits. 8



### These pollutants are also known as 9


### precursors to ozone and particulate matter 10


### previously discussed. And everyone knows that 11


### mercury is a dangerous neuro toxin. It is vital 12


### that EPA both calculate and inform the public of 13


### these important lifesaving co

- benefits of 14


### reducing carbon pollution from power plants. So 15


### thank you for doing so. 16


### We would like to offer a few suggestions 17


### for improving the plan and maxi mizing health 18


### protections. To adequately protect public health 19


### we need greater reductions in carbon pollution 20


### and in the other pollutants than what EPA has 21


### outlined in this proposal. The American Lung 22

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### Association strongly urges EPA to strengthen 1



### state em ission reduction targets, providing 2


### greater immediate and long term public health 3



### benefits. 4


### We also urge EPA to shorten the timeframe 5


### for compliance to five years without setting 6



### weaker standards to accommodate a shorter 7



### timeframe. 8


### The American Lung Associ ation does not 9


### support bio

- mass combustion for electricity 10


### production. EPA should revise the plan to 11



### exclude bio

- mass combustion as an acceptable 12


### alternative energy source. 13



### EPA must ensure that the Clean Power Plan 14


### provides real relief to communities loca ted near 15


### power plants who have suffered the impacts of 16


### power plant pollution for decades. 17


### And finally we urge EPA to quickly and 18


### clearly spell out the timing and process for how 19


### to enforce federal plan for states that fail to 20


### meet the requirements. We wil l submit more 21


### detailed technical comments separately to EPA. 22

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### And thank you again for the opportunity to speak 1



### today. 2



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much. 3


### The next panel is Cindy Parker and Matt Schlapp. 4


### Is Cindy Parker present? No. Okay. In 5



### that c ase Pamela Ellis will be I guess, the other 6


### part of this panel. 7


### All right. You may get a panel by 8


### yourself. That does not mean you get 10 minutes. 9



### But

-- 10


### MR. SCHLAPP: I promise to not take it 11


### personally that nobody wants to sit by me. 12



### Thank you for g iving me the opportunity 13


### to speak to you for a few minutes today. My name 14


### is Matt Schlapp and I am Chairman of the American 15



### Conservative Union, the ACU. 16


### The ACU is our country's oldest and 17


### largest grass roots conservative organization, 18



### and we are deeply c oncerned about EPA's proposed 19



### carbon scheme. 20


### ACU believes that EPA's proposal is 21


### flawed for a wide range of reasons, many of which 22

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### have been discussed by other speakers. Actually, 1



### not that many speakers. 2


### In particular, we believe that the 3


### proposal is yet another example of executive 4


### overreach and a violation of the principles of 5


### cooperative federalism. 6


### EPA's proposal is an unacceptable example 7



### of executive overreach. Issues such as climate 8


### change policy involve complicated issues that 9



### touch on all aspec ts of our economy and lives. 10



### Decisions how and whether to create laws of this 11


### breadth should be made by our representative 12



### branches of government, not by unelected Federal 13


### Agency officials. 14


### In fact the only reason this proposal is 15


### under consideration by E PA is because attempts to 16



### reshape our energy sector and economy through 17


### legislation have failed. The President is 18


### unabashedly attempting to circumvent the will of 19


### the people and Congress through regulatory fiat, 20


### proposing hundreds of pages of new regulati ons 21


### based on a provision in the Clean Air Act that 22

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### has never been used for a regulatory approach 1



### this broad. 2


### And while ACU appreciates this chance to 3


### speak these public sessions are a poor substitute 4


### for the democratic deliberation and debate by 5



### elected officials in the states and in Congress. 6


### The bottom line is that if the goal is to 7


### make sound policy, our democratic system is the 8


### right tool to use, not bureaucratic fiat. 9



### Overall ACU shares Justice Scalia's 10



### recent statement that EPA rules should be vie wed 11


### with skepticism when the agency, quote, 12


### "Discovers in a long extant statute an unheralded 13


### power to regulate, quote, a significant portion 14


### of the American economy." Close quote. 15


### This proposal by EPA is just such a rule. 16


### Converting 300 words of statuto ry language into 17


### hundreds of pages of regulatory mandates touching 18


### on every aspect of the modern economy. This 19


### proposal should be rejected because it turns the 20


### proper relationship between Congress and the 21


### executive agencies on its head, making EPA more 22

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### po werful than Congress. And the tool that the 1


### President can use to bypass the representative 2



### branch of our government. This is undemocratic, 3



### unlawful, and unacceptable. 4


### The EPA proposal is also insupportable 5



### because it violates the basic tenants of 6



### coopera tive federalism. Our Constitution 7


### entrusts states with most topics, and states 8


### should be able to make policies regarding 9


### electricity generation and efficiency without 10


### being secon d guessed by the EPA. 11


### Although EPA and supporters of this 12



### proposal have toute d its flexibility, this 13


### proposal makes state government subservient to 14


### the EPA, with states having to seek EPA approval 15


### for their policies and topics ranging from how 16


### electricity is generated to state tax policies 17



### related to energy, to how companies and 18



### ho useholds use electricity. 19


### Even more disturbing at recent testimony 20


### before Congress, EPA Assistant Administrator, 21


### Janet McCabe confirmed that state legislators 22

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### will have to obtain EPA sign

- off on legislation 1


### that they adopt through normal democratic means. 2


### Making state legislators accountable to 3


### EPA for every aspect of energy and electricity 4


### policy makes a mockery of the founders' 5


### conception of federalism. To serve as 6



### lab or atories of democracies as our founders 7


### envisioned, states must be free to develop 8



### p olicies appropriate for their people without 9


### always having to ask EPA's permission. 10


### Giving states rigid carbon targets and 11


### telling them to submit their plans for reaching 12


### those targets is not cooperative and it is not 13



### federalism. It is a form of central ized energy 14


### planning that is inconsistent with our Federal 15


### system and should be rejected. 16


### EPA has not been given the power, and 17


### does not have the expertise to engage in the type 18


### of centralized economic and energy planning that 19


### this proposal represents. If adopted ACU fears 20


### that this proposal will deliver no real benefits 21


### to health or the economy and will further erode 22

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### the proper relationship between the executive and 1


### legislative branches, and the states and the 2



### Federal Government. 3



### EPA should withdraw thi s proposal and 4


### cease trying to find ways to use limited grants 5


### of authority as tools to circumvent congress and 6



### control state governments. Thank you very much. 7


### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Next pane is 8



### Pamela Ellis, one more time, and

-- you're here. 9



### And Any a and Zaporah Ellis. 10


### Good morning. 11


### MS. P. ELLIS: Good morning. Girls, go 12



### ahead. 13


### MS. A. ELLIS: My name is Anya Ellis, and 14


### I'm here today with my twin sister, Zaporah. 15



### MS. Z. ELLIS: Hi. 16



### MS. A. ELLIS: We came today to talk 17


### about the preconception s that students have 18


### towards the environment. Kids today think it's a 19


### joking matter. 20



### MS. Z. ELLIS: Yeah. While on the school 21


### bus during the school year, I heard one kid say, 22

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### "Two planets meet. The first one asks, how are 1



### you? Not so well says the se cond one. Then the 2



### first one reassures him, oh

-- " 3


### MS. A. ELLIS: Okay. This is how the 4


### joke goes. The first one asks, how are you. The 5



### second planet goes, not so well. I have the 6


### homosapi e ns. The first one reassures him, 7


### saying, I have them too. I t doesn't last long. 8


### Hehehe. Anyway. That's how the joke goes. 9


### MS. Z. ELLIS: Yeah, and the point was, I 10


### think the fact that people are joking about it 11


### sort of indicates that students today don't think 12



### we like need to create sustainable communities. 13



### M S. A. ELLIS: I agree. There has been a 14


### growing number of disregard to the environment 15


### because adults don't show examples, positive 16



### examples, for us to look up to. 17



### MS. Z. ELLIS: Yeah. So many of us are 18


### starting to suffer from allergies, and in my AP 19



### Bio logy class I learned that studies show that 20


### air pollution is making kids unhealthy. 21



### MS. A. ELLIS: I don't think we need to 22

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### be in AP Bio to understand that kids these days 1


### are having more allergies than past generations 2



### before them. 3



### MS. Z. ELLIS: We n eed adults around us 4



### to push themselves and try and tell people about 5


### this problem so that the kids will also start 6


### taking it seriously. 7



### MS. A. ELLIS: I think that too. I 8


### expect our legis l ators to continue to excel in 9


### protecting our environment. I put emphasis on 10


### our environment, people. Just to tell you. And 11



### to pass more vigorous standards than they have 12



### before. 13



### MS. Z. ELLIS: Exactly. The Clean Power 14



### Plan is that. It enforces better standards and 15


### as our nation learns, excelling isn't about doin g 16


### the standards of yesterday, but pushing the 17


### boundaries for newer, greater standards today. 18



### MS. A. ELLIS: Yes. Thank you. 19



### MS. P. ELLIS: I am the mother of these 20


### beautiful young women, and I'd like to thank the 21


### honorable panel members, the Sierra Club 22

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### supporters, and my fellow Americans for this 1


### opportunity to come. 2


### My name is Dr. Pamela Sanders

- Ellis, and 3



### we live in the Eastern Panhandle of West 4


### Virginia. I have worked as a chemist, and now I 5



### am in education research and have written the 6



### book, Clima te Controversy 2013, for secondary 7


### students. And a general audience with three of 8


### our nation's top climate scientists, George 9



### Woodwell, John Abraham, and Michael McCracken. 10


### As a youth growing up in the capital city 11



### of Charleston , West Virginia, I recall happy days 12


### of playing with friends in the woods, filled with 13


### healthy streams on the mountains where I lived. 14


### The water was filled with aquatic life, turtles, 15


### frogs, fish, and a variety of plant life. 16


### It was there that I first developed my 17


### understanding o f an interdepen dence with the 18


### Earth and community. Unfortunately I was also 19



### aware and witnessed firsthand air and water 20


### pollution in the Kanawha Valley, and relentless 21


### examples of strip mining and black lung disease 22

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### cases in West Virginia, affecting my fr iends and 1


### neighbors with anthropogenic causes despite the 2



### EPA's best efforts. 3


### While in high school my first job was 4



### with Union Carbide Chemicals in Institute , West 5


### Virginia where I worked as an industrial 6


### hygienist assistant during the summer of my 7


### junior year. I was given an ozone analyzer by 8


### company officials, and OSHA regulations to read. 9


### This involved spending considerable time 10


### taking air quality samples in the neighborhoods 11


### near the plant site. I went on to major in 12


### chemistry and later completed do ctoral work in 13


### the field of higher education. So from these 14


### experiences I understood both the important roles 15


### of environmental protection and economic 16


### employment opportunity. 17


### Joining today with concerned citizens 18



### across the country I ask the EPA of the Un ited 19


### States of America to boldly lead the revelation 20


### and revolution necessary that will finally put us 21


### on a sustainable path to a hopeful climate 22

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### future. 1


### By working closely with the Occupational 2


### Safety and Health Administration, the EPA has a 3


### congressiona l mandate to provide regulations 4


### which are strictly enforced with inspections, 5


### investigations, and legal actions extending to 6


### the very corporate managers in industry who fail 7



### to meet the adequate standards that protect our 8



### health and environment. 9



### It's not surprising that I am of firm 10


### conviction that we must take the strongest stand 11


### possible on the side of science and 12


### accountability by protecting our climate 13


### disruption outcome. Our leading climate 14



### scientists and environmentalists are now our 15



### staunchest poli tical activists, including Jim 16


### Hansen from NASA and Bill McKibben from 350.org 17


### who I join in shouts that 80 to 90 percent 18


### reductions of fossil fuel usage and carbon 19



### emissions are the targets most warranted instead 20


### of the current modest 30 percent reduction s 21



### proposed by 2030. 22

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### Political debates of fossil fuel 1


### dependency continue unabated without adequate 2


### energy installations of innovative renewables. A 3



### divestment from fossil fuel and reinvestment in 4


### renewable energy sources and infrastructure is 5



### the transiti on that the EPA needs to encourage 6



### for all Americans to do the same. 7


### We pledge our nonpartisan support for the 8


### economic opportunity of clean air technologies. 9


### And we are with the EPA every step of the way 10


### towards this goal. Your firm commitment and 11



### eff ort toward U.S. global leadership and 12


### implementation of a comprehensive climate change 13


### carbon emission reduction plan for generations to 14


### come are ultimately the prerequisites for 15



### civilization as we have known it. 16


### I want to believe that every EPA employee 17



### w ill make sure that this job gets done. Thank 18



### you. 19



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much for all 20



### three of you. 21


### Next panel is Amanda Gardner and Graham 22

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### Smith

- White. And on deck is Jeff Holmstead and 1


### Mary Martin. 2


### Would you hold the mic just a little 3



### closer to you? No, right there in front of you. 4



### Thanks. 5


### MS. GARDNER: My name is Amanda Gardner. 6


### I am representing the West Virginia Sierra Club 7



### Chapter, co

- chair of the Energy Efficiency 8


### Campaign Team. 9


### I have a double major in commercial 10



### recreation and tourism, as well as environmental 11


### sustainability. I am a member of the 12


### International Eco Tourism Society, as well as 13


### attending the International Eco Tourism and 14



### Sustainable Tourism Conference. 15


### Eco tourism is responsible travel to 16



### natural areas that conserve the e nvironment and 17


### improves the wellbeing of local people, socially, 18


### physically, and economically. 19


### Yesterday the EPA released an article in 20


### the Navajo Generating Station, which is located 21


### 20 miles from the Grand Canyon. It's a 2,250 22

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### megawatt coal fired plan t within the Navajo 1



### Nation. 2


### As stated in yesterday's article the 3


### Grand Canyon attracts more than 4.4 million 4


### people and provides 7,400 jobs. And those 4.4 5


### million people spend about $467 million. 6


### The EPA plans to reduce emissions by 80 7



### percent . This is said to reduce the visual 8


### impairment by 73 percent. As stated in 9


### yesterday's article the EPA regional 10



### administrator for Pacific Southwest said, this 11


### flexible and practical solution will also 12


### generate critical tribal revenues, improve public 13


### health, provi de long

- term certainty to power and 14


### water utilities, and set the stage for a 15



### transition to a clean future. 16



### So the Clean Power Plan only makes sense. 17


### You said so yourself. 18



### MR. SMITH

- WHITE: Thank you for taking 19


### the time to listen to the public with these 20


### meetings. My name is Graham Smith

- White, and I 21


### am here before you today in a variety of roles, 22

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### as an artist, as a leader in West Virginia 1


### communities concerned with energy and the 2


### environment, as a real world example, and most 3


### importantly as a supporter of the Clean Power 4



### Plan. 5


### Through my professional music career I 6


### have firsthand experience evaluating the carbon 7


### emissions of my activities. I power my recording 8


### equipment with solar energy and have taken steps 9


### to be as efficient with my energy needs and u sage 10



### as I can. 11


### I have ridden my bicycle from West 12


### Virginia to perform here in D.C. and at Wolftrap 13



### National Park. I have performed and recorded at 14


### mountaintop removal sites, pristine highland 15


### streams, national parks, and nature preserves. 16



### I have, through my creative practice, 17


### developed an understanding of the nature and 18


### level of attention involved in conscious changes 19


### in energy production. 20


### It is not simple, but it is not hard. 21



### Clean renewable energy sources provide reliable 22

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### and effective every time I u se them. Any protest 1


### to the difficulty of acting in a conscious and 2


### intentional manner regarding energy production 3


### is, in my experience, borne of laziness and 4


### disregard for consequence. And I urge the EPA 5


### not to accept laziness as a reason for the 6



### produc tion of power to be exempted, from acting 7


### responsibly and respectfully with regards to the 8


### pollution of our air. 9


### The targets proposed in the Clean Power 10



### Plan are reasonable and achievable. As a 11


### community leader in West Virginia I am involved 12


### in a myriad o f endeavors related to energy use 13


### and production in the state. 14



### As has already been noted by the EPA, 15


### efforts are already underway to improve the 16


### efficiency of buildings in the public and private 17


### realm. There is strong interest in renewable 18



### energy source s despite a glaring lack of support 19


### from public entities and utilities. There is so 20



### much interest that we have taken matters into our 21


### own hands with the development of innovative 22

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### community approaches, to financing, including 1


### incentivized demand side respo nse and cooperative 2


### solar purchasing groups. 3


### The benefits of clean renewable energy 4


### sources and genuine energy efficiency programs 5



### are many. Resilient stable local electricity 6


### grids serve the needs of communities in remote, 7



### wild, and wonderful reaches of the state. 8



### In these areas power outages are frequent 9


### and impact such diverse areas as food pantries, 10


### water supplies, and medical needs. 11


### Distributed energy generation is uniquely 12


### suited as an ideal power source for many 13


### residents of West Virginia. In add ition the 14


### pollution created by carbon intensive energy 15


### sources impacts the health of rural and urban 16


### communities from all stages from extraction to 17


### production. 18


### The mines poison water and ecosystems, 19


### and the smoke stacks spew respiratory illness on 20



### young and old alike. Clean emission free energy 21



### serves to support the overall wellness of 22

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### communities throughout West Virginia and the rest 1


### of the nation through economic befits as well. 2


### Renewable energy and energy efficiency 3


### are growing areas of employment, su rpassing 4


### fossil fuels and continuing to increase faster 5


### than the national average. 6


### I have one of these jobs created by the 7



### renewable energy adaption . I work for a company 8


### based in West Virginia selling solar 9


### installations across the country. I spend my day 10


### investigating the installation of clean energy 11


### for homes and businesses. This experience has 12


### shown me that leadership and adoption is in the 13


### hands of the states. They are the leaders in the 14


### programs, which lead to the adoption by the 15


### public, as well as utilities. 16



### There are many models to encourage 17


### renewable energy adoption to meet emission 18


### requirements and it is a matter of will that they 19


### are instituted. Thank you. 20



### MR. POWERS: Thank you both very much. 21


### Jeff Holmstead and Mary Martin. 22

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### And on deck is Congressman Eshoo. 1


### MR. HOLMSTEAD: Hello. My name is Jeff 2


### Holmstead and I'm testifying today on behalf of 3


### the Electricity Reliability Coordinating Council. 4


### I'm going to go off script so I'll start my timer 5



### to make sure I don't use up more time than 6



### n ecessary. 7


### I just, having been here most of the 8


### morning, I want to make kind of three basic 9


### points. First, I do think it is important that 10


### we reduce greenhouse gas emissions. But I think 11



### we also need to be honest about what that means. 12



### There is no free l unch. And it will increase the 13


### cost of power, and we just need to be honest with 14


### each other about that. There certainly will be 15


### jobs created in renewable energy sectors and 16


### other places, but there will be jobs lost in 17


### other sectors. And most importantly we increase 18


### the cost of electricity to everybody. 19


### We just need to decide as a society how 20


### much we want to pay for that. So my point, 21



### number one is I think we need to be honest. 22

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### The second thing is, I believe that this 1


### proposal is actually like

-- well, a lmost 2


### certainly to delay any serious effort to reduce 3


### greenhouse gas emissions in the United States and 4



### I say that for three reasons. 5


### First of all the Supreme Court has made 6


### it quite clear that EPA does have authority to 7


### regulate Co2 emissions and greenhou se gas 8



### emissions under the Clean Air Act. But the 9


### Supreme Court has not given EPA a roving mandate 10



### to do whatever it thinks best. 11



### In a recent case the Supreme Court again 12


### reminded EPA that anything it does to reduce 13


### greenhouse gases must fit within the statutory 14



### structure. 15


### The provision that EPA is now relying on 16


### is very clearly designed to get individual plants 17


### to reduce their emission rates. That's the way 18


### it's been used for almost 40 years. That's the 19



### only way to read the statute. 20


### And by adoptin g this very aggressive and 21


### expansive interpretation of its own power the 22

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### courts are almost certainly likely to strike that 1


### down. So people will spend an enormous amount of 2


### time and effort trying to figure out and comment 3


### on this proposal. And at the end of the day it 4


### is highly unlikely that it will ever be 5


### implemented. 6



### That's bad for a couple of reasons. One, 7


### the only effective way, the only legally 8


### plausible way to deal with this is through new 9


### legislation, and right now many people who are 10


### supportive o f this proposal are not engaged in 11


### that discussion at all. And so this proposal as 12


### it plays out over several years through the 13


### courts and elsewhere will effectively ensure that 14


### there's no legislative discussion about the 15


### things that we ought to be doing. 16


### And then finally, EPA I'm afraid, has 17


### become so distracted by the notion that it can 18


### fundamentally change the electricity system in 19



### all 50 states, or at least 49 states, that it 20



### still hasn't done the technical work that will be 21



### necessary to develop legally sound regulations to 22

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### reduce carbon emissions from existing power 1


### plants. Unfortunately there's not that kind of 2


### analysis in this rule, even with building block 3



### no. 1. 4



### So what I would encourage EPA to do at 5


### the very least, is to actually do the technica l 6



### work that is necessary to determine for different 7


### sizes and types of plants, what is the carbon 8


### emission rate that can reasonably be achieved as 9


### opposed to simply assuming that everybody can 10


### achieve a six percent reduction. 11



### I am also concerned, and I thi nk we 12


### should all be concerned about the reliability 13


### risks that are created by the proposal. It does 14


### need to be carefully analyzed before anything 15


### like this is adopted. EPA's proposal clearly 16


### increases the risk that our electricity supply 17



### will be less rel iable. 18


### I think even EPA's own analysis suggests 19


### that roughly a third of the generation fleet will 20



### be retired between 2020 and 2030. These plants 21


### current provide electricity that sustain our 22

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### economy, and when they are shuttered our 1


### electricity supply will be dependent much more on 2



### EPA's predictions about energy efficiency and the 3


### ability to construct new generating sources, but 4


### also natural gas pipelines and transmission 5



### lines. 6



### And as far as I can tell EPA has not made 7


### any serious attempt to consider the pr actical and 8


### legal difficulty of getting all the approvals 9


### necessary to build not only new power plants, but 10


### also the transmission lines and pipelines that 11


### will be necessary for those plants. 12


### And obviously the big concern is without 13



### the transmission lines and the pipelines and the 14


### new generating facilities, another polar vortex 15



### or heat wave may expose people who are most 16



### vulnerable to energy shortages and blackouts. 17



### EPA claims that it has looked at the 18


### reliability impacts. But EPA doesn't have 19


### expertise in this area, and as far as I can tell 20



### there has been no consultation between EPA and 21


### those who really are responsible for reliability, 22

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### especially those at FERC. 1


### So in closing I again urge everyone in 2


### this room to just be honest about what it will 3



### take to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and 4


### hopefully to get on with the hard work that needs 5


### to be done to do something productive in 6


### Congress, and even at EPA by using the authority 7



### it has to reduce carbon emissions from individual 8



### power plants. Thank you. 9



### MS . MARTIN: Good morning. My name is 10


### Mary Martin. I'm here on behalf of the U.S. 11



### Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber is the world's 12


### largest business federation representing the 13



### interests of more than 3 million businesses of 14


### all sizes, sectors, and regions, as well as state 15


### and local chambers and industry associations. 16



### The Chamber and its members continue to 17


### review and analyze the EPA's voluminous proposal 18


### to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from 19


### existing electric generating units under Section 20



### 111D of the Clean Air Act. The Chamber certainly 21


### has concerns about the impact of the proposed 22

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### regulation on the affordability and reliability 1


### of electricity in this country, the EPA's 2


### authority to promulgate such a regulation and the 3


### feasibility and achievability o f the regulation. 4


### With the limited time afforded today, 5


### however, I'm going to focus on a few key concerns 6


### that the Chamber has with the rulemaking process 7



### associated with this proposed regulation. 8



### First, the Chamber believes that the EPA 9


### is failing to sati sfy its statutory obligations 10


### under the Regulatory Flexibility Act by not 11


### convening a small business advocacy review panel 12


### for this proposed regulation. Taking a myopic 13


### view the EPA claims in the proposal that the 14


### quote, "Emissions guidelines established under 15


### Clean Air Act, Section 111D, do not impose any 16


### requirements on regulated entities and thus will 17


### not have a significant economic impact upon a 18



### substantial number of small entities." 19


### A proposed regulation like the EPA's 20



### Clean Power Plan is tailor made for an RFA 21


### analysis. As EPA itself admits electricity 22

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### prices, which are one of the largest concerns of 1


### small businesses will go up as a result of this 2



### proposal. In fact energy costs are one of the 3


### top three business expenses for 35 percent of 4



### small busin esses. 5


### In addition to energy costs there is a 6


### possibility that small businesses could be called 7


### upon to shoulder some of the compliance burden 8


### for this proposal. If individual states choose 9


### to go beyond EGUs to achieve emissions reductions 10



### under the pro posal, small businesses, 11


### particularly industrial and manufacturing 12


### facilities, could be faced with the expenses 13


### associated with reducing emissions. 14



### These are all issues that the EPA should 15


### be exploring and analyzing through the RFA, and a 16



### small business advocacy review panel. 17



### Second, the Chamber has serious concerns 18


### about the timeline that the EPA is imposing in 19


### this rulemaking process, based solely upon the 20


### magnitude and breadth of the proposed regulation, 21


### the comment period should be extended by at leas t 22

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### 60 days. 1


### Additionally , there should be more time 2


### in the process for states to understand the 3


### complexities of an extremely technical rule that 4


### goes beyond traditional environmental regulation 5



### and delves into the world of energy generation 6



### and distribution

. 7


### One suggestion is that the EPA sponsor 8


### technical workshops for the states in order to 9


### address their questions about the realities of 10


### implementing the proposed rule. The states also 11


### should be given more time to develop and submit 12


### their state implementati on plans. According to 13



### the Environmental Council of States, states 14


### implement approximately 96 percent of all 15


### delegated federal environmental programs. 16


### Against that backdrop the amount of money 17



### awarded to states by the Federal Government has 18



### been reduced f rom $5 billion in fiscal year 2010, 19


### to $3.6 billion in fiscal year 2013. This means 20


### that states are being asked to do more and more 21



### with fewer and fewer resources when it comes to 22

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### federal environmental programs like the Clean 1



### Power Plan. 2



### We, the regulat ed community recognize and 3


### appreciate the fact that states are carrying such 4


### a huge burden and doing so with shrinking 5



### resources. The EPA should make a similar 6


### recognition and at least give states more time to 7


### work with key stakeholders like the business 8


### community and tribes to develop state 9


### implementation plans for this proposal. 10


### Third, the EPA's cost benefit analysis 11


### for this proposed regulation is troublesome. The 12


### EPA continues to justify a regulation with 13


### benefits that are derived not from the pollu tant 14


### that EPA cites as the justification for 15


### promulgating the regulation, but from pollutants 16


### incidentally produced by the primary regulatory 17


### requirements. 18


### For example, under the state compliance 19


### approach, the EPA estimates that the climate 20



### benefits in 202 0 are expected to be approximately 21


### $18 billion, while the health co

- benefits are 22

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### estimated to be $17 to $40 billion. 1


### The EPA's cost benefit analysis is also 2


### problematic because it is based in part upon 3



### social costs of carbon estimates which have not 4



### gone through a rulemaking process or been subject 5


### to the rigors of notice , public comment, and peer 6



### review. 7


### Finally, the EPA persists in its failure 8


### to consider in any significant way the employment 9


### impacts of Clean Air Act regulations like this 10



### one. The agen cy did not use a whole economy 11


### modeling approach here, which would have captured 12


### a much more accurate picture of the likely job 13


### losses from this proposal. 14



### The EPA also continues to avoid 15


### undertaking an employment analysis under Section 16



### 321A of the Clean A ir Act, which requires the 17


### continuous review of potential job losses and 18


### shifts in employment due to the implementation of 19



### the act. 20



### These are but a few of the Chamber's 21



### concerns with the EPA's proposed clean power 22

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### plan. We hope that the EPA will give fu ll and 1


### thoughtful consideration to these concerns and 2


### suggestions. Thank you for your time today. 3



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. Next 4


### panel is Congresswoman Eshoo and S. Dear Schramm

5



### Satayathun. And on deck, while they're getting 6



### set, is John Novak a nd Amanda Jo Divita. 7


### I note for people, I mentioned this 8



### before; we will take a break at noon. So that 9


### gives us almost half an hour. So we'll hear from 10


### a number of other speakers until then and then 11


### give everybody a break for an hour. 12



### Congresswoman. Goo d morning. 13


### MS. ESHOO: Good morning. Thank you very 14


### much. My name is Ana Eshoo and I have the 15


### privilege of representing California's 18th 16


### Congressional District, a very distinguished 17


### district, the home of Silicon Valley, Stamford 18


### University. And I want to thank you, Mr. Powers, 19


### Ms. Stevens, Mr. Bryson, for giving people across 20


### our country the opportunity to comment on the 21



### Clean Power Plan. And I consider it an honor to 22

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### testify in support of the proposal today in this 1


### very beautiful room, which I don't r ecall being 2


### in before, but it's very beautiful. 3



### I think that no matter where we are, 4



### whatever the new sources are of the day, that 5


### there is a story that is informing us of the 6


### effects of climate change, in some way, shape, or 7



### form. Communities across our country, 8



### communities across the world. 9


### We're experiencing the effects daily and 10


### at an accelerating rate. In the United States 11


### we're experiencing the hottest year on record, 12


### the hottest years, plural. Not just singular, 13



### but plural. And the most severe fl oods, 14


### wildfires, and droughts in modern history. 15


### My home state of California is currently 16


### facing an unprecedented drought, which is 17


### threatening the most productive agricultural 18


### valley in the entire world, the San Joaquin 19



### Valley. 20



### We also know that what we humans are 21


### doing is causing this global change. The total 22

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### U.S. carbon emissions per year now are 5.4 1



### billion tons. That's with a B. It takes one's 2


### breath away. And $136 billion was spent , 3


### appropriated by the Congress, we had to, between 4



### 2011 and 2013, for disaster relief. I would 5


### consider that a $400 tax per household per year 6


### for every American. And it will continue, 7



### whether one believes in science or not, in the 8


### House, in the Senate, you still have to go to the 9


### floor and vote for these appropriation s because 10


### there is a demand to help heal and help these 11



### communities recover. 12


### So I'm speaking in support today as a 20 13



### years veteran of House Energy and Commerce 14


### Committee of this major initiative that I think 15


### can make a positive impact and really create a 16


### legacy to change the ominous direction we're 17



### headed in. 18



### Power plants account for 40 percent of 19


### U.S. carbon emissions today. And so to 20


### effectively address climate change we have to 21


### limit the amount of carbon emitted. And by 22

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### reducing the greenhouse gas em issions by 30 1


### percent by 2030, which is in this plan, the power 2


### plan has the potential to yield, I think, untold 3


### technological innovation, and I know that my 4


### district continues not only to be poised, but to 5


### produce them, to improve public health, to 6



### bolste r our economic growth, and most importantly 7



### advance the reversal of these changes that we're 8



### witness to. 9



### The economic case, I think, is 10


### compelling. The EPA's analysis indicates that 11



### the Clean Power Plan will have climate and health 12


### benefits of $55 to $93 billion by 2030. That's a 13



### lot of money. That's even a lot of money when 14



### you're here amidst the federal government. And 15


### the cost, between $7 and $8 billion. 16


### But beyond the plan's benefits on paper, 17


### I think the true benefit is to send a signal to 18



### investor s and the rest of the world that 19


### America's clean energy economy is here to stay. 20


### There is significant job creation that's also 21


### within reach. Today the solar energy employees 22

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### over 140,000 Americans with over half being 1


### installer jobs which cannot be outso urced. So 2



### there's a built

- in wonderful benefit to this. 3


### This industry experienced a 20 percent job growth 4


### in 2013. Ten times the national average. 5


### If we put the Clean Power Plan in place 6


### these homegrown job numbers will continue to go 7



### up. 8



### Now some arg ue that this plan is 9


### government overreach. I hear that daily on a lot 10



### of fronts. In fact the Supreme Court has upheld 11


### the authority of the EPA to regulate carbon 12


### emissions on three separate occasions since 2007. 13


### And before this plan was even released so me 14


### argued it would cost hundreds of thousands of 15


### jobs, result in skyrocketing electricity prices, 16


### and I think they just left out that the sky would 17



### cave in. 18


### But the EPA has found that the plan will 19


### cost modest increases in electricity prices in 20



### the short

- t erm , and over the long run will result 21


### in lower electricity bills for consumers. It 22

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### certainly will result in lower appropriations, 1


### fewer appropriated dollars in supplemental 2


### emergency legislation because of the ravages of 3


### what the emissions are causing. 4



### A nd according to a Washington Post ABC 5



### News poll, 70 percent of Americans support this 6


### plan. So even when consumers are told that their 7


### electricity bills may go up some, they still 8



### believe that this needs to be addressed. 9


### I'll close with this; I have alway s 10


### thought that America is the best idea that was 11



### ever born. And when we look at the pages of 12


### history and see the challenges that we have met 13


### in centuries that have gone before, we have 14


### always been willing to not only take on the 15



### challenge, but to conquer it. I believe we have 16



### the science, I believe we have the will of the 17


### American people, I think that the law is on our 18


### side, and that we have a plan for our future that 19


### is needed and should be adopted. 20


### Thank you for the honor of being able to 21



### present to you today. 22

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### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. 1



### MR. SCHRAMM

- SATAYATHUM: Good morning. 2


### My name is Dear Schramm, and I am the Manager of 3


### Environmental Affairs with Wabash Valley Power. 4


### Wabash Valley Power is a generation 5


### entrance mission cooperative that ser ves 26 6


### locally owned electricity distribution 7


### cooperatives in the northern half of Indiana, as 8


### well as portions of Illinois and Missouri. 9


### Those distribution coops in turn serve 10


### the rural portions of 82 counties. On average 11


### electricity cooperatives serve a membership with 12


### a lower median household income level and higher 13


### unemployment rates than their investor owned 14


### utility counterparts. A fact that is absolutely 15



### true of our members. 16



### Rural areas of our state are much slower 17


### to realize an economic recovery, and with that 18


### the income and employment levels are also slower 19



### to recover. 20


### Wabash Valley Power's mission is to 21


### deliver affordable reliable electricity, yet 22

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### EPA's proposal to regulate carbon emissions from 1


### existing power plants, as well as the EPA 2



### propos als for modified and reconstructed power 3


### plants poses significant threat to the 4


### pocketbooks of our members. By allowing a longer 5


### ramping up phase electricity cooperatives can 6



### better prepare for fuel and technology 7



### developments necessary to meet these stan dards. 8


### In addition to the changes required by 9


### electricity utilities like Wabash Valley Power, 10


### an extended ramping up timeline will provide 11


### greater economic recovery for the communities we 12


### serve. This will in turn help our members who 13



### are also consumers, b etter prepare to manage the 14



### unavoidable increases in their electric costs. 15


### Wabash Valley is providing rate comments 16



### on a more technical nature, however I'd like to 17


### take this time to highlight a few of our 18



### concerns. 19


### The unit of measurement for this proposed 20


### rule, pounds of carbon dioxide per net megawatt 21


### hours is of particular difficulty for us and I 22

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### believe other utilities . By imposing limits 1


### based on net megawatt hours instead of the more 2


### traditional gross megawatt hours, power plants 3



### must deduct the powe r used to run the facility, 4


### also dubbed as parasitic load. 5


### This appears to be the first time 6


### emissions are being measured as net, instead of 7


### gross. This change also makes it more difficult 8



### for electric utilities to collaborate with their 9



### fellow state util ities to meet the state goals, 10


### which is another wrinkle in the EPA proposed 11


### rule. By using a net measurement each plant must 12


### be able to quantify its parasitic load now, and 13


### then predict it for future compliance purposes. 14



### However, this would be further 15



### com plicated with the recently finalized 316B rule 16


### that regulates the intake of cooling

-- of water 17


### for cooling purposes, which also effects natural 18



### gas plants. 19


### As you're familiar, under 316B, a power 20


### plant would need to limit its impact on aquatic 21



### biota afte r several years of study. The result 22

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### could be to add a new cooling tower or the like, 1


### which in turn would add more parasitic load. 2



### This results in higher carbon dioxide emissions 3


### from a plant, not because the increased carbon 4



### dioxide

-- that carbon dioxi de emissions output 5



### is

-- not because of the increase the carbon 6



### dioxide from the from the stack, but because the 7


### net megawatt hour number is smaller on the 8



### denominator side of the equation. 9


### All the regulations proposed and/or 10


### finalized within the past fiv e years create 11


### uncertainty for our industry and our members. 12


### Our basic question as each regulation is 13


### proposed or finalized is, should we invest in our 14


### current fleet? Should we build something new? 15



### Or should we go to the market for our power. 16



### This is really difficult to answer. 17


### Casper and Max were finalized in 2011, 18


### but the recarbon dioxide regulations and power 19


### plants were most recently proposed in 2013 and 20


### 2014. The proposed rule to define waters of the 21


### U.S. is currently under a public comment peri od. 22

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### 316B was finalized a few months ago, and we 1


### expect the regulation for coal combustion 2



### residuals will be finalized at the end of the 3



### year. The amendments for startup, shutdown, and 4



### malfunction events are revisions to ethyl 5


### limitation guidelines for EG Us or electric 6


### generating units, to be finalized next year. 7


### It is nearly impossible for electric 8


### utilities to adequately prepare for each of 9



### these, let alone the sum of these proposals. 10


### We thank you for giving us 120 days to 11



### submit comments, however, it 's still not adequate 12


### time for all stakeholders to fully grasp and 13


### develop the necessary plans for complying with 14


### EPA's proposal for existing power plants. 15


### For example, the building blocks 16


### reference in the proposal are based on areas that 17



### are outside the purview of at least the Indiana 18


### Department of Environmental Management, or IDEM. 19



### For example, I'm not sure that all plants 20


### or fleets can hit the six percent on average heat 21


### rate efficiency which could possibly trigger the 22

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### reconstruction and modification ru le. IDEM does 1


### not have dispatch authority as referenced in 2


### building block 2, yet MISO and PJM do. 3


### With regard to building block 3, states 4



### with renewable portfolios tie them to power 5


### consumption rather than power generation. This 6


### appears to be a disconn ect. 7


### Finally, it does not have authority over 8


### energy efficiency programs as mentioned in 9


### building block 4. In Indiana, at least, energy 10


### efficiency programs were under the governor's 11


### authority, although his office had recently 12


### announced that this program would be eliminated 13



### in 2015. 14


### Even if these building blocks could be 15


### managed under the authority of IURC or Indiana 16


### Utility Regulatory Commission instead of IDEM, 17


### cooperatives such as Wabash Valley Power and its 18


### 26 member cooperatives are not under IURC 19



### pu rview . So can you see the difficulty or IDEM? 20


### I'm sure other states may be in the same boat. 21



### Please do not be mistaken, we do share 22

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### EPA's concerns for a clean energy future. And a 1


### state without renewable energy mandates Wabash 2


### Valley Power is far ahead of the curve in 3


### diversifying its fuel sources, thus significantly 4


### reducing our reliance on coal, and we've done so 5


### voluntarily and economically. 6



### We encourage EPA to take these human 7


### considerations in effect. We've taken thoughtful 8


### and proactive steps to p rotect the environment 9



### and our members, both present and future. Thank 10



### you. 11


### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. Noting 12


### that it's quarter of 12:00 I'm going to announce 13



### the

-- so the next panel is John Novak and Amanda 14


### Jo Divitia, and then one more speaker, Andre 15



### Sauvageot. 16



### MS. SAUVAGEOT: I'm here. 17


### MR. POWERS: Okay. You will be next. 18


### And then sorry for anybody who is waiting that 19


### thought they'd make it by lunch. We'll take a 20


### break and start precisely at 1:00, after these 21



### three speakers. 22

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### MR. NOVAK: Who would you like to go 1



### first? 2



### MR. POWERS: I've got your name on top of 3



### the card, so go ahead. 4


### MR. NOVAK: Okay. Good morning . I'm 5



### John Novak, head of the Environmental Issues Team 6


### at the National Rural Electric Cooperative 7



### Association. 8



### NRECA is a na tional service organization 9


### or more than 900 not for profit rural electric 10


### utilities that provide electric energy to over 42 11


### million people in 47 states, and 12 percent of 12



### America's electric consumers. 13



### More than any rule currently on the books 14



### the propos ed Clean Power Plan for Existing 15



### Sources will allow the Environmental Protection 16



### Agency to fundamentally alter the way that 17


### electricity is generated and the way that 18


### Americans use electricity. We don't believe that 19


### is EPA's job. 20



### The ramifications from EPA 's proposal 21



### will be felt all the way from the generating 22

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### plant to the toaster. The EPA's energy plan goes 1


### too far, too fast, jeopardizing the wellbeing of 2


### millions of American families in the process. 3


### Simply put, the EPA's proposal will trigger high 4


### pric es for many consumers and local businesses. 5


### America's electric cooperatives serve 6



### more than 90 percent of the persistent poverty 7



### counties across the nation, the same communities 8


### that are put at most risk by the EPA. 9


### While EPA acknowledged America's not for 10


### profit member owned electric cooperatives are 11


### different than most utilities, EPA's proposal 12


### doesn't provide a workable solution to address 13


### cooperatives' unique circumstances. Co

- ops are 14


### small, consumer owned, heavily reliant on coal, 15



### and our not for prof it status limits financial 16


### flexibility. All of our costs are passed on to 17



### our consumer owners. 18



### Should a state choose to reduce the 19


### burden on cooperatives, under EPA's approach a 20



### state would need to increase the burden on other 21


### utility providers, since the state still must 22

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### meet the EPA's goal. We are not asking for 1


### relief at the expense of others. The solution is 2


### for EPA to rework their assumptions and set 3


### reasonable and achievable state goals. 4


### Cooperatives have a proven record of both 5


### supporting the en vironment and following a true 6


### all of the above energy policy that has provided 7


### affordable and reliable electricity for our 8



### consumer members. Since 2009 electric 9


### cooperatives have doubled their renewable energy 10


### capacity and have made long term investments in 11


### wind, solar, and hydro energy production. 12



### Unfortunately EPA's proposal slams the door on an 13



### all of the above strategy, handpicking winners 14


### and losers and driving coal generation out of the 15



### mix. 16


### The proposal will likely result in the 17



### premature closure of a number of power plants 18


### owned by electric cooperatives, placing even 19


### greater financial burdens on the cooperatives and 20



### the consumers who own them. Many of these plants 21


### were built when our national policy encouraged 22

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### the use of coal as a domestic resour ce, and co

1


### ops have invested billions of dollars since then 2


### on environmental controls. These plants have a 3


### useful life that extends well beyond 2030. 4


### Cooperatives have played by the rules but 5


### moving the goalpost again, like this proposal 6



### would do, will result in stranded assets and 7



### premature shut downs. For co

- ops this outcome is 8


### unreasonable, unjustifiable, and arbitrary. 9


### The way we see it, only heat rate 10


### efficiency improvements under the first of EPA's 11


### building blocks is lawful under the Clean Air A ct 12


### to set the standard. EPA then exceeds its legal 13


### authority with three of the four building blocks. 14


### EPA essentially adopts a standard that cannot be 15


### met at the power plant which forces states to 16


### adopt environmental dispatch, renewable portfolio 17



### standard s, and end use efficiency standards to 18


### meet their emissions targets. 19


### Under EPA's proposal, in order to 20


### implement the fourth building block, co

- ops and 21


### consumer owners would have to spend billions on 22

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### energy efficiency. Co

- ops support energy 1


### efficiency and have programs ranging from energy 2


### audits to appliance rebates to automobile 3


### financing programs. 4


### But the level of investment here may well 5


### go beyond the abilities of our consumer owners 6



### and co

- ops to afford, given our demographics. As 7


### we said before, many of our consumer owners fall 8


### below the average income level, and 93 percent of 9


### the persistent poverty counties in the U.S. are 10


### served by electric cooperatives. 11



### Since the 1930s co

- ops have provided 12


### safe, affordable, and reliable electricity to 13



### rural America, and with it economic 14


### opportunities. EPA's proposal directly threatens 15


### these gains and is the wrong approach. 16



### Already tens of thousands of our 17



### consumers from both sides of the aisle have made 18


### their voices heard against this proposal. I'm 19



### proud to add m y voice on behalf of the 42 million 20


### Americans served by electric cooperatives. 21


### Please go back to the drawing board. 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 2



### MS. DIVITA: Hello. 3



### MR. POWERS: Hello. 4


### MS. DIVITA: My name is Amanda Jo Divita. 5



### I am a resident of West Virginia and a mother to 6


### the two very patient children waiting by the door 7



### over there. 8


### I'm from Southern West Virginia. That's 9



### often times know as the coal field area of West 10


### Virginia. My father is a miner. His father was 11


### a miner, going back at l east seven generations on 12


### each side of my family that we're aware of. 13


### I'm part of the first generation in my 14


### family to not work for a coal company. We have 15


### historically been a state of very little 16


### opportunity and very few options. 17



### Where I come from envi ronmental pollution 18


### from coal plants is not just something we hear 19


### people argue about on the news. It's not an idea 20


### or a distant issue that we think about and put 21


### away. It's an issue that we deal with on a daily 22

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### basis. We wear it on our clothes, we drin k it in 1


### our water, we breathe it in our lungs. 2


### And the pollution in my state is in large 3


### part due to the way that we keep our lights on. 4


### Coal. If you are from Southern West Virginia you 5


### either live near a mine, a coal fired power 6



### plant, or a coal process ing plant. We are 7



### surrounded by coal. 8


### Coal fired power plants make up 95 9


### percent of the energy generation in West 10


### Virginia. Fifty years ago that would not have 11



### been such an embarrassment. Today we know that 12


### there are better options. Clean energy in Wes t 13


### Virginia would reduce our carbon footprint, 14



### reduce our unemployment rate, and reduce the 15



### amount of money we spend on health care. 16


### It would give us the options that we have 17


### been lacking in the past. Clean energy would 18


### allow us to work jobs that didn't p ut our 19


### families in danger from environmental pollution. 20


### Jobs that wouldn't have such a terrible impact on 21


### the beautiful landscape of our state. 22

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### I promise you, you will find a hard time 1


### finding anyone in West Virginia that wouldn't 2



### trade that coal power pl ant in their back yard 3



### for a wind turbine or a solar installation. I 4



### would much rather have a hydro

- electric dam in my 5


### river than 1,000 tons of coal slurry. 6


### We now have technology in place to make 7


### life in our state better. We do no longer have 8



### to rely on the coal companies to give us jobs or 9


### to give us power. There are better options for 10



### us. 11


### What we're asking for now is simple. We 12



### want to live healthier lives. We want to breathe 13


### cleaner air. And we want jobs that help us stay 14



### in our communities, and we want those jobs to not 15


### endanger the lives of those of us that live 16



### there. We need a plan. 17


### The Clean Power Plan is a very small 18


### step, but it is a step in the right direction. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. Andre 21



### Sauvageot. 22

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### MS. SAUVAGEOT : You said it right. 1


### MR. POWERS: And let's see if we can get 2



### two more folks in before the end of this 3


### particular session. Bruce Burton and Nancy Kunz

4



### Merry . Are you both still here? 5



### MR. BURTON: Yes. 6


### MR. POWERS: As long as I didn't screw up 7



### anybody

-- okay. We'll get you in too. 8



### Yes, sir. 9



### MS. SAUVAGEOT: Well, first thanks a lot 10


### for Environment Virginia for arranging this with 11


### EPA, and thank you all for receiving me. 12



### I'm Andre Sauvageot, and I'm a Colonel 13


### U.S. Army retired, but I am now actively eng aged 14


### as a partner for the Interstate Traveling 15


### Company, LLC. base in Detroit. And this company 16


### can contribute directly to the goals of the Clean 17


### Power Plan. I tell you in a minute. 18



### Now there's no morally acceptable reason 19


### to deny the overwhelming scienti fic consensus 20


### that global warming is a grave danger to human 21


### health, the economy, and even to life itself. 22

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### But let's just talk a minute about the near term 1



### to midterm antics of uncontrolled global warming, 2



### and let's talk about business first, since I'm a 3



### business man. 4



### The former Treasury Secretary, Robert E. 5


### Rubin recently citing a study called Risky 6


### Business, a formal study on how the climate 7


### change could, in his words, sink the U.S. 8



### Economy . Full stop. 9



### By 2050, oh about

-- well, some place 10


### between $48 a nd $68 billion worth of proposed in 11


### just two states, Louisiana and Florida, would be 12


### at great risk of flooding because they're going 13



### to be below sea level. The bottom line for the 14


### whole thing. Viewed from an economic perspective 15



### the cost of inaction will greatly exceed the cost 16


### of moving away from fossil fuels. We have to do 17



### it. 18



### Now, what's the long term threat then? 19



### Well, it's existential , because rising sea levels 20


### flooding coastal cities in many countries can 21


### spawn domestic unrest, even civil war, and even 22

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### later wars between and among nation states as 1



### they scramble and compete for scarce clean water 2



### and other resources. 3



### Now, there's a very interesting U.N. 4


### Climate change, new report, came out in June. 5


### And they say that to avoid these wars we actually 6


### have to limit the rise of temperature, global 7



### temperatures, to not more than two degrees 8



### Celsius , or 3.5 Fahrenheit . We have to do that 9



### by the end of the century. 10


### For example, greenhouse gas emissions 11


### will have to drop from 40 to 70 percent by 2050, 12



### and then even more, oh to nearly zero by the end 13



### of the century. Wow. 14



### Emissions

-- and they grew more quickly 15


### in the decade between the year 2000 and 2010, 16


### than in the previous three decades. It's going 17


### to be quite a challenge. Big shifts are 18


### required. 19



### And so the Clean Power Plan that we're 20



### here to discuss , I'd like to say from the 21


### standpoint of my company, is bold and yet 22

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### inadequate. The President's decision to reduce 1


### carbon emissions by 30 percent by 2030 is 2


### politically courageous, commendable, and y et 3


### inadequate, not his fault. But it's simply a 4


### fact that that alone, even if done perfectly, 5


### will not meet those statistics I gave you before. 6



### And also, there's another reason. The 7



### United States alone, no matter what we do, can't 8


### meet the world require ments because we get other 9



### -- we have to get other nations like China and 10


### India particularly to buy in. 11


### Now I'd just like to mention that we

-- 12


### our company, I said, we can help. We don't have 13



### to talk about our high level or anything . That's 14



### kind of far o ut. But in the immediate future, 15


### almost today, with EPA's help or some council, 16


### we're in discussions already with the largest 17



### power plant

-- one of the largest power plants in 18


### the United States. The company has assigned one 19


### of their high level executive s to discuss our 20


### concept for turning turbines in, you know, coal 21


### plants closing now in Indiana and other states, 22

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### we want to turn those turbines with clean safe 1


### green renewable produced hydrogen. That, sir, is 2


### what we are discussing now with a power plant. I 3


### won't disclose who today because we don't have 4


### permission yet. But just, we need a contact at 5


### EPA to bounce some ideas off. If we could just 6


### get that, and this can be a worldwide clean air 7


### game changer to potentially replace coal and 8


### natural gas with safe green renewable energy. 9


### But we can use coal even more safely with 10



### the hydrogen fuel. 11



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. Are 12



### you through? Thank you very much. Yes. 13


### MS. SAUVAGEOT: Yes, sir. Thank you, 14



### sir. 15


### MR. POWERS: Yes. Our final panel is 16



### Br uce Burton and Nancy Kunz

- Merry. 17



### You may get to be a panel of one. 18



### Actually, Paula Jackson. 19


### MR. BURTON: I'm pulling it a little 20


### closer. Sorry for the banging. How is that? 21



### MR. POWERS: Great. 22

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### MR. BURTON: Well, good morning. We're 1


### right on the c usp. It's

-- 2


### MR. POWERS: Good morning. 3



### MR. BURTON:

-- morning right now. I am 4



### Bruce Burton. I am an international 5


### representative with the International Brotherhood 6



### of Electrical Workers. 7


### On behalf of the approximately 750,000 8



### active members and retir ees of the IBEW, I thank 9


### you for the opportunity to testify. 10


### For the following reasons the IBEW 11



### opposes the Clean Power Plan as proposed. 12



### EPA reports the Clean Power Plan will 13


### lead to the closure of 41 to 49 gigawatts of coal 14


### fired generated capacity b y 2020, just six years 15


### from now. According to the Government's own 16


### figures, this will result in the loss of 52,000 17


### permanent direct jobs in the utility, rail, and 18


### coal mining sectors. In addition, closing this 19


### much coal generation will cost an additional 20


### 100,000 direct jobs. 21



### However, EPA's numbers must be viewed 22

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### with some suspicion. During the mercury and air 1


### toxics rulemaking process EPA claimed MATS would 2


### close only 4.7 gigawatts of coal generation. The 3



### IBEW and others told EPA their number was far to o 4



### rosy and MATS would close 56 gigawatts of coal. 5



### It turned out we were correct. Experts 6


### now confirm that 56 gigawatts of coal generation 7


### will be lost by 2016. Taken together, MATS and 8


### the Clean Power Plan will close approximately 40 9



### percent of today's c oal fleet. Gone with those 10


### plants will be approximately 400,000 American 11


### jobs at a time when our nation continues to 12



### recover from the worst recession since the Great 13


### Depression. And the national unemployment rate 14



### stands at 6.1 percent. 15


### Unfortunately, giv en the IBEW's 16


### experience with MATS those numbers could become 17


### far worse. Closing so much coal so fast 18


### threatens the reliability of the nation's 19


### electric grid, creating the potential for 20


### widespread blackouts and brownouts during periods 21



### of peak usage. 22

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### Du ring the recent polar vortex 90 percent 1


### of American electric powers coal plants scheduled 2



### to be closed under MATS were used to generate 3


### electricity. Pardon me. 4


### In addition PJM, a regional transmission 5


### authority operating in the Mid A tlantic and 6



### Easter M idwest reportedly came within 700 7


### megawatts of being unable to meet electricity 8


### demand. This, during one of the coldest snowiest 9



### winters on record. 10


### So for all this pain the Clean Power Plan 11


### will certainly cause a large drop in Co2 12



### emissions, correct? And the answer is, no. In 13


### fact there will be almost no impact on Co2 14


### emissions that contribute to global warming. As 15


### the graph included with my testimony illustrates, 16



### and I'll leave that behind when I'm done, the 17


### problem is not with the United States. 18



### U.S. Co2 emissions have been flat since 19


### 1990, and are forecast to remain so through the 20


### year 2030 with or without the Clean Power Plan. 21


### The problem lies instead with our trading 22

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### partners. While U.S. emissions have remained 1


### flat, Co2 output in the rest of the world has 2


### risen approximately 44 percent since 1990, from 3


### 16,000 million metric tons annually to 4


### approximately 36 million metric tons today. Our 5


### nation cannot afford to go it alone, and expect 6


### our actions will have any meaningful climate 7


### impact in a world that is using more and more 8



### coal and other fossil fuels. Unless other 9



### nations act, our efforts in the United States 10


### will be for naught. 11


### Given a recent Supreme Court decision 12


### regarding the greenhouse gas permitting rule, 13



### there is reason to believe the Cou rt will take a 14


### skeptical view of an overly expansive 15


### interpretation of EPA's authority to regulate 16


### greenhouse gases. With that in mind the IBEW 17


### recommends EPA reduce the significant impact of 18


### the Clean Power Plan by providing credit to the 19



### states that hav e already reduced their Co2 20



### emissions due to market driven forces such as 21


### increased natural gas use, the retirement of 22

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### older coal plants, and/or the construction of new 1


### nuclear generation. 2


### The IBEW also recommends a delay in the 3


### implementation of the Cle an Power Plan to give 4


### states and utilities adequate time to implement 5


### compliance strategies. 6


### Finally, though outside the scope of this 7


### rulemaking, addressing global climate change in a 8


### meaningful way will require the full cooperation 9



### of nations like Chin a and India. Absent their 10



### commitment the Clean Power Plan will have no real 11


### benefit. Thank you very much. 12



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 13


### MS. JACKSON: Thank you for holding these 14


### public hearings and for the opportunity to speak 15


### today. My name is Paula Robert s

- Jackson and I am 16



### the President and CEO of the American Association 17


### of Blacks in Energy. The AABE is a national 18


### association of energy professionals founded in 19



### 1977 and dedicated to ensure that 20



### African/Americans and other minorities have a 21



### voice in the de velopment of energy policy and 22

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### related environmental issues. 1



### While we as an association are still in 2



### the process of analyzing the rule and the many 3


### technical support documents, AABE has some 4



### concerns about EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 5


### We recognize tha t there is no simple solution for 6


### addressing climate change with regard to 7


### greenhouse gas emissions. However, we believe 8



### any approach must be balanced, f ai r, and take 9


### into consideration the impact of communities, 10


### economic development, health, jobs, and th e price 11


### of electricity. 12


### This proposed rule is likely to increase 13


### electric power costs across the country. It will 14


### do so in part by changing the way our nation's 15


### electric generation resources are utilized to 16


### meet demand. Currently generating units are 17



### dis patched based primarily on economics to ensure 18


### that the most cost effective generating units are 19


### dispatched first. 20


### This rule appears to largely eliminate 21


### economic dispatch in favor of environmental 22

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### dispatch, without regard to cost. Because it 1



### eliminates t he focus on cost of energy resources, 2


### EPA's proposed carbon plan will not only increase 3


### electricity prices, which leads to higher 4


### electric bills, more expensive goods and 5


### services, and fewer jobs. And that has a 6


### disproportionate impact on those who are le ast 7


### able to manage those impacts. That is our small 8



### business owners, our families and individuals who 9



### are on a fixed or a low income. 10



### While it's not a silver bullet, broad 11


### deployment of energy efficiency measures will be 12


### important to reduce the impact of rising utility 13


### bills. AABE strongly supports energy efficiency 14


### and serves as a resource on this issue for energy 15


### consumers, especially in underserved communities. 16


### But we can't do it alone. Energy 17


### efficiency measures and education must be made 18



### available t o small businesses and lower fixed 19


### income families and individuals because they are 20



### the ones that will benefit the most from the 21


### energy savings. 22

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### It is important that we make progress on 1


### our climate change goals and commitments. But we 2



### must find solution s that minimize the risk of 3


### cost increases and do not heap the costs on those 4



### least able to bear them. We believe that GHG 5


### policy should not result in a net negative impact 6


### on jobs or trade balances, and that the costs of 7


### goods and services in the long te rm, and all 8



### sectors of the economy , and all sources of GHG 9



### should be included in initiatives to reduce these 10



### emissions. 11


### We believe that policies must ensure that 12



### low and fixed income consumers do not shoulder 13


### disproportionate costs impact as a result of 14



### th ese efforts. And we recognize that there is no 15


### simple solution for reducing GHG emissions. The 16


### best strategy will strike a balance between cost 17



### effective emission reductions and economic 18


### growth, and prosperity for all Americans. 19


### This proposal does not st rike that 20


### balance. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 21


### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. With 22

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### that I'm going to declare a recess and encourage 1


### people to take a break, get some lunch. We will 2



### reconvene at 1:00, and the next person I have 3



### down on the cards is Linda Tsang. You'll be 4


### number one at 1:00. Thanks very much for coming. 5


### (Lunch recess from 12:09 p.m. until 1:03 6



### p.m.) 7



### MR. NIEBLING: Good afternoon. My name 8


### is William Niebling. I'm one of the chairs at 9


### today's public hearing. Thank you for coming 10



### today. 11


### Joining me on the panel this afternoon 12


### are Beth Conlin and Marguerite McLamb. We are 13


### here today to listen to your comments on two 14


### proposed rules to reduce carbon pollution from 15



### power plants. EPA announced both of these 16



### proposed rules on J une 2nd, 2014. 17



### Power plants are the largest source of 18


### carbon pollution on the United States, accounting 19


### for roughly one third of all domestic greenhouse 20


### gas emissions. 21


### The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 22

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### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 1



### pro posal consists of two main parts, state 2


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 3


### power plants and guidelines to help states 4


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 5


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 6


### determining how to meet their goals. Stat es will 7


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 8


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 9


### their goals by 2030. 10


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 11



### address carbon dioxide from modified and 12


### reconstructed power plants. This rule would set 13



### emissions limits for two groups of power plants, 14


### those that make physical or operational changes 15


### that increase the plant's maximum achievable 16


### hourly rate of emissions, and those that replace 17



### components to such an extent that the new 18



### components exceed 5 0 percent of the capital cost 19


### of an entirely new comparable facility. 20


### If you would like more details on either 21



### of these proposed rules there are fact sheets 22

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### available near the registration desk. 1


### Today's hearing is one of four public 2


### hearings we are holdi ng across the country this 3



### week on the two proposed rules. We've had 4


### tremendous interest in each of the hearings and 5


### I'd like to thank you for taking time out of your 6


### day today to join us and share your comments. 7


### We have a lot of people signed up to 8



### spe ak today and we want to hear from all of them, 9


### so before we get started I'd like to go through a 10


### few housekeeping items and ground rules that will 11


### help make today's hearing run smoothly. 12


### First, please be sure that you have 13


### checked in at the registration de sk, even if 14


### you're not planning to speak today. And if you 15


### signed up to speak online or by phone but you 16



### haven't yet told us that you're here, please step 17


### out to the registration desk and let the EPA 18


### staff there know that you arrived. 19


### Second, if you are a speaker and you were 20


### given a room letter when you checked in, you 21



### should look at it, Room A or Room B. This is 22

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### Room A. Are you in the right room? If not, this 1


### is a good time to switch. 2


### All right. So here's how today's hearing 3



### will work. I will call u p speakers I pairs, 4


### doing my best to pronounce your names accurately. 5


### When your name is called, please come to the 6



### table at the front of the room. When I call on 7


### you to speak please state your name and spell it 8


### for the court reporter. Your comments will be 9



### transcribed and included in the record of 10



### comments on the proposed rule. 11


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 12


### give comments. We have a light to help you know 13


### how much time you have left to speak. When it 14



### turns from green to yellow that means you ha ve 15


### one minute remaining, and when it turns red 16


### that’s a signal to wrap up your testimony. 17


### The light will flash red and beep when 18


### you have spoken for five minutes and it's time to 19



### stop. 20


### When you are finished speaking please 21


### remain at the table until the pe rson next to you 22

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### has completed his or her testimony. We are here 1


### to listen to you today, however a panel member 2


### may ask you questions to clarify your comments. 3


### I will then call up the next pair of speakers and 4



### so on and so forth. 5



### If you have brought a wr itten copy of 6


### your testimony please give that to the staff at 7


### the registration desk before you leave. 8



### Because of the large number of people who 9


### have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 10


### everyone we're going to have to strictly enforce 11



### the five minut e limit. If you have additional 12


### comments you would like to make you can submit 13


### them in writing. I can assure you that EPA gives 14


### just as much consideration to comments that we 15


### receive in writing as we do to comments we 16


### receive at public hearings like this one. So if 17


### you have more that you would like to say, please 18



### submit it. Your comments will be reviewed. 19


### There's still plenty of time to get 20



### written comments in, and there are comment cards 21


### available at the registration desk. Comments 22

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### must be received by October 16th, 2014. We will 1


### put any written comments submitted today in the 2


### official docket for the proposed rule. 3


### Instructions for submitting written comments in 4


### other ways are available at the materials table 5


### near the registration desk. 6



### We're schedule d to go until about 8:00 7


### p.m. tonight and we'll take a dinner break so 8


### that everyone can get something to eat and 9


### stretch their legs. Right now the dinner break 10



### is scheduled for 5:00. 11


### We may take occasional short breaks 12


### throughout this afternoon as needed and will keep 13


### you posted as this session goes on. 14


### If you have any questions please see the 15


### staff at the registration desk and somebody will 16



### try to help you. 17


### Finally, I want to ask each of you to 18



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 19



### today. We hav e people with a wide variety of 20



### views in the audience and we want to hear from 21


### each of you. So we can do that and to be fair to 22

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### everyone we ask that everyone listen quietly. 1


### Even applause can slow things down and we want to 2


### hear from everyone who has sig ned up to speak. 3


### Thank you again for taking the time today 4



### to share your comments on EPA's proposed rules. 5


### I think we should get started. 6


### The first two people I'd like to call up 7


### today are Leah Qusba and Leslie Fields. 8



### MS. QUSBA: Who should go first? 9



### MR . NIEBLING: Leah, please. 10


### MS. QUSBA: Okay. That's me. My name is 11


### Leah Qusba, I'm here representing the Alliance 12



### for Climate Education and also Climate Parents. 13



### MR. NIEBLING: Leah, I'm sorry, can I ask 14



### you to spell your name for the court reporter? 15



### MS. QUSBA: Leah, L

- E

- A

- H, last name 16



### Qusba, Q

- U

- S

- B

- A. 17



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 18


### MS. QUSBA: I testified back in November 19


### at the public hearings that the EPA hosted for 20


### the carbon standard, alongside dozens of youth 21



### leaders that I work with. And this time I 22

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### brought someone new with me. My daughter. She's 1


### actually expected to arrive in just two months. 2



### I'm an auntie five times over and I'm 3


### expecting my first child, so now more than ever 4


### I'm ready to stand up for climate solutions. 5



### As a long

- time climate activist and 6


### expectant mother I'm a active member of Climate 7


### Parents. They're a national organization working 8


### to stop dirty polluting energy, and to grow kid

9



### safe climate

- safe clean energy. 10


### I'm also the Strategic Director at the 11



### Alliance for Climate Edu cation based out of the 12


### San Francisco Bay area. We're the leading youth 13


### climate education organization in the country and 14


### I've been working with ACE for the last five 15


### years to educate, inspire, and activate youth to 16


### create lasting climate solutions now an d 17


### throughout their adult lives. 18


### We work with more than 1.8 million young 19


### people across the country in about 23 states 20


### through education and leadership development. 21



### You know, over the years I've really developed a 22

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### keen insight into how young people feel ab out 1


### climate change and one thing is just really clear 2


### to me, they actively support bold climate 3



### solutions and immediate action to cut carbon 4


### pollution when they're presented with the dirty 5


### facts about burning coal. It's just common 6



### sense. 7



### But you don't ha ve to take my word for 8


### it. You're going to hear directly from some of 9


### those youth later today as they testify here, and 10


### they can speak for themselves and for their own 11


### generation. 12



### As a soon mom to be, who is about to 13


### bring a little girl and a future clima te 14



### protector into the world, I'm committed now more 15


### than ever to take action to protect my daughter, 16


### and really all kids from climate impacts like 17


### extreme weather and air pollution that's 18


### exacerbating childhood asthma rates. 19


### According to the American Lung 20


### Association one out of every four children under 21


### the age of 18 living in or around major U.S. 22

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### cities suffers from asthma. That's a quarter of 1


### our kids. That's just simply unacceptable for my 2


### child or for anyone else's. 3


### You know, burning fossil fuels is a 4


### threat to our health, our national security, and 5


### our future as a species, and that's why I'm here 6



### to support the EPA's Clean Power Plan proposed 7


### rule to regulate dangerous carbon pollution and 8


### other cancer and asthma inducing pollutants. 9



### I'm here today t o urge you, the EPA, to 10


### issue an ambitious final carbon pollution 11


### standard for existing and modified sources. And 12



### as an expectant mom I've learned about all sorts 13


### of things to make sure my baby is safe. Right? 14


### From healthy organic food, making sure ther e's no 15



### BPA in the baby bottles. But at the end of the 16


### day the truth is, climate change is actually the 17


### greatest threat that's facing our children. And 18


### more parents across America are coming to 19


### understand this reality every day. 20


### The really good news is th at we can still 21


### take steps now to avoid the worst impacts of 22

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### climate change, and to not take action is 1


### actually a direct and blatant threat to our 2



### children's futures, and their children's after 3



### that. 4


### You know, politicians and nonprofit 5



### leaders, elected off icials, government employees, 6



### we're all parents and grandparents too, right? 7



### The duty of motherhood or fatherhood surely 8


### outweighs the pull from big energy special 9


### interests, right? 10



### That's why I'm very very hopeful that the 11


### EPA is going to listen to thi s call for action. 12


### And besides the clear moral obligation to protect 13


### this generation and those to come from climate 14


### change, there's also a clear economic case to be 15


### made, right? 16



### Last year alone crop losses, flood 17


### damage, wildfires, and other climate rel ated 18


### disasters cost our country more than $140 19


### billion. And the American tax payers picked up 20


### the bulk of the costs, nearly $100 billion to the 21


### tune of about $1,100 per tax payer. 22

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### The answer is simple, in the United 1



### States power plants account for about 4 0 percent 2


### of the carbon pollution that's driving climate 3


### change. And while we currently have public 4


### health protections with limits on arsenic, lead, 5


### mercury, soot, and other pollutions from power 6


### plants, there's no existing national limits in 7



### place for ca rbon pollution. It's not safe. It 8


### must change, and it needs to happen now. 9



### So what about solutions? We can cut 10


### carbon by making our homes and businesses more 11


### energy efficient, energy efficiency, and 12


### America's cheapest and cleanest energy resource. 13



### Thes e types of programs have delivered cost 14


### effective savings on an average net cost of 2.5 15


### cents per kilowatt hour, or less than half the 16



### cost of fossil fuel alternatives. 17



### And several states have really proven 18


### that they can quickly ramp up energy efficiency 19



### e fforts to contribute to large scale decreases in 20



### emissions. 21


### The solution is clear. We can no longer 22

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### subscribe to this gambler's mentality. Trying 1


### our luck, hoping and betting foolishly that the 2


### next Hurricane Sandy or exceptional California 3



### drought, or b iblical flood is just going to be 4


### avoided like magic. We urge you to write the 5


### strictest carbon pollution standard possible. 6



### Thank you. 7


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Leah. Leslie. 8


### MS. FIELDS: Good afternoon. My name is 9



### Leslie Fields. I'm the Director o f the 10


### Environmental Justice and Community Partnerships 11


### Program at the Sierra Club here in Washington, 12



### D.C. 13


### My first name is spelled L

- E

- S

- L

- I

- E. My 14


### last name is spelled F

- I

- E

- L

- D

- S. And you've no 15


### doubt heard that the Sierra Club strongly 16



### supports EPA's proposed Clean Pollution Standards 17


### for existing power plants and modified plants. 18



### I would like to touch on what the rule 19


### for existing power plant means for communities of 20


### color and economic disadvantaged Americans. This 21


### rule is a great effort in the ri ght direction. 22

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### We hope EPA will also address some unresolved 1



### issues with this rule regarding environmental 2


### justice communities. 3



### Executive Order 12898 establishes a 4


### Federal executive policy on environmental 5


### justice. It's main provision directs agencies to 6


### the greatest extent possible and practical by law 7


### to make the environmental justice part of their 8


### mission by identifying and addressing as 9


### appropriate, disproportionate, high, and adverse 10



### human health and environmental effects of these 11



### programs. 12



### Section 2A of the preamble of this rule 13


### summarizes the public health and welfare impacts 14


### from greenhouse gas emissions that were detailed 15


### in the 2009 Endangerment Finding. 16



### The Administrator consider the climate 17


### change risk to minority and low income 18


### populations. Finding that certain parts of the 19


### population would be especially vulnerable based 20


### on their circumstances, these include poor, 21


### elderly, very young, those already in poor 22

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### health, disabled, living alone, and indigenous 1


### populations. 2



### And the Administrator ha s placed great 3


### weight on the fact that these certain groups, 4


### including children, elderly, and the poor are 5



### most vulnerable to climate health effects. 6


### This rule would limit greenhouse gas 7


### emissions by establishing Co2 emissions 8


### guidelines for existing fos sil fuel fired 9


### electric generating units, or EGUs. In addition 10


### to reducing the Co2 emissions implementing the 11


### proposed rule would reduce other emissions from 12


### EUGs that become dispatched less frequently due 13


### to their relatively low energy efficiency. 14



### Person s with low socioeconomic stature 15


### have been generally found to have high prevalence 16


### of preexisting diseases, limited access to 17



### medical treatment, and increased nutritional 18



### deficiencies, which can increase the population's 19



### risk of PM related and ozone relate d effects. 20



### Therefore in these areas where this rule 21


### may reduce exposure to P2 and five ozone and 22

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### metal mercury, persons with low socioeconomic 1



### stature would also benefit. 2


### In addition, some of the EGUs possibly 3


### being required to state

-- to make modificat ions 4


### for increased energy efficiency, another affect 5


### of the Co2 emission guidelines for existing 6



### fossil fuel EGUs would be to increase utilization 7


### of other unmodified EGUs with relatively low 8


### greenhouse gas emissions per unit and 9


### particularly high efficien cy EGUs. 10



### Because such EGUs have not been modified 11


### physically or changed in their method, they would 12


### not be subject to review in the NSR, New Sources 13


### Review Permitting Program. Such plants would 14


### have more hours in the year in which they would 15



### operate and e mit pollutants, including pollutants 16



### whose environmental effects would be localized 17


### rather than global as indicates greenhouse 18



### emissions. 19


### Depending on the specificity of the state 20


### Clean Air Act Section 111D plans, the state would 21


### be able to predict which o f these EGUs and 22

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### communities may be in this type of situation and 1



### to address these concerns. 2



### And EPA is again saying that existing 3


### tracking systems to allow these states to be 4


### aware of these EGUs need to be increased very 5


### significantly. 6



### And this is whe re EPA must be vigilant. 7


### Support resources. So communities and their 8


### advocates can understand what is going on, the 9



### time frame for the SIPs and the FIPs if 10


### necessary, must be publicized for communities and 11


### their advocates. EPA has done a very good job 12



### r ecently conducting workshops which EPA rule 13


### writers and EJ activists have been working 14


### together and collaborating. 15


### And I've participated in one at Research 16


### Triangle Park earlier this year, and on June 26th 17


### there was one regarding the refinery rule at 18



### Dil lard University. 19


### This proposed rule, though however, would 20


### result in regional national pollutant reductions. 21


### However, it is likely that there would be 22

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### locations with more times during the year 1


### relatively higher concentrations of pollutants, 2


### with a potent ial for effects on localized 3



### communities than would be experienced in the 4



### absence of the proposed rule. 5


### And this is EPA saying again, it can't 6


### exactly predict how emissions from these specific 7



### EGUs would change as an outcome of the proposed 8



### rule due to s tate lead implementation. Therefore 9



### EPA states it has concluded that it is not 10


### practicable to determine whether there would be 11


### disproportionately or high and adverse human 12



### health environmental effects on these localized 13


### populations. Well, that's not acce ptable. EPA 14


### should do a proper environmental justice analysis 15


### as required under Executive Order 12898, and we 16



### know that EPA can do this. We still laud EPA for 17


### its gold standard EJ analysis for the definition 18



### of solid waste rule. 19



### So EPA must do this the same for all 20


### rules. To simply say that there is, you know, 21


### it's not practical to determine whether it's 22

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### going to be high or disproportionate effects in 1


### human health is just not acceptable at all. 2



### And also EPA must also be serious about 3


### enforcing Title 6 of the Civil Rights Act during 4


### this process because Title 6 mandates that any 5


### entity that receives federal funds cannot 6



### discriminate on the basis of race, natural 7


### origin, or color. There also should be an EJ 8


### analysis looking at the use of mass

- based and 9



### r ate

- based systems to be conducted. There's 10



### alternative energy concerns that are critical to 11


### EJ communities and I know my time is up so I will 12


### continue my comments in the written form. 13



### Thank you very much. 14



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much and we 15



### encour age you to submit comments on the

-- 16



### MS. FIELDS: Okay. 17


### MR. NIEBLING: On those specifics. 18


### MS. FIELDS: All right. Thanks. 19



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. The next two 20


### people I'd like to invite to come speak are 21


### Catherine Thomasson and Rebecca Forbes, please

. 22

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### MS. THOMASSON: Thank you. Hello. My 1



### name is Dr. Catherine Thomasson. Catherine is 2



### with a C, C

- A

- T

- H

- E

- R

- I

- N

- E, and my last name 3



### Thomasson is T

- H

- O

- M

- A

- S

- S

- O

- N. 4



### I'm the Executive Director of Physicians 5


### for Social Responsibility, representing 40,000 6



### members and advocates for this rule. 7



### I'm here to speak for a strong rule; a 8


### strong clean power plan and advocate to make it 9


### stronger than it's currently written. 10


### As a physician I've taken care of people 11



### with arrhythmias and heart attacks and chronic 12



### lung diseases. I've had to shock people to bring 13



### their heart back to life. 14


### By implementing this rule we will reduce 15



### the rise of ozone which exacerbates all these 16


### diseases. We will also reduce coal burning power 17


### plants which produce particulates and other 18



### p ollutions which also make these diseases worse. 19


### As a physician I've also treated heat 20


### stroke and asthma, which is skyrocketing. 21


### At the end of the century, if we don't 22

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### implement a strong rule and take additional 1


### actions the temperature in the summer is going to 2


### get higher than eight to 15 degrees Fahrenheit 3



### more than it is now. The numbers that are often 4


### cited are the average year round temperatures

. 5


### But summer temperatures will get a lot warmer 6


### than winter temperatures will. 7



### But I've also worked in mi grant clinics 8


### in Oregon. Thirty

- one percent of Hispanic 9


### population before the Affordable Care Act, did 10


### not have any health insurance. So those people 11


### don't get treated for their heat stroke, their 12



### asthma and their heart attack. 13


### Perhaps even more seriousl y in terms of 14


### the health impacts of climate change is the 15


### impact of extreme weather on our infrastructure. 16


### I was appalled when I read at the hospital in 17



### Belvue that had to take its intensive care 18


### patients on breathing machines down the stairwell 19



### because t here was no electricity. 20


### Hurricane Katrina closed seven hospitals 21


### in the city. Only five have reopened. The 22

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### largest charity care, Charity Hospital, has not 1


### reopened, leaving a lot of people without care. 2



### Sea level rise and floods will also ruin 3



### water tre atment plants, town halls, and other 4



### infrastructure that are located at the shoreline. 5


### All of this is so much more expensive than 6


### implementing this rule, and other measures to 7


### reduce climate change. 8


### So what's great about this EPA rule? 9



### It's the largest s ingle federal action to reduce 10


### the threat of climate change, and I thank you for 11



### that. In addition it has been constructed so 12



### that every state has the flexibility to take 13


### action based on their political ability and their 14


### resource ability. That's incredib le flexibility 15



### for a rule. 16



### What are the limitations? Well, it's 17


### only a good first step. It gets us less than 15 18


### percent of where we really need to be in terms of 19



### carbon reductions to achieve a limit of two 20


### degrees centigrade elevation in our temperatur e 21



### over the next century. 22

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### The EPA also used very moderate standards 1


### to determine what the states can actually 2


### achieve. So with energy efficiency standards as 3


### a yardstick, if we did many more things such as 4


### more insulation, white roofs, new appliance 5



### standa rds, better construction, automatic switch 6



### off for all of our electronic devices, we could 7


### reduce our electric demand by 50 percent. 8


### I am feeling

-- I feel very lucky that I 9


### have the ability to put solar panels on my roof. 10



### I installed them with a large tax rebate, I 11


### signed up for brownout allowances, and rarely 12


### when I purchase electricity I get it from wind. 13


### These policies and incentives are shown 14


### to improve the likelihood of people accepting, 15


### utilizing, and being proud of having green 16



### energy. Many stud ies have shown that increasing 17


### green energy and electricity can achieve what we 18



### need. 19



### How can we make this rule better besides 20


### requiring even more reductions? Less emphasis on 21


### natural gas. Natural gas is a fossil fuel. When 22

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### it's burned it still emits 50 percent carbon 1


### dioxide into the atmosphere. And this rule 2



### cannot include this, I understand that, but if we 3


### had to include all the fugitive gas of this 4



### extremely strong or greenhouse gas from mining to 5


### transport to storage, natural gas is not any 6



### better than coal. So putting more emphasis on 7


### energy efficiency and green renewable energies 8


### will make the rule stronger and provide us with 9



### less health threats in the future. 10


### So thank you very much for taking our 11


### testimony. 12



### MR. NIEBLING: Okay. 13



### MS. FORBES: Tha nk you. Well, good 14


### afternoon. My name is Rebecca Forbes. That's 15



### spelled F

- O

- R

- B

- E

- S and I'm here in support of 16



### the EPA Clean Power Plan. 17



### While I am an intern at Environment 18


### America, I'm here actually as a Canadian Citizen 19



### today, and as well as a membe r of the next 20


### generation. 21


### When I was a child a big focus of my life 22

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### was going to the beaches along the Great Lakes. 1


### My family frequently went to the Canadian side of 2



### Lake Erie. 3


### On one of these trips my family and I 4


### recognized that the beach had effect ively become 5


### a toxic waste basis for a lot of major industry 6


### and power plants. Specifically there was a lot 7


### of waste as a result of air pollution. A lot of 8


### it had been absorbed into the algae, and as 9


### insignificant as that may sound it actually 10



### resulted i n the algae blooming and absorbing all 11


### the oxygen from the lake and killing a majority 12



### of the fish. 13


### As a child I was terrified because seeing 14


### dead fish floating among the waves is not 15


### something that you'd be used to by any stretch of 16


### the imagination. 17



### I re cognize that the EPA power plan would 18


### be a great method of reducing this and causing a 19



### lot of beneficial traits for the environment as a 20


### whole. With that said I remember that my mother 21


### was terrified for my health, I was terrified for 22

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### my health, but I didn 't fully understand the 1



### extent of the situation. And I believe that the 2


### Clean Power Plan is a great method of changing 3


### that problem for future generations. 4



### The Great Lakes are one of the greatest 5



### and most substantial fresh water resources on 6



### Earth. And t hey're important for people on both 7


### sides of the border, not just America. With that 8



### said I also believe that the Clean Power Plan 9


### would be an amazing step for Americans to benefit 10


### their own public health. 11


### Specifically relating to an example said 12



### by Senat or Sanders of Vermont, he brought a very 13


### interesting example to the table at the recent 14


### hearing, the senate hearing with Administrator 15


### Gina McCarthy. He made a comparison between 16


### anthropogenic climate change and tobacco growth 17



### in the U.S. 18



### The correlation he made was that the 19


### federal government was lobbied very aggressively 20


### by tobacco farmers and associated industries at 21


### the point when tobacco was introduced as having a 22

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### risk to public health. At that time science and 1



### facts won that battle and eventually th ere were 2


### legislations put in place to prevent tobacco use 3


### in many public spaces and to prevent second hand 4


### smoke from affecting many people. 5


### I believe that this situation is very 6



### similar and that we can use similar traits in 7



### order to benefit our environme nt, and to protect 8


### people in both Canada and the U.S. 9


### I applaud the EPA for standing strongly 10


### against adversaries who openly deny manmade 11


### climate change. The Clean Power Plan is what 12



### America needs to move forward. America is one of 13



### the most powerful and influential countries on 14



### Earth. And with that said, the large

- scale 15


### decisions made by the American government tend to 16


### have a ripple effect. 17



### In the case of the Clean Power Plan if 18


### the government chooses not to go through with 19


### this plan the public health of the entire 20


### international community will be effectively put 21



### at risk. I, for one, as a member of the future 22

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### generation

-- well, the next generation, do not 1


### want to be held responsible and have to deal with 2


### the consequences of things from the other 3


### generatio ns before me. And I don't believe that 4


### my children in the future will want to either. 5


### A major flaw in the industry as a whole 6



### is that

-- many states have actually mentioned 7


### this; the emissions of one state can spread to 8



### other states. There's no concentra tion to hold 9


### things within borders. I believe that the EPA 10


### Clean Power Plan is a step in the right 11



### direction

. 12


### By limiting emissions produced by coal 13


### burning power plants, and switching some focus to 14


### renewable energy not only will American citizens 15



### be bene fitted economically, as well as in terms 16


### of public health, but so will the rest of the 17


### global community. 18


### The American influence is likely to 19


### spread and inspire other countries to take 20


### similar steps. America is on the forefront of 21


### beginning an energy revol ution. And it requires 22

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### that the American government recognize that the 1


### benefits really do outweigh the costs. A fear of 2


### change or a fear of possible repercussions is 3


### completely irrelevant because in order to take 4


### any successful step you need to take a ri sk. And 5



### because of that I would like to thank the EPA for 6


### proposing this initiative and encouraging it to 7



### move forward. 8



### Thank you. 9



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Rebecca. Next 10


### I'd like to call up Robin Mann and Nancy Kunz

11



### Merry, please. 12


### MS. MANN: Hi. My name is Robin Mann, R

13



### O

- B

- I

- N M

- A

- N

- N. I'm from Rosemont, 14


### Pennsylvania. I appreciate the opportunity to 15


### testify today. I strongly support the EPA moving 16


### forward to limit carbon pollution from existing 17



### power plants. 18



### I'm a Sierra Club volunteer, active a t 19


### local, state, and national levels, and currently 20



### serve on the Board of Directors . But I am also a 21


### grandmother of two beautiful little grandchildren 22

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### and that's what compels me to be here today. 1


### As many have said before me, we have a 2


### moral obligation to o ur children, grandchildren, 3


### and generations beyond, to take aggressive action 4


### to cut carbon pollution and prevent the most 5


### extreme climate disruption into which we are 6


### otherwise heading. 7


### We know that by failing to act more 8



### promptly to address carbon poll ution we have 9


### already committed many people, especially those 10



### in frontline communities with the least 11


### responsibility for causing the climate 12


### disruption, to harsher living conditions and 13



### massive dislocation. 14


### In sheltering the fossil fuels industries 15



### for so long we have also retarded the expansion 16


### of clean energy based industries and stifled job 17



### creation that could have benefited so many more 18



### in need of employment. 19


### I resent fossil fuel interests continuing 20



### efforts to obstruct action. Their well

- practiced 21



### ap proach is as predictable as it is manipulative 22

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### and misleading to put it generously. They are 1


### showing hostility where the conversation needs to 2



### be about transition assistance for workers and 3


### seeking to pit those who are concerned about 4


### leaving a livable pl anet to their kids against 5


### those who are concerned about paying their energy 6



### bills. 7


### Locally the Sierra Club is playing a 8


### supporting role with a coalition from the 9


### Environmental Justice Community of East Wick in 10


### Southwest Philadelphia, which is not only 11



### b urdened by legacy pollution and flooding 12


### problems, but is facing increasing threats from 13


### sea level rise and storm surge. 14


### One of their leaders is expected to 15


### testify here today, and more will be submitting 16


### comment. They have first hand appreciation for 17



### t he fact that many low income energy consumers 18


### are also living in frontline communities 19


### increasingly at risk from the effects of climate 20


### disruption. We need to confront their multiple 21



### challenges. 22

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### In preparation for this hearing I 1


### reviewed the report releas ed last month by the 2


### analysis group on the Clean Power Plan, which is 3


### informative about the industry's claims, 4


### specifically with regard to protecting low income 5


### energy consumers from negative impacts of the 6



### rule. They note that states are well

- equipped 7



### th rough longstanding utility rate making 8


### principles, practices, and programs to help 9


### protect low income customers when electricity 10



### costs increase. 11


### They also document the experience to date 12


### with the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, 13



### which in a monumental d isservice to its citizens, 14


### Pennsylvania opted not to join. 15


### Seeing RGGI as an indicator of the 16


### economic effects that may be anticipated from the 17



### Clean Power Plan the report concluded as follows. 18


### "Use of RGGI dollars to invest in energy 19


### efficiency ended up lowering regional electrical 20


### demand, lowering electricity prices, and lowering 21


### all consumer's payments for electricity. Not 22

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### just those who installed energy efficiency 1



### measures." 2


### These savings on electricity bills flow 3


### through the economy as increased c onsumer 4


### disposable income, from fewer dollars spent on 5


### energy bills, lower payments to out of state 6


### energy suppliers, and increased local spending or 7


### savings. 8



### Under the Clean Power Plan the states 9


### would also have the latitude in designing their 10



### programs to meet emission limits, to address 11



### transition assistance for workers, and make it a 12


### priority. 13



### Under the plan states have the 14


### opportunity to drive the transition in a way that 15


### will be just and fair to workers and to 16


### consumers. Yes, it will be important for public 17



### pressure to ensure those concerns are given 18


### priority. But working together we can do that. 19



### And we can do better. 20



### I urge EPA to strengthen the rule and set 21


### the bar even higher than 30 percent reduction by 22

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### 2030, and full recognize of the progress th at has 1


### been made to date and the urgency of the science 2



### tells us is needed. 3


### Thank you again for the opportunity. 4


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Robin. Nancy, 5


### it looks like you have somebody with you. 6



### MS. KUNZ

- MERRY: Yes. So, my name is 7



### Nancy Kunz

- Merry. Tha t's K

- U

- N

- Z, hyphen, Merry. 8


### And this is my four year old son, Jack. 9



### I'm a member of the New Jersey Chapter of 10


### Moms for Clean Air, and I took the day off from 11


### work and left my one year old daughter, Clair, 12


### home with my husband to be here today because 13



### this is so important. I did, however, bring a 14


### picture. 15


### The first thing I'd like to say is thank 16


### you for listening to testimony. Jack and I are 17



### honored to speak to you today. 18


### We live in Maplewood, New Jersey, and 19


### although we consider ourselves very lucky 20


### considering how much some families lost, 21


### Hurricane Sandy was devastating to our 22

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### neighborhood. We were out of power for 10 days 1


### and the neighborhood looked like a war zone. 2


### So many beautiful homes were destroyed, 3


### power lines down, fuel lines were literally miles 4



### long, and roads were closed for weeks. 5


### The most devastating, however, was how 6


### much it scared Jack. And the thought that these 7



### storms will be more and more common in his and 8


### Claire's future. Of course I was very happy that 9


### New York City and our bel oved Jersey Shore 10



### rebuilt, but the answer cannot be to build a 11


### stronger retaining wall or get a generator. We 12


### cannot be so shortsighted or so selfish. It is 13


### hard for me to believe that anyone, and 14


### especially anyone that has experienced one of 15



### these storm s firsthand is not doing everything 16


### that they can to clean up our air. 17


### What will we say to our children and our 18


### grandchildren when they ask us, what we helped to 19


### do to stop global warming? What will I say to 20


### Jack and Claire? Will I have to say yes, the 21



### s cience told us that we'll have more destructive 22

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### hurricanes, devastating droughts, and just 1


### terribly extreme weather, but we chose to ignore 2



### it? 3


### Will I have to say yes, the science told 4


### us that kids like you will have more asthma and 5



### health problems, and that you'll have to suffer 6



### unbearable heat, but no one cared? 7


### Will I have to say yes, the science told 8


### us that global warming will kill off entire 9


### species, but we were too selfish to listen? What 10


### answer can any of us possibly give that would 11



### make sense t o them if we let this happen? 12



### Or will I be able to tell them what could 13


### have happened; what could have happened if our 14


### government, along with the EPA, global 15


### government, scientists, and a bunch of moms and 16


### dads that love their children so very much didn't 17


### take strong steps in cleaning up our air. 18


### An essential step in limiting the impact 19


### to climate change is placing limits on carbon 20


### pollution from power plants. The EPA's Clean 21


### Power Plant Plan is an important first step in 22

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### addressing climate change. 1



### I as k that the EPA strengthens the Clean 2



### Power Plan and finalizes a rule that reduces 3


### carbon dioxide emissions 40 percent below 2005 4



### levels by 2020. 5


### My family keeps this picture of Jack 6


### holding hands with a polar bear out, as a 7



### constant reminder to us that h ow we live today 8


### will dramatically affect the future of our 9


### children and our planet. But Jack actually has 10



### an ask of his own. 11



### MR. KUNZ

- MERRY: Clean up our air for the 12



### kids. 13



### MS. KUNZ

- MERRY: Thanks again for your 14



### time. 15



### MR. KUNZ

- MERRY: And clean the air. 16


### Clean up our air for me and my sister, Claire. 17



### MS. KUNZ

- MERRY: Okay. Thank you very 18



### much. Thank you. 19



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you much. 20



### MS. KUNZ

- MERRY: Thank you. 21


### MR. NIEBLING: Next I'd like to call up 22

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### Chris Mayo and Rachel Morales, please. 1



### MR. MAYO: Good afternoon. My name is 2


### Christopher Mayo. That's C

- H

- R

- I

- S

- T

- O

- P

- H

- E

- R 3



### M

- A

- Y

- O. And I am a legal fellow at the Center 4


### for Biological Diversity. 5


### Here are some of our preliminary thoughts 6



### on the proposed rule and the overall 7


### administration climate pl an. 8


### The proposed rule is a significant step 9


### toward the mitigation of climate change, but is 10


### inadequate to address the immensity of the 11


### problem. This rule is neither stringent nor 12


### prompt enough to avoid the worst impacts of 13


### global climate disruption. Scie nce has 14



### demonstrated that we must lower our economy wide 15


### emissions to 50 percent below 1990 levels by 16


### 2020, giving us a medium chance of keeping 17


### warming to two degrees Celsius

. 18


### The 2030 goal of achieving reductions and 19


### the lenient state targets will fail t o prevent 20


### the climate change's worst effects. Greenhouse 21


### gases build up over decades and centuries to 22

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### create a strong cumulative effect, waiting 15 1


### years to achieve any meaningful reductions is 2



### unacceptable. 3


### Using 2005 emission levels as a baseline 4



### is a m istake for multiple reasons. First, the 5



### 2005 baseline will take credit for reductions 6


### that have already occurred as emissions have 7


### declined since their height in 2005. 8


### Second, the international community has 9


### agreed to use 1990 as the appropriate baselin e 10



### and we should follow suit. Scientists base their 11


### required reduction amounts on 1990 levels so it 12



### only makes sense to use these levels as the 13



### baseline for reductions. 14



### The proposed rule should more strongly 15


### encourage the reliance on renewable energy. 16



### Shi fting away from fossil fuels is the only way 17


### to successfully mitigate climate change. While 18


### industry representatives say that such a shift is 19


### impossible, this is simply not the case. 20



### Greenpeace has found that the U.S. could generate 21



### over 70 percent of it s electricity from renewable 22

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### energy by the year 2030. The EPA's targets for 1


### the use of renewables is far below our capacity. 2


### Some states are already producing more renewable 3


### energy than EPA projects. 4


### This rule should encourage further growth 5



### of renewable energy, not maintain the status quo. 6



### Coal dependent states should not get a free pass. 7


### The implementation of renewable energy in 8



### these states should be seen as a gateway to new 9


### industry, not a blockade to financial success. 10



### Increased use of natural gas powered 11


### generation will not result in 40 percent emission 12


### reductions. Methane leakage can happen at any 13


### point in the supply line, and the leakage rate is 14


### higher than EPA uses in its formulas. The leaked 15


### methane is up to 100 times more harmful than 16



### carbo n dioxide emissions. Increased use of 17


### natural gas would also mean an increase in 18


### fracking, further endangering the public and our 19


### precious freshwater resources

. 20


### The technology forcing requirements to 21


### the Clean Air Act should also be enforced by 22

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### requirin g increases in efficiency at existing 1



### natural gas plants. 2


### Finally, generating power using bio

- mass 3



### from trees should not be considered. This is a 4


### highly inefficient and carbon intensive process 5


### which will most likely increase atmospheric Co2 6



### concentrati ons for decades and centuries to come. 7


### The assumption that bio

- mass Co2 has no effect on 8


### the climate is scientifically indefensible and 9


### illogical, and neither the states nor the EPA 10


### should use this assumption in their calculations. 11



### While bio

- mass from tr ees may be, under stringent 12


### circumstances, renewable, most current industry 13


### practices are anything but clean or climate 14


### friendly. Thank you. 15


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Chris. Rachel. 16


### MS. MORALES: Hello. My name is Rachel 17



### Morales, spelled M

- O

- R

- A

- L

- E

- S. I'm an intern 18


### with Environment America as well as a lifelong

-- 19


### I grew up in the second most vulnerable city to 20


### climate change in the nation. 21


### The consequences of climate change are 22

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### being reaped where I grew up in Hampton Roads. 1


### Recurrent flooding has aff ected home and business 2


### proposed value, and it has begun to adversely 3


### affect decisions to install military 4


### infrastructure and continue running military 5


### operations there. 6


### This is scary. The military in Hampton 7


### Roads is such a large pillar of the economy. If 8


### carbon pollution continues to go undealt with my 9


### hometown will lose that very significant 10


### investment. Eventually sea level rise will 11



### destroy the beaches and farms I grew up on. The 12


### other two major economic sectors in Hampton 13



### Roads. 14


### As climate change goes unbridled the 15


### instances of lymes disease, reproductive, and 16



### immune disorders and asthma attacks will 17


### increase. This paints a very sad picture of 18


### poverty and illness for my friends and family in 19



### Chesapeake

. 20



### I believe in the Clean Power Plan. 21



### Prior itizing renewable energy and energy 22

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### efficiency will establish a diverse market of 1


### resources and create thousands of jobs in energy 2


### related sectors. I believe this rule gives us an 3


### opportunity to nurture innovation while 4


### protecting the health of our commun ities and 5



### economies. 6


### I ask the EPA to pursue carbon emission 7


### reductions up to 40 percent through the use of 8


### renewables and energy efficiency over nuclear and 9


### natural gas. I believe this, combined with 10


### public resources and training programs is the 11



### fastes t, safest, most cost effective way to 12


### transition America to a clean energy landscape. 13



### Thank you. 14


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I'd like 15


### to invite up Liz Geltman and Mary Crutchfield, 16


### please. Try to keep things moving here. Thank 17



### you. 18



### MS. GLASS

- GELTMAN : Thank you for giving 19


### me the opportunity to discuss the public health 20


### issues of carbon and U.S. proposed Clean Power 21



### Plan. 22

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### My name is Elizabeth Glass

- Geltman, G

- E

1



### L

- T

- M

- A

- N. And I am an Associate Professor and 2


### Director of Environmental and Occupational Health 3


### Sciences Program at the City University of New 4



### York School of Public Health, and the Urban 5


### School of Public Health at Hunter College. 6


### I am also an attorney with 30 years of 7


### experience in environmental law and policy. 8


### Climate change is undoubtedly one of the most 9


### significant public health concerns facing 10


### mankind. The human perils of climate change are 11


### becoming increasingly apparent from sea level 12


### rise and storm damage. 13


### In New York City, we are still feeling 14


### the after effects of Hurricane Sandy. I applaud 15


### efforts by U.S. EPA to reduce carbon emissions. 16



### I am, however, deeply concerned about 17


### certain aspects of the U.S. EPA plan. 18


### First, while I understand that focusing 19


### on carbon emissions from power plants is the 20


### Presidential mandate, focusing on car bon 21



### emissions to the exclusion of methane emissions 22

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### is problematic. 1


### Methane is also a potent greenhouse gas 2


### and it contributes to climate change. Focusing 3


### on carbon alone is like checking your car's gas 4


### tank and ignoring the oil level when the check 5


### engi ne light is on. 6



### Clean power must focus on both methane 7


### and carbon emissions. To the extent power plants 8



### use natural gas, and currently about 30 percent 9


### of our power plants already do, it is imperative 10


### that U.S. EPA promulgate and enforce regulations 11



### to en sure that the best available control 12


### technologies are used to detect, prevent, and 13



### control methane leakage from power plants and 14



### related infrastructure. 15


### Second, I am worried that components of 16



### U.S. EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan best system 17



### of emission re duction, or BSER, encourages 18


### unsustainable practices that will neither reduce 19


### climate change, nor best protect environment and 20



### human health. 21


### In particular I am alarmed that U.S. 22

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### EPA's emphasis on redispatch in block two of the 1



### BSER, excuse me, is a bad ide a. Redispatch 2


### encourages states to reduce carbon emissions by 3


### shifting from coal fired power plants to power 4



### plants that are fueled with natural gas. The 5


### U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts 6


### that most, if not all natural gas, will soon come 7



### fr om unconventional sources, primarily shale gas, 8


### using hydraulic fracturing, or what the public is 9


### calling fracked gas. 10


### The science on fracked gas remains 11



### controversial. It is unclear whether the 12


### lifecycle of fracked gas causes less greenhouse 13



### emissions t han those from other carbon based 14



### sources. It is unclear the extent to which 15


### fracked gas causes contamination of ground water 16



### and surface waters. It is unclear the extent to 17


### which fracked gas causes depletion of scarce 18



### water resources. 19



### In short, both t he health effects and the 20


### environmental effects of fracked gas are still 21



### very very unclear. The lack of clear and 22

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### convincing scientific consensus that the practice 1


### of using hydraulic fracturing to extract shale 2


### gas is safe, should cause us all pause. We must 3


### be sure that the health and environmental safety 4


### of shale gas extraction before we invest even 5


### more heavily in shifting our electric power 6


### plants from relying on coal to fracked gas to 7


### power our lives and our economy. 8


### Congress recognized the uncertain ties 9


### about water quality and quantity issues by asking 10


### U.S. EPA to conduct a study. At a very minimum 11


### it is irresponsible for U.S. EPA to encourage 12


### additional fracking infrastructure until U.S. EPA 13


### concludes its congressionally mandated drinking 14



### water stu dy on the impacts of shale gas 15


### extraction and lifecycle. 16


### It is also necessary that U.S. EPA 17


### completes the notice and comment process 18


### evaluating the promulgating of hydraulic 19


### fracturing chemical and mixture disclosure rules 20


### under TSCA before encouraging the building of 21



### more gas powered power plants. 22

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### The redispatch portion of Clean Power 1


### Plan currently lies heavily on expanding the 2


### drilling and further investing in fracked gas. 3


### Once built, the fracked gas dependent 4



### infrastructure would be difficult to undo. 5


### Converting even more of our power plants from 6



### coal to natural gas may lead to less carbon 7


### emissions, but the thirst for fracked gas could 8


### lead to serious quality

-- water quality and 9


### quantity issues. It is very important that we 10


### weight the investment in fracked gas that 11


### redispatch requires. 12



### Currently 30 percent of our power plants 13


### rely on natural gas. Thirty

- eight percent rely 14



### on coal. That means 60 percent of our economy 15


### could be relying on fracked gas if this is going 16



### on. In addition the Marcellus a nd Devonian 17


### Shales sit on top of the drinking water aquifer 18


### for 9 million people. Think of an incident where 19


### we had a deep water horizon caliber spill in the 20


### drinking water aquifer for 9 million people. 21



### The health effects of cleaner air would 22

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### be difficu lt to enjoy if there is no clean water 1


### to drink. We need to reconsider the redispatch 2



### program. 3


### I'm wrapping up. In short, I whole 4



### heartedly applaud the effort of U.S. EPA to 5



### reduce carbon based greenhouse gases, and I 6


### support the efforts to begin with power plants. 7


### Reducing carbon emissions is an important goal, 8



### and three of the blocks of BSER are well drafted. 9


### Efforts to make coal plants more efficient, 10


### encouraging zero and lower emissions for 11


### renewables like wind and solar, encouraging more 12



### demand s ide are important. Reducing dependence 13


### on coal will help reduce. But moving from Coal 14


### to natural gas as a bridge before we take 15


### adequate precautions to protect human health and 16


### the environment when they engage in shale gas is 17



### a mistake. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Th ank you. 19



### MS. GLASS

- GELTMAN: I caution that we do 20



### that and I thank you for your efforts. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 22

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### MS. GLASS

- GELTMAN: Let's start with a 1


### clean canon. If you have any questions I have a 2



### lot of

-- 3



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 4



### MS. GLASS

- GELTM AN:

-- citations as well 5



### as tables and facts. 6



### MR. NIEBLING: We welcome those in the 7



### written comments. 8



### MS. GLASS

- GELTMAN: I'll do that. Thank 9



### you. 10



### MR. NIEBLING: Mary. 11



### MS. CRUTCHFIELD: Well, she could have 12


### some of my time because mine is very short. I am 13


### Mary Crutchfield. That's spelled M

- A

- R

- Y C

- R

- U

14



### T

- C

- H

- F

- I

- E

- L

- D. And I'm with Sierra Club. 15



### MR. NIEBLING: Could you move the 16


### microphone. Thank you. 17



### MS. CRUTCHFIELD: Is that better? 18



### I come to speak to you today as a 19


### concerned citizen and property owner in Richmond, 20


### Virginia. 21



### I have already seen some of the effects 22

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### of climate change in my own small property. I 1



### have observed that we have had more intense 2


### storms with heavier rain fall and more frequency 3


### in the past five years than in previous year s. 4


### A few years ago when Hurricane Irene came 5



### through Richmond , I lost the entire fence along 6


### one side of my property. In another storm my 7


### next door neighbor had a tree fall on to the 8


### front of the house, which damaged windows, a 9



### porch, and part of the roof . It was a 10


### traumatizing experience for our whole 11


### neighborhood, and for the whole city to go 12



### through these storms and to see the damage that 13



### they caused. 14


### I have read that having more severe 15


### storms is one of the effects of climate change. 16



### Scientists have e stablished that carbon pollution 17


### is the main contributor to climate change. 18


### Fossil fuel powered plants produce 40 percent of 19


### the carbon pollution in our country. Therefore 20


### it is important to set a standard for the coal 21


### fired plants and all plants in orde r to prevent 22

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### more serious changes in our climate in the 1



### future. 2



### I'm also concerned about the effects of 3


### climate change on Virginia's coast. It's 4


### important to take measures to cut back on carbon 5


### pollution in order to prevent increased warming, 6



### sea level ri se, and flooding of Virginia's coast. 7


### It would be devastating to the tourist business 8


### of Virginia Beach, and to the Naval base in 9


### Norfolk, and if we had major flooding there. 10


### I have read that Virginia's coast is the 11


### second most vulnerable to flooding, aft er the 12



### Gulf coast. 13



### Lastly, I am concerned about health 14


### issues that are the consequence of carbon 15


### pollution in our environment. The state of 16


### Virginia has the highest rates of cases of asthma 17


### in the country. By the way, my sister

- in

- law and 18



### her daughter bo th have asthma. 19


### I think that if carbon pollution can be 20


### reduced by having limits at coal fired power 21


### plants that this will lower the number of asthma 22

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### cases in our state and in the whole country. I 1


### fully support the EPA in setting strong standards 2



### for li miting carbon pollution from power plants. 3



### Thank you. 4



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Thank you 5



### both. 6


### Next I'd like to invite up Richard Vesel 7


### and Shannon Minor, please. 8



### MR. VESEL SR.: Good afternoon, and thank 9


### you for this opportunity to speak briefly on a 10


### topic which has always been a priority for me. 11


### My name is Richard Vesel. That's spelled 12



### V

- E

- S

- E

- L. 13



### In one way or another I have been 14


### involved with technologies to improve energy 15


### efficiency and reduce greenhouse gas emissions 16


### from stationary sources for over 40 years. I'm 17



### older than I look. 18



### I'm very pleased by the Clean Power Plan 19



### approach which the EPA has taken, under which the 20



### states and the utilities within the states will 21


### create their own approaches to meet the overall 22

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### Co2 emissions reduction target that the EPA will 1


### be requiring. I see it as a variation on the 2


### theme and approach taken by the café standards in 3


### the transportation industry. Those standards set 4


### the bar and let the industry determine the 5


### technologies and the market approaches whi ch will 6


### best meet the final criteria of fuel efficiency, 7



### and hence the associated reductions in Co2. 8


### I'm currently chairman of a working group 9


### for power generation energy efficiency within a 10


### major international professional society. I have 11



### also recently spent four and a half years as a 12


### global product manager for power generation 13


### energy efficiency, within an international $40 14


### billion per year industrial technology company. 15


### There I helped to create a 360 page guide 16


### the efficient design of auxiliary systems in 17


### fossil fired power plants. 18


### I spent several years trying to get 19


### various efficiency improvements into widespread 20


### use by the industry and have repeatedly 21


### encountered a particular set of roadblocks. 22

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### There are estimates running as high as 1 billion 1



### tons of emitted Co2 which could have been avoided 2


### if the power generation industry had not been 3


### hampered by these counterproductive roadblocks to 4


### efficiency improvements. 5


### I will briefly address four roadblock 6



### issues where the EPA can use their influence to 7


### guid e, encourage, and assist the states in their 8


### utilities to most rapidly implement the changes 9



### needed to meet the proposed rules. 10


### The first roadblock. Within regulated 11


### utilities any fuel cost savings which might be 12


### created through efficiency improvements wo uld 13



### have to be returned to the power consumer, 14


### otherwise known as the rate base. This makes any 15


### efficiency improvement project have an automatic 16


### negative return on investment, and such projects 17


### never see the light of day. 18



### I would like to see the EPA enc ourage the 19



### states to allow some or all the financial 20


### benefits from efficiency improvements and Co2 21



### reductions to remain with the utilities so that a 22

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### positive ROI is possible and could then be used 1


### as a justification for the necessary capital 2


### projects which will have to be undertaken. 3


### The second roadblock. Efficiency 4


### improvement opportunities are very often 5


### identified by plant wide studies which examine a 6


### power station from head to toe for ways in which 7


### efficiency can be improved and promoted. 8



### However, man y states forbid the expenditure of 9



### funds on studies without their first being tied 10


### to a funded capital project. This puts the cart 11


### before the horse, since the utility would need to 12


### perform such a study in order to determine how 13


### best to spend their money i n an efficiency 14


### improvement program. 15



### I suggest that the EPA encourage the 16


### states to remove this type of impediment to 17


### efficiency improvement efforts and any Co2 18


### reduction targets. 19


### The third roadblock. Efficiency 20


### improvements often lead to real or calculat ed 21


### increases in net plant output. The reality, or 22

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### the fear of this is that a new source review is 1


### immediately triggered, and the pain and cost of 2


### the NSR is enough to kill any further progress 3


### down the efficiency improvement path. I would 4



### suggest to the EPA that the NSA trigger rules be 5


### amended to make an exception for any capacity 6


### improvements resulting explicitly from efficiency 7


### improvement projects. As long as all other 8



### emission standards continue to be met, as 9


### demonstrated by site emissions monitorin g the 10


### equipment. The regular site NSR schedule should 11



### remain in effect. 12



### The fourth roadblock. The focus of state 13


### utility regulators has most often been driven by 14


### keeping the delivered cost of power to the rate 15


### base at the lowest possible levels. Very of ten 16


### this drive has resulted in utility budget 17


### trimming with calculated savings to the quote, 18


### "typically consumer," unquote, of $2 per month, 19


### $5 per month, $10 per month. 20


### As a consequence, many facilities are 21


### operating with skeleton staff levels and with 22

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### equipment systems which have been kept in 1


### operation many years past obsolescence . I 2


### suggest that these state policies be reviewed in 3



### terms of a penny

- wise pound

- foolish approach , and 4


### thus worthy of modification or elimination. 5



### I suggest to the EPA that it encourage 6


### the states to adopt governance policies which do 7


### the following; require the generating units 8


### upgrade to the best available technologies for 9


### efficient operation. This usually means upgrades 10



### to the plant controls and electrical mechanical 11



### auxil iary systems, as well as to the basic steam 12


### water cycle equipment itself. Allow for 13


### spreading the cost of such improvements into the 14


### rate base at nominal levels. Consumers routinely 15


### see upward variations to their essential 16



### utilities such as cable TV, int ernet, cell 17


### phones, et cetera, without any greater social 18


### benefit other than entertainment and the improved 19


### profitability of the service providers. 20


### Conversely an electric bill that goes up 21


### one to five percent will be down in the financial 22

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### noise of most hou seholds, yet could greatly 1


### benefit the implementation of Co2 reductions from 2


### the one commodity most essential to our modern 3


### way of life. 4


### Final paragraph. Okay. Energy sector 5


### Co2 footprints are a concern for society at large 6



### and remedial action should b e borne by all in 7


### some measure. Not just by a power industry 8


### hampered through selective financial constraints. 9


### Artificial regulatory encumbrances such as the 10


### ones I have mentioned are frequently used to 11


### manufacture device of controversies regarding the 12



### s haring of environmental responsibility between 13



### power producers and power consumers. I hope that 14


### the EPA can somehow address these issues as part 15



### of the Clean Power Plan. 16


### Thank you for listening to my concerns 17


### and suggestions. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, R ichard, and we 19


### encourage you to submit as written comments, some 20


### of those technical reports, the 360 page one you 21


### were mentioning. 22

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### Shannon, please. 1



### MS. MINOR: Hello. How are you? My name 2



### is Shannon Minor. That's S

- H

- A

- N

- N

- O

- N, Minor is 3



### M

- I

- N

- O

- R. 4



### An d I am a student at Virginia 5



### Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia. I 6


### am concerned with the issue of climate change and 7



### believe that the United States Government must 8


### make this a top priority. 9



### I have traveled across the country and 10


### have enjoyed ca mping in numerous national parks 11


### throughout my entire life. My dream, though, is 12


### to finally one day go to Glacier National Park in 13



### Montana. 14


### I have felt the pressure to do quickly 15


### with the looming threat of the glaciers melting 16


### away at an increased rate. My peers, family 17


### members, young and old, and future generations 18


### should live on a planet where the government 19


### leads an example of respecting and protecting the 20



### environment. 21


### Public transportation, education, and 22

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### healthcare are just to name a few importan t 1


### topics all connected under the umbrella of the 2



### environment. I am fulfilling my responsibility 3


### today as a citizen by standing here and talking 4


### to you, and just standing up for Mother Nature. 5


### I believe that it is time for the government as 6



### well to take r esponsibility on the larger scale. 7


### Thank you very much for your time. Have 8



### a great day. 9



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Shannon. Thank 10



### you both. 11


### Next I'd like to invite up William 12


### Cozzens and Ronald Schlesinger, please. 13


### MR. COZZENS: My name is William Cozz ens. 14



### It's William, W

- I

- L

- L

- I

- A

- M. Cozzens is spelled 15



### C

- O

- Z

- Z

- E

- N

- S. 16



### I'm a retiree and a former IT consultant 17


### to the electric and gas utility industry, and 18


### have worked in both fossil fired power plants and 19


### also in nuclear plants. 20



### I fully support the eff orts of the body 21


### EPA to reduce carbon dioxide and other gasses 22

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### which are contributing to global warming. I 1


### believe climate change is a very serious threat 2


### both to humanity and to the larger environment. 3


### In this respect I support the intent of the EPA's 4



### r egulations to reduce carbon dioxide from fossil 5


### fired power plants. 6


### However, I'm disappointed in several 7


### aspects of the proposed regulations. These 8


### relate to number one, the timeframe specified in 9


### the regulations and number two, the percent 10



### reductions on the carbon dioxide reductions in 11


### the regulations. 12



### In terms of timeframe there are two 13


### issues I see. One, the year 2030 is a full 16 14


### years away. That is a huge amount of time for 15


### the utility industry to implement efforts to 16


### reduce carbon dioxide pollutio n, especially with 17


### the measure being 30 percent reduction. 18


### The second aspect is the base year of 19


### 2005 is problematic. Many utilities, since 2005, 20


### have closed coal fire power plants, largely due 21


### to the obsolescence and inefficiency of some of 22

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### these plants , and other market changes. So in 1


### that respect they would be receiving, as I 2


### understand it under the regulations, automatic 3


### credit for those plants that have already been 4


### closed due to these market and engineering 5



### forces. 6



### The second aspect, percent reduct ion in 7


### pollution, a 30 percent reduction in my mind is a 8


### very soft target. Especially over a 16 year 9


### timeframe. There should be more aggressive 10


### targets incorporated in the regulations. 11


### Without any regulation utilities will 12



### probably have reduced carbon dioxide from coal 13


### fired power plants by 30 percent by the 2030 due 14


### to the age and inefficiency of these plants and 15


### the availability of alternative energy sources, 16


### both fracked gas, which I agree with other 17


### commentators, is problematic, but also due to the 18


### dropping costs of solar and wind related energy. 19


### If 2030 is to remain the target date for 20


### EPA I believe we should be targeting a 70 to 80 21


### percent reduction in carbon dioxide from coal 22

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### fired power plants. In my mind these more 1


### aggressive targets will help stimulate both the 2


### scientific engineering and market response to 3


### implement more clean and efficient energy 4



### sources. 5


### The cost of solar and wind generated 6


### energy are already dropping rapidly. In many 7


### markets they are already competitive with fossil 8



### fuel f ired energy and with aggressive EPA 9


### targets, that will stimulate further innovation 10


### and development of these sources, allowing them 11


### to represent a much higher percentage of the 12


### power provided by the utility industry. Thank 13



### you. 14



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 15



### MR. SCHLESINGER: Good afternoon. My 16


### name is Ronald Schlesinger, R

- O

- N

- A

- L

- D , 17


### Schlesinger, S

- C

- H

- L

- E

- S

- I

- N

- G

- E

- R. 18


### I am just representing myself. I have no 19


### organization that I'm representing. 20


### I'm just essentially very sick and tired 21


### of everyone saying, no, it can't be done. It's 22

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### about time everyone gets to the idea that at 1



### least let's try. And I am grateful for EPA for 2


### establishing, or for trying to get this rule set. 3


### We do have 16 years to get it implemented and I 4



### do not understand at all why the ene rgy companies 5


### are fighting so hard against it. 6


### I'm just thinking back a couple of years 7


### ago. If the naysayers had their way we would 8


### still be riding in horses and buggies because the 9



### blacksmiths would have said no to automobiles. 10


### Bringing it up to mor e modern times, if

- 11



### - I remember not too long ago there was such a 12


### loud noise against kneeling buses. Yet today I 13


### think it's very hard to find a bus that does not 14



### kneel, all because we had the gumption to say, 15


### yes we can and yes we will. I think this is 16


### something that we really need to do. And I'm 17


### grateful, again, as I said, for EPA doing this 18



### rule. 19



### I'm also

-- I like to travel to national 20



### parks and I've been to Yellow Stone and Great 21



### Smokies, and Glacier, and I've not been to 22

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### Yosemite. It's one of my g oals that I'd like to 1


### do one of these days. And I'd like to see these 2


### national parks in the vistas that when they were 3



### first discovered. And I don't like the idea of 4


### all the haze and smog that we sometimes have to 5


### put up with because of coal fired plants spewing 6



### out all these emissions. 7


### So thank you very much for your time. 8



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you both. Next I'd 9


### like to invite up Scott Burger and Robert Young. 10


### MR. BURGER: Good afternoon. My name is 11



### Scott Burger. That's S

- C

- O

- T

- T, and then B

- U

- R

12



### G

- E

- R. I'm a member of the Sierra Club. 13


### I grew up in Norfolk, Virginia and I live 14


### in Richmond, Virginia. I have friends and family 15


### in Norfolk who will be negatively affected by 16


### rising sea levels and climate disruption caused 17


### by increased carbon levels. 18


### In Richmond my family and I suffer and 19


### experience illness due to excessive air pollution 20



### and smog. Most notably from power plants to the 21



### Southwest of us. 22

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### In addition I'm concerned about the water 1


### pollution in the James River, which I live very 2



### close to. Mercury level is a concern. 3



### The coal trains, the incessant coal 4


### trains, I see them go by all the time. The bad 5


### joke is I'm watching West Virginia go by. 6


### They're a constant reminder of the pollution that 7



### surrounds us. It's worth noting how the coal 8



### tra ffic, the coal train traffic also interferes 9


### with plans for more and better passenger rail. 10


### People often complain about the traffic in 11


### Northern Virginia. And until we get rid of that 12


### Gordian Knot of energy policy and transportation 13


### policy, I think I'm af raid we're going to see 14


### more of it. We need to have the better passenger 15



### rail. 16



### You know,, it doesn't have to be this 17



### way. In 2009 I installed solar on my house. I 18


### employed neighbors by doing so. I also increased 19


### my neighborhood's energy efficiency and disaster 20


### recover ability by doing so. 21


### There is a certain amount of resiliency 22

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### that comes from going to cleaner power. You 1


### heard some people speak earlier about the 2


### hurricanes that come through Richmond, and 3


### certainly Norfolk. And we've been very lucky so 4



### far and I'm very concerned about the category 5 5


### hurricane that comes through. I don't think 6


### Virginia Beach has seen one of those in maybe 100 7


### years. Whole spits of land in Hampton Roads were 8


### formed by hurricanes. 9



### And, you know, regardless of what you 10



### th ink about the effects of climate change on 11


### weather, I am concerned about the ability to 12


### respond, to be resilient in the face of such 13



### disasters. And that's where solar and wind can 14



### help out a whole lot. 15


### That's it. I encourage the country to go 16



### to solar an d clean energy, and I appreciate your 17


### time. Thank you. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Scott. Robert. 19


### MR. YOUNG: Hi. My name is Robert Young 20


### and I'm a youth leader with the Alliance for 21


### Climate Education. You may remember me from the 22

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### last hearing we had her e. 1



### I've always loved spending time with my 2


### family in nature. I started volunteering at my 3



### local nature center when I was nine, and it was 4



### around that time when I first learned about 5


### climate change. I was terrified by the impacts 6


### climate change could have on the natural world I 7



### cared so much about. And so I began to learn as 8



### much as I could about the issue. 9


### In the nine years since then I've learned 10



### a lot. But most of all I've come to realize that 11


### the fight against climate change is not just 12


### about saving the natural world. It's also about 13


### saving me, my generation, and our future as a 14


### globe. And that is why you must issue the most 15


### ambitious power plant carbon dioxide emissions 16


### rule possible, in order to mitigate climate 17



### change and protect our future from its 18


### devastating impacts. 19


### The fact is that time is running out. 20


### Our nation has been ignoring reality and hitting 21



### the snooze button on climate action for far too 22

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### long. It's time to wake up and make the 1


### responsible decision. 2


### Climate change is the single g reatest 3


### challenge of this century and we are running out 4


### of time to overcome it. The most recent report 5


### by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 6


### stated that we must cut emissions by 40 to 70 7


### percent by 2050 in order to limit a global mean 8



### temperat ure rise to 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit , the 9


### maximum increase that will avoid the catastrophic 10


### impacts of climate change. 11


### A 30 percent reduction from the United 12


### States power plants is a very good step in this 13


### direction. And these impacts are not the kind 14



### that will just hurt the polar bears. I'm not 15


### here to ask you to save the trees. My generation 16



### is the one that will have to deal with the 17


### destructive impacts of our negligence up to this 18


### point, including the collapse of ice sheets, mass 19


### plant and animal extinc tion, food shortages, 20


### flooding, and extreme weather events. 21


### Human society and especially our sources 22

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### of energy have been dumping greenhouse gases into 1


### the atmosphere without a care for more than a 2



### century and our planet can no longer tolerate the 3



### abuse. 4



### B ut change is possible. And climate 5


### change is as much of an opportunity for our 6



### nation as it is a challenge . Having led my high 7



### school's environmental club and worked with other 8


### concerned youth nationwide through the Alliance 9



### for Climate Education, I can confidently say that 10


### hope is still alive. Especially among young 11



### people. 12



### Grassroots action, cleaner sources of 13


### energy, and technological breakthroughs continue 14



### to lead us towards a more sustainable future. 15


### And now as I begin at Stamford University in a 16



### few weeks I hope to have the chance to create 17


### some of the incredible technological innovations 18


### that move us closer towards this future. But you 19


### have to give us that chance. 20



### If our government, of the people, by the 21



### people, for the people, does not represe nt our 22

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### future in fighting climate change it hardly 1



### matters what I or anyone my age does. Although 2


### no one can promise that this process will be 3


### easy, it is clear that the long

- term benefits of 4


### taking action vastly outweigh any short

- term 5



### economic concerns. 6


### Business as usual simply isn't enough 7



### anymore . And this opportunity to clean up our 8


### power plants is truly one of our final chances to 9


### avoid the devastating impacts that climate change 10



### will have on our future. 11


### My generation is counting on you to make 12


### the responsible decision. Please issue an 13


### ambitious final carbon pollution standard for 14


### existing power plants. Thank you. 15



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Robert. Next 16


### I'd like to call up, please, Coryn Wolk and Dede 17



### Smith. 18


### MR. WOLK: My name is Coryn Wolk, C

- O

- R

19



### Y

- N W

- O

- L

- K. And I represent Clean Air Council, 20


### a Pennsylvania nonprofit organization that 21


### advocates for everyone's right to breathe clean 22

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### air. 1



### The Council has serious concerns about 2


### EPA's proposed carbon rule. It is vital that EPA 3


### finally take co ncrete enforceable steps to 4



### restrict carbon emissions and slow climate 5


### change. However, while the carbon rule would 6


### indeed restrict carbon emissions, it pushes 7


### increased natural gas drilling as a viable 8


### alternative to burning coal. 9



### There are numerous iss ues with this but 10


### I'll start with the climate impacts. According 11


### to EPA's figures, at 3.2 percent leakage of 12



### methane, natural gas ceases to be better for the 13



### climate than coal. Estimates of methane leakage 14


### rates vary widely, but a recent study by Howarth 15


### et al., at Cornell University, found that their 16


### own previous estimate of 3.3 methane leakage was 17



### reasonable but probably low. 18


### So already, using conservative estimates, 19


### switching to natural gas from coal provides no 20


### advantages in fighting climate change. 21


### However the reality is even less 22

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### positive. The figures currently used by EPA put 1


### methane at 21 times the global warming potential 2


### of carbon dioxide over 100 year time span

. 3


### However, the most recent IPCC report estimated 4


### that methane's global warming po tential is 5


### actually 34 times that of carbon dioxide in the 6


### hundred year time frame. 7


### EPA has had plenty of time to update its 8


### science, as even the previous IPCC report put 9


### methane's global warming potential at 25. One 10


### wonders when EPA will choose to updat e the 11


### figures on which it bases such crucial 12



### calculations. 13


### Furthermore, given that the next few 14


### decades are critical for stopping climate 15


### change's momentum, the shorter time frame is more 16


### relevant in choosing the course of action. The 17



### IPCC says that there is no scientific argument 18


### for preferring a hundred year measurement. In 19


### the 20 year time frame methane has 86 times the 20


### global warming potential of carbon dioxide. 21



### From the same Cornell study of methane 22

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### emissions, the influence of today's emissions on 1


### global warming 200 or 300 years into the future 2


### will largely reflect carbon dioxide and not 3



### methane, unless the emissions of methane lead to 4


### tipping points in a fundamental change in the 5


### climate system. And that could happen as early 6



### as within the next tw o to three decades. 7



### The inclination to switch from one finite 8


### climate forcing fossil fuel to another is already 9


### happening without EPA's encouragement. In New 10


### Jersey, because of its outside air pollution, the 11


### coal fired B.L. England Plant must either shu t 12


### down or be repowered with natural gas. With the 13



### existence of renewable alternatives and New 14


### Jersey's vulnerability to climate change there 15



### should be sufficient impetus to switch from 16



### fossil fuels. 17


### Instead, the state government is pushing 18



### for the constru ction of a natural gas pipeline 19


### through the pinelands, the pristine and priceless 20



### natural and recreational resource, in order to 21


### repower the plant with natural gas. 22

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### Natural gas extraction to fuel those 1


### plants is already happening at a frenetic place 2



### in P ennsylvania. Despite our governor's 3


### opposition to this rule, the carbon rule's 4


### promotion of natural gas aligns with our state 5


### government's modus operandi. 6



### Governor Corbett's administration plans 7


### to open more public waterways to drilling and 8



### overturned a moratorium on additional gas leaks 9


### as on state lands, despite warnings from previous 10



### DCNR officials that there are no areas left that 11


### could be drilled without risking serious 12


### environmental impacts. 13


### EPA is touting the public health benefits 14



### of decreased coal use, but what about the growing 15


### public health impacts from natural gas 16


### exploitation. Until you've been exposed to the 17


### realities of fossil fuel extraction it is easy to 18


### discuss them in abstract figures of prices and 19



### reserves. 20


### As a Pennsylvanian active in 21


### environmental advocacy I have met people 22

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### suffering the impacts of Pennsylvania's fracking 1


### boom. Besides the people whose water supplies 2



### have been rendered nonpotable, and those who can 3


### no longer safely live in their homes because of 4


### high ambient metha ne and VOC levels, there are 5


### thousands of people who chose to live rural areas 6


### for the peacefulness and natural environment only 7


### to have that quiet broken by constant truck 8


### traffic, flaring, and high intensity lighting 9


### shining through their windows. 10



### While the pace of natural gas drilling 11



### needs no encouragement, governmental enforcement 12


### of public health and environmental protections 13



### has lagged. Last month reports surfaced that 14


### Pennsylvania Department of Health officials were 15


### instructed to not even speak to residents 16


### concerned that their health is being impacted by 17


### natural gas drilling. 18



### Last week the Office of the State Auditor 19


### General released a scathing report on 20


### Pennsylvania DEP oversight of natural gas 21


### drilling. The Auditor General compared DEP's 22

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### ability to oversee natural gas drilling to 1


### firefighters trying to put out a five alarm fire 2


### with a 20 foot garden hose. 3


### Despite longstanding concerns about 4


### public health impacts, no widespread 5


### recordkeeping or major study of health impacts of 6


### natural gas exploi tation exists. 7



### Clean Air Council believes that decisive 8


### EPA action on climate change, namely limiting 9


### greenhouse gas emissions is essential. However, 10


### the proposed rule does not constitute that. EPA 11


### needs to use its authority to create and enforce 12



### regul ations that will actually bring us closer to 13


### solving the climate crisis. 14



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 15


### MS. SMITH: Good afternoon. My name is 16



### Dede Smith, and I'm here from Charlottesville
, 17


### Virginia where I am an elected official of City 18


### Council and Vice May or. 19


### I've come to add my voice to the chorus 20



### of concerned citizens and elected officials who 21


### support new limits on carbon pollution. As a 22

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### longtime resident of Charlottesville , home to 1



### Thomas Jefferson's Monticello , I find it fitting 2



### that in his Declaration of Independence Jefferson 3


### proclaims, "Life, liberty , and the pursuit of 4


### happiness," as three inalienable rights. 5


### I say that because just last week 6


### Charlottesville was named America's Happiest 7


### City. T.J. would be proud. 8



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Congratula tions. 9



### MS. SMITH: Thank you. 10



### We have also been named the best college 11



### town, one of the healthiest small cities, best 12


### town for food and wine lovers, best place to 13


### retire, and the list goes on and on, which is why 14


### I'm here today to support stricter regulati ons on 15


### existing power plants. 16



### You see, the reason Charlottesville is so 17


### happy is that we have a very high quality of 18


### life. And a big part of that is a commitment to 19


### a high quality environment. Charlottesville City 20


### Government has in the last five years, reduced 21


### our own carbon footprint by 30 percent. Even in 22

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### the face of a rising population. And we're not 1



### done yet. 2


### Just weeks ago we launched an initiative 3



### called solarized Charlottesville, in which 4


### through bulk purchasing and partnerships, every 5



### new

-- w e can offer, excuse me, solar 6



### installations to residential homes at half the 7



### cost. 8


### In our own facilities every new building 9



### is LEED certified and highly energy efficient. 10


### In addition we offer tax credits and exemptions 11


### for residential and commercial energ y efficiency, 12


### reestablished a revolving loan program for 13


### commercial solar retrofits, as well as grants for 14


### new innovative projects, such as a publically 15


### available fast charge station for electric cars. 16


### All toward our goal of further reducing our local 17



### car bon footprint. 18


### And we do this because we firmly believe 19


### that our quality of life, which makes us so 20


### happy, is intricately linked to air quality. 21


### But in truth, for city government it is 22

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### not just about happiness. It's an economic issue 1



### as well. Like man y cities, tourism is a major 2


### economic engine in Charlottesville, and much of 3


### our tourism depends on air quality because a lot 4


### of our tourist attractions are outdoors. If you 5



### haven't yet visited any of the 30 wineries 6


### surrounding Charlottesville, you shoul d. And you 7



### don't even have to like wine because the views 8


### are so spectacular. Views that are dependent on 9



### clean, clear, air. 10


### And if you question whether air quality 11


### matters for viewscapes, just go up to the 12



### Shenandoah National Park on a particularly smog gy 13


### day, when the dirty emissions blow in from the 14



### Midwest power plants, that limit the viewscape to 15


### just a few miles when in fact you should be able 16



### to see 100 miles. 17


### But tourism isn’t the only economic 18



### reason Charlottesville needs clean air. You see, 19



### we are the home to the University of Virginia, 20



### the Commonwealth's flagship university, with its 21


### nationally recognized medical center, one of the 22

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### few tertiary hospitals in the state. UVA 1


### Hospital treats serious medical conditions, 2


### including the all too common forms of lung 3



### disease like emphysema and lung cancer, and 4


### shocking levels of chronic debilitating asthma. 5



### All life

- threatening for the many UVA Hospital 6


### patients who visit Charlottesville, and all 7


### impacted by air quality. 8


### And that's why Charlottesville i s 9


### dedicated to doing our part to improving air 10


### quality by reducing our own carbon footprint. 11



### But of course we have no control over the coal 12


### burning power plants upwind from us. 13



### But you do. And that's why we appeal to 14


### you to put in a strong clean power plan so that 15



### we all can breathe a little easier. 16



### And I've attached to my statement today, 17


### two resolutions approved unanimously by city 18


### council in support of the EPA to enforce and 19


### strengthen the Clean Air Act. Thank you very 20



### much. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you . And please 22

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### submit those to the registration desk so we can 1



### include them in the record. 2



### MS. SMITH: Thank you. 3



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I would 4


### like to invite up Chris Durrer and Tim Whitcomb, 5



### please. 6


### MR. WHITCOMBE: Well, my name is Timothy 7



### Whit comb. My last name is spelled W

- H

- I

- T

- C

- O

- M

8



### B

- E. 9


### I live in Henrico, Virginia, which is a 10



### suburb of Richmond. I'm a member of the Sierra 11


### Club, but today I'm speaking for myself today. 12


### I would like to thank you for the 13


### opportunity to testify today. Ever y year coal 14


### fired power plants are dumping over 2 billion 15


### tons of dangerous carbon pollution and other 16


### pollutants into the air. These power plants are 17


### emitting carbon dioxide but they also emit soot, 18


### particulates, sulfuric acid, and heavy metals and 19



### other toxins into the air. 20


### Mercury is emitted from these coal fired 21


### power plants, and mercury is known to cause 22

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### mental retardation. The Clean Power Plan 1


### proposed by President Obama and the EPA on June 2


### 2nd, will slash carbon pollution from power 3


### plants and will force the phase out of a large 4


### number of coal fired power plants. 5


### As a consequence it will also prevent 6



### 150,000 asthmas attacks and 6,600 premature 7



### deaths annually by the year 2030. 8



### There are many people who say that 9


### restricting power plants and their em issions will 10


### be very expensive and will harm the U.S. economy. 11


### They say it will raise electric rates 12



### substantiall y and pose big problems for 13


### businesses and for consumers. This view ignores 14


### the fact that coal pollution in this country is 15


### currently causing more than $100 billion annually 16



### in healthcare costs. In fact I have read that 17



### the Clean Power Plan will have benefits of about 18


### $74 billion annually by 2030, where as its costs 19


### will be only $8 billion annually. 20



### Richmond , Virginia has four coal fired 21



### power plants within 25 miles of the city. 22

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### There's a major coal fired power plant in 1


### Chesterfield County, and there is also a coal 2


### fired power plant on the campus of the University 3



### of Richmond. I've been told that Richmond has 4


### twice been named the asthma capit ol of the United 5


### States, due to its high prevalence of asthma. 6


### In July 2013 I began a walking program to 7


### help me lose weight and to improve my health. I 8


### was taking a brisk walk of about three miles each 9



### and every day. 10


### Then in October 2013 I got a bad coug h. 11


### My doctor diagnosed me with bronchitis. The 12


### cough was so bad that I was forced to discontinue 13


### my walking program. I was not able to walk for 14


### about six months. Thankfully I'm now doing my 15


### walk around the neighborhood again, although I'm 16


### walking at a slower pace than I had been walking 17



### last year. 18


### The Hampton Roads area of Virginia is 19


### having big problems due to sea level rise as a 20


### result of global warming. I've seen a video of 21


### flooding in Norfolk. This video showed streets 22

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### and businesses and homes and cars being flooded. 1


### One young woman in the video said she was trapped 2


### in her house for a week due to the flooding. 3



### Our sailors and Naval officers live in 4



### Norfolk and thereabouts. Do we really want the 5



### homes and cars of our sailors and Naval officers 6



### b eing flooded on a regular basis? 7


### I ask you to implement the Clean Power 8


### Plan and in fact exceed the 30 percent reduction 9


### in carbon emissions by 2030. Global warming is a 10


### very serious and ongoing problem, and we need 11



### severe reductions in carbon emissions as soon as 12


### possible. 13



### I would say that we need to reduce carbon 14


### emissions by at least 50 percent by the year 15


### 2030. I say this for these reasons. Global 16


### warming is causing more powerful storms and these 17


### enhanced hurricanes and tornadoes are costing us 18



### li ves and are costing FEMA and state and local 19


### emergency agencies a lot of money. 20


### Also this country has already reduced 21


### carbon emissions by 12 to 15 percent since 2005, 22

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### and this shows that large levels of reduction are 1


### in fact possible. 2



### Also the EPA estima tes for greater 3


### efficiency and for levels

-- and for more 4


### alternative energies in the 50 states appear to 5


### be low, these estimates. We can put many many 6


### more wind turbines and also solar panels out 7



### there. 8



### And also if we have a level of carbon 9



### reduction at 50 percent, then the rest of the 10


### world will really notice. The USA will be 11


### setting a great example and the rest of the world 12


### will then be more likely to follow our example. 13


### Thank you for your time and for your 14



### consideration. 15


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Ti m. 16



### MR. DURRER: Okay. Good afternoon. My 17



### name is Chris, with a C, Durrer, D as in David, 18



### U

- R

- R

- E

- R. I live in Richmond, Virginia, 19


### affiliated with the Sierra Club, and I'm just 20


### talking from some personal experiences. 21


### I was born at UVA Hospital. I'm no t sure 22

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### it's flagship because Virginia Commonwealth is 1


### moving that way too now. 2


### But anyway, I was born in that area. My 3


### grandparents had a farm in Schuyler, which is the 4



### southern part of Albemarle County, Walton's 5


### Mountain Museum, and some things like th at. So I 6


### grew up summers there, working and having fun and 7


### things like that. 8


### And over time grandparent's farm, they're 9



### on a small basis, 87 and a half acres, house, 10


### basic farmhouse that was a log cabin converted, 11



### they farmed there from the '30s to about t he 12


### '70s, and my sister and I were able to take over 13



### the farm and we have a tree farm there. 14



### And I noticed over there, with the 15


### drought, about 10 years ago, something like that, 16


### it went for four and a half years in Central 17


### Virginia. Green Creek, which bord ers the 18


### property, was totally dry. My sister and I 19



### walked for about a mile in the bed there of that 20


### creek. That creek is pretty big. It's 25 feet 21


### wide when it's at full capacity. If flows into 22

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### the Rockfish River, which flows into the James 1



### River. So t here was a lot of decrease there at 2


### that time. So really concerned about that and 3


### they were calling and nobody in the area had ever 4


### heard of that happening, so it was at least a 500 5


### year flood. I mean, a 500 year drought, if not 6



### more there. 7



### So that's an example. I work in 8


### healthcare, healthcare management in the public 9


### health hospitals. I was in Eastern North 10


### Carolina for quite a time and we had Fran and 11


### Floyd come through there. Wilson was the place I 12


### worked the hospital, and it was a devastating 13



### effe ct for several days. Our hospital served 14



### coffee, breakfast, and food, because we were 15


### basically the only place that had backup 16


### generators. And that was like one or two years 17


### apart, Fran and Floyd. And of course it hit the 18



### whole coast there, of North Car olina. So that's 19


### just an example of my experiences there. And of 20



### course you have a lot of loss with the flood 21


### insurance, the loss of work, the loss of housing, 22

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### areas like that. 1


### And then lastly, having been a healthcare 2


### administrator, public health hospit als, I see the 3


### increase in asthma, allergies, and lung cancer as 4


### a result of carbon pollution. So we appreciate 5


### you addressing this problem. We need to move 6



### forward and at least set some goal because I 7


### don't think it's going to get any better the way 8



### we are going. 9


### So that's basically what I have to say. 10


### Appreciate the opportunity, but just have one 11


### kind of a personal example. One of my relatives 12


### traveled to China recently on business, and when 13



### he returned I said, what's the one word that 14



### would describe your visit or China, things like 15



### that. And he said, S

- M

- O

- G, smog. I go, oh my 16



### gosh. 17



### So let's don't move like China. We love 18



### the folks there, but we don't need that. 19


### Thank you for the opportunity. 20


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I'd like 21



### to invite u p Erin Fagan and Ryan Arnold, please. 22

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### MS. FAGAN: Hi. My name is Erin Fagan, 1



### E

- R

- I

- N F

- A

- G

- A

- N. And I'm here today from 2


### Norfolk, Virginia. I came with the Sierra Club, 3


### and also as the sustainability coordinator for 4


### Old Dominion University. But right n ow I am just 5


### speaking as a human being who has asthma. 6



### When I was very young I started 7


### developing respiratory issues when I lived in 8



### Dover, Delaware. And the doctors at Kent General 9


### Hospital decided that it was because of the air 10


### pollution there. 11



### So my fa mily, my mom and my dad, when 12


### they were just about my age between 22 and 24, 13



### they had to relocate and so they came to 14


### Virginia, strictly because I absolutely could not 15


### breathe there with all of the pollution. 16



### So fast

- forward to now, when I'm living 17



### in Norf olk attending Old Dominion. I have a 18


### giant coal pier that is essentially in my 19



### backyard. I'm glad that somebody has already 20


### referenced all of the flooding in Norfolk, 21



### because I have waded home through knee

- deep water 22

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### regularly. It only takes a little bi t of a rain 1



### storm to do that, and through chest deep water a 2


### couple of times during hurricanes. 3



### My house has been flooded before, my car 4


### has been eaten up by the brackish flood water, 5


### and I have kayaked down the middle of Hampton 6



### Boulevard, which is our ma in street, multiple 7


### times. And this is definitely everyday life in 8



### Norfolk. 9


### In my house I can wipe my fingers across 10


### my house on the outside and there is coal soot 11


### covering my hand after I do that. In fact, I 12


### already had to leave Room B, on the other sid e 13


### because I needed to curb an oncoming asthma 14



### attack while I was here. 15


### And that's just a very normal thing in 16


### Norfolk, and really all of the cities in this 17


### area that I have experienced. So today I'm here 18


### in support of the Clean Power Plan. I know that 19



### as a nation we pride ourselves on being fast 20


### acting and innovative, and this is really one of 21


### those opportunities when we can set an example 22

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### that we can be proud of and that others can 1



### hopefully follow. Thank you. 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 3



### MR. ARNOLD: My name is Ryan Arnold, R

- Y

4



### A

- N A

- R

- N

- O

- L

- D. Thank you for the chance to 5



### speak here today. 6


### Climate change is a threat to national 7


### and global security, a threat to public health, 8


### and a threat to our economy according to senior 9


### military leaders, the CDC, and financial leaders 10


### including former Treasury Secretaries. 11


### A recent report from the American 12



### Association for the advancement of science sums 13


### it up this way; we are at risk of pushing our 14


### climate system toward abrupt, unpredictable, and 15


### potentially irrever sible changes with highly 16


### damaging impacts. The sooner we act, the lower 17



### the cost, and the lower the risk. 18


### Now this is not news. I've been hearing 19


### most of it since I was in elementary school in 20


### the '80s. I am deeply disappointed that in all 21



### this time ou r government, and especially 22

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### Congress, has done so little to solve this urgent 1


### problem. That's why the EPA's proposal to limit 2


### carbon pollution from power plants is a welcomed 3


### piece of good news. I know that we can end our 4


### production of greenhouse gasses and secure a long 5



### and prosperous future. 6


### What worries me is that although we've 7


### long had a scientific consensus on the causes and 8


### risks of climate change, we don't have political 9



### or social consensus. 10



### A recent Gallup Poll found fewer than 60 11



### percent of Americans even believe it's caused by 12


### human activity, considering the magnitude of the 13


### threats climate change poses, we should be able 14


### to come together and demand solutions. Lack of 15


### widespread agreement on the urgency, or even 16


### existence of the problem, h inders our ability to 17


### enact comprehensive remedies, or even to follow 18


### through on the good solutions that are already 19


### being proposed and implemented. 20


### Sociologists tell us that the idea of 21


### climate change raises uncomfortable emotions in 22

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### people, feelings like guilt, fear, helplessness, 1


### and maybe denial or delay is a natural response. 2


### I once met a guy who agreed that climate change 3


### is a manmade problem, but was convinced there is 4


### nothing we can do about it. 5



### The say a good strategy to overcome that 6



### kind of deni al is to bring messages of hope. We 7


### can make a difference. We can ensure a bright 8



### future. 9


### I think one message we were hearing for a 10


### while, that the thing to do is change our light 11



### bulbs and keep our tires inflated wasn't really 12


### working because we know the challenge is so much 13


### bigger than what we can do as individuals. We 14


### need government to set fair rules and credible 15


### plans to get our emissions down so our quality of 16


### life can stay up. That's what can give us hope; 17


### give us reason to believe that we can face the 18


### unpleasant realities of climate change and 19


### succeed in preventing the serious threats. 20


### What I hope is that the EPA's plans to 21


### reduce greenhouse gas emissions can help spark 22

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### discussion among Americans about climate change, 1



### which has been on the back burner for too many of 2


### us for too long, and that those conversations 3


### will lead to greater awareness and understanding, 4



### greater sense of urgency and shared resolve to 5


### sustain our way of life for a long time to come. 6



### Thank you. 7



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Ne xt I'd like 8


### to invite up Laura Kaplann and Coralie Pryde. 9


### MS. KAPLAN: Good afternoon. My name is 10


### Laura Michelle Kaplann. L

- A

- U

- R

- A, the last 11



### name, K

- A

- P

- L

- A

- N. 12


### I would like to start by saying that I am 13



### an attorney licensed in Pennsylvania and D.C. and 14



### I am resident of Delaware and a member of the 15



### Executive Committee of the Delaware Sierra Club. 16


### But I'm here today, speaking on my own. 17


### I am speaking in favor of the proposed 18


### rule. I have focused my attention on 19


### environmental law and climate change and w as an 20



### intern at the Environmental and Natural Resources 21


### Clinic at Widener University. I had the 22

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### opportunity to study the Clean Air Act and 1


### Federal Energy Laws in cases dealing with air 2


### pollution among other issues. 3



### It is incumbent upon the United States b y 4


### the EPA to lead the way in reducing carbon 5


### emissions. At the present time many states have 6


### individual plans, but some do not. Pollution 7


### doesn't stop at the state line, but rather 8


### spreads out. Similarly the effects of global 9


### warming affect everyone, no t just residents of a 10


### certain state or country. 11


### These proliferating effects are called 12



### externalities. For this reason it is imperative 13


### to have a strong nationwide and and worldwide 14



### sustained effort to reduce carbon emissions. 15


### Climate change is real. It is caused by human 16


### beings, and only human beings can reverse it. We 17


### can do so by seizing this pivotal moment in the 18


### history of environmental regulations, excuse me, 19


### and by having a united vision. 20


### There have been new signs of cooperation 21


### among the emerging nations and progress is being 22

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### made. The United States must move forward 1


### quickly on this charge; must be a role model to 2



### the world, not a laggard, and must not delay the 3


### proposed action any longer. 4



### I urge the EPA to promulgate the 5



### emissions standards that President Obama's 6


### Climate Action Plan calls for, and to strengthen 7


### them by reducing the target date and the maximum 8



### level of emissions. 9


### Prior to 2007 only emissions which were 10


### included in the list of qualified air pollutants, 11


### as defined by the Clean Air A ct, could be 12


### regulated by the EPA. The EPA claimed it lacked 13


### authority to regulate carbon dioxide because Co2 14


### is not considered to be an air pollutant. 15



### However, in the landmark case of 16



### Massachusetts vs. EPA in 2007, the Supreme Court 17



### ruled that Co2 did i ndeed qualify as an air 18



### pollutant. 19



### The EPA then showed that human health is 20


### endangered in its endangerment finding. 21


### And finally

-- and showed that Co2 22

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### emissions pose a hazard to human health which 1


### opened the way finally for the present mandate to 2



### the EP A to propose emission standards to regulate 3


### power plant emissions of carbon dioxide. 4


### The proposed rule which is to be 5


### promulgated by the EPA is important because it 6


### targets existing power plants, which create the 7


### largest single source of Co2 emissions, bet ween 8


### 30 and 40 percent of our nation's carbon 9



### emissions. 10


### Section 111 of the Clean Air Act gives 11


### the EPA the responsibility to set maximum 12


### emission standards or an emission guideline 13


### performance for categories of stationary sources 14


### that contribute to dange rous air pollution. 15


### There are approximately 1,000 existing 16


### fossil fuel fired plants, and old inefficient 17


### power plants, 63 percent of them which are 40 18



### years old or older. About 3,000 are covered by 19



### this rule. 20


### The proposal requires states to create 21



### state i mplementation plans to put forth a best 22

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### system of emission reduction, BSER, for existing 1



### sources. If the EPA does not approve the state 2


### plan a federal plan will be issued. 3


### One way of reducing emissions is by 4


### increasing the efficiency of power plants, wh ich 5


### will not only reduce emissions but will also 6


### decrease electric consumption and encourage 7


### alternative energy sources such as wind farms and 8



### solar panels. 9


### Regarding the cost, the economics 10


### indicate that the benefits outweigh the cost by 11


### far according to a report by the National 12



### Resources Defense Council in 2013. 13


### The modeling analysis production shown by 14


### the NRDC study would reduce emissions by 26 15



### percent from 2005 levels by 2020, and by 34 16


### percent in 2025. This seems like too little too 17



### late. Nonetheles s health benefits will be 18


### achieved as a byproduct of emissions reductions. 19


### Not only carbon dioxide emissions but also sulfur 20


### dioxide will be reduced. Mercury will be reduced 21


### by 27 percent. There will be a 22 percent 22

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### reduction of nitrogen oxides, and a re duction of 1



### soot by 25 percent by 2020. These pollutants 2


### have been found to contribute to high rates of 3


### asthma, other lung disease, and heart attacks. 4


### In deed in Delaware Attorney General B eau 5



### Biden pointed out that the health of Delawarians 6



### is threatened by harmful pollution produced in 7


### other states and carried here by wind currents

. 8



### Likewise, Delaware Governor Jack Markell noted 9


### that more than 90 percent of Delaware's dirty 10


### pollution comes from out of states sources and 11


### the impact often results in air th at does not 12


### meet healthy standards, which includes the 13



### formation of ozone. 14


### Not surprisingly the American Lung 15


### Association has given Delaware an F for its 16



### levels of ozone, and a D in particle pollution. 17


### I personally know that a disproportionate 18



### percentage of children and adults in Delaware 19



### suffer from asthma and related health problems. 20


### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 21



### here today. 22

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### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 1


### MS. PRYDE: My name is Coralie Pryde, C

2



### O

- R

- A

- L

- I

- E and P

- R

- Y

- D

- E. 3



### I'm also from Delaware. I'm pleased that 4


### the EPA is beginning to tackle this very 5


### important problem about carbon emissions from 6


### existing power plants. I think that some of the 7


### rules make very good common sense to me, looking 8


### for efficiency in both power production and power 9



### use, is just good common sense. 10


### I think that the goals put forth by this 11


### program can be readily attained, and I too wish 12


### that perhaps they were a little bit higher 13


### because I am very concerned about the increasing 14


### effects we see from global warming. 15



### Perhaps th e most serious problem I have 16


### with the plan is that because it's only measuring 17


### the carbon dioxide burned at the power plant, it 18


### may have a tendency to increase the use of fuels 19



### that burn cleanly, but only

-- that have a very 20


### large carbon and environmental footprint when 21



### they're extracted and when they're transported. 22

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### Chief among that, of course we can 1


### mention the methane which is coming from wells 2


### that are horizontally fractured or fracked to get 3


### gas or oil. 4


### We know that the methane is being emitted 5



### in v ery large amounts from some wells and less 6



### from others, and we really have no good

-- we 7



### have a few good measurements on that and they 8



### show such scatter that we've clearly got to get a 9



### lot more measurements to really understand the 10


### magnitude of the problem

. 11



### We also know that methane is emitted 12


### while the gas is transported through old 13


### pipelines and a lot at compressors. This all is 14


### adding greatly to global warming. 15



### I know that the EPA's

-- the gas 16


### companies haven't really kept any track of these 17



### losses so they could monetize them so it's up to 18


### the EPA then, I think, to find good ways to get 19



### measurements. 20


### I know we've predicted that the gas usage 21


### will peak and then begin to decrease in the 22

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### coming decades, but there still will be quite a 1


### bit of gas obtaine d through drilling. And 2


### furthermore, when the old wells go out of service 3


### and are capped up, they're not going to cease to 4


### emit methane. Any studies have shown that when 5


### you cap a well, it's usually done by putting 6


### cement in, some of these wells begin to leak 7


### methane and other materials from the fracking 8


### process almost immediately. 9


### And it's inevitable that the cement put 10



### in there will fail sometime in the 50 to 100 year 11


### plan. And we really, again, have absolutely no 12


### idea, is this a big problem, a mediu m problem? 13


### It's going to last 100 years or 1,000 years. So 14



### those are concerns. 15


### I guess I'm very concerned with the 16


### problems with fuel extraction, just based on my 17


### own life where I've seen a lot of the problems. 18


### I was raised in a very small coal mining t own in 19


### Wyoming, and the coal was used

-- all the men 20



### there worked in the mines and the coal was used 21


### for the Union Pacific Railroad. We didn't worry 22

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### about burning the coal because the soot got blown 1


### away by the wind and nobody told us that carbon 2



### dioxide was bad. 3


### The one problem we did know is miners had 4


### black lung disease and some of them were killed 5


### or badly injured when the mine caved in. 6



### These mines closed in the '50s when the 7


### railroad started using diesel instead of coal. 8



### But within a decade or s o they were reopened 9



### because we had learned that that coal was low in 10


### sulfur, and therefore is a good answer to acid 11


### rain. Now Wyoming produces 40 percent of the 12


### coal used in the U.S., mostly by strip

- mining, 13



### which has its effects. 14



### As a child I visited th e mountains near 15


### Pinedale, Wyoming and there are beautiful pine 16



### forests and clear lakes there. It's a great 17


### relief from getting off the windy desert I lived 18


### on. I remember the air was just crystal and you 19


### could easily see 100 miles, or it seemed like 20



### for ever

. 21



### Now, those mountains are near what I've 22

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### learned to call the Pinedale anticline. This is 1


### where there's extensive gas extraction, about 2


### 1,500 wells. That crystalline air has turned to 3


### something as smoggy now as Los Angeles. 4



### As a child I also visi ted Pavilion
, 5


### Wyoming. My father worked near Pavilion for an 6


### oil company in the 1930s. Apparently there was 7


### very little damage from that early extraction. 8


### It was quite pristine. Now, Pavilion , after 10 9


### years of fracking, the water is considered bad 10



### eno ugh to make Pavilion considered as a superfund 11



### site. 12



### So I've seen all of the approaches that 13


### we've had to getting fuels. I have great 14


### problems. I think the EPA needs to consider 15



### these and also to help demonstrate that other 16



### plans that would use clean e nergy and renewable 17


### energy, may have lesser environmental effects. 18


### Only EPA has the power to look at this data 19


### nationwide and then make regulations nationwide. 20



### I thank you. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I would 22

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### like to call up Brenna Perez and John Com ella, 1



### please. 2


### MS. PEREZ: My name is Brenna Perez, 3



### Brenna, B

- R

- E

- N

- N

- A, Perez, P

- E

- R

- E

- Z. 4


### I'm a student at Old Dominion University 5


### of Norfolk, Virginia. Norfolk is located in a 6


### coastal region of Virginia that is rated second 7



### only to New Orleans as the area most vulnerable 8



### to sea level rise in the United States. 9


### As a resident of a region that is feeling 10


### the direct effects of climate change every day I 11


### am very happy to see the Environmental Protection 12



### Agency taking action through the Clean Power 13



### Plan. 14



### Th e Clean Power Plan is a groundbreaking 15


### and necessary step in addressing climate change. 16



### Power plants are responsible for 40 percent of 17


### the carbon pollution in the United States, making 18


### them the single largest source of carbon 19


### pollution in the country. 20



### We have been complacent towards the major 21


### cause of climate change for too long. Carbon 22

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### emission reeducation is a much needed catalyst to 1



### make energy efficiency and renewable energy a 2


### priority for the U.S. 3


### Virginia is becoming increasingly 4



### vulnerable to sea l evel rise, and the devastating 5


### effects of climate change are already having 6


### severe implications for the region. 7


### Climate change is not only affecting 8


### Americans. It is a global issue. In response 9


### American must become a leader in taking action to 10



### reduce ca rbon emissions. I look forward to 11


### seeing our country on the forefront of creating a 12



### clean and sustainable future. I feel 13


### groundbreaking action like the EPA's Clean Power 14


### Plan will play a significant role in creating 15


### that future for our generation and gen erations to 16



### come. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 19


### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If I may I'd like 20



### to read the statement of John Comella who has 21


### health issues that make it difficult to project 22

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### his voice. Is that all right? Do you need my 1



### name? 2



### MR. NIEBLING : No. 3


### MR. COMELLA: My name is John Comella. 4



### J

- O

- H

- N C

- O

- M

- E

- L

- L

- A. My wife and I have lived 5


### in Philadelphia for more than three years. 6


### Before that we lived just south of Concord, 7



### Massachusetts, about 25 miles west of Boston. 8



### Now we live in a co

- op in Center City, 9


### Philadelphia. 10



### I strongly support the EPA's plan to 11


### tighten emission standards for existing fossil 12



### fuel power plants for two reasons. Number one, 13


### my wife has asthma and it has gotten 14


### significantly worse since we moved to 15


### Philadelphia. She s pends more time coughing and 16


### having trouble breathing than she ever did in 17



### Massachusetts. 18



### Fortunately we found an apartment 19


### building which has pretty good air quality, but 20


### we also have our own air filtering device which 21


### we run when conditions are really ba d. 22

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### My second reason for supporting tighter 1



### emission standards is that we have two wonderful 2


### daughters in their late 30s. If the world does 3


### not get its act together on climate change within 4


### the next 15 to 25 years my daughters will almost 5


### certainly see a n extreme global warming 6


### catastrophe. We will have passed the point of no 7


### return on global warming. Then most of the 8


### population of the Earth, especially the poor and 9


### vulnerable will die or become seriously disabled 10



### from extreme weather and grotesquely fo ul air and 11



### water. 12


### Only the very wealthiest will be able to 13



### shield themselves from these effects. But that 14


### terrible damage will also destroy the economy of 15


### the world and that will seriously affect even the 16


### wealth. However, by then, it will be far too 17



### la te to do anything about it. 18


### Thank you for your attention. 19



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much. Next 20


### I'd like to ask up Susan Miller and Tara Losoff, 21



### please. 22

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### MS. LOSOFF: Hi. Thank you. Thank you 1


### for your time today. My name is Tara Losoff. 2



### I'm the National Outreach Manager with the 3


### National Wildlife Federation and you've heard a 4


### lot about what that organization is and kind of 5


### what we care about, but in my role here in D.C., 6


### a lot of what I do is reach out to people and 7



### connect with our affiliates an d partners and 8


### individuals and activists around the country and 9


### hear their stories and try to relay those stories 10


### to the policy makers, and vice

- versa, try to 11


### translate some of the policies that are impacting 12



### them at home. 13



### So, you know, you've probably hea rd a lot 14



### of stories from NWF affiliates and some of our 15



### activists , and I have one more here that I want 16


### to share with you. It's from Todd Tanner, that's 17



### Todd Tanner, T

- A

- N

- N

- E

- R, and he's the Founder 18


### and Chairman of Conservation Hawks. A group of 19



### hunters and anglers who care about protecting the 20


### natural world for the next generation of 21


### sportsmen. And he asked me to read this 22

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### testimony for him. 1


### So my name is Todd Tanner, and I live in 2


### Big Fork, Montana. I'm a sportsman, a hunter, 3



### and an angler, and as we ll, a longtime outdoor 4



### writer and the President of Conservation Hawks. 5


### I'd like to take this opportunity to comment on 6



### the EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 7


### None of us like expensive unnecessary 8


### regulations, yet at the same time the vast 9


### majority of Americ ans do support clean air and 10



### water, healthy landscapes and a strong, robust 11



### economy. 12


### We also want to give our kids and 13


### grandkids the best possible shot at a prosperous 14


### future. Unfortunately climate change is 15


### beginning to slam the United States. In the west 16


### we're seeing extreme heat, mega droughts, dying 17


### forests, and catastrophic wildfires. Back east 18


### it's sea level rise and crazy storms, and major 19


### flooding and lots and lots of hungry disease 20


### carrying ticks and mosquitoes. 21


### The science on climate change i s clear 22

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### and unequivocal. The fossil fuels we're burning 1


### are changing the chemistry of our atmosphere, 2


### they're acidifying our oceans, and they're 3


### warming our planet . And if we're going to have 4


### any hope at all of defending our American way of 5



### life we need to reduce our Co2 emissions 6


### dramatically and make an immediate shift to clean 7



### renewable energy. 8


### There's one final point

-- let's see. 9


### With that in mind I support the EPA's proposed 10



### Clean Power Plan. We need to lower carbon 11


### emissions from existing power p lants and kick our 12


### addiction to fossil fuels. It's the only way 13


### we're going to hold on to our hunting and 14


### fishing, or give our kids and grandkids a shot at 15



### a healthy prosperous future. 16


### And there's one final point I'd like to 17


### make. These EPA regulations w ould not be 18


### necessary if Congress was doing its job. 19


### Unfortunately Congress has been missing in action 20


### on climate change and that means we have no 21


### choice but to rely on the EPA to reduce carbon 22

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### emissions from power plants and other major 1



### sources of pollut ion. 2



### The climate dubs and climate deniers in 3


### Congress need to do their jobs as well. It's 4



### time to set aside all the antiscience rhetoric 5


### and the partisan politics and defend America 6


### against the single largest threat that we all 7



### face. We have to address g lobal warming and we 8


### have to do it now. Thank you. 9



### MR. NIEBLING: Okay. 10


### MS. MILLER: Good afternoon. My name is 11



### Susan Miller, S

- U

- S

- A

- N M

- I

- L

- L

- E

- R. And I am 12



### the Vice President for Environment Health and 13


### Safety for the Brick Industry Association. 14



### I offer these comments on behalf of BIA 15



### and its member manufacturers and distributors of 16


### structural clay and clay brick products. We're a 17


### small trade association representing an industry 18


### of mostly small businesses as defined by the 19



### Small Business Administr ation . Many of our 20


### companies have been around since the late 1800s 21


### and many remain family owned. 22

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### I'm here today speaking for my industry 1



### because we want to be around for the next 100 2



### years and more. 3


### While our industry did not make it into 4



### any of EPA's an alysis about the impacts of this 5


### rule, make no mistake, we are impacted by it. 6


### Our biggest concerns mirror those you're going to 7



### hear from other industries, energy costs, natural 8


### gas costs, and the uncertainty of exactly what 9



### the outside the fence mandate could mean to my 10



### plants. 11


### The manufacture of clay brick requires 12


### energy to transform raw materials into a durable, 13



### sustainable, long

- lasting , quality building 14


### material. Clay brick manufacturers and 15


### distributors nationwide operate in a sustainable 16



### manner w hile committed to doing our share to 17


### minimize environmental impact and to protect our 18



### employees' health and safety. 19


### The clay brick industry understands the 20


### importance of reducing greenhouse gasses and 21



### other air emissions, and is committed to measures 22

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### advan cing this goal. This includes minimizing 1


### energy consumption, pursuing alternative energy 2


### sources, and improving manufacturing processes 3


### and technologies. We share a lot of the same 4


### views of the people who are quote, on the other 5


### side of the aisle. We ju st have some concerns 6



### over the vastness of this rule. 7


### The clay brick industry also encourages 8


### balanced policies that protect the environment 9


### while allowing reasonable economic growth. 10


### Our industry wants to remain a part of 11


### our nation's economy. To do th at we need to 12


### survive the next few years. We simply can't jump 13


### to 2025 or 2030 and look at our viability then, 14


### or energy prices then. We must survive each and 15


### every year in between. We implore you to look 16



### beyond select target years as you evaluate the 17



### e nergy costs, the impacts of this rule. 18


### As you may impact a large number of small 19


### businesses far more than our small industry, we 20



### would love to encourage a SBREFA panel be held. 21



### Please look at every year and make sure 22

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### the impacts are reasonable, have a pos itive 1


### impact commensurate with your costs, and still 2


### allow our economy to continue with the slow 3


### recovery that we all hope we're seeing. 4


### The impacts of natural gas prices and 5


### availability must also be included and have a 6


### huge impact on our industry. The predominate 7


### fuel we use is natural gas to fire our kilns. 8


### Have you evaluated the impacts on industries like 9


### ours of a proposal that is based in part on the 10


### assumption that utilities can increase natural 11



### gas use? 12



### We fear it will affect demand and 13



### therefo re prices and possibly availability. This 14


### isn't the only rule that will do that. Another 15


### part of your organization is considering national 16


### ambient air quality changes in the Ozone Rule. 17


### That will also affect natural gas and 18


### availability. 19



### But I must say that one of the questions 20


### I receive most from my members when they hear 21



### about it, is this outside the fence mandate, and 22

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### what it might mean to an industry like ours. 1


### This rule is huge, it's hard to get through in 2


### the time we have to give you good comments

. 3



### Remember, this rule does not come to us in a 4


### vacuum void of any other regulations that are 5


### coming our way for our industry. 6


### On that note I'm going to take just one 7


### minute. I see it's still green. To address one 8



### overall concern I have. 9



### As I've stated , this rule is not the only 10


### rule that will impact our industry. In fact, 11


### just this year our industry will have two major 12



### rule proposals, one from OSHA that's already come 13


### out, and one from EPA that directly impact brick 14


### manufacturing. You can say, and ma ny in your 15



### agency have said, that you cannot concern 16


### yourself with that. And I understand it's not a 17


### simple thing to evaluate multiple regulations on 18


### an industry. But like I tell my middle schooler, 19


### just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not the 20


### right thing to do. 21


### The ability for an industry to absorb the 22

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### costs of one regulation is impacted by the money 1


### that we have to spend to comply with another. We 2



### do have finite resources. We do run out. If EPA 3


### and other government agencies continue to take a 4


### pig eon

- holed look at the impacts of their 5


### specific regulation or ignore impacts of their 6


### regulation on industries such as ours, 7


### manufacturing in the U.S. doesn't stand a chance. 8


### Adequate, affordable, and reliable energy 9


### supplies, especially natural gas, are e ssential 10


### to the growth and viability of the U.S. economy. 11


### The clay brick industry is no different. 12


### Reliable and affordable energy is critical for 13


### brick manufacturers to continue to produce 14


### quality clay product

-- quality clay brick 15



### products that consumer s and builders rely on for 16



### new construction. 17


### We've all heard those that say this 18


### administration does not care if manufacturing 19


### disappears in America. Please prove them wrong. 20


### Thank you for taking time to listen to 21



### me. 22

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### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. I'm goin g to 1



### go ahead and call two more people and maybe 2


### propose we take a brief break to let our valiant 3



### court reporter and a couple of the panelists 4


### stretch their legs since we'll be at about the 5



### half hour mark. 6



### So with that, Marie Stella and Naomi 7



### Edelson, ple ase. 8



### MS. STELLA: Hello. 9



### MR. NIEBLING: Hi. 10


### MS. STELLA: My name is Marie Stella and 11


### I'm from Chesterfield County, Virginia. I live 12


### in a county and state that's constitution and 13


### most regulations have never found a tax break 14


### they didn't love, and a regul ation that they did 15


### love. As a result we bear the brunt of rising 16


### waters in the southern parts of our state, in 17


### Norfolk, Virginia Beach, we are the asthma 18


### capitol of the world. Of the United States 19


### anyway. And we are consistently in the 10 20



### percent of th e wealthiest state, and consistently 21


### in the 10 percent of the state that provides the 22

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### least benefits to our citizens. 1



### And to show you an example of the 2


### problems that we're faced with, I'd like to talk 3


### to you a little bit about a problem that we have 4



### in C hesterfield County with fly ash. For the 5


### last six months or so we've been fighting the 6


### import of fly ash that would be used to build 7


### berms, to augment our soil that we buy for, you 8



### know, for our products that we use on our ground. 9



### And over 250 people cam e to our county to 10


### complain about this, to complaint about the water 11


### in the creeks being polluted by the toxic 12


### chemicals in the fly ash and nothing has been 13



### done about it. 14


### Eventually what happened is the 15


### Department of Energy Quality decided that fly ash 16



### is not a toxic and will not hurt us and will 17


### allow the company to continue to import this. 18



### The reason we have to ask ourselves that 19


### besides this, our airways are flooded, our 20


### newspapers are flooded with articles and 21


### commercials basically talking about the no nsense 22

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### about global warming, nonsense about pollution 1


### and that if we had regulations we're going to 2


### affect jobs, benefits, pensions, et cetera, and 3


### there really isn't a way or a foundation that's 4


### helpful to us in educating people about the 5



### dangers of the e nvironment so that you hear these 6


### names repeated over and over again. 7



### And so I'm here really to say thank you, 8


### EPA, because frequently we look at our situation 9


### and say, who speaks for us? There is absolutely 10


### no one that speaks for us and citizens by 11



### thems elves do not have the power anymore, to be 12


### effective. As a lobby we're too divided and so I 13



### want to say that we're so grateful for the 14


### President for mandating a ruling, and that to 15


### tell you and EPA to be faithful to us, to defend 16



### us, to be there for us, b ecause we have no one 17



### else. 18


### So I hope you realize

-- I know what a 19


### hard job you have, and that you're constantly 20


### being denigrated. But I want you to remember 21


### that citizens, tax payers, children, we all 22

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### depend on you because we have no one else. So I 1



### ho pe when you will hold

-- be faithful to us and 2


### know that we support you and we believe in you 3



### and that we need you. Okay. Thank you. 4



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 5



### MS. EDELSON: Hi. I'm Naomi Edelson and 6


### I live in Tacoma Park, Maryland, near Sligo 7



### Creek. An d I am speaking in support of the 8



### carbon rule. And I also want to thank the EPA 9


### and President Obama for creating a rule to reduce 10


### carbon pollution. I'm grateful grateful to you 11



### for that. 12


### I am a wildlife biologist. I work for 13



### the National Wildlife Federa tion. I'm a bird 14


### watcher. I'm a biker; bicyclist. This is a bike 15


### accident. But a broken arm that's healing well. 16



### But I am a member of the Adat Shalom Synagogue , 17


### among other things. And I'd like to talk a 18



### little bit about each one and how it relates t o 19


### climate change and the need to reduce carbon 20


### pollution. 21


### First, as a wildlife biologist, which I 22

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### have worked in this field for over 30 years, and 1


### there is no question that the climate is changing 2


### and impacting wildlife now. But I work not on 3


### the mitigati on side, but on the adaptation side. 4


### We're working with many many government agencies, 5


### including the EPA and other conservation 6


### organizations to help prepare and cope with these 7


### impacts. And we've just published a guide called 8



### Climate Smart Conservation, Putting Adaptation 9


### Principles into Practice. 10



### And this is all because the climate 11


### change is impacting us now and these agencies 12


### will have had to manage millions of acres of 13



### land, and the people who care about

-- you know, 14


### enjoy the outdoors and benefit f rom the outdoors, 15



### all of these lands and waters now have to be 16


### managed with this in mind. They can no longer be 17


### managed by looking at the past and thinking about 18


### how we used to be in restoring habitat to, you 19



### know, pre European settler time. It's all abo ut 20


### thinking forward and what is the climate going to 21


### be like in the next 50 and 100 years. And that 22

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### is a sea change for the Wildlife Conservation 1


### Movement and other conservationists to really 2


### grapple with how do we deal with this. 3



### So we had to put out an over, you know, 4


### 300 page document and we're doing trainings all 5


### across the country, and it's a very big deal. 6


### And there is some hope. We can make a 7



### difference. We can make a difference for 8



### wildlife and let them continue to thrive. 9



### But there will be a tipping point. You 10


### know, we are having the impacts now. We need to 11



### -- if we can stop the carbon pollution, then we 12


### have a fighting chance, and we can implement 13


### these adaptation principles and practices. But 14


### if we do not do that then we will reach a tip ping 15


### point where there's no going back and it's going 16


### to be catastrophic and we don't know what we'll 17


### end up with, which wildlife will make it. Some 18


### will make it and many won't. 19


### And the wildlife that we depend on for 20


### food, for enjoyment, and for many ot her things, 21


### the different things that they provide to us by 22

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### helping us clean the air and clean the water, 1


### will no longer be available to us. 2



### So while I believe that we have to take 3


### action now to do something about the current 4



### state, we need to stop the fu ture carbon 5


### pollution so that we're not creating it so bad 6


### that there's no going back. 7


### Now I want to say something as a mother. 8


### My son has just turned seven. And when he was as 9


### young as five he and his friend, two years older 10


### than him, came up with an id ea. They want to be 11


### inventors when they grow up. They came up with 12


### an idea because they heard me talking about 13


### climate change and they decided they would create 14


### this sky cleaner. No kidding. They have 15


### decided, they're adamant, they've held on to 16



### this. He's just turned seven, so for two years. 17


### And they have this idea that they're going to 18


### have a little machine that goes up in the air 19



### like a vacuum cleaner and cleans the air. And 20


### they're going to attach it to clouds, and 21


### they're going to attach it to the back of cars. 22

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### I mean, they are serious. They really think this 1


### is what's going to do it. 2



### And so of course I encourage them, and 3


### they think they're going to make even a lot of 4


### money and do good things for the environment. 5



### But this is like what our ch ildren are growing up 6


### thinking the world is like, and they can't 7



### understand

-- they routinely say to me, how come 8


### they don't just stop it. Like, they don't 9


### understand, how can this still be going on. 10


### And it's a hard question to answer, 11


### right? I mean, I know what I think the answers 12


### are, but it's a very complicated thing to talk 13



### with children about. And so it's a sad state 14


### that my son is thinking that that's his primary 15


### invention in life is the sky cleaner. 16


### But I do hope he can create it because we 17



### wil l still need it. 18



### And then I want to say as a member of 19



### Adat Shalom reconstructionist synagogue , and 20



### based in the Glen Echo area, Bethesda, we have a 21


### green building, we have a green rabbi . You know, 22

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### the Jewish faith talks about Tikkun Olam. And 1



### it's abo ut taking care of the Earth. And that's 2


### our responsibility, and all faiths have something 3


### about that. And that is our responsibility. And 4


### at Adat Shalom we're creating in our storm water 5


### basin, which was created for the 100 year flood, 6


### which is happenin g

-- we're filling it up now on 7


### a greater frequency than we ever did, we are 8


### creating wildlife habitat. We're taking out the 9


### turf grass and putting in native plants and we 10


### are trying to

-- native plants typically hold 11



### more carbon and hold more water. And we're 12


### trying to create this program, Sacred Grounds, 13



### all over the country to do at the churches, 14



### synagogues , and mosques everywhere to help deal 15


### with climate change. 16


### And I see my time is up, but I thank you 17


### for the opportunity. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you ve ry much. With 19


### that I'd like to propose that we take a brief, 20


### about a five minute recess. So we'll adjourn for 21



### a moment and then resume at about 3:19, 22

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### approximately. 1


### (Recess from 3:13 p.m. until 3:49 p.m.) 2


### MR. NIEBLING: Okay, ladies and 3



### gentlemen. Th ank you for your patience. We're 4


### going to resume our session with some people 5



### ready to speak. I read through some ground rules 6


### before. I don't plan to recapitulate them but 7


### I'm happy to if anyone has any questions. 8


### We are asking you to be respectful o f 9


### each other's testimony, and to speak for up to 10



### five minutes, but to make sure that the list of 11



### people that want to speak have a chance to. 12


### We're going to try to keep to that as best as we 13



### can. 14


### So with that I'd like to invite up Illana 15



### Naylor and Malco lm Odell to testify, please. 16



### MS. NAYLOR: Good afternoon, Mr. 17



### N ie bling, Ms. Conlin, and Ms. McLamb. Thank you 18


### for providing these listening sessions which 19


### indicates your love for and belief in democracy. 20



### Thank you for your patience for hearing over and 21


### over again information you already know, but 22

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### hopefully will provide you support that you need 1


### to go forward with the most important proposed 2


### rule for finding the best systems of Co2 emission 3



### reductions. 4


### My name is Illana Naylor. I live in 5


### Manassas, Virgi nia and I serve and practice as a 6


### Masters Prepared beside pediatric nurse. 7



### In 2004 a Master's thesis was entitled 8


### the Health Effects of Global Warming. I was 9


### laughed at by my professors who claimed that 10


### global warming was not a healthcare concern. 11



### What totally befuddles me now is how climate 12


### change became the political football it is today. 13


### So I also thank you, the representatives 14


### of the EPA for acknowledging that climate change 15



### is real. 16


### In your introduction, I quote, "This 17


### proposal is an important step toward achieving 18


### the greenhouse gas emission reductions needed to 19


### address the serious threat of climate change." 20


### GHG pollution threatens the American 21


### public by leading to potentially rapid damage, 22

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### even long lasting change in our climate that we 1



### have had a range of severe negative effects on 2



### human health and the environment. Co2 is the 3


### primary GHG pollutant accounting for nearly three 4


### quarters of GHG emissions, and 82 percent of U.S. 5



### GHG emission. 6



### The May 2014 report of the National 7



### Climate Assessment co ncluded, "The climate change 8


### impacts are already manifesting in the sails and 9


### imposing losses and costs. The report document 10



### increases in extreme weather and climate events 11


### in recent decades, damage and destructives to 12


### infrastructure and agriculture and p rojects 13


### continued increases and impacts across a wide 14


### range of communities, sectors, and ecosystems," 15



### end of quote. 16


### Imagine with me a moment that we are all 17



### back in New Orleans during the overwhelming 18



### disaster of Katrina. As a nurse what I saw were 19



### people trapped in the Astro d ome for days with no 20



### water and nowhere to put human waste. 21


### Children are my passion. Imagine again 22

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### with me that the Earth, no longer our mother who 1


### cares for us, but a child who is in danger of Co2 2


### toxicity and asthma, struggling to b reath and to 3


### be free. Children are among our most vulnerable. 4



### I am here to speak up for them. 5


### Co2 toxicity leads to irritability, 6


### asphyxiation, and death for all of us. 7


### I am proud to support the EPA agency in 8


### creating limits that would result in signif icant 9



### reduction in carbon pollution for power plants 10


### for the first time in our nation's history. 11


### Power plants are responsible for 40 percent of 12


### U.S. carbon pollution, contributing to climate 13


### disruption. 14



### There are limits on the amount of 15



### mercury, sulfur, arsenic, cyanide, soot, and 16


### lead, but until recently there have been no 17


### limits on carbon pollution. Why this proposal is 18


### a significant step I quote, "Forward with the EPA 19



### and states partner to reduce greenhouse gas 20



### emission in the U.S. And while this ru le would 21


### change Co2 emissions reductions in the power 22

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### sector, approximately 30 percent from Co2 1



### emission levels in 2005, and would result in net 2



### climate and health benefits of 48 billion to 82 3


### billion," end of quote. 4


### I am deeply concerned this proposal wil l 5


### not see these significant reductions until 16 6


### years from now, in 2030. 7


### In the introduction the proposal speaks 8


### of the healthcare cost savings as a result of Co 9


### emissions reduction. But this point is not 10


### repeated in the subsequent sections on cost 11



### bene fit analysis of various alternatives. 12


### Truly, I thank you for your exhaustive 13


### work in developing and expanding upon the four 14


### building blocks. I agree that the best system 15


### for reducing emissions is for the states to use 16



### elements of all four blocks. 17



### I do , however, challenge EPA's very low 18


### expectations of renewable energy overall. 19


### Germany is very committed to renewable energy. I 20


### quote from Wikipedia, no less, "Germany's 21


### renewable energy sector is among the most 22

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### innovate and successful worldwide. The sha re of 1


### electricity produced from renewable energy in 2


### Germany has increased from 6.3 percent of the 3



### national total in 2000 to about 25 in the first 4



### half of 2012. In 2011 20.5 of Germany's 5


### electricity supply was produced with renewable 6



### energy sources. More than the 2010 contribution 7


### of gas fired plants. During the first six months 8


### of 2014 almost 31 percent of German electric 9


### power came from renewable sources, mainly wind, 10


### biogas, and solar. This is more than came from 11



### brown coal. In 2010 investments total ing 26 12



### billion Euros were made in Germany's renewable 13



### energy sector. Germany has been called the 14


### world's first major renewable energy economy. 15



### Sieman's Chief Executive Peter Loscher believes 16


### that Germany's target of generating 35 percent of 17



### its electrici ty from renewables by 2020 is 18



### achievable. 19


### I understand that we are focusing on 20



### carbon emissions, but does that mean we turn a 21


### blind eye to the environmental degradation 22

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### resulting from natural gas and hydro fracking and 1


### nuclear energy? I invite you to Ne w York City on 2


### September 21st, returning to best emissions. 3



### Thank you. 4


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. And if you 5


### submitted a paper copy of your comments we'll 6



### make sure those are reflected in the record. 7


### MS. NAYLOR: I did, Mr. Niebling. Yes, 8



### sir. 9



### MR. NIEB LING: Thank you. 10



### MS. NAYLOR: Because I also have another 11


### question about best practices, but I'm done. 12



### MR. NIEBLING: Well, thank you. We'll 13



### make sure those are reflected in the record. 14



### MS. NAYLOR: Thank you. 15



### MR. ODELL JR.: That's a hard act to 16



### follow. I'm Dr. Malcolm Odell. I started out my 17



### career

-- I'm a witness. I don't bring any 18


### scientific papers and I'm certainly not going to 19


### regurgitate all the facts and figures you've 20


### heard over and over again. You know the science. 21


### Stick to your science. You're doing a great job. 22

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### I started as a Peace Corps volunteer in 1



### 1962, the first batch that went to Nepal , saw the 2


### Himalayas in their glory in the early '60s, over 3



### 50 years ago. 4


### I got interested in natural resource 5


### management, excited by what I saw in the 6


### Himalayas, wanted to see what we could do to 7


### protect environments like that, those wonderful 8


### mountains. Decided to try to get an advanced 9



### degree. 10



### I hitchhiked from Kathmandu to Paris to 11



### take the graduate record exams, got into Cornell, 12



### got a PhD after some struggle, and natural 13


### resource management agriculture and been working 14



### in the field ever since. 15


### 1975, went with my family to the Kalahari 16



### to try and reverse desertification of the 17


### Kalahari. We were there for five years. My 18


### family started there. My son was born in 19



### Southern Africa. 20


### Came back 15 years and then in New 21


### England where I worked on the Merrimack River 22

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### Watershed Council to protect and turn around the 1



### disaster of Merrimack River which was a toxic 2


### waste dump some years ago, and is now, you ca n 3



### swim in it. 4



### While I was there I hosted and moderated 5



### a workshop at the JFK School at Harvard 6


### University for climate scientists, together with 7


### media people. Gentleman. Some time ago, 1985, 8


### to alert the media to the problem of climate 9



### science. At that time Jim Hanson and his climate 10


### scientists that were out there doing the work, 11


### they were unanimous then. They're more unanimous 12


### now. They've only been joined by hundreds and 13



### thousands of other scientists. But we saw it in 14



### the mid '80s, and knew it was there, and we need 15


### to remember that the clock is ticking. 16


### I went back to the Himalayas in '94 to 17


### 2003. My family lived there eight years, and 18


### I've been witness to some real changes. 19


### We did introduce some solar power 20


### technology in Africa. We introduced solar power 21


### technology in Nepal . We have electric taxes in 22

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### Kathmandu. We have solar panels on water and 1


### electric all over Southern Africa. And yet, our 2


### own embassies in other parts of the world aren't 3


### even using those kinds of technologies. 4



### I was witne ss to the desertification and 5


### the efforts to try to change it East and Southern 6


### Africa. I was recently in Jordan where I saw the 7


### Dead Sea retreating at somewhat catastrophic 8


### rate. Not only from climate change but from man, 9


### you know, drawing of the water. 10



### I went to Pakistan and watched the 11



### desalinization of the Indus Valley. I brought 12


### the engineers to the United States to see what 13


### we've done in Central Valley, the wonderful 14


### fantastic irrigation and how we turned the lower 15


### end of the Central Valley into a toxic waste dump 16


### at the Kesterson Wildlife Reserve where the park 17


### rangers have to wear protective clothing and blow 18


### off shotguns to keep the wildlife

-- I mean, 19


### birds from settling in that park. Otherwise 20


### they'll die or their children will be deformed. 21



### I was in Afghanistan and Pakistan again 22

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### recently, saw what's happening to that beautiful 1


### Hindu Kush. And I was working in the Himalayas. 2



### I came back to work on the National Natural Park 3


### Reserves Social and Community Forestry, community 4


### owned national par ks. And we were able to, in 5


### the lifetime of my short lifespan here, to 6


### actually demonstrate increased forestation of the 7


### Himalayan watershed. There are more trees on the 8


### Himalayan watershed today than there were 40 9


### years ago. And yet the glaciers are st ill 10


### melting. And they're melting, seriously. 11


### And 12 of my friends, 12 of my Sherpa 12



### friends died because of that climate induced 13


### secondary effect just not long ago. 14



### I also saw the same in India. Social 15


### forestry programs, planting thousands and 16



### thousan ds of acres of forests, and yet the 17


### problem continues. 18



### I worked with African women and N e pali 19



### women who planted hundreds and hundreds of 20


### thousands of seedlings, only to see the negative 21


### problems continue. 22

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### I was recently back in Africa, and I saw 1



### what's happening to Mount Kenya, the los s of the 2


### Glacier on Mount Kenya. Kilimanjaro will, for 3



### our chi ldren

-- kids, you better get to see 4


### Kilimanjaro if you haven't already because it 5



### won't have a snowcap anymore. 6



### I've seen the sea level rise in 7



### Bangladesh, killing hundreds of thousands, 8


### millions of people. Sri Lanka and even seen 9


### what's happening in New Zealand and the Pacific 10


### Islands. And my granddaughter was born just 11


### recently in New York City, and she was lucky to 12


### get to the Downtown Medical Center beca use it was 13


### completely underwater on the ground level, until 14



### the day before she was born. 15


### I think it's, you know, it's 52 years of 16


### watching science and witness for science, and 17


### seeing the science and public information of the 18


### unanimous type. I studied the history of science 19


### by the way. Never in the history of science has 20


### there been such a consensus. Scientists always 21


### fight. They did back to Galileo. But there's 22

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### never been a consensus like this one. You know 1



### that. 2


### But why are we still struggling to brin g 3


### coal under control? You know, it's really 4


### terrible that we have to make this testimony and 5



### you have to wage your battle. Why are we second 6


### to Germany? It's just shocking. 7


### All I can say is, you're doing a great 8


### job. Just raise the bar and keep on rais ing the 9



### bar. Thank you very much. 10



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 11



### MS. NAYLOR: Thank you. 12



### MR. NIEBLING: Next I'd like

-- 13


### MR. NIEBLING: All right. I'd like to 14


### invite up next, Jeff Hyman and Dean Hubb a rd, 15



### please. 16



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Pardon? 17



### MR. NIEBLING: Jeff Hyman and Dean 18



### Hubb a rd, please. 19


### MR. HYMAN: Okay. Ready? So, Dr. Jim 20


### Hansen predicts that if we burn all fossil fuels 21



### -- 22

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### MR. NIEBLING: I'm sorry . I'm sorry. 1


### Would you please introduce yourself and spell 2



### your name for the reporter? 3



### MR. HYMAN: All right. My name is 4



### Jeffrey Hyman, J

- E

- F

- F

- R

- E

- Y H

- Y

- M

- A

- N. 5



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 6



### MR. HYMAN: Okay. So, Dr. James Hansen 7


### predicts that if we burn all fossil fuels we 8


### could cause our planet to become not only ice

9


### free, but also human free. I imagi ne that the 10


### point of no return that guarantees our near turn 11



### extinction must be somewhere less than all of the 12



### fossil fuels. 13



### I hope to God we haven't crossed that 14


### window already. 15



### Bill McKibben wrote about how if we want 16


### to avoid dangerous limits of glo bal warming we 17


### need to keep at least four fifths of reserves of 18


### fossil fuel carbon in the ground forever. At 19


### current rates we are set to blow past this limit 20


### within 14, 15 years. I'm scared. I'm seeing the 21


### end of humanity. Unmitigated global warming 22

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### me ans the total annihilation of everything of 1



### value in this universe. 2


### President Obama has said that global 3


### warming is one of the most important issues of 4


### this generation, except for every other thing 5


### that comes up that seems to knock global warming 6



### down the line in the list of most important 7


### presidential priorities

. 8


### President Obama is wrong. Global warming 9


### is the single most important issue, and the whole 10


### history of life on Earth. Dr. Hansen has said 11


### that the upper limit for our safety of Co2 in the 12



### atmosph ere is 350 parts per million. If we can 13


### stay below 400 parts per million we might still 14



### be able to get back to below 350 by means of 15


### things like reforestation. But if we go much 16


### greater than 400 ppm, then 350 ppm will no longer 17


### be practically possible. 18



### W e're now at 400 parts per million, and 19


### we need to act with urgency. We have already 20


### caused a certain amount of damage to the planet 21


### that we will not be able to fix, and we can only 22

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### grieve and mourn for that damage we've caused 1



### already. 2



### There is further wa rming in the pipeline 3



### that we'll not be able to prevent, but there's 4


### potentially even greater damages that hopefully 5


### we still can prevent if we act. 6


### Humans have accomplished many great 7


### things across the history of our civilization. I 8



### think it would be nic e of us if we each would 9



### choose to continue to survive on Earth so that we 10


### might be able to remember the achievements of the 11


### past, as well as to be able to continue to do 12


### more great things in the future. 13


### If we survive global warming in the short 14



### term, th ere's longer term risks to survival on 15


### Earth. Things like that asteroid that wiped out 16


### the dinosaurs, and eventually our sun will die. 17



### And I believe we could work over thousands of 18


### years to survive threats by doing things like 19


### colonizing Mars and maybe o ther plants around 20



### other stars. But we'll need a stable home base 21



### on Earth to work from. 22

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### I think that people who go into public 1



### service for a career are interested more in 2


### serving the public good more than personal 3



### enrichment. 4


### Serving people who you hav e never met and 5


### never will meet, I want you to consider that 6


### potential people of future generations who you 7


### will also never meet out number and outweigh the 8


### number of people alive today. 9


### I don't have children of my own, but I 10


### have a nephew and four nieces and I'm afraid for 11


### them as droughts increase and sea levels rise, I 12


### worry if they will be able to always be secure in 13


### their ability to obtain food. I wonder if they 14


### might be among the last humans to survive on 15



### Earth before our extinction. 16


### This clean power plan is a baby step. Go 17


### ahead and take a baby step, but don't imagine it 18



### to be more than what it is. We need more. We 19


### need total war effort to mitigate global warming. 20


### And this is not that. We need a plan that causes 21


### global carbon emissions from all sources to be 22

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### reduced by more than half within a decade. We 1


### need a high and rapidly rising global price on 2



### carbon. Work on that. 3


### As fossil carbon energy industry is 4



### squeezed and ended, we can expect carbon

- free 5


### energy alternatives like wind and solar pow er, 6



### and nuclear power, to grow and expand and make 7


### gains and efficiencies. But we can't rely on 8


### future miracle technology that hasn't been 9


### invented yet to solve all our problems, if major 10


### world governments do nothing now and refuse to 11


### treat global warming with all warranted gravity. 12



### So take a baby step and go and do more. 13



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 14


### MR. HUBBARD: Good afternoon. My name is 15



### Dean Hubbard, D

- E

- A

- N H

- U

- B

- B

- A

- R

- D. I'm the 16



### Director of the Sierra Club Labor Program. I've 17



### been in the labor move ment for nearly three 18


### decades as an organizer, an attorney, and an 19



### educator. 20


### During these hearings you will hear a lot 21


### of folks arguing that we should be protecting the 22

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### environment. You'll hear other folks arguing 1


### that we need to protect good jobs. What I'd like 2


### to talk about today is the fact that the Clean 3



### Power Plan really allows us to do both. 4


### From a union perspective the Clean Power 5


### Plan presents a tremendous opportunity to create 6


### good family sustaining jobs in every state of the 7



### nation. That's beca use the EPA has structured 8


### the plan in a way that give states enough time to 9



### comply in a way that is best suited for their 10


### local economies. Meaning they can create their 11


### own plans to protect existing jobs and spur the 12



### creation of new ones, all while reduc ing 13


### pollution. 14



### We should use the next two years to come 15


### together, to talk through our differences, and 16


### find common ground to get this done in the best 17


### way possible. That's because the Clean Power 18


### Plan is not really about jobs versus the 19



### environment. It r eally gives us a chance to work 20


### together to create good jobs and healthy 21


### communities on a living planet as we protect 22

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### workers and communities who are affected by 1


### America's transition to clean energy. 2



### Under the plan, as you all know, the 3



### tools that states c an use include increasing 4


### renewable energy sources, and increasing energy 5


### efficiency. Renewable energy and energy 6


### efficiency investments create far more jobs per 7


### dollars spent than fossil fuels, including 8



### natural gas. 9


### Specifically, a clean energy investme nt 10


### agenda creates more than three times the number 11


### of jobs in the United States as does spending the 12


### same amount of money in the fossil fuel sectors, 13


### including the natural gas sector. 14


### Even better than median salaries for jobs 15


### in the clean sector are nearly $8,000 higher than 16



### wages across the broader economy. And the clean 17


### energy sector is growing at a rate that is nearly 18



### double the rate of growth of the overall economy. 19


### So if done properly, retooling our 20



### economy for clean energy, which the Clean Power 21



### Plan will help us do, will actually lead to a 22

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### massive expansion of good jobs. 1



### We do know that the market alone will not 2


### protect workers or create a fair and just clean 3



### energy economy . And that is why the Sierra Club 4


### and our partners support the strong and jus t 5


### Clean Power Plan. That means that we are asking 6



### the EPA and all relevant federal and state 7


### agencies to work with us to ensure four things. 8



### First, we want to make sure that workers 9


### and communities that are affected by the phasing 10



### out of fossil fuels are treated fairly and 11


### justly. 12



### Secondly, we want to make sure that the 13


### jobs that the plan creates are good family 14


### sustaining jobs. 15



### Third, we want to make sure that 16


### disadvantaged communities receive their fair 17


### share of clean energy related economic 18



### opportun ities. 19



### And fourth, we want to make sure that 20


### clean energy continues to be affordable. 21


### Most of all it's really important for the 22

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### labor and the environmental movements to continue 1


### working together, and to refuse to be divided by 2


### their common opponents. Bey ond some unions that 3


### do have legitimate concerns about their members, 4


### the attacks on the Clean Power Plan are coming 5



### from the same anti

- union corporate polluters that 6



### have sought to destroy the labor movement and 7



### have fought any attempt to address the glob al 8


### climate disruption for decades. 9


### In the last few years climate disruption 10


### contributed to damaging floods, widespread 11


### wildfires, record drought, and Super S torm Sandy, 12


### which together cost American's hundreds of lives, 13


### thousands of jobs, and hundreds of billions of 14


### dollars. We can't afford to wait any longer to 15



### act. 16


### For the wellbeing of America's workers, 17


### for the nation's economy, and for the health of 18



### our planet , now is the time for the labor and 19


### environmental movements to come together in 20



### support of a plan that dramatically reduces 21


### pollution from America's power plants, increases 22

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### good jobs, and reduces the threat of climate 1


### disruption. Thank you. 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you both. 3


### MS. PEREZ: Do you want hard copies of 4


### the testimony for the reporter or

-- 5


### MR. NIEBLING: At the registration table 6


### is best if you don't mind. 7



### MR. HUBBERD: Oh. Great. Thank you. 8



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I would 9


### like to invite up Carter and Olivia Ries, please. 10


### MR. RIES: Would you like me to say my 11



### name? It's Carte r Ries, C

- A

- R

- T

- E

- R R

- I

- E

- S. 12


### Do you want my sister's name too? 13


### COURT REPORTER: If you want to do it now 14


### or if you want to wait until it's her turn. 15


### MR. NIEBLING: I think, if you'd like to 16


### testify together. 17



### MR. RIES: Oh, Yeah. Okay. 18



### MS. RIES: Okay. My name is Olivia Ries, 19



### O

- L

- I

- V

- I

- A R

- I

- E

- S. 20


### MR. RIES: All right. So I want to thank 21



### you guys for letting us come today and to speak 22

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### about this very important issue. My name is 1


### Carter and I'm 13 years old, and this is my 2



### sister Olivia, who will be turn ing 12 at the end 3



### of August. 4


### Together we started our own nonprofit 5


### organization called One More Generation, or OMG, 6



### where we education kids and adults about the need 7


### to help save endangered species and clean up our 8


### environment for at least one more generat ion and 9



### beyond. 10


### During the BP Gulf oil spill we learned 11


### that environmental issues such as plastic 12


### pollution and ocean acidification are major 13


### contributors to the demise of many of our species 14



### around the world. 15


### Although we specialize in teaching kids 16



### abou t plastic pollution, we are very much 17


### concerned with what is happening to our air and 18


### our oceans, which is why we're here today. 19


### Climate change is something that not 20



### everyone yet comprehends, and to be honest, I 21


### don't think we fully understand everything 22

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### c onnected with it, but I do know that it is 1


### something that scares me. 2


### We are already seeing that temperatures 3


### are getting warmer, our polar ice caps are 4


### melting at alarming rates, and more and more 5


### young, elderly, and economically disadvantaged 6


### are becoming ill due to respiratory issues 7


### directly contributed to our changing climate. 8



### We urge the EPA to please strengthen your 9


### draft carbon rule for existing power plants which 10


### as we know are responsible for as much as 30 to 11


### 40 percent of the carbon pollution caus ing global 12


### warming. 13


### The Clean Power Plan will close loopholes 14


### and limit carbon pollution for the first time, 15



### and for that we want to say thanks, we hope that 16


### you will help ensure that our generation has 17


### plenty of clean air to breathe and oceans that 18



### are te aming with life for years to come. Thank 19



### you. 20


### MS. RIES: Well, again, thank you for 21


### letting us come and speak today. As Carter said, 22

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### we are so glad to see so many people who 1


### genuinely care about our environment and how 2


### we're helping to ensure our next ge neration has 3


### clean air to breathe for years to come. 4



### Carter also mentioned that we know more 5


### about plastic pollution than we do about global 6


### warming. We're actually here in Washington to 7



### meet with under S ecretary Novelli and we will 8



### present to her our pla stic and awareness 9


### recycling curriculum that we teach to kids and 10


### adults to teach them about the issue of plastic 11


### pollution. 12


### Global warming is something that affects 13


### all of us. Nearly half of all the Americans live 14


### in an area where air quality is unsafe to 15


### breathe, and the Clean Power Plan is something 16


### that is long overdue and needed. 17


### Thank you for allowing us to come and 18


### speak our concerns and our gratitude for all that 19


### you are doing to keep our planet safe for future 20


### generations. Respectfully, Olivia. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you both very much. 22

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### We appreciate your testimony. 1



### (Applause.) 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next, please, 3


### Richard McCorkle and Laura Henderson. Big shoes 4



### to fill. 5


### MR. MCCORKLE: My name is Richard 6



### McCorkle, R

- I

- C

- H

- A

- R

- D M

- C

- C

- O

- R

- K

- L

- E. 7



### Good afternoon. I'd like to thank EPA 8


### for this opportunity to speak in support of the 9



### Clean Power Plan. 10


### I'm from the Philadelphia area 11


### originally, and for the past 23 years I've lived 12


### in Delaware where smog levels are unhealthy and 13



### asthma sickens 20,000 children and 70,000 adults 14



### each year. 15


### While living in Delaware I've noticed the 16



### weather has become more and more erratic with 17


### each passing year. We have been experiencing 18


### more temperature swings and more extreme rainfall 19


### events which cause widespre ad flooding. Delaware 20



### has been declared as a disaster area four times 21


### since 2000 due to severe storms and massing 22

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### flooding. 1



### In 2013 Delaware statewide precipitation 2


### for June averaged nearly 11 inches, seven inches 3


### above the 30 year mean and a new statewid e 4


### record. And Wilmington set a new record with 5



### 13.7 inches. 6



### On July 28th, 2013, more than seven 7


### inches of rain fell during a four hour period at 8


### Philadelphia International Airport. A new daily 9


### record for the city was set with the rainfall 10



### total for that day exceeding eight inches. The 11


### following day all American Airlines morning 12


### flights, over 530 of them were canceled or 13


### delayed due to the storm's impacts, and many cars 14



### were submerged. 15


### Just one day into August Philadelphia set 16



### a new summer rainfall record with the seasonal 17



### total already 245 percent of the climatologically 18


### average for the entire three summer months. 19


### We may argue about whether a particular 20



### weather event is caused by climate change, but 21


### there is no disputing the fact that a warmer 22

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### atmosphere holds more moisture. This is why we 1


### can expect more of these devastating 2


### precipitation events. 3


### Looking at temperature extremes during 4


### the summer of 2013, nighttime temperatures in 5


### Philadelphia did not drop below 70 degrees for 6



### over 30 days, the longest st ring of days at or 7


### above 70 degrees since recordkeeping began in 8


### 1872. Here in Washington, D.C. the temperature 9


### failed to drop below 80 degrees for five straight 10


### nights. Also a new record. 11



### In December of 2013, the Mid A tlantic 12


### experienced a heat wave wit h temperatures rising 13


### above 70 and breaking records in many areas. The 14



### most unusual aspect of that December heat wave 15


### was the amount by which records were broken, by 16


### 10 degrees in some areas along the east coast. 17



### Just one week ago we learned that a new 18



### gl obal heat record was set for the month of June, 19



### and the world's oceans were the hottest ever 20



### recorded, regardless of the month. 21


### Consider also that a 2013 study revealed 22

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### that during the past 100 years the temperature 1



### rose at a rate that was 50 times faster than the 2


### rate of any other temperature change since the 3


### last ice age which ended 11,300 years ago. 4


### It seems the likelihood of achieving the 5


### goal of not exceeding a two degree Celsius 6


### temperature increase is remote at this point. As 7



### we continue to fail to act scientists are now 8


### predicting that the global average temperature 9


### will increase by at least four degrees Celsius 10


### and possibly as much as six degrees, due to our 11



### inaction. 12


### To date our greenhouse gas emissions have 13


### fueled global average temperature incre ase of 14


### about one degree Celsius. Try to imagine the 15



### climate chaos associated with a four to six 16


### degrees increase. 17


### Living in the coastal state of Delaware, 18


### I'm very concerned about sea level rise. Coastal 19


### towns, ports, and low lying farm lands will be 20



### l ost. I'm sure many folks in this room enjoy 21



### beach vacations. Chances are those beaches that 22

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### you enjoy visiting will be gone by the end of 1


### this century, if not sooner. 2



### In natural situations beaches and dunes 3


### migrate inland with rising sea level. But mo st 4


### of the beaches we enjoy are backed by urban 5


### development, and unless society is willing to 6


### abandon these developed areas and retreat inland 7



### we will be left with sea walls instead of beaches 8



### and dunes. 9


### Those who are opposed to this plan will 10



### try to make a rguments on economic grounds, but 11


### what about the cost to society of more and worse 12



### floods, droughts, and crop losses? 13



### Weather and climate related disasters 14


### have caused $2.4 trillion in economic losses and 15


### nearly 2 million deaths globally since 1971, 16



### acco rding to a new report. In my opinion anyone 17


### opposing these rules on economic grounds doesn't 18



### have a leg to stand on. 19


### The costs of solar and wind power have 20


### continued to decline, and these renewable energy 21



### sources lack the externalities of traditional 22

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### ene rgy sources. 1


### So my time is up? Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. 2


### All right. I would just like to add, I agree 3


### with some of the other folks who have spoke 4


### earlier that I don't feel this plan goes far 5


### enough in terms of its carbon reduction goal. The 6



### time frame fo r full implementation is too slow 7


### and natural gas is not a bridge fuel. We must 8



### transition as quickly as possible away from all 9


### fossil fuels. Thank you. 10



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 11


### MS. HENDERSON: Hello. My name is Laura 12


### Henderson. It's spelled just li ke it sounds. 13



### It's L

- A

- U

- R

- A H

- E

- N

- D

- E

- R

- S

- O

- N. 14


### I want to first say thank you for 15


### allowing me to speak today. Next I would like to 16


### tell you that I, like Richard, am also from 17



### Delaware. 18


### The Clean Power Plan is important to my 19


### family because we already suffer from poor air 20


### quality. Very poor. Delaware

-- see, you're 21


### nodding your head. You know. 22

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### Delaware consistently receives an F in 1


### air quality. There are dozens of days each year 2



### that the State of Delaware issues alerts for 3


### ozone levels and air quali ty. The alerts warn us 4



### not to pump gas, and they tell us that the most 5


### sensitive populations should stay indoors. 6


### On these days, whether it's yellow, 7


### orange, or a red alert, I'm afraid to allow my 8


### seven year old outside. 9



### Most of Delaware is below sea leve l and 10


### the sea level rise has really been a challenge 11



### for us. There are several roads that we cannot 12


### travel on during high tide. Not just during a 13


### storm or after a storm, but during high tide the 14



### roads can't be driven on. 15


### I live in a city that has passed an 16


### ordinance that is against vehicle idling. My 17


### family conserves, we recycle, we compost, my son 18


### is adopted, we even buy most of our clothing 19


### used. What my family and some families in my 20


### city are doing are not enough. If every family 21


### in my state adopted the best and the greenest 22

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### practices, it still would not be enough. 1


### Our tax dollars have gone to bail out 2


### several communities that constantly flooded. 3


### These dollars would be better spent reducing the 4


### carbon emissions from our electricity sources. 5



### Support ing the Clean Power Plan would support the 6


### economy by creating jobs. I know everybody wants 7



### to hear that, but

-- and I'm sure you guys have 8


### heard a lot of that today. But it's true. Green 9


### energy jobs would be good American jobs and it 10



### would help protect everyone's health. Thank you. 11



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I would 12


### like to invite up Michael Zehr and Mary Laur a n 13



### Hall, please. 14


### MR. ZEHR: Hello. My name is Michael 15



### Zehr, and I serve as Vice President of the 16


### Consumer Energy Alliance. 17



### CEA is a nation wide association made up 18


### of energy consumers and producers, working to 19



### advance an all of the above energy policy that 20


### will lower energy costs for every American. 21


### Access to affordable energy is of utmost 22

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### importance to our members because every dollar 1



### spent on energy is a dollar that cannot be spent 2


### on capitol investments, payroll, savings, 3


### groceries, or next year's family vacation. 4


### In order to create economic growth it is 5


### important for the government to implement 6


### policies that will ensure affordable, reliab le, 7


### energy supplies for America's families, farms, 8



### factories, and all small businesses. 9


### If finalized as proposed regulations on 10


### existing electric generating units undoubtedly 11


### cause reliability and affordability concerns for 12



### many states. Particularly thos e that utilize 13


### coal for a large portion of their electric 14


### generation. This is particularly an acute 15


### problem for many states in the Midwest and 16


### Southeast regions of the U.S. where a majority of 17


### states rely on coal powered generation for more 18



### than one third of their electric needs. 19


### As proposed these regulations would force 20


### states to enact policies which would require 21



### utilities and electric co

- ops to prematurely shut 22

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### down coal fire plants, either through the 1


### implementation of fuel switching requirements or 2



### re newable fuel mandates, which will likely lead 3


### to higher electricity prices for energy 4



### consumers. 5


### Given the nature of our electric grid 6


### abrupt changes in our energy mix, particularly 7



### ones that have not been contemplated throughout 8


### the development of the gri d, will reduce dispatch 9


### options and disrupt the fuel diversification that 10


### has been critical to low electricity costs. 11


### Additional plant closures will continue 12


### to have a real and negative impact on state and 13


### local economies. For the most vulnerable among 14



### us , including low

- income families, seniors living 15


### on fixed budget, higher electricity costs cannot 16


### easily be absorbed. In essence they are a 17


### regressive tax. 18


### While natural gas, nuclear alternative, 19



### and renewable electricity generation have become 20



### a much mor e important part of the fuel mix over 21


### the last several decades, and are certainly 22

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### capable of increasing their contributions to the 1


### grid. Developing additional capacity from these 2


### sources in the necessary infrastructure to 3



### realize these expansions will tak e time and 4


### likely come with significant costs to consumers. 5


### We would also like to point out that 6


### EPA's aggressive timeline allows states only one 7


### year to develop a very complex plan that will 8


### need to address a series of adjustments to their 9


### electricity gen eration, consumption, and energy 10


### infrastructure that will come from forcing a 11


### change in the energy mix. 12


### States have historically been given 13


### several years to develop and implement 14


### regulations for criteria pollutants that are a 15


### tiny fraction of the size and scope of the 16


### proposed regulations we are discussing here 17


### today. Forcing through regulations of this 18


### magnitude in such a short timeframe will limit 19


### the ability of states and stakeholders to 20



### thoughtfully prepare for the drastic changes that 21



### this rule will c ause. If this administration is 22

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### comfortable spending more than five years 1


### evaluating the Keystone XL Pipeline it should 2


### feel comfortable taking its time to craft a 3



### thoughtful rule that fully evaluates the 4


### consequences of its proposed actions. 5



### At a time when electricity consumption is 6


### projected to grow it is important that government 7


### regulations and policies avoid electricity supply 8


### disruptions or unnecessary price increases. 9



### As EPA considers how to move forward we 10


### urge the Agency to keep electricity co nsumers in 11


### mind and not promulgate rules that will adversely 12


### affect businesses and family budgets. 13



### As a nation we should strive to have more 14


### of all forms of energy and not simply pit one 15


### form of energy resource against another. We hope 16



### that EPA will consi der the potential economic 17


### impacts on consumers across the nation of these 18


### regulations as it takes the next steps in 19


### developing these regulations. Thank you for your 20



### time. 21



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 22

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### MS. HALL: Hi. My name is Mary Lauran 1



### Hall, M

- A

- R

- Y L

- A

- U

- R

- A

- N H

- A

- L

- L. 2


### So I live in Washington, D.C. and I was 3


### around 21 years old when I first started making 4



### healthier decisions about my transportation and 5


### physical activity. Instead of driving to the bus 6


### stop I would take the extra time to walk. 7



### Instead of taking the bus I would bike every once 8


### in a while. And now I love being active outdoors 9


### in the Washington, D.C. area and our surrounding 10



### states. 11


### I love hiking in Rock Creek Park, running 12


### along the McMillen Reservoir
, biking on the 15th 13



### Street protected bike lane just a few blocks from 14


### here. I have even biked all the way from 15


### Pittsburg down to D.C. on the Great Allegheny 16


### Passage and the C & O Canal. A beautiful route 17


### that really showcases our region's character. 18


### So I said I was around 21 years old when 19


### I started making these healthier choices. I was 20


### also around 21 years old when I first experienced 21



### what it's like to be unable to breathe. When I'm 22

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### on the verge of an asthma attack it feels like 1


### there is a valve that's about to close in my 2


### windpipe. It usually happens when I'm on a run 3



### or on a bike ride, consistent with the exercised 4


### induced asthma diagnosis that my doctor explained 5



### to me. 6


### It starts with just at tickle, almost as 7


### if I could get rid of it if I drank some water. 8


### But then it gets worse. T he valve snaps shut and 9


### I'm left alternating between coughing and 10


### gasping, unable to take a full breath of air into 11


### my lungs for up to 20 minutes at a time. It's 12


### terrifying. 13



### When I choose to walk and bike for 14


### transportation or for exercise, I do so becaus e 15


### it gives me more energy, helps me maintain a 16


### healthy weight, and saves me money. It's 17


### supposed to be a healthy choice, one that helps 18



### my metabolism and boosts my cardiovascular 19


### health. But when I breathe heavily from outdoor 20


### exercise I'm also breathing in dangerous 21


### pollution particles that are fueling my asthma 22

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### and poisoning my lungs. 1


### I love living in Washington, D.C. but I 2


### don't love that every breath I take includes 3


### particles that are damaging to my lung health. I 4


### don't love that the American Lung As sociation 5


### ranked Washington, D.C. as the eighth most 6


### polluted city for ozone in 2014. 7



### There are hundreds of thousands of people 8


### like me who experience adult onset asthma thanks 9


### in part to dangerous pollutants in our 10


### atmosphere. It's even scarier to thin k about all 11


### the children who develop asthma at a young age 12


### due to air pollution. The consequences are even 13


### worse for young kids, for elderly Americans, for 14


### people with chronic diseases, and for people who 15


### live closer to major highway arterials and 16


### polluti ng power plants than I do. 17



### We need to do all we can to stop 18


### preventable lung diseases like mine. The Clean 19


### Power Plan will help protect public health by 20


### limiting the carbon pollution that makes our air 21


### dangerous to breathe. I urge the Environmental 22

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### Prote ction Agency to set a final plan within a 1



### year that provides the strongest limits on carbon 2


### pollution. Anything less is unacceptable for our 3



### nation's health and for the health of our 4


### children. Thank you. 5



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I'd like 6



### to invite up Jayce Hafner and Kathleen Laurel 7



### Imlay, please. 8



### MS . HAFNER: Hi. My name is Jayce 9



### Hafner, and that's spelled J

- A

- Y

- C

- E H

- A

- F

- N

- E

- R. 10


### And I'm speaking on behalf of the Episcopal 11



### Church. 12



### It was the end of the arctic summer when 13



### Charlie first showed me t he cracks in the tundra. 14


### Charlie is a hunter in the arctic village of 15



### Alaska, a Gwich ' in settlement so remote that it 16



### can only be reached by plane. 17


### I am a policy analyst for the Episcopal 18


### Church and was visiting Charlie's village to 19



### reconnect with the G wich ' in community, a native 20


### people with whom the Episcopal Church has enjoyed 21


### a longstanding relationship. 22

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### Like the rest of his village Charlie 1


### depends on Caribou meat to survive. And he 2


### offered to take me to his hunting ground, the 3


### pristine Arctic Natio nal Wildlife Refuge. 4



### Charlie showed me what the scientific 5


### community considers visible effects of climate 6


### change. From his hunting boat he indicated a 7



### wide swath of collapsed riverbank, tumbled spruce 8


### trees tangled in a sinkhole. Once on the tundra 9



### he po inted to a large ominous crack in the land, 10


### two inches wide and spreading across the plain

. 11


### Charlie simply said, the permafrost is melting. 12



### Next he showed me forests of Willows, a 13


### tree species unknown to grow in the refuge before 14



### now. The Caribou's horns catch in the Willow's 15


### branches, he said. They can't get through and 16


### are changing their migration path away from our 17


### hunting grounds. 18


### If the Caribou don't come through, I 19


### asked, how will you eat this winter? 20


### Charlie shrugged. He did not know. 21



### Clima te change is one of the great moral 22

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### issues of our time and scientific evidence points 1


### to carbon pollution as a driving force behind it. 2


### According to researchers at Stamford University, 3


### if unchecked carbon pollution could lead to 4


### 21,000 climate change rela ted deaths. 5


### We already see these tragedies occurring 6


### around the world, displacing populations, 7


### sickening children, and rendering species and 8


### cultures nearly extinct. 9


### Inspired by the growing body of evidence 10


### demonstrating that a transition to a low carb on 11


### society is both feasible and economical, and 12


### equipped the with the knowledge that carbon 13


### plants contribute to 40 percent of carbon 14


### pollution causing climate change. 15


### The Episcopal Church supports carbon 16


### pollution protections for existing power plants. 17


### We thank you for your attention to this issue and 18


### urge swift action to finalize the Clean Power 19


### Plan proposed rule, emphasizing a shift to 20


### renewable energy rather than a transition to 21



### lower carbon fossil fuels. 22

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### We ask this on behalf of our 1


### congregations on the coastlines who are still 2


### recovering from devastating hurricanes. For 3


### those on the plaines and deserts who suffer from 4


### harsher summers and winters every year, and for 5



### all communities who bear the undue burden of 6


### climate change. 7


### Finally, we ask this on behalf of our 8



### brothers and sisters in the Arctic so that come 9


### winter Charlie and his village can survive. 10



### Thank you. 11



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 12



### MS. IMLAY: That was beautiful. I have a 13



### much shorter one. 14


### My name is Kathleen Laurel Imlay, K

- A

- T

15



### H

- L

- E

- E

- N L

- A

- U

- R

- E

- L I

- M

- L

- A

- Y. 16


### And I live in Hyattsville, Maryland and I 17


### want to thank the EPA for making this Clean Power 18



### Plan and holding this hearing. Thank you for 19


### listening to us. 20


### I've lived in Maryland for most of my 21


### life and I've seen the increasing air pollution 22

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### and congestion and deterioration of air quality. 1


### And I fear for my children's health and 2



### livelihoods and futures. 3


### One recent summer as I worked in my air 4


### conditioned office, I realized that my young

-- 5


### my little boy was outside at summer camp on a 6



### code red day. And I moved closer to work so that 7


### I could ride my bicycle so I could save money, 8


### save gas, get exercise, and that's fine in the 9



### winter. But when the summer comes sometimes I 10


### have to resort to driving or in July, the whole 11



### month o f July I'll just have a long, you know, a 12



### cough the whole month. 13


### We are paying a heavy price for air 14


### pollution for carbon emissions and yeah, it's the 15


### EPA's job to protect our environment, our health, 16


### our air quality, and so I support the EPA in 17


### making str ong rules and regulations and enforcing 18


### them to reduce carbon pollution and air pollution 19


### and water pollution. So, thank you so much. 20


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I'd like 21


### to invite up Adeline Rolnick and Aviva Glaser, 22

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### please. 1



### MS. GLASER: My name is Aviva Glaser and 2


### I'm a Senior Policy Specialist at the National 3



### Wildlife Federation. 4


### Like many people who live in the 5



### Chesapeake Bay watershed, I feel a deep 6



### attachment to the streams, marshes, and shores 7


### that provide critical habitat for wildlife in 8



### thi s region. I don't think that I will ever tire 9


### of the seeing the Glossy Ibises , Snowy Egrets, 10


### and American Oyster Catchers that gather in great 11


### numbers in our wetlands during spring migration. 12



### And I can't foresee a time in the future 13


### when seeing fiddler crabs scurrying around mud 14


### flats won't bring a smile to my face. Or when 15


### catching a glimpse of a great Blue Heron feeding 16


### in the marshes alongside my train during my 17


### morning commute doesn't make my day just a little 18



### bit better. 19


### I have six young nephews w ho live in the 20



### Chesapeake Bay watershed, and seeing them begin 21


### to explore the natural world around them is an 22

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### amazing thing. Just this weekend my five year 1


### old nephew told me about how he was learning to 2


### fish. We didn't catch any big fish, he told me, 3



### as he was jumping up and down, bubbling with 4



### excitement, but I got to look at crabs and shrimp 5


### and I just can't wait to go fishing again. 6



### Yet the fish and wildlife that I love and 7


### that my nephews are beginning to love here in the 8



### Chesapeake Bay watershed are faced with an 9


### unprecedented threat right now. Climate change 10


### threatens the very habitat that these vulnerable 11


### species depend on. 12


### That is why we need action now, more than 13


### ever before. And that is why I support efforts 14


### to protect wildlife from the thre at of climate 15


### change. EPA's proposed limits on limits on 16


### industrial carbon pollution are critically needed 17


### to protect America's wildlife from the worst 18


### impacts of climate change. 19



### To protect the Chesapeake Bay's outdoor 20


### heritage for future generations, w e must act now 21


### to cut climate disrupting carbon pollution. As 22

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### this rule moves forward it's important that it be 1


### implemented in a way that ensures that bio

- mass 2


### energy is done right, in a way that takes into 3


### account wildlife and carbon sequestration. We 4



### n eed bio

- mass that replenishes forest habitat
, 5



### rather than degrading forests. And there is 6



### information available now that can be used to 7



### achieve that. 8



### We also need bio

- mass that retains forest 9


### carbon storage in the near term and not far off 10



### into the future . If bio

- mass is included under 11


### the rule emissions reductions must occur by 2030 12



### and no later. 13



### Power plants account for 40 percent of 14


### the carbon pollution in the United States, 15


### contributing significantly to climate change. If 16



### we continue as is we will f ace a future of more 17


### frequent and increasingly violent extreme weather 18



### events, sea level rise, and stressors that will 19


### threaten public health and destroy and degrade 20



### wildlife habitat. 21


### I hope that there will never be a time 22

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### when the spring migration doesn't bring Ibises
, 1



### Herons, and Egrets to the Chesapeake Bay 2



### watershed. I want a future where wildlife 3


### thrives; a future where my nephews can go fishing 4



### and can continue to discover new wonders in 5


### nature every day. That is why I believe that we 6



### need to act on climate change and we need to act 7



### today. I support EPA's Clean Power Plan. 8



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 9



### MS. ROLNICK: Hello, and thank you for 10


### the opportunity to testify today. My name is 11



### Adeline Rolnick and I also work for the National 12



### Wildlife Federation

. 13



### As a supporter of EPA's Clean Power Plan 14



### -- 15



### MR. NIEBLING: I'm sorry. Can you spell 16



### Adeline? 17



### MS. ROLNICK: Yes. A

- D

- E

- L

- I

- N

- E R

- O

- L

18



### N

- I

- C

- K. 19



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 20



### MS. ROLNICK: And I am actually here 21


### today to read a statement for the record by Dick 22

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### Penny of New Hampshire who couldn't be here 1


### today. This is his statement. 2



### I am a licensed New Hampshire fishing 3


### guide. I have lived on the shores of New 4


### Hampshire's Title Water Great Bay for over 50 5


### years, not counting the time spent at my 6



### grandmother's camp on the bay where I learned to 7


### swim at age four. 8



### I support the EPA's efforts to curb 9


### carbon emission from power plants under the Clean 10



### Power Plan. 11



### In all these years we've seen tremendous 12


### changes to both the bay and surrounding areas, 13



### and not that many have been positive. As a kid I 14



### remember that Ice In on Great Bay was always 15



### before New Year's Day, an event that allowed 16



### hundreds of ice fishermen, some commercial and 17


### mostly recreational, to go out on the ice on the 18


### holiday. Their quarry was the incredible schools 19



### of salt

- water smelt that flooded the iced over 20


### bay to feed and in the spring, run up the Great 21


### Bay's fresh water tributaries to spawn. 22

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### In the 1960s, a New Hampshire Natural 1


### Resource Enforcement officer, it was my duty to 2


### patrol this iceb ound community of often as many 3


### as 500 portable ice fishing houses, known as 4


### shanties to all us local people. 5


### There were some ice anglers that came 6


### from as far as 100 miles to fish here. And many 7


### of the thousands of them supplemented their 8



### incomes with th e sale of their hook and line 9



### smelt catches that in the earlier days were often 10


### caught in huge nets dropped through the ice, as 11


### well as caught by hook and line. Catches of 100 12



### pounds or more were notable, but not that rare. 13


### I have witnessed the practica l 14


### disappearance of ice on Great Bay over the last 15


### couple of decades as our winters have warmed, 16


### thanks to more carbon in the atmosphere. 17


### In 2012 there was no good ice all winter. 18


### We have lost a tremendously important fishery. 19



### Water fowl too have been i mpacted by our changing 20


### season. I find that ducks and geese are 21


### migrating to the bay later each year. We duck 22

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### hunters actually had to get the State Fish and 1


### Game Department to adjust our late water fowl 2


### season to end in mid January rather than late 3



### Decem ber, as had been traditional, to accommodate 4


### this late migration. 5


### Warming falls and winters are impacting 6


### our hunting and fishing opportunities and 7


### impacting the economy here along New Hampshire's 8


### coast. I applaud the EPA for taking action to 9



### combat the r oot of the problem, carbon pollution, 10


### and I hope you will do everything you can to 11


### ensure a strong final standard. 12



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I'd 13


### invite up Amber Hewitt and Barbara Bramble. 14


### MS. HEWITT: Good afternoon. My name is 15



### Amber Hewitt. Tha t's A

- M

- B

- E

- R H

- E

- W

- E

- T

- T. And 16



### I work for the National Wildlife Federation's 17


### Northeast Climate Program. I speak to you today 18


### as an individual and a citizen and particularly 19



### as a coastal New Englander. 20


### I thank you for the opportunity to 21


### testify in support of the Clean Power Plan. 22

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### I live and work in the beautiful coastal 1


### city of Newburyport , Massachusetts, which has 2


### been home to my family for four generations. 3


### Last year Newburyport made national 4


### headline news as six houses toppled into the 5



### Atlantic Ocean during one winter's set of coastal 6



### storms. And while it made for a dramatic video 7


### clip what is missing from that message is the 8


### rate at which we got there. 9



### When I looked at photos

-- or still, when 10


### I look at photos from my parents and their 11


### parents, enjoy ing the same beaches that I 12


### frequent now, I notice that the scenery is eerily 13



### consistent. It looks much like our beaches did 14


### for most of my childhood. 15



### But the past decade of photos tell a 16


### dramatically different story. The same porch 17



### that I used to sit on to apply sunscreen before 18


### crossing a boardwalk that bridged 100 yards of 19


### healthy dune, rich with tall grasses, needed to 20



### be sawed from its house last winter so the 21


### approaching high tide would take it with a clean 22

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### break to avoid structural damage to the ho use 1



### itself. 2



### That house survived the winter but is now 3


### neighbored by three empty lots with no indication 4


### that it will not leave the same footprint with 5



### the next nor'easter

. 6


### When I considered how I would allocate my 7


### few minutes of your attention today I wr ote a 8



### first draft of comments full of the statistics 9



### and forecasts that I often use to underscore the 10


### importance of decreasing our reliance on carbon 11


### polluting sources of energy. But then I spoke to 12


### my friends and neighbors in Massachusetts about 13


### my trip here today and who are all newly and 14


### painfully aware that we live on the frontlines of 15


### climate change and that many share our company. 16



### And I decided to deliver their most united 17



### message because maybe you haven't heard that 18



### today. 19



### But on the North Shore of Massachusetts 20


### we have made the shift to responding to the 21


### impacts of climate change that are already upon 22

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### us. Out of necessity that is where we need to 1


### be, but the new reality and the results it will 2


### produce in the coming years need to be part of a 3



### much larger and more holistic package that must 4


### include the implementation of a strengthened 5



### clean power rule. 6


### With this rule and the national regional 7



### and local collaboration that will follow as its 8


### targets are brought to fruition, we can know that 9


### the big p icture is getting brighter. While 10


### coastal populations of people and wildlife brace 11



### for the weather and the storms ahead we will be 12


### empowered to know that we are working within a 13



### larger and concerted effort to learn from our 14



### stories and to build them into what will be a 15


### pivotal moment in changing the trajectory of our 16



### energy path. 17



### So yes, I am here out of fear for the 18


### problem we face and what it means for Coastal New 19


### England and all low lying communities. I am here 20


### because climate change is the single grea test 21



### threat to wildlife and their habitats. I'm here 22

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### because present and future generations deserve 1



### the clean air and clean water that life on this 2


### planet has to offer, and that we will all benefit 3


### greatly from protecting in the immediate near and 4



### long te rm. 5



### Yes, my fury for the challenge of 6


### combating the effects of decades of unchecked 7


### carbon pollution steered me toward this line of 8


### work at a very young age. But the first and 9


### foremost reason I am here today is my confidence 10


### in our ability to rise to the challenge of 11


### climate change by crafting and realizing a 12


### visionary and effective set of solutions. Not 13


### only because we have to and because we are making 14



### constant progress, but because we have a wealth 15


### of potential we have yet to harness. And for 16



### example, our Atlantic offshore wind power 17


### capacity, finally beginning to tap the estimated 18


### 1,300 gigawatts of electricity generation in 19


### fortuitous proximity to some of the largest east 20



### coast markets can carry many states toward and 21


### beyond their standards. Ineffect ive power plant 22

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### rule can attract game changing demand to 1


### deserving clean energy solutions that will create 2


### local jobs, stabilized energy prices, enhance our 3



### nation's competitiveness , and yes, protect future 4


### generations from the dangerous impacts of climate 5


### change. We can't afford to be anything but 6


### determined to reach the clean energy future we 7


### are entirely capable of securing. 8


### I am grateful for the opportunity to add 9


### my voice and I’m inspired by the many of the 10



### words I have heard today. I urge you for th e 11


### sake of Coastal New Englanders and for wildlife 12


### and future generations from coast to coast, to 13


### commit to making this rule the best it can be and 14


### to implement it swiftly. 15



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Barbara? 16



### MS. BRAMBLE: Great. Thank you very much 17



### for this opportunity to testify today regarding 18


### EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. My name is 19



### Barbara Bramble. That's B

- A

- R

- B

- A

- R

- A B

- R

- A

- M

- B

20



### L

- E. 21


### And I'm attending this hearing in 22

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### Washington, where I was born and raised. I'm 1



### here to convey my strong suppor t for the 2



### momentous action that EPA has taken to combat 3


### climate change by setting limits on carbon 4


### pollution from existing power plants. 5


### All of us have an obligation to protect 6


### our children and future generations, and 7


### especially the vulnerable human commun ities in 8


### low lying areas around the world who will bear 9



### the brunt of more violent storms and sea level 10



### rise. 11


### We equally have an obligation to protect 12



### wildlife and our natural resources, which will 13


### see the impact of runaway climate change. The 14


### disruption of climate is presenting one of the 15


### gravest threats to wildlife today and as a lover 16


### of gardening and an avid birder, I applaud EPA 17


### for taking action to combat the root of the 18


### problem, carbon pollution. 19


### I have witnessed the damage of extreme 20



### weather, incl uding hurricanes that has affected 21


### my friends in Coastal North Carolina and New 22

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### Jersey, and out of control wildfires threatening 1



### the homes of other friends in the west of our 2



### country. The changes that have already affected 3


### wildlife, wild bird migrations, and planting 4


### seasons, we will need to take strong action to 5



### reverse the course we are on and I applaud EPA 6


### for taking this significant step. 7


### The Clean Power Plan is indeed a major 8


### step in the right direction because the plan will 9



### help speed the way toward investments in wildlife 10


### friendly sources of clean energy. Just as 11


### important this new rule will help convince other 12



### countries that we are at last serious about 13


### climate change, which will in turn encourage them 14


### to take their own important steps. 15



### As you pr obably know, our procrastination 16


### for all these years has enabled other countries 17


### to hide behind our inertia. By lowering reliance 18


### on coal burning for power production in the U.S. 19


### the Clean Power Plan will also help to protect 20


### wildlife, particularly such a s reducing harmful 21


### emissions of mercury, which poisons fish and 22

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### threatens all of the people who eat them. And 1


### reducing toxic leaks from coal waste ponds. 2


### As you finalize this standard I ask that 3


### you work to ensure that it achieves the deepest 4



### reductions possible by requiring states to use 5


### wildlife friendly renewable energy, such as wind 6


### and solar, and energy efficiency, and not burning 7


### more natural gas or using biofuels that burn up 8


### whole trees or cause indirect land use change. 9



### EPA should strengthen the standard to 10


### reflect this potential. 11



### Others have spoken in this hearing today 12



### about the health and economic benefits of the 13


### proposed rule so I won't repeat those points. 14


### But I wanted to mention just one. While the 15


### solar and wind industries already empl oy more 16


### people than does the coal industry in many 17


### states, we should not forget that there still are 18



### thousands of people who depend on those coal 19


### jobs. They should be provided opportunities for 20


### a positive future in the new energy economy or 21



### other fields. 22

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### The National Wildlife Federation looks 1


### forward to working with you to finalize and 2


### implement the Clean Power Rule. We urge you to 3


### do everything you can to ensure it is 4


### strengthened through the process because wildlife 5


### and future generations are counting o n your 6


### leadership. Thank you very much. 7



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Barbara. 8



### Next up we have Prabh S haran Sing and 9



### Bentley Johnson. 10


### MR. SINGH: Hello. I'm actually wearing 11


### a green suit today to actually show my support 12


### for green and clean power, just t o make sure. 13



### I also want to (indiscernible) 14


### environmental living. But we've also got to be 15


### rational in terms of where our majority of power 16


### is coming from. 17



### I am Pra b h Sharan Sing h

-- 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Excuse me. Oh, sorry. 19



### Okay. 20



### MR. SINGH:

-- who actua lly is a member 21



### of a (indiscernible) administering power, will 22

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### talk about why EPA should be more relaxed in 1



### terms of Clean Power Plan. 2


### And here's the bottom perspectives. So 3


### how much total production will be closed down, 4


### that's my first question. Which all places will 5



### have shutdowns. Are those areas have such amount 6


### of wind power, solar energy, bio energy, hydro 7



### resources to actually produce same amount of 8


### power that we're losing going to the steam or gas 9



### power? 10


### Because every power plant is pretty mu ch 11


### producing on 5 to 100 megawatt per hour, that is 12


### able to give 3,000 to 6,000 homes every month. 13


### How will they get all that energy from renewable 14



### resources. 15


### Next point is that further resources and 16



### deployment will also be there. We need to 17



### install thes e wind hydro turbines that will take 18



### months for approval from FERC and all those DOE 19


### organizations, and we will also trashing those 20


### steam turbines that have been already produced by 21



### these manufacturers. 22

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### We need to focus on carbon emission 1


### reducing technolo gies that has not been the 2



### agenda of DOE or EPA. 3



### We should also focus on more electric 4



### cars. That has not been talked more about here. 5



### Now we just going to talk

-- the cars also 6



### produce a good initiative that EPA hasn't taken. 7


### Why are we producing car s that have a top speed 8


### of 240 miles per hour when NHTSA actually has 9


### only 55 to 75 miles per hour limits. Why are we 10


### producing those cars expensive with a high 11


### combustion engine? Why can't you make them 12



### electric cars? 13


### Let's put it this way, 100 cars tha t are 14


### gasoline based use 150 gallons per day, in 15



### compared to what, 150 gallons totals up to 25 16



### megawatts per hour that can be used by over 7,500 17



### homes per month. 18


### So let's put it this way, six gallons 19



### make up one megawatt per hour that can consume 20



### over 50 0 homes and we have six gallons of 21


### gasoline that can be covered by two to three cars 22

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### in a day. 1


### Next stop I want to talk about is, where 2


### is the other two third of emissions coming from? 3


### Why don't we focus on the 67 percent instead of 4



### 23 percent per state ? Why can't we control more 5


### emissions than actually have

-- be able to focus 6


### on new energy technologies that are being used up 7


### and actually are still adapting to it? 8


### DOE is focusing time on technologies that 9



### are cool in terms of energy but how much are th ey 10


### producing? Ten kilowatt per hour, or max of one 11


### megawatt per hour? Nothing having a conversion 12



### to solar, wind, and we don't have these resources 13



### everywhere

. 14


### Talk is big, I mean, but where are the 15


### rational results? Where are we focusing on? How 16



### can w e get all these solar wind resources from 17



### there? 18


### I hereby stand in the position of 19


### shutting down power plants that actually have 20


### section amount of areas where it can produce 21



### renewable power. Carbon emission control 22

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### technologies lead to the (indiscernible)

. Talk is 1


### big, but hey, actions are tough. 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 3


### MR. JOHNSON: My name is Bentley Johnson, 4



### B

- E

- N

- T

- L

- E

- Y J

- O

- H

- N

- S

- O

- N. And I work at the 5


### National Wildlife Federation here in Washington, 6


### D.C., but I am originally from Michigan and I am 7


### reading testimony on behalf of Deborah Hanson, 8


### also of Michigan. 9


### My name is Deborah Hanson. I am a 10


### chaplain. I work at Sinai Grace Hospital in 11


### Detroit. Every day I saw the human costs of 12


### pollution from power plants, heavy industry, and 13



### an incinerat or. And an abnormally high 14


### percentage of my patients suffered from asthma. 15


### My former hospital is located near the 16


### third most polluted zip code in the U.S. where 17


### the marathon refinery and the DTE coal fired 18


### power plant fouled the air of neighborhoods. 19



### Last November I had the pleasure of 20


### traveling to Chicago with 135 people from River 21


### Rouge Ecourse and Southwest Detroit for an EPA 22

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### hearing on the proposed new standard. 1


### A number of couples brought their 2


### children along. Many of these people were 3


### testifying for the first time. It was exciting 4



### to hear their voices, their dreams, and their 5



### love for their children and their communities. 6



### These people are rarely heard. I want to echo 7


### their concerns. It is people like them, good 8



### people, who have the least politica l power and 9



### the fewest resources who have to live and raise 10


### their families near these power plants and 11



### refineries. 12



### I now live in beautiful Northern 13


### Michigan. I rode that bus to Chicago because my 14



### power co

- op was determined to build the last 15



### clean coal pla nt in the state and the EPA was 16


### proposing an exemption for the plant. This year, 17


### mercifully, they scrapped plans for that 18


### facility. 19


### It's shocking and frightening to me to 20


### see my country lagging behind other countries in 21


### moving to clean renewable sources o f energy. We 22

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### are already feeling the effects of climate 1


### change. It is time for bold action. 2


### I applaud this new standard for power 3


### plants and the proposed standard for refineries. 4


### Both are critical steps moving us away from coal, 5


### improving the quality of our air, and in 6


### mitigating global warming. 7


### I come to you today with one request. 8


### The EPA is holding hearings on the proposed 9



### standard for refineries in California and Texas, 10



### but not here in the heart of the Great Lakes. 11


### Please come to Detroit and giv e some courage to 12


### the disheartened who are living through a 13



### bankruptcy under two emergency managers. 14


### A mother and a community leader said this 15



### when she heard about the proposed rule for 16



### refineries , "I'm ready. I've breathed enough o 17


### this crap. I want my kids to grow up without so 18


### many breathing issues." 19


### We depend on your at the Environmental 20


### Protection Agency to provide the leadership 21


### needed in these times of danger and opportunity 22

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### to ensure a livable world. We commit to help 1


### building the political will to help back you up. 2



### Thank you. 3


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I'd like 4


### to invite up Eva Roben and Ishmael Buckner. 5


### MS. ROBEN: Hi. My name is Eva Roben. 6



### That's E

- V

- A R

- O

- B

- E

- N. And I work at National 7


### Wildlife Federation. I'm going to be reading a 8



### statement on behalf of Beverly A. Newman from the 9


### Planning and Conservation League. 10


### Thank you for the opportunity to submit 11


### formal testimony regarding EPA's proposed Clean 12


### Power Plan. My name is Beverly Newman and I am 13


### writing to you from Folsom , Californ ia to express 14


### my strong support for EPA's historic action to 15


### combat climate change by citing limits on carbon 16


### pollution from existing power plants. 17



### Here in California the starkest reminder 18


### of our changing climate is the current historic 19


### drought, which is c ompromising water access, 20


### agriculture, and the livelihoods of the people 21



### and wildlife who call California home. 22

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### In the San Wakeen Valley community wells 1


### have gone dry, and residents have been forced to 2


### purchase bottled water for drinking, cooking, and 3



### bath ing. 4



### In Northern California unprecedented 5



### wildfires threatened homes and communities 6


### throughout the winter. 7


### For wildlife this drought has been 8


### devastating. Bears and mountain lions are 9


### wandering further and further away from their 10



### habitats into urban and suburban settings in 11



### search of food and water. 12


### Migratory birds have had fewer wet places 13



### to stop and eat as they fly over the state, and 14


### dry river beds threaten the collapse of fisheries 15



### and the extinction of species

. 16


### Climate change promises to make droughts 17


### like this more common and more severe. I applaud 18



### EPA's efforts to reverse the course we are on and 19


### for taking action to combat carbon pollution and 20


### protect our natural resources for communities, 21


### wildlife, and future generations. 22

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### The U.S. EPA's Cl ean Power Plan is a 1


### positive step towards a future that relies on 2


### climate and wildlife friendly sources of clean 3


### energy, rather than fuels that pollute our air 4



### and water. 5


### The Clean Power Plan will go beyond 6


### reducing carbon pollution, protecting fish 7



### popula tions form mercury poisoning, and reducing 8


### the need for coal mines that destroy wildlife 9


### habitat and pollute our rivers and lakes. 10



### The Clean Power Plan will also stimulate 11


### investment and innovation in clean energy 12


### technologies and protect America's natur al 13


### treasures for outdoor recreation. An industry 14


### that contributes $730 billion to the U.S. economy 15



### annually. 16


### As you finalize the standard I ask that 17


### you work to ensure that it achieves the deepest 18


### reductions possible by requiring states to use 19



### wildlife fr iendly renewable energy and energy 20


### efficiency and not simply more natural gas 21


### burning. 22

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### California has long been one of the 1


### engines behind America's clean energy economy, 2


### producing more energy from renewable sources than 3



### any other state. Nevertheless, 80 p ercent of our 4


### power generation comes from nonrenewables and 5


### dirty sources. EPA should strengthen the 6


### standard to reflect this potential. 7


### Thank you for the opportunity to comment 8


### today and we look forward to working with you to 9


### finalize and implement the C lean Power Plan. 10


### Please do everything you can to ensure that it 11



### stays strong throughout the process. 12


### Communities, wildlife, and future generations are 13


### counting on you. 14



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 15


### MR. BUCKNER: Hey. My name is Ishmael 16



### Buckner and I'm a r esident of Maryland from not 17


### too far from here. I'm speaking on my own 18


### behalf, and I guess I wanted to talk first off 19


### just about I guess an incident that happened to 20



### me a couple weeks ago. I left, drove into D.C., 21


### came for a transportation meeting. I go t a call 22

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### from my roommate who called to tell me that our 1



### house had flooded. 2


### And I said, oh, that's not going to be 3


### that big of a deal. Like our house, the basement 4



### door floods down there. 5



### He was like, no, no, no, no, no. Like I 6



### mean, it flooded. Lik e, it's four and a half 7


### feet, the basement is destroyed, Craig's room is 8


### destroyed, my roommate who lives down there. The 9


### dryer is floating. It's bad. 10



### So I came back home. There had been a 11


### flash flood in Northern P.G. County. It was one 12



### of the worst

. I talked to my neighbors, they 13


### have been living across the street for over 40 14


### years and they said they have never seen anything 15


### like it. Our entire basement was destroyed. The 16


### county came in and condemned our house. The 17



### power was cut off. 18


### And the bigg est problem with this isn't, 19


### you know, what's going to happen to me and my 20



### roommates. We're fine. We were able to

-- you 21



### know, I lost 80 percent of my clothes, but I can 22

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### buy more. Things were bad, but we were able to 1



### sort of build back. The basement is still in 2



### construction. 3


### The real problem is what happens when a 4


### storm like that hits again. And the problem is, 5


### it did a couple weeks later, and it knocked down 6


### a tree, knocked out the power in our 7


### neighborhood, destroyed part of someone's house, 8



### destroye d their really expensive car because a 9


### tree fell on it. The street to my neighborhood 10


### was closed again. So I wonder what's going to 11



### happen next month when the next storm comes and 12


### it's strong than that one. And the next month, 13


### and the next year, or in f ive years. And sort of 14


### that idea that we have major problems. 15


### Climate change is real. It's hitting 16


### people. It's not something that we need to worry 17


### about for the future. It's something we need to 18


### worry about now. It's affecting people. It's 19



### affecti ng people across the globe. It's 20


### affecting people across the U.S. and at what 21


### point are we going to address it? 22

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### And the Clean Power Plan seems like an 1



### actual attempt from the U.S. Federal Government 2


### to try and address lowering carbon emissions, 3



### actual ste p in addressing this massive global 4



### problem that the rest of the world has come to 5


### the realization is something that needs to be 6


### addressed that we, like on many issues, are sort 7


### of dragging our feet. 8



### And I'm happy. I'm really actually happy 9



### that the EPA is, you know, helping us to stop 10


### dragging our feet. That in this competition for 11


### renewable energy and for fighting climate change, 12


### you know, we might actually end up not

-- you 13


### know, if it was a race, if climate change and 14


### addressing it and producing ren ewable energy was 15


### a race, at this point the U.S., you know, isn't 16


### even going to place. But these rules are 17


### actually an opportunity. 18


### It's an opportunity for us to do better. 19


### It's an opportunity for us to start to regulate 20



### some of the worst polluters thu s far. Those are 21


### the polluters and the same communities that have 22

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### the highest asthma rates in the U.S. These are, 1



### you know, places that also have some of the 2


### poorest economic diversity in terms of industry. 3


### These are places where companies that have 4



### con trolled the means of operation and life and 5



### survival for those communities for decades and 6



### decades. 7


### To be quite honest, like the coal 8


### industry is dying. It's a dying industry. It's 9


### an industry that offers less jobs almost every 10


### year. It's an industry th at is not where the 11


### innovation is, either in the U.S. or globally. 12



### It's an industry that, you know, has done some 13


### great things in the past. It helped us. It 14


### created a lot of jobs in a lot of places. 15


### I work in Virginia, the Southwest. For 16



### many decades there are lots of good jobs. A lot 17


### of those good jobs start to disappear. You know, 18


### the bottom line is, you know, blowing up 19


### mountains takes more robots and less people than 20


### digging holes in mountains. And now we're 21


### blowing up mountains. 22

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### So we need to really think about how 1


### we're going to help to diversify the economy in 2


### the U.S. and to create jobs for places that have 3


### been hit really hard by the lack of good jobs 4


### created by the coal industry. And a lot of those 5


### places are the places that are going to have some 6


### improvements when we start to diversify those 7


### economies by addressing the reductions in Co2 8



### emissions. 9


### There are couple other issues that I'm 10


### sure you all know that you've been listening to 11


### testimony all day, and you wouldn't work for the 12



### EPA i f you didn't already know the things were 13


### were talking about. There is, you know, a sense 14


### of formality to this, a sense of, you know, 15


### getting the public to talk. But you work at EPA. 16



### You already know this is a big issue. You 17


### already know this is a huge thing, and you 18


### already know the standards you're proposing 19



### aren't good enough. You know for a fact that the 20


### science on reducing carbon emissions is way

-- we 21



### can do way, way more than what these rules are. 22

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### But they're a great first step. And 1



### they're a f irst step that I'm going to help us 2


### walk. That's why I helped organize people to 3


### come here. It is why I decided, you know, I'm 4


### going to come back. I'll be here tomorrow 5


### talking to people, but I decided I wanted to 6



### speak now. There was some space. I wa nt to be a 7



### part of that step. I want to be a part of us 8


### helping to walk forward. And a lot of Americans 9


### are. The majority of Americans think we should 10


### be doing something about climate change right 11



### now. 12


### So no matter how much money is coming in 13



### from ALE C or Dominion or whatever other 14


### corporations are putting in money and putting in 15


### people around the U.S., whether or not it's in 16


### Pittsburg, in Atlanta and whatever hearings, the 17


### reality is most Americans are on the side of us 18


### doing something. And you guys are actually doing 19


### something. So thank you. 20


### Just a couple other points. When you 21


### talk about public health we talk about what 22

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### communities are hit. Black and brown communities 1


### in the U.S. are constantly hit with indignities, 2



### lack of access to fresh food, clean water, and to 3


### be honest it's kind of disgusting that the same 4



### communities that had their land and labor stolen 5


### for hundreds of years are the same communities 6


### that can't get access to food and air. This is a 7


### first step in helping to improve that. Th is is 8


### not just something that we should be doing. This 9


### is something that the U.S. needs to be doing. 10


### And we need to be doing this together. 11


### It's really pitiful that Germany is 12


### outdoing us in terms of solar energy production. 13


### It's really embarrassing con sidering Germany is 14


### cold and doesn't get a lot of sunlight. And a 15


### huge part of the U.S. is actually a big open 16


### desert. A lot of the land in Nevada is actually 17



### controlled by the Federal Government. If we put 18



### solar panels on the desert we'd have power for 19



### the rest of the country. Isn't that a crazy 20


### idea? It's not a complicated one, but it's one 21


### that these rules are going to start to help 22

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### develop. And that's why, you know, I came here 1



### to say thank you. 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. We have one 3



### more person b efore our dinner break, Julia 4



### Brooks

. 5


### MS. BROOKS: My name is Julia Brooks and 6


### I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I'm a 7



### mother of a 10 year old daughter named Coretta. 8


### I support the Clean Air Act because I see 9


### the importance of the steps the countr y is 10


### taking. Our crops, our fruit, our farm lands and 11


### our environment are greatly affected, as well as 12



### our wildlife and environment. 13


### There are an increase in global warming 14


### and nature as well as we know it's greatly 15


### changing. Toxic carbons in the air

- - in our air 16


### and water is at an all time high and our air 17



### increase is

-- asthma is being greatly increased. 18


### To the Board of Physicians, according to 19


### the Board of Physicians asthma has been greatly 20



### increased. 21


### The common practices and awareness of 22

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### these is sues should be addressed and changes 1


### should be put in place. We can all do our part 2



### and raise the standards of clean air as we also 3


### initiate training and resources to move forward 4


### to stop pollution, toxins, and global warming. 5


### Looking back at Three Mile I sland, in 6



### affect it took on the environment and the 7



### residents that resided there, as well as oil 8


### spills and the affect it took on marine wildlife 9



### -- marine life in the country was something that 10


### I will never forget and hopefully will not happen 11


### again. 12



### For generations to come and after us I am 13



### greatly gladly

-- excuse me. I'm gladly happy 14


### that I was here to give a voice to this epidemic 15


### of our country and our environment, and I'd like 16



### to also Protection Agency in taking steps to move 17


### forward as such an impo rtant issue. 18


### We can also help move forward by getting 19


### the public engaged and continuing to have 20


### meetings and workshops and training in addition 21


### to putting bills in place. Thank you. 22

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### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much. 1



### We've now reached our, and surpassed by a few 2


### minutes, our 5:00 hour so we're going to adjourn 3



### until 6:00 or a few minutes thereafter so that 4


### people can grab a bite to eat for dinner, and 5



### we'll resume with about two hours more of 6


### testimony shortly after 6:00. Thank you very 7



### much. 8



### (Dinner re cess from 5:13 p.m. until 6:02 9



### p.m.) 10


### MR. NIEBLING: Good evening. My name is 11


### William Niebling and I'm one of the chairs of 12


### today's public hearing. So thank you for coming 13


### today, or tonight. 14


### Joining me on the panel this evening are 15



### Beth Conlin and Gabriel le Stevens. We are here 16


### today to listen to your comments on two proposed 17


### rules to reduce carbon pollution from power 18



### plants. EPA announced both of these proposed 19



### rules on June 2nd, 2014. 20



### Power plants are the largest source of 21


### carbon pollution in the U.S. , accounting for 22

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### roughly one third of all domestic greenhouse gas 1



### emissions. 2


### The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 3


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 4


### proposal consists of two main parts, state 5


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 6



### power plants, and guidelines to help states 7


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 8


### The proposal gives states flexibility in 9


### determining how to meet their goals. States will 10


### choose what goes into their plans to show how 11


### they will achieve the needed reducti ons and meet 12


### their goals by 2030. 13


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 14



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 15


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 16


### set emissions limits for two groups of power 17


### plants, those that make physical or ope rational 18


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 19


### achievable hourly rate of emissions, and those 20



### that replace components to such an extent that 21



### the new components exceed 50 percent of the 22

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### capital cost of an entirely new comparable 1


### facility. 2



### If you would l ike more details on either 3



### of those proposed rules there are fact sheets 4


### available near the registration desk. 5


### Today's hearing is one of four public 6


### hearings across the country this week on the two 7


### proposed rules. We've had tremendous interest in 8



### each of the hearings and I'd like to thank you 9


### for taking time out of your day to day to join us 10



### and share your comments. 11


### We have a lot of people signed up to 12


### speak tonight and we want to hear from all of 13


### you. So before we get started I'd like to go 14



### back throug h a few housekeeping items and ground 15


### rules that will help make tonight's hearing run 16



### smoothly. 17


### First, please be sure that you've checked 18


### in at the registration desk, even if you're not 19


### planning to speak to night. And if you signed up 20


### to speak online or b y phone but haven't yet told 21



### us that you're here, please step out to the 22

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### registration desk and let the EPA staff there 1


### know that you've arrived. 2


### Second, if you are a speaker you were 3


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 4



### or Room B. This is Room A so make sure you're in 5


### the right room, and if not it's a good time, 6


### probably to switch. 7


### So here's how tonight's hearing will 8


### work. I'll call up speakers in pairs and when 9


### your name is called please come to the table 10



### across from us at the front of the room. When I 11



### call on you to speak please state your name and 12


### spell it for the court reporter. That will help 13



### her a lot. 14



### Your comments will be transcribed and 15



### included in the record of comments on the 16



### proposed rules. 17


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 18


### give comments, and we have a light over here to 19


### help you know how much time you have left to 20


### speak. When the light turns from green to yellow 21


### that means you have one minute remaining. When 22

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### the light turns red it's a signal to wrap up your 1


### testimony. It will flash red and beep when 2


### you've spoken for five minutes and that's the 3


### time to stop. 4


### When you're finished speaking please 5


### remain at the table until the person next to you 6


### has completed his or her testimony. We're here 7


### to listen to you today. That said, a panel 8


### member may ask you questions to clarify some of 9



### your comments that we don't fully understand. 10


### I will then call up the next pair of 11


### speakers after the pairs have finished, and so on 12


### and so forth. If you brought a written copy of 13


### your testimon y please give that to us or to the 14


### staff at the registration desk before you leave 15



### today. 16



### Because of the large number of people who 17


### have signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 18


### everyone, we're going to have to try to strictly 19



### enforce the five minute limit. If you have 20


### additional comments you would like to make you 21


### can submit them in writing and I can assure you 22

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### that EPA gives just as much consideration to 1


### comments we receive in writing as we do to 2


### comments that we receive orally at public 3


### hearings li ke this one. So if you have more that 4


### you'd like to say, please submit it and your 5



### comments will be reviewed. 6


### There's still plenty of time to get 7



### written comments in. It doesn't have to be 8


### tonight, and there are comment cards available at 9


### the registratio n desk. Comments must be received 10


### by October 16th, 2014 and we'll put any written 11


### comments submitted today or between now and 12



### October 16th in the official docket for the 13



### proposed rules. 14


### Instructions for submitting written 15


### comments in other ways are availa ble at the 16


### materials table near the registration desk. 17


### We're scheduled to go until about 8:00 18


### p.m. tonight. We may take an occasional short 19


### break if it's necessary and we'll keep you posted 20


### on that. If you have any questions please see 21



### the staff at the r egistration desk and somebody 22

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### will try to help you. 1


### Finally I would like to ask each of you 2


### in the audience to please be respectful of 3


### everyone who speaks tonight. We have people with 4


### a wide variety of views and we want to hear from 5



### each of you. So that we can do that and to be 6


### fair to everyone we ask that everyone listen 7


### quietly. Even applause can sometimes slow things 8



### down and we want to make sure we get to hear from 9


### everyone who signed up to speak without keeping 10



### you all here too late. 11


### Thank you again for taking the time 12


### tonight to share your comments on the EPA's 13



### proposed rules. 14


### Let's get started. The first two people 15


### for this evening's session that I would like to 16



### call forth would be Matt Gravatt and and Collin 17



### Rees. 18


### MR. GRAVATT: Good evening. M y name is 19



### Matthew Gravatt. That's M

- A

- T

- T

- H

- E

- W G

- R

- A

- V

- A

20



### T

- T. I'm a consultant here in Washington, D.C. 21



### and I'm here today on behalf of the D.C. Chapter 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### of the Sierra Club. 1


### In the Climate Action Plan recently 2


### released by the Obama Administration a par ticular 3



### section stood out to me that said, "While no 4


### single step can reverse the effects of climate 5


### change, we have a moral obligation to act on 6


### behalf of future generations." 7


### Climate change represents one of the 8


### major challenges of the 21st Century, but a s 9



### nation of innovators we can and will meet this 10


### challenge in a way that advances our economy, 11


### environment, and public health all at the same 12



### time. 13



### As the EPA, the Administration, and the 14


### American Public all know our nation is facing a 15


### ticking clock on add ressing climate change. What 16


### we do now in spite of challenges from the 17


### opposition can and should be a bold response to 18


### the problems of greenhouse gas emissions, an 19


### aging power generation fleet, and a serious 20


### public health hazard. 21


### The American people deser ve a common 22

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### senses plan to address greenhouse gas emissions 1


### and mitigate the effects that toxic pollutants 2


### and climate disrupting gases have on children, 3



### families, and communities all across the nation. 4



### The EPA's proposed clean power plan does 5



### exactly that . Presently power generation 6


### facilities are the single largest source of 7


### climate disrupting greenhouse gas emissions in 8


### the United States. They account for roughly 40 9


### percent of total domestic greenhouse gas 10


### emissions and carbon pollution. 11



### While we curre ntly regulate some of the 12


### pollutants produced by burning fossil fuels, 13


### toxic compounds like arsenic, mercury, and lead, 14



### the Clean Power Plan will eliminate carbon 15


### pollution and thus reduce the amount of noxious 16


### and disruptive pollutants currently spewing f rom 17


### power plants all across the nation, including the 18


### one just down the street here in D.C. 19


### As we all know, just as we know that 20



### toxic chemicals are harmful to our bodies and our 21



### communities, we also now know that carbon 22

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### pollution and greenhouse gases have a significant 1


### and devastating effect on the planet. Carbon 2


### pollution exacerbates climate disruption leading 3



### to increased extreme weather events, sea level 4


### rise, and catastrophic tragedies that cost 5


### communities, the federal government and our 6



### national eco nomy billions of dollars each year. 7


### Under the clean power plan the United 8



### States will have a real and actionable framework 9


### to both drastically reduce carbon emissions from 10


### existing power plants and significantly increase 11


### public health. 12



### First the Clean Po wer Plan will reduce 13


### carbon emissions by 730 million metric tons and 14


### that's the equivalent of removing the annual 15



### emissions of half of the homes in the United 16



### States, 67 million. 17


### Second, the plan will have a significant 18


### and measurable effect on public heal th and save 19


### the American people money. The reduction in 20


### emissions will prevent upwards of 140,000 asthma 21


### attacks in children and thousands of hospital 22

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### admissions, and avoid over 470,000 missed days of 1



### school and work each year. 2


### Last, the plan will be a ca talyst for 3


### innovation and entrepre neu rship in developing and 4


### building a 21st Century clean energy economy. 5


### The plan will create jobs, inspire new 6


### technologies, and help realign the United States 7


### as a leader in the design, production, and 8



### manufacture of cl ean energy generation systems 9



### and associated industries. 10


### In addition to these benefits the plan 11



### allows states to choose how to meet plan 12


### objectives and goals. Under the plan individual 13


### states will have the flexibility they need to 14


### develop customized plans and keep energy 15


### affordable, reliable, and ensuring that the 16



### residents have clean air to breath. 17


### Ultimately under the plans, the states 18


### have the ability to develop innovative solutions 19


### that match the unique needs of their workforce 20



### and economy and togethe r might further serve to 21


### amplify and expand job opportunities bring in new 22

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### industry and ensure a robust 21st Century 1



### economy. 2


### In closing, federal agencies from here to 3



### the moon, or at least from the EPA to NASA have 4


### recognized and warned of the very real d angers of 5


### carbon pollution. 6



### There are opponents

-- or opponents of 7


### this plan might seek to sit idly by as the sea 8



### rises to meet them . I think the President put it 9


### right, again in his Climate Action Plan. Again 10



### he said, we are a nation of innovators. W e can 11


### and will meet this challenge. And the Clean 12


### Power Plan is a key step towards doing that. I 13


### applaud the EPA for its bold action and the 14



### release of the Clean Power Plan and encourage the 15


### implementation of these rules and limits without 16



### delay. Thank you. 17



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 18


### MR. REES: Good evening. My name is 19


### Collin Rees and I work with the youth sustainable 20


### development and climate advocacy group called 21



### Sustain U.S. 22

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### As a trained engineer who has worked on 1


### climate change in business, civil s ociety, and 2



### the U.S. Government, I have been involved in 3


### policy and climate issues for many years. 4


### I'm here to testify in favor of a strong 5


### and just carbon pollution standard under Section 6



### 111D of the Clean Air Act. 7



### The draft standards released last mon th 8


### are not nearly strong enough and will not do 9


### enough to change our energy mix and put us on the 10


### path to a clean energy future and a livable 11



### planet. 12


### Global warming is real. It 13


### disproportionally impacts our most vulnerable 14


### populations who contributed th e least to 15


### cumulative greenhouse gas emissions, and its 16


### effects are already impacting and killing 17


### millions of people across the U.S. and the world. 18


### It will only continue to worsen until we 19


### make a true meaningful commitment to stopping it. 20



### These standard s for existing sources can be an 21


### important step in that commitment, or they can be 22

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### weak and lack ambition as the draft standards do 1



### now. 2


### Simply put the overall 2030 target for 30 3


### percent of emissions reductions from 2005 levels 4


### outlined in the proposed rul e is laughably weak. 5



### One of the stated goals of the Obama 6



### Administration's Climate Action Plan is for the 7



### U.S. to be an international leader on climate and 8


### help guide the world to a safe climate future. 9


### If the Administration brings this 10


### mitigation target of 30 percent to the table 11


### during the next 18 months of the United Nations 12


### Climate Talks, it will dangerously derail the 13


### negotiations process and dim hope for a 14


### meaningful global agreement. 15


### Earlier this year the Union of Concerned 16


### Scientists reported tha t encouraging natural gas 17


### based energy production will lead directly to a 18


### future energy mix in which 2050 emissions will be 19


### virtually identical to today's emissions. 20



### Reductions for more efficient and retired coal 21


### plants will be negated by retirement of lo w 22

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### carbon nuclear plants, none of which will be able 1


### to compete economically with gas and renewable 2



### energy sources. 3


### Natural gas extraction also has direct 4


### and harmful impacts on frontline communities in 5



### the U.S. A true commitment to emissions 6



### reductions me ans we must severely limit carbon 7


### pollution from natural gas sources. But these 8


### proposed standards achieve the opposite by 9


### encouraging new natural gas development and the 10


### switching of plants from coal to natural gas and 11


### combined cycling. 12



### I would also like to express my strong 13



### concern that the draft 111D standard incentivize 14


### development and continuation of carbon trading 15


### systems rather than meaningful investments in 16


### efficiency and renewable energy sources. 17


### All such existing trading systems fail to 18



### achieve their stated goals due to poor 19


### construction and gaping loopholes and 20


### disproportionately target communities impacted by 21


### extraction and environmental justice concerns. 22

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### This sort of business friendly approach 1


### buttresses the false narrative that given proper 2


### incentives the existing energy system will change 3


### its ways and reduce emissions drastically. 4


### History and common sense show this to be 5


### a farcical ideal. Only by implementing systemic 6


### change and building a new energy sector will the 7



### world succeed in meetin g continued development 8


### goals while adequately mitigating and adapting to 9


### the ravages of climate disruption. 10


### I urge the EPA to not underestimate the 11


### responsibility that lies before them. The window 12


### to address the climate crisis is closing rapidly 13



### and we m ust act on climate now. The climate is 14


### changing, extreme weather events are on the rise, 15


### and millions of people are already dying and 16


### being displaced due to the impacts of climate 17


### disruption. 18


### Current generations are dangerously 19


### imperiled and the fate of future generations lies 20


### in your hands. By issuing just ambitious carbon 21


### pollution standards based on science and 22

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### commensurate with the scale of the challenge 1


### ahead of us, America can be a global leader in 2


### fighting climate change and put us on a path to a 3



### clean energy future and a healthy planet. 4


### Anything less is an abandonment of basic human 5


### rights and a tarnished climate legacy. 6


### Thank you for your time. 7



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next I would 8


### like to invite up, please, Molly Simon and Sam 9



### Lockhart. 10



### MS. SIMON: Hi. My name is Molly Simon 11



### and I work for the National Wildlife Federation 12


### and I am delivering testimony on behalf of Burr 13


### Tupper, who is the former chair of Trout 14


### Unlimited in New Hampshire. 15


### New Hampshire, geographically, is the 16



### sixth smalle st state, yet we have over 12,000 17


### miles of streams and rivers and over 1,000 ponds 18


### and lakes. We have a rich heritage that we are 19


### obligated to protect today and for future 20


### generations. 21


### As a freshwater angler in New Hampshire I 22

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### am concerned about the incre asing number of major 1


### storms, the higher water temperatures, and the 2



### decrease in cold water habitat that we have been 3


### experiencing in the last few years, and their 4


### impact on cold bird species and their habitat. 5


### Our planet is facing a time of 6



### unprecedented environmental climate change. The 7


### warming of the Earth's surface is predicted to 8


### have dramatic effect on human society, wildlife, 9



### and water and fish. 10


### A litany of scientific evidence 11


### demonstrates that due to the buildup of carbon 12



### dioxide, methane, nitrou s oxide, and greenhouse 13


### gases, our atmosphere is warming and that global 14


### climate change is changing at a rapid pace. We 15



### have the tools and knowhow to impact this decline 16



### today. 17


### While the climate crisis is ultimately a 18



### global problem we can be the leader in driving 19


### forward policies here at home. Addressing carbon 20


### pollution requires the following priority 21


### actions. Use and protect the proven existing 22

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### laws to tackle carbon pollution. The Clean Air 1


### Act was put in place to protect people and 2


### wildlife from p ollution. Under this law the EPA 3


### has the authority and the obligation to limit 4


### carbon pollution, most notably from large sources 5


### like coal fired power plants. 6


### Prioritize clean energy and reduce fossil 7



### fuel use. A serious effort to reduce carbon 8


### pollution must include smart energy choices that 9


### reduce dependence on fossil fuels and move us 10


### quickly towards a future powered by clean energy. 11


### It is essential that clean energy sources be 12


### developed in an environmentally responsible way 13


### to minimize potential effe cts on fish and 14



### wildlife. 15


### Trout and Salmon are especially 16


### vulnerable to global warming because they are 17


### dependent on cold clear water to survive. When 18


### the cold water warms these rising temperatures 19


### will have negative impact on the fish and eggs 20



### and the adults. Trout and Salmon are already 21


### facing pressures and their current habitats are 22

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### threatened by urbanization, farming, logging, and 1


### mining. This, coupled with climate change will 2


### reduce or eliminate many trout and salmon 3



### habitats. 4



### There are already indications that cold 5


### water habitats in our state are being impacted by 6


### increasing algae. Aquatic insects, their food 7


### source, are emerging sooner, and the rivers and 8


### parasites and diseases that were limited by cold 9


### water are increasing as streams, ponds, and lakes 10


### are warming sooner. This impacts the size and 11


### number of fish produced naturally. 12


### We can no longer wait to take action to 13


### address the increasing threats to New Hampshire's 14


### fresh water fish. Climate change is already 15


### having significant impacts on important rivers, 16


### streams, lakes, and ponds, and the aquatic 17



### habitats and their native organisms and fish. We 18


### need to act now to tell our congressional 19


### delegation to continue to support current 20


### legislation and help enact additional legislation 21



### that will protect our precious resources. Thank 22

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### you. 1



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 2


### MS. LOCKHART: Hi. My name is Saman tha 3



### Lockhart, L

- O

- C

- K

- H

- A

- R

- T, Samantha, S

- A

- M

- A

- N

- T

4



### H

- A. 5



### And I work for the National Wildlife 6



### Federation as the National Outreach Coordinator. 7



### But t oday I'm going to be reading the testimony 8


### of our affiliate representative from the North 9



### Carolina Wildlife Federation. His name is 10



### Richard Mode. 11



### Members of my panel, and the panel, my 12



### name is G. Richard Mode. I don't know what the G 13



### stands for. I am from Morganton, North Carolina. 14



### I've been involved in wildlife conservation for 15



### four decades. 16


### During my adult years I have had the 17


### opportunity to serve as a volunteer leader with 18


### organization that champion wildlife conservation. 19



### I serve through all th e volunteer leader 20


### offices in Trout Unlimited from local chapter 21


### president through national president and chairman 22

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### of the board. 1



### Currently I am a senior member of the 2



### North Carolina Wildlife Federation, Board of 3



### Directors , and serve as affiliate represent ative 4



### to National Wildlife Federation. 5


### During that volunteer service I was 6


### blessed to receive the highest awards all three 7


### organizations bestow, and in 2007 I received the 8



### Budweiser National Fish and Wildlife Foundation 9



### National Conservationist of the Year Award. 10


### I review that background only because as 11


### lifelong angler and wildlife habitat advocate I 12


### have had the opportunity to communicate with and 13


### work with hundreds of thousands of sportsmen and 14



### wildlife enthusiasts , from the length and breadth 15



### of our cou ntry. 16


### Like me they spend their time outdoors 17


### and spend their hard earned dollars on the 18


### outdoor interests they love. It is the very 19


### nature of a passionate sportsman that they 20


### experience and observe our natural world and 21



### wildlife habitats. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### When you spend your time afield for a 1


### period of years it is easy to see the impacts of 2


### climate change on wildlife habitats. It is the 3


### consensus of the sportsmen and the wildlife 4


### community that wildlife habitats are changing, 5


### and changing quickly. 6



### As a dedicated trout angler I have 7


### observed trout streams warming, streams that are 8


### marginally cold enough to maintain a trout 9


### population are warming to a point that they will 10


### no longer sustain trout. Cold water scientists 11


### predict that a small rise in temperatures will 12



### reduce the range of the Appalachian Brook Trout, 13


### North Carolina's only native salmonid species to 14


### a small percentage of its contemporary range. 15


### For almost 40 years one of my family's 16


### favorite trips is to go to Eastern North Carolina 17


### to fish Phelps Lake for large mouth bass. We've 18


### always gone in June because this Picosin spring 19


### fed natural lake was warm enough for the kids to 20


### swim in and warm enough to wade, wet, and throw 21


### popping bugs to bass in the grass beds. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### The past two summers we went down a few 1



### weeks early. The water was so hot it was 2



### uncomfortable to wade in. Bass were driven out 3


### of their normal feeding and nursery grounds in 4


### the shallow weed beds to deep water with no 5



### cover. The bass were nowhere to be found in 6



### cover. 7



### As an avid duck hunter I have tra cked 8


### migratory bird patterns from 45 years. For years 9



### we hunt our local Wood Ducks and Mallards early 10


### in the season. After they migrate away from our 11



### area we usually have only a few ducks. But then 12


### sometime after Christmas the large flocks of 13


### migratory birds move into our area from up north. 14


### Over the last few years those birds have come 15



### later and later. 16


### During last winter season they did not 17



### come. It was a season that wasn't in the 18



### foothills of Western North Carolina. A much 19


### anticipated trip to Sout hern Maryland the last 20


### week of the season in February was called off 21



### when our host called and said, don't come, the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### birds are still doing the backstroke in Canada. 1



### Conservative estimates of sea level rise 2



### on the coast of Eastern North Carolina show that 3



### we are going to lose 1,500 square miles of prime 4



### estuarine habitat. This is incredible wildlife 5


### habitat and supports a robust seafood nursery 6


### habitat and migratory bird habitat. 7


### We currently have mercury advisories on 8


### fish consumption in North Carolina fro m the Great 9


### Smoky Mountains to the Outer Banks. It's 10


### appalling that North Carolinians cannot consume 11


### the fish they catch due to toxins spewed into the 12


### air. Our loss of the special places and the 13


### special pursuits we hold dear and our call to 14



### protect them from the worst consequences of 15


### climate change and toxins is admittedly self

16


### serving. But these pursuits are also an economic 17



### driver in the state and serve all North 18



### Carolinians. 19


### Two and a quarter million people hunt, 20



### fish, and observe wildlife in the st ates. We 21


### spend $2.6 billion a year in the pursuit of our 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### passion and create over 46,000 jobs. 1


### Additionally outdoor recreation related tourism 2


### is a major economic driver in the state. This 3



### business relies on a robust natural resources 4



### base to continue to attract visitors. 5



### I have two granddaughters, and another on 6


### the way. I want them to be able to experience 7


### the joys of wild North Carolina the way I have. 8


### Fifty years from now I do not want their children 9


### to be drawing cartoons of you and me with our 10



### hea ds in the sand. I do not want them editing a 11


### caption over the cartoon that says something 12


### like, "You had the opportunity, why didn't you 13



### act?" 14


### The sportsman and wildlife community 15



### applaud the development of these carbon rules 16


### that impact new coal burning power plants, 17


### welcome the mercury rules, and hope you will 18


### proceed with speed to implement these rules as a 19


### next step to protecting wildlife habitats and our 20


### natural world from the worst impacts of climate 21


### change and toxic emissions. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### After these rules ar e implemented we urge 1


### EPA to proceed with rules that would deal with 2


### existing coal burning power plants and accomplish 3


### the same objective. Thank you. 4



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next up we 5


### have James Collins and Stephanie Heron. 6



### Why don't we go ahead and skip to the 7


### next two people and when James and Stephanie come 8


### in they can be next. That would be Ann 9


### Darwickirn and Raymond Palencia, please. Ramon, 10



### excuse me. 11


### I guess it's just you. 12



### MR. PALENCIA

- CALVO: I don't know who is 13



### the other person. You want me just

-- buen o s 14


### noches. Good evening and thank you for the 15


### opportunity to provide the following comments. 16


### My name is Ramon Palencia

- Calvo, R

- A

- M

- O

17



### N P

- A

- L

- E

- N

- C

- I

- A, hyphen, C

- A

- L

- V

- O. And I am 18


### the Latino Outreach Program Director of the 19



### Maryland Leag ue of Conservation Voters, an 20


### organization that advocates for sound 21


### environmental laws and policies and monitors he 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### environmental choices of its elected officials. 1


### I am providing comments today on behalf 2


### of Casa De Maryland, Green Latinos, Latino 3



### Justice, Peace and the Integrity of Creation, 4



### Committee of St. Camilla's Catholic Church, 5


### Maryland League of Conservation Voters, and 6



### Maryland Churches Center, which represent a large 7


### and diverse segment of Maryland's Latino 8


### population and across the country. 9



### We su pport the Environmental Protection 10


### Agency's efforts to limit carbon pollution from 11


### existing power plants. Moreover, we would like 12



### to express the concerns of overburdened Latino 13



### communities and to offer specific recommendations 14



### on how the Environmental Pro tection Agency can 15



### better address those concerns. 16


### Climate change is one of the biggest 17


### public health threats of our time. Among 18



### Latinos
, respiratory diseases are reaching 19


### epidemic proportions. Air pollution is one of 20



### the main causes , e specially carbon di oxide and 21



### other pollutants released from power plants and 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### other facilities which also cause climate change. 1


### Since nearly 40 percent of Latino families live 2


### within 30 miles of a power plant and many lack 3



### the health insurance and access to basic 4



### healthcare services, we are the first to feel the 5


### impacts of climate change and these pollutants, 6


### and the last to receive help. For us
, the Clean 7



### Power Plan is crucial to the health and safety of 8



### our communities. 9


### As the proud father of a five year old 10



### daughter and a sufferer of childhood asthma I am 11


### concerned about the high rate of asthma in our 12


### community. One in 10 Latino children suffer from 13



### asthma , e ach a real story of a family that might 14



### not be able to afford medicine or take their kids 15


### to the hospital when they are having an asthma 16


### attack. A story of kids that cannot play soccer 17


### with the rest of their friends or just have a 18


### normal life and thrive. This scenario that plays 19



### out far too often in Latino communities. 20



### For Latinos and other minorities
, the new 21



### standa rds have the potential to be real life 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### savers and dramatically benefit the safety 1


### wellbeing, and the health of our communities by 2


### protecting our children, grandchildren, and 3


### future generations from the harmful effects of 4


### carbon pollution. 5



### However, there are a number of concerns 6



### that need to be addressed to protect the welfare 7



### of our burdened communities and increase their 8


### capacity to address environmental injustice and 9


### environmental health disparities. 10



### We recommend that the EPA conducts a 11


### thorough environ mental justice analysis of this 12



### proposed plan and make s environment al justice 13


### analysis conducted at the state level a required 14


### part of the state implementation plan. 15


### We suggest significant engagement efforts 16



### wi th the most vulnerable communities and 17



### inclusi on and participation of community 18


### advocates and environmental justice leaders 19


### during the state implementation process. 20



### We also recommend energy that solutions 21


### benefit communities. From housing incinerators 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### to the exploration and extraction of natural ga s, 1


### community concerns must be seriously taken into 2



### consideration. 3



### States need to make sure low income 4


### communities have fair access to renewable energy 5



### programs and renewable energy systems. 6


### Finally, in representing Latinos for 7



### Maryland and across the coun try, we urge you 8


### stand firm on your commitment to protect the 9


### health of all Americans and support Executive 10



### Order 12898, Federal Action to address 11


### environmental justice in minority populations and 12


### low income populations, mak ing environmental 13


### justice an int egral part of the Environmental 14


### Protection Agency's mission. 15


### Muchas gracias, and thank you. 16



### MR. NIEBLING: Gracias. Are James 17


### Collins or Stephanie Heron present? 18


### MR. COLIN: First, thank you for changing 19


### my time at the last minute. 20



### MR. NIEBLING: No problem. 21


### MR. COLIN: My name is James Collins. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### I'm a student organizer and undergraduate and I'm 1


### also a dual citizen of United States and Japan. 2


### But despite my dual citizenship I've only really 3


### become an environmentalist so far in only the 4



### United States . An that's because having spent my 5



### entire life back and forth between the U.S. and 6


### Japan and viewing politics through the lenses of 7


### both nations, I can easily say that the Japanese, 8


### like the citizens of many other countries, 9


### display greater concern when it comes to tackling 10


### climate change. 11


### Not only is there frequent discourse on 12


### the issue within the Japanese political arena, 13


### but there is also a strong, what I would call, a 14


### climate change culture ingrained in the daily 15


### lives of the people there as well. 16


### This is why, when I left my home and 17


### moved to the United States for higher education I 18


### was shocked to see the lack of action and apathy 19


### among policy makers on the issue. I therefore 20


### thought the most civil and perhaps most patriotic 21


### thing I could do for th is country would be try to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### change that. 1



### The United States is the world's greatest 2


### superpower with the capacity and responsibility 3


### to lead the world to the most pressing issue of 4



### our time. 5


### With the shredding of the Kyoto accords 6



### and the failure to reach a binding agreement 7


### during Copenhagen accords many Americans with 8


### deep concerns for environmental issues have 9


### become embarrassed by the actions or inactions of 10


### their government. 11


### Though our current president attempts to 12



### work with the rest of the internationa l community 13


### in reducing Co2 levels his credibility is 14


### weakened as he cannot make any serious change 15


### domestically. The rest of the world is 16



### frustrated and has had enough of the U.S.'s 17


### passivity on the issue. 18


### For instance, during Warsaw U.N. Climate 19



### Change Conference last year, and after the huge 20


### typhoon that killed thousands of people in the 21


### Philippines , we saw representatives of the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Philippine delegate go on hunger strike for the 1


### duration of the conference until a meaningful 2



### agreement was made. And at the same conference 3


### we also saw a group of 133 developing countries 4


### participate in a walk

- out during the proceedings 5



### after frustrations over the lack of 6


### responsibility by the more industrialized 7



### countries such as ours. 8


### On climate action the frequent criticism s 9


### I hear all the time from skeptics is that doing 10


### anything to reduce Co2 would be futile as long as 11



### the two other big polluters, India and China 12


### remain passive. Well, even as we speak both 13


### those nations have taken more radical steps to 14



### reduce Co2 emission s, with India having 15


### implemented a nationwide carbon tax, and China 16


### investing twice as much money on renewable energy 17



### investments than here in the U.S. 18


### So, I believe the skeptics should stop 19


### pointing fingers and realize that the change 20



### needs to happen he re, and it can happen here. 21


### It's time that we wake up and realize 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### that change must come here and the Clean Power 1


### Plan proposal is not only just welcoming for 2


### pretty much everyone in this room, but also a 3


### great opportunity for the United States to join 4



### the rest of the international community in taking 5


### serious efforts toward tackling climate change. 6


### We must start taking

-- we must start 7


### creating a climate change culture here in the 8



### U.S. as well and use our great power to shoulder 9


### this great responsibility. T hank you. 10



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 11


### MS. HERON: My name is Stephanie Heron. 12


### I'm with the Delaware Chapter of the Sierra Club 13


### and I was not planning to speak so I did not 14


### prepare any comments in writing, so I'll try to 15


### be brief and on topic. But I can't promise 16


### anything. 17


### Being from Delaware and having always 18


### lived in Delaware except for the four years that 19


### I was in college in Virginia, I have always cared 20


### about the environment but not always known that 21


### I've cared about it, not necessarily even 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### realizing what the environment really was until I 1


### was in college. 2


### In 2009 I had the very amazing 3


### opportunity to go on a service trip to New 4



### Orleans to visit

-- visit, I guess, is a weird 5



### word. New Orleans . And we participated in 6


### rebuilding a house there that had b een torn apart 7


### by Hurricane Katrina, which I believe was in 8



### 2005. When I was there in 2009 there were 9


### houses, still whole neighborhoods abandoned, 10



### houses with an X with a circle around them with 11



### numbers on the different corners of the Xs, which 12



### I came to realize after being told that the 13


### different numbers meant the things they found 14


### inside, including people's bodies. So that was 15


### very life changing and weird and amazing 16


### experience all at the same time. 17


### One of the things that really touched me 18



### about that ex perience was that the people who 19



### lived in that area were so appreciative and so 20



### wonderful and so happy that you were there to 21


### help them, and that they really didn't 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### participate in the way that I participated and a 1


### lot of other people did in causing the pro blems 2


### that were effecting them, climate change being 3


### obviously a main problem. Although they are SCD, 4


### at sea level, which was not something that I knew 5



### how much I could relate to until I moved back to 6



### Delaware after college. 7


### Living in Delaware I believe s omeone from 8


### our group mentioned it earlier today, but there 9



### are a lot of roads in Delaware that are 10


### impassible. Sometimes just at high tide, and 11


### certainly always after it rains. Route 9, down 12


### the coast of Delaware, which is almost entirely a 13



### coastal stat e is a road that is very beautiful. 14


### It's along the Delaware River, a lot of it, and 15


### it's a quicker way to to get to some places that 16



### I would normally go. But I never go on that road 17


### because as part of my personal commitment to the 18



### environment I have a ve ry small car and it is 19


### very low to the ground, and there is water that I 20


### cannot drive through on a regular day. 21


### So we feel the impacts of climate change 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### every day in our state. No Delawarean lives more 1


### than eight miles, I believe it is, from tidal 2



### water s. And Delaware is estimated by our own sea 3


### level rise advisory committee that by 2100, 4


### between eight to 11 percent of our state will be 5


### permanently inundated by sea water that's not 6


### during a flood event or a storm. That's all the 7


### time. That is really h uge. 8


### Also, being from a small state that is in 9


### between a lot of big cities, D.C. being one of 10



### them, sort of in between D.C. and New York, which 11


### is convenient but not when you are breathing. We 12


### certainly

-- not to say that we have no part in 13



### our own air quality problems, but Delaware is 14


### consistently rated by the American Lung 15


### Association with a D or an F grade. Usually an F 16


### in ozone, especially in the county in which James 17


### and I live, which is New Castle County. Our 18



### state has been

-- consistently have c omplaints 19


### with the Clean Air Act, partially because of our 20


### own doing and partially from pollution that blows 21


### into our state from power plants in other states 22

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### that we have no control over. 1


### And as somebody else when I was in here 2



### earlier mentioned, we have a very very severe 3


### problem with asthma. Particularly the childhood 4


### asthma. I know this very personally from having 5


### a slight case myself. I sometimes need a respite 6


### inhaler, but it's not very bad. I do however 7


### have an eight year old cousin, just turned eight, 8


### who has to do the inhaler, the puff machine every 9


### single night. And there are several several 10


### dozen days a year when it's not safe for her to 11



### even be outside in our state. 12


### So I just wanted to say that I really 13


### support the efforts and this effort to come up 14


### with the Clean Power Plan and I really support 15


### the idea behind it and the quick implementation 16


### of it. But I don't feel that it goes far enough 17


### and I do agree with many others, though I won't 18


### repeat, that it does tend to emphasize power 19



### switchi ng from coal to natural gas, which is 20


### fossil fuel to fossil fuel, and it's not good 21



### enough. So, thank you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much, 1


### Stephanie. 2



### MS. HERON: Also, I have 35 postcards 3



### from other Delawarians who couldn't make it. 4


### Should I give the m out at front? 5


### MR. NIEBLING: At the registration desk 6



### would be great. 7



### MS. HERON: Okay. Thank you. 8



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you very much. And 9


### is Ann Darwickirn present now? 10



### MS. HERON: No, she's in the other room. 11



### They told

-- should I get her and bring her in? 12



### MR. NIEBLING: Sure, eventually. But 13


### we'll move on to Joe Power and Tom Quinn, please. 14



### MR. POWER: Shall I start, or

-- 15



### MR. NIEBLING: Please. 16


### MR. POWER: Okay. Well, my name is Joe 17



### Power, P

- O

- W

- E

- R, P as in Paul, O

- W

- E

- R. 18



### I'm Vice President of Federal Legislative 19


### and Regulatory Affairs for Ameren Corporation. 20


### Ameren Corporation is a public utility holding 21


### company with electric and gas utility subsidiary 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### or operating companies, serving roughly 3 million 1


### people in Missouri and Illinois. 2



### Amer en believes that the proposed rule is 3


### legally and technically flawed, will result in 4


### significant cost increases to our customers and 5


### businesses, cause job losses and damage the 6



### economy. 7



### However, before I discuss our concerns I 8



### will discuss what Ameren has been doing to 9


### protect the environment and our plans going 10



### forward. 11


### For many years Ameren has been taking 12


### steps to reduce emissions with the goal of 13


### transitioning our fleet to a cleaner, more 14


### diverse portfolio. We have installed scrubbers 15



### and other pollu tion control devices, improved 16



### unit efficiency , converted landfill gas to 17


### energy, contracted for wind power, expanded our 18


### nuclear capacity, promoted and are installing 19



### solar power, increased hydro capacity, and 20


### implemented significant energy efficiency 21



### pro grams in both Illinois and Missouri. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### We have made progress in reducing our 1


### carbon footprint and are executing a 20 year plan 2


### designed to reduce emissions even further in a 3


### responsible manner. Our plan involves adding 4


### more renewables and combined cycle n atural gas, 5


### increasing energy efficiency, retiring coal 6


### plants at the end of their useful lives, and 7


### replacing them with cleaner resources, as well as 8


### retaining options for greater levels of nuclear 9


### generation. 10


### Our plant can achieve, at 30 percent 11



### reductio n from 2005 emission levels, over a 12


### slightly longer timeframe at a cost to consumers 13


### that we currently estimate at $4 billion lower 14



### than the cost of EPA's proposed rule. And that's 15


### just with respect to our customers. 16


### Turning now to EPA's proposal, Ameren 17



### recommends that EPA define and limit the emission 18


### standards based solely on what is achievable at 19


### existing power plants. States should then be 20


### given the flexibility to develop any programs 21


### that achieve an equivalent emission reduction. 22

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### If EPA rejects thi s proposal numerous other 1


### changes should be made. And I'll highlight a 2



### couple of them now. 3



### First and foremost, EPA should eliminate 4


### the aggressive interim goals that start in 2020. 5


### Failure to make this adjustment will cause Ameren 6



### to incur 2 billion in c apital investments by 7


### 2020, which will in part lead to nearly 4 billion 8


### of higher rates, $4 billion of higher rates, for 9



### customers through 2034. 10



### We recommend you replace the interim 11


### retirements with a directive to states to develop 12


### nonbinding emission re duction milestones that are 13


### reasonably achievable and reflect the state's 14


### view of the appropriate glide path to the state 15


### reduction goal. This single action will greatly 16


### reduce the cost of the rule and will provide 17


### greater flexibility to the states. 18



### We al so believe that target compliance 19



### states should not be set in stone at 2030. 20


### Rather, states should be given the flexibility to 21


### extend the date in order to allow the orderly 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### transition of generation fleets. This will help 1


### mitigate the potential for liabil ity concerns and 2


### rate shock, which will be particularly harmful to 3



### our low income and fixed income customers. 4



### For Ameren the compliance date would be 5


### 2035, yet significant reductions would occur 6


### prior to that time. These changes would save 7



### Ameren customer s nearly $4 billion when compared 8


### to the proposed EPA rule, and still achieve 9


### significant GHG reductions. 10



### Ameren also believes the rule will not 11


### properly credit coal plant retirements that are 12


### not replaced with new generation under a rate 13


### based compliance program. It is assumed that 14


### under a rate based program both the emissions of 15



### Co2 and the megawatt hours generated from the 16


### retired coal plants are removed from the emission 17


### rate calculation when determining compliance. 18


### This approach does not properly ref lect the 19


### emission reduction gained, because it produces 20


### only a minor reduction in the overall emission 21


### rate. In order to properly reflect the benefits 22

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### of coal plant retirements, these units should be 1


### treated as zero emitting units, whereby the 2



### associated megawatt hours are left in the 3


### denominator, similar to the way energy efficiency 4



### is treated I the rule. 5



### As noted Ameren believes the rule is 6


### legally flawed and will not withstand judicial 7


### review. First, EPA has not applied the rule to 8


### specific sources, bu t instead requires each state 9



### to meet a performance standard, developed by 10


### application of a BSER that is a combination of 11



### inside the fence line and outside the fence line 12


### activities. This is a radical departure from 13


### EPA's past practice in the commonly acc epted 14


### interpretation of the Clean Air Act. 15


### A related legal argument involves EPA's 16



### intrusion into matters which have been 17


### traditionally left solely to the states. 18


### Specifically EPA's proposal to define BSER as 19


### relying on a certain level of renewables in 20



### en ergy efficiency intrudes on a state 21


### jurisdiction, and if implemented would represent 22

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### a transformative expansion of its authority not 1



### approved by Congress. 2


### In addition, regulation under Section 3



### 111D cannot occur until new sources of a similar 4


### kind are regul ated under Section 111B. By 5


### establishing a BSER that includes nuclear, 6



### renewable energy, renewables, and energy 7


### efficiency which are not regulated under Section 8


### 111B, EPA's proposed rule violates the Clean Air 9



### Act. 10


### Finally, EPA is precluded from regulati ng 11



### the effected units under Section 111D because 12


### they are regulated under Section 112. In 13


### conclusion Ameren believes the proposed rule is 14


### legally and technically flawed, will result in 15


### significant cost increases to our customers and 16


### businesses, cause job losses, and damage the 17


### economy. We will be filing comments which will 18


### provide greater detail on all these issues and 19


### others, and we urge you to read them and give 20



### them due consideration. 21


### I thank you for the opportunity to speak 22

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### here today

. 1



### MR. NIEBLIN G: Thank you. We look 2


### forward to your written comments. 3


### MR. QUINN: Good evening. My name is Tom 4


### Quinn, T

- O

- M Q

- U

- I

- N

- N. And I am a resident of 5


### Washington, D.C. in here tonight as the proud 6



### parent of three and seven year old boys. I'm not 7


### spending the evening with them tonight because I 8


### believe it is more important to be here 9


### testifying in favor of the EPA's proposed Clean 10



### Power Plan. 11


### Signs of global warming are unmistakable 12


### and indisputable. Just yesterday National 13


### Geographic photographer, Paul Nickl en posted on 14


### Facebook that for the first time in 20 years of 15



### his summer visits, there is no sea ice in the 16


### waters around Spitsbergen Island which is 17



### situated between the Greenland Sea and Arctic 18


### Ocean. And that it is possible within the next 19



### few years the Arctic Ocean could be completely 20


### free of sea ice during the summer months. And 21


### last month NOAA issued a report detailing 22

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### expected increases in flooding in 45 U.S. cities 1


### as a result of rising sea levels. 2


### But here at home summers are getting 3



### hotter, wint ers milder, and hurricanes large 4


### enough to impact a northern inland city like 5


### Washington, D.C. with widespread power outages 6


### and significant property damage are becoming 7



### annual events. 8


### The United States is currently the 9


### greatest contributor to global warmi ng gases, and 10


### though some utter complaints about the fairness 11



### of the burden to lead on this issue, I consider 12


### it an opportunity for the United States to take 13


### the lead on this issue both morally and 14


### economically. 15



### Currently U.S. power plants account for 16



### 40 p ercent of our nation's total carbon 17


### pollution. And though as a nation we have made 18


### great strides in regulating many of the dangerous 19


### pollutants from our power plants, like mercury, 20


### lead, and arsenic, the United States must step up 21



### and also regulate carbon emissions from those 22

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### same plants. 1


### While many are lamenting the economic 2


### shifts and costs that such changes may 3


### necessitate, particularly as old inefficient coal 4


### fired power plants are either upgraded or taken 5



### off line to meet new carbon standards, these 6



### c hanges are necessary and overdue. 7


### Shifting to newer energy sources, 8


### particularly renewable sources like wind and 9



### solar, will lead to a new wave of construction of 10


### these means of harnessing alternative energy 11


### sources, which will by necessity be accompanied 12


### by a new workforce to build and manage that 13



### infrastructure. 14


### But there are two other important reasons 15


### for making this switch. Most importantly the new 16


### regulations will force all older power plants to 17


### either run cleaner or be shut down. According to 18



### a 201 2 report from the NAACP, older coal fired 19


### power plants are overwhelmingly located in and 20


### near poor communities of color. 21


### As a parent it breaks my heart that 22

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### through no fault of their own, less fortunate 1


### children are forced to grow up in communities 2



### with poor air quality and higher rates of asthma 3


### simply because we don't have the courage as a 4


### country to require that our electric be sourced 5



### from cleaner and lower carbon emitting power 6



### sources. 7


### But this is an important segue to perhaps 8


### the most important rea son why the EPA should 9



### embrace the Clean Power Plan, and that is because 10


### the United States has a responsibility to lead. 11



### Because we are the world's largest economy, 12



### because we are the world's largest polluter, and 13


### most importantly because if we don't lead then no 14


### one else will. And that is why I am disappointed 15


### that the proposed plan requires the least 16


### improvement from the most polluting states. 17


### It is great that the plan requires even 18


### states that have already made great strides in 19


### improving their power so urces and carbon 20


### emissions to improve further, but it is equally 21


### disheartening that states that have done the 22

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### least are asked to do the least in this proposal. 1


### While it may make political sense to 2


### expect the least from more conservative coal 3



### dependent st ates, it does not make policy or 4



### fiscal sense to hold them to a lower standard, 5


### and it means that this proposal will not go as 6


### far as it possibly could. And of course it also 7



### forces the residents of these same states to 8


### continue living with the local poll ution 9


### associated with dirtier and older power sources. 10



### For the above reasons I strongly 11


### encourage you to not only implement the plan as 12



### proposed, but to extend the same standards to all 13



### states because all of our citizens deserve 14


### cleaner air and the opportu nity to contribute to 15


### a better world. Thank you again for your time. 16


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next we'd like 17


### to invite up Lukas Ross and Marissa Knodel. 18


### MR. ROSS: Thank you. My name is Lucas 19


### Ross. I work on energy policy for an 20


### organization called Friends of the Earth. 21


### Clearly this is a very wide ranging rule. 22

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### In many ways it is a step forward, in other ways 1


### it isn't a step at all, and in others it is a 2



### step back. 3


### Natural gas is a case in point. If you 4


### had to pick the single biggest winner of t his 5


### rule, there is no question it would be natural 6


### gas. By 2030 the role of gas in our energy mix 7


### is expected to rise from 27 percent to 32 8


### percent. According to one analysis that was 9


### released just last week, the rule is going to 10


### increase natural gas con sumption by 40 percent 11



### between 2020 and 2030. 12



### This should concern us for a number of 13


### reasons. The rule does not appropriately or 14


### accurately measure fugitive methane emissions, 15


### which when factored into a lifecycle analysis of 16


### gas, may make it even dirtier than coal. Because 17


### it is underestimating the levels of methane, it 18


### overestimates the possible savings from gas. 19


### More reliance on natural gas means more 20


### fracking, which means more contamination of our 21


### air and our water, more predatory leasing 22

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### practices, an d more corporate money spilling into 1


### our local, state, and federal elections to help 2


### purchase favorable regulations. 3


### But the most dangerous thing about this 4


### rule isn't just that it encourages more gas, it 5


### is that it encourages more gas infrastructure. 6



### It is a signal from the Federal Government that 7


### the private sector is clear to invest billions in 8


### every segment of the natural gas supply chain. 9


### This means more pipelines, more compressor 10


### stations, more processing facilities, and 11


### obviously more gas fired pow er plants. 12


### Once money has been sunk into these 13


### projects it is exceedingly unlikely that 14


### investors will abandon them without recovering 15


### their costs, a process that could easily take 16


### decades, prolonging our fossil fuel addiction by 17


### another generation. 18



### Wor st of all, it prolongs this addiction 19



### at a time when alternatives are more reliable and 20


### affordable than ever. Citi Bank, hardly known 21


### for its progressive convictions, recently 22

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### declared that we are entering the age of 1


### renewables, as wind and solar emerge a s price 2


### competitive alternatives for period of peak 3



### demand. 4


### And although we can always promise that 5


### the sun and the wind will be free, you cannot 6


### guarantee that natural gas is even going to be 7


### cheap. It is an incredibly volatile commodity 8



### used for a varie ty of competing purposes, from 9


### electricity and heating, to chemical 10


### manufacturing, and even transportation. Every 11


### one of these sources of demand is a potential 12


### source of electricity price volatility that could 13


### be passed along to consumers as our grid beco mes 14



### more dependent on gas. 15



### So when it comes to the future of this 16


### rule I urge the EPA to not tie the future of our 17


### economy to a dirty and unreliable fuel, and 18


### instead keep the path clear for renewable energy 19


### and energy efficiency. Thank you. 20



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 21


### MS. KNODEL: Good evening. My name is 22

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### Marissa Knodel, and I recently moved to 1


### Washington, D.C. to join the organization, 2


### Friends of the Earth to campaign for

-- 3



### MR. NIEBLING: Would you please spell 4



### that? Would you please spell that for our court 5



### reporter? 6



### MS. KNODEL: Yes. Absolutely. 7



### MR. NIEBLING: Because it's not obvious. 8



### MS. KNODEL: First name is M

- A

- R

- I

- S

- S

- A, 9



### last name Knodel, it's K

- N

- O

- D

- E

- L. 10



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 11



### MS. KNODEL: You're welcome. I recently 12


### joined Friends of the Earth to campaign for laws 13


### and policies that mitigate the adverse impacts of 14


### climate change. 15



### I'm here today to express support for the 16



### Clean Power Plan, which is laudable in that it 17


### purposes limits to carbon emissions from the 18


### dirtiest most polluting sources of energy. I am 19


### concerned about the impacts of climate change on 20


### our nation for a number of reasons, but today I 21


### want to share with you a life changing experience 22

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### I had in October 2010 that truly puts a human 1


### face on climate change and highlights the 2


### importance of taking immediate action to mitigate 3


### it through the Clean Power Plan, but also the 4


### need to strengthen the plan in order to avoid the 5


### worst impacts of climate change. 6


### In October 2010 I received funding to 7


### research the ways in which native communities in 8


### Alaska are adapting to a change in climate and 9


### whether those methods are perceived as disastrous 10


### for the community or opportunities to build 11



### resilience. 12


### The community I spent the most time in is 13


### called Kivalina, and it's located on an eight 14



### mile barrier island in the Chukchi Sea, 80 miles 15



### above the Arctic Circle . Due to warmer sea 16


### temperatures, sea ice formation is unpredictable. 17


### No longer is the ice thick or extensive enough to 18


### support whale hunting in the spring, a core part 19



### of the Inuit subsistence lifestyle. 20



### In addition the sea does not freeze until 21


### later in the winter, leaving the community 22

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### vulnerable to flooding and erosion during the 1



### intense October storm season. In fact the 2



### residents of Kivalina have earned the notorious 3



### distincti on of being America's first climate 4


### refugees as the Army Corps of Engineers 5



### determined the island will be uninhabitable 6


### within the next several years. 7


### Community displacement and permanent 8


### relocation are not adaptations confined to remote 9


### regions of the Arc tic. I was living in Vermont 10


### when Tropical Storm Irene destroyed the homes of 11


### friends and neighbors, forcing them to not just 12


### relocate, but for many farmers, restart their 13



### livelihoods. 14


### A little over a year later I was in 15


### Connecticut when Super Storm San dy buffeted the 16


### coast, leaving me and thousands without power and 17



### hundreds of others without shelter and basic 18



### amenities. 19



### As the recent National Climate Assessment 20



### concluded, these types of extreme weather events 21



### will become the norm in a warming world. Stories 22

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### of displacement and permanent relocation, 1


### especially among communities that are poor, 2


### vulnerable, and least able to adapt will increase 3


### with them. Only by taking immediate action to 4


### stop the production of greenhouse gas emissions 5



### can we help to m itigate these negative impacts in 6



### the future. 7



### The emissions reductions and the Clean 8


### Power Plan are an important step in the right 9


### direction, but not nearly stringent or fast 10



### enough . The people of Kivalina and many other 11



### vulnerable communities do not have until 2030 to 12


### avoid the worst impacts of climate change, and 13



### our nation cannot afford from an environmental, 14


### economic, human rights, or justice standpoint, to 15


### wait any longer. 16


### I appreciate all of you taking the time 17


### to listen to my comments this evening. Again, I 18


### support the Obama Administration and the EPA in 19



### their efforts to reduce carbon emissions from 20


### existing power plants, but cannot emphasize 21


### enough the urgency of our situation if those 22

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### reduction targets are not increased with the goal 1



### year of 2020 instead of 2030. Thank you very 2



### much. 3


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. Next we'd like 4


### to welcome up Kate DeAngelis and Luisa Abbott

5



### Galvao. 6



### MS. DEANGELIS: Thank you for the 7


### opportunity to comment on the EPA's Clean Power 8


### Plan. My name is Kate DeAngelis, and I represent 9



### Friends of Earth, U.S. 10



### President Obama's proposed limits on 11


### carbon pollution represent the most significant 12


### step any American president has taken to limit 13


### carbon pollution. It is important to address 14


### emissions from the electric power sector b ecause 15


### it contributes almost 40 percent of the country's 16


### emissions. Despite this, the rule is not 17


### stringent enough to force the emission reductions 18


### necessary to avoid the worst impacts of global 19


### climate disruption. 20


### I would like to encourage EPA to make th e 21


### following changes to strengthen the rule. 22

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### First, the reduction targets for each 1


### state are woefully insufficient and should be 2


### increased. These targets range from far too 3


### lenient to reductions that would have taken place 4



### without the rule. The state ta rgets add up to a 5


### national goal that will not avert the worst 6


### impacts of climate change. Substantial 7


### reductions should be required by 2020, and even 8


### greater reductions in the future. 9


### Greenhouse gases remain in the atmosphere 10



### for decades after they are rel eased, so they have 11


### a strong cumulative effect. Immediate reductions 12


### are more important than future reductions. 13


### Waiting 15 years is an unacceptable delay. 14


### In addition the base year should be 15


### changed from 2005 to 1990, because having 2005 as 16



### a baseline takes credit for reductions that have 17



### already occurred. 18


### Second, increased reliance on natural gas 19


### will not reduce our emissions, but will only 20


### continue our dependence on dirty fossil fuels. 21


### The climate impacts of natural gas remain unclear 22

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### and could be as bad as coal. This is because the 1


### extraction, processing, and transportation of 2



### natural gas release large amounts of methane, 3


### which is 86 times more potent than carbon 4


### dioxide. The leakage of methane could be 100 to 5


### 1,000 times higher than what the EPA e stimates, 6


### making the climate impacts much worse than 7



### currently calculated. 8


### Additional natural gas would also require 9


### increased fracking. High levels of toxins have 10


### been in the air near fracking wells. These 11


### toxins cause such health impacts such as 12



### headac hes and nausea. Fracking also contaminates 13


### drinking water with billions of gallons of toxic 14


### waste each year, and could potentially result in 15


### an increase in earthquakes. 16


### Third, a massive shift away from fossil 17


### fuels to renewable energy is necessary to avoi d 18


### the worst impacts of climate change. More 19


### ambitious renewable energy targets are 20


### achievable. The rule's targets are much lower 21


### than what is possible. The majority of states 22

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### have mandatory or voluntary renewable energy 1


### portfolio standards, many of whic h require more 2


### renewable energy than EPA predicts. 3


### For example, Missouri's existing clean 4


### energy policies have them on track to meet the 5



### EPA's target by 2021. Moreover, many states have 6


### huge renewable energy potential that could meet 7



### their entire electr icity needs. All states 8


### should be required to greatly increase their 9


### reliance on clean renewable energy such as wind 10



### and solar. 11



### Those states that have been more 12


### ambitious should be forced to go further, and 13



### coal dependent states should be forced to make 14



### substantial shifts from coal to clean renewable 15



### energy. 16


### Finally, the EPA should allow states to 17


### implement a carbon tax as a means to comply with 18



### the power plant rule. A carbon tax allows states 19


### to efficiently reduce their emissions while 20


### raising additio nal revenue. EPA should clarify 21


### that states are allowed to implement a carbon tax 22

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### as a compliance mechanism. EPA has given a 1


### strong signal to states that meeting their 2


### targets with cap and trade will be acceptable, 3


### but barely mentions a carbon tax. The rule 4


### should explicitly allow a sufficiently robust 5



### carbon tax and then discuss how such a tax would 6


### be acceptable, including analysis on the price 7



### that would need to be set to result in the 8


### required emission reductions, and how the carbon 9



### tax could be admi nistered. 10


### Thank you for taking the time to listen 11



### to my comments. I support the EPA's efforts to 12


### address carbon pollution from existing power 13



### plants, but encourage the EPA to strengthen the 14


### targets so the rule will result in a reduction 15


### sufficient to pr event catastrophic climate 16



### change. Thank you. 17



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 18



### MS. ABBOTT

- GALVAO: My name is Luisa 19


### Galvao, I represent Friend of the Earth. 20


### In 1961 President John F. Kennedy gave a 21


### speech to Congress, announcing his goal of 22

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### putting a man on the moon. Eight years later, it 1



### was done. The EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan 2


### gives states two to three years to submit 3


### emission reduction plans, and 15 years to 4


### implement them. Fifteen years. 5


### Fifteen more years of pollution is not 6


### something our climate can afford. This is not 7


### about the environment versus the economy, but 8


### that is exactly what rich industry folk want 9


### everyone to think. They want to divide and 10


### conquer the American public. 11


### Every air breathing and water drinking 12


### person in this room is an e nvironmentalist. No 13


### one should have to choose between having a job to 14


### feed their family and clean air so that their 15


### children can play outside without getting asthma 16


### or cancer. So we should all be asking ourselves 17


### while we continue to be presented with fa lse 18



### choices. 19


### These power plant rules, while a step in 20


### the right direction, are deplorably weak. This 21


### Administration is promoting false solutions like 22

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### clean coal, nuclear, and not so natural gas, when 1


### the right solutions like wind and solar are 2


### literally staring us in the face. 3


### Our country's addiction to fossil fuels 4



### is more than an environmental issue. It's a 5


### worker's issue, a public health issue, a 6


### democracy issue, and a civil rights issue. And 7


### if fossil fuels are in fact so problematic, what 8



### exactl y is stopping America from having a more 9


### ambitious energy plan? 10


### How come we can put a man on the moon in 11


### eight years, but we can't start shifting to clean 12


### energy like solar and wind by quarter century? 13


### How is it that in this rich country some of us 14



### are to ld that our only choices between polluting 15


### jobs and no jobs, that we must choose between 16



### dangerous sources of energy and affordable energy 17



### bills at the end of the month; that we must 18


### choose between using our land to grow food on and 19


### using our land to grow fuel. That we have to 20


### choose between energy security and climate 21


### security. 22

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### I'll tell you why in two words, industry 1


### profits. In this great country of opportunity 2



### and innovation, it's a shame that our leaders are 3


### failing to create the kind of jobs that Am ericans 4


### are entitled to, and to invest in energy sources 5



### that are clean and renewable and affordable, and 6


### that our country needs to harness in order to 7


### remain competitive in the global market. 8


### I support regulating greenhouse gas 9


### emissions from power plants , but we need to make 10


### sure that these rules are significantly improved. 11



### Thank you. 12


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you, Luisa. Next up 13



### we have Rebecca Blood and Rachel Goodermote. 14


### MS. BLOOD: Good evening. My name is 15


### Rebecca Blood, B as in Becky, L

- O

- O

- D. I'm h ere 16


### to speak on behalf of the National Hydropower 17



### Association

. 18


### National Hydropower Association, NHA, is 19


### a nonprofit associate dedicated to representing 20


### the interests of the United States hydropower 21


### industry. We include all technologies, 22

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### conventional, pu mp storage, new marine, and 1


### hydrokinetic technologies, and our membership is 2



### vast. 3



### We're here to talk about America's 4


### leading renewable electricity resource. 5



### Hydropower provides approximately seven percent 6


### of our nation's total electricity supply, or 7



### 100, 000 megawatts of installed capacity. And the 8


### majority of America's total renewable 9


### electricity. 10


### Hydropower can double its contribution 11


### towards a clean energy economy, helping to avoid 12



### millions of additional tons of carbon emissions, 13



### serve as a cost effec tive compliance option, 14


### create hundreds of thousands of new jobs, 15


### strengthen our national infrastructure, and 16


### increase the reliability and resiliency of our 17


### electric grid, all priorities for the current 18



### administration. 19


### We appreciate this opportunity to tal k to 20



### you today about the Clean Energy Plan. We see 21


### this as an opportunity for federal and state 22

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### regulatory decision makers to include hydropower 1


### as a viable compliance tool to reduce overall 2


### emissions. Therefore, NHA respectfully asks that 3



### EPA and states consider the following 4



### recommendations. 5


### One, that all existing and future 6


### hydropower resources and technologies, should be 7


### recognized as compliance options. Hydropower 8


### technologies include conventional, technologies 9


### including incremental hydropower, retr ofits, 10


### capacity additions, and efficiency upgrades, pump 11


### storage, marine and hydrokinetics, conduits, and 12



### new development. 13



### Our second recommendation is that EPA's 14


### guidance to states should recognize existing 15


### programs and activities, and ensure the use of 16



### h ydropower toward meeting emission reduction 17



### goals. 18



### And number three, EPA should afford 19


### states maximum flexibility in designing their 20


### state implementation plans in this proceeding. 21


### We've reviewed the existing draft 22

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### guidance, and we're evaluating addition al 1


### impacts. We want to emphasize that what we've 2



### seen so far is that we are concerned whether the 3


### rule is actually recognizing and taking into 4


### account all the clean air benefits of hydropower 5


### and how it provides as well as providing the 6



### necessary market s ignals in support of new hydro 7



### development. 8


### So we are analyzing these issues in the 9


### rule, and we anticipate that we will file 10


### comments on the treatment of hydropower in this 11



### debate, and we want to determine a chance for 12


### states to look at us as a complian ce option, and 13


### how it will be used by each state and by each 14


### region throughout this country. 15


### So thank you for this opportunity. We're 16


### very grateful for this time to bring these issues 17


### before your attention. 18



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 19



### MS. GOODERMOTE: H i. Good evening. My 20


### name is Rachel Goodermote and I'm here today to 21



### express my support for a strong EPA rule limiting 22

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### carbon pollution from existing power plants, both 1


### as a public health professional

-- yes sir? 2



### MR. NIEBLING: Please spell your last 3



### name for the reporter. 4



### MS. GOODERMOTE: Oh yes, no problem. 5



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 6



### MS. GOODERMOTE: Sorry. It's Goodermote, 7



### G

- O

- O

- D

- E

- R

- M

- O

- T

- E. 8



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. 9



### MS. GOODERMOTE: No problem. It's 10 10



### minutes. 11



### Sorry. So I'm here as both a publ ic 12


### health professional and as well as personally I 13



### feel strongly about the new EPA rule. 14


### I received my masters from Johns Hopkins 15


### University, Bloomberg School of Public Health, 16


### and I worked extensively on

-- firsthand on 17



### disastrous spawns and other issue s directly 18


### related to the effects of climate change and 19


### public health. 20


### Currently I work with physicians with 21


### social responsibility on similar issues. 22

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### Reducing the amount of carbon pollution 1


### emitted by existing power plants is not game. In 2


### fact healthy air and environment strengthens 3


### economic and community stability, improves 4


### property values and encourages new business 5



### ventures. 6


### Additionally coal fired power plants cost 7


### the U.S. anywhere from $120 billion to $523 8


### billion annually, and have been associated with 9



### tens of thousands of premature deaths, hundreds 10


### of thousands of hospital visits, heart attacks, 11



### as well as asthma attacks. 12



### Other pollutants released by these power 13


### plants, such as fine particulate air pollution 14


### are positively believed associated with both 15


### cardiovascular and lung cancer as well in 16


### addition to other chronic respiratory illnesses. 17


### If not for air public and economic health 18


### it is extremely important for the United States 19


### to take the strong stance on carbon pollution as 20



### a role model for t he global community. While 21


### working disaster preparedness in Indonesia I saw 22

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### firsthand how many of the environmental engineers 1


### and policy makers in that country look to the 2


### U.S., and actually specifically the U.S. EPA for 3


### guidance on best practices. 4



### Duri ng my work abroad several people 5


### asked how U.S. was doing with carbon pollution 6


### and the effects of climate change and disaster 7


### response. Especially following Hurricane Sandy, 8


### I go this question a lot. Whether in New Jersey 9


### or West Java, it's extremely di fficult to explain 10


### to someone who has just lost their home that 11


### disasters like the one they just experienced are 12


### more likely to happen frequently and stronger 13


### with climate change, and the U.S. has made no 14


### changes as of yet, to the way that they limit 15



### carbo n pollution from our largest source. 16


### As leaders for the global community, if 17


### we do not move forward with these changes no one 18



### will, and no one will win. 19


### On a more personal note I grew up in the 20



### mountains of Maine, Vermont, and Colorado, and 21



### have a strong connection to that outdoor winter 22

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### sports community which in some respects seems a 1


### little trivial. However, the outdoor industry 2


### and specifically the snow sports industry, 3


### including skiing, snowboarding, and other 4


### activities, contributes an estimated $67 billion 5


### annually to the U.S. economy. Thus it supports 6


### over 600,000 jobs in countless communities. 7



### In the last three decades the rate of 8


### winter warming has accelerated dramatically in 9



### the northern U.S. where communities have started 10


### to see negative conseq uences of climate change 11



### firsthand. When there is no snow, recreation 12


### centers have to close and businesses stop hiring. 13



### Those who move do, and shops and restaurants 14



### close, mountain conditions worsen, towns look 15


### less appealing to tourist

. 16



### I've seen small towns from Maine to 17


### Colorado, usually filled with local pride, 18


### struggling to get by under uncertain conditions. 19


### I want to be clear that climate change is 20


### no longer a global issue for these communities. 21


### It is a very real, local, and serious issue. 22

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### Final ly, I want to emphasize that it's 1


### still possible to make improvements. Studies 2


### have shown that reduced particulate pollution and 3



### co

- pollutant Co2, is associated with reduced 4


### mortality risk. This means that not only do we 5


### have the opportunity to create im provements in 6


### the health of future generations, but we also 7


### reduce carbon and fine particulate pollution that 8


### will create measurable impact on today's 9



### communities. 10


### By setting a national rule to reduce 11


### carbon pollution from established power plants by 12



### 30 pe rcent in the year 2030, the proposed power 13


### plan is a very accomplishable goal developed by 14



### the EPA and can act as a model for other nations. 15


### It is an important first step to moving towards a 16


### better public health, safety, and better future 17



### economic stabili ty against the negative effects 18


### of climate change. Thank you. 19



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you both. Next up 20


### we would like to invite Emma McGonigle and Matt 21



### Carr. 22

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### MS. MCGONIGLE: Are we ready? Okay. 1


### I'm Emma McGonigle. As a graduate 2



### student I studied internat ional development and 3



### I've learned a lot

-- this is my son. I thought 4


### I could showcase him but he might not last, so. 5


### MR. NIEBLING: All right. 6



### MS. MCGONIGLE: I've learned a lot about 7


### the negative effects of climate change on a 8


### global scale, which has not only opened my eyes 9


### to what people are experiencing in the four 10



### corners of the world, but I've also had the 11


### chance to develop a deeper understanding of how 12


### climate change is affecting our country. 13


### As a West Virginian I grew up in a state 14


### exploited for its rich coal reserves, where the 15


### government imposed loose regulations for profit 16


### in exchange for the safety of the people. Coal 17


### is one of the major fossil fuels burned in power 18



### plants , which account for 40 percent of carbon 19


### pollution in the U.S. 20



### As a mo ther, I have struggled with the 21


### thought of leaving my son the legacy of a 22

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### volatile world due to climate change. This has 1


### caused me great grief and has even made me feel 2


### existentially depressed. But I realize there's 3


### still a fight and my son has given me the 4



### strength and purpose to stand before you all 5



### today. 6


### More directly I would like to ensure that 7



### he, Nicco, has clean air to breath. 8



### The consensus is that the most effective 9


### means of mitigating climate change is to reduce 10



### carbon emissions. As most of u s know carbon 11


### pollution increases climate disruption, causing 12


### more frequent and severe weather that jeopardizes 13


### communities, incurring costs to the federal 14



### government and the economy, as well as 15


### threatening public health. 16


### Reducing carbon emissions is the m ost 17


### urgent agenda item for both the health of our 18


### citizens, but also for the safety of planet 19



### Earth. 20


### Cutting carbon pollution from power 21


### plants will also enable innovation of clean 22

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### energy sources, which will grow the economy and 1


### create jobs. I read a quot e recently by Robert 2



### Rubin

-- 3


### (Child crying) 4


### By Robert Rubin, the co

- chair of the 5


### Council on Foreign Relations and the former U.S. 6


### Treasury secretary. He said, "We do not face a 7


### choice between protecting our environment or 8


### protecting our economy

-- 9



### (Chil d crying.) 10



### Excuse me. I'm sorry. 11


### We face a choice between protecting our 12


### economy by protecting our environment, or 13


### allowing environmental havoc to create economic 14


### profit." 15


### I wholeheartedly agree with this 16



### statement. I also believe that the Clean Power 17


### Plan is a huge step in the right direction to 18


### supporting the emerging green economy. 19



### The carbon rules are part of Obama's 20



### Climate Action Plan. This could be the most 21


### impactful climate policy in the nation to date. 22

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### The Clean Power Plan also recognizes that 1


### each state is different and gives flexibility to 2


### adapt the policy to their unique conditions and 3


### economic environment. The plan will 4


### simultaneously reduce carbon emissions and help 5



### create cleaner air for our children to breathe. 6



### I attend Gallaudete University and work 7


### with the deaf community. My work involves 8


### inclusion of people with disabilities and 9


### impoverished communities and development and 10


### economic initiatives. I'm standing here today to 11


### represent those people who do not have a voice, 12



### and als o who don't have the opportunity to come 13


### here to speak for the council. 14


### I represent rural America, places like 15


### West Virginia, where the health of the people is 16


### constantly compromised by power plant pollution. 17



### I come here most of all to represent my son an d 18


### all the children who will be impacted in years to 19


### come by the possibility of passing the Clean 20



### Power Plan. Thank you. 21


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. I think we 22

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### can, as an act of compassion, release you early. 1



### MS. MCGONIGLE: Excuse me? 2



### MR. NIEBLING: I th ink we can, as an act 3


### of compassion for your son, release you early and 4



### -- 5



### MS. MCGONIGLE: Thank you so much. 6



### MR. NIEBLING:

-- Mr. Carr will get the 7



### table to himself. 8


### MS. MCGONIGLE: Sorry for the disruption. 9


### Do you need a copy of this, or

-- 10



### MR. NIEBLI NG: If you'd leave a copy with 11


### the registration table. 12



### MS. MCGONIGLE: Perfect. Thank you. 13


### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you. The table is 14



### all yours. Thank you. 15



### MR. CARR: Matt Carr, Executive Director 16


### of the Algae Biomass Organization. M

- A

- T

- T C

- A

17



### R

- R. 18



### On behalf of the Algae Biomass 19


### Organization I greatly appreciate the opportunity 20


### to comment on EPA's proposed carbon pollution 21


### emission guidelines for existing sources. 22

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### ABO is the trade association for the 1


### algae industry, and we represent leading 2



### developer s of renewable, sustainable products 3


### from algae. Our membership includes producer 4


### companies, research institutions, utilities, 5



### airlines, and other end

- users , and a range of 6


### other partners throughout the algae supply chain. 7


### ABO appreciates and supports EPA 's 8



### efforts to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide 9


### from power plants and other industrial sources. 10


### We think, you know, appropriate regulation can 11


### help mitigate the rise in atmospheric Co2 12


### concentration, but it also represents tremendous 13


### opportunity to foste r the growth of technologies 14


### that utilize Co2 as an input for renewable 15


### sustainable products. And this is particularly 16



### true for Algae. 17


### ABO members are developing a wide range 18



### of algae technology platforms to emergency Co2 to 19



### renewable fuels, chemicals, fertilizer, plastics, 20


### feed ingredients, and other products. 21


### Algae thrive on concentrated sources of 22

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### Co2, and to provide the optimal environment for 1



### growth today's algae developers are actually 2


### purchasing commercial Co2 at great expense as a 3



### feed stock. AB O members would welcome the 4


### opportunity to participate in reducing emissions 5


### of Co2 from the power sector by partnering with 6


### utilities to utilize captured carbon as a feed 7


### stock, transforming Co2 from an expensive waste 8


### disposal issue and to a resource tha t will 9


### benefit the industry, environment, and rate 10



### payers. 11



### ABO members are in fact in active 12


### negotiations with utilities to do just that. 13



### ABO has serious concerns, however, that 14


### the proposal as written could have a profound 15


### chilling effect on the develop ment of algae and 16


### other Co2 utilization technologies. The proposed 17


### rule offers states flexibility in developing 18


### compliance plans, but by making no mention of 19



### carbon capture and utilization while 20


### affirmatively recognizing other compliance 21


### options, includin g carbon capture and 22

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### sequestration or storage, the proposed rule risks 1


### sending a signal to states and investors that 2


### carbon utilization is not a preferred mitigation 3


### strategy. And I think this would be a profound 4


### missed opportunity. 5


### Algae CCU is adequatel y demonstrated, 6


### technically feasible, it can be implemented at a 7


### reasonable cost and provide meaningful emissions 8


### reductions, while serving to promote further 9



### development and deployment of the technology. 10


### Since 2010 the Department of Energy has 11



### helped adva nce algae Co2 utilization by funding a 12


### dozen projects. CCU is being demonstrated in at 13



### least six states and ABO members are in 14


### partnerships in China and several other nations 15



### to deploy algae CCU technology. 16


### By creating a market for captured carbon, 17



### carb on utilization can mitigate, offset, or even 18


### negate the cost of carbon capture and provide a 19



### Co2 reduction mechanism that minimizes the cost 20



### to rate payers. Algae producers need Co2 and 21


### they will pay power producers to get it. 22

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### On the reduction side, even when 1


### subsequently combusted as a transportation fuel, 2


### Co2 utilization produces meaningful emissions 3


### reductions by displacing additional fossil fuel 4


### combustion. Peer reviewed life cycle analysis of 5


### the two largest commercial algae demonstration 6


### production facilities show reductions of 68 and 7


### 80 percent, respectively, relative to the fossil 8



### incumbent , and every barrel of algae biofill 9



### produced through carbon capture replaces a barrel 10


### of petroleum that would otherwise be extracted 11



### and combusted. 12



### And through t his substitution Co2 remains 13


### permanently stored in the ground as petroleum. 14



### So we understand that the proposed rule 15


### does not mandate any single method for meeting 16


### the Co2 reduction targets, but it does include a 17



### discussion of CCS as a method that states c an use 18


### to meet its target, and the preamble specifically 19


### asks for public comment on CCS, but makes no 20



### mention of utilization. 21



### So we're concerned and believe that EPA 22

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### is missing an important opportunity by failing to 1


### explicitly recognize or solicit commen ts on Co2 2



### utilization as a method that the states can use 3


### to meet their targets. 4


### We encourage the EPA to include language 5


### in the final rule indicating that carbon 6


### utilization would be an acceptable component in 7


### the state emissions reduction plans. We thin k 8


### such an affirmative recognition would provide 9


### states and sources of private capital with the 10


### confidence to invest in this highly promising Co2 11


### solution while helping to create a market for Co2 12


### that reduces the cost of compliance. 13



### MR. NIEBLING: Thank you , Matt. We 14


### welcome comment, including technical comment on 15


### accounting for that. 16


### MR. CARR: Great. Will do. Thank you. 17



### MR. NIEBLING: With that, at the moment 18


### we do not have any speakers lined up to speak so 19


### the panel will take a temporary recess until such 20


### time as somebody would like to share their 21


### thoughts with us. 22

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### (Recess from 7:23 p.m. to 7:59 p.m.) 1



### MR. NIEBLING: It is now 8:00, and we 2


### have exhausted our list of speakers for the 3


### evening. So, we will reconvene at 9:00 a.m. 4


### tomorrow in the same plac e with a long list of 5



### speakers. Thank you all for your attendance 6


### today and your testimony, it's valuable to us in 7



### the development of the rule. 8



### With that, this session is closed. 9


### (Hearing concluded at 7:59 p.m.) 10

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